# union bindings screws loose all the time



## MMSlasher

I haven't had a problem losing any screws, but on my back foot's toe strap, the tool less screw has popped up around 3-4 times. I'm just thinking that my boot somehow hit it open, so I just keep an eye out for it every time I strap in. Maybe put a little loctite on all the screws.


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## Nivek

Just take a look through Unions Instagram. Loosening bolts is the number one complaint I get from Union and the number one reason I replace parts on Unions. It's a problem. A problem a binding only company shouldn't be having.


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## Argo

There was just a thread on this. Use some Loctite, we use the blue Loctite.


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## Argo

Nivek said:


> Just take a look through Unions Instagram. Loosening bolts is the number one complaint I get from Union and the number one reason I replace parts on Unions. It's a problem. A problem a binding only company shouldn't be having.


I think I saw you talking about Nitro bindings on a thread some where but could not find them. What is your feelings on them. I was thinking about grabbing some for my kid but he is a big strong rider at 200 lbs/6' and the mini disks have always scared me. Think large jump lines and 20-40' drops while free riding. 

I was scoping out the Team and the phantoms.....

Our gold standard has been union but figured we would try something else out....


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## larrytbull

Nivek said:


> Just take a look through Unions Instagram. Loosening bolts is the number one complaint I get from Union and the number one reason I replace parts on Unions. It's a problem. A problem a binding only company shouldn't be having.


It's good to see I'm not the only one, but as you clearly point out they only make one thing. And it should be rock solid.
Funny how they don't seem to get this. As when I called their support they did not seem to think this was a design flaw. They just told me to tighten them each time my son rides....total fail on design. My flows nor his k2. Or ride bindings ever lost screws. This is a serious issue. As it could have gotten him hurt while riding rails or jumps and having strap pop out. Gonna pop some vc3. As the replacement hardware had blue loc tite. But still got loose


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## neptune0623

Just got done snowboarding at Keystone for a week. I had the exact same issue with my forces - the ankle strap Phillips head screw kept coming loose. I had to tighten it twice at the top of the lift.

Many people are calling this a design flaw. I'm not so sure about that. Don't they have blue loctite preapplied? Threads are pretty standard, I'm not sure how much more they can do to prevent a screw from coming loose besides torquing it down tighter.


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## robotfood99

I was stomping the board to shake some snow off before strapping the back foot in. While I was doing this the back binding's ankle strap bolt came undone and flew off into the snow. All my friends had set off already so I had to dig around looking for the screw for half an hour. 

The screws on my Unions engage abruptly, not gradually. Gradual engagement allows more feel for how tight a screw is but if it bites abruptly, it's either on or off. Not sure why this is but its an issue, and a silly one at that because it seems it can be addressed relatively easily.


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## Nivek

The reason it's a problem is that it isn't a problem for pretty much every other brand. And there are a bunch of different things you can do to prevent this. Take Ride. They use a square head bolt that seats into the strap. The only way to tighten or loosen is the rotate the whole strap. Which means while mounted you pretty much have zero chance of it ever coming loose enough to fall off since the whole thing has to rotate past your board. Or Flux. They're bolts are all tool-less and have little flaps you fold down with catches to keep them from spinning. Then Flow, if you look at the underside of the bolt heads the surface is waved and the washer is waved so you have "notches".

There are many solutions to this problem. And when you consider how brands like Flux and Ride do it, you also get the benefit of the system being tool-less. For a brand that touts "we only make bindings", they sure dont seem to innovate all that much and have had a history of less than stellar part designs.


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## UNION_INHOUSE

Nivek said:


> The reason it's a problem is that it isn't a problem for pretty much every other brand. And there are a bunch of different things you can do to prevent this. Take Ride. They use a square head bolt that seats into the strap. The only way to tighten or loosen is the rotate the whole strap. Which means while mounted you pretty much have zero chance of it ever coming loose enough to fall off since the whole thing has to rotate past your board. Or Flux. They're bolts are all tool-less and have little flaps you fold down with catches to keep them from spinning. Then Flow, if you look at the underside of the bolt heads the surface is waved and the washer is waved so you have "notches".
> 
> There are many solutions to this problem. And when you consider how brands like Flux and Ride do it, you also get the benefit of the system being tool-less. For a brand that touts "we only make bindings", they sure dont seem to innovate all that much and have had a history of less than stellar part designs.


Always bagging on Union. You should start a new binding brand Kevin. It's super easy!


We always encourage people to tighten their hardware every day before riding. Loctite is the answer, but please let it dry before putting the screws back in. 

Consider how many bindings we have on snow. 13 years on the market. We are bound to have handfuls of customers who need to loctite their hardware. Apologies to anybody who's had any "out of the ordinary" issues with this stuff.


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## larrytbull

UNION_INHOUSE said:


> Always bagging on Union. You should start a new binding brand Kevin. It's super easy!
> 
> 
> We always encourage people to tighten their hardware every day before riding. Loctite is the answer, but please let it dry before putting the screws back in.
> 
> Consider how many bindings we have on snow. 13 years on the market. We are bound to have handfuls of customers who need to loctite their hardware. Apologies to anybody who's had any "out of the ordinary" issues with this stuff.


UNION_INHOUSE

First the good,
your customer service was responsive and sent new hardware ASAP. My Son also loves these bindings on how they perform, as well as how light they are

but now the bad
Not to burst your bubble, but these bindings were less than 2 weeks on snow (4 days) when first screw popped out luckily they were able to find it and rescrew it in. then 1 week later same thing happend. same thing found screw retightened. but then 3rd time, whole thing went couldnt find the hardware. This is more than a coincendance (these were 2015-2016 model) and also based on the feedback here and on the snow. it seems my son was not the only one with issue. Perhaps you may want to revisit the design, as this seems to be an issue and make what is a great binding, all that better, as well as more reliable.
no other binding that we have owned has ever needed the screws tightened each ride. THIS IS AN ISSUE

hopefully this is taken in the right context, which is a constructive one and the newer models get a tweak to make them better

my .02 cents


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## ekb18c

Some people take criticism as constructive criticism and try to improve thier product while others just take it as just criticism.

It's not what went wrong but how you react as the face of Union. 

