# Some secrets to learning snowboarding that I wish I knew when I was a beginner



## backstop13

SnowMotion said:


> 3) You want to always travel toward the nose of your board! Not the toe or heel edge. Meaning if you are on your toe side you should be traversing the hill not sliding downhill. Yes we skid on our edges to slow down or stop but you don't want to do it constantly. If you are traveling toward your nose it reduces your chance to catch an edge.


I just started last year and progressed pretty quickly, but after reading this tip I know I need to work on that. I can link turns and have learned to control my speed decently, but I find my self trying to control my speed too much. I'll stay perpendicular to the mountain and bleed almost all my speed off, and a lot of times, I'm on my heel edge so hard that when my forward momentum stops I'll end up just sitting straight down on my ass. 

Thanks for the tips.


----------



## Donutz

I took a lesson after 2 years of boarding, and although I didn't learn anything monumental from the lesson, I did learn a number of things that I wasn't doing right. I spent quality time correcting those deficiencies and it has made a large difference to my riding.

My advice would be that you take a lesson when you start, and at least one lesson per year for the next couple of years, at the beginning of each season.


----------



## 2hipp4u

> Last thing if anyone teaches you something called "the falling leaf" get your money back.


I would agree with that, I tried it quite a bit and got nothing out of it. What worked for me was getting on a really flat bunny hill and traversing the hill keeping my board almost flat until I wanted to turn then engaging a toe or heel turn. I took up a lot of the hill doing this but it gave me the basic mechanics of turning and now I take up very litte of the hill.

I am still a newb but have progressed quite well with a lesson and plan a few more this coming season.


----------



## dkzach

I say, to learn the art of snowboarding quickly all you have to do is watch a insane amount of snowboard movies. like 3 hours everyday. and boom you know how to snowboard


----------



## HoboMaster

dkzach said:


> I say, to learn the art of snowboarding quickly all you have to do is watch a insane amount of snowboard movies. like 3 hours everyday. and boom you know how to snowboard


Good luck with that, I'd say it's spending countless hours riding in order to create and alter muscle-memory. It's funny how you ride for a season and maybe feel like you didn't progress that much, and then think back to a year ago and you realize that just by riding all the time you do get a lot better.


----------



## ToyStory

Hey,

Am a bit confused when you say travel towards your nose? So when your on toe or heel you should still be going straight down the mountain and not leafing ???


----------



## dreampow

Falling leaf has a place, not in a lesson, but its not always a bad thing. I started doing falling leaf toeside and heelside. 

By lunch on day 1 I was linking turns on green runs without hardly falling. Day 2 I was negotiating blues and some ungroomed blue pistes with 2 feet of powder.

Certainly doing falling leaf for too long is counter productive, but I think it helped me to grasp the feel and balance of being on either edge before linking turns.


----------



## SnowMotion

ToyStory said:


> Hey,
> 
> Am a bit confused when you say travel towards your nose? So when your on toe or heel you should still be going straight down the mountain and not leafing ???


If you are on your toe or heel edge your nose will be pointing across the hill not downhill.You will still be crossing the trail between each turn. Leafing is when you stay on one edge crossing back and forth never letting your nose point down.




dreampow said:


> Falling leaf has a place, not in a lesson, but its not always a bad thing. I started doing falling leaf toeside and heelside.
> 
> By lunch on day 1 I was linking turns on green runs without hardly falling. Day 2 I was negotiating blues and some ungroomed blue pistes with 2 feet of powder.
> 
> Certainly doing falling leaf for too long is counter productive, but I think it helped me to grasp the feel and balance of being on either edge before linking turns.


You are a lucky one to move past the leaf so quickly and not pick up bad habits. Leafing becomes a crutch to many riders.


----------



## SnowMotion

dkzach said:


> I say, to learn the art of snowboarding quickly all you have to do is watch a insane amount of snowboard movies. like 3 hours everyday. and boom you know how to snowboard


I'm A Snowboarder Now - YouTube


----------



## MGD81

SnowMotion said:


> 4)Take lessons (yes i'm a coach and bias but)Its worth it. I was a self taught rider and it took me 6 years to pick up what I can teach someone in a day or two. So it is worth it! Here is a few tips on getting your moneys worth. Ask about the instructors when you sign up. Find out who has been teaching there the longest or who has the most experience with your level riders. When you understand how something is done and how it feels when you are doing it right or wrong. Ask the instructor to move on and you will practice on your own time. They are trained to get you back for more lessons not give you as much info as possible and you practice for free. Last thing if anyone teaches you something called "the falling leaf" get your money back.


