# STRAIGHT LEGGING ON HEEL TURNS AND CARVES



## sxntos (Mar 1, 2020)

Hey everyone! I have been snowboarding for about 5 years now and its not been til this season where i asked a friend to film how i ride and I realized thats I dont bend my knees on my heel carves / sprays. Back straight but legs not bent. My toe carves is textbook but i have a bad habit thats carried on from when i first started which is straight legging. What would you all recommend i try doing? I tried the “pretend to sit on a chair” method but it didn’t work for me. Let me know!

Thanks in advanced and happy shredding!


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## WigMar (Mar 17, 2019)

I like to think of dropping my butt to my highbacks. It's more of a squat than sitting on a chair- like going number two in the woods. It helps to get low really early in the turn. Straighten your legs at the end of the turn. Working on grabbing your toe edge on heelside carves will get you really low. That's a position you can practice without even moving.


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## Bob F (Feb 8, 2020)

sxntos said:


> Hey everyone! I have been snowboarding for about 5 years now and its not been til this season where i asked a friend to film how i ride and I realized thats I dont bend my knees on my heel carves / sprays. Back straight but legs not bent. My toe carves is textbook but i have a bad habit thats carried on from when i first started which is straight legging. What would you all recommend i try doing? I tried the “pretend to sit on a chair” method but it didn’t work for me. Let me know!


I increased the forward lean of the highbacks on my bindings for this specific reason. That allows me to stay aligned with my board with my legs bent enough on heelside turns to absorb bumps. It will work your quads more, but they adapt to deal with it.


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## Kijima (Mar 3, 2019)

Try adopting a front knee open stance immediately after your toe turn.


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## Donutz (May 12, 2010)

Have you figured out _why _you aren't bending your legs on heelsides? I mean, motivation? Are you scared to stick your butt out because you're scared you'll lose the edge and do a hard landing? Do your thighs ache if you bend your legs too much? do you feel off balance? It's obviously a mental problem. Identify the source of your reluctance and you're halfway there.


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## Kijima (Mar 3, 2019)

I see so many people struggling at the toe to heel transition because they maintain a toe turn friendly front knee inward position. It's almost impossible to prompt a heel turn with your front knee inward.
Flip the knee out and you will find squatting easy I think ?


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## buller_scott (Jun 10, 2018)

sxntos said:


> Thanks in advanced and happy shredding!


After 5 years on a snowboard, I'd say you're ready to start flexing/extending. Some people are naturally gifted in that they figure out how to do this by themselves, and as a function of their athleticism. I had to learn this at snowboard camp <<< _without over-repeating what others often say on the forums, it sounds like you're ripe for lessons to kick you up to the next level!!!!_

Short of that, I would say slow things down (I say this a lot), and put aside a few runs each day - hopefully on a nice, steady-sloped, wide and empty run - to focus on your heel side turns only, making your way across the run. You say you have a straight back when you ride, so try setting your heelside edge, and bending your knees enough so that you are able to touch the outsides of your knees with your fingertips and keep them there during your turn. Another way to think of it would be to see if you can get a feeling for sucking your knees up to your chest, whilst on edge. 



Bob F said:


> I increased the forward lean of the highbacks on my bindings for this specific reason. That allows me to stay aligned with my board with my legs bent enough on heelside turns to absorb bumps. It will work your quads more, but they adapt to deal with it.


^^ This. Forward lean is a "freebie", and sometimes overlooked. It doesn't need to be too much, either. 



Donutz said:


> Have you figured out _why _you aren't bending your legs on heelsides? I mean, motivation? Are you scared to stick your butt out because you're scared you'll lose the edge and do a hard landing? Do your thighs ache if you bend your legs too much? do you feel off balance? It's obviously a mental problem. Identify the source of your reluctance and you're halfway there.


OP, it'd be good if you could answer this - it'll likely lead to more specific advice from other riders on here.


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## Manicmouse (Apr 7, 2014)

Increasing the forward lean on my highbacks really paid off for me. I went about halfway on my Unions. Tried max forward lean and it killed me standing in chair lift queues


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## buller_scott (Jun 10, 2018)

Manicmouse said:


> Increasing the forward lean on my highbacks really paid off for me. I went about halfway on my Unions. Tried max forward lean and it killed me standing in chair lift queues


Haha, I'm wonky - I've got a tiny bit on my back foot, but more on my front.


