# WTF base damage



## Timberline (Aug 30, 2012)

Sorry to say but it looks like the board is a Sintered base. So permanent repair with ptex is a no go


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## dubstatic (Jan 4, 2013)

i have a couple ptex repairs on my TFA and its been fine


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## bseracka (Nov 14, 2011)

Timberline said:


> Sorry to say but it looks like the board is a Sintered base. So permanent repair with ptex is a no go


Sintered bases are made from Ptex and more likely to to be successfully repaired (w/ptex) and welded. Sintered bases are also less prone to damage

Extruded bases- are also made from ptex and can be repaired and welded, the extruusion process makes it more difficult for them to be repaied. Extruded bases are more easily damaged due to the softer nature.

OP- it looks like you rode over rocks, or other jumk under the snow. If the core isn't eposed don't worry to much (you can razor off any hangers) and just get your board repaired at the end of the season. You'll get a lot more dings and scratches before this one is over. If the core is exposed do ptex the base (do it your self if your confident, or have a shop do it).


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## M.C._Dub (Jan 18, 2013)

Yeah it's a wax-infused sintered base - I thought P-Tex was a universal filler though? Damn I'd be pissed if this ended up having to be an expensive base grind and rewax after only 3 days!


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## dubstatic (Jan 4, 2013)

I would just make sure that one bigger ding in somewhat flat and just ride it. I have a few bigger gouges on mine that are almost to small to ptex and I don't notice any difference while riding


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## M.C._Dub (Jan 18, 2013)

bseracka said:


> OP- it looks like you rode over rocks, or other jumk under the snow. If the core isn't eposed don't worry to much (you can razor off any hangers) and just get your board repaired at the end of the season. You'll get a lot more dings and scratches before this one is over. If the core is exposed do ptex the base (do it your self if your confident, or have a shop do it).


Thanks bseracka. As far as I can tell there's no core shots, just a handful of gouges like the ones above - should I be more worried about the one that rides right up to the stainless?


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## redlude97 (Jan 9, 2008)

Shave the parts that stick up past the flat portion of the base and ride it. Those don't really need to be fixed. Contrary to what was written above, all bases can be fixed with normal PTEX candles. Sure those areas will no longer be sintered but it won't make a lick of difference. Clean up the edge burrs with a diamond stone followed up with a gummy stone.


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## M.C._Dub (Jan 18, 2013)

Thanks guys you've made me feel better about these small gouges. Sounds like p-tex will work ok so Ill ride it out for a while then tune and repair it all in a month or so. 

Side note - is it normal for the edges to look like that after 1 day of riding hard pack with 3" of pow on top? I know edges dry out quicker because they are in constant contact with the ground, but this seems fast to need a new wax. Base/edge burn or just normal for a sintered base?


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## ShredLife (Feb 6, 2010)

M.C._Dub said:


> Thanks guys you've made me feel better about these small gouges. Sounds like p-tex will work ok so Ill ride it out for a while then tune and repair it all in a month or so.
> 
> Side note - is it normal for the edges to look like that after 1 day of riding hard pack with 3" of pow on top? I know edges dry out quicker because they are in constant contact with the ground, but this seems fast to need a new wax. Base/edge burn or just normal for a sintered base?


those are all so shallow that p-tex repairs won't stay in them, they'll just pop out. just use a razor blade and trim off any shit that's sticking up, wax your board like normal and that's it. 

the gouges need to be deeper than that for a p-tex repair to hold.


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## RJRJRJ (Feb 12, 2012)

Looks like you rode over rocks. Ive had dozens of those. Ptex them up and call it a day. If you know how to wax, then you should be able to ptex no problem.


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## Leo (Nov 24, 2009)

Very minor damage...

As everyone said, just smooth it out. Shave off parts that stick out and give it a good go with a Brillo pad.

As for ease of repair, extruded bases are easier to repair. They are also more durable.

This is why most park specific boards are extruded rather than sintered.


