# Is it time for a more rigid boot?



## Donutz (May 12, 2010)

Even with flexible boots, I'd be surprised if you're noticing that much more effort doing toeside turns. My immediate reaction is that your boots aren't centered or your board is too wide. Don't assume the store's installer got it right.

I've got a pair of stiff Thirty-Two Focus boots and some soft Ride Lasso's. The difference I find with the softer boots is that I get a lot more feedback from the board in rough conditions.


----------



## Varza (Jan 6, 2013)

Are you feeling the boot flex, or is your heel lifting up inside the boot when you try to go on a toe side turn? 

In addition to what @Donutz said, this could be another issue.


----------



## timmytard (Mar 19, 2009)

I'd have to say yes.

I ride really stiff boots and had to swap em out for an old pair a few weeks ago cause I was going on day 3 in a row & my booties were soaked.

My old booties had gone all soft compared to my new booties.

It sucked haha, I could feel every little chunk of ice I went over whilst in Toeside carves.

Unless you wanna be a tiny jump doin' park rat?
Stiff boots are the way to go.

As you get better and start going BIGGER, faster, you are gonna want stiffer boots.

Don't go & get the stiffest ones yet though, you won't like em.

Gradually get stiffer ones.
But get boots that are a little bit stiffer than you want(@ that moment in time)

Cause all boots break in & lose there stiffness a bit.
Some more than others, but they ALL lose a little bit of their stiffness


TT


----------



## Toby (Mar 8, 2017)

It could be that your feet aren't properly centered on board and that's why toe side turns feel harder. So it could be worth a shot to play with your bindings.


----------



## Fielding (Feb 15, 2015)

Definitely check the setup. Center the boot on the board while it’s in the binding. Don’t just center the binding. Make sure the forward lean isn’t leaving you with a gap. Better to have a helmet goggle gap than a forward lean binding/boot gap. 

I been riding some softy action (like your girlfriend said) on junk snow for the past couple of days. I’ve been trying to max the soft carve thing. I’m using boots with trad laces. They’re pretty stiff. But I was still feeling a certain amount of insecurity on my front foot. That’s even when I did all kinds of lace tricks and really worked to get it nice. I’m playing with a hack right now that might be promising. Too early to tell. I’m using a bungee cord (the kind with nylon hooks so I’m not going to cut up my boots or pants) wrapped around the mid section up to top of the boot. Naturally the hooks need to connect out of the way of the bindings. Below is a pic of my foot out of the boot with the bungee on the ground because I’m having probs with my footbeds. They ride great but when I walk and rest they deliver torture. Straight torture. 11 street shoe in a 9.5 boot. Bye bye right foot big toenail. Letting my foot stink out while I eat a hamburger.


----------



## g3greg (Mar 6, 2018)

Fielding said:


> Definitely check the setup. Center the boot on the board while it’s in the binding. Don’t just center the binding. Make sure the forward lean isn’t leaving you with a gap. Better to have a helmet goggle gap than a forward lean binding/boot gap.
> 
> I been riding some softy action (like your girlfriend said) on junk snow for the past couple of days. I’ve been trying to max the soft carve thing. I’m using boots with trad laces. They’re pretty stiff. But I was still feeling a certain amount of insecurity on my front foot. That’s even when I did all kinds of lace tricks and really worked to get it nice. I’m playing with a hack right now that might be promising. Too early to tell. I’m using a bungee cord (the kind with nylon hooks so I’m not going to cut up my boots or pants) wrapped around the mid section up to top of the boot. Naturally the hooks need to connect out of the way of the bindings. Below is a pic of my foot out of the boot with the bungee on the ground because I’m having probs with my footbeds. They ride great but when I walk and rest they deliver torture. Straight torture. 11 street shoe in a 9.5 boot. Bye bye right foot big toenail. Letting my foot stink out while I eat a hamburger.


I don't know how you do it, because of burtons "smaller" footprint I assumed a size 12(wear a 12 in nike sneakers) would be fine. My left foot toes were curled up, couldn't straighten them.. so I had to go 13. I can't imagine sizing down, but I would definitely prefer to do that, will an 11.5 in other brands or 12 in burton pack out that much? To go from curled toes to straight?


----------



## Fielding (Feb 15, 2015)

g3greg said:


> Fielding said:
> 
> 
> > Definitely check the setup. Center the boot on the board while it’s in the binding. Don’t just center the binding. Make sure the forward lean isn’t leaving you with a gap. Better to have a helmet goggle gap than a forward lean binding/boot gap.
> ...



