# bern hard hat protection level



## Guest

Edit* No, the hard hat version does not have any snow sport safety rating.


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## Slaughterhouse

Ok, they look sweet and all but I personally wouldn't trust them as far as a helmet is concerned unless it has the EPS liner. The "Brock" liner hasn't passed any safety standards. Some of the helmets are listed as a hard hat because they can't claim a safety standard they haven't passed. The hard hat label is a clear warning to the person purchasing these helmets; you have no recourse if injured in such a way that a properly tested and certified helmet could have prevented.


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## Guest

I apologize for my earlier post. After further research I have discovered what is going on with this helmet. It is available in Brock Hard hat foam and also in EPS foam. The helmet with the EPS is ASTM 2040 certified for snow so it would be legit. The Hard hat version is not. I would say return the helmet if it is for sure the Hard Hat version. Sorry.


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## Guest

thanks for the replies and edits. just to make sure, are we talking fairly worthless protection? or just unprotected from 10' slams out of the pipe? slaughter, you gave a ton of awesome info...care to lend your opinion as well?


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## Guest

I would say fairly worthless bro. The hard hat ratings are made for stuff following down on your head and are not designed for multiple impacts. What you could do, is see how much the EPS liner is online. If you purchased the helmet and put the EPS liner in, it would be a legit helmet. On the other hand, that will most likely cost you what a snowboard specific helmet is gonna cost.

When your getting a helmet, try and find something with an ASTM snow rating. There are a good number of used helmets you can find used/cheap online.


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## romesaz

PapaWood said:


> I would say fairly worthless bro. The hard hat ratings are made for stuff following down on your head and are not designed for multiple impacts. What you could do, is see how much the EPS liner is online. If you purchased the helmet and put the EPS liner in, it would be a legit helmet. On the other hand, that will most likely cost you what a snowboard specific helmet is gonna cost.
> 
> When your getting a helmet, try and find something with an ASTM snow rating. There are a good number of used helmets you can find used/cheap online.


No disrespect but would you feel comfortable wearing a used helmet?
I don't think that is one item you should purchase used. just my 2 cents. Even if it's a multiple impact helmet...


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## Guest

romesaz said:


> Not to crap on your last sentence, but would you feel comfortable wearing a used helmet?
> I don't think that is one item you should purchase used. just my 2 cents. Even if it's a multiple impact helmet...



yeah...buying a used helmet wasn't really ever an option in my head. i stopped by modern skate (local shop) tonight and talked to someone about the bern helmets and she had some good things to say about certifications and how safe helmets are. i'm going to ride it a few times and then decide whether to return it or not. WM return policy ftw.


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## romesaz

My edit failed I see


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## Guest

romesaz said:


> No disrespect but would you feel comfortable wearing a used helmet?
> I don't think that is one item you should purchase used. just my 2 cents. Even if it's a multiple impact helmet...


I have a friend who purchases his helmets used and has no problems. Granted I still believe in not pinching pennies when it comes to helmets, but if you are on a budget you have to make due. I don't feel there is any problem with wearing a used helmets given you have properly inspected the shell and liner for any damage. A lot of times you can also purchase a used shell and find a new liner for very cheap.


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## Slaughterhouse

berg said:


> thanks for the replies and edits. just to make sure, are we talking fairly worthless protection? or just unprotected from 10' slams out of the pipe? slaughter, you gave a ton of awesome info...care to lend your opinion as well?


I personally wouldn't trust my skull with it. I've had quite a few nasty concussions and managed to split a few helmets. One concussion was so bad I couldn't remember how I got down the hill and how I ended back in the lift line. I knew I hit bad when the entire liner of my helmet was fractured with a huge dent in the back of the helmet. I couldn't ride a straight line for a month after that one. It likely would have been much worse in a hard hat. I think the Bern hard hat exists for some park rats that don't like wearing helmets but need to wear them in parks that require them. I've even seen them toss on baseball helmets as the terrain park rules here in Canada don't actually specify WHAT kind of helmet must be worn.


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## Guest

Slaughterhouse said:


> I personally wouldn't trust my skull with it. I've had quite a few nasty concussions and managed to split a few helmets. One concussion was so bad I couldn't remember how I got down the hill and how I ended back in the lift line. I knew I hit bad when the entire liner of my helmet was fractured with a huge dent in the back of the helmet. I couldn't ride a straight line for a month after that one. It likely would have been much worse in a hard hat. I think the Bern hard hat exists for some park rats that don't like wearing helmets but need to wear them in parks that require them. I've even seen them toss on baseball helmets as the terrain park rules here in Canada don't actually specify WHAT kind of helmet must be worn.


yikes, hardcore slaughter. luckily i'm not good enough/ride enough to be that intense yet. what were you doing when you bashed your nog up that bad?


