# 2014 Union Factory



## Cyfer

Tell me these don't look awesome, canted footbeds, improved toe ratchets, and improved talked high backs. Super Cush straps, and minimal contact baseplates too. Seems T Rice got his own pro model this year!


----------



## Extremo

They're actually just this year's SuperPro's with canting added. Still the same ratchets. 

The only change to the parts is a new heel cup. 

But def at the top of my list for new gear next season.


----------



## rscott22

I was looking at these or next year's UNION Forces and I really would like canted footbeds, but I wasnt sure how much stiffer the UNION factory binding is compared to the Forces?


----------



## Cyfer

High up on my list for next year. I've tried a lot of bindings but always seem to come back to the old set oh Force Teams I keep just because they are so reliable. My contacts are just a great, this looks like a good mix of the two if the base plate similar to the contact.


----------



## Extremo

rscott22 said:


> I was looking at these or next year's UNION Forces and I really would like canted footbeds, but I wasnt sure how much stiffer the UNION factory binding is compared to the Forces?


I'm going to guess the flex is the same. Next years Force baseplates have the same contact profile and nylon density as the Atlas. They're essentially the same baseplate with a different footbed. 

The highback on next year's Force is the same highback as this, but with the traditional Force cut outs, which are entirely for design. I'd say the Force highback flex will be identical to the Team highback. 

The new Force ankle strap appears to be a symmetric version of the Atlas ankle strap so I would assume the construction is the same and therefore the response is the same. 

Of course, these are all assumptions based on what I see from photo's.


----------



## Extremo

This is my preferred colorway.


----------



## tj_ras

Im deffinetly picking up these and a pair or two of 2014 forces. :thumbsup:


----------



## Alkasquawlik

Extremo said:


> They're actually just this year's SuperPro's with canting added. Still the same ratchets.
> 
> The only change to the parts is a new heel cup.
> [/IMG]


Wrong. The straps are totally different. Brand new buckles and ratchets. The base tray is stiffer than the typical Stage 3 base due to the undyed nylon.


----------



## Alkasquawlik

rscott22 said:


> I was looking at these or next year's UNION Forces and I really would like canted footbeds, but I wasnt sure how much stiffer the UNION factory binding is compared to the Forces?


I've ridden both and they're relatively the same, although I personally felt the new Force was a tad bit more responsive. 

Factory is more cush though, due to the canted footbed and upgraded straps.


----------



## Extremo

Alkasquawlik said:


> Wrong. The straps are totally different. Brand new buckles and ratchets. The base tray is stiffer than the typical Stage 3 base due to the undyed nylon.


Looking at those pictures suggests otherwise. Could you elaborate on how the straps and ratchets are different? Even the stitching is the same. I mean we'll all know soon enough when we get them. 

I wonder if Union Inhouse will back up your claim that the Atlas baseplates are stiffer on the Factory??

Again, we'll know for sure when we ride them.


----------



## East§ide

sigh. i always look at these threads hoping that union changed the toe design..sigh sigh sigh


----------



## Alkasquawlik

Extremo said:


> Looking at those pictures suggests otherwise. Could you elaborate on how the straps and ratchets are different? Even the stitching is the same. I mean we'll all know soon enough when we get them.
> 
> I wonder if Union Inhouse will back up your claim that the Atlas baseplates are stiffer on the Factory??
> 
> Again, we'll know for sure when we ride them.


Every single Union binding will have brand new ratchets and buckles this year. From the Force down, all the toe buckles will have the push pin buckles, whereas everything from the Atlas up will have new buckles, but without the push pin, strictly for aesthetic reasons.

The stitching is not the same, on the Factory, the ankle strap is SonicFused, which means that there is no stitching on the strap. Everything is fused together without the need for thread. The strap is also a bit more plush than the standard Atlas strap.

Also, the new Atlas highback is slightly stiffer than this years, so I'm assuming the Team highback that is no cored out will be slightly stiffer as well.

Regarding the Factory v Atlas base, the Factory has non pigmented nylon, whereas the Atlas has its nylon dyed. When you dye nylon with pigment, it lowers the durometer rating (making it softer and less responsive), so Travis wanted a non pigmented nylon in the base to make it a bit more responsive.


----------



## Alkasquawlik

East§ide said:


> sigh. i always look at these threads hoping that union changed the toe design..sigh sigh sigh


Why are you complaining?? All the toe straps have been changed as well.

The new toe straps are smaller, and not as blown out as this years. They definitely fit better. The material on the inside of the strap is also grippier than in years past.

The new toe design was the #1 compliment from consumers/retailers at our demo.


----------



## East§ide

I'm complaining because I wasted $200 on shitty Unions - idk if you're a rep for them or not, but that toe strap looks IDENTICAL to last years. I had 2012 forces that I couldn't wait to get rid of . I have a paid of Ride Ex's from 2005 with better toe caps.

So they're smaller (like when I put medium toe caps on my large bindings and it did NOTHING?) and not as blown out..meaning they're blown out, just slightly less. And as for the material on the inside, if it's still that bumpy leather then it's still shit. I wonder how much business Burton has gotten just off of unhappy Union customers replacing their toe caps.


----------



## Alkasquawlik

They're identical, just smaller in dimension than this year's and an upgraded material on the inside. 

And no, I'm not a rep.


