# Tips for riding flat



## Mr. Right

Well I'm sure this is highly arguable but I don't think a board is ever completely flat on the ground. You will always have a little more weight on one edge or the other. Really it will just take practice. Get together with some good fast riders and watch them, but for the most part it takes practice and knowing your limits when it comes to catching an edge. IMO if you ride the board 100% flat, you will catch an edge. What part of the Rocky Mountains? If you ride in CO I'll be down to go with you.


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## Guest

I'm north of the border, up in Calgary, so quite a bit away from CO. It's hard to resist heading to the mountains when they're less than 2 hours away.

I was reading a thread on another forum, and people said they can ride flat, but I've tried, and I just don't feel in control. I'll just practice riding a lower edge. I'm sure my balance will get better with time.


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## Mr. Right

Well I was probably splitting hairs with that post but yeah, you can ride a board damn near flat, you just need to get comfortable with edge placement and get to know what's happening under your feet. I spent my first half season and all last season practicing going fast, getting confident with my edges, and getting hurt lol and now I rarely get passed on my mountain. Tricks and switch riding......that's another story :laugh: Just keep at it and you'll get it.


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## Guest

Yup. Think of those balance skateboards they have at science places. You aren't really riding flat, it's more like trying to balance between the two edges. That's where the control comes from. Try just riding straight down the hill for 10 yards or so every now and then during your runs. Like all things in snowboarding, it can be tricky when you first try but it because second nature in time.


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## PaoloSmythe

for flat basing, i would suggest a low (ie very bent knee) stance. 
your shoulders should be over the nose and tail of your board (ie in line with your board) 
and your weight should be centre balanced both laterally and longitudinally.
the best thing is to be loose limbed and relaxed. 

however, as suggested, there is security in maintaining at leat a tiny bit of edge and in any event, jumps are better approached with a little bit of toe edge, especially if you intend to throw a rotation.


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## Guest

*i ride on edge then switch to flat right before jump*

yea. i ride on my edge pretty much the entire time but when i go on jumps i go flat and center my balence at the last second


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## Nivek

Easy answer...get a Bataleon.

Hard answer...follow all the previous advice.


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## Zee

Don't forget to detune the tip and tail.


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## Guest

Nivek said:


> Easy answer...get a Bataleon.
> 
> Hard answer...follow all the previous advice.


HAAA you beat me too it Nivek.. Bataleon TBT will address many of the issues, good call nivek.. Suggestions.

For a straight air... In order to land in balance.. You should take off in balance. Go off the jump with a Flat board, weight centered may be a small ollie movement, and try a little retraction of the legs as you go off the lip *** bring the board up, try not to reach down to grab, If you are going to indy grab spot your landing, extend your legs to contact the snow and ride away. 
Again, I cannot stress enough the concept of going off the jump perfectly centered over your board and just relaxing to help you develop air awareness. So much of hucking is about comfort level.. Practice your straight airs this way.. relax and increase the difficultly of your jumps only after you have mastered the straight airs, and developed your air awareness sense, speed necessary to hit the transition, and you can take off and land in balance. 

A good progression would then be either to add an easy grab,(if you are not already) and then maybe a shiftie.. A well execueted shiftie with an indie grab looks real sweet when its done with style, and its pretty easy to learn.. just don't amp up the difficulty until you can do a straight air...taking off in balance and landing in balance. So Yes ride a flat board doing straight airs and not spinning.. but go flat just before the lip>> try it good luck, or come and take a lesson from me at Mt Hood meadows.. I 'll get ya straightened out!!!


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## Guest

Also you can play around with torsional flex by twisting the board when riding flat. Say for example said:


> I like this suggestion from the snowolf; This is technigue I use when riding long flat sections. I feel this is the most efficient and least energy consuming method. I also believe that this is the best way in regards to teaching from AASI manual.
> 
> alot of times pressing the front foot toes, or lifting the front toes works just fine, and does the job quite well. I especially use torsional steering when I am riding one footed.... and that may be all day if I am teaching noobs on buttercup!! (bunny hill at meadows) This is the best and most correct method. We teach turning from the bottom up feet, ankles, knees hips... Dorsiflexion and Plantar flexion...The ankle a classic hinge joint and these are the two movements it can make..(although it is capable of making rotary movements as well) want to know more?? just ask.