That little dig at Nivek might seem fun but isn't very productive. From his experience it seems like this is a common thing. I myself witness a few failures from the toe screws coming completely off or the ankle ones coming off. It's strange but mostly friends with unions have this issue but no one out of my circle had these issues with other bindings.

Sure, everyone should check the screws before they go out but only for union owners? 

This sounds like what Apple did when they said 'You are holding the phone the wrong way'. Look what happened? They took the constructive criticism and gave free bumpers for everyone who had a problem and then improved on their design of the antenna.

Don't get me wrong, I love my union bindings as I have multiple pairs and multiple years of the same binding but your little dig back at Nivek is not doing you any favors with your image. It makes me, as a customer, feel that Union doesn't care or listen to their customers. 

If that's the case I am more than happy to take my business and money to other companies. 

Just my $.02


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## Nivek

UNION_INHOUSE said:


> Always bagging on Union. You should start a new binding brand Kevin. It's super easy!
> 
> 
> We always encourage people to tighten their hardware every day before riding. Loctite is the answer, but please let it dry before putting the screws back in.
> 
> Consider how many bindings we have on snow. 13 years on the market. We are bound to have handfuls of customers who need to loctite their hardware. Apologies to anybody who's had any "out of the ordinary" issues with this stuff.


George, I try not to. In fact I should have stated Union has made marked improvements the last few years that I have been stoked on. The new toe straps are solid, all the new frames are solid. The Contact Pro and Atlas are great bindings. But I won't sugarcoat what I see, and I see more Union bolt issues than anyone else combined. We only replace a similar number of parts of one brand, Burton. And we both know they have a significant majority of bindings on hill. I never said starting a binding brand was easy, and I've never insinuated that running was either. But as you stated, you're in year 13, by now I expect a brand to have a better solution to bolts backing out than "put on more loctite and tighten the he'll out of em". You are putting the burden on the consumer, not yourself. I'll say again, I only see this as an issue with Union because it isn't with everyone else. There are simple solutions that give you zero drawbacks. I have also offered my services more than once to Union to improve any of the issues I talk about. I would also like to remind everyone I rode Union exclusively for 3 years. Had Forces, Data's, Force SLs, and Contacts. I now own Ride, K2, Rome, Flow, Flux, Burton, and Salomon. I have yet to touch any of their bolts.


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## UNION_INHOUSE

ekb18c said:


> Some people take criticism as constructive criticism and try to improve thier product while others just take it as just criticism.
> 
> It's not what went wrong but how you react as the face of Union.
> 
> That little dig at Nivek might seem fun but isn't very productive. From his experience it seems like this is a common thing. I myself witness a few failures from the toe screws coming completely off or the ankle ones coming off. It's strange but mostly friends with unions have this issue but no one out of my circle had these issues with other bindings.
> 
> Sure, everyone should check the screws before they go out but only for union owners?
> 
> This sounds like what Apple did when they said 'You are holding the phone the wrong way'. Look what happened? They took the constructive criticism and gave free bumpers for everyone who had a problem and then improved on their design of the antenna.
> 
> Don't get me wrong, I love my union bindings as I have multiple pairs and multiple years of the same binding but your little dig back at Nivek is not doing you any favors with your image. It makes me, as a customer, feel that Union doesn't care or listen to their customers.
> 
> If that's the case I am more than happy to take my business and money to other companies.
> 
> Just my $.02


First of all, thank you for the support. I guess I was only trying to solve the OP's current problem, instead of "yeah we are working on it". 

But yes, we are working on it! I can give you reasons and excuses, but I don't think that's super productive either. 

One thing I'd like to say though, is everybody should check their hardware before they go shred - regardless of the brand. 

Lastly, I've always thought the good thing forums like SBF, is people can communicate directly with designers & company people making the products they use. It's a casual setting. I've never been that good at political correctness. My "dig" at Kevin, wasn't meant to start anything. I was only joking.


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## UNION_INHOUSE

Nivek said:


> George, I try not to. In fact I should have stated Union has made marked improvements the last few years that I have been stoked on. The new toe straps are solid, all the new frames are solid. The Contact Pro and Atlas are great bindings. But I won't sugarcoat what I see, and I see more Union bolt issues than anyone else combined. We only replace a similar number of parts of one brand, Burton. And we both know they have a significant majority of bindings on hill. I never said starting a binding brand was easy, and I've never insinuated that running was either. But as you stated, you're in year 13, by now I expect a brand to have a better solution to bolts backing out than "put on more loctite and tighten the he'll out of em". You are putting the burden on the consumer, not yourself. I'll say again, I only see this as an issue with Union because it isn't with everyone else. There are simple solutions that give you zero drawbacks. I have also offered my services more than once to Union to improve any of the issues I talk about. I would also like to remind everyone I rode Union exclusively for 3 years. Had Forces, Data's, Force SLs, and Contacts. I now own Ride, K2, Rome, Flow, Flux, Burton, and Salomon. I have yet to touch any of their bolts.


Noted.

FYI - 90% of our focus right now is on straps. Bolts are included in that focus.


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## UNION_INHOUSE

larrytbull said:


> UNION_INHOUSE
> 
> First the good,
> your customer service was responsive and sent new hardware ASAP. My Son also loves these bindings on how they perform, as well as how light they are
> 
> but now the bad
> Not to burst your bubble, but these bindings were less than 2 weeks on snow (4 days) when first screw popped out luckily they were able to find it and rescrew it in. then 1 week later same thing happend. same thing found screw retightened. but then 3rd time, whole thing went couldnt find the hardware. This is more than a coincendance (these were 2015-2016 model) and also based on the feedback here and on the snow. it seems my son was not the only one with issue. Perhaps you may want to revisit the design, as this seems to be an issue and make what is a great binding, all that better, as well as more reliable.
> no other binding that we have owned has ever needed the screws tightened each ride. THIS IS AN ISSUE
> 
> hopefully this is taken in the right context, which is a constructive one and the newer models get a tweak to make them better
> 
> my .02 cents


Sorry for the hassle. 

Can you tell me what model/color/size these 15/16's are?


