# Bindings/Boots overhang?`



## Motogp990

I measure my toe and heel over hang from the edge of the board not binding. On the Burton bindings I use, I set the toe of the footbed close to the edge of the board (not over), then adjust the heel cup as necessary.

I've never taken my bindings off to check what the toe/heel over hang looks like on the binding, so I have no idea if my toe/heel are equal on the binding.


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## Mizu Kuma

As Moto said, it's relative to the board not the binding!!!!!


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## timmytard

Put your bindings back on your board, where you think they should go.

Now take your bootsies & put em in your bindings.

All right now here is where you learn somethin'.:dry:

Tilt your board on edge until your boots touch the floor.

Both ways, like you were carving left & then carving right.

How's it look?
Same amount on either side?

How far does it tilt over before your boots hit?

That's the point of boot out. That's when you eat shit, guaran-fuckin-teed.

Boot out fuckin' sucks.

Nothin' worse than being in the middle of nice deep satisfying carve, only to have your feet slide out from under you.

No thank you.

I like to tilt mine to close to 90%.
That's why I prefer a wide board.


TT


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## Mystery2many

That's pretty much no overhang on the board. I adjust my toe ramp where the ramp would be under the palm and toes of my foot, not to the end of the boot where its hitting the ends of my toes. Use the slots on the binding disc going from heel edge to toe edge and center the boot on the board not the binding on the board. 

Also, how are you guys adjusting the heel cup on a solid baseplate? Union bindings have a heel cup adjustment, Burton Cartels do not. Do you mean the highback? The adjustment screws on the bottom of the highback are for rotating it, not moving it forward. You want the highback to be flush in the heel cup with no gap between them when not folded down.


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## Mizu Kuma

Mystery2many said:


> That's pretty much no overhang on the board. I adjust my toe ramp where the ramp would be under the palm and toes of my foot, not to the end of the boot where its hitting the ends of my toes. Use the slots on the binding disc going from heel edge to toe edge and center the boot on the board not the binding on the board.
> 
> Also, how are you guys adjusting the heel cup on a solid baseplate? Union bindings have a heel cup adjustment, Burton Cartels do not. Do you mean the highback? The adjustment screws on the bottom of the highback are for rotating it, not moving it forward. You want the highback to be flush in the heel cup with no gap between them when not folded down.


I know FLUX Bindings, you can adjust the heel of the footbed much the same as the gas pedal!!!!! Not sure with what the op means above though?????


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## Motogp990

Mystery2many said:


> Also, how are you guys adjusting the heel cup on a solid baseplate? Union bindings have a heel cup adjustment, Burton Cartels do not. Do you mean the highback? The adjustment screws on the bottom of the highback are for rotating it, not moving it forward. You want the highback to be flush in the heel cup with no gap between them when not folded down.


You're right, on my Diodes, I can only adjust the highback rotation.

I got confused with my Ride bindings, where I can adjust the length of the heel cup.


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## Rotcoddam411

Mystery2many said:


> That's pretty much no overhang on the board. I adjust my toe ramp where the ramp would be under the palm and toes of my foot, not to the end of the boot where its hitting the ends of my toes. Use the slots on the binding disc going from heel edge to toe edge and center the boot on the board not the binding on the board.
> 
> Also, how are you guys adjusting the heel cup on a solid baseplate? Union bindings have a heel cup adjustment, Burton Cartels do not. Do you mean the highback? The adjustment screws on the bottom of the highback are for rotating it, not moving it forward. You want the highback to be flush in the heel cup with no gap between them when not folded down.


Welp. This is what happens when I have only ridden unions. Thanks for saving me from that. Will re-adjust the screws. Guess I messed up on adjusting the binding, I will check em with my board tomorrow, thanks for the help guys


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## Robbo99

Mizu Kuma said:


> I know FLUX Bindings, you can adjust the heel of the footbed much the same as the gas pedal!!!!! Not sure with what the op means above though?????


he's talking about rotating your high backs to they are inline with the heel edge of your board.


