# Help me pick my Never Summer Board!



## snowklinger (Aug 30, 2011)

yo.

IMHO

1. Heritage hands down. Why? Every aspect of the board.

2. Not F1? If I was going to get an F1, I'd spend the extra cash and get the Raptor without even blinking an eye, but...

3. Not the Raptor? While it will certainly meet your needs, this seems to me a board I would pick up if planning an Alaska or Japan trip, but I see the Heritage as being more fun and playful, while the Raptor is just a serious board.

I'm sure someone on the internet will enjoy disagreeing, GL.

I also have NSitis.


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## lonerider (Apr 10, 2009)

I'm similar size (5'9" 145-150 lbs) and I've owned the Never Summer Evo 153, SL 155, Proto 154, and Summit 161. 

While a 159 is not terrible in trees and moguls (I ride a 161 for powder), nothing in your self description screams to me that you really need to go longer... so I would tentatively take out the Premier F1 for only that reason.

Never ridden the Raptor or Heritage so I am making educated guesses. I did read a review that actually said the Raptor was fun in the trees - although it is definitely stiffer. 

My suggestion is to just buy the Raptor 156 from Backcountry.com and ride it... if you don't like it ... return for a full refund. Nothing beats your own firsthand experiences and that is why I really like Backcountry.com and Dogfunk.com.

Some videos I found of people riding the Raptor - doesn't look that tough to initiate turns.

A guy on what I think is a 159 cm Raptor doing some mellow carves and switch riding on a blue run:






A girl (lady?) riding a 159 cm Raptor on Powder and Bumps


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## blazinden (Oct 10, 2010)

if your not totally dead set on one of those 3 boards, take a look at the 

154 NS Proto CT


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## lonerider (Apr 10, 2009)

blazinden said:


> if your not totally dead set on one of those 3 boards, take a look at the
> 
> 154 NS Proto CT


I own the 154 Proto and in my opinion... it isn't a very good true freeride board - it's fine if you like to play around on the slopes as a natural terrain park... and it acceptable on groomers/trees runs - but a true freeride board is going to be better in the steeps, in the trees, and going fast on groomers provided the rider isn't a novice rider (OP sounds plenty experienced).


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## hoodrat (Mar 22, 2012)

Just out of curiosity, have you considered the Cobra?


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## oldmate (Oct 24, 2011)

Why not a Cobra 158?

Edit: beaten to it


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## snowklinger (Aug 30, 2011)

The cobra is too soft and pow specific for those locations.

The proto does not fit his needs. ie zero freestyle.

The raptor has a trippy strung out rocker profile for pow, which is why I would not suggest it for those 3 locations.

The Heritage will own those locations no matter how much snow they get.


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## Fredlicious (Nov 29, 2012)

Hey guys, thanks for all the responses so far!

On the Raptor, it looks better and better the more I look at it. The Shayboarder review, in particular, jumped out at me because it mentions Mammoth, groomers, and tree riding, which is all right up my alley.

The Proto CT is too far on the freestyle side of things to really fit my style.

I had not given much consideration to the Cobra only because the reviews that I read were not as glowing as some of the other NS boards. That being said, I am not against learning something I wasn't expecting to. According to Never Summer's "selection chart," the Cobra is actually probably closer to the side that appeals to me.



snowklinger said:


> The cobra is too soft and pow specific for those locations.


What about the board makes it more of a powder board than the Heritage? The reviews on the TheGoodRide seem to imply the Cobra is better for groomers while the Heritage is built to float on powder. It's also worth noting that, while the snow in Big Bear is always thin and powder-less, Mammoth and Breck can (and have been) better in that regard, and I spend much more time in the latter locations than the former.


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## Edge (Sep 30, 2012)

Heritage hands down. Wish I could ride one myself, but I'm too light for it :c


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## lonerider (Apr 10, 2009)

Fredlicious said:


> Hey guys, thanks for all the responses so far!
> 
> On the Raptor, it looks better and better the more I look at it.
> 
> ...


you will find a lot of glowing reviews of the cobra on this forum... even some by people who have never ridden it! 

