# Lightest stiffer bindings.



## dave785 (Jan 21, 2016)

how about rome katana instead of the targa?


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## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

Get a set of sparks surge bingings and several set of volie canted pucks or some of the other things from missoula mt for each board

be spendy and perhaps overkill for those boards


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## snowman55 (Feb 17, 2012)

dave785 said:


> how about rome katana instead of the targa?


How does Katana compare in weight and responsiveness to the Vitas and Cartel?

Thanks.


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## snowman55 (Feb 17, 2012)

wrathfuldeity said:


> Get a set of sparks surge bingings and several set of volie canted pucks or some of the other things from missoula mt for each board
> 
> be spendy and perhaps overkill for those boards


Thanks for the suggestion but aren't the Sparks Surge for splitboards?


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## linvillegorge (Jul 6, 2009)

Not sure why so many people fret over a couple ounces in binding weight. Want to shave a few ounces? Just be diligent in kicking the snow off of your board. There ya go, there's those ounces.


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

Katana is lighter than Cartel and heavier than Genesis.
Targas are heavy.

Ride Capo are not too heavy, they are pretty light.
Ride Hefe lighter and more responsive.

Now Reccon are super light and super responsive.

Flux Team are suuper light and very responsive. No cushion though.


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## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

snowman55 said:


> Thanks for the suggestion but aren't the Sparks Surge for splitboards?


yes...but just having a set of pucks on your other boards...changing your binding to another board will only take seconds and they are light stiff ass bindings


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## redlude97 (Jan 9, 2008)

wrathfuldeity said:


> yes...but just having a set of pucks on your other boards...changing your binding to another board will only take seconds and they are light stiff ass bindings


To clarify, you need spark one binding pucks or prowder saddles to use on a solid board.


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## txb0115 (Sep 20, 2015)

Burton X-Base are gonna be the lightest you'll find.. A lot of $$$ though.. This is a good time to buy them if you can find them marked down


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## Someoldguy (Jun 21, 2011)

linvillegorge said:


> Not sure why so many people fret over a couple ounces in binding weight. Want to shave a few ounces? Just be diligent in kicking the snow off of your board. There ya go, there's those ounces.


Pretty much this. A few years back I was into trying to shave off as much weight as I could from the gear. I weighed out a bunch of stuff on the bathroom scale, and even "ultra light boots" showed the same weight as older non-"ultra light weight". Bindings and boards I found the same thing, if they were made in the past 5 years or so, they weighed exactly the same. I was lured and fooled by the marketing term "super mega ultra light weight". Maybe those carbon fiber Burton bindings are noticeable difference, but not as much as just kicking some snow off your board on the chairlift as linvillegorge said.


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## taco tuesday (Jul 26, 2014)

The Katana has a softer highback than the Targa. I have not ridden the Katana though so i can't say how that translates in responsiveness. My guess is that being softer would make it less responsive.


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## snowman55 (Feb 17, 2012)

F1EA said:


> Katana is lighter than Cartel and heavier than Genesis.
> Targas are heavy.
> 
> Ride Capo are not too heavy, they are pretty light.
> ...



Perfect. This is the exact type of info I was looking for. I'll probably end up getting the Capo or Hefe. Thanks man.


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## Brian_Blessed (Apr 1, 2017)

Someoldguy said:


> Pretty much this. A few years back I was into trying to shave off as much weight as I could from the gear. I weighed out a bunch of stuff on the bathroom scale, and even "ultra light boots" showed the same weight as older non-"ultra light weight". Bindings and boards I found the same thing, if they were made in the past 5 years or so, they weighed exactly the same. I was lured and fooled by the marketing term "super mega ultra light weight". Maybe those carbon fiber Burton bindings are noticeable difference, but not as much as just kicking some snow off your board on the chairlift as linvillegorge said.


Im sure there is a lot of marketing BS floating about, but in my experience just this week having just weighed my Vans Fargo dual boa boots (1.5kg each, or 3.3lbs) against my friends old 32 ultralight (780g each, about 1.9lbs) thats a big difference per boot. I was shocked. Bindings can also easily be +/- 400g each so it can add up to quite a lot of weight to constantly lug around all day.

