# Is their a difference in board companies that are top quality



## snowNmusic (Aug 24, 2011)

I have a 08/09 Rome Agent and just love it. It has been a great board and ill ride it tell it breaks. I do though want a 2nd board and i'm not sure if i'm going to buy a mountain board or park. My problem is since i've been looking around is their really a difference in top end boards? The technology is the same right? Everyone is using the 'latest' stuff so what is the difference?

If you take Burtons top park board along with Rome, NeverSummer, Libtech and others is there really a difference? Sure they are different companies made in different places but the technology today id say is the same? Is it just preference like the old Ford Vs Chevy debate?

I'm looking into NeverSumer and a 2nd Rome for my second board but im undecided and unsure about above what i just asked. Neversummer sounds like a great snowboard company but if i got the Raptor or Romes Anthem for mountain would i even notice what board i was using if i wasn't told?

I am a advanced/expert mountain rider and beginner park and have no problems going anywhere. I'm not new to the sport by any means but i've never really asked myself the above question. Help?


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## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

The difference is going to be the factory. Anything made in china is going to be built with higher tolerances since the companies can afford it. We here in the US demand more money for the same jobs so the US made companies usually involve more hands on techniques and the build is different. If you take a real close look at like a K2 and a NS or Mervin, you'll see a diffence in how it's built. Other differences are who each company chooses to buy materials from. Glass makes a diffence. There is weak fiberglass, average, and good shit out there. Depends on whose using what. There is also pre-preg resin vs mix on site, wet lam vs what they do in China... Without looking, I can tell when I step on a Ride, or a Mervin, or a NS... the way they're built makes them feel different.


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## snowNmusic (Aug 24, 2011)

I wont buy anything made in china unless its the last option.

Products made in china are made to break so you by them again. Slave labor producing crap goods is not something i support.

But boards like my Rome that was made in Austria and others in Europe and America that make quality stuff, is their really a difference when it comes to the close details like i said above in the OP.

I don't know if i would be able to tell the difference if i rode Burtons best or Romes best. So does it even matter what you buy. (remember im NOT buying chinas garbage)


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## Hawkfan79 (Aug 11, 2011)

Nivek said:


> The difference is going to be the factory. Anything made in china is going to be built with higher tolerances since the companies can afford it.


Not neccessarily true, the majority of companies move manufacturing overseas to save money and very few of them put those savings into increasing quality control. Most of the savings goes directly into the pockets of executives, marketing, advertising, market growth, etc.


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## 604 (Aug 22, 2011)

Nivek said:


> The difference is going to be the factory. Anything made in china is going to be built with higher tolerances since the companies can afford it. We here in the US demand more money for the same jobs so the US made companies usually involve more hands on techniques and the build is different. If you take a real close look at like a K2 and a NS or Mervin, you'll see a diffence in how it's built. Other differences are who each company chooses to buy materials from. Glass makes a diffence. There is weak fiberglass, average, and good shit out there. Depends on whose using what. There is also pre-preg resin vs mix on site, wet lam vs what they do in China... Without looking, I can tell when I step on a Ride, or a Mervin, or a NS... the way they're built makes them feel different.


^ What he said.

Also, many boards are being made in either the GST or Elan factories in Austria as well (Rome included). Most times it is more about specific details in a board than the overall construction. Recently I find that the "cheap" boards are not really so cheap anymore and actually perform on par with most expensive boards. It used to be that you would pay more for a board because it had triax fiberglass instead of biax. Though this is still somewhat true, most riders are realizing that just because a board is more expensive doesn't mean it's better. It's all about preference, and what you want out of a board.


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## 604 (Aug 22, 2011)

snowNmusic said:


> I wont buy anything made in china unless its the last option.
> 
> Products made in china are made to break so you by them again. Slave labor producing crap goods is not something i support.
> 
> ...


There are a number of made in China boards that I would ride over US, Canadian, or Austrian made decks. Made in China doesn't mean that it isn't good, trust me.


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## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

China is does not employ slaves. Get educated. These are snowboard factories. My most durable board to date? Ride Kink. Made in China. Mervins don't last unless babied, NS lose their snap after 50 days on hill, Smokin has that warranty for a reason... trend with US? maybe...


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## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

604 said:


> ^ What he said.
> 
> Also, many boards are being made in either the GST or Elan factories in Austria as well (Rome included). Most times it is more about specific details in a board than the overall construction. Recently I find that the "cheap" boards are not really so cheap anymore and actually perform on par with most expensive boards. It used to be that you would pay more for a board because it had triax fiberglass instead of biax. Though this is still somewhat true, most riders are realizing that just because a board is more expensive doesn't mean it's better. It's all about preference, and what you want out of a board.