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## larrytbull

black. size m/l
code 153051-3
contact pro

Sent from my SM-N920P using Tapatalk


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## ekb18c

UNION_INHOUSE said:


> First of all, thank you for the support. I guess I was only trying to solve the OP's current problem, instead of "yeah we are working on it".
> 
> But yes, we are working on it! I can give you reasons and excuses, but I don't think that's super productive either.
> 
> One thing I'd like to say though, is everybody should check their hardware before they go shred - regardless of the brand.
> 
> Lastly, I've always thought the good thing forums like SBF, is people can communicate directly with designers & company people making the products they use. It's a casual setting. I've never been that good at political correctness. My "dig" at Kevin, wasn't meant to start anything. I was only joking.


Good to hear that the issue is being worked on, hopefully it will be resolved shortly. Appreciate the response as it was effective in deescalating the issue.


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## Nivek

UNION_INHOUSE said:


> Noted.
> 
> FYI - 90% of our focus right now is on straps. Bolts are included in that focus.


That's fantastic and I genuinely look forward to what you have in the works, and again, if you need someone to ride the hell out of something I am more than willing to rip something and send it back, I genuinely enjoy helping anyone that wants my help. And don't take this as an accusation on Union directly, but I have noticed with most the brands I deal with that they have their "team" of people that ride their stuff for feedback. Which is all well and good as you can rely on them for consistent effort, but at the same time if they've been on Union and Union alone for 8 years they're probably product blind. Like not showering for 6 days and being unaware you smell. Same idea. I've tried to push that on brand's a little harder, that they should be seeking out a few different people every now and again that DON'T ride their stuff already to get a fresh view. It's hard cause you first have to find someone that can separate "I like" from "this is a good product". Just a thought though.


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## neptune0623

I figured out why the ankle strap screw keeps coming loose all the time. To clarify, by ankle strap, I mean the strap with the padding and ratchet attached to it.

After tightening this down, I realized that by rotating it counter clockwise (the same direction that loosens a screw), the screw moves - and therefore loosens - with it! 

These are brand new 2017 Force bindings. I can upload a video if anyone needs clarification.

I'd like other members to try this if they have time - after making sure your ankle strap is tight, go ahead and spin it counterclockwise (with the screw head facing you). You will find that the bolt loosens with it as the ankle strap spins.

This is an issue because as we all know, we are constantly rotating ankle straps while unstrapping or strapping in. It may not be as big of an issue with the front foot since that foot usually stays strapped in, but each time I get to the bottom of the run, I unstrap - thereby rotating the ankle strap. Same goes for when I strap in at the top of a run.

I really love these bindings but I don't know if this is an issue I can live with :/ I'm legitimately afraid this strap is going to come loose mid-run and I'm going to really mess myself up.


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## larrytbull

neptune0623 said:


> I figured out why the ankle strap screw keeps coming loose all the time. To clarify, by ankle strap, I mean the strap with the padding and ratchet attached to it.
> 
> After tightening this down, I realized that by rotating it counter clockwise (the same direction that loosens a screw), the screw moves - and therefore loosens - with it!
> 
> These are brand new 2017 Force bindings. I can upload a video if anyone needs clarification.
> 
> I'd like other members to try this if they have time - after making sure your ankle strap is tight, go ahead and spin it counterclockwise (with the screw head facing you). You will find that the bolt loosens with it as the ankle strap spins.
> 
> This is an issue because as we all know, we are constantly rotating ankle straps while unstrapping or strapping in. It may not be as big of an issue with the front foot since that foot usually stays strapped in, but each time I get to the bottom of the run, I unstrap - thereby rotating the ankle strap. Same goes for when I strap in at the top of a run.
> 
> I really love these bindings but I don't know if this is an issue I can live with :/ I'm legitimately afraid this strap is going to come loose mid-run and I'm going to really mess myself up.



this is exactly what caused me to start this thread. the issue is that the 2 washers that are meant to allow the strap to rotate are dragging on the screw head, since the female side is locked in and keyed with the square side the screw moves and un does itself, even with the loctite applied to the bolts. this is something any decent mechanical engineer should be able to solve. my son could have been injured badly as he was riding rails at the time it came undone


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## neptune0623

larrytbull said:


> this is exactly what caused me to start this thread. the issue is that the 2 washers that are meant to allow the strap to rotate are dragging on the screw head, since the female side is locked in and keyed with the square side the screw moves and un does itself, even with the loctite applied to the bolts. this is something any decent mechanical engineer should be able to solve. my son could have been injured badly as he was riding rails at the time it came undone


I feel really bad too, I just bought this pair of bindings. Luckily I haven't ridden them. I feel like I should return them, but no other pair of bindings has such quality materials besides these Union Forces. I was blown away by the quality and materials used. It's a shame they have this issue. Being a mechanical engineer myself, I know this issue can be solved and hopefully it will be in the future.


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## Nivek

neptune0623 said:


> I feel really bad too, I just bought this pair of bindings. Luckily I haven't ridden them. I feel like I should return them, but no other pair of bindings has such quality materials besides these Union Forces. I was blown away by the quality and materials used. It's a shame they have this issue. Being a mechanical engineer myself, I know this issue can be solved and hopefully it will be in the future.


What makes you think their materials are that far superior to anything else?


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## neptune0623

Nivek said:


> What makes you think their materials are that far superior to anything else?


The heelcup is extruded aluminum. The rest of the body seems to be a fairly high quality plastic.


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## Nivek

Union claims it's a better plastic specifically designed for cold weather. But until I see some independent testing I have no reason to think their nylon/fiber composite is really any measurably different than anyone elses. And the heelcups basically have to be made that way. Cast is too heavy and brittle for the application and milled is too expensive. Mag ratchets is mostly for marketing. Grade 8.8 hardware is great, but I don't have people snapping hardware like ever, so... necessary? Or marketing? 

Now don't take this as a cinistic view, they market their product extremely well, and what they use is certainly not any worse than industry standard.


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## neptune0623

Sadly I have decided to return. The employee I spoke with reported that he has also seen this issue, and that if I want to use these bindings I simply have to make sure I tighten them frequently while snowboarding. 

