# Edges grabbing on hard or icy snow



## chomps1211 (Mar 30, 2011)

Probably need a better description of what you mean by "grabby!"

Were you suddenly decelerating at various times, like someone applied the brakes? If so, while on edge or flat based? 

Or were your edges "catching" or hooking various bumps, grooves, or other irregularities in the snow? Or maybe it was they felt like they weren't _releasing_ when transitioning from one edge to another?

These different descriptions of "grabby" might have different causes and/or fixes. :shrug:


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## SBK (Sep 14, 2011)

Definitely the former, like the brakes were being applied while on edge. 

If I started into a turn, the longer I held it the harder it "braked" to the point where I would almost come to a stop or get pulled to the ground.


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## Rip154 (Sep 23, 2017)

That version was exceptionally grabby in the right conditions.


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## chomps1211 (Mar 30, 2011)

Well,.. I _was_ going to say that, _that_ sounds like the shop screwed up your edge tune! But now it seems @Rip154 is suggesting that your '12 version of Magnetraction might be at fault. 

If it does seem worse than before? It Might be that tuning the Mag along with your edges may have exacerbated the issue? :shrug:

(...wunder if de-tuning mag is possible or even recommended?)


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## SBK (Sep 14, 2011)

It did seem to seem to coincide with the tune/wax but the conditions were not as good either on day 2, the groomers were firmer after a busy day and another thaw/freeze cycle.

I didn't have my second board with me for comparisons sake but it sounds pretty plausible that it is related to the board's magne traction and the tune.

I'll have to keep an eye on that. I may ask the next shop I'm in if a de-tune is in order since it's not something I'd be comfortable attempting.

Thanks for the quick replies.


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## Rip154 (Sep 23, 2017)

Have you tried iceskating on soft ice btw? That's not very nice either.


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## taco tuesday (Jul 26, 2014)

In my experience magnetraction tend to do that in certain harder conditions. Especially if it's the full mag not the mellowed versions.


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## speedjason (May 2, 2013)

I think it's just these peaks digging into snow harder than a board with out them.


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## MrDavey2Shoes (Mar 5, 2018)

ride more ice, dull those edges lol


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## Scalpelman (Dec 5, 2017)

I ride mag most days on NE ice. Never had this problem.


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## SBK (Sep 14, 2011)

Unfortunately with the milder temperatures in the PNW we get a lot of refreezing of snow at night so ice happens more often than I'd like. I try to avoid icy days but being limited to mostly weekend riding sometimes the conditions are what they are. I'll look into to detuning the edges or riding my other board that has the mellower mag profile when conditions are like this. Normally I'd have both boards with me but this past weekend only brought the shorter more forgiving one because it was our first weekend out.


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## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

SBK said:


> Unfortunately with the milder temperatures in the PNW we get a lot of refreezing of snow at night so ice happens more often than I'd like. I try to avoid icy days but being limited to mostly weekend riding sometimes the conditions are what they are. I'll look into to detuning the edges or riding my other board that has the mellower mag profile when conditions are like this. Normally I'd have both boards with me but this past weekend only brought the shorter more forgiving one because it was our first weekend out.



Don't detune. This year, me thinks its the sun, which is cooler/less radiant energy...so its doing unusual things to the snow....call me crazy :blahblah:

Anyway, the snow is not the hard glazed PNW concrete...its a tad less hard and has a tad of crunch....otoh with this bluebird sun the past few days, its not the usual January inversion freeze thaw...and the sun is not warming up the sunny exposed to the usual soft serve. Its funny that NWAC temps says that it hasn't dropped below 32, but the snow is definitely frozen but it also has not thawed. At Bakes, its not the usual hard boiler plate iced concrete, you can get somewhat of an edge, the snow seems a tad drier, the shavings are not the heavy sugar...but its faster and you can get a bit of edge....which makes it great for ripping solid carves. So methinks, with full mag...ehmm yea the serrated steak knife is to going to dig in more and drag. The past couple of days thought about bring out the old c2btx bpro...but have been very happy ripping with the old straight edged full cam.


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## SBK (Sep 14, 2011)

wrathfuldeity said:


> Don't detune. This year, me thinks its the sun, which is cooler/less radiant energy...so its doing unusual things to the snow....call me crazy :blahblah:
> 
> Anyway, the snow is not the hard glazed PNW concrete...its a tad less hard and has a tad of crunch....otoh with this bluebird sun the past few days, its not the usual January inversion freeze thaw...and the sun is not warming up the sunny exposed to the usual soft serve. Its funny that NWAC temps says that it hasn't dropped below 32, but the snow is definitely frozen but it also has not thawed. At Bakes, its not the usual hard boiler plate iced concrete, you can get somewhat of an edge, the snow seems a tad drier, the shavings are not the heavy sugar...but its faster and you can get a bit of edge....which makes it great for ripping solid carves. So methinks, with full mag...ehmm yea the serrated steak knife is to going to dig in more and drag. The past couple of days thought about bring out the old c2btx bpro...but have been very happy ripping with the old straight edged full cam.


