# Feedback on my turns



## dfitz364 (Jan 10, 2014)

First things first, watch the "creepy basement video." FULL of great information for beginning riders. 

link: https://youtu.be/8-dkcnRY8ic

Next, just from initial observations, have you tried widening your stance at all? Stance is all comfort, so if it is uncomfortable, don't do it!! But my very first thought was it seemed your stance was very narrow, which makes controlling the board harder.


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## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

Ur doing great for just riding a couple of weeks. So the following is a bit of nit picking.

Your are riding slightly open shouldered...close the leading shoulders when making toeside turns...look back up the hill.

Looks like you don't have a wide enough stance and thus can't properly squat nor get "stacked" so as to become more dynamic.

U are awful stiff...common thing for newbs....get more dynamic...bend the knees and get going up and down...squatting. 

Watch the creepy basement vid...on moi profile


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## DrZ (Jan 17, 2018)

Thank you, Dfitz364. I watched Wrath's video before and picked up a few things. I will check it out again. 

I can definitely try widening my stance and see how it feels. My board is a 160. I am 5'11, 175 pounds. Might the stance look not wide because the board is too big for my frame? 

Any other suggestions? I cannot help but turn perpendicular to the hill at times. How do I stop that?


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## DrZ (Jan 17, 2018)

Thank you, Wrath! I thought your video was one of the most informative ones out there despite the nice basement scene 

I will definitely change my stance and try it. 

Regarding the open shoulder, I try to look downhill to make sure I don't hit anyone on the way. I guess naturally the shoulder opens up. I will keep an eye on that next time as well as get more dynamic ups/downs.


Any other suggestions? Thanks again!


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## dfitz364 (Jan 10, 2014)

DrZ said:


> Thank you, Dfitz364. I watched Wrath's video before and picked up a few things. I will check it out again.
> 
> I can definitely try widening my stance and see how it feels. My board is a 160. I am 5'11, 175 pounds. Might the stance look not wide because the board is too big for my frame?
> 
> Any other suggestions? I cannot help but turn perpendicular to the hill at times. How do I stop that?


At that height, definitely widen the stance. But beating a dead horse. Try it out! 

I think wrath hit the nail on the head with being dynamic. It seems as you are (somewhat) ruddering the back foot instead of driving through turns. Partially comes from just not being used to speed on the board, also can come from beginners being a bit back seated as well. Try being dynamic and driving that front foot to initiate the turn, rather than feeling like you are picking up the back foot to get it where it needs to be.

Really though, you aren't looking bad for a beginning rider. A lot of these things, as with most things, will come with time on the mountain and more riding. Comfort with speed and minute changes while riding come from building a solid beginning base, and using your instincts from there. You are off to a good start!


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## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

DrZ said:


> Any other suggestions? I cannot help but turn perpendicular to the hill at times. How do I stop that?


Getting perpendicular is not a bad thing...its just a tool. A reason that ur getting perpendicular is because of your timing. That is you are getting in the back seat to complete your turns...but ur staying in the back seat too long and not getting out of the back seat fast or soon enough and therefore your back foot tends to rudder. A potential remedy is to focus on keeping your leading shoulder and hip within 45 degrees of the fall line. This will make your turns more elongated S shape and you will avoid doing the more completed C shape turns...but you will be going faster.


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## DrZ (Jan 17, 2018)

Thank you both, Wrath and Dfitz364, for a very insightful feedback. 

I will definitely widen my stance and try to keep an eye on the shoulder/hip alignment as well as steering with the front foot and not staying on the backseat for very long. 
I could use some speed so also will try to stay within 45 degrees .

Just to clarify, when turning, the weight is in the front foot then balanced weight during the turn and at the end the back foot has more weight until I initiate the next turn, correct?
One more quick question: when initiating the next turn, does the back foot keeps the pressure on the current turn while front foot releases that pressure and somewhat twists (flex) the board. Is the front foot always one step ahead of the backfoot as far as edge pressure is concerned? (sorry for the detailed questions- I usually learn better when I understand the mechanics)


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## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

^At your stage of riding...YES you have the mechanics correctly. I suggest that you ride greens and blues for a couple of weeks until you have these mechanics down...until they become second nature and you don't even think about it. In the creepy vid, I chose to just focus on the leading knee/foot...because for me and maybe most folks...trying to also thing about keeping the back foot engaged a splitsecond longer becomes overwhelming trying to thought process it all. You will find that you will learn something and then you have to learn to forget it....because ur moving too fast and think'n is too slow.


