# Tahoe by the day? Can y'all help me?



## KIRKRIDER (Mar 18, 2008)

I do mostly day trips when conditions are good...2:45 from Pleasanton to Kirkwood...shred all day and drive back. Home by 7 usually.


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## Argo (Feb 25, 2010)

Kings beach is close. $70/night.... Tahoe inn


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## hellside (Dec 28, 2008)

EastCoastChris said:


> Hey y'all. I've been googling my fingers off, but can't really figure Tahoe out.
> 
> I'm in the South Bay...and when I'm lucky I get a day off (typically Sunday) to drive up to Tahioe. My strategy so far has been to leave work Saturday at 5:30, land in Reno at 9:30, drive to Northstar at 6 AM and then drive back to South Bay at night. It just doesnt seem like there's any easier accommodation in North Tahoe. I think ny other option would be to stay in Roseville, get there at like 8 after work and then head to the mountains like 5 ish. I just cant seem to find anything affordable or not sold out in Truckee itself.
> The Roseville option may be easier if I didnt go to Northstar. I'm not in love with that mountain and its pricey for what you get. I've been thinking SugarBowl because its $20 cheaper, but then I read crappy reviews of the place. I dont need resorty stuff. i just need lifts and snow (I wont lie though....a latte at 7 AM is nice.) Is SugarBowl totally fine for just boarding blues and easier blacks? Or is it really dumpy? If I go I'm getting the CORE card ($19 and $15 off lift tickets) so I'm locking myself in to going twice.
> ...


Hi Chris, You can stay at Hostel Tahoe at Kings Beach. You can take Northstar shuttle from there if you want.

There is another hostel named Tinker Station near SugarBowl. 

You need to book early. I like both places. The owners are very nice.

SugarBowl is fine. Jeremy Jones rides there sometimes.

Kirkwood is quicker to get to than north shore. It is not freeway but much less traffic. Carson City will be your best option if you want to stay overnight.


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## Kauila (Jan 7, 2011)

Just wondering, where did you read crappy reviews of Sugar Bowl? It sounds like it would suit you just fine. Much better for the frequent day-tripper than Northstar (which imo, is like Disneyland for tourists). Sugar Bowl's a medium-sized mountain, not a dump at all, affordable, good trails, nice staff, super easy drive on the I-80 from the Bay Area/Sacramento/foothills area. More of a locals and Bay Area day-tripper vibe than Northstar. Sugar Bowl also has the best women's restroom I've seen among NLT resorts :thumbsup: The only drawback to SB is that because it's the closest "big" resort to the Bay Area, it does get crowded on weekends, especially with ski/snowboard team kids and their families.

I don't know much about staying in Roseville, but you could also stay in the Sacramento area; more business hotels to choose from, not too far a drive to Tahoe.


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## EastCoastChris (Feb 24, 2013)

A guy I work with hates the place...but I hate that guy I work with. He's totally a Northstar type. And I'm really not. But there's another travel forum I looked at...Cali not Tahoe specific. People we're busting on the place for being run down. I dont care about asthetics...but since its closest to the Bay it seems like if chairs start shutting down or if "high speed" quads and 6s arent really high speed...the day can get crowded and miserable. A hostel right there sounds good though. Or a 2 hour drive from SacMo/Roseville etc will work too.

SugarBowl seems to have a lot of local devotees on On the Snow. Which is cool. But it kinda makes me think of this place back home called Saddleback. Locals defend it like crazy because its got great snow (sometimes) but its all Tbars and broke down doubles. Its not too too bad if you are skiing but its hell on a board. Not a way I wanna spend 50 bucks. But I'm getting the sense that SugarBowl isnt gonna be duct tape and tar paper shacks. Hey I'm from Maine..we're a grubby people. And yes we use duct tape to fix tbars. So I just gotta ask. 

