# The story of my knee.



## boarderaholic (Aug 13, 2007)

Here it goes.

About eight years ago, I had sprained my knee snowboarding. I had fallen on the same impact area multiple times, bruised it, and twisted it funny a few times. The sprain in itself had become bad enough that my knee collapsed and I ended up being put in a big ass knee brace with a hinge, and was on crutches for about three weeks. I was warned to be careful with the joint, because I was at higher risk of developing arthritis in my knee at a later age. 

Fast forward about two years, and the problems started to peek out. It started out with little things like minor swelling and a little bit of discomfort when the weather made drastic changes, IE: Going from +30*C to +15*C, as an example. It would be sore and tender for a couple days leading up to the change, and be fine for months on end. Given enough time, this soreness was becoming more and more frequent. 

Fast forward again another six years, to today, eight years after the initial injury. These past two weeks have been hell. The initial pain started same as before, except that it had become quite a bit more swollen than usual, and the bone on bone grinding sensation was BRUTAL. I had chalked it up that it would go away after a couple days, as usual, and all would be well. 

Two weeks later, that is not the case at all. The swelling has become worse, and the bone on bone grinding sensation hasn't gone away at all. The discomfort/pain has become so bad that stuff like walking up and down stairs can be incredibly painful, and even stuff like swimming and biking is no longer a source of pain relief. 

So, here I am today. I went to the clinic this morning to see what the story was, and have been written a recommendation to go to the sports place thingy to get an MRI for my knee, and to start physio ASAP as well. As such, I'm quite scared right now because words like "arthro" were getting thrown around during the conversation with my doctor this morning. 

With that being said, I'm going to book a physio appointment, and schedule an MRI on Monday, and will update this post as things progress.


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## linvillegorge (Jul 6, 2009)

Could be something serious, but could also be something as simple as needing to get it scoped to clean out some loose cartilage - which could explain why they're throwing around the word "arthro". "Scoping" a knee is the common terminology for arthroscopic surgery. If that's the case, you'll miss WROD season, but be good to go by the time the season actually gets going.


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## boarderaholic (Aug 13, 2007)

linvillegorge said:


> Could be something serious, but could also be something as simple as needing to get it scoped to clean out some loose cartilage.


I hope it's the latter, and not the former. 

But, first things first, get an MRI, and go from there.


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

Man that sucks. (Actually, girl that sucks)

I'm fortunate my big knee injury happened when i was still young ~17 y/o (wow like 20 yrs ago!! Damn)... Mine was a full patellar tendon tear. Pretty much as hardcore as it can get for the knee. Recovered in about 1yr with phisio.

I do get some little bone-bone grinding and a bit of discomfort every once in a while and definitely i've been trying to take good are of it: ride icy park as little as possible... wear a brace with lateral support whenever i skate/longboard/snowboard.... no big cliff drops, etc. At my age, a similar injury would mean lots of pain and for a looong time.

So... good luck. And listen to the doctors. A few months sidelined and doing proper treatment and therapy will go a long ways in keeping you on a board for many more yrs.


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## radiomuse210 (Sep 5, 2014)

Good luck - hope it's a simple fix. I worry about stuff like that - i injured my knee last summer in a car accident. It was just a sprain with some swelling and bruising. But sometimes that knee can feel a little "weak" when exercising. Like if I'm doing some exercises where most of my weight is balanced on one leg, then the other, the "bad" knee will get fatigued and sore sooner than the good knee. And my balance isn't as good on that knee. But no swelling or real pain at any time. I also know a guy who was in a car accident but at the time didn't have anything wrong except soreness in his back and neck. Fast forward ten years and he's having surgery in his back - all related to the accident. 

I've gotten off topic...once again, hope it all goes well when you get your MRI.


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## larrytbull (Oct 30, 2013)

If it is any solace to you. The arthroscope is really not so scary, If you follow my older posts, you will see that I went in in the end of august for my knee it was scoped for the second time first time was 6 years ago. It is now mid october, and I am feeling great, knee is strong, and no swelling nor pain. Next year, I will go in for my other knee, it is ready for a new round (scoped 30 years ago) . 

so you still have some time to not lose the whole season if that is an option given to you. 
once you get the MRI you will have a better Idea of what is going on, and how to proceed. they have non surgical options, like PT, Steroid Shot, and or ortho Visc/ Syn Visc. so ask your Dr about what he/she recommends.

