# Wax input for Extruded base - hot or rub on?



## handscreate (Jan 17, 2012)

So I've done a fair amount of searching & after getting a lot of conflicting info on the web, I thought I'd ask here. I've never waxed my own board & want to start to do so. I read a whole lot of info on extruded bases & how they don't absorb wax as well as a sintered base & therefore they don't really need to be waxed. I have a Forum Bully Doubledog which has The FreeBase. To the best of my knowledge, the Forum FreeBase is an extruded base. Having read all this conflicting info, I'm torn between investing in some hot wax equipment (even if it's a DIY mickey mouse setup) & just buying some rub on wax or paste wax. I'm going for what may be the last time this season (unless the snow gods bless us in SoCal) this weekend & would like to have my board waxed by Thursday in anticipation. 

I should also note that I live in an apartment with carpeted floors & can easily see doing hot waxes to be a big mess every time. That said, if a hot wax is going to make a noticeable difference on the extruded base, I'll suck it up either buy a tarp or do some serious vacuuming & clean up. I appreciate your guys & gals input on this. 

As far as this weekend is concerned, I'm doubtful I'll get anything beyond what Sports Chalet or my local shop has in stock due to shipping times


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## KIRKRIDER (Mar 18, 2008)

I like to keep my speed up on flats and wax does help. Don't use the rub-on...it lasts just a run. Don't worry too much about the mess. after 3 years I leave almost no trace of wax in my garage. Use a newspaper on the carpet or a tarp and you're good. I got the DaKine iron and it works well..waxing is a ritual to me. "Zardoz Not-wax" it's also pretty good on shush...but I'm worried about it being toxic.


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## handscreate (Jan 17, 2012)

Don't get me wrong, I like to keep moving on the flats too, that's why I'm asking. I was riding last week in spring slush & had to hike some runs to the lift because I couldn't keep enough speed to get thru the puddles. I just figured if there really isn't going to be a noticeable difference between hot & rub on wax on an extruded base then I didn't want to spend money & time to do a hot wax myself. 

Is it way too jank if I buy a cheap clothes iron & use that instead of a snow sport specific iron that costs easily 4 times as much? If I don't have an extra around my place I was thinking thrift store or super cheap one from target, bed & bath, etc to get me thru this weekend and invest in something better when I have the funds to do so. Do I need to buy snow specific base cleaner, or will something like Simple Green or high % alcohol work well enough to remove the grime? Perhaps a hot scrape is better than either of these? Being in an apartment I'm looking to make the smallest mess possible


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## ilikecoupons (Jan 20, 2012)

handscreate said:


> Don't get me wrong, I like to keep moving on the flats too, that's why I'm asking. I was riding last week in spring slush & had to hike some runs to the lift because I couldn't keep enough speed to get thru the puddles. I just figured if there really isn't going to be a noticeable difference between hot & rub on wax on an extruded base then I didn't want to spend money & time to do a hot wax myself.
> 
> Is it way too jank if I buy a cheap clothes iron & use that instead of a snow sport specific iron that costs easily 4 times as much? If I don't have an extra around my place I was thinking thrift store or super cheap one from target, bed & bath, etc to get me thru this weekend and invest in something better when I have the funds to do so. Do I need to buy snow specific base cleaner, or will something like Simple Green or high % alcohol work well enough to remove the grime? Perhaps a hot scrape is better than either of these? Being in an apartment I'm looking to make the smallest mess possible


Hot waxing will make a difference, just not as much of one. If i remember correctly, rather than 60% of the base being porous(wax absorbing) on sintered, 40% is porous on extruded bases. This means that it will still absorb wax, just not as much of it. Yeah, you can buy a regular cloths iron, just be careful about the temperature and use aluminum foil over the iron to prevent wax from entering the holes.

I personally don't use base cleaner, but any citrus based cleaner will work, just use it sparingly. Hot scraping is way messier than base cleaning.


