# Rear Quad Pain



## slyder

Have you taken the time to actually try moving your bindings to duck or playing with your binding angles sometime in those 3 years of riding or have you suffered this whole time. 

I'm Goofy and duck and ride 15/15 this is a little more aggressive but my natural foot stance is fairly Out-Toed meaning my feet don't point straight. 

It took me many tries at different angles over a fairly long time to figure out what worked best. 

Do you have any video of yourself, maybe you are riding heavy in the seat and you nor your friends have noticed it. Just because they can ride very well, if that is the case, doesn't mean they can pinpoint this little body movements.

Something is not right either with your setup or your body as you already know. Riding down half a run and stopping from pain isn't right


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## DaryleTN

Wow.. Thank for the response already..

I'm a moron and have actually been suffering this whole time.. I chalked it up to being out of shape (for boarding) , inexperience, etc.. but now 3yrs in I'm thinking something else is going on. Like I said with my location 3yrs of boarding has averaged out to like 12 trips..

I'm supposed to go on my 2nd trip of year tomorrow and will get a buddy to video tape me.. 

I was going to start out tomorrow with my bindings at +6/-6 or +9/-9.. Does this sound like a good place to start?

One issue I keep having and this could be a lot of the problem is I have a bad habit of using my back leg as a "rudder" to stear and not my front. I can't seem to break this habit no matter how hard I try.

I don't know if this matter or not.. but I started out on a used Morrow board that was normal camber.. Mid last year I bought (at the advise of the guy at the local ski center) my 1st new board which is a Burton Blunt V-Rocker.. He said all the normal stuff "great board, easy to ride" etc... but upon switching to this board my leg issue seemed to get worse. Make any sense ??? 

Thanks again for the help!!!


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## speedjason

try a -+ set up. adjust the rear foot to neg angle. its all about experimenting. take a portable screw driver with you so you can adjust on the go.
rear quad or hamstring, is the muscle for bending knees (hamstring curls), are you doing a lot of lifting the rear board up and down when switching edges?
also what about your stance? too wide? too narrow? since you have both binding at positive angles I would imagine you are using a lot of hamstring on toe edge?


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## snowklinger




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## speedjason

snowklinger said:


>


upperbody for zhe ladiez.
I have the opposite problem. my legs are stronger than my upper. I cant bench for shit but I can squat pretty good.


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## DaryleTN

I plan on working with the bindings all day tomorrow.. As far as lifting the back of the board I honestly don't know. If I am I don't realize it.. Another reason a video might be usefull. Hopefully I can identify the multitude of things I'm going wrong lol... I really hope duck helps. Then hopefully I can start working on riding switch. Then if my uphill leg still hurts I KNOW I'm doing something wrong...


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## DaryleTN

I can bench 350 but squad 150... talk about out of balance!!!! More proof that I need to work on lower body more!

On toeside my hamstrings do pretty good. Heelside my rear quad is DYING!!! I purpose set up my run down a slope to allow me the most toe side (if that makes any sense) because heel side kills my rear quad so bad..

But no exageration.. I can stretch, job in place some, stretch again, put my board on, then go 100ft and stop cause my read quad hurts so bad.. freakin crazy..


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## speedjason

DaryleTN said:


> I can bench 350 but squad 150... talk about out of balance!!!! More proof that I need to work on lower body more!
> 
> On toeside my hamstrings do pretty good. Heelside my rear quad is DYING!!! I purpose set up my run down a slope to allow me the most toe side (if that makes any sense) because heel side kills my rear quad so bad..


lol. I can only bench 145 but I can squat 235:laugh: also I weight 145:dunno:
you keep saying rear quad but you also say hamstrings. what are you exactly talking about?


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## DaryleTN

My bad.. I have no clue why I said hamstring. It's my quad (top of thigh) all the way. No hamstring trouble at all. Sorry about that!!!!


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## snowklinger

DaryleTN said:


> I can bench 350 but squad 150... .


I was kinda horsing around, but mystery solved, that is perty bad.

Only thing that is gonna help you when you aren't riding is hiking or stairs, or some similar kinetic.


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## slyder

*A lesson* Check your ego at the door. Seriously, when you get to your resort your 1st 2 hours get a private advanced lesson. Explain to the ski school your experience level and the issues you are having and need resolving. Sacrafice that early morning 2 hours to help you have a better over all trip for the next 3 days !!!
Spending an extra $100 and 2 hours I think would be beneficial to the entire cost of your trip. I don't think your buddies would mind nor would they laugh about this. Your trying to get better at a sport you do less then 5x a year. Hard to get better when you just keep doing the exercise wrong.

