# Heel lift - boots, or me?



## neni

threnjen said:


> I lace the boots as tight as I can - some days I get some tenderness on the front of my calf from creating pressure points from pulling them as tight as I can. I also ratchet my bindings down as tight as I can.


This is no good. This cuts off blood circulation and makes feet/toes go numb. You should have no to minimal (talking milimeters) heel lift in a not over-tightened boot.

The thing is that even though the size of the boot may be the right, it still may be the wrong boot for your foot. "Fit" is not only about the size... different models fit different foot forms. Wide vs narrow ancles, high vs low arch a.s.o. 

Go to a boot fitter and let him try to give you better heel support (J bars did help me a lot). Second thing which you should get are good insoles which fit your footbed. A proper fitting footbed will keep the foot in place so your toes won't be smash into the toebox once you have to stay on heelside.

If this doesn't help, sell them and buy boots which give you good heelhold. Try them on in the shop and strap into a board n do a carpet test. In a new boot in the shop you should habe no heel lift. The Ride Cadence for example has very nice heelhold for slim ancles.

BTW: getting proper fitting boots can be a frustrating Odyssey... keep at it! It's worth it. I went from almost unbearable foot pain from nerve buzzes and totally numb feet from overtightening to painfree comfortably riding n hiking long days with step by step improving the boot and soles fit.


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## f00bar

The Mints are pretty low in the Burton line. Not saying they are bad boots, its my daughter's first pair of boots, but to expect them to behave like a boot that is 3 times the cost isn't realistic either.

I'm not saying this is the problem, but sometimes you do have to make sure your expectations meet the equipment capabilities as well.


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## DaftDeft

You don't mention if you've heat fit your liners yet. I'm not sure if the mint even has moldable liners but if they do that's something to try. 

I used to have many of the same issues as you described: heel lift leading to over tightening my boots resulting in numb toes. I got a heat fit and a couple of j bars put in at my local boot fitter and now they're pretty comfy and have very minimal lift.


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## wrathfuldeity

Have you tried new insoles

perhaps some tongue padding to push back the heel in the pocket

j, c, butterflies

see http://www.snowboardingforum.com/boots/51066-boots-faq-etc.html


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## threnjen

Thank you for all of the helpful replies!

I know that the Mint is their entry level boot, so I'm definitely not expecting the world from it. I was hoping to get a full season of riding out of them though as I work toward intermediate skills. They only have the Imprint 1 liner and I'm not sure if it can be heat molded. I will have to look that up.

In any case - it sounds like my heel lift is not usual, nor should I have to tighten my boots to the point of pain for a proper fit (or still improper, as the case may be). I think knowing thism it's clear that these boots aren't right for me. I'll have to hoof it down to EVO and see what I can try on. Hopefully I can convince the hubs that the boots are part of my problem. Not sure he is going to be thrilled that I want to replace them already =/ I'll look into a simpler short-term solution as well such as the J-bars, although I think come clearance time I'll be shopping for new boots for sure.


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## Rogue

threnjen said:


> Thank you for all of the helpful replies!
> 
> I know that the Mint is their entry level boot, so I'm definitely not expecting the world from it. I was hoping to get a full season of riding out of them though as I work toward intermediate skills. They only have the Imprint 1 liner and I'm not sure if it can be heat molded. I will have to look that up.
> 
> In any case - it sounds like my heel lift is not usual, nor should I have to tighten my boots to the point of pain for a proper fit (or still improper, as the case may be). I think knowing thism it's clear that these boots aren't right for me. I'll have to hoof it down to EVO and see what I can try on. Hopefully I can convince the hubs that the boots are part of my problem. Not sure he is going to be thrilled that I want to replace them already =/ I'll look into a simpler short-term solution as well such as the J-bars, although I think come clearance time I'll be shopping for new boots for sure.



Welcome to Burton boots, ime anyway. I have 50+ days (over 1000 miles just last season) on my Burton Felix and they are done. I can do all the after market shit I want but sometimes you have to just get new. I'm cranking them down, losing circulation and it's messing with my riding. I've had the mints when I was still learning and wearing the wrong size. I think I had 2 seasons out of them with far less miles total. 


My third pair of Felix are on their way now. 


