# Boot fitment issues. A saga of many boots and no solution



## arbroadbent (Sep 14, 2019)

OK. I have been creeping on the boot fit forums for the last year. I started in a men’s size 10 after ---of course--- getting bad boot fit advice. This was almost a decade ago. At that point in my snowboarding I was only riding maybe 5 times per year. I loved snowboarding but my feet would hurt after only a half a run and I would have to stop riding for a few minutes. I thought it was due to not being in “snowboarding shape” and I just kept at it because I liked boarding so much. 

Then I moved back to Colorado and started boarding several times a month but the pain never got any better. I started doing research on foot pain and snowboarding. Tried some different things but nothing really helped.

Last year I found this forum and started reading all of the snowboard boot fit comments and discussions. I did the foot measurement thing (pics attached) and picked up a pair of Burton’s in my correct Mondo sizing 26.5, 8.5s. I got the Burton Step on’s (8.5 as well?) at the same time because I liked the system. I went to a boot fitter and had a bunch of modifications done on both and felt great in the store. My first day on the mountain in the Burton Moto’s and I could barely make it down half the mountain. Had to take them off at the bottom of the hill and walk to the car without any boots. The step on’s were ok but still really hurt my feet, I was able to get down 1-2 runs without too much pain but still quite painful. I still have the step on system but I got rid of the other Burton’s the next day and started researching again and looking for a different pair of boots. 
I found some Salamon str8jkt which felt amazing. I had these heat molded and boot fit modified. They felt better but still not great. These were used, so I could see that they may have been an oversight on my part. I want to make the step on system work but not sure if it is the boot or my crap feet. I still have them and pull them out every now and again.
This year I bought a new pair, 8.5 Launch BOA with the Str8jacket, similar to the previous year and they feel pretty good but I don’t feel like I am getting the control that I want in my board. After every run I have to loosen the BOA and adjust, let my feet become less numb on the ride up and re-tighten at the top. Just for kicks I bought a pair of 8s in the same brand/everything the same, had them heat molded etc. Thought going down a size would mean better control (given the research I’ve seen on here) but felt like my foot was being squeezed to death after a single run. The toes actually didn't feel too bad or too tight but the sides of my feet were being squeezed. So now here I am, again researching and trying to find something that will work. By far the 8.5 Launch BOA feel the best but I hope I can find something that works better for me. I still get pretty significant herl lift despite mods.
I have been looking for a boot with good heel hold but pretty much every boot, out of the box I can lift my heal at least an inch or two (with it being tied and appropriately snug). I feel like I have to overtighten to get my heel to hold but when I do this I lose circulation and my foot goes numb. 
Am I doing something wrong? I think my heel is very thin and this may be problematic. How do I tell if I have a thin heel?I I've tried putting in the different mods to the liner (as Angry has suggested) but this just causes my foot to go numb. 
Should I be trying to get the 8s to fit because they are smaller and because my heel keeps lifting out? Should I be trying different modifications to my lining? Should I stick with the 8.5s? Should I try a different boot altogether? I feel like I’ve tried everything that I can think of but to no avail. 
Please help, if you have input, I would greatly appreciate. I ride at least once per week and love it. Sorry for the saga, I just want to demonstrate that I’ve been working at this for quite some time and cannot think of anything else to try.


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## bseracka (Nov 14, 2011)

For the heel lift have you tried adding j-bars yet to help take up the excess volume? I would also suggest getting some custom orthotics if the foot pain your experiencing is in the arch. they will help take up some extra volume too snugging up the fit and your heel.


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## arbroadbent (Sep 14, 2019)

J bars yes. Those circles around the heel yes. The butterfly wrap around the back yes. The green foot bed (can't think of the name) feel ok but not great. I had custom foot orthotic for my shoes but they don't fit in my boot well and make my foot worse.


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## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

arbroadbent said:


> J bars yes. Those circles around the heel yes. The butterfly wrap around the back yes. The green foot bed (can't think of the name) feel ok but not great. I had custom foot orthotic for my shoes but they don't fit in my boot well and make my foot worse.


