# Never Summer West



## taco tuesday

Hey Vince, wanna send me on to test out on the east coast? That thing is pretty.


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## buggravy

Cool, looking forward to hearing more of your experience on this. Your comments about the flex are not quite what I was expecting, as I had Heritage replacement in my head. I totally agree about the Ripsaw being a logical Heritage replacement, as they do ride similar for me. My curiosity is really piqued about the West.


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## readimag

I am hoping this is the replacement for the cobra cause all the rocker was holding the board back IMO. It just needed that extra camber to bring the board to the next level. It was like when they made the snow trooper with the longer zones to replace the SL. It went from great board to now I am on meth when you want to pop, at least for me it did. I am sad the heritage is going away but I like the way the line is heading.


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## buggravy

Is it a Carbonium series board, or matte top sheet?


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## killclimbz

Very nice SK. Looks like a fun ride.


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## snowklinger

Carboniumium


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## timmytard

shit mine must be in the mail still?:dry:

You know how to snowboard?

No way crazy, I did not know that. haha



What the fuck


TT


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## snowklinger

black ops snowboarding son


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## brettgo1

Sa-weet, so this is basically a Carbonium series Cobra with Ripsaw's extended camber profile? This definitely seems like my next board...

I know it's more directional, but did you try to ride switch with it? What about the terrain park?

Best, Brett


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## snowklinger

brettgo1 said:


> Sa-weet, so this is basically a Carbonium series Cobra with Ripsaw's extended camber profile? This definitely seems like my next board...
> 
> I know it's more directional, but did you try to ride switch with it? What about the terrain park?
> 
> Best, Brett


-I don't ride park anymore

-Ill ride switch on my proto

-It has plenty of flex to easily butter if you know how, I did do some low speed ones and will throw down some pow butters when given the chance.

*One thing that I did not pay attention to, which I thought of but forgot, was how the nose responded to speed on the hardpack. I was hauling ass on afternoon spring groomer conditions. Due to the the length and flex I expected some chatter up there, but did not notice. It really is not a noodle, but it is equally not a plank. The extra camber angles diving toward the front contact point probably helps with nose flap.


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## embrion

Have you had chance to compare it to current or future Snowtrooper?


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## F1EA

Ah nice, so the West is a bit stiffer and less rocker... that's exactly what i would change about the Cobra.

I love the shape. But it wants to be too middle ground and accessible for the terrain it's intended for.


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## embrion

So if Snowtrooper is softer than Cobra, then West is Cobra level or stiffer?
I've had chance to spend 5 days with Endeavor Live which is very popy middle of the road flex kind of a board so I hope that Snowtrooper is something like that.

Btw. do you know what has changed between 14/15 and 15/16 Snowtrooper?


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## F1EA

embrion said:


> So if Snowtrooper is softer than Cobra, then West is Cobra level or stiffer?
> I've had chance to spend 5 days with Endeavor Live which is very popy middle of the road flex kind of a board so I hope that Snowtrooper is something like that.
> 
> Btw. do you know what has changed between 14/15 and 15/16 Snowtrooper?


hmmm I fixed my post. it seemd as if I was answering to your question?

Anyways...... I actually have a 2014 live.
And have seen the 2015 a bit; the 2015 Live is about similar flex to the 2014 Cobra. The Cobra's tail feels a bit stiffer, but only because it's shorter. Also it seems the West is a bit stiffer than Cobra (according to this review).

I have the 2014 Live and prefer it 100% over the Cobra. The 2014 Live is a bit stiffer than the 2015 Live. One thing I really like about the Cobra is how it handles turns. Specially in the middle and at the end of turns.... really nice. But the 2014 live out-floats it, feels more stable, has a much stronger base and is just a better board all around. The Cobra is quicker edge to edge. So this West is something i would definitely want to try.

The thing is I wouldn't make the Cobra any stiffer though, because of all that rocker... so it seems what they did with the West (less rocker) is a cool thing.

BTW i'm comparing 159 Live vs 158 Cobra both 2014 (but Cobra has blunt tips so that makes em pretty much the same)


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## snowklinger

Sorry if I was not clear that I have barely ridden a Cobra and it was 2 years ago. They really look like the same shape though.

The main point is that the premium all mountain freestyle offerings (Cobra, Proto) were soft and mushy, or getting that way. My first Proto didn't seem so, but the new one yes, as well as the Cobra. Certainly when comparing the West. Its not stiff. I believe most of the change in sensation has to do with the new Camber profiles than any other changes in terms of stiffness. (that doesn't mean there aren't new/different carbon layups, or that the core isnt' entirely new)

This is born from the boards I have mentioned and the Ripsaw.

From what I understand the Snowtrooper is the replacement to the SL? I have never ridden either. Expect all mountain flex, no carbonium, no ripsaw camber, much closer to twin, the ~100$ of tech *value.

This West has no comparison. The most important part of any of these comparisons is that they fill similar niches. No NS has ever ridden like this. I'm not gushing, its different. Like running barefoot.


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## timmytard

Oh yeah, well, I'm gonna get a Chair man & It's gonna have better black ops stickers.


TT


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## njfastlfie

that board looks SICK!


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## NevaSummaLuva

embrion said:


> So if Snowtrooper is softer than Cobra, then West is Cobra level or stiffer?
> I've had chance to spend 5 days with Endeavor Live which is very popy middle of the road flex kind of a board so I hope that Snowtrooper is something like that.
> 
> Btw. do you know what has changed between 14/15 and 15/16 Snowtrooper?


Shit. I just bought a 14/15 snowtrooper and they are making changes already for 15/16?


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## The Chairman

NevaSummaLuva said:


> Shit. I just bought a 14/15 snowtrooper and they are making changes already for 15/16?


Just adding a new model. The Snowtrooper will be un-changed for 15/16. We worked hard on that board and felt we hit the nail on the head. It did well and most of our team, employees are riding and loving the Snowtrooper. The West is basically a Snowtrooper with a bit more edgy, aggressive feel and pop of our enhanced camber Ripsaw profile. Whereas the Snowtooper has the classic surfy feel of our Rocker Camber profile. Same shape, set back, damping system and similar flex (the West inherently feels a bit stiffer because of the profile's cambered areas running underfoot).


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## The Chairman

Just to clarify. 

The West wasn't intended to be the replacement for the Heritage. It's meant to offer a versatile all-mountain directional board with our new Ripsaw profile, since we'll have 2-twins with the Funslinger and Ripsaw. It was a hard decision dropping the Heritage, which was my go to board for years. But, we felt we had that type of board covered with the Chairman and Cobra for that rider. Plus, you'll most likely see a limited edition Heritage from one of our retailers next season. So the board isn't going to entirely disappear next season.


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## 70'sskater

The Chairman said:


> Just to clarify.
> 
> The West wasn't intended to be the replacement for the Heritage. It's meant to offer a versatile all-mountain directional board with our new Ripsaw profile, since we'll have 2-twins with the Funslinger and Ripsaw. It was a hard decision dropping the Heritage, which was my go to board for years. But, we felt we had that type of board covered with the Chairman and Cobra for that rider. Plus, you'll most likely see a limited edition Heritage from one of our retailers next season. So the board isn't going to entirely disappear next season.


Chairman, for the regular width models will you be offering a version thats longer than a 162? Would love to see a 165 or 166 thats about 25.6 wide, 128/129ish effective edge.


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## NevaSummaLuva

The Chairman said:


> NevaSummaLuva said:
> 
> 
> 
> Shit. I just bought a 14/15 snowtrooper and they are making changes already for 15/16?
> 
> 
> 
> Just adding a new model. The Snowtrooper will be un-changed for 15/16. We worked hard on that board and felt we hit the nail on the head. It did well and most of our team, employees are riding and loving the Snowtrooper. The West is basically a Snowtrooper with a bit more edgy, aggressive feel and pop of our enhanced camber Ripsaw profile. Whereas the Snowtooper has the classic surfy feel of our Rocker Camber profile. Same shape, set back, damping system and similar flex (the West inherently feels a bit stiffer because of the profile's cambered areas running underfoot).
Click to expand...

Thanks Vince for the clarification and quick reply. its greatly appreciated


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## kimchijajonshim

The Chairman said:


> The West is basically a Snowtrooper with a bit more edgy, aggressive feel and pop of our enhanced camber Ripsaw profile. Whereas the Snowtooper has the classic surfy feel of our Rocker Camber profile.


Rad. This sounds like the board I've wanted for years: SL shape, little more aggressive, carbonium.


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## snowklinger

Yea its called the ripsaw


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## buggravy

I've ridden the Heritage and Ripsaw a lot, and despite the differences on paper they do ride very similar. The Chairman isn't nearly as one dimensional as one might think either, so for me at least, there really isn't an unfilled gap between the Ripsaw and Chairman (those are my 2 primary rides).

Got out on the West for a couple hours yesterday, but was pretty out of the boards element. Went to Bear (I'm not a fan of Bear) for my 5 year old's first day on snow, so just spent a couple of hours putting around in slushy snow hitting small kickers. Could tell it will be a fun board, and it didn't complain too much about the task at hand, but I didn't get a chance to open it up and see what the board is all about.


