# Snow tires?



## Fire Rose (Feb 15, 2016)

Up until now I've had convenient access to a my family's Subaru or 4WD Explorer. But I've finally moved out, and it would be an extra 30 minute drive to my parents to get the car, when it is only a 45 min drive to the mountain from my place. So since that isn't really practical, my plan is to use my car unless I know chains will be required before I leave. I would love to be able to get an AWD car but that isn't possible right now.
My daily driver is a 2013 Civic Coupe. I want to get good studless snow tires for it and will have to get chains as well. I live near Seattle and go to Snoqualmie. Obviously even if I plan to try not to drive in chains required conditions, the conditions can get bad throughout the day. The parking lots and roads leading to them can be pretty bad at times as well. Does anybody have recommendations for good snow tires? It looks like the Winterforce and Blizzaks are popular. Does anybody have experience with these or any other tires? When is generally the best time to buy winter tires?


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## Bataleon85 (Apr 29, 2017)

I usually roll with whatever has a hard enough compound and aggressive enough tread to bite but to date, the best performance I've had on my truck was Yokohama geolandars. They tear up snow like it's nothing. As an example, I drove 2 hours to go ride through a foot+ an hour storm with no problems at all, snow poured down all day and I bombed through it. Never spun, never skidded. Wasn't til I got home that night that I couldn't push the 4 feet of snow out of my driveway that I had to call it a night til the plows came.... But since you're driving a passenger car, I'd check out the Yokohama ice guards, but be sure you get the snow specific one since there's an all season one as well. I recommended them to my mom for her Mini and she loved them in the snow, and that's coming from a little old lady who's scared of driving haha...


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## Psi-Man (Aug 31, 2009)

On a car the Blizzaks will make a world of difference. Dedicated rims for the snow tires is a better IMO unless you get the free changeover option, but scheduling can be a pain. That may be different in your area though.


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## WasabiCanuck (Apr 29, 2015)

I have Nokian WRG3 tires on my van, they are great in winter. Best part is you don't have to change them. They are All-weather winter rated tire that you can use all year round. Very good tire. Check them out if you don't want to change tires or if storage is a problem.


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## freshy (Nov 18, 2009)

I've had good experiences with Blizzaks like 17 years ago, Nokian - Hakapolita (or something like that) Michelin - Xi3. I think the Nokians were the cheapest and handled just as well as the other two. They were all on a Golf TDI and did tons of winter driving in the BC interior and the coast/island and I never once had to put chains on.


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## Rogue (Nov 29, 2014)

I made this thread 2 years ago...lots of suggestions in here and definitely worth getting. I got mine at Costco for a good price in November, I've got two seasons so far, but this will probably do them after its done. 

http://www.snowboardingforum.com/snowboarding-general-chat/188186-snow-tires-they-worth.html


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## Clayton Bigsby (Oct 23, 2012)

Whatever you deside on, look on Craigslist always numerous sets on there


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## Fire Rose (Feb 15, 2016)

Rogue said:


> I made this thread 2 years ago...lots of suggestions in here and definitely worth getting. I got mine at Costco for a good price in November, I've got two seasons so far, but this will probably do them after its done.
> 
> http://www.snowboardingforum.com/snowboarding-general-chat/188186-snow-tires-they-worth.html


Thanks! I'll take a look at that thread.

Anybody have recommendations on chains or are they all about equal? I'm worried about having trouble installing and tightening them since I will be by myself. They fairly regularly require chains on all vehicles except AWD and they are legally required to be carried in all cars in the winter.


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## snowklinger (Aug 30, 2011)

*snow tire = game changer*

Blizzaks were probably my least favorite of 5 or so different snowtires i've used in the last 5 or 6 years. Probably the best highway performance, but terrible tread life and while the snow tech is there, it functions just OK as opposed to very well from some other manufacturers.

Generals were the best I've used, great tread life, aggressive snow traction. Maybe not the quietest highway tire but considering this is the tire that does what i need in ice and snow, i could give a fuck about highway noise. Its not like i'm driving a bently in silence here.

chains are shit fuck


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## Rogue (Nov 29, 2014)

Fire Rose said:


> Thanks! I'll take a look at that thread.
> 
> Anybody have recommendations on chains or are they all about equal? I'm worried about having trouble installing and tightening them since I will be by myself. They fairly regularly require chains on all vehicles except AWD and they are legally required to be carried in all cars in the winter.


If you get snow tires (even studless which i have) you won't use chains, I have yet to need chains in the last 2 seasons and people in the PNW remember how deep both of them were, particularly last season. I only got stuck twice and it was because the snow was packed in the treads and wet/packed in the parking lot. I just waited for a nice guy to give me a nudge and I was on my way (har har perverts). I keep cables in my trunk to pass the "required" situation or if I actually have to put them on. I can put them on in a minute or less, the most difficult part is stretching the bungees to the cables.


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## txb0115 (Sep 20, 2015)

Nokian Hakkapeliitta-8's are the best tires I've ever had. I've had all the rest, Blizzaks, iPikes, X-ice... 

The Nokians are the best, they are spendy though. I thought all the reviews were just hyperbol till I got them, as I said, I've owned all those other "top" rated tires over the years. The reviews are not wrong. I actually couldn't find a review that they didn't win. The conditions that they really excel in worlds better, than any other tire I've owned is slush/wet snow, they are AMAZING, no other tire is close. In deep snow ( unplowed roads ) they are AMAZING as well. On normal compact snow roads, I'm not sure i could say they are worlds better than any other high-end studded tire, but they still rule... It's the deep snow and slush where those tires are just a complete game changer...