Yup. I'm having more fun on sub $400 boards lately than high end ones. Save the Arbor stuff. I think pretty much everyone else I prefer their "budget" boards to their high end ones.


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## snowNmusic (Aug 24, 2011)

Well we all have our opinions on chinas goods. I have my reasons for not supporting them but thats another topic all together.

This NS losing the snap...i've never rode a NS nor do i have any friends that do, have riders always had this problem? When you say 50 days...man thats not a long time. =[

The more i read i think im gonna stick with Rome. I've been happy with them.


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## BurtonAvenger (Aug 14, 2007)

snowNmusic said:


> I wont buy anything made in china unless its the last option.
> 
> Products made in china are made to break so you by them again. Slave labor producing crap goods is not something i support.
> 
> ...


Your precious Rome is made in Taiwan. Learn a thing or two before you spew your ignorant dribble on here.

You use snowboard bindings? China. You use snowboard boots? China. Outerwear? China probably 75% or so of the time. 

You want to ask if one brand is better than another and when someone says it's factory based you then say you'd never use anything from China you are a fucking tool. Get educated it used to be US>Europe>China then it became Europe>US>China now it's China>Europe>US. 

Case in point I'm riding a Lamar yeah I said I'm riding the most bottom of the barrel brand if you ask people. Guess what shits still stronger than a lot of the American made stuff. So if you want to raise your patriotic flag and bravado go for it there's some great products made here but by no means are they the best. You can see it in the finished product.


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## snowNmusic (Aug 24, 2011)

BurtonAvenger said:


> Your precious Rome is made in Taiwan. Learn a thing or two before you spew your ignorant dribble on here.
> 
> You use snowboard bindings? China. You use snowboard boots? China. Outerwear? China probably 75% or so of the time.
> 
> You want to ask if one brand is better than another and when someone says it's factory based you then say you'd never use anything from China you are a fucking tool.


Thanks for the welcome.

I've never been to this site and already people are being assholes.

Way to promote a site. Looks like you've been here too long.

Too the others thanks for the help.


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## 604 (Aug 22, 2011)

Rome makes great boards. For a little less money but similar builds check out Artec snowboards.


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## BurtonAvenger (Aug 14, 2007)

snowNmusic said:


> Thanks for the welcome.
> 
> I've never been to this site and already people are being assholes.
> 
> ...


No problem thanks for the ignorance. Stick around wash the sand out of your vagina you might like it.


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## Hawkfan79 (Aug 11, 2011)

BurtonAvenger said:


> ...there's some great products made here...


And those would be...?


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## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

Hawkfan79 said:


> And those would be...?


Signal Omni, Park Flat, Rocker Light, No Way! Snowboards, some Smokins, NS does ride well... Randal Trucks... Chipotle Burrito's, I think Cannondale still makes their Alu bikes here, Phil wood components...


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## Hawkfan79 (Aug 11, 2011)

Nivek said:


> Signal Omni, Park Flat, Rocker Light, No Way! Snowboards, some Smokins, NS does ride well... Randal Trucks... Chipotle Burrito's, I think Cannondale still makes their Alu bikes here, Phil wood components...


Chipotle Burrito's, the clear winner...


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## BurtonAvenger (Aug 14, 2007)

Chipotle sucks.


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## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

BurtonAvenger said:


> Chipotle sucks.


You suckz.


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## Hawkfan79 (Aug 11, 2011)

BurtonAvenger said:


> Chipotle sucks.


I suck, you suck, Chipotle sucks...enough with this I just want some freakin' snow...argh it's only August!


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## BurtonAvenger (Aug 14, 2007)

Nivek said:


> You suckz.


Your mom suckzorz!


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## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

BurtonAvenger said:


> Your mom suckzorz!


SO IS YOUR FACE


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## BurtonAvenger (Aug 14, 2007)

Up your nose with a rubber hose.


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## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

I'm rubber you're glue, everything you say bounces off me and sticks to you! HA


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## BurtonAvenger (Aug 14, 2007)

If I'm glue that means I'm ground up unicorn hooves and therefore I am magical and can block anything.


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## jdang307 (Feb 6, 2011)

I'll buy anything from anywhere as long as it's good. And china as long as I don't eat it, eat with it, nor cook with it I'll buy that shit too. American cars are full of japanese parts, Japanese cars are made in america. What difference does it make nowadays.

