# Heelside woes



## Jason (Feb 15, 2011)

Assuming your board is set up properly, make sure to keep your knees bent and stay dynamic.


----------



## larrytbull (Oct 30, 2013)

Beginner to beginner:

are you sure your bindings are centered, and if flow slyle, boots centered properly in bindings?

Also check forward lean, if there is not enough the heel side may not be as reactive


I am sure others may chime in, but those items help me


----------



## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

Both problems sound as if you're weight is not well distributed. For the first, I'd first try to put more weight n pressure on your front leg. 
For the second, put more weight on front leg toe edge side (the opposite of what you intuitively mabe would want to do ). The board tail will follow the front. It's like with a sliding car: countersteer if the rear breaks out.


----------



## ekb18c (Mar 11, 2013)

Sounds to me that you might have straight legs. Use some forward lean on your bindings and see if that helps. If you are getting chatter or feel like the board is hitting bumps on heel side turn, most likely you are not bending your knees enough and you are bending forward. 

When getting off the chair, don't fight anything. Just go straight and go with it.


----------



## Psi-Man (Aug 31, 2009)

Are you riding a new board profile this season? The cambered boards tracked nice and straight IMO. Going to CRC was definitely different getting off the lifts for me. Try putting a little more weight on your front foot.


----------



## f00bar (Mar 6, 2014)

By center you mean with the center line being lengthwise? What's the procedure for getting your natural center of gravity there? I just figured I'm an average dude and kinda in the middle of everything so aligned it using the middle of the three positions on the binding plate (Burton Customs).

First time out this year I did try widening the stance, found it uncomfortable so went back. 

I was doing better end of last year off the lifts and skating around. The only other variable I can think of is degrees. I have it at 15 now, I honestly don't remember what I did last year  Would more or less either way influence one way or another?

The other issue I may have is that for years and years my extra monitor at work has been on the right side of the desk. I've since moved it to the left, but looking over my left shoulder is still not as comfortable as it should. Could this be influencing things?


----------



## f00bar (Mar 6, 2014)

Psi-Man said:


> Are you riding a new board profile this season? The cambered boards tracked nice and straight IMO. Going to CRC was definitely different getting off the lifts for me. Try putting a little more weight on your front foot.


Still me Carbon Credit that I've had since day #2.


----------



## Donutz (May 12, 2010)

Had this exact problem. Short answer: you're doing it wrong.

Helpful answer: You're doing your heelside turns and toeside turns differently. If you really concentrate on your action during a turn, you'll find that on your toeside turn, you're going smoothly into the turn, smoothly and gradually shifting your weight to the back as you smoothly execute a nice arc.

On your heelside, you are starting the turn, then immediately going into a braking maneuver. No smooth arc, no smooth weighting transition.

Note: this was my problem. I'm assuming it's also yours, and it sure sounds like it.

The reason: fear. Toesides are easy. You feel safe. You're not staring down the yawning chasm of the hill. Heelsides, as soon as you turn, it feels like you're accelerating out of control face-first. You need to get over that, and you need to work on rounding out your heelside turn, and you need to work on slowing down the transitioning of your weight front to back.

The best way to do this is to go to an easy slope and concentrate on the mechanics. Pay close attention to what you're doing, and when you're doing it. Then gradually move to steeper slopes.


----------



## Brewtown (Feb 16, 2014)

f00bar said:


> By center you mean with the center line being lengthwise? What's the procedure for getting your natural center of gravity there? I just figured I'm an average dude and kinda in the middle of everything so aligned it using the middle of the three positions on the binding plate (Burton Customs).
> 
> First time out this year I did try widening the stance, found it uncomfortable so went back.
> 
> ...


You want your boot centered on the board with equal over hang on toe and heel edges. Strap your boot into the binding and flip the board over. If your boot hangs over on one side more than the other this could be your problem. 

Otherwise it's hard to say whether it's equipment or technique, but binding adjustments all come down to personal preference. As long as your centered on the board it shouldn't make a massive difference but everyone is different, play around with the different adjustments in small increments and see if you find anything that helps.