My current ride is FWD and I've never had to chain up, ever... it was plenty snowy here last year and I rode 90+ days, every single storm, with two trips to interior BC as well... if you have the right tires and know how to drive, you shouldn't need chains, my experience is that the thing that will really stop you is deep snow ( high centered) and chains can't mitigate that condition...


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## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

I use general altimax on a front wheel drive wagon up to Baker, they have worked fine, on separate rims, have 4 seasons and expect at least a couple more. As for chains...Les Schawb "Alpine Premier" chains work well, are easy to put on...and if you don't use them, you can return them for a full refund (keep your receipt)


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## lunadeathstryke (Aug 28, 2017)

I grew up on the East Coast (Western, NY) and live in VA now, I still use snows.. I have a Civic SI FWD too so I feel your pain. It definitely has a huge difference with traction alone. I used to drive my car up home a few times a year during the Winter to see my family, but most times I fly or rent due to miles.. She's a 2013 and almost has 84k on her lol.. 

I've tried multiple brands and I stay on the mid side price wise.. check the ratings of others' opinions too.. I've had Bridgestones' Blizzaks, General Altimax, and Pirelli's.. Depends how much you want to drop.. where you live (how long will you use your snows for?), etc. 

I know here in VA I use my snows maybe for 3-4 months tops.. and take them off (get steelies too just easier to pop on/off), directional or not.. I've had both.. makes no difference.. also, how much snow do you get.. if you get tons of snow.. and drive up the mountains... depending how well they plow (I cannot take my car to Snowshoe, WV even with snows.. I'll just slide down the mountain can only get up there with an SUV (AWD/4WD). But if you will use them a lot and will be on your car, take that into consideration in how often you think you'll need to replace them, etc. 

Hope you find something good!


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## Fire Rose (Feb 15, 2016)

lunadeathstryke said:


> I grew up on the East Coast (Western, NY) and live in VA now, I still use snows.. I have a Civic SI FWD too so I feel your pain. It definitely has a huge difference with traction alone. I used to drive my car up home a few times a year during the Winter to see my family, but most times I fly or rent due to miles.. She's a 2013 and almost has 84k on her lol..
> 
> I've tried multiple brands and I stay on the mid side price wise.. check the ratings of others' opinions too.. I've had Bridgestones' Blizzaks, General Altimax, and Pirelli's.. Depends how much you want to drop.. where you live (how long will you use your snows for?), etc.
> 
> ...


Price wise, mid range is probably what I'm aiming for. I don't need the best tire available, but I don't want to cheap out. I still have access to my family's AWD cars if I know the conditions will be bad. Plus when there is any significant snow accumulation on the road they require chains on all but AWD. Our season goes from early December to the end of April, but I probably wouldn't need the snow tires after about mid-march depending on conditions. Between driving to the mountain twice a weekend, plus any nights I can get out for, extra trips, and commuting to work I'm probably looking at around 6000 miles for the season.
I will be doing more driving on dry or wet pavement than on snow/ice, so the performance in those conditions are important as well.


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## lunadeathstryke (Aug 28, 2017)

Fire Rose said:


> Price wise, mid range is probably what I'm aiming for. I don't need the best tire available, but I don't want to cheap out. I still have access to my family's AWD cars if I know the conditions will be bad. Plus when there is any significant snow accumulation on the road they require chains on all but AWD. Our season goes from early December to the end of April, but I probably wouldn't need the snow tires after about mid-march depending on conditions. Between driving to the mountain twice a weekend, plus any nights I can get out for, extra trips, and commuting to work I'm probably looking at around 6000 miles for the season.
> I will be doing more driving on dry or wet pavement than on snow/ice, so the performance in those conditions are important as well.


Ahh gotcha.. I'd try the Blizzaks or Altimax.. they've always been good to me and get me through tough times! I'm not sure what state you live in.. but even in my FWD SI I've been able to plow through the snow on either tire and not get stuck. I've been to maneuver easily with either too and they're both reasonably priced and always last me at least 2 winters. This will probably be my last year on my snows if I use them.. Not sure I will, just bought brand new really good all-seasons, but if snow starts in Nov here.. they're getting put on.. Suppose to be bad this year but we will see.. I only get to ride in PA if I drive up maybe once in the season and then out west once.. sometimes I get to WV but it's rare.. I've only been to that resort twice since riding for the last 4 years. 

Tirerack, discountiredirect.com, and there's another.. I just bought my all-seasons from discounttiredirect.. did their stupid credit card got a $50 gift card in the mail.. spent I think about 500ish.. give or take.. great tire so far and bought about 3 months ago.. But I also commute about 18 miles roundtrip a day to/from work lol. But about to lose my job so I won't have any miles on her unless it's for interviews


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## freshy (Nov 18, 2009)

If price is a concern just get low end snows and get some studs installed. I have some shit tire on my Focus but I got them studded and that car can do anything in the snow, except donuts and e-brake drifts. Damn crazy traction.


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## lunadeathstryke (Aug 28, 2017)

freshy said:


> If price is a concern just get low end snows and get some studs installed. I have some shit tire on my Focus but I got them studded and that car can do anything in the snow, except donuts and e-brake drifts. Damn crazy traction.


Dang your state allows studs? I know some don't.. LOL crazy.. I kind of always wanted to know what those were like driving around or chains haha.. Chains are not allowed here in VA, but pretty sure NY is fine with them.. Studs not sure, as I never needed them especially in VA.. NY perhaps


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## Fire Rose (Feb 15, 2016)

freshy said:


> If price is a concern just get low end snows and get some studs installed. I have some shit tire on my Focus but I got them studded and that car can do anything in the snow, except donuts and e-brake drifts. Damn crazy traction.


