# Can only do Corked 360s?



## SnowOwl (Jun 11, 2012)

So earlier in the season I was able to land little frontside 3's off little features, but I destroyed my front ankle and broke my toe mid season so when I resumed (2 weeks later:laugh I wasn't able to go frontside anymore because it put too much tension on my front ankle causing sharp pain. So I tried backside...and I got em down nice...but somehow I cork them? So basically...I can only do corked backside 360's. Besides the fact that I've completely skipped 180s(which I will work on), Is this going to hamper my progression if I don't try to get down regular 3's? Or will this give me an advantage with more advanced tricks later?


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## Casual (Feb 9, 2011)

If you can't do 180's and you can't control your 360's to spin the way you want them I would say your way ahead of yourself and you need to back it up to straight airs until you have control and learn proper 180's.


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## Extremo (Nov 6, 2008)

Casual said:


> If you can't do 180's and you can't control your 360's to spin the way you want them I would say your way ahead of yourself and you need to back it up to straight airs until you have control and learn proper 180's.


I second this. Back in the day I used to be guilty of this same thing. Learning proper 180's is crucial to having control in the air.


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## SnowOwl (Jun 11, 2012)

Casual said:


> If you can't do 180's and you can't control your 360's to spin the way you want them I would say your way ahead of yourself and you need to back it up to straight airs until you have control and learn proper 180's.


If I do it corked every time, doing the same approach, with the same result, I'd say they're being thrown the way I want them to be thrown. I realized it was corked after the first attempts, and liked it, so I kept with it, and nailed them down now. Why would I have to back up to straight airs if i can hit transfers, spines, hips, etc, do different grabs, and cork a backside on command? I do them on purpose, fully aware i'm using a cork approach. I can 180 onto a box and out, I hit jibs and can go switch out, so it's not like i'm beyond my ability to control the board. Obviously I'll be going back to work on the 1's, but they will be easy enough. Plus like I said, i was able to go frontside before my injury. Which leads me back to my original question



Extremo said:


> I second this. Back in the day I used to be guilty of this same thing. Learning proper 180's is crucial to having control in the air.


I do agree. It's not like I'm just going to skip it all. I guess I'm asking in a general sense is learning a corked 3 before a regular 3 going to make it harder on me to learn more adv tricks later?


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## Casual (Feb 9, 2011)

Then my answer to you is yes, this will hamper your progression because you are skipping cruicial steps. Your not going to get a different answer on this forum I can assure you of that so if you came here looking for someone to say good job, move onto 1080's now it's not gonna happen.


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## SnowOwl (Jun 11, 2012)

Casual said:


> Then my answer to you is yes, this will hamper your progression because you are skipping cruicial steps. Your not going to get a different answer on this forum I can assure you of that so if you came here looking for someone to say good job, move onto 1080's now it's not gonna happen.


read my edit. No need to get butt hurt because I'm not bowing down and taking your word. I'm challenging ideas so I can have a better understanding of what I need to do. I'm not going to just do what I"m told because someone said so, not without fully understanding. Calm yourself. Plus you didn't even answer my question the first time without telling me WHY, all you said was to go back to straight airs.


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## Casual (Feb 9, 2011)

lmao... who's butthurt?

I did answer your question, you just didn't like the answer.

My point is that if you truly had good board control spinning a 360 would not be hard for you to spin flat, your stating that "somehow" you cork them, which means you don't really know why therefore you can't control it. This is not a good thing.


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## SnowOwl (Jun 11, 2012)

Casual said:


> lmao... who's butthurt?
> 
> I did answer your question, you just didn't like the answer.


So this:


Casual said:


> If you can't do 180's and you can't control your 360's to spin the way you want them I would say your way ahead of yourself and you need to back it up to straight airs until you have control and learn proper 180's.


is your version of answering this?


tylerkat89 said:


> Is this going to hamper my progression if I don't try to get down regular 3's? Or will this give me an advantage with more advanced tricks later?


Anyone with self respect wouldn't like that answer.



Casual said:


> My point is that if you truly had good board control spinning a 360 would not be hard for you to spin flat, your stating that "somehow" you cork them, which means you don't really know why therefore you can't control it. This is not a good thing.




I also stated I do them on purpose. Using a cork approach, I execute a cork spin. *On purpose*. I can't do regulars because it hurts my ankle. Sorry you're clinging onto how I first illustrated my question, I was just trying to illustrate my confusion on how this even came to be.

