# All mountain bindings with reliable ratchets? or Step Ins?



## RaID (Aug 27, 2009)

I'm looking on some advice on a near future binding purchase.

Board: 2010, 161 NS SL
Boots: Salamon Dialogues
Existing Bindings: Salomon Relay Series
Riding: advanced all mountain more aimed at powder, charging groomers, tree runs and generally playing on the terrain. I'll play around in the
park occasionally but very much a beginner there and don't plan to
spend much time.

I'm getting tired of my ratchets jamming and being a massive pain to
undo. I'm currently running some Salomon Relay Series bindings which
feel good but after 40 days use the ratchets on my back leg binding jam
very regulary and this started after about 15-20 days. I'm tired of ruining my gloves and getting sore fingers to undo the bindings. Not to mention that the toe strap is pretty much decintegrated

Hence I'm looking for some new bindings , I'm considering going even
the quick step in option or at least to a binding that has reliable
ratchets.

What do you guys recommend?

For step ins are Flows the only way to go? Are the GNU or K2 versions
reliable? The 2013 Flow NXT-GT or RS with the toe cap look the goods. I could probably wait around for those especially since you can unbuckle them traditionally when stuck in powder.

Otherwise if I see a good local deal on a traditional binding I'll
probably jump on that. Im doing the season in Hakuba, Japan hence it is unlikely I will find something at a reasonable price.

So the bindings I was looking at are SF45, TT30 or Force SLs.
How are the ratchets on those bindings? I'm looking at a more
responsive binding. Any other models I should be looking at?

Or should I just wait for the 2013 Flow GT or RS

Cheers for your help


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## jasyn (Dec 28, 2008)

union force's worked well for 2 years for me on the same board. i'm on ride capo's now and they are great imo. i'm not a fan of step in's.


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## Leo (Nov 24, 2009)

Wait for the Flow NX2 reviews to start coming in if you are interested in rear-entry bindings. I'll be demoing them myself in a couple of weeks followed by a review.

They are poised to silence haters/skeptics.


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## Riley212 (Nov 9, 2011)

It is probably going to be worth it to wait for the '13 flows to come out. I already know what my setup will be for next year (flow NX2Se/NS Cobra).

But, i really like my burton cartels, they have worked flawlessly thusfar, and the ratchets are smooth and never have gotten stuck, they are like butter on and off.


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## KIRKRIDER (Mar 18, 2008)

K2ctx worked great so far. about 30 days riding


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## Snurf (Jan 23, 2012)

+1 for the Cartels. I have had a set since 06 that are still going strong and I ride about 35 days a year. I've replaced a few ladder straps (stepped on one or two in very cold conditions and they snapped and I stripped one ladder), replaced an ankle strap buckle that got stickly and replaced a lost highback screw (my own fault for letting it get too loose). 

I am very happy with the performance of the bindings and even though I ride in a number of places that don't have a lot of fully equipped snowboard shops I have always been able to find parts. I really haven't had many issues in 5 or 6 years with the Cartels but its Murphy's Law, whatever spares I have with me don't fix the problem. 

I bought a new set of Cartel Reflexes this year - can't comment on their durability yet but they are performing well so far. Interesting that even at full price they were cheaper this year.


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## pwol (Mar 7, 2011)

I've only taken this setup out twice, but I really like my NS SL 161 / Cartel / Salamon Synapse(wide) combo












before picking the cartels I was looking at raiden phantoms, 390boss, targas, SF4s, and a couple other ones. I actually bought SF45s before the cartels, just gotta return them.


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## GorgeDad (Jan 24, 2011)

Ratchets stop being a problem with Flows (so does pain). As mentioned above, they have some apparently awesome improvements for 2013 if you can wait.


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## redlude97 (Jan 9, 2008)

Rome and Burton binding ratchets are always buttery smooth to me. I like Rides also but some people complain about difficulty releasing


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## jliu (Jan 20, 2009)

redlude97 said:


> Rome and Burton binding ratchets are always buttery smooth to me. I like Rides also but some people complain about difficulty releasing


Rome...buttery...but to the point of releasing when you dont want them too! Burton rachets are probably the best in the business imo (haters are gonna hate). Smooth in and out...no releasing issues. I find the spring in the rachets are strong too. I find myself going back to burton bindings b/c of the rachets...cause like the OP...i hate un-smooth rachets.


