# carving critques



## KIRKRIDER (Mar 18, 2008)

You should avoid closing your turns sweeping your back leg out as you do now, get more on your edges and stay on them. Do longer turns and balance on edges, extending your legs before flexing them into another turn. 
Use your back knee to close the turn imstead, rotating it toward your front leg. :wink:


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## stryk3z (Jan 22, 2015)

on groomers weight forward. Steeper terrain-> get lower otherwise lazy boarding doesn't really require it. Biggest thing is on ur toe side carves u got alot of counter rotation goin on which forces u to slide ur turns. Not sure if its cus ur holding a go pro but ur heelside doesn't seem to do it.


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

It seems as if you "push" your hind leg backwards, away from under your hips on your frontside carves. This makes the end of the turn slip (you hamper the edge grip by this push).

Try to drive out the turn with your weight over the toes, i.e. get your body over the edge (as opposed to push the board backwards). When your knees/hip get over the edge, your ancles tilt the edge and it'll grip. If you just push backwards, the edge has no tilt and thus no grip, and the radius can't follow the carve -> slided turn.


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## Mr.Zywall (Jan 5, 2017)

Thanks for the comments so far. The general observation seems to be that near the end of the turn, my tail slides out and that's specific to my toeside carves. Wow I didn't even realize this until I can see myself in a vid and you guys pointing it out.


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## WasabiCanuck (Apr 29, 2015)

I'm no expert but you look pretty good to me. Tough to say much since I can't see your feet. The date stamp says this is from last year, just curious how old this is.


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## Mr.Zywall (Jan 5, 2017)

WasabiCanuck said:


> The date stamp says this is from last year, just curious how old this is.


oh I should have mentioned, don't mind the time/date stamp! it gets screwed up when I put in new batteries. video was this weekend, not last year. Time stamp was 20:15 (it's obviously not 8:15pm based on daylight). :wink:


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## Noreaster (Oct 7, 2012)

neni said:


> Try to drive out the turn with your weight over the toes, i.e. get your body over the edge (as opposed to push the board backwards). When your knees/hip get over the edge, your ancles tilt the edge and it'll grip. If you just push backwards, the edge has no tilt and thus no grip, and the radius can't follow the carve -> slided turn.


That.

I'd be more specific and suggest to bring your pelvis forward when you are bringing weight over toes. You bend at the waist too much on your toeside arch. Sit lower on your haunches, straighten up at the waist and and bring the pelvis over the edge of the board. And yes, you have to trust the board to hold your weight, so if you want to lay down a real deep carve Funslinger is probably not the best deck for the task.


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

Mr.Zywall said:


> I think I have it somewhat down, but I'm trying to get better at it. I can never actually see how I looked until this first time I recorded myself.
> 
> It looks like I can carve a small line in the snow at some parts, but some sections of the turn looks washed out.
> 
> ...


The board is fine for what you are doing there. In fact, I think it's perfect for this slope, speed and snow conditions.
Also, your turns are not that bad, considering it is difficult to get any "real" carving down on such a mild slope.

Most of the recommendations here are already good.... so get on with that and just keep riding and improving. Basically get lower, flex your ankles a bit more, and just try to keep your weight closer to right above the board edge.......

Also take it to steeper slopes too so you can really lay more edge angle.
Once you get more edge angle and more weight right on the edge, the end of the turns will be cleaner.


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## Fielding (Feb 15, 2015)

Which part of the video should I look at to see you carving? Just kidding, bro. You gotta bend your knees. Make that weight go up and down. Decamber the board (unless it came decambered from the store in which case oh well) as you go through the turn. 

What I saw in the vid were S turns. They ended at the fall line and then you transitioned to the other rail for another turn. You never really went perp to the fall line and you never went back uphill. There was a little skidding but not too much --see post by neni above.

I wanna see you moving your weight more. Load the nose going into the turn. Unload gradually through it. Flex that board downward to engage the effective edge. You appear to be using about 1/3 of your board's edge. Use the whole thing. In order to do that you are going to have to move your center of mass up-down and forward-back a lot more. 

Try to jam it across the fall line and turn back up the mountain while still holding your speed. Then turn off of your downhiil edge with authority, weight way out front, and ride that edge it around by about 270 degrees.


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## SnowDragon (Apr 23, 2012)

Fielding said:


> Which part of the video should I look at to see you carving? Just kidding, bro. You gotta bend your knees. Make that weight go up and down. Decamber the board (unless it came decambered from the store in which case oh well) as you go through the turn.
> 
> What I saw in the vid were S turns. They ended at the fall line and then you transitioned to the other rail for another turn. You never really went perp to the fall line and you never went back uphill. There was a little skidding but not too much --see post by neni above.
> 
> ...


Completely agree with all of this.
Only thing I would add is, if you are truly interested in carving, engage the sidecut on your board and let that guide you through the carve to achieve the swooping, broad, carve turns Fielding describes above. You shouldn't have to steer the board once you fully engage the sidecut.


