# Slashed up moguls



## KIRKRIDER (Mar 18, 2008)

SO I followed this grop of locals yesterday, down the steepest gullies of Kirkwood...trying to keep up, this guys where at their 65th day of the season yesterday ( my 10th) and riders since 10 years. After a couple of runs my legs where gone...is there a technique to better ride that kind of terrain? I my board at its limits there ( Ride control 155 ) or should I just avoid that terrain ( which is not fun to ride IMO). Yes I've gotten a bit PPow - snob after some epic days there...
My point is...should I challenge myself and ride whatever until I have log-like legsd...lol or stick to better terrain?

what do you guys do?


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## qsilvr99 (Dec 22, 2009)

I did nothing but ride moguls yesterday on blue trails. I hated and feared moguls up to this day, but decided I had to get over the fear and learn how to ride 'em.

I got to where I was making it through the fields ok on the blue runs, so I decided to move to a black run. Not only steeper pitch, but moguls grew from about 1.5-2 feet to 2.5-3.5' feet. Way over my head for already being tired.

Now I'm not so fearful of 'em, and on less steep grades am starting to actually enjoy the challenge. Part of it is learning when to change edges. I initially tried changing on front face of mogul, but remembered reading about changing on the top/backside. The second method seemed to be a lot easier. But no matter how you go about it, moguls are energy draining and I seemed to really have to use my back leg to pivot quick enough which normally is bad form but for me seemed easier.


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## KIRKRIDER (Mar 18, 2008)

I'm not scared..I was used to ride them as a skier, it's just that or a board feels like a lot of work , lot of control to stay on, and not much fun...am I missing something? Again, after ridfing powder everything else feels like fill up...waiting for the next coat...


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## crazyface (Mar 1, 2008)

moguls can be alright. it just adds some challenge. id rather have a run with moguls than a run that is completely hardpack.


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## linvillegorge (Jul 6, 2009)

Moguls aren't fun and I avoid them if I have a choice, but there's times when you have to deal with them. What helps me is to always be looking ahead. You have to find the areas where you can make turns within the terrain and not force it or you'll just wear yourself out.


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## stillz (Jan 5, 2010)

I've learned to enjoy moguls if they're still soft and powdery. It is a lot of work on a board, but that just helps me sleep better that night. Plus it's fun to slash them down to size. They still usually knock me down, so I avoid them if they've frozen into hateful, rock-hard mounds of ice.


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## killclimbz (Aug 10, 2007)

Moguls do get easier with practice and can be fun. I've pretty much become a powder snob but I am definitely not afraid to jump into a mogul field. Generally, once a season I like to jump into a classic mogul run like Drunken Frenchman and blow all the skiers out of there. You get some funny looks when you are smoking a bunch of skiers on a snowboard in a mogul field.


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## KIRKRIDER (Mar 18, 2008)

I can ride them...I just have to agree to leave half of my day worth of leg power right there...ahhhh the beauty of the untraced pow instead....the dream like state of flying on the board...


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## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

killclimbz said:


> Moguls do get easier with practice and can be fun. I've pretty much become a powder snob but I am definitely not afraid to jump into a mogul field. Generally, once a season I like to jump into a classic mogul run like Drunken Frenchman and blow all the skiers out of there. You get some funny looks when you are smoking a bunch of skiers on a snowboard in a mogul field.


Killz, what do you mean by smoking through moguls? I see skiers pumpin, but have never seen a boarder do that...unless its like doing a fresh pillow line. Reason for asking, is that I enjoy doing ocassional moguls...that is working through them...but hey if there is a way to smoke moguls...how?


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## KIRKRIDER (Mar 18, 2008)

to the point as usual 
oneof the differences. I think, is that on a board at the end of a turn under or over a mog you will compress your knees much more than a skier that can spread the legs and balance on the uphill side...saving energy.
WIth a board is like doing 50 squats in a row...jumping from one to the other.
You can't last long. 
Easier if it's powderish..agree.but still a toll on your locked knees.

I'll stick with pow, carving and the occasional jump.





