# K2 National or Union Contact Pro?



## daveykim (Jan 5, 2012)

Hey Guys
Just got me a Never Summer Evo (Mostly freestyle/mountain board).

so ive been looking into the k2 national and contact pros which are like equivalent freestyle orientated bindings. 
anyone have any experience with either?

Thanks
davey


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## oefdevilvet (Feb 4, 2011)

Never used either one because parks don't really appeal to me, but in my neck of the woods, I've seen a lot more people with Contacts. The only universal complaint I hear about Unions is their toecaps suck, and I've heard on this forum that some people are actually changing the toecaps out with Burton parts, other than that Union seems to make good bindings overall. Nationals I can't help you with, I've neither owned a K2 binding, nor seen anyone in my circle using them. I know K2 makes good equipment but the only thing I buy from them is boots.


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## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

Ive ridden both, hands down would choose the Nationals. Only thing is that urethane highback, though stiffer than the Hurrithane's, is fairly soft. If you like to drive into your highback in a turn you'll miss having a nylon one.

If you do want some highback to push into I would say Raiden Zeros, Flux TT30, K2 Auto Uprise, Flow M9se's, or even Salomon Arcades over Contact Pro's. And the Pro's are my most highly regarded Union.

And as far as the company, their brand manager REFUSED to take the opportunity to regain my faith in the product at SIA this year. I was fully prepared to try the new toestrap, new Contact highback, the Atlas... With an open mind, I want to like Union. They just make it so damn hard.


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## onefutui2e (Jan 25, 2011)

you can also throw the ride rodeo (or ride delta pre-2012) to the mix as soft bindings that can still take a good charge.


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## daveykim (Jan 5, 2012)

Nivek said:


> If you do want some highback to push into I would say Raiden Zeros, Flux TT30, K2 Auto Uprise, Flow M9se's, or even Salomon Arcades over Contact Pro's. And the Pro's are my most highly regarded Union.


thanks for the help.
i just simply wanna pick one, buy, and ride! i dont dig hard into my highbacks but then i only have experience with my rome s90 bindings.

i do mostly park and jumps (75%) and 25% other stuff. 
anyone specific one you reccommend? funny because someone told me to go with the pros because he didnt like the auto feature on the k2s. i know its all preference but still haha


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## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

Auto is a different feel. It allows a bit of strap play with that floating tension the cable system creates.

Well if youre a jumper more than a jibber get Raiden Phantoms. If youre a jibber more than a jumper get the Zeros or Nationals. If its truly 50/50 I love my M9se's, otherwise I say still say Phantoms. Oh and by jumper i mean 30+ feet between lip and knuckle


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## daveykim (Jan 5, 2012)

Nivek said:


> Well if youre a jumper more than a jibber get Raiden Phantoms. If youre a jibber more than a jumper get the Zeros or Nationals. If its truly 50/50 I love my M9se's, otherwise I say still say Phantoms. Oh and by jumper i mean 30+ feet between lip and knuckle


I see. Ill look into the Raidens then. For those who want a softer "skateboard" style (whatever the hell that means. i use to skateboard with varial and 6 stairs being my peak but i dont know how that translates into bindings haha)m they seem to be pretty good. ive done about 25. by next year, i would like to hit 30-40 (max). hmm im leaning towards zeros but ill check out the m9s as well.

thanks for your help


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## daveykim (Jan 5, 2012)

onefutui2e said:


> you can also throw the ride rodeo (or ride delta pre-2012) to the mix as soft bindings that can still take a good charge.


these look really interesting as well! like the raiden zeros with a slightly higher price tag and cooler design.


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## grinaldo3 (Feb 3, 2012)

Nivek said:


> Ive ridden both, hands down would choose the Nationals. Only thing is that urethane highback, though stiffer than the Hurrithane's, is fairly soft. If you like to drive into your highback in a turn you'll miss having a nylon one.
> 
> If you do want some highback to push into I would say Raiden Zeros, Flux TT30, K2 Auto Uprise, Flow M9se's, or even Salomon Arcades over Contact Pro's. And the Pro's are my most highly regarded Union.
> 
> And as far as the company, their brand manager REFUSED to take the opportunity to regain my faith in the product at SIA this year. I was fully prepared to try the new toestrap, new Contact highback, the Atlas... With an open mind, I want to like Union. They just make it so damn hard.


Nivek, they wouldn't let you try them out or you didn't like what you tried? Can you tell me anything about the new features on the Union lineup?

