# How different do the Malavitas and Cartels feel?



## smellysell (Oct 29, 2018)

Interesting how subjective this can all be. I have Cartels on an Endeavor Maverick and feel like it over powers them. Never ridden Vitas, so no help there unfortunately. If I can find some highbacks, going to try or Diodes on it this year. 

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## Surgeon (Apr 13, 2020)

Tell me about it... and since the off season’s been so long this year, it’s really easy for many (and I’m really guilty of this) to massively overthink the details. Couple that with the deals that kept pooping up and it’s a bad combination.


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## BurtonAvenger (Aug 14, 2007)

It's like comparing a Gala apple to a Fuji apple. It's so nuanced most people won't notice the difference.


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

I have both. I like Cartels way better. More responsive and cheaper.

Malavitas have the better double take buckles.

I say if you want something more freestyle-oriented (more lateral freedom, softer, a bit of a smaller highback) then Malavita is the better one. If you want all mountain and any board capability then Cartel are great.


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## Surgeon (Apr 13, 2020)

BurtonAvenger said:


> It's like comparing a Gala apple to a Fuji apple. It's so nuanced most people won't notice the difference.


Thanks for the reply, I really appreciate it.



F1EA said:


> I have both. I like Cartels way better. More responsive and cheaper.
> 
> Malavitas have the better double take buckles.
> 
> I say if you want something more freestyle-oriented (more lateral freedom, softer, a bit of a smaller highback) then Malavita is the better one. If you want all mountain and any board capability then Cartel are great.


Thanks for your input.


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

smellysell said:


> Interesting how subjective this can all be. I have Cartels on an Endeavor Maverick and feel like it over powers them. Never ridden Vitas, so no help there unfortunately. If I can find some highbacks, going to try or Diodes on it this year.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


Not sure why you would want to put Diodes on it if you think the Cartels overpowers it...
Diodes are stiffer and waaaaaay more overpowering than Cartels. From the sound of it, seems like you would like Malavitas on that Maverick; which makes sense, it's a pretty perfect match. 

Have tried Malavitas on Landlord, Archetype, Panhandler, Stun Gun... too soft for all of them except for the Stun Gun.


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## Surgeon (Apr 13, 2020)

F1EA said:


> Not sure why you would want to put Diodes on it if you think the Cartels overpowers it...
> Diodes are stiffer and waaaaaay more overpowering than Cartels. From the sound of it, seems like you would like Malavitas on that Maverick; which makes sense, it's a pretty perfect match.
> 
> Have tried Malavitas on Landlord, Archetype, Panhandler, Stun Gun... too soft for all of them except for the Stun Gun.


From the grammar I think he meant the board overpowers the Cartels, not the opposite...


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

Surgeon said:


> From the grammar I think he meant the board overpowers the Cartels, not the opposite...


oh wow. Unless someone likes very very stiff bindings, I can't see any way a Maverick will overpower Cartels...


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## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

Between the two I usually pick Vitas just cause the hammock higback feels nice. If the Cartels have/had it, I wouldn't care as they ride very similar. Both vanilla.


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## Surgeon (Apr 13, 2020)

Nivek said:


> Between the two I usually pick Vitas just cause the hammock higback feels nice. If the Cartels have/had it, I wouldn't care as they ride very similar. Both vanilla.


Thanks a lot. That's what I was expecting and/or hoping for.
Based on the replies so far I'll hold-on, ride what I have for a while and go from there when next season's deals come up (if needed). 
Cheers!


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## drblast (Feb 28, 2017)

I think the reason you hear different takes on the differences between Cartels and Malavitas is because they're so similar when you're riding it's pretty much a toss up and you're getting a very subjective opinion on whatever the reviewer was feeling that day.

Also, the Reflex versions of each always felt softer to me than the EST, but I've never done a direct comparison on the same board. On the reflex Vitas I owned the softness I experienced seemed mostly due to the flex of the mounting disc.

I'd say if you want something softer look at Salomon Districts.


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## Surgeon (Apr 13, 2020)

drblast said:


> I think the reason you hear different takes on the differences between Cartels and Malavitas is because they're so similar when you're riding it's pretty much a toss up and you're getting a very subjective opinion on whatever the reviewer was feeling that day.
> 
> Also, the Reflex versions of each always felt softer to me than the EST, but I've never done a direct comparison on the same board. On the reflex Vitas I owned the softness I experienced seemed mostly due to the flex of the mounting disc.
> 
> I'd say if you want something softer look at Salomon Districts.


