# Burton Cartels (18) vs Union Falcor (19)



## Alexey Oselsky (Apr 4, 2019)

Hi everyone! Need some advice.

I'm riding Jones Explorer board with Burton Cartel bindings with Malavita's highback: last year after closing season in Alps I've discovered that Cartel highback tore my boot on the heel (Burton Ruler), so I reached the Burton service and they sent me new highbacks. But from Malavita's bindings.
Actually, i love almoust everything in these bindings: comfort, responsivness, adjustabillity. But the lack of durability is frustrating.

Right now i can sell my Cartels on the seconfhand market and can take Union Baldface or Falcors by local seller in Moscow for a really good post-season price. But i haven't ever tried Union and know nothing about them lile John Snow.

Should i go for Union or should i stay with Cartels? Planning ride pistas half time and powder the other half.

Thank you!


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## taco tuesday (Jul 26, 2014)

If you decide to go Union you might want to consider the Baldface over the Falcor. I've heard of several people breaking the carbon fiber pieces on the Falcor Highback.


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## Doraibu (Aug 13, 2017)

Ever considered Now/Jones bindings? That's what Jeremy Jones is using with his Jones boards.


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## Alexey Oselsky (Apr 4, 2019)

Doraibu said:


> Ever considered Now/Jones bindings? That's what Jeremy Jones is using with his Jones boards.


Nope. Never seen 'em in our Russian shops yet


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## SlvrDragon50 (Mar 25, 2017)

My Falcors are great. No issues on groomers or powder. Very happy with them. 

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


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## Alexey Oselsky (Apr 4, 2019)

SlvrDragon50 said:


> My Falcors are great.


Can you compare them to the Burtons?


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## SlvrDragon50 (Mar 25, 2017)

Alexey Oselsky said:


> Can you compare them to the Burtons?


The Falcors are going to be way stiffer even compared to the Malavitas. Cartels are more freestyle bindings whereas the Falcors are going to be freeride. The straps will not be as comfortable as the Burtons.

So it basically comes down to if you're wanting a more stiff, responsive binding. If yes, Falcors are a great option. If no, then they will be a bad option. I use them all mountain, but I wouldn't want to use them if you're serious about jibbing with the carbon highbacks.


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## Alexey Oselsky (Apr 4, 2019)

SlvrDragon50 said:


> The Falcors are going to be way stiffer even compared to the Malavitas. Cartels are more freestyle bindings whereas the Falcors are going to be freeride. The straps will not be as comfortable as the Burtons.
> 
> So it basically comes down to if you're wanting a more stiff, responsive binding. If yes, Falcors are a great option. If no, then they will be a bad option. I use them all mountain, but I wouldn't want to use them if you're serious about jibbing with the carbon highbacks.


Thanks! I don't think i will ever be jibbing, my knees are too old and injured for it )))
And what about durability? How long do you own Falcors? Do you need to glue foam sometimes on highback or use locktite on screws or change buckles?


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## SlvrDragon50 (Mar 25, 2017)

Alexey Oselsky said:


> Thanks! I don't think i will ever be jibbing, my knees are too old and injured for it )))
> And what about durability? How long do you own Falcors? Do you need to glue foam sometimes on highback or use locktite on screws or change buckles?


I used them for about 30 days, no problems. If you have the new locking washers you don't need loctite.


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

Alexey Oselsky said:


> Hi everyone! Need some advice.
> 
> I'm riding Jones Explorer board with Burton Cartel bindings with Malavita's highback: last year after closing season in Alps I've discovered that Cartel highback tore my boot on the heel (Burton Ruler), so I reached the Burton service and they sent me new highbacks. But from Malavita's bindings.
> Actually, i love almoust everything in these bindings: comfort, responsivness, adjustabillity. But the lack of durability is frustrating.
> ...


Falcors are very stiff and responsive, comparable to Burton Diode. They also cost about 2x what Cartels cost.
Cartel are a lot softer flexing and more on the relaxed side of things.. comparable maybe to Union Force.

If you have never tried Union, I'd recommend trying them just for the sake of trying something new. I have tried them and I think they are over rated junk with some serious flaws and some things which are pretty good as well; but you might find/think differently. So no way of knowing unless you try them.


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## SlvrDragon50 (Mar 25, 2017)

Yea F1EA makes a good point. Definitely doesn't hurt to try out new bindings. Even if you end up not liking the Unions, it wont be too difficult to replace them with other bindings. 

