# First "Mostly-pow" board



## WTF (Oct 18, 2014)

Hi,

Im 30/m 5'7 165, boot size 9.5-10. 

It's my 7th year snowboading, and I ride about 10 days a year mostly in the western alps (France, Austria).

Im not a park guy. I have to fly to europe, so nowdays I try to aim at as much pow as I can, but it's not always successfull. I only ever had one non-rental board, a 156 rome mod 08, coupled with rome 390 bindings and rome folsom boots. 

Last year we had a sick 10 day vacation in Serre chevalier, we got so much snow it was almost impossible to get out of the apartment. I realised 2 things - first thing is I like offpiste/powder riding more than any other form, an two - my board isn't good for me.

It was very hard for me to float and took a lot of effort and setback stance as this boad has no rocker, I wasn't fast enough, and got stuck on traverses - probably because of the missing rocker and the board being flexible, short, and slim - unlike myself - so i decided that i must get a new board, and we'll see about the rest of the setup.

One thing about me is I hate ice, but sometimes it's a necessary evil - so something like magnatraction is also a good idea.

I want a board that floats, with good edge hold, fast, and something where it's not impossible to ride switch on a traverse or landing. i do like to ride between treed so easy turning is also a plus.

the options i'm considering are:
159 Lib tech la nina
160 Jones all mountain twin

I have heared good things about the Jones hovercraft, yes PYL as well.

Which is the best choice? What's my next board? (budget is ~500usd, flexibe)

also - how important it is for me to change the rest of the setup?


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## Bamfboardman (Dec 11, 2012)

WTF said:


> Hi,
> 
> Im 30/m 5'7 165, boot size 9.5-10.
> 
> ...


I ride a Mountain twin and its not the best float. It's really fun in less than a foot but anything more just becomes a chore. The Burton Flight Attendant would be a good option, also the Jones Flagship would be good. I don't have any experience with Lib tech boards so I can't advise you on those.


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## kosmoz (Dec 27, 2013)

Salomon Sick Stick, K2 Ultra Dream...


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

I never ride switch, thus see this more as a question: riding a Flag with its short stiff tail switch in a pow traverse...? got doubts if that's a good idea. Same with the Hovy. 

However, in forward direction, both are great boards in pow. Hovy is less fun on groomers IMO (bit coarse). Anyway, if switch in pow is a prerequisite, I can't imagine that they're good options.


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## cav0011 (Jan 4, 2009)

Jones Flagship, Lib Tech la nina, Lib Tech FunDAMNental, Bataleon Omni, Lib Tech Speedodeeps, Burton Trick Pony, Burton Juice Wagon, Burton Landlord, Burton Flight Attendant, I was considering listing options from all brands but decided to stop, basically there are a million options for that type of board.

I would look for something with a little bit of taper, some setback, and a bit of rocker. I would definately not go with the mountain twin.


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## cav0011 (Jan 4, 2009)

Also there is basically no board that is impossible to ride and land switch. Its just a matter of getting used to it. 

Since you say you are not into park I would be stunned if you are landing anything big switch (greater than 10') So pretty much anything will work.


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## TLN (Sep 7, 2010)

cav0011 said:


> Also there is basically no board that is impossible to ride and land switch. Its just a matter of getting used to it.


Swallowtail may be?  
perferct board for mostly pow, and they're surprisingly good on groomers.


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## Ravaging Rami (Mar 11, 2014)

I use a T rice pro and the magnetraction makes a huge difference on midwest ice. The hybrid profile floats really easily. I would say anything by Lib with a rocker in the nose will good for pow. If want something that you can ride switch easily with, I would get either a T rice for it's stiffer all-mountain feel or a speedodeeps if you want Lib. I'm not that familiar with Jones, but I have looked at a hovercraft before. I personally would not try jump and land switch with it, since it would be less stable with the stubby end in front. It really all depends on how big you are going, the T rice will give you more versatility since it's twin tip (see Travis Rice ride it in "Art of Flight"  ) but a more powder-specific board will surf the deep better.


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## cav0011 (Jan 4, 2009)

TLN said:


> Swallowtail may be?
> perferct board for mostly pow, and they're surprisingly good on groomers.


Not really. I landed my camel toe switch and rode switch a ton. It's not any harder than regular riding. Admittedly it does screw with your head a bit and in powder it's not fun but there is no reason to do more than a second or two switch on a swallow tail in powder


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## francium (Jan 12, 2013)

love my hovercraft can ride it switch on groomers although can't say i've tried in powder, if you need something that will ride switch and float ok the travis rice pro is pretty good, if you can find a 2013 mountain twin that did have a bit of setback unlike this years so worth a look.


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## TLN (Sep 7, 2010)

cav0011 said:


> Not really. I landed my camel toe switch and rode switch a ton. It's not any harder than regular riding. Admittedly it does screw with your head a bit and in powder it's not fun but there is no reason to do more than a second or two switch on a swallow tail in powder


Camel-toe looks like some deplumed swallow-tail to me  
I'm talking about winterstick or prior swallow with longer tail. Well I've ridden mine swallows switch, but that was my "reverse gear", not riding. 
I believe you can do a switch-riding on something like this. Even I can do if after a dozed tries, but as you mentioned no reason for that. 

OP stated, he got no plans on riding switch, so why not to get a proper pow-board? 

BTW, the one thing from my experiece: the more werid-shape board you get - more fun you'll have in proper conditions. Winterstick, Euphoria, furberg - all of this means tons of fun in pow. And better use something different for non-pow though.


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## ekb18c (Mar 11, 2013)

How come no one has said anything about the Burton Fish or Fishcuit?

Oh you want to ride switch.. nevermind on the fish..


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## Snow Hound (Jul 21, 2012)

You'll be lucky to see those epic conditions again in the next 10 years in Europe. Japan yes. North America probably. I get 3 trips to the Alps per year, probably 20 days so I'm in the same boat. I picked up a PYL for this season and will pair it with something shorter and a little softer as I'm working on ground tricks and will take a run through the park if it's there. Both just either side of the 'all mountain meridian' though. Maybe try one of the many boads bang in middle. CRC floats pretty well - Lib TRS or NS SL for example, there are plenty.


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## linvillegorge (Jul 6, 2009)

What Snow Hound said. If you're primarily just making one or two trips a year, I wouldn't bother with a dedicated powder board. Go with something all mountain oriented that still handles pow well. Not sure how things are on that side of the pond, but here in the states you can always just demo a pow board if you get lucky and get a deep day.


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## highme (Dec 2, 2012)

I would go with the PYL. It'll handle the powder fine & won't be too specific for days it's not deep.


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## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

Here are some pretty great boards built almost specifically for your situation. Burton Flight Attendant, K2 Ultra Dream, Ride Alter Ego, Yes PYL, Rome Mtn Division, or an Arbor Coda.


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## cav0011 (Jan 4, 2009)

Nivek said:


> Here are some pretty great boards built almost specifically for your situation. Burton Flight Attendant, K2 Ultra Dream, Ride Alter Ego, Yes PYL, Rome Mtn Division, or an Arbor Coda.


precisely. /thread.


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## GrizzlyBeast (Oct 18, 2014)

You would be extremely lucky to have the same powder experience again...you are better off with a more stable carve oriented freeride board that can perform in the pow when it needs to as someone else above pointed out. 

For me I only ride full cambered boards no matter what. Im 6"2 205 I ride a 163 salomon Burner and it floats no problem in powder. It actually planes up and picks up speed in pow. The burner is super stable, carves awesome and it actually gives back energy and pops out of and into each carve. I bought a Ride Berzerker as a venture into the hybrid world and was extremely disappointed. Yes it floated in pow good when i was at 3mph and it did hold a good edge, but bombing and carving was pathetic in comparison to the full camber monsters ive been on. From my perspective Rocker or any hybrid version of a hard charging freeride board comes up short. Man up and get camber. More camber will be on the market soon since higher level riders are realizing that most hybrid rocker stuff is junk unlessu r going inbetween tight trees in waist deep pow at 3mph.


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

GrizzlyBeast said:


> From my perspective Rocker or any hybrid version of a hard charging freeride board comes up short.


So much conclusion on _all_ hybrids from riding this 1 hybrid model?


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## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

GrizzlyBeast said:


> You would be extremely lucky to have the same powder experience again...you are better off with a more stable carve oriented freeride board that can perform in the pow when it needs to as someone else above pointed out.
> 
> For me I only ride full cambered boards no matter what. Im 6"2 205 I ride a 163 salomon Burner and it floats no problem in powder. It actually planes up and picks up speed in pow. The burner is super stable, carves awesome and it actually gives back energy and pops out of and into each carve. I bought a Ride Berzerker as a venture into the hybrid world and was extremely disappointed. Yes it floated in pow good when i was at 3mph and it did hold a good edge, but bombing and carving was pathetic in comparison to the full camber monsters ive been on. From my perspective Rocker or any hybrid version of a hard charging freeride board comes up short. Man up and get camber. More camber will be on the market soon since higher level riders are realizing that most hybrid rocker stuff is junk unlessu r going inbetween tight trees in waist deep pow at 3mph.


Yes. That's why when Jake Blauvelt designed the Alter Ego he made it full camber. And Jones with full reign on his designs only uses full camber. And when Burton lets Nico and Terje design "pro models" they're full camber. Oh and Gigi, introducing his new freeride model he put full camber on it.


Oh wait, every single one of those boards is a hybrid... oops.

You're used to a Burner. One of the stiffest and curviest boards out there. Of course you're going to have a hard time riding hybrid. You ride it differently than riding camber and you're used to ultra camber.


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## GrizzlyBeast (Oct 18, 2014)

Most people dont drop 100ft cliffs into 5 feet of powder. I would suppose Jake Blauvelt would probably need something bouyant or he would just disappear sometimes. 

You should look again into what pros actually ride...not which board the 'pros' are trying to sell. Pros are on camber dude.


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## Phedder (Sep 13, 2014)

GrizzlyBeast said:


> You should look again into what pros actually ride...not which board the 'pros' are trying to sell. Pros are on camber dude.


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## GrizzlyBeast (Oct 18, 2014)

The spectacular freeride snowboards out there are camber snowboards. The best snowboards ever made not too long ago were Palmers. The Nidecker Megalight when it was cambered, Rome Anthem, Nitro Pantera (which happens to be huge in Europe but not Murica for some reason) Salomon Burner, NeverSummer Titan, Neversummer Premier 08 and earlier. These boards absolutely kill it. But what did most of these companies do? They leave their roots and go to some funked up hybrid version to try to keep up with the manufacturer next door. A bunch of sellouts IMO. Except for Nitro Pantera and Rome Anthem which luckily are both still awesome...there isnt any choices for a rider like me who justifiably prefers camber. It would be nice to at least have a camber option on other top brands.

I recently heard about a guy that won some gnarly Red Bull race on an icy steep ass scary mountain. He was on a Nitro Pantera.


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## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

Bro, you're talking about gnarly freeride decks. Which is NOT what the OP is looking for. Wanna talk gnarly camber? Sure lets. Flow Maverick, Arbor A-Frame, Burton Custom X, Ride Highlife, pretty much any Donek, Nitros, K2 Slayblade... They still exist. Roots? Who are you to determine where a brand's roots are? Best snowboards ever made were Palmer? I've never enjoyed a Palmer, the don't fit my style. Oh but wait, I forgot that only you can determine how somebody is supposed to snowboard. Cause if we all rode just like you, we'd agree that everybody sold out making rocker and that Palmer is the end all be all of snowboards. Which Palmer basically went under didn't they? They did. Cause no one wants boards like that anymore. You do justifyably prefer camber, but your justification is PERSONAL PREFERENCE. NOT LAW. 



GrizzlyBeast said:


> Most people dont drop 100ft cliffs into 5 feet of powder. I would suppose Jake Blauvelt would probably need something bouyant or he would just disappear sometimes.
> 
> You should look again into what pros actually ride...not which board the 'pros' are trying to sell. Pros are on camber dude.


A. Your statements seems to be contradictory. First it seems as though you're saying Blauvelt rides rocker for the buoyancy. Then you say "Pros are on camber dude". Not sure what's happening there.

2. Why exactly is pros in quotes while talking about boards they're "trying to sell..."?

III. I'll be sure to tell JG, the Burton engineer who's office is in Craig's, that he was confused when he told me, the regional rep, rep group hauncho, all the sales leads in the area, oh and Dave fucking Downing, after being asked if Nico really rides an off-the-shelf Flight Attendant that yes, he does. Walk into any shop and that's EXACTLY what Nico rides. Who by the way used to ride the T6, Vapor, and T7. Seems as though if he really loved camber that much he'd of made the FA camber.

- I mentioned the Jones and Slash deal. I'll add YES to that. Jones was founded by Jeremy cause no one would offer him the builds and shapes HE wanted to ride. He genuinely rides the boards Jones Snowboards sells at retail. Fact. Gigi, dropped from Uninc, rode for Volcom. Volcom more or less chose what they rode for them based on where the promo and Euro sales boards were being made. I used to make them. Gigi started to want his own stuff made. Originally the board he designed for himself was indeed full camber, it was however the only board in the line as such, and the board he won Ultra Natural on was camrock. Fact. His newest model is dual camber, which he genuinely rides. Fact. YES was the old Uninc crew and the name of the brand speaks to what the brand was for them. They were often told no by Burton and again after they left and looked into other brands. So they started YES. The very first and original board, the Basic, was camrock. Fact. We'll talk about Arbor now too for shits. Visconti before the Coda was redesigned rode that in various sizes for everything. That's full blown rocker. Vine rode the Westmark a hell of a lot and the Shreddy. Both full rocker. Salomon. The Craft is more or less camrock. The two Swedish groms they're pushing are riding those off the rack. Flow, I've had personal conversations with Tim and Basich. Tim prefers the Era and Basich the Drifter. 

Should I go on?

Pro's generally preferring camber dominant rides has always been more or less a given. It's power and responsive and holds up to what they're doing. But plenty of them ride rocker and truly ride the boards you can buy off the shelf.

