# Returning Unions... what next?



## Chef Jer (Apr 3, 2011)

I recently bought Union SL's for my Cobra. I rode them for the second time today and can't get the toe cap to stay on my boot. I've tried adjusting the ladder length, placement on boot, they just won't stay put. Oh well. I'm looking for suggestions on bindings to pair with a NS Cobra. I'm currently considering:

Raiden Phantoms
Now IPO - (some reservations about durability). 


I already have Cartels on another board... so lets eliminate them from consideration.

Let me know your recommendations and why. Thanks in advance.

BA, Snowwolf, and Nivek - I'm especially interested in your thoughts!!

I don't want this to be a Union bashing thread!! I actually really like the SL's. Very comfortable and responsive... just don't work with my boot.


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## Extremo (Nov 6, 2008)

Did you try moving the toe strap into the slot furthest from the toe? It need to be at an angle to cap over the boot. 

Or you could just add this:

Burton Gettagrip Capstrap from Dogfunk.com

It's better than any cap you'll find.


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## Chef Jer (Apr 3, 2011)

Extremo said:


> Did you try moving the toe strap into the slot furthest from the toe? It need to be at an angle to cap over the boot.
> 
> Or you could just add this:
> 
> ...


Yes strap is at the slot furthest from the toe and is set up so that the cap is at angle over the boot. Won't stay put.

Not gonna spend another $40 to fix something that should work out of the box. Time to go a different direction.


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## ShredLife (Feb 6, 2010)

Snowolf will probably say Rome 390s or arsenals, Nivek will say NOW ipos, raiden phantoms, something by flux and maybe something by flow, i dunno what BAs on now - he was stoked on ipos i think as well as raidens. any one of them will have better toestraps than Union. 

i know you don't want burton suggestions but just curious what you didn't like about your diodes?


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## Chef Jer (Apr 3, 2011)

ShredLife said:


> i know you don't want burton suggestions but just curious what you didn't like about your diodes?


Really liked my Diodes on the Heritage but felt like they would be overkill on the Cobra.


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## ShredLife (Feb 6, 2010)

hmm interesting... i don't find them so much stiff as i find them responsive.... and really ignorable, just not durable enough for the price. 

to me i think that's the best characteristic of a binding - one i can just strap up and forget about. if i have to think about my bindings at all during a run :thumbsdown:


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## Chef Jer (Apr 3, 2011)

ShredLife said:


> hmm interesting... i don't find them so much stiff as i find them responsive.... and really ignorable, just not durable enough for the price.
> 
> to me i think that's the best characteristic of a binding - one i can just strap up and forget about. if i have to think about my bindings at all during a run :thumbsdown:


My only real complaint about the Diodes was how snow built up in the foot bed between my boot. After a long powder day I would literally have a layer of ice under my boots. 

I really like the performance of the Unions... but I find myself checking my feet a lot during a run to make sure the toe cap is in place.


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## dreampow (Sep 26, 2011)

I am also looking for some new bindings right now, to throw on a proto.

I do some pretty technical riding (steep tree runs) so they need to be responsive, but I am getting more into freestyle so some play is also required.

I have 2011 cartels and they are the easy to get (in Japan) solid choice, but I would like to mix it up a bit. The NOWs look sweet but are not really available in my size here. 

I will look at raiden, flow and K2. The cartels are still in the mix if I don't see anything I like better.

Any other suggestions welcome as well as specific suggestions within those brands.


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## Chef Jer (Apr 3, 2011)

dreampow said:


> I am also looking for some new bindings right now, to throw on a proto.
> 
> I do some pretty technical riding (steep tree runs) so they need to be responsive, but I am getting more into freestyle so some play is also required.
> 
> ...


Wow.. thread jack:laugh::laugh::laugh:

I'm actually eyeing Flux DMMC light and Raiden Phantoms. I like how the Unions were middle of the road for flex but still really responsive and would like to find something comparable.


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## dreampow (Sep 26, 2011)

Sorry fella,

Just seems like we would be looking at similar bindings so I threw myself in there.

Problem is in Japan there are real limits on whats available. The NOWs are the hot item and I just can't find them in large. 

Cartels and other burton bindings are everywhere. 

Just did a search and the raidens are off the list, again not available.

K2 company IPOs are available in my size any thoughts on these people?


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## Chef Jer (Apr 3, 2011)

dreampow said:


> Sorry fella,
> 
> Just seems like we would be looking at similar bindings so I threw myself in there.
> 
> ...


I was kidding no offense was taken:thumbsup: Hence the :laugh:

I'm intrigued by the NOW's but am a little reluctant to buy a first year product.


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## dreampow (Sep 26, 2011)

There is another recent thread on the NOWs, several forum members who have them love the way they ride, but it seems the ladders are soft and they got chewed.

