# Snowboarding going out of fashion



## sponger606 (Nov 26, 2011)

Saw this. 

Snowboarding losing popularity, while skiing heats up - Yahoo! Travel

Debate!!!!!


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## zk0ot (Nov 9, 2009)

seeing at the shop... more skis out the door than boards this year for sure


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## grafta (Dec 21, 2009)

Snowboarding sucks. Competition drinking is where it's at.


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## Extremo (Nov 6, 2008)

I'd have to agree with the article that skiing is easier. For every snowboarder throwing 5's in the park there are 15 skiers. Grandma's and 4 year olds are jumping off side hits everywhere, which would be impossible on a snowboard. 

People jumped all over snowboarding because it looks cooler. People are leaving it because they found out its difficult.


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## grafta (Dec 21, 2009)

Oh hey! There's a thread here on the original article by NY Times that fucking yahoo just regurgitated for us.

http://www.snowboardingforum.com/sn...4-ny-times-article-has-snowboarding-lost.html

Thread merge perhaps?


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## sponger606 (Nov 26, 2011)

Only for the hardcore!


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## backstop13 (Jun 27, 2012)

sponger606 said:


> Only for the hardcore!


Thread mergers or snowboarding??


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## Donutz (May 12, 2010)

backstop13 said:


> Thread mergers or snowboarding??


Yes!

10-bleepin'-char


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## grafta (Dec 21, 2009)

Sorry, I'm back from threadmergingforum.com

Did I miss anything?


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## schmitty34 (Dec 28, 2007)

I think part of it is that skiing picked up a little more "cool factor" once freestyle skiing became more prevalent. 

When I was younger, snowboarding seemed like the cool young sport with tricks and baggy pants while skiing was just older people doing boring turns with lame "tricks". The X Games came along and both snowboarding and skiing became even cooler. Now youngsters probably see both sports equally as cool.

I also think ski tech has made big leaps in the last several years that have evened out some of the advantages to snowboarding (i.e. riding switch and more powder float).


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## KIRKRIDER (Mar 18, 2008)

Consider also that the economy is what it is, and shops try to appeal more to adults with money, more likely skiers, then the younger crowd.


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## Extremo (Nov 6, 2008)

I've got to say, I see more turds on snowboards nowadays than I do skiing. You know the type, xl jacket, medium pants, glossy white boots, 1999 dragon goggles, backpack hanging below there ass, 19 inch stance, rear positive binding angle, jumping off the side of every jump, occasionally cartwheeling off the flat box. 

I hate to be so judgmental but if image and branding are a pillar of our industry, those turds are killing snowboarding.


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## Donutz (May 12, 2010)

Just to keep it in perspective, as long as the total numbers don't drop on the hills, the hills will stay in business. That's all I care about.


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## grafta (Dec 21, 2009)

If contemporary snowboarders all looked like this guy, there would be no way popularity would be down.










Who the fuck found this stock image for the article? I mean, it's cool and shit but wow :eusa_clap:


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## BurtonAvenger (Aug 14, 2007)

The stock image photos are the best! I should make an article about them. Also snowboarding has had a decline since 02 which was our greatest participation levels ever. Face it snowboarding is a rich persons sport that's catching up to skiing in terms of cost and our "rebel" image is now replaced with fat out of shape guys.


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## Extremo (Nov 6, 2008)

Donutz said:


> Just to keep it in perspective, as long as the total numbers don't drop on the hills, the hills will stay in business. That's all I care about.


I agree, I don't care if I'm the last snowboarder on the hill, as long as those lifts keep turning. 

But I do feel for snowboard companies. I'd hate to see small board companies go under and end up with ski companies subsidizing their snowboard divisions with limited product.


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## BoardWalk (Mar 22, 2011)

BurtonAvenger said:


> our "rebel" image is now replaced with fat out of shape guys.


Hey wait a minute...


