# How long do your pants last?



## SlvrDragon50 (Mar 25, 2017)

My Saga bibs have maybe 45 days on them, and the pants are starting to delam with a hole in the crotch as well. I sent them in for warranty, and they just returned them to me saying normal wear and tear. I don't really ride park, I've done a handful of boxes here and there but I would hardly call myself a park rat. The back of the pants seem to be okay which is where I'd expect the bulk of rubbing wear to be anyways. 

How long is your gear lasting? I find it insane that I'm expected to buy bibs every year.
















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## benjinyc (Feb 24, 2017)

Patagonia gear lasts forever, and if it doesn't they'll repair or replace it for free

the lining in my goretex pants (5 years old) was delaminating so they just gave me full store credit

customer for life

Burton AK has lifetime warranty too, have yet to test it as all my AK gear has held up superbly


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## Argo (Feb 25, 2010)

Buy better gear, get better results. 

Saga is trash.


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## chomps1211 (Mar 30, 2011)

Argo said:


> Buy better gear, get better results.
> 
> Saga is trash.



^this^
I buy on sale, but I do try to buy slightly higher end stuff. I'm getting years out of my Burton sb pants. No problems with wear or wet out. :shrug:

...But then I don't sit down to strap in either, so no butt wear. 
:lol:



(...my big problem is getting to fat for last season's gear!) :facepalm3:


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## Phedder (Sep 13, 2014)

I replaced my Volcom L-Goretex pants around this time last year, not because I needed to, but because I found their Guide pants ridiculously cheap. Just sold them for $20 to a friend who's been riding with duct tape over a tear on his ass crack, only thing wrong with them is the top button is gone (wear a belt) and they were a little tattered around the ankle cuffs from being walked on. No other tears or seam issues, face fabric looked great and was still fully waterproof. They had done 3 seasons in NZ (working on the mountain, wearing them every day) and almost 2 full Canada seasons. I'd conservatively say 350 days worth of riding on them, plus all the wear and tear from working rentals, lifts, and occasional road clearing. 

Like the others said, good gear lasts, and that was their lowest end Gore-tex pant. The guide ones are an even burlier face fabric, baring some kind of catastrophic failure or crash I'd expect them to last many season more.


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

benjinyc said:


> Patagonia gear lasts forever, and if it doesn't they'll repair or replace it for free
> 
> the lining in my goretex pants (5 years old) was delaminating so they just gave me full store credit
> 
> customer for life


Good to know. (I've a three year old Patagonia pant; no issues so far).

Arcteryx repaced a 2yo pant which delaminated, too. But they didn't replace/repair a leaking zipper in a newly bought (last years model) hardly weared jacket. Later, another zipper leaked on another Arc item. Shouldn't happen with gear in that price segment... no customer anymore.


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## SlvrDragon50 (Mar 25, 2017)

Hmm okay. I thought Saga was decent since I saw tons of people wearing it, and the reviews were decent. However, it seems like no one is reviewing the durability, just the fit...

Burton AK stuff definitely looks good, but their 3L stuff is so pricey. I'll take a look at Volcom and some other ones. I definitely want bibs though. Any other companies I should look at or stay away from? Been happy with Dakine and heard decent things about Airblaster. Evo doesn't have much stock left it seems.


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## SlvrDragon50 (Mar 25, 2017)

neni said:


> Good to know. (I've a three year old Patagonia pant; no issues so far).
> 
> Arcteryx repaced a 2yo pant which delaminated, too. But they didn't replace/repair a leaking zipper in a newly bought (last years model) hardly weared jacket. Later, another zipper leaked on another Arc item. Shouldn't happen with gear in that price segment... no customer anymore.


Oh wow, I'm surprised to hear that. I've always heard great things with Arcteryx. 

It looks like Patagonia isn't making bibs anymore? PowSlayer isn't really what I would consider a bib.


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## benjinyc (Feb 24, 2017)

SlvrDragon50 said:


> Burton AK stuff definitely looks good, but their 3L stuff is so pricey.