Can anyone recommend some good replacement bindings? I have had Cartels before, which were nice, but what happens if I need to adjust the binding for toe/heel overhang? With the Force I can adjust the heel cup, but with any other bindings I don't see a way to do it, specifically with the Cartels. Thanks.


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## ekb18c

neptune0623 said:


> Sadly I have decided to return. The employee I spoke with reported that he has also seen this issue, and that if I want to use these bindings I simply have to make sure I tighten them frequently while snowboarding.
> 
> Can anyone recommend some good replacement bindings? I have had Cartels before, which were nice, but what happens if I need to adjust the binding for toe/heel overhang? With the Force I can adjust the heel cup, but with any other bindings I don't see a way to do it, specifically with the Cartels. Thanks.


Burtons have the unibody design so you cannot adjust like that. 

Other bindings to try if you like the force / cartel feel and want to stay away from Union, would be the Rome Katana. If you need to adjust toe to heel you can always call burton's rider service to get the discs that were made specific for toe and heel adjustments.


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## speedjason

When I got my 2014 Force they had nylon washers between the screw and the strap and when you rotate the strap, it would loosen the screws.
What I did was I took the nylon washers out. It a looser fit but they are not loosening anymore.
The nylon washer is keeping the screws from bottoming out on the heel cup is whats causing the problem. I think what they are trying to do is to give a more premium feel so the ladders and straps kind of stay in place when not fastened.
Take the washers out, it's been tight for 3 years. I just recently replaced the ratchets on the back foot. The little springs broke so the ratchets would flop around but its normal wear and tear.


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## neptune0623

ekb18c said:


> Burtons have the unibody design so you cannot adjust like that.
> 
> Other bindings to try if you like the force / cartel feel and want to stay away from Union, would be the Rome Katana. If you need to adjust toe to heel you can always call burton's rider service to get the discs that were made specific for toe and heel adjustments.


Really appreciate the Rome Katana suggestion. That looks like such an awesome binding. I don't have much experience with Rome bindings...are they reputable? I noticed they have the heel cup adjustment too.

Thanks.


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## Nivek

speedjason said:


> Take the washers out, it's been tight for 3 years. I just recently replaced the ratchets on the back foot. The little springs broke so the ratchets would flop around but its normal wear and tear.



Out of curiosity, how many days a year are you getting? I ask because under the average snowboarder a ratchet spring should last way longer than 3 years.


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## Nivek

neptune0623 said:


> Sadly I have decided to return. The employee I spoke with reported that he has also seen this issue, and that if I want to use these bindings I simply have to make sure I tighten them frequently while snowboarding.
> 
> Can anyone recommend some good replacement bindings? I have had Cartels before, which were nice, but what happens if I need to adjust the binding for toe/heel overhang? With the Force I can adjust the heel cup, but with any other bindings I don't see a way to do it, specifically with the Cartels. Thanks.


Bent Metal Transfer, Arbor Cypress, Nitro Zero or Team, Rome DOD, or Ride Rodeo. You'd likely be happy in any of those.


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## speedjason

Nivek said:


> Out of curiosity, how many days a year are you getting? I ask because under the average snowboarder a ratchet spring should last way longer than 3 years.


About 20 per season so about 80 days total give or take.
Mind you my slope is pretty shorts so there is a lot of unstrap and strap. I am gonna say I probably do at least 50-80 of them in a day maybe more. So that is about 80 x 80 x 2 would be around 12000 times.
I love how the toe strap failed and the ankle strap failed right after.


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## ekb18c

neptune0623 said:


> Really appreciate the Rome Katana suggestion. That looks like such an awesome binding. I don't have much experience with Rome bindings...are they reputable? I noticed they have the heel cup adjustment too.
> 
> Thanks.


Yes, great binding and great company...


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## Argo

Well we stuck with our gold standard and got the new force bindings. I will report if any issues. 

We have hundreds of days on multiple unions and just have not had the issue. I asked my son about the blue loctite and he said he has not used it on the last 2 or 3 pairs. We didnt put any on these either. I would guess he rides more and tougher terrain than 99.9% of riders. 

Any issues we have had with bindings were resolved within a couple of days for shipping time. The contact pro gave us issues with broken disc then broken base place 2 years ago and thats it....


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## jonoff

Wish I would have read this before taking my 2017 Forces out for 3 days and finding the same issue - strap on back foot loosens the screw over time. Not sure what to do as I loved my my old pair of 2012 Forces and road them until now.


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## NePTus

Same problem here but with the flite pro 2016/2017. Screw of rear foot came out. I need to retight every day or every mid day. I try loctite blue


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## Psi-Man

This may be beat to death already...I haven't read the whole thread...but if you can find the blue loctite stick (like chapstick) as opposed to the liquid, it works better in my opinion and easier to use.


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## dolioform

I think I found a fix for this instead of loctite. I just tried adding a couple nylon washers between the washers so they're not pinching the strap as much and used some graphite lube on it. There's enough tension that the straps still hold themselves up but they move around the washers without spinning them. I just have to wait for snow to actually test it now


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## griffin1324

I picked up a pair of Flights in 2016 and loved them. Ended up buying a new pair on sale at the end of last season and after 3 days of riding (beginning of May at A. Basin on a Smokin' Awesymmetrcical), I put them on a different board and noticed my back ankle strap was loose. Didn't think much of it until now. I noticed before I made it to the lift, so I was able to tighten it without a problem. I usually don't check everything every time I go out, but I think I'm going to start.

I have had strap issues before with one falling off and another snapping, but that was the mid-late 90s and Morrows.


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## francium

I had the same issue with my union factory last time it happened I was out with a guide for a day just got to the top of a glacier about to strap in and my toe strap fell off, needless to say I was less than impressed after having it happen previously. By pure luck I found the screw lying in the snow, just incase it ever happens to anyone and you can't find the screw but happen to have a gopro the gropro mounting screw is the same size thread (had to use one previously). Changed to Rome bindings after that season and have never had an issue.


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## QCMP

On my side I had screws stuck in the inserts. It was the Union Factory on my Jones Aviator. So I think the board with the stuck screw into the insert to the shop and they had to cut the head of the screw to the it off. The original Union screw rusted into the insert and I had signs of early rust into the other screws too. So I replaced the hardware with Burton's and the problem was solved. 

