# Advice on teaching my 2.5 y.o. Daughter to ride (peep the videos!!)



## marcdeo (Aug 8, 2011)

Hoping to get a conversation on getting young kids into riding (I realize as I type this perhaps i should have done a search first.....)

So my daughter will be 3 in January and this year my wife and I want to get her onto skiis/snowboard. The sooner she learns to shred the sooner we can all take family vacations together and REALLY shred the winter, lol. (I board, the wife skiis)

I have always assumed that kids should start on skiis (Yes I know how wrong i am), In fact the more I look at young kids on boards the more I realize that due to their low center of gravity and the width of even the small boards, kids are QUITE stable. 

Anyhow, I was wondering what some of your personal experiences were either from your childhood, or as parents etc....

check out these kids......

I really like the extent to which the parents thought out the training levels in the first video....(he even created a training board out of an old 164, making the tip super long to put the child on, and then a harness on the kid with a handle to hold him.... so smart)


Baby snowboarder Emile 22 month - YouTube


Snowboard Girl 1 year old - YouTube


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## david_z (Dec 14, 2009)

my daughter is too young to think about this yet (only 6mo old) but in a few more years we will be putting her on some sort of shred stick whether its skis or a board I'm not sure yet. I think the "skis first" is probably changing with the times, as more people snowboard there are a lot more people who know it and know how to teach it to younger kids. although skiing seems somewhat more intuitive, there are plenty of ways for an uncoordinated kiddo to screw it up on skis (crossing tips, wobbly, etc.) that wouldn't happen on a board and vice versa.

Personally, as much as I'd like to start her sooner rather than later, I think my rule will be: she can't go on the hill until she stops shitting her pants (and preferably until she knows how to wipe her own ass). Keeping your kids clean is enough of a hassle without the added trouble of boots and snowpants and baselayers getting in the way.


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## IdahoFreshies (Jul 9, 2011)

david_z said:


> Personally, as much as I'd like to start her sooner rather than later, I think my rule will be: she can't go on the hill until she stops shitting her pants (and preferably until she knows how to wipe her own ass). Keeping your kids clean is enough of a hassle without the added trouble of boots and snowpants and baselayers getting in the way.


HAHAHAHAHA thats awesome! Best criteria for the age to start a kid off on the hill, when they can go take care or them selves in the bathroom.


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## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

david_z said:


> my daughter is too young to think about this yet (only 6mo old) but in a few more years we will be putting her on some sort of shred stick whether its skis or a board I'm not sure yet. I think the "skis first" is probably changing with the times, as more people snowboard there are a lot more people who know it and know how to teach it to younger kids. although skiing seems somewhat more intuitive, there are plenty of ways for an uncoordinated kiddo to screw it up on skis (crossing tips, wobbly, etc.) that wouldn't happen on a board and vice versa.
> 
> Personally, as much as I'd like to start her sooner rather than later, I think my rule will be: she can't go on the hill until she stops shitting her pants (and preferably until she knows how to wipe her own ass). Keeping your kids clean is enough of a hassle without the added trouble of boots and snowpants and baselayers getting in the way.


U need a trap-door onesy to do the michael jackson thing off the chairlift...


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## almostheaven (Sep 30, 2012)

I am an instructor and the mtn where I work just started offering snowboard lessons for 4-6 year olds. In my experiences with these lessons, there are a few things to take into consideration. First, is overall coordination. Once you strap these kids in there balance is usually pretty good allowing them to do fine while going straight. However, the more complex muscle movements needed to twist/tilt the board to make it turn are very difficult for most children at this age. 

The other things to take into consideration are attention span and energy levels. Both influence their ability to learn and determine how much fun they are having.

So, I think its a great idea to get your kids out there at an early age just dont expect them to be ripping down the mountain at the age of 3 or 4.

However, you do get the occasional 3/4/5 year olds that can pick up skiing and can advance to green and maybe even blue runs.


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## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

To op, my skier bud put all 4 of his kids in boots and on skis almost as soon as they could walk...he let them play in the basement/garage and in the yard with ski boots on and skis on. Then on the hill at age 2-3 they had the boot thing down, could walk around, side-step and skier step-turn things, no real balance issues except for moving, i.e., pizza, fries....often the first day they were doing the bunny hill, lifts and on the greens on day one....needless to say all of them can rip. There are alot of toddlers that are in backpacks, front packs, kid binders mounted between dad's on the board...and they are used to sensation of riding or skiing...mind you it is pretty mellow...usually...another friend packs his infant and does a fair job of ripping around...but his wife said no backflips with the kid.


