# women's pipe event + or -



## mjd (Mar 13, 2009)

am i being an idiot or was the women's half pipe comp totally lame last night with the exception of torah bright's second run?


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## pencap75 (Dec 10, 2008)

They should have the women go first instead of the men. When people see how much less intense the women are compared to the men, its a let down. 

The worst female pipe competitor is still way better than me... I don't have the balls to leave the lip yet, however, they just don;t compare to the men.


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## MunkySpunk (Jan 7, 2009)

They perform at their capacity in their own field. Nothing wrong or less impressive about it. 

What wasn't impressive about it was the sheer amount of wipeouts. A competition should be mainly decided by talent, not whomever is lucky enough to just barely keep it together for the runs that count.


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## The_Guchi (Nov 1, 2009)

your 100% right at that level they should have their runs down and have an occasional fall not almost every run. i can watch people huck carcass any time they should dial it back a notch and have a smooth or kick it up a level and get some steroids! (thats a joke people)


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## Leo (Nov 24, 2009)

Women just can't go as big as men. This is not a sexist remark, but reality. Their center of gravity is lower and men have stronger cores. Also, men like Shaun White look skinny and chicken legged, but I guarantee his legs are stronger than any of those female athletes. Unless they are one of those massive body building females.

In the pipe, you need to be strong to perform those pumps to catapult you into the air. This takes a lot of strength.

On that note, I was really rooting for Gretchen. She is a class act. All smiles before and after whether she wins or loses. I also like how she sits before the run and hypes herself up with a huge smile and claps.


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## mjd (Mar 13, 2009)

MunkySpunk said:


> They perform at their capacity in their own field. Nothing wrong or less impressive about it.
> 
> What wasn't impressive about it was the sheer amount of wipeouts. A competition should be mainly decided by talent, not whomever is lucky enough to just barely keep it together for the runs that count.


yea, i just thought their capacity was a little greater than that. i was totally digging that switch 720 bright pulled off but the rest of it seemed liked a choke fest. maybe my expectations were too high.


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## tomtom88 (Nov 13, 2008)

Even a few of Torah's landing looked really sketch, none of the female riders were able to really stomp their landings, the only one who was actually stomping them with out any squirrellyness afterwards was Gretchen. Sadly she fell on both runs when she tried to pull out the stops.


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## The_Guchi (Nov 1, 2009)

Gretchen is still my favorite female rider....


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## ComicStix (Oct 9, 2009)

I was a little disappointed with the finals. I was expecting, and hoping, for an American sweep but sadly that did not happen. I seriously think EVERYONE fell at least once in one of their runs. Either they didn't practice or nerves. I really did enjoy Kelly Clark karaoke though! :laugh: But Torah Bright won and that's awesome I think she deserved it. I wanted her to do a double cork like she was rumored to have landed before but she didn't even have to pull it out!  Hannah Teter is still my favorite snowboarder! At least she got silver!


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## CaptT (Sep 23, 2009)

I scheduled my whole night around this....and then fell asleep waiting for it to start....:thumbsdown::thumbsdown:....god I am getting old....it was only 7:30.....


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## jlm1976 (Feb 26, 2009)

I really enjoyed it and to a certain extent liked it better than the men's. The men's final might as well have been the x-games final. We pretty much saw everyone's standard run...
The woman seemed to throw their stock runs out the window and just go for it. They didn't play it safe and I think they should all be commended for that. 
I do think Elena should have scored higher even though she was boosting much lower than the rest of the women. 
Tora definitely deserved gold with her run!


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## Leo (Nov 24, 2009)

I'm still in shock that the Chinese have riders with only 7 years exp hitting the Olympic Halfpipe. Nuts. Wanna talk about Shaun White being too competitive? There you go.


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## Guest (Feb 19, 2010)

Captain T---U didnt miss much trust me. And your a mom and work full time...thats like 2 full time jobs. Your allowed to fall asleep at 7 30 lol.

Anyway. What really pissed me off was the fact that, not to sound sexist, but how in the hell did those girls get scored compared to the guys? Torah got a 45 which was close to Shaun Whites score, when her run couldn't even compare to Whites? I dont like that...its like they have ease up on the scoring for the chicks. Nah f&*k that...chicks should get scored the exact same as the dudes. If the best run for the chicks was a 35...then let the gold go to the chick who scored 35. But for Torah to get a score close to Shaun Whites was complete shit. Everyone should get scored the exact same, boy or girl. They ride the same pipe. Have the same capability of throwin 12's just like dudes, but they dont go as hard. That center of gravity crap. Nahh. The strength thing, yes I agree. But I also feel like the chicks just dont push it as hard as the dudes. They could throw anything the guys can throw!! But they dont. They are smaller and more flexible then guys, which should make up for the fact that they arent as strong as dudes.

I like Gretchen tho...shes my fav. I think its cool how she sits at the top of the half pipe and gets herself hyped up. I think she goes the hardest too. She throws that inverted crippler and 900's like its her business. I was so bummed when she fell. Shes a cool chick to. Did you ever see Hannah Teter? Cocky little girl. Talking about no one is better then her or has stronger legs then her on the Letterman show. 

