# Gap to Box/Rail - Help



## GreatScott (Jan 5, 2011)

MeanJoe said:


> I need to just ride straight at it and the angle of transition/lip along with speed will carry me over the gap no problem.


Most features that have a gap are still ride on. Watch the feature though. If everyone is jumping onto it... you should probably do the same.

How to jump... wait till Snowolf or someone else chimes in, lol.


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## seant46 (Dec 8, 2009)

My advice would be to master the little park first, so its almost like doing it with you eyes closed. Although it will be intimidating learning bigger features no matter what it doesn't sounds like you are comfortable enough yet.

But hey, if you're ready then just watch some people first. Ride in with enough speed, *confidence and commit* to that trick! I always do my best riding when I feel like the board is a part of me y'know?

We cant really tell you a certain angle to take off for a feature we dont know what it looks like, I would just watch others.


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## Riley212 (Nov 9, 2011)

the most important thing here is gonna be your speed, then popping off the lip and then your balance landing on the feature. 

watch others hit it to gauge speed and see if they pop or "jump" off the ramp

your balance comes from your post pop stability, try doing jumps that are similar size and get very calm and stable in the air, not flailing your arms or spinning sideways. 

pop off the lip of the jump then bring your knees back up a little bit and keep your shoulders pointed straight down hill.

also you can hit the smaller features with more speed and practice landing on them rather than just riding on.


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## GreatScott (Jan 5, 2011)

And remember to stay loose and bouncy on your legs. Landing stiff and too tall leads to disaster.


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## Deviant (Dec 22, 2009)

It's always a good idea to pop a little off the lip just to make sure you clear the front of the rail/box. I've seen it way too many times that someone will come up short and take a hit to the leg or something from not getting the nose of the board over the rail/box.

Look at it like this, you don't need to land on the beginning point of the feature. That being said, if you're not comfortable jumping and landing flat based, I wouldn't go to the big park yet. This can still be practiced in a progression park if you don't feel ready. Try this on a small feature at first and have a friend spot you and tell you how far down the feature you're landing. 

GreatScotts advice is spot on too, you need to be able to adjust body and board, you can't do that stiff legged or tensed up


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## MeanJoe (Jul 20, 2011)

So I do agree, I need to be more comfortable in the beginner park's features before tackling larger and more advanced areas. In our main park, there are a few features that are very close to the beginner's park features but the difference is mostly the approach/jump and gap. My goal this year is to work up to those features and hopefully beyond that level. I'll be starting again tho' in the beginner's park.

It seems on some of the features in the main park that I'm referring to that each rider approaches them differently, some just jump others ollie and others make it seem like just a seamless ride-on. Perhaps I'm over-thinking it and it is just a lack of confidence and intimidation. Visions of the nose of my board not clearing the feature and my broken leg dance in my head! Haha.

MeanJoe


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## CalvaryCougar (Nov 3, 2009)

There are two kinds of rail ramps

Street style









Ride on rails











if its a street style rail you have to approach it from the side and jump up to it.....if its a ride on rail you should be fine to just ride straight up to it and ride on, or maybe add a little hop.... usually if there is a gap on the ride on you really need to just worry about speed and the ramp up to it should be dialed in to put you on the rail.... just dont go too slow!


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## CheeseForSteeze (May 11, 2011)

If it's a straight on feature with a small gap, just hit it with enough speed and you'll be fine. Check the approach to make sure it's good, because if it's been ridden out and needs to be raked, it could catch your nose and you'll eat shit and could possibly seriously damage your board. If not, you really just have to carry some decent speed and commit. Ride through the feature, not on it. Then once you 50-50 a few times start to style it out.

Some features are street style or you could pole jam them to some extent. Do those last.


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## linvillegorge (Jul 6, 2009)

What type of gap are we talking about? A standard ramp with a couple feet of gap? If that's the case, hit it just like a ride on feature. Just be confident, carry a decent amount of speed, and you won't even notice the gap.

Or are you talking bigger stuff? I ain't playing with any of that stuff that's like 10 foot gaps onto boxes or rails. No thank you. I don't play in the park much and that shit looks like a season ender to my non-park riding ass.


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## MeanJoe (Jul 20, 2011)

Wasn't aware of the correct terms for the various styles of features but these are not street style. We have those of course but I am definitely referring to ride-on ramps to rails/boxes. I found a couple pictures from last year's park set-up to illustrate what I mean.

In *.Page8.jpg - The picnic table feature, the gap from the ramp to the upper "table top" portion. This is the exact feature that freaked me out every time last year. I'd approach and then eyeball that gap and just bail on the feature.

