# Skidded Turns vs. Carving



## Extremo

Carving is def something that takes a lot of practice. I ride pretty much only park so I really don't have an edge on my board and I just skid around everywhere. I got my misfit sharpened and ready for some big mountain ripping but found my edges grip so tight my body doesn't really know what's going on. I'm not sure if I really want to spend any time out of the park so I probably won't be learning this stuff anytime soon. But it makes me look at true carving with a new perspective for sure.


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## rasmasyean

Carving is like riding a rollercoaster. When you cut a good carve, you should feel your legs burn and it feels like you weight 3 times more.


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## Grizz

Carving board with a skidding body, damn Euros. Killer edge angle.


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## haffajappa

this is a good thread because i had the same questions!
i was quite proud of myself when, by my 4th or 5th time on the mountain my boyfriend said i was getting pretty good at carving.

but i'm not entirely sure i'm doing the true definition of carving.. i've seen comments float around about how people think they're carving but they're really not, and i guess that's me. 

though i'm still a beginner i can make it down the greens and blues pretty decently i just don't know if i'm making the proper fluent motion down the hill :dunno:


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## Grizz

haffajappa said:


> i'm not entirely sure i'm doing the true definition of carving


Congrats on linking turns down the hill. I'm sure your BF is stoked.

It's easy to tell if you are carving. If you look back up the hill at your track, do you see a line thinner than the width of your board or one that is wider? If you are truly carving your track won't be wider than the boards width.


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## Karasene

haha nice video. 
I have yet to see someone carve like that. I think its funny that its a groomer tho.. if I were dreaming about extreame carving I wouldn't be dreaming about groomers.

Snowolf yours is nice too


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## rasmasyean

It takes a lot of leg power, balance and form to do what that video is doing (even with the right equipment) but if you look at his trail in the slo mos, you can see that it's a thin line. He doesn't "skid" his snowboard. At high enough G's in a high speed turn, the sidecut as well as the board bends making it sort of like a U-shaped ice skate. This cuts into the snow and digs a little track for this U-skate to ride along. He doesn't throw that much snow for his speed because the only snow comming out of the ground is from that tip digging out a thin "slot" along the path. If it was a skid at that speed, it would look like a tidal wave. Good carvers also end their turn by "boosting" themselves into the next turn when the board "snaps back" like a spring. It's supposed to be possible to gain speed this way and is a method racers try to perfect.

Anyways, more down to earth, you can carve bigger raduis turns without laying on the ground like them. You just have to be wary not to skid. The more you skid, the louder your boarding is because you're scraping the snow. So you can listen to yourself as you ride and can tell when you are carving by that if you don't want to stop and look up.

If you want to get "closest" to that video without hardbooting, you can use a more "forward" stance so you can square up your shoulders almost like you're facing forward like those dudes. When I was into it, I did 30 15 (or 45 30, I forget) and I had a directional sort of stiff board which helps. Then you can pretty much lean more or so "left and right" and it will turn by itself if you balance correctly. At some cases I was able to go sightly "uphill" before transitioning to a new turn too...but you have to go fast and if you slip, you might just fly into the trees in the side.


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## Grizz

rasmasyean said:


> At some cases I was able to go sightly "uphill" before transitioning to a new turn too...but you have to go fast and if you slip, you might just fly into the trees in the side.


Speaking of uphill carving, have you ever tried a carved 360?


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## rasmasyean

Grizz said:


> Have you ever tried a carved 360? Takes a lot of speed.


I thought that would be cool, but I did actually fly into the trees trying! :laugh:

I've never seen that. Are you saying you can do it?


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## Grizz

rasmasyean said:


> Are you saying you can do it?


No. I've tried it with softboots and freeride gear. I can carve until the board is pointing straight up the fall line, then I loose momentum and have to complete the 360 with a skid/pivot. I'd like to give it a shot on hard boots and carving board.


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## basso4735

what would these tracks be?


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## Tarzanman

Wabbit twacks! Be veeeeeeeewey veewey quiet!


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## ev13wt

Tarzanman said:


> Wabbit twacks! Be veeeeeeeewey veewey quiet!


Its too dark to see that.

I brightened up your pic a bit to show the true tracks! 











Oh and carved is like ice skating tracks. 

Carved: Only on the edge
Skidded: With the base

If you are asking if they where carved, they are not. Why? Because you would not need to ask. The board is much "quieter" underfoot when carving. You will notice it instantly. Go for front side carves first. Just go fast, initiate a turn and bend your knees far. Let yourself fall into the knees/turn towards the mountain and then push yourself "out" by straightening your legs a bit (Like a push-up). Prepare to be thrown on your ass. Laugh, say: "Oh fuck yea!" and then do it again.


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## theusername

Snowolf said:


> True carving takes quite a bit of practice and riding experience to get decent at so don`t rush things too fast. Work on improving your skidded turns and dynamic skidded turns, then move on to carving.
> 
> To answer your question, in the most basic definition a carved turn is a turn where the rider uses tilt to engage the sidecut and allows the sidecut to execute the turn where the tail follows in the same track as the nose.
> 
> Our skidded turns allow the tail to travel in a bigger arc than the nose and it skids throughout the turn. All of my turns in that video were still skidded turns even though the amount of skid was reduced.
> 
> To start playing around with a carved turn, pick a nice open are with a gentle pitch. For your first basic carved turns, use inclination (leaning of the entire body) to initiate your turns. In these turns, both feet manipulate the board simultaneously to tilt it on its edge. Once the board is tilted, the sidecut will initiate the turn and you can regulate the radius of the turn through your edge angle. Keep your shoulders and hips aligned with the board and your weight between your bindings. Your goal is to use turn shape to control speed and not allow the tail to break free and skid to the outside of the turn.