I do like stuff that's made in America though. What I do like is things like Vman telling the factory shit ain't working and they fix it. Makes me feel all touchy feely about supporting an All American venture.

But if the better product comes from over there I'm going to have to buy it. Make the US companies try harder.


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## readimag (Aug 10, 2011)

I personally dont care where my board comes from as long as it last me till I get my money out of it. There is a reason it is called a world economy and everyone needs everyone else to work. You cant just go around and say all overseas items are second to us and the same with what we make. As one of the biggest consumers in the world countries know if they give us shit we will not buy it. That is why also China helped us out by buying some of are debt up, when we were in a jam. Yes I am proud to be an American hell I do something about it then most, I fight for my country. People just need to get over the fact of where shit is made and buy it cause they like it.


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## WorstPlayer (Jan 25, 2011)

snowNmusic said:


> I wont buy anything made in china unless its the last option.
> 
> Products made in china are made to break so you by them again. Slave labor producing crap goods is not something i support.
> 
> ...


I'm sure you have a nice and shiny iPhone or iPad.

Guess where those are made.

Sorry but, you really fit the stereotypical ignorant American.


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## WorstPlayer (Jan 25, 2011)

BurtonAvenger said:


> Your precious Rome is made in Taiwan. Learn a thing or two before you spew your ignorant dribble on here.
> 
> You use snowboard bindings? China. You use snowboard boots? China. Outerwear? China probably 75% or so of the time.
> 
> ...


And I must say, took the words right out of my mouth.


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## Steez (Jun 25, 2011)

Hawkfan79 said:


> Chipotle Burrito's, the clear winner...


chipotles so good- steak burrito with black beans, white rice, mild salsa, lettuce, cheese, and a nice dr pepper


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## jdang307 (Feb 6, 2011)

Chipotle is all right I like it when I'm looking for something more healthful.

But nothing beats a San Diego style carne asada burrito. Nothing but carne, guacamole and pico de gallo.


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## Irahi (May 19, 2011)

The reason to buy American isn't that American goods are superior, it's to keep the money in our own economy. If you buy shit from lib, the US as a whole has no net change in worth (your $600 just went to another american who's going to spend that money on making more stuff for americans.) If you buy shit from china, that entire $500 in value is now gone from America.

Also, Chipotle was my pre-boarding calorie bomb of choice all last season. <3


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## Qball (Jun 22, 2010)

Irahi said:


> The reason to buy American isn't that American goods are superior, it's to keep the money in our own economy. If you buy shit from lib, the US as a whole has no net change in worth (your $600 just went to another american who's going to spend that money on making more stuff for americans.) If you buy shit from china, that entire $500 in value is now gone from America.
> 
> Also, Chipotle was my pre-boarding calorie bomb of choice all last season. <3


You've got to remember that the company is still based in the US even though they manufacture somewhere else. For example, Nike produces nearly everything overseas but they pour tons of money into the local economy around here and around the country.


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## ShredLife (Feb 6, 2010)




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## readimag (Aug 10, 2011)

Irahi said:


> The reason to buy American isn't that American goods are superior, it's to keep the money in our own economy. If you buy shit from lib, the US as a whole has no net change in worth (your $600 just went to another american who's going to spend that money on making more stuff for americans.) If you buy shit from china, that entire $500 in value is now gone from America.


While I do agree with what you are trying to get at it is called free trade for a reason. Say if no one bought anything but american made stuff (at least final assembly here) from now on. With in a year all normal people could not afford to buy any extra luxury item, ie TV, gaming systems, computers shit like that. The price would be crazy high I mean crazy high the point of a free market is to keep everyone in check. Kind of F*cked are self's with the bail out, cause that is the point of free trade sometimes you loose. Do you see what I am getting at. Also on keeping the money here trust me it comes back to us from those countries they need food, and cool fighter jets and we have tons of it for sale. Also the US gets money when they import to you for that sale so not all the money goes right to them.


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## Irahi (May 19, 2011)

readimag said:


> While I do agree with what you are trying to get at it is called free trade for a reason. Say if no one bought anything but american made stuff (at least final assembly here) from now on. With in a year all normal people could not afford to buy any extra luxury item, ie TV, gaming systems, computers shit like that. The price would be crazy high I mean crazy high the point of a free market is to keep everyone in check. Kind of F*cked are self's with the bail out, cause that is the point of free trade sometimes you loose. Do you see what I am getting at. Also on keeping the money here trust me it comes back to us from those countries they need food, and cool fighter jets and we have tons of it for sale. Also the US gets money when they import to you for that sale so not all the money goes right to them.


