# Why don't pro snowboarders ever wear helmets in movies?



## LyGuy

I don't think I've ever seen one pro snowboarder wear a helmet before in any of the snowboarding movies, be it big mountain or jibbing.

Sure, they're pros so less likely to injure themselves but also means they're always in the most dangerous situations.

Why don't they like to hear helmets for their movies?


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## WasatchMan

XDLR does from time to time. 

But maybe they just find them uncomfortable and irritating?


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## ll IrOn CiTy ll

I have wondered the same thing since I started riding..Its not just Pro riders,I think its Snowboarders in general.Although where I ride doesnt have the elevation that you would associate with risk we do have a Huge park section and some decently steep short hills..Its really the only place of its kind around so there is a alot of young decent riders just pushing it in the park as well as people bombing icy groomers that are literally bulletproof.And I would say its like 1 out of every 5 snowboarders wear a helmet.I think its ridiculous.Im sure that has alot to do with my age..I never wore a helmet skating growing up so I guess I understand but there is just sooo much speed involved with snowboarding..Only took me one snowboarding concussion to figure I wanted a helmet..Im just lucky it was only a concussion :laugh:


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## Paddy12

t rice wears one from time to time when its sketchy stuff or something he hasnt ridden before. he wore one in art of flight for some runs. i also feel that the big mountain guys usually land in deep pow. but ive never ridden anything resembling movie quality conditions so i cant comment from experience.


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## KIRKRIDER

LyGuy said:


> I don't think I've ever seen one pro snowboarder wear a helmet before in any of the snowboarding movies, be it big mountain or jibbing.
> 
> Sure, they're pros so less likely to injure themselves but also means they're always in the most dangerous situations.
> 
> Why don't they like to hear helmets for their movies?


I have no idea really. Doesn't look smart to me frankly. I can't image a pro athlete risking his/her life and career to wear a beanie.


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## linvillegorge

The big mountain guys like De La Rue and Jeremy Jones often do.


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## Ryan_T

Pros need to make it look easy. 

It's hard to give that impression when you're wearing full body armour and mainstream protection. Their beanies are made of some Batman tech out of Kevlar and nano-quantum responsive impact absorbent kinetic gels.


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## grafta

WasatchMan said:


> But maybe they just find them uncomfortable and irritating?


I don't really see that as something of concern, most helmets are warm and comfortable and don't come off like a toque/beenie if you biff :dunno:

I wish I didn't have to/need to wear a helmet, but the trade off isn't worth it IMO

It is weird that there hasn't been a push for helmet wearing in shred vids (maybe there has and i never got the memo) :laugh:


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## Ttam

I wear a helmet cause I dont want brain damage.. Pros.. I know some local pros that wear helmets when they are doing stuff theyve never done. Movies though.. It doesnt look good if a top level pro is wearing a helmet is what im guessing.


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## Kwanzaa

I see skiers wearing helmets all the time in movies. They don't look any less "pro" than snowboarders. It probably has something to do with the ideology of snowboarding being badass's or something.


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## Cr0_Reps_Smit

i personally only wear a helmet if im doing a competition, when im riding on my own or filming i dont tend to wear one. im more worried about breaking bones/hurting my knees then i am hitting my head really. i also think it looks a little better while filming, like the one guy said it makes it look like its easy.


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## tekuboarder

I know that tj schneider wears a helmet in his video parts. Jed Anderson wears sort of a helmet. In his video part from shoot the moon he has some sort of hard shell on his head, not sure if it would really protect his head if he crashed.


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## oskar

Helmets take the pressure from the google strap of your head,that is all.


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## PeaceMaker

> People tend to obsess over the helmet when in reality, more serious injuries and deaths are the result of trauma to internal organs from a bad crash. Broken rib puncturing the lung or heart being a major one.


That's why people should wear an efficient dorsal protection. I have one personally.

I'm not afraid of hurting my knees or my arms because it sounds like minor injuries, whereas head injuries, broken ribs or spinal injuries may kill you or let you paralyzed.

I love snowboarding but it isn't worth dying for this, especially when the technology brings you the means to protect you efficiently.


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## Cr0_Reps_Smit

PeaceMaker said:


> That's why people should wear an efficient dorsal protection. I have one personally.
> 
> I'm not afraid of hurting my knees or my arms because it sounds like minor injuries, whereas head injuries, broken ribs or spinal injuries may kill you or let you paralyzed.
> 
> I love snowboarding but it isn't worth dying for this, especially when the technology brings you the means to protect you efficiently.


your knees are, in my opinion, the most important thing you use while snowboarding. you blow out your knee and youre not going to be riding for awhile. plus its gonna make a lot of other things in your daily life a bit more difficult.


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## ll IrOn CiTy ll

oskar said:


> Helmets take the pressure from the google strap of your head,that is all.


Thats one of the dumbest things I think Ive read on this forum.. and thats saying alot...You can hurt yourself 100x different ways riding..Although 100% protection is virtually impossible and would get in the way of riding and what not..Its not that difficult to ride with a helmet vs without one..and yea a helmet wont protect against broken ribs or punctured lungs..but looking cool def wont help you not get a concussion.


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## hikeswithdogs

ll IrOn CiTy ll said:


> Thats one of the dumbest things I think Ive read on this forum.. and thats saying alot...You can hurt yourself 100x different ways riding..Although 100% protection is virtually impossible and would get in the way of riding and what not..Its not that difficult to ride with a helmet vs without one..and yea a helmet wont protect against broken ribs or punctured lungs..but looking cool def wont help you not get a concussion.


Sorry but I agree , it's nice not having a strap squeezing your melon all day long...love wearing my helmet(with full music+phone integration) no idea why more people don't wear them.


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## Sick-Pow

Head trauma is the new cool. 

fucking retards...oh wait, that is what they will be, retarded after taking about 10 major falls to the head.


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## Cr0_Reps_Smit

Sick-Pow said:


> Head trauma is the new cool.
> 
> fucking retards...oh wait, that is what they will be, retarded after taking about 10 major falls to the head.


so i'm a retard because id rather not wear a helmet most of the time?


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## Leo

None of us actually know if these pros wear protection underneath their outerwear though. Some backpacks offer built-in spinal protection. Hell, a regular backpack with stuff in it helps too.

As for T.Rice, notice the only time he wears a helmet in AOF is when he has the GoPro on.


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## SnowRock

Somewhat relevant to this discussion, just saw this in today's Wall Street Journal


WSJ said:


> Where Snowboard Injuries Are
> 
> An analysis of snowboarding accidents published in the American Journal of Sports Medicine found significant differences in the location and severity of head injuries in beginners compared with experienced snowboarders.
> 
> Experienced snowboarders were more likely to have frontal-region injuries.
> 
> The study used data on 2,367 snowboarders, including 959 beginners and 1,408 experienced intermediates or experts, injured in northern Japan from 1999 to 2008. The average age was 24.
> 
> Falls accounted for 71% of beginner injuries. Among experienced snowboarders, falls and collisions accounted for 44% and 32%, respectively. Both groups suffered injuries most often in the occipital region at the back of the head. Experienced snowboarders were more likely to have frontal-region injuries.
> 
> Researchers said experienced snowboarders had more collisions with trees and other snowboarders and skiers. They also had more facial bone and head fractures than beginners.
> 
> *Less than 2% of the beginners and 9% of the experienced snowboarders wore helmets. But this had little effect on severe intracranial injuries, which affected 3% of helmeted snowboarders and 2% of those without helmets. Helmets lead to more risk-taking and may not provide effective head protection, the report said.*
> 
> Caveat: Beginner and experienced snowboarders weren't clearly defined.


What I think is interesting is in bold.. basically, if you are going to really f up your head, the helmet isn't going to save you. I do think for more minor falls/accidents they do their job well, but they have their limits.

I bought a helmet last year (first year back on the snow in 5), and wear it most of the time. Its comfortable and warm and I see no reason not to... though yesterday for some reason I didn't throw it on.


