# Japan pow board



## Phedder (Sep 13, 2014)

What's your boot size and riding exp? As long as you can drive it, that 160W Archetype will kill it at 170lb. Endless float and plenty of edge. I want one. Badly.


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## Wolrock (Mar 2, 2013)

Phedder said:


> What's your boot size and riding exp? As long as you can drive it, that 160W Archetype will kill it at 170lb. Endless float and plenty of edge. I want one. Badly.


Ahh yeah forgot to mention that, I wear a size 11 and I have been riding for about a month every season for about 13 years now, so somewhere above advanced (less pow oriented though). I am pretty confident that I can handle it.

Did you get a chance to try one? I am only hearing good things about it, but havent heard from a lot of people that actually own one.


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## futurefunk (Jan 3, 2009)

If you're up in Hokkiado, there's a lot of good powder riding in trees, particularly within the resorts/side country. Probably recommend something nimble and easier to toss around than a big long gun. Haven't ridden anything you listed but that's my recommendation if it helps.


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## Phedder (Sep 13, 2014)

Wolrock said:


> Ahh yeah forgot to mention that, I wear a size 11 and I have been riding for about a month every season for about 13 years now, so somewhere above advanced (less pow oriented though). I am pretty confident that I can handle it.
> 
> Did you get a chance to try one? I am only hearing good things about it, but havent heard from a lot of people that actually own one.


I own a 162 and absolutely love it. I'd love to have the extra width of the 160 for aggressive carving, even in 9.5's I find the limits of the 162 often. As far as pow + carve goes it's my favourite board I've ridden, maintains just enough playfulness that it's never a chore to ride but will always respond and do what's asked of it. I'm sure if I rode more ice I'd find the limits of the effective edge more often, but I'm blessed with fantastic snow conditions most of the time so on the perfect groomer blasting days the edge sinks in beautifully and gives plenty of edgehold, it's the width that holds me back. On ice it's the opposite. 

There's a pretty big thread on here about the Archetype if you search, pretty sure no one had anything bad to say. I certainly didn't :grin:


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## Craig64 (Jul 16, 2015)

https://www.snowboardingforum.com/boards/237545-anyone-ride-endeavor-maverick-archetype.html


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## Wolrock (Mar 2, 2013)

Phedder said:


> I own a 162 and absolutely love it. I'd love to have the extra width of the 160 for aggressive carving, even in 9.5's I find the limits of the 162 often. As far as pow + carve goes it's my favourite board I've ridden, maintains just enough playfulness that it's never a chore to ride but will always respond and do what's asked of it. I'm sure if I rode more ice I'd find the limits of the effective edge more often, but I'm blessed with fantastic snow conditions most of the time so on the perfect groomer blasting days the edge sinks in beautifully and gives plenty of edgehold, it's the width that holds me back. On ice it's the opposite.
> 
> There's a pretty big thread on here about the Archetype if you search, pretty sure no one had anything bad to say. I certainly didn't :grin:


Thanks for sharing, and I feel you on the width. Love my Arbor guch to death, but I cant get low without digging my toes into the snow, haha.

Already read through most of that thread and its definitely one of my prefered choices, but I am kind of worried about how it will do in trees or tighter runs (since 160 is on the bigger side). Its kinda sad that there are not a lot of threads on the Bataleon Surfer, since thats the board keeping me from pulling the trigger on an Archetype.


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## Craig64 (Jul 16, 2015)

Wolrock said:


> Hey guys, I am looking for a new pow board to add to my quiver, for my next Japan trip.
> The only two things I really want it to do is pow and carve, so I have been looking at boards like the
> 
> -Spring Break Slush Slasher
> ...


Have you been to Japan before.


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## Wolrock (Mar 2, 2013)

futurefunk said:


> If you're up in Hokkiado, there's a lot of good powder riding in trees, particularly within the resorts/side country. Probably recommend something nimble and easier to toss around than a big long gun. Haven't ridden anything you listed but that's my recommendation if it helps.


The plan is to visit a few different resorts and Hokkiado is most certainly on that list. 
Was thinking the same thing, hence why I probably wont be bringing my 171 Nidecker Gun haha. 

Appreaciate the input!


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## Wolrock (Mar 2, 2013)

Craig51 said:


> Have you been to Japan before.


Yes, but not during winter. So this will be my first time snowboarding there.


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## redlude97 (Jan 9, 2008)

K2 simple pleasures/cool bean, Prior Khyber/slasher/thruster would be my recommendations


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## Wolrock (Mar 2, 2013)

redlude97 said:


> K2 simple pleasures/cool bean, Prior Khyber/slasher/thruster would be my recommendations


The cool bean and the thruster look good spec wise. Any opinion on how they do edgehold wise? Have read mixed things about that, like that they are hard to turn and wash out on ice very easily.


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## Craig64 (Jul 16, 2015)

Wolrock said:


> Yes, but not during winter. So this will be my first time snowboarding there.


Been to Japan every year for past 7 years. Was initially going to alternate between Japan and Canada, but once going to Hokkaido I thought It can't be any better than this. My wife's brother in law worked in Canada on the mountains for 2 years and I showed him some of our video's and he said it looked better than Canada.
So I find that there are places you can go back country and a full focused powder board would be advantages but I found that I spend most of my time coming off the gondola tops and then smashing it in and out of the untouched powder area's back to the piste as you make your way down to the lift bases. So if you ride like this a freeride/powder board is the absolute go as you'll have that directional tapered setback S rockered ease in the powder and have it covered setting down some solid lines back to the bottom of the lift bases. I normally take 2 to 3 boards over and one set of bindings so you have it all covered. Got a '19 Archetype 162......, great board. My Japan quiver next year is '18 Dump truck 163, '19 Archetype 162 and '19 Custom 166W Just in case there is a bluebird day.:crying:


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## Wolrock (Mar 2, 2013)

Craig51 said:


> Been to Japan every year for past 7 years. Was initially going to alternate between Japan and Canada, but once going to Hokkaido I thought It can't be any better than this. My wife's brother in law worked in Canada on the mountains for 2 years and I showed him some of our video's and he said it looked better than Canada.
> So I find that there are places you can go back country and a full focused powder board would be advantages but I found that I spend most of my time coming off the gondola tops and then smashing it in and out of the untouched powder area's back to the piste as you make your way down to the lift bases. So if you ride like this a freeride/powder board is the absolute go as you'll have that directional tapered setback S rockered ease in the powder and have it covered setting down some solid lines back to the bottom of the lift bases. I normally take 2 to 3 boards over and one set of bindings so you have it all covered. Got a '19 Archetype 162......, great board. My Japan quiver next year is '18 Dump truck 163, '19 Archetype 162 and '19 Custom 166W Just in case there is a bluebird day.:crying:


That sounds awesome! I imagine Japan is also alot closer for you, which probably means you get to snowboard during both summer and winter season (you really are living the dream down there haha). And I feel you on the bluebird board, although I sadly wasnt really able to utilze my 171 Nidecker gun last season 

I am most certainly more of a freeride kinda guy, which is why I would probably be bringing my guch with me too, but the Archetype is starting to sound more and more appealing as a powder/carving deck, especially because the wide version has a decent width to it. 

Thanks for sharing Craig!


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## 16gkid (Dec 5, 2012)

Get the rossignol sushi, literally built for japow, this fucker is unsinkable! plus they have this sick 30th anniversary edition:grin:








https://youtu.be/DPfYk0wg87g


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## Wolrock (Mar 2, 2013)

16gkid said:


> Get the rossignol sushi, literally built for japow, this fucker is unsinkable! plus they have this sick 30th anniversary edition:grin:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Ahh yeah, have heard of it before. Would be interesting to see how it does with carving since it kinda reminds me of a skimboard haha. But that graphic looks sick!


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## Craig64 (Jul 16, 2015)




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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

Cool thread tittle.
For a Japan trip.... I would bring a few boards. So... buy 2 
The Archetype 160W and something like a Yes 420, Rossi Sushi, K2 Simple Pleasures, Jones Mind Expander, Burton Bottom Feeder, etc.

