# Mountain High, CA roads during storm and no chains???



## wildshoetwt (Feb 14, 2013)

rvcasrfr said:


> This is my first season doing a lot of commuting to the mountains and taking riding seriously (been going once a week). I did a night session a couple weeks ago where it started snowing and about 5 inches came down. The manual for my car says the suspension is too low for chains and so I talk with some employees/locals once it started snowing about if I should stick around... After being told by said locals to not worry about getting snowed in or the roads being unsafe unless the snow gets deep enough to where you have trouble walking I decided to wing it and stick it out for the rest of the night. And BOY was it worth it. The roads were icy as F and there was a chain requirement for cars coming up, but there was no chain requirement going down (like the locals said rarely happens) and taking it EXTREMELY slow down seemed to pose no risk. All in all everything turned out great and I would feel safe doing it all over again for sure
> 
> Which brings me to my current situation... As some of you may know a nice FAT single day storm is coming through on Tuesday. 4 inches are forecasted during the day with 5 to 9 at night. I DESPERATELY want to shred that night session, but this time I don't know if it's something I can get away with. I seriously don't know anything about how much worse the roads will be this time around vs last time and how much more difficult the increased snowfall is going to make driving the roads safely without chains.
> 
> ...


As always with weather these things can be unpredictable, the good news is it's not a busy day so worst case scenario you could book a cheap room for the night and wait for the road to get plowed. 

My guess is that Mt. High will be easily accessed and departed from during the storm. Big Bear is another beast altogether. The issue is not necessarily the turns but the grade. I remember when a landmark blizzard hit right as we were leaving Big Bear, and the snow started coming down hard, and we were driving down a flat strip of road and cars were spinning out all over the place, we decided to turn around and get a room...the U-Turn and subsequent drive back through car after car losing control on the downhill grade and sliding nearly into us was extremely dangerous. Those roads have cliff drops, and 1 car may not be enough to dent the barriers, but two cars certainly could create a deadly drop. 

The moral of the story is simple. If you don't have 4WD or chains, and if you're a typical LA driver who never changes their tires and has to drive 40mpg in light showers or risk skidding, then you should probably reconsider. It's not just for your safety, it is for others safety as well. Especially if you plan on driving back at night. 

Also, CHP can and will ticket you for not having chains.

The chain requirement is mainly for the downgrades, where you need to dig into the ice to have any chance of control. Driving uphill, especially if you have momentum, you will not notice the ice, I have made the drive many times and the ice is very subtle on the way up, but shit can get -very- real on the way down. 

My advice would be to rent/borrow a car with 4WD, with the forecasted snow and 4WD or tire chains, you will be absolutely fine leaving Mt. High.


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## rvcasrfr (Apr 5, 2009)

wildshoetwt said:


> As always with weather these things can be unpredictable, the good news is it's not a busy day so worst case scenario you could book a cheap room for the night and wait for the road to get plowed.
> 
> My guess is that Mt. High will be easily accessed and departed from during the storm. Big Bear is another beast altogether. The issue is not necessarily the turns but the grade. I remember when a landmark blizzard hit right as we were leaving Big Bear, and the snow started coming down hard, and we were driving down a flat strip of road and cars were spinning out all over the place, we decided to turn around and get a room...the U-Turn and subsequent drive back through car after car losing control on the downhill grade and sliding nearly into us was extremely dangerous. Those roads have cliff drops, and 1 car may not be enough to dent the barriers, but two cars certainly could create a deadly drop.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the reply.. It seems like throughout most of it you were addressing Big Bear though. I am definitely going to Mt High.. Did you mean shit can get -very- real on the way down from High? Because like I said, I came down at 11pm right after 5 inches came down and after getting adjusted to how quickly you can lose traction if you hold the brakes I felt practically zero loss of control. Can I expect this to be drastically different/more extreme due to the double snowfall and lower temps of this storm? That is my main concern... Also borrowing a car is definitely not an option.. It's pretty much just don't go if the consensus is that driving the night of Tuesday's storm without chains would be a mistake

I also got new tires like 3 months ago if that makes a difference


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## mhaas (Nov 25, 2007)

Get cable chains. They are very low profile compared to the actual chain links that trucks use. And put your car in a lower gear to engine brake and keep you at a consistant speed rather than ride you brakes the whole way down.


