# An Open Letter From SIMS



## Extremo (Nov 6, 2008)

Who's behind Sims now? Is it just some start up who bought brand rights?


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## Switchblade (Aug 27, 2015)

SIMS is owned by Hilary Sims, the widow of Tom.


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## Mig Fullbag (Apr 15, 2014)

Extremo said:


> Who's behind Sims now? Is it just some start up who bought brand rights?


Never Summer, from the looks of it. At least, that's where they are made.


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## Switchblade (Aug 27, 2015)

The boards are being made at Never Summer, that's it's. SIMS is not owned by NS.


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## powderjunkie (Jun 30, 2015)

Switchblade said:


> The boards are being made at Never Summer, that's it's. SIMS is not owned by NS.


SIMS is being pressed by NS? Now that is pretty cool.


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## BurtonAvenger (Aug 14, 2007)

Switchblade said:


> SIMS is owned by Hilary Sims, the widow of Tom.


Collective owns it, she's just working with them. 

Bad move on their part.


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## Mig Fullbag (Apr 15, 2014)

Switchblade said:


> The boards are being made at Never Summer, that's it's. SIMS is not owned by NS.


 I got that. We just posted at the same time. :thumbsup:


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## lab49232 (Sep 13, 2011)

Sims is dead, there is no brand value left in the name. People who are old enough to remember the glory days are just that, old for the industry. People slightly younger remember the crap that was put out towards the end of Sims Brand life and thus view the product as garbage, and the young generation don't know Sims at all and there is nothing exciting or cool about the brand. In fact everything about them still looks dated. 

Get excited if you want but Sims is NEVER coming back.


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## deagol (Mar 26, 2014)

lab49232 said:


> ...... People who are old enough to remember the glory days are just that, old for the industry. ..... In fact everything about them still looks dated.
> ...


I guess I fall into this category (I am old for the industry). I had a Sims Switchblade as my second ever snowboard and it was the worst riding board (with the exception of a borrowed Gnu) that I have ever ridden. I then switched to a borrowed Sims Halfpipe and it was pretty good. 

It was good that Sims was there in the market to prevent Burton from being too dominant in that era. There was the whole Shaun Palmer rebel thing... Burton's bindings were way better than Sims' and we went from Burton to Sims, then back to Burton in the '90's. (There were, of course, other brands). I thought I saw Barfoot was also trying to come back?

I am no industry expert, but it seems to me that the market is flooded right now and I would have to agree that the boards do look "dated" but that is just the graphics. I would prefer them to many of the too-busy graffiti/comic book graphics popular nowadays.. but that is just me. It will be interesting to see how this goes.


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## linvillegorge (Jul 6, 2009)

Yeah, it'll be interesting to see how it goes. It's definitely a flooded market, that's for sure.

And lab is correct that all younger riders and the majority of riders overall weren't around for Sims' heyday and only remember them putting out cheap rental type boards. There definitely isn't a great deal of brand recognition or brand equity left out there for the Sims name.

It's gonna be an uphill battle, but best of luck.


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## taco tuesday (Jul 26, 2014)

I feel like this is similar to every time some group buys the Indian Motorcycles name and tries to restart the brand. It tends to flop because there is no continuity. The brand is dead. Buying it's name and making motorcycles or boards in this instance that look nostalgic isn't really revitalizing a brand.

Then again, the current owners of Indian seem to be doing ok.


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## Mystery2many (Aug 14, 2013)

Sims better be bringing something new and intriguing to the table and not just relying on a failed legacy. The name alone is not enough to make it desirable to this trending market. 

For example: Slash snowboards- they have a cool name, fun top sheets, sweet shapes, and a relevant and respected creator that still shreds and has a huge amount of passion for this sport.


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## linvillegorge (Jul 6, 2009)

I really wanted to like Slash, but I was completely unimpressed by the Straight which should've been right up my alley.