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## GreatScott

I ride with a helmet to protect me from cracking my skull on jibs, trees and noobs. Thinking that a helmet is going to keep your brain from smashing up into the front of your skull is dumb. A helmet is not going to save you from a concussion.


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## Leo

I'd also like to see complimentary statistics on how educated those with helmeted injuries were on the proper usage and limitations of said helmets.

Also, it's talking about severe head injuries. 

Furthermore, it states that less than 2% of beginners wore helmets and less than 9, again, 9% of *EXPERIENCED* riders wore them. The statistic itself said that experienced riders had more head injuries. Significantly more experienced riders wore helmets than beginners. So of course, you're going to see more severe helmeted injuries when most of the helmeted riders were experienced who obviously take more risks. By the way, do the math on that. 8% of 1408 vs 1% of 959. Huge difference. We're talking around 113 experienced riders wearing helmets in this sample vs around 10 beginners wearing them.

This is why statistics can be very misleading. You have to think about the numbers critically. This study is inconclusive and the author should be ashamed of himself.


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## onefutui2e

i actually got a concussion last year (had to be woken up by ski patrol on the trail), and a lot of friends say how i was so fortunate that i wore my helmet. but i always wondered, if i didn't have it on, would i have done what i did to put me in a situation that led to the concussion? i mean, studies have definitely shown that additional safety measures are correlated with riskier behaviors that at least partially offset them. one of life's catch-22s.

i still wear my helmet because even if the safety is offset, the additional risk-taking helps me progress. plus, i bought a higher-end helmet that weights next to nothing and is very warm on my head.


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## CheeseForSteeze

I think I've hit my head twice in my snowboarding "history", once with and once without. Both times felt equally painful but left me with less than even a grade I concussion. However, I've hurt my shoulders, ribs, hips, shins, forearms more times than I can count. Even on rails, I've never even come close to hitting my head, it's always something else that hits.

The pros probably just don't wear it out of habit. Helmets aren't considerably irritating, uncomfortable, expensive, heavy or whatever else, so I have to imagine this is out of habit. Seb Toots wore a helmet in his part in Black Winter, I have to wonder if someone required him to wear one or if he just chooses to.


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## Leo

onefutui2e said:


> i actually got a concussion last year (had to be woken up by ski patrol on the trail), and a lot of friends say how i was so fortunate that i wore my helmet. but i always wondered, if i didn't have it on, would i have done what i did to put me in a situation that led to the concussion? i mean, studies have definitely shown that additional safety measures are correlated with riskier behaviors that at least partially offset them. one of life's catch-22s.
> 
> i still wear my helmet because even if the safety is offset, the additional risk-taking helps me progress. plus, i bought a higher-end helmet that weights next to nothing and is very warm on my head.


No study has done such thing. It's a hypothesis and practically impossible to determine. I debunked the statistic that was shown above. Most statistics in articles are like this.

While I think it's very possible for someone to take more risks thinking they are safe-guarded, I think that's a rare occurrence given that the person was properly educated on the limitations of protection.


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## SnowRock

I'm confused.. what exactly are you debunking? ...here is the abstract which has some of additional stats, but not all of those referenced in the write-up. Differences in Clinical Characteristics of Head Injuries to Snowboarders by Skill Level

What I said I found interesting was that many of the "anti-helmet" crowd argue that helmets (as a reuslt of their tech limitations) do little to actually protect you when you are going to experience one of those severe injuries and this study seems to bear that out no? Basically this argument:

The Problem with Snowsports Helmets - The Backcountry Skiing Blog

Now I see no downside to wearing one so I choose to.. knowing full well that its not a magic shroud.


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## PeaceMaker

Cr0_Reps_Smit said:


> your knees are, in my opinion, the most important thing you use while snowboarding. you blow out your knee and youre not going to be riding for awhile. plus its gonna make a lot of other things in your daily life a bit more difficult.


Of course. You're right saying that. But you can't deny that head/spinal injuries are less serious injuries than broken knees. I prefer having a daily life more difficult because of broken knees that no life at all... or being paralyzed for all my life.

But you made a point all of you guys in saying that the most important is to wear protection but without taking more considerable risks, which definitely offsets the protection.

So... Keep it SAFE and Enjoy the Ride !!


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## grafta

SnowRock said:


> The Problem with Snowsports Helmets - The Backcountry Skiing Blog


:thumbsup: That's a good read :thumbsup:


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## Leo

SnowRock said:


> I'm confused.. what exactly are you debunking? ...here is the abstract which has some of additional stats, but not all of those referenced in the write-up. Differences in Clinical Characteristics of Head Injuries to Snowboarders by Skill Level
> 
> What I said I found interesting was that many of the "anti-helmet" crowd argue that helmets (as a reuslt of their tech limitations) do little to actually protect you when you are going to experience one of those severe injuries and this study seems to bear that out no? Basically this argument:
> 
> The Problem with Snowsports Helmets - The Backcountry Skiing Blog
> 
> Now I see no downside to wearing one so I choose to.. knowing full well that its not a magic shroud.


You know what? I messed up my logic with the math. Sorry, I retract the math aspect of it.

My other points are still valid. There is more that needs to be known about this study in order to jump to that conclusion. Educated on helmet limitations vs uneducated makes a difference. A more clear picture needs to be painted about the skill levels and type of riding that is being done here.


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## onefutui2e

Leo said:


> No study has done such thing. It's a hypothesis and practically impossible to determine. I debunked the statistic that was shown above. Most statistics in articles are like this.
> 
> While I think it's very possible for someone to take more risks thinking they are safe-guarded, I think that's a rare occurrence given that the person was properly educated on the limitations of protection.


i don't think they did anything specifically for snowboarders, but i know there have been, for example, studies done on cars with ABS systems and they found a correlation between cars that have them (before they were required) and a higher probability of them getting into an accident. there was also another study that showed that drivers on average drove closer to bicyclists with helmets on. i don't know the metrics they used in the car study in particular, but it's also important to note that if it's a correlation, any number of other extraneous factors could be contributing to this (i.e. since ABS is new technology, drivers who use them are more likely to be younger, etc.). 

if you want, i can try to dig up the studies, but you'd be making me do homework. but if you just want a fun read, they call it the Peltzman Effect. it's kind of the same reason why we're in a financial mess right now too.

edit: one of many reasons why we're in a financial mess right now haha.


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## Sick-Pow

Cr0_Reps_Smit said:


> so i'm a retard because id rather not wear a helmet most of the time?


It is not your choice, it is the result of your choice that will retard your brain. Concussions are cumulative, meaning the injures pile up in your brain, and cause *major *b*rain function issues l*ater in life. Check out former Olympic boxers for studies.

For slow speed falls, helmets will help protect your brain from concussions, fact. 

High speed falls, helmets will help with puncture wounds to the head that would normally cause instant or certain death.

There is no logical argument for NOT wearing a helmet. Personal preference is selfish in this debate, duh!

edit, I also feel it is irresponsible for people to make comparisons to Travis Rice, or any other pro's helmet usage. Absolutely fucking retarded and maybe people should quit banging their head?


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## fattrav




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## basso4735

Helmets keep my ears warm. :thumbsup:


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## parttimepro48

On the topic of feeling safer while riding with a helmet on, I have to say i do take more risks with a helmet on because in my head it seems like a fail safe. Apart from snowboarding i also play highschool football and i totally rely on my helmet to keep me safe. I would never to most of the things i do in football, outside football without when i dont have my helmet. Moving on, i have said to myself when i was first starting you wont get hurt you got a helmet on which might of been fine for begginer stuff, now as i advance maybe i should think about taking off the helmet.
Sorry i ramble or dont make scense


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## Snowfox

Completely ignoring what is going on around me, I think one of the reasons pro snowboarders don't wear helmets in movies is that it helps market them better. You can actually see their faces and it gives them an image to project (which can then be sold). 

Personally, I don't think that saying people take more risks with helmets is a legitimate reason not to wear a helmet. It's obvious that we just need more education then. Go at the same rate, but with a helmet.