I keep rereading that but don't understand :/
what's a sidecut? I think that's why I have no idea what to make of that answer. you keep using that word and i can only guess what it means, I really have no idea for sure though.

Also, what's flexing and extending or something like that? The instructor I was with today and the last few days who is trying to teach me to carve kept saying that but never explained what it means. 

And last thing, after the snowstorm here a few days ago there are a lot of bumps on the snow, and whenever I try to carve and get to those bumps I freeze up because if I just ignore them I start jumping up and down and up and down and I end up flying onto the snow. What should I do to keep myself more in control when it gets bumpy? I tried bending my knees more but it doesn't seem to help so much.


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## DiamondCarver

If someone could explain this 'unweighting' term that would be great.


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## baldylox

theusername said:


> what's a sidecut?


If you look at your snowboard from the top, the sides are not straight. The board is narrower at the middle and if you continued the path the edge takes it would form a circle on each side.


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## baldylox

Snowolf said:


> A true carve has no skid and the track should be about 1/2 the width of your board.


Half the width? I'd say it's about equal to the thickness of the board. Wider depending on the depth of the snow.


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## theusername

cifex said:


> If you look at your snowboard from the top, the sides are not straight. The board is narrower at the middle and if you continued the path the edge takes it would form a circle on each side.


oh, thanks, and the picture was really helpful too


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## Karasene

DiamondCarver said:


> If someone could explain this 'unweighting' term that would be great.


"Unweighting" descibed by Snowolf in another thread. I'm sure this will help.




Snowolf said:


> Jeklund said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think you should reread the post he said that "Slashing" can be used as an effective braking technique not for turn initiation.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm having issues with this aspect of my riding, my problem has to do with part of the turn initiation. Once i get my edge set I seem to be able to hold it throughout the turn but it's during my edge change and getting that edge set is where the issues arise. It almost seems as if my rear leg rides really heavy(Not in the sense that I'm riding backseat) and struggles to come around. I think a better way of explaining it is that my read leg seems to take a larger than normal turning radius and does so very slow. It's not as much of a problem when I'm in an open area as i can just grind out the turn over a larger area. But when I'm in the trees is where it's really an issue as I just don't have as much room to complete my turn and require a quick edge to edge transition. I'm just more less wondering how i can bring that rear leg around quicker and set my edge to prevent slipping down the hill? I'm thinking it has something to down with unweighting but I'm having troubles understanding the whole concept and how to do it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Try a couple of things:
> 
> First, work on using a down unweighting maneuver versus up unweighting. An up unweight is basically a rapid extension of the lower body to pop up thus momentarily unweighting the board. A down unweight involves a sudden dropping of the upper by by rapidly flexing ankles, knees and hips. When you do this rapidly, there is a briefer period of "weightlessness" and your board remains in contact with the surface. On steep terrain, this keeps your entire body lower and closer to the slope, improving your overall balance. The down unweight to make the edge change is a huge help for making these very quick and positive edge changes with minimul time where the board is not weighted on the snow.
> 
> Secondly, start playing around with good fore-aft movements. This accomplishes what the kicking of the tail out weakly tries to accomplsh only much easier, more efficiently and way more effectively with the added benefit of maintaining a good set edge in the snow. Unweighting the tail is what causes the board chatter at the bottom of turn.
> 
> So, when you come out of one turn and are ready to make your quick, positive edge change, rapidly drop toward your board and use the ankles (angulation) to accomplish the edge change. As soon as this occurrs, you are initiating the turn and your weight should be shifted forward over the front foot. The reason for this is that you want to get that edge set early in the turn and the added weight up front does this very well.
> 
> As your board enters the fall line in the control phase of the turn, shift your weight aft of center to set up for good, quick turn completion. The reason for this is that as your travel through the control phase to the completion phase, your momentum down the hill combined with your weight, combined with the centrifugal force generated by the turn all come together at the bottom of the turn with a hell of a lot of force trying to break your edge free uncontrollably down the hill. The increased weight aft greatly increases the edge hold and drag and keeps the skidded turn very controllable
> 
> I just worked with this tonight to negotiate medium sized bumps on a 40 degree pitch in one of our bowls. It is amazing how quickly the board turns in control and how slow you come out of each turn. I was able to ride a zipper line down through the bumps; riding the troughs created by skier`s lines and was able to manage speed giving me the time to turn the board around between bumps.
Click to expand...


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## rasmasyean

DiamondCarver said:


> If someone could explain this 'unweighting' term that would be great.


Jump and you have just up-unweighted.

Squat real fast and you have just down-unweighted. If you do this fast enough, your feet would even come off the ground...which I guess would be called something like 100% down unwieghting or something.


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## baldylox

I see what you are getting at. Thanks for clearing that up.


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## AAA

Skidded turns leave a swath of mashed snow. Carved runs leaves pencil thin trenches, as in this photo, which were made by half a dozen carvers over the course of a morning. 'Tis a thing of beauty, isn't it?


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## Grizz

AAA said:


> Carved runs leaves pencil thin trenches


Not always, as outlined in many posts above.


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