# Burton EST bindings (first bindings ever)



## MarijnG (Oct 18, 2012)

Hello all

I just bought a Burton 2012 Hero 155cm board and i have Rome Libertine boots (44,5 cm).
Now i'm looking for Bindings that are matching with the EST system.

I'm looking at the Burton Mission & Burton Custom.

I'm a low-weight person, and in the shop they advice me because of that to go for the Custom bindings, but if i look at some pictures i noticed the Missions are a bit stronger? they look stronger...


Hopefully someone can help me!

Thanks!
Marijn


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## poutanen (Dec 22, 2011)

MarijnG said:


> I just bought a Burton 2012 Hero 155cm board and i have Rome Libertine boots (44,5 cm).
> Now i'm looking for Bindings that are matching with the EST system.
> 
> I'm looking at the Burton Mission & Burton Custom.


All Burton bindings should be similar in "strength" baseplates are guaranteed for life, I've heard of issues with the highback on the Diodes but you're not looking at those, and I'd also expect the ratchets and ladders to be better on the more expensive bindings.

That said: The missions have a feel rating of 6, the customs have a feel rating of 4, the board you bought has a feel rating of 3 I'm pretty sure, so the customs would probably be a much better match.

Hope this helps!


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## MarijnG (Oct 18, 2012)

Thanks!

This is the board but only is the bottom green instead of yellow
http://vimeo.com/43464575

Would the Royal Blue custom EST 2013 match? (colors only then)
http://www.owsports.ca/winter-2012-2013/mens-snowboard/mens-snowboard-bindings/burton-mens-custom-est-snowboard-bindings/


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## PayneSkillet (Nov 4, 2012)

ive got a pair of brand new in box size L customs for cheap


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## MarijnG (Oct 18, 2012)

Thanks, i think i'm going for the "Royal Blue" ones from 2013! that would match bit the Hero, no? Here's a picture of it (the one on the picture is not the EST version but it's just for the colors)


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## MarijnG (Oct 18, 2012)

Would it be a bad idea to go for Cartels for all-mountain use?
I can have the 2012 model for 180 euro's (new)


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## poutanen (Dec 22, 2011)

MarijnG said:


> Would it be a bad idea to go for Cartels for all-mountain use?
> I can have the 2012 model for 180 euro's (new)


Nothing wrong with them... they may be a little stiff for the board but it's not going to be unrideable or anything.


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## MarijnG (Oct 18, 2012)

I'm afraid the board is already very flexy for me (allmountain, pistes & powder), i'm not really into freestyle.
So i think the Cartels are just fine then, is that right?

Thanks for the reply!


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## Alkasquawlik (Jul 13, 2010)

MarijnG said:


> I'm afraid the board is already very flexy for me (allmountain, pistes & powder), i'm not really into freestyle.
> So i think the Cartels are just fine then, is that right?
> 
> Thanks for the reply!


Cartels are a solid, mid-stiff binding that will be great all over the mountain, whether that's in the park or riding around off-piste/groomers. It's one of Burton's best selling bindings for a reason.

They will be more responsive than both the Customs and the Missions, due to being a stiffer binding, overall.

You'll be fine, don't worry.

I have no idea where this theory that "matching" board and binding ratings came from. It's a huge, huge generalization, and shouldn't be used.

Both the Customs and Missions are solid bindings as well, just not as stiff/responsive as the Force. They'll both be "strong", so don't worry about that. The main differences between the two is that the Custom is a basic, no-frills binding whereas the Mission is a bit more responsive, and has some added tech featues like the Asym highback and an Asym ankle strap (on the Restricted models) and in the snowboard industry, you pay for the added tech.


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## koyota93 (Nov 8, 2012)

If you are getting this year's Cartel, I would look for the regional love restricted model. Those come with the upgraded Genesis strap. They also have the same base as the Malavita (not sure if all '13 Cartels are this way).


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## MarijnG (Oct 18, 2012)

Thanks for the clear explaining! i meaned the 2012 Cartels, so the ones from last year.

