# It's weird, but I'm not even really thinking about the season yet



## AgingPunk (Feb 18, 2014)

Thoughts of this season popped up here and there this summer, mostly the sand and rum kept me occupied. That said, as soon as I trade in my flip flops and shorts for pants and shoes when school starts it's ever present. Looking at Steamboat or Telluride for Christmas, leaning Telluride with El Nino, not sure for spring break yet. Got 20 days last year, aiming for 25 this year. Oh and my wife caught her first fish this summer: a nice keeper fluke!


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## Brewtown (Feb 16, 2014)

Didn't golf as much as usual and when I did it was a struggle to break 90. I also have a girlfriend who wants me to move in with her. I can't wait to get back on a snowboard.


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

We had a similar fate here. Continuous downpour July n August. I live directly at a lake but haven't been wearing a bikini even once. Lake was freezing 16°C all summer - yiiks. Yea, I'm a wimp if it comes to cold water . XC comps so far were mud feasts, if not canceled. 

So I actually enjoy the rather mild autumn days now and hope they'll last some weeks. Still 4 comps to come.


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## Kevin137 (May 5, 2013)

Here it is different, we have a pretty good summer, compared to the last few years, and winter is coming quickly, and with the young one already well into his training with the snowboarding school, and one of the best parks in Norway announcing they will have the park up and running on the 1st of November, it looks like we could be on the snow in as little as 6 weeks...!!!

That will be awesome if it happens... Hehe


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## Big Foot (Jan 15, 2013)

I'm not nearly as pumped for this season because I know I-70 traffic is going to be worse this year than it's ever been in the past. I actually ended my season at the end of April last year because I couldn't stand the traffic anymore.


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## linvillegorge (Jul 6, 2009)

Big Foot said:


> I'm not nearly as pumped for this season because I know I-70 traffic is going to be worse this year than it's ever been in the past. I actually ended my season at the end of April last year because I couldn't stand the traffic anymore.


It's been beyond brutal for most of this summer.


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## Simon Birch (Mar 11, 2014)

linvillegorge take all the money you would have spent golfing and buy yourself a PYL, you deserve it and it calling for you.


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## linvillegorge (Jul 6, 2009)

Meh, traded for a Slash Straight recently. I think I'm good on the board front. Though I would be interested in a 158ish NS Evo, Flow Era, or something similar.

Currently looking to buy a trampoline though.


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## BurtonAvenger (Aug 14, 2007)

By the time my season ended summer was over.


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## cookiedog (Mar 3, 2014)

linvillegorge said:


> It's been beyond brutal for most of this summer.


How bad was it?


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## kalev (Dec 17, 2013)

We had a smoking hot summer, so after the 25th consecutive day of 30+ degrees Celsius I was done with it - can't wait for the snow


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## ridinbend (Aug 2, 2012)

linvillegorge said:


> Usually by this time of year I'm chomping at the bit to get back out there. Not really the case this year. I think it's because we never really had much of a summer. And hell, I've traveled so much that I haven't really been able to participate in my usual summer activities. I normally golf at least 20 rounds and get in about that many days of fishing too. I've golfed exactly once and fished maybe five times. It's like summer never even happened.


I had an identical summer. Picked up way too much OT and summer flew over me. Only camped once, two rounds of golf, a couple days of fishing and no backpacking. i can relate completely. So pissed. I'm also out of shape. Autumn is your oyster. Btw, is golf cheap in your area? 20 rounds is a fun summer. Can't golf for less than $60 a round and when the wife plays too, it's not even reasonable. I did play 9 on Sunday, shot a lifetime best 39 with a lip out on my birdie putt on 9. Fuck yeah!

I had to move April 1 and ended up moving to a drier area of town into a log house. Holy shit, four weeks of temps in the high 90's cooked my ass in this wooden oven with no ac. Probably won't do it again.


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## snowklinger (Aug 30, 2011)

Today was my 2nd day off with my wife this summer, maybe my 4th day off in the last 100.

At this point its not so much about anticipation as much as figuring out how to shed a bunch of this work without stopping the machine...


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## Fewdfreak (May 13, 2013)

I know how you all feel... I started mountain biking this summer more seriously and last month upgraded my Walmart bike into a a nicer one I rebuilt from Ebay and just finished it last week and it rained for like 4 days straight on my off days... Got to take it out for the first time yesterday and it had recently rained so it was a shitty time and all muddy and real life had gotten in the way the past three weeks where I hadn't worked out so I was outta shape... Don't know what imma do between Oct and Dec but I need to run or something active or I will go crazy!


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## BurtonAvenger (Aug 14, 2007)

Fewdfreak said:


> Don't know what imma do between Oct and Dec but I need to run or something active or I will go crazy!


Those are referred to as the rest months, you hibernate!


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## linvillegorge (Jul 6, 2009)

Hell, I hope we have another season when everything is full go by Thanksgiving. That'd be pretty sweet.


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## BurtonAvenger (Aug 14, 2007)

I'm hoping for fire, brimstone, and swamp donkeys.


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## Argo (Feb 25, 2010)

I'm ready for snow. I'm getting kinda tired of biking and hiking. Probably heading to Vegas then Moab this weekend to chill then camp, bike ride and hike some more. 

