# Wide Boards, Booting out, Size 11-12



## neachdainn (Dec 8, 2012)

ZeMax said:


> Lurking around I've seen a few thread where people were asking if they should go wide or not (around 26cm waist for the wide in question). Alot of answers that were given is that at size 11 and even at 12 for boots a 26cm waist board would be too wide and normal would work just fine.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Bindings not centered properly? Both bindings or just 1? If it's just 1, maybe it's just happening in the lift lines? Damn skiers...

As for centering, you should be able to be strapped in and do squats while keeping the board flat... No heel or toe edge lift.


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## ZeMax (Feb 21, 2014)

Binding setup is A-one. It is boot out, I litteraly feel it and see it in the snow. Only on the back foot. at 24 the front one was ok.

Getting front foot down to 18 this year to try it out.

Still how can people not grind their boot off with a regular deck ? The conversations I've seen were referring to binding angles like 12/12.


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## neachdainn (Dec 8, 2012)

Weird. I run 15/-15 with size 13s on a regular width board and rarely have issues. 

You euro carving? [emoji51]


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## ZeMax (Feb 21, 2014)

Haha I wish I could Euro on softboots. Can't do it on my Hardboot setup yet without tripoding. Beside I like the Pureboarding way better.

But yeah doing carved turns and that's what causing it. Just trying to understand how these guys are making it work for them with such skinny boards. Part of that understanding will help me later on for futur board selection.


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## Mig Fullbag (Apr 15, 2014)

ZeMax said:


> But yeah doing carved turns and that's what causing it. Just trying to understand how these guys are making it work for them with such skinny boards. Part of that understanding will help me later on for futur board selection.


I don't think there is anything to understand ZeMax. There is no magic to it, it's just geometry. I get the feeling most people on here recommanding "regular" width boards to riders with boots over 11.5 don't really carve there turns or at least complete there carves. Even more so with angles under 18°. They certainly don't lean their boards over enough to do so. I use 10.5 Driver X on boards from 26 to 26.5 depending on conditions and terrain, and I won't go narrower to carve on groomers for sure.


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## cav0011 (Jan 4, 2009)

Agreed, ZeMax. Its just a math equation between the slope angle and your board angle. 

I rode a 254 WW board. I could 100% ride it, however it was horrible to ride and I could easily boot out on it whenever I tried to ride it like my wide boards.

People who say you cant control a wide board are people i dont understand. However too each their own.


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

Hi Zemax,

Stoked for your question bro.

Waist width is not actually a useful measurement for determining the correct board as nothing relevant goes on at the waist. Only the width at the inserts (that you will use) matters for this purpose. Boot size is also not relevant here for a number of reasons. Foot size is really important however.

Stoked that you gave your angles, Please also let us know your stance width and your foot size.

Please measure your foot using this method:

Kick your heel (barefoot please, no socks) back against a wall. Mark the floor exactly at the tip of your toe (the one that sticks out furthest - which toe this is will vary by rider). Measure from the mark on the floor to the wall. That is your foot length and is the only measurement that you will want to use. Measure in centimeters if possible, but if not, take inches and multiply by 2.54 (example: an 11.25 inch foot x 2.54 = 28.57 centimeters).


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## ZeMax (Feb 21, 2014)

Mig Fullbag, Cav guess you guys are right. Was just wondering if there was a trick to it I didn't get. Maybe we have a carve heavy culture at our mountain. I blame the snowboard supervisor. He can outcarve me using his Jones Twin while I'm on my Coiler hehe. Guess he got us corrupted as well.

WiredSport: I'm a hardbooter at Heart measuring our feet is what we do 

I'm a mondo 28.7 on my longest feet. So I usually downsize to 28.5 for shells. 
Everyday shoes are US 12. 11.5 was as tight as I could go. First season sucked pretty bad. Now they are quite comfy.

Stance width, hmm I do not have my board with me but I ride centered  
2nd or 3rd set of hole from the middle of the board. Fwd and aft equal distance.