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## t21

Never Summer will be at our local mountain this weekend so i definitely demoing the Ripsaw,West and the Chairman if all possible. Reading about all the reviews about this boards just gets me all warm and fuzzy inside:hairy: Who knows, i might actually purchase one and be my one quiver board forever:jumping1:


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## kimchijajonshim

t21 said:


> Never Summer will be at our local mountain this weekend so i definitely demoing the Ripsaw,West and the Chairman if all possible. Reading about all the reviews about this boards just gets me all warm and fuzzy inside:hairy: Who knows, i might actually purchase one and be my one quiver board forever:jumping1:


If it's a standard consumer demo, I'd be surprised if the West is available.


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## t21

kimchijajonshim said:


> If it's a standard consumer demo, I'd be surprised if the West is available.


That would be just fine. I'm just excited to ride one of their boards. I ride the Status Focus board which was pressed at NS factory but i would want to try out their new profile board.


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## timmytard

snowklinger said:


> black ops snowboarding son


Really,:blahblah::blahblah:

Cause, I haven't seen you at a single meeting, gramps.:facepalm1:


That's my new Chair man, not a loaner.

Mine, sent to me, by my crew at "BLACK OPS"

You musta been in the bathroom, the whole time:facepalm3:, every time?


TT


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## linvillegorge

Went flying around on The West again today on a day that felt like it could've been closing day. 44 degrees at the base and fast ass groomers. Love the edge hold on this board and the flex and shape are perfect for me and my riding style. Fantastic board. The newer version of rocker camber with reduced rocker and enhanced camber zones rides like what rocker camber always should've been IMO. The pure freestyle guy may still prefer the older RC with more pronounced rocker characteristics, but for the all-mountain or freeride guy, the new profile is better in just about every way IMO.

First board I've ridden that I can honestly say might be able to supplant the Capita DBX for me. My next time up, I'll bring them both and swap boards halfway through the day.


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## timmytard

linvillegorge said:


> Went flying around on The West again today on a day that felt like it could've been closing day. 44 degrees at the base and fast ass groomers. Love the edge hold on this board and the flex and shape are perfect for me and my riding style. Fantastic board. The newer version of rocker camber with reduced rocker and enhanced camber zones rides like what rocker camber always should've been IMO. The pure freestyle guy may still prefer the older RC with more pronounced rocker characteristics, but for the all-mountain or freeride guy, the new profile is better in just about every way IMO.
> 
> First board I've ridden that I can honestly say might be able to supplant the Capita DBX for me. My next time up, I'll bring them both and swap boards halfway through the day.


Cool! That's what I want to hear.
I just took out my Chairman last night, only got less than 2 hours on it.
The bindings aren't tuned in yet, but so far I like it.
That's not being tuned in too.

That makes me really want to get on that new Ripsaw camber.
Hopefully this week sometime?

Fuck, I'm excited, first time in a while.
Woooooo. Hahaha


TT


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## t21

linvillegorge said:


> Went flying around on The West again today on a day that felt like it could've been closing day. 44 degrees at the base and fast ass groomers. Love the edge hold on this board and the flex and shape are perfect for me and my riding style. Fantastic board. The newer version of rocker camber with reduced rocker and enhanced camber zones rides like what rocker camber always should've been IMO. The pure freestyle guy may still prefer the older RC with more pronounced rocker characteristics, but for the all-mountain or freeride guy, the new profile is better in just about every way IMO.
> 
> First board I've ridden that I can honestly say might be able to supplant the Capita DBX for me. My next time up, I'll bring them both and swap boards halfway through the day.


this^ I finally had the chance to demo the Ripsaw and Chairman last saturday, and one thing i can say about both of them... AMAZING! The Ripsaw is freaking fast,it just wants to go and it will get you there quickly.
The edge hold on it was locked on, it feels like you are on a roller coaster ride while carving. I could literally lay on a carve if i push it but i limit myself on just a forearm drag:jumping1: very quick edge to edge and the turns are smooth. I wanted to try to pop on things but my ribs are still sore.
The only slight negative i have on the Ripsaw was the weight, but it does not matter once you ride it,you do not even notice it.
The Chairman held its own. It is lighter than the Ripsaw and i felt comfortable right away just on my first run. Love this board but Ripsaws' new extended camber profile is just awesome. I believe that the West Has that combination so i would really want to try that too. @ Linvillegorge, how is the weight of the West compared to the Chairman or the Ripsaw?


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## snowklinger

timmytard said:


> Really,:blahblah::blahblah:
> 
> Cause, I haven't seen you at a single meeting, gramps.:facepalm1:
> 
> 
> That's my new Chair man, not a loaner.
> 
> Mine, sent to me, by my crew at "BLACK OPS"
> 
> You musta been in the bathroom, the whole time:facepalm3:, every time?
> 
> 
> TT


yea the bathroom is epic bro.


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## timmytard

snowklinger said:


> yea the bathroom is epic bro.


Ah, little case of the runny bum eh?


TT


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## NevaSummaLuva

The Chairman said:


> Just adding a new model. The Snowtrooper will be un-changed for 15/16. We worked hard on that board and felt we hit the nail on the head. It did well and most of our team, employees are riding and loving the Snowtrooper. The West is basically a Snowtrooper with a bit more edgy, aggressive feel and pop of our enhanced camber Ripsaw profile. Whereas the Snowtooper has the classic surfy feel of our Rocker Camber profile. Same shape, set back, damping system and similar flex (the West inherently feels a bit stiffer because of the profile's cambered areas running underfoot).


Any reason why the side cut radius on the snowtrooper is significantly larger 8.18 for 159 where as many current and previous NS boards are around 7.5? Will this have any effect on edge hold? Loved my SL 158 edge hold on east coast.


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## snowklinger

I will update final thoughts on this next week.

If anyone would like to try this out before I return it, you may do so this Sunday afternoon or possibly Wed am (if you let me know ahead of time) at Loveland. Its a 156, just to remind.


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## snowklinger

*Final thoughts, been on this about 15 days now*

This board in my mind fills the directional all mountain freestyle niche. Whether you think this was a Cobra, Heritage, or SL in the past is all irrelevant, the Ripsaw camber is the gamechanger.

This week got to ride in alot of snow and it just attacked. Lots of air, speed and powder, ruts, chunder, vw moguls, the works. The flex is almost on the softer side of mid (maybe just a tad stiffer than a proto) but feels and handles different because of the camber. Never had any chatter at speed.

It really is a great marriage and solution to keep the dampness in the boards and yet add liveliness and pop.

On groomers this thing wants to eurocarve. I could feel my bindings trying to rotate toward monoski stance. It rides like a springloaded razorblade on hardpack.

The fact that it doesn't wash out or get bucked, combined with the really fun level of flex is one of the things I really like about this board. Too much flex becomes mushy unfun once the snow starts to pile. A twin one is still my holy grail, but we will see if we can press some fun out of the 'slinger and ripsaw and report back on that.

Feel free to ask any questions I feel like I have a pretty firm handle on what this thing is all about.


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## timmytard

snowklinger said:


> This board in my mind fills the directional all mountain freestyle niche. Whether you think this was a Cobra, Heritage, or SL in the past is all irrelevant, the Ripsaw camber is the gamechanger.
> 
> This week got to ride in alot of snow and it just attacked. Lots of air, speed and powder, ruts, chunder, vw moguls, the works. The flex is almost on the softer side of mid (maybe just a tad stiffer than a proto) but feels Andrea handles different because of the camber. Never had any chatter at speed.
> 
> It really is a great marriage and solution to keep the dampness in the boards and yet add liveliness and pop.
> 
> On groomers this thing wants to eurocarve. I could feel my bindings trying to rotate toward monoski stance. It rides like a springloaded razorblade on hardpack.
> 
> The fact that it doesn't wash out or get bucked, combined with the really fun level of flex is one of the things I really like about this board. Too much flex becomes mushy unfun once the snow starts to pile. A twin one is still my holy grail, but we will see if we can press some fun out of the 'slinger and ripsaw and report back on that.
> 
> Feel free to ask any questions I feel like I have a pretty firm handle on what this thing is all about.


The Ripsaw is the twin one


TT


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## linvillegorge

The Ripsaw is a lot stiffer than The West though. Well, the one I rode was anyway. Evidently on the newer ones NS softened the tips a bit.


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## NevaSummaLuva

Did you get to test it on some hard packed/icy stuff? I'm from the east coast and may be selling my Snowtrooper to buy the West next year.

I've been on an SL for the past few years and the edgehold on east coast conditions was excellent


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## linvillegorge

NevaSummaLuva said:


> Did you get to test it on some hard packed/icy stuff? I'm from the east coast and may be selling my Snowtrooper to buy the West next year.
> 
> I've been on an SL for the past few years and the edgehold on east coast conditions was excellent


I read your thread. You want The West.


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## embrion

Which one? I'm also thinking about Snowtrooper vs West.


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## jdang307

I liked the Proto last year, really fun at a small resort like Bear. But after getting on the K2 Happy Hour, and then back on the Proto it really started to feel mushy/soft. Since I'm not a big time park rider, don't really need a twin (I never sought out twins it's just the boards I ended up wanting).

The West looks like the ticket. I'm looking for a camber profile in between the Proto crc and K2 Happy Hour's lifted baseline. Both are enjoyable, but something in between might be the ticket with the ripsaw camber on a softer board.