----------



## f00bar (Mar 6, 2014)

I think you're right with the fear element. Any sort of speed still scares the crap out of me  Which is kinda funny as on the planks I used to beer league race and did fairly well. I'm actually OK with it with a steep at the bottom that you need to use to get to the lifts and carrying speed for that, but on the slope I find myself constantly speed checking.

If the conditions are decent I may sign my son up for some lessons this weekend, he has some other demon habits that need to be broken. If I can get a 'private' with just the two of us maybe I'll do that.


----------



## ItchEtrigR (Jan 1, 2012)

FWIW heel side carves duck stance are a bitch. Pretty much the info Donutz shared. 

You need to get on edge and let your board take you through the arc instead of trying to turn and make you're board follow if that makes any sense. One small tip to get a sense on how it works is to get real low, exaggerated knee bend, and lean into your heel side but don't extend, with your knees fully bent you won't be able to twist your board. Your problem is your turning your board instead of using your edge to get the board to carve & turn on its own.


----------



## trapper (Jan 15, 2013)

Donutz said:


> Had this exact problem. Short answer: you're doing it wrong.
> 
> Helpful answer: You're doing your heelside turns and toeside turns differently. If you really concentrate on your action during a turn, you'll find that on your toeside turn, you're going smoothly into the turn, smoothly and gradually shifting your weight to the back as you smoothly execute a nice arc.
> 
> ...





ItchEtrigR said:


> FWIW heel side carves duck stance are a bitch. Pretty much the info Donutz shared.
> 
> You need to get on edge and let your board take you through the arc instead of trying to turn and make you're board follow if that makes any sense. One small tip to get a sense on how it works is to get real low, exaggerated knee bend, and lean into your heel side but don't extend, with your knees fully bent you won't be able to twist your board. Your problem is your turning your board instead of using your edge to get the board to carve & turn on its own.


Had similar problems on steeps not that long ago. I would be fine on toeside turns then heelside would pick up more speed than expected, start to chatter and sometimes just slide on my ass. A friend of mine watching from below pointed out that I was leaning away from my nose when I was getting the chatter even though I certainly didn't feel like it. I made a deliberate effort to lean downhill and be more committal on heelside turns on steep hills and try to be a bit more dynamic with my lower body and sure enough that fixed the problem.


----------



## stillz (Jan 5, 2010)

Reply hazy. Post video and ask again later. Here are some random possibilities.

Are your turns symmetrical? I see a lot of people who don't finish their toeside turns and then have to speed check every time they come back to the heels. Try to make a nice round turn shape and finish every turn.

Is your body position overly countered to face down the hill during your toeside turn? If your posture is always twisted to face down the hill, the heelside turn may come around too quickly and leave you sideslipping. Check the alignment of your shoulders and hips relative to the board.

How early in the turn do you engage the new edge? The earlier you can engage the new edge, the more of your turn shape you will have for speed control. Slight speed control throughout the entire turn is better than lot of speed control occurring in the bottom of the turn. Try to set the edge early by twisting the board and then shaping the entire turn.

Fore/aft movement. Be heavy on the front foot for crisp turn initiation, followed by a progressive movement aft as you go through the turn. Being a little aft in the bottom of the turn can be the difference between secure edge hold and washing out.

Try a little more forward lean on your highbacks?

Try concentrating on using your ankles actively. Think about closing the ankle joint so your toes contact the tops of your boots. This worked wonders for my heelside carves. Don't rely on your gear. Use your feet!


----------



## Mizu Kuma (Apr 13, 2014)

Sounds like counter rotation to me!!!!!

It's natural to want to face the direction you're goin, so you have to make yourself conscious of this when both gettin off the lift, and heelside transitions!!!!!

When gettin off the lift next time, pick a side farthest away from the direction everyone is headin on their dismount!!!!! Then, with shoulders aligned with your board nose/tail, and your back foot pressed up hard against your back binding with it completely centered!!!!! Do NOT hang your heel or toe over the edges more than one another!!!!! RELAX, flat awe, and go straight until you naturally slow down enough to feel comfortable to commence skating to your strap in point!!!!!

