# Freeride/Pow quiver board selection and size?



## RLCCM (Dec 29, 2016)

Hi all, I'm looking for a powder board to add to the quiver, and with huge amount of choice out there I'm really starting to get a bit lost. I'm an out and out Freerider, only using piste to get to get off it - though I won't claim to be the best rider ever for sure, especially I never realy spent the time to learn tricks and big jumps or anything! But I do live near enough to the alps to ride at weekends, rather than being the one or two holidays a year type. 

However this year I'm planning to spend 10 days riding in Japan for some real pow and thought it's time I add a genuine Pow board to the quiver - but I've not had many snowboards in my life and struggle to choose, nor ever ridden a true pow board, but want something for this trip, as well as those rare pow days in Europe. Bearing this in mind, it should be something that is eipc in pow, but can also be ridden across crud and rubbish to get to it - in Europe that's a necessity, and especially as what pow there is tends to get used up very quickly! 

Mostly I currently ride a 2012(ish) Arbor A-frame 162 - pure camber charger, I like its stability, and though it's not bad in pow, it is still quite hard work on the back leg, and needs a LOT of speed to really start floating. That might be due to my weight though - kitted out I'll get up to 110kg (which at 5'11 is pretty hefty), which is a bit over most boards recommended range! 

I also have a Rome Anthem SS 159 hyrbid, also a reasonably stiff board, but more towards all-mountain. 

SO I've narrowed to a few choices - (and open to others) 
1. Jones Hovercraft/Ultracraft 160 - I like the idea of camber between the feet for power and the rocker nose/short tail. seems a senible solution for me, but anyone have experience with them, or which to recommend of these two very similar boards? I'm told the Hovercraft is a bit soft - but It's been many years since I rode a softer board... I just dont know really how much difference it makes! I know these boards ride longer than they are, but will it be big enough for effortless float with rider weight in mind?

2. Jones Hovercraft 164 - extra size for added float, but would it turn into a bit of a barge - effectively riding more towards a 170 than 160??

3. West Six Carro 160 - a small swiss company that I found in a local shop, the board has a similar idea ot teh hovercraft but with a more pronounced camber between the feet, and slightly wider at its widest. It's stiffer than a hovercraft, and the guy in the shop says its a good board - paticularly to punch through crud and ice, but the hovercraft has been perfected over the years by a much bigger company with better research budgets! 

4. Arbor Cosa Nostra/Shreddy Kreuger 162 - meant o be good, though will its rocker profile be a good idea compared to the Jones? how big a handling differeence will they give?

5. Capita Spring Break - 165 thingy witthe hole in it - looks great, any ideas how it will actually ride when compared to say the hovercraft or Arbor?

I'm really trying to get an idea of how they compare to each other to actually ride in teh deep stuff, as well as getting to the deep stuff - and most reviews tend not to say much in terms of comparisons.

Shoud I be looking at something bigger, with my over-average rider weight?

Thanks in advance


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## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

disclaimer...never rode j-pow...idk...I'm 80kg and my pow board in the usual fairly dense/wet pow (pnw maritime) that is 45-60+cm depth is a charlie slasher164...so me thinks at 110kg you ought to be in at least 180cm+ for a pow cannon.


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## Kenai (Dec 15, 2013)

Dupraz D1? You could get a stiffer than standard flex on the 5.5 or jump up to the 6.0. I haven't heard anything negative. My wife loves her board, including freeriding in Austria last year. When we got back I picked up a very similarl board - Prior Fissile - that I am getting to know now. Great float and stability, but with significant sidecut it also carves beautifully.


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## Lad Stones (Sep 9, 2016)

Kenai said:


> Dupraz D1? You could get a stiffer than standard flex on the 5.5 or jump up to the 6.0. I haven't heard anything negative. My wife loves her board, including freeriding in Austria last year. When we got back I picked up a very similarl board - Prior Fissile - that I am getting to know now. Great float and stability, but with significant sidecut it also carves beautifully.


New range out now: Les snowboards Dupraz


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## SGboarder (Jun 24, 2012)

164 Hovercraft sounds just like the ticket for you. Will float amazing and keep in mind that it is basically the same size as your current boards.

Don't know the West, but it looks like a Hovercraft clone so could be good too. Has quite a bit more taper.

The Arbor decks could work but with thi full rocker profile will be a very different ride from what you are used to.
Spring Break boards are one trick ponies. Great float for powder cruising but not for hard riding and suck in crud and chop.
Dupraz not recommended for Japan and what you are describing.


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## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

Flow Darwin?


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## SGboarder (Jun 24, 2012)

Nivek said:


> Flow Darwin?


That would be great choice too. Also some Burton boards like the gatekeeper.


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## timmytard (Mar 19, 2009)

wrathfuldeity said:


> disclaimer...never rode j-pow...idk...I'm 80kg and my pow board in the usual fairly dense/wet pow (pnw maritime) that is 45-60+cm depth is a charlie slasher164...so me thinks at 110kg you ought to be in at least 180cm+ for a pow cannon.


I think wrath nailed it.

A 183 quiver Cannon
I just picked one up locally for someone and shipped it fuck did it ever look nice


TT


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

timmytard said:


> I think wrath nailed it.
> 
> A 183 quiver Cannon
> I just picked one up locally for someone and shipped it fuck did it ever look nice
> ...


Hmmmm... 
OP, I wouldn't base the size decision on ppls experience with totally different type of snow (sorry TT). 

I've ridden in Japan too few days to dare a recommendation. What was striking is that snow is such a different animal from what we in the Alps have or also to the dense maritime Alaskan snow. It's like a cloud of downs you fly _through_ than snow you ride _on_. The snow in Colorado seemed similarly light/fluffy. In heavy/dense snow one absolutely wants to have the board floating _on_ snow, in the fluffy Japan stuff your _in_ the snow anyway. I doupt that it's the aim to go longer to stay ontop. Too long might be hindring cos - at least where I was - trees were pretty dense. Something agile would have been great. My big turns big mtn board was bit bulky :laugh:

We haven't been lucky to get one of those bottomless deep days so I'm also in the dark what sort of board one needs for this. I've seen tiny guys with huge decks, but also with small boards. 
@SGboarder, you're located there, right? IIRC, @dreampow as well. Or @Mizu Kuma (where is that guy?????)


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## Parkerross (Nov 9, 2012)

RLCCM said:


> 5. Capita Spring Break - 165 thingy witthe hole in it - looks great, any ideas how it will actually ride when compared to say the hovercraft or Arbor?


I have many powder boards and ridden many and the capita spring break powder wolf 165 is by far the best powder boards i've ridden. It rips in the deep I rode in waist deep on monday and it rips on groomers too. Just make sure you have plenty of base down so you don't get caught on a root or log. Super fun board. Its gonna be hard to grab anything else on a pow day. That huge nose with 92mm of taper its unsinkable.

I've only ridden the hover craft out of the boards on the list you have. The springbreaks are way more lively and fun surfy. The hovercraft in my opinion is missing that fun factor kind of stale ride to me. But haven't ridden one since 2012 or so. I'd recommend any of the capita springbreak decks or the nitro quiver decks. I'd stay away from yes 420 or 20/20 I didn't like them they don't float like the Pow Wolf or tree hunter.