Extremo answered me better with his ending sentence


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## Casual (Feb 9, 2011)

I answered you in my first post 

Your way ahead of yourself and you need to back it up to straight airs until you have control and learn proper 180's.

Shall we dance somemore? :dizzy:


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## SnowOwl (Jun 11, 2012)

Casual said:


> I answered you in my first post
> 
> Your way ahead of yourself and you need to back it up to straight airs until you have control and learn proper 180's.
> 
> Shall we dance somemore? :dizzy:


Nah I'm satisfied now


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## Cr0_Reps_Smit (Jun 27, 2009)

tylerkat89 said:


> So basically...I can only do corked backside 360's. Besides the fact that I've completely skipped 180s(which I will work on), Is this going to hamper my progression if I don't try to get down regular 3's? Or will this give me an advantage with more advanced tricks later?


if you can't spin flat before corking you will throw yourself off once you start doing bigger tricks, your body gets used to throwing it one way and when you want to try something different muscle memory takes over. 
being able to control whether you spin flat, cork, and how much you cork is huge when going to bigger jumps or trying to turn the 3's into 5's, 7's and so on.


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## Jed (May 11, 2011)

*Your why:* It's going to screw you up when you hit bigger jumps and spin bigger rotations because you aren't able to control your cork properly.

Anyone can cork by throwing their shoulder down, but being able to control how much you cork and when you cork is going to be more and more important as you hit bigger features and do bigger tricks.

Learning control over how and when you spin is a fundamental basic skill that you'll use for a lot of other snowboard tricks and if you skip it you're only handicapping yourself later and building bad muscle memory.

Oh and I highly suggest going back and learning 180s. Skipping steps in progression is always a bad idea.


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## SnowOwl (Jun 11, 2012)

Jed said:


> *Your why:* It's going to screw you up when you hit bigger jumps and spin bigger rotations because you aren't able to control your cork properly.
> 
> Anyone can cork by throwing their shoulder down, but being able to control how much you cork and when you cork is going to be more and more important as you hit bigger features and do bigger tricks.
> 
> ...





Cr0_Reps_Smit said:


> if you can't spin flat before corking you will throw yourself off once you start doing bigger tricks, your body gets used to throwing it one way and when you want to try something different muscle memory takes over.
> being able to control whether you spin flat, cork, and how much you cork is huge when going to bigger jumps or trying to turn the 3's into 5's, 7's and so on.


Awesome. Thank you. Now I understand ,didn't mean to be a challenging troll. I just want to understand more so I know what to work on or w.e. thank you both. And I will do the 180s. One of the sexiest things imo is a nice front 1


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## goalieman24 (Aug 28, 2009)

tylerkat89 said:


> I also stated I do them on purpose. Using a cork approach, I execute a cork spin. *On purpose*. I can't do regulars because it hurts my ankle.


This doesn't make sense. You claim you do them on purpose, yet you initially said you're not sure how you do them(and that you can only do them that way). To me, doing something on purpose implies that there are other possible options... which for you, seems like there aren't.

On another note, would love to see these "corked" 360s. In my opinion(and others), it's not really cork-able until you spin another rotation.


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## Casual (Feb 9, 2011)

goalieman24 said:


> This doesn't make sense. You claim you do them on purpose, yet you initially said you're not sure how you do them(and that you can only do them that way). To me, doing something on purpose implies that there are other possible options... which for you, seems like there aren't.
> 
> On another note, would love to see these "corked" 360s. In my opinion(and others), it's not really cork-able until you spin another rotation.


I know right? :icon_scratch:


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## SnowOwl (Jun 11, 2012)

goalieman24 said:


> This doesn't make sense. You claim you do them on purpose, yet you initially said you're not sure how you do them(and that you can only do them that way). To me, doing something on purpose implies that there are other possible options... which for you, seems like there aren't.
> 
> On another note, would love to see these "corked" 360s. In my opinion(and others), it's not really cork-able until you spin another rotation.


guess you missed the part where i already addressed that. Go back and read it. Pretty sure a corked spin is a spin that's off axis or am I wrong? I'm sure it's easily possible to rotate 360 degrees off axis. Planets do it no?


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## goalieman24 (Aug 28, 2009)

tylerkat89 said:


> guess you missed the part where i already addressed that. Go back and read it. Pretty sure a corked spin is a spin that's off axis or am I wrong? I'm sure it's easily possible to rotate 360 degrees off axis. Planets do it no?


