# Steep chutes, blacks, double blacks. Question regarding technique.



## AIRider (Dec 25, 2010)

Here's a quote from Snowolf, I guess I didn't search. 



Snowolf said:


> This applies for both turns but especially so for the heelside turn. The reason you are washing out most likely is because you are most likely too stiff legged and are remaining too far forward at the end of the turn.
> 
> As you no doubt know, to initiate a good turn on steep terrain, you need to shift your weight forward over the front foot. The problem is that often we get so focused on this that we forget that there is a time to get aft on our board. In addition, we have learned to flex (get low) going into each turn and then gradually extend through the turn. What often happens though is we extend through the apex of the turn and then become static through turn completion. Both of these things allow the tail of our board to loose edge hold and skid out from under us.
> 
> ...


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## IdahoFreshies (Jul 9, 2011)

As far as the video goes its about the right way to get down, and I dont know the terrain and what the conditions were like, but it looked like a lot of arm flailing and every time he went to slow down he basically skidded to a stop and switched edges. I would have tried to keep more speed by having less of an edge angle and making more turns quicker so I could keep the speed under control without needing to pump the edge up so much im shaking and hoping down the run snowplowing skidding to a stop. Also when you get into steep and tight shit it is pretty impossible to do the traditional gas pedal turn initiation method as you would on a controlled run, just because it takes too dam long. Riding like that involves being very dynamic, as most good riders are. That involves controlled counter rotation movements with the upper body, lots of weight shifting, using that back foot to get the board around if you need to, and crossing under turns especially when its tight and narrow. 

As far as literally jumping from heel to toe and vice versa to turn, I find myself doing that every now and then when I am riding steeper terrain but that is mainly because I am playing around and adding in steeze points haha. Or if its a big open area with nice soft snow for predictable edge control. But if its really technical or tight riding you want that turn to be your speed control, and literally jumping edge to edge won't give you that brake check like a full edge turn will. I dont usually jump edge to edge, its more of a faster skidded turn with a whole lot of flexing and extension.


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## Slush Puppie (Aug 15, 2011)

As Snowwolf says, there's no reason not to make controlled turns when it gets steep and narrow(45deg/3m in this case). But it's definitely easier on perfect snow.

I would love to ride where the vid was shot though


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## Sincraft (Sep 6, 2010)

Snowolf said:


> Not the "right" way to handle steep terrain, but it is certainly a way to manage it in "survival mode". Basically, all he was doing was sideslipping the whole way down. He would side slip on the heel edge, pop 180 and side slip on the toe edge. Not really making any turns. At the entrance to the chute, totally understandable, but when it opened up, there was no reason not to make decent turns; that pitch wasnt that bad and the snow conditions looked pretty good. Not dissing the guy`s riding, but a more advanced rider used to steep terrain could have made some good turns on most of that.


I have to ask, WHY is that guy riding that terrain? It seems almost straight down. I can only imagine that the only way that would be enjoyable would be if there was about 3' of powder to ride through lol. Otherwise, maybe to say "hey I went down that" but ...didja really? One might as well take their board off and slide down with an icepick in one hand...just saying. 

This goes back to an earlier post of mine. Riding down nice powder covered blacks, only to have them turn into a mogul field 2 hour laters because, people that have NO right on being on those steeps create those moguls from making very sharp dynamic turns on skis to avoid the speed. Well, then why not ski blues and leave the terrain at least somewhat rideable, or at least make wide turns!

