# Regular jump or ollie ?



## Guest (Nov 9, 2007)

First of all hello to everyone. I've been snowboarding for some time and I learned to jump by myself so I learned it in the way that you lift both legs at the same time off the ground, just like you would jump without the snowboard. Then I've heard about snowboarding ollie which you perform similarly to skateboard ollie, lifting front foot first and then the back one. So I was wondering whats better, which lets you jump higher ? When going for a jump I'm now used to jump with pulling both knees at the same time, should I change my habit ? Thanks.


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## Snowjoe (Jul 3, 2007)

I use both ways for different things. Doing straight airs on smaller terrain or popping up over little obstacles I tend to ollie it like a skateboard. Anything with a rotation I pop off of both feet equally as often if you ollie into a spin you'll land pretty back seat.

I wont pop two footed off of a flat base either, always set the edge to spin off and give some resistance.


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## PaoloSmythe (Aug 19, 2007)

I always use the ollie effect; that way your jump is propelled upwards more from longitundinal elasticity of the snowboard and less from your muscular energetic expenditure... etc yibble yibble yibble

you jump higher and get less tired. for sure, if you wanna get tricky such as by adding rotations etc, then you need to compromise this need for launch, with the need to maintain stability, but this would just require a more 'mellow' ollie.


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## Snowjoe (Jul 3, 2007)

The launch for a spin is a different movement to an ollie completely. You shouldn't need much pop at all to do it if the jump is made properly, just with enough speed to find the landing. Just a small little pop off both feet at the same time rather than lifting the nose. Popping with both feet keeps you more level throughout the spin. If you do an ollie movement you lose all resistance off of most of your edge to spin off making the spin really hard to rotate.


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## PaoloSmythe (Aug 19, 2007)

i am not about to say you are incorrect Joe, but at the same time i do not agree. 

i guess it might be down to a lack of comprehension on my part, but i fail to see how you could enjoy any 'pop' at all, unless you have utilised the ollie properties of your board. (are we simply stumbling over jargon here?)

it is the elastic spring that produces the 'pop' of an ollie and a jump alike; otherwise, you are simply riding up the transition of a jump and letting your inertia of an upward trajectory break the hold of gravity, to get you into the air. from then, any leg raising is simply a tuck, so you can apply a grab.

i am by no means a human flea, but those little 'stunts' i have done, have always used pop and usually are flat based (or very slight toe edge bite) on lauching, with the upper body making the rotation.


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## Guest (Nov 9, 2007)

Thanks people. For the spins, I'm not sure what way is better because I'm used to doing them lifting feet at the same time, but it might be better to do it as if you are starting an ollie, but in those moment when the nose is up and tail is lifting of the ground you start your spin. Similar to skate bs or fs 180/360 ollie.


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## Snowjoe (Jul 3, 2007)

It depends. Sometimes by pop I didn't mean pop like out of an ollie just like a little hop, not getting any upwards force from the board at all. You shouldnt need to if you hit it at the right speed on a decent jump.

You also can get a different type of pop caused by you loading the board up and it rebounding upwards. Have you seen how people will often "carve" their way into a jump. If you go in aggressively like this you load up the board along the sidecut with pressure causing the board to bend, when you then do the little hop it unloads the board which rebounds back to its original shape giving you some uplift.

I kinda find it hard to explain on the internet, but next time your riding and your carving hard in between the turns just hop upwards and you'll feel the board provide you with some lift.

Edit: In fact I just looked it up in the CASI manual aswell and they're all about popping the rotation off of BOTH feet at the same time. 



shc89 said:


> Thanks people. For the spins, I'm not sure what way is better because I'm used to doing them lifting feet at the same time, but it might be better to do it as if you are starting an ollie, but in those moment when the nose is up and tail is lifting of the ground you start your spin. Similar to skate bs or fs 180/360 ollie.


When you do that you lose your set edge in the snow. Once you lose the set edge you lose any resistance to start your rotation against. Thats why you shouldnt ollie into the spin. It would mean your trying to start your spin whilst already airborne. Stand up and try it now. Start your spin with your feet on the floor then jump upwards and start the spin in the air. You'll feel which one is easier.