Also don't get last years powder hole to save money it doesn't have a sidecut which is useless on groomers.


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## Parkerross (Nov 9, 2012)

SGboarder said:


> Spring Break boards are one trick ponies. Great float for powder cruising but not for hard riding and suck in crud and chop.
> Dupraz not recommended for Japan and what you are describing.


not true, at all they blast through the crud and chop. And they ride hard pack fine unless crazy steep. Def not a one trick pony. 420 and 20/20 are the worst rides I've ever been on in chop and crud felt like i was riding bucking bronco.


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## Parkerross (Nov 9, 2012)

timmytard said:


> I think wrath nailed it.
> 
> A 183 quiver Cannon
> I just picked one up locally for someone and shipped it fuck did it ever look nice
> ...


I wouldn't take my cannon 183 to japan, too tight in the trees for 183 in my opinion. I'd take my Nitro Treehugger, Nitro Pow 154 or NUAT 163 










this is on the NUAT the 50mm of taper really floats it nice


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## Kenai (Dec 15, 2013)

SGboarder said:


> Dupraz not recommended for Japan and what you are describing.


This is important info for me as Japan is on my somewhat near term bucket list and my wife has her D1 and I have my very similar Prior. Why is a D1 not a good board for Japow?


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## Parkerross (Nov 9, 2012)

another board you should consider is the a Korua pencil, or Korua Stealth especially since you are in europe they are kinda made for both powder and euro carving. I have a Pencil on its way too me at the moment.


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## SGboarder (Jun 24, 2012)

Parkerross said:


> not true, at all they blast through the crud and chop. And they ride hard pack fine unless crazy steep. Def not a one trick pony. 420 and 20/20 are the worst rides I've ever been on in chop and crud felt like i was riding bucking bronco.


Agree to disagree then. IMO Spring Break boards do not even blast through a sheet of paper - just not built that way (which is also why they wear out so quick).
But they sure float nice (as anything with such a big nose, gradual rocker, and lots of taper should - not because of fake gimmicks like the powder hole).


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## Parkerross (Nov 9, 2012)

SGboarder said:


> Agree to disagree then. IMO Spring Break boards do not even blast through a sheet of paper - just not built that way (which is also why they wear out so quick).
> But they sure float nice (as anything with such a big nose, gradual rocker, and lots of taper should - not because of fake gimmicks like the powder hole).


Have you ridden many springbreak decks or owned any? I've ridden them in all kinds of conditions they handle it all well. Why do you say they wear out quickly? how so? Have you ridden the powder wolf?


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## Rogue (Nov 29, 2014)

Kenai said:


> This is important info for me as Japan is on my somewhat near term bucket list and my wife has her D1 and I have my very similar Prior. Why is a D1 not a good board for Japow?




You got a NS Swift why wouldn't you ride that there? 

@neni @mizu_kuma would tell you to rock the Swift! I've gotten a lot of pow days on it this year in the kind of fluff you're talking about, the kind that Hood rarely gets and it's amazing. Heavier stuff too, I never get stuck in the trees anymore because the big nose stays on top. That tapered tail just wants to make tight turns in trees, helps to keep the nose up, it flies on groomed runs, and it rails on turns. Just saying it has treated me very well so far and it's just the beginning of the season. Deeper and steeper days to come!


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## Snow Hound (Jul 21, 2012)

mizu kuma ain't telling nobody nothing recently. Where the fuck is that guy? We need some more exclamation marks up in here!!!!!


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## SGboarder (Jun 24, 2012)

Parkerross said:


> Have you ridden many springbreak decks or owned any? I've ridden them in all kinds of conditions they handle it all well. Why do you say they wear out quickly? how so? Have you ridden the powder wolf?


Have spent plenty of time on the Tree Hunter (meh), Powder Pill (more meh) and Slush Slasher (meeeh). All float in powder extremely well (although not uniquely better than other dedicated pow sticks) with nice surf-style snappiness - as they are meant to do. Not surprising given the design and the balsa construction.
Tree Hunter and Slush Slasher also make for nice carving in pristine mellow conditions (helps that they are so wide).

But they are not crud busting, chop charging or hard riding boards – we broke 3-4 decks over a 2 week period and most others were done after 20-30 days. Again, not a surprise: Neither meant/designed nor promoted to be anything else but fun quiver boards in the right conditions - which they certainly are.


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## SGboarder (Jun 24, 2012)

Kenai said:


> This is important info for me as Japan is on my somewhat near term bucket list and my wife has her D1 and I have my very similar Prior. Why is a D1 not a good board for Japow?


See neni's post: For a lot of Japan riding you want something quick/nimble/maneuverable esp. in the trees. The 5'5 Dupraz rides pretty short in some respects (contact length, sidecut) but super maneuverable it ain't. 

Also unrelated to japan, the OP was talking about chop and crud (to get to the powder) which are also not really strong areas of the D1.


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## timmytard (Mar 19, 2009)

SGboarder said:


> See neni's post: For a lot of Japan riding you want something quick/nimble/maneuverable esp. in the trees. The 5'5 Dupraz rides pretty short in some respects (contact length, sidecut) but super maneuverable it ain't.
> 
> Also unrelated to japan, the OP was talking about chop and crud (to get to the powder) which are also not really strong areas of the D1.


That's where I'd have to disagree with you it's fucking mowes down shit.

you can't just say Dupraz like it's a single board.
Cause it's not.

The standard dupraz that I had was way better in the powder and super nimble compared to the dupraz Plus that I have now

It's too stiff for me to bend around trees and weave in and out of super tight places it just won't do it.
whereas the standard one I had did.

The standard, at my weight, combined with my ability, was super nimble to me.

All that crud & shit chop, I could bend & twist that thing so it conformed to whatever I was riding over..

The D+ is completely different.
It feels NOTHING like the standard.
It's a Cadillac, it eats that shit, you just smash right through it.

Lightweights should be vary weary of the D+ imo


TT
I wish I still had my standard, I liked it way more.


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

Rogue said:


> You got a NS Swift why wouldn't you ride that there?
> 
> @neni @mizu_kuma would tell you to rock the Swift!


I'll being a screw driver and a Flag you can try


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

Kenai said:


> This is important info for me as Japan is on my somewhat near term bucket list and my wife has her D1 and I have my very similar Prior. Why is a D1 not a good board for Japow?


I wouldn't sweat this too much. May not be _optimal_ but... if you don't wanna buy a specific board, and you're otherwise comfy on your boards riding deep? Bring them.
SO was riding those dense trees with a Carbon Flag. Not a board known for being nimble. I had an oversized men's Flag. Also not the most agile combination. Guess what? We had fun 

If you want to extend the quiver? I'd contact @ETM and get one of his beauties.