For the record, I prefer camber.


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## GrizzlyBeast (Oct 18, 2014)

Wow..it seems like you have alot of emotion over the subject Nivek. Thats good...I like that. Let me start off by saying....please dont mention the burton vapor t7 in the same sentence as decent freeride snowboards. I wouldnt blame the guys that were on them moving on to something else. A nitro pantera stomps any of those boards with ease. But Im sure you would find a way to argue with that statement too.

YOu really lost me when you attempted to discredit Palmer. Arent top Palmer freeride considered the same level snowboard as say a Kessler the Ride? Dont boardercross riders prefer the palmer Crown over most anything else? I dont know...i tend to pay attention to tidbits that legit guys in the know throw out there. Im interested in what you have to say too...but Im not getting the feeling that you are on the same knowledge level as others in the industry. 

I love full camber...so I went to the closest hybrid to camber in the Ride Berzerker. It was a terrible board in comparison. I cant imagine what a rocker board would ride like...but from what ive heard and experience for myself im not interested. Even going between trees in icy rutted mugul type situations the berzerker would just bouce all over the place. And I couldnt believe how slow it was. Im not just saying this either. Any of my other top freeride boards would seriously smoke the berzerker. the base was just slow. Maybe Ride should get a durasurf deal like Neversummer has....but theyre more concerned with profit.

Palmer got out because people couldnt afford their high priced decks. I can guarantee you that if Palmer had their crown on the mountain giving test rides competing against current top freeride boards....most people would be going home with the palmer if they could afford it. Thats a guarantee.


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## linvillegorge (Jul 6, 2009)

Ah... the good old "you don't necessarily agree with me, so I'm gonna go ahead and assume you know less."

This should be fun...

When in the fuck will be quit arguing over camber profiles? It's 110% personal preference. Preferring one over another doesn't necessarily make you right or wrong, it's just what YOU prefer.


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## GrizzlyBeast (Oct 18, 2014)

​
Rocker snowboards were being pushed on snowboard shops to sell to beginners who watched X games and wanted to get into snowboarding. They use terms like "catch free edges"...scaring new riders away from camber. Its hiliarious that the opposite is actually true. I can effortlessly bomb a cambered Rome anthem with not a hint of catching an edge on my "contact points" lol. 

The sketchiest board ive been on is the Ride Berzerker. I guess im old school.


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## radiomuse210 (Sep 5, 2014)

God forbid there is any sort of progression within snowboarding. We must all ride the same profile, no matter what kind of riding we are doing, because if you don't then you're just not snowboarding. 

So you prefer camber. Great. But why suggest that anything that isn't camber is less of a board? I haven't ridden every profile out there - still needing to try RCR and flat boards - but I like camber and CRC boards equally - I guess I do have a slight lean towards CRC, but this is preference. I use them for different things, but I wouldn't say that there is something I can do on a camber board that I can't do on a CRC board. Straight rocker hasn't been my cup o' tea, but I haven't had that much experience with rocker boards.


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## linvillegorge (Jul 6, 2009)

GrizzlyBeast said:


> ​
> Rocker snowboards were being pushed on snowboard shops to sell to beginners who watched X games and wanted to get into snowboarding. They use terms like "catch free edges"...scaring new riders away from camber. Its hiliarious that the opposite is actually true. I can effortlessly bomb a cambered Rome anthem with not a hint of catching an edge on my "contact points" lol.
> 
> The sketchiest board ive been on is the Ride Berzerker. I guess im old school.


My god! You can bomb a run on a cambered board without catching an edge and tomahawking yourself into certain death?!

Jesus, man! I bet you struggle not trip over your dick just trying to walk down the sidewalk you manly man you!


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## GrizzlyBeast (Oct 18, 2014)

Like I said earlier..I just want to have an option to buy a freeride camber snowboard from as many manufacturers as possible. I dont care what others want to ride. If you want to ride a rocker go ahead. I enjoy blowing by slow riders on their squirrely rockered boards.

To me perfection was riding my 08 Neversummer premier. Directional fully cambered...super damp, stable and superfast. Good in powder. This same board had almost 5/5 review stars for 9 or so years straight from multitudes of riders. Why would Neversummer not offer a cambered version of their premier in 09? Instead they go straight to their version of reverse rocker...killing alot of the awesome qualities that the cambered version of the Premier had. The original Premier singlehandedly helped build their reputation in a big way so it angered me when they just dropped it. Thats where my anger with this whole bullshit rocker trend stems actually. Way back when everyone had to bitch out and follow suit. 

Im going to give my business to Nitro...since they have kept their Pantera awesome...refining tiny things over the years to make it that much better.


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## radiomuse210 (Sep 5, 2014)

GrizzlyBeast said:


> Like I said earlier..I just want to have an option to buy a freeride camber snowboard from as many manufacturers as possible. I dont care what others want to ride. If you want to ride a rocker go ahead. I enjoy blowing by slow riders on their squirrely rockered boards.
> 
> To me perfection was riding my 08 Neversummer premier. Directional fully cambered...super damp, stable and superfast. Good in powder. This same board had almost 5/5 review stars for 9 or so years straight from multitudes of riders. Why would Neversummer not offer a cambered version of their premier in 09? Instead they go straight to their version of reverse rocker...killing alot of the awesome qualities that the cambered version of the Premier had. The original Premier singlehandedly helped build their reputation in a big way so it angered me when they just dropped it. Thats where my anger with this whole bullshit rocker trend stems actually. Way back when everyone had to bitch out and follow suit.
> 
> Im going to give my business to Nitro...since they have kept their Pantera awesome...refining tiny things over the years to make it that much better.


Go for it - if that's your preference, more power to you. I also think NS should provide different profiles. But there are plenty of brands that offer cambered decks. 
If you get kicks out of flying by people who may choose to go at a more comfortable, cruising speed, well that's a little strange. Someone may not like bombing runs or they may be more of a freestyle rider so they have a board for that purpose. It's not like there's a constant competition for who is fastest on the slopes. And it's odd to me that you are so angry about it. Time to move on. It seems you have found a board and brand that suits you, so what's the problem?


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## jtg (Dec 11, 2012)

doesn't dave downing ride a nug in powder?


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## GrizzlyBeast (Oct 18, 2014)

linvillegorge said:


> My god! You can bomb a run on a cambered board without catching an edge and tomahawking yourself into certain death?!
> 
> Jesus, man! I bet you struggle not trip over your dick just trying to walk down the sidewalk you manly man you!



Im more interested in you commenting on why a rockered board would be promoted as catch free and why people say that that is a benefit over camber. I dont need you to tell me how big my unit is. Typical though....when someone is right...the weaker person goes way off track and tries to make the other person look bad. Textbook stuff. Its mental midget stuff actually.

When people get angry they regress temporarily...this is what youve done. Why are you such an angry person? Seriously...any rational thoughts?


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## GrizzlyBeast (Oct 18, 2014)

radiomuse210 said:


> Go for it - if that's your preference, more power to you. I also think NS should provide different profiles. But there are plenty of brands that offer cambered decks.
> If you get kicks out of flying by people who may choose to go at a more comfortable, cruising speed, well that's a little strange. Someone may not like bombing runs or they may be more of a freestyle rider so they have a board for that purpose. It's not like there's a constant competition for who is fastest on the slopes. And it's odd to me that you are so angry about it. Time to move on. It seems you have found a board and brand that suits you, so what's the problem?



You think its weird that I would enjoy blowing by someone on the slopes? What the hell?


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## linvillegorge (Jul 6, 2009)

GrizzlyBeast said:


> Im more interested in you commenting on why a rockered board would be promoted as catch free and why people say that that is a benefit over camber. I dont need you to tell me how big my unit is. Typical though....when someone is right...the weaker person goes way off track and tries to make the other person look bad. Textbook stuff. Its mental midget stuff actually.
> 
> When people get angry they regress temporarily...this is what youve done. Why are you such an angry person? Seriously...any rational thoughts?


We've just seen this scenario play itself out over and over on this forum. Camber profile fanboys. Rocker this, RC that, no camrock is the shit. It's just completely played out. The most annoying of all though, is the faction you represent - the "if you don't ride traditional camber, you ain't shit" faction.

It's personal preference, nothing more nothing less. Every profile has it's advantages and disadvantages. But, you can't convince those who are guzzling the koolaid of that.


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## jtg (Dec 11, 2012)

I do agree that I've caught way more edges on non-camber dominant boards. I've never understood how a board that slips out from under you is going to reduce the chance that you catch an edge. But I don't take myself or snowboarding seriously enough to argue about it, cause a lot of people around here could wipe my ass with a door duct taped to their feet, so whatever


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## SGboarder (Jun 24, 2012)

jtg said:


> I do agree that I've caught way more edges on non-camber dominant boards. *I've never understood how a board that slips out from under you is going to reduce the chance that you catch an edge*. But I don't take myself or snowboarding seriously enough to argue about it, cause a lot of people around here could wipe my ass with a door duct taped to their feet, so whatever


Maybe because it does not slip out if you ride it properly?


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## radiomuse210 (Sep 5, 2014)

GrizzlyBeast said:


> You think its weird that I would enjoy blowing by someone on the slopes? What the hell?


Yeah I really do. There's a lot of fun to be had in going fast to be sure. But to have an attitude of "haha I'm going faster than that guy!" is odd to me. As though that makes you a better rider than them? Some people choose not to go fast all of the time. Having the goal of being the fastest one out there and that kind of competitive attitude while snowboarding (when not in some sort of competition) doesn't make sense to me. Feeling good because you're meeting a personal goal or going faster than you have before because you've gotten better makes more sense to me. I guess I have a more easy going attitude to riding and I tend to ride with people who also feel that way. Riding with someone who talks about how they blew past that one guy and oh shit look how much faster I was than that other guy would get obnoxious. I personally don't pay any mind if I fly by someone else. They could be still learning, not comfortable going as fast as I am, or have a park-specific board and just took time out to cruise a bit.


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## linvillegorge (Jul 6, 2009)

Well, just to play devil's advocate, if a board is slipping out from under you then you're definitely not catching an edge.


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## GrizzlyBeast (Oct 18, 2014)

linvillegorge said:


> We've just seen this scenario play itself out over and over on this forum. Camber profile fanboys. Rocker this, RC that, no camrock is the shit. It's just completely played out. The most annoying of all though, is the faction you represent - the "if you don't ride traditional camber, you ain't shit" faction.
> 
> It's personal preference, nothing more nothing less. Every profile has it's advantages and disadvantages. But, you can't convince those who are guzzling the koolaid of that.


Im not saying you arent shit if you dont ride camber...im just pointing out that just because something is newer and "in" doesnt make it better. The fact that Neversummer...one of the most awesome freeride snowboard makers in the world doesnt offer a camber version freeride deck pisses me off. I hope thats not hard to understand. I challenge you or anyone who has never ridden a legit camber freeride machine to try one. You will see what Im talking about. If you havent ridden the machines that Im describing I would politely advise you to shut your trap.


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## jtg (Dec 11, 2012)

linvillegorge said:


> Well, just to play devil's advocate, if a board is slipping out from under you then you're definitely not catching an edge.


It is, because when you cruise on flat hardpack, the squirreling from a rocker dominant board creates enough unstable movement that it will slide forward and then catch. The camber deck stays locked in where you put it, so it doesn't catch, unless you don't know how to snowboard at all.


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## linvillegorge (Jul 6, 2009)

GrizzlyBeast said:


> Im not saying you arent shit if you dont ride camber...im just pointing out that just because something is newer and "in" doesnt make it better. The fact that Neversummer...one of the most awesome freeride snowboard makers in the world doesnt offer a camber version freeride deck pisses me off. I hope thats not hard to understand. I challenge you or anyone who has never ridden a legit camber freeride machine to try one. You will see what Im talking about. If you havent ridden the machines that Im describing I would politely advise you to shut your trap.


I've not only ridden them, I've owned them. I don't know why NS has made the decision that R.C. is the answer to everything nor do I agree with it.

But, other companies make the types of decks you're describing. Just buy those instead.


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## linvillegorge (Jul 6, 2009)

jtg said:


> It is, because when you cruise on flat hardpack, the squirreling from a rocker dominant board creates enough unstable movement that it will slide forward and then catch. The camber deck stays locked in where you put it, so it doesn't catch, unless you don't know how to snowboard at all.


I can ride both and keep the edge engaged just fine.


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## GrizzlyBeast (Oct 18, 2014)

radiomuse210 said:


> Yeah I really do. There's a lot of fun to be had in going fast to be sure. But to have an attitude of "haha I'm going faster than that guy!" is odd to me. As though that makes you a better rider than them? Some people choose not to go fast all of the time. Having the goal of being the fastest one out there and that kind of competitive attitude while snowboarding (when not in some sort of competition) doesn't make sense to me. Feeling good because you're meeting a personal goal or going faster than you have before because you've gotten better makes more sense to me. I guess I have a more easy going attitude to riding and I tend to ride with people who also feel that way. Riding with someone who talks about how they blew past that one guy and oh shit look how much faster I was than that other guy would get obnoxious. I personally don't pay any mind if I fly by someone else. They could be still learning, not comfortable going as fast as I am, or have a park-specific board and just took time out to cruise a bit.


No...Im not out there to race people to the bottom, I just ride hard. I dont get a kick out of showing up beginners. In fact...I find myself a few times a season telling noobs to not have their front and back binding at zero degrees lol. 

I also realize that if the park rats or guys that ride rockered 152 cm boards were to climb onto a camber freeride monster they could go as fast as I could. I dont think Im more special than others. However Im 6'2 and run 205lbs.....with a fresh waxed high end sintered base using Swix there arent many who can even keep up with me. Not bragging it is what it is.


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## jtg (Dec 11, 2012)

linvillegorge said:


> I can ride both and keep the edge engaged just fine.


