# No money in instructing



## JonSnow (Jul 24, 2013)

I just got a job working weekends as a snowboard instructor at Gunstock. I'm just doing it for fun, but damn was I surprised at the shitty pay. It only pays 7.50/hr and only if you have a lesson. Do all mountains pay this badly?

I'm just glad that I'm not trying to do it as a full time job. It may be a blast, but it's hard to make ends meet, let alone buy all the toys that you want, when you are earning minimum wage and you aren't even guaranteed 40 hours a week.

Are there experienced instructors who actually manage to make a decent paycheck?


----------



## Pigpen (Feb 3, 2013)

I know some people that instruct. It depends on certain things.. experience, the resort you're at, etc.. also, people tip pretty well (also, depending if you're good, and the area that you're at)
I know someone that just moved from MD to Park City UT to be a board instructor and she loves it, and makes solid dough


----------



## BigmountainVMD (Oct 9, 2011)

You really have to sell yourself to make money. Just don't expect lessons to fall in your lap. I instructed full time for 1 season and yeah, plenty of weeks I was only making $60, but vacation weeks and private lessons... I would end the week with 300 to 400 in my pocket. And that is only teaching for 3 or 4 hours a day.

Working weekends you definitely won't see a lot of cash, but anyone I know who only teaches weekends only does it for the pass. At my mountain (Sugarloaf) the full time guys would, for the most part, get their choice of lessons first. We usually just wanted to shred, so we would give the lessons away, but I got really good at spotting return clients, and people that were actually paying for lessons (not just the free lessons that come with hotel rooms). That means return customers if you can actually teach and aren't a dud. 

I had business cards and everything. I would hand them out at the end of every group lesson and usually get a call back for a private lesson. We got just over minimum wage for assigned group lessons, but for privates... it was like a role playing game where the more people that requested you, the more you would level up and make money. Level 1 was $15 an hour and by the end of the season I was level 4 making 28 or 30 an hour, and getting 2 to 3 hour requests AND getting dropped a $20 tip at the end of every lesson. That's best case scenario, but I wasn't some fuck-wit thinking I could teach just because I could ride. 

I read up on instruction techniques, went out with my supervisor to learn the awesome yet difficult process of diagnosing problems by watching people ride, and got my AASI Level I certification, which gave me access to all that teaching material and got me a small raise per hour.

Best advice I can give you is sell yourself like a car salesman does. Help them out every chance you get. Take them up the lift 1 more time after the lesson ends and let them know the lesson is over, but you think with 1 more run they can progress. That makes you stick in their head as an awesome dude. Make sure they KNOW YOUR NAME so they can request you if they like you. If it's a kid, hang out and meet the parents and talk to them about what you worked on. It all adds up to making more money.


----------



## ShredLife (Feb 6, 2010)

as a fishing guide one thing I can tell you that will get you tips, email addresses, and return clients is to have your own camera and take pics while you're working. then you can ask for their email or have them email you to get them. that way you start up a contact list and can send out mass bulletins to let em know you're back each season or that the snow is really good or whatever... some people won't care but the ones you impress will be clients for life.


----------



## ARSENALFAN (Apr 16, 2012)

ShredLife said:


> as a fishing guide one thing I can tell you that will get you tips, email addresses, and return clients is to have your own camera and take pics while you're working. then you can ask for their email or have them email you to get them. that way you start up a contact list and can send out mass bulletins to let em know you're back each season or that the snow is really good or whatever... some people won't care but the ones you impress will be clients for life.


Hey Shred. Torpedo and I love to fly fish. Where do you guide? Are you a fly fisherman? Maybe we can make the trip down and hire you for a day or two. I love fishing in the states. The fish seem to look up down there!


----------



## BigmountainVMD (Oct 9, 2011)

ShredLife said:


> as a fishing guide one thing I can tell you that will get you tips, email addresses, and return clients is to have your own camera and take pics while you're working. then you can ask for their email or have them email you to get them. that way you start up a contact list and can send out mass bulletins to let em know you're back each season or that the snow is really good or whatever... some people won't care but the ones you impress will be clients for life.


That's an awesome idea!


----------



## JonSnow (Jul 24, 2013)

Thanks for the good advice. It seems like you guys have it all figured out. Any recommendation on where I could get some good, free information on teaching techniques? It would be nice to make some actual money. I'll see if I can put your advice to use.


----------



## Bparmz (Sep 7, 2011)

You know nothing, Jon Snow.


----------



## BigmountainVMD (Oct 9, 2011)

JonSnow said:


> Thanks for the good advice. It seems like you guys have it all figured out. Any recommendation on where I could get some good, free information on teaching techniques? It would be nice to make some actual money. I'll see if I can put your advice to use.


