# Top of foot pain



## I need a name

Bought some new boots this year. Vans infuse. Fitment was great, have always had outrageous metatarsal pain in 8 different boots until now. Boots were snug until heat molding, now they packed out a bit after a few weeks. Probably a bit too much room, but I'm able to hold my foot in place just fine by using j bars and running a thin sock+regular wool ski sock. 

Any time I apply lean forward, the boot now creates a pressure point on the top of my foot in front of my ankle. Any idea as to how I can resolve this? It's not immediate, but by lunch time it causes some pretty sharp pain after the repeated pressure being applied with each turn.


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## Donutz

Is it even on both feet? Is this the same pain you've had with other boots or is it unique to this boot? Try to identify if it's the shape of the boot or the shape of your foot.


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## I need a name

Unique to this boot. I get metatarsal pain normally that forces me to stop once or twice a run. Not an issue with these boots, just a pressure point on the top of my foot in front of my ankles on the inner portion. Even with both feet.


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## I need a name

Anyone? I forgot to mention I'm also using a set of custom orthotics.


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## Eat Sleep Shred

My best guess regarding your boots is that they are too small. If they have wiggle room in the instep you're not going to get proper support from the inner laces. It'll create a pressure point because the inner laces will be tighter than the rest of the liner. Try loosening them a bit or don't even tighten them at all for a few runs. You will take a hit in response, but if the sore sport goes away, you'll know that's the source of the problem.

The other guess is you may have a technique issue. You may simply be fighting the boot. If you're pushing down into the boot with your toes on either edge, it'll push your instep into the tongue of the boot, which will cause you a lot of pain very quickly. This can be hard to spot without coaching because you can do it passively and it wont interfere with your riding, but it will cause a sore spot on the front ankle and instep. A quick lesson with a half decent instructor and they will be able to point it out in your first few turns.

Edit, what are those orthotics doing for you? Arch support? Cushioning?


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## wrathfuldeity

Perhaps add some oversized (not thickness use 1/4-1/8") foam pad to the outsider of the liner....then don't crank the boa/laces as tight...it might spread the area of pressure out. Or if the above fails...take away...shave abit from the area on the liner where the hot spot is.....(see above boot faq sticky)


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## I need a name

Eat Sleep Shred said:


> My best guess regarding your boots is that they are too small. If they have wiggle room in the instep you're not going to get proper support from the inner laces. It'll create a pressure point because the inner laces will be tighter than the rest of the liner. Try loosening them a bit or don't even tighten them at all for a few runs. You will take a hit in response, but if the sore sport goes away, you'll know that's the source of the problem.
> 
> The other guess is you may have a technique issue. You may simply be fighting the boot. If you're pushing down into the boot with your toes on either edge, it'll push your instep into the tongue of the boot, which will cause you a lot of pain very quickly. This can be hard to spot without coaching because you can do it passively and it wont interfere with your riding, but it will cause a sore spot on the front ankle and instep. A quick lesson with a half decent instructor and they will be able to point it out in your first few turns.
> 
> Edit, what are those orthotics doing for you? Arch support? Cushioning?


If anything, the boots are slightly too big with my orthotics. They are quite roomy in the toe box, which is perfect. Ankle is a bit on the loose side as well, but this was snugged up with j bars. 


They provide arch support and contain a metatarsal pad. Custom, not the superfeet/out of the box ones.


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## I need a name

wrathfuldeity said:


> Perhaps add some oversized (not thickness use 1/4-1/8") foam pad to the outsider of the liner....then don't crank the boa/laces as tight...it might spread the area of pressure out. Or if the above fails...take away...shave abit from the area on the liner where the hot spot is.....(see above boot faq sticky)



Tried some foam already, but this was far too thin I think. I'll try to find some 1/8" foam.


