# 2014 Union Catalog is up!



## scotty100

24WERD said:


> 14_UNION
> 
> Travis Rice Bindings
> 
> Contact Pro /w new mini universal mini disc.
> 
> Filite Pro / old contact pro high backs


The factory looks interesting. Anyone know if this is more or less the same as the SL binding but now with canting?


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## Joe Coffee

Some sweet stuff there. I know what I am buying next season.


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## Extremo

scotty100 said:


> The factory looks interesting. Anyone know if this is more or less the same as the SL binding but now with canting?


The Factory is the same as this years SL, just with the Team highback and canting added. I'll be picking up a set of these for sure.


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## jdang307

Any canting on the Contact Pro? I know looks aren't everything but they'd look sweet on my board


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## 22140

As I've seen canting is only on the Factory


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## scotty100

Extremo said:


> The Factory is the same as this years SL, just with the Team highback and canting added. I'll be picking up a set of these for sure.


Looks like these would be a good match with a Never Summer Heritage.


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## kctahoe

Is it just me, or did they change the toe straps for next year?


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## Extremo

kctahoe said:


> Is it just me, or did they change the toe straps for next year?


It's hard to tell from the pictures. I know this year the Force toe strap had a little more curve than the Atlas toe strap.


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## 24WERD

the contact pro doesn't have carbon injected base anymore.

The force looks good.


Union should make canted footbeds for the new and old force as a package (1 , 2,3 degrees) and or just individual package sets. And charge like 20$ they will make a killing of additional cash to existing customer base.

If they don't come out with it, someone out there will. Or there is the put a strap underneath the footbed and get a bigger screw.


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## Nivek

I'll be the first "hater" to comment on the new line then.

The only thing I see that I wasn't fond of before that didn't change is the heel dampening section in the Atlas base. And that is more of a personal thing that I don't consider to necessarily be a "design flaw". There is a very simple fix for my issue with it, but still.

New toe ratchet, new toe strap, canting in at least 1 model as far as I can tell, heel dampening in the Force, the Flite Pro looks rad as shit...

Kudos Union. This could be a very good year for you. I would really like a chance to ride some.


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## 24WERD

The toe strap is a easy fix. Get a burton gettacap toe buckle and solve both problems the toe and the buckle.


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## Nivek

24WERD said:


> The toe strap is a easy fix. Get a burton gettacap toe buckle and solve both problems the toe and the buckle.


Why is this comment necessary?


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## rscott22

Looks like the site is down now? I can't see the catalog anymore :dunno:


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## Extremo

rscott22 said:


> Looks like the site is down now? I can't see the catalog anymore :dunno:


Nothing major, just a few upgrades. Canting on a higher end model being the most intriguing. Toe strap lever for those who were having a problem with it. New colorways, tweaks to a couple of high back designs. Still your standard Union craftsmanship.


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## rscott22

Extremo said:


> Nothing major, just a few upgrades. Canting on a higher end model being the most intriguing. Toe strap lever for those who were having a problem with it. New colorways, tweaks to a couple of high back designs. Still your standard Union craftsmanship.


canting is something I have been waiting for! Will the UNION Forces be getting canting or no?


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## UNION INHOUSE

*Union Catalog*

I asked them to take it down yesterday for a few reasons. 

For one, it is important for us to promote the product that can be found at your local snowboard shop right now. 

Secondly, we have some exciting things for next season that we would rather have people see in person. All new Force, all new Contact Pro, the new Factory binding, and improvement across the whole line. 

Third, we still believe in the idea that holding a catalog in your hand is better than an online, low resolution flip book. 

I don't mind of those guys put the book online in a couple months, but right now is just too soon. 

Hope you guys understand.


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## rscott22

UNION INHOUSE said:


> I asked them to take it down yesterday for a few reasons.
> 
> For one, it is important for us to promote the product that can be found at your local snowboard shop right now.
> 
> Secondly, we have some exciting things for next season that we would rather have people see in person. All new Force, all new Contact Pro, the new Factory binding, and improvement across the whole line.
> 
> Third, we still believe in the idea that holding a catalog in your hand is better than an online, low resolution flip book.
> 
> I don't mind of those guys put the book online in a couple months, but right now is just too soon.
> 
> Hope you guys understand.


I 100% understand. I will be getting new Bindings next year becasue this is my third year with my 2011 yellow forces and they have held up great, but time to upgrade! The whole reason I didnt by new bindings this year was because of canting and glad to see that next year will be having this!


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## Gdog42

So tell me, Extremo... what do you think of the new toe ratchet? (if you saw it) :laugh:


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## Extremo

Gdog42 said:


> So tell me, Extremo... what do you think of the new toe ratchet? (if you saw it) :laugh:


It's the same ratchet, just with a dummy lever added. 

