# Best Binding Company



## SuCoSlayer (Jan 5, 2014)

I used to be in the know about this during the 2000's when I lived in CO and rode about 40 days a season. I have since moved to Bama for work, picked up wakeboarding, and am a little behind on the snowboard scene. I used to swear by Technine bindings. And a bunch of my buddies wore Ride bindings. It seems T9 haven't been doing it as well as they used to, but Ride still seems to be good. I've got a pair of Ride Revolts and I like them, but they aren't quite as responsive as my old T9 Destroyers, although they are MUCH lighter (those T9s had metal heelcups). What are some good brands these days? I like slightly stiff flex and I loved the Baltimore toe strap from T9 that Ride has done ok with and some other companies have copied, too. I've heard good things about Union. Don't even mention Burton. I just don't care for them. Their stuff was never bad, but always seemed way overpriced compared to other companies.

My setup: Never Summer SL 164, Ride Revolts, and Vans Wiig boots. I love the boots. The bindings feel slightly soft for me. The board also has a bit more flex than I'd like. But I found a previous season's model at a huge discount and couldn't pass it up. I'd like to switch bindings and see how that feels before I go for a different deck.


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## Extremo (Nov 6, 2008)

Morrow or Lamar. Don't even bother with anything else.


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## Poop (Dec 9, 2013)

i personally like unions


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## poutanen (Dec 22, 2011)

SuCoSlayer said:


> Don't even mention Burton. I just don't care for them. Their stuff was never bad, but always seemed way overpriced compared to other companies.


Burton. I use diodes on everything, they're stiff, the straps are comfy and they work for me.


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## SuCoSlayer (Jan 5, 2014)

Extremo said:


> Morrow or Lamar. Don't even bother with anything else.


I can find those at Walmart, right?


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## snowklinger (Aug 30, 2011)

top choices all have bindings tied for "snowklinger would love to ride":

burton (love my '12 'vitas to death, will probably replace out of pure love unless demo...)
salomon (wanna try hologram)
flux (unsure, very interested)

things I like: plastic unibody, footbed cushioning, trad 2 strap

things I hate: metal parts(ie frame), gimmicky non-2strap systems (excluding flow)

k2's I had felt dead, but it may have been those bindings ('11 auto uprise)

things I'm not sure/interested about: flow, union, switchback, NOW.


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## Rob23 (Dec 4, 2013)

Although Im in the same situation. Just got back into riding this year after many years off. I went for Union Flights. They are extremely light and seem medium stiffness. And I know they sell much stiffer ones if thats what your after.


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## SuCoSlayer (Jan 5, 2014)

poutanen said:


> Burton. I use diodes on everything, they're stiff, the straps are comfy and they work for me.


Well, at least you stated WHY you like them. To each his own. I'm not as anti-Burton as I used to be. I'd actually buy a pair if I demo'd them and the price was right. Never been thrilled with paying premium prices for gear made in China or Taiwan. But Ride makes their bindings in China, too.

Speaking of manufacturing, anyone know of a good binding that's made in the USA? That's part of what I like about Never Summer. Quality boards that are made in Denver, CO. I know of multiple good board makers that build here (NS, Lib Tech, Gnu), but I don't know any domestic company that makes bindings, or boots for that matter...


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## jml22 (Apr 10, 2012)

Not really a best.... I would say Burton cartels are probably the most popular?
Good bindings are good, cheap bindings cheap.
That being said most of my friends ride Burton/Union/Flux
I ride flux SF45s, absolutely love them.


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## SuCoSlayer (Jan 5, 2014)

Rob23 said:


> Although Im in the same situation. Just got back into riding this year after many years off. I went for Union Flights. They are extremely light and seem medium stiffness. And I know they sell much stiffer ones if thats what your after.


Union is what I'm leaning towards right now. If I'm not able to demo something while I'm in CO next month I'll probably get a pair of Unions, probably the Factory model. I've seen some reviews that people had trouble with the ratcheting on them. But that's probably a rarity rather than the norm. Even my old trusty technines had their own particular way you had to pull the ratchets to get them to release. Once you learned the trick it was never a problem.


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## jml22 (Apr 10, 2012)

Can't go wrong with any of the top models to be honest, just be objective.
It's funny when you see people complain about flows being hard to get into, when it's them setting the bindings up wrong.
They're all good. 
I really do like my flux bindings


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## trapper (Jan 15, 2013)

SuCoSlayer said:


> Union is what I'm leaning towards right now. If I'm not able to demo something while I'm in CO next month I'll probably get a pair of Unions, probably the Factory model. I've seen some reviews that people had trouble with the ratcheting on them. But that's probably a rarity rather than the norm. Even my old trusty technines had their own particular way you had to pull the ratchets to get them to release. Once you learned the trick it was never a problem.


I am on a pair of Factories right now and the ratchets are just fine; just make sure you use the press down then pull method on the toestrap. It's never stuck on me and the toestrap has also never slipped on me, which was something I had problems with in previous binders. I like these way better than the other two bindings I've used in my short tenure as a snowboarder (3rd full season). My older model Burton Missions were good and I still have them and will keep them for a backup, but they are just a bit soft for my current board. My 2013 Ride Capos, they're fine but not for me and I'm going to be selling them. I decided that I don't like the all-aluminum base and they felt clunky compared to my Unions. I'm also not a fan of Ride's customer service but I won't go into that.


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## Rob23 (Dec 4, 2013)

SuCoSlayer said:


> Union is what I'm leaning towards right now. If I'm not able to demo something while I'm in CO next month I'll probably get a pair of Unions, probably the Factory model. I've seen some reviews that people had trouble with the ratcheting on them. But that's probably a rarity rather than the norm. Even my old trusty technines had their own particular way you had to pull the ratchets to get them to release. Once you learned the trick it was never a problem.


I wouldn't say that I had a problem with the toe strap ratchets, but they are definitely stiff when releasing. As long as you set them up right and aren't ratcheting them too far, leave at least 6-7 teeth between the ratchet and the end of the strap if that makes sense. Also using the "push down then pull method" worked well like trapper said.

The shop I bought mine were big with Union so when I mentioned that they were stiff they just tossed me some of the newer ratchets with the quick release tab like the ankle straps have. Free of charge.


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## MJP (Jan 7, 2013)

Burton c60's. I have a couple pair and love the responsiveness. Ended up buying a pair of IPO's, love them on my TRice for bombing, but just feel like they're not as responsive as the c60's. Probably sell those soon...


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## Art_mtl (Feb 25, 2013)

I ride Flux DM on NS Raptor they light, pretty stiff and straps are good. You may also check out Nitro Machine, they are very stiff and responsive.
And pretty much everything is made in China those days but thats politics lol


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## Lamps (Sep 3, 2011)

jml22 said:


> Can't go wrong with any of the top models to be honest, just be objective.
> 
> They're all good.


 Agree with this. 

That said Burton Diodes for me, really like them.


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## SuCoSlayer (Jan 5, 2014)

Good info about the Unions, trapper and Rob. Much appreciated.


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## East§ide (Mar 14, 2011)

If you're disqualifying Burton based on a 10 year old self-placed misconception then you're really doing yourself a disservice. My Burton Cartels replaced Union Force's and they're like night and day. I think you're really being silly not considering Cartels or Missions .


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## trapper (Jan 15, 2013)

East§ide said:


> If you're disqualifying Burton based on a 10 year old self-placed misconception then you're really doing yourself a disservice. My Burton Cartels replaced Union Force's and they're like night and day. I think you're really being silly not considering Cartels or Missions .


FWIW, I wouldn't have even considered replacing my '09 model Missions were it not for wanting something stiffer and canted. I still really like those bindings. Not to make OP second guess himself, but I'm just agreeing about Burton bindings.


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## East§ide (Mar 14, 2011)

You should try cartels ! /\


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## trapper (Jan 15, 2013)

East§ide said:


> You should try cartels ! /\


Yea probably will someday. I know you had a bad experience with your Unions, but I like these so far. The only reason I decided against Cartels was that everyone is saying that they're not as stiff as they used to be and that they're more of a park binding than they used to be. 