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## Robbo99

worth remembering that just because you center your boot over your board and have equal overhang, doesn't mean that you have a good setup. Your center of gravity is not in the middle of your foot, so by deliberately centering your binding and boot vs the board you may find its harder to get on one edge over the other. For me at least, i find moving my heel slightly closer to my heel edge make that edge easier to hold.
However you may just need modify your board width or boot size. FWIW i used to ride a 13 boot till a genius in whistler got me to an 11; two weeks of pain bedding in but after i had way more control and could use a 25.5cm width board.


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## Mizu Kuma

Robbo99 said:


> he's talking about rotating your high backs to they are inline with the heel edge of your board.


He was talkin about movin heel cups, that's why I wasn't sure?????


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## Mizu Kuma

Robbo99 said:


> worth remembering that just because you center your boot over your board and have equal overhang, doesn't mean that you have a good setup. Your center of gravity is not in the middle of your foot, so by deliberately centering your binding and boot vs the board you may find its harder to get on one edge over the other. For me at least, i find moving my heel slightly closer to my heel edge make that edge easier to hold.
> However you may just need modify your board width or boot size. FWIW i used to ride a 13 boot till a genius in whistler got me to an 11; two weeks of pain bedding in but after i had way more control and could use a 25.5cm width board.


If you have the right size boot on, your foot should be centered!!!!! 

Probably why you felt more comfortable with your heel closer to the heel edge with bigger boots!!!!!


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## chomps1211

Mizu Kuma said:


> As Moto said, it's relative to the board not the binding!!!!!


^This^

That first pic, the one with your boots in the bindings, on the board? That looks like it's centered perfectly to me. 

Having said that,.. I own 3 pairs of Cartels. 2 non and one reflex set. None of them are "_perfectly_" centered. Close enough is usually good enough! Deciding whether to go with A little more toe or heel is probably more a matter of personal preference. You just want to avoid "extremes" in the difference between heel/toe.


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## SGboarder

Mizu Kuma said:


> If you have the right size boot on, your foot should be centered!!!!!


Actually, a little more to the heelside seems to be the preferred/recommended way.


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## Mizu Kuma

SGboarder said:


> Actually, a little more to the heelside seems to be the preferred/recommended way.


First I've ever heard of this?????

I've always centered, and never had any issue!!!!! 

What's the advantage, reason for recommendation?????


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## timmytard

Mizu Kuma said:


> First I've ever heard of this?????
> 
> I've always centered, and never had any issue!!!!!
> 
> What's the advantage, reason for recommendation?????


Me too.

I know if you have size 9 booties & you're rockin' a wide board,

YOU HAVE TO slide your whole foot, usually as far as your bindings will allow, closer to the toe side edge.


In theory then...

the reason you'd need to slide them back heel side edge, would be if they were in fact too big for the board.

So then if you need to slide your boot heel side to compensate?
Why wouldn't you just get a wider board

I don't know?:embarrased1:
Somethin' smells fishy


TT


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## SGboarder

Mizu Kuma said:


> First I've ever heard of this?????
> 
> I've always centered, and never had any issue!!!!!
> 
> What's the advantage, reason for recommendation?????


Well, it is what Burton suggests.

And some of the other people here:


ETM said:


> Thats perfect IMO, I set up the same way, a little extra leverage on the heel is a good thing.






tonicusa said:


> That's funny! Other than the 15/0, I went through the same evolution of stances and now ride 12/-6. Have a buddy that went through same exact sequence.
> 
> I know some Pros who purposely ride their bindings more towards their heel edge which I find interesting. Not sure if its for their rail game or spinning bigger rotations.


It also came up at dinner/party at hktrdr's house a couple of years ago and every single pro rider there did it that way.

But I suspect that for most people small variations do not really make much of a difference.