It hasn't really been summer here, more like a really long spring straight in to fall.....

Also, don't care about i70 problems... Wake up and walk to the lift.... Everyone should live like this....


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## jjb7733 (Feb 1, 2014)

is the tunnel in Idaho Springs gonna be fixed before the season starts?


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## BurtonAvenger (Aug 14, 2007)

jjb7733 said:


> is the tunnel in Idaho Springs gonna be fixed before the season starts?


That will probably be done before the road into Breck is finished.


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## linvillegorge (Jul 6, 2009)

jjb7733 said:


> is the tunnel in Idaho Springs gonna be fixed before the season starts?


Not supposed to be finished until the fall of 2015. In other words, we have another full snowboarding season AND another full summer to deal with this bullshit.

Best news? Back to the same as it ever was once it's done. The expanded tunnel won't make a lick of difference until the rest of I-70 is widened to three lanes to Georgetown. Even then, you're only moving the bottleneck from Idaho Springs up to the hill at Georgetown. I-70 isn't getting any better, folks. This is a bandaid on a shotgun wound. It's not about making I-70 better, it's a desperate attempt to keep it from getting any worse.


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## BurtonAvenger (Aug 14, 2007)

I stick to the simple solution of everyone should just go to Monarch.


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## linvillegorge (Jul 6, 2009)

BurtonAvenger said:


> I stick to the simple solution of everyone should just go to Monarch.


Don't fool yourself. They'd just go the back way to Breck via Hoosier Pass. Everyone that was gonna head to Copper, Vail, etc. would ALL end up at Breck.


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## jjb7733 (Feb 1, 2014)

I went to monarch once last year on a saturday powder day, the lines were crazy long and they had the breezeway lift shut down, otherwise I thought they had some nice trees to ride, granted I have only ever been to monarch and loveland, so I don't know what to expect and this year will be an adventure for me with an epic pass


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## snowklinger (Aug 30, 2011)

Monarch is cool but it is full bullshit mode on the weekends. It is the local for CO Springs, which has by far the worst demographic in the state. And it only takes 300 people to make it crowded.


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## BurtonAvenger (Aug 14, 2007)

snowklinger said:


> Monarch is cool but it is full bullshit mode on the weekends. It is the local for CO Springs, which has by far the worst demographic in the state. And it only takes 300 people to make it crowded.


Colorado Springs isn't a part of Colorado. It's like mini south west. Thems people is crazy.


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## deagol (Mar 26, 2014)

population growth on the Front Range will wipe out any benefit of improvements to I-70. 

as far as this summer goes, it was pretty good for me: three one-week trips (canyoneering in Utah, river trip through Dinosaur National Monument, and a kayaking, biking, hiking trip to Grand Teton). Shorter trips to the mountains thrown in when possible (including meeting Argo for a sweet MTB ride above Vail). Got solar panels installed on my house. Still have a fall trip to Durango planned for some more biking. 

Kind of tired, though .... 
Not looking forward to the I-70 chaos this winter.


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## killclimbz (Aug 10, 2007)

The Tunnel is supposed to be done by the end of this year. Last year, the Eastbound bore was done by the first or second week of December. It did make a rather big difference traffic wise. Sure there were the backups, but the duration was much less. 

I don't expect as big of a bang for your buck on the West bound route since it just goes to two lanes right after the tunnel.

This spring is when they start widening the highway to three lanes to US 40. Once that is completed, it's going to cost you to use that extra lane. Here come the tolls...


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## killclimbz (Aug 10, 2007)

deagol said:


> population growth on the Front Range will wipe out any benefit of improvements to I-70.
> 
> as far as this summer goes, it was pretty good for me: three one-week trips (canyoneering in Utah, river trip through Dinosaur National Monument, and a kayaking, biking, hiking trip to Grand Teton). Shorter trips to the mountains thrown in when possible (including meeting Argo for a sweet MTB ride above Vail). Got solar panels installed on my house. Still have a fall trip to Durango planned for some more biking.
> 
> ...


Having lived here since 1990, I can tell you that I70 has *always* been a problem. In fact the travel times are not much different now then they were when I first got here. I am fairly confident this will be an improvement. Of course if rider numbers have a huge increase because of the expansion, then it will be a wash. I'd rather deal with I70 in winter than deal with it in summer is about all I know.


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## deagol (Mar 26, 2014)

Yeah, I have also lived here for a while (since '87) but to me, it seems now that the weekday traffic is as bad as the weekend traffic was back then. Memory can be flawed, though, but I know CO has grown a %^&* -ton in that time period. I go up mostly on Mondays and it is worse than it was even 10 years ago, IMO.


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## Big Foot (Jan 15, 2013)

I have to agree with Kill. Summer traffic on I-70 has been WAY worse than winter traffic this year. I got stuck in Sunday night traffic (after 6PM) and Sunday morning traffic (before 10AM) a couple times coming back from camping trips and it was fucking awful. Normally traffic isn't too bad outside of the 10AM-6PM timeframe, but this year it basically doesn't matter what time, if you are on 70 on a Sunday, you're fucked.

