# Let's talk about the footprint reduction



## morfologus (Mar 22, 2016)

Like many others I have problem with the heel/toe drag. I don't really like wide boards but I have a 11,5-12 sized feet.
If anyone has the same size and own boots with footprint reduction please measure the outer lenght, and write down.


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## Cinic (Mar 14, 2016)

I'm new here so you don't have to listen to me, but $1 says people will tell you to make sure you're in the right size boot. I wear size 12 or 12.5 shoes and my correct snowboard boot size is 10.5.


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## deagol (Mar 26, 2014)

Also, higher stance angles...


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## f00bar (Mar 6, 2014)

Ancient Chinese Secret. Foot Binding.


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## strycker (Jan 28, 2015)

Cinic said:


> I'm new here so you don't have to listen to me, but $1 says people will tell you to make sure you're in the right size boot. I wear size 12 or 12.5 shoes and my correct snowboard boot size is 10.5.


I don't know how that can be. I'm an 11.5-12 shoe size depending on brand and style and I bought a 12 DC Scout boot. I couldn't imagine trying to fit into a 10.5 of these. It would require a vise to get into it. They're tight as it is at 12. I was given a Burton Ruler in a 13 last year to fit out in Breck when I rented and was fitted.


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## Cinic (Mar 14, 2016)

strycker said:


> I don't know how that can be. I'm an 11.5-12 shoe size depending on brand and style and I bought a 12 DC Scout boot. I couldn't imagine trying to fit into a 10.5 of these. It would require a vise to get into it. They're tight as it is at 12. I was given a Burton Ruler in a 13 last year to fit out in Breck when I rented and was fitted.


I'd try to explain it all, but this lengthy thread delves into the specifics. It's worth a read.

http://www.snowboardingforum.com/boots/157737-snowboard-boot-size-web-tool-mondo.html

I was as skeptical as you when I saw my boot size on the sizer tool. Break out a ruler and see what it says.


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## linvillegorge (Jul 6, 2009)

strycker said:


> I don't know how that can be. I'm an 11.5-12 shoe size depending on brand and style and I bought a 12 DC Scout boot. I couldn't imagine trying to fit into a 10.5 of these. It would require a vise to get into it. They're tight as it is at 12. I was given a Burton Ruler in a 13 last year to fit out in Breck when I rented and was fitted.


If it isn't pretty damn hard to get into your boots, they're too big. Snowboard boots shouldn't fit like everyday shoes. Not quite climbing shoe tight but definitely more snug than typical footwear.

The one thing I'll say about low profile boots is to avoid them if your feet have a tendency to get cold. You reduce volume by removing insulation.


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## SnowDogWax (Nov 8, 2013)

Best footprint reduction is 32 Prime,


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## morfologus (Mar 22, 2016)

Thanks for the comments, but could someone write concrete outer dimensions? I'd like to compare it to my current boots.


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## bksdds (Jul 2, 2015)

Well burtons footprint reduction is just them beveling the toe and heel sole. I compared size 10 burton ion and 32 tm-twos. Exact same length. Height and width wasn't much different either. Funny thing is 32 had a greater beveled angle.


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

morfologus said:


> Like many others I have problem with the heel/toe drag. I don't really like wide boards but I have a 11,5-12 sized feet.
> If anyone has the same size and own boots with footprint reduction please measure the outer lenght, and write down.


Forget the actual outer lenght.

Go to a shop. Get boots that fit. Check boards at your binding angles. Buy board accordingly.

Smallest footprints are 32, Burton and Ride.

Size 12 you will probably need a wide unless you have full high angle fwd stance. Size 11 you probably don't need wide, with the 3 brands above and assuming you dont ride short boards at small duck angles.

Size 11.5... do what I said above.

Or you could assemble your database from the 2-3 people that give you lenghts in this thread. Buy online and save $30 only to find out your $900 of gear don't work....


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## morfologus (Mar 22, 2016)

F1EA said:


> Forget the actual outer lenght.
> 
> Go to a shop. Get boots that fit. Check boards at your binding angles. Buy board accordingly.
> 
> ...


