# Orca vs. Mind Expander?



## Bye4now12 (Dec 6, 2018)

I'm looking for a powder board that I can take around the resort and in trees during heli boarding. This year I'm riding Jackson Hole and a 5 day heli trip to way northern BC. In Jackson it'll be a mix of on piste and sidecountry.

Other boards are a 2013 TRice pro 161.5CM (for no new snow groomer days) and a 2018 Jones Lonewolf 168CM (this is for big carves on the 5 day heli trip to northern BC). I'm looking for a powder board that I won't totally hate taking around groomers.

I'm 5'10" and 190lbs; size 9 boot
Riding Adidas Tactical ADV's (replaced 2013 TRice DC boots) and Jones Mercurys (replaced 2007 cartels)

Has anyone ridden the Orca and the Mind Expander? My concern about the Orca is float, my concern about the Mind Expander is it being too washy if I'm not in waist deep powder. I'm a pretty aggressive rider that's been riding for ~18 years.

Open to other considerations. Checked out the Yes 420PH at my local shop and they said because of the width it's pretty trash unless you're in waist deep powder. Thanks much!


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## GenGo (Dec 5, 2018)

check out snowboardprocamp on youtube. They've been riding an orca in BC this season.


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## Rip154 (Sep 23, 2017)

Burton Working Stiff, still some around in shops. Has a little camber so it can carve around and pop jumps. It's just one of the most agile boards out there, and with a stiff nose it won't stall out and run you into a tree, and you get instant control of the board again after drops. Takes alot to go over the handlebars on this one.


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

Bye4now12 said:


> I'm looking for a powder board that I can take around the resort and in trees during heli boarding. This year I'm riding Jackson Hole and a 5 day heli trip to way northern BC. In Jackson it'll be a mix of on piste and sidecountry.
> 
> Other boards are a 2013 TRice pro 161.5CM (for no new snow groomer days) and a 2018 Jones Lonewolf 168CM (this is for big carves on the 5 day heli trip to northern BC). I'm looking for a powder board that I won't totally hate taking around groomers.
> 
> ...


If you're an aggressive rider that wants versatility, float and enough power for freeride terrain... why not look into more "proper" camber freeride/powder boards:

1. Absolute top choice for what you say, i'd say last yr's Burton Dump Truck 158. If you can find one.
2. Endeavor Archetype. 162 (maybe even 158 but your weight might be pushing it)
3. GNU Mullair 
4. One of the Koruas, I forgot which one... you have small feet so find one that's not too volume shifted.
5. Flight Attendant or Deep Thinker. If you dont want an exaggerated-ly directional board.


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## The_Stigs (Jan 3, 2012)

F1EA said:


> If you're an aggressive rider that wants versatility, float and enough power for freeride terrain... why not look into more "proper" camber freeride/powder boards:
> 
> 1. Absolute top choice for what you say, i'd say last yr's Burton Dump Truck 158. If you can find one.
> 2. Endeavor Archetype. 162 (maybe even 158 but your weight might be pushing it)
> ...


If it matters, I saw a Dump Truck 158 on sale on Evo earlier today. 

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk


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## fazy (Feb 3, 2017)

is the Dump truck much different than the Stun gun? I thought its just a rebranded version?


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## Bye4now12 (Dec 6, 2018)

Rip154 said:


> Burton Working Stiff, still some around in shops. Has a little camber so it can carve around and pop jumps. It's just one of the most agile boards out there, and with a stiff nose it won't stall out and run you into a tree, and you get instant control of the board again after drops. Takes alot to go over the handlebars on this one.


Thanks for the feedback! It seems like the working stiff and Dump Truck are similar but the dump truck has a bit more taper. Any other thoughts on one over the other?


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## Bye4now12 (Dec 6, 2018)

F1EA said:


> If you're an aggressive rider that wants versatility, float and enough power for freeride terrain... why not look into more "proper" camber freeride/powder boards:
> 
> 1. Absolute top choice for what you say, i'd say last yr's Burton Dump Truck 158. If you can find one.
> 2. Endeavor Archetype. 162 (maybe even 158 but your weight might be pushing it)
> ...


This is great advice, thank you! I looked at the Archtype, unfortunately it completely sold out a month ago in that size.

I definitely am a more aggressive rider, and for this board I'm targeting something quick to get in and out of trees in powder. Does your Dump Truck recommendation still apply?