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## the REASON

no helmet no care. #NHNC


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## Sick-Pow

Snowolf said:


> As in every helmet thread, I ask the same question. What is it to you ( the helmet police ) whether someone else wears a helmet? This topic comes up as much as the stupid Shawn White threads and it's always the same broken record. Everyone fully understands the protection that a helmet offers so there is no need to preach endlessly on and on about why EVERYBODY should wear a helmet. It's really not their business what choices a another rider makes that does not impact them so shut up already about; people are sick of hearing it. Some of the helmet police are worse than Jehovas Wittness with their proselytizing.
> 
> Then we have the full blown " Helmet Nazi" who, when their preaching proves ineffectual will try to enact laws requiring all the "infidels" to wear them. These people need to be rounded up, loaded onto a 747 and flown to Iran on a one way ticket!
> 
> I rarely wear a helmet and as a 46 year old adult this should be my choice to make freely without being fucking harassed by the butt inski do gooders of the world. Preach to me about a helmet and I will tell you to your face to "fuck off and mind your own business". I just don't understand the need to preach about it. It's almost like some of these people feel insecure about wearing a helmet and are working way too hard for validation. They need an E Cookie I guess.
> 
> One caveat that I will say is that for kids who are too young to make informed decisions, then sure I have no problem with that. If society feels a kid is not experienced enough in their decision making process to legally drive, vote or drink, then it is reasonable to conclude there is an age at which they are not experienced enough to make this decision either.



You are a professional, and your opinion does not count in this matter . Of course I am not serious, but the point remains.....

It is not normal to be a professional snowboarder. But it is normal to have intermediates get out of control and fall in bad places either going too fast, or repeatedly at slow speeds, on ice-like conditions? Right? Setting an example, even in words is more important IMO, rather than "fight for the right", in this case.

I think age, like you mentioned is paramount in lawmaking, but facts are facts, and I think not being "pro helmet" , end of story, would be irresponsible otherwise.


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## TorpedoVegas

Pros not wearing helmets in movies is like porn stars not wearing condoms on film....I think they are just worried that it's not what the audience wants to see


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## Leo

Snowolf said:


> As in every helmet thread, I ask the same question. What is it to you ( the helmet police ) whether someone else wears a helmet? This topic comes up as much as the stupid Shawn White threads and it's always the same broken record. Everyone fully understands the protection that a helmet offers so there is no need to preach endlessly on and on about why EVERYBODY should wear a helmet. It's really not their business what choices a another rider makes that does not impact them so shut up already about; people are sick of hearing it. Some of the helmet police are worse than Jehovas Wittness with their proselytizing.
> 
> Then we have the full blown " Helmet Nazi" who, when their preaching proves ineffectual will try to enact laws requiring all the "infidels" to wear them. These people need to be rounded up, loaded onto a 747 and flown to Iran on a one way ticket!
> 
> I rarely wear a helmet and as a 46 year old adult this should be my choice to make freely without being fucking harassed by the butt inski do gooders of the world. Preach to me about a helmet and I will tell you to your face to "fuck off and mind your own business". I just don't understand the need to preach about it. It's almost like some of these people feel insecure about wearing a helmet and are working way too hard for validation. They need an E Cookie I guess.
> 
> One caveat that I will say is that for kids who are too young to make informed decisions, then sure I have no problem with that. If society feels a kid is not experienced enough in their decision making process to legally drive, vote or drink, then it is reasonable to conclude there is an age at which they are not experienced enough to make this decision either.


Shut up and wear a fucking helmet old man! 凸(¬‿¬)凸


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## Engage_mike

Took me one good edge catch and bouncing my head on the ice to realize a helmet was a great idea...I rented one and ended up catching my edge again this time on a black diamond run and experienced what I believe was a minor concussion as I wasn't seeing straight for 10-15 seconds...thank G*D for the helmet....plus...I also love that when I fall with a helmet my goggles don't go flying...a very helpful perk!


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## EC99SS

Engage_mike said:


> ....plus...I also love that when I fall with a helmet my goggles don't go flying...a very helpful perk!



Haha...the helmet also serves as an anti yard sale device.


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## Ryan_T

EC99SS said:


> Haha...the helmet also serves as an anti yard sale device.


I use that as a measure of how magnificent the wipe-out was. Can't do that with a helmet. :laugh:


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## MarshallV82

I wear mine most the time, It makes me feel cozy
Should be up to the person though... I think the seatbelt 
Law is ridiculous.. We don't need more of that.


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## BigmountainVMD

SnowRock said:


> Somewhat relevant to this discussion, just saw this in today's Wall Street Journal
> 
> What I think is interesting is in bold.. basically, if you are going to really f up your head, the helmet isn't going to save you. I do think for more minor falls/accidents they do their job well, but they have their limits.
> 
> I bought a helmet last year (first year back on the snow in 5), and wear it most of the time. Its comfortable and warm and I see no reason not to... though yesterday for some reason I didn't throw it on.


This is quite interesting, but I see a flaw in that this study was likely performed at a hospital... so people who were there, were already injured. There is no control, as in how many snowboarders with helmets had a bad fall but didn't need medical attention vs. snowboarders without helmets that took bad falls and didn't need medical attention. 

Oh science... I love you so...


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## BigmountainVMD

Snowolf:

I agree it should be their own decision. But the lines get murky when we talk about the cost to other taxpayers when doctors in the ER are trying to save the life of someone without insurance, and no money for medical bills.

Just out of curiosity, how do you think people wearing helmets compares to seat belt laws (which were put into law to help save the taxpayer from paying for the medical bills of a vegetable who flew through their windshield in an accident...)

Thats the same reason they have biker helmet laws in some states...

Does anything differentiate snowboarding without a helmet from riding a motorcycle without a helmet or driving without a seatbelt?


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## SnowRock

BigmountainVMD said:


> This is quite interesting, but I see a flaw in that this study was likely performed at a hospital... so people who were there, were already injured. There is no control, as in how many snowboarders with helmets had a bad fall but didn't need medical attention vs. snowboarders without helmets that took bad falls and didn't need medical attention.
> 
> Oh science... I love you so...


Not really a flaw per se... it is a descriptive epidemiology study, so the focus is on identifying and reporting patterns related to or frequency of an event, in this case, head injuries requiring treatment. 

So while yes, this study was based on review of patients treated at a hospital, not all studies can/will/need control groups. These types of studies also can be used before you conduct an analytical study testing a specific hypothesis


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## FlipJ

Got me wearing one.


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## efarley0129

One fall on hitting a simple pop off a tiny kicker at an east coast mountain made me change my mind. You got a whole life, or some life(whatever age you are) to continue to shred and do other amazing things. why waste it on a Mountain in a situation you could have altered?


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## ThunderChunky

After reading this, gotta say. I really never did trust helmet companies. Guess the only reason to wear one would be to avoid some pain. 

The Problem with Snowsports Helmets - The Backcountry Skiing Blog


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## Leo

ThunderChunky said:


> After reading this, gotta say. I really never did trust helmet companies. Guess the only reason to wear one would be to avoid some pain.
> 
> The Problem with Snowsports Helmets - The Backcountry Skiing Blog


This article is pretty much the same type of evangelism the author accuses helmet supporters of. The very fact that he calls them evangelists shows he has an obvious bias. If I call someone a fanboy, that obviously means I am not a fan of said behavior.

What matters is, helmets do offer more protection than not wearing one at all. Some, even the tiniest bit, protection is better than none.

What this study also doesn't take into account is that, and this is my speculation based on my own experience and seeing others fall, when a person falls, some part of their body usually hits first. Whether it be your ass or your hands (forearm if you can help it) reaching behind you, it slows down the speed of your head before making impact.

If you're doing very high-speed/flying maneuvers, expect lots of damage regardless of helmet use. It's a risk you take when riding in that manner.

I'm pro helmet, but it's your decision. I will recommend it and even talk about the benefits. But I won't push it on you.


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## Leo

MarshallV82 said:


> I wear mine most the time, It makes me feel cozy
> Should be up to the person though... I think the seatbelt
> Law is ridiculous.. We don't need more of that.


