# Should there be restrictions for park entry?



## Extremo (Nov 6, 2008)

What do you think? Should anyone be aloud to ride in the park regardless of ability? Or should there be limitations like a park pass? 

Personally I'm sick of seeing kids that can't hit any feature in the park walking up jumps on ski's, moms standing on the knuckle of the jump watching their kid ride up and over a lip, and kid's on vacation bombing through the park cutting you off forcing you to stop short of hitting a large jump.


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## Enigmatic (Feb 6, 2009)

yeah I totally feel your pain. 

I think a video teaching the proper riding techniques in the park would probably be the most plausible way of dealing with the problem. 

People tend to do really stupid things in the park and I would assume that alot of it is out of ignorance.


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## mijinkal (Jan 9, 2009)

I think the only time a park pass is needed is when the park has insane jumps and rails like the one at Blackcomb. Otherwise, everybody should be able to go in when they want. I don't want to watch a stupid video each time I go to a different resort. 
plus, I bring my kids in the park with me and they stop beside the jumps to watch me.


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## Random Hero (Sep 30, 2008)

Extremo said:


> What do you think? Should anyone be aloud to ride in the park regardless of ability? Or should there be limitations like a park pass?
> 
> Personally I'm sick of seeing kids that can't hit any feature in the park walking up jumps on ski's, moms standing on the knuckle of the jump watching their kid ride up and over a lip, and kid's on vacation bombing through the park cutting you off forcing you to stop short of hitting a large jump.


Took the words right out of my mouth. I'm so sick of having to negotiate my way through 7 year olds while their retarded parents sit there and watch. I wonder if these same parents let their kids plan in traffic as well.


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## Guest (Mar 1, 2009)

Etiquette my friends. That is what is needed. Also, peeps should ride the park that fits their ability level. Most resorts will have beginner and intermediate parks. What I would like to see is some kind of oversight in the park itself by someone with the authority to educate and let riders/skiers know when they are not adhering to the rules without being a Nazi about it.

I do feel your pain I just don't agree with the idea of regular park riders getting aggro and getting in peoples faces when etiquette is not practiced by newer and or in experienced users.

The resorts should tackle this issue and educate the people and maintain a presence in the park especially on busy weekend and or high use days.

The rules are posted when you enter any manmade features, but who takes the time to read them? and for that matter who cares? Oversight and on the spot education is what is needed. The resorts are being slack here IMO


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## Flick Montana (Jul 9, 2007)

I don't personally go through the park, but I have seen many times where people are just sort of hanging out in front of features. Isn't that a bit like taking a stroll along the bottom of the half pipe?


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## Random Hero (Sep 30, 2008)

Flick Montana said:


> I don't personally go through the park, but I have seen many times where people are just sort of hanging out in front of features. Isn't that a bit like taking a stroll along the bottom of the half pipe?


I like to think of it as someone trying to get a nomination for a darwin award.


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## Extremo (Nov 6, 2008)

Well the thing is there's a Nastar Race course at my local mountain and it has a gate that you are allowed through by staff. If they set up the same kind of entrance at the park I'm sure it would deter people from just dropping into it. 

They even make you watch a short video at Six Flags before you can buy a speed pass. Resorts should at least consider something like that when they're selling a park pass. 

And the park that I'm talking about is large features only. Most of the jumps require you to drop 200+ feet to clear. No 9 year old kids are hitting anything like that but they do like to walk up them or jump off 4 feet up the side. And there are dozens of them...if you wanted to wait till they all got out of the way you'd literally stand there all day before it was clear. Something has got to be done.


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## bakesale (Nov 28, 2008)

Yes the groms and their parents in the park are a huge pain in the ass and a real danger but I don't believe that park access should be restricted. It would impact my ability to ride the parks at new resorts as well. Imagine going to a resort when on a road trip, you have fun in the powder in the morning and want to ride park in the afternoon. You roll up to the park and they pull some bullshit rule on you saying you need a special mark on your pass to say that you've taken their safety course, or even worse that you must have a helmet.

However they should spend more energy on discouraging kids and beginners from entering the park. If they begin to rate terrain parks as double black diamond areas, even the beginner parks it would help. They also need signs that are more clear and less wordy to warn people of the risk. I'm a firm believer in education, if you make people really understand the danger and the risks they will avoid it, if they don't then they have at least made an informed decision.


