# Choosing b/w Cartels/Union SL's/ Ride Maestro



## DrEwTiMe (Dec 13, 2012)

Hi guys, I really need help choosing between these three bindings. I have read just about everything I can on both of them and just need some experienced non-sales person opinions. Been riding 15+ years all-mountain style with some park riding.

They are all pretty much the same price (270-300) and pretty much have the same technologies on each so its just a matter of which are the better bindings.

If anyone owns/knows a friend that owns any of these I would love to hear any pros/cons of these because I just can't seem to pull the trigger!!


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## scotty100 (Apr 3, 2012)

What kind of board are you sticking them on? Cartels are always viewed as a "safe" choice. From what I've read, the Unions are probably a little stiffer but I've no experience with them. All 3 are solid options I think.


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## DrEwTiMe (Dec 13, 2012)

They will be going on the 2013 ride DH2. I figured that about the Cartels since they are touted as the " most ridden by pro's" thats why I wanted the opinions of people who weren't making a commission off me lol.


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## Extremo (Nov 6, 2008)

The SL's are my favorite binding right now. They're light, ankle strap is extremely comfortable, toe strap is super responsive, assym highback is flexible and supportive, dampening is soft enough to absorb impact but not so thick to take away the feel of the board. I can't say enough good things about them. 

The last Cartel's I rode didn't have reflex but the straps were great. Flex was in the mid range. Highback was responsive. I actually liked them for park riding a lot. 

I haven't ridden the Maestro but I've ridden the Capo and Ride's metal baseplate are super stiff. I dont know how much the urethane highback softens it up.

Each binding has a different feel and flex pattern so really the best way to decide is to try them. But my top 2 are the SL's and the Cartel. I'd throw in the Raiden Phantom as well.


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## DrEwTiMe (Dec 13, 2012)

Extremo said:


> The SL's are my favorite binding right now. They're light, ankle strap is extremely comfortable, toe strap is super responsive, assym highback is flexible and supportive, dampening is soft enough to absorb impact but not so thick to take away the feel of the board. I can't say enough good things about them.


Would you say these would also work in the park? Cause I'm dabbling in the park a little more these days but not enough to consider buying a park only binding.


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## Rookie09 (Sep 5, 2012)

It's mostly personal preference when you get to high end bindings like these. I've used Ride Deltas before and personally, I don't like how metal bindings feel. Unions are pretty sweet although I haven't used the SLs. I've heard mostly good about the Cartels but it sounds like they tend to chew the back of your boots up quite a bit. I second the Raiden Phantoms. I haven't used the Phantoms in particular but I have the Raiden Zeros and am really high on them right now. I think the Phantoms would be a killer binding.


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## Extremo (Nov 6, 2008)

DrEwTiMe said:


> Would you say these would also work in the park? Cause I'm dabbling in the park a little more these days but not enough to consider buying a park only binding.


Yeah, the park is where I think the SL's excel. The baseplete flex is mid stiff, so its strong enough to stomp big landings, the assym highback allows good torsional flex and lateral movement, and the dampening isn't too soft so you can really feel the jibs under your feet. It's billed as an 'all-mountain freestyle' binding but to me it's got a perfect aggressve park flex. I'm surprised they're not in the line next year.


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## DrEwTiMe (Dec 13, 2012)

I actually tried the Maestro's but they were the mediums which didn't really fit my boots so well so i can't really give an objective view of them because that was really annoying to deal with. The wedgie footbeds did make it really comfortable to ride with the canting. Do the Union SL's have any sort of canting built in? Because I didn't ready anything like that in their description.




Rookie09 said:


> I've heard mostly good about the Cartels but it sounds like they tend to chew the back of your boots up quite a bit.


I was reading this as well so that is definitely a hit against getting those. Im not rolling in dough so anything that beats up my boots is gonna be a hard choice.



> I second the Raiden Phantoms. I haven't used the Phantoms in particular but I have the Raiden Zeros and am really high on them right now. I think the Phantoms would be a killer binding.


Your now the 3rd person to recommend these bindings to me. I talked to someone in person at a shop who said the same thing. I searched on the internet real fast and found the 2013's for 208 dollars which is well below the price of my other 3 options. Is there something I'm missing why such a great binding would be priced so low? I would obviously love to save the 50 or so dollars if they are really all that but I'm willing to splurge a little more if I'm really gonna get what i pay for.



Extremo said:


> Yeah, the park is where I think the SL's excel. The baseplete flex is mid stiff, so its strong enough to stomp big landings, the assym highback allows good torsional flex and lateral movement, and the dampening isn't too soft so you can really feel the jibs under your feet. It's billed as an 'all-mountain freestyle' binding but to me it's got a perfect aggressve park flex. I'm surprised they're not in the line next year.


They seem like a pretty badass binding from what your saying. I do a lot of hard charging stuff so need to have that all mountain versatility and super response for ducking in and out of trees which requires every second of response I can get. If your really saying these have the great response and feel yet excel in the the park they sound like exactly what I'm looking for in respect to that perfect all mountain binding. Are you more of a park rider or have you used these pretty extensively in the all mountain setting as well?


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## Extremo (Nov 6, 2008)

The SL's don't have canting. That's the only drawback. 

