# New board to fill a gap



## Toomeyct (Apr 4, 2012)

I have a NS Heritage X 163 that I use for freeriding. Compared to the other boards I've used it is great. Now from my understanding with the NS line, the Raptor is even better at charging when compared to the heritage and the Cobra is better in powder. Not sure how the cobra compares to the heritage in terms of charging things. So if either of those boards are better at freeriding than the heritage, and as far as I can tell, its pretty great. You probably can't go wrong with either of those boards. 

I have no experience with the burton boards or the jones. Though I did mess around with one of the jones carbon flagships at the Further movie premier I went to. Looked like a great board and was crazy stiff so it would probably be pretty fun as a hard charging board.


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## genebike (May 11, 2012)

You're describing the best use for a Custom X. I own one and love riding it the way you're describing. Balls out. Not a forgiving stick, but when you get on it, the performance is there.


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## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

Sassicaia said:


> Jones Carbon Flagship
> Burton Vapor
> Burton Custom X
> Never Summer Cobra
> ...


Overkill. Pointless. Not Bad. Meh.

Ride Highlife, Flow Maverick, K2 Slayblade, Salomon Mans Board, Nitro Blacklight, or Bataleon Enemy.


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## RaID (Aug 27, 2009)

From the NS line up id be looking at the:
Heritage, Raptor or Premier F1 (if you want something very damp)

It really depends on how much you want this board to be freeride orientated instead of being more versatile towards the all mountain like the Cobra.


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## hktrdr (Apr 3, 2012)

Unless the new model/carbon version is much different from last year's board the Jones is not a damp deck. Also does not really fit your stated needs.

From your list, probably the Custom X if you can live with the limitations in powder performance.


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## tdn (Dec 30, 2010)

Sassicaia said:


> Ill sometimes hike for powder and wont shy away from much in terms of snow conditions.


I'd cross the Burton Custom X off your list. 

Off the top of my head the Ride Highlife or NeverSummer Heritage sound like they're made for you.

$.02


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## Sassicaia (Jan 21, 2012)

All great posts...thanks


I'm keeping the Burton Mystery which is a pretty good powder board as far as non powder dedicated boards go. Really the only powder my second board would need to be able to handle would what ever fell on groomed runs. If there was a big dump of fresh new snow id be going with my Mystery. 

Im strongly leaning towards the Custom X based on feedback and the fact that I wouldn't need to get a second pair of bindings since my current ones are EST. 

No votes for the Vapor? Lets assume they were the same price...would the custom still be a better board then the Vapor? Im purely going for performance...i dont care about the cost. If the Custom X is a better board then great, but if not id prefer to just buy the best for what Im looking to achieve.


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## tdn (Dec 30, 2010)

In that case the Custom X is a good choice. If you were to rely on it only after some serious hiking to hit up some powder, I'd much rather have another board. I haven't ridden the vapor or know anyone who has one, so I'll let others chime in on that particular comparison.


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## Lamps (Sep 3, 2011)

Sassicaia said:


> All great posts...thanks
> 
> I'm keeping the Burton Mystery which is a pretty good powder board as far as non powder dedicated boards go. Really the only powder my second board would need to be able to handle would what ever fell on groomed runs. If there was a big dump of fresh new snow id be going with my Mystery.
> 
> ...


I've been riding Vapors for four years and I have a two board setup of very similar style so I'll add a few thoughts. Cambered board is the vapor and hybrid board is Sherlock, two pairs of C60 bindings (thinking of swapping these for two pairs of diodes - thoughts on that are welcome). 

I live in Ontario and make a couple trips to Whistler each year, and I am a near zero park person except the occasional small jump and playing near the bottom of the pipe. 

In the east my primary board is the Vapor and when out west I mostly ride the Sherlock. In Ontario the Sherlock comes out when there's fresh snow or warmer temps, or in the afternoons on sunny days. 

While I haven't ridden the Mystery I demo'd the Method for two full days so I have a pretty good understanding of a similar board. I chose the sherlock over the Method because it was a little more powder/soft snow oriented and I already have the Vapor for other conditons. Unfortunately I haven't ridden the Custom X. 