Personally I'm not a fan of how it looks. The low profile of the binding is what appealed to me when Union first came out and I thought they did a good job redesigning the second generation lever that I'm riding now, in both aesthetics and function. 

Fortunately they're not on every model, and I have enough of them that I can swap them out on new bindings, not to mention you'll still be able to buy them on C3. I know a lot of people were asking for it so I understand why they added it. Ride had to go the same route for the same reason. 

Plus Snowolf brought up a good point. A lever provides a tether release point when you're in the backcountry. I don't ride backcountry so it doesn't really effect me, but to those who do, I'm sure it adds a much needed function to the binding.


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## Gdog42

Yeah, the ratchets haven't been a problem for me but now other people won't have any of their own problems with them.

BTW...



24WERD said:


> 14_UNION
> 
> Filite Pro / old contact pro high backs


That binding has actually been available this season, but only at The House Boardshop. I'm not sure in the color is the same though because I haven't next season's catalog.

http://www.the-house.com/un1flp46bg13zz-union-snowboard-bindings.html



















Personally, I don't like The House because of all the bad opinions I've heard of their customer service, their lame product overviews, and because they openly tell potential customers which employees they plan on firing. :WTF:


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## Extremo

Gdog42 said:


> Yeah, the ratchets haven't been a problem for me but now other people won't have any of their own problems with them.
> 
> BTW...
> 
> 
> 
> That binding has actually been available this season, but only at The House Boardshop. I'm not sure in the color is the same though because I haven't next season's catalog.
> 
> 
> Personally, I don't like The House because of all the bad opinions I've heard of their customer service, their lame product overviews, and because they openly tell potential customers which employees they plan on firing. :WTF:


I think he meant the contact pro highback.


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## Gdog42

Extremo said:


> I think he meant the contact pro highback.


Oh yeah, you're right he did say that. I overlooked the "pro" at the end of the post and thought he meant the old Contact highback.

He said "*old* contact pro high backs". Does next season's Contact Pro have a new highback? :icon_scratch:


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## Nivek

Kudos to the design team at Union. In my hands they seem to have fixed any of the issues I've had with them up to I think the Contact Pro. If memory serves ( it's been a long weekend) the Atlas, Factory, SL, and MC are still press and pull toe ratchets. The Factory looks pretty bomber, CANTED. The Contact Pro gets a mini disc and now its only something like 5% plastic touches the board. All the toe straps got overhauled and I really don't see an issue with that anymore. Not as good as making them all levered release, but the press and pulls have a different mechanism and should release easier. The Force has foam all the way to the board now.

These seem like good moves and I am optimistic for the product as a whole and hope I'm given the chance to get in some bindings.


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## Gdog42

I saw some of next season's Union bindings recently, and noticed that the toe strap looked like it had a slightly different shape. It looks more symmetrical.


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## Extremo

Gdog42 said:


> I saw some of next season's Union bindings recently, and noticed that the toe strap looked like it had a slightly different shape. It looks more symmetrical.


I noticed this too. It looks like it doesn't loop out in the front so much.


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## rscott22

Is there anyway we can look at the catalog now? Or does anyone have pictures of the bindings and info from SIA?


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## Nivek

rscott22 said:


> Is there anyway we can look at the catalog now? Or does anyone have pictures of the bindings and info from SIA?


I have the catalog but I'm not steppin on anyones toes just yet. What questions do you have?


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## rscott22

Nivek said:


> I have the catalog but I'm not steppin on anyones toes just yet. What questions do you have?


I wanted to know which bindingss will have canting. I have had my union forces for 3 years now and they have help up great! But there on there last leg and I was debating going to Burton because there toe strap and canting makes them much more fun to ride then my unions. 

Ryan,


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## Nivek

The Factory is the only binding getting canting from Union for 2014. I would like to say get the new Forces, but I havent ridden them to say how the changes effect the ride. The new 3D heelcup shaping and new heel section in the frame will change the way it rides.

As of 2013 I gotta say grab some Cartels over another pair of Forces. For me they rode better in every way.


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## jdang307

Nivek said:


> The Factory is the only binding getting canting from Union for 2014. I would like to say get the new Forces, but I havent ridden them to say how the changes effect the ride. The new 3D heelcup shaping and new heel section in the frame will change the way it rides.
> 
> As of 2013 I gotta say grab some Cartels over another pair of Forces. For me they rode better in every way.


Who is this, softer, gentler Nivek


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## Alkasquawlik

Gdog42 said:


> I saw some of next season's Union bindings recently, and noticed that the toe strap looked like it had a slightly different shape. It looks more symmetrical.


Smaller toe strap design, with grippier material on the inside as well.


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## Nivek

jdang307 said:


> Who is this, softer, gentler Nivek


Amazing what happens when a brand fixes their product issues and people representing them show some tact isn't it? The new Union guy here has been civil, I'm being civil in return. AND they DID in fact change every functional issue I had with the Force: heel dampening, toe ratchet, toe strap. Toe strap still isn't tool less, but that's more nit picky. Still doesn't make sense though.


