# Rome 390 Boss or Union Force for NS Evo?



## Leo (Nov 24, 2009)

I have Bosses on the Evo. Awesome combo. I'm just not into Union. Really disliked the 2012 Force and Contact Pro.

I also have 2011 Burton Restricted Hail boots in 9.5. It has shrinkage tech and I can fit them into my L/XL Boss bindings. Takes some adjustments so read up on the manual first.

My vote goes to

390 Boss >>>>>>>>> Union Force


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## bellaisa (Mar 4, 2011)

Thanks Leo. I doubt my Freestyle have shrinkage tech. I think it might be too big for S/M on the 390's but I'm getting a killer deal on a blue/white combo. But if I can't fit it, which site have the best prices on the 390's new?


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## PanHandler (Dec 23, 2010)

just dont complain when the paint on your 390 boss starts chipping on you after an hour on the snow.


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## Leo (Nov 24, 2009)

PanHandler said:


> just dont complain when the paint on your 390 boss starts chipping on you after an hour on the snow.


Yea, they do chip easy. Thankfully Rome will gladly give you new highbacks if that's the case. Rome warranty is a beast.

By the way, I rather have chipped up paint than a crappy toe strap that doesn't even fit my boot correctly.

Performance >>>>>>> aesthetics

Therefore

Rome >>>>>>> Union


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## crazyface (Mar 1, 2008)

I'd go with the Forces. You are going to be stuck in the middle of the Rome sizes. The only advantage that Bosses have over Forces is canted footbeds, but Forces have better ratchets and a softer highback.


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## bellaisa (Mar 4, 2011)

yea, the only thing that worries me are the sizing of the Romes. decisions..


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## Leo (Nov 24, 2009)

crazyface said:


> I'd go with the Forces. You are going to be stuck in the middle of the Rome sizes. The only advantage that Bosses have over Forces is canted footbeds, but Forces have better ratchets and a softer highback.


He's just one of few people who have a problem with sizing.

I even made suggestions to another rider who was having the same issue with his Targas as crazyface. After he took some time to adjust them, he ended up loving them.

Not to discount crazyface's opinion, but he is a rare case. And Forces have better ratchets? On the ankle maybe. That toe ratchet is wretched. Again, the toe strap doesn't even hug your boot completely. Don't see Forces winning here.

Another good binding to consider is the Ride Delta. Superb toe strap, but a bit stiffer than the Boss and Force. Ratchets are okay, not horrible or great.

If you go with Rome and have problems adjusting the fit, I'll be glad to help you out as well. If my 9.5 Shrinkage boots fit without a problem in the L/XL, I doubt you will have issues with your boots.


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## ptapia (Dec 1, 2010)

I have L/XL bosses with a size 9 thirtytwo Prion. Took a few trips to really get the fit dialed in for me, but now I couldn't be happier. 

As said before the paint will pretty much chip off if you even think about shredding. 

A Rome rep contacted me on the forum offering new highbacks. I think thats pretty awesome! As for getting new ones, I think it would just happen again, so ultimately performance over aesthetics. 

Oh and as for the ratchets, I think they're pretty smooth. Just don't take off if the ratchet isn't locked down, that'll cause some slip and release. Otherwise they release real smooth and everything else is freakin' sweet!

I can't comment on Union, I checked them out, but never ridden a pair...


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## Leo (Nov 24, 2009)

ptapia said:


> I have L/XL bosses with a size 9 thirtytwo Prion. Took a few trips to really get the fit dialed in for me, but now I couldn't be happier.
> 
> As said before the paint will pretty much chip off if you even think about shredding.
> 
> ...


Yet another rider with smaller boots like me that adjusted L/XL Rome bindings to fit properly. 

Take note Bellaisa: Crazy face has a larger boot than us and owns a S/M Boss. He tried on the L/XL IN THE STORE and said it didn't fit. He said he made all the adjustments in the store, but I find that doubtful. How many people bring a tool into the store or ask an employee for one and start unscrewing stuff on the binding?

Crazyface flat out didn't take time to adjust the L/XL in my opinion. Sorry, I tried to be quite before, but I'm calling you out now that you are going into Rome Boss threads talking about poor sizing.


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## crazyface (Mar 1, 2008)

Leo said:


> He's just one of few people who have a problem with sizing.
> 
> I even made suggestions to another rider who was having the same issue with his Targas as crazyface. After he took some time to adjust them, he ended up loving them.
> 
> ...


