# the 2013 Burton Genesis ReFlex Bindings...



## Sassicaia

I have heard great things about these. I'm really looking forward to giving them a try. I haven't seen white.... Thought it only came in tourquois or black


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## kayin

those look sick! i'm surprised at how light bindings keep getting!


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## 509-pow

ya those bindings are sick. would deff switch my cartels for those. can u tell me what the mesh is on the highback? i was told what it was when looking at bindings but i forgot.


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## Leo

Loved these bindings the second I strapped into them... then I started actually riding... I WANT THESE AS MY NEXT PAIR BADLY!!!


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## jdang307

what makes them better than say, the cartels or malavitas?

I love the ratchets on the Raiden bindings (like butter, smoother than Burton) but did like the malavitas I had. I shouldn't have sold them.


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## 604al

After a few hours of riding them, here's my thoughts:
- the ankle strap is very comfortable, just like the malavitas, but feel more locked in.... which i think is a good feeling. I could never tolerate the cartel ones for longer than an hour. On a side note, the cartel ankle strap has changed for 2013, like a smaller react strap. 
- the toe strap holds just as good, if not better than the regular rubber gettagrips. I think removing the rubber strip in the middle cutout makes a difference, and I may cut the rubber strip out of my other gettagrip bindings, which could move if not ratcheted tight, despite being grippier than the foam on the genesis/diode. 
- the new highback WORKS... on my 2011 malavitas I prefer them with zero adjustment, my 2012 cobrasharks at f2 i think, and these at f3... the "suspension" piece and back piece are both soft and with my settings I could feel the highback even in a relaxed stance... which I liked. During heelside turns the response was there, and felt great even through bumps keeping the heelside edge... ZERO CALF BITE!!!!! the highback is secure and comfortable.
- the baseplate flexes less than my reflex malavitas... again I like this. 

My only concern with these bindings is the flimsy feeling of the highbacks, but everything else I LOVE... zero pressure points with a locked in feeling that was extremely comfortable.


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## Leo

jdang307 said:


> what makes them better than say, the cartels or malavitas?
> 
> I love the ratchets on the Raiden bindings (like butter, smoother than Burton) but did like the malavitas I had. I shouldn't have sold them.


The Genesis first of all is lighter than both the cartels and malavitas. The ankle strap is quite different from any of their other straps. It's very thin and completely wraps your ankle when locked in. It's a toss up for me between these straps and Burton's Asym straps. Although the Genesis ankle straps are more comfortable.

That's the major thing about these... it is superbly comfortable. It's like you don't have anything on your feet, yet you get all the support like you do. The highbacks seem flimsy, but Hoon said in his review that he accidentally stepped right on the highback and was convinced he broke something. Nothing broke, not even that Hammock thing.

The hammock contraption on the highback hugs the back of your boot. So you feel the support there even when you aren't flexing into the highback. However, the highback doesn't engage until you lean into it. 

It's a pretty flexy binding though so it's not going to be for the person looking for that aggressively responsive binding. I place it as an all-mountain freestyle binding with a bias towards freestyle.


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## jpchase

Thanks for the review, I might have to check these out for next season.


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## Raines

cant wait for mine


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## jdang307

Leo said:


> The Genesis first of all is lighter than both the cartels and malavitas. The ankle strap is quite different from any of their other straps. It's very thin and completely wraps your ankle when locked in. It's a toss up for me between these straps and Burton's Asym straps. Although the Genesis ankle straps are more comfortable.
> 
> That's the major thing about these... it is superbly comfortable. It's like you don't have anything on your feet, yet you get all the support like you do. The highbacks seem flimsy, but Hoon said in his review that he accidentally stepped right on the highback and was convinced he broke something. Nothing broke, not even that Hammock thing.
> 
> The hammock contraption on the highback hugs the back of your boot. So you feel the support there even when you aren't flexing into the highback. However, the highback doesn't engage until you lean into it.
> 
> It's a pretty flexy binding though so it's not going to be for the person looking for that aggressively responsive binding. I place it as an all-mountain freestyle binding with a bias towards freestyle.


Ahh I see. I need something a little more well rounded like the Cartels.


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## Leo

jdang307 said:


> Ahh I see. I need something a little more well rounded like the Cartels.


Well, you sold your Restricted Malavitas right? Your bad. :cheeky4:


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## Raines

so i keep my prophecys and choos between the malavitas and the genesis


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## Leo

Raines said:


> so i keep my prophecys and choos between the malavitas and the genesis


Genesis is a prophecy replacement so I say ditch the prophecy.


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## Sick-Pow

if i needed new bindings, I would get these....super sweet.


