# Carving Help with Video



## Foggygoggles (Dec 4, 2012)

leaving the terrain hindrance aside, you are using your trailing arm to swing the board over and back, giving a fake cross under turn effect without engaging the edges of your snowboard. You need to stop that immediately and start using your legs to flex the board. It is almost impossible to describe in words all of the things you need to do instead (such as correcting your stance - bend at the hips, not the waist), so my advice to you is to stop reinforcing bad habits trying to learn on your own and get some lessons. You'll learn more in 2 hrs 1-on-1 with a trained instructor than 1 million hours reading things on the internet. If you keep practicing on your own like that, those habits will stay with you for good and trust me - if you hit even a proper red slope and your trailing hand is coming out over the far edge of the board on a heelside turn, you will be entering a world of pain. I really don't mean to sound harsh and I apologise if what I have written offends you, but please just stop right there and get a lesson, you'll enjoy boarding a lot more afterwards.


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## deagol (Mar 26, 2014)

hmmm, there is not much room on that slope to really follow the arc of a board on it's carve at any real speed, at least not something in the length I am familiar with.. although it could be done. You would need to be pretty fast edge-to-edge. 

Sliding the way you did by kicking the back foot out is actually a good way to check your speed and not take out others on that slope. It can also help to keep you in the fall-line in a narrow situation like that. 

The style in the vid shows kind wagging of the rear arm like a counterweight and a forceful push forward(for initiation of toeside) and pull (initiation of heelside) of the legs that momentarily disengages the edge from the snow in order to put it in the alignment pointing diagonally across the slope where it is actually carving for a second or two. There isn't really a lot of room to let it run on the edge for any length of time. If there were more room, you could experiment with leaning your upper body, starting with your shoulder, instead of the push/pull with your legs (for a heelside). It's pretty hard to describe, though.. you want to avoid counter-rotating 

Overall, I would say that style isn't bad given the constraints of the slope you are working on..


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## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

imho ur just rolling edge to edge with a bit of skid at the end...its more of dynamic turns...not really carving nor are they cross under turns...not getting the board up on edge...in carving you got to have the speed and let the carve come to you...you are pushing the turn...not letting a carved turn develope....However I doubt u could actually carve or do cross under turns due to lack of slope, length or speed.


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## Foggygoggles (Dec 4, 2012)

deagol said:


> hmmm, there is not much room on that slope to really follow the arc of a board on it's carve at any real speed, at least not something in the length I am familiar with.. although it could be done. You would need to be pretty fast edge-to-edge.
> 
> Sliding the way you did by kicking the back foot out is actually a good way to check your speed and not take out others on that slope. It can also help to keep you in the fall-line in a narrow situation like that.
> 
> ...


To be honest, it looks like he is attempting cross under turns that he would have seen others do or on videos, which for the narrowness of that terrain is in fact the right turn to use. An instructor would show him how to use his knees and ankles to flex the board and weight / unweight properly. It's insane how many people you see who board exactly like this and don't realise that they are constantly seconds from disaster when boarding. Self taught boarders stand out a mile on the slopes, for all the wrong reasons. They don't even realise how much fun they could be having if they had just been taught how to board correctly.


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## sabatoa (Jan 18, 2011)

God bless your heart for pursuing the shred with the terrain limits you're suffering with.


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## Foggygoggles (Dec 4, 2012)

sabatoa said:


> God bless your heart for pursuing the shred with the terrain limits you're suffering with.


never truer words spoken!!!!


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## deagol (Mar 26, 2014)

Foggygoggles said:


> To be honest, it looks like he is attempting cross under turns that he would have seen others do or on videos, which for the narrowness of that terrain is in fact the right turn to use. ......


I agree with that, except I would not know if he was imitating someone else or just came up with the technique himself. The one thing I would say is that there is not enough room to do any kind of true carve with the other people on that slope unless you were very experienced. The run is short and narrow and crowded enough that you would constantly want to check your speed so as to avoid a collision.