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## herzogone (Oct 19, 2010)

almostheaven said:


> I am an instructor and the mtn where I work just started offering snowboard lessons for 4-6 year olds. In my experiences with these lessons, there are a few things to take into consideration. First, is overall coordination. Once you strap these kids in there balance is usually pretty good allowing them to do fine while going straight. However, the more complex muscle movements needed to twist/tilt the board to make it turn are very difficult for most children at this age.
> 
> The other things to take into consideration are attention span and energy levels. Both influence their ability to learn and determine how much fun they are having.
> 
> ...


I've been working on getting my two younger boys (ages 4 and 6) riding, and my experience has been right in line with what you're saying. My 4-year-old seems more enthusiastic than his brother, even though he's less coordinated. He did lessons a few times last season at our local hill (and a couple the year before) and loved it. He can't wait to go more this season. The 6-year-old did a couple lessons, but said he prefers to have me teach him (really, I think he just likes the attention and trying things himself). They can both go straight and and sideslip heelside to stop. The 6-year old can do shaky heelside turns and understands the concept of toeside turns, but has trouble executing them while in motion. Also, they seem to have little leg dominance at their ages, so switch is nearly effortless. I will say their progress has been much slower than my oldest son, who started at age 8 (he's now 11). He and I both took lessons together, and he progressed as quickly as I did (much quicker when it came to jumps and grabs). Then again, my younger ones have really only gone about 5 or 6 times total so far, and you can undoubtedly get them progressing sooner if they go often, assuming they have the interest.

On the other hand, this kid didn't have much trouble at age 3, though he's no doubt the exception, and I'm guessing he got plenty of days on the snow:


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## IdahoFreshies (Jul 9, 2011)

herzogone said:


> I've been working on getting my two younger boys (ages 4 and 6) riding, and my experience has been right in line with what you're saying. My 4-year-old seems more enthusiastic than his brother, even though he's less coordinated. He did lessons a few times last season at our local hill (and a couple the year before) and loved it. He can't wait to go more this season. The 6-year-old did a couple lessons, but said he prefers to have me teach him (really, I think he just likes the attention and trying things himself). They can both go straight and and sideslip heelside to stop. The 6-year old can do shaky heelside turns and understands the concept of toeside turns, but has trouble executing them while in motion. Also, they seem to have little leg dominance at their ages, so switch is nearly effortless. I will say their progress has been much slower than my oldest son, who started at age 8 (he's now 11). He and I both took lessons together, and he progressed as quickly as I did (much quicker when it came to jumps and grabs). Then again, my younger ones have really only gone about 5 or 6 times total so far, and you can undoubtedly get them progressing sooner if they go often, assuming they have the interest.
> 
> On the other hand, this kid didn't have much trouble at age 3, though he's no doubt the exception, and I'm guessing he got plenty of days on the snow:


Mother of god that kid shreds Thats amazing! It's like he has the snowboard mind of a 17 year old in a 3 year olds body.


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## East§ide (Mar 14, 2011)

its amazing how well that kid rides..but i do notice from watching the video that based solely on the size of the bindings and such and his height, it looks like his knees are always perfectly bent naturally while riding. when he lands, hes always got his knees in perfect position because of his size and center of gravity. it has to make learning so much easier.


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## poutanen (Dec 22, 2011)

I started at 6 on skis. Like almost every Canadian kid I was put in hockey very young and hated it. Number one I'm not a people person so team sports suck. Number two who wants to get up at 6:00 on a Saturday morning to go play hockey? Not me when I was 5, that's who (not)!

So my dad said "You either ski or you play hockey"... And 26 years later my dad and I still meet up on the hill and go skiing/boarding together!

I switched from two planks to one in grade 6 when my school offered a course. One or two days of sore knees and ass and I was hooked. Wish I had started on a board earlier but in 1986 it was still almost non-existant in southern Ontario! 

I've seen little tiny kids having a ball on a board. I say if they're willing, start them young!