I'd start with your orthotics...but a pair with low profile or take your orthotics with you when you try on boots...take out the stock insoles. Btw what are the orthotics for?

Then make a heel pocket using a butterfly or 1/2 butterfly. Use the tongue (perhaps with extra foam on the outside of the tongue) to push and hold your heel in the pocket. Use the inner laces and the laces, top boa of the cuff to hold your foot back in the pocket.

You want enough room in the fore front and toe box of the boot. If your insoles/orthotics are matched to your arch, then that will help hold your fore foot and toes from slopping around and getting toe bang. You don't need your foot getting crushed and thereby going numb or having poor circulation. 

Btw maybe post some pics of your orthotics, arches, instep and your skinny heels. It looks to me that you might have thick or trunk like lower legs/calves and skinny ankles/archilles. 

Another thing to think about, is to have the ankle strap of the bindings properly set. Meaning that it supports keeping your heel in the pocket. Thus perhaps the step-in system might not for you.


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## arbroadbent (Sep 14, 2019)

Yes. I definitely have trunk legs/calves from playing soccer all my life. I've tried some women specific boots but feel like my legs are just too big. I've read on hear that women specific boots have a lower cut to allow for anatomy differences with the calf. When I put those on it doesn't fully close around my leg. I tried the Salomon sr8tjkt in the women's 9.5 (which apparently is mondo 26.5 even though the epic mt gear guy tried to convince me otherwise). I was previously in a women's 11 Burton (that was after the size 10 men's 32s I started with).
I think my arch is pretty high too which is why I got the green superfeet with the high arch. I feel like those work ok. When I put my custom orthotic in it feels like my foot is cramping, especially carving on toeside edge. I don't know why it feels so terrible because they work great for my shoes (I know totally different concept). I feel like there has to be a solution out there. I have bad plantar fasciitis which is why I wear the insoles/orthotic. But....funny enough my plantar fasciitis pain is not bad when I snowboard (crazy). It actually doesn't bother me anymore because I have those orthotic in the first place. Maybe I just have shit feet.

Ha. I tried to take a pic of my heel but? Idk how to get a good look at it?


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## arbroadbent (Sep 14, 2019)

wrathfuldeity said:


> Another thing to think about, is to have the ankle strap of the bindings properly set. Meaning that it supports keeping your heel in the pocket. Thus perhaps the step-in system might not for you.



What does this mean exactly? I have the newer now yes binding system which is the best I have ever had for bindings. I've tried a lot of Burton bindings etc and some flows. Is there a different strap I should look into? The now strap is kind of rubber-like which I'm not accustomed to. Also, the other strap I like that at goes on the tip of toes instead of over the top like older bindings. 
I try not to tighten too much as I've read on here overtightening can cause problems too.


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## arbroadbent (Sep 14, 2019)

Here's my best go at pictures....








And orthotic
















And just for reference all the other custom footbed I've had


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## Snow Hound (Jul 21, 2012)

Man your situation sucks balls. I've not got much to offer as I got lucky with my 2nd set of boots and have worn Salomon since. Malumutes (at least mine from a couple of seasons ago) have some things going on to combat heel lift. Velcro type stuff in the heel area between liner and shell to hold the liner in place, then some kind of grippy material inside the liner to grip your heel and finally a strap inside the shell that goes over the liner to hold your foot down and back. I'm not sure if those features are on any other models - I don't think my Synapse had the strap but they were from 8 or so years ago. Worth having a look at the recent high end Salomons incase you can make them work. BTW I have big calfs and relatively skinny ankles.