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## Glidinhigh (Nov 26, 2014)

Yeah....having this same issue. Have had some good advise from members of this forum but the guys at the board shop are telling me otherwise. I am 28.8 and bought a NS Snowtrooper in wide. Guys at shop say absolutely wide while some here believe wide is unnecessary. Don't really know what to think. Have never rode anything other than a wide board so guess I am sticking with it.


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

Hi guys,

So at 28.7 and 28.8 (last two posters) those measurements would indicate just under a size 11 snowboard boot (29 cm will be printed on all size 11 snowboard boots, 28.5 will be printed on all 10.5 snowboard boots). 

That is simply for reference, boot size is not relevant to board width sizing only the actual foot measurement is a factor. 

Wide is certainly not necessary in these instances and will only take you in the wrong direction performance wise. 

Zemax, kindly post up a few pics of your setup. Especially the 8 degree rear binding with the boot tightly strapped in. Lets see if we can get a view of your centering. Something odd is going on with that boot/binding. Lets see if we can correct it.


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## ZeMax (Feb 21, 2014)

Alright I'll try and grab photos next week-end.

Let's talk about that size conversion chart for a sec. It says mondo 28.5 is 10.5. What planet are they living on ? hehehe Maybe they're more then one of those ?

I like Wired Math trick better: 28.5 / 2.54= 11.22 wich makes more sense and further proves that Wiredsport rocks :hairy:

And while we are waiting for photos I always tought that Sean's way made alot of sense and maybe I'm angulation more then most people on a regular basis hence why I need a wide over 26 not to grind everything.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZtsIM88T6A0&list=UUtKuowFSQEM9objOggc4Pyw


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

Hi Zemax,

Yes, the various conversions will produce greatly different sizes for any given mondopoint size. That is why Mondo itself is so valuable (with no conversion). By definition it is the foot measurement that a piece of footwear was designed to fit. In a snowboard boot Mondo 28.5 will always be a 10.5 US size, but that will be much different in shoe sizes depending on the conversion that is used. Have a look at this post: 

http://www.snowboardingforum.com/boards/155458-288cm-2.html#post1965866


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## deagol (Mar 26, 2014)

a little bit off topic, but I have had binding tow strap drag issues on the back foot in the past since that strap comes from the right (back) side of the binding (regular-foot stance, not goofy). The strap is at the wrong angle (points forward) and therefore drags in the snow on a hard toeside so it gets bent backwards. This isn't an issue on the front foot since it comes in at the right angle and the direction of travel would not tweak it back harshly like with the back foot. On the back foot toe strap, I had to cut it short to avoid this dragging.. simple solution. 

hope this helps, but it obviously won't solve a toe drag issue with the boot itself. rotating the binding to a steeper angle can obviously decrease toe overhang.


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

ZeMax said:


> I like Wired Math trick better: 28.5 / 2.54= 11.22 wich makes more sense and further proves that Wiredsport rocks :hairy:


Hi Again,

Please note that the the equation above only coverts your cm shoe size to inches. The 11.22 is not a shoe size or a boot size. There are 2.54 cm in one inch. Therefore the above foot is:

28.5 cm / 11.22 inches.
The mondopoint size is 285
The USA size that will be printed in all snowboard boots that are 285 is 10.5.
The Brannock device shoe size for a 285 mm foot is 11.5 USA
The Chart on Zappos (and similar sites) has 28.5 at 12 USA.

Confused yet? 

The huge variations in standards and conversions is the main reason why using "shoe size" to determine board width is not valuable. It needs to be a straight measurement to measurement comparison to be in any way accurate.


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## Glidinhigh (Nov 26, 2014)

All very interesting. At what point does one actually need a wide board? 29.0? 29.3? 29.6? 30.0? Really people with feet over 28 are actually few and far between yet wide boards seem to be the norm for these people. Do you feel that shops are selling wide boards un-necessarily or do you think they are just ignorant in board sizing? I bought my board from Salty Peaks and just so happens I booked a trip to SnowBird so If the wide board I ordered is unresponsive then maybe I will try a regular size. However the guy at Salty Peaks was adamant that a wide board is what I need. All confusing to me. I am 6'4" 225# size 13 normal everyday boot. How I could ride a normal board is puzzling. Basically if I can then anyone can making wide boards really obsolete unless you are Shaq. Really interesting discussion though.