Sigh


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## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

Sincraft said:


> I have to ask, WHY is that guy riding that terrain? It seems almost straight down. I can only imagine that the only way that would be enjoyable would be if there was about 3' of powder to ride through lol. Otherwise, maybe to say "hey I went down that" but ...didja really? One might as well take their board off and slide down with an icepick in one hand...just saying.
> 
> This goes back to an earlier post of mine. Riding down nice powder covered blacks, only to have them turn into a mogul field 2 hour laters because, people that have NO right on being on those steeps create those moguls from making very sharp dynamic turns on skis to avoid the speed. Well, then why not ski blues and leave the terrain at least somewhat rideable, or at least make wide turns!
> 
> Sigh


i don't understand?:icon_scratch:, seems like a perfectly fine mellow little chute line with nice little controlled carves, idk about the run out...but easily doable straight line if you got a good runout. But if it would be me, i'd try to wall ride as high as possible....there doesn't look like there are any bumps or throats...so pretty clean blast


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## Noreaster (Oct 7, 2012)

wrathfuldeity said:


> i don't understand?:icon_scratch:, seems like a perfectly fine mellow little chute line with nice little controlled carves, idk about the run out...but easily doable straight line if you got a good runout. But if it would be me, i'd try to wall ride as high as possible....there doesn't look like there are any bumps or throats...so pretty clean blast


No, it's definitely not a mellow chute. Camera tends to visually flatten terrain. But yeah, this guy is not riding it as much as trying to stay upright.


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## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

Noreaster said:


> No, it's definitely not a mellow chute. Camera tends to visually flatten terrain. But yeah, this guy is not riding it as much as trying to stay upright.


yup pics flatten things out. heres a chute i want to do this winter


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## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

Noreaster said:


> No, it's definitely not a mellow chute. Camera tends to visually flatten terrain. But yeah, this guy is not riding it as much as trying to stay upright.


yup pics flatten things out. a chute i want to do this winter....no turning

random debris / Gunsight, my favorite run at Mt. Baker.


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## cb1021 (Nov 21, 2010)

THe most important is to be stoked, whatever you ride or however you ride. 

Forget the confidence thing, work on being a more competent rider. At first it's difficult to handle speed so people spend a lot of their ride controlling/shaving off speed. But as you're able to handle more speed, you can make better carves because your attack angle is not against the terrain (you are riding down the hill, not across). Also with rocks in the way, you need to plan your line before you drop so you don't have to work slowly down the hill. You examine the line, see where are the danger points are, where you can flat out and where you need to do a big carve to get rid of speed.


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## linvillegorge (Jul 6, 2009)

Slush Puppie said:


> As Snowwolf says, there's no reason not to make controlled turns when it gets steep and narrow(45deg/3m in this case). But it's definitely easier on perfect snow.
> 
> I would love to ride where the vid was shot though


Not sure what it looks like below that chute, but if it's a big wide open slope I'd probably just Xavier De La Rue that chute and then lay down a big, sweeping, powder slinging turn across the slope.


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## Slush Puppie (Aug 15, 2011)

> Not sure what it looks like below that chute, but if it's a big wide open slope I'd probably just Xavier De La Rue that chute and then lay down a big, sweeping, powder slinging turn across the slope.


Like the sound of it but... Probably not _quite_ what you had in mind? (see pic)  But even with the runout you describe, I'm not at that level anyway(_relative_ beginner). I was just stoked to be riding something like that full stop (and to get down it cleanly). Still stoked about it now in fact  Feels like a milestone in my riding. 

So I'll leave you and Xavier to straightlining the steeps (for now)


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## goalieman24 (Aug 28, 2009)

I'd hardly consider the initial video a "steep chute". That guy could pretty much ride wherever he wanted. Normally, when you talk about chutes, you're either jump-turning or pointing it straight... much more like the picture wrath posted at the top of this page.


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## Noreaster (Oct 7, 2012)

wrathfuldeity said:


> a chute i want to do this winter....no turning
> 
> random debris / Gunsight, my favorite run at Mt. Baker.


It looks... like a Christmas present. All neat and tempting. Good luck.


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## danm (Jan 16, 2010)

wrathfuldeity said:


> yup pics flatten things out. a chute i want to do this winter....no turning
> 
> random debris / Gunsight, my favorite run at Mt. Baker.