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## edlo (Jan 24, 2011)

rvcasrfr said:


> Thanks for the reply.. It seems like throughout most of it you were addressing Big Bear though. I am definitely going to Mt High.. Did you mean shit can get -very- real on the way down from High? Because like I said, I came down at 11pm right after 5 inches came down and after getting adjusted to how quickly you can lose traction if you hold the brakes I felt practically zero loss of control. Can I expect this to be drastically different/more extreme due to the double snowfall and lower temps of this storm? That is my main concern... Also borrowing a car is definitely not an option.. It's pretty much just don't go if the consensus is that driving the night of Tuesday's storm without chains would be a mistake
> 
> I also got new tires like 3 months ago if that makes a difference


New tires don't mean anything. It would be a mistake if you know you will encounter weather and choose to put yourself in a situation knowing you might have problem. If it snows at Mammoth CHP will check every car for chain. 4x4 must carry chains too, you will be turned back if you don't carry them. mammoth is a very flat drive. 
Just because you didn't have a problem one day doesn't mean you won't another, that is why it it called an accident, it was unplanned. Even chains don't guarantee you won't have problems. 

Have you googled you car model and snow cables? 

If you have the money and space and cables also don't work for you , you might consider another set of smaller narrower set of wheels and tires. Did you know we have the most lawyers per capita ?


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## wildshoetwt (Feb 14, 2013)

edlo said:


> New tires don't mean anything. It would be a mistake if you know you will encounter weather and choose to put yourself in a situation knowing you might have problem. If it snows at Mammoth CHP will check every car for chain. 4x4 must carry chains too, you will be turned back if you don't carry them. mammoth is a very flat drive.
> Just because you didn't have a problem one day doesn't mean you won't another, that is why it it called an accident, it was unplanned. Even chains don't guarantee you won't have problems.
> 
> Have you googled you car model and snow cables?
> ...


CHP only check cars on the weekends and it's another example of CA exploiting its citizens for revenue. There is absolutely no need for tire chains in Mammoth if it has -already- snowed, all of the uphill areas can be easily avoided by taking a shuttle, the only time you might want tire chains is to get out of a tricky parking spot. 

Big Bear is another animal altogether. CHP rarely enforce tire chains, in fact the locals will give you a dirty look if conditions are bad and you aren't rocking em. 

Cable chains are not that much of a lower profile, but it's hard for me to believe that they would cause an issue with his suspension.

While I agree that new tires hardly make a difference, they do make some difference compared to the notoriously dead/bald tires LA'ers rocker.

My vote is simply a no without chains or 4WD. 5 inches of snow can fall relatively fast and if you plan on leaving at night you will be driving through the worst of it.


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## mhaas (Nov 25, 2007)

And dont be that guy who is driving 10mph because you are not prepared when those with 4WD or chains can safely drive much faster.


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## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

go, park at the bottom and hitch :dunno:


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## Toecutter (Oct 11, 2009)

I'd be concerned. We don't have all of the meteorological factors to look at, but with that amount of snow and those temps I'm guessing the snow could be a bit wet and heavy, which can either high center your car or send you spinning into the ditch. What's the predicted high for Wednesday?

Maybe I missed it, but what's your vehicle and snow driving experience?


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## edlo (Jan 24, 2011)

wildshoetwt said:


> CHP only check cars on the weekends and it's another example of CA exploiting its citizens for revenue. There is absolutely no need for tire chains in Mammoth if it has -already- snowed, all of the uphill areas can be easily avoided by taking a shuttle, the only time you might want tire chains is to get out of a tricky parking spot.
> 
> Big Bear is another animal altogether. CHP rarely enforce tire chains, in fact the locals will give you a dirty look if conditions are bad and you aren't rocking em.
> 
> ...



Big Beach CHP is letting Natural Selection take its course. 

I cant see how the chains can hit the suspension parts on cars when the car bounces or if the chains are put too lose, especailly when people put wider performace tires on, great choice for the snow. The stuff will scrap the mounts of the structs , not the shocks or springs themselves. Even if it is the suspension that damages the chain, you are still going to have ulgy problems.

