# Crouching when snowboarding on powder?



## speedjason (May 2, 2013)

Idk about crouching but I do shift weight back a little.


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

Do you mean crouching = bending knees or
crouching = bending hip, upper body leaning forward?


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## poser (Mar 7, 2018)

In my mind, there’s no one kind of powder riding. The type of powder, be it heavy or light vs. the steepness, the base depth and what kind of terrain is under the powder as well as consistent blanket vs wind loaded etc, are all factors that are adjusted to. 

With that in mind, “steep and wild” riding tends to require a degree of “crouching”, though this is more of an advanced technique. Keeping the back more upright is sound advice for beginners and intermediates, though, at a certain point, as long the rider is in balance, I see no harm with some degree of”crouching” or bending forward so long as the spine is erect and the hips are proportionally counterbalanced, but I’m not sure that applies here.


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## bighuyou (Mar 25, 2019)

neni said:


> Do you mean crouching = bending knees or
> crouching = bending hip, upper body leaning forward?


 I mean bending bending butt and waist and upper body leaning forward. I do this when going straight down on a uneven traverse trail too. i think i bend my butt and lean forward as soon as i think i could easily loose balance.


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## bighuyou (Mar 25, 2019)

poser said:


> In my mind, there’s no one kind of powder riding. The type of powder, be it heavy or light vs. the steepness, the base depth and what kind of terrain is under the powder as well as consistent blanket vs wind loaded etc, are all factors that are adjusted to.
> 
> With that in mind, “steep and wild” riding tends to require a degree of “crouching”, though this is more of an advanced technique. Keeping the back more upright is sound advice for beginners and intermediates, though, at a certain point, as long the rider is in balance, I see no harm with some degree of”crouching” or bending forward so long as the spine is erect and the hips are proportionally counterbalanced, but I’m not sure that applies here.


 Thanks a lot for the input. Do u mean wben the slope gets harder, it is natural that there is a curve from head to butt instead of being really straight?


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## Rip154 (Sep 23, 2017)

I think you'd have to draw it, this sounds way ski instructorian. But if you look at videos of snowboarding, surfing or skateboarding and find some of the same movements, it's fine.


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## poser (Mar 7, 2018)

bighuyou said:


> Thanks a lot for the input. Do u mean wben the slope gets harder, it is natural that there is a curve from head to butt instead of being really straight?




I don’t think the spine should be rounded, however, I think that sticking your butt out and having your chest closer to your knees can be an intuitive position that allows the body to absorb big hits and inconsistencies in the terrain and lots of latitude to shift your balance to recover from these same hits and inconsistencies. I wouldn’t teach a beginner to ride like that, but it has its place. 

Now, the romantic idea of surfing a deep powder field like you might encounter cat skiing is more of a relax your upper body and lean on your back leg.


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

bighuyou said:


> I mean bending bending butt and waist and upper body leaning forward. I do this when going straight down on a uneven traverse trail too. i think i bend my butt and lean forward as soon as i think i could easily loose balance.


Right. I do this (bad habit) when I'm not low enough in knees.

When charging groomers, it's easy (automatically) to ride low. But in pow, one often switches to yay-cruising-leisure mode and forgets the knee bent, or, if the board doesn't float well, is hanging in the backseat, or simply gets tired. But bent knees are a major prerequisite for quick, turns. Since as your body isn't ready to do a quick turn now, you try to force your weight over the edge by bending upper body at hip. That's my take of it (cos I monitor it at me, especially if I'm tired). 

Try to concentrate on you knee bend next time, deliberately riding low, and see if it improves.


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## bighuyou (Mar 25, 2019)

neni said:


> Right. I do this (bad habit) when I'm not low enough in knees.
> 
> When charging groomers, it's easy (automatically) to ride low. But in pow, one often switches to yay-cruising-leisure mode and forgets the knee bent, or, if the board doesn't float well, is hanging in the backseat, or simply gets tired. But bent knees are a major prerequisite for quick, turns. Since as your body isn't ready to do a quick turn now, you try to force your weight over the edge by bending upper body at hip. That's my take of it (cos I monitor it at me, especially if I'm tired).
> 
> Try to concentrate on you knee bend next time, deliberately riding low, and see if it improves.


