# XGames too dangerous?!?!



## jwelsh83 (Jan 9, 2013)

I always have watched the XGames and remember the inaugural XGames back in '95. But a local news station in my area is doing a story on how the XGames are now too dangerous since the incident this year with Caleb Moore and his sled. It's so damn stupid, the media...talk about inherant risk! Just like guns are too dangerous and the NFL is NOW too dangerous. I have a feeling the next generation of human beings will be a bunch of crying vaginas walking around with helmets, knee and elbow pads. Pretty sure the competitors know the risks and really don't give a crap and they don't need anybody stepping in and telling them to tone it down a bit...snowmobiling was introduced shortly after the inaugural XGames and NOW it's unsafe. Go cry wolf elsewhere media, Evil Kenevil doers don't give a damn!


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## Treegreen (Mar 16, 2012)

Throwing around tricks on a snowmobile is the epitome of stupid from a risk perspective. I could _kind of_ get the news profile if the x-games made us all go out and copy them like a bunch of idiots. As it stands, if some guy who has adrenaline rush issues wants to put himself at risk then more power to him. They know it's dangerous. I think the NFL/football debate is more nuanced and a different animal all together. It's a much more widely engaged in activity, and the serious risk it poses is only now being identified let alone fully understood. Trying to prevent debilitating brain injuries that have the potential side effect of wigging out and committing suicide doesn't really seem like the kind of thing that makes a generation a bunch of "crying vaginas."


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## jwelsh83 (Jan 9, 2013)

Agreed, my whole point is that with ANYTHING contact related there is and always has been inherent risk. We all have choices to participate, but to ME we don't need the media telling us driving a sled off a ramp is dangerous and putting our beloved sports into the limelight to make them "safe". They, that participate know this, and we don't need someone stepping in and regulating something else...we know that tobacco causes cancer, we know eating too much causes obesity and other issues. It seems like a non issue and something that the greats in these sports already know and have dealt with over the years...food for thought...


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## IdahoFreshies (Jul 9, 2011)

It's not the next generation that's going to be crying vaginas, it's the previous generations who are writing the stories that are complaining how dangerous it is, the people that didn't grow up with mainstream action sports.


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## lo0p (Feb 26, 2011)

jwelsh83 said:


> I have a feeling the next generation of human beings will be a bunch of crying vaginas walking around with helmets, knee and elbow pads.


Helmets? OMG, so lame.
Good thing there are some real manly core boarders like you to make up for us cry babies. Sorry, I meant crying vaginas.

I hate to break it to you, but we have it way easier than the previous generation, who in turn had it easier than the previous one and so on. It's called progress.
So the previous generations probably think that we (and that includes you my dear friend) are a bunch of crying vaginas.

You want to ride without a helmet? Be my guest. I'll vote for you at the Darwin awards.


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## jwelsh83 (Jan 9, 2013)

Hey LoOp, sorry you miss understood my post and decided to go off on a rant...I dont have an issue with helmets and wear one myself. I'm saying that the next generation will come out the womb with a helmet because were affraid everything is dangerous. I'm not comparing this issue to wearing a helmet on the slopes you ass clown. For god sakes, all competitors on the XGames wear helmets...thats not the issue or what I was referring to as crying vaginas. It's the fact that the media considers something dangerous that is already dangerous.


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## BoardWalk (Mar 22, 2011)

jwelsh83 said:


> I'm saying that the next generation will come out the womb with a helmet .


That's gotta hurt...


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## jwelsh83 (Jan 9, 2013)

LOL...hypothetically my friend


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## Treegreen (Mar 16, 2012)

jwelsh83 said:


> Agreed, my whole point is that with ANYTHING contact related there is and always has been inherent risk. We all have choices to participate, but to ME we don't need the media telling us driving a sled off a ramp is dangerous and putting our beloved sports into the limelight to make them "safe". They, that participate know this, and we don't need someone stepping in and regulating something else...we know that tobacco causes cancer, we know eating too much causes obesity and other issues. It seems like a non issue and something that the greats in these sports already know and have dealt with over the years...food for thought...


I'm going to go on a tangent later in the post so I'll get the part were you and I agree out of the way first. I'm pretty tired of the media using extreme events as an excuse to stir up ratings, and I grow tired of my local news basically being at least 10 minutes on the various people who were assaulted or killed tragically on any given day. I'm certainly not disagreeing with you about understanding risk in general.