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## Guest (Mar 1, 2009)

Extremo said:


> Well the thing is there's a Nastar Race course at my local mountain and it has a gate that you are allowed through by staff. If they set up the same kind of entrance at the park I'm sure it would deter people from just dropping into it.
> 
> They even make you watch a short video at Six Flags before you can buy a speed pass. Resorts should at least consider something like that when they're selling a park pass.
> 
> And the park that I'm talking about is large features only. Most of the jumps require you to drop 200+ feet to clear. No 9 year old kids are hitting anything like that but they do like to walk up them or jump off 4 feet up the side. And there are dozens of them...if you wanted to wait till they all got out of the way you'd literally stand there all day before it was clear. Something has got to be done.


definitely sounds like something needs to be done there. I think i'd say something if their was a bunch of little kids blocking a feature. I don't think I could help myself.


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## Technine Icon (Jan 15, 2009)

I don't want an educational video or course because that just takes to much time and gets annoying every time. I know it's impossible, but the only way the park would be good is if everyone learns about the ettiquiete and uses it. Mt. Snow has gotten over this problem by turning one of their peaks into a whole park and this works because everyone over there is there for the park and don't just happen to have taken that trail.


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## Guest (Mar 1, 2009)

Yeah I think the suggested alternatives are just as bad. A video to watch or a seperate park pass? Which would prob cost more $$?

I think they just need the parks staffed. So someone in authority can tell the kids / parents not to stand in the middle of traffic.


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## jmacphee9 (Nov 11, 2008)

Extremo said:


> What do you think? Should anyone be aloud to ride in the park regardless of ability? Or should there be limitations like a park pass?
> 
> Personally I'm sick of seeing kids that can't hit any feature in the park walking up jumps on ski's, moms standing on the knuckle of the jump watching their kid ride up and over a lip, and kid's on vacation bombing through the park cutting you off forcing you to stop short of hitting a large jump.


how do you ever learn then? if the mt had a beginners park it would be understandable but if not then it would just be impossible for people to get into park, not everyone is going to build a back yard park to start..


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## Guest (Mar 1, 2009)

Definitely against restricting parks. Most hills now have at least 2 areas, one for more beginners and one for advanced. I think all they really need is a ski/board patrol to push the morons along who are jamming up the lines and scamming peoples terrain. I noticed too that some places have benches set up at the start of park so it's a designated place to sit and chill and wait for others or waste time or whatever.


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## max_tm (Dec 7, 2008)

That's strange... I'm pretty sure most of the big parks in Ontario have some kind of waiver/safety video dealie you have to go through to get a "park pass" (I had one for blue mountain many years ago but haven't bothered since, so I'm not sure how many places have adopted this policy, I'm pretty sure a few?)


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## jmacphee9 (Nov 11, 2008)

max_tm said:


> That's strange... I'm pretty sure most of the big parks in Ontario have some kind of waiver/safety video dealie you have to go through to get a "park pass" (I had one for blue mountain many years ago but haven't bothered since, so I'm not sure how many places have adopted this policy, I'm pretty sure a few?)


blue requires helmets and a 10$ pass now.


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## Extremo (Nov 6, 2008)

jmacphee9 said:


> how do you ever learn then? if the mt had a beginners park it would be understandable but if not then it would just be impossible for people to get into park, not everyone is going to build a back yard park to start..


We have an extensive mini park. There are expert terrain signs everywhere and even a large parental advisory sign in the middle of the park entrance. Noone gives a shit. They treat it the same way as the beginner hill, just to stroll through and play around on. 

Large parks should have restrictions. If you can't hit any of the features then why should you be in there. All these idiots are doing is being in the way. And I have no problem with people not hitting anything if they go through the park without stopping so those of us who are hitting the features can keep our lines without having to avoid people who are just strolling through.

I guess it's like basketball, if you're playing 5 on 5 full court but you have little kids running around the court, arent you going to tell the kids to get lost.


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## Guest (Mar 1, 2009)

Extremo said:


> All these idiots are doing is being in the way.


And hitting the jumps to the best of their ability. I know for me I'm not good but when I went down to Snow Valley it was my first time seeing jumps at the size they had. I'm not about to hit one full on when the biggest jump I have hit is a little kicker or something for a rail. Of course I want to go up it though haha. I agree in the fact that it is annoying about newer people going over jumps a lot slower and whatnot but I think the good people need to be understanding too and wait. If there are kids in the way and doing nothing just give them a shout like hey move to the side or something and I can't see to many people turning back and giving you shit as long as it was done in the right way and not like hey fucking kid move your ass! Try to teach the kids that you see in the way about the right etiquet when you see them at bottom or when you go pass. Just let them know not to stand in way of objects and the landings. Might seem common sense for you guys but for someones 2nd time boarding it might not be so obvious they are in everyone's way.