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## jae (Nov 27, 2015)

dfitz and wrath probably have you covered, they wrote a lot of stuff so I didn't read like 90% of it.

Widen your stance a bit, bend your knees a little more, steer with your front knee, spread your arms out a little bit more (hands at tip and tail of your board to minimize waist movement, pretend you're doing the 90's surf pose or the iphone surfing emoji).

p.s. you're kicking ass.


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## DrZ (Jan 17, 2018)

Awesome! Thank you very much, Wrath! I really appreciate it.


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## f00bar (Mar 6, 2014)

Forget about speed, it will come naturally. Work on your turns. Spend a few runs concentrating on nothing but turns and staying on edge. Going fast is easy, all it takes is gravity and confidence (yes, simplified there is more to it). Turning takes skill and that skill will gain you confidence you need to gain more speed.


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## DrZ (Jan 17, 2018)

jae said:


> dfitz and wrath probably have you covered, they wrote a lot of stuff so I didn't read like 90% of it.
> 
> Widen your stance a bit, bend your knees a little more, steer with your front knee, spread your arms out a little bit more (hands at tip and tail of your board to minimize waist movement, pretend you're doing the 90's surf pose or the iphone surfing emoji).
> 
> p.s. you're kicking ass.


Thank you, Jae! Appreciate the kind feedback. 

Can you clarify what you mean by "minimizing the waist movement"? In other words, does it have to do with balancing on the board by having hips being central on the board?


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## jae (Nov 27, 2015)

DrZ said:


> Thank you, Jae! Appreciate the kind feedback.
> 
> Can you clarify what you mean by "minimizing the waist movement"? In other words, does it have to do with balancing on the board by having hips being central on the board?






 around 6:16.


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## DrZ (Jan 17, 2018)

jae said:


> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qsd8uaex-Is around 6:16.


Thank you, Jae! That totally makes sense. I am definitely keeping an eye on the counter rotation when I am striving out there ... 
Great video btw!


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## jae (Nov 27, 2015)

DrZ said:


> Thank you, Jae! That totally makes sense. I am definitely keeping an eye on the counter rotation when I am striving out there ...
> Great video btw!


once you have it down you can ride with your arms folded if you want. A easy way without focusing too much is just to stick your arms out over the nose and tail.


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## speedjason (May 2, 2013)

Not bad. Now dial down the turning force so you can allow the board to make bigger wider turns.


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## DrZ (Jan 17, 2018)

Thank you Jason, F00bar and Jae for the feedback. Much appreciated.


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## Synathidy (Apr 4, 2017)

jae said:


> once you have it down you can ride with your arms folded if you want. A easy way without focusing too much is just to stick your arms out over the nose and tail.


Totally. So much good advice in this thread. I'll add something else I like to do: pretend like I'm reaching for the nose of my board with my front hand. This is conducive to alignment, keeping weight on the front foot, and maintaining a nice crouch.


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## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

Synathidy said:


> Totally. So much good advice in this thread. I'll add something else I like to do: pretend like I'm reaching for the nose of my board with my front hand. This is conducive to alignment, keeping weight on the front foot, and maintaining a nice crouch.


^great tip...to add is to "point your turns." With your leading hand, point your turns...use your hand to point *down toward *the center of the carve (imaginary center of the circle/radius). So you hand will be over the toeside edge when turning toeside (and your back hand will be counter, that is, over the heelside edge). And when turning heelside, your lead hand will be over the heelside edge and pointing/reaching down toward the heelside center of the carve (while your back hand will be over the toeside of the edge).


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## DrZ (Jan 17, 2018)

I filmed another run on the mountain. Sorry for the last piece - my cameraman was on a set of blades and had a hard time to catch up at the end . 

Any feedback would be appreciated. Thanks in advance!


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## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

Much better! When ur toeside and touching the snow....don't bend over!...keep your back straight and upright...instead...SQUAT bend the knees...crouch low with your butt low instead having it high in the air. Also get more loose and relaxed...get jigglie in your whole body. Your are certainly much better aligned and stacked...great improvement.