I think that if you are tip top rider and are looking for board that will handle the steepest of steeps at Mach 10 and the hardest hard pack and some ice too then the custom X will marginally perform better while you are driving through crazy technical carves, and if you're that good (which is really good) you'll be able to push the custom X past the performance envelope for the Vapor everywhere other than doing massive airs in the pipe. Poutine guy, the king of the T7 might be such a rider, and with the T7 gone the Custom X is his next best choice in the Burton line. 

If you're not that tip top carving maniac of a rider you might like the vapor more. It weighs nothing, is still a pretty stiff board, has fandamtastic edge hold, it's a perfect companion to a flying V shape in that if fills the gap (custom X probably does too). Like the custom x it's not a board that you can just dick around on and stay upright but if you push it, it's there for you. On a five day trip last year I rode the sherlock the first four days in soft snow and with the last day looking like all groomers i went back to the Vapor, which after 30 feet on the flats I caught an edge and it tossed me the ground to remind me that I wasn't on some happy skatey hybrid anymore. With that reminder done for the rest of the day I had a great time charging along down the corduroy, and later in the day slicing through the choppy crap (this will be true with the custom X too). 

Based on specs the vapor might be a little better in the trees than the custom X, due to a slightly narrower side cut but I'd think that the Mystery would be the best choice there (other than the sherlock which turns on a dime with its extra deep sidecut). 

Burton says the Vapor is more refined than the Custom X, and while I can't say for sure till I demo a custom X I can get what they mean; presumably it's not quite as twitchy. It may be a little less precise but I can tell you that I myself find it pretty damn precise when paired with a stiff binding. 

I suspect that going forward I'll swap the sherlock for some different iteration, but as long as the Vapor's in the line I'll be keeping with it, it's a great cambered board, light weight, pretty stiff, super fast, carves real good. 

So there's a long counterpoint to the various Custom X endorsements. And of course the best thing to do is try them both and then decide. I suspect the differences will be slight, and either will be way better than the Mystery when the conditions are not Mystery suited.


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## Sassicaia (Jan 21, 2012)

Sweet reply lamps. thanks! 

I have a much better perspective on the board. Its a toss up, so im going to likely go with the vapor because I like the graphics more, and its weight.


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## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

So pointless. The Vapor is just like the Method and Mystery. Burton makes them just to make them. They barely expect to sell any. 

Look what the team rides. Yeah they can ride anything on anything blah blah blah, if they aren't out riding a board though, neither will you. They aren't riding Vapors for a reason. They don't need to. Custom X is just fine.

If you're for the weight AND performance, Nitro Factory Series. They have Koroyd which is a circular honeycomb. Which means it does not change flex characteristics based on the angle of attack. Light and damned responsive. 

Buy something that is actually built to be ridden. Not built just to see if it can be built.


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## bseracka (Nov 14, 2011)

Any cambered stiff board fits what you're looking for. Personally I'd try to jump on the Virus GB Poutean setup. Virus fits everything you're looking for and has the bonus of being exclusive with highend materials


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## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

bseracka said:


> Any cambered stiff board fits what you're looking for. Personally I'd try to jump on the Virus GB Poutean setup. Virus fits everything you're looking for and has the bonus of being exclusive with highend materials


Dude fuck that.


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## kctahoe (Nov 14, 2010)

Why anybody would spend $1200 on a snowboard blows my mind, I say take Nivek's advice and save your money.


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## Lamps (Sep 3, 2011)

kctahoe said:


> Why anybody would spend $1200 on a snowboard blows my mind, I say take Nivek's advice and save your money.


First, the guy said the differenve in price isn't an issue, second nobody pays full price for these things. 

Sassicaia be sure to post your thoughts once you've been out a few times, esp on the vapor/diode combo.


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## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

Spending that much for something with little to no knowledge of the entire company makes no sense. What if they aren't built well and you have to warranty something? Their site doesn't even have an english version which makes that a bitch for anyone living here. On top of that if you just have to have all the bullshit expensive materials there are established companies using them.


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## snowklinger (Aug 30, 2011)

I think its clear these guys just want to eurocarve.


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## Sassicaia (Jan 21, 2012)

Let me explain something about the price issue. IMO snowboarding is a very inexpensive sport compared to most. Its cheap to buy a pass, cheap to get entry level equipment and cheap relative to entry level prices to get into the "ultra high end". We are talking about $1200 for the most expensive board. My driver and woods cost more then that in my golf bag. Know anyone into cars? My local mountain seasons pass is $700 and Ill board 50+ times this year so what ever I buy will get its use.