I don't think this is an issue of strength more mechanics. 
Can you post a pic of your angle set up now? 

I don't think it's your board either, again a better board may just magnify your bad mechanics

TN I don't think you have snow now, but, do you have a hill or something/somehow you can slide down to show us your riding form/stance prior to your trip.


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## snowklinger

slyder said:


> I don't think this is an issue of strength more mechanics.


qft, despite what I said, which is still true.


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## DaryleTN

Your right.. I decided this morning I'm going to get a private lesson in the morning. I can post a pic of setup when I get home this evening. We don't have real snow yet but we have all you could want of that man made crap! lol... Better than nothing i guess. Heading to Cataloochee Ski Area in North Carolina tomorrow. They've had a little real stuff. No hills for me right now. I live in a condo complex which is flat. I'm definetely going to get a lesson tomorrow and hope 10min into it the instructor goes "oh I see your problem!" Man that would be nice!


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## andrewdod

it's definitely your angles had the same issues when i started riding, switched to duck, it was like i was instantly doing better. Now, your ruddering habit is playing a role too you really need to learn how to carve.


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## speedjason

DaryleTN said:


> My bad.. I have no clue why I said hamstring. It's my quad (top of thigh) all the way. No hamstring trouble at all. Sorry about that!!!!


inner quad or outer?


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## DaryleTN

80% front of my quad.. 20% outer...


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## slyder

snowklinger said:


> qft, despite what I said, which is still true.


qft??? don't know what that is


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## atr3yu

slyder said:


> qft??? don't know what that is


Quoted for the truth


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## jml22

It's how you're riding, you're most likely not initiating with your weight perpendicular to the ground/your front foot, leading to overuse with your rear leg. Bindings angles have nothing to do with this. It's technique for however you're riding.


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## DaryleTN

Hopefully if it is technique and the instructor will be able to identify it. I've wondered about the same thing you said and tried to purposed put a lot of weight on the front just to see what would happed. Like 70% weight on front 30% rear just for a short run but it didn't seem to change things much. However, I may not notice that much of a difference if by then I've already killed my quad.. Tomorrow on the slopes is all going to be about working on technique and getting this figured out..


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## slyder

In addition to the lesson have a buddy video tape you This is also a valuable tool to help analyze your riding. Even during the lesson, then you can also review what the instructor showed you


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## DevilWithin

One other thing to check is the amount of forward lean you have set on your bindings. Take a look and dial it back some if necessary...too much forward lean can burn your quads quickly. You may also have more forward lean set on your rear binding, so make sure they are set to the same amount.


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## chomps1211

Lot's of good replies here. As you are hearing it could be one or any combination of things causing your pain. I will admit seeing the 350/150 ratio of bench to squats. Combined with the "ruddering" issue you described? That has me thinking seriously about lots of "backseat" riding on legs that are proportionately WAY weaker.

Seriously dude,.. (at least I hope you're a dude pressing 350!!!) Since you could obviously shatter my face with a punch, I'll keep my creepy brand of humor to a minimum,  but I knew plenty of dudes like you in the service. Massive chest and arms,.. Scrawny little chicken legs!

I am like others here and my legs and core are really strong. Even when I was hitting the gym 3-4 days a week for 1.5 hours at a crack. Best I ever got was 180 for the bench. First day in I could seated squat lift 350. Tops was 470. (...old back injury limits standing free weight squats for me!)

I didn't post this to brag,.. my long winded point is that on my very first day of 2ft deep POW? Near the end of last season when my legs where totally accustomed to all day riding,.. 1st 3-5 POW runs, with my weight mostly on the back leg and my thighs were burning like fuck!!!!

Work on the leg conditioning,.. you'll look more balanced in shorts for the summer,  and get the lessons to get your riding out of the back seat. My guess is a lot of that pain will go away! :thumbsup:


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## DaryleTN

Thanks again for all the replies and info!

I am definetely going to video tape the entire session.. well as much as possible.

I feel like a moron.. I never thought to even glance at the forward lean. Can't hurt. I will look at that tonight.

I am not not a dude.. you got something against a woman benching 350?

lol.. joking.. I'm a guy..

I've actually always been naturally stronger on my upper body than lower and have been working to offset that plus strengthen my core. Not just for boarding but just a good idea. I've just started a lot of plyo along with leg strengthening routines. Lucky for me (I guess lucky) powder for us in this area it being the 1st one on the slope the night after a 2in snow and hoping to get a couple runs in before it becomes hard pack 1hr later! lol...