As for Winter, I normally leave Denver between 6AM-6:30AM and ride until 1:30PM, then head home on the weekends. Traffic isn't too bad during those times unless it snows. If there is any snow whatsoever on the road, then 70 turns into a gigantic clusterfuck of retards that have no business being behind the wheel of a vehicle. What made this past year so bad driving wise, was that it snowed a shitload, which caused 70 to be a clusterfuck a lot. The main cause of this clusterfuck was people getting stuck on the steep sections because they are running summer tires. Pretty much every time it snowed I passed a RWD, FWD, or AWD car that was stuck in the right lane spinning its tires, blocking traffic for everyone behind them, essentially turning 70 into a 1 lane road for miles. 

My solution for this would be for the CSP to require snow rated tires and/or chains on all passenger vehicles travelling on 70 in the winter. Obviously the CSP can't stop every vehicle and check for these, so in order to enforce it, anyone that gets stuck on 70 that doesn't have snow rated tires or chains would be fined no less than $1,000 for delaying traffic and causing excess polution due to all the cars stuck idling. Obviously that's a big fine, but it needs to be. People aren't going to risk driving in the snow with summer tires if there's a chance they could get slapped with a $1,000 fine for doing so.

This plan would be super easy to enforce because the CSP already responds to stuck vehicles, so now they just write a $1,000 if the vehicle that got stuck doesn't have snow rated tires or chains. Same would go for accidents. If a vehicle is involved in an accident, and doesn't have snow rated tires or chains, they get the $1,000 fine added on.


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## jjb7733 (Feb 1, 2014)

I drove west on I-70 on labor day and it was smooth sailing, eastbound however was fucked, it was backed up from the Idaho Springs tunnel all the way to the Loveland Pass tunnel. On the way back I opted for the scenic route over Boreas Pass and back home via 285.


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## Alkasquawlik (Jul 13, 2010)

Big Foot said:


> My solution for this would be for the CSP to require snow rated tires and/or chains on all passenger vehicles travelling on 70 in the winter.* Obviously the CSP can't stop every vehicle and check for these*, so in order to enforce it, anyone that gets stuck on 70 that doesn't have snow rated tires or chains would be fined no less than $1,000 for delaying traffic and causing excess polution due to all the cars stuck idling.



Why wouldn't they be able to enforce it? California Highway Patrol does it. Mandatory chain check points when the storms are bad enough. You don't have chains or 4WD/AWD, you don't pass through.


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## Big Foot (Jan 15, 2013)

Alkasquawlik said:


> Why wouldn't they be able to enforce it? California Highway Patrol does it. Mandatory chain check points when the storms are bad enough. You don't have chains or 4WD/AWD, you don't pass through.


The volume of vehicles on 70 at any given time is way too high to stop and check everyone. That would cause even bigger delays than a car getting stuck.


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## deagol (Mar 26, 2014)

It's weird: they used to have signs for all vehicles saying chains or snow tires required, but I have not seen that in well over 10-15 years.

I was lucky enough to avoid going eastbound on I-70 both in winter and summer on Sunday afternoons/evenings.


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

Big Foot said:


> This plan would be super easy to enforce because the CSP already responds to stuck vehicles, so now they just write a $1,000 if the vehicle that got stuck doesn't have snow rated tires or chains. Same would go for accidents. If a vehicle is involved in an accident, and doesn't have snow rated tires or chains, they get the $1,000 fine added on.


I'd go a step further and use a medieval pillory approach for obvious moronic deeds which impede the general public and would display the portraits on posters all over the city n social media. If fines don't do the trick, exposure maybe does.

We don't have a general winter tire enforcement law (yet), but if you cause an accident with summer tires in winter, it's gonna be pretty expensive as insurances won't pay the full amount. On certain roads however, winter tires or even chains are obligatory.
For me, it's a riddle how one can have the idea to drive on snow with summer tires, even in the flats...kind of a Darwin thing...


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## 2hipp4u (Dec 24, 2010)

Big Foot said:


> I have to agree with Kill. Summer traffic on I-70 has been WAY worse than winter traffic this year. I got stuck in Sunday night traffic (after 6PM) and Sunday morning traffic (before 10AM) a couple times coming back from camping trips and it was fucking awful. Normally traffic isn't too bad outside of the 10AM-6PM timeframe, but this year it basically doesn't matter what time, if you are on 70 on a Sunday, you're fucked.
> 
> As for Winter, I normally leave Denver between 6AM-6:30AM and ride until 1:30PM, then head home on the weekends. Traffic isn't too bad during those times unless it snows. If there is any snow whatsoever on the road, then 70 turns into a gigantic clusterfuck of retards that have no business being behind the wheel of a vehicle. What made this past year so bad driving wise, was that it snowed a shitload, which caused 70 to be a clusterfuck a lot. The main cause of this clusterfuck was people getting stuck on the steep sections because they are running summer tires. Pretty much every time it snowed I passed a RWD, FWD, or AWD car that was stuck in the right lane spinning its tires, blocking traffic for everyone behind them, essentially turning 70 into a 1 lane road for miles.
> 
> ...


We cant even enforce our mandatory Insurance laws so I dont think this will work. You could make I-70 four lanes and you will still have the same old shit show.

A double track passenger rail system that connects with the RTD would be the only solution, have it run denver to dillon with spurs to copper, vail, breck, keystone and abasin.

