# Best ice board???



## Bauba (Jan 16, 2013)

What's the best board for icy and hard packed crap? Name, type, etc. Go. Especially womens boards.


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## sheepstealer (Aug 19, 2009)

Bit of a broad question but you could always try LibTech or GNU. Look for magne-traction technology. I'll let someone else recommend a specific women's board in this department - I only know that magne-traction is the bees knees if you're looking for edge hold.

From a more personal standpoint I've always had great success with Rome. I ride the northeast and am accustomed to icy and hard packed crap. Not to mention Rome is based in VT, which makes me think they know how to design boards to handle icy northeast winters.


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## poutanen (Dec 22, 2011)

Effective edge is what you want for hardpack, this is why racers, alpine boarders, and carvers use a board shape with a MUCH longer effective edge than us. I know some guys love the mange-traction, frostbite edges, etc. but I have yet to see any racers win on boards with bumps in the edges. :blink:

So ultimately, if you want to stick with a traditional board, look for something with blunted tips.

My board is a 160 and has over 140 cm of effective edge, while most 160 cm boards have somewhere from 120-125 cm effective edge.


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## cocolulu (Jan 21, 2011)

Rossignol Diva, Rossignol Frenemy, Roxy Eminence, GNU B-Pro, Smokin Vixen

Those are just some boards with magnetraction...

Then maybe Arbor Push or Arbor Cadence.


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## wernersl (Dec 28, 2011)

cocolulu said:


> Rossignol Diva, Rossignol Frenemy, Roxy Eminence, GNU B-Pro, Smokin Vixen
> 
> Those are just some boards with magnetraction...
> 
> Then maybe Arbor Push or Arbor Cadence.


Dont discount the Poparrazi in the arbor line. Also with grip tech. Just from reading about it people seem to consider its hold quite good on the hard stuff. Thinking about this one for my wife actually.


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## NSSage (Dec 17, 2012)




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## rideordiechick (Jan 27, 2013)

cocolulu said:


> Rossignol Diva, Rossignol Frenemy, Roxy Eminence, GNU B-Pro, Smokin Vixen
> 
> Those are just some boards with magnetraction...
> 
> Then maybe Arbor Push or Arbor Cadence.



I've never heard of the Smokin Vixen. Have you tried it before? Is it a good board?


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## cocolulu (Jan 21, 2011)

rideordiechick said:


> I've never heard of the Smokin Vixen. Have you tried it before? Is it a good board?


I have never ridden it, but I have always been curious about it. I've never seen Smokin anywhere on demo :huh:

But someone on this forum demo'ed a Smoking snowboard and said it was really squirrely. It's hard to judge without experiencing it yourself.


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## Bauba (Jan 16, 2013)

NSSage said:


>


Whoa! This thing is crazy looking!

Poutanen....is this what you meant by blunt tips??


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## ETM (Aug 11, 2009)

Thats a race board which isbasically effective edge and nothing else. The nose is probably 50mm and the tail 20mm so yes they are VERY blunt.
What poutanen is getting at is dont look at total board length as this the sum of the effective edge,nose and tail length. Look at effective edge length and go for a big one, then to try and keep the overall board length down something a with blunt (short) nose and tail length.


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## poutanen (Dec 22, 2011)

Bauba said:


> Poutanen....is this what you meant by blunt tips??


Well that's at the extreme end of the specturm but essentally yes. Here's a boardercross board shape. The blunted tips are very pronounced. I actually ride a board with this shape all over the mountain and love it. Unfortunately the board below is well over $1000.










Unfortunately I don't know of any "regular" board builders that build with a more boardercross like tip shape. The Jones Mothership seems to have slightly blunted tips, but unfortunately they don't list effective edge on the spec sheets.

Prior, Kessler, Oxess, Virus, etc. all make boardercross shaped boards. Actually oxess has an optional tip design that's halfway between a "freeride" tip and a boardercross/competition tip. They call it "medium" and I wish more companies would start making tips like that.










Model Specifications - Snowboardcross

If you look at the spec sheet on that link, you'll see how long the effective edge is on a boardercross board, also note the long (12.0m or so) sidecut radius. A longer sidecut radius means that you have to lean the board more to get the same actual turn radius out of the board.

For me the experience was quite dramatic the first time I rode a board like this. It requires you to lean a lot more, but it rewards you with a TON of grip on hardpack/ice. I've never felt anything like it before!


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## BigmountainVMD (Oct 9, 2011)

I'm not entirely sure that is what the OP is looking for...

As far as ice tech...

I agree with Magnatraction being the best, IMO. This includes Lib Tech, Gnu and ROXY brands. I'd go Roxy, which is an all womens line. I just got my lady a Roxy Ollie Pop and she loves it. Says it makes riding on ice easier. Neversummer Vario-sidecut and Arbor Griptech are tied for second, and I haven't heard anything amazing about Burton frostbite edges.


