# Help my toes



## stickz (Feb 6, 2013)

So I'm on day 25 with my Salomon synapse double boas and my toes are still touching my liners. My question is this. After 25 days should my liners have packed out enough to not do this? They're a 8.5 and I wear a 9.5 sneaker. Without the liner my toes don't come close to hitting the edge of my boots. Should I just wait longer or look into buying bigger liners. I've already been to a boot fitter and they did everything they could last year to stretch out my liners but fuck my toes are sore. 

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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

stickz said:


> So I'm on day 25 with my Salomon synapse double boas and my toes are still touching my liners. My question is this. After 25 days should my liners have packed out enough to not do this? They're a 8.5 and I wear a 9.5 sneaker. Without the liner my toes don't come close to hitting the edge of my boots. Should I just wait longer or look into buying bigger liners. I've already been to a boot fitter and they did everything they could last year to stretch out my liners but fuck my toes are sore.



Hi Stickz,

Please post up your barefoot length and width measurements so we can get you some hopefully helpful info.


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## stickz (Feb 6, 2013)

Wiredsport said:


> Hi Stickz,
> 
> Please post up your barefoot length and width measurements so we can get you some hopefully helpful info.


Word let me get those measurements tonight when I'm home and can use the proper measuring tape. 

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## kriegs13 (Nov 28, 2016)

in multiple past experiences of terribly painful toes when riding; it has been a boot too large, not small. it wasn't the liner being too small and pressing in to my toes, but my heel not being held in and my toes shoving forward on heel side turns causing almost unbearable pain.


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## stickz (Feb 6, 2013)

Wiredsport said:


> Hi Stickz,
> 
> Please post up your barefoot length and width measurements so we can get you some hopefully helpful info.


Ok my left foot is 25.7 cm x 10.8cm

Right foot is 25.8cm x 10.9cm

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## stickz (Feb 6, 2013)

kriegs13 said:


> in multiple past experiences of terribly painful toes when riding; it has been a boot too large, not small. it wasn't the liner being too small and pressing in to my toes, but my heel not being held in and my toes shoving forward on heel side turns causing almost unbearable pain.


I've had a hard time with any boot keeping my heel in place. These have done the best job and I've done all I can to help keep them in place but I do feel them lift some and that's when my toes touch the worst for sure. 

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## kriegs13 (Nov 28, 2016)

stickz said:


> I've had a hard time with any boot keeping my heel in place. These have done the best job and I've done all I can to help keep them in place but I do feel them lift some and that's when my toes touch the worst for sure.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk




Well, sounds like your boots are too big! They’re not feeling like they’re packing it because it’s not the liner being too small, your heel lift is causing your toes to jam. I would guess they’re mostly fine when you’re just walking or hanging but hurt pretty quickly when riding. You may also be getting numb points because you’re over tightening to compensate for wiggle room which you trick you in to thinking they’re too small. 

Without heat molding, my boots generally take three to five days to pack out and that’s without being a super aggressive rider. I was in your shoes (boots teehee!) in the past and sizing down solved all of my woes

TL;DR your boots are too big. Follow wired sportzsssss instructions and then get to a shop with the best possible selection, get properly fitted with a general size in mind and try on every boot in your desired stiffness range. Then buy those boots that feel just a hair too small. I’mma shut up now...wired will cover it


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## stickz (Feb 6, 2013)

kriegs13 said:


> Well, sounds like your boots are too big! They’re not feeling like they’re packing it because it’s not the liner being too small, your heel lift is causing your toes to jam. I would guess they’re mostly fine when you’re just walking or hanging but hurt pretty quickly when riding. You may also be getting numb points because you’re over tightening to compensate for wiggle room which you trick you in to thinking they’re too small.
> 
> Without heat molding, my boots generally take three to five days to pack out and that’s without being a super aggressive rider. I was in your shoes (boots teehee!) in the past and sizing down solved all of my woes
> 
> ...


No when I walk they are the worst actually. These are the smallest boots I've worn in 6 years 

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## stickz (Feb 6, 2013)

kriegs13 said:


> Well, sounds like your boots are too big! They’re not feeling like they’re packing it because it’s not the liner being too small, your heel lift is causing your toes to jam. I would guess they’re mostly fine when you’re just walking or hanging but hurt pretty quickly when riding. You may also be getting numb points because you’re over tightening to compensate for wiggle room which you trick you in to thinking they’re too small.
> 
> Without heat molding, my boots generally take three to five days to pack out and that’s without being a super aggressive rider. I was in your shoes (boots teehee!) in the past and sizing down solved all of my woes
> 
> ...


