# Looking for sum *NOT* Cartel bindings.



## mazur (Jan 15, 2016)

Two things I don't understand based on your post. 

Why would you need heel cup adjustability when you can get what you need from adjusting out the "throttle"? So you get your boots evened out that way in your bindings and then you just mount your bindings on the board so you get equal overhang. I'm sure you can orient the center disc in such a way that you can locate the bindings properly.


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## zc1 (Feb 20, 2017)

Adjustable heel cup allows you to use that to center your foot over the board (heel-toe axis) while you use the disc to further adjust the stance width (tip-tail movement of the bindings).


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## Phedder (Sep 13, 2014)

mazur said:


> Two things I don't understand based on your post.
> 
> Why would you need heel cup adjustability when you can get what you need from adjusting out the "throttle"? So you get your boots evened out that way in your bindings and then you just mount your bindings on the board so you get equal overhang. *I'm sure you can orient the center disc in such a way that you can locate the bindings properly*.


That's the problem, he can't. Even pushed all the way forward. The mediums he should be able to get close, larges no chance. 

I'd look at something like the Union Force/Atlas or Nitro Team, maybe even a Flow Fuse? I'm sure there's others you can adjust the the heelcup on but I'm not too familiar.


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## zc1 (Feb 20, 2017)

If you want to have all the adjustability possible, go with Rome -- Katana sounds like it would fit the bill; Targa is beefier. Adjustable ankle strap to dial in the response that you want, rotating highback if that's your thing, highback can be canted, two footbeds (one flat, one canted), adjustable heelcup. Lifetime warranty.

Union Atlas or Force would work, too.


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## ekb18c (Mar 11, 2013)

Not sure if you have tried Union bindings yet but I would suggest to try a pair of Union Atlas or Force. You will notice some differences after a few turns. 

The Katanas will feel similar to the cartels but with more adjustments.


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## kriegs13 (Nov 28, 2016)

mazur said:


> I'm sure you can orient the center disc in such a way that you can locate the bindings properly.


Burton bindings (at least re:flex, not sure about older discs) aren't the best for disc orientation. you've got three options toe to heel and wherever your inserts are for nose to tail.

I'm a bit more confused why a size 10 (or even 10.5) boot is having any trouble centering with a medium burton cartel. I feel like thats kinda the sweet spot. is the Arbor really narrow or something?


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

Yeah size US10 is a PITA without heelcup adjust. But M should fit.

Two bindigs I've been meaning to get but for some reason never do.... Rome Katana and Union Atlas. Probably size M/L.

Also Ride Capo. A bit more response than Cartel, but still in the same league. Size L.


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## Toby (Mar 8, 2017)

Been hearing good things about the Arbor Cypress, may be a good match.


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## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

Easy.

Bent Metal Transfer, Arbor Cypress, Ride Rodeo, Nitro Team, Rome Katana or Vice, Union Atlas.


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## chomps1211 (Mar 30, 2011)

kriegs13 said:


> ....I'm a bit more confused why a size 10 (or even 10.5) boot is having any trouble centering with a medium burton cartel. I feel like thats kinda the sweet spot. is the Arbor really narrow or something?


Actually,.. the Arbor's a wide. 26-something cm waist iir. Right now I've got the L Cartels on it. My M are on my Proto CT. I believe my third pair of Cartels are a M reflex with L GenesisX straps I purchased to replace the oem asym straps and they're on my Jones Explorer. 

The heel to toe ratio on that board is _better_. But it's still heavier on heel overhang. 

Plus,... regardless of of whether the boots are a size 10.5 or 10. As I understand it,.. The boots footprint size has less to do with how well/effectively you can leverage the toeside edge as where your _bare foot_,.. actual toe position falls relative to the edge while inside the boot. That's where you want to base your adjustments for proper, maximum leverage toeside. :dunno:

Unfortunately, due to some foot problems,... I can't size down quite as far as I actually should. (Far Too painful). Sorry @Wiredsport. Lol. So my actual, barefoot toe position, in ANY binding is even further back from the toe edge of the boot/board. 

Here is an image I took today on the lift. As you can plainly see, in the L binding, even my boots toe doesn't overlap that front edge. 