----------



## East§ide

They say they upgrade them every year..all I know is that they're flat floppy pieces of leather and as a binding only company it's sad that that's the best they can do. I sell kitchens and could build a better toe cap


----------



## Extremo

Alkasquawlik said:


> Every single Union binding will have brand new ratchets and buckles this year. From the Force down, all the toe buckles will have the push pin buckles, whereas everything from the Atlas up will have new buckles, but without the push pin, strictly for aesthetic reasons.
> 
> The stitching is not the same, on the Factory, the ankle strap is SonicFused, which means that there is no stitching on the strap. Everything is fused together without the need for thread. The strap is also a bit more plush than the standard Atlas strap.
> 
> Also, the new Atlas highback is slightly stiffer than this years, so I'm assuming the Team highback that is no cored out will be slightly stiffer as well.
> 
> Regarding the Factory v Atlas base, the Factory has non pigmented nylon, whereas the Atlas has its nylon dyed. When you dye nylon with pigment, it lowers the durometer rating (making it softer and less responsive), so Travis wanted a non pigmented nylon in the base to make it a bit more responsive.


So it looks like the 'new' ratchets without the push pin aren't really 'new', just fixed. 

One would think that the Factory being stiffer than the typical Atlas III baseplate would have been included in the company's description, the way the 2011 SL's carbon infused baseplate was.

Clearly the top picture shows the ankle straps to have seams. The second Factory picture it seems that it doesn't. But this detail is in the description catalog description.


----------



## poutanen

East§ide said:


> sigh. i always look at these threads hoping that union changed the toe design..sigh sigh sigh


Agree... THIS is a toe cap! You listening Union?!? See how the cap wraps right around the toe? A strap with a slit down the middle is still a strap.


----------



## Nivek

East§ide said:


> They say they upgrade them every year..all I know is that they're flat floppy pieces of leather and as a binding only company it's sad that that's the best they can do. I sell kitchens and could build a better toe cap


Bro, chill. And this is coming from one of this foums supposed Union "haters". They changed the toe strap. Its not a smaller clone of the old one either. The 2013 had that sorta curved from strip. The curve is gone. It's smaller and both strips are straight with a better material on the boot side. I havent had the chance I hopefully get to get in them, but I find it hard to believe these wont be 10 times better than this years.

Regarding the Factory, as I was told by the kid who walked me around Union at SIA the frame pictured is slightly different than production. You'll notice the heel area in the photo is identical to the Atlas, not filled on and not canted. I have a photo somewhere that shows what I was told is the production model with the canted heel and filled in heel pocket.

Alka is right, everything from the Contact Pro down gets the lever release buckle, everything up gets a newly designed pressure release that is supposedly easier to "pop".

Regarding caps vs straps, apparently there is a patent war going on over capped designs. And the best toe straps I've personally used were Flux and Raiden. Both of which I wouldnt really classify as caps. Being capped or not is a non issue for me as long as it fits. In fact I think caps are worse as they arent as conformable.


----------



## East§ide

poutanen said:


> Agree... THIS is a toe cap! You listening Union?!? See how the cap wraps right around the toe? A strap with a slit down the middle is still a strap.


And these are the bindings I love and wouldn't trade for the most limited expensive pair of unions on the planet


----------



## tj_ras

Oddly enough i rode cartels for the first time on tuesday........i liked my forces better. And its not like im some union fan boy, i just got off of ride rodeos into these union forces like midish way thru this season becuase i wanted to see just what it felt like to ride with no canting, just so happens i like the forces alot.

Its personal preference bro, you need to chill.


----------



## East§ide

Opinions are like assholes..

And I don't need to chill, "bro"

When I waste 200$ on garbage bindings I have a right to complain


----------



## Extremo

Nivek said:


> Bro, chill. And this is coming from one of this foums supposed Union "haters". They changed the toe strap. Its not a smaller clone of the old one either. The 2013 had that sorta curved from strip. The curve is gone. It's smaller and both strips are straight with a better material on the boot side. I havent had the chance I hopefully get to get in them, but I find it hard to believe these wont be 10 times better than this years.


I'm looking forward to this. Hopefully it's a fit similar to the Phantom toe, which I'm also a big fan of.



Nivek said:


> Regarding the Factory, as I was told by the kid who walked me around Union at SIA the frame pictured is slightly different than production. You'll notice the heel area in the photo is identical to the Atlas, not filled on and not canted. I have a photo somewhere that shows what I was told is the production model with the canted heel and filled in heel pocket.


This make's sense. Alka probably should have led with this because clearly the catalog photo shows otherwise. I can see a few differences between the catalog photo and the sample that's in the second photo. 

I'd still like to verify that the unpigmented nylon does in fact make the binding stiffer. You ever hear anything about this? 



Nivek said:


> Alka is right, everything from the Contact Pro down gets the lever release buckle, everything up gets a newly designed pressure release that is supposedly easier to "pop".


I'm eager to see how this new one works. If it's in fact a difference in design or the same design with tweaks that allow it to free up easier. And if the new design poses any new issues. 



Nivek said:


> Regarding caps vs straps, apparently there is a patent war going on over capped designs. And the best toe straps I've personally used were Flux and Raiden. Both of which I wouldnt really classify as caps. Being capped or not is a non issue for me as long as it fits. In fact I think caps are worse as they arent as conformable.


Agreed, caps are over rated. I have the Burton Get-a-grips and found the Atlas strap to be a better fit and more responsive. Apparently they work with my 3 pairs of boots better than some people can get them to work with theirs.


----------



## tj_ras

East§ide said:


> Opinions are like assholes..


Couldnt agree more.....you have one too?


----------



## East§ide

An asshole? Yup! And an opinion haha


----------



## deepcove

East§ide said:


> Opinions are like assholes..
> 
> And I don't need to chill, "bro"
> 
> When I waste 200$ on garbage bindings I have a right to complain


Yes opinions are like assholes........and some people are just assholes....


