# Let's say I wanted to pickup one of these short, fat powder boards



## linvillegorge (Jul 6, 2009)

What's your recommendation an why?

Something along the lines of a Yes 420, Salomon Derby, Yes 20/20, K2 Party Platter etc. I do want something with a little bit of a tail on it that can be ridden switch, so stuff like the K2 Cool bean is out.

One caveat, it has to be available via backcountry.com


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## shasty (Nov 30, 2014)

I've been trying to follow a lot of the short fat snowboards this year...
Here's what I've gathered from the best reviewed boards:

K2 Party Platter: More freestyle oriented than other boards, carves well and well rounded. There are several reviews of the board being a bit unstable in high speed or chundery conditions. 

Yes 420: Wider than many other short fats, really aimed for deep days and wide pow fields.

Yes Optimistic: Strong focus on good carving, is not as short as others (151 being the shortest)

Salomon Derby: Stiffer side of the short fats, does very well in pow trees and also carves well. 

Ride Warpig: Similar to derby? It also seems like a well rounded, stiffer short fat.


I still can't decide between Hcraft, Derby, and Party platter.. They all seem great, but derby is a lot cheaper...


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## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

If you wanna get looser and surfy the Party Platter, if you wanna be able to charge it a little bit and ride park, War Pig. Derby sits between the two. And those three are my favorite as short fat everyday boards.


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## linvillegorge (Jul 6, 2009)

Basically what I'm looking for is float for days with good pop and good enough stability to handle quite a bit of typical resort chop. When I say switch, I basically mean just landing 180s, riding them out and popping right back to regular.

So basically...

FLOAT, pop, and stability (talking about edgehold and dampness here). Not looking for a dead fish, but don't wanna be riding a wild bronco either when things start tracking out.

My concern with the Derby is that it basically looks like a short, fat Sick Stick on paper and I never cared for the Sick Stick all that much. Not sure if that comparison is apt or not though.


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

420 Powder Hull

I've seenit and that thing looks dope. I would really really want to try one of those on a deep day.


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## linvillegorge (Jul 6, 2009)

Yeah, definitely intrigued by the powder Hull concept, but not sure I wanna spend that kinda cash. I have a pretty sizeable credit at backcountry, but not seven bills worth.


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## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

420 for better float, War Pig for more versatility.


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## linvillegorge (Jul 6, 2009)

Where do you find the War Pig more versatile? Or maybe,l just as importantly, where do you find the 420 lacking?

Any thoughts on the powder hull stuff?


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## shasty (Nov 30, 2014)

I feel like BA's review of the powder hull was very informative


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## freshy (Nov 18, 2009)

I have a 420 and I find it fun as hell. Got some Now Drives mounted on it. I find my self riding it a lot like a surfboard slashing and carving every wave like feature I can. It's got unreal float that you really notice when you hit the flats. Riding groomers is surprisingly better then I expected.
Only complaint is in hard pack steeps I found the tail seemed to wash out. But riding it in the deep it was meant for is just so damn fun.

I don't have much experience with other short fatties. But the 420 is definitely a blast. Having said that I would have bought the 420PH if I had a choice.


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## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

The 420 was designed as a Japow deck. That was it's intention first and foremost. It's still good outside of that, but it's best in deep no question. The War Pig was more of a freak board designed for everything. All mountain versatility with crazy float was its goal. A deck shaped in a way to get crazy good float but ride in a way that it rips every condition on the mountain.

If I was looking for a short fat pow deck it would be the 420. If I was looking for a surfer it'd be the Party Platter, and if a one board quiver in short fat shaping the War Pig. Ride's team has been riding the War Pig in Japow, Park Comps, and Danimals has been destroying street rails and summer camps on it.


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## SGboarder (Jun 24, 2012)

linvillegorge said:


> Basically what I'm looking for is float for days with good pop and good enough stability to handle quite a bit of typical resort chop. When I say switch, I basically mean just landing 180s, riding them out and popping right back to regular.
> 
> So basically...
> 
> ...


From that description, I'd recommend something with a bit of camber(or at least flat) and may be a touch longer. Say Hovercraft or Darwin. Possibly a Fish.