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## bseracka (Nov 14, 2011)

Respectfully disagree- price is why park boards are extruded instead of sintered.

That being said, there are obviously varying degrees of quality in both base materials and a quality extruded will out perform a poor quality sintered and vice versa.


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## Leo (Nov 24, 2009)

bseracka said:


> Respectfully disagree- price is why park boards are extruded instead of sintered.
> 
> That being said, there are obviously varying degrees of quality in both base materials and a quality extruded will out perform a poor quality sintered and vice versa.


You can disagree all you want, but you're flat out wrong broseph. This is one thing I can comfortably say lies outside of opinion and into the realm of objectivity.

Rome Artifact - $390

Rome's base techs:

Base Compounds | Board Tech | Rome Snowboard Design Syndicate 2013

Notice how their extruded bases are the most durable. So I should have actually said that extruded bases CAN be more durable than sintered bases. 

The fact remains though... when you get a core shot, it's easier/less-costly to repair on an extruded base than it is on a sintered base.

Guess what type of damage jibbers incur most? Yup... core shots.


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## Lamps (Sep 3, 2011)

M.C._Dub said:


> Yeah it's a wax-infused sintered base - I thought P-Tex was a universal filler though? Damn I'd be pissed if this ended up having to be an expensive base grind and rewax after only 3 days!


Dude, you'll be running over crap all the time, as sugggested just trim any plastic shreds and ride. Wax will fill it somewhat. Once you've run over enough stuff that your board has lots of those nasty scratches in it get a base grind.


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## BigmountainVMD (Oct 9, 2011)

Yeah I've always heard that extruded bases are more durable, and that is why they put them on park boards. Sintered bases are faster (when waxed) and that that is why they are found on more expensive models... which mostly tend to be all-mountain and freeride decks.


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## redlude97 (Jan 9, 2008)

Leo said:


> You can disagree all you want, but you're flat out wrong broseph. This is one thing I can comfortably say lies outside of opinion and into the realm of objectivity.
> 
> Rome Artifact - $390
> 
> ...


What makes sintered boards harder to repair? Just epoxy and fill them with a candle. Unless you are a world class racer, you won't even notice that 1% of your base now being extruded compared to sintered. :dunno:


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## redlude97 (Jan 9, 2008)

BigmountainVMD said:


> Yeah I've always heard that extruded bases are more durable, and that is why they put them on park boards. Sintered bases are faster (when waxed) and that that is why they are found on more expensive models... which mostly tend to be all-mountain and freeride decks.


Lets clear up some facts. Generally for PTEX(UHMWPE), abrasion resistance goes up with molecular weight. The polymer chains that make up the PTEX are longer. Now bases can be made using an extrusion or sintering process, with most molecular weight PTEX. Extrusion melts and forms the PTEX so you usually get a denser product, while the sintering leaves more pores, hence the better wax absorption. Generally lower molecular weight PTEX is cheaper, and extrusion is a cheaper process as well, which is why you end up with pricepoint boards with low molecular weight PTEX extruded bases(fusion 1500 etc) while generally sintered bases use a high molecular weight PTEX. For the best abrasion resistance, a company will generally use a high MW PTEX extruded base. Denser, longer chains etc.


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## shralp (Jun 12, 2010)

Leo said:


> You can disagree all you want, but you're flat out wrong broseph. This is one thing I can comfortably say lies outside of opinion and into the realm of objectivity.
> 
> Rome Artifact - $390
> 
> ...




Incorrectomundo Leo. Sintered base material is harder by nature, thus more durable. The benefits of extruded are lower cost, easier to repair, low maintenance. Extruded is great for jibbers as they are more likely to need a base repair, but not because it's more durable.

"Sintering involves crushing polyethylene pellets together under high pressure. This causes them to melt together and fuse, and the resulting *sintered material is generally of higher density, higher molecular mass, and exhibits better abrasion resistance than extruded material*."

