# Finally boots that fit!



## 2by2handsofblue (Mar 7, 2017)

Needmoresnow said:


> First post here and wanted to say thanks! Been reading the forum for a while but hadn't yet signed up.
> 
> I'm a intermediate/advanced rider whose been out of the game for the last 5 or so years as other things in life took priority.
> 
> ...


Hey man keep us updated after wearing them toward the end of the season.
I'm in the same boat. Never had comfortable boots. And I deal with heel lift.



Sent from my SM-G965U1 using Tapatalk


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## Donutz (May 12, 2010)

I'd like to know if the big-toe thing does resolve itself. I've tried on a pair or two of boots like that, and was unwilling to take the chance.


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## WigMar (Mar 17, 2019)

Aftermarket insoles helped with big toe bang when I recently sized down from 13 to 11.5. A mild heel lift took the rest of the big toe pressure away. I'm stoked to have boots that fit this way- response and comfort all day without heel lift or having to overcrank bindings. Take the chance on Mondo sized boots that fit you the best, and make them work for your feet if needed.


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## ridethecliche (Feb 27, 2019)

Donutz said:


> I'd like to know if the big-toe thing does resolve itself. I've tried on a pair or two of boots like that, and was unwilling to take the chance.


Same here. 

Ended up with 8.5 TM2s. 8.5 burton rulers killed me. The TM2s in 8s felt really cramped from the get go to the point it hurt to get my feet in. In the 8.5s I can just barely graze the front of the liner with my big toe after heat molding and a few days riding. Boots are starting to finally break in and feel good! 

Been having some heel lift in my boots now and I've been compensating by adding padding beetween the tongue and the liner because I have skinny ankles. The shredsoles helped too but now I'm seeing all sorts of info about why canted insoles are the devil... Color me confused.


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## Needmoresnow (Dec 29, 2019)

I'll be sure to update towards the end of the season. Heading out next weekend to ride so we will see how they are. 

My only concern is that the moto doesnt have the best reputation for more advanced riders but I was somewhat stuck as it's the only boot I've ever felt may fit properly. I dont mind a softer boot but I hope they stand up.


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## MrDavey2Shoes (Mar 5, 2018)

@ridethecliche put the donuts in, they help - But my TM2 packed out like crazy. Partly my fault for letting them convince me I needed a 9.5. I’m an 8 lol


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## ridethecliche (Feb 27, 2019)

MrDavey2Shoes said:


> @ridethecliche put the donuts in, they help - But my TM2 packed out like crazy. Partly my fault for letting them convince me I needed a 9.5. I’m an 8 lol


My wiredsport ish showed me at an 8, but I just can't find that to be comfortable. I wear 8.5's in workout shoes and most of them wear at the toes, so I'm right up there. I guess I'm not willing to fight through the pain of trying to break in a set of 8's and get them to pack out. Maybe in time, but I can say for fact that the burton rulers I had were just too small for my feet and they were an 8.5.

I was enjoying my last few days in the TM2's. Actually ran the large black donuts in there. I think I already developed a blisted before that. I literally put a bandaid on and duct taped it over my foot so it wouldn't move. It didn't get any worse!


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## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

Even though my boots are generally dialed, they still need just a tad of adjustment. So at the end of last season there was a tad of slop and pressure that had developed from packing out. On day one this season, it was still there.. So just finished some very minor liner tweaks and hopefully good to go. However I will bring my foam bits, scissors and tape to the hill in case another slight adjustment is needed. There is no reason to suffer through an entire season when just taking a few minutes in the lodge/truck to get things dialed to performance slippers.


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

Needmoresnow said:


> In any event I switched out my 11 transfers for a size 10 burton Moto. They seemed incredibly tight but after doing a diy heat molding and wearing them around the house they feel 95% perfect. The only exception is that my big toe still touches the end but I think that should sort itself out in time (from what I've read)


STOKED that you are on the right track! I know that it sounds odd, but you want your toes to have firm contact with the liner. In a correctly feet boot, your toes and your heels will have firm pressure into the compliant materials of the liner. You don't want that to go away. Contact does not equal pain or discomfort. This is not an aggressive fit or a performance fit. This is how all snowboard boots are designed to fit.