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## Elektropow (Mar 6, 2014)

The Derby is not all that great in deep pow. You can easily get that nose up but a bit difficult planing on top of it. Ultimately I'd go for my regular 155 when I want to go fast in soft snow, but the Derby in 147 is just super fun. I primarily use it as my play around board and since it was so cheap, as a rock board. Not sure it's very close to a Sick Stick.. I thinkl it's torsionally a bit stiffer and has that ever so orgasmic skate pop with the short stiff tail. I'd really want to try the Optimistic, but think it wouldn't initiate such playfulness as easily and would actually be closer to my 159 FA. Could be wrong.

For switch landings, everything here apart from maybe the Warpig is somewhat doable but having to be on point each time.


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## linvillegorge (Jul 6, 2009)

Pretty much between the War Pig and the 420. Leaning a bit toward the 420 simply because this is going to be very much a quiver stick. It'll probably see most of it's use on pow leftovers to be honest. Not sure it'll replace a more traditional pow stick on most pow days. More like a stick for mining the trees for stashes, but we'll see. Maybe it will become my primary pow stick.


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

linvillegorge said:


> Pretty much between the War Pig and the 420. Leaning a bit toward the 420 simply because this is going to be very much a quiver stick. It'll probably see most of it's use on pow leftovers to be honest. Not sure it'll replace a more traditional pow stick on most pow days. More like a stick for mining the trees for stashes, but we'll see. Maybe it will become my primary pow stick.


Yeah that 420, Fish or Darwin.
My buddy got a Darwin end of last season, and for the price that is a solid choice.


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## linvillegorge (Jul 6, 2009)

Definitely not looking for any of the no tail boards or swallowtails. I want a legit tail.


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

linvillegorge said:


> Definitely not looking for any of the no tail boards or swallowtails. I want a legit tail.


420.

Thread closed.


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## GDimac (Nov 19, 2015)

Nivek said:


> The 420 was designed as a Japow deck. That was it's intention first and foremost. It's still good outside of that, but it's best in deep no question. The War Pig was more of a freak board designed for everything. All mountain versatility with crazy float was its goal. A deck shaped in a way to get crazy good float but ride in a way that it rips every condition on the mountain.
> 
> If I was looking for a short fat pow deck it would be the 420. If I was looking for a surfer it'd be the Party Platter, and if a one board quiver in short fat shaping the War Pig. Ride's team has been riding the War Pig in Japow, Park Comps, and Danimals has been destroying street rails and summer camps on it.



Ya, that Brandon Davis kid on Shredbots. He's been on the WarPig for the past yr I think, and has been destroying the park with it. That is the Warpig ya, yellow fat board from Ride?


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## linvillegorge (Jul 6, 2009)

For these short fat boards to evidently be all the rage, no brick and mortar stores actually carry them. Even if I wanted to buy this thing locally it wouldn't be an option.

Shop local they said! Can't find shit I said! LOL!


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## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

MSO in Silverthorne will have War Pigs, Party Platters, and Derbys. No 420 though.


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## linvillegorge (Jul 6, 2009)

Nivek said:


> MSO in Silverthorne will have War Pigs, Party Platters, and Derbys. No 420 though.


Thanks! The Christy Sports down in Littleton has a 420. The War Pig was the one I couldn't track down.


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## linvillegorge (Jul 6, 2009)

No luck at MSO. I was up in Summit anyway so I swung by.


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## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

They haven't had a bunch of stuff ship yet. They ordered it.


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## Noreaster (Oct 7, 2012)

What would be women's equivalents of short fat pow specific boards these days? Besides Hovercraft, that is.


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## linvillegorge (Jul 6, 2009)

The more I think about it, the more I lean toward the War Pig. Every other pow specific deck I've had, no matter how much I love it in powder, eventually ends up getting sold because I just don't ride it enough to justify keeping it. I already have some a powder oriented deck (NS 25), so I better go with something that has a little versatility to it or two years from now someone on here will get a great deal on a barely used 420.


