# What is carving?



## Grizz (Nov 10, 2008)

Carve.

It seems like the term means different things to different people.

I use it when talking about a turn where the tail follows the same path as the nose of the board living a thin track in the snow. If it doesn't I call it a skarve or a skid.

What is "Carving" for you?


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## max_tm (Dec 7, 2008)

Personally, I would agree, adding that it's the sidecut of your board doing the work as opposed to what I'd call a "sliding" turn which essentially has you using the center of your board as a pivot to do the turning. I'd put skarve somewhere in between these two extremes.


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## Guest (Dec 9, 2008)

Grizz said:


> a turn where the tail follows the same path as the nose of the board


this is the correct (i.e. aasi) definition of the term.

some people use the term 'carving' as a synonym for simply 'turning' which obviously leads to confusion.

a turn where the nose and tail follow a different path is "skidded".

alasdair


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## Grizz (Nov 10, 2008)

alasdairm said:


> some people use the term 'carving' as a synonym for simply 'turning' which obviously leads to confusion.


This is what I'm looking for. The term "carving" has a broader connotation to the public than what it means to aasi. I'm curious to see how many different definitions of carving people have.

Although the aasi definition is here, I hope it doesn't keep people from adding their own thoughts on what "carving" is.


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## Guest (Dec 9, 2008)

sure. i can start referring to a knife as a fork but, in a restaurant, when i ask for a fork, i shouldn't be surprised when i don't get what i want...



alasdair


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## Grizz (Nov 10, 2008)

alasdairm said:


> sure. i can start referring to a knife as a fork but, in a restaurant, when i ask for a fork, i shouldn't be surprised when i don't get what i want...


That's why I wrote the op. If a student asks me for a fork, even though what they want is a knife, I want to make sure I deliver a knife. It's better guest service. During the lesson I might work in what the differences between a knife and fork are.

If I can generate an idea of what people broadly consider "carving" it would help me narrow down what they really want.

In my experience most of the public feels that Carving=solid linked turns.


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## Guest (Dec 9, 2008)

Grizz said:


> That's why I wrote the op. If a student asks me for a fork, even though what they want is a knife, I want to make sure I deliver a knife. It's better guest service. During the lesson I might work in what the differences between a knife and fork are.
> 
> If I can generate an idea of what people broadly consider "carving" it would help me narrow down what they really want.
> 
> In my experience most of the public feels that Carving=solid linked turns.


you carve stuff with knives not forks.

has anyone ever thought of a theory that the color you see as blue, is actually seen by someone else as green, but because you both were taught that it's the same color it registers as blue? what if my pink is your orange? but we both call them orange because that's the universal name for the color you see. word


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## Guest (Dec 9, 2008)

^ step away from the bong 

grizz, this is an interesting idea but i'm not sure, in practice, how much it will help you on an individual basis. that said, i'm keen to understand. a thread like this will help you understand very generally speaking what most of the public want but surely it's better to just understand what your specific student who says "_i want a fork_" wants and you can find that out in 10 seconds when you ask him or her and s/he replies "_to cut my food with_"?

alasdair


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## Guest (Dec 9, 2008)

alasdairm said:


> ^ step away from the bong


after you


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## Rocan (Dec 3, 2008)

thenightmare said:


> you carve stuff with knives not forks.
> 
> has anyone ever thought of a theory that the color you see as blue, is actually seen by someone else as green, but because you both were taught that it's the same color it registers as blue? what if my pink is your orange? but we both call them orange because that's the universal name for the color you see. word


worddddddddddd

and im sober right now... damn suspension


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## AAA (Feb 2, 2008)

Carving is when you pressure the board to decamber it, and the board follows the curvature of the decambered edge in the snow. Any other turn is a skidded turn. 

Found this clip on YouTube of a couple of everyday carvers having fun. A little grainy, but gives you the idea. 

YouTube - Ripping on a day off in Vail


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## Grizz (Nov 10, 2008)

What if it's a BTX board? Can you carve something that doesn't have camber? Are all BTX riders only skidding?


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## Guest (Dec 11, 2008)

Grizz said:


> In my experience most of the public feels that Carving=solid linked turns.


hey grizz - i did a brief, unscientific search on youtube and google video for "snowboard carving" and, while many clips are of 'real' carving (especially with hardboot setup on a race board), it's clear that your statement above is pretty close to the mark.

alasdair


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## AAA (Feb 2, 2008)

Grizz, You mean the board with reverse camber? They still have a sidecut that requires further decambering for the edge to continuously contact the snow don't they? They're not geared for freecarving IMO (ie; park board), but certainly capable of it. 

The misuse of the word, "carving", to represent skidded turns in freeriding is just that...a misuse of the word. Much like jumping into a pool and calling it, "diving".