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## DrZ (Jan 17, 2018)

wrathfuldeity said:


> Much better! When ur toeside and touching the snow....don't bend over!...keep your back straight and upright...instead...SQUAT bend the knees...crouch low with your butt low instead having it high in the air. Also get more loose and relaxed...get jigglie in your whole body. You are certainly much better aligned and stacked...great improvement.


Thank you Wrath! I am still trying to figure out "dynamic riding". I am guessing being jigglie is part of that. Any suggestions (exercises) to get more loose on the board and be more dynamic? Or is it just time?
I was actually surprised when I saw the video. My heel side seems to be a lot smoother than toe side (maybe it was because it was a relatively mild run). Perhaps I can try to film one on a blue run and see how things shift...


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## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

DrZ said:


> Thank you Wrath! I am still trying to figure out "dynamic riding". I am guessing being jigglie is part of that. Any suggestions (exercises) to get more loose on the board and be more dynamic? Or is it just time?
> I was actually surprised when I saw the video. My heel side seems to be a lot smoother than toe side (maybe it was because it was a relatively mild run). Perhaps I can try to film one on a blue run and see how things shift...


A couple drills for dynamic...big kitty/little kitty...hear me roar (lol). Just ride tall for a bit, then ride short with elbows resting on your knees and butt slung low...up and down...then do the up and down faster and faster.

Second, just cruise on a mellow run...like the one ur on in the vid. And stand in the athletic stance but swing your arms in opposite directions (like when walking at a good pace) as you cruise along. Notice what happens with the board...how just by swinging your arms it effects your board and shoulders.

Third, incorporate/integrate the two drills...up/down and swinging the arms...eventually you will get the timing and integration coordinated with making more dynamic/stable/powerful turns.


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## DrZ (Jan 17, 2018)

wrathfuldeity said:


> A couple drills for dynamic...big kitty/little kitty...hear me roar (lol). Just ride tall for a bit, then ride short with elbows resting on your knees and butt slung low...up and down...then do the up and down faster and faster.
> 
> Second, just cruise on a mellow run...like the one ur on in the vid. And stand in the athletic stance but swing your arms in opposite directions (like when walking at a good pace) as you cruise along. Notice what happens with the board...how just by swinging your arms it effects your board and shoulders.
> 
> Third, incorporate/integrate the two drills...up/down and swinging the arms...eventually you will get the timing and integration coordinated with making more dynamic/stable/powerful turns.


Awesome! Thank you very much, Wrath! I will give it a shot next time for sure. Appreciate all the input.


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## jae (Nov 27, 2015)

Nice you stopped most of the counter rotation.

when cutting across a run, look up hill before you do, looked like it was close... that's why your camera man got left behind. 

loosen the shoulders up.

You're riding top heavy. think cereal box. watch wrath's vid again. you don't want to be outside that cereal box. when turning, imagine shifting your weight into the balls of your foot and heel to excerpt pressure to the edges and use those edges to turn.


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## SGboarder (Jun 24, 2012)

Great progress. A few comments:
1. As other have mentioned, you're bending at the waist and getting out the 'box' when touching the snow in front (why are you dong that anyway)?
2. More importantly work on more board tilt/edge angle. That goes hand-in-hand with more lower body bend and being dynamic.
3. Most importantly you're still slightly in the backseat. Probably 40:60 front:back so not dramatic but try to reverse it for now: try to have like 60% on the front foot. When it feels like that you'll actually be roughly centered.


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## Synathidy (Apr 4, 2017)

Yup, looking better in that more recent vid. Others are already giving great advice on further adjustments. As long as you keep at it, you're like, at the point where you're about to start making huge strides in comfort and stance form. Soon you'll be zig-zagging and weaving around like a slalom master. It's a wonderful time in one's snowboarding progression. That "looseness" (being relaxed but reactive) and this so-called "dynamic riding"... those will definitely come simply with a bit more experience.

Stoked for you, dude. The art of the turn: a basic, but nuanced skill. Perhaps sometimes taken for granted, but so key to having fun surfing the snow.