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## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

arbroadbent said:


> Yes. I definitely have trunk legs/calves from playing soccer all my life. I've tried some women specific boots but feel like my legs are just too big. I've read on hear that women specific boots have a lower cut to allow for anatomy differences with the calf. When I put those on it doesn't fully close around my leg. I tried the Salomon sr8tjkt in the women's 9.5 (which apparently is mondo 26.5 even though the epic mt gear guy tried to convince me otherwise). I was previously in a women's 11 Burton (that was after the size 10 men's 32s I started with).
> I think my arch is pretty high too which is why I got the green superfeet with the high arch. I feel like those work ok. When I put my custom orthotic in it feels like my foot is cramping, especially carving on toeside edge. I don't know why it feels so terrible because they work great for my shoes (I know totally different concept). I feel like there has to be a solution out there. I have bad plantar fasciitis which is why I wear the insoles/orthotic. But....funny enough my plantar fasciitis pain is not bad when I snowboard (crazy). It actually doesn't bother me anymore because I have those orthotic in the first place. Maybe I just have shit feet.
> 
> Ha. I tried to take a pic of my heel but? Idk how to get a good look at it?





arbroadbent said:


> What does this mean exactly? I have the newer now yes binding system which is the best I have ever had for bindings. I've tried a lot of Burton bindings etc and some flows. Is there a different strap I should look into? The now strap is kind of rubber-like which I'm not accustomed to. Also, the other strap I like that at goes on the tip of toes instead of over the top like older bindings.
> I try not to tighten too much as I've read on here overtightening can cause problems too.


Take an old pair of your ortho's and grind/sand them down on the bottom to reduce the volume and thus have more room for your instep. But first!...shape the blocky ortho's so that they will fit inside your liners. And/or take your best fitting pair of ortho's to REI or a mountian boot core shop and compare aftermarket insoles to your ortho's and try to get a very close fit...again you will probably need to grind, cut and shape the new aftermarket insoles to be like your ortho's...but have the shape/support of your ortho's but less volume/lower profile.

Binding straps can be adjusted up or down...vertically. Some binding straps tend to sit low and thus go more over where your instep meets your ankle. Thus raising or figuring out to get the ankle strap just a few mm or 0.5 cm higher...to get it off the instep to a tad higher on the ankle can help.

The thing to think about with boot fitting is: "A little goes along way." Boot fitting is a process and can take some time and perhaps many trials. There have been times, I've taken scissors, foam, sharpie, tape, sanding paper, razer blade to the hill...do a run or two...back to the lodge to do some minor adjustments...rinse and repeat through out the day. This is because with trying to get a snug performance fit...just a tiny adjustment can make the difference between heavenly slippers or cloven hoofs. lol

In fact this past week on a pair of AT boots that have 3 seasons on...still did just a tad of adjustment of a cable...maybe 1-2mm longer so that they were not so pinchy. And heat moulded a spot on the boot shell to get maybe 0.5mm more...and I took the dremel sander to my both my big toe and a 2nd toe to to grind off a developing callous. Happy feet = Happy riding.


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## arbroadbent (Sep 14, 2019)

wrathfuldeity said:


> Binding straps can be adjusted up or down...vertically. Some binding straps tend to sit low and thus go more over where your instep meets your ankle. Thus raising or figuring out to get the ankle strap just a few mm or 0.5 cm higher...to get it off the instep to a tad higher on the ankle can help.


I love this idea. I just need to figure out how to get it to move up a bit. 


And I don't know if I have the guts to grind down a pair of my orthotic but man I'm tempted. I was looking at the remind insoles. Any idea if Colorado retailers have em in store to try on?
Also saw a pair of boots that had velcro holding down the liner. Anyone ever tried this? Think it might work or just cause another hot spot issue?


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## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

arbroadbent said:


> I love this idea. I just need to figure out how to get it to move up a bit.
> 
> 
> And I don't know if I have the guts to grind down a pair of my orthotic but man I'm tempted. I was looking at the remind insoles. Any idea if Colorado retailers have em in store to try on?
> Also saw a pair of boots that had velcro holding down the liner. Anyone ever tried this? Think it might work or just cause another hot spot issue?



Grind away, you got several pair. Your ortho's look like they are for shoes...but the inside of your liners are made for feet...or at least an insole. So you have to shape the bottom and particularly the heel so that its not so blocky and will fit in your liner. Then grind down the bottom of your ortho to get some space/volume. Heck you could take your boots/liner and ortho to your ortho guy and have them fit your ortho to the liner.