In *.Page16.jpg - The box on the far right, looks to be about 2 feet or so gap before box.

In *.upper.jpg - The down box on the left, to me this appears to still be a ride-on feature not a street style like the rail on the right. Of the three, this one definitely screams "JUMP" to get up on and is not one that I'd be interested in tackling right now but is a good example of the types of gaps I'm talking about.

Appreciate all the comments/suggestions.

MeanJoe


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## MeanJoe (Jul 20, 2011)

linvillegorge said:


> What type of gap are we talking about? A standard ramp with a couple feet of gap? If that's the case, hit it just like a ride on feature. Just be confident, carry a decent amount of speed, and you won't even notice the gap.
> 
> Or are you talking bigger stuff? I ain't playing with any of that stuff that's like 10 foot gaps onto boxes or rails. No thank you. I don't play in the park much and that shit looks like a season ender to my non-park riding ass.


Definitely not the bigger stuff, I leave that to the young and limber! I just posted a few examples from my local park. Mostly 2 foot or so gaps, which really sounds sad written out. In person, inside my head, they are Grand Canyon of Doom To My Shins BIG!

MeanJoe


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## linvillegorge (Jul 6, 2009)

Yeah, those are just standard ramps. Those little gaps are nothing. Like I said, hit it just like a ride on feature and you won't even notice that gap. Be confident, carry a little speed and hit it.


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## IdahoFreshies (Jul 9, 2011)

that tier 2 picture looks nuts. Thats pretty far out of my level quite yet. But the page 16 picture, thats what im working on dialing in. Im about at the same stage as you, maybe a tad bit ahead. Clearing a gap like the one to the box is not as hard or scary as it looks. There was an angled c box last year, it was pretty high off the ground (5ft) and it had a gap about the same size as the gap on the box on the right. I was sure i was going to get hurt transfering onto it, it looked pretty dam intimidating. Well i go for it, and clear the "gap" no problem and first try almost get all the way around the c. So as long as you carry enough speed, usually the transfer does the work for you and sets you on the feature without really even needing any pop on your part at all. Not on street style rails, you need to do the popping. When trying those, clear the feature once or twice so you know how much speed and pop you need so you don't catch it and eat shit hard. After that it will be more comfortable to change your approach a tiny bit and land on the rail instead of clear it.


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## lonerider (Apr 10, 2009)

MeanJoe said:


> Wasn't aware of the correct terms for the various styles of features but these are not street style. We have those of course but I am definitely referring to ride-on ramps to rails/boxes. I found a couple pictures from last year's park set-up to illustrate what I mean.
> 
> In *.Page8.jpg - The picnic table feature, the gap from the ramp to the upper "table top" portion. This is the exact feature that freaked me out every time last year. I'd approach and then eyeball that gap and just bail on the feature.
> 
> ...


All of those gap are still sort of the easier "ride-on" variety compared to street-style boxes and rails which you have to jump at least 3 feet coming from the side. Ironically, I much prefer rails/boxes with gaps (even the last one) than pure ride on rails... because it messes up my timing if I don't pop onto the rail.

It sounds like you just need to work on your progressions, no worries... as you get better and more confident, even the last rail/box (tier2) will become pretty easy. You do need to be able to ollie/pop a "little" but really it just requires more speed. Here are the two main skills you need to master:

Speed control (basically in my opinion the MOST important skill in freestyle):
To safely increase your speed, you need to be very confident in your approach vector (i.e. the speed and the direction)... that means no sudden last minute skids or carves just before you go up the snow ramp toward the rail (actually this skill is crucial for jumps as well). If you are still doing that... stick to ride-on boxes in the progression (beginner park) and practice controlling your speed. Here's the way I teach people to learn how to dial in the correct speed.

In the beginner park, come to a complete horizontal stop about 5-10 feet (ridiculously close) above the terrain park element (jump, box, rail, etc...) with it in a straight line in front of you. For straight boxes and rails this is easy because the end of the box/rail will be hidden behind the front of the rail. If you can see the side of the end of the box rail, that means you are approaching it at an angle.

From that starting position, hop 90 degrees so you board points straight at the box and flatboard straight at the box and ride on and keep your eyes focused on the end of the rail. You will likely run out of speed... that's ok (I intended for that to happen), just let the board slide of the rail to whatever side it seems like you are going (or better yet do a little flat-based hop in that direction). Treat the box/rail like ice (because it is that slippery). Think about how you walk on ice (very gently with your weight directly over your feet).

Now... repeat this 5 feet higher up from the rail/box. You will now have a little bit more speed and will probably go a little further.

