# Toe Side Turn Board "Skipping" Help



## WigMar (Mar 17, 2019)

Toeside turns require a certain posture. You want to bend the knees while pressing your shins into the tongues of your boots. Your pelvis should also be rotated forward with a bit of a butt clench going on. This posture stacks weight into your edge and prevents it from skipping out while turning your body into a giant shock. This recent video by Malcolm Moore shows what I'm talking about pretty well.


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## IceCoastNewbie (Feb 11, 2021)

WigMar said:


> Toeside turns require a certain posture. You want to bend the knees while pressing your shins into the tongues of your boots. Your pelvis should also be rotated forward with a bit of a butt clench going on. This posture stacks weight into your edge and prevents it from skipping out while turning your body into a giant shock. This recent video by Malcolm Moore shows what I'm talking about pretty well.


Thank you, I'll check this out.


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## Phedder (Sep 13, 2014)

It sounds like you could be turning the board too perpendicular to the fall line too early on. You're asking too much of the edge hold and it's skipping out. When pointing the board down the fall line, sink your knees over your toe edge and push your shins into the tongue of your boot. Hold that stacked position, and let the sidecut determine your turn radius. Sounds like you're turning your body back up hill too early on in the turn, or at too high of a speed. Let the edge grip and let your sidecut dictate the turn, get comfortable with that before trying to manipulate it further.

A video would help a lot to see what's happening. Just my guess.


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## IceCoastNewbie (Feb 11, 2021)

Phedder said:


> It sounds like you could be turning the board too perpendicular to the fall line too early on. You're asking too much of the edge hold and it's skipping out. When pointing the board down the fall line, sink your knees over your toe edge and push your shins into the tongue of your boot. Hold that stacked position, and let the sidecut determine your turn radius. Sounds like you're turning your body back up hill too early on in the turn, or at too high of a speed. Let the edge grip and let your sidecut dictate the turn, get comfortable with that before trying to manipulate it further.
> 
> A video would help a lot to see what's happening. Just my guess.


Please forgive the term ignorance, so after a quick googling - I have a Salomon Pulse 162W from 2020 - Radial Sidecut. If I'm understanding you correctly, it does sound like I'm trying to turn too sharply. I'm used to from skiing doing a sharp turn to do "shallow" moves across the run/fall-line - so I was trying to kinda re-create that to avoid picking up too much speed.


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## WigMar (Mar 17, 2019)

To avoid picking up speed, make larger turns instead of smaller ones. Traverse the fall line more, and even turn uphill some. Be mindful of traffic when traversing. There are techniques similar to skiing's hop turns, but they are more advanced maneuvers. 

Once you're feeling your sidecut, you could look into how to do skidded turns. @Phedder is talking about riding the sidecut, or carving. The alternative is skidded turns- turn the sidecut sideways a bit and put on the brakes. This is probably what you're trying to do right now. It's important to know how to do both. Here's a video or two.


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## Phedder (Sep 13, 2014)

Yeah hard to determine what is actually going on. It sounds like you could be going between carved and skidded turns during the same turn, and that's what is causing the skipping/hopping. Sidecut engages and edge digs in, then because you're not able to absorb that force with with your ankles and knees properly yet, you get bounced out of that turn and skid.



IceCoastNewbie said:


> I have been trying to put more weight into my edge so I don't skid-turn my way into it. However what keeps happening is when I do this, my board "skips"/"hops" for lack of a better term.


You're trying to begin the turn by not skidding, so I'm assuming the turn begins with a carve (leaving a thin line in the snow) but if you're turning your body to face back uphill, you may be doing that too early, with too much momentum directly down the fall line, forcing the board to turn tighter than it wants to (than the sidecut and edgehold will allow) and then the board starts skidding because it can't hold that line with your current level of control. Does this sound like what's going on at all?


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## tanscrazydaisy (Mar 11, 2013)

It's softer flex board, so you'll have to adjust your legs to stabilize the board when you're on edge.

If you tried a stiffer board, you'll probably won't have the same issue.


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## IceCoastNewbie (Feb 11, 2021)

Phedder said:


> You're trying to begin the turn by not skidding, so I'm assuming the turn begins with a carve (leaving a thin line in the snow) but if you're turning your body to face back uphill, you may be doing that too early, with too much momentum directly down the fall line, forcing the board to turn tighter than it wants to (than the sidecut and edgehold will allow) and then the board starts skidding because it can't hold that line with your current level of control. Does this sound like what's going on at all?