New rail projects run from one million to just over twenty million per mile of track depending on terrain. With about 250 miles of total track your looking at about a five billion dollar project, this is worst case and there are a lot of abandoned rail lines up there that might work for some sections.

Sounds like a lot of money but thats only half of what your fucktard government spends on a daily basis.

It will probably never happen, but one can dream.


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## Big Foot (Jan 15, 2013)

2hipp4u said:


> We cant even enforce our mandatory Insurance laws so I dont think this will work. You could make I-70 four lanes and you will still have the same old shit show.
> 
> A double track passenger rail system that connects with the RTD would be the only solution, have it run denver to dillon with spurs to copper, vail, breck, keystone and abasin.
> 
> ...



The problem with a train is it's already been done with the snow train to winter park, and not enough people used it so it operated at a constant loss and had to be shut down. Since the snow train failed, I doubt anyone will try it again. Which is super unfortunate. I'd gladly pay $20 for a round trip train ticket to Vail. I already spend more than that just in gas getting there and back.

As for the $1,000 fine for summer tires on 70. I know that'll never happen, but the idea of making people pay for being stupid makes me happy.


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## vajohn (Jan 12, 2014)

I'm ready for some snow already. About to order the epic local pass and my local discount passes for out here. I spend about 20-30 hours per week kayak fishing the chesapeake bay during the warm months and got a nice new mountain bike but can't seem to make much time to use it. Want to do some hiking before it gets really cold.


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## linvillegorge (Jul 6, 2009)

I like Big Foot's idea. Chains or snow tires. Fuck checkpoints and all that nonsense. We're trying to alleviate traffic, not make it 10x worse. Don't start no shit won't be no shit. Don't want to run proper equipment, fine. But, if you get stuck or get in a wreck causing a fuck up, time to pay the piper if you didn't think it was worth while to properly equip your vehicle.


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## BurtonAvenger (Aug 14, 2007)

2hipp4u said:


> We cant even enforce our mandatory Insurance laws so I dont think this will work. You could make I-70 four lanes and you will still have the same old shit show.
> 
> A double track passenger rail system that connects with the RTD would be the only solution, have it run denver to dillon with spurs to copper, vail, breck, keystone and abasin.
> 
> ...


You're talking about the I 70 Monorail. This fucking thing should have been done years ago. Why? Because once you're up here you can hop the Summit Stage to anywhere in the county from Dillon or even Silverthorne.


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## Argo (Feb 25, 2010)

BurtonAvenger said:


> You're talking about the I 70 Monorail. This fucking thing should have been done years ago. Why? Because once you're up here you can hop the Summit Stage to anywhere in the county from Dillon or even Silverthorne.


Qft. Same in eagle county, Eco bus here plus local transit goes everywhere....


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## snowklinger (Aug 30, 2011)

I like bigfoots idea.

Stupid people breeding and sending their kids to play in traffic.


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## Argo (Feb 25, 2010)

They can stop the train line in Silverthorne though.


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## Tatanka Head (Jan 13, 2014)

linvillegorge said:


> I like Big Foot's idea. Chains or snow tires. Fuck checkpoints and all that nonsense. We're trying to alleviate traffic, not make it 10x worse. Don't start no shit won't be no shit. Don't want to run proper equipment, fine. But, if you get stuck or get in a wreck causing a fuck up, time to pay the piper if you didn't think it was worth while to properly equip your vehicle.


In theory, this is a great idea. The only problem is that those fuck ups will continue to happen and the traffic problems won't decrease.

The benefit of chain checks is that it weeds out those who will eventually cause delays. Also, with rolling chain checks the traffic is slowed, but not always stopped. This creates spacing and offers an overall smoother flow of traffic.

I'm not familiar with the I-70 corridor, but I've spent a lot of time sitting on the I-80 and the 50 running between Sacramento and Tahoe. 
And, as an American, I have to say that Americans are some of the worst drivers I've seen.


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## racer357 (Feb 3, 2011)

The major issue with the chain and tire law is the hundreds of rental cars going to the slopes every weekend. My rental last year would have been only slightly worse on slicks.


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## AgingPunk (Feb 18, 2014)

And a good chunk of rental companies do not allow for chains to be used


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## BurtonAvenger (Aug 14, 2007)

I've driven I-80. It doesn't even come close to the shit show that is I-70.


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## linvillegorge (Jul 6, 2009)

Even suggesting checkpoints indicates someone has not personally experienced the shit show that is I-70.

If they had, they would understand how utterly ridiculous the suggestion is.


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## BurtonAvenger (Aug 14, 2007)

Yes here just pull over when everyone is bumper to bumper doing 80mph.


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## Kevin137 (May 5, 2013)

Why is it not law...??? And if it is, then simply act on it...!!!

Forget doing it on the way up, do it on the way out, simply check the cars for summer tyres in the car park, put the number into number plate recognition software, in an appropriately equipped car, and then stop all the vehicles leaving with the wrong tyres, if they have chains they should be on surely...

But the thing with anything like this, is to make the fine big enough for it to be a deterrent, that way people will see a few get caught and it will change how it works, yes there will always be an idiot, but fine the idiot $5000 and there are less idiots on the road...!!!