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## P-Ride

Loving the muted red and khaki.. So much cooler than the neon colours I'm (perhaps as a rather understated Brit) really not so keen on..

My 2012 White Forces are satisfying mucky. Sadly I've realised that as I usually fly to the Alps, there really is very little point in owning more than two boards and one set of bindings - however much I'd love another militant-looking setup.


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## Extremo

Nivek said:


> Amazing what happens when a brand fixes their product issues and people representing them show some tact isn't it? The new Union guy here has been civil, I'm being civil in return. AND they DID in fact change every functional issue I had with the Force: heel dampening, toe ratchet, toe strap. Toe strap still isn't tool less, but that's more nit picky. Still doesn't make sense though.


One thing I'm surprised no Force users have pointed out is the change in highback. The old Force had severe calf bite because the top of the highback was so round and stiff. They've added the flat blunted highback design from the Atlas line. IMO that change alone was the best they could make.


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## nzshred

Union 2013-2014

2014 Catalog back up.

Odd to see the cnc'd heelcup gone on the contact pros. Unsure how I feel about that highback and the new frame design which seems to be on a bunch of bindings - both look quite weak from a visual aspect.

Would love to compare my current contact pros vs the new ones and the flite pros seeing as that seems to have taken tech from the old contact pros.


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## Nivek

Contact Pro base isn't really that different other than the mini disc. If they didn't use a moderately stiffer eva on the base though you are going to get more base flex so they'll probably feel softer side to side. And no CNCing the heelcup is meh. It saved maybe a few grams, more importantly it's 3D molded to sit flush with the highback. It should perform better and be stronger.

I don't think anyone is commenting on the highback cause its just gonna be a slightly stiffer version of the Atlas. Not _really_ new.


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## Extremo

Nivek said:


> I don't think anyone is commenting on the highback cause its just gonna be a slightly stiffer version of the Atlas. Not _really_ new.


New to the Force. Which saves the Force from becoming an obsolete binding.


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## Alkasquawlik

Extremo said:


> New to the Force. Which saves the Force from becoming an obsolete binding.


The Force is completely redesigned. 100%, everything on it is new, not just the highback.


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## Extremo

Alkasquawlik said:


> The Force is completely redesigned. 100%, everything on it is new, not just the highback.


Yes, I know this. I'm just saying the one thing that was actually a problem on the previous Force was the highback. I just figured of all mentions about the re-design, those who've ridden both the Force and the Atlas haven't mentioned the addition of the Atlas shaped highback, which IMO, was the most crucial.


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## rscott22

Anyone know what pricing is going to be for everything this year?


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## Gdog42

rscott22 said:


> Anyone know what pricing is going to be for everything this year?


Expensive.


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## Alkasquawlik

rscott22 said:


> Anyone know what pricing is going to be for everything this year?


Specifically what?
Most stuff has stayed the same price. 

With Capita, there was more price movement due to the introduction of some new models, but Union has stayed fairly constant.


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## UNION INHOUSE

Alkasquawlik said:


> Specifically what?
> Most stuff has stayed the same price.
> 
> With Capita, there was more price movement due to the introduction of some new models, but Union has stayed fairly constant.


Alka is correct. No price increases with Union.


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## Triple8Sol

I picked up a set of the Union Force DLX Asadachi bindings back in...I think it was 06? Those and the Burton Cartels I bought the year before (1st yr they introduced the toecap) were the most expensive bindings I'd ever bought. I like alot of aspects of the binding from form to function, even image, but found more and more problems with them and got rid of them after 2 seasons. I've stood by observing their minor tweaks year after year that never really addressed any problems of any consequence, so it's about damn time they are putting out some more thorough redesigns/upgrades for next year. I'm almost tempted to think about looking into the Atlas or Force for 2014!


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## rscott22

Triple8Sol said:


> I picked up a set of the Union Force DLX Asadachi bindings back in...I think it was 06? Those and the Burton Cartels I bought the year before (1st yr they introduced the toecap) were the most expensive bindings I'd ever bought. I like alot of aspects of the binding from form to function, even image, but found more and more problems with them and got rid of them after 2 seasons. I've stood by observing their minor tweaks year after year that never really addressed any problems of any consequence, so it's about damn time they are putting out some more thorough redesigns/upgrades for next year. I'm almost tempted to think about looking into the Atlas or Force for 2014!


UNION makes the most durable binding on the market in my opinion, but one of the most uncomfortable also. Compared to riding my buddies 2012 Burton cartels it was night and day. The cartels seem pretty durable, but being all plastic I doubt they would last as long as my unions, but there toe strap, ankle strap and footbed were much better then unions. With the new pro model having canting this year and now having a 3D ankle strap they should be much better!