Im actually surprised weights dont get stated as a matter of course. Not the most important thing obviously, but worth knowing id say.


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## Deacon (Mar 2, 2013)

Someoldguy said:


> Pretty much this. A few years back I was into trying to shave off as much weight as I could from the gear. I weighed out a bunch of stuff on the bathroom scale, and even "ultra light boots" showed the same weight as older non-"ultra light weight". Bindings and boards I found the same thing, if they were made in the past 5 years or so, they weighed exactly the same. I was lured and fooled by the marketing term "super mega ultra light weight". Maybe those carbon fiber Burton bindings are noticeable difference, but not as much as just kicking some snow off your board on the chairlift as linvillegorge said.


If you seriously want to shave weight, you need a kitchen scale, something that measures grams, not 1/2 pounds or 1/2 kilos....


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## Elektropow (Mar 6, 2014)

The more locked in and responsive feel you get from your bindings the lighter your board will feel to whip around. Doesn't mean it's easier to do everything on the board. Anyway, that means more than shaving grams off bindings. Also need a responsove boot without movement inside. Any lag and looseness makes your board feel heavier.

Just something to think about or what you'll find out down the road. Gram savings only become relevant if you do over day long treks touring.


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## francium (Jan 12, 2013)

Make sure you have a turd in the morning that'll save you lugging around a few extra grams.


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## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

That combo of needs is probably Capo or Hefe. No canto g get Now Recons or Flux XF or Team. Heavier get Rome Targa.


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## snowman55 (Feb 17, 2012)

Nivek said:


> That combo of needs is probably Capo or Hefe. No canto g get Now Recons or Flux XF or Team. Heavier get Rome Targa.



I did end up getting the Capo. Thanks for the info.


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## snowman55 (Feb 17, 2012)

Nivek said:


> That combo of needs is probably Capo or Hefe. No canto g get Now Recons or Flux XF or Team. Heavier get Rome Targa.


BTW, I saw that you own K2 Lien AT. How does that compare to Salomon Defender as far response, weight, etc... I'm thinking of getting one of those bindings to replace the Cartels for my Assassin. Thanks.


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## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

Actually not too far from each other. I personally preferred the way the ATs feel. But I have both ATs on a deck and a set of Districts.


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## snowman55 (Feb 17, 2012)

Nivek said:


> Actually not too far from each other. I personally preferred the way the ATs feel. But I have both ATs on a deck and a set of Districts.


Do you mind sharing why you prefer the AT? Is it response, comfort or something else? Also, would it work with the Salomon Assassin for general cruising around All mountain riding ? Thanks.


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## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

I have the Districts for carving. I like them for that as they provide freedom of movement side to side but are completely locked down front to back. That's where the Liens differ. The Tripod frame does still offer any desired drive front to back but are a little smoother and maintain just a little bit of the surfy feel you get side to side, front to back. So for all mountain shenanigans I like the way the Tripod frame rides. For carving I like the edge to edge power of Shadow Fit. My more carving oriented decks are all Flow or Shadow Fit. Freeride, Targas. Park DSs.


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## snowman55 (Feb 17, 2012)

Nivek said:


> I have the Districts for carving. I like them for that as they provide freedom of movement side to side but are completely locked down front to back. That's where the Liens differ. The Tripod frame does still offer any desired drive front to back but are a little smoother and maintain just a little bit of the surfy feel you get side to side, front to back. So for all mountain shenanigans I like the way the Tripod frame rides. For carving I like the edge to edge power of Shadow Fit. My more carving oriented decks are all Flow or Shadow Fit. Freeride, Targas. Park DSs.


Thanks for the detail info.


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## Wss64 (Sep 21, 2016)

Diodes.
Nice to have it all as light as possible but in the end, on the snow.... not sure if you'll really feel the difference... My SLX boots weigh a ton compared to some of the other boots out there... but I guess my Diodes make up for it...


