# Brief Review: 2012 Union Force



## mbesp

hmm that is weird that the rachets gave you so much trouble.


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## Leo

mbesp said:


> hmm that is weird that the rachets gave you so much trouble.


Not just me bro... my partner in shred too. His particular set was worse on the front foot. After cranking the toe way down, he needed help releasing it.


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## mbesp

haha man that sucks, well maybe i'll be reconsidering my plan to pick up a new set next year.


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## Meatball707

Thanks for the review! I've been riding some older Union Inverters, sweet binding, made in Italy from 06/07 only thing wrong with them is the buckles, other than that they're like brand new and the it's the buckles really aren't screwed up just one of them has an issue with the spring so it flaps around a bit. I used to love Union, but noticed that they switched to China for manufacturing and kept the design process in Italy, maybe that switched years ago, but I'm not sure. To me they haven't changed much of anything on the Force, I guess the If it ain't broke don't fix it is working for them now, but from what you're saying it seems like they only made changes to the straps, and are adding more models to the line like the contact pro, and Atlas. I personally have looked into Raiden Bindings due to the lack of change from Union, I wanted to ride something different. I will say Union does have the best customer service I've ever experienced, ladders got stripped out after the first season, told em and I got a brand new set, and it was my error as a newb cranking the crap out of em.


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## Leo

Thanks!

Yea, I do highly recommend that you venture out of Union. You might be surprised. I think a lot of the hype is from people who have only tried a couple of bindings and brands. Union might seem like the best thing on Earth when you haven't tried other bindings.

I used to think Flows were the best thing ever until I demoed tons of bindings. I still really love them and I will continue to buy them, but they definitely aren't the best binding out there. Well, no binding is actually lol. Just saying that there are other binding that make me just as happy.


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## snowjab

so no new toe straps or just new and still bad. Im not a fan of the current toe straps.


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## Leo

snowjab said:


> so no new toe straps or just new and still bad. Im not a fan of the current toe straps.


Well, I can't say for 100% certain because it might fit your boots better, but it sucked for my friend and me. Worst toe strap and ratchets out of the plethora of other bindings we demoed. We shared the same thoughts about the bindings overall as well. Just many other bindings we would rather own.


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## snowjab

I like the weight and how simple of a binding it is but toe strap is something i was never a fan of. the ankle strap to me is one of the most comfy. Simple is good i guess but the looks like something that shouldve been designed in the 80's


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## Smokehaus

I haven't touched a pair of 2012 Forces but I did not find the problems you did in my 2011 pair. I must check out the new ones now to see whats up.


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## twin89

I will agree with you Leo that there is deff some better stuff out there than union, but the one thing that suprises me is that people complain about the ratchets when the ratchets on my contact SLs are the only thing that have not given me problems on my bindings haha, mine have been super smooth cranking and releasing.

Scary thing happened to me with my contacts is that the screws that hold in place the heel strap tend to come loose throughout the day (with loctite) and so i tighten them every day before riding, however this last day, they came super loose without me noticing, and the heelcup went from the "zero" position to the "three" postition after a landing a jump.

Scary stuff, don't buy into the union hype, i did, and now i regret it.


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## jliu

Leo said:


> Hey guys, so I finally got an opportunity to demo some Union bindings... The 2012 Force.
> 
> Alright, let me just start out by saying this is completely unbiased. And of course, this is all just my humble opinion.
> 
> These were by far the worst bindings I demoed the entire test fest (two days, around 16 boards). I'm sorry, I just don't get the hype. Sure, they are light, but they weren't substantially light. And the feel, just felt really cheaply constructed. Nifty colors though.
> 
> So I have heard from numerous Union lovers that the 2012 line-up has a much needed toe strap upgrade. My thoughts? Really? Are these really an upgrade? Because the bottom lip of the split toe strap didn't even touch my boot. And to be fair, this was the same case for my riding partner David Z. We both have different size boots and brands so it's not a fluke. We both had to go old school and rock the toe straps on top of the toe rather than over.
> 
> The ratchets... I can't say much other than they are horrible. I literally had to pimp slap them to release. Cranking them down also felt really sticky. It just wasn't smooth.
> 
> I demoed these on a Skate Banana and didn't like the setup one bit. The Force offers nothing in terms of dampening or comfort. Response was okay and it got me down the mountain.
> 
> I'll do a more thorough review soon, but I just felt compelled to mention this right now because of all the hype around these bindings.
> 
> If you like em, more power to you. I know I'll never purchase a pair at least until they redesign the wretched toe straps and ratchets the correct way. I can give you a long list of much better bindings in the same category.
> 
> I demoed Flux RK30's as well. You want good bindings and can't decide between those or Forces? Go with the RK30. I liked those so much that I put them on 4 of the 16 boards I demoed.
> 
> Honestly Union... Even Rossignol has a much better toe strap than you. At least their toe straps hug my boot for dear life. Same story for Salomon as well. Two really ski heavy companies design better snowboard toe straps...


Leo, just curious as to what boots you and david z were rockin? 

Also, did you get to preview any of the 2012 salomon bindings?


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## yimingration

Leo said:


> Not just me bro... my partner in shred too. His particular set was worse on the front foot. After cranking the toe way down, he needed help releasing it.


I have the same problem in my right front toe strap. Sometimes I need to sit back down, take off my gloves to release them. I wear a 32 Lashed boots


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## david_z

Leo said:


> Not just me bro... my partner in shred too. His particular set was worse on the front foot. After cranking the toe way down, he needed help releasing it.


True story.

Half the toe-strap doesn't touch my boot no matter what I do and ratchets were damn near impossible to release.


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## david_z

jliu said:


> Leo, just curious as to what boots you and david z were rockin?
> 
> Also, did you get to preview any of the 2012 salomon bindings?


Leo was on some Burton Hails (IIRC) size 10 and mine are ThirtyTwo TM-2 size 11. 

Yeah we rode two Salomon sticks (Drift Rocker, Salvatore Sanchez) both with the same Salomon bindings but I don't know what model name they were. Decent bindings I preferred to the Unions but nothing to write home about. Their toe strap is funky, it doesn't fully release the ratchet from the ladder so you have to remember that. I kept forgetting, and I trip on myself when I was unstrapping  but I think once you get used to that it wouldn't be an issue (my wife has Salomon bindings and I've never seen her trip getting unstrapped).


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## Leo

I actually had 2008 Burton TWC in 10.

Here's the deal guys. Both the Contact and Forces got me down the hill. I really do hate the toe straps and that part isn't an exaggeration. They also were honestly the worst two bindings I tested at the test fest.

Now, are they OMG PIECES OF STEAMING ELEPHANT POO? No, they aren't. I've seen worse... *cough* Lamar *cough*. 

The thing is, with as much hype as these bindings have, I expected a great deal more. Any company that specifically makes bindings should be better than a company that is very ski focused. The fact that I liked Rossignol and Salomon's bindings more than Unions says a great deal.

Were the Rossi and Salomons really good bindings? Not at all. They were just better than Unions. I won't write Union off altogether though. When they decide to get the toe strap and ratchets right, I will give them another shot. Until then, I'm avoiding them like the plague and will not recommend them.

I just have to wonder how many hardcore Union lovers actually tried a decent amount of other good bindings?


