# Canting and Binding Performance Issues



## Cyfer (Feb 7, 2013)

I've recently picked up a set of bindings with the option to cant in an effort to save on my knees and legs. Since using them I've noticed a so issues with Heel Side turns. I've been using my Rome 390 Boss for about a month now and every time I use them it feels like I'm constantly tweaking them in an effort to fix the heel side turn issues. Honestly I've given these bindings a fair shot, but always it feels like my heel side turns are going to wash out any minute. In coming from being a dedicated Union user mostly the Force and Contact. Here is the issues I'm having with the heel side;

1) on heel side turns it feels like the sole length is off like the binding is going to wash out in steeps. 

2) on normal turns the heel side turns feel loose and sketchy, like I'm on ice all the time. 

3) on icy patches there is zero grip, the board slides too easily. I use Lib-Tech boards and the only thing that saves most turns is the Magne-Traction edges. Now most people will say don't turn on ice but when you're used to Lib-Tech edges over the years that's tough to ask. 

4) slip sliding in steeps is almost too scary to do properly. Feels like the board is going to pitch forward onto the toe side any second. 

I've been snowboarding for 12+ years and ride pretty aggressively but it feels like these bindings are making me step backwards. I don't give up on gear too easily but I'm at the end of my rope. I've tried these on both my boards, my TRS and most recently my Skate Banana. Both with similar results, I'm about to give up and just sell them off because whenever I use them my day isn't as good. I've used both the 2.0 and 3.5 canting, I'm using more forward lean than I've ever had, tried the straps in multiple locations. Adjusted both stance width and angles but nothing helps. The boots are dead center in the bindings and still ride like they're not. Can it be the canted foot beds that are causing this issue? It's the only idea I have left. Anyone else having similar issues or using Rome bindings here that can give any suggestions.


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## Magnum626 (Dec 31, 2009)

What size bindings and boots? Any pics? I know you said they were centered but objective eyes might help.

I have the 390s and targas. It felt soo much better when I put the front straps towards the rear. I have size 10 boots in the l/xl bindings. I've felt that wash out feeling towards heelside before. I rotated my binding plates and it felt much better. Maybe the combo of moving my straps helped as well? Not sure..

I know you said the boots are centered in the bindings. Does that also mean your feet are centered on the board edge to edge? I know, dumb question but just making sure.


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## Cyfer (Feb 7, 2013)

Magnum626 said:


> What size bindings and boots? Any pics? I know you said they were centered but objective eyes might help.
> 
> I have the 390s and targas. It felt soo much better when I put the front straps towards the rear. I have size 10 boots in the l/xl bindings. I've felt that wash out feeling towards heelside before. I rotated my binding plates and it felt much better. Maybe the combo of moving my straps helped as well? Not sure..
> 
> I know you said the boots are centered in the bindings. Does that also mean your feet are centered on the board edge to edge? I know, dumb question but just making sure.


Boots range between a size 10.5 burton and 11 Thirty Two. Binding size size is L/XL. Front straps are set to the rear but they move to the front pretty easy too just by riding the lifts. 

When you say binding plates give me any idea. The sole length, or screw that controls the center if the boot is set to the middle.


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## Magnum626 (Dec 31, 2009)

By binding plates I meant the discs. Are they set up vertical or horizontal. I wear a size 10 and left the canted beds as close together as possible. Not sure of the footprint of your boot if you need to extend the bases for your toe and heel. 

As far as your front straps. Mine are locked in towards the rear. They don't move per say. They should be locked in the notches and not moving from the front position to the rear position.


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## timmytard (Mar 19, 2009)

That sounds solely like a forward lean problemk:

I let someone try one of my boards a while ago, right away they commented on how far forward my forward lean was set @.
They wanted to changed it, I said don't fuckin' touch it.
Told them to just do a run, then see if they wanted to still change it.

It took 3, mine are quite far forward
After that they thought it was great & left it.