I definitely do not want studs.


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## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

Fire Rose said:


> I definitely do not want studs.


ehmm...u like studs and chains


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## Bataleon85 (Apr 29, 2017)

I'm going to reiterate that Yokohama geolandars/ice guards (truck/car respectively) are excellent snow tires in an affordable price range. I've driven in torrential blizzards with the Geo's and my mom's Mini got her around through several winters with the ice guards. Really nice tires for around or under 100 a piece depending on size. I rock 16x8" wheels on my truck and the 265/75s were $319 shipped for a set of four. 

Sent from my SM-G935T using Tapatalk


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## freshy (Nov 18, 2009)

wrathfuldeity said:


> ehmm...u like studs and chains


Studs go so well with S&M. Snow and mud.


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## freshy (Nov 18, 2009)

lunadeathstryke said:


> Dang your state allows studs? I know some don't.. LOL crazy.. I kind of always wanted to know what those were like driving around or chains haha.. Chains are not allowed here in VA, but pretty sure NY is fine with them.. Studs not sure, as I never needed them especially in VA.. NY perhaps


I'm in Canada, BC. We can run studs Oct - Apr or something like that.

Driving with studs is the same as any other tire except you can hear the metal tapping if there is no snow and your driving slow. Driving with chains is a pain because you can go 30-50km/h 20-30mph, plus you have to get out in shit weather and put them on/take em off.


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## Fire Rose (Feb 15, 2016)

freshy said:


> I'm in Canada, BC. We can run studs Oct - Apr or something like that.
> 
> Driving with studs is the same as any other tire except you can hear the metal tapping if there is no snow and your driving slow. Driving with chains is a pain because you can go 30-50km/h 20-30mph, plus you have to get out in shit weather and put them on/take em off.


We can have studded tires Nov-Mar but I don't want the extra road noise. Washington requires chains even if you have studded tires. However, I did find a set of studded Nokian Hakkapeliitta r2 tires with wheels on Craigslist for $200. They claim they have only been used for a very short time. According to Google it looks like I could get the studs removed if they really drive me crazy? Looks like a good deal but I'm a little hesitant to buy used tires.


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## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

go take a look at them, they should have plenty of tred and stud showing. Search a pic of using a nickle (coin) to gauge the tred. 2 bills is a great price for low milage 4 tires with wheels...if the bolt pattern fits your car.


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## Fire Rose (Feb 15, 2016)

wrathfuldeity said:


> go take a look at them, they should have plenty of tred and stud showing. Search a pic of using a nickle (coin) to gauge the tred. 2 bills is a great price for low milage 4 tires with wheels...if the bolt pattern fits your car.


The ad says they were on a 2012 Toyota Yaris. From what I can find online it looks like the wheels will not work with my car?
Still a good deal if I have to buy different wheels?


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## f00bar (Mar 6, 2014)

Anyone have some real world data on Blizzak WS80 tread wear life? I'd like to get at least 20k out of them, about 3 years, but I'm seeing some stuff that is saying 6-8k?? That seems crazy. Winter roads for the most part are pretty clean here other than storm days.


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## Psi-Man (Aug 31, 2009)

With good alignment, etc., maybe 10K. They simply wear quick on pavement. The other option is to just use two on the front and keep your all season tires on the rear (assuming front wheel drive).


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## Jonny C (Mar 16, 2017)

Dunlop WinterSport 5 or Michelin Alpin 5


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## say chi sin lo (Oct 15, 2009)

Noob question here.

But is it true that on a FWD car, the fresher set on the rear to prevent fish tailing? Where as the driven wheels will have the more-worn set?

On one hand, it makes sense with the fish tailing statement. But, I'm from the school where the fresher tire goes on the wheels that are being driven.

Thanks!


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## Jonny C (Mar 16, 2017)

say chi sin lo said:


> Noob question here.
> 
> But is it true that on a FWD car, the fresher set on the rear to prevent fish tailing? Where as the driven wheels will have the more-worn set?
> 
> Thanks!



Yes it is. Also for cars that have FR. Only cars with FF should have new tires on the front.


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## chomps1211 (Mar 30, 2011)

*Full Convert....*

I grew up in MI. Got my license & Learned to drive in the snow. I've _never_ used snow tires before. Not once in 40 years. 

I generally sneered at the idea that snow tires were a necessity. I figured stupidity, lack of skill & experience was what made all the difference with the yahoos getting stuck & having accidents. :dunno:

I recently put some Nokian, Hakkapallitta7's on the new Subaru and drove them for the first time in a storm the other night,....

..._NOW_ Im kicking myself in the ass for suffering thru 40 years of "white knuckle" winter driving!! :facepalm3: 


Btw,... got an *Amazing* deal on them thru Discount Tire. $129 ea. mounted. With a $100 rebate for buying a set of 4. And _another_ $60 rebate for paying with the DT credit card. (6 mo intrest free!) :jumping1:


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## say chi sin lo (Oct 15, 2009)

Jonny C said:


> Yes it is. Also for cars that have FR. Only cars with FF should have new tires on the front.


So I just want to clarify, because it's sounding contradicting.

FF should have the newer tries up front, so the worn set goes to the rear (non-driven wheels).

Doesn't that go against my original inquiry? (Fresh tires goes to the rear, non-driven wheels to prevent fish tailing. Worn tires goes up front to the driven wheels)

Thanks!