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## Guest (Mar 1, 2009)

I think they should watch a video or have the park people watch them for a run and then tell them where there allowed and not a allowed. Like everyone should be allowed in because what if you were just learning but you should only be allowed on the small features. I'm 12 but I can hit the 20 and 30 foot kickers and make them so it would be unfair because I never would have learned them if there was a limit.


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## Guest (Mar 2, 2009)

I voted for the video. Having to pass a riding evaluation would be annoying... think of how many people will want to ride the park on any given day - possibly hundreds. If you're not a local, there's a good chance you wouldn't even have time to take the test. A short 5 minute or so video on park etiquette doesn't sound unreasonable, but it'd be annoying having to line up and have your park pass checked at the entrance to the park every time you went through. The park staff would probably get lazy and just wind up letting anyone go through anyway.


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## AZred60 (Jan 15, 2008)

i think the way to do it would be to have some national thing like a certification to go in parks. the first time you want to go in the park, you go to like a 15 min clinic that teaches safety and courtesy. then after that, you are good to go for life, or a few years or something.


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## bakesale (Nov 28, 2008)

Snowolf said:


> You cant legislate common sense. All extra rules do is make it a pain in the ass for everyone. More rules equals more dickwads with little penises trying to push their authority around. Terrain parks need to be self policed by the riders. The ones who know what their doing and get park etiquette should be the ones to make sure the new park riders behave themselves.
> 
> Just being new or unskilled should not prevent someone from entering the park; they have to learn sometime; it`s just a matter of etiquette and courtesy. I don`t know any good park riders who get pissed off over a beginner just learning so long as the observe the rules and get through the park in a timely fashion and show some courtesy.
> 
> The absolute last thing this sport needs is yet another level of Nazi regulation.


I couldn't agree more. Snowboarding used to be all about breaking the rules. It used to be about being accountable to your peers and not the man. Regulating entry to the park is the worst thing they could do.


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## Guest (Mar 2, 2009)

[QUOTE=Snowolf Terrain parks need to be self policed by the riders. The ones who know what their doing and get park etiquette should be the ones to make sure the new park riders behave themselves.

Have to disagree witha wolfie

And how would you "judge" those responsible for policing the park and whether they have proper park etiquette skills? Its not the riders resposiblitiy.. this falls squarely in the lap of the resorts to educate and elucidate new and experienced riders. 

A terrain park or a halfpipe is not a shore break at a local surfing spot where the riders are territoral and hassle other users just because they are there.

I am trying not to put words into your mouth but asking the riders to police the park is a recipe for total anarchy. A park attendent should be there to enforce any rules, and enforce ettiquette protocol.

Who is going to listen to another rider anyway? they have no authority to do anything,except start a fight. Now a resort employee would have the authority to clip tickets or take passes and would have some credibility as far as being listened too or else.. Your pass is gone buddy.

When I buy a ticket at the local resort to enjoy myself I don't feel that I should be responsible for educating others about etiquette. Its the resort responsiblity.


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## bakesale (Nov 28, 2008)

oneplankawanka said:


> Have to disagree witha wolfie
> 
> And how would you "judge" those responsible for policing the park and whether they have proper park etiquette skills? Its not the riders resposiblitiy.. this falls squarely in the lap of the resorts to educate and elucidate new and experienced riders.
> 
> ...


It doesn't take long to learn park etiquette. Once a kid gets yelled at for blocking a jump or landing they are often scared stiff from making the same mistake again. You don't have to sit them down and have a talk, it doesnt take much. And most of the kids learn proper park etiquette by observing the other people in the park, the people they look up to. An ounce of education is worth more than a pound of restrictions. 

We already have a nanny state, telling us what we should eat, what we can't smoke, how we should behave and look what it has done for us, not a godamn thing except for remove responsibility from the individual. Suddenly its not the Kids fault that he got creamed for blocking a landing, its the resorts and the other riders. 

People are idiots, and there will always be accidents. But the last thing we need is another set of rules and enforcers. 