3L will always be $$$, it's expensive to manufacture - but it's also overkill if you're just using it for resort/parks. You'll only really need 3L if you're doing backcountry touring/camping where packing light is essential


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## SlvrDragon50 (Mar 25, 2017)

benjinyc said:


> 3L will always be $$$, it's expensive to manufacture - but it's also overkill if you're just using it for resort/parks. You'll only really need 3L if you're doing backcountry touring/camping where packing light is essential


Huh, really? I've always just gone for 3L since I thought it was more waterproof. I never really cared for weight.


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## Argo (Feb 25, 2010)

SlvrDragon50 said:


> Hmm okay. I thought Saga was decent since I saw tons of people wearing it, and the reviews were decent. However, it seems like no one is reviewing the durability, just the fit...
> 
> Burton AK stuff definitely looks good, but their 3L stuff is so pricey. I'll take a look at Volcom and some other ones. I definitely want bibs though. Any other companies I should look at or stay away from? Been happy with Dakine and heard decent things about Airblaster. Evo doesn't have much stock left it seems.


Volcom goretex, burton ak, trew, airblaster beast series, patagonia, tobe, 686.... they all make quality gear that will last. 

Find a sale and go to town. Saga and virtika have a following for their looks but the gear is not great, more of a lifestyle brand that does winter gear..


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## SlvrDragon50 (Mar 25, 2017)

Argo said:


> Volcom goretex, burton ak, trew, airblaster beast series, patagonia, tobe, 686.... they all make quality gear that will last.
> 
> Find a sale and go to town. Saga and virtika have a following for their looks but the gear is not great, more of a lifestyle brand that does winter gear..


Cool, thanks. I've heard 686 durabilty sometimes isn't good, but I guess I should revisit it. We get like a 60% discount through the school club.


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## Argo (Feb 25, 2010)

SlvrDragon50 said:


> Cool, thanks. I've heard 686 durabilty sometimes isn't good, but I guess I should revisit it. We get like a 60% discount through the school club.


that was more true 5 or 6 years ago. they have been pretty good over the past couple of years. they are on the lower side of my list though. My son and I ride 100+ days a year usually, he is more like 180-220 days. We went through a lot of gear to find the better durability, 686 held up fine. the first 5 on my list are probably the best so far and all come with warranty to back it up. My Patagonia jacket has probably 4-500 days on it. I just have one zipper that doesn't work but don't want to swap it out yet. 

I also have a spyder bib that is burly as hell, has about 200 days on it. HAve a volcom bib that is in good shape with 300 days, it is like 7 years old now. Trew bib has probably 200 days, they replaced it for a blown out crotch seam at 50 days. The airblaster bib is fairly new and in good shape after about 40 days, almost looks new still. We have a burton AK 3L jacked with like 400 days on it that is still solid AF, my son rides it pretty much every day.


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

SlvrDragon50 said:


> PowSlayer isn't really what I would consider a bib.


For me, it's perfect . High enough to protect from snow in case of pow tomahawk, low enough to not cause heat/moisture binding.


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## benjinyc (Feb 24, 2017)

SlvrDragon50 said:


> Huh, really? I've always just gone for 3L since I thought it was more waterproof. I never really cared for weight.


3L isn't more waterproof than 2L, the outer fabrics are generally the same...the difference is that a 2L usually has a mesh inside liner and a 3L has a bonded one.

since the 3L doesn't have that extra mesh liner, it'll be slightly more breathable and a lot lighter and easier to pack when you're hiking. on the flip side, 2L will usually be more comfortable to wear and make less crinkly noises when you're moving

what makes them (and any other fabric) waterproof is the DWR treatment, which eventually wears off even on Gore-Tex fabrics that you'll have to re-treat with some sort of conditioner/spray


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## drblast (Feb 28, 2017)

Don't know. 

I'm a slave to fashion so durability isn't an issue. I *look* gorgeous though, and that's what matters.


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## SlvrDragon50 (Mar 25, 2017)

Argo said:


> that was more true 5 or 6 years ago. they have been pretty good over the past couple of years. they are on the lower side of my list though. My son and I ride 100+ days a year usually, he is more like 180-220 days. We went through a lot of gear to find the better durability, 686 held up fine. the first 5 on my list are probably the best so far and all come with warranty to back it up. My Patagonia jacket has probably 4-500 days on it. I just have one zipper that doesn't work but don't want to swap it out yet.
> 
> I also have a spyder bib that is burly as hell, has about 200 days on it. HAve a volcom bib that is in good shape with 300 days, it is like 7 years old now. Trew bib has probably 200 days, they replaced it for a blown out crotch seam at 50 days. The airblaster bib is fairly new and in good shape after about 40 days, almost looks new still. We have a burton AK 3L jacked with like 400 days on it that is still solid AF, my son rides it pretty much every day.