No, the seatbelt law isn't ridiculous. You actually pose a risk to others when you don't wear your seatbelt. If you don't wear a helmet, you only affect yourself.

If a passenger in your car wears a seatbelt, but you don't and you get into a bad wreck... you become a missile. All it takes is for your free flying body to head slam the belted passenger to take them out when they might have survived otherwise.

Even if you are alone, you pose a risk. Your body could be thrown from the vehicle into traffic. Now you are a road hazard. This is all very possible and has happened.

Not wearing a helmet does none of this so you cannot equate seatbelt laws with helmet laws. In fact, this argument can be used to refute the need for helmet laws.


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## killclimbz

Lou Dawson is not just any author. Dude has been around the block. First person to ski all of Colorado's Fourteeners is one of the many feathers in his cap.

I've also said that direct blunt force trauma impacts, a helmet is not going to do much. Run into a tree at 30mph, you're not going to get much protection from the helmet. If your cruising around at 40mph, lose it on some ice and slam your head on the surface, you are going to get much much better protection than without one. Same thing if you lose it in say a bunch of rocks hidden under the snow. The latter situation is the main reason I rock one in the backcountry. A buddy just had a bad crash in rocks last week. Cracked his helmet. Also broke his thumb and probably did his knee, but there is no doubt that his injuries would be much more serious without the helmet. Maybe life threatening. Sometimes you just choose wrong. The protection and mileage you'll get out of a helmet depend on the type of impact it takes.


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## Leo

killclimbz said:


> Lou Dawson is not just any author. Dude has been around the block. First person to ski all of Colorado's Fourteeners is one of the many feathers in his cap.


No disrespect, but a person's experience and credentials don't anything to do with bias. Maybe he's biased because of said experience.

I'm just saying, if you use terms like "evangelism" in reference to the pro-helmet crowd (the more outspoken), it proves you have a bias. Just like if you call someone a helmet nazi, you have a bias against them.

And yea, I agree wholeheartedly that helmets aren't going to protect you all the time. The only argument is that it offers more protection than none. In high risk riding, expect the helmet to do virtually nothing. 

It's all about helmet education. When my son rides, I'm not going to just slap a helmet on his head and let that be the end of it. I'm going to educate him on the reality of the limitations of said helmet so that he realizes that it's not a foolproof protection.


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## killclimbz

I do think Lou's argument is flawed. There are tons of different impacts out there and he is just using one to base his whole argument over. I still have mad respect for the guy. He does have a point about helmets, but he misses the point too.


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## Leo

killclimbz said:


> I do think Lou's argument is flawed. There are tons of different impacts out there and he is just using one to base his whole argument over. I still have mad respect for the guy. He does have a point about helmets, but he misses the point too.


Yea, that's what I meant. His bias tainted an otherwise potentially great point. It's the delivery that failed.

Just like I admitted in my first Union binding review here that I was bitter because of all the Union fans. I tainted an otherwise valid critique of their bindings.


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## photohunts

Sarah Burke (RIP) wore a helmet. A helmet is not a guarantee, but mitigates some risks. Stay safe and have fun.


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## killclimbz

Sarah Burke also did not die of a traumatic brain injury as it turns out. It was the artery that was severed in the fall that did her in. She was dead before she got to the hospital unfortunately.


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## Smokehaus




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## john doe

ThunderChunky said:


> After reading this, gotta say. I really never did trust helmet companies. Guess the only reason to wear one would be to avoid some pain.
> 
> The Problem with Snowsports Helmets - The Backcountry Skiing Blog


Why is this guy arguing that helmets don't work when the article he sights says they do.



> When the impact was onto simulated hard, icy snow, the helmet reduced the average measured g-load from 329 to 162, and the HIC value from 2,235 to 965. When the impact was against the fixed object, the helmet reduced the values from 696 to 333, and the HIC from 12,185 to 3,299.


That's a pretty big drop in G loads to the head and could save you from a lot of impacts. It shows an impact that goes from the certain death range to the concussion range.


----------



## budderbear

ll IrOn CiTy ll said:


> I have wondered the same thing since I started riding..Its not just Pro riders,I think its Snowboarders in general.Although where I ride doesnt have the elevation that you would associate with risk we do have a Huge park section and some decently steep short hills..Its really the only place of its kind around so there is a alot of young decent riders just pushing it in the park as well as people bombing icy groomers that are literally bulletproof.And I would say its like 1 out of every 5 snowboarders wear a helmet.I think its ridiculous.Im sure that has alot to do with my age..I never wore a helmet skating growing up so I guess I understand but there is just sooo much speed involved with snowboarding..Only took me one snowboarding concussion to figure I wanted a helmet..Im just lucky it was only a concussion :laugh:


Snowboarders in general? That's pretty narrow minded to make an assumption of a group of people because of the way a few present themselves. Seems to me you don't just wear a helmet on the mountain...


----------



## SchultzLS2

ThunderChunky said:


> After reading this, gotta say. I really never did trust helmet companies. Guess the only reason to wear one would be to avoid some pain.
> 
> The Problem with Snowsports Helmets - The Backcountry Skiing Blog


I don't really understand your statement. If you ask me, this study COMPLETELY tells you to wear a helmet. Did you see the non-helmet stats at the end?

Ok...now don't forget...

Pain - 95g's
Concussion - 150g's
Serious/Death - 275's

Helmet to wooden post - 333g's - Just over the serious/death threshold, so you MIGHT have a chance.
Helmet to icy groomer - 162g's - Your in pain and have a possibly mild concussion.

Now lets look at the figures at the end of the article with NO HELMET

No Helmet to wooden post - 696g's - Probably certain death.
No Helmet to icy groomer - 329g's - Serious/Death, again...chances over 275g's are slim.

Sooooo....I'm not sure why the article was named "The Problem with Snowsports Helmets"


----------



## AIRider

I wear one religiously. Don't care too much what others do. It's warmer than a toque, keeps my earbuds in place, and my head and hair doesn't get wet in rain/snow …


----------



## Snowfox

SchultzLS2 said:


> I don't really understand your statement. If you ask me, this study COMPLETELY tells you to wear a helmet. Did you see the non-helmet stats at the end?
> 
> Ok...now don't forget...
> 
> Pain - 95g's
> Concussion - 150g's
> Serious/Death - 275's
> 
> Helmet to wooden post - 333g's - Just over the serious/death threshold, so you MIGHT have a chance.
> Helmet to icy groomer - 162g's - Your in pain and have a possibly mild concussion.
> 
> Now lets look at the figures at the end of the article with NO HELMET
> 
> No Helmet to wooden post - 696g's - Probably certain death.
> No Helmet to icy groomer - 329g's - Serious/Death, again...chances over 275g's are slim.
> 
> Sooooo....I'm not sure why the article was named "The Problem with Snowsports Helmets"


The study was done at 18.6 mph, a speed that any of us could attain easily. So if we all went 20mph or below, helmets would be amazing...

The idea of the article is that most of us go (significantly) above that speed and the impact begins to increase dramatically (sounds like everytime you double the speed, you quadruple the impact force). Much beyond 18.6 mph and it sounds like helmets can't do all that much to protect your head in the case of a direct impact. The article's main point (as Snowolf pointed out) is that helmets give a false sense of security and that while they provide "some" protection, they aren't perfect. 

My main problem with the article is it doesn't seem to consider "indirect" (example: you hit a shoulder first, use your arm, etc.) impacts that could significantly decrease the impact before the helmet comes into play. At the same time, it still does make its point with the examples provided. 

My personal opinion (not that anyone asked... ) is that everyone should wear them, but no one should be forced to wear them.


