# powder board and stance width.



## KIRKRIDER (Mar 18, 2008)

I used to set way back my camber board for deep days, and it worked to somewhat diminish the back leg workout, but at the same time control of the board was not the same, not to mention washing out every other turn. So once I got my Hovercraft I kept doing the same on deep pow days. 

I am now convinced that is wrong. both boards should be ridden centered and respecting your stance ( mine is 20.5 / 21 ). I started pay attention to that and realized that moving both binding as far back as possible would give me a stance of about 23.5 / 24, way wider than I like. SO I finally marked the spots on both boards where my stance width takes me, no matter the conditions, and the board (Hovercraft) performed much better. 

How do you guys deal with deep days? What do you think?


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## linvillegorge (Jul 6, 2009)

There's no need to setback a powder board. They're already plenty setback. 

Setting back other boards behind what the camber is really designed for causes the issues you're talking about. In my experience, those issues don't show up in powder, but make themselves well known as soon as you hit a groomer. IMO, it's a give and take. If it's a really deep day and that's all you've got, set it back and deal with the little bit of sketchiness on groomers between pow stashes. I also never set my bindings back beyond what my normal stance width would allow.


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## KIRKRIDER (Mar 18, 2008)

linvillegorge said:


> There's no need to setback a powder board. They're already plenty setback.




Now I see the light. Also, on the new Hovercraft thy marked the center points, I saw in a video review. On mine they weren't marked, making the whole setup a bit of hit and miss. How do you properly calculate the sidecut center in a Hybrid rocker- camber - rocker board?


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## redlude97 (Jan 9, 2008)

The easiest thing to do is just pull out a tape measure. Assuming the inserts are correct, look up the recommend setback for the board, then measure from the tip to the first set of the inserts and the same for the rear. That will be a bit tricky with the hovy. Or measure between the widest points with the board on its side to determine the center point to measure out your stance width


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## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

KIRKRIDER said:


> How do you guys deal with deep days? What do you think?


Powder board...like a Charlie Slasher



KIRKRIDER said:


> Now I see the light. Also, on the new Hovercraft thy marked the center points, I saw in a video review. On mine they weren't marked, making the whole setup a bit of hit and miss. How do you properly calculate the sidecut center in a Hybrid rocker- camber - rocker board?


Ought to be able to see it or just do some width measuring with a tape measure....narrowest point will be the sidecut center.


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## behi (Feb 27, 2013)

I like a wide stance for powder. It's easier to shift the weight and throw the board around (e.g. when you have some windblown stuff or crust).

When there is good powder, I do use some setback (I always carry good tools). In terms of groomers, setback doesn't bother me that much for skidded turns, but I can't carve anymore.



KIRKRIDER said:


> Now I see the light. Also, on the new Hovercraft thy marked the center points, I saw in a video review. On mine they weren't marked, making the whole setup a bit of hit and miss. How do you properly calculate the sidecut center in a Hybrid rocker- camber - rocker board?


Just use the same mounting holes front and back (mirrored of course).


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## KIRKRIDER (Mar 18, 2008)

Yep. Got it now. JJ suggests a 23" stance for the Hovy, it feels a bit too wide for me, but I might try it in a really deep and fluffy day. 

according to most tables I found online the Stance width for my height should be around 20, tape measured the inserts and found out my options, marked them down on all boards. Funny that in ALL board setup video I watched ( and I watched lots of them) there is no mention about this step.


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## linvillegorge (Jul 6, 2009)

KIRKRIDER said:


> Yep. Got it now. JJ suggests a 23" stance for the Hovy, it feels a bit too wide for me, but I might try it in a really deep and fluffy day.
> 
> according to most tables I found online the Stance width for my height should be around 20, tape measured the inserts and found out my options, marked them down on all boards. Funny that in ALL board setup video I watched ( and I watched lots of them) there is no mention about this step.


I tend to not listen to the advice of others in terms of things like stance width and binding angles. Just do what feels right.


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## KIRKRIDER (Mar 18, 2008)

linvillegorge said:


> I tend to not listen to the advice of others in terms of things like stance width and binding angles. Just do what feels right.