I am, however, not sure the football injuries we're lumping in here are really the same thing. Football head trauma is insidious because it takes a long time to show its effects, and I'm not really sure we understand how it works, how many it takes, and so on. Really, it seems more akin to your tobacco example. That was another activity that took a long time to fully get the risk of engaging in the activity. 

It's clear you don't have to make it to the NFL to feel the sting which means that parents/guardians are making the risk/reward decision instead of the individual, and what I'm arguing is that as a society we very clearly have only a vague understanding of what that risk is for the young people who play it. I think that's the main thing the NFL is having to deal with because it's the major ambassador for the sport.


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## jwelsh83 (Jan 9, 2013)

TreeGreen, I definitely see your point. I think sometimes our main steam media do have a tendency to stir the pot...as if we don't know what is right or what is wrong, what is safe and what is not safe...


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## Varza (Jan 6, 2013)

You make a good point, jwelsh, but I'm not sure it's something to get that riled up over. It's a media thing, they will yell and scream and "discuss" on air, but then they'll move on to the next thing and the world will go on its merry way like it always has. 

I am sure previous generations have had to deal with media BS, and so does ours, and so will the next ones. It doesn't seem to really change the world, unless we're talking presidential elections and the advent of radio


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## jwelsh83 (Jan 9, 2013)

haha I'm not getting riled up, something to spark up good conversation amongst other riders whom participate in a sport like we do. Whom already know the inherent risk...


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## Capita2JZGTE (Dec 13, 2012)

I agree that it is a dangerous sport and you have to be borderline if not fully clinically insane to participate. 

Do I think they need to tone it down? That's kind of a grey area, but in a way I wouldn't be against it.

Many of these riders are adrenaline junkies but there is a part of me that thinks they don't love every aspect of going as big as they do. 

I personally would not have attempted half of the dumb shit I have over the years if I didn't have the people around me doing the same shit, constantly pushing each other to go harder, even as little kids.

These athletes are going through the same stuff only on a much larger scale. 
Judges and other athletes in there respected sports are collectively deciding that once an insane trick has been done it is no longer cool, and you see it currently in the judges scoring. Since when is a triple backflip or a cab 1440 not completely insane? Yet judges continue to score them low(comparatively), pushing the athletes to do even more insane tricks and in turn taking a bigger gamble on their life. 

Just look at what happened to Haldor. There's no part of me that wants to see a great rider like him lose his career if not his life, just to impress the fans and judges. We already know he's a great rider.

I think the judges need to give higher scores for stylie smooth tricks with perfect landings than they currently do. Call me crazy but there's a very short list of tricks that I think looks cooler than a stylie backside rodeo 540, or even a clean method air.


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## jwelsh83 (Jan 9, 2013)

That's the great thing about the XGames! Folks pushing the envelope year after year...is it safe? Not to the novice, but even professionals do have incidents and it is AMAZING to watch these guys and gals first hand in the flesh. I remember being a green rider and having my buddy who was a more advanced rider pushing me to go down black runs and it only made me a better boarder...and it was stupid lol


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## Treegreen (Mar 16, 2012)

Capita2JZGTE said:


> I think the judges need to give higher scores for stylie smooth tricks with perfect landings than they currently do. Call me crazy but there's a very short list of tricks that I think looks cooler than a stylie backside rodeo 540, or even a clean method air.


I think what you are describing, in general, is what's wrong with the current scoring system. The problem is the alternative is something kind of like ice-skating where everyone has the same suite of tricks and it's all about how stylishly they do them and how cleanly they stomp them. You kind of have to figure it'll go in that direction unless we keep upping the risk by making the ramps bigger and bigger. You're only going to be able to get so much rotation unless you launch yourself higher up into the air. In some respects that's kind of appealing to see them all try and stomp the same stuff, but you'd probably need to reduce the number of x-games to compensate saturation.


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## HoboMaster (May 16, 2010)

I have no problem with people pushing the limits of the sport if they know the risk and consequences - if they didn't want to do it, they wouldn't.

My problem is that a lot of what's pushing the sport into insane levels of risk are the main promoters (as BA coins it, Energy Drink Wars). If guys are going out and being pushed to kill themselves for the benefit of increased Red Bull sales, then I think we are really pushing the envelope in the wrong direction.