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## Mystery2many (Aug 14, 2013)

linvillegorge said:


> I really wanted to like Slash, but I was completely unimpressed by the Straight which should've been right up my alley.


You don't like that profile though, right? I really think personal riding style has a huge influence on one's experience.


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## Singu1arity (Jan 2, 2014)

linvillegorge said:


> I really wanted to like Slash, but I was completely unimpressed by the Straight which should've been right up my alley.


Don't say that, the Straight was going to be my future pow board.....on paper.

But I've had my reservations about it as well. Always wanted to try Slash, but have seen many durability issues with friends that own them. Yes was my other option and I did end up buying a Yes Jackpot after demoing it. 

Still need a pow board after that purchase :facepalm3:

....although it performs quite well in all conditions with the added stiffness in 2015.


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## linvillegorge (Jul 6, 2009)

What's special about the profile? It's pretty much standard RCR with a baby swallowtail that isn't functional and is just for visual appeal.

My issues with it were that one, it was WAY too soft for the type of board it was supposed to be. That thing was a borderline noodle. Two, for a powder oriented board, float was marginal at best.

It just wasn't a great board IMO.

I demo a lot of boards and I just always seem to come back to Capita and NS.


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## Mystery2many (Aug 14, 2013)

Yeah I was saying you don't like RCR. I thought I read that you are not a fan of it. ?


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## linvillegorge (Jul 6, 2009)

Mystery2many said:


> Yeah I was saying you don't like RCR. I thought I read that you are not a fan of it. ?


One of my primary boards is a CRC Capita DBX.


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## taco tuesday (Jul 26, 2014)

linvillegorge said:


> Mystery2many said:
> 
> 
> > Yeah I was saying you don't like RCR. I thought I read that you are not a fan of it. ?
> ...


you mean rcr?


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## linvillegorge (Jul 6, 2009)

taco tuesday said:


> you mean rcr?


LOL

yeah, that


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## Argo (Feb 25, 2010)

linvillegorge said:


> I demo a lot of boards and I just always seem to come back to Capita and NS.


I agree with capita. I also like the ns products, high society is what I rode most last season. They are durable and we'll built products. My son has a slash that gigi gave him after throwing a huge method last summer. Really nice looking board but it did not hold up to the bigger lines in the parks around here. All of his capita products have. Capita makes a product to do a certain thing and it does it. I rode a slasher and a nas quite a bit last year too and they are perfect at what they do. My son used the nas in his freeride tour and it held up well. 

I would possibly try Sims but not if it's just a NS with Sims name on it.... That's weak as hell


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## raffertyk2 (Dec 16, 2014)

Argo said:


> I agree with capita. I also like the ns products, high society is what I rode most last season.
> 
> I would possibly try Sims but not if it's just a NS with Sims name on it.... That's weak as hell


High Society and Sims are both being pressed by Never Summer but they each design their own boards by my understanding. Correct me if I'm wrong 

So why would you be open to riding a High Society but not a Sims? 

Don't get me wrong I got on a High Society icon (I believe that's what it was) last season for a few runs and enjoyed the hell out of it so I would be interested in demoing a Sims as well. The two boards on their website now aren't anything that wows me but the materials look on par with just about everything else out there.


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## ShredLife (Feb 6, 2010)

Sims has never made great snowboards. 

they've also never had a strong or relevant team or really done shit in snowboarding other than argue over who was first and who had more influence in 1985.

no one cares, and no one cares about LaMar, Barfoot, or Hooger Booger either.

Forum, for example has been more important to snowboarding. 


Core? bring back Option. at least they were boards that people wanted to ride.


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## linvillegorge (Jul 6, 2009)

Forum had one of the best team of riders ever. That team of riders and the movies they put out contributed more to the sport than any actual gear Forum ever produced.


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## ShredLife (Feb 6, 2010)

linvillegorge said:


> Forum had one of the best team of riders ever. That team of riders and the movies they put out contributed more to the sport than any actual gear Forum ever produced.


for sure - and to me that counts for a lot. it's our culture that made snowboarding what it is (was), not the minutia of gear.