Edit: I don't use the terminology often, but agree, the "cross-under" would be the obvious choice for a constrained slope like that.
Edit 2: I watched the vid again. Maybe there would be room for a few carved turns in there (from :02 to :08 or thereabouts)- but again, you would need to be very fast edge-to-edge.


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## trapper (Jan 15, 2013)

sabatoa said:


> God bless your heart for pursuing the shred with the terrain limits you're suffering with.


People may say the same thing about us.


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## snowklinger (Aug 30, 2011)

honestly theres not much wrong with OP's riding. 


there may be points to finesse but I disagree with the 2nd poster claiming that the body position is so out of whack he will never be able to ride a steep slope that way.

I'd put the OP's body position in the top half of what you see on the mountain.

Dude just needs days on a mountain. Coaching is cool but wtf are you training for. Ride more, ride switch, learn to ollie. Considering your environmental limitations, learn to skateboard. A summer skateboarding and you will go back to that dome blowing your own mind.

Smaller carves tend to include a little ruddering. Its not a punishable sin.


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## sabatoa (Jan 18, 2011)

trapper said:


> People may say the same thing about us.


True dat but at least we have a few mile+ long runs around.


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## Foggygoggles (Dec 4, 2012)

snowklinger said:


> Coaching is cool but wtf are you training for.
> .....
> Smaller carves tend to include a little ruddering. Its not a punishable sin.


Getting coached on the basics is vital to progressing your own snowboarding, so you have ultimately have more fun and are in more control of what's going on when you board. 
Small carves don't need to include any ruddering, there is enough space there to get the board on edge and do super short, powerful cross under turns with a tiny arc radius (not full carves, but the basics of the initiation of each side). I suppose that could be learned on your own over the course of 5 seasons. Or someone could show you in an hour and have fun working on it over the rest of the season.


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## 102633 (Dec 28, 2014)

Thanks all for your help...

I will be having another private lesson, but have a few hours on the snow between now and then so if I could blast a few more questions at you all please.

> Is there a difference between edge rolling and cross under turns?

> Foggygoggles just so I know what makes this style a few seconds from disaster? Keen not to injure myself of course..

> Sounds like I need to correct my arm swing, counter rotation and bend at the legs not waist? Any more stance problems? Did have these sorted once but it looks like I have slipped backwards...

> On other runs (although typically not recorded) I stood up straighter, bending at the knees more, and focused on pressure on the board, the nose seemed to pull the tail around and spring more from turn to turn, is that what I should be looking for? 


Another video showing the lines in the snow after a turn, seems sharp?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oreM9C1UVV4


Another vid showing slightly more upright stance, think it still needs more?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rffyFcHd1s0



Thanks again for all your help...


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## blackbeard (Nov 24, 2011)

*better*

That last video shows improvement over the original video you posted, nice work. Keep practicing and over time you will become more comfortable. 

As most people have mentioned, you are limited by the terrain you are practicing on. Once you have the opportunity to turn on larger and steeper terrain, you will improve at a much faster rate, at which point you can do more fine tuning. 

Keep it up!


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## chomps1211 (Mar 30, 2011)

sabatoa said:


> God bless your heart for pursuing the shred with the terrain limits you're suffering with.





Foggygoggles said:


> never truer words spoken!!!!





trapper said:


> People may say the same thing about us.


LoL! Yup! I was thinking that as much as we (I) complain about our small, short, vert challenged local resorts? We do get to ride some _"fresh"_ now and again, and we have a few long(ish) runs to help establish some muscle memory in our riding!

It would be nice to have something like that indoor hill for the summer months. Someplace to hit up when opening day is still months away and we need some help to stave off the "Shred Jonze!" But I can't imagine having something like that be my regular place to ride! :blink:

Kudos to the OP for gettin' it done anywhich way you can! :hairy:


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## Foggygoggles (Dec 4, 2012)

richbowen said:


> Thanks all for your help...
> 
> I will be having another private lesson, but have a few hours on the snow between now and then so if I could blast a few more questions at you all please.
> 
> ...





blackbeard said:


> That last video shows improvement over the original video you posted, nice work. Keep practicing and over time you will become more comfortable.
> 
> As most people have mentioned, you are limited by the terrain you are practicing on. Once you have the opportunity to turn on larger and steeper terrain, you will improve at a much faster rate, at which point you can do more fine tuning.
> 
> Keep it up!