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## CheeseForSteeze (May 11, 2011)

Hot waxing is always better, regardless of your base material construction, because all high molecular weight plastics experience pore expansion with heat which is what really promotes wax absorption. An extruded material simply just has fewer and less consistently sized pores because extrusion can create localized flaws and inconsistencies in the material. But it will still be better with a hot wax than without one. Will it see the drastic improvement a sintered base would? No. In that same vein, it doesn't experience the same speed loss a sintered base when depleted of wax in some snowpack conditions. Wax creates a controlled amount of friction so that you have a layer of water to ride on.

If you're riding spring conditions that have warmed beyond corn snow, there isn't much you can do to help. The water content of that snow is so high that surface tension starts to slow the board which can totally stop you in the flats. The only real way to combat that is with a good base structure creating by a stonegrind and products like graphite wax which have a granular texture and help break up some of the surface tension.


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## Leo (Nov 24, 2009)

Citrus base cleaners don't do anything to the board's base. That is a myth that even the hardcore race skiers perpetuate. Some scientific guy broke down why citrus base cleaners can't possibly do damage due to the nature of P-Tex bases. He even explains that hot waxing doesn't completely clean your base which makes total sense. If the base absorbs wax when warmed up, how can hot scraping possibly lift all the dirt? You aren't scraping in the pores were the wax was absorbed into. 

In the end, hot scraping is good enough. You don't need to use citrus cleaners. I personally use both methods. I use citrus base cleaners when my base is super dirty like from spring man-made sludge. Something no amount of hot scraping will get off.

I would say invest in a hot iron setup. You will need to eventually anyway so if you can afford it now, go for it. You likely won't have an extruded base snowboard forever right?

And don't knock rub-on wax. It's very useful for touch-ups. Just make sure you cork the rub-on wax in if you do use that. They normally come with cork on the lid or something. If not, just pick one up. I've even used wine bottle corks before (side without the wine stain duh).


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## mixie (Mar 29, 2011)

you can find one at REI on sale probably. I was at the Ontario (caliornia) store last week and irons were on clearance. For Summit this weekend? I don't know if Id bother. 


I have an extruded board that is beat to hell with all kinds of scraps and gashes. Only one bad core shot. I wax it pretty often. What I find helps get rid of some of the big gouges (in the wax) is to take a razorblade to them. Level them out. so instead of the big gashes looking like this


|__| they look like this \_/ 

Flatten out any gouges or what not before you wax. Almost like sanding it down so the new wax sticks better. No base cleaner. I find it's easier to fill the hole/smooth the gaps with the hot wax if I do this first. It will hold more wax but it doesn't last long. Maybe a couple days before I need to do it again. Part of why I bought new boars with a sintered base. It's like night and day. really. it is. Or maybe my extruded board was just that bad.


the first time I waxed I did it in the living room (cos I was watching you tube videos on how to wax of course) made a huge mess all over my hard wood floors. Floors are in really bad condition anyway. but now I do it on my front porch. Nothing better than waxing your board outside when it's 85 degrees and your neighbors think you're crazy. I need to wire my garage up with electricity.


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## poutanen (Dec 22, 2011)

handscreate said:


> Having read all this conflicting info, I'm torn between investing in some hot wax equipment (even if it's a DIY mickey mouse setup) & just buying some rub on wax or paste wax. I'm going for what may be the last time this season (unless the snow gods bless us in SoCal) this weekend & would like to have my board waxed by Thursday in anticipation.
> 
> I should also note that I live in an apartment with carpeted floors & can easily see doing hot waxes to be a big mess every time. That said, if a hot wax is going to make a noticeable difference on the extruded base, I'll suck it up either buy a tarp or do some serious vacuuming & clean up. I appreciate your guys & gals input on this.


Heh, hey said freebase... What smells like burnt rubber in here?

Okay, as others have said hot waxing is the way to go for any base. I've been using a regular household iron for almost 20 years, just be careful on the temp. Start off with it quite low and work your way up so that it will slide smoothly across the fresh wax drips but not burn any of the wax. For my iron it's set on about 3/7.

As for the mess, I've waxed on all kinds of floors. It's not the waxing that's messy it's the scraping, so you could always take it outside for that part. I've used newspapers, towels, etc and they all work fine, but just be careful you don't walk in the scrapings and start grinding them into the carpet or floor. I usually keep a vac close by and vac up the scrapings right after the scraping's done.


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## Leo (Nov 24, 2009)

I forgot to mention the scraping thing...