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## sxntos (Mar 1, 2020)

buller_scott said:


> After 5 years on a snowboard, I'd say you're ready to start flexing/extending. Some people are naturally gifted in that they figure out how to do this by themselves, and as a function of their athleticism. I had to learn this at snowboard camp <<< _without over-repeating what others often say on the forums, it sounds like you're ripe for lessons to kick you up to the next level!!!!_
> 
> Short of that, I would say slow things down (I say this a lot), and put aside a few runs each day - hopefully on a nice, steady-sloped, wide and empty run - to focus on your heel side turns only, making your way across the run. You say you have a straight back when you ride, so try setting your heelside edge, and bending your knees enough so that you are able to touch the outsides of your knees with your fingertips and keep them there during your turn. Another way to think of it would be to see if you can get a feeling for sucking your knees up to your chest, whilst on edge.
> 
> ...


Thank you so much for the fast replies!!
And i find that in my head, im doing it properly, (bending my knees) and getting real low but as i saw myself on film, my legs were super straight out and i was bending at the hip and not at the knee.


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## sxntos (Mar 1, 2020)

Donutz said:


> Have you figured out _why _you aren't bending your legs on heelsides? I mean, motivation? Are you scared to stick your butt out because you're scared you'll lose the edge and do a hard landing? Do your thighs ache if you bend your legs too much? do you feel off balance? It's obviously a mental problem. Identify the source of your reluctance and you're halfway there.


My source of reluctance has to be re teaching my self how to bend my knees on my heels i think. I would get real low but after reviewing footage, i would bend at the hip instead of the knee


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## buller_scott (Jun 10, 2018)

I would say you're getting caught in the moment, and it's working - so you've built in a bad habit over time. 

I'd give a decent amount of forward lean a try - ride it for a morning until it becomes familiar, get your friend to film you again and see if this has made any difference.


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## WigMar (Mar 17, 2019)

Bending at the waist is a pretty common mistake. There's some good tips in this thread.


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## Snowdaddy (Feb 2, 2018)

sxntos said:


> Thank you so much for the fast replies!!
> And i find that in my head, im doing it properly, (bending my knees) and getting real low but as i saw myself on film, my legs were super straight out and i was bending at the hip and not at the knee.


I'm only an intermediate rider, or maybe even a beginner to a lot. I find that I often do the same as you do.

One thing I've tried is to bend my knees before entering into the heel side turn and reach/point my front hand towards my front heel. Then sit down and lift your toes. Not sure if it's a valid advice, but it makes me open up my shoulders a little and helps with the heel side carve.

Mostly I just ride around bent at the waist though


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

Find a nice wide mellow steepness run and exersise to grab your from edge with rear hand while doing the heelside carve, relax and follow the sidecut all through that run on a long arch. You can only do that with bent knees. It will force you to bend automatically.


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## Stevomcd (Apr 1, 2020)

Can’t say for sure without seeing some video, but I would suggest working on ankle flex to start with. You should feel like you’re pulling up with your toes, trying to touch your toes to your shins. If your ankles are flexed, it will make it easier and feel more natural to squat lower and bend your knees.
It’s quite a common fault, although straight legs are probably more common on toe edge.
Sitting on a chair/toilet is the WRONG position as it leads people to stick their arses out with no ankle flex. Bend at the ankles and knees. Shoulders, hips and ankles stay all in a vertical line, no bend at the waist.
If it’s become a really ingrained habit, you’ll have to take some time to fix it. Go to mellow slopes and really work on it - or take a lesson.


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## ETonasnowboard (Jan 28, 2018)

So increasing your forward lean is probably going to help you loads with this problem - please do this!

The second thing you might want to sort out is your shoulder position. Sounds like you're just leaning back currently but lacking the right position. On the backside, your front shoulder should be turned in the direction you're going --> above your front heel, not above your toes. Front hand should therefore also be above your backside edge. If you do this and have your legs straight, you will probably faceplant, so time to start bending the knees. This stuff is really important and actually this should always be your position on the backside --> will get you huge improvement in all of your riding if you implement this!!

Anyways - with carving you are supposed to have a turn launching moment (I know all of this stuff in German, this is a really wacky translation), which means that you either go deep or stand up really quickly at the start of the turn. That doesn't work when you're straight-legged all the time --> bend your knees more as the turn progresses so that you build up pressure on the edge and can explode into your next turn.

It should look pretty much like this guy, although the back hand should be a little bit more forward (between your legs). --> imagine that there's eyes in your shoulders that are looking where you are going.










Hope this helps!


