# Tips on a 360? (video)



## dopamean (Nov 1, 2012)

Here's a cool little tutorial, hope it helps! Post another vid later with your progression :thumbsup:






@ around 1:20 he talks about spotting your landing too soon, which can lead to that over rotation you're experiencing.


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## david_z (Dec 14, 2009)

you landed super tail heavy in the backseat, heel edge with a hand drag. It's natural that you have next to zero control over the board in this situation, spinning out probably saved you a nasty scorpion 

All things considered I don't know how you muscled around a 3.

Your arms are doing some crazy stuff for the entire spin and I'm not sure but it didn't look like you were properly looking over your shoulder. I think it's the last part that is really causing the washout and tail-heavy landing, you were nowhere near close to spotting the landing looking forward and opening up to stop the rotation. In fact as you touched down you were basically looking back and down at the tail of your board.

Landing on the bolts will help, too, if you can firmly stomp the landing you'll be less likely to spin out.


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## iechoi (Apr 20, 2012)

I think you misjudged the amount of air time you'd be getting vs. how hard you had to throw the spin. It looks like your lower body has come around a full 360 when your board hits the ground for the landing, but your upper body is still rotating and it's causing that extra heel spin on the landing. IIRC, you're supposed to land blind (i.e. looking uphill) for a frontside 3.


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## rwspear (Mar 26, 2012)

My humble observations:

It appears that you wait to huck the last 180 degrees until the very last second. Rather than simultaneously jumping/hucking and THEN spotting your landing, it's as if you jump, spot your landing, and THEN huck. 

Look at your face throughout the jump. You're staring at your landing from the second you leave the lip, and though your body is rotating, your head is locked until the last second. Your head and shoulders should be the first body part to rotate, not the last. Lead with your head/face; the rest of your body will follow. You should spot your landing AFTER you've rotated the first 180 degrees.

Honestly, it looks like you're a little timid when it comes to committing to the blind landing. If you fully commit to the first 180 degrees from the start you won't have to huck so hard once you're in the air. This is probably why you're washing out; you still have a lot of rotational force after you land. Proper technique and timing will give you the control needed to stop the spin. 

edit: YOU WILL BE LOOKING UPHILL WHEN YOU LAND, and this is what keeps you from rotating into a 540 (blind landing, similar to a BS180).

Can you FS3 on flatland? If not, it's only due to technique, bc its an easy trick. If you can stomp your 3's in the flats you'll have no trouble with jumps. 

tldr: Rotate your head first, not last. Spot your landing after the first 180 degrees, not prior.


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## andiecandyglass (Jan 5, 2013)

*Thanks guys!*

Thanks everyone for all your help. I'm going to try all your tips next time I go.


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## jyuen (Dec 16, 2007)

is that MSLM in ontario?


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## Jed (May 11, 2011)

3 things:

1) More speed

Hard to tell from the video, but it looks like you came up short on the landing or barely made the landing. You need to take more speed so don't end up bouncing off the knuckle.

2) Carve into the spin

Right now it looks like you're forcing the 360 with your body. I didn't see any real heelside carve and it looked like you just went heelside at the last second and threw your body around.

You were on your heels, but there wasn't any carve which is why you have to huck your body so hard to get rotation.

Work on going into a heelside carve up the ramp and you'll find rotation comes a lot easier.

3) Look back up the landing

As others said, frontside 360s are blind landings, meaning you have to land looking back up the landing as you land the trick to stop the rotation, otherwise you keep spinning into a 540.

You shouldn't be looking back downhill until after you've stomped the trick and are riding away clean.


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## dkzach (Jun 30, 2011)

This is someone who literally learned how to front 7 in one day last week " only ever spun backside". I'm telling you the best practice for front spins off jumps is front spins on boxes ! Just sesh a wide box all day till you can spin like mad! Just do what you think is natural figure it out your self, then try the exact same maneuver off a jump ( remember to pop, you need to work on that) and you will see how easy front spins really are... Tips spinning on boxes forces you to continue your momentum since there is no air time , while trying 3s off a jump can often give beginners false realizations since its a fairly simple trick but the building block of all spins and place improper form into your muscle memory making it increasingly more difficult to perform greater spins. This is why being a well rounded rider is so important... Also remember to work on switch riding All the time and do front AND back spins, like seriously when your riding around not in park practicing flat front and back as well as switch 180s will step your game up really fast! Wish someone told me that... Do somthing new everyday, don't get repetitive.


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## Jed (May 11, 2011)

dkzach said:


> This is someone who literally learned how to front 7 in one day last week " only ever spun backside". I'm telling you the best practice for front spins off jumps is front spins on boxes ! Just sesh a wide box all day till you can spin like mad! Just do what you think is natural figure it out your self, then try the exact same maneuver off a jump ( remember to pop, you need to work on that) and you will see how easy front spins really are... Tips spinning on boxes forces you to continue your momentum since there is no air time , while trying 3s off a jump can often give beginners false realizations since its a fairly simple trick but the building block of all spins and place improper form into your muscle memory making it increasingly more difficult to perform greater spins. This is why being a well rounded rider is so important... Also remember to work on switch riding All the time and do front AND back spins, like seriously when your riding around not in park practicing flat front and back as well as switch 180s will step your game up really fast! Wish someone told me that... Do somthing new everyday, don't get repetitive.