Sweet, awesome reviews. The Airblaster is pretty cheap right now at $225 from Backcountry, but the Volcom isn't much more. I heard there's a pretty big difference between Burton and Burton AK so probably won't be able to afford the Burton stuff.



neni said:


> For me, it's perfect . High enough to protect from snow in case of pow tomahawk, low enough to not cause heat/moisture binding.


I somehow always manage to get snow very high up my jacket :laugh2:


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## benjinyc (Feb 24, 2017)

SlvrDragon50 said:


> Sweet, awesome reviews. The Airblaster is pretty cheap right now at $225 from Backcountry, but the Volcom isn't much more. I heard there's a pretty big difference between Burton and Burton AK so probably won't be able to afford the Burton stuff.
> 
> 
> I somehow always manage to get snow very high up my jacket :laugh2:


your jacket doesn't have a powder skirt?


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## SlvrDragon50 (Mar 25, 2017)

benjinyc said:


> your jacket doesn't have a powder skirt?


Nahhhh. I didn't know I was going to get into snowboarding so I bought an Arcteryx jacket for daily wear and just wear it to the mountain.


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## Argo (Feb 25, 2010)

benjinyc said:


> 3L isn't more waterproof than 2L, the outer fabrics are generally the same...the difference is that a 2L usually has a mesh inside liner and a 3L has a bonded one.
> 
> since the 3L doesn't have that extra mesh liner, it'll be slightly more breathable and a lot lighter and easier to pack when you're hiking. on the flip side, 2L will usually be more comfortable to wear and make less crinkly noises when you're moving
> 
> what makes them (and any other fabric) waterproof is the DWR treatment, which eventually wears off even on Gore-Tex fabrics that you'll have to re-treat with some sort of conditioner/spray


Here is a good article on the differences. 

https://blisterreview.com/features/outerwear-101/5

I have found the 3L to give more durability than the 2L. We have destroyed 2L jackets with minor hits. The 3L jackets are solid still....


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## Oldman (Mar 7, 2012)

I hate to say how old they are, but I have a pair of Flylow Magnum BC pants and a pair of Flylow Bibs and they have both been totally bomb proof. I can't speak of their current quality, but I know that I am not in any hurry to replace either of these items. I have 5 plus years on both items.

Both of these items have performed well beyond my expectations. Flylow FTW!


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## Argo (Feb 25, 2010)

I have heard good feedback on flylow. I have never used it though....


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## taco tuesday (Jul 26, 2014)

I bought a pair of their Monarch bibs on sale for 100 bucks a couple of years ago. Not sure how many days I have on them because I also have a pair of Ride pants that are insulated. I typically wear the saga bibs on pow days or if it's raining. No problems so far with durability but I slammed the shoulder strap buckle in the car door this weekend and broke it(I was not wearing them at the time).


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## SlvrDragon50 (Mar 25, 2017)

Hmm, looks like Volcom and Airblaster's top of the line bibs are both 2L. Airblaster used to make a 3L bib but not anymore?

I think the Volcom Rain Bib, Airblaster Beast, and Dakine Stoker 3L are at the top of my list right now. Just waiting to see what bibs people have on snowboard trader.

I wish they had some better colors, but I guess that's what you get for buying bibs this late


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## chomps1211 (Mar 30, 2011)

Argo said:


> ....*I also have a spyder bib that is burly as hell, has about 200 days on it.* HAve a volcom bib that is in good shape with 300 days, it is like 7 years old now. Trew bib has probably 200 days, they replaced it for a blown out crotch seam at 50 days. The airblaster bib is fairly new and in good shape after about 40 days, almost looks new still. We have a burton AK 3L jacked with like 400 days on it that is still solid AF, my son rides it pretty much every day.


In what size and Howz the fit on the Spyder bib? 

