# Thirty Two TM-Two too small?



## bazman

*Am going for the heat mold*

I ordered another pair of boots a half-size larger and they were delivered today. When wearing them I can still feel my foot being pushed forward in the boot, but my toes only touch the front of the liner on my longer left foot

My bare foot in the footbed has lots of space in the front.

Therefore I've decided to return these larger ones, and go for heat molding on the smaller ones. Will try the rice method tomorrow, as it seems safer. Will report back the results!


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## fathomz

i just got a pair of thirtytwo exits. at first my toes were jammed into the front. i used a heat gun at work to do the heat molding and then tapped the back of my heels on the ground once they were in the boot to make sure i was all the way back. they broke in just fine and i can tell will fit properly.


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## bazman

*What size?*

Thanks Fathomz,

I rice heated mine but still way too painful so will be trying a half size up.

Out of interest what's your Mondo size (longest foot length in mm) and what size boot do you have?

Cheers, Barry


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## Parkerross

its a part of having the right size boot, you have pain for about 7 or 8 days then they will fit like a glove. Or get them heat molded and shorten the lifespan of your boot.


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## fathomz

bazman said:


> Thanks Fathomz,
> 
> I rice heated mine but still way too painful so have returned them and gone a half size up.
> 
> Out of interest what's your Mondo size (longest foot length in mm) and what size boot do you have?
> 
> Cheers, Barry


never measured.. but i wear a 13 shoe and always been ok in 13 boots.


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## fathomz

Parkerross said:


> its a part of having the right size boot, you have pain for about 7 or 8 days then they will fit like a glove. Or get them heat molded and shorten the lifespan of your boot.


i disagree. if you heat mold the LINERS that are meant to be fitted that way they will in no way shorten the lifespan of the boot. Also if you properly fit the boot, and stand around in them for a couple hours before hitting the snow you should be ok and not have pain. best way to "pack out" is to heat mold liners that work that way and then wear the boots around awhile BEFORE snowboarding.


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## Parkerross

This is why this forum is a joke... most people on here are newbs who don't know shit about snowboarding. Ask anyone else who really knows about snowboarding heat molding your boots takes the break in period out and and is equivalent to putting days in your boots. If you want sloppy boots heat mold them if you want them to fit your foot just right wear them tight and break them in naturally. Performance fit is the best fit.


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## Parkerross

Also stop buying shit online and guessing your size get fit at a shop and then buy the boots at the local shop.


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## fathomz

Parkerross said:


> This is why this forum is a joke... most people on here are newbs who don't know shit about snowboarding. Ask anyone else who really knows about snowboarding heat molding your boots takes the break in period out and and is equivalent to putting days in your boots. If you want sloppy boots heat mold them if you want them to fit your foot just right wear them tight and break them in naturally. Performance fit is the best fit.


you mad bro? why would they be sold as heat moldable liners and sell the shops equipment to fit them so? im questioning your knowledge about snowboarding because you think a rider should endure 7-10 days of pain in order to "naturally" break in their boots. complete nonsense.


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## Brewtown

Parkerross said:


> This is why this forum is a joke... most people on here are newbs who don't know shit about snowboarding. Ask anyone else who really knows about snowboarding heat molding your boots takes the break in period out and and is equivalent to putting days in your boots. If you want sloppy boots heat mold them if you want them to fit your foot just right wear them tight and break them in naturally. Performance fit is the best fit.


Why would heat molding make your boots sloppy? Let's say boots are designed to pack out roughly a half size, what difference would it make if you ride in them out of the box and wait 10 days to break in vs heat molding and having them fit from day 1? I'm no boot fitter but I don't follow your logic.


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## Parkerross

Go to a shop ask them if you don't believe me. here's another thread talking about the same thing http://www.snowboardingforum.com/boots/41922-heat-mold-not-heat-mold.html Heat molding breaks down the liner slightly if you heat mold multiple times it breaks it down even more.


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## Brewtown

Parkerross said:


> Go to a shop ask them if you don't believe me. here's another thread talking about the same thing http://www.snowboardingforum.com/boots/41922-heat-mold-not-heat-mold.html Heat molding breaks down the liner slightly if you heat mold multiple times it breaks it down even more.


So this forum is a joke, yet you cite a thread from this forum to support your argument? And every shop I've ever been to recommends a heat mold. Yeah I live in the midwest and most of the shop kids around here don't know shit, but that includes shops I've visited in CO and SLC. 

