# Burton Photon vs Burton Photon WIDE



## Rodpwnz (Aug 1, 2019)

Sup guys,

I was able to snag a regular and wide pair of size 10.5 burton step on photon boots. However, I'm not 100% sure which one would be the best fit for me. At the shop with thin ski socks, I was measured at mondo 285 for my left foot and 280 on my right. At home and barefooted, I've measured around 4 inches wide for both feet and 11 inches length using @Wiredsport's method against a wall. 

With 11 inch length and 4 inch width, I would be right in the middle at D width so the regular Burton boots should fit. 

I tried both boots on but after a couple minutes in the regular boots I was having numbness and pressure on the outer side and big toe of my left foot. Right foot felt fine. In the wide boots, everything felt good but I definitely noticed a little wiggle room in the toe box area.


----------



## Rodpwnz (Aug 1, 2019)

Wondering what your guys' thoughts are? 

Also just put the regular ones on again and both feet are feeling pain and numbness on the outside edges right around and below the outer toe hook area.

Thanks for any and all help!


----------



## Kijima (Mar 3, 2019)

Boots pack out but never in. I measure 4e wide and fit perfectly into my photon wides.


----------



## bazman (Jan 15, 2017)

Make sure you try on some boots from other brands. Your foot shape might not suit Burton. Don't choose poorly fitting boots just to get step ons


----------



## Rodpwnz (Aug 1, 2019)

Kijima said:


> Boots pack out but never in. I measure 4e wide and fit perfectly into my photon wides.


Yeah, I'm wondering how much heat molding will pack out and help, and if the heat molding would solve the issues. 




bazman said:


> Make sure you try on some boots from other brands. Your foot shape might not suit Burton. Don't choose poorly fitting boots just to get step ons


 I've tried on some 32 and salomon boots and the 32 felt amazing - great heel hold and still comfy but I didn't wear either of them for long. 

I know it sounds dumb but I'm really tired of strapping in every run so I'm heavily pushing for the step ons. DC is releasing step on boots next year so worst case scenario I can sell after this season if I'm not a fan of the photons. I'm just worried that the 10.5 regular won't pack out enough during heat molding...


----------



## bazman (Jan 15, 2017)

Rodpwnz said:


> I know it sounds dumb but I'm really tired of strapping in every run so I'm heavily pushing for the step ons. DC is releasing step on boots next year so worst case scenario I can sell after this season if I'm not a fan of the photons. I'm just worried that the 10.5 regular won't pack out enough during heat molding...


Think about how long you spend riding, walking and sitting on chair lifts. Compare that with how long you spend strapping in.

If the boots are a bad fit it would be a big mistake to ruin your riding enjoyment to save 5 seconds every time you strap in.


----------



## Rodpwnz (Aug 1, 2019)

bazman said:


> Think about how long you spend riding, walking and sitting on chair lifts. Compare that with how long you spend strapping in.
> 
> If the boots are a bad fit it would be a big mistake to ruin your riding enjoyment to save 5 seconds every time you strap in.


I get you, and I completely understand - but I'm really hesitant to invest in brand new boots and bindings only to be stuck strapping in every run for the next few years again. I'd rather try everything I can with the photons before giving up to regular boots and bindings again. It's not like it's completely ruled out yet just because its tight when I haven't heat molded or packed out at all.


----------



## Radialhead (Jan 3, 2018)

Pain around the toe cleats seems to be a common issue with Step-ons. If you remove the liner & put your foot in the shell, & have a bit of space at the side of your toes, the liner will either pack out enough or can be modified. But it may simply be that your foot shape doesn't match the Burton shape, in which case another option like Flow or SP (which come under several labels) might be worth looking into. I've got the Pathron-branded SP's & don't feel the Step-ons would give me enough extra benefit to justify the cost. Wiredsport was going to be selling his own version of the SP I believe, don't know whether that came off or not.


----------



## Rodpwnz (Aug 1, 2019)

Radialhead said:


> Pain around the toe cleats seems to be a common issue with Step-ons. If you remove the liner & put your foot in the shell, & have a bit of space at the side of your toes, the liner will either pack out enough or can be modified. But it may simply be that your foot shape doesn't match the Burton shape, in which case another option like Flow or SP (which come under several labels) might be worth looking into. I've got the Pathron-branded SP's & don't feel the Step-ons would give me enough extra benefit to justify the cost. Wiredsport was going to be selling his own version of the SP I believe, don't know whether that came off or not.


Thanks for the info and suggestion, I'll go for the SP or flows if the step ons don't work out.