When I hopped on his board, hmy: He had lost his adjusters.
I couldn't do a hard carve worth shit, just puttin' around it wasn't too bad.
But good luck with any precision riding, especially @ speed.

You could still steer, by skidding around, but yuck what a horrible way to go.
I want to be able to quickly get out of they way of everything if need be.(gnargoyles, retards, ninjas, etc)

Even if it looks like they are farther forward than your other bindings, they must not be. 
If it doesn't feel like @ every moment, you're going to catch your toe side edge & eat shit.

Then keep crankin' em forward, don't even look @ the numbers.
Start @ the far end of the spectrum, set them to as far forward as they will go.

I'm pretty sure that will be to much, but you'll know it's working @ least.
Then fine tune them to where you want them.

This is IMO the most important part of that.
:bowdown:Once you have them perfect, right where you want them.
Put them one notch farther forward.
That's where they should be, *not *where you thought they were perfect.:bowdown:

You're just not used to it yet & @ first you'll think they are too far forward, but trust me here.
It'll take about 1 or 2 runs until you get used to it.

Then your confidence will shoot through the roof.
I guaran-fuckin'-tee, you will be doing the hardest heel side carves you've ever done.



TT


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## NWBoarder (Jan 10, 2010)

I can tell you this, it's not the canting. My 390 Boss bindings do not cause me to wash excessively on my heel at all. And I run the full 3.5 degree cant. Do you have your straps set for flexy, responsive, or middle of the road? That could be part of your problem. Pics maybe? That might help us figure it out better. :dunno:


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## Cyfer (Feb 7, 2013)

NWBoarder said:


> I can tell you this, it's not the canting. My 390 Boss bindings do not cause me to wash excessively on my heel at all. And I run the full 3.5 degree cant. Do you have your straps set for flexy, responsive, or middle of the road? That could be part of your problem. Pics maybe? That might help us figure it out better. :dunno:


I've tried the straps in the middle and lower positions both with the same results. Upper position I haven't tried but on another pair of bindings I tried it and hated it. Might have to try it in these. Was out today riding again and switched my bindings back to my Unions with zero issues. My Skate Banana felt normal once again which makes me believe its the bindings. 

I'm convinced now more that ever bindings are subjective, what works for one person will not work the same for another. I got these on a suggestion from a friend he's riding a Rome Agent Rocker with the 390 Boss and loves them. I'm beginning to think it could be the padding, that I'm not used to riding a binding with so much base plate padding like the 390's. both the Union Force and Contact place your feet closer to the top sheet of the board than the 390's.

I'm at a loss here but it looks like I'm going to be calling DogFunk for an RA number very soon. I think I might be giving up on these and sticking with Union when it comes to bindings. Seems that's what works for me. I lihe the Canting and my knees were thankful for it too. But I'm not going to sacrific performance for comfort, that seems silly.


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## NWBoarder (Jan 10, 2010)

Bindings are kind of subjective, like most other components of snowboarding. You can definitely feel more board with a Union binding. If you return the 390 Boss, and can wait until next season, then Union has added canting to their line on at least one pair of their bindings.


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## Cyfer (Feb 7, 2013)

NWBoarder said:


> Bindings are kind of subjective, like most other components of snowboarding. You can definitely feel more board with a Union binding. If you return the 390 Boss, and can wait until next season, then Union has added canting to their line on at least one pair of their bindings.


Saw them but I'm wondering in order to build up the canting they will thicken the base plate padding which will result in the same feel as the 390's. I might give these one more shot and crank up the forward lean to ridiculous and see if that helps. But I'd swear the sole length feels wrong but it's set to Rome's specs. I wish they had more adjustment options for that like Union does.