This really isn't the right place for this discussion, but your world view is impressively naive if you believe half of what you just posted here. Let me put this in another light:

Buy a board from lib, and the guy in the US that physically made that board gets to keep his job at a livable american wage (I don't know how much lib board techs make, 20/ hour? 30?, call it ~200/day) for another two days, that dude then spends a good chunk of his money on food, housing, and other shit that trickles into paying for other people's jobs in america. Buy a board from a Chinese factory, and the Chinese labor that made the board gets to work for another two days (at ~7 dollars a day, or much less than one dollar per hour for highly skilled labor, Source, Foxconn manufacturing for iPhones.) The remainder of the profit goes into corporate dividends, CEO pay, marketing, etc... which is very unlikely to see the pocket of another american that will spend the majority of it on stuff in america any time soon.

Your example of import tax (otherwise known as tariffs) would be valid, except that tariff rates have been steadily decreasing to ridiculous levels. Since the late 90's, import tariffs have been at less than 2% (Source: 1.2% currently.) So when you buy a foreign board, less than 2% of that goes into the US government, and I don't think I need to mention that money into the government doesn't necessarily translate efficiently to money in the american economy.


Well... that was way too much for a discussion that shouldn't be here in the first place. Enjoy.


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## readimag (Aug 10, 2011)

If you think that is why we should buy american you should read this article on why you should shop for the best price not where it is made.


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## Irahi (May 19, 2011)

readimag said:


> If you think that is why we should buy american you should read this article on why you should shop for the best price not where it is made.


There are a lot of horrific assumptions in that article, I'll pick out a few:



> The second and more likely possibility is that the money will be spent on American goods or services, or invested in the U.S. economy, either directly or indirectly.


The US has an extremely imbalanced trade deficit with China, (source, 133 billion per year deficit) which means that dollars that go to China are much less likely to come back to the US in any form than Yuan that are spent on US exports are to go back to China. Further, Chinese "investments" in America come in the form of buying up US debt (bonds and other treasuries) which has gone through the roof in recent years, treasury bonds don't exactly wind up directly in the hands of americans. Chinese ownership of american debt was only 6% as of 2000, but has shot up to 36% currently. If the US were a company, China would be damned close to owning a majority share.


The author also assumes that an american spending 15k on chinese goods (worth 20k if americans made them) and 5k on american goods is better for american economies than just spending 20k on fewer goods, even though all of the jobs are slanted heavily to the chinese side of the equation. However, history shows that this isn't good economic sense, when the US was producing more and importing less, total cost of living relative to income was way down. Currently the average household (keep in mind many households are dual-income now) spends 34% of their income on just a mortgage or rent payment, in 1960 the average household spent just 13%, and that was nearly all single income households. Source.


Anyway, I'm sure none of this will change your mind at all, so enjoy shredding on whatever you end up buying!

EDIT: I just read through a bunch of the comments on that article. Did you realize that nearly everybody that posted there disagreed with the author? I saw one "agree" for 28 "disagrees".


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## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

Mervins factory workers are very lucky if they get paid $20/hr or more. Trust me. And you make it out to be that the individual gets the whole $600. They dont. Mervin is owned by Quiksilver. You don't think any of that money goes to that CEO? Not to mention the extent of the Asian influence on snowboarding and how much they stimulate our market. Same with Europe. In the next 5-10 years, or possibly sooner, we will not be dictating the direction of the sport. Asia and Euro will. And for them buying made in US is a huge deal, so if the market there gets bigger its better for us than if we keep it here.

Can buying US help our economy? Yes. But its not going to do much in the snowboard industry specifically. So buy what you want and what rides well.


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## Irahi (May 19, 2011)

Nivek said:


> Mervins factory workers are very lucky if they get paid $20/hr or more. Trust me. And you make it out to be that the individual gets the whole $600. They dont. Mervin is owned by Quiksilver. You don't think any of that money goes to that CEO?


I agree, I don't know the amount of time spent making a single board, nor the workers actual wage. I assumed 16 hours of work on one board @ 20/hour as a baseline. Assuming the labor time is the same for a chinese board, the labor cost is $320 for a US board (seems quite high, so my numbers are likely wrong,) and, being generous, 16$ for the chinese board. The gap between those two numbers is the lost value to the american economy, as the chinese guy isn't going to spend any of that money on american imports. The profit on the other end of the spectrum will go into corporate investments, and will likely not see circulation in the US economy on either side.