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## I need a name

Eat Sleep Shred said:


> My best guess regarding your boots is that they are too small. If they have wiggle room in the instep you're not going to get proper support from the inner laces. It'll create a pressure point because the inner laces will be tighter than the rest of the liner. Try loosening them a bit or don't even tighten them at all for a few runs. You will take a hit in response, but if the sore sport goes away, you'll know that's the source of the problem.
> 
> The other guess is you may have a technique issue. You may simply be fighting the boot. If you're pushing down into the boot with your toes on either edge, it'll push your instep into the tongue of the boot, which will cause you a lot of pain very quickly. This can be hard to spot without coaching because you can do it passively and it wont interfere with your riding, but it will cause a sore spot on the front ankle and instep. A quick lesson with a half decent instructor and they will be able to point it out in your first few turns.
> 
> Edit, what are those orthotics doing for you? Arch support? Cushioning?


Forgot to mention. I'm a level 2 aasi. Technique is not the issue here, perhaps I let it slip a bit when riding park, but the problem persists through all types of riding.


Pinpointed this issue to the instep region. Getting a pressure point there as I frequently get cold toes due to circulation issues. Going to shim under my orthotic and throw 1/4" thick foam on top of the liner. Will be tight, but should distribute the pressure.


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## Eat Sleep Shred

I need a name said:


> Forgot to mention. I'm a level 2 aasi.
> 
> Pinpointed this issue to the instep region.


Can't argue with that.

If you're getting pressure in the instep there are a lot of things to try. In my experience putting material in the liner behind your foot to push it forward tends to be ideal as adding more material directly over the instep tends to end poorly. You have a large artery there and adding pressure directly on top of it will tend to cut it off. Pushing the entire liner forward into the tongue has worked for me in the past. Any advice you get here will be pretty shoddy compared to a professional boot fitter so if you can't get away with some shims here and there you might run your boots by a pro to see what they can do for you. Good luck.


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## I need a name

Thought I would give this thread an update. Problem isn't quite as bad, but it still persists after fitting. In reality, the boots are probably a half a size too big. However, my feet need this. I have an extremely wide toe box that needs room and a narrow ankle. I've always followed boot fitting guidelines, but still had horrid metatarsal pain in everything I've used. Decided to size up to give myself more room with these and the problem went away. Granted, this has now opened up a few other problems alongside with it. These include; Heel lift, instep/upper foot pressure point, sloppy response, excess shin room, and the overall need to make everything tight. Figured I could solve these since you can always add material, not take it away. Riding a vans infuse with the ankle boa. 


First off, I've been doing a lot of freestyle instructing/riding lately so also looking to add a bit more dampening for hard landings. 

Put in my custom orthorics. Opened up even more room, created even more heel lift. Support is a must though. While the vans had a decent footbed, it
s nowhere near my custom. Heel lift became a huge problem. Instep/top of foot pain still there, sloppy response, and shin room were still the same. 

In went the C pads/Jbars. Heel lift solved, right? No. Spent my time adjusting them, but the lower profile orthotic made this a nightmare. Added about an 1/8" orthotic foam underneath the orthotic to shim my whole foot up a bit more. WAYYYYY more dampening after I did this. Soft landings and not a whole lot of difference in response. Heel lift ~90% solved. Instep pain/top of foot pain still persists. 

Now the "custom" work began. Trimmed out some thin orthotics foam to form to the top of the liner and taped it on. Hoping to disperse the pressure point without causing bunching. Nice comfy fit with no excess movement. Shin still had a bit of play after doing this. Still have the needed toe box width without the excess up/down movement. It worked a bit for the top of foot pain/cutting off circulation, but at about 2:00 or so it came back. Noticed a bit more heel lift after lunch break too. Probably the liner re forming to the changes.

Now I'm left here. Snagged some more orthotic foam (1/8"), big eliminator tongue shims, and some 1/16" insole shims. 

Problems I'm still having:
Top of foot pain 
very minor heel lift
shin play


Once the boots dry up I plan on shimming up the heel with a piece of thin foam and tossing the tongue shims in the liners. HOPEFULLY, this will keep my foot pulled back, heels locked in, and get that pressure point off the artery. 

