# why are prople so against mervin boards (Lib Tech , Gnu, Roxy )



## wrathfuldeity

perhaps its a regional thang...biggie vs tupac....merv...ns...burton


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## Luvmustycarpet1

If that's the case that's pretty lame I live in long island NY n I'm anit Burton very pro mervin


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## chomps1211

wrathfuldeity said:


> perhaps its a regional thang...biggie vs tupac....merv...ns...burton


That'd be my guess too! I see more ppl riding the same model Gnu boards etc, on the hill than I do any others. 

I have yet to see someone riding the same Arbor board as I do. I've only seen _one_ other person on the same Rome Garage rocker as I ride. I've spotted a few ppl on the newer NS Proto, but I've yet to see anyone on the same 12/13 model as mine. 

Yet on any given day on the hills & resorts around here, I will see several ppl riding the exact same Riders Choice, Carbon Credit, Skate banana, etc. I don't even see that many ppl riding the same model Burton boards, and _those_ things are _everywhere_! So not really sure where you are getting all the "Haters gotta Hate" impressions from! :dunno:

(...and just in case anyone's wunderin'? Yes, I'm still newb enough that I do pay attention to and check out other people's gear!)


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## Dutty

I was looking at a skunk ape earlier this year and I ended up not buying it because Mervin boards don't put a full edge around the board. I've seen several boards delaminated in this area when looking around on the hill. Not sure if this is a real problem or happens often, but it was enough to make me look elsewhere.
No hate for Mervin boards though, they seem to be well received performance-wise.


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## ekb18c

I love GNU and Lib boards especially for NY (east coast) mountains.


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## hardasacatshead

I'm not completely against them at all, in fact I really like the TRS, Billy Goat, Hot Knife and Rider's Choice but I have a couple of issues with them.

1. No full wrap edge. I see so many Mervin boards in the lift lines with fucked up noses and tails - much more so than any other breed. I belt my board into submerged trees/rocks all the time and I'm certain the edge has saved my board on a number of occasions. 

2. Shitty bases. I don't like the fact that on a US$700 board like the TRS HP there's a shitty extruded base on the fucking thing. Seriously, that's an expensive board with great tech and they throw garbage on the bottom. I've ridden the TRS HP and it's quick enough for sure, but my mate who owns it reckons wax doesn't last and it just doesn't feel as resilient as his boards with sintered bases. 

So I'm not against Mervin, but I think there are better quality boards out there for much less coin. 

/end rant.


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## Zolemite

Just bought my first Mervin board (14 Space Case) and am happy with my purchase so far. I do think every manufacture makes "good boards" for the most part. It all depends on, rider style, and weight.


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## Bgsmith9

I've never ridden a Mervin board, but to be honest, I really don't plan on it. I don't really like the idea of "magnatraction." I just feel like it's not necessary for my type of riding (park), plus even their cheapest board is expensive compared to others. Plus I like to support some of the smaller, less well known companies, like Signal, Academy and Endeavor.


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## SnowDogWax

Bgsmith9 said:


> I've never ridden a Mervin board, but to be honest, I really don't plan on it. I don't really like the idea of "magnatraction." I just feel like it's not necessary for my type of riding (park), plus even their cheapest board is expensive compared to others. Plus I like to support some of the smaller, less well known companies, like Signal, Academy and Endeavor.


Bought a smokin Superpark to support the smaller company…:yahoo:


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## Big Foot

I hate any company that doesn't make gear in my size. I hate a LOT of snowboard companies.


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## linvillegorge

There are pluses and minuses for not having a fully wrapped edge, but for me personally, the minuses outweigh the pluses.

I'm not anti-Mervyn by any means, but there are just better options on the market for me personally.


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## eastcoaststeeze

Im not against those companies but I noticed my friends t.rice board topsheet is shit. I have a Ride Machete GT w/ membrain top sheet & it holds up 10x better with lift-line damage. His topsheet is tore up after 1 season, mine has maybe a few dings. Never see anything about Ride on this forum, if I do its rare.


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## F1EA

I'm not against them as much as they are against me. Let's see:

1. Expensive 
2. They mostly have rocker underfoot
3. I don't feel like reading what the differences between C3BTx and C2B^2Dx+2 are.

but they are a nearby core company, so it would be cool to support them.


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## BFBF

Luvmustycarpet1 said:


> As I read some of these threads I see a lot of people shiting all over mervin boards and I'm wondering why ppl really dislike them ? I persoanlly love em I had Burton boards , ride boards ,Rome and a bunch more my friends have that I tried .... I personally love everything about libs n gnu... So if your a hater of these boards I'm curious to the reasons behind it ? To each is own if u hate em more power to you I would jus like to hear the reasons behind it.


To care what others think of what I'm riding and wearing on the hill is beyond a waste of time.


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## linvillegorge

F1EA said:


> 3. I don't feel like reading what the differences between C3BTx and C2B^2Dx+2 are.


This is an issue I have with the snowboarding industry in general. And to be fair, it's not an issue unique to this industry in the least. In fact, it's far more the norm than the exception. Most everyone is doing pretty much the same shit, but there's dozens of different names for that same shit depending on which company you're looking at. It makes perfect sense when you're living in the bubble of looking at this from within each respective company, but from the customer's perspective it's just confusing and frustrating.


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## Dago91

Big Foot said:


> I hate any company that doesn't make gear in my size. I hate a LOT of snowboard companies.


PREACH!!!:yahoo:


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## Luvmustycarpet1

BFBF said:


> To care what others think of what I'm riding and wearing on the hill is beyond a waste of time.



Wtf r u talking about? When did i say anything about what you are wearing or riding ? I asked the reason people are bashing mervin boards .....I can give a flying fuck on what you r riding or wearing or anyone else on the mountain for that matter it isn't a fashion show I agree its a waste of time ..idk where I said hey ppl y do you bash other ppl for wearing that or riding that so idk wtf you were or are reading I just want to know the reasons y the bashing when snowboarding is all about personal preferences


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## Dago91

Luvmustycarpet1 said:


> Wtf r u talking about? When did i say anything about what you are wearing or riding ? I asked the reason people are bashing mervin boards .....I can give a flying fuck on what you r riding or wearing or anyone else on the mountain for that matter it isn't a fashion show I agree its a waste of time ..idk where I said hey ppl y do you bash other ppl for wearing that or riding that so idk wtf you were or are reading I just want to know the reasons y the bashing when snowboarding is all about personal preferences


Jesus Christ you type like a cracked out 5 year old.


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## hardasacatshead

Hahaha that thought ran through my head also. :laugh:


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## jdang307

eastcoaststeeze said:


> Im not against those companies but I noticed my friends t.rice board topsheet is shit. I have a Ride Machete GT w/ membrain top sheet & it holds up 10x better with lift-line damage. His topsheet is tore up after 1 season, mine has maybe a few dings. Never see anything about Ride on this forum, if I do its rare.


My K2 topsheet looks like it's crumbling like a cookie along the edges. Topsheet is fine, but it's getting real ugly along the edges and when I saw used K2 Happy hour's for sale on ebay it was the same thing.

I do like that about Never Summer. They're not indestructible of course, but their regular topsheets were solid and their carbonium ones are excellent in my small experience.

Doesn't affect ride of course, but it's just nice.


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## Luvmustycarpet1

I didn't know this was English class and I'm graded on my grammer


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## Fergatron2000

wrathfuldeity said:


> perhaps its a regional thang...biggie vs tupac....merv...ns...burton


+2

I do feel like Mervin's all mtn boards ride well in the heavy wet PNW. But they aren't the only ones to do so. I think other companies do better bases, but durability is not a big issue with Mervin IMHO.


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## Dago91

Luvmustycarpet1 said:


> I didn't know this was English class and I'm graded on my grammer


The fact that you can't spell out the word "English" is whats concerning to me. However, you are right this is not an "English" exam. Please continue your twitter quality grammar.


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## jwelsh83

Luvmustycarpet1 said:


> Wtf r u talking about? When did i say anything about what you are wearing or riding ? I asked the reason people are bashing mervin boards .....I can give a flying fuck on what you r riding or wearing or anyone else on the mountain for that matter it isn't a fashion show I agree its a waste of time ..idk where I said hey ppl y do you bash other ppl for wearing that or riding that so idk wtf you were or are reading I just want to know the reasons y the bashing when snowboarding is all about personal preferences


...That escalated quickly...:blink:


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## Luvmustycarpet1

Dago91 said:


> The fact that you can't spell out the word "English" is whats concerning to me. However, you are right this is not an "English" exam. Please continue your twitter quality grammar.


Lol this is gr8 ...i guess you have nothing better to do with your life but to nit pick spelling on a snowboarding forum :laugh::eusa_clap: good job buddy I hope you are proud of your achievement for the day :yahoo::yahoo::eusa_clap::eusa_clap:


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## SnowDogWax

Luvmustycarpet1 said:


> Lol this is gr8 ...i guess you have nothing better to do with your life but to nit pick spelling on a snowboarding forum :laugh::eusa_clap: good job buddy I hope you are proud of your achievement for the day :yahoo::yahoo::eusa_clap::eusa_clap:


I agree its a waste of time ..idk where I said hey ppl y do you bash other ppl 

your words…


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## Dago91

Luvmustycarpet1 said:


> Lol this is gr8 ...i guess you have nothing better to do with your life but to nit pick spelling on a snowboarding forum :laugh::eusa_clap: good job buddy I hope you are proud of your achievement for the day :yahoo::yahoo::eusa_clap::eusa_clap:


If it helps people to understand you in future life experiences, then I have done my job :thumbsup::thumbsup:


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## Luvmustycarpet1

Dago91 said:


> If it helps people to understand you in future life experiences, then I have done my job :thumbsup::thumbsup:


Thanx pal ;-) ill make sure to have all correct spelling and proper grammer for future posts :thumbsup:


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## d2cycles

jdang307 said:


> My K2 topsheet looks like it's crumbling like a cookie along the edges. QUOTE]
> 
> My K2 Parkstar has 28 days on it and I've had to epoxy top sheet pieces down 6 times. My Lib Tech TRS has quite a bit of minor damage on the nose and tail from hitting things. Strangely, my NS Proto has very little damage nose or tail and has double the days of either board.
> 
> I have hit lots of things with all three boards because I'm a clumsy moron who trys pretty much anything my riding buddy says I should try! :laugh:


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## BFBF

Dago91 said:


> Jesus Christ you type like a cracked out 5 year old.


Crack? 
Looks like meth...:yahoo:


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## Luvmustycarpet1

BFBF said:


> Crack?
> Looks like meth...:yahoo:


Its all in good fun but for the record and set this story str8 its none of the above jus some magic mushrooms :yahoo:


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## Dago91

Luvmustycarpet1 said:


> Its all in good fun


:thumbsup:


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## F1EA

Luvmustycarpet1 said:


> Thanx pal ;-) ill make sure to have all correct spelling and proper grammer for future posts :thumbsup:


*grammar


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## scotty100

F1EA said:


> I'm not against them as much as they are against me. Let's see:
> 
> 3. I don't feel like reading what the differences between C3BTx and C2B^2Dx+2 are.
> 
> .


I agree with that 100%. Their coding system for camber profiles is utterly ridiculous. Can they make it anymore confusing/annoying I wonder? I really don't have time to waste on their website trying to figure out which boards I'd consider profile-wise - it's like playing some code cracking puzzle game...smokin is kinda following the same path these days too having licensed mag tech from them. Enough already with the fkn c2,3,b,x,tt,bc,cb,3b nonsense!