The Kirkwood, Carson City option sounds promising too. I could do that..get to Kirkwood Sunday AM and be home by 10 PM sunday. That would work (adding to the Peaks card!) I'm not really married to corporate hotel chains. Its just if I do one more night in a Marriot by April 15th I get 2 free (its Mega Bonus time of year!) And they give me the room/suite upgrade because I did 77 nights of 175 road nights last year at Marriott. Omg I love comps and upgrades. I really am a point bagging junkie. 

I guess my original idea was pick a mountain and learn while I'm out in Cali. But I'm ready to ditch Northstar. I'm just afraid of the logistics. But there's only one way to find ouy and thats to give it a go. Makes me feel waaaay better to hear people day tripping south.


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## nooboarder (Feb 26, 2013)

Try the bay area ski bus -- will pick you up in sunnyvale at 5am and have you back home by 9pm. They also feed you breakfast and snacks and you watch movies on the ride back. You don't have to drive, you can sleep in the morning, and you're back for dinner. 

Just google it.


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## Kauila (Jan 7, 2011)

EastCoastChris said:


> I'm getting the sense that SugarBowl isnt gonna be duct tape and tar paper shacks. Hey I'm from Maine..we're a grubby people. And yes we use duct tape to fix tbars. So I just gotta ask.


Don't worry, you won't experience duct tape and tar paper shacks unless you overshoot the entrance to the Judah-side parking lot of Sugar Bowl on the right, and accidentally turn into the parking lot to Donner Ski Ranch on the left (across the street from SB, where enthusiastic parking lot attendants eagerly wave you in). But then again, Donner Ski Ranch has its fans, too :laugh:


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## extra0 (Jan 16, 2010)

KIRKRIDER said:


> I do mostly day trips when conditions are good...2:45 from Pleasanton to Kirkwood...shred all day and drive back. Home by 7 usually.


2 hrs and 45 min from pleasanton to kirkwood even on a powder day? (sketch roads and chains)...sounds more like a 4 hr drive

anyway, I don't know how you guys do it. My local is 2 hrs on a hardpack day and about 3 hrs on a heavy powder day. I tried the one day thing a few times but it was killer on the back with all the driving _and_ shredding first to last chair. I do whatever it takes to be able to spend the night after the first day riding...then I can ride the next day and drive home with infinitely less fatigue.


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## EastCoastChris (Feb 24, 2013)

I googled the ski bus and I dont think I can do it. If anything went wrong like I got lost and missed it.. omg I would be screwed. 
My boss out here is clinically insane. You should have seen what happened to me a few weeks ago when my flight from JFK back to Cali was canceled (been flying home every other weekend.) I get stuck in Tahoe and I am scrubbing her toilets with a toothbrush for real. 
I need like...nothing...to go wrong. But otherwise...awesome tip. I'll spread the word.

In case it helps anyone out...
I ended up going with SugarBowl. I just booked a Marriott room in Rocklin just off 80 (that earns me 2 free nights next season! BOOM!) Google tells me its an hour and 17 minutes from the mountain. Previously I had been driving to Reno after work and driving back to Truckee (about 50 mins) so it doesnt add THAT much in the AM. But if I get out at 5:30 I should be in bed by 8 instead of 10 which will make getti v up at 5 easier. End of my day I am heading straight back to South Bay with the rest of the Tahoe traffic! I find though that if I am on first chair I feel ok leaving at 3:30. 
So I'll give this line of attack a go. See what happens. I'll post a trip report. 
Maybe Easter weekend I'll try Kirkwood.
Not too many more weekends after that. But I'll keep going long as the snow holds up.


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## KIRKRIDER (Mar 18, 2008)

extra0 said:


> 2 hrs and 45 min from pleasanton to kirkwood even on a powder day? (sketch roads and chains)...sounds more like a 4 hr drive
> 
> anyway, I don't know how you guys do it. My local is 2 hrs on a hardpack day and about 3 hrs on a heavy powder day. I tried the one day thing a few times but it was killer on the back with all the driving _and_ shredding first to last chair. I do whatever it takes to be able to spend the night after the first day riding...then I can ride the next day and drive home with infinitely less fatigue.



