# UPDATE! The boot saga continues... but now i found this place!!!



## Delta Z (Dec 3, 2021)

Update!! 
by all means read the thread..

However to sum it up: take @Wiredsport advise!!! He knows his boots. 
Mondo and width, both must match for your foot..!!!!
Toebox shape was also important for me..!

Finally got to Scotland 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿 and there was finally enough snow and I … 

tbc. Page 3


Hi All boot lovers..

I'm in the process of getting my first snowboard boots... and i learned a lot of things..
MONDO for start..
Why i always had foot cramps... renting size 10uk when my street shoes are 10uk..
been reading through some of these posts, and watched Wiredsports video.. cant wait for the next one..
as i'm currently sitting here trying a set of Boots on... and my toes have gone to sleep.. lol

I've got funny feet.... like most of us i guess.

Narrow boney heels, massive ankle bones, and since i'm wearing mostly Barefootshoes.. basicly Moccasins with rubber soles.. my forefoot has widened..
i won't ever go back to 'normal' foot-torture footwear for daily shoes, wish they made steel toe cap boots like this..
my general foot comfort while being on my feet all day has improved a lot..

so my messurements as far as i can tell are 27,5 mondo and 10.5mm width.. i can't for the live work out if that is D or E????? the only chart ive seen (posted here somewhere) referenced it to us shoe size... which i'm also confused about...

the boots I'm trying at the moment are Salomon Dialogue double Boa.. 2020 model (cheaper). in Mondo 28. as per Salomon size chart.
Now i tried:
--Salomon Launch SJ (Straight jacket) and laces 10.5uk... only one in that shop.... obviously felt like slippers with perfect heel hold..

--Salomon Launch SJ .. unfortunatly shop only stocked 28.5 mondo (felt brilliant, standing the toes touched the liner, when riding stance they lost contact a little.. and boot is too soft i think, i like to carve)

--Salomon lo fi 28 mondo (design fault with the straight jacket causing pressure point)

--Burton Photon 28 (pain on ankle bones)

--Addidas samba? 29 uk10 shop assistant insisted.. (pain on top of foot)

--Salomon Dialogue SJ lace up.. 28. left foot got squashed and big toe pain..

--and now Salomon Dialogue double boa 28 interestingly now the right foot is squashed and goes to sleep..numb. 15min of wearing.. 30min and my other foot start feeling funny..
now the heal hold is good, in my riding stance on tip toes null heel lift.. obviously if i just stand normal and go on tip toes i get heel lift.. but not much.
big toe is still uncomfortable, my toenail is sort of sticking up, which always makes me go for larger shoes..
big to is a little crunched up standing straight but when i get into riding position i still touch the liner with my toes, still a little more with my big toe than the rest
but better that the SJ lace up version.

strange that the foot that was beeing squashed changed when i changed model slightly..?????

Now they do the Dialogue double boa in a wide.. 

Questions:
will my heel hold change in the wide..?

how do i tell if they are too wide?

how wide is my Foot?

and is 28 the right size?

Is medium flex ok for carving and all mountain? not into park so much but like to butter (i wish i could anyway)

will they end up too soft when broken in?

PS.
when i put my foot in the shell only (double boa version) i feel the sides of the shell at my forefoot
if i put the footbed in, the one that comes with the shoe, there is a small amount of wiggle room side to side, maybe a millimeter or two
and when i place my foot on to the innersole i overhang more on the side and little overhang on the front.
ill try to upload some photos..

Hope that wasn't too rambley...
DD


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## Delta Z (Dec 3, 2021)

*order size | foot size | Uk M size

Salomon chart*


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## Delta Z (Dec 3, 2021)

Wait. Does that mean that Salomon is telling everyone to upsize a half?


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

> so my messurements as far as i can tell are 27,5 mondo and 10.5mm width.. i can't for the live work out if that is D or E????? the only chart ive seen (posted here somewhere) referenced it to us shoe size... which i'm also confused about...


Hi Delta,

Based on these measurements you are mondo 275 or US 9.5 in snowboard boots. You are actually an EE width which requires a very specific boot. This is the best chart to use: https://www.wiredsport.com/width2.JPG . If you would like to post images of your four barefoot measurements being taken I will be happy to have a look. 

