# more of the same



## killclimbz

No beacon, no chance. That is now the 20th person killed this season.

RIP Timothy.


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## DrnknZag

You must have beaten me to it by mere seconds, I just posted the same.

So awful, he never had a chance. RIP.


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## schmitty34

The story posted by Drnkzag said they air lifted him to the hospital where he later died but the other story said he was buried for 40 minutes. If both are true, I'm suprised he wasn't found dead after 40 minutes unter 3 feet of snow. He must have had a big air pocket.

really unfortunate that they didn't have beacons. If they found him in 40 minutes without a beacon you would think they would have found him much quicker, and maybe in time to save him, if they all had the right equipment.


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## ETM

Damn.
RIP.


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## mjd

schmitty34 said:


> The story posted by Drnkzag said they air lifted him to the hospital where he later died but the other story said he was buried for 40 minutes. If both are true, I'm suprised he wasn't found dead after 40 minutes unter 3 feet of snow. He must have had a big air pocket.
> 
> really unfortunate that they didn't have beacons. If they found him in 40 minutes without a beacon you would think they would have found him much quicker, and maybe in time to save him, if they all had the right equipment.



they said his board was snapped in half so he may have impacted on something and died from that before being buried. if he was conscious he maybe could have cleared the snow out of his throat. makes me think more and more about shelling out for an inflatable.


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## killclimbz

It's always a gamble even with an airbag. Trauma does kill about one quarter of those who get caught in a slide. He would of most certainly had a much better chance of surviving if him and his partners were following avalanche protocols and know how to use their gear in an emergency. After 40 minutes under the snow, he would have most likely had serious brain damage. This is just a horrible incident, compounded by lack of preparedness.


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## mjd

brain damage for sure. that's another appealing feature to the air bag that even if you're unconscious you still have a chance of accessing air. 

it's telling how _"His friends were on the side watching him go across the mountain," Bridge said._. it sounds like they at least weren't too crazy about the idea.


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## DrnknZag

Update from the Utah Avy Center.....

Accident: Dutch Draw 2/23/2012 | Utah Avalanche Center

Sounds like the group had NO business being there, and were warned before the slide.


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## KIRKRIDER

Very sad and avoidable. be careful out there. Riding is beautiful. But not worth your life.


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## mjd

wow, that report should be mandatory reading for everyone who goes out ob bounds.


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## schmitty34

DrnknZag said:


> Update from the Utah Avy Center.....
> 
> Accident: Dutch Draw 2/23/2012 | Utah Avalanche Center
> 
> Sounds like the group had NO business being there, and were warned before the slide.


Sounds like that first article was wrong about him dying at the hospital. He must have been pronounced dead at the hospital. I am sure he was dead when they dug him up. 40 minutes is a long time under the snow unless he had a huge air pocket.

So unfortunate and sad....RIP.


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## schmitty34

mjd said:


> wow, that report should be mandatory reading for everyone who goes out ob bounds.


Agreed. Those kids probably had no idea how dangerous it was and just thought it would be cool to get some untouched powder. I was once young and niave like that until I learned more about avy safety.


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## killclimbz

Bummer. I don't mean to be indifferent, a man did lose his life. Still, they had the warnings and still chose to continue on their path. No matter what you do to try to steer people into following a correct decision path, you will still get those who ignore it. Hopefully they stay out of dangerous terrain, ultimately though the decisions leading up to this are theirs and theirs alone. No one to blame but this group. It's a pretty expensive lesson they just learned.


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## AdamBQ

My condolences. . .
In terms of where the pronouncement was made. . . My mother is a trauma nurse and my brother in law is a paramedic. There is a term/sentence in trauma medicine that goes along the lines of " You aren't dead until you are room temperature and dead". While it sounds quite harsh it is has to do with the a TON of historical cases, and basic physiological evidence. In an ER they will not typically call time of death until the patient reaches room temperature as there are many crazy cases where they might have called it otherwise, but then as a patient warms up and comes to, or alteast develops a pulse.

Regardless. Definitely a terrible tragedy that might have been avoidable which is always the worse kind.


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## killclimbz

Man this season is just stacking them up. We are up to 22 fatalities for the season. Another snowmobiler was killed on the 27th. A snowbiker was killed on the 25th. It was a dirt bike coverted to a single track like a snowmobile and ski on the front spokes. First of it's kind. 

Season is rough.

A list of all the accidents is here: Avalanche.org - Avalanche Accidents Database

Along with links to the reports.