As for the ankle strap either make an extension plate or drill a hole higher up on the heel cup (which I've done with a metal heel cup). You might need a slightly longer strap/ladder.

If you are around Breck...make an appointment and go see @BurtonAvenger ...the Angry Snowboarder.


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## arbroadbent (Sep 14, 2019)

wrathfuldeity said:


> you are around Breck...make an appointment and go see @BurtonAvenger ...the Angry Snowboarder


I didn't know that he did custom boot fitment. I've watched all his videos. What shop is he in? 
I went to Larry's boot fitter in boulder. They mostly do ski boots although they say they do snowboard boots. I got pretty close with them but couldn't get the right fit.
How about custom orthotic out of a boot shop? I'm skeptical on that. I should just suck it up and take my snowboard boots into my podiatrist. I just don't have one in Colorado yet. 
Have to look at the bindings see if I can throw a hole up higher. Will it weaken them?


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## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

arbroadbent said:


> I didn't know that he did custom boot fitment. I've watched all his videos. What shop is he in?
> I went to Larry's boot fitter in boulder. They mostly do ski boots although they say they do snowboard boots. I got pretty close with them but couldn't get the right fit.
> How about custom orthotic out of a boot shop? I'm skeptical on that. I should just suck it up and take my snowboard boots into my podiatrist. I just don't have one in Colorado yet.
> Have to look at the bindings see if I can throw a hole up higher. Will it weaken them?


Drilling did not weaken them...but they were old drakes with the metal heel cups. If you got nylon/plastic bindings, I'd use an old ladder strap cut in to a couple of pieces. Square or angle off the bottom end of a piece so that it sticks up vertically a bit and then drill a hole and use a pronged t-nut to attach the regular strap a bit higher. Or perhaps a piece of triangled shape 3/8" alumumium plate that sticks up and attach the plate with the old binding holes and another hole or two higher up to reattach the straps. It might look funny...personally I don't care cause I'm after performance and fit....and if you can shred around all day in comfort...there's nothing sicker.


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## arbroadbent (Sep 14, 2019)

wrathfuldeity said:


> comfort...there's nothing sicker.


Ok. So totally agree. I just adjusted the strap up a few mm and its amazing. Could hardly make the 1st run but 2nd with adjustments. Amazing. Now I'm getting somewhere. Love love the suggestions. Pushhin heel vs. Foot at the arch. Wow. Who would think something so little.


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## arbroadbent (Sep 14, 2019)

Ok something very strange happened after my ride Wednesday. I don't think it was the strap adjustments but I can't say for certain. 

My foot on the big toe side on top has been numb ever since I rode that day. It doesn't hurt but it feels like when you get a numbing shot. Anyone ever get that? Its been one full day now and I thought it would go away by now. It's just so bizarre.


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## Myoko (Dec 11, 2018)

Not a boot expert, but boots getting loose at the top and needing to be retightened if you are wanting more control is the case for most riders, even if they don't know it I have found. Everyone simply adjusts their riding to it and it leads to a delay in your turns. That problem at least is easily fixed with a pair of 'Strapins' I found, same solution with over tightening which will certainly cause pain in your foot depending on your boots. Whatever works works, I have no problem altering a boot in need, and they all eventually will need altering I reckon, or throwing away. Just glad you're winning, riding with pain is the pits.


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## arbroadbent (Sep 14, 2019)

I have thought about those. You think I could try some ratchet straps or something to that effect to get the same feel and see if it helps? I might as well try it. I'm going up to Vail and Beaver Creek this next week and we have mad crazy mountain time which I'm really looking forward to. 
We are also going to be doing some Skibiking which is adaptive for my husband, but I couldn't let him have all the fun and I bought myself a bike too.


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## Myoko (Dec 11, 2018)

Sounds like fun! I don't know about other types of straps, see what other people say about Strapins maybe. I would think length, thickness, width, strength and not damaging a boot would be main consideration but I reckon anything that closes the gap at the top of the boot when you initiate a turn would make a difference.


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