# Crayon Waxing w/ no heat



## supern00b (Jan 27, 2020)

How do you tell if you're crayoning enough wax? It seems like certain patches are unwaxed, even though i've gone over it multiple times.

Also, is it just me or does oneballjay f1 wax smell like red jello?


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## bseracka (Nov 14, 2011)

When crayoning wax I like to get a thin even layer over the entire base first, so everything is more or less covered in wax. Then I iron. At this point if it seems like there are some unwaxed spots, I'll recrayon, or drip wax in those areas and iron again.


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## Kijima (Mar 3, 2019)

The nature of crayoning wax on builds high spots and then those high spots are the only contact point between the base and the wax block. It's unavoidable. 
Swap your iron for a heat gun and a rag and you will never have to worry about even distribution again. 

Crayon the wax, melt a pool with the heat gun and rub it in with the rag. No scrape needed and perfect coverage achieved every time.


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## Oldman (Mar 7, 2012)

Board bases have highs and lows as mentioned. If you crayon and use an iron, you will push wax off the high points into the lows and coverage will be complete. I sometimes drip a little onto those spots that I know are low. Binding suck for example.


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## freshy (Nov 18, 2009)

supern00b said:


> How do you tell if you're crayoning enough wax? It seems like certain patches are unwaxed, even though i've gone over it multiple times.
> 
> Also, is it just me or does oneballjay f1 wax smell like red jello?


I'll still get the moist trail looking thing, if theres a non waxed spot I'll first try to drag some hot wax over from farther down the board, or more crayon or a few drips will do it.


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## Scalpelman (Dec 5, 2017)

I crayon the entire board twice before heat. It’s seems to cover well when ironing.


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## Jack87 (Jan 9, 2021)

Just trying to understand lingo. I understand the methods.

When we talk crayon are we talking about rubbing wax with no heat across the base or touching wax block to hot iron then rubbing the wax on base? Is there different terms for these methods.


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## supern00b (Jan 27, 2020)

Jack87 said:


> Just trying to understand lingo. I understand the methods.
> 
> When we talk crayon are we talking about rubbing wax with no heat across the base or touching wax block to hot iron then rubbing the wax on base? Is there different terms for these methods.


Good question; I'm referring to no heat, just friction.


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## bseracka (Nov 14, 2011)

I’m talking iron and smear. Nothing wrong with doing a cold rub first I’d your wax is soft enough, but a cold rub alone doesn’t put down enough wax to iron


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## Scalpelman (Dec 5, 2017)

I crayon cold.


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## Oldman (Mar 7, 2012)

I use Zoom Universal and I crayon cold. I do three crayon passes of the entire board ( now I am using a big, wide 400 gram block, so coverage is huge ) and then hit it with the iron for about 7 minutes. Lays down a beautiful razor thin layer that covers completely and usually scrapes off with one pass of the metal scraper. Quick rub down with the green scrubby and good to go.


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## supern00b (Jan 27, 2020)

Scalpelman said:


> I crayon cold.


Do you apply heat afterwards? Rotobrush?


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## ridethecliche (Feb 27, 2019)

I'll touch the wax to the iron and crayon from there. Doing it cold just feels like an exercise in futility. You're already using way less wax doing it this way vs dripping it on.

I guess it's different if you have a rotobrush or something.


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## supern00b (Jan 27, 2020)

ridethecliche said:


> I'll touch the wax to the iron and crayon from there. Doing it cold just feels like an exercise in futility. You're already using way less wax doing it this way vs dripping it on.
> 
> I guess it's different if you have a rotobrush or something.


I might try this. How much do you melt before crayoning?


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## ridethecliche (Feb 27, 2019)

I legit just touch the wax to the iron and then draw lines down the length of the board getting decent coverage


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## Jack87 (Jan 9, 2021)

supern00b said:


> I might try this. How much do you melt before crayoning?


You literally just touch the iron. enough melts from the touch then you rub then you touch again as the smear stops. I usually rub on a layer totally cold. then touch to iron and smear along edges and contacts points mostly then center.. then use iron to spread it... as i touch to smear a few drips fall every now and then i try to position the iron strategically to drip in spots i want.

I might be doing something wrong but essentially all three methods at once for me using iron to spread in the end.


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## ridethecliche (Feb 27, 2019)

I do the same re catching drips on the board. I don't do a cold rubdown since that seems like a waste of time to me but might give it a go next time I wax to try to prove myself wrong. No harm trying.


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## Jack87 (Jan 9, 2021)

ridethecliche said:


> I do the same re catching drips on the board. I don't do a cold rubdown since that seems like a waste of time to me but might give it a go next time I wax to try to prove myself wrong. No harm trying.


It probably does little difference with the cold rub down first. but its more of a mental thing for me knowing im not touching the hot iron surface to bare base. which really isnt that big of a deal anyway when its a split second. It just keeps me feeling better about it. Also makes me not be as anal about coverage of the touch and smear method that follows.


