# Camber vs. Rocker?



## The Chairman (Aug 17, 2009)

Why settle for one or the other when you can have the best of both worlds. Do yourself a favor and check out neversummer.com


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## FLuiD (Jul 6, 2009)

Vman said:


> Why settle for one or the other when you can have the best of both worlds. Do yourself a favor and check out neversummer.com


The man speaks! He's right. Check out the Never Summer Rocker/Camber Vario grip line.. Evo-R, Circuit-R, SL-R etc they are all badass!! All those that haven't rode one really need to check one out! I remember my first day on the Evo-R last year like it was my first stink finger!


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## j.gnar (Sep 4, 2009)

get a lib tech, i got myself a skate banana last season and i've never looked back


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## BurtonAvenger (Aug 14, 2007)

Here's 2 mandatory reads to understand what it's all about.
Camber Theories Explained ~ The Angry Snowboarder
Camber Theories In Use ~ The Angry Snowboarder

After reading those check out the reviews and stuff you'll get a better idea.


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## Guest (Sep 9, 2009)

wooo ok . i should have said that i have done my home work and that i just wanted to know what you guys thought of the ride. one versus the other. you know some old school versus new school comparison. If i get a revers camber it will be the k2's zero. I will ride i never summer if someone buys it for me.


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## spirited driver (Aug 19, 2009)

Snow_omen said:


> wooo ok . i should have said that i have done my home work and that i just wanted to know what you guys thought of the ride. one versus the other. you know some old school versus new school comparison. *If i get a revers camber it will be the k2's zero.* I will ride i never summer if someone buys it for me.


Have you ridden it?


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## legallyillegal (Oct 6, 2008)

Snow_omen said:


> wooo ok . i should have said that i have done my home work and that i just wanted to know what you guys thought of the ride. one versus the other. you know some old school versus new school comparison. If i get a revers camber it will be the k2's zero. I will ride i never summer if someone buys it for me.


the zero is regular camber


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## Guest (Sep 9, 2009)

spirited driver said:


> Have you ridden it?


no i have not and demo days are later in the season. The last three boards i have owned all came from k2 and the flat no camber seems to be a good transition for me since i have been on a regular camber forever. It is hard to decide. I got the believer two seasons ago and only really rode it hard last season, so it is still fresh. Now all these little shin bitters are going to be spinning circles around me on their skate banana's. O well looks like i'm selling the flat screen.


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## Guest (Sep 9, 2009)

ahhh i see i went to the site .... i was basing my info off of what a buddy said last year. So now i'm back to square one. I still believe if i'm not wrong that i should go with a no camber first to transition.


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## Cr0_Reps_Smit (Jun 27, 2009)

i dont really think you HAVE to go zero camber before going to rocker unless thats something you want to ride more then rocker. i went straight to the evo-r from never summer after riding nothing but camber before that and i didnt even need more time then getting off the lift to get used to it. so if your just going with zero camber because you feel like you have to before trying rocker id say just go for rocker.


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## BurtonAvenger (Aug 14, 2007)

I've ridden everything there is in terms of anti-camber. Camber is just a dead technology to me. Every company has a tweak or something that makes them ride different. I will say for a transition from camber to anti go with a 0 cambered deck it'll make the most sense or go with something like what Never Summer's doing. Rocker is not for everyone.


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## Guest (Sep 10, 2009)

i was just about to come on here to write the same question because im trying to choose between a slash and a parkstar and it pretty much comes down to if i want the camber or the rocker


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## BurtonAvenger (Aug 14, 2007)

It's pretty easy to take rocker and create either a jib specific or a pow specific deck. The all mountain mix is the toughest one to concur. Basically it comes down to looking at what's inside the board, if it's rockered the amount that it has, if it's reverse camber what's going to prevent it from slipping, and if it's a mix of reverse and camber where the placement is, along with what they're claiming the board is geared towards. 

I'll be honest my 2 favorite techs for all all mountain riding are the Never Summer R.C. Technology and K2's zero camber.


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## Glade Ripper (Nov 12, 2008)

So BA, would you buy recommend a NS premier f1-r over a lib-tech t. rice c2 power banana? I want it strictly for carving the mountain and throwing spins off of natural booters. I ride in central NY so there is a good amount of pow, when we get lake effect, and of course ice


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## Guest (Sep 10, 2009)

After reading all this i made my mind up on a zero camber board from K2. I'll try that for a while and let the technology smoke settle down around the explosion of reversing the camber.