Besides, I'd never convince the wife to let me spring for another pair anytime soon! lol


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## East§ide (Mar 14, 2011)

yea im not gonna bash on Union anymore, Im pretty sure I just had a bad experience and I dont represent the norm..that being said, I have last years Restricted Re:Flex Cartels and so far they are super responsive and comfy.. theyre way more all mountain in my opinion than the Forces were.


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## readimag (Aug 10, 2011)

I had a set of ride deltas and burton Vita’s and went to salomon holograms and switchbacks and could not be happier. That being said I really did love my my other bindings but I like these a lot more. Don’t take someone word for what bindings will work or wont work for you just need to try a bunch on demo days. I took a total gamble with the holograms but it worked out great and my local shop said they would trade them out if I really hated them.


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## SuCoSlayer (Jan 5, 2014)

East§ide said:


> If you're disqualifying Burton based on a 10 year old self-placed misconception then you're really doing yourself a disservice. My Burton Cartels replaced Union Force's and they're like night and day. I think you're really being silly not considering Cartels or Missions .


If I get the chance to demo some, I will. Like I said, I'm not completely opposed to burton like I used to be. If I loved them after trying them and the price was reasonable, I'd buy them. I would never consider one of their boards bc they're not made in USA and there are plenty of sticks that are every bit as good or better that are built here. But apparently no one makes bindings domestic.


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## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

not really helpful...but Sparks...Afterburners are burls and frickin stiffer than Ron Jeremy. And they have the high-end burton ratchets for locking your shit down. They are very stout and seem bomb proof...the stiffest and most responsive of anything I've tried...definitely for big lines. And you don't have to crank them down to feel secure and responsive.


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## speedjason (May 2, 2013)

union force. never missed a beat. straps are awesome and ratchets are strong.


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## NZRide (Oct 2, 2013)

Not much love for Rome bindings these days?
Got the 390s and will upgrade to the 390 Boss this year because on the new canted footbeds.
Love the comfort/flex/response on these, is perfect in my mind. Also they have heaps of adjustment options which means you can get perfect boot placement and comfort with a little setup tinkering.
I guess the downside of that is that there are more parts that can potentially break or fail and makes them a little heavier than some? 
Just had one cracked base plate and plastic flange thing, in 5 years (and they have only just happened this season, with them so I think the quality is right up their.


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## Caffeine (Oct 15, 2013)

SuCoSlayer said:


> I can find those at Walmart, right?


HA! Good one bro! Yeah aren't those rather obscure brands?


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## Soul06 (Dec 18, 2010)

SuCoSlayer said:


> If I get the chance to demo some, I will. Like I said, I'm not completely opposed to burton like I used to be. If I loved them after trying them and the price was reasonable, I'd buy them. I would never consider one of their boards bc they're not made in USA and there are plenty of sticks that are every bit as good or better that are built here. But apparently no one makes bindings domestic.


I loved my Burton CO2s and am now loving my Burton Genesis bindings. Though I want to change the footbed for the Autocant that comes with the Vitas/Cartels. I make it a habit to always buy new gear half way through or at the end of a season. That way I get the reduced prices for gear thats only one season old....and usually no different than the next years version.
But I also ride Burton boards as well. While it would be nice if they were made here still instead of China and Austria (for the high end boards) I can't blame companies for outsources when out govt rapes business for every nickle and dime they make via every increasing production costs, taxes and recurring fees sometimes for items they already own and have paid for.


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## Shred&Butter (Sep 15, 2012)

I've been riding Ride Beta Movement bindings for years now.

They are just comfortable and tight. Never had any binding issues. Padded footbed and rubber base so they are easy on the board if you slam a landing. There's a lot of adjustment in them so I can get the backplate angle right both vertically and horizontally. Pretty lightweight too.

I would have initially overlooked Ride bindings in favour of Rome 390s but I got a recommendation for the Betas from somebody that had got 2 solid seasons out of them. I think I got mine in 2009!


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## theprocess (Sep 9, 2013)

Burton. Why? No non-sense, solid built quality binders. But most of all top notch customer service and shop support. If there's a problem Burton will solve it. In a pinch on the mountain virtually all shops stock replacement parts. Not without faults but overall the best binding company in the market.


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## Caffeine (Oct 15, 2013)

theprocess said:


> Burton. Why? No non-sense, solid built quality binders. But most of all top notch customer service and shop support. If there's a problem Burton will solve it. In a pinch on the mountain virtually all shops stock replacement parts. Not without faults but overall the best binding company in the market.


Agreed.They have been in the game for a long time and know their stuff. Even all the burton haters gotta admit that. :laugh:


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## SuCoSlayer (Jan 5, 2014)

theprocess said:


> Burton. Why? No non-sense, solid built quality binders. But most of all top notch customer service and shop support. If there's a problem Burton will solve it. In a pinch on the mountain virtually all shops stock replacement parts. Not without faults but overall the best binding company in the market.


I will admit this: when I was in Big Sky Montana 4 yrs ago, the toe strap plastic on one of my old T9 Destroyers broke. By this time those bindings were 7 or 8 seasons old. Only 2 or 3 of those seasons were full seasons of riding, but still, that's old. Couldn't really blame the bindings. So I went to a local shop. They had some white toe straps that even matched my bindings. They were Burton. But other than the burton logo you couldn't tell the difference. The shop didn't charge me for it, and they even gave me an extra in case the other toe strap broke (it never did). Win for Burton, but huge win for that shop.

One thing Burton did that ticked me off: when they changed their hole pattern on their boards. That always seemed like a marketing gimmick to me. Can anyone tell me how the three hole pattern is better than the industry standard 4 hole pattern? I'd love to hear why, because it seems to me they did that to get people to buy their bindings, since without an extra baseplate disc, no one else's bindings would fit on a Burton board. I don't know if this is still the case. If Burton has since switched back to 4 hole pattern then please pardon my rant.


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## Caffeine (Oct 15, 2013)

^^Lol Burton has thrown inserts into the trash and now has the Channel System on their boards. Makes inserts look so obsolete and old. Yes, the channel only works with burton EST bindings and no other, but I have to say its gotta be the best mounting system out there. While all other brands still use inserts, Burton has moved ahead.


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## poutanen (Dec 22, 2011)

Caffeine said:


> ^^Lol Burton has thrown inserts into the trash and now has the Channel System on their boards. Makes inserts look so obsolete and old. Yes, the channel only works with burton EST bindings and no other, but I have to say its gotta be the best mounting system out there. While all other brands still use inserts, Burton has moved ahead.


Yes and no, I love the channel with EST bindings, but you CAN use other brand bindings on the boards. You just need 2 hole baseplates instead of 4 hole...

I wish everyone would go with the channel, shit if I were another company I'd even pay Burton for the right to use it. It's just better!


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## SuCoSlayer (Jan 5, 2014)

Caffeine said:


> ^^Lol Burton has thrown inserts into the trash and now has the Channel System on their boards. Makes inserts look so obsolete and old. Yes, the channel only works with burton EST bindings and no other, but I have to say its gotta be the best mounting system out there. While all other brands still use inserts, Burton has moved ahead.


What do you like better about it? Slingshot wakeboards use channel mounting so I'm familiar with the tech. On a wakeboard it makes sense because it allows for micro-adjustments since there is no binding (except for Hyperlite Systems), just a boot screwed to the board. But on a snowboard binding, those baseplate discs allow for micro-adjustments both nose to tail and edge to edge allowing for virtually any micro-adjustment you can think of, just not as easy since there are twice as many screws. However, 4 screws in each binding seems more bomb-proof to me. So slight edge in ease of adjustment to channel system, and slight edge to 4 hole insert for strength and durability. Seems like a wash to me. I guess if someone adjusts their stance width and/or angles a lot, then the channel system would be nice. But I know what I like so I wouldn't see a benefit.


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## poutanen (Dec 22, 2011)

SuCoSlayer said:


> What do you like better about it?.