If I had to bring only 1, then it would likely be the Archetype.


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## JDA (Feb 10, 2016)

I took a Burton Skipjack Surf over in 2017.

2018 I took a Springbreak Twin, the Skipjack again and a Nitro Quiver Squash

2019 I am taking the Springbreak Twin again and an Amplid Pillowtalk.


I got sick or riding directional boards so that's why next year I will be on twins. The springbreak is good in the unlikely event of no fresh snow or anything up to 1 foot fresh. I have not ridden my Pillowtalk yet.


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## alpengott (Mar 1, 2018)

F1EA said:


> Cool thread tittle.
> For a Japan trip.... I would bring a few boards. So... buy 2
> The Archetype 160W and something like a Yes 420, Rossi Sushi, K2 Simple Pleasures, Jones Mind Expander, Burton Bottom Feeder, etc.
> 
> If I had to bring only 1, then it would likely be the Archetype.


Funny. You kinda stated my japow2019 quiver.

Archetype 160 w + Sushi + Müllair or Bataleon the one e.s.


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## mtw (Nov 5, 2012)

I took a NS Insta/Gator to Hakuba and Hokkaido this year and it was fantastic, highly recommended.


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## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

While I have not been to Japan yet, from talking to people that have and seeing what the Japanese brands build...

For a short fat board I'd go with a Jones Stormchaser, Rome PD MT, Yes 420 PH, K2 Party Platter, Snofisk Tuna, Rossi Sushi, Bataleon Surfer, Korua Stealth or Dart, Arbor Terrapin (pretty trash on hardpack), anything volume shifted from Moss, Gentem, or TJ Brand.

For a middle width semi fat, Nidecker Mullan, DC HOP, Weston Backwoods, Rome PD MT, Jones Mind Expander, Burton Stun Gun, Lib Lost Rocket, Salomon HPS

Traditional shapes (long), Snofisk Deeps, Korua Pencil, Rome PD PT, Arbor A Frame, K2 Overboard, Jones Lone Wolf, Archetype, Weston Japow, Lib Round Nose Fish, Bataleon Camel Toe, DC Supernatant, Yes PYL.

If I was headed to Japan I'd be bringing my personal Overboard, Zoid, and Agent Alek with either Katanas or Lien ATs, or Both. Pick one probably Lien ATs.

If I could pick anything for the deeps it would probably be the Moss Wing Pin or Bataleon Surfer. I haven't ridden the surfer but I know volume shifted boards, swallow tails, and TBT in pow. That board pretty much can't suck in deep snow.


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## Wolrock (Mar 2, 2013)

F1EA said:


> Cool thread tittle.
> For a Japan trip.... I would bring a few boards. So... buy 2
> The Archetype 160W and something like a Yes 420, Rossi Sushi, K2 Simple Pleasures, Jones Mind Expander, Burton Bottom Feeder, etc.
> 
> If I had to bring only 1, then it would likely be the Archetype.


Haha, yeah not a lot of beating around the bush with that title. 
I like the concept of buying multiple boards, especially since it feeds right into my snowboard buying addiction 



Nivek said:


> While I have not been to Japan yet, from talking to people that have and seeing what the Japanese brands build...
> 
> For a short fat board I'd go with a Jones Stormchaser, Rome PD MT, Yes 420 PH, K2 Party Platter, Snofisk Tuna, Rossi Sushi, Bataleon Surfer, Korua Stealth or Dart, Arbor Terrapin (pretty trash on hardpack), anything volume shifted from Moss, Gentem, or TJ Brand.
> 
> ...


Thats a quite a detailed list, thank you very much! 
Gentem seems interesting, although their selection is so huge that I dont even know what to look for in their boards. 


But I think thats what I am gonna do then, get a short and fat one (probably a Sushi), a more traditional one (the Archetype) and one that I am just fascinated with (the Surfer). 
Any recommendations on sizes for the short ones (since I have no experience with volume shifted boards)? (6"2, 170lbs)

Otherwise thanks to everyone who posted. This thread got quite some traction, didnt expect that to be honest, haha.


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

Wolrock said:


> I like the concept of buying multiple boards, especially since it feeds right into my snowboard buying addiction


Yes, specially for a trip and to a place that's VERY different from where you ride most and what you're used to. So it's difficult to have a board that you find "good" in whatever you normally ride, then be good as well in Japan............ thus, a couple of boards to give you options and maximize enjoyment based on what you find when you get there.


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## unsuspected (Oct 26, 2015)

Wolrock said:


> Haha, yeah not a lot of beating around the bush with that title.
> I like the concept of buying multiple boards, especially since it feeds right into my snowboard buying addiction
> 
> 
> ...


I think that some solid choices. Sushi only comes in one size 145 and Surfer in two, 154 and 159. Archie would be fine in 160W or 162.
Im 5'11 230 and bought the Surfer in 159.


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## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

Well the Sushi only comes in 145. So that size. I think the same on the 420 PH, one size. Party Platter dont matter, all good any size. The Rome MT is listed twice cause the 53 is wider than the 57. Both sizes will work. You're good on literally any of the Japanese made boards that aren't kids.


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## MMSlasher (Mar 18, 2016)

Nivek said:


> I think the same on the 420 PH, one size. Party Platter dont matter, all good any size.


I thought a while back that you and BA preferred the regular 420 over the 420PH, am I mistaken?


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## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

For most aspects yes, for pure float the PH makes sense.


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## akcom (Sep 1, 2018)

For what it's worth, I'm going to Japan this year and decided to bring a 145cm rossignol sushi for tight tree runs and a 159 bataleon surfer for everything else.


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## Fiddsy (Jul 12, 2015)

Not to hijack but also looking for a pow board for japan.
Sold all my quiver except my Burton FA.
Didn't enjoy the FA that much earlier in japan this year when in tight trees. For everything else it was great.
Mainly eying out 
NS Swift
But also looking at maybe burton fish something similar - want a surfy feel, great float and good turn initiation for dem sexy trees!


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## MMSlasher (Mar 18, 2016)

Craig51 said:


> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qh4lLqKD78A


This video led to their other video where one guy rode the Sushi and the other guy rode Nitro The Quiver Pow (or something like that in Japan), and just as an observer, the Nitro seemed to do better. I have seen a few of their videos before and they both ride equally well, in fact I would say that the guy on the sushi is usually the better rider. It opened my eyes to that board (Nitro Quiver Pow).

And if you check out Evo, their are now 2 sizes of the Sushi. A 144 and a 145w. Just putting that out their.


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## OneManArmy (Nov 11, 2017)

Fiddsy said:


> Not to hijack but also looking for a pow board for japan.
> Sold all my quiver except my Burton FA.
> Didn't enjoy the FA that much earlier in japan this year when in tight trees. For everything else it was great.
> Mainly eying out
> ...


Can't beat a fish in my opinion.


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## Fiddsy (Jul 12, 2015)

OneManArmy said:


> Fiddsy said:
> 
> 
> > Not to hijack but also looking for a pow board for japan.
> ...


It is cheaper plus means I could swap my bindings over rather than buying new bindings so that's a bonus!
But something about the NS Swift makes me all warm and fuzzy so it's a bit of a tough one for me!


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## SGboarder (Jun 24, 2012)

Fiddsy said:


> It is cheaper plus means I could swap my bindings over rather than buying new bindings so that's a bonus!
> But something about the NS Swift makes me all warm and fuzzy so it's a bit of a tough one for me!


Fish over Swift any and everyday for Japow


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## Fiddsy (Jul 12, 2015)

SGboarder said:


> Fiddsy said:
> 
> 
> > It is cheaper plus means I could swap my bindings over rather than buying new bindings so that's a bonus!
> ...


