# First 360, could you give me pointers?



## Lifprasir (Jan 11, 2011)

first 360s - YouTube

So I finally landed a 360 at last. It looks so much uglier than I remembered it to be. Anyways, I noticed that I need to suck my knees earlier, which will let me push harder and I need to speed up a tiny bit more. My hands somehow are on the wrong side, which makes it look really awkward.. and I should suck in my knees during the spinning motion. It looks like I'm landing tail heavy, was it because I threw my shoulder a bit too high?


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## Jed (May 11, 2011)

Lifprasir said:


> first 360s - YouTube
> 
> So I finally landed a 360 at last. It looks so much uglier than I remembered it to be. Anyways, I noticed that I need to suck my knees earlier, which will let me push harder and I need to speed up a tiny bit more. My hands somehow are on the wrong side, which makes it look really awkward.. and I should suck in my knees during the spinning motion. It looks like I'm landing tail heavy, was it because I threw my shoulder a bit too high?


I don't see any real issues with your knees. Yeah you could have brought them up more and you should definitely throw a grab into that spin too, but it wasn't that bad.

The bigger problem I saw was your spin setup technique that relied entirely on your upper body and pre-winding just before you left the lip.

*1) Carve*

I didn't see any carving to create rotation.

It seemed to be all coming from your pre-wind and pop, which is fine once you get more advanced, but right now your pre-wind and pop are very rough and you're getting basically zero rotation help from your carve (or lack of carve.

If you carve correctly you won't need to pop so hard and the 360 won't look so forced by your body because your body is assisting with the 360, not create the entire rotation.

example here: The Secret To An Effortless 360 Rotation - The Perfect Carve Line

If you combine what you're doing now (pop+upper body rotation) with carving correctly, you'll find you don't have to pop as hard or throw the spin as hard with your body and it'll make it way easier to spin a smooth 360.
*
2) Land blind*

You over-rotated your frontside 360 because you didn't spot your landing correctly.

Frontside 360s should be landed blind. So you basically need to be looking down/back uphill as you ride away. If you try to turn your head to look downhill you'll slip into a 540, which is what you did in the video.

Only turn your head to look downhill after you've stomped the trick and are riding away clean.


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## Lifprasir (Jan 11, 2011)

Okay, I'll test out the carving thing next time I go to the mountains. As for landing blindly. I wasn't trying to get a view of the landing, I just froze my entire upper body with my head once I left the lip, I could've basically closed my eyes and done the spin :laugh:. So I should aim to look at the uphill when I spin front 3's>?

Can you confirm me if I popped off my heel edges in the video? I have this image in my head that if I carve, I'll be popping off my heel edge and end up off axis... :/ thanks!


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## Jed (May 11, 2011)

Lifprasir said:


> Okay, I'll test out the carving thing next time I go to the mountains. As for landing blindly. I wasn't trying to get a view of the landing, I just froze my entire upper body with my head once I left the lip, I could've basically closed my eyes and done the spin :laugh:. So I should aim to look at the uphill when I spin front 3's>?


Yep - front 360s are basically always landed with that blind landing instead of trying to turn your head downhill to spot the landing.

It's similar to how you'd land a backside 180 by looking back uphill/down at your feet as you land to stop the rotation.

As far as your heel edge goes, you're meant to pop off your heel edge on frontside 360s. In your video you popped off your heels as well, even though it was a very late heel edge with no carve.

Some people do frontside spins off their toes to get more pop, but the majority of people spin frontside off their heels.


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## GOskiLF_bum (Feb 5, 2013)

i agree w/ jed....during your carve keep both legs flexed. it looks as if you're extending your right leg which is pushing your hips to the tail of the board. keeping both knees flexed in line (parallel) w/ the board will help your carve and help you spin. this will also help you pop off by extending the flexed legs.


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## Lifprasir (Jan 11, 2011)

GOskiLF_bum said:


> i agree w/ jed....during your carve keep both legs flexed. it looks as if you're extending your right leg which is pushing your hips to the tail of the board. keeping both knees flexed in line (parallel) w/ the board will help your carve and help you spin. this will also help you pop off by extending the flexed legs.


Oh I didn't notice that only my left knee was bended.. That explains why I always tend to fall back.. thanks lol xD


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## Lifprasir (Jan 11, 2011)

Okay so I took your tips. Creating the platform was really easy since I always used to do it but I didn't do it this season for some reason. When I did this, I always over-rotated even when I stopped my heads rotation on the knuckle for blind landing.. Am I supposed to counter-rotate as soon as I have a view of the knuckle to control the rotation?


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## GOskiLF_bum (Feb 5, 2013)

i have the same struggles. what i found easiest for me was landing blind and holding my head looking back at the jump for an extra second or two. I found myself landing blind then rotating my head too quickly to see where I was going, which was making me want to continue my spin on the ground (revert). my advice...look back at the jump for an extra second or two before you rotate your head back to the normal position.


