# Tahoe trip - suggestions



## chilliwilli (Dec 8, 2008)

Planning on a trip with the Mrs. to Tahoe over Xmas & New Years. We're looking at booking a cabin/house through VRBO, instead of hotel or slope-side, for privacy and to have some friends over to BBQ. We're all set with flights into SFO and the mountains we plan on visiting (Kirkwood, Northstar, Squaw). I'm not new to the area but past trips were with buddies and we rented a large van that fit us all and our gear.

What i need suggestions or direction with is a specialty rental agency in the SF/Bay area that will rent a 4x4 SUV with ski/snowboard rack and chains. I haven't had much luck searching for such a service in the bay area. We're also considering renting an SUV at the airport, then renting a ski rack and buying chains (that is if the rental agency allows chains). Please advise on any thoughts or ideas, thanks!

-Chilli


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## Snowman26 (Mar 17, 2010)

if you have 4 wheel drive why put chains?


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## Bostonshayne76 (Jan 18, 2010)

*I am glad I saw your thread !!*

Chili ,

We spend EVERY single December in S. Lake Tahoe . You will looooooove it . Its amazing . Never gets old to us . First off the mountain ( Heavenly ) is fabulous . All nice people . As far as renting a vehicle we always rented from the Reno airport ( which is where we fly into ) . If you are coming from another direction I would recommend renting from the airport . As far as chains goes ........ Just do yourself a hugh favor and keep a good eye on the Tahoe weather before and while you are heading there . EVERY airport within 400 miles will try to push you to upgrade and get a four wheel drive with chains . They got me the first 2 times , and I quickly smartened up after that . 
Its simple if you see any snowy weather a day or so before your trip , or in the forecast while you are there then just save yourself the hassle and upgrade to a four wheel drive . If the weather looks good then DONT worry about upgrading . 
But do check the weather because if the weather is bad they will stop you and make you head back down the mountain to get chains and everything . Also if you and your significant other have not found a cabin yet . I can send you a link to the most amazing cabin . You will not find a more cozy cabin than the one we stay at every year . I know the owner ( from renting so many times ) . He is a great guy . Heres the kicker ......... the cabin is like $120 a night which is cheaper than the hotels !! And it is a 2 minute drive from Harveys , Heavenly , and the village . If you are interested in the site feel free to email me at [email protected] and I will gladly send you guys the link . P.S. I just booked our 3 night stay in mid December , and I noticed the rest of the month is wide open . So you would basically have your pick of the days to stay . Hope some of this helps.


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## thugit (Sep 29, 2009)

Snowman26 said:


> if you have 4 wheel drive why put chains?


Because tires freeze and 4WD only helps with acceleration in snow, rather than braking and turning.


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## killclimbz (Aug 10, 2007)

Not too mention at times CalTrans requires you to have chains regardless of the fact that you have 4wd/AWD. If you are traveling in the Sierras during winter, snow chains should be in the vehicle. Better to have them and not need them...


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## chilliwilli (Dec 8, 2008)

Thanks for the feedback gents...we're really looking forward to this trip. I prefer to be as equipped as possible so even if i had dedicated M&S tires on the SUV, i'd still have chains for a measure of safety and peace of mind. There's a chance we may explore smaller mountains as well...along with sightseeing. 

Bostonshayne, thanks for your feedback, we're narrowing down on a place to stay but i'll reach out for the link to the cabin. Aside from the 4x4 aspect, we prefer an SUV for the space, as we're traveling with our own gear.

There seems to be a number of rental agencies in the Tahoe/Neveda region that provide snow-ready auto rentals. My dilemma is that i have to land in San Fran for business before heading into Tahoe. If we can't locate a specialty rental company, worst case scenario, i'll just rent an SUV from the airport then buy a rack and chains. After our trip, i can leave the rack and chains with friends to sell/return.

Thanks again...


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## say chi sin lo (Oct 15, 2009)

Snowman26 said:


> if you have 4 wheel drive why put chains?


Cause you need traction to stop a car too. And actually, awd do nothing unless you got some snow tires. You're still going to skid.


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## ComeBack_Kid (May 27, 2009)

killclimbz said:


> *Not too mention at times CalTrans requires you to have chains regardless of the fact that you have 4wd/AWD*. If you are traveling in the Sierras during winter, snow chains should be in the vehicle. Better to have them and not need them...


