# Union SL vs force??



## phony_stark (Jul 2, 2011)

Force is stiffer, heavier, stage 2 baseplate, stiffer highback.
SLs, lighter, stage 3, carbon injected baseplate, softer highback.

paging shralp.


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## I<3snowp0rn (Nov 8, 2012)

SL has a flatter highback, similar to the contact pro. Also has an assym ankle strap. Is there something you wanted to know specifically?


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## phony_stark (Jul 2, 2011)

I<3snowp0rn said:


> SL has a flatter highback, similar to the contact pro. Also has an assym ankle strap. Is there something you wanted to know specifically?


It's an Asymmetrical-Symmetrical highback easy to roll in hard to roll out.
Forgot about the asym straps.

youtube search has a good overview of both. Internet, all-around, nice guy spenser says the force is the most responsive binding in the lineup, that's under $250 

Due to the baseplate the SL is probably between the atlas and the force as far as response goes.


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## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

SL's. Forces have zero heel dampening.


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## I<3snowp0rn (Nov 8, 2012)

phony_stark said:


> It's an Asymmetrical-Symmetrical highback easy to roll in hard to roll out.
> Forgot about the asym straps.
> 
> youtube search has a good overview of both. Internet, all-around, nice guy spenser says the force is the most responsive binding in the lineup, that's under $250
> ...


what does Asymmetrical-Symmetrical mean? Isn't that contradicting?


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## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

The overall shape of the highback is symmetrical. The flex is not.


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## I<3snowp0rn (Nov 8, 2012)

Nivek said:


> SL's. Forces have zero heel dampening.


I thought forces have EVA padding in the heel?


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## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

They do. You can see it in the photo. But it sits below the plastic rails which go all the way to the board. You stand on the rails, not the foam.

I owned Data's that had the Force baseplate. Rode em a whole year. Dampening what complete shit.


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## phony_stark (Jul 2, 2011)

Maybe I don't hit epic jumps or something, but I feel most of my dampening comes from my boots and flexing my ankles/knees when stomping. 

Nivek, I'm noticing a lot of typos, are you using a telephone, you out on the town playboy you?


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## I<3snowp0rn (Nov 8, 2012)

Nivek said:


> They do. You can see it in the photo. But it sits below the plastic rails which go all the way to the board. You stand on the rails, not the foam.
> 
> I owned Data's that had the Force baseplate. Rode em a whole year. Dampening what complete shit.


Isn't the EVA foam more of a dampening system between your board and binding and also remove dead zone area? I would think your boots outsole would provide the cushioning between the boot and binding?


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## phony_stark (Jul 2, 2011)

You would be right pr0n king.


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## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

phony_stark said:


> Maybe I don't hit epic jumps or something, but I feel most of my dampening comes from my boots and flexing my ankles/knees when stomping.
> 
> Nivek, I'm noticing a lot of typos, are you using a telephone, you out on the town playboy you?


I had a long fucking day actually. Shred in the morning and then a 10 hour day.

Sure you get some dampening from your boots, but isn't from boots and bindings better? With the way the Union is set up in the heel it's no better than running baseless. Running plastic all the way to the board just channels all the chatter and shock up to your foot.


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## phony_stark (Jul 2, 2011)

Maybe I keep snowboarding simpler than you or am in better shape or something, but I have found the impact absorption difference between burton's autocant/union's stage 3/ and Union's stage 2 to be negligible.


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## I<3snowp0rn (Nov 8, 2012)

phony_stark said:


> You would be right pr0n king.


Ok, just clearing up some misunderstanding of what the EVA was for. I know some Burton and Flux bindings have a gel bubble on the heel, but I haven't noticed the gel feature provides any significant dampening when riding.


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## phony_stark (Jul 2, 2011)

samsies, it's like air bubbles and shock absorbtion on your skate shoes. Landing correctly and with coordination > whatever foam the put in your shoes.


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## LTshredTN (Apr 14, 2009)

thanks guys...i would be going from 390 boses to these so id want something about the same flex id say..medium flex, nothing stiff forsure!! if that helps...also 2 yrs ago i had ordered forces but once i got them and messed with them a bit, the ratches were hell to get loose quick! would suck on park days in and out alot..so thats how i ended up with 390, ratchets quick in and out! i love the 390s so it makes me nervous giving union another try


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## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

The ratchets haven't changed.

Apparently I ride harder or hit bigger stuff. Cause my knees kill me after a day in sub par dampened bindings. And I ride $400 boots.


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## 24WERD (May 9, 2012)

Depending on what yr the SL are the information is correct.

Carbon injected base for SL Previous yr only not 2013 current line.

SL has Base III which has more dampening then BASE II and no plastic at the heel. For current and last year 2012 only. previous yr was Base II.

As Spencer said the base on the FORCE absorbs alot of the shock through the material having it give more which is better for jumps and stuff.

The Union buckles are hard to take off at first but after a couple of runs they loosen up and work real well. The toe buckle needs work though and jams/malfunctions alot. Simply buy some burton getta grip. For$200 retail they are probably the best response all round bindings at that price point.


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## I<3snowp0rn (Nov 8, 2012)

Nivek said:


> The ratchets haven't changed.
> 
> Apparently I ride harder or hit bigger stuff. Cause my knees kill me after a day in sub par dampened bindings. And I ride $400 boots.


What does riding $400 boots have to do with the topic?

Or are you saying your $400 boots doesn't provide what you expect? Just curious when you ride other manufacturer's bindings, does your knees still hurt?