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## JoeyOranges (Mar 9, 2011)

Nivek said:


> I have the Districts for carving. I like them for that as they provide freedom of movement side to side but are completely locked down front to back. That's where the Liens differ. The Tripod frame does still offer any desired drive front to back but are a little smoother and maintain just a little bit of the surfy feel you get side to side, front to back. So for all mountain shenanigans I like the way the Tripod frame rides. For carving I like the edge to edge power of Shadow Fit. My more carving oriented decks are all Flow or Shadow Fit. Freeride, Targas. Park DSs.




Why the Districts for carving and not a stiffer Shadow Fit like Defender or Quantum?


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## Elektropow (Mar 6, 2014)

JoeyOranges said:


> Why the Districts for carving and not a stiffer Shadow Fit like Defender or Quantum?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


 Tip to tail flex. Lets you move weight around the board and manipulate carves better. Sure, a dead cast stiff ride is nice from time to time but it's not as dynamic which is why I've personally moved towards softer setups for carving.

Did not mean to answer for nivek.


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## JoeyOranges (Mar 9, 2011)

Elektropow said:


> Tip to tail flex. Lets you move weight around the board and manipulate carves better. Sure, a dead cast stiff ride is nice from time to time but it's not as dynamic which is why I've personally moved towards softer setups for carving.
> 
> 
> 
> Did not mean to answer for nivek.




I've got some Quantums and feel like there's still a lot of tip to tail freedom. 


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## Elektropow (Mar 6, 2014)

JoeyOranges said:


> I've got some Quantums and feel like there's still a lot of tip to tail freedom.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I've owned quantums and tried districts and own lien fs. World of difference between the two salomons and I like the liens most for carving. I feel in a way they work similar to now tech finding that contact point to transfer energy to the edges that much more quickly and efficiently vs. leaning into squishy foam and putting more effort in it. Not as snappy as though.


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## JoeyOranges (Mar 9, 2011)

Elektropow said:


> I've owned quantums and tried districts and own lien fs. World of difference between the two salomons and I like the liens most for carving. I feel in a way they work similar to now tech finding that contact point to transfer energy to the edges that much more quickly and efficiently vs. leaning into squishy foam and putting more effort in it. Not as snappy as though.




Interesting about the liens. I've got a pair of BNIB ATs that I've been looking to sell, but maybe I'll mount them up for a few laps instead. 


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## Elektropow (Mar 6, 2014)

JoeyOranges said:


> Interesting about the liens. I've got a pair of BNIB ATs that I've been looking to sell, but maybe I'll mount them up for a few laps instead.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I've last season's lien fs' and the same thing happened to me when I just tried to ride with them on a too stiff a board. I now ride without the pads as it gives a better flex and better energy transfer in my experience, though not as solid of a feeling. I've got them on a salomon sabotage and apart from pure ice I really like to do carve tricks on that setup. Ollie pop is nice as well as they bend from tip to tail quite nicely.

Way OT.


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## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

JoeyOranges said:


> Why the Districts for carving and not a stiffer Shadow Fit like Defender or Quantum?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Having ridden every iterating of every shadow fit, there performance edge to edge changes very little. The Quantums with a carbon highback are barely more responsive edge to edge than Districts. Having the heelcup that high and the highback that cupped makes them pretty stiff and supportive regardless of material used except maybe urethane, but they don't offer that. And for my needs the softer tip to tail flex mattered more than a vague edge to edge benefit. 

On the Quantums specifically, go read my review of them on Angry Snowboarder. I think they're a lawyer binding.


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## unsuspected (Oct 26, 2015)

Nivek said:


> Having ridden every iterating of every shadow fit, there performance edge to edge changes very little. The Quantums with a carbon highback are barely more responsive edge to edge than Districts. Having the heelcup that high and the highback that cupped makes them pretty stiff and supportive regardless of material used except maybe urethane, but they don't offer that. And for my needs the softer tip to tail flex mattered more than a vague edge to edge benefit.
> 
> On the Quantums specifically, go read my review of them on Angry Snowboarder. I think they're a lawyer binding.


I have the Mirage W, which is the male equivalent? Have them paired up with a Super8.


