# noob problem- toe to heel again?



## TXBDan (Feb 16, 2010)

One tip that really helped me link turns when i was starting out was to pivot/rotate your front knee in the direction you want to turn. So like rotate your front knee inward to turn toeside and outward to go heelside. Not sure how proper that is, but it really worked for me.


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## arsenic0 (Nov 11, 2008)

And once you get that down, atleast for me an easy way to learn to carve back and forth was to do the following(I ride regular, not goofy).
Also please correct me if this is bad form Snowolf you know better 

For toe side, push your shins into the tongue of your boot. This generally forces you to squat slightly so you dont straight leg it...and puts you on your toe edge. Then when you want to go heel side you basically sit your ass down abit more, which causes you to swap to your heel. Obviously the more extreme you do these movements the sharper the cut will be, eventually you kind of find an equalibrium where you just kind of go through each motion minutely on either side so it doesnt look like your standing and squatting going down the mountain


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## skip11 (Jan 28, 2010)

Also lift your toes up during heelside turns =)


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## anti-bling (Apr 21, 2010)

learning how to snowboard from reading posts is like learning how to play basketball from reading posts.

Do yourself a favor and take a lesson from a certified instructor.


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## arsenic0 (Nov 11, 2008)

anti-bling said:


> learning how to snowboard from reading posts is like learning how to play basketball from reading posts.
> 
> Do yourself a favor and take a lesson from a certified instructor.


You mean like Snowolf? LOL

Taking it with an instructor is good yes, but they are just going to say exactly what he says. It's not like going to an instructor they download their abilities onto you, they will just say the same thing Snowolf typed and tell you to keep practicing 

And if your doing something blatantly wrong they can assist you with it.


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## gamer565 (Nov 13, 2010)

These guys do a good job(imo as being a snowboarding noob) at explain things:
http://www.snowprofessor.com/


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## anti-bling (Apr 21, 2010)

arsenic0 said:


> You mean like Snowolf? LOL
> 
> Taking it with an instructor is good yes, but they are just going to say exactly what he says. It's not like going to an instructor they download their abilities onto you, they will just say the same thing Snowolf typed and tell you to keep practicing
> 
> And if your doing something blatantly wrong they can assist you with it.



Do you teach snowboarding? There are very good reasons for a beginner to go to an instructor over just reading stuff over the internet.

From what i've seen of snowolf's writing, he seems to be an extremely proficient instructor, and i would totally recommend him for lessons.

But on the internet, i can't see what the person is doing wrong, where their weight is, and how they are moving. A real, live instructor will be able to see and respond to the problem, not just talk.

And more importantly, they can demonstrate the 'proper' technique for the student, lead them through the movement, and give them feedback when they try it. We can't do that over the intertubes.

For advanced rides who have very specific questions about stuff, i think you can explain that pretty well just over the internet. But for beginners who haven't spent much time on a board, and may have trouble visualizing all the advice they are getting, i totally recommend that people like that just get a lesson.


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## Jeklund (Dec 14, 2009)

I think the main thing here is that we are not suggesting that the advice given here should be used as a replacement for a lesson but rather as an additional resource. Like you said, Nothing is going to replace the feedback a qualified instructor can give you in person. But asking about a technique, even if its just about linking turns can only help you out more when you go to the hill. Reading about the correct technique can help certain people visualize whats going on and i don't see how that's a bad thing. As arsenic said at least 80% of the time the average instructor is just going to tell you the same the thing and if you have already heard that its going to help you.


