# Opinions On The Best Outerwear Fabric For 2016/2017?



## BreakAes (Dec 12, 2016)

Hi all,

I've been doing research on outerwear fabrics. I can't post links, but you should find a good article listing some of the industry standards if you search for: Gear Patrol waterproof breathable technologies explained

I'm interested in knowing users' opinions on these fabrics. And also if there are others out there that are good, and compete with the ones listed: Gore-Tex Pro, Toray Dermizax NX, Polartec Neoshell, eVent, and Schoeller c_change.

Let me know, thanks.


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## snowklinger (Aug 30, 2011)

i prefer glass


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## 4ringnut (Jan 8, 2016)

Gore Tex or bust. Even the 2L is amazing. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

Dermazax or eVent.


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## dave785 (Jan 21, 2016)

I know it isn't on the list, but the Coconoa stuff that Homeschool uses is amazing. The waterproof is pretty great at 20k rating, but the breathability at 30k is just a whole new level of luxury for someone like me who sweats a lot.


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## BreakAes (Dec 12, 2016)

Thanks for the tip on Cocona. I do have a Rab MeCo blended baselayer with Cocona fabric. And I did see the Ride Alki pants are made using it, but I don't know if I've looked into the products by Homeschool.


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## offthewallds (Dec 16, 2016)

Definitely sold on Trew's new selection with Dermizax fabrics. 20k/40k is going to be a treat since I warm up pretty quickly and want to be comfortable (read: dry) in any conditions.


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## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

got trew and arcteryx stuff....I like the trew better...keeps me dry and better functionally with pockets and cut...but arcteryx stuff is lighter, more packable but design and pockets are shitty, i.e., not much on hill functionability


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## offthewallds (Dec 16, 2016)

^^ What gear do you have from Trew? What kind of layering do you use?

I nabbed the Powfunk and TREWth bibs. Coming from some 10k Foursquare gear, so tech. shells are a new item to me.


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## redlude97 (Jan 9, 2008)

wrathfuldeity said:


> got trew and arcteryx stuff....I like the trew better...keeps me dry and better functionally with pockets and cut...but arcteryx stuff is lighter, more packable but design and pockets are shitty, i.e., not much on hill functionability


what arcteryx stuff are you using? I spent a lot of time trying on and researching new gear this your for touring/backcountry and arcteryx was hard to beat in terms of thoughtful minimalist design with just enough carrying capacity for what you need. Ended up with stingray bibs and a beta LT. Its actually overkill for resort riding, but I carry minimal supplies other than a few bars, flask, and tool when at a resort.


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## Twin (Dec 10, 2016)

It seems like snowboard industry is much more reluctant to try new advanced materials, unlike climbing/hiking etc brands. Almost every brand is still using plain old Gore-Tex instead of the newer, improved versions - Gore-Tex Active and Gore-Tex Pro (not to be confused with Gore-Tex Pro Shell). I could not find any snowboard brands that use eVent or NeoShell. 

OK, I found one: Westcomb is using Neoshell, but it seems like a ski and general outdoor, rather than a snowboard-focused brand. Maybe they just think that air permeability is just not necessary in resort situations? I love my Burton [ak] gear but why they refuse to use newer materials is beyond me.


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## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

offthewallds said:


> ^^ What gear do you have from Trew? What kind of layering do you use?
> 
> I nabbed the Powfunk and TREWth bibs. Coming from some 10k Foursquare gear, so tech. shells are a new item to me.





redlude97 said:


> what arcteryx stuff are you using? I spent a lot of time trying on and researching new gear this your for touring/backcountry and arcteryx was hard to beat in terms of thoughtful minimalist design with just enough carrying capacity for what you need. Ended up with stingray bibs and a beta LT. Its actually overkill for resort riding, but I carry minimal supplies other than a few bars, flask, and tool when at a resort.


trew beast jacket and eagle pants...the bigger pockets...infact can put the skins in the jacket pocket to warm them up...and don't have to put them in the float pack fro hot laps....yea overkill for resort...but sometimes a tour or ducking bc is rather spur of the moment. use light wt merino base top, usually merino shorts or light wt merino bottoms and if cold...below 18 degrees will ware a medium wt merino sweater...and yesterday at 10 degrees added a fleece vest...also wear a merino skull cap and merino neck gaiter only if needed.

idk what arcteryx models...but the fit is too restrictive for my fat body and the pockets are too small, not enough size for extra mitts, burrito or even goggs and etc.