Definitely far better in the second two vids, plus you can see that you are trying to keep the trailing arm under control - far far better style, well done! Especially in that nightmare situation with all the people.
Edge rolling is part of the very initial basics of the cross under turn. If you can rapidly go from edge to edge by pushing as you set each edge, then bringing the board underneath you by sucking your knees up, then pushing out the other way, you will get it down. You have to push until you feel the board flex, so on that slope push very hard immediately and you'll feel the spring - that's your sign to start the changing.
The reason I said seconds from disaster on the heelside is that by allowing your trailing arm to go out over the edge that is out of the snow, you end up counter rotated and if you are going fast, will usually result in an edge catch when trying to get on your toeside edge, plus the board will twist rather than flex, making it skittish and hard to control.

on the stance, it's not about standing straight, but you should try practice off the board, stand straight up - then flex only your knees and ankles to about 90 degrees on the knees. Then sit by dropping your hips down - you'll notice how your back, though not perpendicular to the floor, is straight, instead of being bent also at the waist. Now alternate the sitting and pressing on the knees positions. This back position is what you are looking for - you'll have far more control over the board when you get this down.

hope this helps - you are far far better than the first vid you posted, well done!!


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## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

richbowen said:


> Another vid showing slightly more upright stance, think it still needs more?
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rffyFcHd1s0
> 
> ...


grab your rear pant leg with your rear hand...to keep it from flying. Or cup your balls with both hands and ride like michael jackson or ride like prince charles...gently clasp them behind your back...you don't need your rear hand. A drill is to use your front hand to point the turns...point and reach down your leading hand/index finger about 18" off the front contact points of your nose on the toeside/heel side. Keep your leading shoulder locked-on and pointed down the fall line and move the board beneath you. But are hampered by lack of terrain...thus you cant open up to board and just let it run...best advice...get on a real fucking hill...though respect for your suffering for the lack of a hill.


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## 102633 (Dec 28, 2014)

Thanks for you info...

Should have posted the 2nd video first, guess the main difference is the stance and arm swing between the two?

So just so I have it in my head, push hard on the edge, that will compress the board and start to spring it, at this time pull my knees up (like a Pop but without getting air?) and change edge?

Foggy goggles thanks, so keep the arm in line with the back of the board so I don't counter rotate?


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## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

problem is you can't get enough speed to really de-camber/compress the board...to that you can get the spring/pop to the next edge for cross unders.

yes keep the back arm quiet...fuck even put it in your pocket and give yourself a :handy:

edit...to compress, you pressure the board...and have to stack your weight over the edge...two slightly different things that have to work together. once compressed then you release the compression/de-camber of the board by sucking up your knees...to pop to the next edge. For the most part your body is already crouched, with your leading shoulder in the fall line...and your body is mostly on the nose...but your legs via extension is pressing the board on edge. In cross unders...you don't move your weight/body fore/mid/aft nearly as much...it done more with your legs moving the board underneath you...which is really easier and quicker. Really imho you are not close to being ready for popping cross unders. You will feel the G's, the pop and setting the next edge when it happens.


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## deagol (Mar 26, 2014)

second set of vids:

Vid #1: Yikes, that is a crowded small slope !
Vid #2: looks pretty good, IMO.


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## chomps1211 (Mar 30, 2011)

Here are two, not so bad examples of the kind f cross under turn you're trying to get down! You can clearly see how these riders are rolling from edge to edge "underneath" their relatively upright bodies. 

(…This first vid, while not quite as dynamic with his legs and board? I feel his upper body is doing a better job. In the second video, the riders board and legs are giving you a better idea of what it means to roll your edges, but I think his upper body looks awkward. Even a little silly! :shrug: )











With a nice long, uncrowded run and some speed? You can actually get your legs extended fully on these type of turns. You can definitely feel what it's like to "push" against the board during that leg extension, and how the boards flex wants to spring back against it for your edge exchanges!

