# Heat Moldable Liner



## JohnnyO83 (Nov 7, 2014)

Hi Guys,

I just bought a pair of Salomon Dialogue boots. The boots were kind of cramped in the toe, so the guy at the local shop suggested that I have them heat molded. He took the insoles out of the boots and put them over some stacks that emitted heat. He had me put toe caps on under my socks and then once the boots were ready, I put them on, tightened them up and walked around the store for 15 minutes. 

This was my first time having boots heat molded. I think it worked well, but having looked up the process of how it should have been done, I understand that walking around the store and flexing the boots may have been a bad idea. They seem to fit well. When I'm in riding stance my toes now barely graze the end of the liner. However, do you think that me having walked around and flexed the boots while there were molding, would have damaged the fit?


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## Argo (Feb 25, 2010)

They fit well but you think you damaged the fit? Wth....put the boots on and ride.


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## Altephor (Feb 4, 2010)

No, they are fine. Heat-molding is not a one shot deal either, it just speeds up the normal process created from the warmth of your feet. Your liner will continue to mold around your feet as you ride.


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## MeanJoe (Jul 20, 2011)

Anytime I've had my boots heat molded I had to stand in them for about 10-15 minutes and then they had me walk around a bit. It sounds like you got the outcome you wanted though, they're comfortable out of the box and the fit is good.

I cannot think of any reason what you did do would have caused any damage. As Altephor mentioned, one of the benefits (but not the only thing) of heat molding is that it instantly break in your boot without have to put 30+ days of overall wear & tear on the boot.


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

Hi Bro,

For what its worth that was not done correctly. No damage is done, but you can get a much better fit.

By walking during the heat fit process you essentially "crush down" the heated foam everywhere. This eliminates the _selective_ benefit of heat fitting.

You want to flex your knees forward so they align over your mid-foot and stand still until the liner is entirely cool. 

Toe caps or not during heat fitting? Age old question. For a performance fit, no. Spoiler opinion. This is often suggested by manufacturers and shops because it helps the easy sell even though long term it produces a boot that is effectively lower performance than its potential. If you need to "blow out" a hot spot area that should be done selectively. The only time a full toe cap should be used is if the whole toe is overly pressured. 

You wrote, "When I'm in riding stance my toes now barely graze the end of the liner". That indicates that your fit has made too much room. I would highly suggest that you go back and ask to be fit without caps and while standing still.


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## JohnnyO83 (Nov 7, 2014)

Once the heat moldable liner is packed out around the toes, as it is now, how will re-heat molding help? The room has already been created. Will heat molding again make the foam re-inflate back to its initial form? If so, Why wouldn't I just let this happen naturally at this point while I wear the boots while snowboarding?


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

JohnnyO83 said:


> Once the heat moldable liner is packed out around the toes, as it is now, how will re-heat molding help? The room has already been created. Will heat molding again make the foam re-inflate back to its initial form? If so, Why wouldn't I just let this happen naturally at this point while I wear the boots while snowboarding?


Yes, once reheated the liner will go back to its "molten"  form where the material can then be redistributed. This will only happen with heat.


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## theprocess (Sep 9, 2013)

Altephor said:


> No, they are fine. Heat-molding is not a one shot deal either, it just speeds up the normal process created from the warmth of your feet. Your liner will continue to mold around your feet as you ride.


If youre looking for the "perfect" fit is heat-molding necessary? Or will the same results be acheived by just wearing and riding over (longer) time?


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## Altephor (Feb 4, 2010)

theprocess said:


> If youre looking for the "perfect" fit is heat-molding necessary? Or will the same results be acheived by just wearing and riding over (longer) time?


Heat-molding just speeds up the process. Your boots will pack around your feet as you ride a lot as well. But I believe most shops heat-mold for free or a very low fee so if you have fitment issues out of the box that can be fixed with heat molding, why not?


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## theprocess (Sep 9, 2013)

So do not heat mold if not necessary out of the box unless you have fitment issues and need to redistribute some materials and eliminate pressure points. The liner will mold around your foot over time with normal use. Otherwise heat molding will unecessarily speed up the breakdown of the foam and shorten the lifespan. Experts did I get that right?