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## offthewallds (Dec 16, 2016)

wrathfuldeity said:


> trew beast jacket and eagle pants...the bigger pockets...infact can put the skins in the jacket pocket to warm them up...and don't have to put them in the float pack fro hot laps....yea overkill for resort...but sometimes a tour or ducking bc is rather spur of the moment. use light wt merino base top, usually merino shorts or light wt merino bottoms and if cold...below 18 degrees will ware a medium wt merino sweater...and yesterday at 10 degrees added a fleece vest...also wear a merino skull cap and merino neck gaiter only if needed.
> ...


10-4. I think I'll be alright then. Would be nice to have some decent bottoms but since I'm only resort riding at this point, sweat pants will do.


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## Kenai (Dec 15, 2013)

offthewallds said:


> 10-4. I think I'll be alright then. Would be nice to have some decent bottoms but since I'm only resort riding at this point, sweat pants will do.


Please save some pennies and get yourself some merino bottoms - or at least some non-cotton long underwear. It will make a big difference in warmth and comfort. Keep your eyes out for Smartwool, Icebreaker, and Ibex on sites like Steep & Cheap, Whiskey Militia, Sierra Trading Post, and Camofire. I'm sure people can recommend others. I've found some local discount stores with lesser known brands for seriously cheap, like $30 for mid-weight merino bottoms. There is no point in having awesome, breathable bibs if you are going to have soaked cotton sweats underneath!

Here is a pair of light weight bottoms for under $40.


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## offthewallds (Dec 16, 2016)

Kenai said:


> Please save some pennies and get yourself some merino bottoms - or at least some non-cotton long underwear. It will make a big difference in warmth and comfort. Keep your eyes out for Smartwool, Icebreaker, and Ibex on sites like Steep & Cheap, Whiskey Militia, Sierra Trading Post, and Camofire. I'm sure people can recommend others. I've found some local discount stores with lesser known brands for seriously cheap, like $30 for mid-weight merino bottoms. There is no point in having awesome, breathable bibs if you are going to have soaked cotton sweats underneath!
> 
> Here is a pair of light weight bottoms for under $40.


^^ lol that's fair. The pennies aren't a problem, I just feel guilty after dropping dough on all this gear. May as well complete the package. :grin:


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## Kenai (Dec 15, 2013)

offthewallds said:


> ^^ lol that's fair. The pennies aren't a problem, I just feel guilty after dropping dough on all this gear. May as well complete the package. :grin:


I'm not sure why I assumed that after you obviously purchased some super-sweet tech gear. I guess that's just what we mostly hear! In any event, it will definitely be worth it. I have replaced almost all of my xxxlene base layers with merino and it is so great.


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## offthewallds (Dec 16, 2016)

Kenai said:


> I'm not sure why I assumed that after you obviously purchased some super-sweet tech gear. I guess that's just what we mostly hear! In any event, it will definitely be worth it. I have replaced almost all of my xxxlene base layers with merino and it is so great.


It's all good, I was definitely a budget boarder getting through school. Had a decent board and enough cash for gas and drinks. Work is a drag but it pays for what I love. My Trew gear is stuck in limbo at our apartment office since I work too late to pick it up. :facepalm1:

Thanks for pushing me over the edge on the bottoms. I know I'll be happier.


