# Flow or Union bindings the way to go?



## Guest

What would you choose if you had the chance to own Flow bindings v.s Union's? 

I heard that union has better base plates and gets more stability, however Flow is fast and sporty.

Which is better for the wallet/purse and which is better?

(I have flow flite 3)


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## iKimshi

I've heard good things about both except that when it comes to Flows, it's a lot about getting used to them and personal preference of how they feel. But in my opinion, I would go with Union just because I've gotten the chance to try a pair from my friends and actually liked the way they felt and responded.


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## Milo303

Unions will be the better value in the long run even if the Flows may be quicker or more sporty


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## xxfinnellxx

well, with the flows, you have that single strap and lock the highback thing. Which i dont really approve of because it adds a lot of weight and they can undo themselves. Id say go for the unions because those things are preached to be rapage freestyle bindings. Id say unions...you might need to climb the price scale in the flows to find a quite qualaty binding because of their system


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## Dcp584

You are smoking crack. That shouldn't even be a question. Union all the way. Although I don't like the high backs on the RE-union binding I feel like I could snap it in half with one hand. check out the Forces they are made to be a bombproof ride anything binding.

PS This is in the wrong section and should be moved.


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## wrathfuldeity

flows do not work if trying to get in or out of the bindings in deep pow...flows for groomers only.


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## maf05r6

I picked up a pair of unions when my Burtons broke last year. They really nice. I will probably get another pair this year.


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## Triple8Sol

Union makes some fantastic bindings, while Flow bindings blow. This is firsthand info. on both.


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## hanzosteel

if you like your toe straps over the end of your boots, you'll be s.o.l. with flows. i'll be the first to say neither, rome.


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## Guest

Another worthless opinion: Union.

Flows one advantage? They are faster off of the lift. Until they break, and you miss half a day in a shop getting them repaired. IMHO, Unions are a superior product in both performance and durability. Leave the "sporty" things for the Spice Girls.


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## jyjuke

Union over Flows anytime, any day, anywhere.


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## Karpediem

wrathfuldeity said:


> flows do not work if trying to get in or out of the bindings in deep pow...flows for groomers only.


New flows you can get into like traditional bindings with ratchets. In the picture below, NXT's, the powerstrap can flip open like regular binding, put your foot in and ratchet them back up. So if you can get into regular bindings in pow, you can get into Flows.


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## Wiredsport

As you guys already know, the Flow concept has been highly succesful, and highly imitated.

This year, Gnu Agro » GNU Snowboards has moved to the Flow concept for all of its top end binding models and K2 has expanded its Cinch line Cinch CTX | Bindings | K2 Snowboarding to 3 models.

Flow has among the lowest warranty rates in the industry and among the highest satisfaction rates (return customers).


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## Penguin

My first bindings were an older pair of Flow MK3s. I've fallen out of them many many times, and it got really annoying. Can't say for their quality now though. Needless to say I switched to regular ratched bindings and couldn't be happier.


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## Slen17

i`d personally go with the flows. i have a pair of Amp 5`s, and other than being a lil on the heavy side, are some of the sweetest binders ever! i will admit union puts out some sweet binder(just ask danny kass), but i`d stil roll with the flows. i got in an additional 5 runs PER DAY with those!


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## MunkySpunk

The Flow logo is cooler. Is that what you were asking?


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## Guest

*Flow Bindings are wakkkkk!!*

I used to work at stratton mtn in Vermont!!! as a lifty hahah yea i know!! anyways probly once a day i would see someone walking around with there bindings going down the mountian of course they were flow bindings!!! the lock latch is very weak and in cold temps if you put to much pressure on it they always crack!!! DO NOT PURCHASE FLOW bindings unless your a girl and dont ride much cuz you will be hiking instead of shredding!!!! want union bindings check out C3 Worldwide Online Shop!!!! here are a pair I got from them today they are siiiiiiiiiiiiiiiick!!! most important LTD want custom bindings at a sick price check them out here is a picture of my pair


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## hanzosteel

everybody and their mutt are jumping on the union bandwagon. they're nothing special. the toe rachet and toe strap sucks a$$ that's for sure. the rest is just same as any other basic binding. not bad, nothing special either. just a lot of hype. sorry, had to say it.


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## jyjuke

Not sure about the construction of Flow bindings, but without even looking at the performance of each binding I'm willing to bet Union bindings will last you longer than Flows. They're built tough and meant to be ridden 100+ days a season.

If you really want to know about specific details, watch these..

YouTube - Union Tech Clinic Part 1
YouTube - Union Tech Clinic Part 2

Check it.


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## MunkySpunk

smokinman said:


> I used to work at stratton mtn in Vermont!!! as a lifty hahah yea i know!! anyways probly once a day i would see someone walking around with there bindings going down the mountian of course they were flow bindings!!! the lock latch is very weak and in cold temps if you put to much pressure on it they always crack!!! DO NOT PURCHASE FLOW bindings unless your a girl and dont ride much cuz you will be hiking instead of shredding!!!!


Just WTF are you smokin, man?


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## Guest

*kush!!!*

and dont hate cuz flow bindings suck ass!! boards are good but bindings are beattt!


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## Guest

nevermind.


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## MunkySpunk

smokinman said:


> and dont hate cuz flow bindings suck ass!! boards are good but bindings are beattt!


Stop mixing the kush with drain cleaner. You've got no fucking clue what you're talking about.


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## Triple8Sol

Wiredsport said:


> As you guys already know, the Flow concept has been highly succesful, and highly imitated.
> 
> This year, Gnu Agro » GNU Snowboards has moved to the Flow concept for all of its top end binding models and K2 has expanded its Cinch line Cinch CTX | Bindings | K2 Snowboarding to 3 models.
> 
> Flow has among the lowest warranty rates in the industry and among the highest satisfaction rates (return customers).


Hate to break it to you, but they're not the same at all buddy. Yes they all share a dropdown back for step-in action. But the K2 and Gnu versions keep the 2 strap system not the stupid panel like on Flows. While I still wouldn't use any of them, I'm positive they'll work way better than Flows.



hanzosteel said:


> everybody and their mutt are jumping on the union bandwagon. they're nothing special. the toe rachet and toe strap sucks a$$ that's for sure. the rest is just same as any other basic binding. not bad, nothing special either. just a lot of hype. sorry, had to say it.


They're catching on bigtime, which I have mixed emotions about. Still, I got a pair of Unions 3-4 seasons ago and they've only gotten better since. No gimmicks, just clean, simple, lightweight and reliable


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## hanzosteel

based on my limited expeerience with my unions, the quality isnt there to warrant the pop it gets here. in addition to the one of the weakest toe rachet and strap design i've ever seen in a binding, mine also suffered from the heelcup jamming issue that has been brought up by others before. i'm not saying they're absolute garbage, i just think rome and others put out a far better and solid product and is more deserving of the attention union gets. i don't agree union is popular because it's necessarily a solid, well built product - i'll just say i think there are a lot of lemmings out there that can be sold on anything if it's mentioned enough times even by random people. union is the flavour of the day. and someone pls lend me a sledgehammer so i can dislodge my union heelcup - bleh.


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## Leo

What's with all of these Flow haters who have never even stepped into a pair? You want to talk about people hiking smokin? I can't count how many people I've seen walking down the mountain with broken straps and ladders from traditional bindings. Every binding is liable to breakage dude. Especially the entry level ones. Most people with Flows own the Flite series and those ARE complete garbage. They are good for a cheap introduction to Flows, but they will not last very long. Look into the M9s or NXTs then start flinging your trash talk around about Flows. Better yet, stop looking and actually try a pair.

If you want a two strap top, then get the I-Flex tops from flow. The NXT FSE comes with the I-Flex top is very close to two straps. Here is the deal guys, every single company has their bad products. $100 bindings probably are not meant to last you a lifetime and are not meant for experts who ride hard. If Scotty Lago can shred in Flows, so can any of you. I'm not a fanboy, I have a very mixed set-up. I just don't hate on any brands. Everything is preference. Nobody is perfect. Quit preventing people from trying out certain gear just because you hate it for whatever lame reason. I've seen people break their necks horseback riding, but you'll never hear me say horseback riding sucks. Want to know why? I've never ridden one.

To the OP: It is worth investing a little extra cash in your bindings no matter what company it is. Entry level gear is cheap for a reason.


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## hanzosteel

i tend to agree. i will bet most people who blow smoke about flows have never actually tried them. flow gets bashed because it lacks the cool factor, not because they're poop - you know, very little exposure on the latest dvds, big name pro riders, all that clever marketing b.s. 
my wife loves hers and she is waaaay cool so up your nose with a rubber hose.


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## MunkySpunk

Triple8Sol said:


> While I still wouldn't use any of them, I'm positive they'll work way better than Flows.


You're positive they'll work better, huh?

You can't always be right, but you can always be sure you're right.

You're like a movie critic ragging on a movie you've never even seen. No really.

BA gives the M and NXT Flow lines the thumbs-up once they're dialed-in. That's good enough for me.

My personal experience with actually *USING* both the Flows and the K2 Cinch's is I prefer the Flows. It's easier to get the K2's dialed in with the simple two-strap system, but there's as many moving parts as regular bindings AND Flows put together. That means there's twice as many things that can go wrong and even more weight. 