I WISH! I had so much snow on 88 to make it in more than 3 hours. No way this season.....:icon_scratch:
2:45 both ways...I have AWD. maybe longer driving back since I'm tired and not motivated by timing. Now if you plan to use chains...yes 4 hours is realistic.


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## extra0 (Jan 16, 2010)

KIRKRIDER said:


> I WISH! I had so much snow on 88 to make it in more than 3 hours. No way this season.....:icon_scratch:
> 2:45 both ways...I have AWD. maybe longer driving back since I'm tired and not motivated by timing. Now if you plan to use chains...yes 4 hours is realistic.


still sounds like a bit of an exaggeration. If it isn't, you are hauling ass...dangerously. Just FYI, I saw 3 accidents when I went up last thurs. One was an AWD teetering/stuck on top of a snow bank (tow truck was pulling it off), the second on was an AWD on it's side at the bottom of a ditch and third was a front wheel drive upside down with the entire windshield and roof caved in flat (had to be some injuries on that one) 



EastCoastChris said:


> I googled the ski bus and I dont think I can do it. If anything went wrong like I got lost and missed it.. omg I would be screwed...


the bus is a compromise. I tried that once and, yeah, it's totally sweet not to have to deal with chains and to be able to sleep all the way home...but making it to the bus on time in the morning is stressful and, worse, getting back on the bus within 30 min after last chair is even scarier (they _will_ leave you at the resort). The good thing about trying the bus at least once is it makes you not take your car and it's freedom for granted.


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## hellside (Dec 28, 2008)

extra0 said:


> still sounds like a bit of an exaggeration. If it isn't, you are hauling ass...dangerously. Just FYI, I saw 3 accidents when I went up last thurs. One was an AWD teetering/stuck on top of a snow bank (tow truck was pulling it off), the second on was an AWD on it's side at the bottom of a ditch and third was a front wheel drive upside down with the entire windshield and roof caved in flat (had to be some injuries on that one)
> 
> the bus is a compromise. I tried that once and, yeah, it's totally sweet not to have to deal with chains and to be able to sleep all the way home...but making it to the bus on time in the morning is stressful and, worse, getting back on the bus within 30 min after last chair is even scarier (they _will_ leave you at the resort). The good thing about trying the bus at least once is it makes you not take your car and it's freedom for granted.


2:45 is about right from Pleasanton.


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## KIRKRIDER (Mar 18, 2008)

extra0 said:


> still sounds like a bit of an exaggeration. If it isn't, you are hauling ass...dangerously. Just FYI, I saw 3 accidents when I went up last thurs. One was an AWD teetering/stuck on top of a snow bank (tow truck was pulling it off), the second on was an AWD on it's side at the bottom of a ditch and third was a front wheel drive upside down with the entire windshield and roof caved in flat (had to be some injuries on that one)


I'm not. I have been driving on 88 for the past 5 years in all conditions. And I saw many accidents as well. Never had one myself.

I drive a Subaru WRX I do 75/80 on the freeway (580>4>99) and at the speed limit after that...that is 55 (actual 65) until Jackson, and then HW88 that is 55 (60) (clean road) or 45 uphill 35 downhill on snow. Consider that I get to Kirkwood by 8 in general, that early the traffic is almost non existent even on weekends.
2:45 to 3 hours every time.


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## surfinsnow (Feb 4, 2010)

EastCoastChris said:


> I googled the ski bus and I dont think I can do it. If anything went wrong like I got lost and missed it.. omg I would be screwed.
> My boss out here is clinically insane. You should have seen what happened to me a few weeks ago when my flight from JFK back to Cali was canceled (been flying home every other weekend.) I get stuck in Tahoe and I am scrubbing her toilets with a toothbrush for real.
> I need like...nothing...to go wrong. But otherwise...awesome tip. I'll spread the word.
> 
> ...


Be forewarned about Kirkwood, especially considered Psycho Boss; if it starts snowing heavily, you're spending the night. There are no options, no alternate ways out. You're there until CalTrans gets the pass cleared (which they're usually are pretty good at. That said, it is an awesome mountain!

