# Boot suggestions (paging Wiredsports..)



## Mystery2many (Aug 14, 2013)

I suggest the Salomon Synapse Wide in a 9 1/2 (275mm=9 1/2?). I have the Dialogue and wear a 10- 10 1/2 in street shoes and down sized to a 9 1/2 thanks to wired. First trying them on hurt my toes, now that they are molded to my feet they are absolutely perfect. It holds my foot so well that I don't have to tighten them very much and I get zero heel lift and all day comfort. I can't even explain how happy I am with them. I'm coming from two different Nike boots that were super comfy but just did not perform well and an entire list of other boots.

Also a custom foot bed if the new ones don't make your feet happy. I put some Remind insoles in mine.


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## pescadero (Feb 5, 2014)

Mystery2many said:


> I suggest the Salomon Synapse Wide in a 9 1/2. I have the Dialogue and wear a 10- 10 1/2 in street shoes and down sized to a 9 1/2 thanks to wired.



I worry that a wide boot will be a heel lift issue... my current boots are "normal" width and that means they are too tight in the forefoot, but they are also too loose in the heel.

Generally wide boots are all around wider - which means the forefoot will be better, but the heel lift will be worse.


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## Mystery2many (Aug 14, 2013)

Have you tried the new Salomons? I have a fairly narrow heel as well. The heel pocket is one of the tightest I have tried to this date. (Burton, K2, Nike, 32, DC, Forum) The construction of the Dialogue, Snyapse, F 4.0 all hold my small heel so tight that it is actually kind of a pain to get my foot out. Wired can help you more with specifics but I really think you should try one on in a wide and size down to a 9 1/2. It will push on your toe at first but it won't take long to be amazing.


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## Irahi (May 19, 2011)

Hi there. I have about the same problem you do with a forefoot that's wide relative to my heel (100mm/48mm.) I also find malamutes to be as close to a good fit as I can get out of the box.

Your most difficult problem to solve is going to be lateral heel stability, once you're stable side to side, the problem of vertical instability (heel lift) isn't as much of an issue, it's fighting both that's causing you fits. Unfortunately I haven't found any boots out of the box that solve the problem, but there are some tools you can use to mitigate it. Stable26 makes an interesting thing that puts some silicone J bars right on your heel, they'll buy you up to 12mm of reduced volume without the packing out problem that foam has.

Tognar also sells some very nice, dense boot fitting foam that you can either buy preshaped or cut to shape and glue to your liner to take up some more heel volume. That process requires a lot more trial and error than you might expect, so don't be afraid to move foam around to get it just right.


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## stickz (Feb 6, 2013)

I tried on a pair of salmons and remember them having literally zero heal lift, they were just to wide up front, and I didn't like the lacing system, so bought k2 T1s which have very very slight heel lift, but overall I like the boot more. From sounds of your foot you may want to try some Salomons.


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## pescadero (Feb 5, 2014)

Mystery2many said:


> Have you tried the new Salomons? I have a fairly narrow heel as well. The heel pocket is one of the tightest I have tried to this date. (Burton, K2, Nike, 32, DC, Forum) The construction of the Dialogue, Snyapse, F 4.0 all hold my small heel so tight that it is actually kind of a pain to get my foot out.



I haven't tried any new Salomons... I'm just guessing based off my old Malamutes. I'm not sure there is anywhere locally that carries them either...

My old Malamutes are so tight in the heel that they a take a significant amount of force to get my foot in/out, to the point of being painful - but I still get heel lift.



Mystery2many said:


> Wired can help you more with specifics but I really think you should try one on in a wide and size down to a 9 1/2. It will push on your toe at first but it won't take long to be amazing.


Heck - even my old 10.5 Malamutes have the liner touching the toe, so I'm sure their will be contact going to a 9.5.

My hope is that going to a fully heat moldable liner will help.


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## Mystery2many (Aug 14, 2013)

275mm = 27.5cm = 9.5 us shoe size. I implore you to try the Synapse Wide and get it heat molded!