As someone else said, Evo has an '18 Dump Truck 158 on sale right now. I was thinking something shorter because I have the Lone Wolf for ripping big carves in powder above the treeline. 

For what it's worth, I rode a '16 Barracuda last year doing Heli in Whistler and loved it. It was fun and playful and felt turny. I don't remember the size I rode though.


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

fazy said:


> is the Dump truck much different than the Stun gun? I thought its just a rebranded version?


VERY different boards. Seems crazy, because they have almost the same shape, but they have very different personalities. I tried both on the same day (155 SG and 154 DT) and

Stun Gun = softer, poppier, turnier, more playful, less stable, less edge hold. 
Dump Truck = damper, more precise, much better edge hold, very agile but less playful (when i say agile vs playful means you can do quick sharp turns but not like easy butters, presses, etc).

You would size down slightly on the SG, but go with your regular size on the DT. I should have been on a 158 DT but they didn't have it at the time so I just tried the 154 and it still ripped.

They are both very floaty. I didn't ride the DT in pow, but I have a 155 SG and that board floats very well. However, if I didn't already have a 158 Archetype and 159 Landlord... I would absolutely prefer the 158 Dump Truck. Very similar to the LL, which is my favorite board ever...



Bye4now12 said:


> This is great advice, thank you! I looked at the Archtype, unfortunately it completely sold out a month ago in that size.
> 
> I definitely am a more aggressive rider, and for this board I'm targeting something quick to get in and out of trees in powder. Does your Dump Truck recommendation still apply?
> 
> ...


Quick in and out of trees is exactly why I love the Dump Truck and Landlord. For boards that have really good edge hold and are stable... they are surprisingly agile and responsive (I think it's because of the setback, taper, sidecut, carbon and core). So you can ride bigger mountain but also dart in and out of tress with no problems. It's the very definition of an 'aggressive' board... they are agile not because they are loose, but because they are responsive and precise.

For example, the Stun Gun is super fun in trees and on powder, but on bigger slopes I find I have to control my speed a lot more because it doesn't feel nearly as stable. Same with carving, super fun up to a certain speed and if it's not too bumpy. The LL and DT will let you rip both. Archetype too, the difference is that the Archetype is also playful. It's a crazy board.

Barracuda is about as stiff as the Stun Gun, which is noticeably softer than Dump Truck; also Barracuda has a more floaty/loose feeling than the DT and SG because it was flat to rocker (SG & DT are camber). That profile and flex is VERY fun, a lot less aggressive than the DT, so the Stun Gun is much closer to the Barracuda than the DT. The DT is closer to the Landlord. So if you want something similar to the Barracuda, but a little bit more aggressive because of the camber, then the Stun Gun is a good match.

In summary: 
Powder, trees, big slopes, stable, not as playful: Dump Truck.
Powder, trees, medium speed, very playful: Stun Gun.


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## fazy (Feb 3, 2017)

F1EA said:


> VERY different boards. Seems crazy, because they have almost the same shape, but they have very different personalities. I tried both on the same day (155 SG and 154 DT) and
> 
> Stun Gun = softer, poppier, turnier, more playful, less stable, less edge hold.
> Dump Truck = damper, more precise, much better edge hold, very agile but less playful (when i say agile vs playful means you can do quick sharp turns but not like easy butters, presses, etc).
> ...


thank you for that, great explanation


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## Rip154 (Sep 23, 2017)

Bye4now12 said:


> Thanks for the feedback! It seems like the working stiff and Dump Truck are similar but the dump truck has a bit more taper. Any other thoughts on one over the other?


Not really similar. WS has a stiff nose, DT has a stiff tail. DT has less taper and a different tail shape (which I like better for pow, but doesn't necessarily give more control). They are a different riding experience. I trust the WS more in tight trees and terrain, and I think it's more stable and fun (if you really push on the tail you can get it into some insane curves) at the same time, less chance of the nose giving out on you, doesn't trampoline you if you get in the backseat (which isn't a problem in deep pow). DT is less work and a little more loose and sendy at high speed, easier (because it's stiffer) to turn on groomers. I don't know exactly what anyone means by being an aggressive rider (assuming it means you ride well and can handle some speed, and not a madman making kids cry at the bunny hill), but the DT might be more suited for you. It's an all around stiffer board, and you can get it in bigger sizes, so you can get more float. That being said, the older you get, the stiffer boards you want.


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## MR. (Oct 9, 2015)

I have a 157 Barracuda that's only been ridden a few times that I'd be willing to part with if you know that's the board you really want.


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