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## t21 (Dec 29, 2010)

IMO your were doing S turns as what Fielding has describe and you are doing fine with that. The steeper section where you are sweeping your backleg just seems to me like a quick speed checking cuz there were some folks close to you but i could be wrong . Carving would be more of engaging your sidecut more by pressing down lower on your ankles/knees(toeside),hold that turn to uphill, then unweigthing to engage your heelside then squat down(sitting position like)then hold as you go uphill then repeat on toeside carve. Your posture on your vid shows that you are basically just going at moderate speed and just turning. Carving is more dynamic and much easier to do when going faster,not maching it like some pro's do but with a bit more speed.


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## ItchEtrigR (Jan 1, 2012)

Hard to see what your doing in that video other than having a blast. I think Fielding brings up a good point you need to be on your edge a bit longer and let it work. 

Sent from my SM-N900 using Tapatalk


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## elstinky (Jan 24, 2010)

GreyDragon said:


> engage the sidecut on your board and let that guide you


Just want to repeat this: for me the click for carving came after a couple of times eating snow because suddenly the sidecut engaged and the board wanted to go it's own way while I wasn't prepared for it. It's hard to explain what it feels like but you'll understand it when it happens, it's nothing like the more skidded turning we're used to.


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## timmytard (Mar 19, 2009)

Quick someone tag SG.
He's the king in this department.

You think he woulda been here by now:embarrased1:


TT


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## poutanen (Dec 22, 2011)

Not bad riding. Hard to tell from the video but let's go back to the basics for a second...

Where are you starting the turn from? (in your body) In the video you looked more like you had a skiier upper body, it stayed very much the same downhill, and your lower body did all the turning.

To have a REALLY good toeside carve, your leading shoulder and hip need to move from your heel towards your toe edge, your knee drops, and the carve follows.

On your heel edge it's the opposite, your shoulder goes back, butt goes back and down, knees bent, ride out the turn.

I'm not a big fan of online "learn to carve" vids cause generally I think they over complicate things, however the CASI Level 4 riding expectation video is a great demo of what the upper body should be doing in relation to the lower body. This technique makes things like moguls, crud, and tight trees MUCH easier.






edit: The "expert short radius" turns they demonstrate in that vid is a different technique that I think some call over/unders where there is a huge amount of upper/lower body separation. That's for very quick short sharp turns, very different from big drawn out carves.


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## deagol (Mar 26, 2014)

I've found the distinction between "cross-over" and "cross-under" turns useful in trying to describe carving techniques. It sounds like what Poutanen is describing is "cross-over". 

You can definitely blend the two techniques.


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## Fielding (Feb 15, 2015)

poutanen said:


> Not bad riding. Hard to tell from the video but let's go back to the basics for a second...
> 
> Where are you starting the turn from? (in your body) In the video you looked more like you had a skiier upper body, it stayed very much the same downhill, and your lower body did all the turning.
> 
> ...


CASI standard shoulders over hips over heels looks shitty to me. I guess it's the accepted system but it don't like it. This is better I think:

https://youtu.be/mvADH_dLb4w

https://youtu.be/DLDEX4ywLJU

I think this one is best of all https://youtu.be/q32-UhKJLo8


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## Fielding (Feb 15, 2015)

Forgot to say before: make sure you have a good amount of forward lean on those bindings.


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## deagol (Mar 26, 2014)

great videos, as usual, from Ryan Knapton. He goes from Cross-under turns in the beginning to cross-over turns at about 2:10. Usus a wide cambered board.


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## poutanen (Dec 22, 2011)

Fielding said:


> CASI standard shoulders over hips over heels looks shitty to me. I guess it's the accepted system but it don't like it. This is better I think:


I used to think the same thing, watching CASI Level 4 instructors looked boring to me. Now that I've spent a while trying to fine tune my riding, I actually see the benefit to their style. On steep chutes/moguls/etc I find it much more controllable, and I'm not wasting energy.

Nevertheless, as long as you're having fun, it's all good...


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## Fielding (Feb 15, 2015)

I'll concede that it might make sense for going switch and other stuff I'm not interested in doing. I've always ridden with moderate + + angles and used a slightly tucked rear knee style (eg. Craig Kelly) to easily flex the board and engage sidecut. Along with that I've always been slightly rotated at the waist so that the line from my trailing shoulder to my front shoulder forms about a 30 degree angle to the centerline coming off of the rear of the board. So yeah, I confess my style might be dated. But it works for what I do. I've been changing lately to more + + and more rotated thanks to getting a bunch of instruction on plates this season. It has been a real mind expander to learn to edge and flex a 18cm wide board standing at +47 +55. Forget about heels and toes! On occasions when I've gone back to a softboot rig my back knee is hella cocked and my shoulders are even more square to the board. Heels and toes are starting to have a lesser role in turning. 



poutanen said:


> Fielding said:
> 
> 
> > CASI standard shoulders over hips over heels looks shitty to me. I guess it's the accepted system but it don't like it. This is better I think:
> ...


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## poutanen (Dec 22, 2011)

Fielding said:


> Along with that I've always been slightly rotated at the waist so that the line from my trailing shoulder to my front shoulder forms about a 30 degree angle to the centerline coming off of the rear of the board. So yeah, I confess my style might be dated. But it works for what I do.


