# Union Forces?



## JHerbC24 (Dec 16, 2010)

So I might buy some new bindings over the summer for next season. I ride a DC PBJ and I have Burton Mission bindings right now. I think I am ready for some new bindings and was looking at Union Forces as my top choice. Any reviews/thoughts on these bindings? Just wanted to get some info on these before I spend $200 on them. Thanks


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## baconzoo (Nov 12, 2010)

I used to ride Mission and now I swear by my Forces. I love them.


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## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

Well I'm guessing by saying $200 you waiting for 2012? In that case I found Raiden Zero's lighter, similar flex but with much better heel dampening. Comfier for me and the toestrap is much better. Mini disc tech too so they give better board flex.

If not those I would pick TT30's, DS30's, M9's, and 390's before Forces any day.


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## sook (Oct 25, 2009)

I have the forces on my jib deck and they are pretty sweet. I wasn't a fan of the toe strap from my year. It worked fine most of the time but the ratchet wasn't the best and I couldn't wear the strap any way other than across the top of my foot without it slipping. Following a post on this forum, I modded the ride 3D toe straps to fit the forces and now they went from a great binding to perfect. Great flex vs. responsiveness, weight, heelstrap ect...


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## IBZ (Jan 4, 2011)

Union Forces are awesome. Why?

1. Lightweight
2. Perfect stiffness for all-mountain riding
3. Longevity
4. Aesthetics
5. Great customer service you get from Union

There is a pair of Union Force Teams on ebay right now. Pretty rare. Great price. Swooop!


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## Thad Osprey (Feb 18, 2009)

Union Forces are a love/hate binding as you have probably figured out by now. Some say its not worth the money, some say its their "go to" binding. Another difficulty is that this Forum has "mood swings" depending on what appears to be the "in" product. There are also people who are more vocal on this forum pushing their thoughts on their personal likes and dislikes and whether or not they receive gear or work in some capacity that may/may not make them partial to a certain company etc...

Heres my 0.5 cents:

a) Union Toe Strap could use improvement though I dont have issues
b) Ratchets are ok despite the criticism (I find Ride and K2 ratchets to be far worse and have had failures with them and none on the Unions surprisingly)
c) Forces are light enough, not the lightest, but theres plenty heavier out there. Fluxes, being one of them. And for all that weight Fluxes have, they have rather poor dampening. 
d) Union Bindings are for the most very durable(except the silly "BB Wheel" inspired Contact Pro highback where one of the skinny spokes broke on me). And the baseplate does crack despite being touted as "STRONGER". But the incidence of wear and tear is alot less than many other bindings. 
e) The middle-of-the road stiffness gives you versatility
f) Dampening is pretty commendable
g) If you are a really indecisive person Forces could be a good choice

Ultimately its going to be a personal choice cos the thoughts/reviews out there are pretty split (except for the toe strap bit which no one sings praises of). But I like everything else about the Forces. And ride it most of the time.


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## JHerbC24 (Dec 16, 2010)

IBZ said:


> Union Forces are awesome. Why?
> 
> 1. Lightweight
> 2. Perfect stiffness for all-mountain riding
> ...


On that last part about Ebay is there any way you could send me the link to that? I may be interested in that

and thanks for the responses! i still want to 2011's but i heard the 2012's arent very good... any info on those? should i wait for the 12's or just go ahead and buy the 11's?


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## rgrwilco (Oct 15, 2007)

^^Spot on. However, if your baseplates crack, they are covered by a lifetime warranty, so that should not be a deciding factor (unless they are cracking all over the place).


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## IBZ (Jan 4, 2011)

JHerbC24 said:


> On that last part about Ebay is there any way you could send me the link to that? I may be interested in that
> 
> and thanks for the responses! i still want to 2011's but i heard the 2012's arent very good... any info on those? should i wait for the 12's or just go ahead and buy the 11's?


I would, but the item already sold. Union Forces go fast on ebay. Usually within 2 days. I'm sure another will pop out, just wait for it.

10-11 forces are the same specs as the 11-12s, I would go with this year because the blue and yellow colorways look better imo than next years neon and red.

zumiez.com still has them in the blue, black and white colorways if you're interested.


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## JHerbC24 (Dec 16, 2010)

i will definitely look into buying these.... should I get M/L or L/XL? i wear size 12 boots

and why are the white ones $40 cheaper than the black or the blue ones?


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## IBZ (Jan 4, 2011)

L/XL for sure.


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## JHerbC24 (Dec 16, 2010)

one more question....
Are the Forces better than Burton Cartels?


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## rgrwilco (Oct 15, 2007)

I wouldn't say better. I like the cartel straPs better, but you cannot adjust the heelcup on the cartels for better boot fit like on the unions. Also, I hate that cartels have built in forward lean.

But there are other buttons and brands I find way better than the forces. It's all personal preference.


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## Leo (Nov 24, 2009)

rgrwilco said:


> Also, I hate that cartels have built in forward lean.


The Burton Gods have answered your prayers for the 2012 Cartels.


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## fattrav (Feb 21, 2009)

JHerbC24 said:


> one more question....
> Are the Forces better than Burton Cartels?


Go into your local snowboard shop, hold a pair of Forces and a Cartel in your hands at the same time, then you tell us which is better. Though I haven't ridden the Forces, I would say go the cartels, sure they have forward lean built in (though maybe not in 2012), but they are a way better finished binding and just as functional as the Force.