You're a large(ish)  dude as well and Most bibs I've looked at don't seem to come in sizes that will accommodate my,.... girth? :shrug:

I already own a Descente ski jacket so I'm not a SB style snob.  lol. If it fits good & I like the look, don't care if its for skiing, snowmoboling or ice fishing,... if it's quality cold gear and comes in a 2-3XL? I'll wear it. :shrug:

I'll _have to! _ 

Unless Im willing to ride nekkid! :blink: And _*nobody*_ wants that!!!  >


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## Argo (Feb 25, 2010)

I have the 2xl. They used to have 3xl also, dont think they do any more though. Its the "coaches bib". It fits very comfortably. Even loose.


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## snowman55 (Feb 17, 2012)

Another Spyder fan here. I've been wearing their pants since my skiing days and they hold up very well. I also have Burton and Oakley Gortex pants and Spyder pants have been the best out of of the 3 brands.


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## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

I have some Trew pants that are going on like 6 seasons. Sometimes you can find some reasonable deals at 

https://www.levelninesports.com/


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## deagol (Mar 26, 2014)

SlvrDragon50 said:


> Cool, thanks. I've heard 686 durabilty sometimes isn't good, but I guess I should revisit it. We get like a 60% discount through the school club.


I have 686 pants and I really like them, although they are finally nearing the end of their useful lifespan. I have ridden 3-4 seasons in the I think. 

I will try to replace them with the same model.


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## alx9898 (Jan 13, 2018)

Bought a pair of Narrona Tamok Dri2 Pants last off season on sale from Backcountry. About ~50 days in and the crotch is blowing out and the gaiter zipper broke on one leg. Bummed because the fit was good, material was excellent (extremely waterproof and breathable), and loved all the pockets. They have a five year warranty, but unfortunately, backcountry isn't carrying it anymore and they are based in the UK. Backcountry is standing behind it and letting me send them in at the end of the season for a refund, which is pretty cool of them. 


Going with Burton AK this time.


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## Crusty (Nov 8, 2018)

chomps1211 said:


> snowmoboling... ice fishing


In that when you set up 10 tip-ups in a triangle and see how many you can run over? :wink:


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## speedjason (May 2, 2013)

Burtons usually last me about 100 days before starting to have water proof issues.
That is assuming I don't hit part or go into the trees get snagged on a branch.
Also the type of fabric can vary durability as well. I find Twill weave is much durable than Plain weave.


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## SlvrDragon50 (Mar 25, 2017)

Argo said:


> that was more true 5 or 6 years ago. they have been pretty good over the past couple of years. they are on the lower side of my list though. My son and I ride 100+ days a year usually, he is more like 180-220 days. We went through a lot of gear to find the better durability, 686 held up fine. the first 5 on my list are probably the best so far and all come with warranty to back it up. My Patagonia jacket has probably 4-500 days on it. I just have one zipper that doesn't work but don't want to swap it out yet.
> 
> I also have a spyder bib that is burly as hell, has about 200 days on it. HAve a volcom bib that is in good shape with 300 days, it is like 7 years old now. Trew bib has probably 200 days, they replaced it for a blown out crotch seam at 50 days. The airblaster bib is fairly new and in good shape after about 40 days, almost looks new still. We have a burton AK 3L jacked with like 400 days on it that is still solid AF, my son rides it pretty much every day.


Hey Argo,

I was looking at some older posts, and I saw in 2018 you said the newer Volcom stuff didn't seem to be as durable as the older goods. Do you still feel that way?


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## SnowDragon (Apr 23, 2012)

wrathfuldeity said:


> I have some Trew pants that are going on like 6 seasons. Sometimes you can find some reasonable deals at
> 
> https://www.levelninesports.com/


Trew has a sale of 25% off right now (or at least they did within the past week).
I prefer Trew over my Burton AK, Arc'teryx, and Westbeach outerwear.
(I wear bibs btw.)


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## Argo (Feb 25, 2010)

SlvrDragon50 said:


> Hey Argo,
> 
> I was looking at some older posts, and I saw in 2018 you said the newer Volcom stuff didn't seem to be as durable as the older goods. Do you still feel that way?


I have not purchased anything since their 2017 line of gear. It was thinner and more fragile in 2016-17 than it was before that. Their 3L is definitely stronger and also more durable than their 2L. 

trew's trewth bib is great......


