# Short fat powder boards



## neliconcept (Jan 17, 2016)

Hey guys,

Looking for a short fattie for next season, something that is light and agile with a swallow tail or similar. I have been looking at the Rome Powder Division ST and it looks good but wanted some other opinions. I have a Burton Branch Manager now in 159 but it isn't super agile in the trees as I thought it might be (probably me partly too not being the best quick turner yet) 

Thoughts?


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## redlude97 (Jan 9, 2008)

I've been loving my k2 cool bean, and my buddies who have purchased just about every short fat this season(see the quiver thread) are still holding onto the lib short fat and NS swift fwiw


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## phillyphan (Sep 22, 2016)

Check some of the older threads. There were tons from this season. In no specific order: 

Ride Warpig
Yes Optimistic (which is what I have)
Marhar Lumberjack

There are a lot out there.


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## linvillegorge (Jul 6, 2009)

Love my Lumberjack. Would like to try out the Warpig sometime, but went with the Lumberjack because I already have enough directional boards in my garage. Wanted something completely different.

Was hoping to hop on the NS Instagator yesterday at Loveland, but I was just having too much fun to come down the mountain to grab one at the demo tent.


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## snoeboarder (Sep 19, 2008)

Looking at boards in person sometimes doesn't match the online stoke of the picture alone. With that said, I was not blown away by the feel of the Rome board when I saw it in person. Seemed fragile and could use some more attention to detail.


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## txb0115 (Sep 20, 2015)

neliconcept said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> Looking for a short fattie for next season, something that is light and agile with a swallow tail or similar. I have been looking at the Rome Powder Division ST and it looks good but wanted some other opinions. I have a Burton Branch Manager now in 159 but it isn't super agile in the trees as I thought it might be (probably me partly too not being the best quick turner yet)
> 
> Thoughts?


Where do you live and what type of terrain do you ride?

I think short fat boards suck for the most part. I've been on many. For really flat terrain and low angle terrain they work quite well. Anything other than that and they suck, IMO. I would never ride one of those at Snowbird, even though the boards float well they don't handle steep terrain well and they suck for sending it, unless you happen to be 5"4' ( which you might be, lol ) At 6"1' 180lbs those short decks, no matter how wide, just can't compensate for the lack of forward/backward leverage someone of my height/weight will apply in steep terrain and the board wheelies all the time and you can't stick landings.

The problem with your Branch Manager is that even though the board has a lot of sidecut, it has very minimal taper, 8mm, if that deck had 25mm of taper and was a touch softer it would be more than likely the turning machine you are seeking. 

So if you live in the mid-west or back east a short board might work for you since your terrain will never be that steep, but if you're out west I would suggest finding another 159ish board with more taper, that's a bit softer. 

Here's a few decks that fit that bill..

United Shapes: Deep Reach 159

Prior: Khyber 160

Off Shore Snow Shapes: Snurfs Up 158

These decks are all ninja like in the trees, lot's of sidecut with even more taper....


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

txb0115 said:


> Where do you live and what type of terrain do you ride?
> 
> I think short fat boards suck for the most part. I've been on many. For really flat terrain and low angle terrain they work quite well. Anything other than that and they suck, IMO. I would never ride one of those at Snowbird, even though the boards float well they don't handle steep terrain well and they suck for sending it, unless you happen to be 5"4' ( which you might be, lol ) At 6"1' 180lbs those short decks, no matter how wide, just can't compensate for the lack of forward/backward leverage someone of my height/weight will apply in steep terrain and the board wheelies all the time and you can't stick landings.
> 
> ...


I am seriously looking into a Khyber split 160.

Undecided if getting the Carbon-Kevlar or regular.... as I dont really like very stiff boards, but I would like the reduced weight of the carbon-kevlar construction........

What I want is a Landlord 163 split, but seems like there's none left and the Khyber is pretty close to it. I have a LL 159 solid and it is a ninja at everything. 

I've tried a Branch Manager 159 and that board is super quick turning in trees and anywhere.