I hear ya, I started boarding in the late 80's with a 0 deg back foot, 45 degree front foot angle. My shoulders are never fully square with the board, except maybe on a toeside turn, but even then I still open up a bit.

What really opened my eyes was the last two seasons of lessons at Kicking Horse. Both years they really worked on getting my front shoulder twisted more over my toe edge on a toeside turn, and it's worked wonders for me! I used to not mind moguls, but would be exhausted by the time I got to the bottom of a large mogul field. Now I actually sort of enjoy moguls, and I'm significantly less gassed at the end.

Another trick they showed me this year was how to deal with counter rotation if you find yourself twisted up. They say to just pull your arms into your body, and like a figure skater it's much easier to rotate without your arm mass being a long way off centre. Tried it in steep bumpy trees, and it works!

Some of the other things CASI teaches I'm not crazy about, but I understand why they use them as a teaching method. Everyone is going to add their own particular style to snowboarding, but by trying to bring the style more toward the basics of the CASI style, they're hopefully working out some bad habits that people have.

Going off topic here now, the things I see most often when evaluating others snowboarding are: counter rotating to make turns, and the turns end of washy... Standing too vertical, or being too static with body positioning... Not finishing or rounding out turns.

Another exercise they had us do this year was to point the board straight down a wide open moderate groomer, then lean to engage either edge, and ride that carve out until you're heading uphill again and stop. No angulation, knee dropping, etc. Just lean and feel. It felt really weird at first, as I'm used to dropping a knee or bum and keeping my upper body more vertical, but was a great exercise.


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## robotfood99 (Mar 19, 2016)

poutanen said:


> Another trick they showed me this year was how to deal with counter rotation if you find yourself twisted up. They say to just pull your arms into your body, and like a figure skater it's much easier to rotate without your arm mass being a long way off centre. Tried it in steep bumpy trees, and it works!



Just like when spinning airs. 

Speaking of tricks, a slalom racer taught me this: with your back elbow bent up hand toward the chest, alternate between palm side up and down. Palm up will close the shoulder, down will open. Or was it the other way.. confused now. Sounded like quackery but it did seem to work. Didn't find much use for it coz I normally have my back hand hanging low.


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## speedjason (May 2, 2013)

poutanen said:


> Another trick they showed me this year was how to deal with counter rotation if you find yourself twisted up. They say to just pull your arms into your body, and like a figure skater it's much easier to rotate without your arm mass being a long way off centre. Tried it in steep bumpy trees, and it works!


What I do is hold my hands behind my back. You will know immediately if you are counter rotated.


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## Mr.Zywall (Jan 5, 2017)

I've read all the posts at least 3 times and did some mental snowboarding througout the whole week whenever I was doing any mindless tasks. Hit the slopes again this past weekend and recorded one of the runs:







I bent knees more this time, and it felt like my knees and ass nearly scrapped the snow. But after reviewing the vid, it still looks like I can still go even lower? I also did fuller, wider turns. Changed the camera angle view also to include the feet and whole board in the shot.

PS - it was damn hard holding the camera with the long selfie stick that extended out past my board. It feels a bit ackward that I'm not use to yet.


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## deagol (Mar 26, 2014)

That looks pretty descent for the most part. There were a few turns, particularly on heelside, where the edge was disengaged and the carve turned into what they call a "slarve" (sliding carve). This can be used to check your speed, so it's a useful technique. I would say not too much to be overly concerned with. There is definitely opportunity to get lower, but crowding on the run, snow quality, and speed all come into play with that.

The 4th heelside in that vid is the best example (of disengaging the edge).


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## Fielding (Feb 15, 2015)

So you're riding your edges -and that's good- but you're not really carving. More S turns. While your knees were bent, your weight is not dynamic. It's a static load over one part of your board. It needs to be going front to back and up and down through the process of each carved turn. Try doing the exercise where you ride back and forth from side to side across the width of the trail on a wide trail, bouncing your weight down repeatedly to engage the uphill sidecut. Each bounce should cause your edge to engage and thereby turn you up the mountain. It's designed to show you the interplay between board flexing, your weight moving, and turning.


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## Fielding (Feb 15, 2015)

So this is what carving looks like (disregard crazy buttering and flying rail changes).

https://youtu.be/Sl45lNo016E

Dude crosses fall line, carries speed into uphill turn, then turns off his downhill rail (!) --that's possible only because mechanical forces have him glued to the hill.


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## ItchEtrigR (Jan 1, 2012)

Fielding said:


> So you're riding your edges -and that's good- but you're not really carving. More S turns. While your knees were bent, your weight is not dynamic. It's a static load over one part of your board. It needs to be going front to back and up and down through the process of each carved turn. Try doing the exercise where you ride back and forth from side to side across the width of the trail on a wide trail, bouncing your weight down repeatedly to engage the uphill sidecut. Each bounce should cause your edge to engage and thereby turn you up the mountain. It's designed to show you the interplay between board flexing, your weight moving, and turning.