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## f00bar (Mar 6, 2014)

say chi sin lo said:


> So I just want to clarify, because it's sounding contradicting.
> 
> FF should have the newer tries up front, so the worn set goes to the rear (non-driven wheels).
> 
> ...


General consensus is better tires always on the rear. Above all you want to prevent the ass of your car getting ahead of you.

Truthfully though if you care enough at all just spend the extra money and get all 4.


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## say chi sin lo (Oct 15, 2009)

f00bar said:


> General consensus is better tires always on the rear. Above all you want to prevent the ass of your car getting ahead of you.
> 
> Truthfully though if you care enough at all just spend the extra money and get all 4.


I have a set of Dunlop Winter Sport 3D, I've had it for several seasons and if you want to count it by rotation, this set is probably on its last rotation. 2 tires don't look that good, and the other 2 looks like it'll give me one final winter. That's why I asked about the true logic behind treadwear and proper tire orientation.

But, if it's true that the fresher set goes on the rear, then I may have to invest in a new set of tires. Last winter, I had the fresher two go on the back (as recommended), and placed the deader set on the front and I was not getting much traction. Definitely don't want to go through that again.

Thank you all! Looks like I'll have to get new tires now. By the way, if anyone is interested, those Dunlop Winter Sport 3D were AWESOME and they can be had for slightly less than the famed Blizzaks.


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## freshy (Nov 18, 2009)

f00bar said:


> General consensus is better tires always on the rear. Above all you want to prevent the ass of your car getting ahead of you.
> 
> Truthfully though if you care enough at all just spend the extra money and get all 4.


Tire shops here will not mount 2 tires, say it's too dangerous.


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## Jonny C (Mar 16, 2017)

say chi sin lo said:


> So I just want to clarify, because it's sounding contradicting.
> 
> FF should have the newer tries up front, so the worn set goes to the rear (non-driven wheels).
> 
> ...


I was confused with the FWD definition which I understood later its Forward Wheel Drive. Normally FWD cars are know by FF cars.
It depends mostly on the type of the car. You cannot use as a general rule for FF cars to say that the newer tires are on the back. If you have a station wagon for example like an Audi A4 station wagon then you should put the newer tires on the back. The same applies for the Audi S4 with AWD (all wheel drive).

But having an Audi A3 Sportback, also as sport's van with FF, the newer tires should be placed on the front, not on the back.

So it depends on the models and we cannot say by definition that all the new tires goes to the back instead of the front. 

Imagine a Chevrolet Spark with newer tires on the back, where most of the weight of the car is more placed on the front wheels instead of the back. It does not make much sense that a car like this will tail-slide, normally it looses control on the front of the car, not on the back.

I would inquiry the brand of your car about your car model to understand where you should place the newer tires.


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## Argo (Feb 25, 2010)

freshy said:


> Tire shops here will not mount 2 tires, say it's too dangerous.


Maybe not in BC but probably in MA.... They will in OR too, at least in Bend. Mabye not at a big national tire chain that wants to sell you more tires but they will at most average tire shops. 

It is definitely not a good thing to do on an AWD car.


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## rivermanzito (Jan 19, 2017)

I'm driving a 99' Toyota Rav4 4x4. I just put some new Nokian's Rotiiva AT's on, and they are fantastic. They are all-season with a severe mountain snowflake rating. I don't have storage to switch out rims for winter tires, and have to drive highway often.


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## Triple8Sol (Nov 24, 2008)

I'm late to the game, but the drive to Snoqualmie is fine. Snow tires + carrying chains just in case, you'll be totally fine. The only time it gets a little sketchy is coming back downhill at night when it's icy and bad visibility, in which case you'd have the chains on anyways.


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## freshy (Nov 18, 2009)

Argo said:


> Maybe not in BC but probably in MA.... They will in OR too, at least in Bend. Mabye not at a big national tire chain that wants to sell you more tires but they will at most average tire shops.
> 
> It is definitely not a good thing to do on an AWD car.


Actually in BC now you are required to have winters or at least the mountain or snowflake stamp on your tires to drive on almost every highway not just the mountain passes. If you get into an accident and it was 100% the other guys fault and you don't have the proper tires the law will see it as your fault.

I always assumed the won't mount two tires thing was just a way to sell more tires too. But it's also not surprising since the pussification of society has been in full swing for a while now.


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## speedjason (May 2, 2013)

I sold my big SUV and bought a Subaru but I put high performance all season Continental DWS06 on the car. We will see if they are good in snow as what people claim.


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## mojo maestro (Jan 6, 2009)

All season............are not snow tires..............


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## Fire Rose (Feb 15, 2016)

Triple8Sol said:


> I'm late to the game, but the drive to Snoqualmie is fine. Snow tires + carrying chains just in case, you'll be totally fine. The only time it gets a little sketchy is coming back downhill at night when it's icy and bad visibility, in which case you'd have the chains on anyways.


Very late... I got my tires over the summer, picked up the set of used Nokian Studded tires. Probably don't need studded tires because of Washington chain requirements, but I got a good deal.
Went up to Stevens Monday and it was my first time driving them on any snow and felt fine. I did get stuck trying to park and had to chain up but I blame that on the extra crappy parking lot conditions.


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## f00bar (Mar 6, 2014)

mojo maestro said:


> All season............are not snow tires..............


But everyone doesn't need a 'snow tire'. As soon as costco runs their $70off special on goodriches I'll be picking up a set up Advantage TA that are all season and also 3peak rated.