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## StrattonRider (Sep 16, 2012)

Bauba said:


> What's the best board for icy and hard packed crap? Name, type, etc. Go. Especially womens boards.


basically anything from GNU or Lib tech (Mervin Manufactures)


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## NightRider2613 (Feb 28, 2012)

Gotta agree with GNU and Lib Tech for Eastern ice. I started riding a LibTech TRS this season and it has been a complete beast on icy days. Magne-traction is pretty amazing, and it has turned days that I would normally just spend in the park into days that I am all over the entire mountain.


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## NSSage (Dec 17, 2012)

Bauba said:


> Whoa! This thing is crazy looking!
> 
> Poutanen....is this what you meant by blunt tips??


Yeah! Its a race board! They are sick to ride, whenever I'm not in the park I'm on one of these. Here is a video of someone riding one Alpine Snowboarding - YouTube ... crazy edge hold on ice on these things its made for speeding through crappy race courses


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## poutanen (Dec 22, 2011)

BigmountainVMD said:


> I'm not entirely sure that is what the OP is looking for...


No but they did ask what the best ice board was! :yahoo:

Even on my Virus, I was out the other day having trouble cutting into some real hardpack... These alpine boarders came along with grins from ear to ear just loving it! 

If I had to ride hardpacked groomers all the time, I'd probably switch to an alpine board.


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## RockSteady (Jan 14, 2013)

For me the experience was quite dramatic the first time I rode a board like this. It requires you to lean a lot more, but it rewards you with a TON of grip on hardpack/ice. I've never felt anything like it before![/QUOTE]


I agree a Boarder X board is obviously gonna be by far the best for high speed ice carving and groomer grip and will blow through crud. Billy goating and such I'm not so sure, never tried it. As far as normal priced boards go for carving and handling the ice and crud. A stiff Cambered board is the most proven weapon for edge grip but I'm definitely feelin the mag traction too. Its like having 4X4 when you need it. The winner of the Rhalves Banzai rocked a Nitro Pantera, he smoked all the Boarder X guys including Shaun Palmer, Nate Holland on their thousands of dollars in custom Boarder X race boards and Wax teching , Banzai is a red bull ballz out race through the iciest, steepest part of some the mountain with a ice mogul infested course. There are so many factors that will determine what type of board is the best for what situation.


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## RockSteady (Jan 14, 2013)

poutanen said:


> If I had to ride hardpacked groomers all the time, I'd probably switch to an alpine board.




"If I had to ride hardpacked groomers all the time"-- I'd be over it


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## poutanen (Dec 22, 2011)

RockSteady said:


> "If I had to ride hardpacked groomers all the time"-- I'd be over it


FAIR ENOUGH! :yahoo:

So far I like my weird board for my local terrain. It's mainly a BX edge shape, but the camber profile has a lifted nose for powder, and the tail lifts enough that it can ride switch no problem.

Carves REALLY well on hardpack, surfs powder with ease (setback, taper, lifted nose), and it's not bad in the trees either. It's not for everybody though...


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## RockSteady (Jan 14, 2013)

poutanen said:


> FAIR ENOUGH! :yahoo:
> 
> So far I like my weird board for my local terrain. It's mainly a BX edge shape, but the camber profile has a lifted nose for powder, and the tail lifts enough that it can ride switch no problem.
> 
> Carves REALLY well on hardpack, surfs powder with ease (setback, taper, lifted nose), and it's not bad in the trees either. It's not for everybody though...


Sounds like a sick board, I'd like to try something like that. Like you said it's too bad boards like that are sooo expensive


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## rasmasyean (Jan 26, 2008)

I'd go with a magnetraction model. I wouldn't worry about the speed that much unless you're racing. It's reasonable to assume that the serated edge will increase the friction by a tiny amount, but it's totally worth it on the ice. I ride one so I'll say.


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## poutanen (Dec 22, 2011)

RockSteady said:


> Sounds like a sick board, I'd like to try something like that. Like you said it's too bad boards like that are sooo expensive


Yeah there's no need for them to be expensive. Regular board makers could make them, they already do the lifted tip profile, would just need to change the top view of the board to have a more blunted tip and there you go! They shouldn't cost any more or less than a traditional shaped board.

The trouble is the builders who make BX boards also charge retarded rates for their regular tradition shapes (if they make them)... lol

Just measured my board and the front is actually lifted from about 11" back! It's a real gradual rise but that's probably why it's fun in powder. The tail makes contact about 6" from the back.

Just checked my Burton (traditional camber board) and the tip starts to rise about 7" back.


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## TorpedoVegas (Dec 25, 2011)

it's called "snowboarding"....not "iceboarding"... you guys are doing it wrong


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## john doe (Nov 6, 2009)

Carving on ice you want a cambered board with a razor sharp edge. 