I agree. I also expect people’s judgment to be influence by the marketing spiel.
The districts were/are indeed on my radar. I missed out on a great deal on the holograms bit at the moment the districts are really cheap too.
Thanks for the input.


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## Rip154 (Sep 23, 2017)

Cartel strap is stiffer, and really pressures my instep, while I can ride the Vita straps all day. I don't ride either now because of the autocant beds, but using Vita straps on all my solid boards. Theres just less material to compress on the medial side, and that makes all the difference for me having a good day. The highbacks are fine.


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

drblast said:


> I think the reason you hear different takes on the differences between Cartels and Malavitas is because they're so similar when you're riding it's pretty much a toss up and you're getting a very subjective opinion on whatever the reviewer was feeling that day.
> 
> Also, the Reflex versions of each always felt softer to me than the EST, but I've never done a direct comparison on the same board. On the reflex Vitas I owned the softness I experienced seemed mostly due to the flex of the mounting disc.
> 
> I'd say if you want something softer look at Salomon Districts.


Yep. The board matters, but mostly the boots.


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## jstar (Sep 21, 2016)

Biggest difference I notice are the straps. Vita's asym seem to flex more, Cartels feel stiffer. The choice depends on the board you're strapping them to. 

I've done the Super Mission/Vita/Cartel/GenX/ comparison on each my boards in order to find the right pairing. In the end, it's the Vitas that are collecting dust these days, just because I prefer the Cartels, Gen X, and even the Super Missions quite a bit more.

I only use the Vitas on regular width twin(ish) park boards. Anything else, including pow boards, they don't feel responsive enough.


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

jstar said:


> Biggest difference I notice are the straps. Vita's asym seem to flex more, Cartels feel stiffer. The choice depends on the board you're strapping them to.
> 
> I've done the Super Mission/Vita/Cartel/GenX/ comparison on each my boards in order to find the right pairing. In the end, it's the Vitas that are collecting dust these days, just because I prefer the Cartels, Gen X, and even the Super Missions quite a bit more.
> 
> I only use the Vitas on regular width twin(ish) park boards. Anything else, including pow boards, they don't feel responsive enough.


Yeah agree. I prefer Genesis, Cartels or Genesis X on almost any board.


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## GDimac (Nov 19, 2015)

Like @F1EA, I've owned both. The Genies & GenX, currently also (sort of, lol). As many have already mentioned, they're both similar but that stiff Cartel strap def gives it the more responsive feel. Out of all those B binders I've owned, the new Cartel strap is def the stiffest, but the least comfortable imo. Also agree with F1 in that depends on the feel/type of riding you're going for, and board you're pairing with. If leaning more freestyle oriented, prob go Vita. Cartel for All Mtn-ish type focus.

But I've personally frank'd mine the past couple winters. My daily driver right now consists mainly of the newer Cartel baseplate (45% Short-Glass one), Genies highback, with the GenX ankle strap & Gettagrip toe strap. All the parts I like most from B binders, to create an ultra comfortable mid-stiff setup. And I mainly ride boards in the 7+ stiffness range (current quiver for perspective: 54 US Orbit/57 Korua T.Finder+/59 Pencil. Had it paired with a 56 Amplid Penta for majority of the past szn).


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## smellysell (Oct 29, 2018)

F1EA said:


> oh wow. Unless someone likes very very stiff bindings, I can't see any way a Maverick will overpower Cartels...


I don't know, maybe it's just a stiffer board than I like. Guess I'll know after I try it with the Diodes.

I might just not have enough experience to understand what I'm feeling, but the Cartels feel really unresponsive on that board to me. 

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## Surgeon (Apr 13, 2020)

I'm definitely a freestyle rider (park and whole mountain as a park thing)...smaller hill and all. However, I still own a couple of sets of cartels (there were killer deals on them and I liked my older set). I'm still on the fence (you guys aren't helping!  about getting a closeout pair of malavitas or just riding what I have and see. I guess the intelligent thing to do is evaluate before spending more. The next few days will tell if I'm intelligent or not.


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

GDimac said:


> Like @F1EA, I've owned both. The Genies & GenX, currently also (sort of, lol). As many have already mentioned, they're both similar but that stiff Cartel strap def gives it the more responsive feel. Out of all those B binders I've owned, the new Cartel strap is def the stiffest, but the least comfortable imo. Also agree with F1 in that depends on the feel/type of riding you're going for, and board you're pairing with. If leaning more freestyle oriented, prob go Vita. Cartel for All Mtn-ish type focus.
> 
> But I've personally frank'd mine the past couple winters. My daily driver right now consists mainly of the newer Cartel baseplate (45% Short-Glass one), Genies highback, with the GenX ankle strap & Gettagrip toe strap. All the parts I like most from B binders, to create an ultra comfortable mid-stiff setup. And I mainly ride boards in the 7+ stiffness range (current quiver for perspective: 54 US Orbit/57 Korua T.Finder+/59 Pencil. Had it paired with a 56 Amplid Penta for majority of the past szn).


