# Lib-tech topsheet problems?



## heate (Dec 17, 2008)

I've heard nothing but good stuff about Lib-tech boards, but I've also heard that since they are hand-made, their topsheets are not reinforced and easily come apart. Is this lamenate problem for their boards still evident in their new 2009 model line-up or has it been fixed and/or reinforced?

How about more specifically in their TRS BTX and T.Rice models? 

Thanks


----------



## landonk5 (Aug 19, 2007)

most of this problem comes from their boards not being fully
wrapped with a metal edge.


----------



## legallyillegal (Oct 6, 2008)

Actually, a full metal wrap has no bearing on durability.

Non-wrap is lighter and easier to repair. That's it.


----------



## heate (Dec 17, 2008)

So how long do you think I can ride a t.rice 161.5 until the topsheet begins to come undone. I only go up maybe twice or three times a year and hardly any park at all. Mostly free-ride/pow.


----------



## Rocan (Dec 3, 2008)

heate said:


> So how long do you think I can ride a t.rice 161.5 until the topsheet begins to come undone. I only go up maybe twice or three times a year and hardly any park at all. Mostly free-ride/pow.


better off renting a board bro and not worrying about this stuff


----------



## Mervin (Dec 18, 2008)

I am looking at 6 Lib Techs sitting here in my house, all but one, a brand new 08 Jamie Lynn Phoenix have their top sheets partially separating from the board. They ride fantastic but they are not very durable.


----------



## Extremo (Nov 6, 2008)

Same thing on mervin's Roxy boards. Top sheet comes apart. I've seen the base come apart on a few Lib's too.


----------



## jmacphee9 (Nov 11, 2008)

heate said:


> So how long do you think I can ride a t.rice 161.5 until the topsheet begins to come undone. I only go up maybe twice or three times a year and hardly any park at all. Mostly free-ride/pow.


theres no timetable for it to happen, it just does...and why waste 500$ if you only go 3 times?


----------



## Guest (Dec 20, 2008)

why waist 500$ on a board that cant stay together? 

and don't say cause of magnatraction because it cant make a board that expensive.


----------



## burritosandsnow (Nov 22, 2008)

closing in on 135 days on my banana with zero problems .. no issues with my riders choice either.


----------



## heate (Dec 17, 2008)

why waste $500? Because it's a nice board that I plan on using until it breaks apart. So looks like there are a lot of problems with the topsheet. Is there any way to fix it?


----------



## arsenic0 (Nov 11, 2008)

If you are that worried about durability, why not just get a NS board like a SL-R or something?


----------



## Triple8Sol (Nov 24, 2008)

I've owned 10+ Lib/Gnu boards over the years. No serious problems at all. If you get a bad enough chip, epoxy it when you get home, before using the board again, just to be safe. Done.


----------



## heate (Dec 17, 2008)

I would get a Never Summer but I can't find any retail stores around me that sell them. I don't want to buy online because I don't like buying expensive things online. Is Never Summer's reverse camber system as good as lib-tech's banana tech?


----------



## Guest (Dec 21, 2008)

just get a bataleon my man. tbt owns btx all day everyday


----------



## Mervin (Dec 18, 2008)

Utah snow is too soft to ever hurt a board


----------



## burritosandsnow (Nov 22, 2008)

Mervin said:


> Utah snow is too soft to ever hurt a board


 if thats directed at me you are right utah snow is soft but i abuse the shit out of my board. i jib rocks trees do rock rides ride into the parking lot etc . i usually buy 3 boards every 2 years so i go about a season and a half on one. since i know they will be replaced i dont have much respect for them  the only delam ive ever had on any board was an old m3 that i got a factory replacement for.

boards have warranties. if you feel a board you bought is falling apart due to crap craftsmanship send it in.as you can see there are plenty of posts here from folks who ride mervin boards with no issues.


----------



## Mervin (Dec 18, 2008)

Don't get me wrong I love them... I do have six of them, I just don't think cap construction is as burly as the sidewall but they just ride so damn nice. My username alone should denote what a fan of their boards I am.


----------



## switchface (Nov 18, 2008)

There seems to be this general consensus that Lib's boards delam. I'm not saying this isn't true, nor am I saying it happens to all boards....but does ANYONE have any pictures of the delaming?

I finally demo'd a skate banana yesterday and loved it. I'd be interested to see photos of the delaming. Anyone??


----------



## heate (Dec 17, 2008)

I just bought my T.Rice 157 and I talked to the guy at the shop who also had the 07 t-rice model and he had no de-lam problems. He physically brought the board out from the back office and showed it to me. So it really depends on how rigourously you ride and how much you abuse your board. Thanks to this forum's members generous time and information, I now have my first lib-tech board. Thanks everyone.