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## wrathfuldeity

scotty100 said:


> I agree with that 100%. Their coding system for camber profiles is utterly ridiculous. Can they make it anymore confusing/annoying I wonder? I really don't have time to waste on their website trying to figure out which boards I'd consider profile-wise - it's like playing some code cracking puzzle game...smokin is kinda following the same path these days too having licensed mag tech from them. Enough already with the fkn c2,3,b,x,tt,bc,cb,3b nonsense!


u forgot pbx


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## destroy

This is the Never Summer Enthusiasts Forum.

ColoradBROS gunna h8.


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## chomps1211

scotty100 said:


> ..... Enough already with the fkn c2,3,b,x,tt,bc,cb,3b nonsense!





wrathfuldeity said:


> u forgot pbx



:dizzy: After reading that? I need a couple PBR's!


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## Nivek

I'm likely classified by most as a "hater".
My reasons:
Full wrap your damn edges. You can still get the benefits they tout with a full wraped edge, just maintain the tip fill depth they have. 

Dead. They're heavy and mostly dead feeling. Unless you want to spend for HP which is marginally better.

HP. Fuck off with $700 boards. I've worked with basalt, it isn't THAT much better.

Prices. Seriously the lowest end Mervin is $400. And their "jibstick" is $460.

Marketing. While I will always be impressed with their ability to command blind loyalty, I hate brands that do that. Oh and just cause the market decided that full rocker generally sucks, save Arbor, don't go try and telling everyone that BTX has "mild camber" in the previously flat zone.

Made in the US, or "Near Canada", is better. Shush, no it isn't.

Magne. Other than Mellow Mag, they who invented it are the worst at using it. 

Bent Metal. Please just kill that brand. While you're at it, Gnu bindings too. Gross.

4 RC profiles. REALLY!!??



F1EA said:


> I'm not against them as much as they are against me. Let's see:
> 
> 1. Expensive
> 2. They mostly have rocker underfoot
> 3. I don't feel like reading what the differences between C3BTx and C2B^2Dx+2 are.
> 
> but they are a nearby core company, so it would be cool to support them.


What means, "core"...


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## SnowDogWax

Feel like playing my violin.


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## 24WERD

All I know is that 99% of the people I ride have Mervin boards for all mt riding or neversummer. 

I remember last year or the yr before if I didn't have mtx on mammoth slopes going down mills I would have died from the ice . All ice. All the way down. 

On the wrap edge . At least it's easier to dentune the tip n tail.

There's also ass ptx which diff from just ptx


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## Bones

scotty100 said:


> I agree with that 100%. Their coding system for camber profiles is utterly ridiculous... Enough already with the fkn c2,3,b,x,tt,bc,cb,3b nonsense!


It's just a personal perception, but I'm finding companies are going in one of 2 directions: either they overload you with company specific tech terminology or they ignore it completely and talk about how the board makes you feel. I kind of zone out when I encounter either. The tech term heavy companies piss me off. I send hours fighting thru their specs only to find that it sounds like every other board. I'm left wondering if the buzz is all marketing hype or if I missed something in the description. Usually I realize that this is the same question that I started with and I scream "WHY ARE YOU MAKING IT SO HARD TO BUY A BOARD FROM YOU?"

And move on to a different company.


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## F1EA

Nivek said:


> What means, "core"...


At the center of... 
as in, at the center of the West coast snowboard scene. They're everywhere around here.

But i see what you mean, it's actually not the common use for the word 'core'. Ah well.


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## tonicusa

I stumbled onto the 2014 Darker Series with C3 meaning pretty close to regular camber. All I ride is camber normally, and camrock on my powder board. This Lib Darker is definitely not dead feeling. I collect poppy camber boards, UnInc, Jibpan, OG, NAS and the the Darker can hang with any of them for pop. "Maybe" a hair less poppy but more fun with that little bit of Banana and carves great. Granted its the stiffest board in the lineup and also one of the few C3 boards but it's the real deal. I rode it the whole second half of this season and it just slays. Love this board off of big jumps.


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## F1EA

Bones said:


> "WHY ARE YOU MAKING IT SO HARD TO BUY A BOARD FROM YOU?"
> 
> And move on to a different company.


Yep, exactly how I feel. I don't hate them, just move on. A shame really.

why it is so difficult to call stuff what it is?
Ok, magnetraction i get it... it's a TM. But the camber profiles....... pfffft


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## Bones

F1EA said:


> Yep, exactly how I feel. I just move on. A shame really.


It costs them a sale every time.

I tend to buy my boards online. Although I live in a major Canadian City, the local retail scene is dominated by one local ski store whose board section is purely Burton and Ride. They also do organize all the demo days at hills around here so they're all Burton and Ride as well. So I do a lot of online research, read a lot of reviews (thanks BA, Nivek and others) and then take a chance and buy it sight unseen.

Mervin stuff starts out on my list, but never makes the short list because I get too frustrated even comparing their models, let alone comparing their stuff to a competitor.


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## SnowDogWax

tonicusa said:


> I stumbled onto the 2014 Darker Series with C3 meaning pretty close to regular camber. All I ride is camber normally, and camrock on my powder board. This Lib Darker is definitely not dead feeling. I collect poppy camber boards, UnInc, Jibpan, OG, NAS and the the Darker can hang with any of them for pop. "Maybe" a hair less poppy but more fun with that little bit of Banana and carves great. Granted its the stiffest board in the lineup and also one of the few C3 boards but it's the real deal. I rode it the whole second half of this season and it just slays. Love this board off of big jumps.


Hot Knife a true twin with C3 same camber dominate profile not as stiff as Darker Series but wow fast and great for riding switch had lots of pop a tammer Darker Series ride. Now looking to snag a year end deal on either Lib Tech Darker Series or Rossi XV.


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## Nivek

tonicusa said:


> I stumbled onto the 2014 Darker Series with C3 meaning pretty close to regular camber. All I ride is camber normally, and camrock on my powder board. This Lib Darker is definitely not dead feeling. I collect poppy camber boards, UnInc, Jibpan, OG, NAS and the the Darker can hang with any of them for pop. "Maybe" a hair less poppy but more fun with that little bit of Banana and carves great. Granted its the stiffest board in the lineup and also one of the few C3 boards but it's the real deal. I rode it the whole second half of this season and it just slays. Love this board off of big jumps.


And it retails for $665. Argument invalid.


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## cutcotim

SnowDogWax said:


> Hot Knife a true twin with C3 same camber dominate profile not as stiff as Darker Series but wow fast and great for riding switch had lots of pop a tammer Darker Series ride. Now looking to snag a year end deal on either Lib Tech Darker Series or Rossi XV.


Just get the Darker...!!  Isn't it like 30% off now?


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## SnowDogWax

Nivek said:


> And it retails for $665. Argument invalid.


Blinded by $$$$. your arguments are invalid


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## cutcotim

Nivek said:


> And it retails for $665. Argument invalid.


Who cares. Do you work? Argument invalid.

If it's good enough, and you're gonna ride it 3-5 years+.....who cares?


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## F1EA

cutcotim said:


> Who cares. Do you work? Argument invalid.
> 
> If it's good enough, and you're gonna ride it 3-5 years+.....who cares?


hmmm at the risk of sounding like a hater.......

The price does matter. A lot. 

For example, I work. I can afford $665, $700... and even more. That doesn't mean I will buy anything; just because they add a market catch-phrase to the deck or come up with inventive ways to name simple stuff and make it sound more expensive than it should be... many products are good enough, and you can ride 3-5 yrs.

But yeah... Nivek be hatin


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## 24WERD

Only suckers pays retail.


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## snowman55

I have a TRS and have also owned the Skate Banana. I like the TRS but didn't like the Skate Banana's full rocker profile. 

Like many have mentioned, the nose/tail gets abused more because of the missing edge than my other boards. 

Mag is for real though and noticeable when riding on east coast ice.

I bought them mainly because they were the only  company making true twin boards with Mag at the time. I also got them at 50% off retail few years back from Dogfunk. 

They are not worth the money at their regular prices. There are just too many better options at lower prices these days. 

Smokin, Rossignol, and Yes all make true twin boards with Mag these days at a better price point.


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## cutcotim

F1EA said:


> hmmm at the risk of sounding like a hater.......
> 
> The price does matter. A lot.
> 
> For example, I work. I can afford $665, $700... and even more. That doesn't mean I will buy anything; just because they add a market catch-phrase to the deck or come up with inventive ways to name simple stuff and make it sound more expensive than it should be... many products are good enough, and you can ride 3-5 yrs.
> 
> But yeah... Nivek be hatin



Yea I was mostly being a smart ass in response to him.

But I normally buy gear at discount, 20-30% off makes a big difference. Plus, it's kinda nice to buy top of the line stuff made in the U.S. (for boards at least).


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## Nivek

cutcotim said:


> Who cares. Do you work? Argument invalid.
> 
> If it's good enough, and you're gonna ride it 3-5 years+.....who cares?


The continued justification of a $650+ dollar board bothers me and it should bother you. You can afford it sure. I don't even pay for shit so I don't care. But I would rather snowboarding not turn into skiing where paying $800 for a deck is average for a solid option.

How do they justify the price of the Darker? Or even the HP's? My best argument, Salomon Mans board and Flow Blackout. Mans Board: Sustainable core, bamboo, basalt, cork sidewalls, and one of the greatest bases on the market, $165 less than the Darker. Blackout: Structurn base, ABT silicone implants under the base, carbon forks in the tips, basalt plates under foot, $115 less than the Darker. Darker: Basalt/Glass combo, Beans Topsheet, a little bit of fancy core lamination, Magne, sintered base. Where's that extra $120? Probably that "Made Near Canada" Badge it comes with.


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## tdn

Their jargon is ridiculous and I feel that they're overpriced for what they are. I also never found the humor in made near Canada and many of their graphics give me seizures. I also get that dead feeling from the very limited boards I've ridden. Magnetraction has been overkill for me, despite being on the ice coast but that has never stopped me from recommending it to people who have trouble with ice. It's much easier to buy from their competitors at a reasonable price, good warranty and boards that I know I will enjoy rather than take a chance. That doesn't mean I won't be on a Mervin board someday.


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## Redline

Big Foot said:


> I hate any company that doesn't make gear in my size. I hate a LOT of snowboard companies.


What size board do you need that Mervin doesn't make?


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## tonicusa

I own a ton of boards and have been riding since the sport started. I've learned that you never know when a board is going to be golden for you. I ride anything and will try anything. Because some of my favorite boards have been beat up used no name brands. I have no problem riding some shit board if it clicks with my riding style. But the converse holds true as well. I'm not afraid to buy an expensive board because if it doesn't wow me I will flip it and be done with it. 

I must admit I paid full price for my Darker from Dogfunk and never thought twice about it after I stepped on that thing. I've owned the Altered Genetics, Rice etc never that impressed. The C3 Darker? Yeah Baby.


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## jtg

One of their reps straight up told me the other day that the "made near canada" thing caused their sales to shoot up.

"It sounds weird, but sales skyrocketed, so we keep it"


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## Luvmustycarpet1

It might not matter to some but for me I would like to buy a board that I'm going to be riding made in the USA or in Canada or Austria and not made in Dubai or China ..so if the price difference is a 100$ or so I have no problem shelling out the extra $$ .