General cruising around with mostly skidded turns then I would take magnetraction every time. I ride a Smokin that has magnetraction because of the ice I have to deal with at my local hill.


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## Extremo (Nov 6, 2008)

poutanen said:


> Effective edge is what you want for hardpack, this is why racers, alpine boarders, and carvers use a board shape with a MUCH longer effective edge than us. I know some guys love the mange-traction, frostbite edges, etc. but I have yet to see any racers win on boards with bumps in the edges. :blink:
> 
> So ultimately, if you want to stick with a traditional board, look for something with blunted tips.
> 
> My board is a 160 and has over 140 cm of effective edge, while most 160 cm boards have somewhere from 120-125 cm effective edge.


As an east coast rider, I agree with this completely. Go with camber, a long effective edge, and invest in an edge tuning kit to keep them sharp. You'll want to give your edges extra attention if you're riding ice.

Don't pay any attention to extra contact point/MTX gimmicks. The benefits are debatable and the hassle of tuning them isn't worth it IMO. A full, dialed in straight edge is what you're looking for.


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## Oldman (Mar 7, 2012)

Hey Bauba:

You have heard from a number of the "hard core" boys here on the site. They know of what they speak and their info is solid. Don't know if you are at that end of the spectrum in what you are looking for, but those touting MT are talking a more mainstream board selection. Do remember that on true "ice", that is the stuff you could ice skate on, very little is going to prevent you from washing out. Even MT will let go on this stuff. My pick of what is out there is a camrock profile with MT. It gives you camber under / between your feet for some solid edge hold then rockers out the tip and tail to take the "twitchyness" away. Anything from Rossignol with their Amptek Freestyle or Amptek All Mountain profiles.


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## Extremo (Nov 6, 2008)

Oldman said:


> Hey Bauba:
> 
> You have heard from a number of the "hard core" boys here on the site. They know of what they speak and their info is solid. Don't know if you are at that end of the spectrum in what you are looking for, but those touting MT are talking a more mainstream board selection. Do remember that on true "ice", that is the stuff you could ice skate on, very little is going to prevent you from washing out. Even MT will let go on this stuff. My pick of what is out there is a camrock profile with MT. It gives you camber under / between your feet for some solid edge hold then rockers out the tip and tail to take the "twitchyness" away. Anything from Rossignol with their Amptek Freestyle or Amptek All Mountain profiles.


I get what you're saying. Camber boards do have that engaging feel that RCR profiles eliminate. But the RCR profile has serious bite at high speeds and deep angles. Enough to throw you to the ground if you hit it hard enough. You can overcome the twitchy feel of camber with better edge transitions but you can't overcome the edge bite of rc.


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## Efilnikufesin (Oct 8, 2011)

cocolulu said:


> Rossignol Diva, Rossignol Frenemy, Roxy Eminence, GNU B-Pro, Smokin Vixen
> 
> Those are just some boards with magnetraction...
> 
> Then maybe Arbor Push or Arbor Cadence.


One of my riding friends hated the Cadence on ice, hooked her up with last year's Rome Vinyl and so far she loves it, even in more sketchy conditions.

Though sometimes it is all how you tackle it, sometimes you just have to point the board downhill dig the edge in and go. Speed checking too much on ice can be your worst enemy.


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## sb60 (Oct 5, 2010)

I have the Roxy envi rocker 2C. It's been very good on our icy runs this winter. Held and edge when everyone was skidding out and complaining. Good on powder and other conditions as well. I think the eminence is similar. Roxy boards are pretty light too.


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## BigmountainVMD (Oct 9, 2011)

Extremo said:


> Don't pay any attention to extra contact point/MTX gimmicks. The benefits are debatable and the hassle of tuning them isn't worth it IMO. A full, dialed in straight edge is what you're looking for.


Benefits are debatable? :dizzy: I don't even know where to start with this...

Rather that going on a rant, I'll just say that there is a reason you use a serrated bread knife on crusty bread and not a straight edge. HOWEVER, if you sharpen your knives all the time, you will be fine, but unless you are an iron chef, that doesn't happen, so you use a serrated knife.

Same with boards... most people are going to take their board to get tuned once or twice a season and that is it. That is where the magnatraction (MTX) shines because it works well even when the edges get dulled up a bit.

In fact, this is why I think magnatraction works better than most other brands grip tech. From my experience, MTX/BTX boards still have good hold even when they haven't been sharpened. Other brands I have ridden will get noticeably less grippy at the end of the season.

As for tuning being more difficult... there is not a single thing you would do differently, except on MTX boards where you would simply need a shorter file. That's it. If you freehand it like a boss, than you just adjust the file angle to get in-between the waves. Extremely simple. Not to mention the troughs in the wave pattern will be much sharper anyways since they are partially protected by the peaks.

