# Death from fall and possible life saving device



## ShredLife (Feb 6, 2010)

i am sorry that the kid died. i feel for his family. 

he had a seizure while riding the lift? if so i would imagine something like that is a million to one shot - that someone who gets seizures would have one while on the lift - and you can't really do anything to prevent something like that save from not riding the lift. 

i guess if you knew you were prone to seizures or blackouts a harness like you suggested isn't that bad of an idea (although it could not be built into the jacket safely i don't think), but it would have to be voluntary.


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## bostonboarder (Nov 25, 2008)

yeah a seizure on the lift,a freak accident. No previous medical history or anything. You're probably right about the built in part not being safe. I'm wondering about the legality of physically strapping yourself to the lift though.


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## ShredLife (Feb 6, 2010)

it might be legal for you to do it if you wanted to, but there is no way it could ever become common practice at ski resorts. 

as for the harness, its just that for a harness to hold you in to anything it pretty much has to go between your legs like a climbing harness.


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## Ocho (Mar 13, 2011)

bostonboarder said:


> yeah a seizure on the lift,a freak accident. No previous medical history or anything. You're probably right about the built in part not being safe. I'm wondering about the legality of physically strapping yourself to the lift though.


Sorry for your loss.

The only thing I can see as _possibly_ working for connecting to the chair would be what many equestrians (event riders, jockeys, etc) have been using and basically it's an inflatable vest that inflates when the rider is tossed from the saddle. It has a connector/ripcord kind of device that triggers the inflation once the connection is severed (riders connect to a point on the saddle). Here's an article about it Equestrians? Latest Safety Option Is the Air Bag - NYTimes.com 

Biggest thing is that you MUST remember to properly disconnect it when unloading from the lift normally, otherwise it will engage. I think motorcycle riders use them, too. However, I do not know how much protection it would serve in a 30' drop. I guess it's better than nothing, though.

EDIT: Riders who wear these vests have walked away with minor injury even when having their 1200lb horse fall and roll on them...perhaps it could provide protection in a significant drop?


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## linvillegorge (Jul 6, 2009)

Terrible tragedy and please understand that I don't say this to be insensitive, but sometimes shit just happens. It doesn't mean that every time something bad happens that we need to rush out and create more nanny rules.

Honestly, I think what was suggested by the TS would create more problems than it would prevent. I can just see gapers now being slung around the turn and hanging there in the air like morons after they forgot to detach themselves from the chair before hopping off.


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## CheeseForSteeze (May 11, 2011)

I'm sorry to hear about this what happened and wish his family the best.


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## bostonboarder (Nov 25, 2008)

ShredLife said:


> it might be legal for you to do it if you wanted to, but there is no way it could ever become common practice at ski resorts.
> 
> as for the harness, its just that for a harness to hold you in to anything it pretty much has to go between your legs like a climbing harness.


This is more along the lines of what I was thinking. I agree that more than likely it won't become common practice but If it was an approved safety device specifically for this purpose I think that for people with physical disabilities that still allow them to ski/snowboard but can cause seizures, fainting spells etc (even though this kid didn't) it could possibly save a life. I don't know, probably not practical but its constructive grieving I guess.


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## bostonboarder (Nov 25, 2008)

linvillegorge said:


> Terrible tragedy and please understand that I don't say this to be insensitive, but sometimes shit just happens. It doesn't mean that every time something bad happens that we need to rush out and create more nanny rules.
> 
> Honestly, I think what was suggested by the TS would create more problems than it would prevent. I can just see gapers now being slung around the turn and hanging there in the air like morons after they forgot to detach themselves from the chair before hopping off.


You're completely right and not being insensitive at all, this is the main problem that came into my head as soon as I thought of it.


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## killclimbz (Aug 10, 2007)

This is not a common thing at any ski resort anywhere. Hypothetically speaking, having a harness that you could attach yourself to the chairlift is probably going to end up being more dangerous than not having that system. Not too mention the scenario Linville came up with. Even if it's painfully easy, if there is a way to fuck it up, people will find a way to do it. 

I'm sorry about your friend, that is really horrible. Death related falls from a chairlift just don't happen very often. Pretty sure years go by between this type of thing happening again. 

RIP.


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## linvillegorge (Jul 6, 2009)

killclimbz said:


> Even if it's painfully easy, if there is a way to fuck it up, people will find a way to do it.


This is stone cold fact. And honestly, we're all guilty of it occasionally, no matter how much we'd like to claim otherwise. Like shit, sometimes stupid just happens and it can strike us when we least expect it.


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## earl_je (Oct 20, 2009)

such a terrible loss of life for a young kid.. RIP


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## Toecutter (Oct 11, 2009)

I'm very sorry to hear about such a tragic accident. My condolences.

