# Burton Cartel, chewed up boots...HELP!



## ARSENALFAN

http://www.snowboardingforum.com/boots/54313-what-causing.html


Those Cartels we have are very hungry.


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## jwelsh83

NO JOKE MAN! I just bought these DK's for this season...I did notice the ridges on the binding and found that to be the culprit. So other than that, no other fix really? No issues with ratcheting too tight or anything? Kinda sucks...I just didn't know if it was something I was doing...Maybe that is a flaw burton needs to know about.


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## ARSENALFAN

jwelsh83 said:


> NO JOKE MAN! I just bought these DK's for this season...I did notice the ridges on the binding and found that to be the culprit. So other than that, no other fix really? No issues with ratcheting too tight or anything? Kinda sucks...I just didn't know if it was something I was doing...Maybe that is a flaw burton needs to know about.



Use that shit the guy told me about in the thread. Boots good as new. I ride Now IPO's now unless I am on my powder board, so I expect a little less wear.


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## jwelsh83

Thanks for help man. I ended up going out and getting some Malavita EST's and the same shop I bought the Cartels. There's no ridge on the lower of the high back on the Malavitas. I explained everything to the shop about the Cartels and a manager there said he works with Burton and knows the guy who helps design their bindings and said he'd talk to them and he'd see about what to do with my Cartels. I ended up getting a reply from Burton and they tried telling it was an issue with my boots and needed to contact Nike...yea okay...Ill wait and see what the manager of the shop says...If worse comes to worse, Ill sell the Cartels to somebody. Beats buying new boots in the future and having those get chewed up too.


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## m0rph3us

Ironically, my Burton Ruler boots put some pretty heavy wear on the ankle straps on my Union Atlas bindings. Maybe Burton gear is either a) just a lot tougher, or b) likes trashing competitor gear?


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## StrattonRider

jwelsh83 said:


> Guys and Gals. I'm new to the snowboard forum and would consider myself a transition between new-intermediate snowboarder and recently bought some new Burton Cartels for my Burton Process board. I wear size 10 boot and have a large binding. I wear Nike DK's, which I do know that Nike boots are probably some of the biggest boots out there. I went through as usual with setting up the bindings like my last ones...adjust the toe ramp, center the straps with the boot, adjust the high back parallel with the board, yada yada. after going out with the new set up, Ive noticed the back of my boots showing significant wear on the heal, where it rests against the high back. Since I ride goofy, I've noticed the most wear on the right boot that the insulation is poking through the whole. I don't know if it's issue with me ratcheting my bindings too tight, maybe my heel is moving while ratcheted causing the rub and wear or maybe I need to adjust the ankle strap so it is applying more pressure toward the high back when it is ratcheted to provide more stability, thus, no additional wear. Nothing like spending $200-$300 on boots and having them get chewed...I would appreciate some insight...Thanks!


i have the cartels also and i have nike vapen boot. There is a hole in my back boot heal. it went right through the top material and you can see white. I think it is the ridges in the heal cup of the binding. It helps with your front foot but just tears through your back foot. I don't think i will buy cartels again.


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## cwilson

if the ridges are whats causing the damage why not just file/sand them down so that they are smooth?


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## jwelsh83

cwilson, I thought about filing down the ridges, but why does one need to spend $250+ on bindings and resort to altering them? The most recent email I again received from Burton was that they told me they could send me another high back but since they were used they could not set up a return, which is understandable. The Burton Missions also have the high back ridge, but my question is why is the ridge there if some of their other high end bindings like the Malavita, Genesis, and Diode do not have it?! I know those bindings have their heel hammock, but still...if it serves a purpose?! I love the Cartels and functionality isn't an issue, It's the fact that they will eat your $200+ boots!


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## jwelsh83

These are my boots, Nike DK's, size 10 on a Large Cartel...not too much wear, but enough to show insulation after only 7 uses!


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## m0rph3us

After reading this I had a look at my Burton Rulers when I got home. They have a line down the back of the calf/heel that looks like its designed to try and grip the ridges in the heel cup. No idea if it actually makes any difference to riding.


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## BurtonBindings

Yep. That ridge down the back of the boots is called a backstay. It's a polymer or co-polymer that adds some rigidity to the boots so the don't break down as fast with boots without it. We put those ridges in the highback to interlock with the ridges of our boots for better heel hold.

It's unfortunate that other companies don't use such backstays because it does drastically pro-long the life of a boot. However, I can assure you that we didn't put them there to sabotage your non-burton boots. 

Also, they've been in our highbacks for several years dating back to 2007.


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## m0rph3us

^^ This makes me pretty stoked to have just bought some Burton Cartels to go with my Ruler boots (which I love).


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## super-rad

I have 2012 Cartel Restricted bindings and 2012 Ruler Restricted boots and they go great together. The only issue I've had is something is tearing up the rubberized material on the left side of my right (rear) boot. From what I can tell, the only thing rubbing that spot is the ankle strap, so maybe my riding technique is a little sloppy...


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## m0rph3us

That's exactly just what I wanted to hear.

By the way, it is pretty cool how most of the manufacturers have reps that pop up on these threads to explain stuff like this for us.


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## BurtonBindings

I'm no rep.
I'm the product manager.

I make stuff.
Reps sell stuff.


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## m0rph3us

That's even better then.

By the way, your job is awesome and I want it (although I would have no idea how to do it).


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## TorpedoVegas

I thought this thread was funny because half the time you see threads where people are like:

"my boots packed out in 10 days and I had to get new ones...15 days! ....I only got 20 days before these ones packed out" 

or else people are like:

" WTF! I only have 40 days on these boots and now I have some scratches on the back...what do I do now!"....hehe

I can't figure you people out.


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## JBthe3rd

I wish I woulda know this ahead of time... These are really good bindings but they have messed up my Nike Vapens after only 2 days of riding.. Smh


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## jwelsh83

BurtonBindings - appreciate the info on the reasoning of the ridges and backstay. How come no ridges on some of the newer bindings like the Malavita, Genesis, or Diode...because of the hammock back? Also, is the backstay on ALL burton boots? Thanks!


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## BurtonBindings

So no ridges on Malavita, Genesis, Lexa or Escapade models due the hammock doing that work and better.
Diode, it's not on their because it's too difficult to get that kind of definition in hand layer up carbon.

As far as backstays being on all Burton boot's, some may not have received them. The only one i can think of is the 2012 Rover and maybe the women's Momento. But if it's not ALL, it's on ALL that you'll likely see because the boots i just mentioned are so limited, basically no one can buy them.


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## jwelsh83

Gotcha, appreciate it. It is great to hear this kind of info from the horse's mouth per say. I will look into all that stuff when purchasing boots and bindings in the future...don't know why Nike does not have backstays but the current ones I have should suffice since I have the Malavitas.


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## JBthe3rd

What are some ideas for solutions to cover up the ridges ? I tried tape but it came right off after a few runs...


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## cwilson

JBthe3rd said:


> What are some ideas for solutions to cover up the ridges ? I tried tape but it came right off after a few runs...


I am going to just sand the ridges down smooth on mine since I noticed they are starting to damage my brand new burton rampant boots


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## JBthe3rd

Oh okay let me know how that goes... I'm scared to try it lol... But something needs to be done because I love these bindings but they are killing my Nike Vapens!


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## jwelsh83

I know it sounds like a pain, but get new bindings if you have the $$ unless filing them down works for you. I bought the Malavitas, no ridges, problem solved. Just be cautious in the future... but I feel your pain on your Vapens. My DK's are torched! FYI, the Missions have the ridges as well. When and if you do plan to buy different bindings, definitely go in store and check them out to see if they do have ridges. Can't blame Burton, it wouldn't be as bad if Nike did have back stays on their boots but it sucks...