----------



## eddiethebus

Snowolf said:


> As in every helmet thread, I ask the same question. What is it to you ( the helmet police ) whether someone else wears a helmet? This topic comes up as much as the stupid Shawn White threads and it's always the same broken record. Everyone fully understands the protection that a helmet offers so there is no need to preach endlessly on and on about why EVERYBODY should wear a helmet. It's really not their business what choices a another rider makes that does not impact them so shut up already about; people are sick of hearing it. Some of the helmet police are worse than Jehovas Wittness with their proselytizing.
> 
> Then we have the full blown " Helmet Nazi" who, when their preaching proves ineffectual will try to enact laws requiring all the "infidels" to wear them. These people need to be rounded up, loaded onto a 747 and flown to Iran on a one way ticket!
> 
> I rarely wear a helmet and as a 46 year old adult this should be my choice to make freely without being fucking harassed by the butt inski do gooders of the world. Preach to me about a helmet and I will tell you to your face to "fuck off and mind your own business". I just don't understand the need to preach about it. It's almost like some of these people feel insecure about wearing a helmet and are working way too hard for validation. They need an E Cookie I guess.
> 
> One caveat that I will say is that for kids who are too young to make informed decisions, then sure I have no problem with that. If society feels a kid is not experienced enough in their decision making process to legally drive, vote or drink, then it is reasonable to conclude there is an age at which they are not experienced enough to make this decision either.


You do of course have the option to not read the thread if it going to annoy you so much 

Comparing people who preach about helmets to people that executed thousands of people is probably a bit harsh as well


----------



## nickwarrenn

I never knew there was so much debate about wearing helmets. Here in NS you're already forced to wear one in the park, pipe, and boardercross, we all just slap em on and wear them religiously. Plus the new NS law making everyone wear them.

I think it looks a lot cooler with helmets than without. Wearing a toque and goggles doesn't look "even" and makes your head look like a wide shallow cylinder rather than throwing a helmet on top of that which makes it look like a head again.

Just my opinion though, this is a pretty hostile thread.


----------



## eddiethebus

Snowolf said:


> I don`t actually have the option to not read threads...
> 
> Exactly how am I "annoyed"? I think I have been pretty clear about about my support for helmet use, but point out the facts that these are not the magic talisman many think they are. In fact, I was pointing out that the individual I was addressing (which was NOT you by the way) sounded angry because of Thunder`s sarcasm. I think you doth protest too much and it sounds to me like you are the one "annoyed" by my "non compliance" to your obvious but unspoken bias based on the fact that you simply "reacted to a post not the discussion...:dunno:
> 
> 
> 
> Well, about 6 million to be exact so you might want to study history....:dunno:
> 
> Are you really so obtuse as to not understand the internet forum colloquialism regarding the term "Nazi" which is frequently used to describe someone who is overly anal retentive about something? Example: "grammer Nazi" to describe "that guy" who is always correcting a poster`s spelling and grammar.
> 
> I will say it again for the third time....
> 
> I am not calling those who preach about helmet use "helmet Nazis", I refer to those who attempt to enact laws and regulations forcing others to comply with their agenda "helmet Nazis" because they are in fact acting in a Fascist manner about something that has not impact on them personally.
> 
> Got it now?


bit tetchy:laugh:


----------



## Leo

Snowolf said:


> I think you may have totally missed the context. I clearly stated the difference between the helmet advocate and the helmet Nazi. I can be opposed to the Nazi without being biased against the advocate and I am not. I am unbiased about the realities of helmet usage and have always said as much. In fact I always encourage helmet use when asked. What I object to is the Nazi like behavior of using the law to force one's advocacy upon others.
> 
> Do not assume that my vocal opposition to the Nazi equates to opposition of helmet use.


I'm talking in the context of doing reviews (like my Union one) and articles like the one that was referenced here that Kill and I were discussing. It shows a bias when you use these terms in reviews/articles.


----------



## dreampow

Here we go again, its like groundhog day.

I agree that we shouldn't be forced to wear helmets. Its a personal choice. 

Going in the park and hitting big kickers is clearly putting yourself at more risk too, lets ban it:dunno:.

Where you ride and how you ride in relation to your skill level is more important than anything else IMO.

Its all personal choice.

Your choices and decisions of where and how to ride will always be the best safety. 

If people want to wear helmets let them. If I don't leave me be.


----------



## eddiethebus

Snowolf said:


> The hostility is actually borne from people who advocate laws forcing people to their agenda. Americans have a very natural aversion to the "nanny state" and Fascist regulations being crammed down our throats. If there is any doubt about the cultural difference between our countries in this regard, just look at the gun control issue....


Slightly off topic, but...

I always though that the US was king when it came to gun totin, but the last couple of years living in france has shown me things that i doubt you'd ever see in the US (and all totally legal!)

During october/november in hunting season its not unusual to see blokes lying under trees in public parks shooting things There was an article in the local newspaper about "accidental" shootings, joggers, cyclists, people walking dogs (and the dogs) have all been shot, but the local marie (sort of like the local mayor) puts it down to bad luck an no charges are ever bought

basically you dont got walking at night


----------



## Leo

Helmets should be forced. All of you non helmet users put me in danger because I get incredibly distracted when I see you on the mountains. All I can think of when I see you A-holes is, "Why the FUCK isn't that douche wearing a helmet?".

Make it a law so it's safer for me


----------



## Memphis Hawk

I wear a helme so that the next time I'm on a lift a 9.0 Earthquake doesn't snap the cable or lurch me out of my seat causing massive brain trauma. Things to consider when you live in Japan. Now I ski in a radiological biohazard suit so I don't get Fukushima'd, unfortunately helmets weren't considered as part of the design so now I refrain from doing inverted tricks off the 100' kicker.


----------



## JoeyScholl

It's called REAL ADVENTURE...


----------



## SchultzLS2

Snowolf said:


> You sound angry bro! No one is telling you not to wear a helmet and actually I took his comment as sarcastic really. The reason for the title and the real "problem" with helmets is far too many people develop a false sense of security when wearing them. They are ignorant of the limitations and often are in denial when faced with facts that undermine their preconceived idea that a helmet is some kind of magic talisman that will protect them.
> 
> I have seen this phenomenon time and again over the course of teaching for 7 years. I see people who are rough beginners start out riding sensibly. They buy a helmet and suddenly I see them attempting shit they have no ability to pull off in conditions an expert knows better to try. They often end up severely injuring themselves and to be 100% honest, I see more concussions from people who were wearing a helmet.
> 
> Yes, wear a helmet. It protects you very well from surface injury and offers some MINIMAL protection from concussion but understand their limitations and don't suddenly ride like an idiot thinking you are protected. Helmet or not at 25 MPH if you hit anything hard enough to make that sudden stop, your brain IS going to slam against your skull and you will be concussed.


hahahaha Not angry at all. I agree it may give some a false sense of security. Not me though, because I'm about 100x more worried about my limbs than my head.



Snowfox said:


> The study was done at 18.6 mph, a speed that any of us could attain easily. So if we all went 20mph or below, helmets would be amazing...
> 
> The idea of the article is that most of us go (significantly) above that speed and the impact begins to increase dramatically (sounds like everytime you double the speed, you quadruple the impact force). Much beyond 18.6 mph and it sounds like helmets can't do all that much to protect your head in the case of a direct impact. The article's main point (as Snowolf pointed out) is that helmets give a false sense of security and that while they provide "some" protection, they aren't perfect.
> 
> My main problem with the article is it doesn't seem to consider "indirect" (example: you hit a shoulder first, use your arm, etc.) impacts that could significantly decrease the impact before the helmet comes into play. At the same time, it still does make its point with the examples provided.
> 
> My personal opinion (not that anyone asked... ) is that everyone should wear them, but no one should be forced to wear them.


I agree people should, especially those hitting the park. Hell, just 2 weeks ago I was just riding over a box on my way to a kicker, and it was a little icier than expected, my board slid out from under me, and flew off box onto my back and whacked my head on the box. I was sure happy I had my helmet on. Probably wouldn't have been serious, but woulda hurt. Turned a dangerous situation into a minor annoyance.


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## Argo

I'd rather break all my limbs at the same time than have a head injury.... And I have a broken leg right now....


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## Cr0_Reps_Smit

Argo said:


> I'd rather break all my limbs at the same time than have a head injury.... And I have a broken leg right now....



really? cause if i had the choice between a concussion and breaking every bone in my body i think id take the concussion.


