# What to Pack for Winter Day Hikes



## Ghost_Rider_X

Now that the snow is starting to fall here in New England, I'm doing more winter hiking exploring the backcountry possibilities. I'm a relative new comer when it comes to winter hiking, and I'm looking for ideas as to what to carry in case of an emergency. Especially in regards to an emergency shelter capable of withstanding the harsh conditions of winter. Is there something more advanced then the tarp or tube tent I use for normal day hikes? Ideally I would like a nice 4 season tent, but it's really not practical for day hikes. That's the biggest concern I have with my gear. Other than that I think I'm pretty good. 

Day Hike Pack Includes (+/- depending on how long and where the hike is)

Extra Down Jacket
Extra Base Top/Bottoms
Extra Socks
Extra Gloves/Hat/Etc.
Extra Water
Extra Food
Knife
Multi-tool
Compass 
Map
Fire Starter and Materials
First Aid Kit
Shovel
Cord
Flashlight/Headlamp
Sunglasses or Goggles
Space Blanket
Poncho
Plastic Bags
Wipes
Handwarmers
....and some sort of emergency shelter. This is where your help is needed.

Also my Gear:

Splitboard
Skins
Poles
Splitboard Crampons
Crampons
Helmet
Spare Parts


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## linvillegorge

Ummm... if we're talking about day hikes, why are we talking about tents? 

I don't know about you, but I'm not packing a tent for day hikes. Bring a space blanket or if you're talking about for splitboarding and there's enough snow to ride, learn how to make a snow shelter - better yet, do both.


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## Ghost_Rider_X

linvillegorge said:


> Ummm... if we're talking about day hikes, why are we talking about tents?
> 
> I don't know about you, but I'm not packing a tent for day hikes. Bring a space blanket or if you're talking about for splitboarding and there's enough snow to ride, learn how to make a snow shelter - better yet, do both.


I don't plan on packing a tent either. Its not practical at all, that's why I'm looking curious if there are better options than my typical space blanket or tarp that I normally carry.



Snowolf said:


> While it is good to be prepared, you also must be practical. Al the extra clothes you mention are going to be bulky and weigh you down. You really have to balance emergency preparedness with not killing yourself from packing too much. Even back packing for multi day, I do not bring all those extras clothes wise.


I don't always bring extra clothes, but for a long day hike I do. Just for laughs I threw my extra down layer, base layer, gloves, hat, and socks on the scale and they came in at 723 grams. At just over a pound and a half I'd rather be safe than sorry. Assuming I'm using my splitboard and poles and packing everything else my pack comes in at just over 16 pounds including 4 liters of water. I know I carry a lot, but it has all served me well and 16 pounds won't kill me.



Snowolf said:


> On shelter...
> 
> For day hiking, shelter is only needed in an emergency. Fire (if you are below timberline) is really all you need to spend a night out in reasonable comfort. A lean to is super easy to build if you are in the trees. Simply place a lot of cut pine boughs down on the ground for a soft, dry bed and build the lean to with branches covered thickly with pine boughs. Build you fire right in front of your lean to and if it is really cold, build a wall behind the fire with cut branches and small logs to reflect heat back into your lean to.
> 
> When I was stationed at Eielson AFB outside of Fairbanks, Alaska, I went out cross country skiing with friends and we over nighted in a lean to in -35F weather. We were very comfortable in our lean to and with the fire going, we kept it almost 70 degrees in our shelter. In Arctic Survival training, all were given in our packs was a knife, matches, rope and MRE rations. The rest we had to figure out. We spent 3 nights out in the -30 to -40 weather without anything. In reality, you don`t need a ton of stuff.
> 
> In snow, a snow cave is going to be far warmer than any tent anyway...:thumbsup:


I can handle that, but my only concern is high winds. I do a lot of hiking in the White Mountains of New Hampshire where intense storms can come in very quick. I trust my skills in the mountains, but I would hate to become stuck in a storm and find myself digging about a forrest trying to build a lean to. How does the lean to perform in high winds?