Your toes should be a little curled. You’re heel should be well seated. Your foot should not move a thing all. I got mine heat molded and I got custom footbeds done by a bootfitter. Also had the guy put some material under the tongue to Compensate for by skinny ankles. Now I’m Having some problems with right footbed. It might be the lacing and holding foot in place rather than the bed. Also having some issues getting the boot to tie up as tight as I want in the top area. I’ve probably used them only 10 times since I bought them last year. They are actually getting a lot better. Or maybe I’m just learning how to use them better.

Different makers fit differently. Maybe you’re foot isn’t right for Burton boots. Talk to a bootfitter.


----------



## snowklinger (Aug 30, 2011)

my guess is you aren't providing dynamic enough movement on that half of the turning spectrum. I'd be really surprised if your problem was gear related as opposed to technique driven.


----------



## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

g3greg said:


> because of burtons "smaller" footprint I assumed a size 12(wear a 12 in nike sneakers) would be fine.


Hi Greg,

Your US snowboard boot size will always be smaller than your US shoe size (Brannock). 

Please measure your foot using this method:

Kick your heel (barefoot please, no socks) back against a wall. Mark the floor exactly at the tip of your toe (the one that sticks out furthest - which toe this is will vary by rider). Measure from the mark on the floor to the wall. That is your foot length and is the only measurement that you will want to use. Measure in centimeters if possible, but if not, take inches and multiply by 2.54 (example: an 11.25 inch foot x 2.54 = 28.57 centimeters).


----------



## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

Jc Lee said:


> This is my first season snowboarding. The gear i have was selected by a knowledgable rep at my local sporting goods store. He recommended the K2 standard board, and ride anthem boots. (i bought ride capo bindings somewhere else). according to the rep, the boots have a high flex rating, great for beginners.
> 
> My 5th time out and i'm doing S turns pretty comfortably. I can get my turns uniform, short and tight, but what i've noticing is that it takes more effort for my toe turns, it just seems less reactive when i try to engage the toe edge. I suspected it could be my boot. it has a considerable amount of flex when i try to go on my toes. Of course, naturally, the heel edge is easy to engage because my high backs and the basic design of boots just don't allow flex in that direction when engaging heel edge.
> 
> So what do you guys think. will a more rigid boot help me engage my toe edge quicker? or would i be wasting money getting a new boot. Experienced riders, let me know.


Hi JC,

Please also measure your foot using the method below and let us know the boot size that you have purchased.

Please measure your foot using this method:

Kick your heel (barefoot please, no socks) back against a wall. Mark the floor exactly at the tip of your toe (the one that sticks out furthest - which toe this is will vary by rider). Measure from the mark on the floor to the wall. That is your foot length and is the only measurement that you will want to use. Measure in centimeters if possible, but if not, take inches and multiply by 2.54 (example: an 11.25 inch foot x 2.54 = 28.57 centimeters).


----------



## g3greg (Mar 6, 2018)

Wiredsport said:


> Hi Greg,
> 
> Your US snowboard boot size will always be smaller than your US shoe size (Brannock).
> 
> ...


Hi there, that's actually exactly my foot measurement. My toes were being crushed in a size 12 Burton moto boot. I want to size down from a 13 imperial to a 12 Ion. Will this work anyone?


----------



## SGboarder (Jun 24, 2012)

g3greg said:


> Hi there, that's actually exactly my foot measurement. My toes were being crushed in a size 12 Burton moto boot. I want to size down from a 13 imperial to a 12 Ion. Will this work anyone?


Unlikely. 11 1/4" or 28.6cm is at the very low end of US11. No wonder your toes are getting crushed in size 12 (let alone size 13) boots, those would be way too big.


----------



## Phedder (Sep 13, 2014)

SGboarder said:


> Unlikely. 11 1/4" or 28.6cm is at the very low end of US11. No wonder your toes are getting crushed in size 12 (let alone size 13) boots, those would be way too big.


And by 'No wonder' he means that your boots are actually so large compared to your foot, that they're loose and not properly holding your heel in place, which allows your foot to slide inside the boot. I'd bet it feels the worst when on a hard heelside carve, where your foot slides forward and jams your toes against the end of the boot. Go smaller, with good heel-hold, which means the right fit for your foot, not just your favourite brand.


----------



## g3greg (Mar 6, 2018)

unlikely I can't size down? What's too big? You don't make sense. 

I own size 13 Burton Imperials, they feel perfect. Crushed meaning curled up and cramped in a size 12 Burton Moto, I only tried those on in store and they were very uncomfortable. 

I just want to know if the Ion will pack out because I don't want as much toe drag.


----------



## Phedder (Sep 13, 2014)

g3greg said:


> unlikely I can't size down? What's too big? You don't make sense.


Your boot is too big, and your toe pain makes perfect sense. Read it again. 

