# Help me progress (video inside)



## speedjason (May 2, 2013)

A couple of things:
First, you are standing really straight, not enough bending at the knees and at the hip.
Second, your upper body is counter rotating against the lower body.
Third, your legs are very stiff not absorbing all the bumps so they throw you off balance.
Is your stance reference? Maybe you can use a wider stance?


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## woodhouse (Jan 18, 2013)

speedjason said:


> A couple of things:
> First, you are standing really straight, not enough bending at the knees and at the hip.
> Second, your upper body is counter rotating against the lower body.
> Third, your legs are very stiff not absorbing all the bumps so they throw you off balance.
> Is your stance reference? Maybe you can use a wider stance?


All the things you mentioned I thought I was doing at the time, what I thought I was doing and what I was actually doing seem to be 2 different things lol. 
My board did not have a reference stance, this width is just what felt comfortable.


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## Scalpelman (Dec 5, 2017)

woodhouse said:


> *Current setup
> *
> *Self:* 5'10 180lbs
> *Board:* Lib Tech terrain wrecker 157 17-18 model
> ...




Looks pretty good for your stage of progression. 

In general a lower stance will help with edge control. And in general you should embrace the edge. I never flat base if I can help it. I’m always on edge, even if just a little. That’s where you gain the control that you seek. Practice at lower speed in firm but not icy conditions. Focus on alternating edges with squat stance. Feel the edge engage and lock in. The side cut will turn for you instead of a controlled slide. 

Front edge should initiate the turn. 

Finally a tip from @Wraith helped me lose the counter rotation. Lose the trailing cheetah tail arm. Keep it close to your body, preferably in front. 

Speed will come when you gain better control.


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## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

You are riding the middle and tail of the board...get on the nose...be aggressive....once you get used to attacking the nose...your movement fore and aft will fall in to place.

Also you are not letting the board run on its side cut, widen your stance so that you can squat and glue your elbows to your ribs...or just cruise around holding yer jewels...instead of having your arms flinging about.


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## MrDavey2Shoes (Mar 5, 2018)

Its like that song about apple bottom jeans and the boots with the furrrr (WIT DA FURRR!)

gotta get low low low low low low low low low

As with all things on the board, with time, speed will be your friend.

Practice emergency stops on a wide empty trail and increase the speed as you grow more comfortable. The thing about speed is you'll only go as fast as you feel you can safely stop. Its kinda ironic, increase speed by learning a commanding stop. Once you're cruising a little faster....

You've got 180 lbs to throw around, drive into the sidecut of the board, realize it will flex when you put weight into it and don't be afraid of slipping out (be ready for that and don't brace for a fall with your wrists lol). It'll happen, thats how you find your balance on edge.

Don't think about it too much. I think you learn the most when you're having a good time. Often what feels right is right. By that I mean, when everything is working smoothly and you're in the flow you won't know what exactly you're doing but you'll know its happening. Have fun!


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## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

Couple of things:

When going fast, blasting...don't worry about catching an edge...there is basically no edge to catch because your edges are basically running parallel or at least within 45 degrees to the fall line....the only things to attend to is to be on an edge and focus on attacking the nose when transitioning between edges.

This past Saturday, while blasting groomers 40-60 mph, I lost it a couple of times which reminded me....If you happen to loose an edge, i.e., fall...just slide it out, slow down and let some of the kinetic energy burn off. Realize that you actually are already fairly close to the ground because you are low and railing carves...so its more of a slide out than a fall...really you only have 1-2 feet to fall/or put you body on the ground. But DO NOT put your board down...keep it in the air so that you don't catch an edge and launch yourself. Also, keep your body tucked/compact and hold on to yourself with your arms...presuming that you are blasting groomers (as in the vid)...riding actual steeps will involve self-arresting techniques.

edit: Also for your weight, a 157 is too short...not enough effective edge to hold while railing carves....something more like a 162-166 full camber stiffy would be more appropriate. On a 157 yes you can do some slow to medium speed railing carves...but the tendency will be washing out.


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## MrDavey2Shoes (Mar 5, 2018)

wrathfuldeity said:


> edit: Also for your weight, a 157 is too short...not enough effective edge to hold while railing carves....something more like a 162-166 full camber stiffy would be more appropriate. On a 157 yes you can do some slow to medium speed railing carves...but the tendency will be washing out.