Do you have a supervisor (one that is a snowboard instructor, not skier) that does any sort of training? You can probably learn a lot from them if they exist..

How far are you from Gunstock? My good friend is the snowboard instructor supervisor at Sugarloaf if you want to consider another mountain.


----------



## backstop13 (Jun 27, 2012)

Bparmz said:


> You know nothing, Jon Snow.


 well played


----------



## Jed (May 11, 2011)

JonSnow said:


> I just got a job working weekends as a snowboard instructor at Gunstock. I'm just doing it for fun, but damn was I surprised at the shitty pay. It only pays 7.50/hr and only if you have a lesson. Do all mountains pay this badly?
> 
> I'm just glad that I'm not trying to do it as a full time job. It may be a blast, but it's hard to make ends meet, let alone buy all the toys that you want, when you are earning minimum wage and you aren't even guaranteed 40 hours a week.
> 
> Are there experienced instructors who actually manage to make a decent paycheck?


As Bigmountainvmd mentioned, if you want to make decent money, you basically have to do privates and the way to get a lot of privates is selling yourself well.

Honestly, if you've ever worked retail on commission, it's a lot of the same sort of techniques, combined with relationship building so that you get repeat clients and referrals asking for you to do privates, otherwise you're stuck with basically minimum wage pay doing the few group lessons that you get assigned.

Are you certified with CASI or AASI? Both have instructional materials available to their members that goes over how to teach and how to teach different techniques and the learning steps to take students through.


----------



## JonSnow (Jul 24, 2013)

I'm too far away from Sugarloaf to try teaching there (1hr from Gunstock 3 from Sugarloaf). I am going to be shadowing a couple of lessons this weekend to learn the basics of teaching. I'll also see if I can get some of the more experienced instructors to give me some more advice. 

I'm not too worried about it though. I think I can lay the charm on thick, and figure it out as I go. I'll let you guys know if I'm really struggling and need some more advice.


----------



## Jed (May 11, 2011)

JonSnow said:


> I'm too far away from Sugarloaf to try teaching there (1hr from Gunstock 3 from Sugarloaf). I am going to be shadowing a couple of lessons this weekend to learn the basics of teaching. I'll also see if I can get some of the more experienced instructors to give me some more advice.
> 
> I'm not too worried about it though. I think I can lay the charm on thick, and figure it out as I go. I'll let you guys know if I'm really struggling and need some more advice.


Honestly one big thing that will make your life way easier is to write down and memorize one teaching exercise for each technique. Every good instructor has a bunch of exercises they use over and over.

For example:

For turning on steep terrain, some instructors tell people to pretend their front hand is a teapot spout and they have to pour the water out when they turn and this forces them to commit to the turn and stop riding backfoot on steeps.

Or for getting students to start using knees in turns, a lot of instructors like the 'small and tall' exercise where you tell students to pretend to be compact and small while riding, then stand up tall to start turning, then small again after they start turning.

You get the idea. There are a million of these types of exercises you can pick up from most instructors, so it's handy to pick up one or two for each technique you teach.


----------



## ShredLife (Feb 6, 2010)

ARSENALFAN said:


> Hey Shred. Torpedo and I love to fly fish. Where do you guide? Are you a fly fisherman? Maybe we can make the trip down and hire you for a day or two. I love fishing in the states. The fish seem to look up down there!


i guide fly fishing for steelhead with spey rods. there is a small bit trout that i would still do if the timing is right.

i started on the deschutes, moved out to the coast and did the siletz and nestucca, and now am up in ptown trying to learn the sandy, clackamas, and mouth of deschutes up to macks so that i can transition to guiding those rivers.


----------



## ShredLife (Feb 6, 2010)

ShredLife said:


> as a fishing guide one thing I can tell you that will get you tips, email addresses, and return clients is to have your own camera and take pics while you're working. then you can ask for their email or have them email you to get them. that way you start up a contact list and can send out mass bulletins to let em know you're back each season or that the snow is really good or whatever... some people won't care but the ones you impress will be clients for life.





BigmountainVMD said:


> That's an awesome idea!


to expand on this idea for snowboarding specifically - shoot a few short video clips of your clients riding, and then a week or so after the trip shoot them an email with the clip and some analysis of their riding and what they can do to improve certain things (or discuss in person at the end of the day). keep the email dialogue going with people who like it.


