# Adding forward lean - how will it change my riding?



## tokyo_dom (Jan 7, 2013)

I am thinking about adding a bunch of forward lean to my bindings, to get some more power in my heelside carving. But if i do this, will it cause trouble on my freestyle/rail riding ability?

Currently my flow bindings are set to zero lean, or possibly even negative (when i stand up, there is a good inch between the highback and my boot). I read that zero lean is what all the freestyle riders want, and after adjusting the heelcup on the flows forward (size 9 boot on an L/XL binding), and moving the wire mounting point, i figured "fine leave it like that"

On other bindings, i wouldnt bother asking - just adjust the lean screw and try! But on my bindings i am already at the max forward adjustment. To go any further i need to move the wire mount (a 30 minute job with bindings off). And i dont want to do that, only to realise on the mountain that i can no longer ride rails due to forward lean...

So yeah, can i ride rails ok with a decent amount of forward lean? Or do i need to set up a dedicated carving board + a dedicated jib board?


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## linvillegorge (Jul 6, 2009)

Not much of a park rat myself, but even as an all-mountain/freeride guy, I'm not a big fan of forward lean. Seems like a bandaid to me if I'm being honest.


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## deagol (Mar 26, 2014)

I tried some forward lean years ago and was miserable. It forces you in an uncomfortable squat that works your quads. Ironically, I also thought it actually hurt my heelside carves since I could not get my center of gravity farther over the edge than I could without forward lean. It would be interesting to get other people's perspectives about this since I am not sure if my experience was some sort of fluke. As is always the case with stuff like this: YMMV


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## CassMT (Mar 14, 2013)

yeh, forward lean is not the answer, maybe a few degrees gradually, but no need to go crazy. personally i hate how it digs in the calf when carving with too much lean. and by all means, if you have the means, set up a park deck and a freeride


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## tokyo_dom (Jan 7, 2013)

Hmm sounds like it isnt such a great idea then? I do have two sets of bindings, so i might just set my burtons with all the forward lean on my cambered deck and see how that goes. Unfortunately while i have multiple boards, i can only take one at a time with me to the mountain (i take buses), and right now i am focused on locking my FS boardslides and BS 180s, so i wont be able to try it out for a while (using my killbox for jibs since i dont mind if it gets ripped up)

Actually this idea came from Ryan Knapton's new video where he suggests that forward lean puts your knees in the right position to absorb chatter on a heelside carve. Made sense to me since there is only so far you can go to get an edge on your heelside without straightening your legs.


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## linvillegorge (Jul 6, 2009)

Like everything else, give it a shot and see if it works for you.

What I hate about forward lean is your inability to stand up. If you're cruising across a flat or a cat track and wanna stand up and take a break, you can't do that if you've cranked down a bunch of forward lean.


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## deagol (Mar 26, 2014)

can't hurt to try it. You can always move it back.. when i did it, I probably went too far. I am still making tweaks to my stance setup after more than two decades of this stuff...


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## linvillegorge (Jul 6, 2009)

Yep, seems like I never quit tweaking. Constantly messing with angles. +18/-6 seems to be the sweet spot right now.


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## tokyo_dom (Jan 7, 2013)

Was hoping to hear a lot more "Ah if you arent tweaking the hell outta your rails zero forward is overrated"

But it sounds like the opposite. 

Unfortunately, to try it and find what everyone else is saying here, it would mean a day of not much jibbing (if its on my camber board), or an hour out of my day (possibly) to move the wire mounting point back on my jib board


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## linvillegorge (Jul 6, 2009)

Doesn't take long to adjust your forward lean. Not like it's a day killer if you try it and don't like it.


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

Fwd lean on park is not that nice. It's ok for approach carves... but when you're on a box (and i assume rails too), every little twitch gets tranferrd to the board and it wants to go on edge = bad.

I ride a bit of fwd lean for everything. But nothing extreme; just enough to touch my calves without adding pressure. Good for all mtn, jumps and good on the few boxes i hit.

Angles... I don't touch. +18 -9. I kinda want to try full fwd stance, but always dismiss it cause.... lazy.


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## CassMT (Mar 14, 2013)

if you wanna tweak something for better carving forget forward lean, try a forward stance. wait , what? yep, said it


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## linvillegorge (Jul 6, 2009)

F1EA said:


> but when you're on a box... every little twitch gets transferred


wait... WTF are we taking about here?


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

linvillegorge said:


> wait... WTF are we taking about here?


fwd stances?


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## tokyo_dom (Jan 7, 2013)

I dont want to get cooties from some box i'm riding, so i might just leave the forward lean out of it until i am comfortable with the missionary... i mean frontside slides

But now that you mention forward stance, i am tempted to set up my camber board with forward stances and some forward lean. I predict i will be euro-carving underneath go slow signs. Havent used forward stances since i can remember!