----------



## Argo

Cr0_Reps_Smit said:


> really? cause if i had the choice between a concussion and breaking every bone in my body i think id take the concussion.


You going extreme on the "limbs" that I stated being every bone in your body... Your being ginger on the "concussion" related to head injury..... Your bones heal, I'll take broken bones any day over a true head injury, you never fully recover from a true head injury.


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## nickwarrenn

I'm joining pro-helmet forcing side. It's not like wearing a helmet could do you any harm, it'll help a bit. It's just stupid not to wear one. Plus what I said earlier about non-helmet wearers at my hill all look like tryhard tools and retards who just started snowboarding and wear jeans rolled up above their rental boots hunched over because they don't think they need a lesson.


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## Redmond513

Everyone has the ability to make their own decisions. If you want to wear a helmet, go ahead. If not, then don't. I personally will never board without one.


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## dreampow

Forcing? 

Thats BS:thumbsdown:.

So you are saying pros who don't wear helmets look like tryhards and retards:dunno:?

I've said it before and I will again. How you ride is the the most important thing and there are plenty of morons riding dangerously with helmets on (and without).

Here in Japan I would say maybe 5% or less (boarders) wear helmets. Most of the tourists who come from Oz and the US do wear them.

Yet its the foreigners wearing helmets who ride the most dangerously and go into areas where they should not based on their abilities. They repeatedly get into accidents and problems which are rare between Japanese riders. Japanese riders rarely wear helmets, but in general they know how to ride according to their abilities. Really bad injuries and fatalities from on piste collisions are almost unheard of here yet there are seemingly not uncommon in the US.

Its people who imagine they are way better than they are going through trees on steeps or bombing crowded runs that cause the most problems IMO.

I bought a helmet, but I won't be wearing it for most of my powder riding and I should have that choice. I just prefer riding without. I felt it limited my peripheral awareness somehow. Not saying thats scientific, but I feel more aware of my surroundings without it. I can hear better for sure without it.

Anyway that should be my choice. I believe in free choice when that choice doesn't directly affect others.

If you are going to force helmets next it will be body armor. Then get rid of the pipe and park. Then ban the double blacks. Make a 15mph speed limit. These are all degrees of policing what should be free choice.


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## IdahoFreshies

nickwarrenn said:


> I'm joining pro-helmet forcing side. It's not like wearing a helmet could do you any harm, it'll help a bit. It's just stupid not to wear one. Plus what I said earlier about non-helmet wearers at my hill all look like tryhard tools and retards who just started snowboarding and wear jeans rolled up above their rental boots hunched over because they don't think they need a lesson.


that has got to be one of the more ignorant posts in this thread. You want a higher power to force me, and tell me what protective gear I have to use. No. If it's not effecting you dont worry about it. There are a few aspects about wearing helmets that i just dont like, so i dont wear one often.



nickwarrenn said:


> Plus what I said earlier about non-helmet wearers at my hill all look like tryhard tools and retards who just started snowboarding and wear jeans rolled up above their rental boots hunched over because they don't think they need a lesson.


this though...thats just your own ignorant narrow minded opinion. Everyone who does not wear a helmet is a try hard tool who has their jeans above their knees and who dont think they need a lesson...i take a bit of offense to that because i am the exact opposite, and for you to label everyone like that who is not *just like you* wearing a helmet is just plain stupid. After 5 1/2 years of riding through trees, steeps, pow, and hucking myself off every rock and natural jump i could find i have never once hit my head. Yes i know accidents happen and it does not matter how good of a rider you are, you can still get hurt. But by now i am confident in my own abilities that i am not worried about slamming my head on anything.


/rant over


----------



## Efilnikufesin

Hate helmets myself, but I wear one (after a while of not doing so.) Just takes one nice hit to drop your IQ by half of what it was originally.


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## digZ

I think not wearing a helmet is pretty stupid, especially for park riders, most of which don't wear helmets. Maybe not so much if you're powder riding above the treeline, but there's still a chance of hitting rocks if you're on double blacks, and wearing a helmet will most certainly mitigate brain damage there. I can understand people talking about their peripheral vision and awareness being affected. I don't agree with it, but it's up to them to choose whether or not they want to protect their brain. People not wearing helmets doesn't affect me in the slightest, so why should there be mandatory rules when it doesn't hurt anyone(other than the rider not wearing a helmet) themselves to not wear them? My helmet has saved me from a couple of mild(maybe serious) concussions from park riding, and hitting icy slopes. Instead I only had a terrible headache for the rest of the night, but it could have been much worse.

That being said I'll never go riding without wearing my helmet, that doesn't mean I should force others to do the same just because I think I know better than they do.


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## SatanRidesAlone

On days that I feel like killing my self I don't wear a helmet. That way if I kill myself I will die doing what I love.


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## dreampow

I think telling other adults that not wearing a helmet is stupid, is STUPID:cheeky4:.


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## honeycomb

I'm with Snowolf on this one, it's all kinds of wrong to force people to do/wear something that doesn't affect anyone but themselves...you know the nazi's had pieces of flair they made the jews wear...

I've been boarding for 10 years(26 now, not THAT old yet) and have NEVER hit my head on anything. I mostly do jumps, 3's, 180's, tweaked grabs, boxes and rails, nothing crazy unless the landings are real soft. I started wearing a helmet this year, mostly because I got tired of my headphones falling off, I love the speakers in the ear pads  It gives me a bit more confidence riding, I ride hard but I'm not crazy and I ride within my limits...most of the time.

If you honestly believe the garbage you type then your opinion no longer counts and I'll probably block your user name so I don't have to read any more of it.


----------



## IdahoFreshies

Snowolf said:


> So, what do you do in your spare time, throw Jews into ovens? You goose stepping Fascist! Why can't people like you learn to just mind your own fucking business? You are exactly what I am talking about when I use the term "Helmet Nazi". You are not satisfied with merely advocating helmet use. When people choose not to do as you advocate, you resort to throwing insults at anyone who chooses to not wear a helmet and then support Fascist regulations to force compliance to YOUR will.
> 
> All I can say is fuck you and your opinion. There are many of us non helmet wearers who can outride your lame poser ass drunk and with our eyes closed on REAL terrain; not that lame ass shit you call "hills". Come to Alaska son and try to follow me where I go and we will all see who the "tryhard retard is"
> 
> Figures you're a fucking Frenchie.....


Lol way to flame there and go off on him. Not sure if that was tounge in cheek as you call it but that seemed a bit harsh commin from the admin staff.


----------



## digZ

Snowolf said:


> So here we go again; someone makes a choice that differs from your opinion and you feel compelled resort to insults and call them "stupid"?
> 
> Your assumptions about helmet use are based on fantasy and wishful thinking. Every study conducted all points to the fact that after the rider exceeds 20 MPH a head impact is going to result in death or brain damage whether wearing the helmet or not.
> 
> Yes, the helmet offers some protection from surface injury and that is why I do wear one when jibbing or riding fast on ice. It is also why many back country riders like Killclimbz wear them because of the danger of striking a rock with the head in a fall. People who actually understand helmets know that they offer minimal protection from a concussion.
> 
> Many people, myself included have actually found that we hit our heads a lot more with the helmet than without. Every high speed fall and edge catch I have ever taken without a helmet, I have never hit my head. I can always tuck my chin to my chest and take it on my back and shoulders. Even a "face plant" I roll into it with the shoulder.
> 
> Anytime I take a hard fall with the helmet on, my head ALWAYS whiplashes hard onto the snow. After being mildly concussed because of the fucking thing I threw it in my locker and quit wearing it. Why wear something that causes the very thing it is designed to protect me against? I feel that the extra weight combined with the larger profile tends to actually cause people to slam their head more. So many people make the claim that," I never hit my head before I started wearing a helmet, but I took a hard slam today and had I not been wearing my helmet, I would have gotten a concussion for sure"
> 
> What this person fails to realize is that no they most likely would not have gotten a concussion because the reality is that the helmet does very little to stop the brain from slamming into the skull from the sudden stop. If they didn't get a concussion wearing it, the odds are very high that they wouldn't have gotten one without it. Most importantly though, this person fails to see the correlation between years of riding without a helmet and never hitting their head with riding a week with a helmet and bang! Head slam. Did it ever occurr to this person that maybe the reason they hit their head in the first place is because of the damn helmet and the unnatural weight and size?
> 
> Seriously, how did we become such pussies anyway? Those of us in our 30's and 40's remember the shit we did as kids. BB gun fights, throwing dirt clods, jumping off of the roof, crashing our BMX bikes, rolling down big hills inside old truck tires, skateboarding and skiing all without helmets. Yeah every now and again we would slip off of the monkey bars and split our heads open but a few stitches and we were back at it. Today, I drive by school playgrounds and see kids practically in bubble wrap and wearing helmets just so they can play on swings, slides and monkey bars or ride their bikes. It's really fucking pathetic and no wonder so many kids grow up to be neurotic freaks!