Like you said I really want to like Unions but its looking like my next bindings won't be from them.


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## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

grinaldo3 said:


> Nivek, they wouldn't let you try them out or you didn't like what you tried? Can you tell me anything about the new features on the Union lineup?
> 
> Like you said I really want to like Unions but its looking like my next bindings won't be from them.


I was supposed to be meeting with the brand manager to get a full run down of the whole line and then I guess "priority" demos at the on snow. Then he found out I work for angrysnowboarder, who doesn't pull punches and spoke his mind on some of the problems with Unions, so he recalled his offer. The demo cards at the on snow state who you're with so it wouldn't have surprised me if angrysnowboarder was red flagged at the Union tent so I didn't even bother.

How much faith can you put in their product if they don't even have enough faith to regain a previously loyal supporter with new additions to the lineup? I rode Union exclusively for 3 years. He was just too butt hurt by what angry said about earlier product that he didn't wanna risk any more bad reviews. No faith.

So, until they make an effort to change my mind, Union is sub par per price point. Want Contacts? Get Arcades or Quattro's. Contact Pros? Zero's or TT30's. Forces? Formulas or TT30's. Force SL? Phantom's or SF45's. DLX? Indy's.


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## Extremo (Nov 6, 2008)

Don't listen to Nivek. He's a Union hater. Contact Pro's are super comfy. I'm not a fan of them only because I like a more stiffer response, but if you're looking for a flexy feel then you'll be more than happy with them.


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## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

Extremo said:


> Don't listen to Nivek. He's a Union hater. Contact Pro's are super comfy. I'm not a fan of them only because I like a more stiffer response, but if you're looking for a flexy feel then you'll be more than happy with them.


Hater? Why cause I like to tell people of the inferior ratchets? Botch toe straps? Sub par dampening? Near useless highbacks? Average to heavy weight? My bad.

I have OWNED Conacts, Force SL's, and Data's. Ridden Contact Pro's and Forces on more than one occasion. I don't dislike the bindings blindly. And I'm not remotely the only person that sees the flaws.

I hate this obnoxious mentality attatched to Union that if you don't think they're the end all be all of bindings its just cause you're a hater. I've ridden more bindings in the last 2 years than most people ever ride.


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## Extremo (Nov 6, 2008)

From someone who's ridden them for years, and have tried to replace them with something new numerous time, only to be dissapointed, I've seen you just nitpick Union. For example, the toe ratchet is single stage, so it sticks a little when you release it. But the upside to the single stage is they don't skip as they tighten, the way dual stage ratchets do, and they're smooth unlike multiple mechanism ratchets. Union has dampening, but not an over abundance of it, so you have more board feel, while other companies just stick an inch of foam under your feet. The ankle straps are firm and can cause pressure points when left strapped tight all day, but in turn they're responsive unlike other straps that compromise performance for comfort with garbage that feels like marshmellow strapped to your feet. And heavier? Near useless high back? WTF? All you do is shit on Union. It's sad.


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## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

I haven't ridden a Union highback I could drive into. Straight back sure, but that's not much. Drive into the side of it and they fold.

Who really has problems with what you call dual stage ratchets slipping that much? I don't. The only reason they use those ratchets is cause it costs money to move away from their Drake molds.

Tons of foam? Sure ride does that. Harshmellow is different and doesn't interfere with board feel. Airbags improve board feel. B3 Gel is just as thick as standard foam and improves dampening.

Ankle strap that you have to loosen and tighten all day. Oh good cause I hate not having to tweak my shit constantly. That makes sense.

Great you fucking like them a lot. All I'm trying to say is that the chances are stacked against them for majority of riders. But I guess that makes me a hater.

Also Union hardware backs out. Don't try to argue, none of my other bindings have done it as much and again, I've owned three sets of Unions.


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## BurtonAvenger (Aug 14, 2007)

Extremo said:


> From someone who's ridden them for years, and have tried to replace them with something new numerous time, only to be dissapointed, I've seen you just nitpick Union. For example, the toe ratchet is single stage, so it sticks a little when you release it. But the upside to the single stage is they don't skip as they tighten, the way dual stage ratchets do, and they're smooth unlike multiple mechanism ratchets. Union has dampening, but not an over abundance of it, so you have more board feel, while other companies just stick an inch of foam under your feet. The ankle straps are firm and can cause pressure points when left strapped tight all day, but in turn they're responsive unlike other straps that compromise performance for comfort with garbage that feels like marshmellow strapped to your feet. And heavier? Near useless high back? WTF? All you do is shit on Union. It's sad.