As per Donutz post, when it comes to heelside transitions, relax just like you're coming off the lift (just this time you're strapped in), but now you'll be weighting your heel edge in order to cut across the slope!!!!! Do this slowly and smoothly, and draw out your turns!!!!! If you feel as though you have gained a shit load of momentum then keep pressure on you heel edge till you eventually wash off that speed by heading up the slope, then transition back to your toes!!!!!

Most important to relax and keep your knees bent so they can absorb all the undulations in the snows surface!!!!!

Try singin a song in your head to keep yourself focused on what you're doing, and you'll find that you won't be so freaked out at the speed thing!!!!!

Hope all this gibberish makes sense?????


----------



## timmytard (Mar 19, 2009)

It's always the boards fault first.

Check to make sure everything is how it should be.

Your boots are centered?

Sometimes what you think is centered, isn't really centered.:eyetwitch2:
I rock size 9 booties. 
But I prefer wide boards.

In order for me to get the ride I like I have move my bindings towards the toe side of my board.

Most of the time a wide board will come with XL bindings on it, if the bindings aren't adjustable, I'll have to move it even closer than normal to take in account my boot being so far back in the binding. 

If I don't, I can't heel side carve, it just washes out from underneath me, like there's no edge at all.

Have you ever fucked with your forward lean?

That's another thing that can cause wash out, especially if your boots aren't really stiff. Your weak little ankles can't match the force.

Forward lean is a finicky one though, one click on the adjustment is usually enough, if you've already fucked with it before?

If it's still set up with none, you'll prolly need 2 maybe three clicks?

This is where you get the power to dig trenches.

When you find the correct spot on the forward lean, move it one more click forward.

That's the correct spot, your just not used to it yet. it doesn't tsake long to get used too, a run maybe two.

But when you get used to it, you'll feel the power.



TT


----------



## slyder (Jan 18, 2010)

This is odd as most ppl I know had harder time going toeside. Heelside you just sit down on the hill. 

Have you practiced "J-turns" go straight down hill flat based, initiate and do a *small* heelside turn, then go flat base again and pointing the nose of your board back down the hill. If you are riding correctly with weight centered or a little forward the heavy end of the board (front foot) will want to go down the hill first. Then proceed to repeat this maneuver, lots of small slow controlled heelside turns. Feeling you movement, using your "feet" not your upper body to make the turn. Try not stoping or skidding, you can slow yourself down a ton but keep moving and then really concentrate on getting flat based after the turn
Hope I explained correctly..I did this when learning switch worked well. Really concentrate on the form. Remember the board/feet turn the board not moving your upper body


----------



## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

Foobar…and others…Ur doing fine....typical beginner stuff. Part is mental...anxiety, perception and fear; part is technique and alignment and part is just learning to move your body, timing of the moving your body and being attentive to body parts in isolating the body parts and only moving them...and general body alignment relative to the board and the fall line...and stacking your body, i.e., ankles, hips and shoulder over the center line of the board.

*Getting off the lifts are killing me this year for some reason. The board just wants to rotate heel side leaving me to face plant and drive my arm into by ribs. I'm guessing it's just a weight distribution thing, but I'm not sure what I'm off on. Leaning back on the heel edge instead of over the center?*....
getting off the lift...rotating heel side....you are likely rotated open in the shoulders and hips...line up your shoulders and hips parallel with the board and the fall line of the little down ramp. Just rotate your head...not shoulders and look straight off into the distance and enjoy the gorgeous view...DO NOT look at the ground or even the ramp. Take a deep breath before standing up...and exhale as you stand up and glide off...helps to relax you mind. As for weight distrubtion...weight on the front foot...weight on the front foot is netural...neither toe or heel heavy. Back foot is light...or even put the back foot right up against the front foot/binding...And have your knees bent but relaxed....wtf relaxed knees?...how do you get relaxed knees...by tightening your quads...just isolate and tighten just the quads...they are your shock absorbers...they do the bouncing. Practice at home on the carpet...tighten the quads but leave your knees, calves and ankles loose...just bounce and jiggle...notice the quads do the work the rest of your lower leg is relaxed. Being able to do this all this will help further down the road when riding flats and flat basing...same thing as getting off the lift...but you are going further. i.e,. closed shoulders and hips, relaxed knees and weight on the front foot and back foot is light and just following....and head is up (not looking at the ground).