----------



## stickz (Feb 6, 2013)

BigmountainVMD said:


> You really have to sell yourself to make money. Just don't expect lessons to fall in your lap. I instructed full time for 1 season and yeah, plenty of weeks I was only making $60, but vacation weeks and private lessons... I would end the week with 300 to 400 in my pocket. And that is only teaching for 3 or 4 hours a day.
> 
> Working weekends you definitely won't see a lot of cash, but anyone I know who only teaches weekends only does it for the pass. At my mountain (Sugarloaf) the full time guys would, for the most part, get their choice of lessons first. We usually just wanted to shred, so we would give the lessons away, but I got really good at spotting return clients, and people that were actually paying for lessons (not just the free lessons that come with hotel rooms). That means return customers if you can actually teach and aren't a dud.
> 
> ...


I've been in sales my entire life. this dude just wrote a perfect blueprint in how to be a great instructor (def of great instructor being he makes good money). I would only add that you actually care about helping people. and you need to have a shitton of patients


----------



## BigmountainVMD (Oct 9, 2011)

stickz said:


> I've been in sales my entire life. this dude just wrote a perfect blueprint in how to be a great instructor (def of great instructor being he makes good money). I would only add that you actually care about helping people. and you need to have a shitton of patients


Yeah, I certainly would not have gone to all the trouble if I didn't care about helping people. I just wanted the lifestyle at first, but after teaching some bunny hill lessons and having people go from not being able to stand on a board to making turns in 2 hours, it was really amazing and I got addicted. By the end, I was getting advanced lessons (bumps, trees, steeps carving) which was AWESOME because you essentially get paid to shred HARD.


----------



## OU812 (Feb 2, 2013)

Just gonna throw some random thoughts out there.
I coach tennis for a living. Used to play prize money tournaments, been coaching for over 10 years now. Started playing when I was 5. Have gone as far as Spain to do a certification course, but well worth it. I work for myself now, my location allows it. I've worked at 5 star resorts, travelling coach for a top junior player, worked with juniors going pro or college scholarships, adults, etc.

Biggest things I've found is learn to teach everything like 20 different ways. Everyone understands things differently. Some people like a lot of talking, others need to be left alone and given minimal straight to the point instruction. Some people like to shoot the shit during their lessons, others wanna get in a much in that hour as possible. Learn to adapt, learn to talk to people and understand personalities. Not everyone will understand what you are talking about right away, so you gotta dig through and find a way to get to them. Telling someone to do something is ok, showing them is better, but making them feel it gives the greatest results. It makes them understand exactly what you're trying to get across, you build muscle memory and they can repeat it because they know exactly how it should feel like.

Never be late, 5-10min extra if you can works wonders and will most likely give you repeat lessons. Know your shit, and be quick with answers and know what you're talking about. People can smell bullshit a mile away. The best coaches I know are constantly learning, always looking for new and better ways to hone their teaching skills. Look into all types of philosophies, even ones you do not agree with so you can have answers to all types of questions. Develop your twist on teaching methods to stand out a bit. Learn about your strengths and weaknesses as a coach, understand what you're good at and what you need more work on. No one is great at everything.

I've gotten a fair bit of clients on business card alone, always have one handy. I've given my business card away to people who've asked at parties, bars, restaurants etc. Also, don't talk too much about personal things, the client doesn't wanna hear about your shit or your problems.


----------



## BigmountainVMD (Oct 9, 2011)

YUP. Isolating the way that someone learns is pretty difficult, but once you get the hang of it, the whole lesson will run much smoother. Being aware of your own style helps as well. Coming from a science and research background, I tend to talk a lot and give a ton of analytical explanations regarding how to snowboard. You can tell when you have over explained when you get a blank stare back... 

The method I started using was only talking on the lift. Every ride up, you would talk about a skill you would work on that run. Explain the exercise, and when you are on the slope, just give short, quick pointers or allow the person to watch you perform the task first.


----------



## JonSnow (Jul 24, 2013)

Wow, you guys all have some great advice. I'll try to keep it all in my head for my first lessons this weekend. Wish me luck


----------



## Outlander (Nov 28, 2011)

Along with the other advice, if you are serious, and work at a resort, you have to go through the AASI program and first get your Cert 1, then start training for your Cert 2. Most resorts do not give the premium private lessons to part time and non certified or even AASI 1 instructors. There is a HUGE leap in both riding and teaching standards between your level 1 and level 2 and generally a decent pay increase too. 

Once you are a level 2 with a couple of seasons at the resort (don`t job hop if you can help it; stay with the same resort and develop a good reputation) then you will start getting the private lessons. This is where the advice that Shred gave you comes into play. Videotaping your clients and being able to give good movement analysis while your client can actually see themselves riding is one of the best tools a coach can use. 