This is absolutely false. Having lived in Tahoe, and being familiar with many a drive in heavy snowfall and many a Caltrans checkpoint, I know for fact that you will NEVER be required to have chains if you have a 4WD/AWD vehicle with SNOW tires. Check the Caltrans website for the area. Again, you have to have both 4wd/AWD and Snow tires(All seasons won't do). If you don't have both, then make sure to bring chains.


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## killclimbz (Aug 10, 2007)

ComeBack_Kid said:


> This is absolutely false. Having lived in Tahoe, and being familiar with many a drive in heavy snowfall and many a Caltrans checkpoint, I know for fact that you will NEVER be required to have chains if you have a 4WD/AWD vehicle with SNOW tires. Check the Caltrans website for the area. Again, you have to have both 4wd/AWD and Snow tires(All seasons won't do). If you don't have both, then make sure to bring chains.


Your statement is absolutely false and shows that you are just going by what you've seen. If Caltrans declares conditions R3 all vehicles are required to have chains. Don't believe me, check their website. I am pretty sure that is more official than your statement. 

Now it doesn't happen often and probably skips years at a time, but it does happen. I've been there. If you don't have chains in your vehicle you are just asking for a pain in the arse.


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## KIRKRIDER (Mar 18, 2008)

It's also true that they let you pass with all season and AWD...unless the road is closed and then you won't pass even with a snowcat. Once I declared my Sienna Minivan AWD..lol they let me pass...the patch of snow was just few miles...


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## ComeBack_Kid (May 27, 2009)

killclimbz said:


> Your statement is absolutely false and shows that you are just going by what you've seen. If Caltrans declares conditions R3 all vehicles are required to have chains. Don't believe me, check their website. I am pretty sure that is more official than your statement.
> 
> Now it doesn't happen often and probably skips years at a time, but it does happen. I've been there. If you don't have chains in your vehicle you are just asking for a pain in the arse.


Haha way to go genius, the link you provided *is not for Lake Tahoe, it is the NorthEastern part of the state, which does not include El Dorado county(Tahoe)*.
Again, speaking from experience and firsthand knowledge, you are wrong. Ignore this poster OP. Awd and 4WD with snow tires and you will NEVER be required to have chains in or around Tahoe. The "r3" code which does require chains for all vehicles is NEVER used in the area, but it is used widely in Southern California, as well as some Northern parts of I5. But for Tahoe, no worries


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## say chi sin lo (Oct 15, 2009)

Yeah I'll have to agree, you can throw snow tires on a RWD and those snow tires will be good to go. How much more traction will chains on top of snow tires give? That I don't know. But with snow tires, and as long as the sky is clear, it should be fine.

If anything, the limiting factor is visbility. I drove through a blizzard-like condition once (Mid-December 2008, Tahoe). Even if I had snowmobiles that weekend, I wanted to get off the road ASAP.


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## killclimbz (Aug 10, 2007)

ComeBack_Kid said:


> Haha way to go genius, the link you provided *is not for Lake Tahoe, it is the NorthEastern part of the state, which does not include El Dorado county(Tahoe)*.
> Again, speaking from experience and firsthand knowledge, you are wrong. Ignore this poster OP. Awd and 4WD with snow tires and you will NEVER be required to have chains in or around Tahoe. The "r3" code which does require chains for all vehicles is NEVER used in the area, but it is used widely in Southern California, as well as some Northern parts of I5. But for Tahoe, no worries


Dude really? That is a state wide mandate. Do you really think it's based on County? You *really don't know what you are talking about*. R3 can and is used statewide and has been used on I80 many times in the past. Did I say it happens every winter? All the time? It does happen. But hey the worst that will happen is you are turned around and sent back on your way to Sacto or the Bay.

The California Driving Guide: Road and Weather Conditions

Anyway, yeah I go by experience too, but I also pay attention to what is on the books. I've also seen R3 conditions driving up to Tahoe. Fact. But Tahoe got a lot more snow back then than now, so maybe that's the difference. Show me where the state says that R3 is never used in Tahoe. Come on, show me...


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## killclimbz (Aug 10, 2007)

I guess to the point though, if you are going to declare R3 conditions, I80 is most likely going to be closed anyway. The time we got into that in a 4wd the highway closed not too long after wards. It was also closed for several days. For $30 a set of cables or chains you can return if not used is not much of a price to pay.


