# How often do skiers/snowboarders colide into each other?



## gprider_capita (Feb 17, 2011)

No

10character


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## slyder (Jan 18, 2010)

Don't worry about it too much. Yes it does happen by both types of riders and very little kids are the worst. They bomb, no control, don't know how to turn yet and can take you out from behind. This can also happen with boarders.

I wouldn't say they are common but they do happen and usually everyone gets up and walks away just fine.

Don't avoid runs for fear of getting slammed, avoid them do to your ability. You will progress and have more fun trying more advanced runs, again, within your ability. If your mainly a Green rider and you find a mellow blue, give it a shot. I wouldn't try an aggressive blue till you feel comfortable. Small progressions and you'll keep enjoying the sport.


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## poutanen (Dec 22, 2011)

In 19 years of snowboarding I've had one collision with another person, that was my best friend and we were flying beside each other. I'm goofy and he's regular, and he was on my back side facing away from me. To make things worse the right side of my goggle was fogged.

Needless to say it's quite rare! 

Actually generally the bigger the mountain the less crowded the actual runs are.


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## handscreate (Jan 17, 2012)

I don't think it matters how good you are, people fall and collisions happen. Your best bet is to make sure you are always riding in control, even if that means going slow(er) until you have the skills to control yourself. Yes, people ride/ski the mountain who don't ride in control, but people also drive cars who don't have control or the skills to control their car all the time. Be aware of your surroundings & know that it's the responsibility of the person behind you to avoid colliding with you. And if you do fall, or decide you need a break while riding down a run, try to move to the side so you're not a hazard to yourself and others coming down behind you. 

In the end, have fun & enjoy your time on the mountain. If you feel like you don't yet have adequate control of your board, consider a lesson or 2. It will help build your skill & confidence on the mountain.


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## Winston (Mar 27, 2012)

Ok good answers. Now I wont feel as intimidated to try snowboarding down the big mountain. I was picturing snowboarding being brutally competitive like roller derby.


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## poutanen (Dec 22, 2011)

Winston said:


> Ok good answers. Now I wont feel as intimidated to try snowboarding down the big mountain. I was picturing snowboarding being brutally competitive like roller derby.


Here's a pic I took this year of one of the bowls in Fernie. If you look real close you might be able to make out a person or two. Generally it's a very peaceful, private experience, which is why you'll find a good portion of us actually like riding alone.


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## rustydomino (Jan 3, 2008)

The gotdamn gapers are the worst. I often go riding with my daughter (11 years old, her second full season). She's just linking turns and gotten enough confidence to ride the "big lift" to the top of the mountain. I've taken to just heel-sliding about 10 feet uphill of her just to keep the gapers at bay. I don't mind that people are n00bs, everyone has been a n00b before. But if you're a gotdamn n00b have the common courtesy to stick to the bunny hill until you can at least turn (i'm not even talking about linking turns, just a basic fucking turn to get out of the way). I myself am Asian and I hate to stereotype, but it's the gotdamn weekend Asian gapers that drive in from LA that are the worst. They get decked out in rental ski gear, have absolutely no idea what they are doing, and figure to get their money's worth they should ride to the top of the mountain and just bomb down the hill. You can tell that they're the LA Asian gaper crowd because they usually don't start showing up on the runs until late afternoon.

That being said, we've never actually gotten into a collision with a gaper mostly due to our vigilance and sheer good luck (we've had some close calls). THe only actual collision we've had was with a teenager snowboarder who was bombing down the hill with very little awareness of people around him. He sideswiped my daughter at full speed and seriously knocked the wind out of her. It was a big scare for us but luckily nothing bad happened.

tl;dr: don't be an asshole on the slopes, and watch your own six.


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## firstx1017 (Jan 10, 2011)

This being my second season I have had my share of people running into me. My husband is usually like you are - behind me running interference and blocking people from me. However, as hard as he has tried I have had four 20 year old guys running into me as they are bombing down the hill out of control. I just was missed by a guy last weekend who was going the fastest I have seen out of control and missed me by about a foot - I swear, if he hit me full on as fast as he was going I'm not sure I would still be here today. Major trauma if he would have hit me. I've read this year about people dying from being hit by an out of control snowboarder and I was skeptical - but not now. 

My husband has been boarding for 5 years and has not been hit yet - I think there is a target on my back that I don't see!!!!


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## firstx1017 (Jan 10, 2011)

Here's a video of 2 of my small crashes from last year.


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## snowklinger (Aug 30, 2011)

Get The Fuck Out Of The Way!


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## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

In 9/10 years, I've clipped a couple of skiers...riding over their tails, been knocked down by a couple of intermediate level boarders, have almost taken out 2 boarders (narrowly missing them by less than a foot) while bombing and have had 1 solid collision with a skier bud. And a countless number of near misses. One time, where the trails crosses this noob sees me coming and I do the avoidance measures and he keeps looking/focusing on me and damm near takes me out. Its a damm roller derby out there. 

Thus OP if you think you might crash into someone...DO NOT look at them...but look to where you can avoid them. If there is a collission, always stop and make sure each other is ok and call patrol if there are any injuries. You can't control other peoples' behavior but there is/or should be some common sense/courtsey...its not worth getting injured or injuring another. Yes there are douche bags and you will learn to recognize them...and hopefully you will be able to go ride gnar stashes while they piss around on the groomers being a hazzard.


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## john doe (Nov 6, 2009)

The bunny slope is the place you are by far the most likely to have a collision.


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## LuckyRVA (Jan 18, 2011)

wrathfuldeity said:


> Thus OP if you think you might crash into someone...DO NOT look at them...but look to where you can avoid them.


Total agreement here. 

As an aside, you're thinking about it too much. Grow a sack and get off the bunny hill.


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## Argo (Feb 25, 2010)

My wife has had a couple collisions. I have never had one and my son has never had one. 

They do happen and we have had quite a few broken bones in surgery from them. Trees and cliffs seem to be a bigger problem though, add lift towers and shacks to tha too.

You can help avoid them too. Be consistent with your riding. When coming from behind you a a decent speed people will follow your pattern to pass you. If you do something like cutting across the main trail without looking you will be likely to get popped on a busy day. Same goes for when green trails pass across black or blues, look up the trail before crossing..... I see people all the time just riding out like a dumbass and getting slammed. The one big hit my wife took was someone flying out of the trees, she had white on and I was a really snowy day. She got hit in similar conditions with white on a couple times and tossed everything white.....


