# Help wanted - Flow heel lift



## sonofanarchy (Sep 19, 2017)

Bindings are maybe too wide for your boot. So you have to strap in real tight to (almost) make it work. I wear size 10 and changed my binding to M (had L) just for that reason.


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## ZeMax (Feb 21, 2014)

sonofanarchy said:


> Bindings are maybe too wide for your boot. So you have to strap in real tight to (almost) make it work. I wear size 10 and changed my binding to M (had L) just for that reason.


K2 thraxis are super bulky. No sideplay. Thanks for taking a pitch at it.


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## Donutz (May 12, 2010)

Can you post some pix? My first feeling is that you've got a binding far too large for your boot, but I'd rather get a visual before throwing spaghetti against the wall.


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## ZeMax (Feb 21, 2014)

Donutz said:


> Can you post some pix? My first feeling is that you've got a binding far too large for your boot, but I'd rather get a visual before throwing spaghetti against the wall.


Will have to get back to you on the week-end/monday on that one. Board is in the internet enabled zone and the boots are at the hill in the blacked out zone.


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## ZeMax (Feb 21, 2014)

@Donutzin the meantime mind throwing some spaghetti my way in the form of a quick checklist ? Typical worst offenders ?


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## Donutz (May 12, 2010)

ZeMax said:


> @Donutzin the meantime mind throwing some spaghetti my way in the form of a quick checklist ? Typical worst offenders ?


TBH, I have no experience with Flow heel lift, and I've been using Flows on one board or another since 2009. But visualizing it, the only way I can see to get heel lift is if the strap is either too loose, or too far down the boot (towards the toes). Or the binding is actually broken, which I figure you would have noticed.

For the strap to be too far down towards the toes, you'd have to be putting a medium boot in an extra-large binding.

All of which seems obvious, so there must be something else at play. Thus the request for the pix. Or even a video.


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

ZeMax said:


> So I've decided to give flow another try and got myself a pair of Fuse-GT size large to go with my K2 Thraxis size 10.5 boot.
> 
> I cannot prevent the rear boot from getting heel lift in the binding. My boots are very well fitted and the rear portion of the boot have the scar to prove that it is moving... a whoe lot unless I crank those sucker really tight.
> 
> ...


Hi,

Did you get the Fusion or Hybrid strap? Please do post up some images. Thanks.


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## ZeMax (Feb 21, 2014)

Fusion strap, at work right now and cannot get pictures until monday :sad:

Was hoping to get pointers on thing to try for the week-end. O well.

I absolutely understand the need for the pictures. Keyboard troubleshooting ain't easy.


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## Argo (Feb 25, 2010)

You likely dont have them set up properly. Either that or the boots are a poor design match for the flows. Make sure they strap is snug on the boots when the highback is engaged... even then with the fusion strap it can get loose. The toe to heel engagement of the hybrid is far superior...

I have used flows for 10+ years and went to flow boots near the beginning of it all. 

I like the hybrid strap better for boot hold. I haven't used a power/fusion strap since they built the hybrid w/nasty system.


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## ZeMax (Feb 21, 2014)

Argo said:


> You likely dont have them set up properly. Either that or the boots are a poor design match for the flows.


Keeping my finger crossed the first sentence is the issue. I hear what you are saying about the hybrid straps but carving chews trough toe straps so fast. The hybrid strap will have to wait until I can get my hand on a knapton Twin or some other board with no overhang. Stupid big feet.


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## t21 (Dec 29, 2010)

Have you tried to back off your forward lean a bit ,then crank down a little bit on the ankle side of your strap? My flows are all large size but i wear sz.9 now from sz.10, do not have any issues regarding heel lift.


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## Ben Delisle (Dec 7, 2018)

I'm having the same problem with my fuse gt's. I just got my hands on the hybrid straps so I'm hoping that helps.


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

Ben Delisle said:


> I'm having the same problem with my fuse gt's. I just got my hands on the hybrid straps so I'm hoping that helps.


That is rarely the issue. Hybrid straps work fine but you should be getting no notable heel lift (boot in binding) from either strap. Please post up images of your setup.


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## BoardieK (Dec 21, 2015)

Try easing off the toe ratchet a couple of clicks and tightening the ankle strap up. I have the same binding with Flow Hylite boots and find the fusion strap "rocks" slightly on the boot. The boots toe never feels loose but sometimes I notice the same thing with the heel and just change the bias of the fusion strap.


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## Ben Delisle (Dec 7, 2018)

I cant post images straight from my phone, is there an alternative way to get pics up for you?


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

You can post images anywhere online and link to them. STOKED!


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## ZeMax (Feb 21, 2014)

Picture time here we go !


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## ZeMax (Feb 21, 2014)

Wait a minute....There's MORE !


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## ZeMax (Feb 21, 2014)

Whoever helps me solve this gets a free lift Ticket at Val Saint-Côme :grin:


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

ZeMax said:


> Whoever helps me solve this gets a free lift Ticket at Val Saint-Côme :grin:


Hi,

Your current setup has removed most contact at the heel cup from the boot. Essentially the only part of the highback contacting your boot is the pad at the top. You have set your forward lean to significantly exceed that forward lean of your boot. This will not effectively increase The forward lean of your riding position, it will only reduce binding contact with the boot. I would also suggest that you put the binding back in its smaller position. That will allow the ankle ratchet to pull down more than than pulling back.


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## ZeMax (Feb 21, 2014)

Already running Full forward lean.

Alright will try setting the heel cup back to small. How about the cable position ? leave as is ? go down one or two notches ?

Can't thank you enough for doing this.


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

ZeMax said:


> Already running Full forward lean.