That's the thing, you have to keep the edge engaged. Camber lets you flatbase


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## radiomuse210 (Sep 5, 2014)

jtg said:


> That's the thing, you have to keep the edge engaged. Camber lets you flatbase


I flat base on CRC boards just fine. Pure rocker I admittedly don't have as much experience with. When I used to ride a camber board as my main board, I would have to make sure I had an edge engaged when going over mostly flat terrain, as I found it easier to catch. Now I will throw in that I've gotten better since i had a camber deck as my main one. So a lot of the edge catching could have been inexperience. I wish I could have a quiver full of more variety - and hopefully I'll get there one day. Would love another camber deck plus a RCR. Looking at a Smokin board that is flat to raised. I've heard great things about this board, but would like to demo and see how it feels. 
This isn't a post to say "i'm right, you're wrong" btw -  just offering my perspective from personal experience.


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## radiomuse210 (Sep 5, 2014)

GrizzlyBeast said:


> No...Im not out there to race people to the bottom, I just ride hard. I dont get a kick out of showing up beginners. In fact...I find myself a few times a season telling noobs to not have their front and back binding at zero degrees lol.
> 
> I also realize that if the park rats or guys that ride rockered 152 cm boards were to climb onto a camber freeride monster they could go as fast as I could. I dont think Im more special than others. However Im 6'2 and run 205lbs.....with a fresh waxed high end sintered base using Swix there arent many who can even keep up with me. Not bragging it is what it is.


I appreciate the clarification - that makes a lot more sense to me. Of course I realize everyone is different, want different things from their riding experience, and enjoy different aspects of it. 

I encountered a noob once trying to strap in their board in some insane way. I can't remember exactly what they were doing, but it was something like trying to pull the ankle strap behind their leg and connecting it there. Might not have been exactly that, but it was odd. I helped them get it right, but I was thinking damn...HOW did they get that idea in their heads?


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

GrizzlyBeast said:


> The sketchiest board ive been on is the Ride Berzerker.* I guess im old school.


Again... you've ridden 1sole hybrid and draw pages of conclusions out of this one sole experience? That's not old school, that's snotty prejustice.



GrizzlyBeast said:


> I can effortlessly bomb a cambered Rome anthem with not a hint of catching an edge on my "contact points" lol.





GrizzlyBeast said:


> I enjoy blowing by slow riders on their squirrely rockered boards.


Lol. How snotty... Every experienced rider can. As well as every experienced rider can bomb on a hybrid. If you want to give arguments, stay focused and compare apples with apples (experienced rider with experienced rider) and not you with a randomn rider on a hybrid you have no clue if it was the board that made him slower or the lack of experience or interest in riding faster.

Also, when talking freeride, it seems you mainly have bombing groomers in mind. Of course trad camber is superior, but there are camrocks that are damn close. But freeride also means mainly riding pow to some. And of course trad camber is inferior over a board with a rockered nose. Why even argue over facts. It's all tradeoffs n preferences.

Demo some more camrock hybrids. You may find new awsome options you long for and now miss due to all that dogmatic prejudices gained out of trying 1 board.


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## SGboarder (Jun 24, 2012)

GrizzlyBeast said:


> The sketchiest board ive been on is the Ride Berzerker. I guess im old school.


Not necessarily old school, but you sure as hell need to work on you riding skills.


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

SGboarder said:


> Not necessarily old school, but you sure as hell need to work on you riding skills.


. I was thinking that but didn't say 1st cos I don’t know the Berzerker and 2nd cos who am I to judge others skills. 
I've tried different 4 rocker hybrids till I draw the conclusion naw, this isn't for me (but camber hybrids are). But the same CRC which I disliked for being "squirrely" is ridden by a more skilled rider at speeds Grizz would be challenged to follow. 

However the often cited Rider>Gear argument doesn't hold IMO cos it just says that with more skills, a rider can compensate for a less optimal board and that's not the topic. Topic is that some hybrids are _optimal_.


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## Phedder (Sep 13, 2014)

Phedder said:


>


Nailed it! :yahoo:


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## snowklinger (Aug 30, 2011)

Nivek said:


> Bro, you're talking about gnarly freeride decks. Which is NOT what the OP is looking for. Wanna talk gnarly camber? Sure lets. Flow Maverick, Arbor A-Frame, Burton Custom X, Ride Highlife, pretty much any Donek, Nitros, K2 Slayblade... They still exist. Roots? Who are you to determine where a brand's roots are? Best snowboards ever made were Palmer? I've never enjoyed a Palmer, the don't fit my style. Oh but wait, I forgot that only you can determine how somebody is supposed to snowboard. Cause if we all rode just like you, we'd agree that everybody sold out making rocker and that Palmer is the end all be all of snowboards. Which Palmer basically went under didn't they? They did. Cause no one wants boards like that anymore. You do justifyably prefer camber, but your justification is PERSONAL PREFERENCE. NOT LAW.
> 
> 
> 
> ...





GrizzlyBeast said:


> *Wow..it seems like you have alot of emotion over the subject Nivek. * Thats good...I like that. Let me start off by saying....please dont mention the burton vapor t7 in the same sentence as decent freeride snowboards. I wouldnt blame the guys that were on them moving on to something else. A nitro pantera stomps any of those boards with ease. But Im sure you would find a way to argue with that statement too.
> 
> YOu really lost me when you attempted to discredit Palmer. Arent top Palmer freeride considered the same level snowboard as say a Kessler the Ride? Dont boardercross riders prefer the palmer Crown over most anything else? I dont know...i tend to pay attention to tidbits that legit guys in the know throw out there. Im interested in what you have to say too...*but Im not getting the feeling that you are on the same knowledge level as others in the industry. *


Your last statement is all we need to know who you are, cuz we all know Nivek, and you are fucked off base.

Welcome to the forum Grizzlybeast, you trolling retard. 

Learn to fucking read.

This thread was over when Nivek wrote a pretty interesting post with a bunch of facts about snowboard history and then ducked out when he realized he was getting buzzed by an internet warrior. Thanks for ruining it captain camber. Then again he pretty much covered the subject...

At least you managed in 11 posts to ensure you have zero credibility going forward.


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## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

...:bug: buggy shit...quivers please :wavetowel2:

gotz...
3 full traditional cambers...twin, free ride, and a shovel nose pintail
2 crc's...twin and directional twin
1 rocker nose/flat mid/cam tail

Its all about being a TOOL...just depends on the coldness of pow, the depth of pow, the angle of the pow...and my pow skillz at the time of said pow.


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## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

Phedder said:


> Nailed it! :yahoo:


Sure did!!



jtg said:


> doesn't dave downing ride a nug in powder?


Sure as hell does. In certain situations, trees mostly. JG rides a 150 Day Trader though.



GrizzlyBeast said:


> Wow..it seems like you have alot of emotion over the subject Nivek. Thats good...I like that. Let me start off by saying....please dont mention the burton vapor t7 in the same sentence as decent freeride snowboards. I wouldnt blame the guys that were on them moving on to something else. A nitro pantera stomps any of those boards with ease. But Im sure you would find a way to argue with that statement too.
> 
> YOu really lost me when you attempted to discredit Palmer. Arent top Palmer freeride considered the same level snowboard as say a Kessler the Ride? Dont boardercross riders prefer the palmer Crown over most anything else? I dont know...i tend to pay attention to tidbits that legit guys in the know throw out there. Im interested in what you have to say too...but Im not getting the feeling that you are on the same knowledge level as others in the industry.
> 
> ...


Do BX riders still prefer that board? I honestly have no clue cause that is probably the smallest facet of our sport and virtually no one cares about it anymore. And generally, as has been mentioned here multiple times by guys that really love the BX boards, the new BX profiles are not too dissimilar to that Berzerker you hated so much. Bahahah, Ride should get Durasurf like NS? That's one of the worst sintered bases I've dealt with. Weak as shit. Sorry to the fanboys, but unless you get black, Durasurf is not durable. And you are really judging a boards base by a demo? Come on. Again, if Palmer is really as freaking incredible as you claim, they'd still be around. People still pay for Kesslers and Doneks and Priors and Megalights and Jones Ultras aren't they? 



GrizzlyBeast said:


> ​
> Rocker snowboards were being pushed on snowboard shops to sell to beginners who watched X games and wanted to get into snowboarding. They use terms like "catch free edges"...scaring new riders away from camber. Its hiliarious that the opposite is actually true. I can effortlessly bomb a cambered Rome anthem with not a hint of catching an edge on my "contact points" lol.
> 
> The sketchiest board ive been on is the Ride Berzerker. I guess im old school.


Sketchiest board you've been on? Honestly the fact that you couldn't get that board to ride at all well suggests to me that you have no adaptability and you're riding skills lack any subtlety. That you muscle everything and don't know how to use your weight or pressure your edges independently from foot to foot. At 150 lbs I can swing around a 64 Marverick, 61 Ultra Dream, ride pow on jibsticks and jib stiffer all mountain decks like the Rush or Jibsaw. 

Scaring new riders from camber? Camber takes more effort to ride. Fact. Rocker is easier to turn and having your contact points disengaged creates a much larger margin for error between your edge transition, making them easier to learn on. Most people on the LTR have absolutely no clue what profile there on and 80% of them never ask. Yet Burton is making those full rocker or flat to rocker. I wonder why...



GrizzlyBeast said:


> Like I said earlier..I just want to have an option to buy a freeride camber snowboard from as many manufacturers as possible. I dont care what others want to ride. If you want to ride a rocker go ahead. I enjoy blowing by slow riders on their squirrely rockered boards.
> 
> To me perfection was riding my 08 Neversummer premier. Directional fully cambered...super damp, stable and superfast. Good in powder. This same board had almost 5/5 review stars for 9 or so years straight from multitudes of riders. Why would Neversummer not offer a cambered version of their premier in 09? Instead they go straight to their version of reverse rocker...killing alot of the awesome qualities that the cambered version of the Premier had. The original Premier singlehandedly helped build their reputation in a big way so it angered me when they just dropped it. Thats where my anger with this whole bullshit rocker trend stems actually. Way back when everyone had to bitch out and follow suit.
> 
> Im going to give my business to Nitro...since they have kept their Pantera awesome...refining tiny things over the years to make it that much better.


You "enjoy blowing by riders on their squirly rocker decks" huh? I'll keep up with you on a 153 Flow Rush and I weigh 50lbs less than you. 10% board 90% rider there guy.

Also you mention I must not know shit about the industry and Tidbit, if he is who I think he is, can't really tell you much about anything going on outside of Ride, maybe K2. Stay here long enough and you see just how much I do or don't know. Oh and you wanna know why NS is only making RC? My info is that part of the patent required them to use nothing but for 10 years. Hence the 0 to 100 flip they made and why nothing else has come out from that brand.


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## Lamps (Sep 3, 2011)

Ok, everybody take a break and drink a beer or something. 

I got a burton juice wagon last year, cambered , tapered powder oriented board that still likes groomers. I think it would be a good one board quiver board for the OP if he reconsidered the switch aspect. (Except I have three other boards)

If switch is key then my burton Sherlock (now out of production) would be a good choice, twin shape, loves powder. 

Right now I have two camber and two Flying V boards, but I think I prefer camber. Board number 5 will tell the tale. 

So far Mystery Flying V, Vapor, Sherlock, Juice Wagon - what would round things out? Must be burton due to channel bindings.


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## GrizzlyBeast (Oct 18, 2014)

SGboarder said:


> Not necessarily old school, but you sure as hell need to work on you riding skills.


Dude...the Berzerker sucks. Im sure I could prob ride it for a season and adapt to it better...however I overwhelmingly would choose not to. 

AGAIN...I carefully hotwax all my boards with swix. The Berzerker was going the same speed as people around me...when i was pointing it straight down. With my weight...i easily leave people including skiiers behind me on any other board ive owned. Its not just the hybrid I didnt like...the board just sucked. It felt like riding a slow go kart....I couldnt get the pos to go any faster. Its also hilarious how people describe the berzerker as damp. Those people have NEVER ridden a damp snowboard i can guarantee you that. The ride just felt cheap.

YOu have no idea how I ride. I would probably ride circles around you.


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## GrizzlyBeast (Oct 18, 2014)

Nivek said:


> Sure did!!
> 
> 
> Sure as hell does. In certain situations, trees mostly. JG rides a 150 Day Trader though.
> ...



Yes...exactly. Rockered boards are easier to learn on. Once youve learned though you should realize how many limitations a rockered snowboard has. ROckered snowboards are good for nothing except powder. THATS IT! Just powder. If you want to stand on a squirrely unstable rockered board go ahead. Just dont compare a rockered hybrid piece of shit RIde berzerker to a serious boardercross board like a Palmer Crown. Ride will make you believe their boards ride just like camber but have the benefit of float!!! What a crock of shit. I can tell you for a FACT since I have ridden plenty of boards that the Berzerker falls well short of an awesome freeride deck in many many ways. I dunno...maybe everyone else just sucks at riding a real board so they get some "playful" board so they dont have to do any work? You get out what you put in I guess. At least Im getting my energy back when Im coming out of a turn. That berzerker was a pathetic limp dick snowboard trying to pop in and out of turns. I seriously cant say enough about how shitty the board was. Anyone giving it good reviews has never been on a good snowboard period.


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## linvillegorge (Jul 6, 2009)

If you could truly ride circles around good riders, you could make any board work for you. This board being faster than that board is largely a bunch of shit. You point any decently waxed snowboard straight down the fall line and you're gonna go fast.


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## GrizzlyBeast (Oct 18, 2014)

snowklinger said:


> Your last statement is all we need to know who you are, cuz we all know Nivek, and you are fucked off base.
> 
> Welcome to the forum Grizzlybeast, you trolling retard.
> 
> ...


Dude settle down...Im really sorry I ruined your intimate interaction with Nivek. I see he decided to come back and post so I want to let you know that everything will be ok with your girlfriend. How noble of you to defend Nivek. You are a real internet warrior. You really came out guns blazing. Come at me bro! lol.

Fact bomb. You wouldnt be this angry and out of your mind if I was speaking pure nonsense. You know that what Im saying is true which is why it bothers you so much.