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## Casual (Feb 9, 2011)

poutanen said:


> In 19 years of snowboarding I've had one collision with another person, that was my best friend and we were flying beside each other. I'm goofy and he's regular, and he was on my back side facing away from me. To make things worse the right side of my goggle was fogged.
> 
> Needless to say it's quite rare!
> 
> Actually generally the bigger the mountain the less crowded the actual runs are.


LOL! I had the same thing happen to me with my best friend at Fernie - but he was 220lbs and I was 150lbs, we both saw each other on a toeside carve at mach 10 and tried to stop, we came together toe to toe and I got rocked... my toes hit the ends of my boots so hard I lost my big toenails a month later!

Thats the only real collision I've ever had in 24 years... never hit a skiier on a slope, but wanted to hit a few in the lift line!


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## BoardWalk (Mar 22, 2011)

firstx1017 said:


> Here's a video of 2 of my small crashes from last year.



It looks like people are just trying to get to know you.


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## Whoracle (Feb 6, 2012)

I was out with a group of 6-7 people, and 2 of our guys collided so hard that the edge of the guys board cut through the cables on the other guys K2 Cinches. Ive ran into skiiers on accident before, but i swear to god some of them are so good at staying RIGHT in front of you no matter how you turn they must have eyes in the back of their head. Also gotta love it when people (boarder/skiiers equally) ride right infront of you then stop.


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## poutanen (Dec 22, 2011)

Argo said:


> You can help avoid them too. Be consistent with your riding. When coming from behind you a a decent speed people will follow your pattern to pass you. If you do something like cutting across the main trail without looking you will be likely to get popped on a busy day. Same goes for when green trails pass across black or blues, look up the trail before crossing..... I see people all the time just riding out like a dumbass and getting slammed. The one big hit my wife took was someone flying out of the trees, she had white on and I was a really snowy day. She got hit in similar conditions with white on a couple times and tossed everything white.....


Yeah this is huge. I'll admit I'm one of the people that rides on the ragged edge of control, and I'm usually flying. Generally beginner or intermediate skiers/riders will stick to the centre of a run, and I can fly down either side. The problem is with the treeline to treeline people who make it a bit of a guessing game what they're going to do next. Then I just have to give up my run and slow down until I pass them.

Oh yeah, I bought bright orange pants a few years ago as a joke (think blaze orange hunting pants). And I've never been hit... Bright contrasting colours might not help, but they don't hurt!



Casual said:


> LOL! I had the same thing happen to me with my best friend at Fernie - but he was 220lbs and I was 150lbs, we both saw each other on a toeside carve at mach 10 and tried to stop, we came together toe to toe and I got rocked... my toes hit the ends of my boots so hard I lost my big toenails a month later!


Yeah my buddy and I saw each other at the last second but it was too late! I was about 175 pounds at the time and he was 130 or so. He didn't ride again for a long time. We both had bad headaches for the drive home, and I bought a helmet shortly after that. Our other buddy was behind and saw it and said it was like watching a car crash in slow mo! :laugh:

It's funny how it's usually your buddies that you hit, and when you're riding with your buddies that you get hurt (this is especially true in the sportbike world). I think people are better off riding solo most of the time! I know I get an adrenaline boost if people are watching me from the run or from the lift, and I usually get to the bottom and say "WTF did I do that for?"


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## poutanen (Dec 22, 2011)

firstx1017 said:


> Here's a video of 2 of my small crashes from last year.


WTF!!! The first one it looked like the guy was learning and was a little clueless! Like he was toe sliding but looking towards the tip of his board instead of the direction he was going. The second one the guy was clearly too close and clipped you. He's 100% at fault!


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## Kauila (Jan 7, 2011)

The worst area is the yellow "slow" zone where all the trails merge at the bottom but most of the snowboarders are trying to carry their speed so they don't have to unstrap and skate to the lift line. Snowboarders carrying speed + noob skiers/snowboarders = bad combination. 

If you see someone wearing jeans being taught to snowboard by their friend => avoid that person.

Yell out "on your left" or "on your right" when passing. I yell loudly enough assuming that that person has an earbud or two in their ears.

Now that my son and I are competent riders, we ride at places like Alpine where there are fewer green runs thus fewer inexperienced riders/parents teaching their kids, etc. on the trails.


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## linvillegorge (Jul 6, 2009)

poutanen said:


> WTF!!! The first one it looked like the guy was learning and was a little clueless! Like he was toe sliding but looking towards the tip of his board instead of the direction he was going. The second one the guy was clearly too close and clipped you. He's 100% at fault!


Both were clearly the other person's fault, but she has to realize that she has a bad habit of traversing the full run without looking. Sure, being on the downhill side means you have the right of way, but like I was telling a buddy in downtown Denver who was about to walk out in front of a car turning right on red when we had the green light to walk - right of way won't make you any less ran the fuck over.


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## Donutz (May 12, 2010)

linvillegorge said:


> right of way won't make you any less ran the fuck over.


:thumbsup:

Or as I like to say, there's very little consolation in being dead right.


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## handscreate (Jan 17, 2012)

Whoracle said:


> I was out with a group of 6-7 people, and 2 of our guys collided so hard that the edge of the guys board cut through the cables on the other guys K2 Cinches. Ive ran into skiiers on accident before, but i swear to god some of them are so good at staying RIGHT in front of you no matter how you turn they must have eyes in the back of their head. Also gotta love it when people (boarder/skiiers equally) ride right infront of you then stop.


Haha, seriously! I always try to get in front of people who constantly ride/ski right in front of me. I've slowed down in the past, and even stopped a few times, to allow more space between us, but I feel like there are some that recognize this & slow down or stop along with me. The worst hands down are the few skiers & boarders who have cut in front of me, only to stop almost immediately, leaving me to bail or make a semi-dangerous move to avoid taking them out. The worst part is that technically it would be my fault if I did, since I was uphill from them at the time of collision. 

I think I've only hit 1 person who fell right in front me. I've been hit by 2 skiers & 2 snowboarders from behind. The boarders & 1 skier were noobs who shouldn't have been on the Blue/Black run I was on. The other skier was looking uphill at his kid as he was teaching his kid to ride - doing a "are you watching me" kind of thing. He was the biggest douche about it too & claimed I was at fault for turning into his fall line. Is it really too much to ask for a 5ft bubble? 



firstx1017 said:


> Here's a video of 2 of my small crashes from last year.


