# Burton goes oversees



## snoeboarder (Sep 19, 2008)

*Burton Moving Snowboard Production Out of Vermont*

South Burlington, VT - Burton Snowboards announced today that the company is closing its South Burlington manufacturing facility and moving all snowboard production to an Austrian plant by sometime in June.


Forty-three jobs are expected to be eliminated at its Vermont facility. Research and development will remain in Vermont, relocating from the Burton Manufacturing Center (BMC) in South Burlington to the company's global headquarters.

“It makes the most economic sense to produce all of our high-end snowboards in Austria. Here in Vermont, we will continue to focus on advanced product development, which will allow us to bring the latest snowboard technology to riders faster than ever before," said Burton CEO Laurent Potdevin.

"When I started Burton Snowboards in 1977, all we did was make snowboards in Vermont," said Jake Burton Carpenter, Founder and Chairman of Burton Snowboards. "Thanks to the BMC staff, we've excelled at prototyping and developing product in Vermont, which is why all four Burton Olympic halfpipe medals were won on snowboards coming out of our local factory. But simply put, it costs us significantly more to produce a board in Vermont than we are capable of selling it for, and sadly, this is not sustainable in the current economy."

Burton has been making lower-end snowboards in Austria for the past 25 years. The company's Vermont facility currently manufactures its high-end boards.

Burton Moving Snowboard Production Out of Vermont :: First Tracks!! Online Ski Magazine :: The ski and snowboard world at your keyboard


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## legallyillegal (Oct 6, 2008)

looking forward to some price decreases since it's sooooooooooo much cheaper to build at GST in Austria........


haha fat fucking chance


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## jliu (Jan 20, 2009)

labour rates and economies of scale must be huge to offset logistical costs...this is just gonna add fuel to the already burning burton hate...hah


off topic question...does burton have any other north american factory for snowboards other than BMC? Cause my 2008 custom has a stamp that says "made in Canada"...lol


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## sepdxsnwbrdr (Feb 5, 2010)

Fuck Burton.

Support snowboard companies that manufacture thier boards in the USA.

I am so glad mine was hand made in Lake Tahoe, USA.


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## snoeboarder (Sep 19, 2008)

sepdxsnwbrdr said:


> I am so glad mine was hand made in Lake Tahoe, USA.


me too man, USA ... i love dropping the line ... hand built... in colorado


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## Frozen208 (Dec 27, 2008)

sepdxsnwbrdr said:


> Fuck Burton.
> 
> Support snowboard companies that manufacture thier boards in the USA.
> 
> I am so glad mine was hand made in Lake Tahoe, USA.


Is there a list of companies that make their boards in the USA?


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## Mysticfalcon (Nov 27, 2007)

I know a bunch of guys that worked there but they all got out a few years ago. Now all that they were making was the one off pro type boards. It hasnt been a consumer board factory in years. What they are doing now is just getting rid of the extra production line that didnt do much in the way of production. That said I really think the loss of that is going to really hurt their sales especially in this area.


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## Mysticfalcon (Nov 27, 2007)

Never Summer
Smokin
Venture
Voile (splits only) 
not sure about others but those are the ones I have ridden. All are much more nicely constructed than the super high production boards of the bigger companies.


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## sedition (Feb 8, 2007)

Snowboard work will move to Austria - The Boston Globe


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## Zee (Feb 21, 2008)

I was surprised to see the Rome Postermania I bought was made in Austria. It's well made though. I wonder if they will be pressed in the same factory. Wouldn't that be funny...


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## Guest (Mar 17, 2010)

Mysticfalcon said:


> Never Summer
> Smokin
> Venture
> Voile (splits only)
> not sure about others but those are the ones I have ridden. All are much more nicely constructed than the super high production boards of the bigger companies.


Also add Lib Tech/Gnu, and Signal.


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## Camor (Jan 28, 2010)

This makes me sad...

I think they got serious problems if they can't maintain a single US factory when charing 700 to 1500 per board. that's crazy.


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## B-Rad (Feb 18, 2010)

cockmasters..I'm glad there are other/better choices out there.


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## campfortune (Apr 22, 2008)

Camor said:


> This makes me sad...
> 
> I think they got serious problems if they can't maintain a single US factory when charing 700 to 1500 per board. that's crazy.


problems? maybe just greeed.


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## BurtonAvenger (Aug 14, 2007)

You guys need to realize that one they're in VT which is a horrible state to run a business in, 2 material costs coupled with shipping costs suck right now 3 globalization has made things cheaper to be built over seas. 4. americans suck


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## Sam I Am (Sep 9, 2009)

BurtonAvenger said:


> 4. I suck


Fixed that for you.


