# Moving from duck to +/+ -- gradual, or rip off the bandaid?



## Donutz (May 12, 2010)

I'm going to be riding a new board this season - a Stranda Cheater - which really requires +/+ angles to get the most out of it. But I've always used +12/-9 since the day I started snowboarding, so I anticipate a bit of a learning curve.

I guess my question is: should I gradually change my angles, maybe by a few degrees every run, or should I rip off the bandaid and move straight to something like +31/+10, then adjust from there?


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## NT.Thunder (Jan 4, 2020)

I'd rip off the bandaid and work back if needed. I didn't go quiet so agressive, I went straight to 21/9 and found that was super comfortable and was what I needed for comfortable carves on the Surfari.


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## Craig64 (Jul 16, 2015)

NT.Thunder said:


> I'd rip off the bandaid and work back if needed. I didn't go quiet so agressive, I went straight to 21/9 and found that was super comfortable and was what I needed for comfortable carves on the Surfari.


That's Aussies for you......, go in hard.


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## WigMar (Mar 17, 2019)

Agree with the bandaid approach. Changing the splay between your feet a lot feels strange. I'd go ++ but keep roughly the same splay, maybe a bit narrower. Something like 24/6


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## Snowdaddy (Feb 2, 2018)

I'd start with +21-24/+3, unless it gives you too much overhang, and then go forward from there. Just getting that back foot over the zero is going to make a difference in body alignment. The Cheater is a barge unless you have it on edge.


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## Jkb818 (Sep 28, 2019)

I’m gonna give ++ a try with the Simple Pleasures.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## ZeMax (Feb 21, 2014)

Stranda Cheater ? 

Go straight to 36 / 6 and narrow it more then you think .


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## Etienne (Apr 2, 2021)

I went straight to 27/6 (probably gonna try 33/9 or something like that) on my Café Racer and didn't regret it. I went back to 24/0 on a pow day to have a bit more power and while it was cool for freeriding, but I think I was missing something for carving with more front foot driving and more forward body movement.

So yeah, I would advise going straight for it, especially since you are pretty experienced, you should manage pretty quick.


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## drblast (Feb 28, 2017)

Just doooo it.

And yes narrow your stance. Figure out what's comfortable in your living room first. It's a dramatic width shift because you're keeping about the same distance between your heels compared to duck.

Also that's another reason not to gradually shift - you'd also have to gradually shift the stance width and that's more difficult to do unless you're on a channel board.


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## MrDavey2Shoes (Mar 5, 2018)

Etienne said:


> u


I rode my cafe racer for the first time at 36/18 I think that was too far on the back foot. Had trouble getting the rear of the board to initiate on toesides. I think ill try 12

Edit: no idea why it only quoted that part of your post lol


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## JDA (Feb 10, 2016)

I went straight to +24 +15 on my Korua Dart after something like 15 years of some kind of duck stance. I think it took me about 3 laps before I forgot about how weird the back foot feels and started to enjoy the ride. Since then I now ride my Dart and Simple Pleasures with this positive stance, some of my other directional boards I prefer +21 -6 and I still ride +15 -12 on my twins. The only real downside for me with the double positive is jumps, they feel really awkward.


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## SushiLover (Sep 17, 2020)

I rode my Salomon Super 8 +27/+6 for the first time and wow those toe side carves are so clean. It took me two laps to get used it. I had issues on flats at slow speed. I had to hop a little to turn the board. I'm used to that back leg bringing the board around. Also when I tried to stop on my heel side couple of times, I lost my balance and fell on my behind.


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## Donutz (May 12, 2010)

For those who have gone from duck or near-duck to +/+, does the difference between your angles stay the same? Or do you bring the angles closer together? And do you have to bring the bindings closer together because of the stance change?


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## Phedder (Sep 13, 2014)

Donutz said:


> For those who have gone from duck or near-duck to +/+, does the difference between your angles stay the same? Or do you bring the angles closer together? And do you have to bring the bindings closer together because of the stance change?