To be frank I didn't know there was two types of turning haha. What I quoted from Phedder sounds really damn close/exactly it. I don't think I was intentionally thinking carving, just trying to pick my edge up enough that I wouldn't catch an edge and flop over.

Point board downhill > lean forward with lead leg to initiate toe-side turn > bring back foot around to traverse the fall-line vs down the fall-line/brake (I think right at this spot is the too-tight portion) > board skips



WigMar said:


> To avoid picking up speed, make larger turns instead of smaller ones. Traverse the fall line more, and even turn uphill some. Be mindful of traffic when traversing. There are techniques similar to skiing's hop turns, but they are more advanced maneuvers.


My intention was to traverse across the fall-line to brake, but have a "shorter/smaller" turn to not go as far "down" the fall-line if that makes sense.


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## drblast (Feb 28, 2017)

If you're not comfortable turning at speed on steeper runs you're going to have this problem especially in hard, bumpy conditions.

Reading between the lines, I think you're essentially trying to constantly skid to a stop between turns and go from traverse to traverse. This is a very natural way to slow yourself down and it totally works on flat blue runs, but try to do that on bumpy black runs and you will skip out and fall for a variety of reasons.

Edge hold is one and the steeper and bumpier the run, to the more work you're going to have to put in to holding that edge, and bumpy terrain is working against you. You'll get tired very quickly this way.

What works in those cases to control speed without getting bucked around and exhausting yourself are very quick carves around and on top of bumps. When I'm going down a steeper run my head is pointed down the fall line and I'm switching edges as much as possible... There's a rhythm to it. Hop, carve, hop, carve... You're essentially depressuring as quickly as possible so you can dig into the carve hard on the opposite edge. The digging in will help you control speed. This happens about every second or two. Heel, toe, heel, toe.

All of this means getting comfortable at speed. You'll go faster than you will traversing, but you'll also have more control and be able to choose where you want to go instead of the terrain choosing it for you.

Practice on flatter blue runs switching edges every second. Count your turns and try for more every time. Try to exaggerate your carves even at slow speeds so you can really feel the sidecut digging in. Make sure you can move your legs independent of your upper body while staying balanced.


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## IceCoastNewbie (Feb 11, 2021)

Thank you for the tip



drblast said:


> Reading between the lines, I think you're essentially trying to constantly skid to a stop between turns and go from traverse to traverse. This is a very natural way to slow yourself down and it totally works on flat blue runs, but try to do that on bumpy black runs and you will skip out and fall for a variety of reasons.


I am definitely trying to check my speed. Going to have to do a lot of practice it looks like, based on the other posts as well I think I wasn't giving the side-cut enough of a chance to do its job.


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## drblast (Feb 28, 2017)

I'm not a huge fan of the "keep your weight stacked and in line" sort of instruction. It's not wrong by any means, and yes you should do that, but I think the mental model it creates prepares you to ride more rigidly straight than you otherwise would. Once you get on edge and use the sidecut, lean the board over and really carve, your spine and weight are not directly over the board at all -- they are directly in line with the direction of the force you are placing on the board that's perpendicular to the edge that you're on.

Check out the guy in the sunglasses and camo bibs here: he's an excellent rider and you can see how dynamic he is even on this intermediate run. Also watch his speed (on my speedometer) and how slow he's going by carving quickly and dynamically.

Palmer first run - YouTube


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## supern00b (Jan 27, 2020)

drblast said:


> I'm not a huge fan of the "keep your weight stacked and in line" sort of instruction. It's not wrong by any means, and yes you should do that, but I think the mental model it creates prepares you to ride more rigidly straight than you otherwise would. Once you get on edge and use the sidecut, lean the board over and really carve, your spine and weight are not directly over the board at all -- they are directly in line with the direction of the force you are placing on the board that's perpendicular to the edge that you're on.
> 
> Check out the guy in the sunglasses and camo bibs here: he's an excellent rider and you can see how dynamic he is even on this intermediate run. Also watch his speed (on my speedometer) and how slow he's going by carving quickly and dynamically.
> 
> Palmer first run - YouTube


Is that a k2 broadcast he's riding?


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## drblast (Feb 28, 2017)

supern00b said:


> Is that a k2 broadcast he's riding?


It's a Salomon Assassin with Holograms. But it doesn't matter really.


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## supern00b (Jan 27, 2020)

drblast said:


> It's a Salomon Assassin with Holograms. But it doesn't matter really.


Yea, was just curious


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