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

Switchblade said:


> Dear Snowboarding,
> 
> We are back.
> #BackToTheCore
> ...


Hmmm hopefully any similarity to that bullshit Burton letter "is purely coincidental"..........

Also... Fuck the core. It's 2015 and the brand with the most sponsored riders is Red Bull. 

Made in America?
Ahhh too bad. I only buy canadian or chinese. It's better quality. :hairy:

That said... I have a Sims jacket


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## highme (Dec 2, 2012)

Terry Kidwell
Craig Kelly
Shaun Palmer
Noah Salasnek
Chris Roach
Janna Meyen

Certainly no influential riders were ever on the Sims team.


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## ShredLife (Feb 6, 2010)

well i'd just say Kelly made his legacy with Burton, and Palmer with Palmer.... and Roach was better known as a Santa Cruz rider, wasn't he?

the Noah board is the most iconic thing Sims has done imo.


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## deagol (Mar 26, 2014)

ShredLife said:


> ..Kelly made his legacy with Burton.....



I was thinking the same thing.... apparently the Kelly Sims split wasn't the most amicable thing, hence the Mystery Air model from Burton afterwards.

Although with Palmer, he already did have a rep built up with Sims that did allow him to go and start his own brand.


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## ItchEtrigR (Jan 1, 2012)

Forget their snowboards, I'd be stoked to see another Hosoi, Lester, Nash or Staab out of this.


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## Argo (Feb 25, 2010)

They don't do their own design. They use the old forms press from a few years back. at least high society does. I purchased mine for a ridiculous low price just to try a "Neversummer" board.


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## timmytard (Mar 19, 2009)

ShredLife said:


> Sims has never made great snowboards.
> 
> they've also never had a strong or relevant team or really done shit in snowboarding other than argue over who was first and who had more influence in 1985.
> 
> ...


Sims had the Kid, he was a team. Snowboarding wasn't big enough as a whole for teams.
Plus Tom just wanted to surf & snowboard, you can't fault him on that.


That was the smartest thing I've ever heard you say there shredhead.
Option snowboards, which used to be NEVER snowboards were & still are fuckin' awesome decks.

They were made in Vancouver Canada, close to where I grew up & I always thought that woulda been the dream place to work.

They were around with the first batch of board makers on the snowboarding seen, with 3 mtns within 20 min from the office.

I've ridden more Option decks than any other deck, ten fold & I've never broken one.

I have a nice quiver of Options right now.
An Option Booter Wide 154 park board
A Supercap Wide 161 2nd torsionally stiffest board I have only my Titanium channel is stiffer torsionally. Titanal just doesn't twist.
But not near as stiff length wise.
And a SuperCharger Wide 168 which is about the equivalent to a Custom X I'd say?

Those 3 boards are all anyone my size or slightly bigger could ever need, that covers it all,

Maybe some kind of funky pow shape board to top it off:hairy:
But they died just before Rocker & new shapes came into play.

Aren't they Zion or some shit now?

TT


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## linvillegorge (Jul 6, 2009)

Argo said:


> They don't do their own design. They use the old forms press from a few years back. at least high society does. I purchased mine for a ridiculous low price just to try a "Neversummer" board.


Those Sims boards definitely aren't old NS molds. One of the models has baby swallowtailed tips similar to what Slash does. NS has never had a board with that to my knowledge.


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## BurtonAvenger (Aug 14, 2007)

linvillegorge said:


> Forum had one of the best team of riders ever. That team of riders and the movies they put out contributed more to the sport than any actual gear Forum ever produced.


People seem to forget how bad the Forum products were for the first 4 years too. That team did more for snowboarding in terms of progression and image though and that's their legacy. 

Companies will come and go, it's the people behind it that generally are the ones that matter. Tom Sims created The Snowboarder, Burton created The Snowboard Industry. We owe Tom a debt of gratitude.