And I actually can't tighten the bottom boa really at all with out them hurting my feet. I try not to tighten them very tight when I do it's worse. I really hope there's a different solution than buying new boots. I went to a proper boot fitter to buy these boots and don't really want to spend more money when these are basically brand new. But that may be the only real solution. 

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## kriegs13 (Nov 28, 2016)

stickz said:


> And I actually can't tighten the bottom boa really at all with out them hurting my feet. I try not to tighten them very tight when I do it's worse. I really hope there's a different solution than buying new boots. I went to a proper boot fitter to buy these boots and don't really want to spend more money when these are basically brand new. But that may be the only real solution.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk




Hmm. I could be entirely wrong then. 


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## stickz (Feb 6, 2013)

When I'm riding it Hurst the worst when I'm tired and being lazy and not really bending my legs much. Normally when I'm tired my knees are sore (no acls) and it starts to become uncomfortable bending very low. It's normally after lunch that I really start to notice it. And sometimes my rear foot which is my left hurts like shit for the first run or two. I normally have them tightened to tight and adjust. 

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## kriegs13 (Nov 28, 2016)

stickz said:


> When I'm riding it Hurst the worst when I'm tired and being lazy and not really bending my legs much. Normally when I'm tired my knees are sore (no acls) and it starts to become uncomfortable bending very low. It's normally after lunch that I really start to notice it. And sometimes my rear foot which is my left hurts like shit for the first run or two. I normally have them tightened to tight and adjust.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk




Weird. That’s almost exactly what I experienced with boots too big. I’ll leave this one to the professionals. 


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

stickz said:


> Ok my left foot is 25.7 cm x 10.8cm
> 
> Right foot is 25.8cm x 10.9cm


Hi Stickz,

25.7 and 25.8 cm are both Mondo 260 or size 8 in snowboard boots. The range for Mondo 260 is 25.6 cm to 26.0 cm so you are a mid range size 8. But 10.8 and 10.9 cm are EEE width at size 8. Only the Burton Ruler Wide is designed for EEE width. 

If you would like to post up images of your measurements I will be happy to have a look and confirm.

https://www.wiredsport.com/width2.JPG


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## stickz (Feb 6, 2013)

Wiredsport said:


> Hi Stickz,
> 
> 25.7 and 25.8 cm are both Mondo 260 or size 8 in snowboard boots. The range for Mondo 260 is 25.6 cm to 26.0 cm so you are a mid range size 8. But 10.8 and 10.9 cm are EEE width at size 8. Only the Burton Ruler Wide is designed for EEE width.
> 
> ...


Yeah wide feet run in the family. I took the liner out of my boots and my foot def has room before it hits the edge of the boot but as soon as the inserts are in my toes become cramped. I left the measuring tape I used at work. I'm not sure how to show you with a picture my measurements. What would you suggest I do about my wide foot problem? 

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## stickz (Feb 6, 2013)

Wiredsport said:


> Hi Stickz,
> 
> 25.7 and 25.8 cm are both Mondo 260 or size 8 in snowboard boots. The range for Mondo 260 is 25.6 cm to 26.0 cm so you are a mid range size 8. But 10.8 and 10.9 cm are EEE width at size 8. Only the Burton Ruler Wide is designed for EEE width.
> 
> ...


So I re measured at home. I put my foot against a wall and marked on my floor where my toe ended. Then I took the two widest points of my foot and measure the distance between the two points. My left foot is 10 1/4" x 4 1/2" I measured it 3 different times and came up with the same result Everytime. I even taped paper to the floor and stepped on it to measure. Same measurements. Sorry about the incorrect measurements before. 

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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

stickz said:


> So I re measured at home. I put my foot against a wall and marked on my floor where my toe ended. Then I took the two widest points of my foot and measure the distance between the two points. My left foot is 10 1/4" x 4 1/2" I measured it 3 different times and came up with the same result Everytime. I even taped paper to the floor and stepped on it to measure. Same measurements. Sorry about the incorrect measurements before.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk


For width please place the inside (medial side) of your foot against a wall. Please then measure from the wall out to the widest point on the lateral (outside) of your foot.

Please post images of this measurement for each foot and for your length measurements. Please show the foot being measured in each.


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## stickz (Feb 6, 2013)

Wiredsport said:


> For width please place the inside (medial side) of your foot against a wall. Please then measure from the wall out to the widest point on the lateral (outside) of your foot.
> 
> Please post images of this measurement for each foot and for your length measurements. Please show the foot being measured in each.