Will they be as good as the blizzacks I considered? Nope, not even close. But for the half dozen times a year roads are less than dry they should do the trick and not leave most of my tire on dry roads and need replacing every 2 years.


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## 16gkid (Dec 5, 2012)

If budget is an issue, you could always search on craigslist, I was able to find a set of steelies for my mazda 3 with tires on them and a set of barely used blizzaks that were on a different set of steelies both from craigslist for 400, had my buddy swap the tires out and sold the all seasons for 100 bucks, so 300 dollars for winter tires mounted to a different set of wheels, cant beat that!
Also for people asking about blizzak tire life, I rode on them last march and encountered temps from the 20's up the 60's, did 6800 miles plus whatever the previous owner did and they looked really good and ready for another season or two, but I drove very gently on them and smoothly. Are there better tires? sure but if you are a competent driver, they will get you where you need to go.


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## speedjason (May 2, 2013)

mojo maestro said:


> All season............are not snow tires..............


Some all seasons are pretty good but definitely not as good as snow tires for sure. Where I live, it's not mountainy or a lot of snow.


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## snowklinger (Aug 30, 2011)

*fwiw......*

that continental all season has the extreme snowflake and a 7.9 for snow/ice from tire rack though

pretty juicy lookin tire

in related news I just got General Altimax Arctics ordered for both cars gettin installed tomorrow and fri, let it snow


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## Bataleon85 (Apr 29, 2017)

My girlfriend's Impreza sucks complete ass in even a little slush with all seasons. I bought her some Yokohama Ice Guards and now the thing is a beast. Passenger car version of the Geolandars my truck wears. Either of them are by far the best snow tires for the money that I've had. I've plowed through 3-4 foot deep snow and held the road in icy slush slop without incident. Naturally, a Subie is gonna bottom out before a truck will, but you get the idea. The only tire I've been able to do more with were straight up mud tires and you don't wanna run them year round unless you like rotating and buying tires all the time. 

But, back to the Yokos, I've also read quite a few comparison charts on snow tires and consumers' general consensus tends to be in the same ballpark. Ice Guards/Geolandars are amazing tires for any price point.


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## f00bar (Mar 6, 2014)

The subaru oems are abhorrent in the snow/ice. It's what I currently have on them and I've gotten stuck trying to plow through the snow at the end of my driveway. They are put on for one reason, to up the gas mileage rating on the car. 

There are some decent all seasons out there now, good enough to get most people through a winter depending where you live. And there's a whole new generation of them coming out that are winter rated.


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## Argo (Feb 25, 2010)

f00bar said:


> The subaru oems are abhorrent in the snow/ice. It's what I currently have on them and I've gotten stuck trying to plow through the snow at the end of my driveway. They are put on for one reason, to up the gas mileage rating on the car.
> 
> There are some decent all seasons out there now, good enough to get most people through a winter depending where you live. And there's a whole new generation of them coming out that are winter rated.


We have not had any issues with the stock tires on our new Subaru.

I will give another plug to Goodyear Duratrac for truck tires though. I just put a new set on my truck, I got 65k miles out of my last set and probably could have gone another 15k if I didn't have to worry about serious winter driving.... This is my 3rd set of these tires on this truck. It is really hard to find good tires for HD lifted trucks that do both things that are important to me, work well in snow/ice + last a long time.


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## snowklinger (Aug 30, 2011)

Argo said:


> We have not had any issues with the stock tires on our new Subaru.
> 
> I will give another plug to Goodyear Duratrac for truck tires though. I just put a new set on my truck, I got 65k miles out of my last set and probably could have gone another 15k if I didn't have to worry about serious winter driving.... This is my 3rd set of these tires on this truck. It is really hard to find good tires for HD lifted trucks that do both things that are important to me, work well in snow/ice + last a long time.


thats some epic mileage, nearly triple what you see for some sedan snowflake tires. (how much do u spend per tire? say a michellin or bridgestone sedan snow is like 120 a tire before install, could look it up but you probably buying some big mafks)

pretty sure my blizzaks last year went bald after 2 trips to summit county.

u leave those puppies on all year?


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## f00bar (Mar 6, 2014)

Argo said:


> We have not had any issues with the stock tires on our new Subaru.
> 
> I will give another plug to Goodyear Duratrac for truck tires though. I just put a new set on my truck, I got 65k miles out of my last set and probably could have gone another 15k if I didn't have to worry about serious winter driving.... This is my 3rd set of these tires on this truck. It is really hard to find good tires for HD lifted trucks that do both things that are important to me, work well in snow/ice + last a long time.


My 2015 came with Bridgestones. Some quick googles will back up my claim they are terrible. Hopefully they've changed since then?


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## Argo (Feb 25, 2010)

snowklinger said:


> thats some epic mileage, nearly triple what you see for some sedan snowflake tires. (how much do u spend per tire? say a michellin or bridgestone sedan snow is like 120 a tire before install, could look it up but you probably buying some big mafks)
> 
> pretty sure my blizzaks last year went bald after 2 trips to summit county.
> 
> u leave those puppies on all year?


Yeah, all year tire for me. They are expensive if you compare them to a passenger tire, they are on the upper end of truck tires too. They run around $400/tire for 35" size... I could do 37" but my mileage would take a harder hit.


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## Argo (Feb 25, 2010)

f00bar said:


> My 2015 came with Bridgestones. Some quick googles will back up my claim they are terrible. Hopefully they've changed since then?