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## 9won4

I was really big into Mervin Boards and still have a couple in my quiver. The only one I really ride anymore is an old 151 Rider's Choice.

My reasoning is based on board weight, most of these boards feel like stiff tanks (at least the ones I own). When I jump on something else, I have more pop, mobility all in all and a better ride. I was sold on Mervin boards initially wanting a quiver killer to shred through Ice, and the deep stuff. A properly maintained board with a skilled rider will do the same.

As far as the Boards not having fully wrapped edges, not a HUGE deal to me, I have had to file/sand noses and tails and do a little epoxy work here and there. No big deal

All and all I think there is so much Mervin hate because a lot of people think it's the end all be all board, IMO it's not....... I ride everything in my quiver more than my Mervin's.

That being said I have a 2013" 153 Attack Banana with 2 RUNS! RUNS! on it.... (happy to sell  ) put it back in the car and jumped on a lighter forum park board.


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## wrathfuldeity

jtg said:


> One of their reps straight up told me the other day that the "made near canada" thing caused their sales to shoot up.
> 
> "It sounds weird, but sales skyrocketed, so we keep it"


I live near Canada....shit our economy is based on Canadians spending money...they are bad phukin drivers though and leave their trash from spending sprees littering the mall parking lots. Though I'd imagine the Canadians on here don't go to the mall much...and neither do I.


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## jtg

wrathfuldeity said:


> I live near Canada....shit our economy is based on Canadians spending money...they are bad phukin drivers though and leave their trash from spending sprees littering the mall parking lots. Though I'd imagine the Canadians on here don't go to the mall much...and neither do I.


Yeah, the problem is you guys get the big immigrant families from Surrey who are willing to drive that far to save on some milk. Bad sample  Worst of all...they DONT MOVE OUT OF THE LEFT LANE.


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## F1EA

jtg said:


> They DONT MOVE OUT OF THE LEFT LANE.


Totally true!!
:RantExplode:



cutcotim said:


> Yea I was mostly being a smart ass in response to him.
> 
> But I normally buy gear at discount, 20-30% off makes a big difference. Plus, it's kinda nice to buy top of the line stuff made in the U.S. (for boards at least).


I know you were being sarcastic. 

20-30% discount generally applies to everything, so the relative gap in price still remains.

Made in US is not top of the line.

That said, i am going to give Mervin a fair shot and demo at least 2 of their new boards at an upcoming demo day... if i like them and think they're worth the extra $$, i would def get them. I know they're good, but somehow i doubt enough to pay so much.


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## scotty100

Nivek said:


> The continued justification of a $650+ dollar board bothers me and it should bother you. You can afford it sure. I don't even pay for shit so I don't care. But I would rather snowboarding not turn into skiing where paying $800 for a deck is average for a solid option.
> 
> How do they justify the price of the Darker? Or even the HP's? My best argument, Salomon Mans board and Flow Blackout. Mans Board: Sustainable core, bamboo, basalt, cork sidewalls, and one of the greatest bases on the market, $165 less than the Darker. Blackout: Structurn base, ABT silicone implants under the base, carbon forks in the tips, basalt plates under foot, $115 less than the Darker. Darker: Basalt/Glass combo, Beans Topsheet, a little bit of fancy core lamination, Magne, sintered base. Where's that extra $120? Probably that "Made Near Canada" Badge it comes with.


I'm with Nivek on this one. The Salomon comparison aside - yes, Salomon achieve lower price because they have cheaper manufacturing at higher volumes - Mervin's pricing doesn't reflect the quality of the product. 700 bucks is crazy for a board that should be in the $500-550 range. I've never been attracted to them. Hate the nonsense camber coding BS, and they do feel heavy as fk lifting one up. And I don't get the "they are so core" argument either. Last year they were owned by Quiksilver who dumped them off to some venture capital company looking for a way to maximize their investment...i.e. spend more on marketing gobbledegook and charge 700 bucks for a plank with some "ltd graphics" on it that is supposedly sustainable blah blah blah.

They are about as core as Walmart.


----------



## poutanen

F1EA said:


> 3. I don't feel like reading what the differences between C3BTx and C2B^2Dx+2 are.


This is one of the big reasons I ignore most of the mainstream board companies! Too many names for the same shit! Put a picture/drawing of the base profile on your site next to each board, and I can make my own judgment on if it'll be the BEST at carving, powder, ice, trees, jibs, blowjobs, etc...



Bones said:


> It's just a personal perception, but I'm finding companies are going in one of 2 directions: either they overload you with company specific tech terminology or they ignore it completely and talk about how the board makes you feel. I kind of zone out when I encounter either.


This is why I like board companies that put specific specs of each board on their site. Burton's actually good at this too, but think Prior, Venture, etc. and you can see exactly what you're buying, because they tell you exactly what you're buying.



Luvmustycarpet1 said:


> It might not matter to some but for me I would like to buy a board that I'm going to be riding made in the USA or in Canada or Austria and not made in Dubai or China ..so if the price difference is a 100$ or so I have no problem shelling out the extra $$ .


It's not like the air is any different in North America vs the rest of the world. In fact, generally speaking North America has been at a disadvantage quality wise compared to the asian countries at manufacturing in the last 50 years or so. Custom board builders aside, if I'm buying a board, I don't care where it's made.

For the price of a Mervin, you can get a truly custom board made in Canada (Prior), the states (Venture), Germany, Switzterland, etc.


----------



## hightyme

*Nothing but Love*

To Each Their Own....
I personally love em. Just bought my gf a Gnu B-Nice.
Many of my friends also ride Libs and the Roxy's for woman all look great.
I dont mind the "coding" for board designs, not difficult to learn them
(or even just goggle them at any time, I'm sure we all have smart phones) :thumbsup:
As of late, I do prefer Rome but Mervin would always be a top 5 choice IMO


----------



## SnowDragon

I converted to Lib Tech boards a couple of years ago after getting fed up with boards sliding out on me on the ice/hardpack I have to endure at my local resorts. 
I find that magnetraction works for me (and no, not the .5 crap they've put on some boards now). I also love the looser, more playful feel of hybrid rocker over hybrid camber/camber. So LT boards have worked for me.

However:
Yes, the prices have gotten out of hand it seems.
The boards ARE heavy - and I am currently riding two of the horsepower boards.

So let me ask for recommendations for boards that:
Have EXCELLENT edge hold. Non-negotiable.
Are hybrid rocker profile. 
True twin or directional twin.
Not heavy.
Not overly expensive.

I am genuinely open to suggestions.


----------



## 24WERD

mervin boards you can find at discounts of 40-50%.

Small custom mfg rarely have surplus of boards and if so, not at a discount.

At the end of the day when it is about quality and price, mervin is still cheaper.


my price range for stuff are for jib boards no more then 200$

for everything else no more then 300$ mt board, powder boards.

Maybe Mervin is the Devil? that 's why people hate them. They should change the logo to a Wizard, instead of a goat and star.


----------



## baldylox

Lack of full wrap.

Where on the island are you from?


----------



## Luvmustycarpet1

baldylox said:


> Lack of full wrap.
> 
> Where on the island are you from?


Live in Ronkonkoma , Suffolk county NY


----------



## Fergatron2000

destroy said:


> This is the Never Summer Enthusiasts Forum.
> 
> ColoradBROS gunna h8.


I hate NS for not naming the Legacy the SL wide. :cheeky4:


----------



## I need a name

I love my T rice. Unless someone can give me a more stable board that kills it everywhere, I'm a loyal lib tech fanboy.


----------



## Luvmustycarpet1

I need a name said:


> I love my T rice. Unless someone can give me a more stable board that kills it everywhere, I'm a loyal lib tech fanboy.


im with you on that i love my T rice HP its the perfect board for the type of rider i am ... i have ridden many boards and owned many boards and i felt most comfortable on my T Rice !:yahoo:


----------



## SnowDogWax

T rice HP one of LibTech best all everything board….Got a SkunkApe HP delivered will be hitting slopes with it soon.


----------



## Luvmustycarpet1

24WERD said:


> mervin boards you can find at discounts of 40-50%.
> 
> Small custom mfg rarely have surplus of boards and if so, not at a discount.
> 
> At the end of the day when it is about quality and price, mervin is still cheaper.
> 
> 
> my price range for stuff are for jib boards no more then 200$
> 
> for everything else no more then 300$ mt board, powder boards.
> 
> Maybe Mervin is the Devil? that 's why people hate them. They should change the logo to a Wizard, instead of a goat and star.


Im not doubting you but i have a hard time finding a board that is classified as a all mountain freestyle board and that has a sintered base some tri ax bi ax glass a light strong core for 300$ band new and im not talking abut a blem board or end of season discount ... if you can please let me know the companies that produce these boards for this price range.. and are they quality boards ?


----------



## Luvmustycarpet1

SnowDogWax said:


> T rice HP one of LibTech best all everything board….Got a SkunkApe HP delivered will be hitting slopes with it soon.


The T. Rice HP is Def a great all around board that im so happy i got and being i took a gamble on a blemish regular version of the T Rice, they sent me the HP version instead and did not charge me for the price difference makes it THAT MUCH BETTER !!! almost 45% off the hefty price tag and the blemish was a little dimple on the top sheet id say its worth the 390$ i paid for it .... Good luck with the SkunkApe HP i heard nothing but goodthings about it esp if your a bigger rider


----------



## SnowDogWax

Love a great deal story,


----------



## tonicusa

I love my Lib Darker in the park. It has way more pop than any camrock board I've been on and just a hair less than regular camber. It is a little heavy but unless you're getting inverted or spinning 5s and greater you won't notice. The little bit of rocker makes it forgiving while still feeling like regular camber, which makes sending big jumps more comfortable. I know TBT has full camber with lifted edges but I don't like the way it rides and I've owned most of the Bataleons. The Darker is a better carver than any of the Bataleons. If there's something lighter and poppier that isn't full camber someone please tell me.


----------



## SnowDogWax

tonicusa

Have you ever considered the Rossi XV


----------



## 16gkid

GreyDragon said:


> I converted to Lib Tech boards a couple of years ago after getting fed up with boards sliding out on me on the ice/hardpack I have to endure at my local resorts.
> I find that magnetraction works for me (and no, not the .5 crap they've put on some boards now). I also love the looser, more playful feel of hybrid rocker over hybrid camber/camber. So LT boards have worked for me.
> 
> However:
> Yes, the prices have gotten out of hand it seems.
> The boards ARE heavy - and I am currently riding two of the horsepower boards.
> 
> So let me ask for recommendations for boards that:
> Have EXCELLENT edge hold. Non-negotiable.
> Are hybrid rocker profile.
> True twin or directional twin.
> Not heavy.
> Not overly expensive.
> 
> I am genuinely open to suggestions.


There are a couple of brand new Rossignol Kryptos and Experience boards on ebay for less than 3 bills shipped, both have magnetraction, rcr profile(better hybrid profile IMO), directional twins, stupid light and dirty cheap for the tech you get, if youre the right size, then even have some for 240 shipped.
*inbeforerossignolisaskicompany*


----------



## F1EA

tonicusa said:


> I love my Lib Darker in the park. It has way more pop than any camrock board I've been on and just a hair less than regular camber. It is a little heavy but unless you're getting inverted or spinning 5s and greater you won't notice. The little bit of rocker makes it forgiving while still feeling like regular camber, which makes sending big jumps more comfortable. I know TBT has full camber with lifted edges but I don't like the way it rides and I've owned most of the Bataleons. The Darker is a better carver than any of the Bataleons. If there's something lighter and poppier that isn't full camber someone please tell me.


