# Boot Sizing



## justin_c (Dec 30, 2020)

Nice job measuring! 
And yes, you are correct. You are a 275 mondo size which equates to US 9.5 and a width of EE bordering on EEE, which is quite wide. 

Some of the boot manufacturers make wide versions of boots, I suggest you try several of them. You're off to a good start with having those measurements and it should help you get into a properly fitted boot.

For whats its worth, I have tried a K2 Maysis Wide and a Burton Ruler Wide in the past. The Ruler was too wide for my E width foot, so might be something to look into for you.


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## SandmanATHF (Feb 28, 2021)

I just tried on 3 pairs of wide boots.

pair 1, Sz 10 Burton Ruler Wide. Feet went numb in less than a few minutes.

pair 2, Sz 10 Ride Lasso (pretty sure they brought me wides). The exterior of the boot had an opening above my Instep, to the point you could see the liner. Could tell this would not fit immediately.

pair 3, Sz 10 Salomon (forget The model) Wide. The most comfortable of the bunch, but super tight and both feet numb in less than 5 minutes. I then tried on the same in 10.5 which didn’t seem to be any better at all for me as compared to the 10s.

I was with a boot fitter at Evo, so we made sure I wasn’t tightening anything down too much, and most of these I did not put any downward pressure on the top of my foot (when there was the dual BOA).

I think my instep must be high? I know I’ve had luck in the past, particularly with Reebok boosts, of removing the insole and sizing up quite a bit.
Thanks for all the help


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## justin_c (Dec 30, 2020)

I have very high insteps as well and a lot boots tend to numb my foot (not to mention binding straps). I usually cut off the top/forward portion of an aftermarket insole to relieve pressure on the instep while maintaining some arch support and heel hold. It's sometime a whole arts and crafts project getting my boots perfectly dialed, cutting some foam in places and adding some in others. 

I think a boot fitter like you're doing is the way to go, we can only offer suggestions here. Curious though, with the size 10s you tried on, how was the length of the boot? Were your toes hitting the front of the boot at all?


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## WigMar (Mar 17, 2019)

SandmanATHF said:


> I just tried on 3 pairs of wide boots.
> 
> pair 1, Sz 10 Burton Ruler Wide. Feet went numb in less than a few minutes.
> 
> ...


It's great that you went and tried on boots! You measured you foot at a size 9.5, and tried on a bunch of size 10...? Boots only get bigger as you mold them and use them. Getting boots that are wide enough is the problem. Sizing up on the length creates additional problems. Most shop employees shoot for a relaxed fit that is comfortable in the store without molding or mods- this always ends up being too large. They'll point you in the wrong direction more times than not. They want you to be happy today, not after five days on the mountain when the boots have packed out and you aren't their problem anymore. 

When you're trying on boots, you're looking for the closest fit to the shape of your foot as possible. Unless you're really lucky, no boot will fit well without different insoles and heat molding. You're looking for pressure points and areas of looseness more than being able to hang out in the boot for awhile without numbness. 

Once you get something that's close, you might have to try different insoles in there to get a good match between supporting your arches and having the correct volume for your foot.

Heat molding should be considered mandatory. Liners are designed to be heat molded, and are left pretty formless from the factory. EVA foam actually moves from areas of high pressure to low pressure areas, giving you a custom fitted boot liner with just heat molding. Wearing in boots to break them in only packs the foam down, without moving it out of tight areas into loose areas.

A properly fitted and molded boot should feel like it's been cast around your foot- as if you poured foam plaster around it. Any movement within the boot translates to a loss of power, fatigue and pain.


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## SandmanATHF (Feb 28, 2021)

justin_c said:


> I have very high insteps as well and a lot boots tend to numb my foot (not to mention binding straps). I usually cut off the top/forward portion of an aftermarket insole to relieve pressure on the instep while maintaining some arch support and heel hold. It's sometime a whole arts and crafts project getting my boots perfectly dialed, cutting some foam in places and adding some in others.
> 
> I think a boot fitter like you're doing is the way to go, we can only offer suggestions here. Curious though, with the size 10s you tried on, how was the length of the boot? Were your toes hitting the front of the boot at all?


My toes were definitely touching, but not scrunched like my climbing shoes. One of the pairs I actually found uncomfortable on my big toe on just how it was hitting. I ended up going with 10’s, because he measured me in US which came to a 10.5, and then I had to beg to do mondo (confirmed my measurements at home). If I had found something comfortable at 10, then I would have tried a 9.5 and compared. Interestingly, with the Solomon’s I tried both 10 & 10.5 and the toe touch was almost the same it felt like, and I had no heel rise when imitating a toe side turn in either pair.