Although most tires that I've seen have M+S stamped on the side (Mud and Snow) m new Bridgestone did not perform as well as myMichelines. Don't trust to be safe just because M + S is stamped on the sidewall. 


I have some cables that I'm about to post on the FS section and CL, what size tires do you have?


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## IdahoFreshies (Jul 9, 2011)

Just wondering...what car do you have? 

Chains of course dont fit, but cables are pretty doable on lower cars. The best cable style is the diamond shaped style. That will give you the best traction. However if you have to ask if conditions are alright to even drive there with the projected snow it would seem you are not fully experienced or prepared enough to drive comfortably in it. If you aren't fully confident in you or your vehicle and the snow fall is as severe as you think my suggestion would be to take a shuttle or find a ride with someone experienced and with 4wd.


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## jdang307 (Feb 6, 2011)

I got chains for my 2008 Taurus. Cable ones, got them real tight, and they still ripped the shit out of my abs sensors. My buddy who replaced them told me there is barely any clearance between the abs wire and the tires. Only cost me $100 but still.


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## Argo (Feb 25, 2010)

I have been stopped in oregon and california with chain law in effect. They passed me with the M/S symbol... That is MOUNTAIN AND SNOW... and the 4x4. Said I was fine. Just get a truck like mine.... I was waiting on Avy control here in southern CO.


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## jdang307 (Feb 6, 2011)

I thought it was Mud and Snow.


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## Argo (Feb 25, 2010)

one more.....


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## Argo (Feb 25, 2010)

jdang307 said:


> I thought it was Mud and Snow.


the M/S symbol is a little mountain with a snowflake on top of it.. that means they are snow rated tires usually with extensive sipping on the treat of the tire. usually they are predrilled for studs too.


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## snowklinger (Aug 30, 2011)

I also was under the impression that the m/s refers to mud and snow. This was a designation prior to the snowflake symbol becoming a standardized winter upgrade version of the same. Basically we had m/s tires already, and you can still get them without the the snowflake symbol, but the snowflake symbol is the shit u want. :dunno:

Also fwiw, this year I got generic snowtires after having a "high performance" snowtire the last few($300vs$500), and I can tell you that the difference is significant, and I will be returning to premiums as fast as I can burnout the tread on these.

edit: to the OP: yes things can be 1000x worse than last time. Maritime snow can be very wet and under the pressure of your bald summer LA tires will get slicker than whale shit in an ice floe.


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## Argo (Feb 25, 2010)

Guess I never bothered looking at just m/s since I have always purchased oversized mud tires since I started driving. I upgraded this year to tires with the moutain/flake symbol to try it out. major difference in traction for sure. 

I put studded hankook tires on my wifes little front wheel drive car this season too. That thing drives like its on rails through most conditions. Amazing difference.


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## snowklinger (Aug 30, 2011)

Argo said:


> Guess I never bothered looking at just m/s since I have always purchased oversized mud tires since I started driving. I upgraded this year to tires with the moutain/flake symbol to try it out. major difference in traction for sure.
> 
> I put studded hankook tires on my wifes little front wheel drive car this season too. That thing drives like its on rails through most conditions. Amazing difference.


If I lived up there I'd throw studs on my lil fwd too for sure.


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## jml22 (Apr 10, 2012)

So i'm from Vancouver and i've gotten to experience watching Californians drive in the snow twice now and it's a true spectacle. I'm going to go pro it next time.
Btu seriously Don't be fucking retarded.
If highway patrol says chains, put your fukcing chains on, buy them there or turn around. Im tired of other people wasting my time because they think they can get through with a rear wheel drive car/suv/truck because they're too cheap to buy chains.
If they say chains, there's usually a reason.

Rule #2 if you spin and out and block both lanes DO NOT DECIDE THAT"S A GOOD TIME TO PUT YOUR CHAINS ON. Move your fucking car out of the way first and then do it. Also if you're going to put your chains on, pull to the side of the damn road.

Alright so if you decide to get cables make sure they're tight enough or you're just goign to spin out even worse and break them. I would just buy the ones that tighten on their own, they're the best.

Seriously the most frustrating thing i've had to go through twice because people are stupid down here.


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