My Endeavor Live 2014.

It is R/C/R (3mm/5mm/3mm). Two tip-to-tail carbon stringers. Sintered 7500 base, directional twin. A TON of pop, and it is super light. Cost me about $250 less than what the Libs run here. 

Maybe you'd get better presses out the C/R/C profile, but the pop and stability is amazing.

Again, i'm not trying to hate or dissuade anyone from getting or liking the Libs/Gnu... if you like them, you like them and that's unarguable. But there's other options out there... that's what it's all about.


----------



## tonicusa

SnowDogWax said:


> tonicusa
> 
> Have you ever considered the Rossi XV


No I just assumed the camrock profile was the same as the Yes boards which were all too soft for me coming from regular camber.


----------



## tonicusa

F1EA said:


> My Endeavor Live 2014.
> 
> It is R/C/R (3mm/5mm/3mm). Two tip-to-tail carbon stringers. Sintered 7500 base, directional twin. A TON of pop, and it is super light. Cost me about $250 less than what the Libs run here.
> 
> Maybe you'd get better presses out the C/R/C profile, but the pop and stability is amazing.
> 
> Again, i'm not trying to hate or dissuade anyone from getting or liking the Libs/Gnu... if you like them, you like them and that's unarguable. But there's other options out there... that's what it's all about.


Interesting. I almost bought their regular camber High 5. I'll try the Live. The reverse isn't too soft? Are you comparing it to regular camber boards? For me poppy boards are UnInc, Agent, OG, NAS, etc. Cambered boards that some people find stiff.


----------



## neni

F1EA said:


> I'm not against them as much as they are against me. Let's see:
> 
> 1. Expensive
> 2. They mostly have rocker underfoot
> *3. I don't feel like reading what the differences between C3BTx and C2B^2Dx+2 are.*


+1
And the same goes for Flux bindings


----------



## F1EA

tonicusa said:


> Interesting. I almost bought their regular camber High 5. I'll try the Live. The reverse isn't too soft? Are you comparing it to regular camber boards? For me poppy boards are UnInc, Agent, OG, NAS, etc. Cambered boards that some people find stiff.


Whoa ok, it's not like the High 5. That thing has insane camber plus the double carbon strings. 

The Live is triax though, so triax plus double carbon, plus the camber make it pretty stiff. Stiffer than the High 5 for sure. The rocker makes it much more versatile than the Hi5 as well. It is very versatile, except for pure mellow jibbing... but for everything aggressive, big and on pow, it hits the target.

I would say when new, it's about 8/10. After 25 days it's softened a bit... but it's still at around 7+/10. Still is definitely stiffer than the Jibsaw, Yes greats, Assassin etc. i'd put it as slightly flexier than the Man's board and around the stiffer TRices.

The rocker sounds small, but because the camber section goes past the inserts, you get more effective lift of the tip and tail. I think most R/C/R profiles do not bring the camber all the way past the inserts... This makes it really interesting because your feet are actually on camber, and your weight pushes the rocker up.

I think Endeavor were trying for a flexier more forgiving board (mid flex), but ended up going really stiff (like a freeriding board). Last yr's Live had only 1 carbon stringer and was biax i think. Endeavor even released a softer version later this season (probably after seeing the success of boards like Villain, Proto etc), and who knows maybe even feedback from people finding it too stiff.

Anyways, i don't think i'm as experienced as you or many other ppl in the forum in terms of reviews, but that's more or less my take.


----------



## Efilnikufesin

tonicusa said:


> I love my Lib Darker in the park. It has way more pop than any camrock board I've been on and just a hair less than regular camber. It is a little heavy but unless you're getting inverted or spinning 5s and greater you won't notice. The little bit of rocker makes it forgiving while still feeling like regular camber, which makes sending big jumps more comfortable. I know TBT has full camber with lifted edges but I don't like the way it rides and I've owned most of the Bataleons. The Darker is a better carver than any of the Bataleons. If there's something lighter and poppier that isn't full camber someone please tell me.



Rome Mod Rocker, flat with raised tips. Light and does everything from hard carving, great on jumps, and tight trees with a lot of pop. Good in pow, may have to lean back a bit when real deep, but not uncomfortably so. About a 5-7 on the stiffness scale depending on length width but still nicely pressable once you find the sweet spot. 

Can find some good prices on it on evo, etc right now. Bought it as a slightly more playful board to complement my other stiff cambered boards yet haven't touched my other boards in two years now, it carves just as well. Only thing I really change is my bindings from Rome 390's to Ride Capos depending on what I am more up for that day.

Ride Machete and similar K2 boards may fit the bill as well.


----------



## tonicusa

Cool F1EA that sounds really interesting. If it's stiffer than The Greats and closer to the T. Rice then that sounds like a fun stick. I'll give one a spin.

Thanks EFIL I have been thinking about giving the Mod Rocker a try as well. I know a couple guys that love it.


----------



## snowman55

Efilnikufesin said:


> Rome Mod Rocker, flat with raised tips. Light and does everything from hard carving, great on jumps, and tight trees with a lot of pop. Good in pow, may have to lean back a bit when real deep, but not uncomfortably so. About a 5-7 on the stiffness scale depending on length width but still nicely pressable once you find the sweet spot.
> 
> Can find some good prices on it on evo, etc right now. Bought it as a slightly more playful board to complement my other stiff cambered boards yet haven't touched my other boards in two years now, it carves just as well. Only thing I really change is my bindings from Rome 390's to Ride Capos depending on what I am more up for that day.
> 
> Ride Machete and similar K2 boards may fit the bill as well.


Good to hear this about the Mod Rocker. I bought one (153cm) but didn't get to ride it yet and looks like I won't be able to ride it until next season.

I'm a big fan of Rome's Free Pop Rocker profile. I like the fact the flat section goes 2" past the binding inserts and the rocker on the tip/tail is very mild. 

I'll probably use the Malavitas reflex on it.


----------



## F1EA

tonicusa said:


> Cool F1EA that sounds really interesting. If it's stiffer than The Greats and closer to the T. Rice then that sounds like a fun stick. I'll give one a spin.


:thumbsup: 
yea, for sure stiffer than Greats and Assassin and not quite as stiff as the Man's Board. TRice has different stiffness depending on length so I forgot which ones I checked... but i'm almost positive it was about the same as the stiffer TRice (the one with the pow nose), oh and close to the Yes - Pick your Line as well.

The one thing i think they missed a little is the sidecut: a little too aggressive (~7.7m) for how stiff and fast this board rides (again, maybe because the board turned out stiffer than they planned or because i ride it mostly all mtn and not much park).

On Endeavor's description they say somethig like "a board anyone can ride even if it's their first day at the hill". That's BS hahahahaha. This stick would give a whooping to a first day rider. It beats my ass riding switch... i have to practice switch on a much softer board and then take it to this one.

Oh BTW i'm 170 lbs and ride the 159cm.


----------



## SnowDragon

16gkid said:


> There are a couple of brand new Rossignol Kryptos and Experience boards on ebay for less than 3 bills shipped, both have magnetraction, rcr profile(better hybrid profile IMO), directional twins, stupid light and dirty cheap for the tech you get, if youre the right size, then even have some for 240 shipped.
> *inbeforerossignolisaskicompany*


Gotta admit, I've been intrigued by the Rossignol boards for a few years now.
Absolutely great value!

Not sure if I can go back to R/C/R though.
I had a YES Great Beauties and it did nothing for me.
I figured that R/C/R was the issue.

I may have to take a flyer on a Rossi.
Krypto or XV look interesting for an aggressive board.
And deals on the Jibsaw, for a softer board, abound around here.


----------



## mhaas

Im riding a Gnu Billy Goat right now. I think the thing is built really solid and handles my abuse pretty well. The base can take a rock like a champ. The no edges on the tip thing is annoying but I just try to avoid hitting stuff. 

I might get another Mervin next year or I might not.I had no idea they were so polorizing .

The made in the USA thing pretty big for me but they are not the only ones.


----------



## poutanen

Am I the only one who doesn't know what a "PROPLE" is? :laugh:



GreyDragon said:


> Not sure if I can go back to R/C/R though.
> I had a YES Great Beauties and it did nothing for me.
> I figured that R/C/R was the issue.


I wonder if Burton will bring the Landlord to Blue for a demo day? I'm a big fan of RCR, or mild camber with an early rise nose...


----------



## snowman55

GreyDragon said:


> Gotta admit, I've been intrigued by the Rossignol boards for a few years now.
> Absolutely great value!
> 
> Not sure if I can go back to R/C/R though.
> I had a YES Great Beauties and it did nothing for me.
> I figured that R/C/R was the issue.
> 
> I may have to take a flyer on a Rossi.
> Krypto or XV look interesting for an aggressive board.
> And deals on the Jibsaw, for a softer board, abound around here.



I have the Angus and Templar. I like their R/C/R for the most part but I would have preferred Rossi extend the camber out more past the inserts instead of ending it at the middle of the inserts. Having the camber end at the feet feels little funny to me at times.


----------



## Bparmz

poutanen said:


> Am I the only one who doesn't know what a "PROPLE" is? :laugh:


Every time I have clicked on this thread, I have said the same thing!


----------



## chomps1211

Bparmz said:


> Every time I have clicked on this thread, I have said the same thing!


Lol! Yeah, it's really embarrassing to make a mistake in the thread title. No way to go back and fix it with an edit! (...I've made a few of those mistakes myself.) 

Happens to me more often posting from my phone. Fat fingers, Damned tiny keybord and F'ing auto correct! :laugh:


----------



## SnowDogWax

Pro-People for short


----------



## extra0

guess I was somewhat turned off by mervin when they came out with their first rocker board. By most accounts, the first few "bananas" were a total poc...but, for some retarded reason, the name/catch phrase, itself, was a big hit and mervin proceeded to hype the living shit out of it. Mervin never admitted to changing the banana's base contours until neversummer started claiming the invention of something extremely similar (rocker+camber).

The design that has developed, either by mervin or neversummer, is interesting, but I'm still stoked on bataleon's ultra smooth ride...it just works very well for my riding style and my resort's terrain/conditions. 

If neversummer uses full wrap around edges(?), seems that would be a better choice.


----------



## PalmerFreak

Got a good end of season deal on my Trice last year and it has been solid so far. I agree that Mervin uses some confusing acronyms but they explain their tech pretty well on the Lib site - all with pictures:

Snowboard Technology – Lib Tech


----------



## ryannorthcott

Haven't read through this whole thread, but the one thing I've found with mervin boards is that they are on the heavier side, which I don't like. I'm sure they are well built and have great tech but I haven't been able to get by the weight of them... That's the main reason I've started to look elsewhere for my next board.


----------



## Lstarrasl

I didn't read through this post but I will never buy any board besides a Lib or Gnu the rest of my life. I'm from Seattle and that's what we ride. Been riding them since 93.


Circa 93-94 Hyak Wa on my MC!