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## Alkasquawlik (Jul 13, 2010)

Nivek said:


> The ratchets haven't changed.
> 
> Apparently I ride harder or hit bigger stuff. Cause my knees kill me after a day in sub par dampened bindings. And I ride $400 boots.


Either that, or you've been spending too much time on your knees throughout your life. I'd guess the latter. 

Btw, I love all your "claimz". $400 boots? Cool dude. No one cares lol.


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## phony_stark (Jul 2, 2011)

Bro, I heard on $800 boots you can jump off of a building, land feet first, and walk away.

You haven't heard?


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## Peyto (Mar 21, 2012)

Alkasquawlik said:


> Either that, or you've been spending too much time on your knees throughout your life. I'd guess the latter.
> 
> Btw, I love all your "claimz". $400 boots? Cool dude. No one cares lol.


If we're comparing binding dampening then the quality of the boot is absolutely relevant. Assuming a $400 dollar boot is going to have quality dampening, then you can hold all variables but the binding constant and make a comparative judgement.

But I suppose that gets in the way of a good ribbing.


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## Alkasquawlik (Jul 13, 2010)

saloman said:


> If we're comparing binding dampening then the quality of the boot is absolutely relevant. Assuming a $400 dollar boot is going to have quality dampening, then you can hold all variables but the binding constant and make a comparative judgement.
> 
> But I suppose that gets in the way of a good ribbing.


It does.

With that said, I have Nike Kaijus ($350 retail for whoever gives a fuck), and I've never, ever had knee problems after riding, and I've been on Unions for the past 5 years or so.

Maybe Nivek is just a little girl?


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## phony_stark (Jul 2, 2011)

Alka, if you spent just $50 more, your boots could have healed wounds.


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## Alkasquawlik (Jul 13, 2010)

phony_stark said:


> Alka, if you spent just $50 more, your boots could have healed wounds.


Those $50 were spent buying new Analog outerwear, _since they are useless after one season._


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## BFBF (Jan 15, 2012)

phony_stark said:


> Bro, I heard on $800 boots you can jump off of a building, land feet first, and walk away.
> 
> You haven't heard?


I only will wear 1000$ boots which allow me to "hover" over the snow like a god walking on water thus trivial things that mortals worry about such as dampening don't exist in my world.

Pheasants.


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## phony_stark (Jul 2, 2011)

ShreddyTN why didn't you post this on Easyloungin? Just curious....also, should you go with the Union Force you will need boots that are at LEAST $401 dollars to counteract the Union force's dampening system. Or your knees will fall off. 

BFBF suggests $1000 boots for extra float in pow and smooth riding under tough conditions.


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## Cr0_Reps_Smit (Jun 27, 2009)

you know, for people here to drop "knowledge" you sure sound a like a bunch of hypocrites.


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## Extremo (Nov 6, 2008)

So this place has turned into a serious joke. Thanks Nivek. 

To the OP...if you still give a shit. I ride the Force on my rail board and the SL on my all mtn board. 
The SL baseplate is stiffer and more responsive than the force. 
The SL Highback has more torsional flex then the force but the same lateral stiffness. Dampening is the same...which is decent, but obviously not like riding on pillows. 
The SL has a slightly softer asym ankle straps, the force have a stiffer uniform strap.


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## Extremo (Nov 6, 2008)

Nivek said:


> The ratchets haven't changed.
> 
> Apparently I ride harder or hit bigger stuff. Cause my knees kill me after a day in sub par dampened bindings. And I ride $400 boots.


Don't listen to shit-for-brains here. Ratchets have been upgraded.


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## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

BFBF said:


> Pheasants.


We're birds now? $400 wasnt a claim. My point behind that was to avoid the "well maybe your boots just have shitty dampening" comment. Admittedly an inefficient way to get that across. i have nothing to prove to any of you. I do what I do cause I know what I'm talking about and people value what I have to say.

Please, explain to me how having solid plastic from heel to board provides any dampening. Cause it doesnt. This dampening issue is not something I've recently decided exists. I noticed it when I OWNED Datas. The bushings do not dampen for shock, the deaden chatter a bit and promote better board flex.

And do you all realize you are bitching and whining to me for simply calling a toe strap, ratchet, and one of their frames dampening crap. I havent said the entire binding sucks once. And again, I have owned 3 different pairs and ridden 2 more on more than one occasion. I have more than 200 days in Unions.

By the way the toe ratchet on my 09 Contacts is the same as on the 2013 Force. But the Force is milled out. Which does nothing to change the functionality. It works the exact same way and still performs sub par compared to the rest of the industry.


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## Alkasquawlik (Jul 13, 2010)

Nivek said:


> By the way the toe ratchet on my 09 Contacts is the same as on the 2013 Force. But the Force is milled out. Which does nothing to change the functionality. *It works the exact same way and still performs sub par compared to the rest of the industry.*


What do you not understand?? It works "subpar" for YOU. Obviously it doesn't work subpar for a vast majority of riders, or they would choose to ride something else.

And although you may not have called out Union or said they suck, your butt buddy went above and beyond the call of duty, and I consider you two basically the same person.

BTW, fwiw, I set up a customer's Contact Pros on his Skunk Ape today. Rotated the highbacks, dialed in his 32 boots, the whole shebang. It took me less than 30 minutes. I dunno what you were doing fiddling around with a pair of bindings for 2 hours. If you couldn't figure them out in 120 minutes, clearly they weren't the bindings for you.

Gotta step yo game up son.


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