Regarding the info on that Salomon page, please note what I mentioned here: 




This is really bad information from a really great company (almost certainly a disconnect between the web team and the design team). I say this having been a Salomon dealer for many years. I have fit a lot of Salomon boots for riders and I have ridden in most of their boot models. So please take this a constructive criticism.

They wrote: "To find out your foot width, do the same but using the outside of your foot against the wall. If the width is more than 107mm (4.21’’), your foot is wide. To have a better fit, you can order the wide version of the model if it available or, you can add +0.5 to your order size." ARGGGHHH!!!!! This is 3 pieces of garbage strung together . First off, 107 mm (4.21 cm) is standard D width some sizes, narrow at other sizes and wide at the smaller sizes. No one with a basic knowledge of boots would ever write this. Width changes as size increases or decreases. It is not static across the size range and therefore a single measurement could never be used to determine wide in all instances. Next up, adding length to accommodate width is always the wrong answer. This just ads the slop to the boot that we are trying so hard to avoid. Bad web guy, bad! From there, you want to measure with the medial side of your foot (inside) against the wall. That positions the ankle and the ball against the wall for an accurate width measurement. Using the outside of the foot adds variability and is unreliable.

Most importantly, Mondopoint is your actual foot measurement. They link Mondopoint to a specific US size in the conventional manner. That is correct. Mondopoint by its very definition says that a boot of a specific Mondopoint size is designed for a foot of that Mondopoint size. Anything suggesting otherwise is a pure contradiction. Mondopoint is not a conversion, and it is always accurate. For Salomon boots and all boots we suggest that you go only by your Mondopoint size and use none of the conversion sizes. 

STOKED!


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## Delta Z (Dec 3, 2021)

Now this foot measurement is taken with your riding socks on!!


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## Snow Hound (Jul 21, 2012)

Mondo 275 is either 8.5 or 9UK depending on the brand. Seems like you might need wide boots.


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## Delta Z (Dec 3, 2021)

Found a better ruler.
ps don’t run a compactor plate over your foot!!


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## Delta Z (Dec 3, 2021)

Looks like I’m an E

will Salomon wide work then? I think i can swap mine for wides with same seller..


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## Delta Z (Dec 3, 2021)

Wow 8.5 uk..! I’m sure I’d be crying riding in them. 9 feel small. But maybe going wide could change that


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

Delta Z said:


> Looks like I’m an E
> 
> will Salomon wide work then? I think i can swap mine for wides with same seller..


Hi, please post an image of the wall end of that ruler (or check to make sure that there is no empty space before the scale begins).

As presented above you would be at 101 mm which is an E width. The Salomon Synapse Wide or Dialogue Wide in Mondopoint 275 (do not rely on the UK size) will be the correct fit. You won't be drying at ll . On the contrary, these will be the most comfortable boots you have owned. Both width and length need to be matched. When a boot is too narrow it also feels too short because it is at the outer toes where the arc of the toe box contacts those toes. 

STOKED!


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## Delta Z (Dec 3, 2021)

I did do it against the wall. I can double check tomorrow. 
i have ordered the 28 in both. 
need to takesome back and wait for refund to try the 27.5


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

Hi,

Yes, against the wall is correct but what I meant is for you to also check the end of your ruler. Many rulers have a little blank space that can change the measurement. Please let us know about that.


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## Delta Z (Dec 3, 2021)

Ah I see. This is an Engeneeging ruler. Starts at absolute 0.


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

Perfect. You definitely want the 275's then. Your one foot is just above 270 so that will be far too small for 280.

STOKED!


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## Delta Z (Dec 3, 2021)

It was quite hard taking a photo and keeping my weight in the leg. 
I have a higher arch on that foot. That’s since I broke the tub and fib right through the ankle joint and have 5degree outward rotation on the foot. I guess the foot is trying to compensate by keeping the arch contracted more. Plus I mostly use the right leg(larger foot) to do most of the weightbearing. As my muscles are much smaller on the broken one..

Anyhow. i understand that the Salomon write up is nonsense.
But somehow think the chart might be right. 
because the 28.5 I tried is the feeling I’d like to have once broken in. Still just touching the liner at end. 
So if the 28 packs out half size (think I read that somewhere about Salomon boots) That would be good. 
if the 27.5 packs out to a 28. I don’t think my big toe would be happy..