Look---- YouTube - Hannah Teter @ Letterman 2006

Now check out Gretchen...shes WAY hotter and way cooler then Hannah, IMO

YouTube - Gretchen Bleiler


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## laz167 (Nov 27, 2007)

Leo said:


> I'm still in shock that the Chinese have riders with only 7 years exp hitting the Olympic Halfpipe. Nuts. Wanna talk about Shaun White being too competitive? There you go.


 This was the most amazing thing of the night 7 years experience and if they could have held they're runs it would have been a diffrent story on the podium. As for kelly Clark I dont believe she deserved a bronze, she was sketchy on the last run and got a 42?


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## tomtom88 (Nov 13, 2008)

NyInfamous'Girl said:


> Captain T---U didnt miss much trust me. And your a mom and work full time...thats like 2 full time jobs. Your allowed to fall asleep at 7 30 lol.
> 
> Anyway. What really pissed me off was the fact that, not to sound sexist, but how in the hell did those girls get scored compared to the guys? Torah got a 45 which was close to Shaun Whites score, when her run couldn't even compare to Whites? I dont like that...its like they have ease up on the scoring for the chicks. Nah f&*k that...chicks should get scored the exact same as the dudes. If the best run for the chicks was a 35...then let the gold go to the chick who scored 35. But for Torah to get a score close to Shaun Whites was complete shit. Everyone should get scored the exact same, boy or girl. They ride the same pipe. Have the same capability of throwin 12's just like dudes, but they dont go as hard. That center of gravity crap. Nahh. The strength thing, yes I agree. But I also feel like the chicks just dont push it as hard as the dudes. They could throw anything the guys can throw!! But they dont. They are smaller and more flexible then guys, which should make up for the fact that they arent as strong as dudes.
> 
> ...


The reason they get about the same scores as the men's halfpipe scores is because it is a separate event.

They are being scored against eachother, not against the men. 
That's the biggest thing you gotta remember when it comes to scoring the events.

Imagine the outcry there would be if they were scored lower in their own event because they weren't throwing down anything near as big or risky as the men were in theirs.

Keep them separate and you will be a-ok.:thumbsup:


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## mjd (Mar 13, 2009)

NyInfamous'Girl said:


> Captain T---U didnt miss much trust me. And your a mom and work full time...thats like 2 full time jobs. Your allowed to fall asleep at 7 30 lol.
> 
> Anyway. What really pissed me off was the fact that, not to sound sexist, but how in the hell did those girls get scored compared to the guys? Torah got a 45 which was close to Shaun Whites score, when her run couldn't even compare to Whites? I dont like that...its like they have ease up on the scoring for the chicks. Nah f&*k that...chicks should get scored the exact same as the dudes. If the best run for the chicks was a 35...then let the gold go to the chick who scored 35. But for Torah to get a score close to Shaun Whites was complete shit. Everyone should get scored the exact same, boy or girl. They ride the same pipe. Have the same capability of throwin 12's just like dudes, but they dont go as hard. That center of gravity crap. Nahh. The strength thing, yes I agree. But I also feel like the chicks just dont push it as hard as the dudes. They could throw anything the guys can throw!! But they dont. They are smaller and more flexible then guys, which should make up for the fact that they arent as strong as dudes.
> 
> ...


i think she (bleiler)is a little older. def more mature and smoking .

if they scored the girls on the same level as the guys do you think that would have some kind of psych effect and they'd push it more instead of going thru half-ass performances like last night?


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## G2309 (Oct 22, 2009)

NyInfamous'Girl said:


> Captain T---U didnt miss much trust me. And your a mom and work full time...thats like 2 full time jobs. Your allowed to fall asleep at 7 30 lol.
> 
> Anyway. What really pissed me off was the fact that, not to sound sexist, but how in the hell did those girls get scored compared to the guys? Torah got a 45 which was close to Shaun Whites score, when her run couldn't even compare to Whites? I dont like that...its like they have ease up on the scoring for the chicks. Nah f&*k that...chicks should get scored the exact same as the dudes. If the best run for the chicks was a 35...then let the gold go to the chick who scored 35. But for Torah to get a score close to Shaun Whites was complete shit. Everyone should get scored the exact same, boy or girl. They ride the same pipe. Have the same capability of throwin 12's just like dudes, but they dont go as hard. That center of gravity crap. Nahh. The strength thing, yes I agree. But I also feel like the chicks just dont push it as hard as the dudes. They could throw anything the guys can throw!! But they dont. They are smaller and more flexible then guys, which should make up for the fact that they arent as strong as dudes.
> 
> ...




They're scored differently to the guys be a bit unfair otherwise if the best they can achieve is 35 out of 50.
I really enjoyed it at least there was competition. We pretty much new already that Shaun White would win. There were also a lot of wipeouts on the mens event. I think its better they pushed themselves and crashed rather than have a safe run. They were in the final no point playing it safe.


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## SchultzLS2 (Jan 10, 2010)

Yeah the women were really lame. Its like woah a fall...woah a fall...woah a fall. Like someone said, if the girl had a decent run and actually made it down the pipe then she had a chance to medal.