On contacting NOW they said they will send new ladders and they are aware of the issue and everyone will get new ladders if required.

Sounds like good quality customer service, if I could I would jump on the NOWs as my first choice.


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## Chef Jer (Apr 3, 2011)

I'm gonna check out that thread tonight. I'm definitely intrigued by them.


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## Extremo (Nov 6, 2008)

Chef Jer said:


> Yes strap is at the slot furthest from the toe and is set up so that the cap is at angle over the boot. Won't stay put.
> 
> Not gonna spend another $40 to fix something that should work out of the box. Time to go a different direction.


So spending $260 on a new set is better than a $40 fix? 

Second choices would be Ride Capo, Rodeo, or the Raiden Phantom.


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## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

ShredLife said:


> Snowolf will probably say Rome 390s or arsenals, Nivek will say NOW ipos, raiden phantoms, something by flux and maybe something by flow, i dunno what BAs on now - he was stoked on ipos i think as well as raidens. any one of them will have better toestraps than Union.
> 
> i know you don't want burton suggestions but just curious what you didn't like about your diodes?


Wow, I don't even have to come here anymore...

Only thing I'd add is K2 Company's or Company IPO's. IPO's if you want more play up top. One of my new favorites.

Flux DMCC Lights for something a bit softer. And Flow NX2 SE's so you can use them easier in pow.


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## Chef Jer (Apr 3, 2011)

Nivek said:


> Wow, I don't even have to come here anymore...
> 
> Only thing I'd add is K2 Company's or Company IPO's. IPO's if you want more play up top. One of my new favorites.
> 
> Flux DMCC Lights for something a bit softer. And Flow NX2 SE's so you can use them easier in pow.


Thanks Nivek!!

I think I've narrowed it down to DMCC lights and Phantoms. I don't hit the park, I like hitting natural features and live for tight tree runs on powder days. Which of the two do you prefer for this type of riding?


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## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

Chef Jer said:


> Thanks Nivek!!
> 
> I think I've narrowed it down to DMCC lights and Phantoms. I don't hit the park, I like hitting natural features and live for tight tree runs on powder days. Which of the two do you prefer for this type of riding?


If you're not hiking that much Phantoms probably. DMCC Lights if you hike more cause they're way lighter.


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## Chef Jer (Apr 3, 2011)

Nivek said:


> If you're not hiking that much Phantoms probably. DMCC Lights if you hike more cause they're way lighter.


Thanks. Which of the two do you feel is more responsive?


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## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

Chef Jer said:


> Thanks. Which of the two do you feel is more responsive?


Probably Phantoms.


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## Chef Jer (Apr 3, 2011)

Nivek said:


> Probably Phantoms.


Thanks. Phantoms it is:thumbsup:


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## Leo (Nov 24, 2009)

dreampow said:


> I am also looking for some new bindings right now, to throw on a proto.
> 
> I do some pretty technical riding (steep tree runs) so they need to be responsive, but I am getting more into freestyle so some play is also required.
> 
> ...


I just rode my proto with the genesis bindings on them... Match made in heaven. My bosses will never go back on the proto now. Although I don't have the privilege of riding your terrain, I like to do tree runs (shitty mi ones lol) and some freestyle.

It's nice and playful when you need it, but responsive when you drive into the highback thanks to the hammock. Very comfortable and light bindings.

I do find myself missing canted footbeds though.


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## Weipim (Nov 20, 2012)

Leo said:


> I just rode my proto with the genesis bindings on them... Match made in heaven. My bosses will never go back on the proto now. Although I don't have the privilege of riding your terrain, I like to do tree runs (shitty mi ones lol) and some freestyle.
> 
> It's nice and playful when you need it, but responsive when you drive into the highback thanks to the hammock. Very comfortable and light bindings.
> 
> I do find myself missing canted footbeds though.


+1 on the gen 

we miss your revews mang when can we have an update?


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## hktrdr (Apr 3, 2012)

Leo said:


> I just rode my proto with the genesis bindings on them... Match made in heaven. My bosses will never go back on the proto now. Although I don't have the privilege of riding your terrain, I like to do tree runs (shitty mi ones lol) and some freestyle.
> 
> It's nice and playful when you need it, but responsive when you drive into the highback thanks to the hammock. Very comfortable and light bindings.
> 
> I do find myself missing canted footbeds though.


Interesting. Just demo'ed the Genesis on the Cobra for a couple of days and I am going back to the 390 Bosses - think they are both more responsive when I need and more playful when I want.


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## dreampow (Sep 26, 2011)

Leo said:


> I just rode my proto with the genesis bindings on them... Match made in heaven.
> It's nice and playful when you need it, but responsive when you drive into the highback thanks to the hammock. Very comfortable and light bindings.
> 
> I do find myself missing canted footbeds though.


