# Help with Flows!?



## johnnymac (Jul 14, 2011)

Hey everyone I recently just purchased the 2012 flow m9se's. I am already very stressed out as the directions give no assistance on all the adjustments and I can't find any tutorial videos. However I am not even sure if my boots fit the bindings right. They advertised the large binding to fit up to size 11, but I can't tell if my size 11 boots are too big? If anyone can offer assistance on this it would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

Are the boots too big?


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## --bigtime-- (Sep 10, 2010)

Please watch this at least 4 times and then readjust your bindings. 
Larges should fit an 11 ok (i think). I rock a size 12 boot and buy the XL's tho.

How To set up the Flow Snowboarding M-series Bindings - YouTube


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## johnnymac (Jul 14, 2011)

I have seen that video before. Unfortunately the 2012 bindings have a different setup than the previous years models. This is why I am struggling so much to get everything adjusted.


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## --bigtime-- (Sep 10, 2010)

Oh wow, really? How much diff can it be???
As long as your highback is comfortable when you lock in, and your toes/heels are centered you should be fine. I assume they didn't eliminate the mini rachets all together, right?


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## johnnymac (Jul 14, 2011)

On one of the sides there are no longer mini ratchets but instead an adjustable screw system. Also I don't quite understand how to adjust the highback? How far forward should it push against my boot? I had to move the screws at the base to move the highback further back to allow my boot to be centered and I pulled out the front adjustment to allow for my massive boots. Other then these adjustments am I good to go? I'm still not sure how it will be easy to get my boots in and out of these flows and I rode flows all last year. Just upgraded for this season.


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## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

How hard would it be to change for XL's?


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## orangeandmaroon (Oct 11, 2011)

You're fine man, I wear 11's and my Lg Flow NXT-FSE's fit great. Just adjust the side without the mini ratchets so that when your boot is in they are a little off center, then when you tighten your mini ratchets it should center the binding right up. It just takes a little fiddling to get the right setup but you will find it.


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## johnnymac (Jul 14, 2011)

It wouldn't be a big deal to change to a larger size but I am also getting new boots in a smaller size. The 11's are too big for me I had too much toe room. Also I am looking for a lightweight boot that will compliment the flow bindings in the terrain park. Any help would be great especially on terrain park boot suggestions.


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## slyder (Jan 18, 2010)

The screws were featured on the several versions last year. I think they call them the gross adjusting screw or something. It is to reduce weight of having 4 ratchets

On some models the high back lever has a dial to adjust the forward lean on the high back. Not sure if your M9's do my NXT's do

Yours should have this screw too










Hard to tell from the pic but you might be able to loosen one more hole on the screw side and still be able to have the power strap centered


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## Inlay (Oct 29, 2011)

Return them while you can and get bindings from a better company. I had Flow bindings a year ago and they are terrible. They never fit boots correctly and are annoying to adjust. Get Union, Rome, or Burton bindings. They make some of the most durable and comfortable bindings out there. There's more companies, but I can't think off the top of my head right now.


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## johnnymac (Jul 14, 2011)

Inlay said:


> Return them while you can and get bindings from a better company. I had Flow bindings a year ago and they are terrible. They never fit boots correctly and are annoying to adjust. Get Union, Rome, or Burton bindings. They make some of the most durable and comfortable bindings out there. There's more companies, but I can't think off the top of my head right now.


I rode flows in the past two and to be honest every binding has its flaws. Flows are not terrible I will admit they are not the best binding out there but for someone who doesn't have access to bigger slopes as I snowboard in Michigan the rear entry feature does equal more runs. If I were to return these I would get the Raiden Zeros since I ride a combination of park and mountain. I like having everything lightweight without losing durability. If you have any specific suggestions on bindings that you feel are better than the raiden zeros from personal riding experience it would be appreciated.


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## WasatchMan (Aug 30, 2011)

If I could count the pow days my friend missed because he was constantly 'adjusting' his flows.... :thumbsdown:


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## Inlay (Oct 29, 2011)

johnnymac said:


> I rode flows in the past two and to be honest every binding has its flaws. Flows are not terrible I will admit they are not the best binding out there but for someone who doesn't have access to bigger slopes as I snowboard in Michigan the rear entry feature does equal more runs. If I were to return these I would get the Raiden Zeros since I ride a combination of park and mountain. I like having everything lightweight without losing durability. If you have any specific suggestions on bindings that you feel are better than the raiden zeros from personal riding experience it would be appreciated.


If you want something lightweight, get the Union Force or the Union Contact Pro. I forgot the weight rating of the Rome Targas, but I know they are very good all mountain bindings. The Union Force is more all mountain oriented. The Contact Pro is more freestyle, but good all mountain, and very light. Right now I am using the Rome 390's which are more park oriented but pretty good all mountain. They are my favorite bindings so far.