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## glaucon

The Cartels don't just discriminate against non-Burton boots. I bought new cartels and Driver X boots this season and I'm already seeing wear through the material on the back of the heel on the boots.

I'm extremely disappointed, this is brand new gear.

Any advice on that, BurtonBindings?


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## BurtonBindings

unfortunately it's a boot warranty.
we're looking into making the ridges less aggressive for the 2015 season


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## glaucon

BurtonBindings said:


> unfortunately it's a boot warranty.
> we're looking into making the ridges less aggressive for the 2015 season


Pretty sure it's a binding defect as well, given the subject matter of this thread and what you just said about the ridges. But that's ok, I'll take it through the proper channels.


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## herjazz

seems like you can just file it down if it's giving your boots premature wear...


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## tokyo_dom

BurtonBindings/Glaucon, i have noticed some gnarly wear on my Burton Ambush boots as well, from my Mission Restricted bindings (after about 8 days use). Checking the Burton site I see the driver X has similar design at the back - that backstay doesnt go all the way to the sole. The binding appears to be attacking the top of the heel strip bit where the backstay ends - i hope that isnt a structural part of the boot because the stitching on mine is about to be worn through...


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## East§ide

oddly enough, my Rome Libertines (2013) have matching ridges on the back of the boot and they fit together perfectly with the Cartels. I havent noticed any wear or tear on my boots since switching to Cartels.


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## reneftw

Hi guys. Sorry to dig up such an old thread, but is there any solution for this problem? Does sanding down the ridges work? Got this season 2017 Cartels and chewed my boot after just the first day riding.


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## F1EA

reneftw said:


> Hi guys. Sorry to dig up such an old thread, but is there any solution for this problem? Does sanding down the ridges work? Got this season 2017 Cartels and chewed my boot after just the first day riding.


Yeah sanding or even better.... duct tape.
You could also use shoe goo on the bindings to keep it smooth but grippy.

Or use boots with a plastic backstay. All my boots have had that, so it's neer happened with any bindings


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## reneftw

Too late to change my boots now. 
Won't the duct tape come off very often? I was thinking of some teflon tape or that tape tennis players use for their rackets. 
But I think sanding should work better. I am curious if someone here actually did this.


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## bksdds

F1EA said:


> Yeah sanding or even better.... duct tape.
> You could also use shoe goo on the bindings to keep it smooth but grippy.
> 
> Or use boots with a plastic backstay. All my boots have had that, so it's neer happened with any bindings


Actually a better product that will add grip while protecting his boot would be freesole suggested by Wrathful in his boot thread. He can even put some on the effected area of his boot as well as the spot on the binding.


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## F1EA

bksdds said:


> Actually a better product that will add grip while protecting his boot would be freesole suggested by Wrathful in his boot thread. He can even put some on the effected area of his boot as well as the spot on the binding.


Yep freesole works.

And duct tape wont come off so easily. You have to put it on in the dry though. Must be bone dry and it's going to last a while. It's going to look cheaper and less of a real solution than freesole or Shoegoo... so defintely, freesole or shoeegoo would be the best.


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## jae

what I did was get a one sided razor blade and bent it in half so it curves and use it to cut the protruding backstays out, then I got 300grit sandpaper and sanded it down. seemed to work, had a half day on my cartels.. didn't seem to damage the boots, but idk the long term effects. 

I'd get some highback foam and marine epoxy? would that work? I assume it would... and just straight glue over the backstays.


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## basser

wait so is this the bindings fault or the boots? When you are buying an expensive high quality binding, you shouldn't have to do dyi and stuff.


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## F1EA

basser said:


> wait so is this the bindings fault or the boots? When you are buying an expensive high quality binding, you shouldn't have to do dyi and stuff.


I say it's the boots. 
Good quality badass boots would not get chewed up by some little ridges in a plastic binding. Cartels are not even an expensive binding... My old TM2 would wear out the bindings. I had Missions (which probably had the same ridges) and no wear at all. The same TM2 wore out a bit of the foam and shiny look in Now Drives, etc. but this is mostly cosmetic so who cares. 

It can also be that the boots are just rubbing funny. Some kind of weird fit where the boot moves inside the binding... which you shouldn't have anyways. But rather than worrying who or why it's going on.... a simple DIY solves it and you can move on with no real issues. If your boots move in the bindings, I'd definitely look into that first and try to solve it.

To give an example, I have Smith goggles which have this little clip in the back. I hated it as it could unclip and I'd lose the goggles, and unclipping it was annoying under the plastic helmet holder thing..... plus I dont fidget with my goggles anyways...... so I put duct tape on it to shut that clip. That was like 3 yrs ago and that same piece of duct tape is still there after rain, snow, sun and slams....


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## basser

F1EA said:


> I say it's the boots.
> Good quality badass boots would not get chewed up by some little ridges in a plastic binding. Cartels are not even an expensive binding... My old TM2 would wear out the bindings. I had Missions (which probably had the same ridges) and no wear at all. The same TM2 wore out a bit of the foam and shiny look in Now Drives, etc. but this is mostly cosmetic so who cares.
> 
> It can also be that the boots are just rubbing funny. Some kind of weird fit where the boot moves inside the binding... which you shouldn't have anyways. But rather than worrying who or why it's going on.... a simple DIY solves it and you can move on with no real issues. If your boots move in the bindings, I'd definitely look into that first and try to solve it.
> 
> To give an example, I have Smith goggles which have this little clip in the back. I hated it as it could unclip and I'd lose the goggles, and unclipping it was annoying under the plastic helmet holder thing..... plus I dont fidget with my goggles anyways...... so I put duct tape on it to shut that clip. That was like 3 yrs ago and that same piece of duct tape is still there after rain, snow, sun and slams....


Fair enough, I was just trying to point out that if you are purchasing good quality gear, you shouldn't need to worry about modifying it. However, I completely agree with you, if there is a little improvement you can make then of course do it.


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## jae

idk man, those ridges on the cartels are damn abrasive. I know rulers aren't the top end, but they're firm middle, both the back of my boots got blasted, and I like my bindings tight. yellow crap (the color of the back of my boot) were stuck in my bindings, and still are, even after sanding them down.


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## Phedder

They've made some miniscule wear marks on my Insanos so I've duct taped over the ridges. I replace it perhaps every 15 days riding? Lasts just fine. Oddly enough it's only my '15 EST Cartels which are an issue, I have a '14 reflex pair that has the ridges but they're nowhere near as big and have never caused any wear.


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## reneftw

@F1EA: Missions do not have the ridges we are talking about. 
I'm riding K2 Maysis+, that's not what I would call a cheap boot.
@jae: so sanding them down does not work. I'll try some shoe goo then.


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## MMSlasher

Where abouts on the binding is this piece that keeps rubbing? Is it for both feet or just your back foot?


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## reneftw

MMSlasher said:


> Where abouts on the binding is this piece that keeps rubbing? Is it for both feet or just your back foot?


On the highbacks, both of them, just above the heel.


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## MMSlasher

reneftw said:


> On the highbacks, both of them, just above the heel.


Thanks! That is what I thought, but I was looking at some online and the ridges weren't shown in any of the four pictures.


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## reneftw

bksdds said:


> Actually a better product that will add grip while protecting his boot would be freesole suggested by Wrathful in his boot thread. He can even put some on the effected area of his boot as well as the spot on the binding.


