# Burton Restricted Mission bindings - bad ratchets?



## Extremo (Nov 6, 2008)

In my experience this is normal for Burton's toe ratchets and toe straps.

I find that the trick is to push down on the lever while you ratchet so it doesn't lift and skip. You have to figure out at what point the angle of the strap starts to twist to the point it starts to strip. You won't get a tight fit but at least you won't ruin the ladders anymore. 

With the toe straps you will have some lift. They're meant to cap so they pull the boot back into the binding, not down to the edge the way other, more convertible straps do. With the play between the boot and the binding it really lacks response, which is why I got rid of them. 

I'm a fan of Union, you won't find any of these issues to be a problem. I recommend the Force or the Atlas. 

Ride are also super solid. I'd recommend the Rodeo.


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## Supra (Jan 11, 2012)

burton has the best ratchets in the business. Were the bindings new?

Anyways, you say things like, 'the highback are no way near the boots'...did you adjust the forward lean?

You could be trying to tighten the straps too tight


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## tokyo_dom (Jan 7, 2013)

Hmmm, perhaps i am trying for something too tight - all my bindings until now have been the oldschool over-the-toe type so i am just getting used to this toe cap thing. I just know i will get snow packed in that gap that i get (maybe thats supposed to happen?)

The bindings were brand new, all the mounting hardware was unused and there were no marks on them until i got into it . I bought them on an Auction so it was from an individual, but it came with a valid warranty card from 24th Dec (unwanted xmas gift i guess), and the shop is near me so i am good for warranty

As for the highbacks, i guess i could adjust the forward lean. I was just expecting a "like a glove fit" since they are both burton, same season, similar level. The main reason for the gap there is the canted highback. The boot sits straight up where the highback is leaning off to the side. Even when strapped into the board, i had to use a fair bit of inwards pressure to get the boots to line up with the highback.

I think i will bring them to the shop that sold them and ask them to check if the freeplay/fitment/ratcheting is right. Perhaps i did get dodgy bindings (i noticed that the left side, toe ratchet loses traction much quicker than the other 3 ratchets - which is bad, because i ride goofy (thats the side that will get the most loosening/tightening action.

If they say the ratchets are as they are supposed to be, i think i will put them up for sale. They are only 300g lighter than my old bindings (Salomon speedfits), and they just dont feel as good as i was expecting them to (would feel ripped if i had paid the $390 that these retail for here!)


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## dreampow (Sep 26, 2011)

No offense intended, but it sounds like you need to learn how to set up your bindings properly. If you look up on youtube you can find all the info. You may need to adjust the high back position, strap lengths and gas pedal. Or better still take them into the shop and let them set them up for you. Maybe they can check your stance too because for me the canted highbacks (cartels) are spot on when I am riding and my legs and boots are also at an angle.

Also you don't have to crank down that hard on the ratchets which are widely acknowledged to be the smoothest out there. Once you get it properly set up and spend a day riding them come back and tell us how it went.

I expect you will like them cause they are very good bindings for the money.

It is possible that you have a faulty pair (all manufacturing produces some faulty goods) but lets see once you get it set up.


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## jdthai (Feb 15, 2012)

I was a bit worried about my new (to me) missions, the first time out.
I have been riding Flow system, so the toe ratchet was new to me.
The first couple of times, I was worried about how the toe strap skipped on me. I was worried it might not be tight enough.
After a few hours, I got used to it. It skips when it's tight. That tells me I'm ready to go. The toe ladder was a little stripped, though. I took them to my local shop. The boys there threw me some "new" straps they took off a pair of bindings they were using for parts. I threw them $20 for their troubles. The ratchet still skips, but I'm no longer worried. I've had them out several times, and have felt great on groomers and park.
Take them out and you'll see.


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## tokyo_dom (Jan 7, 2013)

Thanks and no offence taken about being a noob when it comes to bindings setup. I had a few "uhh... i *think* thats right" moments while bolting these in (the bindings themselves seem to be set up for a midget shoe or something because out of the box i couldnt even get the ankle strap to ratchet on over my size 9 boots.