Good Luck, and while you are waiting keep the knee iced for 30 minutes at a time, and also try an over the counter NSAID like advil, or aleve they should help bring down the swelling


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## boarderaholic (Aug 13, 2007)

I honestly don't give a shit about losing a few months off of snowboarding season at the rate this pain is going. It's a small price to pay to get whatever is wrong with my knee diagnosed, and fixed. 

And yes, the pain in my knee is making me super cranky right now. I also really don't enjoy stabby things at all.


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## ryannorthcott (Dec 17, 2010)

boarderaholic said:


> I honestly don't give a shit about losing a few months off of snowboarding season at the rate this pain is going. It's a small price to pay to get whatever is wrong with my knee diagnosed, and fixed.
> 
> And yes, the pain in my knee is making me super cranky right now. I also really don't enjoy stabby things at all.


Nothing really to contribute except ouch, I feel your pain and wish you luck getting it fixed up. 
If you are booking physio and don't have a go to therapist, I would HIGHLY recommend Yung at the glen sather clinic at the u of a. She is the best and will really take care of you. One of those people that truly loves her job and helping people. 

Other than that, good luck! Had my first joint injury this past spring and can say it was no fun at all


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## francium (Jan 12, 2013)

just out of interest is the pain below the kneecap?


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## boarderaholic (Aug 13, 2007)

francium said:


> just out of interest is the pain below the kneecap?


Nope. Side of the knee.


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## koi (May 16, 2013)

linvillegorge said:


> Could be something serious, but could also be something as simple as needing to get it scoped to clean out some loose cartilage - which could explain why they're throwing around the word "arthro". "Scoping" a knee is the common terminology for arthroscopic surgery. If that's the case, you'll miss WROD season, but be good to go by the time the season actually gets going.


Dude, that sucks. my initial thought, like linvillegorge, was a cartilage issue, because you said "bone on bone." I hope that I am wrong and you don't have to go through a surgery. Whatever happens i recommend following the physical therapy exercises, they helped me a lot. 

I have knee issues also, a dumb driver hit me in a crosswalk, and ever since I have had problems. I used to get steroid injections in my knee every six months to help with the pain, but that is a process that progressively helps less and less. I have since stopped the injections, and been a little more careful with impact sports. Snowboarding is my one vice that can cause me extreme discomfort. A hard day of riding can cause me pain and limping for days.


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## jml22 (Apr 10, 2012)

Pain on which side? Inside or outside


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## boarderaholic (Aug 13, 2007)

jml22 said:


> Pain on which side? Inside or outside


Pain is on the outside.


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## jml22 (Apr 10, 2012)

Just wait for the MRI results and stuff it that comes back clear i can give you some advice on how to rehab out of something like that. 
Don't be scared of words like arthro it just means joint/joint related.
Don't be scared of scope surgeries to, knee ones are pretty breezy these days.

What i'm thinking is that you didn't recover correctly from the original injury and it's happening again with a little bit of knee stability. The MRI won't show something like that but it will show if you have any existing tears or degeneration. Also it will show if it's something more serious that is completely unrelated to "injury"

Just relax and it'll all work out. Just make sure you get a copy of the report and a copy of the disk so if you need to go get a second opinion you have it all ready.

Also don't hesitate to PM with questions, i've helped a few people recover from injuries on this forum


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## linvillegorge (Jul 6, 2009)

Both of my knees are pretty much bone on bone with a ton of slop in the joints. You know it's bad when they make physical therapists cringe.

Fuck it. When they're bothering me, I just drink an extra beer that day.

Don't take my advice.


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## snowklinger (Aug 30, 2011)

My good homie just got his knee scoped this summer and is super happy to get back on the white stuff.

Interested to hear what it is, hopefully easy.

Lol Lgeezy


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

Chin up! Many knee problems can be solved. Hub had his knees ruined during military services. Bone on bone, constant pain. After surgery on both, he plays squash n soccer and snowboards again painfree. The sound they make when he bends lets me shiver, but they seem to work .

Hope the MRI shows an easy to solve cause! Good luck.


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## PalmerFreak (Jul 13, 2009)

boarderaholic said:


> I honestly don't give a shit about losing a few months off of snowboarding season at the rate this pain is going. It's a small price to pay to get whatever is wrong with my knee diagnosed, and fixed.