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## hikeswithdogs (Sep 23, 2011)

Rear entries are great if your in and out of your bindings frequently but being out west where I may only strap in and out 10-12 times a day and am primarily riding steeps+powder or lots of side\backcountry I'd satay away from rear entry beyond that go for it if you have the cash check out the new flows that have more a clamshell approach rather than just a fold down high back.


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## redlude97 (Jan 9, 2008)

jliu said:


> Rome...buttery...but to the point of releasing when you dont want them too! Burton rachets are probably the best in the business imo (haters are gonna hate). Smooth in and out...no releasing issues. I find the spring in the rachets are strong too. I find myself going back to burton bindings b/c of the rachets...cause like the OP...i hate un-smooth rachets.


I've charged some pretty hard stuff with Targas and 390s and have never had a Rome ratchet release. I'm 180lbs also so not a twig. Albeit these are pre 09, not sure about the new stuff


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## jliu (Jan 20, 2009)

redlude97 said:


> I've charged some pretty hard stuff with Targas and 390s and have never had a Rome ratchet release. I'm 180lbs also so not a twig. Albeit these are pre 09, not sure about the new stuff


I think you said the magic term..."pre 09". My buddy too has like 07 or 08 targas..burly to say the least. Taken a beating...and his rachets are pretty solid. Mine, not so much...plus a couple of guys that I've talked to in lift lines with the newer models find the same issue.


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## Rufus (Nov 7, 2008)

jliu said:


> Burton rachets are probably the best in the business imo (haters are gonna hate). Smooth in and out...no releasing issues. I find the spring in the rachets are strong too. I find myself going back to burton bindings b/c of the rachets...cause like the OP...i hate un-smooth rachets.


This is exactly why I keep coming back to Burton after trying others. I've been teaching the past couple of seasons and haven't found any other brand that's faster and easier than Burton when you strap in frequently. I'm riding Missions and Cartels this year and loving both of them.


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## LuckyRVA (Jan 18, 2011)

Rufus said:


> This is exactly why I keep coming back to Burton after trying others. I've been teaching the past couple of seasons and haven't found any other brand that's faster and easier than Burton when you strap in frequently. I'm riding Missions and Cartels this year and loving both of them.



I switched from Burton Customs to Flux Sf45's this year. The Flux bindings are more comfortable in general (could be due to them being a higher end binding) but the ratchets on the Customs was like butter.


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## Rufus (Nov 7, 2008)

LuckyRVA said:


> I switched from Burton Customs to Flux Sf45's this year. The Flux bindings are more comfortable in general (could be due to them being a higher end binding) but the ratchets on the Customs was like butter.


I tried Flux last season and I agree that they were comfy, they were just not nearly as smooth as the Burtons for getting in and out often. I also had issues with the durability of the Flux bindings and their customer service.


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## easton714 (Dec 28, 2011)

jliu said:


> I think you said the magic term..."pre 09". My buddy too has like 07 or 08 targas..burly to say the least. Taken a beating...and his rachets are pretty solid. Mine, not so much...plus a couple of guys that I've talked to in lift lines with the newer models find the same issue.



I have current model Targas and the only issues I've had are cosmetic. I love the straps and the ratchets. They are the best binding I've ever ridden.

To each his own, I guess.


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## NoahO (Jan 22, 2012)

2012 Cartels have been awesome for me all mountain.


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## Matt578 (May 1, 2011)

I've been riding Burton Freestyles, and the ratchets are complete butter! I've heard that Burton has the best ratchets, but other companies (like Union) have better overall bindings. I think the SL's are a good bet, but I have yet to try rear-entries.

And honestly, I know Freestlyes probably suck (badly,) but they work well for all-mountain and the toe strap is both a cap/toe strap. They are very comfortable, too.


