# Bindings for Never Summer Heritage



## kalib77 (Aug 27, 2014)

Hey guys, new here, and somewhat new to snowboarding. Will be approaching my second season here in Colorado, and now that I have progressed I am looking to build my own setup. I am planning on buying a Never Summer Heritage and am torn as to what bindings to get. Really liking the Union Contact Pro's but also leaning towards the Union Chargers. Have also been considering the Flow NX2-AT. I am really liking the Chargers but have been told they have a lot of durabilty issues. I usually prefer to haul ass down mountains and through tree's as well as being able to make sharp turns as well as nice wide one's. Something responsive as well as somewhat stiff. Thank you in advance!


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## snowklinger (Aug 30, 2011)

just get a pair of cartels


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## NWBoarder (Jan 10, 2010)

The Chargers would be a fine binding for it. The contact Pro's would be alright, but maybe a little "looser" feeling in the response department. Klingers suggestion for the Cartels is a good one too. They should be similar in feeling to the Contact Pro's. The Rome Targa is another binding worth checking out. Not as stiff as the Chargers, but stiffer than the Contact Pro's and Cartels. FWIW, I rode mine last season with Rome 390 Boss bindings, but likely will be switching to some Targas this season.


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## hardasacatshead (Aug 21, 2013)

snowklinger said:


> just get a pair of cartels


This statement should auto pop up for every "Which Bindings" thread for an all mountain board.


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## kaipirinha81 (Jan 20, 2010)

In order to avoid open another new topic I will ask permission to the author of this topic to share it because I am in a similar Situation I have a Never Summer Heritage X 2014 size 159 and I pretend to buy a good pair of bindings to match with these boards and with my K2 Thraxis. I think I am looking for a more oriented All Mountain Binding something Medium/Stiff.
I would like to hear your opinions.
At moment I am considering Union Atlas or Force (I can't know the difference between them Yet), Rome Targa (the most cool design in my opinion but I also read bad things about it), Ride Capo (don't know much about it, but seems reliable solid stuff) and the Burton Cartels that (but it seems there are diferent version on this model reflex, etc and I don't know wich to choose)
In advance I want to thank you for your opinions
Best regards


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## Steezus Christ (Jul 29, 2013)

the only thing that makes me a little skeptical of the cartels is the thin piece of plastic that holds the highbacks to the binding and the big gap where the forward lean adjuster is. theres a guy that rides at my resort that completely folded in the plastic on the inside of the highback and doesnt look as though he would be getting too much response with it. he still rides with them though, not sure he realizes its even there. anybody else experience this? it could just be from improper adjusting.


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## Brewtown (Feb 16, 2014)

What boots do you have? 

All I can say is the Atlases and Cartels are both really good, versatile all mountain bindings. The differences between them are marginal and mostly come down to individual preference. The one thing I definitely like better about my atlases is that they are more adjustable. I believe they have made several changes to both the Contact Pros and Forces in the last year or two so I can't really comment on the differences there. Pretty sure the Targas, Chargers, and Capos will all be stiffer so really just depends what you're looking for.


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## kaipirinha81 (Jan 20, 2010)

I have a pair of K2 Thraxis, and also have a pair of old Salomon faction but the K2 Thraxis are the ones that I will use most of the time.


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## Brewtown (Feb 16, 2014)

What size? The reason I ask is I've found that the adjustable heel loop on the Atlases makes centering "in between" sized boots much easier. Also while I've never tried the Targas I know that the 390s have a pretty narrow heel loop. Just something to consider.


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## kaipirinha81 (Jan 20, 2010)

The size is 11.5 US (29.5 cm)


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## Brewtown (Feb 16, 2014)

I don't think either of those has a very reduced footprint so you should be ok with a large in any of those bindings. I went from a size 12 forum kicker to an 11.5 32 lashed which also has a more reduced footprint this year and found my large cartels wouldn't center on some of my boards. Really don't think you can go wrong with any of those options, just depends how aggressive you want to go.


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## kaipirinha81 (Jan 20, 2010)

By the way and regarding my boot size 11.5 US (on the outside the boot measures 33cm), should I be better with a board with only 25.6 waist width 160 long, or on a board with 26.4 waist width and 159 long?
Best regards


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## Brewtown (Feb 16, 2014)

25.6 for sure.


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## kaipirinha81 (Jan 20, 2010)

First I want to thank you all for your opinions.
Has I was forced to move (out of stock) from the wider version of the Heritage 159 (26.1 waist width) to the regular version of the Heritage 160 (25.6 waist width), now I have to consider another detail in the bindings for the Setup they should have a ramp angle that allow to avoid or minimize the toe and heel overhang that can be caused by my K2 Thraxis size 11.5 US (33cm measured of the outside of the boot).


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## highme (Dec 2, 2012)

I have a HeritageX w/ 2013 Force-SLs on it. They're stiff & super responsive and I have no complaints about them.