There was an eye opening post by Wired that explained the difference between fit of walking shoes and snowboard boots, he explain the different mechanics and how the fit should be different. Changed my entire view. I haven't wore a 9 1/2 since middle school until this season. 1 day at abasin a little tough on the toe but great performance, 2 days at keystone and now they fit like a glove with no pain and no need to over tighten. I'm so thankful for that information.


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

Hi Pescadero,

I like to approach this in stages. 

First we aim to get the length right. That gives us the firm pressure into the compliant materials of the liner (both toe and heel) that we are looking for. This also lines up the structures of your foot with the structures of the boot (arch, etc). Your length is 275 mm (275 mondo). 

From there we do our best to match width from the available options. Your mondo foot width (115) corresponds to a size EE Branock. 

Frankly this puts you somewhere between Salomon's Wide and Burton's Wide. 

Lets get a look at your fit on your current insert. Foot shape may help make this decision for us.

STOKED!


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## pescadero (Feb 5, 2014)

Wiredsport said:


> Hi Pescadero,
> 
> I like to approach this in stages.
> 
> ...


I just re-measured and my foot is actually almost exactly 280mm long. Width was right at 115mm.



Wiredsport said:


> Lets get a look at your fit on your current insert. Foot shape may help make this decision for us.
> 
> STOKED!












The liner is labeled 28.5, but actually measure 28 - almost exactly the same as my foot.


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

pescadero said:


> I just re-measured and my foot is actually almost exactly 280mm long. Width was right at 115mm.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Hi Pescadero,

Thanks for posting those. For Clarity, I want to confirm the new measurements from your last post. I want to get this right for you.

Your actual foot length is 280. Is that correct? If so that converts to a US size 10 in snowboard boots.

You wrote above that the liner measures 280 as well. Did you mean the insert (that you are standing on in the photo) or the liner?


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## pescadero (Feb 5, 2014)

Wiredsport said:


> Hi Pescadero,
> 
> Thanks for posting those. For Clarity, I want to confirm the new measurements from your last post. I want to get this right for you.
> 
> ...


Actual footlength (as best I can measure it):

Right: 280mm x 115mm, 68mm heel
Left: 270mm x 115mm, 64mm heel










The insert that I was standing on also basically measures at 280mm (big toe has maybe 1mm overhang).

The insert is labeled 28.5, and the boot shell is labeled 28.5 (10.5 US).


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

pescadero said:


> Actual footlength (as best I can measure it):
> 
> Right: 280mm x 115mm, 68mm heel
> Left: 270mm x 115mm, 64mm heel
> ...


Got it!

Fist off, a 280 insert in a 285 boot is common. The insert length should always be smaller than the modopoint boot size. We typically see a full cm difference for performance fit boots and a bit less for boots as they get closer to "comfort fit".

Sooooo, right now you are wearing a boot that is a half size above your mondo size and it is somewhat of a relaxed fit at that.

Now...that is for your big foot...but...we have discovered that your smaller foot is a full shoe size smaller (it is 270 mondo or size 9). Your current boots are 1.5 sizes too large for that foot.

Quite a mess, right?

Custom boot fitters have wet dreams that they refer to as Pescaderos.

What to do? There is really no perfect way to address a full size of right/left foot discrepancy in a single boot size so compromises are required.

One option is to order mismatched sizes (9 and 10) in a wide model. 

Alternately you can order size 10 in a wide model with the understanding that it will be too long for your smaller foot.

I believe we can get your EE into a Salomon Dialogue Wide. We can use the Burton Ruler wide as a fallback.

Lets address your heel width issue if it arises. I think we are going to see a marked improvement there with the dialogue Wide once you are at your Mondo size and heat fit (especially if mismatched sizes are a possibility for you).


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## pescadero (Feb 5, 2014)

Wiredsport said:


> Now...that is for your big foot...but...we have discovered that your smaller foot is a full shoe size smaller (it is 270 mondo or size 9). Your current boots are 1.5 sizes too large for that foot.
> 
> Quite a mess, right?