----------



## thatkidwho

Not everyone from Seattle rides lib or gnu. Mid 90s we would hit the Ride warehouse in redmond for stickers and blems. Sims was up in Bothell, Columbia was around the corner. Back to redmond for dumpster diving at Nintendo. I gotta say Seattle in the 90 was something. Now its just MS and Starbucks every where.


----------



## wrathfuldeity

Hopefully some Gnu folks are following this...anyway talking to some folks at the Baker Splitfest yesterday and they were either wishing or had gone back and dug out their old gnu mtx....so

Friggin bring back/start doing again... a fully cambered magnetraction


----------



## jtg

Lstarrasl said:


> I'm from Seattle and that's what we ride.


No we don't and corporate loyalty is silly


----------



## twowheeled

ain't no hate on the local slopes.. libtech and gnu are all the rage this year seems like all the kids are on them.


----------



## hardasacatshead

SGboarder said:


> Not having the edges fully wrapped is a huge plus generally speaking.


In what way? The only advantage I can think of is a reduced swing weight.


----------



## freshy

hardasacatshead said:


> In what way? The only advantage I can think of is a reduced swing weight.


Easier to repair. If your hitting a tree hard enough to delam your board your sure a hell going to be denting your wrap around edge.


----------



## wrathfuldeity

idk...but really who does anything with their edges in the nose and tail...absolutely nothing I can think of....hell some manufactures even blunt them. I don't know anyone that sharpens, bevels or does shit to the edges beyond the contact points. So maybe they are knocking off $300 off the price if they had wrap around edges:huh:


----------



## Triple8Sol

When I was younger I dreamed of owning a Lib/Gnu until I finally got my first one, a Lib Tech Tear Yea...anyone actually remember that one? Have had countless Mervin decks in the many years since, and always try to keep at least 1 in the quiver each year. This year it was the Gnu Space Case, last couple year's was the Rider's Choice C2PBTX, prior to that it was the TRS, RC, T.Rice, Lynn/Lando Phoenix, etc...


----------



## tonicusa

wrathfuldeity said:


> Friggin bring back/start doing again... a fully cambered magnetraction[/COLOR][/SIZE]


This years C3 Darker is "just about" full camber. I ride it interchangeably with all my cambered sticks. But it isn't FULL camber. I've got an Amplid High Def that you could roll a golf ball under.


----------



## F1EA

freshy said:


> Easier to repair. If your hitting a tree hard enough to delam your board your sure a hell going to be denting your wrap around edge.


Hmmm that's hardly a benefit. You hit something with your steel edge and you can probably escape serious damage.


----------



## freshy

F1EA said:


> Hmmm that's hardly a benefit. You hit something with your steel edge and you can probably escape serious damage.


I've hit stuff with no wrap around and escaped serious damage as well.


----------



## Ocho

freshy said:


> Easier to repair. If your hitting a tree hard enough to delam your board your sure a hell going to be denting your wrap around edge.





SGboarder said:


> Actually, I think it is. I have seen fully wrapped edges torn out halfway down the side of the board because of a nose impact. With a Mervin board you would only have to fix the sacrificial nose.


This is how I've always understood the non-wrap benefit to be: easier to repair. Never heard about swing weight benefit, but I'd think it's negligible.

Was chatting with a friend at the shop one day while he was (again) repairing the nose on a gnu women's board (apparently the chick had a penchant for ramming the nose into shit :laugh. As the epoxy was drying he commented on how much easier it is to repair such damage when NO metal edge is there. 



F1EA said:


> Hmmm that's hardly a benefit. You hit something with your steel edge and you can probably escape serious damage.


It's a _thin_ metal edge, regardless of metal type. Plus the perforated toothy-ness of the more buried inside edge is sure to inflict a lot more damage to the board's innards upon significant impact, I'd think. 

It's not like the edge wrap on the nose and tail on a snowboard is like a bull bar for a truck...


----------



## Nivek

Yes its easier to fix. It's easier to damage. 

If there was a significant real world advantage to a non full wrapped edge dont you think more than 1 factory would do it? It is faster, easier, and cheaper to manufacture. Thats why they do it.


----------



## F1EA

To be honest, it doesnt matter much. I don't think the edge is something that makes people buy mervin or not. It's definitely easier to fix, but i still don't see how a board with the edge gets damaged easier; let's say maybe it is. I guess it depnds on the type of impact... you can catch a board in a special way and it does a lot of damage. 

Build quality is also not something that goes "against" Mervin. Their boards are good.


----------



## Ravaging Rami

I have used a solid camber board in the past (K2) and just switched to this years T.Rice pro HP. I really like having freedom in between my feet for better presses and ollies. The camber under the feet along with the sidecut, grabs the snow. With the Magnetraction, sidecut, and strategically placed camber, there is no slippage at all. I will never go back to a solid camber board. Is the eco-friendly stuff the main reason I bought it? No. Is mange-traction? Yes. Not everyone lives where there is perfect, ice-free, snow on their local hill/mountain. I really think that it all comes down to personal preference though. I don't mean to start a flame war, but it's like the FLOW bindings vs. Two Straps. You like one or the other.


----------



## scotty100

^(To F1EA)It kinda does matter when you are shelling out 700 bucks though. Everybody can rationalize away why it's no big deal performance / durability wise but if you're paying through the nose for one of their boards then it's BS.


----------



## Ravaging Rami

scotty100 said:


> ^(To F1EA)It kinda does matter when you are shelling out 700 bucks though. Everybody can rationalize away why it's no big deal performance / durability wise but if you're paying through the nose for one of their boards then it's BS.


You're paying for the materials/construction. Would you rather have something handmade in the U.S.? Or a machine-stamped out of country board that doesn't last as long? Remember, it takes less than a day to make a Toyota and more than 6 months to make a Rolls-Royce.


----------



## freshy

Nivek said:


> Yes its easier to fix. It's easier to damage.
> 
> If there was a significant real world advantage to a non full wrapped edge dont you think more than 1 factory would do it? It is faster, easier, and cheaper to manufacture. Thats why they do it.


If it ain't broke don't fix it. Mervin is a company that innovates, not copies other ideas. If you have problems ramming your nose into trees and rocks you should learn how to ride.


----------



## booron

tonicusa said:


> I've got an Amplid High Def that you could roll a golf ball under.


OMG! Never heard of these before, but their website is hilarious and I want one, think I'll go with the Paradigma though...


----------



## F1EA

scotty100 said:


> ^(To F1EA)It kinda does matter when you are shelling out 700 bucks though. Everybody can rationalize away why it's no big deal performance / durability wise but if you're paying through the nose for one of their boards then it's BS.


Not sure you understood what i said...
I said the full wrap edge is not likely to be the deciding factor in buying Mervin or not. Most people buy for their quality (which they have), because they like their profiles, want an american product, etc etc. lots of reasons...

If you or anyone tells me seriously they'd pay $700 for a board just because it has no edge on the nose/tail... I'd say: :dizzy:


----------



## freshy

To answer the OP's question. I think people are against it because they have become such a big name in snowboarding. Simple as that.
What people fail to understand is HOW they got into that position in the first place. They have been making boards since the sports infancy and they have also been trying out new designs and innovations the whole time. Sure some of their tech like the banana or magnetraction is not for everyone but it was enough of a game changer that a large chunk of the industry started reviewing their sidecut shapes and camber profiles, and even board shapes. 
I could go on and on but the bottom line is I've never really had a reason to not buy Lib.


----------



## hardasacatshead

SGboarder said:


> That is what I meant. Together with the sacrificial tips it means that most hard bonks only result in cosmetic damage.
> 
> Also, THB I have never noticed a difference in swing weight because of different tip shapes, no edge, etc. I think it is mostly marketing.


Fair enough. I can't imagine the difference in swing weight would make a lick of difference either, just couldn't really think of any other benefit. 

I'm not sold on the idea of being easier to fix making it a benefit though. That's like saying that you're better off not having a bullbar (brush bar, scrub bar, whatever you northern hemispherites call them) in outback Australia because if you hit a roo it'd be easier to panel beat the smashed up bonnet without taking the bullbar off. Meanwhile, here's me with my bull bar wielding, perfectly unharmed four wheel drive after hitting at least 30 roos...

Prevention's better than the cure. I think it's probably just an easier, quicker and cheaper manufacturing process and that's why they stick to it. Mervin have a loyal following, great marketing and the benefits of changing that part of their process probably doesn't outweigh the cost/effort.


----------



## sb60

The Never Summer Infinity used to be my favorite board and now I ride Roxy. I just found the Roxy (made by Mervin) to have nice torsional flex. It's easy to lift the front in powder. I have an Envi and an Eminence. Both the same rocker camber (C2) as NS and mellow magna traction. Haven't had trouble with the edge not being all around, but I do try fix it when something horrible happens, like rock related. 

Demo-ing boards is the best if you can. And it depends what you're used to. When I tried the NS after riding a Burton board, it was a big difference. Over the years I've let a lot of women try my Infinity and they've all bought it.


----------



## tanscrazydaisy

haters are gonna hate.

Just like Burton, some people just hate burton, in part to due them getting too big of a company, as well as some of their business practices, etc.


----------



## Ocho

While I ride a GNU (B Pro), Mervin doesn't pay me for promoting their product thus I'm coming at this from an unbiased perspective here. I'm also not a MeToo person, not looking for validation of my purchase/s, nor do I care what others ride.

Considering that...



Nivek said:


> Yes its easier to fix. It's easier to damage.
> 
> If there was a significant real world advantage to a non full wrapped edge dont you think more than 1 factory would do it? *It is faster, easier, and cheaper to manufacture.* Thats why they do it.


Isn't this a significant, real world advantage? Seems like keeping costs down and using less resources (metal) could only be a benefit all around? Can't help but wonder why other companies aren't also doing it. Unless there's another reason?



hardasacatshead said:


> That's like saying that you're better off not having a bullbar (brush bar, scrub bar, whatever you northern hemispherites call them) in outback Australia because if you hit a roo it'd be easier to panel beat the smashed up bonnet without taking the bullbar off. Meanwhile, here's me with my bull bar wielding, perfectly unharmed four wheel drive after hitting at least 30 roos...


Guess you missed my analogy posted earlier (below) on this? 

Also, don't hit kangaroos 



EatRideSleep said:


> It's a _thin_ metal edge, regardless of metal type. Plus the perforated toothy-ness of the more buried inside edge is sure to inflict a lot more damage to the board's innards upon significant impact, I'd think.
> 
> *It's not like the edge wrap on the nose and tail on a snowboard is like a bull bar for a truck...*





SGboarder said:


> That analogy does not work for me. Your bullbar adds a lot more strength over the hood/bonnet than the steel edge over a plastic tip (relatively speaking).
> And more importantly, if the bullbar fails/gets crushed it is not liable to rip the axles of your ute, unlike a fully wrapped edge that can zipper down the length of the board.


^Basically this.


----------



## poutanen

For what it's worth, my Virus doesn't have fully wrapped edges. I don't see it as an issue at all. A little steel in the nose certainly isn't going to save the nose from damage!



Ravaging Rami said:


> You're paying for the materials/construction. Would you rather have something handmade in the U.S.? Or a machine-stamped out of country board that doesn't last as long? Remember, it takes less than a day to make a Toyota and more than 6 months to make a Rolls-Royce.


You saying that a Rolls is better built/more reliable than a Toyota?