Why don't you just admit the toe ratchet is the exact same one Drake has been using since the mid 90's that is problematic and the springs blow out on. Then add that they just utilize a new colorway to "add tech". Their straps aren't responsive their minimalistic which isn't always a blessing for people that need something more. 

Here's the thing about Union they love all the ball cuppers like you but the second you give any form of constructive criticism you are the hater and the one with the problem. Mediocrity coupled with amazing marketing is what keeps that brand alive. 

K2> Union and that's a fact. k2 has more money for R and D for a reason they make a better product.


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## Extremo (Nov 6, 2008)

Union > K2 and thats a fact. Every binding has it's trade off's. I've tried plenty of hyped bindings, from the 390, Flux SF45's, Burton Cartel's, Ride Rodeos, and I could find problems with each that Union takes the cake over. Nothing mind blowing, tech wise, is changing the binding industry. Union is basic, non-bullshit. In the end it's a matter of quality and performance. And Union clearly has both.


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## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

Extremo said:


> Union > K2 and thats a fact. Every binding has it's trade off's. I've tried plenty of hyped bindings, from the 390, Flux SF45's, Burton Cartel's, Ride Rodeos, and I could find problems with each that Union takes the cake over. Nothing mind blowing, tech wise, is changing the binding industry. Union is basic, non-bullshit. In the end it's a matter of quality and performance. And Union clearly has both.


So what's gimmicky about K2? Auto works. Cinch? Yes, agreed. Harshmellow? Not even a little bit, if you've ridden it you know... So what's left? Canting? They have the hinged ankle strap but find me one person that DOESN'T like that. Uhhhhhh, yeah can't think of much else. Better toe straps, ratchet gates that make it near impossible to not feed the ladders right, mostly tool less, light, you can get to the mounting bolts without a screwdriver, what bolts they have don't back out, you can push into their highbacks... Seriously K2 makes some of the best bindings out there. Formula > Force. Indy > DLX. Company > SL. National > Contacts.

I don't get this. Go to EasyLoungin if you want people to agree that Union shits rainbows.


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## Grasschopper (Jan 7, 2010)

Add another vote against Union. I bought my son (9 yrs old at the time) Union Contacts last year after hearing some positive things here. The bindings seemed good and were easy to set up but at the end of the season (maybe 20 days on them) the return spring in one of the toe ratchets failed. I took them to my local board shop and they contacted Union who sent out a new ratchet under warranty. The new ratchet is a different color and shape (from a different model maybe?) but works so it's on there. Then this year one of the tabs that holds the footbed on the base broke off and now the screw that holds the heal strap on the right binding keeps coming loose (like 3 times in 4 hours). These bindings have less than 30 half days (he never rides more than 4 hours or so) on them and have been ridden by a kids...no jumping, no jibbing, no park...i.e. no abuse.

I can't imagnien how fast these things would have fallen apart with someone actually using them in the park and riding them often and hard. I've loctited the loose screw and will be giving the bindings to my sister in law who rides like once a year (if that)...they should last her a while at her rate of usage.

Long story short, I won't ever buy another Union binding.


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## Extremo (Nov 6, 2008)

There's your problem, you bought the Contacts. If you buy price poing bindings, you'll get a price point performance. Should have went with the contact pro's or the force. Again, I'm 6 seasons on the same Force with no problems.


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## Grasschopper (Jan 7, 2010)

Extremo said:


> There's your problem, you bought the Contacts. If you buy price poing bindings, you'll get a price point performance. Should have went with the contact pro's or the force. Again, I'm 6 seasons on the same Force with no problems.


The Contact is a $180 binding...I would think for $180 you could get a quality product. Now the Flite...that is more of a price point product to me...but honestly they seem to share a lot of parts now that I know more about them. :thumbsdown:


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## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

Extremo said:


> There's your problem, you bought the Contacts. If you buy price poing bindings, you'll get a price point performance. Should have went with the contact pro's or the force. Again, I'm 6 seasons on the same Force with no problems.


Contacts aren't price point. What, you think that paying more means they don't use the same mechanism in the ratchets? They do. The Pros get a "better" lever, but the guts are identical. So that's not going to fix anything. Bolts backing out. They both claim 8.8 hardware, so no difference there. The only things that changes between the Pro and Contact he didn't have problems with. He had issues with all the fundamentals of the construction.

Great YOU haven't had any issues. You're the lucky one. Great YOU like them. WE don't. Are you also gonna say that if you don't like pineapple on your pizza your just a pineapple hater or you just need to get some more expensive pizza? That's the logic you have going on right now.