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## SandmanATHF (Feb 28, 2021)

WigMar said:


> It's great that you went and tried on boots! You measured you foot at a size 9.5, and tried on a bunch of size 10...? Boots only get bigger as you mold them and use them. Getting boots that are wide enough is the problem. Sizing up on the length creates additional problems. Most shop employees shoot for a relaxed fit that is comfortable in the store without molding or mods- this always ends up being too large. They'll point you in the wrong direction more times than not. They want you to be happy today, not after five days on the mountain when the boots have packed out and you aren't their problem anymore.
> 
> When you're trying on boots, you're looking for the closest fit to the shape of your foot as possible. Unless you're really lucky, no boot will fit well without different insoles and heat molding. You're looking for pressure points and areas of looseness more than being able to hang out in the boot for awhile without numbness.
> 
> ...


Thank you for the thoughtful reply! I tried on 10s and figured I could move down to 9.5 and try those if I found anything at 10 that fit. With where we are in season, supply, in-store especially, is a bit limited too.

A little more about me, I hike/jog/walk in minimalist/zero drop shoes, with almost no arch support (vivobarefoot). I think I’d be relatively okay having no arch support in my snowboard boots? I did the AZT in size 12 Altras (absolutely wild that I’m now finding out my shoe size is really 9.5 haha). I never had blisters, so I wonder if my high instep helped lock in my heel in other shoes? +I imagine they are supposed to fit loose. On the flip side, I climb in size 9 five.ten moccasins, with complete toe curling. If it wasn’t for some pinky toes pain, y climbing shoes are more comfortable than any snowboard boot I tried today.

How much does molding really effect the fit?

Also, I went ahead and took the insole completely out of my Mutiny’s and that helped a ton! I still feel pressure ontop of my instep, but it’s not the unbearable where you want to take your shoes off every hour. From my experience on other shoes, my biggest worry is warmth as I’ve found insoles are really important for warmth. My feet have constantly been cold in my boots, but maybe that is due to lack of circulation?

Thanks again for the help.If there was something I missed in your reply, feel free to tell me again. Sometimes it takes me a few times to understand 😂


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## SandmanATHF (Feb 28, 2021)

Here are a couple pics (my feet are inside in both) you can see there is barely, almost no overlap between tongues and sidewalls of liner and boot exterior. These are my mutiny’s, but it was a similar experience today when trying on the other boots. Hopefully this helps explain where the pressure is on my foot.


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## WigMar (Mar 17, 2019)

If you've been building up your foot strength, you may not need insoles at all. I'm not really sure. In my mind, the insoles are just there to prevent your arches from flattening and your foot becoming too long in the boot. If your arches are strong and don't collapse then you might be good to go. I have seen really thin and minimalist insoles out there too. 

It's been my experience that the veins on top of your foot are very important when it comes to getting cold feet. If the top of your foot is squished into the boot hard, it restricts blood flow to the foot which makes it get cold. When I heat mold my liners, I like to put some moleskin/adhesive foam on the area where the veins come together to bump that area out for increased blood supply. I've had much warmer feet since I've been taking care of those veins. 

Heat molding affects a boot's fit in a big way. It literally molds the boot to your foot in a way breaking boots in never could. Boots are designed around heat molding technology. Why skimp on bootfit? If there are hotspots, I'll reheat that specific area and move foam around until I get the fit I'm after. 

Wide boots have differently shaped toe boxes. Your toes are going to feel cramped in a boot that's too narrow- it will feel as if the boot was too short.

Once you've found boots that fit your foot shape well and you get them molded, you may still have to make some modifications. My liners are always modified in one way or another. Angry Snowboarder made a great video series about bootfitting on youtube. Here's a video on relieving instep pressure. It's one of the harder issues to deal with, but there certainly are options. Armed with some adhesive foam and a heat gun, you can coax a great fit out of your boots.


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## SandmanATHF (Feb 28, 2021)

WigMar said:


> If you've been building up your foot strength, you may not need insoles at all. I'm not really sure. In my mind, the insoles are just there to prevent your arches from flattening and your foot becoming too long in the boot. If your arches are strong and don't collapse then you might be good to go. I have seen really thin and minimalist insoles out there too.
> 
> It's been my experience that the veins on top of your foot are very important when it comes to getting cold feet. If the top of your foot is squished into the boot hard, it restricts blood flow to the foot which makes it get cold. When I heat mold my liners, I like to put some moleskin/adhesive foam on the area where the veins come together to bump that area out for increased blood supply. I've had much warmer feet since I've been taking care of those veins.
> 
> ...


THANK YOU! I’ve watched a ton of video and done research but have not watched this one. I think I’ll give this a try and see what happens. Most of my pain has been from the shell, so this should help. Luckily, I have duct tape and a heat gun, just need some foam.

Ill make sure to update with what I find!