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## sponger606 (Nov 26, 2011)

grafta said:


> Oh hey! There's a thread here on the original article by NY Times that fucking yahoo just regurgitated for us.
> 
> http://www.snowboardingforum.com/sn...4-ny-times-article-has-snowboarding-lost.html
> 
> Thread merge perhaps?


Sorry I should've searched before creating new thread. Is thread merging a new 'extreme sport'?


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## Soggysnow (Sep 11, 2012)

Extremo said:


> I've got to say, I see more turds on snowboards nowadays than I do skiing. You know the type, xl jacket, medium pants, glossy white boots, 1999 dragon goggles, backpack hanging below there ass, 19 inch stance, rear positive binding angle, jumping off the side of every jump, occasionally cartwheeling off the flat box.
> 
> I hate to be so judgmental but if image and branding are a pillar of our industry, those turds are killing snowboarding.



I think your version is out of fashion where I live. All I see are dark colours, browns, black green and camo and tighter pants. A lot of snowboarders don't want to be bright and flashy.

I agree with schmitty34 on why skiing is gaining more popularity. I actually think the progression of freestyle skiing is great  It will make everyone step up.


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## Extremo (Nov 6, 2008)

Soggysnow said:


> I think your version is out of fashion where I live. All I see are dark colours, browns, black green and camo and tighter pants. A lot of snowboarders don't want to be bright and flashy.
> 
> I agree with schmitty34 on why skiing is gaining more popularity. I actually think the progression of freestyle skiing is great  It will make everyone step up.


Don't get me wrong, we have the hipster/dirtbag kids too, which I look at as a different riding style than mine. I'm not talking about baggy vs hipster vs outdoorsy here. I'm talking about the completely clueless. The guy wearing a bandana with no hat and goggles or the guy wearing a medium sweatshirt and windpants at 10 degrees and gale force winds. Snowboarding has attracted all the dweebs which we used to associate with skiing. 

I'm seeing skiing attracting the affluent, more families who can bring their toddlers along, the competitors to trophy sports of racing and ski jumping, as well as the Bobby Brown-Tanner Hall freestyle park riding types. And it's because skiing is easier. It encompasses a broader portion of the spectrum than snowboarding does.


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## BurtonAvenger (Aug 14, 2007)

You realize those people you're mocking are the ones that keep this industry afloat.


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## ARSENALFAN (Apr 16, 2012)

BurtonAvenger said:


> You realize those people you're mocking are the ones that keep this industry afloat.



I feel better about my socioeconomic position. You just called me rich!:yahoo:


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## kevonderoka (Mar 5, 2012)

Hipsters these days, always doing whats cool. I predict that everyone is going to switch to trick skiing. I do admit it looks pretty cool though


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## Extremo (Nov 6, 2008)

BurtonAvenger said:


> You realize those people you're mocking are the ones that keep this industry afloat.


The kid with no gear and a 10 year old snowboard who buys 4 passes a season? 

What's keeping our industry afloat is the core group who get stoked on each seasons new gear and buy multiple season passes and talk about snowboarding all day with anyone who will listen. I personally see that group dwindling and turning into the former.


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## blunted_nose (Apr 26, 2012)

Kill the traitor.


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## BurtonAvenger (Aug 14, 2007)

Extremo said:


> The kid with no gear and a 10 year old snowboard who buys 4 passes a season?
> 
> What's keeping our industry afloat is the core group who get stoked on each seasons new gear and buy multiple season passes and talk about snowboarding all day with anyone who will listen. I personally see that group dwindling and turning into the former.


Season pass holders don't support snowboarding. It's the 5 day a year riders and families on vacation that either rent or ride old gear that keep it a float. Core = poor always has and always will.


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## blunted_nose (Apr 26, 2012)

BurtonAvenger said:


> Season pass holders don't support snowboarding. It's the 5 day a year riders and families on vacation that either rent or ride old gear that keep it a float. Core = poor always has and always will.


And i wouldn't have it any other way. In a weird sense, BA, i think i really like you, as a person.


