# Bindings for stiffer boards - expert advice appreciated



## EdgeFund (Dec 13, 2011)

Hi everyone,

A bit of background before the actual question just to put it in perspective:

I ride a 2007 Ride Timeless 161 (I'm 5 ft 10, 75 kg). I got that because although not an expert, I was reaching speeds where board flutter was threatening to kill me everytime it got interesting. Plus it was half price on ebay  I ride groomers, some pow, easy off-piste. Nothing too fancy, but I'm pretty decent on a good day.

Bindings, I got some Salomon SPX 45 from a few seasons back (half-price sale again, what can I say I'm a sucker for last season's stuff). Bootwise I have some 32s, I think Prions, a very decent simple model holding out very well.

I'd love to replace the SPX bindings, they're ok but I get foot pain/fatigue pretty quickly. Plus I find the toeside straps are starting to get loose by themselves nowadays. I'd love something more comfortable and cushy. A couple of years back I tried Burton P1's on another board and they were unbelievably more comfortable, but those disappeared on a bad day.

So my question (sorry for the drivel) is this: does it make sense to put something like the P1's on the timeless, or will the loss in response actually make it harder and more tiresome to drive the board around? I'm guessing the harder the binding, the better the response, and the less work required to get a good line, but maybe that's wrong. I'm nowhere near knowledgeable enough to pick a good binding based on specs, and the choice and tech on the market is mind boggling.

So to summarize, would I be better off getting a well-padded and cushy set of bindings or would that just not make sense on a stiffer board like my Timeless and corrupt the ride altogether?

I'm actually considering the K2 cinch line, quite curious about the rear entry option as I've never tried, although the latest CTX doesn't look like it's heading in the right direction (strap entry made harder). Otherwise if anyone who knows their way around bindings has a suggestion, I'll gladly read up on it.

Thanks a lot.


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## lonerider (Apr 10, 2009)

EdgeFund said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> A bit of background before the actual question just to put it in perspective:
> 
> ...


Cool... I really liked the way the old Ride Timeless rode (a few years ago their discontinued and created a new model called the Ride Concept TMS, which had a more all-mountain freestyle flavor (since Ride realized that all kids want to do it pretend to a pro freestyle rider). I used to have a pair of Salomon SP4 shaped bindings and then a pair of SPX6 (didn't realize they've gotten all the way up to 45).

Cushy straps are great... but the P1 baseplate and highback are too flexy for a stiff board like the Timeless. I had a pairs of P1 that I liked so much I got a second pair when they went on sale for $90. Like you I really liked the comfort of the cushy straps... until I realize they were so flexy that I could bend the baseplate such that one side would come off the topsheet (just standing on the snow and I'm only 155 lbs). I ended up switching the comfy P1 straps to the baseplate of some Burton C60 (found those on sale for $150) with were at the time Burton's stiffest bindings. Here is a video of me riding with them on my Never Summer SL 155.






I also have have a pair of Rome 390's that I have also deemed too flexy for my freeride board. If you are a boot size 9.5 or smaller... I'll sell them to you for $100 shipped.


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## EdgeFund (Dec 13, 2011)

Thanks for the response lonerider. That's a wicked vid, you're doing some serious cake cutting there. I love that feeling of finding that thin groove where the board wants to go and holding on tight :thumbsup: 



lonerider said:


> ...I ended up switching the comfy P1 straps to the baseplate of some Burton C60 (found those on sale for $150) with were at the time Burton's stiffest bindings. Here is a video of me riding with them on my Never Summer SL 155.
> 
> I also have have a pair of Rome 390's that I have also deemed too flexy for my freeride board. If you are a boot size 9.5 or smaller... I'll sell them to you for $100 shipped.


Thanks a lot or the offer but I'm based in Europe so I don't think it's practical. But are you saying the 390's would be a good choice, or still too flexy? I'm gone on to do quite a bit of accompanied freeriding with instructors who know the spots so it's not out of the menu, although I spend more time on packed on average.


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## lonerider (Apr 10, 2009)

EdgeFund said:


> Thanks a lot or the offer but I'm based in Europe so I don't think it's practical. But are you saying the 390's would be a good choice, or still too flexy?


I'm saying that I personally think the older (2008 or 2009) Rome 390's had really comfy straps but, while not as flexy as the 2007 or 2008 Burton P1s, are still little too flexy for me (you just don't as good power transfer into the board). If you were interested in trying them out despite what I've said... then you could (although probably not since you are in Europe). That's what I meant in my previous post.