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## ComeBack_Kid (May 27, 2009)

killclimbz said:


> Dude really? That is a state wide mandate. Do you really think it's based on County? You *really don't know what you are talking about*. R3 can and is used statewide and has been used on I80 many times in the past. Did I say it happens every winter? All the time? It does happen. But hey the worst that will happen is you are turned around and sent back on your way to Sacto or the Bay.
> 
> The California Driving Guide: Road and Weather Conditions
> 
> Anyway, yeah I go by experience too, but I also pay attention to what is on the books. I've also seen R3 conditions driving up to Tahoe. Fact. But Tahoe got a lot more snow back then than now, so maybe that's the difference. Show me where the state says that R3 is never used in Tahoe. Come on, show me...


Cool story bro! You can argue all day, but you're flat-out wrong. I actually lived there, and know how things are actually done. I also was born and raised in Hawaii, and lived there for 18 years but maybe you want to tell me how things work there as well, since years of experience and accumulated knowledge seem to count for nothing, but hey you visited once so you know better than everyone, right?! 
I know for fact that in and around Tahoe, they *NEVER ISSUE R3* It's either R1, R2, or the ROAD IS CLOSED. That's it. Like I already said, YES THEY HAVE THE OPTION TO USE R3 BUT IT IS NEVER ENFORCED. You sound old and deluded with your "Well, back in my day there was so much more snow, so maybe thats it!" Good job grandpa, except there is no evidence to back that up at all, as snowfall totals have not gone dramatically up or down since records starting being taken in the Tahoe basin. If anything, its that roads and cars have gotten safer since you originally came up in your horse and wagon with the Donner Party. In conclusion, what a great FAIL on your part.

To the OP: Excuse the above poster, us who actually lived there can tell you that if you have 4WD or AWD with snow tires then if the road is open, you will be good to go. Otherwise, bring tire chains. Ask anybody who actually lives there, locals with awd/4wd and snow tires DO NOT carry chains because R3 is NEVER enforced. End of story. Have a fun and safe trip!


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## ComeBack_Kid (May 27, 2009)

killclimbz said:


> I guess to the point though, if you are going to declare R3 conditions, I80 is most likely going to be closed anyway.


*Quoted for truth.* Like I've been saying...


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## killclimbz (Aug 10, 2007)

Ummm, I've lived there too. Lived there a lot longer than you. Grew up in Cali, I know it all too well...

If you are in Tahoe, than yeah, you wouldn't need chains. The OP is coming up from the Bay not flying into SLT or even Reno.

And keep hurling insults. Brilliant move on your part.


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## say chi sin lo (Oct 15, 2009)

Snowolf said:


> Ummm, the difference is like night and day....


Oh sorry I didn't know. Just heard from people that snow tires are about as far as they go. If it's bad enough to put chains on snow tires, it's a sign to stay home...


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## thugit (Sep 29, 2009)

Snowolf said:


> Sorry comeback kid, but Killclimbz is correct. All states have what is called a "conditional road closure". This is effectively a full closure, but law enforcement has the discretion to allow properly equipped vehicles through the closure. I have traveled extensively through both Nevada and California and work with the D.O.T. What you are saying about 4WD, AWD and Snow tires is true when conditions state "traction tires or devices required" Any state, county or municipality can at their discretion implement a "Chains Required ALL Vehicles" anytime they decide it is warranted and you can argue with them to your little heart`s content and you are still not going to get through.
> 
> Besides this, it is simply a good idea to have a set in the vehicle. 4WD and all that is great, but there are situations you might find yourself in where having a set of chains means the difference between the pits of getting out and putting them on or spending a cold night in your car waiting for a tow truck. Common sense would dictate to anyone with the sense possessed by a sack of door knobs, that being prepared in winter driving is a pretty good idea.
> 
> ...


Oh snap! How's the Comeback kid gonna comeback to that?


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## killclimbz (Aug 10, 2007)

thugit said:


> Oh snap! How's the Comeback kid gonna comeback to that?


I'm sure he'll find a way...:laugh:


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## thugit (Sep 29, 2009)

I don't know man, he's from Hawaii, so he is a credible source when it comes to California road conditions...


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## killclimbz (Aug 10, 2007)

He's from Hawaii, but I believe he is living in or around Tahoe. And for the record, he's probably right that R3 conditions won't happen. They are super rare anywhere (other states equivalent) in the US. When it's that bad the roads are probably not going to be open. I've ran into and R3 once in Cali and once in Colorado. Most of the time an R3 just means the road is going to close shortly. The thing is if the OP isn't prepared, according to Murphy's Law it will probably happen on his trip when he's trying to get to Tahoe if he doesn't have chains in the vehicle...


