# MY FEET CAN'T BE THAT SMALL - CAN THEY?



## Snow Hound (Jul 21, 2012)

Foot pain is more often than not caused by boots that are too big. Snowboard boots should absolutely be smaller than street shoes.


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## Radialhead (Jan 3, 2018)

The trouble is your feet are E width, which is probably why you use UK7; the extra length makes up for your 32's being too narrow. Standard Burtons are D width, & Burton Wide are EEE. So if you're determined to get Step Ons, you'll have to be prepared for some modifications. You might get away with the standard width if you wear very thin socks & heat-mould them, but lots of people have hot spots by the outside toe cleat on Step Ons so you're probably pushing your luck.


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## Scocherry (Feb 11, 2020)

Damn, but thank you. Would that be a UK 6 or 5.5 then? Do you have a link to a width chart so I can see how far away from a D I am? Thinking I need to change boots anyways - today has been a school day!


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## Radialhead (Jan 3, 2018)

5.5 but it's safest to go by the mondo or US size when ordering as the UK size on the labels isn't always right (Absolute Snow have some stuff about that on their website). This is Wiredsport's width chart (the size column is US sizes). https://www.wiredsport.com/width2.JPG


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## Scocherry (Feb 11, 2020)

Thanks again. Is the width size in mm on the chart the mid-point or the upper limit? I.e. at a 6.5US is a D = 87mm to 91mm, or 89mm to 94mm?

It appears Burton in the UK only sell boots down to 7US/6UK/250 mondo :-(. Looks like I'll have to try and find a pair to try on at least.


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## Radialhead (Jan 3, 2018)

It's the upper limit unfortunately, so D is 87-91.


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

Hi Scocherry,

Your feet are Mondopoint 240 and 245 and are E width. I would suggest not going by the UK size as that is a conversion. Mondopoint is not a conversion, it is simply your foot measurement in mm. The smallest wide boots currently made are Mondopoint 250 (US 7). You will not want Burton's Wide models as those are designed for EEE width. The best fit for you will be either the Salomon Dialogue Wide or Synapse Wide in Mondopoint 250. Only Salomon designs their Wide boots for E width. 

STOKED!


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## Scocherry (Feb 11, 2020)

Thanks Wiredsport, and thanks for your measuring tool - I've been so wrong up until now :-(. You don't think I would be able to heat mould any of the 250 Burton Boots to fit or does the nature of the step on binding proclude this as Radialhead mentioned above?


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

Hi,
Lets confirm your measurements with some images of your barefoot measurements being taken. If correct, you are at the higher side of E width. That would not be suggested in a "normal" D width and the Burton Wide's would be too wide. 

STOKED!


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## Scocherry (Feb 11, 2020)

Thank You. I'll get some posted tonight.


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## Scocherry (Feb 11, 2020)

Apologies for foot pictures, especially the nails


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## ridethecliche (Feb 27, 2019)

Like wired said, there are a few things that you can do to help make the boots fit a little bigger, but none of them are really ideal. These include using higher volume insoles etc.

Again, not ideal at all, but might hold you over till you're able to get the boots that wired recommended.


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

Hi,

Your are mondopoint 240 for both feet. We should get your width measurements again with your feet reversed. For width please place the inside (medial side) of your foot against a wall. Please then measure from the wall out to the widest point on the lateral (outside) of your foot.


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## Scocherry (Feb 11, 2020)

I took a few, just to double check. Thanks again for all your time.


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## Scocherry (Feb 11, 2020)

Only measuring them myself, without try to take a photo etc, I get 92/93mm.


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

Got it. Both feet are Mondopoint 240 or size 6 US in snowboard boots. Both feet are E width. The best fit for you will be the Salomon Wide boots in Mondopoint 250 or size 7 US). 

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## Scocherry (Feb 11, 2020)

Thank You WiredSport and I'll definitely leave reviews for you as you've been great. 

