# Will try positive angles. Recommendations?



## Seppuccu (Dec 4, 2012)

First day of the season today, ate some shit but feels pretty good overall. I have taken out both my '14 Capita BSOD 162 with +18/-12 angles and my '12 Burton Blunt 159W with +15/-15. The Blunt felt surprisingly good today, the BSOD not as much so. Perhaps I'm just rusty...

I'm thinking I should try positive angles on the BSOD tomorrow, since it's a directional ride anyway. Any good starting point? The general recommendation seems to be +21/+6, but would you recommend something else?

Kthxbye


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## timmytard (Mar 19, 2009)

Anticrobotic said:


> First day of the season today, ate some shit but feels pretty goodoverall. Have taken out both my '14 Capita BSOD 162 with +18/-12 angles and my '12 Burton Blunt 159W with +15/-15. The Blunt felt surprisingly good today, the BSOD not as much so. Perhaps I'm just rusty...
> 
> I'm thinking I should try positive angles on the BSOD tomorrow, since it's a directional ride anyway. Any good starting point? The general recommendation seems to be +21/+6, but would you recommend something else?
> 
> Kthxbye


I'd start at zero just to see how it feels, then adjust after that


TT


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## Hardboober (Apr 12, 2014)

Hello! Long time lurker, first time poster. 

When riding duck, I have a splay of 30 degrees (+18/-12 like yourself). When forward, 15 degrees is what my body prefers (+27/+12).

I wouldn't use 0 on the rear. That gives you power, but past the beginner stage, what you want is finesse. The more positive you go, the more finesse you get. 

One important thing to consider is that when you go from negative to positive on the rear foot whilst _keeping the same stance width_, you actually _increase_ the width between your legs (since they are "attached" over the heels, and the heels are moved further apart). Therefore, I'd recommend decreasing the stance width by one or two inserts. 

Another thing is that when you're bending your knees in the forward stance, you might find that your rear leg will be wanting greater range of motion compared to the front. The neutral position of the rear leg might also be more bent than the front. Therefor, it can be a good idea to increase forward lean on your rear binding by one or two of notches, as well as lacing the rear boot just a little bit looser than the front (alternatively lacing it "down" one set of "holes"). Remember of course to also rotate the highbacks so they're in line with the edge. 

Forward stance is awesome for all-mountain, but requires more tweaking than the duck to work properly. In the beginning, you should mostly be feeling the benefits in your heelside carves. 

Good luck!


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## timmytard (Mar 19, 2009)

Hardboober said:


> Hello! Long time lurker, first time poster.
> 
> When riding duck, I have a splay of 30 degrees (+18/-12 like yourself). When forward, 15 degrees is what my body prefers (+27/+12).
> 
> ...


I'm gonna have to try that again.
Last couple years my stance has pretty much stayed the same.
Yesterday I went to close to zero on my rear foot.

It felt fucked, changed it after one run.

I used to run it a little forward sometimes back in the day depending on what I was ridin'.
Felt fine, but I dont think I ever ran it at zero?


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## Seppuccu (Dec 4, 2012)

Thanks for all the feedback guys; unfortunately I didn't see your replies until afterwards because the mail function got messed up somehow. Anyway, this is what went down:

I started with +21/+6 with a regular stance width for a few runs. It worked, but I felt I could go more extreme so I set it to +27/+6 and rode it like that the rest of the day, and it felt pretty good! completely forgot about rotating the highbacks though... 

Funny thing you mentioned that thing about lacing the rear boot a little looser, because the lacing on my rear boot came undone while I was riding and I noticed it felt quite good like that. 

I'll keep tweaking this, next time I think I'll try going as far as +30/+12 - and I'll remember rotating the highbacks accordingly too...


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## deagol (Mar 26, 2014)

Hardboober said:


> .... The more positive you go, the more finesse you get.
> 
> ...
> Forward stance is awesome for all-mountain, but requires more tweaking than the duck to work properly. .....



QFT !!

Hope you enjoy the progression. 

Also, you will be less likely to scrape down steep runs on your heelside edge (aka "Falling Leaf") with a forward stance, as it is conducive to actually linking turns (not implying that you can't do this duck, but forward stance is less forgiving for that bad habit).


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## vajohn (Jan 12, 2014)

I can't really ride duck anymore without causing pain on my back knee lately for some reason. I have always had my custom x set at about +6+14 or somewhere around there...and can still ride switch and everything that way. I guess I will need my other boards set like that too until I get through surgery on another knee (hopefully after the end of the season).


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## Seppuccu (Dec 4, 2012)

I dreamt about adjusting my highbacks tonight. I see that as a good sign. 



deagol said:


> Also, you will be less likely to scrape down steep runs on your heelside edge (aka "Falling Leaf") with a forward stance, as it is conducive to actually linking turns (not implying that you can't do this duck, but forward stance is less forgiving for that bad habit).