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## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

Imho, take lessons; but from a learning theory, you want to involve or integrate several approachs or pathways. Each person has their perferred way they learn. So there is book or reading...which is great to become familar with concepts. Visual seeing it done but you want a good example...and beginners usually don't know a good rider from a poor one. Auditory or hearing, instructions, e.g. "now swing your knee forward toward the nose". Also there is kinetic learning...by physically doing it. And there is the affective or emotional feedback/encouragement/support of pointing out what they are doing well...(don't point out what they are doing wrong...but what they are doing right/well and how they might improve) Anyway a good instructor should be able to present the general theory of how it works, how the board is effected by isolated body movement, show (visual) how this works; have the student practice the body movement (perhaps on and off the board), give isolated verbal instructions while they are on the board and positive vibes/stokage so the student can experience what success is (sometimes its hard to know when you are succeeding...example...when learning and it feels that you are going too fast...anxiety/fear takes over...so you slow down and don't have enough speed to link a turn and fall over thinking you failed...but in truth you are suceeding in that you need some speed to make linked turns...so the instructor can normalize or reframe the "anxiety/fear of speed" into that's normal and what you want...you need some speed...and then you just swing or drive your leading knee to turn)and thus can isolate/internalize the correct form/movement and experience the improvement/suceeding. I think a cool thing about snowboarding is that the feedback is immediate, i.e., crashing or shreding.

Some truth..."arsenic said at least 80% of the time the average instructor is just going to tell you the same"...the salient point is "average instructor (?=poor)"...but a good instructor will do much more than tell you the same thing.


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## ev13wt (Nov 22, 2010)

- Wear some wrist protection.
- You need a hill where your speed stays within your "fear level". So the flatter the better.
- If you are not relaxed, nothing is going to turn in any direction. So choose the proper hill.
- Never stand up straight.


What I'm saying is, if you are relaxed it will work MUCH better. Then just practice practice practice and always remember to relax.

Another tip I can give you is don't forget you are on a board. Let it do its thing. Let it turn in its fashion. Once you get to know that, then you can start controlling it.


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## mikemounlio (Oct 6, 2010)

I didnt read but the frist three replys. 

I was havein a hard time learning how to snowboard. A random guy told me to use my shoulers as a steering wheel. Make your lead sholder point to were you want to go. Within ten minutes of trying his idea i was makeing it down the hill without fallin. 



Its a good start but if it dont work for keep tryin


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## Ynosevi (Nov 4, 2010)

ev13wt said:


> - Wear some wrist protection.
> - You need a hill where your speed stays within your "fear level". So the flatter the better.
> - If you are not relaxed, nothing is going to turn in any direction. So choose the proper hill.
> - Never stand up straight.
> ...


What this guy said. Particularly regarding relaxing. I hate to say this (or perhaps I find it enormously amusing)
I've been down the side of a mountain a total of 5 times, 2 of which I was sober. I grew up skateboarding, but
was not by any means even moderately adept at it. First time slip sliding down the mountain I realized that the primary thing holding me back was fear. Most of the motions are verging on... natural? Things your body will just do if you have decent balance (perhaps slightly above average). Anywho... I did one more run (stand up, gain speed, freak out, bail/crash... Repeat til body feels as though it has been entered into a crash derby with no vehicle) then hit the bar at the lodge. Drank a little more than intended while they were grooming for night runs. I decide to attempt a couple more runs to get my moneys worth out of this experience, despite my inebriation (or maybe as a result of). First thing I notice, the ski lift suddenly doesn't bother me. This is an unusual manifestation because I am f$$$ing petrified of heights. Seriously had a conniption on the first ride up. Ending point and subsequent moral of the story... I did not fall down one time on my last 3 runs. I even did some intermediate stuff. Theoretically my balance and reaction time should be compromised by the whiskey/beer I had been guzzling... Didn't matter. I was so relaxed and non responsive to the sensation of speed (or at least not responding in the traditional noob way) that any reduced brain powers I may have had were rendered moot by my calm. It was literally one of the purest, and most intensely pleasurable experiences of my life, and while i highly doubt any responsible instructor would tell you to get loaded before dropping down the side of a 1000'+ slope, the lesson is still there. Relaxation might be more key than some people suspect when learning fundamentals. 

Ps. Have any of you here witnessed/experienced this phenomenon? Or am I the only one dumb enough to get liquored up on the first Snowboarding trip? I think instructors should keep a bottle handy for their meeker students.