I have bindings from Now, Rome, and Union for that exact reason. The next set of bindings I get will probably be Burton or Arbor. 

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


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## UNION_INHOUSE (Nov 1, 2016)

F1EA said:


> Falcors are very stiff and responsive, comparable to Burton Diode. They also cost about 2x what Cartels cost.
> Cartel are a lot softer flexing and more on the relaxed side of things.. comparable maybe to Union Force.
> 
> If you have never tried Union, I'd recommend trying them just for the sake of trying something new. I have tried them and I think they are over rated junk with some serious flaws and some things which are pretty good as well; but you might find/think differently. So no way of knowing unless you try them.


Dude, they are $70 more, not twice the price. 

"Overrated junk with some serious flaws"? Hit me with some feedback.


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

UNION_INHOUSE said:


> Dude, they are $70 more, not twice the price.
> 
> "Overrated junk with some serious flaws"? Hit me with some feedback.


haha ok ok. I don't really enjoy this but...

Yes, they are only officially $100 more (im in Canada). But when I was cross shopping, I get 20% off and no tax at the shop which carries Burton, Rome, Salomon, Arbor, Ride (and doesnt carry Union) but would have to buy Falcors locally with tax and regular price so that ended up being about 2x the price. Yeah, not exactly accurate there with the price but the 2x the price stuck with me from when I was shopping earlier. In any case, I did buy Union Strata at MSRP which means, to me the little price difference is no big deal. Sadly, ended up returning them for the reasons below (from reason 3 on).

Flaws, or "what I consider" flaws:

1. The older models heel cups kept getting loose. 2 of my friends had this issue, I never did have this problem because I didn't buy them then, from this feedback and because of 2a and 2b.
2a. Older models had way too short straps. I couldn't get them to fit my boots in either L or M.
2b. Older models had no mini disc, except for Contact Pro which was a bit too soft for my liking. 

3. Newer models on mini disc: the heelcup is waaaaaaaaaaay too narrow. The older Now hanger 1.0 was revised/modified because people complained it was too narrow.... well, the L Union mini disc heelcup is easily 1.5 cm narrower (I forgot the exact number, but i did measure them and it was along these lines) than the Now hanger 1.0 which i dont like too much because it is too tight and restrictive. So the Union is way too tight and restrictive and in my case painfully pinched my heels and cut through my boots (no biggie, duct tape solved it). And I'm on US10.5 on L bindings, anything bigger would have been impossible.

4. The baseplates are HUGE. The L baseplate is bigger than anything in the market, and way bigger than any boot which would fit in that tight heelcup. Also, it's bigger where the boots are not big (ie at the toe area... they're too wide). So in the end the whole baseplate hangs out from anything but wider boards.

5. Because the baseplate is so big, you end up with an massive dead spot under your feet. This is no big deal if all you've ridden is Union or simply don't mind, but once you try bindings which don't have such a big dead spot, it is pretty obvious. The mini disc bindings are much better, but still.... big dead spot. Which make the bindings feel overly restrictive (specially when combined with 4).

6. Didn't like the hard plastic on the Strata/Falcor ankle straps. This is a preference thing but...... why hard plastic where the strap goes in contact with your boots?? toe straps are great, and soft rubber. Ankle strap is nice and soft inside, then hard outside where it hits your boots...... not the end of the world, but other (ie pretty much ALL) ankle straps *I find* are more comfortable. This is kind of subjective but... check Arbor, Burton, Flux, Now, even Salomon ankle straps....... super comfy because they have pretty much zero hard plastic against your boot contact points. 



That said... I liked my Stratas and if not for 3, 4 and 5 would have kept them and been happy with them. I guess there would be certain combinations of boots and bindings sizes which would work... but these problems never happened to me on any of my other bindings (Burton, Ride, Flux, Rome, Now) even with my older size US11 boots.

Also, the Stratas looked GOOD on the board I had them on and I really liked the response.

But I find over rated because... they offer nothing really outstanding and some people go nutz over Union bindings for pretty vain reasons....


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## woodhouse (Jan 18, 2013)

F1EA said:


> haha ok ok. I don't really enjoy this but...
> 
> Yes, they are only officially $100 more (im in Canada). But when I was cross shopping, I get 20% off and no tax at the shop which carries Burton, Rome, Salomon, Arbor, Ride (and doesnt carry Union) but would have to buy Falcors locally with tax and regular price so that ended up being about 2x the price. Yeah, not exactly accurate there with the price but the 2x the price stuck with me from when I was shopping earlier. In any case, I did buy Union Strata at MSRP which means, to me the little price difference is no big deal. Sadly, ended up returning them for the reasons below (from reason 3 on).
> 
> ...