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## linvillegorge (Jul 6, 2009)

txb0115 said:


> Where do you live and what type of terrain do you ride?
> 
> I think short fat boards suck for the most part. I've been on many. For really flat terrain and low angle terrain they work quite well. Anything other than that and they suck, IMO. I would never ride one of those at Snowbird, even though the boards float well they don't handle steep terrain well and they suck for sending it, unless you happen to be 5"4' ( which you might be, lol ) At 6"1' 180lbs those short decks, no matter how wide, just can't compensate for the lack of forward/backward leverage someone of my height/weight will apply in steep terrain and the board wheelies all the time and you can't stick landings.
> 
> ...


If you stay centered over your board and don't ride/land in the back seat constantly, these issues you speak of pretty much disappear.


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

neliconcept said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> Looking for a short fattie for next season, something that is light and agile with a swallow tail or similar. I have been looking at the Rome Powder Division ST and it looks good but wanted some other opinions. I have a Burton Branch Manager now in 159 but it isn't super agile in the trees as I thought it might be (probably me partly too not being the best quick turner yet)
> 
> Thoughts?


What is your weight and boot size?


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## txb0115 (Sep 20, 2015)

F1EA said:


> I am seriously looking into a Khyber split 160.
> 
> Undecided if getting the Carbon-Kevlar or regular.... as I dont really like very stiff boards, but I would like the reduced weight of the carbon-kevlar construction........
> 
> ...


Prior boards with Carbon construction are actually a touch softer than their traditional fiberglass counterparts. I know that's not the norm, but Prior doesn't use Carbon to make decks stiff, they use it to make them light and to make them damp. I have 5 Priors all with Carbon or Carbon/Kevlar and they are not crazy stiff. I have a Khyber 165 and a Khyber 165 Split both with Carbon, and then a Backountry 165 with Carbon and Mountain Freeride 162 with Carbon, then I have a custom spec board on order with Carbon that will be here in a few weeks..

Give them a call, they're super cool and will answer any questions you have, but again their Carbon boards aren't stiff...


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## txb0115 (Sep 20, 2015)

linvillegorge said:


> If you stay centered over your board and don't ride/land in the back seat constantly, these issues you speak of pretty much disappear.


Not for me they don't.. I've been slashing since 1986, and was a buyer for a commission shop for a long time.. I know how to ride..

Those short boards in the upper cirque @ Snowbird suck... 

If they work for you great. But on my yearly Baldface trip, there's about 20+ other guys who think the same thing as I do, and we all ride quite a bit of pow...


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## linvillegorge (Jul 6, 2009)

txb0115 said:


> Not for me they don't.. I've been slashing since 1986, and was a buyer for a commission shop for a long time.. I know how to ride..
> 
> Those short boards in the upper cirque @ Snowbird suck...
> 
> If they work for you great. But on my yearly Baldface trip, there's about 20+ other guys who think the same thing as I do, and we all ride quite a bit of pow...


I don't know man, short and fat or long and setback, as long as I'm riding pow and grinning.

Haven't had any issues sticking landings or riding steeps with my short fat but then again, if I'm planning on sticking to the upper reaches of the mountain and hitting the biggest, steepest lines it has to offer I'm not reaching for the short fat. I won't shy away from that terrain on it, but it's certainly not my go-to stick if that's the plan.


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## Alonzo (Dec 30, 2015)

txb0115 said:


> Prior boards with Carbon construction are actually a touch softer than their traditional fiberglass counterparts. I know that's not the norm, but Prior doesn't use Carbon to make decks stiff, they use it to make them light and to make them damp. I have 5 Priors all with Carbon or Carbon/Kevlar and they are not crazy stiff. I have a Khyber 165 and a Khyber 165 Split both with Carbon, and then a Backountry 165 with Carbon and Mountain Freeride 162 with Carbon, then I have a custom spec board on order with Carbon that will be here in a few weeks..
> 
> Give them a call, they're super cool and will answer any questions you have, but again their Carbon boards aren't stiff...


Do you care to elaborate on the custom deck? Length/width, SCR, shape, flex, intentions, etc.? I think my secondary split will be a custom Prior in XTC as well.


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## Triple8Sol (Nov 24, 2008)

neliconcept said:


> Looking for a short fattie for next season, something that is light and agile with a swallow tail or similar. I have been looking at the Rome Powder Division ST and it looks good but wanted some other opinions.


