# VIDEO - critics welcome. Pain in quad when riding.



## MarshallV82 (Apr 6, 2011)

Your video is private bro! 

Make it unlisted.


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## Klang180 (Feb 8, 2012)

Thanks a lot now unlisted.


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## readimag (Aug 10, 2011)

Still not working on the link you posted


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## Pigpen (Feb 3, 2013)

Summary of video: Still private....


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## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

worked when clicked on link but I could embed it...:dunno:

idk about your quad ache...but you looked smooth and efficient...yet too static...ur kind of just rolling your knees/ankles from edge to edge. imo...not an instructor, get up and down more, move more fore/aft along the board, really get on the nose and rail the turns....get more dynamic. One thing that has helped my legs is to use neoprene compression sleeves on my calves...have a lot better endurance.


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## chomps1211 (Mar 30, 2011)

This will probably help in getting you a few critiques.


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## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

ur also moving your body back and forth over the board. Try to keep the nose and the leading shoulder in the fall line and start moving the board under your body...cross-under turns...get looowww, suck up your knees and snap the board from edge to edge under you.


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## stillz (Jan 5, 2010)

Really solid riding. Your upper body is quiet and is aligned with the board, so your balance was stable. Your turns are smooth and have good shape. It is well developed basic riding, but you only use a small range of motion. Get more dynamic! I think you could get a lot more performance from your board by experimenting with larger ranges of motion.

In the video, your knees and ankles seem to always be bent the same amount, and your upper body is very stable, even stiff. Try flexing and extending your legs through different parts of your turn. Play around with the timing, intensity, and duration. Also, really exaggerate the movements when initially practicing at slower speeds. Then dial them back a little and find where they fit in your turning rhythm. 

You can incorporate other dynamic movements into your riding the same way. Experiment with shifting your weight forward and back along the board, or what you can do with some well timed rotational movements of the upper body. Then go hit some bump fields. Bumps are a great tool for developing dynamic movements. Actually, they absolutely force you to. Have fun, keep shredding!


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## Klang180 (Feb 8, 2012)

Firstly apologies for the video error and thanks for embedding it in the post, very helpful indeed.

Stillz and Wrath thanks a lot for your feedback which judging by the consistency in your points seems to be very accurate and definitely something i will try. As i said, this is me not at my most confident so maybe i am a little more dynamic when i am confident but of course this means i need to make sure i am always dynamic. I only wish there was some easy way to be more dynamic. I find it very difficult to remain dynamic without also either thinking or actually bending over at the waist, any tips or vids you know of that might aide this development?

Thanks so much for the feedback and keep it coming, it is really very helpful and you're basically saving my season with this advice  Oh and thanks for the kind words as well, was generous of you to keep my confidence up


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## ksup3erb (Jan 25, 2013)

Yeah, bumps do wonders.

It looks really good though.


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## ksup3erb (Jan 25, 2013)

Klang180 said:


> Firstly apologies for the video error and thanks for embedding it in the post, very helpful indeed.
> 
> Stillz and Wrath thanks a lot for your feedback which judging by the consistency in your points seems to be very accurate and definitely something i will try. As i said, this is me not at my most confident so maybe i am a little more dynamic when i am confident but of course this means i need to make sure i am always dynamic. I only wish there was some easy way to be more dynamic. I find it very difficult to remain dynamic without also either thinking or actually bending over at the waist, any tips or vids you know of that might aide this development?
> 
> Thanks so much for the feedback and keep it coming, it is really very helpful and you're basically saving my season with this advice  Oh and thanks for the kind words as well, was generous of you to keep my confidence up


Up-down and fore-aft movements will help you really pressure the board into the snow. Diving into turns, popping out of them. I think you're right at the cusp. 

You'd also probably do well starting to do some switch and freestyle elements. For me at least, it was the turning point of starting to ride the board, instead of going for a ride. While my switch and freestyle still suck, incorporating these elements made my regular riding much better just knowing how different movements control the board.


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## Klang180 (Feb 8, 2012)

Thanks a lot for the additional feedback Ksup and definetly duly noted.

One question for you and the others kind enough to give me feedback, when you say fore and aft movements i understand you mean forward and back along the length of the board but i am not sure i really understand how one achieves this?