I've owned 3 channel boards, and several other 4x4 disc boards in the last 4 years or so.

- The 2 mounting spots are not weak, I have had one screw loosen up in all that time, while other people with 4 hole bindings have had baseplates crack. Strength is not an issue with the system.

- 4x4 allows you SOME adjustability, stance angle in 3 deg increments, stance width in approx 1" increments (depending on how many inserts your board came with), and limited heel to toe adustment in approx 1/4" increments.

- EST allows you full adjustment. I like a very specific stance width, so using 4x4 bindings I rotate the disc 90 deg and give myself about 1/2" of adjustability there, and then just hope that my boots don't overhang. With EST I can pick my exact stance width, angle, and heel/toe adjustment without compromise.

I think it's a better system and all board companies should go that route. I almost never ride a Burton board anymore, but love the bindings, and wish I could use the mounting system on all my boards.


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## SuCoSlayer (Jan 5, 2014)

Good info, poutanen. Thanks.


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## SuCoSlayer (Jan 5, 2014)

poutanen said:


> Yes and no, I love the channel with EST bindings, but you CAN use other brand bindings on the boards. You just need 2 hole baseplates instead of 4 hole...


Depending on hardware and only if the two screw holes on each channel slide independently of each other, you could probably just rotate the the 4 hole baseplate disc 45 degrees, where two holes in opposite corners are in line with the channel, and attach it that way. No two hole disc needed.


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## poutanen (Dec 22, 2011)

SuCoSlayer said:


> Depending on hardware and only if the two screw holes on each channel slide independently of each other, you could probably just rotate the the 4 hole baseplate disc 45 degrees, where two holes in opposite corners are in line with the channel, and attach it that way. No two hole disc needed.


Yeah I was thinking that as I typed my first response. The hardware in the channel is fully independent (and can be changed out if something strips, etc.). 

The only trouble with that is you'd get no heel/toe adjustability. With the 2 hole disk you get nearly infinite stance width adjustability, traditional 3 deg stance angle adjustability, and traditional 3 position heel/toe adjustability.

That said, if you own an channel board why not get EST bindings for it. I'd almost like to see a channel that you could bolt onto a 4x4 board to use EST bindings on. Race boards use riser plates for leverage, so having a 1/4 piece of aluminium under your feet shouldn't be a big deal.


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## East§ide (Mar 14, 2011)

SuCoSlayer said:


> Depending on hardware and only if the two screw holes on each channel slide independently of each other, you could probably just rotate the the 4 hole baseplate disc 45 degrees, where two holes in opposite corners are in line with the channel, and attach it that way. No two hole disc needed.


I think you should probably take some time to educate yourself on the actual EST technology and the other new snowboarding technology. This isn't meant to be rude at all, but you seem fairly uneducated when it comes to the new tech, the brands, their stigmas and what you can expect from each. Just a few obvious little comments make me think you are really shopping based on some biases and a pseudo-understanding of the products that you are looking at.


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## SuCoSlayer (Jan 5, 2014)

East§ide said:


> I think you should probably take some time to educate yourself on the actual EST technology and the other new snowboarding technology. This isn't meant to be rude at all, but you seem fairly uneducated when it comes to the new tech, the brands, their stigmas and what you can expect from each. Just a few obvious little comments make me think you are really shopping based on some biases and a pseudo-understanding of the products that you are looking at.


I won't buy a Burton board bc it's made in China (or more importantly, not made in USA). Buying domestic is important to me. If that isn't clear to you by now (since I've mentioned it several times in this thread) then you just haven't been paying attention. Lack of attention would explain why you think I'm uneducated about new tech. Frankly I don't care what you think about how educated I am about snowboarding tech. That's not why I solicited everyone's opinion on binding companies. I think it's interesting what people consider is the best in this industry. The way things trend regarding snowboard tech relies much on public opinion. Whether that's a good or bad thing is irrelevant.

Where a product is made may not be a factor for you. And that's fine. Not everything thats important to me has to be important for someone else. I realize that I can't be as selective with bindings since no one makes them domestic. I accept it.

The fact is, not a whole lot has changed in the last several years. EST, while relatively new to snowboarding, is nothing new or special. It's been used in wakeboarding for years. Not the same terminology, but the same tech. Call it EST or BFF or totes mcgotes, it's the same thing. If you can't understand that, then we're just not on the same wavelength.

I appreciated your initial contributions, but this last statement didn't make any sense.

I do love your NS logo avatar, though!

*Edit* Eastside, your post gave me an idea. You mentioned "other new snowboard tech". So what else has changed? Educate me. Who knows? Maybe I'll learn something! Not being sarcastic. I'm sure there's some things I missed. I moved from CO to AL in '04 (yeah I know I'm old). What else did I miss?

To be honest, since I only get to snowboard 2 or 3 times a year, I may hold off on getting any new gear for a while. I'd like to, but my NS SL, Ride Revolts, and Vans are good enough for me. I wouldn't get to ride enough to really appreciate something only marginally better. But it still interests me and I like talking about it.


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## East§ide (Mar 14, 2011)

SuCoSlayer said:


> I won't buy a Burton board bc it's made in China (or more importantly, not made in USA). Buying domestic is important to me. If that isn't clear to you by now (since I've mentioned it several times in this thread) then you just haven't been paying attention. Lack of attention would explain why you think I'm uneducated about new tech. Frankly I don't care what you think about how educated I am about snowboarding tech. That's not why I solicited everyone's opinion on binding companies. I think it's interesting what people consider is the best in this industry. The way things trend regarding snowboard tech relies much on public opinion. Whether that's a good or bad thing is irrelevant.
> 
> Where a product is made may not be a factor for you. And that's fine. Not everything thats important to me has to be important for someone else. I realize that I can't be as selective with bindings since no one makes them domestic. I accept it.
> 
> ...


I cab appreciate your dedication to buying American made, although I honestly think that the choices are getting slimmer by the minute and at some point you are biting off your nose to spite your face. That being said, there are still some great options for boards made in the US(Never Summer,etc.). Bindings are a totally different story apparently. Lots of people have lots of opinions about bindings. Having used Ride, Union and Burton, I am clearly a fan of Burton. No matter how many times I stray, I end up back there.

As far as new tech, there is TONS.. but it is all about what is important to you and what you consider useful. TBT (Triple Base Technology), Magnetraction/Frostbite, EST, multiple hybrid cambers, canted footbeds, "hammock" style and back-less bindings, Boa, double Boa, Speedlace, carbonium and bio-bean topsheets, etc. It's all new or reinvented tech and all serves it's purpose. 

I really wasn't trying to be rude, everyone has their own opinions and likes to tout them out there as if they are the best.. but the honest truth is you will garner alot more subjective information from just reading this site than in this thread. Also, reading Angrysnowboarder really does shed some light on different technical advancements and setbacks as well.


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## lab49232 (Sep 13, 2011)

East§ide said:


> I cab appreciate your dedication to buying American made, although I honestly think that the choices are getting slimmer by the minute and at some point you are biting off your nose to spite your face. That being said, there are still some great options for boards made in the US(Never Summer,etc.). Bindings are a totally different story apparently. Lots of people have lots of opinions about bindings. Having used Ride, Union and Burton, I am clearly a fan of Burton. No matter how many times I stray, I end up back there.
> 
> As far as new tech, there is TONS.. but it is all about what is important to you and what you consider useful. TBT (Triple Base Technology), Magnetraction/Frostbite, EST, multiple hybrid cambers, canted footbeds, "hammock" style and back-less bindings, Boa, double Boa, Speedlace, carbonium and bio-bean topsheets, etc. It's all new or reinvented tech and all serves it's purpose.


It's true. I appreciate American made but just about all boards are made in about 3 factories in the world. Elan used to be the major one (arbor for example was made there) but now most of that is going to Dubai which has long led in wakeboard and kiteboard manufacturing. If you're looking for big established brands who produce in the US you have NS and Mervin and don't be surprised if that changes soon. American made is great but a lot of the best boards on the market are sadly being made in other countries from Dubai to China to Austria.