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## Smokehaus

I agree with the last part of your post. I myself love my 2011 Forces but have not tried anything else with in the past few years of tech to compare them to other bindings. 

After reading a few of your posts I am looking at trying out some RK30's and possibly some Targas this year.


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## 865'boarder

I have some white 2010-2011 forces and my ratchets aren't that hard to release or crank down. Atleast it doesn't feel that way to me. The toe strap is killing me though. The little split piece doesn't touch or barely touches my ZF1's. I have to rock them sorta on top of my toe for it to touch completely. That's really my only complaint with them though.


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## SHREDDER97

Leo can u please list other bindings you would rather ride, I few for park, i few for free ride, and some in the middle.

This would be greatly appreciated.


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## Leo

Park bindings - Doubles as my all-mountain freestyle since I only do jumps in the park... and recently wide boxes 

Flux RK30

Rome 390 Boss

Ride Delta

If you have an ICS Burton Board... Restricted Malavita or Cobrasharks. For 2012, add the Cartels to my list

Flow NXT-ATSE or M9SE

K2 Auto Uprise


Freeriding:

Rome Targas

Flow NXT-FSE

Ride SPI or Double Agent

K2 Auto Ever


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## SHREDDER97

Thanks leo


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## Flat4Wagon

I have no complaints about my 2011 forces. They feel good, I didn't have any problems with the straps or buckles after breaking them in, they look great and my feet have never been more comfortable. My toe strap used to slip out a bit until I figured out how to use it properly.

found these on easy lougin to illustrate what I mean: 



















If anyone is considering these bindings I wouldn't let this review scare you away. You can't go wrong with forces. :thumbsup:


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## Meatball707

I agree with the above post, these are really good bindings and I still recommend them to my friends. I only bought some Raiden's because I wanted to try something else, since I've only ridden Union and wanted to see what else is out there.


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## Nivek

For $200 you can find better bindings. And the toe strap is completely redesigned for next year. Think 2009 Cartels, but the gap in between the two straps is twice the size.

I didn't get to try the Unions, they were the only company that gave me gripe about not having test credentials despite the fact I was at SIA. Well done, you made changes people have been asking for, you should be getting as many people on the redesign as possible.

Better than Forces for same or less $$:
K2 Indys
Flux TT30
Forum Republic
Raiden Zero


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## Droid Axiom

i just used my 2011 forces, the toe strap blows. especially on moguls or even a black diamond, by the time i reach the lift, the strap is no longer secure and has slid to the top of my foot. the plastic piece literally is useless, its not even made with a grippy material nor is the underside of the toestrap itself. very dissatisfied with my first purchase from union. nothing to support the hype after much research. i had no issues with the rachets, they tightened very quickly. the bindings look great though


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## rgrwilco

The only union binding i will ever get again is the contact pro. I dont care for forces that much at all. However, i must say that union buckles are the smoothest i have ever used.


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## WHOisDAN

It takes time to adjust the toe straps. I find that Union toe straps fit better on bulkier boots (Thirty-Two).


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## jliu

rgrwilco said:


> The only union binding i will ever get again is the contact pro. I dont care for forces that much at all. However, i must say that union buckles are the smoothest i have ever used.


You must only be refering to the ankle rachet. They are pretty smooth and hold tight...but the toe rachet feels archaic to me


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## Leo

Flat4Wagon said:


> I have no complaints about my 2011 forces. They feel good, I didn't have any problems with the straps or buckles after breaking them in, they look great and my feet have never been more comfortable. My toe strap used to slip out a bit until I figured out how to use it properly.
> 
> found these on easy lougin to illustrate what I mean:
> 
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> 
> If anyone is considering these bindings I wouldn't let this review scare you away. You can't go wrong with forces. :thumbsup:


Excuse me sir, but how many bindings have you tried? How many 2012 Unions have you tried?

My word is not gospel by any means. I am just rather disappointed by all the hype only to have the experience I had. I'm not knocking Union as a company as they are cool as a bees ass during the winter.

I don't even hate the overall binding. Just the toe strap and ratchets. Much, much better designs out there. Plus they don't have canted footbeds which is one of the reasons why I'm considering getting rid of my Flows.

Also, I tried both positions on the redesigned toe straps and it didn't work. Maybe just my buddy's and my boot. Who knows, maybe there's even some type of adjustment we missed seeing as how they are demos.

I stand my ground when I say I much rather own other pairs of bindings. As of now, even if you gave me a free pair of Unions, I'd sell it for something else.

By the way, your post has no grounds here as you are talking about the 2011 Unions and I'm talking about the 2012 models.

Spank you very much in the flying fish turd swimming upstream into a grizzly bear's mouth. Oh wait, that's salmon.


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## david_z

i couldn't get them to look like the second picture no matter what i tried


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## Leo

david_z said:


> i couldn't get them to look like the second picture no matter what i tried


Do be fair, that pic is of the older toe strap design. That bottom lip in the picture doesn't seem as smiley face curved as the new ones.


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## B.Gilly

Yeah that pictures has been floating around for about 2 years now. Kinda mute to post it for the upcoming seasons bindings.


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## mbesp

I still think it is weird the ratchets didn't work for you guys.
I have a pair of forces and contacts. I honestly didn't really care much for the forces since they seemed to put my feet to sleep with the boots i was wearing at the time.
The contacts have been nothing but awesome for me. but the point im slowly getting to is that the ratchets on both pairs worked perfectly. Super easy to push on then one or two ratchet motions to get them tight and they pop off by hitting the little release.

Sucks hearing about you guys having so much trouble.


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## Leo

It's not all the ratchets. Just the one on the toes. I don't get why they do that. The one on the Forces did release better than the Contacts. However, it still took more elbow grease than other companies.


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## mbesp

hmm, sounds like they messed something up trying to make things better. 

Wonder if it is something they'll have worked out by official release.


Also did you get a chance to test out some canted bed bindings? If so would you mind throwing up a review of the ones you tried and what you liked and didn't like about them?


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## Flat4Wagon

Leo said:


> Excuse me sir, but how many bindings have you tried? How many 2012 Unions have you tried?
> 
> My word is not gospel by any means. I am just rather disappointed by all the hype only to have the experience I had. I'm not knocking Union as a company as they are cool as a bees ass during the winter.
> 
> I don't even hate the overall binding. Just the toe strap and ratchets. Much, much better designs out there. Plus they don't have canted footbeds which is one of the reasons why I'm considering getting rid of my Flows.
> 
> Also, I tried both positions on the redesigned toe straps and it didn't work. Maybe just my buddy's and my boot. Who knows, maybe there's even some type of adjustment we missed seeing as how they are demos.
> 
> I stand my ground when I say I much rather own other pairs of bindings. As of now, even if you gave me a free pair of Unions, I'd sell it for something else.
> 
> By the way, your post has no grounds here as you are talking about the 2011 Unions and I'm talking about the 2012 models.
> 
> Spank you very much in the flying fish turd swimming upstream into a grizzly bear's mouth. Oh wait, that's salmon.


Woah relax bud, I'm not trying to shit on your opinion or anything I'm just stating mine. 

No, I haven't tried the 2012 and no I'm not demoing dozens of bindings each year. Good thing because I'd probably be buying new gear all the time. 