Sugarbowl is just fine. Some good chutes and steeps if you want 'em, some wide open stuff if you want that, and I don't know what anyone is talking about about it being "run down." I thought it was pretty nice. But then, I'm used to riding places in Vermont like the Mansfield lodge at Stowe, or Burke, etc. We Easties know run-down! Sugarbowl doesn't compare.

Oh, and I also agree that Northstar sucks. Except for the black trails on the backside when it's a powder day. Otherwise, it's just a big shopping mall with a ski slope attached.


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## KIRKRIDER (Mar 18, 2008)

surfinsnow said:


> Be forewarned about Kirkwood, especially considered Psycho Boss; if it starts snowing heavily, you're spending the night. There are no options, no alternate ways out. You're there until CalTrans gets the pass cleared (which they're usually are pretty good at. That said, it is an awesome mountain!


Yeah sadly not this season... Another pretty pathetic one snow-wise. Last good one was 10/11


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## surfinsnow (Feb 4, 2010)

KIRKRIDER said:


> Yeah sadly not this season... Another pretty pathetic one snow-wise. Last good one was 10/11


Sad to hear. I thought they were doing okay. Good for me, though, as 10/11 was the last time I was there, and it was awesome. I missed most of 11/12 because of foot surgery.


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## KIRKRIDER (Mar 18, 2008)

surfinsnow said:


> Sad to hear. I thought they were doing okay. Good for me, though, as 10/11 was the last time I was there, and it was awesome. I missed most of 11/12 because of foot surgery.


We are doing "okay" Saturday was good but still pretty shallow compared to real good seasons. It keeps snowing inches instead of feet. We haven't had a multiple day storm yet this season...it does a foot and then sunny mid 50's for 2 weeks. The sides of the road are clean almost all the way up. Sad.


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## surfinsnow (Feb 4, 2010)

KIRKRIDER said:


> We are doing "okay" Saturday was good but still pretty shallow compared to real good seasons. It keeps snowing inches instead of feet. We haven't had a multiple day storm yet this season...it does a foot and then sunny mid 50's for 2 weeks. The sides of the road are clean almost all the way up. Sad.


That's funny...I always find half the rush of riding Tahoe is driving through Emerald Bay or the Carson Pass to Kirkwood. The year we had about 10 feet of snow in the Donner Pass was a trip, too. "Don't honk the car horn!" :laugh:


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## EastCoastChris (Feb 24, 2013)

Ohhh damn really? Thats just the pass on 50 going to south Tahoe you need chains on right? Yeah I cant take the risk. She really is craaaaaa-zeee. 
I saw all the signs on 80, chain installation area etc. But I just assumed it was toi late in the season for blizzard. It was a little hairy in places but didnt seem like I'd get stuck up there.

I'm looking forward to SugarBowl now! Yeah EastCoast run down is totally different than the Cali version. Cali is all about style I'm finding out. I need to get a sexier car! Lol

Thanks y'all for the help!


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## surfinsnow (Feb 4, 2010)

EastCoastChris said:


> Ohhh damn really? Thats just the pass on 50 going to south Tahoe you need chains on right? Yeah I cant take the risk. She really is craaaaaa-zeee.
> I saw all the signs on 80, chain installation area etc. But I just assumed it was toi late in the season for blizzard. It was a little hairy in places but didnt seem like I'd get stuck up there.
> 
> I'm looking forward to SugarBowl now! Yeah EastCoast run down is totally different than the Cali version. Cali is all about style I'm finding out. I need to get a sexier car! Lol
> ...


You don't need chains as long as you have a 4x4 with those good tires -- they have red and yellow dots on the sidewalls. That's what CalTrans looks for. If you don't have a 4x4, you need chains. Hopefully you'll get enough snow too need them!