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## Guest (Nov 9, 2007)

Looks like this winter I'm learning to jump from the start. I'm pretty stable, I always jump flat based, or as you say a bit to the toe edge and also land flat for more stability. The only thing that I never did was pop, I did it all by my muscles. This winter I'm learning the real ollie. 
This jump with both feet was very easy for me, is ollie much more difficult ? I was skating for some time and was pretty good with ollieing, and it looks to me that it's harder to ollie with a skate than with a board, so I hope there won't be much problems.


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## Guest (Nov 9, 2007)

Paolo -

I think what they are trying to say is jumping with the same amount of force off of both feet at the same time (not just merely lifting legs) versus springing off the tail and leaning forward and leveling out (ollie).

Both give upwards force with the ollie being more effective. The compromise is the lack of rotational force... i think it would be hard to dig in for a spin and spring off the tail....


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## Guest (Nov 9, 2007)

JiveTalkingRobot, you're right and I think Paolo got what we mean also. Snowjoe, you didn't totally get what I meant. I wasn't thinking about ollieing and then starting your spin, I thought about it as a fluid motion where you would first turn your shoulders in the opposite direction starting turning shoulders first and IN THE SAME TIME popping a board of the ground. Very similar how skaters do BS/FS 180/360. Hope you know get what I mean...?



''Backside 180 by Devun Walsh

...

2. Approach the jump with the same amount of speed you’ve hit it with before, and as you get to the lip of the jump, *spring off the toeside edge of your tail*.''
Backside 180 by Devun Walsh | howto | Transworld Snowboarding

That's what I meant, he actually does do a real ollie when doing bs but just when the board is popping of the ground the rotation is making it pop of the side of the tail and creates rotation.


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## Snowjoe (Jul 3, 2007)

shc89 said:


> JiveTalkingRobot, you're right and I think Paolo got what we mean also. Snowjoe, you didn't totally get what I meant. I wasn't thinking about ollieing and then starting your spin, I thought about it as a fluid motion where you would first turn your shoulders in the opposite direction starting turning shoulders first and IN THE SAME TIME popping a board of the ground. Very similar how skaters do BS/FS 180/360. Hope you know get what I mean...?


It has the same effect though, because when you spin you need the edge set in the snow, if you ollie you lose the set edge and have to resistance to spin against. Yes you use your upper body but you need the resistance of the edge on snow to get enough power into the spin.


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## Guest (Nov 9, 2007)

Well the ollie technique for rotations is also used, and very much by pro's as from what I've found, but I might be harder than the both feet up way because of the cork. Still I'd say when you master doing rotations with ollie it will look and feel much better, because when you spring off that edge of the tail it give an extra 'bounce' and you'll probably go higher.


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## Snowjoe (Jul 3, 2007)

shc89 said:


> Well the ollie technique for rotations is also used, and very much by pro's as from what I've found, but I might be harder than the both feet up way because of the cork. Still I'd say when you master doing rotations with ollie it will look and feel much better, because when you spring off that edge of the tail it give an extra 'bounce' and you'll probably go higher.


Edit: Ahh screw it lol. Its so hard to explain on the internet.


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## Guest (Nov 9, 2007)

Agreed. Last year I used learned the bs 180 without the pop, and this year I'll be incorporating it with ollie. As you said, timing will probably be a little problem. I also read that just before the jump, when doing backside 180, transfer your weight on to the toes, and spring off from your toes, not flat based. Might be good to try.


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## PaoloSmythe (Aug 19, 2007)

all good stuff in here. i fess tho, not being freestyle orientated, i have never actually tried a 360. i defo have the 180s sussed tho; going both ways, grabbed and tweaked and when needed, with ollie pop.

for me the main obstacle to over come, was to get straight in my mind, all of the seperate elements of the jump; the speed and approach, the direction up the transition, the edge and pop and the application of adequate shoulder movement to acquire the perfect amount of rotation, the lifting of the knees to realise and tweak a grab.

for sure enuff speed negates the need to go for ollie pop, but there seems to be some confusion over the cause of 'corkedness'; 

from what i have read, the application of a carved turn (on the transition) to establish (too much) edge bite can cause invertion during the spin. over enthusiastic ollying will potentially cause a back flip no? as said tho, this is what has been read; i have only ever cared for 180s thus far, something that 'pros' don't necessarily consider to be a rotation at all, but a 'mid air turn'!

in any event, when someone quotes Walsh as saying 'take off from the toe edge of your rear foot', it is tuff to argue that you should be leaping from both feet at the same time.