As far as riding goes, I suffered a bone contusion the almost sidelined me for the season last year. My doc said no jumping so I ended up just charging the rest of the mountain which is what led me to buy these. I didn't end up riding them in the park until this year and fell love with them even more. A few clicks of forward lean and they can charge anywhere. Run the highbacks straight up and they're the perfect park binding. 

I really wish they had canting though.


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## Extremo (Nov 6, 2008)

DrEwTiMe said:


> Your now the 3rd person to recommend these bindings to me. I talked to someone in person at a shop who said the same thing. I searched on the internet real fast and found the 2013's for 208 dollars which is well below the price of my other 3 options. Is there something I'm missing why such a great binding would be priced so low? I would obviously love to save the 50 or so dollars if they are really all that but I'm willing to splurge a little more if I'm really gonna get what i pay for.


The Phantoms are just bomb bindings. The metal baseplate isn't too stiff. The assym ankle straps feel like Burton and Unions. The toe strap is solid and responsive. The highback is stiff but shaped to allow lateral flex.


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## scotty100 (Apr 3, 2012)

Extremo said:


> The SL's don't have canting. That's the only drawback.
> 
> As far as riding goes, I suffered a bone contusion the almost sidelined me for the season last year. My doc said no jumping so I ended up just charging the rest of the mountain which is what led me to buy these. I didn't end up riding them in the park until this year and fell love with them even more. A few clicks of forward lean and they can charge anywhere. Run the highbacks straight up and they're the perfect park binding.
> 
> I really wish they had canting though.


Correct me if I'm wrong extremo but isn't the new Union Factory binding for 2014 basically the SL with canting added?


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## Extremo (Nov 6, 2008)

scotty100 said:


> Correct me if I'm wrong extremo but isn't the new Union Factory binding for 2014 basically the SL with canting added?


And without the asymmetric highback. But the team highback seemed to be more popular this year anyways so it may be a good upgrade.


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## DrEwTiMe (Dec 13, 2012)

Extremo said:


> The SL's don't have canting. That's the only drawback.
> 
> I really wish they had canting though.


My previous bindings are like 7 years old and have zero bells and whistles, but canting seems to be something that I may not regret now but down the road will be kicking myself for overlooking. Am I correct to hold canting in the " make or break" category in looking for a purchase? I have herd a lot of people rave about them, and had a chance to ride them for a day when I tried the Maestro's and felt like I could run a marathon after an 8 hour day of boarding.



Extremo said:


> The Phantoms are just bomb bindings. The metal baseplate isn't too stiff. The assym ankle straps feel like Burton and Unions. The toe strap is solid and responsive. The highback is stiff but shaped to allow lateral flex.


These also don't have canting as i can tell but for 200 bucks I would me more inclined to overlook this as they are definitely affordable. These may even be a great upgrade for my secondary Salomon deck. But I gotta look for my DH2 for now 



> Originally Posted by scotty100
> Correct me if I'm wrong extremo but isn't the new Union Factory binding for 2014 basically the SL with canting added?


These obviously aren't going to available for another 6 or so months correct since they are gonna drop right before the new year?


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## Rookie09 (Sep 5, 2012)

You're correct about Raiden bindings not having canted footbeds. I think it differs between people, but personally I didn't notice any pros or cons with the canted beds when I used the wedgie on my deltas. Unless you have pain from stress in your knees, I think you'll be fine without canting. My Raiden bindings are much more comfortable than my Ride's were (it might differ by model though). I feel like the ankle and toe straps are much more comfortable and the highback has a more "natural shape" (couldn't even fold the highback all the way down on the Ride bindings because they were too wide at the end). All this is just my opinion though. Other people might have different experiences.


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## Extremo (Nov 6, 2008)

DrEwTiMe said:


> My previous bindings are like 7 years old and have zero bells and whistles, but canting seems to be something that I may not regret now but down the road will be kicking myself for overlooking. Am I correct to hold canting in the " make or break" category in looking for a purchase? I have herd a lot of people rave about them, and had a chance to ride them for a day when I tried the Maestro's and felt like I could run a marathon after an 8 hour day of boarding.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I really don't care about canting. Maybe the 3.5 degree beds are noticable but I run a 24.75-25 inch stance and no amount of canting I've tried has been noticable to me. But I've only tried canted bindings, I've never owned one. Maybe if I had ridden one full time and went to a 0 cant I'd notice. Who knows but it's not make or break for me. 

Honestly the Phantoms are a really good binding. Flex, Ankle strap and highbacks are make or break for me and I'd say they're good in all 3. One thing I don't like about them is their dampening system is air bag and they blow out as the plastic breaks down.


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## DrEwTiMe (Dec 13, 2012)

Extremo said:


> I really don't care about canting.
> Honestly the Phantoms are a really good binding. Flex, Ankle strap and highbacks are make or break for me and I'd say they're good in all 3. One thing I don't like about them is their dampening system is air bag and they blow out as the plastic breaks down.


Haha didn't you just say before that you really wished the Unions had canting? I would think for a rider like yourself with previous injuries that the canting would help relieve the lower body stress for you.