Definitely take this to a real resort and try it out! Lotsa Luck to ya! 

:hairy:


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## Foggygoggles (Dec 4, 2012)

richbowen said:


> Thanks for you info...
> 
> Should have posted the 2nd video first, guess the main difference is the stance and arm swing between the two?
> 
> ...


that's it exactly, it will teach you the very basics, since you will have to do it very quickly on that slope.
As Wrathfuldeity said, there really isn't enough time for a full flex of the board, but it will get you used to the feel of it starting to flex - there will still be enough power for you to bounce to the other edge if you pressure hard and immediately.
If you can get it down there - you'll be set up perfectly for doing longer, more steady pressure arcs on a mountain.
Best of luck!


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## 102633 (Dec 28, 2014)

Thanks all for your help.... 


One last question, on the transition between is it roll between edges or do I literally lift the board from the compressed pop from loading on the prior turn? The vid Chomps posted then seem to roll between but stack the edge more...


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## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

richbowen said:


> Thanks all for your help....
> 
> 
> One last question, on the transition between is it roll between edges or do I literally lift the board from the compressed pop from loading on the prior turn? The vid Chomps posted then seem to roll between but stack the edge more...


Real poppy cross under with some speed like...25-35 mph and really de-cambering the board...you will feel the board pop or go weightless and for a split second...you and the board are not in contact with the snow...verses a roll the board stays in contact with the snow. doing weightless cross unders is fairly aggressive riding...hopefully in perfect conditions with some soft yet firm packed groomed pow where you can rail turns and trench an edge...with cross under you are basically keeping your leading shoulder and nose of the board pretty close to the fall line and your body is basically crouched, compressed and quiet and your hips, quads/legs are like pistons driving up/down or sucking up and extending. During the weightless moment...is when you are moving the board to its next edge, setting the edge and then loading up the board by extending your legs...yet being mindful of having your weight/body angulated and stacked over the edge...if not you will wash out.


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## 102633 (Dec 28, 2014)

Thanks... Presume my turns on the vids are simply not aggressive enough thats why (along with the slight counter rotating arms) the board is sliding at the tail and snow kicking up onto of the deck?


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## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

really you are progressing...and what is holding you back is the lack of a real hill where you have some space to gain some speed and so that you can get the feeling of really setting an edge...you don't have enough slope, space and speed where ur at. It seems your are fairly dynamic...though perhaps really rise up and crouch down more...really over-emphasize with a drill for your turns


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## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

richbowen said:


> Thanks... Presume my turns on the vids are simply not aggressive enough thats why (along with the slight counter rotating arms) the board is sliding at the tail and snow kicking up onto of the deck?


the problem with counter rotating...is that when you go to set the next edge...your upper body is too slow...(your shoulders are too far from the board...you really want to be able to move your board with the legs...much faster and efficient). Being counter rotated your shoulders are too much behind the count...that is why you want to quiet the rear/trailing arm...because it will be out of sync with pre-rotating your leading shoulder when you go to set the next edge. Bascially you need your whole body to be in sync...and having your upper body in a slight pre-rotation position will help to set the edge so that you can immediately set the new edge....hopefully that makes sense.

one way to think about your arms...a spinning ice skater with arms out rotates slower verses arms pulled in around the vertical axis...will spin faster...you generally want to have your body fairly well pulled in or tucked. A way to think about pre-rotation with the arms and shoulders...is to think of it like doing a boxing bob and weave...with short jabs...infact you can put your hands up to your chest and think of boxing and pretend you are doing little jabs...and either for a drill extend the arm and/or keep it short...Notice how the bob/weave jab will help snap the turn. Skiers to a similar drill thing by punching their turns.


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## 102633 (Dec 28, 2014)

> what is holding you back is the lack of a real hill where you have some space to gain some speed and so that you can get the feeling of really setting an edge


Off to the alps in 4 weeks so fingers crossed for there, keen to get it right before so I can maximise my time whilst I am there.




