# Union highback biting into heel



## stryk3z

the way union hiback rotations are fixed, I dont even rotate unless u use 18 degree+


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## ajavanzado

Yeah I was thinking about not even rotating. I know contacts are pretty soft and flexy anyway so just wanted to see if there was a consensus on their rotation mechanism. Meeeeehhhh


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## UNION_INHOUSE

ajavanzado said:


> Yeah I was thinking about not even rotating. I know contacts are pretty soft and flexy anyway so just wanted to see if there was a consensus on their rotation mechanism. Meeeeehhhh


Not sure if you noticed, but those highbacks are asymmetrical, meaning, there is less material on the inside of the highback. The reason is to minimize highback bite. 

Personally, I suggest keeping the highbacks in the middle holes. 

Thanks for the support.


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## stryk3z

Wow that was fast as hell response from union. Great support


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## zc1

UNION_INHOUSE said:


> Not sure if you noticed, but those highbacks are asymmetrical, meaning, there is less material on the inside of the highback. The reason is to minimize highback bite.
> 
> Personally, I suggest keeping the highbacks in the middle holes.
> 
> Thanks for the support.


This still doesn't address the problem for people who *do* rotate the highbacks. They are made to be rotated, but rotating them increases the likelihood of them digging into boots. That might be something worth looking into as far as future product improvements, rather than just suggesting that even though the highbacks can rotate, people should just not do it...

All of my Union bindings (Force, Contact, Flite Pro) do dig into my boots, but the wear has been minimal -- I credit the build quality of the boots for this. That said, I do have other bindings (Rome, Burton, Salomon, Now, Rossignol) with which this isn't an issue at all or is less pronounced (although the Now highbacks are fixed so they don't really count).


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## SGboarder

zc1 said:


> This still doesn't address the problem for people who *do* rotate the highbacks. They are made to be rotated,


No, they are not made to be rotated. While it is possible/an option, the highbacks are not meant/intended to be rotated.


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## zc1

How do you figure that? What are the the holes for, then, and why do their installation guides show how to do it?

https://www.unionbindingcompany.com/how-to-set-your-union-bindings

_Step 13: To adjust the highback, simply remove the screw on each side (two total) where the highback meets the ankle straps. If so desired, this allows the highback to rotate within the heelcup becoming parallel to the edge of the board.
_

The installation instructions don't support your suggestion, and UNION_INHOUSE, in his response, didn't even try to suggest that; all (s)he did was suggest keeping them in the centre holes.

I like Union bindings -- I have six pairs of them -- but I'm not paid by them or given free anything by them and I'm not going to defend a weak point in their design rather than suggesting that they try to improve it.


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## UNION_INHOUSE

zc1 said:


> How do you figure that? What are the the holes for, then, and why do their installation guides show how to do it?
> 
> https://www.unionbindingcompany.com/how-to-set-your-union-bindings
> 
> _Step 13: To adjust the highback, simply remove the screw on each side (two total) where the highback meets the ankle straps. If so desired, this allows the highback to rotate within the heelcup becoming parallel to the edge of the board.
> _
> 
> The installation instructions don't support your suggestion, and UNION_INHOUSE, in his response, didn't even try to suggest that; all (s)he did was suggest keeping them in the centre holes.
> 
> I like Union bindings -- I have six pairs of them -- but I'm not paid by them or given free anything by them and I'm not going to defend a weak point in their design rather than suggesting that they try to improve it.


I wrote that copy, so I'm well aware. I was only giving my personal 2 cents regarding HB rotation. Only one person at the company rotates, and none of our pros rotate either. 

I don't see us changing that design in the near future though, at least till we design a new baseplate. Right now our focus is on improving straps, hardware and overall durability. 

I appreciate the feedback guys.


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## Deacon

SGboarder said:


> No, they are not made to be rotated. While it is possible/an option, the highbacks are not meant/intended to be rotated.


:laughat2::laughat2::laughat2::laughat2:


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## SGboarder

Deacon said:


> :laughat2::laughat2::laughat2::laughat2:


I say a lot of funny things but that was not one of those things...


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## dave785

SGboarder said:


> I say a lot of funny things but that was not one of those things...


BS!!! You've never told a joke before. I don't think you've ever posted a smiley either... not even an "LOL"

>


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## Bataleon85

I'm not really sure what the benefit of rotating highbacks is anyway. Unless you plan on leaning into your corners really hard, this seems like a non-issue. Highbacks are meant for lateral heel edge control, not diagonal. 