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## htfu (Mar 18, 2015)

i'm around your weight, although about 5 inches taller. also love the pow and have been riding with that in mind most of the time ...

having been to japan at the beginning of 2016 i have a few points to consider :

- japan slopes, on average, a mostly pow board will be super fun
- doing the gates (technically offpiste, but super accessible for people not going for the full backcountry experience) at the various resorts (hirafu & co) having a nimble board seemed to be important
- where i went there were trees everywhere, not that many tree wells (surprisingly)
- didn't do any full backcountry so no idea, although some of the runs had some long hikes back out

that being said, i rode a 156 bataleon magic carpet ... it was amazingly fun (got a 159 this year as the only gripe with it was it was a tiny bit too short). this board was super fun on piste, but way prefer my riot 159w if i'm doing mostly charging/on piste.

have a great time in japan, the snow even on an off year is amazing


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

Kenai said:


> This is important info for me as Japan is on my somewhat near term bucket list and my wife has her D1 and I have my very similar Prior. Why is a D1 not a good board for Japow?


Don't sweat it.
The Fissile and D1 will be fine. They will be great actually.



neni said:


> Hmmmm...
> OP, I wouldn't base the size decision on ppls experience with totally different type of snow (sorry TT).
> 
> I've ridden in Japan too few days to dare a recommendation. What was striking is that snow is such a different animal from what we in the Alps have or also to the dense maritime Alaskan snow. It's like a cloud of downs you fly _through_ than snow you ride _on_. The snow in Colorado seemed similarly light/fluffy. In heavy/dense snow one absolutely wants to have the board floating _on_ snow, in the fluffy Japan stuff your _in_ the snow anyway. I doupt that it's the aim to go longer to stay ontop. Too long might be hindring cos - at least where I was - trees were pretty dense. Something agile would have been great. My big turns big mtn board was bit bulky :laugh:
> ...


Blower pow!

Rode that yesterday. No chop or bumps. You just pufffff! through. 
Rode that in interior BC as well.


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

F1EA said:


> Blower pow!
> 
> Rode that yesterday. No chop or bumps. You just pufffff! through.
> Rode that in interior BC as well.


Oh, we have blower powder as well here, on very cold days in February. Jappow is miles away from that. I took one step from the cattrack wanting to pee, and sunk up to my waist into that fluff. Bottomless. I had a fall on the back and frggn was _not_ able to get up anymoe cos no matter ho much I tried to push me up, the stuff gave way, like drift sand. Trying to bootpack a very short way up was a hour long odyssey crawling on belly, more swimming than walking. Very stange stuff


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

neni said:


> Oh, we have blower powder as well here, on very cold days in February. Jappow is miles away from that. I took one step from the cattrack wanting to pee, and sunk up to my waist into that fluff. Bottomless. I had a fall on the back and frggn was _not_ able to get up anymoe cos no matter ho much I tried to push me up, the stuff gave way, like drift sand. Trying to bootpack a very short way up was a hour long odyssey crawling on belly, more swimming than walking. Very stange stuff


haha
Well... Japow is a combination of: true blower AND bottomless.... 
When you have those two, that's (what you mentioned above) what happens.

Only had 56cm in 24hr yesterday over a packed base, temps around -12C and I was riding up to my knees even on steeper faces. Got stuck twice and took some serious huff and puffing to get up. Had it been say 90cm+ on top of an unconsolidated base....... would have needed a snorkel.


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## francium (Jan 12, 2013)

Yeah i'd disagree i've got 2 D1's and the 6'0+ rips through everything, i've ridden mine in tight european trees without an issue for a board of it's size it turns on a dime. Plus it'll rip on groomers, bust though crud and has more than enough float infact i don't think i could sink it..


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## RLCCM (Dec 29, 2016)

Hi again all - so I've been reading all this with great interest, thanks so much for the great response. I'll try to add my thoughts to as much as possible - 

- firstly I think the suggestion of 180cm board is overkill. Boards still function outsid their suggested weight range, but it would handle like HMS Ark Royal in europes tight trees or beat up slopes. Also, no idea where to get one here - they would be very rare, as they just don't suit europe at all. 

- Dupraz have strangely never quite appealed to me, lot's of posts about them here, and I have been told before they are great, but I think they are a do-it-all design initially made for carving (actually I know this as they had set up a stand in Verbier when Dupraz were still quite new). I could be wrong... 

- to SGBoarder - thanks for the recommendation, I'm inclined to agree and cross the Arbor Cosa Nostra off my list due to the full rocker system (that I am not used to). The West is of course a similar idea to the Hovercraft, but it's a bit stiffer, has a deeper sidecut, and is slightly wider at it's shoulder, only comes in 160 though. The shop tell me it's really good, 1 guy told me it's more fun than the HC, the other just preferred the stiffer flex for the added grip it gives.

- Flow Darwin and Korua Stealth - both actually look good! potentially adds another to the list, but anyone can compare them to the HC? No idea where o get the Korua, its sold out on the website.

- Very interesting debate on the Capita - it's exactly my worry, its a love/hate sort of thing. I might adore it... I might not. I definitely need something that still functions in imprefect conditions though, beaten up chunder etc... but how does it cmopare to the HC?

- HTFU, thats really good advice, glad to hear your experience. I'm actually going to several resorts in 10 days with fully guided off-piste and backcountry, hopefully a couple of days with ski-cats, so it should be epic! Relatively little on-piste I hope, as always, but interesting to hear that you ride such short boards!

So... what can I gleam from all this? firstly - it seems the consensus is I would be better off with the 164 rather than 160 if in Hovercraft guise? if so that would exclude the Ultracraft. Will the stiffness be that important even? The short tail will help it steer through trees but still with float... which sounds nice. Is the Hovercraft fun however? any finger pointing at it saying it's just not that fun to ride worries me, it's why I never bought a burton all-mountain board (sorry Burton owners) several years ago when I actually tested several boards, and went for a Rome instead (the rome's I tested were just more lively and fun to ride - though the test was a long time ago, and I'm a much better rider now!).

I'm even more curious about the Capita now, yes its gimmicky but could be fun! I want to spend more time comparing the West/Korua/Darwin/HC now.. of course function is extremely important but will any of them stand out above each other for any reason? 

One thing I do think is a gimmick however are many hybrid camber boards claiming to have rocker in the nose. Sorry to my Rome Anthem - it's one such of these boards, but compare the nose to my A-Frame (pure camber) there's just no real difference. The West and HC however, have rocker starting much further in and longer, which seems a good solution. 

I would be curious to buy a board there (Gentamsticks are meant to be great) but I'm doubtful that I shall get the time/chance to, ans will spend half the holiday testing boards...


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## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

neni said:


> Oh, we have blower powder as well here, on very cold days in February. Jappow is miles away from that. I took one step from the cattrack wanting to pee, and sunk up to my waist into that fluff. Bottomless. I had a fall on the back and frggn was _not_ able to get up anymoe cos no matter ho much I tried to push me up, the stuff gave way, like drift sand. Trying to bootpack a very short way up was a hour long odyssey crawling on belly, more swimming than walking. Very stange stuff





F1EA said:


> haha
> Well... Japow is a combination of: true blower AND bottomless....
> When you have those two, that's (what you mentioned above) what happens.
> 
> Only had 56cm in 24hr yesterday over a packed base, temps around -12C and I was riding up to my knees even on steeper faces. Got stuck twice and took some serious huff and puffing to get up. Had it been say 90cm+ on top of an unconsolidated base....... would have needed a snorkel.