Ok I'll do this later today thanks wired

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## freshy (Nov 18, 2009)

I've been in a similar position a few times where a boot just will not beak in and stop hurting. Sounds like you are simply not in the right boot for your foot. The way I see it you have 2 options, sell them or try to do some modifying of the liner. Honestly your best bet would be to cut your losses and just find some more comfortable boots or risk having sore feet all season. But people have tutorials on how to sand off bits of your liner and other mods if you are stuck with those all season.

Yeah after 25 days you boot should be broke in or pretty friggin close to it.


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

stickz said:


> I've had a hard time with any boot keeping my heel in place. These have done the best job and I've done all I can to help keep them in place but I do feel them lift some and that's when my toes touch the worst for sure.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk


Have you tried insoles which keep your foot where it should be? 
You're probably just not in tbe right boit. Size and width are only two aspects... boot models also vary in their level ro hold a heel back. E.g. Ride hold my feey back very nicely, whereas in same size K2 my feet slip around and crush the toes. Theyre designed differently at the arch, so different feet are held back differently. 
An insole may fix this fwd slipping if you find one which fits your footbed well. If you dont find one, get other boots which fit your foot in general better i.e. no fwd slipping.


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## stickz (Feb 6, 2013)

neni said:


> Have you tried insoles which keep your foot where it should be?
> You're probably just not in tbe right boit. Size and width are only two aspects... boot models also vary in their level ro hold a heel back. E.g. Ride hold my feey back very nicely, whereas in same size K2 my feet slip around and crush the toes. Theyre designed differently at the arch, so different feet are held back differently.
> An insole may fix this fwd slipping if you find one which fits your footbed well. If you dont find one, get other boots which fit your foot in general better i.e. no fwd slipping.


Yeah im using gamechangers

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## stickz (Feb 6, 2013)

Wiredsport said:


> For width please place the inside (medial side) of your foot against a wall. Please then measure from the wall out to the widest point on the lateral (outside) of your foot.
> 
> Please post images of this measurement for each foot and for your length measurements. Please show the foot being measured in each.


Left foot are first two
Right foot are second two

Guess my measurements using a standard tape measure were not accurate































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## stickz (Feb 6, 2013)

Do those pics help?

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## basser (Sep 18, 2015)

idk if this matters but he said the inside of your foot against the wall, not the outside. Just thought i'd point that out.


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## stickz (Feb 6, 2013)

basser said:


> idk if this matters but he said the inside of your foot against the wall, not the outside. Just thought i'd point that out.


Shit I didn't realize I'll have to re do them thanks. I must have been way to high lol. 

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## stickz (Feb 6, 2013)

First two are my left 
Second two are my right 

Hope this helps with. Sold a board so new boots are now an option. Just need to know if I should go 8 or 8.5 Burton ruler wides.






























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## stickz (Feb 6, 2013)

stickz said:


> First two are my left
> Second two are my right
> 
> Hope this helps with. Sold a board so new boots are now an option. Just need to know if I should go 8 or 8.5 Burton ruler wides.
> ...


Didn't know if you wanted inches or not sorry if cm isn't what you wanted. It's basically 10" length and 4.1" wide 

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## stickz (Feb 6, 2013)

Actually add a cm. My ruler leaves out 1cm before it starts measurements. Fucking weird so 25.8cm long 11.2cm wide. Think I'm going to order the ruler wides in an 8

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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

Hi,

It looks like you are overlapping that molding in all measurements. That could be significantly changing the measurements. Please check that and let me know. We really need to get your measurements from a vertical wall.

STOKED!


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## stickz (Feb 6, 2013)

Wiredsport said:


> Hi,
> 
> It looks like you are overlapping that molding in all measurements. That could be significantly changing the measurements. Please check that and let me know. We really need to get your measurements from a vertical wall.
> 
> STOKED!


Ok, I can do that I'll send more pics soon. 

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## stickz (Feb 6, 2013)

Wiredsport said:


> Hi,
> 
> It looks like you are overlapping that molding in all measurements. That could be significantly changing the measurements. Please check that and let me know. We really need to get your measurements from a vertical wall.
> 
> STOKED!


Ok let's hope these are the money shots, I removed the trim from the wall. Also last two pics are of the set up. The last pic you can clearly see that my ruler leaves an entire cm off before starting to count. 

First two left 
Second two right 













































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## stickz (Feb 6, 2013)

Here are close ups since it may be a little fuzzy on Tapatalk.


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

OK, that technique looks fine. I am unable to read the ruler. Please let me know the ruler-adjusted readings from this last group of measurements.


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## stickz (Feb 6, 2013)

Wiredsport said:


> OK, that technique looks fine. I am unable to read the ruler. Please let me know the ruler-adjusted readings from this last group of measurements.