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## timmytard

SGboarder said:


> Well, it is what Burton suggests.
> 
> And some of the other people here:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It also came up at dinner/party at hktrdr's house a couple of years ago and every single pro rider there did it that way.
> 
> But I suspect that for most people small variations do not really make much of a difference.



It sounds like ETM is sliding them forward?


Every pro you say
All you lowly commoners wouldn't even know the difference, you suck so bad

Yeah this story's gettin' fishier & fishier


TT


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## ItchEtrigR

It really depends where the middle of the board is, nothing to do with toe or heel edge. Same principle applies when your on a skate deck , you can ride anything from a 7.75 to a 9 inches and your most comfortable stance will aways be feet placed in relation to that center line. Which is why TT is right that the smaller the width is you become heel heavy because you always want the balls of your feet in the same area.


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## ETM

timmytard said:


> It sounds like ETM is sliding them forward
> 
> 
> TT


No.
You want more heel overhang that toe, it also pays to have a board that is as narrow as you can get away with. All this wide for float stuff is misinformation fuelled by copy cats


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## SGboarder

timmytard said:


> It sounds like ETM is sliding them forward?


No, he sliding them towards the heel edge because he prefers more heel overhang.



timmytard said:


> Every pro you say
> All you lowly commoners wouldn't even know the difference, you suck so bad


I said neither of those two things.


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## timmytard

ETM said:


> No.
> You want more heel overhang that toe, it also pays to have a board that is as narrow as you can get away with. All this wide for float stuff is misinformation fuelled by copy cats


And why is that, oh wise one?

Why does it pay to have a board as narrow as you can get away with?
That question is also a personal preference thing on top of a performance thing

What does a narrower board give you besides quicker edge to edge transitions?
A softer flex, that's about it.

I've ridden chic boards, cause I can.

You can't lean into a carve as deep on a narrow board.

I like to dig deep trenches @ high angles, I can't on a narrow board.
Boot out happens.


Now this last one here

Wider doesn't float better you say? Hmmm

Please enlighten me.


TT


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## SGboarder

Here is another guy who was told by Burton to go with more heel overhang:



cscsw said:


> This is my case. Called Burton and they said it's ok and it's preferred to have more heel overhang. I have a doubt on it though.


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## timmytard

SGboarder said:


> Here is another guy who was told by Burton to go with more heel overhang:


Go get a wide board, ride it with size 9 boots.

Then tell me that.

I guess if that 17 year old kid says so, it must be true?


TT


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## Nivek

You have a disadvantage on your heelside mechanically speaking. This is why asymmetrical boards exist. So, depending on the binding, setting yourself up just a hair heel heavy actually can help even things out a bit. That said, some bindings it doesn't make a big enough difference, or the adjustments are too large. Then there's Flow. I occasionally set people up a hair TOE heavy because the highback/cable "power triangle" is that effective. Depends on the boot size, binding size, and how the two fit together. Also the boot stiffness matters. The stiffer it is the more you can err to the heels.


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## F1EA

If you can't center... being a little heel-heavy is better than toe heavy.


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## timmytard

Nivek said:


> You have a disadvantage on your heelside mechanically speaking. This is why asymmetrical boards exist. So, depending on the binding, setting yourself up just a hair heel heavy actually can help even things out a bit. That said, some bindings it doesn't make a big enough difference, or the adjustments are too large. Then there's Flow. I occasionally set people up a hair TOE heavy because the highback/cable "power triangle" is that effective. Depends on the boot size, binding size, and how the two fit together. Also the boot stiffness matters. The stiffer it is the more you can err to the heels.


Sidetrack

Flow's "power triangle" that has been the principle for how Flow bindings work, from the beginning 

Lately I've been hearing all this talk about flex.

Flow's don't flex, that steel cable doesn't stretch.

That's why hard boot guys like em so much


TT


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## Snow Hound

I mentioned this before but the SBF hive mind largely ignored it: When I bought my first set up the guy in the shop mounted the bindings, made me to strap in and got me to rock from edge to edge asking if one edge needed more effort than the other? He then adjusted until they felt equal. It made sense to me and this is how I've set my boards ever since. Overhang looks roughly the same but I've never measured it.