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## killclimbz (Aug 10, 2007)

Well you can get butt raped by the chain gangs on the Cali Highways. The ones that charge you something like $100 cash to make chains for your vehicle right there and put them on. Only to realize they are about the worst you can own. Pretty sure those guys are still out there when the conditions warrant.


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## Reede (Feb 16, 2009)

I had to dump $600 in a set of chains because my car can't fit traditional chains and most of the alternatives are not approved for use on Australian roads.

I needed to use them on our first day down there this season just to get out of the space I was parked in;










I know that Australian laws differ a lot, but here the rules are that 2wd cars must carry chains (ive been randomly inspected several times) and 4wd ones are "recommended" to carry chains, I have looked very far into this definition of "recommended" and it is in fact not required, but the rangers still reserve the power to disallow a 4wd car that doesnt have chains.

That said tho, this will basically never happen in Aus because it doesn't snow properly here, the above pic was a result of 6 hours in one of the biggest storms we have seen in 10 years.


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## killclimbz (Aug 10, 2007)

Your story is reminding me of the BMW story at TGR. Ouch man, that's some coin to drop for stupid chains. Looks like it's a sweet ride at least...


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## Reede (Feb 16, 2009)

Yea I knew what I was in for before I bought the car fortunately, the expensive chains are really nice tho, wrap around, bolt onto a wheel nut, drive away and they roll themselves onto the wheel. Takes about 15 seconds per wheel to fit.

Modern cars with sports suspension/fat tyres generally have 2 choices, spend up big on chains, or buy a smaller set of tyres that can fit them


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## say chi sin lo (Oct 15, 2009)

Reede said:


> I had to dump $600 in a set of chains because my car can't fit traditional chains and most of the alternatives are not approved for use on Australian roads.
> 
> I needed to use them on our first day down there this season just to get out of the space I was parked in;
> 
> ...


Mazdaspeed! I have the 1st gen in Crystal White Pearl! Maybe you're on the mazda forum too?

But yeah, can't put traditional CHAINS chains on low profile tires. And I could be wrong, but cable chains don't seem to work as well as CHAINS chains. 

But I'll be putting snow tires on my Mazdaspeed this coming season.


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## Reede (Feb 16, 2009)

Haha Kindred spirits =)

In Australia they call it the 3 MPS but yea, while we're here i'm happy to refer to it as a Mazdaspeed3

If you still need a set of chains, heres the ones I ended up buying.
http://www.konig.it/SchedaProd.aspx?ID=920


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## say chi sin lo (Oct 15, 2009)

It's related to the topic because that picture was taken in Tahoe...


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## chilliwilli (Dec 8, 2008)

Thanks for the info and confirmation on vehicle requirements. I just booked an suv (Chevy Tahoe) at SF airport...i doubt it will have snow tires so i'll def' pick up chains. All set, looking forward to shredding some serious powder and having a great time. 

Shane, thanks for the link to the cabin...can't beat that price in Tahoe and especially at the time of year we'll be visiting. We decided to book a house that meets all our needs.

-Chilli


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## say chi sin lo (Oct 15, 2009)

chilliwilli said:


> Thanks for the info and confirmation on vehicle requirements. I just booked an suv (Chevy Tahoe) at SF airport...i doubt it will have snow tires so i'll def' pick up chains. All set, looking forward to shredding some serious powder and having a great time.
> 
> Shane, thanks for the link to the cabin...can't beat that price in Tahoe and especially at the time of year we'll be visiting. We decided to book a house that meets all our needs.
> 
> -Chilli


I would recommend South Lake Tahoe. The town right next to Heavenly is nice.


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## chilliwilli (Dec 8, 2008)

say chi sin lo said:


> I would recommend South Lake Tahoe. The town right next to Heavenly is nice.


Thanks...South Lake was my preference. I believe we'll be within minutes of heavenly.

I've been to a few mountains on the northshore so this time around we'll spend most of our time on the southshore mountains. Kirkwood is def' on my hit list, Sierra and Homewood to teach the noob friends & fam. I've heard and read a lot of negative comments on Heavenly not being that great for snowboarding, due to many flats. I also read positive comments on this forum by a fella that i believe works at Heavenly. It seems that if i choose the right trails to hit, i can avoid the flats but for the trails with flats, will just have to bomb it...Heavenly wasn't on my hit list but we may visit since we're so close. 

I'd love to read about some of your feedback on Heavenly, if you don't mind sharing...but from people who have actually experienced the mountain.


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## Snowman26 (Mar 17, 2010)

a lot has been posted since i last checked. here is my car after a huge storm. the following day was beautiful for riding.


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