# Union or Burton



## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

The Cartles are going to be better than both in my opinion.


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## Thad Osprey (Feb 18, 2009)

Chiming is as a neutral responder. (Nivek is clearly not a union fan as evidenced from his various posts and I respect his opinion which he is entitled. But his enthusiasm in making his opinion known on this forum does color many opinion posts which tend to make for either bitchy or very politicized discussions). 

That said, all binding options you mentioned are solid options. Union gets a lot of slack for churning out more or less the same product every year, apart from small adjustments to their strap or ratchets. But the Force and the Force MC are good solid durable all round bindings and enjoy good popularity. The Force MC is much lighter than the Force and is not not much stiffer actually, just that lightness costs more. Own both and 60+ days on each.

Burton is always going to be an interesting animal in Forums with plenty of love and hate. They are "over-rated" by some, yet lots also feel their bindings are under-rated and are not given a fair shot or view. Ridden the cartels before (10+ days to give it a fair shot) and I prefer the Unions. But cartels are very light and very responsive, and I dont think you could go wrong with this as well. 

Ride fast and hit jumps works good with all of them (my fave is the Force MC though).


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## Workman (Jul 14, 2011)

Do what I'm doing, test it out at a shop with your boot. Since there's so much back n forth on Cartels vs Forces vs 390 Bosses I've come to the conclusion that all bindings are great and you probably won't feel let down by any of them but that the difference would be which binding would work best with YOUR setup. So bring your boot (possibly your board as well) into your local shop n strap it in to get an idea of the fit (also a great chance to see which ratchets you like 1st hand!).
Hope that helps, good luck on choosing a set


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## readimag (Aug 10, 2011)

^ That is kind of what I did, during the summer I work in the south so the board shops are far away. I just found a place with k2 formulas, ride deltas, 390 boss, and some flux dmcc went in the store with my board and boots. They were more then happy to put them on my board for me and I picked up some ride deltas and k2 formulas from them for my parkstar and sl. I have never had a problem with board shops helping me out I just call and let them know I am coming.


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## cenzo (Sep 8, 2011)

*Thanks*

Awesome guys, really helpful. I am just going to take my boots and board to a local shop that sells union and burton. Thanks again.


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## Milo303 (Apr 6, 2009)

Don't forget K2 Auto Uprise or other brands.


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## CheeseForSteeze (May 11, 2011)

The Force SL and MC are different animals than the Force and not really comprable to the Cartels, both in price point, purpose and tech. The SL and MC are carbon injected baseplates that are seriously cored out and share the same highback design. The MC has a carbon composite highback and toe ramps for further weight reduction and custom milled aluminum hardware. The MC doesn't have quick adjust tooless forward lean and uses a different design to save weight. I think the MC is a bit overboard unless you are serious into saving weight. The Force SL gets you all the same tech and design but minus the super exotic materials.

The Cartels are going to have way better toe-caps. This is evidenced by many Union riders swapping their toe straps for Burton toe caps. I've ridden cartels on numerous decks and they do what a binding should and do it well. The one thing I do like about Burton is when they integrate some new feature into their stuff, they do it in a way that doesn't complicated the overall design or make it seem tacked-on. They do well with bindings. Check out the Malavita Restricted, too if you like a stiffer binding.


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## phony_stark (Jul 2, 2011)

Cheese is right. If you're interested in the Cartel, you'd, most likely be comparing it to the Force in price point. 

Between the Force and Cartel, you can't really go wrong with either.


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## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

Meh, I don't feel that way. I've owned SL's. I felt like even they were less responsive than Cartels. The highbacks have more torsional give than the Cartel highback so when driving through a turn it can give depending on where you are in the turn and your initiation. I felt like SL's match up better to the Malavita's. Maybe the Atlas will compare better to the Cartel. The Force is touted as a do everyting binding and sits right about there. The Cartel is proposed as the same, but fits better in an all mountain freestyle setting. Its a bit stiff for the average park rider, better for hard charging jumpers and pipe jocks.


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## CheeseForSteeze (May 11, 2011)

Union has some seriously tapered highbacks so they will flex torsionally. Rotating them helps so that driving back on the heels it gets carried directly back into the pocket of the highback rather than against the edge.

The thought the SL's and regular Forces felt pretty similar to each other, the SL's giving a bit more power transmission through the baseplates. I can't really compare them to the Cartels because I rode them on different boards but I think as strictly the binding to boot fit, the Cartel easily wins.

I don't hate Union, they have solid baseplates and highbacks but their ergos just suck and I've had problems hardware and disc durability. If they would work out their straps (the new toe caps look even worse than the old ones, I'll get to try them in a few weeks here), ratchets and go to a non 2 channel disc, I would be on them as a good but not great choice.


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## phony_stark (Jul 2, 2011)

Nivek said:


> Meh, I don't feel that way. I've owned SL's. I felt like even they were less responsive than Cartels. The highbacks have more torsional give than the Cartel highback so when driving through a turn it can give depending on where you are in the turn and your initiation. I felt like SL's match up better to the Malavita's. Maybe the Atlas will compare better to the Cartel. The Force is touted as a do everyting binding and sits right about there. The Cartel is proposed as the same, but fits better in an all mountain freestyle setting. Its a bit stiff for the average park rider, better for hard charging jumpers and pipe jocks.


What year were your SL's?


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## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

'10s. I've heard they stiffened it up for '11, but even hand flexing the 11's vs the Cartels they are noticably easier to twist. For '12 they did get a redesign so it may be different now, but Union highbacks are characteristically softer than most in twist. Fine for park, not great for all mountain. Even when I was still a Union fan I rarely recommended them for anything other than Park and Jib.


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## phony_stark (Jul 2, 2011)

Nivek said:


> .....but even hand flexing the 11's vs the Cartels they are noticably easier to twist. For '12 they did get a redesign so it may be different now, but Union highbacks are characteristically softer than most in twist. Fine for park, not great for all mountain. Even when I was still a Union fan I rarely recommended them for anything other than Park and Jib.


.......okay


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## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

phony_stark said:


> .......okay


Yes? Do you have something to say? Its the internet... say it. Why am I posting if they aren't what I owned? I can. And just by looking at them (in person), and knowing the material they are made of, I know that they will not offer the same off-center support as Cartels. The Cartel highback is rock solid and uber supportive. Unions just aren't. A bad thing? Not always, they're market doesn't ask for it.


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