Good luck waltzing into a booking office and asking for the background on all of the instructors scheduled for classes that day. You want to choose? that's called a private. 

Most people on here are probably loving your spiel, as they dont konw any better, but i'm not buying it, because:

a)Falling leaf tells me a student can stop, traverse, twist and weight up their front foot - pretty important if you want successful toe turns. Granted I never spend more than one run on it, but it is a useful tool. Writing it off because everyone does it and you want to be different is ignorant. 

b)Instructors aren't robots, ski schools may want you to sell lessons, but I ALWAYS move at the pace of learning, even in class lessons when it becomes more work assigning different tasks. The reality is people are smart, and if they get bored they probably aren't returning anyway. As an instructor, my job satisfaction comes from seeing how far I can take people from where they started at at the beginning of the day. If you are a point/incentive watcher/salesman, then your probably in the wrong business, or you are a ski instructor (jokes). 

c)Most importantly, you don't work for a ski school, so any way you can bash them and self promote your business on here is good for your rep. Most likely, you are an instructor who has been burned by a shitty ski school in the past and decided to start up your own business, which is fair enough, but bashing the majority of us that work in the AASI system and do pretty well with it really isn't going to get you anywhere. In fact, if I were in your position, flirting on the edge of a legal battle with ski schools at the mountains you teach at, I would be doing everything I could to make friends.


----------



## MGD81

Snowolf said:


> Going to chine in here on this point as an 8 year AASI instructor. AASI has in fact dropped the falling leaf from their teaching progression too for the same reasons that Snow Motion speaks about. I totally agree with your point about how and why in a lesson progression the falling leaf can do the things you speak of but what AASI has discovered is those same things can be accomplished with Garlands.
> 
> When two years ago the ski school I worked at told us to stop teaching the falling leaf I was pretty skeptical myself but in the last two years, I have found that I have had a better success rate of getting more people in group lessons linking turns in their first never ever lesson using garlands instead of leafing.
> 
> As for the personal comments about Snowmotion, you do not know their history or personal relationships they have with area mountains so you are merely working off of speculation here not fact....


A garland is a more aggressive falling leaf. To say 1 is obsolete and the other is a great teaching tool makes no sense to me. Its all about the way you teach it. I teach something probably in the middle of the two, not much flat-basing on our sideslip hill as its purposefully steep and our clients tend to be more fragile than most resorts. But the twist/fore/edge control movements are still there. 

And your right, I don't know the details. I do however know that if you try and teach in CO you will get arrested, and I do know that there aren't many GM's of ski resorts that are going to be happy with you taking away their most profitable source of income.


----------



## SnowMotion

MGD81 said:


> A garland is a more aggressive falling leaf. To say 1 is obsolete and the other is a great teaching tool makes no sense to me. Its all about the way you teach it. I teach something probably in the middle of the two, not much flat-basing on our sideslip hill as its purposefully steep and our clients tend to be more fragile than most resorts. But the twist/fore/edge control movements are still there.
> 
> And your right, I don't know the details. I do however know that if you try and teach in CO you will get arrested, and I do know that there aren't many GM's of ski resorts that are going to be happy with you taking away their most profitable source of income.


First off I did not bash instructors so chill out. I myself have been teaching for 15 years many of which were for mountains. I know and am friends with a lot of great instructors. Also I am telling people to take lessons in general. Did I say only take them from us, NO! As far as the mountains themselves we have worked with resorts to make sure we offer a product that they do not. We are coaches we go beyond the services of a mountain school for a different client. The people looking to get some pointers or learn in a more relaxed environment we recommend mountain schools. Our clients are part of a coaching program that is on and off snow, Summer and winter. We have indoor programs and even set up in peoples back yard to train. We have mountains that offer our students discounted prices. They can see the advantage to us bringing people to there Mt and teaching them in one day.