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## onji

This is another example of a tragic example that could may have been helped by having proper equipment and know how, or avoided altogether by heeding avalanche condition reports. My condolences to the family and friends.

I've seen way to many people riding like this in Japan almost every time I'm in the back country. Virtually no one takes safety equipment (the local Japanese are the worst at this). And as far as outbound runs go only Niseko & Hakuba mountains make avy reports.


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## killclimbz

Avalanche safety and backcountry protocols are relatively new for the recreational user in Japan. The scene really exploded for sure. Avalanche awareness should be a hot topic for your snow regions. Setting up a grass roots program like we've done with Friends of Berthoud Pass, would probably be a welcome and helpful addition to the scene there. If you want to talk about setting something like this up, shoot me a PM and I'll go over what we do. I know there are cultural differences in Japan, but I would think our model would fly over there.

I agree that the list of accidents this year is sad. What is really sad is that a high percentage of them knew better, yet chose to go down that path. Complacency seems to be a problem. They've ridden that slope before and for many years. Now this year, with the bad snow pack, those same slopes are dangerous and yet people are not adjusting their habits. I know I've made significant changes this season. Overall, this season is pretty much a wash, and I'll just take what I can get. There will be another season next year. I'd like to see it.


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## killclimbz

Crap, it's California's turn I'm afraid. A skier was killed yesterday in the Tahoe area. Condolences to all involved.

http://www.sierraavalanchecenter.org/advisory


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## NWBoarder

Man, it's a rough winter around the west. You would think people would learn. Those snowbikes are cool, but they won't outrun an avalanche. People just need to learn how to play safely.


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## killclimbz

I think one of the huge problems is that we are seeing dangers that are very different than in previous years for almost every area. Dangers that a vast majority (myself included) have not seen since they have started getting turns in the backcountry. It is a year to adjust your habits. What worked in the past may not work this season.


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## kctahoe

killclimbz said:


> Crap, it's California's turn I'm afraid. A skier was killed yesterday in the Tahoe area. Condolences to all involved.
> 
> http://www.sierraavalanchecenter.org/advisory


I saw that this morning, was just about to post it, thats just what i wanted to read on my way to Alpine today.


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## linvillegorge

Ben was a friend of a friend. RIP


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## killclimbz

Snowmobiler killed in and avalanche in the La Sal range in Utah yesterday. This is happening on a regular basis right now.


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## killclimbz

Damn! Another death in California. Another Snowmobiler. I think this has the deaths up to 26 for the season in the US. That is 2 off of the average. Needless to say, we are most likely going to be above average. 

http://www.sierraavalanchecenter.org/node/1500?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=facebook


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## linvillegorge

Well, CO is getting an early spring. 1st half of March looks like a bust. Dry and crazy warm for the next week at least. 

Ah, fuck it. I'm about over it this year. Just can't get my stoke going. I'm ready for fishing and backpacking. Hopefully next season will be better.


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## linvillegorge

I'm pretty well tapped out this year. Two weddings to go to and then Hawaii in the fall. There went the travel budget and the vacation time.


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## killclimbz

FUCK! Rando Steve, the guy who runs Teton AT and his partner are missing in Teton park. An avalanche has been spotted on the mountain they were attempting to ski a couloir on. This does not look good.

http://www.jhunderground.com/2012/03/08/rando-steve-missing-in-park/

TetonAT.com

+++vibes for a +++ outcome.


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## DrnknZag

^^Just saw this and was gonna post the same. Damn.

:::::vibes:::::


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## killclimbz

JH Underground has updated the story that the helicopter has found two beacon hits flying low over the avalanche debris. This is really sucking.


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## mjd

that is ominous. it's like no matter where you are there's a death layer hidden in the snowpack this season.


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## linvillegorge

killclimbz said:


> JH Underground has updated the story that the helicopter has found two beacon hits flying low over the avalanche debris. This is really sucking.


Uh oh...


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## Nefarious

> Update 11:55 a.m.: Rangers flying in a helicopter this morning located two beacon signals in a debris field on the south face of Ranger Peak. A team of seven rangers is on the mountain conducting a probe search of the debris, which is said to be a quarter-mile long and wide.


I'm not privy to avalanche knowledge and don't pretend to be. Is that size of a runoff common (compared to a year that isn't so dangerous)?


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## killclimbz

It's not so much the size of the run off. A few avalanches that have killed people this year have been very small. A fifteen foot wide by 30 ft long avalanche killed a person outside of Snowmass this season. You would never think that spot would be a danger. With the way the terrain was featured it was able to bury the victim deep enough. 