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## WigMar (Mar 17, 2019)

I've been doing cold rub downs followed up with a rotobrushing. The touch and smear method puts down way too much wax for the rotobrush to quickly work into the base. I think the block of wax I'm using may last me the rest of my life.


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## dwdesign (Mar 30, 2011)

WigMar said:


> I've been doing cold rub downs followed up with a rotobrushing. The touch and smear method puts down way too much wax for the rotobrush to quickly work into the base. I think the block of wax I'm using may last me the rest of my life.


Curious about this... are you roto-corking or roto-brushing it in? Doesn't brushing clear it out rather than work it in?


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## Scalpelman (Dec 5, 2017)

I cold crayon two passes then iron. It doesn’t take long for the very thin layer of wax to melt. Then quick scrape and rotobrush.

Btw, my way is the best.


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## supern00b (Jan 27, 2020)

dwdesign said:


> Curious about this... are you roto-corking or roto-brushing it in? Doesn't brushing clear it out rather than work it in?


He actually has a thread about this here: Tuning Tools

This is the video that was the source of inspiration:


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## WigMar (Mar 17, 2019)

I've tried a rotocork, but the brushes seem to work it in faster. If you're on a budget, you could totally just get the nylon brush and be fine. The friction of the brush creates localized heat which seems to bond the wax to the base well. It goes down just like in that video. I can wax my whole fleet in the time one traditional waxing would take.


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## Jack87 (Jan 9, 2021)

Scalpelman said:


> Btw, my way is the best.


I totally agree my way is the best


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## supern00b (Jan 27, 2020)

So I tried crayon waxing with no heat/brush on my korua TF, and after a day of riding, it seems like most of the base is dry again. Might have to use the rotobrush this time.

Do I need to remove the old wax using a steel brush, or will a scotchbrite pad work fine @WigMar ?


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## Jack87 (Jan 9, 2021)

Has anyone ever tried something like this? its a nylon roto brush for leather or something like that $16 if you're on a budget no handle to hold onto. Would there be any ill effect trying this on a snowboard base before investing in actually snowboard roto kit?

Edit: Correction... its a livestock brush.


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## dwdesign (Mar 30, 2011)

Jack87 said:


> Has anyone ever tried something like this? its a nylon roto brush for leather or something like that $16 if you're on a budget no handle to hold onto. Would there be any ill effect trying this on a snowboard base before investing in actually snowboard roto kit?
> 
> Edit: Correction... its a livestock brush.
> 
> View attachment 157441


Someone on this forum who uses that to remove wax posted a link for that. Note that the brush length (staggered heights) and material is not as firm and much longer than a typical wax roto brush. 

It may work for wax removal, but for sure it makes a cow's ankle look fluffy and gorgeous!


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## WigMar (Mar 17, 2019)

supern00b said:


> So I tried crayon waxing with no heat/brush on my korua TF, and after a day of riding, it seems like most of the base is dry again. Might have to use the rotobrush this time.
> 
> Do I need to remove the old wax using a steel brush, or will a scotchbrite pad work fine @WigMar ?


I do use a steel brush to clear out the old wax. I like how it opens the structure back up as well. Alternatively, I've thought about hitting it with the rotobrush before applying wax.


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## Scalpelman (Dec 5, 2017)

Jack87 said:


> Has anyone ever tried something like this? its a nylon roto brush for leather or something like that $16 if you're on a budget no handle to hold onto. Would there be any ill effect trying this on a snowboard base before investing in actually snowboard roto kit?
> 
> Edit: Correction... its a livestock brush.
> 
> View attachment 157441


I got that one. Works fine.


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## chomps1211 (Mar 30, 2011)

I don't drip wax at ALL anymore. (...Well, maybe for a summer storage Layer,) Cold rub works fine if you're in a hurry, and Ill do that in the hotel room. But I find a touch & smear Crayoning works _really_ well. When I do it, it never seems to require any scraping. Just a thorough ironing in and a Buff with a green scrubby. Im Good to go. 👍 YMMV!

I've Been using the same bar of Bluebird wax, On three boards, for about 5-6 years. (...smells like berries!)


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## Jack87 (Jan 9, 2021)

Scalpelman said:


> I got that one. Works fine.


Awesome thanks for the heads up. You use it to polish in the end after scraping it sounds like?


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## Manicmouse (Apr 7, 2014)

Dammit guys I'm going to get myself a heat gun and start using the crayon method. I have 5 snowboarders in the family... That's a lot of scraping.

Will a cheapy 2000W heat gun suffice?


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## smellysell (Oct 29, 2018)

Manicmouse said:


> Dammit guys I'm going to get myself a heat gun and start using the crayon method. I have 5 snowboarders in the family... That's a lot of scraping.
> 
> Will a cheapy 2000W heat gun suffice?


I use a Harbor Freight one. Guessing that's about as cheapo as they come and works fine. 

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## Manicmouse (Apr 7, 2014)

Something like this? 1500 Watt 11 Amp Dual Temperature Heat Gun

Do you use the lower temp setting and just keep it moving?