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## Extremo (Nov 6, 2008)

Best ratchets I've come across is by Union. Ratcheting better than Burton Cartel's, Flux, Technine's, and Drake's. 

I'd go with the Union Atlas.


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## donkey (Feb 2, 2011)

Extremo said:


> Best ratchets I've come across is by Union. Ratcheting better than Burton Cartel's, Flux, Technine's, and Drake's.
> 
> I'd go with the Union Atlas.



What year Unions were you riding, I have the 2010 Union Forces and my experiences with getting out with the ratchets are terrible, I have to pull pretty hard for the ratchets to let me loose. Same goes for the Contact Pros i've ridden. I guess everyone has different experiences and this is why I am trying to find a GOOD binding to go with my Proto CT this year, i'm looking at Burton Cartels, Ride Capos or Rome Targas. My riding style mainly is mostly freeriding and almost no park, but i'll go to park if my friends want to, not my first choice though.


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## Extremo (Nov 6, 2008)

donkey said:


> What year Unions were you riding, I have the 2010 Union Forces and my experiences with getting out with the ratchets are terrible, I have to pull pretty hard for the ratchets to let me loose. Same goes for the Contact Pros i've ridden. I guess everyone has different experiences and this is why I am trying to find a GOOD binding to go with my Proto CT this year, i'm looking at Burton Cartels, Ride Capos or Rome Targas. My riding style mainly is mostly freeriding and almost no park, but i'll go to park if my friends want to, not my first choice though.


I'm on 2009's but from what I can tell they haven't changed the ratchets since that model. Releasing the toe strap sometime's isn't as easy as other bindings, but I've never had any problems with them sticking. But ratcheting them down is much better than my cartel's, which skip on the toe strap as it gets tighter, and smoother than my flux, which only move about one click at a time.


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## NWBoarder (Jan 10, 2010)

I'll play along. I've only owned Cartels and my Union Flites, but I've ridden a few others as well. My Cartels were great, but the ladders had issues after a while. My Unions have been issue free. However, the straps on my cartels were a bit more comfortable. The toe strap on my Unions can pinch a little if I miss the placement for it, but it's not a deal breaker, and easily solved on hill. But really, it's all hit and miss with any brand. Everyone's experience will vary. To sum it all up, I haven't bothered with my Cartels since getting my Union's.


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## RaID (Aug 27, 2009)

Thanks for the suggestions guys,

I'll wait for the reviews on the Flow NX2, in the mean time if I see a good deal on Cartel Re:Flex, SF45s or Union Force SL or Atlas I might jump on it.


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## jliu (Jan 20, 2009)

Extremo said:


> I'm on 2009's but from what I can tell they haven't changed the ratchets since that model. Releasing the toe strap sometime's isn't as easy as other bindings, but I've never had any problems with them sticking. But ratcheting them down is much better than my cartel's, which skip on the toe strap as it gets tighter, and smoother than my flux, which only move about one click at a time.


Union ratchets do feel good when ratcheting down. The ankle strap release isnt bad either...but toe ratchet....worst ever. Why they don't make it a dual component release boggles me...especially for ppl who are dropping 300+ on MCs. The fact they have to deal w/ a single component toe ratchet is pretty weak. Put a smaller version of their ankle ratchet on the toe cap...and there you have it.

As to changes in the ratchet design...I think Johan in some of his older vids said they changed the internal workings w/ different springs to reduce "reeving" in his words :dunno:


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## Extremo (Nov 6, 2008)

jliu said:


> Union ratchets do feel good when ratcheting down. The ankle strap release isnt bad either...but toe ratchet....worst ever. Why they don't make it a dual component release boggles me...especially for ppl who are dropping 300+ on MCs. The fact they have to deal w/ a single component toe ratchet is pretty weak. Put a smaller version of their ankle ratchet on the toe cap...and there you have it.
> 
> As to changes in the ratchet design...I think Johan in some of his older vids said they changed the internal workings w/ different springs to reduce "reeving" in his words :dunno:


Dual componenent toe ratchets skip and strip, Flux and Burton are both good examples. I've never had any problems with releasing the toe ratchets on my force.


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