# degree of rotation confusion...



## jegnorge (Feb 15, 2010)

ok so maybe someone can clear this up. for example. cork 5 is an off axis flip with a half spin. it counts as a 540 because you add the flip and spin, 360+180=540.

but if someone does a backflip with 180 at the end, everyone calls it a backflip 180. AFAIK i've never heard anyone call it a backflip 540. but the degree of rotation is the same as a cork 5. 360 (flip) + 180 = 540.

or do people just call it whatever they want as long as the trick looks cool?

when torstein did the triple at x games. people call it a 180 triple back. but if you add it up, 180+360+360+360=1260. so it can also be called a "triple back 1260"?

and the trick bs dub cork 1080. if you add it up, two flips = 720 degrees, and a 360 spin in the middle of the two flips. so can people also call it a double cork 360? (in reference to the logic behind how a backflip 180 is named)

confused yet? lol


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## ThunderChunky (Oct 1, 2011)

It's called a cork five because there is a 540 in the cork. It can't be a cork without at least a 180. Torstein's first triple cork was actually only a 540.


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## jegnorge (Feb 15, 2010)

you just confused me even more lol. how is torstein's triple a 540?

i thought that in a cork trick, there're rotations happening on two difference axes. not sure about the technical name, something like longitudinal, lateral, and vertical axis. just pick two out of these three lol.

actually the backside rodeo 5 is a better example. it's practically like a barrel roll backflip with a 180 at the end. but no one ever calls it a barrel roll flip 180. lol


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## snowklinger (Aug 30, 2011)

just keep shreddin the gnar and chillin with the bro brah's, it will all come out in the wash :thumbsup:


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## ThunderChunky (Oct 1, 2011)

There is only a named degree spin on one axis. When you do a flip, it's a flip. Not a vertical 360. When you do a flip and a 360, it is still a 360 degree rotation and there is still a flip. When flips/rolls combine in a single motion, you get things such as Rodeos, Corks, Misty Flip, Under Flip. There are tons of names. If a person goes off a jump and does a flip, then does a 180 or 360 after the flip is done and lands. That is a back flip 360. A cork is defined a an off axis spin. Thats how Torstein was able to do a triple in just three spins, because all you need in a cork is a single rotation. If you watch That's it That's all, Rice's "triple cork" isn't that. It is a triple back flip 540. Because he completes two back flips and then the third back flip has a 540 at the end. Any more questions? I'll be glad to answer as much as I can, but once you get into misty flips and under flips I can't help. :laugh:


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## jegnorge (Feb 15, 2010)

^^^ ok i get what you said and it makes sense but, look at seb toots triple cork Seb Toots Triple cork 1440 - Red Bull performance camp - YouTube starts at 1:23.

the whole trick he only spins at the beginning and at the end before land, the rest you see three flips. but somehow it's called 1440. if they only count rotations on one axis, i dont see how it could add up to 1440. it does make sense if they add the 3 flips (1080 degrees) and the spins (360 degrees), now we got 1440.

or the dub back rodeo 9, in this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Eah3Tr1PI4 starts at 0:35. you see two backflips and a 180 at the end. but everyone calls it a 900, not dub back 180.

grrrr... too confusing. who makes up these rules? or lack of. lol


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## threej21 (Jan 2, 2011)

jegnorge said:


> ^^^ ok i get what you said and it makes sense but, look at seb toots triple cork Seb Toots Triple cork 1440 - Red Bull performance camp - YouTube starts at 1:23.
> 
> the whole trick he only spins at the beginning and at the end before land, the rest you see three flips. but somehow it's called 1440. if they only count rotations on one axis, i dont see how it could add up to 1440. it does make sense if they add the 3 flips (1080 degrees) and the spins (360 degrees), now we got 1440.
> 
> ...



sorry dude, but if all you see is a 360 degree spin in that 1440, then you sir need to get your eyes checked...pick either tip of his board and try to count how many times it changes which one is going forward... wish it was in slomo but looks like at least a 720 or 900 right at the beginning and then he continues spinning as he is flipping for the remainder of the trick....i am in no way an expert on snowboard tricks but i def see lots of spinning going on in the trick


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## WasatchMan (Aug 30, 2011)

I've been snowboarding since I was 8 years old and I couldn't tell you a single trick other than a 360 :laugh:


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## jegnorge (Feb 15, 2010)

threej21 said:


> sorry dude, but if all you see is a 360 degree spin in that 1440, then you sir need to get your eyes checked...pick either tip of his board and try to count how many times it changes which one is going forward... wish it was in slomo but looks like at least a 720 or 900 right at the beginning and then he continues spinning as he is flipping for the remainder of the trick....i am in no way an expert on snowboard tricks but i def see lots of spinning going on in the trick


not gonna argue about the 1440 cuz it's a big trick. but do you get my logic with the dub back rodeo 9?

edit: about the 1440. i played the video in slow mo, maybe it's a difference in understanding. but seb toots is goofy, so in the beginning he does a backside 180, then everything became corked, following is the triple inversions, then at the end he spins another 180 so he lands goofy again.

so that's how i counted a 360 spin, 180 to start, 180 to finish. and everything in between, he went inverted 3 times.


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## ThunderChunky (Oct 1, 2011)

Yah, that double back rodeo nine wasn't really a nine. BUT, I am not 100% on what a rodeo is. I know it when I see it, but it has different variations. As far as Seb Touts triple cork, think like this. Even in a cork, picture the tip and tail of the board and make an imaginary line on the horizontal axis and every time the tip or tail crosses it, it counts as a spin. I'll agree, that doesn't really looks like a 1440, but it is. Corks are staring to get unruly today. People are using the term cork really vaguely. There are also sooooo many versions of a cork it's ridiculous. 

And another thing I wanna put on the record, because it is grossly misnamed and pisses me off. This is not a back flip, it is a roll, or cork to some. This is someone I know doing a roll Jared kern backflip 2 - YouTube

This is a back flip Snowboard learn the Backflip - YouTube

Some people are gonna argue, I don't care. It's not a back flip and fuck you. :cheeky4:


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## jegnorge (Feb 15, 2010)

^ i thought that roll, is a barrel roll backflip. and the 2nd video it's a wildcat backflip. even though their rotations (flips) happen on a different axis, they rotate "backwards".

LOL

as for rodeo, i just thought it's a "frontside cork". in that same seb toots triple where he bailed a triple rodeo. noticed how he spun frontside instead of the bs triple where he landed.

kinda like how people are now calling the dub mctwist, dub cork now too cuz they don't want it to have any association with SW, since everyone thinks, dub mctwist = SW.


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## ThunderChunky (Oct 1, 2011)

Yah, people just slap double cork or triple cork on any thing that spins and flips a lot now. It's getting annoying, but the term is pretty loose to begin with soooo.... Anyway from MY understand, I could easily be wrong, a traditional Rodeo is a back flip but then halfway through you rotate a 360. You can extend to rotation as much as you want, that's just a stock version. Again there are different versions, such as Travis Rice's. It is more off axis from the start, almost looking like a roll instead of a back flip rodeo.


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## jegnorge (Feb 15, 2010)

looks like this debate will continue forever. i guess when i land an awesome trick, i can call it whatever i want. lol


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## ThunderChunky (Oct 1, 2011)

That's what Travis Pastrana thought:laugh:.


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## Qball (Jun 22, 2010)

Every flip you see in a corked spin = 360 degrees of rotation. 3 corked spins = 1080 plus the two 180s = *1440*


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## threej21 (Jan 2, 2011)

jegnorge said:


> not gonna argue about the 1440 cuz it's a big trick. but do you get my logic with the dub back rodeo 9?
> 
> edit: about the 1440. i played the video in slow mo, maybe it's a difference in understanding. but seb toots is goofy, so in the beginning he does a backside 180, then everything became corked, following is the triple inversions, then at the end he spins another 180 so he lands goofy again.
> 
> so that's how i counted a 360 spin, 180 to start, 180 to finish. and everything in between, he went inverted 3 times.


how did you view it in slo mo? 

why are you discounting any spins that are being done while flipping?? just because you are upside down does not mean you cant still be spinning, that seems to be where you are getting confused. for instance, i come from a wakeboarding background so im used to counting spins while watching videos and what not, and flip tricks that involve 360* or greater spins are called 'mobes' and its a lil easier to spot because to do a spin you have to do a handle pass behind your back (generally, there are other ways to spin, osmosis, whirly, etc but i wont get too much into wakeboarding) but in a mobe trick the rider will be completely upside down while still passing the handle behind his back, therefore you can be spinning 3,5,7, etc while flipping at the same time

again, esp since you said you watched it in slomo...watch it again, and pick either tip of his board and count how many times he goes from reg stance to switch stance(mid air obviously) ....