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## Brentslide

Ghost_Rider_X said:


> I don't plan on packing a tent either. Its not practical at all, that's why I'm looking curious if there are better options than my typical space blanket or tarp that I normally carry.
> 
> 
> 
> I don't always bring extra clothes, but for a long day hike I do. Just for laughs I threw my extra down layer, base layer, gloves, hat, and socks on the scale and they came in at 723 grams. At just over a pound and a half I'd rather be safe than sorry. Assuming I'm using my splitboard and poles and packing everything else my pack comes in at just over 16 pounds including 4 liters of water. I know I carry a lot, but it has all served me well and 16 pounds won't kill me.
> 
> 
> 
> I can handle that, but my only concern is high winds. I do a lot of hiking in the White Mountains of New Hampshire where intense storms can come in very quick. I trust my skills in the mountains, but I would hate to become stuck in a storm and find myself digging about a forrest trying to build a lean to. How does the lean to perform in high winds?


If your only concern is high winds then I suggest you utilize your shovel and dig a snow shelter! Warm and very wind proof.


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## AZred60

I'm surprised no one has mentioned the "ten essentials:" matches and lighter, extra food, water, first aid, extra warm clothes, map and compass, multi-tool, light, raingear or tarp, sunglasses and sunscreen. 

this is the list found in a lot of avalanche educational stuff. but even this seems like a lot to me. when i go out, i look at where i am going and think about the possibilities of getting stuck and go from there. think about having to get rescued. would it mean a few hours or a few days? i mean you don't need rain gear or a tarp if there is no chance of snow or rain, and you don't need a headlamp or a fire starter to duck the ropes for a lap. i try to go as light as possible so i can ride and hike with less which means your day can last longer and you get to ride more. usually in my day pack i have probe, shovel, water, sunglasses/goggles, board tool, knife, small first aid kit, trail mix (and possibly a sandwich), gps, map/compass, snow science kit, hiking hat/helmet, a few pieces of extra hardware, an extra fleece layer (i usually just have on my shell), camera, parachord. this would be a day hike only and i always keep more gear in the car for a possible overnight stay (usually parked at the end of sketchy fire roads) including a sleeping bag and more food/water. i would certainly advise against carrying a tent on a day hike, but a sleeping bag in the car isnt a bad idea. just evaluate your route. if you are new to the area then go with someone who knows it better so you will have a better idea. also learning to build a snow shelter is always a good idea. i have spent quite a few very comfortable nights in snow shelters that were built in the middle of nasty storms.


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## mojo maestro

Forget about any kind of water filter, they freeze and are useless. Iodine tabs.........way lighter. Back on topic.......bivy bag, sounds like what you are looking for.


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## snowvols

Build an igloo.

Grand Shelters ICEBOX - Igloo, winter camping tool

Maybe I looked over it but are you beeping?


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## linvillegorge

mojo maestro said:


> Forget about any kind of water filter, they freeze and are useless. Iodine tabs.........way lighter. Back on topic.......bivy bag, sounds like what you are looking for.


Fuck iodine. That shit is gross. Go with a Steripen instead.


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## jeri534

What Ive been carrying inside my pack on my day trips this season

- Shell Jacket
- Goggles
- Shovel, Probe
- Snack
- Compass, First Aid Kit, Emergency Blanket
- Gloves
- Hat
- Whistle
-Screwdriver


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## Ghost_Rider_X

Snowolf, you say you carry the following list:

- Shell Jacket
- Goggles
- Shovel, Probe
- Snack
- Compass, First Aid Kit, Emergency Blanket
- Gloves
- Hat
- Whistle
-Screwdriver

Cliff Bars
tinder box
topo map
cell phone
Avy transciever
personal locator beacon
survival knife
rope
hand gun

but earlier said:



Snowolf said:


> Seriously, for just day hiking or day splitting, you really do not need to pack all that crap.....


I don't see where I am packing "crap." Although you don't mention it, I'm sure you carry water. What do you recommend I cut out?

Extra Down Jacket
Extra Base Top/Bottoms
Extra Socks
Extra Gloves/Hat/Etc.
Extra Water
Extra Food
Knife
Multi-tool
Compass 
Map
Fire Starter and Materials
First Aid Kit
Shovel
Cord
Flashlight/Headlamp
Sunglasses or Goggles
Space Blanket
Poncho
Plastic Bags
Wipes
Handwarmers


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## linvillegorge

I love when people come onto forums asking advice and then start arguing when advice is given. :laugh:

I'm just givin' ya shit...

In all honesty, I'd ditch some of the extra clothes unless you make a habit of falling into creeks or something. I usually carry an extra lightweight fleece top and bottom along with a pair of glove liners and that's it.