Both of these accidents were the other persons fault. Sorry you keep getting tagged like that. I would suggest in the future looking uphill as you traverse the run/trail to see if anyone is coming straight for you so you have a chance to stop or slow down if needed. Regardless, these guys should have slowed or stopped to avoid the collision.


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## poutanen (Dec 22, 2011)

linvillegorge said:


> Both were clearly the other person's fault, but she has to realize that she has a bad habit of traversing the full run without looking. Sure, being on the downhill side means you have the right of way, but like I was telling a buddy in downtown Denver who was about to walk out in front of a car turning right on red when we had the green light to walk - right of way won't make you any less ran the fuck over.


There's two problems I have with that. If you start saying that you should be looking uphill while traversing, it's telling them to do something other than concentrate on where they're going. Second, the uphill guy going mostly with the direction of the snow is going to be the more experienced board than the newb traversing, and regardless of the alpine code should be the one checking his speed or making a judgement call and turning elsewhere.

I'm the first one to get pissed if somebody's back and forth across the whole run, but at the same time I know it's 100% my fault if I hit them from behind.

We start changing the rules and we're all going to have to learn to board differently.

As long as you're watching where you're going, there's technically nothing wrong with traversing back and forth as part of the learning process. Now that said, entering a trail from a merge or from the woods, it is in the code that it's your duty to look up and yield to somebody on the trail.


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## Argo (Feb 25, 2010)

poutanen said:


> There's two problems I have with that. If you start saying that you should be looking uphill while traversing, it's telling them to do something other than concentrate on where they're going. Second, the uphill guy going mostly with the direction of the snow is going to be the more experienced board than the newb traversing, and regardless of the alpine code should be the one checking his speed or making a judgement call and turning elsewhere.
> 
> I'm the first one to get pissed if somebody's back and forth across the whole run, but at the same time I know it's 100% my fault if I hit them from behind.
> 
> ...



This is bad logic. That's like teaching someone to throw a blinker on while cruising down the highway and just change lanes without looking because its so obvious that no one would ever haul ass up behind them and tag their ass at 80. 

You need to always pay attention to what's going on around you. Just because the uphill person will be at fault who cares. Your gonna end up hurt because the uphill guy will have all the inertia.


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## ilikecoupons (Jan 20, 2012)

I've been snowboarding for 2 years, and I've only collided with another snowboarder once. Granted, it was being COMPLETELY railed from behind by an asian fob (he totaled my Evo and it was the first day I was riding it!), but I think there's a stat somewhere that says that you're safer snowboarding on the mountain than you are driving.



Kauila said:


> Now that my son and I are competent riders, we ride at places like Alpine where there are fewer green runs thus fewer inexperienced riders/parents teaching their kids, etc. on the trails.


I feel like this is not 100% true, because many of the collisions I see and the one I was in was caused by an experienced snowboarder doing his business on the sides of the run because the inside being so congested and then a gaper who is bombing the edge with no control because he can't maneuver in the center runs into the experienced guy. I think more of the collisions happen because one of the two are out of their depth.


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## poutanen (Dec 22, 2011)

Argo said:


> This is bad logic. That's like teaching someone to throw a blinker on while cruising down the highway and just change lanes without looking because its so obvious that no one would ever haul ass up behind them and tag their ass at 80.
> 
> You need to always pay attention to what's going on around you. Just because the uphill person will be at fault who cares. Your gonna end up hurt because the uphill guy will have all the inertia.


Yeah I was actually thinking of the driving analogy while I was typing the last post. You can't compare a multi lane road and a ski run, a run is more like a single lane road with a shoulder on either side. It's up to the guy coming from behind to decide if/when it's safe to pass.

Are you guys suggesting that a newb trying to do a falling leaf should be looking uphill? They'll never progress! I know what you guys are getting at, look around you as you turn to try to avoid the impact, but the most important thing to stress is... stay the F^&* in control if you're the one passing!

My GFs getting to the point now where she's passing people on most blue runs. She's been complaining a bit about the toddlers snowplowing back and forth across the run. I tell her every time, it's HER responsibility not to hit them. 

In a perfect world we'd all board/ski the same speed, everybody would already know how to do it, and we wouldn't have this problem. But saying that people need to look back uphill while they're turning puts some of the onus back on them which to me sets a bad standard.

edit: I just went back and watched the video again on page 1. The more violent of the two crashes, she was on her heelside facing 100% downhill going right. Are you guys seriously saying she should be looking uphill at this point? Seriously? The only way for her to avoid this type of crash again is for a) the douch to slow the F^&* down or b) for her to never ride again


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## handscreate (Jan 17, 2012)

Kauila said:


> Now that my son and I are competent riders, we ride at places like Alpine where there are fewer green runs thus fewer inexperienced riders/parents teaching their kids, etc. on the trails.


I respectfully disagree with this statement. I've seen some gnarly crashes occur on all terrain levels, but some of the worst on blues & blacks, likely due to people trying to advance to more technical terrain & not having the skill set to take it on properly. I have also seen a lot of skiers & snowboarders bombing blue, black & double black with less concern for others on the run, either because they're dicks or because the terrain requires more concentration & focus to get down. It's these folks that are bombing & not looking out for others that I've seen get into a collision with others on the mountain. Almost always it's the person uphills actual fault because they were riding too close to the person downhill & should have given them more space to make their turns, etc. 

I'd say your chances are 50/50 of running into idiots who are technically or in reality out of control on higher level terrain. Yes, more accidents occur on greens than anything else due to the lack of skill usually found there, but the gnarlier accidents occur on the more technical stuff - at least that's what I've seen.


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## metoo (Mar 7, 2012)

john doe said:


> The bunny slope is the place you are by far the most likely to have a collision.


Agreed. There are lots of downed riders to run over/avoid and lots of kids that or either too slow, out of control, or in control but without any since of courtesy.

I too am newbie. When going done the slopes I try to make predictable movements while working on my basics. I'll even signal at times before I make a cut. This is all to help minimize collisions from behind me. I find a good set of high-peripheral-vision goggles helps...e.g. Fishbowls or EG2s. There's less head turning to see your surroundings.