I'm not trying to start an internet fight, if there's some logic to what your saying I'd be very interested to hear about it. Liners are designed to expand to conform to your foot when heat is applied; so yes you should buy a very snug fitting boot to allow for some break in, however I don't understand the benefit of enduring 10 painful days of riding when you can accomplish the same thing through a heat mold. Do the machines shops use damage the liner? Do they reach a temperature that breaks down the material faster than your body heat? If there's something I'm unaware of enlighten me.


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## MMSlasher

While I get shopping locally is best, some people don't have that option. I tried to shop locally, but ended up buying online since I saved ~40% off of the local shops price. Price talks and I respect anyones decision to pay full price every time they want to buy something, but there is no way I am that type of person. Furthermore, I've been in a few "local" shops just window shopping and at times, you could tell they were just trying to move gear and not take into account what really fit what I wanted. So, I personally, don't always trust "local" shops. I know that I am not the only one that has happened to.

Anyways, I agree, boots need to at least be tried on before buying, but I would and do gladly exchange those 7-10 days of painful riding for heat molding. I'd rather buy another pair of boots sooner than deal with the pain.


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## bazman

I did try on some boots in the shop at my local indoor slope, but they either didn't have my size or weren't the right type of boots for me (I only want traditional lacing)

I then checked stock of the only other snowboard retailer within travelling distance of me, but they were all out of the sizes that would fit me.

The only choice I had left was to order online and try them at home

Next time I want boots I'll go to a shop much earlier in the season to get a wider choice


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## Ghost of Alka

OP, in reality, your toes SHOULD be touching the front of your boot when you're standing after first putting them on. Think about it, when you snowboard, you snowboard with your knees slightly bent, not standing straight up. When your knees are bent, your toes should suck back slightly from the end of the boot. Granted, your toes shouldn't be curled at the end of the boot, nor should you be in severe pain; however, they will definitely feel tight and not that comfortable out of the box.

With that said, the boots should pack out about a half size, whether that's from riding/use or from heat molding. I would definitely recommend heat molding them through a proper shop. I know people are mentioning using heat guns or ovens and doing it at home, but honestly, just take it to a shop and they'll get you dialed in. Thirty-two also gives each dealer a boot fit kit that includes toe caps for the heat mold process. If you feel that the boot's toe box is a bit tight, just put the caps on during the molding process and it should expand the toe box area to make it roomier for you while you're riding. I definitely think you made the right decision in returning the larger boots. If you can't even touch the end of the boot before it's broken in, it's too big for you.

Shops recommend a heat mold, because it's an easier sell to consumers. Boot is a bit warm, cushy, easy to slip in rather than cold, tight, etc. Most of my friends (granted these are 100+ day riders) prefer to break their boots in the "natural" way, instead of heat molding them, but keep in mind, these are not your normal shop customers.


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## Parkerross

fathomz said:


> you mad bro? why would they be sold as heat moldable liners and sell the shops equipment to fit them so? im questioning your knowledge about snowboarding because you think a rider should endure 7-10 days of pain in order to "naturally" break in their boots. complete nonsense.


They have heat moldable option for people that don't want to ride through the break in period. Its a lot easier to sell the average consumer boots that fit comfy, I'm just saying it takes days off the life of your boots and most people that ride a lot don't heat mold cause they want there boots to last as long as possible. Its not non-sense do your research, its speeding up a process that usually meant to take multiple days to stretch your boots to fit right. You're putting the same wear on the liners as you would in 10 days or so naturally doing that same stretching process in 30 mins or so


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## fathomz

i still don't see the logic that taking 10 days off the break in period shortens the lifespan of the boot..


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## jae

I'd personally get heat fitted on boots if they're uncomfortable, but thank god my current boots are good right out of the box with a performance fit. save a couple bucks vs pain... with boot pain you can ride a lot less than what you would have saved by prolonging the life of the boot. i.e. calling it early because your foot fucking hurts for 8 days. I don't have fun riding with pain in my feet. 