Yea I think I'll go a burton pow board.
Makes sense with only needing 1 set if bindings for 2 boards, especially with traveling..
Now looking at fish vs mystery fish vs burtons new bottom feeder..
Bottom feeder might be 2 short at 150
I'd want to downsize on the fish to a 156 (usually board a 162) but my weight fully geared up would be on the upper end


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## Decade190 (Feb 26, 2012)

Fiddsy said:


> Yea I think I'll go a burton pow board.
> Makes sense with only needing 1 set if bindings for 2 boards, especially with traveling..
> Now looking at fish vs mystery fish vs burtons new bottom feeder..
> Bottom feeder might be 2 short at 150
> I'd want to downsize on the fish to a 156 (usually board a 162) but my weight fully geared up would be on the upper end


You know the bottom feeder has the same surface area as the 156 fish so shouldn't be too short. both built for the same weight range. bottom feeder a hell of a lot cheaper too

i'd go for that for japanese pow.


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## Fiddsy (Jul 12, 2015)

Decade190 said:


> You know the bottom feeder has the same surface area as the 156 fish so shouldn't be too short. both built for the same weight range. bottom feeder a hell of a lot cheaper too
> 
> i'd go for that for japanese pow.


Yea and I'd be over the weight limit for both geared up unless I drop a few kegs.
Fish has a 161 but that kinda defeats my goal of getting a shorter fat board for pow/trees


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

Fiddsy said:


> Yea and I'd be over the weight limit for both geared up unless I drop a few kegs.
> Fish has a 161 but that kinda defeats my goal of getting a shorter fat board for pow/trees


See if you can find a 156 Panhandler.

I have a 152 PH and a 161 Fish, and have tried the 156 PH. The 156 PH floats as much as the 161 Fish and carved even better. The 152 PH is super fun and playful and floats like a boss. I'm 170 lbs.

PH = awesome.


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## Fiddsy (Jul 12, 2015)

F1EA said:


> See if you can find a 156 Panhandler.
> 
> I have a 152 PH and a 161 Fish, and have tried the 156 PH. The 156 PH floats as much as the 161 Fish and carved even better. The 152 PH is super fun and playful and floats like a boss. I'm 170 lbs.
> 
> PH = awesome.


I'll have a look, I'm currently about 200lbs and trying to get myself back to about 190lbs or less..
On the heavier side for recommended board weights..


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## Fiddsy (Jul 12, 2015)

Local store actually has 1 in stock and on sale, may have to swing past and have a look!


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

Fiddsy said:


> Local store actually has 1 in stock and on sale, may have to swing past and have a look!


I tried the 156 PH first (before all the stats came out) and was super amazed. I couldn't believe it floated that much, was super poppy and fun. 
Almost bought it, but after the stats came out I realized it floated that much because the weight rating was same as my 161 Fish . 

So then I bought the 152 PH instead, because most of my other boards are 159 to 165. So I wanted something different, and so glad I got the 152. I would buy the 152 all over again. So much fun. 

And also I'm actually at 180 lbs right now. winter needs to get going. :embarrased1:


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## SGboarder (Jun 24, 2012)

F1EA said:


> See if you can find a 156 Panhandler.
> 
> I have a 152 PH and a 161 Fish, and have tried the 156 PH. The 156 PH floats as much as the 161 Fish and carved even better. The 152 PH is super fun and playful and floats like a boss. I'm 170 lbs.
> 
> PH = awesome.





Fiddsy said:


> Local store actually has 1 in stock and on sale, may have to swing past and have a look!


Panhandler could also work. And as F1EA said, you should go shorter on it than with the Fish. That said, 161 Fish will not be an issue in the trees and is still a somewhat better board for Japan.


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

SGboarder said:


> Panhandler could also work. And as F1EA said, you should go shorter on it than with the Fish. That said, 161 Fish will not be an issue in the trees and is still a somewhat better board for Japan.


Yes to what he said . The 156 PH will float as much as a 161 Fish, BUT the fish simply feels different. In deep pow it is a unique experience. 

If you're looking for a more volume-shifted, carvy and versatile board, that will float as much as the Fish, then the PH is dope. I would actually take BOTH on a deep powder trip. So there's no way I would leave a Fish out of a deep powder trip.


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## Fiddsy (Jul 12, 2015)

Ahah
Now u got me tossing up between the fish/mystery fish/panhandler/bottom feeder..
So much for narrowing it down ?


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## Fiddsy (Jul 12, 2015)

Local stores have -
156 mystery fish
161 fish
156 panhandler
150 bottom feeder

I'd say it'd prob narrow down between the fish and panhandler due to weight..
Geared up I'd prob be between 200-210lbs

I got my 162W FA for bombing into runs and carving..
I just want that sexy pow/tree board which I felt the FA lacked when i was in japan!


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## SGboarder (Jun 24, 2012)

Fiddsy said:


> Local stores have -
> 156 mystery fish
> 161 fish
> 156 panhandler
> ...


Easy decision: Mystery Fish and Bottom Feeder are too short (and Mystery construction is generally not worth it especially on the Fish).
PH 156 and Fish 161 can both work for you. But as first pow board it is the Fish, no questions asked.


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## Karen Adamian (Oct 28, 2018)

Wolrock said:


> Hey guys, I am looking for a new pow board to add to my quiver, for my next Japan trip.
> The only two things I really want it to do is pow and carve, so I have been looking at boards like the
> 
> -Spring Break Slush Slasher
> ...


I was in niseko in jan18

Took my swallowtail snowboard with me (182cm swellpanik magistral)...and regretted that!

First, there is flagship store/rental of Gentemstick - i weigh same as you my fav board from gentem was the big fish. You can rent the board for 2 500yen and if you decide to buy they will substract the rental from the price.

Second, there is this guy, Joseph Frick, who has lots of different specialised boards from Winterstick, Moss, Gentem, Dupraz, Swellpanik and Pogo! Check out his website - shibumisnowsurf.com

So i would strongly advise you from purchasing any board and taking it with you - rent the board in niseko and then make your decision!

p.s. you WILL struggle with US made fishboards - they are not made for japanese conditions, e.g. shallow terrain with LOTS of powder. For this conditions the board should either be VERY wide and fat or compensate this with length. Look at the gentemstick big fish dimensions for example and compare the specs with similar boards from us manufacturers and you will get what i mean


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## Fiddsy (Jul 12, 2015)

SGboarder said:


> Easy decision: Mystery Fish and Bottom Feeder are too short (and Mystery construction is generally not worth it especially on the Fish).
> PH 156 and Fish 161 can both work for you. But as first pow board it is the Fish, no questions asked.


Actually I just realised burton hasnt come out with the new seasons fish yet?
Fkn hate the 2018 graphic ?
Hang on I just checked...
Fish is out this season.. balls.


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## Rip154 (Sep 23, 2017)

They probably want to sell a good number of the mystery fish since it's being made in VT, doubt it's been dropped from the line. Could be some nice surprises mid season too I guess.


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## frankyfc (Aug 11, 2017)

SGboarder said:


> Easy decision: Mystery Fish and Bottom Feeder are too short (and Mystery construction is generally not worth it especially on the Fish).
> PH 156 and Fish 161 can both work for you. But as first pow board it is the Fish, no questions asked.


whats wrong with the bottom feeder? 
i'm about 170lbs good rider and was going to get one for japan pow/tree board myself
Felt like a shorter wider fish when had a look in store.


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## SGboarder (Jun 24, 2012)

frankyfc said:


> whats wrong with the bottom feeder?
> i'm about 170lbs good rider and was going to get one for japan pow/tree board myself
> Felt like a shorter wider fish when had a look in store.


There's absolutely nothing wrong with the bottom feeder in general and also for you. But they guy asking above has 30lbs on you and for him the bottom feeder is too small/doesn't have enough float for Japan.


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## SGboarder (Jun 24, 2012)

Karen Adamian said:


> p.s. you WILL struggle with US made fishboards - they are not made for japanese conditions, e.g. shallow terrain with LOTS of powder. For this conditions the board should either be VERY wide and fat or compensate this with length. Look at the gentemstick big fish dimensions for example and compare the specs with similar boards from us manufacturers and you will get what i mean


Nah, lots of people ride US made/US brand board in Japan - heaps of Fishes, Hovercrafts, Swifts you name it. They work perfectly well. 
Keep in mind that Japan doesn't get _that_ much snow. Yes, great quality powder and the regularity during the main season is amazing, but many places in UT, BC, WY etc get similar or more snow.