I'm not confident enough on ice to carve!

About 9 years ago I went up to Baker for the first time on a sunny day convincing myself that the sun would soften the frozen snow despite low temps forecast. Needless to say we rode on ice the whole day and it's definitely affected my perception of Baker. Only been back once when we did get fresh snow but that was tracked out by our third run. I can see the draw of Baker if you are comfortable on steeper terrain and in the slackcountry but for a middling inbounds rider it is too far a drive from Seattle for a day trip. I am jealous of folks that live closer and have the flexibility to hit it mid-week on short notice.


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## f00bar (Mar 6, 2014)

So in conclusion: PNW sucks. Come to the Northeast.


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## Rip154 (Sep 23, 2017)

Gotta love some good quality ice to hone those edges.


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## firstx1017 (Jan 10, 2011)

Nice to read that someone else has noticed this on their board also. I have had it happen a few times this year where I would yell at my husband that my board is catching and it is freaking me out. Sometimes it will throw me off balance and I have to pull quite a dance number to remain upright. We ride the same runs, basically have the same boards, and he keeps telling me, "well, it doesn't happen to me!" :angry1: We do have magnatraction on our boards. Only happens on the icy days...... :crazy2: We'll see how the rest of the season goes.


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## lab49232 (Sep 13, 2011)

Ya a lot of people here I dont think understand exactly what is going on. Ive had this happen to me on two boards now, a no name brand and a Rome Mod. Sadly I actually somehow have no idea what causes it. 

To put in more in perspective it feels like you hit a velcro patch or a sudden bit of glue like when you hit a really dry box and your board doesn't want to slide. It feels like you need a bunch of fresh wax but oddly it's also only ever happened to me on days after I waxed my board. Its not magna traction just digging in or anything. Im wondering if its a janky edge that could be smoothed out but it always feels more like its the base grabbing.

I wish I had insight in to what causes it but IDK. Ive ridden for 20+ years and only recently had this phenomenon happen to me. My Mod was fine for 2 seasons, season three all the sudden half way through the day no matter if I waxed in the morning after each day it just stops wanting to slide along the edge of the base. Very very confusing.


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## chomps1211 (Mar 30, 2011)

This is happening when you're on _edge_ right?? *Not* flat basing on a wet or slushy day? 

So you're sure this is _NOT_ board suck?? You're up on edge, on a cold day, riding ice or hard pack?? :shrug:

It does sound like this is a Mag thing! (_I don't have any Mag boards, so I can't comment definitively!_) :embarrased1: :shrug:

I've had something similar happen to me on *very* cold, sub zero days, when flat basing. You hit a patch of velcro snow and the board decelerates suddenly and it feels like you're gonna go over the handlebars! Freshly waxed or no, doesn't seem to matter! 

Same type thing happens on warm, wet, slushy days, flat basing (...or even on edge if it's _really_ sloppy!) Board suck! And it *Sucks!!!* It will throw you down if it can! 

But _this_ doesn't sound like that! :shrug:

As a matter of fact, IIR correctly, on those really, _Really_ cold days, when I've experienced the "Velcro Snow." It happens rather inconsistently,.. It's like it grabs, lets go, and maybe grabs again right away, or maybe not! But it feels kinda like the brakes go on, get stuck for a second and then let go again?? And it might happen two, three, several different times during a run or it might not happen at all? 

Like _that_ throughout the day?? :shrug:


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## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

Well if its really cold days...maybe the wrong wax...but if only happens occasionally when on edge...then its the sun doing funny things...or maybe you hit a little worm hole...ya know cosmic snowboarding is what I say. Eat more mushrooms!


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## Rip154 (Sep 23, 2017)

It's not the wax or the mag, even tho you can feel it more than with straight sidecuts. Must be magnetic aliendust in the snow.


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## lab49232 (Sep 13, 2011)

wrathfuldeity said:


> Well if its really cold days...maybe the wrong wax...but if only happens occasionally when on edge...then its the sun doing funny things...or maybe you hit a little worm hole...ya know cosmic snowboarding is what I say. Eat more mushrooms!


Ya its something along these lines. And it seems like once it starts its an inconsistent but very common thing. Like you'll feel it catch and release multiple times during each run.