Yeah haha I also have my Malavitas with Genesis ankle straps. Much better too.


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

smellysell said:


> I don't know, maybe it's just a stiffer board than I like. Guess I'll know after I try it with the Diodes.
> 
> I might just not have enough experience to understand what I'm feeling, but the Cartels feel really unresponsive on that board to me.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


Yes, that happens. Seems like you just like a responsive binding; I'm somewhat like that too, which is why I'm not a big fan of Malavitas. BUT Diodes can be a little too much, especially on a Maverick. That's the cool thing with Now bindings, Now Drives are powerful enough for pretty much anything, but are never too much.

I see the input / power transfer from: Boots to Bindings to Board. So I don't think of the board overpowering the bindings, but rather the bindings not being enough to power the board... boots is more of a preference because you can just adjust your movement to makeup for what the boots lack. 

Diodes I have on a Dump Truck. Perfect match  
They were good on Landlord and Archetype too. But it's because both LL and Archetype are just very versatile boards, so I've found they're fine with most bindings. Even Malavitas. 

Those boards from GDimac all would be great with Cartels, Genesis, Genesis X or Diodes depending on what you like or if it's going to be powder or hardpack. Generally, for powder you can go with soft bindings and it doesn't matter much.


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## Rip154 (Sep 23, 2017)

Surgeon said:


> I'm definitely a freestyle rider (park and whole mountain as a park thing)...smaller hill and all. However, I still own a couple of sets of cartels (there were killer deals on them and I liked my older set). I'm still on the fence (you guys aren't helping!  about getting a closeout pair of malavitas or just riding what I have and see. I guess the intelligent thing to do is evaluate before spending more. The next few days will tell if I'm intelligent or not.


Intelligence means fuck all these days, so don't worry bout it.


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## smellysell (Oct 29, 2018)

F1EA said:


> Yes, that happens. Seems like you just like a responsive binding; I'm somewhat like that too, which is why I'm not a big fan of Malavitas. BUT Diodes can be a little too much, especially on a Maverick. That's the cool thing with Now bindings, Now Drives are powerful enough for pretty much anything, but are never too much.
> 
> I see the input / power transfer from: Boots to Bindings to Board. So I don't think of the board overpowering the bindings, but rather the bindings not being enough to power the board... boots is more of a preference because you can just adjust your movement to makeup for what the boots lack.
> 
> ...


Yeah, I've never ridden Diodes, but I got them (with no highbacks) for the cost of shipping, so figured I'd try them since I generally like stiffer bindings, especially since I've had to move to softer boots thanks to my stupid, wide feet. 

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## Surgeon (Apr 13, 2020)

Rip154 said:


> Intelligence means fuck all these days, so don't worry bout it.


Yeah but it's pretty much all I have...


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

smellysell said:


> especially since I've had to move to softer boots


That explains it...


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## smellysell (Oct 29, 2018)

F1EA said:


> That explains it...


Yeah, unfortunately they don't make Malamutes in wide. 

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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

smellysell said:


> Yeah, unfortunately they don't make Malamutes in wide.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


Oh that REALLY explains it. It's the boots. Malamutes are really stiff. You can also get an aftermarket (stiff) liner to help beef up the boots a litte...

You'll get used to it as you ride... but yeah, boards will feel a bit stiffer if you've been used to a supportive setup.


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## smellysell (Oct 29, 2018)

F1EA said:


> Oh that REALLY explains it. It's the boots. Malamutes are really stiff. You can also get an aftermarket (stiff) liner to help beef up the boots a litte...
> 
> You'll get used to it as you ride... but yeah, boards will feel a bit stiffer if you've been used to a supportive setup.


Makes sense, other board/binding combos don't feel that different though, so who knows. Maybe I'll try the Cartels with my old Malamutes. 

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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

smellysell said:


> Makes sense, other board/binding combos don't feel that different though, so who knows. Maybe I'll try the Cartels with my old Malamutes.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


For example softer, rocker boards can generally be powered with any boot/binding combination. When you start going into medium/stiff and cambered boards, then you start to appreciate more response.


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## fzst (Jan 3, 2019)

F1EA said:


> Those boards from GDimac all would be great with Cartels, Genesis, Genesis X or Diodes depending on what you like or if it's going to be powder or hardpack. Generally, for powder you can go with soft bindings and it doesn't matter much.