Just a bit pissed off as I was fitted for boots (and bindings and a board) at a big store when I first started boarding (5 years ago) and they put me in a 32 Lashed UK7 - and I've always experienced foot pain to some level, at some point, every day I've boarded :-(. I'm now wondering if my Medium Burton Cartels are too big and my boards too!! Guess I'll organise a set of boots first and go from there. Thanks again.


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

Scocherry said:


> Just a bit pissed off as I was fitted for boots (and bindings and a board) at a big store when I first started boarding (5 years ago) and they put me in a 32 Lashed UK7 - and I've always experienced foot pain to some level, at some point, every day I've boarded :-(.


Welcome ti the club. Almost everyone here went through this story of too big boots etc. You're in good company. Hope, your foot pain issues will get better with the new boots. Sell your current gear if now everything is too large/wide, and replace it with better sized stuff. Someone will be happy to ride your old gear, you'll be happy to have new stuff. Almost win-wind, and a lesson learned.

@Wiredsport : where can one find which width the different brands/models of boots are? I don't remember that I ever saw that D or E a.s.o. measure meantioned in a catalog. I remember Deeluxe being quite wide, and they come in small men's sizes. Aren't they wide enough for OP?


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

Scocherry said:


> Thank You WiredSport and I'll definitely leave reviews for you as you've been great.
> 
> Just a bit pissed off as I was fitted for boots (and bindings and a board) at a big store when I first started boarding (5 years ago) and they put me in a 32 Lashed UK7 - and I've always experienced foot pain to some level, at some point, every day I've boarded :-(. I'm now wondering if my Medium Burton Cartels are too big and my boards too!! Guess I'll organise a set of boots first and go from there. Thanks again.


Hi,
I wish that I could say that this was unusual but shops get this wrong all the time. You are a clear size Small in Cartels (6-8 US). 24 cm feet are a challenging fit for men's boards. There are some great threads here about boards for small footed riders. STOKED!


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

neni said:


> @Wiredsport : where can one find which width the different brands/models of boots are? I don't remember that I ever saw that D or E a.s.o. measure meantioned in a catalog. I remember Deeluxe being quite wide, and they come in small men's sizes. Aren't they wide enough for OP?


Hi Neni,
Only Burton and Salomon note the width of their wide models (EEE and E respectively). K2 also produces a designated wide model (Maysis Wide) but they do not specify the width. That is it for boots designed as Wide. The Mondopoint standard actually calls for all boot manufacturers to note both the length and width (range) in mm. Currently no brands do that for width in snowboarding (some ski boot brands do).

STOKED!


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## Seppuccu (Dec 4, 2012)

Wiredsport said:


> Only Salomon designs their Wide boots for E width.


K2 Maysis Wide boots are for E width feet - just saying'. Unfortunately they only run down to Mondo 250 so it won't help in this specific case.

Oh, and OP: you might want to do something about that onychomycosis (at least it looks like it to my highly unprofessional eyes).


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## Scocherry (Feb 11, 2020)

Seppuccu said:


> Oh, and OP: you might want to do something about that onychomycosis (at least it looks like it to my highly unprofessional eyes).


??? A lot of trail running up in the wet of the Highlands on top of Boarding and Skiing hasn't done my feet any favours. Been trying Tea Tree Oil.to go the natural route with no avail. GP's appointment in my near future. ??‍♂


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## Radialhead (Jan 3, 2018)

Scocherry said:


> ??? A lot of trail running up in the wet of the Highlands on top of Boarding and Skiing hasn't done my feet any favours. Been trying Tea Tree Oil.to go the natural route with no avail. GP's appointment in my near future. ??‍♂


Dribble on some apple cider vinegar once or twice a day - sorted. It's a good idea to drink a tablespoon of it mixed with water too as the fungus can be systemic.