We have compulsory snow tyre laws here, if you break them they fine you and remove the number plates until the fine is paid, that means you cannot drive and you have to pay...!

As an example, i got caught at 71kmh in a 60 zone... The fine was 3400kr or $535 i don't speed at all now...! In the UK that would be a $120 fine if you where unlucky...!!!


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## cookiedog (Mar 3, 2014)

Just watched a vid on YouTube about that traffic. I thought NY traffic was bad. But our jams are nothing comparing to that shit.


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## deagol (Mar 26, 2014)

Yes, I-70 traffic is horribly bad. I've visited LA and I-70 is worse IMO.


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## mojo maestro (Jan 6, 2009)

They can't or won't even enforce the chain laws on the commercial vehicles.


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## Tatanka Head (Jan 13, 2014)

BurtonAvenger said:


> Yes here just pull over when everyone is bumper to bumper doing 80mph.


Well, if that is the case then what is the problem? Sounds like the German autobahn on a slow day. Only difference is that Americans don't pull to the right and yield to faster drivers.


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## Big Foot (Jan 15, 2013)

Tatanka Head said:


> Well, if that is the case then what is the problem? Sounds like the German autobahn on a slow day. Only difference is that Americans don't pull to the right and yield to faster drivers.


The problem is people get stuck or crash and block a lane. Then two lanes of bumper to bumper 80mph cars come up to the blocked lane and everyone goes full retard and slams on their brakes. Then 70 turns into 10+ miles of completely stopped bumper to bumper traffic.

And yes, 18 wheelers are guilty of not chaining up and getting stuck. I probably see one 18 wheeler stuck for every 3 cars I see stuck, and the stuck 18 wheelers never have chains even though that is supposed to be "strictly enforced".


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

Which stretch of that I70 are you talking about/are the problematic parts in winter?


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## jjb7733 (Feb 1, 2014)

pretty much all of it west of Denver, westbound on Saturday morning and eastbound on Sunday afternoon


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## BurtonAvenger (Aug 14, 2007)

neni said:


> Which stretch of that I70 are you talking about/are the problematic parts in winter?


Any section before the tunnels. Once you're here you guys will be fine. 

For the record I found the simple solution to i-70 I moved to the base area of Breckenridge. My commute is considered busy when the green route bus is full and I have to get on the black route bus that pulled in behind it.


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

BurtonAvenger said:


> Any section before the tunnels. Once you're here you guys will be fine.


Calming news. Thanks!


BTW: Considering the OP... Just received the message, that a new Flag is on the way to me :yahoo: _Now_ I'm stoked for the season


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## snowklinger (Aug 30, 2011)

Don't forget Vail pass. Vail pass and the curves just before Copper after Frisco get pretty gnarly conditions mixed with dumbasses. Everyone thinks they are safe because they made it to Silverthorne and starts driving even worse. We call the turns before Copper "Dead Man's Turns" because there is an upside down vehicle from yesterday or 5 sec ago 90% of the time in there.


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

snowklinger said:


> Don't forget Vail pass. Vail pass and the curves just before Copper after Frisco get pretty gnarly conditions mixed with dumbasses. Everyone thinks they are safe because they made it to Silverthorne and starts driving even worse. We call the turns before Copper "Dead Man's Turns" because there is an upside down vehicle from yesterday or 5 sec ago 90% of the time in there.


Gulp. Mind note: don't forget to bribe the rental desk dude to get the car with the newest winter tires... :huh:


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## linvillegorge (Jul 6, 2009)

snowklinger said:


> Don't forget Vail pass. Vail pass and the curves just before Copper after Frisco get pretty gnarly conditions mixed with dumbasses. Everyone thinks they are safe because they made it to Silverthorne and starts driving even worse. We call the turns before Copper "Dead Man's Turns" because there is an upside down vehicle from yesterday or 5 sec ago 90% of the time in there.


Yep. I've been in some truly awful traffic jams on Vail Pass as well.

It was one particularly awful traffic clusterfuck on the hill leading up to the tunnel there at Silverthorne/Dillon that finally made me just say fuck Summit County and Vail during the winter. Told all my boys right then and there that I'll never do this shit again and I never have.


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## deagol (Mar 26, 2014)

snowklinger said:


> Don't forget Vail pass. Vail pass and the curves just before Copper after Frisco get pretty gnarly conditions mixed with dumbasses. Everyone thinks they are safe because they made it to Silverthorne and starts driving even worse. We call the turns before Copper "Dead Man's Turns" because there is an upside down vehicle from yesterday or 5 sec ago 90% of the time in there.


I was comming back from Leadville eastbound at night on that stretch and turned a corner and a semi was on it's side with headlights still on just laying there in the westbound lane. Wish I had a picture of it.


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## linvillegorge (Jul 6, 2009)

There are numerous problem spots between Denver and Vail and bad weather greatly exacerbates them. From east to west, you basically have:

the initial climb out of Denver up to Genessee 
Floyd Hill
the curves and bridge at the Hwy 6 junction
the twin tunnels at Idaho Springs
the Hwy 40 junction
the hill between Georgetown and Silver Plume
Eisenhower Tunnel
the hill from Silverthorne/Dillon up to Eisenhower Tunnel
the previously mentioned curves between Frisco and Copper Mountain
Vail Pass

There are A LOT of great opportunities for epic traffic clusterfucks between Denver and Vail, but most of them are between Denver and Eisenhower Tunnel. However, the worst ones I've personally seen have been west of the tunnel.