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## Dcp584 (Sep 10, 2007)

Snowolf said:


> I do BS spins much easier than FS. mainly as a result of naturally closing my upper body is a BS spin whereas, I tend to open up too much going FS; a habit I am trying to break. Definitely, pop off your toes when going BS, it makes it much easier and I think it looks smoother too. A great way to practice doing this to get the feel, is jump something where you can kind of traverse the run a bit on your toe edge. If you are doing a 180, just remember to land so you are on your heel edge (if traversing).


I have that same problem. Plus breaking my arm trying frontside 3's has left me a little apprehensive about my front side spins. But I'm getting them worked out this year.


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## Dcp584 (Sep 10, 2007)

Snowolf said:


> I do BS spins much easier than FS. mainly as a result of naturally closing my upper body is a BS spin whereas, I tend to open up too much going FS; a habit I am trying to break. Definitely, pop off your toes when going BS, it makes it much easier and I think it looks smoother too. A great way to practice doing this to get the feel, is jump something where you can kind of traverse the run a bit on your toe edge. If you are doing a 180, just remember to land so you are on your heel edge (if traversing).


I have that same problem. Plus breaking my arm trying frontside 3's has left me a little apprehensive about my front side spins. But I'm getting them worked out this year.


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## Guest (Nov 11, 2007)

Sure bs is much easier than fs for me too, whether its snowboard or skateboard. As snowolf said, I also feel much more natural rotating bs, but much bigger problem for me is switch stance. I was skateboarding before and I also had big problems with switch, no way I could ride a board that way. So many times I'd do a bs 180 very good until that last point when you have to ride away after impact. I would often fall when doing it from higher places. I never practiced riding in switch stance which is probably my biggest error. Altough I know some people who are naturally good in both stances. A real blessing when it comes to skateboarding or snowboarding. Very lucky guys.


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## Guest (Nov 12, 2007)

Altough it's the least thing I'd like to do with a snowboard, I'll go practice my switch this winter. Thanks for all the help people.


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## lisevolution (Sep 20, 2007)

I practice my switch riding basically only when I'm with people that I can't charge with. If I'm being pushed switch doesn't happen, if I'm with my gf and her friends and trying to teach her how to ride properly than I practice switch. The thing that holds me back the most in terms of switch is my forward stance angles. I'm gonna move to a slight duck this season and see if I can get comfortable that way again. It's been a while now!


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## PaoloSmythe (Aug 19, 2007)

*lise *- for sure the single best thing you can do to improve your switch riding, is ducking your feet out.

even if your rear leg is at zero degrees, moving it to even just minus 3 or 6, things get so much easier.

i used to ride something like +21 and 0.... now if i recall, i am at 15 and -12 and loving it in both directions!

the best time for practicing it tho, is when conditions aren't so great and you and 'your gang' are kinda limited to the best one or two runs on the hill; then y'all just do laps. alternating runs between switch with regular. you get to kinda race each other, can always find each other, and you get an appreciation of how much slower your switch is behind your regular riding.... it is funny when you bomb it riding regular past your chums who are stuttering switch.... and then they can do the same to you (until your switch is better than their regular! rah!!!)


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## Snowjoe (Jul 3, 2007)

Its so good once you can actually be comfortable in switch too. The only things I kinda struggle with in switch now are big bumps and carving. But I just spent a whole week riding switch, in fact I switch my riding up all the time just because I quite like doing it.


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## PaoloSmythe (Aug 19, 2007)

my _switch ambition_ for this season is jumping

this easter i managed black powder runs, which was super sweet altho still exhausting and foot achy

switch B1s must feel really mellow i reckon!


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## Snowjoe (Jul 3, 2007)

PaoloSmythe said:


> my _switch ambition_ for this season is jumping
> 
> this easter i managed black powder runs, which was super sweet altho still exhausting and foot achy
> 
> switch B1s must feel really mellow i reckon!


By far one of the greatest tricks in the history of anything. 

180's will always hold a special place in my heart.