If the top end board was $5000 then yes, id care, but when the difference between mid level and the most expensive is less then $500 bucks...i don't worry about it. Its not like mountain biking where you can go from $500 bucks to buy a entry bike up to $5k 10k 15k very easily to get into the high end. 

My ultimate goal is to get the best ride possible ride for my style. I put some value in the look, story, brand, warranty etc.

If it was unanimous that the Custom X was a better board over the Vapor for my ability and riding style id buy the X, if it was reversed id buy the Vapor. If it was the same I would pay more for the vapor if I liked the look of it better and liked the fact it weighed less. 

If everyone said the Vapor and Custom X are balls and the Jones was what I needed id buy that. What im hearing is that the Custom X is it, and something very similar but lighter would be the Vapor. There are some other suggestions (which I appreciate), but i sort of want to narrow my list not expand it unless there was a board that was universally agreed on that I should look it. 


To the guy that made the eurocarving comment...im not 100% sure if that was directed at me or not, but if it was eat a bag of dicks.


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## snowklinger (Aug 30, 2011)

Sassicaia said:


> To the guy that made the eurocarving comment...im not 100% sure if that was directed at me or not, but if it was eat a bag of dicks.


It was directed at Nivek.


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## Sassicaia (Jan 21, 2012)

snowklinger said:


> It was directed at Nivek.


Ok, Gotcha


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## Sassicaia (Jan 21, 2012)

Im leaning towards the Vapor heavily for two reasons...well three actually. The review on the good ride did separate it from the custom X in a good way, its the sibling to my Mystery, and third... fuck it.

My third reason is the real driving force at this point.


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## Lamps (Sep 3, 2011)

Sassicaia said:


> Im leaning towards the Vapor heavily for two reasons...well three actually. The review on the good ride did separate it from the custom X in a good way, its the sibling to my Mystery, and third... fuck it.
> 
> My third reason is the real driving force at this point.


go with that, you won't regret it...


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## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

Sassicaia said:


> Im leaning towards the Vapor heavily for two reasons...well three actually. The review on the good ride did separate it from the custom X in a good way, its the sibling to my Mystery, and third... fuck it.
> 
> My third reason is the real driving force at this point.


HA! The Good Ride. That's classic. Read more of the reviews. They have no fucking clue what they're doing.

Is there a reason you're ignoring the Nitro stuff with Koroyd?


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## Sassicaia (Jan 21, 2012)

Nivek said:


> HA! The Good Ride. That's classic. Read more of the reviews. They have no fucking clue what they're doing.
> 
> Is there a reason you're ignoring the Nitro stuff with Koroyd?


Primary reason is im dont really want to expand the list unless there is a board that multiple people agree is with trying. Im sure I could get 20 suggestions from 20 different people. That and the fact i have EST bindings (two sets) so id prefer a burton board in that regards. Having said that, if there was one board infinitely better for what im looking for then the Custom or Vapor id consider it. 

With regards to the good ride I dont know if they are good or bad reviewers, but at least its a place that gave an opinion about the Vapor vs Custom...not much different then anyones opinion around here...no?


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## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

Vapor *"2010 Top 5 in The Pipe Good Wood Award Winner, 2009 Top 5 in the pipe Good wood award Winner, 2007 Future Top 10 Award Winner, 2006 Good Wood Award Winner. Are you a drug dealer? Neurosurgeon? Do you own a professional sports team? Are you a dictator of a small country? Do you have a few oil wells in Saudi Arabia? Did you pull out of real estate in the mid 2000′s? If so the Burton Vapor might be for you. That being said is this is one of…. if not the first ultra light boards created. The Burton Vapor is a directional snowboard but its very close to a twin in shape. It is quite unique in terms of tech and almost anyone who has tried the Vapor can’t really find any glaring issues. The 2011 Burton Vapor has changed a lot from 2010 by changing the core from aluminum to wood. The ride is better but still very much the same style ride as the aluminum Vapor. The 2012 Burton Vapors‘ wood core is a little more springy and seemed lighter than the 2011 but it’s hard to say for sure. The 2013 Burton Vapor is pretty much the same board as 2012 and that’s not so much a bad thing."*

That is not a review. That is brand bullshit. There is no possible way going from Alu to wood does not change the ride much. That's utter bullshit and it shows me they have not ridden both incarnations. I have not ridden the wood one but I did ride the Alu. Harsh as a motherfucker and super weak base. Bounce off a rock and you will dent the base. Vibrations right to your feet too. Fucking awful.