But now I have a screw that's stuck into my Aviator without a head. So try to figured to get it off...


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## linvillegorge

Tried Unions twice (Factories and Flite Pros).

No clue where the hype comes from. I owned both for maybe a combined three weeks.


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## Rip154

QCMP said:


> But now I have a screw that's stuck into my Aviator without a head. So try to figured to get it off...


Visit your local car mechanic, he'll know what to do.


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## Gr4yson

Does anybody know if the issue with losing screws is solved with the 2018 models?


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## Nivek

Based on one of the owners telling me that bolts and straps is a big priority for 2019, if say no. 

What model are you looking at?


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## Gr4yson

Thanx for the reply. I'm looking at the force and could get a 2017 model for a much better price than the 2018 model.


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## Nivek

Do the 2017


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## Gr4yson

Thanx for your help!


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## UNION_INHOUSE

Gr4yson said:


> Does anybody know if the issue with losing screws is solved with the 2018 models?


We had several days of production of the 16/17 bindings where some of the hardware had faulty thread locker. Unfortunately, this wasn't realized until we started having a spike of calls similar to the OP on the thread. Anyone having issues please go to our site, and call the warranty number listed in your country. https://www.unionbindingcompany.com/warranty

In regards to the current lineup, I can confirm that the issue is resolved. We have also reworked the bolt/washer relationship to keep things tight, even after the thread locker has worn off. 

Thanks, and here's to an awesome season!


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## Gr4yson

That's great news. Thank you and have a great winter!


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## Alex_H

How are do you all do?! I also have the issue with the ankle strap screws on brand new union bindings ST of 2016-2017. I was snowboarding last weekend for the first time with these bindings and noticed that screws on both sides of my left binding are pretty much loose and my heel cup in the default position (it was adjusted to the 2nd position according to the side scale). That is strange as I don't charge my board hard yet. :|


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## Jonny C




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## Fielding

Get some threadlock, yo. And secure the nuts w some shoe goo or some gorilla tape. Maybe consider carrying some spares in your secret pocket along with all that contraband. I like unions in general. Have had 3 pairs Atlas and other models. But never had that problem. Then again I am a compulsive bolt tightener.


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## kriegs13

UNION_INHOUSE said:


> We had several days of production of the 16/17 bindings where some of the hardware had faulty thread locker. Unfortunately, this wasn't realized until we started having a spike of calls similar to the OP on the thread. Anyone having issues please go to our site, and call the warranty number listed in your country. https://www.unionbindingcompany.com/warranty
> 
> In regards to the current lineup, I can confirm that the issue is resolved. We have also reworked the bolt/washer relationship to keep things tight, even after the thread locker has worn off.
> 
> Thanks, and here's to an awesome season!


So yeah..same issue with 16/17 contacts.. I emailed warranty and the guy who responded said "really? thats odd! you should take it to a union dealer to make sure its being set up properly"....so is it acknowledged within the company? or only for people who complain about it enough on a forum? do i now have to go to my local and have some park rat hype beast teach me about a #3 phillips then wait for it to happen again? or whats the process for Union in this case?


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## Jonny C

kriegs13 said:


> So yeah..same issue with 16/17 contacts.. I emailed warranty and the guy who responded said "really? thats odd! you should take it to a union dealer to make sure its being set up properly"....so is it acknowledged within the company?


Too many people talk trash about Burton but the fact is that the brand has one of the best customer services in the market. I would say the one of the best customer services generally speaking if we look to other product markets.

Union is a pretty brand, has a lot of visibility in movies etc but then the brand is evaluated by these type of episodes. I would not invest my money like this just to be different or anti-Burton. 

But it's just my opinion, from a guy that loves his money.


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## UNION_INHOUSE

kriegs13 said:


> So yeah..same issue with 16/17 contacts.. I emailed warranty and the guy who responded said "really? thats odd! you should take it to a union dealer to make sure its being set up properly"....so is it acknowledged within the company? or only for people who complain about it enough on a forum? do i now have to go to my local and have some park rat hype beast teach me about a #3 phillips then wait for it to happen again? or whats the process for Union in this case?


If it's too much of a hassle to hit up your local shop, then CALL our US warranty dept. 206.632.1601

We always prefer customers check with their dealer, mostly because we provide free parts to them. It's also the fastest way to get you back on the hill. 

PM me if you need any other help.

Thanks!


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## Osin83

UNION_INHOUSE said:


> We always encourage people to tighten their hardware every day before riding. Loctite is the answer, but please let it dry before putting the screws back in.


I've been having this same hardware loosening issue on my pair of last year's Ultra bindings. It's become much more severe this season. I religiously check all my hardware each morning before heading out. But if I put in a full day of riding, I will end up needing to tighten the ankle strap screws easily 3-4 times throughout the day. Not because they are a little loose, but because they are at the verge of falling off. When riding at resorts with a lot of gondola trips it affects both my front and back bindings. I just found this thread tonight, and my next trip won't be for another week and a half so was trying to find a remedy. 

My concern is that you recommend using loc-tite, but when looking at the Union warranty page you linked to in a later post there is a huge warning not to use any loc-tite. will this cause any issues, or is it safe to use loc-tite on the strap screws?


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## snoway

UNION_INHOUSE said:


> Always bagging on Union. You should start a new binding brand Kevin. It's super easy!
> 
> 
> We always encourage people to tighten their hardware every day before riding. Loctite is the answer, but please let it dry before putting the screws back in.
> 
> Consider how many bindings we have on snow. 13 years on the market. We are bound to have handfuls of customers who need to loctite their hardware. Apologies to anybody who's had any "out of the ordinary" issues with this stuff.


A little late to this thread...

I have the screws loosening after every run. I crank them as tight as I can and by the end of the run they are loose. I have only put about 20 days riding on them.

Interesting you say to use loc-tite when on the union website it says "WARNING: DO NOT USE LOC-TITE
Application of Loc-Tite is not recommended by Union Binding Company. The use of Loc-Tite or similar products could result in stress cracks and fractures on all thermo plastics. If you are having issues with loose mounting hardware please contact your local authorized Union dealer."