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## johnnymac (Jul 14, 2011)

I have heard a few bad reviews about the Union Forces and what would you say is the advantage of those over the raiden zeros?


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## slyder (Jan 18, 2010)

Upper midwest doesn't really see many POW days so as he said that was a consideration in his choice of bindings as it was for me. I got more runs on our 500 foot massive vertical hill. We ride what we have !!!!!


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## dreampow (Sep 26, 2011)

Flow bindings, some people seem to really like them. Others dislike them a lot.

I wouldn't buy them but have friends who swear by them. Personal preference. You will get them to fit, especially if you are buying smaller boots. Take them to a shop and have them show you. Once they show you, you will be able to adjust them properly yourself.


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## Inlay (Oct 29, 2011)

johnnymac said:


> I have heard a few bad reviews about the Union Forces and what would you say is the advantage of those over the raiden zeros?


The only thing I don't like about the Union Forces is the toe strap, but that's it. I haven't had any experience with the Raiden Zeros so I can't say much about those.


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## johnnymac (Jul 14, 2011)

I understand where your coming from on the frustration with the flows but as you just proved my point, every binding has its flaws. Yours is the toe strap. There is no perfect binding. I am interested in what will suit me best. I mainly ride groomed trails however I will be going to northstar in tahoe for a week this year. I enjoy jibs and ground tricks and hit a kicker every now and then. If im not in the park I'm cruising down the mountian. I had flows last year and am personally interested in trying a traditional binding since I haven't used one in years. However if I am going to go through the hassel of returning these I'd like to be sure ill be happy with my new bindings. I will most likely have the 32 lashed boots or pj walker edition with my 150 arbor westmark. I still think the raiden zeros would compliment these the best unless anyone has an argument against these bindings or knows of a better one


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## Inlay (Oct 29, 2011)

johnnymac said:


> I understand where your coming from on the frustration with the flows but as you just proved my point, every binding has its flaws. Yours is the toe strap. There is no perfect binding. I am interested in what will suit me best. I mainly ride groomed trails however I will be going to northstar in tahoe for a week this year. I enjoy jibs and ground tricks and hit a kicker every now and then. If im not in the park I'm cruising down the mountian. I had flows last year and am personally interested in trying a traditional binding since I haven't used one in years. However if I am going to go through the hassel of returning these I'd like to be sure ill be happy with my new bindings. I will most likely have the 32 lashed boots or pj walker edition with my 150 arbor westmark. I still think the raiden zeros would compliment these the best unless anyone has an argument against these bindings or knows of a better one


What boot size are you? Based on your riding style I really would highly recommend the Rome 390's. These are my favorite bindings so far and I have no complaints with them. They are very adjustable. You can adjust just about anything you can think of. With the Rome 390 Bosses, you can also adjust the canting angle.


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## johnnymac (Jul 14, 2011)

In the 32's I wear a 9.5 and I do not have anything personally against Rome 390's as I have never ridden them but I've heard a lot of complaints about the durability of the 390's on this forum. People say they break very easily and I definitely don't want to have to deal with fixing bindings with how much I've already spent this year on gear


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## Inlay (Oct 29, 2011)

johnnymac said:


> In the 32's I wear a 9.5 and I do not have anything personally against Rome 390's as I have never ridden them but I've heard a lot of complaints about the durability of the 390's on this forum. People say they break very easily and I definitely don't want to have to deal with fixing bindings with how much I've already spent this year on gear


Then people aren't taking care of their bindings because the 390's have METAL frame. I bought a new board and new boots this year, but I am STILL using my 2009 Rome 390's because they're still in perfect condition.


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## johnnymac (Jul 14, 2011)

Ok I appreciate you taking the time you've taken to inform me of this binding. Would you mind checking out the raiden zeros and comparing them to your knowledge of the rome 390's and seeing what you would choose if you had the choice. I value an educated opinion and since everyone has their own opinion its nice to have more than one person agree to it so I do not end up with a binding thats not right for me. Also how heavy are the rome 390's?


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## slyder (Jan 18, 2010)

Johnny I have also read the problems with the Rome's. 
Have you looked into Flux. Both my boys went from Flow's to Flux this year.
This will be my 2nd season in my Flow's and zero failures. Other binding I had was Bent Metal and I prefer the Flows

Good luck in your search I'm sure you would have enjoyed the Flows as much as you did last year


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## johnnymac (Jul 14, 2011)

Slyder I have not yet given up hope on the flows. I am still debating whether I should return them or not. It is a tough decision because every binding has its flaws. I just can't decide where I want to face these flaws. With flows I am facing an increase in weight and certain adjustment problems while on the slopes. As I am sure you know having ridden flows sometimes the drop down back just doesn't want to let your boot in.