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

ridethecliche said:


> I can just barely graze the front of the liner with my big toe after heat molding and a few days riding.


Just barely grazing the end is far too large. That is not how snowboard boots are designed and it indicates that you are giving up a lot of performance. This will only get worse after the boot fully breaks in (which takes ~2 weeks). After 30 years of doing this we know that this is not a process of days or weeks. It often takes a rider 3 pair of boots over 5 years to get down to their Mondo size. Once you are on the right track it will certainly happen with time. We understand that it is counter-intuitive and that it takes time.

STOKED!


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## Jkb818 (Sep 28, 2019)

Wiredsport said:


> Just barely grazing the end is far too large. That is not how snowboard boots are designed and it indicates that you are giving up a lot of performance. This will only get worse after the boot fully breaks in (which takes ~2 weeks). After 30 years of doing this we know that this is not a process of days or weeks. It often takes a rider 3 pair of boots over 5 years to get down to their Mondo size. Once you are on the right track it will certainly happen with time. We understand that it is counter-intuitive and that it takes time.
> 
> STOKED!


Now that I’ve taken your advice and downsized I can’t imagine riding boots where my toes aren’t pressing firmly into the liner. Definitely no going back after you realize the benefits. ??


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## ridethecliche (Feb 27, 2019)

Wiredsport said:


> Just barely grazing the end is far too large. That is not how snowboard boots are designed and it indicates that you are giving up a lot of performance. This will only get worse after the boot fully breaks in (which takes ~2 weeks). After 30 years of doing this we know that this is not a process of days or weeks. It often takes a rider 3 pair of boots over 5 years to get down to their Mondo size. Once you are on the right track it will certainly happen with time. We understand that it is counter-intuitive and that it takes time.
> 
> STOKED!


I understand that, but the same size in burton rulers (8.5) destroyed my feet and made me really uncomfortable all last season.

The size down in 32s was painful to even get my feet into and my toes felt like hell even standing in the snowboarding position for a minute where the toes are being pushed back.

I'll gladly sacrifice a little performance to be able to ride a full day without going inside multiple times because my feet like they're going to fall off.

At the same time, I tried a pair of 8.5 thraxis boots at the end of last year and they were most definitely too big. It's a brand thing too I think. I've always heard that 32s run big for their size but I found that not too be the case.


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

Please post a link to where we did your initial sizing.


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## MrDavey2Shoes (Mar 5, 2018)

@ridethecliche if your experience at (shop name redacted) was anything like mine they probably put you in boots too big. I had much better luck with Ski Barn on rt 17. They use mondo sizing and put me in the same size boot @Wiredsport recommended me last year. I did not tell them what size I thought I should be ahead of their sizing and suggestion. My toes are now happily and firmly against the liner and all my foot pains have vanished.


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## ridethecliche (Feb 27, 2019)

Wiredsport said:


> Please post a link to where we did your initial sizing.


There's another post on your long thread somewhere but this is where I remember offhand. 









Boots with high instep?


Hey y'all. Been riding a pair of burton rulers with the speed lace and I just don't think that they're for me. I get pain on top of my foot which then gives me hot spots under my feet and I'm constantly fiddling around with them and trying to get comfortable. The final straw was pain just...




www.snowboardingforum.com


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## The_Stigs (Jan 3, 2012)

Wiredsport said:


> STOKED that you are on the right track! I know that it sounds odd, but you want your toes to have firm contact with the liner. In a correctly feet boot, your toes and your heels will have firm pressure into the compliant materials of the liner. You don't want that to go away. *Contact does equal pain or discomfort.* This is not an aggressive fit or a performance fit. This is how all snowboard boots are designed to fit.


Sorry, not trying to hijack this thread, but is relevant to something I tried today. I've not done a proper fitting in the past, but read a few guides, including yours @Wiredsport, and used your sizing tool. I was at REI today and tried a pair of 10.5 boots on (which was recommended by your tool and measurement guide). Everything felt great, except my big toe having significant pressure into the liner. I just want to make sure that I'm hearing you clearly here -- that there should be a bit of discomfort with a proper fitting boot. I'm accustomed to this in climbing shoes where you downsize and tough it out until they stretch. Should it be safe to assume that either the heat molding and packing out over time would lessen that pain and become a solid fit? FWIW, the boots were Thirtytwos, which I've heard mixed reviews on how much they pack out. Thanks for any clarification you can provide.