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## Argo (Feb 25, 2010)

Now your just trying to make it all about that one crash. The OP asked a question and my advice is pay attention to what is going on around you if you want to avoid as many as possible. 

Great she is heel side now but when she was toe side to avoid a possible collision she could have paid more attention uphill. Not saying anything was in any way her fault. The guys was out pf control but be a more offensive rider than thinking everyone knows or cares about the rules....


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## JamesCLN87 (Feb 15, 2012)

I agree with the point of view that even though it's technically the rider behind you who's responsible for not hitting you that's not much condolence if someone slams into you and you end up getting hurt, I try to be as aware of my surrounds as possible, I don't listen to music when I board, I try to keep an eye on what's going on above me if I am making wider/slower turns to practice, and always checking if there's a bunch of people strapping in behind me just as I take off. I try to hit the quieter runs too, one cause I don't want to be holding more advanced riders up and two because there's less traffic. I only started this season but I did 75% of my boarding on Mondays and Tuesdays and it was easy to find quieter runs etc. 

Despite all of this I still have come close to being taken out a few times, I was at Timberline yesterday and I had a few near brushes with people bombing down the blues, I was going relatively quick, quick enough that most people weren't going to catch me but there's always someone really flying and they can sneak up on you if you're concentrating on your own riding. I noticed yesterday a few people were shouting which side they were passing on which was perfect I could make sure not to be turning that way etc. but others the first you hear of them is the whoosh as they fly past you. It's a tricky area because everyone is entitled to board the way they want, people like me who are new to the sport who are practicing turning etc. and maybe not going as fast as some people would like and advanced riders who want to go down runs at mach speed. 

I personally have found Blue runs the most dangerous, I notice people who can barely get down a green are deathly afraid of blacks but think Blues are fair game, and since it's a lot easier to pick up speed on a blue you notice a lot more people out of control. Likewise a lot of resorts have more blue terrain than black so you get a lot of advanced riders zooming down (maybe they branch off a black onto a blue etc.). Unfortunately they are also the runs I enjoy the most so what can you do  

I just wish people waited till they were confident enough in their control before trying more challenging runs, once I got to the level where I felt I was able to deal with anything I ran into (be it steeper terrain, tight turning, people falling in front of me etc.) I started venturing onto Blues etc. The reason a lot of people panic is a lack of faith in their own control I think! And that's how people get hurt or hurt others!


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## Donutz (May 12, 2010)

Argo said:


> This is bad logic. That's like teaching someone to throw a blinker on while cruising down the highway and just change lanes without looking because its so obvious that no one would ever haul ass up behind them and tag their ass at 80.
> 
> You need to always pay attention to what's going on around you. Just because the uphill person will be at fault who cares. Your gonna end up hurt because the uphill guy will have all the inertia.


I think poutanen is talking more about degree of responsibility rather than what you should or should not be doing. Your analogy is flawed because the person changing lanes _doesn't_ have the right of way. In fact, the person already in the lane is not legally obligated to be watching for the lane changer or to slow down to make room for them. If there's an accident, it's entirely the lane changer's fault unless someone can show evidence that the person in the lane did something wrong.

Rules don't cover all contingencies, whether you're talking about alpine responsibility or lane changing or rear-ending. But they're kept simple so that you don't have to go through a complicated decision tree when a situation develops. If you're the uphill rider, the downhill rider has the right of way. Period. Whether or not it makes sense in some extreme situation. Nice and simple.


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## Kauila (Jan 7, 2011)

handscreate said:


> I respectfully disagree with this statement. I've seen some gnarly crashes occur on all terrain levels, but some of the worst on blues & blacks, likely due to people trying to advance to more technical terrain & not having the skill set to take it on properly. I have also seen a lot of skiers & snowboarders bombing blue, black & double black with less concern for others on the run, either because they're dicks or because the terrain requires more concentration & focus to get down. It's these folks that are bombing & not looking out for others that I've seen get into a collision with others on the mountain. Almost always it's the person uphills actual fault because they were riding too close to the person downhill & should have given them more space to make their turns, etc.
> 
> I'd say your chances are 50/50 of running into idiots who are technically or in reality out of control on higher level terrain. Yes, more accidents occur on greens than anything else due to the lack of skill usually found there, but the gnarlier accidents occur on the more technical stuff - at least that's what I've seen.


Well, you have a point there. I guess what I was trying to say was, assholes and idiots will be assholes and idiots regardless of location; we just try to pick our places to ride where there's a likelihood that there will be fewer of them, and like some other posters have mentioned, in less congested areas, although YMMV :laugh:


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## firstx1017 (Jan 10, 2011)

Well, I will give a little more info in my video I posted. It is from my first year and only 2 months from my first time on a board. This is a total green run so should only have beginners on the run. As you can see, I had the run to myself - the resort had just opened. There was no one around me and then out of nowhere came this guy - who was facing downhill and should have been able to see me as I was the only one on the run. After he knocked me down my husband says I can't believe it, you were the only one on the mountain and he HAD to run into you! I was working on some tips that snowolf had given me about traversing across the hill and that is why I was traveling across the hill - ALL BY MYSELF. This particular run is very popular and many experienced boarders go like a bat out of hell down it when it is a green run and they have an audio with speakers on the run stating this is a slow slidding run only. There are other blue runs and diamond runs for the experienced riders. I normally look all around when on a busy run - but I was the only one around me until this guy came out of nowhere - yet many here think I was in the wrong and should have looked uphill? I disagree. 

I have gotten better and can now pass others, yet I know when on that run that it is a beginner run and skiers with classes go down this run and are traversing across the hill all the time along with the snowboard classes - yet "I" haven't run into anyone..... go figure.....must be because "I" am paying attention to others around me.....


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## srdeo (Jan 29, 2012)

Although i don't think the crash was no one's fault, I think one traversing has to watch out just as much as someone bombing down the hill. It's one thing to take 20 feet to make a turn, it's another thing to take the whole hill. It's like driving. If you are changing lane you have to watch out to make sure you have enough room. Having said that the guy bombing down should have seen you since you were not moving that fast. He did not look like he was in that much of control tho (prob beginner/intermediate) so maybe he just did not have enough control to slow down fast enough. I think it was nobodys fault, just two different style. One taking big turns and one that like to go straight. You have to understand you are sharing runs with other people with different riding or skiing style. When you are taking up the whole width of the run you also have to watch out since you are not leaving much room for other people.