Extruded vs. Sintered - Become an Ace of Base - The-House.com

http://www.snowboardmaterials.com/pages/all_about_snowboard_materials.htm


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## Leo (Nov 24, 2009)

redlude97 said:


> What makes sintered boards harder to repair? Just epoxy and fill them with a candle. Unless you are a world class racer, you won't even notice that 1% of your base now being extruded compared to sintered. :dunno:


When you melt ptex into an extruded base, it bonds better because well, that's practically how extruded bases are made.

When you pour that into a sintered base, it doesn't bond as well because sintered bases are made by grinding ptex.

So what this means is that while you can do a quick fix on a sintered by using the same ptex melting method, the chances of it popping out are much greater than on an extruded.

The proper method to repair a sintered base involves a good amount of base grinding and reworking.

But yea, you can certainly use the PTex method and just redo it if it pops out. You're more likely to find it popping out in colder conditions or another hit in that area.


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## Leo (Nov 24, 2009)

shralp said:


> Incorrectomundo Leo. Sintered base material is harder by nature, thus more durable. The benefits of extruded are lower cost, easier to repair, low maintenance. Extruded is great for jibbers as they are more likely to need a base repair, but not because it's more durable.
> 
> Extruded vs. Sintered - Become an Ace of Base - The-House.com


I said CAN be more durable in my second comment on this subject. Extruded bases are easier to work with. That's why Rome adds more durable properties to their Impact base.

I'm no expert, but my guess is that you can work with sintered bases to make them super durable, but I'm guessing that it will raise prices substantially.


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## shralp (Jun 12, 2010)

Leo said:


> I said CAN be more durable in my second comment on this subject. Extruded bases are easier to work with. That's why Rome adds more durable properties to their Impact base.
> 
> I'm no expert, but my guess is that you can work with sintered bases to make them super durable, but I'm guessing that it will raise prices substantially.



How CAN an extruded base be more durable than sintered? Serious questions, I'm curious. That is not my understanding or experience.

Sure you can add things to sintered bases to make them faster and more durable, but graphite and electra will drive costs up. Still doesn't change the fact that a sintered base (harder) is more durable than extruded (softer).


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## Leo (Nov 24, 2009)

shralp said:


> How CAN an extruded base be more durable than sintered? Serious questions, I'm curious. That is not my understanding or experience.
> 
> Sure you can add things to sintered bases to make them faster and more durable, but graphite and electra will drive costs up. Still doesn't change the fact that a sintered base (harder) is more durable than extruded (softer).


They CAN be more durable when other tech is added to them. Did you read that link from Rome about their "Impact Bases"?

Again, I did state that it's likely you can do this with Sintered bases as well, but you and I both agree that this will cost everyone involved a pretty penny.

Also, again with the disclosure of me not being an engineer or anything...

Abrasion resistance does not necessarily equate to more impact resistance.

Seems Evo says things like graphite are normally added to sintered bases for increased durability.

Truth be told though, I think the difference is rather negligible. I've seen equal amounts of extruded vs sintered bases coming in for repairs. Other variables are involved obviously, but that's just what I'm seeing.

The main point is, sintered bases are in fact harder to repair. There's no bones about that.


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## redlude97 (Jan 9, 2008)

Leo said:


> When you melt ptex into an extruded base, it bonds better because well, that's practically how extruded bases are made.
> 
> When you pour that into a sintered base, it doesn't bond as well because sintered bases are made by grinding ptex.
> 
> ...


Why do you think once dried that PTEX is chemically different in terms of bonding etc? Before you answer be aware I have a PhD in chemical engineering, so please cite your sources.
Edit: When I read that back over it sounded kinda harsh. If you've seen this happening a lot when you fix sintered bases I'd like to know. I'm just a casual snowboarder who happens to tune all my friends boards. Haven't noticed any difference in PTEX repairs for sintered vs. extruded as long as properly prepped.


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## Leo (Nov 24, 2009)

redlude97 said:


> Why do you think once dried that PTEX is chemically different in terms of bonding etc? Before you answer be aware I have a PhD in chemical engineering, so please cite your sources.