> though perhaps really rise up and crouch down more...really over-emphasize with a drill for your turns


As in rise up in between changing edges and sit down into the turn?




> because it will be out of sync with pre-rotating your leading shoulder when you go to set the next edge. Bascially you need your whole body to be in sync...and having your upper body in a slight pre-rotation position will help to set the edge so that you can immediately set the new edge....hopefully that makes sense.


So keep trailing arm and shoulder in line with the board and still, use front shoulder to lead the turn into the next edge?


Thanks again.


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## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

richbowen said:


> Off to the alps in 4 weeks so fingers crossed for there, keen to get it right before so I can maximise my time whilst I am there.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


being on a real hill will blow your mind...have fun


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## The-Snoopy (Nov 17, 2011)

Here is Ryan Knapton's how to carve video. 






Check out some of his other stuff when you progressed further..:happy:

BTW where you heading in the Alps ?

Have a good one.

/Snoopy


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## 102633 (Dec 28, 2014)

Thanks, off to Morzine in the Portes du Soleil.. Just had a half meter snow dump so looking pretty good at the moment...

Question I forgot to Ask, from the videos any idea why between edge changes why I get a small spray of snow from near the rear boot coming over the back of the board?


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## The-Snoopy (Nov 17, 2011)

Check the vid i posted from around 1.20 where he starts the dynamic carving part. 

He starts with small skidded turns with silent upper body, and next part you can se the how much more he's up on the edge if you compare to your second vid 1:50.

Have a great trip to Morzine..

/Snoopy


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## 102633 (Dec 28, 2014)

Yeh see what you mean he really rolls right onto the edge with the ankle flexing. 

Is it the slight skidding nature of my turns thats causing the snow to kick up over the top of the board onto the deck in the vid below:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rffyFcHd1s0

Thanks.


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## 16gkid (Dec 5, 2012)

I think youre doing fine, get on a real mountain where you have room and can get up speed and I bet it will click!


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## The-Snoopy (Nov 17, 2011)

Yeah that, and him being harder in to the carve (more up on the edge), makes the edge bite more and make skidding or slashes almost not happening.

But yeah you'll improve massively when you get to some longer runs.

/Snoopy


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## 102633 (Dec 28, 2014)

Thanks all, had a look and I also think my toe edge is catching and kicking up the snow and when I ollie (other vids) I tend to land on my toe edge more, think my boot isn't quite centred. Now slid them backwards a bit, hopefully the slope will be a bit quieter next time and I will post some more vids in the thread see what you guys think.... 

Thanks again all...


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## jlm1976 (Feb 26, 2009)

The-Snoopy said:


> Check the vid i posted from around 1.20 where he starts the dynamic carving part.
> 
> He starts with small skidded turns with silent upper body, and next part you can se the how much more he's up on the edge if you compare to your second vid 1:50.
> 
> ...


While that is a good video to watch what the board is doing, he rides with legs way too long most of the time. If you watch his heelsides, his legs are almost always locked out when doing the quick fall line carves.


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## speedjason (May 2, 2013)

I think OP is doing fine for cross-under carves. Maybe just a tad heavier on the rear leg I would say cuz seems like the back edge is a bit skiddish.


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## ItchEtrigR (Jan 1, 2012)

theory snowboarding is fine and all for the forums, might helps gets his head around it a bit so he can analyse whats happening on the slope.

best thing he's done so far, even better than asking for help was being out on the hill and trying new shit.

your only going learn if you emulate, you need to see someone do it and try it yourself, occasionally get someone (this forum) to point out where your going wrong...

lessons are great if you plateaued.

Cant agree more with whats posted below



snowklinger said:


> honestly theres not much wrong with OP's riding.
> 
> 
> there may be points to finesse but I disagree with the 2nd poster claiming that the body position is so out of whack he will never be able to ride a steep slope that way.
> ...


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## stillz (Jan 5, 2010)

I would guess that any little sprays of snow that go over the board are you nearly catching your edge. It looks like your rear leg is very active, shoving the board back and forth under you, and as it passes under you, the edge angle is very low, and your old edge may be scooping up a bit of snow.