However, I picked up some 2013ish (not exactly sure of the year) Cartels at an REI garage sale that I didn't get around to mounting on anything until last spring when I was in CO for a couple of days. My brother in laws board I was on was awful, but those Cartels are the truth. I haven't mounted them up to my Heritage yet but probably will when the season starts. We're headed to Japan at Xmas and taking 2 boards & 1 pair of bindings each. I have to decide which pair I want to take.


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## kaipirinha81 (Jan 20, 2010)

highme from what I understand you prefer the cartels over the Union Force what major diferences did you noticed (since you liked the Force's also).
By the way you were using a wide version of the heritage I would prefer to have that version also but it went out of stock and I have to move for a regular version with only 25.6 waist width and I am a litle worried if I will suffer of the overhang problem and I am searching for a good (medium/stiff) binding that also allow me to elevate my toe and heel in order to avoid or minimize the heel/toe overhang. Am I thinking right?
Best regards


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## DevilWithin (Sep 16, 2013)

kaipirinha81 said:


> ...and the Burton Cartels that (but it seems there are diferent version on this model reflex, etc and I don't know wich to choose)


Burton bindings come in EST and Re:Flex. The difference is that the EST is compatible exclusively with boards featuring The Channel (really only Burton boards even though technically others can use it), while the Re:Flex is compatible with all major mounting systems. 

You'd want to get the Cartel Re:Flex version if you plan on mounting them on the NS Heritage. 

If that doesn't make sense, you can check out the EST and Re:Flex product manuals on Burton's site here: Burton Snowboards | Product Manuals


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## kaipirinha81 (Jan 20, 2010)

DevilWithin Thanks for the explanation I am not familiar with Burton products now I already know the meaning of the "Reflex". Regarding the EST I already knew it.
By the way as you are a more experienced member of this forum perhaps you didn't mind to provide your opinion regarding my worries with the heel/toe overhang, and if it will be a problem what solutions do I have?
Best regards


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## Brewtown (Feb 16, 2014)

If we are talking 2013 Forces then the highback is slightly stiffer with less lateral flex and a relatively similar base plate when compared to the cartel. However looking on Union's website they have upgraded both the highback and baseplate this year so it all depends what year you are planning on buying. 

As far as board with: My size 11.5 32s measure 33.4 cms and right now I have about 6 boards ranging from 25.1 to 26.4 waist width. I can assure you that you will have no problems with overhang on anything over 25.5. 26.1 would be fine, but more than that and you are getting into too wide territory where you will probably notice a decrease in heel to toe response and may have difficulty centering your boots on the board. Remember a bit of overhang (about 1/2 an inch to an inch on either side) is necessary to give you leverage to turn your board on edge. No overhang is a bad thing.


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## kaipirinha81 (Jan 20, 2010)

Regarding the bindings I am looking for 2013 and 2014 and if I decide to Unions I will choose the year that I will consider best for my setup because the price is similar. However a detail that I will take in consideration from now on is the possibility of reduce the overhang that I think it will may need to be reduced, I understand and apreciated you explanation and I am starting to become more relaxed regarding this matter of the overhang.
In case of no problem with the overhang it will be perfect but if in case of problems a binding that could give a help with the ramp angle would be a plus.
Coming back to the bindings regarding Cartels, Atlas and Forces they look similar from what you said and I like all of them. I will try to look at his footbed more in detail to imagine the ramp angle in order to help in my final decision. But regarding the Rome Targas that I also liked a lot I already know that they are a little more stiffer than the models I mentioned above but regarding his quality and reliability (I ask this because I read good and bad things about it).
And Brewton wich angles do you use on your bindings when you ride your board that has 25.5cm waist width?


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## Manicmouse (Apr 7, 2014)

Avoid 2012/2013 Union toe straps, they are hard to release! Union apparently fixed it in the latest models.


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## kaipirinha81 (Jan 20, 2010)

Manicmouse said:


> Avoid 2012/2013 Union toe straps, they are hard to release! Union apparently fixed it in the latest models.


Thanks for the Tip I will avoid this years Models.
Best regards


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## Brewtown (Feb 16, 2014)

15/12. Trust me you are completely over thinking at this point. If you set them at 0/0 at the narrowest possible stance width then maybe you would have a problem, otherwise 25.6 is fine no matter what binding you go with. Going any wider than that is purely preference for a wide board, you don't need it.


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## highme (Dec 2, 2012)

kaipirinha81 said:


> highme from what I understand you prefer the cartels over the Union Force what major diferences did you noticed (since you liked the Force's also).


It's already been stated, but you will be fine with that waist width. I have size 12s & as long as I have a 25cm waist width I'm pretty comfortable.

I like both bindings about the same, they each have good points and flaws. I like the adjustable heel loop on the Unions, but I think I have the 12/13 models & the toe ratchet can be problematic. The Cartels were super comfy & all the hardware works like a champ. They are a little softer than the Unions. The Unions do have the adjustable toe ramp (I don't remember if the Cartels do or not).

Basically, if I were in your shoes, I'd buy whichever pair I could get the best deal on.