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## hellside (Dec 28, 2008)

surfinsnow said:


> You don't need chains as long as you have a 4x4 with those good tires -- they have red and yellow dots on the sidewalls. That's what CalTrans looks for. If you don't have a 4x4, you need chains. Hopefully you'll get enough snow too need them!


4 x 4 actually is required to carry chains. Caltrans will not ask you to put it on but they will ask if you carry chains sometimes.


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## EastCoastChris (Feb 24, 2013)

You guys have a shit tonof regulations here in Cali. Did you know there is Agricultural Inspection Station if you come in to Truckee from Reno. I saw the sign riiight when I was about to fishbowl the car. Whoooooaaaaa.

I have All Wheel Drive, which I guess is different than full time 4wd. Its a Fusion Sport. Decent car but wont make it out of a blizzard. Its ok because the extended forecast says no precip anyway. 

So I want to do this weekend and the 31st. But will Tahoe squeeze in at least one in April?


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## extra0 (Jan 16, 2010)

you mean another snow storm?

Typically, april will have at least one good foot+ dump...but I wouldn't trust anything this season. 

We also haven't received the massive 5 to 10 foot dump we usually get in March (in 2011, it was a 12 foot dump - no bullshit). That storm last week might be the last decent one of this season - you never know.


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## KIRKRIDER (Mar 18, 2008)

hellside said:


> 4 x 4 actually is required to carry chains. Caltrans will not ask you to put it on but they will ask if you carry chains sometimes.


You'll be safe on All Season tires too...and in 5 years CALTRANS never even stopped me. If they see a Subaru they let you pass..along with all AWD cars with AS tires. For AWD or 4X4 you would need 2 sets of chains.


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## glaucon (Jan 3, 2013)

KIRKRIDER said:


> You'll be safe on All Season tires too...and in 5 years CALTRANS never even stopped me. If they see a Subaru they let you pass..along with all AWD cars with AS tires. For AWD or 4X4 you would need 2 sets of chains.


When the most common chain controls are in effect (R1), all-seasons are acceptable for 4/all-wheel drive per the regulations because they are "M/S" or "M+S" (mud and snow). These qualify as "snow tires" Caltrans Winter Driving Tips Chain Controls

If you do want to put chains on a AWD, you don't need two sets of chains. They (including Subaru) suggest just putting them on the front tires. I had to do this when I was driving up with my stock summer tires on my WRX in December but have since switched to AS. I would still use chains with all-seasons, even if they weren't technically required, if the conditions were especially hairy. There really is no reason not be as safe as possible driving in winding mountain roads with an abundance of idiots. AWD doesn't add any advantage when you're trying to stop.


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## KIRKRIDER (Mar 18, 2008)

glaucon said:


> When the most common chain controls are in effect (R1), all-seasons are acceptable for 4/all-wheel drive per the regulations because they are "M/S" or "M+S" (mud and snow). These qualify as "snow tires" Caltrans Winter Driving Tips Chain Controls
> 
> If you do want to put chains on a AWD, you don't need two sets of chains. They (including Subaru) suggest just putting them on the front tires. I had to do this when I was driving up with my stock summer tires on my WRX in December but have since switched to AS. I would still use chains with all-seasons, even if they weren't technically required, if the conditions were especially hairy. There really is no reason not be as safe as possible driving in winding mountain roads with an abundance of idiots. AWD doesn't add any advantage when you're trying to stop.



Hey it's your car. In 5 years of going up and down in every condition I never needed chains on AS tires. The only time I had problems was when CALTRANS could not open the Spur for avy control. No one could pass at that point. Not even the huge yellow Hummer with humongous tires :laugh:
I drive early in the morning. Along with few other pow addicted usually able to drive on snow kind of people  Most incident I saw involved jacked up 4x4 trucks and weekend warriors.


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## glaucon (Jan 3, 2013)

KIRKRIDER said:


> Hey it's your car. In 5 years of going up and down in every condition I never needed chains on AS tires. The only time I had problems was when CALTRANS could not open the Spur for avy control. No one could pass at that point. Not even the huge yellow Hummer with humongous tires :laugh:
> I drive early in the morning. Along with few other pow addicted usually able to drive on snow kind of people  Most incident I saw involved jacked up 4x4 trucks and weekend warriors.