*I'm finding I am way more confident on my toe side turns. They seem to be nice and smooth, no chatter and my washing out seems pretty under control to where I'd expect to be.*

The reason is mostly mental...it is because you are facing uphill and the ground is precieved as being closer...thus falling forward is easy...less fear. Also turning toeside...is your natural everyday alignment with the world...facing forward. So as along as you are not rotated open and trying to twist around and look downhill...your shoulders and hips are generally more naturally aligned with the board and the direction of travel...i.e., transversing the hill/slope toeside....its all good. Also your weight is more centered fore/aft and thus better edge hold and not so much washing out/chatter.

*Problem is I'm finding my heel side transitions to be much more abrupt and rather than a nice smooth carve like transition through the turn it's pretty much start the turn, then bam, fighting the hill with the board chattering and ankles working overtime to keep a hold.*

Again starting at and because it is mostly mental. So on heelside and facing downhill...it is precieved as much futher to fall and you see the vast downhill slope...your mind goes "oh...fuck...shit...wtf"...your natural instinct is to re-coil and lean back...Waay back...you are basically sitting down too fast and taking the big shitter dump...you are just plopping the old ass right on the shitter. Also likely you have re-coiled and have the weight in the tail. What this does is put more pressure on the heel edge and the tail...more abruptly...thus you are not moving your weight on the heel side in a smooth matter of moving it from fore to aft. Its all of a sudden all the weight is heelside and tail heavy...thus not moving smoothly to centered...thus washing out and chattering. You are right "fighting the hill and the board...making the ankles work overtime.

So continuing on with the fear aspect...but from releasing the toeside edge, to weight the nose and timing...i.e., transitioning from toeside to heelside. Lots of folks have problems with this transition. Usually its about rushing the transition cause of fear of falling and out of control speed. So as you are going toeside and your toeside is locked in...to go heel side you have to release the toeside edge...but to the beginner that means...fuck that... I will fall heelside/backwards and wreck my head. And/but because now on toeside they are basically stopped or very slow speedwise...they don't have enough speed to release the toeside edge and let the nose naturally drop in to the fall line...you need a bit of speed to do this...the speed is to keep going in the direction of travel and let the board go flat…and keep moving to let the nose drop into the fall line….if you don’t have the speed you just fall over backwards…you need some speed/movement. 

And you also need the mental confidence to let this happen. When you have neither the speed or the confidence to do this …you freak out …rush the transition and sit on your shitter…Boom…fucking chatter and washing out. Soooo the remedy is…you got to have some speed…you release the nose toeside edge while also having to weight one the nose...by shifting your hips toward the nose... but its neutral nose weight (not toeside nor heelside weighted)….then wait for the nose to drop into the fall line…then when still nose heavy…you engage the heelside nose corner to then initiate the heelside turn/carve. So its not a rush thing…you got to let the nose drop into the fall line before you initiate the heelside. To the beginner …this seems like foooorevvver before even starting the turn…and its scary as shit to let the nose drop/point straight down the fall line….oooh fuck…I is just going to bomb/straight line the fucking hill...kill myself and other hapless inocents….but is mostly just the mental timing thing is fucked up. So this is where folks talking about “counting the turns or transitions”. One, release the toeside edge; two, weight the nose and let the nose drop into the fall line (it’s a long 2 count…lol); three, engage the nose heel side corner; four, start moving your heelside weight from fore…to middle…to aft…in a smooth matter….thus moving through the beginning, middle/apex and then on to the finishing end/tail of the heelside turn/carve…with your weight being on the tail heel corner…and then the same count for transitioning from heelside to toeside. Go to a nice mellow green…and practice having a little bit of speed and count through your transitions….keep doing it til it feels natural…then bump up the slope and speed….continue to do this. Then do the same thing but do drills of fast and slow count and vary the speed of travel…you want as an intermediate..to be able to smoothly do this…irregardless of being on a green, blue or black….its all the same steps but just faster or tighter or more shallow turns or deep turns.