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## RIDERUK

snowklinger said:


> This board in my mind fills the directional all mountain freestyle niche. Whether you think this was a Cobra, Heritage, or SL in the past is all irrelevant, the Ripsaw camber is the gamechanger.
> 
> This week got to ride in alot of snow and it just attacked. Lots of air, speed and powder, ruts, chunder, vw moguls, the works. *The flex is almost on the softer side of mid (maybe just a tad stiffer than a proto)* but feels and handles different because of the camber. Never had any chatter at speed.
> 
> It really is a great marriage and solution to keep the dampness in the boards and yet add liveliness and pop.
> 
> On groomers this thing wants to eurocarve. I could feel my bindings trying to rotate toward monoski stance. It rides like a springloaded razorblade on hardpack.
> 
> The fact that it doesn't wash out or get bucked, combined with the really fun level of flex is one of the things I really like about this board. Too much flex becomes mushy unfun once the snow starts to pile. A twin one is still my holy grail, but we will see if we can press some fun out of the 'slinger and ripsaw and report back on that.
> 
> Feel free to ask any questions I feel like I have a pretty firm handle on what this thing is all about.


Wait, are you talking about the west?
Seen several other people be describing it as soft/more flexy than the proto?


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## F1EA

RIDERUK said:


> Wait, are you talking about the west?
> Seen several other people be describing it as soft/more flexy than the proto?


I think the one you're talking about (softer-ish than Proto) is the Trooper


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## linvillegorge

RIDERUK said:


> Wait, are you talking about the west?
> Seen several other people be describing it as soft/more flexy than the proto?


I think the West rides stiffer than the Proto, but to be fair I'm comparing slightly different sizes. 157 Proto to 159 The West. The West has is similar in flex to the Heritage IMO.


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## buggravy

West and Snowtrooper are SUPPOSED to have the same flex. I haven't ridden the Snowtrooper to compare. For me personally, the West feels noticeably softer than the Ripsaw (not a noodle by any means though), and I feel like the Ripsaw and Heritage ride really similarly. I haven't ridden the Proto HD, but rode the CT several seasons ago. It felt softer than the SL I was riding at the time, and I don't feel like the flex on the West is dissimilar to the SL, though it is a different feeling board.


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## snowklinger

I think that the flex of the West is quite comparable to the Proto if the Proto had Ripsaw camber.

I'd like to see it stiffened up just a hair.

Maybe cut the setback in half.


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## linvillegorge

I like the flex and setback of The West. :dunno:

If I did go any direction with it though, it would be to make it a hair stiffer. I wouldn't mess with the setback though. 

One thing to realize is that snowklinger is never going to be happy with any amount of setback. :hairy:


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## snowklinger

Yea, imo it really is the replacement for the Cobra with the setback as is.

I agree, leave it. I want a midflexing ripsaw cambered twin still. 

Rode the '56 Funslinger today, it is almost as hard to pop as the Ripsaw in a funny way. Its all skate ollie, you aren't sending shit on it via camber engagement.

I agree that the West and my make believe RipProtoSaw should be a little stiffer. Just like a public hair stiffer. I mean the West is really fun as is.


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## linvillegorge

The thing I found with the Funslinger is that it didn't like to pop off of rollers and the like, but would actually pop hard off of little lips on side hits but your timing had to be just right on it. I never could get much out of the Ripsaw, but that's because my overall ability to ollie sucks anyway and I just don't load up enough to access the pop on a board that stiff. :injured:


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## buggravy

I'm starting to really dig the West. It's a little softer than I was expecting initially, and at first I didn't like that I didn't get that super planted feel I get from the Ripsaw when I'm really trucking. But it has won me over by being crazy nimble, and really fun to pop off side hits and cat tracks with. For a true all-arounder I think it's pretty hard to beat. The Ripsaw profile is where it's at, and I sure hope it keeps trickling into other boards in the NS line. With a Ripsaw in my quiver I was thinking I probably wouldn't end up buying a West next season, but I feel pretty certain now that I will. I'm going to Colorado in a couple of weeks, and since my daughter's gear now comes with us I can only fit one board. The West is the board that's coming.


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## linvillegorge

Yesterday was the first day I've been out on The West when it struggled, but to be fair, 7" of blower pow on top of death crust is just plain difficult conditions. It was just a little too soft for the task at hand when hitting the steeps in those conditions.

Still had a ton of fun on the soft groomers and mellower runs though.

As a one stick quiver solution, this thing is pretty tough.

For me and my preferences, when talking about a one stick solution, it's The West if we're talking CRC, the 157 Capita DBX if we're talking RCR. 

As for the other camber profiles, meh. Those are my two favorites.


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## timmytard

linvillegorge said:


> Yesterday was the first day I've been out on The West when it struggled, but to be fair,* 7" of blower pow on top of death crust *is just plain difficult conditions. It was just a little too soft for the task at hand when hitting the steeps in those conditions.
> 
> Still had a ton of fun on the soft groomers and mellower runs though.
> 
> As a one stick quiver solution, this thing is pretty tough.
> 
> For me and my preferences, when talking about a one stick solution, it's The West if we're talking CRC, the 157 Capita DBX if we're talking RCR.
> 
> As for the other camber profiles, meh. Those are my two favorites.


Isn't that what it's supposed to be good for?

Those conditions would suit it better than the RipSaw no?

TT


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## linvillegorge

Yeah, Ripsaw would've been better due to the stiffness and just having more "guts" to it. The West was still very rideable, I was just getting bucked and thrown around on it quite a bit. Definitely had to be on top of it to keep from getting tossed over the handlebars.

It was just the fact that the crust and ruts were hidden under a blanket of fresh snow that was so blower that it really provided no cushion. When you can see the transitions coming, The West is just fine. But when they're hidden, you definitely have to make sure your weight is centered and your knees are loose and ready.


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## 70'sskater

Has anyone ridden both the SnowTrooper and West? Looking at next yrs catalog the boards seem identical except the West gets a Carbonium topsheet. Same sizes and dimensions, seems kind of redundant. Looks like they changed up the Cobra a bit, might pick up one of those but the West seems like its too similiar to the SnowTrooper to even consider.


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## SGboarder

70'sskater said:


> Has anyone ridden both the SnowTrooper and West? Looking at next yrs catalog the boards seem identical except the West gets a Carbonium topsheet. Same sizes and dimensions, seems kind of redundant. Looks like they changed up the Cobra a bit, might pick up one of those but the West seems like its too similiar to the SnowTrooper to even consider.


Same boards except for the camber profile: West has the Ripsaw profile with more camber, while the Snowtrooper is the traditional NS CRC.
Otherwise the differences are just cosmetic (different graphics, matte vs plastic topsheet).


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## SGboarder

snowklinger said:


> I think that the flex of the West is quite comparable to the Proto if the Proto had Ripsaw camber.
> 
> I'd like to see it stiffened up just a hair.
> 
> Maybe cut the setback in half.





linvillegorge said:


> I like the flex and setback of The West. :dunno:
> 
> If I did go any direction with it though, it would be to make it a hair stiffer. I wouldn't mess with the setback though.
> 
> One thing to realize is that snowklinger is never going to be happy with any amount of setback. :hairy:


As I said (http://www.snowboardingforum.com/boards/163257-never-summer-west-3.html#post2085609): Should be burlier in order to be a potential Heritage replacement. I guess the revised Cobra is that board now...


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## Fireman Jim

Hey ... Looking at the 2015/16 brochure and specs this board seems to be the livelier brother of the snow trooper? Dimensions are exactly the same, just has the Ripsaw CRC profile so I'm struggling to see it's a Cobra. Has anyone clarified any of this with NS?


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## buggravy

Fireman Jim said:


> Hey ... Looking at the 2015/16 brochure and specs this board seems to be the livelier brother of the snow trooper? Dimensions are exactly the same, just has the Ripsaw CRC profile so I'm struggling to see it's a Cobra. Has anyone clarified any of this with NS?


Yeah, The Chairman mentioned in another post that the West is essentially the same shape, flex, and damping as the Snowtrooper, but with the Ripsaw profile and Carbonium treatment. So in essence a souped up Snowtrooper, sort of like the Cobra was to the SL when it came out. The Cobra is supposedly stiffened up a bit for next year, so I guess the argument could be made that it's sort of filling the shoes of the defunct Heritage.


----------



## Fireman Jim

Thanks for the reply but to be honest I don't believe it matters what this board is replacing just what it really is ... Pleased to hear it's a snow trooper on Haribo as the snow trooper is a great board but was missing bite and rebound, which makes it a bit dull unless your riding pow or soft conditions. Let's get the camber back in these boards guys ... Rockers a thumbs up but every suspension fork needs rebound.


----------



## timmytard

Fireman Jim said:


> Thanks for the reply but to be honest I don't believe it matters what this board is replacing just what it really is ... Pleased to hear it's a snow trooper on Haribo as the snow trooper is a great board but was missing bite and rebound, which makes it a bit dull unless your riding pow or soft conditions. Let's get the camber back in these boards guys ... Rockers a thumbs up but every suspension fork needs rebound.


That's what the new profile is, more camber.

And there is definitely more camber.

I've got 2 full days A Whistler on the West X 160.

One thing I've noticed on the bullet proof cat tracks is, I can bounce ,ever so slightly, and feel the camber compressing & popping me back up. 

This is something I haven't felt on any of their old R/C camber profiles.
Even the bigger, wide models of the old R/C camber profile.
Which if I was gonna feel it, it woulda been on one of those.


