# Problems going straight/small turns on narrow tracks



## Psicko (Dec 26, 2015)

When navigating these areas, are you flat basing the board or are you staying on an edge? You should be on either toe side or heel side when going down catwalks or other narrow areas. I used to have issues with the same until I started always keeping my board on edge when navigating narrow areas.


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## fabiob (Jan 30, 2016)

Psicko said:


> When navigating these areas, are you flat basing the board or are you staying on an edge? You should be on either toe side or heel side when going down catwalks or other narrow areas. I used to have issues with the same until I started always keeping my board on edge when navigating narrow areas.


Flat basing. 
I avoid to be on edges because I fear overtuning (not funny on narrow catwalks...), and maybe it's the point that blocks me.
I'm going back to the hill in a few weeks and will try to be more on edge and control it on wider spaces, to get some confidence. 

thanks!


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## Psicko (Dec 26, 2015)

You don't need to have to have an extreme edge like deep carving, just enough to engage an edge.


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## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

several things

relax....you are too tight/stiff and thus overcompensate...its a subtle finesse movements in the feet ankles (not slashing or carving)

weight on the nose...straight down the fall line

be stacked and aligned with the intention to go straight down the track

keep the leading shoulder in the fall line or pointed down the track

get used to the speed

gently rock back and forth...edge to edge using ankles/feet


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## stillz (Jan 5, 2010)

If you can afford it, get a lesson and ask to learn how to carve. Carving is the other half of speed management, and knowing how to do it will get you down those cat tracks with ease.


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## fabiob (Jan 30, 2016)

wrathfuldeity said:


> several things
> 
> relax....you are too tight/stiff and thus overcompensate...its a subtle finesse movements in the feet ankles (not slashing or carving)
> 
> ...


thanks !
From what you say, it seems I'm trying the right things but maybe in the wrong way  I have to work harder!
"relax" and "get used to speed" maybe are what is still missing me more to succeed.
will pay more attention on shoulder position trying to lock it pointed down the hill, and keep on practicing the gently edge to edge, avoiding the flat basis as Psicko said.




stillz said:


> If you can afford it, get a lesson and ask to learn how to carve. Carving is the other half of speed management, and knowing how to do it will get you down those cat tracks with ease.


Thanks Stillz, I hadn't thought about taking lessons but why not... All I did as lessons was 1h at my first day on a board to get the basics and maybe it's time to have more.
When you talks about carving helping me, it's about edge control instead of sliding? Which is the link between carving and gently board control?


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## stillz (Jan 5, 2010)

Carves are just turns where the nose and the tail of your board follow the same path. Carves can be big, small, aggressive, mellow, etc. Carved turns are much quieter than skidded turns (especially on hard pack), and they leave clean, narrow, and sometimes deep lines in the snow. They also don't scrub speed the way skidding does, so you can make turns and maneuver around people but still keep your momentum for those flat sections.

Basically, you press the sidecut of your board into the snow and it will create a certain radius turn. It may feel a little out of control at first because you're not scrubbing speed. You'll get used to it, though. It should almost feel like you're on rails, securely locked into the turn. Once you really learn your sidecut, you'll find that the turn shape it creates is very consistent and predictable.

Any time you're feeling like you're starting to plateau is a good time for a lesson, or if there's some specific skill you want to work toward. Based on your first post, I think learning to carve will help you get around the mountain a lot more easily and having more fun.


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## speedjason (May 2, 2013)

Usually tight runs make people change edges difficult because lets face it most people can't change edges that fast. If it's not too steep I would just bomb it.


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## WasabiCanuck (Apr 29, 2015)

fabiob said:


> thanks !
> 
> 
> Thanks Stillz, I hadn't thought about taking lessons but why not... All I did as lessons was 1h at my first day on a board to get the basics and maybe it's time to have more.
> When you talks about carving helping me, it's about edge control instead of sliding? Which is the link between carving and gently board control?


I took a lesson when I was low-intermediate. Only lesson I ever took and it was good. I learned a bunch of good drills and tips for better edge control and learning switch riding (which I still suck at).

Narrow areas used to freak me out too. You just need better edge control. Try gentle pressure on your edges rather than flat base. I'm rarely flat base in my riding, 95% of the time I have some pressure on one edge or the other.


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

fabiob said:


> Flat basing.
> I avoid to be on edges because I fear overtuning (not funny on narrow catwalks...), and maybe it's the point that blocks me.
> I'm going back to the hill in a few weeks and will try to be more on edge and control it on wider spaces, to get some confidence.
> 
> thanks!