Can you please point me to the thread you are talking about? I'm alternating between shoe goo and freesole, besides sanding the ridges.


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## MMSlasher

Why don't you just cut a piece of duct tape the exact size and put it directly over those ridges? I think I read some people wanted duct tape on the boot, but if it's on the Cartels themselves, no one will really ever notice.


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## glaucon

I can't believe they're still making the bindings like this.

I haven't been very active in the forum but just got an alert that this thread was resurrected...

When I had my problem with it a couple years ago it was the Cartels with DriverX boots. I called Burton and sent both boots and bindings in to them. They were and are fully aware of the issue. My interactions with them are a long story that I won't get into, but the bottom line is that they sent me a new pair of boots and filed down the ridges on the bindings.

So, my point here is that I see people talking about "sanding" the ridges. That sounds like a lot of work and not very effective. Filing is better and easier, and it works fine once the ridges are flattened out. I'm still using that particular binding and boot pair without issues.


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## jae

reneftw said:


> @F1EA: Missions do not have the ridges we are talking about.
> I'm riding K2 Maysis+, that's not what I would call a cheap boot.
> @jae: so sanding them down does not work. I'll try some shoe goo then.


they do work. the yellow stuff is from before I sanded, and after sanding it didn't come out.


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## jae

glaucon said:


> So, my point here is that I see people talking about "sanding" the ridges. That sounds like a lot of work and not very effective. Filing is better and easier, and it works fine once the ridges are flattened out. I'm still using that particular binding and boot pair without issues.


I tried sanding first, filing next, found it better to use a box cutter, then used a curved razor. sand to finish. if I went straight to using a curved razor, I would have saved a lot of time.


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## F1EA

reneftw said:


> @F1EA: Missions do not have the ridges we are talking about.
> I'm riding K2 Maysis+, that's not what I would call a cheap boot.
> @jae: so sanding them down does not work. I'll try some shoe goo then.


ok I get it. Maysis+ are really expensive. But what i mean is not that the boots are good or not. Just that the boots get worn there or not. Like I said, with TM2, Focus Boa or Prime that would not happen at all because they have hard plastic or rubber back there. I think K2 T1 has hard rubber as well. Plus Cartel are probably THE most popular binding in the world and it happens only ever so often; so it must be a sort of boot/fit combination that makes it happen.

Again, not saying it doesnt happen or that you have no issue. You do. But i'm pretty certain with minimal effort you can solve it and enjoy your life.


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## reneftw

F1EA said:


> Again, not saying it doesnt happen or that you have no issue. You do. But i'm pretty certain with minimal effort you can solve it and enjoy your life.


I don't mind a little DIY. The thing is, I'll change the boots under warranty and I wanted to know what to do so this doesn't happen again. I guess freesole (or shoe goo) is the best option available. Next comes duct tape and sanding. I think that I will sand the ridges down and then apply freesole on them, just to be on the safe side. If anyone sees a better choice, please tell me.


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## F1EA

reneftw said:


> I don't mind a little DIY. The thing is, I'll change the boots under warranty and I wanted to know what to do so this doesn't happen again. I guess freesole (or shoe goo) is the best option available. Next comes duct tape and sanding. I think that I will sand the ridges down and then apply freesole on them, just to be on the safe side. If anyone sees a better choice, please tell me.


Yep, you got it.
And definitely, if you get the same boots and same size, the same thing will happen again. So go ahead and file/shave/cover those ridges.


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## eelpout

Not Burton, but this is what 3 days on my new Now Pilot bindings did to my Ride Lasso's in December.









I think it's clear I'll need to get boots with rubber that goes higher up above the heel back if I want to keep using the Pilots (which I do ).


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## woodsmutt

*Burton Cartel Highback Ridge Scrape*

I've spent several hours researching this topic and I'm surprised that Burton is still putting these ridges in Cartel highbacks.
In winter 2013 Burton Product Manager and user BurtonBindings stated:


BurtonBindings said:


> We put those ridges in the highback to interlock with the ridges of our boots for better heel hold...So no ridges on Malavita, Genesis, Lexa or Escapade models due the hammock doing that work and better...we're looking into making the ridges less aggressive for the 2015 season... As far as [ribbed] backstays being on all Burton boot's, some may not have received them. But if it's not ALL, it's on ALL that you'll likely see.


Across several threads, there are various suggestions for workarounds, including filing down the ridges or using specific boots. But the boot suggestions are outdated. User super-rad noted that his 2012 Rulers went well with his 2012 Cartels. You can see why, as the boot's backstays have a commensurate ridges that interlock. But the 16/17 Ruler's do not have a backstay with this feature. Of this years' Burton lineup, only the Driver X has the ribbed backstay. 

I was completely unaware of this issue when I bought new 16/17 K2 Maysis this year to go with 15/16 Cartel purchased in the off season. In 5 days of riding, the Maysis heels have been severely chewed up. Because my family are long returning customers of Buckman's, a Pennsylvania retailer, and we spend lots of $ there, a senior manager was willing to process a refund and try to warranty them with K2. But truthfully, neither K2 nor Buckman's should be eating this cost. Burton should!


Why is Burton still doing this to the Cartel highback? Furthermore, if they're going to do it, they should be explicitly informing customers of the boot models that are intended to be used with the Cartel.

I really like the double BOA system of the Maysis. I could crank them into oblivion for an extremely tight fit. The Driver X is not a BOA boot. I can't even find the Driver X in stock in my size in all of Los Angeles to go try it on. Even the Burton Flagship store here doesn't have it in stock.

I don't want to DIA fix this. Expensive boots & bindings shouldn't require that. I'm hoping that by providing this writeup, I can direct Burton support to this thread to acknowledge the issue, send me free highback replacements without ridges, and update this binding in future years.


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## jwelsh83

woodsmutt said:


> I've spent several hours researching this topic and I'm surprised that Burton is still putting these ridges in Cartel highbacks.
> In winter 2013 Burton Product Manager and user BurtonBindings stated:
> 
> 
> BurtonBindings said:
> 
> 
> 
> We put those ridges in the highback to interlock with the ridges of our boots for better heel hold...So no ridges on Malavita, Genesis, Lexa or Escapade models due the hammock doing that work and better...we're looking into making the ridges less aggressive for the 2015 season... As far as [ribbed] backstays being on all Burton boot's, some may not have received them. But if it's not ALL, it's on ALL that you'll likely see.
> 
> 
> 
> Across several threads, there are various suggestions for workarounds, including filing down the ridges or using specific boots. But the boot suggestions are outdated. User super-rad noted that his 2012 Rulers went well with his 2012 Cartels. You can see why, as the boot's backstays have a commensurate ridges that interlock. But the 16/17 Ruler's do not have a backstay with this feature. Of this years' Burton lineup, only the Driver X has the ribbed backstay.
> 
> I was completely unaware of this issue when I bought new 16/17 K2 Maysis this year to go with 15/16 Cartel purchased in the off season. In 5 days of riding, the Maysis heels have been severely chewed up. Because my family are long returning customers of Buckman's, a Pennsylvania retailer, and we spend lots of $ there, a senior manager was willing to process a refund and try to warranty them with K2. But truthfully, neither K2 nor Buckman's should be eating this cost. Burton should!
> 
> 
> Why is Burton still doing this to the Cartel highback? Furthermore, if they're going to do it, they should be explicitly informing customers of the boot models that are intended to be used with the Cartel.
> 
> I really like the double BOA system of the Maysis. I could crank them into oblivion for an extremely tight fit. The Driver X is not a BOA boot. I can't even find the Driver X in stock in my size in all of Los Angeles to go try it on. Even the Burton Flagship store here doesn't have it in stock.
> 
> I don't want to DIA fix this. Expensive boots & bindings shouldn't require that. I'm hoping that by providing this writeup, I can direct Burton support to this thread to acknowledge the issue, send me free highback replacements without ridges, and update this binding in future years.
Click to expand...