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## Snowfox (Dec 26, 2009)

Eh, it's simple business. Probably cheaper over there...

It'd be nice to be able to keep things in the region, but at the same time I have problems trying to blame manufacturers for this... :dunno:


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## Bones (Feb 24, 2008)

campfortune said:


> problems? maybe just greeed.


Let's face it, America/Canada are expensive places to manufacture stuff. My town has 4 bus drivers who made over $100K last year! Just saying, it's hard to be globally competitive when the average national salary is $54K (in Canada anyway)


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## nzboardlife (Mar 25, 2008)

Too be perfectly honest i don't care where my boards are made


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## burritosandsnow (Nov 22, 2008)

I want one made on the moon so itll be super light!!


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## T.J. (Aug 28, 2007)

i can see both sides of this. Yes, of course it sucks that 43 people will lose their jobs. this certainly isnt going to give Burton the employer of the year award. BUT, like mystic said, this was only a very small percentage of their current production. The majority of their manufacturing already takes place outside of the US. who is really upset that the $900 vapor is going to be made in austria and not the usa now? no one.


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## david_z (Dec 14, 2009)

Snowolf said:


> Not to mention that in Austria, where there is universal single payer health care, the company is not burdened with paying outrageous and ever rising insurance premiums to cover its workers.....


I've gotta call you out on this wolfie --- Although the fact of the matter is that the company isn't writing a check, the competitive environment in these countries is such (i.e., affects everyone, equally) that this isn't a competitive advantage that goes straight to the bottom line. It just gets competed away.

In these instances, everyone is burdened by health care costs; the costs are borne by the _entire economy_ by higher tax rates and also borne disproportionately by the unemployed in the form of (often) higher unemployment rates. (The pre-crash unemployment rates in most of "developed" Europe like France/Germany was typically around 9-10%, or _double_ the average unemployment rate 4-5% in the US.)

But I digress...


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## jgsqueak (Mar 9, 2010)

It's funny how people slam one brand or another usually but saying, "their boards are crap, they fall apart" etc. It might help them to know that over 50% of snowboards come from the same Austrian factory. Chances are the boards these guys are riding (and love) were made buy the same people as the boards they are slamming. Sure, technologies are different, but technologies don't really breakdown (has anyone ever seen Magnatraction turn into a radial sidecut?), it is the raw materials in the board and means by which they are held together that breakdown and fall apart...these are factory issues, not brand issues.


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## ComeBack_Kid (May 27, 2009)

BurtonAvenger said:


> 4. americans suck


All the losers(thats you) hate the greats at the top(thats America).

Btw, an American invented snowboarding. So honestly, just say thank you and then go fuck yourself :laugh:


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## killclimbz (Aug 10, 2007)

It makes sense. Austria is where a ton of boards are made for several companies. Plus, Burton very much is an international player in board sales. It's cheaper for them to build boards and export them back to the USA than to build them here and ship them to Europe. You avoid most of the import/export taxes by building a product and shipping it within the EU. 

Really, I don't have much of a problem with this. Austria also has the talent pool to draw from for this large of a manufacturing operation.


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## david_z (Dec 14, 2009)

what about most of the Burton boards, already mfg in Europe, which cost an arm and a leg more over there? The Burton Mayhem has a $400 MSRP and it lists in Euro websites for 400 Euro, given the exchange rate that's 25% more than it costs here!

Interested also to see what sort of impact this has on pricing in the U.S., if these are now all treated as imports, I have no idea what sort of trade agreements we have with the EU and what sort of duties/taxes might be imposed.


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## Leo (Nov 24, 2009)

OMFG!!! Burton is moving production overseas!!! How dare they turn their backs on us Americans!?!

I'm so mad that I'm going to buy a big fucking American muscle SUV that was built in Mexico to show my patriotism!









Moral of the story: Big fucking surprise. I'm glad that you're offended by this while you drive in your Ford Focus. Off-shoring sucks balls, but almost all big brand American manufacturers do this.


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## tooscoops (Aug 17, 2007)

indeed. but until you spell overseas correct, we can't take it seriously. i keed, i keed. spelling isn't all that important.

but yeah. it would be nice to build here.. but if they build better boards, cheaper with less taxation on the factory.... why the hell wouldn't they do it?

eventually, big bad (north) america is going to lose all their jobs in production due to these simple facts. then, lots of people will be without jobs. then... hopefully the governments will find some ways to keep what little money we have in our pockets. and maybe by then we'll stop being such crazy consumers after seeing what can happen.

heh.. of course... that will happen.