----------



## dreampow

Snowolf said:


> A Garland is not really just an "aggressive falling leaf". It teaches the rider to ride in one direction where the falling leaf is 50% switch which can further confuse students on the whole regular/goofy thing and creates horrible habits if the student takes no further lessons. The Garland also gets the rider used to pointing the nose down the hill and steering it back up the hill instead of keeping the board across the fall line the entire time. Not bashing you here at all so don`t take it that way.


Can you describe this garland concept in more detail please?

I have taught 6 or 7 friends the basics and always used falling leaf because thats how my buddy taught me.

People who have good balance get past it in half a day or less and its all good while some people tend to get stuck in it.

In those cases I can see how its a crutch and stops progress.

If there is a better way it would be good to know.


----------



## Cr0_Reps_Smit

dreampow said:


> Can you describe this garland concept in more detail please?
> 
> I have taught 6 or 7 friends the basics and always used falling leaf because thats how my buddy taught me.
> 
> People who have good balance get past it in half a day or less and its all good while some people tend to get stuck in it.
> 
> In those cases I can see how its a crutch and stops progress.
> 
> If there is a better way it would be good to know.


a garland is basically doing half a turn on one of your edges but before that point of no return you hook back up and continue traversing the same way you started. so youll go across, down, then back across in the same direction and you can do this as many times as you can fit while going across the hill. it's good for those people who seem to have decent balance on their edges but just cant seem to commit to those turns. do a couple garlands on both heel and toe edges then come back to full c turns to see if it helped at all.


----------



## Cr0_Reps_Smit

Snowolf said:


> Cro nailed it...:thumbsup:
> 
> To add to his answer, The Garland turn is generally started from the sideslip position with the board across the fall line. The rider should shift their weight to their front foot and relax the front foot so as to release any uphill edge pressure. This allows the nose of the board to begin to slip downhill and allow the board to begin to move. The rider allows the nose to almost point straight down the fall line then they will use the front foot to pressure their edge and twist the board to steer it back across the fall line. They can either come to a complete stop and repeat or they can learn to slow down and release again.
> 
> This teaches them to torsionally steer the board with the front foot as well as allow them to gain experience at turn initiation without fully committing to making a complete turn. Garlands should be done heelside and toeside. Once the rider is comfortable allowing the board to point straight down the fall line for a couple of seconds before steering back across it, they are ready to make completed linked turns.
> 
> The main reason these are so much better than falling leafing is because this exposes the new rider to being on the board with it pointed down the fall line and steering it back out of this position to slow down and stop. With the falling leaf, most new riders fear letting it point too far down the fall line and this creates a mental block that can be a bitch to overcome especially if the rider is timid or fearful.
> 
> As Snow Motion said, basic snowboarding is ridiculously simple. The biggest obstacle to learning to link turns is simple fear and hesitation. The Garland turn gets the new rider to face their fears and overcome them quickly whereas the falling leaf actually enhances their fear of pointing the board down the hill. The Garland also teaches the rider to ride their board directionally instead of the constant switching between regular and goofy. This switching back and forth at this stage of learning to ride is a major inhibitor of progression and the new rider may go for a very long time with no clue as to whether they are regular or goofy.


ha i knew i could count on you to come in with the technical details, i was cutting it close for getting to work and had to keep it short and simple.


----------



## jdang307

I think a year ago someone asked for tips on how to teach a beginner. I didn't chime in (since I'm no guru) but added my 2 cents about the falling leaf and told them, don't teach beginners the falling leaf. I think that's the worst thing to teach beginners.

Some agreed, a lot of people disagreed, but I've seen it too many times. Teach them the falling leaf and that's all they do. I know one guy who is fearless but since that's all he knows how to do he does it aggressively. Bombing blacks falling leaf style. Yes he does point is nose down so maybe it's not a pure FL but he'll point it then when he gets to fast slows down heel side goofy and regular. He's fast but it's pretty stupid looking.

I try and teach them how to ride toe side (I didn't teach them the leaf) but they refuse. Because they were going fast comfortably. Now they have to slow down and learn this thing that will cause them to fall and be nervous? So they went almost two seasons without learning to ride properly. At the tail end of season 2 they finally got it.

