# All mountain stiffness? 8/10? NORTHWAVE BOOTS



## Decade190 (Feb 26, 2012)

Hey guys,
So i'm on an NS proto with burton genesis bindings... Current boots are 2011 northwave calibre (5/10 stiffness supposedly).

I'm finding that they feel too soft and whilst they're super forgiving for bailing in the park and for trying tamedogs etc... When i'm on groomers/off-piste I feel they are lacking in response. 

It's also hard to tail press/butter the proto as my foot seems to move in the boot a lot before it starts pressing the board. 

Now I know it's "90% rider, 10% gear" but wondering what boot stiffness people generally use for all mountain?

I'm considering getting Northwave Decades (8/10, too stiff?) or Northwave Legends (7/10). Any opinions? Northwave boots definitely fit my foot best so gunna stick with them.

Thanks!

TLDR: All mountain boot stiffness opinions? Legend vs Decade?


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## Tatanka Head (Jan 13, 2014)

I like stiff boots. I'm also a big guy (read: one part cake fat and one part Giant dna), so I guess it is relative to my weight.

I like mid/stiff bindings. They tend to be more playful and forgiving. And I like my board to be mid/stiff. This is a comvination that works best for me.

I'm currently contemplating on buting a board that is very stiff, but one size under my suggested weight. I still dont know if this is a brilliant idea or completely stupid. Or both.

I cant speak on Northwave, but the rest is all up to you. There is no proper protocol to follow.


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## tonicusa (Feb 27, 2008)

Performance generally increases with stiffness, but it can add some difficulty if you aren't an experienced rider. You will notice a night and day difference moving to something a little stiffer like the Burton Ion which would be a great match with the Genesis which is not a stiff binding. Jumps will be easier, moguls, turning and carving to some degree etc.


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## Bones (Feb 24, 2008)

I like stiff boots and bindings on mid stiffness boards. I'm not a park rider so most of the benefits of a softer setup don't do that much for me. I like the responsiveness and the ease of getting the full range of torque motion.

I like Northwave boots as well, fit my foot very nicely. Currently in the Domain (10/10) with an older pair of Ride SPI bindings (so to be replaced)

I'd say that if your foot is moving inside the boot before the boot transfers that motion to the board, then you need a better fitting boot. I've found that Nothwaves pack out close to a full size over the first season, so maybe try some insoles first.


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## kosmoz (Dec 27, 2013)

I have decades, love them.


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## Decade190 (Feb 26, 2012)

Bones said:


> I like stiff boots and bindings on mid stiffness boards. I'm not a park rider so most of the benefits of a softer setup don't do that much for me. I like the responsiveness and the ease of getting the full range of torque motion.
> 
> I like Northwave boots as well, fit my foot very nicely. Currently in the Domain (10/10) with an older pair of Ride SPI bindings (so to be replaced)
> 
> I'd say that if your foot is moving inside the boot before the boot transfers that motion to the board, then you need a better fitting boot. I've found that Nothwaves pack out close to a full size over the first season, so maybe try some insoles first.


Yeah, well I kind of mean that the boot itself flexes several inches forwards before the board fully flexes... just feels that there's reduced power transmitted from me to the board. If I tighten everything super tight including the straps then this increases a little. 

Yeah, I'm a 10US normally and get the northwaves in a 10. They were too tight at first but now if anything are slightly too big. Probly why they are so dam comfy



kosmoz said:


> I have decades, love them.


Nice. Any issues with them? And do you freestyle at all? Also, did you buy them in your correct shoe size or size down?

Thanks everyone. V. helpful


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## Decade190 (Feb 26, 2012)

tonicusa said:


> Performance generally increases with stiffness, but it can add some difficulty if you aren't an experienced rider. You will notice a night and day difference moving to something a little stiffer like the Burton Ion which would be a great match with the Genesis which is not a stiff binding. Jumps will be easier, moguls, turning and carving to some degree etc.


More difficult in that I'm more likely to catch an edge? 
Yeah, I like the Ion, reduced footprint is good bonus for avoiding toe drag. 