First of all, argument from authority. I don't care if you're Einstein. You don't tell me to cite my sources when your only source is your PhD, which I have to take your word for (which I do). Chemical engineering... okay... do you work with PTex on snowboards? Do you know everything that goes into the process? Not saying you don't, just asking because your experience holds far more weight here than your academic credentials.

William Lane Craig has a PhD and that guy is a crack job.

Debate methods aside...

Ski and Snowboard Base Repair

This site explains you need something similar in hardness to the particular base. So a regular PTex candle doesn't work well with sintered bases. It also happens to answer my questions about abrasion resistance vs impact resistance 

Gouge Repair With Ski Base repair Iron


Who knows if any of these people have a PhD in chemical engineering though :dunno::dunno:


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## Leo (Nov 24, 2009)

redlude97 said:


> Edit: When I read that back over it sounded kinda harsh. If you've seen this happening a lot when you fix sintered bases I'd like to know. I'm just a casual snowboarder who happens to tune all my friends boards. Haven't noticed any difference in PTEX repairs for sintered vs. extruded as long as properly prepped.


No harm no foul. Just a simple debate. 

I've always respected you and a debate over base repair isn't going to change that.

I don't actually see more sintered bases needing repair on the same core shot areas. That's because we don't use normal PTex candles to fix them. I've seen them do complete base grinds to fix them. 

Again, I'm not an expert so I don't really understand the process. I'm not a tech.


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## shralp (Jun 12, 2010)

Leo said:


> They CAN be more durable when other tech is added to them. Did you read that link from Rome about their "Impact Bases"?
> 
> Again, I did state that it's likely you can do this with Sintered bases as well, but you and I both agree that this will cost everyone involved a pretty penny.
> 
> ...



Leo, you're being kind of confusing. First you say that extruded is more durable, now your saying that it can be made more durable when "other tech" is added. Are you asserting that it's more durable than sintered?



Leo said:


> As for ease of repair, extruded bases are easier to repair. They are also more durable.
> 
> This is why most park specific boards are extruded rather than sintered.


The Rome base compounds link is also misleading. 
"Constructed of the strongest abrasion-resistant compound, this advanced extruded technology with a high density structure holds up to a full season beating."

I think they may be stating that it's constructed of the most abrasion resistant extruded base? Not sure, but in general sintered is more abrasion resistant than extruded.


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## shralp (Jun 12, 2010)

Leo said:


> First of all, argument from authority. I don't care if you're Einstein. You don't tell me to cite my sources when your only source is your PhD, which I have to take your word for (which I do). Chemical engineering... okay... do you work with PTex on snowboards? Do you know everything that goes into the process? Not saying you don't, just asking because your experience holds far more weight here than your academic credentials.
> 
> William Lane Craig has a PhD and that guy is a crack job.
> 
> ...



So your own link proves my point pretty well:

"*The advantages of sintered over extruded p-tex are 20-25% higher abrasion and impact resistance*, a very low coefficient of friction, and the ability to absorb over 3 times more wax."


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## Leo (Nov 24, 2009)

shralp said:


> Leo, you're being kind of confusing. First you say that extruded is more durable, now your saying that it can be made more durable when "other tech" is added. Are you asserting that it's more durable than sintered?


I'm not being confusing. I'm pointing out that I corrected myself by telling you what I said in my SECOND comment.



shralp said:


> Rome base compounds link is also misleading.
> "Constructed of the strongest abrasion-resistant compound, this advanced extruded technology with a high density structure holds up to a full season beating."
> 
> I think they may be stating that it's constructed of the most abrasion resistant extruded base? Not sure, but in general sintered is more abrasion resistant than extruded.


There's nothing misleading about that. They added something to that specific base to increase durability. They just don't state WHAT they added.

Anyway, we have moved onto the issue with ease of repairs.


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## Leo (Nov 24, 2009)

shralp said:


> So your own link proves my point pretty well:
> 
> "*The advantages of sintered over extruded p-tex are 20-25% higher abrasion and impact resistance*, a very low coefficient of friction, and the ability to absorb over 3 times more wax."


