# Backside trouble!



## chomps1211 (Mar 30, 2011)

No! Not hemorrhoids!  


I have been trying to get some buttering tricks down, pressed 180's with/without ollies or nollies. Trying to get some pressed 360's down etc. While I can do a few of these fairly well frontside, both reg and switch. I am having some real trouble commiting to any of them backside. 

It isn't just fear/nervousness over turning my back to the fall line, (...although I suspect that does play some part.) i am having a lot of trouble getting on, and feeling balanced and in control on my toeside edge when pressed. This makes it hard for me to set up for any backside spins, moves! 

I am riding Cartels on all three boards and without an adjustable heel cup, they are as centered as I can make them. But, I do have ever so slightly more heel overhang than toe! Maybe as much as .5 to .75 in. 

Would I be well advised to shift that extra little bit of overhang to my toeside edge to gain the control I'm after? I figure I could compensate for any loss of heelside response with my forward lean. Any thoughts, advice on whether or not I'm on the right track?


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## stan_darsh (Mar 10, 2013)

maybe just try doing them on flat without moving to get comfortable with the motion. start to initiate the turn with your arms etc and let your lower body follow. it's probably just that you are more comfortable turning one way etc...

also try spinning (without pressing) while riding both fronstide and backside as you go down the hill. it'll make you way more comfortable going both ways and will build up your switch riding in the process


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## slowandlow (Oct 12, 2011)

I had to overcome this same fear when I started riding again after taking several years off. 

Exactly what Stan said. Flat, controlled spins. Perioette your way down a gentle hill. As you become more comfortable w/ the motion of turning your back to the fall line, you can start to exaggerate the motion and roll up on your tips. I wouldn't go messing w/ your stance.


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## chomps1211 (Mar 30, 2011)

That's just it guys,.. I have been comfortable doing front & backside _flat_ spins since last season. I can do regular and switch frontside nose roll and tail roll 180's. I can hold and ride a straight tail press. I can even hold a straight nose press for a few yards before I start to feel sketchy. 

This past week, I was working to get another butter trick down,.. I dont know what you call it, if I was doing this move on a box or rail, I believe it would be a frontside boardslide. Basically I'm pressing the nose or tail and riding heelside with the board 90° to the fall line. again, I can do this one frontside on either the nose or tail, But I can't do that move backside either!!

I just cant seem to get up on, and _hold_ that toeside edging well enough to keep from feeling like Im about to catch my heel edge and eat shit! :dunno:


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## chomps1211 (Mar 30, 2011)

...well, absent any feedback on the possible Pro's/Con's of gaining better toe side response by moving my extra overhang from heel to toe? Since I've got the 3 boards, I guess I'll go ahead and make that change on one of them and just see how it goes tomorrow. :dunno: The Rome GR has the newer reflex Cartels on it, and the shift from that extra heel to toe overhang will be smaller than with the older Cartels. (_...reflex disk has smaller and fewer adjustment positions than the older ones._) 

It's supposed to hit the mid 40's today and tomorrow, so the snow should be plenty soft for the inevitable fails! I'll let you know how it went. (If you don't see me online for a few days? .....It went badly!  ) :thumbsup:


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## Rasse (Dec 12, 2013)

Sounds like the overhang might be the thing. I would say that it's easier to get "on top of the edge" or finding the balance point when you have more overhang on the toeside. But once you find the balance point, it will be harder to keep yourself right on the balance point since the toeside-edge is more sensitive to your movements. So it has both good and bad sides to it.

How duck is your stance ? The binding angles might have something to do with it.


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## chomps1211 (Mar 30, 2011)

+18° / -12° on all three boards. +23-24(ish) stance width.


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## Rasse (Dec 12, 2013)

It might be harder to get on the toes if the toes point more towards your nose than towards the edge.. But those angles don't sound too big. Only thing I can really think of is shifting the overhang to the toeside and just finding the sweet spot where you are well-balanced. 

One thing I've noticed is that you can lean way further on the nose and tail than what feels comfortable before falling over that way. So, for the buttering tricks you could try leaning more on the nose or tail, that way you have less edge on the ground that can catch.
Sorry, pretty much nothing useful


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## Lamps (Sep 3, 2011)

Cartels are pretty stiff, maybe don't crank them down, and also maybe just a hair looser on the top half of your boots?

My kid switched to Lexas, which is the female version of cartels, found she couldn't do tripods or some spins, switched back to a softer binding. 

Equipment and setup is likely 5 per cent of the solution, the other 95 per cent is practice methinks.


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## CassMT (Mar 14, 2013)

Lamps said:


> Equipment and setup is likely 5 per cent of the solution, the other 95 per cent is practice methinks.


^^^ 5 or less, don't worry about the stance and all. pay close attention when you do fall, notice why and correct it. also try not to look at your feet or board, for bs stuff i like to look where i'm going under my armpit


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## stan_darsh (Mar 10, 2013)

yeah, i agree not to really mess with your stance setup. at least not for the sake of one trick. maybe try and get a video and really commit to the trick a few times? who cares if you fall!


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## snowklinger (Aug 30, 2011)

try doing backside nose rolls.

slowing that down can become what you are looking for.

I find a little session of nose rolling down a slope before I start to actually butter to be helpful to get the muscle memory and board flex realigned.


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## chomps1211 (Mar 30, 2011)

Thanks guys! I appreciate the feedback. I am not trying to be "That Guy!" Blaming his gear and all! ...I've seen "Got Wood?" I know what a good rider can do with any ol plank! I'm just stymied by my inability to get up on that toe edge while pressed! (...guess I'm just not _that_ good a rider!)  

