# Want to improve butters. (..64 yo buttering vid. Has me shamed!)



## chomps1211 (Mar 30, 2011)

After watching Serious Cat's video post of that 64 Yo codger buttering the fuck outta his board, I got to wondering. I've been working on the same thing this season and I noticed It looks to me like this guy's got one hell of a wide stance on that board. I was wondering if widening my stance would help me improve my butters over all?

On my 3 boards I run my stance's between 21-1/2 in. To 23-3/4. The narrowest stance oddly enough is on my longest, stiffest board. My Arbor 163W. 
I'm running 23-1/2 & 23-3/4 respectively on my RGR 159cm and NS Proto CT 157. I've been doing pretty good but I still have some trouble with balance or over pressing and having the board shooting out from underneath me. 

Not to mention my pressed nose n tail spins are nowhere near as smooth or fluid as his appear to be on the vid. He's almost got a Ti Chi looking body position when he spins. 

Just wondering if part of my problem might be my comparatively narrower stance? (...I've have the SA Vid tutorials on butters and regularly refer to them btw!)


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## Extremo (Nov 6, 2008)

If you practice even a little you'll get that good at them pretty quick. But that dude is was pretty spry for 64. Def impressed by that. A 23.75 stance should be plenty on your Proto. That dude was riding a Pickle which is super rocker so that's making it a lot easier for him. The Proto presses well enough so I'd recommend learning on that. And it's not so soft that it'll fold underneath you. Detuning the tips down through the effective edge will help with catching too. You'll be surprised how quick you pick it up if you spend some time on it.

Edit: Try it out at 24.5. Not sure how tall you are but it couldn't hurt for a day, just to see how it compares.


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## jdang307 (Feb 6, 2011)

Anyone have a link to this video? I tried to improve my butters this year but it looked like margarine.

EDIT: Found it.

He's pretty good for 64! He wasn't getting much lift on his butters and presses though. Barely any on a rockered board like that. Not knocking him of course, he's smooth and having fun.


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## chomps1211 (Mar 30, 2011)

*Wider Stance Update*

I got up to Boyne this weekend and decided to make the change on the Rome GR first. I made a mistake on the stance width's I posted earlier for the NS & RGR boards! My short term memory _sucks_!!!  (_Too many years in my teens and 20's engaging in "Better Living Thru Chemistry!!"_) :laugh:

The stance width on the RGR _was_ at 22 1/4,.. (The proto is at 23" even!) I widened the RGR one set of inserts and it is now at 24"!! I like it!!!! 
It felt _WAY_ more stable when just doing straight buttering, and for the pressed turns it's working out nice too! It felt so much more stable that I was willing to try and get them a little more tricked out by adding "Nollie's" into them! I haven't got that dialed in or looking smooth yet, but I am sticking most of them so far!!! 

Today I am going to widen up my stance on the Proto CT. I'm a little hesitant only because doing so will take it from 23" to a VERY wide 25"!! I'm 6ft.tall, but only a 32" inseam BTW! (...I think that's what's referred to as "Tall In The Saddle!") Most of my height is in my torso! I'm gonna give it a try cuz I can always switch it back, but it is an awfully wide stance don't you think? Opinions?


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## Deacon (Mar 2, 2013)

It makes sense that you'd have your most narrow stance on you stiffest board... At least to me. You're gonna get much better flex for carving if you weight is closer to the center of the board. I ride a board that is too big for me, and it was a LOT easier to turn once I brought my stance down. it also damped that choppy Midwest ice better.


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## chomps1211 (Mar 30, 2011)

The Deacon said:


> It makes sense that you'd have your most narrow stance on you stiffest board... At least to me. You're gonna get much better flex for carving if you weight is closer to the center of the board. I ride a board that is too big for me, and it was a LOT easier to turn once I brought my stance down. it also damped that choppy Midwest ice better.


Thanks for the reply. You know that makes sense to me too now that you described it like that. That's probably why I didn't like it when I tried a little wider stance on the Arbor last year. I definitely didn't like how it rode after going wider. That's the main reason I didnt try any other stance widths on the other two boards. 

I did go with the 25" stance today on the Neversummer. Again,.. I really liked it!! The butters, spins, they all felt better, more stable on both boards with the much wider stance. My regular riding felt a little different. Not bad or awkward. Just different. But it did not appear to be a detriment. I was still able to bomb the steep stuff pretty fast! (...now remember I'm talking steep for MI!) I think my tight turns are even better with the wider stance. So, I think I'll keep em like this n see how I progress with feeling a bit more stable on the boards.


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## snowklinger (Aug 30, 2011)

I'm just a spry 37 year old but I've been learning butters alot this year and getting better at them. They are a great workout. 

More than anything just start fucking around ALOT at slow speeds when you have alot of room, try to get retarded with your edge control, that's really where buttering is at, more than flexing your board. 

Also your Proto will break in alot compared to how it is pressing now, especially if u keep on it. I also found nose and tail rolls to be a good starting point for buttering.

Just doing a butter spin is pretty easy, nose and tail rolls, but connecting them with 180's with a little speed is where shit gets fun and real....360's too but I have only done a couple of those much less figured out how to press into one.


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## Karasene (Oct 20, 2010)

Butters are my pocket trick. Funnest thing to do on a board especially when you're hauling ass. I ride a really wide stance so I can't compare ease between narrow or not. Softer board helps a lot obviously. Good luck.