I always did, but yesterday while riding I felt I was off balance. The board floated all right, but I didn't have the feeling I was completely in control. Moved my stance to the center... problem solved. 

I really thought the choice of inserts was to accomodate deeper powder, not one's stance. Instead I read it's the opposite.


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## linvillegorge (Jul 6, 2009)

Stance width and angles does not equal setback. Even when I was setting back my all-mountain boards before buying a powder stick, I kept my width and angles the same.


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## KIRKRIDER (Mar 18, 2008)

linvillegorge said:


> Stance width and angles does not equal setback. Even when I was setting back my all-mountain boards before buying a powder stick, I kept my width and angles the same.



I wasn't considering width at all. I usually placed the bindings on the manufacturer's marked center in the inserts, ride like that, and eventually move it all back on a deep day. 
Then I started narrowing my stance on the A-Frame (camber) and man, carving was so much easier. 

I got into finding my "suggested" stance width and use that as reference point instead of the marks on the board. 










Wish I knew it sooner!


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## linvillegorge (Jul 6, 2009)

I just don't think there's any set scale for width. Kind of like there's no set scale for board length based on height or weight. It's just whatever is comfortable for the individual. Now obviously it would be pretty extreme for a 5'6" guy to be riding 24" wide or a 6'4" guy to be riding 20" wide, but then again, they probably wouldn't find that to be very natural feeling and probably wouldn't ride that way long.

I'm 5'11" and ride at 22.5".


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## KIRKRIDER (Mar 18, 2008)

linvillegorge said:


> I just don't think there's any set scale for width. Kind of like there's no set scale for board length based on height or weight. It's just whatever is comfortable for the individual. Now obviously it would be pretty extreme for a 5'6" guy to be riding 24" wide or a 6'4" guy to be riding 20" wide, but then again, they probably wouldn't find that to be very natural feeling and probably wouldn't ride that way long.
> 
> I'm 5'11" and ride at 22.5".


you consider that narrow or wide? What type of riding you do the most? Is that on a camber or rock board?


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## linvillegorge (Jul 6, 2009)

I just consider it normal. It's what feels right to me. I'm an all-mountain/freerider. Little to no park for me. I ride that width regardless of the camber profile.


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## redlude97 (Jan 9, 2008)

Its very personal, I'm 5'7" and I ride a 22" stance on all my boards. Like Lin said, it just feels right


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## ETM (Aug 11, 2009)

redlude97 said:


> The easiest thing to do is just pull out a tape measure. Assuming the inserts are correct, look up the recommend setback for the board, then measure from the tip to the first set of the inserts and the same for the rear. That will be a bit tricky with the hovy. Or measure between the widest points with the board on its side to determine the center point to measure out your stance width


This isnt correct. First you need to find the start and finish of the side cut by placing tge board on edge on a flat surface and marking where it makes contact. Then find the half way point and you have your true centre.


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## redlude97 (Jan 9, 2008)

ETM said:


> This isnt correct. First you need to find the start and finish of the side cut by placing tge board on edge on a flat surface and marking where it makes contact. Then find the half way point and you have your true centre.


Maybe I wasn't clear but thats exactly what I meant in the second half of my post there.


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## Loftness (Feb 19, 2014)

Until recently I'd never had the opportunity to get into deeper powder. I'd only been in short stuff, and of course I always loved it, but it doesn't really matter what type of board you're on in shallow powder. So I took a 160 Heritage to Big Sky, found a blue that was knee-high plus, and jumped in gleefully...and bit it. It was hilarious really. After I finally was able to stand again I continued, more cautiously, but I kept catching edges on turns. Eventually I said screw it to attempting turns and just went straight, surfing the rest of the way through the run. I'd set my stance back a bit in anticipation of the day. The next day I set it back as far as it would go under the (foolish?) notion that it would help my turning, and it was just as bad. 

It wasn't a powder weekend though so I just kept to normal groomers after that. I was disappointed in my first real powder experience. But now I'm pretty sure I would have been best served just keeping my normal stance on that board as a starter. I understand there's a learning curve to powder, but I probably completely countered every intended benefit to my board by setting my bindings that way.