TT


----------



## F1EA

Rode the 160X this weekend. Pretty good board. Couldnt event tell it was a wide.

Basically, this board addresses a lot of the problems i had with the Cobra, but still keeps all the benefits. I think the extended camber is a winner; obviously, for people who like the CRC profile. If you're a full camber or even RCR devotee, then this still doesn't ride like camber.

I think the only thing i felt slightly lacking was the front contact edge hold, but that probably had a lot to do with the fact i wasn't riding it on my Now Drives and i was riding a full camber board before and after the West. It was also pretty slushy so you can't be too aggressive against slush.

But yeah, suuuper agile, awesome turn initiation and finish, playful with decent stability (it is not very stable, just decent) and dampness, massive pop, feels floaty. I'd ride this board. Maybe go longer though..... 163cm or so.

TT likes the Ripsaw more.... I'm not sure. I definitely want to try the West on a good snow day.


----------



## casey2121

F1EA said:


> Rode the 160X this weekend. Pretty good board. Couldnt event tell it was a wide.
> 
> Basically, this board addresses a lot of the problems i had with the Cobra, but still keeps all the benefits. I think the extended camber is a winner; obviously, for people who like the CRC profile. If you're a full camber or even RCR devotee, then this still doesn't ride like camber.
> 
> I think the only thing i felt slightly lacking was the front contact edge hold, but that probably had a lot to do with the fact i wasn't riding it on my Now Drives and i was riding a full camber board before and after the West. It was also pretty slushy so you can't be too aggressive against slush.
> 
> But yeah, suuuper agile, awesome turn initiation and finish, *playful with decent stability (it is not very stable, just decent)* and dampness, massive pop, feels floaty. I'd ride this board. Maybe go longer though..... 163cm or so.
> 
> TT likes the Ripsaw more.... I'm not sure. I definitely want to try the West on a good snow day.



If its not too much trouble, could you elaborate on the "not very stable" aspect of your review? Did you find it not stable at high speed? While flat boarding? Due to conditions? Thanks for the updated review....


----------



## linvillegorge

I personally wouldn't say that The West lacks stability, it's just not overly damp. Kind of middle of the road in terms of dampness.


----------



## F1EA

casey2121 said:


> If its not too much trouble, could you elaborate on the "not very stable" aspect of your review? Did you find it not stable at high speed? While flat boarding? Due to conditions? Thanks for the updated review....


No problem at all on catracks. In fact, this is a big improvement over the traditional NS rocker camber....... 

Decent stability = 
If it's choppy you will get bucked around. But for a board as lively and soft as the West, I think it's not too bad. So... decent stability. 

It is not as bad as on the Cobra or other lively rockered boards; but I ride mostly cambered boards and THAT's stability. The downside is you gotta commit and dive into your turns a bit more on camber, because it is more stable and grippier. Again, I rode my Dupraz D1+ right before and after the West, so that's a bit of tough competition for the West in terms of stability. But the way the NS sidecut and profile goes into and out of turns is nice and breezy.

Similarly..... TT really likes the Ripsaw, and I think I can see why. I've seen him riding the West as well and notice the difference. When i was riding this West he was on the Ripsaw and man he was blasting shit on the Ripsaw... while the times he was on the West I've seen him get thrown around a lot more and ride with a lot less confidence. But, the West is really playful and agile and has lots of pop.... so i guess it depends what you want. I'm sure the West would be good fun on smooth powder too.


----------



## casey2121

Thanks F1EA.... Appreciate the info


----------



## timmytard

F1EA said:


> No problem at all on catracks. In fact, this is a big improvement over the traditional NS rocker camber.......
> 
> Decent stability =
> If it's choppy you will get bucked around. But for a board as lively and soft as the West, I think it's not too bad. So... decent stability.
> 
> It is not as bad as on the Cobra or other lively rockered boards; but I ride mostly cambered boards and THAT's stability. The downside is you gotta commit and dive into your turns a bit more on camber, because it is more stable and grippier. Again, I rode my Dupraz D1+ right before and after the West, so that's a bit of tough competition for the West in terms of stability. But the way the NS sidecut and profile goes into and out of turns is nice and breezy.
> 
> Similarly..... TT really likes the Ripsaw, and I think I can see why. I've seen him riding the West as well and notice the difference. When i was riding this West he was on the Ripsaw and man he was blasting shit on the Ripsaw... while the times he was on the West I've seen him get thrown around a lot more and ride with a lot less confidence. But, the West is really playful and agile and has lots of pop.... so i guess it depends what you want. I'm sure the West would be good fun on smooth powder too.


Less confidence? No such thing:hairy:

I think in my excitement:jumping1:, I chose too hastily.:embarrased1:

I think I may just be a little too aggressive:hairy: for the West?
Even in the wide model, which makes it a little burlier:embarrased1:
This is not their dropping big cliffs board, it's more of an all a rounder.

It will drop big cliffs, but when you land, you are know hauling ass through everything, you don't get to pick your line anymore.

You have committed already, you gotta ride that fucker out now.
That's where the Ripsaw shines, it eats that shit.


TT 


I think the Cobra, might have suited me a little better? Not sure?


----------



## F1EA

timmytard said:


> Less confidence? No such thing:hairy:
> 
> I think in my excitement:jumping1:, I choose too hastily.:embarrased1:
> 
> I think I may just be a little too aggressive:hairy: for the West?
> Even in the wide model, which makes it a little burlier:embarrased1:
> This is not their dropping big cliffs board, it's more of an all a rounder.
> 
> It will drop big cliffs, but when you land, you are know hauling ass through everything, you don't get to pick your line anymore.
> 
> You have committed already, you gotta ride that fucker out now.
> That's where the Ripsaw shines, it eats that shit.
> 
> 
> TT
> 
> 
> I think the Cobra, might have suited me a little better? Not sure?


Hahahaha yeah. The Ripsaw defintely matches your excitement better.

As for the Cobra vs West... the West is softer (especially tip-tail), but more stable. Better through chop, better on faster turns, way better on cat tracks etc. and only a tiny bit less agile.

But would the 160x West be better in powder? not sure, probably yeah. I had a 158 non-wide Cobra... comparing to a 160 wide West would be unfair.

I still like the West better than the Cobra, but i should have had a ~162ish Cobra.


----------



## snowklinger

The biggest difference between the West and Ripsaw aside from the obvious is that you can ride the West in pow. The Ripsaw will just dive.


----------



## F1EA

snowklinger said:


> The biggest difference between the West and Ripsaw aside from the obvious is that you can ride the West in pow. The Ripsaw will just dive.


Isn't the Ripsaw stiffer? i think it is.


----------



## snowklinger

F1EA said:


> Isn't the Ripsaw stiffer? i think it is.


Yea thats why I said obvious. If you ride larger sizes you will get pop from the Ripsaw because of leverage. The little 156 I rode was like riding a 2x8.

I struggled emotionally with the setback on the West as I just wanted it to be a twin. Sometimes we have to realize that we can't change every board to be every board. They need to be what they are, making slight changes because someone says "well it doesn't feed my dog or wipe my ass for me".....you get my point.

After riding the Ripsaw I realize how much that setback on the West is a gamechanger by allowing the extra camber to function as intended, while still allowing it to go anywhere, even the deep stuff.

By the same token, the 'Slinger is the EXACT same profile as the Ripsaw, and was noticeably more fun in 1' fresh (attributed to the softer flex). If you are entering deeper poo poo than that, let it be fair to say you are just on the wrong board.

Stay tuned for more thoughts on these three boards, the original CRC and what it means in light of Ripsaw. Some time this summer when I get around to it.


----------



## F1EA

Ahh i thought the obvious was twin vs setback

Also a bit more aggressive sidecut on the ripsaw.


----------



## timmytard

snowklinger said:


> Yea thats why I said obvious. If you ride larger sizes you will get pop from the Ripsaw because of leverage. The little 156 I rode was like riding a 2x8.
> 
> I struggled emotionally with the setback on the West as I just wanted it to be a twin. Sometimes we have to realize that we can't change every board to be every board. They need to be what they are, making slight changes because someone says "well it doesn't feed my dog or wipe my ass for me".....you get my point.
> 
> After riding the Ripsaw I realize how much that setback on the West is a gamechanger by allowing the extra camber to function as intended, while still allowing it to go anywhere, even the deep stuff.
> 
> By the same token, the 'Slinger is the EXACT same profile as the Ripsaw, and was noticeably more fun in 1' fresh (attributed to the softer flex). If you are entering deeper poo poo than that, let it be fair to say you are just on the wrong board.
> 
> Stay tuned for more thoughts on these three boards, the original CRC and what it means in light of Ripsaw. Some time this summer when I get around to it.


How much do you weigh?

You guys pick fuckin' small boards, holy moly.

Dude, I'm having the exact opposite problem, haha

On paper, I should love the West way more.:jumping1:
It has most of the things I look for in a board.

I'm sure you've heard me say a million times, twins are retarded, they're meant for pipe & park, that's it.

I've never liked em, I can ride switch just fine.
And I ride switch more than everyone I know, so no need for a twin.

I fuckin' love that Ripsaw, it blows me away.

I've never been as fast *& * felt so comfortable doing it.

Which to me is fuckin' weird, in theory it should be easier do design something that goes faster in one direction, than you can design something to go either direction the same.

