# turning to a stop



## bkrieger (Oct 26, 2011)

So I've been riding for a couple years, and last year I started getting better at it. I just went up Killington for the first time this weekend. It seems that, when I traverse on my toeside, I can begin to link turns to my heal side, and then back to toe side, but on certain steep spots, I end up staying on my toeside, and turn to a stop. When my uphill edge is gripping the snow, I panic a little, and don't want to lift my toes from gripping the now, and lean into the downhill edge. I also tend to traverse across the hill too much, and then turn, rather than taking a straighter angle down the hill. Are there any tips to turn with more control going down hill at a better angle? 
I watched the snowprofessor and snowolf videos online, and the basic idea that I got from that is, for a toeside turn, put your wight on your front toes, then when the board begins to turn, put weight on your back toes. For a heel turn, put your weight on your front heel, then when the board begins to turn, put your weight on your back heels. Since it seems there are so many steps, I am thinking that is why I am going across the hill so much after each turn, and when the board is going across the hill, say on my toes, it is hard, especially on a steep spot, to switch from the uphill edge, to the downhill edge without panicking. Any tips would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks


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## speedjason (May 2, 2013)

sometimes you just gonna go balls out and do it.
practice fast switching edges on green runs. really use the pop of your board to fast switching edges.
on steeps and we all do this is putting too much weight on your back foot then you just kind of locked in that edge not being able to comfortably switch to the other edge.


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## ksup3erb (Jan 25, 2013)

Couple things.

1. there is nothing wrong with traversing the whole hill. It suggests to me that you are completing your turns. Most people who struggle linking turns actually do not complete turns properly.

2. there is nothing wrong with coming to a complete stop on your toeside. It sounds like you know what to do to start your board going again and to get on your heel side. Next time try doing it before you come to a complete stop. Then earlier and earlier. 

3. Your fear of falling downhill while on your toe side is normal and common. Try *looking* in the direction you want the board to go before the board goes.

It's harder to learn to snowboard slowly and in control than fast and out of control. You seem to be doing fine.

I don't know what speedjason is talking about. Locked edges is a good thing, buddy.


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## behi (Feb 27, 2013)

ksup3erb said:


> I don't know what speedjason is talking about. Locked edges is a good thing, buddy.


I think he just means that it's quite difficult to steer, if the weight is back.

Anyway, if you are panicking, you likely instinctively put your weight back. That will make turning very difficult and slow. If you put your weight forward, you can turn much faster and tighter.

If your turns are tight, there is much less need for speed control and you don't need to complete your turns. On steeper stuff, you need dynamic turns to do that (snowprof has videos for that, I think).


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## ksup3erb (Jan 25, 2013)

Why are we assuming that he's keeping his weight back and that's why he's stopping or finding it hard to turn. If so he wouldn't be coming to a stop, he'd be going back down the fall line switch.

This sounds like a mental block, not a physical one.


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## bkrieger (Oct 26, 2011)

Thanks for all the help. I will make sure I am leaning forward next time out. I think the main reason I am turning to a stop is, when my up hill edge is engaged, and I'm going across the hill at the end of a turn, I think I am worrying about switching from the uphill edge, to the downhill edge, especially on a steep spot, and I worry when switching to the down hill edge on a steep spot, the edge won't be engaged at first. Also, I may be going through the turn for too long, and it's harder to switch edges when I'm traversing across the hill.
Also, I noticed when at the end of a turn,usually my toe edge, I don't know how to explain this, but my front leg gets locked, and I have to wait for it to unlock to go into the next turn. This doesn't happen all the time.


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## behi (Feb 27, 2013)

ksup3erb said:


> Why are we assuming that he's keeping his weight back and that's why he's stopping or finding it hard to turn. If so he wouldn't be coming to a stop, he'd be going back down the fall line switch.


No, he wouldn't necessarily. I certainly never did when when having the weight back.

I read between the lines that he is picking up too much speed while turning and thus there is an excessive braking/traversing phase.

Most people starting out have the weight back - being centered over the board feels like you are leaning forward. Anyway, having the weight more forward will help with faster turning/picking up less speed during the turn and feeling more in control (boosting confidence).


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## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

A few things: Mostly mental….

First you have to make the decision to commit.

Two, you need to get mentally ahead and see where you want to make the turn…that is while you are traversing, spot the place where you want to turn.

Three, as you approach this spot, you hopefully have a bit of movement/speed so that as you release your uphill edge…you are moving (if you are stopped or not moving fast enough, when you release the uphill edge you will immediately engage the downhill edge and thus catch the downhill edge and bail). If you are moving fast enough you will essentially continue to travel in the same direction on the new downhill edge and it is on that downhill edge is where you are initiating the turn (yes it is counter-intuitive...but you can't initiate the next/new turn on the uphill edge). However you will also have weighted the nose and thus the nose will be dropping into the fall line. Followed by turn initiation and locking into the new uphill edge. 

A couple finer points…if you are too transverse or perpendicular to the fall line….it will take a longer a time for the nose to drop into the fall line and in general be making more of C shaped turns. But if you nose is within 45 degrees of the fall line it is easy and quick to engage the next edge and you will generally always be going fast enough that you will not catch a downhill edge and thus be making longer shallower S turns. Again if you are too transverse/perpendicular you either have to wait a tad longer for the nose to drop into the fall line...you will be briefly flatbased with nose pointing directly down the fall line before you initiate/engage the next uphill edge....THIS IS THE COMMIT AND TRUST place/time. OR you have to do a hop-like turn to quickly bring the board around to the next uphill edge to engage it. The hop turn does have it’s uses, like in tight chutes or very steep where you don’t want to point it.

Lastly, you have to trust your board….the board will ride the hill (straight down the fall line)….the issue is are you in control of the board to make it do something it does not naturally want to do. Trust the board.