Rookie09 said:


> My Raiden bindings are much more comfortable than my Ride's were (it might differ by model though). I feel like the ankle and toe straps are much more comfortable and the highback has a more "natural shape" (couldn't even fold the highback all the way down on the Ride bindings because they were too wide at the end).


Do you happen to remember what model and year bindings your Ride bindings were?

So the gist of most of your posts are telling me to scrap all 3 of my choices and go with the phantoms isn't it? I would be all in for them except the fact that they are air bags scares me. Being that the last time before now I was able to financially afford bindings was like 7 years ago I need something thats gonna last!! I can't imagine riding those bindings anymore if one binding had blown out bags and the other didn't :blink:


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## Rookie09 (Sep 5, 2012)

> So the gist of most of your posts are telling me to scrap all 3 of my choices and go with the phantoms isn't it? haha


haha no not at all. im just saying some of the stuff that i noticed with my stuff that you can take into consideration. my ride bindings were 2011 delta mvmnt bindings (the last year they were made. i think the rodeos replaced them or something). the ankle strap wasn't all the comfortable. the toe strap was pretty good but the webbing would begin to break little by little and the strap holding the toe strap in place began to strip (i did buy them used). the highback felt fine while riding but was awkward to fold down. and although i didn't notice much difference with the canting, the wedgie footbed has pretty thick padding which is nice.

i've used two pairs of union bindings, both brand new (2011 DLX and 2012 Contact Pro) and i really loved them. the footbed padding was similar to raiden's padding except for no "airbag." the ankle straps were really nice. the toe straps were similar to raiden's. id say raiden's conform to boot shape a bit better but the unions are thicker and seem a bit more durable. i like both highbacks.

i can't really compare the bindings you selected since i haven't used them, but these are just some of my thoughts on bindings ive owned by the same brand. it's different with everybody but personally id rank the bindings 1) phantoms, 2) SLs, 3) cartels, and 4) maestros. im sure they're all very good bindings though.


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## Extremo (Nov 6, 2008)

DrEwTiMe said:


> Haha didn't you just say before that you really wished the Unions had canting? I would think for a rider like yourself with previous injuries that the canting would help relieve the lower body stress for you.


Oh I def wish they did. It something all bindings should prob have. But it's def not a deal breaker. 

It's like boots that ergonomically lean inward. Not all boots do, and it's not something you really notice, but you might if you came from a boot that did to a boot that didn't. It's just something you'd think all boots would incorporate into the design.


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## DrEwTiMe (Dec 13, 2012)

Rookie09 said:


> i can't really compare the bindings you selected since i haven't used them, but these are just some of my thoughts on bindings ive owned by the same brand. it's different with everybody but personally id rank the bindings 1) phantoms, 2) SLs, 3) cartels, and 4) maestros. im sure they're all very good bindings though.


Although the movements were a little toward the lower end the Maestros have the same "webbing" on the to strap and I could definitely see that as being a weak area for wear and tare, I did notice a little bit to the chewing on the toe strap but like I said before my boot in the Medium Maestro couldn't be a worse fit if I tried.



Extremo said:


> Oh I def wish they did. It something all bindings should prob have. But it's def not a deal breaker.
> 
> It's like boots that ergonomically lean inward. Not all boots do, and it's not something you really notice, but you might if you came from a boot that did to a boot that didn't. It's just something you'd think all boots would incorporate into the design.


I see your point. At this point it looks like the most sensible purchase would be to check out the SL's. I would go phantoms but I don't' feel like dealing with the airbag issue and cartels are out becauseI like my boots to remain intact. Not to mention they match perfectly with the color scheme of my board which is always a plus lol. 

Extermo- what size boot are you? Im currently in a 9.5 boot and see the size goes to 10 for the M/L and the L/XL starts from 9.5 -14...Any advice as to what would be best to go with. Im gonna try to find a physical location to bring my boot in but if i can't find one I'd rather not take a shot in the dar.


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## scotty100 (Apr 3, 2012)

I'll throw another option out there for you to consider: the K2 company. Probably will be my next binding. Med-stiff, canted, and has K2's harshmellow cushioning/dampening tech. All tool-less. Gets good reviews. No problems with straps or ratchets. Would be a good fit for your DH2.


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## DrEwTiMe (Dec 13, 2012)

scotty100 said:


> I'll throw another option out there for you to consider: the K2 company. Probably will be my next binding. Med-stiff, canted, and has K2's harshmellow cushioning/dampening tech. All tool-less. Gets good reviews. No problems with straps or ratchets. Would be a good fit for your DH2.


haha the point of my post was to narrow the choices down not expand them!! :dizzy::dizzy:

Seriously though, those look like a good all around binding as well. Ill check them out.

Edit: I was just thinking, are prices of these bindings gonna start coming down considering we are in the ladder end of the season? Should I wait another week or 2 to catch some of these on clearance?


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## scotty100 (Apr 3, 2012)

Yeah for sure...wait another month if you can and you'll start to see good savings online for 2013 products. I've bought gear from dogfunk.com before, they have good end-of-season discounts and have an awesome return policy...return it to them for a refund anytime if it doesn't work out type thing.