I'm the OP, and this thread kind of died with my bindings as well as far as Burton bindings go. I've stuck with Flows and am pretty happy with them. It's funny, because this season I happened to be at the shop and saw this season's Cartels and happened to check the highback to see if they still had those goody ridges, sure enough...I agree, I don't see why they don't offer the hammock back for all their bindings unless they consider it a premier feature. Here, buy our lower end model that will most certainly chew up your boots...or...eliminate it by buying our boots with the backstay, which is what they were designed for...How many of us actually buy a same brand boot/binding combo??? I ride DC boots...so am I screwed??? Lol


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## SGboarder

woodsmutt said:


> I've spent several hours researching this topic and I'm surprised that Burton is still putting these ridges in Cartel highbacks.
> In winter 2013 Burton Product Manager and user BurtonBindings stated:
> Across several threads, there are various suggestions for workarounds, including filing down the ridges or using specific boots. But the boot suggestions are outdated. User super-rad noted that his 2012 Rulers went well with his 2012 Cartels. You can see why, as the boot's backstays have a commensurate ridges that interlock. But the 16/17 Ruler's do not have a backstay with this feature. Of this years' Burton lineup, only the Driver X has the ribbed backstay.
> 
> I was completely unaware of this issue when I bought new 16/17 K2 Maysis this year to go with 15/16 Cartel purchased in the off season. In 5 days of riding, the Maysis heels have been severely chewed up. Because my family are long returning customers of Buckman's, a Pennsylvania retailer, and we spend lots of $ there, a senior manager was willing to process a refund and try to warranty them with K2. But truthfully, neither K2 nor Buckman's should be eating this cost. Burton should!
> 
> 
> Why is Burton still doing this to the Cartel highback? Furthermore, if they're going to do it, they should be explicitly informing customers of the boot models that are intended to be used with the Cartel.
> 
> I really like the double BOA system of the Maysis. I could crank them into oblivion for an extremely tight fit. The Driver X is not a BOA boot. I can't even find the Driver X in stock in my size in all of Los Angeles to go try it on. Even the Burton Flagship store here doesn't have it in stock.
> 
> I don't want to DIA fix this. Expensive boots & bindings shouldn't require that. I'm hoping that by providing this writeup, I can direct Burton support to this thread to acknowledge the issue, send me free highback replacements without ridges, and update this binding in future years.


I'm sorry but htat picture is so obviously user error that no company should have to pay for it.


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## jwelsh83

SGboarder said:


> woodsmutt said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've spent several hours researching this topic and I'm surprised that Burton is still putting these ridges in Cartel highbacks.
> In winter 2013 Burton Product Manager and user BurtonBindings stated:
> Across several threads, there are various suggestions for workarounds, including filing down the ridges or using specific boots. But the boot suggestions are outdated. User super-rad noted that his 2012 Rulers went well with his 2012 Cartels. You can see why, as the boot's backstays have a commensurate ridges that interlock. But the 16/17 Ruler's do not have a backstay with this feature. Of this years' Burton lineup, only the Driver X has the ribbed backstay.
> 
> I was completely unaware of this issue when I bought new 16/17 K2 Maysis this year to go with 15/16 Cartel purchased in the off season. In 5 days of riding, the Maysis heels have been severely chewed up. Because my family are long returning customers of Buckman's, a Pennsylvania retailer, and we spend lots of $ there, a senior manager was willing to process a refund and try to warranty them with K2. But truthfully, neither K2 nor Buckman's should be eating this cost. Burton should!
> 
> 
> Why is Burton still doing this to the Cartel highback? Furthermore, if they're going to do it, they should be explicitly informing customers of the boot models that are intended to be used with the Cartel.
> 
> I really like the double BOA system of the Maysis. I could crank them into oblivion for an extremely tight fit. The Driver X is not a BOA boot. I can't even find the Driver X in stock in my size in all of Los Angeles to go try it on. Even the Burton Flagship store here doesn't have it in stock.
> 
> I don't want to DIA fix this. Expensive boots & bindings shouldn't require that. I'm hoping that by providing this writeup, I can direct Burton support to this thread to acknowledge the issue, send me free highback replacements without ridges, and update this binding in future years.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm sorry but htat picture is so obviously user error that no company should have to pay for it.
Click to expand...

Are you familiar with the Cartels or the ridges we're talking about on the base of the high backs? As the OP to this thread and with talking to others, this is a known issue to other riders that don't have boots with back stays that are used in conjunction with Burton's "ridges" on the Cartels. There's nothing user error based about putting your boot into a binding and strapping in...I challenge you to get your hands on a pair of the Cartels and see what we're talking about. Not all boots are created equal and to create a binding that works best with/only with a certain type of boot is complete nonsense.


----------



## SGboarder

jwelsh83 said:


> Are you familiar with the Cartels or the ridges we're talking about on the base of the high backs? As the OP to this thread and with talking to others, this is a known issue to other riders that don't have boots with back stays that are used in conjunction with Burton's "ridges" on the Cartels. There's nothing user error based about putting your boot into a binding and strapping in...I challenge you to get your hands on a pair of the Cartels and see what we're talking about. Not all boots are created equal and to create a binding that works best with/only with a certain type of boot is complete nonsense.


I was commenting on the specific photo posted by woodsmutt, not the general 'issue' (which I am well aware of and also have thoughts on, but that is a separate conversation).


----------



## glaucon

Your comment is equally inapt to woodsmutt's photo. That is exactly the kind of damage that is being caused by this binding defect. It's exactly what my boots looked like (at first, and then they got worse). No user error involved.

This is a very well known issue to Burton. You can see it in the beginning of this thread from the BurtonBindings user and I know from speaking with them directly. Anyone experiencing this should call them and demand recompense, and don't stop pushing until they make it right (they will fight back and might try to say they don't know anything about it, but that's a flat lie). As I mentioned years ago in this very thread, the resolution I got was filed-down bindings and new boots, which I'm fine with (and still use them). 

Side note - I use Driver X boots. Even though they have the plastic covering on the back, they are still vulnerable to this problem because there is a small patch of leather/vinyl/whatever below the plastic, and that's where the Cartel ridges hit the boot. So just because you see the plastic covering on the back of the boots doesn't necessarily mean you're in the clear.


----------



## madreefer

I had issues with burton cartels with nike zoom kaijus. When leaning forward my boots would rise at the heel. Probably the same thing is happening to you and thats why you see a tear in ur boots because of the friction. I changed the binding and still happened so i went with my old boots. Anyone has had this issue, boot lifting at the heel some like 2 centimeters when putting weight at the toes.


----------



## Dror Avrahami

Funny, got here by mistake but kept reading the whole thing as my 2016 Cartels just ate through my RIDE Lasso's 

Guess I got some sanding to do, wish I had read it before buying the Cartels, damn.

is sanding and freesole still the way to go?


----------



## stryk3z

Dror Avrahami said:


> Funny, got here by mistake but kept reading the whole thing as my 2016 Cartels just ate through my RIDE Lasso's
> 
> Guess I got some sanding to do, wish I had read it before buying the Cartels, damn.
> 
> is sanding and freesole still the way to go?