Handmade in the US doesn't guarantee better quality products! We have this *buy local* hard-on since 2008. Screw that, *buy efficient*. If the Chinese can make similar quality boards, more efficiently, and do it cheaper, why not buy from them?!?

That said, if you can get something local that's similar/better quality, and similar/better efficiency (in how it's produced), then absolutely buy local to save on shipping losses. I guess you could call that overall product efficiency (production efficiency + shipping efficiency).

:dizzy:


----------



## hardasacatshead

EatRideSleep said:


> Also, don't hit kangaroos


You should, those cheeky bastards deserve it with their out of proportion arms and shifty eyes and stuff. 

In all honesty, I don't really give a shit. I ride a Neversummer now because my proto suits my style of riding and I have a ball on it every time, my next board will be more powder oriented and will likely be an arbor. Why? Because they look fucking cool and will outperform me any day of the week.


----------



## d2cycles

I personally don't have strong feelings one way or another about steel in the tips and tails. I do wish Mervin would use more or stronger epoxy in the tips and tails to help prevent damage. I now have (3) Mervin boards in the house and all of them have more tip and tail damage than the other boards with similar use. 

Except for the K2...that top sheet is about as durable as butter


----------



## Nivek

SGboarder said:


> That analogy does not work for me. Your bullbar adds a lot more strength over the hood/bonnet than the steel edge over a plastic tip (relatively speaking).
> And more importantly, if the bullbar fails/gets crushed it is not liable to rip the axles of your ute, unlike a fully wrapped edge that can zipper down the length of the board.


If you hit something hard enough to split the edge in half and then have it zipper down your deck, you will blow up any construction style. This is what the non wrap enthusiasts dont understand, any damage that is easier to fix would likely not even be damage if you had a wrapped edge. And any damage you assume would have been easier to fix without the edge would likely have cometely blown up the tip without the edge.



Ravaging Rami said:


> You're paying for the materials/construction. Would you rather have something handmade in the U.S.? Or a machine-stamped out of country board that doesn't last as long? Remember, it takes less than a day to make a Toyota and more than 6 months to make a Rolls-Royce.


Really? Cause I will probably drive my Nissan to 300k miles with little to know work outside of general maintance. How long do you think that fancy hand built Rolls is gonna last without a major electrical issue?

Your argument is invalid. Machined manufacturing is more accurate and has greater repeatability. I.E. better.


----------



## Nivek

EatRideSleep said:


> Isn't this a significant, real world advantage? Seems like keeping costs down and using less resources (metal) could only be a benefit all around? Can't help but wonder why other companies aren't also doing it. Unless there's another reason?
> .


Please show me where the end consumer sees the benefit. Cause if it is significantly cheaper then they're just making that much more money on you. Hows that taste?


----------



## poutanen

d2cycles said:


> I personally don't have strong feelings one way or another about steel in the tips and tails. I do wish Mervin would use more or stronger epoxy in the tips and tails to help prevent damage. I now have (3) Mervin boards in the house and all of them have more tip and tail damage than the other boards with similar use.


Stop running into things! :yahoo:


----------



## d2cycles

poutanen said:


> Stop running into things! :yahoo:


Or this...dammit...why can't I come up with these outstanding ideas! :laugh:


----------



## F1EA

d2cycles said:


> I personally don't have strong feelings one way or another about steel in the tips and tails. * I do wish Mervin would use more or stronger epoxy in the tips and tails to help prevent damage. I now have (3) Mervin boards in the house and all of them have more tip and tail damage than the other boards with similar use.*


The prosecution rests.


----------



## Ocho

Nivek said:


> Please show me where the end consumer sees the benefit. Cause if it is significantly cheaper then they're just making that much more money on you. Hows that taste?


Well, if it's a cost savings to the company in production costs, etc, in theory, their boards would likely be even more expensive to the consumer? Honestly I don't have an issue with Mervin (or any company for that matter) making more money/profit from the consumer. It's free enterprise/capitalism/free market/whatever. They are free to do as they choose with regard to pricing and profit; just as the consumer is free to choose to spend their dollars wherever they'd like.

Ha, it probably tastes like an iPhone.


----------



## scotty100

To me this whole debate is not about origin of manufacture. You can have quality manufacturing in any country if the right process and quality technology is in place and there is no doubt that this means good boards can and do come from China.

Good boards can and do come from the US also. And if given the choice and all things being equal on quality then I'll buy local and support the local economy.

I won't shell out 700 bucks on a heavy plank with no edge wrap though, wherever it's made. It's a risk to durability so where's the justification in that?


----------



## ryannorthcott

people (prople?) will spend their dollars on any given product to the amount they perceive it's value..
mervin boards tend to have higher perceived value due to the way they are marketed. i do not believe that their costs of production are significantly higher or lower than other brands like burton, k2, never summer etc., nor do i believe that their quality is significantly higher or lower when you compare similar models with similar tech.
mervin has done extremely well in positioning their products as elite-level, that is to say true snowboarders respect what the brand stands for and recognize the benefits of the technology (or that is what they want the average consumer to think). after all they do make the only board with the distinct name of 'riders choice'.
you could analyze any board brand and determine it's competitive advantages/disadvantages in terms of technology, construction etc., but when it comes down to the brand itself, consumers are going to immediately draw associations with the brand in general, and if they have no experience with the brand they will base those associations primarily on what others have said about the brand, or what they know about the people that use the brand. in my experience i have found that people without direct experience with mervin boards tend to draw associations like this brand is too good for me, too expensive, too hard core if they don't subscribe to the 'elite level rider' niche. on the other hand i have found that those i know who consider themselves a part of that niche do not feel like mervin boards really are that much better or worse than the brand of board they use and choose to purchase, as in they have found what works for them and are loyal to a brand that provides great perceived value whether it be mervin, burton, k2, rome etc.

tl;dr version: marketing strategy and positioning dictates consumer value and therefore pricing much more than costs of production, technological advantages etc.

just my two cents answering the OPs question from a marketing perspective.


----------



## Lstarrasl

jtg said:


> No we don't and corporate loyalty is silly


Well, it's not my fault if you have bad taste. You probably root for the 9ers too. Oh wait that would be corporate loyalty.


----------



## Lstarrasl

thatkidwho said:


> Not everyone from Seattle rides lib or gnu. Mid 90s we would hit the Ride warehouse in redmond for stickers and blems. Sims was up in Bothell, Columbia was around the corner. Back to redmond for dumpster diving at Nintendo. I gotta say Seattle in the 90 was something. Now its just MS and Starbucks every where.



I never found anything good in the Nintendo dumpsters except a huge cardboard tube that we road down the ramp and got dizzy in. 

Did you live on the Eastside?


----------



## snowman55

Lstarrasl said:


> I never found anything good in the Nintendo dumpsters except a huge cardboard tube that we road down the ramp and got dizzy in.
> 
> Did you live on the Eastside?


----------



## thatkidwho

Grew up a block from grasslawn park. After school we would bike up to the 7 eleven and check Nintendos dumpsters for mislabeled video games. Hunt rabbits by along 520. Sneek into the tree house with the mote.


----------



## Lstarrasl

thatkidwho said:


> Grew up a block from grasslawn park. After school we would bike up to the 7 eleven and check Nintendos dumpsters for mislabeled video games. Hunt rabbits by along 520. Sneek into the tree house with the mote.


This just got weird...I lived at that house with the Tree House.


----------



## Bones

Ravaging Rami said:


> You're paying for the materials/construction. Would you rather have something handmade in the U.S.? Or a machine-stamped out of country board that doesn't last as long?


Assuming that handmade is that much better than machine made. And it wasn't built on a Monday or a Friday...by a worker with minimal training and a hangover

But local built should be cheaper since the shipping costs of the finished product are cheaper.


----------



## ThredJack

I have no problem with Mervin boards, never had one. The price does seem a bit steep to me though. Seems like I can get a Rome, Ride, K2, Burton, etc. with similar tech/performance for 1/2 the price.


----------



## freshy

ThredJack said:


> I have no problem with Mervin boards, never had one. The price does seem a bit steep to me though. Seems like I can get a Rome, Ride, K2, Burton, etc. with similar tech/performance for 1/2 the price.


I'm curious where you get Burton boards for half the price of a Lib.


----------



## SnowDragon

freshy said:


> I'm curious where you get Burton boards for half the price of a Lib.


I had the same thought.
I agree that Mervin boards tend to be on the expensive side, but not double that of other brands.


----------



## poutanen

freshy said:


> I'm curious where you get Burton boards for half the price of a Lib.


Current sale at Corbetts: Snowboard - Snowboards - Mens - Corbetts

Other than the Mystery and Landlord Split, all Burton boards are on for 40% or so off right now. The Libs are full price... :dunno:


----------



## SnowDragon

poutanen said:


> Current sale at Corbetts: Snowboard - Snowboards - Mens - Corbetts
> 
> Other than the Mystery and Landlord Split, all Burton boards are on for 40% or so off right now. The Libs are full price... :dunno:


Timing issue.
I find that Libs tend to go on sale later than many other brands, likely due to supply/demand issues.
Corbetts sells Libs at 40% off also. I bought one from them a couple of years ago.

Apples to apples - Libs are not double the price of Burton and most other brands.


----------



## jtg

They do have the distinction of being the only company that sells $700 boards with extruded bases. :thumbsdown:


----------



## 16gkid

GreyDragon said:


> Apples to apples - Libs are not double the price of Burton and most other brands.


Maybe not double but still more expensive, I was looking at some gnu boards(CC,riders choice)ended up with a Rossi board for 200 dollars less, but with just as much technology, and metal edges all around


----------



## SnowDragon

16gkid said:


> Maybe not double but still more expensive, I was looking at some gnu boards(CC,riders choice)ended up with a Rossi board for 200 dollars less, but with just as much technology, and metal edges all around


I acknowledged that they are generally more expensive than many other brands. The claim was that their prices were double.

Note that Rossignol boards are probably at the opposite end of the scale - generally less expensive than most brands, and probably the best value boards out there from a major manufacturer.
If they used CRC profiles instead of RCR profiles and offered some true twins, I would own a few for sure. :thumbsup:


----------



## ThredJack

Perhaps I should learn the art of proper wording....

I didn't mean LITERALLY 2x as expensive.


----------



## NZRide

Just brought wife a Lib TRS and its cool board but holy crap is the top sheet brittle. The back of her board has been nailed bad in the two week holiday, mostly asshole skiers with no concept of personal space. Why the fuck do they need to push their shitty ski tips over the back of the board in the lift queue?
I think I'll start anew thread on that.
The back of her board has many large chips across the back edges of the top sheet, one currently, still hanging on, but went to pull it off but its still affixed with quite a few fibres from what looks like a fibreglass type weave layer. We have owned many boards over the years from many different manufacturers including K2, Burton, Nitro, Morrow, and now I have an NS (which I brought at the same time as her TRS and the carbonium top sheet doesn't have a chip or scratch anywhere) none of the boards have been cut up like the Lib in there whole lifespan of many seasons each, let alone in 2 wks!
I think they make cool boards but for the price they do need to do something about the finish of their top sheets, as its not just visual, it ends up ripping into the structural layers of the board.
I think they should do full metal wrap edges too, not that its caused the above issues but can see there will be more damage to the board to come that tip edges may help.


----------



## F1EA

I kinda feel sorry this thread make it seem like some people actually are "against" Mervin. 

But not really... not that at all (at least in my case). No hate, it's just that some people prefer something else. Especially at Mervin's prices...