Once you get your Flows dialed in (a one-time deal), they're as good as anything else out there for your average everyday user who isn't tearing up Peak 5 at Silverton. They're MUCH faster, and this helps tremendously when you're at the hill with your ski buddies. 

The biggest problem with Flows arises when you think the Flow using kids you see who are coming off the lift, easily sliding a boot in and slapping the highback up in one deft movement without even stopping have it right. They're dialed in loose as hell to get that convenience. You've got dial it so you have to stop, kick that boot in with a bit of force, and then slap the highback up. Then your boot's in there nice and tight and you get the response you're looking for. 

Are *any* of you heliboarding off Rakekniven in Antarctica? No. Then the Flows are good enough for you. And if you're going to be a wise-ass and say 'yes', I've got news for you, the Unions aren't going to cut it either.


Leo said:


> Look into the M9s or NXTs then start flinging your trash talk around about Flows. Better yet, stop looking and actually try a pair.


Are the rest of you jackasses reading this? Practical common sense advice here.


> I've seen people break their necks horseback riding, but you'll never hear me say horseback riding sucks. Want to know why? I've never ridden one.


Wait.. but aren't you pretty sure horseback riding sucks even though you've never tried it? Doesn't that make you a good critic of horseback riding?


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## Triple8Sol

Thing is, I do have personal experience with Flows. I got a mid-level pair for an ex, years back. I did all the setup, tuning, adjustments, etc... throughout that season so I'm very well oriented with how they work and their flaws. I've also had a couple good friends buy the top of the line NXT, and their own reviews were basically the same as mine. So yes, I'm positive.


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## Leo

Triple8Sol said:


> Thing is, I do have personal experience with Flows. I got a mid-level pair for an ex, years back. I did all the setup, tuning, adjustments, etc... throughout that season so I'm very well oriented with how they work and their flaws. I've also had a couple good friends buy the top of the line NXT, and their own reviews were basically the same as mine. So yes, I'm positive.


"Years back" is the flaw in your review. They've come a long way especially their 2010 line-up. With that said, there are plenty of other great bindings out there. I personally prefer the feel of a traditional binding. I use Flows because of how they execute the easy entry system. K2 or other brands do not compare to Flow's all around quality when it comes to this type of binding. As I've said, I've seen far more traditional bindings fall apart than Flows. And yes, here in Michigan, there are a huge number of Flow users thanks to the small mountains. Over here, you spend 60% of your day riding the lift. Flow isn't perfect, but it is far from the criticism it is receiving around here. As far as I have browsed, I have yet to come across a someone who has complained about Flow M9 - NXT from this year or the last couple of years.


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## Wiredsport

Triple8Sol said:


> Thing is, I do have personal experience with Flows. I got a mid-level pair for an ex, years back. I did all the setup, tuning, adjustments, etc... throughout that season so I'm very well oriented with how they work and their flaws. I've also had a couple good friends buy the top of the line NXT, and their own reviews were basically the same as mine. So yes, I'm positive.


Fair enough. There is no one product that will work for all users. We hear good and bad on these forums about every make, brand, and model. No one, including great companies like Flow, is immune. It should be noted, however, that comparing to a set of Flow bindings from "years back" is difficult, in that Union (for the sake of keeping with the theme of this thread) was not even around producing bindings a handfull of years ago. All of the features that are incorporated in their products had already been worked out by the real innovators of our sport.


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## MunkySpunk

Triple8Sol said:


> Thing is, I do have personal experience with Flows. I got a mid-level pair for an ex, years back.


OK, so you've never used a Flow binding yourself, and your experience is with an unnamed mid level model an unnamed number of years ago on another person. i.e. Your ex has the experience.

Tell me again how this makes you a reliable source on Flows, K2 Cinches, and GNU Agros? Maybe I'm missing something here.


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## Guest

I have had both. I didn't mind my flows but I would go union if I had to choose again.


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## Nmbr1Ballr

How would you guys say the Flows do compare to the Cinch? I actually own a pair of The Cinch CTC but and for my next pair of bindings do want another Cinch or Flow binding. The only time I used the regular straps was when I rented a board and I love the ease of getting in and out. I am always ready to go like 10 seconds before everyone else. Its just so easy. How would you guys say the 2 compare?


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## DBLdangerTILT

This is ridiculous. I silently laugh at people strapping in at the top with flows. Flows are a joke. Union are solid, look at rome, ride and k2 for longevity.


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## legallyillegal

09 Flow Team is $125 on Sierra right now...


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## Triple8Sol

I love how, when people are locked in defensive mode, they only single out certain things to try and misconstrue. I've seen their new stuff since then, which was only about 3yrs ago, and haven't seen too many drastic changes. If you have plenty of real world hands-on experience with the equipment, and also hear firsthand reviews of it in person before/during/after use, that's a pretty solid knowledge base, despite not strapping in personally. I don't need to go to and buy a Geo Metro to know it's a pile. I can't remember the specific model b/c at the end of the season I immediately sold those pieces of doo doo for cheap and tried to forget about that mistake. Doesn't even really matter since, and I'll also repeat myself on another point, which is that friends have owned their so-called "best" models within the past couple seasons and had essentially the same complaints. Double the price, a season or two newer, new colors and marketing, but apparently things stay the same.


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## Wiredsport

Triple8Sol said:


> I love how, when people are locked in defensive mode, they only single out certain things to try and misconstrue. I've seen their new stuff since then, which was only about 3yrs ago, and haven't seen too many drastic changes. If you have plenty of real world hands-on experience with the equipment, and also hear firsthand reviews of it in person before/during/after use, that's a pretty solid knowledge base, despite not strapping in personally. I don't need to go to and buy a Geo Metro to know it's a pile. I can't remember the specific model b/c at the end of the season I immediately sold those pieces of doo doo for cheap and tried to forget about that mistake. Doesn't even really matter since, and I'll also repeat myself on another point, which is that friends have owned their so-called "best" models within the past couple seasons and had essentially the same complaints. Double the price, a season or two newer, new colors and marketing, but apparently things stay the same.


I disagree. Flow has been amongst the most progressive binding companies in the last 3 years. They have completely reworked all hardware, their cabling system, articulation points and materials. Additionally they have added traditional access to some models and have added full ratchet adjustment to most models. Their mono strap system has become so refined that it offers flex and adjsutment that equals or surpasses strap systems, and comfortability that stands alone. 

Again, no one product is for every rider, but man, if you strap on a set of Antti Autti's bindings, you ain't gunna be callin' em' no Geo Metro


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## MunkySpunk

Triple8Sol said:


> I love how, when people are locked in defensive mode, they only single out certain things to try and misconstrue.


Defensive over what? What are you smoking? Were you on the offensive or something? Now I'm lost.

I'm trying to ascertain where you actually have real experience using what you're talking about. Have you used Flows? No. Have you used GNU Agros? No. Have you used Cinches? No. You're "experience" with Flows lies in helping an ex strap in. Therefore, you know how Flow bindings ratchets work, and that's it. What is there to misconstrue?

You're acting like snowpunk type D. You've got no fucking frame of reference other than sight. Do you pick up a book, look at the pretty cover picture, put it down, and tell people you're pretty sure it was good or it sucked?


> I've seen their new stuff since then, which was only about 3yrs ago, and haven't seen too many drastic changes.


And I've seen Morrow boards that LOOK sweet. They LOOK just like the Burton Vapor except for graphics. The LOOK just like the NS Titan except for graphics.

Do you go to the hill, look at it, and call it a good day of boarding? What changes do you expect to SEE? Should they make bindings that have 56 straps over the front for three-toed midgets?


> If you have plenty of real world hands-on experience with the equipment


And you admitted yourself you don't when it comes to Flows, Cinches, and Agros.


> and also hear firsthand reviews of it in person before/during/after use, that's a pretty solid knowledge base


Which is not your knowledge base. But if that's good enough for you, go to BA's blog and look up his take on Flows. Unlike you, he's actually used them. Now, by your standards, you should be an authority on Flows and give them the thumbs up.


> despite not strapping in personally


Exactly. _*You*_ have no meaningful frame of reference.


> I don't need to go to and buy a Geo Metro to know it's a pile.


Obviously not, since you have the magic ability to look at something and be an authority on it. :laugh:


> but apparently things stay the same.


Apparent? As in appearance? Meaning you judge it based on appearance. You mean judging by the way they look, things stay the same. Wow.. that means Flows suck and they're not updating their technology because they look the same, huh? They're Flow bindings. They've got a flip down highback and a strap that goes over the boot. The LOOKS don't change. Until the human race suddenly evolves ostrich feet, they're not going to radically change the way they look.

How long have your favorite bindings had two straps going over the foot? 
Now, using your logic, I'm going to give my review of every traditional binding out there: ZOMFG!! They don't look like they update their technology, they must suck!!! Well, at least, they LOOK like they suck, so they must suck. 

So what are you doing using bindings that obviously suck because they haven't changed the way they look for several years, genius?

You ragged on Flows, someone called you on your ignorance, and now you're locked into trying to defend your stand with pathetic non-logic. This is getting fun.


