# [Off season review and comments] 2020 Burton Ion VS 2020 Ride Trident VS 2020 K2 Thraxis - Mondopoint is a lie !



## drblast (Feb 28, 2017)

27.2 is Mondo 275 or US 9.5. I'm not sure but it looks like you might have wide feet.

And to be honest, no boots in my Mondo size have ever fit comfortably right away. Heat molding makes them bearable, riding makes them comfy. My favorite boots were painful when I tried them on.

It's a lot to go through to get the right fit and most people won't care to do that but Mondo isn't wrong or a lie.


----------



## Yeahti87 (Jan 17, 2019)

I’d try again with a custom insole that is heat-molded to your feet. If your arch is not fully supported by the stock ones, your foot flattens and it might be these extra 1-2 mm between some serious pain and some discomfort that is a good starting point before breaking them in.


----------



## YouGoNCY (Aug 6, 2021)

drblast said:


> 27.2 is Mondo 275 or US 9.5. I'm not sure but it looks like you might have wide feet.
> 
> And to be honest, no boots in my Mondo size have ever fit comfortably right away. Heat molding makes them bearable, riding makes them comfy. My favorite boots were painful when I tried them on.
> 
> It's a lot to go through to get the right fit and most people won't care to do that but Mondo isn't wrong or a lie.


Yeah that's what I was thinking too. The Trident are really right up my alley, I just need to make the left foot bearable. 

And the title was a bit ironic. Obviously Mondo is not a lie, I was just a bit disappointed it was not an instant fit


----------



## YouGoNCY (Aug 6, 2021)

Yeahti87 said:


> I’d try again with a custom insole that is heat-molded to your feet. If your arch is not fully supported by the stock ones, your foot flattens and it might be these extra 1-2 mm between some serious pain and some discomfort that is a good starting point before breaking them in.


yeah I'll go that route I think. I will keep the Trident and hopefully the molding will make the problem go away. 
They really are what I am looking for in terms of Flex. I'm sad seeing how noodly the Burtons are out of the box. Without being ultra stiff, I feel they could have been a bit more "dynamic" for one of their all mountain flagship.


----------



## Phedder (Sep 13, 2014)

If I'm reading your measurements right, your width is around 11.8cm which is wide as fuck. I think you'd have much better luck with the Burton Photon Wide 9.5 or 10 than any of these regular width options. I find K2 and Ride boots tend to fit on the wider side so they work for me, but I'm 10.7cm so you've got a whole extra cm to deal with. The Lasso Pro Wide or Maysis Wide could work but they're a single boa for tightening and the side boa does the heel hold. 

You might come out okay with the tridents after some heat molding and a good supportive foot bed, but be prepared to have to shave off a little liner material if any hot spots persist. Amazing the relief that 1-3mm off the outside of the liner can give.


----------



## YouGoNCY (Aug 6, 2021)

Heh, never really realised I had somewhat wide feet. I guess it doesn't help. But finding wide boots isn't not that easy here so guess I'll make do with what I have. 
I'm not going for single BOAs, I'm really set on getting a high end model.

The Trident will work with some molding + a better sole I think. I'm really close to be fine for the left foot and they're the best package for me in terms of flex and overall quality of the product.
I went to a shop today and they were confident they can make this kind of pain go away thanks to the toecap during molding.


----------



## mounteddy (May 8, 2021)

That measuring device's scale seems wonky to me? My real foot is 273 mm and that should convert to a US size 9.5 by most all accounts that I have read. I have Tridents size US 9.5 and the tongue tag says mondo 275. Mine fit my foot pretty well even with FP insoles. They aren't fully broken in and if anything I am worried they may pack out too big. My big toe is smashed a wee bit but it's bearable. Have you measured your feet with a ruler to make sure the measurements jive w/that device? My width is 105 and that is borderline wide I think, but I may be mistaken. So 117 would seem crazy wide to me... 
Anyway good luck. As long as ya have a good fit I guess that's most important. I do personally like the Tridents a lot. I also tried the Thraxis and although they were a solid boot the Tridents fit me better and seemed simpler, I like not needing to mess with extra laces and the velcro cup deal caused me some instep pressure. These are also lighter which I like, but I have one prosthetic lower leg so I think that makes me notice weight more than "normal folk". I am also worried the tridents may soften up too much tho, I do like a stiff boot.


