# should i change my stance ?



## Chris (Feb 6, 2012)

I ride a 0/0 goofy and i've ridden that for 4 years. I ride park and all mountain. But i've heard like a 15/-15 is better for park, so just wondering what your advice is. Thanks!


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## grafta (Dec 21, 2009)

I'm laughing so hard right now. Teh awesome! You win the internet. I lose. Good form sir :thumbsup:


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## MistahTaki (Apr 24, 2010)

Riding 15/12 feels best for me. Riding 0/0 is pretty ridiculous haha


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## Jollybored (Nov 7, 2011)

grafta said:


> I'm laughing so hard right now. Teh awesome! You win the internet. I lose. Good form sir :thumbsup:


 0/0
'..'

I think that was just a smiley face


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## linvillegorge (Jul 6, 2009)

Is this real life?

I'd love to see someone riding with 0/0 angles.


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## MistahTaki (Apr 24, 2010)

Especially park. That would be hilarious


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## Argo (Feb 25, 2010)

talk about jerking some knee and ankle ligaments around, you bowlegged or something?

really though, 15/-15 or 15/-10 or somewhere in there is good. My son rides 18/-12 usually..


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## Ttam (Jan 20, 2010)

15/-13 is perfect for me. Riding at 0/0? Are you fucking crazy?


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## chronicsmoke (Nov 30, 2011)

You guys laugh but I went out with my buddy who is riding a 162 Burton Bullet trad. camber deck.. We switched up because I wanted him to try a rocker and holy fuck.. he had a ridiculous setback(max. setback you can go) with his feet as close together as possible and a 0/0 degree stance, and get this.. A HUGE set back to the heel side (so much that his heels would drag on carves, but his toes were bearely even at the edge.. 

Some people just have absolutely no Idea how what they are doing.. He's been riding like that for years


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## chronicsmoke (Nov 30, 2011)

Snowolf said:


> Stranger things can be seen. I had a student who was severely pigeon toed and his toes literally pointed inward about -15/15. He physically could not ride duck or anything approaching a 0/0. We tried a few things from -9/12 and finally found a forward stance with the front foot at 3 and the back foot about 21 worked best for his condition. There are lots of medical issues out there and you will see some pretty strange shit but hey, whatever works and gets them on the snow having fun.


That was actually why he had a 0/0.. But the heel/tail setbacks were just strange haha


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## SnowMotion (Oct 8, 2010)

Chris said:


> I ride a 0/0 goofy and i've ridden that for 4 years. I ride park and all mountain. But i've heard like a 15/-15 is better for park, so just wondering what your advice is. Thanks!


No worries man! I rode 0/0 for my first 4 or 5 years{I had no one to teach me not to). BUT CHANGE IT IMMEDIATELY! You should try 15/-15 at first its a good neutral stance. Then down the line when you understand what stances benefit the riding style of your choice you can tweak it some more. GL

Oh ya there is also shops out there setting people up this way.


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## Chris (Feb 6, 2012)

SnowMotion said:


> No worries man! I rode 0/0 for my first 4 or 5 years{I had no one to teach me not to). BUT CHANGE IT IMMEDIATELY! You should try 15/-15 at first its a good neutral stance. Then down the line when you understand what stances benefit the riding style of your choice you can tweak it some more. GL
> 
> Oh ya there is also shops out there setting people up this way.


so how does that work for goofy riders. Left foot at 15 and right at -15 ? Or the other way around ?


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## LuckyRVA (Jan 18, 2011)

Yes OP you should. I blew my knees out just reading your post.


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## HoboMaster (May 16, 2010)

How long have you been riding 0 angles? I think you will be pleasantly surprised when you change them, I can't even imagine riding that way.


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## ThunderChunky (Oct 1, 2011)

This is weird. I've ridden 0 for seven years and am a park person. Doesn't bother me a bit. When my bindings twist when I'm riding it feels so weird and uncomfortable to have them angled out.


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## SnowMotion (Oct 8, 2010)

ThunderChunky said:


> This is weird. I've ridden 0 for seven years and am a park person. Doesn't bother me a bit. When my bindings twist when I'm riding it feels so weird and uncomfortable to have them angled out.