Last season I rode the 2011 Rome 390 BOSS (which I think are exactly the same as the regular 390s, except with some canted footbed options) and whatever they did in the intervening years has helped make the binding more responsive. It can definitely handle all-mountain riding better than the past models. Rome Targas would be the obvious "freeride binding" choice, but I've never ridden them and don't know how comfortable they are (although I bet they are better than your old Salomon bindings). Here's a review that seems to say they are pretty comfy.

I managed to also finagle a pair of unused Burton CO2 last season for only $150. I haven't ridden them yet. I expect them to be a stiffer, more responsive binding than my Rome 390 BOSS's though.


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## EdgeFund (Dec 13, 2011)

Well thanks again, you're helping me a lot here. It's interesting you should mention the canted footbeds, it's one of the techs that make me think it's time to upgrade. I think what I'll do is check out the different models looking for something quite stiff and with a good power response, but also with canted beds, nice thick straps and maybe some better cushioning. My Salomon's are as bare as they get, plastic base, thin straps, end of story. Nice for 4 years ago, not for today.

The Targa review was very interesting, but it mentions them as the top of the man's range so I'll need to consider the price. I'm not always guaranteed to find a deal on older stuff so I might be forced into new, but it might be best for bindings.


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## Bones (Feb 24, 2008)

I still have a 164 Timeless from the last year they produced it (ie the year before the Concept TMS) Still love to ride it from time to time, it's just a hard charging machine!

I had it paired with stiff Ride SPI bindings. Anything softer and I was torquing crap out of the bindings before the board even noticed.


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## EdgeFund (Dec 13, 2011)

Hi Bones,

I think we have the same board on different lengths. It's exactly that, a charger  Whenever I go for speed on this thing, I always chicken out before the board even begins to chatter. It's taught me to trust my edge and stick to the line. I've also eaten considerable amount of crap, but it's usually when I get tired and I don't commit or I try to ease the demand on the thighs. Then it bites back. But I know it's down to me and not the board.

It's interesting what you say about your setup. I'm wondering if some of the foot pain I experience might be because I have to put too much pressure on the turns to get the board to move. And maybe why I get really localised pains at time. I'll put the SPI on my research list, thanks!


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## dreampow (Sep 26, 2011)

I have a Ride Highlife with Burton cartels on it. Its a stiff freeride board but a bit more playful than the older freeride sticks. Similar to the targa but perhaps a little cheaper and easier to find on sale. 

Basically they have enough stiffness and response while being super comfy. They have cant in the 2012s. 

Just another option.


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## lonerider (Apr 10, 2009)

EdgeFund said:


> Hi Bones,
> It's interesting what you say about your setup. I'm wondering if some of the foot pain I experience might be because I have to put too much pressure on the turns to get the board to move. And maybe why I get really localised pains at time. I'll put the SPI on my research list, thanks!


So I didn't mention this before because I wanted to give you the information you asked for and not go off on a tangent, but I'm not a fan of 32 boots (including the Prions model). In my opinion, they are really, really soft and worthless for freeriding (or snowboarding in general). Softer boots tend to be less durable and when a boot is worn out... you will mysteriously start getting all sorts of foot/ankle/shin issues. 

Back in 2003-2005... I was getting serious heel lift which I think resulted in arch pain (since my arch wasn't supported because my heel was lifting), instep pain (since my heel is lifting top of the foot pushing into the top of my boot) and shin pain (to combat the heel lift I was over-tightening my lace). Over-tightening the laces also creases the boot at the ankle... which causes pressure points and also shortens the lifetime of the boot.

The solution (obvious now in the internet forum era) was to find a pair of boots that fit my feet well and prevented heel-lift with my super skinny ankles... and for me it was Nitro boots (Team or Select models). Ironically, when I first started out snowboarding... I happen to buy a pair of Nitro boots... and got another pair that I rode for several years... but Nitro stopped making boots for a while (at least according to the person I asked at the time, maybe he lied). I got a pair of Salomon boots in 2002 which I liked... but the liner broke down quickly started the pain for a couple of seasons until I stumbled upon Nitro boots again in like 2005... and I've stuck with them ever since. However, Nitro boots might not work for you... so always try them in a store first.

Oh... In 2006 demo'd a splitboard with Ride SPI bindings... but since the binding were ontop of Voile slider plates, it was hard too judge the performance of the bindings (they seemed pretty stiff).


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## Bones (Feb 24, 2008)

EdgeFund said:


> I've also eaten considerable amount of crap, but it's usually when I get tired and I don't commit or I try to ease the demand on the thighs. Then it bites back. But I know it's down to me and not the board.
> 
> It's interesting what you say about your setup. I'm wondering if some of the foot pain I experience might be because I have to put too much pressure on the turns to get the board to move.