When my bindings were brand new the toe buckle was pretty stiff and you had to work a little harder to get them off but they've since broken in and slide nice and smooth. Maybe it's different on the 2012? Have you tried the 2011?

I took the time to adjust the straps to my boot size when I got them and the toe strap kinda grabs on to the tip of my boot and sticks there. Maybe I'm just lucky. :dunno: But again the strap is completely different on the 2012. 

I'm sure there are tons of great bindings out there but these are working fine for me so far.


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## ScBlack

I have the 08/09 Force MC. I like the response on the bindings but the ratchets are pretty bad. It does the job of holding my boots in but during couple of cold days at Mammoth, one of the ratchet would freeze up and would not lock down to the ladder. After many mins of struggle I can get it to work but I expect such expensive bindings would have better ratchets. Not tomention the paint peel and chips like nobody's business. Although I like the looks of the 2012 Force SL, think I am gonna look eslewhere, for less money, I can probably pickup a pair of Rome Targa, Ride Double Agent or Flux. All of them have excellent ratchets from what I read on this forum. I just need some good stiff bindings since I mostly free ride and occasionally hit a jump or two.


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## Leo

Flat4Wagon said:


> Woah relax bud, I'm not trying to shit on your opinion or anything I'm just stating mine.


I am perfectly calm lol. I thought I showed my humor in my last comment.

I was genuinely asking you a question with perhaps a little splash of ridicule. I just keep seeing a lot of hardcore Union supporters that have not demoed a good amount of other current bindings.

You might love super market sushi and think it's the best thing in the world if you haven't ate a decent sushi bar. But I guarantee there is more to sushi than that super market stuff.


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## Csanto23

Thanks for the review!

Any information on when 2012 Gear will be available for purchase?


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## Leo

Csanto23 said:


> Thanks for the review!
> 
> Any information on when 2012 Gear will be available for purchase?


The release dates are different for each brand. They also differ according to region. Everything is usually out by October. Some stuff comes out late August even.


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## AngryHugo

Thanks for the review, Leo. I was considering switching to Unions next season, but now I'll definitely think twice.


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## crazyface

Is the new toe strap only on the force or did they cahnge the whole line's toe straps?


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## jliu

crazyface said:


> Is the new toe strap only on the force or did they cahnge the whole line's toe straps?


The whole line has the same toe strap design


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## crazyface

jliu said:


> The whole line has the same toe strap design


dammit. I hope this is only a 1 year thing. I really liked their older (08 or so) toe straps which were pretty much just a piece of leather. I saw some pics of these new ones and they look awful.


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## claus

Unfortunate news to hear. I thought the 2011 were a solid product :dunno:, haven't had any problems with buckles/straps so far. Thanks for the other suggestions, looks like it is time to do some more research and demoing.


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## Extremo

Too funny...I find the RK30 is garbage and love the Force. To each their own I guess.


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## Meatball707

Extremo said:


> Too funny...I find the RK30 is garbage and love the Force. To each their own I guess.


I was looking at the Flux tt30s, SF45s, and the Union Force and Force SL. I've ridden Union for years and really liked em', but mine were made in Italy, much better quality than what they're getting in china, I know flux and Union are both made in China now. Where they're made aside, the tt30s don't have any urethane or dampening other than the foot bed. I got SF45s in the end and like them a lot, took a bit to get them dialed in, but really like the toe cap and the ankle strap. They're really cush and seem to get better each day. I would say the ds45 and sf45 are closer to what the Force is


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## Leo

Extremo said:


> Too funny...I find the RK30 is garbage and love the Force. To each their own I guess.


Thing is, you are talking about different model years. Both the force and RK30 I demoed were 2012.


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## mbesp

Meatball707 said:


> I know flux and Union are both made in China now.


That is kinda weak.


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## supersox

The toe straps of my 2011 forces fit well with my burton ruler. However the toe strap ratchets could be hard to release at times and make me miss my formulas.


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## idshred

david_z said:


> True story.
> 
> Half the toe-strap doesn't touch my boot no matter what I do and ratchets were damn near impossible to release.



question out of curiousity, what adjustments did you or leo make to try to make the toe strap fit better?

edit: saw this



Leo said:


> Also, I tried both positions on the redesigned toe straps and it didn't work.


both positions meaning the 2 slots in the baseplate? So these were l/xl binders or do the m/l forces have them next year as well? I would imagine david-z was in a l/xl with a size 11.


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## SobeHall

I agree ... my 2011 force bindings are fine ... it took a while to figure out exactly how the toe strap fit properly but once I did it was great. I never had any trouble from the ratchets or anything in general. Like he said, don't let the review scare you, I know people who hate Burton Missions.


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## Leo

SobeHall said:


> I agree ... my 2011 force bindings are fine ... it took a while to figure out exactly how the toe strap fit properly but once I did it was great. I never had any trouble from the ratchets or anything in general. Like he said, don't let the review scare you, I know people who hate Burton Missions.


I don't hate Union. Hate is a strong word. I do Hate the toe straps and toe ratchets on their pre-production models. They said they tweaked them for the production models.

Honestly, there are plenty of Union supporters here who also complain about the toe straps and toe ratchets. And the 2011 model of yours is different from the 2012 that I reviewed.

Anyway, this review is not relevant anymore since they changed the production model.


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## Leo

New_World_Order said:


> U probably should learn how to set up your bindings first... Search for 2012 binding clinic by union...


This was on a demo day. They were set up by the Union reps. I'm sure there are more settings, but what we are trying to point out is that out of the dozens of bindings we demoed that day, the Unions were the only one with a toe strap problem.

A Union employee even jumped on here to say that Union tweaked the caps on the production bindings.

Let's not go into threads and make blind assumptions about the person who demoed a product.


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## CheeseForSteeze

New_World_Order said:


> U probably should learn how to set up your bindings first... Search for 2012 binding clinic by union...


The conformity of the toe strap has nothing to do with the set-up of the bindings and everything to do with the design of the toe strap itself. For some reason, they made their toe caps less conformable to different boot toe shapes than the 2011 design because they used way too much material and it's not pliable. Look at how Raiden does their windowed straps for a good example. Other alternatives are the way K2 do their toe straps on the Company and Uprise bindings or Ride's Thingrip.






Here's the clinic video. You can hear Johan release the toe buckles and they POP loudly. Again, they're supposedly set up right but they still don't operate smoothly. The smooth glides on my Burton's release and ratchet like a dream and never stick, slip or catch. And this is coming from somewhat of a Burton hater (trying to be less biased). They just work like butter. Go into any board shop and just play with the ratchets. They're noticeably stickier than other designs and when temperatures drop you're going to compound that problem.

I have no problem with Union as they have outstanding distribution model (C3 is awesome for getting spares, the only better company is Rome SDS) and outstanding use and design of materials in their baseplates and high backs. But they need to invest some serious work into their ergos, straps and ratchets because when I'm paying over $200 for a binding, I want everything perfect.

Also, their two channel discs tend to blow up when landing flat which happens a lot if you are doing lots of park riding on urban style features. The two channel design has the advantage of being 3D compatible but it's less strong than the four channel design. I've had to replace them a lot, hence the experience with the C3 support.

