# Wide Boot Fit Struggles



## yertle27 (Dec 8, 2021)

I would go to a store if possible and try them on. I used that thread as well, was told to get an E width/given 2 suggestions that didn't work AT ALL. Went into the store and found a non-wide boot that fits me PERFECTLY. 

I was told a 10.5 was my fit but my toes were curled under in 2 different brands (wear a size 12.5 regular shoe). Went to the store and all 3 employees agreed 10.5 was way too small, got me in an 11. Check your boot length, try a half size up.


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## E.Schnee (Jan 30, 2021)

I can not recommend the photons. Unlike the burton rulers or the ions the photons are not acually wide but just come with a thinner liner to make room in the toe area. Also most brands (obviously with exceptions) make their boots for a certain foot shape and just change flex and lacing options. So in most cases if one boot doesn't fit your foot shape other models of the same brand won't fit either. 

Maybe try on some Adidas Tacticals as well. Built quality is really nice and the toebox is roomy! The Lasso Pro seems a nice option as well. Give us some feedback on those if you choose these since there is not much info available on those.

The thing with most boots is that they lose their flex really quickly (especially burtons). So a stiffer boot will be a mid flexing boot after two weeks of proper riding. The good thing is they will stay mid stiff for a long time before they die. This is why it is way harder to find boots that are actually stiff after braking in. So don't stress on boots being a bit too stiff when first trying.


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## E.Schnee (Jan 30, 2021)

yertle27 said:


> I would go to a store if possible and try them on. I used that thread as well, was told to get an E width/given 2 suggestions that didn't work AT ALL. Went into the store and found a non-wide boot that fits me PERFECTLY.


What non-wide boot did you get?


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## unsuspected (Oct 26, 2015)

kelvinator said:


> Near the end of last season I found this forum, measured my feet and posted on the wiredsport recommendation thread. I am a Mondopoint 260 with EEE width. I tried the Salomon Dialogue Wide and had bad toe jam issues with those. Maybe just too loose ultimately even though I sized them correctly. I then picked up the Burton Ruler Wides and had better luck with those. However, my toe jam issue didn't disappear completely. It just went from really painful with the Salomon boots to sore during the day and the day after with the Burton boots. I also use high arch Evo footbeds. It seems like the issue really materializes when I am on my heel edge putting a lot of pressure. Maybe the boots just packed out enough to be too big effectively. Maybe I should have gone half a size down. Technically my feet are about 25.5cm in length with one being a tiny bit longer than the other. About 10.5 cm in width.
> 
> *I am getting frustrated and am looking for feedback from others since there aren't many wide boot options.*
> 
> I plan to order the Ride Lasso Pro Wide and the Burton Photo wide in my Mondopoint size and maybe a half size down as well. There aren't any other wide models out there to try AFAIK other than the K2 Mayasis which seem of low quality for the price when I tried them on at Evo last year. My concern with the Photon and Ride Lasso are the fact that they are stiffer boots which is fine for some of the riding I do but when I spend time in the terrain park and such less stiff boots would be nice.


Salomon wides are E width and Burton wides are EEE.


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## kelvinator (Mar 14, 2021)

yertle27 said:


> I would go to a store if possible and try them on. I used that thread as well, was told to get an E width/given 2 suggestions that didn't work AT ALL. Went into the store and found a non-wide boot that fits me PERFECTLY.
> 
> I was told a 10.5 was my fit but my toes were curled under in 2 different brands (wear a size 12.5 regular shoe). Went to the store and all 3 employees agreed 10.5 was way too small, got me in an 11. Check your boot length, try a half size up.


Thanks for sharing your experience! I guess I need to do more experimentation. However, in my particular case I don't know that I would consider my Burton Ruler Wides as too small. Burton wide boots do run in an EEE which is what I am and when I tried the boots after buying them they fit as they should have. However, I am obviously getting the toe jam issue. I do get a tiny bit of heel lift in my right boot as well at times. Gives me the impression that after packing out they might be too big.



E.Schnee said:


> I can not recommend the photons. Unlike the burton rulers or the ions the photons are not acually wide but just come with a thinner liner to make room in the toe area. Also most brands (obviously with exceptions) make their boots for a certain foot shape and just change flex and lacing options. So in most cases if one boot doesn't fit your foot shape other models of the same brand won't fit either.
> 
> Maybe try on some Adidas Tacticals as well. Built quality is really nice and the toebox is roomy! The Lasso Pro seems a nice option as well. Give us some feedback on those if you choose these since there is not much info available on those.
> 
> The thing with most boots is that they lose their flex really quickly (especially burtons). So a stiffer boot will be a mid flexing boot after two weeks of proper riding. The good thing is they will stay mid stiff for a long time before they die. This is why it is way harder to find boots that are actually stiff after braking in. So don't stress on boots being a bit too stiff when first trying.


Hmmm I didn't know that. I will cancel my order. Thanks for the info. Are you certain the new 2022 Photons are not truly EEE width like the other Burton wide boots?

I just ordered some ADV Tactical Lexicons. My one concern is the lowest size is 8 which could potentially be too big but we will see. Also the Lasso Pro Wide does not come in a 7.5 half size. Only 7 and 8 and then half sizes from there so I am slightly worried it might be too big. I just learned that Thirty Two makes TM2's in a wide fit so I might try those out as well.

Good points on the stiffness thanks. I think ultimately I would prefer two pairs of boots. One that is less stiff for freestyle/fun and something more stiff for freeride. Gotta figure out one pair first though.



unsuspected said:


> Salomon wides are E width and Burton wides are EEE.


Interesting. I found that the Salomons felt wide enough but the toe jam was painfully bad so they just didn't work out. Maybe they were just too big but they certainly didn't hold my heel in place well enough. The build quality of their boots is outstanding though. I have had good luck with their hiking boots.


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## bseracka (Nov 14, 2011)

One thing to consider is that in many cases two jam is caused by the foot sliding in a boot that is too loose, preventing the boot from holding the foot in place. For example my boot is a tight fit to the point that standing up or walking around my toe has firm pressure against the front of the boot. With knees bent and in a riding position my toes are in comfortable contact with the front of the boot. Because my boot fits tightly everywhere my foot doesn’t slide and I don’t jamb my toes despite being right up against the front of the boot.


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## kelvinator (Mar 14, 2021)

bseracka said:


> One thing to consider is that in many cases two jam is caused by the foot sliding in a boot that is too loose, preventing the boot from holding the foot in place. For example my boot is a tight fit to the point that standing up or walking around my toe has firm pressure against the front of the boot. With knees bent and in a riding position my toes are in comfortable contact with the front of the boot. Because my boot fits tightly everywhere my foot doesn’t slide and I don’t jamb my toes despite being right up against the front of the boot.