Another thing I read somewhere that Salomon run slightly small and narrow.. 

I’ll try the 28 on Monday and return the narrow ones.. to try the 27.5.


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

Hi,
You won't want the Salomon's in 27.5 as they are too narrow for your EE width. You want the Burton Wide boots. A boot that is too narrow will also be too short at your outer toes. You need to match both. You are 275 not 280 (and one foot is at the smallest side of the range for 275). I assure you, Salomon's do not run small. That is bad info as well. The chart on the Salomon site is as incorrect as the write-up. It is very simply impossible for mondopoint size not to match foot measurement. By definition there is a critical error there. The definition of the Mondopoint standard is that your foot measurement (within the .5 cm mondopoint range) determines your boot size. For your Mondopoint size Salomon is noting US 9.5. They simply don't make a boot to match your EE width in your correct size. 

STOKED!


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## Delta Z (Dec 3, 2021)

@Wiredsport thanks for all your input. 
with the new measurement with the steel ruler instead of paper method my width is 99mm and 102mm.
The width chart you posted is in us men sizes. correct?

at us size 9,5. (is that 275mm?)
I would be E?

is this not correct?


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## Delta Z (Dec 3, 2021)

Wiredsport said:


> As presented above you would be at 101 mm which is an E width. The Salomon Synapse Wide or Dialogue Wide in Mondopoint 275 (do not rely on the UK size) will be the correct fit. You won't be drying at ll . On the contrary, these will be the most comfortable boots you have owned. Both width and length need to be matched. When a boot is too narrow it also feels too short because it is at the outer toes where the arc of the toe box contacts those toes.
> 
> STOKED!


ah you answered this already.

i did. order the wide in 28.
i will order the wide in 27,5 when I get the funds returned.
Thanks


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

Yes, and apologies. Not sure why I reverted you to EE. 275 at E width is what we need for you and this is indeed where the Salomon Wide models shine!


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## Delta Z (Dec 3, 2021)

Ok. I took the plunge and also ordered the 27.5. Wide.
And dam they are snug!!
the synapse 28 wide feels too high volume..
the dialogue focus boa wide 28 feels better volume and has a good square toe box.

the Synapse wide 27.5 has me feet in a vice (albeit a vice out of pillows).
from the arch backwards it has incredible hold on my foot.
however-from the arch forward, width is perfect. But volume isn’t. I can lift the balls of my feet off the footbed.. no side to side movement..
the worst part is my big toe on the larger foot..
standing normally I would say it’s curling, not massively so but certainly curling..
the smaller foot minutely curling

In riding stance. They loosen but are still touching the Liner.

the toe box is much more rounded on the synapse…

when I wear the liner only the big toe is right in the end pressing against it.
when I wear the shell only width feels good. And I have a finger space behind my heel (toes touching front of shell..) less than 15mm maybe.

might have to try the dialogue in 27,5. But it seems a little shorter than the synapse..

Now what is the overall consensus on big toe feeling in boots?


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

Delta Z said:


> Ok. I took the plunge and also ordered the 27.5. Wide.
> And dam they are snug!!
> the synapse 28 wide feels too high volume..
> the dialogue focus boa wide 28 feels better volume and has a good square toe box.
> ...


Hi,
In a correctly fit boot we are looking for firm pressure into the liner at the toes and the heels. You will and should still have contact with the liner in your riding stance (especially in a new boot). The boot will break in roughly one cm in the first two weeks of use. Also, heat fit in tour thin (always thin) riding socks should be done first thing. 

STOKED!


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## Delta Z (Dec 3, 2021)

Would I need a wide in K2 mayasis?


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

Delta Z said:


> Would I need a wide in K2 mayasis?


Hi,

You have an E width which does require a Wide boot. The Maysis Wide does not specify its width. This is also a hit or miss boot in terms of comfort due to the internal harness system ( both wide and standard width).


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## smellysell (Oct 29, 2018)

Delta Z said:


> Would I need a wide in K2 mayasis?


Anecdotal, but I found the K2 wides to be much narrower than the Salomon wides. 

Sent from my Pixel 5 using Tapatalk


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## Delta Z (Dec 3, 2021)

Thanks @smellysell.
The Salomon wide are the perfect width..