Gotcha, ours is a 2018 with Yokohama


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## chomps1211 (Mar 30, 2011)

Argo said:


> Gotcha, ours is a 2018 with Yokohama


So no issues with those in the ice & slush, mountain driving? That's good to hear. 

I had read several bad reviews on the stock Yoko's & decided to spring for the Nokian Hakkapallita 7's on my CrossTrek. 

I got an awesome deal on them and they seemed to perform exceedingly well during our last couple snowstorms and on this recent Boyne trip. So no regrets either way.


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## linvillegorge (Jul 6, 2009)

The Duratracs might be solid (I've never ran them) but honestly, after my last three experiences with Goodyear I wouldn't take a set of their tires if they'd give them to me for free. My first set of Silent Armors were AWESOME tires. Hence why I had to get burned 3x before I finally threw in the towel. The Tripletreds suck ass. Great tires for the first 50% of their tread (which amounts to about 10k miles) and then the base compound wears like iron to give them their tread life and unfortunately provides about that same amount of traction. Last two sets of Silent Armors were awful. Out of the 8 tires, three had persistent slow leaks that never did get solved and two catastrophic blowouts. Fuck Goodyear.

On the Jeep, I run nothing but Super Swampers but it sees 2-3k miles of total use per year. Probably 80% of that is off-road.

Next set on the Yukon will probably be Nokian WRG3s.


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## linvillegorge (Jul 6, 2009)

f00bar said:


> My 2015 came with Bridgestones. Some quick googles will back up my claim they are terrible. Hopefully they've changed since then?


The tires that came on my work provided 2016 Outback were beyond shit. Literal dog shit smeared onto the wheels would've been an upgrade. Fortunately, on top of being horrifically awful tires, they provided less tread life than a Super Swamper. They had cords showing by 25k.


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## hikeswithdogs (Sep 23, 2011)

linvillegorge said:


> The Duratracs might be solid (I've never ran them) but honestly, after my last three experiences with Goodyear I wouldn't take a set of their tires if they'd give them to me for free. My first set of Silent Armors were AWESOME tires. Hence why I had to get burned 3x before I finally threw in the towel. The Tripletreds suck ass. Great tires for the first 50% of their tread (which amounts to about 10k miles) and then the base compound wears like iron to give them their tread life and unfortunately provides about that same amount of traction. Last two sets of Silent Armors were awful. Out of the 8 tires, three had persistent slow leaks that never did get solved and two catastrophic blowouts. Fuck Goodyear.
> 
> On the Jeep, I run nothing but Super Swampers but it sees 2-3k miles of total use per year. Probably 80% of that is off-road.
> 
> Next set on the Yukon will probably be Nokian WRG3s.


3 years with 17\285 load range D Duratracs and they were FANTASTIC on the snow ice but now that they have 40K miles on them they've lost their "bite" pretty common for any AT

One thing I don't see mention is that if you do have dedicated snow tires it tends ot extend the life of your NON-WINTER tires by quite a bit.

I got a full set of "eagle claw" snow tires new off of the local craigslist for a 100$ and they work incredible


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## linvillegorge (Jul 6, 2009)

Wait a minute... you're telling me that not using tires for a good chunk of the year makes them last longer? No way!


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## f00bar (Mar 6, 2014)

hikeswithdogs said:


> I got a full set of "eagle claw" snow tires new off of the local craigslist for a 100$ and they work incredible


Did you notice that car on blocks a few houses down from the guy you bought them from? 

I'm half joking on that. I personally have never had much luck finding anything on craigs and the questionable shadiness of some of the deals make me not try to hard.


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## linvillegorge (Jul 6, 2009)

f00bar said:


> Did you notice that car on blocks a few houses down from the guy you bought them from?
> 
> I'm half joking on that. I personally have never had much luck finding anything on craigs and the questionable shadiness of some of the deals make me not try to hard.


That and the fact that most of the snow tires you find on CL are <50% tread and into their base compound and essentially worthless at that point.


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## hikeswithdogs (Sep 23, 2011)

linvillegorge said:


> That and the fact that most of the snow tires you find on CL are <50% tread and into their base compound and essentially worthless at that point.



That is ABSOLUTELY true, in our case this lady bought them, used them for two weeks and then sold her car not realizing she couldn't transfer the snow tires she just bought to her new mini-van.........I win 

They still have the treadpaint and little pointy nub things :-D



linvillegorge said:


> Wait a minute... you're telling me that not using tires for a good chunk of the year makes them last longer? No way!


Ha ha, yep just trying to help people cost justify them.......selfishly because I'm safer in the canyon when EVERYONE has snow tires


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## Triple8Sol (Nov 24, 2008)

Just picked up a new set of AT's for my Jeep, the Falken Wildpeak AT3W LT's which have the mountain snowflake symbol. It falls into the newer hybrid category where it's not more extreme than a regular AT but not quite a mudder, usually with less spacing between tread blocks and a little more siping. Have only had the chance to drive in snow once with them on so far, but already a huge improvement over the Firestone AT's I had on previously. For reference, other options in this newer sub-category are the BFG K02, Goodyear Duratrac, Nitto Ridge Grappler, and Cooper ST Maxx. Only the Wildpeaks, K02's, and Duratracs have the extreme snow rating though.


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## tanscrazydaisy (Mar 11, 2013)

Fire Rose said:


> Thanks! I'll take a look at that thread.
> 
> Anybody have recommendations on chains or are they all about equal? I'm worried about having trouble installing and tightening them since I will be by myself. They fairly regularly require chains on all vehicles except AWD and they are legally required to be carried in all cars in the winter.