Please read my story of my experince with one of these "Park Enforcers" 
http://www.snowboardingforum.com/sn...4-ever-get-your-pass-pulled-4.html#post136865


Ski Patrol has no way of determining my ability level, or if I am in control while riding fast with my hands behind my back on a groomer, or that I am skilled enough to hit features in a beginner terrain park without needing to wear a helmet. They have no way of knowing that i've been riding and skiing for over 20 years and I know what the fuck i'm doing.


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## Guest (Mar 2, 2009)

bakesale said:


> It doesn't take long to learn park etiquette.
> 
> Sorry to hear about your experience. If helmets are required to ride the park them perhaps it should have been posted somewhere right? which leads to my next point. The rules are listed when you enter any manmade freestyle features. How many times have you seen someone stop and take a look at those rules>>?? in my experience never, not one person. I have no desire to enact more rules. I suppport personal responsiblity as much as you. Users should be resposible for knowing the rules and the resort should be responsible for posting those rules clearly and enforcing those rules when they are not adhered too. People should be responsible and accountable on that we agree, should not the resorts be held to the same standard? I certainly think so.
> 
> ...


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## Guest (Mar 2, 2009)

Wachusett mountain in Massachusetts charges $5 and you have to watch a video to get into the park. Its a small mountain with only one park, but they have many sized features and it keeps the little pizza skiers and 4 year olds out, works out well


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## bakesale (Nov 28, 2008)

oneplankawanka said:


> I don't that fear is the best way to teach a grom etiquette in the pipe and park by yelling at them, and watching other riders I would not consider the right way either. Whose to say that the rider he is watching knows shit about etiquette?


Because if the other riders don't fall in line and have proper etiquette they get their shit chewed out as well. Proper behavior in the park is not rocket science. It doesn't take much to observe that riders often line up to hit a jump, wait for a decent spacing between themselves and the rider before them, make sure they aren't blocking anything as to avoid an accident. The features are already clearly marked and rated to their difficulty level, it only takes a bit of common sense to know what is in the range of your ability level. It doesn't take long to learn, and we all did it.

We all had to learn somehow. I remember being a grom myself and trying to drop into a bowl at the skatepark, I couldn't have been older than 10. Did something stupid and dropped in while another rider was tearing it up in my path. I didn't get hurt thankfully but the guys at the park sure gave me an earful for it and I never made the same mistake again. 

Asking people to be responsible for their own behavior isn't asking too much. But asking someone to police others brings about a whole mess of other issues.


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## Guest (Mar 2, 2009)

bakesale said:


> Because if the other riders don't fall in line and have proper etiquette they get their shit chewed out as well. Proper behavior in the park is not rocket science.
> 
> I agree, I just don't see anyone politely bringing it to others attention. When I do see it someone is being an asshole like the encounter that you had. A properly trained attendant could accomplish in a nice way.
> 
> Asking people to be responsible for their own behavior isn't asking too much. But asking someone to police others brings about a whole mess of other issues.


I hear you and I agree for the most part I just think you are having problems envisioning someone doing it the right way. I like your idea about others learning from more experiecned riders, this is the way it should work in a perfect world, but as you have pointed out their will always be assholes. I would just like to think that the rules could be enforced without some egotistical douche gettin up in your grill about it.


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## bakesale (Nov 28, 2008)

oneplankawanka said:


> I hear you and I agree for the most part I just think you are having problems envisioning someone doing it the right way. I like your idea about others learning from more experiecned riders, this is the way it should work in a perfect world, but as you have pointed out their will always be assholes. I would just like to think that the rules could be enforced without some egotistical douche gettin up in your grill about it.


You are right, people don't act the way they ought to. They will be douchebags and assholes, they will break the rules and act dumb. Thats always been my problem and the flaw in my behavioral theories, especially Economics. I believe that we are all inherently rational beings and we will always act in the best interest of the self and the group. I am often wrong in this idea, but in principal it is the right thing.

My adherence to Objectivism, Capitalism, and Existentialism are in principal the correct way to behave, but people don't act this way. I even said it, People will always be dumb.