Yeah all good points. I have been thinking the same things about my issue. Especially considering no amount of tightening the boas alleviates the issue and usually just cuts off circulation or makes the boots uncomfortable. I could try the same boots in a half size or full size smaller but I am also just worried about the same thing happening or them not working for some other reason and being out of a bunch more money. Trying to find proper fitting boots that are comfortable seems incredibly difficult and is a very frustrating experience since I have never had boots that fit right and are totally comfortable in 20 years of boarding.


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## E.Schnee (Jan 30, 2021)

kelvinator said:


> Hmmm I didn't know that. I will cancel my order. Thanks for the info. Are you certain the new 2022 Photons are not truly EEE width like the other Burton wide boots?
> 
> I just ordered some ADV Tactical Lexicons. My one concern is the lowest size is 8 which could potentially be too big but we will see. Also the Lasso Pro Wide does not come in a 7.5 half size. Only 7 and 8 and then half sizes from there so I am slightly worried it might be too big. I just learned that Thirty Two makes TM2's in a wide fit so I might try those out as well.
> 
> Good points on the stiffness thanks. I think ultimately I would prefer two pairs of boots. One that is less stiff for freestyle/fun and something more stiff for freeride. Gotta figure out one pair first though.


Well I'm 90% sure... I got the 2021 model but there is a picture of the 2022 liner on burtons website. You can see the silver neoprene patch in the toe area. That's exactly the same as the 2021 version. Compare it to the ion or the ruler liner and you'll see what I mean.

I don't really get why Adidas doesn't make smaller sizes, as well as women's sizes. Also the lasso pro only in 7 or 8 is super annoying. But maybe you will find some info that they either run too small or too big. Since mondo is only the foot size that they designed the boot around. That does not mean they actually did a good job at getting the fit right.

Thirty two TM2's might be the ones you're looking for!! Also there's the BodeMerril version with the double boa. Might be hard to find them in your size tho.


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## teknodude (Jan 2, 2017)

I have the Dialogue wide in US 7 (my mondo is 250) and have bruised big toe issues as well. My left is almost fully grown back from last season.

Have you tried ankle wraps (butterfly) or jbars. They didn’t work for me, but it’s worth a try. I tried tightening the boa laces more, but that just causes circulation and numbness problems.

Another thought is to try elevating the heel, so that it moves the big toe back a little. I bought some heel inserts that can adjust height with different layers, so I’m going to try the next time I board.


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## SoaD009 (Jan 9, 2020)

I’ve used the new ThirtyTwo TM-2 wides a few times this season and have been pleased thus far.


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

kelvinator said:


> Near the end of last season I found this forum, measured my feet and posted on the wiredsport recommendation thread. I am a Mondopoint 260 with EEE width. I tried the Salomon Dialogue Wide and had bad toe jam issues with those. Maybe just too loose ultimately even though I sized them correctly. I then picked up the Burton Ruler Wides and had better luck with those. However, my toe jam issue didn't disappear completely. It just went from really painful with the Salomon boots to sore during the day and the day after with the Burton boots. I also use high arch Evo footbeds. It seems like the issue really materializes when I am on my heel edge putting a lot of pressure. Maybe the boots just packed out enough to be too big effectively. Maybe I should have gone half a size down. Technically my feet are about 25.5cm in length with one being a tiny bit longer than the other. About 10.5 cm in width.
> 
> *I am getting frustrated and am looking for feedback from others since there aren't many wide boot options.*
> 
> I plan to order the Ride Lasso Pro Wide and the Burton Photo wide in my Mondopoint size and maybe a half size down as well. There aren't any other wide models out there to try AFAIK other than the K2 Mayasis which seem of low quality for the price when I tried them on at Evo last year. My concern with the Photon and Ride Lasso are the fact that they are stiffer boots which is fine for some of the riding I do but when I spend time in the terrain park and such less stiff boots would be nice.


Hi Kelvinator,

Based on the info above you are Mondopoint 255 or size 7.5 US in snowboard boots. You also mentioned EEE width. Please post your four barefoot measurements. Neither of the boot sizes mentioned in your post would be correct for your foot or suggested based on these measurements. How were those selected?

STOKED!


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

teknodude said:


> I have the Dialogue wide in US 7 (my mondo is 250) and have bruised big toe issues as well. My left is almost fully grown back from last season.
> 
> Have you tried ankle wraps (butterfly) or jbars. They didn’t work for me, but it’s worth a try. I tried tightening the boa laces more, but that just causes circulation and numbness problems.
> 
> Another thought is to try elevating the heel, so that it moves the big toe back a little. I bought some heel inserts that can adjust height with different layers, so I’m going to try the next time I board.


Please also post up your four barefoot measurements. Black toenail are almost always from too large a boot which allows motion inside the boot. STOKED!


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

yertle27 said:


> I would go to a store if possible and try them on. I used that thread as well, was told to get an E width/given 2 suggestions that didn't work AT ALL. Went into the store and found a non-wide boot that fits me PERFECTLY.
> 
> I was told a 10.5 was my fit but my toes were curled under in 2 different brands (wear a size 12.5 regular shoe). Went to the store and all 3 employees agreed 10.5 was way too small, got me in an 11. Check your boot length, try a half size up.


Please post a link to your original fit thread.

STOKED!


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## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

OP a couple of things come to mind. @Kijima posted some pics of a great mod where he blew out the shell of his softboot using some block jigs and iirc a bit of heat from a heat gun and modded the liner. Another is butterflies or half butterflies and j bars help hold the heel down...however they don't push the heel back in the pocket. Thus ime the 2 things that keep your feet/toes pulled back are 1, footbeds/insoles with well fitting arch and 2, putting some extra 1/4" boot fitting foam in the lower shin area, just a bit above the front of the ankle on the outside of the tongue part of the liner. This will help push back your foot and make sure your heel is deep in the pocket when you snug down the cuff. Actually anymore its the cuff/ankle area that I pay attention to more and the foot/toe box has plenty of wiggle room/circulation. Thus these 2 thinks will help prevent your foot sliding forward on heelside and thus avoid toe jam/black toe. Also you know after break-in/pack out there often alot of room that forms...and in part that is why your foot begins to slide forward. Ime the pack out becomes more of the issue...and thus keeping the heel back in the pocket.


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## kelvinator (Mar 14, 2021)

E.Schnee said:


> Well I'm 90% sure... I got the 2021 model but there is a picture of the 2022 liner on burtons website. You can see the silver neoprene patch in the toe area. That's exactly the same as the 2021 version. Compare it to the ion or the ruler liner and you'll see what I mean.
> 
> I don't really get why Adidas doesn't make smaller sizes, as well as women's sizes. Also the lasso pro only in 7 or 8 is super annoying. But maybe you will find some info that they either run too small or too big. Since mondo is only the foot size that they designed the boot around. That does not mean they actually did a good job at getting the fit right.
> 
> Thirty two TM2's might be the ones you're looking for!! Also there's the BodeMerril version with the double boa. Might be hard to find them in your size tho.