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## Rip154 (Sep 23, 2017)

You might pull it off. As long as the speed is good, anything goes. When you are over the rec weight, the snow has been on the ground for a few days, and you lose speed on the flats, thats when you start sinking, and it won't be fun. Fish and similar boards has lots of taper and a big flexy nose, so you stay on top longer, but theres still a point where you sink. Figure the last comment was prolly related to weight. It has to be good for the right weight/speed in the right conditions. I've been able to sink the big fish too, in deep wet snow, but in light powder it's awesome.


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## Karen Adamian (Oct 28, 2018)

SGboarder said:


> Nah, lots of people ride US made/US brand board in Japan - heaps of Fishes, Hovercrafts, Swifts you name it. They work perfectly well.
> Keep in mind that Japan doesn't get _that_ much snow. Yes, great quality powder and the regularity during the main season is amazing, but many places in UT, BC, WY etc get similar or more snow.



As far as i know, Japan is THE snowiest place on earth, even beyond places in Utah...

Regarding the fishes/hovers/swifts etc they are very good boards but they can't be taken seriously in two scenarios: riding in fall line speed and riding on rollers (lack of length and short nose will slow you down)

p.s. i forgot to mention that i am not a "quiver" guy, so, for that matter, i will never buy certain boards (fish, for example)


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## Karen Adamian (Oct 28, 2018)

Rip154 said:


> You might pull it off. As long as the speed is good, anything goes. When you are over the rec weight, the snow has been on the ground for a few days, and you lose speed on the flats, thats when you start sinking, and it won't be fun. Fish and similar boards has lots of taper and a big flexy nose, so you stay on top longer, but theres still a point where you sink. Figure the last comment was prolly related to weight. It has to be good for the right weight/speed in the right conditions. I've been able to sink the big fish too, in deep wet snow, but in light powder it's awesome.


exactly my thought!


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## SGboarder (Jun 24, 2012)

Karen Adamian said:


> As far as i know, Japan is THE snowiest place on earth, even beyond places in Utah...


Depends in part on how you define 'snowiest' (at what altitude, over what period, sustained, peak vs. average, etc.). But if you go by snow at resorts/areas where you can ride (as opposed to some remote mountain peak), then Japan ranks 'up there' but certainly not #1 . 
This list is an example/representative: https://www.inthesnow.com/worlds-snowiest-ski-resorts/

Again, Japan pow is amazing (part of the reason I'm based there every winter), but it is not that different from many other places.



Karen Adamian said:


> Regarding the fishes/hovers/swifts etc they are very good boards but they can't be taken seriously in two scenarios: riding in fall line speed and riding on rollers (lack of length and short nose will slow you down)


Sure they can. That's why many people (both visitors and locals) here ride them. They work just as well as the Gentem/Moss/whatever decks.


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

No need get the Mystery Fish. Too expensive for what is a quiver board with a technology that's not really needed in deep pow.

Bottom Feeder is 150. I would ride it for sure, especially knowing the 152 Panhandler. But definitely not for a 210 lbs guy.

So yeah keep it between the 161 Fish (from previous season because this seas its only mystery) or 156 Panhandler (also from previous because they aren't making it this season).

Since you already have a Flight attendant and are going to Japan, get the Fish. If you wanted a bit more of a do it all super floaty powder board, get the PH.


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## Argo (Feb 25, 2010)

I would take one all around board im comfortable with then demo some japow boards while there. If one of them tickles you the right way you can buy it and have a good souvenir.


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## frankyfc (Aug 11, 2017)

F1EA said:


> No need get the Mystery Fish. Too expensive for what is a quiver board with a technology that's not really needed in deep pow.
> 
> Bottom Feeder is 150. I would ride it for sure, especially knowing the 152 Panhandler. But definitely not for a 210 lbs guy.
> 
> ...


Would you ride the bottom feeder at 170lbs for japow?
I had the 2018 156 fish for niseko this year and it was great - but cracked it at the end of the season so was refunded. Looking for a bottom feeder as a worthy replacement - thinking it may be even more manoeuvrable in tight trees.


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

frankyfc said:


> Would you ride the bottom feeder at 170lbs for japow?
> I had the 2018 156 fish for niseko this year and it was great - but cracked it at the end of the season so was refunded. Looking for a bottom feeder as a worthy replacement - thinking it may be even more manoeuvrable in tight trees.


Absolutely yes. I didn't get to try the Bottom Feeder, but comparing it to my 152 PH, I would absolutely ride it in the deep at 170 lbs (even at the slightly heavier I am right now - but that'll get fixed once the snow starts rolling hah).

I have a 161 Fish and the 152 PH is more playful, more maneauverable in tight trees, has more tail to pop off and better carving ability (longer edge, nicer side cut for carving). Fish and PH feel a little bit different.

The difference is that the PH is a shorter pow board that feels almost like a regular board and floats a ton; and the Fish is simply a unique feeling in pow (talking about the newer flat to rocker Fish). Feels kind of like a surfboard.


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

Argo said:


> I would take one all around board im comfortable with then demo some japow boards while there. If one of them tickles you the right way you can buy it and have a good souvenir.


This would be really cool; but sometimes many people go on a trip, have their days somewhat counted and wanna to be ready when the pow drops. So demoing, searching around for boards, deals (specially in a foreign land) can make things harder; not to mention making quick decisions while there and just getting a board...

So if it were ME. I'd bring my 161 Fish, 152 Panhandler and 158 Archetype. AND bring back a Gentem or Moss 

Other cool options are the Korua boards, some of the new Lib pow boards, Swift, Yes 420, etc etc.


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## Fiddsy (Jul 12, 2015)

F1EA said:


> No need get the Mystery Fish. Too expensive for what is a quiver board with a technology that's not really needed in deep pow.
> 
> Bottom Feeder is 150. I would ride it for sure, especially knowing the 152 Panhandler. But definitely not for a 210 lbs guy.
> 
> ...


Firstly, thanks for taking the time to answer my question dude, killer!

Secondly, just to break it down a little..
I'm going to get similar float between the 156 PH and the 161 fish and reletively similar handling.
Biggest difference is the 'feel' PH being more standard board and fish more surfy?

Yea going to be a hard decision for me ?
I want the surfy feel but I love doing big turns!
In saying that, I got my FA for bombing into big open terrain and doing big turns and carved..

Really its purpose will be used on massive dumps where it doesnt matter if I'm on or off piste and/or slack/backcountry tree riding.
So float, good turning and more playful flex then my FA is what I'm after..
Hard to choose without actually having got the feel from either without riding them ?


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## alpengott (Mar 1, 2018)

Buy a offshore snow shapes snurf up directly in their factory near niseko ?

Best I ever had and I got a lot 

Archetype 160w
Rossi black ops
Sushi
Etc

Snurf up is no1 and I will add a offshore sea biscuit as well this year


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

Fiddsy said:


> Firstly, thanks for taking the time to answer my question dude, killer!
> 
> Secondly, just to break it down a little..
> I'm going to get similar float between the 156 PH and the 161 fish and reletively similar handling.
> ...


Yeah both the Fish and Panhandler will have a floatier and more playful flex than the Flight Attendant. Most Burton boards are very turny, so you will have 0 issues in that department. 

But overall, yes, Fish is more setback, shorter effective edge and tight sidecut; more of a regular length board and pretty much no tail... so all of this means it's basically a surfboard. The Panhandler is more of a volume-shifted board, so the board's surface is a little bit more evenly distributed... so you get more tail and a generally wider board. The effective edge and sidecut radius are pretty normal, so it holds edge and carves like a normal board, and because of the width you can really lean into turns so very good carving. Also, it has a decent tail.... I find it super fun for goofing around. 