This is why I think having too much stick is better than not enough. Being caught too short SUCKS!

But I never really liked riding trees in bottomless fluff...cause I don't ride agile enough to keep my ass from sinking unless its on fairly steep so I can get going again...swimming the low angle bottomless 

...If I want to swim and snorkel...I prefer warm waters of HI


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

wrathfuldeity said:


> This is why I think having too much stick is better than not enough. Being caught too short SUCKS!
> 
> But I never really liked riding trees in bottomless fluff...cause I don't ride agile enough to keep my ass from sinking unless its on fairly steep so I can get going again...swimming the low angle bottomless


You sink there anyway. I don't think that any surface would be big enough - and still decently turnable - to keep one _on top_. It's not the aim to get on top like in snow at ours where submarining equals to getting stuck. I've had a fairly big board for my weight and been riding half a meter _in_ that fluff. Doesn't matter, you don't get stuck because there's no friction, the down-like fluff just parts.

Dunno, I reckon everybody has his own definition of "blower power" for the lightest stuff which falls on _his_ region, ya know, the magic light roostertail stuff. Over here, ppl get excited and yell "blowe pow"... yeah, sure, super fun n light _compared_ to the rather heavy stuff usually, yeah, it's as light n fluffy as it gets here, but miles away from Japow. Sure, one can produce sweet long roostertails:








One submarines and gets stuck quickly at low angle due to the friction:








But board surfaces even at slow speed cos the stuff is still dense enough to carry even if it's thigh deep fresh:









In AK, we got sweet very deep days, the guys there were all "yeah! Blower pow day!", super fun neck deep roostertail pow, very light _for that region_ but again, quite dense to carry the same board high up on the surface with just the tail bit _in_ the snow:









Japan after fresh had been falling? Same board; I've never even seen even the boot rim  :








Man eating snow :laugh: A tip may have appeared shortly when kicking the tail at the end of a turn:








But as mentioned, being deep in the snow is a non-issue as it won't make you stuck; it just billows around your legs without breaking. Wonderful stuff. Would love to ride that sort of snow once in wide open steep terrain. In doubt that it would hold there, tho :dry:


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

wrathfuldeity said:


> This is why I think having too much stick is better than not enough. Being caught too short SUCKS!
> 
> But I never really liked riding trees in bottomless fluff...cause I don't ride agile enough to keep my ass from sinking unless its on fairly steep so I can get going again...swimming the low angle bottomless
> 
> ...If I want to swim and snorkel...I prefer warm waters of HI


Yeah you definitely would rather have a little too much board than too little. 
A little too much board you can solve... too little and you have almost no options.


Also, no area is as deep, dry snow and low traffic as Japan: Consistently cold. Lots of snow. Low traffic.

Here we get lots of snow, but normally heavy; and crowded as fuck..... this always makes a packed base under whatever snowfall you got. This week has been super cold. Today was -19C at peak chair (forgot what it was with windchill). 
When you get a typical coastal BC dump, at these temps... it rocks. But you dont have the same depth..... it's always consolidated below your ~24hr dump.

You can't beat coastal climates (like Japan) for 24hr precip (ie intensity)

Interior.... super dry and uncrowded, but not as much 24hr snowrates as the coast. But still, even on just a 20cm day, I was riding to my knees like neni said. And no bumpy bumps. Just fluff.

Japan: dry snow, heavy 24hr snowfalls, over an unpacked base. 
Bottom line.... I need to go there.


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## Phedder (Sep 13, 2014)

I had a swimming out experience at Sunshine 2 days ago. There's some great flat spots off the sides of the runs that no one ventures into...I often do. Bomb the groomers, carry enough speed, and it's all golden. After some very consistent, super dry, super cold snowfall, totally untouched off the sides of those runs, I hit my usual line bombing the groomer to line up for some nice powder turns before cruising back out to the lift. Except I only got half as far as I usually do, while leaving a ditch behind me twice as deep as I usually do. I literally had to swim out on my board, I tried walkiing/crawling out and I was over waist deep, not a nice feeling when you've got 40-50m to travel. Took me a at least 7-8 minutes of struggling and a lot of sweating to get back onto something even remotely solid. 

Only other time I've experienced powder that light was a freak storm we got back in NZ that dumped 45cm (very unusual) unfortunately I was working on 80's day, one of our busiest in the season. Finally got out around 2pm and went to find something untracked which was no where near steep enough to keep up momentum. Here's the vid, 200lb on a 162 Flight Attendant literally set all the way back. Had zero tail, and you don't see my board once in this clip.


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

hahaha I need an 80s outfit.


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## Phedder (Sep 13, 2014)

We have a giant 80s dress up closet at one of the old homesteads, I had to pull rank to make sure I got my mullet wig again, that was the 3rd year running hah. Looking forward to the 4th in August!


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## timmytard (Mar 19, 2009)

You need this bad mother fucker right here.

215cm:surprise:


TT


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## Clayton Bigsby (Oct 23, 2012)

A couple weeks back I went to EVO in Seattle and seen the Korua 163 stealth, I'd never heard of the brand but after taking a really close look at it checking the flex pattern, sidecut, camber, price $540 and overall build (not to mention being Swiss built), if I hadn't already bought the Landlord I would have pick it up.


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

It's exactly that... .you ride THROUGH it 

But in this case, too bad we had to share those puny 30cms with 33,000+ suckaz.


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## Seppuccu (Dec 4, 2012)

Great discussion!

My spontaneous reaction is that a big hole in the tail of the board is about the last thing you want when you're riding in a place where there are birch trees and bushes lurking at an unknown depth beneath you - but what do I know?

The Jones homepage places you firmly at the upper end of the Hovercraft 164, and like 15 kgs over the top recommended weight of the 160 - but then again some people just prefer riding a (relatively speaking) smaller board and you seem to be one of them. In any case you could check out their sizing guidelines.

Not sure if anyone else here owns a Hovercraft. I haven't ridden my (2014) 160 yet, but I'm planning to try it out a bit in non-optimal conditions (corduroy, perhaps 5 cm of fluff if we're lucky) this weekend and I can get back to you on the fun part. Two disclaimers on that: 1) I'm way less experienced than you, and 2) it's an old model and doesn't have the hull of the new one.

Also: What kind of Japow are we talking about? Fluffy Hokkaido pow or heavier Honshu pow?


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## RLCCM (Dec 29, 2016)

Neni- is that a hovercraft in the pictures? How do you find it? What size are you riding?

Anticrobotic - I'd be very interested to hear how you get on with your hovercraft this weekend. I'm sure that eh character of the board has remained largely similar over the years, Jones seem to like making marginal tweaks rather than redesigning boards from the ground up. Somehow also totally missed the Jones sizing guide, which seems to be saying go 160cm... unless you are seriously big then 164... which leaves me at the same dilemma! 

Will be Hokkaido Fluffy stuff!! Though obviously future use after that is not!