Well I guess I will find out as they were unable to cancel my order. I also posted on a YouTube video by the House Outdoor Gear channel and he mentioned that this is probably true for the step in boots but the regular boots may actually have a wider liner. As for the Adidas and Ride Lasso Pro, yeah maybe I will get lucky and one of them will fit. It's so hard to tell sometimes because some boots just seem to fit right when you try them on but once you pack them out they change or just riding hard on them. I get toe jam when really putting a lot of pressure on my heel side which is pretty much impossible to replicate at home. I think a lot of companies suck at making boots that lock your heel in place. While I have a wider forefoot my heel isn't very wide AFAIK.



teknodude said:


> I have the Dialogue wide in US 7 (my mondo is 250) and have bruised big toe issues as well. My left is almost fully grown back from last season.
> 
> Have you tried ankle wraps (butterfly) or jbars. They didn’t work for me, but it’s worth a try. I tried tightening the boa laces more, but that just causes circulation and numbness problems.
> 
> Another thought is to try elevating the heel, so that it moves the big toe back a little. I bought some heel inserts that can adjust height with different layers, so I’m going to try the next time I board.


Dang! That doesn't sound fun. Sounds like you should also look for something else! I really liked the build quality of those boots but yeah the toe issues were just too much. My toe jam issues are fortunately not bad enough to bruise my toe enough to cause my nail to fall off. I have no tried ankle wraps or jbars but will look into those thank you! I have evo high arch insoles in my boots which I think do help.



SoaD009 said:


> I’ve used the new ThirtyTwo TM-2 wides a few times this season and have been pleased thus far.


Yeah unfortunately they only have size 8 and not 7.5 right now. But the 8's could be worth a try. I am technically in between size 7.5-8.



wrathfuldeity said:


> OP a couple of things come to mind. @Kijima posted some pics of a great mod where he blew out the shell of his softboot using some block jigs and iirc a bit of heat from a heat gun and modded the liner. Another is butterflies or half butterflies and j bars help hold the heel down...however they don't push the heel back in the pocket. Thus ime the 2 things that keep your feet/toes pulled back are 1, footbeds/insoles with well fitting arch and 2, putting some extra 1/4" boot fitting foam in the lower shin area, just a bit above the front of the ankle on the outside of the tongue part of the liner. This will help push back your foot and make sure your heel is deep in the pocket when you snug down the cuff. Actually anymore its the cuff/ankle area that I pay attention to more and the foot/toe box has plenty of wiggle room/circulation. Thus these 2 thinks will help prevent your foot sliding forward on heelside and thus avoid toe jam/black toe. Also you know after break-in/pack out there often alot of room that forms...and in part that is why your foot begins to slide forward. Ime the pack out becomes more of the issue...and thus keeping the heel back in the pocket.


Thank you! This is great information and insightful. What are boot butterflies? I do already use a high arch evo insole instead of the regular one. The foam in front of the ankle sounds like a great idea! This might at least help with my current boots until I can find something better.


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## kelvinator (Mar 14, 2021)

Wiredsport said:


> Hi Kelvinator,
> 
> Based on the info above you are Mondopoint 255 or size 7.5 US in snowboard boots. You also mentioned EEE width. Please post your four barefoot measurements. Neither of the boot sizes mentioned in your post would be correct for your foot or suggested based on these measurements. How were those selected?
> 
> STOKED!


*Right Foot*: Length: 25.6 cm, Width: 10.3-10.4 cm
*Left Foot*: Length: 25.8 cm, Width: 10.4 cm

These were taken this morning. A couple days ago I quickly retook them and got the 25.5 and 10.5.

My measurements from my original post last season were:

Right Foot: Length: 25.5 cm Width: 10.7 cm
Left Foot: Length: 25.7 cm Width: 10.5 cm 



Wiredsport said:


> Please also post up your four barefoot measurements. Black toenail are almost always from too large a boot which allows motion inside the boot. STOKED!


Fortunately it isn't bad enough to cause black toenail. Just sore toes.



Wiredsport said:


> Please post a link to your original fit thread.
> 
> STOKED!


I already posted the link to my original thread in the OP. Hyperlinked on the thread word.


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

Hi Kelvin,

Got it and thanks! Based on your old thread and this new confirmation you are not Mondo 255 but Mondo 260. You are at the smaller side of the range for this size with one foot being Mondopoint 255. This is size 8 in snowboard boots. Your smaller foot is size 7.5 and will have some room to move which can certainly cause toe bang issues. Heat fit will not have had any effect on that smaller foot as the boot is technically too large. The Salomon Wide boots are E width and would not have been suggested. Those are two width size smaller than your foot and will feel way to short at the outer toes. We need to match both length and width. Have you ridden your Burton's without the aftermarket footbeds. A footbed which does not suit the boot can cause big problems. Also please tell me your socks. 

STOKED!


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## kelvinator (Mar 14, 2021)

Wiredsport said:


> Hi Kelvin,
> 
> Got it and thanks! Based on your old thread and this new confirmation you are not Mondo 255 but Mondo 260. You are at the smaller side of the range for this size with one foot being Mondopoint 255. This is size 8 in snowboard boots. Your smaller foot is size 7.5 and will have some room to move which can certainly cause toe bang issues. Heat fit will not have had any effect on that smaller foot as the boot is technically too large. The Salomon Wide boots are E width and would not have been suggested. Those are two width size smaller than your foot and will feel way to short at the outer toes. We need to match both length and width. Have you ridden your Burton's without the aftermarket footbeds. A footbed which does not suit the boot can cause big problems. Also please tell me your socks.
> 
> STOKED!


Yeah I agree with you and every boot I have purchased so far as been a size 8. However, the way the Burtons packed out does make me wonder if the 7.5 would have been better. I also have the toe bang issues in both feet and don't notice them being worse off in one or the other.

Makes sense on the Salomon boots but to be fair those boots felt plenty roomy in the toe box. They just didn't seem to hold my heel well enough to prevent me from getting the toe jam. 

I have not ridden my burtons without the aftermarket footbeds. Good to know though! I will try doing so next time I ride them.

I am using Darn Tough wool snowboard/ski socks. I don't know the exact model but they are fairly thin.


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

Yes, foot beds that are more pronounced than the design footbed can effectively lift and shorten the foot by creating more toe to heel curvature. As you are already at the very small side of the spectrum this could be problematic. I always suggest that riders begin with no aftermarket accessories and proceed based on that experience.