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## taco tuesday (Jul 26, 2014)

I have 11.5 Burton Driver X's and both my current and last board have 250mm waist widths. I do have some abrasion on the back toe strap of my old bindings but it is pretty minor. I have never really felt like i was getting any noticable toe drag while riding(obviously there has been some). I tried a 266cm waist width board a few years back with a similar shape, it felt very big and sluggish edge to edge to me. I don't spend my time carving with my chest on the ground but I view myself as a competent rider and don't have issues riding aggressively.


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## taco tuesday (Jul 26, 2014)

Here are a couple of pictures. The second on has the board proper up and a large speed square at 45 degrees. Plenty more room before the toe drags.


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## ITBVolks (Nov 2, 2014)

Waist width alone means very little.

What your looking for in the width at the insert pack relative to the sidecut radius. This gives you the working area to setup a board.

What is important is to understand the relationship between stance width, binding angle, and the width at the insert pack vs the lean angle in relation to slope angle. As stated - it's all in the math.


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## ZeMax (Feb 21, 2014)

taco tuesday said:


> I have 11.5 Burton Driver X's and both my current and last board have 250mm waist widths. I do have some abrasion on the back toe strap of my old bindings but it is pretty minor. I have never really felt like i was getting any noticable toe drag while riding(obviously there has been some). I tried a 266cm waist width board a few years back with a similar shape, it felt very big and sluggish edge to edge to me. I don't spend my time carving with my chest on the ground but I view myself as a competent rider and don't have issues riding aggressively.


The way I see it it's not because you can carve the shit of a board that you have achieved snowboarding Nirvana. It's just you spent time learning that technic. Now some people learn fast and get good at something over 1 afternoon. These people are lucky. I suck at everything else snowboard related 

I'm intermediate at best, advanced with the "proper" footwear


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## SkullAndXbones (Feb 24, 2014)

i don't see how waist width means nothing. a wider waist means the board will be wider at the inserts. i've always ridden a regular board with size 11 boots and have never had a toe or heel drag problem. my current board's waist is 25


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## ZeMax (Feb 21, 2014)

SkullAndXbones said:


> i don't see how waist width means nothing. a wider waist means the board will be wider at the inserts. i've always ridden a regular board with size 11 boots and have never had a toe or heel drag problem. my current board's waist is 25


My Head Holster-I was in the 25s and that's the one I ripped my toe-strap with.
Guess we carve differently.


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## SkullAndXbones (Feb 24, 2014)

well first off, how do you rip a toe strap when it's strapped on top of your boot? even the ones that go over the toe of your boot are still on the top side of the boot. second, maybe you just didn't have your bindings set back far enough? with the bindings i have now i had to turn the dics perpendicular to the screw holes on the board and set my bindings back farther toward the heel edge because when the holes were parallel the toes of my boots hung way too far off.


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## ZeMax (Feb 21, 2014)

Binding backoff to get minimal over hang, toe strap, Layed down turns will make it rub against the snow if you angulate enough with a not wide enought board.


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## SkullAndXbones (Feb 24, 2014)

oh, i was having a hard time picturing that in my head. you must really lay into those carves huh? lol.


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## ZeMax (Feb 21, 2014)

I have to pick which slope I do it but yeah.
You can take the hardbooter boots away but the corduroy's calling is a strong one.


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

Glidinhigh said:


> All very interesting. At what point does one actually need a wide board? 29.0? 29.3? 29.6? 30.0? Really people with feet over 28 are actually few and far between yet wide boards seem to be the norm for these people. Do you feel that shops are selling wide boards un-necessarily or do you think they are just ignorant in board sizing? I bought my board from Salty Peaks and just so happens I booked a trip to SnowBird so If the wide board I ordered is unresponsive then maybe I will try a regular size. However the guy at Salty Peaks was adamant that a wide board is what I need. All confusing to me. I am 6'4" 225# size 13 normal everyday boot. How I could ride a normal board is puzzling. Basically if I can then anyone can making wide boards really obsolete unless you are Shaq. Really interesting discussion though.