----------



## YouGoNCY (Aug 6, 2021)

mounteddy said:


> That measuring device's scale seems wonky to me? My real foot is 273 mm and that should convert to a US size 9.5 by most all accounts that I have read. I have Tridents size US 9.5 and the tongue tag says mondo 275. Mine fit my foot pretty well even with FP insoles. They aren't fully broken in and if anything I am worried they may pack out too big. My big toe is smashed a wee bit but it's bearable. Have you measured your feet with a ruler to make sure the measurements jive w/that device? My width is 105 and that is borderline wide I think, but I may be mistaken. So 117 would seem crazy wide to me...
> Anyway good luck. As long as ya have a good fit I guess that's most important. I do personally like the Tridents a lot. I also tried the Thraxis and although they were a solid boot the Tridents fit me better and seemed simpler, I like not needing to mess with extra laces and the velcro cup deal caused me some instep pressure. These are also lighter which I like, but I have one prosthetic lower leg so I think that makes me notice weight more than "normal folk". I am also worried the tridents may soften up too much tho, I do like a stiff boot.


I'm gonna check with a ruler, that's not a bad idea. But from my kinda foggy memory these results looked like others I had on other scales. 

I'm with you about the Thraxis. The fit is a bit wonky with that velcro strap. Like, even when cleaning and storing them back in their box I was like "damn this thing is annoying". 
Not like we fiddle with our shoes 20 times a day but still, annoying, and was not that comfy. 

Guess we'll see about the Trident flex after a season. But I want to believe the system with the whole plastic tongue will help keep some stiffness long term.


----------



## YouGoNCY (Aug 6, 2021)

OK so weird stuff, while quickly checking by drawing my foot on a paper, I get more around 10.7 / 10.9 cm of width for my left foot. The length checks out around 27.4 though so at least not everything on the scale is effed up lol. 
I found another shop today, that gave me much more confidence and seemed way more knowledgeable than the first bigger one I visited yesterday. They told me the same thing, they are confident they can make the Triden fit and I should keep them. 

So yeah, now we wait for the season to start.  .. Or we buy new bindings... hmmmm


----------



## mounteddy (May 8, 2021)

That seems more like it. 11.8 cm would be an extreme width. I've never seen a measuring device like the one in your photo, couldn't really visualise where your foot even goes in that thing. Definitely not like the ones in the shops that I've used. Anyway glad ya got it sorted. If anything those boots should be a 1/2 size too big.


----------



## mounteddy (May 8, 2021)

Oh and yes hopefully they will have good longevity with the slime tongue. I guess the tongue used to be a lot thicker? I do find them to be very comfortable and love that I can adjust them on the fly and leave them loose for walking, breaks, and climbing on my split board. Don't think I'll ever go back to laces. I did read some folks have problems with them leaking. I haven't had that happen but I only had a few days on them. Hopefully that's been fixed...


----------



## jstar (Sep 21, 2016)

I could never get the conda to work well with the thraxis (and other K2) boots. They always ended up hurting my feet.

The ions weren’t a perfect fit, always left my feet numb. My Burton boots always softened up too fast for my liking as well.

Tridents have been a great fit, and flex and quality have held up pretty good too. Only boots I’ve ridden past the 100 day mark. Only significant damage is the old slime tongue cracked, new tongues I would imagine will hold up better.

Ride boots in general I tend to downsize by 1/2 size and heat mould to get the perfect fit.

I’ll be picking up another pair of 2022 tridents this fall.


----------



## jstar (Sep 21, 2016)

mounteddy said:


> Oh and yes hopefully they will have good longevity with the slime tongue. I guess the tongue used to be a lot thicker? I do find them to be very comfortable and love that I can adjust them on the fly and leave them loose for walking, breaks, and climbing on my split board. Don't think I'll ever go back to laces. I did read some folks have problems with them leaking. I haven't had that happen but I only had a few days on them. Hopefully that's been fixed...