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## powispow

how stiff are travis rice's bindings going to be compared to the chargers?


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## UNION INHOUSE

powispow said:


> how stiff are travis rice's bindings going to be compared to the chargers?


The Factory is not as stiff as the Charger. Less carbon all the way around. It's still a stiff binding though.


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## rscott22

Is there more padding or "dampening" on the 2014 UNION Forces? Im excited to upgrade my 2011 forces to next years model, but I was just wondering if the binding was a little more damp now.


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## UNION INHOUSE

rscott22 said:


> Is there more padding or "dampening" on the 2014 UNION Forces? Im excited to upgrade my 2011 forces to next years model, but I was just wondering if the binding was a little more damp now.


Yes, they are quite a bit more damp. Way more EVA on the base.


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## powispow

UNION INHOUSE said:


> The Factory is not as stiff as the Charger. Less carbon all the way around. It's still a stiff binding though.


how would they compare to my 2010 force's?


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## tj_ras

Any "teaser" shots of 2014 bindings?


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## Extremo

Union 2013-2014


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## alihockey

Anyone have any insight on whether the trilogy are good freeride bindings? none of my friends who ride have union so i have nothing to go off of. Also, any big changes for the 14 vs 13 versions?


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## tj_ras

Extremo said:


> Union 2013-2014


:thumbsup: thanks bro. Didnt know the catalog was back up. God damn does the new line look awsome. Cant wait to get my hands on the new forces.


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## Joe Coffee

@Union Inhouse

How does the stiffness of the new 2014 forces compare to the 2013 forces?


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## stan_darsh

i'm stoked on my '13 forces - till the '15 model with espresso machine comes out. no problems with the high back digging here, but i don't whine about the toe strap 'being hard to take off' either... ice cold, strong bindings might hurt dainty hands...

being in the design field, i will just say that union has some of the best design and branding out there, and a lot of my friends in the industry have been initially attracted to the company for that reason... only to find out that the bindings do in fact, kick ass.


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## UNION INHOUSE

Joe Coffee said:


> @Union Inhouse
> 
> How does the stiffness of the new 2014 forces compare to the 2013 forces?




The new Force base is slightly softer than the old one. Maybe 5%. 

The big difference is weight. It's 30% lighter. If that's not a "progression" of a binding model, then I don't know what is. 


How's summer treating everybody?


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## neni

Looking for rather stiff freeride bindings for a rather stiff board. Trilogy or Legacy? Big change to '13? Since the Legacy is pricier, is there more padding/dampening/whatsoever?


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## UNION INHOUSE

neni said:


> Looking for rather stiff freeride bindings for a rather stiff board. Trilogy or Legacy? Big change to '13? Since the Legacy is pricier, is there more padding/dampening/whatsoever?


What size feet do you have nini? 

The Legacy is the stiffest girls binding we offer. Padding - All the girls bindings have 50% more padding on the highback, strap, and footbed. I'd say the Trilogy is the dampest binding we have, but it's not very stiff. 

Depending on your size, we offer smalls in several men's baseplates. This could be the best option. Jess Kimura ran some for a bit, but decided she likes soft bindings in the end. She rides the Trilogy, and I think she's a wms 8.


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## neni

UNION INHOUSE said:


> What size feet do you have nini?


Women's 8, K2 Contour. 5'65ft, 120lbs, riding a Jones Flagship 158. Never tried men's bindings. Heard that the high back hight would be an issue...? (Men's would be tempting due to the more decent colors. Really don't like pink ).


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## UNION INHOUSE

neni said:


> Women's 8, K2 Contour. 5'65ft, 120lbs, riding a Jones Flagship 158. Never tried men's bindings. Heard that the high back hight would be an issue...? (Men's would be tempting due to the more decent colors. Really don't like pink ).


Okay, here's the deal-ee-oh.

This is the binding I'm talking aobut: CONTACT - Orange/Black | C3-SHOP We only make the black/orange color in small.

The highback won't be too tall. It's our shortest men's HB, and is only about 12mm higher than the new Trilogy HB.

I could hit up the dudes at K2, just to make sure. It's beer thirty on a Friday afternoon though, so that would be a "next week" kind of deal.


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## neni

UNION INHOUSE said:


> Okay, here's the deal-ee-oh.
> 
> This is the binding I'm talking aobut: CONTACT - Orange/Black | C3-SHOP We only make the black/orange color in small.
> 
> The highback won't be too tall. It's our shortest men's HB, and is only about 12mm higher than the new Trilogy HB.
> 
> I could hit up the dudes at K2, just to make sure. It's beer thirty on a Friday afternoon though, so that would be a "next week" kind of deal.


Thanks for the link but I gonna buy somewhere here (Switzerland), cause the shipping and taxes would cost a fortune


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## UNION INHOUSE

I was more linking to show you the exact binding/color. Somebody should have them in your zone. 

Cheers.