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## kriegs13

snoway said:


> A little late to this thread...
> 
> 
> 
> I have the screws loosening after every run. I crank them as tight as I can and by the end of the run they are loose. I have only put about 20 days riding on them.
> 
> 
> 
> Interesting you say to use loc-tite when on the union website it says "WARNING: DO NOT USE LOC-TITE
> 
> Application of Loc-Tite is not recommended by Union Binding Company. The use of Loc-Tite or similar products could result in stress cracks and fractures on all thermo plastics. If you are having issues with loose mounting hardware please contact your local authorized Union dealer."




Yeah man. The issue is annoying on its own but the public and private response seems to vary depending on what time of the day you ask union. 

In their defense, they did send me some 2019 hardware. Solved the strap issue (crazy that it took this long to implement strap hardware that works. He mini disc and mounting hardware were the same so I still had moving bindings. It did eventually stop for me. The foam on the base just needs to be broken in before the epic board feel stops getting in the way. 

Don’t use loc tite. “Official literature” says as much and will probably be the bottom line on any warranty claim. Also don’t use it because no one should have to use after market loc tite to keep their snowboard bindings attached in 2018. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## f00bar

Properly applied loctite isn't an issue. You put it on, let it dry, screw it in without it slopping all over. Only metal to metal contact.

However, if you don't want to there are plenty of DIY solutions. All you really want to do is increase the static friction a bit between the screw and nut hole. Cut a small strip of masking tape and wrap it. Plumbers tape would also work even though the slickness is counter intuitive. It likely doesn't take much to make this go away.


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## speedjason

f00bar said:


> Properly applied loctite isn't an issue. You put it on, let it dry, screw it in without it slopping all over. Only metal to metal contact.
> 
> However, if you don't want to there are plenty of DIY solutions. All you really want to do is increase the static friction a bit between the screw and nut hole. Cut a small strip of masking tape and wrap it. Plumbers tape would also work even though the slickness is counter intuitive. It likely doesn't take much to make this go away.


The problem is loctite only cures when there is iron particles and lack of oxygen like for example a metal screw into metal bolt.
It won't dry if you just let it sit exposed to air.

I believe I have posted in this post about how to fix this issue. Remove the nylon washers!!!
It's been 5 years, never loosened.



speedjason said:


> When I got my 2014 Force they had nylon washers between the screw and the strap and when you rotate the strap, it would loosen the screws.
> What I did was I took the nylon washers out. It a looser fit but they are not loosening anymore.
> The nylon washer is keeping the screws from bottoming out on the heel cup is whats causing the problem. I think what they are trying to do is to give a more premium feel so the ladders and straps kind of stay in place when not fastened.
> Take the washers out, it's been tight for 3 years. I just recently replaced the ratchets on the back foot. The little springs broke so the ratchets would flop around but its normal wear and tear.


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## Osin83

speedjason said:


> I believe I have posted in this post about how to fix this issue. Remove the nylon washers!!!
> It's been 5 years, never loosened.


I guess I'll try this. This is really an annoying problem. I've ridden cartels for the past 10 years because of their value and consistent performance, never one issue. I splurged on a pair of Union Ultras last season because I am moving towards a stiffer setup and the strap screw issue is maddening.


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## kriegs13

Osin83 said:


> I guess I'll try this. This is really an annoying problem. I've ridden cartels for the past 10 years because of their value and consistent performance, never one issue. I splurged on a pair of Union Ultras last season because I am moving towards a stiffer setup and the strap screw issue is maddening.




If your issue is just the straps and the base is fine, email union and ask them to send some 2019 strap hardware. They’re significantly improved and have teeth to keep things where they should be. The picture I took wouldn’t focus but you can kind of see what I’m talking about










Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## PaLee

kriegs13 said:


> If your issue is just the straps and the base is fine, email union and ask them to send some 2019 strap hardware. They’re significantly improved and have teeth to keep things where they should be. The picture I took wouldn’t focus but you can kind of see what I’m talking about
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Hello ! 
Can you please give me the email addresse ? 
I have a same problem with my crab grab binding...


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## Ponas Justas

kriegs13 said:


> If your issue is just the straps and the base is fine, email union and ask them to send some 2019 strap hardware. They’re significantly improved and have teeth to keep things where they should be. The picture I took wouldn’t focus but you can kind of see what I’m talking about
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk





PaLee said:


> Hello !
> Can you please give me the email addresse ?
> I have a same problem with my crab grab binding...



Hi,
Could one of you please send me the email as well? Thank you


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## Gregor Mahler

had the same pair of union Data bindings since 2009. Never needed to screw in, never had any issue ever.
Now looking to get new Falcor, but this thread makes me resist the urge to pull the trigger


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## Decade190

which screws are falling out?

the heel strap?

sounds very worrying.

i just bought some union falcors but thinking i'll send them straight back for a refund!


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## SGboarder

Gregor Mahler said:


> had the same pair of union Data bindings since 2009. Never needed to screw in, never had any issue ever.
> Now looking to get new Falcor, but this thread makes me resist the urge to pull the trigger


Seriously, because of some guys on the internet? With opinions all over the place and after you have had almost a decade of first hand experience with Union (likely more than the cry babies on this thread combined).



Decade190 said:


> which screws are falling out?
> 
> the heel strap?
> 
> sounds very worrying.
> 
> i just bought some union falcors but thinking i'll send them straight back for a refund!


You sound fearful. Snowboarding might not be for you...


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## Decade190

SGboarder said:


> Seriously, because of some guys on the internet? With opinions all over the place and after you have had almost a decade of first hand experience with Union (likely more than the cry babies on this thread combined).
> 
> 
> You sound fearful. Snowboarding might not be for you...


condesending muppet. 

Sure you would be fearful if your ankle strap flew off midway through hooning it down a steep face....

the fact that 3+ people in the last few posts are asking for email to replace their faulty screws should tell you something.


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## txb0115

The people at C3 are good peeps, but I can’t recomend Unions to anyone.

The only pair of bindings in the last 20 years I’ve had screws come loose were Unions. After the 4th day of dealing with it, I sold them and resumed riding my Burton/Now setups.