I've riden like this for sooo long. And for 5 years I did it in soft as fuck boots. (...they got stiffer when I paired them with the Remind liners.) At least now the Binary Boas are a lot stiffer & responsive. They compensate some for the lack of proper positioning. :shrug:


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## Phedder (Sep 13, 2014)

Chomps, definitely worth trying the Mediums on it and pushing them more toeside. I'd guess you could get the mediums a full centimeter closer to the toe edge at least, which in the snowboard leverage world should be quite a noticeable difference.


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## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

Yea Chomps, get off your ass and on your toes... be a ballerina ... pirouettes ... twinkle toes :hairy:


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## chomps1211 (Mar 30, 2011)

wrathfuldeity said:


> Yea Chomps, get off your ass and on your toes... be a ballerina ... pirouettes ... twinkle toes :hairy:


:lol::lol::lol:
D'_zis_ look like "Twinkle Toes" to you? 








:blink: :barf: :laugh:

That L foot is a gnarly monster innit? :barf:


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## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

Angle grinder


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## robotfood99 (Mar 19, 2016)

Union Atlas has canted footbed so would benefit your wide stance.


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## SkullAndXbones (Feb 24, 2014)

rome targas are awesome bindings.


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## ekb18c (Mar 11, 2013)

You ride with those toe nails? No way...


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## chomps1211 (Mar 30, 2011)

wrathfuldeity said:


> Angle grinder





ekb18c said:


> You ride with those toe nails? No way...


Yeah, yeah,... :embarrased1: 
But When I keep 'em real short they tend to get ingrown. (...supposed to work the other way round but... :dunno
Now _THAT_ fraakin hurts. 




-edit-
....now that I think about it, I _do _have a Dremel tool I could use to grind them suckers down with. (...course, I'd need safety glasses for the sparks tho!) :laugh:


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## mazur (Jan 15, 2016)

Phedder said:


> That's the problem, he can't. Even pushed all the way forward. The mediums he should be able to get close, larges no chance.
> 
> I'd look at something like the Union Force/Atlas or Nitro Team, maybe even a Flow Fuse? I'm sure there's others you can adjust the the heelcup on but I'm not too familiar.


Wow, so my shitty Ride LX bindings have more adjustability than the mighty Cartel? Seems strange to me.


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## zc1 (Feb 20, 2017)

There's also something to be said for fewer moving/connected parts, though. Every design compromises on something in favour of something else.


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## timmytard (Mar 19, 2009)

Yeah, haha that's a full extra size boot, with those talons.:surprise:

If my big toe nail is 1mm longer than it should be?
I gotta stop, go back into the lodge and cut them shorter.
Like right then.
If not they'll turns my toes purple.

With throbbing toes, & I won't be able to ride for a couple weeks.:crying:



I like RIDE's older bindings better.
They've changed discs.
The new mini disc doesn't allow you to use the discs to slide the whole binding forward.

The older &/or lower end?
bindings have two big slots that you can slide them Toeside a lot.

As well as an adjustable heel cup.


TT


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## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

Chomps....should we start a "go fund me" for a pedi


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## chomps1211 (Mar 30, 2011)

Ok,... The claws have been ground down and the brand new Katanas (2017's on sale!) I opted for just arrived in time fer Christmas.  :jumping1:

Conditions have warmed up here recently and I have to work tonight & tomorrow so Im not sure if I will get a chance to ride these at all this weekend. I hope to tho. 

I will let you know how it goes if these solve any/all of my boot centering issues.


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## freshy (Nov 18, 2009)

chomps1211 said:


> :lol::lol::lol:
> D'_zis_ look like "Twinkle Toes" to you?
> 
> 
> ...


Uh oh, I think we know what Wireds doing with that pic. :barf2:


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## chomps1211 (Mar 30, 2011)

Whelp,... the Katanas had _more_ than enough adjustability to get my toes out over the toe edge of my Arbor. 









Amazing how different it felt when getting that toe edge engaged. :blink:


Can't help wunderin' how different my Proto or Jones might ride if I get my boots/feet properly centered up on da board? :blink: :shrug:


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