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## NWBoarder (Jan 10, 2010)

You might wanna try running the straps in the upper position as well. Rome claims that's the more responsive one, so it can't hurt I suppose. Nothing ventured, nothing gained and all that. It could be the forward lean too. I've got mine cranked, partially for fit purposes, and partially for performance purposes. My guess on the Unions is that they are just going to cant the footbed, and not mess with the baseplate dampening. That way you get the comfort of the cant, but still get the board feel Union is known for.


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## Cyfer (Feb 7, 2013)

NWBoarder said:


> You might wanna try running the straps in the upper position as well. Rome claims that's the more responsive one, so it can't hurt I suppose. Nothing ventured, nothing gained and all that. It could be the forward lean too. I've got mine cranked, partially for fit purposes, and partially for performance purposes. My guess on the Unions is that they are just going to cant the footbed, and not mess with the baseplate dampening. That way you get the comfort of the cant, but still get the board feel Union is known for.


I guess giving it a try can't hurt too much. Never ran my straps that high before, since this is my normal park board. Maybe I'll toss them back on my TRS for one more shot. Idk, just feel like I've been tweaking on these bindings for way too long now.


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## snowklinger (Aug 30, 2011)

TT had ur answer methinks.


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## timmytard (Mar 19, 2009)

Canting is more a comfort issue.

Forward lean is a performance issue.

Washing out carves & no heel hold. Would fall into the latter.

If you've been boardin' for 12+ years, you should know this:dunno:

The second I step on a board, that's the first thing I notice.

You never hop on strange board & do a toe carve first.
You do a heel side carve, that's your power move.
Right then you should know if it's too far or not enough.

In 1 carve, that's all it should take.
If you have no heel hold, that's the problem, nothing else.

You can monkey around with the straps, the canting, even draw flowers on it.
If that's what makes you comfy:cheeky4:

But if you want to be able to cut someone in half with a heel side carve? 

Do what the fuck I'm tellin' you to do!!!



TT


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## Cyfer (Feb 7, 2013)

timmytard said:


> Canting is more a comfort issue.
> 
> Forward lean is a performance issue.
> 
> ...


I hear what you're saying and trust me I've already been riding these with more forward lean than I've ever run on a binding before (4 clicks is monsterous) but what I'm feeling is like me feet are NOT center in the board. Like the sole length is way off but it's not. Almost like when the board is one heel side in steeps that its going to flop onto the toe side in a moments notice. Hooking the down hill edge and wham, instant scorpion in steep terrain. It's not a comfortable feeling in the least bit. This is where I get zero confidence on the bindings from. 

Yesterday I ran the Rome's all day and had this problem. Felt like the heel edge was going to fold any minute. Same board (riding it for three years), same boots (broken in and a season old), same exact runs today, different bindings and everything is fine. This is the problem I'm having. 

I've worked in a shop, assembled countless setups, do my own tuning, tweak my own settings. I've been riding for over 12 years, countless boards, boots, and bindings. When ever I have felt this feeling it's almost ALWAYS the boot is not center on the bindings. But this time it's not it. I set it up properly and read the paperwork that comes with the bindings multiple times. I've even had three friends check the setup to make sure I didn't fuck up. And in the end nothing appears wrong. Thus is my first setup with canted bindings and for the life of me I feel like its an error in setup I'm missing. I'm not blaming Rome, and I'm not saying the bindings suck. Just looking to see if anyone else has had an issue like this at all and find a way to fix it, or a suggestion that might lead to my error.


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## hktrdr (Apr 3, 2012)

Cyfer said:


> Saw them but I'm wondering in order to build up the canting they will thicken the base plate padding which will result in the same feel as the 390's. I might give these one more shot and crank up the forward lean to ridiculous and see if that helps.* But I'd swear the sole length feels wrong but it's set to Rome's specs. I wish they had more adjustment options for that like Union does.*


I don't really see how the Unions have more adjustment options than Rome bindings - if anything the 390 Bosses have more adjustments, with choice of baseplate length, almost infinite adjustability of the footbed length, and different ankle strap positions (which the Unions do not have).