Plus everyone loses in a crash. no matter whose fault it is.


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## poutanen (Dec 22, 2011)

srdeo said:


> You have to understand you are sharing runs with other people with different riding or skiing style. When you are taking up the whole width of the run you also have to watch out since you are not leaving much room for other people.


I've been doing a LOT of riding for a LOT of years (skied for 6 before snowboarding too) and I can honestly say that's just wrong. Yes it's tougher to pass someone who's traversing, and I think it's better to teach people to make controlled turns every 10-20 meters or so. This doesn't change the fact that the uphill person has responsibility. This has nothing to do with style, how wide the traverses are, etc.

You're passing somebody? You're job not to hit them.

When you guys walk down the sidewalk do you look behind you to make sure a jogger doesn't hit you? :dunno:


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## srdeo (Jan 29, 2012)

poutanen said:


> I've been doing a LOT of riding for a LOT of years (skied for 6 before snowboarding too) and I can honestly say that's just wrong. Yes it's tougher to pass someone who's traversing, and I think it's better to teach people to make controlled turns every 10-20 meters or so. This doesn't change the fact that the uphill person has responsibility. This has nothing to do with style, how wide the traverses are, etc.
> 
> You're passing somebody? You're job not to hit them.
> 
> When you guys walk down the sidewalk do you look behind you to make sure a jogger doesn't hit you? :dunno:


I am not saying it's her fault and i agree one coming from behind is probably more responsible. What I am saying is when she traverse like that, she has to know it increases risk so she should watch out little more. When i make a hard sharp carving turn i make sure i don't cut anyone off. I think she was going slow enough that the guy should have seen her, but like she said she was on a green run and it looked like he was not that good either. So maybe he just didnt have enough time to react or hit a bump or ice patch to throw him off. When you traverse you have to be more aware of your surroundings regardless of whose fault the crash is.

Plus she kinda put herself in their blind spot. they were going straight and she crawled into their blind spot. they would not have seen her coming since she came from their back. she could see them but they could not see her coming from the side. Kinda like goofy rider not seeing regular rider.

I think this is actually why skiers and boarders have had problem sharing a hill skiers tends to go straighter(so slightly faster) than boarders so boarders feel like skiers are running into them. On the other hand skiers feel like boarders are cutting them off. We have to learn to share to a point and try to avoid one that is out of control and overly aggressive.

When you drive, you always try to avoid that aggressive driver and let them go even if you know it's their fault if there were an accident. Same goes in riding, kinda like defensive driving. You could get hurt if there is a crash so be aware of surroundings and try to avoid the ones that are out of control.



As far as walking on the sidewalk, if i am walking across (traversing) sidewalk i make sure i don't run into anyone. if you were walking straight i would not look behind me to check for joggers, but if i was going across, i check.


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## firstx1017 (Jan 10, 2011)

Geez, let me see, when you start down a run and look down and see there is ONE boarder in front of you, and about 100 yards into the run you run INTO that person because all of a sudden she is in your "blind" spot - that is not his fault???? This is a fairly straight run and you can see about 300 yards down the hill before it curves out of sight from the top of the chairlift. He is starting down the hill AFTER me and should know there is ONE person he should watch out for - doesn't matter if I would be in his blind spot - what are the chances him not paying attention that whole time so that he would be that close to me to be in his "blind" spot before he hits me? When I go down a run with only one person in front of me - do I try to see how "close" I can get to them so that there would be a possibility of them being in my blind spot - that's just not smart riding - guess that's what you want us to be????? What a joke!



srdeo said:


> Plus she kinda put herself in their blind spot. they were going straight and she crawled into their blind spot. they would not have seen her coming since she came from their back. she could see them but they could not see her coming from the side. Kinda like goofy rider not seeing regular rider.


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## handscreate (Jan 17, 2012)

srdeo said:


> Plus she kinda put herself in their blind spot. they were going straight and she crawled into their blind spot. they would not have seen her coming since she came from their back. she could see them but they could not see her coming from the side. Kinda like goofy rider not seeing regular rider.
> 
> 
> As far as walking on the sidewalk, if i am walking across (traversing) sidewalk i make sure i don't run into anyone. if you were walking straight i would not look behind me to check for joggers, but if i was going across, i check.


I respectfully disagree. Being downhill from both of these other snowboarders, how could she possibly be in their blind-spot(s), regardless of whatever edge they were on coming towards her? If anything, she can claim that they were in fact in her blind-spot as she was traversing the run. Alpine code clearly states that the person uphill must avoid the person downhill of them. I'm sorry, but I'm aware of everything & everyone in front of me as I go down the hill. I am usually aware of things behind me too, but sometimes they creep up on you out of nowhere. 

As far as the sidewalk goes, I run a couple times a week usually & rarely does anyone look behind them before walking all over & across the sidewalk - even when I call out "on your left".


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## linvillegorge (Jul 6, 2009)

firstx1017 said:


> Geez, let me see, when you start down a run and look down and see there is ONE boarder in front of you, and about 100 yards into the run you run INTO that person because all of a sudden she is in your "blind" spot - that is not his fault???? This is a fairly straight run and you can see about 300 yards down the hill before it curves out of sight from the top of the chairlift. He is starting down the hill AFTER me and should know there is ONE person he should watch out for - doesn't matter if I would be in his blind spot - what are the chances him not paying attention that whole time so that he would be that close to me to be in his "blind" spot before he hits me? When I go down a run with only one person in front of me - do I try to see how "close" I can get to them so that there would be a possibility of them being in my blind spot - that's just not smart riding - guess that's what you want us to be????? What a joke!


Both incidents were the other rider's fault. Still, it's on you to remain aware on the hill. It was their fault, but did either stop? Were you any less ran over due to it being their fault?

Fault is for the cops, courtrooms, and lawyers. I try my best to avoid all of them.


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## otisdelarosa (Dec 29, 2011)

Collision or bumping with other snowboarders is rarely to happen. Ski resorts are wide. I don't think it is something to worry about. Just enjoy snowboarding 


--------------------------------------
sunday river snowboard package
Seven Springs Ski


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## BoardWalk (Mar 22, 2011)

srdeo said:


> I am not saying it's her fault and i agree one coming from behind is probably more responsible.