Also, i actually have begun switch and freestyle elements but i suck at the former and am pretty bad at the latter. Still i guess it is only a matter of time for those elements.

Anyone think i could do with any setup adjustments or is that all a matter of preference? I always itch to go wider but am worried that, as in the past, i am blaming my setup/equipment for a lack of ability or commitment and i am not willing to go there again :laugh:


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## Noreaster (Oct 7, 2012)

I may or may not be right about this but I think I am. You're turning your knees out when you ride and you're pretty stiff and bent forward at the waist. I think the reason for this may be that you're riding a soft rocker in somewhat icy conditions. Normally I would be the first one to tell you that the board doesn't make the rider, but in your case it seems your board holds you back. It is pretty evident in the last 20 seconds of the video where you're trying to go deeper into your carves. You're still bent at the waist, especially when you go into a toeside turn, you're not bringing your hips over the board. I think it's because your board is not stable enough and you're not trusting it to hold the edge (also the reason for the arms flying up a bit at each turn). 

Try initiating each turn by leaning into it with your forward knee and when coming to the extreme point of your turn push your legs out. In effect, you're crouching lower when going into turn, then extending your legs coming out of it and crouching again going into the next turn. 

Try another board (CRC or camber), see if there's a difference. Also, the way you turn your knees out just looks strange to me. Are you sure you're comfortable with your stance and angles? You may want to try playing with them a bit. Just a suggestion.


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## Ndanielson (Jan 20, 2014)

The pain in your quad(rear quad i'll assume from your riding style) is due to you not evenly distributing your weight over the board. You may be "ruddering", by that I mean initiating your turns mostly with rear leg force. If you prefer this method, than the correction would be to straighten out that foot's stance (IE from 15-13), but if you want help correcting it, widen your stance an inch or two, this will make you naturally want to bend at the knee, as well as lower your center of gravity a bit. You do seem a bit stiff, you have the technique down, you just need to get loose... Have a few beers maybe :dunno: then hit it hard.


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## Klang180 (Feb 8, 2012)

Thanks for the further feedback guys, all helps the cause 

Firstly with respect to the quad pain, it is actually in my leading leg only and it can get severe. My back leg doesn't get painful at any point apart from powder.

I know that weight distribution over the board might be an issue and i do try to lean with the slope but i would reject the notion that i rudder. I really try not to and i see plenty of people doing it on the mountain and know exactly what you mean. I was never taught to do that and one of the reasons my riding is probably so stiff is because it is quite self conscious in my striving to not have bad habits like that. I obviously have developed some anyway, who doesn't, but i would be surprised if i did rudder, as you say.

Noreaster, you are spot on, i am turning my knees out and it is because otherwise i feel i don't have the right control over my edge. I saw a video by Snowprofessor.com that talks about experimenting with your knees by pushing them in and out to see where is the sweet spot with your board. Well i found that max pushed out with the knees was the best in my case but i was reluctant to put it down to the board.

You mentioning this does make me have second thoughts however. I actually have a Salomon Arnie 5000 159 rock board which is a bit stiffer and flat (Still not cambered) maybe i should take it out and see what that does?

Like you i don't like to blame my tools when in most cases it is the workman but in this case i wonder if you have a point. Does anyone else seem to think this might be a problem?

I got the Blacklist as it was so highly thought of online especially by Angrysnowboarder/BA but i wonder if it was a great board for him and not so suitable for my rather less advanced and less freestyle approach?


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## Noreaster (Oct 7, 2012)

Klang180 said:


> i am turning my knees out and it is because otherwise i feel i don't have the right control over my edge.


Well, that's my point. If you feel that this is the best way to achieve edge control then something is wrong with either your stance or your technique. And your technique seems ok, it just looks like you're compensating for the insufficient edge hold. That's why I thought it might have to do with your stance. I never demoed the Blacklist but I don't doubt that it is a fine board. Just not for riding icy groomers. 

By the way, you're not ruddering.


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## Klang180 (Feb 8, 2012)

Thanks Noreaster, for the advice and for putting my mind at ease about the ruddering.

Yes i suppose it must mean something that my knees need to be forced out to be comfortable. I will try a wider stance as well as the other board i have access to. It seems a little stiffer and has some camber so maybe it will be better suited.


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## Jed (May 11, 2011)

Your riding looks good. I'll have to mirror what some others are saying in that it's time to get more dynamic, especially with your upper body.