Yes, this is part of the problem. You have set the forward lean of the binding to exceed the forward lean of your boot. This does not achieve greater realized forward lean. It only decreases the surface of binding in contact with the rear of the boot which in turn reduces heel hold. You want to allow your heel to move back into the heel cup. You should relax the forward lean of the binding so that the highback angle is the same as the forward lean angle of your boot.

STOKED!


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## ZeMax (Feb 21, 2014)

Wiredsport said:


> Yes, this is part of the problem. You have set the forward lean of the binding to exceed the forward lean of your boot. This does not achieve greater realized forward lean. It only decreases the surface of binding in contact with the rear of the boot which in turn reduces heel hold. You want to allow your heel to move back into the heel cup. You should relax the forward lean of the binding so that the highback angle is the same as the forward lean angle of your boot.
> 
> STOKED!


Ah ok ! something got lost in the translation the first time. 

And I just realised my cable position question was dumb. The thing moves with the hihback right ?


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

ZeMax said:


> Ah ok ! something got lost in the translation the first time.
> 
> And I just realised my cable position question was dumb. The thing moves with the hihback right ?


The cable (in part) adjusts the highback angle. Tensioning the cable increases forward angle.


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## ZeMax (Feb 21, 2014)

I meant the 3 position slider thingy on the base plate. Not the screwythingy on the highback.


My new signature should be "Mastery of the English language....you're doing it ....right ? " working hard on it !


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

ZeMax said:


> I meant the 3 position slider thingy on the base plate. Not the screwythingy on the highback.
> 
> 
> My new signature should be "Mastery of the English language....you're doing it ....right ? " working hard on it !


Yes, that is similar. Increasing cable tension increases highback lean.


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## Scalpelman (Dec 5, 2017)

Wiredsport said:


> Yes, this is part of the problem. You have set the forward lean of the binding to exceed the forward lean of your boot. This does not achieve greater realized forward lean. It only decreases the surface of binding in contact with the rear of the boot which in turn reduces heel hold. You want to allow your heel to move back into the heel cup. You should relax the forward lean of the binding so that the highback angle is the same as the forward lean angle of your boot.
> 
> STOKED!




Good stuff. I was having a similar problem with forward lean and heel lift.


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## ZeMax (Feb 21, 2014)

So I see, my biggest mistake was that I my highback should be parallel to my boot cuff and not tilted forward like on my other bindings. I usually run lots of forward lean for max heelside carvination mojo.

My boot is quite big. I wonder why the have that "large setting" on the binding if we still need to run small.


Can't wait to try the new setting on the slope.


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

ZeMax said:


> So I see, my biggest mistake was that I my highback should be parallel to my boot cuff and not tilted forward like on my other bindings. I usually run lots of forward lean for max heelside carvination mojo.
> 
> My boot is quite big. I wonder why the have that "large setting" on the binding if we still need to run small.
> 
> ...


It is really true of all bindings. Flows can look a little different as the highback pad is quite pronounced. Have a look at it to assure that it looks like your hatchback is matching the contours of your boot back up and down and that your heel is back in the heel pocket. 

If you exceed the forward lean of your boot with the highback with any binding then you need to flex the boot forward, wiggle the boot back (if possible - often it is not) so that you have contact with the back of the binding at the heel cup and then strap in securely so that the heel does not slide forward. This has to be done while standing and it can be awkward. It does not work well when there is tight contact to the sides of the boot.


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## t21 (Dec 29, 2010)

Saw the pics and Wiredsport is right,you have to much gap between your heel cup and the back of your boot. Move the heelcup up and the cable to the small and adjust from there. You can put your hand inside your boot and press down on your boot like its your leg and check it until satisfied on your setting. Goodluck!


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## ZeMax (Feb 21, 2014)

Great improvement was achieved last week-end but perfection as not been reached. More fiddling required.

There is hope.

Thank you guys


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## eelpout (Mar 1, 2009)

ZeMax said:


> Great improvement was achieved last week-end but perfection as not been reached. More fiddling required.
> 
> There is hope.


old thread. don't care.

curious ZeMax if you ever stuck with the Flows? I had a similar problem with my NX2 CX's in that my 28.5 K2' Maysis are bulky and wide and would constantly rub against the frame and the "pivot" bolts with an L, so Nidecker said I should stick with the XL's. The only compromise besides a little bit of heel lift is having to slide the binding forward some to compensate for heel overhang.

(I've tried Flow boots, but never were happy with them and my skinny ankles for heel hold)


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## Snow Hound (Jul 21, 2012)

@ZeMax posted only a few weeks ago so he may well be back to fill you in.


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## ZeMax (Feb 21, 2014)

Weird ! Let me explain: pretty much gave up on them in 2019. Then exactly 2 week-ends ago I gave them another try. Now I get tagged here 
I am so close to be 100% happy with them using size Large with K2 Thraxis. @Nivek just gave me how he sets his:
"
Adjusting Flows:
Start with the high back. With all the straps loose get the forward lean to match your boots, this is key to ensure the in and out is smooth.
With the high back forward lean dialed, keep your boot tight to the high back and tighten down the heel ladder strap. Keep things centered or biased to the outside.
Now tighten down the toe portion. Same for this, center it.
Strap tightness just needs to be snug. Too tight and you won’t get in.
If you’re in hybrids do the big toe strap last and just flush it to your boot.
Hybrid or fusion the key to keeping your boot heel down is the ankle tightness. And if your toe is too tight before adjusting the heel, you won’t get it snug to your boot in the right position." - end quote.

So will do a little more fine tuning

Yeah having the pivot point chew into the side of the back boot is something I'll have to learn to live with. It's an ok trade off not destroying 2-3 toe caps per seasons (not that bad) and not having the dreaded heelcup hitting the steeps while carving (that one is bad).


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