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## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

Noreaster said:


> What would be women's equivalents of short fat pow specific boards these days? Besides Hovercraft, that is.


Cool Bean comes in a 38, Salomon Pillow Talk, I think United Shapes makes one or two, Burton sorta makes one.


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## shasty (Nov 30, 2014)

Noreaster said:


> What would be women's equivalents of short fat pow specific boards these days? Besides Hovercraft, that is.


Party platter also comes in 143, women can ride it.


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## robotfood99 (Mar 19, 2016)

Must admit War Pig is growing on me. Took a hard look at the Optimistic at the shop, and I'm sure it will be fun to carve but I have enough fun carvers. As for pow, I'm in the same boat as linvillegorge. War Pig looking the most versatile so far.


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## linvillegorge (Jul 6, 2009)

154 Ride War Pig it is. This will be the first board that I've bought that wasn't a NS or Capita (or either CRC or RCR) in quite awhile.


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## robotfood99 (Mar 19, 2016)

Awesome. Be sure to let us know what your take is.


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## ridinbend (Aug 2, 2012)

Nivek said:


> If you wanna get looser and surfy the Party Platter, if you wanna be able to charge it a little bit and ride park, War Pig. Derby sits between the two. And those three are my favorite as short fat everyday boards.


Hey Nivek, I'm along the same lines as lin but I weigh 220. Any idea which of the short fat sticks would hold an edge best while carving at my weight? Cheers.


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## whitelinesman (Jun 30, 2016)

Everyone's thoughts on the K2 Cool Bean? I've picked up a 161 Burton Fish as a 'deep day' board for my Japan trip in Jan/Feb, wondering if a 150 Cool Bean might feel like kinda the same, although it is quite a different shape/concept. I'm 36, 200lbs, 6ft, riding 20 years, zero interest in park or spinning anything, I generally go straight, fast, through tight spaces


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## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

ridinbend said:


> Hey Nivek, I'm along the same lines as lin but I weigh 220. Any idea which of the short fat sticks would hold an edge best while carving at my weight? Cheers.


Honestly a War Pig is a good option. Then a 420.



whitelinesman said:


> Everyone's thoughts on the K2 Cool Bean? I've picked up a 161 Burton Fish as a 'deep day' board for my Japan trip in Jan/Feb, wondering if a 150 Cool Bean might feel like kinda the same, although it is quite a different shape/concept. I'm 36, 200lbs, 6ft, riding 20 years, zero interest in park or spinning anything, I generally go straight, fast, through tight spaces


So the Fish is more gonna ride like a traditional deck totally optimized to ride in deep snow, the Cool Bean feels a lot more like surfing. You put way more weight on your front foot than with nearly any other pow deck I've ever ridden. So turning is different, slashing is different, jumping off stuff is different...

Basically, it will not be too close to your Fish, you should get one.


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## whitelinesman (Jun 30, 2016)

Cheers Nivek - legend!


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## whitelinesman (Jun 30, 2016)

Thoughts on the type of ride of the 4/20 v Cool Bean?


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## SnowDogWax (Nov 8, 2013)

Weight counts. Anybody over 190LBS+++ will not have the same results.... as Nivek or the other small riders. 190++ I would buy the Burton FA 159W.


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

SnowDogWax said:


> Weight counts. Anybody over 190LBS+++ will not have the same results.... as Nivek or the other small riders. 190++ I would buy the Burton FA 159W.


You should hop in a 148


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## linvillegorge (Jul 6, 2009)

Slapping a generic size to a board doesn't make any sense. Most of these short fatties have the surface area of a much larger board. I'm not all that concerned with effective edge length either as I like the ride of a lot of RCR boards and by nature they have a reduced effective edge length for their respective size.

There a lot more to board design than just overall length.


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

linvillegorge said:


> Slapping a generic size to a board doesn't make any sense. Most of these short fatties have the surface area of a much larger board. I'm not all that concerned with effective edge length either as I like the ride of a lot of RCR boards and by nature they have a reduced effective edge length for their respective size.
> 
> There a lot more to board design than just overall length.


