# Lactic Acid - HELP



## deagol (Mar 26, 2014)

seems wise to get real medical advice for something like this...


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## jbirdbear (Jan 27, 2014)

I don’t disagree but honestly I don’t know who would actually be able to answer me. I want real answers not PCP thoughts. 


deagol said:


> seems wise to get real medical advice for something like this...


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## bazman (Jan 15, 2017)

Definitely get professional help, but where abouts in your legs does the issue occur? Hamstrings, Quads, etc

This would help narrow down the problem


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## Phedder (Sep 13, 2014)

If it's a non issue with any other physical activity, then looking at your technique could well be worth it. You might be working a lot harder, or with the wrong muscles, than you need to be.


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## Manicmouse (Apr 7, 2014)

Got a video for us? :grin:


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## mojo maestro (Jan 6, 2009)

Some pics of your feet.......would probably help us..........


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## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

maybe compression sleeves on the calves...I use these

Imperial Neoprene Wristers, 2 pack


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## Donutz (May 12, 2010)

If you're generally fit otherwise and don't have this problem with things like mountain biking, then my first guess would be bad form, or maybe a badly set up board. Cheapest solution: post a video of your riding. Better solution: take a private lesson.


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## snowman55 (Feb 17, 2012)

If you don't have issues doing other similar physical activities (squats, calf raises etc) , most likely it's your technique. 

If I had to guess, you are over using certain muscles due to bad technique or setup. I've seen this type of thing happen many times due to poor fitting boots . I've had similar thing happen to me when I first began riding because I was riding with a boot that was 1 size too big. It's a common mistake for many people.


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## jbirdbear (Jan 27, 2014)

It's primarily my calves, but does shoot into my quads as well. And I'm sure it's partially technique, but I've had private lessons before and I don't know exactly how to fix whatever I'm doing wrong. An interesting note is that when it is a heavy powder day (we had some beauties on our Vermont trips the past 2 years) I don't notice it as much, which is probably how I'm riding the fluff vs. groomed.

Something I do know I'm doing, is I slide from turn to turn more than I set an edge with my board, but I have a lot of trouble flexing my feet to get the board on an edge without actually catching the edge. My husband and I have worked on it and I get the concept, but when it comes to putting it into practice, I can't seem to get it.

I don't know. Maybe it's just not for me and I'm having a hard time admitting that to myself.


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## jbirdbear (Jan 27, 2014)

wrathfuldeity said:


> maybe compression sleeves on the calves...I use these
> 
> Imperial Neoprene Wristers, 2 pack


Thank you! I think that is not a terrible place to start.


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## jbirdbear (Jan 27, 2014)

snowman55 said:


> If you don't have issues doing other similar physical activities (squats, calf raises etc) , most likely it's your technique.
> 
> If I had to guess, you are over using certain muscles due to bad technique or setup. I've seen this type of thing happen many times due to poor fitting boots . I've had similar thing happen to me when I first began riding because I was riding with a boot that was 1 size too big. It's a common mistake for many people.


I got new boots 2 seasons ago hoping that would help, and they are much better fitting, but I am also debating on getting heel inserts, since my feet are just so small and I think my heels are raising too much, forcing my legs to over-compensate.


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## Argo (Feb 25, 2010)

Sounds like 2 things, poorly fitted or too soft a boot and poor form.

Take a 3rd, 4th, 5th look at GOOD boots that are properly fitted.

Get some lessons from a certified instructor.


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## jbirdbear (Jan 27, 2014)

Argo said:


> Sounds like 2 things, poorly fitted or too soft a boot and poor form.
> 
> Take a 3rd, 4th, 5th look at GOOD boots that are properly fitted.
> 
> Get some lessons from a certified instructor.


What would you consider a good boot? Real question.

I've also decided to get j bars to assist in the lifting. If I go any smaller, my toes will be gone.


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## francium (Jan 12, 2013)

A good boot is one that is fitted to the shape of your feet. I have narrow feet and skinny ankles so I wear Salomon boots mainly, if they're fitted correctly you should get very little heel lift if any. Things like jbars are just a way of getting ill fitted boots to work slightly better.


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## jbirdbear (Jan 27, 2014)

francium said:


> A good boot is one that is fitted to the shape of your feet. I have narrow feet and skinny ankles so I wear Salomon boots mainly, if they're fitted correctly you should get very little heel lift if any. Things like jbars are just a way of getting ill fitted boots to work slightly better.


Agreed. Since I just got mine 2 seasons ago (Burtons, they were pricey) I'm willing to spend $20-30 first to see if that makes any difference. If not, I will look further into new ones altogether.


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## fullvermonty (Jan 6, 2018)

Get a lesson from an instructor that has some serious credentialling. Not all instructors are the same. Some of them are fine for learning very basic stuff from, but are worthless when it comes to being able to analyze mechanical problems. When you book the lesson, specify you want someone who is PSIA-AASI III, that's a good start. 