I do not think this is a good idea. lol

Everything else is spot on.


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## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

MrDavey2Shoes said:


> I do not think this is a good idea. lol
> 
> Everything else is spot on.


hahah...perhaps...but a big board will make him scared...like a little kitty and he will crouch down...and thus it will actually help his riding technique...lol...>


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## woodhouse (Jan 18, 2013)

Wow, this is exactly the feedback I was looking for guys, thank you all

Im heading up to Hunter mountain this weekend and my main takeaways I have here are:

-Widen up my stance a bit and center it
-Get some more weight and power over my front foot
-Get lower (should this feel weird when just cruising, or should I be low at all times?)
-Keep hands tucked into body to avoid using my upper body to engage turns


I felt the 157 was good for my weight and riding style I want to achieve, Im not looking to become some master carver, just want to have control of my board and I would like to learn butters presses and spins down the road.

I did try my buddies 163 wide k2 board, and lets just say the board rode me, not the other way around


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## Snowdaddy (Feb 2, 2018)

woodhouse said:


> Wow, this is exactly the feedback I was looking for guys, thank you all
> 
> Im heading up to Hunter mountain this weekend and my main takeaways I have here are:
> 
> ...


Maybe try increasing the forward lean on the highbacks as well, if they have that option


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## RayC (Oct 3, 2018)

woodhouse said:


> *Current setup
> *
> 
> In order not to fall I feel the need to *engage an edge which in turn kills my speed that is needed to progress thru the trail.*


It should be the opposite! Try checking online tutorials for form and compare your own footage with theirs!

This is one of my fav tutorials https://youtu.be/DLDEX4ywLJU


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## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

woodhouse said:


> ...
> -Widen up my stance a bit and center it
> -Get some more weight and power over my front foot
> -Get lower (should this feel weird when just cruising, or should I be low at all times?)
> ...


getting lower...well its really moving up and down...getting dynamic

as for hands/arms tucked....its really a swing weight issue....if you have yer arms extended out and flaying around, it retards/or slows your upper body because it the weight is swung in the wrong direction for your pending/anticipated next move. Its the spinning perorioetts thing with figure skaters.

its a progression...do a drill of just slow cruising a mellow run and swing your arms...notice how it effects your board, 
Second use your leading hand to point your turns and your trailing hand in the opposite side of the board...this helps to power the turn by aligning your upper body in the direction of the turn and keep your upper body in the cereal box.
Third...after you get comfortable with point your turns...then loose the arms, keep your elbows glued to your ribs and your hands holding yer nutz.
Fourth...keeping hold of yer nutz...begin using your shoulders in a boxing "duck and weave" kind of notion.
Thus you will find that by keeping the upper body compacted, it will help keep the upper body stacked and aligned for powering turnjs/carves/jump turns...but without the draw back of your movements being retarded because of your hands/arms being extended.
You don't want your body/arms doing a bunch of shit that is not helping anything...infact often hindering. IMHO you want to develop an efficient and effective form to make your riding easier and to flow better...besides if yer traveling at 50 mph you want it tight....not flung all over the place.


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## LALUNE (Feb 23, 2017)

wrathfuldeity said:


> getting lower...well its really moving up and down...getting dynamic


I always find moving up and down/being dynamic a very ambiguous description of what actions it means. 
I tend to interpret it as weight and unweight your board during different phases of a turn. However, this is still confusing to me as you can weight your board when you initiate a turn, or during the turn, just different techniques.

Getting lower is definitely more straight forward.


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## speedjason (May 2, 2013)

woodhouse said:


> Wow, this is exactly the feedback I was looking for guys, thank you all
> 
> Im heading up to Hunter mountain this weekend and my main takeaways I have here are:
> 
> ...


Practice makes perfect. The more you do it, the better you will get. There is no quick guide when it comes to snowboarding.


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## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

LALUNE said:


> I always find moving up and down/being dynamic a very ambiguous description of what actions it means.
> I tend to interpret it as weight and unweight your board during different phases of a turn. However, this is still confusing to me as you can weight your board when you initiate a turn, or during the turn, just different techniques.
> 
> Getting lower is definitely more straight forward.