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## Argo (Feb 25, 2010)

Neni, if you have anything you want to order from the US, you can get my address and ship it here. I'll keep it to the side for you and you can grab it when you arrive .


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## Big Foot (Jan 15, 2013)

deagol said:


> I was comming back from Leadville eastbound at night on that stretch and turned a corner and a semi was on it's side with headlights still on just laying there in the westbound lane. Wish I had a picture of it.


They're so cute when they're sleeping like that.


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

Argo said:


> Neni, if you have anything you want to order from the US, you can getmy address and ship it here. I'll keep it to the side for you and you can grab it when you arrive .


Awsome, thanks! Them brilliant little things not available here: these air activated hand and toe warmers! Would be great to get a bigger stock for next season than the handfull I gathered from gas station shops in AK for this season. What kind of Swiss cheese and chocolate do you like?


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## f00bar (Mar 6, 2014)

neni said:


> What kind of Swiss cheese and chocolate do you like?


There are different kinds????? :signlol:


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

f00bar said:


> There are different kinds????? :signlol:


oke:

aaaaah, heresy! 

Hundreds! (> 450 types, add to that the different maturing levels and specialities and you get way more. E.g. if I prepare a raclette, there's Raclette cheese, sure, but I'll get a selection of many subtypes as mild or matured or smoked or with pepper or with garlic or with paprika). 80% of our agricultural landscape are pastures. Cows everywhere 

Hmmm... now I'm hungry  gonna have a raclette this evening! Raclette - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## f00bar (Mar 6, 2014)

neni said:


> oke:
> 
> aaaaah, heresy!
> 
> ...


I know, I was just playing the ignorant American card. I remember walking around in France and boggling at 1) the fact that there was a Subway restaurante 2) the fact that people would actually want to get Subway with American cheese.


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

f00bar said:


> I was just playing the ignorant American card.


You had to _play_???  


BTW: would have never expected that I'll ever say something alike about cheddar... but only days ago, I encountered a wonderful cheddar cheese: in Scotland at the Laphroaig distillery they selled a cheddar prepared with 10y/o Laphroaig in it. mmmmmm yummy!


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## f00bar (Mar 6, 2014)

neni said:


> You had to _play_???
> 
> 
> BTW: would have never expected that I'll ever say something alike about cheddar... but only days ago, I encountered a wonderful cheddar cheese: in Scotland at the Laphroaig distillery they selled a cheddar prepared with 10y/o Laphroaig in it. mmmmmm yummy!


Oh...the pretentious European card comes out. Well played! 2: ..:moon:

My 5 year plan is a trip to your side to become more cultured. Though unfortunately I think the Italian side is probably more budget friendly?


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

f00bar said:


> Oh...the pretentious European card comes out. Well played! 2: ..:moon:
> 
> My 5 year plan is a trip to your side to become more cultured. Though unfortunately I think the Italian side is probably more budget friendly?



Haha, I'm super clueless and ignorant about "over there" . Especially the proportions thing.
Example? Looked at a map of Fairbanks and thought, oh well, looks as if everything is in nice walking distance, close to the town center. We'll walk! Well... we walked a loooooooong time . Miles are longer, citiy centers are bigger, not every road has a walkway (or maybe there were, but buried under heaps of snow).

Example? Ordered two appetizers and a main course in a rustic food-bar in Girdwood. The waiter asked twice if I'm sure. Yes sure I'm sure, I'm hungry! Well, I _nearly_ managed to finish the first appetizer  (scalops swimming in butter and topped with a huge cover of melted cheddar). The waiter laughed and told me that he didn't forward my order of the other two dishes to the kitchen yet.

Anyway: yes, absolutely go to Italy! Honestly, there's not much old cluture in CH compared to Italy. The baroque freestone old town of the capital, yes... but other than that we're more on the landscape side I'd say. If you're into food and culture, that's the place to go. Florence is the most beautiful city I know. Ah, also La Spezia, Rome, the opera in Modena, Parma, Venezia, marble Carrara, the food and roman ruins on Sicilia... and most important: coffee at it purest. Italy is awsome for a rent a cabriolet and drive around, enjoy dolce far niente trip!


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## Argo (Feb 25, 2010)

Portions of food here amaze me sometimes too, they seem to get bigger and bigger. We don't eat out at fast food or semi fast food(chain restaurants) places very often and when we do it always catches me off guard. I'm a large person, my wife and I usually end up splitting food. However, in Italy, the pasta portions are huge! 

Travel distances are on a different scale here too for sure. Think of miles as minutes when driving on the highway, 30 miles/30 minutes..... Walking is about 3-4 miles per hour.....