Even if you are just doing it for the pass and part time, get your Cert 1. Its super easy to get and most resorts do the exam in house with your training director. Its not expensive and it gets you full access to all of the AASI teaching materials that will help you out as an instructor. Additionally, attend every riding and teaching clinic that your ski school offers for free. A side benefit of this is it also improves your own riding in so many ways.

AASI isn't of course perfect and some of their methods conflict with others such as CASI or private coaching. In general, it has proven to be one of the most effective teaching models out there but there are many ways to coach so don't develop the mindset that there is the AASI way and the wrong way. Too often new instructors get this mindset and it just isn't the right way to approach coaching or snowboarding.

Good luck with it and keep it fun!


----------



## spino (Jan 8, 2013)

sorry if i am a bit OT, but...

can anyone in the US actually work as an instructor without being certified?


----------



## JonSnow (Jul 24, 2013)

Yeah, I just got a job as an instructor and I have not been certified, and there is no requirement to ever get certified.


----------



## spino (Jan 8, 2013)

JonSnow said:


> Yeah, I just got a job as an instructor and I have not been certified, and there is no requirement to ever get certified.


understood.
of course, i did not mean to be disrespectful at all, it was just a curoisity.
here in italy you cannot teach (at least officially) without being certified.
which occurs after a very long (and expensive) training.

anyway, good luck on your job! :thumbsup:


----------



## Jed (May 11, 2011)

spino said:


> sorry if i am a bit OT, but...
> 
> can anyone in the US actually work as an instructor without being certified?


It varies a lot from resort to resort. Typically smaller local resorts will hire without certification, but at the bigger resorts they'll only hire certified instructors and at some of the very big/popular resorts they won't even look at you unless you have a minimum of level 2 certification.


----------



## BigmountainVMD (Oct 9, 2011)

Outlander said:


> Along with the other advice, if you are serious, and work at a resort, you have to go through the AASI program and first get your Cert 1, then start training for your Cert 2. Most resorts do not give the premium private lessons to part time and non certified or even AASI 1 instructors. There is a HUGE leap in both riding and teaching standards between your level 1 and level 2 and generally a decent pay increase too.
> 
> Once you are a level 2 with a couple of seasons at the resort (don`t job hop if you can help it; stay with the same resort and develop a good reputation) then you will start getting the private lessons. This is where the advice that Shred gave you comes into play. Videotaping your clients and being able to give good movement analysis while your client can actually see themselves riding is one of the best tools a coach can use.
> 
> ...


I agree with everything except the part about non-certified snowboard instructors not getting lessons. This is not true at all on the east coast. I wasn't certified until the end of March, but I was getting private lessons left and right the entire season. Very few of the snowboard instructors were actually certified, and plenty of them had private lessons often. They actually advertised the AASI courses as "not necessary unless you want to teach out west." YES, if you are out west they automatically think you are shit if you don't have AASI credentials, but no so on the east coast.

That being said, I definitely learn a lot from my AASI 1 course that I couldn't have learned elsewhere. It certainly helped me develop in to a better instructor. I've been trying to get my level II for 2 years, but the exam dates and locations are a PITA to get to, especially if you have other obligations (school) monday through friday.


----------



## MGD81 (Mar 13, 2012)

BigmountainVMD said:


> YES, if you are out west they automatically think you are shit if you don't have AASI credentials, but no so on the east coast.


In my experience, east coast resorts don't get to be that picky when hiring instructors.

And yes, west coast resorts _can_assume the worst if you don't have a certification - because the applicant didn't prove any different by taking one. 

Plenty of the resorts out west will still hire without certification, its just not as easy to get a job. If you are keen to learn, can make turns without kicking your back foot around, are approachable, nice, tidy, smart, have people experience, there is no reason you wont get a job, the AASI cert might be the difference in you getting part or full time, or even getting in front of a snowboard manager to showcase your persona. 

Oh, and at the start, its highly likely you will get put onto privates, especially a busy resort - a supervisor would much rather the experienced staff manage the large groups while you get put on a 1 on 1 private. Most of the time you will know more than the guest anyway, and if you dont and they complain they just comp the lesson - no big deal to the resort in the grand scheme of things.


----------



## AIRider (Dec 25, 2010)

Bparmz said:


> You know nothing, Jon Snow.



Hahaha.


----------



## Becca M (Dec 24, 2012)

I learned to ride at Gunstock last winter - some AWESOME instructors there and some so-so.... I think it's a great place to learn!!!!! They got me riding switch right away, once I could do heel-side and toe-side turns consistently and then started teaching me ground tricks. People at other resorts I visit ask me where I learned and I proudly say, "GUNSTOCK!!!" 

(I've also ridden Mt Washington since then  )


----------