Heritage is a directional (update:corrected) twin, which the nose and tail are the same shape. Cobra has a directional shape with a more upturned nose and spade tail to life the nose and sink the tail to help keep you on top of deep powder.


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## snowklinger (Aug 30, 2011)

Fredlicious said:


> I had not given much consideration to the Cobra only because the reviews that I read were not as glowing as some of the other NS boards. That being said, I am not against learning something I wasn't expecting to. According to Never Summer's "selection chart," the Cobra is actually probably closer to the side that appeals to me.
> 
> 
> What about the board makes it more of a powder board than the Heritage? The reviews on the TheGoodRide seem to imply the Cobra is better for groomers while the Heritage is built to float on powder. It's also worth noting that, while the snow in Big Bear is always thin and powder-less, Mammoth and Breck can (and have been) better in that regard, and I spend much more time in the latter locations than the former.


The design of the Cobra is pow-specific, simple. That is not to say it wouldn't be great on groomers and trees. TBH it would be a better choice imo than the Raptor.

I still say Heritage hands down, but its just an opinion(probably because I like to be more freestyle myself). 

Pretty sure any of these boards would make you happy, keep that in mind. It's like stressing over a 2cm deck length...


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## Angler (Nov 28, 2010)

I know I am going to get flamed for this and I can't help myself. I have had the old Titan, SL and the heritage both camber and last years as well. Even though I like them very much, I bought this years Jones Mountain Twin and it blows the Never Summer boards away that you are talking about. If I were you that is the board I would buy. The board holds a wicked edge, turns on a dime great in pow and is very light on the feet. I am blown away by this board. Just my two cents, sorry NS fan boys.


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## hktrdr (Apr 3, 2012)

Fredlicious said:


> Hey guys, thanks for all the responses so far!
> 
> On the Raptor, it looks better and better the more I look at it. The Shayboarder review, in particular, jumped out at me because it mentions Mammoth, groomers, and tree riding, which is all right up my alley.
> 
> ...


Agree with what others have said - Heritage is the first choice for sure. Cobra not really that close, but might be a consideration for powder capability and playfulness - but a bit softer and less damp, sacrificing stability at speed and on the steeps.

You picked 2 terrible reviews. Shay is a nice person, but she does not do anything like the riding that you have in mind and her gear review are super shallow.
TheGoodRide can be hit and miss - recently more of the latter. Normally they quote the brochures pretty accurately but only ride the boards for a couple of runs on test days (and never seem to do any real powder riding). In case of the Heritage and Cobra they even messed up copying from the brochures - unlike what their review says ("The Cobra is made for those who spend most of their time on groomers" WTF!?) the Cobra is actually more powder focused than the Heritage.


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## Chef Jer (Apr 3, 2011)

Snowolf said:


> The Cobra is a board that I helped design for that specific purpose after test riding the Heritage. I have extensive reviews on this site as well as my own site of both of them. The Cobra actually IS very similar to the Heritage in it's handling and the Cobra really does not chatter at high speed on hard grounded significantly more than the Heritage.


I grabbed a Cobra in large part off of your reviews and sold the Heritage. Loved the heritage but wanted something a little more playful and a little better in powder. Cobra/heritage were too similar to keep both.


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## Angler (Nov 28, 2010)

Snowolf said:


> No one is going to flame you for giving an honest opinion, so you don't need to be defensive or end your post with a snide remark. Stick around a little longer and learn some about the people on the forum you are judging. A fanboy is someone who blindly follows a brand to the point of not acceptiing other brands have equally good products and for some niches outperform "their" brand. That is not the case here. The OP asked a specific question about specific boards produced from a specific company and people with that specific experience and knowledge have responded. As for your opinion, it is valid and the point of this forum is to help people explore all of their options and make their own decisions. In the snowboard coaching world we call this Guided Discovery.