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## Extremo (Nov 6, 2008)

BurtonAvenger said:


> Season pass holders don't support snowboarding. It's the 5 day a year riders and families on vacation that either rent or ride old gear that keep it a float. Core = poor always has and always will.


You've got to be kidding me. Please explain to me how the 4-5 a day rider with 10 year old gear supports the snowboard industry? I'm talking snowboard companies, not resorts. 

The issue here is snowboarding participation waning, while for skiing its up. And if you think core=poor, you're out of your mind. Poor means no snowboarding, which is what I'm seeing living in a factory town who's jobs are now heading down south and overseas.


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## BurtonAvenger (Aug 14, 2007)

Extremo said:


> You've got to be kidding me. Please explain to me how the 4-5 a day rider with 10 year old gear supports the snowboard industry? I'm talking snowboard companies, not resorts.
> 
> The issue here is snowboarding participation waning, while for skiing its up. And if you think core=poor, you're out of your mind. Poor means no snowboarding, which is what I'm seeing living in a factory town who's jobs are now heading down south and overseas.


What don't you get? 5 day a year riders = rentals, people on low end equipment, or the ones that upgrade as needed. Those are the ones that pay full pop for lift tickets.

Day ticket here are 110 bucks these people will buy a 5 pack of those at 500 bucks. Season pass early season here is 550 these are the people that ride every day meaning the resort actually loses money on them. 

Now if you look at gear purchases the season pass holders are less likely to pay full price for in line product as they have: pro form, buy last years, get a discount on gear from a shop for being local, or have a friend that can hook them up. 

Now Johnny Gapeass breaks binding goes into shop and pays full price. He might ride a 10 year old deck with what you feel are whack angles but this is the guy that pays full pop for everything when he needs it or as he needs it. 

It's a numbers game always has been. Why is it that you see more low mid level to entry level stuff on people than the $450 and up decks, $250 and up boots, and $200 range bindings? Simple the core group that has these boards targeted to them isn't the big spenders. 

In order to sustain healthy growth you need to:
1. Get them young and support them early on while building the stoke. The more stoked a kid is on snowboarding at a young age the more likely they are to stick with it through and through. (Something snowboarding is not good at as most ski schools start snowboarding at age 7, skis as early as age 2)
2. Keep costs prohibitive. (Once again pricepoints have jumped again due to China realizing they are the super power and demanding higher wages, rising cost of oil for shipping, and the general global climate)
3. Learning curve which snowboarding has the hardest of all the snow sliding sports except possibly ski bikes and snow skates. Turning on skis in 1 day typically 3 days for snowboarding. Looking at the cost of rentals, ticket, and other ancillary gear it's an investment just to try. 
4. Time. With all the people popping out babies and trying to make ends meet finding time is a luxury to these people. Sit in traffic there and back, stand in line, slide down the hill, pay money, etc. etc. or stay home fix the garage door, sleep, watch TV, etc. etc. We as a society have become more sedentary which also plays into it. 

Core has always = poor and are not the people that support the whole scheme of snowboarding. Companies are only part of the equation you need to look at the economy, rising costs, time, distance, and health to understand why snowboarding has peaked. Season of 02 was the highest recorded visit of snowboarders and it's been declining ever since. It'll have its rise up and down from here on out but it's pretty much hit the plateau. 

Now you can sit around and think your one sale of discount bindings or deck is keeping snowboarding alive or you can just realize you're the minority that doesn't make companies money. 

It's a numbers game entry level sticks and rental/demo decks that's where companies make their money.


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## JeffreyCH (Nov 21, 2009)

What I see happening is no one markets to people like me that take up the sport in middle age. There are a lot of us, people whose kids have grown, or at least are old enough to enjoy the hill also. My kid was born when I was 19, gave up skating at 20-21. Life happens, hard to do anything else when you work 50-60 hours a week to support a family. 