*Who saw Louie Vito's runs? 39's on both? That was bullshit. The judges just didn't want an American sweep on the podium.*


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## Leo (Nov 24, 2009)

Why does everyone keep bringing Vito up? Yes, he ripped it. Did he do it clean? Not even fucking close. He was hands down blindingly sloppy. Great Kid and very, very talented. But honestly, go watch replays and slow mos of him. Compare him to riders like Piitu and Lago. Vito had a lot of movement and sketchy landings. The judges this year were being extremely picky about clean runs. That is the whole point of the straight airs too. It's to show that you are in complete control when in the air. Ryo and Vito both struggled on their straight air. And both had sloppy landings when they did land tricks.


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## mjd (Mar 13, 2009)

SchultzLS2 said:


> Yeah the women were really lame. Its like woah a fall...woah a fall...woah a fall. Like someone said, if the girl had a decent run and actually made it down the pipe then she had a chance to medal.
> 
> *Who saw Louie Vito's runs? 39's on both? That was bullshit. The judges just didn't want an American sweep on the podium.*


yea i thought he got robbed on the second one.


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## SchultzLS2 (Jan 10, 2010)

Leo said:


> Why does everyone keep bringing Vito up? Yes, he ripped it. Did he do it clean? Not even fucking close. He was hands down blindingly sloppy. Great Kid and very, very talented. But honestly, go watch replays and slow mos of him. Compare him to riders like Piitu and Lago. Vito had a lot of movement and sketchy landings. The judges this year were being extremely picky about clean runs. That is the whole point of the straight airs too. It's to show that you are in complete control when in the air. Ryo and Vito both struggled on their straight air. And both had sloppy landings when they did land tricks.


I did see that both his straight air's were a bit sloppy but I thought that he stomped most of his landings :dunno:

If you think back to previous competitions and even the X Games 3 weeks ago Louie always has had trouble with his straight airs.


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## Leo (Nov 24, 2009)

SchultzLS2 said:


> I did see that both his straight air's were a bit sloppy but I thought that he stomped most of his landings :dunno:
> 
> If you think back to previous competitions and even the X Games 3 weeks ago Louie always has had trouble with his straight airs.


Yea, he needs to get his stability down. The straight air showcases the riders control. There's something to be said when a rider has trouble with straight airs constantly.

He's still pretty young though. He's definitely going to tear the scene up as he grows up competition wise.

He did stomp his landings, but they were sketchy and harsh. That double cork on the first hit was amazing though. That takes some major, major iron ones.


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## Enigmatic (Feb 6, 2009)

Agreed Vito's straight air was on the sketch but I think if it was Shaun, they would have scored him higher...

Anyway, I think the girl's competitions will be a lot funner to watch when girls/guys really start riding together more and motivating each other to go big. Honestly, and this might sound crazy, but I think if the events are separated then there shouldn't even be a girl's event (this goes for all sports) because whats the point of watching the same sport done at a lower level, its just boring. 

I think girls can go just as big as guys but not if their psychologically held back by some idea that they are at a biological disadvantage. I know there's probably some research to prove that they are, but I've seen some kids at Bear (boys and girls riding together) where some of these girls at like age 8 rip way harder than the guys and are way more down to throw risky tricks. BUT once they start competiting they get separated by gender and the girls that used to rip start to lose steam when compared to their male counterparts.

I think it would be tight to see girls and guys compete all together, yeah at first the girls would get dominated, but after awhile I think we would start to see them equalize and integrate so that this gender line starts to disappear. Well thats the hypothesis anyway, kind of a radical position that I'm not totally sure is right but hey, somethin to think about



On the flipside, the most stoked I was watching the olympics was from that Japanese guy, I think it was Kazuhiro Kokubo...he was the only one to make me say "dammmn that was tight" on some of his tricks...whereas Shaun's run was respectable, I wasn't overly hyped on it, more of like a golf clap appreciation


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## Guest (Feb 19, 2010)

Enigmatic- I totally 120% agree with you. The girls know that no other girls are gonna throw 12's, so why should they push any harder then a 9? But if you put them in there with Shaun White and Lago (cant stand him) then u would see the girls step their game up for sure. I think that since the girls and guys are using the same pipe, in the same type of competition, why not go together? Like i said, the girls have the capability, but no motivation to do it! Why would they risk a 12 when a 9 is acceptable?

MJD - Yes I completely feel like they would push themselves harder!!! Perfect little example (I cannot compare to these chicks, but Im just using this for an example lol). I ride with a bunch of guys who rip down the mountain and have 15+ years experience. All guys in fact, no girls. I also see everyone on the mountain as competition, which kept me going hard everyday. I pushed myself as hard as I could every day to keep up with them. It motivated me to do better and better. So in that case, yes they def would have pushed themselves harder if they were going with the guys. Its a competition and if they needed to compete with the guys, they would have went so much harder. When you are competing, you gotta go that much harder then the next best person. 