Burton just has poor heel hold in their boots. Obviously I ride them anyway because it's what fits best still, but out of many other companies, they just do not do well in that area. The Felix are Imprint 3 liners which will be better and are heat moldable. Just try on other boots too. A lot of companies are cheaper than Burton. Burton Emerald might be a good option for you, something in the middle. 


Adding some Remind Medics will also help out too, which I recommend now and with any next boot you buy. It made a huge difference in my response and keeping my boot fitting more snug.


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## Oldman

neni said:


> This is no good. This cuts off blood circulation and makes feet/toes go numb. You should have no to minimal (talking milimeters) heel lift in a not over-tightened boot.
> 
> The thing is that even though the size of the boot may be the right, it still may be the wrong boot for your foot. "Fit" is not only about the size... different models fit different foot forms. Wide vs narrow ancles, high vs low arch a.s.o.
> 
> Go to a boot fitter and let him try to give you better heel support (J bars did help me a lot). Second thing which you should get are good insoles which fit your footbed. A proper fitting footbed will keep the foot in place so your toes won't be smash into the toebox once you have to stay on heelside.
> 
> If this doesn't help, sell them and buy boots which give you good heelhold. Try them on in the shop and strap into a board n do a carpet test. In a new boot in the shop you should habe no heel lift. The Ride Cadence for example has very nice heelhold for slim ancles.
> 
> BTW: getting proper fitting boots can be a frustrating Odyssey... keep at it! It's worth it. I went from almost unbearable foot pain from nerve buzzes and totally numb feet from overtightening to painfree comfortably riding n hiking long days with step by step improving the boot and soles fit.


This is SO bang on. The most important thing to remember when it comes to boots is that it does not matter a damn who made the boot, no matter the price, cheap or expensive, the best boot for you is the boot that fits you the best. You may have to try on a dozen or more boots, but keep trying until you get the one that is best for you. You will be shocked how differently boots fit and feel.


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## gn3man

Here is a bit of my experience: I got burton ambush boots with speed laces, and the situation was exactly the same. There was awful hill lift in really over-tightened boot. When I was wearing them in the store - they fit fine and comfortable, but it changed on the slopes. I tried 2 different insoles but it didn't help. Gave up and sold them to take new dc judge with boa system - totally new level of comfort and control of board when you heel is locked and the foot feels snug and comfy. Thirtytwo or ride boots (depending on individual preferences with boa or laces) are also a good choise. It's all about feet anatomy and boot construction - they are all different and you should find the pair which fits best, spend more time in the shop wearing them (I mean actually MORE time, 20-30 min walking, squatting etc.). Good luck!


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## Fluid Motion

Yes you definitely shouldn't have to tighten your boots so much that it is causing your circulation to be cut off. You may want to switch out your stock liner for a higher quality heat moldable liner like Intuition as that will help with pressure points, fit and heel hold.


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## htfu

same basic experience here when i bought my first pair of boots. was in resort in tignes, france and the shop was cool enough to allow me to try the boots on the slopes before i bought them. i tried on a bunch of burton boots, with similar results : seemed to fit ok in the shop, but on the piste heel lift so bad i could barely turn heel to toe, even after tightening everything down to "foot in a vice" levels. after the 3rd or 4th pair resulted in the same outcome the person helping me pulled out another pair and said "try these, they will work".

absolutely night and day difference, went up and tested them on piste and they were perfect. came down and bought them instantly, didn't care what brand/model/colour they were (turned out to be nitro selects). so it seems like the basic concept of "the right boot is the one that fits you properly" is the single most important thing to keep in mind when buying boots. i've impressed this upon everyone who has asked me for advice when buying boots, not one of them has had bad boot fit (good store and staff helps a lot here too).


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## threnjen

Hey guys thanks for all of your tips!! I want to try to get these boots to work through the end of season if at all possible. I put in two j-bars in my back boot which is the only one I really get heel lift with. I did try to put one in my front foot but apparently that foot and/or ankle is bigger because even one j-bar was painfully tight (I think my back foot boot has packed out more??). I also swapped out the factory insoles with different insoles with a slightly higher heel.

Anyway, today was my first day checking out these improvements. Still got some heel lift, sadly, BUT my improvements made a VERY noticeable difference and it showed in my performance. It's the first day where I've ever felt real responsiveness turning heelside to toeside. When I initiated my turns everything actually responded right off! I couldn't believe it! At last I was getting those confident turns that my hubby is always nagging me about and I'm pretty convinced it's largely because my boot was responding to my movements much better.