OP, you asked for female specific, ice gripping snowboards. I again will say Roxy or GNU and add in the Niche Minx snowboard... all very eco friendly brands as well.


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## Extremo (Nov 6, 2008)

BigmountainVMD said:


> Benefits are debatable? :dizzy: I don't even know where to start with this...
> 
> Rather that going on a rant, I'll just say that there is a reason you use a serrated bread knife on crusty bread and not a straight edge. HOWEVER, if you sharpen your knives all the time, you will be fine, but unless you are an iron chef, that doesn't happen, so you use a serrated knife.
> 
> ...


And I'll point out that razor blades are straight. As someone who rides ice almost exclusively, a sharp edge that maintains full contact with the surface is better than a serrated edge that has only 7 points in contact with the surface.


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## guharon (Mar 4, 2012)

Benefits of mange-traction is not debatable. I was blown away after trying a board with it - it is in no way a gimmick.


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## NightRider2613 (Feb 28, 2012)

All I can say is that after riding an MTX board this entire season on some of the most wicked Eastern hardpack and ice that you could imagine, I am never riding anything else. There is definitely no gimmick with it in my experience, just excellent grip in the bullshit conditions that we get to enjoy on the right coast. For example, about two weeks ago we had snow followed by rain, and then temps plummeted at my local hill, which created an instant sheet of ice. Normally I would have just ridden park that day but I decided to put my Lib Tech to the test instead. The thing held up like a beast and definitely saved my ass when I was going down a double black run and the back end got sketchy due to the conditions. 

I'm sure a super sharp razor edge is awesome for ice, I just don't think that I would feel like tuning that much though.:dunno:
As for the MTX, I have ridden it almost 40 days so far this season and the grip is still as good as the first time I took it out.


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## poutanen (Dec 22, 2011)

guharon said:


> Benefits of mange-traction is not debatable. I was blown away after trying a board with it - it is in no way a gimmick.





BigmountainVMD said:


> Benefits are debatable? :dizzy: I don't even know where to start with this...


It's 100% debatable because as far as I know there is no objective data to support the serrated edge design.

Remember that ALL race boards are cambered, straight (non-serrated) edges. ALL OF THEM! If they gripped better on ice/hardpack, wouldn't the racers use them by now? These are the guys that are doing twice the speeds we are, cornering with much higher cornering forces.

People can claim they've had good experiences with it, but I have yet to see objective data.


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## timmytard (Mar 19, 2009)

RockSteady said:


> Sounds like a sick board, I'd like to try something like that. Like you said it's too bad boards like that are sooo expensive


You just have to search better, they're out there. 

Try & find a Palmer, I've owned more than 100 boards in 25 years.

The Palmers I just bought, hold an edge better than any board I've ever had.
The 2nd best, was a Palmer I had about 8 years ago, That's why I grabbed these.

I'm not saying they're the absolute best available, but I'm not going to drop a grand on a board.

I have a Skate Banana with Magna-traction, granted there are more suitable boards with Magna-traction than the Banana.

The Palmers' that I own, hands down crush Magna-traction. I could cut you in half if you were laying down in front of me. 
Other than maybe my binding catching on your intestines, I don't even think I'd even feel a bump.hmy:

I have a brand new Heritage, which is my go to stick. 
Most of the time I bring the Heritage & the Palmer. 
75% of the time I ride the Heritage cause it's more flexible/fun, but it doesn't even come close to the trench I can lay with Palm. 

Just got Ride RFL's (Real Fuckin' Light) 
They could have been called Ride SAF(Stiff As Fuck) because combined with the Titanium Channel, I can almost do a carve on hard pack like hard boot guys can do. But only on my toe-side edge for reason?:dunno:

I have no idea where you live:dunno: but I just sold the board on the right to a guy in Minnesota, who already owns one & has been looking for another.
For $350.
How's the ice in Minnesota? 

It's hard to use my Craigslist powers over such great distances............

wait a sec.... http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/16/Fr-voila.ogg
palmer snowboard mint

A virtually brand new Titanium Channel for $200 bucks...:bowdown:
The 3 I just bought, all had the original price tags still on them.
$799, in 2004

This is the exact board I have, only in a 56 not a 64.
From what I can tell, if it has only been ridden once. This is a smokin' deal.
Snowboards don't go bad like fruit. Mine are fuckin' fresh:thumbsup:
They only made 2 sizes, one for girls(& skinny fairy boys) & one for boys(& big amazon bitches)

So hopefully you fit into the petite side of the fairer sex, (no offense if you are the latter) Don't worry if you are, cause I have a 164 for ya

You want edge hold? Buy this board.


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## BigmountainVMD (Oct 9, 2011)

I'll agree that a sharp, straight edge, camber deck will have more grip on ice than a serrated edge...