My suggestion would be to be more active with your front leg. Really steer the board and initiate turns by twisting the board with the front foot, rather than moving both legs as a unit. Also, don't be afraid to experiment with a large range of motion. If you can get your front leg as active and dynamic as your back leg, I think you would amaze yourself.

As others have said, good job with the terrain you have. It looks like you're having fun experimenting with getting dynamic. Keep it up. If you really want to carve, you need space. I've been riding 100+ days a year now for several years and the smallest carves I can do that actually control speed are medium sized. Moreover, I've never seen anyone do completed short radius carves, and I ride with some very high level snowboarders.


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## 102633 (Dec 28, 2014)

Great thanks for all your help, good to know I am not a million miles away from it. With regards to the front foot should I be flexing it more and keeping the back foot so the rear is flat to the snow whilst the front foot edge is getting over onto its edge? I.e rear foot not on either edge front foot flexed hard onto its edge, then once its initiated flex the rear foot? Thanks again.


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## elstinky (Jan 24, 2010)

jlm1976 said:


> While that is a good video to watch what the board is doing, he rides with legs way too long most of the time. If you watch his heelsides, his legs are almost always locked out when doing the quick fall line carves.


Someone cares to post a video with actual proper really really really carving then? Thought that video was quite ok actually. As in, better than at least 95% of what I see on a typical hill.


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## Demi9OD (Dec 23, 2014)

elstinky said:


> Someone cares to post a video with actual proper really really really carving then? Thought that video was quite ok actually. As in, better than at least 95% of what I see on a typical hill.


This guy lays into them quite hard.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7N03FHf5aes


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## deagol (Mar 26, 2014)

Demi9OD said:


> This guy lays into them quite hard.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7N03FHf5aes


I've seen some of that guy's vids before.. he's really good and on soft boots as well!


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## skip11 (Jan 28, 2010)

kazunori hirama. you can see all sorts of carves and butters here.


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## elstinky (Jan 24, 2010)

Yes he seems to be nailing it - extra video requirement maybe: carving like that but with a duck stance? Or is that simply not doable?


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## chomps1211 (Mar 30, 2011)

There are lots of video tut's out there for carving. Some better than others. This is one from Ryan Knapton's YT channel. 

I won't claim it's the best example or the final word on great carving technique,.. but you cannot argue with this guy's ability to control his edges! It's worth watching. Also, Snowboard Addiction.com has a pretty good intro to carving video!






Although not a tutorial,.. you can see what some _seriously_ deep, hard, up on edge carves look like in this clip!


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## skip11 (Jan 28, 2010)

here's duck stance as per request.


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## TimelessDescent (Oct 26, 2014)

The very beginning of your vid from the top of your run to about halfway down is where your best form is. I would say you are popping edge to edge decently in that portion of the video...however your lead hand is moving too much. Your back hand swings around a little also. Go the the really really really carve video someone posted earlier and revisit the silent upper body part. IMO thats what you are missing. It looks like you understand how your board pops and you are using that energy properly based on the beginning of the vid..just gotta keep that upper body silent and it will come together.


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## stillz (Jan 5, 2010)

My apologies in advance for any excessive theory and jargon. I'll keep this as clear and concise as possible.

So here's what I see going on in the videos.

To me, it looks like the bottom half of your turns contain more intensity and activity than the top half. That's why I think your back leg is more active than the front. I think if you use the front leg/ankle more actively, your intensity will be more consistent throughout the turn.

Observation: The counter rotational upper body movement some have referenced seems to come toward the end of each turn. This causes the board to pivot and provide some extra speed control. 

Suggestion: An earlier, higher intensity edge change initiated with the front leg will start a skid (speed control) earlier in the turn and eliminate the need for the extra pivot generated by the upper body.

Observation: The counter rotational movement is not that large, and is not the primary turning force. This suggests to me that you are using the front leg to twist the board to some degree already. You would need more upper body motion if you weren't.