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## burritosandsnow (Nov 22, 2008)

jgsqueak said:


> It's funny how people slam one brand or another usually but saying, "their boards are crap, they fall apart" etc. It might help them to know that over 50% of snowboards come from the same Austrian factory. Chances are the boards these guys are riding (and love) were made buy the same people as the boards they are slamming. Sure, technologies are different, but technologies don't really breakdown (has anyone ever seen Magnatraction turn into a radial sidecut?), it is the raw materials in the board and means by which they are held together that breakdown and fall apart...these are factory issues, not brand issues.


thats good logic but false .. even though boards may be produced in the same factory its still the board company that dictates the materials used ... if brand a uses the "best" materials and brand b uses "something we got on clearance" board quality will be different regardless of being made in the same factory


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## COB (Mar 6, 2009)

I was in Shenyang, China, on business in February. One factory I visited makes steel valves for a Korean company. I was with the Korean owner, he has two factories in Korea.

He told me the employess in the Shenyang, China, facility make $200.00 a month, they work a 40 hour week. These were skilled workers, running cold forging machines, lathes, etc. 

About a dollar an hour for skilled labor? Let's just say that if I were working in that Austrian factory that makes snowboards, I wouldn't be making any long-term financial decisions based on my job staying in Austria.


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## DC5R (Feb 21, 2008)

david_z said:


> Interested also to see what sort of impact this has on pricing in the U.S., if these are now all treated as imports, I have no idea what sort of trade agreements we have with the EU and what sort of duties/taxes might be imposed.


I don't think trade agreements exist for finished products. What will probably happen will be all the parts will be manufactured in Austria and then shipped back to North America where the final product will be assembled. This usually bypasses import taxes as components themselves aren't normally taxed. A Made in America sticker will be slapped on the product afterwards and many will be none the wiser. A lot of companies do this now.


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## david_z (Dec 14, 2009)

true, that's what most of the automakers do.


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## Flick Montana (Jul 9, 2007)

What's the big deal? Nothing is made in America anymore except for those little stickers that say, "Made in America".

We're a nation of consumers, not producers.


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## jgsqueak (Mar 9, 2010)

Burton's pricing is down for 2011. For example the Custom X is down $80, sure $650 is still a lot for a board but it is well under the $700 mark.


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## burritosandsnow (Nov 22, 2008)

COB said:


> I was in Shenyang, China, on business in February. One factory I visited makes steel valves for a Korean company. I was with the Korean owner, he has two factories in Korea.
> 
> He told me the employess in the Shenyang, China, facility make $200.00 a month, they work a 40 hour week. These were skilled workers, running cold forging machines, lathes, etc.
> 
> About a dollar an hour for skilled labor? Let's just say that if I were working in that Austrian factory that makes snowboards, I wouldn't be making any long-term financial decisions based on my job staying in Austria.


Ill preface my own reply to this by saying lets try to keep this non political. This isnt political its purely a numbers game. Two hundred American is a sweet bargain buts that not to say that those workers are unfairly paid. IF the standard of living puts the annual household income at $80 a month than $200 is rolling fat for them. THATS why its so easy for companies to go overseas. If we werent so damn stingy with our pennies over here and willing to only buy a product from a place that can sell it at its absolutely lowest price then off shore manufacturing wouldnt be so inviting. Yes however you are right I wouldnt be going and looking for a bigger house if I were one of those Austrians lol. In fact the conspiracy side of me thinks that China is the final plan but its easier and better PR for Burton to say were moving to Austria. Down the road when they shift to China no US jobs will be affected so there wont be an announcement. Again just the conspiracy thought process no evidence.


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## Leo (Nov 24, 2009)

burritosandsnow said:


> Two hundred American is a sweet bargain buts that not to say that those workers are unfairly paid. IF the standard of living puts the annual household income at $80 a month than $200 is rolling fat for them.


Careful with that thought. A certain country's standard of living might not be such a great one. For America, the standard of living is owning a 2 bedroom house, one television set, and one car. Or something very similar to that. In contrast, China's standard of living might be more along the lines of having one meal and a bath every day (grossly exaggerated, but for argument's sake). The biggest factor you have to consider is the laws. America's minimum wage is set to make life "livable" (in quotes due to subjectivity). China on the other hand, has one of the lowest minimum wages in the world. A Chinese worker making minimum wage can barely survive. This is why these factories often provide "housing". I quote housing because they are actually worse than most prisons with 20 or more people crammed into an area less than a standard American apartment. Well, actually American companies provide much better housing. Chinese companies are far worse and that is to their own people. Think about it, if you have to rely on your employer to give you housing, how much power do you think you have? Would you dare ask for a raise?