Skiing has always been marketed to the older crowd and now has the double whammy of being cool too. #1 skier dad can now put jr. on skies and jr. can be happy playing in the park. Win win for skiing, not good for snowboarding. It's time for snowboarding to grow up, do you really think I want a deck with cartoon boobies on it? Do you think I'm going to buy some ugly ass neon plaid pants that hang to my knees? Fuck no! If I wanted the skater punk look from the 80' I'd spray paint a big fuck you on my deck. (pretty sure I had that exact graphic on numerous skates) 

The whole underground, rebel, punk, core shit has to go. Look at any snowboard mag, it looks like a thrasher mag from the 80's. Look at skier mags, aimed right at people my age. WHY? Because we have the money, we buy the gear for our kids, we have the time to do things we enjoy. Go ahead and market to the hipster/core/radbromandude tweenies with no money, no vacation time, and forget skier dad who's footing the bill. Go ahead and make fun of us older folks because we know we are never going to be a pro, and just cruise groomers because it's fun. 

Oh well, I could go on but no one listens to me anyway...skate n destroy fools:bowdown:


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## mastershake (Jan 9, 2012)

JeffreyCH said:


> What I see happening is no one markets to people like me that take up the sport in middle age. There are a lot of us, people whose kids have grown, or at least are old enough to enjoy the hill also. My kid was born when I was 19, gave up skating at 20-21. Life happens, hard to do anything else when you work 50-60 hours a week to support a family.
> 
> Skiing has always been marketed to the older crowd and now has the double whammy of being cool too. #1 skier dad can now put jr. on skies and jr. can be happy playing in the park. Win win for skiing, not good for snowboarding. It's time for snowboarding to grow up, do you really think I want a deck with cartoon boobies on it? Do you think I'm going to buy some ugly ass neon plaid pants that hang to my knees? Fuck no! If I wanted the skater punk look from the 80' I'd spray paint a big fuck you on my deck. (pretty sure I had that exact graphic on numerous skates)
> 
> ...


in a way i agree with you, but you phrased it wrong. i don't think underground/rebel/punk has to go anywhere, people will always express themselves in whatever way they want.

the issue here is not for the "image" to go away, but for the image to expand and include older folks. A company like Never Summer who caters to more of an adult audience, is a good example. 

Other than that, I think this is a non-issue. I don't think that Snowboarding is "losing its edge" i think that skii has just gotten a slightly bigger edge than it had before and participation is basically leveling itself out. Instead of having mostly snowboarders out there, we now have an equal mix of participation. This is what happens when a sport starts to settle in. I don't think snowboarding is going anywhere. It is true that it can be quite expensive, but lift tickers are also expensive...the whole idea of a winter sport is expensive, especially for people like myself who don't live next to any major resorts.

What I hear from most people who want to learn snowboarding is that they don't want to buy any gear since they'll only use it 4 to 5 times a year. In a way it makes sense, but that's what's hurting the business. The casual observer who would like to learn, but doesn't want to invest in all of the gear beforehand and a big part of having fun while snowboarding is staying dry and warm (which costs a lot of money in gear).


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## Extremo (Nov 6, 2008)

BurtonAvenger said:


> What don't you get? 5 day a year riders = rentals, people on low end equipment, or the ones that upgrade as needed. Those are the ones that pay full pop for lift tickets.
> 
> Day ticket here are 110 bucks these people will buy a 5 pack of those at 500 bucks. Season pass early season here is 550 these are the people that ride every day meaning the resort actually loses money on them.
> 
> ...


Yeah, I understand this, but if Jonny Gapeass is the hope of the industry, snowboarding is in some trouble. 

When I was growing up (early to mid 90's) not one kid in my neighborhood didn't have a snowboard. We didn't ride resorts, we rode backyards, prep school hills, and golf courses. Now, nobody does. My son's going on 11 and he doesn't know anyone else in his grade that snowboards, affluent or not (quite a few ski). With all the second hand gear out there you'd think access to snowboarding would be easier than ever. You can get $100 board/binding/boot set ups all over craigslist. As a kid from a working class family who grew up on used (and relatively high priced) gear this would have been a dream. If poor = core, kids should be snowboarding every hill in the area, stealing street signs to jib up at the prep school. The spots that use to draw huge snowboard crowds every day after school when I was growing up now don't have a snowboarder in sight. Snowboard culture is suffering. And if Jonny Gapeass is going to be the face of the brand, I'm not sure too many people are going to follow.