But if that edge dulls, OR you want any type of hybrid camber in your setup, than some sort of serrated grip tech is in order. There is a reason that Arbor has griptech, NS has vario, Mervin has magnatraction, and Burton has frostbite... they all needed something to add grip on their hybrid camber boards.

Unless the OP wants to race or BX, then I think a better option would be a hybrid camber setup w/ some sort of griptech.


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## BigmountainVMD (Oct 9, 2011)

Extremo said:


> And I'll point out that razor blades are straight. As someone who rides ice almost exclusively, a sharp edge that maintains full contact with the surface is better than a serrated edge that has only 7 points in contact with the surface.


I will agree that you can travel faster on hardpack on a sharpened cambered deck, but if you don't want to sharpen your edges every week, then it will not hold true.

I just think we are not thinking about the needs of the OP, telling him/her to go pick up a womens racing board.


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## Bauba (Jan 16, 2013)

rasmasyean said:


> I'd go with a magnetraction model. I wouldn't worry about the speed that much unless you're racing. It's reasonable to assume that the serated edge will increase the friction by a tiny amount, but it's totally worth it on the ice. I ride one so I'll say.


I actually rode a Gnu B-pro, granted only 1 run, but I felt like it almost caught too much when I didnt want it too? Could that have been the possible friction you're talking about? Come t think of it, it did kind of feel like the friction you feel when using a serrated knife. Maybe I would've gotten used to it if I'd ridden it longer??


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## BigmountainVMD (Oct 9, 2011)

Bauba said:


> I actually rode a Gnu B-pro, granted only 1 run, but I felt like it almost caught too much when I didnt want it too? Could that have been the possible friction you're talking about? Come t think of it, it did kind of feel like the friction you feel when using a serrated knife. Maybe I would've gotten used to it if I'd ridden it longer??


It is totally weird at first, I agree. And I feel you will notice it more when skidding, than with carving. My first time on a magnatraction board I went to slide to a stop on a decent incline and I stopped so quick I almost went over my board and face first down the hill.

Not to mention I was coming from a 166 camber Arbor A-frame (stiff carving deck), so I should have been really used to massive amounts of edge hold... but for some reason when I hopped on a 162ish Lib tech TRS... I found it to grip much better.


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## Bauba (Jan 16, 2013)

BigmountainVMD said:


> I will agree that you can travel faster on hardpack on a sharpened cambered deck, but if you don't want to sharpen your edges every week, then it will not hold true.
> 
> I just think we are not thinking about the needs of the OP, telling him/her to go pick up a womens racing board.


First off, you guys are ALL awesome! All the answers on this thread are exactly what I was looking for. You're so right that picking up a womens racing board wouldn't be the best thing for me. I'm not racing anytime soon....really all I want is control in crappy conditions. So, more traditional boards are likely gonna be way more my speed. Thanks for watching out for me

Also though, part of the reason I asked the question was because I wanted to better understand all of what's out there and the mechanics of HOW it all works in hardpack and ice. You have all nailed it! Effective edges, the serrated-ness of MXT, frequency of tuning traditionally cambered boards ect. I LOVE suggestions, but I also like to know WHY people suggest (and like) what they do. You all couldn't have done a better job of giving me exactly what I was trying to ask for. Thanks!!


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## BigmountainVMD (Oct 9, 2011)

Yeah the argumentative forum environment can actually provide some pretty good information if you are willing to sift through it all!


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## Leo (Nov 24, 2009)

Magnetraction is meant for Rocker or Hybrid Rocker boards.

Having Magnetraction on a cambered board is overkill and will bite more than it already does. I believe, don't quote me on this though, that is the very reason why Rossignol reduces the magnetraction on their boards. They have camber between the bindings.

Also, Magnetraction has a ton of edge hold. Putting that on a racing board (usually cambered right?) would slow them down.

I don't care what anyone says. Nothing grips better than Magnetraction out of all the boards I've tested. Even compared to sharp traditional cambered boards.

The problem is, it does grip too much at times. Detuning is usually in order.

But if you want to talk about speed and good enough edge hold, put me on a cambered board with sharp edges and I'll race you on your Magnetraction board.


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## RockSteady (Jan 14, 2013)

Leo said:


> Magnetraction is meant for Rocker or Hybrid Rocker boards.
> 
> Having Magnetraction on a cambered board is overkill and will bite more than it already does. I believe, don't quote me on this though, that is the very reason why Rossignol reduces the magnetraction on their boards. They have camber between the bindings.
> 
> ...


This question really needs more specifics to get a good answer. (too many different types of ice)


I have to agree with you Leo, especially at slower speeds, like billy goating, I've never felt full board grip like mag especially without daily edge tuning. 
Mag can put on the breaks and that can be useful when your looking to make your edge grip a little more grippy. There are a lot of situations, like some types of traversing, you might think mag might slow you down but instead it actually keeps such a hold on ice it can enable you to keep a much higher tighter line with more stability helping you get to exactly where you want to be. It's like having a little 4X4 built in. Now if your lookin for a race car like a Ferrari and you just wanna fly with control and pin point edge accuracy on crud and hard pack I want camber. 

