# 2015 Burton Cartels vs Genesis bindings



## mardonnn

Hey everyone... looking for advice on a new set up. The old set-up I've had over the past 5 years have been beat and stoked on getting some new gear!

Board: Lib Tech TRS HP 154
Bindings: CHOICE BETWEEN BURTON CARTELS vs BURTON GENESIS

What's your opinion on what's best? I've heard the hi-backs on the genesis could be less responsive? 

About me: Ride 80% mountain/groomers/pow 20% park, jibs, boxes, buttering around


Thanks for the advice everyone! Appreciate it  :jumping1:


Men's Genesis Snowboard Binding | Burton Snowboards

Men's Cartel Snowboard Binding | Burton Snowboards

TRS HP – Lib Tech


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## mardonnn

so far it looks like Cartels are in the lead... no love for the genesis out there?


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## fastaction

giving the genesis some love. I also have the cartel and its a damn good binding


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## mardonnn

fastaction said:


> giving the genesis some love. I also have the cartel and its a damn good binding


@fastaction what makes you love the genesis over the cartel? 

Thanks for the input everyone!


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## F1EA

mardonnn said:


> @fastaction what makes you love the genesis over the cartel?
> 
> Thanks for the input everyone!


1. Hammock ankle strap. The best ankle strap ever.
2. Double take angles buckles. I always sort of strip my ladders..... these ones dont slip at all.
3. Light. I am yet to meet a lighter binding.
4. Comfort. Has all the comfort features.... 

I dont think 3&4 matter all that much though.

Highback feels a bit softer, which people may confuse with less response.... frankly, the response is almost the same in the 3 bindings in your poll.

Basically, Burton has managed to have the 3 closest feeling/response bindings in the market hahaha 

The highback in the Genesis is definitely softer than the Cartels'; but it is taller. The highback in Malavita is about same height and stiffer than Gen, but has regular ankle strap......

I recommend you go to a shop, feel the difference in the 3 bindings. Choose whichever you think fits your riding and preferences the most.

Oh and BTW i'm not voting.....


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## mardonnn

F1EA said:


> 1. Hammock ankle strap. The best ankle strap ever.
> 2. Double take angles buckles. I always sort of strip my ladders..... these ones dont slip at all.
> 3. Light. I am yet to meet a lighter binding.
> 4. Comfort. Has all the comfort features....
> 
> I dont think 3&4 matter all that much though.
> 
> Highback feels a bit softer, which people may confuse with less response.... frankly, the response is almost the same in the 3 bindings in your poll.
> 
> Basically, Burton has managed to have the 3 closest feeling/response bindings in the market hahaha
> 
> The highback in the Genesis is definitely softer than the Cartels'; but it is taller. The highback in Malavita is about same height and stiffer than Gen, but has regular ankle strap......
> 
> I recommend you go to a shop, feel the difference in the 3 bindings. Choose whichever you think fits your riding and preferences the most.
> 
> Oh and BTW i'm not voting.....


@F1EA thank you for the detailed response! Highly appreciate it.

At first I was leaning towards the cartels now I'm leaning towards the Genesis... seems to have all the updated technology with the same level of response for everything even quick turns in the tree lines/backcountry.

If anyone else has other opinions please share!


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## F1EA

mardonnn said:


> @F1EA thank you for the detailed response! Highly appreciate it.
> 
> At first I was leaning towards the cartels now I'm leaning towards the Genesis... seems to have all the updated technology with the same level of response for everything even quick turns in the tree lines/backcountry.
> 
> If anyone else has other opinions please share!


Yeah you're going to go back and forth between the 3, because they are very similar. Absolutely a matter of preference. Burton has 3 mid flex bindings then leaves a gap to the stiff Diodes. No idea why.


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## Nivek

Cause the Malavita is stiff enough till you NEED the Diode. What would you like in between? Carbon highback nylon frame? Or carbon/nylon frame, nylon highback?


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## snowklinger

Malavita muwhaahah

I'm on my second pair in a row.


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## F1EA

Nivek said:


> Cause the Malavita is stiff enough till you NEED the Diode. What would you like in between? Carbon highback nylon frame? Or carbon/nylon frame, nylon highback?


Cartel Ltd hahaha

What would be about same as Union Factory, Now Drive, Flow NX2-AT, Rome Targa, Ride Capo.. etc?


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## mardonnn

Nivek said:


> Cause the Malavita is stiff enough till you NEED the Diode. What would you like in between? Carbon highback nylon frame? Or carbon/nylon frame, nylon highback?