I had so many problems with burton bindings i say the way to go is just use another brand =P. Cartels chewed through my boots in 1 day (luckily store felt bad and let me return for full refund, and they were burton boots too...). So I tried malavita's....they were great except the hiback is mesh and the bottom of the mesh near the nail things stretches and eventually tears (i went thru 2 sets of hibacks last year). Aaaaaand I finally just quit and went to union this year, 0 problems its almost wierd


----------



## Dror Avrahami

stryk3z said:


> I had so many problems with burton bindings i say the way to go is just use another brand =P. Cartels chewed through my boots in 1 day (luckily store felt bad and let me return for full refund, and they were burton boots too...). So I tried malavita's....they were great except the hiback is mesh and the bottom of the mesh near the nail things stretches and eventually tears (i went thru 2 sets of hibacks last year). Aaaaaand I finally just quit and went to union this year, 0 problems its almost wierd


I cherry picked the Cartels after reading a lot of reviews. Funny enough none of those reviews ever mentioned the "Hunger" syndrome 
I'll try the sanding and if it doesn't work maybe I'll switch to Union, Thanks.


----------



## jae

just use a safety razor and bend it into a curved shape and cut them off. 2018 cartels took out the backstays finally.


----------



## F1EA

Dror Avrahami said:


> I cherry picked the Cartels after reading a lot of reviews. Funny enough none of those reviews ever mentioned the "Hunger" syndrome
> I'll try the sanding and if it doesn't work maybe I'll switch to Union, Thanks.


Because it doesn't happen to everyone. It doesn't even happen to most people.

The hunger syndrome :rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:


----------



## jae

F1EA said:


> Because it doesn't happen to everyone. It doesn't even happen to most people.
> 
> The hunger syndrome :rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:


it happens enough for burton to get rid of them on the newer cartels.


----------



## F1EA

jae said:


> it happens enough for burton to get rid of them on the newer cartels.


They also got rid of the rubber cap strap, the double take buckles, changed the hammock ankle strap, changed the baseplate components from previous years, etc.......


----------



## jae

F1EA said:


> They also got rid of the rubber cap strap, the double take buckles, changed the hammock ankle strap, changed the baseplate components from previous years, etc.......


why'd they take out the double take buckles? I liked them. tons of bitching on the rubber toe cap... they changed the hammock strap(for better or worse)?

there's a post on DMQ complaining of board denting due to burton bindings, specifically the corners with no padding. which I experienced on 1 out of 5 boards I currently own. my main bindings that I throw on most of my boards are the cartels.


----------



## stryk3z

jae said:


> why'd they take out the double take buckles? I liked them. tons of bitching on the rubber toe cap... they changed the hammock strap(for better or worse)?
> 
> there's a post on DMQ complaining of board denting due to burton bindings, specifically the corners with no padding. which I experienced on 1 out of 5 boards I currently own. my main bindings that I throw on most of my boards are the cartels.


Their ratchet/buckle system was smooth but you couldn't crank them down and combined with how soft the ankle strap rubber is, its just not comparable to other brand bindings. I'm taking a shot and guessing that's why but dunno. TBH i thought that was their signature thing so i'm kinda surprised they removing them too.


----------



## F1EA

jae said:


> why'd they take out the double take buckles? I liked them. tons of bitching on the rubber toe cap... they changed the hammock strap(for better or worse)?
> 
> there's a post on DMQ complaining of board denting due to burton bindings, specifically the corners with no padding. which I experienced on 1 out of 5 boards I currently own. my main bindings that I throw on most of my boards are the cartels.


No idea. Maybe they were tired of selling so many Cartels? 
The double take buckles are great... I would put that on everything.

Also never had an issue with board denting; or maybe I have, but never noticed..... 
I've had a few Burton bindings (most of them with the same baseplate as Cartels) and never had any issue with the boards denting. I take care of my gear and don't think my gear gets beat up, but when I see people selling stuff and rate it 8/10 due to minor scratches and so on..... I guess my stuff goes to 6/10 after like 3 days of use then


----------



## F1EA

stryk3z said:


> Their ratchet/buckle system was smooth but you couldn't crank them down and combined with how soft the ankle strap rubber is, its just not comparable to other brand bindings. I'm taking a shot and guessing that's why but dunno. TBH i thought that was their signature thing so i'm kinda surprised they removing them too.


I doubt it. 
It's still on their other bindings; they only removed it from the Cartel.


----------



## rpadc

jae said:


> just use a safety razor and bend it into a curved shape and cut them off. 2018 cartels took out the backstays finally.


I've had the problem of hungry teeth eating up boots as well.

Might very careful use of a Dremel tool also work for this mod?


----------



## stryk3z

F1EA said:


> I doubt it.
> It's still on their other bindings; they only removed it from the Cartel.


Well the cartels are supposed to be a stiffer binding and the double take+straps (toe especially) made it very not so stiff so I could imagine this as a solid reason. Anyways interesting they only did to the cartels...maybe they just had too many left over who knows


----------



## F1EA

stryk3z said:


> Well the cartels are supposed to be a stiffer binding and the double take+straps (toe especially) made it very not so stiff so I could imagine this as a solid reason. Anyways interesting they only did to the cartels...maybe they just had too many left over who knows


The double takes are/were on:
- Malavita
- Genesis
- Genesis X
- Diodes
- Xbase
- Hitchiker

All of them, except for the Malavita are supposed to be stiffer/more responsive/more high end than the Cartels.

The Xbase does not have the rubber toe cap; but they have the older toecap. All the others have the rubber toecap, including the Hitchiker, Diodes and GenX which are pretty responsive bindings. 


I think they took it away to keep the Cartel at a lower price point and not compete with their other more expensive bindings.


----------



## stryk3z

F1EA said:


> The double takes are/were on:
> 
> All of them, except for the Malavita are supposed to be stiffer/more responsive/more high end than the Cartels.


higher end cus of price point? nah. 50$ price difference cus they add double layer hiback and some other junk. Making a strap 1 sided vs 2 sided probably costs an extra 5 cents lmao. The genesis also has a little bit of give in the highback with the double layer but were still talking fractions in response points here. Anyways this is goin too far, I really don't care that much since I'll never buy another burton binding. The fact that there are so many problems with this many of their models is a total joke (est sliding/cracking etc. and their high end reflex models....)

Oh and if your still paying full price for burton stuff ur getting scammed. Last year their flag ship store in manhattan had 30% off current year stuff the entire season(not sure about this year didnt go). Theres also a outlet store in woodbury mall with permanent 30-50% off everything from previous year and its always stocked in terms of boards/bindings.


----------



## Phedder

At a conservative guess, I'd have 200+ days riding 3 models of Cartels. Never had anything break or slide. Tighten your damn screws properly and EST doesn't slide. When I had boots susceptible to that heel damage (which was very minor) I put a layer of duct tape over those ridges. Now my boots aren't affected by it at all as they have a burly layer of rubber there, so the duct tape is off. I hardly see that as a reason to boycott Burton Bindings. 

I'm a fan of the older Gettagrip Capstrap over the Supergrip Capstrap for sure, but I love double take ratchets and buckles too. I'm thinking of grabbing a pair of '18 EST Primed Cartels on sale, but literally the only difference from my '15 pair now is a Hammock strap rather than React strap (I've swapped hammocks on anyway) I understand not wanting to put all of your high end features on a mid range binding, but that means there's been barely any steps forward over 4 years. Not a bad thing as the '15 rides fantastically, just seems odd as Burton always champion their 'trickle down' technology. 