let's do some math here (I suck at it, so feel free to correct me). tm-two's run for about $310 new, $220 on sale. for simplicity sake, let's use the more expensive price. idk how long they last, but let's say 90 days of hard riding without getting a heat fit. that's $3.44 a day you would be paying by not getting a heat fit. with a heat fit the boot is reduced to 80days and at a cost of $3.88 a day. 
in 1 year, let's say the above average rider rides about 40 days a season. heat fitted boots last 2 years, naturally fitted boots 2.25 years. over a 10 year period the heat fitter spent... $1550 on 5 pairs of boots while the natural booter spent $1377.77 on his 4th pair saving him $172.23 compared to the heat fitter. 
heat fitter had 0 days of pain/discomfort, while natural booter had 40 days of pain/and or discomfort. 

tl;dr: my math sucks. is this right?
$3.44 a day on TM-two's without heat fit
$3.88 a day on TM-two's with heat fit
save $172.23 in 10 year period. 40 days of pain/discomfort. 


our resident boot fitter thinks we should all heat fit boots if they're heat fit liners. it supports the industry in the long run right? lol

p.s. I do agree that heat fitting does lower the longevity of boots, but I think it's worth it.


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## Wiredsport

Parkerross said:


> They have heat moldable option for people that don't want to ride through the break in period. Its a lot easier to sell the average consumer boots that fit comfy, I'm just saying it takes days off the life of your boots and most people that ride a lot don't heat mold cause they want there boots to last as long as possible. Its not non-sense do your research, its speeding up a process that usually meant to take multiple days to stretch your boots to fit right. You're putting the same wear on the liners as you would in 10 days or so naturally doing that same stretching process in 30 mins or so


Hi Parker,

I appreciate your comments here. Let me throw another opinion out there. Heat molding boots that use EVA liners (almost all boots now) will be a benefit in every instance (provided that the manufacturer recommended temperatures are respected). This has absolutely no impact on boot or liner longevity. Additionally, natural break is no substitute for a heat fit. Natural break in only compresses liner material. A heat fit will move liner material to the negative areas of the foot. This is not a subtle difference. All boots with EVA liners should be heat molded. This should be done at the time of purchase but certainly before riding. In a perfect world you would get to heat mold before purchase as you really do not know the true fit of a boot until this process is complete.

STOKED!


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## bazman

Hi All,

Thanks for the advice

I did end up going to a better shop that's further away, and tried on some more boots. The 32's have nice heel hold, but the boot tongue is very stiff and when I lean forward it puts pressure on the top of my foot and is painful so I have discounted those completely

I ended up getting some Burton Ion's, in a UK 8.5. Again, I was borderline in the UK 8, which hurt my left foot due to toes being bunched up at the front. The boots are a good fit (toes touch when standing straight, but not when leaning forward), but heel hold isn't as good as the 32's. I rode today with the new boots, and had to crank them tight with the heel harness to reduce this. Burton are also sending me some J bars for free, which attach by velcro to the inside of the boot.

Should I go back to the shop and get a heat mold with the J bars installed?

Cheers, Barry


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## Wiredsport

bazman said:


> Hi All,
> 
> Thanks for the advice
> 
> I did end up going to a better shop that's further away, and tried on some more boots. The 32's have nice heel hold, but the boot tongue is very stiff and when I lean forward it puts pressure on the top of my foot and is painful so I have discounted those completely
> 
> I ended up getting some Burton Ion's, in a UK 8.5. Again, I was borderline in the UK 8, which hurt my left foot due to toes being bunched up at the front. The boots are a good fit (toes touch when standing straight, but not when leaning forward), but heel hold isn't as good as the 32's. I rode today with the new boots, and had to crank them tight with the heel harness to reduce this. Burton are also sending me some J bars for free, which attach by velcro to the inside of the boot.
> 
> Should I go back to the shop and get a heat mold with the J bars installed?
> 
> Cheers, Barry


Hi Barry,

I would like to get a look at your barefoot measurements. If your originally posted measurements are correct then you have a "Wide" E width foot that you are trying to fit into a "Normal" D width boot. To correct this you have upsized a full boot size over your Mondo size (You are Mondo 263 which is UK 7.5). This is very common but it is poor solution and is typically associated with the issues that you are describing. 

Please post of pictures of your barefoot length and width measurements.

Thanks!


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## bazman

Hi Wiredsport,

Thanks for the info - I'll take fresh measurements and post some pics later.

I did try on UK size 8.0 boots in the shop. The width felt fine, it was the length that felt tight.