Were you able to see the last set of zoomed in pics? My apologies if they're still fuzzy. 

Adjusted measurements:

Left foot is 26cm long 11.2cm wide.

Right foot is 26.1cm long 10.9cm wide.

Thanks wired. Your help is very much appreciated. 



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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

Hi Stickz,

Based on those measurements you are the lowest length in the range for Mondo 265 (size 8.5 US in snowboard boots). Your width is the largest width in the EEE range for your foot size.

There is only one boot that s designed for EEE width (or any width over E). That is the Burton Ruler Wide. I would highly suggest those for you in size 8.5 (with an immediate heat fit). 

STOKED!


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## stickz (Feb 6, 2013)

Wiredsport said:


> Hi Stickz,
> 
> Based on those measurements you are the lowest length in the range for Mondo 265 (size 8.5 US in snowboard boots). Your width is the largest width in the EEE range for your foot size.
> 
> ...


Awesome thanks wired. I'll buy them today. Would the narrowness of my current 8.5us Salomon synapse be the reason all my discomfort. Mainly toes being smashed into the liner. Does your shop have them in stock and possibly have any black friday deals?

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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

stickz said:


> Awesome thanks wired. I'll buy them today. Would the narrowness of my current 8.5us Salomon synapse be the reason all my discomfort. Mainly toes being smashed into the liner. Does your shop have them in stock and possibly have any black friday deals?
> 
> Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk


Hi Stickz,

We do not carry Burton. Yes, this is almost certainly causing your problem. A boot that is too narrow will have inadequate length at the outer toes do to the arc of the toebox. 

STOKED!


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## stickz (Feb 6, 2013)

Wiredsport said:


> Hi Stickz,
> 
> We do not carry Burton. Yes, this is almost certainly causing your problem. A boot that is too narrow will have inadequate length at the outer toes do to the arc of the toebox.
> 
> STOKED!


That makes sense. I've always sized up due to my wide feet even with normal tennis shoes it's hard to find wide anything other than fucking dress shoes. Ok wired I'll go to Evo since you don't carry them 

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## stickz (Feb 6, 2013)

Wiredsport said:


> Hi Stickz,
> 
> Based on those measurements you are the lowest length in the range for Mondo 265 (size 8.5 US in snowboard boots). Your width is the largest width in the EEE range for your foot size.
> 
> ...


Hi Wired,

How exactly do I heat fit? Is it something I can do at home or do I need to take them to a boot fitter?

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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

stickz said:


> Hi Wired,
> 
> How exactly do I heat fit? Is it something I can do at home or do I need to take them to a boot fitter?
> 
> Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk


Hi,
Here are my best tips:

http://www.snowboardingforum.com/boots/225057-heat-fit-faq-love-your-feet.html


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## stickz (Feb 6, 2013)

Picked up my new boots. The 8.5 gave me horrible ankle pain on the top of my foot. The 9.0 had mild discomfort there but they feel better than any boot ever. Put some green wide superfeet insoles in and got them heat molded. We will see how they do on the hill tomorrow. Also by day the softest boot I've ever owned. Also tried the DC judges, Travis Rice's, the Synapse wides, and 32 lashed. The rulers felt the widest. 

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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

stickz said:


> Picked up my new boots. The 8.5 gave me horrible ankle pain on the top of my foot. The 9.0 had mild discomfort there but they feel better than any boot ever. Put some green wide superfeet insoles in and got them heat molded. We will see how they do on the hill tomorrow. Also by day the softest boot I've ever owned. Also tried the DC judges, Travis Rice's, the Synapse wides, and 32 lashed. The rulers felt the widest.


Hi,

What boot did you pick up?


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## stickz (Feb 6, 2013)

Wiredsport said:


> Hi,
> 
> What boot did you pick up?


Ruler wide 9us

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## stickz (Feb 6, 2013)

Wired thank you so much. First two runs my feet were sore but only the bottom which is normal for the second day of the year. What wasn't sore were my toes or the sides of my feet. After 8 runs I have almost no discomfort, and almost zero heel lift. They are also very loose so I will be able to ratchet them down as the break in. I can't remember my feet ever feeling better. I'll make it a point to meet you some day and buy you a nice steak dinner with lots of whiskey. 

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## unsuspected (Oct 26, 2015)

stickz said:


> Ruler wide 9us
> 
> Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk





stickz said:


> Wired thank you so much. First two runs my feet were sore but only the bottom which is normal for the second day of the year. What wasn't sore were my toes or the sides of my feet. After 8 runs I have almost no discomfort, and almost zero heel lift. They are also very loose so I will be able to ratchet them down as the break in. I can't remember my feet ever feeling better. I'll make it a point to meet you some day and buy you a nice steak dinner with lots of whiskey.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk


Not to be a smartass about it but the Rulers tend to pack out a lot. Just so you know.