What kills me is one of my buddies is 290lbs and his idea of eating healthy is getting a Coke instead of a milkshake with his double cheesburger but he can board like a boss all day and his only complaint is that he didn't bring a Snickers bar to pass time on chair lift.

oh yeah.. last time out a friend was behind me coming down the mountain. He said everytime I turned is looked like all I was doing was throwing the back of the board to change the direction and using my front leg as basically a pivot. But in my mind I'm not doing that. Guess the instructor should be able to tell me tomorrow!


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## ItchEtrigR

Your stance is probably too wide...


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## DaryleTN

Is there a chart somewhere that says how wide your stance should be based on height? Or do you say the hell with that and set it to whats comfortable for you? I'm not sure what mine are at. I will look tonight. The day I bought my board and bindings the shop was really busy so they basically unwrapped my board, slapped the bindings on, and then wished me luck..


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## baldylox

speedjason said:


> lol. I can only bench 145 but I can squat 235:laugh: also I weight 145:dunno:
> you keep saying rear quad but you also say hamstrings. what are you exactly talking about?


You squat that much with a barbell or a machine? You're a badass if that's a back squat.


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## baldylox

To the OP - I doubt it is a stance problem. Almost certainly this is technique and could be corrected with a couple lessons. Post a vid if you want feedback.


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## baldylox

DaryleTN said:


> Is there a chart somewhere that says how wide your stance should be based on height? Or do you say the hell with that and set it to whats comfortable for you? I'm not sure what mine are at. I will look tonight. The day I bought my board and bindings the shop was really busy so they basically unwrapped my board, slapped the bindings on, and then wished me luck..


Slightly wider than shoulder width is a good place to start. There is no right and wrong. It comes down to preference and comfort. If you are between 5'10 and 6', you'll probably end up pretty close to the indicated holes on the board.


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## speedjason

baldylox said:


> You squat that much with a barbell or a machine? You're a badass if that's a back squat.


with a barbell, yes back squat.
leg press I can press around 540 if I start my gym with leg press but I've never done it. I always barbel high bar squat first and then leg press 450lbs to burn them up..
I recently started doing low bar and it really kicks ass, literally.


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## chomps1211

DaryleTN said:


> Is there a chart somewhere that says how wide your stance should be based on height?


No. I don't think that would be very accurate anyway. I'm 6', but I'm "tall in the saddle!" Most of my height is in my torso. Between my hips & shoulders. I have a pretty short inseam for a guy my height! A chart that went just by overall height alone would probably have me spread out and squatting on the board like I was taking a dump!

...actually, I _have_ been riding with a pretty wide (dump like) stance since the end of last season. But I now seem to be having some issues with my knee(s)! I am hoping to fix that by adding canting to my bindings.

So many things about getting geared up and dialed in for snowboarding come down to an overall generalization to get you started, and from there you learn from personal experience, trial and error, etc. what works best for you and what doesn't. "Personal Preference" is King with many if not _most_ gear, stance, style choices!

That's why this forum is such a great resource! You not only have a wealth of experience to draw from to get answers to questions, but You can also cast a wide net with a question or issue and there are usually a few folks, Noobs & vet's alike that have similar experiences.

Hang in there! You'll get it figured out and fixed sooner or later! :thumbsup:


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## neni

Whatever you do, don't change too many things at once. Adjust one after the other to find out, what's causing your pain.

Is it pain like tired cramping muscles or nerve pain? If the first, I wouldn't suspect the angles, but too much forward lean on the rear binding and too much weight on rear leg.
Although having rather strong legs from horseriding all year round, snowboarding all day demands far more muscles than I can maintain over the summer... First days of the season I get comparable issue with the front leg (on groomers, my weight is mostly on front leg) if I ride with too much forward lean, thus at the beginning of the season, I have only mellow forward lean. After about 10days riding, it gets better and I begin to get more forward lean bit by bit; always more on front than rear.
First early season pow day - now weight more on rear leg - the muscle burn is on the rear leg, and as well less bad if highbacks are more straight.


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## DaryleTN

Ok gentlemen.. I spent 7 hrs yesterday on the slopes took a private lesson and here's the product of my trip..

First to answer neni's question. The quad pain comes on 60 seconds after I start.. Almost instant. Sometimes get's better if I can power through it. Sometimes get worse and I have to stop. Very rare for my to make it 1 full run without having to stop in the middle and rest my leg.

1) Before I left I set my bindings from +15/+6 to +9/-9. No science behind why I chose these settings. Just seemed like a good place to start. 1st run almost instant difference on rear quad. Now everyone you ask will tell you something different. But the instructor had me do a basic squat like I was picking something up. He said me knees and toes pointed WAY out. According to hime that's an indication that I would probably bemore comfortable riding duck. So far he's right.. I've never been so comforable..