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## Extremo (Nov 6, 2008)

mastershake said:


> in a way i agree with you, but you phrased it wrong. i don't think underground/rebel/punk has to go anywhere, people will always express themselves in whatever way they want.
> 
> the issue here is not for the "image" to go away, but for the image to expand and include older folks. A company like Never Summer who caters to more of an adult audience, is a good example.


Yup, snowboarding needs to be more inclusive. We need to keep attracting young kids who snowboard in their back yards as well as the winter sports enthusiasts looking for a new way to challenge themselves.


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## IdahoFreshies (Jul 9, 2011)

Extremo said:


> Yeah, I understand this, but if Jonny Gapeass is the hope of the industry, snowboarding is in some trouble.
> 
> When I was growing up (early to mid 90's) not one kid in my neighborhood didn't have a snowboard. We didn't ride resorts, we rode backyards, prep school hills, and golf courses. Now, nobody does. My son's going on 11 and he doesn't know anyone else in his grade that snowboards, affluent or not (quite a few ski). With all the second hand gear out there you'd think access to snowboarding would be easier than ever. You can get $100 board/binding/boot set ups all over craigslist. As a kid from a working class family who grew up on used (and relatively high priced) gear this would have been a dream. If poor = core, kids should be snowboarding every hill in the area, stealing street signs to jib up at the prep school. The spots that use to draw huge snowboard crowds every day after school when I was growing up now don't have a snowboarder in sight. Snowboard culture is suffering. And if Jonny Gapeass is going to be the face of the brand, I'm not sure too many people are going to follow.


I gotta say, you and BA are throwing out very compelling arguments from both sides here. 


But I think I have to agree with the dwindling snowboard percentage. Im seeing it in the form of less people taking snowboarding lessons, and hearing what the trends are doing from the managers at the ski school. Last week we had a school night (schools from the valley come up to the hill) and there were 65 beginner skiiers and 29 beginner snowboarders. My manager was saying how 2 or 3 years ago that number would have been flipped, and that snowboard, specifically lessons, just keep going down. 

I would also attribute that to snowboarding being harder, snowboarders start later (ski school starts at liek 3 or 4 where board school starts at 7) and parents are starting their kids out on skis because that is what the older generation does. And since skiing is cool too with those tall tees and twin tips and park riding kids are stoked to stick with it.


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## blunted_nose (Apr 26, 2012)

IdahoFreshies said:


> I gotta say, you and BA are throwing out very compelling arguments from both sides here.
> 
> 
> But I think I have to agree with the dwindling snowboard percentage. Im seeing it in the form of less people taking snowboarding lessons, and hearing what the trends are doing from the managers at the ski school. Last week we had a school night (schools from the valley come up to the hill) and there were 65 beginner skiiers and 29 beginner snowboarders. My manager was saying how 2 or 3 years ago that number would have been flipped, and that snowboard, specifically lessons, just keep going down.
> ...



Im fine with snowboarding going lower in numbers. What i mind is that big companies will stick around while smaller dubs will go under. Why dont we all start making our own snowboards? 

And theres always burton...


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## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

JeffreyCH said:


> What I see happening is no one markets to people like me that take up the sport in middle age. There are a lot of us, people whose kids have grown, or at least are old enough to enjoy the hill also. Go ahead and make fun of us older folks because we know we are never going to be a pro, and just cruise groomers because it's fun.
> 
> Oh well, I could go on but no one listens to me anyway...skate n destroy fools:bowdown:


There is a market for CORE geezers,...arcteryx, sled, cat, heli...but they are also getting pfs or have the cash and don't need it. However regular geezers....due to our experience of families and bills, we are rather savvy buyers. We may or not have more disposable income but I'd suspect we want functional quality more than bling shit. I'm a cheap sob and rarely buy anything new let alone at full msrp. However being a geezer does allow more choice via awareness/experience to pick, choose and spend less. This past summer I got the shit bc kit, all the tools and even an airbag...now I anticipate not spending much for quite a few years...beyond a season pass and could even forgo that and just hike and would only be buying gas. 