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## The Chairman (Aug 17, 2009)

Snow_omen said:


> wooo ok . i should have said that i have done my home work and that i just wanted to know what you guys thought of the ride. one versus the other. you know some old school versus new school comparison. If i get a revers camber it will be the k2's zero. I will ride i never summer if someone buys it for me.


Have fun on the K2 because no one is going to buy you an NS, unless its your mom


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## bubbachubba340 (Feb 10, 2009)

You could demo a NS.


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## Guest (Sep 11, 2009)

Vman said:


> Have fun on the K2 because no one is going to buy you an NS, unless its your mom


Wow dude pretty harsh! And yes to the other guy I plan on demoing the NS this January at demo days


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## BurtonAvenger (Aug 14, 2007)

cubllsu8338 said:


> So BA, would you buy recommend a NS premier f1-r over a lib-tech t. rice c2 power banana? I want it strictly for carving the mountain and throwing spins off of natural booters. I ride in central NY so there is a good amount of pow, when we get lake effect, and of course ice


If you're getting lake effect snow you're in Western NY as far as I'm concerned. Heavy wet pow you want to go NS all the way that's seriously what those boards destroy at. Plus the Vario doesn't grip like the MTX does and it allows for a better turn initiation in my opinion. Plus C2 just a rip off of R.C. tech.


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## Glade Ripper (Nov 12, 2008)

BurtonAvenger said:


> If you're getting lake effect snow you're in Western NY as far as I'm concerned. Heavy wet pow you want to go NS all the way that's seriously what those boards destroy at. Plus the Vario doesn't grip like the MTX does and it allows for a better turn initiation in my opinion. Plus C2 just a rip off of R.C. tech.


Thanks man. I value your opinion seeing how you have been on every board known to man kind. Looks like I'll be rocking the NS this year


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## FLuiD (Jul 6, 2009)

cubllsu8338 said:


> Thanks man. I value your opinion seeing how you have been on every board known to man kind. Looks like I'll be rocking the NS this year


Good choice!!!


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## Glade Ripper (Nov 12, 2008)

Think I might throw some Ride CADs on there. Thinks that's too stiff of a binding for that board? I have the NRCs on my k2 0 and love those. I believe they are a bit softer though


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## BurtonAvenger (Aug 14, 2007)

Nah man I think that's a fine set up.


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## Glade Ripper (Nov 12, 2008)

Excellent. Thanks again for the help. Love viewing your posts and blog. All very informative.


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## Guest (Sep 11, 2009)

I changed to a 156 wide lib banana this southern hemi season... took a few weeks to get used to it. i love it now. i found that it sucks in chopped pow, but doesnt everything. the answer to that is to go to the park. its a fun flex and grippy board. i am on a 156 for southern hemi snow - and had a 35 cm first tracks dry pow day at remarks in nz and the thing popped up like a cruiser. no major leaning back or anything. i have the wider board, and am 6ft 85kg (190lb). I have found tho, my stance is a little lower and wider which looks a little weird on footage. manuals, ollies, nose presses, nollies etc are hilarious tho. I love the board, and am gonna challenge it in japan in real pow conditions.... if its no good, i am that happy with the one i have now, i may just get a bigger version


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## Guest (Sep 13, 2009)

is other ppls opinion gonna matter? or convince you to buy one? 
then answer me why? cuz some ppl said they love it? to me reverse camber, normal camber, dual camber, is like comparing to freestyle board, freeride board or all mtn board, i like some reverse camber board and some reverse camber board i just really F**king hated if it wasnt demo i probably set it on fire... piece of shitness, then again it was my opinion, 
all i can say about camber or anti camber, its preference, keep in mind like normal camber boards, all reverse camber boards dont ride or feel the same they all give diff feels.


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## Guest (Oct 15, 2009)

LOL^ Wtf are you talking about? are you drunk?:dunno:


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## hanzosteel (Oct 7, 2009)

he's baaaaack.


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## legallyillegal (Oct 6, 2008)

soulrebel?