Everything in the world, is an example, pretty much.
bullets, rockets, you name it, not a twin.

Now here is the big mind melter for me.

I can ride switch fine, I've already said that.
But, I've never been able to carve as good as I can riding normal.

On Saturday, I was digging trenches switch.
I honestly was blown away, to the point of laughing out loud, because I never thought/ or tried to before.

When that first carve dug in and railed, I wasn't sure if this was just a fluke?
I've never dug in like that before, switch
Took a second to get used to how much leaning you have to do to get locked in.

I was linking trenches switch & laughing out loud whilst doing it.

I'm sure the West is better than the RipSaw in the deep.
I've had the West out in almost deep snow.
Not bad

But the Swift slays that pow, so even if there's a bit of it, I'm on that.


TT


----------



## snowklinger

I weigh about 165-170lbs.


----------



## casey2121

Good conversation and analysis.. just the info I've been looking for. I'll also stay tuned for snowklingers update later in the summer.

I'm a relatively new rider who has progressed well on a few boards that are basically flat with rocker at the contact points. I'm looking to step into something more dynamic (CRC or RC). Its been great learning and progressing on the F/R profiles but I'm at the point where the easy of use and forgiveness is starting to allow some bad habits edge to edge and at speed. Not to mention the boards are kinda blah in certain situations.

I think moving to a RC or CRC will keep me on my toes and force me to step up my game and help me become more technically sound.

It reminds me of learning how to shoot a compound bow. The entry level stuff allows you to learn to a certain level with decent accuracy. Eventually you hit the point where no matter how sound your mechanics are, you won't squeeze out any additional accuracy. Stepping up to a more technical bow with better accessories opens up more ability to fine tune your skills and pinpoint accuracy. Hope that makes sense.

I'm hoping the West will be the right ride to allow me to go to that next level... better carves, more pop yada yada yada. 

Thanks for the detailed info fellas... I'll keep my eye out for more info...


----------



## snowklinger

It is also worth noting that the famous dampness of NS goes away quite a bit under Ripsaw engagement. Of course having your board spring loaded to the surface you are destroying is kind of the point of camber right?

Anyway, they probably still have rubber and dampening per se, but again, having the camber loaded the way it does lends to a livelier ride.

By the same token I had alot more fun using a 156 FSlinger as an all mountain ride than I did the 154 EVO. I really took it into alot of conditions where I expected it to fold and buck, but instead I got feedback and pop. Weirdly enough it really isn't comparable to the Proto though, as the Proto is significantly more damp, has more float, less pop...both great all mountain park boards with totally different attitudes. I'd like to size up on my next Proto and use it exclusively as a twin pow stick, and probably continue with the 156 Funslinger. It really is too soft for what I have and will put it through, but...so fun.

I think I said earlier in the thread but I probably had my best day ever ability wise on the West in about 1' of pow with dumping conditions, just blasting VW sized mogul fields at speed and pointing it where ever.

I like how the Funslinger ollies though, the amount of setback on the West gives it alot of versatility so that camber doesn't dive in pow.

unedited top of head stuff after a long day of work decompressing.


----------



## timmytard

snowklinger said:


> It is also worth noting that the famous dampness of NS goes away quite a bit under Ripsaw engagement. Of course having your board spring loaded to the surface you are destroying is kind of the point of camber right?
> 
> Anyway, they probably still have rubber and dampening per se, but again, having the camber loaded the way it does lends to a livelier ride.
> 
> By the same token I had alot more fun using a 156 FSlinger as an all mountain ride than I did the 154 EVO. I really took it into alot of conditions where I expected it to fold and buck, but instead I got feedback and pop. Weirdly enough it really isn't comparable to the Proto though, as the Proto is significantly more damp, has more float, less pop...both great all mountain park boards with totally different attitudes. I'd like to size up on my next Proto and use it exclusively as a twin pow stick, and probably continue with the 156 Funslinger. It really is too soft for what I have and will put it through, but...so fun.
> 
> I think I said earlier in the thread but I probably had my best day ever ability wise on the West in about 1' of pow with dumping conditions, just blasting VW sized mogul fields at speed and pointing it where ever.
> 
> I like how the Funslinger ollies though, the amount of setback on the West gives it alot of versatility so that camber doesn't dive in pow.
> 
> unedited top of head stuff after a long day of work decompressing.


The NS demo guys were up @ whistler a couple weeks ago.

Having never tried the Funslinger, I figured it would be way better for spring & park.

So I asked one of the dudeds if I could trade the West for the slinger? Haha he thought I meant for the day? haha
No forever I told him. haha.

Long story short.,....

I had a couple hours on the slanger X 57.
changed my mind about the swap, haha

I am just not a park guy anymore, sure I go in there & fuck around, but natural features, that's what gives me a hard on.:embarrased1:

I see different lines than most people:jumping1:
a lot of them, are insane, haha, probably won't ever get to do them?

But only cause there's not enough snow.:hairy:
When I show people what I want to do, they don't even believe me. lol

To me though, that shit seems easier than any large feature in the park.

I picture a ball, rolling down the fall line, following the contours of the land.

If the ball makes it over?
So do I:jumping1:

I didn't think you could take those line in the spring @ Whistler

Oh, but you can. haha.



casey2121, the West will be plenty enough board for you, of course you can get anyone you want?

You have to take my impression that the West is soft, with a grain of salt.
I usually am on the stiffest decks I can find. So that's in comparison to those.

It definitely isn't a soft deck, especially cause I'm on a wide model, with size 9 booties & I guess slightly smaller boobies than Klanger? He's got about 10 lbs on me.

Just that right there should show you the versatility?

I weigh less & ride longer fatter boards, That's what works for me where I am.

Klangdog's got 10 pounds on me & looks like he might be due soon? (haha haha just fuckin' whit chya there klangdawg, don't be gettin' all squirrely on me)

But I guess he must not get much powder?


This is where I ride for the most part:hairy: 
3 years ago, oh my fuckin' gawd. 10 feet in under a week @ one point.
They had to bring in excavators to dig out the ticket building.

2012/13 Winter Season was 1109 cm - over 36 feet! (mid mtn)
2011/12 Winter Season was 1175 cm - over 39 feet! (mid mtn)
2010/11 Winter Season was 1408 cm - over 45 feet! (mid mtn)



TT


----------



## F1EA

Yeah I'm about the same weight as Klinger.... a few extra hotdogs. And 10.5 boots. 

The 160X West felt perfect. I wouldnt get a smaller one, but I would go longer for powder. It is medium flex. Really medium.

For people in general..... if you're certain you like the surfy feel of CRC then this is a good board. If you're sort of "looking to see what you prefer", then try something with a RCR profile and compare.

I find the RCR more versatile because it handles everything better; i find the CRC more fun because in good conditions it is super fun to ride and whip around. So i guess for building a quiver... adding a CRC to a mostly camber quiver is nice. For a 1 board thing... I'd have a RCR.


----------



## Mig Fullbag

timmytard said:


> I picture a ball, rolling down the fall line, following the contours of the land.


Craig Kelly...


----------



## F1EA

Mig Fullbag said:


> Craig Kelly...


But he got killed so... he was wrong.


----------



## Mig Fullbag

Mig Fullbag said:


> Craig Kelly...





F1EA said:


> But he got killed so... he was wrong.


That is borderline blasphemous...


----------



## F1EA

Mig Fullbag said:


> That is borderline blasphemous...


LOL
Definitely not the "popular" opinion... buuuuuut.......


----------



## Mig Fullbag

F1EA said:


> LOL
> Definitely not the "popular" opinion... buuuuuut.......


This was discretly printed on all my 2013 boards, so not "popular" with me...


----------



## jdang307

I wish NS had a deck in between the Ripsaw and the West, if what I'm reading about the West is true. I ride a Proto right now, and I really don't have problems with speed at resorts like Canyons, Snowbird, Mammoth etc. but I'd like something that is a good notch burlier. Is the Ripsaw too much? A board with the ripsaw profile, set back, but a bit stiffer than the Proto is what I'm looking for.

I have a K2 Happy Hour that is perfect stiffness for what I want. A good bit stiffer than the Proto HD but not a plank. Is the West that stiff? If so that's perfect. If it's Proto HD flex then it's still a bit too soft for what I'm looking for (ripping groomers and jumping off hits). Maybe the Ripsaw is what I need but I really don't want a twin again.


----------



## linvillegorge

I sort of agree. I like The West A LOT, but I honestly think I'd like it even more if it had the flex of the Heritage. I've never wanted it to be softer, but occasionally I would like it to be a little stiffer.


----------



## ShredLife

F1EA said:


> But he got killed so... he was wrong.


you're a fucking pussy. 


go sit inside for the rest of your life.


----------



## F1EA

ShredLife said:


> you're a fucking pussy.
> 
> 
> go sit inside for the rest of your life.


Good idea!