Anyway besides the economy, less time/money, sedentary lifestyle trend....there is also less snow. Thus the scarcity factor is in play. I could safely say that, if I lived 3 hours away from the hill I would only go a few times a year if at all. 

Snowboard vs skiers....it should be inclusive...with fatty twin free ski it's just a matter of preference. Skiers imho do have a better platform and equipment for all terrain and conditions except for deep poo but the fatties have nullified that snow condition. Yes skiing equip cost more and easier to learn but sb is less of an entry fee. Over the past 10 years I've seen both ebb and flow. Perhaps what is new is that us geezer boarders are getting older and there are more of us.

Thus we who take up the sport later are probably not going to buy highend shit because we won't use its capacity, but more so we value the experience of just being on the hill instead of having all the latest and greatest shit. At least for myself and the snowboard industry is not making much or any money off me.


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## Engage_mike (Oct 14, 2011)

I love this message board!! 

I think the article is headed in the correct direction when it speaks of the age range in which the sport got hot...Snowboarding is SOO young compared to the sport of skiing and I believe what keeps a sport (or what I usually am arguing about, a team loyalty) is time....
you figure with skiing there have been several generations now that have told themselves, " I am going to get my kids skiing with me on our future vacations." that 1 skier has now produced a flock of 3 kids that ski...as I now have my first child and have vowed to myself to get good enough on my snowboard to show her how to snowboard...(Although if she takes to skiing I'm cool with that as well :dunno: ) So its up to us 30 + year olds that are raising children to get them "STOKED" on the sport for it to continue to grow...its all in TIMES hands I believe (IF this was already spoken about I'm sorry if I missed the reply but I can't read every single reply)
...Mr. Avenger...I always love your replies...you are a hell of a writer and I love to see your rants and logic behind each one:thumbsup:


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## Donutz (May 12, 2010)

JeffreyCH said:


> Look at any snowboard mag, it looks like a thrasher mag from the 80's. Look at skier mags, aimed right at people my age. WHY? Because we have the money, we buy the gear for our kids, we have the time to do things we enjoy.


The comment about mags is an especially good one, and no-one's brought it up yet. I'm a bit of a magazine addict, but I only buy the snowboarding annual product showcase mags, because the rest of them are more about attitude than information. Haven't bought a ski mag in a long time, but they used to have useful articles like how-to's, personal anecdotes, yadda yadda.


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## Soggysnow (Sep 11, 2012)

I'm finding you are missing another core group in your discussion.

The seasonaires.

They work minimum wage for the resort, spend their money in bars-own by the resort and buy their latest snowboard gear that they are crazy stoked on in the stores owned by the resort.

Tell me the resorts are not making money from this group...their paychecks are recycled and overdrawn.
Im not even talking about people who have been around for a season, many of those people come, stay and make it their lives, have kids and will survive on their measly wage to go snowboarding.


I know this, because I am one. I definitely keep the industry alive, when visitor hear how happy and stoked I am, they get stoked too. They go to the restaurants I recommend and drink at the bars I mention. They listen when I tell them who the best bootfitters are and where to get their new jackets from....

I think everyone keeps the industry alive. If the kids weren't about making things 'cool' then new people wouldn't get into the sport. 
Once a skiier/snowboarder, hooked for life.