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## smellysell (Oct 29, 2018)

Manicmouse said:


> Something like this? 1500 Watt 11 Amp Dual Temperature Heat Gun
> 
> Do you use the lower temp setting and just keep it moving?


That's exactly the one. I use the high setting. 

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## Kijima (Mar 3, 2019)

Manicmouse said:


> Something like this? 1500 Watt 11 Amp Dual Temperature Heat Gun
> 
> Do you use the lower temp setting and just keep it moving?


I use the max heat setting and keep it moving, I guess I maintain a molten pool of wax around 5cm in diameter and rub it in with a rag just behind the heat gun as I move along.


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## Manicmouse (Apr 7, 2014)

Thanks guys, will pick one up today (probably) and have a go.


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## ridethecliche (Feb 27, 2019)

This entire rub on, plus heat gun, plus just rub in with cloth idea thing is bonkers to me.
I'll have to give it a go, but sadly my season's days are numbered. I think I have maybe a handful left at this point. :/


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## Kijima (Mar 3, 2019)

ridethecliche said:


> This entire rub on, plus heat gun, plus just rub in with cloth idea thing is bonkers to me.
> I'll have to give it a go, but sadly my season's days are numbered. I think I have maybe a handful left at this point. :/


Lol. 
This new concept challenges my old beliefs, and that makes me unconfortable.


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## ridethecliche (Feb 27, 2019)

Kijima said:


> Lol.
> This new concept challenges my old beliefs, and that makes me unconfortable.


WAX ON WAX OFF


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## supern00b (Jan 27, 2020)

Damn...it's already almost march


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## Radialhead (Jan 3, 2018)

ridethecliche said:


> This entire rub on, plus heat gun, plus just rub in with cloth idea thing is bonkers to me.


There are so many theories on what waxing actually does, it's hard to know what to believe. Unfortunately the "seat of the pants dyno" is very unreliable. There's a motorbike tuning company that are very highly rated amongst owners of a specific model of bike. The clients spend their several hundred £££ & swear blind the bike had much more power throughout the entire RPM range afterwards. The thing is, it's a complete con. It's like homeopathy for engines. If those people had put their bikes on a dyno, they would've seen the air-fuel ratio & BHP/torque were exactly the same as before. Yet they swear blind it made a big difference. Confirmation bias. 

I don't know if the same applies to some of these waxing techniques, but it would be great if someone like Project Farm would take on the challenge & test it.


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## Manicmouse (Apr 7, 2014)

This isn't really about performance, it's ease of application.


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## Jack87 (Jan 9, 2021)

Manicmouse said:


> This isn't really about performance, it's ease of application.


Yes this! Performance is another animal!


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## WigMar (Mar 17, 2019)

Yeah, I'm not trying to improve my racing times. I'm after wax adhesion with less effort, time, and heat.


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## Radialhead (Jan 3, 2018)

If it isn't about performance, why bother waxing at all? Or why not just crayon & not bother with the iron/hot air gun? Or why not just crayon & give a quick rub with the iron to smooth the lumps rather than fully melt it? My point is nobody knows which of those is best, because nobody ever tests it using a measurable, repeatable process. 

I think it just boils down to doing what you enjoy doing. If you like going through the full clean/structure brush/drip/iron/horsehair brush process whilst downing a few beers, go for it. If you hate all that palaver, don't bother doing any of it, it probably won't matter. Anything in between - that's cool too.


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## supern00b (Jan 27, 2020)

Radialhead said:


> If it isn't about performance, why bother waxing at all? Or why not just crayon & not bother with the iron/hot air gun? Or why not just crayon & give a quick rub with the iron to smooth the lumps rather than fully melt it? My point is nobody knows which of those is best, because nobody ever tests it using a measurable, repeatable process.
> 
> I think it just boils down to doing what you enjoy doing. If you like going through the full clean/structure brush/drip/iron/horsehair brush process whilst downing a few beers, go for it. If you hate all that palaver, don't bother doing any of it, it probably won't matter. Anything in between - that's cool too.


What do you reckon is the minimum beneficial level of treatment? The alternative being to not wax at all.


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## smellysell (Oct 29, 2018)

supern00b said:


> What do you reckon is the minimum beneficial level of treatment? The alternative being to not wax at all.


I think his point is that he doesn't really know, nor does anybody else without testing, which is accurate. Placebo affect its a hell of a thing. 

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## Radialhead (Jan 3, 2018)

supern00b said:


> What do you reckon is the minimum beneficial level of treatment? The alternative being to not wax at all.


Purely based on what I personally believe after reading numerous discussions on the subject, I think the minimum beneficial thing is to use a metal scraper on the outer sections of the base that go white with use, to remove the 'hairs'. I do use a brass brush then crayon & iron, but mainly because I find it quite therapeutic. And whilst it may not do any good, it certainly doesn't do any harm. I would love to see some proper tests though, being a big fan of evidence-based science & medicine.