But, by the end of the day my back ankle was aching from the j-bars, and I did still have some heel lift  So it's not a permanent solution. In good news the hubby agrees I've done my due diligence trying to get these boots to work, and we are well into intermediate territory now as far as skill, so I'll be looking to upgrade soon. This time I'll be going directly to the shop (got some great ones right nearby, hello Evo!) and trying on a bunch of boots.

Thanks again for all of your help!


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## threnjen

Went downtown to EVO and am now the owner of a pair of Thirtytwo Lashed Boa boots. Boot fitting was tough for me. I'm "blessed" with short, stocky German ancestry and my legs/ankles are thick, no matter my weight, which makes boot fitting a challenge. And being short, my calves are low, so boots overall are a pain for fit. I tried on the Salomon Ivy Boa which I thought, before going, would be the winner. But this boot creates an awful pressure point on the front of my shin. No go. The Lashed seems like the right boot, at least I sure hope so. 

Also turns out my right foot, which is the heel lift problem foot, is an entire half size smaller. If only money flowed like water and I could purchase two pairs of boots and have the correct size for each foot! So I will likely still be putting some ankle bars in the right boot, just to offset the size problem. And in response, my left boot is a little snug, because I went a half size small in size overall to better match my right foot where I have the most problems. So here is praying that my left toes don't go completely numb on my bigger foot.

Wearing them around the house today to break in a bit to go to the mountain tomorrow!


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## wrathfuldeity

threnjen said:


> Went downtown to EVO
> 
> Also turns out my right foot, which is the heel lift problem foot, is an entire half size smaller. If only money flowed like water and I could purchase two pairs of boots and have the correct size for each foot! So I will likely still be putting some ankle bars in the right boot, just to offset the size problem. And in response, my left boot is a little snug, because I went a half size small in size overall to better match my right foot where I have the most problems. So here is praying that my left toes don't go completely numb on my bigger foot.
> 
> Wearing them around the house today to break in a bit to go to the mountain tomorrow!


Evo rocks...they have some good folks there

On your smaller right foot...I'd recommend first, trying a wrap around butterfly...to create a better heel pocket...and add some foam to the front of the liner tongue to push your foot back in to the heel pocket. Then see where you are at, in the need for c/j bars. Imo, you first want to get the heel pocket sorted...then that will determine where to place the c/j bars.


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## chomps1211

threnjen said:


> Went downtown to EVO and am now the owner of a pair of Thirtytwo Lashed Boa boots. Boot fitting was tough for me. I'm "blessed" with short, stocky German ancestry and my legs/ankles are thick, no matter my weight, which makes boot fitting a challenge. And being short, my calves are low, so boots overall are a pain for fit. I tried on the Salomon Ivy Boa which I thought, before going, would be the winner. But this boot creates an awful pressure point on the front of my shin. No go. The Lashed seems like the right boot, at least I sure hope so.
> 
> Also turns out my right foot, which is the heel lift problem foot, is an entire half size smaller. If only money flowed like water and I could purchase two pairs of boots and have the correct size for each foot! So I will likely still be putting some ankle bars in the right boot, just to offset the size problem. And in response, my left boot is a little snug, because I went a half size small in size overall to better match my right foot where I have the most problems. So here is praying that my left toes don't go completely numb on my bigger foot.
> 
> Wearing them around the house today to break in a bit to go to the mountain tomorrow!


Don't overlook getting them heat fitted. Most good shops will do it for free or at least for a minimal fee. That could help you some with the tighter fit for that longer hoof!  :laugh:

Here is a website that has a ton of various boot fitting accessories & pads. (…among many other good SB maint items.) Some of them are listed as "ski boot" specific but will work just as well for SB boots.

TOGNAR.COM

As you have no doubt figured out,… _Many_ of us here have struggled with getting proper fitting boots. Myself included! Good luck and keep at it. Even small, incremental improvements in fit as you continue along on this journey and go thru boots will pay off in improved comfort and fit! 

Hopefully somewhere along the way you arrive at the _"perfect fit"_ that Neni described!! :grin: (I have not quite arrived at that point myself, but I have improved my fit & riding comfort immensely despite having some *F'd up* foot issues! So,… don't lose heart!!!) :laugh:


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