My wife (GF at the time) took me to Sierra at Tahoe and Keystone for my first two trips. She taught me to put on a snowboard, and to get off the lift. That's it. NO leaf nothing. So I never knew to rely on it. A lesson would have sped things up I know I know. But I'm stubborn like that. And my form probably still isn't great but I'm learning. Point being, I'm 100% happy I did not learn falling leaf. Plus that shit is tiring on your legs.


----------



## dkzach

Falling leaf only teaches you to fear going fast. I learned to snowboard that way my first lesson but quickly was like wtf am I doing so I set goals to go faster and faster " mainly to beat my friends at races" but eventually carving just came naturally. The best way to teach someone for real is just throw them straight into carving and not giving them the option to only ride heel side. 

My brother rides like that and it pisses me off so much... And it also make him not want to snowboard because he is petrified of going on his toe side and is slower than everyone else. He is 11 and has boarded since he was 7 but does the same stupid heel side rotation between regular and goofy. And you guys are right he can't deside if he is regular or goofy Iv seen him skate board regular one day and goofy the next " he's not very good" anyone have any tips on teaching him to carve he is a really stobern kid... I feel at times there's no hope for him.... 

And we tryed putting him in private lessons but now he feels exculed from the fam and refuses to have lessons. And when we try teaching him he just gets really frustrated.


----------



## pencap75

My advice to all beginners.

Learn switch early.


----------



## Efilnikufesin

dreampow said:


> Falling leaf has a place, not in a lesson, but its not always a bad thing. I started doing falling leaf toeside and heelside.
> 
> By lunch on day 1 I was linking turns on green runs without hardly falling. Day 2 I was negotiating blues and some ungroomed blue pistes with 2 feet of powder.
> 
> Certainly doing falling leaf for too long is counter productive, but I think it helped me to grasp the feel and balance of being on either edge before linking turns.


 I would agree on this, falling leaf does a great deal to help your motivation, but not if you are unwilling to commit to the turn. 

Part of what I found out about in teaching myself to snowboard, is that falling leaf will get you started, but in essence it teaches you to use your back foot more than you should.


Through reading much on this site over the last couple years lurking and eventually posting is that turns are truly done stably and correctly with proper balance from the front foot.

I still have stubborn friends that I started with that doubt it and when stuck in bad situations or steeper terrain than they are used to, they still go back to falling leaf, all in all it's really about the subtle movement of the front foot, and even balance upon the board.

Listen to Snowmotion, seems like he will guide you the right way.

Edit, holy crap, thought this thread was new, but now I see several pages of responses. Snowwolf and Snowmotion don't seem like they would steer you wrong in either case though.

Part of it is about confidence ( picturing yourself doing the act you desire to,) and part of it is your own mechanics and realizing which one is holding you back.


----------



## SnowOwl

Thought I'd chime in with a beginner's view point:

I only started a season ago. When I started, I unfortunately only had my gf to go with and learn from, and she didn't know much at all (still doesn't) First day I was doing the falling leaf technique on accident. I knew immediately that getting used to this would make it harder to link turns so I forced myself to control my direction better into what I think Snowolf has been defining as Garlands? Either way, I noticed I progressed MUUUCH faster once I eliminated it. Needless to say, I progressed "scary fast" as my friend put it, but my gf STILL to this day has a hard time linking her turns and getting out of the falling leaf habit.

Over the summer I've been trying to do online research and such to learn and practice for next season. In the process I found that the "falling leaf technique" was an actual move, not me being some n00b that can't link a turn...and all I could think was how detrimental this would be to actually teach someone. Personally, I think it helps more with getting comfortable transitioning from switch to normal / vice verse, or to slow down on a slope your not comfortable with. They remind me of toe/heel slides when bombing down hills on my longboard, except those require skill to do haha

Edit: Thought I'd also throw in with Snowolf's last point. Learning steeps on the black diamonds, I agree, being able to accept the speed and nose dive to initiate the turn is essential. I kept washing out with leaf like symptoms because I was too scared to gain too much speed (though I also realized I need to detune my edges), but once I was able to accept the speed and nose dive for a second, my game of control was brought up to a whole new level. I, being in my first season, was now bombing and racing my experienced friend down black diamonds.


----------



## Donutz

Possibly one of the scariest images on the mountain is some idjit "bombing" a run in falling-leaf position, and I mean fast, like sprint speed or better. All it takes is for the edge to drop just a bit...