Nivek said:


> Can buying US help our economy? Yes. But its not going to do much in the snowboard industry specifically. So buy what you want and what rides well.


I agree, every one purchase is marginal, the initial discussion was just about "why" you'd want to buy an american board, since they aren't necessarily better. The macro economics are the reason.


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## BurtonAvenger (Aug 14, 2007)

Most US factories pay between 8 to 16 dollars an hour there might be instances the person is making 20 but I'd be hard pressed to find someone being paid that. When my brother was pressing boards in the mid to late 90's he was paid 8 something which at the time NYS minimum wage was less than 5 an hour. 

As far as "skilled" they'll hire any idiot off the streets I'd trust the Chinese because once those guys are trained they're there for life. Chinese board builder > American.


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## Nolefan2011 (Mar 12, 2011)

Nivek, if you are going to talk about board companies, and their financial structures, at least be educated on the subject. The CEO for Quicksilver doesn't take money from Mervin. He likely receives a bonus if Mervin achieves the goals that Quicksilver sets for that division, but it's not like the CEO is some czar that collects all the monies from every entity within their umbrella.

CEOs are elected by boards and are figure heads for decisions, but they are far from owners. Shareholders however are, and receive dividends based on company performance.

I hate when people try and educate people on a subject, but then are clueless how companies work. I realize you are likely a kid, but still. If you are going to educate people, know what you are talking about.

I do agree that you should buy what you want. K2 and other companies do outsource their labor, but thats more for economical reasons and bottom line, than boasting another countries income. Said another way, buying a K2 board in the US is supporting our country more than theirs.


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## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

You caught me. I don't know how giant corps work. I'm not a kid, I just have never cared enough to learn how corporations and their extensions actually conduct business. I figured the CEO doesnt get X% of $$ from board sold, that's ridiculous. I was just making a point.


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## jdang307 (Feb 6, 2011)

I find it funny you try to lecture Nivek, taking his statement that is obviously figurative, and turning into something literal, and in the process get it wrong yourself.

You call the CEO of Quiksilver just an executive, not an owner, that is elected (or more accurately appointed) by the board. You fail to realize that many if not most of all CEO's become major shareholders due to grants and options and even signing bonuses usually(I know, I've had to review many Fortune 500 executive contracts and analyze the compensation packages). You also fail to realize that often times CEO's are actually the founder or co-founder of the corporation. In this case, that is true as well.

A quick search of Quiksilver's financials finds that its CEO Robert McKnight, an original co-founder, owns over 4.3 million shares. So this ceo gets its compensation, bonuses, dividends and capital appreciation of his shares from performance of all the underlying properties, including Mervin. He is more than your typical shareholder that you cite, his whole life depends on the profitability of underlying properties.

To quote a certain someone:


> I hate when people try and educate people on a subject, but then are clueless how companies work.


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## Nolefan2011 (Mar 12, 2011)

Nothing I said wasn't factual. He can now be bought out by the board the minute it went public. And I see points go flying over your head. The point was, it's a public company, Quicksilvers decisions are all at the approval of the shareholder. And he doesn't collect a check made out to him to horde all the cash home for himself.

I find it funny you think you have a point. My point was this is a public company. And you better believe, no matter how many fucking shares he has, once he makes decisions that compromise what the board wants, his power will be gone.

So to pose the question back to you, refute that Quicksilvers CEO isn't an execute. Then refute that he isn't the sole owner, that in fact he is a shareholder. Does he own a large number of shares? Yes. Does he make decisions for his pocket alone? No. If he did, his power would be revoked. You seriously need to learn what a CEO is in a public company. It's actually quite embarrassing that you do accounting work for large firms and don't understand this. Can't imagine my buddies at PWC and Deloitte not understanding that a CEO is an execute and subject to the same rules as every other corporate employee.


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## ShredLife (Feb 6, 2010)




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## Irahi (May 19, 2011)

Does it matter whether the CEO is american or chinese? The money paid to dudes that own a lot of stock is typically not liquid within the economy, it just gets stockpiled or thrown back into the stock market casino. It's the schmucks that have very little money that will spend every penny they have on surviving that creates additional demand, which in turn creates a positive feedback loop that stimulates the economy. Some asshole that has billions of dollars already isn't going to create more demand just because he makes a few more dollars off a board sale.