This year on a trip with some friends, one homie had a brand new pair of Falcors break on day one. Luckily my friend had two board setups with him. Unluckily the second set was Flcors as well, and though they did not break, he did spend the next three days tightening his hardware/screws what seemed like every third run. He literally had his bindings twist on him during runs and have to stop and torque his screws again..

Union did warranty his bindings...


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## Decade190

txb0115 said:


> The people at C3 are good peeps, but I can’t recomend Unions to anyone.
> 
> The only pair of bindings in the last 20 years I’ve had screws come loose were Unions. After the 4th day of dealing with it, I sold them and resumed riding my Burton/Now setups.
> 
> This year on a trip with some friends, one homie had a brand new pair of Falcors break on day one. Luckily my friend had two board setups with him. Unluckily the second set was Flcors as well, and though they did not break, he did spend the next three days tightening his hardware/screws what seemed like every third run. He literally had his bindings twist on him during runs and have to stop and torque his screws again..
> 
> Union did warranty his bindings...



It had been falcors i'd been looking at... and do admit they look flimsy.
This thread means i will certainly not be buying union which is a massive shame as i really wanted to give them a shot.


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## txb0115

Decade190 said:


> It had been falcors i'd been looking at... and do admit they look flimsy.
> This thread means i will certainly not be buying union which is a massive shame as i really wanted to give them a shot.


I wouldn’t say they are flimsy. They are made of carbon/carbon fiber, which is a material that has some incredible strength in some situations/configurations, but it can also be incredibly brittle in some ways, especially when subjected to really cold temps...

It’s a fickle material to work with, and that’s 
why carbon high backs get broken so easily by chairlifts...


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## speedjason

My problem is my Force just won't die. Its kinda had to get rid of something that just won't die.


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## SGboarder

Decade190 said:


> condesending muppet.
> 
> Sure you would be fearful if your ankle strap flew off midway through hooning it down a steep face....
> 
> the fact that 3+ people in the last few posts are asking for email to replace their faulty screws should tell you something.


It should tell you that the rate of problems is tiny if there is only such a small number of complaints (and many of them either not serious or user error) for a company that sells thousands of bindings.

And if it makes you worry or even send back bindings that you just bought, it tells me that you have poor judgment and reasoning abilities.


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## UNION_INHOUSE

SGboarder said:


> It should tell you that the rate of problems is tiny if there is only such a small number of complaints (and many of them either not serious or user error) for a company that sells thousands of bindings.
> 
> And if it makes you worry or even send back bindings that you just bought, it tells me that you have poor judgment and reasoning abilities.



We definitely have a lot of bindings on the hill. 

The hardware issue has been our highest priority. New locking washers!

We have a dream that every snowboarder will use a #3 phillips, and crank their shit down!


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## Decade190

UNION_INHOUSE said:


> We definitely have a lot of bindings on the hill.
> 
> The hardware issue has been our highest priority. New locking washers!
> 
> We have a dream that every snowboarder will use a #3 phillips, and crank their shit down!


Do we have to wait until next year to get these improved locking hardware?

I bought some falcors recently but have been debating on keeping them as don't want to use them and run into issues then not be able to return them.
I bring one pair of bindings on month long trips to japan/canada (from the uk) so need them to be reliable.

Am i better sending these back and waiting for next years edition which have been "fixed"?

thanks


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## Qplazm Qplazm

I have the same issue on my Union Asymbol 16-17. The guys at a local store gave me a substitute screw that was a tiny bit wider so it hasn't come off since, however, I need to tighten everything at least twice a day in order to be sure not to lose anything along the way. It is not that big of an issue, however, this is not Union's cheapest model so one would expect more... On the other hand, a friend of mine has the Force Cosmo 14/15 and has never had issues of any sort with them.


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## Jcb890

I like my Unions and Union CS has treated my wife and I well.

That said, we've both always had hardware issues - bolts holding the whole binding into the inserts loosening and the ankle strap hardware needs to be re-checked and re-tightened almost every day. My Factories seem to be better about this than my wife's Milans. Her hardware needs to be tightened quite often. Her toe straps also move from the back slot to the front slot quite often on their own and then the straps don't fit her feet right.

My Factories and her Milans have also been quite durable though and like I said, Union Customer Service has been pretty good to us. Overall, can't complain too much.


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## Gregor Mahler

Union_House, 

do you know if the Falcor i could buy now in Italy have the issue fixed? is there any way to know in advance/see if the problem has been solved? thanks


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## SteezyRidah303

Gregor Mahler said:


> Union_House,
> 
> do you know if the Falcor i could buy now in Italy have the issue fixed? is there any way to know in advance/see if the problem has been solved? thanks


2 Words.... Loctite Blue.....

I LOVE unions...lifetime warranty, great selection of bindings, comfortable straps and good general build quality.

But, of the 4 pairs i've owned and others in my circle, this is a notorious issue EVERY pair of unions so far has eventually From Falcors to Contacts.

Just loctite all the screws, but use blue so you can remove them when you need to adjust. I even locktite the baseplate screws on all my bindings


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## Carterbliss10

Yo


UNION_INHOUSE said:


> Always bagging on Union. You should start a new binding brand Kevin. It's super easy!
> 
> 
> We always encourage people to tighten their hardware every day before riding. Loctite is the answer, but please let it dry before putting the screws back in.
> 
> Consider how many bindings we have on snow. 13 years on the market. We are bound to have handfuls of customers who need to loctite their hardware. Apologies to anybody who's had any "out of the ordinary" issues with this stuff.
> [/QUOT
> 
> 
> 
> 
> UNION_INHOUSE said:
> 
> 
> 
> First of all, thank you for the support. I guess I was only trying to solve the OP's current problem, instead of "yeah we are working on it".
> 
> But yes, we are working on it! I can give you reasons and excuses, but I don't think that's super productive either.
> 
> One thing I'd like to say though, is everybody should check their hardware before they go shred - regardless of the brand.
> 
> Lastly, I've always thought the good thing forums like SBF, is people can communicate directly with designers & company people making the products they use. It's a casual setting. I've never been that good at political correctness. My "dig" at Kevin, wasn't meant to start anything. I was only joking.
> 
> 
> 
> Everyone should check their hardware but how can you explain me tightening my bindings before the day, halfway through they become lose so I go tighten them again at the mountain repair shop, next run they are already loose. Using contact pros on a board tbay rides back foot heavy is like asking to have to stop every time you get to the bottom
Click to expand...