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## Patrollerer (Jun 6, 2009)

Go buy an INCA just to save their company from completely dying.


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## Guest (Nov 5, 2009)

BurtonAvenger said:


> If you're getting lake effect snow you're in Western NY as far as I'm concerned. Heavy wet pow you want to go NS all the way that's seriously what those boards destroy at. Plus the Vario doesn't grip like the MTX does and it allows for a better turn initiation in my opinion. Plus C2 just a rip off of R.C. tech.


Maybe but Lib perfected it!


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## Cr0_Reps_Smit (Jun 27, 2009)

Live2ridE said:


> Maybe but Lib perfected it!


NS already had it dailed in.


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## banana420 (Dec 7, 2009)

who cares who created it first. you dont hear people saying well so and soo created the rocker first and now everyone copied them. get on a board you like and ride. so many good boards in the past few years.


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## MunkySpunk (Jan 7, 2009)

Live2ridE said:


> Maybe but Lib perfected it!


Lib tech perfected nothing but fooling kids like you into thinking they're innovative. Way to fall for marketing ploys.


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## ---NT--- (Oct 11, 2009)

MunkySpunk said:


> Lib tech perfected nothing but fooling kids like you into thinking they're innovative. Way to fall for marketing ploys.


Know what you're talking about before you speak - Lib Tech IS innovative. You may not like their boards, but they've been on the cutting edge of developing new snowboard technology.


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## rjattack19 (Nov 7, 2008)

ive got a gnu CHB with banana traction this year, and to be totally honest i dont feel a HUGE difference. yes it does press easier, and yes the rocker does float nicely in powder but i think you lose a bit of pop because of the shape. dont get me wrong i love the board but i will def look into NS next time i need a board


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## Guest (Dec 27, 2009)

Rocker ftw.


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## Guest (Dec 30, 2009)

Just rode my friends skate banana, first time on a rocker/banana/whatever and I can say there is definitely a difference, not sure if it was good or bad tho. I love the ability to press and manual like you're a pro and the magne-traction does seem to carve deep and hold an edge well. 
What I didn't like was how wobbly and sketchy it felt while riding straight on no edge, and on the east coast with all the heavy snow on top of ice, it was kinda scary. I felt on super hard pack or ice the board would pull my toes back down towards the ground while trying to stop, a very nerve racking feeling. 
Truthfully, i'd love to have both a rocker and a camber to use on certain conditions, but i'll stick with my darkstar until I have the money to go buying another deck. Overall, cool and good on some aspects, but I'd rather have a little of a lot than a lot of a little, if you catch my drift.


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## Guest (Dec 30, 2009)

MunkySpunk said:


> Lib tech perfected nothing but fooling kids like you into thinking they're innovative. Way to fall for marketing ploys.


Heard this a lot at local shops when i was in breck. Also saw at *least* 25 banana's out there in 5 days. It was almost gross.


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## Tarzanman (Dec 20, 2008)

soulrebel said:


> Heard this a lot at local shops when i was in breck. Also saw at *least* 25 banana's out there in 5 days. It was almost gross.


Don't forget that Never Summer's headquarters is about 90 minutes from Breck, so the natives are understandably very defensive/protective of their local brand.


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## rasmasyean (Jan 26, 2008)

I tried a friend’s Lib-Tech Magnetraction banana board last year for a run. It wasn’t the yellow one but I forgot what model it was. In that one run I did notice that at first leaning on edge was kind of scary. It threw me off because it immediately engaged the edge and practically hooked into the direction of carve. It seemed to turn on a dime.

The other thing I noticed was when I first ollied on it, I thought I hit a kicker because I could have sworn it felt like a small bump threw me. So I looked back but there was no bump. I was ollieing it and it just felt like it tosses you up as you do it.

I was also doing ground spins and expectedly, it’s easier. It took a bit of getting used to because it would overspin real easy if I did it too fast, but I guess this is part of getting use to the board. But it just naturally spins for you when you initiate it.

I normally ride a 2006 Lib-Tech Dark Series (normal shape before the MTX BTX models). At least compared to this board, in this short period of trying the banana board I would definitely say it’s a different ride.


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## Guest (Jan 28, 2010)

The lib tech revolution is outta hand. Everyone has one and preaches the hell out of it.