My intention was not to be defensive or snide. I have been around for a long time as you can see from my join date. Have not felt the need to post before. Sorry if I offended you.


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## LoEdge (Jan 27, 2011)

I rode the 2013 heritage (162) yesterday and today at killington and personally didn't find one thing wrong with the board, one of the best i have ridden, ill be honest it was on the more difficult side to turn, have to pay attention.....im not to good at explaining things but if you have any specific questions, ill do my best to answer them.


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## LoEdge (Jan 27, 2011)

Snowolf said:


> Interesting observation. What specifically did you notice? Was it the turn initiation or maintaining the turn?


Im going to say turn initiation, for example, the first turn i ever made with the board took me and spun me around all the way to where i was in my switch position. What I'm trying to say is if you give it the slightest hint that you want to turn, its going to take you into that turn a lot easier(if that makes any sense). As for maintaining the turn, once you learn how much power to give for your turn(first run for me), its not a problem and can straiten out or carve with ease.


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## 03SVTCobra (Mar 31, 2012)

LoEdge said:


> I rode the 2013 heritage (162) yesterday and today at killington and personally didn't find one thing wrong with the board, one of the best i have ridden, ill be honest it was on the more difficult side to turn, have to pay attention.....im not to good at explaining things but if you have any specific questions, ill do my best to answer them.


Did you demo the heritage from some place near killington? If so What shop?


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## LoEdge (Jan 27, 2011)

03SVTCobra said:


> Did you demo the heritage from some place near killington? If so What shop?


Nah i own it .


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## Angler (Nov 28, 2010)

Snowolf said:


> None taken and if I took your "fan boy" comment the wrong way, my apologies; from this end, combined with your stated fear of being flamed, I interpreted it as kind of a parting shot...
> 
> Really, its all good and your alternative opinion is valued and if you noticed, I have reviewed and been a big advocate of other boards too (namely the Gnu Billy Goat). I actually more wanted to assure you that we are not classic "fanboys" and that no one is going to flame you for a quality opinion just because it is not Neversummer. My part time back country partner, Shredlife just picked up a Jones Hovercraft split board and we recently rode together; the thing is just sick....:thumbsup:


I think you did misinterpret my use of " fan boys". I was trying to be tongue and cheek with it. It does seem that there is a basis towards NS boards ( even though there is good reason as they make a great board) on the forum so I was trying to give some other options. Since I ride on the east and only get out west once a year the herritage has a tough time on hard pack going at high speeds. It gets very loose and has a hard time tracking well. In most conditions it's a great board. I love the edge to edge response, it's a turning machine! Also great in pow as well. With that being said when I view it as a all mountain board for the east coast it falls a bit short because of the way it rides on east coast hard pack. The rocker camber NS uses does not work as well out east as it does in the west because of the icy conditions at times. So there is my 2 cents... On another note have the hovercraft as well very sick board great in pow and surprisingly well on hard pack as well.


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## 03SVTCobra (Mar 31, 2012)

Isnt the heritage known for plowing through basically anything and one of the faster boards available? Your comments about it seem to be the opposite of a lot I have read.


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## 03SVTCobra (Mar 31, 2012)

Snowolf said:


> My personal experience with it is as you stated. Then again, I am a 35-40 MPH rider typically and not balls out bomber so I am not personally experiencing anything that causes me lack confidence in its controlability on hard pack. When it is actually ice, I slow down A LOT because at 48, I am not willing to take the chance of slamming hard at high speed on ice so there again, I am not feeling any issue.
> 
> I think pretty much everyone agrees that for flat out bombing on ice, a full camber deck is always going to be a little more sure footed. I know I tend to break ot the full camber stick when all I have to ride is icy groomers because off piste is a total shit show.


I'm not a balls out bomber either but I do get those days where If the conditions are right ill bomb a run or two! 35-40 is about where I'm at most of the time as well. Ice is a whole different story I slow down a lot as well. But I do more of my riding out west and have a shorter board for local riding ice crap anyway!