You said your foot measured 11.25 inches or 28.6cm. That puts you at the low end of a US 11 boot, which would be from 28.6-29.0cm foot length. You said you're currently using a size 13, that's designed for a 30.6-31.0cm foot. Way too big for your 28.6cm foot, which results in it not being held properly or firmly in place, sliding forward, and jamming your toes into the end of the boot. 

Measure the width of your foot as well, there's many other threads here you can read to properly figure out how to get accurate measurements. You might be sizing up in length to compensate for width, very common. 

Just for your reference as well, my feet are 27.7cm long, which puts me into a US10 SB boot. I wear US11 casual shoes, and I make a US9 SB boot work with a 9.5 liner. Not saying you should go as extreme as I did, but your boots are certainly too big, and Burtons may be a poor fit for your foot shape.


----------



## g3greg (Mar 6, 2018)

Sorry read my post again..

I HAVE NO FOOT PAIN WITH MY CURRENT BOOT "THEY'RE PERFECT". I DO HAVE TOE DRAG.(size 13 imperial)

I WANT TO SIZE DOWN.(to a 12 ion)

I HAVE TRIED ON ANOTHER BOOT IN THE NEXT SIZE DOWN(12 moto) AND IT FELT TO SMALL WILL THAT SIZE PACK OUT AND WORK?


----------



## SlvrDragon50 (Mar 25, 2017)

Boots should pack out 1 full size. If the boots are super comfy when you try them on, probably too big.


----------



## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

g3greg said:


> Hi there, that's actually exactly my foot measurement. My toes were being crushed in a size 12 Burton moto boot. I want to size down from a 13 imperial to a 12 Ion. Will this work anyone?


Hi Greg,

28.57 cm is the lowest measurement in the range for a Mondopoint 290 (which size 11 US in snowboard boots). The range for Mondopoint 290 is 28.6 cm to 29.0 cm. 28.5 cm is a size 10.5 in snowboard boots. Please post up images of your bare feet being measured (length and width please) so we can confirm and get you the best size. If your measurements above are correct size 12 would still be far too large.

STOKED!


----------



## kimchijajonshim (Aug 19, 2007)

Jc Lee said:


> This is my first season snowboarding. The gear i have was selected by a knowledgable rep at my local sporting goods store. He recommended the K2 standard board, and ride anthem boots. (i bought ride capo bindings somewhere else). according to the rep, the boots have a high flex rating, great for beginners.
> 
> My 5th time out and i'm doing S turns pretty comfortably. I can get my turns uniform, short and tight, but what i've noticing is that it takes more effort for my toe turns, it just seems less reactive when i try to engage the toe edge. I suspected it could be my boot. it has a considerable amount of flex when i try to go on my toes. Of course, naturally, the heel edge is easy to engage because my high backs and the basic design of boots just don't allow flex in that direction when engaging heel edge.
> 
> So what do you guys think. will a more rigid boot help me engage my toe edge quicker? or would i be wasting money getting a new boot. Experienced riders, let me know.


Hard to say without actually seeing you ride, but I'd be surprised if you've outgrown beginner gear after 5 days out. I'd guess it's more technique-driven than gear or setup driven. If it is gear driven, it's more likely due to poor fitting boots than too-soft boot flex.


----------



## Doraibu (Aug 13, 2017)

g3greg said:


> Hi there, that's actually exactly my foot measurement. My toes were being crushed in a size 12 Burton moto boot. I want to size down from a 13 imperial to a 12 Ion. Will this work anyone?


You're saying 28.6 is your exact measurement? My foot is 28.5cm and I'm using a size US 11 Burton. Size 13 is huge man. And when you squat down, your toes gets pulled back. Check for heel lift too. 
These shop guys love to sell big boots. They were surprised I fit into a size 11 and said I should be going higher, maybe a 12. That's massive man.
Of note, I'm going to downsize to a 10.5 when boots are restocked. 

Maybe try smaller size but on burton wide boots or other brands. Different brands have different moulds/shape. the same shoe size does not fit the same on different brand/model. Good luck!


----------



## Fielding (Feb 15, 2015)

g3greg said:


> Hi there, that's actually exactly my foot measurement. My toes were being crushed in a size 12 Burton moto boot. I want to size down from a 13 imperial to a 12 Ion. Will this work anyone?


Crushed by a moto boot? You can actually see your toes wiggling inside of a moto it’s so soft. I have a pair that I wear as bedroom slippers.

Im a 28 mondo. Maybe 27.5 first thing in the morning. I wear a size 10.5 or 11 in most street shoes. I have a wide forefoot and a lot of toe spread. I wear a size 10 in any Alden shoe that is built on the Barrie last. I wear a 10 in Burton boots and I’m squeezing (albeit with some mild discomfort) into some size 9.5 32 brand boots. 

Snug, stiff boots are the absolute best way to up your game.


