# New bindings causing foot pain?



## Scalpelman (Dec 5, 2017)

Sounds like the bindings are cranked too tight. I like em tight too. Is it the front foot? If so, loosen it a bit while you’re on the lift to “recirculate” blood. 


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## RMx400 (Jun 27, 2018)

Scalpelman said:


> Sounds like the bindings are cranked too tight. I like em tight too. Is it the front foot? If so, loosen it a bit while you’re on the lift to “recirculate” blood.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


yeah well it happens to both feet but since the back foot gets unstrapped every end of the rub it gets time to breathe. Its honestly not that big of an issue and i was just wondering if eventually the more and more years i get in the feet get used to them? I watch alot of snowboarders and it seems that they all crank them down super tight with no issues at all. I know i cant be the only one experiencing this.


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

RMx400 said:


> You might already be assuming that its the boot but it isnt, ive checked. Even cranked down, the boot themselves give me no pain whatsoever when walking or hiking but whenever i strap in, by the end of the run especially when im doing aggressive toe side turns the foot pain starts to creep. I know its the binding bcus when i unstrap it seems that the blood flow returns.


Could be both... foot muscles not used to the strain, and overtightening of ankle strap. Don't crank. 



RMx400 said:


> So this might be a stupid question but im assuming most riders ride their bindings cranked for full support and control?


Nope. I fasten them tight, but don't crank them. Cranking is a sign for compensation of ill fitting boots... do you get heel lift? Are those boots rather soft?


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## chomps1211 (Mar 30, 2011)

Pain on aggressive toeside turns and cranked bindings sounds like heelslip to me. :shrug:

I had _horrible_ foot pain in the beginning. My boots & bindings were too big, (boots were too soft also) & I was cranking everything down trying to get toeside response out of my gear. It hurt a lot. Boots were comfy until I got strapped into them and riding. 

I fixed things enough with c-bars and insoles so I could stop _cranking_ down on everything and it helped. 

Didn't fully get better until I got better fitting, stiffer boots and stiffer bindings. 

So there's a few things to consider. :shrug:


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## RMx400 (Jun 27, 2018)

Yeah i would say i do have a bit of heel lift in my boot. I found that the boot itself fit really well in the store but being new to buying gear didnt consider the process of packing out. After heat molding and a few days of riding, i found that i can wiggle my toes quiet a bit in certain positions there was probably a fingers width of space from my toe to the tip of the boot. Sucks cus the boots were brand new 2019 and i got them with a deal so no returning... Would my best bet be just buying more fitting boots? Btw these are sz 8.5 Vans Auras on size medium Union forces.


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## RMx400 (Jun 27, 2018)

neni said:


> Nope. I fasten them tight, but don't crank them. Cranking is a sign for compensation of ill fitting boots... do you get heel lift? Are those boots rather soft?


By fastening tight do you mean you fasten until the ratchets cant go any further? Whats your basis for “tight”? For me I usually fasten them until they cant go anymore but with normal pressure not aggressive pressure.


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## theduke (Jan 11, 2019)

maybe you're over tightening the binding? Are you sure the straps are centered?


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

RMx400 said:


> By fastening tight do you mean you fasten *until the ratchets cant go any further*? Whats your basis for “tight”? For me I usually fasten them until they cant go anymore but with normal pressure not aggressive pressure.


Well, this depends on the force you apply . After you fasten tight (= fasten until ratches cant go further under reasonable force) one could still crank further putting more force on ratchets to squeeze out more clicks. 

However, no matter how much you crank, the ankle strap cannot compensate for an ill fitting boot with heel lift. Thus, fix the heel lift first.


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## RMx400 (Jun 27, 2018)

neni said:


> RMx400 said:
> 
> 
> > By fastening tight do you mean you fasten *until the ratchets cant go any further*? Whats your basis for “tight”? For me I usually fasten them until they cant go anymore but with normal pressure not aggressive pressure.
> ...


Would fixing heel lift fix the issue of the foot pain caused by the binding? If so, can you explain to me how and why? just trying to wrap my head around it..


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## speedjason (May 2, 2013)

RMx400 said:


> Would fixing heel lift fix the issue of the foot pain caused by the binding? If so, can you explain to me how and why? just trying to wrap my head around it..


When your heels are secure, you are exerting force though your heel.
When you have heel lift, you are forcing the top of your feet to exert the force hence pinching stuff.
Do you get the same cramp if just strapped in but not riding? Just standing there.