Yup, it’d be hard to stray from the triple boa, I’ve used them splitting as well without issue. 

Regarding the leaking, I’ve seen comments, however I’ve never experienced it. Hopefully they have that figured out. 

In fact, the only thing I’d change/add to the tridents would be the lower laces zip cover found on the ‘92 boot. But I’ll gladly live without it.


----------



## Craig64 (Jul 16, 2015)

The Burton Ion is a stiff boot and sits underneath the Driver X (Burtons Stiffest boot). The Ion has the Life Liner which is pretty high quality.


----------



## YouGoNCY (Aug 6, 2021)

Craig64 said:


> The Burton Ion is a stiff boot and sits underneath the Driver X (Burtons Stiffest boot). The Ion has the Life Liner which is pretty high quality.


I mean, yeah that's how it is advertised, but I assure you they were really soft for my liking.
I do not pretend to have tried dozens of boots, but so far to compare I have tried the following recent boots (2019 or more recent):

Nidecker Aero (with like 30 days on them, so admittedly they lost some stiffness but they were never very rigid so..) 
Burton Photon
Burton Ion
K2 Maysis
K2 Thraxis
Ride Trident 

And I swear to you the Ions were barely, if any, stiffer than the Photon. 
What they had going for them was the best liner from all of them. And by a wide margin. The system is incredible, the velcros are practical and super comfy. But the vertical (front to back) flex of the boot was very noodly. 
The unit they sent me did not look refurbished or used in any way, and I doubt a manufacturing defect could explain the flex. It felt like a feature by design. It felt super good on the feet and if you want some "low to mid" flex boots they are perfect. 

But if the Thraxis is a 9/10 stiffness overall (lateraly and front to back) (with the Insano apparently being even stiffer ?), the Trident a 8/10, my effed up Nidecker a 3/10, the Photons is a 4.5/10 and the Ion is no more than a 6.5/10. 
At least this is how I felt it. Maybe it is because I'm currently 235 lbs (on my down for winter, still 20 pounds to go ) that I apply more pressure on the materials ?


----------



## Craig64 (Jul 16, 2015)

YouGoNCY said:


> I mean, yeah that's how it is advertised, but I assure you they were really soft for my liking.
> I do not pretend to have tried dozens of boots, but so far to compare I have tried the following recent boots (2019 or more recent):
> 
> Nidecker Aero (with like 30 days on them, so admittedly they lost some stiffness but they were never very rigid so..)
> ...


You're a big unit at 235lbs so will have the weight and strength to push most boots to the flexible edge.


----------



## YouGoNCY (Aug 6, 2021)

Craig64 said:


> You're a big unit at 235lbs so will have the weight and strength to push most boots to the flexible edge.



No doubt I'm harder on the materials. But still, since I compared all of them at the same weight, the comparison stands for my own use case. 

The Ions felt so good I was this close to overlook the flex. But I would rate them as "mid flex" rather than "stiff". 
But yeah, if you're a good bit lighter, maybe they move up the scale a bit. 

Well, if any big boi sees this: Ions are not stiff at your weight, lol.


----------



## mounteddy (May 8, 2021)

jstar said:


> Yup, it’d be hard to stray from the triple boa, I’ve used them splitting as well without issue.
> 
> Regarding the leaking, I’ve seen comments, however I’ve never experienced it. Hopefully they have that figured out.
> 
> In fact, the only thing I’d change/add to the tridents would be the lower laces zip cover found on the ‘92 boot. But I’ll gladly live without it.


Yeah a cover over the cables seems like a good idea, I've been afrain I'm going to slice the lower one with an edge. I try to use the heelcup on the free boot on the couch but it seems like I always forget at some point. Glad to hear no leaks after 100 days. I think I would like a bit more padding in the tongue and I think I'll add some. But that's pretty minor. I'm happy with em.


----------



## drblast (Feb 28, 2017)

Boots that are a size too large won't feel stiff. I used to think 32 TM-2 XLT's weren't stiff, until I finally tried them on in my Mondo size and found that were like cement boots when they fit properly. I can barely get those things on when they're new, but trying them out in a shop where they had me in a full size too large they felt like old slippers.