@Nivek - with that being said does that mean you prefer the Malavita over the Genesis? I was leaning towards the Genesis based on reviews of all 3 of them being close in responsiveness but the Genesis being lighter with better technology... "supposedly".


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## snowklinger

mardonnn said:


> @Nivek - with that being said does that mean you prefer the Malavita over the Genesis? I was leaning towards the Genesis based on reviews of all 3 of them being close in responsiveness* but the Genesis being lighter with better technology*... "supposedly".


yea yea not nivek...

Imo lighter is a bad reason to choose anything these days. They are all light. If the technology lends a different response or cushion, so be it, but don't get suckered into shit being lightweight.

/mini rant


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## mardonnn

snowklinger said:


> yea yea not nivek...
> 
> Imo lighter is a bad reason to choose anything these days. They are all light. If the technology lends a different response or cushion, so be it, but don't get suckered into shit being lightweight.
> 
> /mini rant


@snowklinger - true. But I heard it has better cushioning and allows you to crank down the straps more without any pressure points. Response I've heard equal between the three... but I didn't want it to seem that it was based purely on weight alone.


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## mardonnn

SGboarder said:


> I have only tried the Genesis and the Cartel. They effectively weigh the same and are about equally responsive. Only practical difference is the style - Cartel stiffer and more locked in, Genesis softer and comfy.
> I expect the Malavitas are not much different.


thanks for the advice @SGboarder


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## stryk3z

I posted this is the other thread:
Cartels are great bindings however the 2015 version has these grill things on the bottom part of the highback that eats through/destroys your boots. After 2 days they ate through the rubber backing and top layer of leather on my burton rulers and i immediately had them swapped out. Beware of the 2015 cartels...they are hungry...


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## mardonnn

That's good info to know! I'm leaning more towards the Genesis as I've heard nothing but good things about those bindings. Plus I heard the cartels may not mix well with the flex on my new board (flex rating of 5)... The malavitas may be more durable but I doubt I would use the bindings for more than 3-4 seasons.


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## sleev-les

stryk3z said:


> I posted this is the other thread:
> Cartels are great bindings however the 2015 version has these grill things on the bottom part of the highback that eats through/destroys your boots. After 2 days they ate through the rubber backing and top layer of leather on my burton rulers and i immediately had them swapped out. Beware of the 2015 cartels...they are hungry...


Interesting... I've got the 2015 Cartels and love them. Just switched up from last years Vita Restricted. I haven't had the issues you are talking about with them. My boots are still good to go.


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## stryk3z

sleev-les said:


> Interesting... I've got the 2015 Cartels and love them. Just switched up from last years Vita Restricted. I haven't had the issues you are talking about with them. My boots are still good to go.


Heres a thread about it with pictures of boots/binding grooves:
http://www.snowboardingforum.com/boots/54313-what-causing.html
Looks like the grooves were in the cartels before too but i dunno...Anyways the boot wear was ridiculous for my 2 days of riding on them. Burton product manager said their looking to make them less aggressive for the 2015 season but I dont think that happened. Luckily place took the bindings back but the boots had too much damage to return.


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## ekb18c

Where on the highback are these grooves of the cartel? I don't see them.


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## stryk3z

ekb18c said:


> Where on the highback are these grooves of the cartel? I don't see them.


Its on the heelcup:
http://www.snowboardingforum.com/attachments/boots/10017d1358115127-what-causing-dsc07936.jpg


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## sleev-les

stryk3z said:


> Heres a thread about it with pictures of boots/binding grooves:
> http://www.snowboardingforum.com/boots/54313-what-causing.html
> Looks like the grooves were in the cartels before too but i dunno...Anyways the boot wear was ridiculous for my 2 days of riding on them. Burton product manager said their looking to make them less aggressive for the 2015 season but I dont think that happened. Luckily place took the bindings back but the boots had too much damage to return.





ekb18c said:


> Where on the highback are these grooves of the cartel? I don't see them.


I didn't notice those grooves on mine, but I'll look again tonight. I definitely don't have damage on my boots either. Im running last seasons 32 TM Two's. Still my favorite boot too


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## stryk3z

sleev-les said:


> I didn't notice those grooves on mine, but I'll look again tonight. I definitely don't have damage on my boots either. Im running last seasons 32 TM Two's. Still my favorite boot too


U have the EST or regular? I had the regular, would be interesting if they made the two different.


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## sleev-les

I have the regular. I'll look again, but I just could have overlooked them since its not something I would have been looking for.