At least the boot situation is a lot better than when I started snowboarding in 1986... I don't miss Sorels.






Wiredsport said:


> Alternately you can order size 10 in a wide model with the understanding that it will be too long for your smaller foot.
> 
> I believe we can get your EE into a Salomon Dialogue Wide. We can use the Burton Ruler wide as a fallback.
> 
> Lets address your heel width issue if it arises. I think we are going to see a marked improvement there with the dialogue Wide once you are at your Mondo size and heat fit (especially if mismatched sizes are a possibility for you).


How much void filling/compressing (in terms of mondo size) can you expect from heat fitting?

I ask for two reasons - 

1) Possibility of going with the in-between size boot (9.5/27.5)
2) Possibility of squeezing the width into a non-wide boot, because I really desperately don't want a soft boot and the only wide boots aren't stiff


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## Mystery2many (Aug 14, 2013)

Wired is the man, glad he showed up to help. 

Also.

Salomon Synapse Wide Snowboard Boots 2016 | evo


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## pescadero (Feb 5, 2014)

Mystery2many said:


> Salomon Synapse Wide Snowboard Boots 2016 | evo


Oooh...

That looks much better. Still not quite as stiff as the Malamutes, but real close.


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## Mystery2many (Aug 14, 2013)

You'd be surprised. I ride the Dialogue and it is very responsive, the Snyapse is noticably stiffer. 

Just a random thought, but you probably wanted a really stiff boot due to your previous experience with heel lift and fit. The extra stiffness to overcompensate? Just a thought...


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

pescadero said:


> Oooh...
> 
> That looks much better. Still not quite as stiff as the Malamutes, but real close.


Good questions. 

I believe you will find that you are much less concerned with boot stiffness once we have you in your correct mondo size. Way more than any boot specifics, a snug fit is king. In many of these threads we have riders buying performance boots for ~$300 that are 2, 3, and 4 sizes too large. In large part they are paying for technology that cannot help them as sized and are doing so to make up for grossly incorrect fits. In sincerity they would get better performance from an entry level boot that was snug.

I don't think 9.5 will work for you. Your bigger foot has very pronounced large toe. Consider you that is already going to project into the liner, even at your mondo size. If your foot had a more neutral shape, i would have suggested that you try that.


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## pescadero (Feb 5, 2014)

Mystery2many said:


> Just a random thought, but you probably wanted a really stiff boot due to your previous experience with heel lift and fit. The extra stiffness to overcompensate? Just a thought...





Wiredsport said:


> Good questions.
> 
> I believe you will find that you are much less concerned with boot stiffness once we have you in your correct mondo size. Way more than any boot specifics, a snug fit is king.


I think fit helps - but I have to say, I've never had a snowboard boot on my foot (owned or rentals) I ever thought was too stiff, and I've honestly wondered about hard boots for groomer days... 

So I suspect that even with a perfect fit, I'm going to want a stiff boot.



Wiredsport said:


> I don't think 9.5 will work for you. Your bigger foot has very pronounced large toe. Consider you that is already going to project into the liner, even at your mondo size. If your foot had a more neutral shape, i would have suggested that you try that.


Yeah, I definitely have an "Egyptian" foot shape as opposed to a "Greek" or "Roman" foot shape (as would be used in ballet toe shoes).

So I'm probably looking at a Salomon Synapse in size 10. Will the heat molding mostly be able to make up for the small foot?


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## Mystery2many (Aug 14, 2013)

Me personally. I'd only heat mold the big foot boot and let the other break in naturally.


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

pescadero said:


> So I'm probably looking at a Salomon Synapse in size 10. Will the heat molding mostly be able to make up for the small foot?


Sadly, no. 

There is really no magic to make up for a full size. This would essentially be suggesting that a size 10 boot was adequate for a size 9 foot. It simply isn't. I hate to bring bad news but it is better to know.