From your description, yes, you may have a boot issue. But it also may be a technique or stance issue. Story time: Last winter I got to messing around and decided to try moving my bindings to a slightly wider position, just to see if it felt more stable. Gave it up pretty fast. It made my ankles and calves feel like lava. Just like you said, I couldn't make it down even a super mellow blue without having to stop and rest and stretch the crap out of them. You wouldn't think a maybe three-inch difference would cause huge problems, but it did. 

It could be something like that.


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## Argo (Feb 25, 2010)

jbirdbear said:


> Agreed. Since I just got mine 2 seasons ago (Burtons, they were pricey) I'm willing to spend $20-30 first to see if that makes any difference. If not, I will look further into new ones altogether.


You say 2 seasons but how many days? I use boots 100 days and get new ones, that isnt even one season for me most years. 

What do you consider expensive? 

Are you over 180 lbs? Medium boots are soft for your weight.... medium/stiff is gonna be medium.... so on and so forth. 

I use flow talons, $400+ boots. Im a big dude @290lbs so their very stiff rating is a medium/stiff for me.... 

If you're heels arent staying put(less than 1mm of play), you're in the wrong boots. This heel lift causes more of the kind of pain you're complaining about than just About anything else.


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## jbirdbear (Jan 27, 2014)

Argo said:


> You say 2 seasons but how many days? I use boots 100 days and get new ones, that isnt even one season for me most years.
> 
> What do you consider expensive?
> 
> ...





fullvermonty said:


> Get a lesson from an instructor that has some serious credentialling. Not all instructors are the same. Some of them are fine for learning very basic stuff from, but are worthless when it comes to being able to analyze mechanical problems. When you book the lesson, specify you want someone who is PSIA-AASI III, that's a good start.
> 
> From your description, yes, you may have a boot issue. But it also may be a technique or stance issue. Story time: Last winter I got to messing around and decided to try moving my bindings to a slightly wider position, just to see if it felt more stable. Gave it up pretty fast. It made my ankles and calves feel like lava. Just like you said, I couldn't make it down even a super mellow blue without having to stop and rest and stretch the crap out of them. You wouldn't think a maybe three-inch difference would cause huge problems, but it did.
> 
> It could be something like that.


That's true. Maybe I should try and get a proper fit. I know we changed up the stance ever so slightly this past year but I can't remember in which direction. I didn't notice a difference.


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## jbirdbear (Jan 27, 2014)

Argo said:


> You say 2 seasons but how many days? I use boots 100 days and get new ones, that isnt even one season for me most years.
> 
> What do you consider expensive?
> 
> ...


Fair questions. In good ole' Southeast PA, we don't get a ton of natural snow (I'm not near the poconos), so I usually only get to use them about 10-12 times a season. (Jealous of your 100+ days)

I'd probably like to stay around $300, but if I were to find something that would actually get rid of this issue I would probably pay more. The problem would be the trial and error and possibly being out the money. 

I'm around 120 lbs, 5'2". Any thoughts on what kind of support I'm looking for at these specs? There's definitely more than 1mm of play which I think answers my question. Something so simple as boots seems to be my main issue and I guess I wouldn't have realized it without internet input.

I'll check out the Flows, i have their bindings. I do also need boa lacing systems since I can't get them tight enough on my own with simple laces. *insert small girl shrug here*


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## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

jbirdbear said:


> Something I do know I'm doing, is I slide from turn to turn more than I set an edge with my board, but I have a lot of trouble flexing my feet to get the board on an edge without actually catching the edge. My husband and I have worked on it and I get the concept, but when it comes to putting it into practice, I can't seem to get it.


A couple of things

1 check this link, as for mods to deal with any heel lift, mod some j/c/butterflies, get some aftermarket insoles that fit your arch.
http://www.snowboardingforum.com/boots/51066-boots-faq-etc.html

2 paging @wiredsport for damsel in distress for boot size

3 check your movements, as for flexing your feet to get the board on edge....NO... use your knees/hips instead of your feet and burning your calves. Squeeze yer butt...See the creepy basement vid >


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## Argo (Feb 25, 2010)

jbirdbear said:


> Fair questions. In good ole' Southeast PA, we don't get a ton of natural snow (I'm not near the poconos), so I usually only get to use them about 10-12 times a season. (Jealous of your 100+ days)
> 
> I'd probably like to stay around $300, but if I were to find something that would actually get rid of this issue I would probably pay more. The problem would be the trial and error and possibly being out the money.
> 
> ...


If Your female? There are only a few good female boots out there for intermediate and above freeride and flow isnt one of them.... maybe @neni can tell you a couple. 

If you're a small dude then you're hopeful for more options if you're not under a size 7 or so.


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## jbirdbear (Jan 27, 2014)

wrathfuldeity said:


> A couple of things
> 
> 1 check this link, as for mods to deal with any heel lift, mod some j/c/butterflies, get some aftermarket insoles that fit your arch.
> http://www.snowboardingforum.com/boots/51066-boots-faq-etc.html
> ...


Thank you!! I am going to try the aftermarket mods before going full new boot. 