----------



## East§ide

Oh stop, don't be all Canadian and whiny. 

In MY experience Union makes a product that is not worth anywhere near it's retail cost. Any shop that I've gone into ( and yes, I buy local and actually talk to other riders) agrees that Unions are poorly designed and that they are outperformed by many other companies who aren't binding specific - including Salomon, Rome, Burton and more. So yea, I'm an asshole, there's my opinion.. When you buy bindings from a binding specific company ( THAT IS THE ENTIRETY OF WHAT THEY MAKE) then your first purchase after shouldn't be replacement toe caps or straps. I'm not a great rider and after 10 days on the hill, Union should have been embarassed by the way my bindings looked and worked. You'd think I was hitting 100 ft rails and dragging my bindings on them. You'd also think I was going for over the toe with my strap. I wasn't. If you don't like my opinion then SMD, this is what a forum is for.

I support companies who make quality products, listen to their customers and use that feedback to improve and who strive to outdo the others in their market. For me to see he same floppy, shapeless, flat toe poop attached to those bindings just makes me shake my head and be glad I trashed my forces


----------



## Extremo

East§ide said:


> Oh stop, don't be all Canadian and whiny.
> 
> In MY experience Union makes a product that is not worth anywhere near it's retail cost. Any shop that I've gone into ( and yes, I buy local and actually talk to other riders) agrees that Unions are poorly designed and that they are outperformed by many other companies who aren't binding specific - including Salomon, Rome, Burton and more. So yea, I'm an asshole, there's my opinion.. When you buy bindings from a binding specific company ( THAT IS THE ENTIRETY OF WHAT THEY MAKE) then your first purchase after shouldn't be replacement toe caps or straps. I'm not a great rider and after 10 days on the hill, Union should have been embarassed by the way my bindings looked and worked. You'd think I was hitting 100 ft rails and dragging my bindings on them. You'd also think I was going for over the toe with my strap. I wasn't. If you don't like my opinion then SMD, this is what a forum is for.
> 
> I support companies who make quality products, listen to their customers and use that feedback to improve and who strive to outdo the others in their market. For me to see he same floppy, shapeless, flat toe poop attached to those bindings just makes me shake my head and be glad I trashed my forces


Just for the record, all 3 of my Unions, each 2 seasons old or older, weren't in nearly as bad condition as yours. I don't know what you did in those 12 days of riding but they looked worse than my Force which have 100+ days on them. I'd say about 50% of the people I ride with ride Union and noone has had problems like that. Consider yourself the exception.


----------



## ETM

Extremo said:


> .
> 
> I'd still like to verify that the unpigmented nylon does in fact make the binding stiffer. You ever hear anything about this?
> 
> 
> .


Yeah its legit. Same deal with the liquid urethane I use for sidewalls.


----------



## East§ide

Extremo, I know you don't have issues with yours. Like I said, I'm a good rider but not good enough to warrant that kind of wear and tear. The last straw was when I got on a lift and the plastic insert on my high back fell 60ft into the snow for NO reason.


----------



## nzshred

East§ide said:


> *Oh stop, don't be all Canadian and whiny. *
> 
> In MY experience Union makes a product that is not worth anywhere near it's retail cost. Any shop that I've gone into ( and yes, I buy local and actually talk to other riders) agrees that Unions are poorly designed and that they are outperformed by many other companies who aren't binding specific...


Was that supposed to be ironic?

If Union are so shitty, and are outperformed by so many other binding companies, I hardly think the likes of Travis Rice, Gigi Ruff and Torstein Horgmo would be riding them now would they?

How can you not see that you're the only person who's had this problem? Seriously, I had almost backed up your right to be unhappy with your bindings earlier in this thread but now you're beginning to sound like a child. Union have always given me great customer service - when my ankle strap and high back broke on my Contact Pros they didn't ask for proof of warranty, they just asked what I wanted and I only had to pay $7 for shipping the new parts.
I find it hard to believe that if you had problems with wear and tear, contacted Union with evidence, that they would not have sent you free replacements or corrected this in a similar fashion. 

Now, you've potentially bought some defective bindings, and that's a shame. But Union are not the only people to have defective bindings. In my years instructing and working in workshops, I've seen more problems with Flux and Burton than I ever have with Union. I'd say here in Park City, about 40-60% of locals ride union - if they were such a poorly designed binding I don't think they would be so predominant round here.

EDIT: Oh, and chances are also good that they are not defective. I mean, if you're the only one moaning about such fast wear and tear, and no one else is having this problem, maybe you should take a moment to evaluate your own riding and how you treat your gear.


----------



## East§ide

nzshred said:


> Was that supposed to be ironic?
> 
> *If Union are so shitty, and are outperformed by so many other binding companies, I hardly think the likes of Travis Rice, Gigi Ruff and Torstein Horgmo would be riding them now would they?*
> 
> *How can you not see that you're the only person who's had this problem?* Seriously, I had almost backed up your right to be unhappy with your bindings earlier in this thread but now you're beginning to sound like a child. Union have always given me great customer service - when my ankle strap and high back broke on my Contact Pros they didn't ask for proof of warranty, they just asked what I wanted and I only had to pay $7 for shipping the new parts.
> I find it hard to believe that if you had problems with wear and tear, contacted Union with evidence, *that they would not have sent you free replacements or corrected this in a similar fashion. *
> 
> Now, you've obviously bought some defective bindings, and that's a shame. But Union are not the only people to have defective bindings. In my years instructing and working in workshops, I've seen more problems with Flux and Burton than I ever have with Union. *I'd say here in Park City, about 40-60% of locals ride union - if they were such a poorly designed binding I don't think they would be so predominant round here.*


I bolded the parts worth a repsonse.
First, I hate to break it to you, but pro riders ride for MONEY, not necessarilly because they love the gear. I've heard from numerous sources that T.Rice always preferred Cartels. You can't account for sponsorship as a point of emphasis on the quality of a product..many people are sponsored by many different companies, it is absolutely ZERO indication of the quality of the product, or the quality of the support. They are pros.. they get it for free, they get paid to promote it. I hardly think that's a worthwhile argument.