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## F1EA

stryk3z said:


> I posted this is the other thread:
> Cartels are great bindings however the 2015 version has these grill things on the bottom part of the highback that eats through/destroys your boots. After 2 days they ate through the rubber backing and top layer of leather on my burton rulers and i immediately had them swapped out. Beware of the 2015 cartels...they are hungry...


Beware Cartel, they are hungry
LOL

Your boots are not supposed to move within your bindings, specially not in the heel area.

Also, you have only like 7 posts and they've all been about the same topic. Yet hundreds of ppl ride Cartel and nobody has reported a hungry one. Maybe yours is a bad batch from their Ethiopia factory.


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## sleev-les

F1EA said:


> Beware Cartel, they are hungry
> LOL
> 
> Your boots are not supposed to move within your bindings, specially not in the heel area.
> 
> Also, you have only like 7 posts and they've all been about the same topic. Yet hundreds of ppl ride Cartel and nobody has reported a hungry one. Maybe yours is a bad batch from their Ethiopia factory.


Someone said it ^^

I was questioning that too. I rode EST Cartels on an older board a few years back and still didn't have this issue. Even reading the other thread, a few mentioned that boot material wasn't very good. The pics though, looked like a S**t ton of heel lift. on them..


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## F1EA

sleev-les said:


> a few mentioned that boot material wasn't very good. The pics though, looked like a S**t ton of heel lift. on them..


haha there you go. 
this wouldnt happen to the TM2's backstay. 

Also, heel lift.
Somebody who allows that much play in their boots/bindings.... I'm inclined to say they are doin it wrong and wouldn't take advice from them.

By the way i had Missions which had the older Cartel highback... and nope. Not hungry.
Also rode this yr's (or last yr's) Cartels from a friend and they werent hungry either.


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## sleev-les

F1EA said:


> haha there you go.
> this wouldnt happen to the TM2's backstay.
> 
> Also, heel lift.
> Somebody who allows that much play in their boots/bindings.... I'm inclined to say they are doin it wrong and wouldn't take advice from them.
> 
> By the way i had Missions which had the older Cartel highback... and nope. Not hungry.
> Also rode this yr's (or last yr's) Cartels from a friend and they werent hungry either.


I was just playing nice until someone said it lol.. I was skeptical from the beginning


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## ekb18c

Are you sure you have Burton Cartels and not Purton Bartels?


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## stryk3z

The boots were locked in solid riding them, no noticable heel lift. Bindings felt great minus the chewed up boots. 2015 burton rulers, shop didnt even question it and replaced the bindings


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## stryk3z

F1EA said:


> Beware Cartel, they are hungry
> LOL
> 
> Your boots are not supposed to move within your bindings, specially not in the heel area.
> 
> Also, you have only like 7 posts and they've all been about the same topic. Yet hundreds of ppl ride Cartel and nobody has reported a hungry one. Maybe yours is a bad batch from their Ethiopia factory.


Heres another 6 threads mentioning the same problem from people with more than 7 posts =]:

http://www.snowboardingforum.com/bindings/56586-burton-cartel-chewed-up-boots-help.html
http://www.snowboardingforum.com/bindings/62426-new-bindings-needed-asap.html
http://www.snowboardingforum.com/boots/56618-burton-rampant-pins-needles-numbness.html
http://www.snowboardingforum.com/bindings/129785-targa-vs-cartel.html
2013 burton cartel chewing up boots : snowboarding
https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20130211165838AAygrdQ


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## F1EA

stryk3z said:


> Heres another 6 threads mentioning the same problem from people with more than 7 posts =]:
> 
> http://www.snowboardingforum.com/bindings/56586-burton-cartel-chewed-up-boots-help.html
> http://www.snowboardingforum.com/bindings/62426-new-bindings-needed-asap.html
> http://www.snowboardingforum.com/boots/56618-burton-rampant-pins-needles-numbness.html
> http://www.snowboardingforum.com/bindings/129785-targa-vs-cartel.html
> 2013 burton cartel chewing up boots : snowboarding
> https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20130211165838AAygrdQ


Oh now you have 8 posts on the same topic now.

Not sure how many of those ^ are from the same person.

Anyways.... I have a quick solution: duct tape on the ridges.
But most likely... get a binding/boot combo that fits.


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## stryk3z

F1EA said:


> Oh now you have 8 posts on the same topic now.
> 
> Not sure how many of those ^ are from the same person.
> 
> Anyways.... I have a quick solution: duct tape on the ridges.
> But most likely... get a binding/boot combo that fits.