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## burritosandsnow (Nov 22, 2008)

Leo said:


> Careful with that thought. A certain country's standard of living might not be such a great one. For America, the standard of living is owning a 2 bedroom house, one television set, and one car. Or something very similar to that. In contrast, China's standard of living might be more along the lines of having one meal and a bath every day (grossly exaggerated, but for argument's sake). The biggest factor you have to consider is the laws. America's minimum wage is set to make life "livable" (in quotes due to subjectivity). China on the other hand, has one of the lowest minimum wages in the world. A Chinese worker making minimum wage can barely survive. This is why these factories often provide "housing". I quote housing because they are actually worse than most prisons with 20 or more people crammed into an area less than a standard American apartment. Well, actually American companies provide much better housing. Chinese companies are far worse and that is to their own people. Think about it, if you have to rely on your employer to give you housing, how much power do you think you have? Would you dare ask for a raise?


yes for sure I do understand its all relative but my point was even if standard means living in a home with shit on the floor at least if you make more than standard you got a really nice hardwood floor covered in shit


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## Leo (Nov 24, 2009)

burritosandsnow said:


> yes for sure I do understand its all relative but my point was even if standard means living in a home with shit on the floor at least if you make more than standard you got a really nice hardwood floor covered in shit


LoL! Touche my friend :laugh:


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## jgsqueak (Mar 9, 2010)

burritosandsnow said:


> thats good logic but false .. even though boards may be produced in the same factory its still the board company that dictates the materials used ... if brand a uses the "best" materials and brand b uses "something we got on clearance" board quality will be different regardless of being made in the same factory


When was the last time you visited GST in Austria? What goes into a board? *Wood Core* - Most of the "quality wood" out there comes from the same tree from the same part of the globe. *Fiberglass* - no company has a top secret glass formula...sure some integrate other materials (carbon, etc.) but that is no secret either. Edges - Brass, Stainless, or just plain steel edges are the only variation here. Does Rome have secret steel compound that no one knows about? *Base* - Extruded or Sintered...there is a base compound that everyone works with, companies only add to it to get that Teflon Wax-Impregnated Fusion Sintered base (which doesn't make you go any faster than a freshly tuned sintered base).

Basically there is a level playing field with the materials that go into a board (sure there is some variance to the manner in which they are put together, i.e. technology), for the most part, wood is wood, edges are edges, and base is base. Companies bring production to GST (or Elan, etc.) because of proven manufacturing and quality control (and probably cost of production). They trust them to do what GST does best, built boards. Omatic doesn't go to GST and tell them how to lay up a board (neither does Burton for that matter). 

These factories are fairly small in square footage, they don't have the room to have a pile of Burton's materials, a pile of Flow's material, and so on. Raw material (which have very little variance) come in the door and snowboards go out the door. It is the brands technology (carbon I beam, dual zone EGD, Harshmellow, Pop Rods, Wiggle Stick, Flying V Rocker, etc.) that make the board specific to each brand. I guarantee that GST is better than most brands at finding the best wood on the planet and finding it (since they are buying more of it) at a better price.

Just a disclaimer, when I say that there is a level playing field in the materials, I am mainly speaking of legitimate/quality brands and not 3rd tier brands (i.e. Morrow, Lamar, etc.).


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## hpin (Feb 11, 2010)

jgsqueak said:


> When was the last time you visited GST in Austria? What goes into a board? *Wood Core* - Most of the "quality wood" out there comes from the same tree from the same part of the globe. *Fiberglass* - no company has a top secret glass formula...sure some integrate other materials (carbon, etc.) but that is no secret either. Edges - Brass, Stainless, or just plain steel edges are the only variation here. Does Rome have secret steel compound that no one knows about? *Base* - Extruded or Sintered...there is a base compound that everyone works with, companies only add to it to get that Teflon Wax-Impregnated Fusion Sintered base (which doesn't make you go any faster than a freshly tuned sintered base).
> 
> Basically there is a level playing field with the materials that go into a board (sure there is some variance to the manner in which they are put together, i.e. technology), for the most part, wood is wood, edges are edges, and base is base. Companies bring production to GST (or Elan, etc.) because of proven manufacturing and quality control (and probably cost of production). They trust them to do what GST does best, built boards. Omatic doesn't go to GST and tell them how to lay up a board (neither does Burton for that matter).
> 
> ...