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## slyder (Jan 18, 2010)

actually Johnny I have "no" issues with mine that is why I love them. I have Van Mantra which are a little wide in the footprint and can be snug but never any issues getting in or out.
For me in WI our season is short as are our runs. My kids often bail on me leaving me to ride solo, so I can slap in and get tons of runs. I wax my board every 3rd outing and as such I inspect my bindings and tighten any hardware if necessary. We had 3 pairs on boards last year and no issues that required anything but a 2 minute fix and not an problem after that.

I know you are going out west but, personally, I would buy bindings suited to your home hill. I can let you know how my kids like the Flux's once we start riding. But from all my homework, reviews, the local shop guy I trust and looking over the binding, I think you would be happy with Flux if you wanted to go back to a conventional binding.


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## Inlay (Oct 29, 2011)

johnnymac said:


> Slyder I have not yet given up hope on the flows. I am still debating whether I should return them or not. It is a tough decision because every binding has its flaws. I just can't decide where I want to face these flaws. With flows I am facing an increase in weight and certain adjustment problems while on the slopes. As I am sure you know having ridden flows sometimes the drop down back just doesn't want to let your boot in.


Based on what I've been reading, they Raiden and 390 are about the same except the Raidens are a bit softer in flex. So it's up to you to decide what flex you want on it. I don't think you can adjust cant angles on the Raiden either.


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## johnnymac (Jul 14, 2011)

Thank you for doing that research for me. Since I am not an expert on this would you mind filling me in on the advantages of the canting feature. Also is their a weight or durability difference between the two that would make a difference?


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## Inlay (Oct 29, 2011)

johnnymac said:


> Thank you for doing that research for me. Since I am not an expert on this would you mind filling me in on the advantages of the canting feature. Also is their a weight or durability difference between the two that would make a difference?


Canting makes it more comfortable to ride. It can also be better for your knees and foot because it's more anatomically correct. It can potentially make your turns more responsive and easier to initiate. I would say they are both quite durable. I read that the Raiden Zeros have a metal frame just like the 390's, so I would think that they are both about the same when it comes to durability. I also noticed that the toe strap on the Raidens didn't look that comfortable/effective. I like the 390's toe strap because it is a durable and stretchy material that conforms to the shape of your boot.


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## johnnymac (Jul 14, 2011)

Thank you for your help. Now comes the time to make the big decision. Unfortunately I am leaning towards traditional bindings which means ill have to pay shipping fees to return my flows. Not looking forward to that...


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## Justin (Jun 2, 2010)

i ride flows and traditionals. i don't have problems in pow with flow as you can just undo one side of the straps and buckle in like reg bindings. i personally like flows although i also like my rides. the big argument that i see against flows is canting. if you really want canting or are just curious go with traditional. if you are looking to keep money in pocket just keep the flows.


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## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

Flows have that rockered base so canting isn't as much of an issue. I'd still like to see them do like a 1.5 or something though.

If you want to go traditional comparable to the M9se's (you could just order the next size up) would be Flux TT30's, Raiden Zero's or Phantoms, 390's, K2 Uprises, or Burton Malavita's.

The toe strap on Raidens is money. Holds really well and conforms well.

There is more to durability than just your base frame. Technines used to explode, but they had metal frames. '09 390's didn't really have any widespread issues. Last years had some paint problems that weren't Rome's fault. And it is yet to be determined for production, but as of now this years have a little bit of weak seems in the ankle strap. Could just be the pair that BA got, but they started to show stressed seems like 2 weeks in or something.


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## johnnymac (Jul 14, 2011)

Nivek the size will no longer be an issue since I have decided to get a new boot as well. The ones I currently have are super heavy and are actually too big for my feet. So returning the flows for a different size wouldn't be necessary. Since you have tried many different bindings and know what your talking about what would you do in my situation? I ride in Michigan so very short runs and there is nothing hardcore in the terrain parks. I will either be getting the 32 walkers or lashed boots. Would you still say keep the flows for easier entry and exit of the bindings or would you say get a traditional binding, take a little more time, and have a little better hold?


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## racer357 (Feb 3, 2011)

DOOD, just keep the flows. They aren't the cheap flows, they were pbviously what you wanted or your wouldnt have bought them.

DOn't let these guys opinions keep you from riding what you like. I have NXT-fse's on my NS premier, and I am putting either M9's or Nxt Ase's on my new NS-SL.

Once the flows are set up, you never have to mess with them.


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## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

I had the choice of whatever set of Flows I wanted for 2012 and personally chose the M9se's. Keep 'em. When Flows are set up right they "hold" just as well as a two strap, except they don't "feel" tight on your foot. I like to call it the "more comfortable" effect.

Boots, you best be tryin these on first.


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## johnnymac (Jul 14, 2011)

I already tried on both the lashed and jp walkers. I really like them both


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## danm (Jan 16, 2010)

Agree with racer357 and Nivek, just get them setup perfectly and most importantly... MARK YOUR LADDER STRAPS so you can easily get back to that perfect setup if you need to unstrap traditionally!


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