Any other thoughts?

























Orthotic before extra foam added underneath. Gotta love that arch support. 











Honestly, the boots feel incredible walking around and great until later in the day when the pressure point gets to me. Response is still there, but the dampening off kickers/landings is unbelievable combined with my jib pad switchbacks.


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## I need a name

Update. Shimmed up the heel just a TAD more. VERY comfortable feeling with absolutely no lift at all. Put in the tongue eliminator thing too and threw another piece of foam underneath liner lace loops (possible cause of pressure point?). Sure, I'm probably losing some response with all this extra foam, but oh well. These feel like slippers, liner is tight, shell is just tight enough to keep the liner from falling out. No more need to crank it down, the liner is FULLY supportive. We will see how this works out.

It's now tight with the liner, but still have the toe room I need.


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## wrathfuldeity

After some packing out...might try a bit of an oversized butterfly wrap to keep the ankle locked down, maybe add some tounge padding to push the heel back in to the pocket and keep your cuff snug. Anyway what I've done with my 32 focus boas to keep them feeling like slippers.


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## I need a name

wrathfuldeity said:


> After some packing out...might try a bit of an oversized butterfly wrap to keep the ankle locked down, maybe add some tounge padding to push the heel back in to the pocket and keep your cuff snug. Anyway what I've done with my 32 focus boas to keep them feeling like slippers.


Heel lift should be solved, but I'll find out today. Tongue padding has been added.

If foot pain still persists, next plan is to sand off some foam from the piece I shimmed under the orthotic from the toes all the way back to right before the heel. Then I will cut out some higher density foam to form around my whole upper foot and stick this directly to the top of the inside of the shell instead of liner.


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## I need a name

Problem solved. Rode for 5 hours with no pain. Just need to permanently affix the eliminator shims for the tongue. Any suggestions as to how I can do this? The velcro didn't work at all, they only stayed in with a pressure fit and needed adjustment every hour or so. What kind of glue should I be using?


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## wrathfuldeity

I need a name said:


> Problem solved. Rode for 5 hours with no pain. Just need to permanently affix the eliminator shims for the tongue. Any suggestions as to how I can do this? The velcro didn't work at all, they only stayed in with a pressure fit and needed adjustment every hour or so. What kind of glue should I be using?


ikd what material you are gluing but McNett freesole is bomb, flexible, sticks to all kinds of things, its the stuff I use in the boot faq sticky section above.

Freesole® Shoe Repair by Gear Aid™ – Reheel Shoes, Repair Hiking Boots, Shoe Soles - Gear Aid


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## I need a name

wrathfuldeity said:


> ikd what material you are gluing but McNett freesole is bomb, flexible, sticks to all kinds of things, its the stuff I use in the boot faq sticky section above.
> 
> Freesole® Shoe Repair by Gear Aid™ – Reheel Shoes, Repair Hiking Boots, Shoe Soles - Gear Aid


I'll give that a go. It's essentially boot foam to the liner.



Also, adding a few layers of orthotic foam underneath my insole is a perfect method of dampening. I overshot a few kickers HARD landing flat. Would have been brutal without it, but I was able to ride away with ease. Response didn't even take a hit, no difference there.


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## wrathfuldeity

Freesole is a slow viscous stuff....very thick but it slowly spreads itsself out. You won't need to clamp much if at all...but try to make the surface lie horizontally because it will run/seep abit...kind of pools. It takes at least 24 hours to cure...it should work great for (permanently) gluing things on to the liners...I'd spread it on thin to both surfaces and position it with some painter's tape and then put a small weight/sand bag...maybe 5-10# and let it sit....but stuff the inside of the liner so it keeps its shape. If you get globs...let it dry and shave off with a razor blade or grind it off with a bench grinder. Also if the place gets lots of rubbing on the liner or a place where it tends to rip when taking out the liners for drying....cover with hurricane tape...kind of a webbed nylon tape that is slick...see boot faq


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## wrathfuldeity

hey, just saw the liners pics...maybe use a bigger 2"x2-4" self adhesive Velcro instead and/or have them sewn in at a boot/shoe repair place....I was assuming they were like intitution liners


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## I need a name

wrathfuldeity said:


> hey, just saw the liners pics...maybe use a bigger 2"x2-4" self adhesive Velcro instead and/or have them sewn in at a boot/shoe repair place....I was assuming they were like intitution liners


Velcro doesn't stick at all to the tongue of my liner. 