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## JohnnyO83 (Nov 7, 2014)

I don't think so... Why would heat molding liners that are meant to be heat molded, reduce the lifespan of the boot??? All you're doing is causing the liners to pack out to the shape of your foot as they would through the break in period anyway. Once the liners pack out to the shape of your foot, they stay that way for the life of the boot, unless you wear holes in them or damage them. So instead of riding in relatively uncomfortable boots for the first 10 or 15 times out, you have something comfortable right away. So if anything you get to ride your new boots at near 100% comfort from day 1 and you don't have to put 10 to 15 days of wear on your shell to get them that way. Its the shell of boots that loses its support and breaks down over time, causing you to eventually have to replace your boots.


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## CassMT (Mar 14, 2013)

Wiredsport said:


> You want to flex your knees forward so they align over your mid-foot and stand still until the liner is entirely cool.
> 
> Toe caps or not during heat fitting? Age old question. For a performance fit, no. Spoiler opinion. .


glad i saw that, i was going to follow the 32 directions (toe caps, walkin around, etc), this seems like logic/experience talkin',thanks WS


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

theprocess said:


> So do not heat mold if not necessary out of the box unless you have fitment issues and need to redistribute some materials and eliminate pressure points. The liner will mold around your foot over time with normal use. Otherwise heat molding will unecessarily speed up the breakdown of the foam and shorten the lifespan. Experts did I get that right?


Hi,

No, that is not correct. Heat moldable liners are designed to be heat molded. Simply wearing the boot will not offer the same result at all. Normal break in compresses but does not redistribute material to the negative spaces. That will only occur with a heat fit. Use will eventually "compress out" your heat fit as well.

Heat molding is not just for problem feet. It simply creates an exact mold of your foot's form. Many riders choose to heat fit again after the initial break in period to get back to that first fit feel. You will find shop guys doing their own boots pretty often . It used to be advised that a boot can only be heat fit 8-12 times but that is not really the case. 

Of course, you don't want to use a boot drier/warmer or dry your boots by the fire or heater. All heat at thigh enough temps will undo your fit. To hot will damage the foam and it will both harden and will no longer be moldable.

STOKED!


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## theprocess (Sep 9, 2013)

Wiredsport said:


> Hi,
> 
> No, that is not correct. Heat moldable liners are designed to be heat molded. Simply wearing the boot will not offer the same result at all. Normal break in compresses but does not redistribute material to the negative spaces. That will only occur with a heat fit. Use will eventually "compress out" your heat fit as well.
> 
> ...


Thanks for setting the record straight. Exactly what I needed to know.


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

CassMT said:


> glad i saw that, i was going to follow the 32 directions (toe caps, walkin around, etc), this seems like logic/experience talkin',thanks WS


.

We proved this to ourselves a long time ago. We used to use warranty boots as test dummies and man did we abuse those things. We tested how many times we could get them to mold, what happened if we underheated / overheated. How much we could push a liner, etc.

One test was we cut up a liner into small squares, we heated a square to temp and put 200 lbs of flat weight on it. It squished down to very thin and once cool held that thickness. Upon reheat it bounced back fully. 

Walking in a warm liner essentially does the same thing to a lesser degree. It over compresses the liner and thins it far beyond the shape of the foot. We hear the advice you quoted above often but it results in a loose boot and we do't dig that fit.


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

Wiredsport for president!


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## Alpine Duke (Jun 21, 2015)

A bit of a bump of an old thread. 

I have a hot spot on my Salomon Malamutes and have been wanting to do some heat molding. have been wanting to for some time but wasn't sure about the toe-box thing and just plain old could not find a good source that was more than just "i tried this once and it worked".

Finally found this and Wiredsport's info is very informative!!! I've looked all over the net and it is great to see some info that is much more than anecdotal and also covers experience from many "experiments"  

i think I am going to go with the hotwater in a turkey bag heating method. I like that one because it wont require me to slide jelly hot liners into the boots. I also think i am going to just put a couple of pieces of foam between some toes to expand out the toe area a bit (hotspot is portside of my little toe on one boot). I'm not that worried about a tight fit around the toes. I'll let you know how it works.

BTW, I saw the turkeybag/boiling water idea from someone else in a post here on SBF. A look around he web seems to show that several others have done that successfully and i would rather do that than the rice.


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

Hi Duke,

FWIW, these are our best tips for heat fit:

http://www.snowboardingforum.com/boots/225057-heat-fit-faq-love-your-feet.html


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## Alpine Duke (Jun 21, 2015)

Wiredsport said:


> Hi Duke,
> 
> FWIW, these are our best tips for heat fit:
> 
> http://www.snowboardingforum.com/boots/225057-heat-fit-faq-love-your-feet.html


thanks brother  however, this one has the all important part about your early experiments


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