Tomtom---If they wanna be kept separate, then they need to stop bitching about wanting to be treated equal. They talk and talk about the 'equalness' for girls, but then if you scored them the same as the guys the girls would be bitching about it!!! WTF MAN. Fml....

I was so dissappointed with the girls...


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## baldylox (Dec 27, 2007)

That's a nice thought but it's just not realistic. Women _are_ at a biological disadvantage. They can't support the same kind of muscle as men. You see it in _every_ sport with the exception of maybe ultramarathons. That said, every one of those girls rides better than I'd ever hope to. You're either saying they don't have the mental toughness to push themselves as hard as the men or it's physical. Your choice.

Flame suit on.

I do think the performance last night was not anywhere near what it should or could be. I am thinking it had something to do with the size of the pipe since the only one who dropped in anywhere near the lip was Torah Bright.


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## Leo (Nov 24, 2009)

Just the lower center of gravity alone is enough to put the girls at a disadvantage. Think about it, their spins have to be much more forced. If you watch carefully how all of the girls spin, they are visibly forcing it. It is especially noticeable in Hannah Teter.


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## tomtom88 (Nov 13, 2008)

Another reason you don't see them throw 12's is because they almost never get the air necessary to throw one, except for on their first hit. Now there are a few exceptions to that example of course but, what I said is pretty typical. And getting big air comes down to muscle, you need the strength to really pump out of the pipe and give yourself the pop. I just didn't see that in hardly any of the girls' runs last night, the average air for them was what, 3'? 4' maybe?


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## Leo (Nov 24, 2009)

Gretchen got pretty high. Man, I wish she landed her hits. That was unfortunate when she clipped that lip because her run was going really well up until then. I like how she drops in from the top of the lip like Shaun too.

I hate to use this word, but she is very cute when she sits before the run and pumps herself up. Made me cheer for her even more lol


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## CaptT (Sep 23, 2009)

Wow, this thread blew up in my absence.....

A- The only way females should be competing against males..... is when using only brain power.....and really not even that, because it's just too easy for us! Guys will always dominate sporting events against women...the biology isn't there for us....unless you are the rare exception he/she.....(The Williams Sisters...) they are just plain scary...

B- It would be fun to watch them compete together but scored separately...like every other...that may boost the girls a bit to push harder. I too was disappointed in the girls at Dew Tour.....they had the opportunity and skills necessary to go bigger but only came out a few feet.....some tricks were at the lip instead of above.....I was thinking for hell sakes, you girls got mad skills and your ALL holding back.....what we need is a female SW.....kick their asses into gear. 

C- Maybe we should stop talkin so much, and show em how it's done.....lol


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## mjd (Mar 13, 2009)

i was pretty impressed with the women ski racers. maybe that's because i never learned to ski and i have no idea what i'm watching. but the crashes were fucking retarded and they just got up and took it. awesome.


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## NYSnow (Nov 28, 2009)

That was the weakest pipe competition I have ever seen. There were just too many sketch landings and falls. Torah Bright's second run was very impressive but beyond that it was boring. I saw a women's halfpipe FIS event a few years ago in Park City and was very impressed and there were not nearly as many falls. I am horrible in the halfpipe and like to see men and women riding at a high level. I would rather have seen ice curling last night.


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## CaptT (Sep 23, 2009)

mjd said:


> i was pretty impressed with the women ski racers. maybe that's because i never learned to ski and i have no idea what i'm watching. but the crashes were fucking retarded and they just got up and took it. awesome.



I totally agree......


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## maf05r6 (Mar 3, 2008)

I DVRed it but ended up watching. Like everyone else said at this level it shouln't come down to who doesn't F up their run. I was a bit disappointed.


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## Sam I Am (Sep 9, 2009)

Enigmatic said:


> Agreed Vito's straight air was on the sketch but I think if it was Shaun, they would have scored him higher...
> 
> Anyway, I think the girl's competitions will be a lot funner to watch when girls/guys really start riding together more and motivating each other to go big. Honestly, and this might sound crazy, but I think if the events are separated then there shouldn't even be a girl's event (this goes for all sports) because whats the point of watching the same sport done at a lower level, its just boring.
> 
> ...


...........agreed.:thumbsup:


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## lilfoot1598 (Mar 7, 2009)

First off, I love love love Gretchen Bleiler. She's talented and has a great attitude. But I was also disappointed by the women's runs last night. I didn't feel like I was watching world class athletes.



Enigmatic said:


> Anyway, I think the girl's competitions will be a lot funner to watch when girls/guys really start riding together more and motivating each other to go big. Honestly, and this might sound crazy, but I think if the events are separated then there shouldn't even be a girl's event (this goes for all sports) because whats the point of watching the same sport done at a lower level, its just boring.
> 
> 
> I think it would be tight to see girls and guys compete all together, yeah at first the girls would get dominated, but after awhile I think we would start to see them equalize and integrate so that this gender line starts to disappear. Well thats the hypothesis anyway, kind of a radical position that I'm not totally sure is right but hey, somethin to think about


News flash: competitions don't exist for your entertainment. Who gives a shit of the girls aren't as fun to watch? They aren't there to entertain you, they are there to compete. If you don't like it, then don't watch it.