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## deagol (Mar 26, 2014)

This is funny about portion sizes. 
I met a German girl skiing at Ajax (Aspen) years ago and we got along great. She asked me out of the blue: "Why do Americans eat so much?" and of course I could not answer for all Americans, so I had to think of something quick. I said, borrowing from George Mallory, "Because it's there" referring to portion sizes in restaraunts. Then I had to ask "Why do Europeans smoke so much?" -since she was smoking quite a bit, even when skiing. I don't remember exactly what her reply was, but it was something along the line of "point taken".


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## f00bar (Mar 6, 2014)

neni said:


> Haha, I'm super clueless and ignorant about "over there" . Especially the proportions thing.
> Example? Looked at a map of Fairbanks and thought, oh well, looks as if everything is in nice walking distance, close to the town center. We'll walk! Well... we walked a loooooooong time . Miles are longer, citiy centers are bigger, not every road has a walkway (or maybe there were, but buried under heaps of snow).
> 
> Example? Ordered two appetizers and a main course in a rustic food-bar in Girdwood. The waiter asked twice if I'm sure. Yes sure I'm sure, I'm hungry! Well, I _nearly_ managed to finish the first appetizer  (scalops swimming in butter and topped with a huge cover of melted cheddar). The waiter laughed and told me that he didn't forward my order of the other two dishes to the kitchen yet.
> ...


Welll, it's Alaska. Food still has one core function. Massive calories so you can outrun the bears!

My plan is an Alps trip. Looking at most of the ski clubs they seem to hit the Italian side more than yours. I'm assuming it's less expensive. It's a shame I was taking a winter sport hiatus when I had to take a few trips to Turin for work about 15 years ago.

Hmmmm...though I did just look and see they have a trip to Verbier scheduled for first week in Feb. Does look to be about 20% more than the Italy trips.


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## Big Foot (Jan 15, 2013)

I love American portions. My daily caloric requirement for maintenance of my current weight is 3,800 calories a day. So I need to eat a lot. The way American portions are set up, it's easy to get 1/3 of my daily caloric needs with each meal. To put that into perspective, if I were to eat a chipotle burritto for breakfast, lunch, and dinner, I would be just under my daily caloric needs for the day after dinner. Throw in a couple beers and I'm good to go.


Unfortunately the average person needs closer to 2,000 calories a day, but the average American eats the same amount (or more) as I do. So they get really fat. Hence us being the fattest country in the world.


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## deagol (Mar 26, 2014)

according to this, we are #8...


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## ridinbend (Aug 2, 2012)

Fondue in Lauterbrunnen is a must.


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## Big Foot (Jan 15, 2013)

deagol said:


> according to this, we are #8...


Wow, we are moving on up in the world. I guess it kinda makes sense that the countries you're required to wear baggy robes 24/7 would have the fattest people. I mean why worry about being in shape when you wear a robe all day?


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## kosmoz (Dec 27, 2013)

deagol said:


> according to this, we are #8...


only if overweight is considered more than 40 BMI in usa and more than 30 in rest of the world :signlol:


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## deagol (Mar 26, 2014)

same standard was apllied to everyone. Don't be a troll- read the article.

There is also this: "According to the World Health Organization, obesity is no longer just an American problem but is an increasing concern in Europe and other developed nations. With an increasing number of these people abandoning traditional dietary habits and adopting more sedentary lifestyles, it warns that waistlines around the world may be expanding too far. "

http://www.baltictimes.com/news/articles/9265/


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## ridinbend (Aug 2, 2012)

kosmoz said:


> only if overweight is considered more than 40 BMI in usa and more than 30 in rest of the world :signlol:


You seem to be in the mood to be taking shots at the US. Remind me again, have you been here? Or is your entire understanding of life in America based on the internet?


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## linvillegorge (Jul 6, 2009)

Weather is starting to be consistently cool and fall colors seem to be peaking. Stoke is starting to rise. :yahoo:


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## deagol (Mar 26, 2014)

linvillegorge said:


> Weather is starting to be consistently cool and fall colors seem to be peaking. Stoke is starting to rise. :yahoo:


I used to get that way.. but the stoke for me means mountain-biking in those fall colors in the San Juans this weekend...

but I might have to just stay home and watch "Here Comes Honey Boo Boo" instead since I am a grossly overweight 'merican.


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## f00bar (Mar 6, 2014)

linvillegorge said:


> Weather is starting to be consistently cool and fall colors seem to be peaking. Stoke is starting to rise. :yahoo:


See that. You can thank the fact that this thread has had a laser focus on getting you inspired and hasn't strayed one bit!


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## linvillegorge (Jul 6, 2009)

Fall colors to me usually means chasing big browns in the South Platte. Might have to do some of that this weekend. I haven't made any real fishing trips all summer. Done a little fishing close to home here in Bear Creek and Clear Creek and wet a line a time or two up in the Blue River around Silverthorne, but that was with the wife and dog so I'm talking only about an hour or two of fishing while she checked out the outlets. That doesn't even count in my book.


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## BoardWalk (Mar 22, 2011)

deagol said:


> There is also this: "According to the World Health Organization, obesity is no longer just an American problem but is an increasing concern in Europe and other developed nations.


We are trendsetters...