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## arsenic0 (Nov 11, 2008)

CWBurton said:


> Wachusett mountain in Massachusetts charges $5 and you have to watch a video to get into the park. Its a small mountain with only one park, but they have many sized features and it keeps the little pizza skiers and 4 year olds out, works out well


Yes just what i need..another reason for the mountains here in Oregon to rape my wallet..no thanks..i've already given them enough with 8 dollar bowls of chili


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## Guest (Mar 2, 2009)

don't buy 8 dollar chili, plan for it and spend the money to keep the parks safe and fun


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## AZred60 (Jan 15, 2008)

they should just try to make only one access to parks, and have it be a gnarly steep run. that would keep some pizza skiers out


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## Guest (Mar 2, 2009)

Snowolf said:


> Just being new or unskilled should not prevent someone from entering the park; they have to learn sometime; it`s just a matter of etiquette and courtesy. I don`t know any good park riders who get pissed off over a beginner just learning so long as the observe the rules and get through the park in a timely fashion and show some courtesy.


+1.

A park pass or some other sort of park regulation will stop lots of people from going into the park, possibly even experienced riders, but it will also stop beginners from ever trying to learn park. Of course they should try to stop people who are beginners at riding or parents with their knee high kids (I saw so much of this the other day. I even saw a parent holding a kid on one of those ski leashes on an all park mountain), but a park pass is a bad idea.

It might not be such a bad idea to have a gate with a park attendant before the entrance to the park to make sure people know what they are getting into. Like, letting parents know that this slope is not a good learning slope, that there are people who will be riding at high speeds etc, and making sure people know what they want before they go into a park with large features.


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## Guest (Mar 2, 2009)

Extremo said:


> Something has got to be done.


what have you done about it so far? with respect, starting a thread on a snowboarding board to rant about it is preaching to the choir.

have you talked to the terrain park crew in the park to which you refer? if not, have you asked to speak to the terrain park manager at the resort and ask him/her why they're not policing that park better? you could find a mountain safety employee and direct them to the park on bad days. finally, you could ask to talk to the risk manager at the resort. you could do all of the above.

do you ever stop to talk to the parents you describe? how do you engage with them? i'm sure you could be doing some useful education if yuo stop and politely explain why what they are doing is inadvisable and dangerous.

alasdair


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## arsenic0 (Nov 11, 2008)

Snowolf said:


> Another problem with this idea is that it adds another layer of enforcement chaos. What does this park monitor do when someone breaks the rules? Does he or she chase the person through the park creating additional hazards for other riders the way police chases endanger other motorists? I just see this as making an occasional irritation into a real cluster fuck that ruins the overall environment that gives snowboarding it`s appeal.


Coming at you live on KGW Northwest News, there is a high speed snowboarding chase currently unfolding at Mount Hood. Apparently this criminal snowboarder was spotted robbing a jump from a skier. We will keep you up to date!


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## Guest (Mar 2, 2009)

arsenic0 said:


> Coming at you live on KGW Northwest News, there is a high speed snowboarding chase currently unfolding at Mount Hood. Apparently this criminal snowboarder was spotted robbing a jump from a skier. We will keep you up to date!


Snowolf is at it again.


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## Flick Montana (Jul 9, 2007)

Snowolf said:


> Another problem with this idea is that it adds another layer of enforcement chaos. What does this park monitor do when someone breaks the rules? Does he or she chase the person through the park creating additional hazards for other riders the way police chases endanger other motorists?


Strategically positioned snipers.


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## Gnarly (Mar 12, 2008)

I don't see what all the fuss is about. I've ridden Keystone's Area-51 on a Saturday when it's jam packed and even though the gapers &/or little kids are blocking some features, it's not like they are out there blocking EVERY feature. So you have to skip a box or a jump on your way down. Big deal. Skip em, yell at the person blocking them or stop and explain to them that they are in danger of getting hit, sprayed, or worse - getting their ass kicked.

Remember that once upon a time, you were a noob too and didn't understand proper park ediquette. I'm sure that when you learned park, you blocked features and stood ontop of the jumps chattin' with your buddies. Unless you're a pro, I'm sure there are people that get upset with you for going too slow on features or doing other stupid things on the mountain still.

I know that when I approach new features/jumps, I don't haul balls over em the 1st time. I go slow and check out the jump/feature 1st to see what I'm getting myself into. Anyone that hauls ass on/off something they've never done before is asking to get hurt.

Besides, we all had to learn park ediquette one way or another. When you're older, it's common sense...But kids are very excited/nervous hitting the features, so of course they're going to block the paths. They don't realize they're doing it. It's not like they purposely decided that they were going to ruin everyone else's day in the park.

Like I said before in other parts of the forum, if an adult is blocking the features - spray the hell out of em or yell at em cause they should know better. If it's a kid - step off your high horse and take the time to talk to them and explain the way the system works. If you are a parent - teach your kids proper park ediquette.