+1 to starting on a board instead of skis. Can't stand the pizza/snow plow pylons all over the hill heading straight down. A snowboard forces you to learn to turn, or you'll end up heelsliding all day. Kids love speed usually so they'll stop heelsliding quicker than an adult will.


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## k4zn4 (Sep 18, 2012)

This is my friends kid, he was 2 at the time this was filmed, and it was hes first season on a snowboard (although he was spending practically the entire season on the mountain). By the end of the season, he was doing boxes and light jumps, the kid is fantastic..

Izi My first - YouTube

This winter is gonna be the first for my older daughter (she just turned 4)


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## Saevus (Aug 2, 2012)

The only thing I'd really prepare her for is helping her understand that she will lose control, fall, and experience pain. At this stage, pain has a big impact on behavior. Although you have children that have no problem like the one herzogone showed, I'm sure you've also seen the Pizza Kid who definitely was not prepared and probably won't be skiing/snowboarding for a VERY long time. Best of luck, would love to have a son/daughter at 3 years old who can shred; Just need to get some money and find a woman worthy of procreation


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## snowklinger (Aug 30, 2011)

Saevus said:


> The only thing I'd really prepare her for is helping her understand that she will lose control, fall, and experience pain. At this stage, pain has a big impact on behavior. Although you have children that have no problem like the one herzogone showed, I'm sure you've also seen the Pizza Kid who definitely was not prepared and probably won't be skiing/snowboarding for a VERY long time. Best of luck, would love to have a son/daughter at 3 years old who can shred; Just need to get some money and find a woman worthy of procreation


I was expecting something interesting from that Pizza Kid video. Its some little kid crashing on skis and then crying like a little kid. :thumbsdown:

You don't need to condition kids for pain, they don't even feel it after like 30 seconds. I need conditioning for pain, ffs!

Kid's personalities are gonna dictate their on-snow attitude at very young ages. They are either gonna attack it, or not.


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## Saevus (Aug 2, 2012)

snowklinger said:


> I was expecting something interesting from that Pizza Kid video. Its some little kid crashing on skis and then crying like a little kid. :thumbsdown:
> 
> You don't need to condition kids for pain, they don't even feel it after like 30 seconds. I need conditioning for pain, ffs!
> 
> Kid's personalities are gonna dictate their on-snow attitude at very young ages. They are either gonna attack it, or not.


To say kids even have a personality at that age is kind of a stretch, don't you think? Granted, not every kid is going to have the same motivation when it comes to a task, but at the age if you can't help them interpret different forms of pain, they will just associate the task as harmful to themselves. I'm sure you don't remember the first time you touched the stove (or something really hot), and probably even forgot about it after it healed, but from then on you knew not to repeat that behavior. At that age, she will only be able to comprehend basic stimuli (happiness, pain, fear, sadness) to build experience in this world until she develops abstract thought/introspection.


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## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

Saevus said:


> To say kids even have a personality at that age is kind of a stretch, don't you think? Granted, not every kid is going to have the same motivation when it comes to a task, but at the age if you can't help them interpret different forms of pain, they will just associate the task as harmful to themselves. I'm sure you don't remember the first time you touched the stove (or something really hot), and probably even forgot about it after it healed, but from then on you knew not to repeat that behavior. At that age, she will only be able to comprehend basic stimuli (happiness, pain, fear, sadness) to build experience in this world until she develops abstract thought/introspection.


Do you have kids? All three of mine had personalities within months, oldest one is a weenie, second is a dood and third is a frickin bulldog and those core personality has been true to this day. As for pain its often easily forgotten (you can remember the experience but not the actual pain) and is a learned response or its the interpertation of the pain...like "pain is weakness leaving the body"...early on with all I was...ehh its nothing...its far from your heart...ehh yer not going to die today. Oldest....a weenie that wines and rides but is not a rider, second ...come on mfker I can take it and third...it may hurt for a minute but I ain't letting go...and she is tougher than her two older brothers.


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## MikeIn248 (Dec 6, 2011)

I’m interested in these kinds of conversations because I have two young sons. Younger turns 4 in January. Older will be 6.5 then.

Older will switch to snowboard this season. He spent the last two winters (at 4.5 and 5.5) on skis (and the prior winter on toy cross-country skis in the back yard). I tortured myself about when to start him and whether to start on skis or snowboard. (I don’t really downhill ski -- I’ve only been about a dozen times. I do cross-country, though.) There were many factors in my decision-making. I’ll mention a few.