Dude, did you not read what I said after that link?

"It also happens to answer my questions about abrasion resistance vs impact resistance"

Now stop trying to pick fights with me jerkface.


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## shralp (Jun 12, 2010)

Guess it wasn't clear that you were correcting your previous statements. 

Don't call be jerkface, you moran!


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## Leo (Nov 24, 2009)

shralp said:


> Guess it wasn't clear that you were correcting your previous statements.
> 
> Don't call be jerkface, you moran!


"moran"?

Yes, I was correcting myself. Sorry for the confusion... 












... jerkwad.


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## redlude97 (Jan 9, 2008)

Leo said:


> First of all, argument from authority. I don't care if you're Einstein. You don't tell me to cite my sources when your only source is your PhD, which I have to take your word for (which I do). Chemical engineering... okay... do you work with PTex on snowboards? Do you know everything that goes into the process? Not saying you don't, just asking because your experience holds far more weight here than your academic credentials.
> 
> William Lane Craig has a PhD and that guy is a crack job.
> 
> ...


I was just about to cite that tognar link as well, since its my usual go to for materials etc. Notice how they don't make a distinction between the repair methods for sintered vs extruded and just say the softer material will wear quicker(obviously). Nothing about the ptex not sticking.


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## sabatoa (Jan 18, 2011)

Leo said:


> "moran"?
> 
> Yes, I was correcting myself. Sorry for the confusion...
> 
> ... jerkwad.



:laugh:


Moran is legit. Get a brain.


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## shralp (Jun 12, 2010)

sabatoa said:


> :laugh:
> 
> 
> Moran is legit. Get a brain.



this dude knows whats up. Get a brane Leo, you moran.


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## alex12 (Dec 23, 2010)

man, I hate it when money sticks to your board! No worries though, looks like those dimes can be scraped off no problem


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## Leo (Nov 24, 2009)

shralp said:


> this dude knows whats up. Get a brane Leo, you moran.


LoL. Moran here is a name associated with a family that owns almost every car dealership in town.

I fail at the Interwebz apparently. 

Redlude: Ah, but it also doesn't say anything about which base holds repairs longer! Stalemate!

In reality, we have ventured outside of my general knowledge. I am speaking off what I've always been taught in the industry. 

But to be completely fair, neither of us have been able to provide a proof-positive answer to this. Countless other sites mention the difficulty of repairing sintered bases. But those are from retailers.

On a sidenote, I will now refer to you as Dr. Redlude


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## sabatoa (Jan 18, 2011)

Leo said:


> LoL. Moran here is a name associated with a family that owns almost every car dealership in town.
> 
> I fail at the Interwebz apparently.
> 
> ...


psh, I don't call anyone Doc unless their degree qualifies them for delivering babies or saving lives.

Too many years in retail dealing with uppity people in a college town.


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## BigmountainVMD (Oct 9, 2011)

sabatoa said:


> psh, I don't call anyone Doc unless their degree qualifies them for delivering babies or saving lives.
> 
> Too many years in retail dealing with uppity people in a college town.


What about animal babies/lives?


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## sabatoa (Jan 18, 2011)

BigmountainVMD said:


> What about animal babies/lives?


That one never came up. Putting myself in the situation, I wouldn't call them Doc outside of his/her practice but probably while at the office I suppose I would.

I guess if I'm being totally honest, if ANY customer ever asked/demanded to be addressed as Dr. _____ then I went out of my way to say Mr/Mrs. 

Medical Doctors never requested that sort of thing but the profs were always all too eager to mention their PhD. (How do you know if a prof has a PhD? Don't worry, they'll tell you..)


/ex Pharmacy jocky, didn't call the PharmD's docs either but I did use the title on the phone with physicians.


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## Leo (Nov 24, 2009)

Actually, PhD holders have as much right to the term "doctor" as MDs.

Doctor was originally used to describe people in teaching positions. 