The accidents were both the uphill borders faults. The first rider just wasn't good enough to turn out of the way and the second rider was trying to cut between her and a rope.


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## BoardWalk (Mar 22, 2011)

srdeo said:


> Although i don't think the crash was no one's fault, I think one traversing has to watch out just as much as someone bombing down the hill.


No one should be bombing bunny runs.


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## Donutz (May 12, 2010)

firstx1017 said:


> Geez, let me see, when you start down a run and look down and see there is ONE boarder in front of you, and about 100 yards into the run you run INTO that person because all of a sudden she is in your "blind" spot - that is not his fault????


There is no definition by which this _wasn't_ the other person's fault. You don't need to worry about that. I think what some are trying to say is that part of being a good rider is being aware of what's happening around you and being prepared to avoid idiots. Most people have never read the Alpine Code, don't know it exists, and wouldn't care if they did and had. Assume you're riding on the same slopes with a bunch of mouth-breathing lackwits. You won't be far wrong. :laugh:


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## srdeo (Jan 29, 2012)

Again I am not saying it was her fault, but she has to learn to watch out for bad riders. Like you watch out for bad drivers and steer away from them. If they run into her she is more likely the one getting hurt since they are carring more momentum. You don't want to put yourself in that situation. She could have easily seen them coming if she looked up.
She looked too focused on what she was doing (good concentration), but she still has to be aware of things going on around her. Not her fault but still if there is a crash she may be the one getting hurt. You always know there is someone bombing down the bunny run and out of control so you have to watch out for them. Don't for a minute think that there are only responsible people on the hill. You have to learn to watch out for non responsible ones like when you are driving.


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## BoardWalk (Mar 22, 2011)

srdeo said:


> Again I am not saying it was her fault, but she has to learn to watch out for bad riders. Like you watch out for bad drivers and steer away from them.


I agree that you must be aware of your surroundings, but then what? In a situation where a downhill rider is making a turn and looks uphill to see someone coming at them, what do they do? Stop, maybe the uphill rider is anticipating that they will follow thru with the turn and plans on going where they were. Keep turning, maybe the uphill rider is anticipating that they will stop or turn the other way. Turn the other way, maybe the uphill rider..... Get the point? It is the responsibility of the uphill rider to check their speed give way. The person downhill really has no control over what is going to happen, it is all up to the overtaking rider.


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## t21 (Dec 29, 2010)

as for the vid posted by vicki,the two crashes were definitely the uphill riders fault.the first one was a boarder on toeside sliding sideways?? i guess he cannot point his board straight down,the second one,heelside edge(not paying attention to his left obviously and cannot stop or avoid anything)its a freaking green run for god sake! but for us intermediate/advance riders,being the uphill rider is our responsibility to watch the ones below us.i like to bomb the groomers too but once i notice someone who i THINK is a newbie, i slow down and anticipate his move.i put myself in his shoes and hope to god no one hits me.I'll try to pass him then go on my merry way.when riding glades then merging to groom runs i LOOK up to see if anyone is coming down and he would not be able to see me,but i do this if there is enough gap between the trees that i can see up,if not then i stop when i get to the end before i reach the groom run.basically being defensive.experienced riders should be able to adapt to their surroundings when riding since we can react much better to situations compared to beginners.unfortunately,others differ due to their ego, or just plain assholes or idiots:laugh:


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## HoboMaster (May 16, 2010)

Crashes on the bunny hill are going to be way more apparent then on larger, steeper runs. More sheep funneled into a barrel.


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## Tarzanman (Dec 20, 2008)

I don't usually ride fast enough to hamper my ability to turn/skid out of the way of an obstacle, but I damned near ran sideswiped my roommate at Jackson Hole in January.

We were all riding moderately fast down a main thoroughfare headed back to the base. The snow was pretty icy by western standards and I didn't bother to check my speed because my roommate skis and is almost always moving faster than I am.

I guess he must have cut or something because by time I got to within ~20-30ft of him I realized that I was going at least 7 mph faster than he was. There wasn't room to go around him without running the risk of colliding with other riders so I turned the board perpendicular and dug the heel edge in as much as I dared. Washing out would have still meant a collision due to how much speed I was carrying, so I had to make sure to not fall.

I've never been good at spraying snow up on a hard turn or stopping but I kicked up a pretty massive cloud of powder while slowing down. I eventually did slow down enough to not hit my roommate in front of me, at which point my hold on the edge gave out and I finally did fall on my butt. However, it was a short fall since I was already leaning pretty far back while braking and I was able to pop right back up without halting my forward advance.



Also, I banged my trailing knee on a sign once.


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## mixie (Mar 29, 2011)

Snowolf said:


> So Vicki, no doubt you have already figured this out, but now that you are riding a lot more in control and are progressing, just *assume everyone else on the hill is either a sociopath or a moron out to get you.* Always check your six o clock before making any drastic course change. Also, as you ride, pay attention to your surroundings and expect the unexpected to occur right in front of you.




You've probably never been to Snow Summit, where Vicki's videos come from. Because there is no assuming.....95% of the people there *are* sociopathic morons who are _trying_ to kill you. Someone else in this thread made some rather unpleasant statements about the So Cal resorts...sadly they're all true. Even more so on the summit run. I absolutely refuse to ride there on the weekends and even weekdays can be bad when the kiddies are released from school. Vicki, I have watched your videos, I hope you've moved off the summit run and on to some better areas you look more then ready for it. to the OP, not all resorts are like that. 

After years and years of riding a road bike on the road with cars, checking over my shoulder all the time is pretty much second nature. Even when just walking around Im constantly checking the 6.


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## Ttam (Jan 20, 2010)

Yep I can confirm that most riders at summit and bear have NO idea how to ride and what you hear is true.

The person down slope always has the right away no matter how fast anyone is going.