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## chomps1211 (Mar 30, 2011)

highme said:


> I like both bindings about the same, they each have good points and flaws. *I like the adjustable heel loop on the Unions*, but I think I have the 12/13 models & the toe ratchet can be problematic. The Cartels were super comfy & all the hardware works like a champ. They are a little softer than the Unions. The Unions do have the adjustable toe ramp (*I don't remember if the Cartels do or not*).


If you are going to go with the reflex Cartel's? Make sure they center up properly on your board with your boots in them. They do not have adjustable heel cups and unless there has been a design change in recent models? Some people have reported trouble getting them to center up on their decks.

I own three pairs of Cartels. Two from 2010/11, before they went with the reflex design and a reflex pair from 2012/13. I really like the Cartels, but,… I bought them for my NS Proto. Turns out I couldn't use them on the Proto or my Arbor Roundhouse. They wouldn't center the up properly with my boots. I had either too much toe or heel overhang. (+18 / -12 angles.) The only deck I have that they would center on on was my Rome Garage Rocker.

…and the Reflex model does have an adjustable toe ramp.


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## kaipirinha81 (Jan 20, 2010)

Sorry about my bad english it is not my mother language. From what I understand from your post the heel cups are adjustable (I didn't know that I thought they were fixed) and they should be alligned by a pro? Where is the problem I am not seeing the point. As I will order them online I don't have option to ask to a pro to center anything. I don't have snowshops in my area.
If you could explain better the situation of the heel cups I would apreciated.
As you already had experience with Rome what do you think of their Targa's?
Best regards


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## highme (Dec 2, 2012)

It's something you can do on your own. You don't need to pay anybody to do it.


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## Brewtown (Feb 16, 2014)

kaipirinha81 said:


> Sorry about my bad english it is not my mother language. From what I understand from your post the heel cups are adjustable (I didn't know that I thought they were fixed) and they should be alligned by a pro? Where is the problem I am not seeing the point. As I will order them online I don't have option to ask to a pro to center anything. I don't have snowshops in my area.
> If you could explain better the situation of the heel cups I would apreciated.
> As you already had experience with Rome what do you think of their Targa's?
> Best regards


Ok are you familiar with how to mount bindings on a board? And how to adjust them in order to get your boot centered on the board (equal overhang toeside and heelside)? 

The heel loop is adjustable on the Atlas and Targa, meaning you will be able to perfectly center your boots on just about any board. The Cartel has a solid heel loop so your ability to center your boots is limited to moving the entire baseplate forward or backward, which you can only move about a cm in either direction. 

Since we have similar size boots I'll make this easy: If you buy the 25.6 board you will be able to center your boots just fine with a size large cartel. If you go with the 26.4 you will have more overhang on the heel side than the toe side. With the Atlases you can get just about any size board you want and you will be able to adjust the heel loop to get your boots centered.


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## chomps1211 (Mar 30, 2011)

Brewtown said:


> The heel loop is adjustable on the Atlas and Targa, meaning you will be able to perfectly center your boots on just about any board. *The Cartel has a solid heel loop so your ability to center your boots is limited to moving the entire baseplate forward or backward, which you can only move about a cm in either direction.
> *.


That movement fore & aft was even more restricted with the new reflex models of the Cartels. They removed material from the mounting base plate to let the binding flex with the board. To do so they had to get rid of one of the mounting screw holes. :dunno:


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## linvillegorge (Jul 6, 2009)

Can't wait until this guy asks about waxing...


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## Brewtown (Feb 16, 2014)

chomps1211 said:


> That movement fore & aft was even more restricted with the new reflex models of the Cartels. They removed material from the mounting base plate to let the binding flex with the board. To do so they had to get rid of one of the mounting screw holes. :dunno:


Yeah a cm might be generous. I love the binding but it's crazy how deep the heel loop is. I'm actually surprised I haven't seen more complaints about this as the large is recommended for size 10+ and yet I have to keep my 11.5s pushed forward on every board I have. There's no way a size 10 would get centered in those bindings if it has any kind of footprint reduction.


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## kaipirinha81 (Jan 20, 2010)

linvillegorge said:


> Can't wait until this guy asks about waxing...


No I promise I won't ask about waxing in this topic. Sometimes my question could be very ridiculous, but I ask Because I am a litle newbie in this. The only experience I have with gear was my actual nitro prime taped with raiden strike bindings that does not have heel cup adjustment and I thought all bindings were like this.
I already understand that if I go with the cartels I will have more problems to try to center the binding and the boot on the board. 
So I will have to take this into consideration also, at the moment I the Union Atlas from 2014 are in advantage I haven't read about any major problems, but I would like to know opinions regarding the Rome Targa 2014 I have read in this forum good and bad things I would like to have opinions regarding his reliability if you know anyone who have tried this or you already try them? 
The Targa seems very atractive to me but I don't want a binding that I have to re-tight the so many screws that it has after 2 or 3 runs (I read some reports about this). At least that they stay in place during an entire day on the slopes.


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