Heat fitting works best when the mondo size for the foot is correct. The liner material can then be correctly redistributed. That will happen much less effectively on a boot that is too large. 

If it is in the budget I would highly consider the mismatched size option.


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## pescadero (Feb 5, 2014)

Yeah... buying two pair of boots to get one usable isn't going to happen.

The price on snowboard boots is already silly enough - with two pairs you're looking at $400-$500.

I can buy custom, hand made specifically to fit each foot, with custom foot bed/last, leather dress shoes for a significant bit less money.


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

pescadero said:


> Yeah... buying two pair of boots to get one usable isn't going to happen.
> 
> The price on snowboard boots is already silly enough - with two pairs you're looking at $400-$500.
> 
> I can buy custom, hand made specifically to fit each foot, with custom foot bed/last, leather dress shoes for a significant bit less money.


I understand, and i hate to bring bad news. It is important to note, however that even without an unusually shaped foot, a boot that is a full size too large will not hold a heel well (which will be the case for your smaller foot).


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## pescadero (Feb 5, 2014)

Wiredsport said:


> I understand, and i hate to bring bad news. It is important to note, however that even without an unusually shaped foot, a boot that is a full size too large will not hold a heel well (which will be the case for your smaller foot).


It certainly isn't optimal, but I have to think a heat molded size 10 would hold my small foot heel better than my current non-heat molded size 10.5

Anyone know someplace that will sell individual boots?

Outside of buying two pairs of boots, is going with a size 10 my best option?


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

pescadero said:


> It certainly isn't optimal, but I have to think a heat molded size 10 would hold my small foot heel better than my current non-heat molded size 10.5
> 
> Anyone know someplace that will sell individual boots?
> 
> Outside of buying two pairs of boots, is going with a size 10 my best option?


Hi, I will outline your imperfect options set as I see them.

Purchase two boots that are correct your Mondo foot sizes. Expensive/Best Fit.

Purchase Mondo 280 Wide (10). Best Fit on 1 Boot/Poor fit on the other.

Purchase size Mondo 275 Wide (9.5). Substandard fit on Both boots.

Depending on the nature of your heel issue that may still need to be addressed regardless of the option you go with.


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## vandy16 (Dec 16, 2011)

if you don't mind going with a 2015 boot, evo also has the '15 version of the synapse wide in size 10, for $205


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## ju87 (Mar 9, 2011)

Hi Wiredsport,

I'd like to ask for a boot suggestion if you can... I currently have a pair of Nike ZF1 in 8.5 US (27 Mondo) which fit perfectly with excellent heel hold. Problem is, I've melted the tongue on the liner by putting it too close to the heater like an idiot. The tongie is a bit deformed now and I am concerned that it may give me problems by causing pressure points.

Do you have any recommendations for a similar fitting boot? Out of the narrower fitting brands, I've tried K2 which is too much volume still. I'm now looking at the Salomon Dialogue. Do you have any thoughts or recommendations?

Thanks !


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

Hi Ju,

I will be happy to have a look. Let's get started with your barefoot measurements (length and width) for each foot.

Stoked!

PS: Are your 8.5 boots labeled 27 Mondo?


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## ju87 (Mar 9, 2011)

Wiredsport said:


> Hi Ju,
> 
> I will be happy to have a look. Let's get started with your barefoot measurements (length and width) for each foot.
> 
> ...


Thanks, Wiredsport.

Yes, my Nike ZF1 are labelled as US 8.5 & 27.

For my left foot, the length is approximately 26.5cm and the width at the widest point (the "knuckle" at the outer edge of the foot) is approximately 10.5cm.

For my right foot, the length is approximately 26.5cm to 27cm and the width at the widest point (the "knuckle" at the outer edge of the foot) is approximately 10.5cm.

I made the measurements by tracing my foot on a piece of paper whilst sitting in a chair so my weight is not fully on my foot.