Sorry Leo, did not mean to hijack this thread. But this "Ur doing it wrong" attitude about Union pisses me off. They make good products but have some real problems they need to address. I love the Contact Pro baseplate/high back ... it just needs Burton's buckles and straps.


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## Leo

No problem Cheese. You have the exact argument I've been trying to make. Although I did initially show much more antagonism, but that was directed towards all the super fans.


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## civic2tegg

Ok I just told my shop to put some union forces aside for me and wait until my board come in tomorrow for me to pick them up together was this a mistake? I just found this thread today of course after I finally had my mind made up. I don't demo I don't have any past experience with bindings other than the burton freestyles I've been riding for the past 4 years (they held up nice and for an entry level binding I tear it up in them)so before I go to the shop tomorrow is their another binding I should look at for all mountain light weight and good responsiveness? Also doesnt help that the people at the shop are 100% Union all day.


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## Hodgepodge

civic2tegg said:


> Ok I just told my shop to put some union forces aside for me and wait until my board come in tomorrow for me to pick them up together was this a mistake? I just found this thread today of course after I finally had my mind made up. I don't demo I don't have any past experience with bindings other than the burton freestyles I've been riding for the past 4 years (they held up nice and for an entry level binding I tear it up in them)so before I go to the shop tomorrow is their another binding I should look at for all mountain light weight and good responsiveness? Also doesnt help that the people at the shop are 100% Union all day.


different strokes for different folks. I ride contacts on my park board and havent had any problems. I rode the forces at snowboard camp and only had issues with a sticky ratchet and that's about it. I liked the forces and like to the contacts a lot. They're super durable. I'm sure you will be fine on the forces. In the worst case if you really are skeptical you could return them if you dont ride them and try something else.


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## Nefarious

civic2tegg said:


> Ok I just told my shop to put some union forces aside for me and wait until my board come in tomorrow for me to pick them up together was this a mistake? I just found this thread today of course after I finally had my mind made up. I don't demo I don't have any past experience with bindings other than the burton freestyles I've been riding for the past 4 years (they held up nice and for an entry level binding I tear it up in them)so before I go to the shop tomorrow is their another binding I should look at for all mountain light weight and good responsiveness? Also doesnt help that the people at the shop are 100% Union all day.


Take your boots into the shop and set it all up. Don't blindly pick them up and try it at home. 

Take new Unions out of the box and set them up to your boots. See how well the toe strap works with your gear. If you don't have any noticeable issues, you're good to go. Easy solution. :thumbsup:

At worst case, sticky ratchets aren't the end of the world. If they REFUSE to open, then maybe. It's all preference at the end of the day. I loved my unions, for what its worth. Even though they were sticky, they're great bindings.


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## civic2tegg

Yeah I want to set them up in the shop I just need to make sure the straps are all good for the life of these things.


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## Nefarious

civic2tegg said:


> Yeah I want to set them up in the shop I just need to make sure the straps are all good for the life of these things.


I won't speak for Leo, he obviously has tried a lot of gear and works in a snowboarding related career. His advice is usually sound and fairly well thought out. That being said, I sit in a cubicle and get overpaid to surf this forum.

I *believe* most people's issues with the straps stem from how well it actually fits around the toe of their boot. That being said, you'll know if you have an issue. Union wouldn't be a prominent company in the snowboarding world if they didn't have something worthwhile to contribute. Don't stress too much.

Companies that produce crap are often flamed quickly. That's one of the many joys of the information era. If next years Raiden or Flow lineup was complete garbage, low quality parts, super flimsy...people would discover it within a month or two and their sales would drop off the map. Luckily that's rarely the case these days. With the amount of testing and engineering, it's usually not a problem. If it became one, you'd like see a recall or replacement before you were left in the cold. 

/end rant


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## idshred

CheeseForSteeze said:


> Here's the clinic video. You can hear Johan release the toe buckles and they POP loudly. Again, they're supposedly set up right but they still don't operate smoothly. The smooth glides on my Burton's release and ratchet like a dream and never stick, slip or catch. And this is coming from somewhat of a Burton hater (trying to be less biased). They just work like butter. Go into any board shop and just play with the ratchets. They're noticeably stickier than other designs and when temperatures drop you're going to compound that problem.
> 
> Sorry Leo, did not mean to hijack this thread. But this "Ur doing it wrong" attitude about Union pisses me off. They make good products but have some real problems they need to address. I love the Contact Pro baseplate/high back ... it just needs Burton's buckles and straps.


ok, you've owned a couple different pairs of unions, correct? Did your toe ratchets smooth out over time? I agree about the rachets not being as smooth as burton or flux right out of the box. However, i've owned three pairs of unions, and each of them got much smoother over time... my toe ratchets release as easily and as smooth as my burtons or my tt30's. 



CheeseForSteeze said:


> Also, their two channel discs tend to blow up when landing flat which happens a lot if you are doing lots of park riding on urban style features. The two channel design has the advantage of being 3D compatible but it's less strong than the four channel design. I've had to replace them a lot, hence the experience with the C3 support.


You had to replace them because you 'blew them up' or some other reason? If so, what were you doing when it happened? How many pairs are you talking about?


----------



## Leo

Look, some of you are completely missing the point. I never once said, "Union is crap. Their entire company sucks and their bindings swallow."

Before I made this thread, I was super interested in Union bindings because of how fanatic Union users here used to be (They no longer ruin threads about other bindings thankfully). Almost every single thread about Flow bindings were completely derailed by Union followers. Other binding threads were full of "Union is the best hands down" which resulted in me and others asking them what previous binding experience they have and most replied with something along the lines of "Old Burton Customs"...

Yes, I openly admitted I was antagonistic about Union at first. It really wasn't towards the company. My whole argument is, they are a binding specific company. They use the DuPont plastics which are by all means high-grade and durable. But why is it that they cannot solve the toe strap issues? Their old bindings had issues with the toe strap and ratchets, and the redesign which was supposed to address this continue to be plagued by poor fitment and sticky ratchets.

Then you have a company like Rossignol which is very Ski orientated. Even this ski orientated brand makes toe caps that fit snug and ratchets that do not get stuck.

This is just honest criticism and the opinion of a few gear testers like Dave and myself. Don't think of it as "Union fucking blows". Think of it more as, "Come on Union, we know you're capable of designing a better toe strap and ratchet." 

/endrant :laugh:


----------



## civic2tegg

Leo said:


> Look, some of you are completely missing the point. I never once said, "Union is crap. Their entire company sucks and their bindings swallow."
> 
> Before I made this thread, I was super interested in Union bindings because of how fanatic Union users here used to be (They no longer ruin threads about other bindings thankfully). Almost every single thread about Flow bindings were completely derailed by Union followers. Other binding threads were full of "Union is the best hands down" which resulted in me and others asking them what previous binding experience they have and most replied with something along the lines of "Old Burton Customs"...
> 
> Yes, I openly admitted I was antagonistic about Union at first. It really wasn't towards the company. My whole argument is, they are a binding specific company. They use the DuPont plastics which are by all means high-grade and durable. But why is it that they cannot solve the toe strap issues? Their old bindings had issues with the toe strap and ratchets, and the redesign which was supposed to address this continue to be plagued by poor fitment and sticky ratchets.
> 
> Then you have a company like Rossignol which is very Ski orientated. Even this ski orientated brand makes toe caps that fit snug and ratchets that do not get stuck.
> 
> This is just honest criticism and the opinion of a few gear testers like Dave and myself. Don't think of it as "Union fucking blows". Think of it more as, "Come on Union, we know you're capable of designing a better toe strap and ratchet."
> 
> /endrant :laugh:


I get what you're saying but your opinion means a good deal to me. You've tested more bindings it seems then I will ever own. So if you say for $200 there are better choices it's stupid for me to think otherwise. Especially since whatever I end up with I would like to hold onto for a few seasons.