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## Raines

Leo said:


> Genesis is a prophecy replacement so I say ditch the prophecy.


same flex? 

prophecy is really cool

Are cartel signifantly stiffer than prophecy? i love the prophecy flex

thanks


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## Leo

Raines said:


> same flex?
> 
> prophecy is really cool
> 
> Are cartel signifantly stiffer than prophecy? i love the prophecy flex
> 
> thanks


I never rode the Prophecy so someone else will have to chime in. The cartel highbacks are certainly stiffer than the Genesis though.


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## jdang307

Leo said:


> Well, you sold your Restricted Malavitas right? Your bad. :cheeky4:


Well I wanted something less soft than the malavitas.


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## Volt

Those are sexy sexy.


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## Brushie25

Raines said:


> same flex?
> 
> prophecy is really cool
> 
> Are cartel signifantly stiffer than prophecy? i love the prophecy flex
> 
> thanks


when i asked the employees at one of the burton stores, they told me prophecys are stiffer. i think the genesis is going to be less responsive than the prophecy. this is only based on what I was told, not by my experience.


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## 604al

After a few more days on these, I have a few more things to add:
- the foam toe strap definitely molds to my boot better than the regular gettagrip toe strap, which would sometimes slip off if not positioned and tightened perfectly. 
- the ankle strap has now surpassed the malavita asym strap as my favourite ankle strap, as it's also pressure point free, but much more supportive. 
- the high back doesn't get snow stuck in it like I thought it might
- the micro flad seems to be improved upon, from previous gens as the adjustment block that contacts the heelcup widens at its end, unlike the 2010 exile, 2012 cobrashark and 2011 malavita in which the micro flad was one thin block
- weight savings are very noticeable, especially on the lift.


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## scotty100

Is the Genesis the replacement for the Prophecy then? No Prophecy in 2013?


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## Leo

scotty100 said:


> Is the Genesis the replacement for the Prophecy then? No Prophecy in 2013?


Yup and yup. :thumbsup:


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## scotty100

Hmm. That's thrown a spanner into my 2013 binding plans then... I just bought a Yes Great Beauties board with med flex and was looking to slap the Prophecy on it. From what I read, the Prophecy sat between the Cartel and Malavitas in terms of stiffness/responsiveness...with the Cartels being stiffest, then Prophecy then Malas. Will the Genesis be the same as the Prophecy in this regard?


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## Leo

scotty100 said:


> Hmm. That's thrown a spanner into my 2013 binding plans then... I just bought a Yes Great Beauties board with med flex and was looking to slap the Prophecy on it. From what I read, the Prophecy sat between the Cartel and Malavitas in terms of stiffness/responsiveness...with the Cartels being stiffest, then Prophecy then Malas. Will the Genesis be the same as the Prophecy in this regard?


Genesis is definitely softer than the Malavitas and Cartels. I haven't ridden the Prophecies, but I was under the impression that those bindings were softer as well.


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## dreampow

I will be getting some bindings for next season to go on my proto CT. These look good, but I want something on the stiffer side of all mountain freestyle.

I currently use 2011 cartels and like them a lot. I could go a little softer for sure for the freestyle side but want to keep some stiffness as I like to rail turns at pretty high speed and ride a lot of deep powder tree runs where I need control.

There are 2012 Malativas on sale at the moment and I want to know if the malativas have any significant upgrades for 2013?

Would the 2012 malativas be a good binding for what I want? 

Seems to me they would but I have no first hand experience with them.


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## Leo

dreampow said:


> I will be getting some bindings for next season to go on my proto CT. These look good, but I want something on the stiffer side of all mountain freestyle.
> 
> I currently use 2011 cartels and like them a lot. I could go a little softer for sure for the freestyle side but want to keep some stiffness as I like to rail turns at pretty high speed and ride a lot of deep powder tree runs where I need control.
> 
> There are 2012 Malativas on sale at the moment and I want to know if the malativas have any significant upgrades for 2013?
> 
> Would the 2012 malativas be a good binding for what I want?
> 
> Seems to me they would but I have no first hand experience with them.


No changes at all. I personally prefer the winged version of the Malavitas just because I think it's more comfortable haha.

Malavitas will only be slightly softer than the Cartels in the highbacks.


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## ShredLife

i predict many broken heelcups and highbacks for riders 170lbs+ on these bindings, just from looking at that first pic. just sayin'...



- a happy 2012 diode owner


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## Irahi

ShredLife said:


> - a happy 2012 diode owner


Have you had any durability problems with your diodes? I've broken more parts on mine than I can count :\


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## 604al

Leo said:


> No changes at all. I personally prefer the winged version of the Malavitas just because I think it's more comfortable haha.
> 
> Malavitas will only be slightly softer than the Cartels in the highbacks.


I think the baseplate has been changed in the 13 Malavitas and are like the Genesis ones... you can see coring in the heelcup for 2013. 

And the Malavita baseplate is DEFINITELY softer than the Cartel one... the Genesis baseplate also seems stiffer than the 2012 Malavita one.