Maybe some of the problem with responsiveness is from the genesis (I used to ride cartels). I'm not convinced I can feel any difference in response/cushioning with the genesis (especially for the dollar they cost!) and may have fallen for marketing tbh. If anything they feel slow to respond on heelside turns. Only obvious bonus is the ratchets...


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## tonicusa (Feb 27, 2008)

Don't kid yourself, the Genesis is really an excellent binding and one of the few that manages to provide all mountain response while still maintaining flexibility. 

You won't catch an edge with stiffer boots, in fact it will be even easier to set an edge. It's just that stiffer boots require more effort to bend your knees in and to drive forward against the cuff. You just have to accentuate certain flexion movements more. But a lot of guys accommodate for this by leaving the upper laces a little looser.


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## Decade190 (Feb 26, 2012)

tonicusa said:


> Don't kid yourself, the Genesis is really an excellent binding and one of the few that manages to provide all mountain response while still maintaining flexibility.
> 
> You won't catch an edge with stiffer boots, in fact it will be even easier to set an edge. It's just that stiffer boots require more effort to bend your knees in and to drive forward against the cuff. You just have to accentuate certain flexion movements more. But a lot of guys accommodate for this by leaving the upper laces a little looser.


Is it better practice to learn to ride without loosening?

My mate swears by stiff boots and rides them loose nearly all day. When we go into the park he loosens them off loooads.

So shall i dive right in with the decades? Better boot but 8/10 compared to Legends 7/10. Bearing in mind i want to hit the park plenty I can't decide


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## tonicusa (Feb 27, 2008)

Better to learn to ride with laced boots. But there are only so many days to ride so sometimes you so whatever it takes to have fun. Yeah grab the stiffer boots they will work fine in the park.


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## Decade190 (Feb 26, 2012)

tonicusa said:


> Better to learn to ride with laced boots. But there are only so many days to ride so sometimes you so whatever it takes to have fun. Yeah grab the stiffer boots they will work fine in the park.


Sweet. Cheers yeah, i'll go with the decades I think.
My current ones are a size 10US... they were tight at first with my toe touching the front until crouching in stance... but now they are plenty roomy.

Will the stiffer boot pack out less? 
Considering getting size 9.5 but would have to wear them round the house to pad them out a tad before riding


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## tonicusa (Feb 27, 2008)

No stiffness shouldn't effect pack out, it's the same TF foam liner system. The Tf1 in your Caliber just has fewer features than the TF3.


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## kosmoz (Dec 27, 2013)

Decade190;30760
[QUOTE="kosmoz said:


> I have decades, love them.


Nice. Any issues with them? And do you freestyle at all? Also, did you buy them in your correct shoe size or size down?

Thanks everyone. V. helpful[/QUOTE]

Absolutely no issues. I had size 10 salomons, which were a little to big, so I ordered size 9,5 decades. They were snug and toes were touching boot front maybe a tad to much but heat molded them and now they are perfect. They run true size and regular width. Very good built quality. Laces holds all day, no need to tighten every few runs. Honestly, I almost didnt freestyle, because I' m fresh at snowboarding and my board is very stiff, so just tried some presses, jumps and I dont feel that these boots will limit me in frystyle.


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## ScottVD (Jan 19, 2011)

After two seasons of riding I purchased a new pair of boots that were designed to be stiffer than my original pair. I was completely shocked how much of a difference stiffness can make- it took a few hours of riding to get used to the increase in responsiveness. Now I'm considering stiffer boots again, something around an 8/10. I ride about 60% double black technical stuff, 20% trees, and 20% park. Obviously all boots start out stiff and soften up a bit as they break in. If you're riding type favors technical stuff, go for the 8/10 over the 7.


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## SkullAndXbones (Feb 24, 2014)

stiff boards, stiff boots, and stiff bindings is the way to go for fast and responsive riding. i would say go with boots and bindings that are 7/10 or higher in terms of stiffness.


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## Decade190 (Feb 26, 2012)

SkullAndXbones said:


> stiff boards, stiff boots, and stiff bindings is the way to go for fast and responsive riding. i would say go with boots and bindings that are 7/10 or higher in terms of stiffness.


Even all those stiffnesses for freestyle elements too? I have a one board quiver due to time/finances


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