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## t21 (Dec 29, 2010)

If only someone can make snowboarding easier to learn we are good:laugh: but seriously though, i think that is where losing some of new riders in this great snow sport. Skiing is easier to learn 'nuff said. My two grandsons(age 4 and 2) skis because its that simple. I also rent them gears at the resort because i cannot find a used ones yet on craiglist:dunno:money well spent there. My niece (9 years old) skis, not sure if she wants to snowboard yet, she has friends that skis,no riders. Fat skis that are almost snowboard size are now more common on the market. One thing that skiing cannot take away from snowboarding in my opinion as a former skier is the 'FUN FACTOR'. It's just euphoric:thumbsup:


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## WasatchMan (Aug 30, 2011)

I've thought about picking up skiing just for the fact that it seems to be fitted better for the terrain I like to ride, well I at least want to _try_ it. it's just too expensive. i like the fact that you're able to navigate on the mountain a lot better. I would never drop snowboarding but skiing looks awesome.


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## ShreddinPow32 (Jan 21, 2013)

i blame the hipsters


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## BurtonAvenger (Aug 14, 2007)

Extremo said:


> Yeah, I understand this, but if Jonny Gapeass is the hope of the industry, snowboarding is in some trouble.
> 
> When I was growing up (early to mid 90's) not one kid in my neighborhood didn't have a snowboard. We didn't ride resorts, we rode backyards, prep school hills, and golf courses. Now, nobody does. My son's going on 11 and he doesn't know anyone else in his grade that snowboards, affluent or not (quite a few ski). With all the second hand gear out there you'd think access to snowboarding would be easier than ever. You can get $100 board/binding/boot set ups all over craigslist. As a kid from a working class family who grew up on used (and relatively high priced) gear this would have been a dream. If poor = core, kids should be snowboarding every hill in the area, stealing street signs to jib up at the prep school. The spots that use to draw huge snowboard crowds every day after school when I was growing up now don't have a snowboarder in sight. Snowboard culture is suffering. And if Jonny Gapeass is going to be the face of the brand, I'm not sure too many people are going to follow.


Well the industry is definitely in trouble as a whole companies are starting to just now address this, but it may be a bit too late.

Core = poor and that refers to the "core" market that companies try to market too with the cool graphics, edgy shit, blah blah blah. There's just not enough of the die hards to financially be feasible but this will always be the face of the brand. I mean how could a guy with gaper gap and a backpack make snowboarding look "cool". It's just that the first influences the latter and the latter finances snowboarding so the first can exist. It's a somewhat symbiotic relationship. 

Now being poor and snowboarding that's a different thing entirely. I do agree that there are cheaper set ups on craigslist than when you and I were kids. The problem I see here for kids in that age bracket is how fucking lazy they are. I used to live with a guy that had a 15 year old, that kid as defined by the state of CO something or other said that 4 in 5 of his classmates would die/get adult onset Diabetes by the time they were thirty and 3 in 5 are currently morbidly obese. It's just a health issue that I see with a vast majority of kids. 



blunted_nose said:


> Im fine with snowboarding going lower in numbers. What i mind is that big companies will stick around while smaller dubs will go under. Why dont we all start making our own snowboards?
> 
> And theres always burton...


Eh the snowboard industry is actually on a collision course for a culling of the herd. Some big companies will disappear, others will get bought up, some will die a slow agonizing death. This is where small and medium brands could thrive or just die. It's key in their marketing and how they prepare themselves for the next 3 years. 

Now if you're talking about the micro brands that buy a press of skibuilders.com they will always exist because they're hobbyists that just put too much thought into building a board. 



wrathfuldeity said:


> There is a market for CORE geezers,...arcteryx, sled, cat, heli...but they are also getting pfs or have the cash and don't need it. However regular geezers....due to our experience of families and bills, we are rather savvy buyers. We may or not have more disposable income but I'd suspect we want functional quality more than bling shit. I'm a cheap sob and rarely buy anything new let alone at full msrp. However being a geezer does allow more choice via awareness/experience to pick, choose and spend less. This past summer I got the shit bc kit, all the tools and even an airbag...now I anticipate not spending much for quite a few years...beyond a season pass and could even forgo that and just hike and would only be buying gas.
> 
> Anyway besides the economy, less time/money, sedentary lifestyle trend....there is also less snow. Thus the scarcity factor is in play. I could safely say that, if I lived 3 hours away from the hill I would only go a few times a year if at all.
> 
> ...