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## jeri534

Ghost_Rider_X said:


> Snowolf, you say you carry the following list:
> 
> - Shell Jacket
> - Goggles
> - Shovel, Probe
> - Snack
> - Compass, First Aid Kit, Emergency Blanket
> - Gloves
> - Hat
> - Whistle
> -Screwdriver
> 
> Cliff Bars
> tinder box
> topo map
> cell phone
> Avy transciever
> personal locator beacon
> survival knife
> rope
> hand gun
> 
> but earlier said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't see where I am packing "crap." Although you don't mention it, I'm sure you carry water. What do you recommend I cut out?
> 
> Extra Down Jacket
> Extra Base Top/Bottoms
> Extra Socks
> Extra Gloves/Hat/Etc.
> Extra Water
> Extra Food
> Knife
> Multi-tool
> Compass
> Map
> Fire Starter and Materials
> First Aid Kit
> Shovel
> Cord
> Flashlight/Headlamp
> Sunglasses or Goggles
> Space Blanket
> Poncho
> Plastic Bags
> Wipes
> Handwarmers


You can cutout the extra down jacket, base layers, socks, and poncho.

Just dont see the need for them on a day trip....I dont pack much and Im already trying to pack lighter.


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## Ghost_Rider_X

linvillegorge said:


> I love when people come onto forums asking advice and then start arguing when advice is given. :laugh:
> 
> I'm just givin' ya shit...
> 
> In all honesty, I'd ditch some of the extra clothes unless you make a habit of falling into creeks or something. I usually carry an extra lightweight fleece top and bottom along with a pair of glove liners and that's it.


i'm open to advice...i just thought it was funny to hear i'm carrying too much crap when others seem to be carrying about the same. I don't feel like i pack a lot and i was actually pretty shocked when i went through my pack and listed out every item individually. 

i can lose the extra base top and bottoms. never really had a need for those they just kinda landed in my pack one day and i haven't taken them out. the down jacket is more of a down sweater...a very warm insulating layer that weighs nothing and packs into itself. poncho can go...no need for that in the winter.


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## freshy

Snowolf said:


> hand gun


lol you crazy Americans.


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## Ghost_Rider_X

freshy said:


> lol you crazy Americans.


I'd pack one too. No reason not too, unless of course the state you reside in makes it near impossible to get a permit  Therefore, throwing any chance of getting a non-resident permit in New Hampshire out the window.

thanks again rhode island :dunno:


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## snowvols

Makes sense to have one when the animals could maul you like in AK.


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## ShredLife

snowvols said:


> Makes sense to have one when the animals could maul you like in AK.


not if you're going to keep it in a backpack.


daypack for BC contents:

Compass
Map
Avy Test Kit
Shovel
Probe
Bladder of H2O
3 Cliff protien bars
3-5 Cliff gelshots
1 Extra longsleeve T baselayer (capilene or smartwool)
1 Extra pair of Smartwool socks
1 Extra Beanie
1 Extra pair of gloves
Mt. Hardwear Bivy sack (15oz.)
small chunk of foam pad
2 Bic Lighters
1 slow candle
LED Headlamp

that may look like alot on paper.... but its hardly anything in a pack and i can spend the night anywhere if i had to.

when you go to build shelter in the mts. to survive for the night - the key is staying DRY. if i am wearing GoreTex with a smartwool base layer plus an R1 fleece i can survive overnight in a snowcave just fine - as long as i am dry after i am done building it. building snowcaves and even slapping together a lean-to by yourself right before dark will get you sweaty as hell... so the extra baselayer stuff is to get into to stay DRY for the night once you are done building.

ditch the spaceblanket for a modern bivy or true emergency bivy... but something superlight, shaped in a tube like a sleeping bag, and rip-proof.

the small chunk of foam (like enough to cover the inside of the back panel of your pack - or a folded chunk that size if you have the room.) will give you something to sit on and insulate you from the snow. 

candle will offer a huge amount of warmth in a cave.


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## Ghost_Rider_X

ShredLife, that looks like a solid pack. I would definitely like to add a bivy sack to my pack for that just-in-case situation. do you carry any sort of knife or multitool? appears to be the only thing missing IMHO.


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## ElChupocabra

Snowolf said:


> Wipes....a quarter roll of TP is all that you need if ya gotta go....snow actually works well for that too...


WTF! I Totally disagree with you on this one. Maybe the snow is warmer in the PNW but I have a strong aversion to stuffing my ass crack with ice. TP is a must.

Also the gun is unnecessary. fun but unnecessary. All of the 'dangerous' animals are hibernating anyway (except the slednecks of course) 

I like having a minimalist down jacket or vest but if you can't squash into a small nalgene, leave it at home (also make sure it doesn't get wet) A grip of hand warmers can compensate for pretty much all the extra warm gear you nead (I carry three packs of two.)