For all the practical purposes of snowboarding he's carving and coming along real well, might not be you what you and RK railing on his edge those 8 meter radius expert non slip carves on early weekdays when he has the hill to himself call carving, but for the lot of us its close enough. Railing a carve like RK is an intended maneuver and it's pretty obvious it's not what the OP is intending to show here.

Sent from my SM-N900 using Tapatalk


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

poutanen said:


> I used to think the same thing, watching CASI Level 4 instructors looked boring to me. Now that I've spent a while trying to fine tune my riding, I actually see the benefit to their style. On steep chutes/moguls/etc I find it much more controllable, and I'm not wasting energy.
> 
> Nevertheless, as long as you're having fun, it's all good...


I have a CASI buddy. He rode with us yesterday and his riding looks extremely disciplined and looks like nothing is being wasted. He can be going pretty fast, and his body and movements just look efficient as if he's just cruising pretty mellow. Definitely looks "boring" as you say.... but you can tell that is some damn clean technique.

Rode with him at Big White a couple weeks ago and there the slopes and general terrain is a bit milder than Whistler. But seeing him at Whistler where it's pretty bumpy, steep and generally more complex... his style was the same haha just clean.


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## Fielding (Feb 15, 2015)

We're not doing anybody a favor by calling a series of quick S turns straight down the fall line carving. Seriously, OP bro's board centerline never really deviates from the fall line by more than like 30 degrees. OK, maybe once it does. I'm not trying to be a dick. I respect what OP bro is doing and I respect his ultimate goal. That's why I recommended the bounce drill. I respect the fact he's posting vid asking for critique. But that doesn't mean I gotta patronize him by saying he's really carving great. I'm a straight shooter.

Check this Canada-bro doing some nice sub-knapton level carving: https://youtu.be/cMV-oA6yvsc

It helps sometimes to look at somebody who is just a couple of notches above you and not someone like Knapton who is full-on ridiculous at softboot carving. I'm not sure I agree with a lot of what he is saying about carving in his vid but the riding is pretty good. It displays a fairly easily attainable level of carving, the kind of thing that most of us can expect to achieve with a little practice, focus, and maybe a lesson or two. Watch how low his ass goes on some of his bigger turns. His body shape and kit make it bit easier to see some of the mechanics. Worth pointing out for OP bro: he's not just gently squatting down. He's going down hard, pushing his weight down through the board to bend the board into the snow. Dynamic weight. Up down, front back. That's how you engage all of your edge. Just imagine how good the guy in this vid would be if he wasn't Canadian.

Talking about carving always falls short. Once you can do it your body knows what it is. But that doesn't mean you can talk about it. It may not be a thing that can be described. 




ItchEtrigR said:


> For all the practical purposes of snowboarding he's carving and coming along real well, might not be you what you and RK railing on his edge those 8 meter radius expert non slip carves on early weekdays when he has the hill to himself call carving, but for the lot of us its close enough. Railing a carve like RK is an intended maneuver and it's pretty obvious it's not what the OP is intending to show here.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N900 using Tapatalk


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## poutanen (Dec 22, 2011)

Fielding said:


> Just imagine how good the guy in this vid would be if he wasn't Canadian.


:eat_my_shorts:

This is a video I like of a forum member carving. It shows what the goal really is, to get super low, and do nice rounded turns that come across the fall line.






I got a great compliment from a fellow patroller the other day. He said when he was uphill behind me, he could see the base of my board as I started every turn.  To do that, you come across the fall line, and then your body leans downhill as you engage your downhill edge to start the next turn. Fun stuff!


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## Fielding (Feb 15, 2015)

In the earlier part of the vid it seemed like his heelside carves ended short and he was only going past perp to the fall line on his toe side turns. But then it got better. On a couple of occasions it looked like he dove to the snow before it was time. But overall pretty nice. If you're gonna ride like that why not get a hardboot rig?



poutanen said:


> :eat_my_shorts:
> 
> This is a video I like of a forum member carving. It shows what the goal really is, to get super low, and do nice rounded turns that come across the fall line.
> 
> ...


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## Mr.Zywall (Jan 5, 2017)

Fielding said:


> So you're riding your edges -and that's good- but you're not really carving. More S turns. While your knees were bent, your weight is not dynamic. It's a static load over one part of your board. It needs to be going front to back and up and down through the process of each carved turn. Try doing the exercise where you ride back and forth from side to side across the width of the trail on a wide trail, bouncing your weight down repeatedly to engage the uphill sidecut. Each bounce should cause your edge to engage and thereby turn you up the mountain. It's designed to show you the interplay between board flexing, your weight moving, and turning.


dam so I'm not actually carving. Sorry Fielding-bro, I guess I'm a worthless human being and fail at life 

On a more serious note, I didn't take offense to any of the posts. I'm not trying to do those euro-carves (not sure if that's even possible at the resort I go to), but I'd like to clean up the technique a bit. So brutal/harsh, but honest criticisms were well received :]

Based on all what you said, an S-turn on edge becomes a carve when:


I deviate from the fall line more to make wider turns
dynamic weight

Are these two an absolute requirement for "carving"? For the first point, most of the time that's not possible at the resort I frequent. It's always a zoo here with the crowd. In that last vid, I already felt half irresponsible going at that speed and taking up that much space for the amount of people there. So it is possible to make short radius, narrow turns and still call it a carve?