STOKED!


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## kelvinator (Mar 14, 2021)

Wiredsport said:


> Yes, foot beds that are more pronounced than the design footbed can effectively lift and shorten the foot by creating more toe to heel curvature. As you are already at the very small side of the spectrum this could be problematic. I always suggest that riders begin with no aftermarket accessories and proceed based on that experience.
> 
> STOKED!


While I am not sure I totally understand how the aftermarket footbed could be the source of the issue I will try them with the stock foot beds and report back. I was using Evo high arch footbeds as I do have a high arch. According to Evo they should help keep my foot from sliding forward. They also don't seem much bulkier than the stock ones. Having minimal arch support with high arches also seems like a downside long term. But anyways, we will see how the standard footbeds work out!


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## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

kelvinator said:


> While I am not sure I totally understand how the aftermarket footbed could be the source of the issue I will try them with the stock foot beds and report back. I was using Evo high arch footbeds as I do have a high arch. According to Evo they should help keep my foot from sliding forward. They also don't seem much bulkier than the stock ones. Having minimal arch support with high arches also seems like a downside long term. But anyways, we will see how the standard footbeds work out!


Cursed with small feet (mondo 24's) With 32's...men's 7 > women's 8 > women' 7.5 and could probably get in to women's 7 but didn't go there because I needed stiffer boots. So instead I went to AT boots (women's 24's) Atomic Backlands non-carbon and could not be happier...with mods they fit perfectly, more comfortable, more performance and more range of adjusting flex. At least for me, AT boots were a game changer...performance slippers (see link below for all the mods). Use butterfly ankle wraps (link below)...or just cut some out from a sheet of adhesive foam...iirc 3/8 or 1/4?. The wraps, essentially make the heel pocket deeper. Then with the foam on the liner's tongue...pushing your heel back via snugging the cuff; the heel is deeper in the pocket...really locks my heel down. I hate heel lift...any more than 1/8" is unacceptable.

As for footbeds, having high arches and small feet, I use Ed Vissure "Sole"...the blue ones. Don't be afraid to cut them down to size and to grind off a tad with a bench belt sander (1-2 mm) on the bottom if you need a small bit of room...(after the packout period of the liners.) So go to the store and try standing on various footbeds and try to match your arch to the arch of the footbed. I even over did it just a very small tad and my foot adjusted in a few days...to get your feet used to them, just wear in your regular shoes. Or if you go with the "sole" you could just heat them up a tad with a heat gun. 

As for your slightly smaller foot, you could use a boot shim under the liner to soak up a half a size...try using just a piece or 2 of flexible plastic that is slightly smaller than the footprint of the liner.

The thing about getting a performance fit...is the rule..."a little goes a long way." So do a little tweak, ride and repeat if needed. The reason for the rule is that you are really doing the tweaks for when your boots are snugged up and you are riding...so very small tweaks make big changes...because your snugged tolerances are so small. Sorting out the slack...its better to just do one thing and adjust...as you get one thing fixed, there is often another thing to be adjusted...it eventually all comes togather and when it does...its great...performance slippers. And then the next time/boots you will have a much better idea of what to do to get the performance fit. In fact, the cheater/easier thing is to just use your old liners in the new boots...at least that's what I've done and have brand new extra liners for both my 32's and for my Backlands.

Have fun twinkle toes!

The hardboot ride...downhill? | Snowboarding Forum - Snowboard Enthusiast Forums

Snowboard & Ski Boot Fitting Tools | Tognar

SOLE Ed Viesturs Signature Series Custom Footbeds - High Volume | REI Co-op


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## Spid (Jan 4, 2022)

kelvinator said:


> Near the end of last season I found this forum, measured my feet and posted on the wiredsport recommendation thread. I am a Mondopoint 260 with EEE width. I tried the Salomon Dialogue Wide and had bad toe jam issues with those. Maybe just too loose ultimately even though I sized them correctly. I then picked up the Burton Ruler Wides and had better luck with those. However, my toe jam issue didn't disappear completely. It just went from really painful with the Salomon boots to sore during the day and the day after with the Burton boots. I also use high arch Evo footbeds. It seems like the issue really materializes when I am on my heel edge putting a lot of pressure. Maybe the boots just packed out enough to be too big effectively. Maybe I should have gone half a size down. Technically my feet are about 25.5cm in length with one being a tiny bit longer than the other. About 10.5 cm in width.
> 
> *I am getting frustrated and am looking for feedback from others since there aren't many wide boot options.*
> 
> I plan to order the Ride Lasso Pro Wide and the Burton Photo wide in my Mondopoint size and maybe a half size down as well. There aren't any other wide models out there to try AFAIK other than the K2 Mayasis which seem of low quality for the price when I tried them on at Evo last year. My concern with the Photon and Ride Lasso are the fact that they are stiffer boots which is fine for some of the riding I do but when I spend time in the terrain park and such less stiff boots would be nice.


Try on a pair of Burton Ion Leather boots. Not the fabric-shelI Ions. I have size 12 EEE feet with relatively narrow heels and these fit better than anything else I have tried. The leather ones fit wider and have a more progressive flex than the fabric ones. I ride about 120 days a year, mostly in Utah, and they tend to last a season. About two days to break in. I am 6'/188 pounds. Yours should last much longer.


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## kelvinator (Mar 14, 2021)

wrathfuldeity said:


> Cursed with small feet (mondo 24's) With 32's...men's 7 > women's 8 > women' 7.5 and could probably get in to women's 7 but didn't go there because I needed stiffer boots. So instead I went to AT boots (women's 24's) Atomic Backlands non-carbon and could not be happier...with mods they fit perfectly, more comfortable, more performance and more range of adjusting flex. At least for me, AT boots were a game changer...performance slippers (see link below for all the mods). Use butterfly ankle wraps (link below)...or just cut some out from a sheet of adhesive foam...iirc 3/8 or 1/4?. The wraps, essentially make the heel pocket deeper. Then with the foam on the liner's tongue...pushing your heel back via snugging the cuff; the heel is deeper in the pocket...really locks my heel down. I hate heel lift...any more than 1/8" is unacceptable.
> 
> As for footbeds, having high arches and small feet, I use Ed Vissure "Sole"...the blue ones. Don't be afraid to cut them down to size and to grind off a tad with a bench belt sander (1-2 mm) on the bottom if you need a small bit of room...(after the packout period of the liners.) So go to the store and try standing on various footbeds and try to match your arch to the arch of the footbed. I even over did it just a very small tad and my foot adjusted in a few days...to get your feet used to them, just wear in your regular shoes. Or if you go with the "sole" you could just heat them up a tad with a heat gun.
> 
> ...