Snowolf said:


> Along with the good advice passed on by other riders here, I would add that getting good at independent leg flexion and extension is also a key component. Using "anticipatory rotation" helps a ton. This is one of the times where pre rotating the upper body before the next turn is a good thing.
> 
> Unless you are running a zipper line straight through the moguls down the fall line (something that can be done if they are not too huge), you will be diagonally traversing them. You need to get good at judging the terrain on the fly and picking good spots to turn that uses the terrain to help you make the turn.
> 
> If you set the right line through them, you can make fairly consistent turns and maintain a fairly constant speed through them. Understand that the path a snowboard travels, even by an expert, will not follow the same path a ski makes. As a result, you will be taking a different line and will be riding over the tops of some of them. This where having that independent flexion and extension of the legs come into play.


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## rasmasyean (Jan 26, 2008)

pawlo said:


> I'm not scared..I was used to ride them as a skier, it's just that or a board feels like a lot of work , lot of control to stay on, and not much fun...am I missing something? Again, after ridfing powder everything else feels like fill up...waiting for the next coat...


Having 65 days of mogul riding in the season definately helps!

But watch them next time and see what they do. Everyone has their own way of riding. Without having investigated the matter in detail, I would presume it has a lot to do with the board size and characteristics as well as skill.

What I've noticed is that boarders who slash through the moguls in a "similar" line of skiiers (i.e. one after the other down the hill) use a technique which resembles counter-rotation. If you watch them closely, you will see that they put their arms out and rotate their bodies in the opposite direction of the board. i.e. board turns clockwise - arms turn counter-clockwise...and vice versa. You still need to anticipate your turning oportunites as mentioned by looking ahead. The more steps ahead, the better. What this body movement does is allow you to rotate your board quicker, especially if you are unwieghted from the terrain or not carving it.

Also, I would figure that this distributes part of the "work" to your body parts so your legs don't do all of it.


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## Guest (Mar 3, 2010)

Snowolf said:


> ... running a zipper line straight through the moguls down the fall line


This should be your next instructional video.


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## rasmasyean (Jan 26, 2008)

I found this. See if this helps. This isn’t the best textbook video but you can make out some parts where his front arm is on the left, while his board nose is on the right…and then his front arm is on the right, while his board nose is on the left.

YouTube - Snowboarding Moguls in Vail, CO


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## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

rasmasyean said:


> I found this. See if this helps. This isn’t the best textbook video but you can make out some parts where his front arm is on the left, while his board nose is on the right…and then his front arm is on the right, while his board nose is on the left.
> 
> YouTube - Snowboarding Moguls in Vail, CO


thanks for posting...have never seen a rider handle moguls like that...going to give it a try.


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## Shadowrat (Feb 8, 2010)

i could blast through moguls on skis. so far, i find them pretty difficult on a board. Every time i try them, i get a little better. And if my experience as a skier holds, the better you get at moguls, the less work you have to do to get through them. When you get more supple and better at absorbing them, you will exert less and have more energy left at the bottom. Plus it's a real workout. the more you do them the stronger you get and the more engery you gain as well.

I'm gonna keep working at them. I think moguls are one of the most fun things on the mountain.


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## Tarzanman (Dec 20, 2008)

Mmm, I sure do love me some powdery moguls.... especially on runs where they have groomed slopes next to them.....
Ride outside the mogul field to pick up some speed and then cut in and see how much air+distance you can get by jumping off the top of one.

It usually all ends in a wipeout+puffy cloud of powder...but much fun is had in the process


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## Phenix_Rider (Dec 24, 2008)

A softer board will help. I got to compare a number of boards last weekend, and there was a huge difference between moguls on the Custom X and the Malolo. The CX wanted to cut through everything, or stay flat across the top, killing my legs. The Malolo was happy to flex in and around the moguls, which took a lot less work to ride. So much easier when the board naturally wants to follow the terrain. My board and the Flying V were somewhere in between.

I don't much like moguls because they take so much energy to ride. And I usually traverse 2-3 before making a turn. If you find the right line, you can ride the tops or the valleys at an angle down the slope. It's just easier to pick out a nice berm to make a turn that way, since we can't bounce off and "zipper" easily.