Cheers, Barry


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## fathomz

Parkerross said:


> Go to a shop ask them if you don't believe me. here's another thread talking about the same thing http://www.snowboardingforum.com/boots/41922-heat-mold-not-heat-mold.html Heat molding breaks down the liner slightly if you heat mold multiple times it breaks it down even more.


i don't claim to be a hardcore rider.. but i've never had the liner in my boots fail me. i've had a pair of northwave decades for a long ass time. i just got two pairs of thirtytwos and heat molded both. it will be interesting to see if they break down before the shell of the boot since this seems to be what you are selling us on.


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## Wiredsport

bazman said:


> Hi Wiredsport,
> 
> Thanks for the info - I'll take fresh measurements and post some pics later.
> 
> I did try on UK size 8.0 boots in the shop. The width felt fine, it was the length that felt tight.
> 
> Cheers, Barry


Hi Barry, your measurements are not size 8 but rather 7.5 UK. A normal width toe box with a wide foot will make the boot feel to short at the outer toes. Let's see if this is your issue.


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## bazman

*Pics*

Here are the pics....

I make the measurements as:

Right	264mm x 97mm
Left	266mm x 96mm


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## Wiredsport

bazman said:


> Here are the pics....
> 
> I make the measurements as:
> 
> Right	264mm x 97mm
> Left	266mm x 96mm


266 moves you up to Mondo 270. You have a "normal" D width foot. Your are a very easy UK 8 (smallest foot that would use that size). I would like you to remove the insert from your boots, stand on the insert with your heel back in the heel indent and take some photos.


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## bazman

*Footbed pics*

Here you go....


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## Wiredsport

bazman said:


> Here you go....


Got it. For most performance snowboard boots your bare foot will overhang the liner by ~1 cm. In that scenario, you will have firm pressure into the compiant materials of the liner (both toe and heel). What I am seeing in your images is consitan with a boot that is 1 full size (1 cm) too large.


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## bazman

Thanks Wired.

I did try the 8's on in the shop, and although they were a tighter fit, I didn't notice any less heel lift than the ones I have.

I didn't try a 7.5 though - will need to go back to the shop and see what they can do

How tight should a boot with an unmolded liner be? eg toes curled, or straight and compressed into the liner?


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## Wiredsport

These are our FAQ tips:

Your boots should be snug!

The most common complaint about boots is that they are too loose, not too tight. The junction between rider and board begins with the boot, as it is in the most direct contact with the rider. When fitting boots, use the following method: A. Slip into the boot. B. Kick your heel back against the ground several times to drive it back into the boot's heel pocket. C. Lace the boot tightly, as though you were going to ride. NOTE: This is where most sizing mistakes are made. A snowboard boot is shaped like an upside down "7". The back has a good degree of forward lean. Thus, when you drop into the boot, your heel may be resting up to an inch away from the back of the boot, and your toes may be jammed into the front of the boot. Until the boot is tightly laced, you will not know if it is a proper fit. D. Your toes should now have firm pressure against the front of the boot. As this is the crux of sizing, let's discuss firm pressure: When you flex your knee forward hard, the pressure should lighten, or cease, as your toes pull back. At no time should you feel numbness or lose circulation. Your toes will be in contact with the end of the boot, unlike in a properly fit street or athletic shoe (snowboard boots are designed to fit more snugly than your other shoes). When you have achieved this combination of firm pressure and no circulation loss, you have found the correct size!


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## bazman

Thanks Wired.

Am heading back to the shop on Saturday, and will hopefully be able to try the smaller size again to see if that improves heel lift problem


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## snoway

I found this thread trying to figure out if my Thirty Two TM Twos are too small. It has a wealth of information which makes me think the boots will be ok. I am just worried cos my toes are pretty bunched up but not to the point of pain and when I take out the insoles and step on them my toes on my right foot have slight overhang, my left foot is just on the limit. 

I haven't had them heat molded yet cos the shop's machine wasn't working. I can get them heat molded at the shop the start of next season and hopefully they will be a bit more comfortable.