Suggestion: You're already twisting the board. Trying twisting it more. Be aware of what your ankles are doing. I feel like my ankles close on both turns. On the heel side, I'm pulling my toes up toward my knees. On the toe side, I close the ankle by pressing the knee forward and down toward the toes.



richbowen said:


> With regards to the front foot should I be flexing it more and keeping the back foot so the rear is flat to the snow whilst the front foot edge is getting over onto its edge? I.e rear foot not on either edge front foot flexed hard onto its edge, then once its initiated flex the rear foot? Thanks again.


Good question! Yes, that's twisting the board, and it's a great way to start every turn, but there are different ways to do it. Depending on what you want out of your turn, you can experiment with a few variables, such as when, how hard, and how long to twist. If you adjust your *timing *to be earlier, the new edge engages soon, and your speed control starts earlier. I always shoot for an early edge change. It makes the turn feel longer to me, and allows me to finesse the amount of skid throughout the whole turn. Increasing the *intensity *of that twist will cause the front of the board to cut harder in the new direction, resulting in a smaller turn, while decreasing the intensity makes a big, lazy turn. Increasing the *duration *of the twist will initiate a washier, skiddier turn. Decreasing the duration to near zero initiates carves.

In summary, I think getting a higher level of performance out of the tops of your turns, as well as the bottoms, will really even out your style, improve your flow, and allow you to keep the upper body quieter. I hope this was helpful. Good luck!


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## SGoldwin (Oct 10, 2011)

elstinky said:


> Yes he seems to be nailing it - extra video requirement maybe: carving like that but with a duck stance? Or is that simply not doable?


Ray Knapton - how to really carve - as shown in posts here is riding duck stance. +15/-15 if I remember correct. It's hard to tell if he is regular or goofy.


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## mikeLA (Dec 28, 2014)

What a fantastic thread! Am I correct that your head should always face straight down the fall line?

The thing I feel uncomfortable is on a steep blue. I have to get the board nearly parallel to bleed off speed, and its the going from toe to heel that I feel so uncomfortable with. Should I still be doing my best to keep my head facing down the mountain and front shoulder leading the way as well without using my arms? I dont feel comfortable with the speed on those steep runs, maybe Im not keeping my knees bent enough. I mostly have problem on the ones at the bottom of the mountain because they are so cut up.

I watched a few gopro self filmed videos and always notice I do some stupid stuff with my back arm, thanks to this thread Ive learned about silent upper body(except for the front shoulder).


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## SGoldwin (Oct 10, 2011)

mikeLA said:


> What a fantastic thread! Am I correct that your head should always face straight down the fall line?
> 
> The thing I feel uncomfortable is on a steep blue. I have to get the board nearly parallel to bleed off speed, and its the going from toe to heel that I feel so uncomfortable with. Should I still be doing my best to keep my head facing down the mountain and front shoulder leading the way as well without using my arms? I dont feel comfortable with the speed on those steep runs, maybe Im not keeping my knees bent enough. I mostly have problem on the ones at the bottom of the mountain because they are so cut up.
> 
> I watched a few gopro self filmed videos and always notice I do some stupid stuff with my back arm, thanks to this thread Ive learned about silent upper body(except for the front shoulder).


Confidence at speed comes with practice. Just try to push yourself i little step at the time. 

Regarding posture you should always facing down and leading with your shoulder. And remember to keep yoir weight on the front leg. It easy when it goes fast to lean back and then you have problem.


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## stillz (Jan 5, 2010)

mikeLA, do yourself a favor and get a lesson if you can afford it. I am confident that I could get you making nice turns on steep blues in a single session. If that's not an option, try to get some video up. If I had to guess, I'd say you probably aren't finishing your turns on one or both edges.



mikeLA said:


> What a fantastic thread! Am I correct that your head should always face straight down the fall line?
> 
> The thing I feel uncomfortable is on a steep blue. I have to get the board nearly parallel to bleed off speed, and its the going from toe to heel that I feel so uncomfortable with. Should I still be doing my best to keep my head facing down the mountain and front shoulder leading the way as well without using my arms? I dont feel comfortable with the speed on those steep runs, maybe Im not keeping my knees bent enough. I mostly have problem on the ones at the bottom of the mountain because they are so cut up.
> 
> I watched a few gopro self filmed videos and always notice I do some stupid stuff with my back arm, thanks to this thread Ive learned about silent upper body(except for the front shoulder).