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## Argo (Feb 25, 2010)

Lol, I'm pretty sure this thread started asking for a pow board, who gives a shit about a berzerker? Where do you live and how often are you riding grizzly? 

I have been around a lot of SBX and haven't seen a Palmer..... Mostly Kessler and donek among the hardcore guys and ultra camber newer model decks throughout the crowd.


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## Argo (Feb 25, 2010)

linvillegorge said:


> If you could truly ride circles around good riders, you could make any board work for you. This board being faster than that board is largely a bunch of shit. You point any decently waxed snowboard straight down the fall line and you're gonna go fast.


And put rockets on it.... That's what I do.:cheer:


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## linvillegorge (Jul 6, 2009)

I enjoy how this Grizzly guy likes to call everyone else out for being mad when he's clearly the maddest poster in this thread. :crazy2:


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## GrizzlyBeast (Oct 18, 2014)

linvillegorge said:


> If you could truly ride circles around good riders, you could make any board work for you. This board being faster than that board is largely a bunch of shit. You point any decently waxed snowboard straight down the fall line and you're gonna go fast.


Im saying to you...there are differences in bases. The Salomon Burner I am on has a zeolit base...very very fast. Ive seen those fast ass skiiers do a double take more than once when they see that I am riding a snowboard. My brother still rides the 08 neversummer premier I sold him....yes its a black durasurf base...but needless to say its superfast. I rode a bataleon undisputed for a season and wasnt as impressed with the speed of the base...even though I was flatlining it. Ive heard from others that Arbors bases are slow...which is a big reason Ive never bought an A frame.

Im not arguing over things in my posts...im telling you of my experiences. Im not sure why people would be so angry about me saying my experience and then giving my opinion. I thought that this website was designed for that reason. FOr you people calling me a troll....I must be a pretty darn good one because there is alot of anger and many tears being shed in here.


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## Argo (Feb 25, 2010)

So you have ridden for 8 years, 5 days a year out in West Virginia?


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## chomps1211 (Mar 30, 2011)

Lamps said:


> ...I got a burton juice wagon last year, *cambered , tapered powder oriented board that still likes groomers. I think it would be a good one board quiver board for the OP if he reconsidered the switch aspect.* (Except I have three other boards)
> 
> *If switch is key then my burton Sherlock (now out of production) would be a good choice, twin shape, loves powder….*


I always wonder why switch seems to be given such narrow parameters for learning to ride it successfully!!!

Apologies,… _I know that long time members here are likely to be sick of hearing me post this yet again but,.._

My 2011 Arbor Roundhouse is a *Directional twin* (…full cambered btw, not that I particularly G.A.S. about _that_ part of this ridiculous discussion!) It is narrower at the tail, has a directional flex to it,.. is set back almost 2 full inches. Yet _somehow_ I manage ride the thing switch just fine!!!! :shrug:

In point of fact I "Learned" how to ride regular _and_ how to ride switch on that board!!! It took me having to take a lesson to "get it," but once I did,..? Switch was No Sweat! 

In fact _after_ getting comfortable going switch on _that_ board? Riding switch on the other two "True Twin," (…hybrid camber too, btw! …again, dgas!) boards I eventually acquired,.. was a total piece of cake!!!

So why is it that if one of the OP's desires for a new deck is he/she wants to be able to ride switch,..? Why is it that a directional board should be out of the question? Especially if that board seems to fit all the _other_ criteria He/She wanted so perfectly??? 

*It's really not that friggin' hard to learn to do,…* The absolute, *INCONTROVERTIBLE* proof of *that,…????* *"I"* _MANAGED TO DO IT!_ :blink: :cheer: 
…@50+ years old I might add, and after spending my _entire_ life as pretty much a complete athletic "Klutz!!!!" 




GrizzlyBeast said:


> …..YOu have no idea how I ride. I would probably ride circles around you.


…pretty brave to make a bold and challenging statement like that when you know there's absolutely NO hope of ever having to back it up!!!! Gotta Luv the Interwebz!!!  :lol: 

Everybody and Anybody can write them checks they don't *ever* have to prove their body can cash!!!
:laughat: :no2:  :laughat:


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## GrizzlyBeast (Oct 18, 2014)

Argo said:


> Lol, I'm pretty sure this thread started asking for a pow board, who gives a shit about a berzerker? Where do you live and how often are you riding grizzly?
> 
> I have been around a lot of SBX and haven't seen a Palmer..... Mostly Kessler and donek among the hardcore guys and ultra camber newer model decks throughout the crowd.



See thats where reading and comprehension need to come into play for you. The thread started out with a guy looking for a good freeride deck to go on vacation with. He happened to have a lucky stretch of good pow last time he went on vac so he thinks he should get a pow board. Then after "thinking" about it the guy prob wont encounter 3 feet of powder everytime he wants to go on vacation so he will need a board that can rip groomers and ice as well as some powder too. Thats why I recommended a directional freeriding badass camber snowboard. Then all the lazy loose butthole rocker fans jumped all over me. I just want the op to get a good board...and not some hyped up piece of shit like the berzerker. I feel Ive done my job in helping the OP find a good board.


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## Argo (Feb 25, 2010)

WTF said:


> Hi,
> 
> Im 30/m 5'7 165, boot size 9.5-10.
> 
> ...



Well my reading and riding(yeah I mean riding)comprehension seems better than yours. He was on a cambered deck and didn't like it, the Rome mod was cambered in 2008 if I remember right.

Now, he wants something good for off piste riding, having riden both of these countries I know you can find untouched snow for days after storms, on the resort. Having ridden plenty of powder I know that camber is not best for it or everything for that matter. 

Going full rocker would be a disservice to himself but a hybrid or a board with an early rise rockered nose with camber or flat between the bindings would be ideal. 

Your obviously uneducated and inexperienced about this subject so why not just bow out and quit douching up the much better advice given by people that know what they are talking about? Your the only one seemingly taking this thread personal....... 

Camber has it's place, not in soft off piste snow pack unless you want to ride a monster board


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## GrizzlyBeast (Oct 18, 2014)

Argo said:


> Well my reading and riding(yeah I mean riding)comprehension seems better than yours. He was on a cambered deck and didn't like it, the Rome mod was cambered in 2008 if I remember right.
> 
> Now, he wants something good for off piste riding, having riden both of these countries I know you can find untouched snow for days after storms, on the resort. Having ridden plenty of powder I know that camber is not best for it or everything for that matter.
> 
> ...


The Rome Mod has limited powder capabilities. Now if he said he was riding a Rome Anthem and he needed a better pow board then I wouldnt have said a word. 

He said he wants a fast freeride board that can keep speed in the pow. I ride a 163 Salomon burner. Its tapered and does very well in the powder. Its hard for me to believe that people would think a 163cm snowboard would be too big for a comfortable freeride snowboard. 

Riding powder on a camber snowboard is not a bad thing and is a much more dynamic experience than reverse rocker. Those awesome shred vids of guys slashing and spraying clean powder lines are riding camber boards. You simply cannot ride a rockered board in pow the way that you can ride a camber board in pow. As I stated earlier...if the goal is 3mph around tight trees in waist deep pow you should look at a rocker board. But for most everything else a setback tapered camber board will charge powder with ease. Rockered boards just literally bounce down the side of the hill in deep powder. It looks silly to me. 

If you want to go slow and float around in deep powder (which is a fun feeling) get a rockered snowboard. Then put put it around with it on all those groomer days too because its going to suck for carving and everything else.


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## highme (Dec 2, 2012)

Dude. Just. Stop.


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)




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## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

OP: I gave my short list of what you will enjoy. They are either camber dominant for grip or offer some sort of sidecut story to enhance your grip in harder conditions. They are also well tested boards and do virtually exactly what you're looking for. If you've managed to stick around through all this bullshit, is there any of them catching your interest? Do you have more questions?



WTF said:


> Hi,
> 
> Im 30/m 5'7 165, boot size 9.5-10.
> 
> ...





GrizzlyBeast said:


> You would be extremely lucky to have the same powder experience again...you are better off with a more stable carve oriented freeride board that can perform in the pow when it needs to as someone else above pointed out.
> 
> For me I only ride full cambered boards no matter what. Im 6"2 205 I ride a 163 salomon Burner and it floats no problem in powder. It actually planes up and picks up speed in pow. The burner is super stable, carves awesome and it actually gives back energy and pops out of and into each carve. I bought a Ride Berzerker as a venture into the hybrid world and was extremely disappointed. Yes it floated in pow good when i was at 3mph and it did hold a good edge, but bombing and carving was pathetic in comparison to the full camber monsters ive been on. From my perspective Rocker or any hybrid version of a hard charging freeride board comes up short. Man up and get camber. More camber will be on the market soon since higher level riders are realizing that most hybrid rocker stuff is junk unlessu r going inbetween tight trees in waist deep pow at 3mph.


OP's first post. Before another post of his, you're first post. Let me try and put this in perspective using a different sports gear set. Bikes. We'll use the Trek road line as it fits what I'm trying to get across pretty well. In the line you have the Emonda, Domane, and Madone. Emonda being the pure bred climber, the Domane being the purpose built endurance ride, the Domane the club ride/general race bike, Speed concept the tri/TT bike, and the CX bikes for the slightly odd fellow who like riding a road bike off road. The OP is looking for a Domane, something he can ride everywhere, climbs well, descends well, but his roads are a little bit rougher so smooth is also pretty important. You heard rough roads and wanting a bit of speed and immediately decided that a CX bike was the only option as they are the absolute best for riding fast on dirt roads (excluding full rigid mtn bike).

No where in the OP's original post did he say he wanted to drive nipple draggers across icey slopes? The boards you so vehemently claim are the best are specifically designed with that riding style in mind. He talks about ice, and going fast, but never mentions that his current board is unsatisfactory at either of those things, just with deep snow. So it goes to assume that he is just fine with how fast he is on the Mod and how well it grips. The only fault he'd like to remedy in the new board is it's pow performance. You do not know how to qualify your "customer" and you give "advice" purely on what YOU like to ride. You have this attitude that if you don't snowboard the way YOU snowboard, you're snowboarding wrong. I like to be able to turn hard, play around, hit a rail, ride some deep, ride some trees... and since I'm in Colorado, I can often do all that in one day. So my boards can't be pigeon holed. Are the boards you're mentioning best for carving and going fast. Damn straight. Are they fun in the park. Hell no. Back to bikes, you're used to riding lift access trails on a Voltage. In fact, that's the only biking you do. So when you tested out an Enduro bike, 150mm travel, single crown fork, gears, bigger wheels, smaller tires, you felt it was lacking in the downhill ability compared to your thorough bred and thusly decided it was a piece of shit. That is the same conclusion you made with the Zerker. It wasn't what you LIKE (subjective term) so it *must be shit* (factual statement). You don't give info based on your opinions, you take your opinions and present them as fact. 

Go away now, we're done with you. You are no help to anyone.


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## radiomuse210 (Sep 5, 2014)

F1EA said:


>



:rofl4:

There's no convincing this dude that camber may not be THE board for everyone and how they want to ride. Nothing wrong with a camber hybrid - still keep stability and speed while the rocker allows for better float. There is not going to be this massive drop in performance because the board utilizes some rocker in the profile. Everyone is talking in circles and this guy hasn't been very pleasant to chat with ime in this thread. I thought he was easing up a bit the last time I replied to his post, but I guess not. :blahblah:
I think it would be great to bring the post back around to OP, see if he has made any progress in finding his board...hopefully he could find some actual useful information in this shit-storm of a post.


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## GrizzlyBeast (Oct 18, 2014)

The guy said he doesnt ride park....likes to go fast and ride ice. That sounds like a guy I could recommend a board to. Are you even in reality Nivek? Why the hell would he or anyone be talking about him getting a twin? Anyone giving this guy advice to buy a twin of any kind needs to leave. He goes on vacation ten days out of the year and wants a cool ass freeride board. Maybe he doesnt really know what he wants since hes on a Mod right now. Ever think of that? Whos to say that he wouldnt step onto a Nitro Pantera like a number of educated Europeans and absolutely love it for exactly the type of riding he described? Why does everyone have to recommend the latest and most popular trends and brands and then point to how great they are because...other people with money and marketing think so? nah. Take that advice elsewhere.


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## linvillegorge (Jul 6, 2009)

Grizzly, I think you're the only one in this thread who is adamant about what the guy should be riding. If you look at other posters' suggestions, you will see a variety of different camber profiles being mentioned as possibilities. You like camber, fine. I do too sometimes. But I'm not so damn stubborn or ignorant to think that it's the best option for every rider and every condition.


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## GrizzlyBeast (Oct 18, 2014)

radiomuse210 said:


> :rofl4:
> 
> There's no convincing this dude that camber may not be THE board for everyone and how they want to ride. Nothing wrong with a camber hybrid - still keep stability and speed while the rocker allows for better float. There is not going to be this massive drop in performance because the board utilizes some rocker in the profile. Everyone is talking in circles and this guy hasn't been very pleasant to chat with ime in this thread. I thought he was easing up a bit the last time I replied to his post, but I guess not. :blahblah:
> I think it would be great to bring the post back around to OP, see if he has made any progress in finding his board...hopefully he could find some actual useful information in this shit-storm of a post.


Its too bad for you...Im assuming you are a girl. The very best womens snowboard built was the Neversummer Lotus when it was camber. 

Lets not forget people...snowboarding was derived from surfing. The energy and spirit of snowboarding should come from the same energy as surfing. If you arent slashing turns, laying trenches and spraying up powder you arent snowboarding. All you are doing is sliding down a hill riding these playful rockers. No different than a boogie boarder out hitting the big waves like he is somebody.


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## highme (Dec 2, 2012)

GrizzlyBeast said:


> The guy said he doesnt ride park....likes to go fast and ride ice.


I understand that the only important words are yours, but c'mon dude.

from the OP


WTF said:


> One thing about me is I hate ice...



In summation

Dude. Just. Stop.