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## augaitis

Buy a Bataleon board! They come with Traction control


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## KIRKRIDER

Snowolf said:


> Okay, I was experimenting a bit while riding flat the last couple of days and paid really close attention to how I ride and then toyed with a few different techniques. What I found to be the most easy was to ride across the flats slightly on my toe edge. Normally this causes the rider to veer toward their toeside. To counteract this, I deliberately counter rotated my upper body by turning my shoulders so that my lead shoulder was over the heel edge of the board and I was rotated to face forward. This counter rotation of the upper body cancelled out the toe side turning tendency of riding slightly toe edged. I am not sure how AASI would view this technique, but it was very effective and I was able to securely ride for long stretches solidly on my toe edge across the flats....:thumbsup:


I did too..half a foot of fresh. knee bent, shoulders in line with the board, flat based pressing the tail just enough to lift the nose slightly and load all weight to both tail edges, which are so less prone to edging due to my whole weight on them....wich in turn helps the board cut trough traces and whatever the edge would catch.

Not a catch free solutiuon...but I noticed a clear increase in speed on flats.


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## Toecutter

I usually don't like to blame or attribute performance to equipment rather than skill, however I have found that board design actually does make a difference. On my standard camber board I have to make sure that I'm always on one edge or the other, otherwise the edges at the tip and tail will catch fairly easily and make the board unstable. On my rocker-camber board however, since the tip and tail edges have less pressure on them I can flat base pretty easily without getting unstable.


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## rasmasyean

This is a 2008 necro post by someone who wanted to advertise for Batalion prolly.

There are many other posts regarding flat-basing since then.

My recomendation has always been putting weight on lead foot and if you want to go through tuning, edge beveling helps (which is actually similar in form to what Batalion tries to accomplish in their base shape, except their "bevel" includes part of the base itself).


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## Deven

Regardless of why this thread was started it really helped me out. I'm at the point where my regular riding is decently solid and I'm working on switch but I also want to try learning so butters and what not and my mountain has a bunch of flat areas connecting trails. Some of them are fairly long and if I ride on an edge the whole time I will stop half way across it.... which has happened.... and i was the ass skating down the whole trail while skiers flew the hell past me.. Hahahaha. Snowolf, I really like your advice. I'm gonna give that a try next weekend when I head over to Bolton. Lets hope I dont catch an edge and give myself a third concussion since the beginning of the season. Hahaha


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## rasmasyean

You can also try *detuning the tip and tail*. Instructions all over the place with various "opinions" on how to go about it so I won't repeat it here. It's much easier than beveling.

My friend just did it this season after riding for like a decade or more without any form of edge tuning. And he said...

*"Huge diff! Easier to initiate turn and able to go flat without catching."*

And he did it on a Ride Timeless (a cambered door pretty much).

I even rode one of his other soft boards a couple of times (no tune) and I immediately noticed it wobbles quite a bit when flat basing. I ride flat so much that I can't help by notice it because it's just a big part of my riding. And I gotta tell you that although at "slower" speeds, I'm good enough to auto-correct, but at higher speeds, riding that board made me feel like I needed to keep on an edge (usually the toe, like Snowolf says).


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## arcticguerilla

*Edge catch argument*

This is funny cause I just got into an argument with a shop guy about what it means to "catch an edge". Coming from a physics background, I have a different insight to the issue and the shop guy was arguing from an experienced rider POV. I think (I know) the shop guy was wrong, but let I'd like feedback on my argument.

Here's my take...

Your body center of gravity is generally in the middle of the board. Generally, the board wants to spin around your body CG.

When you ride on your edges, your tip and tail edge at the contact points are restraining your board from spinning since they are dug into the snow. If something tries to throw you into a spin, your tip and tail contact points stop the rotation...like a boat rudder.

When you ride flat, you're board is free to rotate around your body CG. The bottom of the board and the snow contact is considered a "frictionless" interface from a physics standpoint. Therefore, if snow / box / rail hits your board edge at the tip or tail, and you are riding flat, there is nothing to prevent you from spinning about your CG and you can RAPIDLY go unstable QUICKLY and get thrown down the hill! Ouch!