Yeah, I'm sure you're right.

I really only used chains on my all-seasons once and that was because my pregnant sister-in-law was in the car and was nervous. I didn't feel like they were necessary. I drove up this past weekend when it was snowing (friday evening) and didn't have any problems without chains. This is also my first season living in the norcal area so I wasn't sure what to expect. That said, I've never had any issues driving the WRX in snow, even when I drove 3 hours in a 19 inch east coast dump a couple years ago in unchained summer tires. :thumbsup: I love that car!


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## surfinsnow (Feb 4, 2010)

Not a lot of people realize that virtually all AWD cars and SUVs are actually just FRONT Wheel Drive. The "all wheel" only kicks in when the on-board computer detects slippage. At which point your ESC might also kick in. There is almost always an AWD Lock button, along with an ESC defeat button, which allows you to turn on the drivetrain to all four wheels, while telling the onboard computer to stop trying to compensate for the slippery road (the ESC can be a bitch, take over your throttle and brakes if it thinks you're slipping -- in heavy snow, you want to have control yourself, not rely on a computer chip which can't tell there is a hairpin turn ahead). You have to keep your speed lower, but you probably are anyway if the conditions are that bad. 

Also, I don't think AS tires are considered the same as M+S tires. M+S have the yellow and red dot on the sidewhile, and CalTrans considers them okay for R1 conditions. But they're not the same as AS tires, which I believe only have a yellow dot on the sidewall. It's spelled out in the CalTrans regulations. 

I have AS tires on my AWD SUV, which is sufficient for Vermont conditions, but I'd never consider driving through the pass to Kirkwood on them if it was snowing hard. The M+S tires have a much deeper, beefier tread.


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## KIRKRIDER (Mar 18, 2008)

surfinsnow said:


> Not a lot of people realize that virtually all AWD cars and SUVs are actually just FRONT Wheel Drive. The "all wheel" only kicks in when the on-board computer detects slippage. At which point your ESC might also kick in. There is almost always an AWD Lock button, along with an ESC defeat button, which allows you to turn on the drivetrain to all four wheels, while telling the onboard computer to stop trying to compensate for the slippery road (the ESC can be a bitch, take over your throttle and brakes if it thinks you're slipping -- in heavy snow, you want to have control yourself, not rely on a computer chip which can't tell there is a hairpin turn ahead). You have to keep your speed lower, but you probably are anyway if the conditions are that bad.
> 
> Also, I don't think AS tires are considered the same as M+S tires. M+S have the yellow and red dot on the sidewhile, and CalTrans considers them okay for R1 conditions. But they're not the same as AS tires, which I believe only have a yellow dot on the sidewall. It's spelled out in the CalTrans regulations.
> 
> I have AS tires on my AWD SUV, which is sufficient for Vermont conditions, but I'd never consider driving through the pass to Kirkwood on them if it was snowing hard. The M+S tires have a much deeper, beefier tread.


not all AWD are equal...











Subaru Impreza WRX STi (2005-2008)(Edit)

Full-time all wheel drive with *35/65*(?) torque split front-to-rear under normal conditions. Driver-controllable Center Differential System (DCCD).

“Helical-type” front differential (2005-... WRX STI), varies the torque delivered to the left and right axle shafts, depending on traction and engine load. Instead of locking the output shafts so that they rotate at the same speed, this differential sends more torque to the wheel with more grip. In addition, it makes a gradual adjustment for a more fluid response.

Full-Time All Wheel Drive

This is a permanent all wheel drive or permanently engaged all wheel drive system. All wheels are powered at all times. The vehicles with full-time all wheel drive are equipped with a center differential that lets all wheels travel different distances while turning. This type of all wheel drive can be used both on and off road. In slippery conditions, the center differential can be locked, whether manually or automatically, depending on the vehicle.