This is a review Ive been looking for...I have 2018 cartels in a large, but have since sized down my boot from an 11 to a 10, so I have started looking at medium bindings.

I was considering looking into unions (strata/atlas/falcor), but I think I'll just look for a medium cartel after reading this

And you are right, those red strata's look $$$ on your board!


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## Rip154 (Sep 23, 2017)

If most bindings manufacturers just offered medium bindings in wide too, it would solve many problems, but I don't have enough knowledge of the economy of something like that. Unions feel really hightech because of the weight and all that foam, and generally comfy if they fit your foot. What I haven't liked, is the difference between the middle and heel/toe. It should be an even flex, not a painful pivot. I'm guessing the Strata is on point with that though, haven't tried. Medium Burtons are a little wider, but they should still make a medium wide. Bindings should be made so that canting is an option, not a feature on all the advanced bindings. This is general for most brands, but some have solved it. Binding discs where you can choose between 2x4 and 4x4 would offer alot more versatility with stance, I would say that tops the channel in some ways. The disc flex focus is too weird. It should be possible to make a combo disc, where you get the same flex as a minidisc, where all that matters is if you pick 2x4 over 4x4 pattern. While Burton has less adjustability with the heelcup, they can move straps independently from the highback. I don't think Union does that. There's also the halfassed highback rotation thing, which is weird. One of the problem with ankle straps, is that on some straps, the buckles and ladder get in the way when you are flexing the straps alot, and they become pressurepoints. I've felt this with the ladder on Unions, and the buckles on Burtons. On a Union I had, I had to crank the screws so tight to compress the baseplate that the inserts pulled up abit. No idea why there would be give between the disc and board, makes no sense. Some baseplates and toeramps have way too much rocker, and makes the ankle strap compress your foot when turning toeside. This varies with bindings, some brands are worse than others, also depends on the shape and size of feet vs bindings.

So theres some constructive criticism, and maybe some pointers to OP.


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## timmytard (Mar 19, 2009)

F1EA said:


> Falcors are very stiff and responsive, comparable to Burton Diode. They also cost about 2x what Cartels cost.
> Cartel are a lot softer flexing and more on the relaxed side of things.. comparable maybe to Union Force.
> 
> If you have never tried Union, I'd recommend trying them just for the sake of trying something new. I have tried them and I think they are over rated junk with some serious flaws and some things which are pretty good as well; but you might find/think differently. So no way of knowing unless you try them.


Post that in one of those facebook groups & see how well it goes over haha

I've had 3 pair & each pair broke & sucked.
I won't ever be buying a pair again.

I told Unionhouse to send me a pair that didn't suck & if they didn't suck?

I'd tell everyone they didn't suck.

He said no. 

Maybe he couldn't finds a pair that didn't suck?


TT


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## drblast (Feb 28, 2017)

UNION_INHOUSE said:


> Dude, they are $70 more, not twice the price.
> 
> "Overrated junk with some serious flaws"? Hit me with some feedback.


I would never say "overrated junk" but I'd love to give some feedback on things I like/don't. I've ridden Forces and TRice Pros. I'm 200lbs, fit, ride fast on many different boards.

Like:
- Responsiveness. Never felt like I was overpowering Union bindings and they're just rock solid.
- Shock absorption. Soooo much foam, especially on the TRice's. Great to ride all day on in choppy terrain. The TRice foam was so thick it was almost like riding with risers.
- Ratchets and ladders. The magnesium ones on the TRice's are the easiest and smoothest ratchets ever. Love these.

Meh:
- Loosening hardware and heel loop. You guys solved the ankle strap loosening problem this year; thanks for that. But the heel loops can come loose too and with the smooth aluminum being held in apparently by friction I've had the heel loop come out over time. There are grooves for 0 1 2 heel loop settings but it's not apparent if they're functional or just cosmetic. Functional grooves near the forward screw might help lock this in. This is not a big deal like the loosening ankle strap was.
- Straps. Straps have been overall pretty great, but they're not the most comfortable or supportive compared to other brands for me.

Dislike:
- Huuuuge baseplate. Unions are the only binding in my size where the baseplate would hang over the side of the board, to the point where it would have been a factor in boot out. And the awesome foam footbeds on the TRice significantly overhang the baseplate for no apparent reason even retracted all the way in. Fit my boots really well, but not my narrower boards. I do appreciate the stiffness of the baseplate, especially on my freeride boards.