Interesting. I hadn't thought about hard booting. Not sure that is for me but thanks for sharing your experience! Something to keep in mind as I try to sort out which boots will be ideal for me. I do really like the idea of using the foam on the liner to keep the heels pushed back into the boot. Which specific shape do you recommend? Do you put the foam on the inside or out side of the liner? Or does it go on the inside of the boot tongue?

Whats the benefit of the Ed Vissure "sole"? I already have the evo footbeds for high arches. At one point a long time ago I had custom insoles for my shoes and still have the foot molds so custom insoles is something I could also consider.


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## kelvinator (Mar 14, 2021)

Spid said:


> Try on a pair of Burton Ion Leather boots. Not the fabric-shelI Ions. I have size 12 EEE feet with relatively narrow heels and these fit better than anything else I have tried. The leather ones fit wider and have a more progressive flex than the fabric ones. I ride about 120 days a year, mostly in Utah, and they tend to last a season. About two days to break in. I am 6'/188 pounds. Yours should last much longer.


Interesting! Thanks for the tip! Checking these out they are quite spendy! Seems like you are mainly paying more for the leather/style. I currently have the Burton Photon Boa wide, Ride Lasso Pro wide, and the Adidas Tactical ADV Lexicons on the way so I think I will try those out first before considering something more expensive like the leather ions.


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## teknodude (Jan 2, 2017)

Wiredsport said:


> Please also post up your four barefoot measurements. Black toenail are almost always from too large a boot which allows motion inside the boot. STOKED!


I found the measurements I took a while back. In this thread post









Snowboard Boot Size Web Tool - Mondo, Brannock &amp...


Thanks for the help. Sent from my SM-G950U using [email protected] Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk




www.snowboardingforum.com





25 cm length
9.5 cm width

I took my measurements again and did it 3 times to ensure I didn’t measure wrong.

Left foot length: 25.1cm, 25.1 cm, 25.05 cm
Left foot width: 9.2 cm, 9.4 cm, 9.35cm

Right foot length: 24.95cm, 24.9 cm, 24.95 cm
Right foot width: 9.35cm , 9.5 cm, 9.4 cm

Most of the time, I get a sore left big toe. The boots fit snug in the morning, but my left starts to get painful in the afternoon. I usually have to stop, take off the left boot and re-lace. This seems to relieve the discomfort, but eventually comes back. By the end of the day, my left big toe is sore. I jammed my left towards the end of last season when I slipped on my heel side while traversing on a steep. My right big toe gets a little sore, but not all the time.


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## teknodude (Jan 2, 2017)

kelvinator said:


> Dang! That doesn't sound fun. Sounds like you should also look for something else! I really liked the build quality of those boots but yeah the toe issues were just too much. My toe jam issues are fortunately not bad enough to bruise my toe enough to cause my nail to fall off. I have no tried ankle wraps or jbars but will look into those thank you! I have evo high arch insoles in my boots which I think do help.


No it isn't. I bruised my left big toe during the last 2 seasons. I remember it vividly too. I was on a steep run and slipped on my heel side. While sliding down on my butt, my board was chattering on the snow and this caused by left toe to jam. Luckily, it happened towards end of the season.


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

teknodude said:


> I found the measurements I took a while back. In this thread post
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Hi Tekno,
25.1 is Mondo 255 or size 7.5 US in snowboard boots. You are an E width. While some riders do like to ride beneath their Mondopoint size, I do not suggest it. Even though they are too small, you may be able to work with your current boots to get a better fit. What socks are you using? Any footbeds? Was heat molding done?


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## teknodude (Jan 2, 2017)

Wiredsport said:


> Hi Tekno,
> 25.1 is Mondo 255 or size 7.5 US in snowboard boots. You are an E width. While some riders do like to ride beneath their Mondopoint size, I do not suggest it. Even though they are too small, you may be able to work with your current boots to get a better fit. What socks are you using? Any footbeds? Was heat molding done?


I wear Stance socks and I think they are the thinnest model. For footbeds, I'm currently using the Remind Medics. I was thinking that the added arch support would elevate my big toe. 

Heat molding was done. I did use a heat gun over the toe area last season to try to get more room. I looked at the area where my big toe resides and it's thinner than the rest of the boot, so I don't know if I can blow out that area any more.


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

Hi,

I am assuming the heat gun was not used on the liner, correct? Have you ridden without the footbeds? Aftermarket footbeds often take fit in the wrong direction. Was your heat fit done with these footbeds in place?

STOKED!


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## teknodude (Jan 2, 2017)

Wiredsport said:


> Hi,
> 
> I am assuming the heat gun was not used on the liner, correct? Have you ridden without the footbeds? Aftermarket footbeds often take fit in the wrong direction. Was your heat fit done with these footbeds in place?
> 
> STOKED!


I had the boots heat molded at a local sports shop with the original footbeds. After using the boots a few days, I used the heat gun on the toe area of the liner and swapped the footbeds. I haven't ridden without the footbeds yet.


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

OK, Many thoughts

A heat gun is way too hot for a snowboard boot liner. It will almost certainly have damaged the EVA. This causes the liner material to become non-compliant. Also your footbeds need to be in the liners during heat molding. If you change liners you need to heat mold again, but at this point with your liner condition, that will not help. In this case you really should get new boots.

STOKED!


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## WigMar (Mar 17, 2019)

kelvinator said:


> I do really like the idea of using the foam on the liner to keep the heels pushed back into the boot. Which specific shape do you recommend? Do you put the foam on the inside or out side of the liner? Or does it go on the inside of the boot tongue?


Check out Angry Snowboarder's Bootfit 101 series on youtube. It really helped me.


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## teknodude (Jan 2, 2017)

Wiredsport said:


> OK, Many thoughts
> 
> A heat gun is way too hot for a snowboard boot liner. It will almost certainly have damaged the EVA. This causes the liner material to become non-compliant. Also your footbeds need to be in the liners during heat molding. If you change liners you need to heat mold again, but at this point with your liner condition, that will not help. In this case you really should get new boots.
> 
> STOKED!


Damn. Well I tried my best to keep the gun away at the lowest setting. I guess this explains why that big toe area of the liner feels thinner than the other parts. I had thought that area was packing out due to the pressure from my big toe.

Is the Salomon Dialogue or Synapse wides still the recommended brand for my foot? I might have to tough it out this season, because I don't see any of the shops having the US 7.5 Wide. Thanks!


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

teknodude said:


> Damn. Well I tried my best to keep the gun away at the lowest setting. I guess this explains why that big toe area of the liner feels thinner than the other parts. I had thought that area was packing out due to the pressure from my big toe.
> 
> Is the Salomon Dialogue or Synapse wides still the recommended brand for my foot? I might have to tough it out this season, because I don't see any of the shops having the US 7.5 Wide. Thanks!