You should duck out your bindings as well. It will feel different at first but when your legs get comfortable with it. Your riding will be easier, better and a hell of a lot safer for your knees. The 15/-15 stance is used in most martial arts as a balanced athletic stance. Again it may not be the best stance for you but a great place to start figuring out your real stance. 0/0 IS NOT A REAL STANCE!


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## poutanen (Dec 22, 2011)

Dear god I cringe reading this... Here's a way to give you a rough idea what it feels like:

Stand with your feet shoulder width apart, both facing straight ahead. Now do a half squat and try to rotate and bounce lol... I'm doing this in my office and must look retarded! Anyway I can turn my upper body about 45 degrees in either direction before I get some serious knee pain.

Now keep your heels where they are but lift your toes and rotate your feet so they're just slightly toed out \---/ and try it again. I can turn probably about 60 degrees in each direction that way.

For what it's worth, +15-15 may be too wide for some people. I like to keep angles between 18-24 degrees apart but that's my taste. I ride -9/+9 and used to ride -12/+12. That 18-24 degree spacing works for any binding setup. I had my girlfriend start -3/+15 to help her feel comfortable turning before we changed her to a symmetrical duck stance half way through this year (which she loves by the way).

The "old" stance that every rental board in the early 90's had was usually 0/+18 or so. I learned on this on rental boards for a winter in 92/93, then when I got my first board I set it up the same, but then experimented over a few year period until I found symmetrical duck to be the most comfortable for me.

Also experiment with stance width as this will have a big effect on your riding. I tend to find the reference stancewidths pretty good on most boards I've been on and set up, but I'm heavier than my height should be, so sometimes need to go more narrow.

Yeah just try shit out and see what you like instead of listening to us!  Don't do it at home though. Go to the hill and take a few warmup runs to feel the snow, then use the resort tools or a screwdriver from home to make small adjustments (say a 3-5 degrees per foot at a time) and take it for a few more laps, repeat until you find a good stance angle. Then experiment with stance width. Don't change two things at the same time (i.e. angle and width) or you won't know what change was positive and what was potentially negative.


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## Casual (Feb 9, 2011)

I ride 15/-15. With most new riders that dont know what angles will be comfortable I tell them to jump and do a 180 and land with their feet just wider than shoulder width. Do that several times and get a good idea what angles your feet are at. This is going to give you a good idea of what angles your knees and ankles will feel most comfortable with when riding. Most people land around 12-15. The width of your stance is obviously going to play into this too, but in my experience a wide stance is better for balance whether your freeriding or in the park. I ride at 23.5".


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## poutanen (Dec 22, 2011)

Casual said:


> The width of your stance is obviously going to play into this too, but in my experience a wide stance is better for balance whether your freeriding or in the park. I ride at 23.5".


Yes and no. You ever watch a figure skater do the "ice twirling" thing? They start spinning with their arms out wide, and when they pull their arms in close to their body they spin MUCH faster with no extra energy put into the system. I realize none of us are trying to do triple sow-cows or quadruple mie-ties but the physics of it still applies. :laugh:

There is a happy medium somewhere, and some people seem to be WAY off the mark. For what it's worth I'm about 5'6-5'7 and I ride a 21" stance width.


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## Casual (Feb 9, 2011)

poutanen said:


> Yes and no. You ever watch a figure skater do the "ice twirling" thing? They start spinning with their arms out wide, and when they pull their arms in close to their body they spin MUCH faster with no extra energy put into the system. I realize none of us are trying to do triple sow-cows or quadruple mie-ties but the physics of it still applies. :laugh:
> 
> There is a happy medium somewhere, and some people seem to be WAY off the mark. For what it's worth I'm about 5'6-5'7 and I ride a 21" stance width.


Agreed, but I am 5'11" so my 23.5" is probably the same as your 21". What I am getting at is the angles relative to the width will feel different. 15' at 24" will have a different effect than 15' at 20" with the same rider height. 

I hope your not suggesting I could spin 7's much easier with a 20" stance though  Thats just silly. Upper body position in the air will effect your spin 100 times more than a few inches of stance, but the stance will greatly effect balance and comfort.


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## poutanen (Dec 22, 2011)

Casual said:


> Agreed, but I am 5'11" so my 23.5" is probably the same as your 21". What I am getting at is the angles relative to the width will feel different. 15' at 24" will have a different effect than 15' at 20" with the same rider height.
> 
> I hope your not suggesting I could spin 7's much easier with a 20" stance though  Thats just silly. Upper body position in the air will effect your spin 100 times more than a few inches of stance, but the stance will greatly effect balance and comfort.