Though like every other sport that gets into variable types of terrain like snowboarding does, every situation is gonns require a different type of precise tool. 

For example: Even though for its own type of specifice terrain each type of race car is the fastest, they can in no way really compete when put up against each other cause each type of terrain or multiple type terrain course will require a very specific type of tool for maximum speed. 
I'm not gonna bring a rally car to formula one race, I'm not gonna bring a Baja race truck to a drifting completion and I'm not gonna take a drag car to rock crawling competition. 

We all want to know what the best board is for this and that but it's complicated cause the reality is that unless you can say the EXACT type of terrain and snow types you are talking about and unfortunately with just the term "ice" doesn't do that. Ice can is a VERY broad term when it comes to winter mountain terrain one might encounter.


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## freshy (Nov 18, 2009)

One point I haven't seen in this thread is that maybe a razor sharp straight edge racing board would be better on ice then MTX but that would also mean the potential of catching an edge would exponentially go up whereas a MTX even with razor sharp edges would still be more forgiving when it comes to catching. It's just the nature of MTX.
Plus it's not like it's icy groomers all winter, I'm sure you guys get some pow here and there plus I'm also sure parks exist out east. I don't see why it's advisable to get a board that is good at one thing when you can get a board that is still above average on ice and can ride over the whole mountain.


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## freshy (Nov 18, 2009)

Leo said:


> Magnetraction is meant for Rocker or Hybrid Rocker boards.
> 
> Having Magnetraction on a cambered board is overkill and will bite more than it already does. I believe, don't quote me on this though, that is the very reason why Rossignol reduces the magnetraction on their boards. They have camber between the bindings.
> 
> ...


My Darkseries is cambered with MTX and I love it. It's not overkill IMO because it has saved me from wiping out many times when you hit an unexpected patch of ice. For the record I love it when it's freshly sharpened, I don't know what your going on about too much grip as I feel like it's easy enough to control how much edge you want to dig in, can't think of any situation where you want to have less grip except if you ride rails (which I don't).


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## RockSteady (Jan 14, 2013)

freshy said:


> One point I haven't seen in this thread is that maybe a razor sharp straight edge racing board would be better on ice then MTX but that would also mean the potential of catching an edge would exponentially go up whereas a MTX even with razor sharp edges would still be more forgiving when it comes to catching. It's just the nature of MTX.
> Plus it's not like it's icy groomers all winter, I'm sure you guys get some pow here and there plus I'm also sure parks exist out east. I don't see why it's advisable to get a board that is good at one thing when you can get a board that is still above average on ice and can ride over the whole mountain.



Well if your goin turbo on a camber race board hopefully you took the time to develop the skills first. I've had mag in fast slop conditions dig in too much and snag too in variable snow conditons.A sharp Mag can definitely send you into nastiness if your not careful just like a sharp cambered edge


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## scotty100 (Apr 3, 2012)

Leo said:


> Magnetraction is meant for Rocker or Hybrid Rocker boards.
> 
> Having Magnetraction on a cambered board is overkill and will bite more than it already does. I believe, don't quote me on this though, that is the very reason why Rossignol reduces the magnetraction on their boards. They have camber between the bindings.
> 
> ...


Aside from Rossi, are there any other companies out there who put magnetraction on a camrock profile?


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## RockSteady (Jan 14, 2013)

scotty100 said:


> Aside from Rossi, are there any other companies out there who put magnetraction on a camrock profile?


I don't know for sure, Jones, but it works great on Rossi's


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## scottb7 (Nov 19, 2012)

rome

not sure what it does?!

QUICKRIP SIDECUT

Advanced sidecut geometry giving a short playful feel at slower speeds and a longer fast, stable feel at higher speeds. The Mid-Board contact points end the running length at slow speeds and add grip at high speeds.


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## binarypie (Nov 29, 2009)

Proper maintenance will make the largest difference regardless of how many contact points your edge has.


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## Oldman (Mar 7, 2012)

I believe the YES PYL is a board with camrock & their version of MT. YES may have other boards in their lineup with the same offering.


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## Extremo (Nov 6, 2008)

binarypie said:


> Proper maintenance will make the largest difference regardless of how many contact points your edge has.


Yeah I'm going to say the same. As the edges get dull MTX may possibly have the advantage, I'm not sure, I've never taken the time to compare. But both edge profiles out of the box and freshly tuned I coulnd't feel a difference. Both edges, sharp, grip more than enough.