This one, in black: Burton Cartel Est 11/12 is online beschikbaar in de Blue Tomato Shop


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## poutanen (Dec 22, 2011)

Alkasquawlik said:


> I have no idea where this theory that "matching" board and binding ratings came from. It's a huge, huge generalization, and shouldn't be used.


You ever rode stiff bindings on a wet noodle or vice versa?


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## Alkasquawlik (Jul 13, 2010)

poutanen said:


> You ever rode stiff bindings on a wet noodle or vice versa?


Yup.

90% rider, 10% board.

Get with the program here. There are no "rules" that say you can't put stiffer bindings on a softer board, it all comes down to personal preferences. If someone wants to rock Diodes or Chargers on an Artifact or Horrorscope, more power to them. That's not what I would personally ride, but who is to say that set up doesn't work for someone else?

We're all just sliding down frozen water on pieces of wood anyway..


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## MarijnG (Oct 18, 2012)

I'm quite new into snowboarding (1 week austria and 3 times indoor) and i always rented a board before, so i don't know how they gonna feel etc. but i read good things about the cartels..


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## Alkasquawlik (Jul 13, 2010)

MarijnG said:


> I'm quite new into snowboarding (1 week austria and 3 times indoor) and i always rented a board before, so i don't know how they gonna feel etc. but i read good things about the cartels..


You won't be able to tell a difference between the bindings, unless you rode them back-to-back-to-back and even then, I don't think you'd notice anything just due to you being a newer rider.

Any of those bindings will be awesome for you, and they'll all last a few seasons as well. It just comes down to what you personally want to get and how much you want to spend.

You can't go wrong with any 3 of those bindings, but I think you'll really like the Cartels. Like I said, they're not one of Burton's best selling bindings for no reason.

Have fun!


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## matty19 (Nov 19, 2010)

I'd be pretty confident that any est binder you choose will do the job. As for color, in my experience Burton's colors tend to be pretty consistent within a model year.

And just a note: this year's Missions have the high back from last year's Cartels. The two bindings are pretty similar, with the Cartels having slightly upgraded straps and buckles, and the Missions being a hair softer.

Also, remember that most other binding companies have adapter plates that allow for "normal" disk bindings to interface with the Burton ICS deal.


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## I<3snowp0rn (Nov 8, 2012)

Maybe I'm talking about a few yrs ago tech, but I thought mission and cartel had a superstrap and the custom had some basic ankle strap? Basically, the Mission and Cartel are more comfortable compared to the Custom. And based on the OPs experience and what Alkasqualik said, they will all feel the same unless you ride them back to back and compare.

I'm sure you'll have fun on the snow with any of those bindings you choose.


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## phony_stark (Jul 2, 2011)

Custom does have a different strap it's called the Lush strap. I haven't ridden it, but I know the superstrap and asym superstrap on the missions/malavitas and cartels are pretty darn comfy.

Also, Alka is right, you can make any binding work on your board (I do prefer to be on the stiffer side than the softer side though), it's preference. There's no ideal matching.

I say missions/cartels. The hero you have has squeezebox so it can't be softer than the hero I demo'd in 2011 and the bindings on those were the Missions which, that year were pretty stiff...rode great.

Not to be a cynic, but you'll also be able to sell those more easily than the customon the ebays or craigslists or right here, if you want different bindings.


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## MarijnG (Oct 18, 2012)

Yes! thanks for all the replies here, great!
I just ordered the 2012 cartels (black, large).


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## poutanen (Dec 22, 2011)

Alkasquawlik said:


> We're all just sliding down frozen water on pieces of wood anyway..


Not I!!! :cheeky4: No wood in my board.


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## qwezxc12 (Oct 24, 2010)

koyota93 said:


> If you are getting this year's Cartel, I would look for the regional love restricted model. Those come with the upgraded Genesis strap. They also have the same base as the Malavita (not sure if all '13 Cartels are this way).


Wrong. The '13 EST Cartels can't have the same baseplate as the Malavita... EST Malavitas have the hinge, and '13 EST Cartels (restricted or otherwise) do not.

Early release 2014 EST Cartels do have the hinge. I just bought a pair to try:
2014 Burton Cartels

Maybe the non-EST ones share baseplates, but the OP asked about EST.


