# snow conditions for nice carving



## Mr.Zywall (Jan 5, 2017)

How much of a difference does snow conditions make on one's ability to do deep dynamic carving?

I ask because I'm having a hard time with proper carves on the first or second run when the chair lifts open, where the snow is freshly groomed and still hard/icy. My carving attempts end up looking half-assed and some of the motion ends up being a skid. Do I just suck at carving, or is this normal for hard snow conditions?


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## Fielding (Feb 15, 2015)

Most dedicated carvers like freshly groomed, fairly hard snow. Most people who are learning to carve seem to like softer snow, the kind that comes around later in the day after temps have warmed up. 

Carving on perfect cord is an opportunity to focus on edge control in perfect isolation because you aren't having to absorb bumps and go over ruts.


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## speedjason (May 2, 2013)

Well you want the snow to be dense but not icy of course.
When the snow is hard packed, the transition is very important. You want the transition to be smooth especially when disengaging one edge and engaging the other.


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## f00bar (Mar 6, 2014)

Yellow.

10char;


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## Mr.Zywall (Jan 5, 2017)

ok i just suck then lol


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## Mr.Zywall (Jan 5, 2017)

Maybe I can't differentiate between groomed, dense snow, and icy.

I'm in southern california, snowboard at bear mountain and snow summit (I have no experience at any other resort, so I can't compare snow quality). Morning runs right when the lift opens feels more like icy to me rather than hardpacked dense snow because when doing some skidding or hard braking, not much snow shoots up.

My idea of dense snow that's good for carving is when it snows and people snowboard over this powder many times until it gets packed down. That's contrasted with a groomed run and left to freeze/harden for a while before the lift opens, and this feels more icy to me than "dense snow". So do groomed runs in socal feel any different than east coast groomed runs?


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

Mr.Zywall said:


> Maybe I can't differentiate between groomed, dense snow, and icy.
> 
> I'm in southern california, snowboard at bear mountain and snow summit (I have no experience at any other resort, so I can't compare snow quality). Morning runs right when the lift opens feels more like icy to me rather than hardpacked dense snow because when doing some skidding or hard braking, not much snow shoots up.
> 
> My idea of dense snow that's good for carving is when it snows and people snowboard over this powder many times until it gets packed down. That's contrasted with a groomed run and left to freeze/harden for a while before the lift opens, and this feels more icy to me than "dense snow". So do groomed runs in socal feel any different than east coast groomed runs?


Soft snow: your carve is several inches deep. Easy to do as the snow hepls to keep you in the rail. Fun, but deep drawn out carves also slow you down a lot.

Hardpack: you'll leave only a ~1in deep line. Harder to do cos it needs more precision. But I like it better cos it's a way faster surface, carves don't slow one down. It's super fun to do fast carves in re-frozen freshly groomed cheese grater runs IMO.

Ice: your edge leaves no depht of cut, only barly a mark where you did the carve. Very hard to carve cos it requires absolut precision. The surface won't compensate for any off balance edge movement. As soon as you weight the edge out of radius, you slip. I still suck at carving ice after 15y practicing


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## Argo (Feb 25, 2010)

I hate riding fast.


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

Argo said:


> I hate riding fast.


Lol! :grin:


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## BoardieK (Dec 21, 2015)

neni said:


> Soft snow: your carve is several inches deep. Easy to do as the snow hepls to keep you in the rail. Fun, but deep drawn out carves also slow you down a lot.
> 
> Hardpack: you'll leave only a ~1in deep line. Harder to do cos it needs more precision. But I like it better cos it's a way faster surface, carves don't slow one down. It's super fun to do fast carves in re-frozen freshly groomed cheese grater runs IMO.
> 
> Ice: your edge leaves no depht of cut, only barly a mark where you did the carve. Very hard to carve cos it requires absolut precision. The surface won't compensate for any off balance edge movement. As soon as you weight the edge out of radius, you slip. I still suck at carving ice after 15y practicing


Nice answer, going back to first principles. However, I've always thought of hardpack as being a somewhat harder than you describe and that your 1" groove would be in another category called "perfect pack" (?)

I've just returned from 2 months in France where (so far as pistes are concerned) I had about 5 mornings of unpisted powder on piste, 5 days of soft piste, 3 days of "perfect pack" and the rest was hard-hardpack or icy hard hardpack. ie mostly crap. It got so warm in late February that afternoon slush was another category altogether.


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## ridinbend (Aug 2, 2012)

So Cal freshly groomed runs can be tough, I learned up there myself. If you really want to get better, take an intermediate or advanced lesson to have someone better than you provide some insight into what you are and aren't doing correctly. Keep on keeping on.


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