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## lisevolution (Sep 20, 2007)

I'm going up this weekend if it stays cool here on the east coast and with only a couple of runs open you can be sure I'm going to practice my switch riding with the slow snow and all. When I did duck my stance I was at I believe 18, -6 which is where I'm gonna start. If it's not comfortable I'll adjust as it goes along. That is definitely something I need to master this season


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## PaoloSmythe (Aug 19, 2007)

Snowjoe said:


> By far one of the greatest tricks in the history of anything.
> 
> 180's will always hold a special place in my heart.


i guess that's why i've lacked all inclination to go beyond 'the half turn'?

so *wolfie*..... you started rotations by switching 1s? 
you have no stress when ollying switch as well then i take it?

when ever i try to ollie switch i always nollie!


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## lisevolution (Sep 20, 2007)

Thinking back a bit now in my riding development and seeing Paolo's last comment I remember now why I adjusted my stance forward instead of duck back then... I am quite ambidexterous by nature, I can catch, throw, kick just about everything but write with both hands and feet. I would always sort of be torn between sticking to a side and perfecting it so I'd always tended to go heelside to turn ala the "falling leaf" method as I believe it's called, but not even doing it consciously just naturally being like ok i'm facing this way now lets get at it. My friend suggested I try adjusting my stance to a forward facing one to help eliminate that tendency and focus on working my natural goofy side to perfection. I never had an issue with ollieing off either foot or anything like that in fact I was about equal with both sides and could actually turn toe side pretty well both ways... I wonder if I'll be able to now blend my good technical ability to ride my normal way with my ambidexterous ability to ride switch. I hope so, since now looking back I wish I wouldn't have switched the stance!


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## Guest (Nov 14, 2007)

The main thing that keeps me off practicing switch is that at the same moement I could do stuff hundred times more fun. Still I have problems sometimes when landing 180 on switch, so anyway I gota learn it. I used to jump from fakie ollie before too, because of landing goofy(my natural stance). This week was full of snow, and there's plenty on mountain to go for it, just hope those guys prepare the tracks for this weekend.


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## Guest (Nov 15, 2007)

Two more things I'd like to ask by the way. First one is about jumping from the kickers. Since most of the rotations I did(and very often only tried to do) were from the small bumps on the track or really small kickers. But what about the big kickers that you approach with a lot of speed, is there a need to pop a little ollie just before taking off for a rotation, or you just start rotating without any ollie ? 

Second thing is about landing. Well I always learned to land flat based for stability. But when landing on very angled slopes from the spin I saw many boarders touch the ground with their tail first and then nose, not whole base of the board at the same time. Is that intentional, and there's a reason for it, or there just isn't time in the air to make yourself land it flat based ? Thanks.


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## PaoloSmythe (Aug 19, 2007)

shc89 said:


> about the big kickers that you approach with a lot of speed, is there a need to pop a little ollie just before taking off for a rotation, or you just start rotating without any ollie ?


with a lot of speed and a steep angle of transition, momentum can be enuff to shoot you off into the big blue sky with nice lofty air. 

however, i think (and this is only my opinion NOT gospel) that it is _good form_ to ollie off all jumps when possible, to avoid the 'falling off a lip' type jump trajectory. you want to pop; afterall this will extend your 'hang time' and thus allow you greater tweakage of your grab and or more rotation.



> Second thing is about landing. Well I always learned to land flat based for stability. But when landing on very angled slopes from the spin I saw many boarders touch the ground with their tail first and then nose, not whole base of the board at the same time. Is that intentional, and there's a reason for it


landings generally require a slight edge bite when following a rotation to stop it and thus prevent you from sketching out; ie to stop the rotation of your upper body, that was set in motion. but this only really matters for those uber twists like 5's and 7's.

the phenomenom of tail landing is a _'safety blanket'_, which betrays a lack of confidence in the rider or indeed an incomplete half spin. 

say for example you throw a 360, but when coming into land, you see you have only made it around about 310.... death and destruction awaits? well not really. by planting down the tail first, friction can work on your board in a way that pulls the nose around and thus correcting the incomplete rotation.

really, tail heavy landings are _bad form_, but they are a _'get out of jail free' _card.... but as ever, with practice your confidence increases and such landings will become less frequent as they become sweetly flat.


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## Guest (Nov 15, 2007)

I noticed pre winding helps the spin before, while skateboarding, so I use it while snowboarding too.

Yeah when I jump bs I stay lightly on my toes, but I never did that small carve you were talking about(transition from heel edge to toe edge) that helps the spin.