It´s always funny how different the opinions about setup-stiffness can be I always read comments like this, that people prefer softer, surfier setups for pow. Me personally, I like to have the stiffest setup possible for powder riding. I just feel like I need that response to properly maneuver in the deep stuff.
I also don´t like stiff boards/setups on icy snow even though a lot of people recommand stiff boards for icy conditions. I like ridind softer boards there because I don´t need much power to make turns on smooth icy snow, just good edgehold. Stiff boards can really feel catchy in these conditions and I don´t feel like I need alot of stiffness there. if the snow gets choppier though I really appreciate more stifness/dampness to plow through everything...


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## fzst (Jan 3, 2019)

F1EA said:


> I have both. I like Cartels way better. More responsive and cheaper.
> 
> Malavitas have the better double take buckles.
> 
> I say if you want something more freestyle-oriented (more lateral freedom, softer, a bit of a smaller highback) then Malavita is the better one. If you want all mountain and any board capability then Cartel are great.


I have had a set of malavitas about 6 years ago but only for one week before i traded them in for a set of cartels, so I can´t really remember how they felt. Doesn´t the malavita have a stiffer highback? Just from playing around with it at the store it feels way stiffer than the really soft highback on my cartels - the cartels are longer though.
I really feel like the soft highbacks of the cartels highback are holding them back repsonse-wise. I changed the baseplate of my cartels with a diode baseplate but I didn´t notice that much of an improvement in stiffness or response, a touch more for sure but not that significant. I guess the small asym anklestrap (an old-style one with fake leather and old buckles) and the soft highback doesn´t let the bindings repsond quicker. I will try out a set of x-base highbacks on them next season let´s see if i like it more...
By the way I also have a set of Cartel EST on my custom X and I like them quite a bit more. They fel stiffer and more damp compared to the re:flex model.


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## fzst (Jan 3, 2019)

F1EA said:


> Malavitas have the better double take buckles.


I really don´t like the double take buckles. in my opinion it´s a step backwards. The buckles are the most important thing on a binding - if they fail, the whole bindings unusable and your day on the mountain is ruined. That´s why I mostly used burton binders the last ~15 years. They just have the best ratchets in the game - until they started making double take. They get stuck sometimes and they can freeze leaving the buckles unusable until you get the board in a warm room. I also don´t like the feeling of cranking with them, they just feel like you can´t crank em as tight as normal buckles. Funniliy enough, they also cause the very thing they were meant to prevent: striping the ladders. Every double take ladder I had so far and I had to replace the ladders regularely whereas I never had that problem with the older style ratchets.


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## fzst (Jan 3, 2019)

How do you guys like the Genesis highback? I read a lot of comments about the Gensis response and of course comfort. Why do you prefer the Genesis over the Malavitas? 
As far as I know, it has the same "soft" 30% Nylon/Glass baseplate with a different highback and anklestrap. Isn´t the highback even softer with it´s supsension thing?


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

fzst said:


> I have had a set of malavitas about 6 years ago but only for one week before i traded them in for a set of cartels, so I can´t really remember how they felt. Doesn´t the malavita have a stiffer highback? Just from playing around with it at the store it feels way stiffer than the really soft highback on my cartels - the cartels are longer though.
> I really feel like the soft highbacks of the cartels highback are holding them back repsonsewise. I changed the baseplate of my cartels with a diode baseplate but I didn´t notice that much of an improvement in stiffness or response a touch more for sure but not that significant. I guess the small asym heelstrap(an old-style one with fake leather and old buckles) and the soft highback doesn´t let the bindings repsonse quicker. I will try out a set of x-base highbacks on them next season let´s see if i like it more...
> By the way I also have a set of Cartel EST on my custom X and I like them quite a bit more. They fel stiffer and more damp compared to the re:flex model.


They've been all over the place with Cartels. They change a little season after season.
In general, the Malavita highback is stiffer, BUT it is shorter. Also the baseplate is softer, and the ankle straps are smaller/less responsive.

I think the ~2019+ are perfect. Finally what they've always said Cartels were. They have a stiffer baseplate, taller highback and the bigger ankle strap. This makes them noticeably more responsive than Malavitas. It is not a HUGE difference like with all Burton bindings.... they're all somewhere in the same range. But because of the shape and softness of the highback... you dont ever feel like Cartels are too stiff (as opposed to Diodes which do feel too stiff).

Also, I'm comparing EST Cartel to EST Malavita... so yes, I like all of them in EST more as well.