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## Mizu Kuma

SGboarder said:


> Well, it is what Burton suggests.


http://akamai-ssl.burton.com/2015/pdf/manuals/15PKG_BDG_EST_Manual_ENG.pdf


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## Mizu Kuma

SGboarder said:


> No, he sliding them towards the heel edge because he prefers more heel overhang.


Yet Robbo was sayin to move your heel closer to the heel edge, which unless you're on a wide powder board, doin this will give you more toe overhang!!!!!

vvvvv



Robbo99 said:


> i find moving my heel slightly closer to my heel edge make that edge easier to hold.


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## Mizu Kuma

Nivek said:


> You have a disadvantage on your heelside mechanically speaking. This is why asymmetrical boards exist. So, depending on the binding, setting yourself up just a hair heel heavy actually can help even things out a bit. That said, some bindings it doesn't make a big enough difference, or the adjustments are too large. Then there's Flow. I occasionally set people up a hair TOE heavy because the highback/cable "power triangle" is that effective. Depends on the boot size, binding size, and how the two fit together. Also the boot stiffness matters. The stiffer it is the more you can err to the heels.


Pretty sure assym boards came about due to how duck stance angles on bindings relate to their positioning on the effective edge?????

So this would change when it came to a rider that uses a forward stance on both bindings!!!!! Hence why asymmetrical profiles aren't used in directional powder boards for instance?????


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## Mizu Kuma

And then Burton says this also!!!!!


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## Mystery2many

If you want a real answer. Rather than assume or argue about what works better, experiment for yourself. Try it more toe, try it more heel, try different angles, try different widths. Personal preference, body type, boot size, riding style and many other variables play a role. Find what works for you by trying everything, you'll also gain knowledge.


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## Nivek

Mizu Kuma said:


> Nivek said:
> 
> 
> 
> You have a disadvantage on your heelside mechanically speaking. This is why asymmetrical boards exist. So, depending on the binding, setting yourself up just a hair heel heavy actually can help even things out a bit. That said, some bindings it doesn't make a big enough difference, or the adjustments are too large. Then there's Flow. I occasionally set people up a hair TOE heavy because the highback/cable "power triangle" is that effective. Depends on the boot size, binding size, and how the two fit together. Also the boot stiffness matters. The stiffer it is the more you can err to the heels.
> 
> 
> 
> Pretty sure assym boards came about due to how duck stance angles on bindings relate to their positioning on the effective edge?????
> 
> So this would change when it came to a rider that uses a forward stance on both bindings!!!!! Hence why asymmetrical profiles aren't used in directional powder boards for instance?????
Click to expand...

That's another part of it, yes. But with your ankle pivot sitting above your heel you have more edge modulation on your toes than heels.

And the reason we don't see a large selection of directional asyms is then you have to make goofy and regular options.


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## Rotcoddam411

IS anyone else wondering how you even centre your boot on Cartels?? Their are no adjustments to centre it, and the manual doesn't say shit...


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## timmytard

Mizu Kuma said:


> http://akamai-ssl.burton.com/2015/pdf/manuals/15PKG_BDG_EST_Manual_ENG.pdf


Hey, no way.

I did win a Snicker-Doodle.

I didn't know that was in there.
But then why wouldn't it be?
It's a known FACT.



Nice find Mizu Kuma, Just facts. 
I don't wanna hear a story about some pros who all did/do it.
Not just some but, all of them. So there must be no doubt, it 's true

Or the nameless kid from rider services, who's been snowboarding for 4 years.


You can only carve as deep as your boots will allow 





TT


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## timmytard

Mystery2many said:


> If you want a real answer. Rather than assume or argue about what works better, experiment for yourself. Try it more toe, try it more heel, try different angles, try different widths. Personal preference, body type, boot size, riding style and many other variables play a role. Find what works for you by trying everything, you'll also gain knowledge.