And as I said to each his own. FYI, when I was a kid I never wore a helmet skateboarding or riding trails with my BMX bike, and looking back on it now I find it a pretty stupid decision. The older generations have a tendency to always look down on their counterparts talking about how much better or harder things were in there day, I guess that's human nature. Actually a study referenced in this thread earlier quoted figures that show that helmets actually do quite a bit to reduce head injuries, and in many instances can reduce a deadly head injury to a concussion, and a concussion to just minor pain(For example a crash at 20MPH on icy snow can reduce the force on your brain about half, preventing an almost certain concussion). Now there are certain cases where you're dead no matter what, like wrapping around a tree at high speeds for instance, and I know helmets don't cure that. But saying they barely do anything I find to be pretty silly. I don't find my helmet to be much heavier than just wearing a beanie, sure it adds a bit of bulk, but I'm able to keep my head up on most falls, and it's not like I'm wearing a lead brick. As I said earlier, to each his own. I find it stupid not to wear a helmet, maybe that's just because I've worn a helmet more often than not. I see why people may feel them constricting or uncomfortable, I just can't empathize with that viewpoint because I'm so used to it, it's like wearing a coat or goggles to me. I've hit my head maybe 2-3 times with my helmet(that I would count as a decently hard fall, that I actually got shaken up by). Any other time I've been able to keep my head up just fine, or have fallen in a way that I didn't need my helmet. My first couple years of riding without a helmet I never really hit my head, but since getting my helmet I haven't really looked back. You feel it causes people to overstretch their boundaries, I feel that people do that even without helmets. For every inexperienced person I see bombing the mountain with a helmet, I see many more without helmets doing the same thing. I'm not trying to force my viewpoint on anybody, I'm just stating how I feel about it. People can choose what they want to do, even if I disagree with them. I don't see how at any point in my post I was being a neurotic freak by stating my opinion on helmets.

I guess we can agree to disagree on whether or not helmets cause more injuries than they stop, as it would be hard to quantify whether or not helmets cause more ground-to-head contact than not wearing a helmet, but I'll continue wearing mine.


----------



## fattrav

What ever, you're all helmet and non-helmet wearing dicks...


----------



## nickwarrenn

It may be different in other places, but in Canada with our healthcare system it just makes sense for everyone to wear a helmet. My tax dollars are paying for your treatments, and more or them could be put to better uses if people wore their helmet. If they want to act tough and cool by not taking any realistic preventative measures, then they should have to pay for their doctors, treatments, and utilities for the hospital.

May be different down South, but I'm glad their making the helmet law in NS.

EDIT: Sorry for coming off like an ignorant SoB in my last post, it was "late" lastnight.


----------



## nickwarrenn

I'm also anti-smoking, even more than pro-helmets. I just don't see any logic at all in not wearing a helmet. Even if you can take a fall, you fall because you aren't perfect and onetime your fall might not be perfect. To me at least, it seems ridiculous in a sport where you slide down a slope going very fast to not take realistic precautions. I also wear impact shorts, and even though they're a bit uncomfortable, they've saved my ass more than once. (pun)

Nothing against you Snowolf, I think you're a great guy from reading your posts.


----------



## dreampow

Seems there is 50cm of pow already and much more on the way in the next few days. I will be up at 5am and on my way to Nagano.
Next 3 days sees me boarding without my helmet. 

Stick that in your pipe and smoke it:cheeky4:.


----------



## nickwarrenn

Aha, yeah; guess you're right. I even find my helmet a bit of an assurance when hitting big stuff, even if it physically won't help as much as I'd like, psychologically it's amazing. Anyway, I gotta go to class, I'll be back in a few hours to reply. Good lil discussion though.


----------



## Cr0_Reps_Smit

Argo said:


> You going extreme on the "limbs" that I stated being every bone in your body... Your being ginger on the "concussion" related to head injury..... Your bones heal, I'll take broken bones any day over a true head injury, you never fully recover from a true head injury.


yea i kinda read limbs as all the important bones in my body and i thought you were a little broad with "head injuries".


----------



## eelpout

All I know is, it took one bounce of the noggin off of Squaw ice pre-helmet to make me a regular wearer now.

Found an interesting article regarding Sarah Burke and the current state of safety equipment that may (or may not) add something to the discussion. (There is an odd comment thrown in there about wrist guards being basically useless, which I wish they had backed up with any data.)


----------



## eelpout

snowboarddsngr said:


> hey guys,
> 
> I'm doing some research I'm trying to gather some information about Pro-Tec helmets
> ...


The only way to know how they fit your head is to try them on. Useful comment, eh? 

That said, I recently switched from a Giro to a Pro-Tec Riot for no other reason than it was 60% off at evo.com. I like it because it has a little lip at the front for a bit of sun visor action. It's as warm and comfortable as the Giro 9 was. It's _not_ the best for goggles off the face though and them staying on the helmet; the strap isn't secured low enough at the back for that to work well.


----------



## digZ

Snowolf said:


> That`s great for you and I am not criticizing your decision to continue doing so. Why can`t you return that respect and stop calling people "stupid"?
> 
> You say, "to each his own" then contradict yourself by once again calling people who disagree with you "stupid". That is where I am having a problem with you. I am really not trying to convince you to quit wearing a helmet. You on the other hand refuse to admit that even though you disagree, my decision was based on logical risk management and instead call me (and others) "stupid". You can`t have it both ways here; you are either for total freedom of choice without your name calling or you are not. If not, then you are another Nazi.
> 
> As for this study, it clearly shows that in these crashes, the helmet really does not in fact prevent concussions. You are only looking at the data from the study that supports your argument and refusing to accept the data that contradicts your point of view. Before you go there, no I am not doing the same thing. I have and am not saying a helmet offers no protection. What I am saying is that there is sufficient reason for a person who is conducting their own risk assessment to conclude the risks of riding without a helmet are acceptable and are not just "stupid" Besides, I do not need the study to understand from what medical doctors have all repeatedly said about the causes of concussions:
> 
> 
> 
> Helmets only prevent surface trauma to the head. They only offer very slight reduction in this deceleration of the brain due to the padding. A padded beanie offers as much concussion protection as a hard shell helmet. You can get a serious concussion from the hard fall of a large jump, even though your head does not strike the snow. Based on that, I could be just like you and call everyone who rides park "stupid" because statistics show that if people quit going off of jumps, the concussion rates would drop to almost zero. Hell, why not follow your lead and just call everyone who rides and skis "stupid" because if people did not undertake this activity they could eliminate all chances of a concussion?I am sure Nazis like Nickwarren, are foaming at the mouth in anticipation of enacting more Fascist laws to ban all terrain parks next....:dunno:
> 
> Sure we can "agree to disagree" but only when you cease and desist calling those of us who choose not wear a helmet "stupid". That one comment is what I have an issue with and am not going to just "let it go"
> 
> In a related story, studies show that helmets would save many lives in severe storms. Let`s all go bananas and pass laws forcing people in tornado country to wear helmets in stormy weather. I mean hey, it`s "stupid" not to:
> 
> 
> Alabama tornadoes: Deaths reveal helmets, car seats may boost chances (slideshow) | al.com