I am absolutely NOT the only person to have this problem with Unions. I've posted pictures of the garbage bindings multiple times on here. Many people complain about the toe straps, the ratchets, etc. All you need to do is scroll down through the forum.

I spoke with a customer service rep. I was told I would need to ship my bindings to them in Seattle (im in New Jersey) so that they could be inspected and fixed. I'm sorry, I have a 3-4 month season TOPS..im not wasting 3 weeks waiting for my shit bindings to be inspected and returned. On top of it, I was told the rep was going to email me with information on where to send it and that I was responsible for shipping costs there. I never even received the email. In fairness, UNION INHOUSE on the forums did try to help me, but by then my experience with Union and their products was already fouled. I had a better experience with a 50$ pair of mittens from Celtek - i emailed, they said sorry, sent me an extra pair and a 45% off coupon for their site. THATS HOW YOU DO BUSINESS.

And I could really give a shit about Park City, like anywhere else, there will always be hypebeasts following the flow of everyone else. With all of the other options out there, there is NO reason to settle for poor service, poor quality, and poor design.

oh and fyi, the fact that they asked you to pay 7$ for shipping for parts that broke on their "warrantied" bindings is fucking pathetic. I sell kitchens..for multiple thousands of dollars. 20-150k. When there is an issue, we do not expect the customer to pay for defects from the manufacturer, for the shipping of the new parts, or anything else. That is the responsiblity of the company, not the consumer.

I have every right to voice my opinion, and as posted earlier, if you dont like it, you can kindly get down on your knees and smd.


----------



## nzshred

East§ide said:


> I bolded the parts worth a repsonse.
> First, I hate to break it to you, but pro riders ride for MONEY, not necessarilly because they love the gear. I've heard from numerous sources that T.Rice always preferred Cartels. You can't account for sponsorship as a point of emphasis on the quality of a product..many people are sponsored by many different companies, it is absolutely ZERO indication of the quality of the product, or the quality of the support. They are pros.. they get it for free, they get paid to promote it. I hardly think that's a worthwhile argument.
> 
> I am absolutely NOT the only person to have this problem with Unions. I've posted pictures of the garbage bindings multiple times on here. Many people complain about the toe straps, the ratchets, etc. All you need to do is scroll down through the forum.
> 
> I spoke with a customer service rep. I was told I would need to ship my bindings to them in Seattle (im in New Jersey) so that they could be inspected and fixed. I'm sorry, I have a 3-4 month season TOPS..im not wasting 3 weeks waiting for my shit bindings to be inspected and returned. On top of it, I was told the rep was going to email me with information on where to send it and that I was responsible for shipping costs there. I never even received the email. In fairness, UNION INHOUSE on the forums did try to help me, but by then my experience with Union and their products was already fouled. I had a better experience with a 50$ pair of mittens from Celtek - i emailed, they said sorry, sent me an extra pair and a 45% off coupon for their site. THATS HOW YOU DO BUSINESS.
> 
> And I could really give a shit about Park City, like anywhere else, there will always be hypebeasts following the flow of everyone else. With all of the other options out there, there is NO reason to settle for poor service, poor quality, and poor design.
> 
> oh and fyi, the fact that they asked you to pay 7$ for shipping for parts that broke on their "warrantied" bindings is fucking pathetic. I sell kitchens..for multiple thousands of dollars. 20-150k. When there is an issue, we do not expect the customer to pay for defects from the manufacturer, for the shipping of the new parts, or anything else. That is the responsiblity of the company, not the consumer.
> 
> I have every right to voice my opinion, and as posted earlier, if you dont like it, you can kindly get down on your knees and smd.


Grow up kid, I never said you couldn't voice your opinion. In fact I was going to support your right to do so earlier, so get the fuck off your high horse and clam the fuck down. You have every right to be upset, but chill out and realise that there will always be problems with every product and every company - don't think people have never had such problems with brands like Rome, Flux, Ride, or Flow. You just seem to be that person with Union, and everyone else is trying to put the point forward that your circumstance is not the norm and it's time to stop crying.

I also never stated my bindings were under warranty - I merely said they never asked for proof and were more than obliging in helping me rectify my problem with minimum hassle. Like I could give a shit if I had to pay $7 to ship parts that were from blatant wear and tear - I had had at least 150 days on my bindings. The toll of extreme temperature changes, the stretching and pressure and abuse that bindings take, well, no shit they're going to wear down.

Torstein is not sponsored by them. He has been riding between Burton and Union for some time now - Point void. Money only goes so far, if you'll remember T.Rice was sponsored by Bent Metal, yet rode on Burtons.
I've known people who have left companies because the bindings didn't work - Do these work for you? No? Oh, so, I guess you won't be riding Union? There are reasons people wouldn't use one brands product. Pro's have plenty of options these days, and at their level, they aren't going to be happy with bindings that don't perform. So unless your only gripe is with the lifespan on the bindings - why they would use a "poorly designed binding"?