Another interesting related topic...chattering when riding flat. If you are experienced and can ride flat and "feel" the edge catching and can prevent it, you have most likely experienced chattering when flat. Chattering is your board slipping and catching a slight edge very rapidly.

Chattering is similar to riding in bumper cars! Imagine going straight in a bumper car and there are cars creating a long lane for you to ride through. Your bumper car will slide side to side, hitting the cars lining the lane and keeping your car from exiting the lane. Chattering is doing the same thing. It's your board sliding side to side as you ride straight, but you are catching a little edge on each side of your board as you chatter down the hill.

Sorry for the long lecture. Good topic!

If you get into a crouch while riding flat, you'll probably be less likely to fly down the hill and more likely to chatter when you catch an edge.


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## Toecutter

arcticguerilla said:


> This is funny cause I just got into an argument with a shop guy about what it means to "catch an edge". Coming from a physics background, I have a different insight to the issue and the shop guy was arguing from an experienced rider POV.


I wonder what the philosopher says it means to "catch an edge?"


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## arcticguerilla

I don't know, but I know what a gangsta means when he "catches an edge".


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## arcticguerilla

*Gangsta*

I don't know, but I know what a gangsta means when he "catches an edge".


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## wrathfuldeity

arcticguerilla said:


> Here's my take...
> 
> Your body center of gravity is generally in the middle of the board. Generally, the board wants to spin around your body CG.
> 
> When you ride on your edges, your tip and tail edge at the contact points are restraining your board from spinning since they are dug into the snow. If something tries to throw you into a spin, your tip and tail contact points stop the rotation...like a boat rudder.
> 
> When you ride flat, you're board is free to rotate around your body CG. The bottom of the board and the snow contact is considered a "frictionless" interface from a physics standpoint. Therefore, if snow / box / rail hits your board edge at the tip or tail, and you are riding flat, there is nothing to prevent you from spinning about your CG and you can RAPIDLY go unstable QUICKLY and get thrown down the hill! Ouch!



AG..."Generally, the board wants to spin around your body CG." This is incorrect...the board doesn't want to spin around anything. It just wants to follow or go down the fall line; and the end (nose or tail) with the most weight will want to go down first.

However, the board will want to spin around your body cog...IF your body is twisted/rotated/loaded...but if your body is neutral or not rotated/loaded it will not have a tendency to unwind, thus spin. Therefore, the importance of good posture and alignment so that your hips and shoulders are parallel nose to tail. 

Also the board will appear to want to spin if the more weighted end is uphill...that is, if more weight is in the tail, the tail will want to swing around and go first down the hill. However, if the nose of the board is weighted more than the tail...the tail can only follow the heavier nose down the fall line. An easy experiment of this is to center a small 3-5 lb bag of sand on the front or back binding and see what happens. In fact a dumb bag of 5# of sand centered in the front binding, will go right down the fall line and won't catch an edge....and if you put the bag of sand in the rear/uphill binding it will swing around until the tail finds the fall line...take off switch and not catch an edge.

So...if you want to ride flat....and I mean flat...not slightly on an edge...have a neutral body alignment and slightly weight the nose...YOU WILL NOT CATCH AN EDGE irregardless if you are going slow, medium or fast. And the reason is...because there is no edge to catch. However you have to be loose in the feet, ankles and knees to allow the board to follow the fall line and ride over the minor imperfections.

Two reasons to develop the skill to ride flat based: 

First...if you are riding a really flat and long cattrack or traverse...you will maintain your speed if you ride flat based with a very slightly weight nose...riding on an edge will slow you down.

Second...if you are straight line bombing runs and your board seems to get squirrely...you are in the back seat...too much weight on the tail and it wants to swing around...WELL shift your weight to get on the nose and the squirreliness will immediately stop and you can confidently engage a slight edge...if you want to.


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## BliND KiNK

I really still don't get how you don't catch an edge doing a boardslide on a rail or box... I mean I've slid into boardslides and not caught an edge but I still really don't understand how I'm not hahaha... Once I completely lose that fear I'm sure I'll progress faster on jibs.


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