Burton on Burton shouldn't be a problem considering spending 200-250/piece on boots/bindings. But now that you mention it, i'm probably the same person with the 400-1000 posts of the other people in those threads. Looks like i have more than u, which obviously means ur doing something wrong and i'm better at snowboarding


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## F1EA

stryk3z said:


> Burton on Burton shouldn't be a problem considering spending 200-250/piece on boots/bindings. But now that you mention it, i'm probably the same person with the 400-1000 posts of the other people in those threads. Looks like i have more than u, which obviously means ur doing something wrong and i'm better at snowboarding


Not really. I just post more shit.


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## stryk3z

F1EA said:


> Not really. I just post more shit.


is right. You should probably check if ur boots even touch the bottom of ur highbacks. Ur probably doing it wrong.


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## ekb18c

There is no way the boot should be moving that much to cause those scratches on the boots of those other posts. No way, if they fit properly. 

What boots do you have? What size? What size were the binidngs of the Cartels?


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## stryk3z

ekb18c said:


> There is no way the boot should be moving that much to cause those scratches on the boots of those other posts. No way, if they fit properly.
> 
> What boots do you have? What size? What size were the binidngs of the Cartels?


Medium Cartels, size 9 Burton Rulers. Like I said the store saw burton on burton with that damage and didn't even question it, they just gave me another binding to replace it.

Edit: Ironically burton boots even have a rubber backstay to what looks like they should match up to the grooves on the bindings...but it only delays the damage a bit, giving some buffer before it touches the leather.

Edit2: It doesn't have to move much at all to tear the leather. Imagine have a file against the leather and having it pushed tight against it from your straps. Even the slightest up/down resistance will slowly grind away (as your doing heel/toe side transitions with ur entire bodyweight over it). Probably worse doing alot of presses/jibs with the side to side movement added in.


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## F1EA

stryk3z said:


> is right. You should probably check if ur boots even touch the bottom of ur highbacks. Ur probably doing it wrong.


I wear them backwards yo. Join the revolution.

In the meantime, I just can't trust people who don't know the difference between your and you're. Much less of they spell it ur.


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## ekb18c

For what's it's worth. I have Medium Cartels with DC 9.5 Judges and I only have leather on the back of the boot and have never had any of these issues.


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## stryk3z

F1EA said:


> I wear them backwards yo. Join the revolution.
> 
> In the meantime, I just can't trust people who don't know the difference between your and you're. Much less of they spell it ur.


Eh


F1EA said:


> Not really.


Some


F1EA said:


> ppl


just use 2 word sentences and can't spell.


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## F1EA

stryk3z said:


> Eh
> 
> Some
> 
> just use 2 word sentences and can't spell.


Ur funniez.


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## stryk3z

F1EA said:


> Ur funniez.


u know he mad


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## F1EA

stryk3z said:


> u know he mad


Really? 
and i just voted Cartels. Who's mad now eh??


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## stryk3z

F1EA said:


> Really?
> and i just voted Cartels. Who's mad now eh??


Gratz ur vote #15. But on the plus side, ur +1 post into being a better rider because more posts get u more skillz


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## ekb18c




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## stryk3z

F1EA said:


> Beware Cartel, they are hungry
> LOL
> 
> Your boots are not supposed to move within your bindings, specially not in the heel area.
> 
> Also, you have only like 7 posts and they've all been about the same topic. Yet hundreds of ppl ride Cartel and nobody has reported a hungry one. Maybe yours is a bad batch from their Ethiopia factory.


Lets speed this up, 1v1 for 15 posts (I only have 16 and it would be tragic to be a 0 poster again).


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## ekb18c

So I just checked and I do have those grooves on my cartels. Never noticed them before. wow..


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## stryk3z

ekb18c said:


> So I just checked and I do have those grooves on my cartels. Never noticed them before. wow..


Well played! Next thing to check is if ur boots are touching the bottom of the highback at the heelcup area... Could be that something like forward lean or certain boot designs are angled in a way where it doesn't touch or its angled against the grooves so it doesn't rub too hard, I'm not sure though.


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## F1EA

stryk3z said:


> Well played! Next thing to check is if ur boots are touching the bottom of the highback at the heelcup area... Could be that something like forward lean or certain boot designs are angled in a way where it doesn't touch or its angled against the grooves so it doesn't rub too hard, I'm not sure though.