----------



## WigMar (Mar 17, 2019)

drblast said:


> Boots that are a size too large won't feel stiff. I used to think 32 TM-2 XLT's weren't stiff, until I finally tried them on in my Mondo size and found that were like cement boots when they fit properly. I can barely get those things on when they're new, but trying them out in a shop where they had me in a full size too large they felt like old slippers.


Yeah, before I knew about mondopoint sizing I rode uber-stiff Ride Insanos. Now that I'm in my correct size, I ride much softer Ride Fuse boots. I guess I've lost a little weight since the Insano days as well.


----------



## YouGoNCY (Aug 6, 2021)

I mean, sure the Ions are technically .5 size "bigger" than the true 10. But I still graze the end of the liner with my toes. But yeah I guess I can fit in a Burton 10. I was kinda fine in the Photons in 10. 

Don't know if .5 size too big really throw the flex off like that but it can also be an explanation.


----------



## WigMar (Mar 17, 2019)

Grazing the end of the liner with your toes is too big in my opinion. Those are going to pack out and get sloppy real fast. With new boots, I'm looking for firm pressure into the liners without pain or hotspots. I've never found a boot that fit perfectly out of the box. Boot fitting is a big deal. AngrySnowboarder has a good series called bootfitting 101 on YouTube. It changed my life. No joke. 

I do think .5 is enough to throw off the flex and intended response of a boot.


----------



## YouGoNCY (Aug 6, 2021)

Well, dunno. I could flex them real easy with my hand too. Maybe they changed the "recipe" of the ions at some point and you're referencing older models. Because even by hands the flex was pretty soft. 
But maybe it's just that all I had to compare was a Thraxis that is really stiff and a Trident that, albeit less than the K2, kinda stiff too. 

I'll try to keep an eye out for Ions in shop, I'll try to tryout a 10 somewhere. Also would like to see if their speed lacing version is as good as people say.


----------



## Ducky (Aug 7, 2021)

drblast said:


> 27.2 is Mondo 275 or US 9.5. I'm not sure but it looks like you might have wide feet.
> 
> And to be honest, no boots in my Mondo size have ever fit comfortably right away. Heat molding makes them bearable, riding makes them comfy. My favorite boots were painful when I tried them on.
> 
> It's a lot to go through to get the right fit and most people won't care to do that but Mondo isn't wrong or a lie.


Nice write up. I just bought ions last year, they are awesome!


----------



## drblast (Feb 28, 2017)

Your actual size is a US 9.5 wide though. Trust me on this. Even 10 is a half size too large. I wear 10 and my foot is 28.1cm. When those boots pack out after 50 days, they're too large and this happens:










People think that's from boots being too small, but it's actually from your toes not being super tight right up against the liner. That feels ridiculously uncomfortable at first but once the boots break in (5-10 days) they're the right size.


----------



## iamok (Jan 25, 2020)

I wear US 9.5 everything - skate, running or dress shoes, but i prefer US10 for snowboard boots. I usually try more than two different pairs of boots every season, and ive been riding for 11 years. Every pair of boots ive tried in 9.5 was hurting my big toe. And most of size 10 boot were fine. My feet are around 27.5cm long, but then im truing to flat my arches (like during some toe side landings) - my feet extend for a few mm.

In terms of comfort for mid-stiff boots ive found Nitro Team TLS boots being very comfortable. Thats my favorite boot now for all-mountain. Im only looking to find my stiffer dream boot for more gnarly lines )


----------



## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

A bit late to this but it still remains imperative that you get an accurate barefoot width measurement for each foot. Without a width measurement the correct size can't be established.

Please post up images of your 4 barefoot measurements showing your full foot, the wall, and the measuring tape in all images) so we can get this right for you.