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## WigMar (Mar 17, 2019)

Radialhead said:


> If it isn't about performance, why bother waxing at all? Or why not just crayon & not bother with the iron/hot air gun? Or why not just crayon & give a quick rub with the iron to smooth the lumps rather than fully melt it? My point is nobody knows which of those is best, because nobody ever tests it using a measurable, repeatable process.
> 
> I think it just boils down to doing what you enjoy doing. If you like going through the full clean/structure brush/drip/iron/horsehair brush process whilst downing a few beers, go for it. If you hate all that palaver, don't bother doing any of it, it probably won't matter. Anything in between - that's cool too.


I'd like to see a scientific study about the affects of heat on a snowboard's long term health. Does waxing with heat really rob you of pop and camber? I kinda doubt it, but I'm also waxing without heat these days. 

This isn't very scientific, but I spent a season without waxing at all. It wasn't the end of the world. I honestly didn't notice the lack of wax most of the time. I appreciated being lazy. 

This season I decided to wax mostly to protect my bases. I was tired of the chalky white look they had. I have noticed better glide through flats and lift lines. I am refreshing my structure and my edges with each waxing, so that's probably affecting how I feel about things too.


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## Kijima (Mar 3, 2019)

It's totally about saving time for me, but saving money and saving environmental impact of all that scraped off wax is a bonus.
Scraping is the messiest thing to do and its extremely wasteful so if I can avoid scraping and still enjoy the same benefits of waxing then I am happy.
I don't even use ski wax anymore, I use generic paraffin wax that costs 1% the price of ski wax.
I've done my research, I learned how to make a snowboard base hydrophobic, and half the things I was led to believe turned out to be superfluous so I dropped them, nobody needs to believe me however but you should believe a single drop of water is an effective way to test and start doing your own testing.


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## Scalpelman (Dec 5, 2017)

Yes. Scraped wax is a mess and waste. Crayon fixed that. I used to love the process of cleaning, drip, iron, scrape, brush. But with the ever growing quiver it’s just not feasible from a time standpoint. And I’m not going to pay someone else to do it. That’s a matter of principle. No one cares more for my gear than me. And yes I can feel the difference of a freshly waxed base at lower speeds—for maybe a few runs But it’s more than that. It’s good for the base. Next step for me is to get some paraffin wax when my current block runs out. But that may be some time since the crayon is so efficient. 

So how does everyone clean their base? I typically scrape the dirty wax off before waxing and follow with a scrubby.


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## Radialhead (Jan 3, 2018)

Kijima said:


> I've done my research, I learned how to make a snowboard base hydrophobic, and half the things I was led to believe turned out to be superfluous so I dropped them, nobody needs to believe me however but you should believe a single drop of water is an effective way to test and start doing your own testing.
> View attachment 157459


There are people who say the last thing you want is for the water to bead. Fast racing yachts & windsurf boards are sanded specifically to stop beading, as they're faster when the water sheets instead. Which brings us back to exactly what waxing's supposed to do, & how it does it. There is no consensus on that.


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## dwdesign (Mar 30, 2011)

Radialhead said:


> There are people who say the last thing you want is for the water to bead. Fast racing yachts & windsurf boards are sanded specifically to stop beading, as they're faster when the water sheets instead. Which brings us back to exactly what waxing's supposed to do, & how it does it. There is no consensus on that.


Terry Hertel always talks about the angle of the water bead and that his wax additive/sufactant collapse the bead flat to keep speed. Don't know if Hertel wax works any better than others, but I always use it unless it's super cold.


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## Kijima (Mar 3, 2019)

In my testing which was all performed last spring here in Japan I found that I don't even need wax until the weather warms up or the new snow came from a warm south system. 
So the problem is not a cold temp problem, it's a spring problem, a water problem, other people might have sticky bases in the cold but for me that never happens. 
My testing used a drop of water and I observed how flat or tall the water droplet would sit on my board, then I observed how easily and uniformly the water drop would slide along the base of the board. 

The boards that were fast were the ones where the water drop stayed in a tight ball, not wanting to spread out and stick to the base material. When I tilted the board the drops that were in a tight ball moved freely along the base keeping a nice tight shape while the other drops spread out and broke u as they tried to slide off the base. 

So for the wet snow problem, I saw that beading is essential for a fast board. It's the same theory applied to flame treating UHMW HDPE base material and sidewall for bonding when a snowboard is being constructed, albeit applied in reverse. 
To create or remove surface tension is the name of the game here, if i am building a board I need to create surface tension to ensure the epoxy bonds to the base and sidewalls, if I want to ride a board I need to create the opposite and reduce surface tension.


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## Manicmouse (Apr 7, 2014)

If I wax my board I'm one of the fastest on the flats where I ride and I don't get stuck, so it's a given that waxing improves performance in my experience. Beyond this it's convenience and efficiency and that's where I'll look at techniques.

Another approach is to look for that extra 0.05% increase in performance, but that's a waste of _my_ time.