----------



## switchface (Nov 18, 2008)

Not to thread jack, but heate, keep us posted on your thoughts of the board. I was/am considering that deck but a lot of people have been scaring me away from it by saying its mega stiff and only for travis or straight pow.


----------



## heate (Dec 17, 2008)

for sure switchface.. I'm not sure when I'm going up but I'll give you my opinion after my trip. I've still got to pick a set of bindings and boots..


----------



## Guest (Dec 22, 2008)

switchface said:


> There seems to be this general consensus that Lib's boards delam. I'm not saying this isn't true, nor am I saying it happens to all boards....but does ANYONE have any pictures of the delaming?
> 
> I finally demo'd a skate banana yesterday and loved it. I'd be interested to see photos of the delaming. Anyone??


I second this motion. Myself and a couple of other guys have been asking around these forums and have yet to see pics of this supposed delam problem. I'm still skeptical that people are confusing chipping with actual delamination. My Gnu seems to be chipping a little more easily then I would like but I attribute that more to sandwich construction than anything else. My capped boards never chipped.


----------



## Triple8Sol (Nov 24, 2008)

SublimE said:


> just get a bataleon my man. tbt owns btx all day everyday


I disagree. I have both and I love them both. Different tech for different uses. Each has its own benefits.



switchface said:


> There seems to be this general consensus that Lib's boards delam. I'm not saying this isn't true, nor am I saying it happens to all boards....but does ANYONE have any pictures of the delaming?


Having owned 10+ Lib/Gnu boards, I've def had some chipping here and there, but no delamming (knock on wood). This "consensus" seems to be on this forum, but not in real life with anyone I know or talk to.


----------



## Guest (Dec 24, 2008)

heate said:


> So how long do you think I can ride a t.rice 161.5 until the topsheet begins to come undone. I only go up maybe twice or three times a year and hardly any park at all. Mostly free-ride/pow.


I have a T-Rice 161.5 and it is the best board I have ever owned. The son of a bish just will not die! I have hit the bigest rocks rode the nastiest lines and slamed the toughest landings. the mother focker will just not die. I'd say 200 days on it easily. It's still to this day my go to board when i need to cut the BS. T-Rice knows how to make a board and it involves 75% balls of steel and 75% of pure bad ass. 


heate said:


> I would get a Never Summer but I can't find any retail stores around me that sell them. I don't want to buy online because I don't like buying expensive things online. Is Never Summer's reverse camber system as good as lib-tech's banana tech?


I don't thing so. Lib nailed it on the head and any other imitation isn't going to be as good. 


heate said:


> I just bought my T.Rice 157 and I talked to the guy at the shop who also had the 07 t-rice model and he had no de-lam problems. He physically brought the board out from the back office and showed it to me. So it really depends on how rigourously you ride and how much you abuse your board. Thanks to this forum's members generous time and information, I now have my first lib-tech board. Thanks everyone.


I road a banana 100 days last year. I blew out the edge at the first of the season. I said screw it and rode it like I stole it for the rest of the year. It held together through everything. And I ride HARD. Huge cliffs rock rides ect. After the 100 days and a trip to mt hood in august the board got a 3" crack in the top sheet. I sent it in for warranty (in august I might add) and what did I get but a brand new skate banana. This is a testament to how mother focking bad azz lib is.


----------



## heate (Dec 17, 2008)

Just got back from a Tahoe trip. I was able to use my lib-tech t.rice 157 for the first time and it was pretty damn fun. 

Things to mention:

Stiff board, couldn't butter very well. I freeride mainly and this board is pretty damn fast. It's good anywhere on the mountain so switchface, don't worry about the board only doing well in powder. 

My board got chipped very easily and It looked like I had some de-lamming problems. Not too sure if it specifically is de-lamming but I'll post pictures up asap to make sure. 

Magne-traction was fun since it was new to me. I was able to stand up and control my board after every near-falling incident w/o actually falling.

Overall, the board is great but if you don't like your board de-lamming and getting chipped easily, lib-tech boards will most likely piss you off but if you really don't care, this board gets a two thumbs up from me.


----------



## Mervin (Dec 18, 2008)

I hope the picture shows up.

Even though I feel I was goaded in to this here is a picture of three Libs (2 Emma P's and 1 Jamie Lynn) all three with delam. 