My main goal was to set him up for success and fun. Along those lines I bought into the physical-development arguments that say skiing first. (But I can see the point in the approach that says let the kid pick -- they’ll have the success/fun because they’re doing what they want.) (But I personally just hate to see people flail unsuccessfully at something and that was some of my fear with starting my kid on the board.)

I can appreciate what the OP is saying about stability. But the arguments against say that the *average* younger children don’t have the ankle strength and control to make the board do much of anything. (Plus their bodies are a lot less familiar with the toe-heel axis kind of balancing on the board compared to side-to-side balancing.) I’m just repeating the arguments here -- my sum experience is with exactly one kid, who hasn’t even switched to boarding yet.

I though older kid made great progress on skis. He spent 15+ days on the snow first season and 10+ the second. About half the days the first season were in full-day ski school. Second season he just had a couple hours of privates. (A teacher at the end of first season said kid was developing great and all he needed was miles under his belt.)

The decision to put him in ski school so much the first season came largely from a recognition of my own limitations and difficulties teaching close family members anything. (Plus the fact that I don’t actually ski.) Anyhow, it let me play more of the role of “let’s go explore” rather than “technique coach,” but I did insist that he ski his best, including a good bit of age-appropriate parallel skiing the second season. (I absolutely can’t stand watching small kids power wedging their way down a (steeper) hill on skis, whether they’re happy and in control or in terror and not.) 

Also, when I was scouting all this out a couple of years ago, it seemed there weren’t many resorts that were offering a full-day riding program for kids as young as 4 (some only offered it to that age on weekends). Most of them wanted to put off riding until 6 or 7. My impression is that this seems to be changing, even in the past 2 years.

Regarding shitting their pants -- most schools make it real clear that even though they’ll take kids as young as 3 for all-day group lessons, the kids all need to be potty trained. This wasn’t an issue for my older son, but it will be an issue with younger.

I could write a lot more about this, but it’s already turning into a book.

I’m excited about getting older son on the board this year. I’m thinking of doing a private lesson for him the first day or two, then a handful of full-day group lessons -- but not go overboard like his first year on skis.

Younger son looks like he’ll be more of a challenge. Frankly, I don’t think he’s ready for it this season, but my wife (who skis) wants to get back out on the slopes this year.


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## Saevus (Aug 2, 2012)

wrathfuldeity said:


> Do you have kids? All three of mine had personalities within months, oldest one is a weenie, second is a dood and third is a frickin bulldog and those core personality has been true to this day. As for pain its often easily forgotten (you can remember the experience but not the actual pain) and is a learned response or its the interpertation of the pain...like "pain is weakness leaving the body"...early on with all I was...ehh its nothing...its far from your heart...ehh yer not going to die today. Oldest....a weenie that wines and rides but is not a rider, second ...come on mfker I can take it and third...it may hurt for a minute but I ain't letting go...and she is tougher than her two older brothers.


You seem to have behavior and personality confused. Behavior is a response due to an internal/external stimulus while personality is the perception of oneself and everything else. Personality requires depth, built from experiences acquired during life. Behavior, knowledge, cultural, language, etc. affect personality at all times so to say a infant of only a couple months has a personality is ludicrous. At age 3, a child is beginning to develop personality. This is accomplished due to trying different behaviors and attempting interaction/communication with peers and older individuals. Although behavior can be an early indication of personality, one can easily manipulate an outgoing child (between ages 1 to 4) to a complete introvert by reinforcing certain behaviors. Instead of basing your argument off of an insignificant sample (3 children), do some research on cognitive and psychosocial development.

Mike brings up an interesting point. I would assume (<-keyword) skiing would be less physically demanding compared to snowboarding at her age, but I bet what is "naturally" comfortable also plays a part. At this time, I'd have her try both and see which one she picks up the quickest and prefers. Once she hits age 5+ she should have enough muscle development to seriously take on either. I'm still jealous every time I see kids tearing it up on snowboards; I could have added 10 more years to what I have now


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## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

Saevus said:


> You seem to have behavior and personality confused. Behavior is a response due to an internal/external stimulus while personality is the perception of oneself and everything else. Personality requires depth, built from experiences acquired during life. Behavior, knowledge, cultural, language, etc. affect personality at all times so to say a infant of only a couple months has a personality is ludicrous. At age 3, a child is beginning to develop personality. This is accomplished due to trying different behaviors and attempting interaction/communication with peers and older individuals. Although behavior can be an early indication of personality, one can easily manipulate an outgoing child (between ages 1 to 4) to a complete introvert by reinforcing certain behaviors. Instead of basing your argument off of an insignificant sample (3 children), do some research on cognitive and psychosocial development.