2) He watched me do a couple runs my way. Basically said what I thought might be happening. That I was doing 75% of my steering with my back leg. So I hit the reset button on what I thought I knew. We started at the top with him right beside me giving me advise. By the end of the day (and $200 later) I was initiating turns with my front foot! This is the 1st time I've ever made it all day and didn't want to stop cause of pain. 

You guys are right... the bindings did make a difference, but it was 90% shitty technique and a lesson was definetely the way to go. I should have taken my pride out of the way last year and got a lesson but better late than never I guess.

And as always I came away with a couple more questions I would like your advise on..

He recommended canted foot beds. Said wether I "NEED" them or not they still take pressure of the knees? Any thought?

And the major question... My board is a Burton V-Rocker. I started out on a Morrow regular camber board. At this point I care more about control than anything else. I'm a long way from boxes and table tops.. So in your opinion should I stick with the V-Rocker or go back to a standard board? He was split on this.. He said he intially would recommend going back to camber..but since I'm basically now learning the right way to do things on the rocker that maybe I should stick with it.. Again I know it's a lot of personal preference but for someone who likes to comfortably carve groomers (which tend to be icy) which board do you guys recommend? It could be inexperience but I feel like I'm having to "dig in" a lot more on the rocker to initiate a carve than I did on my old board.. again it could just be that I suck...

Oh yeah.. I checked my high backs.. what crap. My bindings are Burton customs. They just have this little butterfly wheel you twist one way for (+) and one way for (-). I can't find a "reference" anywhere, but when I look down the board from the end it appears that my front highback is almost straight up and my rear has some forward lean. I have no clue what they are actually set at or what they are supposed to be. Any thoughts?

Sorry so long and thanks again for all the advise! Much appreciated!


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## speedjason

DaryleTN said:


> Ok gentlemen.. I spent 7 hrs yesterday on the slopes took a private lesson and here's the product of my trip..
> 
> First to answer neni's question. The quad pain comes on 60 seconds after I start.. Almost instant. Sometimes get's better if I can power through it. Sometimes get worse and I have to stop. Very rare for my to make it 1 full run without having to stop in the middle and rest my leg.
> 
> 1) Before I left I set my bindings from +15/+6 to +9/-9. No science behind why I chose these settings. Just seemed like a good place to start. 1st run almost instant difference on rear quad. Now everyone you ask will tell you something different. But the instructor had me do a basic squat like I was picking something up. He said me knees and toes pointed WAY out. According to hime that's an indication that I would probably bemore comfortable riding duck. So far he's right.. I've never been so comforable..
> 
> 2) He watched me do a couple runs my way. Basically said what I thought might be happening. That I was doing 75% of my steering with my back leg. So I hit the reset button on what I thought I knew. We started at the top with him right beside me giving me advise. By the end of the day (and $200 later) I was initiating turns with my front foot! This is the 1st time I've ever made it all day and didn't want to stop cause of pain.
> 
> You guys are right... the bindings did make a difference, but it was 90% shitty technique and a lesson was definetely the way to go. I should have taken my pride out of the way last year and got a lesson but better late than never I guess.
> 
> And as always I came away with a couple more questions I would like your advise on..
> 
> He recommended canted foot beds. Said wether I "NEED" them or not they still take pressure of the knees? Any thought?
> 
> And the major question... My board is a Burton V-Rocker. I started out on a Morrow regular camber board. At this point I care more about control than anything else. I'm a long way from boxes and table tops.. So in your opinion should I stick with the V-Rocker or go back to a standard board? He was split on this.. He said he intially would recommend going back to camber..but since I'm basically now learning the right way to do things on the rocker that maybe I should stick with it.. Again I know it's a lot of personal preference but for someone who likes to comfortably carve groomers (which tend to be icy) which board do you guys recommend? It could be inexperience but I feel like I'm having to "dig in" a lot more on the rocker to initiate a carve than I did on my old board.. again it could just be that I suck...
> 
> Oh yeah.. I checked my high backs.. what crap. My bindings are Burton customs. They just have this little butterfly wheel you twist one way for (+) and one way for (-). I can't find a "reference" anywhere, but when I look down the board from the end it appears that my front highback is almost straight up and my rear has some forward lean. I have no clue what they are actually set at or what they are supposed to be. Any thoughts?
> 
> Sorry so long and thanks again for all the advise! Much appreciated!


glad you figured out riding duck is the way to go. I ride +15/+15 and its comfy.
anyways your high back gives your boot forward lean but I normally just set mine at 0 degrees. you can adjust them to where you want if you want some forward lean.
rocker is fine, stick with it for a while then go for a camber or hybrid.


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