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## hktrdr (Apr 3, 2012)

Cyfer said:


> I hear what you're saying and trust me I've already been riding these with more forward lean than I've ever run on a binding before (4 clicks is monsterous) but what I'm feeling is like me feet are NOT center in the board. Like the sole length is way off but it's not. Almost like when the board is one heel side in steeps that its going to flop onto the toe side in a moments notice. Hooking the down hill edge and wham, instant scorpion in steep terrain. It's not a comfortable feeling in the least bit. This is where I get zero confidence on the bindings from.
> 
> Yesterday I ran the Rome's all day and had this problem. Felt like the heel edge was going to fold any minute. Same board (riding it for three years), same boots (broken in and a season old), same exact runs today, different bindings and everything is fine. This is the problem I'm having.
> 
> I've worked in a shop, assembled countless setups, do my own tuning, tweak my own settings. I've been riding for over 12 years, countless boards, boots, and bindings. When ever I have felt this feeling it's almost ALWAYS the boot is not center on the bindings. But this time it's not it. I set it up properly and read the paperwork that comes with the bindings multiple times. I've even had three friends check the setup to make sure I didn't fuck up. And in the end nothing appears wrong. Thus is my first setup with canted bindings and for the life of me I feel like its an error in setup I'm missing. I'm not blaming Rome, and I'm not saying the bindings suck. Just looking to see if anyone else has had an issue like this at all and find a way to fix it, or a suggestion that might lead to my error.


Pictures might help.


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## timmytard (Mar 19, 2009)

So they are cranked & you feel like your gonna catch your toeside edge & eat shit scorpio style?

If that is what's going on? I'd say:icon_scratch: 
Maybe there's a crack somewhere? 
When no or very little pressure is applied to them, they would feel cranked forward, but when you actually apply the force it takes to do a hard carve, they loose all rigidity?

I can't even remember what binding were talking about here, but is it possible that it's supposed to be a noodle?

Urethane highbacks?


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## sheepstealer (Aug 19, 2009)

@Cypher - I'm somewhat in the same boat as you. I have the 2011-2012 390 Bosses, size L/XL. I'm wearing 9.5 boots.

I too have also set the straps to the most "responsive" settings. Forward lean is clicked about 3 notches...

My heel side carves have always felt a bit wonky with the 390 Bosses, but nothing that bothers me a ton. Its always easier to rail a toe side carve right?

Do you think it would be a problem with the highback rotation? I set mine (as I've read on the forums and the instruction booklet) to be parallel to my edge. With a +15/-15 angle set up, I think I set the highback rotation to a 4 or 8 degree angle (per the booklet). 

Would adjusting the highbacks to be more in line with the actual angle of the binding help? Spitballing here.


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## Cyfer (Feb 7, 2013)

sheepstealer said:


> @Cypher - I'm somewhat in the same boat as you. I have the 2011-2012 390 Bosses, size L/XL. I'm wearing 9.5 boots.
> 
> I too have also set the straps to the most "responsive" settings. Forward lean is clicked about 3 notches...
> 
> ...


Actually I was thinking that today too. I placed my boots into the bindings today and noticed that with the rotation they are not lined up at all with the rear back stay of the boots. Then I read online that the high backs of the 390 Boss are canted slightly to the inside. So I reset the bindings with out any rotation at all, three clicks of forward lean, at a 12 front foot, -12 rear foot, straps currently at; toe straps set to the rearward position, ankle straps in the middle position. turned out the high backs lined up much better even using the 3.5 degree canted foot beds. I might try riding them this weekend on my Skate Banana at the same mountian again like this. The rotation was slight but enough that the screw to the straps had slightly scratched the high backs. Seems I might not need any high back rotation when using these particular bindings. I'm going to finish setting these up today or tomorrow sometime and pist pics. Then ride them and post again to let everyone know if it helps. 