Second part, let me see if I understand doing the dynamic weight correctly: Start of the turn, weight more on front foot. Mid turn, center weight on both feet but push down for "heavier weight" to decamber board. End of turn, weight more towards back foot, and you're more weightless because the board springs back up.


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## deagol (Mar 26, 2014)

Mr.Zywall said:


> .....
> Are these two an absolute requirement for "carving"? ....


Not in my opinion.

There are levels of "style" or "aggression" or whatever you want to call it that might make your line down the hill more cool/advanced/stylish, but as long as your edges are carving through the snow (i.e. not sliding) then you are, by definition, carving. 

If you look at your own vid, you will see the track you are leaving behind you. There are portions where you are clearly carving, and a few where you are not fully carving. Of course you could push it harder, faster, more perpendicular to the fall line, get way lower, but not doing those things doesn't mean you are not carving. Your "line" may have segments that are pure (although maybe not super aggressive) carves and segments where there is some sliding mixed-in. No big deal.

My advice: don't let the pressure of performing to someone else's standards through a posted video take the fun out of this for you. Ryan Knapton is a hell of a high standard for anyone to live up to.


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## redlude97 (Jan 9, 2008)

Mr.Zywall said:


> So it is possible to make short radius, narrow turns and still call it a carve?


Yes. 



Epitome of carving style.


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## WasabiCanuck (Apr 29, 2015)

Mr.Zywall said:


> dam so I'm not actually carving. Sorry Fielding-bro, I guess I'm a worthless human being and fail at life
> 
> On a more serious note, I didn't take offense to any of the posts. I'm not trying to do those euro-carves (not sure if that's even possible at the resort I go to), but I'd like to clean up the technique a bit. So brutal/harsh, but honest criticisms were well received :]
> 
> ...


Dude, you look good. This thread is starting to get beyond my skill level but I thought you looked good. That run you were on had a very high nerd ratio in RK's words. Haha. You can't totally open in up and take off the brakes as you said so....Just have fun and try not to run over any board bunnies or kill any little kids. Just keep doing what you are doing. Maybe take a lesson if you really want to improve.

I'm loving all the carving vids though. :grin:


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## Fielding (Feb 15, 2015)

The bar Is rather low. For some people anytime you aren't skidding you're carving. While I appreciate the non-skid line, I'm of the mindset that carving is defying gravity, putting yourself in positions on the hill that deviate significantly from the fall line. Good carving goes uphill. It swerves and turns and cuts across, up, and down. Caving dumps speed by going uphill. Linking a handful of big carved turns is an awesome feeling. When you're doing it you feel it in the pit of your stomach. People on the lift are like damn. Your s turns were not skidded. And that's good. But you were "gravity's bitch" (credit to RK) and nobody was like damn how does he do that. It was just some s turns with minimal deviation from the fall line. CASI level 2 stuff if you believe in CASI. Again, not tryin to be a dickbro. If you post some s turns in the forum and say hey check out this carvin then somebody's gotta say something. If not for you then for the kiddies. Keep at it. Do some drills. Lurk bomber. Pursue the real gforce turns. It's an admirable goal. Solid carving can provide the foundation for all kinds of tricky shit if that's what you're in to.


Mr.Zywall said:


> Fielding said:
> 
> 
> > So you're riding your edges -and that's good- but you're not really carving. More S turns. While your knees were bent, your weight is not dynamic. It's a static load over one part of your board. It needs to be going front to back and up and down through the process of each carved turn. Try doing the exercise where you ride back and forth from side to side across the width of the trail on a wide trail, bouncing your weight down repeatedly to engage the uphill sidecut. Each bounce should cause your edge to engage and thereby turn you up the mountain. It's designed to show you the interplay between board flexing, your weight moving, and turning.
> ...


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## Mr.Zywall (Jan 5, 2017)

deagol said:


> Not in my opinion.
> 
> There are levels of "style" or "aggression" or whatever you want to call it that might make your line down the hill more cool/advanced/stylish, but as long as your edges are carving through the snow (i.e. not sliding) then you are, by definition, carving.
> ...
> ...


deagol, thanks for bring it down to earth a bit. Being on edges and leaving a thin line without skidding, is carving. But there is a spectrum of aggresiveness in the carves. Got it :thumbsup:


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## Mr.Zywall (Jan 5, 2017)

Fielding said:


> The bar Is rather low. For some people anytime you aren't skidding you're carving. While I appreciate the non-skid line, I'm of the mindset that carving is defying gravity, putting yourself in positions on the hill that deviate significantly from the fall line. Good carving goes uphill. It swerves and turns and cuts across, up, and down. Caving dumps speed by going uphill. Linking a handful of big carved turns is an awesome feeling. When you're doing it you feel it in the pit of your stomach. People on the lift are like damn. Your s turns were not skidded. And that's good. But you were "gravity's bitch" (credit to RK) and nobody was like damn how does he do that. It was just some s turns with minimal deviation from the fall line. CASI level 2 stuff if you believe in CASI. Again, not tryin to be a dickbro. If you post some s turns in the forum and say hey check out this carvin then somebody's gotta say something. If not for you then for the kiddies. Keep at it. Do some drills. Lurk bomber. Pursue the real gforce turns. It's an admirable goal. Solid carving can provide the foundation for all kinds of tricky shit if that's what you're in to.