IMO best value Cartel would be the '16s, double take on ankle and gettagrip capstrap.


----------



## stryk3z

Phedder said:


> I put a layer of duct tape over those ridges.


That line speaks for itself. I own salomon holo, nitro team, union atlas/force, flux ds, flux tm and have sold several other brands and models in the past 3 years alone and none of them require u to duct tape ur boots after spending 300$ lol... U basically agreed it was a problem for u. And yea some of the newer freeride boots at the 400$+ price range have some rubber or solid material in the back, for everyone else (99% of users) are susceptible to this


----------



## Phedder

stryk3z said:


> That line speaks for itself. I own salomon holo, nitro team, union atlas/force, flux ds, flux tm and have sold several other brands and models in the past 3 years alone and none of them require u to duct tape ur boots after spending 300$ lol... U basically agreed it was a problem for u.


1 minute of my time and $0.05 worth of duct tape, I'd hardly call that a problem for me. 



stryk3z said:


> And yea some of the newer freeride boots at the 400$+ price range have some rubber or solid material in the back, for everyone else (99% of users) are susceptible to this


Funnily enough, the only boots I had a very minor issue with were the most expensive pair, Ride Insanos. I've owned Burton Rulers, Imperials and Ions, K2 T1s, Ride Insanos and Fuses. Zero issues with any of those, except for the Insanos...The most expensive boot.


----------



## stryk3z

Phedder said:


> 1 minute of my time and $0.05 worth of duct tape, I'd hardly call that a problem for me.
> 
> 
> 
> Funnily enough, the only boots I had a very minor issue with were the most expensive pair, Ride Insanos. I've owned Burton Rulers, Imperials and Ions, K2 T1s, Ride Insanos and Fuses. Zero issues with any of those, except for the Insanos...The most expensive boot.


So your calling them good bindings after you had 400$ boots eaten and had to duct tape lol...where is the positive side to this argument? I've also used rulers and lassos with cartels. Can confirm they get eaten in 1 day. Do yourself a favor and try other bindings. They're just better


----------



## Phedder

stryk3z said:


> So your calling them good bindings after you had 400$ boots eaten and had to duct tape lol...where is the positive side to this argument? I've also used rulers and lassos with cartels. Can confirm they get eaten in 1 day. Do yourself a favor and try other bindings. They're just better


You're putting words in my mouth, "boots eaten" not at all the case. After 10-15 days I noticed some wear, and figured out what it was, so I used the duct tape. Those boots got well over 100 days on them and have now been passed on to a friend. I duct taped the bindings, not the boots FWIW. There's no duct tape on them now either, it didn't wear through significantly at all. The Rulers I had were 2012 or 2013, they lasted just fine. 

I've also tried plenty of other bindings, I'm in a pretty lucky position to do so. I'll always come back to Cartels on my channel boards, and Now Pilots on my 4 hole boards. 

Each to their own, the point I'm trying to make is that Burton make a damn solid product, one that works better for me than many, many other manufacturers. Yes they're not perfect in that those ridges have caused damage to *some* boots. Simple problem, simple solution, and one they've now addressed.


----------



## F1EA

stryk3z said:


> higher end cus of price point? nah. 50$ price difference cus they add double layer hiback and some other junk. Making a strap 1 sided vs 2 sided probably costs an extra 5 cents lmao. The genesis also has a little bit of give in the highback with the double layer but were still talking fractions in response points here. Anyways this is goin too far, I really don't care that much since I'll never buy another burton binding. The fact that there are so many problems with this many of their models is a total joke (est sliding/cracking etc. and their high end reflex models....)
> 
> Oh and if your still paying full price for burton stuff ur getting scammed. Last year their flag ship store in manhattan had 30% off current year stuff the entire season(not sure about this year didnt go). Theres also a outlet store in woodbury mall with permanent 30-50% off everything from previous year and its always stocked in terms of boards/bindings.





stryk3z said:


> That line speaks for itself. I own salomon holo, nitro team, union atlas/force, flux ds, flux tm and have sold several other brands and models in the past 3 years alone and none of them require u to duct tape ur boots after spending 300$ lol... U basically agreed it was a problem for u. And yea some of the newer freeride boots at the 400$+ price range have some rubber or solid material in the back, for everyone else (99% of users) are susceptible to this





stryk3z said:


> So your calling them good bindings after you had 400$ boots eaten and had to duct tape lol...where is the positive side to this argument? I've also used rulers and lassos with cartels. Can confirm they get eaten in 1 day. Do yourself a favor and try other bindings. They're just better


:rofl2: mmmmmmkay.

Let me just quickly 'Unsubscribe from Thread' in case that's contagious.


----------



## jae

rpadc said:


> I've had the problem of hungry teeth eating up boots as well.
> 
> Might very careful use of a Dremel tool also work for this mod?


sure, a dremel would work better than a razor as it'll make it completely smooth. just trying to sand it down with paper manually takes forever.


----------



## stryk3z

F1EA said:


> :rofl2: mmmmmmkay.
> 
> Let me just quickly 'Unsubscribe from Thread' in case that's contagious.


funny theres so many of u backing burton bindings here and cant say anything good about them except they're fans. shit i hate them and i can still tell u what they offer that other brands don't. go out and try stuff before u talk


----------



## jae

stryk3z said:


> funny theres so many of u backing burton bindings here and cant say anything good about them except they're fans. shit i hate them and i can still tell u what they offer that other brands don't. go out and try stuff before u talk


don't see anyone backing burton bindings, I do see someone who thinks they're getting attacked when they're not.


----------



## Phedder

stryk3z said:


> funny theres so many of u backing burton bindings here and cant say anything good about them except they're fans. shit i hate them and i can still tell u what they offer that other brands don't. go out and try stuff before u talk


Okay;

I *love* the hinge. I haven't ridden anything I like anywhere near half as much for helping generate extra pop as well as extra leverage for butters. I liked Shadowfit, but not as much as the hinge. I ollie a lot. I notice the difference for sure. 

The most comfortable straps in the industry, period. I have not ridden any Flux bindings, that may change my mind, but I doubt it. 

Incredibly smooth ratchets, and ladders that never strip. I've never had to replace a Burton ladder because it got chewed up, and as I mentioned earlier I've put some miles on them for sure. 

Fully padded footbeds. Having nothing but foam underfoot in an EST binding is a feeling I really like. My other favourite binding brand, Now, also have a lot of padding. I understand this is 100% personal preference but I like the cushioning, keeps me on the hill longer, and riding out more flat landings. Flow do this very well too, and it's also why I've been hesitant to ever buy Flux bindings. Would love to demo some though. 

Adjustability. Super quick and simple to extend or shorten straps, alter forward lean, or adjust the highback angle. Interchangability too. Super easy to frankenbinding any burton pieces you'd like together. 

Warranty and customer service. I've had parts replaced, for free, on bindings that were 7 years old and I purchased second hand. I broke the highback on a Burton CO2 from 2010, emailed them with pictures and an explanation, was fully up front I brought them second hand, and they sent me out 2 older mission highbacks as replacement free of charge. 

For Cartels specifically, I like that I can put them on literally any board and feel comfortable with them. I've ridden Cartels on a 164W Custom X, to a 156 Funslinger. I know there's stiffer boards out there, and softer boards out there, but that's a pretty damn large span of both stiffness and riding styles and they worked fantastically. 

I realise I'm probably just feeding the troll at this point, but fuck it, that meal's on the house.