Anyways, due to promoter pressure I feel like end-game competitive snowboarding has veered away from style and become much more of an aerial gymnastics show because non-snowboarders find it more entertaining to watch on TV.

Ultimately the more money and support that goes into snowboarding helps the sport, but I do feel like it's become increasingly like a circus over the last 10 years...


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## lo0p (Feb 26, 2011)

jwelsh83 said:


> Hey LoOp, sorry you miss understood my post and decided to go off on a rant...I dont have an issue with helmets and wear one myself. I'm saying that the next generation will come out the womb with a helmet because were affraid everything is dangerous. I'm not comparing this issue to wearing a helmet on the slopes you ass clown. For god sakes, all competitors on the XGames wear helmets...thats not the issue or what I was referring to as crying vaginas. It's the fact that the media considers something dangerous that is already dangerous.


I keep rereading your first post and still get the same vibe from it.
But hey, if that was not what you meant there's no point in arguing, apologies.


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## Capita2JZGTE (Dec 13, 2012)

Treegreen said:


> I think what you are describing, in general, is what's wrong with the current scoring system. The problem is the alternative is something kind of like ice-skating where everyone has the same suite of tricks and it's all about how stylishly they do them and how cleanly they stomp them. You kind of have to figure it'll go in that direction unless we keep upping the risk by making the ramps bigger and bigger. You're only going to be able to get so much rotation unless you launch yourself higher up into the air. In some respects that's kind of appealing to see them all try and stomp the same stuff, but you'd probably need to reduce the number of x-games to compensate saturation.


I understand where you're coming from and it's not an easy debate to talk about as I'm not going to say that I don't like watching triple corks and the likes. At the same time I respect these riders and would never want them to lose their life for our selfish reasons. There's a video of Torstein on youtube doing park laps at Park City and I gotta tell you, watching him create such clean lines and stomping all the landings all day long is more entertaining to me than watching him do a backside triple cork 1440 at a single event. (As cool as it may be)

Edit: My point is, I'd rather be watching them creating sick ass lines on the mountain than not watching them at all because they died trying to do a quad cork 1620.


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## jwelsh83 (Jan 9, 2013)

Helmet and pads, meaning protecting us from all the worlds dangers...not literally when relating to wearing a helmet or what-not on the slopes. FIGURATIVELY...SYMBOLICALLY. Apology accepted.


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## Big Foot (Jan 15, 2013)

jwelsh83 said:


> Helmet and pads, meaning protecting us from all the worlds dangers...not literally when relating to wearing a helmet or what-not on the slopes. FIGURATIVELY...SYMBOLICALLY. Apology accepted.


I understood what you meant, and completely agree with you. It's similar to how the mayor of NYC banned large sized soft drinks. Unfortunately we now live in a pussy society where people need to be protected from things that can hurt them, not held personally accountable for their actions. Rather than letting people make their own decision not to drink a 64ounce soda with lunch, the government has to step in and make it illegal. Or as this news outlet is saying, don't let these professional athletes decide whether they are comfortable risking their lives to progress a sport they love, let's just ban them from doing it.

This has been a growing trend in America for the past few decades, but has become increasingly worse over the last 5 years or so. I fear that the future generations of Americans will live in bubbles and have no contact with the outside world because it's too dangerous.


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## lo0p (Feb 26, 2011)

Capita2JZGTE said:


> I agree that it is a dangerous sport and you have to be borderline if not fully clinically insane to participate.
> 
> Do I think they need to tone it down? That's kind of a grey area, but in a way I wouldn't be against it.
> 
> Many of these riders are adrenaline junkies but there is a part of me that thinks they don't love every aspect of going as big as they do.


I think it's fairly unlikely it will get toned down. I mean after all, it's called X Games, not Lite Games (now without caffeine and only 50 calories!)
And like you said, those riders are adrenaline junkies.

Another problem is that the audience wants spectacular stuff. Most people can't really tell which rider has a better technique. They just want to see stuff that looks cool.

So I think the arms race will keep going.

And look at gymnastics for example. There was that chick (can't remember her name) who got a perfect 10 at the uneven bars in the 80s or something like that. What was considered perfection at the time would now probably get her a 4 out of 10, if that.