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## supern00b (Jan 27, 2020)

Scalpelman said:


> Yes. Scraped wax is a mess and waste. Crayon fixed that. I used to love the process of cleaning, drip, iron, scrape, brush. But with the ever growing quiver it’s just not feasible from a time standpoint. And I’m not going to pay someone else to do it. That’s a matter of principle. No one cares more for my gear than me. And yes I can feel the difference of a freshly waxed base at lower speeds—for maybe a few runs
> 
> 
> 
> ...


What's this scrubby that ppl keep referring to? Is it just the green side of a dish sponge?


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## WigMar (Mar 17, 2019)

supern00b said:


> What's this scrubby that ppl keep referring to? Is it just the green side of a dish sponge?


Yup. They sell the green scrubby part on it's own.


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## supern00b (Jan 27, 2020)

WigMar said:


> Yup. They sell the green scrubby part on it's own.


Gotcha. When in the waxing process do you use these?


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## WigMar (Mar 17, 2019)

They're used for buffing and polishing at the end. They're also useful for cleaning off the base before waxing. I used to wash my boards with dish soap and a green scrubby in the shower if I really needed a base cleaned before waxing.


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## supern00b (Jan 27, 2020)

Do you just use a steel brush instead of dish soap now?


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## WigMar (Mar 17, 2019)

supern00b said:


> Do you just use a steel brush instead of dish soap now?


Yup. I don't really use green scrubbies anymore either. I feel like that final polish is more for racers.


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## Manicmouse (Apr 7, 2014)

WigMar said:


> Yup. I don't really use green scrubbies anymore either. I feel like that final polish is more for racers.


I used to use a nylon brush after scraping, now I don't bother. Still need to buy that damn heat gun to give it a go


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## smellysell (Oct 29, 2018)

Manicmouse said:


> I used to use a nylon brush after scraping, now I don't bother. Still need to buy that damn heat gun to give it a go


I need a steel brush

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## chomps1211 (Mar 30, 2011)

Radialhead said:


> If it isn't about performance, why bother waxing at all? Or why not just crayon & not bother with the iron/hot air gun? Or why not just crayon & give a quick rub with the iron to smooth the lumps rather than fully melt it? My point is nobody knows which of those is best, because nobody ever tests it using a measurable, repeatable process.
> 
> I think it just boils down to doing what you enjoy doing. If you like going through the full clean/structure brush/drip/iron/horsehair brush process whilst downing a few beers, go for it. If you hate all that palaver, don't bother doing any of it, it probably won't matter. Anything in between - that's cool too.


I quit doing the full drip wax/scrape method because after trying the crayon method as a stop gap one time,.. I really couldn't tell the difference between the two methods performance wise!

And since Im lazy, If I can't see any benefit in performance there's absolutely NO point in putting in all the extra time & work to drip, iron, scrape & buff my 3 boards. 

It's certainly possible that Im wrong and there IS in fact an actual performance benefit! But if so, it's small enough that I can't tell the difference so it's essentially a moot point for me. 🤷‍♂️

Crayon is way easier, simpler, and does a good enough job for me!
"Close Enough for Government Work!" 😂🤷‍♂️


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## ridethecliche (Feb 27, 2019)

Honestly, my reason for waxing is maybe a bit based on performance but mostly based on longevity.
For performance, yeah, it's important to me that I don't slow down too much and get stuck when it's flat ish, but I'm never really waxing to get more speed for bombing.


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## smellysell (Oct 29, 2018)

ridethecliche said:


> it's important to me that I don't slow down too much and get stuck when it's flat ish.


100%

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## Phedder (Sep 13, 2014)

I'm a sucker for a nice polished black base, and I'm ahead of everyone I ride with on cat tracks and flats, but I'm also heavier than everyone I ride with so maybe it's all just momentum. I generally wax every 2-5 riding days but I'm also getting paid to wax my own boards  Just take them to work with me and if it's slow (which most of this season has been) I'll wax them. Crayon method touching the block to the iron, then metal scraper, copper brush, nylon brush.


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## Scalpelman (Dec 5, 2017)

Phedder said:


> I'm a sucker for a nice polished black base, and I'm ahead of everyone I ride with on cat tracks and flats, but I'm also heavier than everyone I ride with so maybe it's all just momentum. I generally wax every 2-5 riding days but I'm also getting paid to wax my own boards  Just take them to work with me and if it's slow (which most of this season has been) I'll wax them. Crayon method touching the block to the iron, then metal scraper, copper brush, nylon brush.


What’s the purpose of the copper brush?


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## Phedder (Sep 13, 2014)

Scalpelman said:


> What’s the purpose of the copper brush?


It could be brass, I should check. Just a slightly firmer brush to brush out wax from the structure, then nylon to polish.


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## Scalpelman (Dec 5, 2017)

Ok. So steel brush to clean. Then crayon wax, scrape, brass and nylon brush for the win?


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## ridethecliche (Feb 27, 2019)

That's too many steps


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## supern00b (Jan 27, 2020)

Team iron-less checking in here: steel brush, crayon wax, rotobrush. Good?