Straight up G-Rush... I need to make it up to Baker... too bad it's ALL the way across the damn state


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## AIRider (Dec 25, 2010)

So I had some steeps to practice with last week, and although I struggled at times, I tried maintaining somewhat of an edge, before having to stop uphill and do an 180, and repeat.


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## snowklinger (Aug 30, 2011)

Sincraft said:


> This goes back to an earlier post of mine. Riding down nice powder covered blacks, only to have them turn into a mogul field 2 hour laters because, people that have NO right on being on those steeps create those moguls from making very sharp dynamic turns on skis to avoid the speed. Well, then why not ski blues and leave the terrain at least somewhat rideable, or at least make wide turns!
> 
> Sigh



Moguls happen naturally, nobody is DOING that. Deep snow terrain in-bounds gets open, u get a couple hours and then its moguls until the next snow.

Ever seen anyone out there MAKING moguls? Yea its called everyone with an edge on a fresh day, including me on a snowboard.


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## linvillegorge (Jul 6, 2009)

Yep, moguls are just the mountain's way of telling you too many people have skied/ridden here.


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## poutanen (Dec 22, 2011)

AIRider said:


> So I had some steeps to practice with last week, and although I struggled at times, I tried maintaining somewhat of an edge, before having to stop uphill and do an 180, and repeat.


Good show! It does take a lot out of you, so nothing wrong with doing some good turns, then taking a break to catch your breath. Better than sideslipping the whole way down...

I've been on runs similar to that at Kicking Horse, and steeper ones at Fernie. You obviously can't ride them as you would something with a 25-30 degree slope unless there's been a MASSIVE powder dump.

There's one run at Fernie that has a very narrow entrance (similar to what wrathfuldeity posted) but after about a 30 ft 45 deg chute it opens up REAL wide and mellows to probably 35-40 degrees for several hundred feet. That's the only place I've ever comfortably "carved" on such a steep slope... I bought a helmet cam again so I'll have to get some videos of some of the bowl entrances I keep talking about on here! :yahoo:


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## grafta (Dec 21, 2009)

That first vid (OP) does look pretty bumpy. You see him get a bit of air off a bump as he exits the chute. Imagine if he had've tried bombing it :laugh:

I def think the vid does it no justice. From the way he's riding it looks pretty steep... and yeah, bumps. Sure if it was fresh it'd be different.

Had a situation the other day where my buddy was dropping a spot, and I thought it'd be good idea too. I got to the drop and realised the runout looked sketchy and I didn't like the idea of a tomahawk right then so I had to ride it out rather than get some air. Sometimes you end up in those situations and can't be elegant. More survival tactics than anything. Should I have stuck to terrain I know I can ride well? No. Gotta push yourself!

Anyway...


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## AIRider (Dec 25, 2010)

Here's a "goal" video for me! these guys seem a little more efficient in riding chutes! 






1:35 to 1:50 is what I need to improve, going toe/heel really smooth. When I do it, it's very choppy, and doesn't look elegant.


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## grafta (Dec 21, 2009)

AIRider said:


> Here's a "goal" video for me! these guys seem a little more efficient in riding chutes!


That guy is riding really dynamically.... and lots of pow. Pretty different from tracked out bumps


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## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

AIRider said:


> Here's a "goal" video for me! these guys seem a little more efficient in riding chutes!


the thing about the above vid...its all about hitting it when the snow conditions are great....when its great snow and you got good visibility anything is doable. The gunsite chute pic at baker is early and not filled in...for me...I will wait til the conditions are perfect, before I'll try it and hopefully get first track


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## poutanen (Dec 22, 2011)

AIRider said:


> Here's a "goal" video for me! these guys seem a little more efficient in riding chutes!
> 
> 1:35 to 1:50 is what I need to improve, going toe/heel really smooth. When I do it, it's very choppy, and doesn't look elegant.


Yeah, TONS of snow and some of the early runs didn't seem that steep. Possibly in the 30-35 degree range which is really fun in chute terms. 45 deg+ is where it starts to feel like mountain climbing instead of boarding! 