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## Scocherry (Feb 11, 2020)

Radialhead said:


> Dribble on some apple cider vinegar once or twice a day - sorted. It's a good idea to drink a tablespoon of it mixed with water too as the fungus can be systemic.


I do actually take Cider Vinegar orally so will try some atopically too ?


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## Scocherry (Feb 11, 2020)

Wiredsport said:


> Hi Scocherry,
> 
> Your feet are Mondopoint 240 and 245 and are E width. I would suggest not going by the UK size as that is a conversion. Mondopoint is not a conversion, it is simply your foot measurement in mm. The smallest wide boots currently made are Mondopoint 250 (US 7). You will not want Burton's Wide models as those are designed for EEE width. The best fit for you will be either the Salomon Dialogue Wide or Synapse Wide in Mondopoint 250. Only Salomon designs their Wide boots for E width.
> 
> STOKED!


So I was struggling to find either the Dialogue or Synapse Wide in a 250 online, except at full retail price on the Salmon site (no sure about their turns policy) but I found and ordered a pair of Salamon HiFi Wides in a 250 with 40% off ?. Excited to get them and try them on.


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## Radialhead (Jan 3, 2018)

Scocherry said:


> So I was struggling to find either the Dialogue or Synapse Wide in a 250 online, except at full retail price on the Salmon site (no sure about their turns policy) but I found and ordered a pair of Salamon HiFi Wides in a 250 with 40% off ?. Excited to get them and try them on.


For future reference it's always worth asking ATBShop in Swindon. They can get hold of stuff not listed on the website, & will price-match. Disclaimer - the owners are friends of mine but I have no financial link.


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## Seppuccu (Dec 4, 2012)

Scocherry said:


> So I was struggling to find either the Dialogue or Synapse Wide in a 250 online, except at full retail price on the Salmon site (no sure about their turns policy) but I found and ordered a pair of Salamon HiFi Wides in a 250 with 40% off ?. Excited to get them and try them on.


250 is still too big, by a full centimeter. It will not cure your foot pains.

Vinegar...or you could try real medicine, like Scholl's fungal nail treatment. But more importantly, it's contaminated all your shoes. The shoes that can withstand it would be washed in 60 degrees (Celsius), or put in the drier. The rest should be disposed of.


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## Radialhead (Jan 3, 2018)

Cider vinegar is real medicine for fungal infections. I battled it for years, nearly got to the point of having nailbeds removed to stop it. Even the nuclear option of prescription drugs for six months didn't work (Sporanox). Tried apple cider vinegar as a last resort - all clear within three months.


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## rocky clark (Dec 11, 2019)

K2 makes a maysis wide in 6 and 6.5. It's just really hard to find because they make very few. You may have to watch their website at the start of the season and order it directly.


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## Seppuccu (Dec 4, 2012)

Radialhead said:


> Cider vinegar is real medicine for fungal infections. I battled it for years, nearly got to the point of having nailbeds removed to stop it. Even the nuclear option of prescription drugs for six months didn't work (Sporanox). Tried apple cider vinegar as a last resort - all clear within three months.


Interesting! Will have to try that if I'm unlucky enough to contract onychomycosis.



rocky clark said:


> K2 makes a maysis wide in 6 and 6.5. It's just really hard to find because they make very few. You may have to watch their website at the start of the season and order it directly.


Are you sure? According to their website it's only produced down to a US7 = Mondo 250.


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## rocky clark (Dec 11, 2019)

Seppuccu said:


> Interesting! Will have to try that if I'm unlucky enough to contract onychomycosis.
> 
> 
> Are you sure? According to their website it's only produced down to a US7 = Mondo 250.


I’m not sure what you’re reading but it lists 6.0 and 6.5 right here:









Maysis Wide Snowboard Boots


Known and loved for its fit and ease of use, the K2 Maysis is loaded with a feature set well above its competition.




k2snow.com





Both sizes are listed in the drop-down as well, but they say sold out.