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## ShredLife

Ghost_Rider_X said:


> ShredLife, that looks like a solid pack. I would definitely like to add a bivy sack to my pack for that just-in-case situation. do you carry any sort of knife or multitool? appears to be the only thing missing IMHO.


yea - just a lil CRKT flip. on overnighters i might bring a leatherman.


snow works great for wiping yer ass. river rocks too


pussy


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## linvillegorge

Snowolf said:


> A common misconception......
> 
> Cougars do not hibernate and bears do frequently come out of hibernation during the winter. I lived in Alaska for 4 years and have seen Grizz out and about in the dead of winter. *Besides, it's the two legged variety that are the real threat......*
> 
> 
> This guy would not have had to go through any of this if armed. These thugs would have almost certainly not even fucked with the guy in the first place had he pulled a gun. If that did'nt thwart them, then blowing their heads off would have.
> 
> Skier beaten and left for dead relives terror in court | Seattle News, Weather, Sports, Breaking News | KOMO News | News
> 
> I do a lot of solo back country travel and a lone person is very often the target for freaks like this. While the gun my not be "necessary" 99.9 percent of the time, that .01 time that it is, nothing else will do the trick. My Sig Sauer weighs in at just under 2 pounds and I will take that extra weight....:thumbsup:



THIS!!! I don't care where you are, the most dangerous critter you're likely to encounter in the backcountry is likely on two legs. That's why I carry a subcompact .45 auto. Any pistol that provides adequate protection against a bear is going to be mighty cumbersome at best. But a .45 is plenty for a person or cat and in CO those are the two biggest concerns, the second being of far less concern.


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## ElChupocabra

Snowolf said:


> A common misconception......
> 
> Cougars do not hibernate and bears do frequently come out of hibernation during the winter. I lived in Alaska for 4 years and have seen Grizz out and about in the dead of winter. Besides, it's the two legged variety that are the real threat......
> 
> 
> This guy would not have had to go through any of this if armed. These thugs would have almost certainly not even fucked with the guy in the first place had he pulled a gun. If that did'nt thwart them, then blowing their heads off would have.
> 
> Skier beaten and left for dead relives terror in court | Seattle News, Weather, Sports, Breaking News | KOMO News | News
> 
> I do a lot of solo back country travel and a lone person is very often the target for freaks like this. While the gun my not be "necessary" 99.9 percent of the time, that .01 time that it is, nothing else will do the trick. My Sig Sauer weighs in at just under 2 pounds and I will take that extra weight....:thumbsup:


Of the tens, nay hundreds of thousands of backcountry trips that have happened, one guy got attacked by a pair of psychopaths. Thats definitely a smaller than .01 percent of the time. Your experiencing the 'availability heuristic.' Because this one example is readily available in your memory you're thinking these events with higher frequency than they actually occur.


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## AZred60

I totally support carrying a gun in the bc. A few years back, I saw a bear on a christmas eve snow hike with my dog. Thankfully my dog was leashed otherwise it could have been a hairy sitch. I also routinely hike for early or late season turns, meaning hibernating animals could be out. If nothing else, the gun could even be used as a signaling device.

Going back to the main point of this thread, there is a really good thread on the splitboard forums about this here Splitboard.com Forums • View topic - Winter Backcountry Gear Lists


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## ElChupocabra

Snowolf said:


> So why does my carrying a firearm so bother you? If I want to carry it, it really does not affect you in the least....:dunno:
> 
> Besides, this is certainly not the only incident where someone has been assaulted, robbed etc.


Caring a gun doesn't bother me. Irrationality does. I was simply pointing out an incongruity in your logic. 
Backcountry snowboarding is dangerous. These dangers demand our full attention. Being attacked by an animal or human is not one of these dangers. 

I have seen many many bears of all kinds (mothers with cubs, grizzly bears,black bears, etc) not once have I felt like any were going to attack me. Most bears would rather run away than have a confrontation with a Human or full sized dog (though the grizzly did have an unsettling confidence around me and my fellow hikers.)

Worry yourself sick about being attacked if you want. I prefer to concern myself with more imminent threats and to have some perspective when I'm in the backcountry.

Back to the gear list, I usually bring a small roll of bailing wire for binding repair and duct tape to 'repair' everything else.