I think chairlifts do have room for improvement. What to do exactly, I don't know. How do adaptive skiers get their ski up to the top?


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## vwbrian (Apr 16, 2011)

How about a seat belt for those who choose to use them. That may have kept him in the chair.
Might be a good Idea for the little kids also


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## lonerider (Apr 10, 2009)

bostonboarder said:


> In the wake of this tragedy I had an idea, what if Ski jackets had some type of built in harness with a loop on the outside that could be attached to the chair via a carabiner or similar device? Is there anything currently out there like it? I can see some obvious problems with this but what do you guys think?


I understand your urge to fix the situation... but you have to weigh the benefits of protection versus the likelihood of it actually helping (a lot of knee-jerk safety/criminal laws generally do little aside from make everyone feel better) ... the instance where someone has fallen off a chairlift when the bar is down and they are not fooling around is extremely low... less than one out of a billion lift rides... most people would likely not bother with the hassle of such a device. 

There already is a special chair for adaptive riders (i.e. people who can no longer use their legs). If you were prone to seizures, you would want human attendants anyway ... as they could have seizure will going down a slope and riding into trees/rock or off a cliff.

On the flipside... the number of people injured or killed when they were "stuck" and couldn't get off the chair is also quite high. I definitely recall a kid got stuck and strangled by his own helmet strap in Utah back in 2010. I'm sure if you googled "chairlift strangle" you will get several stories there as well.


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## Sick-Pow (May 5, 2008)

They have devices like this for toddlers in ski school in some resorts. Sugar Bowl is one I can remember.


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## lonerider (Apr 10, 2009)

Sick-Pow said:


> They have devices like this for toddlers in ski school in some resorts. Sugar Bowl is one I can remember.


Oh... yea... it's like a magnetic backpack, right? I remember seeing it (maybe it was at Sugar Bowl). But this tragically supports my previous point that the useful of such a device is limited because most people wouldn't wear them... as a kid died last month falling off a chairlift at Sugar Bowl - he was on the ski team there, so must have been able to safely ride a chairlift 99.9999999% of the time, but multiply that by a billion chairlift rides ...


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## bostonboarder (Nov 25, 2008)

thanks for all the condolences. All though I wasn't particularly close with him I've known him and his family since kindergarten. You guys are right, even if something like this were to be be proven to be safe it wouldn't be used. 
The odds of an accident certainly are small but I tend to think about ways to improve stuff through my life experiences (explains why I'm considering getting my degree in Mech. Engineering when I go off to college). While there may be ways to improve lifts, the changes would probably be impractical as upgrades without a full redesign of the whole system (which I'm not trying to say is needed). 
That's why I love this forum, the support and camaraderie is great. Thanks for listening to my thoughts out loud no matter how useless they may be. 

BTW Here is the link to one of the articles if your wondering: Worcester Telegram & Gazette - telegram.com - Nipmuc skier killed in fall at Ski Ward


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## Toecutter (Oct 11, 2009)

Would something similar to a roller coaster design work? How hard would it be to design chairs with automated overhead retention bars that would attach to the current cable systems? If it can retain people on a coaster then it can retain people on a lift.


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## DaToast (Mar 1, 2010)

I work with the adaptive program at my mountain and we require all kids and adults to wear a climbing harness that are prone to seizures. We then attach a rope to the harness with a crampon at the end of rope. The rope gets wrapped around the back of the chair. There is always some one with the person since they need someone to attach and detach the crampon. A lot of the kids don't like wearing the harness so some of them buy their own harness and cut the part that goes under the leg. That way they can hide it under their coat. It seems to work pretty well.


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## Toecutter (Oct 11, 2009)

DaToast said:


> I work with the adaptive program at my mountain and we require all kids and adults to wear a climbing harness that are prone to seizures. We then attach a rope to the harness with a crampon at the end of rope. The rope gets wrapped around the back of the chair. There is always some one with the person since they need someone to attach and detach the crampon. A lot of the kids don't like wearing the harness so some of them buy their own harness and cut the part that goes under the leg. That way they can hide it under their coat. It seems to work pretty well.


Crampon? Do you mean carabiner?


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## bostonboarder (Nov 25, 2008)

Toecutter said:


> Would something similar to a roller coaster design work? How hard would it be to design chairs with automated overhead retention bars that would attach to the current cable systems? If it can retain people on a coaster then it can retain people on a lift.


That's a much better idea than my original one, I can actually see this working. Maybe a toned down version with the same idea but less restricting than the High-G roller coasters, It could work similarly as the bar does currently, still a choice but one I think many people would be willing to use. The only problem I see is increased maintenance costs,


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## Redmond513 (Jan 27, 2011)

terrible loss of a young life....my condolences go out to the family.