As for tech, ya there's just a million things going on. No quick way to break any of it down, best thing to do is check out the new gear thread and read through it and see whats coming out for next season to help catch yourself up on tech.


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## SuCoSlayer (Jan 5, 2014)

East§ide said:


> As far as new tech, there is TONS.. but it is all about what is important to you and what you consider useful. TBT (Triple Base Technology), Magnetraction/Frostbite, EST, multiple hybrid cambers, canted footbeds, "hammock" style and back-less bindings, Boa, double Boa, Speedlace, carbonium and bio-bean topsheets, etc. It's all new or reinvented tech and all serves it's purpose.


TBT. Hadn't heard of that. Thanks! You learn something new every day...


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## Caffeine (Oct 15, 2013)

SuCoSlayer;1438673[B said:


> ]I won't buy a Burton board bc it's made in China[/B] (or more importantly, not made in USA). Buying domestic is important to me. If that isn't clear to you by now (since I've mentioned it several times in this thread) then you just haven't been paying attention. Lack of attention would explain why you think I'm uneducated about new tech. Frankly I don't care what you think about how educated I am about snowboarding tech. That's not why I solicited everyone's opinion on binding companies. I think it's interesting what people consider is the best in this industry. The way things trend regarding snowboard tech relies much on public opinion. Whether that's a good or bad thing is irrelevant.
> 
> Where a product is made may not be a factor for you. And that's fine. Not everything thats important to me has to be important for someone else. I realize that I can't be as selective with bindings since no one makes them domestic. I accept it.
> 
> ...


Correct me if I am wrong but I think most if not all Burton boards are made in Austria and Canada.


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## ttccnn (Mar 31, 2011)

Caffeine said:


> Correct me if I am wrong but I think most if not all Burton boards are made in Austria and Canada.


As I know, the firsty process I have (2010-2011 model) is made in Austria, it is printed. and the second one is a warranty from Burton (2011-2012 model), these is a sticker (transparent with white printing) on the white base said made in China.....

not sure about Canada, but I just saw that darkside list a burton board made in VT at their prototype factory or something.

Burton Moonshine Snowboard Made in Vermont | Men's Snowboards | Snowboards | Darkside Snowboard Shop


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## Caffeine (Oct 15, 2013)

Yeah I have had 3 burton boards (2009, and two 2013s) and they have been made in Austria....however your observation that the warranty board was made in China is interesting....Burton too cheap to give people replacement boards made in Austria?


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## ttccnn (Mar 31, 2011)

I think it may be just process is not that high end haha, as I remember when I check this year's process in the store, it does not have "made in Austria" printed like custom, but they do have 3 years warranty now.

and I think it is kind of off-topic haha


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## SuCoSlayer (Jan 5, 2014)

Caffeine said:


> Correct me if I am wrong but I think most if not all Burton boards are made in Austria and Canada.


What, did Austria and Canada abolish their child labor laws?

I kid, I kid...


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## SuCoSlayer (Jan 5, 2014)

So far, it seems we have Burton in the lead (boy you Burton fans sure are loyal). Then Union. And a few others have been mentioned: Ride, K2, Salomon, Flux, Flow (always wanted to give Flows a try), Rome, and Nitro. And someone even mentioned Lamar and Morrow for you Walmart shoppers.

There you have it. Burton wins again. I may have to give them a shot someday.

It's interesting that Sims, the company founded by the other guy who invented snowboarding, doesn't seem to be doing as well as Burton. Of course, no one else is doing as well as Burton either. Maybe Ride is a distant 2nd? K2, Salomon, Rossi, etc are different since they're in the ski business as well. I wonder how some of those companies would have fared had they not already been established in the ski game. Better? Worse? But, I digress...


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## Caffeine (Oct 15, 2013)

I think the reason why Burton does so well has to do with a combination of factors such as advertising, technological advancements that are exclusive to burton, the amount of famous riders on their pro team etc. However you slice it Burton makes good stuff and I consider it the "Ferrari" of snowboard brands....like what other brand gives such a impression? When everyone sees burton they "know" its good. But I digress lol. 

I have often wondered that as well about solomon....you would think being the first to invent the snowboard the guy would have been well off to the races and have a brand similar to burton set up but I guess not....


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## East§ide (Mar 14, 2011)

SuCoSlayer said:


> So far, it seems we have Burton in the lead (boy you Burton fans sure are loyal). Then Union. And a few others have been mentioned: Ride, K2, Salomon, Flux, Flow (always wanted to give Flows a try), Rome, and Nitro. And someone even mentioned Lamar and Morrow for you Walmart shoppers.
> 
> There you have it. Burton wins again. I may have to give them a shot someday.
> 
> It's interesting that Sims, the company founded by the other guy who invented snowboarding, doesn't seem to be doing as well as Burton. Of course, no one else is doing as well as Burton either. Maybe Ride is a distant 2nd? K2, Salomon, Rossi, etc are different since they're in the ski business as well. I wonder how some of those companies would have fared had they not already been established in the ski game. Better? Worse? But, I digress...


i can only speculate but maybe the fact that Tom Sims passed away slowed them down a bit, though honestly i dont remember them being a big presence much before that either.

There are lots of great companies..Burton is clearly the biggest, and in some ways, I think they make some of the best products.. boards are a different story since they are SO subjective and there are just so many varieties. I would say Ride, Rome, K2, Gnu/Libtech are all up there as far as boards & bindings go.


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## lab49232 (Sep 13, 2011)

Sim's has never had that big of a role. Once other companies started coming to the market they lost all their market share. And while Burton is obviously the largest, they also have been taking hits harder than most other companies lately. Let's not forget they practically killed a third of their company last season between Forum, Red, Analog, etc. Other companies (some, not many, it's been a rough few seasons for snowboard brands) are growing and if anything Burton is shrinking.


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## SuCoSlayer (Jan 5, 2014)

lab49232 said:


> Sim's has never had that big of a role. Once other companies started coming to the market they lost all their market share. And while Burton is obviously the largest, they also have been taking hits harder than most other companies lately. Let's not forget they practically killed a third of their company last season between Forum, Red, Analog, etc. Other companies (some, not many, it's been a rough few seasons for snowboard brands) are growing and if anything Burton is shrinking.


FORUM! There's a brand I'm going to miss. I had a forum board that I used as a park board for a season. It wasn't that great to be honest, but that team they had back in the late 90s/early 00's?! And the team films from Mack Dawg?! Damn. Too bad they went under. True Life is still one of my favorite movies.


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## lab49232 (Sep 13, 2011)

SuCoSlayer said:


> FORUM! There's a brand I'm going to miss. I had a forum board that I used as a park board for a season. It wasn't that great to be honest, but that team they had back in the late 90s/early 00's?! And the team films from Mack Dawg?! Damn. Too bad they went under. True Life is still one of my favorite movies.


Right? I grew up on Mack Dawg! Forum where my favorite looking boards growing up. Burton killed them when they got a hold of it. Overproduction across all lines. It's really hurt the industry. Love having a wide selection to choose from but companies can't make money selling a handful of each style of board. Burton's not the only one to blame, but they sure didn't help. You'll find a lot of dialed back line ups coming next season.


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## Soul06 (Dec 18, 2010)

This is what I've read via a Smithsonian site about Burton vs Sims



> 3) The Burton-Sims War Begins (1978)
> Jake Burton Carpenter (also known as Jake Burton) and Tom Sims didn’t like each other, but they helped push snowboarding into the mainstream consciousness. Burton moved from Long Island to Londonderry, Vermont, during the 1977-78 season to start peddling a Snurfer knockoff he called a Burton Board. He sold six units his first season. On the West Coast, skateboard icon Tom Sims started selling the first Sims snowboards during the 1978-79 season and faced equal resistance.
> 
> Both men persevered, however, and emerged as snowboarding’s leading forces on the East and West Coasts. For more than a decade, Burton and Sims engaged in a bitter war for industry supremacy that involved constant innovation, inventive marketing, petty bickering and talent raids.
> ...