The current year and older is super wide at 29.0cm waist. Unless you weigh close to 200+ and have a size 11+ boot, it is not quick edge to edge, although you can still whip the almost non-existent swallowtail around quickly. I would suggest waiting for next year's model, as they dialed down the waist width a bit so it should be closer to a K2 Cool Bean, which happens to be another great option for what you're looking for.


snoeboarder said:


> Looking at boards in person sometimes doesn't match the online stoke of the picture alone. With that said, I was not blown away by the feel of the Rome board when I saw it in person. Seemed fragile and could use some more attention to detail.


lol...wut? I owned the Rome Snurfer, which was just a limited edition version of the Pow Div ST. It's constructed nicely, as most Rome boards have always been. If anything it felt too heavy/durable. Some of my short fats that feel a bit more fragile are the Jones Storm Chaser and Rossi Sushi, which have alot of material removed and thinned out cores for weight and flex. Nothing is as fragile as the Nitro Quiver series though, those things are made of tofu.


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

txb0115 said:


> Prior boards with Carbon construction are actually a touch softer than their traditional fiberglass counterparts. I know that's not the norm, but Prior doesn't use Carbon to make decks stiff, they use it to make them light and to make them damp. I have 5 Priors all with Carbon or Carbon/Kevlar and they are not crazy stiff. I have a Khyber 165 and a Khyber 165 Split both with Carbon, and then a Backountry 165 with Carbon and Mountain Freeride 162 with Carbon, then I have a custom spec board on order with Carbon that will be here in a few weeks..
> 
> Give them a call, they're super cool and will answer any questions you have, but again their Carbon boards aren't stiff...


Yeah I can even go and demo/rent anytime. 

Tried a carbon Fissile last yr and it was bomber. I forgot which size though. 
So I will just go and demo a 160 Khyber carbon and see how it feels. They may even have the split version for rent/demo.


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## Triple8Sol (Nov 24, 2008)

phillyphan said:


> Check some of the older threads. There were tons from this season. In no specific order:
> 
> Ride Warpig
> Yes Optimistic (which is what I have)
> Marhar Lumberjack





linvillegorge said:


> Love my Lumberjack. Would like to try out the Warpig sometime, but went with the Lumberjack because I already have enough directional boards in my garage. Wanted something completely different.
> 
> Was hoping to hop on the NS Instagator yesterday at Loveland, but I was just having too much fun to come down the mountain to grab one at the demo tent.


Warpig was one of my top 3 most disappointing decks to own this season. We had 2 of them in our collective quiver, and while it's actually great for certain things, it just can't hang with the type of riding/terrain I hit most of the time. I'd like to try the Large next time around and see if that changes my opinion. I tried sizing up with the Capita Kazu 154 & 157 (not a short fat but just for illustrative purposes) and ended up selling both after only a day aboard each.


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## linvillegorge (Jul 6, 2009)

Yeah, the small Warpig is what? Like a 146 or something? That might be taking the concept a bit too far.

I'm on the 155 Lumberjack. About to pick up a 152 and I'll be picking one of the two to keep.


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## Triple8Sol (Nov 24, 2008)

linvillegorge said:


> Yeah, the small Warpig is what? Like a 146 or something? That might be taking the concept a bit too far.
> 
> I'm on the 155 Lumberjack. About to pick up a 152 and I'll be picking one of the two to keep.


It's a 148 which isn't much of an issue, since it has plenty of surface area with the volume shift. Have plenty of other decks in my quiver now or previously in the season around that length or even shorter (i.e. Storm Chaser 142, Slush Slasher 143, Cool Bean 138 & 144, Sushi 145, Mayhem 146, Coho 146, Snurfer 148, etc... I just figure a little extra length would help make up for the soft flex and resulting instability as well as give me a little more nose/tail to press on since the blunted tips hook too easily.


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## linvillegorge (Jul 6, 2009)

Triple8Sol said:


> It's a 148 which isn't much of an issue, since it has plenty of surface area with the volume shift. Have plenty of other decks in my quiver now or previously in the season around that length or even shorter (i.e. Storm Chaser 142, Slush Slasher 143, Cool Bean 138 & 144, Sushi 145, Mayhem 146, Coho 146, Snurfer 148, Treehugger 149, etc... I just figure a little extra length would help make up for the soft flex and resulting instability as well as give me a little more nose/tail to press on since the blunted tips hook too easily.