Yeah, but Snowdog should hop in a 148


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## shasty (Nov 30, 2014)

If you do the crude math (just multiplying length to the waist width), War Pig 154 actually has a slightly larger surface area than FA 159W. (4158 cm2 vs 4134 cm2). The small 148 would be equivalent to FA 156. 

YES 420 148 though, that's equivalent to FA 162W... it's a seriously wide board..


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## linvillegorge (Jul 6, 2009)

When you consider the War Pig's deep sidecut, that board is going to have more surface area than the waist width would indicate. The deep sidecut is going to create a board that is narrower at the waist relative to the rest of the board.


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## shasty (Nov 30, 2014)

This is why I said crude estimate lol
Just showing the guy that he should maybe do some basic math before he says short fat boards cant float and then suggest a boad with smaller surface area


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## SnowDogWax (Nov 8, 2013)

shasty said:


> This is why I said crude estimate lol
> Just showing the guy that he should maybe do some basic math before he says short fat boards cant float and then suggest a boad with smaller surface area


My point is the weight of the rider has to be part of the equation...


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## shasty (Nov 30, 2014)

And my point is that the weight of the rider is distributed to the surface area of the snowboard. 
That being said, my point is only valid in powder. 
I don't really know how these boards do in terms on piste and other styles of riding in relation to heavier weights, but it seems from BA's reviews (and he's 177) that they do fine.


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## Elektropow (Mar 6, 2014)

shasty said:


> This is why I said crude estimate lol
> Just showing the guy that he should maybe do some basic math before he says short fat boards cant float and then suggest a boad with smaller surface area


It's not all about the surface area either. I've found two things that actually matter quite a lot: flex and how gradually the rocker on the nose rises. A softer but not completely noodle flex will let you put weight on your back more easily (a softer binding tip to tail will help as well) and if you have too steep a rise in the nose, you're not getting any use out of that surface area we're discussing here. A more gradual rocker you see in the Jones line for instance will help a lot. Of course you don't want to sink that nose either, so it's sort of a balancing act when it comes to design. My FA is easy to keep afloat in any speeds even though the rise is a bit steeper. I don't think I'd have a short pow stick if it wasn't so fun to ride for its low weight and easy maneuverability.


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

shasty said:


> If you do the crude math (just multiplying length to the waist width), War Pig 154 actually has a slightly larger surface area than FA 159W. (4158 cm2 vs 4134 cm2). The small 148 would be equivalent to FA 156.
> 
> YES 420 148 though, that's equivalent to FA 162W... it's a seriously wide board..


Yep, super wide.

Those things will float like crazy.

I'm not totally in love with that wide of a board (for the intent of hitting groomers that lots of people want them for).... but in my opinion, these are pow boards to ride in deep (and not so steep) pow. They'll be rideable in groomers, but forget about such versatility. Said versatility will probably come down to whoever's riding it ability to ride anything.

And yes, the nose rocker makes a BIG difference.


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## Phedder (Sep 13, 2014)

shasty said:


> If you do the crude math (just multiplying length to the waist width), War Pig 154 actually has a slightly larger surface area than FA 159W. (4158 cm2 vs 4134 cm2). The small 148 would be equivalent to FA 156.
> 
> YES 420 148 though, that's equivalent to FA 162W... it's a seriously wide board..


Slightly less crude math would be ((tip+tail width/2) + waist width)/2 x length. 

Gives the 154 Warpig - 4,512cm2, 
159W FA - 4,478cm2, 162W - 4,636cm2
148 YES420 - 4,556cm2. 
150 Cool Bean - 4,552cm2
154 Optimistic - 4,416cm2
151 Derby - 4,371cm2
150 Party Platter - 4,314cm2

Okay I'm bored now hah. I've just recently started looking at the Salomon Super 8 as well, very tempted on a 163 - 4,710cm2 :grin: Obviously not a short fatty, but mid flex flat to backseat camber screams float and versatility to me.


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## Triple8Sol (Nov 24, 2008)

Noreaster said:


> What would be women's equivalents of short fat pow specific boards these days? Besides Hovercraft, that is.