Please measure your feet using this method:

Kick your heel (barefoot please, no socks) back against a wall. Mark the floor exactly at the tip of your toe (the one that sticks out furthest - which toe this is will vary by rider). Measure from the mark on the floor to the wall. That is your foot length and is the only measurement that you will want to use. Measure in centimeters if possible, but if not, take inches and multiply by 2.54 (example: an 11.25 inch foot x 2.54 = 28.57 centimeters). For width please place the inside (medial side) of your foot against a wall. Please then measure from the wall out to the widest point on the lateral (outside) of your foot.

STOKED!


----------



## YouGoNCY (Aug 6, 2021)

Wiredsport said:


> A bit late to this but it still remains imperative that you get an accurate barefoot width measurement for each foot. Without a width measurement the correct size can't be established.
> 
> Please post up images of your 4 barefoot measurements showing your full foot, the wall, and the measuring tape in all images) so we can get this right for you.
> 
> ...


Yeah I was wondering if I shouldn't try your method. I saw it in the sticky thread. 

So, I did it a few times until I was sure the results were accurate to the best of my abilities. I tapes a piece of paper perpendicular to a wall so it wouldn't move, placed my bare feet and put some marks on it. Did it around a corner for the side so I wasn't bend all wrong. 

Long story short, here are the measures: 

Left foot = 10,5 cm wide - 27,4 cm long
Right foot = 10,4 cm wide - 27,3 cm long 

So if I'm not mistaken I'm a true 10. Which seems to correlate with the feel I got from the boots I tried on. The 10s are snug, the 10.5 is a tad bit more roomy. 
No idea how "wide" my feet are compared to a random man.


----------



## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

Hi YouGoNCY,

You are in the middle of the (.5 cm) range for mondopoint 275. This is size 9.5 US in snowboard boots. You are an EE width which requires a very specific Wide boot. Width is every bit as important as length. You will not fit a size 9.5 boot that does not also match your width. The correct fit for your foot will be the Burton Photon Wide or Ion Wide in size 9.5. STOKED!


----------



## JBM (Jul 1, 2017)

Had many issues over the years with getting a good fitting high-end stiff boot .... last 4 season been putting up with RIDE lasso Boa ... good boot but constant issues around foot crushing Vs heel lift ..BOA's breaking ...so after trying every high end boot ...I picked the Burton ION fast lace ... and 5 days in I'm loving them esp now as I've fitted one of the J-bar inserts as I have normal size front foot but narrow heels + skinny ankles (My Golf shoes are the largest size 11 females)...

I also go down half a size to 9 rather than 9.5 I use to ride but found really bad heel lift >>>>

I can see these ION's only getting better from here and think as I run Burton EST bindings they fit really well unlike some boots I've had and tried >>>


----------



## Salt Shaker (Sep 13, 2017)

My feet are close to yours in length. They average 27.0L and 27.5R (I've measured in the morning and after long runs with the variance being +/- 00.2). My width is around 10.2 for left and right. Based on the info I have found, I am an E width in 9.5US footwear (which makes sense since I size up to 10 or 10.5 in casual shoes). 

I currently have Ride Fuses in 9.5US. They are just barely wide enough, and arguably too long after breaking in. My right foot is snug, but my left foot (27.0) is a little sloppy. I would say they are a good "comfort fit". 

I also tried K2 Darkos in 9.0US. My toes were curled in the beginning. I spent a lot of time messing with the liner, heat molding, and spent about 20 days in them. Ultimately they were just a tad too short for my right foot (27.5). 

I just wanted to give this feedback as reference, and I know every foot is different. Boots can be a battle, I've been through 6 pairs in 5 seasons trying to find the right fit. Like others have said, you may want to look at a wide option in 9.5US. The new Lasso Pro Wide seems like a solid boot if you can deal with the single zone boa. For me personally, I hope to try on the Burton Photon Wide in a 9.5. I know its for EEE, but I like a lot of side-to-side room in the toe box.


----------



## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

Salt Shaker said:


> My feet are close to yours in length. They average 27.0L and 27.5R (I've measured in the morning and after long runs with the variance being +/- 00.2). My width is around 10.2 for left and right. Based on the info I have found, I am an E width in 9.5US footwear (which makes sense since I size up to 10 or 10.5 in casual shoes).
> 
> I currently have Ride Fuses in 9.5US. They are just barely wide enough, and arguably too long after breaking in. My right foot is snug, but my left foot (27.0) is a little sloppy. I would say they are a good "comfort fit".
> 
> ...