Seriously price point is like DLX, Indy's, Customs, Flite 2's, PR15's... Contacts run $180 and Forces run $200. You really think $20 makes a binding price point?


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## jdang307 (Feb 6, 2011)

Nivek said:


> Contacts aren't price point. What, you think that paying more means they don't use the same mechanism in the ratchets? They do. The Pros get a "better" lever, but the guts are identical. So that's not going to fix anything. Bolts backing out. They both claim 8.8 hardware, so no difference there. The only things that changes between the Pro and Contact he didn't have problems with. He had issues with all the fundamentals of the construction.
> 
> Great YOU haven't had any issues. You're the lucky one. Great YOU like them. WE don't. Are you also gonna say that if you don't like pineapple on your pizza your just a pineapple hater or you just need to get some more expensive pizza? That's the logic you have going on right now.
> 
> Seriously price point is like DLX, Indy's, Customs, Flite 2's, PR15's... Contacts run $180 and Forces run $200. You really think $20 makes a binding price point?


That weak argument makes it sound as if he'll defend Union no matter what. Seriously, $20? Was thinking about trying Unions this year. But if what they pulled at SIA is true, they're just pussies. Forget it.


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## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

jdang307 said:


> That weak argument makes it sound as if he'll defend Union no matter what. Seriously, $20? Was thinking about trying Unions this year. But if what they pulled at SIA is true, they're just pussies. Forget it.


What were you thinking of trying?


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## Extremo (Nov 6, 2008)

This year they're $180, Contacts of the past were $160 and didn't have the strap upgrades they do this year. They've traditionally been a price point park binding, with downgrades on the baseplate, straps, highback, and hardware. 

Again, 2 pairs of forces, 6 and 3 season's old, and a pair of SL's and all solid to this day, and Cartels, Flux, Technine, and K2 Auto's didn't compare to the performance. Until I find something better, ya I'm going to defend Union...it's only fucking logical.


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## jdang307 (Feb 6, 2011)

Nivek said:


> What were you thinking of trying?


Union Contact Pro. Looking for a more responsive binding but not a stiff freerider.

Raiden Phantoms/Blackhawks
Union Contact Pro
Burton Cartel restricted (only because I liked the Malavitas)

I like K2 but looking for a different binding. I have the uprises, not sure I'm in love with them. They're good though. I don't have it adjusted just right, but with a Tahoe trip coming up I'll need to work on that if I don't get new ones by then.


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## Extremo (Nov 6, 2008)

You if you want something stiffer than the Contact Pro, go with the Atlas. It doesn't have that loose feel of the Contact baseplate. My buddy rides Phantoms and he loves them. Solid, simple and quality construction.


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## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

jdang307 said:


> Union Contact Pro. Looking for a more responsive binding but not a stiff freerider.
> 
> Raiden Phantoms/Blackhawks
> Union Contact Pro
> ...


For all mountain, all mountain/freestyle, and responsive park, the Phantoms are one of the best bindings on the market.


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## BurtonAvenger (Aug 14, 2007)

Extremo said:


> Union > K2 and thats a fact. Every binding has it's trade off's. I've tried plenty of hyped bindings, from the 390, Flux SF45's, Burton Cartel's, Ride Rodeos, and I could find problems with each that Union takes the cake over. Nothing mind blowing, tech wise, is changing the binding industry. Union is basic, non-bullshit. In the end it's a matter of quality and performance. And Union clearly has both.





Extremo said:


> This year they're $180, Contacts of the past were $160 and didn't have the strap upgrades they do this year. They've traditionally been a price point park binding, with downgrades on the baseplate, straps, highback, and hardware.
> 
> Again, 2 pairs of forces, 6 and 3 season's old, and a pair of SL's and all solid to this day, and Cartels, Flux, Technine, and K2 Auto's didn't compare to the performance. Until I find something better, ya I'm going to defend Union...it's only fucking logical.



Kind of confused you've tried what 4 to 6 bindings that's it? But still rock something from 6 years ago when they first came out and were in a different factory if my memory serves. 

Inflation it's amazing how things go up 20 dollars in price.

Union is basic crap that falls apart. K2>Union and that's a fact numbers sold don't lie the core community might be all gung ho over the marketing but the bread and butter is the people on this forum that ride 10 days a year and they're buying the Burtons, K2's, Flows, Rides, etc. etc. 