Look at the 2016 and up Salomon Pillow Talk. Comes in a 143 and 147, basically a sized down version of the Derby. Also the 2017 K2 Wildheart, which comes in a 141 and 146.


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## linvillegorge (Jul 6, 2009)

Well, Ride has been completely unresponsive on trying to help me track one down locally. I emailed them Monday and again yesterday with no response. I'm sure everyone there is a bit unfocused right now since Newell has them on the auction block and has pretty much said if they can't find a buyer they're shutting them down, but it's still off-putting. If you're still there collecting a paycheck, do your damn job.


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## robotfood99 (Mar 19, 2016)

Didn't you say you had to buy from backcountry.com? Site shows its in stock?


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## linvillegorge (Jul 6, 2009)

robotfood99 said:


> Didn't you say you had to buy from backcountry.com? Site shows its in stock?


Yep. I'd still like to check one out locally if possible. Hell, half the time when I go to do that I still walk out of that shop having bought something.


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## Argo (Feb 25, 2010)

ridinbend said:


> Hey Nivek, I'm along the same lines as lin but I weigh 220. Any idea which of the short fat sticks would hold an edge best while carving at my weight? Cheers.


You guys did all this math for surface area and float regarding rider weight vs longer decks but you all missed the point.:blahblah:

"*
Any idea which of the short fat sticks would hold an edge best while carving at my weight?*"


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## linvillegorge (Jul 6, 2009)

Argo said:


> You guys did all this math for surface area and float regarding rider weight vs longer decks but you all missed the point.:blahblah:
> 
> "*
> Any idea which of the short fat sticks would hold an edge best while carving at my weight?*"


Well, let's be fair now. That post specifically asked for a reply from one particular poster and he responded and there was only one person doing math and it wasn't in response to that particular post.


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## ridinbend (Aug 2, 2012)

Argo said:


> You guys did all this math for surface area and float regarding rider weight vs longer decks but you all missed the point.:blahblah:
> 
> "*
> Any idea which of the short fat sticks would hold an edge best while carving at my weight?*"


http://www.snowboardingforum.com/mervin/204665-lib-tech-coho-short-wide-pow.html
Sintered base, no mag

I was hoping for similar board recommendations to this...


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## Noreaster (Oct 7, 2012)

Triple8Sol said:


> Look at the 2016 and up Salomon Pillow Talk. Comes in a 143 and 147, basically a sized down version of the Derby. Also the 2017 K2 Wildheart, which comes in a 141 and 146.


I like the Pillow Talk shape but not the extruded base on it, although it may not matter all that much for a powder deck. 

I can't find any worthwhile reviews about United Shapes boards - specifically their Explorer and Cadet series - aside from the fact that they apparently handle snow well (which is a good sign since they are snowboards after all). I'm intrigued just by what I'm reading on their homepage but dropping over $500 on a cat in a bag is not an option.


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## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

linvillegorge said:


> Yep. I'd still like to check one out locally if possible. Hell, half the time when I go to do that I still walk out of that shop having bought something.


I've been told MSO got their ride ship.


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## linvillegorge (Jul 6, 2009)

Nivek said:


> I've been told MSO got their ride ship.


Cool
If I'm up that way this weekend I'll swing by.


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## Andi7808 (Sep 15, 2016)

What do you think about turning in tight spots with Yes 420 PH and Yes optimistic 2017 ? Which board will be more nimble in the trees ??? 


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## Parkerross (Nov 9, 2012)

420 sucks in the chop only really fun on deep days, marhar lumberjack is suppose to kill in all conditions not sure if you've thought about one of those. I'd suggest a nitro pow but you want a tail. Also the slush slasher is fun in pretty much all conditions, well most people love it or hate it. I love it, rode it about 80% of the time last year and I have like 10 boards so that says something.


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## linvillegorge (Jul 6, 2009)

Probably would've considered the Marhar, but it's not available through backcountry.com


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## BurtonAvenger (Aug 14, 2007)

linvillegorge said:


> Probably would've considered the Marhar, but it's not available through backcountry.com


We have the Lumberjack at the Lumberyard in Breck. I just sold the 52 but have a 55 sitting there and should have a reorder of the 52 in the next week or so.