Got it...is easy...its basic...and its just understanding the mental game.


----------



## tannersdad (Jan 9, 2013)

Lot of good info already but I will add that years ago a more advanced rider told me to bend my knees and keep my weight over the board more. I was kicking the board out in front of me but letting my weight stay back. The result was chatter and the board eventually sliding out from under me. Imagine squatting or sitting in a chair. 

Getting off the chair is 80% mental. LOL Tell yourself " I'm not going to fall, I'm not going to fall!

Hope this helps.


----------



## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

Beginners...another helpful visualization...concerning body alignment, stacking and moving. Think of your board as the bottom of a cereal box...you want to keep all of your body and body parts inside of the cereal box to efficiently work the board. Thus no bending at the waist, no flailing arms and no stinky butt. Start with the ankles...hips stacked over the ankles, hips stacked over the ankles and shoulders stacked/aligned over the ankles and hips. Also you hips/pelvis is rotated or tipped forward...like fucking/humping...to do this tighten the abs and squeeze the but cheeks...and a slight squat in the knees...this is the neutral and stacked alignment with hips and shoulders parallel with the center line down the middle of the board. All movement works from this neutral stance.

Also think of your leading knee as your steering wheel. For toeside turns/transitions drive/point your leading knee to the center of the turn. For heelside transitions/turns...swing your knee forward toward the nose.


----------



## speedjason (May 2, 2013)

I think I am gonna get used to dialing more high back this year.:embarrased1:


----------



## radiomuse210 (Sep 5, 2014)

Not sure if anything of this is what you are experiencing...but in the beginning I had a big problem with ruddering and kicking the tail of my board out instead of progressing and distributing my weight into the turn. I used to think my heelsides were decent but my toesides needed work. Now that I've got my toesides dialed in nicely, I've realized that my heelsides aren't as great as I thought. For me, that feeling of sitting in this chair when there is nothing actually there (and I can't see behind me) as I'm starting to face down this hill was something I needed to overcome. Making sure my weight was stacked over the board and my shoulders were parallel. Paying attention to my ankle and other more subtle movements. There are days that I spend most of my time on a green - not completely flat, I can pick up a little speed, but mellow enough that I can really focus on nailing down the movements and doing everything correctly. Then I'll take it up to a blue and test out how it's going with more speed. I've been really pleased with my progress so far this season doing this. I've been on the blacks a few times, but I start falling into bad habits and disappointing myself - I can get down them just fine, just not as smoothly as a blue or green.

I also messed with the forward lean of my highback and I felt that helped. I have some Burton Escapades on the way to replace my Burton Stilettos and I'm looking forward to in the increase in comfort/response. Found them on ebay for about $100 off and I couldn't say no.


----------



## f00bar (Mar 6, 2014)

Ok, just got back and after reading all the advice was WAY better today. For my heelside I really concentrated on where my weight was shifted. Got some nice linked transitions going. Confidence seems to be gaining as I'm finding it a lot easier not having to force myself forward as I pick up speed.

First time in a while a full day of no crash and burns off the lift. Again, concentrated on bending at the knees to make sure my weight was along the center line of the board. One or two arm flails, but no bruise inducing crashes!

But the big accomplishment was no more falling leaf for my son! Convinced him to give lessons another try and they paired him up with 2 other kids his age and skill. By the end nice linked turns, his confidence is WAY up which is the only reason he wasn't doing it.

As a bonus they got him doing flat spins which he thinks are just the bees knees now and board presses. Opened up a whole new world for him where before he was just happy getting down. Now it's all these other possibilities for him.

Shame the coming rain is gonna trash xmas week. Sigh...


