# diode vs cartel vs SL vs atlas



## ksup3erb (Jan 25, 2013)

SL. Cartel and Atlas not balls enough for those boards.


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## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

ksup3erb said:


> SL. Cartel and Atlas not balls enough for those boards.


Yeahhh, the SL's are not stiffer than Cartels. Its the Atlas frame which is softer than the Force which isnt super stiff itself.

I'd say Cartels from that short list.


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## hktrdr (Apr 3, 2012)

ksup3erb said:


> SL. Cartel and Atlas not balls enough for those boards.


Wrong.

10 characters


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## Extremo (Nov 6, 2008)

hktrdr said:


> Wrong.
> 
> 10 characters


+1

If the reflex cartel are softer than the previous cartel then they are def softer than the SL's.

The Atlas and the Force baseplates are similar in stiffness. The Atlas just has a smaller contact profile so there's less dead spot. But from edge to edge, it's almost identical..med-stiff.


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## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

I will have to respectfully disagree. 

After riding the Atlas I cant see them being a med-stiff frame. The frame had about as much give as my old Quattro's which were just a polycarb frame with no glass. I'd give it just below mid. And the new Cartel highback felt only marginally stiffer than the Atlas. Fairly close really. So if the SL uses the same frame as the Atlas the highback would have to be like Ride SPi stiff and I just dont see that happening from Union, it's not how they build their bindings.


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## Mel M (Feb 2, 2012)

Nivek said:


> I will have to respectfully disagree.
> 
> After riding the Atlas I cant see them being a med-stiff frame. The frame had about as much give as my old Quattro's which were just a polycarb frame with no glass. I'd give it just below mid. And the new Cartel highback felt only marginally stiffer than the Atlas. Fairly close really. So if the SL uses the same frame as the Atlas the highback would have to be like Ride SPi stiff and I just dont see that happening from Union, it's not how they build their bindings.


So after riding them, did you feel their responsiveness matched their stiffness? I hear their bindings are akin to a Burton Ion... very responsive for their flex rating.


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## Extremo (Nov 6, 2008)

Nivek said:


> I will have to respectfully disagree.
> 
> After riding the Atlas I cant see them being a med-stiff frame. The frame had about as much give as my old Quattro's which were just a polycarb frame with no glass. I'd give it just below mid. And the new Cartel highback felt only marginally stiffer than the Atlas. Fairly close really. So if the SL uses the same frame as the Atlas the highback would have to be like Ride SPi stiff and I just dont see that happening from Union, it's not how they build their bindings.


Yeah I can see that. The Atlas baseplate def isn't as stiff as the previous SL carbon injected one that is currently on the Charger. I'd say the Charger baseplate is med-stiff, the Atlas medium. But I still say its in the same class as the non-reflex Cartel. I haven't riddent he reflex so I coudn't say really, only that I've heard others report that it's more flexible.

Even though the Cartel highback is noticably stiffer the power transfer of the Atlas exceeds it.


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## J.Schaef (Sep 13, 2009)

Cartels.

(notenoughwords)


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## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

That empty cavity under the heel just killed any kind of precision for me on heelside turns with the Atlas. This is one of the big reasons I think the Factory will be that much better than the Atlas.

Reflex softens up the ride a bit, but I never felt like it effected the precision and power I could get out of the binding. By killing the dead spot the way the do in the middle of the binding with the flex disc and hinged frame maintains 90% of the precision of the solid disc frames. The way Union does it with picking the frame off the board and putting down EVA works differently. It has a certain "mush" factor since when you push into the frame it has to push through the bushing to get to the board. Characteristically it is a surfier skatey feel that is great for some, not so great for others. I personally never had an issue with it with any of mine, it was other factors that pushed me into other brands.


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## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

Mel M said:


> So after riding them, did you feel their responsiveness matched their stiffness? I hear their bindings are akin to a Burton Ion... very responsive for their flex rating.


For the Atlas specifically I felt the opposite. That empty cavity under the heel really ruined it for me. It collapses under weight and the binding just felt sunken to me. I think its the exact reason the Factory for 2014 has that area filled in. Overall it felt like my boots were doing more work than the binding.


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## Extremo (Nov 6, 2008)

Nivek said:


> That empty cavity under the heel just killed any kind of precision for me on heelside turns with the Atlas. This is one of the big reasons I think the Factory will be that much better than the Atlas.


Haha.. seriously? Do you have 2 inch wide boots or something? The cavity is only 2 inches wide. After the EVA foam compacts your boots sit on the surface of the baseplate, if it even fully compacts. Coming from my Force which have next to no heel dampening and a ridge right in the middle of the heel I'd say response is no different. It reduces impact, but not response. Plus you get the added response from the power transfer of the toe strap that you don't with Burton's cap.


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## Mel M (Feb 2, 2012)

Nivek said:


> For the Atlas specifically I felt the opposite. That empty cavity under the heel really ruined it for me. It collapses under weight and the binding just felt sunken to me. I think its the exact reason the Factory for 2014 has that area filled in. Overall it felt like my boots were doing more work than the binding.


Can't really say I've felt my boots sink, but I wear Salomon Synapses, so I'm thinking the boot does most of the work anyway.



Extremo said:


> Haha.. seriously? Do you have 2 inch wide boots or something? The cavity is only 2 inches wide. After the EVA foam compacts your boots sit on the surface of the baseplate, if it even fully compacts. Coming from my Force which have next to no heel dampening and a ridge right in the middle of the heel I'd say response is no different. It reduces impact, but not response. Plus you get the added response from the power transfer of the toe strap that you don't with Burton's cap.


Agree, I love the response and dampness, but I could never get that damn Atlas toe strap to work with my boot no matter what I did.


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## wildshoetwt (Feb 14, 2013)

so i'm a bit confused what exactly was the consensus?

SLs or Cartels?

i probably also should have said that I ride a Burton Driver X so a v. stiff boot


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## Extremo (Nov 6, 2008)

wildshoetwt said:


> so i'm a bit confused what exactly was the consensus?
> 
> SLs or Cartels?
> 
> i probably also should have said that I ride a Burton Driver X so a v. stiff boot


Seriously, every binding is different. They fit boots differently, have different flex patterns, etc. It's all personal preference. As far as quality and versatility you can't go wrong with either.


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## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

Extremo said:


> Haha.. seriously? Do you have 2 inch wide boots or something? The cavity is only 2 inches wide. After the EVA foam compacts your boots sit on the surface of the baseplate, if it even fully compacts.


I'm not the only one that has felt it.
http://www.snowboardingforum.com/bindings/51122-union-atlas-heel-cushion-how-its.html

9 Lashed M/L binding.









Even if the boot wanted to naturally sit on the two rails it would get maybe a milimeter of boot on either side and after one turn would shift into the position pictured. All they need to do is fill it in, it wont negatively effect anything other than weight. And even then filling it with medium density EVA would add maybe a couple ounces.


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