The difference is that it doesnt have the same totally surfboard feel of the Fish with the benefit of being more versatile if you dont mind a wider board.

The Archetype is awesome too. Sort of a no compromise board. Does everything from big and fast to poppy and playful pow to groomers.


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## Craig64 (Jul 16, 2015)

Grabbed a '18 Fish 161 today at 40% off. Can't wait for the delivery to come. Thanks for your help F1EA.


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## Craig64 (Jul 16, 2015)

What would be the best bindings for a Fish....., Genesis or Genesis X.


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

Craig51 said:


> What would be the best bindings for a Fish....., Genesis or Genesis X.


For sure Genesis X. Normal Genesis if you really sized down or if you are only going to ride it in deep pow...


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## Craig64 (Jul 16, 2015)

F1EA said:


> For sure Genesis X. Normal Genesis if you really sized down or if you are only going to ride it in deep pow...


 That's what I was thinking that in the powder Genesis would be pretty solid.


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## OneManArmy (Nov 11, 2017)

Craig51 said:


> Grabbed a '18 Fish 161 today at 40% off. Can't wait for the delivery to come. Thanks for your help F1EA.


Where did you find it? I'm trying to find one. I'd even take a 17.


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## SGboarder (Jun 24, 2012)

Craig51 said:


> What would be the best bindings for a Fish....., Genesis or Genesis X.


Genesis for the extra flex in powder and the extra response on groomers


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## Craig64 (Jul 16, 2015)

OneManArmy said:


> Where did you find it? I'm trying to find one. I'd even take a 17.


Australia mate......., it's summer over here lots of cheap boards. Just did a price check for you guys. $US360 delivered......, is that cheap??? 

Just came today. Factory wrapped......, so stoked.


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## Fiddsy (Jul 12, 2015)

Craig51 said:


> OneManArmy said:
> 
> 
> > Where did you find it? I'm trying to find one. I'd even take a 17.
> ...


Shhiiiiiiiiiit which shop did 40% off!?
Best I've found is 20% off atm


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## Craig64 (Jul 16, 2015)

Fiddsy said:


> Shhiiiiiiiiiit which shop did 40% off!?
> Best I've found is 20% off atm


Wilderness in Sydney had it listed for $599 on the weekend plus they had an extra 10% off sale on plus I get my 10% GST back when I fly overseas to Japan so it ended up costing me $Au490. All with free tracked delivery.


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## Fiddsy (Jul 12, 2015)

Craig51 said:


> Fiddsy said:
> 
> 
> > Shhiiiiiiiiiit which shop did 40% off!?
> ...


Solid..
Have to check of theres stil a sale!


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## Craig64 (Jul 16, 2015)

Fiddsy said:


> Solid..
> Have to check of theres stil a sale!


They jacked up the price to $629 yesterday. It was $599 all before that and they had an extra 10% sale off on the weekend. The manager is Deb' she's pretty good. I paid $Au539 for mine delivered. It was the cheapest I could find in Australia. There are not many around. I spoke to her this morning. Just tell her Craig (Fish 161) recommended giving you a call to see if you could help out and get the same deal as him. This was my Order id: *#17356* :wink:

I'm on a lot of mailing lists. Quiksilver/Roxy/DC had a 50% sale off everything in snow a few months ago. I find Trigger Bros is pretty good...., just sign up to them and you get almost 20% off all stock regardless of the items release date. So you can get reduced price gear when it has just hit the store. Free delivery as well.


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## Fiddsy (Jul 12, 2015)

Craig51 said:


> Fiddsy said:
> 
> 
> > Solid..
> ...


I do a fair bit though Melbourne snowboard, stm online, auski, rhythm and a few others inc tiggerbros.. twelve board store not bad either in store


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## Craig64 (Jul 16, 2015)

Fiddsy said:


> I do a fair bit though Melbourne snowboard, stm online, auski, rhythm and a few others inc tiggerbros.. twelve board store not bad either in store


I found Amazon USA was pretty good before the Liberals screwed us with GST on overseas imports under $1000. They had free international delivery over a certain amount from USA to Australia. I have a shipito mail box in the USA. It's $US50 a year and you can get anything sent there and imported back to Australia. It's really good. Heaps of photo's and they consolidate multi purchases into the one box. They just chucked GST a few months ago on so you've got to be smart to get around that or get it reduced (Gifts = no docket). But you can get a lot of high end gear from the USA which they don't sell in Australia when they are on sale. Burton don't import to Australia from US stores so this is a way to achieve this.


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## Fiddsy (Jul 12, 2015)

Craig51 said:


> Fiddsy said:
> 
> 
> > I do a fair bit though Melbourne snowboard, stm online, auski, rhythm and a few others inc tiggerbros.. twelve board store not bad either in store
> ...


My father in law is an International pilot who regularly does the USA, I can get delivered to any of this regular hotels and they hold any items/mail for him. He just then picks it up when hes next there and brings it back ??


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## Craig64 (Jul 16, 2015)

Fiddsy said:


> My father in law is an International pilot who regularly does the USA, I can get delivered to any of this regular hotels and they hold any items/mail for him. He just then picks it up when hes next there and brings it back ??


You've got it sorted:wink:


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## OneManArmy (Nov 11, 2017)

Craig51 said:


> Australia mate......., it's summer over here lots of cheap boards. Just did a price check for you guys. $US360 delivered......, is that cheap???
> 
> Just came today. Factory wrapped......, so stoked.


Yeah, that's real cheap. I'd gladly pay that.


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## killerloop82 (Oct 29, 2016)

Nivek said:


> While I have not been to Japan yet, from talking to people that have and seeing what the Japanese brands build...
> 
> For a short fat board I'd go with a Jones Stormchaser, Rome PD MT, Yes 420 PH, K2 Party Platter, Snofisk Tuna, Rossi Sushi, Bataleon Surfer, Korua Stealth or Dart, Arbor Terrapin (pretty trash on hardpack), anything volume shifted from Moss, Gentem, or TJ Brand.
> 
> ...



What can you tell me about the Korua Dart and the Bataleon Surfer? Thanks


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## MrHonshu (Jun 22, 2018)

You could ride an ironing board in Japan and it would work.

But definitely worth looking into some of the smaller brands that actually make boards in Japan. 

Also something with a fast base, due to volume of snow and mellow terrain.


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## Mikku (Mar 29, 2012)

Plus one on ^^^^ this!!


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## alpengott (Mar 1, 2018)

This year I ll take following boards to Japan:

Gentemstick The Chaser 156
Rome Ravine
Offshore Snurf up

May be I ll switch the Ravine with my Overboard or Rossignol Black ops. have not made my final decision yet. Chaser and Snurf up are set as they need to be in their natural habitat


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## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

alpengott said:


> This year I ll take following boards to Japan:
> 
> Gentemstick The Chaser 156
> Rome Ravine
> ...


Not that you asked for advice, but I own a Ravine and Overboard too, so here's my $0.04. With the Gentem already in the lineup, go Overboard. I quiver thinking of that board in Japan deep, and if you end up with a groomer day it's still tits. I absolutely love the Ravine, but for Japan, I'd be bringing my Overboard.


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## MrHonshu (Jun 22, 2018)

Have you ridden the Snurfs Up from Offshore? How does it perform?

I have been contemplating one of those or the Cabin Fever.


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## Giddyhitch (Nov 10, 2018)

F1EA said:


> The 156 PH will float as much as a 161 Fish, BUT the fish simply feels different. In deep pow it is a unique experience.
> 
> If you're looking for a more volume-shifted, carvy and versatile board, that will float as much as the Fish, then the PH is dope. I would actually take BOTH on a deep powder trip. So there's no way I would leave a Fish out of a deep powder trip.


It would figure that Burton would drop the Fish this year just as I get ready to pull the trigger on my first powder board (demo'ed the Fish and Mod Fish last season, and much preferred the former). Is there anything out this season that rides like a Fish? Looking for a playful pow board for cat and heli trips closer to 160 than 150 since the super shortie fatties kinda sketch me out for steeps and boosting off lips.