Firstly, you really need to start using paragraphs. It was REALLY hard to read that.

Secondly, learning to spin by 'doing what feels natural' and 'figuring it out yourself' is horrible advice. Do not listen to this advice please.

You should be learning to spin by finding out how to create a smooth spin (eg - watch one of the free snowboard addiction videos on spinning), then practicing to recreate the movement correctly.


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## dkzach (Jun 30, 2011)

Jed said:


> Firstly, you really need to start using paragraphs. It was REALLY hard to read that.
> 
> Secondly, learning to spin by 'doing what feels natural' and 'figuring it out yourself' is horrible advice. Do not listen to this advice please.
> 
> You should be learning to spin by finding out how to create a smooth spin (eg - watch one of the free snowboard addiction videos on spinning), then practicing to recreate the movement correctly.



You see, I'm referring more to learning to spin on a "box" by experimenting with what works for you .Proper spins require a proper skill set first. Obviously more things play into account to spin off a jump such as your "set up carve" "platform" "release" all that, but! Lets be serious in order to perform a 720 wizard spin on a box it basically forces you to learn these skills without really thinking about them it's near impossible to spin a jerky rotation over 360 on a box because its a much smaller scale and different circumstance.

The list to remember for the perfect spin on SA taut me how to spin backside but what I found is because there's so many things to remember it becomes more complex than it is... Now when just fooling around seshing with your buddy's pushing each other, your creating for yourself not only your unique style, but a way to progress faster. Fooling around pushing yourself to get that next rotation on a box really refines All the skills found in the SA videos ( I own them) to a much less intimidating scale because ,the take off is smaller, because you learn to have a fluent release, because naturally you learn edge control, aswell spin flat because if your use an edge on box you bail. 

Not saying to go in completely blind with no plan, just saying one needs to experience progression within their selfs in order to achieve greater... Haha you think pro riders 10 years ago went on the Internet for tips? Hell no everything was from experience. Just having fun.

I ride a small hill with a dedicated park which has a rope so I can get like 50 park runs in night if I wanted, obviously if you ride less frequently on a big resort that requires you take a lift for 15 min to ride 3 park features your going to want to know exactly what your doing AKA mesmerize the SA videos hehe.


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## Jed (May 11, 2011)

dkzach said:


> You see, I'm referring more to learning to spin on a "box" by experimenting with what works for you .Proper spins require a proper skill set first. Obviously more things play into account to spin off a jump such as your "set up carve" "platform" "release" all that, but! Lets be serious in order to perform a 720 wizard spin on a box it basically forces you to learn these skills without really thinking about them it's near impossible to spin a jerky rotation over 360 on a box because its a much smaller scale and different circumstance.
> 
> The list to remember for the perfect spin on SA taut me how to spin backside but what I found is because there's so many things to remember it becomes more complex than it is... Now when just fooling around seshing with your buddy's pushing each other, your creating for yourself not only your unique style, but a way to progress faster. Fooling around pushing yourself to get that next rotation on a box really refines All the skills found in the SA videos ( I own them) to a much less intimidating scale because ,the take off is smaller, because you learn to have a fluent release, because naturally you learn edge control, aswell spin flat because if your use an edge on box you bail.
> 
> ...


I can't agree with you on this one. I think you happened to get the whole 'spin onto a box' thing to work for you, but it's not going to work for a vast majority of people.

The spin initiation for boxes and jumps is similar, but the rest of riding a box is totally different. For most people you're going to confuse them if you tell them to use a box to learn to spin. If anything I'd bet using a box to learn to spin makes their spin technique worse and they'll learn slower.

I'd actually advise people to go the opposite way, by learning spins on flatground and jumps first then taking it to boxes and rails because then they're learning correct spin execution that they can instantly apply to every other spin trick.


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## dkzach (Jun 30, 2011)

I think one thing we can agree on though is the importance of riding with a good old pal ready to criticize you and tell you what your doing wrong aswell as offer advise on what to try differenty next time. That and to smack you inline when your style is wack! Make your buddy your coach! 

Still belive reading a bunch of stuff of how to do somthing may help a bit with understanding the principle. But it really all comes down to applying what you read in a way you yourself can understand and explain. For me I fully understand the connection of rotation between boxes and jumps. Though watching the SA videos left me aware of release, without the knolage of how it feels it was a step that took some deep thinking. Connecting skills from other aspects of riding helped me link the situations together I realize " holy cow there actually the same motion!" 

Also bailing is a part of progression, which is why taking steps to reduce injury such as Ariel awareness classes greatly increase your rate of progression by letting you be able to go try it again.