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## txb0115 (Sep 20, 2015)

Twin said:


> It seems like snowboard industry is much more reluctant to try new advanced materials, unlike climbing/hiking etc brands. Almost every brand is still using plain old Gore-Tex instead of the newer, improved versions - Gore-Tex Active and Gore-Tex Pro (not to be confused with Gore-Tex Pro Shell). I could not find any snowboard brands that use eVent or NeoShell.
> 
> OK, I found one: Westcomb is using Neoshell, but it seems like a ski and general outdoor, rather than a snowboard-focused brand. Maybe they just think that air permeability is just not necessary in resort situations? I love my Burton [ak] gear but why they refuse to use newer materials is beyond me.


I think you need to look a bit harder at the details... Multiple items in Burtons line using things other than "plain old Gore-Tex"...






























Then yes... They have some "pro shell" stuff too...


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## Twin (Dec 10, 2016)

txb0115 said:


> I think you need to look a bit harder at the details... Multiple items in Burtons line using things other than "plain old Gore-Tex"...


OK, I stand corrected!


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## destroy (Dec 16, 2012)

Technology like Gore-Tex, Sympatex, eVent, DryQ, Hyvent, etc all costs lots of money to license and produce. Most "snowboarding" specific brands aren't aimed at the price-point that mountaineering gear like Arc'teryx, Outdoor Research, etc are. They produce functional gear for the average resort rider, and a few companies make high end technical shells that are in the low-mid end of the high end shell market. 

As far as membrane technology... yesh, that's a messy and very complicated one. Finding jackets and pants with the right mix of construction quality, design/features and function, fit and finish, build quality, comfort, and all of the other factors that go into choosing the ultimate outerwear... well, you're after unicorns there, bud.

Here is a pretty interesting study on breathability in all of these various technologies. The only thing I took from it was that there are no clear winners. None of them function exactly alike, but ultimately some might be better in some scenarios than others. Hard to choose, ultimately.


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

Has anybody tried the Cocona stuff? How does it work?
I think it's called Cocona 37.5..... Ride uses it.


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## snowklinger (Aug 30, 2011)

F1EA said:


> Has anybody tried the Cocona stuff? How does it work?
> I think it's called Cocona 37.5..... Ride uses it.


i have a puffy coat filled with it and a 3/4 pant baselayer, love em both use em constantly

mine are homeschool products


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## redlude97 (Jan 9, 2008)

txb0115 said:


> I think you need to look a bit harder at the details... Multiple items in Burtons line using things other than "plain old Gore-Tex"...


you know things are getting out of hand when they are charging more than arcteryx for similar pieces


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## snowklinger (Aug 30, 2011)

redlude97 said:


> you know things are getting out of hand when they are charging more than arcteryx for SIGNIFICANTLY lower tier pieces


fixed for accuracy


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## Twin (Dec 10, 2016)

F1EA said:


> Has anybody tried the Cocona stuff? How does it work?
> I think it's called Cocona 37.5..... Ride uses it.


I only tried it in baselayers. Rab makes a number of those, called MeCo, and I think they changed the name to Merino+ after Cocona was rebranded to 37.5. I really like those for breathability and drying time, although they tend to pill over time.


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## ekb18c (Mar 11, 2013)

I have goretex from Arcteryx and DryQ from Mountain Hardware. Both seem to work pretty good in keeping me dry.


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## txb0115 (Sep 20, 2015)

Watch this video...


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

txb0115 said:


> Watch this video...


I actually have a Westcomb eVent shell, the thing is absolutely waterproof; beads so well, and it's very very breathable. Definitely better than Goretex in both waterproffness and breathability. The fabric feels very similar to the ArcTeryx hardshells, which is.... a bit toasty. It's also pretty thin and low volume, so no protection from the cold. And no powder skirt; so I only use that when it's raining in the city (which is often), not for snowboarding. 

Also have an ArcTeryx tech hoodie; definitely some next level stuff. It's a mix between a fleece and a soft shell. Breathes like a fleece, but water proof. It's got stretch fabric and feels sort of like rubber.... pretty insane. ArcTeryx is really cutting edge. But it's just so damn expensive.