Have you ridden the Lumberjack? It was quite a bit stiffer than I was expecting based on the rating and reviews.


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## Triple8Sol (Nov 24, 2008)

linvillegorge said:


> Have you ridden the Lumberjack? It was quite a bit stiffer than I was expecting based on the rating and reviews.


Not yet, but that's one I definitely want to try out. If it's a little stiffer as you say, that might be perfect for me.


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## phillyphan (Sep 22, 2016)

txb0115 said:


> Not for me they don't.. I've been slashing since 1986, and was a buyer for a commission shop for a long time.. I know how to ride..
> 
> Those short boards in the upper cirque @ Snowbird suck...
> 
> If they work for you great. But on my yearly Baldface trip, there's about 20+ other guys who think the same thing as I do, and we all ride quite a bit of pow...


I partially agree w/ this. But you have to know when to use them. I was in Cirque back country where you're over waist deep and I hated having a short fatty. The nose dipped and I lost speed and no speed means more nose dip...Which led to me hitting a twig or rock and flipping. It was almost impossible to strap back in as I just sank. I got to the lift after they closed and ski patrol was there. They said you get into stuff like that and upend yourself, you are screwed. They don't float like regular powder boards. If you are DEEP. Pick a long, wide, fat-nosed board. The experts here (you know who you are) correct me. But the short-fattys may be more designed for fresh powder overnight under a foot, in trees and tight areas. I wouldn't think taking them up north into wide open steep and deep.


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## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

Depends on the short fat and how short it is. Most of them are surfers and pow decks. And one thing people are again forgetting is there is a difference between pow and freeride. There are very few short fat freerides. Freeride is steep and aggressive. Pow is float. Short fat freerides: Jones Hover, Ride Timeless. That's all that comes to mind actually. But yeah, I would take a 53 Timeless down some gnarly shit. And my new everyday decks are more 57-59. 


Anyway. If you want something floaty and quick in the trees I like the Arbor Cosa, K2 Simple Pleasure, Moss Step Swallow, most of the Snoplanks, most of the United Shapes, Nidecker Mosquito, Custom Killroy, Flow Darwin or Enigma, Mind Expander, and I have high hopes for the Signal Yup.


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## Fielding (Feb 15, 2015)

Big ups to Prior. Nice boards. I have a 4WD that whenever I get back on it I wonder why I was riding something else.



txb0115 said:


> F1EA said:
> 
> 
> > I am seriously looking into a Khyber split 160.
> ...


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## neliconcept (Jan 17, 2016)

Sorry for my absence, just finished moving into my new place. Some great insight in here! I'll keep looking around for deals as well, done for the season even though the NE just got blown up last night and this morning. Can't afford it


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## zc1 (Feb 20, 2017)

txb0115 said:


> Prior boards with Carbon construction are actually a touch softer than their traditional fiberglass counterparts. I know that's not the norm, but Prior doesn't use Carbon to make decks stiff, they use it to make them light and to make them damp. I have 5 Priors all with Carbon or Carbon/Kevlar and they are not crazy stiff. I have a Khyber 165 and a Khyber 165 Split both with Carbon, and then a Backountry 165 with Carbon and Mountain Freeride 162 with Carbon, then I have a custom spec board on order with Carbon that will be here in a few weeks..
> 
> Give them a call, they're super cool and will answer any questions you have, but again their Carbon boards aren't stiff...


I have an AMF with their regular construction, pressed as traditional camber and love it. I was planning to get another with their carbon/kevlar construction next year but it looks as though for 2017-18 they are removing the carbon-kevlar (XCK) in favour of just carbon (XCE). I'm interested to hear why the change. They do note that the boards will be "the lightest and popiest in [their] fleet."


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## txb0115 (Sep 20, 2015)

zc1 said:


> I have an AMF with their regular construction, pressed as traditional camber and love it. I was planning to get another with their carbon/kevlar construction next year but it looks as though for 2017-18 they are removing the carbon-kevlar (XCK) in favour of just carbon (XCE). I'm interested to hear why the change. They do note that the boards will be "the lightest and popiest in [their] fleet."


They used the Kevlar on the edges of the splits and skis as it held up better to banging against the other ski... In my talking to them they got a new weave of Carbon that is much more durable and makes the Kevlar no longer needed.