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## ig88 (Jan 3, 2012)

Jed said:


> ......
> 
> If you carve correctly you won't need to pop so hard and the 360 won't look so forced by your body because your body is assisting with the 360, not create the entire rotation.
> 
> example here: The Secret To An Effortless 360 Rotation - The Perfect Carve Line ......


Hello Jed, I have watched your other POV video on 360 practice on green runs. Thanks for the detailed narration throughout the video. Your idea is great. Would you happen to have a video of such a practice run with another person filming you? I want to know how much space you are taking up around you, and how high you got off the ground as you practicing a drill like this on the green run.


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## Jed (May 11, 2011)

ig88 said:


> Hello Jed, I have watched your other POV video on 360 practice on green runs. Thanks for the detailed narration throughout the video. Your idea is great. Would you happen to have a video of such a practice run with another person filming you? I want to know how much space you are taking up around you, and how high you got off the ground as you practicing a drill like this on the green run.


Unfortunately I don't have 3rd person POV video.

Basically I picture a small run in for a jump and do my carve within that area. It's not so important how wide it is, but rather it's more about focusing on getting your carve correct within your imaginary run-in.

As for how high you get off the ground, that's not really important either. As long as you can pop correctly and get off the ground, it's fine. The exercise is more about learning to pop correctly with the right timing than it is about popping hard/high.


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## ig88 (Jan 3, 2012)

Jed said:


> Unfortunately I don't have 3rd person POV video.
> 
> Basically I picture a small run in for a jump and do my carve within that area. It's not so important how wide it is, but rather it's more about focusing on getting your carve correct within your imaginary run-in.
> 
> As for how high you get off the ground, that's not really important either. As long as you can pop correctly and get off the ground, it's fine. The exercise is more about learning to pop correctly with the right timing than it is about popping hard/high.


It's ok. It's just that I think I have fallen into the silly trap of believing popping higher, would make me do 360 easier on green runs ...... which is wrong obviously. I read your website and I know you are an advocate of using a good carving technique rather than using excessive brunt popping force, to achieving 360. It is this preparatory carving and the critical timing of the subsequent pop I cannot nail down on green runs. Hence I am craving to watch a video to see you demo it from a third person's perspective.

I have read and seen other youtube videos teaching the ground trick FS 360 by first doing heel side pressuring, then nollie, let board rotate about 30-40 degrees (some even say 90 degrees) then hurl yourself into the air rotating what's remaining of the 360. That seems to make sense but it's awfully difficult and too technical to do so many steps. Your teaching seems to omit all that initial nollie stuff and I am more in favor of trying out your method. Cheers.


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## Jed (May 11, 2011)

ig88 said:


> It's ok. It's just that I think I have fallen into the silly trap of believing popping higher, would make me do 360 easier on green runs ...... which is wrong obviously. I read your website and I know you are an advocate of using a good carving technique rather than using excessive brunt popping force, to achieving 360. It is this preparatory carving and the critical timing of the subsequent pop I cannot nail down on green runs. Hence I am craving to watch a video to see you demo it from a third person's perspective.
> 
> I have read and seen other youtube videos teaching the ground trick FS 360 by first doing heel side pressuring, then nollie, let board rotate about 30-40 degrees (some even say 90 degrees) then hurl yourself into the air rotating what's remaining of the 360. That seems to make sense but it's awfully difficult and too technical to do so many steps. Your teaching seems to omit all that initial nollie stuff and I am more in favor of trying out your method. Cheers.


I'd definitely recommend checking out the snowboard addiction free trick tips if you haven't already (How to 360, 540 and 720 Frontside or Backside (regular riders) from Snowboard Addiction. - YouTube). You can basically see what my 360s look like, since basically everyone 360s this way.

What my advice is basically doing is taking the same technique described in that video, but learning the timing and technique on green runs first. So everything up until release point should be the same as a jump 360 setup in the video, except obviously you don't get any real air like you would off a jump.


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## ig88 (Jan 3, 2012)

Jed said:


> I'd definitely recommend checking out the snowboard addiction free trick tips if you haven't already (How to 360, 540 and 720 Frontside or Backside (regular riders) from Snowboard Addiction. - YouTube). You can basically see what my 360s look like, since basically everyone 360s this way.
> 
> What my advice is basically doing is taking the same technique described in that video, but learning the timing and technique on green runs first. So everything up until release point should be the same as a jump 360 setup in the video, except obviously you don't get any real air like you would off a jump.


Thanks Jed. I did watch that video and I have just watched it again. I don't know how to apply the (jump) things they teach on just the green runs though. Your idea is great but I just wish I could see how you do 360 one after another just on green runs, as opposed to off jumps (in SA videos) from a third person POV (to quote your words).


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## Extremo (Nov 6, 2008)

If you have your 180's on lock you'd know you don't need any pointers. 360's are practically effortless after you learn the 180. 

You want a pointer. Learn your 180's. It's that simple.


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## ig88 (Jan 3, 2012)

Extremo said:


> If you have your 180's on lock you'd know you don't need any pointers. 360's are practically effortless after you learn the 180.
> 
> You want a pointer. Learn your 180's. It's that simple.


Got it. Yes I will. Thanks Extremo.


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