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

Giddyhitch said:


> It would figure that Burton would drop the Fish this year just as I get ready to pull the trigger on my first powder board (demo'ed the Fish and Mod Fish last season, and much preferred the former). Is there anything out this season that rides like a Fish? Looking for a playful pow board for cat and heli trips closer to 160 than 150 since the super shortie fatties kinda sketch me out for steeps and boosting off lips.


Yes, the 158 Stun Gun.
It's a fishyfied Flight Attendant/Dump Truck. A bit volume-shifted, but nothing radical. Not exactly a steeps and high speed groomer destroyer.... but definitely a fun and playful powder board that rides kind of like a Fish.

Also, Capita Kazu. Doesn't feel quite like a Fish, but does the other things you mentioned...

There's more boards worth looking at... Basically, most of the "Fish" feeling comes from the big setback, taper, short eff edge and tight sidecut. Then the camber profile, flex and tail cutout.


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## benjinyc (Feb 24, 2017)

Japan's The House of Powder









_DC teamed up with the experts at Japan's The House of Powder to create the DC HR Snowboard, a dedicated pow surfer for pillaging the untracked. A super fast Sintered Supreme base underneath and a wide, floaty nose out front, along with the responsive S-Camber profile keep the speed high, the control in the deep stuff excellent, and the stoke dialed way up. DC s Light Core offers a smooth, refined ride while keeping the overall weight low. When the conditions call for powder, hop on the DC HR Snowboard and write your white line legacy on the mountain._


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## alpengott (Mar 1, 2018)

MrHonshu said:


> Have you ridden the Snurfs Up from Offshore? How does it perform?
> 
> I have been contemplating one of those or the Cabin Fever.


Its an awesome snowboard. If I would be only using a single board it would be the snurf up. The production quality is the best I have seen in 25 years and it rides awesome on poste / off piste. The cabin fever is next on my list.


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## alpengott (Mar 1, 2018)

Nivek said:


> alpengott said:
> 
> 
> > This year I ll take following boards to Japan:
> ...


 @Nivek 
Nevertheless thanks for your feedback. I am really looking forward to you guys reviewing offshore boards. They went out of nowhere to my favorite brand. The owners are exceptional friendly and supportive as well. 

Due to an outstanding price I just added a mystery fish to my quiver. Now it really gets complicated ?


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

benjinyc said:


> Japan's The House of Powder
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yeah that looks good too. Of course, you would have to go in a bit blind as Im not sure many people have been on that one but... the numbers look nice.


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

F1EA said:


> Yes, the 158 Stun Gun.
> It's a fishyfied Flight Attendant/Dump Truck. A bit volume-shifted, but nothing radical. Not exactly a steeps and high speed groomer destroyer.... but definitely a fun and playful powder board that rides kind of like a Fish.
> 
> Also, Capita Kazu. Doesn't feel quite like a Fish, but does the other things you mentioned...
> ...


Actually, here's 1min on the 155 Stun Gun:

https://www.instagram.com/p/Bsn6VvfH-Bj/?utm_source=ig_share_sheet&igshid=3uksr4jsre8t

The model is ~170+ Lbs 5'11"
Boots are 10.5 Vans verse
56cm stance at +25 +5....


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## Giddyhitch (Nov 10, 2018)

F1EA said:


> Yes, the 158 Stun Gun.
> It's a fishyfied Flight Attendant/Dump Truck. A bit volume-shifted, but nothing radical. Not exactly a steeps and high speed groomer destroyer.... but definitely a fun and playful powder board that rides kind of like a Fish.
> 
> Also, Capita Kazu. Doesn't feel quite like a Fish, but does the other things you mentioned...
> ...


Awesome, thanks for your recs and perspective on this, especially on critical design elements that give you that Fishy feel. With that in mind, any thoughts or experience on how a Simple Pleasures or 420 rides in comparison to a Fish? 420 goes against my length target but I'm drawn to it nevertheless.


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

Giddyhitch said:


> Awesome, thanks for your recs and perspective on this, especially on critical design elements that give you that Fishy feel. With that in mind, any thoughts or experience on how a Simple Pleasures or 420 rides in comparison to a Fish? 420 goes against my length target but I'm drawn to it nevertheless.


To be honest, neither the Simple Pleasures of 420 ride or feel like a Fish. The 420 maybe a bit closer, but the K2 not even close.
420 would be great for Japan though. It just feels a bit different than a Fish. 

Also, one thing you have to realize is that the stability and ability to handle steeps you talk about are probably more related to wherever you normally ride. In a place with snow like Japan, even a non-speed board (like Fish, or Stun Gun, 420, etc) will still be really fun and feel more stable at speeds and on steeper slopes than if you were to ride steep icy/choppy/tracked out/etc kind of terrain.

To give you an idea of the numbers... the 161 Fish has: 50mm (2in) setback, 30mm taper, 6.4m sidecut and 1145 mm effective edge. The new fishes are flat to rocker and mid flex. I wrote down these numbers from my Fish a while ago so maybe there's been some slight changes, but I think it's the same... very few other boards have these numbers and this is why the Fish has such a unique kind of feel.

The 152 Yes 420 has 1.5in setback, 16mm taper, 6.1m radius and 1075mm edge. It's also flat to rocker and a bit stiffer than the Fish. So this one definitely floats and has a similar spirit to the Fish (short sidecut, short eff edge, setback and taper), but the difference in setback and taper make it ride differently. More evenly distributed than the Fish, which is very directional. So you gain more tail, and more evenly distributed volume, this really affects how you steer the board specially on groomers, but also in powder.

None of this is good or bad. Just saying how and why they ride differently.


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## Fiddsy (Jul 12, 2015)

Couldnt help myself, picked up the fish
View attachment 146163


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## Craig64 (Jul 16, 2015)

F1EA said:


> Yeah that looks good too. Of course, you would have to go in a bit blind as Im not sure many people have been on that one but... the numbers look nice.


Does the DC THOP look similar to the Dump Truck in specs. The outline looks close.


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

Craig51 said:


> Does the DC THOP look similar to the Dump Truck in specs. The outline looks close.


Nope. Totally different, definitely close to the Fish (wide nose, short edge, tight sidecut radius, etc). 
Dump truck has the setback, but everything else is a little bit more regular "freeride board" kind of numbers.

Landlord and Dump Truck are "surfy" freeride boards. So they have that kind of Fishy idea but adapted into a board that will handle groomers, speed and steeps better... (less nose width, a bit longer sidecut, longer edge, more camber, stiffer, etc).


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## Giddyhitch (Nov 10, 2018)

F1EA said:


> To be honest, neither the Simple Pleasures of 420 ride or feel like a Fish. The 420 maybe a bit closer, but the K2 not even close.
> 420 would be great for Japan though. It just feels a bit different than a Fish.
> 
> Also, one thing you have to realize is that the stability and ability to handle steeps you talk about are probably more related to wherever you normally ride. In a place with snow like Japan, even a non-speed board (like Fish, or Stun Gun, 420, etc) will still be really fun and feel more stable at speeds and on steeper slopes than if you were to ride steep icy/choppy/tracked out/etc kind of terrain.
> ...


Ugh, the desire for a Fish only increases. 

In general, would you say that less setback, less taper, more radius, and more edge increase stability at the expense of playfulness? The Fish does have some very unique numbers in that regard. What about something like the Capita Spring Break Powder 161 - rocker-flat-rocker profile, ? setback, 71mm taper (!!!), 6.6m radius, 1215 edge?

And just to clarify, my immediate need is for a Whistler and northern BC backcountry board with Japan hopefully in a couple of years. This is a pure powder board purchase that will not see any groomers, ice (hopefully), and only the occasional cat track.

Apologies for any thread derailment.





Fiddsy said:


> Couldnt help myself, picked up the fish
> View attachment 146163


I'm officially jealous ... even if I can't see your attachment.