Also, state one place Raiden, Flow's or K2 have a "fanboy" base. You probably can't. There's also no fan boy following for any board or boot brands here either. Good brands get a following, for a goddamn reason. It has nothing to do with looks or brand name, it's the fact they LIKE the bindings. So yeah, Maybe PC has that base, but they got it for a reason. There's a reason so many pros ride Cartels - They work. The same is true for Union. "Hype" has nothing to do with it.

Feel free to repeat yourself again, I'm not listening.


----------



## airblaster503

This dude Eastside has made it his lifes goal to shit on every Union thread made. Dude, I saw the pictures of your bindings, no way was that normal wear and tear for 12 days of riding, looks like you were throwing them around out in the parking lot. I have close to 75 days on a set of Forces and they still look almost new. You don't have to be a good rider to fuck up bindings, most of the time it is the opposite.

Instead of trying to slander a company in all the threads made about them try just not going in. Especially since you fail to recognize that most of the complaints people have had are being addressed in next years redesign.

And I am tired of reading about your fucking experience with their customer service, the rep on here told you to contact them directly to work something out so you wouldn't be without bindings for any extended time and you failed to do that and give them a chance. For that alone you have no reason to try and shit on their warranty department, because you didn't actually deal with them beyond 1-2 emails.


----------



## East§ide

first of all, im not a kid, and if you want to find out ill be more than happy to show you.

second of all, your opinion is fucking worthless. Flows have their place, K2 has its own fanbase and if you dont believe that then youre stupid, and I rarely see people even talking about Raiden bindings. So I dont even know why you would bring that up.

Your bindings had 150 days on them..mine had 12-15. I'd say that that's a shit product. I can show you the pictures if youd like. I don't really care if my circumstance is the norm..what qualifies as the norm? if more than 50% of people experience the issue? I've seen MANY MANY MANY people complain about this issue, and again, their first purchase is a BURTON GET-A-GRIP cap strap. if you're sooooo butthurt that I have an issue with Union's products then go cry about to someone else. I have every right to state my opinion and my experience..1 time or 100 times. It's a forum, and you know what, if one person reads my experience and buys a different company over Union and doesn't have to have wasted 200$, then good...it was worth it.

You also never mentioned that your parts were from wear and tear..in that case, you got a good deal. That is different. If you want to tell me this is wear a tear from 15 days then I must not understand how long equipment is supposed to last.

























Those are just a few of the pictures. The heelcups looked like that after only a few days.

You seem to be under the misconception that pro riders are more concerned with quality over $$...guess what, if the bindings are shit, but your paid to represent them, and can get new ones every time they crap out, what skin is it off your back? I'm not saying Union's don't work for some people, but I was utterly disappointed by every aspect of my experience with them and will never be buying a paid of Union bindings again.

I'm not interested in your response at all.


----------



## East§ide

airblaster503 said:


> This dude Eastside has made it his lifes goal to shit on every Union thread made. Dude, I saw the pictures of your bindings, no way was that normal wear and tear for 12 days of riding, looks like you were throwing them around out in the parking lot. I have close to 75 days on a set of Forces and they still look almost new. You don't have to be a good rider to fuck up bindings, most of the time it is the opposite.
> 
> Instead of trying to slander a company in all the threads made about them try just not going in. Especially since you fail to recognize that most of the complaints people have had are being addressed in next years redesign.
> 
> And I am tired of reading about your fucking experience with their customer service, the rep on here told you to contact them directly to work something out so you wouldn't be without bindings for any extended time and you failed to do that and give them a chance. For that alone you have no reason to try and shit on their warranty department, because you didn't actually deal with them beyond 1-2 emails.


lol my life goal...I actually have a real life. This is a FORUM you fucktard..if you don't understand the purpose of it, maybe you don't belong on here. I can say it til I'm blue in the face, take a deep breath, and keep going. 
After dealing with the first incompetent asshole on the phone, and never receiving the email (after days of waiting), I am done with the company. You know what happens when I don't get back to people in my line of work ? I lose money,I lose sales, and my reputation suffers. Blow me if you dont like it.

I don't really need to prove anything to you, but I can show you the purchase date of my Unions and can literally show you how many times I rode last year while using them. I broke my collarbone twice last year - If I got more than 12 days I'd be shocked..I have 17 this year, and that's healthy and going multiple times a week. I take very good care of my equipment and certainly don't throw anything around in the parking lot. I paid good money for my gear, and I want it to last. I have a NS Evo from 2011 that is still almost perfect because I baby it. Guess what the Unions were attached to?

I go into the Union threads HOPING that they'll actually use their fucking heads and idk..maybe put some curvature into their toe strap, or idk..maybe instead of using leather for the inside of something that is supposed to have friction, do a small amount of reading and realize that wet leather DOESN'T create friction. Oh, and thats great that they're fixing complaints - the toe cap looks IDENTICAL to me, and so what about evryone stuck with the pieces of shit from years past? Do they get new, free toe caps? I didn't think so.



OH AND FYI, SINCE I POSTED THESE PICTURES, UNION HAS NEVER EVER CONTACTED ME TO DISCUSS THEM.
I'd rather give my money elsewhere. And if you wanna talk about hype, several shop owners I've spoken to say that they only carry Union bindings and Nike boots because of the hype on them..people come in and want them for no explicable reason at all.


----------



## DrEwTiMe

East§ide said:


> I have every right to voice my opinion, and as posted earlier, if you dont like it, you can kindly get down on your knees and smd.


Haha and this is why people are scared of our state East§ide..:laugh:

But seriously, do you think its fair to compare the type of "warranty" service you get from Union for a 300 dollar purchase to your business where your dropping 20 grand? Not only are they completely different industries, they couldn't be more financial extremes.