Sure, it would be nice to have no one block the features ever. But unless you're living on cloud 9, or just happen to be in the park on a day where no one else is there (I've ridden parks that were empty before), no matter what you do, blocked features are going to happen.


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## zakk (Apr 21, 2008)

Defy said:


> I think they just need the parks staffed. So someone in authority can tell the kids / parents not to stand in the middle of traffic.


this is an excellent idea. they have ski partol everywhere except the place built to hurt you  :laugh:


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## killclimbz (Aug 10, 2007)

I think that there should be parks that everyone can access. I don't see the need for the beginner/intermediate riders to have to prove themselves to access those parks. You got to start somewhere. Self policing should do the trick.

For the big boy parks, I have no problems with them restricting access. These are the parks where you can get seriously jacked up and had better follow etiquette. Winterpark has their "Dark Territory" park and those jumps are serious. I would die hitting one of those. If you are a person who wants to ride in it, all you have to do is watch a video, going over basic park etiquette and letting you know the next stop could be the morgue. Then all you have to do is sign a waiver and you're golden. 

I think that is a prudent step to ensure that these types of parks can exist. If you have to start paying extra for it, then it's bs...


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## Guest (Mar 2, 2009)

For the big boy parks, I have no problems with them restricting access. These are the parks where you can get seriously jacked up and had better follow etiquette. Winterpark has their "Dark Territory" park and those jumps are serious. I would die hitting one of those. If you are a person who wants to ride in it, all you have to do is watch a video, going over basic park etiquette and letting you know the next stop could be the morgue. Then all you have to do is sign a waiver and you're golden. 

I think that is a prudent step to ensure that these types of parks can exist. If you have to start paying extra for it, then it's bs...[/QUOTE]


Sounds reasonable.....ya Dag :cheeky4::cheeky4:


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## Grizz (Nov 10, 2008)

I voted option two. 

It's only a matter of time before a four year old is killed, because mommy or daddy thought it would be a good idea for them to wedge over a table top.

It's pretty simple. If you can't keep your skis parallel you have no business in the superpipe or going off tabletops. For riders if you can't clear the knuckle stay off the table. 

Take it to the smallest features until you loose the wedge or feel comfortable with the hang time needed to clear the knuckle.

Requiring a free pass after watching a video on park etiquette would help this issue. It would also give a chance to educate on more general slope douchebaggery (responsibility code). As long as you have a captive audience you should use the opportunity.


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## Music Moves (Jan 23, 2009)

Extremo said:


> We have an extensive mini park. There are expert terrain signs everywhere and even a large parental advisory sign in the middle of the park entrance. Noone gives a shit. They treat it the same way as the beginner hill, just to stroll through and play around on.
> 
> Large parks should have restrictions. If you can't hit any of the features then why should you be in there. All these idiots are doing is being in the way. And I have no problem with people not hitting anything if they go through the park without stopping so those of us who are hitting the features can keep our lines without having to avoid people who are just strolling through.
> 
> I guess it's like basketball, if you're playing 5 on 5 full court but you have little kids running around the court, arent you going to tell the kids to get lost.


This is a good post, especially the basketball analogy... but it should maybe be enforced even more so in a park than on the b-ball court... kids can get hurt a lot worse in parks.

The only problem is, there's usually a place where the kids can do the same thing the 'big boys' do when playing basketball.

I definitely agree that everybody deserves the opportunity to learn.


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## Guest (Mar 2, 2009)

I don't think vids or an entry test is needed. However, it'd be nice if the mountain's staff and ski patrols would get up there and do their jobs. They shouldn't just be looking for kids smoking in the woods and going down all their favorite runs, they should also be patrolling the park and letting people know they're being idiots. I personally think that all parks should adopt the "helmet only" rule for people under 18. That would keep A LOT of the tourist little kids out of there. Once a person is 18, I think it should be their choice, but it would be a nice deterrent while kids are still young. God knows the park at Keystone could use this rule.


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## Extremo (Nov 6, 2008)

alasdairm said:


> what have you done about it so far? with respect, starting a thread on a snowboarding board to rant about it is preaching to the choir.
> 
> have you talked to the terrain park crew in the park to which you refer? if not, have you asked to speak to the terrain park manager at the resort and ask him/her why they're not policing that park better? you could find a mountain safety employee and direct them to the park on bad days. finally, you could ask to talk to the risk manager at the resort. you could do all of the above.
> 
> ...