In the end, there is a thin line between gender and sex. "Sex" refers to the biological nature of a person - most people are born as either male or female and thus have certain biological characteristics. Where sex is concerned, female are different than males - we're typically shorter, for example - and we have to accept those biological limitations.

Gender refers to a person's cultural role based on his or her sex. So, females in western cultures are TAUGHT to play with dolls, be nurturing, etc. We often assume that these are natural roles for girls, but they are not because they are not tied to biology. I do think a thirst for competition and a willingness to enter into dangerous situations is more closely tied to gender than to sex. Men are brought up to be more competitive and take on more risks, which in turn drives them to be better athletes. However, this fact cannot entirely account for the gap in physical performance between men and women. As much as I'd love to be all PC and badass and hardcore and push women to just get over it and kill it, I have to step back and be somewhat realistic. If you're talking about gender, you're missing half of the picture.

Oh, and Gretchen Bleiler IS badass. Kelly Clark IS badass. These ladies are in the Olympics because they push their bodies to the very limits every single day. Don't think for a minute that they can't hang with the men because they just aren't strong enough in spirit. Don't you think at least a few women would be able to compete with the boys in halfpipe if their bodies actually allowed them to do so???


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## Enigmatic (Feb 6, 2009)

I don't know, I just think it would be cool to see girls and guys ride together in the same competitions... especially starting at a young age. I think its more of a cultural thing than a physical/biological setback, but thats just my gut feeling.

Come to think of it, the referrence I made earlier about that 8 year old girl at Bear is actually not a great point because at that age females are supposed to be more physically developed than males, and then the guys catch up and allegdly exceed later on. So in that sense, that point doesn't really help my argument. But even then, I think a lot of girls hold themselves back mentally. 

Haha but yeah I'm not trying to hate on girls or anything, I just think they could take their snowboarding to the same level as guys if they set that as their goal...


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## Guest (Feb 20, 2010)

Lilfoot- I believe that enigmatic was saying that girls and guys should have the opportunity to compete together. I'm a little confused about your post. Are you saying that girls and guys competing against one another is a bad idea? 

Also, you were like men are brought up to be more competitive then girls. I must disagree with u here. While it is true for the majority of men to women, I can't say it's true for everyone. Women are just as competitive as guys, maybe some even more then men. There is no physiologically reason as to why the girls shouldn't compete against the guys. Even though they may not be as strong doesn't mean they can't do 12's like
the guys. Spinning 12's takes skill more then strength. If you have the strength to spin a 9 u can spin a 12 for example. I don't feel like they push their bodies to the limit. If they did they would be doing what the guys do. I do feel like they just don't go as hard, but then again why should they when a 540 Is gold medal material?

Of course this is all just IMO. But I'm a girl that comes from a very competitive lifestyle. I play sports everyday for
school and it's all co ed. I play b ball, softball, v ball, handball
and so on damn near everyday. It always annoys me when the guys ease up on me cause I'm
a girl u know.


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## ComicStix (Oct 9, 2009)

> News flash: competitions don't exist for your entertainment. Who gives a shit of the girls aren't as fun to watch? They aren't there to entertain you, they are there to compete. If you don't like it, then don't watch it.
> 
> In the end, there is a thin line between gender and sex. "Sex" refers to the biological nature of a person - most people are born as either male or female and thus have certain biological characteristics. Where sex is concerned, female are different than males - we're typically shorter, for example - and we have to accept those biological limitations.
> 
> ...


Well this sex stuff is correct and incorrect at the same time. Is every women short? No, I am definitely not short and if all women were short we wouldn't have super models. But yes I do agree that we obviously aren't as strong as males. My male friends can push me around like a toothpick :laugh: Anyways, women are often very competitive and are encouraged to be so. I don't think that we live in the 50's anymore where women are taught to stay in the kitchen. Women are and will always be competitive with each other. You see examples everywhere. So why can't women push themselves as mush as men????


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## HUNT24/7 (Feb 8, 2010)

I'm not sure girls competing against guys is a great idea, mentally they can compete but not physically.

A couple years ago the best female golfer that ever played the game was at the peak of her career & played in a PGA Tour event (a shit tournament at that) & she diden't even make the cut, if that was a major tournament with all the big boys like Tiger & a tough golf course, I can't imagine how bad it would have been.

I'm not sure if getting their asses handed to them week in & week out would be a good thing IMO..........................but it would make for some good tv watching.


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## ComicStix (Oct 9, 2009)

HUNT24/7 said:


> I'm not sure girls competing against guys is a great idea, mentally they can compete but not physically.
> 
> A couple years ago the best female golfer that ever played the game was at the peak of her career & played in a PGA Tour event (a shit tournament at that) & she diden't even make the cut, if that was a major tournament with all the big boys like Tiger & a tough golf course, I can't imagine how bad it would have been.
> 
> I'm not sure if getting their asses handed to them week in & week out would be a good thing IMO..........................but it would make for some good tv watching.


Michelle Wie?