Union ratchets, in my experience are better than Rome ratchets in every way possible. The ladders ratchet in and out extremely smoothly on my forces while my toe ratchet on my bosses gets stuck almost every run. Riding in spring conditions I have ice or slush get on my Rome ladders and they would not ratchet without my getting the slush off, never had a problem in 3 seasons with my Forces. Strap too tight on the lift? With my forces, I can safely loosen any of my straps one or two "teeth" without worrying about my strap coming completely off. With Romes, there is no way I would dream of doing this because every time I try to loosen either strap, it becomes completely loose and I have to re-ratchet.


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## Leo (Nov 24, 2009)

In case you want proof:

With new replacement inner toe ladders:








Stock ladders:








Adjusted:








2011 Burton Restricted Hails 9.5 U.S. with shrinkage tech bringing the overall profile of the boot down to 8.5


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## Leo (Nov 24, 2009)

crazyface said:


> Union ratchets, in my experience are better than Rome ratchets in every way possible. The ladders ratchet in and out extremely smoothly on my forces while my toe ratchet on my bosses gets stuck almost every run. Riding in spring conditions I have ice or slush get on my Rome ladders and they would not ratchet without my getting the slush off, never had a problem in 3 seasons with my Forces. Strap too tight on the lift? With my forces, I can safely loosen any of my straps one or two "teeth" without worrying about my strap coming completely off. With Romes, there is no way I would dream of doing this because every time I try to loosen either strap, it becomes completely loose and I have to re-ratchet.


Hey, I'm not knocking you for your love of the Force. I am knocking you for your lack of time spent properly adjusting the Boss bindings then spewing how they don't fit properly.

Union Force has absolute crap toe straps and toe ratchets. The ankle ratchet is actually near perfect. Of course, I'm going off the new and "improved" 2012 version. If that was supposed to be a redesigned "improvement" I don't want to imagine how crappy the previous years are. 

Get Union bindings, but I highly suggest you Frankenstein the toe strap with another brand's. Ride's ThinGrip toe strap is a popular choice amongst Union Frankensteiners.

Rome's ratchets are far from perfect, but I rather deal with that plus their awesome warranty department than have to deal with a very poorly designed toe strap.

2012 Union Force on 2008 Burton TWC boots high profile size 10 U.S. - Notice the bottom lip of the toe strap not sitting on my boot. Only the top part makes contact.


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## bellaisa (Mar 4, 2011)

I was more worried about the 9.5 not fitting in a S/M sizing, not the other way around, lol. I apologize about the confusion. It's pretty clear that I'll just order a new pair in a L/XL. 

Any sites you recommend me getting them from?


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## crazyface (Mar 1, 2008)

Leo said:


> Hey, I'm not knocking you for your love of the Force. I am knocking you for your lack of time spent properly adjusting the Boss bindings then spewing how they don't fit properly.


Uh, not this again. My Rome 390 Bosses S/M fit my boot. This may be hard for some people to believe, but Rome has a flaw in their design and the toe strap puts pressure on my toes and does not un-ratchet smoothly at all. I have put time into adjusting my Bosses and have tinkering with all of the settings. I have found my current settings to be the best, but there are still flaws.

I have also spent time adjusting my forces and have found the best possible adjustment for them. This adjustment that I have found is better in every way, aside from the canted footbeds, than the fit of my Bosses. 

Are forces better bindings? I don't know, that isn't for me to say. But for people with boots sized close to mine, I have to suggest Unions so they won't have to deal with deciding between 2 sizes that kind of fit and will get more comfort out of their bindings. The new toe straps look like shit, so try to buy an older pair of forces in the buy/sell forum or frankenstein a different toe strap on.


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## Leo (Nov 24, 2009)

That's my whole point Mr. Crazyface... you spent time adjusting S/M. You should have done the same for the L/XL. Be honest, you didn't take a tool to the L/XL bindings in the shop did you?

Anyway, there are plenty of us with smaller boot sizes than you with low profile designs Burton and non Burton rocking L/XL Boss. 

There was another rider who was about to sell his L/XL Targas for his size 10ish boots until I convinced him to adjust it some more. Now he loves them.

All this evidenced stacked against you. Sorry. Fit isn't an issue. The real issue for you is the ratchets. That I won't argue as I've had problems with it as well. A new set of ratchets are on its way to me though thanks to the warranty department. They already sent me new ladders and I recognize them from their 2012 line of bindings. The lock into place much better.

By the way, I have no used my Bosses in multiple locations in multiple conditions on multiple boards. They fit fine.


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## snowjab (Dec 22, 2010)

The toe straps are defintely better around the end then the top. There is alot of adjusting but once its done theyre great bindings. I own both the boss and targas, I have boss on my SL and looking for a raptor so i can mount the targas.


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## PortedBuckle (Jan 30, 2011)

I feel like I have enough experience on the snow to make a post regarding the 2011 390's... 