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## belowe (Jan 12, 2014)

I am by no means a burton fanboy, but I love my cartels. Havent let me down yet.


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## snowklinger (Aug 30, 2011)

You wont find Burton dominating ANY product like they do bindings. The truth happens even on the internet. 

Boots are a distant 2nd and their boards waver in the middle of the pack. People like their outerwear but they dont dominate there either.

Everything isn't fanboyism, they make great bindings.


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## poutanen (Dec 22, 2011)

What got me on to Burton was actually their gloves. I used to always have cold wet hands, grabbed a pair of their Goretex gloves about 5 years ago (that I STILL have although I've sewn the fingers up a couple times now), and they were so good I decided to start looking at their other stuff.

I would consider them the Toyota of the boarding world, they're the biggest, good reputation, but they're not the Ferrari. There are many boards more expensive and more fragile than Burton!

I do like the speedlace system too, will be trying other boots next time I'm shopping for them but enjoying the Driver X right now. 

OP, get out to a demo day. Get them to put the bindings you want on your board even... It's a great way to try!


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

I agree with some of the guys up there ^

I went to the shop (and searched online) with a totally open mind; checked Rome, Union, Ride and Burton bindings......... Union i have NO IDEA what their description means, plus saw some complains about the ratchets, so scrapped them (even though they seem to have good quality and i'd definitely like to try them). Rome and Ride totally pale in comparison when you have a Burton binding side by side... and that's not even considering the EST system.

so far, i couldn't be happier. I have two different sets of Burton bindings, and really, no complains at all.

Also, i'm yet to find anyone who uses Burton bindings complain about anything... 

(except fitment, but once you figure out your size, there's nothing more to that; and most shops/online and probably even Burton would change your bindings to another size if needed).

So, needless to say: Burton makes the best bindings. I dont own anything else from burton other than bindings (except a hoodie).... so i'm far from a fan. In fact, i'm not a fan of anything...


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## SuCoSlayer (Jan 5, 2014)

Soul06 said:


> This is what I've read via a Smithsonian site about Burton vs Sims


Interesting. It's good there was competition even from the start. Nothing is a catalyst for progression and innovation quite like competition.


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## Rob23 (Dec 4, 2013)

Just FYI Union has replaced their toe ratchets with new quick release ones that have no issues. Personally I bought last years model for very cheap then the shop threw in the newer ratchets for free when I mentioned it. Never had a problem with them. So don't over look them because of the toe ratchet problems, even with last year and older models you can easily replace them with the new ones.

Not saying they are the best, but they are a great binding.


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## jliu (Jan 20, 2009)

SuCoSlayer said:


> It's interesting that Sims, the company founded by the other guy who invented snowboarding, doesn't seem to be doing as well as Burton. Of course, no one else is doing as well as Burton either. Maybe Ride is a distant 2nd? K2, Salomon, Rossi, etc are different since they're in the ski business as well. I wonder how some of those companies would have fared had they not already been established in the ski game. Better? Worse? But, I digress...


Just an FYI, there is a lot of consolidation in the market that the average customer will not realize.

- Ride is owned by K2 which is owned by a multinational import export co. (Jarden). Actually Morrow and 5150 fall under them as well. Maybe even Rossignol too...
- Salomon/Bonfire Outerwear is owned by Amer sports (another multinational); 
- Union/Capita/Coal is owned (or forms) C3
- DC, Lib, GNU, Roxy are all brands under another publicially traded company...maybe you heard of them...Quiksilver.
- Electric is owned by Volcom
- Vonzipper --> Billabong

and the list goes on.... 

that leaves....rome, nitro, burton, ns, signal, and a lot of the smaller local labels.


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## UNION INHOUSE (Nov 13, 2012)

jliu said:


> Just an FYI, there is a lot of consolidation in the market that the average customer will not realize.
> 
> - Ride is owned by K2 which is owned by a multinational import export co. (Jarden). Actually Morrow and 5150 fall under them as well. Maybe even Rossignol too...
> - Salomon/Bonfire Outerwear is owned by Amer sports (another multinational);
> ...


The bolded statement above is a very common misconception. Not true. They are totally independent companies sharing distribution resources. 

C3 is an independent company itself, which handles distribution for the 3 brands. 

Several other false statements in this post, but I'll stick to ours.


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## jliu (Jan 20, 2009)

^^good to know...

Really...what others are false? I'm just curious really. I always enjoy learning about the business side of snowboarding.


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## jliu (Jan 20, 2009)

nvm i caught it....

Didn't know Quik sold Mervin (makers of Lib and GNU) in Oct.

Anything else?


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## belowe (Jan 12, 2014)

Oh the irony, the ratchet on my cartels today got all weird on me first run. It wasnt releasing if there was and force on the strap itself, even just the boot resisting compression. Just thought this was funny as I posted a good word on them today. Stiill love them though.


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## lab49232 (Sep 13, 2011)

jliu said:


> nvm i caught it....
> 
> Didn't know Quik sold Mervin (makers of Lib and GNU) in Oct.
> 
> Anything else?


Indeed. They were bought buy Altamont who is also buying up a lot of the companies left in shambles with the falling of the industry and Pacsun for example.


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## ek9max (Apr 8, 2013)

Rob23 said:


> I wouldn't say that I had a problem with the toe strap ratchets, but they are definitely stiff when releasing. As long as you set them up right and aren't ratcheting them too far, leave at least 6-7 teeth between the ratchet and the end of the strap if that makes sense. Also using the "push down then pull method" worked well like trapper said.
> 
> The shop I bought mine were big with Union so when I mentioned that they were stiff they just tossed me some of the newer ratchets with the quick release tab like the ankle straps have. Free of charge.



I got '14 factory also. Compared to my '13 forces, the toe racket is amazing. I don't even use the same method as the two of you guys and have never had a problem with the toe strap in the 15 times i've ridden them this year.


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## Ndanielson (Jan 20, 2014)

Union & Burton… I love Burton bindings, mostly the malavita, cartel, and diode. I also love the new union contact pros(with factory highbacks) the regular highback just wasn't stiff enough for me. The new Flux DLs and old DMCC's really are great bindings as well. My biggest complaint against burton, is value, their cheaper bindings(which aren't really that cheap) are shit, whereas with union, you get a solid quality product throughout their lineup. I also harbor angst against burton for shutting down "the program" and robbing their tech, but this is neither here nor there. 

Union #1 for best value, quality, and customer support
Burton #2 for quality product but at a steeper price


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## Extremo (Nov 6, 2008)

My top 3 are

Union
Raiden (I can't bring myself to call them Nitro)
Rome

Each have a binding for everything. All are high quality. I know Union and Rome have top notch customer service, having dealt with them personally. 

Burton and Ride are pretty close too, I just have a few issues with some of their features. But I'm pretty particular about my bindings.


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## jliu (Jan 20, 2009)

Hey Extremo. What do you think abt the nitro(raiden) phantoms?? Curious abt their ratchet quality (seems good). I know you're predominantly freestyle, but if you have exp with this binding do you think it's stiff enough for all mountain? Austin Smith seems to use these in the bc. Lol


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## Extremo (Nov 6, 2008)

jliu said:


> Hey Extremo. What do you think abt the nitro(raiden) phantoms?? Curious abt their ratchet quality (seems good). I know you're predominantly freestyle, but if you have exp with this binding do you think it's stiff enough for all mountain? Austin Smith seems to use these in the bc. Lol


The Phantoms I rode were from a few years ago. But they looks like they're still pretty similar in construction. Maybe a few others can comment on the new models if there have been any changes. When I rode them they were very good quality. Mid-stiff flex, smooth ratchets, comfortable ankle strap, responsive toe strap, great dampening, adjustable. I'd probably be riding them today if I didn't have my Unions.

Edit: Oh ya, I'd def recommend them for all mountain. They're pretty responsive. Had good support landing jumps. If you did a lot of jibbing then I'd probably recommend something else. But for bigger stuff, they handle it just fine.