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## vknyvz (Jan 23, 2013)

it all comes down to maintenance and it doesn't matter what your board's profile is, nope this is not my personal opinion rather a lab test, 

check it out here
Snowboard Edge Test - Ice Breakers - The-House.com

also i just picked up a board Never Summer Cobra man it holds ice like it is nothing!!


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## Extremo (Nov 6, 2008)

vknyvz said:


> it all comes down to maintenance and it doesn't matter what your board's profile is, nope this is not my personal opinion rather a lab test,
> 
> check it out here
> Snowboard Edge Test - Ice Breakers - The-House.com
> ...


Pretty much the same conclusion I've come too.


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## wernersl (Dec 28, 2011)

Extremo said:


> Pretty much the same conclusion I've come too.


Same here. When I first got my Raptor I didnt touch my edges and it held up ok on ice. After a trip down FireBreak at Heavenly I had some edge repairs to make (thanks to the massive rocks on that line). Anyway, cut my edges at 89 degrees and holy hell...grips ice like no tomorrow. Couldnt believe the difference that made. Almost had to relearn how to ride that thing!


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## RockSteady (Jan 14, 2013)

wernersl said:


> Same here. When I first got my Raptor I didnt touch my edges and it held up ok on ice. After a trip down FireBreak at Heavenly I had some edge repairs to make (thanks to the massive rocks on that line). Anyway, cut my edges at 89 degrees and holy hell...grips ice like no tomorrow. Couldnt believe the difference that made. Almost had to relearn how to ride that thing!


If you hit Fire Break last year, god bless your board, your lucky it's alive...I destroyed 2 boards last year trying to ride in the trees. Worst year ive seen in Tahoe in my 12 years up here


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## poutanen (Dec 22, 2011)

vknyvz said:


> it all comes down to maintenance and it doesn't matter what your board's profile is, nope this is not my personal opinion rather a lab test,
> 
> check it out here
> Snowboard Edge Test - Ice Breakers - The-House.com


Unfortunately they didn't test a regular straight edged board (that I saw) in that article, just the various edge techs vs each other.


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## wernersl (Dec 28, 2011)

RockSteady said:


> If you hit Fire Break last year, god bless your board, your lucky it's alive...I destroyed 2 boards last year trying to ride in the trees. Worst year ive seen in Tahoe in my 12 years up here


That was early January this year! Not much fresh left when we went down. Took a nice couple of gouges, but that base is really strong. Nothing down to the core, thankfully.


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## Extremo (Nov 6, 2008)

poutanen said:


> Unfortunately they didn't test a regular straight edged board (that I saw) in that article, just the various edge techs vs each other.


They tested the Ride DH which is straight edge camber. If that's what you meant.


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## Hurricane (Jan 5, 2010)

john doe said:


> Carving on ice you want a cambered board with a razor sharp edge.
> 
> General cruising around with mostly skidded turns then I would take magnetraction every time. I ride a Smokin that has magnetraction because of the ice I have to deal with at my local hill.


I have to agree you need to look for something with camber, rockers are no fun on ice. I ride the same place as john doe, Missouri, and we deal with ice on a regular basis. John Doe I saw you out at HV Friday night, recognized your board.


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## poutanen (Dec 22, 2011)

Extremo said:


> They tested the Ride DH which is straight edge camber. If that's what you meant.


Ah my bad, I was looking at the edge tech section of the chart and "radial" didn't stick out as "traditional" to me...


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## BigmountainVMD (Oct 9, 2011)

binarypie said:


> Proper maintenance will make the largest difference regardless of how many contact points your edge has.


Totally agree, but the issue is how much do you want to tune? Some of us are religious about waxing and tuning, so it is not as big of a deal. If you only wax your base and sharpen your edges once a season, like many people, having MTX and an extruded base is the perfect cocktail for care free shredding.



Extremo said:


> Yeah I'm going to say the same. As the edges get dull MTX may possibly have the advantage, I'm not sure, I've never taken the time to compare. But both edge profiles out of the box and freshly tuned I coulnd't feel a difference. Both edges, sharp, grip more than enough.


This is where I've felt the difference in MTX vs other edge tech. My C2BTX T. Rice gripped almost as hard on day 30 as day 1 w/o any sharpening. My NS Proto most certainly had less hold after 10 days than it did on day 1. It just pushed me to sharpen more frequently, but when I did, it held like a dream.



vknyvz said:


> it all comes down to maintenance and it doesn't matter what your board's profile is, nope this is not my personal opinion rather a lab test,
> 
> check it out here
> Snowboard Edge Test - Ice Breakers - The-House.com
> ...


That is the most bullshit test I have ever seen, and to call it a "lab" test is insulting to the science community. Different riders = different speed out of the slingshot, different bindings = varying levels of edge control, and WTF does a flat 180 or butter have to do with edge hold? If you look at the video, half of them can't even stand up and are falling all over the place.