Www.vulcantire.com has thule/Koenig chains. Easiest to install

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## speedjason (May 2, 2013)

snowklinger said:


> that continental all season has the extreme snowflake and a 7.9 for snow/ice from tire rack though
> 
> pretty juicy lookin tire
> 
> in related news I just got General Altimax Arctics ordered for both cars gettin installed tomorrow and fri, let it snow


Drove my car in icy/snow yesterday. No drama unless I go full throttle then traction control kicks in a bit as I accelerate quickly.
No problem with braking either, barely any loss of traction compare to dry surfaces.


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## chomps1211 (Mar 30, 2011)

tanscrazydaisy said:


> Buy Tires Online and Read Reviews and Ratings - Vulcan Tire Sales - Tires, TPMS, and More... Falken - Yokohama - Nitto - Kumho - Goodyear - Nexen - RV Tires, Tire Reviews and more... has thule/Koenig chains. Easiest to install
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk


Just wanted to say thanks for that link. Pretty good info on all sorts of chain options. 

Gotta say tho,.. altho they claim very easy install? (...and having _*never*_ had to chain up myself to be able to know the diff!). Those Koenig things actually _look_ crazy complicated. Lol


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## snowklinger (Aug 30, 2011)

*snow tires are fucking rad*

Seems like chains are from a time when we didnt know about or have snow tires.

Get snow tires...

..or some a them new all seasons with a snowflake.

Driving with chains on sucks, putting chains on sucks, everything about chains sucks unless you're a commercial vehicle in the mountains.

If you can afford this sport and a hundred bucks or so on chains, u can afford like 300 more bucks and get a set of winter tires. (its not even extra after the initial price, you still have to use tires)

In my experience you can actually drive faster with more control with snowtires than you can with chains as well, not to mention the comfort (running chains is like being on a washboard surface) and not worrying a chain breaks and tears apart your quarterpanel.

No skin off my back either way but i guarantee satisfaction and success to the alternative.

U may as well hitchhike!


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## tanscrazydaisy (Mar 11, 2013)

chomps1211 said:


> Just wanted to say thanks for that link. Pretty good info on all sorts of chain options.
> 
> Gotta say tho,.. altho they claim very easy install? (...and having _*never*_ had to chain up myself to be able to know the diff!). Those Koenig things actually _look_ crazy complicated. Lol


I had Thule cb12 on the old car to make up the steep hill to my house. Easy to install. Watch YouTube videos and practice at home first

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## Argo (Feb 25, 2010)

Chains have their place regardless of the tires you have. Especiallyif you live somewhere that cops actually check equipment before you can drive to the mountains... generally awd and real snow tires get you passed at the check point. They will turn you around with fwd and snow tires though... i have hit check points in WA, OR, WY, CA, NV, BC and ID. 

Colorado doesn't do a fuckin thing about driving to the mountains in a rear wheel drive pickup with bald tires though.... you can spin your tires while sliding down the mountains backwards and highway patrol just cruises by.



snowklinger said:


> Seems like chains are from a time when we didnt know about or have snow tires.
> 
> Get snow tires...
> 
> ...


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## dannyboy617 (Nov 10, 2017)

I bought some Michelin Xi3 tires for this winter from Costco. Cost $430 balanced and installed. Picked up some Steelies from a junk yard for $50 ea.

Went up to Mt Snow when they got 14" of snow a few weeks ago. Had no problem getting home in my honda accord. Definitely worth the purchase.

I drive 100 miles a day for work so I got the Michelin's since they have the 40k mile warranty. TireRack says they have better tread wear than Blizzaks.


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## snowklinger (Aug 30, 2011)

Argo said:


> Chains have their place regardless of the tires you have. Especiallyif you live somewhere that cops actually check equipment before you can drive to the mountains... generally awd and real snow tires get you passed at the check point. They will turn you around with fwd and snow tires though... i have hit check points in WA, OR, WY, CA, NV, BC and ID.
> 
> Colorado doesn't do a fuckin thing about driving to the mountains in a rear wheel drive pickup with bald tires though.... you can spin your tires while sliding down the mountains backwards and highway patrol just cruises by.


i thought if u have snowflake tires u pass the chain checkups in other states ! word! you would know lol. i have only done CO and CA traction law thingies.

supposedly they have been cracking down on ppl without traction here since u left, ie. if u are disabled and have bad tires, u get a ticket (if traction law is in effect)

still i'd just want to have the snowtires anyway u know!


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## Argo (Feb 25, 2010)

snowklinger said:


> i thought if u have snowflake tires u pass the chain checkups in other states ! word! you would know lol. i have only done CO and CA traction law thingies.
> 
> supposedly they have been cracking down on ppl without traction here since u left, ie. if u are disabled and have bad tires, u get a ticket (if traction law is in effect)
> 
> still i'd just want to have the snowtires anyway u know!


I do not carry chains. AWD and traction tires give you a pass, 2wd gets no pass without chains.

There is a higher level of control that requires awd/4wd to have chains too.... usually the road closes at that point. With higher clearance on my truck, 4wd and snow tires I have had CHP and OSP let me pass during the higher levels of chain control when they are closed and waiting for plows to clear the road. I drive ALOT and have no problem driving past the line of cars to talk to the patrol, usually they are cool with me driving ahead. I put over 60k miles on my truck this year, my ass and thighs are killing me starting the snowboard season....