Fielding, I really do appreciate your enthusiasm to push the standards of carving. I've dug through other sites and resources, and it seems that "carving" is nothing more than turns with the back edge exactly following the front edge.

So is it agreeable that my last carve attempts are still pleb-carves, but nonetheless carves? I won't stop there though. I'll still be pushing myself until I achieve your type of next-level carving, aka a _Fielding_-carve


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## Fielding (Feb 15, 2015)

Let me guess: you're a MIllenieal. Either way, I'd like to extend my sincerest congratulations on the occasion of your not skidding.

I thought about it some more and I believe the bright line between carving and not carving exists at turning off of your downhill edge. If you can engage your downhill edge and not eat shit then you are carving. 

Watch this and think about what it means to engage your downhill edge on a turn. 

https://youtu.be/WwCfG1MjAWI

I think it's helpful to watch people who aren't insanely awesome, but instead are just a little better that where you are. 









Mr.Zywall said:


> Fielding said:
> 
> 
> > The bar Is rather low. For some people anytime you aren't skidding you're carving. While I appreciate the non-skid line, I'm of the mindset that carving is defying gravity, putting yourself in positions on the hill that deviate significantly from the fall line. Good carving goes uphill. It swerves and turns and cuts across, up, and down. Caving dumps speed by going uphill. Linking a handful of big carved turns is an awesome feeling. When you're doing it you feel it in the pit of your stomach. People on the lift are like damn. Your s turns were not skidded. And that's good. But you were "gravity's bitch" (credit to RK) and nobody was like damn how does he do that. It was just some s turns with minimal deviation from the fall line. CASI level 2 stuff if you believe in CASI. Again, not tryin to be a dickbro. If you post some s turns in the forum and say hey check out this carvin then somebody's gotta say something. If not for you then for the kiddies. Keep at it. Do some drills. Lurk bomber. Pursue the real gforce turns. It's an admirable goal. Solid carving can provide the foundation for all kinds of tricky shit if that's what you're in to.
> ...


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## Jcb890 (Dec 12, 2014)

Just chiming in to say this thread is great. While Fielding's criticisms are harsh, he's just trying to tell it like it is and be helpful at the same time. Some of these videos are great and I'm going to try some of their training techniques my next few times out because I know my carving/slashing could certainly use better technique.


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## BoardieK (Dec 21, 2015)

I think you are being way too critical. I've just spent 2 months in the alps during which time I saw precisely 3 hardbooters doing what was in the video, I saw 2 expert freestylers carving up icy pistes and jumping without a care for the conditions and then there were the 500 others. Of the 500 probably a few dozen showed any hint of ability for carving better than the OP but I can't say I saw many do that. I'm sure there were scores of very good snowboarders with well rounded skills in other areas, but not in carving.

What I'm saying is that the OP is making good progress and with his determination it's pretty evident he WILL be a good carver by this time next year, so why keep knocking him down?


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## Jcb890 (Dec 12, 2014)

BoardieK said:


> I think you are being way too critical. I've just spent 2 months in the alps during which time I saw precisely 3 hardbooters doing what was in the video, I saw 2 expert freestylers carving up icy pistes and jumping without a care for the conditions and then there were the 500 others. Of the 500 probably a few dozen showed any hint of ability for carving better than the OP but I can't say I saw many do that. I'm sure there were scores of very good snowboarders with well rounded skills in other areas, but not in carving.
> 
> What I'm saying is that the OP is making good progress and with his determination it's pretty evident he WILL be a good carver by this time next year, so why keep knocking him down?


He asked for a critique so that is what he is getting. He seems to not have thin skin and is taking the criticism well. Sure, someone like @Fielding is being quite straight-forward and harsh, but he's not lying. People like the OP aren't on here asking for advice and critiques so they can keep their skill level the same or at the same as an average rider/skier. He and others are here reading, viewing, etc. in order to progress.

Someone who isn't good at riding may look at me and think I am good at carving. In reality, I know I'm not that good. As RK would say "That's dogshit!" (my technique).


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## BoardieK (Dec 21, 2015)

A bit of encouragement never goes amiss.

Personally I don't think full-on lay-down euro carving looks that aesthetically pleasing, most of the Japanese video looks good though.


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## Fielding (Feb 15, 2015)

Stretched out on the snow doesn't do it for me either. I just like drawing a good squiggly line and feeling some Gs. I like the roller coaster feeling of holding speed through turns. I like the springboard feeling I get when I unweight the board coming out of a big carved turn. 

I'm totally not really trying to bust op's balls. Just trying to provide critique and some suggestions. I'm on the same journey.