Thanks for the suggestion. Have been looking at some genesis just today.
I can pick some up at a reasonable price in my size.

I have two reservations though, 

1) Most riders seems to say they are more on the freestyle side of all mountain. I definitely need enough response to handle some pretty steep technical terrain of the pistes. 

2) Thanks to your post, I now see they have no autocant. Why not?

I have looked at several different companies (within whats available here in Japan) and I just keep coming back to the cartels. The little extra stiffness (compared to the genesis) and I know they will do everything I need of them. 

I can get my hands on the restricted and the limited late release (lighter and with react strap upgrade).

I am now leaning heavily towards those limited cartels.

Any thoughts? Have you ridden them?

Happy new years eve everyone.


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## Leo (Nov 24, 2009)

dreampow said:


> Thanks for the suggestion. Have been looking at some genesis just today.
> I can pick some up at a reasonable price in my size.
> 
> I have two reservations though,
> ...


Cartels are a solid choice too. I love those bindings. Just keep in mind they become a bit more forgiving putting them back into the freestyle orientated side of the all-mountain game.

However, as you said, they are stiffer than the genesis. Genesis definitely have more lateral flex. The hammock on the highback in my opinion make them more responsive on the heel edge though. As soon you lean heel side, you get the response.

I am also very confused as to why they didn't give it autocant. I thought maybe they just didn't list it as a feature, but it's definitely missing. I was thinking about contacting burton to see if they can hook me up with autocant footbeds.

Are you able to physically handle a pair? Maybe the shop will let you mount it on a board so you can get an idea about the flex?

I think the Targas would be too stiff for him Wolfie. He said he wants to do more freestyle. I found Targas to be very unforgiving even without any inserts in he ankle strap. But they definitely would make sick technical bindings. 

Guess it also depends on what type of freestyle you want to do. You're probably not gonna like buttering or jibbing with those bindings.


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## Leo (Nov 24, 2009)

hktrdr said:


> Interesting. Just demo'ed the Genesis on the Cobra for a couple of days and I am going back to the 390 Bosses - think they are both more responsive when I need and more playful when I want.


Interesting. The 390's are quite a bit more flexy. 

Genesis gave me more edge response especially heel side.

I'll have some more reviews coming up. I had a lot happen to me in my personal life. Busy busy busy.


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## Chef Jer (Apr 3, 2011)

Snowolf said:


> I am actually currently riding the Cobra with a pair of Union Contact Pro`s and am finding them a great match. I do prefer a slightly softer binding though. I ride the Cobra on everything from groomers, to steeps, tight trees and large moguls on black terrain and find the Pro`s work extremely well.
> 
> Now, as for the Rome bindings which are still my favorite bindings overall , The 390/390 Boss actually is a good match. I personally feel that the Arsenals were overkill in the stiffness and made the board a bit too responsive and therefore touchy. For Leo who is more park oriented, definitely the 390/390 boss. For Dreampow in the deep Japan pow, I would lean toward the stiffer Targa with canting. The Arsenals have turned out to be a great match for the Summit and I am going to use them on the Raptor as well.


After much waffling, I ended up ordering Flux DMCC lights. I am a little nervous that they'll be a little too soft but from what I've been reading they are stiffer than the Contact Pro's/390's and you and Leo have liked both on the Cobra. So will see:dunno:


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## Deimus85 (Dec 3, 2012)

A lot of people with that version of Union's Toe Cap have issues with certain boots. What kind of boots do you wear? 

I have a pair of Union Data's and a pair of Union Atlas's and have never had a problem. Rome 390's are awesome binders as well.

Maybe look into getting one of those style of toe caps.


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## Chef Jer (Apr 3, 2011)

Deimus85 said:


> A lot of people with that version of Union's Toe Cap have issues with certain boots. What kind of boots do you wear?
> 
> I have a pair of Union Data's and a pair of Union Atlas's and have never had a problem. Rome 390's are awesome binders as well.
> 
> Maybe look into getting one of those style of toe caps.


I wear Salomon Syanpses which have a smooth round toe.... Union toe cap just doesn't work with it. Too bad cause outside the toe cap I like the Unions.


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## Deimus85 (Dec 3, 2012)

Chef Jer said:


> I wear Salomon Syanpses which have a smooth round toe.... Union toe cap just doesn't work with it. Too bad cause outside the toe cap I like the Unions.


Yea, some boots just won't work with those open toe cap designs. For those boots you would want to look into bindings that have some kind of stretchy toe cap, like the Rome and Ride binders.