Right now your upper body is kind of just along for the ride, but what I'd suggest is start really concentrating on rotating and pushing your shoulder in the direction you want to turn.

So if you turn toeside, don't just let your upper body sit there, really rotate it and pretend you're trying to shove your leading shoulder where you want it to go as you engage your lower body. You can do the same with your lower body too by really pushing your knees and ankles into the direction of your turn to make your board respond quicker.

Once you start doing this you'll notice your board turns quicker and you have more control over when and how quickly you turn/pressure your edge.

Besides this, one small thing I'd correct is I noticed on your heelside turns your upper body gets left behind slightly more than on your toeside turns. You're not rotating your head and upper body to look in the heelside direction for whatever reason.

Try this: Take your leading hand and point in the direction you want to do when you turn heelside. It'll force you to make sure your upper body is rotating along with your lower body.

Overall riding looks good, just about getting more dynamic by really using your upper body + knees and ankles to power those turns faster.


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## ksup3erb (Jan 25, 2013)

Klang180 said:


> Thanks a lot for the additional feedback Ksup and definetly duly noted.
> 
> One question for you and the others kind enough to give me feedback, when you say fore and aft movements i understand you mean forward and back along the length of the board but i am not sure i really understand how one achieves this?
> 
> ...


So fore-aft is indeed along the length of the board. It's a weight transfer from your fore foot through center to your aft foot as you move through the turn. You're probably already doing the fore weighting when you get your weight to the fore foot and flatten the nose to initiate a turn. About halfway through the turn you'll shift to about equal weighting. And then to complete the turn you'll shift to weight on your rear foot, sort of like a mild Ollie/tail press move.

I can tell that you can benefit from this because in the video you're doing a lot of skidding through turns. As you complete your turns your tail is washing out and there's a lot of snow flying up. With fore-aft you keep better pressure on your edge where it's needed throughout the turn, and you tend to have cleaner turns and better control throughout. Aft weighting at the end of the turn gives you that pop off the tail and control to enter your next turn with a lot more power.

Fore-aft is key to actually finishing turns as well. Try practicing this by exaggerating your turns by finishing them going back uphill. You'll find you can't do this if you've already skidded out your tail.

Fore-aft is especially important on steeper runs where the skidding you're doing now will exaggerate and you lose your edge completely. 

Riding switch and starting to do some simple freestyle components (small kickers, spines, boxes, 180s, even bumps) once you've got the basics down helps because it forces you to slow down and think through the mechanics. You can ride better than most of people on the mountain already. But by now a lot of your turns are muscle memory and you're not really thinking about what you're doing or why. Starting now to do new things are going to be weird for your muscles but you KNOW how to do them. So if you're riding switch you'll focus on relearning things but not really. If you're doing simple freestyle you really need to be conscious of your weighting/body position and edging. This board awareness transfers to all aspects of your riding, including your regular stance stuff. I haven't articulated this that well but you get the point.

Finally, it's not your equipment. Maybe play around with width and angles, but if you're riding at this level getting to the next step is practice and more experience.


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## tanscrazydaisy (Mar 11, 2013)

To address some of the quad pain.... 

a soft board (which you have) will less demanding on the legs compared to a stiff flex board (probably, your old Camber board).

So, of course, you're legs aren't in endurance shape. This is where the off-season, you need to be doing activities that build up the endurance in your legs. 

Many people bike (with lots of hill climbing, whether on the road or on the trails)

others hit the gym.... but you have to also focus on building the endurance of the legs, which also includes doing some high reps/lower weight as well.

Like working out.... where you may drink a shake afterwards... treat riding the same way....the crappy deep fried lodge food doesn't really help you... but sometimes you gotta have that chicken fingers/fries basket and of course some good beer afterwards and during.

Get the proper nutrition and hydration during and afterwards also. Bring some good snacks that you can eat when you're riding the lifts (to keep you full & fueled).... then you won't be hungry and you can keep riding while everyone else is in the lodge eating lunch....

Right now during the season, you can hit the gym to focus on leg endurance also.


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## speedjason (May 2, 2013)

time to train these legs.:laugh:


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## Klang180 (Feb 8, 2012)

Jed said:


> Your riding looks good. I'll have to mirror what some others are saying in that it's time to get more dynamic, especially with your upper body.
> 
> Right now your upper body is kind of just along for the ride, but what I'd suggest is start really concentrating on rotating and pushing your shoulder in the direction you want to turn.
> 
> ...