----------



## Leo

Union doesn't have durability issues. That's a complaint that's rare. They do use very high quality plastics from DuPont... Zytel. This stuff is bomb-proof. The Unions should definitely last you more than a couple of seasons. They also have lifetime warranty their baseplates and heelcups. This isn't limited, they replace it for the life of your bindings. So break it over and over and they will replace it over and over.

I say try the Unions in the shop with your boot first. Make sure it fits your boot good. Otherwise, you're going to be fishing for frankenstein parts. That's another option. Get some Ride Toe straps and put it on the Unions. I've seen many Union users do this.

Another factor to consider is the lack of canting in Union bindings. I'm a huge fan of canted footbeds because I rock a wider stance and have a bad left knee.

I'm not trying to steer anyone away from Union. Just giving you points to consider. Canting isn't for everyone. People that have boots that fit the bindings well have no issues. But for the rest of us, there are better options.


----------



## civic2tegg

Leo said:


> Union doesn't have durability issues. That's a complaint that's rare. They do use very high quality plastics from DuPont... Zytel. This stuff is bomb-proof. The Unions should definitely last you more than a couple of seasons. They also have lifetime warranty their baseplates and heelcups. This isn't limited, they replace it for the life of your bindings. So break it over and over and they will replace it over and over.
> 
> I say try the Unions in the shop with your boot first. Make sure it fits your boot good. Otherwise, you're going to be fishing for frankenstein parts. That's another option. Get some Ride Toe straps and put it on the Unions. I've seen many Union users do this.
> 
> Another factor to consider is the lack of canting in Union bindings. I'm a huge fan of canted footbeds because I rock a wider stance and have a bad left knee.
> 
> I'm not trying to steer anyone away from Union. Just giving you points to consider. Canting isn't for everyone. People that have boots that fit the bindings well have no issues. But for the rest of us, there are better options.


Very cool! I'll check it out tonight when I pick up my board. Thanks.


----------



## Nefarious

This is a complete threadjack...

How did your hand/finger heal up, Leo? I remember you saying you messed it up, but I can't remember how. Without more coffee, the search feature has rendered itself overwhelming.


----------



## Leo

LoL Nef... 

Thanks for remembering and asking about that. I still have the metal implant on my 5th metacarpal (bone to pinky). I did tons of PT on it so that helped get most of my strength back. Still get arthritis pains though and I think that will never get better. Rather, worse 

But I can ride! :thumbsup:


----------



## Nefarious

Glad you're healed up. I know how arthritis pain goes. It's never fun, but it's way less annoying being unable to ride. 

Civic: Good luck with the gear hunt.


----------



## aplummer

i have not tried the 2012 forces and will not be buying any this season for my new board but i would like to defend the so called horrible ratchets and toe straps of the 2011 forces. i put over 100 days last year in france on forces and never once had the toe strap come loose or slip and the ratchets where fine, yes not the smoothest on the market but not anything to worry about. i think boot choice makes all the difference with the unions. i was wearing vans aurora and they fit tight. i got lucky and the french guy that sold me my setup knew his stuff and ran me through all the bindings that fit with the vans and which wouldn't. he laid out 6 boot binding packages that he thought had the best fit and where still the style i was looking for.

leo- what would you run on a NS heritage with vans boots. bit limited to brands at the resort i'm working but can get burton, flux, flow (been thinking either cartels or nxt) think they also have the tt30?


----------



## Leo

I'd do something mid-stiff or stiff for the Heritage. Cartels, Restricted Malavita, and Diodes are great choices. Diode being optimal if you have a great discount/proform and can afford it. I would do Restricted Cartels over the regular ones for the Asym ankle strap. You can flip the strap according to what you want. More support or more flex. The Restricted Malavitas have this same strap, but the overall binding has a bit more play to them than the Cartels. Diodes are just a light, responsive beast. Insanely light.

For Flow, definitely the NXT-FSE for most response. I owned these bindings and loved them. One of the more responsive Flow bindings out. Had good dampening and was light. Of course it comes with Flows rocker baseplate... in all honesty though, I didn't notice it. Maybe that's the magic of it? :dunno:

I've only demoed the Flux RK30's so no help there.


----------



## CheeseForSteeze

Hi idshred, I can answer those questions:



idshred said:


> ok, you've owned a couple different pairs of unions, correct? Did your toe ratchets smooth out over time? I agree about the rachets not being as smooth as burton or flux right out of the box. However, i've owned three pairs of unions, and each of them got much smoother over time... my toe ratchets release as easily and as smooth as my burtons or my tt30's.


Yep, I rode the 09/10 Forces and 10/11 Contact and Contact Pros. They smoothed up a little and the magnesium cages with aluminum wheels on the Contacts were pretty good but they still tended to stick when I cranked them down on my boots. I didn't have this problem with Flux, Burton, TechNine or Raiden which all released smoothly straight out of the box.

Bear in mind, I guess this could be considered a minor complaint since the baseplates and highbacks never once failed me and that's what's really important. But as I previously stated, it's nice to have your buckles release effortless especially when you are paying north of 200 bones.



> You had to replace them because you 'blew them up' or some other reason? If so, what were you doing when it happened? How many pairs are you talking about?


Landing on flat surfaces coming off faster rails or down bars that don't always have a transition on the bottom, I tend to stomp down my landing and I go through mounting discs. No brand can really hold up to repeated abuse like that, nor should the be expected to. However, the Union discs seemed to crack the fastest, far quicker than Raiden, Burton, Flux or TechNine.

TechNine I had some problems with the discs fitting but they held up ok. Raiden were average and Burton have been above average so far. Flux I can't comment on as I haven't ridden them with the frequency of those other bindings. The design and materials of Burton and TechNine seem much beefier than Union, though, and one would expect them to last longer.

Again, if Union are your thing, by all means have at them! I don't think they are bad, and in fact, I love the Contact Pro baseplates (awesome board feel and weight) and high backs. I just wish they'd do something about their straps, buckles and discs.

With that, if anyone has any more specific questions about what I didn't or did like about those bindings, please PM me. I'm afraid I've already eaten up enough of Leo's thread as is.


----------



## Himynameissean

Ride Toe Strap Upgrade Kit - Online Snowboard Shop

I actually just got Force's today, and was kind of like WTF at the toe straps when they wouldn't release smoothly. I actually cut my finger open. They feel great, but I'm wondering if those toe straps will fit the Force's, or if I should just return them and get something different. 

For what it's worth, I was riding my friends beat down, 4 year old burton freestyle's last year and the toe straps were smoother than the forces.