I'd ride a Mervin if it was free


----------



## 24WERD

mervin = devil satan

just look at the logo.

I like mervin. 

It was my 1st board.


----------



## Lstarrasl

thatkidwho said:


> Grew up a block from grasslawn park. After school we would bike up to the 7 eleven and check Nintendos dumpsters for mislabeled video games. Hunt rabbits by along 520. Sneek into the tree house with the mote.


Here is said Tree house


----------



## ThredJack

I have to say, I am intrigued by the Lib Tech board builder option....


----------



## freshy

poutanen said:


> Current sale at Corbetts: Snowboard - Snowboards - Mens - Corbetts
> 
> Other than the Mystery and Landlord Split, all Burton boards are on for 40% or so off right now. The Libs are full price... :dunno:


Well... Libs at full price would lead me to believe that they usually sell out of the current boards and don't need a sale to unload them. Thats not to say I have never seen them on sale but stuff like the Hotknife or Dark(er) series or even GNU billy goats tend to sell out of any usable lengths if not completely.
Must be 100% marketing hype because it's unlikely a company with 30+ years making boards have any idea how to make a good quality deck.


----------



## ek9max

hardasacatshead said:


> I'm not completely against them at all, in fact I really like the TRS, Billy Goat, Hot Knife and Rider's Choice but I have a couple of issues with them.
> 
> 1. No full wrap edge. I see so many Mervin boards in the lift lines with fucked up noses and tails - much more so than any other breed. I belt my board into submerged trees/rocks all the time and I'm certain the edge has saved my board on a number of occasions.
> 
> 2. Shitty bases. I don't like the fact that on a US$700 board like the TRS HP there's a shitty extruded base on the fucking thing. Seriously, that's an expensive board with great tech and they throw garbage on the bottom. I've ridden the TRS HP and it's quick enough for sure, but my mate who owns it reckons wax doesn't last and it just doesn't feel as resilient as his boards with sintered bases.
> 
> So I'm not against Mervin, but I think there are better quality boards out there for much less coin.
> 
> /end rant.



Tell that to my friends that ride burton,yes, capita. They are much better riders than me. But I fly past them on EVERY flat with my shitty TNT extruded base.

And we all use the same wax and wax every time before going out.


----------



## freshy

Lstarrasl said:


> Here is said Tree house


Holy balls thats a sick house!


----------



## freshy

ek9max said:


> Tell that to my friends that ride burton,yes, capita. They are much better riders than me. But I fly past them on EVERY flat with my shitty TNT extruded base.
> 
> And we all use the same wax and wax every time before going out.


I know what you mean, my main riding buddy has a 170 Arbor something or other with fresh wax and I fly by him on my 161 with a 3 day old wax job on the flats too. One time on a different Lib I passed a guy on a long traverse and as I went buy he yelled how can you go that fast? I replied it's a Lib! I could hear his voice get farther as he was yelling fuck Libtech. I laughed out loud.
So yeah just because everyone else makes a shitty extruded base don't mean they are all equal. Besides don't park and urban riders prefer an extruded because they can handle more punishment?


----------



## poutanen

ThredJack said:


> I have to say, I am intrigued by the Lib Tech board builder option....


Meh, all the custom boards have some sort of rocker underfoot, and they're pricey.

Prior Snowboards are all custom built too, for $699. Of course Priors all have camber underfoot with some sort of nose rocker, so if CRC is your thing, then Lib Tech custom is the way to go I guess?!?

I like Prior because they have some great options. MFR for big line bombing, Khyber for playing in the powder, etc.


----------



## jtg

Haha. What makes more sense: 

The extruded TNT base is some sort of magic that the entire racing industry doesn't know about, and instead of cashing in on this discovery and marketing it like they do everything else, Mervin just quietly puts it on a few of their boards (but not on their best boards, inexplicably).

Or

It isn't faster.

:dunno:

I have a TRS with a TNT base, and several other boards with sintered bases, and of course I haven't actually measured, but it's pretty obvious that those are the low end bases in Mervin's lineup.



freshy said:


> Besides don't park and urban riders prefer an extruded because they can handle more punishment?


No, sintered is stronger, but harder to repair. A lot of people get that mixed up though.



ek9max said:


> And we all use the same wax and wax every time before going out.


Which wax? If you're using a fluorinated wax and doing your board every time you go out, you're not just wasting money, but hurting the environment unnecessarily. Yeah we all use them, including myself, but there's really no need to go to such excess with it. I know you're from Alberta, but...


----------



## ek9max

jtg said:


> Haha. What makes more sense:
> 
> The extruded TNT base is some sort of magic that the entire racing industry doesn't know about, and instead of cashing in on this discovery and marketing it like they do everything else, Mervin just quietly puts it on a few of their boards (but not on their best boards, inexplicably).
> 
> Or
> 
> It isn't faster.
> 
> :dunno:
> 
> I have a TRS with a TNT base, and several other boards with sintered bases, and of course I haven't actually measured, but it's pretty obvious that those are the low end bases in Mervin's lineup.
> 
> 
> 
> No, sintered is stronger, but harder to repair. A lot of people get that mixed up though.


I'm not sure about that....

I can't comment on durability but my 2014 trs glides as good if not better than my 14' hot knife, 14' trice, 14 gnu impossible. All which had sinterred bases.


----------



## freshy

jtg said:


> Haha. What makes more sense:
> 
> The extruded TNT base is some sort of magic that the entire racing industry doesn't know about, and instead of cashing in on this discovery and marketing it like they do everything else, Mervin just quietly puts it on a few of their boards (but not on their best boards, inexplicably).
> 
> Or
> 
> It isn't faster.
> 
> :dunno:
> 
> I have a TRS with a TNT base, and several other boards with sintered bases, and of course I haven't actually measured, but it's pretty obvious that those are the low end bases in Mervin's lineup.
> 
> 
> 
> No, sintered is stronger, but harder to repair. A lot of people get that mixed up though.


This might help you out a little, you seem confused Snowboard Bases: Extruded Vs. Sintered

Yes extruded is cheaper to make and considered low end, but Lib still makes the best extruded base. Some customers actually want choice and might prefer a extruded base because it's less maintenance, more durable and EASIER TO REPAIR. You should have done some research if your not to stoked on your extruded TRS. But since you haven't even measured the speed difference between your boards your point is moot.

By the way Libs secret racing base would be the Sintered Carbon 9991 Base Material. Who would be dumb enough to think an extruded base could win a race lol...oh wait...


----------



## Nivek

freshy said:


> Well... Libs at full price would lead me to believe that they usually sell out of the current boards and don't need a sale to unload them. Thats not to say I have never seen them on sale but stuff like the Hotknife or Dark(er) series or even GNU billy goats tend to sell out of any usable lengths if not completely.
> Must be 100% marketing hype because it's unlikely a company with 30+ years making boards have any idea how to make a good quality deck.


It's not all marketing that they sell out, it is all marketing that they can sell out at full price. They've reached that sweet spot where they have enough brand recognition that a high price isn't scoffed at and they picked just the right prices do convey, falsely or not, a "superior quality" without coming across as overpriced. 

And they're not the only brand that's been around. K2, Burton, Salomon is on 25 years... Also find me a brand as established as Mervin that still makes a board the same from 2008.


----------



## freshy

Nivek said:


> It's not all marketing that they sell out, it is all marketing that they can sell out at full price. They've reached that sweet spot where they have enough brand recognition that a high price isn't scoffed at and they picked just the right prices do convey, falsely or not, a "superior quality" without coming across as overpriced.
> 
> And they're not the only brand that's been around. K2, Burton, Salomon is on 25 years... Also find me a brand as established as Mervin that still makes a board the same from 2008.


Actually I thought C3 was a little newer than that? like 2013 or something :dunno:
NS usually sells out too, maybe because they are hand made?
If it ain't broke don't fix it. You gonna bash Apple for making the same phone for ages too?
Not all their prices are all that bad IMO more than a few are around $500, which is about what the K2's retail for not on sale. If you want the best you got to pay for it. If you look at Burton you will know they charge even more for their high end boards than Lib with the exception of the Cygnus of course.


----------



## SnowDragon

ek9max said:


> I'm not sure about that....
> 
> I can't comment on durability but my 2014 trs glides as good if not better than my 14' hot knife, 14' trice, 14 gnu impossible. All which had sinterred bases.


You bought 4 Mervin boards in 1 year???

Why??:dunno:


----------



## rambob

TNT Bases cant really be classifed as real extruded bases; the're kind of a hybrid thing. IMO most people cant tell the difference between a Lib sintered and tnt till you tell them and then they get all tech on you. I'm saying this and I'm not a big fan of Libs anymore: used to be. Not because of price but because of their banana tech: dont like C2 stuff. I like camber. Might try a C3


----------



## hardasacatshead

GreyDragon said:


> You bought 4 Mervin boards in 1 year???
> 
> Why??:dunno:


More dollars than sense methinks. 

Gees there's some passion in this thread! I don't think anybody here has actually said they hate Mervin boards - the Mervin love children appear to have read it that way though.


----------



## ek9max

GreyDragon said:


> You bought 4 Mervin boards in 1 year???
> 
> Why??:dunno:


I just started riding at the end of last season. Wanted to see what worked best for me. Been out 48 times this season so far


----------



## ekb18c

Who doesn't always want new boards?


----------



## poutanen

ek9max said:


> I just started riding at the end of last season. Wanted to see what worked best for me. Been out 48 times this season so far


And people pick on me for riding a $1300 board?!? I've got about 50 days on it so far... plan to keep riding it as long as it lasts.


----------



## ek9max

ekb18c said:


> Who doesn't always want new boards?


I agree!

I actually bought the TRS twice this year. Haha


----------



## ek9max

poutanen said:


> And people pick on me for riding a $1300 board?!? I've got about 50 days on it so far... plan to keep riding it as long as it lasts.


Burton mystery?

I'm pretty settled on just riding the TRS. Tried out a few boards and settled on this one.


----------



## poutanen

ek9max said:


> Burton mystery?


Virus Avalanche FLP AFT (it's the one on the right)










I've bought 4 boards since the Virus, and keep going back to her for EVERYTHING. So far the only thing that's come close was a Prior Khyber 165, but the Virus is much easier to ride fast through the trees.

I have no problem with boards being expensive, as long as you're getting your moneys worth. The Virus has quadraxial fibreglass, carbon fibre layers (not just stringers), kevlar layers, a race quality base, race quality edges. That said, for $700 the Prior is a good value, and for another $150 they'll throw in some carbon & kevlar layers.


----------



## SnowDragon

ek9max said:


> Burton mystery?
> 
> I'm pretty settled on just riding the TRS. Tried out a few boards and settled on this one.


Good choice!
And the 2014 with the XC2 is better than the older C2 imo.

(Gotta love those Mervin camber codes!!:laugh


----------



## ek9max

GreyDragon said:


> Good choice!
> And the 2014 with the XC2 is better than the older C2 imo.
> 
> (Gotta love those Mervin camber codes!!:laugh


I agree. I bought one in December. Sold it because I thought is like a TRICE better. Got a hot knife. Then bought a trs again. Love it.