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

RLCCM said:


> Neni- is that a hovercraft in the pictures? How do you find it? What size are you riding?


Naw, it's a Jones Flagship, on those pics men's 154 or women's 156 (@~115lbs); as I'm a one quiver freeride girl, the Hovy doesn't fit my bill. I've only trued men's Hovy on groomers and it's not my cup of tea. Maybe the women's would not feel like a boat as much, but I never felt the urge to steer away from my known n loved Flags 

BTW: while in '13 till '16 they haven't chaged tremendously, the this year's model does ride differently, probably mostly due to the spoon (you'll find details in the women's boards review section). IIRC, the Hovy comes with spoon as well.


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## deagol (Mar 26, 2014)

On the topic of pow vs "blower pow", I had a day on very low angle slopes a few weeks ago. the temps were hovering around zero degrees Fahrenheit all day and it was hard on the lungs/throat to breath that air in while exerting on the climbs. But the snow was some of the most "blower" I have ever experienced. It matches what I imagine neni was describing in Japan, but it's hard to know for sure. The snow just sort of blew around like fine dust..

We could not shoot up big rooster tails here because it wasn't steep enough to get speed for that, but the snow was super light.


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

deagol said:


> On the topic of pow vs "blower pow", I had a day on very low angle slopes a few weeks ago. the temps were hovering around zero degrees Fahrenheit all day and it was hard on the lungs/throat to breath that air in while exerting on the climbs. But the snow was some of the most "blower" I have ever experienced. It matches what I imagine neni was describing in Japan, but it's hard to know for sure. The snow just sort of blew around like fine dust..
> 
> We could not shoot up big rooster tails here because it wasn't steep enough to get speed for that, but the snow was super light.


Sweet!
Yeah it's a rare beast, especially here in the PSW. It's awesome even when you get 30-60cm like that; I can't imagine how mind blowing would be a full base depth made out of such fluff..........

Here's a little japanese dude ripping a 6'3" Dupraz taller than him. And it wasn't even "that" deep...





Cant get enough of this one:





Ohhh this one is a bit deeper


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## jjj604 (Dec 16, 2015)

nice pow day shots in this thread!

@op... where in hokkaido are you heading to and what kind of riding are you planning to do there? i was there for two months in 2016 during the storm season and the most popular boards i saw foreigners on were the jones', especially in niseko (lots and lots of hovercrafts). having said that, many of the locals (and mostly outside of foreigner-driven niseko) tended to ride powsticks with much more pronounced shapes and you could tell they were having MUCH more fun in the trees  scoopier noses, bigger taper & near nonexistent tails. a lot have similar shapes to the kreuger but with less rocker. i love all the capita spring break shapes but with the amount of time spent in the woods there, i think that hole in the powder wolf will latch onto something sooner than later.

blower pow there is indeed, true blower pow. i spent everyday dealing with pow blasting through my goggle vents which was super frustrating had it not been so fun lol. i've had 60+cm days in whistler with temps around -15-20 and it's not even close to japow quality... i'm stoked AND jealous that you're going!. even with 20cm overnight, you'll likely be up to your thighs (if not deeper) on turns. if you're going to be there in feb when the dumps are coming, i think a 160 at 240lbs is on the small side and you'll likely get buried. for reference, i was setback a tad on a 156cm fish @ 145lbs. i would stick with camrock/s-rocker as well which will be much more useful once you bring it home.


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## RLCCM (Dec 29, 2016)

jjj604 said:


> nice pow day shots in this thread!
> 
> @op... where in hokkaido are you heading to and what kind of riding are you planning to do there? i was there for two months in 2016 during the storm season and the most popular boards i saw foreigners on were the jones', especially in niseko (lots and lots of hovercrafts). having said that, many of the locals (and mostly outside of foreigner-driven niseko) tended to ride powsticks with much more pronounced shapes and you could tell they were having MUCH more fun in the trees  scoopier noses, bigger taper & near nonexistent tails. a lot have similar shapes to the kreuger but with less rocker. i love all the capita spring break shapes but with the amount of time spent in the woods there, i think that hole in the powder wolf will latch onto something sooner than later.
> 
> blower pow there is indeed, true blower pow. i spent everyday dealing with pow blasting through my goggle vents which was super frustrating had it not been so fun lol. i've had 60+cm days in whistler with temps around -15-20 and it's not even close to japow quality... i'm stoked AND jealous that you're going!. even with 20cm overnight, you'll likely be up to your thighs (if not deeper) on turns. if you're going to be there in feb when the dumps are coming, i think a 160 at 240lbs is on the small side and you'll likely get buried. for reference, i was setback a tad on a 156cm fish @ 145lbs. i would stick with camrock/s-rocker as well which will be much more useful once you bring it home.





jjj604 said:


> Ok so... (not trying to create jealousy here but I'm super excited!) it's actually a Hokkaido Freeride Road Trip starting around the city of Asahikawa to visit nearby spots as Kamui, Asahidaki and Teine - then a transfer to the Niseko area to pick the best spots there! All fully guided, and will be doing 1-2 days of Cat-boarding too. Basically playing powder hounds!
> 
> So if I was to go Hovercraft then worth upsizing to the 164 by the sound of it! I'm still open to other shapes too, but I don't want to get a board that is useless to me in Europe - whatever I get has to be able to deal with cut up snow and bumps and worse conduitions that are found in Europe, as here you a) rarely get more than knee/thigh deep pow and b) it gets tracked out before you can even start half the time! And many of the larger surf style pow boards I think likely would be!


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## jjj604 (Dec 16, 2015)

sweet! asahidake with a guide is how you wanna do it! sounds like you have an amazing trip coming up. if you can squeeze in a day at rusutsu since you're around the niseko area, i highly recommend it. teine also surprised me; an amazing mountain with some steeps that i'm sure your guides will treat you to.

i don't know much about the european terrain but what i will add is that when i looked for a powstick, i was really worried about how it would hold up on groomers and traversing when i came home but i've been pleasantly surprised at how well i can hold an edge and carve. when you watch the locals ride their spoon noses in waist deep AND lay down euro carves, it makes you realize that boards are capable of a lot more than we give them credit for (ie: labeling them as one-trick ponies). have a sick trip!


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## RLCCM (Dec 29, 2016)

Yeah Rusutsu is also in the itinerary, I dare say we will not spend that much time in Niseko itself, but go to the other neighbouring resorts, as far as the guides see fit depending on conditions! 

jjj - actually I think you've nailed the point a bit - and though I've not changed my mind about anything I am going to re-prioritise slightly with my selection! 

Just as before, taking into account the future uses of the board in europe, but really thinking through that more fully. To explain if not familiar to Alps snow, its relatively wetter/heavier usually, but the mountains can be steep too. Thigh deep pow is rare, I've probably had waiste-ish deep once. ANY powder stash that exists gets ridden out in minutes, as all resorts are so busy, so true fresh tracks are a distinct rarity or just really short! Also the pow will settle on top of beaten up bumpy pistes/on top of lesser mogul'd (or just totally mogul'd) side-country. That means underneath the fresh stuff you still have to cope with usually still pretty bumpy terrain. Then for 75%+ of the day you will be re-using lines or finding new less heavily ridden lines of chop. 