In my regular riding I can get a pretty sweet toe side carve! Using both feet, I have no trouble getting up on that toe edge to slam on the brakes or digging a trench in hard turns etc. Even on the Arbor, which is a _wide_ board and I'm only in a 10.5 boot! (...I will say that any long(ish) toe side traverse tends to start to give me pain in the balls of my feet on all my boards!)

The difference in overhang after adjusting the reflex Cartel's moved the binding forward only about 1/4 inch towards the toe. So I already went ahead and made the change on that board.

I usually take 2 boards with me,.. (sometimes all 3) whenever I go. I also always have an extensive tool kit in the car and carry a #3 screwdriver in a pack if I'm carrying one. So if changing the overhang on the RGR really sucks response wise, or I just really don't like it for whatever reason,.. I can always change it back. Or just switch to my Proto or Arbor and finish the day riding!

Having been working on these tricks for a while now, I think it's worth giving this a try, if nothing else just to be able to rule it out! (I always wear a helmet too!)  :thumbsup:


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## CassMT (Mar 14, 2013)

one other tidbit that may seem counter-intuitive...make sure you have some speed, too slow and edgeing will just hook you up, greater risk when you slam maybe, but moderate speed needed...imo


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## chomps1211 (Mar 30, 2011)

snowklinger said:


> try doing backside nose rolls.
> 
> slowing that down can become what you are looking for.
> 
> I find a little session of nose rolling down a slope before I start to actually butter to be helpful to get the muscle memory and board flex realigned.


_That's_ actually one of the tricks I've been trying to get!! I am just having a real bitch of a time with that toe to toe edge control. I got it pretty well locked down heel side, but as I've been saying, I can't seem to manage the toe side control! 

Same with trying to take any of the pressed 180's and continue around to a full 360! As soon as I start to transition past the 180 point and get toe side, I can't get it up and keep it up on that edge! (_....yeah, yeah,.. I know!_)  


-edit-


CassMT said:


> one other tidbit that may seem counter-intuitive...make sure you have some speed, too slow and edgeing will just hook you up, greater risk when you slam maybe, but moderate speed needed...imo


Now _that_ could well be a limiting factor for me right now. When doing flat spins, I'm not moving very fast at all and I am not the least freaked about getting the backside part of those spins! Moving fast and trying to get the backside pressed move done? Especially with my sketchy toe side control? Yeah, there is definitely some fear involved there! I've scorp'd several times, but only caught my heel edge and did a back 'O the head slam twice! _Those_ hurt way more than the scorpion's did!


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## Donutz (May 12, 2010)

I'm currently trying to learn backside butters, and having problems getting the rotation going. I'm pretty sure my problem is that when I pull up the nose, my weight tends to be heelside i.e. I'm leaning a bit back. When trying to rotate to toeside, that obviously creates an immediate problem.

Reason I think this is the issue is because if I just do spins without lifting the nose, I have no problem at all.


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## stan_darsh (Mar 10, 2013)

it may just be that you guys are more comfortable turning frontside... i have more difficulty going frontside, as backside is what's naturally carried over for me from skateboarding. maybe do lots of backside tricks? get your bs 180s dialed in off sidehits, small kickers etc? and i'll take the same advice for my frontside stuff, haha!


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## ShredLife (Feb 6, 2010)

if you're not already, look uphill.


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## chomps1211 (Mar 30, 2011)

:yahoo: :yahoo: Made it alla way round and then some today!!! I even managed to link 3 nose roll 360's for a full 1080!!!! It's not very fluid yet, but man did it feel good the first time I held that press all the way around! 


....and nope! You guys were right. It Wasn't done on the Rome after I changed the centering of the bindings. I Did it on my NS Proto with the setup I've been riding all along. :dunno: :thumbsup:


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## ItchEtrigR (Jan 1, 2012)

thats *impressive* :thumbsup::thumbsup: given your ultra wide 24" stance, must have been a bitch to hold that press... :bowdown:


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## chomps1211 (Mar 30, 2011)

ItchEtrigR said:


> thats *impressive* :thumbsup::thumbsup: given your ultra wide 24" stance, must have been a bitch to hold that press... :bowdown:


???
I'm a little confused by that. I was under the impression that a wider stance made pressing the board easier. Am I mistaken about that? I also thought a wide stance was better for general balance and stability, no?


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## 24WERD (May 9, 2012)

wide is all relative to the person.


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## ItchEtrigR (Jan 1, 2012)

chomps1211 said:


> ???
> I'm a little confused by that. I was under the impression that a wider stance made pressing the board easier. Am I mistaken about that? I also thought a wide stance was better for general balance and stability, no?



more exaggerated press yeh, easier? dunno I find it a downright chore on a 24"+

as for balance & stability, yeh I agree, but its a lot harder work shifting your weight nose or tail and a bitch on older knees especially with those aggressive duck angles you rock, which is why I think its impressive...


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## a4h Saint (Jan 24, 2013)

Jed's got some good butter trick tips on snomie. Glad to see you got it down!:thumbsup: What is this "Got Wood" video? 

EDIT: NVM on the got wood... pinewood derby...ftw!


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## a4h Saint (Jan 24, 2013)

snowklinger said:


> try doing backside nose rolls.
> 
> slowing that down can become what you are looking for.
> 
> I find a little session of nose rolling down a slope before I start to actually butter to be helpful to get the muscle memory and board flex realigned.


DANG! If you were to screw that up while having a bit of speed.... especially with no helmet....headache/concussion anyone?


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