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## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

SnowDragon said:


> Trew has a sale of 25% off right now (or at least they did within the past week).
> I prefer Trew over my Burton AK, Arc'teryx, and Westbeach outerwear.
> (I wear bibs btw.)


yup...ditto, wore my arcteryx 1 time in the past 2 years on a sunny spring soft day 2 weeks ago, they were fine but they are not set up for heavy weather like trew. Last week washed my trew and re did the dwr...on Monday it was puking and some rain...dry as a bone...even on my arse sitting on snow covered chairs. :smile:


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## chomps1211 (Mar 30, 2011)

Crusty said:


> In that when you set up 10 tip-ups in a triangle and see how many you can run over? :wink:


:lol:

So much for spell check!! :laugh:


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## SlvrDragon50 (Mar 25, 2017)

Cool, I'll keep an eye out on Trew sales. I think I do want a 3L just for the durability, I forgot about that aspect vs 2L which is why I bought my Arcteryx jacket.

If the Trew is better than Arcteryx, I'm very interested!

Strafe has been intriguing me as well though since I'm in the $300 price range. I heard great things about thier one piece suit.


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## SlvrDragon50 (Mar 25, 2017)

Just got the Trewth Bib for $300 after pricematching Evo against Trew w/ the 25% coupon. Unfortunately Evo is collecting tax in Illinois now  I'll probably still try to patch the Saga bibs for when I decide to go through the park more frequently.


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## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

SlvrDragon50 said:


> Just got the Trewth Bib for $300 after pricematching Evo against Trew w/ the 25% coupon. Unfortunately Evo is collecting tax in Illinois now  I'll probably still try to patch the Saga bibs for when I decide to go through the park more frequently.


Oh nooo...just get them through Trew...they are in OR...there is no sales tax in OR.


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## SlvrDragon50 (Mar 25, 2017)

wrathfuldeity said:


> Oh nooo...just get them through Trew...they are in OR...there is no sales tax in OR.


Yea... in retrospect I should have canceled the order as soon as I heard there was tax. But online tax laws are so confusing nowadays. I figured Trew would have charged me tax too since there's no Evo in Illinois. Used to be that if they had no presence in your state, then there would be no sales tax.


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## Kijima (Mar 3, 2019)

I have always found 2 layer goretex to outlast 3 layer goretex by a big margin. 
Both garments have 3 layers of material, so there is nothing gained with 3 layer stuff except weight savings, and the price of weight savings is always durability. 
2 layer garments have a 3rd layer on the inside that is not bonded to the outer layer and the goretex layer, it is this lack of bonding that allows the 3rd layer to stay with your body whilst the rest of the garment is free to move around, providing untold protection to the actual goretex layer. 

I have lots of 3 layer stuff that I can see light through in high wear areas like under my backpack straps. The 2 layer stuff simply does not wear out the same way.

2 layer is for durability.
3 layer is for light weight.


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## snoway (Jan 25, 2017)

I have around 60 days over two seasons on my volcom articulated pants. They still look brand new. They don't have goretex and I have ridden with them in all sorts of conditions and they have done a great job. I haven't been wet through even in the rain.

Edit. I should also mention that I often go luging with the kids and often end up slipping off the luge and sliding on my ass.


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## SlvrDragon50 (Mar 25, 2017)

Kijima said:


> I have always found 2 layer goretex to outlast 3 layer goretex by a big margin.
> Both garments have 3 layers of material, so there is nothing gained with 3 layer stuff except weight savings, and the price of weight savings is always durability.
> 2 layer garments have a 3rd layer on the inside that is not bonded to the outer layer and the goretex layer, it is this lack of bonding that allows the 3rd layer to stay with your body whilst the rest of the garment is free to move around, providing untold protection to the actual goretex layer.
> 
> ...


Hmm, from what I've read, the 3L is noticeably more durable than the 2L stuff. Are you comparing 2L vs 3L in the same brands? Because durability is probably much more related to manufacturer qualities. My Saga pants are 3L but complete crap. My Arcteryx is 3L and takes the brunt of the abrasion with falling and has lasted 4-5 years.


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## Phedder (Sep 13, 2014)

Depends how you define durability as well. Seams and stitching is definitely a brand/quality thing. Abrasion and wear and tear comes down to the face fabric, which you can usually define quantitatively and the company should list in detail what they're using. 