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## zc1 (Feb 20, 2017)

RMx400 said:


> Hey guys so I recently got new bindings, 2019 Union Forces paired with some Vans pro auras (dual boa) and have noticed that while riding, i get that infamous mid foot pain that feels like a cramp. Btw im on my 2nd year of riding and ive got a total of 15 days riding between both years so far. Could it possibly be just my foot getting used to the sport and the increase of pressure/stress as my skill advances?
> 
> You might already be assuming that its the boot but it isnt, ive checked. Even cranked down, the boot themselves give me no pain whatsoever when walking or hiking but whenever i strap in, by the end of the run especially when im doing aggressive toe side turns the foot pain starts to creep. I know its the binding bcus when i unstrap it seems that the blood flow returns.
> 
> So this might be a stupid question but im assuming most riders ride their bindings cranked for full support and control? Would it be safe to not crank them down anymore on the bindings? Im honestly just thinking about safety whether its okay to strap the bindings in looser and if anyone else has this issue and what they do/did to alleviate pain? Any solutions that wont compromise control and support? Thanks guys!


I had the same issue with Union Force bindings (2017). No other binding that I tried at that time (Union Contact, Rome Katana, Burton Cartel/Genesis, Rome Targa) gave me that problem, nor has any other binding since. I ended up selling the Forces. Some binding/boot/foot combinations just don't work.


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## Seppuccu (Dec 4, 2012)

Interesting. I just posted something similar in a new thread, but this made me realise that I experienced the worst foot pain with...a pair of Union Force bindings.

Do you by any chance have a high instep? I know @Nivek has mentioned he can get problems with some bindings due to his high insteps, so he prefers bindings where you can adjust the ankle strap into a higher position, such as Burton Malavitas/Cartels, Rome Katanas, and whatnot.

Either way, your boots are definitely too big so you need to fix that first, like this:

Find boots the right size with no pressure points
Get custom fitted insoles
Heat mold said boots

If it's of any comfort I've tested around 40 different models, and owned 4 different pairs. That's a lot of boots for a total of 83 days of riding. Still not satisfied, still looking for a better boot.


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## Seppuccu (Dec 4, 2012)

Also: what kind of foot pain do you experience?


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## RMx400 (Jun 27, 2018)

Seppuccu said:


> Also: what kind of foot pain do you experience?


its the type of pain thats similiar to like muscle cramping, often causing numbing in the toes, i can get over the numbness but the cramping feel literally makes me have to stop mid run and recover. its like squeezing the foot pain. I kind of regret getting the forces, kind wish i went for something like Stratas which have the mold injected type of ankle straps. Those seem so much more comfortable idk. The pain surely doesnt come from the boot though because i can literally walk aroind the mountain and hike without pain. Only comes from when i ride, but idk if the sizing/lack of solid heel hold can be affecting the foot pain.


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## RMx400 (Jun 27, 2018)

I kind of want to sell my forces and get katanas cus i feel like the adjustment of the ankle strap can help me move the pressure from mid foot to somewhere higher up the ankle. I saw a post here not too long ago talking about how the anatomy of the foot can have prominent veins right on upper midfoot where traditional ankle straps can impinge. His solution was to cutting out some of the innerboot to give space but i dont really wanna cut up my boots.


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## chomps1211 (Mar 30, 2011)

RMx400 said:


> I kind of want to sell my forces and get katanas cus i feel like the adjustment of the ankle strap can help me move the pressure from mid foot to somewhere higher up the ankle. I saw a post here not too long ago talking about how the anatomy of the foot can have prominent veins right on upper midfoot where traditional ankle straps can impinge. His solution was to cutting out some of the innerboot to give space but i dont really wanna cut up my boots.




Iir,.. there were some other options suggested to give similar results that didn't require liner surgery. :shrug:

I have the Katanas!! Being able to adjust the strap position to higher up on my ankle was a Godsend. It pretty much eliminated the remainder of my instep related foot pain issues. 
Not to mention made the bindings more responsive, which was a bonus! 

My older Cartels didn't until I replaced the OEM padded straps with the Genesis type hammocks. Now their pretty good! (...not Katana great, but good!) 
:hairy:


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## Seppuccu (Dec 4, 2012)

Thanks.



RMx400 said:


> The pain surely doesnt come from the boot though because i can literally walk aroind the mountain and hike without pain.


Well, yes - but mostly no. Whether you have foot pain when you walk around the mountain is in fact completely irrelevant, since you are supposed to ride in your boots strapped into your bindings. They form a whole. If you have one full finger or space in front of your toes the boots are too big. Period. This will cause progressively worse problems as you progress in your riding. It just happens to be so that the problem is worse due to the Forces.

My qualified guess is that you're an 8 or even an 7.5. If that is the case, you might even go down to bindings size Small, depending on the binding model and the bulkiness of the boot, with correct boots.