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## GrizzlyBeast (Oct 18, 2014)

linvillegorge said:


> Grizzly, I think you're the only one in this thread who is adamant about what the guy should be riding. If you look at other posters' suggestions, you will see a variety of different camber profiles being mentioned as possibilities. You like camber, fine. I do too sometimes. But I'm not so damn stubborn or ignorant to think that it's the best option for every rider and every condition.


Really...which camber model was recommended that I missed? I would like to see its reviews in powder...as the ones I recommended are proven performers in powder.


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## Snow Hound (Jul 21, 2012)

Way to stink up a perfectly nice thread with your postal diarrhea Grizzly. I see it's contagious as well. You forgotten to take your meds or something?


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## linvillegorge (Jul 6, 2009)

GrizzlyBeast said:


> Really...which camber model was recommended that I missed? I would like to see its reviews in powder...as the ones I recommended are proven performers in powder.


We barely got into recommendations before you came in and completely derailed the thread by refusing to think outside of your own narrowly confined little box. What you're doing is akin to recommending a Ford F-350 diesel to anyone looking for a vehicle. Need to tow 15k pound routinely? Great recommendation. Looking for a metro commuter that gets 35mpg and easy to maneuver in parking garages? Terrible recommendation.


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## GrizzlyBeast (Oct 18, 2014)

highme said:


> I understand that the only important words are yours, but c'mon dude.
> 
> from the OP
> 
> ...


If you dont know what Im trying to say...you just arent going to get it. The guy to waste his money and have a more unpleasant experience....but oh just guy is riding a Rome Mod 08' camber and he likes to go fast. These clowns recommending a more unstable rockered board are only going to cause this in case theres 2ft of fresh powder and he magically shows up for it he will be happy with his rocker. IT doesnt make sense...I hope all of you realize that. rockered/hybrid boards perform worse when carving or any hardpack situation. Cry about it whatever you want to do.. its a fact. 

I will ride my Salomon Burner in a heavy snow day any day. I rode Colorado all year last year...there was fresh snow almost every weekend I went up. No issues whatsoever. Even the deep roped off powder near the top of lifts that I would hit was effortless on my burner. I didnt even have to lean back. And if we're only talking a few inches....theres no better feeling than effortlessly popping edge to edge in a few inches of fresh on a camber freeride deck. I already know enough about rocker to know I wouldnt get that feeling in the same situation. Like those days that start off and the whole mountain is groomed but it starts snowing heavy at 9am and then snows all day. My camber board plows through small moguls and chunder that have accumulated with ease...while the rockered boards are riding up on the shit bouncing the rider all over the place. I blaze by people almost carving a solid line through shit like that.....throwing powder clouds about like a smokescreen. No way someone would sell me a rockered or hybrid board of any kind. What a bullshit marketing scheme.


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## chomps1211 (Mar 30, 2011)

GrizzlyBeast said:


> …..If you arent slashing turns, laying trenches and spraying up powder you arent snowboarding. All you are doing is sliding down a hill riding these playful rockers. *No different than a boogie boarder out hitting the big waves like he is somebody.*


Closest I ever came to drowning,.. was while boogie boarding in some storm surf off the pier in San Clemente CA. And by close, I mean I was terrified! The surf was holding me down long enough that I was actually trying to breath, and sucking in salt water! I was just about to start screaming for help when my feet finally touched bottom,..? So if I _had_ actually drowned,.. guess it wouldn't have mattered cuz I was nobody? 

You really _are_ some elitist asshole aren't you! If I told you I liked to Rappel, just for fun! Or that I would often climb rock in big, stiff, clunky Mountain Hiking boots,..? You'd tell me I wasn't really A "climber" wouldn't you?




highme said:


> *I understand that the only important words are yours, but c'mon dude.
> 
> Dude. Just. Stop.*


He can't,..!!! You nailed it! His opinion is Right and as an elitist asshole, it's physiologically impossible for him to stop! "*We"* will have to let this thread die if we want it (him) to stop! 

For my part,..? I'm out! Don't gas what insults are thrown my way! :thumbsup: (BTW,.. anybody seen or heard from OP? Could this have been the _elitist's_ troll all along?) :dunno:


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## linvillegorge (Jul 6, 2009)

Personal preference does not equal cold hard fact. Suggesting that a highly specialized stiff as fuck ultra camber deck is the best option for everyone is the pinnacle of idiocy.


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## Snow Hound (Jul 21, 2012)

Opinions are like arse holes. 

Seems fitting. 

Grizzly is an arse hole.

That too.


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## GrizzlyBeast (Oct 18, 2014)

chomps1211 said:


> Closest I ever came to drowning,.. was while boogie boarding in some storm surf off the pier in San Clemente CA. And by close, I mean I was terrified! The surf was holding me down long enough that I was actually trying to breath, and sucking in salt water! I was just about to start screaming for help when my feet finally touched bottom,..? So if I _had_ actually drowned,.. guess it wouldn't have mattered cuz I was nobody?
> 
> You really _are_ some elitist asshole aren't you! If I told you I liked to Rappel, just for fun! Or that I would often climb rock in big, stiff, clunky Mountain Hiking boots,..? You'd tell me I wasn't really A "climber" wouldn't you?
> 
> ...



boogie boarders arent exactly respected by surfers.


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## Argo (Feb 25, 2010)

Lol, you're so deep in your own world that it's hard to see the light of the rest of the world.... I'm glad you think it's impressive to ride every other Saturday too.... I guess it is for some. Nivek and I, plus a few others on here put in 150-200 or more days on various profiles of boards from many companies. Nivek and BA(who hadn't chimed in yet) do it for a living..... I and a couple others on here just happen to get to ride a lot, all over the place and have lots of different boards each year. It's unfortunate that your too ignorant to see knowledge when it's there. No one really gives a shit about the one or two boards you rode or that you think you can go fast...... 

This is fun poking the nest....


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## Argo (Feb 25, 2010)

GrizzlyBeast said:


> boogie boarders arent exactly respected by surfers.


Guess your a pro on that too.... Lmao :embarrased1::crazy2:


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## radiomuse210 (Sep 5, 2014)

GrizzlyBeast said:


> Its too bad for you...Im assuming you are a girl. The very best womens snowboard built was the Neversummer Lotus when it was camber.
> 
> Lets not forget people...snowboarding was derived from surfing. The energy and spirit of snowboarding should come from the same energy as surfing. If you arent slashing turns, laying trenches and spraying up powder you arent snowboarding. All you are doing is sliding down a hill riding these playful rockers. No different than a boogie boarder out hitting the big waves like he is somebody.


Look don't tell me what's "too bad" for me and that the Lotus would be the best snowboard built FOR ME. Like I said, my main board used to be a full cambered deck. BUT FOR WHAT I LIKE TO DO...I found hybrid boards to be more fun. I'm guessing in your mind that equates me to being someone who follows trends or doesn't know how to ride properly and I don't give a shit. You can have an opinion that the camber NS Lotus is one of the best women's boards ever made - that doesn't make it FACT or that it is the best board for EVERY WOMAN. Like I don't have a mind of my own or that I can't figure out what I like to ride.


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## linvillegorge (Jul 6, 2009)

Dude is such a snowboarding savant that he knows what's best for women too, despite almost certainly having never actually ridden the old cambered NS Lotus.


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## radiomuse210 (Sep 5, 2014)

linvillegorge said:


> Dude is such a snowboarding savant that he knows what's best for women too, despite almost certainly having never actually ridden the old cambered NS Lotus.


I really think at this point he's purposely being an asshole. Especially with that comment "if you aren't carving trenches that means you aren't really snowboarding" which is just nonsense. Plenty of extremely talented park riders don't do hard carving - and there are lots of casual riders who enjoy cruising down the hill at moderate speeds. All of these people are snowboarding.


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## GrizzlyBeast (Oct 18, 2014)

radiomuse210 said:


> Look don't tell me what's "too bad" for me and that the Lotus would be the best snowboard built FOR ME. Like I said, my main board used to be a full cambered deck. BUT FOR WHAT I LIKE TO DO...I found hybrid boards to be more fun. I'm guessing in your mind that equates me to being someone who follows trends or doesn't know how to ride properly and I don't give a shit. You can have an opinion that the camber NS Lotus is one of the best women's boards ever made - that doesn't make it FACT or that it is the best board for EVERY WOMAN. Like I don't have a mind of my own or that I can't figure out what I like to ride.


I guess some kids just climb way up the diving board to jump in feet first with their nose plugged. I get it. If you want to sit down and rest on the side of the mountain or do falling leafs and ride over a box and then sit down and talk about it....thats you. But theres nothing sexier than a a fit lean girl that can carve a snowboard. I couldnt care less if a girl wearing a plaid dickies work shirt can huck herself off of a jump and smash her face in the landing.


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## radiomuse210 (Sep 5, 2014)

GrizzlyBeast said:


> I guess some kids just climb way up the diving board to jump in feet first with their nose plugged. I get it. If you want to sit down and rest on the side of the mountain or do falling leafs and ride over a box and then sit down and talk about it....thats you. But theres nothing sexier than a a fit lean girl that can carve a snowboard. I couldnt care less if a girl wearing a plaid dickies work shirt can huck herself off of a jump and smash her face in the landing.


Hahaha...right that's what I do when I ride. Like I give a shit about pleasing you. :rofl4: I don't tend to go for the dickhead type anyway.


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## linvillegorge (Jul 6, 2009)

radiomuse210 said:


> I really think at this point he's purposely being an asshole. Especially with that comment "if you aren't carving trenches that means you aren't really snowboarding" which is just nonsense. Plenty of extremely talented park riders don't do hard carving - and there are lots of casual riders who enjoy cruising down the hill at moderate speeds. All of these people are snowboarding.


No, I agree. 

Hey, if he wants to monoski sideways that's his business, but LOL @ thinking that's the only "real" snowboarding.


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## francium (Jan 12, 2013)

WTF said:


> Hi,
> 
> Im 30/m 5'7 165, boot size 9.5-10.
> 
> ...


GrizzlyBeast your clearly a bit of a douche starting arguments with people who probably ride more days in one season than you've ever ridden. 
If you bother to read the OP's first post he states that he wants a board that floats well in powder I ride in the alps and you can still find fresh lines days after snowfall. Everyone knows pure camber boards aren't the best in powder unless it's like a battleship, and as he says he like to ride trees your not gonna want a massive camber board. He says he want's something that handle's ice so people recommending magnatraction rcr boards or early rise rocker makes perfect sense. I learnt on camber and still have camber boards but I spend more time on rcr now because they are a better all round board so to the OP take a look at the boards suggested and demo a few.


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## GrizzlyBeast (Oct 18, 2014)

radiomuse210 said:


> Hahaha...right that's what I do when I ride. Like I give a shit about pleasing you. :rofl4: I don't tend to go for the dickhead type anyway.


Haha...is that a picture of you? Please dont take this the wrong way but you are a cute girl. Im really not an asshole. I am a competitive guy however...so I am willing to go places sometimes if people want to go there. Im not smart enough to just walk away. I really do believe what Im saying though. I dont have lots of money to go snowboarding 150 days a year...so when I purchased the Berzerker last season I felt I wasted my money and didnt see where the hype came from. I dont want others to just settle and just accept whats given to them. I dont care what type of riding you do....go and find a Neversummer lotus camber model...ride it all day and then come and tell me how you are a different type of rider. Really thats what needs to happen in order for there to be a clear judgement.


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## Snow Hound (Jul 21, 2012)

linvillegorge said:


> Dude is such a snowboarding savant that he knows what's best for women too, despite almost certainly having never actually ridden the old cambered NS Lotus.


Or actually had a conversation with a woman. Not one that he didn't have pay anyway.


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## GrizzlyBeast (Oct 18, 2014)

If you dont go in the park alot and you want to ride the Ferraris of snowboards...buy directional camber freeride decks. Some of them dont even have to be super stiff. My Burner is very flexible with its ghostlite core...yet its so damp it literally smashes through anything. Its not like you have to lock in every carve because you are on a serious carving maching. You can easily blend in skidded turns/tight turns in trees, long arcing carves...playful carves, slow carves bomb whatever. Theres nothing like it. No other board will offer what a camber model will.


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## ridinbend (Aug 2, 2012)

GrizzlyBeast said:


> If you dont go in the park alot and you want to ride the Ferraris of snowboards...buy directional camber freeride decks. Some of them dont even have to be super stiff. My Burner is very flexible with its ghostlite core...yet its so damp it literally smashes through anything. Its not like you have to lock in every carve because you are on a serious carving maching. You can easily blend in skidded turns/tight turns in trees, long arcing carves...playful carves, slow carves bomb whatever. Theres nothing like it. No other board will offer what a camber model will.


So you don't own a Pantera?




chomps1211 said:


> Closest I ever came to drowning,.. was while boogie boarding in some storm surf off the pier in San Clemente CA. And by close, I mean I was terrified! The surf was holding me down long enough that I was actually trying to breath, and sucking in salt water! I was just about to start screaming for help when my feet finally touched bottom,..? So if I _had_ actually drowned,.. guess it wouldn't have mattered cuz I was nobody?


When was this?


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## linvillegorge (Jul 6, 2009)

GrizzlyBeast said:


> If you dont go in the park alot and you want to ride the Ferraris of snowboards...buy directional camber freeride decks. Some of them dont even have to be super stiff. My Burner is very flexible with its ghostlite core...yet its so damp it literally smashes through anything. Its not like you have to lock in every carve because you are on a serious carving maching. You can easily blend in skidded turns/tight turns in trees, long arcing carves...playful carves, slow carves bomb whatever. Theres nothing like it. No other board will offer what a camber model will.


Absolutely no concept of the difference between opinion and fact. :crazy2:

Dude tries one board with an alternative camber profile and now he's an expert on all things snowboarding.


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## francium (Jan 12, 2013)

GrizzlyBeast said:


> If you dont go in the park alot and you want to ride the Ferraris of snowboards...buy directional camber freeride decks. Some of them dont even have to be super stiff. My Burner is very flexible with its ghostlite core...yet its so damp it literally smashes through anything. Its not like you have to lock in every carve because you are on a serious carving maching. You can easily blend in skidded turns/tight turns in trees, long arcing carves...playful carves, slow carves bomb whatever. Theres nothing like it. No other board will offer what a camber model will.


but a camber board WON'T float as well in powder.