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## Guest

Slaughterhouse said:


> I've even seen them toss on baseball helmets as the terrain park rules here in Canada don't actually specify WHAT kind of helmet must be worn.


[email protected] helmets those things are so useless when it comes to snowboarding they just fly off hahahahaha. i'd feel safer ina catchers mask


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## Slaughterhouse

berg said:


> yikes, hardcore slaughter. luckily i'm not good enough/ride enough to be that intense yet. what were you doing when you bashed your nog up that bad?


Honestly? Being careless. I was in the terrain park at a local hill and just kept hitting this one jump over and over and over again. So I was getting quite comfortable with it and that's when I let my guard down. I approached the jump and just as I was about to take off, I somehow managed to shovel the nose of my board over the lip of the takeoff. So I somersaulted forward landing on my ass on icepack and my head snapped backwards full force on the ground. It sounded like a rifle shot which was the sound of my helmet cracking. I wear sunglasses and the impact was so great the lenses flew out of them. I vaguely remember getting out of the landing zone before someone else dropped in. After that I was standing in the lift line with people behind me. I can't recall to this day how I got down the run (Black diamond). This also was not a large jump by any means. Just a little kicker. So never assume you can't make an error on a small feature!


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## legallyillegal

..........

For future necro-posts, Bern "hard hats" are just as "safe" as any other "helmet."


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## Slaughterhouse

legallyillegal said:


> ..........
> 
> For future necro-posts, Bern "hard hats" are just as "safe" as any other "helmet."


Then why the "hard hat" disclaimer?


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## legallyillegal

Liability issues. Brock foam isn't certified to those asinine "standards."

Certified = You can't sue us, we passes standards weee!
Brock = You can't sue us, we didn't call that thing a helmet weee!

Brock foam is actually pretty neat technology. Breathable + multi-impact.


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## jmacphee9

legallyillegal said:


> Liability issues. Brock foam isn't certified to those asinine "standards."
> 
> Certified = You can't sue us, we passes standards weee!
> Brock = You can't sue us, we didn't call that thing a helmet weee!
> 
> Brock foam is actually pretty neat technology. Breathable + multi-impact.


hes right fellas...brock is pretty neato stuff, use it on hockey equipment quite often. i would say this helmet could definetly protect enough, but the liability of it not cracking is gone..


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## Guest

red= great helmets


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## Guest

*Here is my research on the Bern helmet safety (w/ Brock liner)*

To keep this short, here is what I found. 

Research article from Brock:

"Novel Helmet Liner Technology", Hayden Hernandez , Brock USA, L.L.C. 

http://www.plasticsnews.net/downloads/headpro.pdf

In it, they say the Brock liner is:

1) good for multiple impacts
2) possibly better at preventing concussion vs. single impact rated helmets
3) better airflow
4) neck injury prevention (aka. big super helmet causes your kneck to tweak more upon impact)

I don't claim to comprehend all of it, but it seems like the Brock liner is good for the normal day to day collision, but may not be optimal for "the big one" (maybe, who knows).

Also, be sure the helmet fits snugly. (i.e. no big air pockets, and it doesn't slide around.)

They cite these references:

[1] McIntosh A., McCrory P.: Impact energy attenuation performance of football headgear. British Journal of 
Sports Medicine 34: 337-341, 2000 

[2] Sawin R., Halstead D.P. : Injuries, Protective Equipment and Standards in Ice Hockey. Knoxville, USA. 
2000 <http://www.soimpact.com/safety%20In%Hockey%Paper%20Zurich.htm>. 

[3] Vrynwy-Jones P., Lanuoe B., Pritts D.: SPH-4 U.S. Army flight helmet performance 1983-1987. Fort 
Rucker, AL: U.S. Army Aeromedical Research Laboratory. USAARL Report No. 88-15. 

[4] Halstead D.P., Alexander C.F., Cook E.M., Drew R.: Hockey Headgear and the Adequacy of Current 
Designs and Standards. Safety in Ice Hockey, ASTM STP 1341, A.B. Ashare, Editor, American Society for 
Testing and Materials, 1998. 