----------



## SGboarder

jdang307 said:


> I wish NS had a deck in between the Ripsaw and the West, if what I'm reading about the West is true. I ride a Proto right now, and I really don't have problems with speed at resorts like Canyons, Snowbird, Mammoth etc. but I'd like something that is a good notch burlier. Is the Ripsaw too much? A board with the ripsaw profile, set back, but a bit stiffer than the Proto is what I'm looking for.
> 
> I have a K2 Happy Hour that is perfect stiffness for what I want. A good bit stiffer than the Proto HD but not a plank. Is the West that stiff? If so that's perfect. If it's Proto HD flex then it's still a bit too soft for what I'm looking for (ripping groomers and jumping off hits). Maybe the Ripsaw is what I need but I really don't want a twin again.





linvillegorge said:


> I sort of agree. I like The West A LOT, but I honestly think I'd like it even more if it had the flex of the Heritage. I've never wanted it to be softer, but occasionally I would like it to be a little stiffer.


Like I was saying back in January:



SGboarder said:


> So is there going to be a successor or a deck similar in spirit to the Heritage? Call it a big-mountain freestyle directional twin? Seems like a bit of a gap in the product line-up - I want something more burly than the Cobra/West but not as directional/tapered and planky as the Chairman


Cobra is supposed to be beefed up for next season and maybe fill the Heritage gap - but felt the same to me...


----------



## jdang307

Not a fan of the Cobra shape (had one, it was okay). If the West was one tick above the SL say, it'd be perfect.


----------



## F1EA

jdang307 said:


> Not a fan of the Cobra shape (had one, it was okay). If the West was one tick above the SL say, it'd be perfect.


Yeah you guys are right. The Cobra has a very deep sidecut, and yet it is stiffer, but has more rocker than the West. Don't get it. The Cobra could be softer as the ammount of rocker and sidecut won't let it be too aggressive anyways; also, stiff and rocker is not that fun. The West has less rocker, mellower sidecut and yet... it feels softer; when it could definitely be stiffer. 

Both are ok, but i guess to ride what their description says you gotta size up.


----------



## jdang307

F1EA said:


> Yeah you guys are right. The Cobra has a very deep sidecut, and yet it is stiffer, but has more rocker than the West. Don't get it. The Cobra could be softer as the ammount of rocker and sidecut won't let it be too aggressive anyways; also, stiff and rocker is not that fun. The West has less rocker, mellower sidecut and yet... it feels softer; when it could definitely be stiffer.
> 
> Both are ok, but i guess to ride what their description says you gotta size up.


Or just get a Ripsaw. Is the ripsaw that burly? Can someone with chicken legs like me ollie it? I'm mountain biking this year so hopefully my women legs will be stronger by next season.


----------



## SGboarder

jdang307 said:


> Or just get a Ripsaw. Is the ripsaw that burly? Can someone with chicken legs like me ollie it? I'm mountain biking this year so hopefully my women legs will be stronger by next season.


No setback, no nose rocker - less float than many full camber directional decks. Basically useless in Japan other than in the jump line.


----------



## SGboarder

F1EA said:


> Yeah you guys are right. The Cobra has a very deep sidecut, and yet it is stiffer, but has more rocker than the West. Don't get it. The Cobra could be softer as the ammount of rocker and sidecut won't let it be too aggressive anyways; also, stiff and rocker is not that fun. The West has less rocker, mellower sidecut and yet... it feels softer; when it could definitely be stiffer.
> 
> Both are ok, but i guess to ride what their description says you gotta size up.


Because the Cobra is really an all-mountain freestyle board at heart (plus Never Summer's best tree board) - basically what most people probably should be buying instead of the Proto.
Heritage was also basically a freestyle board (sidecut was even deeper than on the Cobra), but more burly/of the big-mountain variety.

West and Snowtrooper look more like all-around/slightly more freeride boards.


----------



## buggravy

If I had to create my ultimate board it would probably be a slightly stiffer/damper West, so in that respect I guess it was a little burlier. That said, I really love it for what it is, and with the other boards that they have in the line I think it makes sense that it sits where it does. The Ripsaw rides a LOT like the Heritage for me. For someone that rode a Heritage as a one board quiver, and doesn't want to replace it with a true twin Ripsaw, I think the Chairman fits that bill nicely. Not nearly as one dimensional as the Raptor (again, for me), and just a lot more versatile than the marketing/specs might imply, especially in a smaller size, where it's still plenty burly. Ripsaw and West are very different boards, but not so radically different that they really need something in between the two, and I guess the Cobra may be there for someone who really wants that. I do wish they'd just go Ripsaw camber throughout the line.


----------



## Nolefan2011

Without inisghting a riot, there are two Mervin boards that might fit the profile of what a few of you are looking for. Directional, camber dominant, damp, and mellow mag so that you don't over grip.

Lib Tech Jamie Lynn Classic, and GNU Billy Goat.

Sold my T Rice and picked up a Lynn Classic because I had the same dilemma. Wanted a directional camber dominant damp board with more pop.


----------



## F1EA

Nolefan2011 said:


> Without inisghting a riot, there are two Mervin boards that might fit the profile of what a few of you are looking for. Directional, camber dominant, damp, and mellow mag so that you don't over grip.
> 
> Lib Tech Jamie Lynn Classic, and GNU Billy Goat.
> 
> Sold my T Rice and picked up a Lynn Classic because I had the same dilemma. Wanted a directional camber dominant damp board with more pop.


Yep. Lib has a lot more boards at that flex region, and with camber dominant profiles. They maybe have TOO much selection though, it's all a bit confusing when you look at all ther boards. Next yr i'm going to try and try a couple.



buggravy said:


> If I had to create my ultimate board it would probably be a slightly stiffer/damper West, so in that respect I guess it was a little burlier. That said, I really love it for what it is, and with the other boards that they have in the line I think it makes sense that it sits where it does. The Ripsaw rides a LOT like the Heritage for me. For someone that rode a Heritage as a one board quiver, and doesn't want to replace it with a true twin Ripsaw, I think the Chairman fits that bill nicely. Not nearly as one dimensional as the Raptor (again, for me), and just a lot more versatile than the marketing/specs might imply, especially in a smaller size, where it's still plenty burly. Ripsaw and West are very different boards, but not so radically different that they really need something in between the two, and I guess the Cobra may be there for someone who really wants that. I do wish they'd just go Ripsaw camber throughout the line.


Exactly. A slightly stiffer/damper West would be perfect. The Chairman and Raptor boards sound a bit intimidating, but i guess thats the problem with the way they describe all boards hehe they all sound more aggressive than they really are  but yeah, the ripsaw camber is a winner and i also like the vario grip, which is really a subtle thing, but it works pretty well.


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## snowklinger

One of the things about the flex of the West is that it allows the tip to overcome that ripsaw camber in pow. The nice thing is that camber also keeps the tips from flopping to much at speed.


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## SGboarder

buggravy said:


> If I had to create my ultimate board it would probably be a slightly stiffer/damper West, so in that respect I guess it was a little burlier. That said, I really love it for what it is, and with the other boards that they have in the line I think it makes sense that it sits where it does. *The Ripsaw rides a LOT like the Heritage for me.* For someone that rode a Heritage as a one board quiver, and doesn't want to replace it with a true twin Ripsaw, I think the Chairman fits that bill nicely. Not nearly as one dimensional as the Raptor (again, for me), and just a lot more versatile than the marketing/specs might imply, especially in a smaller size, where it's still plenty burly. Ripsaw and West are very different boards, but not so radically different that they really need something in between the two, and I guess the Cobra may be there for someone who really wants that. I do wish they'd just go Ripsaw camber throughout the line.


Except in powder where the Heritage is considerably better. The traditional CRC profile is just much better in powder than the Ripsaw profile. I suppose that is why all the Never Summer decks that that are designed with powder in mind (Swift, Chairman, to a lesser extent Cobra and even lesser extent the Snowtrooper) have the traditional profile.

The Ripsaw profile just does not work where I do most of my riding. Maybe if they were to add taper, but then the board becomes much more directional...


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## linvillegorge

The West handles powder very well. Better than the Cobra (well, the old one anyone; haven't tried the new one). It's really not even close.


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## SGboarder

linvillegorge said:


> The West handles powder very well. Better than the Cobra (well, the old one anyone; haven't tried the new one). It's really not even close.


Totally disagree. My experience it was the exact opposite, the Cobra is miles better. Maybe the snow here really is different...


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## linvillegorge

SGboarder said:


> Totally disagree. My experience it was the exact opposite, the Cobra is miles better. Maybe the snow here really is different...


Which year Cobra? Like I said, I haven't ridden the new one. I owned a 2013 though and was very underwhelmed by it in deep stuff. Size wasn't the issue either. 158 on the Cobra and 159 on The West.


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## SGboarder

linvillegorge said:


> Which year Cobra? Like I said, I haven't ridden the new one. I owned a 2013 though and was very underwhelmed by it in deep stuff. Size wasn't the issue either. 158 on the Cobra and 159 on The West.


Same, I have the 2013 Brothers in Arms Cobra. I trialed the 2016 demo/prototype but did not think it was much different.


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## linvillegorge

Weird. No clue, man. 

IMO, The West is a lot better in the pow. Different strokes for different folks.


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## timmytard

I bumped into the never Summer team on their way back from AK, about 2 weeks ago.:hairy:

Now nobody "said"which/what was a better pow board, 

but.......

There were 5 dudes. This is what I seen mounted on the trailer.

4 swifts & 2 Cobras, everything else was wrapped up.

I haven't been on the Cobra, so, I can't tell ya?

From the short little conversation we had.

It's the spade tail on the Cobra, that's what makes it the #2 pow board in the NS line up.