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## KIRKRIDER (Mar 18, 2008)

Loftness said:


> Until recently I'd never had the opportunity to get into deeper powder. I'd only been in short stuff, and of course I always loved it, but it doesn't really matter what type of board you're on in shallow powder. So I took a 160 Heritage to Big Sky, found a blue that was knee-high plus, and jumped in gleefully...and bit it. It was hilarious really. After I finally was able to stand again I continued, more cautiously, but I kept catching edges on turns. Eventually I said screw it to attempting turns and just went straight, surfing the rest of the way through the run. I'd set my stance back a bit in anticipation of the day. The next day I set it back as far as it would go under the (foolish?) notion that it would help my turning, and it was just as bad.
> 
> It wasn't a powder weekend though so I just kept to normal groomers after that. I was disappointed in my first real powder experience. But now I'm pretty sure I would have been best served just keeping my normal stance on that board as a starter. I understand there's a learning curve to powder, but I probably completely countered every intended benefit to my board by setting my bindings that way.


That was my feeling too. What kind of deep snow is important too. Kirkwood's was heavy in the morning, and the traces left by other riders were deep steps after few hours. In a situation like that having no tail makes it really hard to not wash out of every other turn. Sure you can just rudder off the board, but in deep heavy snow that slows you down too much.


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## poutanen (Dec 22, 2011)

Yeah I ride the same stance width/angles on every board, regardless of setback. At least I try (the Nitro Slash 166 has a minimum stance width about 1" wider than I like).

I also noticed the other day that I setback my Virus about 3/4" more than the factory setback. Same stance width (21.25") but more setback. Been riding it for a while now and love the setup in ALL conditions... I really get over the nose and drive the board on groomer days though. So much so that my FRONT leg hurts on groomer days! lol


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## KIRKRIDER (Mar 18, 2008)

poutanen said:


> Yeah I ride the same stance width/angles on every board, regardless of setback. At least I try (the Nitro Slash 166 has a minimum stance width about 1" wider than I like).
> 
> I also noticed the other day that I setback my Virus about 3/4" more than the factory setback. Same stance width (21.25") but more setback. Been riding it for a while now and love the setup in ALL conditions... I really get over the nose and drive the board on groomer days though. So much so that my FRONT leg hurts on groomer days! lol


Nice! I know what you mean, I like to load the front and carve too on the A Frame. Still haven't had really good snow yet. But that might change this week. I see a carving weekend coming.


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## CassMT (Mar 14, 2013)

i never change my setup for pow, cuz unless it's heliboarding one still has to do some trails and cattracks just to get around, and i like switch too much, esp in the pow


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

poutanen said:


> Yeah I ride the same stance width/angles on every board, regardless of setback


Same angles and stance (21.7in @ 5'7) on all boards here as well. Always beginning with the middle mirrored inserts on new boards, then setback bit by bit. 156 wmn Solution and Mothership are meanwhile setback to the most hind insert on the rear binding, while 158 Flagship (my solution for deep days) still is centered. 



poutanen said:


> So much so that my FRONT leg hurts on groomer days! lol


+1 again. Pure groomer days are hard work for the front leg. Pow days are so much less exhausting


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## KIRKRIDER (Mar 18, 2008)

neni said:


> Same angles and stance (21.7in @ 5'7) on all boards here as well. Always beginning with the middle mirrored inserts on new boards, then setback bit by bit. 156 wmn Solution and Mothership are meanwhile setback to the most hind insert on the rear binding, while 158 Flagship (my solution for deep days) still is centered.
> 
> 
> 
> +1 again. Pure groomer days are hard work for the front leg. Pow days are so much less exhausting


Looks like you're missing the Hovercraft  Nice boards.