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## rasmasyean (Jan 26, 2008)

Snowolf said:


> You are on the right track, but this is more accurately anticipatory rotation. Riding "counter rotated" at the wrong time will hinder performance.....
> 
> I get what you are saying and you are correct, but when giving advice, it is important to be clear and accurate in what is actually going on....:thumbsup:


By anticipatory, you mean like the body leads first and the board follows, right?
Maybe a little of both anticipatory and simultaneous depending on the turn?
Because in the closeup in 00:17, it looks like he does a "left hook" pretty much simultaneously with his heel turn...followed by a "backhand" pretty much simultaneously with his toe turn.

But throughout, his rear hand like flails randomly so maybe that's an indication of random "leading" rotation?


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## rasmasyean (Jan 26, 2008)

Phenix_Rider said:


> A softer board will help. I got to compare a number of boards last weekend, and there was a huge difference between moguls on the Custom X and the Malolo. The CX wanted to cut through everything, or stay flat across the top, killing my legs. The Malolo was happy to flex in and around the moguls, which took a lot less work to ride. So much easier when the board naturally wants to follow the terrain. My board and the Flying V were somewhere in between.
> 
> I don't much like moguls because they take so much energy to ride. And I usually traverse 2-3 before making a turn. If you find the right line, you can ride the tops or the valleys at an angle down the slope. It's just easier to pick out a nice berm to make a turn that way, since we can't bounce off and "zipper" easily.


I demoed a Burton Hero. A V-rocker soft board (flex 2), and I did take it through some moguls and found that it does “conform” to the terrain better and it's easier to turn in the bumps. The drawback is that elsewhere, this board doesn’t carve. At just medium speeds in normal and uneven terrain, I felt it took more work to ride and tires me out faster because it doesn’t have that much edge hold. Maybe it’s a matter of getting used to the flex and shape? I dunno. But it’s very forgiving on landing any type of air and spinning and stuff though.


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## rasmasyean (Jan 26, 2008)

wrathfuldeity said:


> thanks for posting...have never seen a rider handle moguls like that...going to give it a try.


Oh yeah? check this one out. It's not as clear but at the end you see him race this skiier in a freestyle course and beat him. It looks like he's like "dancing" or something lol.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LZcfE_wZHkE&feature=response_watch


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## rasmasyean (Jan 26, 2008)

Snowolf said:


> Hahaha...I have a lot of practice before I can do that. I have an intro to moguls just to show some very basic pivot turns and independent flexion and extension. It is a first timer`s intro. The one the Rasmasyean posted is sick and it takes both a lot of practice and flexibility to do that. At 44 I just can`t move quite that "rubbery"......:laugh:


I wish someone videoed me doing those. I’m not as “rubbery” but I’m not quite as fast either I don't think. I can only imagine it looks like I’m doing some ancient greek poses as my arms are pretty straight. LOL

But yeah it takes quite a bit of practice because I can only do it in one direction somewhat decently. In switch, I can ride most terrains easily but can only do fairly small moguls where I can go slow and think about which side my arms should be. It might be even not timed right. Usually if I wind up in a mogul field, it's by accident...and if it's too hard for switch, I just go regular pass it without "practicing".


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## Phenix_Rider (Dec 24, 2008)

rasmasyean said:


> I demoed a Burton Hero. A V-rocker soft board (flex 2), and I did take it through some moguls and found that it does “conform” to the terrain better and it's easier to turn in the bumps. The drawback is that elsewhere, this board doesn’t carve. At just medium speeds in normal and uneven terrain, I felt it took more work to ride and tires me out faster because it doesn’t have that much edge hold. Maybe it’s a matter of getting used to the flex and shape? I dunno. But it’s very forgiving on landing any type of air and spinning and stuff though.


It doesn't carve bcause it's "scooped" or spoon shaped on the tip and tail. The whole point is that it's a park board. It held ok on greens, but getting any speed on a blue it wouldn't hold.

The Flying V was a much better compromise/every day board. Pretty forgiving but much better hold.