All for different strokes for different folks but blind fanboy fanaticism is bullshit. Go ride something more than 2 runs at a public demo and you might see, then again that might mean taking your old crusty bindings off a board and someone might mistake them for fisher price and throw them away.


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## Extremo (Nov 6, 2008)

See that's the difference between industry whores and those of us who actually have to buy our gear. We're not going to slam a company just because we don't like that it's popular. I've purchased several bindings, many at the recommendation of forum members, and have committed myself to riding them because I spent a decent amount of money. And each time I've gone back to my Unions. And I can go back to my Unions, because they're still in great working order. So when I hear knocks on them that are bullshit I'm going to call bullshit. And of all companies, you choose K2 to compare? Look at the fucking formula, and you're going to call union basic and mediocre. Your head is clearly up your ass.


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## eer5000 (Jan 11, 2012)

oefdevilvet said:


> Never used either one because parks don't really appeal to me, but in my neck of the woods, I've seen a lot more people with Contacts. The only universal complaint I hear about Unions is their toecaps suck, and I've heard on this forum that some people are actually changing the toecaps out with Burton parts, other than that Union seems to make good bindings overall. Nationals I can't help you with, I've neither owned a K2 binding, nor seen anyone in my circle using them. I know K2 makes good equipment but the only thing I buy from them is boots.


I have a couple of pairs of unions, and I have an easy way to get rid of the toe cap problem.

When they are new and adjusted for the boots, I do up the bindings with the boots in and leave them overnight somewhere warm in the house. After I do that, I am guessing that the heat helps them stretch/fit the boot and I haven't had a problem with them after that.


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## BurtonAvenger (Aug 14, 2007)

Extremo said:


> See that's the difference between industry whores and those of us who actually have to buy our gear. We're not going to slam a company just because we don't like that it's popular. I've purchased several bindings, many at the recommendation of forum members, and have committed myself to riding them because I spent a decent amount of money. And each time I've gone back to my Unions. And I can go back to my Unions, because they're still in great working order. So when I hear knocks on them that are bullshit I'm going to call bullshit. And of all companies, you choose K2 to compare? Look at the fucking formula, and you're going to call union basic and mediocre. Your head is clearly up your ass.


Industry whores would be all the ball cupping douche bags that get freebies from Union and won't tell them that there's shit to fix on their bindings. I could have probably gone that route with them if I didn't think the bindings sucked ass. 

Toe cap is a joke finally fixed that going into what is it year 7 now? 7 years to fix a simple thing of making the toe slit bigger so it would cup the toe box of a boot more. How about they put a little fucking loctite on their heel cup and highback screws so that they don't back out. Is it too hard to put a canted footpad cover in a binding? Riders are getting older knees need a little more love. Now why is it the heel strap is quick release but the toe strap has a screw? Is it so fucking hard to put a little quick release on the toe? And then there's the ratchets I'm not even going to go there it's too obvious.

Have you even looked at a Formula? Seriously look at it that binding has evolved so much in just the last 5 years. Now if you want to compare a Union to the Indy go for it that's the old Formula mold dropped down in price to the 159 or 169 price range can't remember since they're usually always sold for 139.99. In that you get adjustable toe ramp, disk cover, and a meat and potatos binding. Sure it lost the hinged heel strap and the caddy strap was down graded to the one before that but still price drop for a binding that 99% of the people will not have a problem with. 

Any company worth a damn that anyone deals with will listen to people giving constructive criticism when they don't they become arrogant full of themselves douche bags that only want to hear about how their the end all be all while rainbows and unicorns fly out their ass. There's always room for progression unfortunately some people can't hear that because the voices of the fluffy bunny huggers drown out the truth. 

Also if your unions are so good why do you keep buying new stuff. Doesn't make sense there bucko if they're so absolutely fucking perfect why upgrade at all? I know I've had bindings I've used for multiple hundred day seasons and didn't bother buying new ones because they get the job done.

Why don't you fucking think before you post dipshit troglodytes like you should go back and paint on your cave walls.


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## Extremo (Nov 6, 2008)

Yeah I've looked at the fucking Formula, since the only shops in the area only carry Burton and K2 I've been looking at them for too damn long. I have to drive 45 mins to the nearest dealer carrying anything else. The formula is nothing special, as is the Force, and that's my point. It's a basic, quality binding that doesn't have any gimmicks built into them. 