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## jdang307 (Feb 6, 2011)

Nolefan2011 said:


> Nothing I said wasn't factual. He can now be bought out by the board the minute it went public. And I see points go flying over your head. The point was, it's a public company, Quicksilvers decisions are all at the approval of the shareholder. And he doesn't collect a check made out to him to horde all the cash home for himself.
> 
> I find it funny you think you have a point. My point was this is a public company. And you better believe, no matter how many fucking shares he has, once he makes decisions that compromise what the board wants, his power will be gone.
> 
> So to pose the question back to you, refute that Quicksilvers CEO isn't an execute. Then refute that he isn't the sole owner, that in fact he is a shareholder. Does he own a large number of shares? Yes. Does he make decisions for his pocket alone? No. If he did, his power would be revoked. You seriously need to learn what a CEO is in a public company. It's actually quite embarrassing that you do accounting work for large firms and don't understand this. Can't imagine my buddies at PWC and Deloitte not understanding that a CEO is an execute and subject to the same rules as every other corporate employee.


Dude, I already destroyed your post. I'm not impressed with PWC and Deloitte friends. I am a business attorney and used to financial plan for Fortune 500 companies. Yes I said the companies themselves, who hired the company I worked for to provide complete financial, investment, employee benefit, insurance and tax planning for C-level execs and board members. Since we're throwing around names here how about I tell you Goldman Sachs bought that company out.

How about I point out that someone who tried to school someone in here about corporate matters keeps calling a CEO an execute. Twice. What the hell is an execute.

You have no clue what you are talking about. NONE. I don't have the time to destroy another post of yours. But this one statement alone would make anyone remotely familiar with corporate governance laugh uncontrollably at the mere suggestion of it.



> He can now be bought out by the board the minute it went public.


 You have no idea what a board does, it's duties, its responsibilities, nothing. If you did, you wouldn't have made such a nonsensical statement.


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## BurtonAvenger (Aug 14, 2007)

^ Destroyed!


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## Nolefan2011 (Mar 12, 2011)

I work for a fortune 100 company, own stock myself, and absolutely know that a CEO is an executive. Why? Because I watched HR take away our CEOs ability to revoke hires and fires. So if you think a CEO isn't an executive, you're on crack. Hell, the second word in CEO is executive.

I'm done arguing with Bras. No other message board would you ever find anyone arguing that a CEO of a public company isnt an executive. Fucking moron.

And no BA, not owned. Lang has no fucking clue what he is talking about. He mispoke confusing public and private companies and not is drowning. Let him sink...don't sink with him BA. I had hope you were more than just a mountain bra my friend. Prove me right...


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## BurtonAvenger (Aug 14, 2007)

Quiksilver fucking sucks and any company that could go from 30 dollars a share to under a dollar in less than a year tells me 1. The CEO is a fucking moron 2. Grew too fast and didn't know how to sustain that growth 3. Doesn't understand the market.

Industry rumor is that Quik is trying to sell off Mervin because it's not performing the way they want. Doesn't surprise me because Mervin was millions in debt and borderline bankrupt when they got bought out by Quik.


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## Nolefan2011 (Mar 12, 2011)

So you get what I'm saying....if you listen to Lang, you would believe that Quicksilvers CEO could continue to tank the company and still have a job because he USED to own the company. Guess what, the minute you go public, and ask for public money, you give up ownership of the company because the PUBLIC owns the company. And if Quicksilver crashes, there will be a new CEO, which is an EXECUTIVE level position.

BA, I'm not arguing anyone should buy Mervin, or should buy anyone else. My point was that when someone brought up the Quicksilver CEO suggesting he is making decisions for his own profit, that couldn't be more false. He is making decisions backed by board and invester approval. CEOs making decisions for their own financial gain don't last long.

But to my point about a CEO being an executive level position in a PUBLIC company, it absolutely is. The CEO is the highest Exec level position, followed by the CFO, and Director level positions, all known as the Executive level. Lang fell asleep in law school.

Sorry for any IPhone typing errors. Despite CEO steve jobs retiring, Apple is still Apple, and they have a new CEO approved by public shareholders, so maybe he'll help implement some changes


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## BurtonAvenger (Aug 14, 2007)

Well there's some speculation on what McKnight is actually doing with the company and there's been some questionable practices on his end that have lined his pockets along with other share holders while not helping the best interest of the company which has resulted in some problems. Personally that guy should have been removed a while ago but that's just my thoughts and makes me happy I didn't have stock in them even though I saw and could have gotten in on it when it was 6 bucks a share before it spiked to like 29.87 or something like that. But I will say this I don't see him being taken out of the company after all the shit that's happened to them in the last 3 years and I think that's because the board is morons.