I'm more bummed that the X Wedge isn't in the line right now. That board was FUN!


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## Switchblade (Aug 27, 2015)

Argo said:


> They don't do their own design. They use the old forms press from a few years back. at least high society does. I purchased mine for a ridiculous low price just to try a "Neversummer" board.


Just to clarify, SIMS has opened new molds. The shapes and profiles are unique and specific to SIMS.


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## BurtonAvenger (Aug 14, 2007)

Digging up this thread to post a link to an interview with the Sims brand manager Marc Vitelli I did. This should give a bit of insight into where the brand is at. SIMS Back To The Core With Marc Vitelli - The Angry Snowboarder


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## deagol (Mar 26, 2014)

nice article. Interesting to read about the X-wedge... seems like it would have been fun to try (bummer there are no new offerings with it). We used to use canting wedges on the back binding back in the day. Also glad to see camber is not being totally phased out.


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## linvillegorge (Jul 6, 2009)

C'mon BA...

For all the trashing you did of the idea of bringing back the Sims brand earlier in this thread and all the bashing you've done of the NS factory on this forum in the past, you sure did lob up some softball questions for that interview.

I respect your opinion on matters, but I'd like to see you actually take them and really go head to head with industry decision makers and post the results. Don't just roll over when granted an interview.


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## BurtonAvenger (Aug 14, 2007)

linvillegorge said:


> C'mon BA...
> 
> For all the trashing you did of the idea of bringing back the Sims brand earlier in this thread and all the bashing you've done of the NS factory on this forum in the past, you sure did lob up some softball questions for that interview.
> 
> I respect your opinion on matters, but I'd like to see you actually take them and really go head to head with industry decision makers and post the results. Don't just roll over when granted an interview.


I didn't roll over, those were the questions I wanted answered. Where the brand sits come January will be where the follow up is.


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## freshy (Nov 18, 2009)

Dear Sims

I just don't trust you anymore. Yes you were there from the start and made some innovations and helped get snowboarding to the masses including my self as my first board was a Sims. But you turned you're back on me not being satisfied with having a good quality relationship with the hardcore snowboarders and independent snowboard and skateboard shops; people who lived that lifestyle. Instead you got greedy and went for the quick buck, and thought you would instead drop your quality and mass produce garbage, and sell your boards to successful chains and mainstream outlets to gain money instead of credibility.How did that work out for you? 
Now you come back on the coat tails of one of the companies that kept their credibility through the hard times and expect me to come crawling back? I say good day sir. Had some great memories with you, but I will stick to the companies who always have and will actually love to snowboard and so far have not lost sight of what this sport was always about.


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## linvillegorge (Jul 6, 2009)

freshy said:


> Dear Sims
> 
> I just don't trust you anymore. Yes you were there from the start and made some innovations and helped get snowboarding to the masses including my self as my first board was a Sims. But you turned you're back on me not being satisfied with having a good quality relationship with the hardcore snowboarders and independent snowboard and skateboard shops; people who lived that lifestyle. Instead you got greedy and went for the quick buck, and thought you would instead drop your quality and mass produce garbage, and sell your boards to successful chains and mainstream outlets to gain money instead of credibility.How did that work out for you?
> Now you come back on the coat tails of one of the companies that kept their credibility through the hard times and expect me to come crawling back? I say good day sir. Had some great memories with you, but I will stick to the companies who always have and will actually love to snowboard and so far have not lost sight of what this sport was always about.


Honestly, that's pretty fair.


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## SGboarder (Jun 24, 2012)

BurtonAvenger said:


> Digging up this thread to post a link to an interview with the Sims brand manager Marc Vitelli I did. This should give a bit of insight into where the brand is at. SIMS Back To The Core With Marc Vitelli - The Angry Snowboarder


Wow, that was like the The Good Ride doing interviews now :eyetwitch2:


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## SilverSurfer (Sep 27, 2010)

SGboarder said:


> Wow, that was like the The Good Ride doing interviews now :eyetwitch2:


Nice one!
The interview reads like a child's homework assignment, gone bad.