But I have concerns about my big toe.
Forgot to mention I have suffered from ingrown toenails in my youth. Not so much now but they are on the cusp.
and with that I’m very sensitive on the end of my big toe.
the 28 synapse (as suggested by Salomon) feels much better on my toe, still touching the end, but heel hold is ok only lifts if I really try. But I Can squirm about in it with my heel.
forefoot is pretty good
Interestingly the 28 holds on to my forefoot better than the 27,5. And has less up and down for the toes too.. which makes no sense..?????
have they been stretched by someone? Maybe a fault? This particular boot is from 2019 season.
i will order a different season one maybe..


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

Delta Z said:


> Thanks @smellysell.
> The Salomon wide are the perfect width..
> 
> But I have concerns about my big toe.
> ...


Hi Delta,

This is sometimes a process that rolls out over a few seasons. You are actually an easy fit in Mondo 275 at E width. One of your feet is the smallest length in the range for that size. You are coming from riding 1.5 sizes above your Mondo size (typical 10 UK conversion). This is going to feel very unusual at first.

STOKED!


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## Delta Z (Dec 3, 2021)

Well I’m riding less than 10days a season.. 

What can I do to make the boot break in faster..? Will wearing in the house help..?


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

You want to get the heat molding done right away. Keep in mind that this will not work in a boot which is too large. This is different from break in. You want to break in while riding only. 

STOKED!


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## Delta Z (Dec 3, 2021)

Oh. 
did I mention this is a SAGA.
Well here it goes. 
i do believe that the 27.5 wide Boot is the Right size..
However the synapse isn’t really the right shape for my toes..










Notice my big toe is the widest (well most inward/medial) point of my foot.
And the boot has a rounded profile. So the boot is the right width at the ball of my foot. But at the toes it’s too narrow.. so it feels too short?

do you agree?


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

Delta Z said:


> Oh.
> did I mention this is a SAGA.
> Well here it goes.
> i do believe that the 27.5 wide Boot is the Right size..
> ...


Hi Delta, 

Your is a very common foot shape and is equally well represented in the large sample groups that are purchased by all boot manufacturers. This is easily accommodated in your mondo size and your width by a heat fit and normal break in period. By all means experiment with options that match both your Mondo Length and your width but you will be best served within those options.

STOKED!


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## Delta Z (Dec 3, 2021)

Thanks wiredsport for your unrelenting stream of info.
I’ve watched angry snowboarders videos about boot fitting. he adds foam to places on the liner to take up volume in the boot.

so if while wearing the synapse 27.5. I push my foot to the outside of my boot towards my pinky. My big toe fits much better still a little pressure point, which heat moulding might take care off.

question is, should I add some foam on the medial side of my liner along my forefoot, stoping just before my big toe?
to give my toe more space on that side

and maybe some heel wedges? I did notice if I pulled my foot out of the boot a fraction my ankle bones sit much nicer in the j bars..


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## Delta Z (Dec 3, 2021)

I will try to get the dialogue in 27.5 to see.
it did feel a little shorter in 28 than the synapse 28 though.. but has a Square toe box.

another option I thought was to maybe add foam to the 28 dialogue to get a better heel hold.
i understand that this will make the boot not last as long in terms of good fit later.. but 100days is 10years away for me..!!!!
40days. 4years away ..!!
And if they lock us down this season again. Maybe many years!!!


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## Delta Z (Dec 3, 2021)

Also would a arch support insole help reposition my toe more central?


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

Hi Delta, 

You always want to start with your correct Mondopoint size. Then heat fit immediately. Thin snowboarding socks always. No mods for the first few weeks. I suggest riding for a few weeks before any insoles or mods. Without tat you really don't know what you are working to fix as the boot is still changing.

STOKED


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## Delta Z (Dec 3, 2021)

Hi wired and everyone. 

Dialogue 27.5 came today. 

Oh we’re getting closer. 
First impressions were… well yes better in toe box width! 
Big toe still banging into the front .. would certainly be an issue like this. 

I tried the shell only and I have more space than in the synapse. 
Can wiggle my finger in there. 
So I’m guessing she’ll size is good. 