You sir, have no clue about manufacturing then. Even wood from the same supplier will have variances. Geeez... maybe start with this...

broblog » Everything you ever wanted to know about snowboard manufacturing!

"What are your working methods and processes to guarantee that each brand is treated separately?
There might be a common believe that boards produced in the same factory are the same with different graphics…Tell us how you handle specificities/innovations for every brands.

Antoine and Mario, our Technical Product Managers communicate all tech details with our partners. Everything is defined based on the customers’ wishes in most cases. The Product Managers monitor these details closely to ensure that 2 brands are not un-intentionally biting each other. From time to time it will happen that 2 brands will approach us in the same development cycle with the same concept / idea. Generally…whoever has approached first will see it through. We will inform the other that this is something that is already being developed for another partner and we are not willing to co-develop it for them.
To say that one board from our factory is the same as the next with only a graphic change is totally ignorant. Shapes are brand specific, wood cores (both species and design) are brand specific, laminate materials and configurations are brand specific. We have a flexible and diverse enough factory that we can achieve this differentiation. Clearly we have in-house moulds that are accessed by many of our smaller partners and these can share similar construction methods and materials from time to time. When speaking of the “core industry” brands we are partnered with this is not the case. Each brand has there own pre-defined construction ideas regarding materials, techniques, etc. Clearly there are only so many base materials available to the snowboard world… so these are necessarily shared. Sidewall materials also. What is naturally different is the designs…being a split sidewall or a diecut swap base. These are the visual things that separate the brands in the areas we have only so many options for material choices."


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## burritosandsnow (Nov 22, 2008)

hpin said:


> You sir, have no clue about manufacturing then. Even wood from the same supplier will have variances. Geeez... maybe start with this...
> 
> broblog » Everything you ever wanted to know about snowboard manufacturing!
> 
> ...


omg is winz at teh internetz?!?! good link thanks for that direct and more reliable info than just my common sense


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## bakesale (Nov 28, 2008)

The (arguably)best snowboards on the market are made in Austria. Bigger factories and it's easier to control quality and cost in Austrian factories. Americans produce shoddy work at a bad price.

This is the Rossi Factory and HQ








Look at that shit, wouldn't you want your board made here? Wouldn't you want to make boards here?


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## Zee (Feb 21, 2008)

The fit/finish of my Rome board is pretty top notch, it's made in Austria. Durability has yet to be tested.

Not all Americans are that bad at making stuff, My Never Summer is awesome.. but it's not a board you'll find at 50% off either


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## burritosandsnow (Nov 22, 2008)

bakesale said:


> The (arguably)best snowboards on the market are made in Austria. Bigger factories and it's easier to control quality and cost in Austrian factories. Americans produce shoddy work at a bad price.
> 
> This is the Rossi Factory and HQ
> 
> ...


I think you can buy that building right now for 500 pesos ...


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## NYSnow (Nov 28, 2009)

At least they are going to Austria and not to China and quality will be as good or better than it is now. I am going to Austria next year for a snowboard trip. Maybe I will try to get a factory tour... People who work in the factory are lucky - it looks like it is only 30 km from Kitzbuhel.


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## bryantp (Dec 1, 2008)

*Boycott Burton*

The decision to ship manufacturing overseas is, to me, intolerable. Naturally, if you live outside the U.S., you may feel differently.

Here's a link to quite a long list of reasons why. 

For those not wanting to click through, here's a short list:

1) Jobs go overseas, your taxes go up. If Jake doesn't pay his share, you will.

2) Jobs go overseas, your pay goes down.

3) Jobs go overseas, pollution increases and snow decreases.

4) Jobs go to China, their military get stronger. Think about that the next time you shop.

5) If you're an American, you do owe something to your nation. It didn't get this way by accident - both the good and the bad to that. I don't buy everything just because it's made in the U.S, but if I can buy the right stuff made in the U.S., I do.

6) Jobs go overseas, the next time you're looking for a job, better look in China.


Don't care about these things? Good luck.


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## rader023 (Feb 2, 2010)

My Atomic Alibi from 06 is still going strong. Made in Austria and I can't break it. Some really nice craftsmanship.


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## ScBlack (Dec 9, 2008)

Gotta love my Austrian made Bataleon...the top sheet on that bad boy is definitely more durable than some of the American made snowboard I have seen.


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## ComeBack_Kid (May 27, 2009)

Flick Montana said:


> What's the big deal? Nothing is made in America anymore except for those little stickers that say, "Made in America".
> 
> We're a nation of consumers, not producers.