I've quite a few lengthy discussions with them about all of their construction materials/techniques while getting this fully custom board details settled.


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

zc1 said:


> I have an AMF with their regular construction, pressed as traditional camber and love it. I was planning to get another with their carbon/kevlar construction next year but it looks as though for 2017-18 they are removing the carbon-kevlar (XCK) in favour of just carbon (XCE). I'm interested to hear why the change. They do note that the boards will be "the lightest and popiest in [their] fleet."


Ohhh that sounds nice.


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## LALUNE (Feb 23, 2017)

txb0115 said:


> The problem with your Branch Manager is that even though the board has a lot of sidecut, it has very minimal taper, 8mm, if that deck had 25mm of taper and was a touch softer it would be more than likely the turning machine you are seeking.
> 
> So if you live in the mid-west or back east a short board might work for you since your terrain will never be that steep, but if you're out west I would suggest finding another 159ish board with more taper, that's a bit softer.


Sorry to chime in, but I am curious about your thought of Moss snowstick. I rarely saw people discuss them here in the forum and they are expensive imo. But some of their models(wing swallow) have the sidecut/taper profile you've described. Curious to know how they perform on powder.

Moss Snowstick ? WING SWALLOW

Moss Snowstick ? 58 SWALLOW


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## txb0115 (Sep 20, 2015)

LALUNE said:


> Sorry to chime in, but I am curious about your thought of Moss snowstick. I rarely saw people discuss them here in the forum and they are expensive imo. But some of their models(wing swallow) have the sidecut/taper profile you've described. Curious to know how they perform on powder.
> 
> Moss Snowstick ? WING SWALLOW
> 
> Moss Snowstick ? 58 SWALLOW


The Wing Swallow looks like it would be pretty pretty darn turny in the trees... 

The Swallow 58 looks like it would be better suited to super deep in big open bowls/spaces...

My personal opinion of full blown swallow tail boards is not very high, but YMMV..


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## LALUNE (Feb 23, 2017)

txb0115 said:


> The Wing Swallow looks like it would be pretty pretty darn turny in the trees...
> 
> The Swallow 58 looks like it would be better suited to super deep in big open bowls/spaces...
> 
> My personal opinion of full blown swallow tail boards is not very high, but YMMV..


Agreed.Between these two, I prefer the Wing Swallow as well. Still on the fence of whether to give it a try next season because of the price tag :grin:


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## Elektropow (Mar 6, 2014)

Nivek said:


> Depends on the short fat and how short it is. Most of them are surfers and pow decks. And one thing people are again forgetting is there is a difference between pow and freeride. There are very few short fat freerides. Freeride is steep and aggressive. Pow is float. Short fat freerides: Jones Hover, Ride Timeless. That's all that comes to mind actually. But yeah, I would take a 53 Timeless down some gnarly shit. And my new everyday decks are more 57-59.
> 
> 
> Anyway. If you want something floaty and quick in the trees I like the Arbor Cosa, K2 Simple Pleasure, Moss Step Swallow, most of the Snoplanks, most of the United Shapes, Nidecker Mosquito, Custom Killroy, Flow Darwin or Enigma, Mind Expander, and I have high hopes for the Signal Yup.


For me it seems to be the opposite. I wouldn't mind taking my 147 derby down steep an gnarly: easy to keep nose up and stable enough. Lower angle with deep snow is where I struggle to keep speed and the thing afloat.


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## Wss64 (Sep 21, 2016)

Anything super steep and hardpacked, I always feel better to have some sort of a tail. Some of the pow boards are very stubby on the back. But when there is lots of powder... steep or not, a nice Moss Wing SW will do the job perfectly.


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## snowklinger (Aug 30, 2011)

idk, if its steep and hardpack, I'm steering with and standing on my front foot, I hate the idea of having a bunch of lumber hanging up in the ruts behind me.


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## Wss64 (Sep 21, 2016)

Sure, I agree but when it is nasty hardpack on steep, to have a bit more behind the back foot lets me feel a bit safer when I need to stop... or I guess... just don't stop...


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## snowklinger (Aug 30, 2011)

Wss64 said:


> Sure, I agree but when it is nasty hardpack on steep, to have a bit more behind the back foot lets me feel a bit safer when I need to stop... or I guess... just don't stop...


you guys got brakes on your back foot over there?