I found that using a cut-up garbage bag to be the best method of disposing of the scrapings. One of those large bags. Just cut it at the seams so you can lay it on the floor like a tarp. You can either toss the scrapings out and reuse the bag later or just rid of the whole thing if you don't mind the extra cost of the bags.

I also put a trash can at the end of my board so I can scrape most of the wax right into the can.


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## BoardWalk (Mar 22, 2011)

poutanen said:


> As for the mess, I've waxed on all kinds of floors. It's not the waxing that's messy it's the scraping, so you could always take it outside for that part. I've used newspapers, towels, etc and they all work fine, but just be careful you don't walk in the scrapings and start grinding them into the carpet or floor. I usually keep a vac close by and vac up the scrapings right after the scraping's done.


A roll of painters plastic is cheap and portable, just cut a section off and you have a disposable work area. My issues is trying to keep the dog from walking through the shavings, that's where that hand vac comes into play. It's actually a good way to mellow out with some beer and TV, and be semi productive at the same time.


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## BoardWalk (Mar 22, 2011)

BoardWalk said:


> My issues is


Nice.........


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## poutanen (Dec 22, 2011)

BoardWalk said:


> A roll of painters plastic is cheap and portable, just cut a section off and you have a disposable work area. My issues is trying to keep the dog from walking through the shavings, that's where that hand vac comes into play. It's actually a good way to mellow out with some beer and TV, and be semi productive at the same time.


Good call on the hand vac. Yeah I find waxing sort of therapeutic. It helps me get really stoked for a trip if I do it a few nights before we leave!

I've tried teaching the GF but I end up just having to do her board all the time too... :dunno: I'm thinking maybe I stop waxing hers and when she's bitching about having to unstrap in the flats, maybe she'll get it?


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## Leo (Nov 24, 2009)

poutanen said:


> I've tried teaching the GF but I end up just having to do her board all the time too... :dunno: I'm thinking maybe I stop waxing hers and when she's bitching about having to unstrap in the flats, maybe she'll get it?


My mind went straight to the gutter as I read this...


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## handscreate (Jan 17, 2012)

Thanks guys. I understand the benefits of waxing, I just wasn't sure which method would be better given the plethora of mixed information I've found on the web about exuded bases. 

I'll check out REI today & see what they have in store, but I'm probably picking up wax, etc at Sports Chalet since I have a $20 action pass credit that needs to be used by Saturday & am trying to spend as little $ out of pocket right now as possible. 

And as far as making a mess, it's the scraping mess I'm concerned about, since I have carpet & a four legged friend who's curious about everything, and I don't really have the option to scrape outside unless I want to have wax shavings all over the courtyard of my building & some pissed off neighbors. 

If I give the wax a little structure with a brass brush will it help in slushy spring conditions, or will it be a waste of time/effort?


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## CheeseForSteeze (May 11, 2011)

It will help but not as much as if you were riding powder. A structure not embedded with a stonegrinder into the actual base will be experience abrasion which will destroy it rapidly under anything but fine powder conditions. The reason I try to hold out on getting a grind done until as late in the season as possible is because I typically ride hardpack conditions (frozen granular) and these textures will remove even a well ground pattern. Additionally, the stonegrind helps me the most late in the season when the snow corns.


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## Bones (Feb 24, 2008)

Leo said:


> I also put a trash can at the end of my board so I can scrape most of the wax right into the can.


In my old place, I'd put a clean garbage bag in the garbage can and then just put the board in the can vertically. Scrape the top half of the board and the shavings fall right into the can. Reverse the board for the other half. Once the board is mainly scraped and you're not getting big shavings anymore, then I lay it flat and finish it.

In my new place I have a shop room and shop vac.


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## handscreate (Jan 17, 2012)

@Bones - Thanks, I just might try that. 


I went to Sports Chalet last night & they price matched REI's sale for me, so my $20 credit got me 2 bars of wax (1 warm & 1 cold temp One Ball Jay 4WD), a triangle scraper & some energy/protein bars/gels/beans. I'm planning on using the warm temp in the middle of the board & the cold temp on the edges for the spring slush. 