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## Bataleon85

I have mixed feelings about heat molding tbh. I ride DCs, 32s and K2s. My DC parks and 32 Chris Bradshaws were perfect after a day or two of riding out of the box, but every single pair of K2 boots I've owned have been ridiculously uncomfortable until heat molded, even after quite a few days of use. I have noticed that brands that are more specifically tailored to riders seem to have more attention paid to the details riders want so that might be a factor. I'll agree with wired that a proper size boot should be snug at first. If a boot is too comfy out of the box, chances are it's too big and will turn to unresponsive slop as it packs out. It's just part of the game man. We gotta suffer from new boots for a little while lol

Sent from my SM-G935T using Tapatalk


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## 2coo

Also found this thread while searching for a proper thirtytwo fit. Bought 11.5 tm two and i am wearing 11.5 sneakers. I also have a feeling that my toes are hitting the wall of the boot, but as soon as i get in the proper stance my heel goes where it is supposed to be and it is better. My concern was if they were to small and if i should go a size up, but after reading this thread i feel confident that 11.5 is the right size for me. I guess a little sacrifice in the beginning, boot being a tad to small, will pay off later and will help me achieve that snug fit. 

Thanks guys


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## MrEgg

Think is all boots are different sizes.
If Thirty Two dont fit, they dont fit. You cant make them fit & they will just be uncomfortable.
Ive had Thirty Two boots & same issue about them feeling small. Especially in the toebox area.
Throw in some custom footbeds & you are going to be in a world of pain.

I have cavus foot/high arches & suffer from the worst heal lift. I have since swapped to Salomon SJ/Straight Jacket which are a good fit for me.


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## Wiredsport

2coo said:


> Also found this thread while searching for a proper thirtytwo fit. Bought 11.5 tm two and i am wearing 11.5 sneakers. I also have a feeling that my toes are hitting the wall of the boot, but as soon as i get in the proper stance my heel goes where it is supposed to be and it is better. My concern was if they were to small and if i should go a size up, but after reading this thread i feel confident that 11.5 is the right size for me. I guess a little sacrifice in the beginning, boot being a tad to small, will pay off later and will help me achieve that snug fit.
> 
> Thanks guys


Hi 2coo,

Your US snowboard boot size should never match your Brannock shoe size (sneaker size). It is best not to use shoe size as your starting point. Please post up your barefoot measurements if you would like to confirm.


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## wrathfuldeity

@Wiredsport not to derail...but do you do ski boots? I'm a fruitboot noob investigating the option for bc touring.


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## Wiredsport

wrathfuldeity said:


> @Wiredsport not to derail...but do you do ski boots? I'm a fruitboot noob investigating the option for bc touring.


Hi Wrath,

We don't sell any ski gear but BC touring can be awesome. Great workout .


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## theradio82

sorry for the hijack but i have some questions on the same boot, sizing issues as well, so i thought it would be good not to start yet nother thread. also been on this forum before but lost password and email address :-(

however i got a pair of tm-twos in 9.5, i've had celsius cirrus in 9.5 before and lashed in 10 before these and the lashed was always a bit too big when broken in so had pressure points etc. loved the cirrus but they're badly distributed in the eu so i didn't want import hassle. haven't bought boots for 6 years so the knowing of how the cirrus' felt out of the box is gone except for how i spent hours and hours in my room putting them on and off asking myself if they fit or are being too small. ended up bering perfect.

now in the tm 2s i realize how damn light they are in comparison but also feel a lot less comfortable out of the box (probably the overall stiffness of the outer boot and a different liner that has less cushion, hopefully a good thing as they may pack out less). i think the length works perfect with being quite uncomfortably snug at the toes but being better when i lean forward (although i was surprised how few "spare"material is at the toe of the lines, i'd have thought there should be more so the toes can make the room they need there), width of the forefoot is just snag i'd say. not sure about the heel hold. i know my foot is supposed to mold into the back of the liner, but now i can lift up my heels a bit when i force my feet from the natural 90° to my leg to let's say 120°. is the heel supposed to move up if doing that? would a heel hold kit be a good idea? also i get some pressure points at my foots instep (basically exactly where the one elevated bit of bone is in the middle foot, don't know how that one is called). i have quite thing ankles so i've had some issues with the cirrus on heel hold until i put in the heel hold wedges that come with the boots. also i get a bit uncomfortable feeling some numbing when wearing them for a bit, which never happened with the cirrus in the beginning.... any thoughts?


