# Speed Control



## cookiedog

Hi everybody,
So I'm faced with the problem riding moderately steep hills and hope I can get some advice. I starred snowboarding this season and with help from YouTube I taught myself everything from proper stance to linking turns and now I'm riding greens with certain amount of confidence. But I'm having hard time controlling my speed on less steeper parts of the run especially when I find myself on a crowded run where I can't do wider S turns to slow down. I saw more advanced snowboarders passing by with much higher speed and making very short sweeps with their back foot and front foot still pointing down the hill and it seems like this kind of moves allow them to control speed much better.
I hope I described it properly and maybe somebody can tell me how to do this


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## poutanen

IMHO, the best method of speed control is controlled linked turns. Usually larger S turns are going to be higher speed, so you want to do shorter sharper turns, really digging the edge in more to control your speed. 

Check out this video, there is some pretty bad technique going on here with arms swinging, odd stance, etc. But look at the rhythm and pace of the turns. That is what you want to aim for to control your speed on a crowded hill, or narrow run, in the trees, etc.

Learn to do short radius turns and it'll really amp up your riding!






Also, don't hesitate to get a lesson. Youtube is good, but it's not a coach. Nobody made it to the olympics by having youtube coach them...


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## linvillegorge

cookiedog said:


> Hi everybody,
> So I'm faced with the problem riding moderately steep hills and hope I can get some advice. I starred snowboarding this season and with help from YouTube I taught myself everything from proper stance to linking turns and now I'm riding greens with certain amount of confidence. But I'm having hard time controlling my speed on less steeper parts of the run especially when I find myself on a crowded run where I can't do wider S turns to slow down. *I saw more advanced snowboarders passing by with much higher speed and making very short sweeps with their back foot and front foot still pointing down the hill* and it seems like this kind of moves allow them to control speed much better.
> I hope I described it properly and maybe somebody can tell me how to do this


Don't do that. That's a terrible habit often called "ruddering". 

There are certain situations such as tight trees and moguls where sometimes you just have to do what you have to do, but on an open slope there's not place for ruddering. You'll have much better control over your board making proper turns.


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## cookiedog

So what is the alternative? just making shorter more dynamic linked turns?


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## poutanen

cookiedog said:


> So what is the alternative? just making shorter more dynamic linked turns?


Yes. Get aggressive, bend you knees, go on a slope that is pretty empty where you're comfortable making large turns, and start trying to do them quicker and quicker.

There's a rhythm you can get into when you can end up making really quick sharp dynamic turns. And if you're bending your knees and riding aggressively, you can control speed really well like that. When I get out on a 35-40 degree slope, rarely am I making big wide sweeping fast turns, it's short, sharp, determined turns to control speed.


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## cookiedog

Thanks a lot, I'm going on this weekend I'll try to do what you said.:yahoo:


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## chomps1211

poutanen said:


> Check out this video, *there is some pretty bad technique going on here with arms swinging, odd stance, etc*. But look at the rhythm and pace of the turns. That is what you want to aim for to control your speed on a crowded hill, or narrow run, in the trees, etc.
> 
> Learn to do short radius turns and it'll really amp up your riding!


Oh I dunno? That looks an awful lot like the "disco" method you mentioned to me in one of my video critique requests last year! LOL! :eusa_clap:

Put on some disco track on in the bg and watch it again. Looks like he's "boogyoogy -oogying" to me! :laugh:




To the OP,.. That kind of speed control is also where being able to "rudder with your back foot can come in handy too. May not be the "_preferred_" proper form, but you can still maintain speed and control while scrubbing some speed whenever necessary. All while still pointing your board generally down the slope!


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## poutanen

chomps1211 said:


> Oh I dunno? That looks an awful lot like the "disco" method you mentioned to me in one of my video critique requests last year! LOL! :eusa_clap:
> 
> All while still pointing your board generally down the slope!


Yeah that guys style was pretty bad in a technical sense! Just the best vid I found showing the pace of quick turns... 

Also, you want to bring your board ACROSS the fall line to control speed, while keeping your upper body pointing down hill. 

Here's a video from our old buddy. Skip over to 4:15 to see what I'm talking about. He has good body separation (the upper body stays facing one directions while the lower half is rotating), and he's getting his board across the fall line. This is the best way to control speed.


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## cookiedog

This Woolf scared shit out me it was so loud


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## t21

That snowolf vid taught me how to control speed. I too never took lessons, just videos,watching others,and some pointers from my neighbor who is an instructor helped me out. time on the mountain helps more than anything. One important thing is to keep your body aligned with the board,knees bent, relax, and not bent over from your waist . The first vid(short swings) shows he can do short skidded turns on mellow runs but if you notice on the second segment on his video and a slightly steeper hill, his bent over from the waist, that is NOT what you want to do. So as a fellow youtuber lesson watcher keep practicing and have fun.