Keep doing this until you get enough speed to comfortable ride the entire length of the terrain element. The key part of this exercise is that you learn to figure out how much speed you really need to do a particular terrain park element... and you are very methodically increasing the speed until you find it. A lot of people start going super-high above the box/jump, get too much speed and do a big speed check and/or panic turns, which often either gets rid of too much speed and they whimper off the lip... or didn't kill enough speed and they explode off the lip out of control.

Later on, you can do a more advanced version of this... where you start out with a pair of big lazy linked turns which keep your speed pretty low, then you do a pair of medium sized linked turns which let you go a little bit faster, finally you do a very short and quick "swizzle" as a final speed adjustment (basically you just roll on each edge to find your balance point)... and then you ride flat the last couple feet of the jump (I'm assuming you are doing a straight air). The idea is to always be maintaining or increasing your speed from slow/medium/fast instead of medium/fast/super-fast/speed-check/medium(?)-fast(?).

Handling gaps:
Finally there is the ollie and/or pop. This is a whole technique on it's own and this post is already huge... all I'll say is that a good way to practice gap to rails is to ollie/pop onto a ride-on rail even if you don't need to... first see if you can ollie/pop from the lip of the snowramp to a foot down the rail/box. Then see if you can get a little farther... and then a little farther... once you can confidantly pop to three to four feet down a ride on box... you have the skills to do pretty much any gap to box terrain park feature.

Hope this helps.


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## MeanJoe (Jul 20, 2011)

lonerider said:


> All of those gap are still sort of the easier "ride-on" variety compared to street-style boxes and rails which you have to jump at least 3 feet coming from the side. Ironically, I much prefer rails/boxes with gaps (even the last one) than pure ride on rails... because it messes up my timing if I don't pop onto the rail.
> 
> It sounds like you just need to work on your progressions, no worries... as you get better and more confident, even the last rail/box (tier2) will become pretty easy. You do need to be able to ollie/pop a "little" but really it just requires more speed. Here are the two main skills you need to master:
> 
> ...


Definitely and thanks for taking the time to write it out. I still hit features slower than I'd prefer but with enough speed (most the time) to clear the end and not stall half-way down. Through trial-and-error I learned last year to be aligned to the feature and hit it straight and flat, pressing the board down flat and never, EVER, try to correct while on the box. One thing I did learn last year was to not do those last-second speed checks just before the transition. So I think I'm generally good on my approach, at least with the easiest ride-on features from both a speed and set-up (straight at it and flat base). I do like the idea of incorporating small ollies or jumps, even on the ramps without any gap. I'll start working on that.

Of course the other area I need to work on is just getting comfortable and staying relaxed/loose as I ride the element. Fortunately, I've mostly stopped myself from getting straight-leg rigid but I still feel... awkward. It seems to me I need to take these ideas back into the beginner's park for awhile, work on adding some pop on to the box and also maintaining a loose/relaxed stance through the end.

I'm an older guy, not looking to progress to being a park-rat and jibbing everything in sight but I want to at least have some basic skills so I really appreciate the tips/suggestions. Please keep them coming, every bit is a nugget for me to chew on and try to apply.

MeanJoe


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## Deviant (Dec 22, 2009)

MeanJoe said:


> Definitely and thanks for taking the time to write it out. I still hit features slower than I'd prefer but with enough speed (most the time) to clear the end and not stall half-way down. Through trial-and-error I learned last year to be aligned to the feature and hit it straight and flat, pressing the board down flat and never, EVER, try to correct while on the box. One thing I did learn last year was to not do those last-second speed checks just before the transition. So I think I'm generally good on my approach, at least with the easiest ride-on features from both a speed and set-up (straight at it and flat base). I do like the idea of incorporating small ollies or jumps, even on the ramps without any gap. I'll start working on that.
> 
> Of course the other area I need to work on is just getting comfortable and staying relaxed/loose as I ride the element. Fortunately, I've mostly stopped myself from getting straight-leg rigid but I still feel... awkward. It seems to me I need to take these ideas back into the beginner's park for awhile, work on adding some pop on to the box and also maintaining a loose/relaxed stance through the end.
> 
> ...


Joe I see you're from Columbus, if you ever head up north towards Akron hit me up, I ride at Boston Mills/Brandywine all the time. I know the Captial Park is better than ours feature wise but I just got word yesterday that they'll be installing a tow-rope for the progression park riders to get more laps in from now on and they have some really nice features to learn on here including small (low ollie) stuff that you need to get on from the side as well as features with similar gaps.

The thing we really need to stress is the speed going into a little bit bigger gap if you're going to hit it like a ride on. If you feel ready for the bigger stuff, ride up near the side of the rail (a good distance aways) and watch not only where other riders are dropping from but also the pop and where they are landing on it. 