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## MunkySpunk

Wiredsport said:


> Again, no one product is for every rider, but man, if you strap on a set of Antti Autti's bindings, you ain't gunna be callin' em' no Geo Metro


Ahhh.. but that's where you're wrong. He doesn't need to strap them on to know they suck. They LOOK like they suck. :laugh:


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## Leo

Wiredsport said:


> I disagree. Flow has been amongst the most progressive binding companies in the last 3 years. They have completely reworked all hardware, their cabling system, articulation points and materials. Additionally they have added traditional access to some models and have added full ratchet adjustment to most models. Their mono strap system has become so refined that it offers flex and adjsutment that equals or surpasses strap systems, and comfortability that stands alone.
> 
> Again, no one product is for every rider, but man, if you strap on a set of Antti Autti's bindings, you ain't gunna be callin' em' no Geo Metro


You stole words right out of my mouth. 3 years is a long time to R&D. The current years have the traditional ratchet system so what is it that you unexperienced users will complain about now? Personally, I don't really care about what people say about what their friends said. Everyone exagerates. I won't doubt that you only had one friend own a pair of flows and turned that into 3 just make your point more valid. The OP asked for opinions on these two bindings and I'm 99.9% positive that he wants first hand experienced reviews.

Let me reiterate, Flow has pros, people who are light years above all of our skill levels put together, that use their bindings. And don't start talking about the sponsorship. If the bindings were as garbage as you say, the pros would not be able to win anything with them. You laugh at flow users? That's because you have the time to laugh while you are strapping in. You think you're so good yet you mock other boarders for using a brand you don't like?you are the exact reason snowboarders get a bad rep from skiers. Funny how the real pros teach others and the wanna-be ones just sit there trash talking.

Triple8sol: word of mouth from a few people hardly renders Flow bindings useless. Many more out there that love it. I'm sure you know your stuff, but you shouldn't bash brands that you have no experience with. You can say that geo sucks, but you'll never be able to describe how it drives. 

To the OP: just ride whatever makes you comfortable. Nothing is perfect, things break. This won't be your last pair of bindings so just get out and shred.


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## jaaxnikols

*.*

Go get whatever your stoked on, and forget what everyone else thinks is cool, or "better", or you'll just end up all looking like the same person on the mountain. How cool is that?

Demo some Flows, then Demo some Unions, then make your own decision instead of relying on other people. That never works well when it comes to a company that has this much hype (Union). Reminds me of Forum boards back in 2000. A lot of people will just like a company because of its team image, or how "cool" it is to ride that product.

Every company that produces snowboard bindings has models that will be prefered by some, and not by others. Seriously just go snowboarding, and stop thinking its okay to laugh at people for the gear they are riding... atleast they are out there riding!


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## Leo

jaaxnikols said:


> Go get whatever your stoked on, and forget what everyone else thinks is cool, or "better", or you'll just end up all looking like the same person on the mountain. How cool is that?
> 
> Demo some Flows, then Demo some Unions, then make your own decision instead of relying on other people. That never works well when it comes to a company that has this much hype (Union). Reminds me of Forum boards back in 2000. A lot of people will just like a company because of its team image, or how "cool" it is to ride that product.
> 
> Every company that produces snowboard bindings has models that will be prefered by some, and not by others. Seriously just go snowboarding, and stop thinking its okay to laugh at people for the gear they are riding... atleast they are out there riding!


+1 for truth. Stop adding to the "Snowboarders = Pant sagging punks" stereotype. And get out of that "one brand is superior" mentality. Mix your shit up, trust me, you'll ride just the same. We all have a common interest here and that is Snowboarding. Why alienate people that share the same hobby just because they are less advanced than you or use a brand you give the finger to? Just shred bro.


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## Zetetic

Hi, just thought I'd add my experience. Bought a pair of Flow Eleven's back a couple of years ago. From what I paid I'd say they were mid range at the time, certainly not the basic flows. Pro's are they're great as a beginner binding, very quick in and out when set up properly. Con's I found were they did take a while to get set up just right. They had ratchets but far more fiddly than the ones you find on normal two strap bindings. Combining that with getting them set just right using the ratchets like a traditional binding to get in and out just wasn't a practical option and against the whole point of having flows anyway. Also as I progressed I found them to be just too unresponsive. Hence I decided to buy myself a new pair of traditional straps and got a pair of Union forces to go with my new Blacklight.

So to summarise, The Flows I had were great to learn with and if you're using lifts a lot you'll appreciate the quick entry. They weren't very responsive (and before anyone says, I did have them setup properly) and stay well away if you're using for backcountry/deep pow.


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## Wiredsport

Zetetic said:


> and stay well away if you're using for backcountry/deep pow.


I am not sure if you were aware of this, but Flow now has full front entry (just like on a conventional two strap) available for those riders who have trouble with them in Pow.


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## Zetetic

Wiredsport said:


> I am not sure if you were aware of this, but Flow now has full front entry (just like on a conventional two strap) available for those riders who have trouble with them in Pow.


Like I said I can only go on the one's I had which are a couple of years old, pic below...


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## MunkySpunk

Zetetic said:


> Like I said I can only go on the one's I had which are a couple of years old, pic below...


I remember those. I know those front 'ratchets' you had to fiddle with. They weren't the greatest. They weren't made for off and on and off - that's what the flip down highback was for. They stayed in place once you had them dialed in, for sure, but they weren't ratchets, they were locks.

My wife has the 2008 Essence bindings (women's M-series) with the same thing. They make it tougher to get them dialed in, but you've only got to do it once a season (unless you change boots). She loves them, but she's also not Travis Rice. They do what she wants at the level she's happy at - and that's all you need at the end of the day.

The mid to high end Flows these days have legit ratchets on all four points for front entry in deep pow and fast dial-in.


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## Wiredsport

Zetetic said:


> Like I said I can only go on the one's I had which are a couple of years old, pic below...


Sorry if that sounded critical of you at all. I appreciate your comments. I was just pointing out a new feature that some may not have been aware of.

Back to comparing Flow to Union, I think that it is pretty important to compare similarly priced models. For instance in the 219.00 to $250.00 range:

Flow M9 SE 2010 Snowboard Bindings
Flow NXT AT-SE Antti Autti 2010 Snowboard Bindings


















vs:


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## Guest

jaaxnikols said:


> Go get whatever your stoked on, and forget what everyone else thinks is cool, or "better", or you'll just end up all looking like the same person on the mountain. How cool is that?
> 
> Demo some Flows, then Demo some Unions, then make your own decision instead of relying on other people. That never works well when it comes to a company that has this much hype (Union). Reminds me of Forum boards back in 2000. A lot of people will just like a company because of its team image, or how "cool" it is to ride that product.
> 
> Every company that produces snowboard bindings has models that will be prefered by some, and not by others. Seriously just go snowboarding, and stop thinking its okay to laugh at people for the gear they are riding... atleast they are out there riding!


it's always the same sentiment posers think because they spent so much money on their gear they think they own the mountain, and scoff at everybody else who they think have no right to be there. those last words are too true- as long as they're riding, what does it matter, really? there's plenty of snow to go around for everyone.


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## m60g

Union:thumbsup:


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## Leo

Correct me if I am wrong, the Flow 11 series were built on the flight platform. Yea, the older flows were definitely a pain to setup. You only needed to do it once though. I can tell you now that this year's has a true ratchet system. I always wondered why they didn't do it this way in the first place. The inner straps are fixed which you can adjust by removing the bolt like with traditional bindings.

The NXT AT is hot. I ordered the NXT FSE though because it has gold on it lol. That and I get a super silly discount.

Have you guys seen the 24 Real? Them shits is crazy son!


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## MunkySpunk

Leo said:


> The NXT AT is hot. I ordered the NXT FSE though because it has gold on it lol. That and I get a super silly discount.
> 
> Have you guys seen the 24 Real? Them shits is crazy son!


I thought it was the 24 real that had the gold on it. :dunno: 

I've got the NXT-AT's, but I'd kill some serious personages for a pair of 2010 NXT-FRX's that I could afford. :laugh:


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## Leo

24 real has 24k gold plates. The NXT has fake gold plates lol. I'm sure someone will ask me if they are the 24 reals. I'll just be like, I'm rich bitch! Pfft I wish haha.


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## Triple8Sol

Oh, you don't like Flows? You have no idea what you're talking about. Oh, you've researched them online, played with them in stores, discussed them with salespeople and random people on the chairlift, bought a set that you singlehandedly setup/maintained throughout an entire season, discussed them with friends that have/had flows, etc...? Despite people's natural tendency to justify their purchases and decisions, they were all lying and are idiots. Besides, riding shotgun, you can't tell a Geo from a Lexus! Plus you must have bought one of the lower-end ones that are under $200. You get what you pay for, you cheap bastard, no such thing as a good binding in that price range! Oh your friends had high end models that cost around $300? Oh, they must be old because Flow bindings were mind-blowing then but they're amazing now. Oh, they were from only a season or two ago? Well didn't you know they've now added ratchets which not only helps alleviate one problem, but solves them all without adding any more moving parts for potential failure and additional weight?!? You have no right to say anything about any product unless you've personally owned/ridden their most expensive top-of-the-line model from next season, even if you are honest about what you do/don't know. How dare you post!

Sorry for sharing my opinion and being honest about how I formed that opinion. What I meant to say earlier was that Flow is the Snapple of bindings. They've always been amazing and get exponentially better each year.Since some people have had success with them, anybody else that has complaints is either a poser that is regurgitating what they read online or a complete moron that doesn't know how to setup bindings properly or both. By that logic, considering all the people that are vocal about loving Forces/390's, if anybody has complaints, they're full of shit or a shill from another co.