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## koyota93 (Nov 8, 2012)

qwezxc12 said:


> Wrong. The '13 EST Cartels can't have the same baseplate as the Malavita... EST Malavitas have the hinge, and '13 EST Cartels (restricted or otherwise) do not.
> 
> Early release 2014 EST Cartels do have the hinge. I just bought a pair to try:
> 2014 Burton Cartels
> ...


My bad. The regional love version is Reflex, Non-EST. Sorry for the confusion.
These are the ones I was referring to: Burton [Early 2014] Cartel Regional - Love Quebec - WWW.ALTERNATIVE113.COM


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## Supra (Jan 11, 2012)

Don't feel bad koyota - your post was correct. You didn't say anything was est and I agree with your rec. the regional loves are the best cartel to get right now. The best part is they ride the same as est's, are cheaper and can be used on non-burton boards!


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## poutanen (Dec 22, 2011)

Alkasquawlik said:


> Get with the program here. There are no "rules" that say you can't put stiffer bindings on a softer board, it all comes down to personal preferences. If someone wants to rock Diodes or Chargers on an Artifact or Horrorscope, more power to them. That's not what I would personally ride, but who is to say that set up doesn't work for someone else?


Found an interesting eBay find relavent to our discussion...

Burton Feelgood Est Women's Snowboard 140cm w Burton C60 Est Bindings Snow NR | eBay

It's a Womens Burton Feelgood 140cm with C60 bindings on it. That's a board designed for a 105 pound girl, with bindings designed for a 170 pound man. It obviously "worked" for her but you can't tell me that it was anywhere close to ideal.

It's like putting race tires on a pinto. Sure you CAN do it, but you've past the point of diminishing gains long ago.

It DOES make sense to try to match your gear. :cheeky4:


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## MarijnG (Oct 18, 2012)

Too late, i just received the Cartels...


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## poutanen (Dec 22, 2011)

MarijnG said:


> Too late, i just received the Cartels...


Nothing wrong with the Cartels for your needs. I just was making the point that it does make sense to roughly align stiffness in the three components of your setup.


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## koyota93 (Nov 8, 2012)

poutanen said:


> Found an interesting eBay find relavent to our discussion...
> 
> Burton Feelgood Est Women's Snowboard 140cm w Burton C60 Est Bindings Snow NR | eBay
> 
> ...


I think you are taking it to the extreme. Obviously that is not an ideal set up. I think the message Alka is trying to convey is binding stiffness is largely user preference.

For instance for a Burton Custom board, you can ride it with Cobra Sharks, Customs, Missions, Cartels, Malavitas, etc. I think most of us could agree that any of those bindings would for the most part pair with the Custom. It's up to the user to decide the best binding with the features, stiffness, and price point.


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## poutanen (Dec 22, 2011)

koyota93 said:


> For instance for a Burton Custom board, you can ride it with Cobra Sharks, Customs, Missions, Cartels, Malavitas, etc. I think most of us could agree that any of those bindings would for the most part pair with the Custom. It's up to the user to decide the best binding with the features, stiffness, and price point.


Yeah but a Burton Custom is a 5, right in the very middle, so obviously anything that isn't at either extreme end of the spectrum will work fine with it.

The OP was pairing a soft board with two options in bindings. One of them stiffer than the other. Sure it will work to have a stiff binding on a soft board, but in general you'd want to have a more closely matched setup.

If anything it's just a waste paying more to get stiff bindings for a soft board or vise versa. :dunno:


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## hktrdr (Apr 3, 2012)

Alkasquawlik said:


> I have no idea where this theory that "matching" board and binding ratings came from. It's a huge, huge generalization, and shouldn't be used.


+1. In fact, there are plenty of examples where it makes perfect sense to have a mismatch in flex between bindings, board, and boot.


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## Alkasquawlik (Jul 13, 2010)

poutanen said:


> Found an interesting eBay find relavent to our discussion...
> 
> Burton Feelgood Est Women's Snowboard 140cm w Burton C60 Est Bindings Snow NR | eBay
> 
> ...


Who are you to tell me, or her, that that setup wasn't ideal for her and her riding style? Who cares who/what the specific product was designed for, if you enjoy riding it, why is it "wrong"?

