# Union force or Cartel Restricted Reflex



## NYinfamous2k2 (Aug 5, 2009)

Force's over cartels any day of the week.


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## civic2tegg (Sep 30, 2011)

If your Forces are doing their job and aren't falling apart keep em' put $230 towards lift tickets instead of bindings. I just bought the new Union Forces can't ride them till after xmas ( gift from my gf  ) but they seem sick. Cartles also seem awesome all about prefrence but don't buy unless you need it just remember this years $230 model will be like $180 this summer.


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## Alex1 (Dec 19, 2011)

Hm, I thought that the new Cartels 2012 are much better, because of the Reflex and so on? If not, I´d keep the Force´s. Some People a writing they are so much better this year. The asym-strap, no foward lean ....





civic2tegg said:


> If your Cartels are doing their job and aren't falling apart keep em' put $230 towards lift tickets instead of bindings. I just bought the new Union Forces can't ride them till after xmas ( gift from my gf  ) but they seem sick. Cartles also seem awesome all about prefrence but don't buy unless you need it just remember this years $230 model will be like $180 this summer.


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## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

Burton over Union in general.

Especially Cartels over Forces. Better ankle strap, better dampening, better toestrap, a highback you can actually push on in a turn... Forces are... Trendy?


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## Snowrax (Mar 6, 2011)

I have the 2012 Forces and would not recommend them. These are the issues I've had after 2 days riding.

1. Weird toe cap. Topic beaten to death in another thread.
2. "Grippy" ratchets. It's not really an issue and to me it's fine, but the ratchets are not as silky smooth as others have mentioned.
3. Straight out-of-the box, the side piece of the binding that allows heel depth adjustment was stripped where the nut goes. So basically the nut was spinning with the screw which made it impossible to remove. My LBS had to drill out the screw but that doesn't fix the problem because the binding side was stripped. They replaced the whole binding for me.
4. First day riding the toe cap comes off. The screw holding it came off and didn't notice.
5. Second day riding the ankle strap came off. The screw holding it also came off but thankfully I did find that screw piece.

I put some Loctite on the screws after the second day, but wasn't expecting them to crap out so soon. They aren't "bad" bindings and I do like them, but after my experience I will go with another brand for my next pair.


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## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

Snowrax said:


> I have the 2012 Forces and would not recommend them. These are the issues I've had after 2 days riding.
> 
> 1. Weird toe cap. Topic beaten to death in another thread.
> 2. "Grippy" ratchets. It's not really an issue and to me it's fine, but the ratchets are not as silky smooth as others have mentioned.
> ...


In a rare defense of Union here, besides the stripping (which is a factory issue, not really Unions fault) this all sounds like your fault. Did you tighten everything before you rode? If you didn't that all could have happened to any binding. If you did tighten everything down its a whole different thing, and more Unions fault.


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## Alex1 (Dec 19, 2011)

So, ok and what about the Union Atlas vs Cartels 2012? But I think I´ll sell my Union and will get the cartels


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## Leo (Nov 24, 2009)

NYinfamous2k2 said:


> Force's over cartels any day of the week.


Have you tried the 2012 Restricted Cartels? 

Re:Flex... Autocant... Living Hinge adjustment... Superb ratchets on both the ankle and toe straps... asym ankle strap... Toe caps are eh for me, but way better than Union's IMHO.

What Union has over Burtons though is durability. DuPont Zytel plastics and lifetime warranty on baseplates. Bomb proof. 

If you go with Union, I highly suggest you take your boots into the shop and make sure that toe strap fits properly. Or just pick up a pair of Ride ThinGrip straps and Frankenstein them.


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## Alex1 (Dec 19, 2011)

I had no chance to test the Cartels. I´ll get them today, if I don´t like them I can sent them back. So which one would you choose, the Union´s or the Cartels?




Leo said:


> Have you tried the 2012 Restricted Cartels?
> 
> Re:Flex... Autocant... Living Hinge adjustment... Superb ratchets on both the ankle and toe straps... asym ankle strap... Toe caps are eh for me, but way better than Union's IMHO.
> 
> ...


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## NYinfamous2k2 (Aug 5, 2009)

Leo said:


> Have you tried the 2012 Restricted Cartels?
> 
> Re:Flex... Autocant... Living Hinge adjustment... Superb ratchets on both the ankle and toe straps... asym ankle strap... Toe caps are eh for me, but way better than Union's IMHO.
> 
> ...


No, my fault , I didnt know they re designed them for this year, I was going based off older models which I have owned and HATED, the forward lean was HORRIBLE, the duribility was garbage, I would literally brake straps and latters constantly and they were uncomfortable. but it sounds like they have addressed these issues with this new restricted reflex upgrade. ive tried, not owned, a pair of forces and they were pretty solid. felt real durible, I wouldnt say they were the best bindings out there but the forces vs the OLDER cartels id burn the cartels before id ride those again lol. Kinda want to try these new cartels now though just to compare.


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## Extremo (Nov 6, 2008)

Union's durability is superb. Check out the Atlas.


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## Beschatten (Oct 4, 2011)

I picked up 2012 Atlas and 2012 Cartels restricted this season. Only thing I didn't like about the Cartels was that because the footbed is a lot lower I picked up some overhang on it. My size 11 boots on a 25.3mm board--gave like half an inch more for my toes to hit the snow.

I did hate the 2009 Forces though, baseplate broke (wtf, they did replace it though), and it was obnoxiously heavy.


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## ill gotten gain (Dec 25, 2011)

Leo said:


> Have you tried the 2012 Restricted Cartels?
> 
> What Union has over Burtons though is durability. DuPont Zytel plastics and lifetime warranty on baseplates. Bomb proof.


Pretty sure Burton offers a lifetime warranty on their baseplates as well.


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## yojik (Sep 14, 2011)

My major gripe with the 2012 cartel is that the ratchets are terrible. That's the reason I frankenstein'd a pair of c60 ratchets on them and loved it.

I think as a bigger, muscular dude with size 13 feet that I inherently stress my equipment more than a lighter dude would.

That being said, I can't say anything about union.

The cartels are nice bindings if you can get over the shitty ratchets.


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## Riley212 (Nov 9, 2011)

bought unions sl's this season, didn't like them, they are built really solid but they just dont work properly. the ratchets are hard to undo and the new toe strap still fits weird. 

i got the new cartels and they work perfect. i like them. we shall see how long they last though, the construction quality doesn't feel as good as the unions.


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## The-Snoopy (Nov 17, 2011)

Burton do offer lifetime warranty on the baseplate as well Proform - Binding Guidelines ..

/Cheers


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