I will watch said creepy video when I'm not at work lol. But I am happy to hear there is another option to set the edge. My feet just can't do it.


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## jbirdbear (Jan 27, 2014)

Argo said:


> If Your female? There are only a few good female boots out there for intermediate and above freeride and flow isnt one of them.... maybe @neni can tell you a couple.
> 
> If you're a small dude then you're hopeful for more options if you're not under a size 7 or so.


Am small female, unfortunately. I did find these that rate a 7 on the stiffness scale that might be worth looking into. Plus I still have a bit before the 2019's start flying off the shelves.

https://www.evo.com/snowboard-boots/ride-cadence-womens#image=120886/509741/ride-cadence-snowboard-boots-women-s-2018-black.jpg


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## Argo (Feb 25, 2010)

jbirdbear said:


> Am small female, unfortunately. I did find these that rate a 7 on the stiffness scale that might be worth looking into. Plus I still have a bit before the 2019's start flying off the shelves.
> 
> https://www.evo.com/snowboard-boots/ride-cadence-womens#image=120886/509741/ride-cadence-snowboard-boots-women-s-2018-black.jpg


Those are great, my wife has them. She is about your size, 1.5" taller. 

Really need to try the top 3 and see which fit you best. 32 has some good women's boots too like the binary and jones....


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## jbirdbear (Jan 27, 2014)

Argo said:


> jbirdbear said:
> 
> 
> > Am small female, unfortunately. I did find these that rate a 7 on the stiffness scale that might be worth looking into. Plus I still have a bit before the 2019's start flying off the shelves.
> ...


Oh good to know! 
I had 32 as my first pair, they were great. I’ll see how the inserts and such go and if it’s a noticeable difference (fingers crossed) I will invest in some new ones.


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

I've a high wrist and narrow heel. The Ride Cadence was the best fit I found. No heel lift at all even without mods. No other boot I tried (probably all women's top line ones) had such a nice "like a glove" fit for _my_ foot. And that's the crux. The boot has to fit _your_ foot. Try many different models and don't go too large as almost everyone does with their first pairs. Measure your foot and go for the correct size. If one model doesn't fit well in that size? Go for a _different_ boot, not a larger size. 32 (iirc it was a XLT) and DC Mora were also ok for my narrow ankle.

Once you solved the heel lift issue - which very likely is already the main reason cos with heel lift and cranking boa you are doomed to get pain - and you still happen to feel the pain? Change your stance. Width as well as angles. Maybe try +/+ angles. Not everyone's body is made for duck angles... 

And check the width of your board. It may be too wide i.e. leverage is lacking. Combine this with a soft binding and soft boot? Quick muscle fatigue. Since you don't ride often, your body can't build up specific muscles you need for riding by riding anyway. A wide board together with heel lift lead to amplified muscle overstraining. Train your forefoot muscles before the season starts to be prepared for the slopes.

Edit: oh... and don't crank your laces. A well fitting boot doesn't need to be overtightened. Cranking leads to cut off circulation which also leads to cramps n pain.


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## fullvermonty (Jan 6, 2018)

Neni is right. The best boot is not necessarily the top-rated or most expensive boot - the best boot for you is the one that fits your feet. 

If you're getting heel lift, you definitely need to fix that. That could be either the whole problem, or a contributing factor, or a problem in general but not the problem that is causing your pain. 

As I said in an earlier post, when I widened out my stance I started having the same pain you're describing, so I would think that might be something to check out.


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## zc1 (Feb 20, 2017)

Is it the fronts or backs of your legs that ache? To me 'calves' refers to the back of the lower leg, but I suspect you meant the front.


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## freshy (Nov 18, 2009)

zc1 said:


> Is it the fronts or backs of your legs that ache? To me 'calves' refers to the back of the lower leg, but I suspect you meant the front.


Those are called shins.


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## zc1 (Feb 20, 2017)

freshy said:


> Those are called shins.


LOL. Yes, they are. That doesn't change anything. I don't assume we're all speaking the same language. We could use far more anatomically correct terminology than shins, as well, but that wouldn't further the discussion. "Front" and "Back" is clear for everyone.


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## zc1 (Feb 20, 2017)

I say this because given the other activities that were mentioned as being no issue, I'd be surprised if it's actually the calves that are burning, but not at all if it's actually the shins -- hence wondering if the OP was referring to the entire lower leg as the calf. There's method to the madness...


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## Rip154 (Sep 23, 2017)

A narrow, soft, setback board with some camber should help alot. Try a more directional stance, until you get turns dialed at least.


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## Thinker (May 6, 2018)

My feet get also extremely tired and full of lactate on the first couple of runs of the day. With me though, I need to take a couple of warm-up runs at the beginner slope and then it gets better for the rest of the day. I don't know what the problem is for me. My boots are pretty snug without being super tight, and I even switched to a stiffer board. My thoughts are that I'm activating too much of my feet muscles when riding. It's hard to warm-up the feet themselves, but if your problem is with the calves and thighs, have you tried warming up?


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