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## Ndanielson (Jan 20, 2014)

jliu said:


> Hey Extremo. What do you think abt the nitro(raiden) phantoms?? Curious abt their ratchet quality (seems good). I know you're predominantly freestyle, but if you have exp with this binding do you think it's stiff enough for all mountain? Austin Smith seems to use these in the bc. Lol


I have last years phantoms… I definitely think they are stiff enough for all mountain. I ride the union contact pros, forum republic, union atlas team, raiden phantoms, and burton malavita. I've never had any issues with their ratchets, I dig the footbed(its just barely noticeable), and the high back is spot on for the stiffness I need for AM. They are solid 7 of 10 in the stiffness range… I rode the union chargers for awhile, but they were almost to stiff.


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## Klang180 (Feb 8, 2012)

Used to love Romes partly for the binding quality but also for the excellent customer service. However my pair of last year's Rome 390 Boss have already broken after about month on snow and the customer service department hasn't even responded to my request for a new toe strap.

They are losing a once very loyal customer. I'd say avoid them, the 390s used to be brilliant but they are very fiddly and the adjustability just isn't there.


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## UNION INHOUSE (Nov 13, 2012)

Klang180 said:


> Used to love Romes partly for the binding quality but also for the excellent customer service. However my pair of last year's Rome 390 Boss have already broken after about month on snow and the customer service department hasn't even responded to my request for a new toe strap.
> 
> They are losing a once very loyal customer. I'd say avoid them, the 390s used to be brilliant but they are very fiddly and the adjustability just isn't there.


Did you call them? If not, pick up that phone.


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## scotty100 (Apr 3, 2012)

Burton for me. Currently very happy with 2013 Malavita Reflex and 2014 Cartel EST. Bomber quality and durability.

Also tried Ride, Rome and K2. K2 and Ride ok but nothing special, found them to be quite heavy. My experience with Rome was not great. Mob binding I had a couple of years ago disintegrated after literally one run. Subsequent attempts to fix it with the help of their customer service was not great. Spotty response from their CS and just generally disappointed in the construction and quality of the materials / design they use for their bindings. Have avoided ever since.

If I add another board to the quiver I would like to demo Union and Flux next, or else just stick with Burton.


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## aistis (Jan 26, 2013)

hello,

do UNION BINDINGS-FACTORY TRAVIS RICE 2013/14 has improved ratchet system or no?

Thanks


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## surfinsnow (Feb 4, 2010)

Extremo said:


> Morrow or Lamar. Don't even bother with anything else.


We were at Stratton Sunday. A teenage girl in front of us on line had all the latest clothes -- and was riding a Lamar board/bindings BACKWARDS. Literally had the board backwards, logos upside down to her, shorter end of the board in front of her. I could only laugh...beyond help.


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## Lamps (Sep 3, 2011)

poutanen said:


> Burton. I use diodes on everything, they're stiff, the straps are comfy and they work for me.


This was my strategy till this year when I tried the new genesis on my Sherlock, I like them a lot on that board, diodes on my other two decks. Genesis is really comfortable, and has a nice two stage sort of response, soft a little at first then quite firm.


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## UNION INHOUSE (Nov 13, 2012)

aistis said:


> hello,
> 
> do UNION BINDINGS-FACTORY TRAVIS RICE 2013/14 has improved ratchet system or no?
> 
> Thanks


Yessir, they sure do.


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## trapper (Jan 15, 2013)

^The ratchets and straps on the Factory are awesome.


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## BoardChitless (Mar 11, 2013)

SuCoSlayer said:


> FORUM! There's a brand I'm going to miss. I had a forum board that I used as a park board for a season. It wasn't that great to be honest, but that team they had back in the late 90s/early 00's?! And the team films from Mack Dawg?! Damn. Too bad they went under. True Life is still one of my favorite movies.


Forum had the team!!! Even tho their boards were subpar back then, the team destroyed Burton's in the 90's. Then Burton buys Forum in like '08 or '09... rest is history. Some of you think Burton is the Ferrari of snowboards, some said Toyato, I think they are the Federales(American these days). Just buyin' up talent, and producing chit products and tech, and releasing a status quo that might not be as good as you think. Reason being, why a lot of smaller brands paved way past 2 decades with serious Teams.

When it comes to bindings, I don't diss Burton, but for boards, tech has evolved and Burton has been stagnant even though they are supposed to be the best boards. So, in short, I'd call Burton the Nike of snowboards. We all know if you're a serious runner - you buy NewBalance, Asics, Brooks, Saucony, etc... not Nike.

For boards advancements, Burton has been in the dust past decade. TBT from GST/Bataleon, Magnetraction & hybrid cambers from Mervin, DeathGrip & hybrid cambers from Capita/GST, Never Summer's new topsheets/cores, etc, etc - Burton's name does not come up for new board tech advancements.

If I'm not mistaken Mervin(Lib/Gnu) manufactures out of the PNW, Never Summer in CO. China has been a producer and has a couple plants like SBF, but internationally, GST is probably still the best in Austria. Nidecker is damn solid out of Switzerland, so their boards(& skis) are top notch in my opinion and that remains strong since the 80's/90's. But, a lot of what you are saying is true about Dubai being a producer now in earlier posts. Wakeboards and Kiteboards were always built there. Now with Elan's factory in Austria going downhill this past summer, Dubai's SWS plant was a great opportunity, so now Elan boards are being made there(Arbor and some others as well that were once in Europe). Japan and Taiwan were once beds for manufacturing snowboards, but that has since gone just like Burton producing a lot of boards in Vermont.

I know what you are saying about 'Made in the USA'. My board I was ridin' for close to 15years up to last season was a Ride Timeless... just a year or 2 before they moved production from the states to international cheap labor & material. So, to go back to what you are asking, I don't think any bindings are made in the USA. I think in the 90's possibly, but now everything is overseas. And, personally, I think Burton has lined up the right int'l manufacturing co's and so has Union as far as bindings go. 

I can't knock Burton's EST tech, but I knock the concept of changing the game for compatibility - although I have heard EST makes sense for maneuverability, and also puts less stress on your board, so their R&D did leave room for some tech advancement(although EST is annoying for many in the buyer's market trying to match bindings now with particular boards) and increases sustainability of the product. But, like I said earlier, Burton is the Federales... and they just changed the game for many others by the flick of their wand.

Burton still out produces anyone... don't think that will ever stop. Burton is in the market to be the Nike.

Side Note: Burton is in the business now for Market Share... not for the quality of the board they made/make. Their roots have left them, and they look for profit margins like any big co trying to get bigger...


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## linvillegorge (Jul 6, 2009)

Flux and Union. I prefer my board companies to focus on boards and my binding companies to focus on bindings.


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## Caffeine (Oct 15, 2013)

BoardChitless said:


> Forum had the team!!! Even tho their boards were subpar back then, the team destroyed Burton's in the 90's. Then Burton buys Forum in like '08 or '09... rest is history. Some of you think Burton is the Ferrari of snowboards, some said Toyato, I think they are the Federales(American these days). Just buyin' up talent, and producing chit products and tech, and releasing a status quo that might not be as good as you think. Reason being, why a lot of smaller brands paved way past 2 decades with serious Teams.
> 
> When it comes to bindings, I don't diss Burton, but for boards, tech has evolved and Burton has been stagnant even though they are supposed to be the best boards. So, in short, I'd call Burton the Nike of snowboards. We all know if you're a serious runner - you buy NewBalance, Asics, Brooks, Saucony, etc... not Nike.
> 
> ...


LOL how about the channel which makes inserts look archaic as hell? And Burton boards being stagnant in technology advancements in the last 10 years? Look at a Burton board from 10 years ago and one from now. If you can't see advancement your blind.


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## linvillegorge (Jul 6, 2009)

Burton has definitely advanced their boards in the last 10 years, but I don't see how the channel system makes standard inserts looks archaic. What advantage does it really offer other than ease of adjustment of stance? Who is really tweaking their stance adjustments once their bindings are mounted anyway. I know my preferred stance width and angles and it takes me just a couple of minutes to mount up bindings on a new board. I just don't really get the point of the channel system other than Burton having a better chance of selling you Burton bindings with that Burton board. From the business angle, I completely get it. It's just smart business.