as for the rodeo, yea dont know about that one, looks nothing like a 9, but perhaps your logic is right in the "rodeo" realm of tricks that they do add invert spins with actual spins together to get one #..again dont know enough about sb tricks to be certain



ThunderChunky said:


> And another thing I wanna put on the record, because it is grossly misnamed and pisses me off. This is not a back flip, it is a roll, or cork to some.


yes, rolls and flips are different...i 100% agree. rolls are generally more like an inverted cartwheel than a flip...but you also cant get too caught up in the names because people name shit pretty weird in these sports...and i know at least in wakeboarding, whoever invents/does a trick first, names it..
to go back to referencing wakeboarding...friends will ask if i can do a 'backflip' on my wakeboard, and the correct answer is that there isnt such a thing...the most common "backflip" in wakeboarding is actually correctly called a backroll..as seen here
Slow Motion Backroll Wakeboard - YouTube

do you see what i mean about being more of a cartwheel?

the closest thing in wakeboarding to a true backflip is named a 'tantrum' . to me its a back flip b/c you actually square your shoulders to the wake (ramp) and flip your heels directly over your head... as seen here
wakeboard tantrum - YouTube



and since im posting vids, lemme show you what i mean about the 'mobes' or inverted spins to maybe help OP grasp the idea of spinning and flipping at the same time

Dum Dum - Wakeboarding - YouTube

that was a Dum Dum, which is a ts frontroll with a backside 360


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## threej21 (Jan 2, 2011)

Qball said:


> Every flip you see in a corked spin = 360 degrees of rotation. 3 corked spins = 1080 plus the two 180s = *1440*


there ya go...forget my novel above..while typing it, qball explained it perfectly very simply..and even made me understand better

sounds basically like "cork" is really more off axis spinning then it is flipping..granted some get more off axis then others makeing it look more like an actual flip/roll

for wakeboarding, those are usually just called off axis spins, and in teaching an off axis 360 for example, they tell you to just throw a lazy backroll to put your feet more behind you then above you


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## jegnorge (Feb 15, 2010)

threej21 said:


> again, esp since you said you watched it in slomo...watch it again, and pick either tip of his board and count how many times he goes from reg stance to switch stance(mid air obviously) ....


to view the seb toots triple i had to download the video, then watched it in quicktime frame by frame. when he did the backside triple cork 14, this is what i saw:

-he takes off goofy
-does 180 so now he's regular in the air
-does 3 corked flips while in regular stance
-before he lands he does another 180
-lands it in goofy.

so this is how i see it, 180+360+360+360+180=1440


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## IdahoFreshies (Jul 9, 2011)

gaaahhhh!


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## ThunderChunky (Oct 1, 2011)

:laugh:What?


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## jegnorge (Feb 15, 2010)

ThunderChunky said:


> :laugh:What?


exactly! lol


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## john doe (Nov 6, 2009)

It's really hard to explain off axis spins if you've never done them. Get on a trampoiline and try some out.


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## jegnorge (Feb 15, 2010)

john doe said:


> It's really hard to explain off axis spins if you've never done them. Get on a trampoiline and try some out.


there are also off axis flips though. off axis flip and off axis spin are different. assume you do trampoline, you should know this.


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## jegnorge (Feb 15, 2010)

ok, i have made a video showing y'all what i mean. with commentary. let me know what you think.

seb toots triple slo mo.mov - YouTube

to do the math. 

for the FS triple (triple rodeo): first 180 after takeoff + 3 off axis flips = 1260
for the BS triple: first 180 after take off + 3 flips + another 180 before landing = 1440

the first 180 and first flip happen nearly at the same time so it's hard to tell. but for the 2nd and 3rd flips you can definitely tell that one of his legs is always in front of the other, meaning he didn't spin. because if he did spin, his legs would've switched places.

also because he's corked (off axis) his back leg's radius of rotation is higher than his front leg (his back leg makes a bigger "circle" than the front leg).


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