That would be like expecting Timex to give you the same " warranty process" as Rolex. Its just not realistic. Your opinion is your opinion and that's not my argument at all, but perhaps your asking a bit much? I don't think 7 dollars is unreasonable to ask of me to fix my stuff for free. I happened to buy the SL's and after day one of riding them I couldn't be happier, but to each his own.

Granted I had a similar experience about 5 years back with burton boards and still to this day have a bad taste in my mouth from that experience. But its obvious to everyone who rides they make quality stuff. Do they make shit? Definitely not, but I still can't help feeling that they suck since we all base opinions on our own experiences. Its all perspective


----------



## briancgrs

I want the contact pro's with canted foot beds!!!!!!!! But I have a few buddies that swear by union, so I may give the factory's a go....are the factory's a lot stiffer than the contact pros? Also do the factory's come with the lifetime warranty for the baseplate? If I'm not mistaken the contact pros do not???


----------



## East§ide

DrEwTiMe said:


> Haha and this is why people are scared of our state East§ide..:laugh:
> 
> But seriously, do you think its fair to compare the type of "warranty" service you get from Union for a 300 dollar purchase to your business where your dropping 20 grand? Not only are they completely different industries, they couldn't be more financial extremes.
> 
> That would be like expecting Timex to give you the same " warranty process" as Rolex. Its just not realistic. Your opinion is your opinion and that's not my argument at all, but perhaps your asking a bit much? I don't think 7 dollars is unreasonable to ask of me to fix my stuff for free. I happened to buy the SL's and after day one of riding them I couldn't be happier, but to each his own.
> 
> Granted I had a similar experience about 5 years back with burton boards and still to this day have a bad taste in my mouth from that experience. But its obvious to everyone who rides they make quality stuff. Do they make shit? Definitely not, but I still can't help feeling that they suck since we all base opinions on our own experiences. Its all perspective


i do agree it is a different industry and obviously financially quite different, but the concept of customer service is the same no matter what. The customer is always right, customer retention is more important than saving a few bucks on shipping, replacement parts, or the like, and word of mouth can be your best friend or worst enemy. Alot of my business comes by referrals from other people - whether it is for a 50k kitchen or a 200$ vanity..the point is that if you make right on your issues, keep the customer happy, they will return to you and they will bring your friends. I have customers who have purchased literally thousands of dollars of things from me separately over YEARS because we have developed a business relationship.

and yea, maybe its the NJ idgaf attitude, but Ill keep talking til im blue in the face..I couldn't care less who's butt hurts after


----------



## Nivek

ETM said:


> Yeah its legit. Same deal with the liquid urethane I use for sidewalls.


You actually see this all the time in longboard skate wheels. There is a reason Abec11 has always made wheels like the Grippins with the green thane. Cause if they change the color is messes with the duro and feel.


----------



## tj_ras

East§ide said:


> second of all, your opinion is fucking worthless.


Soooooooooo, just to clarify.....your entitled to your opinion BUT nobody else can voice theres. Great logic, you must be a real people person.


----------



## DrEwTiMe

East§ide said:


> i do agree it is a different industry and obviously financially quite different, but the concept of customer service is the same no matter what. The customer is always right, customer retention is more important than saving a few bucks on shipping, replacement parts, or the like, and word of mouth can be your best friend or worst enemy. Alot of my business comes by referrals from other people - whether it is for a 50k kitchen or a 200$ vanity..the point is that if you make right on your issues, keep the customer happy, they will return to you and they will bring your friends. I have customers who have purchased literally thousands of dollars of things from me separately over YEARS because we have developed a business relationship.
> 
> and yea, maybe its the NJ idgaf attitude, but Ill keep talking til im blue in the face..I couldn't care less who's butt hurts after


Haha I have a similar side that comes out when it needs to.

Your absolutely right. As someone who owned a landscaping business for 10 years, the only thing that separates you from the squadron of illegal immigrants that do the work for pennies on the dollar is customer service. In a business where we retained customers with no contract thats all you CAN do.

So guys....His point is valid 100%, because I kind of feel the same way about burton.. I mean who forced him to let the Jersey out!? :laugh::laugh:


----------



## East§ide

tj_ras said:


> Soooooooooo, just to clarify.....your entitled to your opinion BUT nobody else can voice theres. Great logic, you must be a real people person.


they can absolutely voice theres..i have NO power to delete ,edit, or stop someone from posting. to me, his opinion is worthless. it doesnt mean he isnt entitled to it, it just means i dont give a shit about it.

and actually, im a great people person. I make friends everywhere I go and retain my customer base by getting to know them on a personal level.

SMD


DrEwTiMe said:


> Haha I have a similar side that comes out when it needs to.
> 
> Your absolutely right. As someone who owned a landscaping business for 10 years, the only thing that separates you from the squadron of illegal immigrants that do the work for pennies on the dollar is customer service. In a business where we retained customers with no contract thats all you CAN do.
> 
> So guys....His point is valid 100%, because I kind of feel the same way about burton.. I mean who forced him to let the Jersey out!? :laugh::laugh:


haha the problem is that if i was actually able to discuss this with speech instead of typing, more people would see that im not some raving asshole who just wants to complain. having spent years in a similar industry and business (retail/wholesale), ive come to learn that customer service is as valuable, if not more, than the product itself, and also that a defective product will absolutely lose me business unless I do everything I can to rectify it without making it a hassle for the customer.

I have been dealing with many people affect by Hurricane Sandy, trying to help them restore their homes and replace their cabinetry..all at a severe discount for hurricane victimes. I am not making alot of money off of them (in some cases, almost none at all ), but I am building a reputation, and these people will remember who helped them in their time of need.
To that point, I had a woman order a vanity and despite a clearly signed contract, she disputed that it was not what she wanted. Rather than risk lawyers, liens, and most importantly, bad publicity, we took the vanity back ($900) and credited her for it. It's not as if we can return it to the manufacturer. it's called damaged control.