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## slyder (Jan 18, 2010)

In 6 pages of posts there was minimal if any talk of 
The materials used.
Technology behind the building of the board
Technology in the board itself
Aren't these the important factors in the quality of a board.
Not where, who, or how much labor costs as to the quality of a board

lots of conflict in the thread that is for sure, maybe a little more to come.....


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## Justin (Jun 2, 2010)

not really looking to add fuel to this, just a question. if the ceo still owns 51% then can he really be fired? i have no idea what the situation is at that company.


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## Nolefan2011 (Mar 12, 2011)

BA, I'm with you buddy....think they tried too hard to extend themselves in a shit economy. They are now fucked. Not sure he was trying to line his pockets...more just ignorant to the fact that we were in a recession. 

Good discussion...sorry for the corporate convo...got way overblown and was my fault...is the snow here yet???


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## jdang307 (Feb 6, 2011)

Nolefan2011 said:


> I work for a fortune 100 company, own stock myself, and absolutely know that a CEO is an executive. Why? Because I watched HR take away our CEOs ability to revoke hires and fires. So if you think a CEO isn't an executive, you're on crack. Hell, the second word in CEO is executive.
> 
> I'm done arguing with Bras. *No other message board would you ever find anyone arguing that a CEO of a public company isnt an executive. Fucking moron.*
> 
> And no BA, not owned. Lang has no fucking clue what he is talking about. He mispoke confusing public and private companies and not is drowning. Let him sink...don't sink with him BA. I had hope you were more than just a mountain bra my friend. Prove me right...


I never argued a CEO isn't an executive. That is a strawman argument. There's a good chance I reviewed your CEO's compensation package, and planned his finances for the next 10 years. If not me, than a colleague.

I never argued a CEO was not an executive. You argued he was only an executive. I showed you a CEO is an executive AND often a shareholder.

You still haven't even corrected your mistake that a Board of Directors can "BUYOUT" a shareholder once they go public. Hah! You're are trying to school a guy who has drafted bylaws, shareholder agreements, taken a mutual fund public, deals with the Securities and Exchange Commission on a regular basis, produces public filings, incorporates small businesses,etc. etc. I know exactly what I'm talking about.

You even got Apple/Steve Jobs wrong. Shareholders elect directors. They don't hire the CEO. That's up to the Board of Directors.

I'm done here. I don't even have a horse in this race, other than taking issue with you trying to correct someone and being a dick about it. if you just clarified his post all is well, But you came in insulting and didn't even get it right yourself. I'm not even insulted you tried to call me a moron when everything coming out of your computer/phone is so far, mostly wrong. 

So like you said, lets drop the corporate talk, focus on snowboards that's why we're here


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## ShredLife (Feb 6, 2010)




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## jdang307 (Feb 6, 2011)

Justin said:


> not really looking to add fuel to this, just a question. if the ceo still owns 51% then can he really be fired? i have no idea what the situation is at that company.


This CEO doesn't. He owns roughly 4%, but 4% of a public company is still quite a bit. A private company Rhone owns the most.

It depends on how the bylaws are set up for electing the Board of Directors, plus how many interested directors can sit on the board. But yes an owner of 51% can definitely be fired. They can't have their shares taken away though, and will still be able to exert influence on the company.

BA you are right, most board members are yes men/women. They aren't intimately involved in the day to day operations of a company so they place heavy reliance on what the CEO tells them.

Hawkfan, the reason you can't find the $30 stock price is probably due to a stock split. So the highest price you will find will be 1/2 of the price BA probably remembers. Price quoting websites usually adjust prices to reflect splits. I bet if you search you'll see a split somewhere in the last few years.

Not for nothing, I do see that Moodys thinks Quiksilver will default on its debt placing it at the highest risk of reneging. Pretty shitty company is what they're trying to say.


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## Nolefan2011 (Mar 12, 2011)

I'm a regional director of sales. I own shares of stock, and am compensated with some in my bonus. At what point would you have thought that I wouldn't think a CEO owned large shares of our companies stock. Prime example, our CEO bases as 349K. Yet, his stock options make him very wealthy. I don't know how you didn't understand that I was quite aware CEOs owned massive amounts of stocks as part of their package.

All that said, it doesn't change the fact that once you go public, you are no longer the "owner" so to speak, and instead one of many. And you can be removed from power the minute you start comprising the welfare of the company.