Actually the stickers are made in China now too :laugh:


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## jgsqueak (Mar 9, 2010)

hpin, thanks for that link. There is plenty in there that talk about the tech for each company (which I have said is different) and how that is managed and controlled. It also mentions that different companies use different species of wood, however they are manufacturing boards for 24 brands and I doubt they are using 24 species of wood. They are using at most 7 different blends/species of wood...and yes you are correct when you say that wood from the same supplier would have variances, however it would be the OEM that would spot the bad core(s) (variance in the wood) and use another one (from the same type of wood). The OEM is the first and last line of quality control. Brands rely and trust the OEM to produce a quality product (better than they could do themselves for the price). See this quote from the same interview:

*Do you believe brands with in-house production capacities have an edge on brands relying on a supplier for production?*

_I think that if you are having your boards built at a factory that is run by a team with a strong passion and knowledge of the sport then it doesn’t really matter. Our goal is that our partners are represented by each of us within our facility. What this means is that we, being the staff here are the eyes for our partners within our factory. We see an issue we address it… there is no turning a blind eye and pretending not to see it. Sometimes this causes the odd stress between different team members here but in the end everyone always realizes that the request to fix/change/modify something so the product is better is the correct decision. I get lots of feedback from our partners that that isn’t always their experience in other OEM factories. Certainly K2 / Ride have riders within their staffing and all of their development stuff still takes place in the USA. Protos are built, tested, approved and then shipped to the factory in China. That is a solid model to maintain good quality and tech development and still be able to build in China using low labor costs._

Sure each brand puts in all of their specs and requests for the manufacturing of their boards, but the OEM manages and directs their requests based on prove techniques/materials. If Flow can in a said, "we want our core to made out of paper." would the do it?? Of course not. No one is reinventing the wheel here, everyone knows what materials work and what doesn't work when building a snowboard. 99% of the differences in brands will be in Technology, not material.


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## bryantp (Dec 1, 2008)

*Boycott Burton*

There's 2 of these in the forums.

Here's a link to what I posted in the other one. Don't want to repost the exact same thing.

You do have lots of choices in U.S.-made boards.

There are lots of reasons to not buy boards made overseas.

U.S. car manufacturers (management) abandoned quality and gave us very little choice. It's not the same with snowboards.

The cost of manufacturing in Vermont isn't a lot higher. Manufacturers make choices based upon fractions of a dollar, thinking we won't care.

I care.

My friends need their jobs. In boom times, a few jobs moving overseas doesn't matter. Now, it all matters.


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## rjattack19 (Nov 7, 2008)

i ride a gnu board and the fact that its made in the usa was believe it or not what made me settle on it vs the board i was comparing it to. i like to buy products made in the USA whenever i can, i dont mind buying products made in canada either.


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## killclimbz (Aug 10, 2007)

Both these threads seem to be going strong so I have now merged them. 

I really don't think it's the cost of manufacturing that got Burton to make this choice. It's the cost of getting the product to market. Europe is still a huge market and by moving production within the EU they get rid of some very expensive import taxes. Those same taxes are not in play when you ship back to the US. Going that direction keeps the cost relatively the same as making it in the states. It doesn't do that if you go the other way around. 

Another thing is that US suppliers and such are a real pain in the ass to work with. That is a big reason why a lot of companies go overseas for productions. You ask a supplier in China if they can do something unusual and the answer is almost always yes. You do that to a US supplier and they'll give you ten reasons why it won't work. I know several climbing companies that have had to go overseas to get their product made because of this. Americans may have a "can do" attitude, but it doesn't permeate the entire supply line unfortunately. We are our own worst enemy.


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## Leo (Nov 24, 2009)

bryantp said:


> The decision to ship manufacturing overseas is, to me, intolerable. Naturally, if you live outside the U.S., you may feel differently.
> 
> Here's a link to quite a long list of reasons why.
> 
> ...


Can't agree with you more. What pisses me off the most is that everyone here in Detroit knocks people for driving import vehicles. Importing actually helps the economy. The Big 3 went bankrupt for the thousands of mistakes they made. The hybrid debacle being the most blindingly obvious one.

The real enemy is, and always has been, off-shoring. You want to make bumper stickers? Make one about that shit. Japanese car makers opened major plants here in America creating jobs. Meanwhile, American companies continue to off-shore.

So in reality, my Mitsubishi was made by an American worker. Spank you very much.