That's why I need something that is a pure pow board but also must ride a bit of crud and most importantly the bumps and chop really, really well! Carving ability after that I think is a bit secondary, as actually thinking about it I nearly always avoid the piste, and certainly don't touch them enough to really matter as long as the board will function ok on it! Afterall, when there is not really much in the way of deep fresh pow, I still have an A-frame to carve with and pile down the mountain on.

This is meant to be a quiver board, and not my daily-rider (which will still be the A-frame). I've been looking way too much at the all-round qualities of these boards so far. This fact is really is making me reconsider the Capita Spring break offerings of various shapes, and possibly some slightly more pointy pow boards - I don't care if they aren't the best on-piste - provided they can deal with bumps! In that though a battleship 170+ swallowtail is still not ideal (great for first 2 runs, crap for the rest of the day). 

Why do I say this? I yesterday I had a mostly boring piste-day to get my legs working whilst there is a lack of snow (riding the Rome 159 i haven't pickup up for a couple of seasons now as a comparison), and realised I haven't spent that much time truly on-piste in years, no do I enjoy it all that much. Piste's here are hugely over-used and rubbish anyway - my cousin (who was sued to BC pistes) never understood what I meant about bumps on piste (we even had firey arguments about it!) until he rode with me in Chamonix! 

I also went to a shop to look at boards and discuss what they had. The shop ower pushed at me the Korua Trenchdigger 165 he had in stock telling me how great a powder board it is but also carves perfectly. He seemed to love Korua, but actually I went home after and looked it up only to find it's truly a Carving board (that is decent for pow too). He should have suggested the Stealth or Pencil, except of course he didn't have those in stock! But alas there is the problem with these dodgy french-swiss shops in resorts around here, you can rarely trust a word they say as they rarely put the customer first. It's a common problem here - though I can test a few of the boards they have there if I return next week. But he's angered me enough that I probably won't go back! 

So I think I'm going to spend a bit more time looking at other shapes. Certainly the Capita series have bumped up my list a couple of notches, as has the Korua Pencil particularly, and to some extent the Stealth. Hovercraft and West still on the list... should I reconsider the Arbor cosa Nostra and its rocker!? probably not in that I'v never riddenone, but maybe it will be exactly that different board I am looking for... 

What a life!


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## RLCCM (Dec 29, 2016)

jjj604 said:


> i don't know much about the european terrain but what i will add is that when i looked for a powstick, i was really worried about how it would hold up on groomers and traversing when i came home but i've been pleasantly surprised at how well i can hold an edge and carve.


Out of curiosity, which pow-stick(s) did you get? or test? I'd be curious to hear your feedback on something specific.


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## jjj604 (Dec 16, 2015)

RLCCM said:


> Out of curiosity, which pow-stick(s) did you get? or test? I'd be curious to hear your feedback on something specific.


i ended up with a 156cm fish even though i hadn't ridden it BUT a few days prior to getting that, i picked up a bataleon cameltoe. i was super excited to take that to japan with me because i think it would've suited the terrain and my riding style perfectly but i found a deal that i couldn't pass up on the fish and the rest is history. i don't think the cameltoe would've performed as well on-piste however i do feel like it would've been more of a charging board that would've been impossible to sink with a ton of speed to boot. as is, the fish is super-duper fun (and i'm a burton hater) in the trees and for fast slashy/surfy turns which is how i like to ride.

as for how many boards i was thinking about purchasing... yeesh, i get kinda sick just thinking about it. the spring breaks, cosa nostra, shreddy kreuger, burton fishcuit, cloudspitter & skipjack, gentemsticks, hovercraft, lib tech birdman swallowtail, prior powstick, endeavor archetype, dupraz 5'5", k2 coolbean... among others. price point was a huge factor for me though and i had only had 2 weeks to find something so with more time i probably would've ended up with something different. i ruled out primarily rocker boards since i wanted more response, i wanted something shorter for tight tree turns, decent taper (>20mm) for float, not worried about switch capabilities and wanted something lively (which ruled out the hovercraft for me). being in canada, our selection of boards locally after xmas is extremely limited so i had to go with what was available. as for the koruas... i love the apollo and pencil shapes and the fact that all the boards offer the same 31mm of taper which makes it slightly easier to decide between them. while the pencil is a 164, they actually rate it for only up to a 90kg rider so you might want to inquire about that. if you want to keep the pow-friendly shape, maybe lean towards something slightly stiffer to get you through the bumps? i dunno, just thinking out loud...

while i was in rusutsu though, one board caught my eye. i saw it up close at the lodge and came across it one more time in a store in asahikawa and i've been dreaming about it for nearly a year. japan grabs actually did a review on it a few months back and if i make it back over there, without question i'll be plunking down my useless canadian dollars in exchange for the tj brand napoleon fish: TJ Brand Napoleon Fish Review - Japan Grabs

i don't know how accessible japan is for you and how frequent of a trip it will be going forward but my justification to get a powstick was that i didn't know when i would be back there and if i was going to ride japow, i'm going to make the most of it and smile as big as i can smile. in the end, the board can always be sold if it really doesn't agree with your home terrain (and a nice board should hold it's value relatively well). on that note... rusutsu or bust!:laugh2:


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

jjj604 said:


> nice pow day shots in this thread!
> 
> @op... where in hokkaido are you heading to and what kind of riding are you planning to do there? i was there for two months in 2016 during the storm season and the most popular boards i saw foreigners on were the jones', especially in niseko (lots and lots of hovercrafts). having said that, many of the locals (and mostly outside of foreigner-driven niseko) tended to ride powsticks with much more pronounced shapes and you could tell they were having MUCH more fun in the trees  scoopier noses, bigger taper & near nonexistent tails. a lot have similar shapes to the kreuger but with less rocker. i love all the capita spring break shapes but with the amount of time spent in the woods there, i think that hole in the powder wolf will latch onto something sooner than later.
> 
> blower pow there is indeed, true blower pow. i spent everyday dealing with pow blasting through my goggle vents which was super frustrating had it not been so fun lol. i've had 60+cm days in whistler with temps around -15-20 and it's not even close to japow quality... i'm stoked AND jealous that you're going!. even with 20cm overnight, you'll likely be up to your thighs (if not deeper) on turns. if you're going to be there in feb when the dumps are coming, i think a 160 at 240lbs is on the small side and you'll likely get buried. for reference, i was setback a tad on a 156cm fish @ 145lbs. i would stick with camrock/s-rocker as well which will be much more useful once you bring it home.


Yeah rode Whis today with ~15 cm fresh and temps steady below -10C
Not the same snow we had last week. Still Super fun, but it was the typical heavy coast pow. Last week was a bit of a freak thing.


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## MMSlasher (Mar 18, 2016)

jjj604 said:


> wanted something lively (which ruled out the hovercraft for me)


Why do you think the Hovercraft isn't lively? The few people I have talked to said it was a great ride.