For a long time weighting and unweighting was confusing to me. However, you are/can move your body in the 3 axis over the board....OR move the board in the 3 axis under your body (3 axis fore/aft, toe/heelside and up/down.

3 things:
However, moving your body up and down, being dynamic is more about moving your body/weight and specifically more in the fore/aft movement over the board. (fore/middle/aft)

Where as weighting and unweighting is more about moving the board under your body and specifically more about transitioning the board from edge to edge, as in doing cross under turns. The motion is more of a sucking up your knees and extending. Its where your upper body is quiet relative to your knees and legs are actively absorbing the pop of the board and bumps in the terrain. In large part, this is why we use the knees and quads...keeping the knees bent...and not riding straight legged.

And then there is also pressuring edges, i.e., when in a carve with G forces...you sink in the knees at the middle/apex of the carve which is effectively weighting/pressuring the whole effective edge (during the middle of the carve). Secondly, then you extend your legs/rise up during the finishing/end of the carve which is pressuring the tail of the board... And lastly, you release/de-pressure the tail of the board and either move your body toward the nose to initiate the next turn...or you can move/pull the board backwards to being under (relative to your body). Its basically again unweighting or popping the board so that when it lands, your weight is more immediately on the nose.

Of course all of this happens quite quickly and largely unconsciously ... but its a good thing to be aware of on a conceptual level...because as you become more aware of it, you can use it to your advantage instead of being at the mercy of some unknown forces....bwahahaa. :hairy::eyetwitch2::nerd:


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## LALUNE (Feb 23, 2017)

wrathfuldeity said:


> For a long time weighting and unweighting was confusing to me. However, you are/can move your body in the 3 axis over the board....OR move the board in the 3 axis under your body (3 axis fore/aft, toe/heelside and up/down.
> 
> 3 things:
> However, moving your body up and down, being dynamic is more about moving your body/weight and specifically more in the fore/aft movement over the board. (fore/middle/aft)
> ...


This explanation is so well elaborated! Thanks Wrath. Apparently I misunderstood up and down the whole time as I thought it means weight and unweight.

I think the technique you mentioned is more for wide carve (C shapes wide carve). To do tight carves (S shape ones), you initiate the turn by torsionally twisting the tip while weighting your board, conceptually.


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## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

LALUNE said:


> This explanation is so well elaborated! Thanks Wrath. Apparently I misunderstood up and down the whole time as I thought it means weight and unweight.
> 
> I think the technique you mentioned is more for wide carve (C shapes wide carve). To do tight carves (S shape ones), you initiate the turn by torsionally twisting the tip while weighting your board, conceptually.


Yes, folks are more familiar with the wider C shape carves...but you can do tight S shape carves by either doing cross unders or by the torsional twisting. However doing the S shape on a fairly angled slope, at a higher speed...and using a full camber board can be fun...sort of like a gazelle or antelope running/hopping about.

Edit: Realize that it is easier and quicker to move the board under your body...than to move your body over the board...its just a physics mass thing. So if you got a poppy board and can load up pressure/de-camber it...and then able to release that pressure via sucking up (absorption) your knees...the split second of micro/mini air time you can move the board to the next edge or pull the board back and land/position on the nose so that you are immediately already initiating the next turn. Its like when you see folks on a fairly moderate slope and the just seem to be able kind of bunny hop turns in a nice smooth, flowing but quick manner.


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## LALUNE (Feb 23, 2017)

wrathfuldeity said:


> Yes, folks are more familiar with the wider C shape carves...but you can do tight S shape carves by either doing cross unders or by the torsional twisting. However doing the S shape on a fairly angled slope, at a higher speed...and using a full camber board can be fun...sort of like a gazelle or antelope running/hopping about.


I cannot think of a better analogy.


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## chomps1211 (Mar 30, 2011)

wrathfuldeity said:


> Yes, folks are more familiar with the wider C shape carves...but you can do tight S shape carves by either doing cross unders or by the torsional twisting. However doing the S shape on a fairly angled slope, at a higher speed...and using a full camber board can be fun...sort of like a gazelle or antelope running/hopping about.
> 
> Edit: Realize that it is easier and quicker to move the board under your body...than to move your body over the board...its just a physics mass thing. So if you got a poppy board and can load up pressure/de-camber it...and then able to release that pressure via sucking up (absorption) your knees...the split second of micro/mini air time you can move the board to the next edge or pull the board back and land/position on the nose so that you are immediately already initiating the next turn. Its like when you see folks on a fairly moderate slope and the just seem to be able kind of bunny hop turns in a nice smooth, flowing but quick manner.