I hate to even do this, and I kind of wish I never said anything but I hate to have any of you think I'm just talking shit about Libs. I love their boards and will continue to buy them despite their website giving me A.D.D. and their absolute and total inability to describe their product without sounding like the host of the x games. I am simply stating that they delam FOR ME. I truly think it is a symptom of capped construction and by no means a reflection on Mervin's craftsmanship. I also have 4 old Rides (back from when they were really Ride) also all delaminated.

In conclusion, if you don't have a lot of cash and you plan on keeping a board for many years I would not recommend a Lib Tech or any other cap construction,just my opinion, I am no expert on board construction but I am also not a liar.


----------



## Guest (Dec 30, 2008)

heate said:


> Magne-traction was fun since it was new to me. I was able to stand up and control my board after every near-falling incident w/o actually falling.


I'll second this, to the point it may even be a bad thing. My demo run on a banana, I found the board so forgiving I barely had to think. I have a theory that it'll promote bad habits, because you really have to F up before the Banana will make you pay for it. Fun as hell and I plan on getting a Rider's Choice BTX eventually, I just worry whether I'll be able to ride a traditional board afterward.


----------



## switchface (Nov 18, 2008)

heate - glad you like the board. Im not much for buttering, so thats not much of a drawback for me. But would you say the board is still playfull? Is it too stiff? Can you compare it to a skate banana?

Springheel - funny you should say that it might cause bad habits by being so forgiving. My gf and I found it very forgiving as well, but it shouldnt really matter about the bad habits...just keep riding magnatraction boards!

Mervin - for the record, I'm accusing you or anyone of lying...its just many people on this forum seem complain about the de-lam but no one has ever shown any photos. If it happens, id like to know so I can make a more educated purchase. I really appreciate the photos...but I dont see anything; what should I be looking for?


----------



## Mervin (Dec 18, 2008)

The point where the topsheet has peeled away from the bottom. Notice where the line between the steel edge and the topsheet (probably the wrong term) are no longer paralell.


----------



## heate (Dec 17, 2008)

switchface, could you define "playful"? I think you gotta use the board a few times, break it in, and it'll just get better. I don't have personal experience with the skate banana but I've seen a few videos of it and I've read a few things on the net about it. What I recall is that the skate banana is a park-oriented board. Very flexible, noodle-like, and may lose control at high-speeds. The T.Rice is probably opposite where it's stiffer, and more free-ride oriented. So it all depends on personal preference and before you purchase either of these boards, ask yourself what you ride the most. Free-ride or free-style. Now I may be wrong with what I said above so anyone, please feel free to correct me.

Hope that helped a bit switchface and define "playful" so I can help you out more.


----------



## switchface (Nov 18, 2008)

Hmmm, well I think i'd normally describe my riding style as more cruising on the groomers and perhaps summoning the courage for a jump or two. I dont hit the park (but my gf does, so I might get dragged in). I think I'd normally prefer the stiffer Trice, but when I demo'd the skate banana I really enjoyed it. Playful, like it never got in the way of what I wanted to do, it simply helped without interference. Wow, thats a horrible explanation. I didnt think it was noodley, I was comfortable cruising at speed, and it never felt like it would wash out (which is counter to what most say). So I guess in liking it so much I wonder how much more I might like the Trice. 

Anyone know where I can demo a Trice?


----------



## Guest (Dec 30, 2008)

come up to stevens pass in washington and Ill let you ride mine for a bit ...and if you are a bigger all mountain rider you will be totally impressed with trice. I have the 06/07 mtx (not banana) and I friggin love the board. I am heavy though and the trice seems geared towards bigger guys. If you are a smaller fellow make sure that you get a smaller 157- board. My 160lb buddy would have a tough time using my 161.5. 

This board will probably be perfect for you as it will cater to your all mountain style while allowing you to keep you edges totally detuned (this is why I like mtx) if you were to venture into the park. If you wanna learn how to butter or are gonna start doing rails I would probably go with the banana. (not that I have ridden one but you seemed to like it)

hope that helps. 

Basically I feel the trice is a super stable high speed all mountain board that you can bring to the park and not be pissed off at it.


----------



## heate (Dec 17, 2008)

I'll have to agree with luvs. The T.rice is very stable at high speeds and its pretty hard to lose control. If you're an all mountain rider with little bits of park as well, I'd go with the T.Rice. I just feel like the skate banana is way more park-oriented and won't do as well up on the slopes as the T.Rice.