I was in the same boat last year as you are now. The inside of my right knee had always hurt some towards the end of the season (it was a dull pain, nothing sharp) but once I stopped riding for a month or two the pain went away. After last season the pain didn't go away and got progressively worse to the point where I couldn't ignore it any longer. Initial diagnosis was arthritis which my regular doc said showed up on the X-ray. Went to the ortho doc and he felt like it was a meniscus tear and not arthritis which I was happy to hear - surgery can relieve the pain of a meniscus tear but arthritis is with you for life. At that point I could still ride pretty much pain free but it really bothered me after I got home and I had to ice the hell out of it. We were having such a good season I figured I'd put off the MRI and surgery until spring. By the time I got towards the end of December I couldn't walk without a limp and the pain was getting to the point where I just wanted to get it fixed even if I missed the majority of the season. I called and made an appointment to get the MRI which showed a bucket handle tear of the medial meniscus. The doc said we could try rehab but that it may be months before we find out if it is successful. I'm on my feet for my job quite a bit and the prospect of several more months of the pain I was feeling didn't appeal to me. I went in and had it scoped in January (surgery took all of 16 minutes) and they removed 25% of my medial meniscus. I did all of the little rehab exercises that they recommended and was back on my board 20 days after the surgery. Getting back on the hill that fast after surgery probably wasn't the smartest thing I ever did as it took longer for me knee to feel right but it feels great right now and I'm stoked for the upcoming season. 

From what little I know about the knee, it's much more common to have medial meniscus tears (inside of knee) than lateral meniscus tears (outside of knee) so maybe arthritis or an LCL issue is in play. I did feel a slight grinding sensation on the inside of my knee when the piece of meniscus that was torn would move around between the femur and tibia. If it is a meniscus issue they can repair tears if it is towards the outer edge where there is sufficient blood flow. If the tear is on the inside where there isn't blood flow they just remove the damaged tissue as in my case. The recovery time for my procedure compared to a repair is quite a bit shorter but I'd rather have 100% of my meniscus instead of 75%. 

Several peeps around here have been dealing with arthritic knees for quite some time and there are ways to manage the pain and swelling. I know that scoping my knee makes me more likely to get arthritis at some point in the future but if I can push it off for several more years of pain-free riding I'll gladly take it. 

I hope that whatever they find is minor and you can get back to full strength as soon as possible. I stressed about the surgery quite a bit (I'd never had any type of surgery in my life before the knee scope) but it was a piece of cake and I felt so much better once it was all over with.


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## boarderaholic (Aug 13, 2007)

jml22 said:


> Just wait for the MRI results and stuff it that comes back clear i can give you some advice on how to rehab out of something like that.
> Don't be scared of words like arthro it just means joint/joint related.
> Don't be scared of scope surgeries to, knee ones are pretty breezy these days.
> 
> ...


Thanks. I'm definitely hoping it's not a big of a deal as I think it is. 

On that note though, seeing as I don't have an MRI or anything like that schedule yet, should I go see my physical therapist anyway, or wait until the scan has been done? 

Also, should I go see a PT that specializes in sports, or can I get away with my regular therapist?


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## larrytbull (Oct 30, 2013)

get MRI as Soon as possible. It will help therapist as well as Dr. to understand what is really going on in knee, without that information they are just guessing what you need. I would make MRI the first priority


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

larrytbull said:


> get MRI as Soon as possible. It will help therapist as well as Dr. to understand what is really going on in knee, without that information they are just guessing what you need. I would make MRI the first priority


This ^ 

Nobody knows shit until they can see an MRI. Most insurance would like you to wait and wait to delay the MRI and maybe save/defer costs at the expense of your pain and hassle... but an MRI will expedite everything.


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## boarderaholic (Aug 13, 2007)

larrytbull said:


> get MRI as Soon as possible. It will help therapist as well as Dr. to understand what is really going on in knee, without that information they are just guessing what you need. I would make MRI the first priority





F1EA said:


> This ^
> 
> Nobody knows shit until they can see an MRI. Most insurance would like you to wait and wait to delay the MRI and maybe save/defer costs at the expense of your pain and hassle... but an MRI will expedite everything.


That's what I figured. Thanks!


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## jml22 (Apr 10, 2012)

You want to find someone good for something like this or else pure going to get a lot of e stim ice and hear done with this
I would go see someone first and see if an MRI is even needed. 
A good history an exam will determine the need for an MRI. MRI would be to rule in or out anything more serious. 