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## linvillegorge (Jul 6, 2009)

Ugh. Forward stance is gross. But if you feel you must, go ahead and try it.


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## booron (Mar 22, 2014)

F1EA said:


> I ride a bit of fwd lean for everything. But nothing extreme; just enough to touch my calves without adding pressure. .


Yep, if you just want to try it strap your empty boots on there and adjust the high backs until they just barely touch the back of your boots...


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## Bamfboardman (Dec 11, 2012)

I add a little bit over forward lean to my bindings when its icy or concrete like snow. It helps and I never notice it.


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## linvillegorge (Jul 6, 2009)

Bamfboardman said:


> It helps and I never notice it.


Wait, what?

Does it help or do you never notice it? I don't see how it can possibly be both.


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## IS3_FTW (Jan 21, 2013)

deagol said:


> I tried some forward lean years ago and was miserable. It forces you in an uncomfortable squat that works your quads. Ironically, I also thought it actually hurt my heelside carves since I could not get my center of gravity farther over the edge than I could without forward lean. It would be interesting to get other people's perspectives about this since I am not sure if my experience was some sort of fluke. As is always the case with stuff like this: YMMV


It is a crutch to use forward lean. I do a few degree as it helps me do front side carves, which i was having a hard time doing. However, in reverse, its weakened my back side carves. Now to go back to neutral and try my luck without any forward lean :embarrased1:


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## Bamfboardman (Dec 11, 2012)

linvillegorge said:


> Wait, what?
> 
> Does it help or do you never notice it? I don't see how it can possibly be both.


I don't notice being in an uncomfortable position and it helps with heel edge power. My bad


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## ETM (Aug 11, 2009)

I put my boot in the binding and bring the forward lean in till it touches the boot, then remove the boot and bring it in a touch more.
Not too much, it's not a top control arm DOM!!!

IMO practice your fore−aft movement while heelside, that is usually the issue when you're washing out.


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## Max Agro (Jan 3, 2015)

I've had exactly the opposite experience of almost everyone that commented so far. I always crank my forward lean to the max (and I have for many years) and I love it. But I really carve all the time - I find it great for all-round riding and for setting up tricks and jumps. But to each his/her own.


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## tokyo_dom (Jan 7, 2013)

ETM said:


> Not too much, it's not a top control arm DOM!!!


:laughat2: you got me there. Was going to go for 10 degrees of camber and have it sitting slammed on its guts.



ETM said:


> IMO practice your fore−aft movement while heelside, that is usually the issue when you're washing out.


Well i did end up trying it - just to see how much extra camber... i mean lean i got when i put the wire mounting point one stop further. Turned out that while i spent 30 minutes each binding adjusting it when i bought the bindings, it took me 5 minutes the second time, so i figured it wouldnt be as much of a hassle if i had to do it on the mountain. The difference between the max forward lean adjustment before, and minimum forward lean with the wire 1 step forward was about 1.5cm at the top of the bindings (i.e. its a choice between zero and about 2-3 degrees i guess?) Enough to put a bit of pressure on the back of the boots where previously it wasnt touching.

Result on the mountain: Definitely felt it easier to get a solid heelside carve. This is on my Echelon Killbox, which has the 3D raised edges... This is meant to stop you catching on jibs, but also means that to turn you need to use a few degrees more board angle than other boards (most people comment on how it took some time to get used to it). Just a few degrees less effort required was noticeable.

Other than that i really didnt notice much difference though. Regular riding didnt change much, my box game didnt improve/decline much (its not a very high point to start with). I *think* i was washing out less on spins that i landed on my heelside, but thats possibly placebo.

Sucks that i cant really adjust between this and the regular zero angle very easily. Sounds like most people say you should be comfortable without forward lean, so i might put it back to make sure i dont use it as a crutch :injured:


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## iamok (Jan 25, 2020)

Not for the topic starter, but for anyone who accidentally would read this -
(As an old dude) Ive found that forward lean puts you in better position to squat on landings and absorb the impact.
Also, it improves backside turns and this makes approach to backside rail tricks way easier.

As for turning and carving - its just waste of time to do so without forward lean ))


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## Craig64 (Jul 16, 2015)

I like forward lean heaps and set up to between F4-5. Great for instant engaging of heelside turns. I'm not a park rider. Hard charger.


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## Jimi7 (Jan 14, 2020)

Craig51 said:


> I like forward lean heaps and set up to between F4-5. Great for instant engaging of heelside turns. I'm not a park rider. Hard charger.


What he said...


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