ShredLife said:


> i predict many broken heelcups and highbacks for riders 170lbs+ on these bindings, just from looking at that first pic. just sayin'...
> 
> 
> 
> - a happy 2012 diode owner


I'm 190 pounds and about 10 days on the Genesis so far with no issues,and bailing is half my game. Only thing that seems sketchy is the flimsy highback, which I dont see how a heavier rider could break. I could see one possibly breaking if you somehow snagged your pant leg in-between the two highbacks and yanked hard, but with Burton's amazing customer service I dont see that as a concern.


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## ShredLife

the lowest lace loops on my boots have shredded up the inside of the ankle strap on my back foot a bit, but it doesn't really affect the function too much.... still pretty lame at shit can't hold up on a $$$$ pair of bindings...i may have them replaced in the off season.

the foam on the highback and footbed doesn''t hold up well either. its comfy but too lightweight to last.

so yea com to think of it mine are kinda falling apart too..... but they worked well for one season at least :dunno: and were very comfy and light

i am only 150 lbs.


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## ShredLife

604al said:


> I think the baseplate has been changed in the 13 Malavitas and are like the Genesis ones... you can see coring in the heelcup for 2013.
> 
> And the Malavita baseplate is DEFINITELY softer than the Cartel one... the Genesis baseplate also seems stiffer than the 2012 Malavita one.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm 190 pounds and about 10 days on the Genesis so far with no issues,and bailing is half my game. Only thing that seems sketchy is the flimsy highback, which I dont see how a heavier rider could break. I could see one possibly breaking if you somehow snagged your pant leg in-between the two highbacks and yanked hard, but with Burton's amazing customer service I dont see that as a concern.


do you hit 40 ft jumps? or drop 30 ft cliffs? not to sound dickish (cuz that kinda does... stAN DARSH! ) but at 190 there are alot of bindings you could break doing shit like that.... and yea those heelcups are seriously cored out. super cereal. jus sayin


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## 604al

ShredLife said:


> do you hit 40 ft jumps? or drop 30 ft cliffs? not to sound dickish (cuz that kinda does... stAN DARSH! ) but at 190 there are alot of bindings you could break doing shit like that.... and yea those heelcups are seriously cored out. super cereal. jus sayin


Nope, as I got them late in the season, most days were spent in the park on small-medium features and max 20 foot jumps. No offense taken.


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## Leo

604al said:


> I think the baseplate has been changed in the 13 Malavitas and are like the Genesis ones... you can see coring in the heelcup for 2013.
> 
> And the Malavita baseplate is DEFINITELY softer than the Cartel one... the Genesis baseplate also seems stiffer than the 2012 Malavita one.


I just grabbed the 2013 catalog. You're right, the Malavita Baseplate did change. It's no longer the park blend baseplate for 2013. It is the same 30% glass filled nylon as the 2013 Cartels.

I honestly don't think the 2012 Malavitas are THAT much softer than the 2012 Cartels. But then again, I didn't get to do any significant riding with either as this was at a demo day.

The flex difference is even less noticeable between the Winged version and the Cartel to me.


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## scotty100

Leo - do you have a link to the new Burton 2013 catalog online? thanks...


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## dreampow

604al said:


> I think removing the rubber strip in the middle cutout makes a difference, and I may cut the rubber strip out of my other gettagrip bindings,


Did you try this?

Seems like it would work to me, that middle strip gets in the way of the cap from hugging the toe of the boot, which could be why they slip if not just right.

I may cut it on my 2011 cartels, but would be nice to hear from someone who has done so and felt an improvement / no problems afterwards.

Hmmm, it seems from what people are saying the 2012 malativas are a bit to significantly softer. I may just stay with the cartels and get the 2013s.

Anyone have experience with the 2013 cartels? 

New tech? changes in flex? What does it say in your catalog Leo?


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## Leo

scotty100 said:


> Leo - do you have a link to the new Burton 2013 catalog online? thanks...


No I don't... I work for snowboards.net so that's how I have access to it. I'm actually listing them now. Looks like 3 of them went live. You can keep track of them here:

Burton Bindings


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## 604al

dreampow said:


> Did you try this?
> 
> Seems like it would work to me, that middle strip gets in the way of the cap from hugging the toe of the boot, which could be why they slip if not just right.
> 
> I may cut it on my 2011 cartels, but would be nice to hear from someone who has done so and felt an improvement / no problems afterwards.
> 
> Hmmm, it seems from what people are saying the 2012 malativas are a bit to significantly softer. I may just stay with the cartels and get the 2013s.
> 
> Anyone have experience with the 2013 cartels?
> 
> New tech? changes in flex? What does it say in your catalog Leo?


I cut it, moved the strap to the furthest back positions and maxed out the lengths at the same time and it worked for me, but i'm not sure which one (or all) actually solved the slipping. It definitely wont cause any long term issues by cutting the rubber middle... it's just a little difficult to do it cleanly so as to make it look like it wasn't cut in the first place.