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## myschims (Jan 11, 2010)

D Money said:


> The lib tech revolution is outta hand. Everyone has one and preaches the hell out of it.


never ridden one but maybe they have a reason to? ive heard they shred


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## ckang008 (May 18, 2009)

Rocker works for powder snow. that's for certain. Even C2BTX works better than regular camber. 

Though I prefer NS boards over Lib boards (seems much more sturdier for NS). But Magnatraction works very well


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## rasmasyean (Jan 26, 2008)

ckang008 said:


> Rocker works for powder snow. that's for certain. Even C2BTX works better than regular camber.
> 
> Though I prefer NS boards over Lib boards (seems much more sturdier for NS). But Magnatraction works very well


Yeah, I'll say that my Lib Tech Dark Series board's topsheet delammed here and there along the edges. Not too deep to expose the insides, but just like chips arround the edges. No big deal, but just makes it look a bit ugly. It could be that it was of "Sandwitch" construction and I'm just a maniac or crash into all the other skiis and boards at the lift trying to get in front of the line. :laugh: But I did read about this little quirk in reviews. I had a Lib Tech "Cap" construction before and it never had any chips.


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## bryantp (Dec 1, 2008)

*Lib Tech*

I've ridden a used Lib Tech Travis Rice for 2 years. I love magnetraction. It is different. But, if you're on something very steep and icy, it's nice. It doesn't turn ice into powder...that's silly...but it does help you maintain control. You do need to maintain an edge with it. Riding it flat can be a bit sketchy. Still, I like it and will stay with it...except on powder days. Then the NS Summit comes out. Trying to make one board that is everything is insane. Riding a steep, narrow icy trail is totally different than a wide open powder bowl. It's not surprising then that the board that does one very well only does okay on the other.


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## ckang008 (May 18, 2009)

bryantp said:


> I've ridden a used Lib Tech Travis Rice for 2 years. I love magnetraction. It is different. But, if you're on something very steep and icy, it's nice. It doesn't turn ice into powder...that's silly...but it does help you maintain control. You do need to maintain an edge with it. Riding it flat can be a bit sketchy. Still, I like it and will stay with it...except on powder days. Then the NS Summit comes out. Trying to make one board that is everything is insane. Riding a steep, narrow icy trail is totally different than a wide open powder bowl. It's not surprising then that the board that does one very well only does okay on the other.



haha! what a coincidence. I'm in Japan (Tokyo in fact), and I own both TRice (C2BTX) and 07 NS Summit. Which year Summit you ride? Cost me a fortune to ship my Summit from Canada to Tokyo.


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## bryantp (Dec 1, 2008)

*Coincidence*

I think the Summit is an 07 also. It has the Fuji picture on it.

T.Rice one I bought used...well used...but it's a lot of fun.

I live on Yokota AB so my shipping costs are a bit more affordable.


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## ckang008 (May 18, 2009)

bryantp said:


> I think the Summit is an 07 also. It has the Fuji picture on it.
> 
> T.Rice one I bought used...well used...but it's a lot of fun.
> 
> I live on Yokota AB so my shipping costs are a bit more affordable.





Ya, that's a 06/07. Which size you have? I'm riding the 161cm. I was thinking of getting this year's Summit with the rocker profile and maybe getting a larger size (167cm) U think it's better to get larger size for Japan mountains?


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## ckang008 (May 18, 2009)

bryantp said:


> I think the Summit is an 07 also. It has the Fuji picture on it.
> 
> T.Rice one I bought used...well used...but it's a lot of fun.
> 
> I live on Yokota AB so my shipping costs are a bit more affordable.





Ya, that's a 06/07. Which size you have? I'm riding the 161cm. I was thinking of getting this year's Summit with the rocker profile and maybe getting a larger size (167cm) U think it's better to get larger size for Japan mountains?


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## rasmasyean (Jan 26, 2008)

They don't make snowboards in Japan or something? 

Well...I guess it's time for Sony to venture into a new business oportunity! :laugh:


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## bryantp (Dec 1, 2008)

*Boarding*

I have the 161 or 164...not sure. That board's in Colorado, waiting for my arrival. I think the 167 is a better choice for Japan. We've got serious flat spots sometimes and need the extra float. I've never bogged down in Colorado but have here...even using poles ;-) Of course, some of the problem is my serious lack of skills but I'm working on it.