Hi Glidin,

Stoked! Wheewww, so many things to address in your post. Lets go 1 by one.



> really people with feet over 28 are actually few and far between yet wide boards seem to be the norm for these people.


28 is boot size 10. Our two best selling boot sizes are 11 and 12. 13 is common and 14 is more common than size 8. There are a lot of big dogs out there . Are "wide" boards the norm for these riders? More on that below.



> Do you feel that shops are selling wide boards un-necessarily or do you think they are just ignorant in board sizing?


We strongly suggest that you are getting bad/incomplete information if a width suggestion is made:

1. Referring to "Wide" boards as one entity
2. Comparing "Shoe Size" to "Waist" width.
3. Without requesting stance Width and Stance Angle.



> I am 6'4" 225# size 13 normal everyday boot. How I could ride a normal board is puzzling. Basically if I can then anyone can making wide boards really obsolete unless you are Shaq.


Great question. If you read these threads (there are hundreds) you will find that for riders who wear a specific shoe size (let's use your 13 as an example) when we dig deeper we find out that the foot size that they are putting in those 13's varies greatly. We see everything from size 27.5 (9.5) to size 31.5 (13.5) going in size 13 street shoes. Please look at the charts above again and you will see why. Shoe size is not relevant in snowboard boot sizing or snowboard sizing.



> At what point does one actually need a wide board? 29.0? 29.3? 29.6? 30.0?


As above the term "wide board" has no specific meaning. It varies by manufacturer, model and board size. Only the actual width at the inserts can be used. "Wide" in itself cannot be compared to. Also Stance width and angles are required. A size 10 at zero degrees has the same effective measurement as a size 11.5 at 10 degrees. 

Hope that helps!


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## Glidinhigh (Nov 26, 2014)

Wiredsport said:


> Hi Glidin,
> 
> Stoked! Wheewww, so many things to address in your post. Lets go 1 by one.
> 
> ...



OK.....So a N/S Snow Trooper 160 regular width is 9 7/8" approximately at the inserts. That equates to 25.08 cm. So my 28.8cm at those inserts would leave approximately 3/4" overhang on both sides of the board at 0 degree angle. With angles of 18 and -18 which I am going to probably be trying out then it seems you are absolutely correct. I would indeed not need a wide board. However.......we come back to the issue of weight and board length. At 225#s I would think a board at least 164 is what I need. As you previously stated......Never Summer really doesn't rate their boards by weight but is it really feasible for a fat boy like me to ride a shorter board because of that fact? 

Thanks again for all your knowledge with this issue.


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

Glidinhigh said:


> OK.....So a N/S Snow Trooper 160 regular width is 9 7/8" approximately at the inserts. That equates to 25.08 cm. So my 28.8cm at those inserts would leave approximately 3/4" overhang on both sides of the board at 0 degree angle. With angles of 18 and -18 which I am going to probably be trying out then it seems you are absolutely correct. I would indeed not need a wide board. However.......we come back to the issue of weight and board length. At 225#s I would think a board at least 164 is what I need. As you previously stated......Never Summer really doesn't rate their boards by weight but is it really feasible for a fat boy like me to ride a shorter board because of that fact?
> 
> Thanks again for all your knowledge with this issue.


I think your measurement at the inserts has an error. Also, NS does not have a regular 160. Kindly update.


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## Glidinhigh (Nov 26, 2014)

Wiredsport said:


> I think your measurement at the inserts has an error. Also, NS does not have a regular 160. Kindly update.




Hahaha.....All of that info I got from some wanna be board boy over the phone at the shop. I give up. I have looked all over for width at the inserts on Snowtrooper boards and have been unsuccessful. Please provide link if one exists. Have sent and email to NS since they dont provide a phone number on their site.  Waiting on a response. 