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## linvillegorge

ElChupocabra said:


> Caring a gun doesn't bother me. Irrationality does. I was simply pointing out an incongruity in your logic.
> Backcountry snowboarding is dangerous. These dangers demand our full attention. Being attacked by an animal or human is not one of these dangers.


How many backcountry riders/skiers are killed by avalanches every season? Now how many riders/skiers take to the backcountry every season? I bet the mortality rate is extremely low. 

So, by your logic, we're all dumb, irrational, and paranoid for seeking out avy training and carrying beacons, shovels, probes, etc.


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## linvillegorge

Snowolf said:


> In that incident, a transplanted problem bear from Glacier National Park. I was hiking in a alpine zone in dense vegitation and the nature of the attack was territorial. It pissed the bear off my being there. The thing charged from about 50 yards to my right. I dropped him with 3 shots from my Ruger Blackhawk 44 magnum. 2 shots into the left shoulder and one into the spine at the hump in the shoulders.


BTW, that is FUCKING BAD ASS!!!  Well done good sir!

That spine shot saved your ass.


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## AZred60

holy shit that picture...


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## killclimbz

There is a serious reporting issue on that wiki doc. Bears are listed as black or brown? Really? There isn't a difference as far as I know. It's either a black bear or not. Seems that they are using that as a reference to all bears in North America. There is a big difference from black bears and Grizzly bears. Pretty sure most of those deaths, including the gruesome one on page two is from a Grizzly. You bet that packing is not a bad idea, bear spray does seem to be effective. If you are not in Grizzly country, black bears are just not as huge of a threat. Sure there have been some deaths, I have also seen a person chase a mom and her cubs with a whip and run them up a tree. Respect black bears, yes, they can jack you up. They are just not mean like a grizzly is.


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## AZred60

Yeah if you have any knowledge of what your looking at on wikipedia, you'll found it to be a sketchy place for info (especially on climate change). I'm glad you made the distinction between bear types though. Here in AZ, we only have black bears (which for some reason I manage to stumble upon fairly frequently). And in northern AZ, there isn't much of a problem with boarder crossers. However, down around the boarder, and even near Tucson, I'm pretty careful about what I pack and where I camp.


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## killclimbz

Yeah I just wanted to get the point across that "bears" as a species are not always that dangerous. I run into black bears out here all the time. I've never thought about needing a gun. Most of the time they scat or pay little attention to me. I'm more worried about an encounter with my dogs than anything. 

Now people and the border crossing thing. That is a good reason to be armed imo...


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## ElChupocabra

Insulting?! I'm sorry if it came off that way.
Condescend: Of course! The web is for pretending one's own view points are superior to everyone else's. :cheeky4:

Let me be clear that I have no qualms about guns and am in full support of the 2nd (btw I'm from New Mexico, not canada so I know all about border hopper/drug violence)

I asked a biologist friend and I should say that I was wrong in saying that bear hibernate because _no_ bears hibernate, _ever._ Hibernation is a type of sleeping characterized by lowered body temp and metabolism. That being said black bear retreat to their den for most of the winter and may venture out periodically whereas Grizzlies will retreat to their dens all winter (unless the winter weather is shortened like in coastal areas.) So one might see a black bear but never a grizzly in the winter (or at least when the snow is good to ride.) I'm willing to bet that Moose kill more people than cougars and bears combined _in the winter_
This is reflected in the wikipedia list where I see _not a single_ bear attack in the winter.

I would never tell you to not wear your seatbelt. Driving is the most deadly activity we as americans do. WHO | The top 10 causes of death (except maybe eating fatty food)

The article provided with the nasty picture was not normal even for bear attacks: "The attack is vexing to wildlife officials." "I don't think it's a normal bear."

Preparing for disaster is based on a cost-benefit analysis. One cannot prepare for every disaster or accident that could conceivably happen so one must choose to prepare for a few. (this is where I'm going to be condescending again.) These should be the most imminent threats determined by statistical rates of injury and death to backcountry travelers. I'm betting (no longer have access to academic datbases) that these dangers are: Avalancehes, disorientation, injury, and gear failure. I think that being attacked is too far down the list to concern one's self with. 

BTW your story about shooting that bear is totally awesome  Did you keep its pelt or have it mounted or something? I would totally have it made into a coat and wear it everywhere so that I could tell everyone how I killed it.

Edit:
Just did the math (Read: counting) and it appears that there are more fatalities from avalanches than from bear attacks by a long shot. For example there were more avalanche fatalities last year than there were bear fatalities during the entire previous decade.