That is the thing this year. A good portion of the West got early season snow and then nothing for months. That shallow snow pack along with cooler to cold temps, just rotted. Turned into sugar snow. Then the snow came for real and piled up on top of that super weak layer. The only region that didn't get this was the PNW. Their problems have been with too much snow for the most part. They have some buried weak layers, but not the 1-3 feet of facets that most other areas have. Cali, Nevada, Utah, Colorado, Wyoming, Montana, are all dealing with this. It is also highly unusual and it's catching a lot of vets off guard. Everything you do backcountry riding needs to be thought about a lot before you go for it, then thought about again. Spots that have never been a danger before are sketchy this season. It's one for the books.

As far as deaths go, the average number of avalanche related deaths in the US is 28. If this incident turns out to claim two more victims, we will be at 27. With another solid 2-3 months to go. Looks like we'll be above average. Last year 25 people lost their lives in avalanches in the US. Backcountry riding is rewarding, and amazing. Resort riding doesn't hold a candle to it. If you make a bad choice, no matter how insignificant it seems, it can quite literally be deadly. 

I will also say, even here in Colorado, there is plenty to do that is low risk in regards to avalanches. The problem is people want to get on terrain that isn't so safe. Bad consequence. I don't know if it's because they have ridden it for years, they are goal oriented, or what. I just know it has killed 6 people in this state and will likely kill again before the season is over.


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## killclimbz

Jackson Hole Daily is reporting that two bodies were recovered from the avalanche debris. 

Jackson Hole Daily is reporting that two bodies were recovered from the avalanche debris.

RIP guys.


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## Nefarious

From JHUnderground



> Rangers have recovered two bodies. I have no words to convey the grief many of us are feeling right now. Steve and Chris were fine, outstanding people. My prayers are with them and their family and friends.



Sad day, indeed. It's a shame that this keeps happening. I understand it's inevitable, but it's so much more unnerving when it's people with years of experience who are life-long back country skiers. Vibes to their friends and family.

Thanks for the breakdown, Kill. I have an extreme interest in trying back country, but this year has made me seriously reconsidering waiting a few years. Definitely taking a few avy courses and reading up before I set foot anywhere near the ropes/off the beaten path.


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## killclimbz

Nefarious said:


> Thanks for the breakdown, Kill. I have an extreme interest in trying back country, but this year has made me seriously reconsidering waiting a few years. Definitely taking a few avy courses and reading up before I set foot anywhere near the ropes/off the beaten path.


You're welcome. 

To be honest, in a lot of ways this is a great year to learn. This is a year where when you dig into the snow, it's very apparent what the problem layers are. I've been riding almost exclusively in the backcountry for the past 12 seasons, and this has been a huge learning year for me. Lot's of things we just don't normally see. More knowledge in the memory banks.

You should definitely read some books, it's a great cheap way to learn about the dynamics. Staying Alive in Avalanche Terrain, Snow Sense, and other books are great and teach a lot. 

When you are ready, take a Level 1 course. 3 days of time very well spent.


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## killclimbz

A Colorado skier was killed in Alaska. Bringing us now to the seasonal average for deaths in the US with 28. This is a real drag. From reading some cryptic statements from friends in the avalanche biz, sounds like it was someone fairly well known in the industry. No names on the news report, but I assume we'll know more soon.

Alaska troopers: Colo. skier killed in avalanche | 9news.com


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## killclimbz

Found more info. He was a guide. Robert Liberman. RIP Robert. 

Colo. Skier Killed In Alaska Avalanche - Denver News Story - KMGH Denver


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## killclimbz

Evidently Robert was a DPS ski rep. The industry has been hit hard this year.


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## linvillegorge

I'm over desiring to save this shitty season. Bring on the summer and let's hit the reset button.


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## killclimbz

It just keeps getting worse. The second person caught in the Alaskan avalanche died. A 26yr old snowboarder from Truckee. Unofficial has the news. We are now officially above average for avalanche deaths on the season. 


RIP Nick


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## killclimbz

Damn, I was hoping we were out of the woods around here. A skier was killed in Telluride in a slide. CAIC is calling it a wet slide. I am guessing that it penetrated to the hoar layer and slabbed at some point. Colorado is now officially having an above average season. Hopefully this is the last one. RIP.

News report: 1 dies in backcountry avalanche south of Telluride - The Denver Post


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