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## F1EA

poutanen said:


> Yeah that guys style was pretty bad in a technical sense! Just the best vid I found showing the pace of quick turns...
> 
> Also, you want to bring your board ACROSS the fall line to control speed, while keeping your upper body pointing down hill.
> 
> Here's a video from our old buddy. Skip over to 4:15 to see what I'm talking about. He has good body separation (the upper body stays facing one directions while the lower half is rotating), and he's getting his board across the fall line. This is the best way to control speed.


IMO that video is the best. Most people refer to carving and completely separate it from skidded turns (so it almost becomes like slalom/boarder X), this was very confusing to me when I wanted to control speed on steeper runs... 

I only used cross-under turns when i needed to either maneouver around skiers or a quick acceleration burst..... until i saw that video. Clear as light. Took me 1 run to get the basic down, now i'm working on improving the technique.

One thing i really like but i'm not sure if it's proper technique is starting a carve like a cross under, but finishing it as a cross over..... feels pretty awesome.


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## poutanen

F1EA said:


> One thing i really like but i'm not sure if it's proper technique is starting a carve like a cross under, but finishing it as a cross over..... feels pretty awesome.


This is my favorite style when on steep on-piste runs. Although it's tough to do with a crowd around (as the OP mentioned). Ultimately carving with NO slide is the best feeling you get while turning a board... Just feels so right! :yahoo:


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## ksup3erb

I'm confused. Isn't that still a cross under turn?


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## F1EA

ksup3erb said:


> I'm confused. Isn't that still a cross under turn?


Not really, if you look at the way his body and weight are arranged about midway through the carve, he's in a cross over turn.... but the very start of the turn (ie the turn transition and how he switches edges) is like a cross-under. (He doesnt ALWAYS do this, some turns are full cross-under, but many turns are a mix). And also, you dont have to go all the way and finish the turn, you can cross-under and switch the edge at any point in the turn, it all depends on how you manage your knees and toe/heel pressure.

The guy in that video is doing it beyond right though... like text book carving. It gets a bit harder to do that in a duck stance or with less camber or on a very steep or crowded hill.

In my case, i did a lot of cross over and then pure speed checks to control speed... but that left me squaring my body and on steep runs it was really difficult to keep an edge. Also, going full carve with no skid simply carries too much speed... so these mixed turns help you engage the edges with the power of a cross under, while bleeding a bit of speed if you want (and altering the turn radius) with your rear leg without needing to square your body.

I'm nowhere near advanced... but that's more or less the way i see it.


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## ksup3erb

Ok, I think we are on the same page. I've always thought of "cross-under" and "cross-over" as how the turn is initiated. Once the turn is initiated I weight over the edge in a cross-over fashion. So I guess I do the hybrid style too. Or try to.


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## GOskiLF_bum

cross under and cross over terminology is going away. start thinking about how you un-weight the board. do you extend at the initiation of the turn or do you flex? this is the question you need to ask yourself. both are correct, just different.


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## ksup3erb

GOskiLF_bum said:


> cross under and cross over terminology is going away. start thinking about how you un-weight the board. do you extend at the initiation of the turn or do you flex? this is the question you need to ask yourself. both are correct, just different.


Thanks master. :eusa_clap:


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## SnowDogWax

Snowboarding is just flat out "Supercalifragilisticexpialidocious":yahoo:


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## BearPaw

*Look two turns ahead*

Some good advice given here on this thread. Another point is plan ahead while riding don't react while riding. Look and plan two turns ahead as you ride. Your control and riding skill will increase dramatically riding/planning ahead.


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## F1EA

SnowDogWax said:


> Snowboarding is just flat out "Supercalifragilisticexpialidocious":yahoo:


Except when you're on a steep icy hill with a full rocker board. That takes the whole califragilisticexpialidociousness out of it.


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## SnowDogWax

^^^ Agreed you would then be a little off your rocker!!!


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## F1EA

GOskiLF_bum said:


> cross under and cross over terminology is going away. start thinking about how you un-weight the board. do you extend at the initiation of the turn or do you flex? this is the question you need to ask yourself. both are correct, just different.


You know... I had seen this video a while ago, ran into it again today... and i think here's a couple perfect examples of pure Cross-over turns. He still does some cross-unders and some mixed... but i think this illustrates pretty well the distinction i was trying to make yesterday:






Awesome carving there.

Edit> oh and for relevance: note how he shaves speed near the end of each turn by applying force to the rear and going a bit upslope.


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## GOskiLF_bum

yup this is cross over. my point was that it's too confusing what cross over and under really is. cross over = legs extend at the start of a new turn; cross under = legs flex at the start of a new turn and then extend during the shaping of the turn. not that that explanation is much easier. in this video he is clearly extending his legs to start a new turn so he's doing cross over turns. i like how his board pops off the snow and how he lands on a new edge.

and great, great point about how he uses the slope to slow down by going a bit uphill. most new riders don't even come close to doing this. great video...thanks for sharing.


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