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## Taft

Joined up just to chime in with my experience. Bought some Stratas last season, and I've had a hell of a time keeping them tightened to my board. Got to the point I was tightening them after every run. I don't know what makes these different, if the mini disc or flexibility do anything, but my front foot just always wanted to come up.

I've since put on locktite and they've stayed secure for a couple days. But goddamn, nothing worse when you can't trust your bindings on a run.


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## Jacobsmittyy

UNION_INHOUSE said:


> Always bagging on Union. You should start a new binding brand Kevin. It's super easy!
> 
> 
> We always encourage people to tighten their hardware every day before riding. Loctite is the answer, but please let it dry before putting the screws back in.
> 
> Consider how many bindings we have on snow. 13 years on the market. We are bound to have handfuls of customers who need to loctite their hardware. Apologies to anybody who's had any "out of the ordinary" issues with this stuff.


Wow that's a little passive aggressive no? He's valid in his complaints because in 2020, with NEW bindings, it's still a problem. My friends hate me for needing to find a screwdriver every few runs. Not to mention that in the paperwork that comes in the box with the bindings, it specifically says not to use loctite. I'm gonna go ahead and use it though, and know who to blame if something goes wrong.


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## vodkaboarder

I just ordered a pair of Flux DS to replace my 2018 Contact Pros. The bindings are awesome but having to constantly check/tighten that screw is too much responsibility while drinking my way through the Alps. Went with the DS specifically because of the non adjustable heel cup.


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## 16gkid

I will never understand the cult following of union bindings, same stories every season but the fans insist it never happens, too many other good brands out there to even mess with the clusterfuck that is union screws.


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## Taft

The screw situation does piss me off at times, but the bindings themselves are outstanding. The Stratas I've been using feel so good that it's easier to put up with.


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## WigMar

I hit my screws on my Union Forces with nail polish years ago, and it did a pretty good job keeping them in place. I only had to do that once or twice a season lol. I've finally retired them, and didn't go with Union again because of the screw thing. Now I've broken a K2 highback lol. I bet the Unions would have broken too. Loveland has some murderous chairs.


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## vodkaboarder

I should also add that due to the way my ankle strap is adjusted, the end of it covers the screw that comes loose so every time I have to tighten it, the ankle strap adjustment screw has to be completely removed just so I can tighten the heel cup screw. Shit is obnoxious.


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## Yeahti87

I’m not a Union fanboy and they fucked up with the washers but when it comes to the binding plate screws this little thing keeps my Falcors tight for days on my 4x4 and The Channel boards. My friend with a regular screwdriver cannot even move the screws I’ve fixed without any effort. Funny thing because I’ve actually got it for my Katanas as I was unable to unscrew the chassis.


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## steveM70

I rented a board ( GNU hyperkyarve 157) from the local boardshop and had them put some Union Stata's on it they had in the rental stack. Great feel. After about 5 runs I noticed when I was strapping in that the whole binding was rotating clockwise under my right ( rear leg). Dude with a leatherman helped me out . Turns out the top left screw had seriously loosened and needed tightening. Liked the bindings feel. Don't like the loosening. Now Im paranoid about Union minidiscs.


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## Luxxer

Ive been riding the new stratas for 2 weeks now, the strap is still tight like hell. And the minidisk too... lets see how it holds up in the alps


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## Jimi7

I passed on Unions and got some Cartels becuz loose screws is a known issue with Unions. Union's response to this very serious/dangerous issue lacks professionalism IMHO. Had some Ride SPIs circa 2007 that the toe strap screw would come out on (2 different pairs) nothing like bombing down the mountain to test your new bindings and suddenly you have no heelside response. I don't need to experience that ever again....


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## Luxxer

Ok update: I've been riding the 2020 Strata's in the Austrian alps for about a week now. Icy, slushy, bumpy, smooth and all sorts of terrain. Zero problems with the screws, I checked them many times because of all the comments but I guess the new washer system is doing it's thing! Also they ride quite well  I am starting to notice my boots are a bit too soft for my style, but thats another story


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## spandangle

Did last day of Dolomites without a toe strap. I only managed to find the screw that had come loose. Foam on highback also came away. They were great while they lasted but after 3 weeks in the mountain they fell apart.


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## Kaladryn

I've ridden most bindings over the last 25+ years and my Unions are my all-time favorite. They did have a screw issue that Union fixed last year and they sent me the new screws free of charge, no more issues. I also had a freak accident (that was my fault) that broke my highback and Union's shop gave me 2 new (updated) highbacks for $15. These are the most heavy-duty, shock-absorbing, and responsive bindings I have owned. Their ankle strap has gotten better every year and it is now nearly perfect. I have zero issues with their minidiscs if tightened correctly. I ride the Ultras.


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## Jimi7

spandangle said:


> Did last day of Dolomites without a toe strap. I only managed to find the screw that had come loose. Foam on highback also came away. They were great while they lasted but after 3 weeks in the mountain they fell apart.


That blows. I had to ride some Ride SPIs without a toe strap - not cool. Luckily, my shop has a performance guarantee and swapped the defective SPIs (2 different pairs) for some Salomon SPX 55s. It's amazing my SPIs didn't last a single a day, your Dolomites only made it 3 weeks, yet my Salomons lasted 12 years; this year an ankle slider finally broke. Luckily, member 
*dwdesign *has an old Salomon ankle strap he's sending me. I may pass these bindings down to my son - LOL.


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## Funks

Shouldn't have any more bolt back-out problems with the newer UNIONS. They are using NORD-LOCK type mechanism now (CAMS).

Honestly, Union (at least in the US) have one of the best customer service out there for replacement parts. Worst in my option is Mervin, getting parts for their Fastec GNU branded bindings (good thing SP Bindings have a US distributor now, so you can get extra cables, screws, and etc that may ruin a trip as it's not easy to find replacement parts at a local shop).


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