At first I couldn't have been happier. In the house, they fit great, and the adjustments, while a pain, did get the fit well with my Size 8 Imperials. After a few trips to the mountains, I am now regretting my decision to give Rome a shot. While they may have excellent customer service, chipping of the paint, the highback adjustments coming loose, the straps releasing while riding, etc., the quality is just not there. I also hate the ratchet design and miss my cartels quite a bit. I haven't even really been abusing the bindings much either as I've been mainly teaching the girlfriend to ride this season. I've found the weird bracket mounting into the mounting disc and then the board is cumbersome, and the least they could have done is provide a longer bolt so that you don't have to work to get the padding on the bottom of the binding compressed, just so the other bolts will bolt in far enough. Also, when adjusting the ankle wrap metal thing, it was almost impossible to get the hardware aligned... Probably a flaw in manufacturing, but still, it shouldn't have been this difficult. The toe strap geometry just isn't right either, and because the strap flops around so much when undone, I have tripped myself in the lift line by stepping on it (I now make sure the toe strap on my rear binding is strapped into the ladder). 

I'll probably ride these the remainder of the season, but will sell them off at the end for cheap. I am glad I got a killer deal on these because I'd be much more upset if I paid retail for a product with many flaws. I'm going back to Cartels next year and would advise to stay away from these things.


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## Leo (Nov 24, 2009)

Thanks for the review, but sadly, none of us are talking about 2010 390s. You'll realize that big changes have been made to the 2011 versions.

As for your screw concerns, if they were to provide longer screws, you'd actually end up having too much screw. You could even end up damaging the board. It's the correct length and takes a little elbow grease the first few times because the padding will eventually compress. This is a good thing as the padding under the disc provides dampening.

I don't know what weird mountain bracket on top of the plate you speak of. The 2011 versions don't have that. The only thing that goes on top of the base of the binding is a dampening footbed. The Boss version comes with canted footbeds that you can use.

Toe straps flop around on any binding except for quick entry ones like Flows or Contrabands. Either kick the toe strap out of the way or stop skating toe side. Or you could simply skate a little further away from your toe edge.

No arguments on ratchets as I'm not a fan either. I've even had mine release a couple of times. I have since been able to solve the problem by making sure I give the release tab a slap in the lock position to make sure that it's not even remotely loose. I rode through Michigan ice, and jibbed logs and rode through tight trees. Bindings have not released since discovering my slap technique.

Paint chipping... this shouldn't be relevant. Yea, it's a cheap paint process and it chips easily. Big deal. Just looks. Rome will happily replace any of your parts even the ones that have nothing but paint chipping.

Again, you are talking about 2010 versions anyway. None of us here are.


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## PortedBuckle (Jan 30, 2011)

Sorry. I have the 2010/2011 Season bindings... So this year's model.


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## PortedBuckle (Jan 30, 2011)

The hoop thing I was referring to is the adjustment that rome says you should make versus moving the binding toward either edge. I guess the heel cup? I don't know what they call it, but it was a pain. 

I am not saying, I hate the bindings for the paint chips, I think they don't look bad since I have the collage color, but If you put a product out there that chips after a run or two, something is wrong, and it should be at least commented on. 

I just had very high hopes for these. I will say the ankle strap is the comfiest I have ridden.


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## Leo (Nov 24, 2009)

So what weird mounting bracket are you talking about? The footbeds? Nothing weird about them to me. Just snap them in and screw the middle. 1,2,3... done!

Since you have the 2011, take advantage of their warranty. Tell them you need new ladders and new ratchets because you are having release issues. They sent me new ladders and they fit much better. I believe they are the ladders from their 2012 bindings which is a good thing. I have yet to see what the buckles look like though.

Give it a go. Even ask for new highbacks if you really can't live with the chipping.

Edit: Rome admitted to faulty paint issues. They even came on these forums acknowledging it and promised to send out better highbacks to anyone having chipping issues.

Also, I won't deny the sheer amount of time and effort it takes to dial these suckers in. I rather have to do that then get bindings that don't offer adjustability. I'm used to this stuff though as I've been a Flow user for 6 years. And any Flow user will tell you that setting those up used to suck ass.

To each his own. I dislike Burton bindings. Great ratchets, horrible toe caps. Toe caps always pop off on me with those. Worst part is, I wear Burton boots.


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## PortedBuckle (Jan 30, 2011)

Ah, nah, the foot beds are fine. its the u shaped bracket that the straps and ladders mount into and the highback mounts onto. You move it forward and back to center the boot. The holes didn't line up in the setting I needed. It took a lot of elbow grease. 