Hi, Yes, thinning and stiffening of the EVA is a telltale sign of overheating. This can happen at much lower temps than produced by a heat gun. It is very common with the "rice" method. Also yes to Salomon Wide boots. They will be great if you can find an E width in Mondo 255. 

STOKED!


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## kelvinator (Mar 14, 2021)

teknodude said:


> No it isn't. I bruised my left big toe during the last 2 seasons. I remember it vividly too. I was on a steep run and slipped on my heel side. While sliding down on my butt, my board was chattering on the snow and this caused by left toe to jam. Luckily, it happened towards end of the season.


Dang sounds like they are way too loose if slipping on your heel side cause them to jam that bad!


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## kelvinator (Mar 14, 2021)

Wiredsport said:


> Hi,
> 
> I am assuming the heat gun was not used on the liner, correct? Have you ridden without the footbeds? Aftermarket footbeds often take fit in the wrong direction. Was your heat fit done with these footbeds in place?
> 
> STOKED!


What do you suggest then for people who have high arches where pretty much all shoes and boots in existence don't have enough arch support for high arches? FYI, I never heat molded my burtons at all since I had ordered them online.


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## kelvinator (Mar 14, 2021)

teknodude said:


> Damn. Well I tried my best to keep the gun away at the lowest setting. I guess this explains why that big toe area of the liner feels thinner than the other parts. I had thought that area was packing out due to the pressure from my big toe.
> 
> Is the Salomon Dialogue or Synapse wides still the recommended brand for my foot? I might have to tough it out this season, because I don't see any of the shops having the US 7.5 Wide. Thanks!


I personally would be hesitant to try the Dialogues in wide in a 7.5 if you are already having issues with the size 7. Even though that is what Wiredsport is recommending. I have a EEE wide foot and the Dialogues in my proper size felt plenty for me and my feet would slip and hit the front bad enough to cause pretty bad toe jam. Not bad enough for noticeable bruising or my toenail to fall off but worse than my Burtons. Personally, I think that the boots might just not do a good job of locking your heel in. My feet felt really loose in those boots after like a couple days of trying them. Mine had the draw cord lacing system whereas the new ones appear to use boa so maybe it is a bit better but I wouldn't count on it.

I assume Wiredsport may disagree here but if you are a size E and regular is D then I feel like you could probably find a pair of boots that isn't a wide model that just run wide like the Adidas or just work with a local shop to find something. When I was working on boots with Evo they seemed like they could do a lot to the boot to modify it to make it work including stretching out the width.

FWIW, I previously tried a pair of Salomon Hiking shoes in a wide fit and my feet slipped in those as well and I got toe jam. I have however had good luck with their hiking boots in regular size being wide enough in the forefoot and thin enough in the heel.


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

kelvinator said:


> What do you suggest then for people who have high arches where pretty much all shoes and boots in existence don't have enough arch support for high arches? FYI, I never heat molded my burtons at all since I had ordered them online.


Hi kelvin.

I will be happy to help. It is important to note that there is a huge variety in aftermarket footbeds both stock and custom. The vary in height, curvature toe to heel, contour, length and width. While some are cut to size others are not. _Many footbeds will not work with a given boot_. In every instance the footbed needs to be in the liner during molding. That is the only way they will mate (to the degree that they will). 

The best spot to start is always to find your mondopoint size as described. Have the boots heat fit with the stock insert in place. Ride them. If after break in you are having comfort issues that is the time to consider aftermarket products. Making changes to a boot that has yet to settle in is not advised as you will need to redo those in short order. 

Salomon Wide boots fitting at EEE would be an outlier data point. That is is indeed contrary to broad experience with Salomon Wide models which are extremely reliable at E width and it is good that you are addressing your pair with the mfg.

STOKED!


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## tballs808 (Jan 6, 2022)

kelvinator said:


> Near the end of last season I found this forum, measured my feet and posted on the wiredsport recommendation thread. I am a Mondopoint 260 with EEE width. I tried the Salomon Dialogue Wide and had bad toe jam issues with those. Maybe just too loose ultimately even though I sized them correctly. I then picked up the Burton Ruler Wides and had better luck with those. However, my toe jam issue didn't disappear completely. It just went from really painful with the Salomon boots to sore during the day and the day after with the Burton boots. I also use high arch Evo footbeds. It seems like the issue really materializes when I am on my heel edge putting a lot of pressure. Maybe the boots just packed out enough to be too big effectively. Maybe I should have gone half a size down. Technically my feet are about 25.5cm in length with one being a tiny bit longer than the other. About 10.5 cm in width.
> 
> *I am getting frustrated and am looking for feedback from others since there aren't many wide boot options.*
> 
> I plan to order the Ride Lasso Pro Wide and the Burton Photo wide in my Mondopoint size and maybe a half size down as well. There aren't any other wide models out there to try AFAIK other than the K2 Mayasis which seem of low quality for the price when I tried them on at Evo last year. My concern with the Photon and Ride Lasso are the fact that they are stiffer boots which is fine for some of the riding I do but when I spend time in the terrain park and such less stiff boots would be nice.





kelvinator said:


> Near the end of last season I found this forum, measured my feet and posted on the wiredsport recommendation thread. I am a Mondopoint 260 with EEE width. I tried the Salomon Dialogue Wide and had bad toe jam issues with those. Maybe just too loose ultimately even though I sized them correctly. I then picked up the Burton Ruler Wides and had better luck with those. However, my toe jam issue didn't disappear completely. It just went from really painful with the Salomon boots to sore during the day and the day after with the Burton boots. I also use high arch Evo footbeds. It seems like the issue really materializes when I am on my heel edge putting a lot of pressure. Maybe the boots just packed out enough to be too big effectively. Maybe I should have gone half a size down. Technically my feet are about 25.5cm in length with one being a tiny bit longer than the other. About 10.5 cm in width.
> 
> *I am getting frustrated and am looking for feedback from others since there aren't many wide boot options.*
> 
> I plan to order the Ride Lasso Pro Wide and the Burton Photo wide in my Mondopoint size and maybe a half size down as well. There aren't any other wide models out there to try AFAIK other than the K2 Mayasis which seem of low quality for the price when I tried them on at Evo last year. My concern with the Photon and Ride Lasso are the fact that they are stiffer boots which is fine for some of the riding I do but when I spend time in the terrain park and such less stiff boots would be nice.


im a size 26.5 mondo left foot 26 right foot with eee also fat feet on top. Tried salomon synapse wide in 8.5, 9 & 9.5 each for one trip and all was miserable. Tried photon wide 9.5 one trip and could only ride for 2 hrs. Then found k2 thraxis in size 9.5 and can ride all day long. Give them a try


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

tballs808 said:


> im a size 26.5 mondo left foot 26 right foot with eee also fat feet on top. Tried salomon synapse wide in 8.5, 9 & 9.5 each for one trip and all was miserable. Tried photon wide 9.5 one trip and could only ride for 2 hrs. Then found k2 thraxis in size 9.5 and can ride all day long. Give them a try


Hi tballs,
Salomon's Wide boots are E width, so two width sizes too small for EEE. These would not be expected to work for you. Size 9.5 is a full size too large for your larger foot an 1.5 sizes too large for your smaller foot. We should really get a look at what is going on. Please post up images of your four barefoot measurements being taken. STOKED!