[5] Mills N.J., Zhu H.X.: Impact Properties, Low Density Cellular Plastics. Chapman and Hall, London, 1994. 

[6] McEntire J.B.: Biodynamics. Design Issues Biodynamics. Fort Rucker, AL: U.S. Army Aeromedical 
Research Laboratory. USAARL Report No. 7, 2002. 

[7] Snell Testing. 2000 Standard for Protective Headgear. <http://www.smf.org/standards/m2000std.html> 

[8] Hovda D.A., Badie H., Karimi S., et al: Concussive brain injury produces a state of vulnerability for 
intracranial pressure perturbation in the absence of morphological damage. Intracranial Pressure VIII. New 
York, Plenum Press, 1993. 

[9] McCrory P.R., Bladin P.F., Berkovic S.F.: Retrospective study of concussive convulsions in elite Australian 
rules and rugby league footballers: phenomenology, aetiology, and outcome. British Journal of Sports Medicine 
314: 171-4, 1997. 

[10] Mills N.J.: Accident investigation of motorcycle helmets. Journal of the Institute of Traffic Acciden 
Investigators. Volume 5, Autumn 1996 

[11] DiNubile N.A.: Heat and Athletic Activity. 
http://qqq.sportsmed.org/Publications/Stips/heat_and_athletic_activity.htm


My $0.03,
cvrti5


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## jyuen

so what's the verdict? 
are bern hardhat rating helmets safe
i have a bern baker myself, and the helmet looks awesome but if it's not really protecting my head i might as well get something that will

and anyone know what helmet romesaz is wearing in his display pic?


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## Nivek

falconis said:


> red= great helmets


F that. R.E.D. gave me a concussion. Brock foam is more effective from my point of view. The shell of the helmet dissapates the impact shock. The brock foams multi-impact design allows for greater compression than hardfoam. This means your head has more distance and time to slow down. Less change in momentum, less chance of a concussion. I've hit harder in "soft foam" style helmets than I did in my RED. Sure it probably kept me alive, but a soft foam helmet would have kept me riding that day.

I also had one of those really bad hits, got lazy spinning back ones and caught my heels right into icepack. Cracked my helmet. Halfway down the Gondola from Peak 8 at Breck I start freaking out cause I don't know where I am. Then somehow I'm back at my apartment (in Breck, I took busses, no driving for me). Freakin scary. I hit harder later in the season in my Bern HardHat Macon and was perfectly fine.


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## arsenic0

Oh give it up Nivek :/ The helmet didnt give you a concussion sheesh...no helmet will protect 100% depending how you hit...that said i dont see any real issue with the Bern Helmets. Its better than no helmet thats for sure...


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## Nivek

Only losers give up


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## deanoSaur

*Bump!!!*

Holy cow I have been trying to figure out if they are safe my self. I'm in my 3rd year of boarding and am surprisingly good for only riding that long. At the start of the season I realized some of the dangers I over look with snowboarding. I wanna protect my dome. I have hurt my head pretty good just on some ice on a groomed run. What happens if I do something badass and fuck up. Hit me head and go to sleep >_< 


Anyways.. 

I really liked the bern style of helmets but are not sure about them not being certified. Reading some info on the other foam was reassuring though. 

Any others have some input


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## ev13wt

So if they are saftey rated, what exactly is this going to help if you crash and burn?

Do you think a company will bring out soft foam helmets and they suck? I mean, they have a reputation to lose you know... I trust it will be much much safer than a beanie...

There are some helmets that only have a really thin 1/4th inch foam padding. I would say that is not enough.

I have had a couple concussions. I have a brock foam helmet. Sooooo comfy. Hard shell. It will be fine...


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## mesomike

PapaWood said:


> I would say fairly worthless bro. The hard hat ratings are made for stuff following down on your head and are not designed for multiple impacts. QUOTE]
> 
> Wrong. The hard hat is designed for multiple impacts without needing replacing. The foam in the hard hat rebounds. The EPS helmets are made to withstand big impacts, but must be replaced after. The helmet is usless once the foam has been broken. So basically if you worried about a big impact go with the eps, and if your worried about taking several smaller hits go with the hard hat. From what I've heard the hard hats offer a pretty good amount of protection.


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## Vlad Khilchenko

Hi guys,

Sorry for necroposting, just didnt want to start a new thread.

I've got a bern baker hardhat that fits really nice, but after reading some articles found put it's not actually protective enough and is no longer sold.

Is this because lack of certifications bern is no longer selling them?

Thank you in advance for reply!


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