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## Phedder (Sep 13, 2014)

Scalpelman said:


> Ok. So steel brush to clean. Then crayon wax, scrape, brass and nylon brush for the win?


I'm also doing it by hand, no rotobrush so the brass/copper saves me from doing 20 passes with the Nylon brush hah. 

Really I just like the shine, real world difference is likely very minimal after scraping.


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## Manicmouse (Apr 7, 2014)

Team half-ass: drip wax, iron, scrape. Good?

Though I'm hoping the heat gun method is even more simple 😆


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## start_today (Mar 17, 2020)

Manicmouse said:


> Team half-ass: drip wax, iron, scrape. Good?
> 
> Though I'm hoping the heat gun method is even more simple 😆



Up your half-assed game and do crayon and no scrape.


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## Manicmouse (Apr 7, 2014)

start_today said:


> Up your half-assed game and do crayon and no scrape.


I like your style.


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## smellysell (Oct 29, 2018)

start_today said:


> Up your half-assed game and do crayon and no scrape.


That's what I just gone done doing! Kijima style! 

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## Kijima (Mar 3, 2019)

Throw away your scrapers


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## Alpine Duke (Jun 21, 2015)

ha ha haven't bee on the forum for a very long time. new names but same discussion  Used to get some raucous ones going. Burton Avenger would troll everyone and try to get a waxing argument going. I see @chomps1211 is on here and he will certainly remember them . Turns out asking someone about their wax or waxing method is the same as asking about which oil one uses on the Ducati forum i'm on. Both can be nearly a religion to someone. Amazed this thread is so mellow. I doff my chapeau at all of you for the servility. 

Here is one more vote for crayon and heat gun. Except that I don't brush because of laziness. Will be very sticky the first 40 meters because of that but then it is fine. I learned about this from a post on this forum. someone had posted a youtube about it years ago and it got all kinds of people stirred up. Sometimes I will get rambunctious and go ahead and iron. It does put more wax on. when I heat gun a thin layer on it doesn't last long. Iron layers lasts longer for me but I think just because it it thicker.


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## smellysell (Oct 29, 2018)

Kijima said:


> Throw away your scrapers


What are your thoughts on a brass brush after crayon and heat gun/rag? 

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## Pablo$ (Oct 10, 2020)

Wuss asses unless you wax your topsheet.


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## Manicmouse (Apr 7, 2014)

Pablo$ said:


> Wuss asses unless you wax your topsheet.


That's extra work if you're also doing your base!


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## Kijima (Mar 3, 2019)

smellysell said:


> What are your thoughts on a brass brush after crayon and heat gun/rag?
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 5 using Tapatalk


No problem at all but totally unnecessary. A brass brush would be better used before the wax goes on to clean the dirty spots.


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## Kijima (Mar 3, 2019)

Pablo$ said:


> Wuss asses unless you wax your topsheet.


I do, sidewalls too.


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## Jack87 (Jan 9, 2021)

Wax your edges people!!!


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## Jack87 (Jan 9, 2021)

So... I'm likely going to be ironing and scraping for awhile because I just got a new scraper sharpener. Definitely over priced! But it works and I need to justify that purchase by scraping so then I can sharpen my dull scraper. It actually works and scraping with a sharp Plexi scraper ain't so bad. I highly recommend sharpener if you can find it for 20 or less. Otherwise use a file make your own guide.

Those that don't scrape and let the mountain do it... I can't justify that. Sadly due to work I can only go on weekends. And traffic is a b*tch. Lines such and it usually take 2 to 3 hours to get on the mountain. Every run is precious... Can't waste it going slow... So scrape on I will.

I also got that live stock roto brush going to give it a shot after I trim the longer bristles to match length of shorter bristles in turn also making them a bit stiffer. Poorman's roto!


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## Kijima (Mar 3, 2019)

Jack87 said:


> Those that don't scrape and let the mountain do it... I can't justify that.


You don't need to scrape if you only put a microfilm of wax on in the first place. That's the trick to it. 
The only advantage to putting a thick layer of wax and scraping it all off again is the cleaning that happens. When you throw away all that wax you throw away the oils and contamination that was on the base.


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## Radialhead (Jan 3, 2018)

Alpine Duke said:


> Turns out asking someone about their wax or waxing method is the same as asking about which oil one uses on the Ducati forum i'm on. Both can be nearly a religion to someone.


The "which oil & tyres" debates in adventure bike groups are endless. Curiously that doesn't happen in the MV Agusta group - pretty much everyone just agrees on Motul.


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## Jack87 (Jan 9, 2021)

Radialhead said:


> The "which oil & tyres" debates in adventure bike groups are endless. Curiously that doesn't happen in the MV Agusta group - pretty much everyone just agrees on Motul.


Wow all my years of motorcycles I did not think such a world existed. Motul Marketing for the win!