The 1:30-1:50 stuff just takes practice. Get out on powder days on open pistes and work really hard on short quick carves. No need to learn that with cliffs and rocks nearby!

Cool video though, this is one of those cases where the pole mount really helps what they're trying to show...


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## sabatoa (Jan 18, 2011)

Before I comment, full disclosure:

I'm an intermediate rider, I like riding "steep" Michigan blacks and have zero experience with anything out west yet or chutes. So I might be talking out of my ass here.

As he approached and entered the chute I'd probably handle it the way he did. Feel my way through it and make it out. But once he cleared the chute he was wide open and really could have opened up the throttle and had some sweet turns. 

I would have pointed my nose down and had some fun with that, the snow looked great.


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## ShredLife (Feb 6, 2010)

the first video is how not to do it. the guy is riding like its the last run of the day - or he's just out of shape. he isn't bending his knees! he's riding standing up, stiff legged, throwing his center of gravity from toeside to heel thru his stood up torso :dizzy: its crap riding. he's falling over and grabbing onto the hill on every third turn...

the second video is how to do it, regardless of the conditions. take it down the fall line, not back and forth all swishy swashy across the whole area... i'm not saying you can't bleed of speed - watch the second video, they turn completely sideways to have total control over speed when they need to - you don't need POW to ride like that. every time they're going perpendicular to the fall line and either stopping or getting that face shot you can do that on fucking ice, you can do that on top of moguls, you can do it in a box with a fox wearing sox. 

the key is to do it using your legs, bending your knees, and keeping your upper body centered and quiet. you can lean way over and drag a hand on a huge high-speed pow turn, but you should be centered in an athletic position and moving pretty much down the fall line - even if you do have to sideslip a part or something.


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## AIRider (Dec 25, 2010)

So much great info here!! Thank you all! This is why I love this forum, everyone's pitching in with ideas, techniques and tips. Love it. 

Now, off to the mountain to find some steeps and practice...


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## linvillegorge (Jul 6, 2009)

Snowolf said:


> Lastly, when things start to go to shit on you......BEND SOMETHING!


Probably the best riding advice ever - and one of the hardest, most unnatural things to do. When your mind is screaming to lock your legs, that exactly when you need to be loose and bend those knees. It's a bad habit I still catch myself doing sometimes, especially when I'm tired and need to hang it up for the day.


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## t21 (Dec 29, 2010)

Originally posted by *Snowolf*
Lastly, when things start to go to shit on you......BEND SOMETHING![/QUOTE]

i concur this advice! when i suddenly hit an ice patch, i bend down or unweight. that saved me a ton from crashing:yahoo:


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## deeppowder (Nov 27, 2012)

Having grown up with my dad being a skier, I board and ski, but there have been lots of times he has taken me down some narrow shoots when im boarding that are much more favorable to be on ski's. I thought the guy could have made some smoother turns when it opened up a little.


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## kswissreject (Feb 26, 2009)

Snowolf said:


> Remember:
> 
> Flexion and extension and their timing:
> 
> Get as low as you can possibly get ( make it hurt a little) and retract the front leg as you shift forward. Extend through apex to increase edge pressure then as you shift aft, retract that rear leg to get low through completion.


I think I get everything except this. I guess the question is, how do you down unweight for the edge change if you are already low at the completion of the turn?


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## Kevin.Brock (Jan 5, 2013)

AIRider said:


> Here's a "goal" video for me! these guys seem a little more efficient in riding chutes!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Am I the only one that thought his face was straight out of a horror movie at 2:57 lol


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## AIRider (Dec 25, 2010)

Kevin.Brock said:


> Am I the only one that thought his face was straight out of a horror movie at 2:57 lol


Haha true!


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## t21 (Dec 29, 2010)

on that second vid.around 2:50 was some tight run between rocks but that too is what i strive for on real narrow steeps and chutes. on OP's vid,have anyone notice two boarders sitting on the middle of that run??


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