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## HUNT24/7 (Feb 8, 2010)

ComicStix said:


> Michelle Wie?


Annika Sorenstam, Michelle Wie has also tried with no sucess.


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## lilfoot1598 (Mar 7, 2009)

ComicStix said:


> Well this sex stuff is correct and incorrect at the same time. Is every women short? No, I am definitely not short and if all women were short we wouldn't have super models. But yes I do agree that we obviously aren't as strong as males. My male friends can push me around like a toothpick :laugh: Anyways, women are often very competitive and are encouraged to be so. I don't think that we live in the 50's anymore where women are taught to stay in the kitchen. Women are and will always be competitive with each other. You see examples everywhere. So why can't women push themselves as mush as men????


The definitions I provided concerning sex and gender are from an anthropological perspective and are supported by experts in the field. At no point did I say that all men are taller than all women; that's an entirely untenable position. I was stating a simple concept: the average woman is shorter than the average man.

I agree that our culture has moved forward and women are no longer as constricted as they were in the 1950's. However, men and women are still taught to behave differently in our culture (boys playing with dolls?). In particular, men are more commonly taught to take physical risks and to compete physically with other men and to protect and hide their emotions. This does not mean that women aren't sometimes competitive; I was simply describing patterns within our culture as a whole. 

Within a large culture like the United Sates, there are many subcultures, and subcultures within subcultures. This means that there will always be exceptions to any generalities we make.


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## lilfoot1598 (Mar 7, 2009)

NyInfamous'Girl said:


> Lilfoot- I believe that enigmatic was saying that girls and guys should have the opportunity to compete together. I'm a little confused about your post. Are you saying that girls and guys competing against one another is a bad idea?
> 
> Also, you were like men are brought up to be more competitive then girls. I must disagree with u here. While it is true for the majority of men to women, I can't say it's true for everyone. Women are just as competitive as guys, maybe some even more then men. There is no physiologically reason as to why the girls shouldn't compete against the guys. Even though they may not be as strong doesn't mean they can't do 12's like
> the guys. Spinning 12's takes skill more then strength. If you have the strength to spin a 9 u can spin a 12 for example. I don't feel like they push their bodies to the limit. If they did they would be doing what the guys do. I do feel like they just don't go as hard, but then again why should they when a 540 Is gold medal material?
> ...


I was annoyed by his comment that women-only events shouldn't occur because the competition appears to be sub-par in comparison to the men and thus less entertaining.

I am saying that men and women competing together in sports like snowboarding is a bad idea because women would not win in any competition dictated by stength, speed, or size. I do agree that women training alongside men is a good idea and would likely push women to a higher level in the same way that, for example, an intermediate rider would progress more quickly when riding with a pack of more advanced riders than he or she would advance when riding alone. 

Women's talents are not less, but different. Take a look at gymnastics, where men and women complete on different apparatuses because they have different physical abilities and limitations. I wonder if a male would be able to compete on a balance beam?

Co-ed sports are different because you are talking about teams comprised of both men and women, not teams of women playing against teams of men. Even so, I'm not arguing that an all-woman team could never beat an all-man team. I am arguing that a male teams facing a female team of equal training and talent would win that match-up IF it were based on speed, strength, etc.

I don't think you give our lady shredders enough credit. Apparently you are more "core" than the Olympians who, as you claim, only push themselves far enough to win that gold medal. I doubt it.


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## ETM (Aug 11, 2009)

What a stupid debate this is. These are the best girls in the world end of story. I wish I was half as good as they are.
Go Torah, Go Aussies!


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## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

You got to consider the standard or what is being judged to be at the top of the sport. If the sport/competition was based on a finess or elegance standard instead of a "balls out"; I would wager that alot of guys would suck hind teat compared to women athletes.


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## MunkySpunk (Jan 7, 2009)

These women are just as motivated as the men. They are olympians and pro-athletes. Motivation is not an issue. They didn't get where they are by not pushing themselves and their bodies as hard as they could. It was a long, hard slog over a LOT of competitors to get a spot on the team. If you maintain it's some sort of lack of motivation, incompetence, or fear keeping them from stomping the same stuff as the guys, then get up in the pipe and show the olympians how it's REALLY done if you're so fucking great. Otherwise quit talking about how great you are and how lazy they are, because your ass sure as hell isn't in the Olympics.

And anyone who thinks that women aren't at least as competitive as men should get a job somewhere that women are in the majority. If there's one thing I've learned about women it's that they have this innate need to utterly destroy their rivals on every level through the most devious and petty means possible. It's not enough to just let a disagreement be - they have to start rumors, spread gossip, backstab, get power trippy, try to get the other person in trouble, and all that sort of crap one would normally expect girls to stop doing after junior high.