So....if I dont need a wide then I will be returnoing the Snowtrooper X when arriving in SaltLake. I am guessing the board the guy mismeasured was a 162 regular. Obviously 9 7/8" is a bogus measurement as well so hell if I know. Consumed with this damn issue and its resolution before arriving on slope.


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

All boots are different.

My sz US 11 boots are only 0.5cm longer footprint than my friend's US 8.5.
Not all boards have the same sidecut and width at inserts changes a bit from waist width. So there will be no recipe.

We're in the internet shopping era, where people would rather save $25 and order based on numbers or tables or charts.... than actually going to a shop and checking stuff out themselves. Or even worse, try it at the shop then buy online.


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## ZeMax (Feb 21, 2014)

That's the thing, if you can't have a look at the board in person because nobody as one locally we're forced to assume the width of the board based on the waist. Design, taper, sidecuts,etc screws up the variables. 

Hurrah for Demo tents !


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

Glidinhigh said:


> Hahaha.....All of that info I got from some wanna be board boy over the phone at the shop. I give up. I have looked all over for width at the inserts on Snowtrooper boards and have been unsuccessful. Please provide link if one exists. Have sent and email to NS since they dont provide a phone number on their site.  Waiting on a response.
> 
> So....if I dont need a wide then I will be returnoing the Snowtrooper X when arriving in SaltLake. I am guessing the board the guy mismeasured was a 162 regular. Obviously 9 7/8" is a bogus measurement as well so hell if I know. Consumed with this damn issue and its resolution before arriving on slope.


Yes, that info is all incorrect. Please reread this thread. It's all there 

http://www.snowboardingforum.com/boards/155458-288cm.html


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## ZeMax (Feb 21, 2014)

Say wired reading through the other thread you just linked you said: Unneeded width hurts performance.

I can see the board being somewhat slower edge to edge. What other aspect did you have in mind when you said this ?


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

ZeMax said:


> That's the thing, if you can't have a look at the board in person because nobody as one locally we're forced to assume the width of the board based on the waist. Design, taper, sidecuts,etc screws up the variables.
> 
> Hurrah for Demo tents !


Exactly. 
Then when you add personal style and angles there's even more variables. Some guy who carves very deep will want almost no hang at all... someone else may have high angles etc...

With my boots... at US11 i dont look into wide boards. But i am close... so you can't really generalize with US11 (it is pretty much at the boundary). 
Same with bindings... US11 is ussually the cutoff between M/L or L/XL depending on brand... i HAVE to try stuff out before I buy because of that.


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## Glidinhigh (Nov 26, 2014)

Wiredsport said:


> Yes, that info is all incorrect. Please reread this thread. It's all there
> 
> http://www.snowboardingforum.com/boards/155458-288cm.html




You are absolutely right. I apologize for continuing the dumb questions after you have already answered them clearly in the previous thread. Thanks again. I am going to give a 162 regular a shot. If I don't need the wide then I don't want it.


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## highme (Dec 2, 2012)

I don't recall the NS wides being that much wider than their normal width boards. I spent the last 2 seasons on a HeritageX with size 12s (approx 1/2-1” set back, 22.5" wide, 15/-10) and felt the width was perfect.


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

ZeMax said:


> Say wired reading through the other thread you just linked you said: Unneeded width hurts performance.
> 
> I can see the board being somewhat slower edge to edge. What other aspect did you have in mind when you said this ?


Going to a non-optimal width reduces responsiveness as you noted, adds unnecessary weight and in many instances results in riding a lower degree stance angle to regain performance.


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

highme said:


> I don't recall the NS wides being that much wider than their normal width boards. I spent the last 2 seasons on a HeritageX with size 12s (approx 1/2-1” set back, 22.5" wide, 15/-10) and felt the width was perfect.


In this case the width difference is 1 cm. That is a full shoe size. A size 12 snowboard boot is designed for a 30 cm foot. That is 1.2 cm larger than than Glidin's foot. That is a big difference in this cusp range.


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## highme (Dec 2, 2012)

I must have gotten confused with all the numbers being thrown around, thought he was in a 13. 

I've also ridden normal width boards with no issue.


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