Whats the difference between fakie 180 and switch 180, is it like when you do a fakie 180 you jump from the nose of your board and when you do a switch 180 you do a standard ollie just from the opposite stance, is that right ?

Also when doing bs 180 where there's no need for making that carve because it's easy to rotate 180, do you also jump from the toes, or flat based ?


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## PaoloSmythe (Aug 19, 2007)

Snowolf said:


> I have to voice a slight dissagreement on this opinion.
> 
> Even with a straight air over a large table, the landing zone will have a significant pitch to it as landing flat is really bad. So as the rider is flying over the table, past the knuckle and is descending back to Terra firma, the rider should have the board basically level in flight. Now if the pitch of the landing zone is 30 degrees, it is only logical that the tail will touch down first. I have never seen a rider, lean way forward to place their board parrallel to this slope. Using the spring of the board to absorb that landing energy makes for a clean, soft and fluid landing.


well we agree to disagree then (there's something you'll not hear me say too often!!!) but as far as i know, in eurolandia at least, the best landing, is one of zero sketch, perfect nose down direction and where the board is parallel with the landing zone, therefore with both feet touching down at the same time.

the suggestion that the rear touches first only so the longitudinal flex might dampen the landing on the legs, is negated by the fact that landing zones are inclined to provide such a facility. 

tail down first is a technique for newbs to ensure no wipe out following an incomplete rotation. 

rub my belly for it is the truth!


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## PaoloSmythe (Aug 19, 2007)

shc89 said:


> I noticed pre winding helps the spin before, while skateboarding, so I use it while snowboarding too.


due to the higher speeds and thus physics involved, prewinding is considered _lower form _(not quite _poor form_) in snowboarding terms. it is usually reserved for rotations of 5s and above, but then you can moderate this by use the _'transition carve' _snowolf has mentioned. speaking of which....



> Yeah when I jump bs I stay lightly on my toes, but I never did that small carve you were talking about(transition from heel edge to toe edge) that helps the spin.


these carves up the tranny are *proper tricky *as they can unbalance your centred weighte, causing you to go off corked and / or at a warped angle, off the side of the landing area. such technique is for _'expert use only' _and then, only on wide kickers with generous landing zones.



> Whats the difference between fakie 180 and switch 180?


I think the diff is what board you are on; fakie - skate; switch - snow



> Also when doing bs 180 where there's no need for making that carve because it's easy to rotate 180, do you also jump from the toes, or flat based ?


to be honest, i have tiny toe to give you an anchor from which to spin off of; but flat base can work too.

*disclaimer *- the above is entirely my opinion which is based upon what i have read, seen, tried or dreamt in the last 12 years!


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## PaoloSmythe (Aug 19, 2007)

Snowolf said:


> Well, I am not freestyle certified, so I am not going to argue about this point as you could very well be right about it and I need to check to see what the official AASI word is on this for here in Seppoland.:thumbsup:


i would be happy to hear what you find. 
as ever, i appreciate being shown to be very much mistaken!


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## Snowjoe (Jul 3, 2007)

Snowolf said:


> Not sure about the switch/fakie thing. i have always used the two terms to mean the same thing. As for the second question, I alway pop off on my toes, it just feels and looks better I think.


Switch ollie is when your riding switch and you pop off of the tail. Fakie is when you pop off of the nose. Nollie would be popping off of the nose in your normal stance. The reason you probably don't hear fake thrown around much is because fakie spins are generally called cab 9's or cab 5's which you probably will have heard. That also comes from skating and is after steve caballero who invented the fakie 360 in skating and snowboarding has kinda taken it aswell.

For the purpose of that explanation I dont mean the real nose and tail of the board, I'm calling the tail whatever is facing uphill in that stance and nose whatevers downhill.


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## PaoloSmythe (Aug 19, 2007)

i thought cab referred only to FS rotations?

having done a spot of online research, all seem to suggest that _fakie _and _switch _are the same thing.

with regard to the direction of travel.... on regular, we know the ollie is from the tail and nollie is from the nose...

when riding _switch _/ _fakie_.... off the tail is still an ollie; the nose still a nollie; both however are just prefixed by the word 'switch'.


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## Snowjoe (Jul 3, 2007)

Fair enough. To be honest I think people will understand it whatever your trying to say, especially with alot of people being/having been skaters. But I wish it was the same terminology haha.