----------



## SnowMotion

Donutz said:


> Possibly one of the scariest images on the mountain is some idjit "bombing" a run in falling-leaf position, and I mean fast, like sprint speed or better. All it takes is for the edge to drop just a bit...


We call this the turbo leaf!:laugh:


----------



## Solitaire

dkzach said:


> Falling leaf only teaches you to fear going fast. I learned to snowboard that way my first lesson but quickly was like wtf am I doing so I set goals to go faster and faster " mainly to beat my friends at races" but eventually carving just came naturally. The best way to teach someone for real is just throw them straight into carving and not giving them the option to only ride heel side.
> 
> My brother rides like that and it pisses me off so much... And it also make him not want to snowboard because he is petrified of going on his toe side and is slower than everyone else. He is 11 and has boarded since he was 7 but does the same stupid heel side rotation between regular and goofy. And you guys are right he can't deside if he is regular or goofy Iv seen him skate board regular one day and goofy the next " he's not very good" anyone have any tips on teaching him to carve he is a really stobern kid... I feel at times there's no hope for him....
> 
> And we tryed putting him in private lessons but now he feels exculed from the fam and refuses to have lessons. And when we try teaching him he just gets really frustrated.


This is kinda crazy. Last season a new rider joined my snowboarding group, and since all of us had been taught the falling leaf as our first lesson, that's what we started him off doing as well. He only boarded with us for 2 days, but by the end of the second day he still couldn't decide which way he wanted to ride down the hill, and kinda got stuck on his heelside. 

I figured he would just get better over time - kinda surprised that it might be partially attributed to how he started off.


----------



## LuckyRVA

Donutz said:


> Possibly one of the scariest images on the mountain is some idjit "bombing" a run in falling-leaf position, and I mean fast, like sprint speed or better. All it takes is for the edge to drop just a bit...


I did exactly this my first season riding. That was until I caught my toe side edge "leafing" on my heelside edge at speed. I performed the scorpion all scorpions look up to. My heelside edge actually touched the back of my helmet. Wish I had video of it.


----------



## skip11

I don't know, according to CASI, you need to teach the falling leaf. I guess my take is that you teach them that, but don't let them stay leafing for long. Work up to learning toeside and heelside turns as soon as possible. Sometimes with unathletic people, falling leaf can teach them how to be balanced on a board, while also allowing them to learn how to stop and change direction easily.


----------



## cm4short

I'm new to boarding. Went for my first time in Dec '11 and several times afterwards. I've never taken a class but, but instead learned from my novice and intermediate friends. This was my first and only leasson given. 

This technique worked to slowly get me down the hill initially (wiith multiple falls of course). But, it wasn't until some random person on the lift gave me a the most valuable lesson about how you control your with your edges and not by leaning(as i thought because I've skate boarded before). 

I soon found myself having ALOT more fun gaining higher speeds and betterturns and control. By the end of the day, me and my intermediate friend were racing down the mountain... While was laughing at my novice but more experienced friend because he was still riding toeside down the hill. 

I was a natural ride with a desire to be agressive and take chances. My other firends weren't so, they never even risked pointing ther boards downhill. 

I say all this to say, This tequnique was valuable. But from my experience, it seems its all up to a persons own desire and ability to progress and advance themselves.


----------



## SnowOwl

cm4short said:


> I'm new to boarding. Went for my first time in Dec '11 and several times afterwards. I've never taken a class but, but instead learned from my novice and intermediate friends. This was my first and only leasson given.
> 
> This technique worked to slowly get me down the hill initially (wiith multiple falls of course). But, it wasn't until some random person on the lift gave me a the most valuable lesson about how you control your with your edges and not by leaning(as i thought because I've skate boarded before).
> 
> I soon found myself having ALOT more fun gaining higher speeds and betterturns and control. By the end of the day, me and my intermediate friend were racing down the mountain... While was laughing at my novice but more experienced friend because he was still riding toeside down the hill.
> 
> I was a natural ride with a desire to be agressive and take chances. My other firends weren't so, they never even risked pointing ther boards downhill.
> 
> I say all this to say, This tequnique was valuable. But from my experience, it seems its all up to a persons own desire and ability to progress and advance themselves.