No, no, these are facts..

I just stated em & Mizu Kuma backed everything I said with FACTS.

I already knew this. I am not assuming or arguing any of if it.

These are all things I've experienced, learned & stored away over the 28 years I've been snowboarding.


Gimme my gawd damn Snicker-Doodle.:hairy:


TT


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## F1EA

Rotcoddam411 said:


> IS anyone else wondering how you even centre your boot on Cartels?? Their are no adjustments to centre it, and the manual doesn't say shit...


Yes there are.
Yes the manual says how.

The mounting holes on ReFlex baseplates have 3 positions/holes you can use: center, heel, toe. You move to the toe if your boots end up heel heavy, move to the heel if they are toe heavy. You use the center if they are dead on.

Now bindings are the same.

Ride and Union have an adjustable heel loop. You mount the baseplate on the center and adjust the heel loop to center the boots.

Burton, Now and others have a fixed heel. You center via the baseplate.

Whats your bindings and boot size?


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## Rotcoddam411

F1EA said:


> Yes there are.
> Yes the manual says how.
> 
> The mounting holes on ReFlex baseplates have 3 positions/holes you can use: center, heel, toe. You move to the toe if your boots end up heel heavy, move to the heel if they are toe heavy. You use the center if they are dead on.
> 
> Now bindings are the same.
> 
> Ride and Union have an adjustable heel loop. You mount the baseplate on the center and adjust the heel loop to center the boots.
> 
> Burton, Now and others have a fixed heel. You center via the baseplate.
> 
> Whats your bindings and boot size?


Size 7, and S cartels. Guess I will just take a look later, my bad


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## timmytard

F1EA said:


> Yes there are.
> Yes the manual says how.
> 
> The mounting holes on ReFlex baseplates have 3 positions/holes you can use: center, heel, toe. You move to the toe if your boots end up heel heavy, move to the heel if they are toe heavy. You use the center if they are dead on.
> 
> Now bindings are the same.
> 
> Ride and Union have an adjustable heel loop. You mount the baseplate on the center and adjust the heel loop to center the boots.
> 
> Burton, Now and others have a fixed heel. You center via the baseplate.
> 
> Whats your bindings and boot size?


Only these last couple years did RIDE stop making discs with multiple holes.

You can still adjust via heel cup, but having the option of moving the whole binding as well, was one of the reasons I liked RIDE.

I still like the bindings but it does have less options now..


TT


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## F1EA

timmytard said:


> Only these last couple years did RIDE stop making discs with multiple holes.
> 
> You can still adjust via heel cup, but having the option of moving the whole binding as well, was one of the reasons I liked RIDE.
> 
> I still like the bindings but it does have less options now..
> 
> 
> TT


Ride probably changed when they added a Mini-disc.


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## timmytard

Rotcoddam411 said:


> IS anyone else wondering how you even centre your boot on Cartels?? Their are no adjustments to centre it, and the manual doesn't say shit...


Yes.

By far the easiest thing to do.

Would be to buy a normal pair of Cartels from me.

Shiny new ones, with regular 4x4 hole pattern.

1. Shiny & mint.
2. Your size
3. Super cheap
4. Close enough to get in person.
5. One stop shop. I have everything.
6. You, get to meet the Tardonian One.:jumping1: That is like a whole nother list right there:hairy:

Ta-da


TT


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## Rotcoddam411

timmytard said:


> Yes.
> 
> By far the easiest thing to do.
> 
> Would be to buy a normal pair of Cartels from me.
> 
> Shiny new ones, with regular 4x4 hole pattern.
> 
> 1. Shiny & mint.
> 2. Your size
> 3. Super cheap
> 4. Close enough to get in person.
> 5. One stop shop. I have everything.
> 6. You, get to meet the Tardonian One.:jumping1: That is like a whole nother list right there:hairy:
> 
> Ta-da
> 
> 
> TT


If you had told me two month ago, before I dropped on a new pair.