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## stickz (Feb 6, 2013)

unsuspected said:


> Not to be a smartass about it but the Rulers tend to pack out a lot. Just so you know.


No worries. The 8.5 made my feet go numb in like 2 min. So I went with the 9.0 which hurt but didn't go numb. If I get 40 days I'll be happy

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## SGboarder (Jun 24, 2012)

stickz said:


> Wired thank you so much. First two runs my feet were sore but only the bottom which is normal for the second day of the year. What wasn't sore were my toes or the sides of my feet. After 8 runs I have almost no discomfort, and almost zero heel lift. They are also very loose so I will be able to ratchet them down as the break in. I can't remember my feet ever feeling better. I'll make it a point to meet you some day and buy you a nice steak dinner with lots of whiskey.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk


Sounds like those boots are still at least half a size too big. I hope you get the 40 days that you target out of them and then consider a smaller size the next time around.


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## stickz (Feb 6, 2013)

Well I have a pair of 8.5 still on the way from Backcountry. I only went to the shop because they were 2 days late. Maybe I'll keep those and send the nines back 

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## stickz (Feb 6, 2013)

stickz said:


> Well I have a pair of 8.5 still on the way from Backcountry. I only went to the shop because they were 2 days late. Maybe I'll keep those and send the nines back
> 
> Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk


Trying the 8.5 tomorrow at Baker 

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## pescadero (Feb 5, 2014)

stickz said:


> So I'm on day 25 with my Salomon synapse double boas and my toes are still touching my liners. My question is this. After 25 days should my liners have packed out enough to not do this? They're a 8.5 and I wear a 9.5 sneaker.


I've got about 30 days on my 2015 Solomon Synapse (wide, lace) boots. 

They're 10 and I wear a 12.5-13 regular shoe.

My toes touched the liner when they were new and are still touching my liners - just like they're supposed to.


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## stickz (Feb 6, 2013)

pescadero said:


> I've got about 30 days on my 2015 Solomon Synapse (wide, lace) boots.
> 
> They're 10 and I wear a 12.5-13 regular shoe.
> 
> My toes touched the liner when they were new and are still touching my liners - just like they're supposed to.


Ok. What's your point?

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## stickz (Feb 6, 2013)

stickz said:


> Trying the 8.5 tomorrow at Baker
> 
> Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk


After 3 days on the 8.5 my feet are starting to feel ok. They are def wide enough, but I fear they are going to be too soft. 

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## pescadero (Feb 5, 2014)

stickz said:


> Ok. What's your point?


The end of your liner where your toes touch (which they should do) should never really pack out - new or old, the tips of your toes should be brushing the end of the liner.


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## stickz (Feb 6, 2013)

pescadero said:


> The end of your liner where your toes touch (which they should do) should never really pack out - new or old, the tips of your toes should be brushing the end of the liner.


My toes were smashed not brushed dude. Totally different 

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## pescadero (Feb 5, 2014)

stickz said:


> My toes were smashed not brushed dude. Totally different


Sounds like the problem was width, not length. 

Smashed from the sides is usually a width problem, smashed on the ends is usually a too large boot problem where the foot is sliding.


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## stickz (Feb 6, 2013)

pescadero said:


> Sounds like the problem was width, not length.
> 
> Smashed from the sides is usually a width problem, smashed on the ends is usually a too large boot problem where the foot is sliding.


Did you read this thread? 

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## pescadero (Feb 5, 2014)

stickz said:


> Did you read this thread?


Yes... and it sounds like you were riding a boot which was both too narrow, and too large - which is definitely a recipe for discomfort.

I was just pointing out that one generally shouldn't expect the toe end area of a boot to pack out.


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## Fielding (Feb 15, 2015)

Sounds like your boot’s essentially too big. Your toes hurt because your foot is sliding forward and your toes are getting smashed into the front. See a fitter. Ideally you bought them someplace that has a fitter. Might be able to rectify this issue with more foam around ankles or under the tongue. There are a handful of ways to lock a heel. If it’s a full size under street shoes then you probably aren’t far off from a good fit. Likely can be corrected. Do it before you lose your toenails. If you do get a black toenail be sure to watch YouTube videos on how to fix it with a paper clip. Seriously. You gotta act fast. You can save your toenail from popping off after it gets crazy hematoma with a hot paper clip.


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