----------



## rdot84

I've used rossignol jones xp, rossignol hc2000's and burton cartels and my union forces are by far the best pair for board integration/feel and response. I will say the straps and buckles leave much to be desired but you do need to adjust them correctly and have the right size binding. They also smooth out over time.

My two cents: Pick up a pair of Union Atlas'. Asymetrical straps and high back makes leaps and bounds compared to the Force.


----------



## Leo

Himynameissean said:


> Ride Toe Strap Upgrade Kit - Online Snowboard Shop
> 
> I actually just got Force's today, and was kind of like WTF at the toe straps when they wouldn't release smoothly. I actually cut my finger open. They feel great, but I'm wondering if those toe straps will fit the Force's, or if I should just return them and get something different.
> 
> For what it's worth, I was riding my friends beat down, 4 year old burton freestyle's last year and the toe straps were smoother than the forces.


A ton of people put the Ride toe straps on their Unions. There's an entire thread full of them on EasyLoungin and they are a huge Burton/Union forum.

If you like everything else about the Unions and this is your only issue and the price of the Ride's is chump change to you... go that route.


----------



## civic2tegg

Wow first opening of the toe strap I cut my finger pulling so hard  bought them anyway though let's just see how they work.


----------



## Nefarious

New_World_Order said:


> Dont be D-bag


Is it really necessary to act like such a child? It's a debatable concept. There are certain issues with Unions that are no secret. 

The lack of problems with yours certainly don't justify infantile name calling.


----------



## Leo

New_World_Order said:


> Again Learn to adjust the straps correctly.... If the rachet sticks to much you need moreslack on the strap it self. Also the straps smooth ou the more they straighten and soften up. Has nothing to do with the ratchet itself. I have 390's , Cartels, Spi's and Forces. The Force are by far the most fluid and comfortable binding..... To me.......
> 
> Dont be D-bag


Okay Mr. New World Douche bag. I have read your other posts and you have this condescending tone throughout most of them. Keep it up, you won't last very long on these forums with that attitude. How about you stay over at EasyLoungin with that garbage attitude.

Go tell your Union reps to set people up right then. The bindings were setup by them. This is how it works on a demo day.

But at any rate, the straps were put in their back position and ladders not maxed out and toe straps centered over the toe of the boot. Just like Johan shows in his video. After all, it was his co-workers that set me and Dave up.

You're outnumbered here NWO. Consistently people are saying the same thing about the toe ratchet and most agree that the toe straps only properly fit some boots. These are the very people that support Union.

So either take the criticism if you're associated with Union in a good way or else STFU and keep your trash comments to yourself.


----------



## binarypie

The whole ratchet problem is very very common on the unions. Almost everyone I know that rides them complains about it. I've even seen a few people putting burton straps on their unions....


----------



## Leo

By the way, let's not try to use the old argument from authority fallacy. If you want to compare binding experience, I can do that. Even better, BurtonAvenger will make you look like a peon with his gear experience and most of us know what his opinion on Unions are. That is if you want to continue with your fallacy.

I'm providing constructive criticism and even providing options to fix the Union toe strap issue. You do nothing but shove two wildabeast penises in your ears and scream "LALALALALALA UNION IS PERFECT WITHOUT ANY ISSUES LALALALALALALALALA".


----------



## Himynameissean

Leo said:


> A ton of people put the Ride toe straps on their Unions. There's an entire thread full of them on EasyLoungin and they are a huge Burton/Union forum.
> 
> If you like everything else about the Unions and this is your only issue and the price of the Ride's is chump change to you... go that route.


I'm a newb, I've only rented stuff in the past. I was playing around with them last night, just opening and closing them and they seem to be sticking less. I'm still worried once they get cold and icey they'll be really sticky again. I'll report back once we get some snow I can ride.


----------



## CheeseForSteeze

New_World_Order said:


> Again Learn to adjust the straps correctly.... If the rachet sticks to much you need moreslack on the strap it self. Also the straps smooth ou the more they straighten and soften up. Has nothing to do with the ratchet itself. I have 390's , Cartels, Spi's and Forces. The Force are by far the most fluid and comfortable binding..... To me.......
> 
> Dont be D-bag


That doesn't make sense. Regardless of how you adjust the straps, you don't want any slack in them because the point of straps is to ratchet them down to keep your boots in the baseplate and highback. If you are riding with slack straps, you're doing it wrong.

If you are talking about extra ladder length, no that doesn't matter either because the interface at the ratchet and ladder teeth is what causes the stickiness. They mesh at such an angle that they catch even when releasing. The meshing of this tooth interface has nothing to do with and cannot be affected by the strap set-up.

Again, go watch the video of Johan running the clinic with the straps set up that you recommended. If you actually watch it carefully, you can hear the buckles popping loudly as he tries to release them.

As even more evidence, watch the 2011 clinic @ 2:04 you can clearly see him wrestling with the toe buckle to release on this correctly set-up Asadachi:






You being wrong about this in no way indicates other people are being D-bags.


----------



## Beschatten

Why is everyone bitching about the straps... The biggest issue with these bindings is the baseplate. There like an inch thick, creating the ultimate dead-zone and they weigh a ton. They're sandbags on your ankles.

Response is good.
Shock absorption is good.
Ratchets freeze up sometimes.

BUT MY GOD THESE THINGS ARE HEAVY.


----------



## Leo

Beschatten said:


> Why is everyone bitching about the straps... The biggest issue with these bindings is the baseplate. There like an inch thick, creating the ultimate dead-zone and they weigh a ton. They're sandbags on your ankles.
> 
> Response is good.
> Shock absorption is good.
> Ratchets freeze up sometimes.
> 
> BUT MY GOD THESE THINGS ARE HEAVY.


Want to know why? Because a few of us criticized Union for the toe straps and ratchets and the "OMG UNION IS PERFECT" people like NWO go all ape shit with condescending remarks.

With that said, Unions are super light now. I'm speaking for 2012 models.


----------



## WHOisDAN

My friend put a few runs on 2011/12 Union Forces this past weekend before the toe strap started to rip. Yes, they were properly adjusted.


----------



## rdot84

Beschatten said:


> Why is everyone bitching about the straps... The biggest issue with these bindings is the baseplate. There like an inch thick, creating the ultimate dead-zone and they weigh a ton. They're sandbags on your ankles.
> 
> Response is good.
> Shock absorption is good.
> Ratchets freeze up sometimes.
> 
> BUT MY GOD THESE THINGS ARE HEAVY.


I dont know what year union bindings you were riding but the newer models are super light. And there is absolutely no dead zone. Portions of the baseplate are actually hollowed out to allow more feel under your feet. Where are you getting your info from? Im no fanboy but from my experience they are the best feeling/responsive binding. Ill deal with a ratchet issue that goes away with use. Rather have a sticky ratchet then one that loosens all the time like my cartels did.

On a side note: What boots are people using with these bindings. Union doesnt have the best adjustability so boot fit could be a huge issue. Im using 2010 Burton Hail's with footprint reduction size 9


----------



## Himynameissean

You guys have me regretting buying these bindings so much lol


----------



## rdot84

^ You shouldn't. Awesome binding. Excellent response, good dampening and good all around flex. Dont let people discourage you.