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## BoardChitless (Mar 11, 2013)

Caffeine said:


> LOL how about the channel which makes inserts look archaic as hell? And Burton boards being stagnant in technology advancements in the last 10 years? Look at a Burton board from 10 years ago and one from now. If you can't see advancement your blind.


You're right, they have advanced of course, I was embellishing/ranting. I should have said - The rate of advancement is not what I've come to expect from the industry's leader/pioneer on boards.

By the way, if you know where to get a Made in USA Burton board from the Vermont plant several years back maybe 10years ago, let me know... I'll buy it.


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## ttccnn (Mar 31, 2011)

BoardChitless said:


> You're right, they have advanced of course, I was embellishing/ranting. I should have said - The rate of advancement is not what I've come to expect from the industry's leader/pioneer on boards.
> 
> By the way, if you know where to get a Made in USA Burton board from the Vermont plant several years back maybe 10years ago, let me know... I'll buy it.


Burton Moonshine Snowboard Made in Vermont | Men's Snowboards | Snowboards | Darkside Snowboard Shop

Burton Moonshine - 158 Assorte - Shred Shop

the burton board that is still made in VT. just FYI


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## surfinsnow (Feb 4, 2010)

I can't believe people are still mentioning Burton, the Walmart of snowboarding. Wow. 

Forgive me…I guess I'm a gear snob. NS board, made in Denver. Flow bindings, yeah, probably made in China but the best goddamn customer service I've ever experienced. They even FedEx'd repair parts (for free) to a local shop in Tahoe when I got off the plane and found my binding broken. No questions asked. Burton? At least Lamar has some old-school charm.


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## linvillegorge (Jul 6, 2009)

surfinsnow said:


> I can't believe people are still mentioning Burton, the Walmart of snowboarding. Wow.
> 
> Forgive me…I guess I'm a gear snob. NS board, made in Denver. Flow bindings, yeah, probably made in China but the best goddamn customer service I've ever experienced. They even FedEx'd repair parts (for free) to a local shop in Tahoe when I got off the plane and found my binding broken. No questions asked. Burton? At least Lamar has some old-school charm.


I love NS boards. The damn things are built great.

However, after years of riding NS, I have to admit that I've soured on the brand. What that brand stands for and represents is far different than it was 5 years ago. Just watch the way some of their employees act on the mountain and when representing NS at events. All I'm going to say is that I'm disappointed in a great local brand that makes great products. I'm not going to elaborate or comment beyond that. I don't want to start yet another NS shit storm on this forum.


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## Banjo (Jan 29, 2013)

Fairly surprised nobody has mentioned NOW bindings. Huge up and comer with amazing customer service, and a product that is a huge contrast to everything out there and is backed by some of the best riders in the industry. I know they have had some quality issues, but who hasn't had a hiccup year...plus it was their first year.

I spent 3 days in whitefish (where CassMT and I failed at our game of "where's waldo" trying to meet up) and above all the biggest thing I noticed about the NOWs is how fresh my legs were everyday for the whole day. The ease of engaging turns has saved my old banged up legs.


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## linvillegorge (Jul 6, 2009)

I definitely wanna give NOWs a shot. Just haven't had a chance to demo and I don't wanna buy without trying them first.


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## 24WERD (May 9, 2012)

burton gets a bad rap b/c they produced everything under one umbrella.

Let me explain, when co. have various product lines with different qualities, price-point boards with higher end boards it devalues the brand.

They need to produce the low end boards under a different names. Burton Family tree line is good. all the other stuff is pretty much crap. It'll be like if Lexus has a pricepoint car at 10,000$ competing with Kia. 

Neversummer produce mostly mt, freeride boards on the higher end point. they aren't competing with the jib board market like rome boards.

libtech gnu mervin boards are also on the higher end of the spectrum of boards not producting anything under retail 400$.

Anyways , back to bindings - Union for the win, Flux binding are good , esp the higher end ones. The burton buckles are nice, but don't like how the heel cup is not adjustable and not good for centering on my 10.5 boot.

Pretty much all my friends have union and flux. are there any other binding companies?


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## nsrider121 (Jan 22, 2012)

I've got my eye on Nitro Phantom Bindings as a responsive all mountain binding. Anyone have experience with them? I've generally heard good things about Nitro/Raiden bindings.


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## surfinsnow (Feb 4, 2010)

linvillegorge said:


> I love NS boards. The damn things are built great.
> 
> However, after years of riding NS, I have to admit that I've soured on the brand. What that brand stands for and represents is far different than it was 5 years ago. Just watch the way some of their employees act on the mountain and when representing NS at events. All I'm going to say is that I'm disappointed in a great local brand that makes great products. I'm not going to elaborate or comment beyond that. I don't want to start yet another NS shit storm on this forum.


Thanks for the heads-up. I'm riding an NS Titan, from whatever the last year they made them. I love it, but it's beat up and I'm ready for a new board. I've been wanting to demo a rocker or combo r/c board. I'll look into NS some more. While the board is awesome, I've no real loyalty to the company. I'd be happy for other recs. When I bought the Titan, it was a choice between NS and Arbor. Just please, please don't tell me Burton! :laugh:

BTW...I don't do park. All mountain, freeride only, that is why I wound up with the Titan. Stiff board, stiff boots (Thirty Two Focus Boa), stiff bindings (Flow NXT FRX). In it for speed, bombing downhill, not doing tricks.


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## SkullAndXbones (Feb 24, 2014)

i have Rome Targa bindings and i would not recommend them. don't get me wrong though, they're made well and everything but Vans, 32, and i think DC boots do not fit in the bindings. i bought all knew stuff last year (board, bindings, and boots) and i bought the biggest size Targa binding that they make because i wear a 10.5/11 sized boot and i bought 32 boots and they were too wide for the bindings so i returned the boots. my old boots are Vans and they were also too wide. so i ended up buy Rome boots because i was sure they would fit.


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## UNION INHOUSE (Nov 13, 2012)

24WERD said:


> burton gets a bad rap b/c they produced everything under one umbrella.
> 
> Let me explain, when co. have various product lines with different qualities, price-point boards with higher end boards it devalues the brand.
> 
> ...


:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:


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## BFBF (Jan 15, 2012)

linvillegorge said:


> I love NS boards. The damn things are built great.
> 
> However, after years of riding NS, I have to admit that I've soured on the brand. What that brand stands for and represents is far different than it was 5 years ago. Just watch the way some of their employees act on the mountain and when representing NS at events. All I'm going to say is that I'm disappointed in a great local brand that makes great products. I'm not going to elaborate or comment beyond that. I don't want to start yet another NS shit storm on this forum.


Amen brother.
NS has pretty much gone mainstream at this point.

If you're going to stay/support "local" as in CO and want a quality freeride deck, do yourself a favor and pick up a Venture(I have 2- a zelix and Skylar)--- the build quality and dampening make the current NS products feel like Fisher Price toys in comparison.

And proudly handmade in Silverton, CO.


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## poutanen (Dec 22, 2011)

surfinsnow said:


> I can't believe people are still mentioning Burton, the Walmart of snowboarding. Wow.
> 
> Forgive me…I guess I'm a gear snob. NS board, made in Denver. Flow bindings, yeah, probably made in China but the best goddamn customer service I've ever experienced. They even FedEx'd repair parts (for free) to a local shop in Tahoe when I got off the plane and found my binding broken. No questions asked. Burton? At least Lamar has some old-school charm.


You're a gear snob but buy a mass produced board?!? :dunno: Sure it's built in 'murica, but a true gear snob would have a custom made board.

You're like the guy that drinks Heiniken and insults people that buy Coors.


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## Banjo (Jan 29, 2013)

poutanen said:


> You're like the guy that drinks Heiniken and insults people that buy Coors.


:laugh::laugh: nailed it


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## surfinsnow (Feb 4, 2010)

poutanen said:


> You're a gear snob but buy a mass produced board?!? :dunno: Sure it's built in 'murica, but a true gear snob would have a custom made board.
> 
> You're like the guy that drinks Heiniken and insults people that buy Coors.