I removed the liner and while wearing the regular shell alone, I can feel the shell lightly touching the outer edge of my foot but no pressure. Not sure if that leaves any room for pack out or not, probably going to try heat molding tomorrow. I put the liner in and I try it on again but don't tighten that much. Now I feel pressure on the tip of my big toe but not on the outer side. Maybe I was just tightening too much?!?!?

I'll report back tomorrow after visiting boot shop and heat mold.


----------



## Rodpwnz (Aug 1, 2019)

UPDATE: Last weekend, I went to a highly rated snowboard shop in Tahoe where I was going to demo a couple boards. I asked the shop "boot fitter" to measure my feet and let me know if I should wear my wide 10.5 or regular 10.5 step ons. She measured my length at 290mm with my thin ski socks and didn't measure my width at all. She says that the 10.5 regular should fit well. When I asked her if she was going to measure my width she just says "I could just tell by looking that you aren't a wide" - I honestly should have left right there but my friends were getting fitted in there already so I stayed and pressed further telling her that the regulars were kind of tight when trying on. Her answer was that you always want to size down and that heat molding and riding will help pack out and it should feel great soon. 

Well, I get all setup and heat molded, and within a few mins of riding my feet are going numb and my big toe is pretty sore/painful. I put up with this all day and loosen up while I'm not actively riding to relieve pressure. After the day is over, I get back to the shop and I express that my big toe hurts and that my outer feet and toes were in pain and going numb, she says "Don't worry dude, they'll pack out the more you ride. Give it a few more days". So I do, I ride the next day and same thing if not getting worse since I'm just adding more pain and soreness from the day before. I come back and explain again about my discomfort and she tells me the SAME THING again. "It'll just pack out dude" 

Next day I rented some 100% packed out garbage size 11 boots and rode without my toes going numb or outer edge hurting - just still super sore big toes occasionally rubbing the front of boot. Whatever - some painkillers helped when riding. After that, I'm pretty sure I need size 11 wide step ons but at this point I'm almost just going to give up on them and grab some Flows or SP or even regular bindings since the step ons weren't even that easy and I usually strap in within 10 seconds. 

The whole time I was telling myself to just trust my own knowledge, but I thought that the shop "boot fitter" who does this all the time would know better...Honestly mostly just disappointed in myself for not trusting my own knowledge. 

My big toes are still purple under the nail and sore...I hope my nail doesn't fall off lol

Called burton about the 11 wide step ons and they are completely sold out and have no idea when or if they will have more this season. Guess I'll start by buying some new non burton and non step on boots and spend LOADS of time trying them on and wearing them before buying. I can still use my old bindings while I'm looking into which new bindings to get.

Thanks for all the help guys! I'm still glad I gave this a shot and learned a lot moving forward! Now just gotta return the unused gear and sell the used ones! Anyone looking for a couple days used 10.5 photon step on?


----------



## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

Rodpwnz said:


> With 11 inch length and 4 inch width, I would be right in the middle at D width so the regular Burton boots should fit.


Hi Rod,

11 inch length is Mondopoint 280 or size 10 US in snowboard boots. a 4 inch width is a "normal" D width at this size. Lest get back to the beginning and shoot images of all 4 barefoot measurements being taken. Please be sure to show the whole foot, the wall, and the ruler in each image.


----------



## Bradley B (Oct 9, 2019)

Wiredsport said:


> Hi Rod,
> 
> 11 inch length is Mondopoint 280 or size 10 US in snowboard boots. a 4 inch width is a "normal" D width at this size. Lest get back to the beginning and shoot images of all 4 barefoot measurements being taken. Please be sure to show the whole foot, the wall, and the ruler in each image.


I'm going through some of the same stuff as Rodpwnz. May I ask for your help as well and if willing wear should I start? I'm new to this forum is there something I should read about measuring my feet first? Thanks in advance.


----------



## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

I will be happy to help. Please measure your feet using this method:

Kick your heel (barefoot please, no socks) back against a wall. Mark the floor exactly at the tip of your toe (the one that sticks out furthest - which toe this is will vary by rider). Measure from the mark on the floor to the wall. That is your foot length and is the only measurement that you will want to use. Measure in centimeters if possible, but if not, take inches and multiply by 2.54 (example: an 11.25 inch foot x 2.54 = 28.57 centimeters). For width please place the inside (medial side) of your foot against a wall. Please then measure from the wall out to the widest point on the lateral (outside) of your foot.


