# Layers vs insulated jacket



## Gregor Mahler (Jan 18, 2017)

Pretty sure this has already been covered. My old jacket is. TNF in goretex and insulated, nothing too bulky, with all the zips at the right places and bought more than 10y ago.
Now shopping for a new jkt but it seems the trend is now shell + a layer underneath. Main advantage : flexibility, they say. You can go hiking, snowshoeing etc or snowboarding, just change the midlayer and you are ready to go. 
Disregarding for a second price considerations, what's your preference? I use to have just 3 layers in total (first, Mid, jacket). But how many with the shell? At least 4 I guess?
I am very confused and not yet sure I should switch to the modern layering style instead of buying a newer insulated jacket (not down,nothing too warm). What would you recommend? Any hint is appreciated. I am looking at Arcteryx/patagonia solutions. Or at Mammut Stoney insulated goretex jacket .
Thanks


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## ekb18c (Mar 11, 2013)

I do believe this has been covered many times before here but I prefer to do a merino wool base layer, a mid layer, then patagonia nano vest, and finally the Sidewinder from Arcteryx.

Works great for me as that keeps me warm on 0 F days but I usually run hot overall. During warmer temps, I can take off the vest or the mid layer. Best part is that I can use my shell as a rain jacket during spring and fall.


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## freshy (Nov 18, 2009)

There is nothing new or modern about layering, this has been a thing since I started in 1988 and was not new then either.
I have a shell and wear 2 layers under it unless it drops below -15C then it's 3. You need to have good quality base layers like merino wool or synthetic material, and having different thicknesses is the key to keeping layers down to a minimum. Same thing for mid layers micro fleece, wool, and synthetic sweaters all make for a good selection based on the weather. I have a fleece or puffy vest if it gets super cold but that is seriously like 0-2 times a year I put one of those on.
Layering socks and gloves with a thin synthetic layer first also make a huge difference.

If your looking at Patagonia you probably have money to drop on Smart Wool or Icebreaker base layers. IMO this is the most important layer and is the key to keeping warm and dry.

Shells are way more versatile and insulated is more convenient and really only suck in the spring.


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## virtu (Jan 22, 2016)

Ok... I think I can have some good points here 

I am originally from Brazil and spent 33 years down there where winter never goes below -5C, barely goes to 0C, and in average is always +10C.
Then I moved to Alberta, Canada, and started snowboarding... for me layer is the key to hold up to -30C.

Bottom:
2 or 3 socks: normally moist and breathable as the first layer, thicker wool as the second or last layer, and if need more, another wool on top of the other 2.
1 or 2 long johns: same idea of socks. Moist and breathable first, but if it's too cold I prefer to use some sweatpants as a second layer or a really thick underwear.
1 snowboard shell pants: nothing insulated, can turn out too hot. I had insulated pants but when it was too cold was not enough and when it was warm it was too much, Sold it and bought a shell.

Top:
2 base layers: most and breathable first, thicker as a second layer.
1 mid layer: normally an old wool sweater is a really good idea, it will warm the base layers and also keep the moisture off of your body.
1 vest: here I like to use any kind of vest. I like to try to keep my upper body warm to avoid any issue breathing cold air.
1 snowboard shell jacket: waterproof and no insulation.

About materials, I prefer to use regular wool or merino wool over any kind of synthetic materials/fabrics as under layers, but synthetic materials are really ok too and sometimes cheaper.

Right now is -29C with the real feel around -25C and next Sunday I am planning to hit the slopes if I don't freeze until there.


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## ekb18c (Mar 11, 2013)

2 or 3 pairs of socks? What?


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

virtu said:


> 2 or 3 socks: normally moist and breathable as the first layer, thicker wool as the second or last layer, and if need more, another wool on top of the other 2.


Get yourself Lenz heating socks. 1 thin sock, never cold feet.
This layering sounds like a recipe for blisters and ill fitting boots.


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## say chi sin lo (Oct 15, 2009)

I'm kind of in your boat. My last ski jacket was from 10 years ago, only it was one of those 3-in-1 jackets. Also, I never had Gortex before so I wanted to try it out.

I ended up buying this, and I'll have to admit, half of the reasoning was because of the awesome colorway  :

https://www.thenorthface.com/shop/mens-maching-jacket-nf0a34na?variationId=UBX

I hated my old Columbia 3-in-1 jacket because it felt bulky when it's fully assembled. 10 years later, I'm quite impressed by improvement in insulation technology since and this jacket is still quite thin.

I prefer a lightly insulated jacket so I can make more use out of it (not just for snowboarding).


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## virtu (Jan 22, 2016)

neni said:


> Get yourself Lenz heating socks. 1 thin sock, never cold feet.
> 
> This layering sounds like a recipe for blisters and ill fitting boots.




Dr. Wired already helped me with my boots last year, went down from size 13 to 11 (and maybe 10.5).

For lucky never had blisters because the boot fits well, but the heating socks is a really nice idea. Thanks.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Gregor Mahler (Jan 18, 2017)

THANKS everyone for the replies

1- versatility for the shell as rain jacket: i have obviously other shells for summer/spring, and they dont have the snowskirt, which might be weird when not snowing
2- to those who use just 3 layers: having first layer, puff and shell: when you stop for lunch are you left with just the first layer? never seen anyone eating with first layer only...
3- midlayer: this is where I am a bit lost, torn between synthetic or down puff, and also between material which is windproof or not. Seriously dont understand why it has to be windproof since the last external layer is supposed to be windproof


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## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

layer, use merino...and pay attention to the venting and size options of the shell...which to a large extent will depend on the intended use of said shell. For example, I don't like my Arcteryx due to the more tailored fit, lack of bigger pockets; it is fine for going out to the bar. Where as prefer my Trew jacket on the hill because of the venting, pockets and looser fit...which makes it more efficient at things like jacketing skins, carrying a burrito and mitts, venting to dry out during a run...and etc.


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## kriegs13 (Nov 28, 2016)

ekb18c said:


> 2 or 3 pairs of socks? What?


yeah..i think anyone wearing three pairs of socks during a physical activity is in some form of violation of the geneva convention


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