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## Grizz (Nov 10, 2008)

AAA said:


> Grizz, You mean the board with reverse camber? They still have a sidecut that requires further decambering for the edge to continuously contact the snow don't they? They're not geared for freecarving IMO (ie; park board), but certainly capable of it.


Back from the dead for 2009.

Not sure about the "freecarving" term, but it looks like reverse camber type boards are everywhere in the "freeride" category, and not just for "park" boards anymore.


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## Suburban Blend (Feb 23, 2008)

you can carve on a reverse camber board even easier as you don't have to "de-camber" the board to get the side-cut to do the work.

I'm more into carving than anything else. Power on edge... The power of balancing the Yin and Yang, duality of forces. (centripetal vs. centrifugal) Soft boots and a centered 30 +15 stance on a freestyle board.


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## Suburban Blend (Feb 23, 2008)

so there are degrees of carving:
pencil lines
magic markers
and hand dragging for extra points


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## Suburban Blend (Feb 23, 2008)

I call this one "Patting the dog" as I try to mess with people on the lift who look at the track and say, "WTF?"


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## slanteye (Dec 26, 2008)

thenightmare said:


> you carve stuff with knives not forks.
> 
> has anyone ever thought of a theory that the color you see as blue, is actually seen by someone else as green, but because you both were taught that it's the same color it registers as blue? what if my pink is your orange? but we both call them orange because that's the universal name for the color you see. word


omg thats so deep man, my mind is totally blown.
haha currently finishing up this bowl.......


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## Grizz (Nov 10, 2008)

Suburban Blend said:


> so there are degrees of carving...magic markers


One of my reasons for starting the thread. Carving to me is black and white, no degrees, no magic markers. The tail edge follows the same track as the nose, or it doesn't. I would give latitude for the snow conditions.

Some would subtract points for petting the puppy. 

Nice turns BTW.


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## Guest (Nov 30, 2009)

^ i tend to agree. you're either carving or you are not. at our resort, if you are almost there but you are still skidding a little, we call it 'scarving'.

your ear knows better than your eyes when you are carving 

alasdair


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## Halborr (Oct 5, 2009)

Snowolf said:


> centrifugal forces



Heehee... Sorry, but this is the physics nazi in me coming out... A centrifuge produces centripetal (sp?) force. No such thing as centrifugal force. <grin> Just to make you sound smarter next time.

/hijack

A carve is when your soul comes out through the board. No joke. Also, it's a whole lot of fun <grin>.


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## Halborr (Oct 5, 2009)

Snowolf said:


> I guess "technically" that is true, but it is a real term to describe a real "cause and effect"


Oh no! He has... sources... *stagger* *stagger* *die*.

It does seem though that where the "centrifugal force" is greatest is actually the g-forces that you are feeling. Your body wants to go straight (Newton's first law, I believe?), but the snowboard is providing a force to keep you in the curve. So, both sides are correct, eh?


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## AdamBQ (Sep 15, 2009)

I'm confused. . .
All I know is that when I do a good solid carve, and I do mean carve, I love that feeling as some kind of "force" kicks me out of that turn with some awesome power before I go into my other edge.


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## Leo (Nov 24, 2009)

Carving is turning for me... that's because I rarely skid my turns 

Yea, general public hears the word "carve" and think it means turning. Technically, it is correct. You're still turning whether or not you are purely on your edges.


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## MunkySpunk (Jan 7, 2009)

AdamBQ said:


> I'm confused. . .
> All I know is that when I do a good solid carve, and I do mean carve, I love that feeling as some kind of "force" kicks me out of that turn with some awesome power before I go into my other edge.


Yeah, I equate it to kicking on the afterburners. Nothing like a sweet perfect carve to give you a boot in the ass speed-wise.


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## Sam I Am (Sep 9, 2009)

Thanks for getting technical people. Now what I thought I knew is mixed up with what I've read. Post/draw pics that *clearly* represent your description of the different kinds of carving, to clearify all the confusion you've all stirred up in my brain.


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## Guest (Dec 2, 2009)

Leo said:


> Yea, general public hears the word "carve" and think it means turning. Technically, it is correct. You're still turning whether or not you are purely on your edges.


technically, that is *quite incorrect*. a carve is specifically a turn where the nose and tail of the board follow the same path.

if you are skidding, the tail of your board is following a different path to the nose and *you are not carving*.



Sam I Am said:


> Thanks for getting technical people. Now what I thought I knew is mixed up with what I've read. Post/draw pics that *clearly* represent your description of the different kinds of carving, to clearify all the confusion you've all stirred up in my brain.


if you make a couple of turns and look back at the shape of your turn in the snow, see attached crude sketch for analysis 

alasdair


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## AAA (Feb 2, 2008)

That's a good image, as are those of the carving lines in the snow. Since the board decambers and follows the radius of the turn in a carve, the trail left is just a thin line. If you see a washed out swath in the snow, that was a skid. The centrifugal force (G-force) felt and the quick directional changes are what I love about freecarving. 