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## linvillegorge

I hope to God he kept that bear's pelt and made a rug out of it. I know I would. I would want to wipe my feet on my vanquished foe's face every time I walked through the door.


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## AZred60

You can't control everything, but you should prepare and control the things you have a way to control. I absolutely plan on buying and carrying a gun in the near future (especially in AZ, where now it's like the wild west and anyone can carry a concealed weapon). A gun can kill a moose too, not just a bear or a coug. Sure you might be more likely to die from injury, avys, or gear failure, but we also pack and learn things to lessen these chances. Same goes for animal attacks. The article that wolf posted and the part that you quoted about how that bear was "not a normal animal," are perfect examples of why it isn't a bad idea to carry a gun. There are "not normal" animals out there, just like there are people. And I'm not leaving my safety up to how normal an animal or person is feeling that day.


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## linvillegorge

Snowolf, sorry you had to learn the "3 S's" the hard way. Shoot, shovel, shut up. Anytime you can avoid contact with law enforcement, you are almost always well advised to do so.

Fuck cops. Of all kinds.


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## ElChupocabra

I think people here are starting to get my point but not quite. First I think we can all agree that carrying a gun is _circumstantial_. As 'wolf stated even he wouldn't take a gun into the wild on the east coast. Why? Because the _circumstances_ of hiking or traveling in the east coast make the risk of being attacked low enough that _benefit_ of carrying a firearm are less than _cost_ of carrying a firearm (price of firearm & ammo, weight while packing, opportunity cost of bringing a gun etc). so 'wolf does a cost-benefit analysis, decides the costs outweigh the benefits of caring a gun and leaves it at home. That is perfectly rational.
Now lets distinguish between the _circumstances_ which we are talking about because some generalizations shouldn't be made. There is obviously a difference in risk of being attacked in the backcountry between the winter and summer as evidenced by the wikipedia list. Whereas I would recommend taking measures to prevent bear attacks if one were camping in Glacier or Denali (in spring and summer), I am not recommending one pack heat when backcountry snowboarding (unless, of course, your doing some summer shredding in glacier or denali.) This is because the risk of an attack is significantly lower for reasons detailed in previous post (no grizzlies, fewer black bears, fewer humans) Now let me say that the chances of being attacked are much higher in the wild of the east coast during the spring & summer than anywhere in the backcountry during the winter.



AZred60 said:


> you should prepare and control the things you have a way to control.


I totally disagree and I bet you would too if you realized what you're saying. You could prepare for being hit by a meteor by wearing armor but you wouldn't because the chances of getting hit by a meteor are so low (Odds Of Your House Being Hit By A Meteor - 182,138,880,000,000 To 1) that the _benefi_t from the safety of the armor is smaller than the _cost_ of wearing it. (price of armor + discomfort from weight of armor + etc) This is a silly example but let me ask why are you not buying a bullet proof vest in addition to the gun to protect yourself from violence spillover from mexico? It's probably because BP vests are expensive, heavy, and unbearably hot in Arizona's temperatures which makes their _cost_ higher than the safety _benefits_ they give. I would argue that the _costs_ of carrying a firearm in these _circumstances_ (which are different from say hiking in glacier or hanging out in Mexico city) are larger than the _benefit_ of the safety created by the firearm. By all means buy a gun but don't decieve yourself into thinking that it's to protect yourself from drug smugglers. (unless you're a smuggler yourself )

That being said I should say that summer before last, a friend, swim, was in the middle of butt-fuck-nowhere in the desert to (ironically) shoot guns with another friend of mine. (just terrorizing the local wildlife and having some good ol' red neck fun) when a small plane flew by and dropped two crates attached to parachutes in the valley below us. They carefully deliberated what to do. It could have been millions of dollars of coke or heroine which swim would have had no reservations about flipping myself but it could have been a couple grand in shwag. We decided to leave it as the risk of being killed by a cartel was too high of a _cost_ for the _benefit_t of potentially getting rich. swim drove close enough to one crate to unload a couple clips into it; then went back. My buddy thought swim should inform the police but swim convinced him that this was bad idea since swim and friend probably weren't allowed to be shooting firearms where they were and because...


linvillegorge said:


> Fuck cops. Of all kinds.


Especially the DEA.

PS I can't find any sources saying there are Grizzlies in AZ: the last Arizona grizzly was killed in 1933. Or 1935. Or 1939.
PSS Most moose fatalities are from vehicular collisions so a gun won't help much with regard to those.


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