Thanks Jed really appreciate your input and your observation, i think i will try your suggestions today and take a few more vids once i have had time to put it into affect properly.


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## Klang180 (Feb 8, 2012)

ksup3erb said:


> So fore-aft is indeed along the length of the board. It's a weight transfer from your fore foot through center to your aft foot as you move through the turn. You're probably already doing the fore weighting when you get your weight to the fore foot and flatten the nose to initiate a turn. About halfway through the turn you'll shift to about equal weighting. And then to complete the turn you'll shift to weight on your rear foot, sort of like a mild Ollie/tail press move.
> 
> I can tell that you can benefit from this because in the video you're doing a lot of skidding through turns. As you complete your turns your tail is washing out and there's a lot of snow flying up. With fore-aft you keep better pressure on your edge where it's needed throughout the turn, and you tend to have cleaner turns and better control throughout. Aft weighting at the end of the turn gives you that pop off the tail and control to enter your next turn with a lot more power.
> 
> ...


Ah ha working this forum out a little more so can include your quote in my reply. Once again thanks for putting the time in to responding. I have actually been out this morning and already been trying your fore/aft suggestions. I realised i was already doing some of this when i go for a proper carve when the snow is not as icy but hadn't really transfered it into my skidded turns. I can already feel how it makes it much more powerful and more on the rail and actually makes it into a mini carve, well sometimes anyway 

I've actually been doing some freestyle for a little while but i am not brilliant. However after watching some instructional vids i realised i never really popped off the lip. Now that i am starting to do that and my timing is improving i find myself doing better. It also helps on the piste when popping off rollers etc.

It is a matter of putting the time in and getting more out of my riding so i will respond with a few videos in a few days 

Thanks to everyone!


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## ksup3erb (Jan 25, 2013)

Klang180 said:


> Ah ha working this forum out a little more so can include your quote in my reply. Once again thanks for putting the time in to responding. I have actually been out this morning and already been trying your fore/aft suggestions. I realised i was already doing some of this when i go for a proper carve when the snow is not as icy but hadn't really transfered it into my skidded turns. I can already feel how it makes it much more powerful and more on the rail and actually makes it into a mini carve, well sometimes anyway
> 
> I've actually been doing some freestyle for a little while but i am not brilliant. However after watching some instructional vids i realised i never really popped off the lip. Now that i am starting to do that and my timing is improving i find myself doing better. It also helps on the piste when popping off rollers etc.
> 
> ...


Right -- the goal isn't just to do more carves, as much fun as they are. It's also to get you to realize that turn initiation actually starts from the end of the previous physical turn (the aft weighting), and not the new physical turn (the fore weighting). Combine this aft move with unweighting the nose (cross-under move) and you'll feel a pop (really not the best word) that allows you to quickly determine the path of your next turn. Combine this with upper body movements -- I like to drive my front shoulder in the direction I want the board to follow -- and you're going to already be a lot more powerful in and out of turns.

It's easier if someone showed you. Unfortunately I have no videos.


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## Mel M (Feb 2, 2012)

ksup3erb said:


> Right -- the goal isn't just to do more carves, as much fun as they are. It's also to get you to realize that turn initiation actually starts from the end of the previous physical turn (the aft weighting), and not the new physical turn (the fore weighting).


That's a REALLY good point. Once I started to hone in on the AFT weighting, my oversteering problems got much, much better. The unweighting into my next turn became fluid and snappier. Like I was doing a mini ollie between turns.

Everyone's given some excellent advice so I won't be redundant, but a tip I want to share as far dipping the shoulders that's helped me be more dynamic with my upper body is to extend the leading hand out and pretend you're holding a steering wheel. I'm regular footed, so when I initiate a toeside, I would turn the imaginary steering wheel with my left hand clockwise from 12 to 3 o'clock. When I'm going heelside, I turn it counterclockwise from 12 to 9 o'clock.

I don't actually do this anymore, but when I was practicing to get more dynamic on the really steep slopes, this helped me out tremendously.


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## jml22 (Apr 10, 2012)

high1 - YouTube
Watch and learn lol


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