Thanks for not turning this into a flame session. I just personally don't like the product I ended up with, despite the great comfort.


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## Leo (Nov 24, 2009)

Why would I flame you? LoL. The only reason I called out crazyface is because of his inconsistent story and how he is taking his thoughts on the wrong sized binding into threads where others are considering these bindings.

You on the other hand, are having a genuine issue with the binding design even though the size and fit is correct. Now I'm trying to help you figure things out.

I kind of understand what you are talking about now. Are you moving the highback forward/backward to center your stance?

You should be unscrewing the bottom most screws in the heel hoop and loosening the two screws under the toe side of the binding and adjusting the fit from there.

I'm guessing you have the S/M size? I don't know the numbers for that size, but if you look above the three sets of holes on the inside of the heel hoop, you will see numbers. For example, I have mine screwed into the ones that read, "9/10.5". This means that set of holes are for boot sizes 9-10.5. Do you have yours set to the correct boot size?


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## PortedBuckle (Jan 30, 2011)

Yes. The heel hoop is what I am talking about. I have it all setup now, but the first night with the bindings was miserable trying to get the hoop to slide backward enough so that the bolt would align with the hole. After that I had no issues, and it may not even be an issue on the larger sizes, but the S/M had the issue. It was just one of the two holes per binding too. The system worked, but it wasn't easy, and in all truth, I'd prefer to just move the bindings back by choosing different holes on a mounting disc. 

If they could give me burton ratchets, better paint quality, and fix their fitment issue of the heel hoop, (maybe tighten up the highback tool free adjustment), I'd say they are great. Oh, and I think my 8 boot, even with shrinkage tech is too big for the toe capstraps.


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## randyfloyd (Feb 9, 2011)

*Union Force*

Rode for 2 days on new rome 390 boss on 153 ns evo. Stupid f**king bindings ruined the end of season trip. I've been riding 24 years and fell more this weekend then the past 10 years...every time I wondered why I fell, I looked down to see an unstrapped binding.
Rome is sending a new buckle, hopefully a new ladder strap also...

I have a pair of Union Force on my NS premier f1, and never had a problem. Have over 100 days of riding with no problems.


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## bellaisa (Mar 4, 2011)

yea, ive decided to go with the yellow forces. anyone know what's the largest setting for the heel loop? Tried to move it out a bit more but it won't budge. here's a pic.


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## idshred (Jun 20, 2010)

bellaisa said:


> yea, ive decided to go with the yellow forces. anyone know what's the largest setting for the heel loop? Tried to move it out a bit more but it won't budge. here's a pic.


the heelcup adjusts out to '2' 

Did you take both screws out that allow the heelcup to adjust out? There is the screw that holds the strap/highback/heelcup as well as the other screw just below the trim piece on the baseplate, it needs to be taken out as well. Hopefully you didn't get a pair that has extra loc-tight on the screws that made them super hard to get out. If ya did all that and it was still stuck, get something like a rubber mallet and tap it, after a couple of adjustments it will be much easier to move.


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## Leo (Nov 24, 2009)

randyfloyd said:


> Rode for 2 days on new rome 390 boss on 153 ns evo. Stupid f**king bindings ruined the end of season trip. I've been riding 24 years and fell more this weekend then the past 10 years...every time I wondered why I fell, I looked down to see an unstrapped binding.
> Rome is sending a new buckle, hopefully a new ladder strap also...
> 
> I have a pair of Union Force on my NS premier f1, and never had a problem. Have over 100 days of riding with no problems.


The replacement buckles are better. They are unpainted though and the release tab has no rubber. However, the release tab isn't skinny and doesn't protrude way out like the stock ones. It locks down tighter too. See how you like the Boss after these replacements. 

Easy solution to those looking to get Bosses... Order the bindings then give Rome an immediate ring after receiving them. Ask for replacement buckles and ladders. Problem solved. Might start out as worse bindings than Unions, but end up being far better.

For those who are riding with stock ratchets on them, just make sure that you give the release tab a slap down to make sure it is in full locked position. I found that this completely solved my issues on the stock ratchets. The release tabs are so buttery, that they need to be fully down. Any bit of looseness causes them to release.

Bellaisa: Let us know how you like your Unions and what you think about the fit.


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## Smokehaus (Nov 2, 2010)

I personally love my 11' Forces but of course I have never strapped my feet into a set of 390's.


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## bellaisa (Mar 4, 2011)

i'm taking them out for a run next weekend in killington. hope the weather holds up.

but the M/L forces didn't fit my 2007 size 10 Burton Freestyle boots that well. I got a pair of 32 Lashed 9.5s coming today so hopefully they'll fit better.


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