The reason you might come across PhD holders being vocal about it is because people don't generally default to calling them Dr unless they know the person's title. These people work hard for the degree, so I can't really knock them for wanting to be addressed as Dr. Although there are ways to be less snooty about it.

MDs don't have to worry about this. They are always addressed as doctor by default. They might be vocal if we all stop calling them "doctor." Who knows?

If I had a PhD, I wouldn't want to be addressed as Dr. Although I would want it in my written titles.


Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


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## sabatoa (Jan 18, 2011)

Leo said:


> Actually, PhD holders have as much right to the term "doctor" as MDs.
> 
> Doctor was originally used to describe people in teaching positions.
> 
> ...


Written titles/legal documents, OF COURSE.

Asking to be called Doctor makes you pretentious and/or douchey.

Using it in an internet debate... well he kinda retracted that so I give him a pass


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## Lamps (Sep 3, 2011)

alex12 said:


> man, I hate it when money sticks to your board! No worries though, looks like those dimes can be scraped off no problem


I know, I skidded through a field of nickels the other day, dinged my base all over, but they scraped off ok.


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## backstop13 (Jun 27, 2012)

Lamps said:


> I know, I skidded through a field of nickels the other day, dinged my base all over, but they scraped off ok.


at least you can use all those nickels you scraped off to pay for the dings they caused :laugh:


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## M.C._Dub (Jan 18, 2013)

backstop13 said:


> at least you can use all those nickels you scraped off to pay for the dings they caused :laugh:


:thumbsup:


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## redlude97 (Jan 9, 2008)

Figured I'd go straight to the source and email Tognar


redlude97 said:


> Hi Tognar,
> I had a question regarding base PTEXing on a sintered vs. extruded base. Many sites state that sintered bases are harder to repair but based on your tutorial Gouge Repair With Ski Base repair Iron
> The method for repairing the base is essentially the same for a deep gouge that doesn't go to the core, melt PTEX into the gouge and scrape flat. Is the repair more likely to fail(pop out) on a sintered base? You mentioned durability issues but that is somewhat ambiguous. Will using your PTEX sticks with the repair gun be the same for sintered and extruded bases?
> Thanks,
> -Hai


Straight from the horse's mouth


Tognar said:


> Hi Hai,
> 
> The material that we offer will bond to sintered material just fine. If you have damage that extends down to the core you will want to address that by using a material like Metal Grip (P-Tex infused with epoxy) first as a thin layer, then use a standard P-Tex material over the top. The epoxy in the Metal Grip will help adhere to the core material.
> 
> ...


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## scotty100 (Apr 3, 2012)

Leo said:


> Actually, PhD holders have as much right to the term "doctor" as MDs.
> 
> Doctor was originally used to describe people in teaching positions.
> 
> ...


Haha...you are right Leo...actually medical "doctors" title is an honorary title given in the field of medicine. Only those who attain PhDs are actually legit holders of the "Dr" title. Of course, many MDs go on to attain PhDs also...double doctors I guess! It is unusual for those outside of academia who hold PhDs to use the dr title, however if you have a phd and work in academia then it's the reverse and the dr title is used widely teaching etc. I have one myself and as I am not in academia anymore I just use phd these days in a professional context. However, I have no beef with anyone who uses dr title regardless of where they work. Knowing the hell you go through to get the fkr you have every right to use it anywhere! Anyway...back to snowboarding...:laugh:


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## SilverSurfer (Sep 27, 2010)

Leo said:


> Actually, PhD holders have as much right to the term "doctor" as MDs.
> 
> Doctor was originally used to describe people in teaching positions.
> 
> ...


You can’t get a PhD without the proper knowledge. But, if you have a high post count you can get a free Never Summer snowboard and a PhD in Bullshit. Thanks for showing us the way Leo. You da man. Never Summer Design Team cant wait!


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## ARSENALFAN (Apr 16, 2012)

Dont feel bad. Every board I have owned looked like that the first day. Nothing toe worry about man.


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