Sent from my SM-G935T using Tapatalk


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## buller_scott

interesting to read the thoughts about Union in general, both on this forum, and on this thread. i must say, i've never been tempted by Union products - when they first came out and all the cool kids were rocking them here in Australia, i didn't see how they were doing anything better than say Burton, Ride, Rome, Now, or Flux [ESPECIALLY not Flux]. like, i get that you need the coolest brands to go with your too-long jacket [that you need to hike up on run-ins to jumps] and tight girlpants, but yeah....

that being said, how important is highback rotation to you? is it a deal breaker? personally, i feel that whether or not highback rotation will result in wear to your boots, has to a lot to do with the design of the binding itself, e.g.
* Now's ride great, but you can't even rotate the highback to begin with
* with my Flux DS, it's either you rotate the highback as best you can, or the forward lean as best you can - can't really have both, IMO
* my Malavitas are near perfect, when it comes to setting your highback rotation without any adverse effects on your boots
* my K2 Liens were DEFINITELY designed with highback rotation in mind - hell, if i rotated so that the high back was in line with my angles [and not the edge of the board], i reckon the leftover tabs on the bottom of the highback might actually dig into my boots. 

do the bindings ride fine WITHOUT highback rotation, in spite of rotation ability being built into the bindings? if so, sweet! if you find yourself missing the rotation, turf 'em, and get something from a brand who don't recommend you use don't use don't not use locktite on your bindings


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## Shredad64

I slept on my original post last nights night. The more I think of this issue the more it pisses me off. This isn’t right. You sell to market a product and provide directions to move the high backs yet you state their not suppose to be moved! That’s absurd. To me this is a cover up for a crappy design you know about but are not addressing. I spend on me and my kids well over $5K annually on new equipment every year because we love the sport. You are the only company that has ever left a bad taste in my mouth in the industry. I work hard for my money and spend it carefully after a lot of research on everything I buy. 

Union I’d like to be contacted and this matter addressed by replacing the defective product. This is my second attempt. You will know the shop I bought these, well known. They will have purchase records confirming. I either want these replaced with a non defective product or a credit at the shop.


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## Rip154

I tried rotating the highback too first time I got mine, but quickly figured out that it would be a problem, so just let it be centered. With the Contact Pro that worked, but don't think I would have done that with a stiffer binding with the angles I ride.


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## buller_scott

Shredad64 said:


> Union I’d like to be contacted and this matter addressed by replacing the defective product. This is my *second* attempt. You will know the shop I bought these, well known. They will have purchase records confirming. I either want these replaced with a non defective product or a credit at the shop.


ooh, shots have been fired!

*easiest = write off the measly cost of a pair of bindings, give the gent some store credit, be done with the headache / avoid bad reviews and word of mouth [you don't want to gamble on what kind of day an irate customer has had]. retain the possibility of return custom [thanks to good service], when the design is sorted out down the track. potentially add his kids [plus more] to customer base in future.
* moderate = replace the bindings, knowing that the defect is in the design itself, and get ready for round two! 
* i want to dance / let's put WAY too much value on one single item we've sold, that is realistically NOTHING to us = ignore / stall / push back on a customer who doesn't seem like he's gonna let this lie. not putting up new bindings / credit IS worth the email barrage + relentless negative reviews + bad word of mouth + losing a customer [and every potential customer that is in his social group] for life. 

i'm intrigued to see how this will play out.


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## Salt Shaker

This is a common problem for high back rotation among many brands. Not to mention the high back will not seat well in the heel loop once rotated. Another negative to rotating is the highback will no longer make full contact with the boot, especially if the highback is narrow. 

Burton seems to have a slightly better solution for this adjustment from what I have seen.

I rotated my highbacks for years so I could run more forward lean. If I didn't rotate them the medial portion of the highback would create a pressure point on my leg. Last winter was the first time I did not rotate them because I decreased my angles (12/-12) and I eased up on forward lean. Also, many highbacks are designed to flex more at the top and some are pre-rotated slightly. I rode Contact Pros, Forces, and 390 Bosses un-rotated without issue. 

If you really like them rotated, you can trim off the portion of the highback that is digging into the boot. Get out the Dremel and remove material sparingly. I did this to a pair of Unions, links to pics below http://s651.photobucket.com/user/jaredpabis/media/IMAG2207_zpsac2nb4d4.jpg.html
http://s651.photobucket.com/user/jaredpabis/media/IMAG2209_zpsaiqhcrnq.jpg.html


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## Tatanka Head




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## Tatanka Head

I don't want to get between you and the company. Fight your fight. They have always treated me well, both directly and through their European supplier (C3, I think. It was years ago). Union bindings on all my boards, minus the split. I'd back channel them. Open forum threats/conversations might not be the most effective. Then again, what do I know?

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3003 using Tapatalk


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## Manicmouse

Union aren't going to dig themselves into a hole by admitting liability in this thread. They've already probably said too much and been too honest. Even though you might have a very good case there is no benefit to Union here whether they fight or give you new gear. Either way they set an expectation that's probably bad for their business. Good PR is good PR though 

It's a pity it wasn't resolved quietly at the time you first complained before you felt the need to go to the forums. I can't blame you for that, your issue sounds very annoying!