I will go to the shop tomorrow hopefully and see if they can help me set them up.


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## Supra (Jan 11, 2012)

maybe throw up some pics for us? i just looked up the bindings and they should have the 2012 cartel highbacks, which were pretty straight


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## tokyo_dom (Jan 7, 2013)

I am at work now, but these are the bindings i have:
Mission EST Snowboard Binding | Burton Snowboards










So the top of the highback is about an inch or more off-centre compared to the boot


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## tokyo_dom (Jan 7, 2013)

oops, it was the regular baseplate model, not EST... but the highback part is identical


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## Supra (Jan 11, 2012)

and you've put them on with the highbacks leaning in towards each other, right?


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## tokyo_dom (Jan 7, 2013)

LOL yes - that much i did understand (it had the left and right tags on the insides of the straps too)

Its not a massive lean, but if you imagine the boot standing perfectly straight compared to that, it is quite off-centre.

I remember when the shop salesperson was first trying to convince me to get the burton bindings, he put a burton boot in a burton binding and said "look, see how the highback is perfectly matched, and how it sits so snugly in the rear cradle - thats because they are both Burton." It just didnt feel so snug for me. I will try to take some actual pics tonight to show the differences


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## Supra (Jan 11, 2012)

is your stance wide enough?


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## bseracka (Nov 14, 2011)

You do realize the highbacks are supposed to be offcenter on your boots, right? Those highbacks are specifically designed that way for a different feel and support while riding. You may also need to shorten the toe strap for a more secure fit


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## tokyo_dom (Jan 7, 2013)

Thanks to all those that gave suggestions, on the snow i found that it wasnt as big of a problem as i had thought. The ankle strap is fine, albeit a little time consuming. For the toe strap on the left foot, i do think there is an issue though. If i take my time, and apply enough pressure to the front of the ratchet, i can tighten it enough to have no lift of the toe

But this is the ladder after 4hrs on the snow:









And thats not because i am being hamfisted and overtightening. I am only matching the relative tightness i am getting on the right side

Looks like my problem starts here:









the other side doesnt have that bevel, and i suspect thats why this side slips so quickly (the ankle strap is fine)

Anyway, i am going to the shop to get the ladder/strap replaced. Though that is just the start of my problems. The Ambush boots which felt so snug in the store (i got the display model so the left side was slightly more 'worn in' than the right side) turned into boots from hell on the snow. The right side boot felt way too tight, pretty much instantly causing my foot to cramp up. I loosened the inners all the way, and the bottom portion of the quicklace was completely loose, but i still lost feeling in my little toe on the right side after 5 minutes, and spent the rest of the afternoon in pain (only the right side). Hoping they can use the heatgun to mould it larger, because i could only stand it for 4hrs and my foot is still sore today.

I think i should have gone for a real cant system though. My knees hurt today, which i have not had before. To the poster that asked my stance, its 53.34cm (21") stance width, I am 171cm/5'8", with a 76cm/30" inseam (self measured)

Overall, i am fairly disappointed at having dropped $500+ on my first decent branded setup, only to come out with more pains than my previous cheap setups caused :icon_scratch: Lets see what the shop can suggest


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## AssassinMonLV (Jan 15, 2013)

Burton has poor quality stuff for their affordable price point. If you got maybe a set of Cartel's you would have been fine. I feel that Burton doesn't put enough of their time in their "affordable" things. The cheaper boards, boots, and bindings are really bad. I would suggest staying away from their lower end stuff and going for their higher end things. Or going with anything Ride, or Rome. They have excellent, solid, and durable stuff.


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## hktrdr (Apr 3, 2012)

tokyo_dom said:


> I think i should have gone for a real cant system though. My knees hurt today, which i have not had before. To the poster that asked my stance, its 53.34cm (25") stance width, I am 171cm/5'8", with a 76cm/36" inseam (self measured)


Dude, you got to work on your metric/imperial conversions:

54.34cm is 21" - which incidentally sounds about right. 25" would be massive - you would have a really hard time turning the board with that.
76cm is not 36", it is just under 30".