Don't. 

Begin to exercise flat basing as soon as you _have_ edge control. Not before. The other way around, it's a guarantee for catching edges.

What you pretty certainly are doing wrong in first place is weight distribution and leg bending. Loosen up and don't anxiously await the next fall... get your weight out of the back seat. With weight on hind leg + stiff legged nobody can steer. Get more weight to the front and deliberately bend your knees. This is so basically important cis edge transition begins at the front, not at the rear; having all the weight on the hind leg makes it impossible to have proper edge contol at the front... Point the nose down the narrow cattrack and swing the rear around, to take out speed, actively with your hind leg, not by counter rotating your upper body (!). Easiest way to control speed on a narrow track.


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## fabiob (Jan 30, 2016)

WasabiCanuck said:


> I took a lesson when I was low-intermediate. Only lesson I ever took and it was good. I learned a bunch of good drills and tips for better edge control and learning switch riding (which I still suck at).
> 
> Narrow areas used to freak me out too. You just need better edge control. Try gentle pressure on your edges rather than flat base. I'm rarely flat base in my riding, 95% of the time I have some pressure on one edge or the other.





stillz said:


> Any time you're feeling like you're starting to plateau is a good time for a lesson, or if there's some specific skill you want to work toward. Based on your first post, I think learning to carve will help you get around the mountain a lot more easily and having more fun.





neni said:


> Don't.
> 
> Begin to exercise flat basing as soon as you _have_ edge control. Not before. The other way around, it's a guarantee for catching edges.


Got it! Actually, when these narrow tracks had some small side inclination or presented a curve, it's true I felt more comfortable and now I realize that these are situations where I put myself more on the edges in order to turn or avoid sliding down the side the track. Like a rail as you said.
the edges! I will try this harder in some weeks.
And will think seriously on getting at least an 1h lesson to focus on carving/edge control and profit to clear other bad habits I surelly got. It seems a good point to do so.



neni said:


> What you pretty certainly are doing wrong in first place is weight distribution and leg bending. Loosen up and don't anxiously await the next fall... get your weight out of the back seat. With weight on hind leg + stiff legged nobody can steer. Get more weight to the front and deliberately bend your knees. This is so basically important cis edge transition begins at the front, not at the rear; having all the weight on the hind leg makes it impossible to have proper edge contol at the front... Point the nose down the narrow cattrack and swing the rear around, to take out speed, actively with your hind leg, not by counter rotating your upper body (!). Easiest way to control speed on a narrow track.


Neni, I really think that being "anxiously awaiting the next fall" has a major role and makes me stiff. Counter rotating is a clear sign of "panic" I think  I hope it goes off as I improve and get more confident!
I have tried to put more weight on the front and bend the more I could. It's a point I'm watching out activelly, cause not yet 100% acquired. But there still missed something, still unbalanced... probably it's the flat basis that where still there and the lack of ability to correctly gentle pressure on the edges. I must parctice it all together and harder.
For the rear foot, at one moment I tried to avoid swinging it cause felt it was a point of catching. It felt too loose, like losing the control of the tail. Will retry.

Thank you for all input and advices!
I can see better the main improvement levers can be.
Now comes the harder part, put everything together and make it work on real life 
Will give you feedback as soon I can practice it.


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## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

fabuloso...a nice little drill to get the idea of that it only takes alittle bit of subtle relaxed movement...is to ride 1 footed when ever possible...like when getting off a chair and there is room just continue to cruise as long as possible (there is a chair that on a good day I can do about 100 yards). Or when having to skate to anything...try to do 1 footy as long as you can.

This will help you in riding flats, flatbasing and in the long run will become an energy saving skill to have in your pocket and will build alot of confidence. Occasionally I see kids bombing our bunny hill 1 footed while eating a piece of pizza or drinking something...I'm not there yet...but perhaps someday.

This drill will help you to sort out any misalignment, stacking, rotational and weighting issues...basically you want a neutral stance with a slight weight on the nose (see the creepy basement vid). And mental relaxation included. lol Feel the chi pull you along...


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## Argo (Feb 25, 2010)

Are you talking about wide groomed smooth flat cat tracks that traverse from run to run OR are you talking about skinny, winding, bumpy traverses that look similar to goat trails that traverse the sides of the mountains/hills. 

Two completely different techniques would be used for them. 

The first I'd flatbase mostly and be stiff to rest my muscles between runs. I'm even inclined to put my hands on my hips and ride on my heels with legs stiff to let my legs and core rest on the smooth groomed cat tracks.