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## CassMT (Mar 14, 2013)

Just don't do it under the chair all day, ppl will think ski ballet has made a comeback


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## snowklinger (Aug 30, 2011)

*Fuck yes*

I just watched that video.....fuck, that bs 3 he does off the hip ....really?!?!?! fuck I'm so stoked to go out there and hurt myself this week.

BTW when I said fuck around with your edges, its basically what he's doing then you get comfy enough with it you just install presses.

I may be a sap, romcoms don't do much for me, but this shit seriously gets me all veclempt and inspired and shit.






his thanks at the end are awesome, his son, wife makin dinner and not having to do yard work. What a hero.


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## Karasene (Oct 20, 2010)

It was his son that did the 360 hence the title "real snowboarder" which is what he wants to be. He's doing it tho! Sure that guy will be able to do 3's in no time.


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## slyder (Jan 18, 2010)

Karasene said:


> It was his son that did the 360 hence the title "real snowboarder" which is what he wants to be. He's doing it tho! Sure that guy will be able to do 3's in no time.


looks like I found my inspiration to work on my buttering next year. My body doesn't bend well these days, and much younger than him. So I may have to give it a shot. 
Great to see another dad riding with his kid


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## CassMT (Mar 14, 2013)

I was just messin' of course, very cool...when I'm 64 I hope I can butter f'ing muffin! Lol


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## MarshallV82 (Apr 6, 2011)

Guy is a Boss!
I plan on riding and biking past my 70's as well if I last that long! 

Anyway, it's all about practice! It sucks to go back on mellow open slopes to goof around but it helps.


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## snowklinger (Aug 30, 2011)

Karasene said:


> It was his son that did the 360 hence the title "real snowboarder" which is what he wants to be. He's doing it tho! Sure that guy will be able to do 3's in no time.


yea his son does a pretty good one but the old man hissself throws a lil bs one off a hip at 2:20.


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## Karasene (Oct 20, 2010)

you got it. hips are the easiest to throw spins off. If that's your goal that's the best place to start getting the swing of it.

EDIT: valuable lesson. Always spin into a hip never away... I learned this the hard way off a big quarter pipe gap hip I committed a BS 3 off the left as a goofy rider... haha.. Fell 15ft outta the sky to flat. but I think this should be common sense. :laugh:


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## chomps1211 (Mar 30, 2011)

*...This is where I'm at after widening my stance.*

Here is an edit of some crappy phone video I had a friend shoot on Sun.

This clip is _NOT_ "Rad or sick!" I've got a _LONG_ way to go to even catch up with the Older Dude, but I am slowly getting it! Widening the stance on both the Rome & NS boards really did help. Feels a bit more stable and I'm getting more height on my presses!

So here is this where I'm at after this weekend's attempts:






Tips to improve welcome! Thanks! :thumbsup:


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## sabatoa (Jan 18, 2011)

That old guy kicks ass. I want that to be me in 30-some years


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## CassMT (Mar 14, 2013)

chomps1211 said:


> Tips to improve welcome! Thanks! :thumbsup:


initiation of all the moves seems good, but last second you do a lil jerk to force it the last 1/3...just hold the position and let it come around on its own, smooth like buttah baby..lil bit faster might make that easier too


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## Donutz (May 12, 2010)

chomps1211 said:


> This clip is _NOT_ "Rad or sick!" I've got a _LONG_ way to go to even catch up with the Older Dude, but I am slowly getting it! Widening the stance on both the Rome & NS boards really did help. Feels a bit more stable and I'm getting more height on my presses!


Your stance doesn't seem unusually wide to me. Must have been pretty narrow before!


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## hktrdr (Apr 3, 2012)

chomps1211 said:


> Here is an edit of some crappy phone video I had a friend shoot on Sun.
> 
> This clip is _NOT_ "Rad or sick!" I've got a _LONG_ way to go to even catch up with the Older Dude, but I am slowly getting it! Widening the stance on both the Rome & NS boards really did help. Feels a bit more stable and I'm getting more height on my presses!
> 
> ...


Most obvious area for improvement is to really hold the press/balance on one leg (or the nose/tail of the board, respectively) throughout those butters. To be balanced, you should more or less stay in the same position relative to the board.
Instead of what seems to be happening, is that your position is static overall - so relative to the board it changes over the course of the trick. As a result, by the time that the rotation is almost complete you are out of balance and you have a hard time to continue to hold the press. That is probably why you are resorting to the rushed/lurching motion at the end to complete the rotation before you have to put the board down.


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## Littlebigdreams (Jan 27, 2011)

Your stance seems fine and i bet you will learn some great tricks in no time. 

there are many buttering videos online, combined with what you've seen from SA you should have more than enough learning material for simple buttering moves. 

i just want to share some slightly more advanced moves to give you food for thought 

1. i find it easier/cooler to tailpress by starting with a nollie then shifting weight to the tail. you can press longer and it looks nicer. similarly, jumping a 180 or 270 into presses helped me learn my butters because i can use the rotation in the jump to help me spin while i press, and again looks nicer  please note that you need to make fine adjustments with your toe/heel to complete the full 360 rotation.

-ps. to get into a deeper flex when you press, bend one leg and extend the other, then slowly straighten/extend the bent leg and your press will be much higher. be prepared to fall a lot before you figure out the balance point though.

2. you can link your pivot 180 noserolls with a sudden shift in weight to the switch nose and then spin another 180 or 360 air, looks very cool. similarly, an easier version would be pivote 270 noseroll + switch 270 out 

3. you can also try jumping 180s and landing with tailpresses and continue to this nonstop. similarly, you can always link ground 180s or 360s with butters.


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