Besides, Union is just selling gimmicks to bandwagoners. Flows have never been hyped or trendy! They were never the latest thing that was once considered the most innovative thing to happen to snowboarding and a revolution in binding philosophy when they first came out. Union is trendy because they sponsor so many big name pro riders and are just hype whereas Flow doesn't sponsor any famous riders...who's Lago or Autti? Never heard of those noobs. Flows are popular among some people because they've been reliable, lightweight, and streamlined since day one. Everyone else is just a moronic hater.


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## Leo

Wow way to get super defensive there. Nice way to end a debate. I never once said union sucks or that flow has never been hyped. I also never said there aren't any good bindings for under $200. I openly admitted that flow has bad bindings in their lineup and only their high ends are good. That is what makes the difference between someone like you and me. I don't go praising any one company to be completely superior to another. I see brands for the good shit that they have. I can care less about what people have to say about the shit models. 

Your little metaphor is inherently and utterly retarded. Riding shotgun in a geo? Did you and a friend ride on one snowboard with one foot each in a binding? No. You base your judgment on hear-say by a few out of thousands. You were called out on that now deal with it. You turned a simple debate about equipment into insults and condescending remarks. Of course, I don't expect any less from your type. You want to read how reviews should be done? Go sift through a few of BA's reviews. 

Plenty of companies have been hyped including flows. Union is the current hype that everyone and their momma recommends. That is called a bandwagon and you're on it. That doesn't mean it's bad. If you take insult by that then that is your problem. 

To the OP, I'm sure Unions are great, everyone loves them. I just can't push it because I never stepped into a pair. Unlike triple, I don't trash shit I never demoed.

BTW, comparing snowboard bindings to cars? Really? Looks like you need an oil change bro. No hard feelings though, you turned this into something else.

Sick of all these punk boarders that trash brands without valid reasons. Man, Unions must be completely perfect without one bad part in any of their equips. Get real. Stop hating on shit and just fucking ride what makes you happy. Don't be a killjoy to others just because you heard something sucks.

Edit: Had to fix a lot of my phone typos xD


----------



## MunkySpunk

Triple8Sol said:


> Oh, you don't like Flows? You have no idea what you're talking about. Oh, you've researched them online, played with them in stores, discussed them with salespeople and random people on the chairlift, bought a set that you singlehandedly setup/maintained throughout an entire season, discussed them with friends that have/had flows, etc...?


All of which = You never once have strapped them on and used them. What about the positive reviews? Why are they invalid? You've got several people on this thread who have used them and like them, including one dealer who knows a shitload more about them than all of us put together, and how his customers like them. You've got zero frame of reference, so why are you dismissing all the positive opinions? Particularly since other people's opinions are how you're forming yours.


> Besides, riding shotgun, you can't tell a Geo from a Lexus!


Either way, you're IN the car, not hearing about another person in the car.


> Plus you must have bought one of the lower-end ones that are under $200. You get what you pay for, you cheap bastard, no such thing as a good binding in that price range! Oh your friends had high end models that cost around $300?


I've got no idea where you're going with this, but if you're suggesting that you're being called on your ill-formed hearsay opinions on that premise, you're wrong. Mostly because even YOU have no fucking clue what year or model you 'heard about' from your ex.


> Well didn't you know they've now added ratchets which not only helps alleviate one problem


Well, they did add ratchets, and it alleviated the problem of the frustrating toe locks. That's what we call a 'fact'. Not an opinion, and not an opinion I formed by listening to another person give their opinion.


> but solves them all without adding any more moving parts for potential failure and additional weight?!?


Sorry, what problems are you talking about, what problems have YOU had with the flow bindings YOU'VE used?


> You have no right to say anything about any product unless you've personally owned/ridden their most expensive top-of-the-line model from next season, even if you are honest about what you do/don't know.


Say whatever you want, and get mocked because you're talking out your ass. :dunno:


> Sorry for sharing my opinion and being honest about how I formed that opinion.


Don't apologize. I've had lots of fun calling you out on the bullshit ways you formed your opinion.


> What I meant to say earlier was that Flow is the Snapple of bindings.


So, does that mean your ex likes Snapple and told you about the taste? Does that make Snapple good? :laugh:


> anybody else that has complaints is either a poser that is regurgitating what they read online


Not anybody, just you.


> Besides, Union is just selling gimmicks to bandwagoners..... Union is trendy because they sponsor so many big name pro riders and are just hype whereas Flow doesn't sponsor any famous riders.


Wow... that's a pretty harsh opinion you have of Unions, also based on idiot "reasoning". :laugh:
At least I had the common sense to not give an opinion on Unions if I've never used them.


> Everyone else is just a moronic hater.


Again, not everyone, just you.. and a couple other idiots in this thread who gave no reason for their rationale or maintained that Flows have some sort of a sexual preference for bindings of the same gender. :laugh:


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## PalmerFreak

I can only speak of my experiences with Flow bindings as I've never had a pair of traditional strap-and-ratchet bindings. I started out with the Burton SI system, which was OK but had some definite drawbacks, and then moved on to Flow.

My first pair of Flows - can't remember the model - were purchased because they looked cool and I quickly found out that they were geared towards the pipe/park and were really flexy and not very responsive. Since I do mostly freeride I got rid of them and purchased some Pro-11's. The Pro-11's are geared for freeride and were stiff and responsive but I had to tweak the strap ratchets some. My only problem with them was getting out of them. The highback was very springy and would catch on the heel of my boot and I almost always had to use my hand to clear it.

I bought a pair of higher end pair of Flows before last season (the NXT-FRX model) and love them. Got an awesome deal on eBay and saved about $150. I had to tweak the hell out of them to get them just right - took most of a full day of riding - but they are great bindings. The highbacks aren't as springy and are easy to get in/out of.

I've never had any mechanical failures on either of the Flow bindings that I've owned but I don't ride 100 days a year either.

My suggestion if you decide on Flows is to make sure you match up your riding priority - park/pipe vs freeride - if you are heavy into one type of riding. As mentioned by many here, if you buy cheaper entry level bindings from any company you get what you pay for. You will need to tweak them some but IMHO they are well worth the effort.


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## jaaxnikols

*.*

Last time I checked Antti Auti and Scotty Lago were big name pros, both of which ride for Flow.

You guys must live somewhere there is no snow right now, and because you can't go riding, you spend your time on here all aggressive like fighting over which snowboard gear is better. Seriously who cares? You either like something or you don't. If you need a group of people to make up every decision for you in life, then good for you... acept it, you can't make your own decisions in life.

Equipment reviews are great, but in reality you really can't make a good decision about something without your own experience, as everyone thinks differently, which means your experience with the same product could be different from another persons experience.

These are two completely different snowboard binding designs. I would say comparing th K2 Cinch with the Flow design would be more appropriate. Unions are basic, two strap bindings, nothing more, nothing less. They are strong, comfortable, and have good designs that work and allow you to snowboard... but then again, Flow has also acheived this.. a binding system that allows you to snowboard.

Choose a brand, strap in, and go ride... or I guess you could spend your winter arguing with people you probably don't even know. How productive is that?


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## Leo

Jaax, you have a great point. The thing is, there are people who came in here to talk about Unions and Flows who have experience riding in them. Then there are some who came in here just to bash Flows. People who have not even stepped into a pair. This is what the argument is about. It is not about which brand is superior. Well, at least not on my end.

You are right though, I have no snow here and it is very boring. I won't deny that this is occupying my time, albeit with a smile on my face.

I love to ride and I love to do it with equipment that makes ME happy. Hell, if Lamar ever makes a board I like, I'd ride that too.

Flows and Unions are very different and I am sure that is the exact reason that the OP started this thread. He wants to purchase one binding and is having a tough time deciding between the two very different ones.


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## ATOTony76

> Besides, Union is just selling gimmicks to bandwagoners. Flows have never been hyped or trendy! They were never the latest thing that was once considered the most innovative thing to happen to snowboarding and a revolution in binding philosophy when they first came out. Union is trendy because they sponsor so many big name pro riders and are just hype whereas Flow doesn't sponsor any famous riders...who's Lago or Autti? Never heard of those noobs. Flows are popular among some people because they've been reliable, lightweight, and streamlined since day one. Everyone else is just a moronic hater.


BANDWAGONS!!!!!! FUCKING BANDWAGONS!!!!!! WTF!!?????????

Flows can't touch Unions with a 10ft pole. This isn't a bandwagon my friend, its a solid, solid group of riders riding heaven below their feet. 

BTW, Whos Lago or Autti? Having you been living under a rock for the past 5 years??? You obviously havn't had the Union experience yet and don't know anything about snowboarding. 

Lago
Autti


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## Leo

I think you guys missed the point of Triple's post. He was being majorly Sarcastic.

And again, you take the term bandwagon as negative. Why do people do that? 

Bandwagon: a party, cause, movement, etc., that by its *mass appeal or strength* readily attracts many followers

Union Bindings: Has mass appeal and is very strong (from what everyone says)

Therefore, you are part of the bandwagon. It's not negative bro. Chillax. I hopped on the Flow bandwagon a few years back and I have not stepped off yet lol.

Flow not being able to touch Union is your opinion. Don't hate on those who like Flows. We're all snowboarders here regardless of what we ride.