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## Thad Osprey (Feb 18, 2009)

fattrav said:


> Go into your local snowboard shop, hold a pair of Forces and a Cartel in your hands at the same time, then you tell us which is better. Though I haven't ridden the Forces, I would say go the cartels, sure they have forward lean built in (though maybe not in 2012), but they are a way better finished binding and just as functional as the Force.


Yeah I agree. Nothing better than going out there and doing some research and holding the binding you are thinking of riding before you buy it. If you can still ride where ur at and can somehow demo stuff, do so. The problem I think a lot of respondents have to threads like these is everyone has a preference. If you (OP) rode many many different bindings, you would also have a preference too and probably wouldnt need to post this. Of course we try to help with opinions but its so confusing. The Cartels are lighter than the Forces, but I've held both in my hands. And I prefer Forces.


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## fattrav (Feb 21, 2009)

Thad Osprey said:


> Yeah I agree. Nothing better than going out there and doing some research and holding the binding you are thinking of riding before you buy it. If you can still ride where ur at and can somehow demo stuff, do so. The problem I think a lot of respondents have to threads like these is everyone has a preference. If you (OP) rode many many different bindings, you would also have a preference too and probably wouldnt need to post this. Of course we try to help with opinions but its so confusing. The Cartels are lighter than the Forces, but I've held both in my hands. And I prefer Forces.


Thats intersting, I havent ridden the Force, but have held them in my hands, have ridden cartels from a few seasons ago and held the same year of cartel along side the union. My preferance, Cartels. My thoughts were that the Union looked archaic by comparison and I didn't think that the build quality was there at all. The highback was so flimsy, the work on the straps was sub-par and they appeared heavier. I have described this to others as 'assembled by monkeys and QA'd by down syndrome kids'.


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## Thad Osprey (Feb 18, 2009)

fattrav said:


> Thats intersting, I havent ridden the Force, but have held them in my hands, have ridden cartels from a few seasons ago and held the same year of cartel along side the union. My preferance, Cartels. My thoughts were that the Union looked archaic by comparison and I didn't think that the build quality was there at all. The highback was so flimsy, the work on the straps was sub-par and they appeared heavier. I have described this to others as 'assembled by monkeys and QA'd by down syndrome kids'.


Well I havent had an extensive go at the Cartels so I cant comment beyond where I last posted. But OP could consider the Cartels as well. They are a popular binding and for good reason. I dont really think the Union Forces look or feel archaic, or that the Cartels look any more modern. I agree Cartels are lighter (but I'm not sure what kind of beating it can withstand). The previous Union straps were honestly quite horrid. The Union ankle strap has improved and so have their toe ratchet by quite a bit. Highback on Forces aren't flimsy and if anything the Cartel highbacks seem flimsier to me (I dont know for sure, I've not broken either one before). I prefer the way Union Force baseplates are set-up and how the cushioning goes, versus the Cartel. To me they are both worthwhile bindings for the OP to consider. 

I'm done discussing preferences in this thread, everyone has one, theres no right answer, and the only way you know if something works for you is to go and put a decent amount of time and effort on a pair of bindings. Main reason for my replying was to help the OP with some honest opinions. I dont think "assembled by monkeys and QA'd by down syndrome kids" is objective/fair/helpful and not sure why you are proud of it enough to reproduce it here. Esp when many people do have problems with Burton bindings too. Over and out.


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## fattrav (Feb 21, 2009)

Thad Osprey said:


> I'm done discussing preferences in this thread, everyone has one, theres no right answer, and the only way you know if something works for you is to go and put a decent amount of time and effort on a pair of bindings. Main reason for my replying was to help the OP with some honest opinions. I dont think "assembled by monkeys and QA'd by down syndrome kids" is objective/fair/helpful and not sure why you are proud of it enough to reproduce it here. Esp when many people do have problems with Burton bindings too. Over and out.


Well, if I were to say what i thought of them on here (they're shit, the rivet work on the ratchets looks like its been carried out in some 3rd world workshop, and the castings that are produced for the bases are... so far behind, its easy to see where the additional weight comes from, the design has not changed since I can remember, thats fine if you have a great product, however, its hardly progressive. Changing the colour each year does not create a new product, it just changes the colour of the old product. Putting a cover on your highback doesnt make it a new product, it makes it the same highback, with a sock on it) the Union fan club would probably start flaming, so i put a humourous touch on it. I laugh when the threads start for "check out the new union for this year", to me...it looks like last years stuff, but a different colour?

Your right though, Cartels aren't with out there problems, nor are any other binding, the cartels I owned 5 seasons ago are a world away from the ones that Burton produce these days though.

I heard that they actually fired the downy kid and promoted one of the monkeys into the QC role, because the kid kept sending back their bindings for QC matters....you heard that here first.


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## twin89 (Jan 21, 2009)

I rode union for 2 seasons now, and i would say spend your $200 elsewhere.

K2 formula, hurrithanes
Flux sf45, tt30, rk30.
Raiden Zero, Phantoms
Rome 390 boss


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## fattrav (Feb 21, 2009)

OP, If you like the Unions, you could perhaps check out Drake as well, they are very similar to Unions, but with updated tech & materials.


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## idshred (Jun 20, 2010)

fattrav said:


> I havent ridden the Force




awesome. thanks for your input on how they look [/sarcasm]


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