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## DrEwTiMe (Dec 13, 2012)

scotty100 said:


> Yeah for sure...wait another month if you can and you'll start to see good savings online for 2013 products. I've bought gear from dogfunk.com before, they have good end-of-season discounts and have an awesome return policy...return it to them for a refund anytime if it doesn't work out type thing.


Yeah I think I may just do that since I have my Salomon deck all ready to go if so I won't miss out on any trips. Iv been riding that for the last 7 years so so whats another couple runs. I want my DH2 to have a complete new setup, sounds kinda dumb that I have a brand new deck not being used but I never said I was smart to begin with haha.

So with dogfunk you could actually try the bindings out and return then if you don't like them or they don't fit your boots correctly? That would take a lot of the stress about buying online if thats really the case.


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## trapper (Jan 15, 2013)

Dogfunk is awesome. I returned a jacket that I didn't like (used once) and when I dropped it off at UPS, they refunded amount to my card the next day. They didn't even receive the package back until several days later.


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## scotty100 (Apr 3, 2012)

Yeah, for example I'm about to return a 2012 Rome factory board and Rome 2012 mob bindings I bought from dogfunk last summer when they had deep discounts before the 2013 stuff came in. Used the board and bindings maybe twice over christmas period and just wasn't a good set-up for me. Great thing is they will accept a return on both items and refund me completely. I will then buy my next more-freeride/powder set up from them in return. Win-win. Great policy but not one that can be abused too many times...i.e. buying, using for a season, returning for the new stuff next season type thing. They obviously don't allow that. Only genuine returns acceptable I believe.


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## trapper (Jan 15, 2013)

Another thing about them (that I just found out since I just bought my new board) is that if anything you buy goes on sale within 30 days of your purchase, as long as they still have that same product, color, size, etc in stock they will refund you the difference between what you paid and the sale price.


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## Extremo (Nov 6, 2008)

DrEwTiMe said:


> Extermo- what size boot are you? Im currently in a 9.5 boot and see the size goes to 10 for the M/L and the L/XL starts from 9.5 -14...Any advice as to what would be best to go with. Im gonna try to find a physical location to bring my boot in but if i can't find one I'd rather not take a shot in the dar.


I wear a 10.5 in the M/L. You could easily fit an 11 in there as I don't have my toe ramp or toe strap extended all the way. I'd def go with the M/L with a 9.5.


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## Rookie09 (Sep 5, 2012)

Extremo said:


> I wear a 10.5 in the M/L. You could easily fit an 11 in there as I don't have my toe ramp or toe strap extended all the way. I'd def go with the M/L with a 9.5.


yes definitely go with M/L for union. my first pair of boots was way too big for me (size 10.5) and the L/XL barely fit. The next season I got boots that actually fit me (size 9 haha) and my boots didn't even come close to fitting so I had to sell my Contact Pros.


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## DrEwTiMe (Dec 13, 2012)

scotty100 said:


> Yeah, for example I'm about to return a 2012 Rome factory board and Rome 2012 mob bindings I bought from dogfunk last summer when they had deep discounts before the 2013 stuff came in. Used the board and bindings maybe twice over christmas period and just wasn't a good set-up for me. Great thing is they will accept a return on both items and refund me completely.


Holy shit, thats unbelievable! I'm definitely not the type to abuse that a companies trust like that. But I really hope they stock the bindings I end up buying because hands down a company with that kind of customer service deserves mu business.



trapper said:


> Another thing about them (that I just found out since I just bought my new board) is that if anything you buy goes on sale within 30 days of your purchase, as long as they still have that same product, color, size, etc in stock they will refund you the difference between what you paid and the sale price.


Lol ok that settles it, I'm not buying anywhere else.



Extremo said:


> I wear a 10.5 in the M/L. You could easily fit an 11 in there as I don't have my toe ramp or toe strap extended all the way. I'd def go with the M/L with a 9.5.


Thanks bro you have been a huge help.

********

I think I was just ultimately convinced to purchase the SL's. I in my best fit of OCD was reading my 9,000th review of all 3 bindings and was stopped dead in my tracks by " the good ride's" review of these guys, check out the review if your curious. The SL' review can be found  *Here* 
Ride Maestro  *Here* 
Raiden Phantom  *Here*

Now I don't know if they are a little biased but they definitely do review of all products. By lengths of reviews alone it seams they didn't give the Phantom's or he Maestro's he time of day. But their content of both of those review reflects what many of you have said so that leads me to believe they are pretty accurate. I think after all this I am gonna go with the Union SL's. The only thing that they don't' have that the more expensive Maestro's have is the canting, and I'm not sure that worth the extra 30 bucks. Not to mention If i buy the SL's from dogfunk now they may come down again in a month which I will definitely jump on!


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## DrEwTiMe (Dec 13, 2012)

Well I caved, I may have ended up wasting money but I just bought the SL's for 270. Granted they are probably gonna be cheaper in a month but I was only able to find one store that had the M/L's in stock and figured I would have a hard time finding them in another month or so. 

Many thanks to everyone who helped me I really appreciate all of your advice. I think I am gonna be pretty happy when these babies arrive!!