Custom *"It’s pretty stiff, fast and fun for tearing up the mountain at high speed"*
That is the extent of the ride review.

Custom*"They did add “Squeeze Box” tech to the 2012 which helps improve the flex between the feet but to us we didn’t notice much of a difference compared to the previous models. We felt a bit of a difference on some other Burton boards with the Squeezebox tech but for some reason it seemed almost the same with the Custom X"*

The don't know what squeezebox is and clearly either didn't ride the board or couldn't ride well enough to feel the difference.


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## Sassicaia (Jan 21, 2012)

Nivek said:


> Vapor *"2010 Top 5 in The Pipe Good Wood Award Winner, 2009 Top 5 in the pipe Good wood award Winner, 2007 Future Top 10 Award Winner, 2006 Good Wood Award Winner. Are you a drug dealer? Neurosurgeon? Do you own a professional sports team? Are you a dictator of a small country? Do you have a few oil wells in Saudi Arabia? Did you pull out of real estate in the mid 2000′s? If so the Burton Vapor might be for you. That being said is this is one of…. if not the first ultra light boards created. The Burton Vapor is a directional snowboard but its very close to a twin in shape. It is quite unique in terms of tech and almost anyone who has tried the Vapor can’t really find any glaring issues. The 2011 Burton Vapor has changed a lot from 2010 by changing the core from aluminum to wood. The ride is better but still very much the same style ride as the aluminum Vapor. The 2012 Burton Vapors‘ wood core is a little more springy and seemed lighter than the 2011 but it’s hard to say for sure. The 2013 Burton Vapor is pretty much the same board as 2012 and that’s not so much a bad thing."*
> 
> That is not a review. That is brand bullshit. There is no possible way going from Alu to wood does not change the ride much. That's utter bullshit and it shows me they have not ridden both incarnations. I have not ridden the wood one but I did ride the Alu. Harsh as a motherfucker and super weak base. Bounce off a rock and you will dent the base. Vibrations right to your feet too. Fucking awful.
> 
> ...


Scroll down from there and click the tab that says "in depth"


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## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

Sassicaia said:


> Scroll down from there and click the tab that says "in depth"


Fair enough. Claiming that was the extent of the ride review was misguided. But then why is the real review not the first thing you see? Shitty site design.

The rest of what I said is still valid. They don't know what squeezebox is and can't ride will enough to feel it or muscle the X to find it. Also that's a picture of the 2013. You'd think they'd know that everyone except I think Drake now makes a disc to fit ICS. Also there is no possible way the put 75+ days on the 2013.

These aren't the only issues with them. They have plenty of reviews that are straight up wrong or full of bad facts. They do this for free product and that's it.


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## BurtonAvenger (Aug 14, 2007)

HAHAHA The Good Ride what a bunch of fucking kooks. Weekend warriors with 0 shop experience and tech knowledge shouldn't be allowed to run a snowboard review site.


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## mrjimyjohn (Dec 18, 2010)

I hope the 2014 Vapor has a titanium core and diamond encrusted carbon fiber top sheet for "more expensive flex"


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## sxdaca (Oct 5, 2012)

Nivek said:


> HA! The Good Ride. That's classic. Read more of the reviews. They have no fucking clue what they're doing.


i dont know that much about boards man and im always looking for reviews and i found this forum. I trust in the the angry and agnarchy, and lately i was reading the reviews from the good ride i thought they were decent at least a lot better than the boardisiders. which sites would you recomend for good reviews???


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## hktrdr (Apr 3, 2012)

Sassicaia said:


> Primary reason is im dont really want to expand the list unless there is a board that multiple people agree is with trying. Im sure I could get 20 suggestions from 20 different people. That and the fact i have EST bindings (two sets) so id prefer a burton board in that regards. *Having said that, if there was one board infinitely better for what im looking for then the Custom or Vapor id consider it. *
> 
> With regards to the good ride I dont know if they are good or bad reviewers, but at least its a place that gave an opinion about the Vapor vs Custom...not much different then anyones opinion around here...no?


