# Which avalanche airbag?



## ETM (Aug 11, 2009)

Ok so Im moving to Japan in a few months and will be riding pretty much every day there is snow on the ground so my avalanche exposure is about to sky rocket. I have ast1 training and consider myself pretty cautious in avalanche terrain but the time has come to buy an airbag.
I have decided to not let price be a factor in my decision


Now I ride at resorts with a 20l pack but when I go on overnight trips I need around 50l capacity. I'm not interested in taking 2 packs on overnighters so a system where you can swap pack sizes would be awesome.

Being Japan not everything is easy to get so a generic type cartridge refill will be much better that something specific where you need to take it to a dealer to refill.

I realise there is some new battery type bags coming out this year but I dont know much about them. 

So for those who have experience, please school me, I'm all ears


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## ridinbend (Aug 2, 2012)

Over the past couple years the industry has evolved so quickly. There are a ton of new bags and technology on the market. Jones has a new bag with the RAS system which is interchangeable amongst various bags. I don't think you can lose on any bag. Black Diamond, Mammut, BCA, etc.


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

I’m not sure, if the battery system is an option for you, cos I’m not aware of them being interchangeable between backpacks... Read that 11, 28, and 40 liter sizes are announced from Black Diamond and 24 and 34 liter sizes from Pieps.

I've limited experience, just my line of thoughts to offer why I ended up with Mammut: the cardridge a) have no pyro-mechanism deployment (easier to fly with them) and b) can be refilled with compressed air by e.g. dive shops if you take adapters with you (some bucks a set). I just called local ski/snowboard shops to asked, where they have a place to refill in town (had it refilled in a fire department in AK once). 

Today, I wouldn't choose a cartridge system anymore but rather go with a battey system even tho I prefer the shape of the PAS airbag. It's PITA to fly with them in the US. It worked… (Air Alaska and British Airways accepted the cartridges without the slightest problem) but still, it's cumbersome (find a place to have them refilled again) and you are in a grey zone and never sure, if a nasty control freak security dude will confiscate the cartridges, cos they can. Other countries explicitly allow airbag system cartridges in planes, even as carry-on :dunno: 

Thus...
-> Do you intend to fly? If so, check the regulations of the countries you intend to go. 
-> If the country has strict regulations: Do you mind to be in the grey zone? Check, if you can rent cartridges locally (e.g. Mammut has a list of renting stations on their homepage. Unluckily, there was none in AK, thus I had to fly with my ones).
-> You don’t mind to be in the grey zone (my guide in AK told me that he’s done a hundred flights in the US with his, never had a problem)? Put them in your checked baggage and hope that they won’t be confiscated. If they are, be prepared to replace them i.e. know the shops to get them


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## ETM (Aug 11, 2009)

The jones bag looks great but only 18l and 30l. If they had 18l and 50l I would be on it in a heartbeat.

ABS have a 15l and a 55l which is perfect but Im not sold on the explosive trigger and needing to have the cannister refilled by a dealer. Thats a deal breaker for me.

BCA biggest is 42l which is a tad small for camping over night and non removable system

Mammut 35l max?

Black Diamond 40l max non removable and not available yet.

Ortovox 32+7l

Grrrr. Wonder If I could retro fit a RAS system to my current 49l touring pack?


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## ETM (Aug 11, 2009)

neni said:


> I’m not sure, if the battery system is an option for you, cos I’m not aware of them being interchangeable between backpacks... Read that 11, 28, and 40 liter sizes are announced from Black Diamond and 24 and 34 liter sizes from Pieps.
> 
> I've limited experience, just my line of thoughts to offer why I ended up with Mammut: the cardridge a) have no pyro-mechanism deployment (easier to fly with them) and b) can be refilled with compressed air by e.g. dive shops if you take adapters with you (some bucks a set). I just called local ski/snowboard shops to asked, where they have a place to refill in town (had it refilled in a fire department in AK once).
> 
> ...