Apparently even better in the real deep, than the Chairman, even with the Chairman's little bit of taper.


TT


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## linvillegorge

There's a new NS stick coming and I think this will be the one for me. The quiver killer.

As to the notion of the Cobra being the #2 powder board in the NS lineup... :rofl2:

I don't think The Chairman is all that great of a pow stick either, especially when it's really deep. It doesn't really float, it just wants to plow through everything in it's path. The West will float. 

IMO, the Cobra was a really good idea that just didn't work out the way it was intended. It's a much better board on paper than it is on snow. There isn't a single thing that board does better than some other board in the NS lineup. Before The West, I would've said it was the best board in the lineup for tight trees, but The West supplanted it there too. 

I was never a huge fan of the Cobra myself.

And I don't say that to knock the Cobra. I owned a Cobra for about a season and a half myself. If you have one and you dig it, then that's all that matters. Different strokes for different folks.


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## jdang307

Have you been on the Ripsaw linvillegorge? I'm torn because the two boards are on either side of what I'm wanting. Something that will just rip the resort and run everything over. But I don't want to give up too much on agility. I'm not asking for the master of all trades, just deciding where I need to compromise.


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## F1EA

I agree with this guy.

MAYBE i should have had a 162 Cobra instead of 158, it would have been closer to what the board seemed to be on paper. In fact, after riding the West 160 in wide... I'm thinking a ~162X Cobra would have been pretty nice. But the West just felt like exactly what the Cobra wants to be.

I don't know though. Seems like a lot of tinkering around when you can just get a Black Snowboard of Death, Flight Attendant, Berzerker etc and be done with it. But obviously if i had a quiver full of those types of boards, the West or a bigger Cobra would be a nice surfy ride to add.


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## timmytard

linvillegorge said:


> I have seen and put my hands on the Cobra's replacement. I think this will be the one for me. The quiver killer.
> 
> As to the notion of the Cobra being the #2 powder board in the NS lineup... :rofl2:
> 
> I don't think The Chairman is all that great of a pow stick either, especially when it's really deep. It doesn't really float, it just wants to plow through everything in it's path. The West will float.
> 
> IMO, the Cobra was a really good idea that just didn't work out the way it was intended. It's a much better board on paper than it is on snow. There isn't a single thing that board does better than some other board in the NS lineup. Before The West, I would've said it was the best board in the lineup for tight trees, but The West supplanted it there too.
> 
> The Cobra is getting bounced from the lineup for a reason.
> 
> And I don't say that to knock the Cobra. I owned a Cobra for about a season and a half myself. If you have one and you dig it, then that's all that matters. Different strokes for different folks.



I only had a couple hours on the Chairman & it was a regular width one.

I dig the wides:hairy:
And I've never ridden the Cobra.

I may have chosen too hastily when I picked the West?
The Cobra, on paper, seems to be a better fit for what I like to do on a snowboard.

I guess saying the Cobra was #2 for pow, was an assumption.
Based on the fact that 2 of them were mounted up.



I've got next years catalog here & the Cobra is in it.

So are you saying you've seen 2 years into future?


TT


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## linvillegorge

jdang307 said:


> Have you been on the Ripsaw linvillegorge? I'm torn because the two boards are on either side of what I'm wanting. Something that will just rip the resort and run everything over. But I don't want to give up too much on agility. I'm not asking for the master of all trades, just deciding where I need to compromise.


I'm not overly fond of true twins, so I'm a little biased on the Ripsaw. Give the Ripsaw a bit of setback and I'd really dig it. If you want a really aggressive true twin with great edge hold, it's definitely what you're looking for.


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## jdang307

Yeah I'm not looking for a twin either (hence me wishing the West was beefier).

But I've ridden twins the past two years (Happy Hour and Proto) so fuck it. What's another couple. My small boot size prevent me from wanting a lot of other good looking boards that might fit the ticket. The NS non-wides are just on the cusp of what I should be riding, if not slightly too wide still. But the WW on the Ripsaw looks promising.

Man can't find a 153 from this year anywhere. Was hoping to score a discount.


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## larrytbull

jdang307 said:


> Yeah I'm not looking for a twin either (hence me wishing the West was beefier).
> 
> But I've ridden twins the past two years (Happy Hour and Proto) so fuck it. What's another couple. My small boot size prevent me from wanting a lot of other good looking boards that might fit the ticket. The NS non-wides are just on the cusp of what I should be riding, if not slightly too wide still. But the WW on the Ripsaw looks promising.
> 
> Man can't find a 153 from this year anywhere. Was hoping to score a discount.


There is a 156 here if you want to size up a tad
Never Summer Ripsaw snowboard 2015 buy online :hairy:


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## jdang307

larrytbull said:


> There is a 156 here if you want to size up a tad
> Never Summer Ripsaw snowboard 2015 buy online :hairy:


Might be TOO burly for me ... 

I'm 145 wet and wearing boots


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## timmytard

jdang307 said:


> Might be TOO burly for me ...
> 
> I'm 145 wet and wearing boots


Well there you go right there.

The West is hardly gonna be a Noodle.

At that weight you are gonna have to work hard to make her your bitch.

I got like 20 pounds on you.
And I am going LARGE, nobody ever wants to go off the shit I wanna do.

F1EA,  he's got 20 pounds on me.:eyetwitch2:

That's why he thinks it's soft.

I don't think it's that soft, just softer in comparison.

The Rip-Saw isn't that stiff, it's just.
I don't know, haha.

Perplexing?

On paper, yuck. Haha, for me & how I ride.
Twins don't make sense.
And don't ride as well.

So why is it so much better, maybe better isn't the right word?

I don't think I've ever been as fast as I have been on the Rip-Saw.

And this just had me laughing out loud, I felt it just by accident.
But there's no mistaking it when it happens.

I honestly ride fakie quite a bit, but never, & I mean NEVER, even for a second, have I been able to lock into a carve like I ridin' goofy.

After feelin' it for the first, ever.
I was linking huge trench digging carves that were locked in.



TT


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## F1EA

Yeah the West is not that soft. It's jut softer than i thought it would be, and don't know why the ripsaw being twin and with a deeper sidecut... is stiffer. 

If you're ~145 the 156 should be perfect mid flex. But i would get a 158 if you want to float on it.


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## snowklinger

The 156 floated me at 175lbs.


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## linvillegorge

Yeah, 156 would be more than enough at 145. I was riding a 159 at 190+ and having no issues staying up.


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## F1EA

snowklinger said:


> The 156 floated me at 175lbs.


Man you ride tiny boards!!

Yeah i floated ok on a 158 cobra. But a 161 Charlie and 165 D1+ is a whole different ballgame. 

What i liked most ablut the West is that even at 160 Wide the thing was very agile and handled like a smaller board (i did have stiff boots). Didnt ride it in pow but TT did and he's sort of on the fence on it. I'm sure i'd be ok in the 160X.

So for Jdang for sure 156-158 should do the trick. But in my experience with NS boards, i would always size up because the agility is there, and the boards are not too stiff.


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## jdang307

It's my small feets and waist width that concern me with the larger sizes (size 7.5-8 boots). Although with rocker and maybe a stiffer pivot now binding that might alleviate that. Rode a 153 coda with 25.0 ww and didn't feel sluggish but it might be one of those, you don't know what you're missing deals since I've never ridden a small WW board lol.


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## timmytard

jdang307 said:


> It's my small feets and waist width that concern me with the larger sizes (size 7.5-8 boots). Although with rocker and maybe a stiffer pivot now binding that might alleviate that. Rode a 153 coda with 25.0 ww and didn't feel sluggish but it might be one of those, you don't know what you're missing deals since I've never ridden a small WW board lol.


Do you just refuse to try a chic's board or what?
That's what you need to try.

Seriously, it's not like kids are gonna bug you.

If you're that concerned about, slap some stickers on it.

I rode a lotus for a year, it was awesome, it was also the first NS deck that i owned. (with new R/C)
It's the reason I started ridin' all these new NS decks.


TT


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## F1EA

jdang307 said:


> It's my small feets and waist width that concern me with the larger sizes (size 7.5-8 boots). Although with rocker and maybe a stiffer pivot now binding that might alleviate that. Rode a 153 coda with 25.0 ww and didn't feel sluggish but it might be one of those, you don't know what you're missing deals since I've never ridden a small WW board lol.


Non wides NS's are pretty narrow, even the X is not thaaat wide. Plus if you want it for lowder, the exta surface a little lack of edge leverage is actually better. If for groomers... just compensate with more responsive bindings like you said and you should be fine. 

Now Select + West... surfy goodness. 

The Now pivot concept works VERY well with the NS profile. Feels more noticeable than on a camber board.... maybe because of the freedom to whip the board around with your ankles; with a camber board you kinda need a bit more leverage and need to drive the turns more with the rest of your body so the ankle freedom sort of has a bit less relevance.

If you were here around Whistler you could rent the Nows all day for like $25CAD


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## jdang307

timmytard said:


> Do you just refuse to try a chic's board or what?
> That's what you need to try.
> 
> Seriously, it's not like kids are gonna bug you.
> 
> If you're that concerned about, slap some stickers on it.
> 
> I rode a lotus for a year, it was awesome, it was also the first NS deck that i owned. (with new R/C)
> It's the reason I started ridin' all these new NS decks.
> 
> 
> TT


Kids on the slopes? Naw. But my buddies sitting aroudn drinking beers would never let me live down a pink board. I've thought about it, even posted about the Yes Hel Yes, which doesn't look girly.