Im actually a really nice guy, I just hate feeling like I wasted my time and money,


----------



## UNION INHOUSE

*Tgif*

The reason I started coming here was to answer questions from our customers and help however, and whenever time would allow it. I'm not gonna be jumping into the debate of why people need to check their hardware every day, or defending the brand to somebody who has an axe to grind. Homie had a bad experience. That sucks and I'm sorry. 

In regards to team riders:

1. Horgmo can ride anything he wants. He chooses to ride UNION for free (He paid FULL retail for 2 pair earlier this winter). Tune into burton.com today and watch him completely destroy the slope course on his "best bindings I've ever ridden" Force Teams. Maybe Torstein is crazy and doesn't know a good binding from a bad. Haha.

In fact, there are a lot of pros that don't get a dime from us and choose to ride UNION because they are extremely durable and perform how they like. Heard of Eric Jackson?

2. Travis Rice DID ride Cartels before Union. He rode Rossi before Cartels, and Drake before Rossi. We signed him in January of 2012, and he had almost a full year riding the ATLAS before he got on the team. Travis is super picky, and if something wasn't working for him, he wouldn't be riding it (paycheck or not). Same goes for durability - he's never broken anything.

Last summer we spent 10 days focusing on the Factory (and another project that you will someday see). We had a laundry list of potential issues with the line as a whole. "Don't change the toe straps" "If anything, just make them a little smaller". I've asked all our riders about our toe strap style, and they work for everybody. (keep in mind that they all ride 32, Nike, DC, Burton, Deeluxe, and Vans).

3. Joe Sexton spend 5 YEARS on the same pair of DLX. Probably 200 days a year on snow for 5 years. How many boards do you think he went through? How many pairs of boots do you think he had? He would still be riding those bindings if I wouldn't have forced him to update his kit. That's a $129 binding with 1000 days of serious abuse. The reason they lasted that long, is because he doesn't beat the crap out of his ratchets, and he checks his hardware every day. 

I could go on, but I won't. Again, sorry Eastside. We've accepted that you don't like Union. Now maybe we can all move on, and not have to go through this every time somebody starts a thread.


----------



## poutanen




----------



## East§ide

UNION INHOUSE said:


> The reason I started coming here was to answer questions from our customers and help however, and whenever time would allow it. I'm not gonna be jumping into the debate of why people need to check their hardware every day, or defending the brand to somebody who has an axe to grind. Homie had a bad experience. That sucks and I'm sorry.
> 
> In regards to team riders:
> 
> 1. Horgmo can ride anything he wants. He chooses to ride UNION for free (He paid FULL retail for 2 pair earlier this winter). Tune into burton.com today and watch him completely destroy the slope course on his "best bindings I've ever ridden" Force Teams. Maybe Torstein is crazy and doesn't know a good binding from a bad. Haha.
> 
> In fact, there are a lot of pros that don't get a dime from us and choose to ride UNION because they are extremely durable and perform how they like. Heard of Eric Jackson?
> 
> 2. Travis Rice DID ride Cartels before Union. He rode Rossi before Cartels, and Drake before Rossi. We signed him in January of 2012, and he had almost a full year riding the ATLAS before he got on the team. Travis is super picky, and if something wasn't working for him, he wouldn't be riding it (paycheck or not). Same goes for durability - he's never broken anything.
> 
> Last summer we spent 10 days focusing on the Factory (and another project that you will someday see). We had a laundry list of potential issues with the line as a whole. "Don't change the toe straps" "If anything, just make them a little smaller". I've asked all our riders about our toe strap style, and they work for everybody. (keep in mind that they all ride 32, Nike, DC, Burton, Deeluxe, and Vans).
> 
> 3. Joe Sexton spend 5 YEARS on the same pair of DLX. Probably 200 days a year on snow for 5 years. How many boards do you think he went through? How many pairs of boots do you think he had? He would still be riding those bindings if I wouldn't have forced him to update his kit. That's a $129 binding with 1000 days of serious abuse. The reason they lasted that long, is because he doesn't beat the crap out of his ratchets, and he checks his hardware every day.
> 
> I could go on, but I won't. Again, sorry Eastside. We've accepted that you don't like Union. Now maybe we can all move on, and not have to go through this every time somebody starts a thread.


I appreciate your comments. My only comment is that I can appreciate that Joe Sexton but 1000 days on his DLX's... but I can also tell you that I'm not a liar, I'm not looking for handouts, I spend my own money that I work for, and that was the quality of my bindings after 1/100th of the time Joe spent on his. I hardly ever jib, I rest my board on my foot on the lift, and the deck that I ride was new the same day as the Unions..it is nearly mint and because I love it so much, it has been well taken care of off the slopes.
I appreciate that you joined this forum, and that you are here to help customers. Burton and a few other companies have done so as well. I won't be posting anymore about my bad experience in every Union thread, but I truly hope that other people who purchase these bindings have a better experience than I did. and FWIW, i did try every adjustment, every different style of toe strap that Union supplied my local shops,etc, and it just didnt help..and that was with Burton Ozone boots, Salomon Faction boots, and Vans Revere boots.


----------



## Extremo

poutanen said:


>


Don't pretend you don't love it.


----------



## poutanen

Extremo said:


> Don't pretend you don't love it.


I do!!! :yahoo: lol


----------



## East§ide

if it wasnt for interweb drama what would you do all day at work?