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## Giddyhitch (Nov 10, 2018)

F1EA said:


> Actually, here's 1min on the 155 Stun Gun:
> 
> https://www.instagram.com/p/Bsn6VvfH-Bj/?utm_source=ig_share_sheet&igshid=3uksr4jsre8t
> 
> ...


Dope. Take me with you. Is that resort pow or backcountry?



F1EA said:


> Nope. Totally different, definitely close to the Fish (wide nose, short edge, tight sidecut radius, etc).
> Dump truck has the setback, but everything else is a little bit more regular "freeride board" kind of numbers.
> 
> Landlord and Dump Truck are "surfy" freeride boards. So they have that kind of Fishy idea but adapted into a board that will handle groomers, speed and steeps better... (less nose width, a bit longer sidecut, longer edge, more camber, stiffer, etc).


So you wouldn't agree with Angry Snow about the DT being a big, stiff plank?


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## Craig64 (Jul 16, 2015)

F1EA said:


> Nope. Totally different, definitely close to the Fish (wide nose, short edge, tight sidecut radius, etc).
> Dump truck has the setback, but everything else is a little bit more regular "freeride board" kind of numbers.
> 
> Landlord and Dump Truck are "surfy" freeride boards. So they have that kind of Fishy idea but adapted into a board that will handle groomers, speed and steeps better... (less nose width, a bit longer sidecut, longer edge, more camber, stiffer, etc).


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## Craig64 (Jul 16, 2015)

Giddyhitch said:


> Dope. Take me with you. Is that resort pow or backcountry?
> 
> 
> 
> So you wouldn't agree with Angry Snow about the DT being a big, stiff plank?


I think he was riding a 163 not sure on his weight but his review is soooooo wrong. The DT absolutely rips as a freeride board. 

https://www.snowboardingforum.com/burton/249738-18-burton-dump-truck.html


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

Craig51 said:


> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vnZVQc_54oU


Oh found a review. Nice. Haha all hail the interwebs.

Yeah, he basically says the same I inferred from the numbers on the DC.

Wide nose, setback, Softer flex, short edge, tight sidecut make it ride kind of like a Fish. With the camber adding some stability...

At the end he mentioned the drawbacks on groomers, speed, freeride etc and that's basically where the Dump Truck shines. The DT rips. Of you look at the numbers I mentioned above, it's kind of explained there... longer sidecut radius, longer edge, less taper, more camber, stiffer etc.

Also yea like you said, the DT is far from a plank. I rode a 154 DT, plus feedback from a few more people, and for sure the board is a ripper. Not a plank at all.


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

Giddyhitch said:


> Dope. Take me with you. Is that resort pow or backcountry?
> 
> So you wouldn't agree with Angry Snow about the DT being a big, stiff plank?


Haha that's actually Whistler.

And yup, the DT is not a big stiff plank. Far from it. Unless you're looking for a really playful board. 

If your main interest is Whistler and BC backcountry, then I wouldn't really say get a Fish or a 420. I would go with something more 'dependable'... some agile freeride/powder board like the Dump Truck  or Kazu, or Pick your Line, Deep Thinker, etc. So basically yeah, a bit less taper, more edge, longer sidecut, more camber etc.

To a Japan trip is a whole different thing. You need a lot more versatility in Whistler... lots of chop, tight trees, steeps, fast groomers, tracked out groomers, powder, etc etc. But for a Japan or powder trip, a Fish or similar is awesome; especially if you have something more dependable as well and are planning the trip around hitting powder....

It all depends what you like and want.


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## Giddyhitch (Nov 10, 2018)

Just to clarify, this board is unlikely to see any groomers. I have a Mountain Twin for resort days and bad backcountry days. 

I’m kinda surprised by your comments about the Fish in BC backcountry. I absolutely loved it on my cat day in the trees and above, except for the icy spots. Would have been amazing for heli at alpine level too, I suspect. The Mod Fish just wasn’t as fun there. I talked to Whistler-Blackcomb Heli today and they said that the Fish was their most popular rental as well, over the Dump Truck and Panhandler.


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## Giddyhitch (Nov 10, 2018)

And speaking of the PYL, the Hybrid in the 19/20 Yes catalogue is being advertised as the result of a PYL and 420 making a baby. Very intriguing.


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

Giddyhitch said:


> Just to clarify, this board is unlikely to see any groomers. I have a Mountain Twin for resort days and bad backcountry days.
> 
> I’m kinda surprised by your comments about the Fish in BC backcountry. I absolutely loved it on my cat day in the trees and above, except for the icy spots. Would have been amazing for heli at alpine level too, I suspect. The Mod Fish just wasn’t as fun there. I talked to Whistler-Blackcomb Heli today and they said that the Fish was their most popular rental as well, over the Dump Truck and Panhandler.


Ahhhh if no groomers, then get a Fish.

Of course it's a different scenario, because Whistler and Backcountry are very different from heli or cat boarding. Heli or cat, you pay top $ and somebody takes you to a guaranteed pow stash. True backountry or general whistler resort riding, you go and hike or ride the mountain and never know what you're gonna get. So if you mean cat or Heli, then go with a Fish and forget about anything else.

Also, the Fish has been in the line for like over 20yrs. Dump Truck and PH were only for 1 yr and no more after that.


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## Craig64 (Jul 16, 2015)

Bataleon Surfer Ltd.


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## Myoko (Dec 11, 2018)

I'm with Akcom. I have been spending months all over Japan for 10 years every season and have a Yes The Greats 159 and the Rossignol Sushi 145. 

Unless you are doing big hikes on open faces you don't need a big board and small, fat boards are just so much more fun and WAY easier to ride also in the trees. I have no problem holding an edge carving at pace on the Sushi either, although it is a wide board so your transitions are not as fast as some. Having said that, it has amazing float which is what you want to get back on the runs after going through the trees. The Jones Storm Chaser looks cool and certainly the Gentemstick is a popular board in Japan.


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

Craig51 said:


> Bataleon Surfer Ltd.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eaPWpD0bywQ


Nice video!! Finally a recent video from them I actually clicked 'Like'.

Although to be honest, judgung by that video alone, I would choose the TRice instead. 

Still... i'd much rather be on a Fish, Gentem, etc on those conditions.


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## Craig64 (Jul 16, 2015)

Not a big fan of this guy but he's away with Kevin and TJ from Snowboard Procamp. Epic conditions.

https://youtu.be/dyo5bNPr_rM


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## Decade190 (Feb 26, 2012)

alpengott said:


> Nivek said:
> 
> 
> > alpengott said:
> ...


 @Nivek 

Dammmm. How much did you get the mystery fish for and how??? 
Ridden it??



Myoko said:


> I'm with Akcom. I have been spending months all over Japan for 10 years every season and have a Yes The Greats 159 and the Rossignol Sushi 145.
> 
> Unless you are doing big hikes on open faces you don't need a big board and small, fat boards are just so much more fun and WAY easier to ride also in the trees. I have no problem holding an edge carving at pace on the Sushi either, although it is a wide board so your transitions are not as fast as some. Having said that, it has amazing float which is what you want to get back on the runs after going through the trees. The Jones Storm Chaser looks cool and certainly the Gentemstick is a popular board in Japan.


Don’t you find the sushi lacking in tail for pop? And loses and edge on hard pack very easily. You ridden a fish for comparison?

Yes greats though sounds like a sweeeet ride.


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## Myoko (Dec 11, 2018)

I only ride the Soochi in powder (its 60cm of fresh outside my window now) so I have no idea about pop with it to be honest. It also has no tail given the binding set back which is one of the big reasons I bought it so I can only imagine it would be totally useless in that department. I am not the most amazing rider holding an edge but I have spent many days/weeks doing just that, natural and switch over the years and can hold my own. To me it holds an edge better than my "the Greats' by memory (about to go on first ride of season). Shorter, seems to dig in better and be easier to put y weight on. I am looking forward to riding a friend's Custom X in the next few weeks and I'm excited to see how a traditional camber board holds an edge as it's been years since I have ridden one but I remember how solid underfoot they are.