The 150s and 152s NS's are just right width wise. I'm right on the edges with my bare feet. Barely. Proto, Cobra, Evo and SL have all been fine.


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## Martyc

Just pulled the trigger on the West, 162, I had an SL previously and couldn't get to grips with the rocker profile, the West I find much better, I like the flex although it is slightly softer than I was expecting. I have good about this board. Hitting up the French Alpes in 2 weeks!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## crispynz1

Martyc said:


> Just pulled the trigger on the West, 162, I had an SL previously and couldn't get to grips with the rocker profile, the West I find much better, I like the flex although it is slightly softer than I was expecting. I have good about this board. Hitting up the French Alpes in 2 weeks!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Hi, can you please tell me your weight, I am tossing up between a 159 & 162? Cheers


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## Martyc

I'm 100kg on the nose, as nature intended.


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## Surf n' Turf

Martyc said:


> I'm 100kg on the nose, as nature intended.


What about height and boot size?

I'm 6' 2" and 190+ lbs, with a size 11 boot. I'm in shape and very active. Solid intermediate advanced rider. I've ridden regularly in California (used to live there) and Colorado (fiance is from there). I'm from Asheville, but about to move to Colorado and get my first season pass. Traditionally ride 161 boards and have had K2s. Been really impressed with NS balance of damper (no chatter) and pop and want to grab one now to get an end of season deal.

An all mountain board that handles powder well and also provides some pop. I don't do park, but do hit challenges from natural terrain. Do you agree on the West?

If West, should I go with the X for the little width? And what sizing? Looking at the standard West I figure 162 (I don't want to go huge). With an X, thinking 160? If I can't find an X then maybe wait for new 2016 models later this year? I like to be able to maneuver the board and am concerned anything longer than a 162 is too much.


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## Deacon

Surf n' Turf said:


> What about height...?


irrelevant.


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## Surf n' Turf

Deacon said:


> irrelevant.


Good point, okay - other info. It sounds like there is no real need for the X. Just compared width to my current K2 and standard West seems the same, if not a cm or two wider. 

So 159 or 162? Opinions?


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## timmytard

I'm ridin' a West X 160 @ a buck sixty, with size 9.5 booties.

This is Carly, she weighs less than me & has smaller feet.
I let her try the West X 160, Never told her what it was

[ame]https://vimeo.com/158567883[/ame]


TT


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## Deacon

Surf n' Turf said:


> Good point, okay - other info. It sounds like there is no real need for the X. Just compared width to my current K2 and standard West seems the same, if not a cm or two wider.
> 
> So 159 or 162? Opinions?


You'd be fine on either, but where you're talking about riding, I'd think the 162 would be better. Just my opinion.


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## Balboa

My West is 157X, I'm 86kg size 12 boots. Powder no problems. Don't know about other sizes, but the 157X is ok for me.


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## buggravy

Deacon said:


> You'd be fine on either, but where you're talking about riding, I'd think the 162 would be better. Just my opinion.


I agree with this. I'm 160lbs, size 10 boot, on the 159. I wouldn't want any smaller for my purposes.


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## kaborkian

Wow, lots of good information.

So I currently ride a 161 cobra, was on a 163 premier f1 before. Everything about the cobra I like better...very quick turn initiation, great edge hold, decent enough in a carve, much way hugely better in trees...except that the sidecut radius could be a little longer and it could be more stable at speed (like hauling ass speed, 45mph plus).

I was looking hard at a Second board to add:

T.rice pro, billy goat, ripsaw, something stiffer and longer radius.

Then this West showed up. Looks like maybe it's the cobra but with all the things I didn't like fixed.

Am I right?


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## sabatoa

Okay so I'm not a gear junky...can someone tell me what a sidecut radius is and what it means for the board?


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## kaborkian

Sidecut radius is the diameter of a circle that the side of your board would fit against. The bigger the radius, the longer the turn your board makes for a given lean angle.

Practically speaking, a longer radius means long high speed sweeping turns and a shorter radius means quick short slower speed turns.

Also a longer sidecut usually allows for more stability at higher speeds.


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## sabatoa

Wow, great information. Thanks.


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## deagol

just one correction: Radius is one half the diameter.. but yeah, what he said ^^^

Or to put it another way: the longer the radius, the more subtle the sidecut (the straighter the board edge looks). and vice versa. 

For an example of a brand that has very large radius sidecut, check out these:

http://us.furbergsnowboards.com/technology/

I have ridden this brand and didn't really love their design philosophy, but as always, YMMV


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## kaborkian

Or do I need to just keep the cobra and add a ripssaw, because the cobra a west are pretty similar?


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## timmytard

kaborkian said:


> Or do I need to just keep the cobra and add a ripssaw, because the cobra a west are pretty similar?


Exactly. Get the Ripsaw.

Here's the west X 160
It's not steep enough though, to get enough speed to properly do the second one 

[ame]https://vimeo.com/161586574[/ame]


TT


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## timmytard

sabatoa said:


> Wow, great information. Thanks.


In layman's terms

little scr's are really nimble.

Really big scr's not so much, haha 

You can ride a small scr super fast in a straight line.

Haha but you can't make a big scr board turn sharp.

Haha it doesn't work like that.


TT


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## Phedder

^ Yep, love me a small sidecut radius! Actually every board I have is under 8m.


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## Deacon

Probably why my Rossi doesn't love midwest trees. 9.2m scr...


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## timmytard

Phedder said:


> ^ Yep, love me a small sidecut radius! Actually every board I have is under 8m.


1000 posts on the nose


TT


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## boardingschool

My daily is a 2010-2011 heritage X 163 which is the best single board I've ever owned. I also have a raptor x 165 that I ride when there is fresh; I really like how it handles in pow and light chop but if it's not a pow day I usually just ride the heritage. 

I am kinda bummed about the current lineup as there's nothing that comes close to the heritage - the west seems ok but a little worse, so luckily my heritage is still pretty solid. These boards are super burly (though my raptor has a spot where the base is pushed up, but it's not cut and there's no core shots so I just keep riding it.)

Right now I'm torn between a 165 or 169 chairman X or a Furberg freeride for my next board. Really wish NS would make a RCR board, but at least in my email communications with them they seemed pretty damn steadfast in their commitment to only making CRC boards. I definitely know other folks that used to ride them before the rocker camber move and would love to ride them once more but detest the rocker camber profile. I also need at least a 26.5 cm waist width so that limits me quite a bit. Even many "wide" boards are barely over 26cm waist. So aggravating...

For what it's worth, I really want to like libtech but holy crap they have always fallen apart in record time in my personal experience as well as that of my riding buddies. The only people that swear by them seem to be smaller dudes that don't ride as hard, but even they usually admit that they've had longevity and durability issues with their Mervin boards when I inquire on the lift or whatever.


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## linvillegorge

If you want something similar to the defunct Heritage, get the 25th Anniversary board coming out next season.


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## boardingschool

Yeah that's actually what I was talking to NS via email about, they told me the 25 will be similar to the Heritage but with the ripsaw profile. I actually saw one of these at the local shop a few months ago which is what got me emailing.

The 25 is something I definitely want to try out, but I think I need to go firmer/stiffer/more freeride with my next ride, hence Chairman VS Furberg. But I do really want to demo a 25, since the heritage is a pretty great freeride-lite board that can handle pretty much anything with ease.


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## boogman

And i thought the cobra was awesome....


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## SnowCat

What bindings would you recommend for West?


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## snowklinger

SnowCat said:


> What bindings would you recommend for West?


just about anything would work, maybe stay away from a park binder but otherwise...cartel, vita..anything in the midrange...stiff if thats your thing ...


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## SnowCat

Yea Cartel works well, but I have got some negative feedback about burton re-flex system (( what about Union T.Rice?


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## Deacon

SnowCat said:


> Yea Cartel works well, but I have got some negative feedback about burton re-flex system (( what about Union T.Rice?


You HAVE negative feedback, or you've READ negative feedback? Because I can find negative feedback on every pair of bindings on the market.


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## Martyc

Union Atlas for me


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Searchin4thapow

*Board Size and switching from an SL*

Great info here all. Quick questions. I now have an SL and an thinking about switching to the West. Is the West a game changer? I am here in the icy east coast and current ride a 153. I was thinking about the 156 but should I go bigger? I freeride but like to hit the trees when all of the idiots want to come out and play. Never Summer wont give me a size recommendation but I am 165lbs. Also, will Forum Shaka bindings be a good fit? Thanks for all the great info.


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## sabatoa

Phedder said:


> ^ Yep, love me a small sidecut radius! Actually every board I have is under 8m.


I don't know if you can answer this, but my board is listed like this for sidecut radius: Vario 788. Is that 7.88 meters or is it some proprietary nonsense that I have to call them on? 2012 NS Legacy.


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## Phedder

sabatoa said:


> I don't know if you can answer this, but my board is listed like this for sidecut radius: Vario 788. Is that 7.88 meters or is it some proprietary nonsense that I have to call them on? 2012 NS Legacy.


I believe that's 7.88m after averaging out the different radii they use for their Variogrip. So a lower number for the tip and tail, higher for the along the bindings, and then not sure how they'd include the flat section into that calculation.


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