When a manual center differential lock (available on off-road vehicles and some SUVs) is engaged, the transmission's behavior is similar to part-time all wheel drive, i.e. the front and rear driveshafts rotate at the same speed. The use of full-time all wheel drive with locked center differential is limited to surfaces with low traction.

In case of an automatic lock, a Torsen differential, viscous coupling, multi-plate hydraulic clutch, or similar traction device is used in conjunction with the center differential. When a wheel slip occurs (one driveshaft rotates faster than the other) the device locks the center differential and the torque is transferred from the axle that slips to the other axle that has traction. As soon as the wheel slip is eliminated, the device unlocks.

Some vehicles (Land Rover Discovery II, pre-xDrive BMW X5) do not have a locking center differential, but are equipped with an electronic traction control system (known as Electronic Differential Lock - EDL) on all four wheels. This electronic system detects slipping wheels by reading ABS sensors, then it applies brakes to the slipping wheels and the torque gets transferred to the wheels that have traction. While it performs well on slippery roads, the system cannot compete with a real mechanically locking differential when driving off-road.


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## kctahoe (Nov 14, 2010)

hellside said:


> 4 x 4 actually is required to carry chains. Caltrans will not ask you to put it on but they will ask if you carry chains sometimes.


In my 5 years of driving up to Tahoe I've never been stopped by cal trans and asked about chains in my 4x4.


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## Kauila (Jan 7, 2011)

I drive a Subaru Forester with M+S tires and carry chains with me whenever I drive into Tahoe in the winter or early spring. I've never had to use them, though; Cal-Trans usually sees that I have a Subie and waves me through.

If road conditions are such that chains are required on AWD, well, those are conditions _I_ don't want to be driving in anyway (I'm a wimp)


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## hellside (Dec 28, 2008)

kctahoe said:


> In my 5 years of driving up to Tahoe I've never been stopped by cal trans and asked about chains in my 4x4.


I have been asked twice on my way to Kirkwood during weekday. They still let me thru even I didn't have chains. Now I always carry chains. 

I don't think Caltrans check tires at all. The most important thing is to have good tires.


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## surfinsnow (Feb 4, 2010)

hellside said:


> I have been asked twice on my way to Kirkwood during weekday. They still let me thru even I didn't have chains. Now I always carry chains.
> 
> I don't think Caltrans check tires at all. The most important thing is to have good tires.


I don't think CalTrans "checks" tires...but they can see if you have those red and yellow stamps on the sidewalls. I've never been stopped, but we always rent a full-on 4x4 with M+S tires. The rental companies expressly say you CANNOT use chains on their vehicles. It's in the rental contract. If you do, and the chains break or cause any sort of damage, there is a hefty fee added on to your rental bill. Point being, even is some serious-assed storms driving through Carson up to Kirkwood, a good 4x4 with good tires is sufficient (though the drive is still hairy).


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## glaucon (Jan 3, 2013)

surfinsnow said:


> I don't think CalTrans "checks" tires...but they can see if you have those red and yellow stamps on the sidewalls. I've never been stopped, but we always rent a full-on 4x4 with M+S tires. The rental companies expressly say you CANNOT use chains on their vehicles. It's in the rental contract. If you do, and the chains break or cause any sort of damage, there is a hefty fee added on to your rental bill. Point being, even is some serious-assed storms driving through Carson up to Kirkwood, a good 4x4 with good tires is sufficient (though the drive is still hairy).


I'm not sure what these red and yellow stamps are that you're talking about. I have M+S tires and I don't have any colored stamps. Nowadays, most if not all "all-seasons" are rated M+S. "Snow tires" are something else beyond M+S and are only good for winter driving (marked with a mountain and snowflake). It's confusing because the Caltrans regulations refer to "snow tires" but they define "snow tires" as including merely M+S. So the regs do not actually require true "snow tires." Typical M+S all-seasons are adequate.

That said, I used to put chains on my WRX when it had summer tires. At one of the chain checkpoints, the guy waved me by when he saw that I had a subaru but at the last second he told me to stop. He asked why the hell I had chains on a Subaru. I told him it's because I had summer tires and he laughed and said get the hell outta here.