----------



## radiomuse210 (Sep 5, 2014)

f00bar said:


> Ok, just got back and after reading all the advice was WAY better today. For my heelside I really concentrated on where my weight was shifted. Got some nice linked transitions going. Confidence seems to be gaining as I'm finding it a lot easier not having to force myself forward as I pick up speed.
> 
> First time in a while a full day of no crash and burns off the lift. Again, concentrated on bending at the knees to make sure my weight was along the center line of the board. One or two arm flails, but no bruise inducing crashes!
> 
> ...



:jumping1:

Good to hear that the both of you experienced some progress! 

I had the best run I've ever had today. So smooth, linked transitions were flawless, getting up on that edge and getting a nice carve in the snow...it was great!


----------



## f00bar (Mar 6, 2014)

Ya, it was a great day. Conditions were 'eh' though. They are about 50% open right now and can only make onto 50% at a time. With xmas coming they are trying desperately to get to 100% open so have been concentrating on those. Over the last week they've only had the last 2 nights to blow so what is open now was starting to get pretty played out by mid afternoon. Last few runs he wanted to move back to the bunny which was still in good shape so he could practice his spins and presses.

Am so depressed with the 5 day. It's going to kill them for xmas week.


----------



## slyder (Jan 18, 2010)

It sounds like you got a quality instructor for your son. One that knows how to teach, make it fun and inspire. Great post ! Glad to hear it has 'clicked' for the both of you. It makes it so much more fun. 

Weather...they barely get today right, don't sweat the 5 - 10 day outlook. You can't change it so roll with what it is when you wake up. If it's rideable, make it happen, if not watch videos of riding


----------



## CassMT (Mar 14, 2013)

it's technique, not equipmnet , stance, etc

most likely you are just extending your body through the turn and bein all stiff, so you chatter. relax, get loose an compress some into the turn. set the edge and use it


----------



## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

Sounds like you are well on your way to shredin with your son for a lifetime....way to go Dad. But you got just a short time before he will be blastin past and waiting for your slowness to get to the chair.


----------



## timmytard (Mar 19, 2009)

f00bar said:


> Ya, it was a great day. Conditions were 'eh' though. They are about 50% open right now and can only make onto 50% at a time. With xmas coming they are trying desperately to get to 100% open so have been concentrating on those. Over the last week they've only had the last 2 nights to blow so what is open now was starting to get pretty played out by mid afternoon. Last few runs he wanted to move back to the bunny which was still in good shape so he could practice his spins and presses.
> 
> Am so depressed with the 5 day. It's going to kill them for xmas week.


They sell little practice rail/jib/bonk curbs, or somethin' like that.

Basically it's a plastic hollow 4x4 with rounded edges so you don't break your arm in your living room.
Although, you know that's had to have had happened a whole bunch of times.

You can pretty much use anythin.

I bet one of those plastic flower pots would work, 4x4 by 2,3 & 4 foot sections.

Explain to him, that whatever you can do on this little thing right here in the house, you will be able to do them on snow.

Everything is way more fun, when you're good at it
He will be a superstar by this time next year.


TT


----------



## tannersdad (Jan 9, 2013)

radiomuse210 said:


> :jumping1:
> 
> Good to hear that the both of you experienced some progress!
> 
> I had the best run I've ever had today. So smooth, linked transitions were flawless, getting up on that edge and getting a nice carve in the snow...it was great!



Just curious were you rode yesterday? My 18 yr and I made the 3 hr drive to Wintergreen yesterday. Conditions were not bad, I hated that the Tyro slope was closed. But all in all it was a great day for my second trip of the year. I met some nice folks from Richmond on the lift.


----------



## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

CassMT said:


> it's technique, not equipmnet , stance, etc
> 
> most likely you are just extending your body through the turn and bein all stiff, so you chatter. relax, *get loose an compress some into the turn*. set the edge and use it


CassMT brings up a good point...you also need or can start going up and down...moving your weight or center of gravity in a vertical manner... in the turns...compress=bending primarily in the knees, abit at the waist...but with back straight. A drill is to just cruise and then stand as tall as you can without locking your knees and then crouch=compress as low as you can. Like rest your elbows on you knees. Basically your center of gravity (cog) is slightly below and behind your belly button and you want that spot to be mid-line vertical above the mid-line of the board as you move up and down.