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## blondieyo (Jun 12, 2011)

firstx1017 said:


> Well, I will give a little more info in my video I posted. It is from my first year and only 2 months from my first time on a board. This is a total green run so should only have beginners on the run. As you can see, I had the run to myself - the resort had just opened. There was no one around me and then out of nowhere came this guy - who was facing downhill and should have been able to see me as I was the only one on the run. After he knocked me down my husband says I can't believe it, you were the only one on the mountain and he HAD to run into you! I was working on some tips that snowolf had given me about traversing across the hill and that is why I was traveling across the hill - ALL BY MYSELF. This particular run is very popular and many experienced boarders go like a bat out of hell down it when it is a green run and they have an audio with speakers on the run stating this is a slow slidding run only. There are other blue runs and diamond runs for the experienced riders. I normally look all around when on a busy run - but I was the only one around me until this guy came out of nowhere - yet many here think I was in the wrong and should have looked uphill? I disagree.
> 
> I have gotten better and can now pass others, yet I know when on that run that it is a beginner run and skiers with classes go down this run and are traversing across the hill all the time along with the snowboard classes - yet "I" haven't run into anyone..... go figure.....must be because "I" am paying attention to others around me.....


After watching the video it's really obvious that both those two boarders should've been paying attention and shouldn't have hit you, definitely their fault! However, you cannot say that green runs are for beginners only. One of my favourite runs at the resort I lived at for half a season was a green run and I bombed it as hard as I saw anyone else do it. I did however never crash into anyone and the only times I had any close calls were when there were people sitting down on the other side of big rollers that I couldn't see until I went over. Needless to say I yelled as loud as I could and sprayed the crap out of them for being there.
Also saying you're concentrating on your riding so you shouldn't have to look uphill and be aware of who's coming down is a cop out, otherwise you're just as bad as someone who's got there music cranked and is traversing across a run without thinking about what might be coming their way. Following the alpine code is the least you should do on the slopes, just because you're not technically in the wrong doesn't mean you couldn't have done something to avoid the accident. Also, never assume that because it's a quiet day you won't see anyone else on the slopes, so traversing across the entire run is a bad idea, it'll slow the flow of people going a little faster than you and it's just plain annoying. I don't care how much of a beginner you are, you shouldn't ever need more than 1/2 a green runs width to make a turn.


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## mixie (Mar 29, 2011)

blondieyo said:


> However, you cannot say that green runs are for beginners only. One of my favourite runs at the resort I lived at for half a season was a green run and I bombed it as hard as





she's not saying that green runs are for slow riding only. The run she is talking about, the run in which you see her getting hit in the video IS for slow riding only. It's actually rated as a blue not green IIRC. She's not making up some arbitrary rule, it was made by the resort. They have signs posted saying run is or slow riding ONLY. You are not supposed to go fast even if you are IN control. They even have speakers blurting out that you can't go fast. I've heard them enough I can recite the announcement by memory. 


of course they have no guidlines on what 'fast'  but I think we all have an idea of fast relative to the rest of the traffic on the road.


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## jyuen (Dec 16, 2007)

doesn't happen that often. just learn to spot where you're going before making any drastic changes to your course. and to look over your shoulder when u make huge heelside carves.

i hate when snowboarders complain about skiers crashing into them and then I watch them shred like they own the entire fucking mountain... blindly carve to their heelside and swipe people left right and centre...


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## mixie (Mar 29, 2011)

Snowolf said:


> There are two sides to that coin though. I see skiers all of the time with an inflated sense of entitlement who bomb the mountain while clearly seeing others and they refuse to make any change of course to leave any kind of safety margin what so ever.




skiers have no hesitation to bitch about boarders punching holes in traverses or cat tracks from having to walk. (That bothers me too, I try not to)Yet they seem to have no problem with passing on super narrow cat tracks with their fucking poles sticking out all over the place. Ive been hit with poles of passing skiers more then I can count. I actually grabbed onto one once, scared the shit out of him. he yelled at me, but I really didn't give a fuck. If you're going to do the downhill tuck at least do it right and don't have your poles perpendicular to the run you moron. That can't b=e very aerodynamic now can it? 

Yet when I am in a hurry to get to the bar they want to take their sweet fucking time walking up a small flight of stares in the torture traps they call 'boots' I have come thisclose to knocking a them few of them over in a fit rage for being in my way. I just try to remember that in general people suck, it's more about humanity and less about their choice of gear

I am just thankful that I have a flexible job can do 95% of my resort riding on weekdays. It's much, much better that way.


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## PaulyMolitor (Oct 29, 2009)

i didnt read any of the replys but the two best things to do is never stop or lay down after a crash in the middle of the run especially under a kicker and dont carve using the whole width of the run. The only time I hit a skier it was a 45ish year old woman who was carving the whole width of a run that was so flat she carved right into my path. I layed on the brackes so hard the bottom of my board hit her boots. She didnt even fall. I screamed the F word at her(it just seemed natural at the time) and bolted down the rest of the run. Follow my advice and you should be okay.


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## firstx1017 (Jan 10, 2011)

*target on me!*

So, obviously people just LOVE to get close to me. Here is today's "near miss". As you can see I was not traversing across the whole mountain and STILL this girl out of control went right by barely missing me. This was on a blue run yet she was out of control. So, I suppose it's still my fault that I don't have eyes in the back of my head on this one????


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## atr3yu (Feb 15, 2012)

firstx1017 said:


> So, obviously people just LOVE to get close to me. Here is today's "near miss". As you can see I was not traversing across the whole mountain and STILL this girl out of control went right by barely missing me. This was on a blue run yet she was out of control. So, I suppose it's still my fault that I don't have eyes in the back of my head on this one????


Wow, can't believe that person. This was my first season and I am lucky to say that I did not have a single issue. Hopefully next season is the same.


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## Donutz (May 12, 2010)

Just accept this one universal truth: There are idjits on the slopes. When you get better you get less bothered by idjits because you're moving as fast as them.


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## Argo (Feb 25, 2010)

firstx1017 said:


> So, obviously people just LOVE to get close to me. Here is today's "near miss". As you can see I was not traversing across the whole mountain and STILL this girl out of control went right by barely missing me. This was on a blue run yet she was out of control. So, I suppose it's still my fault that I don't have eyes in the back of my head on this one????



Is a blue run there a beginner run? Mixie says blue there are for slow only? Blue here is intermediate.... Green beginner... Dashed green on a map is begin slower slope.....


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## firstx1017 (Jan 10, 2011)

Argo said:


> Is a blue run there a beginner run? Mixie says blue there are for slow only? Blue here is intermediate.... Green beginner... Dashed green on a map is begin slower slope.....