:finger1:


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## timmytard

Rotcoddam411 said:


> If you had told me two month ago, before I dropped on a new pair.
> 
> :finger1:


I think I did, a few times?

Tried to trade too.

Take em back, its been 2 months.

You cun't have had that many days on em

I'm imagining I prolly coulda given you 2 pair for what you paid?

Plus you've got wives & kids.

Shit I can set your whole family up & you'll get a free vacation outa the money you save.

Fuck I'm good to you considering you've done nothin' for me except flip me the bird.


TT


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## Nivek

timmytard said:


> F1EA said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes there are.
> Yes the manual says how.
> 
> The mounting holes on ReFlex baseplates have 3 positions/holes you can use: center, heel, toe. You move to the toe if your boots end up heel heavy, move to the heel if they are toe heavy. You use the center if they are dead on.
> 
> Now bindings are the same.
> 
> Ride and Union have an adjustable heel loop. You mount the baseplate on the center and adjust the heel loop to center the boots.
> 
> Burton, Now and others have a fixed heel. You center via the baseplate.
> 
> Whats your bindings and boot size?
> 
> 
> 
> Only these last couple years did RIDE stop making discs with multiple holes.
> 
> You can still adjust via heel cup, but having the option of moving the whole binding as well, was one of the reasons I liked RIDE.
> 
> I still like the bindings but it does have less options now..
> 
> 
> TT
Click to expand...

The Infinity frame, what Rodeo and up use, has been mini disc since its introduction in I think 2010. The lower series stuff fit mini disc last year. The Delta and Alpha series that preceded Infinity did not have multiple holes, they were slots. You do lose front back adjustment in the disc with mini, but I've always preferred to have micro stance width adjustment, and the heelcup on the new frame has enough adjustment for it's boot range in my experience.


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## timmytard

Nivek said:


> The Infinity frame, what Rodeo and up use, has been mini disc since its introduction in I think 2010. The lower series stuff fit mini disc last year. The Delta and Alpha series that preceded Infinity did not have multiple holes, they were slots. You do lose front back adjustment in the disc with mini, but I've always preferred to have micro stance width adjustment, and the heelcup on the new frame has enough adjustment for it's boot range in my experience.


Rodeo's are the Black & silver ones with the hollowed out ankle strap?

I had those last year & thought they were pretty good, a little freestyle-e maybe? My boots are super stiff so it works.

I still got the lateral movement if I wanted it.

But these didn't have mini discs I don't think?
Pretty sure it was the slots, not holes. But I thought the sluts were great, never had slippage problems.

One other reason I like the sluts, was you could run it the other way, parallel to the length of the board.
To get a wider and/or a more set back stance.


Most boards have ample inserts, so that combined with a shit load of binding adjustments:jumping1: All right.


But for instance those 2 Palmer Titanium Channel decks had a 3 pack on either end.

That's a total of 4 stance options. Plenty if you're racing down a course or what have you, but pretty much everything else was limited.

It just has a narrow racing/carving stance on it, it's not meant for anything else really.

Those sluts were awesome for that, I don't have to worry about toe drag usually, so that board always had Ride Bindings on it. & Burton haha & what ever other kind have sluts on em.


TT


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## Robbo99

Mizu Kuma said:


> If you have the right size boot on, your foot should be centered!!!!!


Center of gravity is not through the mid point between your toe and heel. Centering your boot on the board doesnt give you optimal board control; clearly thats a function of the relative width of your board.



> Probably why you felt more comfortable with your heel closer to the heel edge with bigger boots!!!!!


This was after.


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## Mizu Kuma

Robbo99 said:


> Center of gravity is not through the mid point between your toe and heel. Centering your boot on the board doesnt give you optimal board control; clearly thats a function of the relative width of your board.


The human body does a pretty good job of compensatin then!!!!!

Otherwise we wouldn't be able to stand, walk, run, jump, or ride a snowboard?????


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