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## buller_scott (Jun 10, 2018)

ETonasnowboard said:


> So increasing your forward lean is probably going to help you loads with this problem - please do this!
> 
> The second thing you might want to sort out is your shoulder position. Sounds like you're just leaning back currently but lacking the right position. On the backside, your front shoulder should be turned in the direction you're going --> above your front heel, not above your toes. Front hand should therefore also be above your backside edge. If you do this and have your legs straight, you will probably faceplant, so time to start bending the knees. This stuff is really important and actually this should always be your position on the backside --> will get you huge improvement in all of your riding if you implement this!!
> 
> ...


Perhaps it's my newfound ability to ride a narrower stance (I used to channel the Forum 8, for decades) - that stance looks big!!!


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## BoardieK (Dec 21, 2015)

I don't think it's a real person. Looks like Action Man (GI Joe) to me😄


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## ETonasnowboard (Jan 28, 2018)

Well this guy could be a bit of an action man, it's one of those crazy Staatlich Snowsports Austria guys (I now also think I probably can't use that picture, but whatever) so what he can do is surreal anyway.

hmmm it might be a little wide but not too much I think? Do you like riding a narrow stance? I don't really, feel like it limits your ability to move a bit. Don't like too wide either though, so I guess you need a balance.


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## Rip154 (Sep 23, 2017)

I can still ride heelside turns pretty well when bending at the waist, but it's usually when I get tired. Gotta make sure you get low enough then, or it looks daft. Try to ride low on toeside as well, so it's easier to get the transition right. I find narrower stances makes turning faster, or carving at least, but a little heavier. Wider stance makes the tips easier to manipulate, and it gets easier to stay in balance with less stress on your legs, but can affect knees negatively if you get some hard turns and landings in.


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## buller_scott (Jun 10, 2018)

ETonasnowboard said:


> hmmm it might be a little wide but not too much I think? Do you like riding a narrow stance? I don't really, feel like it limits your ability to move a bit. Don't like too wide either though, so I guess you need a balance.


Nah I'm not TOO hectic on a narrow stance - rather, a _narrower_ stance than I used to ride, which for a LONG time, was 23.5-24.5 inches. 

Like someone once said on this forum, The wide stance thing seems to be, in my case, something that I defaulted to, that became my norm, and I let it drag on for way too long, trying to make it work instead of e.g. looking at ways to improve my ankle strength and lateral balance (which skate pumping seems to have helped with, massively). 

I'm 5'10'' and I have short legs. 24.5in stance, in hindsight, was WAY too big for me. With my narrower carving stance (and better balance and adjustability), it feels so, so good, especially when thinking back to how I used to carve with +/+ angles and a 23.5in stance for carving.


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## Manicmouse (Apr 7, 2014)

BoardieK said:


> I don't think it's a real person. Looks like Action Man (GI Joe) to me😄


Yeah, don't try to look like that guy, maybe it's the snow suit 😂


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## Manicmouse (Apr 7, 2014)

I used this Nidecker vid for checking my stance width and found it exactly matched the defaults I'd been using on my board.


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## buller_scott (Jun 10, 2018)

Manicmouse said:


> I used this Nidecker vid for checking my stance width and found it exactly matched the defaults I'd been using on my board.


 I'd tried to follow that vid, but ended up going back to my usual stance - so wide that I literally need baggy, stretchy snow pants in order to spread my feet that far (thanks, Helly Hansen!). 

I guess that vid presumes that you've already got the foot/ankle strength, decent balance, and decent agility. No bad thing, for sure.


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## Manicmouse (Apr 7, 2014)

buller_scott said:


> I'd tried to follow that vid, but ended up going back to my usual stance - so wide that I literally need baggy, stretchy snow pants in order to spread my feet that far (thanks, Helly Hansen!).
> 
> I guess that vid presumes that you've already got the foot/ankle strength, decent balance, and decent agility. No bad thing, for sure.


I dunno about that, I'm really inflexible! Huge lack of ability (edit: agility!) here... My legs aren't that far apart. I guess it's just one method that won't work for everyone!


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## buller_scott (Jun 10, 2018)

Manicmouse said:


> I dunno about that, I'm really inflexible! Huge lack of ability here... My legs aren't that far apart. I guess it's just one method that won't work for everyone!


Ah but that being said, I think it's a decent "pointer" guide, and hey who knows - maybe after coming full circle, it'll work for whoever is watching it (it kinda did with me!!!!). 

Don't overestimate your inflexibility - I'm so complacent that lately, I've only been stretching what, 10min a week?!?!?! (Since Vail announced the lift closures). 

Tsk tsk tsk, gotta step up my game.


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## Manicmouse (Apr 7, 2014)

Ha I said lack of ability, I meant agility  fml...


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