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## Switchblade (Aug 27, 2015)

Freshy,
I totally understand your lack of trust. It's something that needs to be built and shouldn't just be granted. We're well aware that we have some work to do. We're extremely proud of our history. To say that SIMS 'made some innovations' is a little short sighted. It's like saying the Wright Brothers had a little something to do with airplanes. 
Business is hard. Everyone makes mistakes. There's a reason people say Jake Burton created the snowboard industry and Tom Sims created the snowboarder. Tom, like all of us, wasn't perfect. What was perfect was his passion for snowboarding. Tom created the lifestyle for the people you say he turned his back on. Admittedly the 'chain store' years were not our finest, but let me ask you this…is that worse than the core brands that are represented in your favorite shop that are also selling direct to the consumer? More brands do this at a greater volume everyday. Direct sales by brands takes money from the backbone of snowboarding…the core shops. 
As for coming 'back on the coat tails of one of the companies that kept their credibility through the hard times', there's a reason Never Summer agreed to produce SIMS Snowboards. They see the potential with the brand. Never Summer does everything right when it comes to the health of our industry. They protect core shops by not opening every door in every town across the nation. They don't over produce, keeping demand for their product at a high level. They don't sell direct, undercutting the core retailers that are the life blood of snowboarding. Most of all they produce their product here in the USA. We're honored that they agreed to be our manufacturing partner moving forward and we are striving to attain these same values that they have in place.
We've got a ways to go before we regain the trust of the snowboarding community, but we are on the right path. No one is happier than I about SIMS being on this path. 
I appreciate your honest feed back. We need that. I'm hoping that we can regain your trust and that you'll give us a try in the future.

Marc Vitelli
SIMS Brand Manager


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## deagol (Mar 26, 2014)

I like your X-wedge idea.... FWIW


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## linvillegorge (Jul 6, 2009)

I don't think Sims actually owns the x-wedge concept, but I may be wrong.

It'll be interesting to see how this venture works out. The boards are actually pretty cool.


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## BurtonAvenger (Aug 14, 2007)

SilverSurfer said:


> Nice one!
> The interview reads like a child's homework assignment, gone bad.


Aww are you still butt hurt all these years later. It's OK I'll tell your mom to put that tushy powder on your bum for you after I get done fist fucking her tonight.


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## powderjunkie (Jun 30, 2015)

Nice comeback BA... Middle school called and they want their insult back.


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## BurtonAvenger (Aug 14, 2007)

powderjunkie said:


> Nice comeback BA... Middle school called and they want their insult back.


Aww are you upset too.


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## powderjunkie (Jun 30, 2015)

lol about some internet tough guy acting like a prepubescent teen who just discovered porn on the interwebz? ummmm nope.


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## timmytard (Mar 19, 2009)

powderjunkie said:


> lol about some internet tough guy acting like a prepubescent teen who just discovered porn on the interwebz? ummmm nope.


Oh no, he's no internet tough guy

He's the real deal man.:eyetwitch2:

Did you know someone challenged him once & he showed up.
The other guy didn't.

That just proves, he's not a phony internet tough guy.

He's bad ass.. 

So watch it fool

Bwa ha ha ha 


TT


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## Matías (Sep 27, 2015)

Good luck Sims!! All the best and make some fun boards to ride.