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## scotty100 (Apr 3, 2012)

Nice - hope they work out for you:thumbsup:


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## Extremo (Nov 6, 2008)

DrEwTiMe said:


> Well I caved, I may have ended up wasting money but I just bought the SL's for 270. Granted they are probably gonna be cheaper in a month but I was only able to find one store that had the M/L's in stock and figured I would have a hard time finding them in another month or so.
> 
> Many thanks to everyone who helped me I really appreciate all of your advice. I think I am gonna be pretty happy when these babies arrive!!


Ya dude I think you'll be pretty happy. As far as comfort, flex, and performance they're the best binding I've ridden. Let me know if you need any help with set up.


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## DrEwTiMe (Dec 13, 2012)

Extremo said:


> Ya dude I think you'll be pretty happy. As far as comfort, flex, and performance they're the best binding I've ridden. Let me know if you need any help with set up.


Thanks again man, I will. I'll post an update once I try them out.


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## m0rph3us (Jan 26, 2012)

Haha, I was a bit late here. I just bought some new Cartel bindings on sale. However, I do have an older set of SL's and I liked them a lot when I was riding them. You'll enjoy them.


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## DrEwTiMe (Dec 13, 2012)

m0rph3us said:


> Haha, I was a bit late here. I just bought some new Cartel bindings on sale. However, I do have an older set of SL's and I liked them a lot when I was riding them. You'll enjoy them.


Yeah apparently they got a complete overhaul for 2012 which corrected a few major gripes people have had with them. I personally can't wait till they get here!!! I got free 2 day shipping so thankfully I won't have to wait too long.


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## DrEwTiMe (Dec 13, 2012)

Extremo said:


> Ya dude I think you'll be pretty happy. As far as comfort, flex, and performance they're the best binding I've ridden. Let me know if you need any help with set up.


So the bindings arrived today and I'm about to start mounting them!! As per the advice of another thread I went the the hardware store and picked up some of the thread seal tape instead of using the liquid stuff like I used to. Do i just wrap the threads of the screws once or twice with this? Not sure how much I should be using.


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## Extremo (Nov 6, 2008)

DrEwTiMe said:


> So the bindings arrived today and I'm about to start mounting them!! As per the advice of another thread I went the the hardware store and picked up some of the thread seal tape instead of using the liquid stuff like I used to. Do i just wrap the threads of the screws once or twice with this? Not sure how much I should be using.


I'd skip the thread lock. I've never had a problem with these bolts coming loose, and I'm swapping these over to different boards every couple of days. I don't even have the original thread lock on them anymore and I haven't had any problems. I'd prob wait until you do before throwing it on.


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## TheNorminator (Jan 6, 2013)

Can you post pics of the SL's? I'm really happy for you, and I read Thegoodride's review too. They seem really sick! I kinda wanna buy bindings too, but considering that I'd put them on a cheap ass rental board, I should probably wait till the end of next year.


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## DrEwTiMe (Dec 13, 2012)

Extremo said:


> I'd skip the thread lock. I've never had a problem with these bolts coming loose, and I'm swapping these over to different boards every couple of days. I don't even have the original thread lock on them anymore and I haven't had any problems. I'd prob wait until you do before throwing it on.


Sorry I may not have been clear. I bought the *teflon tape* in the plumbing section of my hardware store. I just was wondering how many times to wrap the threads with the tape. I used to use loctite like most people do but this sounded like much less of a hassle to use.



TheNorminator said:


> Can you post pics of the SL's? I'm really happy for you, and I read Thegoodride's review too.


The original pic files were massive so I shrunk then down considerably, hopefully they still do the trick for you!


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## DrEwTiMe (Dec 13, 2012)

Ok so she is all put together and I just have a couple of questions regarding the fit of the toe straps..

I have never had toe straps as my old bindings could be considered antiques at this point. The directions said it should be centered over the toe of the boot and I'm not sure if I have this right. I have also never encountered the lateral movement of the toe straps( forward/backward movement).

I left them where they were and here is how they look....Do these appear to be centered or should I make some further adjustments or move the lateral adjustments up further. Can I for example, move the latter strap forward while I keep the ratcheting strap back in terms of lateral adjustment?


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## Rookie09 (Sep 5, 2012)

DrEwTiMe said:


> Ok so she is all put together and I just have a couple of questions regarding the fit of the toe straps..
> 
> I have never had toe straps as my old bindings could be considered antiques at this point. The directions said it should be centered over the toe of the boot and I'm not sure if I have this right. I have also never encountered the lateral movement of the toe straps( forward/backward movement).
> 
> I left them where they were and here is how they look....Do these appear to be centered or should I make some further adjustments or move the lateral adjustments up further. Can I for example, move the latter strap forward while I keep the ratcheting strap back in terms of lateral adjustment?


It's hard to tell for sure with all the pictures being taken from the same angle, but it looks like it's set up correctly. You could maybe even slide the straps a bit further toward your toes, but the way you have it now is fine too, personal preferance. Also, how wide is your stance (from middle of binding to middle of binding)? It looks pretty narrow.


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## DrEwTiMe (Dec 13, 2012)

Rookie09 said:


> It's hard to tell for sure with all the pictures being taken from the same angle, but it looks like it's set up correctly. You could maybe even slide the straps a bit further toward your toes, but the way you have it now is fine too, personal preferance. Also, how wide is your stance (from middle of binding to middle of binding)? It looks pretty narrow.