I did read it, and my point remains the same. You're saying its on purpose, but you can't do it any other way. If it was on purpose, you'd be able to spin other ways. 
"I'm sure it's easily possible to rotate 360 degrees off axis" doesn't sound like something someone would say if they were actually doing it. Those who have said they do this "trick" usually just end up doing some sloppy and flailing spin. Videos needed, otherwise my doubt remains.
Not a great planet analogy either...


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## SnowOwl (Jun 11, 2012)

goalieman24 said:


> I did read it, and my point remains the same. You're saying its on purpose, but you can't do it any other way. If it was on purpose, you'd be able to spin other ways.
> "I'm sure it's easily possible to rotate 360 degrees off axis" doesn't sound like something someone would say if they were actually doing it. Those who have said they do this "trick" usually just end up doing some sloppy and flailing spin. Videos needed, otherwise my doubt remains.
> Not a great planet analogy either...


So when I said I used shitty wording to illustrate my confusion on how this even came to be and me saying that it was poor wording wasn't good enough for you? Wow. Anyway, I also said I have issues with other rotations because my injury. Pretty sure that means I'm making a conscious decision to purposely use a different attempt to avoid further aggravating my injury. Planet wasn't good enough? Get a ball. pierce a stick through it off centered. Now rotate the ball around the stick. Off centered rotation. Same thing. Are you just trying to troll me or something? And I'm not gonna post a video to satisfy a trolls doubt.


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## Jed (May 11, 2011)

I think they're getting confused because a cork 3 usually put you in kind of an awkward angle to land. People don't typically cork spins below 540 because of this.

It can be done, but it's pretty awkward and requires a lot of adjusting of your body to fix your angle mid air and land properly.

This goes back to understanding basic spinning and corked technique, but you'll find that with proper technique on corking and spinning it's 100 times more fun and easier to cork 540 vs. doing a cork 360 that doesn't naturally fit into an off-axis rotation.


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## Casual (Feb 9, 2011)

This is such a troll thread.

OP doesn't want your honest opinion, he wants you to say "wow man you can cork your 3's, that's so rad!".

I know so many guys that learned varial kickflips skateboarding because they were fucking up their kickflips and they were like "rad man I got varial flips". They could not do kickflips though, and the varial versions were horrid because they weren't really trying for those either.

Landing one trick because you fucked up another isn't progression.

If you are injured maybe you should stop snowboarding until you're able to do so without pain. But getting pissed at everyone that's giving you good advice is just dumb. You change your story with every post and your ego clearly is not capable of taking criticism so I suggest not posting on a forum at all. Every one is telling you to back it up and learn fundamentals, stop getting upset at them for being honest.


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## SnowOwl (Jun 11, 2012)

Casual said:


> This is such a troll thread.
> 
> OP doesn't want your honest opinion, he wants you to say "wow man you can cork your 3's, that's so rad!".
> 
> ...


Someone doesn't know how to read. I challenged only one person because i didnt have a true understanding of why not, which two people proceeded to clarify for me which I even thanked them for. Then someone else chimes in giving you support on issues already addressed.. How am I getting pissed at everyone? Can you show me? I think anybody deserves a clear understanding when they post a thread asking for advice? I'm not looking for anyone to pat my back, there are people far better than me obviously so why would I care? Don't have to get all pissy because you couldn't answer the question as thoroughly as the other two have. It's okay I appreciate it though. Anyway this is getting off hand.. Ill be working on mastering control of regular rotations both front and back and even the 1s in order to have full understanding and control of the board rotating in mid air. Happy?


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## Donutz (May 12, 2010)

Casual said:


> This is such a troll thread.
> 
> OP doesn't want your honest opinion, he wants you to say "wow man you can cork your 3's, that's so rad!".


From where I sit, it doesn't look like OP is the one keeping the flames going.

Seems to me that this has been beaten to death.


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## goalieman24 (Aug 28, 2009)

tylerkat89 said:


> So when I said I used shitty wording to illustrate my confusion on how this even came to be and me saying that it was poor wording wasn't good enough for you? Wow. Anyway, I also said I have issues with other rotations because my injury. Pretty sure that means I'm making a conscious decision to purposely use a different attempt to avoid further aggravating my injury. *Planet wasn't good enough? Get a ball. pierce a stick through it off centered. Now rotate the ball around the stick. Off centered rotation. Same thing*. Are you just trying to troll me or something? And I'm not gonna post a video to satisfy a trolls doubt.


Planet, ball... It doesn't matter. I said it wasn't a good analogy because it doesn't apply, I wasn't looking for a lesson on off-axis spinning. A ball is a simple, symmetrical object. It doesn't have a long body, limbs, and a snowboard attached to it perpendicularly. And as Jed already explained, corked 3's(on a snowboard by a human, not by venus) just aren't done.
I couldnt care less whether you post a video and your reasoning for not doing it...because in the end, I'm not the one looking for help.