----------



## RoughedgesMR (Dec 31, 2008)

sick of reading posts and have my friends tell me the skate banana gets sketchy at speed. Maybe its the type of rider(super aggressive) i am or that i have been riding for 14 years. I have taken the sb flatbased on black diamonds and didnt have a problem. Also i am 190lbs and ride a 152.

on the quality i will problary never buy a lib board again. Dont know if it was impact but in two spots there is a inch square of top sheet peeled up. Not happy. I have had around 25 setups and i never had topsheet peel. Not even from light impact. 

sad is that this is one of the best feeling boards i have ridden. I understand what another poster said when he thought it was playfull. The tips are absolute sex. Buttery but still good pop. I will post a pic of my topsheet tommorrow.


----------



## Guest (Dec 31, 2008)

heate said:


> switchface, could you define "playful"? I think you gotta use the board a few times, break it in, and it'll just get better. I don't have personal experience with the skate banana but I've seen a few videos of it and I've read a few things on the net about it. What I recall is that the skate banana is a park-oriented board. Very flexible, noodle-like, and may lose control at high-speeds. The T.Rice is probably opposite where it's stiffer, and more free-ride oriented. So it all depends on personal preference and before you purchase either of these boards, ask yourself what you ride the most. Free-ride or free-style. Now I may be wrong with what I said above so anyone, please feel free to correct me.
> 
> Hope that helped a bit switchface and define "playful" so I can help you out more.


The edge transfer on the bannana is super quick and catch free. The rocker makes the board able to make really quick and agressive edge transfers and just makes riding the board feel easy. It also gives the board an easier float over pow in switch. They are really fun, you should try one it. 

They are actually really stable at high speeds. The MTX gives you really great edge hold and confidence at higher speed turns. Lib boards are also a little stiffer so they don't get too chattery.


----------



## Guest (Dec 31, 2008)

I haven't personally had or witnessed any of the top sheet issues some people are describing on any Lib or GNU boards.


----------



## RoughedgesMR (Dec 31, 2008)

maybe impact damage maybe not. Still this is not acceptable. No board i have ever had(over 25) had done this after two days out.


----------



## Guest (Dec 31, 2008)

FYI. For people looking at lib boards. They are great with warrenty work. If you delame they will send you a new board. It's that simple. Lib is great.


----------



## switchface (Nov 18, 2008)

luvs - Im a tiny guy (5'9" 145-150lbs) so I was thinking the 153 btx Trice. I dont do rails or butters, so thats not a worry.

rough - I agree, I didn't think the sb felt sketchy at speed (maybe I 'scrub' speed rather than laying out a 'true' carve?). I generally feel a little sketchy whenever I get a ton of speed, and I think if I went sb I'd wanna bump up to the 156 instead of the 152 I demo'd. Thanks for the photos! Did you it something to cause that? Is that just cosmetic or are there structural damages as well?

heate - I was replying to your private message, when I saw Papawood's response. He put it very well in what I was thinking about the board being playful.


----------



## Guest (Dec 31, 2008)

Thats not the top sheet "delaminating" that is very bad impact damage (from hitting a rock or a piece of tree or something sticking out. I wouldn't really consider it a manufacturing defect. If you want to protect from that sort of thing in the future, you can purchase nose "bumper" protectors that cover the tips of your board. These are prety commonly used early in the season when it is rocky out and will save you board damage. Unfortunately by design that part of the board is basically unprotected on any snowboard.

However, If you contact lib I am more than certain they will help you out. They have really great customer service and stand by there work.


----------



## RoughedgesMR (Dec 31, 2008)

PapaWood said:


> Thats not the top sheet "delaminating" that is very bad impact damage (from hitting a rock or a piece of tree or something sticking out. I wouldn't really consider it a manufacturing defect. If you want to protect from that sort of thing in the future, you can purchase nose "bumper" protectors that cover the tips of your board. These are prety commonly used early in the season when it is rocky out and will save you board damage. Unfortunately by design that part of the board is basically unprotected on any snowboard.
> 
> However, If you contact lib I am more than certain they will help you out. They have really great customer service and stand by there work.


the thing is it doesnt have a mark from where it came into contact with something. I just liked it came up. I dont know because of all the decks i have had nothing ever did this.


----------



## burritosandsnow (Nov 22, 2008)

RoughedgesMR said:


> the thing is it doesnt have a mark from where it came into contact with something. I just liked it came up. I dont know because of all the decks i have had nothing ever did this.


uhh " the mark " is the chip lol. ive got various little dings from rocks trees and lift lines all over the nose and tail of my banana but nothing that large. its a result of sandwich construction coupled with no endcap metal edging on mervin boards. for bigger ones like yours just buy some epoxy and glue it back down.


----------