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

OP, have you looked at Deeluxe boots? Most of their all mountain boots start as small as size 22cm. 
(Don't know about their all mountain models, how wide they are... I only ever owned a XV from them and my 24.5/9.5cm feet were happy with the width of that XV).


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## Scocherry (Feb 11, 2020)

Radialhead said:


> Cider vinegar is real medicine for fungal infections. I battled it for years, nearly got to the point of having nailbeds removed to stop it. Even the nuclear option of prescription drugs for six months didn't work (Sporanox). Tried apple cider vinegar as a last resort - all clear within three months.


How did you apply it or did you just use a foot bath of diluted solution?


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## Scocherry (Feb 11, 2020)

rocky clark said:


> I’m not sure what you’re reading but it lists 6.0 and 6.5 right here:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


When I click on the=at link it takes me to the UK site and the shows the 6/6.5 and I presume that they're UK sizes? Oh and the UK website doesn't sell them direct either .


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## Radialhead (Jan 3, 2018)

Scocherry said:


> How did you apply it or did you just use a foot bath of diluted solution?


Just put it on neat with cotton wool.


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## Scocherry (Feb 11, 2020)

Seppuccu said:


> 250 is still too big, by a full centimeter. It will not cure your foot pains.


But surely that is my best bet as Wiredsport said? I'm just a 240 (maybe a 245 in at least one foot) and if I went down that small wouldn't the my width then become even more of an issue?


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## Scocherry (Feb 11, 2020)

rocky clark said:


> K2 makes a maysis wide in 6 and 6.5. It's just really hard to find because they make very few. You may have to watch their website at the start of the season and order it directly.


You are in fact quite correct according to Blue Tomato


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## Scocherry (Feb 11, 2020)

neni said:


> OP, have you looked at Deeluxe boots? Most of their all mountain boots start as small as size 22cm.
> (Don't know about their all mountain models, how wide they are... I only ever owned a XV from them and my 24.5/9.5cm feet were happy with the width of that XV).


I wasn't really aware of them to be honest but their website is pretty cool  Did you go for a 245 in the XV?


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

Scocherry said:


> I wasn't really aware of them to be honest but their website is pretty cool  Did you go for a 245 in the XV?


Yes, I had a 24.5 XV. At first it fekt very tight, but the liner broke in A LOT. However, I climb and skin/tour a lot, so liners break in quickly for me anyway.
For resort riding, you don't need an XV... but I assume, they use similar liners for their all mountain boots.


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## Seppuccu (Dec 4, 2012)

rocky clark said:


> I’m not sure what you’re reading but it lists 6.0 and 6.5 right here:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


...interesting. Checked my browser history and apparently I was for some reason taken to the Canadian K2 site, which only listed from 7 and up. Perhaps Canadians have larger feet.


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## ridethecliche (Feb 27, 2019)

I don't think Apple cider vinegar or some otc anti fungal Stuff is going to touch that... 

Probably long overdue for GP.


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## Scocherry (Feb 11, 2020)

Finally got my Salomon Hi-Fi Wides in a 25.0 (the smallest the do). They do look like £380 boots (with a triple lacing system etc) so super chuffed to get them for just over £200. 

But I've worn round the house for an hour tonight and they feel comfy - I was expecting them to be super tight and uncomfortable. Well at at least until after a few days of riding. I did get some ache on the outside arch of my left foot after half an hour but it appeared to go about 15 minutes later. To be honest, walking in them, they don't feel hugely different to my 32s Lashed @ 26.0 :-(.

I've still got two weeks of riding booked in this season so tempted just to keep them and see how they are on the slopes. My 32s are pretty done although I did just put new Elite liners in them. I can't see the elusive K2 Maysis Wide anywhere in a 24.0/24.5 and don't really want to ask someone to order in a boot that might not fit. The Deeluxe in a 24.5 (at just their standard width) have been suggested here, and they do look like sweet boots, but I'd be taking a total punt in the dark on both sizing and model (or rather limited to what I can find).