Any other suggestions for the setup would help too, hoping this fixes the problem.


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## Cyfer (Feb 7, 2013)

Here is a few pics of the current setup


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## Cyfer (Feb 7, 2013)

Current setup is Lib-Tech Skate Banana 159, Rome 390 Boss bindings, and Thirty-Two Lashed FT boots


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## Cyfer (Feb 7, 2013)

Current settings are 12 degrees front foot, -12 degrees rear foot, 23 inch stance and centered on the board. 3 clicks forward lean each, toe straps set to the rearward position, ankle straps in center position, no high back rotation.


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## Cyfer (Feb 7, 2013)

Hope these pics will give anyone any ideas to what I might be doing wrong in the setup. Current canting is at 3.5 degrees.


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## Cyfer (Feb 7, 2013)

Final pic of the setup hopefully it shows everything everyone asked for


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## NWBoarder (Jan 10, 2010)

Problem solved. You need to pull the heel part of the footbed out to the edge of the top sheet. Right now your toe edge is better for you because you have it properly placed, but your heel washes because of the gap between the end of the footbed and the edge of the board. Fix this and you'll stop washing out. 

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


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## Cyfer (Feb 7, 2013)

NWBoarder said:


> Problem solved. You need to pull the heel part of the footbed out to the edge of the top sheet. Right now your toe edge is better for you because you have it properly placed, but your heel washes because of the gap between the end of the footbed and the edge of the board. Fix this and you'll stop washing out.
> 
> Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


I'll give that a try thanks for the info.


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## hktrdr (Apr 3, 2012)

NWBoarder said:


> Problem solved. You need to pull the heel part of the footbed out to the edge of the top sheet. Right now your toe edge is better for you because you have it properly placed, but your heel washes because of the gap between the end of the footbed and the edge of the board. Fix this and you'll stop washing out.
> 
> Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


I tend to agree with that. A little difficult to confirm without a picture that shows the heel/footbed with the boot strapped in, but that was my initial guess as well seeing that the back part of the footbed is all the way in/forward.
Incidentally, that is one of the adjustment options for Rome that I was talking about - although not unique to Rome, this ability to adjust the length of the baseplate *and* the extension of the toe ramp *and* the heel part of the footbed, all independently, really offers a lot of flexibility (but also takes some getting used to).


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## Cyfer (Feb 7, 2013)

Did the adjustment and I can see how it makes more sense now. Kinda stoked to ride this setup now too. I can see how the leverage was off when it came to the heel side.


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## Cyfer (Feb 7, 2013)

The boot now fits better on the heel side edge also. Sometimes the fix is so simple and it's good to have other look at it. Thanks all.


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## NWBoarder (Jan 10, 2010)

I'd say it looks better now. I'd also say if you still have an issue with it, move the heel out a little more until it's completely flush. That last picture makes it look like there is still a slight gap. 

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


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## Cyfer (Feb 7, 2013)

Looks a lot better more even edge to edge


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## Cyfer (Feb 7, 2013)

Increased the forward lean to four clicks so now the high back is flush against the boot.


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## Extremo (Nov 6, 2008)

You shouldn't have your highbacks in the front holes. They need to be back against the heel loop. You're probably losing all of your heelside leverage because clearly your boot is too far forward in the binding and over the board.


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## timmytard (Mar 19, 2009)

Extremo said:


> You shouldn't have your highbacks in the front holes. They need to be back against the heel loop. You're probably losing all of your heelside leverage because clearly your boot is too far forward in the binding and over the board.


Ya totally agree.

You should either move both back one hole or just the one so the highbacks are inline with the edge of your board.

Move the *right *side of your *left *bindings highback back one hole.

That's also why your forward lean had to be set so far forward

Once you put the highback where it's supposed to go, you'll have to reset the forward lean .