Looks like Saturday at Mad River there's going to be a hiking set up with some rails so they'll probably have smaller stuff ready too, the site said they'd release the set-up details Saturday morning. We had a bunch of riders from there come here in October for our rail jam and they were all really cool people, don't hesitate to ask some questions if you go Saturday. We probably won't have any rails/boxes set up but are planning to open Dec. 17th.


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## ThunderChunky (Oct 1, 2011)

My most important tips for beginners:

1. You have to go faster than you initially think.

2. Stop leaning back, trust me you're flat based. 

and lastly 

3. If you think you are to low, get lower.


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## lonerider (Apr 10, 2009)

ThunderChunky said:


> My most important tips for beginners:
> 
> 1. You have to go faster than you initially think.
> 
> ...


Those are correct observations... but usually all three of those bad habits happen at a subconscious level, so tell them to "don't do this, do this..." doesn't work for most people. Here are some things I've found to work.

1. I agree that pretty much all beginners need to go faster... but once in a while, one person just "goes for it" and* goes way too fast* at a jump or box and either boosts out of control or catches their edge on the lip, wrecks themself, and gets sledded down the hill with their season over. Using the method I previous wrote, that will help people speed up in a safe and controlled way.

2. Most of the time they are oriented on the lip of the jump (or the sky) with their head looking upward, naturally causing them to they lean back. To fix this, I tell people to really focus/visualize the end of the box (or the landing behind the lip), this keeps their focus/head forward and angled downward along the incline of the slope.

3. Most people when told to get lower, automatically bend over at their back instead of bending at their knees - which makes them even more off-balance. I have people go through a variety of exercises to teach them to bend their knees - including having them actually sit down on their binding highbacks (to show how far you can really go down).


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## MeanJoe (Jul 20, 2011)

Deviant said:


> Joe I see you're from Columbus, if you ever head up north towards Akron hit me up, I ride at Boston Mills/Brandywine all the time. I know the Captial Park is better than ours feature wise but I just got word yesterday that they'll be installing a tow-rope for the progression park riders to get more laps in from now on and they have some really nice features to learn on here including small (low ollie) stuff that you need to get on from the side as well as features with similar gaps.
> 
> The thing we really need to stress is the speed going into a little bit bigger gap if you're going to hit it like a ride on. If you feel ready for the bigger stuff, ride up near the side of the rail (a good distance aways) and watch not only where other riders are dropping from but also the pop and where they are landing on it.
> 
> Looks like Saturday at Mad River there's going to be a hiking set up with some rails so they'll probably have smaller stuff ready too, the site said they'd release the set-up details Saturday morning. We had a bunch of riders from there come here in October for our rail jam and they were all really cool people, don't hesitate to ask some questions if you go Saturday. We probably won't have any rails/boxes set up but are planning to open Dec. 17th.


Thanks for the tips and I'll keep you posted if I venture farther north this winter. I've heard good things about Boston Mills/Brandywine, met a few people from there a couple years ago when MRM did the Rail Jam at the LC Pavilion in downtown Columbus. I'm a MRM regular but wouldn't mind venturing out to a few of the other Ohio spots this winter. It is just hard with such a short season here and a season pass to MRM to use up!


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## Nefarious (Dec 26, 2010)

Awesome thread. Thanks everyone who contributed (especially lonerider). I struggled with these same things last season. I'm going to take this knowledge to the park on Saturday and see what happens. Happy Shredding.


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## slyder (Jan 18, 2010)

ThunderChunky & Lonerider said:


> My most important tips for beginners:
> 1. You have to go faster than you initially think.
> 2. Stop leaning back, trust me you're flat based.
> and lastly
> 3. If you think you are to low, get lower.


These are some great tips and I will be putting them to use this weekend to attempt my 1st street style rail.

MeanJoe....any updates as to how things went :dunno:


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## MeanJoe (Jul 20, 2011)

slyder said:


> These are some great tips and I will be putting them to use this weekend to attempt my 1st street style rail.
> 
> MeanJoe....any updates as to how things went :dunno:


Thanks for asking. Unfortunately, here in Ohio we are still waiting for the season to begin so I have not been out yet. (The photos I posted were from last year) Hopefully my local hill will open up this weekend and I can get out for the first time.

Let me also express my thanks for everyone's suggestions. I was rather embarrassed with what I thought was a "noob" question when starting this thread. I'm really glad to see I wasn't the only one and that it was helpful to others in addition to myself and appreciate the advice and encouragement given. Turned into a nice little thread I think!

MeanJoe


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