Should the head always face straight down the fall line? No, not always. As usual, it depends on what you want to do. If you're doing short radius dynamic turns, it becomes more efficient to align the shoulders parallel to the fall line. In this instance, you'll be looking down the fall line through your turns on both edges. For larger turns (unless your stance angles are very aggressively forward), the shoulders can stay more parallel to the board. If you try to always look down the fall line, your shoulders will end up countered, which will add resistance to you completing toeside turns. I tend to look across, rather than down, the slope during toeside turns.


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## 102633 (Dec 28, 2014)

Hello again all,

Happy new year! Went to the dreaded snowdome again, had less on the hill this time so got some more vids. I have had an hour lesson and you guys, as expected were 100% right, the hill is too small to learn cross under efficiently, so we worked on my stance, getting my back arm still, shoulders not counter rotated and up weighting the board. Think I still need to be slightly more upright but think I am progressing. Please have a look, its mix off cross over and cross under carves, both close up and far away.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1pFhewrY27A



Thanks...


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

stillz said:


> mikeLA, do yourself a favor and get a lesson if you can afford it. I am confident that I could get you making nice turns on steep blues in a single session. If that's not an option, try to get some video up. If I had to guess, I'd say you probably aren't finishing your turns on one or both edges.
> 
> 
> 
> Should the head always face straight down the fall line? No, not always. As usual, it depends on what you want to do. If you're doing short radius dynamic turns, it becomes more efficient to align the shoulders parallel to the fall line. In this instance, you'll be looking down the fall line through your turns on both edges. For larger turns (unless your stance angles are very aggressively forward), the shoulders can stay more parallel to the board. If you try to always look down the fall line, your shoulders will end up countered, which will add resistance to you completing toeside turns. I tend to look across, rather than down, the slope during toeside turns.


^ really good advice.


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## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

richbowen said:


> Hello again all,
> 
> Happy new year! Went to the dreaded snowdome again, had less on the hill this time so got some more vids. I have had an hour lesson and you guys, as expected were 100% right, the hill is too small to learn cross under efficiently, so we worked on my stance, getting my back arm still, shoulders not counter rotated and up weighting the board. Think I still need to be slightly more upright but think I am progressing. Please have a look, its mix off cross over and cross under carves, both close up and far away.
> 
> ...


certianly improved alignment with the board and using the radius...

perhaps nitpicky...but it seems that you are bending over at the waist instead of sinking in the knees. Ur kind of hunch over. At the start of the runs your back is straight...like it should be...then you make the left/heelside turn and it goes to shit. I think the issue is that u are not rotating your pelvis forward...like in humping or proper squat form. So perhaps be aware of your pelvis, keeping your back straight and instead of bending at the waist...sink in your knees. You could also sit/sink abit deeper in the heelside turns....just my 2 cents.

also the little bump ur hitting...its approach, take off and landing...so square up on the approach and compress or tighten up your body parts and hold them togather, take off flat and then land loose in the legs...ur flaying abit in air. Actually I ride to stiff and stiff legged...you want to loosen up.


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## 102633 (Dec 28, 2014)

Thanks, and yes I agree bit more bend at the knees not the hips... and thanks for the jump advice.


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## SGoldwin (Oct 10, 2011)

Some good videos on how to carve. Not teaching how to, more on exercises for riding standards. 
Level 4: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NcEpETXjDr0
Search youtube for level 1,2 and 3.

This is CASI - Canada Association of Snowboard Instructors and their instructor courses. https://www.casi-acms.com/index.php/en/courses


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## mikeLA (Dec 28, 2014)

Sgoldwin, thank you! Great to see examples that gave you time to focus on ankles, knees, hips, trunk, shoulders, neck, head and arms! I can now see where I'm going wrong in my riding


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