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## rscott22

When will the 2013-2014 bindings go on sale?


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## Nivek

rscott22 said:


> When will the 2013-2014 bindings go on sale?


Not sure, definitely not the same time they come out EVERY SINGLE YEAR. Why is this still a question?


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## rscott22

Nivek said:


> Not sure, definitely not the same time they come out EVERY SINGLE YEAR. Why is this still a question?


Sorry, not all of us have the time to make over 5,000 posts on a forum and spend hours on a site all day. I just asked simple question that is all.


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## UNION INHOUSE

rscott22 said:


> When will the 2013-2014 bindings go on sale?


Hey buddy,

Bindings are arriving in the Seattle warehouse today. The first few containers are the meat and potatoes of Union - Force, Contact Pro, Contact, Trilogy, Milan, etc... 

We will be offering select shops an early shipment. Once things are actually shipping, I'll let everybody know who has what. I'm guessing we'll have bindings on retail shelves in about a week. 

Can't believe it's already mid July.


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## rscott22

UNION INHOUSE said:


> Hey buddy,
> 
> Bindings are arriving in the Seattle warehouse today. The first few containers are the meat and potatoes of Union - Force, Contact Pro, Contact, Trilogy, Milan, etc...
> 
> We will be offering select shops an early shipment. Once things are actually shipping, I'll let everybody know who has what. I'm guessing we'll have bindings on retail shelves in about a week.
> 
> Can't believe it's already mid July.


Thank you! Much appreciated!


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## UNION INHOUSE

rscott22 said:


> Thank you! Much appreciated!


Here's a pic from today. *We are officially shipping!!!
*:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:


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## Gnarnia

Union has been one of the most disappointing company's for me these last couple of years. Every season i would hope they'd fix their binding issues and honestly they really never did, or a new one popped up. Really glad to see them using some new designs and hopefully this year changes things as i will be demoing some ASAP.

Hate to be a dick in my first post but i could never understand the hype around the Forces. Could of been one of the shittiest bindings i have ever owned.


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## Alkasquawlik

Gnarnia said:


> Union has been one of the most disappointing company's for me these last couple of years. Every season i would hope they'd fix their binding issues and honestly they really never did, or a new one popped up. Really glad to see them using some new designs and hopefully this year changes things as i will be demoing some ASAP.
> 
> Hate to be a dick in my first post but *i could never understand the hype around the Forces. Could of been one of the shittiest bindings i have ever owned.*


It's obviously all personal preference, but the vast amounts of people riding them would beg to differ.

What specific issues did you run into with them?


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## Gnarnia

Alkasquawlik said:


> It's obviously all personal preference, but the vast amounts of people riding them would beg to differ.
> 
> What specific issues did you run into with them?


Well first off the toe strap gave me nightmares and the ratchets would give me trouble every now and again. I was not a fan of the feel of the binding as i found it very cheaply made. My biggest issue with union as a company is for the last couple years i rode the forces, they haven't fixed any major issues of the bindings.


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## UNION INHOUSE

Gnarnia said:


> Well first off the toe strap gave me nightmares and the ratchets would give me trouble every now and again. I was not a fan of the feel of the binding as i found it very cheaply made. My biggest issue with union as a company is for the last couple years i rode the forces, they haven't fixed any major issues of the bindings.


We've hashed and rehashed the toe-strap/ankle-buckle several times here, but let's do it again. 

1. Our toe straps have been changed for 13/14 to accommodate for a wider range of boots. ie) toe box designs. All our friends, team riders, employees and other people who provide feedback, generally use the same boot brands. ThirtyTwo, Nike, DC, Deeluxe, Burton and some Vans. I can't think of a single person who gets product from Union that would ride a boot not listed there. Anyway, over the past 2 years, we have spent a boat load of $$$ buying boots from all companies to cover a wider base. It will never be perfect, but we feel that if we can cover 90% of the boots out there, we are doing a decent job. 

The most important change with toe straps, is they are 2x more adjustable. I'd say most of the time, the issue with straps slipping was due to them not being adjusted correctly. A lot of people don't realize that you can use your heelcup to micro adjust your toe straps (that only works if you're running your disks perpendicular to board edge though). For 13/14, the adjustment piece has twice as many holes. Beauty. 

2. Ratchets - Goal #1 with ratchets is to make sure they NEVER open on their own. Anybody see what happened to Matt Ladley at X Games?? imgur: the simple image sharer If you're at Hood next week, check out what bindings he paid for with his own money so that doesn't happen again. 

We've redesigned the mechanism and changed the ladder strap for smoother glide. Here again, it needs to be adjusted correctly. If the toe strap is too long, the old ones get stuck. Correct adjustment is everything. 