I know most of the park crew and we've all had our rants about it but they've fought to get most of the stuff they have so they dont want to make any more of a fuss. If parents have kids that are in the way I'll usually yell at them and they'll stay out of the park after that. If there are older kids in the park who are stopping on landings I'll yell at them and they don't usually come back. But most days there are just too many people to keep yelling at. 

Im surprised that so many people think its ok for people who have no intention of riding the features in the park to be riding through it. It isn't the only trail on the mountain. There are literally 50+ other options. And the worst part is these people (not only kids) aren't even good enough to ride the mini parks and here they are in the large park.


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## bakesale (Nov 28, 2008)

Ok guys I think I just thought of a solution to this problem. Some people think its a good idea to restrict park usage or make safety education mandatory, or even require helmets. And other think this is hogwash.

What if Mountains set policies making person under 16 restricted from Terrain Park access unless they are wearing helmets and listen to a brief safety demonstration by ski patrol every new day they ride. That way it will keep the groms and other riders who present dangers to themselves and others OUT, limit the teenagers who cause trouble in the park, and keep it to people who are serious about their riding. If the person has a seasons pass, they can put a sticker on their pass to show that they listened to the demonstration.

Adults are rational enough to make their own decisions regarding safety, they also should be experienced enough to understand the dangers and risks. But if they restrict kids or make it harder for them to just get in the park willy nilly then it might solve some of the problems we all encounter.

Just stick a Nazi at the park gates to enforce this and it should be all right.


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## legallyillegal (Oct 6, 2008)

adults are dumbasses as well

either way, they paid for a ticket/pass, and the area isn't closed


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## Guest (Mar 3, 2009)

bakesale said:


> Ok guys I think I just thought of a solution to this problem. Some people think its a good idea to restrict park usage or make safety education mandatory, or even require helmets. And other think this is hogwash.
> 
> What if Mountains set policies making person under 16 restricted from Terrain Park access unless they are wearing helmets and listen to a brief safety demonstration by ski patrol every new day they ride. That way it will keep the groms and other riders who present dangers to themselves and others OUT, limit the teenagers who cause trouble in the park, and keep it to people who are serious about their riding. If the person has a seasons pass, they can put a sticker on their pass to show that they listened to the demonstration.
> 
> ...



One at the entrance. One at the exit. both with radios. No chasing, no messing with the flow.

Address the offender with a smile and copy of the rules and etiquette and send them on their way.'

No dramas, no Nazi like behaviour. Safety is the issue here, and most rational people if approached and spoken to in a non threatening way will respond positively.

SAFETY, FUN AND LEARNING.


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## Guest (Mar 3, 2009)

everyone needs to start somewhere.. i know i picked it up pretty quickly, but those first times working it on a green, then blue, all the way to blacks was intimidating (also sick)... everyone has to fall sometimes, and i know it's frustrating but if everyone stays in their comfort area until they're really REALLY ready to step it up, i think it'll be okay.. and i'll gladly dodge them if i need to.


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## Guest (Mar 3, 2009)

they only thing with ages is its kinda hard to tell whos 16 vs whos 17 esp when ppl are rocking helmets, googles etc.


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## Grizz (Nov 10, 2008)

I've been giving this more thought. 

Here's a simple way of thinning the herd. Focus on park design to naturally select for riders advanced enough to properly use it. 

Design the medium and larger parks with a huge first hill at the entrance to the park. Many superpipes are designed this way. 

You would have to have the ability to carry enough speed to crest the hill to enter the park. Then run fencing from the top of the monster hill down the sides of the park. You wouldn't want anyone sneaking in from the sides.

The people causing a problem wouldn't be able to make it to the top, and most would be too lazy to take off their board or skis and walk up. More so if there was an easy beginner park near by with an easy entrance.

No policing, no extra employees, no park video, no park pass involved. It's would be a passive way of dealing with the problem.


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## AZred60 (Jan 15, 2008)

Grizz said:


> I've been giving this more thought.
> 
> Here's a simple way of thinning the herd. Focus on park design to naturally select for riders advanced enough to properly use it.
> 
> ...



i already said that a few pages ago, but i agree with you. but you know late in the season, all the gapers tryin to brave that run would make it hella icy


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## Guest (Mar 4, 2009)

AZRed. Grizz whoever came up with this, I like it.. good stuff. I think the resorts would like it too.