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## Alpine Duke (Jun 21, 2015)

DrZ said:


> Hijack
> 
> Edit: never mind. I was commenting on this traverse cutting across all of the downhill runs with blind corners (yikes) but it appears this goes mostly along the top of them the first half. I was wondering how you weren't getting drilled from the portside....but it seems only on the last part were you horizontally splitting runs, one after another.
> 
> I still don't like that set up.


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## Fielding (Feb 15, 2015)

I agree with making stance wider. Maybe dial up your forward lean adjustment too. You bend your knees a little on toe turns but none at all on heel turns. Get more bendy. I realize that locking knees and standing up straight is a normal fear based reaction to sliding. No shame there. You just need to overcome your fear instincts and learn to pilot the board. If you’re set up to be in a symmetrical duck stance let me suggest that you reduce the rear foot angle some while keeping splay the same. It’ll make seeing through your heel turns easier. That can increase confidence.


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## DrZ (Jan 17, 2018)

Thank you all for great feedback and encouragement! It is work in progress indeed. I will keep an eye on the posture (cereal box) and also try to relax a bit more (dynamic riding). I will give those suggestions a shot and report back.

Re' the cutting across the downhill runs, it is an east coast thing I think. They are trying to utilize the small hills as much as possible around here ...


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## DrZ (Jan 17, 2018)

Here is my latest run. Slightly steeper run. I look a lot less dynamic than what I felt during the filming . I tried to even up the turns and dig deeper by lowering my knees. 

Look forward to your feedback! Thanks in advance for your insight.


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## jae (Nov 27, 2015)

you have improved a lot in a short amount of time. looks so clean compared to the previous vid.

now try to amplify those carves. make more swooping long drawn out carves and pay attention to your edges. minimize any wobbling and really ride the sidecut. you can practice this by cutting across a run on one edge, then the other. try to put a little more pressure on your toes as it looks a bit weak(might be because of where the sun is, casting down shade, but I'm judging it more based on your line.), your heel side looks great.


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## WasabiCanuck (Apr 29, 2015)

You look good. Now just gradually increase the speed. You make a lot of small turns (those have their time&place) in the vid but I would like to see you on something steeper with longer turns. Also on a wider run that is not so crowded. Holy shit Breck is busy!


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## DrZ (Jan 17, 2018)

Thank you Wasabi and Jae for the quick feedback. I was focusing more on the turns in this run. I can do a run with longer wider turns on the edge (carving).

I tried to quite the upper body as much as possible and increased forward lean in the bindings which helped with the heel side. Not sure why toeside looks weaker though. Maybe more bent in the knees. How do I stop the wobbling? Is that just the angle of the edge or lower center of gravity? Any other feedback (and/or exercises) do you have that might help?


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## jae (Nov 27, 2015)

I didn't notice any wobbling, I was just preemptively giving you something to watch out for on longer drawn out carves. if you are wobbly, give this thread a read. http://www.snowboardingforum.com/ti...ng/205385-how-not-jackhammer-carved-turn.html

lowering the center of gravity always helps. just ride your edges more and it'll eventually click.


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## WasabiCanuck (Apr 29, 2015)

DrZ said:


> Thank you Wasabi and Jae for the quick feedback. I was focusing more on the turns in this run. I can do a run with longer wider turns on the edge (carving).
> 
> I tried to quite the upper body as much as possible and increased forward lean in the bindings which helped with the heel side. Not sure why toeside looks weaker though. Maybe more bent in the knees. How do I stop the wobbling? Is that just the angle of the edge or lower center of gravity? Any other feedback (and/or exercises) do you have that might help?


I didn't notice any wobble either, you have nice turns. I could tell you were trying to show turns, almost too much turning. Is there another run that is not so busy and maybe wider? If you were on a run with a lower nerd ratio (Ryan Knapton joke), you could show turns at higher speed. It didn't look like the speed in your vid was challenging you much.


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## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

Very nice improvement! Ur correct, still look a bit stiff/non-dynamic, get going up and down and go on steeper runs to force your self to get dynamic inorder to control your speed. Also as mentioned by others, your toeside being a bit weak. This is because ur still riding abit open in the shoulders and hips with a bit of invisable girl friend. What ur doing is very normal. Focus on compacting your upper body rotation around the vertical axis; glue your elbows to your ribs and focus on engaging your leading shoulder when going toeside. It looks like u widened your stance...and I'd say widen it a bit more.