Ok looks like cab is just what people call switch spins either FS or BS. I always thought it was off the nose in s witch but thats because I cant get my mind away from skating


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## lisevolution (Sep 20, 2007)

In regards to the landing on the tail piece of this discussion, I am leaning towards agreeing with Snowolf in terms of using the tail to absorb some of the shock of a hard landing off a big jump. From what I've seen there are times that landing flat based will just cause your body to crumple from the impact... ever seen the guys with two black eyes from their face smashing into their knees off a landing??? That's what i've always been told about it. In an ideal situation you would like to land flat based but certain activities do require you to use the tail of the board as a sort of additional spring to make sure that you have the ability to ride away. 

Again I too could be wrong but this is what I've been told by numerous people who are much more advanced at this stuff than I am


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## PaoloSmythe (Aug 19, 2007)

well of course it is only my perception from what i have read in the past, but you will find it tuff to truly _'stomp a landing' _one foot at a time. tail first if unsure of a complete rotation, or if landing on soft.... but on packed.... well, its all good. 

i am surprised tho by _*cab *_being both directions of rotation. so many magazine foto captions have been cab3, 5, 7, 10 but also switch 3, 5, 7 and 10 etc..... i feel so betrayed!


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## Snowjoe (Jul 3, 2007)

The whole idea of pretty steep landings is so when you land you aren't actually dropping hard onto the landing . Using the knees to absorb the landing shouldn't put your face near your knees because you should be flexed at the knees and not at the back/waist.


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## lisevolution (Sep 20, 2007)

it's just the compression of your lower body from the impact that forces your upper body to crunch down into your collapsed knees. Again I can't say 100% as you will never see me do anything that would even semi-resemble my knees coming anywhere near my face on a landing but this is what i've been told by others...


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## Snowjoe (Jul 3, 2007)

lisevolution said:


> it's just the compression of your lower body from the impact that forces your upper body to crunch down into your collapsed knees. Again I can't say 100% as you will never see me do anything that would even semi-resemble my knees coming anywhere near my face on a landing but this is what i've been told by others...


If you do hit anything on your knees that comes from bad form when you land. I guess people like different ways. I learn the CASI system and from an instructor who throws switch 9's and inverted 7's so I take his word for it. I;m sure both ways work, I just dont like the back seat landings and alot of people think it looks pretty shoddy. Maybe its just an american thing


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## Guest (Nov 16, 2007)

well about the switch/fakie thing i agree with snowjoe, atleast that's how it goes with skateboarding. Sure, when you say riding fakie and riding switch it means the same thing, but it's different when you're talking about the jump. Basically don't take this for granted but for skateboarding, when you'r in your natural stance and jump from the tail it's called ollie, when you jump from the nose it's a nollie. But when you're in your opposite stance, when you make an ollie from the opposite stance it's called switch ollie, and when you make a nollie(jump from the nose) from the opposite of your natural stance it's called fakie ollie. I guess it goes same for snowboarding.

for the thing asked about that transition carve, I was wondering why this is needed to make a transition when you can just go pretty straight and put pressure on you toes before the take off instead making the transition from heel to toes, but I guess it gives you a momentum or something like that(sorry for my bad physics knowledge). As for the fakie rotations, as far as I get it, that transition is not possible, because when you do FS you jump from your toes when fakie, but pressing your toes makes you go in different side than the one you want to rotate to. damn this is complicated

someone mentioned that the pro's always land flat based, both feet at the same time. well i noticed the opposite, when they land on the very angles slopes they always touch with the tail first. i doubt it's comfortable to land at high speed on the angled slope both feet at the same time. landing with tail first might even slow you down a bit...

tomorrow morning (17th) I'm going for my first run this season. can't wait for it.


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## Snowjoe (Jul 3, 2007)

shc89 said:


> someone mentioned that the pro's always land flat based, both feet at the same time. well i noticed the opposite, when they land on the very angles slopes they always touch with the tail first. i doubt it's comfortable to land at high speed on the angled slope both feet at the same time. landing with tail first might even slow you down a bit...


I think that depends.

Here's Shaun White in the park....

YouTube - Winter X Games 10 - Slopestyle 1st : Shaun White

Notice he lands flat. However you do see it tail first in landings in backcountry etc, and thats because the snow is deep and you gotta keep the nose up and out of the snow.