Like I said, there are no rules in snowboarding. Ride whatever gear you want.

You seem quite fixated on proving me wrong...with eBay links...


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## poutanen (Dec 22, 2011)

Alkasquawlik said:


> Who are you to tell me, or her, that that setup wasn't ideal for her and her riding style? Who cares who/what the specific product was designed for, if you enjoy riding it, why is it "wrong"?
> 
> Like I said, there are no rules in snowboarding. Ride whatever gear you want.
> 
> You seem quite fixated on proving me wrong...with eBay links...


Actually I've got a saved eBay search for C60's (trying to find a specific pair) and when I saw this come up I couldn't resist. She's got $500 bindings on a $500 board...

But hey, to each their own I guess?!? :dunno:

Now to go install all terrain mudder tires on my lowered celica to drive it on ice...


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## Alkasquawlik (Jul 13, 2010)

poutanen said:


> Actually I've got a saved eBay search for C60's (trying to find a specific pair) and when I saw this come up I couldn't resist. She's got $500 bindings on a $500 board...
> 
> *But hey, to each their own I guess?!?* :dunno:
> 
> Now to go install all terrain mudder tires on my lowered celica to drive it on ice...


Now you're getting it...

Glad that my "educating" here is actually working.


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## koyota93 (Nov 8, 2012)

Alkasquawlik said:


> You seem quite fixated on proving me wrong...with eBay links...


:thumbsup: Haha.


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## poutanen (Dec 22, 2011)

Alkasquawlik said:


> Now you're getting it...
> 
> Glad that my "educating" here is actually working.


I still think it's assinine to have the stiffest binding the company makes for men, on a small girls board. Sure there's nothing "wrong" with it and of course you can do it.

But there's also nothing wrong with compact car owners cutting their springs but retaining stock shocks/struts. Sure it's personal preference but it's far from ideal.

Friends don't let friends put soft bindings on a stiff board. 











koyota93 said:


> :thumbsup: Haha.


It wasn't that funny. :cheeky4: What's wrong with eBay?


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## Alkasquawlik (Jul 13, 2010)

poutanen said:


> I still think it's assinine to have the stiffest binding the company makes for men, on a small girls board. Sure there's nothing "wrong" with it and of course you can do it.
> 
> But there's also nothing wrong with compact car owners cutting their springs but retaining stock shocks/struts. Sure it's personal preference but it's far from ideal.
> 
> ...


I wasn't aware that you had ridden a Feelgood, paired with C60s, so you could tell me what's "ideal".

Your preferences and ideal setup =/= everyone else's

Who is to say that a short, light girl rode that setup and is a ripping rider, and could handle those C60s..

Come on, son. Get with the program.


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## poutanen (Dec 22, 2011)

Alkasquawlik said:


> I wasn't aware that you had ridden a Feelgood, paired with C60s, so you could tell me what's "ideal".
> 
> Your preferences and ideal setup =/= everyone else's
> 
> ...


Listen son, I don't have to jump off a bridge to have an idea how it feels. :cheeky4:


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## Supra (Jan 11, 2012)

Well, the feel good is the equivalent of the custom, and I'm sure it'd be ok in your books if someone put c60's on a custom, right? Anyways, you can't make any conclusions from that listing because 1) maybe the seller just put the bindings on there to help the sale 2) maybe the girl has ankle problems and needs the stiffest bindings she can find 3) maybe the girl got cheated on by the bf and she rode his c60's to trash them a bit and then to sell them 4) maybe she's into bordercross


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## poutanen (Dec 22, 2011)

Or: 

5) She bought a board and then asked some sales guy what the best bindings were, and he sold her those...

And I wouldn't bother putting C60's on a Custom. The Custom X sure but seems like overkill for the plain jane custom. Just so nobody gets upity sure they'll WORK, and it's all personal preference. But I wouldn't do it.


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## hktrdr (Apr 3, 2012)

poutanen said:


> Or:
> 
> 5) She bought a board and then asked some sales guy what the best bindings were, and he sold her those...
> 
> And I wouldn't bother putting C60's on a Custom. The Custom X sure but seems like overkill for the plain jane custom. Just so nobody gets upity sure they'll WORK, and it's all personal preference. But I wouldn't do it.