Just yesterday I had a good warranty experience with Union when they accepted a warranty claim for a broken heel cup. I didn't have a proper receipt, just a web order email without product details. The website had closed and there was no way I'd get actual proof of purchase. They took my photos at face value and are sending over new heel cups from the regional distributor. I'm pretty happy with that.

I hope you get your issue sorted out!


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## freshy

Shredad64 said:


> They had an opportunity to do the right thing and didn’t. Plus Union acted like there was not an issue, when there clearly was. They lied to me and did nothing. Now I find out by reading this thread others have had the same issue and in fact Union has interjected here acknowledging the issue. Yea, I’m pissed!


Dude, get over it. Weird how you feel so entitled. Unless it was a manufacturing defect just chalk it up to you now know Union bindings do not work with your choice of gear placement and buy whatever else. To think they owe you new bindings and a new pair of boots really makes me laugh.


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## drblast

If you want to recoup some of your loss and you can pick the Contact Pros out of the trash I'll buy them from you.


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## freshy

Guess it was a little harsh...Just kinda how you came across to me. Seems like getting upset about it will yield nothing. I get your pissed that you bought a product that is supposed to do something that is not recommended to do by the rep. It's the whole they owe you that triggered me. 

Don't read too much into this either. I'm just bored, like my Unions and don't rotate highbacks ever because it's uncomfortable. Not trying to piss you off, just offer my opinion.


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## drblast

Well boo, a shame they're gone.

Might have been a good idea to keep them around to use as evidence in the upcoming lawsuit.


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## Manicmouse

Don't tell anyone but I didn't know rotating highbacks was a thing lol

It just never occurred to me?!


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## Manicmouse

Highbacks are so 1991. Take those off for that surfy feeling...


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## freshy

Manicmouse said:


> Highbacks are so 1991. Take those off for that surfy feeling...


Actually no highbacks are 1991


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## Manicmouse

freshy said:


> Manicmouse said:
> 
> 
> 
> Highbacks are so 1991. Take those off for that surfy feeling...
> 
> 
> 
> Actually no highbacks are 1991
Click to expand...

Okay Mr Literal


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## Shredad64

So here’s the deal. I deleted my well justified rant here. I know, boooo. It just wasn’t sitting well with me. I despise our country’s leaderships behavior and actions online. To be honest, I didn’t see much difference in mine. I’m not ok with that. So apologies all.

So having said that. Union, you know you have a problem in your design. ! We’ll be chatting offline.....

Look people who have this issue. You paid hard earned $$$ for a product that is poorly designed. Furthermore, essentially Union admits the high backs are not meant to be turned, yet they provide instructions. This should raise eyebrows across the industry. 

Make noise, call, email and let them know of the issue and you want something done about it. Unless you do it will not change. 

Winter is coming! Enjoy the season shredders.


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## buller_scott

hey Shreddad,

keep pushing. you are a customer, end of - i feel you deserve what you are asking for, in this instance. 

don't listen to the peeps who are telling you to let it go, and draw from your savings account to purchase another set of bindings:
--- i once had a "boss" who told me that the corporate way was "stop bitching - when the heat comes, bend over and take it in the ar5e like a MAN". - when standing up for one's self in the office environment.

in this context - don't PAY someone to pork you unwillingly in the bum, like some peeps here might be suggesting. 

anywhoo, back on topic - i have a new appreciation for my Vitas - they have TRUE highback rotation-ability.

i have yet to buy Romes, i've got a pair of k2 AT's [which are good for parallel-to-board, also]... other than that, i dunno. even my beloved flux doesnt do highback rotation right [i think the design of the DS is the best demonstration of this shortcoming - perfect binding, with highbacks that fold]

for some peeps with f8cked feet and legs, highback rotation is kinda important.

bleh. it's pretty simple. you're a customer who doesn't feel good about the product. anyone want to guess how well that would go down at a disney resort? or are we looking at multiple $350 ar5e-#uckings here, too?


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## PalmerFreak

I had the same problem with a pair of Union T. Rice's last year. It was my first ever pair of strap bindings after riding Flow's for almost 15 years. I decided I didn't like the T. Rice's so I sold them but it was mostly because I hated strapping in (I'm old) after having step-in's for so long. The biting-into-the-boot issue was part of the reason I went back to Flow's but if I would have liked the bindings I probably would have just put up with it.

I do agree that if the bindings have the option to rotate the highbacks that it should actually work. My Flow's rotate with no problems at all.


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## Shredad64

Thanks for the words Bueller. I hear ya and I just might give Union a call. ?


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## Horhey Gonzalas

Shredad64 said:


> Thanks for the words Bueller. I hear ya and I just might give Union a call. ?


Why wouldn't you call the company?


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