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## Angler (Nov 28, 2010)

Snowolf said:


> I think this may have a lot to do with the fairly deep sidecut of the board. My Billy Goat is even "worse" for that on hardpack. It is even more of a turning machine. This loosy goosy feeling is pretty native to the C2 style of rocker/camber and why many east coast riders prefer the solid feel of traditional camber. By the way what is the camber profile of the Jones board you suggested? Just curious if this could be a factor.


http://www.jonessnowboards.com/images/stories/mttech/mt1.jpg
You should check out the web site and look at the flagship as well. I have this board and it just rails on hard pack/ ice.
p.s. I am 55 so I understand not wanting to splatter on the trail


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## Mysticfalcon (Nov 27, 2007)

Ive gotta say a Heritage. No question at all. I consider the heritage to be the the AM board for someone who likes to charge. Its great in the moguls and the steeps and still likes to play off the natural features.


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## Fredlicious (Nov 29, 2012)

Hey guys, just wanted to thank you all for the advice and discussions. I'm settling more into the idea that the Heritage is going to be the right board for me. I'll probably pick it up around Christmas time for my next ride at Breck. I'll be sure to come back and report how it feels 

One last question: is it likely to make that much of a difference whether I go with the 155 vs the 158?


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## lonerider (Apr 10, 2009)

Fredlicious said:


> Hey guys, just wanted to thank you all for the advice and discussions. I'm settling more into the idea that the Heritage is going to be the right board for me. I'll probably pick it up around Christmas time for my next ride at Breck. I'll be sure to come back and report how it feels
> 
> One last question: is it likely to make that much of a difference whether I go with the 155 vs the 158?


It is a subtle but noticeble difference (2% difference). I suggest 155 (to other posters... hey look I suggested thr shorter length) although I bet someone else is going to recommend you go shorter "just cuz" that what they do.


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## fuzebox (Nov 18, 2011)

I own a Premier F1, and after demoing a Raptor I instantly regreted not getting it instead.


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## snowklinger (Aug 30, 2011)

lonerider said:


> It is a subtle but noticeble difference (2% difference). I suggest 155 (to other posters... hey look I suggested thr shorter length) although I bet someone else is going to recommend you go shorter "just cuz" that what they do.


That's because the 158 is CRAZY big for someone who is #140 lawlz. :thumbsup:


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## lonerider (Apr 10, 2009)

snowklinger said:


> That's because the 158 is CRAZY big for someone who is #140 lawlz. :thumbsup:


eh... I borrowed a 158cm board (1998 K2 Electra) my second season when I was 125 lbs. It only felt a little long turning it and it was actually more stable on jumps (I could only do a fs 180 back then).


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## snowklinger (Aug 30, 2011)

lonerider said:


> eh... I borrowed a 158cm board (1998 K2 Electra) my second season when I was 125 lbs. It only felt a little long turning it and it was actually more stable on jumps (I could only do a fs 180 back then).


You woulda loved this board at loveland today, it made all the ones next to it look like kids decks. I'm pretty sure I could have paddled into surf on it.


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## lonerider (Apr 10, 2009)

snowklinger said:


> You woulda loved this board at loveland today, it made all the ones next to it look like kids decks. I'm pretty sure I could have paddled into surf on it.


I recently was talking to a shop owner in CO about trying out some boards... The moment I told him I had some basic BX/race experience (even though I specifically said I didn't want to recreate that feel) he immediately ignored my requests for a 155 and said I should be riding a 163... Took me a while to even let him consider offering me something as "short" in his eyes as a 155 for 145 lbs.


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## Mysticfalcon (Nov 27, 2007)

155 definitely. I am 195lbs and I ride a 158 SL for my splitboard and a 161 SL for my groomer board. There is no reason for someone your side to ride a board longer than 155 for anything


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