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## theradio82

Wiredsport said:


> These are our FAQ tips:
> 
> Your boots should be snug!
> 
> The most common complaint about boots is that they are too loose, not too tight. The junction between rider and board begins with the boot, as it is in the most direct contact with the rider. When fitting boots, use the following method: A. Slip into the boot. B. Kick your heel back against the ground several times to drive it back into the boot's heel pocket. C. Lace the boot tightly, as though you were going to ride. NOTE: This is where most sizing mistakes are made. A snowboard boot is shaped like an upside down "7". The back has a good degree of forward lean. Thus, when you drop into the boot, your heel may be resting up to an inch away from the back of the boot, and your toes may be jammed into the front of the boot. Until the boot is tightly laced, you will not know if it is a proper fit. D. Your toes should now have firm pressure against the front of the boot. As this is the crux of sizing, let's discuss firm pressure: When you flex your knee forward hard, the pressure should lighten, or cease, as your toes pull back. At no time should you feel numbness or lose circulation. Your toes will be in contact with the end of the boot, unlike in a properly fit street or athletic shoe (snowboard boots are designed to fit more snugly than your other shoes). When you have achieved this combination of firm pressure and no circulation loss, you have found the correct size!


so, i've been wandering through this thread and especially @Wiredsport 's comments and am totally confused now. from what you size I've been upsizing my boots around 1,5 sizes ever since... my feet are 26,5cm (L), 26,1 (R) in length, width around 9,5. here's some pictures of my feet on the insoles of the 9,5 tm-twos i just got. they fit so snug i couldn't even imagine forcing into a 8.5 or even 8... am i getting something wrong?


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## neni

wrathfuldeity said:


> @Wiredsport not to derail...but do you do ski boots? I'm a fruitboot noob investigating the option for bc touring.


Same story... you want them snug. Maybe not _that_ super snug as a softboot, as the shell of a AT boot wont break in.
I had the experience that in shops with ski boots, dudes take the fitting way more serious than the kids in snowboarding shops over here. Don't you have a good shop selling ski touring stuff? They maybe won't know yet about the AT for splitboard purpose and thus won't understand why you need a soft AT boot with as much flex as possible, but the fitting to the foot is the same as for touring ski purpose.


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## SGboarder

theradio82 said:


> sorry for the hijack but i have some questions on the same boot, sizing issues as well, so i thought it would be good not to start yet nother thread. also been on this forum before but lost password and email address :-(
> 
> however i got a pair of tm-twos in 9.5, i've had celsius cirrus in 9.5 before and lashed in 10 before these and the lashed was always a bit too big when broken in so had pressure points etc. loved the cirrus but they're badly distributed in the eu so i didn't want import hassle. haven't bought boots for 6 years so the knowing of how the cirrus' felt out of the box is gone except for how i spent hours and hours in my room putting them on and off asking myself if they fit or are being too small. ended up bering perfect.
> 
> now in the tm 2s i realize how damn light they are in comparison but also feel a lot less comfortable out of the box (probably the overall stiffness of the outer boot and a different liner that has less cushion, hopefully a good thing as they may pack out less). i think the length works perfect with being quite uncomfortably snug at the toes but being better when i lean forward (although i was surprised how few "spare"material is at the toe of the lines, i'd have thought there should be more so the toes can make the room they need there), width of the forefoot is just snag i'd say. not sure about the heel hold. i know my foot is supposed to mold into the back of the liner, but now i can lift up my heels a bit when i force my feet from the natural 90° to my leg to let's say 120°. is the heel supposed to move up if doing that? would a heel hold kit be a good idea? also i get some pressure points at my foots instep (basically exactly where the one elevated bit of bone is in the middle foot, don't know how that one is called). i have quite thing ankles so i've had some issues with the cirrus on heel hold until i put in the heel hold wedges that come with the boots. also i get a bit uncomfortable feeling some numbing when wearing them for a bit, which never happened with the cirrus in the beginning.... any thoughts?


Those are all signs of a boot that is too large...



theradio82 said:


> so, i've been wandering through this thread and especially @Wiredsport 's comments and am totally confused now. from what you size I've been upsizing my boots around 1,5 sizes ever since... my feet are 26,5cm (L), 26,1 (R) in length, width around 9,5. here's some pictures of my feet on the insoles of the 9,5 tm-twos i just got. they fit so snug i couldn't even imagine forcing into a 8.5 or even 8... am i getting something wrong?


...and the pictures confirm that: Those insoles are shorter than your feet! Should be the other way around - how else can you get your toes to push into the liner material without sliding forward inside the boot?


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## theradio82

so my toes will hang over the insoles once the boots are packed in? i find that hard to believe, i thought insoles are made to cushion the entire foot...