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## Cr0_Reps_Smit (Jun 27, 2009)

Snowolf said:


> It has been my personal experience and coaching experience that corking backside spins is an easy habit to get into and seems to be caused primarily from diving into the spin or dipping the front shoulder if that makes sense.


Yup, after I first learned regular back 5s and started turning them into cork back 5s it was very hard for me to flatten them out again so I can take them to bigger spins and jumps. It was only just this year that I finally started really being able to control how much I cork depending on the jump I am hitting and it feels awesome to actually be able to control it and not just throw it, hoping I come around to my feet.

I never had a problem with it on jumps smaller then 30-40 feet but once I started trying to take it to bigger jumps I would over cork the rotation and end up on my back, which never feels good.


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## bamfb2 (Mar 16, 2011)

Tangential question (was going to start my own thread, but it fits here):

I took the opportunity to hit up an air bag today. I finished my allotted runs and the guy told me I could just lap it til closing - about 45 min more. So I kind of built in some muscle memory (not necessarily good).

The kicker to this thing was a straight up vertical booter, like most are I believe. I was trying to practice regular spins (mostly front side), but kept rotating off axis. I tried to get my weight on my front, pop with both feet, etc, but I couldn't flatten the thing out.

My question: is it harder to do flat 360s/540s/etc on one of these really steep kickers?

I went to the park after, and did a jump line I normally hit. My balance was all fucked up and I kept landing in the backseat.


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## bamfb2 (Mar 16, 2011)

Snowolf said:


> I think spinning (or rather trying) is much harder on steep kickers. It seems by nature, they are going to cork you. I hate those steep ones and if they don't have kickers that give a flatter trajectory, I use the roller to the side to get my air.



I was trying to spin as hard as possible and I kept landing on my back (occasionally my head!). It did not give me a lot of confidence to huck one on a regular jump. It should be easier on the regular jump, so I'll just go, 1,3,5,.... and work my way slowly up.


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## Jed (May 11, 2011)

bamfb2 said:


> I was trying to spin as hard as possible and I kept landing on my back (occasionally my head!). It did not give me a lot of confidence to huck one on a regular jump. It should be easier on the regular jump, so I'll just go, 1,3,5,.... and work my way slowly up.


Saw your reply in the other thread asking for my input here, always happy to help.

As far as steep jumps goes, it can be harder to spin off those super steep jumps mainly because they tend to favor corked spins which most people learning spinning aren't trying to do yet.

The important thing with those steep jumps is your pop and balance technique on the jump is even more important than normal because you don't want to end up upside down by accident.

In regards to your spinning, I'd recommend actually not trying to spin as hard as possible. Often the reason people throw their spin technique off is they're trying too hard to huck the spin instead of focusing on using good carving+release technique that will make the spin happen naturally.

For example, with perfect carving technique and pop+timing you can actually spin 360s with basically no pre-wind and hucking. Try to focus on technique and timing instead of the amount of strength you use to execute the spin.

Here's a blog I did that might help you: The Secret To An Effortless 360 Rotation - The Perfect Carve Line

Feel free to ask if you need me to clarify anything.


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## bamfb2 (Mar 16, 2011)

Awesome Jed. Thanks. Will take some time to read/digest the blog post and get back to you if necessary.


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## SnowOwl (Jun 11, 2012)

Jed said:


> Saw your reply in the other thread asking for my input here, always happy to help.
> 
> As far as steep jumps goes, it can be harder to spin off those super steep jumps mainly because they tend to favor corked spins which most people learning spinning aren't trying to do yet.
> 
> ...


This I can obviously apply to myself as well and I think this will help a lot with Me being hesitant because I'm trying to muscle so much It's torquing my ankle. 



Snowolf said:


> Generally, yes learning to do any snowboarding movement creates muscle memory. The more you do your BS 360`s corked the more ingrained they will become and this will add extra challenge to learning to do them in a level flight attitude.
> 
> 
> The reason these guys have urged you to step back to 180`s is because the 180 does not require any prewinding and it is a much easier backside spin to accomplish from a slight toeside carve and a pop. This will help you dial in the feel of initiating the spin with a much quieter upper body and more level flight attitude.


The first part I think is what i was generally trying to ask? But Yeah now I know better. I'll be out there again on Sunday and will work on controlling normal rotations and the 1s


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