I bring the angles closer together, partly because I'm not comfortable with a super high front foot angle. When ducked I generally keep a 30 degree splay, whether that be +18/-12 or +24/-6. Going +/+ I've ridden the most at +30/+6 I think, going over 30 on my front foot just feels wrong and uncomfortable, could certainly be a technique issue as I haven't devoted much time to +/+ as is but found going back down to +30/+6 enough of a benefit/change from duck without totally throwing me off my game hah.

Definitely bring the stance narrower, as @drblast touched on if you think of the distance between your ankles that changes drastically from duck to +/+. Shifting your rear foot to + tends to shift your weight back a little as your ankle/heel is now closer to the tail. For that reason I've always moved my rear binding 1 set of holes closer to the waist of the board and found that's generally enough for me, I should try bringing the front narrower as well.


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## WigMar (Mar 17, 2019)

Phedder said:


> I bring the angles closer together, partly because I'm not comfortable with a super high front foot angle. When ducked I generally keep a 30 degree splay, whether that be +18/-12 or +24/-6. Going +/+ I've ridden the most at +30/+6 I think, going over 30 on my front foot just feels wrong and uncomfortable, could certainly be a technique issue as I haven't devoted much time to +/+ as is but found going back down to +30/+6 enough of a benefit/change from duck without totally throwing me off my game hah.
> 
> Definitely bring the stance narrower, as @drblast touched on if you think of the distance between your ankles that changes drastically from duck to +/+. Shifting your rear foot to + tends to shift your weight back a little as your ankle/heel is now closer to the tail. For that reason I've always moved my rear binding 1 set of holes closer to the waist of the board and found that's generally enough for me, I should try bringing the front narrower as well.


Going much above 30 degrees on the front foot honestly felt stranger for my back foot. I like a little less splay, and angles add up. Once the back foot got into front foot angle territory, I had to take an adjustment period that was harder than going from duck to 24/6. I learned a lot by riding this way though. You have to drive the board a little differently.

Angles like 45/33 really let you carve deep on skinnier boards. I think the wide carving board movement is an attempt to allow deep carving without going extreme with angles like this. I can keep pretty relaxed angles riding Kijima's boards and still lay a pencil thin trench without any dragging. My Pentaquark requires some pretty stupid angles to leave lines as clean. I think riding wider boards with lesser angles is a more accessible starting point. I know I'm not headed into the trees on a skinny board with extreme angles either.


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## drblast (Feb 28, 2017)

For me the difference in angle closes up the further forward you go. The extremes are like +24/0 and +60/+60 like the old hard boot setups. Set up your front foot first then do what feels comfortable on the back. I imagine riding like this:











Definitely narrow your stance or it's going to be really uncomfortable and feel weird no matter how much you ride that way. If you have the correct width you'll only feel weird trying to jump or ollie and everything else will feel completely natural. Heel side turns will be easier than you've ever experienced.


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## Myoko (Dec 11, 2018)

One day I will actually try this both ++ concept. Until then I will continue to use it as an excuse for not carving like the guru's  and yes, my excuse doesn't have to be correct, but it's the best I got atm until I can think of something better


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## Craig64 (Jul 16, 2015)

drblast said:


> For me the difference in angle closes up the further forward you go. The extremes are like +24/0 and +60/+60 like the old hard boot setups. Set up your front foot first then do what feels comfortable on the back. I imagine riding like this:
> 
> View attachment 160488
> 
> ...


✨The Silver Surfer🌒


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## JDA (Feb 10, 2016)

I honestly wish I tried it sooner, as you get older and maybe you care less about freestyle and more about ripping some turns. The double positive has your body facing down the hill so your head is already looking in the direction you are going, its just more relaxing, less fatigue for that kind of riding. Absolutely terrible for jumps though, even smaller side hits feel weird.


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