Next year, Nidecker will produce a Jeremy Jones-branded board. I'm waiting to see it before pulling the trigger. If it dazzles me, I'm on it. If not, NS Summer Split Summit. Got to work on conditioning but I keep seeing virgin mountains with excellent snow.


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## ckang008 (May 18, 2009)

rasmasyean said:


> They don't make snowboards in Japan or something?
> 
> Well...I guess it's time for Sony to venture into a new business oportunity! :laugh:



They make boards here. In fact, very good quality stuff such as Yonex Snowboard but usually they cost a fortune (around 90000 yen). markup for american made board are pretty high too. Since I have company shipping allowance, I use that to ship my board over here and save couple hundred bucks.


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## ckang008 (May 18, 2009)

bryantp said:


> I have the 161 or 164...not sure. That board's in Colorado, waiting for my arrival. I think the 167 is a better choice for Japan. We've got serious flat spots sometimes and need the extra float. I've never bogged down in Colorado but have here...even using poles ;-) Of course, some of the problem is my serious lack of skills but I'm working on it.
> 
> Next year, Nidecker will produce a Jeremy Jones-branded board. I'm waiting to see it before pulling the trigger. If it dazzles me, I'm on it. If not, NS Summer Split Summit. Got to work on conditioning but I keep seeing virgin mountains with excellent snow.



Ah, that's quite true with the flats. I guess 167 will be a nice choice and seriously considering it right now.


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## bryantp (Dec 1, 2008)

*Japanese snowboards*

There's the Gentemstick too. Very nice board...around $1600 or so. Tried one in Colorado last year...the irony is killing me...and was impressed. However, the board was more than I could handle on the steeps. 

My shipping costs are the same as if I lived in San Francisco. So, I can save some serious money buying from the U.S. Markup is higher here. I wanted a certain Seiko watch. I found it here but it cost $150 more than the exact same model in the U.S. Plus, the band was too small for me.


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## phile00 (Jan 7, 2009)

The first 10 seconds I rode my EVO-R, I knew Never Summer had a winner on their hands. It seemed about as versatile as my Bataleon Goliath, but in all honesty, I need to really take in down some steeps first. In my review in the equipment section, someone mentioned the EVO-R handles the steeps pretty well also, but I want to compare it to my Goliath specifically.

*BA*: Btw, I think I read a couple reviews of Bataleon boards you did last year, but if I could request an article on your blog, I'd really like you to pick apart TBT and let us know what you think. It would provide a nice contrast to your camber articles, since Bataleon seems to look at the "problem" from a different perspective.

For me, I easily noticed the difference between TBT (which has camber of course) and a traditional cambered board. The 3d shape is actually pretty interesting in terms of flex dynamics while riding and carving the board. Would I be wrong in saying a comparable tech in terms of feel (but not necessarily overall performance or execution) would be akin to a YES board or a Rossignol Angus?


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## rasmasyean (Jan 26, 2008)

Damn all these base configurations give me a head-ache. I guess it's pretty cool that ppl are thinking of new ways to solve specific "problems". But I guess that means you need to buy a whole bunch of boards to ride different terrains. I can just see the next fad...

CONCAVE BASE! 
Why do you need to ride on the base at all? 
Ptex just slows you down and causes FRICTION! ..the bane of your ride!
Carving those turns on only the steel edge is like ice skating on snow!
Zero slipping is the only way to ride a snowboard!
At ZeroBase Snowboards, we want to give you only THE EDGE!

:laugh:


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## phile00 (Jan 7, 2009)

rasmasyean said:


> Damn all these base configurations give me a head-ache. I guess it's pretty cool that ppl are thinking of new ways to solve specific "problems". But I guess that means you need to buy a whole bunch of boards to ride different terrains. I can just see the next fad...
> 
> CONCAVE BASE!
> Why do you need to ride on the base at all?
> ...


It's funny you mention this, because I was thinking about how badly I wanted to do a parody of new snowboarding technologies. I'd photoshop a snowboard with air foils, a couple of jets, a shape changing base, and an encapsulated, heated cockpit you could sit in while it did the carving & tricks for you.


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