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## freshy (Nov 18, 2009)

Switchblade said:


> Freshy,
> I totally understand your lack of trust. It's something that needs to be built and shouldn't just be granted. We're well aware that we have some work to do. We're extremely proud of our history. To say that SIMS 'made some innovations' is a little short sighted. It's like saying the Wright Brothers had a little something to do with airplanes.
> Business is hard. Everyone makes mistakes. There's a reason people say Jake Burton created the snowboard industry and Tom Sims created the snowboarder. Tom, like all of us, wasn't perfect. What was perfect was his passion for snowboarding. Tom created the lifestyle for the people you say he turned his back on. Admittedly the 'chain store' years were not our finest, but let me ask you this…is that worse than the core brands that are represented in your favorite shop that are also selling direct to the consumer? More brands do this at a greater volume everyday. Direct sales by brands takes money from the backbone of snowboarding…the core shops.
> As for coming 'back on the coat tails of one of the companies that kept their credibility through the hard times', there's a reason Never Summer agreed to produce SIMS Snowboards. They see the potential with the brand. Never Summer does everything right when it comes to the health of our industry. They protect core shops by not opening every door in every town across the nation. They don't over produce, keeping demand for their product at a high level. They don't sell direct, undercutting the core retailers that are the life blood of snowboarding. Most of all they produce their product here in the USA. We're honored that they agreed to be our manufacturing partner moving forward and we are striving to attain these same values that they have in place.
> ...


You guys do have a great history, and your right business is hard. I dunno if I agree with all your points but I'm not here to nitpick. I really am stoked you guys are making a comeback and I probably would give you guys another chance. I really need to get the memory of the last Sims board I ever rode out of my mind, wow that thing was a steaming pile of shit. Just felt like a plastic toy made for little kids and I don't think it even had a wood core. Might have been fine for a 10 year old hiking a hill, but not a 20 year old riding an actual ski hill. There is no excuse for such a crappy product from such a big name at a time when snowboarding was experiencing such progression; 1998.

Haha sorry I can't help feeling bitter when I think about that board. 

Anyway good luck, and if you plan on making a powder specific 168-170 board I would love to give you guys another chance.


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## alchemy (Apr 28, 2014)

timmytard said:


> Oh no, he's no internet tough guy
> 
> He's the real deal man.:eyetwitch2:
> 
> ...


no, he's just an internet tough guy that takes the internet too seriously.
he showed up to fight someone who argued with him on a forum? now that is lol material.


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## timmytard (Mar 19, 2009)

freshy said:


> You guys do have a great history, and your right business is hard. I dunno if I agree with all your points but I'm not here to nitpick. I really am stoked you guys are making a comeback and I probably would give you guys another chance. I really need to get the memory of the last Sims board I ever rode out of my mind, wow that thing was a steaming pile of shit. Just felt like a plastic toy made for little kids and I don't think it even had a wood core. Might have been fine for a 10 year old hiking a hill, but not a 20 year old riding an actual ski hill. There is no excuse for such a crappy product from such a big name at a time when snowboarding was experiencing such progression; 1998.
> 
> Haha sorry I can't help feeling bitter when I think about that board.
> 
> Anyway good luck, and if you plan on making a powder specific 168-170 board I would love to give you guys another chance.


Well, it ain't as big as I hoped it would be either, but....

Tell me you don't want to try that?

Not only is it Rocker lengthwise.

This things convex

Picture the smooth transition from edge to edge, doesn't that feel sweet? haha Yes it does haha

I want one of rhese things bad, second only to a WinterStick swallow tail.
Just barely. 
If I had both, I have a feelin' I'd be on this one way more:hairy:


Maybe you can you shed a little light on those?
Please tell me NS is gonna finish those off?

I'll sell every board I got.


TT


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## timmytard (Mar 19, 2009)

alchemy said:


> no, he's just an internet tough guy that takes the internet too seriously.
> he showed up to fight someone who argued with him on a forum? now that is lol material.


No no, every tough guy _says _he's done that.

This was _apparently _:embarrased1: in real life.

So yeah, haha, no way to verify that. 

bwa ha ha ha

We better be careful 

We're playin' with fire.


TT


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## timmytard (Mar 19, 2009)

timmytard said:


> Well, it ain't as big as I hoped it would be either, but....
> 
> Tell me you don't want to try that?
> 
> ...



Forgot to post the pic, with all the fun I was havin':hairy:


TT


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