----------



## Jc Lee (Feb 12, 2018)

kimchijajonshim said:


> Jc Lee said:
> 
> 
> > This is my first season snowboarding. The gear i have was selected by a knowledgable rep at my local sporting goods store. He recommended the K2 standard board, and ride anthem boots. (i bought ride capo bindings somewhere else). according to the rep, the boots have a high flex rating, great for beginners.
> ...


You’re right. I went out again today and Im improving my technique, allowing me to turn on demand much quicker. It’s definitly was bad technique, however, my heels are rising up when doing toe turns. I do feel boots are a little loose. It’s the BOA system. Tighten to much and it creates uncomfortable pressure on top of my foot. Im thinking about going to a double BOA system, allowing me to tighten in 2 zones. I’m sticking with these boots for now.


----------



## Argo (Feb 25, 2010)

Single boa boots suck. Its either double boa, double speed zone or regular laces.


----------



## g3greg (Mar 6, 2018)

Fielding said:


> Crushed by a moto boot? You can actually see your toes wiggling inside of a moto it’s so soft. I have a pair that I wear as bedroom slippers.
> 
> Im a 28 mondo. Maybe 27.5 first thing in the morning. I wear a size 10.5 or 11 in most street shoes. I have a wide forefoot and a lot of toe spread. I wear a size 10 in any Alden shoe that is built on the Barrie last. I wear a 10 in Burton boots and I’m squeezing (albeit with some mild discomfort) into some size 9.5 32 brand boots.
> 
> Snug, stiff boots are the absolute best way to up your game.


Just a follow up ,I tried on a 11.5 Ruler today.. and it fit.. surprisingly. My 13 imperials feel fine, but I'm excited to see how sizing down to a 12 will effect my technique. I'm not sure wtf was going on with that size 12 moto but I swear it was way tighter than the 11.5 ruler. Oh well.... new leather Ions for next season already ordered :grin: 

Sorry for being a noob guys


----------



## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

g3greg said:


> Just a follow up ,I tried on a 11.5 *Ruler* today.. and it fit.. surprisingly. My 13 *imperials* feel fine, but I'm excited to see how sizing down to a 12 will effect my technique. I'm not sure wtf was going on with that size 12 *moto* but I swear it was way tighter than the 11.5 *ruler*. Oh well.... new leather *Ions* for next season already ordered :grin:
> 
> Sorry for being a noob guys


Pretty sure it's the width. You're comparing different models. Models often have different widths.

If you have a rather wide foot, a narrow model will feel small while the same size of a wider model will feel ok. That's why Wiredsport asked for the width measurement of your foot.


----------



## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

g3greg said:


> Just a follow up ,I tried on a 11.5 Ruler today.. and it fit.. surprisingly. My 13 imperials feel fine, but I'm excited to see how sizing down to a 12 will effect my technique. I'm not sure wtf was going on with that size 12 moto but I swear it was way tighter than the 11.5 ruler. Oh well.... new leather Ions for next season already ordered :grin:
> 
> Sorry for being a noob guys


Hi,

We are stoked to help you. Befoe you buy we really should see your length and width measurements. This will most likely help you avoid a costly mistake. Based on the earlier measurements size 12 will be almost a size and a half too large.

STOKED


----------



## g3greg (Mar 6, 2018)

Ok, I'll try to get something posted for later, sorry to hijack this thread btw OP.


----------



## kimchijajonshim (Aug 19, 2007)

Jc Lee said:


> You’re right. I went out again today and Im improving my technique, allowing me to turn on demand much quicker. It’s definitly was bad technique, however, my heels are rising up when doing toe turns. I do feel boots are a little loose. It’s the BOA system. Tighten to much and it creates uncomfortable pressure on top of my foot. Im thinking about going to a double BOA system, allowing me to tighten in 2 zones. I’m sticking with these boots for now.


Your issue is single boa per se, it's that the boot doesn't fit. That could be due to the boa, it could be due to a broader poor fit. May not be the lower part that's the issue, could be that you have too much room in the shin which is causing slippage.

I'd consult with a proper boot fitter. Unfortunately snowboarders in my experience don't know a whole lot about boot fit, so better to go to a ski shop or a mixed ski/board shop. You may be screwed, or you may be able to fix the issue with some adhesive-backed foam pieces.

Sidenote, I'm personally not a big fan of boa, or speed lace in general (after riding Burton speed zone boots for 6+ years). If your hands are strong enough to get laces tight and get a a decent knot, you're only gaining a marginal amount of convenience and losing a TON of customization. You can also more easily re-tighten boa or speed lace, but they're not nearly as secure and won't stay as tight as laces. Plus, field repairing boa is a pain in the ass compared to replacing torn laces. At this point, boa is almost disqualifying for me unless a boa boots fits my foot better than anything else I try.


----------