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## Myoko (Dec 11, 2018)

Quick update on Soochi. Had the bindings set all way back for the first time as an experiment as we had 60cm overnight and I didn't really like it. Lacked some control, felt bouncy easily and was terrible on the groomers edgewise (all nose, no tail). Bottom line, these boards do not need to to have their bindings set all the way back in order to work well and I won't be doing that again as it felt like a different board,


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## RIDERUK (Oct 22, 2014)

alpengott said:


> Buy a offshore snow shapes snurf up directly in their factory near niseko ?
> 
> Best I ever had and I got a lot
> 
> ...


how is the black ops?
beat a fish?


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## OneManArmy (Nov 11, 2017)

Myoko said:


> Quick update on Soochi. Had the bindings set all way back for the first time as an experiment as we had 60cm overnight and I didn't really like it. Lacked some control, felt bouncy easily and was terrible on the groomers edgewise (all nose, no tail). Bottom line, these boards do not need to to have their bindings set all the way back in order to work well and I won't be doing that again as it felt like a different board,


I did the same thing with my stungun. Its still set pretty far back but i moved the rear and front up. Wider stance like my daily board. Road 2 days in 3 feet plus and didnt end up sore. Had a freaking blast once i moved stance back up about an inch.


I did the sa.e thing with my stun gun


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## DovydasVilkelis (Jan 31, 2019)

Hey guys, and what about a dedicated pow board (with coming Japan trip in mind) for the big guy with even bigger feet? I am 87-89 kg (192-196 lbs) without a gear with 47-48 size feet (31 mondo, 13 US). I am looking at the boards with waist wider than 270 mm. Read a lot of topics, reviews, etc. and I made a list for myself. What do you think? I am somewhere between intermediate and advanced level.

Korua Dart 160x27.8
Jones Storm Chaser 157x27.5
Nitro POW 154x28 (too short?)
Ampler Aloha Vibes 154x28 (too short?)
Powfinder Morris Signature 157x27
K2 Cool Bean 150x28.7 (too short?)

I already own Burton Flight Attendant 162W, so have a all mountain board for various conditions and looking a board specifically for pow.

Thanks!


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## smellysell (Oct 29, 2018)

The snowboard community makes me feel like even more of an ogre than I always have. Never thought of sub - 200 lbs as large haha. 13s though I would say qualify, how sure are you they aren't too big? 

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


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## DovydasVilkelis (Jan 31, 2019)

smellysell said:


> The snowboard community makes me feel like even more of an ogre than I always have. Never thought of sub - 200 lbs as large haha. 13s though I would say qualify, how sure are you they aren't too big?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


I guess I was referring more to my feet size


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## Giddyhitch (Nov 10, 2018)

benjinyc said:


> Japan's The House of Powder
> 
> 
> 
> ...





F1EA said:


> Yeah that looks good too. Of course, you would have to go in a bit blind as Im not sure many people have been on that one but... the numbers look nice.





F1EA said:


> Nope. Totally different, definitely close to the Fish (wide nose, short edge, tight sidecut radius, etc).





Giddyhitch said:


> And just to clarify, my immediate need is for a Whistler and northern BC backcountry board with Japan hopefully in a couple of years. This is a pure powder board purchase that will not see any groomers, ice (hopefully), and only the occasional cat track.


Just to close the loop on my thread intrusion, I pulled the trigger on a DC HR (referred to as THOP earlier in this thread) on sale as my pure powder board and Burton Fish impersonator for BC and Japan. The Fish is still the object of my affection but I'm tired of the eBay and forum searches (and praying for the rumored last season release), and the numbers on the HR come closest to the Fish according to my spreadsheet. Ironically, I completely blacked out on the fact that the HR was discussed in this thread multiple times and specifically F1EA's favorable comparison to the Fish, until I came back here to deliver my update.


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## OneManArmy (Nov 11, 2017)

smellysell said:


> The snowboard community makes me feel like even more of an ogre than I always have. Never thought of sub - 200 lbs as large haha. 13s though I would say qualify, how sure are you they aren't too big?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


Dude I'm pushing 240.


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## Craig64 (Jul 16, 2015)

Giddyhitch said:


> Just to close the loop on my thread intrusion, I pulled the trigger on a DC HR (referred to as THOP earlier in this thread) on sale as my pure powder board and Burton Fish impersonator for BC and Japan. The Fish is still the object of my affection but I'm tired of the eBay and forum searches (and praying for the rumored last season release), and the numbers on the HR come closest to the Fish according to my spreadsheet. Ironically, I completely blacked out on the fact that the HR was discussed in this thread multiple times and specifically F1EA's favorable comparison to the Fish, until I came back here to deliver my update.


The DC HOP is a pretty sic' looking board. I can't speak highly enough about the performance of the fish in powder but this board will rip in powder as well.


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

Giddyhitch said:


> Just to close the loop on my thread intrusion, I pulled the trigger on a DC HR (referred to as THOP earlier in this thread) on sale as my pure powder board and Burton Fish impersonator for BC and Japan. The Fish is still the object of my affection but I'm tired of the eBay and forum searches (and praying for the rumored last season release), and the numbers on the HR come closest to the Fish according to my spreadsheet. Ironically, I completely blacked out on the fact that the HR was discussed in this thread multiple times and specifically F1EA's favorable comparison to the Fish, until I came back here to deliver my update.



Can't go wrong with that one. Though most boards are different, I don't think you'll be missing anything truly crucial by not getting a Fish. 7up vs Sprite.......


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## Giddyhitch (Nov 10, 2018)

Craig51 said:


> The DC HOP is a pretty sic' looking board. I can't speak highly enough about the performance of the fish in powder but this board will rip in powder as well.


Preaching to the choir, brother. Had a Fish on a heli day recently and it just reinforced my love. So good for quick surfy flow turns and just fun all around. Even jumped better than I remembered. 



F1EA said:


> Can't go wrong with that one. Though most boards are different, I don't think you'll be missing anything truly crucial by not getting a Fish. 7up vs Sprite.......


Appreciate the vote of confidence and thanks for answering so many of my questions about board shapes and specs - it really helped my decision making process. Finally, it’s a good thing you didn’t say Coke vs Pepsi because those are fighting words in this house!


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## frankyfc (Aug 11, 2017)

akcom said:


> For what it's worth, I'm going to Japan this year and decided to bring a 145cm rossignol sushi for tight tree runs and a 159 bataleon surfer for everything else.


How were they? Prefer the surfer or the sushi? looking at the surfer myself


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## Myoko (Dec 11, 2018)

I have the Sushi and the new 156cm YES The Greats. I'm 180cm and 83kg and both are perfect for me. I spend 2 months in Japan every year and love trees. Probably many boards you would be happy with but my suggestion is to get something less than 150cm if you want to have fun in the trees. The difference is like riding a Mal or a short board in surfing and its a lot harder work. Sushi has a LOT of float, no problem chest deep and it can hold an edge, bit big/wide if anything in my view but that's being picky. Jones Storm Chaser looks beautiful.


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## frankyfc (Aug 11, 2017)

Myoko said:


> I have the Sushi and the new 156cm YES The Greats. I'm 180cm and 83kg and both are perfect for me. I spend 2 months in Japan every year and love trees. Probably many boards you would be happy with but my suggestion is to get something less than 150cm if you want to have fun in the trees. The difference is like riding a Mal or a short board in surfing and its a lot harder work. Sushi has a LOT of float, no problem chest deep and it can hold an edge, bit big/wide if anything in my view but that's being picky. Jones Storm Chaser looks beautiful.


Tried to sushi. Turns on a dime. Ridiculously small tail means no pop (love a good jump into powder) and the edge hold on groomers is below par. Agree in powder though it’s awesome. 

Tempted by the surfer as the tail will sink down so much in pow like the sushi but on hard pack it’s got much longer tail for pop.


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## Decade190 (Feb 26, 2012)

frankyfc said:


> How were they? Prefer the surfer or the sushi? looking at the surfer myself


@akcom ---- ??????


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