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## Argo (Feb 25, 2010)

If she ever makes it to vail I'll let her rife an infinity and lotus, both cambered decks from mid 2000 era. They were my daughters who is now 22 and doesn't ride anymore..... I guess I could talk about those boards too but they aren't the best womens boards ever based on the opinion 4 people that have actually ridden the ones I personally own..... :lameass:


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## Argo (Feb 25, 2010)

Is that a DCsnow? A Jetfalcon? Nope, just a douche


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## ekb18c (Mar 11, 2013)

Argo said:


> Is that a DCsnow? A Jetfalcon? Nope, just a douche


But still a troll...


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## chomps1211 (Mar 30, 2011)

chomps1211 said:


> Closest I ever came to drowning,.. was while boogie boarding in some storm surf off the pier in San Clemente CA.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Would have been waaaay back in '83-84. Right after I got out of the service. Me and a friend were watching all these kids riding these 10-15, maybe even 20 foot, straight up walls of water being kicked up from some storm down in Mexico and figured if they could do it,… :facepalm3:

First wave I caught, I wound up _on_ the lip instead of inside on the face of it! Dropped straight down from over the top, it yanked the board out of my hands and held me under for like forever!! And the very second I popped my head up, I managed to get half a breath and the next wave landed right on my head! I was under so long that I was actually trying to breath water!! 

That happened twice more, and I realized if It happened again,.. I was probably dead!! But right about then I had been pushed far enough in that I could touch bottom!

I had salt water running out of my sinuses for hours afterward!! :lol: 

I still get heart palpitations whenever I watch any of those big wave surfing contests in Hawaii! 
(…I would still body surf after that whenever I could, but it's been awhile now!)


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## GrizzlyBeast (Oct 18, 2014)

If you just like to cruise the mountain...maybe point it on a green or something....you will get a magic carpet type feeling on a camber snowboard.:crazy2:


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## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

GrizzlyBeast said:


> If you just like to cruise the mountain...maybe point it on a green or something....you will get a magic carpet type feeling on a camber snowboard.:crazy2:


my grizzly beast is best


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

radiomuse210 said:


> :rofl4:
> 
> There's no convincing this dude that camber may not be THE board for everyone and how they want to ride.


Sure there isn't cos we're arguing with someones _believes_ and not his knowledge. He has driven an 2.0 VW Golf automated manual transmission and concludes that all cars with automated manual transmission must be lame just out of his one experience. He has never tried an aggressive camrock freeride board, doesn't even want to know about or learn, in his world, everything not true camber equals to rocker. No clue about all the different types of hybrids, differences even different camrocks can have. Uneducated, ignorant and dumb at the same time. And against better knowledge, we fall to argue with a dogmatist .




chomps1211 said:


> …pretty brave to make a bold and challenging statement like that when you know there's absolutely NO hope of ever having to back it up!!!! Gotta Luv the Interwebz!!!  :lol:
> 
> Everybody and Anybody can write them checks they don't *ever* have to prove their body can cash!!!
> :laughat: :no2:  :laughat:


Not all uf us are that far away... Grizz, curious where you ride in Europe.




linvillegorge said:


> Dude is such a snowboarding savant that he knows what's best for women too


Lol, I'm glad this riddle is finally solved. 




Argo said:


> If she ever makes it to vail I'll let her rife an infinity and lotus, both cambered decks from mid 2000 era.


Interested into trying them! My favourite women's board back in the day was the 157 Palmer Liberty Carbon - before camrock (not the 2.0 VW Golf, but the BMW M5 ) offered so much better pow performance while still being groomer bomber.


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## snowklinger (Aug 30, 2011)

wrathfuldeity said:


> my grizzly beast is best


I hate cats...and yet agree wholeheartedly.

The man is in a hurry to get back on the chairlift guys jeez.


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## GrizzlyBeast (Oct 18, 2014)

Snow Hound said:


> Or actually had a conversation with a woman. Not one that he didn't have pay anyway.


 Tell me Hound...tell me about girls you have to pay to have sex with.


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## radiomuse210 (Sep 5, 2014)

Argo said:


> If she ever makes it to vail I'll let her rife an infinity and lotus, both cambered decks from mid 2000 era. They were my daughters who is now 22 and doesn't ride anymore..... I guess I could talk about those boards too but they aren't the best womens boards ever based on the opinion 4 people that have actually ridden the ones I personally own..... :lameass:


Ah that would be sweet! I would love to try a cambered NS...see how it feels compared to my current NS. I'm sure it will be a blast - but doubt I'll walk away feeling like my whole snowboarding world has been changed. 

I respect people's opinions and what/how they like to ride - but when you start getting petty and talking down to others is when I get annoyed. Saying that I don't push myself when I ride or that all I do is falling leaf, hit a tiny box, fall down, giggle, then sit in the lodge for two hours is insulting - especially considering all the time I put in each season and how hard I work to be a better rider - and not just in the areas of speed and carving, but also in park and freestyle. I love it all. :yahoo:


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## snowklinger (Aug 30, 2011)

My homie has a '14 NS custom with a fuckton of full trad camber.

I wouldn't be too surprised to see them leak a board or 2 back into the lineup despite their CRC zealotry.


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## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

Are you seriously claiming that if you aren't digging trenches, which by the way I can do on a full rockered Arbor Coda, you aren't snowboarding and backing that up by quoting surfing? Bro, get educated. For one, at this point snowboarding has a bit more of a skate background. At the very least it's 50/50 skate/surf. And I seem to remember the origins of surfing in Hawaii were for transportation as stand up paddle boards and when the short boards were first introduced when longboards were the norm the OG's laughed at the kids riding them. Seems a hell of a lot like you laughing at anybody riding the "new" rockered decks compared to you're old cambered boards doesn't it? And you poke fun at park riders, really? Travis Rice. Scotty Lago. Terje Haakonsen. Brian Iguchi. All dudes that got their rise riding the stunt ditch and are now more focused freeriders., and they certainly aren't the only one. Are you also going to tell me guys like Bode Merrill, Dan Brisse, Austin Sweetin, Joe Sexton, Frank April, Brian Fox, Tim Eddy, Louie Fountain, Mike Rav, and countless other non free ride specialty snowboards aren't real snowboarders? 

Go off to your hole and worship your god, Shaun Palmer.




No offense to Shaun, dudes a fucking beast.


Oh I should also mention that one of the gnarliest freeriders on the planet, Xavier De La Rue, his pro model, which has a counter-intuitive flex pattern, is camrock.

I'll just leave this here. Kessler Cross nose and tail rocker.

And please please please can I be there to watch you tell Johan Olofsson that he's a bitch for riding rocker?


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## francium (Jan 12, 2013)

Nivek said:


> Are you seriously claiming that if you aren't digging trenches, which by the way I can do on a full rockered Arbor Coda, you aren't snowboarding and backing that up by quoting surfing? Bro, get educated. For one, at this point snowboarding has a bit more of a skate background. At the very least it's 50/50 skate/surf. And I seem to remember the origins of surfing in Hawaii were for transportation as stand up paddle boards and when the short boards were first introduced when longboards were the norm the OG's laughed at the kids riding them. Seems a hell of a lot like you laughing at anybody riding the "new" rockered decks compared to you're old cambered boards doesn't it? And you poke fun at park riders, really? Travis Rice. Scotty Lago. Terje Haakonsen. Brian Iguchi. All dudes that got their rise riding the stunt ditch and are now more focused freeriders., and they certainly aren't the only one. Are you also going to tell me guys like Bode Merrill, Dan Brisse, Austin Sweetin, Joe Sexton, Frank April, Brian Fox, Tim Eddy, Louie Fountain, Mike Rav, and countless other non free ride specialty snowboards aren't real snowboarders?
> 
> Go off to your hole and worship your god, Shaun Palmer.
> 
> ...


I concur the Magtek XV is a beast and it can definitely carve a trench, it also floats in pow without much effort because it uses this evil magic known as rocker in the nose.


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

OP dude will quit riding pow forever now. :crazy2:
:rofl3:


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## WTF (Oct 18, 2014)

Well, that was highly entertaining, thank you all for helping and making for a weird yet interesting read. Those who said pow like that won't happen again in Europe - thank you for that, you ruined my life 

Since I'm highly limited in my choice of stores (Rei, essentially, I have a friend picking up the board for me in a NYC Rei shop), and they don't have the PYL, sickStick or rossignol Magtek XV, I'm left with (all 158-159cm):

1. lib tech La nina 13/14 (at 400$)
2. Jones flagship 2015 (550$) 
3. K2 ultradream 13/14 (330$)
4. Jones hovercraft 13/14 (380$)
5. Arbor coda 15 (500)

I'm leaning towards the flagship - just not sure it's worth the price difference - I could upgrade my bindings for that price difference, really. It seems like the flagship is the stiffest which i'm uncertain about, but all should fit the bill - from what i gathered here, as well as on TheGoodRide reviews.

Actually - what's the consensus around here regarding these reviews? Good? biased?


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## cav0011 (Jan 4, 2009)

I would get the hovercraft then ultra then coda from that list


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## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

From that short list from what you've talked about, I'd be showing you the Ultra Dream and the Coda.


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## cerebroside (Nov 6, 2012)

Interesting discussion, even if it got a bit heated. As an intermediate rider (~30 days), I was looking at buying a third board for groomer days, and was considering the Berzerker. Current board is a Ride Wildlife, main complaint is that it's sketchy at speed, especially on hard/icy days, and doesn't hold an edge as well as I would like. Should I be considering a trad camber board instead of the Berzerker? I have a Nitro Slash for pow, but haven't ridden it yet, and I've never ridden a camber board.

Edit: Sorry OP, thought you were gone for good after that.


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## radiomuse210 (Sep 5, 2014)

WTF said:


> Well, that was highly entertaining, thank you all for helping and making for a weird yet interesting read. Those who said pow like that won't happen again in Europe - thank you for that, you ruined my life
> 
> Since I'm highly limited in my choice of stores (Rei, essentially, I have a friend picking up the board for me in a NYC Rei shop), and they don't have the PYL, sickStick or rossignol Magtek XV, I'm left with (all 158-159cm):
> 
> ...


The Good Ride can be iffy on their reviews - not much thought go into some and others look copy and pasted with only a few things changed between two products. I usually search this forum or find reviews on store sites like evo.com from people who have owned and ridden the item I'm looking at. I guess it's not a bad place to start.


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## radiomuse210 (Sep 5, 2014)

cerebroside said:


> Interesting discussion, even if it got a bit heated. As an intermediate rider (~30 days), I was looking at buying a third board for groomer days, and was considering the Berzerker. Current board is a Ride Wildlife, main complaint is that it's sketchy at speed, especially on hard/icy days, and doesn't hold an edge as well as I would like. Should I be considering a trad camber board instead of the Berzerker? I have a Nitro Slash for pow, but haven't ridden it yet, and I've never ridden a camber board.
> 
> Edit: Sorry OP, thought you were gone for good after that.


What's your weight and what sizes are the boards that you ride? From my experience, I have found board sizing and flex factor a bit when it comes to sketchiness at speed.


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## WTF (Oct 18, 2014)

I saw some harsh reviews criticizing the ultra dream's edge-hold - is it really bad?

Edit: cerebroside, happy to share my incredibly bloated thread


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## chomps1211 (Mar 30, 2011)

WTF said:


> Well, that was highly entertaining….
> 
> 
> ….but all should fit the bill - from what i gathered here, as well as on *TheGoodRide reviews*.
> ...


Entertaining it was indeed! (…was beginning to think you started the thread as a troll!)  :laugh:

As I understand it, the consensus here is they are pure shite!!! Just a simple cut & paste of the various board manufacturers marketing & pr bs!!!

While I'm not entirely certain of what the choices are for many other objective and respected board review sites out there,..?  This site is known for being highly knowledgable about the industry and the tech changes from year to year. He is also well known as for being *brutally* honest! At least as far as the reviewers opinions on the quality and/or rideabillity of any given reviewed board goes! He doesn't care if he pisses off the manufacturer with his review, he cares if the board is any good to ride!

Worth checking out!


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## Argo (Feb 25, 2010)

On your list if hit the ultra dream and get some new bindings or boots. Jones makes a great board but durability can be an issue. I have talked to a number of riders on the Freeride world tour and all complain about their durability. I have two splits and can't complain about them personally but I have only been out like 10 times total on them....


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

WTF said:


> Actually - what's the consensus around here regarding these reviews? Good? biased?


Well... the site is good to get an overview cos many boards are listed, but some reviews I've read there were just messy. I see that they have sorted the Flag review now (last year it was an intransparent mix of several years/models, and the one of the Mothership was part a copy paste of the Flag what was just meeeh cos they ride pretty different). 

As of the last year in the Alps being exceptional... yes, exceptionally bad . At least in my region (northern part). But even in that bad year, I had many very good days venturing into BC. As you travel at certain time frame and are restricted to one region, it'll always be a lucky punch. Fingers crossed that you get another gread frame but don't _expect_ too much.


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## WTF (Oct 18, 2014)

There seems to be a consensus regarding the ultra dream, so edge hold can't be that bad.

on 165-170lbs, would you go for the 158 or the 161? 
It seems like it floats easily so no real reason to go for the longer board - is there?


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## cerebroside (Nov 6, 2012)

radiomuse210 said:


> What's your weight and what sizes are the boards that you ride? From my experience, I have found board sizing and flex factor a bit when it comes to sketchiness at speed.


Wildlife is what I learnt on, it's a 159W flat to rocker, I'm ~185 lb. So I would be going longer on my next board. The Slash is a 166 gullwing, but as I said I haven't tried it yet.

I guess what I'm asking is if I would lose much carving ability / edge hold / stability at speed going with a hybrid profile, compared to a trad camber profile? GrizzlyBeast seems to think that you do.