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

lol
Yes, I know... they're not exactly "over rated junk".
I guess a bit over rated, but junk was a bit of an exaggeration. Sowwy :embarrased1: 

In any case, I do like Union in general. I like their team, like their media, like their binding variety/line, their colabs are cool, etc. and actually like their performance besides the flaws.

So yeah, the flaws were a bit too much for me... but I'm pretty sure it's not that bad for others.


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## woodhouse (Jan 18, 2013)

F1EA said:


> lol
> Yes, I know... they're not exactly "over rated junk".
> I guess a bit over rated, but junk was a bit of an exaggeration. Sowwy :embarrased1:
> 
> ...


Given all that, what binding do you ride/recommend?


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## SlvrDragon50 (Mar 25, 2017)

You really can't go wrong with pretty much any modern binding nowadays. If Union really was as bad as we make it out to be, they wouldn't be on half the boards on the mountain. Would really encourage you to do what F1EA said and try them out even knowing what we have said.

Rome, Now, Burton all make solid bindings. Flux and Arbor are on my list.


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

woodhouse said:


> Given all that, what binding do you ride/recommend?


I ride a bunch of bindings... can recommend pretty much any bindings because most of them (brands) will work anyways. But in general, for

- Mild response, super comfortable and high-end everything... Genesis.
- Simple, awesome response and comfort: Now Drive
- Insane adjustability and overall just solid build: Katana
- Simple and great price vs performance: Union Force, Cartel. 

I really like Genesis X but they're very expensive. They're kind of at the response level of Now Drive with all the features from Genesis. But it comes at a $ price...


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## SlvrDragon50 (Mar 25, 2017)

F1EA said:


> I ride a bunch of bindings... can recommend pretty much any bindings because most of them (brands) will work anyways. But in general, for
> 
> - Mild response, super comfortable and high-end everything... Genesis.
> - Simple, awesome response and comfort: Now Drive
> ...


I'm surprised you would put the Cartels over the Vitas. I 100% agree with the top 3, owning Now Drives and Rome Katanas :grin: and really wanting either Burton Genesis/Vitas after demoing them.

The only thing I don't like about Burton is $$$. I feel like you can get way more binding for less from other manufacturers, especially now that a lot of the manufacturers are copying the Burton straps. One of the reasons why I want to try out the Arbors.


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

SlvrDragon50 said:


> I'm surprised you would put the Cartels over the Vitas. I 100% agree with the top 3, owning Now Drives and Rome Katanas :grin: and really wanting either Burton Genesis/Vitas after demoing them.
> 
> The only thing I don't like about Burton is $$$. I feel like you can get way more binding for less from other manufacturers, especially now that a lot of the manufacturers are copying the Burton straps. One of the reasons why I want to try out the Arbors.


I actually find Malavitas over rated  they are fine, but so many people go crazy over them and I just find them ok.

Funny, because I have Malavitas and not Cartel. 
But I find Malavitas not really better than Cartels, yet more expensive. While Genesis are much better than Malavitas while only a bit more expensive than Malavitas. Then Genesis X better than all of them, but really expensive...

Now Drive fall somewhere in between. Super simple.... seriously... you just mount them and go. Maybe flip the ankle strap to the "up" position and that's it or change the bushings if you feel finnicky. Super comfortable, super responsive. Not many adjustments to make, yet everything is kind of dialed and just works.


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## smellysell (Oct 29, 2018)

I have cartels on my Endeavor Maverick and I hate them. Think I might just need a stiffer binding for that board? 

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


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## SlvrDragon50 (Mar 25, 2017)

F1EA said:


> I actually find Malavitas over rated  they are fine, but so many people go crazy over them and I just find them ok.
> 
> Funny, because I have Malavitas and not Cartel.
> But I find Malavitas not really better than Cartels, yet more expensive. While Genesis are much better than Malavitas while only a bit more expensive than Malavitas. Then Genesis X better than all of them, but really expensive...
> ...


Yea, I heard the Vitas were quite similar to the Cartels up until 17-18? Then they stiffened up the Vitas 18-19. Not sure which ones you have.