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## jjj604 (Dec 16, 2015)

MMSlasher said:


> Why do you think the Hovercraft isn't lively? The few people I have talked to said it was a great ride.


mostly based off taper, sidecut and stiffness in comparison. it just didn't seem like a match for my riding style.
don't get me wrong, i'm not saying that the hovercraft isn't a good board (because it clearly is, that's why so many people have 'em!). it floats like crazy but the shape just didn't do it for me


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

jjj604 said:


> mostly based off taper, sidecut and stiffness in comparison. it just didn't seem like a match for my riding style.
> don't get me wrong, i'm not saying that the hovercraft isn't a good board (because it clearly is, that's why so many people have 'em!). it floats like crazy but the shape just didn't do it for me


This ^

It's still going to float like crazy and will be fun. But there's lots of other boards with different personality.

It does sound like the board the Op is looking for based on Post1. Personally, i'm with jjj as well.

When I go to Japan i'll bring the Fish and the Dupraz. Or a 163 Landlord which I'll probably get as a split... but i'm lighter than op.


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## RLCCM (Dec 29, 2016)

Yet the hovercraft does seem rather the "safe" option doesn't it! 

In the back of my mind I'm almost even rethinking the Arbor... though probably camber between the feet is still teh way to go, and certainly looking closer at the Capita's after my previous post.


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

RLCCM said:


> Yet the hovercraft does seem rather the "safe" option doesn't it!
> 
> In the back of my mind I'm almost even rethinking the Arbor... though probably camber between the feet is still teh way to go, and certainly looking closer at the Capita's after my previous post.


It is A safe option. There is no "the"


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## RLCCM (Dec 29, 2016)

By a bit of chance (or pure luck!?) I've managed to rent a jones hovercraft 156 from a local(ish) shop for tomorrow, which happens to be anticipated to be a big pow day here! Yes it's certainly smaller than I want, but will hopefully give me a good clue as to how these things ride - I'll report back how it turns out, though first thing i noticed (other than its a short-arse) isthe nose is a little wiuder than my 162 A-frame still!


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## RLCCM (Dec 29, 2016)

So, rode a 156 Hovercraft today for a test, thought I would repor what I found... was a powder day in the alps, not all that deep as I had hoped but still a decent chance to test smoething like this.

So first thing to state, was that it reacted perfectly predictably in all situations I put it in, and I found it easy to ride - nothing terribly unexpected here. I didn't really notice much or any difference with the magnatraction, edge hold was fine, the only time I noticed it was one time leaning theboard over on the piste and it bit somewhat suddenly and unexpectedly. 

Next there was the float - bearing in mind this was a 156, whcih should be too small for me, and particularly the weight range - it still floated really well considering, though on the whole the pow was not deep today. Better than I had expected, and possibly slightly better even than my A-Frame 162! Also sitting on that stubby tail is great to pivot around, and once I got used to riding after a few runs, got less and less back-leg-ache.

The stubby tail also helped in terms of handling the chop and bumps nicely, in essence allowing me to sit on it and keep the nose in the air whilst plowing over all. The flex of the board was not too soft (though one could argue it could have been slightly more responsive), but I didn't need it to be a much firmer, though I'm sure its feel is affected by the shorter size in this case. 

When the snow got harder I did fnd it clattered a bit over the bumps, the A-frame feels it has a bit more damping perhaps in this situation, despite being the stiffer board. And that surprised me. I perhaps the feel was due to the length? I'm used to haveing a bit more board underneath me. The width of it made it slower edge to edge than the A-frame, a touch sluggish if picking hairs, but overall I found it's on-piste performance to be just fine - and I don't need it to be better. I did struggle a little to get it into a proper arcing carve especially compared to the A-frame, but I'm not used to the deeper sidecut it has either. 

My overall opinion would be to give it 8/10. I enjoyed the ride and found it started coming to life when the pow got deeper, and I enjoyed riding it, but nor did it wow me (though no reason it should mind you!). It was fine on-piste, and great off, entirely predictable in handling, dependable, and nicely manouverable, made much off-piste riding easier in some respects. That said, if nitpicking, I would say the board lacked a touch of excitement (though to be fair, when I did hit a fresh patch, I still whoop'd and giggled like a child!). I also would need to take into account the size. I'm not entirely sure if a 160 or 164 would suit better... perhaps the 160 so as not to get too utterly massive! I'm veering in that durection. 

I'll also give it some better consideration if this si the board for me, though my instant reaction is not to instantly jump at it.


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## Seppuccu (Dec 4, 2012)

Cool, you should put this up in the Reviews section of this forum too.

I know I promised to get back to you about what I thought about the board myself, but I just couldn't motivate using the Hovercraft instead of the Team GW given the conditions (snow and other things) of that weekend. With any luck I'll be able to take out for a little spin at some point during the next two weeks or so.

Spontaneously, if you find the 156 slightly sluggish, you might want to pick the 160 (+4 mm waist) over the 164 (+8 mm waist). Maybe. But as always, I'm probably just talking out of my arse.


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

He basically described exactly what the Hovercraft and its personality would be like.
A long effective edge, long sidecut radius, stiff flex, camber deck with a bamboo topsheet.

It sounded like that's what he wanted based on his Post 1. But then the last post sort of says he's probably looking for something else.


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## RLCCM (Dec 29, 2016)

Yes to be fair, there were no surprises at all in how it rode, it did pretty much exactly what it said on the tin! It is indeed a very close fit for what I am trying to achieve particularly in Europe, and the test was a good idea to get an idea how the differences in board design will act. Particularly I learned here the benefit of a short stubby tail! 

So really any negatives are small, perhaps the simple fact that the Jones rode so exactly as I thought it would is why I'm not instantly jumping for one, because it didn't instantly blow me away! but I would be keen, now studying the design, if anything else will do similarly, but with marginally more excitement too! to get that 9/10 or 10/10 score!


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

RLCCM said:


> Yes to be fair, there were no surprises at all in how it rode, it did pretty much exactly what it said on the tin! It is indeed a very close fit for what I am trying to achieve particularly in Europe, and the test was a good idea to get an idea how the differences in board design will act. Particularly I learned here the benefit of a short stubby tail!
> 
> So really any negatives are small, perhaps the simple fact that the Jones rode so exactly as I thought it would is why I'm not instantly jumping for one, because it didn't instantly blow me away! but I would be keen, now studying the design, if anything else will do similarly, but with marginally more excitement too! to get that 9/10 or 10/10 score!


Yeah. I think you'll be fine either way (Hovercraft or something else).... but that little extra bit is probably down to specific preference and how accurate are you with what you actually want from the board.

If a Hovercraft.... for real pow and going fast and steep. Definitely the 160 is a better choice for you. It will feel more boring while going slow than the shorter one..... but you will definitely appreciate it when you need it.

Personally..... I'd rather get a 163 Landlord instead. Or a Flow Darwin, Gate Keeper, Ride Alter Ego, Endeavor Archetype, etc.


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## RLCCM (Dec 29, 2016)

I've seen a cheap 2016 Flow Darwin online, but other than a few mentions in posts, I've seen very little in the way of reviews to tell how it actually will ride. At the moment, if I go for a 160 though, the West Six Carro is starting tobe more appealing again, similar to the HC but slightly different (and preferred by the th guys in my local shop).