----------



## t21 (Dec 29, 2010)

Rodpwnz said:


> UPDATE: Last weekend, I went to a highly rated snowboard shop in Tahoe where I was going to demo a couple boards. I asked the shop "boot fitter" to measure my feet and let me know if I should wear my wide 10.5 or regular 10.5 step ons. She measured my length at 290mm with my thin ski socks and didn't measure my width at all. She says that the 10.5 regular should fit well. When I asked her if she was going to measure my width she just says "I could just tell by looking that you aren't a wide" - I honestly should have left right there but my friends were getting fitted in there already so I stayed and pressed further telling her that the regulars were kind of tight when trying on. Her answer was that you always want to size down and that heat molding and riding will help pack out and it should feel great soon.
> 
> Well, I get all setup and heat molded, and within a few mins of riding my feet are going numb and my big toe is pretty sore/painful. I put up with this all day and loosen up while I'm not actively riding to relieve pressure. After the day is over, I get back to the shop and I express that my big toe hurts and that my outer feet and toes were in pain and going numb, she says "Don't worry dude, they'll pack out the more you ride. Give it a few more days". So I do, I ride the next day and same thing if not getting worse since I'm just adding more pain and soreness from the day before. I come back and explain again about my discomfort and she tells me the SAME THING again. "It'll just pack out dude"
> 
> ...


Hey,check your inbox.i pm'd you about your issue.


----------



## t21 (Dec 29, 2010)

Hey Rodpnzw, check your inbox,i pm'd you about your issue.


----------



## Rodpwnz (Aug 1, 2019)

Wiredsport said:


> Hi Rod,
> 
> 11 inch length is Mondopoint 280 or size 10 US in snowboard boots. a 4 inch width is a "normal" D width at this size. Lest get back to the beginning and shoot images of all 4 barefoot measurements being taken. Please be sure to show the whole foot, the wall, and the ruler in each image.


Hi Wired,

Thanks for the help! I have the original photos from when I first measured but I just took some new ones today as well showing the whole foot. I'm not very flexible and I think my feet width changes depending on pressure placement - which isn't so easy to get perfect or consistent when placed against the wall. I hope these work and help get an idea of my measurements. Bruising has substantially subsided from a few weeks ago and I still have my nails soon grateful for that!


----------



## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

Rodpwnz said:


> Hi Wired,
> 
> Thanks for the help! I have the original photos from when I first measured but I just took some new ones today as well showing the whole foot. I'm not very flexible and I think my feet width changes depending on pressure placement - which isn't so easy to get perfect or consistent when placed against the wall. I hope these work and help get an idea of my measurements. Bruising has substantially subsided from a few weeks ago and I still have my nails soon grateful for that!


Hi Rod,
11 inch length is Mondopoint 280 or size 10 US in snowboard boots. A 4 inch width is a "normal" D width at this size. You are a very easy fit and you should not consider any of the sizes that the shop had suggested. You will want size 10 US in standard width. 

STOKED!


----------



## Rodpwnz (Aug 1, 2019)

Wiredsport said:


> Hi Rod,
> 11 inch length is Mondopoint 280 or size 10 US in snowboard boots. A 4 inch width is a "normal" D width at this size. You are a very easy fit and you should not consider any of the sizes that the shop had suggested. You will want size 10 US in standard width.
> 
> STOKED!


Thanks for the sizing confirmation Wired - are my big toes getting bruised and sore because my boots are too long? Honestly big toes feel firmly pushed up against the front - I still have bruising under the nail from my 2 days of riding.

As for the width, maybe burton boots just don't fit my foot if I'm feeling pain and numbness on the outer edges? considering my sizing is supposed to be 10 and I was in a 10.5?

I'm even more confused now since you've confirmed my measurements were correct, and are telling me to size down even more though my boots are tight to the point of intense pain and numbness.


----------



## WigMar (Mar 17, 2019)

It just doesn't sound like you have a Burton foot. I've got more of a Ride foot myself. Try on boots from every company until you find a good fit in your size. Heat molding helps, but the boot has to fit well first. Big toe problems can be from too big a boot, because your foot can slide forward. Used to happen to me when I sized up for a wider toe box.


----------



## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

Rodpwnz said:


> Thanks for the sizing confirmation Wired - are my big toes getting bruised and sore because my boots are too long? Honestly big toes feel firmly pushed up against the front - I still have bruising under the nail from my 2 days of riding.
> 
> As for the width, maybe burton boots just don't fit my foot if I'm feeling pain and numbness on the outer edges? considering my sizing is supposed to be 10 and I was in a 10.5?
> 
> I'm even more confused now since you've confirmed my measurements were correct, and are telling me to size down even more though my boots are tight to the point of intense pain and numbness.