Forefoot is not engaging the roof of the boot though. 
And as an experiment I put another thin insole into the shoe…! 
OMG. 
Super snug. 
No more toe I’m pact onto the front of the shoe!!!! 
Only thing is it shouldn’t be a full insole. As my toes are now squished top-bottom..

But by that I would say I’m going to try small heel lift. 
I will try to heat mold then without first. 
But i can’t see how the foam on top of my foot could possibly get thicker through it. As the tongue of the liner is a separate pice..???

I clearly need to reduce volume so my top of the foot is in contact with the top of the boot..


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## WigMar (Mar 17, 2019)

Heat molding moves foam from high pressure areas into low pressure areas. I wouldn't judge the fit of the boots or what mods might be needed before heat molding.


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

Delta Z said:


> Hi wired and everyone.
> 
> Dialogue 27.5 came today.
> 
> ...


Hi, 

This is all sounding fine. Shell fit is not useful. Get your heat fit done and you will be on your way. You can always make minor tweaks with insoles etc as you go within this correct size. 

STOKED!


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## Delta Z (Dec 3, 2021)

Wiredsport said:


> Hi,
> Shell fit is not useful.
> 
> STOKED!



Somehow. Logic would say it sort of does.. 

The liners of synapse and dialogue feel the same when out the boot. 
Synapse shell is different. So it fits different.. 

I got a smidge more space in the dialogue shell, which means there might be more foam in the liner somewhere. Think in the heel… 

But I’m happy to be wrong


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## Delta Z (Dec 3, 2021)

Still waiting for my thin riding socks to be delivered. Bloody Brexit!! 

Looks like I’ve managed to get the last pair of 27,5 dialogues in the country.. 

Now to heat fitting.. my local shop want £50!! That’s $66.6!!! 

I’ve stared reading the diy thread somewhere. 
Rice microwave in socks.. 

Now wired mentioned something about checking the squish to find out if they are ready.. 
That’s obviously only doable if the liner is out. 
And most guides for the rice do it with liner in the boot..??!

It’s fairly hard to get the liner back in anyways..


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## WigMar (Mar 17, 2019)

I feel like the squish test is useful when you're using proper stacks or a convection oven. They kinda puff up a bit and become squishy when they're ready.

You're taking your fate into your own hands when you diy. I mold my own liners in my oven, but I don't recommend it to everyone. It's easy to overcook them and leave them stiff, even if using the temp suggested by Intuition. Home ovens aren't that accurate and can allow for spikes in temp that can ruin liners. The temp of the rice sock method can also vary depending on humidity levels in the rice and the power of respective microwaves. I think the last time I did it I filled my oven with iron to maintain the temp better, heated up my oven, turned it off and put my liners in there. It can be tricky getting a hot, puffy and floppy liner back into the boot. I've put a plastic bag over the liner to help it slide in before, but I don't think I bothered last time.


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

Here is our heat fit thread. Heat Fit FAQ - Love your feet

The first item on the list is professionally done. Doing this at home often results in no change to the liner at all or stiffening of the liner and often the rider does not know. 

STOKED!


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## Delta Z (Dec 3, 2021)

I must wholeheartedly thank you @Wiredsport for you insistent advice!!

Mondo mondo mondo!
Right width just as important
Heat fit 
Skinny socks
And 
Hey Presto. The most comfortable snowboard boot I’ve ridden in… and Right out the Box.

These boots are for riding in. So walking will take a little effort. Keep knees bent..!!

Finally there was enough snow in Scotland 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿 to make it worth the trip and it did not disappoint.











Snow was good. Weather was certainly Scottish… every possible weather in a day. never ridden in torrential rain 🌧 before….


I was really worried that I would end in pain end of day one… but it never happened…!!
I did the rice heat mold (followed rei on YouTube)
And the toe Situation improved massively. Especially with small pieces of Gaffa on edge of big toes at heatfit..

on day three I actually wondered… should I’ve gotten the 26mondo instead…???!!!!??? (Prob.Pain)
and Salomon recommend me the 28!!!!!!
3shops I went put me into a size 9.5 to 10!!! Around 29mondo! (PoserTastic)

with a 10uk (11us) shoe size. I now ride a 8,5uk (9.5us) snowboard boots!! And they are near perfect.

width matters..!!


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

Happy to help. It all gets better from here. Great shot!



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