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## Zee (Feb 21, 2008)

very good points... if I were to open up a ski/snowboard factory, I'd open it in the BC interior. Depressed economy with guys looking for work, and everyone skis or snowboards so you can find people that will build stuff with a passion. Great test ground for new ideas as well. You don't need to set up shop in the big cities.


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## david_z (Dec 14, 2009)

Zee said:


> very good points... if I were to open up a ski/snowboard factory, I'd open it in the BC interior. Depressed economy with guys looking for work, and everyone skis or snowboards so you can find people that will build stuff with a passion. Great test ground for new ideas as well. You don't need to set up shop in the big cities.


Seems like a no-brainer, for a country like Canada which has some awesome resorts, but there's probably a reason why manufacturers aren't clamoring to open up shop up there. I suspect that it's taxes and the regulatory environment, but Canada's legal/economic environment is certainly not my forte.


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## bryantp (Dec 1, 2008)

*Boycott Burton*

To open and operate in the U.S. (or Canada) requires more effort. But, I really wish you could see what NS did in Denver. What I wrote on my blog just doesn't do them justice - they rock. I've got a good job but would happily trade it for a job on their assembly line - just to be a part of that. 

I suspect others do that also. I know they could.

Burton took the easy way. 

BTW - Prior makes some nice boards (I hear - haven't ridden one) in BC. It can be done up there too.

But we are participants in an industry that exists at our leisure...or lack therein. While we might go crazy, we don't have to ride to survive...okay, yes I do...but not really.

So, we can choose who we buy from and when we buy from them.

Boycott the bastards and spread it around.

If we do it, in 6 months those jobs come home.


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## Bones (Feb 24, 2008)

1) Jobs go overseas, your taxes go up. If Jake doesn't pay his share, you will.

Unless, of course, you live over seas.

2) Jobs go overseas, your pay goes down.

Ditto

3) Jobs go overseas, pollution increases and snow decreases.

Surely, you're not saying that the US is some bastion of environmental virtue? Most countries wanted stiffer rules at the recent Copenhagen conference on climate change, the US (and to my personal shame...Canada) did not. 

4) Jobs go to China, their military get stronger. Think about that the next time you shop.

And one of the world's largest spenders on the military is ?

5) If you're an American, you do owe something to your nation. It didn't get this way by accident - both the good and the bad to that. I don't buy everything just because it's made in the U.S, but if I can buy the right stuff made in the U.S., I do.

Do you really want to revert to economic protectionism when you're a net importer of raw materials, energy and water?


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## bryantp (Dec 1, 2008)

*Boycott Burton*

1) Living overseas doesn't exempt me from taxes...especially since I work for the U.S. and am returning.

2)Ditto?

3) I've never implied or said that the U.S. is a bastion of environmentalism. Quite the opposite. However, compared to China, we are well ahead. The U.S. should sign the agreement and should have signed Kyoto. However, even in the land of Kyoto, I would make some serious improvements.

4) My problem with the strength of the Chinese military is pretty multi-layered and may go beyond the scope of this conversation. But, in a nutshell, when their military grows, ours will grow. Instead of the aforementioned tax dollars going to schools, medical care, etc, they go to weapons. So, when we buy from them, we tax ourselves by borrowing from them to pay for the purchase then borrowing from our kids' future to grow our military. And yes, our military needs improvement but I'm still proud (most of the time ) to work for them.

5) By buying American when there's a logical way to do so, I'm hardly reverting to economic protectionism. That's like saying you're a marathoner when you ran to catch the bus. Protectionism is a government policy. I'm suggesting buying as an informed consumer.

Read the link - I flesh out my overly long arguments even more. I'm not anti-Chinese or anti-Austrian but I am pro-American. But, as I said in the link, that doesn't mean a free pass. It doesn't mean I'll buy a slightly used Chevy Citation either.


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## Guest (Mar 23, 2010)

burritosandsnow said:


> I want one made on the moon so itll be super light!!





burritosandsnow said:


> yes for sure I do understand its all relative but my point was even if standard means living in a home with shit on the floor at least if you make more than standard you got a really nice hardwood floor covered in shit





burritosandsnow said:


> I think you can buy that building right now for 500 pesos ...


:laugh::laugh::laugh:


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## bryantp (Dec 1, 2008)

*Boycott Burton*

I understand manufacturing realities. I deal with them daily.

I also understand other, overriding realities. One of them is balance of trade and our enormous trade deficit. 

Look - I'm old and I've made my money. It's really about my kids' future. 

Businesspeople such as myself need to do things with more vision. Consumers need to buy things with more vision.