But for snowboarding, I still prefer the standard 2L Goretex stuff. For the upfront price, general features you can get for that same price; if it's a snowboard brand it's usually slightly longer and have powder skirts, jacket/pant interface, better pockets, etc. Also generally have softer fabric that just feels nicer to ride in.


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## gn3man (Mar 12, 2015)

as for me, columbia Piste Beast with omni heat works flawless, dry and warm until -15 celsius, no fleece under. For warmer conditions 686 hydra (shell jacket without insulation). Fantastic breathability and waterproofness!


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## redlude97 (Jan 9, 2008)

F1EA said:


> I actually have a Westcomb eVent shell, the thing is absolutely waterproof; beads so well, and it's very very breathable. Definitely better than Goretex in both waterproffness and breathability. The fabric feels very similar to the ArcTeryx hardshells, which is.... a bit toasty. It's also pretty thin and low volume, so no protection from the cold. And no powder skirt; so I only use that when it's raining in the city (which is often), not for snowboarding.
> 
> Also have an ArcTeryx tech hoodie; definitely some next level stuff. It's a mix between a fleece and a soft shell. Breathes like a fleece, but water proof. It's got stretch fabric and feels sort of like rubber.... pretty insane. ArcTeryx is really cutting edge. But it's just so damn expensive.
> 
> But for snowboarding, I still prefer the standard 2L Goretex stuff. For the upfront price, general features you can get for that same price; if it's a snowboard brand it's usually slightly longer and have powder skirts, jacket/pant interface, better pockets, etc. Also generally have softer fabric that just feels nicer to ride in.


Do you have a proton or an atom? Sounds like an atom


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## MJP (Jan 7, 2013)

I ride with an Arcteryx Sidewinder jacket and Sabre pants. Smartwool NTS 250 merino wool bottoms and top, polyester Tshirt, and a delta zip jacket or Atom Hoody. Can stick with light layers and never get soaked. If it rains, is windy and wet, Gore Tex Pro keeps you dry.


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## Clayton Bigsby (Oct 23, 2012)

second on the ArcTeryx Sidewinder, I've had mine for 8 to 10 years and still out performs everything I've had before, my Marmot Alpinist Jacket is a close second. I also use ArcTeryx Minute Man bibs which killer, they are soooooo light I remember when I ordered them from online I got a vanilla envelope in the mail from the company and I said to my wife that they must have sent me a free t-shirt, so I opened the envelope to find my X-large bibs in it. I am constantly riding through trees (you PNW giants) and brushing against frozen branches with no fear of ever tearing it, plus they have a lifetime warranty

Look at Burton AK3 stuff, I have some of the AK2 pants which I really, but definitely heavier then the Arc jacket and bibs combined.

Not cheap but they'll last you years


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## kalev (Dec 17, 2013)

I've got a Gore-Tex Active shell from Black Diamond and I love it 

Use it for hiking in the off-season too - definitely worth the $$ imo


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## Fielding (Feb 15, 2015)

I ride all year in all sorts of conditions in a Spyder Nine Ninety race suit. Works great and chicks dig it.


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## Clayton Bigsby (Oct 23, 2012)

My buddy scored the higher end (not sure of model name) OR jacket online, reg over $600 he got it for under $300 and it's a sweet jacket


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

redlude97 said:


> Do you have a proton or an atom? Sounds like an atom


No, the one I have is the Epsilon. Pretty close to the Atom but without insulation; also, I'm not sure how stretchy is the Atom..... the Epsilon is very stretchy and super breathable. 

It feels like a fleece when you have it on; but I've worn it in the rain and stay completely dry. It's not fully waterproof though; but still I've used it on normal rain (so not soaking rain) and stayed dry. Not just inside.... the shell itself beads and keeps water away. And it's stretchy like rubber....... 

So basically... a water resistant rubber fleece ? 
Problem is you're down $300+ after tax. Some serious coin for just a hoodie.