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## MunkySpunk

jaaxnikols said:


> You guys must live somewhere there is no snow right now, and because you can't go riding, you spend your time on here all aggressive like fighting over which snowboard gear is better. Seriously who cares? You either like something or you don't.


Wrong and right. I am trying to keep the OP, who no doubt has long since stopped reading this thread, from getting their head filled with misinformation from people who just want to bash a brand and who have never actually even used the product they're bashing. Other idiots here are giving such intelligent assessments as 'Flow is for gays'.


> Choose a brand, strap in, and go ride... or I guess you could spend your winter arguing with people you probably don't even know. How productive is that?


Yes Daddy. Don't you have something better to do than play mother goose to folks on the forum yourself? 

It's not productive, but as it's already been stated, it's counter-productive to let this half-informed bullshit brand bashing push people away from bindings they might otherwise enjoy if they were given real advice from people who have used the product. Which is no doubt what the OP was looking for. 

I've used Flows. I like mine. I'm not going to sit there and let the OP get told they suck by folks who have never strapped on a pair and are just pretty certain they would suck if they used them.


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## hanzosteel

seems to me there is nothing special about union. they keep your feet attached to your board, they do not fall apart while you ride and they do not hurt your feet. but same could be said for a dozen other binding makers. what makes them so special? they're durable with a lifetime warranty on their baseplates? - it's a five yr old company, c'mon, give me a break, ride and k2 have been doing the job for decades (even flow has been around longer and companies who make crap don't survive long in this fickle market). they're comfortable and flexy in all the right places - are you telling me rome, k2 and ride bindings aren't - doesn't this depend on your boot, foot size, riding stlye, etc.? they look sick - well, my d. kass datas actually do look like someone puked on them. 

you like the fit and feel of straps and rocking your toe strap over the end of your boot - buy union cause everyone else here is (but there are other, ahem, better, options, cough, rome!, cough), but it's more important to get a binding that suits your riding style - stiff or flexy or middle of the road. you want quick entry/exit - buy flows, but again, it's more important to get the model that meets your needs. 

peace. (of shit)


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## rgrwilco

hanzosteel said:


> buy union cause everyone else here is (but there are other, ahem, better, options, cough, rome!, cough),
> peace. (of shit)


i used to be on romes nuts, swore by 390's. tried my friends forces about 3 years ago, and now i ride union (and ride)


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## Triple8Sol

My last post was purely exaggerted sarcasm. If it went over anyone's head...then nevermind. Anyways, I welcome debate, since that's part of what this forum is for, as long as it doesn't get personal and downward spiral into immature namecalling.

Look, there are plenty of people out there that like/love Flows, and that's fine. These people are used to hearing their beloved bindings bashed on left/right, and are understandably vocal in their defense. On the flip side, there are tons of people that hate them for a wide variety of reasons. Same goes for any other binding on the market, albeit not necessarily to the same degree when looking at percentages. Now stfu and go ride...if you have snow yet


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## jaaxnikols

*.*



MunkySpunk said:


> Wrong and right. I am trying to keep the OP, who no doubt has long since stopped reading this thread, from getting their head filled with misinformation from people who just want to bash a brand and who have never actually even used the product they're bashing. Other idiots here are giving such intelligent assessments as 'Flow is for gays'.Yes Daddy. Don't you have something better to do than play mother goose to folks on the forum yourself?
> 
> It's not productive, but as it's already been stated, it's counter-productive to let this half-informed bullshit brand bashing push people away from bindings they might otherwise enjoy if they were given real advice from people who have used the product. Which is no doubt what the OP was looking for.
> 
> I've used Flows. I like mine. I'm not going to sit there and let the OP get told they suck by folks who have never strapped on a pair and are just pretty certain they would suck if they used them.


I'm a 24 yr old female, so I don't think I'll ever get the opportunity to be a daddy any time soon. I'm only replying to these threads because I'm super bored at work and have nothing better to do. I've riden both Flow and Union bindings, as have some close friends, so I could have written about that, but instead I thought i'd try and mention how unintelligent these very biased immature comments are, and maybe those people will read what they wrote and realize how stupid it sounds... though I guess the same could probably be said about what I have written? whatever


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## Guest

I moved from Flows to Union last season, after 2 seasons of Flows, and it was the best move ever. 
I feel I have more control with a toe strap.


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## MunkySpunk

Triple8Sol said:


> Look, there are plenty of people out there that like/love Flows, and that's fine. These people are used to hearing their beloved bindings bashed on left/right, and are understandably vocal in their defense.


You're right, there's plenty of folks on this thread who have USED Flows, Unions, or both, and nobody's objecting to their well formed opinions based on actual experience instead of 'I heard they suck', 'They look like they suck', or my favorite comments that link inanimate objects to homosexuality. Roger Ebert doesn't send his friends in to watch a movie for him and then tell him about it so he can write the review. The moral is if you're going to shovel bullshit around, someone may eventually point you that you're building up a big pile of bullshit. Welcome to Earth. Get used to it.


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## jmacphee9

same thing with every flow topic that comes up. you get a top of the line pair your getting a good binding, you get a mid or low end binding your getting a shitty brick of a binding. i love my nxts..


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## Leo

On a lighter note, I just received these babies.









Never realized that NXTs come with a base plate cover for the mounting disc. No more pesky snow icing up inside the holes lol. I'm loving the new ratchet system. Much easier to set up and the I-Flex strap is awesome and so far seems like it will be very close to the traditional strap feel that I was looking for. Can't wait to actually ride it now. 

BTW, the gold isn't as shiny as it is in the picture. They must have blasted the lights on that lol. Still a very sexy gold.


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## Leo

jmacphee9 said:


> same thing with every flow topic that comes up. you get a top of the line pair *you're* getting a good binding, you get a mid or low end binding *you're* getting a shitty brick of a binding. i love my nxts..


I bolded and corrected *your* misuse of the word *you're*. Not to be a dick or anything, just a personal peeve of mine lol.

It comes up in every Flow thread because it is true. Another huge reason why it comes up? Flow users openly admit it. Every company is like that. I have not seen one company that puts out quality shit at every price point. Except Lib Tech, but they don't count since their selection is limited and their price points barely fluctuate. Look at Union, people support it like crazy, but you only hear about two of their bindings.

An honest review of a company should entail a review of both the good and the bad. When people only talk about the good, something has to give.

Big reason why *I* constantly talk about the bad Flows... The Flite series. Almost purely made out of plastic.


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## MunkySpunk

Leo said:


> Never realized that NXTs come with a base plate cover for the mounting disc. No more pesky snow icing up inside the holes lol. I'm loving the new ratchet system.


I'll be honest, I leave the base plate covers off of mine. It's a pain in the ass when you need to make adjustments or tighten screws down on the hill. If a screw head is too frozen over to get the bit into... well, I just work up a good loogey for it.


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## Leo

MunkySpunk said:


> I'll be honest, I leave the base plate covers off of mine. It's a pain in the ass when you need to make adjustments or tighten screws down on the hill. If a screw head is too frozen over to get the bit into... well, I just work up a good loogey for it.


LoL! Yea, I heard people say that. I figured it is more of a pain to wipe all that snow in the plate than to loosen one extra screw to get to the mount. We'll see how it plays out. I'll probably leave it off until I dial in my final setting then ride with it on.


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## matttehman

Well, I can provide first hand experience. Last season I rode the 09 NXT-AT's on a GNU RC MTX. I also had the chance to ride a Burton Deuce with Burton Custom bindings , and a Burton Dominant with Burton Freestyle bindings. I am a noob and didn't notice much difference at all really, between the bindings at least.

The toestrap is nice, and some people are real into that, however the toe strap didn't really fit my boot well, so make sure to match your boots to your toestrap/bindings. But the Flows straps were much more comfortable.

I read all 8 pages prior to this and did not see a single mention of the comfort of these bindings. In fact, many people who ride Flows do so because of a comfort level recommendation. I do not personally suffer from foot pain, but those who do swear by the Flows.

Once again, if you buy Flows buy last season's or this season's higher end models(NXT-AT,NXT-ATSE,NXT-FRX,M9,M9SE,M11,NXT-FSE,FLow-Team)

Btw, Sierra has four large Flow-teams in stock at $125!

I say grab one of those and run!


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## Leo

The only thing I don't like about the Teams are that they are notorious for having screws break in the highback. But for $125, I'd buy it and just call Flow right away for an extra set of bolts and screws.


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## jmacphee9

Leo said:


> LoL! Yea, I heard people say that. I figured it is more of a pain to wipe all that snow in the plate than to loosen one extra screw to get to the mount. We'll see how it plays out. I'll probably leave it off until I dial in my final setting then ride with it on.


thank your for going through all the effort to proof read my online forum post. ill send you my papers next time.:thumbsup:


i dont use my cover either...i adjust my angles too much and ended up stripping the screw lol.


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## Triple8Sol

MunkySpunk said:


> You're right, there's plenty of folks on this thread who have USED Flows, Unions, or both, and nobody's objecting to their well formed opinions based on actual experience instead of 'I heard they suck', 'They look like they suck', or my favorite comments that link inanimate objects to homosexuality. Roger Ebert doesn't send his friends in to watch a movie for him and then tell him about it so he can write the review. The moral is if you're going to shovel bullshit around, someone may eventually point you that you're building up a big pile of bullshit. Welcome to Earth. Get used to it.