Hi Shaker,
I would strongly suggest the Salomon Dialogue Wide or Synapse Wide boots. You are E width (in both sizes 9 and 9.5 US). Only Salomon produces Wide models for E width. It is equally important to size for the correct width and length. 

STOKED!


----------



## E.Schnee (Jan 30, 2021)

Salt Shaker said:


> I just wanted to give this feedback as reference, and I know every foot is different. Boots can be a battle, I've been through 6 pairs in 5 seasons trying to find the right fit. Like others have said, you may want to look at a wide option in 9.5US. The new Lasso Pro Wide seems like a solid boot if you can deal with the single zone boa. For me personally, I hope to try on the Burton Photon Wide in a 9.5. I know its for EEE, but I like a lot of side-to-side room in the toe box.


The Ride Lasso Pro wide does look like a great wide option! Even thou the Ride Trident and the Fuse seem to be higher quality and the Trident as a wide option would be the perfect boot for me. Does anyone know If it would be possible to put the Lasso pro wide liner into the Trident to get a Wide fit? Also thoughts on the stiffness of the Lasso Pro vs. the Trident?


----------



## YouGoNCY (Aug 6, 2021)

E.Schnee said:


> The Ride Lasso Pro wide does look like a great wide option! Even thou the Ride Trident and the Fuse seem to be higher quality and the Trident as a wide option would be the perfect boot for me. Does anyone know If it would be possible to put the Lasso pro wide liner into the Trident to get a Wide fit? Also thoughts on the stiffness of the Lasso Pro vs. the Trident?


Yes, I get that now. However, the flex difference is still massive between a Ion and a Trident when you flex them by hand. I could flex the Burton so much compared to the K2, and the Ride to a lesser extent, with just my hands. It was consistent with the feeling when I put them on.


----------



## Salt Shaker (Sep 13, 2017)

E.Schnee said:


> The Ride Lasso Pro wide does look like a great wide option! Even thou the Ride Trident and the Fuse seem to be higher quality and the Trident as a wide option would be the perfect boot for me. Does anyone know If it would be possible to put the Lasso pro wide liner into the Trident to get a Wide fit? Also thoughts on the stiffness of the Lasso Pro vs. the Trident?


I could be wrong on this, but: I believe the Ride Lasso Pro Wide achieves extra width through a wider shell, and the liner is standard thickness at the sides of the forefoot. Where as Burton uses the standard width shell, and gets the extra width from using thin neoprene on the lateral and medial sides of the liner. 

So using a liner from a wide Ride boot may not gain extra width when put in a standard width boot. From a quality stand point Ride boots all seem solid in the $300+ price range. I think it would have made more sense for them to do a Fuse wide, since most people with wide feet want full adjustability of upper and lower zones.


----------



## E.Schnee (Jan 30, 2021)

Salt Shaker said:


> I could be wrong on this, but: I believe the Ride Lasso Pro Wide achieves extra width through a wider shell, and the liner is standard thickness at the sides of the forefoot. Where as Burton uses the standard width shell, and gets the extra width from using thin neoprene on the lateral and medial sides of the liner.


That's good to know! That means it would still be possible to make a neoprene mod on the standard Trident even thou I think a wider shell is hands down the better option.



Salt Shaker said:


> So using a liner from a wide Ride boot may not gain extra width when put in a standard width boot. From a quality stand point Ride boots all seem solid in the $300+ price range. I think it would have made more sense for them to do a Fuse wide, since most people with wide feet want full adjustability of upper and lower zones.


So true! And all in all with the rubber toe cap and the urethane tongue the Fuse seem to be a step above the Lasso pro quality wise! Would take a Fuse wide any day over a Lasso pro wide.


----------



## NT.Thunder (Jan 4, 2020)

I wear Ride Lasso, pretty comfy, I do notice pressure points around my ankles from the Boa cable but it’s fine. What I don’t like is the wear around the toe cap, they seem to deteriorate pretty quick.


----------