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## SGboarder (Jun 24, 2012)

redlude97 said:


> Do you have a proton or an atom? Sounds like an atom


Actually sounds like it could be the Epsilon/Fortrez/Arenite.


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

SGboarder said:


> Actually sounds like it could be the Epsilon/Fortrez/Arenite.


Yep, Epsilon.

Not a "snowboard" hoodie per se. But could definitely be worn in spring or early season on top of a base.


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## redlude97 (Jan 9, 2008)

SGboarder said:


> Actually sounds like it could be the Epsilon/Fortrez/Arenite.


yep, totally spaced on softshells thinking of breathable midlayers


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## Kaladryn (Mar 18, 2016)

I love my Arcteryx, I wear the Sabre jacket and pants, atom mid layer.

The real lightness and freedom of movement is what is truly amazing, especially for snowboarding which has a lot of upper body movement.


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

Kaladryn said:


> I love my Arcteryx, I wear the Sabre jacket and pants, atom mid layer.
> 
> The real lightness and freedom of movement is what is truly amazing, especially for snowboarding which has a lot of upper body movement.


I almost got a Sabre a couple of weeks ago. Fit was pretty good, just a tad bit baggier than Burton AK.

But I already have an AK shell and needed something with at least a little bit of insulation, as this season has been pretty cold. So got a Quicksilver Impact 2L Goretex instead. For less than half the price of the Sabre..... 

When i did the Avy training with my colleagues, pretty much everyone had ArcTeryx. The instructors and most of the group.... and these are people who spend a lot of time outdoors, doing backcountry trips, etc.


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

HotSnowball said:


> I also have the Epsilon (it actually is only US$200 retail). Actually one of my less frequently used pieces of Arc clothing, since the use case seems fairly limited because it sacrifices some breathability and warmth for water resistance - I would rather have the first two features in a mid-layer (and it definitely is a mid-layer, because it is too tight fitting to serve as a jacket/outer layer with more than a t-shirt on). The best use that I have found for it is skinning in cool (rather than cold) conditions.


Totally.

I dont even use it for snowboarding. Mostly a daily usage thing and the occassional hike or bike. It rains a lot and humidity is very high here so i use it often. Also pretty mild temps in the city.

Retail says $270cad plus tax. But i don't know because I got mine thru work, so i didnt buy it. I wouldnt pay $300 for it.

So yeah, agree w you. But with a merino base, it's super useful in our usual fall/spring weather. (around 15C, 90%+ humidity and generaly a light drizzle)


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## ekb18c (Mar 11, 2013)

Sidewinder and Beta AR user here... Not buying or using anything else.


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## redlude97 (Jan 9, 2008)

ekb18c said:


> Sidewinder and Beta AR user here... Not buying or using anything else.


using the beta with bibs or pants? My LT is pretty short


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## ekb18c (Mar 11, 2013)

redlude97 said:


> ekb18c said:
> 
> 
> > Sidewinder and Beta AR user here... Not buying or using anything else.
> ...



You must have a long torso... I don't have that problem with my AR and pants...


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## redlude97 (Jan 9, 2008)

ekb18c said:


> You must have a long torso... I don't have that problem with my AR and pants...


I'm 5'7" with a med. It sits right at the hip. and doesn't have a powderskirt. Works fine with my stinger bibs but not my pants. Generally my resort jackets cover most of my ass. The Theta is longer and would seem to work better.


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## Nocturnal7x (Mar 6, 2015)

Neoshell is likely the most expensive and hard to find. However, it is the most breathable waterproof breathable, and has 20k waterproofness. 

Its allows about twice the airflow of eVent, which is a similar air permeable waterproof/breathable.


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## Powhunter (May 10, 2015)

I have some gear from Strafe that is eVent and so far I'm impressed with the waterproofing and breath ability. I'm not sold on the quality of the gear for what you pay, but the fabric itself works well. It offers no warmth at all, even more so than my Burton AK 2L Goretex gear which also offers little warmth. Not the biggest issue for a shell, but it's worth a mention. It really works well when you're touring too.


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