Second, you don't read. Did you see my first post talking about the Board and the CEOs relationship. I absolutely said the board assigns the CEO. They represent the shareholder. Its all their in my first post, go read it.

Last, by buy out, I mean they offer a healthy severance to get rid of CEOs. Buyout was a rough term for what they do, but that's exactly what it is. They pay them with a negotiated severance to go away when they fail.

I find 2 things funny. First that you assume you are the only one that knows what he is talking about. Second, that you laughed that I referred to a CEO as an executive. That is exactly what they are in a public company, and their position as well as all C level jobs, and Director level positions are referred to as executive positions. Your packpedaling isn't going to save you from that colossal mistake. I also find it laughable that you would think I didn't realize a CEO owned shared of stock, when I am compensated with stock as a regional director. 

Bottom line, you didn't read and made a lot of assumptions. This is my last post. You have flipped and flopped more than Obama in this thread, and we're here to talk about snowboards. I've done my part to blow up this thread, and won't do anymore. Sorry for my contribution of a good thread getting way off track.


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## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

slyder said:


> In 6 pages of posts there was minimal if any talk of
> The materials used.
> Technology behind the building of the board
> Technology in the board itself
> ...


I'd agree, but you;d get a bunch of techies that read the 2012 buyers guide arguing about bat shit with fairie wings verses goat turds with unicorn dust; was it made by trolls verses mermaids; and did a naked virgin rub her thighs on it or did merlin toast it over an eternal flame.


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## BurtonAvenger (Aug 14, 2007)

wrathfuldeity said:


> I'd agree, but you;d get a bunch of techies that read the 2012 buyers guide arguing about bat shit with fairie wings verses goat turds with unicorn dust; was it made by trolls verses mermaids; and did a naked virgin rub her thighs on it or did merlin toast it over an eternal flame.


Pretty much sums that one up.


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## CheeseForSteeze (May 11, 2011)

Chipotle is alright, I wouldn't say it sucks but it is overrated. It's like White Castle. When you are in the mood to indulge in it and have deblitating liquid shit as a consequence, it is satisfying. That mood rarely strikes.


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## BurtonAvenger (Aug 14, 2007)

Here's some fuel to the fire cause I was fired up last night then went hunting for Warpigs. The Angry Snowboarder Blog Archive Is China So Bad? and if you don't like my opinion here's another Do You Care Where Your Snowboard Was Made? China? US? | Snomie enjoy!


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## jdang307 (Feb 6, 2011)

'Merica fuck yeah!

Reminded me of this video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sWS-FoXbjVI

:laugh:


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## WorstPlayer (Jan 25, 2011)

BurtonAvenger said:


> Here's some fuel to the fire cause I was fired up last night then went hunting for Warpigs. The Angry Snowboarder Blog Archive Is China So Bad? and if you don't like my opinion here's another Do You Care Where Your Snowboard Was Made? China? US? | Snomie enjoy!


Clap Clap.


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## uh oh a virus 2 (Sep 1, 2011)

You have a point their. At your standards, just buy because of the design. If your going for mt. their really isn't a difference. Now if you want to progress in park it actually matters.


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## Cr0_Reps_Smit (Jun 27, 2009)

uh oh a virus 2 said:


> You have a point their. At your standards, just buy because of the design. If your going for mt. their really isn't a difference. Now if you want to progress in park it actually matters.


so if youew riding in the park you need to make sure you get a quality board but if your riding the mtn then it doesnt matter? im sorry but that makes no sense.


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## uh oh a virus 2 (Sep 1, 2011)

Not quality, but flex wise. You don't need a flexy board for mountain, but if you ride park the level of flex and such your board has matters.


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## Cr0_Reps_Smit (Jun 27, 2009)

uh oh a virus 2 said:


> Not quality, but flex wise. You don't need a flexy board for mountain, but if you ride park the level of flex and such your board has matters.


whos talking about flex? this was a thread about quality in boards. either way the amount of flex in your board is just as important when choosing a all mtn deck as it is when getting a park deck.


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## ShredLife (Feb 6, 2010)

uh oh a virus 2 said:


> You have a point their. At your standards, just buy because of the design. If your going for mt. their really isn't a difference. Now if you want to progress in park it actually matters.


ok gaper. now we all know you don't know shit about snowboarding. :dunno:


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## Lstarrasl (Mar 26, 2010)

Just wanted to throw this into your argument


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## Deviant (Dec 22, 2009)

ShredLife said:


> *ok gaper.* now we all know you don't know shit about snowboarding. :dunno:


I second that.


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