At the start of the transitions...either toe or heel. You are basically in the back seat/weight on the tail. So as you shift your weight toward the nose to make it drop into the fall line...you are also rising up...then once you have transitioned to the new edge and moving your weight to the middle...you are also crouching=compressing. Basically you are doing "cross over turns" meaning you are moving your weight back and forth over the edges of the board...(verses "cross under" turns...don't worry about cross unders...you are not there yet). Anyway learning to rise and compress will give you lightness on the rise and power/edge hold on the compression....which will lead you to powerful carves, digging trenches, feeling the "g's" and popping from edge to edge.

btw ... all of this is called dynamic riding or movement....you got to move...not be stiff...but loose, jiggliy but also move in a percise and smooth manner...but not stiff.


----------



## bkrieger (Oct 26, 2011)

wrathfuldeity said:


> Foobar…and others…Ur doing fine....typical beginner stuff. Part is mental...anxiety, perception and fear; part is technique and alignment and part is just learning to move your body, timing of the moving your body and being attentive to body parts in isolating the body parts and only moving them...and general body alignment relative to the board and the fall line...and stacking your body, i.e., ankles, hips and shoulder over the center line of the board.
> 
> *Getting off the lifts are killing me this year for some reason. The board just wants to rotate heel side leaving me to face plant and drive my arm into by ribs. I'm guessing it's just a weight distribution thing, but I'm not sure what I'm off on. Leaning back on the heel edge instead of over the center?*....
> getting off the lift...rotating heel side....you are likely rotated open in the shoulders and hips...line up your shoulders and hips parallel with the board and the fall line of the little down ramp. Just rotate your head...not shoulders and look straight off into the distance and enjoy the gorgeous view...DO NOT look at the ground or even the ramp. Take a deep breath before standing up...and exhale as you stand up and glide off...helps to relax you mind. As for weight distrubtion...weight on the front foot...weight on the front foot is netural...neither toe or heel heavy. Back foot is light...or even put the back foot right up against the front foot/binding...And have your knees bent but relaxed....wtf relaxed knees?...how do you get relaxed knees...by tightening your quads...just isolate and tighten just the quads...they are your shock absorbers...they do the bouncing. Practice at home on the carpet...tighten the quads but leave your knees, calves and ankles loose...just bounce and jiggle...notice the quads do the work the rest of your lower leg is relaxed. Being able to do this all this will help further down the road when riding flats and flat basing...same thing as getting off the lift...but you are going further. i.e,. closed shoulders and hips, relaxed knees and weight on the front foot and back foot is light and just following....and head is up (not looking at the ground).
> ...


I'm a little confused by your analysis when you say to count transitions/turns, while shifting weight from the front foot/nose of the board, to middle of board, and then shifting weight to the tail of the board.
I thought you are always supposed to keep weight on the front foot? Do you keep knees bent through the whole turn, or do you bend knees at the beginning of the turn, and gradually stand up straight as you make the turn?


----------



## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

bkrieger said:


> I'm a little confused by your analysis when you say to count transitions/turns, while shifting weight from the front foot/nose of the board, to middle of board, and then shifting weight to the tail of the board.
> I thought you are always supposed to keep weight on the front foot? Do you keep knees bent through the whole turn, or do you bend knees at the beginning of the turn, and gradually stand up straight as you make the turn?


counting turns...start with a slow count and as you get better speed up the count. There are 2 types of bending your knees...first type of leading knee bend is to initiate the turn. second type is both knees bent to have the angulation to dig in the edge during the apex/middle of the turn.