I'm linking turns pretty well even with a duck stance, and I'd say my riding is fairly dynamic for someone who only has 25 days on the hill in total. However I just can't seem to lay a trench no matter how much I hump & dump, lean back or forward, go tall & small, use my knees, push with my toes and heels, and transition my weight forward & back. It feels like I'm doing it, but when I look up the hill everything's been skidded.
:finger1:
It might just be that the BSOD is still a little too much for me to handle; I think I was occasionally able to carve with other boards during classes last season. And this Sunday I was _really_ pushing my limits (and luck) on a borderline red/black run that was badly chopped up, forcing myself to go really low and dynamic to be able to actually ride it and not just barely get from top to bottom. We'll see. I'm getting to it...


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## t21 (Dec 29, 2010)

I'm curious too about going positive. I ride +12/-9 about two seasons now but how is positive angles manuever through moguls/bumps? I know i need to try it out myself but just wondering if anyone here ride bumps on positive angles?


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

t21 said:


> but just wondering if anyone here ride bumps on positive angles?


I do. Actually, my entire pack rides with +/+ angles. Can't tell you if it's better or worse than duck in moguls, as I don't ride duck, can just tell you that it's not a problem .


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## atr3yu (Feb 15, 2012)

You guys got me seriously thinking about trying this. I have been riding like +18/-9, which is ok-ish. I never ride switch and am purely a go forward dodge trees kind of rider, maybe the occasional small straight air etc. Just standing up now at work with both feet forward and bending the knees feels way better than any sort of duck. I guess the worst thing that happens is I walk down the hill for one run...lol


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## deagol (Mar 26, 2014)

t21 said:


> I'm curious too about going positive. I ride +12/-9 about two seasons now but how is positive angles maneuver through moguls/bumps? I know i need to try it out myself but just wondering if anyone here ride bumps on positive angles?


good question. I actually hate moguls now, but used to ride them years ago. Back then, I had the back foot at a pretty flat angle and the front foot very forward (maybe almost 45 degrees?). It actually seemed to work well with that board (a Sims Halfpipe) but things have changed a lot. I now have much stiffer boots and riding moguls tend to crank on them so much that it would break them down, which I don't want. 

I now ride moguls when I come across them, but don't seek them out.


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## TimelessDescent (Oct 26, 2014)

Im riding at +24 +6 right now and it feels really good. I have them set a little wider than shoulder width. Another adjustment I made was backing off the tightness of my ankle straps on my bindings. I have Flux SF's and you can easily tighten them too much. After ratcheting them only to a solid medium snug i can still use subtle ankle flexion for added finesse, which is very helpful in bumps.


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## t21 (Dec 29, 2010)

TimelessDescent said:


> Im riding at +24 +6 right now and it feels really good. I have them set a little wider than shoulder width. Another adjustment I made was backing off the tightness of my ankle straps on my bindings. I have Flux SF's and you can easily tighten them too much. After ratcheting them only to a solid medium snug i can still use subtle ankle flexion for added finesse, which is very helpful in bumps.


That is helpful to know. I will try this out on my longer board and see how it goes, probably go +21/+6. @deagol, i like riding on bumps,though i do not really seek them as much either, they are everywhere except the groomed runs, and thats where you carve and dig some trenches:happy:


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## t21 (Dec 29, 2010)

neni said:


> I do. Actually, my entire pack rides with +/+ angles. Can't tell you if it's better or worse than duck in moguls, as I don't ride duck, can just tell you that it's not a problem .


Thanks neni,appreciate your response. :happy:


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## Lamps (Sep 3, 2011)

I started positive and now ride duck. In multiple lessons it was pointed out to me that positive stance opens your shoulders so you face down the hill. This means you do an alpine carving style turn rather than a normal turn where your shoulders are in line with the board. Not that one is right and one is wrong but they are different turns with different mechanics. 

Positive stance seemed to help me with heelside turns but on toe side you have to lead with your shoulder to do the turn so you really rotate your upper body. 

So I say if you want to ride positive then adopt the carving style turn, when riding duck you would (should?) do the more typical snowboard turn where your upper body tends to stay upright and shoulders in line with the board. 

No offence to positive angle riders, this was my experience; the soft boot instructing I got was based on a certain way of turning that works better with duck or near duck angles. And I'm only an intermediate rider, not an authority.


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

t21 said:


> That is helpful to know. I will try this out on my longer board and see how it goes, probably go +21/+6.


These are abt my current angles . Had +30/+15 many years but slowly reduced them with the aim to swap to duck for a try (it turned out that I'm not patient enough to get used to duck :laugh: 18/0 was still doable, flat but "normally" ridable, but then 18/-3 felt just too akward, I readjusted to 21/9 right after ruddering my way down that run :embarrased1. But the experimenting was still a good thing as I found out that I actually prefer the flatter angle especially on the hind foot in pow :happy:.