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## KIRKRIDER (Mar 18, 2008)

Not to steal the topic, but since we are talking about cars and Kwood...how gnarly is to sleep in your car in the parking lot? The closed the hostel and I don't have a trailer...yet...so that's my only option.

Yes I'm a cheap season pass holder


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## surfinsnow (Feb 4, 2010)

*Okay, I got some bullshit info...*



glaucon said:


> I'm not sure what these red and yellow stamps are that you're talking about. I have M+S tires and I don't have any colored stamps. Nowadays, most if not all "all-seasons" are rated M+S. "Snow tires" are something else beyond M+S and are only good for winter driving (marked with a mountain and snowflake). It's confusing because the Caltrans regulations refer to "snow tires" but they define "snow tires" as including merely M+S. So the regs do not actually require true "snow tires." Typical M+S all-seasons are adequate.
> 
> That said, I used to put chains on my WRX when it had summer tires. At one of the chain checkpoints, the guy waved me by when he saw that I had a subaru but at the last second he told me to stop. He asked why the hell I had chains on a Subaru. I told him it's because I had summer tires and he laughed and said get the hell outta here.


In doing some more research, I've found that the red and yellow dots are balance points indicating the high and low points on the tire, for the benefit of the installer -- they indicate where to balance the tire. This is bizarre, because in California we were told something totally different, and everything backed it up...there were no standard/small cars with the dots. We only saw them on larger SUVs and 4x4's. 

I just did some Googling, and a couple of different sources said the same thing...the dots are reference points for the balance of the tire.

Now I wonder about the last shitty tires I bought. I asked for OEM tires, because the were awesome (Bridgestones). He sold me on some Hankooks, which were much cheaper. They SUCKED. And they didn't have the dots I was told about while in Tahoe. I replaced them with some new tires last Novermber, and the new ones have the dots (the Hankooks didn't). Hmm. So what is the real story? I need some more research!

Sorry for providing wrong info, but it was "real" at the time!  I'll update, and I look forward to tire geeks telling me what the deal with the dots is.


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## glaucon (Jan 3, 2013)

surfinsnow said:


> In doing some more research, I've found that the red and yellow dots are balance points indicating the high and low points on the tire, for the benefit of the installer -- they indicate where to balance the tire. This is bizarre, because in California we were told something totally different, and everything backed it up...there were no standard/small cars with the dots. We only saw them on larger SUVs and 4x4's.
> 
> I just did some Googling, and a couple of different sources said the same thing...the dots are reference points for the balance of the tire.
> 
> ...


Haha, let the dots go, man. Whatever they are, they're not important. If someone says they are, turn around and walk out the door.

Bridgestone makes great tires, I don't know much about Hankook. Tirerack.com does a good job of reviewing and is a good source of information.

ps - I'm glad you did some research and deleted your previous post; I was about to flip out


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## surfinsnow (Feb 4, 2010)

glaucon said:


> Haha, let the dots go, man. Whatever they are, they're not important. If someone says they are, turn around and walk out the door.
> 
> Bridgestone makes great tires, I don't know much about Hankook. Tirerack.com does a good job of reviewing and is a good source of information.
> 
> ps - I'm glad you did some research and deleted your previous post; I was about to flip out


Thanks for talking me down!

Even when I replaced my shitty Hankook tires (one had an uneven tread, and it when "thump thump thump thump" all the time), I asked the my trusted mechanic (instead of Town Fair Tire, which I'll NEVER go to again) about the M+S and the dots...he never mentioned the dots. Just said that he'd get me some serious M+S tires. Which he did. He's alway done right by me...but he never questioned it when I mentioned the red and yellow dots. I feel like a chump, although maybe the balancing dots aren't really an issue on small tires. On 18" wheels, I can see that maybe it more of an issue. 

Oh well, live and learn. My new tires have deep snow treads and I'm happy.


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