3. Feeling of the binding - Personal preference. You're correct that they ride different than everything else. 

4. In your other post, you said they feel cheap. Here's a quick list of facts:

Nylon injection: Union is the only binding exclusively using Dupont Zytel ST. It's the most expensive nylon available because it's the best by far. It's not even debatable. It allows us to offer a Lifetime Warranty on all Nylon parts. Also, all our nylon is 1st generation, which is important to point out. Durability. 

EVA material: We only use 1st generation injected EVA. No reground pressed cheap stuff. Better dampening and durability.

Hardware: We use Grade 8.8 hardware on everything. It's more expensive, but worth it. Better security.

Weight: Union makes the lightest bindings across the board. Grab a scale and see for yourself. 

Injected Aluminum: Our process comes out 100% pure. Stamped heelcups (all other aluminum heelcups on the market) have been compromised because they are stamped out of dirty sheets of aluminum (which are pressed, not injected), then bent to shape. You can grab one un-assembled with your hands and easily bend it. You can't do that with ours. Durability. 

Magnesium Buckles: Stronger and lighter than aluminum. I haven't seen a broken buckle lever in years. The reason you don't see it on other bindings is because it's an expensive process. Again, investing in materials for durability and end value. 

The goal from Day 1 is to build the strongest binding possible. Sorry for the looooong post. The whole reason I'm on here is to answer questions honestly, and gather feedback. Hopefully I've done that in this post. 

Thanks for reading.


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## Madbob14

I don't have any problems with my 12/13 ratchets. They are a bit hard to get off but the push down then pull method works pretty like a charm!

My only small issue is the paint on the metal part of my heel cup chipped off, but that was prolly my own fault.

Loving my atlas! but I havent had much to compare it to besides some missions.


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## Extremo

Gnarnia said:


> Union has been one of the most disappointing company's for me these last couple of years. Every season i would hope they'd fix their binding issues and honestly they really never did, or a new one popped up. Really glad to see them using some new designs and hopefully this year changes things as i will be demoing some ASAP.
> 
> Hate to be a dick in my first post but i could never understand the hype around the Forces. Could of been one of the shittiest bindings i have ever owned.


Jesus christ another one of these idiots.


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## Nivek

Feedback huh? I'll try to be nice.



UNION INHOUSE said:


> 1.we have spent a boat load of $$$ buying boots from all companies to cover a wider base.


A boat load of money? Ride, K2, Flow, Salomon. You already had the other major brands. Figure you buy 2 boots from each brand, a low end and a high end. Figure at full retail that's about $450 a brand. Times 4 you spent $1800. I wouldn't call that a boat load for a brand that just bougt a factory of their own.



UNION INHOUSE said:


> 2.If the toe strap is too long, the old ones get stuck. Correct adjustment is everything.


Careful the way you treat this. While it isn't necessarily an uncommon occurrence in bindings I'd be careful not to end up sounding like Steve Jobs when the iPhone 4 first dropped. "The antenna works fine, you just have to hold it just like this".



UNION INHOUSE said:


> Nylon injection: Union is the only binding exclusively using Dupont Zytel ST. It's the most expensive nylon available because it's the best by far. It's not even debatable. It allows us to offer a Lifetime Warranty on all Nylon parts. Also, all our nylon is 1st generation, which is important to point out. Durability.


Legitimate question as I sell your stuff and have never heard as such. Your site lists your highbacks as Dupont Zytel ST. You say here you provide lifetime warranties on everything Nylon. Does that apply to highbacks? To my knowledge Salomon is the only brand offering lifetime on highbacks, this would be a huge selling point and if it is the case I'd make sure your reps are letting salesmen know this at clinics.

On Zytel. I have a small understanding of materials engineering. All I could find that made Zytel any better than Polycarb without a name brand on it was it is less chemically reactive and has a better ability to maintain it's build characteristics over varying temperatures. Granted in some cases for certain riders varying temperatures could mean -40 to 60 degrees Fahrenheit. The other issue I ran into was Dupont doesn't offer a reference as to what greater termperature ranges really means. Understanding the other applications Dupont is touting a 100 degree change with the application of a snowboard binding didn't strike me as significant. Personally I'd love to see some articles or paperwork giving some numbers to back up the claim Zytel is superior in every way for a snwoboard binding.



UNION INHOUSE said:


> Hardware: We use Grade 8.8 hardware on everything. It's more expensive, but worth it. Better security.


Not really a durability issue, but we had probably 8-10 pairs of bindings come back into the shop out of the probably 60 or so we sold with seized highback adjuster bolts. I had 2 of the 3 pairs I owned do the same thing on at least on bolt.



UNION INHOUSE said:


> Injected Aluminum: Our process comes out 100% pure. Stamped heelcups (all other aluminum heelcups on the market) have been compromised because they are stamped out of dirty sheets of aluminum (which are pressed, not injected), then bent to shape. You can grab one un-assembled with your hands and easily bend it. You can't do that with ours. Durability.