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## tokyo_dom (Jan 7, 2013)

AssassinMonLV said:


> Burton has poor quality stuff for their affordable price point. If you got maybe a set of Cartel's you would have been fine. I feel that Burton doesn't put enough of their time in their "affordable" things. The cheaper boards, boots, and bindings are really bad. I would suggest staying away from their lower end stuff and going for their higher end things. Or going with anything Ride, or Rome. They have excellent, solid, and durable stuff.


I got the impression that the Missions were basically the same as last year's cartels? Either way, the guy at the shop agreed that the toe strap was dodgy. Unfortunately they didnt have spare parts so it is being sent back for warranty and hopefully will have it back for next weekend.

As for the boots, apparently the heat molding is only possible on the top-end boots, and he reminded me that i needed to spend at least 30 minutes wearing the boots in the house/warm temperature. Being that my house is shoes-off, i spent the rest of the day shopping while wearing the boots (yeah i felt like lil wayne). My feet werent sore after that so i hope it will be ok at the snow.



hktrdr said:


> Dude, you got to work on your metric/imperial conversions:
> 
> 54.34cm is 21" - which incidentally sounds about right. 25" would be massive - you would have a really hard time turning the board with that.
> 76cm is not 36", it is just under 30".


Whoops! Thanks, i have updated the post


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## Supra (Jan 11, 2012)

AssassinMonLV said:


> Burton has poor quality stuff for their affordable price point. If you got maybe a set of Cartel's you would have been fine. I feel that Burton doesn't put enough of their time in their "affordable" things. The cheaper boards, boots, and bindings are really bad. I would suggest staying away from their lower end stuff and going for their higher end things. Or going with anything Ride, or Rome. They have excellent, solid, and durable stuff.


i guess you didn't read what he bought. Mission bindings are not low quality. wayyyyyy better than anything from Ride hahahahahahahaha


to the OP, wear just the inners around your house. I'm in the process of breaking in a pair. At first, just start with short time periods. Don't let it get too painful otherwise you'll develop a bruise that won't heal til the season's over. Sounds like your bindings should be warrantied (which you're doing) and maybe your boots too.


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## tokyo_dom (Jan 7, 2013)

Thanks, that makes sense. Will start wearing the inners only around the house



Supra said:


> Don't let it get too painful otherwise you'll develop a bruise that won't heal til the season's over


Ouch. I spent 4hrs snowboarding in a fair amount of pain (enough for my little toe to go numb). I can somewhat feel the pain now. Hopefully I havent bruised/damaged anything there


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## Extremo (Nov 6, 2008)

Supra said:


> i guess you didn't read what he bought. Mission bindings are not low quality. wayyyyyy better than anything from Ride hahahahahahahaha


Please tell me you're joking.


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## AssassinMonLV (Jan 15, 2013)

tokyo_dom said:


> I got the impression that the Missions were basically the same as last year's cartels? Either way, the guy at the shop agreed that the toe strap was dodgy. Unfortunately they didnt have spare parts so it is being sent back for warranty and hopefully will have it back for next weekend.
> 
> As for the boots, apparently the heat molding is only possible on the top-end boots, and he reminded me that i needed to spend at least 30 minutes wearing the boots in the house/warm temperature. Being that my house is shoes-off, i spent the rest of the day shopping while wearing the boots (yeah i felt like lil wayne). My feet werent sore after that so i hope it will be ok at the snow.


I'm not so sure on the Missions being last years Cartels; however, I find that any boots, and bindings under 200 dollars from Burton are pretty shoddy. I had a 2 pairs of Moto boots from them that lasted only two seasons before the stitching came undone, teh leather started to tear, and the lasces starting to fray. I had a pair of missions that lasted also 2 seasons before the ladders started to strip, and the ratchets kept slipping. So I switched my bindings to Ride and Rome, and have no trouble with any of their bindings going on 3 seasons now and got a higher end Burton Boot, the Restricted Hail (Burton really has nice, comfortable boots). I also live near Mt. Hood so I get in nearly 100+ days in. So my stuff has to be pretty solid, so maybe that's why the my Missions deterioated so fast, but that still isn't an excuse to make a poor quality binding, especially at that price point.