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## tballs808 (Jan 6, 2022)

Wiredsport said:


> Hi tballs,
> Salomon's Wide boots are E width, so two width sizes too small for EEE. These would not be expected to work for you. Size 9.5 is a full size too large for your larger foot an 1.5 sizes too large for your smaller foot. We should really get a look at what is going on. Please post up images of your four barefoot measurements being taken. STOKED!


i know the 1.5 is too large but since foot is fat on top (meaning from my toes to top of ankle is very high) feet doesnt move in the thraxis. Foot is locked in and no pain.


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## kelvinator (Mar 14, 2021)

Wiredsport said:


> Hi tballs,
> Salomon's Wide boots are E width, so two width sizes too small for EEE. These would not be expected to work for you. Size 9.5 is a full size too large for your larger foot an 1.5 sizes too large for your smaller foot. We should really get a look at what is going on. Please post up images of your four barefoot measurements being taken. STOKED!


I recognize the stats you are quoting are probably true based on what the manufacture is saying but I have a hard time believing that their numbers aren't bs or just off in some way. Maybe the Salomon wide boots are only width E but they were way looser than my EEE wide burtons. So either the manufacture stats are wrong or something else is going. IDK haha.


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## tballs808 (Jan 6, 2022)

kelvinator said:


> I recognize the stats you are quoting are probably true based on what the manufacture is saying but I have a hard time believing that their numbers aren't bs or just off in some way. Maybe the Salomon wide boots are only width E but they were way looser than my EEE wide burtons. So either the manufacture stats are wrong or something else is going. IDK haha.


I really believe that burton boots dont is for more flat top foots. The k2 thraxis is the best boot for wide fat feet. Screw the wide boots they all bs. Alot of boots is for skinny flat on the top part of foot


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## kelvinator (Mar 14, 2021)

tballs808 said:


> I really believe that burton boots dont is for more flat top foots. The k2 thraxis is the best boot for wide fat feet. Screw the wide boots they all bs. Alot of boots is for skinny flat on the top part of foot


Haha well IDK that I would go so far as to say that. I don't have fat feet. Pretty minimal fat in my feet and I am pretty sure my heel is fairly narrow.


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

tballs808 said:


> I really believe that burton boots dont is for more flat top foots. The k2 thraxis is the best boot for wide fat feet. Screw the wide boots they all bs. Alot of boots is for skinny flat on the top part of foot


Hi tballs,

Riding in boots that are 1.5 sizes too large causes many other issues, A very important one is an uncentered foot in terms of toe to heel placement on the board. We should really get a look at what is going on. Please post up images of your four barefoot measurements being taken. STOKED!


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

kelvinator said:


> I recognize the stats you are quoting are probably true based on what the manufacture is saying but I have a hard time believing that their numbers aren't bs or just off in some way. Maybe the Salomon wide boots are only width E but they were way looser than my EEE wide burtons. So either the manufacture stats are wrong or something else is going. IDK haha.


Hi Kelvin,
Please read our hundreds (thousands?) of fits here with the Dialogue Wide and Synapse Wide. They have not changed their fit on these models for this season. What you have written is complete departure from years of experience with these boots across the size range. That is not to discount your pair, but we also do not see much sample variation with either Burton or Salomon. As such I would suggest that you follow through with your communication with the mfg. because this is definitely outlier data.

STOKED!


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## kelvinator (Mar 14, 2021)

E.Schnee said:


> I can not recommend the photons. Unlike the burton rulers or the ions the photons are not acually wide but just come with a thinner liner to make room in the toe area. Also most brands (obviously with exceptions) make their boots for a certain foot shape and just change flex and lacing options. So in most cases if one boot doesn't fit your foot shape other models of the same brand won't fit either.
> 
> Maybe try on some Adidas Tacticals as well. Built quality is really nice and the toebox is roomy! The Lasso Pro seems a nice option as well. Give us some feedback on those if you choose these since there is not much info available on those.
> 
> The thing with most boots is that they lose their flex really quickly (especially burtons). So a stiffer boot will be a mid flexing boot after two weeks of proper riding. The good thing is they will stay mid stiff for a long time before they die. This is why it is way harder to find boots that are actually stiff after braking in. So don't stress on boots being a bit too stiff when first trying.


So I was not able to cancel my order. Interestingly the photon wides seem to be the same width when putting the bottoms of my burton ruler wides against the photons. But the photons feel a lot tighter. Could be the different between them being broken in and not broken in but still.

The Lasso Pro Wide don't seem like they are going to fit the bill either. They feel pretty comfortable overall and are easy to get on but I feel like I am going to struggle with heel lift as they feel quite loose in the heel area.

The TM2 wides are...well IDK. kind of a pain in the butt boot to get on. Feels weird overall even though it feels wide enough. Also feels like heel lift might be an issue as well.


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## E.Schnee (Jan 30, 2021)

kelvinator said:


> So I was not able to cancel my order. Interestingly the photon wides seem to be the same width when putting the bottoms of my burton ruler wides against the photons. But the photons feel a lot tighter. Could be the different between them being broken in and not broken in but still.
> 
> The Lasso Pro Wide don't seem like they are going to fit the bill either. They feel pretty comfortable overall and are easy to get on but I feel like I am going to struggle with heel lift as they feel quite loose in the heel area.
> 
> The TM2 wides are...well IDK. kind of a pain in the butt boot to get on. Feels weird overall even though it feels wide enough. Also feels like heel lift might be an issue as well.


Then I would try the Adidas Lexicon. I think those could solve your problem! Smallest size is mondo 26 and has great heel hold and above average flex. Even tho some people say they don't fit consistent through various sizes I would recommend them. My feet are similar dimensions and the Acerras in 26 fit really good!


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## kelvinator (Mar 14, 2021)

E.Schnee said:


> Then I would try the Adidas Lexicon. I think those could solve your problem! Smallest size is mondo 26 and has great heel hold and above average flex. Even tho some people say they don't fit consistent through various sizes I would recommend them. My feet are similar dimensions and the Acerras in 26 fit really good!