Anatomical differences make it more difficult for women to pull off the same tricks as men. They have wider hips, therefore their legs are also placed wider, therefore a MUCH greater moment of inertia to overcome. Even if their leg muscles were as strong as the guys they would still have to work harder to get the same tricks off. Think of it as putting a 10 pound weight on the tip and tail of the guy's board..... you're just not going to initiate a rotation with the necessary speed. Likewise, it makes it all the more difficult to stop their rotation once they hit the ground. For a woman to pull off a 900 takes just as much relative leg muscle, skill, and training as it does for a guy to pull off a 1080. It's the same thing when skaters enter a spin - pull the arms in, you spin faster, let them out, and you go slower. Anyone who has taken anything even remotely resembling college physics I, back me up here. Quit pretending physics doesn't exist because you can't understand it. 

To score them relative to the performance of the guys is a bad idea, as it will just point out, over and over, that they can't pull off the same tricks (through no fault of their own). If you're going to make a woman's class and give them their own medals, scoring them on the same scale as the guys serves absolutely no purpose whatsoever. It's just a cheap sexist jab, nothing else.

Torah deserved her score - for a woman, she pulled off a bag of tricks comparable to SW. She had to train just as hard, had to spend just as many hours in the gym, had to sacrifice just as much, and had to call on just as much of herself as SW had to call on himself.

I still maintain it was a good show except for the crashes. When the girls were on their game, they were on their game. Problem is that very few of them were this year. :dunno:

EDIT: For what it's worth, I found the womens' downhill alpine to be 10X as nail-biting as the snoozer the guys' put on. And not just because Vonn could crack a walnut with those grade-A thighs of hers.


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## Enigmatic (Feb 6, 2009)

Yeah Yeah you guys all have good points, but I'm still not fully persuaded, I still think girls can hang with guys in a sport like snowboarding and I think the next step for female athletics in general is to compete with guys so its not so much about being the best male/female athlete, but about being the best athlete, period. 

But anyway...20 bucks says men and women will be competeting against each other at an equal level in snowboarding in less than 60 years. And when they do, I'm going to come back to these forums and say "Ha! I knew it!"


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## ETM (Aug 11, 2009)

haha the internet will be soo ghey in 60 years the kids wont be on here LOL


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## Sam I Am (Sep 9, 2009)

Enigmatic said:


> Yeah Yeah you guys all have good points, but I'm still not fully persuaded, I still think girls can hang with guys in a sport like snowboarding and I think the next step for female athletics in general is to compete with guys so its not so much about being the best male/female athlete, but about being the best athlete, period.
> 
> But anyway...20 bucks says men and women will be competeting against each other at an equal level in snowboarding in less than 60 years. And when they do, I'm going to come back to these forums and say "Ha! I knew it!"


Enigmatic. You can't imagine how badly I want to slap you five right now. I whole heartedly agree.
:thumbsup:


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## WhistlerBound (Aug 24, 2008)

MunkySpunk said:


> EDIT: For what it's worth, I found the womens' downhill alpine to be 10X as nail-biting as the snoozer the guys' put on. And not just because Vonn could crack a walnut with those grade-A thighs of hers.


QFT, on both counts. 

The women's downhill was a great example of a bunch of super-competitive athletes pushing the envelope. Who cares what their times would be in comparison to the men's, their drive, skill and fitness was at the same level.


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## Guest (Feb 21, 2010)

Enigmatic----I was on here ready to come up with some whole rebuttal about why I feel girls should compete with guys and blah blah. Forget that I'm not wasting my time. From a girl who rides with all guys, I'll slap u a high five, agree with u and call it a day lol


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## CaptT (Sep 23, 2009)

I agree with the "women are just as, if not more competitive then men".....I am super competitive....even with myself.... I look at what other women are doing and think..."I can do that"....then I fuck myself up! lol....that is exactly what happened when I tore my knee to shit.....I watched the guys do it and said to myself...."I got this".....then....reality hit..... hard! But I did pull off what I was going for......just without the happy ending....

Also....this has happened with the Olympics.....I watched the Vonn race and thought to myself....she did it with a bad shin.....I can do it with a bad knee......then I hit the park.....probably not the best idea.....saw the hit....went for it without speed checking.....overshot the landing....landed in the flat....my knee still hurts.....lol.... but I did pull it off.....


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## Leo (Nov 24, 2009)

Let me put it this way in favor of the biological differences, out of all of the hundreds of professional sports out there, name once you saw a woman dominate a man of equal skill? I say equal skill as pertaining to Munky's point. A woman throwing a 900 is like a dude throwing down a 1080.

I can't think of any.

I am also talking about really physical sports. Not shit like bowling and darts.

By the way, the line in Golf is thin. Golf is mostly momentum, not physical strength. That is one sport where I can comfortably say that there will probably be a woman who can do as good as the men. When Tiger retires that is.


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## HUNT24/7 (Feb 8, 2010)

Leo said:


> By the way, the line in Golf is thin. Golf is mostly momentum, not physical strength. That is one sport where I can comfortably say that there will probably be a woman who can do as good as the men. When Tiger retires that is.