----------



## CheeseForSteeze

Himynameissean said:


> You guys have me regretting buying these bindings so much lol


If they work for you well, then don't! They aren't *bad* bindings by any means. There's just some ergos and details they could vastly improve upon that don't detract from the overall binding too much, in my opinion.


----------



## rdot84

New_World_Order said:


> Nah Fuck these..Guys This forum is great but it is a trend fest! Everyone was sweating Union few years ago on here because it was fresh. No most people are trolls and wanna hate on people that like popular stuff..Union makes some the best bindings. Force are one of the best selling bindings for a reason.
> 
> The latest fad on here are Flux and Flow... I personally hate flows..
> 
> Try the force make your own judgment. Most equipment is personal preference anyway. People have different body types and athletic ability and mix that with riding styles you will get mixed opinions.
> 
> Still say the rachet issue is dude to having the straps not properly fit on the boots. And Forces are light. Not sure what that dude was talking about


Preach on brother :thumbsup:


----------



## Leo

Everyone was sweating union? You obviously do not know wtf you're talking about. Union had a huge following on this forum. It has since died down. Flow has always gotten shit and they still do mostly from hardcore Union fans like yourself.

You've already been proven to be ignorant. Keep talking Union up like they have 0 issues while other Union users who have owned more pairs and have been using them longer than you agree with the consensus.

Keep acting like that though. People like you detract from Union. Johan already turned off a lot of potential customers with his condescending and personal attacks.

Go back to Easy Loungin.


----------



## rdot84

Leo said:


> Everyone was sweating union? You obviously do not know wtf you're talking about. Union had a huge following on this forum. It has since died down. Flow has always gotten shit and they still do mostly from hardcore Union fans like yourself.
> 
> You've already been proven to be ignorant. Keep talking Union up like they have 0 issues while other Union users who have owned more pairs and have been using them longer than you agree with the consensus.
> 
> Keep acting like that though. People like you detract from Union. Johan already turned off a lot of potential customers with his condescending and personal attacks.
> 
> Go back to Easy Loungin.


I've really been biting my tongue with this guy. You can be informative but I swear you make it seem like your opinion is a godsend to this forum. It was mentioned that the trend on this site is no longer following union but leaning more towards flow and flux bindings. 

That being said. Your opinion is your opinion and different athletic abilities, boot sizes, stance and a whole slew of other factors will determine how you like a piece of equipment. Union makes a great binding that has characteristics that other bindings cant even compare too. And yes the ratchets are a little stiff. That doesnt take anything away from how the binding itself performs.


----------



## Leo

rdot84 said:


> I've really been biting my tongue with this guy. You can be informative but I swear you make it seem like your opinion is a godsend to this forum. It was mentioned that the trend on this site is no longer following union but leaning more towards flow and flux bindings.
> 
> That being said. Your opinion is your opinion and different athletic abilities, boot sizes, stance and a whole slew of other factors will determine how you like a piece of equipment. Union makes a great binding that has characteristics that other bindings cant even compare too. And yes the ratchets are a little stiff. That doesnt take anything away from how the binding itself performs.


Bite your tongue more. Otherwise, back up that bullshit claim you just made. Kindly point out the posts where I even insinuated that my opinion is godsend. 

I manned up to my mistake of being overtly antagonistic in this initial review. I never once even hinted that I'm some pro with a shit ton of experience. The guy you are defending right now brought up his bindign experience, not me. I review gear and give opinions/advice when it's wanted.

I don't go into other people's review to trash them. I don't go into other union binding threads and trash union bindings. At most, I trash the uber fan mentality. 

Now I am going to talk myself up. I didn't start this reviewing hobby until some people suggested it. I used to strictly give gear advice in the equipment sections. People saw that and asked why I don't just start reviewing.

I'm outspoken so won't argue there. I engage in debates all throughout these forums so I won't argue that either. But if you're going to say shit like I act like I'm a godsend, Fuck You. I don't use up my spare time to review for douche bags like you. I do it so people have one more opinion on the gear they are interested in. If you don't like what I do, then don't fucking read it.

You and NWO can go douche out together. 


I've said this over and over and I never ever lie about my skill level. I'm a stone cold advanced intermediate rider and a flaming noob in the park. I just happen to have access to a ton of demos. Take my opinion at face value. It's just one of many. 

It's easy to sit there and judge people isn't it? Hope you bit your god damn tongue off. 

By the way, I can't be a godsend... I'm a fucking atheist.


----------



## rdot84

Get your panties out of a bunch. Reading this thread you have been critical of anyone who says anything contrary to you and your opinion. Ill say it again. Everyone knows union bindings have issues with the ratchets but never have you heard of those ratchets slipping or breaking. Aside from that you said in your review that the binding was unresponsive and had no dampening. And then move on to promote the flux binding. 

Im just saying, your opinion is your opinion. Im no fan boy but i have to disagree with you thats all. Every other review i've read has said union bindings are some of the most responsive bindings on the market. The dampening is great again in my opinion. Maybe you should try them on something other than a skate banana. 

On a side note the Forces do feel very different in ankle support. This is due to the smaller ankle strap. They give you a lot of freedom to move. Some like this feeling some dont.

All said and done i think people need t chill out. Its easy to talk tough behind a desk on a keyboard. Just remember kiddies, everyone is entitled to their opinion. Try and play nice.


----------



## Leo

You must be mistaking me with someone else. The only person I criticized here is NWO. Furthermore, all I ever said was that the toe cap design is not up to par with expectations from a binding specific company. Neither are the ratchets. I also mirrored what you just said about dampening (lack of canting included).

Every other part of the binding I defended. DuPont Zytel plastic is effin bomb proof and Union uses that. Even in my old comments, I said Union's ankle strap and ratchets are great. Which makes me criticize their toe cap and ratchet more. 

I suggest you re-read my posts or try taking those Union goggles off first. Who else did I criticize here? Only NWO because he was being a complete condescending asshole.

And don't give me that "Internet tough guy" routine. You're the one that came at me guns blazing making ignorant assumptions about me personally. And trust me, I would have this same discourse with you in person.

As for union, I told the reps that day about the toe straps and ratchets. By the way, I rode the contact pros as well. Same feeling about the toe strap and ratchet. Cool base on those though.

Can we let this ridiculous thread die again? This shit was buried until someone fed it zombie juice.


----------



## rdot84

Leo said:


> You must be mistaking me with someone else. The only person I criticized here is NWO. Furthermore, all I ever said was that the toe cap design is not up to par with expectations from a binding specific company. Neither are the ratchets. I also mirrored what you just said about dampening (lack of canting included).
> 
> Every other part of the binding I defended. DuPont Zytel plastic is effin bomb proof and Union uses that. Even in my old comments, I said Union's ankle strap and ratchets are great. Which makes me criticize their toe cap and ratchet more.
> 
> I suggest you re-read my posts or try taking those Union goggles off first. Who else did I criticize here? Only NWO because he was being a complete condescending asshole.
> 
> And don't give me that "Internet tough guy" routine. You're the one that came at me guns blazing making ignorant assumptions about me personally. And trust me, I would have this same discourse with you in person.
> 
> As for union, I told the reps that day about the toe straps and ratchets. By the way, I rode the contact pros as well. Same feeling about the toe strap and ratchet. Cool base on those though.
> 
> Can we let this ridiculous thread die again? This shit was buried until someone fed it zombie juice.