Maybe try the following:
A drill to get more dynamic: When doing heelside carves....bend the knees and get your butt low enough to touch the snow with your leading hand (don't bend over at the waist...squat/bend the knees and make sure your butt is slung loooow). Then doing toeside carves, do the same thing but with your trailing/rear hand touch the snow.


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## speedjason (May 2, 2013)

Nice progress. You are doing a lot better being more dynamic.


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## DrZ (Jan 17, 2018)

Thank you all for the feedback. @jae - Great thread about chattering and very applicable to east coast snowboarding. I look forward to the "click" with the carving. @wasabi - "a lower nerd ratio" haha... The run was mild indeed. I will look for a more challenging run and take another shot at it with wider & faster turns @wrath - I was actually trying to mimic Ryan Knapton (where his upper body is silent and all action in his lower body).I don't see his upper body moving at all. Am I skipping steps by trying to do that? 
Perhaps I need to be more flexible. Thank you for the suggestion. I am going to definitely give that drill a shot and see how it feels.


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## speedjason (May 2, 2013)

DrZ said:


> I was actually trying to mimic Ryan Knapton (where his upper body is silent and all action in his lower body).I don't see his upper body moving at all. Am I skipping steps by trying to do that?


I am gonna say maybe. What he does is what called cross-under carving which the board is pivoting at his hip while the upper body is relative calm.
There is another technique called cross-over carving where your body is pivoting at the board.
They are both very important techniques and I used a combination of two.
Cross-under allows fast edge switching where cross-over allows better edge stacking which means more turning force.
Cross-under need a lot more edge control because you have to initiate the the turns with front foot fast. Your board would look like a fish swimming kinda like swimming back and forth.
Cross-over need a lot more weight shifting because you are pressuring different part of the edge throughout the turn. Usually when you start the turn you put weight in the front as you turn progress you shift back. As you finish the turn to switch edge, you shift back to the front unweighting the board and pop onto the other edge.


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## DrZ (Jan 17, 2018)

speedjason said:


> I am gonna say maybe. What he does is what called cross-under carving which the board is pivoting at his hip while the upper body is relative calm.
> There is another technique called cross-over carving where your body is pivoting at the board.
> They are both very important techniques and I used a combination of two.
> Cross-under allows fast edge switching where cross-over allows better edge stacking which means more turning force.
> ...


That totally makes sense Jason! As a beginner (getting into intermediate arena slowly), should I perfect one over another? Guessing since cross-over carving since I need a lot better edge control for the other ... What to focus on first (other than what was mentioned earlier by Wrath, Jae, and other insights)? Should I try to become a good carver by digging deeper in and angling better (after fixing the stand - as suggested by Wrath)?


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## jae (Nov 27, 2015)

work on both, but don't get too caught up on it. you're going to look like one of those slow skiers I get stuck behind that are trying to make those erratic figure 8 lines. I swear once I think it's okay to pass them, they start going wider with their turns. it's like trying to jump rope.

while I'm not too sure of the terms, it sounds like cross over is what you should be working on. that will give you a feel for faster speeds and more force on your edges.


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## speedjason (May 2, 2013)

DrZ said:


> That totally makes sense Jason! As a beginner (getting into intermediate arena slowly), should I perfect one over another? Guessing since cross-over carving since I need a lot better edge control for the other ... What to focus on first (other than what was mentioned earlier by Wrath, Jae, and other insights)? Should I try to become a good carver by digging deeper in and angling better (after fixing the stand - as suggested by Wrath)?


I am gonna say cross-over is more usable as cross-under but once you get good at cross-over, cross-under will come naturally.
Cross-over is very beneficial on steep runs.


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## mbe (Jan 17, 2017)

DrZ, you improved a lot! Very good job. Please keep us posted, I would like to see your new videos.


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## WasabiCanuck (Apr 29, 2015)

Ya I don't worry about my upper body too much. I'm mostly concentrating on transferring my weight and getting low through the apex of the turn.


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## DrZ (Jan 17, 2018)

mbe said:


> DrZ, you improved a lot! Very good job. Please keep us posted, I would like to see your new videos.


Thank you very much mbe! Work in progress indeed. This forum and the amazing insight I get on here help a lot with my progression.


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