The most common breaks I see on Unions are blown ratchets, cracked highbacks, and cracked heelcups. I'd rather something bend than crack. I did see the better shaping in the heelcup from I think the Force up at the show and it should be better suited to a downward force.

I've been saying it since SIA, I want to get in the new Forces. You fixed all of my personal issues with that binding and I genuinely have high hopes.


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## Master Shredder

24WERD said:


> the contact pro doesn't have carbon injected base anymore.
> 
> The force looks good.
> 
> 
> Union should make canted footbeds for the new and old force as a package (1 , 2,3 degrees) and or just individual package sets. And charge like 20$ they will make a killing of additional cash to existing customer base.
> 
> If they don't come out with it, someone out there will. Or there is the put a strap underneath the footbed and get a bigger screw.


+1. Totally agree.


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## Gnarnia

Extremo said:


> Jesus christ another one of these idiots.


What was idiotic about my post? I have literally rode every single pair of forces released since 09. Why do you think there are so many complains about the ratchets and toe straps from customers? I'm sorry to piss on your favorite company but open your eyes, jesus. I'd ride a pair of technine bindings ANY DAY over the entire 2012 union binding line (except the Atlas bindings of coarse).


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## BurtonAvenger

Gnarnia said:


> What was idiotic about my post? I have literally rode every single pair of forces released since 09. Why do you think there are so many complains about the ratchets and toe straps from customers? I'm sorry to piss on your favorite company but open your eyes, jesus. I'd ride a pair of technine bindings ANY DAY over the entire 2012 union binding line (except the Atlas bindings of coarse).


Ignore him if you're not cupping the companies balls he likes you're a moron.


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## UNION INHOUSE

Nivek said:


> Feedback huh? I'll try to be nice.
> 
> A boat load of money? Ride, K2, Flow, Salomon. You already had the other major brands. Figure you buy 2 boots from each brand, a low end and a high end. Figure at full retail that's about $450 a brand. Times 4 you spent $1800. I wouldn't call that a boat load for a brand that just bougt a factory of their own.
> 
> *Sorry for the vague "boat load" reference. We bought a pretty big range of sizes and models from each of these companies. Sizes 6-12 sprinkled around. I'll put it this way, we have a 900 square foot room full of boot racks. A lot of the boots we got for free, and we paid for the rest. Easily more thank 5K euro. I consider that a lot of money. *
> 
> *I assume you're talking about the Capita factory. Capita and Union are different companies. Separate countries, separate banks and different employees (with the exception of Joni Makinen). *
> 
> Legitimate question as I sell your stuff and have never heard as such. Your site lists your highbacks as Dupont Zytel ST. You say here you provide lifetime warranties on everything Nylon. Does that apply to highbacks? To my knowledge Salomon is the only brand offering lifetime on highbacks, this would be a huge selling point and if it is the case I'd make sure your reps are letting salesmen know this at clinics.
> 
> *Lifetime warranty on all plastic parts. *
> 
> On Zytel. I have a small understanding of materials engineering. All I could find that made Zytel any better than Polycarb without a name brand on it was it is less chemically reactive and has a better ability to maintain it's build characteristics over varying temperatures. Granted in some cases for certain riders varying temperatures could mean -40 to 60 degrees Fahrenheit. The other issue I ran into was Dupont doesn't offer a reference as to what greater termperature ranges really means. Understanding the other applications Dupont is touting a 100 degree change with the application of a snowboard binding didn't strike me as significant. Personally I'd love to see some articles or paperwork giving some numbers to back up the claim Zytel is superior in every way for a snwoboard binding.
> 
> *You're right, Zytel ST maintains it's flex and strength in a wider temp range. It also holds up to impact (like smacking a rail) better. It's less brittle, and stronger in thin areas like highbacks. This is key because you can design things thinner, where you want flex, and still have strength.
> 
> The reason they don't offer references is because the characteristics vary, depending on the temp and humidity at the time of injection. *
> 
> Not really a durability issue, but we had probably 8-10 pairs of bindings come back into the shop out of the probably 60 or so we sold with seized highback adjuster bolts. I had 2 of the 3 pairs I owned do the same thing on at least on bolt.
> 
> *Cross threading. Do you think it could be something else? It's kind of a double edged sword, because we use small threads on that hardware because it's less likely to loosen up. The problem is that makes them easier to cross thread. If we go with a bigger thread, we'll have less cross threading and more hardware loosening.
> *
> 
> The most common breaks I see on Unions are blown ratchets, cracked highbacks, and cracked heelcups. I'd rather something bend than crack. I did see the better shaping in the heelcup from I think the Force up at the show and it should be better suited to a downward force.
> 
> *
> Cracking heelcups? Do you guys have any laying around the shop? Send me a pic. Trust me, this is not a common thing. *
> 
> *I'm assuming you've been riding for a long time Kevin, and working in a shop I bet you see the same customer always coming back with issues. His speed lace busted, his ratched busted, the zipper on his coat busted.... They treat ratchets like they're trying to tighten a lug nut on a car. It seems like people who have been riding for a long time are more gentle with their ratchets, thus the springs and pins don't break. They don't spaz out when zipping their jacket, and the zipper never breaks. Know what I mean? *
> 
> *The hardest thing design on a binding is the ratchet. I'm not saying ours are perfect, but IMO they are as good as anything out there, and never pop open on their own. *
> 
> *Remember, this started because somebody posted that our bindings suck and are cheaply built.*


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## Nivek

That makes a lot more sense with the boot $$ comment. That is definitely something I like hearing and does instill a lot more confidence in the new design.

