# Ruddering. A time and place?



## cav0011 (Jan 4, 2009)

Ruddering is one method of turning, it is not the most ideal and has drawbacks on the amount of control you have etc. However there are times and places for all types of turns. When all people can do is rudder that is when it an issue because it will cause them to be unable to advance. 

It is no different then skiers using the little hop turn thinger before they learn how to really carve. It lets you get away with bad technique but will bit you when you get to more challenging terrain.

Anyway everything I just typed is conjecture because I don't have any certifications etc. It is just how I view things. 

Also I think most people rudder when they are not confident in their abilities on a run because it is how many people first learn to link turns. (reverting back to basics)


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## jml22 (Apr 10, 2012)

Pivot turns on steep carved out crap isn't so bad


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## SnowDogWax (Nov 8, 2013)

DYNAMIC! 
Use of ruddering in attacking moguls, steeps any terrain. Is just another tool. 
North/South

Stagnant
Improper use is just the opposite, its like what the hell did I get myself into. 
East/West


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## Donutz (May 12, 2010)

What's in a name? Snowolf didn't like ruddering, but he admitted there's a place for slash braking. In the broad strokes, they work like this:

Ruddering: Put your weight forward on your board, and swing the back out.
Slash braking: Put your weight forward on your board, and swing the back out.

I expect to get some flack for that, but the point is that the differences are subtle, and have more to do with your upper body than your lower body.

I use what snowolf called slash braking and what I called 'windshield wiping" when going down a narrow trail and I need to keep the speed down. Essentially the front of the board stays more or les in the center of the trail and the tail is swinging back and forth from side to side. The difference between this and what I used to do when I was a beginner (ruddering) is that I can slash/wipe/whatever without having to swing my arms in the other direction. So I think that whether or not you're using good technique is based on whether you're doing the twist or just shifting your weight.


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## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

Problem is if ruddering is your only tool in the box


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## chomps1211 (Mar 30, 2011)

wrathfuldeity said:


> Problem is if ruddering is your only tool in the box


Right! I get that. What I'm a little unclear about is _when_ is it an appropriate tool to use? Does it have a proper time and place where it is most effectively employed, or is it more of a "multi tool, fly by the seat of your pants" kind of maneuver.


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## Steezus Christ (Jul 29, 2013)

i only really "rudder" when narrow groomers are crowded and i want to take up minimal space on the trail and keep out of peoples way, otherwise i would be doing quick turns the full length of the narrow trail to control my speed. 

i blame the crowds for my bad habits!


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## jml22 (Apr 10, 2012)

It's actually more a term for explaining to a newbie that they're "ruddering" not actually carving.
There's nothing wrong with it, it's just not carving by any means


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## speedjason (May 2, 2013)

I prefer carving but some times people just sit there or some one is riding next to me I rudder a little to bleed the speed off.
its perfectly okay cuz clearly you are not travis rice who can just have a whole mountain to ride.


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## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

chomps1211 said:


> Right! I get that. What I'm a little unclear about is _when_ is it an appropriate tool to use? Does it have a proper time and place where it is most effectively employed, or is it more of a "multi tool, fly by the seat of your pants" kind of maneuver.


More of a multitool fly by the seat of your pants. There is this 45 degree, 10' narrow straight-line cattrack that I rudder...cause I'm too chickenshit to straight line mach the thing...because there is a merge cross-traffic at the bottom and some good sized trees on one side...and I don't want to be doing 70 mph at the bottom if straight lined bombed.


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## andrewdod (Mar 24, 2013)

i throw the rudder out when I wanna slow down, or like other said when I'm in a crowded area. Sometimes i might do it if im on a steep that i realize i'm going uncomfortably fast on, generally when i wanna be careful.


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## jml22 (Apr 10, 2012)

Everyone speed checks, we're not pro all mountain riders who bomb down at 80 mph.
It's perfectly fine, it's just a waste of energy and looks funny, but we all progress through this stage.


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## miplatt88 (May 13, 2013)

I usually rudder when I am running through moguls or trees. You do not have the room to perform an actual carve so you rudder. But then again I really don't know what you would use to go through trees and moguls. I would consider it kind of a hybrid riding. If you have to rudder then rudder, if you have to jump turn then jump turn, if you get lucky and the trees are spaced far enough apart then just carve it. TBH I do whatever I have to do to get through it. And moguls are typically just straight ruddering albeit with steez.


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## Eat Sleep Shred (Oct 1, 2013)

I never got while speed checks get any hate at all. Sure, heelside warriors riding straight down runs sloughing pow and ruining any hope for clean lines are flipping annoying. But tossing a speedcheck to control your speed in a pinch is a skill I put high value on. Sometimes there just isn't enough space to carve off your speed and dragging your edge is your safest bet to slow down. But when I learned to ride what we called "Ruddering" was simply applying torsion to the board to turn without engaging the sidecut. One half of the board would drag slightly which caused it to rotate, simple enough. I use that technique a lot in pow when digging your sidecut too much is a good way to eat it. It keeps you board mostly flat which maintains your float but still gives you a reliable turn.


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## snowklinger (Aug 30, 2011)

http://www.snowboardingforum.com/ti.../110585-having-some-issues-4.html#post1350529

what I said about it recently.



snowklinger said:


> Trees, and avoiding a gaper would be the top 2 of a million that come to mind. Crushing tight tree runs is all about using every form from falling leaf to carve. Ruddering is the easiest way to bleed speed without taking up any space along the fall line (read: dodging trees and humans).* Once you become proficient with front foot control and varying weight distribution through turns (most easily learned by feel by bending the knees, lowering the hips and pressuring the front foot throughout as your weight shifts through turns), the ruddering becomes more efficient and subtle at the same time.*




the bold is kind of a big sentence but I like it.


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## jtg (Dec 11, 2012)

I think the point is that you're supposed to use it to scrub speed, not to make turns. That's what newbs do wrong.


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

Could someone post a vid of this "ruddering", since I don't get the difference what you mean with ruddering and skidding...


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## speedjason (May 2, 2013)

neni said:


> Could someone post a vid of this "ruddering", since I don't get the difference what you mean with ruddering and skidding...


its the same thing.


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## elstinky (Jan 24, 2010)

is it? Or depends on context maybe? I thought ruddering usually means throwing the back out with the rear leg as a way to initiate a turn. A true skidded turn however would be initiated by flexing the front foot in order to engage an edge and then let the back foot and edge follow? Also some of the posts here make it sound like a skidded turn is a bad thing which makes no sense since it's the proper way to slow down - whereas with a proper carve you would actually gain speed?


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## snowklinger (Aug 30, 2011)

I think of ruddering where one foot is sort of flat and stationary while the other pivots back and forth, can be done with either foot. Simple boat rudder concept with one end fixed and the other flippyfloppy....


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## mojo maestro (Jan 6, 2009)

Huh........I thought ruddering was something that happened in the bathroom at gay bars.


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## aiidoneus (Apr 7, 2011)

I used to say that ruddering was an effective way for moguls. But as I have become increasing proficient in the moguls. I realize that I am not actually ruddering any more. Through the moguls you don't need to brake via the board unless you messed up. It is instead a combination of line choice and turn setup. 

So is it fine in steeps? I wouldn't agree unless it is actually tight enough that you can't turn properly. And if you can't turn it is probably a tight chute, maybe practice how to ride a chute properly instead.

Where would do I use ruddering? If you count a speed check before a feature as ruddering, then I do use it there.


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