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## SGboarder

theradio82 said:


> so my toes will hang over the insoles once the boots are packed in? i find that hard to believe, i thought insoles are made to cushion the entire foot...


Your toes normally will hang over the insole regardless whether the boot is packed in or not (since the insole does not shrink or expand).
Most of the overhang will be the part of your toes that is curving up which is not supported by the insole anyway.


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## theradio82

SGboarder said:


> Your toes normally will hang over the insole regardless whether the boot is packed in or not (since the insole does not shrink or expand).
> Most of the overhang will be the part of your toes that is curving up which is not supported by the insole anyway.


i understand, thank you. so from my measurements i would be a mondo 26.5 thus US 8.5 woul be the best bet for the first size to try right?


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## Wiredsport

theradio82 said:


> so, i've been wandering through this thread and especially @Wiredsport 's comments and am totally confused now. from what you size I've been upsizing my boots around 1,5 sizes ever since... my feet are 26,5cm (L), 26,1 (R) in length, width around 9,5. here's some pictures of my feet on the insoles of the 9,5 tm-twos i just got. they fit so snug i couldn't even imagine forcing into a 8.5 or even 8... am i getting something wrong?


Hi radio,

Yes, your images show what would be expected of a boot that is too large. Your are Mondo 265 (size 8.5 US in snowboard boots) at a "standard" D width. In a correctly fit boot your foot will always overhang the insert (up to 1 cm of overhang is expected). That allows the firm pressure into the compliant liner materials (both toe and heel) that is required for a correct fit.

If you would like us to confirm your measurements we will be happy to do that. Please post up some measurement photos.

Stoked!


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## theradio82

thanks a lot for your help, @Wiredsport, a measurement confirmation would be ace, that's very nice of you. here's some pictures. it's a bit tough to measure and photograph by myself so i did 2 shots, one with my heel/side to a bottle and one to the wall, both with different rulers


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## Wiredsport

theradio82 said:


> thanks a lot for your help, @Wiredsport, a measurement confirmation would be ace, that's very nice of you. here's some pictures. it's a bit tough to measure and photograph by myself so i did 2 shots, one with my heel/side to a bottle and one to the wall, both with different rulers


Hi Radio,

Width should be measured differently. For width please place the inside (medial side) of your foot against a wall. Please then measure from the wall out to the widest point on the lateral (outside) of your foot. One of your feet appears to already be measuring over 10 cm width. That # looks like it will increase when you measure correctly. 

Also, it looks like your length may be a bit over 26.5 cm in length. If that is the case we would move you up to Mondo 270 or size 9 (range is 26.6 cm to 27 cm).

PS: it looks like you have two very different measurements for your right foot (two different rulers?). Please examine why that might be.


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## theradio82

hello wiredsport, with the measurements taken the way you asked right foot would be 9,8 cm, left foot 9,5

on your PS: very sure the wooden ruler is more accurate and the 26cm it shows are correct


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## wrathfuldeity

neni said:


> Same story... you want them snug. Maybe not _that_ super snug as a softboot, as the shell of a AT boot wont break in.
> I had the experience that in shops with ski boots, dudes take the fitting way more serious than the kids in snowboarding shops over here. Don't you have a good shop selling ski touring stuff? They maybe won't know yet about the AT for splitboard purpose and thus won't understand why you need a soft AT boot with as much flex as possible, but the fitting to the foot is the same as for touring ski purpose.


There is a backcountry ski core shop and have been talking with the go to old bootfitter who does lots of AT work and for the past couple years a few splitty folks. I'm in his appointment book and waiting to hear from Atomic about sizes...hopefully the rep will bring up some boots in my size.


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## Wiredsport

theradio82 said:


> hello wiredsport, with the measurements taken the way you asked right foot would be 9,8 cm, left foot 9,5
> 
> on your PS: very sure the wooden ruler is more accurate and the 26cm it shows are correct


Please post up your 4 final measurement photos showing the whole foot length and width.


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## theradio82

Wiredsport said:


> Please post up your 4 final measurement photos showing the whole foot length and width.


final 4 measurements here they come. it is evening where i am so they seem to be a big bigger than this morning :-D


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## Wiredsport

theradio82 said:


> final 4 measurements here they come. it is evening where i am so they seem to be a big bigger than this morning :-D


Got it. You are a Mono 265 (8.5 US) in an E width. I would suggest that you downsize to your Mondo size in the Salomon Dialogue Wide or Synapse Wide (the Salomon Wide boots are the only boots designed for E width). You should get a much better fit there and a lot of added performance.