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

ridethecliche said:


> There's another post on your long thread somewhere but this is where I remember offhand.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Hi,

You mentioned above that I had showed you at Mondopoint 260 or a size 8 but I am not finding that. In the thread which you linked above you had written, "I get 26.1 cm for my left foot and 26.3 for my right foot, which puts me squarely on the lower side of 8.5 mondo". That is correct (except that 8.5 is the US snowboard boot size not the mondopoint size). 26.1 cm and 26.3 cm are both Mondopoint 265 which is size 8.5 US in all snowboard boots. From what I see in your link above your measurements and your images both show you at Mondopoint 265 which will always be a size 8.5 US. I am uncertain why you would have gone with a size 8. Are you saying that I had suggested that you go with that size? I am not finding that. 26.1 cm is the smallest measurement in the size range for mondopoint 265. The range is 261 to 265 mm. That means that your boots will fit a bit larger than someone at the higher end of the range. You also wrote that your shoe size is also 8.5. Shoe size and snowboard boot size are never the same. In this case it looks like you have been wearing shoes smaller than your actual shoe size which makes sense when you wrote above that you are wearing out the toes.


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

The_Stigs said:


> Sorry, not trying to hijack this thread, but is relevant to something I tried today. I've not done a proper fitting in the past, but read a few guides, including yours @Wiredsport, and used your sizing tool. I was at REI today and tried a pair of 10.5 boots on (which was recommended by your tool and measurement guide). Everything felt great, except my big toe having significant pressure into the liner. I just want to make sure that I'm hearing you clearly here -- that there should be a bit of discomfort with a proper fitting boot. I'm accustomed to this in climbing shoes where you downsize and tough it out until they stretch. Should it be safe to assume that either the heat molding and packing out over time would lessen that pain and become a solid fit? FWIW, the boots were Thirtytwos, which I've heard mixed reviews on how much they pack out. Thanks for any clarification you can provide.


Hi Stigs,

Let's confirm everything first. Please measure your feet using this method:

Kick your heel (barefoot please, no socks) back against a wall. Mark the floor exactly at the tip of your toe (the one that sticks out furthest - which toe this is will vary by rider). Measure from the mark on the floor to the wall. That is your foot length and is the only measurement that you will want to use. Measure in centimeters if possible, but if not, take inches and multiply by 2.54 (example: an 11.25 inch foot x 2.54 = 28.57 centimeters). For width please place the inside (medial side) of your foot against a wall. Please then measure from the wall out to the widest point on the lateral (outside) of your foot.

STOKED!


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## ridethecliche (Feb 27, 2019)

If you can


Wiredsport said:


> Hi,
> 
> You mentioned above that I had showed you at Mondopoint 260 or a size 8 but I am not finding that. In the thread which you linked above you had written, "I get 26.1 cm for my left foot and 26.3 for my right foot, which puts me squarely on the lower side of 8.5 mondo". That is correct (except that 8.5 is the US snowboard boot size not the mondopoint size). 26.1 cm and 26.3 cm are both Mondopoint 265 which is size 8.5 US in all snowboard boots. From what I see in your link above your measurements and your images both show you at Mondopoint 265 which will always be a size 8.5 US. I am uncertain why you would have gone with a size 8. Are you saying that I had suggested that you go with that size? I am not finding that. 26.1 cm is the smallest measurement in the size range for mondopoint 265. The range is 261 to 265 mm. That means that your boots will fit a bit larger than someone at the higher end of the range. You also wrote that your shoe size is also 8.5. Shoe size and snowboard boot size are never the same. In this case it looks like you have been wearing shoes smaller than your actual shoe size which makes sense when you wrote above that you are wearing out the toes.


If you read down one post from the one I linked, I got 25.7/25.8 when I redid things and slammed my feet back into the wall. I'm pretty certain that's the actual smallest number I could get because if i had waited even a minute, my arches would have collapsed a bit more and elongated my feet. 