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## Grizz (Nov 10, 2008)

AZred60 said:


> they should just try to make only one access to parks, and have it be a gnarly steep run. that would keep some pizza skiers out


And there it is. It was so short I think I skimmed over it or was thinking by "run" you were refering to the steepness of the park, not the hill leading into it. 

Anyway, added a few details of my own.


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## Guest (Mar 4, 2009)

first off, anyone will get to ride if they buy a ticket, resorts are trying to make money, IMO im sure they dont give a shit what level of rider you are, as long as you fork over the dough for a ticket. as far as kids, ive seen some pretty damn good little groms killin it and some adults that just suck balls.

Second, theres no way around it, so what i do when someone sits in front of jibs or jumps, spray the shit out of them, then tell them what they are doing wrong nicely, then hop back on the lift and hit it up again


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## Technine Icon (Jan 15, 2009)

CWBurton said:


> Wachusett mountain in Massachusetts charges $5 and you have to watch a video to get into the park. Its a small mountain with only one park, but they have many sized features and it keeps the little pizza skiers and 4 year olds out, works out well


Yeah, this works, but the park there isn't very good anyways.


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## Guest (Mar 4, 2009)

I think at Winter Park you have to pay $20/season to enter the most technical park and watch video/sign release, but that's only one park and I've never been to WP...


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## Technine Icon (Jan 15, 2009)

Snowolf said:


> I don`t know any good park riders who get pissed off over a beginner just learning so long as the observe the rules and get through the park in a timely fashion and show some courtesy.


This is so true. That smart style rule "respect gets respect" is very true. I'd never make fun of or get mad at someone who is trying to learn, but is respectful of the better riders. However, I have no problem making fun of or getting mad at someone who has no ettiquite.


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## AZred60 (Jan 15, 2008)

i think it is a safety matter more than anything else. its one thing if you miss a hit because a skier pizzas in front of you. its another thing if you land on his face because he didnt know not to stop on the landing. i totally agree with the helmet thing, for minors at least. its a tough call because no one wants more rules, but at the same time, i have seen mtns getting more and more crowded every year. i dunno if you would all agree but that is what i have seen, and i have been at it for about 15 seasons. we have all had close calls, and chances are, if you are on this thread it wasnt your fault. i personally actually landed on a kid a few years back in santa fe. good thing it was only his legs, and he wasnt hurt except for some bruising, but honestly i hope he learned his lesson. i had no way of seeing him or knowing he was there. plus he wasnt even trying to make himself visable, he was laying down. wtf. i know at the mountain i work at, they watch people on the bunny hill, and if they arent ready to take the advanced lift, the liftee will say something (the only green that comes down my mtn besides the bunny hill is a catwalk about 8-10feet wide). its for safety and common ccurtousy. i dont want anymore rules either, but on the other hand, i would be willing to give 10 min, or hit a steep to get to the park, in order to feel safer about being in the park for myself and my fellow riders. we have to remember also that less people edge-sliding the landings and rolling slowly over the lips means the features will be in better shape for the rest of us.

for snowolf: i.e. the landing after that dam first box at sunrise


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## Fitzy (Feb 6, 2009)

i think that people should get a park pass but it should be free after watching a video/taking a test. also kids should only do it if they are actually going to use the features and not sit there and chill


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## Guest (Mar 4, 2009)

Second, theres no way around it, so what i do when someone sits in front of jibs or jumps, spray the shit out of them, then tell them what they are doing wrong nicely, then hop back on the lift and hit it up again [/QUOTE]


And if someone of authority sees you exibiting such behaviour, YOU will have you pass clipped; not the halfwit standing in the way.

I do believe in riders regulating etiqutte in a perfect world, but come on our society is sick. And the world we live in is hardly perfect.

An even handed postive approach to enforcement as opposed to a ham fisted negative approach. 

Why not skip the spraying and go with the second part... I am with ya.


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## Guest (Mar 4, 2009)

oneplankawanka said:


> And if someone of authority sees you exibiting such behaviour, YOU will have you pass clipped; not the halfwit standing in the way.
> 
> I do believe in riders regulating etiqutte in a perfect world, but come on our society is sick. And the world we live in is hardly perfect.
> 
> ...


because its fun to spray people that are in the way  its just snow, have some fun, no park staff have said anything to me and trust me they have seen me spray the hell out of idiots sitting in front of jumps and jibs. and i bet im sure as hell that each person i sprayed and talked to never sat in the way again


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