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## Phedder (Sep 13, 2014)

How different? Not really different enough. Put the Malavita high back (maybe make it 1-2cm taller) on the Cartel, put the Cartel highback on the Malavita, and you've got a pretty clearly defined high end freestyle binding, and then a clearly defined all mountain binding as well. 

But the above is now moot with the updates for 2021. I'm definitely intrigued by the new Cartel X, but hard to move away from the adjustability of Romes for me now.


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## Surgeon (Apr 13, 2020)

Phedder said:


> How different? Not really different enough. Put the Malavita high back (maybe make it 1-2cm taller) on the Cartel, put the Cartel highback on the Malavita, and you've got a pretty clearly defined high end freestyle binding, and then a clearly defined all mountain binding as well.


See, that's exactly the point of the thread: considering that the features are different (one with a stiffer highback, the other with a stiffer baseplate [for example]) I'm wondering how much difference that made in the "real world", without the marketing or the conjecture based on specs alone.


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## Surgeon (Apr 13, 2020)

F1EA said:


> It is not a HUGE difference like with all Burton bindings.... they're all somewhere in the same range.


And that's another big point here. They're all somewhat similar, except for a few (freestyle, X), which made me wonder if the differences aren't just splitting hairs at some point.


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## bigtalltree (Mar 19, 2018)

I saw some deals for both Cartel and Malavita this weekend. I'm on the fence. I have Cartels from 2009 I think on my Ride board. Nothing really wrong with them, but do I invest in new bindings?


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## fzst (Jan 3, 2019)

bigtalltree said:


> I saw some deals for both Cartel and Malavita this weekend. I'm on the fence. I have Cartels from 2009 I think on my Ride board. Nothing really wrong with them, but do I invest in new bindings?


The new one would be softer but offer a different feel with the re:flex tech. Maybe you will like it better maybe not but it would for sure add comfort.


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

bigtalltree said:


> I saw some deals for both Cartel and Malavita this weekend. I'm on the fence. I have Cartels from 2009 I think on my Ride board. Nothing really wrong with them, but do I invest in new bindings?


New bindings are always exciting. I believe in stoke. New gear stokes people; stoked people ride more, ride better and are happier hahah

Cartel vs Malavita depends on the board. Freestyle oriented board.. go Malavita. All mtn board go with Cartel.


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## robotfood99 (Mar 19, 2016)

Phedder said:


> How different? Not really different enough. Put the Malavita high back (maybe make it 1-2cm taller) on the Cartel, put the Cartel highback on the Malavita, and you've got a pretty clearly defined high end freestyle binding, and then a clearly defined all mountain binding as well.


Burton 's official franken versions. This Cartel LTD had a hammockback on an otherwise Cartel platform, with Genesis ankle straps thrown in for good measure.










Then they must have thought this was not responsive enough because this came out as the new Cartel LTD. Diode highbacks on the same Cartel/Genesis mix. My favoritest bindings ever.










In theory these two bindings cover pretty much everything - freestyle to freeride. But then Nows came along and changed the game...


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## fzst (Jan 3, 2019)

robotfood99 said:


> In theory these two bindings cover pretty much everything - freestyle to freeride. But then Nows came along and changed the game...


Wow, do they really feel that different? From what I have seen, Burton bindings do the same thing as the kingpin - they lift off of the board because of their flexible baseplate. I guess with Now's skate-tech they can build a stiffer binding with the same ability to flex? I really have to try one sometime...


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## robotfood99 (Mar 19, 2016)

fzst said:


> Wow, do they really feel that different? From what I have seen, Burton bindings do the same thing as the kingpin - they lift off of the board because of their flexible baseplate. I guess with Now's skate-tech they can build a stiffer binding with the same ability to flex? I really have to try one sometime...


Skatetech (and similar tech from other brands) really upped the heel/toe response game for sure. That's not to say they don't have shortcomings. I think Now's hangar design restricts lateral foot movement so aren't the greatest as freestyle binders. Also the lack of adjustments and that toecap. Even so the strengths outweigh the weaknesses handily imo, especially in the 7+ response range.


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## Rip154 (Sep 23, 2017)

Nows seem to create kind of a pulley effect with the ankle strap, putting less pressure on the instep while you get the board on edge. While it works the same heelside, that's the main advantage to me.


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## jstar (Sep 21, 2016)

robotfood99 said:


> Then they must have thought this was not responsive enough because this came out as the new Cartel LTD. Diode highbacks on the same Cartel/Genesis mix. My favoritest bindings ever.
> 
> View attachment 155069



I have these bindings, and agree. To date they are probably my favourite.


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