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## lo0p (Feb 26, 2011)

Big Foot said:


> This has been a growing trend in America for the past few decades, but has become increasingly worse over the last 5 years or so. I fear that the future generations of Americans will live in bubbles and have no contact with the outside world because it's too dangerous.


Going back to my earlier rant, I think every generation says something similar about the next (bunch of slackers, country and values going to hell, etc...)
I mean my grandparents said that, and I'm sure their grandparents used to say that too.

It's really a matter of perception.
What we consider normal is what was there when we were growing up. That's our baseline.
Things change and every generation has a different point of view.


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## jwelsh83 (Jan 9, 2013)

Exactly, given the XGames has been around for almost 20 years and the respective sports in the games have been around much longer, there is something to be said when people just now realize their dangerous. I believe it is that gap in generation saying "Hey, this isn't safe" AND a mixture of media, "Let's put this incident on a pedestal"


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## Varza (Jan 6, 2013)

lo0p said:


> And look at gymnastics for example. There was that chick (can't remember her name) who got a perfect 10 at the uneven bars in the 80s or something like that. What was considered perfection at the time would now probably get her a 4 out of 10, if that.


I think you're talking about Nadia Comăneci in 1976. Makes me kind of proud, as I come from the same country as her  

But that was a sidenote, your point makes sense. However, at this past X games the commentators kept saying that people "need triple corks to get on the podium". And pretty much every rider in big air was attempting it, the ones who failed just fell. I don't see how that's entertaining either, it's the same trick over and over, punctuated by accidents (I felt bad for Halldor, I really did!).

This is to mean, I do agree that they should score more on perfectly executed, cool-looking tricks, even if they aren't the new thing that is likely to get people's heads cracked. Maybe a combination of the 2 scoring concepts...


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## pencap75 (Dec 10, 2008)

The safety of the X-games is debatable.

However, putting a guy on a snowmobile with 4hrs of practice is undeniably stupid.


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## jwelsh83 (Jan 9, 2013)

+1 for you sir! No doubt!


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## Ttam (Jan 20, 2010)

Are you joking? xgames too dangerous? I dont think so. As stated, putting a guy on a sled with four hours of practice is like letting me hit the big air jump. Sure Ive hit 70 foot booters but come on...


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## Dakota.D (Feb 17, 2012)

lo0p said:


> You want to ride without a helmet? Be my guest. I'll vote for you at the Darwin awards.


If your going to criticize me for not wearing a helmet because I don't like them then I'm sorry your a pussy. I don't give a shit if you wear one or not, tried a few on and don't like how they feel. Guess my parents did coddle me like I was made of glass growing up?


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## JeffreyCH (Nov 21, 2009)

pencap75 said:


> However, putting a guy on a snowmobile with 4hrs of practice is undeniably stupid.


I had a big WTF moment on that one. I mean don't they have to qualify in regionals, be ranked, or something :icon_scratch: So I can call 'em up and say "i iz ridz me s0me snowmobiles n doz them flippy giggy thangz yup yup" so boom I'm in? If you watched his runs he could hardly turn the damn thing, then almost kills a spectator or 2...that was fucking dumb. 

Lets face it, you can wear 2 helmets, a full padded suit and still die on a green groomer. Hell my best friend broke 3 ribs, and put a small hole in his lung just screwing around on his quad in a buddies back yard. 

While I feel for the family, in no way do I condone knee jerk reactions that will allow the nanny state to further it's agenda. We don't need congressional panels, pushing legislation to make athletes safe. 

I do agree the current scoring system for comps sucks big time, and I hate the big corporate sponsorship that drives it.


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## tigre (Mar 5, 2012)

JeffreyCH said:


> If you watched his runs he could hardly turn the damn thing, then almost kills a spectator or 2...that was fucking dumb.


I'm not sure how his lack of experience on a sled caused the throttle to stick. I've seen and heard of that happening to people with a whole lot more than four hours on a sled. He didn't have any time to hit the kill switch before it took off, either. Maybe the organizers should have the crowd further back, or require cordless tethers that would at least kill the engine at a certain distance from the rider. Obviously a normal tether wouldn't work because they're doing flips and stuff. 

It sucks that this happened and someone got hurt, but it was a freak accident. Just like people getting hit by pucks at a hockey game or flaming debris at a NASCAR race. There may be some responsibility on the venue and organizers to keep the audience as safe as possible, but I can't see that the athletes are the primary ones responsible in a mishap like that. 