My experience with Flows is deeper than "they look like" or "I heard" but it's not worth repeating yet again, so you can continue to play spin doctor to the masses.


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## Gardner

I'm a Flow fan. I've been riding them for years and I love them to bits. I just bought a new pair of M9s which I am looking forward to riding. My old flows have the non-ratchet locking strap thing, and while it took a run or two to get dialed in, I never had any serious difficulty.

When I ride straps I find I get a different random setting a notch or two one way or the other on every run. While not a show stopper, I like the effortless consistency of the Flows. And the comfort. I'd like to try K2 Cinch bindings, but haven't had the chance.

My wife skis and I could NEVER keep up with her if I didn't ride Flows, or something equally quick to get into.

I would recommend to anyone to at least try them for a day.


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## MunkySpunk

Triple8Sol said:


> My experience with Flows is deeper than "they look like" or "I heard" but it's not worth repeating yet again, so you can continue to play spin doctor to the masses.


Yes, I know that. I'm flattered you think the post was meant only for you. I realize you've stated you're also familiar with how the the ratchets work from a model you can't recall from a year you can't recall while they were on another person. Deep. :laugh:



Gardner said:


> My wife skis and I could NEVER keep up with her if I didn't ride Flows, or something equally quick to get into.


Grounds for divorce.


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## Leo

Gardner said:


> My wife skis and I could NEVER keep up with her if I didn't ride Flows, or something equally quick to get into.





MunkySpunk said:


> Grounds for divorce.


Dammit Munky. I need to hang out with you. Something tells me I'll walk away with ripped abs from laughing too much.


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## kansasboy

I bought some Flow bindings 2 seasons ago..one of the front straps broke the 2nd day..within a month I was riding binding held together by zip ties. last season i bought Union Data and fell in love with them imediately. I weigh 215 and put a lot of stress on my equipment, but the unions hold great. Quality-wise, I would go with unions..they're great


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## Guest

i bought the flows nxt-at's and returned them for union data's. i thought flows were the easiest around. union makes shit just as easy as flows. takes me 10 seconds to strap in. as opposed to going toeside and then 3 sec.


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## surfinsnow

kansasboy said:


> I bought some Flow bindings 2 seasons ago..one of the front straps broke the 2nd day..within a month I was riding binding held together by zip ties.


Which Flows? Their low-end bindings are cheaply made and should be avoided. The NXT line is pretty sweet, imho. I have the NXT FRX and love them. My only real complaint is that the highback can't be folded flat like with traditional bindings. This makes them awkward to transport sometimes, but no deal breaker. One thing is obvious reading all the Flow posts...people seem to either love them or hate them. Doesn't seem to be much in-between.


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## bryantp

*Flow bindings*

I've used Flow bindings for 5 years now. I ride at least 30 days a year - sometimes 40. I weighed 252 when I started...now down to a svelte 230...sometimes even 220. I ride Hokkaido powder among other places and I only ride groom to get somewhere else. I use NXTs. A few years ago, Flow recalled...eerrr, improved the nut holding the front straps in. That was a major problem. The fix was free. Other than normal wear and tear, I've had no other issues.

I've taught classes using lower end Flow gear and observed them in heavy rental use for the group I taught for. For beginners, the gear was fine although I wouldn't recommend it for more demanding riders. Their top gear is really good. 

That doesn't mean Flow (or Union or anyone else) is for everyone. But, if you haven't ridden them, you don't know.

I'm also amazed to hear that I can't get out of my Flows in deep powder. Living in Japan, I get a bit of deep powder and haven't had any big problems. Go figure. I must be doing something wrong ;-)???


----------



## kevq

I finally got to try out my first pair of Flows today (2010 Flow Quattro's). Previously I had used traditional strap-in bindings (Burtons), but after the first hour of twiddling with the bindings left and right, I have to say that the bindings are amazing. I'm a first year podiatry student, so I tend to analyze the biomechanics of my legs and feet. Usually after a full day of riding, my foot aches from the pressure points of traditional strap-ins (especially on the lift, even with my free foot under the board for support), but after 6 hours of boarding, I have nothing to complain about. My feet and legs felt fine even with dangling my board from the lift. As for responsiveness, I'm getting the same response as my other set of bindings. I realize that this is just a mid-end model, but these bindings have me sold on flow. Can't beat same performance, no pressure points, and speed.


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## bryantp

*Flow believer*

Many years ago, I worked as an orthotist. Flows approach to dissipating pressure over a larger area meets much of the criteria we sought. I get it.


----------



## MunkySpunk

kansasboy said:


> Quality-wise, I would go with unions..they're great


Just watch out for the baseplate failures. :laugh:



gatorheel said:


> i bought the flows nxt-at's and returned them for union data's. i thought flows were the easiest around. union makes shit just as easy as flows. takes me 10 seconds to strap in. as opposed to going toeside and then 3 sec.


I hope you were able to figure out how to put the disc in the baseplate, the screws through the disc, and turn the screw to mount them to your board with the Unions? I know that complex and intricate dance of man and machine had you all confused when it came to the Flows and you blamed the company for it. :laugh:



kevq said:


> I finally got to try out my first pair of Flows today (2010 Flow Quattro's). Previously I had used traditional strap-in bindings (Burtons), but after the first hour of twiddling with the bindings left and right, I have to say that the bindings are amazing. I'm a first year podiatry student, so I tend to analyze the biomechanics of my legs and feet. Usually after a full day of riding, my foot aches from the pressure points of traditional strap-ins (especially on the lift, even with my free foot under the board for support), but after 6 hours of boarding, I have nothing to complain about. My feet and legs felt fine even with dangling my board from the lift. As for responsiveness, I'm getting the same response as my other set of bindings. I realize that this is just a mid-end model, but these bindings have me sold on flow. Can't beat same performance, no pressure points, and speed.


Wait'll you step into the NXT's. Got my wife a pair of used-twice 2009 Prima's (woman's NXT) for her birthday and she is absolutely in love with them. They look pretty sick too. :thumbsup:


----------



## neednsnow

bryantp said:


> I'm also amazed to hear that I can't get out of my Flows in deep powder. Living in Japan, I get a bit of deep powder and haven't had any big problems. Go figure. I must be doing something wrong ;-)???


Word! I've had some multi-feet days in the snow and I've had no problem with the flows. No different than strap-ins, you just need to get the snow out of the footstrap....easy enough. Just get em dialed-in and you're set, snap in and snap out. As for people talking about weight......my god, come on. The difference in weight for the bindings is like the difference between one beer and two beers in your belly! Lastly, the highbacks do lay flat, you just need to remove the foot strap. Indicate where, on the strap, is the best setting for your riding with a little paint and you'll always be ablet to get your bindings dialed back in, quickly.


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## surfinsnow

neednsnow, thanks for the info! I'm heading out to Tahoe for two weeks, starting next Thursday, and I was debating whether or not to even bring them with me. I can't imagine having to go back to my old K2 strap-ins after these top-o-line Flows, but I couldn't figure out how to easily transport them, or if I'd have trouble with them at places like Kirkwood, where I've had to strap in while perched on the edge of some crazy bowl with a 30 mph wind blowing in my face. I think you've helped me make my decision.


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## Wiredsport

If you have top of the line flow bindings, they can be released and eneterred exactly like a conventional strap binding. Just completely release the two ratchets on the outside of your foot via the quick releases and enter as you would with any strap in binding. This functionality will be present on EVERY flow model next year except for a single budget model at the bottom of the Flow line. The powder issue was always heavily trumped up, but going forward, there will be no issue left to discuss.


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## Leo

So Flow will completely move the the SE system from this year? I'm very stoked about that. It's about damn time.


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## Wiredsport

Hi Leo,

Here is the funny thing about the SE system. It actually reduces the options on a Flow binding (in comparison to the other high end models). The SE has preset adjustment points on the inside and conventional releasable ratchets on the outside. The other high end bindings have conventional releasable ratchets on both the inside and outside. That is to say that all of the high end models have been fully releasable like a conventional binding, but the models with 4 ratchets have had the additional benefit of micro adjustability on the inside (the possible positions on the SE's on the inside are seperated by about 1 cm). Flow developed the fixed side / ratchet side setup on the SE to answer the incorrect perception that conventional access was not available. In other words, they made a binding in the exact configuration of a conventional binding. 

I think that Flow's only mistake was in communicating this to users. The capability has already been there on many models and it will be on the entire line next year with only one exception.


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## phile00

This thread is frustrating. I think people that haven't personally ridden a NEWER pair of flows should not weigh in on the discussion. Personally, I will never make a negative comment on gear that I haven't tried out for myself, and given a fair shake. I feel that's the most reasonable and unbiased approach.

Bindings I've ridden: 2003 Burton Freestyle bindings, 2006 Flow Pro S-FS, 2009 Flow NXT-AT, 2009 K2 Autos, 2010 Ride Nitrane Contrabands.

Both Flows were/are reliable, comfortable, stable, and responsive. My NXT-ATs are actually very light. I'm pretty sure they're as light (or within a couple of ounces) as my k2 Autos. Most people don't realize that the higher end Flow bindings are actually light weight. Also, I've never had a problem with the high back coming down on either of my Flows, and as someone else said, some of the newer bindings give you traditional strap in (from side to side) as well as rear entry. I love the misconception that strapping in with Flows in pow is so hard. I managed just fine. "OMG these bindings are distorting the time space continuum, my feet are slipping into another dimension!" haha  I swear sometimes people just repeat what they hear, despite the fact that they've never used a pair.