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

smellysell said:


> I have cartels on my Endeavor Maverick and I hate them. Think I might just need a stiffer binding for that board?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


Yeah, I would go stiffer on that board. Cartel should be fine... but Cartel is still pretty mild and softish. 
I have Genesis X on my Archetype, which kinda needs stiffer bindings than the Maverick because it's wider, but... not by much. I have a buddy who has Cartels on a Maverick and he likes the combo.



SlvrDragon50 said:


> Yea, I heard the Vitas were quite similar to the Cartels up until 17-18? Then they stiffened up the Vitas 18-19. Not sure which ones you have.


They stiffened the Cartels. Malavita has stayed the same (which is pretty soft).


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## smellysell (Oct 29, 2018)

F1EA said:


> Yeah, I would go stiffer on that board. Cartel should be fine... but Cartel is still pretty mild and softish.
> I have Genesis X on my Archetype, which kinda needs stiffer bindings than the Maverick because it's wider, but... not by much. I have a buddy who has Cartels on a Maverick and he likes the combo.


Think I'm gonna throw a pair of my forces on there and see if I like that better. 

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


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## woodhouse (Jan 18, 2013)

F1EA said:


> I ride a bunch of bindings... can recommend pretty much any bindings because most of them (brands) will work anyways. But in general, for
> 
> - Mild response, super comfortable and high-end everything... Genesis.
> - Simple, awesome response and comfort: Now Drive
> ...


My deciding factor to go with the cartels, other than the great reviews they get as a solid all mountain binding, was the fact that every single shop stocks parts for them.

I broke a rome binding in killington last year (they were crazy old and due for replacement, no knock on rome here) and the 1st shop I went to didnt have parts for it, luckily the 2nd one was able to frankenstein something together.

Im too new to know the difference between bindings, I dont have enough experience with other bindings other than my cartels, but Ive had people recommend the katanas and now ipo for my terrain wrecker


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## SlvrDragon50 (Mar 25, 2017)

woodhouse said:


> My deciding factor to go with the cartels, other than the great reviews they get as a solid all mountain binding, was the fact that every single shop stocks parts for them.
> 
> I broke a rome binding in killington last year (they were crazy old and due for replacement, no knock on rome here) and the 1st shop I went to didnt have parts for it, luckily the 2nd one was able to frankenstein something together.
> 
> Im too new to know the difference between bindings, I dont have enough experience with other bindings other than my cartels, but Ive had people recommend the katanas and now ipo for my terrain wrecker


I just preemptively asked Rome for toe straps since they were starting to tear a bit. I'd be surprised if you didn't like the Katanas. I keep thinking about selling my Katanas, but they just work so well on every board.


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## woodhouse (Jan 18, 2013)

SlvrDragon50 said:


> I just preemptively asked Rome for toe straps since they were starting to tear a bit. I'd be surprised if you didn't like the Katanas. I keep thinking about selling my Katanas, but they just work so well on every board.


Yeah a lot of people seem to like them, maybe I just need to buy a pair...

I only own one board and dont plan on changing that, I was really just looking for an all mountain freestyle binding that is playful but can do it all, I'll admit the goodrides praise for the cartel sold me as well.

One thing I'll say about burton is there customer service is fantastic, it seems they really want to take care of the customer, and the lifetime warranty is nice too. 

One thing that sucks is the lack of heel to toe adjustability, if you are inbetween sizes, it can be hard to center your boot on board.


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

woodhouse said:


> Yeah a lot of people seem to like them, maybe I just need to buy a pair...
> 
> I only own one board and dont plan on changing that, I was really just looking for an all mountain freestyle binding that is playful but can do it all, I'll admit the goodrides praise for the cartel sold me as well.
> 
> ...


In between sizes is a problem in pretty much ALL modern bindings. Even the adjustable heel cup ones. There is a limit to how much you can adjust, and that is just a fact of life. Some will fit slightly better or some will have a different problem which you might be fine in your particular case, or some will just be a problem on another size not yours specifically. I'm inbetween sizes (10.5) and have ZERO problems with L fixed heelcup bindings. I use bulky boots to deal with this though. If i were size 10 for example, i'd go with slim boots and try to get into M bindings... 

Same with my Union problems... if i went with really slim boots, i think the heels would fit better, but then all my other bidings would end up too sloppy or would end up being too big for the slim boots, so it was a specific problem for me but maybe not if you had a single pair of bindings. Problem was I also had to deal with the BIG baseplate which was also not ideal... so baseplate too big but heel too tight. Most bindings would have been too big or too small all around...