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## TomNZ (Aug 10, 2009)

rasmasyean said:


> Oh yeah? check this one out. It's not as clear but at the end you see him race this skiier in a freestyle course and beat him. It looks like he's like "dancing" or something lol.
> 
> YouTube - james youtube


Sorry to go off topic, but damn he has an unusual style... Flicking back and forth so fast . Kind of mesmerising to watch, haven't seen someone ride like that before.


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## rasmasyean (Jan 26, 2008)

Phenix_Rider said:


> It doesn't carve bcause it's "scooped" or spoon shaped on the tip and tail. The whole point is that it's a park board. It held ok on greens, but getting any speed on a blue it wouldn't hold.
> 
> The Flying V was a much better compromise/every day board. Pretty forgiving but much better hold.


Oh that explains a lot! I did also notice that it was easy to overspin on the ground too. I guess this scoope helps that effect!


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## rasmasyean (Jan 26, 2008)

TomNZ said:


> Sorry to go off topic, but damn he has an unusual style... Flicking back and forth so fast . Kind of mesmerising to watch, haven't seen someone ride like that before.


I bet he would be good at rails. It looks like he's actually doing Fronside to Backside to Frontside, etc. Board slides but on snow. :laugh:

It also looks like he has some sort of alpine-carving like stance. Maybe this helps with moguls.


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## jlm1976 (Feb 26, 2009)

TomNZ said:


> Sorry to go off topic, but damn he has an unusual style... Flicking back and forth so fast . Kind of mesmerising to watch, haven't seen someone ride like that before.


He's doing two things that most people don't do. First, he's moving his weight forward and back on the board through his turns. This is key for the second component, scissoring his legs and independantly extending and compressing them. He's pivoting the board more around the center between the bindings rather than around the front leg like most riders. The movement of his weight aft through the turn is what makes the scissoring so effective. It unloads the nose so he can slide it up the hill while pressuring the tail and sliding it down the hill, giving speed control and a fast turn. As you can see, it makes for a very fast and precise turn which is the key to keeping it going in the bumps. Also, getting the nose unweighted makes it easier to absorb the next bump.
Also, notice how quiet his upperbody is? It moves, but rather than fast, jerky movements like the first video, his is more deliberate. Generally, when someone is moving their upperbody fast and jerky it's to compensate for something not happening in the lower body, in the case of the guy in the first video it's the scissoring of the legs.


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## rasmasyean (Jan 26, 2008)

jlm1976 said:


> Also, notice how quiet his upperbody is?


Huh? That dude is boogying, bro! Look at 02:00. He's like jamming to some serious hardcore tunes! :laugh:


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## AdamBQ (Sep 15, 2009)

If you ride with a boarder who can do well on moguls, something that helped me a lot was just going pretty close behind them and copying their line.

For me, this just helped me not having to worry about where my next turn was or my line, and even though at times I wasn't completely sure/confident of the next turn, I just trusted my buddy, and I always end up tearing down them when I do this.


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## qsilvr99 (Dec 22, 2009)

I was at mountain creek on Sunday and was attempting to go down their only double-black which was nothing but 2.5-3 foot deep moguls. I would bite off a few traverses then rest on the side of the trail and try and scope out the next section. As I'm sitting there a skier comes by doing about the same, and a few boarders go by side-slipping the entire way (I called 'em out on it). I'm still chatting with the skier and here comes a boarder just ripping it. Me and the skier are watching with jaws hanging open, dude just cleaned it like it was a regular smooth slope.


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## Guest (Mar 4, 2010)

You can always cheat and just follow the diagonal line that kind of forms in between them haha


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## KIRKRIDER (Mar 18, 2008)

I can see how a flexy reverse cambered board would help there..he's pivoting on the center of the board...ruddering every turn..I keep trying to carve even on moguls..that's my mistake.


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## rasmasyean (Jan 26, 2008)

pawlo said:


> I can see how a flexy reverse cambered board would help there..he's pivoting on the center of the board...ruddering every turn..I keep trying to carve even on moguls..that's my mistake.


Phht...carving on moguls = spectator worthy inverse aerials.


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## KIRKRIDER (Mar 18, 2008)

Heyyy we're discussing technicalities here... 




rasmasyean said:


> Phht...carving on moguls = spectator worthy inverse aerials.


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