The thing is, I know the proper position should be 1.jpg
I feel on the not so steep slope of powder, we do not need to edge that much, but we need to bend knees to have good balance because powder is more uneven compared to groomed runs. In that case, if we do not edge much but still kept knees bent, the position can easily become 2.jpg.......So yeah not sure how people think about 2.jpg


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## bighuyou (Mar 25, 2019)

poser said:


> I don’t think the spine should be rounded, however, I think that sticking your butt out and having your chest closer to your knees can be an intuitive position that allows the body to absorb big hits and inconsistencies in the terrain and lots of latitude to shift your balance to recover from these same hits and inconsistencies. I wouldn’t teach a beginner to ride like that, but it has its place.
> 
> Now, the romantic idea of surfing a deep powder field like you might encounter cat skiing is more of a relax your upper body and lean on your back leg.


I wanted to make sure the body position you are talking about is 2.jpg? 
I know the proper position should be 1.jpg. But I feel on the not so steep slope of powder, we do not need to edge that much, but we need to bend knees to have good balance because powder is more uneven compared to groomed runs. In that case, if we do not edge much but still kept knees bent, the body position can easily become 2.jpg.......So yeah wasn't sure how advanced riders think about 2.jpg


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## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

Do both, depending on snow, angle, chop. This am was riding some nice cold 5" of fresh :smile:...a few times was not crouching enough and got tossed in part due to low puking vis (not enough shock absorption)...other times could stand straight up and cruise.


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## drblast (Feb 28, 2017)

bighuyou said:


> I wanted to make sure the body position you are talking about is 2.jpg?
> I know the proper position should be 1.jpg. But I feel on the not so steep slope of powder, we do not need to edge that much, but we need to bend knees to have good balance because powder is more uneven compared to groomed runs. In that case, if we do not edge much but still kept knees bent, the body position can easily become 2.jpg.......So yeah wasn't sure how advanced riders think about 2.jpg


Please, PLEASE put an NSFW disclaimer when posting sexy pictures like that.


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## poser (Mar 7, 2018)

#2 is the right idea however your drawing suggests that the hamstrings are relaxed. As you squat down low and bend over, your should be “hanging” or loading your upper body weight on the hamstrings. Your glutes and hamstrings are the largest muscles in your body. Use them. 

Here are 3 slight variations:


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## Paxford (Jan 7, 2019)

Rip154 said:


> I think you'd have to draw it, this sounds way ski instructorian. But if you look at videos of snowboarding, surfing or skateboarding and find some of the same movements, it's fine.


This vid might help out the OP. With the slomo you can really see the movements.


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## chomps1211 (Mar 30, 2011)

_This...._ 









...is *definitely* not the position you want! :blink:

....aside from this, I'd say you're fine. 
>


:hairy:


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## Snowdaddy (Feb 2, 2018)

bighuyou said:


> The thing is, I know the proper position should be 1.jpg
> I feel on the not so steep slope of powder, we do not need to edge that much, but we need to bend knees to have good balance because powder is more uneven compared to groomed runs. In that case, if we do not edge much but still kept knees bent, the position can easily become 2.jpg.......So yeah not sure how people think about 2.jpg


It depends on how much you want and need to bend those knees. While not turning it's not physically possible to keep your back straight unless you can flex your ankles to keep the center mass over the board. It's different in the turn of course.

Even if you ride like a pocket knife, you still should do it with bent knees and pushing the hips and knees into the turns. Beyond that it's just the style police and chiropractors that you have to worry about... Just my personal thoughts as a relatively new rider.

Instructional and inspirational videos. When I wave my arms around trying to stay upright or when I fold myself into a V I just convince myself I'm being stylish and think of these guys :crazy2:


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## Crusty (Nov 8, 2018)

drblast said:


> Please, PLEASE put an NSFW disclaimer when posting sexy pictures like that.


Someone has a fetish...

:laugh2:


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## bighuyou (Mar 25, 2019)

poser said:


> #2 is the right idea however your drawing suggests that the hamstrings are relaxed. As you squat down low and bend over, your should be “hanging” or loading your upper body weight on the hamstrings. Your glutes and hamstrings are the largest muscles in your body. Use them.
> 
> Here are 3 slight variations:


Thank you for the explanation and drawing!