Yeah I wasn't saying your stance was too wide (I didn't know how tall you were). There's got to be a crotch angle range that could help somebody predict their ideal stance width based on inseam though. 

Not saying you could spin 7's any easier, but your original post sort of made it sound like the wider the better. Try setting your stance width to 25" and doing whatever spin you're normally comfortable with and you'll see what I mean. There's a reason all the best freestyle boarders tuck everything in tight in the air. It's the same reason they make thinner tips and tails than before, and the same reason people buy shorter boards for the park.

I think we're saying the same thing, I just don't want a newbie setting up his first board to max out the stance width cause he thinks it'll be him better at jumps.


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## Casual (Feb 9, 2011)

poutanen said:


> Yeah I wasn't saying your stance was too wide (I didn't know how tall you were). There's got to be a crotch angle range that could help somebody predict their ideal stance width based on inseam though.
> 
> Not saying you could spin 7's any easier, but your original post sort of made it sound like the wider the better. Try setting your stance width to 25" and doing whatever spin you're normally comfortable with and you'll see what I mean. There's a reason all the best freestyle boarders tuck everything in tight in the air. It's the same reason they make thinner tips and tails than before, and the same reason people buy shorter boards for the park.
> 
> I think we're saying the same thing, I just don't want a newbie setting up his first board to max out the stance width cause he thinks it'll be him better at jumps.


Touche, no I definately do not think people should max out there stance. If your crotch is ripping dial it back! haha. I just meant within comfort, a wider stance offers more balance and in my opinion easier turns.


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## glm (Aug 12, 2011)

Lol. My friend had a 0/0 stance until we switched board for a run and I could barley snowboard. I asked him if he would want to try something different, and literally he got at least 30% better and many times more confident the next day


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## Chris (Feb 6, 2012)

alright ill change it. thanks for the advice


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## Zombaco (Dec 14, 2011)

SnowMotion said:


> Oh ya there is also shops out there setting people up this way.


This is scary. One of my buddies got a new setup last year and the shop installed his bindings backwards- buckles on the inside. How does that happen?


To the OP- I agree with the others to start at 15/-15. Try that out for a day or two, then as suggested, I would change up your angles for a few runs to a day. I started at 15/-15 for a few days, then spent a day each on 18/-15, 18/-18, then settled in on 15/-12 since then. Definitely duck it out and find what works best for you.


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## handscreate (Jan 17, 2012)

+1 for going with a duck stance. I ride +15/-15 now & find it's way easier to ride every type of terrain I've come across so far (at least that I want to ride)


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## FirstChair (Mar 24, 2010)

Don't make the switch from 0/0 to 15/-15 all at once.
Try 9/-9 to make the change more gradual, then if you want, you can open up the angle to 15/-15 or more if needed.


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## Intheshit (Jan 8, 2012)

9/9 is great.

15/15 caused me to suffer knee damage.

6/6 was hella fun for carving

0/15 is what i started on

ive tried a few other set ups imbetween.


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## xn7 (Dec 28, 2010)

Snowolf said:


> Stranger things can be seen. I had a student who was severely pigeon toed and his toes literally pointed inward about -15/15. He physically could not ride duck or anything approaching a 0/0. We tried a few things from -9/12 and finally found a forward stance with the front foot at 3 and the back foot about 21 worked best for his condition. There are lots of medical issues out there and you will see some pretty strange shit but hey, whatever works and gets them on the snow having fun.


i'm about to go +9/-15 after trying out my gf's board which is set up goofy +15/-9.. fixed a problem i have with.. slightly longer lead leg (maybe like 3mm). makes it easier for me to transfer weight front/back. within the first run my riding effort went down and everything felt more natural. guess the point is try different things, might be surprised at the improvement it makes.


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## bcasey (Jan 19, 2011)

Anyone and everyone that is not riding the same stance as Shawn White or Trice is wrong..












.....Just kidding! ride what feels good for you.
Takes some messing around to find what works for you, your body, riding style blah blah.
Both my boards have similar angles but my freeride board has +3 degree on both the front and back binding compared to my freestyle board. my stance is maybe .5-.75 of an inch wider on my freestyle board as well.


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