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## jtg (Dec 11, 2012)

Yeah thegoodride is kind of shitty. I use it a lot to get basic info but don't take it too seriously. They make things up and paste shit in, sometimes from not even the same manufacturer. It's easy to search so you can get a starting point that way, but don't use it to make your final decision.


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

cerebroside said:


> I guess what I'm asking is if I would lose much carving ability / edge hold / stability at speed going with a hybrid profile, compared to a trad camber profile? GrizzlyBeast seems to think that you do.


Aww... I begin to hate the therm "hybrid" :laugh:. There are soooo many different types with very different properties, there's no sense to categorize them all together.

In general, CRC will feel less stable but it depends on the rider if it affects his riding. There are CRCs that are awsome to carve. And there are true camber which are just so-so. If it would be so easy and there would be such an easy answer to it all, we wouldn't need reviews n forums . In general RCR are more like camber but there are huge differences how pronounced the rocker is in tips n tails between models giving the biards again other properties.

E.g. My Mothership and Farah are both "RCR" but ride very different as the shape n flex is still very different. E.g. My 158 Flag has better edgehold and stability at speed than my 159.5 true camber Jewel. One can't throw all the diversity of brands n models into solely two categories (true camber vs hybrid) and judge accordingly, it's just :crazy2:.


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## ItchEtrigR (Jan 1, 2012)

Dunno, but I just don't buy the "I'm soo' core" act from GrizzlyBeast

You might just be a bad ass old schooler but IMO it just seems you got too much to prove...

Really? Who cares about the dick swinging, and what board anyone rides? Not the least what kind of board is recommended... too me none of this bullshit really matters... a board is just a tool, what ever works for you. A rider probably won't rail that line on a piece of poplar wrapped in biax from wallmart or kill that rail on olofssens pro model that did 3000 vertical feet in 35 seconds, but you can bet if they love snowboarding they are going love trying...


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## cav0011 (Jan 4, 2009)

You will not lose significant edge hold


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## cerebroside (Nov 6, 2012)

Cheers for the input. I guess what I really need to do is demo some boards this winter.



WTF said:


> There seems to be a consensus regarding the ultra dream, so edge hold can't be that bad.
> 
> on 165-170lbs, would you go for the 158 or the 161?
> It seems like it floats easily so no real reason to go for the longer board - is there?


Obviously take my advice with a grain of salt given my limited experience, but this is basically the position I was in when I was looking at the Slash. My feeling is if you're getting a board for the specific purpose of getting more float you may as well go all out and get the longer one.


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## linvillegorge (Jul 6, 2009)

Definitely demo if you have the chance. There's no right or wrong answers in terms of camber profiles. Demo some boards and I bet one of them will stand out to you and then you'll have YOUR answer.


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## Deacon (Mar 2, 2013)

I wonder if that grizz is a snowboarder or just somebody who snowboards. :laughat2::laughat2::laughat2:


*I'm just kidding, do not respond! *


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## GrizzlyBeast (Oct 18, 2014)

cerebroside said:


> Wildlife is what I learnt on, it's a 159W flat to rocker, I'm ~185 lb. So I would be going longer on my next board. The Slash is a 166 gullwing, but as I said I haven't tried it yet.
> 
> I guess what I'm asking is if I would lose much carving ability / edge hold / stability at speed going with a hybrid profile, compared to a trad camber profile? GrizzlyBeast seems to think that you do.


Here take a look at a Nitro Pantera in action. Sure this guy may be a pro rider...but look at what this board is capable of. This is just a short clip. at about 45 seconds in you will really see what im talking about.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9n_cwQLpo_c

As far as edge hold... for me no complaints in that dept on the Berzerker. I could just lean over and it held amazing even if i felt i had bad form. The pow was great. But it was work to get it to carve down groomers. But when youre riding a Nitro Pantera type board carving actually becomes effortless. You just use the energy and let it bounce you in an dout of turns. Its very addicting when you start to feel that surge of energy. If youve never ridden camber it will take you a few runs to dial that in and learn to use it and control it. But once you do...you will feel like thrashing the side of the mountain.


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## radiomuse210 (Sep 5, 2014)

WTF said:


> There seems to be a consensus regarding the ultra dream, so edge hold can't be that bad.
> 
> on 165-170lbs, would you go for the 158 or the 161?
> It seems like it floats easily so no real reason to go for the longer board - is there?


Did you say you have a longer, pow specific board? I can't remember and not going back to look.  I think 158 would be fine for what you want to do (though I'm not an expert)

Edit: nope you don't - mixed you and the other guy up.


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## SnowDogWax (Nov 8, 2013)

Deacon said:


> I wonder if that grizz is a snowboarder or just somebody who snowboards. :laughat2::laughat2::laughat2:
> 
> 
> *I'm just kidding, do not respond! *


Depends which book (TT) you like.....:wavetowel2:


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## GrizzlyBeast (Oct 18, 2014)

Deacon said:


> I wonder if that grizz is a snowboarder or just somebody who snowboards. :laughat2::laughat2::laughat2:
> 
> 
> *I'm just kidding, do not respond! *


? Was that as lame as I thought it was?


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## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

GrizzlyBeast said:


> Here take a look at a Nitro Pantera in action. Sure this guy may be a pro rider...but look at what this board is capable of. This is just a short clip. at about 45 seconds in you will really see what im talking about.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9n_cwQLpo_c


I can do that on a Burton Clash bro.


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## cerebroside (Nov 6, 2012)

GrizzlyBeast said:


> ? Was that as lame as I thought it was?


It's a reference to this thread, in which a different heated and pointless argument was had.

The Pantera does looks good, hopefully I get a chance to demo one.


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## radiomuse210 (Sep 5, 2014)

GrizzlyBeast said:


> Here take a look at a Nitro Pantera in action. Sure this guy may be a pro rider...but look at what this board is capable of. This is just a short clip. at about 45 seconds in you will really see what im talking about.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9n_cwQLpo_c
> 
> As far as edge hold... for me no complaints in that dept on the Berzerker. I could just lean over and it held amazing even if i felt i had bad form. The pow was great. But it was work to get it to carve down groomers. But when youre riding a Nitro Pantera type board carving actually becomes effortless. You just use the energy and let it bounce you in an dout of turns. Its very addicting when you start to feel that surge of energy. If youve never ridden camber it will take you a few runs to dial that in and learn to use it and control it. But once you do...you will feel like thrashing the side of the mountain.



I would say - wow look at what that rider is capable of! I would imagine you could strap almost anything on his feet and he could carve like that.


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## GrizzlyBeast (Oct 18, 2014)

I dont know or care enough to search what a huge pile of shit a burton clash is.

why dont you come back and show us a video of a hybrid camber or reverse camber board making short quick powerful carves like the Nitro Pantera can do? I want to see it. See...you really dont have an answer. Why dont you name a top freeride board with all of your bullshit tech that can do that? Guess what...doesnt exist. And when you are actually riding the Pantera...you are super stable and in control at high speeds. Like I said...effortless. 

Go now noobs and intermediates....set your sights on an awesome camber freeride machine. Dont let these fools tell you not to buy the fastest dampest best handling snowboard on the market. Seriously...who would tell someone not to buy a good handling stable fast sturdy edge hold board with awesome carving abilities. You guys are insane...im serious that is actually scary. We all need to start thinking for ourselves.


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## GrizzlyBeast (Oct 18, 2014)

radiomuse210 said:


> I would say - wow look at what that rider is capable of! I would imagine you could strap almost anything on his feet and he could carve like that.



But you are mistaken...and I dont blame you if youve never experienced what you are actually watching. My carves look just like this...so I know how my board will almost be sweeping beneath me launching into and out of turns. You wont see anyone carving a hybrid or rocker board like this...its physically not possible. It might look similar...but its totally different. Ive experienced both.


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## linvillegorge (Jul 6, 2009)

Grizz, dude... give it up. You can lay trenches on all different camber profiles if you have the skills. You're just coming across as either a troll or a 100% dumbass. There's no third option.


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## Deacon (Mar 2, 2013)

GrizzlyBeast said:


> ? Was that as lame as I thought it was?


The joke wasn't meant for you, cunt nugget.


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## GrizzlyBeast (Oct 18, 2014)

Deacon said:


> The joke wasn't meant for you, cunt nugget.



YOu didnt specify...and you think I said something wrong for responding appropriately? I can see your type from a mile away. Especially with that cool DC shirt your wearing in your cool photo lol. DC absolutely sucks balls lol. Sellout. Is there anyone on this website that isnt a follower?

Im originally from Minnesota...Wisconsin isnt that big. I know what you look like now that your pic is displayed for the world to see. I would enjoy if you said something like that to me in person. 

You are an extremely insecure person lol. Ahh the internet.


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## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

GrizzlyBeast said:


> YOu didnt specify...and you think I said something wrong for responding appropriately? I can see your type from a mile away. Especially with that cool DC shirt your wearing in your cool photo lol. DC absolutely sucks balls lol. Sellout. Is there anyone on this website that isnt a follower?
> 
> Im originally from Minnesota...Wisconsin isnt that big. I know what you look like now that your pic is displayed for the world to see. I would enjoy if you said something like that to me in person.


Though you don't have it anymore, that Ride you bought, owned by a brand that makes sleeping bags. Those NeverSummers? NeverSummer presses ski's. Palmer, did BX and SkierX.

Gimme some brands you like that you think are "core". DC is owned by Quik. Who yes, sells "surf" shirts in Kansas, but they are still a skate and surf company aren't they? Yeah. How's that taste.

You will never win. Go away.


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## GrizzlyBeast (Oct 18, 2014)

Nivek said:


> Though you don't have it anymore, that Ride you bought, owned by a brand that makes sleeping bags. Those NeverSummers? NeverSummer presses ski's. Palmer, did BX and SkierX.
> 
> Gimme some brands you like that you think are "core". DC is owned by Quik. Who yes, sells "surf" shirts in Kansas, but they are still a skate and surf company aren't they? Yeah. How's that taste.
> 
> You will never win. Go away.



You said absolutely nothing....but with your reputation among the sheep...im sure they will probably get something out of it.


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## linvillegorge (Jul 6, 2009)

This whole act rings a bell. I'm pretty sure this is Matt Scheffelman back again. I think his handle was SickPow or something like that before he eventually got banned for this same type of trolling.

Sup, bro!


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## highme (Dec 2, 2012)

WTF said:


> Well, that
> Since I'm highly limited in my choice of stores (Rei, essentially, I have a friend picking up the board for me in a NYC Rei shop), and they don't have the PYL, sickStick or rossignol Magtek XV, I'm left with (all 158-159cm):


Not sure if you're aware or not, but REI ships for free to their stores. So if you found something on their site your friend could still pick it up. It takes about a week, so if they're in a hurry, it may not work.


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## Argo (Feb 25, 2010)

Nivek said:


> Though you don't have it anymore, that Ride you bought, owned by a brand that makes sleeping bags. Those NeverSummers? NeverSummer presses ski's. Palmer, did BX and SkierX.
> 
> Gimme some brands you like that you think are "core". DC is owned by Quik. Who yes, sells "surf" shirts in Kansas, but they are still a skate and surf company aren't they? Yeah. How's that taste.
> 
> You will never win. Go away.


I don't think he has the ability to. He is one of those last word people... Lol. 

I love how you took it so personal that your doing that hole "if you ever IRL " nonsense. Makes me chuckle a little more every time you post up. 

There's pictures of me all over the site, feel free to buy ke a beer if you see me in vail. I live at the base.... Pretty easy to find.

I quoted Nivek in regards to my first comment, the rest is mentioned for grizzledbeaver


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## cav0011 (Jan 4, 2009)

So.....I wasted time watching that youtube video....there is nothing in that video that is remotely difficult or impressive. Additionally if you need a specific type of board to pull off those carves you are a bad rider.


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## GrizzlyBeast (Oct 18, 2014)

Argo said:


> I don't think he has the ability to. He is one of those last word people... Lol.
> 
> I love how you took it so personal that your doing that hole "if you ever IRL " nonsense. Makes me chuckle a little more every time you post up.
> 
> ...


Yea...do you have any insight into why he called me a cunt nugget? It as for absolutely no reason. Do you have any thoughts on that? Because thoughtful human beings actually use reason. I get it that you all need to gang up on me....since there are 5 people that respond to one post that I respond to. Hey its the internet though. Thats why I point out that if We wer e in person...and your ragged 150lb scrawny ass was standing in front of me i would fucking ragdoll you. Probably all five of you. Bring it.


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## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

GrizzlyBeast said:


> You said absolutely nothing....but with your reputation among the sheep...im sure they will probably get something out of it.


Sorry, I forgot you can't read good. You called Deacon a sell out for wearing DC. Why exactly?


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## GrizzlyBeast (Oct 18, 2014)

Nivek said:


> Sorry, I forgot you can't read good. You called Deacon a sell out for wearing DC. Why exactly?


Fuck Deacon


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## Deacon (Mar 2, 2013)

GrizzlyBeast said:


> Fuck Deacon


Lulz. :sad1:


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## radiomuse210 (Sep 5, 2014)

GrizzlyBeast said:


> But you are mistaken...and I dont blame you if youve never experienced what you are actually watching. My carves look just like this...so I know how my board will almost be sweeping beneath me launching into and out of turns. You wont see anyone carving a hybrid or rocker board like this...its physically not possible. It might look similar...but its totally different. Ive experienced both.


Yup I've experienced it and yes I know that people can carve like that on boards that aren't trad camber. Seen it done, not physically impossible. I have a friend that can carve the fuck out of an NS Proto - he's amazing and can probably carve on a wooden plank. Certified instructor and has been doing this for years on end everyday. But you know everything...


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## GrizzlyBeast (Oct 18, 2014)

Deacon said:


> Lulz. :sad1:


Awwww....insecure and cute. You are really something special. Im coming home for thanksgiving tough guy.