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## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

Loftness said:


> Until recently I'd never had the opportunity to get into deeper powder. I'd only been in short stuff, and of course I always loved it, but it doesn't really matter what type of board you're on in shallow powder. So I took a 160 Heritage to Big Sky, found a blue that was knee-high plus, and jumped in gleefully...and bit it. It was hilarious really. After I finally was able to stand again I continued, more cautiously, but I kept catching edges on turns. Eventually I said screw it to attempting turns and just went straight, surfing the rest of the way through the run. I'd set my stance back a bit in anticipation of the day. The next day I set it back as far as it would go under the (foolish?) notion that it would help my turning, and it was just as bad.
> 
> It wasn't a powder weekend though so I just kept to normal groomers after that. I was disappointed in my first real powder experience. But now I'm pretty sure I would have been best served just keeping my normal stance on that board as a starter. I understand there's a learning curve to powder, but I probably completely countered every intended benefit to my board by setting my bindings that way.





KIRKRIDER said:


> That was my feeling too. What kind of deep snow is important too. Kirkwood's was heavy in the morning, and the traces left by other riders were deep steps after few hours. In a situation like that having no tail makes it really hard to not wash out of every other turn. Sure you can just rudder off the board, but in deep heavy snow that slows you down too much.


boys...not only do you need a pudah board...you need puudaah skillz. Its about picking your lines wisely, waiting for your turns to come to you (just can't hack anywhere ya want) and ride like its a "no fall line" (cause riding deeeep...ya don't want to fall cause ub fucked)

fwiw...5'6" stance is 21.5" and angles are the same...for all my rides.


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## KIRKRIDER (Mar 18, 2008)

wrathfuldeity said:


> boys...not only do you need a pudah board...you need puudaah skillz. Its about picking your lines wisely, waiting for your turns to come to you (just can't hack anywhere ya want) and ride like its a "no fall line" (cause riding deeeep...ya don't want to fall cause ub fucked)
> 
> fwiw...5'6" stance is 21.5" and angles are the same...for all my rides.


dood I got pow skillz... but I just discovered another thing about my beloved toys here. wtf "stance width" meant!

Sometime, on a sunday afternoon with 350 other maniacs around you don't get to pick much, but just avoid other's lines ;-) But yes for steep deep.

I do change my angles for powder... Normally I'm on 25 - 18, for pow I use 18 - 6


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## Loftness (Feb 19, 2014)

KIRKRIDER said:


> I do change my angles for powder... Normally I'm on 25 - 18, for pow I use 18 - 6


So you're very directional normally, but for pow you move more towards neutral.


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## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

KIRKRIDER said:


> Sometime, on a sunday afternoon with 350 other maniacs around you don't get to pick much, but just avoid other's lines ;-) But yes for steep deep.


If it's tracked, but soft pow...ya cruise over it and through it...just lighten up. But if its heavy mashed poo that is tracked...then you get worked and bucked.


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

KIRKRIDER said:


> Looks like you're missing the Hovercraft  Nice boards.


Rented a 156 hovy split once, wasn't my cup of tea. Nice in fluff but coarse in frozen snow. Too much board for my feet I assume 




Loftness said:


> So you're very directional normally, but for pow you move more towards neutral.


I went the same route. From 30/15 fornerly mainly on groomers down to 24/9 since now mainly pow.


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## KIRKRIDER (Mar 18, 2008)

Loftness said:


> So you're very directional normally, but for pow you move more towards neutral.


Yes... since the deal becomes ride as long as possible that white fluff.. I look for comfort over my back leg. On a groomer day instead it's more maybe less but faster runs.. carving, and that's when I like high angles. 
But it's obviously personal... a guy was riding powder on a PRIOR ATV and hard boots sporting 55 and 45 as angles


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## KIRKRIDER (Mar 18, 2008)

wrathfuldeity said:


> If it's tracked, but soft pow...ya cruise over it and through it...just lighten up. But if its heavy mashed poo that is tracked...then you get worked and bucked.



It was heavy my friend... It's still warmish around here. But at least we do have snow now.


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## KIRKRIDER (Mar 18, 2008)

neni said:


> Rented a 156 hovy split once, wasn't my cup of tea. Nice in fluff but coarse in frozen snow. Too much board for my feet I assume


Maybe not... The Hov is pretty good on groomers too with that stiff tail...actually carves fine. But you got plenty of good boards.


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