Now you should be ready to rock:yahoo:


TT


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## lcstriker07 (Oct 20, 2008)

I'd love to hear the update as to whether this fixes your heel side problem man. I ride 390 boss's as well but never felt like I had any edge problems. Quite frankly I have more control in each foot after switching to these from 09' cartels(the most leaned forward binding I've ever seen). Had never thought of the effect moving the foot bed would have but it definitely makes sense. Looks like pressure was being put too far inside the edge of the board before.

As for the forward lean, dont be discouraged by the ammount of clicks bro. Took me three just to get the highback close to touching the back of my boot. I'd say it'd take five to get to what my cartels sit at with no "clicks". One of the things I love about switching to a true 0 degree lean though is the difference in feel you get under foot when transitioning between edges. I was so used to using mostly legs to get on my heels with the cartels. These took some getting used to but have pleasantly surprised me with a new style of riding. A skater feel is what i'd describe it as.


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## hktrdr (Apr 3, 2012)

Extremo said:


> You shouldn't have your highbacks in the front holes. They need to be back against the heel loop. You're probably losing all of your heelside leverage because clearly your boot is too far forward in the binding and over the board.


Yes, I noticed that as well.

Cyfer: It looks like you messed up when rotating the highbacks. Not uncommon with Rome, because the rotation is a combination of changing holes on the highback (inner holes) and the baseplate (outer holes). Definitely check the manual sheet on this to get it right.


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## Cyfer (Feb 7, 2013)

There's no rotation right now but I see what you're talking about. Planning to fix that sometime today or tomorrow before I ride these again. Hopefully it all works out soon. Not willing to give up yet, but just keeps me thinking Union is the way to go for me. I've never had any issues with either my Contacts or my Forces.


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## Cyfer (Feb 7, 2013)

Extremo said:


> You shouldn't have your highbacks in the front holes. They need to be back against the heel loop. You're probably losing all of your heelside leverage because clearly your boot is too far forward in the binding and over the board.


Rotated and pushed the high backs as far as a can into the heel loops without causing the loops to block the high back from folding all the way down. Seems to be a huge help too. Going to ride these this weekend. Thank you everyone, this is my last try with these bindings. It they ride like shit they are going back. All the feedback here has helped a lot. Will post a final pic of the set up very soon.


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## Cyfer (Feb 7, 2013)

So I'm happy to say after being out on the hill from 8am to 8pm and using my Skate Banana and my Rome 390 Boss with my Thirty-Two Lashed boots I had a great day out all day. Zero issues, heel side was the strongest it's been ever. Used the 3.5 canted foot beds and they were rock solid all damn day. I want to say thank you to everyone who posted on this thread and helped out setting up these bindings. It took some time and few days out but they felt so natural on the board. Fully happy with them now too. As I was told ended up cutting back my forward lean to two clicks too. 

Very nice bindings, I could see myself riding them on either my TRS or my Skate Banana in the future. Again thank you all, all the suggestions really helped figuring this out. :bowdown:


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## Cyfer (Feb 7, 2013)

~~~~~~ UPDATE~~~~~~

So after many days of tweaking, posting, riding, tweaking some more and riding again I've finally dialed in these bad boys. I've got these bindings running perfectly now and I do really like them. They ride well with my TRS and the canting with the stiffer board and bindings make this setup handle like a dream. Took a lot of time and I've got to say thanks to everyone who posted here and gave advice on the set up. 

Took the TRS out for a ride day on Saturday and had a great day all day. This board is a damn rocket and these bindings make riding it perfect. Great day on Saturday, again thanks everyone I almost gave up on the bindings. 

~~~ Final Setup Photo~~~


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## NWBoarder (Jan 10, 2010)

Good to hear that you got them dialed and enjoyed them for the season. I know I love mine.


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## CassMT (Mar 14, 2013)

is there anyone making a universal cant now? i looked but found nothing...under or inside binding, or specific to K2

always used to ride an under-binding cant on the back foot, really would like to again


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