STOKED!


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## theradio82

Wiredsport said:


> Got it. You are a Mono 265 (8.5 US) in an E width. I would suggest that you downsize to your Mondo size in the Salomon Dialogue Wide or Synapse Wide (the Salomon Wide boots are the only boots designed for E width). You should get a much better fit there and a lot of added performance.
> 
> STOKED!


thank you very much for your help and suggestion!


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## theradio82

so, sorry for ignoring all your suggestions (except the mondo size) but as I couldn't find pairs of the salomon boots you suggested I basically gave the tm-twos in US 8.5 a shot as that refers to my mondo size for thirtytwo. as I am not used to stiff boots like these (my old celsius cirrus now feel like moon boots in comparison) and a lot of people mentioning it took them a while to break them in (up to 8 days if i remember correctly) i was prepared for having some patience. i rice method heat molded them according to intuition's instructions and wore them at least 10hrs at home. also rode for 10 short days now (I get to jib outside in the garden as we had some remarkable early urban snow), so I put about 20-25 hrs of riding into them, maybe 5 more if you count shoveling etc, 3 days of them riding slopes on the mountain, 7 jibbing.

I have to say I never wore boots as responsive as the tm2 and my riding has improved a lot since i have them. still i face some issues of toe pressure and therefore some slight numbing. basically if i sit with the boots in the living room or stand bending my knees to a riding position everything is fine. however if i stand straight or hike and shovel a lot of course i don't stay in a bent knee position, hence toes get pushed against the front. when I jib it kind of jumps between a bit numbing and being fine. when i ride on the slopes it initially is fine with a little numbing. however as slopes get bumpy after a few hours my riding style changes, i do have to put more pressure on the heel edge and do so more often. last time we went riding the final descent after 3 1/2 hrs of riding was terribly painful to my toes therefor. 

do you guys think this will work out over time or with some better understanding how to lace up, what socks to wear or possibly a different insole or am I doomed to fail with this boot?


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## Wiredsport

bazman said:


> Thanks Wired.
> 
> I did try the 8's on in the shop, and although they were a tighter fit, I didn't notice any less heel lift than the ones I have.
> 
> I didn't try a 7.5 though - will need to go back to the shop and see what they can do
> 
> How tight should a boot with an unmolded liner be? eg toes curled, or straight and compressed into the liner?


Here are some baseline tips:

Your boots should be snug!

The most common complaint about boots is that they are too loose, not too tight. The junction between rider and board begins with the boot, as it is in the most direct contact with the rider. When fitting boots, use the following method: A. Slip into the boot. B. Kick your heel back against the ground several times to drive it back into the boot's heel pocket. C. Lace the boot tightly, as though you were going to ride. NOTE: This is where most sizing mistakes are made. A snowboard boot is shaped like an upside down "7". The back has a good degree of forward lean. Thus, when you drop into the boot, your heel may be resting up to an inch away from the back of the boot, and your toes may be jammed into the front of the boot. Until the boot is tightly laced, you will not know if it is a proper fit. D. Your toes should now have firm pressure against the front of the boot. As this is the crux of sizing, let's discuss firm pressure: When you flex your knee forward hard, the pressure should lighten, or cease, as your toes pull back. At no time should you feel numbness or lose circulation. Your toes will be in contact with the end of the boot, unlike in a properly fit street or athletic shoe (snowboard boots are designed to fit more snugly than your other shoes). When you have achieved this combination of firm pressure and no circulation loss, you have found the correct size!


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## Legendaryl

Good Day Guys, I know this post have been long posted. Would like to seek for @Wiredsport for some help please.

Whenever I board, I feel the underside of my foot burn... Its like those burning pain underfoot (below the balls/forefoot of the feet, internally where the arch is) and it makes me not be able to board further.
I bought a ThirtyTwo Binary Double Boa, US10 size after a bootfitter fit me and said it was fine and not sure if it is too large as it was my first time.
I'm not sure what was causing the pain, not sure if I need a custom footbed made.
I don't notice any heel lift etc.. but I could be just to preoccupied with learning how to board.

Would really appreciate if you could look at my photos of my feet with the insoles as I followed the uploads of other users here. Thank you in advance @Wiredsport !


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