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## chomps1211 (Mar 30, 2011)

bighuyou said:


> Thank you for the explanation and drawing!


If you're impatient,.. skip ahead to 3:15 into this vid. Watch it thru 4:45 at least. (...otherwise watch the whole thing! It's a great movie!) 

Take a close Look at the way these guys are "crouched" for fast, responsive turns in the deep white stuff. 






Vid Link:





_Crouching,_ is good! :grin:

Being bent over at the waist, with locked knees and yer arms flailing and ass hanging out like your waiting to become "Chairlift Master?" ...that Isn't!! >

If you're doing the former,... Awesome!
If you're doing the latter,..? _Stop It!!_ :laugh:


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## bighuyou (Mar 25, 2019)

really helpful. thank you!


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## bighuyou (Mar 25, 2019)

chomps1211 said:


> If you're impatient,.. skip ahead to 3:15 into this vid. Watch it thru 4:45 at least. (...otherwise watch the whole thing! It's a great movie!)
> 
> Take a close Look at the way these guys are "crouched" for fast, responsive turns in the deep white stuff.
> 
> ...



Ah! I guess we naturally crouch to gain more balance then. Great video! thank you!


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## chomps1211 (Mar 30, 2011)

Yeah,.. balance is a part of it. But when you're riding fast, on variable or tight terrain, you want all the flexion and extension possible for making tight, fast turns and absorbing any bumps. 

When you're riding fast & tight in deep stuff, you're turning the board under you without a lot of push back from the snow. It's not like riding hardpack or a few in. of fresh. It's closer to surfing. The surface under you gives and the board moves & responds to input in a different manner. 

The only way to ride pow in a pretty much full upright position is on smooth, _wide_ open terrain. There you can get those loooong, sweeping, surfy looking turns. 

Those type turns don't require as quick a response from ones center of gravity. You can get away with letting your more upright position sway back n forth over the board, responding to gravity & inertia as you turn. 

That style is just too slow & awkward for bumpy, tight turning runs. It's not necessarily _bad_ or _wrong!_. It's just not the right response to that terrain. :shrug:


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## smellysell (Oct 29, 2018)

Snowdaddy said:


> It depends on how much you want and need to bend those knees. While not turning it's not physically possible to keep your back straight unless you can flex your ankles to keep the center mass over the board. It's different in the turn of course.
> 
> Even if you ride like a pocket knife, you still should do it with bent knees and pushing the hips and knees into the turns. Beyond that it's just the style police and chiropractors that you have to worry about... Just my personal thoughts as a relatively new rider.
> 
> ...


That was amazing

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


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## Myoko (Dec 11, 2018)

I analyse everything, but stance wise in powder I just lean back onto my back foot and keep the tip of the board up. That's all I got.


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## Donutz (May 12, 2010)

So, people with channel boards -- on a pow day, do you just adjust the bindings back a bit?


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## Rip154 (Sep 23, 2017)

I just do that on full camber boards. Were you thinking like from run to run because of the channel?


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## Donutz (May 12, 2010)

I've never gotten a close-up look at a channel (Burton) board and bindings, but my impression is that it's very easy to adjust stance width, setback, angle, etc. Something like a lockdown lever instead of screws? Anyway, if so, it would be a lot easier than taking out a screwdriver and setting your bindings back a hole or two on powder days.


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## Rip154 (Sep 23, 2017)

No, they have 1 screw on each side of the binding and can slide it around and change angles, so it's way easier to adjust than regular bindings, but still needs a tool. I think you mean the rental thingy they have or had., where you just flip a lever on the disc and stuff.


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## Paxford (Jan 7, 2019)

Myoko said:


> I analyse everything, but stance wise in powder I just lean back onto my back foot and keep the tip of the board up. That's all I got.




Me too (analyze everything) but I’m intentionally riding pow the opposite. I’m trying to lean back much less, maintain my flow, and increase speed. Basically seeking trim perfection so I’m gliding, not porpoising. I do it surfing but it’s more difficult in pow because the nose sinks so easily. My snowboard is setback 4 inches though so leaning forward isn’t the same compared to most people and the boards they are riding.


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