The thing about carving is that it's achievable by regular folks. It's not like flying 20 feet over a half pipe or backflipping some big ass jump. You don't have to stare death in the face or be a born Olympic gymnast. Old men carve. I think the average age of an active bomber participant is like 58 or so. That's just a guess but I bet I'm not far off. When abovebro says he didn't see anybody carving the Alps it's because: the overall state of snowboarding is shit. 90% of riders stop improving after about 10 outings. (Fake stat but I know I'm right.) They just do the same sad skid turns and then they wanna "catch some air" or slide off a box in the park. Or maybe they wanna go really fast right down the fall line and then skid stop. And that's pretty much it. Just because most people ride like shit doesn't mean it's good. Good form is not unattainable. 

Snowboarding could have been different but market forces propelled it in the direction of floppy boots, mellow boards, and skiddy turns. Thank Burton. 90% of gear out there is really just meant to be accessible or fashionable. And so the state of the art has lagged. The Xgames and the olympics have snowboarding but what they feature is more about spinning in the air than it is about riding on the snow. Seriously!? How many people are gonna go to the hill this weekend and do a triple corker? 

But now there's a kind of a quiet revolution. Ok, that's an overstatement. Carving is for sale! Board makers are playing up the carving thing because of what I said above -anybody can do it. Not sure it's sincere or here to stay but at least it's being mentioned. The problem is that the shit they're selling doesn't actually work well for the riding they show in their promo materials -unless you're a natural shredder. Too skinny, slumpy edges from the factory, bindings that have major limits on angles that can be achieved. It's kind of a scam. Nonetheless, I like the message even if I don't like the products.

I say go forth and carve. It's doable. It's sustainable. It's pretty to look at. It's fun because it feels good. Your enjoyment will directly correspond with your ability. So pursue the art of the carved turn.






BoardieK said:


> A bit of encouragement never goes amiss.
> 
> Personally I don't think full-on lay-down euro carving looks that aesthetically pleasing, most of the Japanese video looks good though.


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

Fielding said:


> Let me guess: you're a Millenieal.





Fielding said:


> Just imagine how good the guy in this vid would be if he wasn't Canadian.


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## deagol (Mar 26, 2014)

There is a lot of truth to what you say Fielding...

But I still think the OP is on a better track than most of the people I see. This sort of agrees with your most recent post.


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## poutanen (Dec 22, 2011)

Fielding said:


> I say go forth and carve. It's doable. It's sustainable. It's pretty to look at. It's fun because it feels good. Your enjoyment will directly correspond with your ability. So pursue the art of the carved turn.


Couple good carves in this vid...






I gotta say I'm agreeing with Fielding here more. Yes, going from skidded turns to beginning to carve is a great feeling... Going from beginner carves to full out G force inducing hand on the snow rip it carves is a much better feeling. It's one of the few things that still gets my adrenaline flowing on the hill.

I've been saying for years, that the problem with most snowboarders, is that they're happy with basically intermediate (at best) riding. I get it, different strokes for different folks, but there's nothing like the feeling of railing a carve so hard it feels like you're going to burst through the bottom of the board. I think if people knew how good it felt, they'd want to pursue it.

So I'm going to echo Fielding and say "Go forth and carve", just have fun doing it...


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## chomps1211 (Mar 30, 2011)

_Suuuunny_ *Beaches!!!!* :blink:

I wuz _just_ there last week!!! 

Funny how he makes that terrain look so..... eeeeasy!!! :laugh:


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## t21 (Dec 29, 2010)

To the OP, keep at it and enjoy the art of carving someday:smile: lots of good pointers,critiques and what not from everyone here. I love to carve myself and i am looking to purchase a wide board just to enjoy it more:wink: Goodluck and keep shredding!!


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## ItchEtrigR (Jan 1, 2012)

I'm no expert but I though the OP was doing fine and shown obvious progress from the first clip he posted, he took the advice he received and put it into to practice the very next time out. Only thing I know he had a lot more fun shredding up the groomer than the rest of us had discussing whether he's carving or not.

Sent from my SM-N900 using Tapatalk


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## Mr.Zywall (Jan 5, 2017)

My latest attempt this past weekend on one of the runs, start to finish, no edits. Overall, it feels like I’m progressing sideways. I did try out the whole dynamic weight thing at the beginning, tried to get lower a few times, but also some parts my lines washed out. By no means am I making excuses, but I’d like to point out:



snow was mush and too soft. I felt my edges sinking.
nerd ratio (in RK’s words haha) was too high. It limits how aggressive I can be or how wide my turns are
holding the selfie stick to record limits my mobility. Especially true on toe side carves where I’m not flexible enough to bend arm behind my back
the whole terrain was too choppy to be on a soft-flex board. You can see the board and my legs chattering




00:21s - tried some dynamic weights for a few carves. Looks like they can be exaggerated more.
0:46s - one of the few times my legs bend a good 90°
1:07, 1:57 - knees finally almost scrape the snow
2:17 - legs burning like mad, needed a straight-leg break lol






unfortunately this was my last day of the season, given the current snow conditions. After that run, it got really bad so I spent the rest of the day in the park. Too bad I couldn’t quite get the dynamic weight down yet.