So the question is am I overthinking it all and should at least try and board in the Salomons (I kinda trust Wiredsport's judgement) or do I keep ordering and trying on different boots/sizes until I'm sure?


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## WigMar (Mar 17, 2019)

Scocherry said:


> Finally got my Salomon Hi-Fi Wides in a 25.0 (the smallest the do). They do look like £380 boots (with a triple lacing system etc) so super chuffed to get them for just over £200.
> 
> But I've worn round the house for an hour tonight and they feel comfy - I was expecting them to be super tight and uncomfortable. Well at at least until after a few days of riding. I did get some ache on the outside arch of my left foot after half an hour but it appeared to go about 15 minutes later. To be honest, walking in them, they don't feel hugely different to my 32s Lashed @ 26.0 :-(.
> 
> ...


Chuffed = Stoked? I'm going to try using that. Sounds like you could be mad, but you're stoked. 

Try putting the new Elite liners for the larger boots in the new smaller ones if you feel like you need to suck up more volume. You can heat form in there to move the EVA from high spots to low spots and really fill in those shells.


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## Seppuccu (Dec 4, 2012)

Scocherry said:


> Finally got my Salomon Hi-Fi Wides in a 25.0 (the smallest the do). They do look like £380 boots (with a triple lacing system etc) so super chuffed to get them for just over £200.
> 
> But I've worn round the house for an hour tonight and they feel comfy - I was expecting them to be super tight and uncomfortable. Well at at least until after a few days of riding. I did get some ache on the outside arch of my left foot after half an hour but it appeared to go about 15 minutes later. To be honest, walking in them, they don't feel hugely different to my 32s Lashed @ 26.0 :-(.
> 
> ...


I wish you good luck, good Sir, and hope that your journey to an appropriate boot will not be as long and painful as mine. You might be overthinking it, but seeing that you don't have a "normal" foot it might in fact not be a bad thing. Problem is, you can only know if a boot will fit if you actually try it for a couple of days. Now you have the Salomons - try them. This _will_ most likely cost you a lot - embrace it. 

Personally I find Deeluxe's site not very helpful - but I've been in touch with them previously and they claim that their boots will fit even a 3E if you buy the thermo flex liners and heat mold them. I've quickly browsed their website and (disclaimer: I don't really know wtf I'm talking about now, just intelligent guessing) maybe you should take a look at the Empire, simply because it's Tadashi Fuse's boot. He's Japanese and your foot looks a bit like an "Asian fit" - i.e. wide front, narrow ankle and heel. A.k.a. "platypus foot". 

Which brings us to the next possible route: the Asian fit route. Some companies release Asian fit versions of the boots, basically E width boots with narrow ankles. But this should be considered the last resort, as it involves overseas ordering and punts in the dark, as you described it.

I personally think the correct way of getting boots is the following:

Get a boot in correct Mondo size that doesn't pinch or give you any hot spots, or makes you pronate or supinate
Get a custom foot bed
Get the boot heat molded by someone who knows what they're doing
Go shred, at least five days
Rinse, repeat
Like I said, now you have the Salomons. If it doesn't work out you can come back to the above.


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

Seppuccu said:


> Get the boot heat molded by someone who knows what they're doing


... and here the next problem starts 

OP, good luck. Hope you solved the problem already. 

I got "complicated" feet, so I feel you. I hope that my journey is not over yet as I really hope that one day, I find a good comfy fitting boot with zero DIY modification needed (but assume that it'll never happen); however, the fit and pain got better with ever new boot trial and error. It's worth to keep on experimenting and trying.


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## Scocherry (Feb 11, 2020)

Thanks guys. Now determined to board foot pain free - now I know it's a 'thing'

Got a nice response back from K2 Customer Services I'd thought I'd share (so next season's purchase is sorted too ? )

_Hi Scott,

Thanks for the email. Unfortunately no stores ordered the Maysis wide in a uk 5/24.0

I have checked our European stock list to see if I could find you one but unfortunately they sold out.