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## Jack87 (Jan 9, 2021)

Congrats on sizing down! Your options for snowboards are nearly endless now.


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

Hi Sandman,

Your images above show Mondopoint 280 with is size 10 US in snowboard boots. Your measurements are for EEE width. Scanning above, have you already purchased boots? What model and size?

STOKED!


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## SandmanATHF (Feb 28, 2021)

Wiredsport said:


> Hi Sandman,
> 
> Your images above show Mondopoint 280 with is size 10 US in snowboard boots. Your measurements are for EEE width. Scanning above, have you already purchased boots? What model and size?
> 
> STOKED!


I currently own some DC Mutiny’s in Sz 11, but they are so uncomfortable I’m looking to try something new. Above I listed all the wides I tried to jo avail due to my instep.


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

SandmanATHF said:


> I currently own some DC Mutiny’s in Sz 11, but they are so uncomfortable I’m looking to try something new. Above I listed all the wides I tried to jo avail due to my instep.


Hi,
I would strongly suggest the Burton Ruler Wide or Burton Photon Wide in size 10. You are well within the size range for both. You will want to have them heat fit first thing. 

STOKED!


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## Ancient1 (Feb 18, 2018)

This isn't a new thread and I'm late to the game too. I have had a similar issue to the OP's only in running shoes. My solution has been to "lace around the problem". In other words skip the eye hole directly above the foot issues. May not work with snowboard boots but worth a try. FWIW I wear a 9 street shoe. My boots are Burton Rulers. My toe (right foot-maybe a quarter inch bigger than the left foot) barely grazes the boot toe. Nice tight fit-no heel movement at all. Warm and comfy. This all makes me curious at to why I would ever size down. Previous boots were always Vans and always size 9-all seemed to fit perfectly, so ???.


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

Ancient1 said:


> This isn't a new thread and I'm late to the game too. I have had a similar issue to the OP's only in running shoes. My solution has been to "lace around the problem". In other words skip the eye hole directly above the foot issues. May not work with snowboard boots but worth a try. FWIW I wear a 9 street shoe. My boots are Burton Rulers. My toe (right foot-maybe a quarter inch bigger than the left foot) barely grazes the boot toe. Nice tight fit-no heel movement at all. Warm and comfy. This all makes me curious at to why I would ever size down. Previous boots were always Vans and always size 9-all seemed to fit perfectly, so ???.


Hi Ancient,

That would really depend on the specifics of your feet. Please post up images of your four barefoot measurements being taken.

STOKED!


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## Ancient1 (Feb 18, 2018)

Wiredsport said:


> Hi Ancient,
> 
> That would really depend on the specifics of your feet. Please post up images of your four barefoot measurements being taken.
> 
> STOKED!


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## Ancient1 (Feb 18, 2018)

OK, so what's the point? If what I have fits and is comfortable why? Perhaps prior to getting new ones; my Rulers are almost new......so.......


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

Ancient1 said:


> OK, so what's the point? If what I have fits and is comfortable why? Perhaps prior to getting new ones; my Rulers are almost new......so.......


Hi Ancient,
The perfect (Mondopoint) fit will allow a dramatic increase in performance. US shoe size (Brannock) and snowboard boot size (Mondopoint) are never the same. If you are interested in pursuing that I will be happy to have a look. You don't need to sacrifice comfort for the correct Mondo fit. 

STOKED!


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## Ancient1 (Feb 18, 2018)

Wiredsport said:


> Hi Ancient,
> The perfect (Mondopoint) fit will allow a dramatic increase in performance. US shoe size (Brannock) and snowboard boot size (Mondopoint) are never the same. If you are interested in pursuing that I will be happy to have a look. You don't need to sacrifice comfort for the correct Mondo fit.
> 
> STOKED!


Alright, I'll play. I read up on mondopoint sizing. Kind of confusing. Looks like my boots are the proper size. I guess that also depends on the specific boots, manufacturer etc., as all size 9 for example aren't all the same exact size. Based on what I read and the "feel" of my boots which are about 5 years old but not worn until last week, I should be good! Give me a day or so to get the photos. Do I post them to this thread or somewhere else.

Thanks!


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

Ancient1 said:


> Alright, I'll play. I read up on mondopoint sizing. Kind of confusing. Looks like my boots are the proper size. I guess that also depends on the specific boots, manufacturer etc., as all size 9 for example aren't all the same exact size. Based on what I read and the "feel" of my boots which are about 5 years old but not worn until last week, I should be good! Give me a day or so to get the photos. Do I post them to this thread or somewhere else.
> 
> Thanks!


Yes, Please post them here and I will be happy to confirm. 

STOKED!


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## Jack87 (Jan 9, 2021)

You can post them here if you like.


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