C60s (no apostrophe for plural BTW) on a Custom can make perfect sense depending depending on rider needs and preferences. Conversely, there are situations that call for a soft-ish binding on a stiff stick
Please stop this matching nonsense.


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## poutanen (Dec 22, 2011)

hktrdr said:


> Please stop this matching nonsense.


NEVER!!! :cheeky4: My opinion differs from yours and the main purpose of the internet is to argue something to death with no logical conclusion being reached! 

Okay I'm done, I'm heading to the store to buy the softest bindings I can get for my new BX board.


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## MarijnG (Oct 18, 2012)

I have the cartels now and indeed, they are stiff! thinking about sending them back and get the customs..
I also received my Burton Hero and it's a flexible board so it's maybe not so logical to put the stiffy cartels on it... (like you guys said)

My rome boots (libertines) are also loose/flexibe so it's stupid, right?


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## hktrdr (Apr 3, 2012)

MarijnG said:


> I have the cartels now *and indeed, they are stiff!* thinking about sending them back and get the customs..


What is your basis for saying that?


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## MarijnG (Oct 18, 2012)

I didn't test them on snow but just screwed them on my board...
It's true that i don't really have a basis to say that.. they just feel stiff but i don't know if that's good or bad.. have to test it first i think.


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## Lamps (Sep 3, 2011)

poutanen said:


> Found an interesting eBay find relavent to our discussion...
> 
> Burton Feelgood Est Women's Snowboard 140cm w Burton C60 Est Bindings Snow NR | eBay
> 
> ...


First off, feelgood isn't a soft board, more in the middle and if its the cambered version I can see the argument for stiff bindings, fits with camber more so than rockered. 

I could easily see that being an ideal setup for an aggressive advanced female rider, it's a poor example of mismatched gear. Super stiff boots or bindings matched to a pure park board might now be the best match. 

I run c60's on both my boards so I have consistent feel, one less variable to worry about. One board is a Sherlock and it works fine.


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## Lamps (Sep 3, 2011)

MarijnG said:


> I didn't test them on snow but just screwed them on my board...
> It's true that i don't really have a basis to say that.. they just feel stiff but i don't know if that's good or bad.. have to test it first i think.


Yes Marijn, I can tell from thousands of miles away what you really need is some snow and to take this stuff you bought and ride it. Lots of us are going crazy waiting for snow. You have great setup have lots of fun with it.


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## MarijnG (Oct 18, 2012)

Hm, i'm reading some comments from other guys/shops and i'm afraid they ARE too stiff for the board and i don't get 100% out of it with the cartels..
I'm thinking to order the customs, because i have only 2 weeks to send the Cartels back.. difficult! aaaa


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## snowklinger (Aug 30, 2011)

MarijnG said:


> Hm, i'm reading some comments from other guys/shops and i'm afraid they ARE too stiff for the board and i don't get 100% out of it with the cartels..
> I'm thinking to order the customs, because i have only 2 weeks to send the Cartels back.. difficult! aaaa


Those cartels are sick do it all bindings. Any shortcoming they have is surely rider induced.

You should send them back for sure.:thumbsdown:

Unless you are on the pro level, but then you wouldn't be considering the advice of a bunch of keyboard jockeys then would you.


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## MarijnG (Oct 18, 2012)

you mean "shouldn't send them back", right?


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## snowklinger (Aug 30, 2011)

MarijnG said:


> you mean "shouldn't send them back", right?


haha yea, those are sick bindings! I mean sure if you want to send them back for a lower end pair...unless you are pulling off video level jib shit and know better, those things are going to do great for you.


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## MarijnG (Oct 18, 2012)

Hey all,
I went 3 days to Val Thorens with my new complete board, and i love it.
the only thing is i have only a few rachets to click on the straps, so they are OK but i really have to make sure that they are tight enough.

I found out turning was not so easy, i really have to be a bit agressive (because my low weight i think).
What can i do about that? My stance is in the middle of the board & the angles are the standard 15 & 9.

Thanks!


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