That said, I've found 8.5 burton rulers to be way too small, 8.5 thraxis to fit quite large, and the 8.5 TM2 to be reasonable when new. I'm relatively sure a broken in TM2 in a size 8 would work for me but I think the break in process isn't really worth it for someone like me. 

Just for reference as well, my toes were sticking out of my liners for the burton rulers in an 8.5. And regarding the sizing... I used to bike race competitively and got used to wearing shoes that were a tighter fit than traditional sneakers. I've also rock climbed for fun for a bit so I'm used to that as well. The climbing shoes I have to take off between climbing since they're so tight. I forget if they're 8 or 8.5.

Thanks as always for the interesting for discussion!


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## ridethecliche (Feb 27, 2019)

The_Stigs said:


> Sorry, not trying to hijack this thread, but is relevant to something I tried today. I've not done a proper fitting in the past, but read a few guides, including yours @Wiredsport, and used your sizing tool. I was at REI today and tried a pair of 10.5 boots on (which was recommended by your tool and measurement guide). Everything felt great, except my big toe having significant pressure into the liner. I just want to make sure that I'm hearing you clearly here -- that there should be a bit of discomfort with a proper fitting boot. I'm accustomed to this in climbing shoes where you downsize and tough it out until they stretch. Should it be safe to assume that either the heat molding and packing out over time would lessen that pain and become a solid fit? FWIW, the boots were Thirtytwos, which I've heard mixed reviews on how much they pack out. Thanks for any clarification you can provide.


I think a little tight is good starting out unless it's so painful that you can't even stand to be in the boot in the snowboarding position (knees bent, pushing forward into the tongue). I think 32s have cush liners but if they pack out over 50-60 days to the point where you feel like you're getting too much movement, you can do a few things to take up a bit of that room. Angry snowboarder has a good boot fitting series on YouTube. Id recommend watching it!


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

ridethecliche said:


> If you can
> 
> 
> If you read down one post from the one I linked, I got 25.7/25.8 when I redid things and slammed my feet back into the wall. I'm pretty certain that's the actual smallest number I could get because if i had waited even a minute, my arches would have collapsed a bit more and elongated my feet.
> ...


Based on your images, you are low Mondopoint 265. We don't suggest slamming your feet into the wall.



http://imgur.com/OXhqT2V


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## The_Stigs (Jan 3, 2012)

Wiredsport said:


> Hi Stigs,
> 
> Let's confirm everything first. Please measure your feet using this method:
> 
> ...


This is what I did as I followed your stickied guide (I try to read as much as I can before speaking up)
I'm 28.4/28.0 (obviously Mondo 284) which, per your snowboardbootsizer tool is US10.5.

I just want to clarify that you didn't have a typo when you said "contact" = discomfort. The big toe pain is probably about 3/10 -- enough to stand up and flex, but for the moment uncomfortable. Not nearly as bad as climbing shoe initial fit. And thanks for the reference @ridethecliche. I've watched Avran's guide several times. This feels to me, in his terms, between the "regular" fit and the "performance" fit. That's why I would hope that they would pack out and be comfortable, given both heat molding and aftermarket soles. But I also don't want to purchase and then have a miserable day.

Thanks again for the advice!


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

[QUOTE="The_Stigs, post: 3385528, member: 29124"
I just want to clarify that you didn't have a typo when you said "contact" = discomfort.
[/QUOTE]

Thanks for catching that. I have corrected that to read, contact does not equal discomfort. We will need your width measurements as well. Thanks!


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## Needmoresnow (Dec 29, 2019)

Wanted to post a quick update. I've been out now a few times with my new boots. Couple days of park/all mountain riding and a day teaching my 6yr old. The boots are doing awesome. No pain as of yet, just a bit of pressure still on my big toe, nothing I can't handle though. 

I do wish the boot had a bit more arch support so I'm beginning to think about custom insoles. Would they need to be snowboard boot specific? Or could I use any insole?

Thanks again!


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## MrDavey2Shoes (Mar 5, 2018)

Needmoresnow said:


> Wanted to post a quick update. I've been out now a few times with my new boots. Couple days of park/all mountain riding and a day teaching my 6yr old. The boots are doing awesome. No pain as of yet, just a bit of pressure still on my big toe, nothing I can't handle though.
> 
> I do wish the boot had a bit more arch support so I'm beginning to think about custom insoles. Would they need to be snowboard boot specific? Or could I use any insole?
> 
> Thanks again!