I mounted the bindings at 21 inches which is where the boards "center" is. I didn't mess with moving my stance in terms of forward or backwards since I don't' see too much powder. I took the pics from that angle because I'm just worried about the left/right positioning of the straps. If I took any other angle you wouldn't be able to tell at all if they are centered correctly no?


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## Rookie09 (Sep 5, 2012)

DrEwTiMe said:


> I mounted the bindings at 21 inches which is where the boards "center" is. I didn't mess with moving my stance in terms of forward or backwards since I don't' see too much powder. I took the pics from that angle because I'm just worried about the left/right positioning of the straps. If I took any other angle you wouldn't be able to tell at all if they are centered correctly no?


well the left/right positioning looks fine to me. and 21 inches is a pretty good stance, it just doesn't look that wide in the picture. must be the angle it was taken at.


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## Extremo (Nov 6, 2008)

DrEwTiMe said:


> Ok so she is all put together and I just have a couple of questions regarding the fit of the toe straps..
> 
> I have never had toe straps as my old bindings could be considered antiques at this point. The directions said it should be centered over the toe of the boot and I'm not sure if I have this right. I have also never encountered the lateral movement of the toe straps( forward/backward movement).
> 
> I left them where they were and here is how they look....Do these appear to be centered or should I make some further adjustments or move the lateral adjustments up further. Can I for example, move the latter strap forward while I keep the ratcheting strap back in terms of lateral adjustment?


Damn, I haven't seen boots like that in quite some time. They look pretty good. I woulnd't obsess about getting them centered. If you get any binding to center perfectly on a boot consider yourself lucky.


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## East§ide (Mar 14, 2011)

The SL's ankle strap looks considerably nicer than the ones that were on my old Forces. I just picked up a pair of Restricted Re:Flex Cartels and couldnt be happier. The toe caps are amazing, you cant even feel the asym ankle strap and the responsiveness is insane.


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## Mel M (Feb 2, 2012)

First, congrats on your SL. I'm about to put mine in an NS Raptor, so I'm about to be interested the same boat. 

As far as your cap strap question... I own Union Atlases with similar straps and it really depends on your boot. With my Burton boot into had better luck centering it over my toe, so really it was more to the side . With my Salomon boot, I centered it over the boot itself. However, I still found it slipping off more than occasionally, which prompted me to get the Burton Gettagrips. 

I heard the new SL line had stickier cap straps, so I hope that solved that problem.


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## UNION INHOUSE (Nov 13, 2012)

DrEwTiMe said:


> Well I caved, I may have ended up wasting money but I just bought the SL's for 270. Granted they are probably gonna be cheaper in a month but I was only able to find one store that had the M/L's in stock and figured I would have a hard time finding them in another month or so.
> 
> Many thanks to everyone who helped me I really appreciate all of your advice. I think I am gonna be pretty happy when these babies arrive!!


You'll be stoked for sure. Thanks for the support!!!


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## DrEwTiMe (Dec 13, 2012)

Extremo said:


> Damn, I haven't seen boots like that in quite some time. They look pretty good. I woulnd't obsess about getting them centered. If you get any binding to center perfectly on a boot consider yourself lucky.


I know man they are just about 7 years old at this point :thumbsdown::thumbsdown::thumbsdown:... Thats why I posted in the Boots section so I can get some suggestions on what boots to pick up when everything goes on "end of season" sale. I have a feeling my skills will jump considerably after I have gear that not almost a decade old!!!! The boots are the last thing to go thankfully!!

I think the fact that they are so old are attributing to the fact that I can't quite get them centered correctly.



Mel M said:


> First, congrats on your SL. I'm about to put mine in an NS Raptor, so I'm about to be interested the same boat.
> 
> As far as your cap strap question... I own Union Atlases with similar straps and it really depends on your boot. With my Burton boot into had better luck centering it over my toe, so really it was more to the side . With my Salomon boot, I centered it over the boot itself. However, I still found it slipping off more than occasionally, which prompted me to get the Burton Gettagrips.
> 
> I heard the new SL line had stickier cap straps, so I hope that solved that problem.


Yeah this is my first experience with the "toe" strap style so was just making sure I wasn't missing anything.



UNION INHOUSE said:


> You'll be stoked for sure. Thanks for the support!!!


Your most welcome brotha!! I haven't actually hit the slopes yet but I was playing around on my floor after mounting them and they feel like nothing is there yet Im super secure.. Compared to my last bindings these babies are super snug!! I can't wait to take them out..Oh...and they look BADASS too!!


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## DrEwTiMe (Dec 13, 2012)

*DAY 1 On The SL"s*



UNION INHOUSE said:


> You'll be stoked for sure. Thanks for the support!!!


Dude, I just want to let you know that these bindings are UNBELIEVABLE!!!!! These bindings have just sold me on Union forever.

I took them out for the first time today and I can't believe how responsive yet flexible they are. I did about 70% of my riding in the park today and these bindings kicked absolute ass!!!!

The other 30% I was hard charging( wanted to see the true versatility) and these babies were still asking for more when I was done with those runs. 