They should have tested the same way they test climbing shoe rubber. Take a piece of the rubber, but a standarized weight on it, and place it on a given material (fake rock or whatever). Then increase the angle of the rock face and the rubber with the highest coefficient of friction can withstand the steepest angle.

Same would for for the edge tech. Make a mini version of each edge and profile... like a foot wide... and mount it to 2 parallel runners (to keep the edge at a given angle) and attach to an ice block. Add weight to the edge and increase the incline of the ice block until the edge begins to slide down the runners/ice block. Whichever edge does not slide at the steepest angle would have the greatest edge hold.

I'm willing to bet that a camber profile would win initially... but if this was a lab, the results would have to be reproducible. Perform the same test 1000 times... 5000 times... to replicate riding on an edge for a week or whatever, then you would see the edges getting a bit more dull and I think the MTX would hold better. 

Something else I've been thinking about in terms of edges dulling...

On a smooth edge, pressure from the weight is being distributed over the whole edge... so a certain pressure on every given point of the edge. With MTX, you have 7 contact points, so more pressure is being put on each point (pressure from the non-contact troughs is being placed on the peaks), so as the edges begin to dull, there is more pressure pushing those points into the ice, thus better grip. If I'm not mistaken, the formula for friction on a given point is F=u*N, where u = the coefficient of friction, same for all edges made of the same metal, and N = the amount of perpendicular force (to the ice) at that point. N would be less on a camber board because the force from a given weight would be less for every point in contact with the ice. N would be greater on an MTX board, because the force from the troughs would be placed on the peaks, therefore increasing their friction... or edge hold. Every point on the board can withstand a certain amount of force pushing it down the ice, and that amount of force is reduced as the edges get more dull, but increased as the force perpendicular to the ice increases (in other words, the force pushing the edge INTO the ice). With the greater amounts of force perpendicular to the ice on the 7 MTX contact points vs. the camber deck, it increases the threshold amount of force the edge can handle before it is pushed down the ice.

Now that is some fucking hypothesizing worthy of scientific laboratory study.


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## Extremo (Nov 6, 2008)

BigmountainVMD said:


> On a smooth edge, pressure from the weight is being distributed over the whole edge... so a certain pressure on every given point of the edge. With MTX, you have 7 contact points, so more pressure is being put on each point (pressure from the non-contact troughs is being placed on the peaks), so as the edges begin to dull, there is more pressure pushing those points into the ice, thus better grip. If I'm not mistaken, the formula for friction on a given point is F=u*N, where u = the coefficient of friction, same for all edges made of the same metal, and N = the amount of perpendicular force (to the ice) at that point. N would be less on a camber board because the force from a given weight would be less for every point in contact with the ice. N would be greater on an MTX board, because the force from the troughs would be placed on the peaks, therefore increasing their friction... or edge hold. Every point on the board can withstand a certain amount of force pushing it down the ice, and that amount of force is reduced as the edges get more dull, but increased as the force perpendicular to the ice increases (in other words, the force pushing the edge INTO the ice). With the greater amounts of force perpendicular to the ice on the 7 MTX contact points vs. the camber deck, it increases the threshold amount of force the edge can handle before it is pushed down the ice.
> 
> Now that is some fucking hypothesizing worthy of scientific laboratory study.


So if you applied this same logic to two contact points like the Arbor provides you'd have more grip than you would with 7. Interesting. 

Anyone have any experience hand tuning the Grip Tech/Frostbite style edges?


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## BigmountainVMD (Oct 9, 2011)

Extremo said:


> So if you applied this same logic to two contact points like the Arbor provides you'd have more grip than you would with 7. Interesting.
> 
> Anyone have any experience hand tuning the Grip Tech/Frostbite style edges?


I'm not sure, as I doubt the 2 contact points are the ONLY points coming in contact with the snow. Like I said it was a hypothesis, and would need testing.

I don't alter my technique when tuning those edges, as a normal file and guide and still sharpen along the contours of the edge. MTX needs a smaller file guide or you just have to do it freehand.


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## wernersl (Dec 28, 2011)

What about Nideckers ultimate grip, or whatever they call it. Looks intriguing and wonder how it performs compared to mag or grip tech...


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## Extremo (Nov 6, 2008)

BigmountainVMD said:


> I'm not sure, as I doubt the 2 contact points are the ONLY points coming in contact with the snow. Like I said it was a hypothesis, and would need testing.
> 
> I don't alter my technique when tuning those edges, as a normal file and guide and still sharpen along the contours of the edge. MTX needs a smaller file guide or you just have to do it freehand.


No you def raise a good point. I'd like to see how the pressure is destributed to the edge from the body. I would assume there is very little pressure utilized between the bindings. I noticed my CRC profile holds a serious edge. Maybe that's because the reverse camber between the feet actually increase edge hold by forcing the flex of the board into the snow.


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