Yeah, the Timeless will certainly ride you if you don't ride it. I'm getting older and just started to find that, late in the day, I just didn't have the mojo left in the legs to tame the beast.

That said, localized foot pain may be more related to your boots softening up than the binding. All I'm saying is that it takes a lot to torque the Timeless so if you're wasting effort flexing your boot, then flexing your binding, then less power is getting to the board. And, obviously, you have to put more effort in to get the same results. 

If things have changed noticeably to the point that you're getting localized foot pain, I'd take a closer look at the condition of your boots. Boots will soften up a lot more than bindings will over time.


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## EdgeFund (Dec 13, 2011)

Dreampow, hi and thanks, I'll add it to my research list. I've found some very good generic and specific info on bindings at thegoodride.com. The Targas were a good suggestion, but it looks like I'd be paying for more then I'd use, although as a long-term investment they look hard to beat.

And about the boots...well there's a good chance you've both hit the nail on the head there. 

Lonerider, reading your symptoms, well guess what: heel lift - check; over-tightening laces - check; shin pain - check. And Bones, you've described what I couldn't put into words myself, but it makes damn good sense. So thanks for your perspectives.

Yeah, the more I think about it, I'd need to stiffen up both the bindings and the boots. During my last rides I was tightening the toe strap so hard to squeeze every bit of power I could out of the setup that it was pushing the cap of the boot down to the toes. And I was lacing up so tight I was beginning to wonder if I wasn't doing my blood flow any harm  I feel a bit of a dummy now, but at least I can see a way forward. Not sure I got the cash for boots and bindings, plus they say you have to start with the boot first before the binding to get a good match. I'll keep up the search though, I'm seeing things a lot clearer in terms of what should work best.


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## SnowSource (Aug 21, 2011)

From my experience, a stiffer binding will reduce the foot fatigue related to a softer boot/binding on a stiffer board due to the precise and rigid response from the binding. "Stiff" binding van be interpreted in different ways. I would specifically go for something like the C02 that has a super stiff high-back. Or the DMCC for a similar response level but with more ankle strap comfort. 

In my opinion - ROME does not build a binding that can compete with the DMCC, C02, C60, Diode, Force MC. The real value in Rome bindings is adjustability, which is over valued for a rider who knows exactly what he wants. I assume a guy that appreciates a 7 year old Timeless to the level of researching binding compatibility knows precisely what he wants.


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## EdgeFund (Dec 13, 2011)

Thanks SnowSource, much appreciated. At this point I've checked dozens of models, old and new, and I'm pretty much thinking along those lines. The Targas would be good, but unless I can find a cheap set they'd be overkill. The burtons do look good on paper, and if I can track down a cut-price set of 2011 Co2s or C60s they could be a winner. The Diode will just be super expensive, and the Burton tech-talk and version system is confusing me more than anything. I've still reading up on the DMCC and Force, but availability might be a problem here.

I've found Salomon has candidates too that might be less pricey if I'm forced to buy new, the Chief and Caliber look like they'd be a good match, solid and responsive but with upgraded comfort.


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## EdgeFund (Dec 13, 2011)

Just to conclude: I've found a set of 2010 C60s, new from a shop in the UK, ex display, just over half-price from new. The good thing with that is, it'll be covered by the Burton worldwide guarantee. The guy told me distributors carry spares for 5 years so I'm covered if I get any trouble with the highback and so forth.

I thing it's a sweet deal, looking forward to riding them to see how the ride changes.

Thanks to all for your contributions.


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## lonerider (Apr 10, 2009)

EdgeFund said:


> Just to conclude: I've found a set of 2010 C60s, new from a shop in the UK, ex display, just over half-price from new. The good thing with that is, it'll be covered by the Burton worldwide guarantee. The guy told me distributors carry spares for 5 years so I'm covered if I get any trouble with the highback and so forth.
> 
> I thing it's a sweet deal, looking forward to riding them to see how the ride changes.
> 
> Thanks to all for your contributions.


Those sound perfect ... enjoy... and think about getting new boots as well... they wear out a lot quicker than bindings.


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## EdgeFund (Dec 13, 2011)

Thanks lonerider. I'll definitely keep a close eye on my boots and try to get a feeling for how they come into play.

So then, what's a good boot? I ride a 2007 Timeless, I'm 5 ft 10, ...

:laugh::laugh::laugh:


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