Everything is possible if you have your head in the right place and want to make it happen. Haldor Helgason

No matter what pretend you land the trick, visualize, landing the trick even if you fall, take it easy. Nev Lapwood


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## Jed (May 11, 2011)

dkzach said:


> I think one thing we can agree on though is the importance of riding with a good old pal ready to criticize you and tell you what your doing wrong aswell as offer advise on what to try differenty next time. That and to smack you inline when your style is wack! Make your buddy your coach!
> 
> Still belive reading a bunch of stuff of how to do somthing may help a bit with understanding the principle. But it really all comes down to applying what you read in a way you yourself can understand and explain. For me I fully understand the connection of rotation between boxes and jumps. Though watching the SA videos left me aware of release, without the knolage of how it feels it was a step that took some deep thinking. Connecting skills from other aspects of riding helped me link the situations together I realize " holy cow there actually the same motion!"
> 
> ...


I'm not sure why you suddenly went into all that visualization and progression stuff, it's kind of a totally different topic.

I think you're missing the point here. I'm not saying your tactic doesn't work for you because it seems it does.

I'm saying you're an exception because of a certain set of circumstances that you're in where you happened to get x and y to click but couldn't figure out z until you did it on a box.

The mistake 99% of people make when giving snowboard trick advice is they forget that the people they give advice to are in a different situation to them. You have to look at it from the eyes and experience of the person going into it, not your own experience.


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## dkzach (Jun 30, 2011)

TBH I was just really bored and took this opportunity to practice my English and social rambling for my Diplomas coming up XD... But seriously linking previous knowledge to new ideas is the shit! Which is why in the end you have to learn things yourself. No amount of reading can make you perfectly land a trick the first time. You have to be able to visualize and instinctively feel the trick before you even attempt it! Understanding is one thing, applying is another.

Why the sudden change of topic, you can give a man meal, or you can teach him how to fish... 

I'm not just trying to help this guy learn 360s I'm trying to teach this guy a new way of approaching any new trick as a beginner. 

Similar to the education system gradually teaching you things so you can apply them in multiple situations which in many cases applies to learning a entire new topic!(trick) certain aspects of riding will help any number of people pull from what they already know to apply into there building knolls he of snowboard physics!!!

Just planting a seed!!!


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## Jed (May 11, 2011)

The funny thing is I actually do agree with your concept of learning (building certain skills ie. spinning and linking it to new tricks) and have recommended it to others before, even though I disagree with how you're applying it in regards to the whole box spinning learning thing.

*Warning, serious educational content below this not related to snowboarding:*

Since you enjoy psychology type stuff, I'll add something you might find interesting to dig into on google since I'm kind of a huge nerd when it comes to learning psychology and behavioural effects 

The 'teach a man to fish' concept works in theory, but never in person.

It's something marketers stumbled upon when they practiced sales and crafting effective marketing offers to customers.

In reality no one is searching for how to fish, they just want a fish without the work. So basically if you try to teach people to fish they'll instead find someone selling fish.

If you want to teach a man to fish, you have to sell fish and somehow sneak in the 'how to fish' portion on the backend.


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## jeephreak (Nov 18, 2012)

This is pretty deep for a 360. Its quickly become more of a stock trick and I never thought a bunch about breaking it down when we taught it to the team kids. (We just started with a small jump and had them spin looking over their shoulder, core engaged, spotting the landing)

Popping 180s all over the place is a good place to start. front side 180's and then switch 180s (the 2nd half of the 360). Flat land 360s and spins (as in that 2nd video) are typically the next step. We also would take the kids out of their boards and have them stand like they were strapped into their board approaching the take-off. From there we would have them do a little pre-wind and jump while doing the 360 motion engaging their core and using their arms and head to look 360 for the spin and spot the landing. 

Personally I think telling the rider to look at the take off typically leads to them stopping their spin (years of coaching gymnastics speaking here)..... Look over the shoulder for the landing and lock into that. Get the action and muscle memory in your head before taking it to snow. Jump off things (without your board and practice 360s). Ledges, retaining walls, picnic tables, etc...

Practice (first without, then with the board) standing on flat ground (in your living room, bedroom, on the mtn etc) jumping and doing 360s over exaggerating the motions (swing your arms into it as a little wind up). Muscle memory will help. You should be able to pop a 360 off just about anything. Doing it off a kicker of any size should be easier as you have more air and time to get the spin around at various speeds. 

If you can take an old board, duct tape the edges and get on a trampoline. 

Bottom line, committing to the trick will make all the difference. Good luck and post a follow up video.


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## david_z (Dec 14, 2009)

jeephreak said:


> This is pretty deep for a 360. Its quickly become more of a stock trick and I never thought a bunch about breaking it down when we taught it to the team kids. (We just started with a small jump and had them spin looking over their shoulder, *core engaged*, spotting the landing)


Core engaged is key. The rest of your advice is good, too


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