As far as Unions go, I've strapped into some Cadets at a store but never ridden them. What I can say is that they seemed like a sturdy, lightweight binding with good flex. I'm sure the same is true on the hill, and they usually have great reviews.


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## phile00

Wiredsport said:


> Hi Leo,
> 
> Here is the funny thing about the SE system. It actually reduces the options on a Flow binding (in comparison to the other high end models). The SE has preset adjustment points on the inside and conventional releasable ratchets on the outside. The other high end bindings have conventional releasable ratchets on both the inside and outside.


I was thinking of this as well. It seems like the 4 points of micro adjustability are great. Why regress? I'm sure there's a solution in there that makes them open more like a traditional binding (for times where that's necessary?) without moving entirely to the SE system. Looks like it's too late though.


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## Wiredsport

phile00 said:


> I was thinking of this as well. It seems like the 4 points of micro adjustability are great. Why regress? I'm sure there's a solution in there that makes them open more like a traditional binding (for times where that's necessary?) without moving entirely to the SE system. Looks like it's too late though.


I may not have explained well. The bindings with 4 points of micro adjustability and the bindings with two points (the SE models) can all open exactly like a traditional binding. On both styles you can get in without ever lowering the highback. That is why the "powder issue" is a misconception. You can just use the outside ratchets just like you do with any conventional bindings. Additionally, most Flow riders will tell you that they never need to do that. Once you are used to it, you can kick in anywhere. Either way, the option is there.

To be clear, Flow is advancing both the 4 ratchet systems and the SE systems into 2011. The change is that these two systems will now go much further down the line, with only one model not having them.


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## jputtho2

Wiredsport said:


> I may not have explained well. The bindings with 4 points of micro adjustability and the bindings with two points (the SE models) can all open exactly like a traditional binding. On both styles you can get in without ever lowering the highback. That is why the "powder issue" is a misconception. You can just use the outside ratchets just like you do with any conventional bindings. Additionally, most Flow riders will tell you that they never need to do that. Once you are used to it, you can kick in anywhere. Either way, the option is there.
> 
> To be clear, Flow is advancing both the 4 ratchet systems and the SE systems into 2011. The change is that these two systems will now go much further down the line, with only one model not having them.


I have the 2010 NXT AT-SE's and they rock. You may have stated it already but I was informed through Flow that the reasoning for the deletion of the inner ratchets was to reduce weight with the SE's also note the outer ratchets have reduced material compared to the standard AT's. I can see it as a lost feature however really it's such a minute thing who cares. The difference between a notch on the micro's and the non-micro is roughly half a cm so it's hardly noticeable if at all. The biggest effect is ease and speed of adjustment. 

Anyway, I can vouch for them being light weight. I need to weigh my shit but my parkstar 157 with the ATSE's is suuuuper light and it's very noiceable riding. .


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## phile00

Wiredsport said:


> To be clear, Flow is advancing both the 4 ratchet systems and the SE systems into 2011. The change is that these two systems will now go much further down the line, with only one model not having them.


Ohh, that's the part I didn't get. I knew you could strap in using the sides. I'm glad they're advancing the 4 ratchet system as well.


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## Guest

Get Union Force.. I think it's the way to go as for I have one my self.. Union Force MC is pretty forgiving, the high back is also flexy


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## Guest

Unions hands down. Hope this doesn't piss off any fan boys but flows are crap until you get into the higher price brackets. Union is making the best bindings on the market rite now in my opinion

'10 union contacts
'10 union forces


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## surfinsnow

Shrox said:


> Unions hands down. Hope this doesn't piss off any fan boys but flows are crap until you get into the higher price brackets. Union is making the best bindings on the market rite now in my opinion
> 
> '10 union contacts
> '10 union forces


Wow...read what you wrote...*"Flows are crap until you get into the higher price brackets."* Isn't that what everyone else on this thread has said? *Don't buy cheap Flows!* That doesn't make your faves "the best binding on the market," it just makes them your favorites! This isn't a fan boy talking...I could give a rat's ass...I just know that Flows don't deserve the bad rap that people like you give them just because you can't afford the good ones.


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## Guest

surfinsnow said:


> Wow...read what you wrote...*"Flows are crap until you get into the higher price brackets."* Isn't that what everyone else on this thread has said? *Don't buy cheap Flows!* That doesn't make your faves "the best binding on the market," it just makes them your favorites! This isn't a fan boy talking...I could give a rat's ass...I just know that Flows don't deserve the bad rap that people like you give them just because you can't afford the good ones.


True, true.. You can't be bias about a product because you like them.. But anyways, go with what you like.


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## SchultzLS2

surfinsnow said:


> Wow...read what you wrote...*"Flows are crap until you get into the higher price brackets."* Isn't that what everyone else on this thread has said? *Don't buy cheap Flows!* That doesn't make your faves "the best binding on the market," it just makes them your favorites! This isn't a fan boy talking...I could give a rat's ass...I just know that Flows don't deserve the bad rap that people like you give them just because you can't afford the good ones.


You shouldn't have to spend $400 to get a decent binding. I have ridden Flows and I choose to never ride them again. 

Thats like saying....Burton makes GREAT boards, its called the Method, but all you cheap asses just can't afford it. Thats just dumb. From entry level to top shelf a good company should make a good product. The only differences in the price should be the tech on the item getting better.


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## MunkySpunk

:dunno: Mine were $140. Wife's $120. Both NXT series. Don't know where you're shopping.


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## surfinsnow

SchultzLS2 said:


> You shouldn't have to spend $400 to get a decent binding. I have ridden Flows and I choose to never ride them again.
> 
> Thats like saying....Burton makes GREAT boards, its called the Method, but all you cheap asses just can't afford it. Thats just dumb. From entry level to top shelf a good company should make a good product. The only differences in the price should be the tech on the item getting better.


You're 100% right. Which is why I didn't spend anywhere close to $400 for my NXT FRX Flows. Top-o-line freeride bindings and they didn't come close to $400, even at peak season, not closeout. If you're spending that much on whatever you're smokin, no wonder you feel ripped off.

.


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## B.Gilly

Actually very interested in Flow and figure I will be getting a pair sooner or later to play on. Small mountains in my area and no need to worry about powder day issues for the most part. Local hill has a spot right after you get off the chair lift that on slow snow days you might have to skate 200 yards or so so might be a nice setup to have.

Not so interested in Union myself. 

Most price points have issues no matter what company you buy from. They are cheaper for a reason.

I do not mind paying full retail either. Heck I bought my board this year in July when they became available. Saving $100 bucks or so just does not matter to me. That is just a personal belief but works for me. I like not wanting something and having to wait till it goes on sale. Season here pretty much ends when close outs are in full swing.


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## linvillegorge

BG, curious to hear why you're not into Union? I've heard almost all positive things. I'm also sending you a PM?


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## SchultzLS2

MunkySpunk said:


> :dunno: Mine were $140. Wife's $120. Both NXT series. Don't know where you're shopping.





surfinsnow said:


> You're 100% right. Which is why I didn't spend anywhere close to $400 for my NXT FRX Flows. Top-o-line freeride bindings and they didn't come close to $400, even at peak season, not closeout. If you're spending that much on whatever you're smokin, no wonder you feel ripped off.
> 
> .


OK guys, sorry I exaggerated a little bit but as I recall if it's not on closeout anything NXT is minimum $280 retail. I was just using the number to make an example since I know there are some $350 NXT bindings.

Same point though.


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## mikez

Can't comment on the Flows, but I have no complaints about the '09 Forces (except I want the lime green '10 Forces!). Solid binding.


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## MunkySpunk

SchultzLS2 said:


> OK guys, sorry I exaggerated a little bit but as I recall if it's not on closeout anything NXT is minimum $280 retail. I was just using the number to make an example since I know there are some $350 NXT bindings.
> 
> Same point though.


You exaggerated more than a little. Why don't we try and keep this ACCURATE for those looking for ACCURATE INFORMATION? If you want to Fanboy bindings by blowing shit all out of proportion, then make your own topic.

And the retail on Union Force and Union Data bindings that all these Kool-Aiders blindly push here?

Oh well.... look at that. Same price range. And I didn't even have to exaggerate. :dunno:


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## SchultzLS2

MunkySpunk said:


> You exaggerated more than a little. Why don't we try and keep this ACCURATE for those looking for ACCURATE INFORMATION? If you want to Fanboy bindings by blowing shit all out of proportion, then make your own topic.
> 
> And the retail on Union Force and Union Data bindings that all these Kool-Aiders blindly push here?
> 
> Oh well.... look at that. Same price range. And I didn't even have to exaggerate. :dunno:


Ha the point was that you said people only didn't like Flow's because they couldn't afford the top of the line ones. My point was that you shouldn't have to pay $250+ for a binding that you like.


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## JediMindGamez

> My point was that you shouldn't have to pay $250+ for a binding that you like.


Thats capitalism. I like cars, one of my favorite cars is a Ferrari F40. Are you going to tell one of the 399 F40 owners in the world not to sell his F40 for a million plus because I shouldn't have to spend more then a million dollars for a car that i like?