Union has made plenty of upgrades over the years, so maybe you just haven't been paying attention, who knows. When the original toe strap was getting shredded in the front, they fixed it, when the toe ratchet was popping loose, they redesigned it. When the cap strap wasn't capped enough, they changed it. When people wanted more dampening on the footbed, they added it. When the ankle strap was too wide, they profiled it. Baseplates are solid, no change needed. Highbacks are solid, no change needed. Single stage ratchets are solid, no change needed. Forward lean adjustment are some of the best quick change I've ever used, no change needed. All the other shit, heel cup coming loose, bolts coming out, ratchets getting stuck, does it happen, I'm sure. But with 3 sets of Unions, I've never experienced any of them. Why this makes you so sad, I have no idea.


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## hikeswithdogs (Sep 23, 2011)

I've always had good experiences with K2 bindings and company support so no reason for me to change something that isn't broken, Burton makes some good binders to but the good ones are spendy.


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## Qball (Jun 22, 2010)

Rode K2 forumlas all of last year and most of this year and they are solid bindings. Tooless adjustments, great dampening, toe strap is awesome, heel strap gets a little uncomfortable on long days though. Great all mountain binding but overall it was a little stiff for my liking for park so I picked up a pair of Contact Pros.

Contact pros have a completely different feel to them, especially the baseplate. Lots of give laterally because of the EVA foam. Gives it sort of a "rolling" type feel. Toe strap works well with my boots, but it can be improved. The shape of the strap is just kind of weird and is too big really. I can definitely see it not working with boots with a more rounded toe.

Heel strap is solid and does its job. Have had the screws back out a little on the heel cup/heel strap but nothing major. Cranked em down and havent had any more issues. Ratchets have worked like they should and havent been sticky at all, no issues yet. 

I like the flatness of the high back, allows a lot of freedom side to side but is there when you need to drive into it. These definitely don't have as much dampening as the formulas but board feel is improved if thats what you are looking for.

Not going to lie, I actually kind of hated the Contact Pros the first day I rode them. After a few days on them though I really like them. Don't know how anyone could take just a few runs on a binding and judge it from that.


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## BurtonAvenger (Aug 14, 2007)

Extremo said:


> Why this makes you so sad, I have no idea.


Ha far from sad more amused at how pathetic you are that when someone has a difference of opinion you claim their a hater because you drink the kool-aid. Good for you your bindings suck. I'll continue to keep riding big boy non fisher price stuff.


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## Chris (Feb 6, 2012)

daveykim said:


> Hey Guys
> Just got me a Never Summer Evo (Mostly freestyle/mountain board).
> 
> so ive been looking into the k2 national and contact pros which are like equivalent freestyle orientated bindings.
> ...


actually my setup is the k2 fastplant and k2 nationals, i love Urethane backs, the harsh-mellow is very comfortable.It may take a few minutes to dial in your bindings(adjusting them to fit you. I love the very quick cinch binding system, get off the lift strap in one binding and your down the mountain. The only problem i have with them is when your unstrapping my foot sometimes gets stuck in the toe strap. Even though i would still go with the nationals


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## rader023 (Feb 2, 2010)

Hate to wade into this but I will give another opinion. I have two pairs of K2 Auto's (k2 drone and 2009 k2 auto, which are basically the same thing with different toe straps). I can honestly say they are the perfect bindings. Response, dampening, board feel, whatever is perfect. I also own Force Sl's. Even with ride toe straps installed they still sit in a box. Relegated to backup bindings. Since the K2's have never broke they are going to be there a while. I have also tried Rome and Burton bindings. K2 is still the best for me.


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## Extremo (Nov 6, 2008)

BurtonAvenger said:


> Ha far from sad more amused at how pathetic you are that when someone has a difference of opinion you claim their a hater because you drink the kool-aid. Good for you your bindings suck. I'll continue to keep riding big boy non fisher price stuff.


What are you retarded? Union's tech is all of a sudden fisherprice, but the new all-plastic switchbacks are solid? Fuck, who's going to listen to your bullshit reviews after saying shit like that. I figured you smartened up from your shit-head el snowboardo days, but you're still a bullshitting fucktard.


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## Grasschopper (Jan 7, 2010)

But anyway. I have emailed Union and am interested to see how long it will be before they respond. And when they respond what they can do for me if anything.


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## Leo (Nov 24, 2009)

To the OP:

If you are into jumps more, the K2 National might be the better option. This is because of their Harshmellow tech. I'm a fan of their Harshmellow tech in their boards, boots, and bindings. It just flat out works. It's very comfortable underfoot in the binding and board feel is fine. The dampening helps through chop, but my favorite aspect of it is how it feels on landings.