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## AssassinMonLV (Jan 15, 2013)

I hope he is.


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## AssassinMonLV (Jan 15, 2013)

Supra said:


> i guess you didn't read what he bought. Mission bindings are not low quality. wayyyyyy better than anything from Ride hahahahahahahaha
> 
> 
> to the OP, wear just the inners around your house. I'm in the process of breaking in a pair. At first, just start with short time periods. Don't let it get too painful otherwise you'll develop a bruise that won't heal til the season's over. Sounds like your bindings should be warrantied (which you're doing) and maybe your boots too.


You're joking right? Nothing Burton makes matches the quality of Ride and Rome bindings. Most of their stuff is overpriced garbage. Basically anything under 200 dollars from Burton sucks and deteriorates fast. It's all right to have your own opinion, but Missions are pretty low quality.


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## BurtonBindings (Dec 16, 2012)

ahem.

AssassinMonLV,

I'm going to give you a little insight into our buckles. 
1. We invented the self retracting buckle which first appeared on our 1995 binding line. One of the engineers on that project was Paul Maravetz. He's also largely responsible for the Burton Custom and Balance boards models. Now he's the co-owner of Rome snowboards and their principle board engineer. He's an incredible engineer and phenomenally nice guy.

2. Starting in 2002, 10 buckles produced out of each production lot, per hour, are put through a cycle test at -20 degrees F. They are cycled 5,000 times by a machines that we engineered and then made because we can't walk into a hardware store and buy a machine to test the things we make. 

An average snowboarder rides roughly 7 days a year. They take 10 runs per day. And they cycle the lever 4 times before taking each run. That means in an average season half of the buckles (due to the front boot strapped and being cycled less) we make see 280 cycles.

After that testing, we have a crew of on-snow testers that will ride each binding model we make from between 40 and 200 hours. Some even up to 900 hours.

Some folks, as our customers or potential customers, ride more and some less, but our buckles are tested to not fail for 17 seasons and not break.

Some do and we totally get that. That's why we have a spare parts department that determines the failure rate in the field (real world environment) and places spare parts into resort and city shops to a replacement can easily be found.

Why? Because we know that a buckle get's touched more than any other component that we make. The more something gets touched, the more prone it is to failure.

3. the issue that tokyo_dom is experiencing is due to this:
- the metal lever is attached to metal teeth in a single component. the tongue is a softer polymer call TPU (thermo poly-urethane). The metal, a cast molded 6061 Aluminum, is wearing the teeth on the TPU tongue because the users hand is twisting the lever a little bit. It's common and it's not that big of a deal. In fact it basically happens with every buckle and tongue combo in the industry.

So, our upper binding models over $200.00 US Dollars have a dual component buckle where the barrel of the buckle (which had the teeth) is plastic, polycarbonate to be specific, and operate somewhat independently of the metal lever. As the teeth on the barrel and tongue (TPU Ladder Strap) are both a plastic, it is less likely to wear either part.

This buckle which is featured on all Burton Bindings above $200.00 USD, has more parts, enough that we can only afford to put in on higher end models due to how many parts it has. 

All that said; i'm sorry you feel like our craftsmanship below a Cartel is shoddy or sub-par. But it's tested to the exact same standards as our highest end bindings and have been for over a decade.

Should you have any further questions, I'd gladly have a conversation with you about what specifically in the product that we make is felt to be sub-par assuming that this is not a faceless and uneducated comment based on your thought or thoughts / opinions towards the brand i'm employed by and not the quantitative quality of the product that myself and my team make. 
Honestly.

Regards,
Chip Bleakney
Burton Bindings _ Product Manager


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## Supra (Jan 11, 2012)

^^^ great post


and I wasn't joking. I have to admit though, I have never ridden Ride or Rome bindings. I did pick up some capos and another pair of Ride's in the store 2 days ago while I was waiting for my wife to get some stuff. All I could think was how Burton's manufacturing is so smooth compared to Ride's.