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## Ynosevi (Nov 4, 2010)

Snowolf said:


> While fear and anxiety is indeed an impediment to learning and progression, it is also a survival instinct that millions of years of evolution has bred into all animals; including humans. Getting plowed and riding around other people is not the best idea in my opinion. Mainly because of how your actions and poor judgment in this condition can potentially affect others. Doing this will cause you to ride beyond your skill level and thus not riding in control. How this affects you is no one`s business and if you went out where there were no other people it would totally be your call, but if your lack of control means that you cannot stop, turn or otherwise avoid a collision with someone, that is a problem.


Absolutely. Drinking could spin an already inherently dangerous activity out of control in a hurry depending on the amount of consumption involved.

In my defense I will say that i became rather proficient at stopping early on. Unfortunately not until after I collided with a claimed snowboarding vet moving at what he extrapolated (with shaky data) to be well over 50 mph. I don't consider myself "reckless" in general. perhaps im even over-cautious, but during my 3 post whiskey runs I successfully dodged several people in a situation that demanded a much faster response time than the nasty wreck on my first run (in which I froze up and ineffectivelyy attempted to shout at my soon to be victim). I was not plowed, but I was definitely... Loose. In all seriousness if a student was of age and took a single shot of liquor I'd bet money that it would speed up the learning process. Blbut you are clearly an expert, and I'm just an over zealous drinker.


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## linvillegorge (Jul 6, 2009)

I love riding after a couple of beers, but I never ride drunk. Hurtling yourself down a mountain at a high rate of speed while drunk with multiple obstacles in route just doesn't seem to be a great plan.


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## J.Schaef (Sep 13, 2009)

I agree that riding loose (not drunk) could potentially help an intermediate rider, someone who has decent enough control.

Now, don't sue me if this advice gets you hurt lol. I too ride better after a couple PBR stops on the hill haha. Helps me really flow.

I find when teaching people to ride, that the biggest obstacle is relaxing. People are tense, and afraid of speed. When your body is tense, you aren't able to respond to changing terrain, and you catch edges.


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## unrachel (Jul 24, 2010)

I love the direction this thread went in :]

I think the last time I went being tense was definitely screwing me over- I was mad at myself for not improving, which killed whatever chances I had of improving. I noticed that once I made a tiny bit of progress, I was much happier and was able to progress much more quickly from there. So I definitely understand what you guys are talking about.


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## Lives2fly (Feb 8, 2010)

Only got 1 season riding under my belt but at least that means all the typical newbie issues are fresh in my mind!

I found my stance quite critical to slow speed torsional turns. If i remembered to push my knees out away from each other then the turns (particularly toeside to heelside) came off sweet.

I think its because it allows the sidecut to engage more effectively which seems logical. I'm sure someone can explain it better!

Anyway it really helped me so maybe it will help you.


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## lilfoot1598 (Mar 7, 2009)

Didn't you post once about having small feet? If so, did you ever get a softer board? 

I really struggled with linking turns until I was on a very soft board (in fact, the day I tried my park board for the first time is the day I started turning). Even now, I struggle on stiffer boards.


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## unrachel (Jul 24, 2010)

I do have smaller feet. I'm riding a ride solace, so its not a park board but it is for beginners. It has a nice thin waist and is fairly soft (I think).

Anyways I definintely improved last time I went, I can link turns no problem as long as I stay slow and controlled. 
My hangup now I think is just practice- I can't execute a toe-to-heel turn unless I slow myself down to a near stop first, and mentally go over my checklist of everything I need to do to pull it off. So I'm not very smooth or natural, but I'm doing it! 
I think its because I'm used to horseback riding, so my mind is completely conditioned to lean back when I'm going down a hill. So when I'm snowboarding, I have to focus REALLY hard on fighting that habit. Either way, when I fall I can feel what I did wrong now (usually I try to turn too soon or with too much weight on my back foot) so I feel good about it.


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## Sincraft (Sep 6, 2010)

ev13wt said:


> - Wear some wrist protection.
> - You need a hill where your speed stays within your "fear level". So the flatter the better.
> - If you are not relaxed, nothing is going to turn in any direction. So choose the proper hill.
> - Never stand up straight.
> ...


Well said!


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