# Snow Chains For North Lake Tahoe from Los Angeles?



## Guest (Dec 8, 2009)

I'll be driving from LA to Truckee over Christmas break in a Jeep Wrangler 4WD with BF Goodrich Long-terrain TA tires (standard size). Should I get chains? I've heard that you may not need to put them on if you have a 4WD, but are required to show them. Is that right?

Thanks!


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## zakk (Apr 21, 2008)

Creelove said:


> I'll be driving from LA to Truckee over Christmas break in a Jeep Wrangler 4WD with BF Goodrich Long-terrain TA tires (standard size). Should I get chains? I've heard that you may not need to put them on if you have a 4WD, but are required to show them. Is that right?
> 
> Thanks!


if you have AWD/4WD they'll let you go. I have a Scoobie, so they see the emblem and wave me by, on a Heep...errr....Jeep, you might need to show them the hubs are locked. 

I've never been asked to show my chains (but I do have a set, because it can get crazy) but either way its not a bad idea to have them


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## killclimbz (Aug 10, 2007)

There are times when Caltrans requires chains, no matter what you are driving. A set of cables at Walmart is around $30 give or take what wheel size you have. You probably won't need 'em, but if they are required, it's a hell of a lot less than letting those roadside crews do a custom set for you. Which are very crappy btw. So just get a set, throw them in the back, and forget about it.


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## Guest (Dec 8, 2009)

as long as your 4x4 works, you're good. In '96 I went up that mountain in my 90 jeep cherokee, hit storm, police let me on highway because it was a 4x4, 2-3 miles later I learned my 4x4 U-lock was busted. Driving up hill in rear wheel drive with no LSD in a storm sucks. basically 1 wheel drive, we rolled backwards on the shoulder to get back to the offramp since we couldn't go forwards.


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## burritosandsnow (Nov 22, 2008)

for sure get some .. you DO NOT wanna get raped by Caltrans for shitty chains at $100 plus bucks... some places around here will let you return unused chains in the spring. maybe theres some folks in soccal that do the same.


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## Guest (Dec 9, 2009)

I just need one pair? I don't need to buy them for all 4 wheels, right? If I do have to use them, which wheels (front or back) should they go on?


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## stoepstyle (Sep 15, 2008)

You only need one set of two. And if you are only running 2wd you put them on the rear tires, but if you want to get REALLY gnarly and run 4wd AND chains you would put them on the front. My guess is you will never take them out of the box


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## say chi sin lo (Oct 15, 2009)

Get them, 4WD only helps when you're going, but when it comes to stopping, you're just as helpless as any RWD/FWD cars.


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## stoepstyle (Sep 15, 2008)

When it comes to slowing you can put your car in a low gear and the engine will brake all 4 wheels with 4wd. Definitely get them though just in case.


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## Bones (Feb 24, 2008)

say chi sin lo said:


> Get them, 4WD only helps when you're going, but when it comes to stopping, you're just as helpless as any RWD/FWD cars.


+1

Four wheel Drive isn't four wheel stop. Driving prudently, using the benefits of a manual transmission, having ABS are all benefits, but if the rubber don't stick to the road, they don't matter.

I find it strange that chains are mandatory under certain conditions in certain states, but in Canada they're illegal because they chew up the road surface.


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## killclimbz (Aug 10, 2007)

What cracks me up is that studded snow tires are illegal (at least can't be sold) in California because they do too much "damage" to the roads. Compared to chains really?


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## say chi sin lo (Oct 15, 2009)

I guess because they're studs, they have an easier time piercing into the ground. Vs chains, which has more surface area, less penetration.


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## Guest (Dec 9, 2009)

The California Vehicle Code [Section 27454 (e)], permits studded tires to be used on vehicles between November 1 and April 30 of each year. The number of studs or the percentage of metal in contact with the roadway cannot exceed three percent of the total tire area in contact with the roadway.


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## Guest (Dec 9, 2009)

wow. i feel like an idiot. im from the east coast. i had never heard of chains being REQUIRED somewhere..thats crazy.


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## killclimbz (Aug 10, 2007)

snowdog said:


> The California Vehicle Code [Section 27454 (e)], permits studded tires to be used on vehicles between November 1 and April 30 of each year. The number of studs or the percentage of metal in contact with the roadway cannot exceed three percent of the total tire area in contact with the roadway.


Interesting find there snowdog. Since I am in Colorado, I am a bit out of touch with Cali rules and regs. I remember being able to get snow tires, but not studded ones back in the day. Kind of interesting as I think most tire shops there just sell snow tires and don't even offer studs.