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## Sassicaia

amazing burton rated these as a 7 for response when the diode is an 8. Its considered to in the line of their "stiff" bindings when the feedback from riders has been that its more of an all mountain leaning towards freestyle...unless im miss interpreting the reviews from riders.


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## Nito

Leo said:


> Genesis is a prophecy replacement so I say ditch the prophecy.


Since the Genesis is replacing the Prophecy, besides the highback what else is different?


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## Nito

Sassicaia said:


> amazing burton rated these as a 7 for response when the diode is an 8. Its considered to in the line of their "stiff" bindings when the feedback from riders has been that its more of an all mountain leaning towards freestyle...unless im miss interpreting the reviews from riders.


Don't go by Burton's rating, the Genesis is softer based on what I saw on You Tube (base and highback).


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## jchaison

To anyone that has actually ridden these...would you recommend them to someone who is an advanced rider who doesn't ride park, just groomers, glades and powder? I have really stiff boots (Ride Insano) and just got a moderately stiff deck (NS Cobra) and not sure how these will mesh (the highback seems REALLY flexible and soft). I bought these and the Union SL and definitely not a fan of hte SL. After reading a bit, I'm wondering if I should go with Cartels or Malavitas instead for some more responsive/stiff bindings.


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## Supra

since you've bought them already, just ride them and see for yourself. You're an advanced rider, right? I don't understand why you would base your binding keep/sell decision on what a bunch of internet strangers tell you


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## jchaison

Just asking for feedback from people who have ridden it before...just like those who would look for reviews/feedback before buying a car or something. I am an advanced rider but haven't ridden a wide array of gear (I had a set of Clickers I learned on and then a set of traditional bindings from Atomic that are stiffer than the Genesis). This is my first setup where I'm buying everything I "choose" as opposed to what sort of fits and is on sale at the end of the season. These intrigued me and I grabbed a pair after reading Burton's party line on them...now after reading some more it sounds like they aren't a good fit. I'd rather return them "unused" and get a set of Vitas or Cartels if they are going to be better for me. The $50-75 price difference isn't a huge deal (when spending ~$1000 on my first setup in 6 years)...I just want the binding that suits my needs.

You've ridden them (from my post in the other thread)...do you think they will be too soft for my style of riding?


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## Supra

The honest truth is no one can really say. The trump card here is personal preference. Stiff boots plus stiff board does not automatically equal diodes. 
Sure, if you put the absolute softest bindings on the stiffest board, the binders will be under powered, but in this situation, I think it's splitting hairs.
In my case, I like most bindings if they can hold my foot tightly and reasonably comfortably. I just adjust to the rest of the variables.
Now, I tried the 2013 cartels and they were 'normal', same with the malavitas. Nothing worth upgrading over my 2012's. then I got on the genesis. I wasn't interested since I found them to be too expensive, especially when the cartels do a perfect job and since reflex came out, are pretty amazing. Well, the bottom line is I couldn't give them back lol. Like has been written already in this thread, they feel invisible, but give you all the support you need. they really felt like an entirely new level of tech. i shredded all day in them and didn't feel like they were too soft. I even tried to put the straps on my 2012 cartels to see if that was the reason for them feeling so good, but it wasn't just the straps, it was the whole package.
See, nowadays, most of the burton bindings are really all mountain - they can be used for anything. Buying malavitas because you do park over cartels, is mostly due to the marketing dept, since both bindings are pretty similar.


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## BigmountainVMD

Nito said:


> Since the Genesis is replacing the Prophecy, besides the highback what else is different?


I'm interested in this as well. I find that there are too many similarities between the Genesis and the Malavitas to really figure out what to be interested in. I have Prophecys, but I'm not convinced the Genesis highback will hold up. I could see a really cold day and a odd collision with a tree or a fall on a booter having devastating effects on a highback with movable plastic parts.

I was thinking about picking up some 'Vitas for my Proto, but it seems they are too similar to the Prophecy to necessitate the spending of cash.


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## Supra

Only similarity is the baseplate. They ride completely different.
I agree that the durability of the highback is a question mark, but I was assured by B that it was really strong. Mine should arrive next week so we'll see when I start riding them.
If your prophecy are still fine just keep riding them. You're only losing out on the genesis highback really, if you can call it losing out.
Or, sell the prophecy now, while everybody still remember them


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## BigmountainVMD

Yeah, I'll wait a year for the new highback to get truly tested. Thing is, I switch the bindings between my Proto and T. Rice and I think the Genesis would be too flexible.


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## Sassicaia

I had a chance to ride these bindings on two different boards for a few days now. I think a 7 out if 10 for response is accurate. Jut my two cents. I personally really like them an they will stay on one of my boards.


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