Meh, personally sounds like you have more natural ability than what was learned. Kinda how it was for me since I love to bomb hills on longboards.


----------



## cm4short

tylerkat89 said:


> Meh, personally sounds like you have more natural ability than what was learned. Kinda how it was for me since I love to bomb hills on longboards.


I haven't had the courage to bomb hills yet. My current board gets shaky at high speeds from what I noticed. But, I'm looking forward to trying once I upgrade tho.


----------



## Donutz

cm4short said:


> I haven't had the courage to bomb hills yet. My current board gets shaky at high speeds from what I noticed. But, I'm looking forward to trying once I upgrade tho.


Ooooooooh yeah! I went from a junker to a Heritage, and wow did it make a difference with the chattering! This is one of those places where your hardware DOES affect your riding.


----------



## wrathfuldeity

R-tard, here...have never taken a lesson...But please take a frickin lesson. 

Some random folk gave me 3 concepts that immediately and substantially helped. They are really about position or postural form.

First, keep all your body parts inside the cereal box...the board is the bottom of the box.

Second, get your pelvis tilted forward...kind of like humping...by squeezing your butt cheeks, tighten your abs and sink abit in your knees. This basically gets your body parts stacked inside the box.

Third, use you leading knee to steer....torsional steering. Bend your knee and point it to the center of the toeside turn and for heelside swing your knee forward toward the nose...thereby pressuring the front heelside edge.


----------



## Shred&Butter

I have to say the best thing I ever did was take a lesson after self teaching myself. I had a great French instructor who only let us bind our front foot. This not only taught me the movement limits I had with the board but also showed me just how subtle you need to be. Plus after riding with 1 foot out with no stomp pad not only is your confidence huge when you eventually bind up fully but you also have loads of control and understanding about the physics of the board.

Oh and it also taught me how to avoid ploughing into the groups of skiers who inevitably stop right at the bottom of the slope at the end of a ski lift! When you can comfortably ride, turn and stop with 1 foot out it gets you away from some potentially sticky situations and you can usually glide to the top of the run and strap in without stopping :thumbsup:


----------



## XR4Ti

wrathfuldeity said:


> First, keep all your body parts inside the cereal box...the board is the bottom of the box.


I've heard that a couple of times but I don't get that. I don't see how you can carve & bend your knees w/o shoving out your butt on heelside or putting knees over the edge when toeside. I see a few stickmen stiff as a board on the slope and I guess they fit inside the cereal box, but I just don't get it.

As for what really helped me out when learning was to transition onto the opposing edge before initiating the turn. Until I figured that out, turns were scary and I was going way too slow & not having fun, especially on the icy groomed runs of the East.


----------



## TheMan

The line "You want to always travel toward the nose of your board! Not the toe or heel edge" is wrong and misleading for beginners. snowboarding is a 360 degree activity. My board is usually traveling toward another direction other than the "nose".


----------



## SnowMotion

TheMan said:


> The line "You want to always travel toward the nose of your board! Not the toe or heel edge" is wrong and misleading for beginners. snowboarding is a 360 degree activity. My board is usually traveling toward another direction other than the "nose".


If you are traveling toward an edge you are not riding. You are either stopping or slowing down. True carving is always toward your nose (or tail in the case of switch).

I believe having a new rider skid some turns and call it riding is misleading!
:cheeky4:


----------



## Gustov

TheMan said:


> The line "You want to always travel toward the nose of your board! Not the toe or heel edge" is wrong and misleading for beginners. snowboarding is a 360 degree activity. My board is usually traveling toward another direction other than the "nose".


you don't have to be 100% in the direction of your nose, a skidded turn you're not completely riding on your edge. but you don't want to really just be side slipping with your nose a little further down the hill than your tail.


----------



## shtef

Ive always started absolute beginners by standing em on a flat surface. Push em along abit just so they can feel what its like. Then i move em into turns on a gentle slope by looking and pointing around the turn until they stop (Facing slightly uphill). Then doing the oppisite turn. Then stopping. I usually have them linking turns confidently in a couple of hours.


----------



## MGD81

shtef said:


> Ive always started absolute beginners by standing em on a flat surface. Push em along abit just so they can feel what its like. Then i move em into turns on a gentle slope by looking and pointing around the turn until they stop (Facing slightly uphill). Then doing the oppisite turn. Then stopping. I usually have them linking turns confidently in a couple of hours.