----------



## jdang307

UNION INHOUSE said:


> The reason I started coming here was to answer questions from our customers and help however, and whenever time would allow it. I'm not gonna be jumping into the debate of why people need to check their hardware every day, or defending the brand to somebody who has an axe to grind. Homie had a bad experience. That sucks and I'm sorry.
> 
> In regards to team riders:
> 
> 1. Horgmo can ride anything he wants. He chooses to ride UNION for free (He paid FULL retail for 2 pair earlier this winter). Tune into burton.com today and watch him completely destroy the slope course on his "best bindings I've ever ridden" Force Teams. Maybe Torstein is crazy and doesn't know a good binding from a bad. Haha.
> 
> In fact, there are a lot of pros that don't get a dime from us and choose to ride UNION because they are extremely durable and perform how they like. Heard of Eric Jackson?
> 
> 2. Travis Rice DID ride Cartels before Union. He rode Rossi before Cartels, and Drake before Rossi. We signed him in January of 2012, and he had almost a full year riding the ATLAS before he got on the team. Travis is super picky, and if something wasn't working for him, he wouldn't be riding it (paycheck or not). Same goes for durability - he's never broken anything.
> 
> Last summer we spent 10 days focusing on the Factory (and another project that you will someday see). We had a laundry list of potential issues with the line as a whole. "Don't change the toe straps" "If anything, just make them a little smaller". I've asked all our riders about our toe strap style, and they work for everybody. (keep in mind that they all ride 32, Nike, DC, Burton, Deeluxe, and Vans).
> 
> 3. Joe Sexton spend 5 YEARS on the same pair of DLX. Probably 200 days a year on snow for 5 years. How many boards do you think he went through? How many pairs of boots do you think he had? He would still be riding those bindings if I wouldn't have forced him to update his kit. That's a $129 binding with 1000 days of serious abuse. The reason they lasted that long, is because he doesn't beat the crap out of his ratchets, and he checks his hardware every day.
> 
> I could go on, but I won't. Again, sorry Eastside. We've accepted that you don't like Union. Now maybe we can all move on, and not have to go through this every time somebody starts a thread.


I can definitely respect a response like that. No ripping or anything. Good shit.

What is the stiffness on the Factories? My knees have become an issue this year as well. Wondering how damp the base is (anything similar to K2 Harshmellow)


----------



## Cyfer

Damn! If I knew that posting a thread about Union would start some serious drama on this forum I wouldn't have. Just thought it would be cool to post up a pic of a new model from Union for 2014. BTW one of the most reliable bindings I've owned happens to be a pair of 2011 Union Force Team. They may not always be mounted on a board but I keep them because they are that reliable. My union Contacts have been used at Jersey (Mountain Creek) for almost as long as I've had them. aside from cosmetic damage they are still working fine. 

The toe cap strap on the Contacts fit my 32 Lashed just fine, all I did was placed the straps in the rearward position. My only issue was initially how sticky the toe strap was but once you wear them in its gets better. Now I've got zero issues with my Contacts. One of these days I've got to call Union and see if they will sell me the same straps for the toe strap on my Force.


----------



## UNION INHOUSE

jdang307 said:


> I can definitely respect a response like that. No ripping or anything. Good shit.
> 
> What is the stiffness on the Factories? My knees have become an issue this year as well. Wondering how damp the base is (anything similar to K2 Harshmellow)



Hey,

I can't tell you how they ride compared to Harshmellows, because I haven't ridden a k2 binding in years. 

Our board designer here has the worst knees. He's getting knee replacements in a month or so. He's been riding the Factory and loves it, mostly because of the canting. 

Stiffness: The highback is pretty damn stiff, but the base has some flex. It's somewhere between Charger base, and Atlas base. Those are pigment free, or 'raw' injection. This makes it a bit more stiff. It seems to be our most wanted binding right now with the group of people we flow stuff to. I think it's because the Factory is an upgraded version of the team bindings we've been making for the past 2 seasons. 

Dampening: Yes. Again, I haven't ridden K2's, but I would guess they would have similar dampening. 

I hope that helped. I'm in a rush right now, sorry for any type-ohs.


----------



## Chef Jer

UNION INHOUSE said:


> Hey,
> 
> I can't tell you how they ride compared to Harshmellows, because I haven't ridden a k2 binding in years.
> 
> Our board designer here has the worst knees. He's getting knee replacements in a month or so. He's been riding the Factory and loves it, mostly because of the canting.
> 
> Stiffness: The highback is pretty damn stiff, but the base has some flex. It's somewhere between Charger base, and Atlas base. Those are pigment free, or 'raw' injection. This makes it a bit more stiff. It seems to be our most wanted binding right now with the group of people we flow stuff to. I think it's because the Factory is an upgraded version of the team bindings we've been making for the past 2 seasons.
> 
> Dampening: Yes. Again, I haven't ridden K2's, but I would guess they would have similar dampening.
> 
> I hope that helped. I'm in a rush right now, sorry for any type-ohs.


Are the Factory's the SL replacement? I didn't see (but might have missed) the SL's in the 14 catalog. 

I will admit that after some initial challenges with the toe strap (just didn't work with my Salomons) that I really... really like my SL's. I haven't rode my Restricted Cartels but once this season and am thinking about selling them since I don't see myself riding them much. 

Opposed to some on the forum... I'm actually really impressed with how durable the SL's have been. The only paint chips I have are where the forward lean adjuster meets the heel cup. Pretty impressive!!!!

If the toe cap is improved to work with more boots, I really wouldn't be able to think of a reason to not recommend Union's to people I ride with.


----------