I'll try a big piece of 3m double sided tape used for automotive. It should be able to hold it in place.


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## I need a name

3m tape worked. Problem is lessened, but still persists. 

Options here? Jut throw more foam directly over the area to disperse the pain? More foam and cut out the exact place where the problem spot is to redistribute the point to surrounding areas?

I can post a picture of my foot to pinpoint the issue, there was a red spot on it from the pressure point.


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## wrathfuldeity

maybe cut out a hole in the foam pad abit bigger than the hotspot...right where the hotspot is.


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## Bnowsoarder

I need a name said:


> If anything, the boots are slightly too big with my orthotics. They are quite roomy in the toe box, which is perfect. Ankle is a bit on the loose side as well, but this was snugged up with j bars.
> 
> 
> They provide arch support and contain a metatarsal pad. Custom, not the superfeet/out of the box ones.





Eat Sleep Shred said:


> My best guess regarding your boots is that they are too small. If they have wiggle room in the instep you're not going to get proper support from the inner laces. It'll create a pressure point because the inner laces will be tighter than the rest of the liner. Try loosening them a bit or don't even tighten them at all for a few runs. You will take a hit in response, but if the sore sport goes away, you'll know that's the source of the problem.
> 
> The other guess is you may have a technique issue. You may simply be fighting the boot. If you're pushing down into the boot with your toes on either edge, it'll push your instep into the tongue of the boot, which will cause you a lot of pain very quickly. This can be hard to spot without coaching because you can do it passively and it wont interfere with your riding, but it will cause a sore spot on the front ankle and instep. A quick lesson with a half decent instructor and they will be able to point it out in your first few turns.
> 
> Edit, what are those orthotics doing for you? Arch support? Cushioning?


I think I may be doing what you’re talking about. but I’m a pretty good boarder, I ride pretty aggressively and I can see how I’m pushing down into the boot. but the boot fits really snug it’s very tight on the instep well I struggle to get my foot into the boot. How would i go about correcting my technique issue


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## Bnowsoarder

I need a name said:


> If anything, the boots are slightly too big with my orthotics. They are quite roomy in the toe box, which is perfect. Ankle is a bit on the loose side as well, but this was snugged up with j bars.
> 
> 
> They provide arch support and contain a metatarsal pad. Custom, not the superfeet/out of the box ones.





Eat Sleep Shred said:


> My best guess regarding your boots is that they are too small. If they have wiggle room in the instep you're not going to get proper support from the inner laces. It'll create a pressure point because the inner laces will be tighter than the rest of the liner. Try loosening them a bit or don't even tighten them at all for a few runs. You will take a hit in response, but if the sore sport goes away, you'll know that's the source of the problem.
> 
> The other guess is you may have a technique issue. You may simply be fighting the boot. If you're pushing down into the boot with your toes on either edge, it'll push your instep into the tongue of the boot, which will cause you a lot of pain very quickly. This can be hard to spot without coaching because you can do it passively and it wont interfere with your riding, but it will cause a sore spot on the front ankle and instep. A quick lesson with a half decent instructor and they will be able to point it out in your first few turns.
> 
> Edit, what are those orthotics doing for you? Arch support? Cushioning?


I think I may be doing what you’re talking about. but I’m a pretty good boarder, I ride pretty aggressively and I can see how I’m pushing down into the boot. but the boot fits really snug it’s very tight on the instep well I struggle to get my foot into the boot. How would i go about correcting my technique issue


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