I'll take your repetition "Lifetime warranty on all plastic parts" that you do in fact offer lifetime on highbacks. I will start letting customers know this.

On Zytel again, this is kinda why I asked for any empirical data that isn't brand-only knowledge. It may be that Duponts polycarb does in fact have all these benefits you speak of, but when you start adding carbon and/or glass and the varying levels and types, things can change quite drastically. That I can think of without really going and digging Union is the only binding company using a branded polycarb. It's hard to take on word that it's better in every way. After all, advil is just ibuprofen.

It might be cross threading, but its been the same system at least since 2007. I can't imagine that it has only become a problem in the last 2 years. There are ways to build it with larger threads to avoid cross threading and keep them from backing out.

I'll be clearer with the heelcup issue, I never had any come back in shop. These are instances from friends and friends of friends. One aspect I have always spoken of in my personal experience with Union is your working durability. Things break, but I never had anything break that made them unrideable.


I know that distribution doesn't equal same money. I was under the impression that Capita and Union were closer financially than just distribution. My apologize for the assumption.

In case it was the impression, I didn't jump on this to back up the basher. Your post raised some questions of mine and gave me an opportunity to mention some other things. Since our conversations are getting more and more civil I figured it'd be a good time to bring up some things that others would have just yelled at me about 8 months ago.


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## Unanko

*need the helps*

I'd like to ask which Union bindings to buy for next season. I have a 12-13 K2 Playback and i have been trying to decide on whether i should get the Contact Pros, Atlas or the new force. Anyone who can help me with this?


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## Extremo

Unanko said:


> I'd like to ask which Union bindings to buy for next season. I have a 12-13 K2 Playback and i have been trying to decide on whether i should get the Contact Pros, Atlas or the new force. Anyone who can help me with this?


Can't go wrong with any of those choices. The new Contact Pro's and Force are redesigned so scoop one up and let us know what you think.


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## phony_stark

Like Extremo said, all are good choices.

(only speaking from what I know about 2013)
Contact pros are hella light have a lot of lateral flex (which I like). They also seem to work just as well on a really soft board as a stiffer one.

Forces are more responsive and have a taller highback, they're plenty comfortable and you get a LOT of response out of them if you crank the forward lean.

Atlas is somewhere in the middle....probably my favorite binding. Super comfortable and soft and mellow when you need them to be, and responsive when you need them to be.


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## Sander

First of HI!

I got these flows nxt-fs for two seasons but they really never worked. so i was looking at some unions to get this year but im in doubt. i own a forum 2010 substance which i love and take really good care off. I also own a pair of 32 prions. the thing is these flow things kill my foot and when they are very loose well they are loose and dont work at all and i cramp up both ways. so now i want the control but also the flex and comfort to go with my board.

i was thinking of the contact pro´s to promote my board flex and comfort. im still searching and i hope i can get some advice from you and the dude from union.


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## BigmountainVMD

I might be finally jumping off the Burton binding bandwagon for some Union Factorys... Love the canting and the stiff highbacks that maintain torsional flexibility.


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## Nivek

Sander said:


> First of HI!
> 
> I got these flows nxt-fs for two seasons but they really never worked. so i was looking at some unions to get this year but im in doubt. i own a forum 2010 substance which i love and take really good care off. I also own a pair of 32 prions. the thing is these flow things kill my foot and when they are very loose well they are loose and dont work at all and i cramp up both ways. so now i want the control but also the flex and comfort to go with my board.
> 
> i was thinking of the contact pro´s to promote my board flex and comfort. im still searching and i hope i can get some advice from you and the dude from union.


Sounds more like a boot issue than a binding issue. Pions are a low end boot. Chancs are they never fit right or if they did they've broken down.


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## Sander

Hi thanks for the reply. The boot i bought after testing and altough low end the problem does not excist when riding burton custom x with missons on them hence my remark and thoughline to bindings. Sounds ok?

I can offcourse look into it


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## odvan

Lads, could you rotate highbacks on new Forces like on Atlas?
Can't find this feature in description.


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## 24WERD

Prob, the only one I heard you can't is the Charger.

Now Where is that 2015 Catalog now that the SIA show is over?


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