I can 100% agree with you. I just wanted to find out is there significant difference between the boots' outer size. My current boots which are US11 fit perfectly well on my feet and I'll keep them if the footprint shrinkage means just a few millimeters.


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

morfologus said:


> Thanks for the comments, but could someone write concrete outer dimensions? I'd like to compare it to my current boots.


Hi Morf,

I f you have a minute please take a measurement of your bare foot. It is typically well worth the time and may just change your riding.

Please measure your foot using this method:

Kick your heel (barefoot please, no socks) back against a wall. Mark the floor exactly at the tip of your toe (the one that sticks out furthest - which toe this is will vary by rider). Measure from the mark on the floor to the wall. That is your foot length and is the only measurement that you will want to use. Measure in centimeters if possible, but if not, take inches and multiply by 2.54 (example: an 11.25 inch foot x 2.54 = 28.57 centimeters).


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## morfologus (Mar 22, 2016)

Wiredsport said:


> Hi Morf,
> 
> I f you have a minute please take a measurement of your bare foot. It is typically well worth the time and may just change your riding.
> 
> ...


I did it as you said. It is 288 mm. I don't really understand what come after this. I don't want to buy boots without trying them out.


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

morfologus said:


> I did it as you said. It is 288 mm. I don't really understand what come after this. I don't want to buy boots without trying them out.


Stoked. It is always worth checking that you are working with your Mondopoint size. Many times that is not the case. Happy to say that 288 mm does indeed upsize to 290 (size 11 in snowboard boots).

Size 11 is not typically problematic in terms of toe drag unless the board is quite narrow (at your stance position) or the rider's stance angles are near zero. 

Please let us know the board model and size that you are riding as well as your stance angles.


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## Phedder (Sep 13, 2014)

Seeing as you asked, I've got a pair of size 11US Ride Insanos lying around and they are 32.2cm sole length. 

What's your stance width and angles? When do you typically experience toe drag?


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## txb0115 (Sep 20, 2015)

Smallest foot print is Salomon F Boots.. 

Period. End. Of. Story.

They don't work for everybody though as the liner is fused in the toe box and your feet need to be almost identical in size because of the said toe-box liner they really don't pack out at all... They are a super unique boots, but if they do fit your feet they are the smallest foot print you can get...


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## linvillegorge (Jul 6, 2009)

txb0115 said:


> Smallest foot print is Salomon F Boots..
> 
> Period. End. Of. Story.
> 
> They don't work for everybody though as the liner is fused in the toe box and your feet need to be almost identical in size because of the said toe-box liner they really don't pack out at all... They are a super unique boots, but if they do fit your feet they are the smallest foot print you can get...


They're great boots except that they'll absolutely freeze your feet off when the temps drop into the teens and below.


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

morfologus said:


> I can 100% agree with you. I just wanted to find out is there significant difference between the boots' outer size. My current boots which are US11 fit perfectly well on my feet and I'll keep them if the footprint shrinkage means just a few millimeters.


You're set then 

288 is about size 11 which means most likely you're fine with normal width boards. I'm 283 and wear 10.5 on regular width boards. Size 11 is borderline though. A combination of for example +15 -15 on a 155 board or so may make you drag..... but normally, size 11 people are on longer boards so it is better.

Yeah the Salomon F4. Forgot those. The are super small footprint.


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## morfologus (Mar 22, 2016)

The fun thing is my 5 years old US11 boots without any modern technology have 32,5cm outer lenght. Compare it to the Ride Insano's 32,2 ...
Btw I ride a Bataleon the jam 161 deck, +/- 15° duck stance, the board width under the bindings is 26cm. And yes, I found disturbing the toe drag on icy slopes or deep snow when there is something under the edge.


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

morfologus said:


> The fun thing is my 5 years old US11 boots without any modern technology have 32,5cm outer lenght. Compare it to the Ride Insano's 32,2 ...
> Btw I ride a Bataleon the jam 161 deck, +/- 15° duck stance, the board width under the bindings is 26cm. And yes, I found disturbing the toe drag on icy slopes or deep snow when there is something under the edge.