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## Toecutter (Oct 11, 2009)

bostonboarder said:


> That's a much better idea than my original one, I can actually see this working. Maybe a toned down version with the same idea but less restricting than the High-G roller coasters, It could work similarly as the bar does currently, still a choice but one I think many people would be willing to use. The only problem I see is increased maintenance costs,


The Libertarians would hate this, but the key to making it effective is to remove choice altogether (just like on a roller coaster). It would have to come down automatically every time.


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## bostonboarder (Nov 25, 2008)

Toecutter said:


> The Libertarians would hate this, but the key to making it effective is to remove choice altogether (just like on a roller coaster). It would have to come down automatically every time.


 Maybe even a lap type bar, if you've ever been on Bizzaro(superman) at six flags you know what I mean. Keeps you securely in but allows upper body freedom


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## Toecutter (Oct 11, 2009)

bostonboarder said:


> Maybe even a lap type bar, if you've ever been on Bizzaro(superman) at six flags you know what I mean. Keeps you securely in but allows upper body freedom


Perhaps! There would have to be room for skis/boards to dangle below so the bar might have to deploy from overhead.


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## kctahoe (Nov 14, 2010)

As much as I feel sorry for your loss and his family's loss, the line has to be drawn somewhere, what happens if they introduce something like this you guys are talking about and that fails and someone fell and died? Do they no allow people to use chairlifts? I no its a little extreme but it's just food for thought.


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## Toecutter (Oct 11, 2009)

kctahoe said:


> As much as I feel sorry for your loss and his family's loss, the line has to be drawn somewhere, what happens if they introduce something like this you guys are talking about and that fails and someone fell and died? Do they no allow people to use chairlifts? I no its a little extreme but it's just food for thought.


Do you mean a better safety bar?


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## kctahoe (Nov 14, 2010)

Yeah a better safety bar, or a latch, or strap or harness or whatever, I'm just talking but nothing is fool proof.


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## bostonboarder (Nov 25, 2008)

kctahoe said:


> As much as I feel sorry for your loss and his family's loss, the line has to be drawn somewhere, what happens if they introduce something like this you guys are talking about and that fails and someone fell and died? Do they no allow people to use chairlifts? I no its a little extreme but it's just food for thought.


 With that point you could say that if a plane crashed, we should stop flying, no we don't do that, we improve the safety and technology to reduce the risk of another crash.
Honestly we're just brainstorming ideas for possible lift improvements, any design will have its draw backs and risks. Think about all the changes that have come to winter sports in the last 20 years, chair lift technology hasn't changed much but then again I'm looking at the industry from the outside in.


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## Toecutter (Oct 11, 2009)

kctahoe said:


> Yeah a better safety bar, or a latch, or strap or harness or whatever, I'm just talking but nothing is fool proof.


I think there's room for improvement, as it seems we read about someone falling off a lift every season. The above story is the first time I've read of someone dying though.


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## kctahoe (Nov 14, 2010)

Yeah of course I think there's room for improvement, I've been on some pretty sketchy lifts, I just think we can only do so much to keep people safe becuase you cant harness stupidity if someone is messing around and falls off or something.


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## Toecutter (Oct 11, 2009)

kctahoe said:


> Yeah of course I think there's room for improvement, I've been on some pretty sketchy lifts, I just think we can only do so much to keep people safe becuase you cant harness stupidity if someone is messing around and falls off or something.


I've never heard of someone coming apart from a modern roller coaster.

edit: holy shit!

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4369252...tee-ejected-roller-coaster-dies/#.TwZ069RSTLE

and

http://rideaccidents.com/


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## kctahoe (Nov 14, 2010)

Its not very common but I've heard of it.


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## aubzobot (Feb 19, 2011)

Last year at the Calgary stamped one of rides tore off and 10 people were injured, but only four made it to the hospital.

580 CFRA News Talk Radio


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## Toecutter (Oct 11, 2009)

This one makes me ill:

Six Flags Closes More Rides After Accident - CBS News


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## herzogone (Oct 19, 2010)

bostonboarder said:


> Hey guys, received some sad news last night. A member of our high school ski team fell of the left last night from about 30 feet and unfortunately didn't make it. He had a seizure, and even though the bar was down it could not save his life. It's been a pretty traumatic day for our small town. In the wake of this tragedy I had an idea, what if Ski jackets had some type of built in harness with a loop on the outside that could be attached to the chair via a carabiner or similar device? Is there anything currently out there like it? I can see some obvious problems with this but what do you guys think?
> 
> Rest in peace


So sorry for your loss and his family's. This was at the hill I first learned at. I like that you're thinking of saving lives, but I have to agree with others that this sounds like an unusual tragedy and I'm afraid possible solutions to this could introduce further risks themselves. Though I can see the appeal of your idea for people knowingly prone to seizures or blackouts.


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