The second type are super tiring. Must keep speed up a bit but not too much so you get bucked off the trail and die. Legs bent, very active core and leg muscle use. Stay on edge slightly and sometimes I will just use the edges by my back foot to avoid catching my nose on a roller in the trail. This is some of the hardest riding to master.... kinda like being proficient in moguls. 

Given its been the same problem for 4 years it Sounds to me that it is alot of mental block for you, break through the mental block first then master the skills.


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## XxGoGirlxX (Jan 15, 2016)

wrathfuldeity said:


> fabuloso...a nice little drill to get the idea of that it only takes alittle bit of subtle relaxed movement...is to ride 1 footed when ever possible...like when getting off a chair and there is room just continue to cruise as long as possible (there is a chair that on a good day I can do about 100 yards). Or when having to skate to anything...try to do 1 footy as long as you can.
> 
> This will help you in riding flats, flatbasing and in the long run will become an energy saving skill to have in your pocket and will build alot of confidence. Occasionally I see kids bombing our bunny hill 1 footed while eating a piece of pizza or drinking something...I'm not there yet...but perhaps someday.


Last week I tried youtube searches for one legged / one foot snowboarding... could not get a clear idea of what you mean, so pardon my stupid question: Do you mean your back foot unstrapped but still down on the board somewhere? 

It helped me out a little to try and copy this dude at 15 seconds into this video: 




I spent a day in my driveway and my idle time at the bottom of the lifeline playing around spinning unstrapped on my board, running and hopping on it etc. and silly as it sounds I think it helped me feel a little more confident with the unstrapped slippy feel of the board.


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## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

Its just when your front/leading foot is strapped-in but your rear foot is loose and usually on the stomp pad...like when you are dismounting from a chair...or skating around.

Some pro are great at 1 footy, doing all kinds of stuff...not me...its a good day if I don't fall at least 1 time during the day when getting off the lift.


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## speedjason (May 2, 2013)

wrathfuldeity said:


> Its just when your front/leading foot is strapped-in but your rear foot is loose and usually on the stomp pad...like when you are dismounting from a chair...or skating around.
> 
> Some pro are great at 1 footy, doing all kinds of stuff...not me...its a good day if I don't fall at least 1 time during the day when getting off the lift.


Skating and turning without back end washing out on you really is to see how your body is aligned and your front foot edging the board.
Regardless most of the time it probably don't matter>


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## fabiob (Jan 30, 2016)

wrathfuldeity said:


> This drill will help you to sort out any misalignment, stacking, rotational and weighting issues...basically you want a neutral stance with a slight weight on the nose (see the creepy basement vid). And mental relaxation included. lol Feel the chi pull you along...


I tried this some times last weekend going off the chair lifts, but my main objective was just improve to avoid falling when getting the "poma lifts". The small portion of the hill where I was riding were not so "snowboarder friendly".... I can say that going off the lifts is getting easier one footed, but still no clean sheet day. 
I saw the Mr Miyagi basement video  will try my Karate Kid ride next time!


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## fabiob (Jan 30, 2016)

Argo said:


> The second type are super tiring. Must keep speed up a bit but not too much so you get bucked off the trail and die. Legs bent, very active core and leg muscle use. Stay on edge slightly and sometimes I will just use the edges by my back foot to avoid catching my nose on a roller in the trail. This is some of the hardest riding to master.... kinda like being proficient in moguls.
> 
> Given its been the same problem for 4 years it Sounds to me that it is alot of mental block for you, break through the mental block first then master the skills.


It's the second case, the skinny, narrow, goat trail like. 
Feels like I'll have lots to practice! 
And yeah, a little bit annoyed that after some seasons this is still a problem... that's why I want to attack it.


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## stillz (Jan 5, 2010)

Nice catch, Argo. I know I assumed he was talking about cat tracks, and this is way more advanced. Still, lessons help. 

Narrow (single track) traverses can be really difficult, and riding them gracefully requires blending a whole bunch of high-level skills together, in addition to solid basics (athletic position, front foot steering, standing on top of the board and not uphill of it). Holding a carving edge to maintain speed (but without digging it too much), subtle pivoting movements to smear little bits of speed away where you can or need to, absorbing weird shapes where it gets bumpy, unweighting/airing to go over rocks, etc. I'd suggest practicing in moguls, glades, and even the park (jibs for precise board placement) to build these skills up.