Saying we're not a manufacturing nation is misleading. If we were to stop manufacturing, the nation would cease to exist. We aren't exclusively a manufacturing nation. And, we're running out of money as consumers. If we don't start selling at least as much as we buy...well, you do the math.

Sooner or later, China stops loaning us money.

That's reality. By then, I'll be dust. I care because I care about those who follow me just as others cared about my generation.

Boycott Burton. And Cannondale. And others when we have choices. I still buy goods made overseas. I still believe in Darwin. I just try to buy American first.


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## tooscoops (Aug 17, 2007)

i think trying is all that can be expected of you. its the blind "buy (north)american all the time!" that is dumb. i won't boycott any brand for shipping some production overseas. especially a company that employed 70 people or whatever.

build it where it is built cheapest and best... eventually, we should get the point and some patriotic guy or gal will start a company that actually produces things better here than overseas. thats the way to move forward. competition should increase quality. if we make a better product, it will be worth that extra little bit. if our product is crappier, give me a made in china. save money AND get better stuff? i'd have to be a moron not to... moron = patriotic? i hope not.


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## bryantp (Dec 1, 2008)

*Boycott Burton*

Fortunately, with snowboards, we can buy very high quality American-made boards.

I would argue no one builds a more solid product than Never Summer. I'm buying another one in the fall.

Other really good American manufacturers include Venture and Lib Tech. There are more...I'm just running out the door to go to work.

When we have choices, we should take them. Then, Jake will bring the jobs back because it makes economic sense.


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## Michael J (Feb 21, 2010)

tooscoops said:


> i think trying is all that can be expected of you. its the blind "buy (north)american all the time!" that is dumb. i won't boycott any brand for shipping some production overseas. especially a company that employed 70 people or whatever.
> 
> build it where it is built cheapest and best... eventually, we should get the point and some patriotic guy or gal will start a company that actually produces things better here than overseas. thats the way to move forward. competition should increase quality. if we make a better product, it will be worth that extra little bit. if our product is crappier, give me a made in china. save money AND get better stuff? i'd have to be a moron not to... moron = patriotic? i hope not.


100% correct!
The more we buy over seas the stronger we make those countries!
This Really helps America. 
Most overseas products are inferior to American Made.
Here is the perfect scenario:
New Foreign built automotive starter cost $85.00
American rebuilt Starter cost $79.00
Most people buy the new -" it has to be better, it's new".
Well they just put another AMERICAN OUT OF WORK!!!
However, they will be replacing that chinese crap shortly,
because to sell it cheaper, they have to make it cheaper.
Less copper in the windings for example. Also do you 
think that a laborer who gets paid 2 bowls of rice a day 
really cares about the product?

BUY FROM AMERICAN COMPANIES...LETS KEEP THE MONEY HERE!
As it is, the enough money is just sent out of the country
by people our government and people supporting their families
in third world countries.

Some of the American built snowboard companies are:
Never Summer, Lib Tech, Bean, Glissade, Venture

I am sure there are other local companies, lets hear from them.


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## Lstarrasl (Mar 26, 2010)

you're old school if you remember Stickers that said: Boycott Burton Because you can't patent fun. Anyone anyone. I think Lib made them.


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## david_z (Dec 14, 2009)

dude I want one of those stickers. 

Will I have to sell my cartels in order to retain my OG card?


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## BurtonAvenger (Aug 14, 2007)

Anyone remember the Rome "Boycott corporate snowboarding" sticker?


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## SPAZ (May 2, 2009)

sepdxsnwbrdr said:


> Fuck Burton.
> 
> Support snowboard companies that manufacture thier boards in the USA.
> 
> I am so glad mine was hand made in Lake Tahoe, USA.


weed is the only thing that americans make better than anyone else now :laugh:
NS_F__T__W_
denver, co!


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## SPAZ (May 2, 2009)

mpdsnowman said:


> Reality is simple. The United States of America is no longer a MFG Country..Its a consumer country. We consume more than any other country for the most part, not to mention what we waste. Ultimately Burtons primary focus isnt in the MFG of a product but rather..the sale. Thats what drives everything, the sale, without it you have nothing.
> 
> That theory is 100% across the board business direction. In order to make "the sale" you need to have your costs controlled and in MFG overseas is the way to go. Keep in mind Burton isnt leaving Vermont, just its mfg.
> 
> Carrier did the same thing in Syracuse. They still have a presence here but its limited to R&D, same as GE.


GE has R&D a couple miles from me and they build wind turbines in my older sisters backyard :dunno:


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