At any rate, I don't know that this is so much more dangerous than what a lot of heli skiers and ski/snowboard mountaineers are doing. At least it's in a controlled environment with ambulances waiting to whisk them away to the nearest hospital. I know guys who do crazy aerial stunts on snowmachines in the backcountry, in avalanche terrain, where a serious injury is going to require either a really painful evacuation on a sled, or a helicopter. And if you need a real trauma center you have a five hour flight to Seattle. Good luck. These guys (and girls) aren't crazy, or stupid. That's just how they like to have fun. They're grownups, mostly with decent jobs even, and if they get hurt it's really not anyone's business except theirs and their family's.


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## brucew. (Dec 4, 2012)

Damn....Caleb Moore has died from his injuries. RIP

Caleb Moore dies after injuries in X Games crash


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## jwelsh83 (Jan 9, 2013)

I read it too...what a shame. Hope his family finds solace considering they've been through so much in dealing with both of their sons' injuries. I can see changes coming down the pipe for the XGames


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## seant46 (Dec 8, 2009)

RIP... 

Yes it will be interesting to see what happens in the future with x games all these sports are progressing so fast.


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## poutanen (Dec 22, 2011)

HoboMaster said:


> Anyways, due to promoter pressure I feel like end-game competitive snowboarding has veered away from style and become much more of an aerial gymnastics show because non-snowboarders find it more entertaining to watch on TV.


Yeah I hardly watch any snowboarding on TV for this reason. Watching boarder after board spin off a kicker is BORING. I think that's why Redbull did the supernatural thing, pretty cool how it was scored and video'd more like a slopestyle competition.

On the other end of the spectrum, I love the Art of Flight but tons of slo-mo powder riding is anoying too. 99% of that terrain I'll never get to ride.

One of the only snow shows I like to watch is on a network up here called Rad-X. It's called Descent Snow Descent Snow... And it basically is a series of resort and cat/heli skiing "reviews" done by pro skiers and riders. They show terrain at various resorts around the world, about 50/50 resorts vs backcountry. And they do show them riding down some on-piste runs, park, and lots of off-piste.



lo0p said:


> And look at gymnastics for example.


Did somebody say look at gymnasts?!? :blink: Don't have to tell me twice! 



Varza said:


> I think you're talking about Nadia Comăneci in 1976. Makes me kind of proud, as I come from the same country as her


Eastern European women are hot! :yahoo: I agree with the triple corks. Maybe the scoring system has to change? Who's the rider from either the art of flight, or first desent that sort of pauses in the middle of his spins? He shows way more interesting control of his board than the super spinners of this generation.

Watching guys do tripple cork 1440 sow cow flips is like watching figure skating for me... BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOORING.


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## Rockpen (Dec 13, 2012)

I stopped watching the x games after they failed to correctly call a triple back flip 180 excatly that. OMG TRIPLE CORK!!!!! AHHHHHH!!!!!!! 

Fuck X Games, it gets worse every year.

Ever since the Palm left it just hasnt been the same.


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## brucew. (Dec 4, 2012)

I don't know what they can do to make snowmobiling safer. It seems like those guys are constantly almost getting hit by their own sleds, it was just a matter of time before something like this happened.

I think big air and slopestyle are getting a little ridiculous though. I'd like to see them start rewarding creativity and style as opposed to just giving out points to whoever hucks themselves around the most. We heard it all weekend, "if you don't have a triple your not going to win" and we saw what happened to Helgason as a result. whats next for these guys? throwing quad corks?


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## jojotherider (Mar 17, 2011)

HoboMaster said:


> Anyways, due to promoter pressure I feel like end-game competitive snowboarding has veered away from style and become much more of an aerial gymnastics show because non-snowboarders find it more entertaining to watch on TV.


This is what I liked about the Mens Ski Big Air. I missed the final jam, but the guy that won the whole thing seemed to be pumping a lot more style into his jumps. His jumps didn't look out of this world like the guy trying the 1980s :dizzy:, he just looked like he was having fun and stomping his tricks clean. In the end he did throw a triple cork for the win, but I don't think he had been trying it all night. It was actually pretty refreshing to see the judges rewarding the style.

-joel


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