If there is nothing serious this problem is almost 100% hip rehab and proper hip mechanics


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## boarderaholic (Aug 13, 2007)

Quick update, I ended up getting a requisition for an MSK ultra sound, so that has been booked for December 8. I also ended up stopping by the PT office today and have an appointment with a therapist for next Thursday as well. The pain in my knee has been getting worse day by day, and it is now to the point where icing has been of minimal help.


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## chomps1211 (Mar 30, 2011)

I wish you luck. I hope you get a fix for that figured out real soon! :thumbsup:


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## larrytbull (Oct 30, 2013)

jml22 said:


> You want to find someone good for something like this or else pure going to get a lot of e stim ice and hear done with this
> I would go see someone first and see if an MRI is even needed.
> A good history an exam will determine the need for an MRI. MRI would be to rule in or out anything more serious.
> 
> If there is nothing serious this problem is almost 100% hip rehab and proper hip mechanics


I found that putting on my knee brace (don joy reaction brace) has been helping me a little today.


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## jml22 (Apr 10, 2012)

If you are getting some relief with a brace like that it could mean you have an unstable knee. 
You would have to do a lot of hip strengthening to fix that. Would have to be sure te ligaments are intact too or you will only get so far. Regardless rehab is needed so I suggest trying that first before a surgery. Prehab increases post surgical results anyways so it can't hurt


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## dsdavis (Mar 15, 2014)

Sorry to hear about the pain, boarderaholic! December 8th is a *really* long time away considering the amount of pain you're in! I think I'd be pushing really hard for a sooner appointment!

I hope you get some relief quickly!


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## snowklinger (Aug 30, 2011)

boarderaholic said:


> Quick update, I ended up getting a requisition for an MSK ultra sound, so that has been booked for *December 8*. I also ended up stopping by the PT office today and have an appointment with a therapist for next Thursday as well. The pain in my knee has been getting worse day by day, and it is now to the point where icing has been of minimal help.


Gotta love that healthcare. (thats not even political, its just a funny version [funny to me anyway] of the wool the powers that be constantly pull over our eyes to sell us shit that is meaningless and make us argue about things that don't matter). When Obamacare was ramping up you couldn't swing a dead hippy without smashing into someone with one of the 2 following comments:

1. Hooray free medical care just like Canada where everything is awesome and free and awesome!

2. Did you know that in Canada, it takes more than 10 months to schedule a baby delivery?! They are so fucked! Its going to happen to us! Babies born on subways! Dudes running around saying "eh". Canadian Apocalypse!

At least you aren't in much pain right?










too soon?


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## chomps1211 (Mar 30, 2011)

dsdavis said:


> Sorry to hear about the pain, boarderaholic! December 8th is a *really* long time away considering the amount of pain you're in! I think I'd be pushing really hard for a sooner appointment!
> 
> I hope you get some relief quickly!





snowklinger said:


> ….Did you know that in Canada, it takes more than 10 months to schedule a baby delivery?! They are so fucked! Its going to happen to us! Babies born on subways! Dudes running around saying "eh". Canadian Apocalypse!
> 
> At least you aren't in much pain right?
> 
> ...


Boarderaholic,.. Sorry to hear you are not doing well!

Well, with my health insurance & workman's comp, It took 2 months while I was in such agony I could barely stay conscious! Surgeons spend all their time in _surgery_, Strangely enough. Mine were only available two days of the week and only one of those days was in his office that was in my city! 

So,.. If you miss the one or two days they're available to see you? No choice but to wait another week! Etc, etc!

I finally got a second opinion the day before my scheduled surgery with my first surgeon. _THIS_ surgeon was so concerned about the agony he could see I was in,.. he told me to check into the ER, tell them I was his patient, and he would squeeze me into his schedule!

I cancelled my surgery with the first guy, and did just that!

Boarderaholic,..? If you are not happy with your doc, can you go for a second opinion? You shouldn't have to live in agony for months before getting some relief!


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## boarderaholic (Aug 13, 2007)

Okok, so an update on all of this, I ended booking an appt with my PT, and went to see her last week. 

Without current x-rays and scans and what not, there is no definitely answer, duh. However, she suspects that I've got pretty severe arthritis in my knee. 

Apparently, at some point, my family doctor schedule me to see a specialist for Nov. 28. I'm going to call the office on Monday to see if I can get in sooner. Even after RICE-ing and ibuprofen, it's still pretty swollen, but just not as stiff. 

My hips are starting to hurt from gimping up how I walk. I have been manually flexing my knee, and that helps, sort of. 