Haha. (zombie juice). As usual things can be misinterpreted. I actually find your reviews to be informative and had mentioned that in an earlier post. Im not trying to attack you personally and never meant to offend. I was just responding to how you were the one calling people fanboys and telling them to go back to other sites and what not.

Anyway, thats the problem with forums. People hear what they want to read. (does that make sense Haha) Cant we all just get along. 

And just so its clear. Union ratchets suck....there i said it

Back to your regularly scheduled program.......


----------



## Leo

Alright, so let's say this is squashed.

For the record, I was only calling NWO a fanboy and telling him to go back to EL.

I don't use the term fanboy loosely. A fanboy is someone who ignores a pretty damn common criticism because they love the brand that much. A fanboy is someone who goes into negative reviews and bashes the person as being inexperienced. A fanboy is someone who goes into other binding threads proclaiming that their favorite brand is superior in every way.

You are a fan. NWO is a fanboy.

I was perfectly fine with this thread never being revived again. I've admitted numerous times that I was just bitter towards all the Union fans that trashed Flow threads. And this bitterness was made worse because in my eyes, Unions didn't live up to the hype. I will still try unions in a heartbeat especially if they perfect the toe strap. Really don't have anything against the company.


----------



## Beschatten

rdot84 said:


> I dont know what year union bindings you were riding but the newer models are super light. And there is absolutely no dead zone. Portions of the baseplate are actually hollowed out to allow more feel under your feet. Where are you getting your info from? Im no fanboy but from my experience they are the best feeling/responsive binding. Ill deal with a ratchet issue that goes away with use. Rather have a sticky ratchet then one that loosens all the time like my cartels did.
> 
> On a side note: What boots are people using with these bindings. Union doesnt have the best adjustability so boot fit could be a huge issue. Im using 2010 Burton Hail's with footprint reduction size 9


FOR CLARIFICATION:

Im on an older model. 2009/2010. My info isn't wrong, but it makes me fucking happy as balls to see them fixing alot of issues that I had on my model.

And just an update: My right ratchet is broken and my baseplate (WTF?) cracked. Of course I ride like a god damn boss so they had it coming to them anyways.

If you guys are talking about the 2012 model, disregard my bitching.


----------



## Leo

New_World_Order said:


> I dont play internet fad games and terms like "fanboy" so gay.....
> Im a fan yes...Is that a insult? No.
> 
> Union Force are awesome to (ME).........Better?


Terms like fanboy are "gay", yet your entrance to this forum with nothing but insults is___?


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## Snowboardit

After riding casual for 7 years, I decided to go for park my 8th. After doing months of research I found myself a Skate Banana 152 which is the best board I've ever ridden on in my life. The guy at the shop suggested the Force's and after doing some insane research on bindings as well, I had my mind set on the Rome 390's. But the price tag and the color that matched my board convinced me to just go with it. (not to mention it was very convenient.) That choice was probably the worst choice I have made in snowboarding. I've had the same thoughts and problems you have had and I'm frustrated out of my mind. The first time I hit the slopes I noticed that the toe strap seemed like it was made out of very cheap material and had no padding whatsoever. Not to mention that when I wanted to unstrap, I had to unstrap my top strap first and then proceed to pull my boot out of the binding. Worst bindings I've ever ridden. Definitely going for the 390's after I take these back. Glad I'm not the only one!


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## MikeCL

having got my first Union pair bindings today (DLX) I see what you guys mean by the toe straps with the amount of force needed to remove them you would think something would break.


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## vukovi21

i don't get it...like its the biggest fault in the world....

just put some down force on the buckle when you try to unlock it...it will be easier!!!!

and yes i have '12 forces...don't complain at all,would live to try new atlas


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## Gdog42

I have the DLX and the Force bindings, and that ratchet issue is just with the Force bindings.
On the DLX, the ratchets are much smoother and release a lot more easily. I like the more curved toe strap on the Forces, so I use those with the DLX ratchet on my back binding. On this season's Force bindings, they have longer and slightly thinner ladders for the toe straps, which makes the toe ratchets easier to release. 

As for the toe capping problem in the review, the toe straps have to be in the correct 2-position slots depending on what boot size and model you have. 
If you have a smaller boot size, you might need to put the into the back slots before mounting them to your board. 
I wear size 13 boots, and found that mine cap best with the inside slot at the back and the outside slot at the front. :blink: I'm getting new boots soon though so I might need to change that.
In this review it sounded like the toe straps needed to be in different slots.

With the binding off the board, put your boot in and strap the ankle strap. Then play around with the slots for the toe strap underneath until you find which setting allows you to cap it the best. Make sure it's the right length, too. It should be so that the opening in the strap is centered over the boot. This will also make it a little easier to release the ratchet.

It sounded like the toe strap was the only real problem in this review. I'm pretty sure it would work fine if adjusted right.

It's also easier to release it you pull the ratchet up with your index finger *while pushing down on the back with your thumb.* I've tried just using my index and it's nearly impossible to release, but using the thumb simultaneously gives an easy pop and it's out.


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## East§ide

Gdog42 said:


> I have the DLX and the Force bindings, and that ratchet issue is just with the Force bindings.
> On the DLX, the ratchets are much smoother and release a lot more easily. I like the more curved toe strap on the Forces, so I use those with the DLX ratchet on my back binding. On this season's Force bindings, they have longer and slightly thinner ladders for the toe straps, which makes the toe ratchets easier to release.
> 
> As for the toe capping problem in the review, the toe straps have to be in the correct 2-position slots depending on what boot size and model you have.
> If you have a smaller boot size, you might need to put the into the back slots before mounting them to your board.
> I wear size 13 boots, and found that mine cap best with the inside slot at the back and the outside slot at the front. :blink: I'm getting new boots soon though so I might need to change that.
> In this review it sounded like the toe straps needed to be in different slots.
> 
> With the binding off the board, put your boot in and strap the ankle strap. Then play around with the slots for the toe strap underneath until you find which setting allows you to cap it the best. Make sure it's the right length, too. It should be so that the opening in the strap is centered over the boot. This will also make it a little easier to release the ratchet.
> 
> It sounded like the toe strap was the only real problem in this review. I'm pretty sure it would work fine if adjusted right.
> 
> It's also easier to release it you pull the ratchet up with your index finger *while pushing down on the back with your thumb.* I've tried just using my index and it's nearly impossible to release, but using the thumb simultaneously gives an easy pop and it's out.


this _sometimes_ works... my toe caps dont stay on my boot regardless of where theyre screwed into the straps


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## Gdog42

East§ide said:


> this _sometimes_ works... my toe caps dont stay on my boot regardless of where theyre screwed into the straps


That's interesting.:huh:

Do you have a picture? I've never heard of them not staying on the boots before. What boots do you have?

I have a pair of Ride Anthem Boas (shit boots so I'm getting a different pair soon), and at first the cap did slip off and come up over the boot a couple of times. I just tightened the straps down more, which solved the problem. 
But my boots are still awkward to fit with their flat and wide toe boxes, so I've just been running them over the top instead of capping them, although I could cap them fine.


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