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## JoeyOranges (Mar 9, 2011)

Nivek said:


> Having ridden every iterating of every shadow fit, there performance edge to edge changes very little. The Quantums with a carbon highback are barely more responsive edge to edge than Districts. Having the heelcup that high and the highback that cupped makes them pretty stiff and supportive regardless of material used except maybe urethane, but they don't offer that. And for my needs the softer tip to tail flex mattered more than a vague edge to edge benefit.
> 
> On the Quantums specifically, go read my review of them on Angry Snowboarder. I think they're a lawyer binding.




Thanks, Nivek. Read the review previously and saw that Defender and Quantum are very similar in feel, just surprised about how close all the ShadowFits ride. 

Cheers!


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## Brian_Blessed (Apr 1, 2017)

Elektropow said:


> I've last season's lien fs' and the same thing happened to me when I just tried to ride with them on a too stiff a board. I now ride without the pads as it gives a better flex and better energy transfer in my experience, though not as solid of a feeling. I've got them on a salomon sabotage and apart from pure ice I really like to do carve tricks on that setup. Ollie pop is nice as well as they bend from tip to tail quite nicely.
> 
> Way OT.


Having just bought some Lien AT for my also new Slash ATV, im interested in what you are describing there. My Liens came with 3 hardnesses of pads. Noticeably softer/harder than each other.

The Slash is a stiff camber board and ill be aiming to improve my technique while riding it, to be honest its a lot more advanced than i am! Will i benefit from the softer pads at first? How will the different pads feel while riding?

For anyone interested, they are 876g each in size L. Quite light.


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## Deacon (Mar 2, 2013)

Brian_Blessed said:


> Having just bought some Lien AT for my also new Slash ATV, im interested in what you are describing there. My Liens came with 3 hardnesses of pads. Noticeably softer/harder than each other.
> 
> The Slash is a stiff camber board and ill be aiming to improve my technique while riding it, to be honest its a lot more advanced than i am! Will i benefit from the softer pads at first? How will the different pads feel while riding?
> 
> For anyone interested, they are 876g each in size L. Quite light.


I don't know that I'd want softer bindings on an aggressive board. Imagine a Ferrari that steers like a cargo van. It's a good way to catch an edge.


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## Elektropow (Mar 6, 2014)

Yeah the at's frame is still probably softish with a more supportive highback. I'm sure nivek will chime in. THe fs' do make it quite easy to hold an edge due to the pods, but otherwise throwing an aggressive board around, they're not snappy enough. Though I've never tried the AT's nor swapped any pods. If you want a more relaxed ride on edge that's responsove, the nows are.better. Though there's quite a bit of forward lean on my recons even with the adjuster removed.


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## Phedder (Sep 13, 2014)

I just snagged a pair of Union MC Metafuses. I'm legitimately shocked how light they are, and the carbonfibre highback has zero give straight back but a nice bit of give side to side. If you want light and stiff I'd say these have to be pretty damn up there, the foot bed is carbon as well, not much padding. I can tell they won't be my cup of tea but definitely need to give them a day or two!


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## SGboarder (Jun 24, 2012)

Phedder said:


> I just snagged a pair of Union MC Metafuses. I'm legitimately shocked how light they are, and the carbonfibre highback has zero give straight back but a nice bit of give side to side. If you want light and stiff I'd say these have to be pretty damn up there, the foot bed is carbon as well, not much padding. I can tell they won't be my cup of tea but definitely need to give them a day or two!


They are actually not that stiff, or at least don't ride that way (the plush straps probably contributed to that). Definitely softer than the Union Factory/T Rice/etc let alone most of the forge carbon stuff.


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## Phedder (Sep 13, 2014)

SGboarder said:


> They are actually not that stiff, or at least don't ride that way (the plush straps probably contributed to that). Definitely softer than the Union Factory/T Rice/etc let alone most of the forge carbon stuff.


I haven't ridden many other unions to compare against, but they certainly felt very responsive, more so than my Now Drives at least. Perfect for snappy cross-unders but that bit of lateral flex was definitely appreciated as well. It was a warm pow day though and ice build up on the footbed was super frustrating, that alone is a deal breaker for me, and definitely a bit harsh on the end of day chopped mess, but not as bad as I'd expected for the lack of baseplate/footbed padding.


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