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## hikeswithdogs (Sep 23, 2011)

Argo said:


> I do not carry chains. AWD and traction tires give you a pass, 2wd gets no pass without chains.
> 
> There is a higher level of control that requires awd/4wd to have chains too.... usually the road closes at that point. With higher clearance on my truck, 4wd and snow tires I have had CHP and OSP let me pass during the higher levels of chain control when they are closed and waiting for plows to clear the road. I drive ALOT and have no problem driving past the line of cars to talk to the patrol, usually they are cool with me driving ahead. I put over 60k miles on my truck this year, my ass and thighs are killing me starting the snowboard season....



They allow studded snow tires in CO?


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## linvillegorge (Jul 6, 2009)

hikeswithdogs said:


> They allow studded snow tires in CO?


Yep, you hear damn fools rolling around on them in June. :laugh2:


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## linvillegorge (Jul 6, 2009)

Got the new shoes put on today


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## tanscrazydaisy (Mar 11, 2013)

linvillegorge said:


> Got the new shoes put on today


Some nokian wr g3 suv?

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## linvillegorge (Jul 6, 2009)

tanscrazydaisy said:


> Some nokian wr g3 suv?
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk


Yep! :grin:


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## tanscrazydaisy (Mar 11, 2013)

linvillegorge said:


> Yep! :grin:


I had the wr g3 assymetric on my old FWD car. When the nitto sn2 wears out on my cute-ute, I'll be replacing them with the nokians 

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## txb0115 (Sep 20, 2015)

I shit you not. Today the road to Snowbasin was fucked ( 17”today ) 

Carnage every where, cars, trucks and everything in the ditch or stuck. I passed multiple 4wds stuck on corners and 4wds in the ditch with my Fwd Transit Connect. 

My tires? Nokian Hakkapeliitta 8s. 

Yes part of this was due to the fact that I am not a fucking idiot and give myself plenty of space to avoid coming to stops any more than necessary, but I had to come to a full stop twice and still got going when 4wds were stuck ( one didn’t appear to have snow tires on ). 

The road got closed by UDOT shortly after I went up.

The tires are expensive, but damn. Worth. Every. Penny.


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## speedjason (May 2, 2013)

No problem in icy snow. No problem in 3 inches of snow either.
Continental DWS06 all seasons.


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## snowklinger (Aug 30, 2011)

speedjason said:


> No problem in icy snow. No problem in 3 inches of snow either.
> Continental DWS06 all seasons.


you're equipped to rip


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## f00bar (Mar 6, 2014)

I have a friend who frozen lake races an old saab 96 or 99, by his own admittance the most craptastic car in a field of mostly bmws. Last week they decided to just run straight blizzaks, he figures >95% of cars run studs.

About 10 races throughout the day, ranging from pure ice in the morning to 3+" of slush over ice by the afternoon they managed 4 2nd places. First race of the day starting in 40th(last) position managed to finish 8th.

20+ years ice racing he'll attest to the blizzaks. He's also the first to say that at half tread they shouldn't be allowed to still have the blizzak name on them.


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## tanscrazydaisy (Mar 11, 2013)

f00bar said:


> I have a friend who frozen lake races an old saab 96 or 99, by his own admittance the most craptastic car in a field of mostly bmws. Last week they decided to just run straight blizzaks, he figures >95% of cars run studs.
> 
> About 10 races throughout the day, ranging from pure ice in the morning to 3+" of slush over ice by the afternoon they managed 4 2nd places. First race of the day starting in 40th(last) position managed to finish 8th.
> 
> 20+ years ice racing he'll attest to the blizzaks. He's also the first to say that at half tread they shouldn't be allowed to still have the blizzak name on them.


That's because the first half they have their multicell-tube compound (whatever they call it) and the last half is just a regular winter compound (WS and DM series)

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## SlvrDragon50 (Mar 25, 2017)

I wanna throw Blizzaks on my car, but no storage for winter tires, and we don't get enough snow/ice in Illinois to warrant them


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## PlanB (Nov 21, 2014)

Argo said:


> I do not carry chains. AWD and traction tires give you a pass, 2wd gets no pass without chains.
> 
> There is a higher level of control that requires awd/4wd to have chains too.... usually the road closes at that point. With higher clearance on my truck, 4wd and snow tires I have had CHP and OSP let me pass during the higher levels of chain control when they are closed and waiting for plows to clear the road. I drive ALOT and have no problem driving past the line of cars to talk to the patrol, usually they are cool with me driving ahead. I put over 60k miles on my truck this year, my ass and thighs are killing me starting the snowboard season....


Just curious, what happens when they're not cool with you driving ahead and you've just jumped the entire line-up of waiting cars?


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## fullvermonty (Jan 6, 2018)

Vermonter here. 

Get studs.

Yeah, they're a little louder than nonstudded tires. 

Deal with it. 

What is worse, a little road noise, or winding up upside down in a ditch?

I roll in a 4wd Chevy Silverado with studded snows and when I say I roll, I mean I roll, though all weathers, snow, slush, ice, IDGAF, I'm gonna get where I want to go. (I keep towing straps behind the seat and routinely pull less well equipped vehicles out of the ditches.) 

The studs are an order of magnitude better than nonstudded tires of any brand.

Get the studs.


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## SlvrDragon50 (Mar 25, 2017)

fullvermonty said:


> Vermonter here.
> 
> Get studs.
> 
> ...


Check for legality of studs though.


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## Argo (Feb 25, 2010)

PlanB said:


> Just curious, what happens when they're not cool with you driving ahead and you've just jumped the entire line-up of waiting cars?


I pull to the side, go to sleep and wait for them to open the pass. Its happened twice and when i woke up there was njo traffic anymore.


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