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## Deacon (Mar 2, 2013)

GrizzlyBeast said:


> Yea...do you have any insight into why he called me a cunt nugget? It as for absolutely no reason. Do you have any thoughts on that? Because thoughtful human beings actually use reason. I get it that you all need to gang up on me....since there are 5 people that respond to one post that I respond to. Hey its the internet though. Thats why I point out that if We wer e in person...and your ragged 150lb scrawny ass was standing in front of me i would fucking ragdoll you. Probably all five of you. Bring it.


You said you're 6'2"and 205 and you decide to threaten the 150lb guy. Impressive. I called you a cunt nugget because thats an accurate description of your behavior. Don't like it? Change your behavior. :dunno:


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## radiomuse210 (Sep 5, 2014)

Deacon said:


> Lulz. :sad1:


It took me a minute to realize this was YOU. I just remember that one profile picture you had...and I failed to look at your user name until grizz just said "fuck deacon" - maybe the old one would have won him over. :laugh:


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## Deacon (Mar 2, 2013)

GrizzlyBeast said:


> Awwww....insecure and cute. You are really something special. Im coming home for thanksgiving tough guy.


I'm in Hudson. Swing on by.


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## chomps1211 (Mar 30, 2011)

GrizzlyBeast said:


> I dont know or care enough to search what a huge pile of shit a burton clash is.
> 
> why dont you come back and show us a video of a hybrid camber or reverse camber board making short quick powerful carves like the Nitro Pantera can do? *I want to see it. See...you really dont have an answer. Why dont you name a top freeride board with all of your bullshit tech that can do that? Guess what...doesnt exist…...*


*BULLSHIT!* I've seen video of Japanese riders doing that! Not only doing it, they were doing it *faster* and _*tigher*_ than the dude in your clip _and_ doing it on some sort of rocker or hybrid board that they then proceed to butter, spin, press and twist the fuck out of!!!! So piss off!

-edit-



linvillegorge said:


> Grizz, dude... give it up. You can lay trenches on all different camber profiles if you have the skills. *You're just coming across as either a troll or a 100% dumbass. There's no third option.*


Sorry to contradict you there linville but Sure there is,.. *He's a 100% Dumb Ass Troll!*


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## linvillegorge (Jul 6, 2009)

I'm telling y'all, it's SickPow back again. He already got banned for this shit once.


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## GrizzlyBeast (Oct 18, 2014)

Deacon said:


> I'm in Hudson. Swing on by.


Lol.....youre going to eat shit you prideful asshole. It doesnt have anything to do with me either. You are going to eat it soon. Enjoy the ride.


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## Argo (Feb 25, 2010)

Lol, last time I was 150 was like 6th grade.... Thanks for saying I look slim in my pictures though. You can buy me a beer first, then Rag doll me, whatever that means. If it means you want anal, I'm not really in to that or sucking dick. I'll let you blow me though? That might take two beers though.


----------



## GrizzlyBeast (Oct 18, 2014)

linvillegorge said:


> I'm telling y'all, it's SickPow back again. He already got banned for this shit once.


I have no idea who that person is nor do I care. I am however willing to keep things clean if others are as well. I simply treat people how they treat me and respond accordingly.


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## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

Alright, let's end this. That's my buddy Austin. Echelon Rounds. 3D base. Full rocker or flat rocker, can't remember. 160lbs of pure muscle and that's a 149 in that photo. And that was one of the more upright nipple draggers he was throwin down that day.


----------



## Argo (Feb 25, 2010)

linvillegorge said:


> I'm telling y'all, it's SickPow back again. He already got banned for this shit once.


It's pretty amusing to partake in on a Sunday between hikes, bikes, gym trip and cooking dinner.


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## GrizzlyBeast (Oct 18, 2014)

Argo said:


> Lol, last time I was 150 was like 6th grade.... Thanks for saying I look slim in my pictures though. You can buy me a beer first, then Rag doll me, whatever that means. If it means you want anal, I'm not really in to that or sucking dick. I'll let you blow me though? That might take two beers though.



Ahhh...now we are there. Now we see whos on the other end. None of my friends or people i associate with would ever say anything close to the things you just said in your post. I dont care what kind of money you have or what your social status is....youre a trashy person.


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## Deacon (Mar 2, 2013)

Holy shit. What a fucking schizo.


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## GrizzlyBeast (Oct 18, 2014)

Nivek said:


> Alright, let's end this. That's my buddy Austin. Echelon Rounds. 3D base. Full rocker or flat rocker, can't remember. 160lbs of pure muscle and that's a 149 in that photo. And that was one of the more upright nipple draggers he was throwin down that day.



Its hilarious how high his ass is sticking up in that pic. Looks really awkward and unnatural. Im sure you dont have any footage of actually linking turns....do you? I mean with thousands of days of riding between you experienced obviously wealthy guys...lets see some carving on your go pro vids.


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## radiomuse210 (Sep 5, 2014)

GrizzlyBeast said:


> I have no idea who that person is nor do I care. I am however willing to keep things clean if others are as well. I simply treat people how they treat me and respond accordingly.


You say this but I never said anything disrespectful to you - just disagreed that a trad camber is the right board for everybody or can do things that other boards can't do. You proceed to insult me by saying I do falling leaf down the mountain, sit down for rests, and all that bullshit. Just because my main board is now a hybrid instead of the trad camber it used to be.


----------



## chomps1211 (Mar 30, 2011)

GrizzlyBeast said:


> YOu didnt specify...and you think I said something wrong for responding appropriately? I can see your type from a mile away. Especially with that cool DC shirt your wearing in your cool photo lol. DC absolutely sucks balls lol. Sellout. Is there anyone on this website that isnt a follower?
> 
> Im originally from Minnesota...Wisconsin isnt that big. I know what you look like now that your pic is displayed for the world to see. I would enjoy if you said something like that to me in person.
> 
> You are an extremely insecure person lol. Ahh the internet.



Like I said earlier,.. Real Ballsy!!! Tough guy threats from an interwebz dweeb who is no doubt too big a fucking pussy little tard to ever back up his bullshit!!

I'm sure Deac is just quivering in terror and looking for a place to hide,.. You Buttwipe! While your at it there shitstain,… MI's. not that far from WI. either! Got the big hairy balls to threaten and come looking for a 53 year old arthritic with a bad back??? Post *your* pic pussy! I'll keep an eye out for you!


----------



## Argo (Feb 25, 2010)

Don't have a lot of money or class. Well, I have $40 in my wallet. I'll buy my own beers I guess, you sound boring, narrow minded, shallow, homophobic and prude.


----------



## GrizzlyBeast (Oct 18, 2014)

radiomuse210 said:


> You say this but I never said anything disrespectful to you - just disagreed that a trad camber is the right board for everybody or can do things that other boards can't do. You proceed to insult me by saying I do falling leaf down the mountain, sit down for rests, and all that bullshit. Just because my main board is now a hybrid instead of the trad camber it used to be.


 Seriously youre the only person that I havent had an issue with. I was kidding about the falling leaf stuff...i seriously thought that you would find that funny. Ihave no idea how you ride. Youre obviously passionate about snowboarding...thats all I need to know. I already respect your opinion. If we were discussing things outside of me reacting to other people aggressively...I wouldnt have come off like I know it all or that everyone else is wrong. I would just give my opinion and actually listen better. Since you know what type of riding that I like...maybe you or others should recommend a good hybrid or whatever shape that I should try so that I can be a believer? Im willing to put my recommendations out there and have people try it...what board should I try to make be a believer?


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## GrizzlyBeast (Oct 18, 2014)

Argo said:


> Don't have a lot of money or class. Well, I have $40 in my wallet. I'll buy my own beers I guess, you sound boring, narrow minded, shallow, homophobic and prude.


I hope you dont have kids.


----------



## GrizzlyBeast (Oct 18, 2014)

chomps1211 said:


> Like I said earlier,.. Real Ballsy!!! Tough guy threats from an interwebz dweeb who is no doubt too big a fucking pussy little tard to ever back up his bullshit!!
> 
> I'm sure Deac is just quivering in terror and looking for a place to hide,.. You Buttwipe! While your at it there shitstain,… MI's. not that far from WI. either! Got the big hairy balls to threaten and come looking for a 53 year old arthritic with a bad back??? Post *your* pic pussy! I'll keep an eye out for you!



Im sure....you judge for me for being an internet tough guy...then you turn around and do the same thing lol. Go take some more medication clown. I would break your hip.


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## highme (Dec 2, 2012)

GrizzlyBeast said:


> Yea...do you have any insight into why he called me a cunt nugget? It as for absolutely no reason.


I can think of 43 reasons, well 44 after you reply to this, why somebody might think you're a nugget of cunt.




GrizzlyBeast said:


> Seriously youre the only person that I havent had an issue with. I was kidding about the falling leaf stuff...i seriously thought that you would find that funny.


Hey Billy Badass, I don't think it matters how much you suck up to her, she's not that into you.


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## Manicmouse (Apr 7, 2014)

I love how people join the forum and try to fit in


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## Argo (Feb 25, 2010)

You're 19 and from Colorado Springs currently? I have a son that's 14, he could likely out wit you.... out ride you too. He also isn't gay so you don't have much luck with him either.


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## GrizzlyBeast (Oct 18, 2014)

highme said:


> I can think of 43 reasons, well 44 after you reply to this, why somebody might think you're a nugget of cunt.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thats a nice picture of an old black woman sitting on a couch manufactured in 1975. I guess when you dont have anything going for yourself in life...you might get some attention taking the oddball route. Good angle chump.


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## chomps1211 (Mar 30, 2011)

GrizzlyBeast said:


> Im sure....1. you judge for me for being an internet tough guy...then you turn around and do the same thing lol. *2. Go take some more medication clown. I would break your hip.*


1. Truth hurts donnit!! I respond in kind to dipshits of your ilk! (look it up retard!) I didn't START or make ANY threats,.. just got sick of reading yours, and invited you to put up or STFU!!


2. _LOL!!!!_ Tougher twats than _you_ have tried and failed!!!


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## GrizzlyBeast (Oct 18, 2014)

Argo said:


> You're 19 and from Colorado Springs currently? I have a son that's 14, he could likely out wit you.... out ride you too. He also isn't gay so you don't have much luck with him either.


Oh no...I knew it. Go read the bible and learn how to be a man. Seriously. You are wandering around in la la land as an insecure old probably bisexual man. Be a better person to your kids and family. Just man up.


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## chomps1211 (Mar 30, 2011)

highme said:


> I can think of 43 reasons, well 44 after you reply to this, why somebody might think you're a nugget of cunt.


:cheer:



highme said:


> Hey Billy Badass, I don't think it matters how much you suck up to her, she's not that into you.


Funny how his tone toward her changed as soon as rm changed her avatar & he could clearly see she was a cutie, eh?? I noticed that right off the bat with his very next post! And this db, GB,..? He will never convince me _that_ was coincidence!

He's been tryin' to suck up to her ever since! LOL!


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## Argo (Feb 25, 2010)

I've read it, but it just another book. no **** here but I won't hold it against you. My 22yo daughter is a lesbian so I have learned to embrace anyone. 

Don't worry grizzledbeaver, I can embrace you too.


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## Manicmouse (Apr 7, 2014)

GrizzlyBeast said:


> Go read the bible and learn how to be a man.


Satire! I like it!


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## SGboarder (Jun 24, 2012)

Nivek said:


> GrizzlyBeast said:
> 
> 
> > Here take a look at a Nitro Pantera in action. Sure this guy may be a pro rider...but look at what this board is capable of. This is just a short clip. at about 45 seconds in you will really see what im talking about.
> ...


Agree. The dude is carving nicely and with good form. Good for him – but he (and many other people) could do this on any kind of board.




GrizzlyBeast said:


> radiomuse210 said:
> 
> 
> > I would say - wow look at what that rider is capable of! I would imagine you could strap almost anything on his feet and he could carve like that.
> ...


As for it being physically impossible to do this on a non-camber board, let’s have a look at what this guy is doing on a coupe of fairly rockered hybrids:




and





You knew this, of course, and are only trolling, so it is really pointless to argue with you. But hopefully this will and prevent inexperienced readers from believing your BS by providing further evidence that your statements are simply garbage.

And I am out - no more feeding the troll.


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## ekb18c (Mar 11, 2013)

This thread kind of reminds me of that other thread with bamfboardman. They do sound the like same guy. "His opinion must be fact" type.


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## GrizzlyBeast (Oct 18, 2014)

First...I never said a hybrid etc cant hold an edge. I admitted that I could lean the Berzerker into a carve and it held very well. I could lay it over just like this guy was. But there are subtle things going in when this guy is carving that only people like myself would notice. 

Go to the 5:07 mark on the top video (raptor) and you will see that this guy is leaning his whole upper body in order to get into his turns. thats why he got off balance for a moment. In a camber board you can pressure on one edge and pop into turns like that. Just compare the guy riding the Nitro to the guy riding the Neversummer boards...and you will see that the Nitro Pantera is not only capable of long arcing turns...but also quick snappy controlled turns. And it appears effortless and fun. If you dont know what im saying to be fact then you wont unless you experience it. Im obviously not going to convince you. BTW ive seen these videos and it doesnt make me want to buy either boards. They look like alot of work to enjoy them. maybe thats why the raptor and premier disappeared.


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## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

GrizzlyBeast said:


> Its hilarious how high his ass is sticking up in that pic. Looks really awkward and unnatural. Im sure you dont have any footage of actually linking turns....do you? I mean with thousands of days of riding between you experienced obviously wealthy guys...lets see some carving on your go pro vids.


Wealthy? Austin lived on my couch for 2 years. He's from Detroit. Not the nice part either. I did mention that one wasn't very layed out didn't I? I did. 

"I am a real snowboarder. And anytime you wanna come see what a real snowboarder is, you come see me" -Austin.

And with all these expensive freeride boards you love and that you bought a Zerker what sounds like on a whim, I'll assume you too have a GoPro. Lets see the gnarly mcnasty footage of you


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## Donutz (May 12, 2010)

FFS. I'm a little surprised Hitler hasn't been invoked, this thread has gone to such total shit.

Don't make me bring out the garden hose.


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