----------



## taco tuesday

I've got several sets of Unions, and some Romes. I noticed my Burton Ions have some wear on the sides of the heels after 3 seasons. I think I'm going to throw out all my bindings and quit snowboarding. Maybe I'll pick up snow skating so that there is no chance of abrasion on my boots. Or better yet maybe I should switch to hard boots! Screw strap bindings! They hurt my boots!


----------



## robotfood99

Phedder said:


> For Cartels specifically, I like that I can put them on literally any board and feel comfortable with them. I've ridden Cartels on a 164W Custom X, to a 156 Funslinger. I know there's stiffer boards out there, and softer boards out there, but that's a pretty damn large span of both stiffness and riding styles and they worked fantastically.



^^This. There are many other great bindings but arguably Cartels still rule when it comes to versatility. Whatever combo of straps and caps, they all work damn well. I like mine with good ol’ React straps and Getagrip caps.


----------



## robotfood99

stryk3z said:


> So your calling them good bindings after you had 400$ boots eaten and had to duct tape lol...where is the positive side to this argument? I've also used rulers and lassos with cartels. Can confirm they get eaten in 1 day. Do yourself a favor and try other bindings. They're just better




Are you saying you kept trying different boots even after your cartels would chew them up in 1 day? Why?


----------



## stryk3z

Phedder said:


> Okay;
> 
> I *love* the hinge. I haven't ridden anything I like anywhere near half as much for helping generate extra pop as well as extra leverage for butters. I liked Shadowfit, but not as much as the hinge. I ollie a lot. I notice the difference for sure.
> 
> The most comfortable straps in the industry, period. I have not ridden any Flux bindings, that may change my mind, but I doubt it.
> 
> Incredibly smooth ratchets, and ladders that never strip. I've never had to replace a Burton ladder because it got chewed up, and as I mentioned earlier I've put some miles on them for sure.
> 
> Fully padded footbeds. Having nothing but foam underfoot in an EST binding is a feeling I really like. My other favourite binding brand, Now, also have a lot of padding. I understand this is 100% personal preference but I like the cushioning, keeps me on the hill longer, and riding out more flat landings. Flow do this very well too, and it's also why I've been hesitant to ever buy Flux bindings. Would love to demo some though.
> 
> Adjustability. Super quick and simple to extend or shorten straps, alter forward lean, or adjust the highback angle. Interchangability too. Super easy to frankenbinding any burton pieces you'd like together.
> 
> Warranty and customer service. I've had parts replaced, for free, on bindings that were 7 years old and I purchased second hand. I broke the highback on a Burton CO2 from 2010, emailed them with pictures and an explanation, was fully up front I brought them second hand, and they sent me out 2 older mission highbacks as replacement free of charge.
> 
> For Cartels specifically, I like that I can put them on literally any board and feel comfortable with them. I've ridden Cartels on a 164W Custom X, to a 156 Funslinger. I know there's stiffer boards out there, and softer boards out there, but that's a pretty damn large span of both stiffness and riding styles and they worked fantastically.
> 
> I realise I'm probably just feeding the troll at this point, but fuck it, that meal's on the house.


Using est bindings for a channel board is a legit reason. Conversion plates just wont feel the same and will eventually slide. For ankle straps flux is better, the fit is unbeatable but for both burton/flux neither have slidable heelcups so u have to mount forward if ur on the lower half of the size range. Union+Nitro the only 2 i can think of that have that and it is a really good luxory. 

Burton customer service- agree they are very good, no questions asked. I mean they don't ask for pics, proof of purchase or anything. But for more expensive parts like highbacks they did say that they're only allowed to warranty one at a time but I guess u can get a friend to call for the other side. I think most other brands have moved towards providing proof of purchase at a minimum but who wants to dig up CC records from months to year+ back.

Ankle strap position- Burton is the only brand i can think of that has the 3 position holes for ankle strap. The higher positions adds VERY noticeable increase in response, if you haven't tried that i highly suggest it. This is one thing that i do wish other brands would adopt. 

Footbed- yes there is alot of padding like the holograms depending if u like that. However riding steepn'deep these did pack ice really quickly though which was pretty annoying. Since the ankle strap is so soft it's pretty easy to lift side of your boot from leaning and snow gets under and packs. Other side of the arguement here is tweakability is pretty easy cus of that. Depends on ur preference, i just find it more tiring than others in pow/steeps. 

flux-yes they have super minimal padding. The DS has some but the TM is just plastic. I mean this is probably the only binding i can think of where ur actually just strapping on top of a hard/smooth plastic footbed, and underneath there's also nothing. Not necessarily bad cus if ur looking for board feel the only thing higher than this would be to screw ur boots directly onto the board. I think probably need a damp/stiff board for the TM's cus i feel like my feet would go numb after a couple days on the huck knife with these. Have not tested on my other boards.

nitro teams- most ollie power out of any binding i've tried, although i really think this comes down to how each person's technique/style and getting used to the binding or whatever but for me there was no comparison with these. I just can't imagine anything other than the board actually making u ollie higher

NOW- u can crank the shit out of these ratchet/straps really easily


----------



## stryk3z

robotfood99 said:


> Are you saying you kept trying different boots even after your cartels would chew them up in 1 day? Why?


Cus they were replaced for free and on the 2nd one i realized its really a binding problem and those were replaced for free also. Are you saying it wasn't a problem? Cus after 10 pages here obviously it is and yea I don't see anything you say here as a positive reason to use them except that ur a fan of burton gratz


----------



## robotfood99

stryk3z said:


> Are you saying it wasn't a problem? Cus after 10 pages here obviously it is and yea I don't see anything you say here as a positive reason to use them except that ur a fan of burton gratz


 
Said nothing about it being a problem or not. I did bring up your questionable intellect of chewing up multiple boots to the same problem and then bragging about it. Smart. 

Yes I am a fan. I like their products, among other brands, too. So what. You are not a fan. Woohooo. Too cool.


----------



## stryk3z

robotfood99 said:


> your questionable intellect


yea i'm wondering


----------



## SGboarder

Phedder said:


> Each to their own, the point I'm trying to make is that Burton make a damn solid product, one that works better for me than many, many other manufacturers. Yes they're not perfect in that those ridges have caused damage to *some* boots. Simple problem, simple solution, and one they've now addressed.


^ that's it in a nutshell. I've had Burton, Union, Flux and Salomon bindings.
Get new bindings occasionally (buy to replace pairs that I have sold together with boards, get demos/samples, etc.) with o particular preference based on brand - but turns out all my bindings (except on my spolitboards) are now Burton. Genesis and Vitas right now but also had Cartels/Diodes/Missions at various points. Their stuff just works for me with near zero issues and performs great. Nothing more I could ask for.



stryk3z said:


> funny theres so many of u backing burton bindings here and cant say anything good about them except they're fans. shit i hate them and i can still tell u what they offer that other brands don't. go out and try stuff before u talk


Haters gonna hate...


----------



## shredderrr

there's a reason almost all the bindings in men's olympic snowboarding were burtons this year. even riders who had sponsorships from other brands and had to tape out the Burton model. Burton makes some of the best ratchets out there. I've tried them all in store and unions feel like crap by comparison.


----------



## bazman

I own cartels from 2017 and had serious problems with the front buckles and ratchets (double takes). They would clog up with snow and prevent me being able to tighten them. would sometimes come loose. The caps are also a weird shape that fit no boots

Burton support are always good though, and swapped them for regular mission caps, straps and buckles. No problems since then.