You'll also need good tactics. Good line selection helps a ton. Even if it looks tiny, you'll have some choices. Knowing the traverse better will help a lot with that, so just be safe and keep practicing. Also, knowing if there are people on the thing that will stop in front of you and force you to lose all your momentum is key (step off the traverse if you want to gape!).


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## fabiob (Jan 30, 2016)

stillz said:


> Nice catch, Argo. I know I assumed he was talking about cat tracks, and this is way more advanced. Still, lessons help.
> 
> Narrow (single track) traverses can be really difficult, and riding them gracefully requires blending a whole bunch of high-level skills together, in addition to solid basics (athletic position, front foot steering, standing on top of the board and not uphill of it). Holding a carving edge to maintain speed (but without digging it too much), subtle pivoting movements to smear little bits of speed away where you can or need to, absorbing weird shapes where it gets bumpy, unweighting/airing to go over rocks, etc. I'd suggest practicing in moguls, glades, and even the park (jibs for precise board placement) to build these skills up.
> 
> You'll also need good tactics. Good line selection helps a ton. Even if it looks tiny, you'll have some choices. Knowing the traverse better will help a lot with that, so just be safe and keep practicing. Also, knowing if there are people on the thing that will stop in front of you and force you to lose all your momentum is key (step off the traverse if you want to gape!).


Sorry if not clear about the type of track.
I found the image below on the web (not mine) to illustrate the type of track I'm talking about. Hill at one side, nothing the other side, some times even a little bit narrower than this. The point is that there is not enough space to surf wide, what leads to a more straight / precise run.
For the moment, the one that stop in front of others making them lose their momentum is me


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## f00bar (Mar 6, 2014)

I actually hate these kinds of tracks. They are often narrower, lined with cliff/boulders/pipes on the one side, drop off on the other. And at least on the east coast almost always ice or super hard pack. I'm fine on my own, but as soon as you add the element of little ones doing pizza from one side to the other I kind of freak out. I simply am not good at timing a way to pass them in a way I feel safe.


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## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

fabiob said:


> Sorry if not clear about the type of track.
> I found the image below on the web (not mine) to illustrate the type of track I'm talking about. Hill at one side, nothing the other side, some times even a little bit narrower than this. The point is that there is not enough space to surf wide, what leads to a more straight / precise run.
> For the moment, the one that stop in front of others making them lose their momentum is me


There are of 2 of these...maybe 1/2 mile long that links two sides of the mountain. One is a blue level and the other is a black...and they take completely different skills at an advanced level.

The blue one is what Skillz is talking about....but at the bottom of the track there is a sharp 90 degree left turn that then goes to a 1/8 mile flat and the very end (last 20 yards) is uphill . So the issue is at the last 1/3 of the track before the turn...you have to keep up you speed to make it through the flat. AND on busy days right before the turn it gets a little rolly :surprise:. Thus its definite some advanced skills required....bomb, absorb rollys, sharp turn and flatbasing. Its doable and feels like a major accomplishment but not for the faint hearted.

The black one basically takes keeping your leading shoulder in the fall line and then moving the board under you in a windshield wiper fashion. Unless you want to bomb it and you will definitely hit the 50-60 mph range into a merging area from a couple of other runs. And often the track has icy scraped off patches.


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## Oldman (Mar 7, 2012)

Lifts and narrow tracks.

I find that for most new riders, these are the two most difficult things to master. 

Narrow tracks are a real challenge. Toss in a bunch of skiers along the way and they become a riders worst nightmare. Speed control is key. However, before you can have speed control you need to be able to "straight line" or "bomb" as some like to call it, at all speeds, on both edges.

It is far easier to practise these skills on a regular hill. One of the best suggestions I ever got was to learn to go down a green run and force yourself to stay within a very narrow "corridor" say less than the width of a groomer track. Check your speed from time to time, but stay inside your "corridor". You are basically going to "straight line" the run, but practise on both toe and heel edge as you will find that on most "tracks" the fall line will have you on one or the other for most of the track. ( Calf burners baby ) Force yourself to keep your speed checked and under control. 

By doing this exercise, you will learn how to ride both edges in a straight line and control your speed. All of the skills you need to tackle those ugly narrow cat tracks.


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

f00bar said:


> I actually hate these kinds of tracks. They are often narrower, lined with cliff/boulders/pipes on the one side, drop off on the other. And at least on the east coast almost always ice or super hard pack. I'm fine on my own, but as soon as you add the element of little ones doing pizza from one side to the other I kind of freak out. I simply am not good at timing a way to pass them in a way I feel safe.