You can pull the insert (footbeds) out of your current boots, stand on them and take barefoot images of that and post them here. As your boots are a half size too large that can (and very commonly does) cause this issue.


----------



## CreatveArtist (Feb 24, 2021)

Rodpwnz said:


> Thanks for the sizing confirmation Wired - are my big toes getting bruised and sore because my boots are too long? Honestly big toes feel firmly pushed up against the front - I still have bruising under the nail from my 2 days of riding.
> 
> As for the width, maybe burton boots just don't fit my foot if I'm feeling pain and numbness on the outer edges? considering my sizing is supposed to be 10 and I was in a 10.5?
> 
> I'm even more confused now since you've confirmed my measurements were correct, and are telling me to size down even more though my boots are tight to the point of intense pain and numbness.


Actually, as someone who has wide square feet, it's important to look at your toebox. Your toes shouldn't actually be hitting anything, The boot should hold your feet in place without the toes hitting. The mistake most measurements make is measuring from the widest part of the foot, when you actually want to look at the toe box and see it curves before your toes end. Also as someone who owned the original K2 clickers, I can say unequivocally, that anyone who says that the step-on/clicker bindings aren't that different hasn't used them!


----------



## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

CreatveArtist said:


> Actually, as someone who has wide square feet, it's important to look at your toebox. Your toes shouldn't actually be hitting anything, The boot should hold your feet in place without the toes hitting. The mistake most measurements make is measuring from the widest part of the foot, when you actually want to look at the toe box and see it curves before your toes end. Also as someone who owned the original K2 clickers, I can say unequivocally, that anyone who says that the step-on/clicker bindings aren't that different hasn't used them!


Hi Creative,

This is really two different issues. In a correctly fit snowboard boot you will have firm pressure into the compliant materials of the liner at both your toes and heels. That is true regardless of foot width or shape. The second issue is that the design width of the boot does need to match the width of the foot.

STOKED!


----------



## Rodpwnz (Aug 1, 2019)

Hi Guys,

First of all, thanks to everyone for all your help! Maybe my boot fit woes will be a lesson and warning to those who checked out the thread!

Second, as an update, after one weekend in those size 11 burton photon step ons, my toe nails were completely bruised(Black and blue) and for months did not heal fully. I didnt even try to ride the 10.5's. After about 6 months I decided it was finally time to see the podiatrist and he recommended surgical removal of my right toenail and partial removal of my left. The right toenail removal and recovery was not a fun experience to say the least...took over a month to heal skin and two months to start growing new nail. I never want to go through that again. The left one that had been clipped halfway had developed into a seriously painful ingrown and I had to get it cut back some more - bloody and painful recovery...still slightly ingrown.

Anyways, here we are months later and many days on the mountain later; I obviously persevered. 

I had returned both sets of step ons and boots pre season and picked up a Goretex burton bib and some anon goggles using burton credit. The rest of the credit I had at sports basement, and used that to pick up another set of step on bindings and DC CONTROL step on boots in size 11. Now, I know I know, fool me once...fool me twice. But here is the thing, these boots feel much better and much wider than any of the burton boots. My left toenail is still ingrown so that is uncomfortable after some time in the boot, but that doesn't have to do with the boots - I would be in pain no matter what boot I wore. The nail should grow back to its full length and no longer be dug into the middle of my toe flesh - podiatrist confirmed as well. 

The DC control are very flexible, and don't lock my ankles in like the burton boots did, but at least I'm not killing my feet while riding. I had them heat molded and fitted at sports basement and there was still a brief break in period, but after the first 2-3 days, they feel great. I'd recommend to those who do not have a burton foot to check out the DC or the K2 clicker X for an alternative to strap in bindings. I've also looked into Flows, but the step ons are so so nice and quick, even compared to my usual 5 second standing strap in time. 

So in conclusion, all is well with the snow board gear and I love my DC boots with step on bindings! Shred on friends!


----------



## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

Rodpwnz said:


> Hi Guys,
> 
> First of all, thanks to everyone for all your help! Maybe my boot fit woes will be a lesson and warning to those who checked out the thread!
> 
> ...


Hi Rod,
Black toenails are a sign of boots that are too large. Based on your measurements and images above you are an easy fit size 10 in snowboard boots. A size 11 is a full size too large. That extra cm of room will always allow foot motion. Subtle but consistent foot motion inside the boot is what causes black nails.

STOKED!


----------