They include double takes on so many of their binding models but I wouldn't buy another binding that has them unless they redesign the buckle completely


----------



## chomps1211

Phedder said:


> 1 minute of my time and $0.05 worth of duct tape, I'd hardly call that a problem for me....


Gotta agree with that. I just noticed a little chewing type damage on the R heel my 32 Binary Boas the other day. Ive had these boots for a season & a half now and all my boards have pre 2015 Cartel bindings. 

This damage is Not severe as of yet. (...and strangely enough, nothing noticable on the L boots heel.)
And In the spirit of full disclosure, I just started riding a board with some new 2017 Katanas. So I cannot confirm that this damage is for certain caused by the Cartels. I've ridden these boots & Cartels far more often than the Katanas so I would have thought if they were the problem that I'd have seen this sooner. But who knows. :dunno: Im aware of it now & will keep an eye on it. 

Either way,... I'll put some duct/gorilla tape over the ridges,... smear a thin layer of Shoe Goop type rubber over the existing boot damage and move on. 

Not trying to attack the OP with the AR attitude about chewed boots. If the damage affects the integrity or performance of the boots, you've got a legit complaint. 

If it's just the cosmetic & esthetics that has you upset,... well? :shrug: You might want to just lighten up just a little. Nunna this Shit weren't meant to stay Purty forever!!! :laugh:



bazman said:


> I own cartels from 2017 and had serious problems with the front buckles and ratchets (double takes). They would clog up with snow and prevent me being able to tighten them. would sometimes come loose. The caps are also a weird shape that fit no boots
> 
> Burton support are always good though, and swapped them for regular mission caps, straps and buckles. No problems since then.
> 
> They include double takes on so many of their binding models but I wouldn't buy another binding that has them unless they redesign the buckle completely


Just Switched a second pairs of Cartels to the Genesis ankle straps & DT buckles. In general,.. I really like them! I like the added response they seem to offer compared to the stretch & give of the stretchier padded AS. 

I have noticed that the buckles are sometimes a little difficult to get to _release!!_. But I Never had any trouble with them coming loose or in getting them to tighten. 

My 2¢! :shrug:


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## eelpout

Phedder said:


> You're putting words in my mouth, "boots eaten" not at all the case. After 10-15 days I noticed some wear, and figured out what it was, so I used the duct tape. Those boots got well over 100 days on them and have now been passed on to a friend. I duct taped the bindings, not the boots FWIW.
> 
> I've also tried plenty of other bindings, I'm in a pretty lucky position to do so. I'll always come back to Cartels on my channel boards, and Now Pilots on my 4 hole boards.


Yeah, I'm curious if Now has addressed this or not with their ridges. My 2 year old Pilots have chewed on Ride and K2's both, now I use black electrical tape on the boots. On this pic you can sort of see how the Maysis' Enduro outer shell fought back and rubbed out some of the Pilot's grooved structure.


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## jwelsh83

chomps1211 said:


> Phedder said:
> 
> 
> 
> 1 minute of my time and $0.05 worth of duct tape, I'd hardly call that a problem for me....
> 
> 
> 
> Gotta agree with that. I just noticed a little chewing type damage on the R heel my 32 Binary Boas the other day. Ive had these boots for a season & a half now and all my boards have pre 2015 Cartel bindings.
> 
> This damage is Not severe as of yet. (...and strangely enough, nothing noticable on the L boots heel.)
> And In the spirit of full disclosure, I just started riding a board with some new 2017 Katanas. So I cannot confirm that this damage is for certain caused by the Cartels. I've ridden these boots & Cartels far more often than the Katanas so I would have thought if they were the problem that I'd have seen this sooner. But who knows.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Im aware of it now & will keep an eye on it.
> 
> Either way,... I'll put some duct/gorilla tape over the ridges,... smear a thin layer of Shoe Goop type rubber over the existing boot damage and move on.
> 
> Not trying to attack the OP with the AR attitude about chewed boots. If the damage affects the integrity or performance of the boots, you've got a legit complaint.
> 
> If it's just the cosmetic & esthetics that has you upset,... well?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You might want to just lighten up just a little. Nunna this Shit weren't meant to stay Purty forever!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bazman said:
> 
> 
> 
> I own cartels from 2017 and had serious problems with the front buckles and ratchets (double takes). They would clog up with snow and prevent me being able to tighten them. would sometimes come loose. The caps are also a weird shape that fit no boots
> 
> Burton support are always good though, and swapped them for regular mission caps, straps and buckles. No problems since then.
> 
> They include double takes on so many of their binding models but I wouldn't buy another binding that has them unless they redesign the buckle completely
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Just Switched a second pairs of Cartels to the Genesis ankle straps & DT buckles. In general,.. I really like them! I like the added response they seem to offer compared to the stretch & give of the stretchier padded AS.
> 
> I have noticed that the buckles are sometimes a little difficult to get to _release!!_. But I Never had any trouble with them coming loose or in getting them to tighten.
> 
> My 2¢!
Click to expand...

I don’t feel attacked LOL. This is a 5 year old thread and I have long but moved on from Burton bindings. This was more of an informative thread for those that have cartels or care about the potential there involving cartels with boots with no backstay. Cheers!


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## woodhouse

Ive fallen victim.....
Wish I saw this thread before I paired my 2018 cartels with my new k2 maysis, called k2 and when I told them what happened they said "let me guess, burton bindings?"
I saw someone said in an earlier post that they removed the ridges in the 2018 model, that is not the case.

This is after only 3 days of riding:


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## JoeyOranges

I had the same problem a few months ago. Contacted Burton Rider Service and they let me swap out for a pair of Malavita highbacks (which I believe are stiffer). Worth a try if you still want to ride the Cartels.


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## benjinyc

Malavitas are less stiff than Cartels, but more comfortable


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## JoeyOranges

I think you're probably right for the overall binding (highback plus base plus straps), but based on hand-flexing the Malavita highback feels stiffer than the Cartel. To me, the lateral cutout on the Cartel highbacks make them feel softer torsionally. 

When riding, I didn't feel a difference between the two, however.


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## eelpout

woodhouse said:


> Ive fallen victim.....
> Wish I saw this thread before I paired my 2018 cartels with my new k2 maysis, called k2 and when I told them what happened they said "let me guess, burton bindings?"
> I saw someone said in an earlier post that they removed the ridges in the 2018 model, that is not the case.
> 
> This is after only 3 days of riding


heh, well at least K2 seems to know about it.  

(I wish Now would own up to their bindings issues, which are etched like Burton's. :|)

With all my new boots I put tape all over the heel area now. it's kind of ridiculous.


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## ridethecliche

JoeyOranges said:


> I had the same problem a few months ago. Contacted Burton Rider Service and they let me swap out for a pair of Malavita highbacks (which I believe are stiffer). Worth a try if you still want to ride the Cartels.


Did you have to pay for the swap? 

I have a set of cartels I'd like to do this with to avoid the issue mentioned.


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## JoeyOranges

ridethecliche said:


> Did you have to pay for the swap?
> 
> I have a set of cartels I'd like to do this with to avoid the issue mentioned.


No, though YMMV. I was also having some issues with a pair of Leather Ions so maybe they were more generous than usual. 

Couldn't hurt to give it a go though.


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## ridethecliche

JoeyOranges said:


> No, though YMMV. I was also having some issues with a pair of Leather Ions so maybe they were more generous than usual.
> 
> Couldn't hurt to give it a go though.


Wouldn't hurt even if it's discounted. Though the thraxis i just picked up are solid on the back precisely for this reason i'm guessing.


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