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## RMx400 (Jun 27, 2018)

Seppuccu said:


> Thanks.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


yeah i would say im an 8 aswell. If you only had money to adjust/replace one, which would it be? boot or binding? Curious on how to approach this issue...


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## kriegs13 (Nov 28, 2016)

RMx400 said:


> yeah i would say im an 8 aswell. If you only had money to adjust/replace one, which would it be? boot or binding? Curious on how to approach this issue...


boot. its not even a contest. 

the forces will be fine if you downsize your boot. im 8.5 and while the heel cup is all the way in, i have plenty of strap notches to downsize if needed. get more days on them in the correct size boot and if they dont work. sell or trade them and get something new. if yours are an older model, make sure you keep an eye on keeping your straps tightened at the start of every day.

just make sure youre getting the correct size boot. its the most important.


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## Seppuccu (Dec 4, 2012)

RMx400 said:


> yeah i would say im an 8 aswell. If you only had money to adjust/replace one, which would it be? boot or binding? Curious on how to approach this issue...


Boots. No discussion about it. The boots are your most important piece of gear.


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## Scalpelman (Dec 5, 2017)

It is interesting that so many of us have issues with foot pain. Seems to be unique to snowboarding. So many variables...improperly fitting boots, bindings not set up right, angles, forward lean, stance width. It’s a very complex equation. Too bad the gear seller’s knowledge is just as variable.


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## kriegs13 (Nov 28, 2016)

Scalpelman said:


> It is interesting that so many of us have issues with foot pain. Seems to be unique to snowboarding. So many variables...improperly fitting boots, bindings not set up right, angles, forward lean, stance width. It’s a very complex equation. Too bad the gear seller’s knowledge is just as variable.




It’s usually just the boots. 


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## cliffjumper68 (Nov 30, 2018)

RMx400 said:


> Would fixing heel lift fix the issue of the foot pain caused by the binding? If so, can you explain to me how and why? just trying to wrap my head around it..


Better fitting boots have less heal lift so you feel more locked in and don't have to crank your strap so much to feel secure. I get some pain after the first run as my foot stretches (along bottom mid foot) a few minutes after first run its gone for the day. If its towards the top of mid foot probably too tight on the strap. Try a run with the strap snug but not cranked and see the difference. I find I have better feel and control as I use more toe and heel (using bottom of foot) initiation rather than leveraging ankle strap and backs with a less cranked strap but mileage may vary.


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## SlvrDragon50 (Mar 25, 2017)

Did you have pain in other bindings?

I would lean towards boot esp if you already know you have heel lift. Getting a boot with minimal heel lift makes a world of difference, way more confident when you're riding too knowing your foot is locked in place. You won't have to crank down the bindings as much either.


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## Magikarps (Sep 27, 2018)

RMx400 said:


> Hey guys so I recently got new bindings, 2019 Union Forces paired with some Vans pro auras (dual boa) and have noticed that while riding, i get that infamous mid foot pain that feels like a cramp. Btw im on my 2nd year of riding and ive got a total of 15 days riding between both years so far. Could it possibly be just my foot getting used to the sport and the increase of pressure/stress as my skill advances?
> 
> You might already be assuming that its the boot but it isnt, ive checked. Even cranked down, the boot themselves give me no pain whatsoever when walking or hiking but whenever i strap in, by the end of the run especially when im doing aggressive toe side turns the foot pain starts to creep. I know its the binding bcus when i unstrap it seems that the blood flow returns.
> 
> So this might be a stupid question but im assuming most riders ride their bindings cranked for full support and control? Would it be safe to not crank them down anymore on the bindings? Im honestly just thinking about safety whether its okay to strap the bindings in looser and if anyone else has this issue and what they do/did to alleviate pain? Any solutions that wont compromise control and support? Thanks guys!


Couple options u can do.most shops offer a heat mold of the boot to shape more to ur foot. Takes 20 mins. After market soles are amazing I ride a pair of kush Nicolas Muller never been comfier in my boot

As for bindings could loosen the straps on the slider and use the ratchet a little more. The force u can slide the heel cup back which will provide more space in the binding for the strap to adjust. 

Force is a stiff binding my dude. Could just be working your feet harder then ur previous bindings ?


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## speedjason (May 2, 2013)

RMx400 said:


> yeah i would say im an 8 aswell. If you only had money to adjust/replace one, which would it be? boot or binding? Curious on how to approach this issue...


Given my experience with Union Force, it's your boots.
You are cranking your bindings down too hard to compensate for the looseness of the boots.
Also a too loose boot can deform instead of evenly distribute force around your feet.


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