Flying isnt a huge issue as Im moving to where I usually holiday but its always nice to have the option **cough AK trip cough**


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## ETM (Aug 11, 2009)

Also PAS bag looks great for head protection but would hinder you if you were actually trying to ride off the side of a slide rather than just giving up and going with it


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

ETM said:


> Also PAS bag looks great for head protection but would hinder you if you were actually trying to ride off the side of a slide rather than just giving up and going with it


I chose this one cos the head and body is better protected. The second part of your statement didn't even come to my mind, not my level of riding . Tho I'm not sure, if it would hinder more or less that other shapes. I've deployed a RAS as well and the bag pushes your head forwards/down quite a bit, I think, this won't help to ride off a slide.



ETM said:


> Mammut 35l max?
> ...
> Grrrr. Wonder If I could retro fit a RAS system to my current 49l touring pack?



45l with RAS system http:// http://www.mammut.ch/de/productDetail/261000640_v_0067_45/Pro-Removable-Airbag.html


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## killclimbz (Aug 10, 2007)

I am using the RAS system. The protection component not so sure it is a huge deal. Seems like they all do their job. 

As neni noted, they have a 45 liter pack for the RAS. I don't remember seeing any larger sizes to be offered at SIA.

The ABS system may have some options in larger sizes for you and are super easy to swap pack sizes with.


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## ETM (Aug 11, 2009)

Yeah the ABS seems to be my only option, super easy to swap pack sizes which is critical for me. Without being able to swap sizes I would either need 2 different packs or leave myself unprotected on overnighters which defeats the purpose of having one in the first place.
Now it comes down to how much fking around its going to be for me to get the thing refilled in the mountains of Nagano


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## tokyo_dom (Jan 7, 2013)

I am sure you already checked, but their website says they have a service centre in Tokyo. I am sure it sucks to have to leave snow paradise to get it refilled, but those cases where you do need to do it (i.e. after having been in an avalanche), are probably a good time to get away from the snow for a day or two


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## ETM (Aug 11, 2009)

Yeah copy that Dom. 
Im trying to buy one now less canister but its an absolute headache. Backcountry.com wont sell less canister.


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## ETM (Aug 11, 2009)

ETM said:


> Yeah copy that Dom.
> Im trying to buy one now less canister but its an absolute headache. Backcountry.com wont sell less canister.


Ok so after way too many hours on the www. I finally got it sorted out.
Ive gone with the ABS for a few reasons. 
Two air bags are definately better than one, if one pops you still have one left.
I think that the air bags sit lower on the body is a good thing and would help more of your body to stay on top of the snow.
The zip on zip off system is great.

The downer is that you have to buy the canister and trigger after every use and you cant fly with them easily. 

So I found a shop that will sell the base unit less canister and the zip on packs for a good price, once in japan I will buy the canister and trigger.


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## killclimbz (Aug 10, 2007)

ABS has set up a program with most of their vendors where you basically just bring the bag and rent the canister while you are there. Based on the traveler of course. If you are longer term, not sure if that is a solution or not. It is a solid system. 

Hopefully the Jet Force type packs prove their worth and take over the market. Even the regular compressed air avy packs are a serious pita to fly with. Especially in the US.


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## ETM (Aug 11, 2009)

killclimbz said:


> ABS has set up a program with most of their vendors where you basically just bring the bag and rent the canister while you are there. Based on the traveler of course. If you are longer term, not sure if that is a solution or not. It is a solid system.
> 
> Hopefully the Jet Force type packs prove their worth and take over the market. Even the regular compressed air avy packs are a serious pita to fly with. Especially in the US.


Yeah, flying is not such an issue for me anymore and like you said if I do fly Ill just rent a canister.
The jet force type battery packs look sweet but its going to be a few years before they are available to peasants like me lol.


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## killclimbz (Aug 10, 2007)

The soonest I'll get to use a JetForce is the 15-16 season myself. 

No worries. When you have it in place, the ABS system is arguably the best out there.


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