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## Kijima (Mar 3, 2019)

Please don't wax your boards with Motul folks


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## start_today (Mar 17, 2020)

smellysell said:


> That's what I just gone done doing! Kijima style!
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 5 using Tapatalk


To be fair, I think wrathfuldiety has been preaching the crayonnoscrape gospel for longer.


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## Firstorlast (Jan 18, 2019)

Kijima said:


> The nature of crayoning wax on builds high spots and then those high spots are the only contact point between the base and the wax block. It's unavoidable.
> Swap your iron for a heat gun and a rag and you will never have to worry about even distribution again.
> 
> Crayon the wax, melt a pool with the heat gun and rub it in with the rag. No scrape needed and perfect coverage achieved every time.


Makes sense. I’m going to give it a go. Thanks for the tip.


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## start_today (Mar 17, 2020)

With the rag, do you rub parallel with the board, or just in circles?

I’d like to advocate that this method be called the “Rub and Tug,” but I’m not sure how tug becomes relevant.


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## Oldman (Mar 7, 2012)

start_today said:


> To be fair, I think wrathfuldiety has been preaching the crayonnoscrape gospel for longer.


But don't forget, he is also using Unicorn turd in his high tech wax, so he has the fastest wax and the shortest prep!


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## Kijima (Mar 3, 2019)

start_today said:


> With the rag, do you rub parallel with the board, or just in circles?
> 
> I’d like to advocate that this method be called the “Rub and Tug,” but I’m not sure how tug becomes relevant.


   
You are a bad man lol. 

I rub in circles, but now I feel dirty just saying it. . .


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## Rip154 (Sep 23, 2017)

Jack87 said:


> So... I'm likely going to be ironing and scraping for awhile because I just got a new scraper sharpener. Definitely over priced! But it works and I need to justify that purchase by scraping so then I can sharpen my dull scraper. It actually works and scraping with a sharp Plexi scraper ain't so bad. I highly recommend sharpener if you can find it for 20 or less. Otherwise use a file make your own guide.


I always used the edge of the board to sharpen scrapers.


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## smellysell (Oct 29, 2018)

start_today said:


> To be fair, I think wrathfuldiety has been preaching the crayonnoscrape gospel for longer.


True, but I was referring to the heat gun and rub N tug method from @Kijima . 

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## Scalpelman (Dec 5, 2017)

Rub and tug.


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## Kijima (Mar 3, 2019)

Just to be clear, I'm not worried about who invented it, I would say neither @wrathfuldeity nor myself actually invented it. 
Thomas Edison actually invented it shortly after knocking over the lightbulb thingy he was working on.


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## start_today (Mar 17, 2020)

Edison and Tesla
Newton and Liebniz


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## Kijima (Mar 3, 2019)

George Westinghouse


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## ridethecliche (Feb 27, 2019)

start_today said:


> Edison and Tesla
> Newton and Liebniz


Kijima and wrathfuldeity


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## smellysell (Oct 29, 2018)

I'm just excited to reference the rub N tug method as much as possible moving forward. 

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## ridethecliche (Feb 27, 2019)

RT waxing technique


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## WigMar (Mar 17, 2019)

I'm pleased my preferred method has no such name. I tend to repeat stuff like that to myself like a mantra.


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## smellysell (Oct 29, 2018)

WigMar said:


> I'm pleased my preferred method has no such name. I tend to repeat stuff like that to myself like a mantra.


We can fix that... 

Sent from my Pixel 5 using Tapatalk


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## supern00b (Jan 27, 2020)

I'm pretty sure rubbing and tugging has been around since man evolved to have hands


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## Jack87 (Jan 9, 2021)

So I tried the no heat crayon>Nylon Roto brush>scotch bright pad.

I used the poorman's nylon roto brush mentioned earlier that i picked up for $10 on amazon. lacks a handle but its not a big deal. I had to trim the bristles so they were all the same length. 

All in all it seemed to work really well base feels smooth and waxed. Only issue was the amount of wax dust the method makes kinda sucks if doing indoors which is my situation. But what's worse... that wax dust that somehow got onto tip and tail of the top sheet. Grr not sure how to get rid of that looks ugly as hell. 

@WigMar any insight?


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## WigMar (Mar 17, 2019)

Jack87 said:


> So I tried the no heat crayon>Nylon Roto brush>scotch bright pad.
> 
> I used the poorman's nylon roto brush mentioned earlier that i picked up for $10 on amazon. lacks a handle but its not a big deal. I had to trim the bristles so they were all the same length.
> 
> ...


It's cool that livestock brush worked out! 

I've noticed a couple things about that wax dust. If you crayon on a thinner layer of wax, there's less dust. I've been playing with thinner and thinner layers of wax. Also, the rotobrush handle I have picks up a static charge and collects a ton of the dust. I've just been dusting the top sheet off with a rag when I'm done. I haven't had any wax dust sticking to the point where I couldn't wipe it off. I have only used cold weather wax with this method so far. Maybe warm weather wax is stickier.