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## Wss64 (Sep 21, 2016)

Yeah, front back, middle, disc, drum, whatever it takes.
When it gets really steep, if I can toss an anchor and stop, I would.


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## linvillegorge (Jul 6, 2009)

txb0115 said:


> Where do you live and what type of terrain do you ride?
> 
> I think short fat boards suck for the most part. I've been on many. For really flat terrain and low angle terrain they work quite well. Anything other than that and they suck, IMO. I would never ride one of those at Snowbird, even though the boards float well they don't handle steep terrain well and they suck for sending it, unless you happen to be 5"4' ( which you might be, lol ) At 6"1' 180lbs those short decks, no matter how wide, just can't compensate for the lack of forward/backward leverage someone of my height/weight will apply in steep terrain and the board wheelies all the time and you can't stick landings.
> 
> ...


Yeah, definitely gotta disagree for sure after today. First truly legit pow day I've had on the Lumberjack. I was bombing the steepest terrain available on it.

The only downside was later in the day at lower elevations, it's definitely a bucking bronco on tracked out heavier powder but that's not exactly a surprise for a softer flat to rocker board.


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## txb0115 (Sep 20, 2015)

linvillegorge said:


> Yeah, definitely gotta disagree for sure after today. First truly legit pow day I've had on the Lumberjack. I was bombing the steepest terrain available on it.
> 
> The only downside was later in the day at lower elevations, it's definitely a bucking bronco on tracked out heavier powder but that's not exactly a surprise for a softer flat to rocker board.


The Lumberjack is not a short fat board, in the spirit being discussed previously in this thread... It's nothing like a Lib Mayhem, Rome Powder Division ST or K2 Cool Bean... 

Those decks are sub 150cm, crazy wide, with set back stances and super short tails..

Lumberjack, is longer, not as wide, is a twin, and has a centered stance.... So not really what I was talking about at all..

As you said it a bucking bronco, when the going got tough...

The decks I spoke of would handle that crud much better, especially the Prior with Carbon construction, and would be a whole lot more energetic in turns and off hits with those decks still having camber under foot with rocker in the tip/tail.. That camber also helps a deck smash through the crud when things start getting tracked out as they always will on a pow day... As you said, the soft, flat/rocker doesn't do you any favors in those conditions, so not sure how that would make it a good deck to ride since you're always gonna encounter chowder/crud on a pow day after the first few hours...

But if you like it, then you're stoked...

But it was not the type of deck I was talking about, it's not a short fatty..


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## linvillegorge (Jul 6, 2009)

That seems a mighty narrow definition for a "short fatty". IMO, if you're sizing down 7+ centimeters and that downsized board is significantly wider than than the longer board, that certainly seems to fit the definition of "short and fat", but okay...

Not sure about Utah, but here in CO if it's a pow day in mid-winter you don't have to worry about crud. Sure, the snow will get tracked out later in the day, but it'll stay nice and soft.

I just rode the Lumberjack yesterday until the sun came out around 1pm and then I went to the truck and grabbed the NS 25.


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## phillyphan (Sep 22, 2016)

linvillegorge said:


> Love my Lumberjack. Would like to try out the Warpig sometime, but went with the Lumberjack because I already have enough directional boards in my garage. Wanted something completely different.
> 
> Was hoping to hop on the NS Instagator yesterday at Loveland, but I was just having too much fun to come down the mountain to grab one at the demo tent.


You want to sell that lumberjack yet?


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## SteezyRidah303 (Oct 5, 2010)

redlude97 said:


> I've been loving my k2 cool bean, and my buddies who have purchased just about every short fat this season(see the quiver thread) are still holding onto the lib short fat and NS swift fwiw


I have a lib short fat that i love but i think id like the twin short fat a little more. The cool bean is pretty rad too. The Yes 420 was another of my faves from last year


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## phillyphan (Sep 22, 2016)

SteezyRidah303 said:


> I have a lib short fat that i love but i think id like the twin short fat a little more. The cool bean is pretty rad too. The Yes 420 was another of my faves from last year


Did you buy the Yes 420?


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## SteezyRidah303 (Oct 5, 2010)

phillyphan said:


> Did you buy the Yes 420?


No just demo'd it and the 20/20


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