Lol, be glad that they're hardpack, this means they're predictable all day. Over here, they become moguled out in the steeper parts. One is happily charging a track... just to hit a minefield around the bend ... aiaiaiaiii! 

OP, some years back, I had problems with those narrow tracks as well. It's a matter of a) being capable to turn wherever YOU want - i.e. not the slope dictates your turns but you're the master over the spot and timing and b) be confident into your abilities of a). 

It helped me to exercise to stay in a narrow corridor on a open slope. Imagine your boundaries on a wide slope and try to stay within those boundaries. Look at your line and DO turns in a certain timing, even if the ground right at that spot may not be inviting for a turn. It'll teach you to make turns wherever you WANT, without the psychological pressure of being on a narrow track. At some point, you've done enough turns in spots which are "not so comfy", your legs will rememver to handle whatever ground is beneath your board and your mind is completely free to scan the line. Keep at it, it's just a matter of exercise.


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## t21 (Dec 29, 2010)

Staying on your edge and speed control is key on this narrow tracks as everyone has mentioned. Always make room in front of you to speed checks as needed and stay close to the mountain, so if someone in front of you stops you can still have room to ride up the side of the hill and around someone.:grin: Always be aware of your surroundings to see your escape route just in case.


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## fabiob (Jan 30, 2016)

Hi all,

After 4 days of snowboarding trying to apply all your tips, I’d like to give you some feedback on it. Maybe this can be useful for other people of intermediate level like me.

-What made most difference for me is deliberately putting weight on front leg and bending knees. Each time I did it (and kept it), I surfed better. On cat tracks or anywhere else in the slope. When tired and/or not concentrated, and returned to the back leg, started washing and loosing balance. 
-Thanks to the first point, it got easier to press toe and heel with shorter movements and control direction from the front foot. Still not mastering it but I got how it works. Now it must become smoother and cleaner. Sometimes wanted to change edges faster than necessary in order to control speed but ended up losing stability, other times passed too long on a flat position trying to be smooth and ended up washing out. Felt that heel side is more difficult to do and often ended up sliding = overturning = harder to come back to narrow turns. 
- Bonus: both points above also helped me start cleaning up the “overaction” I have on the upper body and mainly on the back leg, that tries to slide each time to compensate lack of edge engagement... Not 100% done but progressing quickly. Turns are becoming more controlled and less slided. And riding less weird. 
- I felt that being on the edges on narrow straight paths is more comfortable and controllable than being completely flat. Felt more on a rail and stable. Nevertheless, it makes the board accelerate and I was obliged to slide from time to time to brake. Don't know if it's the right way to "speed check". It's also a matter of getting more confident to deal with speed.
- Turning front knee to guide foot movements. When concentrated on opening or closing front knee turning was easier to engage, slower or faster, narrow cat tracks or downhill. Sometimes, on toe side and when I bent more my knees, I could somehow start "carving" - what was not necessarily a good thing at this point because it worked like a "launchpad" - but sign that turn were well engaged. After some practice, it became more natural and precise.
- Practiced all this in cat tracks and in a regular hill trying to keep into a "corridor". I must admit it was easier without a precise path nor a drop off... So psychological blockage is a component that I must work on, and I feel it's going away as I master more the techniques.

So, final balance : really felt big improvement and better mastering of my ride, not only on this specific situation but in overall riding. Passing through cat tracks is lot better concerning direction/turning, but still to work concerning speed control. Toe side is more precise and comfortable than heel side (maybe the answer is knee bending, more present on toe side). Still lots to practice and correct before saying it’s “natural” or smooth, but I think now I’m on the good way. Couldn’t take a lesson this time, but it’s #1 of my list for next season. 

Thanks again for all your help!


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## WasabiCanuck (Apr 29, 2015)

Like most things...you improve with practice. Glad to hear it went better. Imagine how good we would all be if we could just quit our jobs and ride 200 days a year.

:hairy:


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## Kenai (Dec 15, 2013)

WasabiCanuck said:


> Like most things...you improve with practice. Glad to hear it went better. Imagine how good we would all be if we could just quit our jobs and ride 200 days a year.


I imagine that every single day!


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

WasabiCanuck said:


> Like most things...you improve with practice. Glad to hear it went better. Imagine how good we would all be if we could just quit our jobs and ride 200 days a year.
> 
> :hairy:


What ur doing the other 100 days? (65 already calculated for weather, translocation n hangovers)


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