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## Jack87 (Jan 9, 2021)

WigMar said:


> It's cool that livestock brush worked out!
> 
> I've noticed a couple things about that wax dust. If you crayon on a thinner layer of wax, there's less dust. I've been playing with thinner and thinner layers of wax. Also, the rotobrush handle I have picks up a static charge and collects a ton of the dust. I've just been dusting the top sheet off with a rag when I'm done. I haven't had any wax dust sticking to the point where I couldn't wipe it off. I have only used cold weather wax with this method so far. Maybe warm weather wax is stickier.


Yeah the statics charge from the handle you have I'm sure makes a big difference. I'll have to ride and see now the board performs. If it works well I might invest in a snowboard specific roto kit. But 10 bucks to find out was not so bad...

So I got curious and took a sharp scraper to the base after it was all said and done. And thin layers of wax was scraped off just like when I use an iron. So I conclude the brush just didn't take everything out. So maybe longer time with it might of? Anyway I'm happy with how it applied the wax I think I'm going to add a scraping step after brush and before buffing.

It was a lot easier to scrape though like it wasn't difficult at all. I might suggest trying to scrape right after the brush and seeing if anything comes out for science. I'm sure it's fine and it will mostly have come off on its own after the first run but personally I rather take off what I can off the mountain so even the first run feels fun and fast .


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## Scalpelman (Dec 5, 2017)

I don’t get much dust at all when I crayon, iron, scrape, roto. Not ironing seems like you’re omitting a critical step.


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## Manicmouse (Apr 7, 2014)

Just tried the crayon, heat gun method for the first time on a board that already had partial wax cover. I wasn't sure how effective crayoning the wax on was, but melting it with the heat gun and rubbing it with a cloth seemed to work well. Took about 10 mins, but I barely did any crayoning.


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## Manicmouse (Apr 7, 2014)

Just waxed my BOD, crayoned Hertel Super Hot Sauce. At this rate the block of wax will last half a century...

For those already using this method, is this how you do it? Any tips?


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## Craig64 (Jul 16, 2015)

Manicmouse said:


> Just waxed my BOD, crayoned Hertel Super Hot Sauce. At this rate the block of wax will last half a century...
> 
> For those already using this method, is this how you do it? Any tips?


Manic' it looks slightly longer to do a board but you would avoid having to do a scrape so time saved here. You would have to be very careful with positioning the heat gun to prevent toasting the board though. You can dial the right temp in for an iron A hot wax/scrape/rotor brush is around a 15-20min exercise in total labour (you have to leave time for the wax to cool though). 
Not sure unless you had it scientifically tested how good the heat gun method works with melting the wax into the pores of the base. If I have a rough guess I'd say it would be okay as a technique. 

I have a few boards come to me that have had rub on cold wax applied. It scrapes off pretty damn easily so it wouldn't really have that much of a performance affect after one run.


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## Manicmouse (Apr 7, 2014)

I’ve got the gun on half heat which melts the wax fine but not too quickly. Using the iron seems to heat the board more.

It seems like a good result but I’ll have to see how long it lasts on the hill.


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## WigMar (Mar 17, 2019)

Craig64 said:


> I have a few boards come to me that have had rub on cold wax applied. It scrapes off pretty damn easily so it wouldn't really have that much of a performance affect after one run.


Yeah, that rub on cold wax is useless after a run or two. I've got a friend who uses is before every springtime run. I hate waiting for him.


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## Scalpelman (Dec 5, 2017)

Manicmouse said:


> I’ve got the gun on half heat which melts the wax fine but not too quickly. Using the iron seems to heat the board more.
> 
> It seems like a good result but I’ll have to see how long it lasts on the hill.


Yeah let us know. I still iron but I am tempted by the heat gun.


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## chomps1211 (Mar 30, 2011)

Scalpelman said:


> Yeah let us know. I still iron but I am tempted by the heat gun.


That looks like more work than needed. I crayon,.. either cold or hot, (With or without tapping wax to iron to soften and apply a slightly heavier coat,..) Iron in thoroughly,.. Then finish surface with a green scrubby. Viola!!!


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## Manicmouse (Apr 7, 2014)

chomps1211 said:


> That looks like more work than needed. I crayon,.. either cold or hot, (With or without tapping wax to iron to soften and apply a slightly heavier coat,..) Iron in thoroughly,.. Then finish surface with a green scrubby. Viola!!!


Far less work that using an iron. No dripping of wax (though I read you crayon before ironing), no scraping, no scotch brite, no clean up. Time with the heat gun is similar to using the iron. Bonus points for not needing to buy wax again! 
*Not calling this a success until I ride though.


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## smellysell (Oct 29, 2018)

Manicmouse said:


> Far less work that using an iron. No dripping of wax (though I read you crayon before ironing), no scraping, no scotch brite, no clean up. Time with the heat gun is similar to using the iron. Bonus points for not needing to buy wax again!
> *Not calling this a success until I ride though.


I've been happy with my results. Definitely takes less time than ironing and scraping. 

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