As for Union, I've admitted that my review of the Forces was rather antagonistic. However, it was misinterpreted by Johan (Nosetradamus) from Union. I was bitter towards the Union Mega Fans that absolutely destroyed every Flow binding thread there was. The bitterness came from the fact that Union was hyped to that point and after riding it myself, walked away feeling unsatisfied.

Johan went on a condescending tirade against me. He even let that spill over to my work email. I saw the Union tent guys at the demo days here and had a snide remark made at me. My fault there for not realizing what that comment meant until well after the fact.

He's supposed to represent the brand and this is how a reviewer gets treated for pointing out legit flaws? Yea, I'm a weekend warrior. Nowhere on BA's riding level or many of the people who read my reviews here and on agnarchy. But I am fairly knowledgeable about gear and the way they should handle. Flat out, Union bindings have a problem with their toe straps and toe ratchets. As seen here, I am not alone in my thoughts. 

That's what baffles me about Johan's attitude. From what I can tell, he has influence in that company. Union can be a better binding. They are a binding only company (Capita doesn't count). The complaints are rather simple fixes. Give some more dampening/canting options, re-engineer the toe ratchets, redesign the toe straps... They use a very high quality plastic to construct their bindings, so why not have the whole binding match this quality?

Instead, criticism is received very poorly and criticizers are deemed haters. They come back at you with comments like "Temple Cummins rides our bindings without us ever asking him to". Basically put, they don't give two shits about what you think unless you throwing down double cork to triple panda fucks.


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## BurtonAvenger (Aug 14, 2007)

Extremo said:


> What are you retarded? Union's tech is all of a sudden fisherprice, but the new all-plastic switchbacks are solid? Fuck, who's going to listen to your bullshit reviews after saying shit like that. I figured you smartened up from your shit-head el snowboardo days, but you're still a bullshitting fucktard.


Is calling someone a retard the only comeback you have? Never said Switchback wasn't Fisher Price I'm reserving my opinions till I actually ride them but that's something you can't comprehend doing as in your world there is no way to actually demo something. Everyone must pay full price. Fucking logic it's amazing try it sometime.

Someones really butt hurt they got called out for sipping kool-aid but I guess I should have told your mom to wipe the semen off your chin from sucking the Union balls and shaft. It's OK lil guy I know you're upset you can't snowboard cause the east coasts season never even started and you're upset that you're too stupid to go to demo days to try stuff or even use real logic to figure things out. 

Don't be mad because we called you out for what you were and showed giant loop holes in your logic. And I stress YOUR logic.


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## onefutui2e (Jan 25, 2011)

BurtonAvenger said:


> Is calling someone a retard the only comeback you have? Never said Switchback wasn't Fisher Price I'm reserving my opinions till I actually ride them but that's something you can't comprehend doing as in your world there is no way to actually demo something. Everyone must pay full price. Fucking logic it's amazing try it sometime.
> 
> Someones really butt hurt they got called out for sipping kool-aid but I guess I should have told your mom to wipe the semen off your chin from sucking the Union balls and shaft. It's OK lil guy I know you're upset you can't snowboard cause the east coasts season never even started and you're upset that you're too stupid to go to demo days to try stuff or even use real logic to figure things out.
> 
> Don't be mad because we called you out for what you were and showed giant loop holes in your logic. And I stress YOUR logic.


that east coast comment was totally unnecessary! though if you drive far enough up north deeper into bumblefuck vermont and maine the season is hitting those mountains pretty decently. but still, between not being able to take vacation days to fly out due to a big project at work and the lack of a real season 5 hours outside of NYC you're just adding salt to wounds 

anyway, good information from BA and Nivek on bindings; it gave me a very good starting point to look at other stuff (just for fun...for now). 

i used union contacts from last year (Extremo, they were $180 in 2011 too) and i hated the toe strap and ratchet so i swapped them out to the burton caps. made a world of difference in comfort, convenience, and (maybe) performance. i heard there were improvements this year but shop folk told me they're still not fans of it. 

after about 40 days on the contacts i noticed the ankle strap was starting to bite into my boot more creating pressure so now they've been fully relegated to backups. been using ride rodeos since and it's been pretty good to me so far, the foam footbed is a little weird but seems to be doing a fine job...can Nivek or BA provide some feedback in comparison to Harshmellows in K2's lineup?


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## BurtonAvenger (Aug 14, 2007)

Ride uses an EVA foam as a dampener over that big metal baseplate of theres. There's minimal air pockets as well. No where near as damp as Harshmellow. I'm a firm believer in harshmellow after having it in my boots for 5 years and bindings for 2.