I've never said anything about passing any laws to force people to do things. That is in fact a straw man argument. If I'm in tornado country and there's a storm brewing and I'm stuck in the open I'll sure do anything possible to mitigate my risk of being injured, whether by flying debris or lighting. A helmet would sure help to do that, and chances are I'll have a helmet in my trunk from snowboarding, so that sounds all good!:laugh:

I'll acknowledge that riding park, and skiing/snowboarding in general can be construed by some as stupid. But to me the benefit outweighs the cost/risk (The enjoyment I get from snowboarding, and riding outweighs the possible risk of injury), so I see it as not stupid although I can understand why people can see it as stupid. The same could be said for climbing mountains, or any other extreme activity. I find smoking stupid because in my eyes the risks far outweigh the benefits. I find wearing a helmet "not stupid", again because I feel the benefits far outweigh cost or risk. By a similar token I find not wearing a helmet as stupid, because in my eyes the risk/cost is greater than the benefit you gain. If reducing a mild concussion is the best benefit I can get from a helmet, I'd deem it a good investment. (It's my personal belief based on reading experimental studies and comments from sports trainers and physicists that in a lot of cases helmets can do more than that) 

I'm not going to advocate a law forcing anyone to wear a helmet, because everyone has different risk tolerances. I'm also not too fond of the anecdotal statistical evidence about snowboarding with helmets, simply because there are a lot of other variables affecting the concussion rate that can introduce some bias into the numbers (Increasing number of skiiers/boarders, increasing number of people using terrain park and other extreme features, etc).

If somebody calls me stupid for riding park or riding in general I'll promptly explain my position, if they continue to push the issue I'll flip the bird and move on. Now if they start trying to petition or push legislation which bans my activities which does nothing to hurt them, then I'll take exception to it. I know you'll never agree with my view as long as I attach the label "stupid" to it, so I'll take my Nazi tag, my tan suit, and my black knee high boots and just goose step off into the distance.


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## SatanRidesAlone

Hey you guys should all jus chill and mellow, may I suggest some organic tea


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## ThunderChunky

After researching and just using common sense. Helmets are kinda useless to me. I mean brain injuries happen from a hit to the head. The massive declaration of the head and a helmet can't help here. Nothing can, except for more time for your head to slow down. Also the way helmets are designed, unless they stuff a pillow in there, you would need a lot of cushioning to soften blows to the head. Which is what the foam is supposed to do. I mean, The only thing a helmet really does is instead of dying in a head slam, you become a vegetable. Other than that it has just become a confidence boost and mild pain releaver. I guess you could have good reason though. Look at KP and Danny they fought back from vegetable states. 

Can someone enlighten me on anything I missed. It was probably in the how brain injuries happen part. The main point though is that massive deceleration causes injuries. If this is right, the amount and material of foam in helmets ain't gonna do a whole lot. I really want to wear a helmet and want it to be safer. Right now though I have just kinda realized it's all in my head. I have really wanted one for a while too. Up until just this past day or so.


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## LyGuy

ThunderChunky said:


> I really want to wear a helmet and want it to be safer. Right now though I have just kinda realized it's all in my head. I have really wanted one for a while too. Up until just this past day or so.


You're saying you're not going to wear a helmet due to the arguments in this thread? Really?

*facepalm*


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## ThunderChunky

No, based on research and common sense. I didn't even read the past few pages. Also, the points made here are pretty logical. If what causes major brain injury is impossible to prevent except for more time and/ or distance for the brain to decelerate then a pillow is honestly more useful than a helmet. As long as the pillow is thicker than the foam in the helmet. If helmets get thicker foam then it would make sense to wear one. In that case though you would look ridiculous and it would be bulky. I could be wrong, but the brain hitting the skull is the basis of all brain injury. Helmets right now don't prevent this on a level that is noticeably different than anything else on your head.


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## IdahoFreshies

mpdsnowman said:


> wow you guys are awesome, two joints it took me to get thru this thread:laugh:


:laugh::thumbsup:


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## eddiethebus

I wear a helmet most of the time and look like a bellend in it. because of this I like to convince others on forums that they should wear them and look like a bellend too. That way we can all be bellends together and i'll feel more comfortable with my own decisions


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## eddiethebus

haha, I dont look that bad  I think my helmets probably saved me from more from being twated on the back of the head on lifts more than anything. 

For me personally its more a habit, I've spent years riding the UK domes where they make you wear a helmet on park nights. Taking it off now i'm in the mountains when its comofortable, warm and might offer protection one day just seems stupid.:dunno:


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## fattrav

I wear a helmet at the time of my choice. You can roger yourself and spawn ginger children if you don't like it.

This is usually if I am riding with friends and we're going to be pushing our individual limits, when the mountain is loaded with people and there is the risk of a "board to head" clash, or when there is an abundance of rocks showing on the trails. Because you know what...thats the only thing that my helmet "might" protect me from. Other than that, I wear one of my stylish crochet beanies.

Thinking that a helmet is going to stop any form of concussion is plain retarded. You only have to look to the abundance of professional riders in recent times that have "come off wrong" and it caused them blood clots & cardiac arrest, or to be a burden on the hospital system for however many years (you can turn it into a media fest the day that you go back and first start riding....not you and me specifically, no one wants to see that shit, I mean the pros).

Had a friend a few years ago come of a jump in NZ and bump his head, had a bit of a head ache, coma'd and wasn't back at work for a year. When he did finally come back, he was...well, he certainly wasn't the same guy that I knew. A week later he had fit while in the water at a beach as was gone. He wasn't wearing a lid the day he went off of the jump, but knowing him, it wouldn't have mattered anyways. 

Bottom line, when you brain is clanging around on the inside if your skull...your Smith Maze with top mounted pompom and skull candy ear pad inserts, or what ever, isn't going to do shit. Anyone that tells you different is clueless.


Pro or Con helmet, what this all comes down to is "the judging". You shouldn't judge others, least the flying spaghetti monster judge you.


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## cephlon

I have been snowboarding for almost 25 years and I don't even own a helmet. I used to wear a helmet at Skate-parks when I was younger just because they made me. I always hated em. I have never hit my head snowboarding, but last year I had a really close encounter with a rock at Kirkwood. I was just cruising along in some fresh powder when my board got caught on a hidden rock. It just stopped and flung me face first into the snow. My right arm hit a rock and it really hurt. Luckily my head just hit powder, but if I had been 6 inches over, my arm would have been my head. I don't know if it would have been a concussion, but I probably would have needed stitches. 

Since that experience I have been really considering getting a helmet. That's why I was on this forum, looking for helmet recommendations and such. Also, I hope to get my sons on a board soon, and would like them to start with helmets, so maybe I should be the "good" example. 

Not really excited about wearing one though.


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## Qball

I don't wear a certified helmet but wear a multi-impact "hard hat" and I'm convinced it protects better against concussion than EPS crap helmets. Hooked my edge yesterday doing a 3 on a volcano feature and landed in the flats directly on my back which caused my head snap back extremely hard. Probably would have been at least a day ender had I not been wearing the hard hat.


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## Shazkar

I wear one because it doesn't bother me and is warm and usually hats don't keep me too warm / get wet because I fall. And since it doesn't bother me may as well err on the safe side. If it bothered me then maybe I'd think differently though.


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## TorpedoVegas

Did anyone here notice that every single rider at the Supernatural event wore a helmet? I guess we'll be seeing at least one upcoming video with helmets on pros. The article I saw said every rider "chose" to wear a helmet. It didn't say it was manditory, but it probably was I would think


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## v-verb

I'm not going to read through this entire thread so forgive me if I've repeated something. There is a vid with girls riding - "let's make better mistakes tomorrow" or something like that . The girls aren't wearing helmets and there's one shot of a girl hitting her bare head on the pavement.

Fucking ridiculous that they aren't wearing helmets.


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