Is there any harm in mixing the 2 waxes come next season to accomplish more of an "all temp" kind of thing when the weather & snow changes throughout the day, or am I crazy for thinking that?


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## mixie (Mar 29, 2011)

handscreate said:


> Is there any harm in mixing the 2 waxes come next season to accomplish more of an "all temp" kind of thing when the weather & snow changes throughout the day, or am I crazy for thinking that?



not crazy. But wax your board first. I think you'll be able to figure out the answer for yourself. While probably a good idea in theory, it would be hard to do in practice. 

watch someone will post in 3....2....1 on how it's easy to do:dunno:


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## BoardWalk (Mar 22, 2011)

mixie said:


> watch someone will post in 3....2....1 on how it's easy to do:dunno:


It's easy to do...


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## mixie (Mar 29, 2011)

I'm sure it can be done, but how I'm imagining it, it would take too much wax to ensure it's blended well enough to work. You'd be better off just buying different blocks. 


So yeah, it can be done but....is it worth it?


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## handscreate (Jan 17, 2012)

Well, I figured if I either melted it in lines across the.board & then blended it with the iron OR melted 2 temps together in a pot & mixed them well, let it cool in a silicone mold & then used. 

But that's all for next season. Just waxed 1 board & thought it was pretty easy.


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## mixie (Mar 29, 2011)

handscreate said:


> Well, I figured if I either melted it in lines across the.board & then blended it with the iron OR *melted 2 temps together in a pot & mixed them well, let it cool in a silicone mold & then used. *
> 
> But that's all for next season. Just waxed 1 board & thought it was pretty easy.


really? Really!??!! 

clearly, Im quite lazy. :laugh:

now Im waiting for someone to tell me they save the scrapings and remelt them.....


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## poutanen (Dec 22, 2011)

mixie said:


> really? Really!??!!
> 
> clearly, Im quite lazy. :laugh:
> 
> now Im waiting for someone to tell me they save the scrapings and remelt them.....


You don't save your scrapings? :dunno: lol

Honestly to the OP I wouldn't bother trying to combine two waxes to make a mid temp. You'll use the stuff eventually anyway so why not buy a big brick of mid-temp wax at the start of the year. Use the warm stuff this spring, and if you want to get really fancy you can use warm stuff on the base, and mid-temp on the edges to about 2" in, and then in the fall use mid-temp in the middle, and cold on the edges.


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## handscreate (Jan 17, 2012)

mixie said:


> really? Really!??!!
> 
> clearly, Im quite lazy. :laugh:
> 
> now Im waiting for someone to tell me they save the scrapings and remelt them.....


Really, haha! I just ran cold around the edges & warm on the base. I totally saved my scrapings....just kidding! Thought about it, but I'm not that desperate to recoup enough for what might be another waxing. 




poutanen said:


> You don't save your scrapings? :dunno: lol
> 
> Honestly to the OP I wouldn't bother trying to combine two waxes to make a mid temp. You'll use the stuff eventually anyway so why not buy a big brick of mid-temp wax at the start of the year. Use the warm stuff this spring, and if you want to get really fancy you can use warm stuff on the base, and mid-temp on the edges to about 2" in, and then in the fall use mid-temp in the middle, and cold on the edges.


Word. I've been doing this season on a serious budget, like $0. I think I've spent $80 on 3 days of riding including lift tickets. Hopefully I'll be in a better financial situation next season, but I was curious just in case. I know it wouldn't be perfect, but I also see a potential to play chemist - what can I say, I'm a nerd!


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## poutanen (Dec 22, 2011)

handscreate said:


> Word. I've been doing this season on a serious budget, like $0. I think I've spent $80 on 3 days of riding including lift tickets. Hopefully I'll be in a better financial situation next season, but I was curious just in case. I know it wouldn't be perfect, but I also see a potential to play chemist - what can I say, I'm a nerd!


Yeah no worries, honestly though in the grand scheme of things wax is extremely cheap. It'll probably cost more in electricity to heat the stove to melt the wax, and then heat the water to run the dishwasher to clean the pot. 

Just use the warm temp stuff and apply more often until you get the all(mid) temp. I actually use all temp all the time, it does get extremely sluggish in slush but then everything does.


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