Yeah I actually got the tactical lexicon advs in yesterday and tried them on. They seem to have great heel hold and the toe box seems pretty solid for me. The only glaring issue is there are big pressure points right on top of my feet at the highest point. I was thinking of doing an at home heat mold and seeing if that does the trick but if not I am unsure if they would work out. I assume it is possible they could break in and the pressure point would go away but I am not entirely sure. The pressure point seems to be more from the liner/boot as opposed to them being tightened too much since the pressure point is there even when fully loose.


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## teknodude (Jan 2, 2017)

kelvinator said:


> I personally would be hesitant to try the Dialogues in wide in a 7.5 if you are already having issues with the size 7. Even though that is what Wiredsport is recommending. I have a EEE wide foot and the Dialogues in my proper size felt plenty for me and my feet would slip and hit the front bad enough to cause pretty bad toe jam. Not bad enough for noticeable bruising or my toenail to fall off but worse than my Burtons. Personally, I think that the boots might just not do a good job of locking your heel in. My feet felt really loose in those boots after like a couple days of trying them. Mine had the draw cord lacing system whereas the new ones appear to use boa so maybe it is a bit better but I wouldn't count on it.
> 
> I assume Wiredsport may disagree here but if you are a size E and regular is D then I feel like you could probably find a pair of boots that isn't a wide model that just run wide like the Adidas or just work with a local shop to find something. When I was working on boots with Evo they seemed like they could do a lot to the boot to modify it to make it work including stretching out the width.
> 
> FWIW, I previously tried a pair of Salomon Hiking shoes in a wide fit and my feet slipped in those as well and I got toe jam. I have however had good luck with their hiking boots in regular size being wide enough in the forefoot and thin enough in the heel.


Yeah I was thinking the same thing about the heel not being locked in. I've been paying more attention to heel movement, because I recently had a blister above the back of my heel. Everything feels snug in the morning, but I start getting slight heel movement in the afternoon. Once I start getting more aggressive with the turns, I can feel the rubbing on the back. Stopping and lacing the boots again seems to resolve the issue. Either I’m cranking the dual boa system wrong or they are loosening later in the day. I had lace loosening issues when I had the Salomon Synapse with the speed or draw cord lacing system. 

This past week I tried some heel inserts to elevate my heel a little. It actually worked well, because I can board the whole day without developing pain in the big toe. However I notice that my toe still feels the impact from hits to the front of my boot. My theory on the toe jamming issue is from pressed so much against the liner and shell that there is no cushioning. Our feet swell later in the day, so there’s not much room left with the size I’m wearing. While skating, somehow the edge of my board smacked the front of my boot and my big toe felt the impact. Good thing the impact was slightly below my toenail or it would have surely bruised. Also there were icy conditions this past week and I kicked the surface to see how hard it was and yeah my toe felt it.

I went to a boot fitting shop to get their opinion on my boots and sizing. They could try to get a ½ size stretch for $80, but it takes a few days and may not work. They measured my feet and agreed that my boot size was 25.5 cm and recommended the dialogue in 7.5 wide. That size wasn’t in stock, so we tried 8. I felt that it had too much room and would pack out. The stock for other brands was limited due to supply chain issues.


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## SkA (Jan 3, 2022)

E.Schnee said:


> Well I'm 90% sure... I got the 2021 model but there is a picture of the 2022 liner on burtons website. You can see the silver neoprene patch in the toe area. That's exactly the same as the 2021 version. Compare it to the ion or the ruler liner and you'll see what I mean.


Just a heads up. I purchased a pair of Burton Ion Wides (2022) model, directly from Burton EU 10 days ago, and the liner has the same silver patch. On both sides of the liner, mind you:








The material feels different there, compared to the rest of the liner. Less dense and softer to the touch. I'd go as far as saying I'm not sure there's much to heat mold / compact trough use there.


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## E.Schnee (Jan 30, 2021)

SkA said:


> Just a heads up. I purchased a pair of Burton Ion Wides (2022) model, directly from Burton EU 10 days ago, and the liner has the same silver patch. On both sides of the liner, mind you:
> View attachment 161164
> 
> 
> The material feels different there, compared to the rest of the liner. Less dense and softer to the touch. I'd go as far as saying I'm not sure there's much to heat mold / compact trough use there.


Do you fell the transition from the silver material to the foam while wearing?


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## SkA (Jan 3, 2022)

E.Schnee said:


> Do you fell the transition from the silver material to the foam while wearing?


If you're referring to being able to feel the seams or something overlapping, then no. Neither with my foot, or with my hand stuck in there. On the inner side it seems like it's made of one piece (covered with something, that is) and pressing on the seams from the outer side doesn't give any indication that it's seamed together.

I could see how it might be discomforting if your feet are pressed against the outer shell in the region of the silver patches, as it's thin as hell and doesn't really have cushioning as far as I'm concerned, but as far as my feet are concerned, it's more or less just the side of the toes that are reaching that silver patch. The region that marks the widest points of my feet, more in line with the beginning of the ball of my feet, is still inside the normal (black) foam part.


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## kelvinator (Mar 14, 2021)

teknodude said:


> Yeah I was thinking the same thing about the heel not being locked in. I've been paying more attention to heel movement, because I recently had a blister above the back of my heel. Everything feels snug in the morning, but I start getting slight heel movement in the afternoon. Once I start getting more aggressive with the turns, I can feel the rubbing on the back. Stopping and lacing the boots again seems to resolve the issue. Either I’m cranking the dual boa system wrong or they are loosening later in the day. I had lace loosening issues when I had the Salomon Synapse with the speed or draw cord lacing system.
> 
> This past week I tried some heel inserts to elevate my heel a little. It actually worked well, because I can board the whole day without developing pain in the big toe. However I notice that my toe still feels the impact from hits to the front of my boot. My theory on the toe jamming issue is from pressed so much against the liner and shell that there is no cushioning. Our feet swell later in the day, so there’s not much room left with the size I’m wearing. While skating, somehow the edge of my board smacked the front of my boot and my big toe felt the impact. Good thing the impact was slightly below my toenail or it would have surely bruised. Also there were icy conditions this past week and I kicked the surface to see how hard it was and yeah my toe felt it.
> 
> I went to a boot fitting shop to get their opinion on my boots and sizing. They could try to get a ½ size stretch for $80, but it takes a few days and may not work. They measured my feet and agreed that my boot size was 25.5 cm and recommended the dialogue in 7.5 wide. That size wasn’t in stock, so we tried 8. I felt that it had too much room and would pack out. The stock for other brands was limited due to supply chain issues.


Interesting! I may have to try some heel inserts to see if that helps.


----------