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## tokyo_dom (Jan 7, 2013)

BurtonBindings said:


> 3. the issue that tokyo_dom is experiencing is due to this:
> - the metal lever is attached to metal teeth in a single component. the tongue is a softer polymer call TPU (thermo poly-urethane). The metal, a cast molded 6061 Aluminum, is wearing the teeth on the TPU tongue because the users hand is twisting the lever a little bit. It's common and it's not that big of a deal. In fact it basically happens with every buckle and tongue combo in the industry.


Thanks for the response (even if it was mainly for AssasinMonLV). As for the twisting of the hand, I spent some time looking at the angles of the teeth vs the ladder strap. It might be hard to see from the picture i put up, but it was off at an angle compared to the strap sleeve. In order for it to have any traction, i actually had to twist it the other way, while applying a fair amount of pressure to the front of the ratchet. Simply applying pressure straight down was not enough.

But the shop assistant agreed with me, and he had a very hard time ratcheting it down as well, which is why it is off for warranty repairs at the moment. Its a pity that they werent one of the privileged shops to get spare parts, because now i am left hoping they can get the binding back before the weekend.




BurtonBindings said:


> This buckle which is featured on all Burton Bindings above $200.00 USD, has more parts, enough that we can only afford to put in on higher end models due to how many parts it has.


Oh how it sucks to be me here in Japan
Mission Snowboard Binding | Burton Snowboards
Mission Restricted Retails at 34,650 yen, or $390 USD at current exchange rates. I was extremely lucky to have found a pair at a much lower price than that - but still over $200 USD

Mind you the bindings are the least of my problems now as the 39,900yen ($450 USD) retail Ambush boots appear to have inner boot inconsistencies that make them unbearably tight on one side only - even after spending a few hours walking around town like LiL-wayne. I suppose this is also one of the lower end boots in the US though :-/


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## BurtonBindings (Dec 16, 2012)

Nope. You have a great set up. 
And your buckles are actually functioning fine although new tongues may be in order after the season. Ride them, you'll be fine.

Now or then, call rider service in Japan and ask for Kaz, the hardgoods specialist. Explain your situation and tell him that Chip in Bindings asked you to talk to him specifically. He and i will sort the details and Burton will send you parts after our conversation.

If that's too much off a hassle, walk into Murasaki in Shibuya and they should have parts for you.


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## tokyo_dom (Jan 7, 2013)

Thanks for that, i will call him tonight when i finish work.


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## Extremo (Nov 6, 2008)

tokyo_dom said:


> Thanks for the response (even if it was mainly for AssasinMonLV). As for the twisting of the hand, I spent some time looking at the angles of the teeth vs the ladder strap. It might be hard to see from the picture i put up, but it was off at an angle compared to the strap sleeve. In order for it to have any traction, i actually had to twist it the other way, while applying a fair amount of pressure to the front of the ratchet. Simply applying pressure straight down was not enough.
> 
> But the shop assistant agreed with me, and he had a very hard time ratcheting it down as well, which is why it is off for warranty repairs at the moment. Its a pity that they werent one of the privileged shops to get spare parts, because now i am left hoping they can get the binding back before the weekend.


Spare parts aren't going to solve this issue. This this is just a function of the Burton design. I currently own 2 sets of these straps and they both do the same thing. Same with my Flux, although less so than the Burton. I also owned a set of Technine Team bindings in which this problem was much worse. 

What happens is as you ratchet the toe strap the cap tightens and conforms to the toe of the boot. This creates a misalignment of the ratchet and ladder (or tongue as its referred to by BurtonBindings), and thus you have the skipping. So you can't really ever get them as tight as you can a Union, Ride, or Raiden toe strap because the more you tighten the burton cap the more out of alignment it becomes. Flux's design is better and as long as you keep the cap in alignment (which I find is relatively easy) you can tighten it all the way without any skipping. 