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## linvillegorge (Jul 6, 2009)

BurtonAvenger said:


> We have the Lumberjack at the Lumberyard in Breck. I just sold the 52 but have a 55 sitting there and should have a reorder of the 52 in the next week or so.


I don't have a hefty gift certificate sitting here for the Lumberyard in Breck though. :wink:


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## shasty (Nov 30, 2014)

Just bought K2 Party Platter. Hopefully it lives up to the hype I've seen in the reviews.


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## linvillegorge (Jul 6, 2009)

BurtonAvenger said:


> We have the Lumberjack at the Lumberyard in Breck. I just sold the 52 but have a 55 sitting there and should have a reorder of the 52 in the next week or so.


For shits and giggles, how much is that Lumberjack? You can PM if you'd like.


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## Andi7808 (Sep 15, 2016)

Which size optimistic is better for me 151 or 154 ? I'm 178 cm 85 kg boots size 10 us .


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## SGboarder (Jun 24, 2012)

Andi7808 said:


> Which size optimistic is better for me 151 or 154 ? I'm 178 cm 85 kg boots size 10 us .
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


154

10 chars


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## Andi7808 (Sep 15, 2016)

Pyl or optimistic is better in powder and is more agile in the trees ? Pyl 159 or optimistic 154 ??? 


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## SGboarder (Jun 24, 2012)

Andi7808 said:


> Pyl or optimistic is better in powder and is more agile in the trees ? Pyl 159 or optimistic 154 ???
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Let's see here. One (PYL) is designed for "stability at speed" and "incredible edge hold and a lively snap out of every turn" and is 5cm longer. The other (Optimistic) for "more maneuverability in the trees" and "floatation in the deep" and "allows you to ride the board up to 6cm shorter" (actually 5cm in this case) plus has a tight sidecut.

Sure sounds like you want the Optimistic...


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## jae (Nov 27, 2015)

update? what did you get, or if not what did you boil it down to?


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## linvillegorge (Jul 6, 2009)

Haven't bought anything yet. No rush. There's no terrain worth riding yet and I'm out of state for a good chunk of December. Combine the two and I'm not even sure I'll get in a day before the New Year. That seems insane to me, but it is what it is.

Probably going with the War Pig. The Lumberjack is intriguing, but intriguing enough to pay double out of pocket for what I can get the War Pig for? Nah, not that intriguing.


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## phillyphan (Sep 22, 2016)

jae said:


> update? what did you get, or if not what did you boil it down to?


I had it narrowed between the lumberjack, war pig and optimistic. Went w/ the optimistic. It had a little stiffer flex, which I liked. Hopefully will get to ride it next week for the first time.


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## tizonstreets (Nov 2, 2017)

linvillegorge said:


> 154 Ride War Pig it is. This will be the first board that I've bought that wasn't a NS or Capita (or either CRC or RCR) in quite awhile.


Out of curiosity, how did you like the 154 War? I'm 6'0'' 200lbs with 11.5 boots. Looking for something versatile as well.


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## linvillegorge (Jul 6, 2009)

tizonstreets said:


> Out of curiosity, how did you like the 154 War? I'm 6'0'' 200lbs with 11.5 boots. Looking for something versatile as well.


I lied. I ended up going with the Marhar Lumberjack. I had honestly decided on the War Pig but stumbled across a used Lumberjack in great condition at a great price in the meantime.


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## spreadhe4d (Oct 23, 2017)

linvillegorge said:


> I lied. I ended up going with the Marhar Lumberjack. I had honestly decided on the War Pig but stumbled across a used Lumberjack in great condition at a great price in the meantime.


How's the lumberjack working out for you? Looking for something fun and playful for the tight/steep trees on the east. Figure it's not great on ice but I usually ski on the icy days anyway.


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## Rip154 (Sep 23, 2017)

I got myself a Yes Clark, cut it to a surfboard fish shape, with 6m sidecuts between bindings, and as wide as I could get it. Sealed edges up with some leftover primer and antifouling. Awesome board, was surprised about how well it worked on groomers without steel.


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