Hi,

At 15 degrees you will lose ~ 1 cm, giving you an effective boot length of 31.5. So 5.5 cm of total overhang or 2.75 (a pinch over inch) toe and heel. 

On the barefoot side of things you have 28.8 adjusted down ~ 1 cm for stance angle to 27.8. Compared to your board width of 26 cm That is .9 cm toe and heel. That is pretty well ideal.

The difference between your mondo size (290) and your boot length (322) is 3.2 cm or 1.6 cm toe and heel. You will not improve on that in any meaningful way. 

As for the overhang, it is up to you what you want to do there. Many riders prefer to deal with a lot more overhang that you have to gain the benefits of a narrower board. Others will try to reduce barefoot overhang to a few mm. 

Also, binding choice can have a big impact on toe drag. 

Let us know what bindings you are riding and possibly post up some pics of your setup.


STOKED!


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## Phedder (Sep 13, 2014)

Yeah I also have a pair of size 10US Insanos as well as some Burton Rulers, the rulers are maybe 3-4mm shorter max, so getting under 32cm boot length total for a size 11 will be tough, and I doubt anything would go under 31.5cm or so at that size.


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## morfologus (Mar 22, 2016)

Thanks everyone for the helpful comments. I think I'll keep my current set up. The narrower board with toe drag gives me more benefits than the wide without that. My bindings are the Ride EX in xl size.


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

morfologus said:


> Thanks everyone for the helpful comments. I think I'll keep my current set up. The narrower board with toe drag gives me more benefits than the wide without that. My bindings are the Ride EX in xl size.


Sounds like you are on the right track. There are bindings out there that will give extra lift over your EX's. every mm in lift will have a significant effect on when drag engages. With a 290 Mondo size this is likely not something you would act on, but it is out there.


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## multikill (Nov 26, 2015)

I am also a victim of this issue.
I wear 28.5cm normally but when I went to a snowgear shop they told me my snowboot size shall be 27.0.


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## SnowDragon (Apr 23, 2012)

txb0115 said:


> Smallest foot print is Salomon F Boots..
> 
> Period. End. Of. Story.
> 
> They don't work for everybody though as the liner is fused in the toe box and your feet need to be almost identical in size because of the said toe-box liner they really don't pack out at all... They are a super unique boots, but if they do fit your feet they are the smallest foot print you can get...


Gonna reopen the story.
I wore Salomon F20s and F24s back in the day and they were impressively small footprint boots.
I got a pair of F4.0s when they first came out and the footprint was much bigger than the old F series. Did Salomon revamp the current F series to a smaller footprint?
I switched to Ride Tridents btw. They are a true small footprint boot.


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

multikill said:


> I am also a victim of this issue.
> I wear 28.5cm normally but when I went to a snowgear shop they told me my snowboot size shall be 27.0.


Hi MK,

What is your actual barefoot length?


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## multikill (Nov 26, 2015)

Wiredsport said:


> Hi MK,
> 
> What is your actual barefoot length?


My barefoot measured by burton boots size board(A board drawn with a lot of foot shapes) is 26.5-27.0cm

Never believe you experience in usual boot size.
Never "I thought or I remember my foot size is....".

Take a bare foot measure!!!


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

multikill said:


> My barefoot measured by burton boots size board(A board drawn with a lot of foot shapes) is 26.5-27.0cm
> 
> Never believe you experience in usual boot size.
> Never "I thought or I remember my foot size is....".
> ...


If I understand you correctly, you went to a snowboard shop and they took a barefoot mondo measurement and then worked off of that. This resulted in you dropping 1.5 cm (bot sizes) from your old boot size.  If that is correct, awesome. That shop did you right.


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## multikill (Nov 26, 2015)

Wiredsport said:


> If I understand you correctly, you went to a snowboard shop and they took a barefoot mondo measurement and then worked off of that. This resulted in you dropping 1.5 cm (bot sizes) from your old boot size. If that is correct, awesome. That shop did you right.


Definitely!
I always told rental shop 28.0cm before, how stupid I was. :embarrased1:

Btw, my new Burton Ion 27.0cm fits awesome.


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