Or you can Frankenbinder it:

Frankenbindings: Toe straps/caps! | Jibby Snowboarding


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## Extremo (Nov 6, 2008)

Deimus85 said:


> Yea, some boots just won't work with those open toe cap designs. For those boots you would want to look into bindings that have some kind of stretchy toe cap, like the Rome and Ride binders.
> 
> Or you can Frankenbinder it:
> 
> Frankenbindings: Toe straps/caps! | Jibby Snowboarding


This is my vote. Why scrap a sick binding over a defective strap. Upgrade and enjoy.


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## Deimus85 (Dec 3, 2012)

Extremo said:


> This is my vote. Why scrap a sick binding over a defective strap. Upgrade and enjoy.


It's not that it is defective, it just doesn't work optimally with every boot. My 11/12 Atlas work great with my Rome Libertines, and it has the same Toe Cap as the SL. So yea, instead of getting rid of the whole binding or getting a new boot (we all know how hard it is sometimes to get the right boot), just switch up the toe cap. The other option is find one of the older Union toe caps, like off the Data or Force.

Like this one:


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## Chef Jer (Apr 3, 2011)

Deimus85 said:


> Yea, some boots just won't work with those open toe cap designs. For those boots you would want to look into bindings that have some kind of stretchy toe cap, like the Rome and Ride binders.
> 
> Or you can Frankenbinder it:
> 
> Frankenbindings: Toe straps/caps! | Jibby Snowboarding





Extremo said:


> This is my vote. Why scrap a sick binding over a defective strap. Upgrade and enjoy.


Appreciate the recommendations but..... my Cartels are going on the board tonight for tomorrow and Flux's are ordered.


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## Chef Jer (Apr 3, 2011)

Deimus85 said:


> Yea, some boots just won't work with those open toe cap designs. For those boots you would want to look into bindings that have some kind of stretchy toe cap, like the Rome and Ride binders.
> 
> Or you can Frankenbinder it:
> 
> Frankenbindings: Toe straps/caps! | Jibby Snowboarding





Extremo said:


> This is my vote. Why scrap a sick binding over a defective strap. Upgrade and enjoy.


As posted earlier (in a different thread).. I've gone this route. Union's customer service is top notch and they did offer to send me the older force caps. However, I've had some gift cards laying around for a bit and I really like the burton caps.. so I went that direction.

The Frankenbinder process was much simpler than the link posted. The Burton getta grip cap and ratchets actually work with the Union ladders. No mods were necessary and it was as simple as screwing the Burton caps into the Union laders. I still need to adjust them for my boot but this is the result:



















(*flux's I ordered were over sold and really missed SL's after riding my Cartels again)


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## Deimus85 (Dec 3, 2012)

Chef Jer said:


> As posted earlier (in a different thread).. I've gone this route. Union's customer service is top notch and they did offer to send me the older force caps. However, I've had some gift cards laying around for a bit and I really like the burton caps.. so I went that direction.
> 
> The Frankenbinder process was much simpler than the link posted. The Burton getta grip cap and ratchets actually work with the Union ladders. No mods were necessary and it was as simple as screwing the Burton caps into the Union laders. I still need to adjust them for my boot but this is the result:
> 
> ...


Yea, the Burton Toe Caps look really comfy and nice. Good work! :thumbsup:


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## NoOtherOptions (Nov 28, 2011)

Chef Jer said:


> Wow.. thread jack:laugh::laugh::laugh:
> 
> I'm actually eyeing Flux DMMC light and Raiden Phantoms. I like how the Unions were middle of the road for flex but still really responsive and would like to find something comparable.


Angrysnowboarder gave the DMCC lights a very favorable review on his site. I heard good things about em. Havn't riden them, but I did ride a pair of Flux's last season that were pretty dope.


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## Mel M (Feb 2, 2012)

Chef Jer said:


> The Frankenbinder process was much simpler than the link posted. The Burton getta grip cap and ratchets actually work with the Union ladders. No mods were necessary and it was as simple as screwing the Burton caps into the Union laders. I still need to adjust them for my boot but this is the result:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Did the exact same thing just a few minutes ago thanks to your post! I actually have the same boots (Salomon Synapse) as the OP and it fits like a glove.

I have the Atlas bindings and no matter what I did, I could not get the toe strap to stay. Everything else about this binding is awesome and I would've hated to get something else just for the toe strap. Now I have arguably one of the best toe straps on the market on these awesome bindings and everything's perfect. Thanks again Chef Jar!


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## Jules Winnfield (Jan 16, 2013)

Just picked up a pair of used Burton Prophecy. Light, ankle and toe cap super cush. Board feel is spot on. By far best toe caps I have ridden. It's the binding you don't think about all day because it does everything you need it to....
Like my Nike Kaiju's.


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