Both the Custom X and the Nitro *are infinitely better* for your purpose than the Vapor. There.


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## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

sxdaca said:


> i dont know that much about boards man and im always looking for reviews and i found this forum. I trust in the the angry and agnarchy, and lately i was reading the reviews from the good ride i thought they were decent at least a lot better than the boardisiders. which sites would you recomend for good reviews???


I don't know of any. Sorry. If we haven't reviewed something, try to ride it yourself.


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## hktrdr (Apr 3, 2012)

sxdaca said:


> i dont know that much about boards man and im always looking for reviews and i found this forum. I trust in the the angry and agnarchy, and lately i was reading the reviews from the good ride i thought they were decent at least a lot better than the boardisiders. which sites would you recomend for good reviews???


Frankly, there are none. All of the above are mixed bags:

TheGoodRide reviews range from decent (for boards that the guys own/ride regularly) to completely awful (sometimes they just put 1-2 runs on the board at a demo day).
Angry is also hit and miss - quite biased on certain brands/companies that they affiliate with. That said at least the bias is pretty clearly disclosed.
Agnarchy are probably the most neutral, but it seems their range of gear reviewed is not as diverse because their supply kind of comes and goes.

Frankly, your best bet are discussions on sites like this.


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## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

hktrdr said:


> Frankly, there are none. All of the above are mixed bags:
> 
> TheGoodRide reviews range from decent (for boards that the guys own/ride regularly) to completely awful (sometimes they just put 1-2 runs on the board at a demo day).
> Angry is also hit and miss - quite biased on certain brands/companies that they affiliate with. That said at least the bias is pretty clearly disclosed.
> ...


Where are you seeing the bias at Angry?


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## Justin (Jun 2, 2010)

Nivek said:


> Where are you seeing the bias at Angry?


Rossi

DWD (could be legit but he seems to hate that company)

Before this past year i would have said YES/anything with cam rock. 

You know him better than most obviously and might disagree but that is what i feel like his bias' are, if its not true then great but thats the impression that i get.


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## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

Camrock? Last years T9 Camrock. Liked that. Other than that, YES and Signal were really the only ones doing camrock. He wasn't a fan of the Omni, I was, and neither of us liked really anything from YES. Still don't. Pretty much just the 2013 Greats.

Hates DWD? He liked the video and the Genovese.

He doesn't hate on Rossi as a product, just that their marketing campaign is utter crap and is killing the brand again. Years and years ago he like the Trickstick if memory serves.

Do you read the site? I can't figure out where you would have gotten these biases from. Arbor, Capita, Mervin, or Union would have made more sense. I can explain those too if you want though.


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## Justin (Jun 2, 2010)

Nivek said:


> Camrock? Last years T9 Camrock. Liked that. Other than that, YES and Signal were really the only ones doing camrock. He wasn't a fan of the Omni, I was, and neither of us liked really anything from YES. Still don't. Pretty much just the 2013 Greats.
> 
> Hates DWD? He liked the video and the Genovese.
> 
> ...


Maybe i missed the T9 review but i remember him saying that he thought it was a usless incarnation of camber but he is alowed to change his opinion and i don't hold it against him that he changed his mind on it.

Like i said its just the impression that i get. I have seen him say dwd should die. 

I read the whole rossi thread the other day, all the comments section and he said they were all terrible and he didn't need to ride them this year (whatever year that was) cause they were garbage.(paraphrasing)

I am curious as to why he hates mervin and capita although capita could just be the ppl as they are part of union. 

Union i have read enough comments to know why he doesn't like them although i haven't ridden them so i can't confirm and i don't deal with reps or companies so i don't have that insider knowledge.

He does seem to like arbor and k2. Although he didn't like the life like so i don't think he is very bias on k2.

I don't think he is terribly biased but on one or 2 issues he seems to be. I wouldn't really expect him not to be to be honest. I found the Nitro t1 (from a few years ago) to be very accurate and wish i would have read it before i bought it as i don't like the board (my rock board now). And the highlife was also very accurate to my experience so i trust a lot of what he/you say.


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