YouTube - Carveclip.wmv


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## Grizz (Nov 10, 2008)

alasdairm said:


> technically, that is *quite incorrect*. a carve is specifically a turn where the nose and tail of the board follow the same path. if you are skidding, the tail of your board is following a different path to the nose and *you are not carving*.


X2

Thanks for throwing up the sketch. Looks good.


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## Leo (Nov 24, 2009)

alasdairm said:


> technically, that is *quite incorrect*. a carve is specifically a turn where the nose and tail of the board follow the same path.
> 
> if you are skidding, the tail of your board is following a different path to the nose and *you are not carving*.


You totally misunderstood my post. I know and completely agree with you on what carving *ACTUALLY* is. I am just saying, the end result of skidding and carving is a *TURN*. This is why a lot of people use the word carving for turns.

As for the word skidding, I personally use the word Fish-Tailing.


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## Grizz (Nov 10, 2008)

Leo said:


> I am just saying, the end result of skidding and carving is a *TURN*. This is why a lot of people use the word carving for turns.


If I'm in my CIVIC (skid) but I think I'm driving a FERRARI (carve) because both are CARS (turns) it doesn't mean I'm right, just delusional or uneducated. Carve should not be the generic version of turn, like kleenex for nose wipes. It is a specific type of turn.

If you go back to the OP, you will see that's my reason for starting the whole thread. A little education on what the word means and to discourage it's misuse.

It looks like many people come here for advice on their riding. To be effective at that we need to nail down the vocabulary.


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## Leo (Nov 24, 2009)

Wow, what's with all these car metaphors to explain snowboarding lol.

And again, you also misunderstood my post. I am simply explaining why the term carving is misused. You can't expect to teach people to change bad habits if you don't first understand why they are making them.

I never use the word carve to describe skidding or turning in general. I use the word carve for turning purely on your edges. Skidding (or fish-tailing as I personally like to call it) is exactly the name-sake. You skid in the snow while you turn.

One more time, I do not advocate the usage of Carve to generalize turning. I am giving you guys an explanation of why people misuse the word Carve.


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## Guest (Dec 3, 2009)

Leo said:


> Wow, what's with all these car metaphors to explain snowboarding lol.


almost everybody drives and those who have not have almost certainly travelled in a car at some point. car metaphors are often used because they are a common point of reference.


Leo said:


> And again, you also misunderstood my post.


communication is a two way street - perhaps you're not explaining yourself very well 


Leo said:


> I use the word carve for turning purely on your edges.


to the point above, i think this comment is a good example of why there's confusion around the term. carve has a very specific definition in snowboarding but that definition is not "_turning purely on your edges_". at the risk of soundling like a broken record, it is a turn where the nose and tail of the board follow the same path. your definition is open to interpretation - you can be turning with a great deal of tilt in the board - that is a high edge angle - so you could be desribed as being "_purely on edge_", but still have some skid in your turn.

i echo snowolf - i get that you get it but... there's a specific definition of carving but you're using a different definition. to you, they may be exactly the same thing but if there's a specific definition why not just use it? using another definition just contributes to the misunderstanding of the term. i'm not deliberately labouring teh point and i'm honestly not trying to be a dick - if i put myself in the shoes of somebody who is new to the sport and i read this thread, my respionse would be "_well, these guys are saying a carve is where the nose and tail follow the same path but this other guy is saying it's where you're purely on edge. which is it?_"

alasdair


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## Leo (Nov 24, 2009)

Well, I don't instruct so I can't explain definitions of boarding down to a tee. This is the same reason why I can't take into consideration everyone's style of riding. Whatever you definition is, it is the same as mine. Why would it be open to interpretation when I openly agree with your definition? At that point, you are just talking semantics. When I carve, my tail does follow the same line as my nose on it's edges. Skidding is skidding whether or not you're on your edges. Otherwise I would say skidding on your edges. Whatever. Sometimes when you get this deep into definitions, you cause way more confusion. I already agreed with the correct definitions. Enough said after that 

My only goal was to try to tell you why people often misuse the term carve.


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## Grizz (Nov 10, 2008)

Leo said:


> One more time, I do not advocate the usage of Carve to generalize turning. I am giving you guys an explanation of why people misuse the word Carve.


I understood from your first post that you know the difference and why you think people misuse the word. My post were to illustrate why it's important for people to agree on a definition when asking/giving advice.


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## Leo (Nov 24, 2009)

I'm going to call it slicing just to spite everyone here muhwahhaha :cheeky4:


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## Grizz (Nov 10, 2008)

Looks like this could use a bump.


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