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## bkrieger (Oct 26, 2011)

Thank you very much. You have been very helpful. I will have to try your advice next time out. I think the reason I traverse so much across the hills, is, on the videos they tell you to first put weight on your front foot, then when the edge is engaged, put weight on the back foot. By the time I put weight on my back foot, and the edge is engaged, the board is going across the hill in a traverse. Also, I am thinking my knee locking up might have to do with not bending my knees enough. I'll have to look at the videos more and see how much to bend my knees on both toeside and heelside turns.

Thanks for the help.


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## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

bkrieger said:


> I watched the snowprofessor and snowolf videos online, and the basic idea that I got from that is, *for a toeside turn, put your wight on your front toes, then when the board begins to turn, put weight on your back toes. For a heel turn, put your weight on your front heel, then when the board begins to turn, put your weight on your back heels. Since it seems there are so many steps, *I am thinking that is why I am going across the hill so much after each turn, and when the board is going across the hill, say on my toes, it is hard, especially on a steep spot, to switch from the uphill edge, to the downhill edge without panicking. Any tips would be greatly appreciated.
> 
> Thanks


One thing is that to explain it and to think of all the steps...your brain is too slow to think of all the steps and execute. Perhaps thinking of all the steps can be done on the bunny hill where you are going slow...but on a on a blue/black run you can't think fast enough...so you just have to do it. Thus what you can do is go back to a easy slope and practice making the turns...starting slow, then pick up the pace of the turns until you don't have to think about...you just do it.

For most folks this is a plateau...where they mentally know how to turn and their body generally has the ability to do it...But their head gets in the way...you can't think fast enough on a steeper slope. Thus what is often recommended is just to find folks who are better and mob with them, trying to keep up....thus your focus is trying to keep up and you gradually realize
that you can trust your body's neuro-muscular programed responses without thinking about executing all the individual steps. And when you are flying down the hill at 30-50 mph...if you think about steps in your turn...well that was 50 yards ago....and it is more important to read the terrain and potential hazards that are 100-200 yards in front of you....because it comes up fast....so just like driving a car...ideally you are mentally driving 1/4+ mile ahead and not driving to what is happening under you right now.

Hopefully this makes sense.


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## ksup3erb (Jan 25, 2013)

Wrath's calling you stupid.


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## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

ksup3erb said:


> Wrath's calling you stupid.


Nah....just a little retarded....but the brah has potential


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## speedjason (May 2, 2013)

wrathfuldeity said:


> starting slow, then pick up the pace of the turns until you don't have to think about...you just do it.
> .


yep spend a day on green just switch the shit out of your edges.
start slow like change edge every 2-3 seconds. then do quicker and quicker. do it like 10 runs so you can do it without even thinking about it. as you go faster and faster be dynamic as well cuz your upper body needs to keep up with your lower body when you switching quick or you will lose balance or catch an edge. if you are lazy on your board, your board will be lazy too. as you go faster and faster you will notice you will be twisting your board more and more to engage the front edge before engaging the back.


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## bkrieger (Oct 26, 2011)

Thanks, Ill definitely practice what you guys said. I'll also have to hit the gym harder on my legs. I have been, but by the middle of the day, by quads are shit, and I'm not strong enough to turn.

I know it takes time. 

Thanks


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## bkrieger (Oct 26, 2011)

I just want to follow up on what I mean by my knee locking up. When making a toe side turn, my knee of my front leg bends towards my back leg, and the back leg is straighter. I have to wait to complete my turn, to situate myself, and allow my front leg to kind of unlock before I can begin a heel side turn. Can this be from not enough knee bend or a too narrow stance?


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## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

idk what ur talking about...but

toeside... bend or drive your leading knee to the center of the turn...you will also notice a dropping of your leading shoulder, your head/eyes are also looking to the center of the hill...look back uphill...do not twist your torso to look back down the hill) and you should feel pressure on the ball of foot ....then when going to heelside

swing your leading knee toward the nose (you should notice the pressure on the little toe side of your leading foot)....this will torsionally twist the board and engage the nose heelside contact point (thus dropping to the heelside edge)...you will also be turning your head to look back over your leading should and you will also slightly raise your leading shoulder....however don't twist your shoulder's too open...(remember you are grabbing your pant leg of the trailing side with your trailing hand...this will keep you from over rotating)


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## ksup3erb (Jan 25, 2013)

bkrieger said:


> I just want to follow up on what I mean by my knee locking up. When making a toe side turn, my knee of my front leg bends towards my back leg, and the back leg is straighter. I have to wait to complete my turn, to situate myself, and allow my front leg to kind of unlock before I can begin a heel side turn. Can this be from not enough knee bend or a too narrow stance?


What angle is that front binding set at? It looks like something close to zero degrees. That can't be comfortable.


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## bkrieger (Oct 26, 2011)

+15 front and +6 back. I had it set at reference. I was actually just reading online about stance. I didn't realize that for Burton Est, when set at reference, the stance is set back toward the tale. Is this correct?


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## ksup3erb (Jan 25, 2013)

bkrieger said:


> +15 front and +6 back. I had it set at reference. I was actually just reading online about stance. I didn't realize that for Burton Est, when set at reference, the stance is set back toward the tale. Is this correct?


OK, my bad. it looked whack in the picture.

Whether or not you have set back at the refernece points depends on your board. If you have a true twin or directional twin board your reference points should be the same distnace from the tips.

The reason why your knee is locking is because you are not unweighting the board. As you go to change edge you have to unweight the board by bringing your torso closer to the snow by squatting (not bending at the waist). At that moment you should be able to move the board freely. Get real low.


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## bkrieger (Oct 26, 2011)

Thanks, I'll try that. You're right, I haven't been getting low enough.


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