If he has TM2's i doubt any rubbing will chew through the boot's backstay. Also, TM2 (amongst countless others) probably have a better fit to the Cartel than the boot you were using.


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## stryk3z

F1EA said:


> If he has TM2's i doubt any rubbing will chew through the boot's backstay. Also, TM2 (amongst countless others) probably have a better fit to the Cartel than the boot you were using.


Because Burton designs their boots to fit non-Burton bindings better. Epic 1200 post logic. Burton boots actually have rubber ridges on the back to 'fit' to those grooves.


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## F1EA

stryk3z said:


> Because Burton designs their boots to fit non-Burton bindings better. Epic 1200 post logic. Burton boots actually have rubber ridges on the back to 'fit' to those grooves.


Well.... they seem to design their bindings to fit non-Burton boards. I mean, there's Reflex and stuff. Could it happen with boots too?

Guess we'll never know.


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## stryk3z

F1EA said:


> Well.... they seem to design their bindings to fit non-Burton boards. I mean, there's Reflex and stuff. Could it happen with boots too?
> 
> Guess we'll never know.


I guess I should have bought their Reflex boots.


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## mardonnn

Hahaha I love what this thread has turned into! With that being said I finally got the Genesis and I absolutely love them! To each their own. Happy riding everyone!


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## chomps1211

stryk3z said:


> I guess I should have bought their Reflex boots.


...I heard that the soles of those "Reflex" boots start to rub thru the topsheets of non Burton boards when one footin' it! :shrug:



:hairy:


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## stryk3z

chomps1211 said:


> ...I heard that the soles of those "Reflex" boots start to rub thru the topsheets of non Burton boards when one footin' it! :shrug:
> 
> 
> 
> :hairy:


Damn it, I'll have to get a reflex stomp pad too


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## stryk3z

mardonnn said:


> Hahaha I love what this thread has turned into! With that being said I finally got the Genesis and I absolutely love them! To each their own. Happy riding everyone!


Gratz bro, I'm riding TRS HP 159 for mountain also. Great choice, took a little getting used to since its such an aggressive ride but I love it.


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## chrisdude112

I literally bought malavitas because they were camo.


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## ETM

Any feedback on these new "flex slider" straps? They look damn flimsy to me


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## Nivek

Been using them since last year. It's solid. The idea came from the way climbing rope is manufactured. By stretching the plastic the molecules align in a straighter makeup actually making the plastic stronger. I've seen a flex slider that Burton stretched to 3 inches in just that one spot for demonstration purposes. Now you wont crack and snap them.

And they're backing the piece up with a lifetime warranty. And I haven't had to replace a single one at the store yet.


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## chomps1211

ETM said:


> Any feedback on these new "flex slider" straps? They look damn flimsy to me….


Are you thinking maybe that thinner section of the strap allowing it to flex, will eventually split with all the flexing and the bending and the cold etc???

I could see that _maybe_ becoming an issue. But, Other than that thinning of the plastic near the base,..? The strap doesn't look any different or flimsier that I can see. 

I can say I haven't noticed any cracking or splitting on any of my Older Cartel's plastic straps. And they get bent back like that alla time! :dunno:


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## ETM

chomps1211 said:


> Are you thinking maybe that thinner section of the strap allowing it to flex, will eventually split with all the flexing and the bending and the cold etc???
> 
> I could see that _maybe_ becoming an issue. But, Other than that thinning of the plastic near the base,..? The strap doesn't look any different or flimsier that I can see.
> 
> I can say I haven't noticed any cracking or splitting on any of my Older Cartel's plastic straps. And they get bent back like that alla time! :dunno:


Just the thin flex section


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## ETM

Nivek said:


> Been using them since last year. It's solid. The idea came from the way climbing rope is manufactured. By stretching the plastic the molecules align in a straighter makeup actually making the plastic stronger. I've seen a flex slider that Burton stretched to 3 inches in just that one spot for demonstration purposes. Now you wont crack and snap them.
> 
> And they're backing the piece up with a lifetime warranty. And I haven't had to replace a single one at the store yet.


Cool, if anyone can break it its me though lol


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## scotty100

Flex slider same tech K2 has been using for years on their bindings?


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## Nivek

K2's is a pin hinge.


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## SickTrickz96

Not voting because I have the cartels and malavitas and believe the type of riding you do will determine which is better, both from 2013

I feel that the malavitas are softer and are more playful in the park and for freestyle........but not by a lot

The cartels feel a tad stiffer and offer a little bit more support, however it's not a crazy difference

Never rode on the genisis

Both are great bindings


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