Your generation is the gnarliest in my perspective. You guys are foregoing resorts to head to the BC which is the fastest growing percentage of snowboarders and usually the one that gets overlooked by marketing groups that spout about our death. By not going to resorts you're not getting polled by their people. You also invest a huge chunk of cash initially then it's replace as needed because the gear is just built so much more beefy. 



Engage_mike said:


> I love this message board!!
> 
> I think the article is headed in the correct direction when it speaks of the age range in which the sport got hot...Snowboarding is SOO young compared to the sport of skiing and I believe what keeps a sport (or what I usually am arguing about, a team loyalty) is time....
> you figure with skiing there have been several generations now that have told themselves, " I am going to get my kids skiing with me on our future vacations." that 1 skier has now produced a flock of 3 kids that ski...as I now have my first child and have vowed to myself to get good enough on my snowboard to show her how to snowboard...(Although if she takes to skiing I'm cool with that as well :dunno: ) So its up to us 30 + year olds that are raising children to get them "STOKED" on the sport for it to continue to grow...its all in TIMES hands I believe (IF this was already spoken about I'm sorry if I missed the reply but I can't read every single reply)
> ...Mr. Avenger...I always love your replies...you are a hell of a writer and I love to see your rants and logic behind each one:thumbsup:


This pretty much sums it up as well. What we do have on our side is the Not Dads or Rad Dads depending on who you ask. This is Extremo's group. Guys in their mid 20's to mid to late 30's that were snowboarders in the golden age and die hards. As more of these guys pop out kids the more we'll see them pushing the child towards snowboarding cause that's what dad does. I figure it's at least 5 to 8 years now before we see the next cyclic growth from this group. 

The other reason we're all overlooking about skiing going up is that freeskiing is the new shit. It's just now developing its icons and hero's. Think about snowboarding say 97 to 03ish those years we had a lot of things going on. They're going through it as well right now and it's this growth factor with the "new" image that is bringing kids in. Basically it's not your dads version of skiing anymore. 



Soggysnow said:


> I'm finding you are missing another core group in your discussion.
> 
> The seasonaires.
> 
> ...


Seasonairies don't do shit to boost any economy, they're more of a blight than anything. They drop the "I'm local" card after 2 weeks of living here. Live off the cheapest food possible, don't tip, can barely afford to go out, blow their load on last years gear that's marked down 50 plus percent. If anything snow carnies are little more than a afterthought. 

Sorry but you're just nothing special.


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## pencap75 (Dec 10, 2008)

i could care less whether the kiddies like skiing vs snowboarding.
As long as there are enough people to keep the mountains open so I can continue to snowboard.

i just turned 38 and have been snowboarding since 17. Even if every snowboard company went out of business, i have collected enough gear over the decades that I can snowboard until i die. 

I have a 6month old son, and i don't care if he wants to be a skier in the future. I assume he will want to be like dad, unless snowboarding becomes completely gay in the future (sort of like what happened to in-line skating).


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## Toecutter (Oct 11, 2009)

JeffreyCH said:


> What I see happening is no one markets to people like me that take up the sport in middle age. There are a lot of us, people whose kids have grown, or at least are old enough to enjoy the hill also. My kid was born when I was 19, gave up skating at 20-21. Life happens, hard to do anything else when you work 50-60 hours a week to support a family.
> 
> Skiing has always been marketed to the older crowd and now has the double whammy of being cool too. #1 skier dad can now put jr. on skies and jr. can be happy playing in the park. Win win for skiing, not good for snowboarding. It's time for snowboarding to grow up, do you really think I want a deck with cartoon boobies on it? Do you think I'm going to buy some ugly ass neon plaid pants that hang to my knees? Fuck no! If I wanted the skater punk look from the 80' I'd spray paint a big fuck you on my deck. (pretty sure I had that exact graphic on numerous skates)
> 
> ...


Hear, hear!


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