There should be some available around September, which I realise is not ideal for you now!
I would be more than happy to arrange a special order for you closer to the time.

Best regards,

Jonny_


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

That will be interesting to see. A lot of times if a brand gets no preseason orders (from retailers) or minimal orders for a size it will not actually be produced. Burton used to make their Wide models in 6 and 6.5 but stopped doing so 2 years ago. This leaves a hole of course. It is worse for women where no wide sizes are produced. 

STOKED!


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## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

@Scocherry I have small feet...mondo 24 and I like performance fit slippers. My recommendation...send back the softboots that you got and get some Atomic Backland AT boots...women's (they don't make men's in 24's). it will still take some mod/tweaking the liners and getting the shells heat moulded...but I have never been happier with the fit and performance...look at the below link.









The hardboot ride...downhill?


Just some thoughts on riding in hardboots...since I haven't seen much but the statement that the ride down is less than desirable than with soft boots. Thoughts on hardboot riding: So currently have 6 days with hards-on...its like taking Viagra. Moi, 60yrs, 5”6”, 172 lbs (goal to get to 160)...




www.snowboardingforum.com


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## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

Scocherry said:


> Thanks guys. Now determined to board foot pain free - now I know it's a 'thing'
> 
> Got a nice response back from K2 Customer Services I'd thought I'd share (so next season's purchase is sorted too ? )
> 
> ...



ehuummm...yea, I was seriously looking at some tridents...even went down to EVO and talked with their head boot guy...who noted they probably only make a very limited number of small sizes...usually just to cover their pro requests/needs. And that even EVO would have a difficultly getting a small sized trident. He noted, I would have to contact Ride directly and early to get a pre season special order. Upon that likelihood, I started to research the AT route and very happy with the backlands...even got a 2nd pair during off season so that I'll have replacements when the first pair wear out in a few years.


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## Scocherry (Feb 11, 2020)

wrathfuldeity said:


> @Scocherry I have small feet...mondo 24 and I like performance fit slippers. My recommendation...send back the softboots that you got and get some Atomic Backland AT boots...women's (they don't make men's in 24's). it will still take some mod/tweaking the liners and getting the shells heat moulded...but I have never been happier with the fit and performance...look at the below link.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Holy Shit @wrathfuldeity you are totally hardcore!!! I want a pair of perfect (or damn close) fitting boots but couldn't go through all that. So glad it worked out for you and I suppose it shows that hard work and temerity pay dividends ???.

I think heat molding and custom footbeds are about the extent of my modifications tbh


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## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

Scocherry said:


> Holy Shit @wrathfuldeity you are totally hardcore!!! I want a pair of perfect (or damn close) fitting boots but couldn't go through all that. So glad it worked out for you and I suppose it shows that hard work and temerity pay dividends ???.
> 
> I think heat molding and custom footbeds are about the extent of my modifications tbh


Its not that spendy nor bad of a process, especially now that you have an idea of how to proceed. Besides once you get them dialed, depending on how much you ride, they will/should hold up for years instead of a couple of seasons. The key is to be patient, my 2nd pair of Atomics were demos/rentals that had only been ridden 2x and had not been heat moulded for $250 and the 1st pair were nib from the previous year...$300. And the heat moulding is a easy diy at home process. I've had both pairs pro heated but now would have no hesisation doing it my self. And the Sparks one binding and dyno DH plates should be abt $350 new. Thus these cost are very comparable to soft boots but you will have a way more responsive, lighter, better fitting, faster in/out (takes only 1-3 seconds) and gnarls set-up than any soft boot combo. Its easier than messing around with my old 32 focus boas (when I finally found them and they worked, I went through 4 pairs in a decade)...women's 7.5 that were never quite stiff enough, and would need tweaking about 15 days in because they would pack out.


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