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## Phedder (Sep 13, 2014)

SlvrDragon50 said:


> Yea, I heard the Vitas were quite similar to the Cartels up until 17-18? Then they stiffened up the Vitas 18-19. Not sure which ones you have.


No major changes for a few years in terms of stiffness. Cartels have a stiffer baseplate and stiffer ankle strap, softer high back. Malavitas have a softer baseplate and ankle strap (also asym for mobility) and a stiffer highback. 

I've said it a few times, Burton should just swap the highbacks. Put the Vita highback on the Cartel and vise versa, give the Cartel an even stiffer feel and more direct/responsive heel/toe, and loosen up the Malavita overall. Firmly all mountain and then firmly freestyle focused, instead of the weird overlap but slightly different feels they have now.


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## SlvrDragon50 (Mar 25, 2017)

Phedder said:


> No major changes for a few years in terms of stiffness. Cartels have a stiffer baseplate and stiffer ankle strap, softer high back. Malavitas have a softer baseplate and ankle strap (also asym for mobility) and a stiffer highback.
> 
> I've said it a few times, Burton should just swap the highbacks. Put the Vita highback on the Cartel and vise versa, give the Cartel an even stiffer feel and more direct/responsive heel/toe, and loosen up the Malavita overall. Firmly all mountain and then firmly freestyle focused, instead of the weird overlap but slightly different feels they have now.


Sounds like you're convincing me to buy Vitas and Cartels and swap them myself >


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

Phedder said:


> No major changes for a few years in terms of stiffness. Cartels have a stiffer baseplate and stiffer ankle strap, softer high back. Malavitas have a softer baseplate and ankle strap (also asym for mobility) and a stiffer highback.
> 
> I've said it a few times, Burton should just swap the highbacks. Put the Vita highback on the Cartel and vise versa, give the Cartel an even stiffer feel and more direct/responsive heel/toe, and loosen up the Malavita overall. Firmly all mountain and then firmly freestyle focused, instead of the weird overlap but slightly different feels they have now.


Yeah Cartels are too soft for what they keep saying they are. Not a huge problem once you know how they feel, but if you go off Burton's description, you'd think they're a lot more responsive.

For example, this thread here is comparing Cartels to Falcors. They're not even near.


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## Rip154 (Sep 23, 2017)

I wish Burton had a full on frankenshop, or "Make your own bindings" something.


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## Alexey Oselsky (Apr 4, 2019)

SlvrDragon50 said:


> Sounds like you're convincing me to buy Vitas and Cartels and swap them myself >


LOL! After 4 pages we came to start as I have exactly Cartels with Malavita's highback ))) I think i'll keep them for few seasons and maybe will have a look at Now.

Thanks!


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## SlvrDragon50 (Mar 25, 2017)

Alexey Oselsky said:


> LOL! After 4 pages we came to start as I have exactly Cartels with Malavita's highback ))) I think i'll keep them for few seasons and maybe will have a look at Now.
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks!


Haha kinda  it goes back to the point of if you want to go stiffer. As above, the Falcor is still going to be way stiffer than the Malavita Cartel hybrid. I wouldn't sell the Burton though since you can always throw it on another board. 

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


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## DapperROMESDS (Nov 24, 2018)

F1EA said:


> Yeah Cartels are too soft for what they keep saying they are. Not a huge problem once you know how they feel, but if you go off Burton's description, you'd think they're a lot more responsive.
> 
> For example, this thread here is comparing Cartels to Falcors. They're not even near.


This is funny to read because I feel like everyone says that Cartels are a vert stiff binding


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

DapperROMESDS said:


> This is funny to read because I feel like everyone says that Cartels are a vert stiff binding


They're not.

But there's only 1 way to find out.....


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## DapperROMESDS (Nov 24, 2018)

F1EA said:


> They're not.
> 
> But there's only 1 way to find out.....


Yes but I say so because if you go to www.burton.com and go to bindings and search the filter and put response type Cartels and genesis X are under Stiff, Malavitas and genesis are response type medium.

So who do i trust


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## russmc22 (Jul 17, 2019)

Hi, i'm joining this tread late, but wanted to ask advice on 2nd hand bindings for freeride and powder riding on a new Rossi Argus board. From the tread, it seems that Now bindings seem a good option. i'm looking also at some second hand Flux bindings. Would these be a good option also?


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## drblast (Feb 28, 2017)

You'd be better off starting a new thread about your specific question than asking one completely unrelated to the thread title at the end of this one.


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## russmc22 (Jul 17, 2019)

good advice, thanks


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