Snowboard specific, they have more structure. Shoe insoles are too soft.


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## Needmoresnow (Dec 29, 2019)

Another update now that the seasons over. My boots broke in a felt great all season however I decided that they were too soft of a boot. I recently ordered a pair of Burton Rulers for $105.00 canadian. Waiting for them to show up but hoping they have a similar fit to the moto but stiffer. Fingers crossed


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## Donutz (May 12, 2010)

Needmoresnow said:


> Another update now that the seasons over. My boots broke in a felt great all season however I decided that they were too soft of a boot. I recently ordered a pair of Burton Rulers for $105.00 canadian. Waiting for them to show up but hoping they have a similar fit to the moto but stiffer. Fingers crossed


I am completely boggled by people who will order boots over the interwebz without knowing if they'll fit. I could order Maysis or Lasso because I know my size, but another brand or model? NFW.

TBH, I always buy boots in a shop anyway so I can get them molded, so it's a theoretical problem.


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## Needmoresnow (Dec 29, 2019)

Dont disagree with you, but given the fact stores are l closed I took a chance. Considering that the moto fit well and they are both burton, I'm hoping the ruler is similar. Plus for the price I couldn't pass it up.


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## Surgeon (Apr 13, 2020)

Donutz said:


> I am completely boggled by people who will order boots over the interwebz without knowing if they'll fit. I could order Maysis or Lasso because I know my size, but another brand or model? NFW.
> 
> TBH, I always buy boots in a shop anyway so I can get them molded, so it's a theoretical problem.


That's a good point but you have to think about the people (such as myself) who don't have access to a shop with good quality boots (the one store within 4 hours that has snowboard gear only has the lowest grade of each brand) or knowledgeable staff. That's also why, while I understand Wired's method and all, I can't go and buy a boot that should "fit tightly on my toes and yet be comfortable". It seems suboptimal to you guys but I'd rather buy a size which I know will fit me properly, be comfortable and ride well. In my case, my US11 burtons are just that: I can feel the liner with my toe(s) a tiny bit when walking and not while riding. Could I fit in a 10.5? Maybe, but since I can't try anything worth riding beforehand (and definitely not have access to someone knowledgeable about fitting) I'd rather keep my 11 boots and ride well and comfortably than try to go half a size (or a full size) down and end-up wasting 300$ because I can never get them to be comfortable to ride in... some of us aren't as lucky when it comes to the availability of gear and competent salespeople (or even heatmolding stations).


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## WigMar (Mar 17, 2019)

Surgeon said:


> In my case, my US11 burtons are just that: I can feel the liner with my toe(s) a tiny bit when walking and not while riding. Could I fit in a 10.5? Maybe,


That sounds like it's a little on the big side even for a comfort fit. If that works well for you, excellent. I'm on the opposite end of this spectrum. My boots fit so tight that I've got a bit of a hard time walking, but riding feels great. They aren't hiking boots after all. Then again, my feet are large and I'll take any amount of footprint reduction I can get. I'm in 11 down from 13. The performance gains from downsizing were huge for me. Your experience may vary. 

If you can't try boots on in person, I'd recommend buying from somewhere with an excellent return policy.


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## Surgeon (Apr 13, 2020)

WigMar said:


> That sounds like it's a little on the big side even for a comfort fit. If that works well for you, excellent. I'm on the opposite end of this spectrum. My boots fit so tight that I've got a bit of a hard time walking, but riding feels great. They aren't hiking boots after all. Then again, my feet are large and I'll take any amount of footprint reduction I can get. I'm in 11 down from 13. The performance gains from downsizing were huge for me. Your experience may vary.
> 
> If you can't try boots on in person, I'd recommend buying from somewhere with an excellent return policy.


Those are all great points. Thanks for your input.


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## Needmoresnow (Dec 29, 2019)

New boots arrived yesterday. The fit on the ruler is identical to the moto but much stiffer (although not broken in). Looks like I should be good for next season. Only 8 or so months to go!


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