My buddy also got a new board today and went with the Cartel EST on his Nug board. I gave it a little test run and thank GOD I didn't go with those bindings, they have absolutely NOTHING on the SL's in terms of response, stability yet incorporating that torsional flex to enjoy in the park. He was actually kicking himself for not getting the SL's in woodgrain color.

So all and all, now that I have actually tried all 3 of the bindings originally in question.

UNION 100% HANDS DOWN!!:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:


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## crash77 (Jan 24, 2011)

Didn't feel the need to start a new thread since it's a union question.

But can someone please list the union bindings in categories or order of stiffness. You know like what is in the all mtn, park, mid stiff, stiff, soft, etc.
The website doesn't help and I've been trying to figure them out while sifting through threads, but some of them seem so similar. It would be greatly appreciated.


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## hktrdr (Apr 3, 2012)

crash77 said:


> Didn't feel the need to start a new thread since it's a union question.
> 
> But can someone please list the union bindings in categories or order of stiffness. You know like what is in the all mtn, park, mid stiff, stiff, soft, etc.
> The website doesn't help and I've been trying to figure them out while sifting through threads, but some of them seem so similar. It would be greatly appreciated.


Union generally does not like to give flex/stiffness ratings for their bindings. Among other things, they point out (correctly IMO) that it is not just overall flex, but also where the binding flexes - e.g., the Contact Pros have a pretty soft highback but a very responsive baseplate (similar to the Rome 390s).
In addition, flex on Union bindings changes from year to year - e.g., the 11/12 SL had carbon in the baseplate, while the 12/13 does not.

In very general terms here is a spectrum of Union binding stiffness from my experience (i.e., not including the DLXs, etc.) from Soft to Stiff:
Contacts < Atlas/SL 12/13/Contact Pro < MC < Atlas Team/SL 11/12 < Force (up until 12/13) < Charger

Union Inhouse might be along shortly to add/correct the above.


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## crash77 (Jan 24, 2011)

hktrdr said:


> Union generally does not like to give flex/stiffness ratings for their bindings. Among other things, they point out (correctly IMO) that it is not just overall flex, but also where the binding flexes - e.g., the Contact Pros have a pretty soft highback but a very responsive baseplate (similar to the Rome 390s).
> In addition, flex on Union bindings changes from year to year - e.g., the 11/12 SL had carbon in the baseplate, while the 12/13 does not.
> 
> In very general terms here is a spectrum of Union binding stiffness from my experience (i.e., not including the DLXs, etc.) from Soft to Stiff:
> ...


Ok. So I think my idea of stiffness/flex, response, etc. vs riding style/preference is not as generalized as I had assumed. The more I read and learn, a lot of this is a matter of rider preference. It sounds like the best thing to do is try to demo as much gear as possible. Sorry for the noob inquiry guys, still trying to wrap my head around all this tech, which is constantly changing!!!


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## DrEwTiMe (Dec 13, 2012)

crash77 said:


> Ok. So I think my idea of stiffness/flex, response, etc. vs riding style/preference is not as generalized as I had assumed. The more I read and learn, a lot of this is a matter of rider preference. It sounds like the best thing to do is try to demo as much gear as possible. Sorry for the noob inquiry guys, still trying to wrap my head around all this tech, which is constantly changing!!!


Dude trust me, my head was spinning with all this new shit going into bindings. The last time I bought bindings half of these companies didn't even exist. I did TONS of research before I ended up making a decision on the SL's and from my understanding the Metafuse is their stiffest top of the line binding, then comes the SL's then comes the force. 

Those are the only ones that I know because none of the other products in their line can up a lot in discussion in my search to get a grip with all that goes into bindings now.

Like I said I ride the SL's and can tell you I can shred the shit out of any trail as fast as my board can take me and feel like I'm in complete control, yet the other day I spent 80% of my time in the park and the torsional flex and the shock absorption allowed me to kill it there as well.


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## crash77 (Jan 24, 2011)

DrEwTiMe said:


> Dude trust me, my head was spinning with all this new shit going into bindings. The last time I bought bindings half of these companies didn't even exist. I did TONS of research before I ended up making a decision on the SL's and from my understanding the Metafuse is their stiffest top of the line binding, then comes the SL's then comes the force.
> 
> Those are the only ones that I know because none of the other products in their line can up a lot in discussion in my search to get a grip with all that goes into bindings now.
> 
> Like I said I ride the SL's and can tell you I can shred the shit out of any trail as fast as my board can take me and feel like I'm in complete control, yet the other day I spent 80% of my time in the park and the torsional flex and the shock absorption allowed me to kill it there as well.


Sounds like your enjoying your new set-up!:thumbsup:

Yeah, I just pulled the trigger on malavitas that were on sale for $156. I was on the fence with these, hence the inquiries about union. But for that price, I said what the hell!


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## DrEwTiMe (Dec 13, 2012)

crash77 said:


> Sounds like your enjoying your new set-up!:thumbsup:
> 
> Yeah, I just pulled the trigger on malavitas that were on sale for $156. I was on the fence with these, hence the inquiries about union. But for that price, I said what the hell!


Yeah bro thats a steal! Let me know how those babies ride!


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## crash77 (Jan 24, 2011)

DrEwTiMe said:


> Yeah bro thats a steal! Let me know how those babies ride!