This is the bottom of Miracle Mile and this particular section is a blue run. This is NOT Summit Run which is a green slow skiing and snowboarding only run.


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## Bones (Feb 24, 2008)

Wow.

Empty run, lots of room, you're making regular predictable turns. You couldn't be easier to avoid

Just wow


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## handscreate (Jan 17, 2012)

Vicki, you are clearly a moving target, haha. Seriously though, this skier was not in control, as could be seen by her reaction to almost hitting you. Btw, your turns look great compared to the last video! Your turns are close & very predictable for anyone with any sense coming down behind you. There really are a lot of bad skiers & riders at Summit & Bear, especially that side of the mountain. 

@ Argo: this is a Blue run. The other run she was on is Green in some parts &Blue in others.


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## poutanen (Dec 22, 2011)

firstx1017 said:


> So, obviously people just LOVE to get close to me. Here is today's "near miss". As you can see I was not traversing across the whole mountain and STILL this girl out of control went right by barely missing me. This was on a blue run yet she was out of control. So, I suppose it's still my fault that I don't have eyes in the back of my head on this one????


Holy crap! Nice turns by the way, great pace you looked really in control.

Seems like you have horrible luck with other people around you? You shouldn't have to do this, but are there some other runs you could hit with less goof balls on them? Your technique looks great so maybe step it up to a steeper run somewhere? I find the steeper they are, the less congestion there is and generally the less dumb dumbs (of course they're still around). The other great thing is hitting the trees, they tend to keep out of control skiers/riders like this vid away because they'd be toast if they hit the treed runs. My GF is in her second full season and loves the trees now, they also give you some depth perception on a low visibility day.


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## handscreate (Jan 17, 2012)

poutanen said:


> Holy crap! Nice turns by the way, great pace you looked really in control.
> 
> Seems like you have horrible luck with other people around you? You shouldn't have to do this, but are there some other runs you could hit with less goof balls on them? Your technique looks great so maybe step it up to a steeper run somewhere? I find the steeper they are, the less congestion there is and generally the less dumb dumbs (of course they're still around). The other great thing is hitting the trees, they tend to keep out of control skiers/riders like this vid away because they'd be toast if they hit the treed runs. My GF is in her second full season and loves the trees now, they also give you some depth perception on a low visibility day.


Steeper, our the other side of the mountain, yes. Trees, no. The trees here are really only good with fresh snow in there, and at least 8" if not more, otherwise you're hitting all the exposed rocks & stumps right now.


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## linvillegorge (Jul 6, 2009)

firstx1017 said:


> So, obviously people just LOVE to get close to me. Here is today's "near miss". As you can see I was not traversing across the whole mountain and STILL this girl out of control went right by barely missing me. This was on a blue run yet she was out of control. So, I suppose it's still my fault that I don't have eyes in the back of my head on this one????


Yeah, I don't know what to tell ya other than that's why I try my best to avoid the tourist runs. You won't catch me on the blues right by the lifts except when I'm trying to get somewhere else or I'm heading back to the base. Out here in CO, there are always areas of the mountain that aren't crowded and I seek them out. I don't ride when it's WROD conditions.

Some people get a kick out of buzzing beginners. Those people are called assholes. I never do it. We were all there at some point.


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## MarshallV82 (Apr 6, 2011)

If your the common denominator in crashes, look at YOUR riding habits. 
I mean, It's the uphill skier/riders fault/responsibility... but if your riding in a crowded area with a bunch of beginners - it's gonna happen
If your slip-sliding down a double black, your going to get ran into or someone is going to blaze by very close. It will happen. 


If your going down the interstate at 35 MPH and going back and fourth in both lanes without paying attention, there is a pretty good chance your gonna get assholed ! 

=) 

I've been Skiing and Riding for 20+ years and I've only crashed into two people, and I've been hit 4 times. 

(On VERY crowded days with tons of beginners. I ran into a guy in his mid-40's who came out of the trees without looking up when I was bombing down Starfire @ keystone - thankfully nobody was hurt. I always rode the edges because the good snow was there..

And some asshole snow-gangster who was just sitting at the bottom of a jump. I had to bail in the air and f**ked my knee doing it. he just rolled over the landing and stopped I guess, never seen him.. at least he got hurt too.

I've ran into my friends often, when we are racing or f**king around in the park, but those don't count.


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## Donutz (May 12, 2010)

In motorcycle training, they teach students not to look at the pylons but at the spaces between the pylons. To make the point, they'd tell the students this _after_ everyone had had a chance to try threading the pylons. Then they'd get to try again and it made a _huge_ difference.


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## poutanen (Dec 22, 2011)

Snowolf said:


> I think a lot of this sort of thing is attributable to people looking at the other rider. They may have every intent to avoid a collision and as such are focussing on that other rider. People tend to go where they look and I think this draws them directly at the target that consciously they are trying to avoid, but subconsciously are drawn to.


Yeah +1 to this having similarities to motorcycle crashes. It's called target fixation. You're brain says "holy shit there's a tree" and you ride straight for it. Just another reason I'm looking downhill 99% of the time when boarding, I'm travelling downhill so that's where I should be looking, and if a skier/rider comes at me from the side I'll catch them in the peripheral and move without having to look right at them.

I actually had a bit of a target fixation crash on my first bike. I was driving on a two lane road, travelling fairly fast over a hill, at the crest of the hill I realized the road turned right away, but my weight was off the bike so I knew I'd have a lot less traction than necessary to turn. So I grabbed as much brake as I could without skidding or doing a "stoppie" and then I target fixated on the ditch ahead. Luckily I had scrubbed most of the speed by the time I hit the gravel shoulder, so the bike basically dropped underneath me and I tumbled off into the ditch at about 40 km/h.

Had I scrubbed off speed and continued to look through the turn, I probably would have made it.


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## firstx1017 (Jan 10, 2011)

Don't have trees much at our home mountain - so when in Colorado, you must watch for skiers not looking when coming out of trees.






Thank goodness I had just gotten up and was just starting down the hill......


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## john doe (Nov 6, 2009)

When in trees I view it the same as being on a small side street to a major street. The traffic from the major street has the right of way and it is my job to make sure the path is clear before joining in. That doesn't mean I don't ride defensively when near trees.


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## Donutz (May 12, 2010)

So, Vicki, maybe start carrying a ski pole? Poke'em as they go by :laugh:


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