LALUNE said:


> I cannot think of a better analogy.



...and when you're getting low & fast and moving that board edge to edge under your body like that it feels absolutely *AWESOME!!!*  :laugh:


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## Scalpelman (Dec 5, 2017)

Wow. Another set of awesome “pearls” from Wrath.


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

wrathfuldeity said:


> So if you got a poppy board and can load up pressure/de-camber it...and then able to release that pressure via sucking up (absorption) your knees...the *split second of micro/mini air time you can move the board to the next edge* or pull the board back and land/position on the nose so that you are immediately already initiating the next turn.


That's the _real_ fun IMO. As much as I like long drawn out g force C turns? The fun of short fast S turns with loaded board release before reaching the apex to jump into the next S beats it.


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## tonymontana (Dec 10, 2016)

Just discovered how find a smooth rhythm and how to do those hop s turns. Tons of fun. Great information here. 

I'm at work and didn't watch your video, but something that helped me as I progressed was realizing to look further ahead. Especially as I got comfortable maintaining higher speeds.


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

woodhouse said:


> Wow, this is exactly the feedback I was looking for guys, thank you all
> 
> Im heading up to Hunter mountain this weekend and my main takeaways I have here are:
> 
> ...


Yes. Basically this:





He rides fwd stance, so a bit difference in shoulder and hip alignment for duck stance people... but overall, same concept.


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## speedjason (May 2, 2013)

F1EA said:


> Yes. Basically this:
> 
> 
> He rides fwd stance, so a bit difference in shoulder and hip alignment for duck stance people... but overall, same concept.


Am I doing it right?


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

speedjason said:


> Am I doing it right?
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D1WgP2WDQ50


Did you just post your video right after a Xavier dl Rue video? Well that's brave


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## speedjason (May 2, 2013)

F1EA said:


> Did you just post your video right after a Xavier dl Rue video? Well that's brave


Hahahahahahaha


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## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

speedjason said:


> Am I doing it right?
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D1WgP2WDQ50


Right at the 7 sec mark, ur digging in REAL nice on toeside and pressuring the tail and if not for holding the pole, your lead shoulder would have been closed and ready to blast/launch to heelside carve. :jumping1: Damm good for Nebraskan golf course shredding :surprise:


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## chomps1211 (Mar 30, 2011)

F1EA said:


> Did you just post your video right after a Xavier dl Rue video? Well that's brave


Yeah, well.... We *ALL* suck by comparison to Xavier!  :laugh:

We're all a bunch a scaredy cat wusses too for that matter! That dude is _Nuts!!!_ :blink:
:lol:


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## speedjason (May 2, 2013)

wrathfuldeity said:


> Right at the 7 sec mark, ur digging in REAL nice on toeside and pressuring the tail and if not for holding the pole, your lead shoulder would have been closed and ready to blast/launch to heelside carve. :jumping1: Damm good for Nebraskan golf course shredding :surprise:


I gonna see if I can get some new videos this weekend.
I got a longer board and changed up my bindings for a more aggressive highback angle. Gotta get these heel side edge.
Holding a gopro makes things so much weirder. I am gonna try rear hand.


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

speedjason said:


> I gonna see if I can get some new videos this weekend.
> I got a longer board and changed up my bindings for a more aggressive highback angle. Gotta get these heel side edge.
> Holding a gopro makes things so much weirder. I am gonna try rear hand.


Yeah let's see the heelside... that's where the line is drawn 

But agree, the camera pole takes away a lot; specially in respect to body alignment and how you can add power to the turns with the upper body.... in your case, there's only so much power you can add with the slope you're at but if you can get someone else to film you, would be much better.

Also, you bent at the waist at the end. heheh :blahblah:


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## woodhouse (Jan 18, 2013)

So I hit hunter mountain today with the slightly widened stance, getting lower, and keeping my hands tucked.

I felt great, definitely an improvement and feels like I'm now getting to the next step, thankyou all who gave input.

Only thing I noticed today was I left with some knee pain that I normally don't have, maybe lessening the binding angles a tad might help?


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