For sure!:yahoo:


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## hktrdr (Apr 3, 2012)

DrEwTiMe said:


> Dude trust me, my head was spinning with all this new shit going into bindings. The last time I bought bindings half of these companies didn't even exist. I did TONS of research before I ended up making a decision on the SL's and from my understanding *the Metafuse is their stiffest top of the line binding, then comes the SL's then comes the force*.


Nope. 10 chars


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## DrEwTiMe (Dec 13, 2012)

hktrdr said:


> Nope. 10 chars


 What does that mean??


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## alex12 (Dec 23, 2010)

crash77 said:


> Sounds like your enjoying your new set-up!:thumbsup:
> 
> Yeah, I just pulled the trigger on malavitas that were on sale for $156. I was on the fence with these, hence the inquiries about union. But for that price, I said what the hell!


shoot, they still have any more at that price where you got it from?!


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## hktrdr (Apr 3, 2012)

DrEwTiMe said:


> What does that mean??


It means what you wrote is wrong.


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## crash77 (Jan 24, 2011)

alex12 said:


> shoot, they still have any more at that price where you got it from?!


They still have 'em in stock, not sure of the colors if that matters. evo.com


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## DrEwTiMe (Dec 13, 2012)

hktrdr said:


> It means what you wrote is wrong.


Well how about elaborating, saying I'm wrong and not posting any relevant information to the contrary is just useless.


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## hktrdr (Apr 3, 2012)

DrEwTiMe said:


> Well how about elaborating, saying I'm wrong and not posting any relevant information to the contrary is just useless.


I *did*, about 10 hours before your post


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## DrEwTiMe (Dec 13, 2012)

hktrdr said:


> I *did*, about 10 hours before your post



Well then you're not correct, there is no way the SL is stiffer the the MC. The MC High back is a solid piece where the SL is not. In addition to that, the MC high back is made out of carbon fiber which is rigid and responsive, the SL has a carved out asymmetrical polymer type substance high back which is where that torsional flex comes from. As you can see they are completely opposite in terms of flexibility. Until this year when the charger beats out everything in terms of stiffness the SL's were a step under the MC Metafuse. Google reviews of the MC and they will tell you the same thing I am.

Like my original post said, I cant comment on the other parts of their line, so you may be right about those. But until the charger was redone this year the MC was top then came the SL.


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## hktrdr (Apr 3, 2012)

DrEwTiMe said:


> Well then you not correct, there is no way SL is stiffer the the MC, the highback has a crap ton more torsional flex where as the MC is solid. MC is also made out of carbon fiber which is rigid and responsive, the SL has a carved out asymmetrical high back. Until this year when the charger beats out everything in terms of stiffness the SL's were a step under the MC Metafuse. Google reviews of the MC and they will tell you what I am.
> 
> Like my original post said, I cant comment on the other parts of their line, so you may be right about those. But until the charger was redone this year the MC was top then came the SL.


Complete and utter horse shit. Even the Union reps (both Johan and George) on this site have clearly stated the opposite - e.g., here and here.


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## DrEwTiMe (Dec 13, 2012)

It actually seems like both of them would rather not rate them on stiffness but were forced to because of questions. So its a matter of opinion it seems...


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## hktrdr (Apr 3, 2012)

DrEwTiMe said:


> It actually seems like both of them would rather not rate them on stiffness but were forced to because of questions. So its a matter of opinion it seems...


Wrong. As I have stated before, Union prefers not to get into flex ratings for a number of reasons (people misunderstand the whole flex/responsiveness thing, changes between models from year to year, flex of different parts of the bindings, etc.), but the facts are quite clear:

SL and MC have fundamentally the same baseplate - Atlas Stage III. However, MC is cored out - hence, not as stiff. Stage II baseplate on the Force is 'beefier' and stiffer than either.
SL and MC highbacks are very, very similar - carbon is used in the MC to reduce weight, not to increase stiffness. Force highbacks are quite different, but at least as stiff in most respects.

Therefore, overall stiffness: Force > SL > MC. Which is how all our shops have marketed them - and incidentally entirely consistent with my personal experience.


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## Extremo (Nov 6, 2008)

hktrdr said:


> Wrong. As I have stated before, Union prefers not to get into flex ratings for a number of reasons (people misunderstand the whole flex/responsiveness thing, changes between models from year to year, flex of different parts of the bindings, etc.), but the facts are quite clear:
> 
> SL and MC have fundamentally the same baseplate - Atlas Stage III. However, MC is cored out - hence, not as stiff. Stage II baseplate on the Force is 'beefier' and stiffer than either.
> SL and MC highbacks are very, very similar - carbon is used in the MC to reduce weight, not to increase stiffness. Force highbacks are quite different, but at least as stiff in most respects.
> ...


The machine cored carbon injected MC baseplate is significantly stiffer than the regular Atlas baseplate. I can't tell any difference in stiffness between the Force baseplate and non-carbon injected Atlas baseplate. 

For Highbacks the Force is stiffer than the SL's and MC's torsionally. But you can't really compare because the Force flex pattern is symmetric, whereas the SL and MC's stiffness changes based on the pressure applied to particular parts of the highback.


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