You don't find this problem with Union, Ride, or Raiden, regardless of which position the strap is in, probably because they don't use a true cap as burton does and thus doesn't have the same twisting effect that this type of cap creates.

Another problem is the burton ratchets are quicker to release, they have a longer lever and it pivots and lifts easier than a Union or Ride ratchet design, which adds to this problem. 

This is my personal experience with the ratchets. I understand others may have had better experiences and no problems at all.


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## BurtonBindings (Dec 16, 2012)

the misalignment is due to mis adjustment of the toe slider and / or the position of the tongue and slider of the baseplate as it relates to the boot shape and size.
it's also compounded by the user twisting the buckle during use, sending a pitch into the system which make the buckle teeth drive into the one side of the tongue.

it can be compensated for by using a stiffer TPU, but the tongues would break more often because people habitually step on them.

Trust me when i say this having the Smooth Glide buckle being around for a decade; if Jake or our team felt it was fundamentally flawed; I wouldn't be making bindings for them.


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## tokyo_dom (Jan 7, 2013)

Ok disregarding the part about me twisting the buckle (because i can guarantee that i am holding it straight, it is only by 'twisting it' that i can get it to engage), can you explain more about the mis-adjustment of the toe slider and/or the position of the tongue & slider of the baseplate?

I have not made any any adjustments to the mounting points of the straps; I have only extended the straps a single hole so that they seem 'centred' when looking down at the top of my boot.

Some previous posters suggested looking up youtube for instructions on setting up these other adjustments, but i did not see anything that related to the 2012/13 Mission Restricteds

I also couldnt find a single bit of info about this supposedly reversible ankle strap. How do i reverse it? Left side strap flipped and used on the right side? Just flipped to the other side of the same binding?


Also another point after re-reading some of the previous comments; is it possible to get the toe-strap from a Cartel/Malavita/high end boot and fit it to the Missions? Can you buy spare parts like that? I figure i would only want it on the strap that gets the most abuse - my left-side toe strap


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## tokyo_dom (Jan 7, 2013)

Ok update time. As i said I brought the left binding back to the shop for warranty, and i got them back just now. Burton replaced the toe-strap (both the cap and the ladder/tongue), and the shop also made some adjustments to show how they should be for my size boots (mounted the toe strap to the back mounting position so its leaning more forward than up)

Night and Day. The new toe strap doesnt skip at ALL anymore. To the point where its actually a bit catchy taking it off, but I dont mind that at all. Its to the point that the right side toe strap now feels a bit skippy (since that is only done up twice a day i am not so worried about taking time on that side)

Also turned out my gas pedal was out too far (under toe pad) so I now have them mounted on my board with proper setup, and they feel much better.


I want to thank everyone that contributed on this thread, especially BurtonBindings - not sure if you said something to the Japanese warranty team, but they gave me a much better one in return. Looking forward to trying them out tomorrow!


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## Extremo (Nov 6, 2008)

tokyo_dom said:


> Burton replaced the toe-strap (both the cap and the ladder/tongue), and the shop also made some adjustments to show how they should be for my size boots (mounted the toe strap to the back mounting position so its leaning more forward than up)


This was probably what was causing the misalignment to begin with. I'm surprised someone didn't mention it earlier.


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## tokyo_dom (Jan 7, 2013)

It might have been a small factor, but the new strap is definitely much tighter.

With the toe strap on the front position, the right side would skip much less than the left side. With the toe strap moved back, it hasnt changed on the right side (still skips unless i hold the front of the clip), but that is manageable. 

The warranty returned strap however, doesnt matter what i do, it just grips and grips. Havent had it slip once yet.


And after a day out on the snow, i can confirm that i am happy with the bindings again. Still not the easiest to put on, due to the curvature of the ankle strap etc (definitely have to sit down to do them), but they are comfy, and have just the right amount of flex for me. Also changed my stance to +15/-15 and no longer have sore knees.

For the boots, i took out the insole of the right side, and used some thin suit socks instead of sports socks, and no more pain there. As that side pads out I can put the insole back in, and then also eventually move to thicker socks.


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