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## Guest (Nov 17, 2007)

Thanks for the info people, especially snowolf. Yeah most people advice flat based landings, and it looks smoother that way, but the spring method you were talking about is very logical, so you can't really always land flat based especially on very angled slopes or deep snow. It would be pretty stupid if they complained about little tail first landing. Even the freestyle pro's do it often(not only in backcountry), and I guess from their experience that they know the best way.


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## Guest (Nov 17, 2007)

One more thing I'd like to ask, hope it's ok to ask another question in the same thread,if you want I'll start a new thread. Well I was today on the mountain snowboarding for the first time this winter. The snow fell very early this year. I bought my snowboard(complete, deck,bindings and boots) new very cheaply for about 250 euros. I knew that for that price I shouldn't expect some top quality, not even close to it. But one thing really pisses me off. I don't know if it's because the bindings angle doesn't suite me or something. My boots are also to small I think, I can touch the front part of the boot with my toes. I noticed that I get pains in my front foot on every run. I also noticed that when going downhill towards the final flat before the lift, more weight is put on my back foot than front, also my back leg is pretty bend but front is much less bent than the back. I also noticed that on my board it's not easy to distribute the weight evenly and even harder to put a bit harder pressure to my front foot which is needed when I want to make sharper turns, not just carving. What I noticed that when I was going down the track turning, somehow altough I always tried to do the opposite my back foot would naturally get more pressure. It's not a lack of skill because I learned how to make good turns pretty long time ago. I tried to change bindings tightness, but if I tight it up I feel pains in the foot, and if it's less tightened pains are much smaller but I'm not used to ride the board with loose tightened bindings. Maybe I'm wrong but I just feel something is wrong, altough it's still fun I feel far from comfortable when riding.


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## alaric (Aug 28, 2007)

SHC, what are your binding angles and stance width?


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## Guest (Nov 17, 2007)

The space between bindings is 34 cm long(the space BETWEEN the bindings, not far edges of the bindings). Angle of my back foot binding is 1 degree to the inside(to the nose of the board), and degree of my front foot is 14 degrees to the outside(to the nose of the board). My height is 173 cm if it means anything to you. Thanks.


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## Guest (Nov 17, 2007)

I always try to maintain the center of mass between the bindings, but when I'm doing some sharper turn I lean bit to the front, just slightly so I get some more pressure on the fron foot, to be stabile while the back is rotating.


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## Guest (Nov 18, 2007)

They way i see turning on a snowboard is there two types of turn just like with skis: there's that basic turn where you use your front foot as a pivot and back foot rotates, I use that turn very often especially if i'm moving slowly, or want to make a very sharp turn. And there's also carving method which doesn't turn so sharp or fast as the first one but that way you maintain your speed and is much faster. I use carving method when I'm moving fast down the hill. I also heard that the first method(front foot pivot, back for rotating) is considered bad form, but I'm very used to it. I basically learned to snowboard by myself, learning from the internet, so I had very little or no talk with experienced snowboarders.


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## Guest (Nov 18, 2007)

Damn this is the first time I heard about that method. I read your guide. I'll try using it next time, unfortunately not before next saturday. So basically, using that 'torsional flex' turning, you don't apply push to the back foot ? It's totally new to me, for a toe side turn, I'd apply slightly more pressure to my front foot by leaning forward just slightly and pressing a bit with my front foot, I'd get on my toes(both feet) and push my back foot to the heel side, while maintaining pressure on the front foot. Is the torsional flex method more effective, do you make sharper turns with it? 

For the binding setting, I think it will help, if I rotate the back binding to make my stance a bit duck footed because I think I feel more comfortable that way. I will also listen to your advice about the space between the bindings.

Thanks.


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## Guest (Nov 28, 2007)

Every Trick (actually almost all spins) in Jumping With Jussi is taught with the springing ollie, it does seem like he goes off axis a bit, but i believe that is intentional tweak. I do ollie on All jumps.


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## PaoloSmythe (Aug 19, 2007)

SNAZ said:


> I do ollie on All jumps.


and so you should! 

_the Oks_ knows his onions!!!


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## Guest (Nov 28, 2007)

PaoloSmythe said:


> and so you should!
> 
> _the Oks_ knows his onions!!!