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

BMI scales are stupid


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## linvillegorge (Jul 6, 2009)

neni said:


> BMI scales are stupid


QFT

It's absurd to base a person's expected weight off of only one factor - height. Everyone knows there's different body types. Hell, my two best childhood friends and I are all roughly the same height. One's an absolute bean pole, one is stocky, and I'm somewhere in the middle hedging more toward stocky. While we're all essentially the same height, our body types are wildly different. My stock buddy's shoulders are probably a good 3" wider than mine. The dude is built like an NFL LB. It's insane to expect him and my beanpole buddy to weigh the same amount based on height alone. If you look at their overall frames, one guy is obviously naturally quite a bit larger than the other.


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## deagol (Mar 26, 2014)

Yeah, I never got why BMI is used soo much. But the obesity studies look also at body fat % and not just BMI.


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## f00bar (Mar 6, 2014)

Do we really need to get more scientific than 'wow, they all look fat'?


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## linvillegorge (Jul 6, 2009)

IMO, body fat % is the most accurate figure to use. But, then again, with that said these body builders who pack on completely unnatural muscle onto their overburdened frames aren't exactly healthy either despite low body fat %.


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## BoardWalk (Mar 22, 2011)

linvillegorge said:


> with that said these body builders who pack on completely unnatural muscle onto their overburdened frames


I don't want to brag but I lifted a weight once, I didn't realize how heavy they were, enough of that.


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

Whuuut... you're not so stoked for this upcoming season?

I am  
Super stoked. Hopefully finances and time allows me to get some good # and quality of days.....


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## kosmoz (Dec 27, 2013)

ridinbend said:


> You seem to be in the mood to be taking shots at the US. Remind me again, have you been here? Or is your entire understanding of life in America based on the internet?


well yeah, I've been  so much fat and ugly chicks seen only in UK


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## kosmoz (Dec 27, 2013)

linvillegorge said:


> QFT
> 
> It's absurd to base a person's expected weight off of only one factor - height. Everyone knows there's different body types. Hell, my two best childhood friends and I are all roughly the same height. One's an absolute bean pole, one is stocky, and I'm somewhere in the middle hedging more toward stocky. While we're all essentially the same height, our body types are wildly different. My stock buddy's shoulders are probably a good 3" wider than mine. The dude is built like an NFL LB. It's insane to expect him and my beanpole buddy to weigh the same amount based on height alone. If you look at their overall frames, one guy is obviously naturally quite a bit larger than the other.


put them on x-rays, skelet of both will be almost the same  BMI is ok, if you are speaking about average people, to be more precise you need body fat %.


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## Manicmouse (Apr 7, 2014)

Lottery of birth really, taller people can carry more weight. It's about not having too much fat in your middle around the organs.


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## linvillegorge (Jul 6, 2009)

kosmoz said:


> put them on x-rays, skelet of both will be almost the same  BMI is ok, if you are speaking about average people, to be more precise you need body fat %.


Bullshit. I bet my bigger buddy's wrist is 50% bigger than beanpole's. He definitely has a much larger, heavier bone structure.


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## Argo (Feb 25, 2010)

kosmoz said:


> put them on x-rays, skelet of both will be almost the same  BMI is ok, if you are speaking about average people, to be more precise you need body fat %.


Your a trolling retard. Go back to your mud hut... :moon: 

Having put thousands of ortho implants directly onto bones and looked at thousands more X-rays, something I do daily, I can tell you there is a huge difference in bone structures on similar sized people. I'm 6'1" 290 but can squat 700 lbs and leg press 1200, I won't say I'm skinny or fat. My fat percentage goes from 26-28%, my bmi based on the ratio is like 38.... Very different numbers. I also just got done hiking 15 miles in the mountains in 5 hours, which is a respectable time..... If you are ever in the states feel free to come buy me a beer. Oh and my caloric intake, which I track daily is 1300-1500 calories a day, very low.... 

Not all body's are made of the same DNA. Get a clue.....:tempted:


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## deagol (Mar 26, 2014)

Argo beat me to it.. I was suspecting Kosmos had a poor grasp of writing in English combined with being a bit of a troll. 

The one thing about the United States that anyone throwing around stereotypes should know: it's a very large country with a huge diversity of landscapes, people, economics, political values, etc, etc.

The size of California alone is about 6.5 times the size of Lithuania (about the size of West Virginia). 
The size of the United States is about 150 times the size.....


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## jdang307 (Feb 6, 2011)

First baby born in May. So my stoke started later this year. 

Unfortunately won't be able to go on many trips this year. Stuck at Bear and not even that many days since I'll miss the little booger. Last year the wifey surpised me with trips to Whistler and Snowbird because she knew this year I'll take it easy with the new kid. A trip to Mammoth and days at Bear for me.

Can't wait until he's 3 because he's going to Burton Riglet school whether he likes it or not! Mommy can watch him.


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## ridinbend (Aug 2, 2012)

jdang307 said:


> First baby born in May. So my stoke started later this year.
> 
> Unfortunately won't be able to go on many trips this year. Stuck at Bear and not even that many days since I'll miss the little booger. Last year the wifey surpised me with trips to Whistler and Snowbird because she knew this year I'll take it easy with the new kid. A trip to Mammoth and days at Bear for me.
> 
> Can't wait until he's 3 because he's going to Burton Riglet school whether he likes it or not! Mommy can watch him.


Yes indeed! The true heart of a father.2:


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