For example an Arc'teryx Beta AR has N40r-X fabric for the main body, and N80p-X fabric on high wear areas like the shoulders and forearms. The N denotes Nylon, 40 and 80 is the denier of the fabric (higher number = thicker, more burly) the r stands for ripstop weave, and the p stands for plain weave. X is...because adding an X makes something sound cooler? Maybe Gore-tex? Honestly don't know :embarrased1:

But a lot of companies when listing the material used will follow some kind of system like that, it's unfortunate that it's not the easiest to decipher but the details about what you're purchasing are there if you go looking.


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## SlvrDragon50 (Mar 25, 2017)

Ah yeah, I forgot about that factor as well. 

I liked how the Trew bibs put sturdier 140 fabric below the knees with 80 elsewhere. Though honestly I would prefer to have higher wear fabric on my thighs and ass when I'm sliding [emoji23]

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## linvillegorge (Jul 6, 2009)

I get a long time out of my outerwear, but I also will wear stuff until there's damn near more tape holding it together than there is original material left too.


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## SlvrDragon50 (Mar 25, 2017)

linvillegorge said:


> I get a long time out of my outerwear, but I also will wear stuff until there's damn near more tape holding it together than there is original material left too.


What do you use to repair the pants? I saw there were these iron on goretex patches?

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## linvillegorge (Jul 6, 2009)

SlvrDragon50 said:


> What do you use to repair the pants? I saw there were these iron on goretex patches?
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


Honestly not sure of the brand, but it's just a clear tape meant for technical outerwear repair. It barely noticeable if you take a little care when putting it on and I've never had an issue with it coming off.


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## SlvrDragon50 (Mar 25, 2017)

linvillegorge said:


> Honestly not sure of the brand, but it's just a clear tape meant for technical outerwear repair. It barely noticeable if you take a little care when putting it on and I've never had an issue with it coming off.


https://www.gearaid.com/products/tenacious-tape-repair?variant=28044148753

This the stuff? I've seen people use it on slashes.


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## linvillegorge (Jul 6, 2009)

Yep, pretty sure that's the stuff.


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## 165586 (May 9, 2018)

Flylow Chemical pants.

https://flylowgear.com/products/chemical-pant#

IMHO there are no more durable snowsport pants on the market. Period!

And LOTS of online retailers have them on sale at the moment.


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## d3tro (Apr 4, 2018)

I've got a pair of black Ride pants. Bought 12 years ago, still use them. Still in great shape, still warm. Will use them until they can't but they are made so much well that I don't know when they will be up for the trash

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## HurtonBair (Feb 2, 2014)

I’ve had two seasons on Volcom L pants and Stretch jacket. Tears around the pockets on both pieces and on the ass of my pants. Volcom is trash. 

I’m going back to Patagonia. My last outfit from them lasted a decade.


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## MJP (Jan 7, 2013)

Used to wear the top of the line Volcom guide gear, but wore out way to quick and zippers were crap. Went Arc’teryx sidewinder jacket and Sabre pants and never looked back. Bullet proof, goretex, extremely light, and great for layering even though you barely need anything other than a base layer. If it’s really cold I’ll rock smartwool base layer then a Patagonia onesie underneath. Been in -17 F in Banff with it...


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## jsil (Oct 9, 2018)

benjinyc said:


> Patagonia gear lasts forever, and if it doesn't they'll repair or replace it for free
> 
> the lining in my goretex pants (5 years old) was delaminating so they just gave me full store credit
> 
> ...



I had the same experience with Patagonia. Even though their gear doesn't fit me as well as other companies (Arc'Teryx), they are my go to. 




neni said:


> Good to know. (I've a three year old Patagonia pant; no issues so far).
> 
> Arcteryx repaced a 2yo pant which delaminated, too. But they didn't replace/repair a leaking zipper in a newly bought (last years model) hardly weared jacket. Later, another zipper leaked on another Arc item. Shouldn't happen with gear in that price segment... no customer anymore.


I had a bad experience with Arc'teryx too on an Atom LT hoody. Even though I love their gear, I can't justify it (even at sale prices) when I have no doubts that Patagonia will replace or repair anything that happens (even if its my fault).


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