I dont get what I said wrong, I just stated that I ollie on my jumps :dunno:


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## PaoloSmythe (Aug 19, 2007)

thank you mr translator.... now if we might work on your rampant use of Z's


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## Guest (Nov 29, 2007)

Haha, funny thing is that I just got your joke right after I posted my confusion. I felt like an idiot and forgot to edit it. And yes, Jussi does know his onions. Jumping with Jussi is also a great movie, good filming and cool tricks.


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## Guest (Dec 5, 2007)

Thanks for the help snowolf, last time I was riding I tried and learned to do it.


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## Guest (Dec 5, 2007)

quick question about this... since there haven't been any table tops really set up in my area, i've been hitting the small kickers that random people set up, but it's impossible to really get any air off of them. i can do a small/medium ollie and get some air, but when i get really enthusiastic, i pop too hard and it's like my board comes from under me and i land on my back. is this just a matter of experience or is there something i'm missing about keeping on top of my board when doing a hard ollie?

also, i don't get how to transition from the weight balancing of an ollie to orienting your board for a spin or a grab... can you really do a proper ollie off of just a rear 1/4 of your board? i've seen some instructional videos and they don't explain it well, i'm half guessing you just ride off the jump and put weight/momentum into the spin rather than getting air or half guessing you just have to learn to balance yourself on just one corner of your board.


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## PaoloSmythe (Aug 19, 2007)

it sounds to me, mr *xen*, that when you get a little over zealous in your _pop ambition_, you basically spring thru your legs and ultimately lift off from your heels. if you keep your weight low and centered you will have greater stability during the approach; and then when you look to unload and provoke a springboard-like _pop_, you do so in a more smooth and deliberate (ie less aggressive) way.

the key is to look smooooooth! so chillax my maaaan! be smooth!

as for the pop and twist. the key here, is that each half of your body serves a different purpose. you load up and then release your legs as per above; and to initiate the spin, the actual rotation comes from the other end of your corpse ie. the head and sholders.

i try to figure it in this order, albeit farking quickly:

low and lazy as you approach the lip;
unload front leg to tweak up the nose of yer plank;
twist the head shoulders torso in the direction of the turn;
unload the rear leg to create the pop
let your knee flex equally so as lift them for a grab
tweak which ever leg you want out to bone yer balls off! 

done in this order, the front leg lifts to flex the board;
the body twists to start the turn whilst still in contact with the ground, thus giving your momentum something fixed to push off from;
the rear leg follows last as it still touches the floor as the body has started to twist and releases the eleastic energy in the plank to provoke the _pop_.

did any of that make any sense even slightly? man, i confused myself! i fink i am better off chatting economics!


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## Guest (Dec 5, 2007)

lol, yeah... i get what you're saying. if snowboarding were a martial art, that's how i would imagine an instructor would explain the motion. what can i say, this is only my second season back on a board after a 3 year hiatus... maybe i should start taking up smoking pot again before hitting the slopes to "chillax" :lol:

and yeah, talking about economics is easier because there are always diagrams and models you can refer to... trying to explain exactly what you're body does based off of muscle memory takes a bit more imgaination in articulating.

thanks for the tips, i'll keep this stuff in mind this weekend.


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## PaoloSmythe (Aug 19, 2007)

ha! i dunno! i did better at biology than at money matters!

the 2 nuggets of advice that i have found to be the absolute best:

1. *positive visualisation *- picture yourself from the start of the run in, thru the perfect jump, the smoothest landing and the biggest cheer from your buds

2. *relax*; shake out everything, from your face, thru your limbs down to your boots! chant _'loosey goosey'_ to yerself and swing yer limbs like a loose limbed chimp!

and then flllllyyyyyyyy!


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## Guest (Dec 6, 2007)

Yeah. I'm pretty good at carving now, I'm not sure if I am too smooth but I don't skid atleast not alot when doing it, altough I'm not the best at maintaining a high angle to initate sharper turns. Anyway to me it seems that I'm doing sharper turns when using your method, digging in the nose part of the edge first, than when carving when I dig both edges at the same time.


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## Guest (Dec 6, 2007)

and i noticed that even when carving it's smoother to put the front part of the edge first and then the back part quickly follows, to make it smooth transition. Not just lean forward-lean back.


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