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

RLCCM said:


> I've seen a cheap 2016 Flow Darwin online, but other than a few mentions in posts, I've seen very little in the way of reviews to tell how it actually will ride. At the moment, if I go for a 160 though, the West Six Carro is starting tobe more appealing again, similar to the HC but slightly different (and preferred by the th guys in my local shop).


Reviews mean very little.

A friend of mine has a Darwin. Great board and great price. He'll bring it around next month, so i'll have a better idea how it rides in a few weeks. He tells me he likes it but it was his 1st pow stick so of course he'll like it in pow. But I havent seen it in action yet.

Basically, a mid wide swallow tail with rocker nose to camber. Kind of like a Fish but more camber and a longer sidecut. So it should feel more steady at faster speeds and over bumps.

Landlord is short tail, lots of seback and taper with rocker nose then full camber to the back. Longer sidecut and more edge than a Fish. Also a bit narrower. It's closer to a normal board.... but LOTS of pop, very agile and lots of float. Great sidecut and edge length, but VERY directional. And not as stable as something like a Hovercraft. But far more fun 

Gatekeeper similar to a Flight Attendant but more aggressive, so closer to what you're looking for. Without being plankey like a Hovercraft. Never tried it, so just going off the basic profile/description etc. This will def feel closer to the Hovercraft than the Landlord.

Then Endeavor Archetype and Ride Alter Ego are kinda similar to the Flow Darwin..... with a few tweaks. Tried and Alrer Ego once, but not in pow. I would really like to try one on a solid day. Archetype is mid wide as well.

There's tons more cool shapes and pow slashing goodies out there. So i think, just pick one that sounds cool and try to stick close to center of weight recommendation. And when in doubt, get the bigger size if you want to float and go fast.


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## Seppuccu (Dec 4, 2012)

Next up: the Darwin?  Or any other of these 5?


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

Anticrobotic said:


> Next up: the Darwin?  Or any other of these 5?


Pretty much. 

I would have said get the Branch Manager but it's less "freeride" oriented than Hovercraft or Landlord (ie small sidecut radius and effective edge)...... also, biggest size (159) is probably too small for someone over 90kg. So Gate Keeper seems more appropriate for someone considering a Hovercraft.

Nivek has probably tried a Darwin.


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## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

F1EA said:


> Nivek has probably tried a Darwin.


Owned a 57 and a 53. And I'm picking up me Ego today.


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## RLCCM (Dec 29, 2016)

How did you like the Darwin Nivek? Was it fun and exciting? easy to manouver? how did it handle the chop and bumps? The Darwin is now high on my list with the cheap deal I've seen - and I'm starting to like the look of the shape - short tail to stand and a surfier design than the HC. 

- I just gave back the Hovercraft I rented for the weekend (with added rock sized hole that had torn right through the base into the core... - oops!) and interestingly the shop owner also somewhat agreed with me on it, saying it's a great board, but that he doesn't love it himself. He loved the Capita Spring break 161 Treehunter... says I should get one.. in my broken french (and his broken english) he described it as a board that just makes you feel ilke you can do anything! 

The West Six Carro (he's ridden one once, as he also stocks West) he says would be quite similar in riding to the HC, though I have a slightly better feeling about it. 

He also loved the K2 coolbean, but it would be way too small for me. As for the others on the Angryboarder top 5, unfortunately I've no idea where to get a Venture, and the Arbor being a full rocker wouldn't suit me as well I think (which is a shame as otherwise I wouldn't hesitate on it).


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## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

Cool Bean isn't too small. Trust me.

I prefered the Darwin to the Hover. The Hover is a freeride board, the Darwin is a pow deck. A little more relaxed flex and personality with equal float. Rips a pipe too.


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

Nivek said:


> Cool Bean isn't too small. Trust me.
> 
> I prefered the Darwin to the Hover. The Hover is a freeride board, the Darwin is a pow deck. A little more relaxed flex and personality with equal float. Rips a pipe too.


Yeah that sounds good. (The Darwin) would be sort of somewhere in-between a Fish and a Hovercraft.

Setback, taper, width, and tail style really close to a Fish;
But more camber, a bit longer sidecut and stiffer than the Fish.
Which is... a pretty good all around mix.


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## RLCCM (Dec 29, 2016)

I have to admit I had previously glossed over the Darwin a bit, but having now ridden a HC, and looking more closely at the Darwin, I'm starting to really like this potential shape, as you say, looks somewhere between the Fish and Hovercraft, and this is meant to be my pow specific quiver board so that's a good thing. Have been hunting around for comments on it and all have been very good indeed that I've read. It's also marginally the cheapest - though the utterly ridiculously cheap deal I saw has gone, it still works out around $430 for a 2016 (I assume there is no difference between the 2016 and 2017 - I hope not because it's both cheaper and looks better to my eyes!), which is a bit less than a Jones or the West ($500-600), not that price is my main concern at the moment.

Though I think it will be possible to pick up a Capita Treehunter 161, it will not be as easy to find. Right now the Darwin and Treehunter are my favourites, with the West in third. Korua Pencil or Puzzle would still be a nice options too.


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## RLCCM (Dec 29, 2016)

So with no sign of any fresh snow coming here and just 2 weeks to go before I am off to Japan, I've taken the plunge and ordered myself a 2016 Darwin 162 which had a reasonable offer on it. I didn't want to risk this offer disappearing (an even cheaper offer already had disappeared) and also risk any failure of delivery before the trip. 

I figured anyway that though I could maybe go and test boards this weekend - and I may find a West (which my sources tell me is very much the hovercraft clone in handling too) and another Hovercraft to test, or even with luck find a Capita or Korua... but there won't be any fresh snow to test them with, just hardpack piste.. and that somewhat defies the point! 

Hopefully it will live up to the job it will soon be employed in doing.... thanks all for the help and discussion, I'll try to give the Darwin a review once it arrives/have a chance to ride it/have a chance to ride it in pow (thats probably when I'm back from Japan!)!


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## Seppuccu (Dec 4, 2012)

RLCCM said:


> So with no sign of any fresh snow coming here and just 2 weeks to go before I am off to Japan, I've taken the plunge and ordered myself a 2016 Darwin 162 which had a reasonable offer on it. I didn't want to risk this offer disappearing (an even cheaper offer already had disappeared) and also risk any failure of delivery before the trip.
> 
> I figured anyway that though I could maybe go and test boards this weekend - and I may find a West (which my sources tell me is very much the hovercraft clone in handling too) and another Hovercraft to test, or even with luck find a Capita or Korua... but there won't be any fresh snow to test them with, just hardpack piste.. and that somewhat defies the point!
> 
> Hopefully it will live up to the job it will soon be employed in doing.... thanks all for the help and discussion, I'll try to give the Darwin a review once it arrives/have a chance to ride it/have a chance to ride it in pow (thats probably when I'm back from Japan!)!


Sounds sweet dude, looking forward to it. Hope you'll enjoy Japan - it's easy to.


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