Sir you are correct but you have no kids...thus what is your experience beyond academia, experimental psych, and empiricism....have you ever spent time with infants/toddlers or even a dog or cat. By your line of thought the family pet has no personality and is just the sum of conditioning. And what about mothers that will tell you that infants do have personality. And yes I did purposefully manipulate my two younger kids cognitive perception of pain (not sensory perception) via perceptual set/perceptual expectancy. Btw you are using introvert in the popular sense and not the classical/clinical conceptualization. In all respect please go back in your Skinner air crib....or better yet....get out of the frickin thing...don't let school get in the way of your education.


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## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

Back on topic. Start them as young or old as you want, let them try both. Expose them to other kids that are skiing/riding. Kids learn by seeing, doing and playing. Playing and enjoying the snow is the key...in HI saw like 2 year olds surfing...on the board with mom/dad or standing up, dad pushing the board and kid falling and swimming. Just let them have fun and learn joys of playing in the snow.


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## marcdeo (Aug 8, 2011)

So guys, did you purchase the equiptment for your little tykes, or simply rent them?


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## MikeIn248 (Dec 6, 2011)

For me, purchase, no question. Like I mentioned upthread, I have two sons, 2.5 years apart. My general strategy will be to buy new stuff out of season and pass it down. (I also have a nephew 1-1/2 younger than my youngest -- don't know if he'll do snow sports, but bikes and other stuff will get passed down to him for sure.)

Skis. I bought new "last year's model" skis and bindings in the summer on discount ($200, I think. MSRP would've been $300+). Then in season I bought adjustable Roces boots ($100), which we got two seasons out of. Real rough math, but kid 1 got almost 30 days on the gear, making that roughly $10 a day. Say kid 2 uses the stuff for two years, also around 30 days, that makes $5 a day. (Right now I don't have issues with passing boots down from kid to kid.)

Snowboard. Similarly, last spring/summer when discounts started, I bought a new "last year's model" board for about $120. (Ride Lowrider, 90cm. Looks like 2013 model has MSRP of $180 this year.) I bought new Flow Micron bindings (previous year's model, XS) off of eBay for about $50. Boots I'll buy in season to make sure they fit, probably full price. Once I see how the kid does and how the boots work out, I'll watch next spring's sales and buy the next 2 sizes up of the same model of boot if discounts are good. Same plan for passing snowboard gear down to second kid as with skis.

I'm sure this beats rentals anywhere. At some point too I did some numbers on those "new gear each season" programs and didn't think they made sense for me at all, especially since I plan to pass down. I can see kids' needing new boots each season, but I'm hoping a given size board will last 2 seasons per kid. So given their age spread, I'm thinking they'll get about 4 years out of a board.

Plus there's never having to deal with a rentals area.


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## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

marcdeo said:


> So guys, did you purchase the equiptment for your little tykes, or simply rent them?


That's what ski swaps are for...I'm heading with the kids to a big one in a couple of minutes...fortunately they are old enough to find and buy their own shit and there is a strategy...who ever gets done first....go stand in the check out line


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## MGD81 (Mar 13, 2012)

marcdeo said:


> *The sooner she learns to shred the sooner we can all take family vacations together and REALLY shred the winter, lol. (I board, the wife skiis)*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


If this is your goal then start her on skis, no question.

If you watch most of those videos with kids under 4, none of them actually turn onto their toeside edge, basically they sideslip the whole mountain. Im not knocking it - as long as the kids having fun, but thats not snowboarding, its sliding the mountain on your heels. Until they turn, they are never more than a level 1, steeper terrain - don't even think about it. 

Put your kid on skis, there is actually a chance you get to ski with your kids for some of the holiday.

Managing parents expectations is normally the most difficult part of working at a ski school.


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