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## rader023 (Feb 2, 2010)

I am not sure what to compare, but I had a blown ACL and multiple cartilage tears and Harshmellow allows me to board with less pain then Union or Rome or Burton dampening. So i would say it works good. Also have a k2 Slayblade with harshmellow and I wish I still had my Turbo Dream with Harshmellow.


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## snowklinger (Aug 30, 2011)

Do different K2 bindings have different amounts of harshmellow?


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## BurtonAvenger (Aug 14, 2007)

It kind of comes down to the amount of canting and thickness of the footbed. If you go into a shop you can plainly see that the National is thicker than the others because it has the 3 degree cant.


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## Grasschopper (Jan 7, 2010)

UPDATE: 24hrs and not a peep from Union. Awesome customer service...no.


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## Qball (Jun 22, 2010)

Grasschopper said:


> UPDATE: 24hrs and not a peep from Union. Awesome customer service...no.


Call or live chat with C3


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## Extremo (Nov 6, 2008)

Qball said:


> Call or live chat with C3


Haha...good luck with that. You need to take it to a shop and they'll call the local rep to take care of it. In the mean time, don't hold your breath.


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## Grasschopper (Jan 7, 2010)

Qball said:


> Call or live chat with C3


I tried the live chat yesterday and no one ever responded...kept saying that all reps were busy and someone would be with me soon.



Extremo said:


> Haha...good luck with that. You need to take it to a shop and they'll call the local rep to take care of it. In the mean time, don't hold your breath.


I took it to my local Union dealer once and they got Union to send a replacement buckle under warranty. Wrong color and doesn't work nearly as smoothly as the original ratchet mechanism. Honestly I would rather communicate directly with Union.

Edit: just tried again and am on with "RS1"...hoping for some positive outcome.


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## SnowBrdScotty (Apr 4, 2009)

Johan lost his toe strap when riding - true story


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## Leo (Nov 24, 2009)

SnowBrdScotty said:


> Johan lost his toe strap when riding - true story


Wow, out of no where SnowBrdScotty makes a post! Been a good minute since I've seen you post lol.


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## Grasschopper (Jan 7, 2010)

Ok so will now give Union customer service some props. Just finished an online chat and after sending some photos was told that they would send out some new footbeds.

I'm still not overly happy with the quality of the bindings but their customer service just moved up a notch in my mind.


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## daveykim (Jan 5, 2012)

oh my
simply question turned into debate turned into i am more lost then ever hahah
i dont have the luxury/resources to try out a lot of them.

but ive narrowed it down to these

ride rodeo
flux tt30 (or sr15)
k2 nationals
raiden zero (or phantoms)

fun fact is for the last 15 rides, my booots back has never ever touched the highback. aka skateboard style. so i think i am looking for a mid flex 4-6. 

hopefully i can pick one soon^^


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## jdang307 (Feb 6, 2011)

Can you get to a shop to try the K2 Nationals? On my old boots the Auto toe straps worked fine (Nike Kaiju). On my new boots (thirtytwo lashed) they suck. I liked them a lot, until I got the Lashed. I have to keep tweaking them, maybe I'll change my mind.


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## Leo (Nov 24, 2009)

jdang307 said:


> Can you get to a shop to try the K2 Nationals? On my old boots the Auto toe straps worked fine (Nike Kaiju). On my new boots (thirtytwo lashed) they suck. I liked them a lot, until I got the Lashed. I have to keep tweaking them, maybe I'll change my mind.


What year is your auto binding? You can adjust the fit of the auto straps now so fitment shouldn't be an issue.


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## jdang307 (Feb 6, 2011)

Leo said:


> What year is your auto binding? You can adjust the fit of the auto straps now so fitment shouldn't be an issue.


2011. Yes I know it can adjust, but I haven't figured out how to do it well on the Lashed. It worked fine on the Kaiju's, but the weird, wide/flat front of the lashed are giving me trouble. I'll have to tackle it again.


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## Chris (Feb 6, 2012)

jdang307 said:


> Can you get to a shop to try the K2 Nationals? On my old boots the Auto toe straps worked fine (Nike Kaiju). On my new boots (thirtytwo lashed) they suck. I liked them a lot, until I got the Lashed. I have to keep tweaking them, maybe I'll change my mind.


i would assume so. the people at my local shop are amazing at what they do, they let me take out the nationals for a trip.


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