On the topic of Canadian health care, for what it is, I'm pretty ok with waiting, though I do wish the government would stop pissing away my money on petty shit and put more into things that count, like health care and education instead of a stupid half a billion dollar arena.


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## jml22 (Apr 10, 2012)

How old are you?


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## chomps1211 (Mar 30, 2011)

jml22 said:


> How old are you?


 :eyetwitch2: :facepalm3: :storm:


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## boarderaholic (Aug 13, 2007)

jml22 said:


> How old are you?


Theoretically not old enough for arthritis.


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## larrytbull (Oct 30, 2013)

boarderaholic said:


> Okok, so an update on all of this, I ended booking an appt with my PT, and went to see her last week.
> 
> Without current x-rays and scans and what not, there is no definitely answer, duh. However, she suspects that I've got pretty severe arthritis in my knee.
> 
> ...


if it is arthritis, a brace would help you. you may want to go to the local pharmacy and see if they have a decent brace, with an open patella area'wear it for a few days even when sleeping, see if it helps pain


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## jml22 (Apr 10, 2012)

Garbage diagnosis.
Such a garbage diagnosis. 
Message me, we'll talk and i'll point you towards some good practitioners


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## boarderaholic (Aug 13, 2007)

Just a quick update on this. I went and saw my Doctor this morning, she did a quick exam and thinks that most of the pain and swelling I'm experiencing is from an insanely weak and tight IT band. She hasn't had me adjust the work out program I'm on from my therapist, so I'm assuming that's a good thing. She did prescribe me what seems to be pretty potent pain and anti-inflammatories though. 

With that being said, I did still get the x-rays done on my knees, and am still going to be getting the ultrasound done to make sure there are no floaty bits in the joint.


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## chomps1211 (Mar 30, 2011)

Proly shouldn't be pushing snowbound idiots out of intersections! Nice Karma, but not good for the knees!


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## boarderaholic (Aug 13, 2007)

chomps1211 said:


> Proly shouldn't be pushing snowbound idiots out of intersections! Nice Karma, but not good for the knees!


Haha I know. My knee is pissed. I would have left her, but she was in my way of me being able to safely make the left turn.


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## andrewdod (Mar 24, 2013)

boarderaholic said:


> Theoretically not old enough for arthritis.


ehhh, i call bullshit! I'm 20 with arthritic knees, ankles, and shoulders. Now 15 years of football and a partially torn MCL (It naturally healed since it was partial) doesn't help... 

Best things I can say is keep seeing your physician... and push him for an MRI... He can't tell you no if you feel it is necessary.

as far as at home treatment, i'd advise a lot of stretching. Also pick up one of those foam rollers. You can get them on amazon for like 20 bucks i think. Flexibility always helps these kind of injuries. Also work on strengthening your hips. All the muscles in your legs are connected so fixing one wont help the situation you gotta fix them all.


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## boarderaholic (Aug 13, 2007)

Yeehaw. Good news. After a lot of physio and some prescription strength anti-inflammatories, it looks like things are going back to normal. It seems as if the cause of the pain was a super tight IT band. As for what caused *that* I don't know. I talked to my therapist yesterday, and he said to give snowboarding a try this weekend, which I'm going to do and see how that goes.


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

Hurray! :cheer:


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## Mig Fullbag (Apr 15, 2014)

Stoked for you Boarderaholic!!! :jumping1:


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## trapper (Jan 15, 2013)

boarderaholic said:


> Yeehaw. Good news. After a lot of physio and some prescription strength anti-inflammatories, it looks like things are going back to normal. It seems as if the cause of the pain was a super tight IT band. As for what caused *that* I don't know. I talked to my therapist yesterday, and he said to give snowboarding a try this weekend, which I'm going to do and see how that goes.


My IT bands are the root cause of many of my lower body issues. I started having improvement after stretching and foam rolling daily. GOOD LUCK!


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## boarderaholic (Aug 13, 2007)

Mig Fullbag said:


> Stoked for you Boarderaholic!!! :jumping1:


Thanks mig et all!! 

A little birdie told me you've been making snowboards as well? Any truth to that?


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## Mig Fullbag (Apr 15, 2014)

boarderaholic said:


> Thanks mig et all!!
> 
> A little birdie told me you've been making snowboards as well? Any truth to that?


Completely true! Four models, and two of them available in two lengths. Fully directional boards. Don't want to derail this thread by posting pics and info, but you can see them on the Fullbag site, on Fullbag's Facebook page, and on Instagram @fullbag.


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