Till next season my friend…


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## 16gkid (Dec 5, 2012)

As someone who went all in on extreme carving this season, this thread makes me happy:laugh2:, to the OP, looks like youre making good progress, if you want to get serious, I suggest getting a wide, full camber, carving board, like a Donek.


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## 16gkid (Dec 5, 2012)

Fielding said:


> Stretched out on the snow doesn't do it for me either. I just like drawing a good squiggly line and feeling some Gs. I like the roller coaster feeling of holding speed through turns. I like the springboard feeling I get when I unweight the board coming out of a big carved turn.
> 
> I'm totally not really trying to bust op's balls. Just trying to provide critique and some suggestions. I'm on the same journey.
> 
> ...


Its like you pulled my thoughts right out of my head


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## Anais (Aug 14, 2016)

Fielding said:


> This is better I think:
> 
> https://youtu.be/mvADH_dLb4w
> 
> ...


:jumping1:good old Ryan Knapton! I love him, making things looking soooo easy and stylish!
Especially loving his carving tutorials, but have to say... not getting it... one of those looks easy and stylish, but difficult to action tut... :crying:


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## Anais (Aug 14, 2016)

Fielding said:


> We're not doing anybody a favor by calling a series of quick S turns straight down the fall line carving. Seriously, OP bro's board centerline never really deviates from the fall line by more than like 30 degrees. OK, maybe once it does.


I think it's a different way of understanding and interpreting the terminology "carving". You guys might be those crazy euro carvers laying down really low with your whole body touching the ground and doing the full circle and revert out type. But in many snowboard instructor training manuals for many disciplines (eg. SBINZ, CASI etc.) carving is simply leaving a thin line on the ground behind you, using your boards side cut to do the job instead of pivoting with rotational movement as skidded turns. From his 2nd video it looks more apparent that he was doing that pretty OK. It's just instead of big closed carve turns, he was going narrow open turns - carving still. 

If even the snowboard instructor certification bodies have set the standards as such, then it's probably fair to say, that's the professional definition of carving in the industry. 
But I do appreciate your enthusiasm and perfectionism which pushes the limit and brings things to the next level. And it does look like he took it in very well and progressed a great deal based on that.

However have to say, if you're explaining this to someone trying to get their instructor's certificate (at least for SBINZ and CASI, not sure about that crazy European certification system though, apparently they're known to be much much harder), you'd be confusing them like hell and doing them no good.


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## Gregory (Jun 18, 2017)

Good progress.
Tutorials on carving that I've seen so far concentrate on adding "everything that works" into the mix, without really separating different techniques. A carving turn can be done with up-motion, as well as with down-motion or with locked height. Angulation and lean are separate tools too, so don't rush to add angulation. 
Carving can be done solely with lean angle, and there's no need to "get low" or whatever. It can be done on quite small speeds and with pretty soft boards too, for learning purposes.
One thing that I see in your video is that when you switch from front to back edge your upper body stays in almost same position - that's because you are intuitively adding angulation into the mix. Try pretty much locking your body position, so when you switch to the back edge you actually lean back with your shoulders too, like a statue.
Right now you are too active without actually knowing what move does what.

Start with halfturns - while riding straight down the fall line start increasing lean angle very slowly. Make sure the board doesn't change its direction just yet. Keep increasing lean angle. You will have to do it throughout the turn. You will ABSOLUTELY HAVE TO KEEP INCREASING YOUR LEAN ANGLE throughout the turn - if you stop doing it but want to keep turning - the board will start to drift. Do halfturns on both edges and your goal is to have a clean line throughout, and you have to start riding uphill at the end of the turn.

Then it's time to try 1.5 turns (I'm skipping a few exercises here since you already feel the carve). After completing the halfturn change the edge (don't add angulation to your body position at any point just yet) change the edge and do a full carved turn (whole 1.5 turns have to leave an upside - down question mark line on snow). I believe you will do that easily when finishing with a full front edge carve, but back edge will take much longer to do flawlessly. Again, you must keep increasing lean angle throughout the turn, and you may start adding a bit of angulation towards the end of the turn (lifting toes higher/creating angles in your body).

Below is just a short example, couldn't even call it full swing carving since the slope is narrow. Also some angulation is added into the mix, as well as getting low during the carve and quick up-motion during edge change, which is not set in stone - you can do the opposite just as well. This video just serves the purpose to show that you can carve any board - even this noodle-soft Nitro Haze
https://youtu.be/8aWLJueXHsE&server=vimeo.com&show_title=0&show_byline=0&show_portrait=0&color=&fullscreen=1&autoplay=0&loop=0" />https://youtu.be/8aWLJueXHsE&server=vimeo.com&show_title=0&show_byline=0&show_portrait=0&color=&fullscreen=1&autoplay=0&loop=0" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowscriptaccess="always" width="640" height="385">

https://youtu.be/8aWLJueXHsE?t=6


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## speedjason (May 2, 2013)

Not bad not bad. The idea is to see how big of a groove you leave behind. Should be around less than an inch. 
Once you are comfortable staying on edge you need to start doing your fore-aft motion to start and finish the turn.
Then after that cross over and cross under type of edge transition.
Carving is like fine art once done properly.


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