They may feel equally akward to you at first. So if you _really_ want to try, give them a chance for more than just a run


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## deagol (Mar 26, 2014)

neni said:


> ... I actually prefer the flatter angle especially on the hind foot in pow ...


me too, I set my spitboard up with flatter angles, especially on the back foot, for this purpose. Front foot is almost the same as my solid boards.


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

deagol said:


> me too, I set my spitboard up with flatter angles, especially on the back foot, for this purpose. Front foot is almost the same as my solid boards.


Yea.. I've been wondering why... I have the impression as if I can choose between open and closed hip/shoulder riding with this flatter hind angle. If cruising or surfing, I keep the hip n shoulder parallel to the edge and use the hips more for turns, if riding more aggressively, I'm back to the forward mode. Sort of seems less tiring on the hind knee and front thigh.


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## t21 (Dec 29, 2010)

neni said:


> These are abt my current angles
> They may feel equally akward to you at first. So if you _really_ want to try, give them a chance for more than just a run


I'd probably ride this angle for half a day and see how it goes


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

neni said:


> but then 18/-3 felt just too akward, I readjusted to 21/9 right after ruddering my way


K, gonna have to take this back. Cos the guys were tired after the hike, I went back to my switch project, fetched the Farah and set the angles to 15/-9. Hopped on the board and... just rode as if it's nothing. They felt comfy from the first second, charging, slay moguls, even carve... no prob. Dunno why I struggled last year on that demo board :facepalm3:


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## vajohn (Jan 12, 2014)

The only thing I like about duck is it is easier for me to do presses on my my 'ballerina' board. It hurts my back knee lately and I don't feel as comfortable when I'm hauling ass. No more duck for me until I get another surgery. Pressing my new raygun with forward stance feels much better than on my old ballerina board. Been riding primarily forward stance for around 25 years and I like it just fine. +6+14 is best stance in my experience. Anything more forward than that, I would feel like some kind of hardboot monoskier.


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## chomps1211 (Mar 30, 2011)

neni said:


> K, gonna have to take this back. Cos the guys were tired after the hike,* I went back to my switch project, fetched the Farah and set the angles to 15/-9. Hopped on the board and... just rode as if it's nothing. They felt comfy from the first second, charging, slay moguls, even carve... no prob.* Dunno why I struggled last year on that demo board :facepalm3:


That's good, right? :jumping1: Iir, you felt really, really awkward riding with ducked angles last year, correct? This should make switch a little simpler if you choose to give it anther go!

Good for you! :thumbsup:


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## t21 (Dec 29, 2010)

neni said:


> K, gonna have to take this back. Cos the guys were tired after the hike, I went back to my switch project, fetched the Farah and set the angles to 15/-9. Hopped on the board and... just rode as if it's nothing. They felt comfy from the first second, charging, slay moguls, even carve... no prob. Dunno why I struggled last year on that demo board :facepalm3:


K,now your going duck? glad that your liking that:happy: I guess my experience on riding positive was pretty good so far though i have a slight discomfort on my calve on my back leg. I adjusted my forward lean a bit more but it was still there although it was not too bad. But for now i have to wait to ride again while i heal after i had a crash and bruised my ribs :injured:


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## IS3_FTW (Jan 21, 2013)

I been riding duck for the past 5yrs. Never once did i think about going +/+. I normally ride by myself, so i hit the parks most of the time. When i ride with friends, they normally go through trees and moguls. I just never really could get a good feel in my board with my friends and been debating on switching to a camber board. Then i saw someone posting on here about +/+. Then i was thinking, what the hell do i have to lose

I decided to jump into +30/+12 the first day. I did notice that my stance was wider(duck setup) and my ankle started hurting. So, i reduced the width and added forward lean to both front/rear bindings. Much better and i felt more control on my turns :jumping1:


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

chomps1211 said:


> That's good, right? :jumping1: Iir, you felt really, really awkward riding with ducked angles last year, correct? This should make switch a little simpler if you choose to give it anther go!


Yeah, seems as if it that big wide mens demo board wasn't helpful to do duck experiments; on that board, I really felt unable to ride with those angles. On the agile narrow Farah, it's a no brainer .



t21 said:


> K,now your going duck? glad that your liking that:happy:


Thanks :happy:. As chomps mentioned, learning switch - and then general basic freestyle skillz - is on my to do list to become a more versatile rider. So it's just kind of an experiment . The freeride boards are still setup with fwd angles. 
Speedy recovery!

I think it's pretty cool that some of you are doing experiments as well!


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## Seppuccu (Dec 4, 2012)

It seems I've started something...


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