And then they get stuck on greens for the rest of the season because you taught them to turn using their upper body, right?


----------



## biocmp

Since we are on this subject, does anyone have good instructor recommendations in Colorado? I purchased the Epic local pass and I'll be at Breck and A-basin quite a bit (will hit Keystone and Vail as well). 

I've never taken a lesson. Snowboarded 12 years ago, 3-5 times then didn't do it again until this past year. This past year, I rode about 6-7 times.

I'm ready to have a real lesson, I really want to progress this year. Any suggestions?


----------



## Cr0_Reps_Smit

biocmp said:


> Since we are on this subject, does anyone have good instructor recommendations in Colorado? I purchased the Epic local pass and I'll be at Breck and A-basin quite a bit (will hit Keystone and Vail as well).
> 
> I've never taken a lesson. Snowboarded 12 years ago, 3-5 times then didn't do it again until this past year. This past year, I rode about 6-7 times.
> 
> I'm ready to have a real lesson, I really want to progress this year. Any suggestions?


shoot me a PM when you head out there, theres a possibility i may be living in breck this winter.


----------



## aubzobot

Solid tips. Didn't take a lesson 'till my second year. Basically all i learned was everything I was doing wrong(almost everything)


----------



## Slush Puppie

Snowolf said:


> One of the most diffcult concepts for newer riders to accept is that the steeper the terrain the more forward you need to be to initiate the turn. It is the last thing a person wants to do on an intimidating steep pitch but the must learn to trust this movement as it is the only way to get the board to make the turn in time to not loose control.
> 
> Then, once they finally get this concept, it becomes horribly difficult to get them to shift way aft for turn completion. You cannot ride steep terrain in a static stance; you must get as dynamic as you have the physical ability to do.


I found this quite interesting as it relates to my own experience. 

My first time on snow started with a private lesson that apart from an initial practice learning how the board turns on a flatish beginner slope, started straight on a blue run. I had no previous understanding of how to snowboard.

We did cover falling leaf with the emphasis being very much on edge control, getting a feel for peddling (BASI) and board control. By the very end of the lesson I had linked turns but not with much confidence.

After the lesson (having already done the run twice I went straight back up and did it on my own. 2 hours after first strapping into a board and was doing a blue run on my own, I was so stoked (that was my goal for the week not the first day!) _But_ I pretty much did just did the whole thing falling leaf (went back to my comfort zone). What I remember noticing at the time was that i really started to get a feel for the edges during this run. I took a lot of confidence from being able to control the board well and stop safely. I feel like it was actually a very positive experience and by most peoples standards I've progressed quite fast after that. I've always credited spending that extra time doing falling leaf as a contributing factor in how quickly I progressed.

*But* one issue I had at the start (and still occasionally have a tendency to do) was get in the back seat during turns (especially turning to healside). Not to the point where I'd fall but enough to pick up speed get out of shape and reinforce my fear of leaning forward down the hill. Overcoming that was pretty much the single most challenging aspect of learning as I recall. So I would say my experience reinforces what you say.

Since then I have done a falling leaf a couple of times when helping a novice. But at the same time I made it an exercise for myself by seeing how smooth and controlled I could make the pattern. I'm not sure if there is any real value in doing this but I did find it quite satisfying to be able to do it as smoothly as my instructor had demonstrated on my first day which I suspect is just the perfectionist coming out in me


----------



## Slush Puppie

Yeah makes perfect sense, I can totally see the advantages to skipping it.

I've also used falling leaf again when iv'e felt out of my depth. Steep chute opening out into more rolling terrain, with no way around. Wet heavy snow (2-3 feet fresh overnight) but melting fast in the spring sun. Tracked and lumpy by late morning. Dunno if it was 45deg but certainly getting on for it if not. Not impossible (like that ice sounds) but about the steepest I'd been on and fairly tough even sideslipping.

Did feel a little like a cop out afterward but I was starting to see some worrying signs with the snowpack and did not want to f*ck about. Anyway did it's job and got me though the first 50 meters until it opened out a little and could find a cleanish line. The ride out was sure fun


----------