1 release the engaged nose edge and wait for the nose to drop into the fall line, 
2 initiation of the turn, weight on the nose and moving to the edge to be engaged (toeside or heelside)
3 middle or apex of the turn, weight is in the middle, and knees/hips/angles angulated to dig the edge in...to rail it
4 finishing the turn, tail edge is still engaged and your weight is moving from the tail toward the nose and you are extending your legs to power out of the turn

we are also talking about 2 types of turns....linking turns...which I'd imagine you might be working on....and railing carves...two completely different things


----------



## bkrieger (Oct 26, 2011)

Yes, linking turns is what I'm trying to do. 
So basically what you are saying is, at the beginning of the turn, right before weighting the front foot edge, weight is on the front foot, and as the turn takes shape, weight gradual shifts to the middle, until finally, as the back foot engages the edge, weight is on the back foot/tail of the board?

At the end of the turn, when unweighting the front foot, does the back foot stay engaged in the edge until the nose drops back down the fall line?


----------



## radiomuse210 (Sep 5, 2014)

wrathfuldeity said:


> counting turns...start with a slow count and as you get better speed up the count. There are 2 types of bending your knees...first type of leading knee bend is to initiate the turn. second type is both knees bent to have the angulation to dig in the edge during the apex/middle of the turn.
> 
> 1 release the engaged nose edge and wait for the nose to drop into the fall line,
> 2 initiation of the turn, weight on the nose and moving to the edge to be engaged (toeside or heelside)
> ...



This is all great stuff wrath. I found myself getting into a nice flow over the weekend where I wasn't so much thinking through each step but just doing it...the muscle memory kicking in. At first it can be tough to translate words into action. I have a nice flow on my heelside...I initiate with the front foot, my weight shifts to center, then ends on the back foot. It's like the board is flowing beneath me. Then I drop to the fall line and initiate the toe side. That's where I have more trouble feeling that flow and where my weight is on the board. I also need to focus on keeping my body in the correct position - back straight, pushing those knees in, leaning my weight on the edge. When I'm standing still, I can push the toe edge in nicely, my form is great, the heel edge lifts up behind me. When I'm moving I'm having trouble pushing my hips forward/driving my knees down as much as I need to. I can get a much higher angle on my heel edge than toe edge. More practice needed haha...I do like the flow I'm feeling though. Of my weight shifting from front/middle/back as well as back and forth from edge to edge. Then I get on the lift and check out my tracks and it's satisfying to see that nice line in the snow. Still working so that it looks like that every time! So to everyone contributing to this thread - it's all great stuff, thanks for lending your knowledge and experience!


----------



## StAntonRider (Dec 15, 2014)

Just to everyone btw this problem exactly is the whole idea behind the asym tech. 

However I don't seem to find a difference


----------



## ashwinearl (Jan 19, 2010)

This article helped my heelsides
Finish off your toeside turns and ride like a God. | McNab Snowboarding :: Snowboard Guiding :: Splitboard Guiding :: Backcountry Snowboarding :: Chamonix


----------



## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

This really does not talk abt transitions and phases of turns...but it may help folks get some basics of moving on the board. Anyway wish someone would have shown me how to move when first beginning. Disclaimer...self-taught geezer.


----------



## ashwinearl (Jan 19, 2010)

wrathfuldeity said:


> This really does not talk abt transitions and phases of turns...but it may help folks get some basics of moving on the board. Anyway wish someone would have shown me how to move when first beginning. Disclaimer...self-taught geezer.


Wrathful,

Thanks so much for this video. This is the best instruction I've seen on basic stance and turn initiation movement. The visual cues provided by the tape were great. 

The reminder about pelvic tilt was helpful too. I find that one of the hardest to work on because I emphasize hip hinging for my other activities (lifting, mountain biking). 

Anyway, thanks again, it was very very helpful.


----------



## Jcb890 (Dec 12, 2014)

ashwinearl said:


> Wrathful,
> 
> Thanks so much for this video. This is the best instruction I've seen on basic stance and turn initiation movement. The visual cues provided by the tape were great.
> 
> ...


I made a very similar post in another thread, but will offer up kudos in this one too. Even as someone who has been riding for a long time, it is a great reminder to "stay in the box" and keep your hips/butt over your board. And like ashwinearl said, the tape is a great visual aid. My wife is just learning this season and I am going to have her watch the video later.


----------