Additional info: i have collapsing arches and wear custom orthotics in my snowboard boots and ice skates. I have a pair of Burton Ruler as well but they are generally too wide in the toe, heel and have too much volume.

any advice you can give me would be greatly appreciated.


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

Intuiton sells liners with different volume. They cost about $200. Contact them with your issue and see if you can get 2 different liners for your size (ie one high volume for your smaller foot, one low vol for your bigger foot).

If they dont sell you the 2 different liners, get the ones opposite what your boot comes with to match the foot that doesnt fit the boot.

Yeah the liners arent cheap, but you can use them with pretty much any boot and transfer them when you buy new boots. So it beats buying 2 pairs of boots.

Link:
https://intuitionliners.com


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

Hi Bro,

Please don't trace your foot. That always _grows_ your foot and will give an incorrect measurement.

Please measure your foot using this method:

Kick your heel (barefoot please, no socks) back against a wall. Mark the floor exactly at the tip of your toe (the one that sticks out furthest - which toe this is will vary by rider). Measure from the mark on the floor to the wall. That is your foot length and is the only measurement that you will want to use. Measure in centimeters if possible, but if not, take inches and multiply by 2.54 (example: an 11.25 inch foot x 2.54 = 28.57 centimeters).


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## ju87 (Mar 9, 2011)

Wiredsport said:


> Hi Bro,
> 
> Please don't trace your foot. That always _grows_ your foot and will give an incorrect measurement.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the info.

Following your instructions, my left foot is 26.5cm and my right foot is just beyond 26.5cm. The toe that sticks out the furthest is my big toe, if that counts for anything.


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

ju87 said:


> Thanks for the info.
> 
> Following your instructions, my left foot is 26.5cm and my right foot is just beyond 26.5cm. The toe that sticks out the furthest is my big toe, if that counts for anything.


Got it. You are an 26.5 length (US 8.5 in snowboard boots) at an "E" width. I would look at the 2 Salomon Wide models (Dialogue and Synapse) in 26.5. 

STOKED!


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## ju87 (Mar 9, 2011)

Wiredsport said:


> Got it. You are an 26.5 length (US 8.5 in snowboard boots) at an "E" width. I would look at the 2 Salomon Wide models (Dialogue and Synapse) in 26.5.
> 
> STOKED!


Thanks, Wiredsport. I tried the Salomon Malamutes in 26.5 and they fit very well, similar to the fit I got from the Nike ZF1. The midfoot width around the arch area was a smidge tight but the toebox was still roomy.


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

ju87 said:


> Thanks, Wiredsport. I tried the Salomon Malamutes in 26.5 and they fit very well, similar to the fit I got from the Nike ZF1. The midfoot width around the arch area was a smidge tight but the toebox was still roomy.


Hi ju,

Stoked that we have you down to your mondo size.

You are an E width and the Malamute is a D. In many instances a rider will be able to fit into a boot that is one width size smaller than their foot (heat fit can help here) at there mondo size. The two Salomon wide models will give you that extra width that you are missing in the Malamutes.


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## ju87 (Mar 9, 2011)

Wiredsport said:


> Hi ju,
> 
> Stoked that we have you down to your mondo size.
> 
> You are an E width and the Malamute is a D. In many instances a rider will be able to fit into a boot that is one width size smaller than their foot (heat fit can help here) at there mondo size. The two Salomon wide models will give you that extra width that you are missing in the Malamutes.


With the wide models, would the heel pocket be much wider and/or would the fit be significantly wider or just a bit? I'm also concerned about the toe box being too roomy.

Unfortunately there is only one shop that sells Salomon where I live and they don't carry the wide models.

Thanks again


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

ju87 said:


> With the wide models, would the heel pocket be much wider and/or would the fit be significantly wider or just a bit? I'm also concerned about the toe box being too roomy.
> 
> Unfortunately there is only one shop that sells Salomon where I live and they don't carry the wide models.
> 
> Thanks again


All of the wide models that are available increase the heel less than the forefoot. One "letter" width size is about .5 cm wider at the widest point.


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