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## dharmashred (Apr 16, 2009)

I'm confused, can someone please clarify for me! We are heading up to Mammoth tomorrow and a storm is expected. My car has AWD quattro and all season tires. I have tiptronic shifting, so the last trip during the storm, i turned off traction control and used the tiptronic shifting to keep the car in the lower gear. Here's my confusion:

I am going to pick up some chains anyway, just in case it's so gnarly that Caltrans mandates, but:

1. Anyone with experience with AWD and snow or all season tires, if you have ever used chains, how serious was the storm for you to decide to use them?

2. Confused about the buying 2 or 4. I thought since it's all wheel I would need 4 chains, is this correct? What would 2 chains do if the car is all wheel...wouldn't the back or front just skid out? 

:dunno:


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## say chi sin lo (Oct 15, 2009)

1) Why would you turn off traction control?

2) It's not just the surface, but also the temperature too. For example, most performance summer tires turn into bricks below 35. They stop gripping the road. I don't know the temperature for all-season tires, but the colder it gets, the harder it is for the tires to do the job.

3) You are right about # of chains, you put chains on your driven wheels. 

I'll say it again, AWD will only help you get going, they're useless when it comes to stopping. Chains help a bit, but honestly, if there is substantial amount of snow/ice on the road, they do close to nothing.

If you know a storm is coming, why would you even go? You're asking for it. I'm tracking the same storm this weekend and it's looking bad, not as bad as the one we just had, but bad enough.


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## dharmashred (Apr 16, 2009)

say chi sin lo said:


> 1) Why would you turn off traction control?
> 
> 2) It's not just the surface, but also the temperature too. For example, most performance summer tires turn into bricks below 35. They stop gripping the road. I don't know the temperature for all-season tires, but the colder it gets, the harder it is for the tires to do the job.
> 
> ...


1. ESP off allows tires to spin to gain traction.....

2. Makes sense.

3. Sweet, thanks.

Ummm...aside from the fact that that the season is *HERE AT LAST*...why would i go up if i know a storm is coming  Ummm...that's why i'm going!!! 


Thanks for the info!


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## zakk (Apr 21, 2008)

say chi sin lo said:


> 1)
> If you know a storm is coming, why would you even go? You're asking for it. I'm tracking the same storm this weekend and it's looking bad, not as bad as the one we just had, but bad enough.


Eddie would go. And so will I.


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## baldylox (Dec 27, 2007)

stoepstyle said:


> When it comes to slowing you can put your car in a low gear and the engine will brake all 4 wheels with 4wd. Definitely get them though just in case.


Brakes use all 4 wheels.


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## Guest (Dec 12, 2009)

Majority braking power comes up front. On Quattro as well.


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## dharmashred (Apr 16, 2009)

Thanks!  

Update: Drove up from LA earlier today, in Mammoth now, granted not mid-storm, but snowing, and on the way in, many people had to chain up right when we hit the city (no Caltrans/mandate posted up yet). Picked up some chains in Bishop, just in case, ($75.00 a pr) but didn't need them, not yet anyway. I for sure feel the difference in traction when i turn the traction control off, I can feel the tires digging in to gain that traction. We'll see what happens tomorrow, the real shit is slated to hit the fan.


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## baldylox (Dec 27, 2007)

snowdog said:


> Majority braking power comes up front. On Quattro as well.


Not looking to start a flame war, but that is not going to come into play when you are driving on snow. The majority of braking power is up front in normal conditions because you can brake hard enough for the weight to shift forward without the wheels locking up. If you are using engine braking to slow yourself in the snow, I'd say you're definitely doing yourself a disservice. You can modulate stopping power much better with the brakes.


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## Guest (Dec 13, 2009)

cifex said:


> Not looking to start a flame war, but that is not going to come into play when you are driving on snow. The majority of braking power is up front in normal conditions because you can brake hard enough for the weight to shift forward without the wheels locking up. If you are using engine braking to slow yourself in the snow, I'd say you're definitely doing yourself a disservice. You can modulate stopping power much better with the brakes.


No worries. My response was simply to your statement "brakes use all four wheels". Just wanted to clarify for those that may have taken that to mean 50/50 front back as that is not the case for most modern cars.

For discussions sake:
It does come into play though, when turning, as the back will swing around. IMO a disservice by engine braking is that your wheels can lock up as well if decelerating too fast. Both techniques have their place if used properly. Key is to go smooth without sudden acceleration/deceleration.


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## dharmashred (Apr 16, 2009)

Today was gnarly, we went up the mountain during the storm this morning and getting down was interesting! Lots of shovels and tow trucks...a few people skid out a bit. Visibility was the sketchiest part. As it turned out i did not need the chains, but a shitload of others did. (Man, those Subarus get busy, a couple of them passed me right up, no chains needed!) Keeping the car in the lower gear with the esp off worked well since I did not have to do much braking, took it slow, left ample space in front and behind and it all worked out. The car also has a feature called "hill assist" which is tantamount to a cruise control when going up or down a steep hill in weather conditions, it keeps the car in the lower gear and increases the traction.


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