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## neednsnow

JediMindGamez said:


> Thats capitalism. I like cars, one of my favorite cars is a Ferrari F40. Are you going to tell one of the 399 F40 owners in the world not to sell his F40 for a million plus because I shouldn't have to spend more then a million dollars for a car that i like?


A car (binding) that is totally Kick-ass and soooooo worth the money, if you've got it!


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## SchultzLS2

Your still missing it. I don't mean that the expensive bindings can't be totally awesome and worth every penny. They may be the Ferrari of bindings, but if the high ends are that good then the low end ones should be more like Maserati's and not Ford Pinto's.

I'm sayin it shouldn't be all or nothin. You should be able to spend $150 and get a comfortable pair of bindings. They may not have all the bells and whistles but they still get the job done well.

And in my experience with Flow's... the low ends were the most painful thing I have ever strapped into. They are a couple years old now and I'm sure the M9's or NXT series can be great, but I'm not willing to spend the money to try them out and since none of my friends ride them... I don't have anything to change my mind.


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## Guest

I wouldn't ride flow's if I won them in a raffle in which I had a free ticket.


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## MunkySpunk

SchultzLS2 said:


> Your still missing it. I don't mean that the expensive bindings can't be totally awesome and worth every penny. They may be the Ferrari of bindings, but if the high ends are that good then the low end ones should be more like Maserati's and not Ford Pinto's.
> 
> I'm sayin it shouldn't be all or nothin. You should be able to spend $150 and get a comfortable pair of bindings. They may not have all the bells and whistles but they still get the job done well.
> 
> And in my experience with Flow's... the low ends were the most painful thing I have ever strapped into. They are a couple years old now and I'm sure the M9's or NXT series can be great, but I'm not willing to spend the money to try them out and since none of my friends ride them... I don't have anything to change my mind.


And once again, I paid $150 for my NXT-AT's and $120 for the wife's Prima's. I don't know what kind of a sucker you are when it comes to shopping, but I really didn't have to search too hard to find them at that price. 

I don't know, maybe you're just better at math than the average Joe, but if I've got $150 to spend on bindings and I can land a set of $250 retail bindings for it, I'll go for it over the set of $150 bindings at full retail. :dunno:

But if you're point was to knock $250 bindings discussed in this thread, my point was to inform you that you forgot to knock Union Force and Union Datas, they are in the same price range.


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## SchultzLS2

MunkySpunk said:


> And once again, I paid $150 for my NXT-AT's and $120 for the wife's Prima's. I don't know what kind of a sucker you are when it comes to shopping, but I really didn't have to search too hard to find them at that price.
> 
> I don't know, maybe you're just better at math than the average Joe, but if I've got $150 to spend on bindings and I can land a set of $250 retail bindings for it, I'll go for it over the set of $150 bindings at full retail. :dunno:
> 
> But if you're point was to knock $250 bindings discussed in this thread, my point was to inform you that you forgot to knock Union Force and Union Datas, they are in the same price range.


You can't argue based on a sale price. We are talking about what most people pay for them...retail. All I was saying is that Flow's only "good binding" as you say is the higher end ones. You shouldn't have to buy a high end binding to be comfortable. Simple as that.


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## kevq

SchultzLS2 said:


> You can't argue based on a sale price. We are talking about what most people pay for them...retail. All I was saying is that Flow's only "good binding" as you say is the higher end ones. You shouldn't have to buy a high end binding to be comfortable. Simple as that.


I don't know how well high end Flows perform, but I have the Quattro's which are their mid-range bindings, and I'm perfectly happy with them.


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## neednsnow

SchultzLS2 said:


> Your still missing it. I don't mean that the expensive bindings can't be totally awesome and worth every penny. They may be the Ferrari of bindings, but if the high ends are that good then the low end ones should be more like Maserati's and not Ford Pinto's.


Woah, Maserati=Low End.....ok I am missing this argument. I'm out!


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## SchultzLS2

neednsnow said:


> Woah, Maserati=Low End.....ok I am missing this argument. I'm out!


In case you didn't know a Maserati is made by Ferrari....therefore....it is the cheaper version of a Ferrari.


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## neednsnow

SchultzLS2 said:


> In case you didn't know a Maserati is made by Ferrari....therefore....it is the cheaper version of a Ferrari.


I was lost with the whole Maserati Being low-end, but if you are setting the Standard at Ferrari, then Right on. So Flows are the Ferrari of the snowboard binding world.....I'm in. They just need build their Maserati (M-series) class. I totally agree.


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## Guest

Unions are ok, but definitely hyped. I just ordered this year's Forces and for all the hype they get they sure are a boring, unresponsive, and uncomfortable binding. They don't even come close to touching my Autos.

I've never ridden Flows but my dad has them and likes them. Meanwhile I'll be sending my Unions back, ugh.


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## Guest

SchultzLS2 said:


> In case you didn't know a Maserati is made by Ferrari....therefore....it is the cheaper version of a Ferrari.


No, Ferrari *owned* Maserati 5 years ago. Now they're owned by Alfa Rameo under the Fiat group.

A better analogy would've been VW to Audi, or Chevy to Cadillac.


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## SchultzLS2

lol I'm so done with this thread. Just try the damn bindings and buy what you like. There are multiple companys and models because not everything is for everybody. 100 people can tell you Flow rocks but you might put them on and hate life or vice versa with Union. Just because its somebody else's preference doesn't mean it will be yours.

Good Luck.


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## MunkySpunk

SchultzLS2 said:


> lol I'm so done with this thread. Just try the damn bindings and buy what you like. There are multiple companys and models because not everything is for everybody. 100 people can tell you Flow rocks but you might put them on and hate life or vice versa with Union. Just because its somebody else's preference doesn't mean it will be yours.
> 
> Good Luck.


Wow.. It only took you four or five posts and a lot of blithering stupidity about Italian cars to tell us what everyone already knows. Thank you good citizen!! We are in your debt!


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## Leo

SchultzLS2 said:


> You can't argue based on a sale price. We are talking about what most people pay for them...retail. All I was saying is that Flow's only "good binding" as you say is the higher end ones. You shouldn't have to buy a high end binding to be comfortable. Simple as that.


That's funny, I work in a company that sells everything from snowboards to kayaks. The bulk of our sales come from closeouts and sales. Most people do not pay retail.

By the way, out of all the vendors that I met with at the test fest, the Flow and K2 people were the nicest and most knowledgeable. Plus they were super helpful with spare screws.

Funny, the Burton tent all laughed when I said I hate their bindings and they saw that I had Flows. Guess what? I rode two of their 2011 Cartel bindings and both times the toe straps came loose. My Flows didn't cause me one single problem even after swapping them on and off of 20 of the 32 boards that I tested.

I had problems with Burton's and Ride's bindings. To be fair, the Burton Infidel's were easily the most comfortable bindings at the show and the Ride SPI's were absolutely sick for shredding all-mountain.

On a side note, I was correct in assuming that everyone is going to mistake my gold NXT-FSEs for the 24 reals. Now I know why the Burton Tent was laughing at me when they saw my Flows. What do I expect though? They couldn't even figure out how to mount their own bindings with conversion plates for their ICS boards. 20 minutes to mount one of the boards I tested. Ridiculous.

Equally funny was the vendors that were worried about unstrapping my Flows thinking I would have a bitch of a time setting them up. They were impressed when they saw me strap my SE Flows in like any other binding. Click click and run. Easy peezy. I told the Flow guys to implement the SE system to all their bindings next year. We'll see. 

EDIT: Funny how Unions are so popular right now, yet nobody ever even touched them when they were called DRAKES. Right, different company. All they did was paint them green and everybody hopped on their penis.


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## Guest

I bought the Union Forces two years ago when they were first getting started, haven't looked back since. Great support, the back is not too high, just an enjoyable ride. I haven't had good experiences with Flows, but if you like that...

Just get what you want, as long as you're ripping on the mountain


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## redlude97

Leo said:


> I had problems with Burton's and Ride's bindings. To be fair, the Burton Infidel's were easily the most comfortable bindings at the show and the Ride SPI's were absolutely sick for shredding all-mountain.


What was your problem with the Ride's?


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## phile00

I love my flows. It's so funny getting off the lift, throwing my foot in the back and taking off ahead of people who got off the lift 10 chairs ago. I just got a pair of Flux Feedbacks. I think this is my last attempt at trying out traditional two strap bindings.


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## Guest

You cant go wrong with UNION Forces. the baseplate absorbs alot of impact and the straps all work great


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## Leo

redlude97 said:


> What was your problem with the Ride's?


Well, I ran into an issue with Ride's ratchets. Same problem that I had a few years ago with them. The toe strap ratchet broke, keeping me from tightening them properly. To be fair, it was the EXs that gave me problems. The Delta, Alpha, and Spi were all great bindings. Ride LX, EX gave me the problems.

Hey WeRunDP, where were you when Drakes were around? I bet you thought those bindings sucked 

You want a binding that absorbs a lot of impact? Try the Ride Delta or any of the Burton EST bindings. That's shock absorption.


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## MunkySpunk

WeRunDp said:


> You cant go wrong with UNION Forces. the baseplate absorbs alot of impact and the straps all work great


This is sarcasm, right? :dunno:


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