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

firstx1017 said:


> Nice to read that someone else has noticed this on their board also. I have had it happen a few times this year where I would yell at my husband that my board is catching and it is freaking me out. Sometimes it will throw me off balance and I have to pull quite a dance number to remain upright. We ride the same runs, basically have the same boards, and he keeps telling me, "well, it doesn't happen to me!" :angry1: We do have magnatraction on our boards. Only happens on the icy days...... :crazy2: We'll see how the rest of the season goes.


If it happens in very cold temps, it's the wrong wax. Cold snow is like sandpaper which adds resistance, board won't glide well if it has no cold wax. Your hub is faster as he's heavier. If it happens in warm temps, it's the lack of structure on the base. Warm snow is wet and has lot of sucction which is reduced by structure (stone grind) in base. 

What OP describes - breaking on edge - sounds like a magne issue. However, I feel the slight breaking of magne on soft snow, didn't feel it on hardsnow, but my magne board has only mellow magnetraction :dunno:. Swap your board for a run with someone else and see, if the other board does the same, your biard does the same with the other person, so you can check, if it's the conditions, you, or the board.


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## SBK (Sep 14, 2011)

neni said:


> If it happens in very cold temps, it's the wrong wax. Cold snow is like sandpaper which adds resistance, board won't glide well if it has no cold wax. Your hub is faster as he's heavier. If it happens in warm temps, it's the lack of structure on the base. Warm snow is wet and has lot of sucction which is reduced by structure (stone grind) in base.
> 
> What OP describes - breaking on edge - sounds like a magne issue. However, I feel the slight breaking of magne on soft snow, didn't feel it on hardsnow, but my magne board has only mellow magnetraction :dunno:. Swap your board for a run with someone else and see, if the other board does the same, your biard does the same with the other person, so you can check, if it's the conditions, you, or the board.


I'm going to keep an eye on this and see if and when it happens again. It was only when on edge turning that it was a problem and it did freak me out a bit the first time it happened and pulled me out of balance resulting with a slow landing on my backside. The fact that it came after having the edges sharpened certainly points to that combined with the magne traction as the culprit. The temperature were only in the 0C to -5C range so not real cold.

To bad because I mainly have the magne traction board for icier days. I din't have a board to swap with that day, my other board was at home and my GF has smaller bindings and a board that I'm to heavy for.


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## f00bar (Mar 6, 2014)

I think it's just that sometimes you have days that you are just off and a small change in conditions, especially if they get harder, can be all it takes.

Last weekend for whatever reason I was terrible riding switch. It seemed like I had taken 3 steps back in my progress with it after some good sessions the last 3 times. The difference being springlike conditions turning to hard packed.


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## freshy (Nov 18, 2009)

SBK said:


> Finally got out on the slopes over the weekend and had a somewhat curious experience on day 2.
> 
> We were at Mission Ridge and the conditions were packed groomers with temperatures mostly in the low to mid 20's and bluebird.
> 
> ...


Wait so day 1 with no wax your boards rode fine but day 2 with a wax job it got grabby? Was the snow a lot harder day 2?
Are you sure you weren't booting out? 

It seems to me if it were the wax you'd experience it while flat basing.
If it were the edge you probably would have experienced that on day 1. If there is not an obvious dent, kink or chuck of edge messed up it's probably not the edge. I have never experienced that in my 10 years on mag.

So I ask again; you sure you weren't booting out?


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## SBK (Sep 14, 2011)

freshy said:


> Wait so day 1 with no wax your boards rode fine but day 2 with a wax job it got grabby? Was the snow a lot harder day 2?
> Are you sure you weren't booting out?
> 
> It seems to me if it were the wax you'd experience it while flat basing.
> ...


Pretty sure not booting out, definitely the edges grabbing. It was quite a bit firmer in my opinion day two. It had snowed midweek and probably gotten lite traffic Thursday and Friday before the weekend crowd on Saturday so it set up more on Sunday.

Also had the edges tuned along with the wax so that along with the icier conditions are the likely culprit.


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## freshy (Nov 18, 2009)

SBK said:


> Pretty sure not booting out, definitely the edges grabbing. It was quite a bit firmer in my opinion day two. It had snowed midweek and probably gotten lite traffic Thursday and Friday before the weekend crowd on Saturday so it set up more on Sunday.
> 
> Also had the edges tuned along with the wax so that along with the icier conditions are the likely culprit.


Hmm yeah I guess that seems reasonable, hopefully it will be gone next time out.


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

SBK said:


> Also had the edges tuned along with the wax so that along with the icier conditions are the likely culprit.


Hmmm.. they probably forgot to fine tune at the end and didn't file off some overhangs which now may grab.


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## Rip154 (Sep 23, 2017)

Crusty conditions will do this. Your edges get stuck.


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