I disagree, Anika Sorenstam is the female Tiger Woods, she has broken every female golf record in the books. Golf is more of a physical advantage than you might think, the longest male golfer on tour drives the ball around 50 yards longer than the longest female, that is a major physical disadvantage, you take a PGA course is average 600 yards longer than the LPGA course

There will never be a female golfer that will be able to compete against the best male golfers............. ever, just like in snowboarding


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## jegnorge (Feb 15, 2010)

CaptT said:


> I agree with the "women are just as, if not more competitive then men".....I am super competitive....even with myself.... I look at what other women are doing and think..."I can do that"....then I fuck myself up! lol....that is exactly what happened when I tore my knee to shit.....I watched the guys do it and said to myself...."I got this".....then....reality hit..... hard! But I did pull off what I was going for......just without the happy ending....
> 
> Also....this has happened with the Olympics.....I watched the Vonn race and thought to myself....she did it with a bad shin.....I can do it with a bad knee......then I hit the park.....probably not the best idea.....saw the hit....went for it without speed checking.....overshot the landing....landed in the flat....my knee still hurts.....lol.... but I did pull it off.....


that's a really good way to mess yourself up.


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## CaptT (Sep 23, 2009)

jegnorge said:


> that's a really good way to mess yourself up.



Yeah....I get that....doesn't mean I am capable of stopping myself in the heat of the moment though.....zero self control....


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## Leo (Nov 24, 2009)

HUNT24/7 said:


> I disagree, Anika Sorenstam is the female Tiger Woods, she has broken every female golf record in the books. Golf is more of a physical advantage than you might think, the longest male golfer on tour drives the ball around 50 yards longer than the longest female, that is a major physical disadvantage, you take a PGA course is average 600 yards longer than the LPGA course
> 
> There will never be a female golfer that will be able to compete against the best male golfers............. ever, just like in snowboarding


Actually, the closest comparison to Tiger Woods is Michelle Wie. Her drive is around 280-300 yards.

At any rate, I digress then. Not even in golf can the women compete


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## Deviant (Dec 22, 2009)

Leo said:


> Let me put it this way in favor of the biological differences, out of all of the hundreds of professional sports out there, name once you saw a woman dominate a man of equal skill? I say equal skill as pertaining to Munky's point. A woman throwing a 900 is like a dude throwing down a 1080.
> 
> I can't think of any.


Well there was the Battle of the Sexes tennis match, in which the woman won. However the guy was a complete chauvinist and deserved to lose.


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## MunkySpunk (Jan 7, 2009)

CaptT said:


> she did it with a bad shin.....I can do it with a bad knee......then I hit the park.....probably not the best idea.


Pain and injury are not necessarily the same. Therein lies the logical fault in applying Vonn's situation to your own. 



BurtonX8 said:


> Well there was the Battle of the Sexes tennis match, in which the woman won. However the guy was a complete chauvinist and deserved to lose.


That and the man was 55yo ex-pro and challenged the reigning 30yo female champ. There was only one way that was going to end. :laugh:


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## Guest (Feb 22, 2010)

Let me make this simple for everyone...

Girls rule. Boys Drool.

End of story.

(jk jk lol....)


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## CaptT (Sep 23, 2009)

MunkySpunk said:


> Pain and injury are not necessarily the same. Therein lies the logical fault in applying Vonn's situation to your own.



And the fact that she is a world class athlete....of which I am nowhere in the same league....like I have said before...sometimes I have more balls then brains.....that is usually the way it works isn't it?? You get the balls but no brains:cheeky4::cheeky4:


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## jegnorge (Feb 15, 2010)

CaptT said:


> Yeah....I get that....doesn't mean I am capable of stopping myself in the heat of the moment though.....zero self control....


i love girls with no self control. i just get them drunk and... :cheeky4:


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## CaptT (Sep 23, 2009)

jegnorge said:


> i love girls with no self control. i just get them drunk and... :cheeky4:



Oh I have lots of self control in that department.....


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## jegnorge (Feb 15, 2010)

CaptT said:


> Oh I have lots of self control in that department.....


that's what they all say... :laugh:


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## HUNT24/7 (Feb 8, 2010)

Leo said:


> Actually, the closest comparison to Tiger Woods is Michelle Wie. Her drive is around 280-300 yards.


2009 LPGA Driving Distance

1 Yani Tseng 271.9
2 Brittany Lincicome 271.5
3 Vicky Hurst 271.4
4 Michelle Wie 269.2
5 Suzann Pettersen 269.1
6 Jee Young Lee 267.3
7 Sophie Gustafson 267.2
8 Karin Sjodin 266.6
9 Brittany Lang 265.3
10 Karen Stupples

2009 PGA Driving Distance

1	Bubba Watson 319.6 2	J.B. Holmes 318.8	
3	Robert Garrigus 309.8	
4	Brett Wetterich 307.8	
5	John Daly 307.1	
6	Tiger Woods 306.4	
7	Ryan Hietala 305.9	
8	Tag Ridings 305.3	
9	Harrison Frazar 304.6	
10	Charley Hoffman	304.4


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## Guest (Feb 23, 2010)

CaptT said:


> And the fact that she is a world class athlete....of which I am nowhere in the same league....like I have said before...sometimes I have more balls then brains.....that is usually the way it works isn't it?? You get the balls but no brains:cheeky4::cheeky4:




I like the way you think Captain T haha :laugh:


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