:laugh: Point taken…but the Titan wasn't really that "mass produced" then, and NS wasn't quite as mainstream. I got #406 out of 900, but I've never seen another Titan on the mountains. Ever. I see a bazillion of the same Burton boards, though. I looked into getting a truly custom board made, but I honestly don't know enough about construction to feel comfortable doing it that way. I was shopping for a stiff freeride board and the Titan offered the best combo of specs, and not being stamped out in China. I'd be happy to take some recommendations…who should make make next board?


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## surfinsnow (Feb 4, 2010)

Banjo said:


> :laugh::laugh: nailed it


Actually, I'm not like that at all, but it was a funny quote! BTW, you should try the stout I bought up at a beer tasting while at Loon! 'Tis a fine brew she is!


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## BFBF (Jan 15, 2012)

surfinsnow said:


> :laugh: Point taken…but the Titan wasn't really that "mass produced" then, and NS wasn't quite as mainstream. I got #406 out of 900, but I've never seen another Titan on the mountains. Ever. I see a bazillion of the same Burton boards, though. I looked into getting a truly custom board made, but I honestly don't know enough about construction to feel comfortable doing it that way. I was shopping for a stiff freeride board and the Titan offered the best combo of specs, and not being stamped out in China. I'd be happy to take some recommendations…who should make make next board?


Get a venture Odin 
"I've never ridden anything stiffer". Muahahah


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## poutanen (Dec 22, 2011)

surfinsnow said:


> I see a bazillion of the same Burton boards, though. I looked into getting a truly custom board made, but I honestly don't know enough about construction to feel comfortable doing it that way. I was shopping for a stiff freeride board and the Titan offered the best combo of specs, and not being stamped out in China. I'd be happy to take some recommendations…who should make make next board?


If you're looking for stiff freeride, I have no experience with Venture but both the fiancee and I have Priors (handmade in Whistler) and I like them a lot. The price is also reasonable for a handbuilt board (around $700 CDN unless you ask them for a deal, or find a pre-built board with graphics that you like)

The fiancee has the womens version of the Mens FreeRide (MFR) and it took her from being an average boarder, to having the tools to really ride all the terrain we have out west, and ride it well. 

I have an older version of the Khyber, and it's got tons of float, but also carves hardpack quite well.

Prior Snowboards

Though no matter how many boards I try, I keep going back to my Virus Avalanche FLP AFT. It's just too good at everything freeride.


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## scotty100 (Apr 3, 2012)

surfinsnow said:


> :laugh: Point taken…but the Titan wasn't really that "mass produced" then, and NS wasn't quite as mainstream. I got #406 out of 900, but I've never seen another Titan on the mountains. Ever. I see a bazillion of the same Burton boards, though. I looked into getting a truly custom board made, but I honestly don't know enough about construction to feel comfortable doing it that way. I was shopping for a stiff freeride board and the Titan offered the best combo of specs, and not being stamped out in China. I'd be happy to take some recommendations…who should make make next board?


How is NS "mainstream"?! They have one factory in CO and employ approx. 70 people for their hand made snowboards and longboards. The quality and durability of their products has earned them a wider audience over the last 5 years. To a couple of "lead users" on here who boost competitor brands, that small amount of success is enough to have apparently turned NS into a big bad corporation overnight...one who has forgotten they are only supposed to be in business to satisfy 20% of their state's local "core riders"...hence, they are now no longer worthy of approval. Whatever.

Stick around here long enough and you'll notice the usual "build 'em up, knock 'em down" bs. For example, the last 3 years Union have apparently sucked balls, this year they are cool again. Were they ever that bad to begin with? Of course not. Next year, who knows...same old same old.

And your comments on Burton are asinine. Who else over the last 2 decades can match their level of commitment to R&D? Their track record in tech development speaks for itself. They lead where others follow.


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## Booo! (Feb 14, 2014)

scotty100 said:


> How is NS "mainstream"?! They have one factory in CO and employ approx. 70 people for their hand made snowboards and longboards. The quality and durability of their products has earned them a wider audience over the last 5 years. To a couple of "lead users" on here who boost competitor brands, that small amount of success is enough to have apparently turned NS into a big bad corporation overnight...one who has forgotten they are only supposed to be in business to satisfy 20% of their state's local "core riders"...hence, they are now no longer worthy of approval. Whatever.
> 
> Stick around here long enough and you'll notice the usual "build 'em up, knock 'em down" bs. For example, the last 3 years Union have apparently sucked balls, this year they are cool again. Were they ever that bad to begin with? Of course not. Next year, who knows...same old same old.
> 
> And your comments on Burton are asinine. Who else over the last 2 decades can match their level of commitment to R&D? Their track record in tech development speaks for itself. They lead where others follow.


I'm considering switching to snowblades altogether because snowboarding has become too "mainstream."


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## linvillegorge (Jul 6, 2009)

scotty100 said:


> How is NS "mainstream"?! They have one factory in CO and employ approx. 70 people for their hand made snowboards and longboards. The quality and durability of their products has earned them a wider audience over the last 5 years. To a couple of "lead users" on here who boost competitor brands, that small amount of success is enough to have apparently turned NS into a big bad corporation overnight...one who has forgotten they are only supposed to be in business to satisfy 20% of their state's local "core riders"...hence, they are now no longer worthy of approval. Whatever.
> 
> Stick around here long enough and you'll notice the usual "build 'em up, knock 'em down" bs. For example, the last 3 years Union have apparently sucked balls, this year they are cool again. Were they ever that bad to begin with? Of course not. Next year, who knows...same old same old.
> 
> And your comments on Burton are asinine. Who else over the last 2 decades can match their level of commitment to R&D? Their track record in tech development speaks for itself. They lead where others follow.


QFT

There's a lot of "snowboarding hipsters" out there. :laugh:


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## surfinsnow (Feb 4, 2010)

scotty100 said:


> How is NS "mainstream"?! They have one factory in CO and employ approx. 70 people for their hand made snowboards and longboards. The quality and durability of their products has earned them a wider audience over the last 5 years. To a couple of "lead users" on here who boost competitor brands, that small amount of success is enough to have apparently turned NS into a big bad corporation overnight...one who has forgotten they are only supposed to be in business to satisfy 20% of their state's local "core riders"...hence, they are now no longer worthy of approval. Whatever.
> 
> Stick around here long enough and you'll notice the usual "build 'em up, knock 'em down" bs. For example, the last 3 years Union have apparently sucked balls, this year they are cool again. Were they ever that bad to begin with? Of course not. Next year, who knows...same old same old.
> 
> And your comments on Burton are asinine. Who else over the last 2 decades can match their level of commitment to R&D? Their track record in tech development speaks for itself. They lead where others follow.


Yeah, I get that. On this forum you're only supposed to like stuff no one else has ever heard of. Your crazy Uncle Sterno makes the best awesomest board out of old birch trees and WWII tank parts! Whatever. I love my Titan. It's a rock-solid board that has got me through 60 mph runs on Vermont hard-pack and thigh-deep powder in Tahoe. But I've beaten the crap out of it, and I'm looking at maybe getting a new board. I know I won't be getting a Burton or a Chinese made production board. I know there are only three real manufacturers outside of the small shops like NS. That's what drew me to NS in the first place. I might buy another, but they changed their product line and I'm not sure anymore. We'll see. Not trying to trash anyone...except maybe Burton.


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## poutanen (Dec 22, 2011)

surfinsnow said:


> Yeah, I get that. On this forum you're only supposed to like stuff no one else has ever heard of.


I wouldn't say that at all, there's a lot of Burton love here, Union love, etc. There's also an equal amount of skeptics. I'd say we're pretty balanced.

I've got all Burton bindings on my boards, and I use Burton boots, but I've got away from Burton boards in the last couple years. After they discontinued the T6/T7 line there was nothing in their line that interested me, until the Landlord came out. Now I'd like to demo one if they have a demo day out here soon...


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