----------



## jtg

freshy said:


> This might help you out a little, you seem confused Snowboard Bases: Extruded Vs. Sintered
> 
> Yes extruded is cheaper to make and considered low end, but Lib still makes the best extruded base. Some customers actually want choice and might prefer a extruded base because it's less maintenance, more durable and EASIER TO REPAIR. You should have done some research if your not to stoked on your extruded TRS. But since you haven't even measured the speed difference between your boards your point is moot.
> 
> By the way Libs secret racing base would be the Sintered Carbon 9991 Base Material. Who would be dumb enough to think an extruded base could win a race lol...oh wait...


Incorrect, no confusion here. You might want to read my post again, I think it went over your head. You restated what I already said, with one error - extruded bases are *not* more durable. 

And the point about measuring is not moot - nobody here has actually measured the speed difference, I can guarantee you that. "I always go flying past my friends" is not a measurement. I was demonstrating how you can use a little bit of logic to see that lib's extruded bases are not magically faster than sintered bases.



rambob said:


> TNT Bases cant really be classifed as real extruded bases; the're kind of a hybrid thing.


In no way is it a hybrid. The concept of hybrid extrusion and sintering doesn't really make sense. They're fundamentally different processes. It is 100% extruded, plain and simple. In fact, Mervin doesn't even make it. All bases are made from a plastics manufacturer, and they have a catalog of additives you can choose from. Mervin chose theirs and branded it "TNT". They aren't the only ones or the first ones to do this. Their marketing just wants you to think it is magic fairy dust.


----------



## Nivek

freshy said:


> Actually I thought C3 was a little newer than that? like 2013 or something :dunno:.


Did I say all their boards are from 2008? Nope. The Skate Banana is though.



freshy said:


> If it ain't broke don't fix it.


That's how we get stagnant. 



freshy said:


> You gonna bash Apple for making the same phone for ages too?


Uh, yeah. The iPhone is a piece of shit.



freshy said:


> Not all their prices are all that bad IMO more than a few are around $500, which is about what the K2's retail for not on sale. If you want the best you got to pay for it. If you look at Burton you will know they charge even more for their high end boards than Lib with the exception of the Cygnus of course.


TRS $559. Happy Hour $479. Box Scratcher $459. Weapon $399. Birdman $696. Landlord $569. T.Rice $559. Custom Twin $549 (more expensive materials). Hot Knife $519. Process camber $419. Pickle $489. Parkitect and Name Dropper $449. Darker $666. Custom X $649.

What numbers are you looking at?


----------



## Redline

You all can nit pick all you want, but my TRS which I paid full price for fucking rips. That is all that matters to me. I also agree that the TNT base is much faster than any other extruded base I have ever ridden.


----------



## ThredJack

Am I the only one who thinks Lib Tech made the Darker series $666 on purpose?...


----------



## glaucon

ThredJack said:


> Am I the only one who thinks Lib Tech made the Darker series $666 on purpose?...


Yes you are. I've done the math, taking into account the materials, labor, pro rata portion of marketing expenses, and customary profit margin in the industry and arrived at exactly $665.89. To the extent the actual price is different from this scientific calculation (i.e., the 11 cent difference), sure, let's call that deliberate manipulation to get to $666 for the coolness factor. Apart from that, it's a pure coincidence.


----------



## SnowDogWax

glaucon said:


> Yes you are. I've done the math, taking into account the materials, labor, pro rata portion of marketing expenses, and customary profit margin in the industry and arrived at exactly $665.89. To the extent the actual price is different from this scientific calculation (i.e., the 11 cent difference), sure, let's call that deliberate manipulation to get to $666 for the coolness factor. Apart from that, it's a pure coincidence.



+100
:rock::bestpost:


----------



## freshy

Nivek said:


> Did I say all their boards are from 2008? Nope. The Skate Banana is though.
> 
> 
> 
> That's how we get stagnant.
> 
> 
> 
> Uh, yeah. The iPhone is a piece of shit.
> 
> 
> 
> TRS $559. Happy Hour $479. Box Scratcher $459. Weapon $399. Birdman $696. Landlord $569. T.Rice $559. Custom Twin $549 (more expensive materials). Hot Knife $519. Process camber $419. Pickle $489. Parkitect and Name Dropper $449. Darker $666. Custom X $649.
> 
> What numbers are you looking at?


How was I supposed to know you meant the Skate Banana? If I cared enough to research I'm sure I could find at least one thats unchanged in 5 years made by those companies you mentioned. Why do you think it's a bad thing to keep a model unchanged? If I could re-buy my 2001 Emma P I would in a heart beat. 

Not sure what your trying to prove by comparing those board prices except K2 makes cheaper boards and Burton is closer to Libs prices. Why don't you throw Never Summer boards in there too because it will just prove top tier boards are somewhat similar in price.


----------



## tonicusa

ThredJack said:


> Am I the only one who thinks Lib Tech made the Darker series $666 on purpose?...


Yes of course they did. I had a chance to buy one with a discount and I refused to. I paid the full $666. And overnight my riding became possessed with the Beast. I was stomping 3s and 5s off of massive sketchy booters, blasting out of the pipe like a madman on meth and collecting shred betties like bugs on a windshield. There's no turning back for me. Don't buy this board. Seriously.


----------



## SnowDogWax

Just bought 164W Darker Series at a great discount,


----------



## tonicusa

You've angered the Beast SnowDog....


----------



## F1EA

Yep you're in trouble. Unless said discount was an even multiple of 6.


----------



## SnowDogWax

Was $399.99 ccasion14:


----------



## DasStugIII

i love my 14 pickle, the nose and tail are still perfect after a season, i dont run into stuff. I paid 350$ for it, worth every single cent, if you pay full price for boards, your in the minority, msrp means little to me. L2Google


----------



## SnowDogWax

I Love my
RipSaw, SkunkApeHP, Krypto, XV, OneMagTech, Superpark, soon ?? Darker Series board. Bought all less than msrp. Have some other boards that I like not worth listing….


----------



## SnowDragon

tonicusa said:


> Yes of course they did. I had a chance to buy one with a discount and I refused to. I paid the full $666. And overnight my riding became possessed with the Beast. I was stomping 3s and 5s off of massive sketchy booters, blasting out of the pipe like a madman on meth and collecting shred betties like bugs on a windshield. There's no turning back for me. Don't buy this board. Seriously.


But, the Beast is a GNU board.


----------



## Nivek

freshy said:


> How was I supposed to know you meant the Skate Banana? If I cared enough to research I'm sure I could find at least one thats unchanged in 5 years made by those companies you mentioned. Why do you think it's a bad thing to keep a model unchanged? If I could re-buy my 2001 Emma P I would in a heart beat.





Nivek said:


> Also find me *a* brand as established as Mervin that still makes a board the same from 2008.


I guess my verbiage could have been a little more clear. And I'm not saying you wouldn't buy that Emma again, but I am curious, when was the last time you rode one? Golden Eye remains in my head an amazing game. The last time I played it, about 6 months ago, it was nearly unplayable by todays FPS standards. I was impressed with my past self that I could actually play that game with skill and accuracy.



freshy said:


> Not sure what your trying to prove by comparing those board prices except K2 makes cheaper boards and Burton is closer to Libs prices. Why don't you throw Never Summer boards in there too because it will just prove top tier boards are somewhat similar in price.


I was comparing similar boards in the line. As in the Happy Hour, with a sintered base and Ollie Bar. A pre cured and loaded carbon strip. The TRS has what, fancy core layup and an extruded base? Where exactly is the $110 difference? Handmade i.e. less accurate?
T.Rice vs Custom. T.Rice has flipped glass, and a beans topsheet. The Custom has just as fancy a core layup, carbon stringers running from the inserts to the edge, and a glass/carbon matrix layup. Yes, they will make many more Customs than Mervin will make Rice's. But I'd wager with the level of composites in the Custom had it been made "by hand near Canada" it would cost similar to the Darker. I truly can't imagine the bulk production advantage of the Custom equals $100. 

Never Summer huh? I don't feel like you've not been here long enough to know my opinions on them too... I've stated for a very long time that they are consistently overpriced as well. My usual comparison goes to Flow as I've found they have similar ride characteristics with boards similar to the stalwarts in the NS line. I used K2 and Burton with Mervin this time as they were the brands you brought up.

Also my whole point in the price comparison deal is to try and figure out why you keep implying and now stating that NS and Mervin are "top tier". Exactly what makes them Top Tier compared to brands making similar riding boards for less with more expensive materials?


----------



## linvillegorge

Nivek said:


> Golden Eye remains in my head an amazing game.


You know they remade it last year, right? Same amazing game with the updated graphics and FPS of the current gen systems. Phenom. :thumbsup:


----------



## rambob

I'm pretty sure the TNT Base has Fairy Dust in it....and some meth...and a kid told me thc. :dizzy:


----------



## jtg

I believe it is the Smokin boards that contain THC. And if you look carefully at the designs, there is a map to Leo's hidden in there.


----------



## freshy

Nivek said:


> I guess my verbiage could have been a little more clear. And I'm not saying you wouldn't buy that Emma again, but I am curious, when was the last time you rode one? Golden Eye remains in my head an amazing game. The last time I played it, about 6 months ago, it was nearly unplayable by todays FPS standards. I was impressed with my past self that I could actually play that game with skill and accuracy.
> 
> 
> 
> I was comparing similar boards in the line. As in the Happy Hour, with a sintered base and Ollie Bar. A pre cured and loaded carbon strip. The TRS has what, fancy core layup and an extruded base? Where exactly is the $110 difference? Handmade i.e. less accurate?
> T.Rice vs Custom. T.Rice has flipped glass, and a beans topsheet. The Custom has just as fancy a core layup, carbon stringers running from the inserts to the edge, and a glass/carbon matrix layup. Yes, they will make many more Customs than Mervin will make Rice's. But I'd wager with the level of composites in the Custom had it been made "by hand near Canada" it would cost similar to the Darker. I truly can't imagine the bulk production advantage of the Custom equals $100.
> 
> Never Summer huh? I don't feel like you've not been here long enough to know my opinions on them too... I've stated for a very long time that they are consistently overpriced as well. My usual comparison goes to Flow as I've found they have similar ride characteristics with boards similar to the stalwarts in the NS line. I used K2 and Burton with Mervin this time as they were the brands you brought up.
> 
> Also my whole point in the price comparison deal is to try and figure out why you keep implying and now stating that NS and Mervin are "top tier". Exactly what makes them Top Tier compared to brands making similar riding boards for less with more expensive materials?


I last rode my EmmaP in 06 I'm guessing since I bought my first Dark Series in 07. But it is the board I still compare everything to because it would turn like no other in the trees. You might be right that I would be less stoked now because it was a noodle when I sold it, then again thats when I was living for years at ski hills and riding over 100 days.
But I do still play old arcade games on my computer with MAME more than the newer modern games, Ghouls n Ghosts does not get old for me.

I can't say I know exactly what construction techniques anyone uses, but I also believe that you get what you pay for. I get weirded out by brands like Flow and DC who specialize in other ares and now have boards, kind of assume they are re-branded something or others. 

I guess I would consider a brand top tier when they use the best materials and are also pushing the boundaries of snowboarding technology. The price tag also has something to do with it on a lesser extent because I think if they charge a premium for a substandard board there would be a backlash against the company and would soon be out of business. But there are certain companies I trust will have a great feeling ride to their boards. I know your going to say something about better materials going into a cheaper board and same quality ride, but since I have personally never experienced that quality ride I won't really consider it. I have found what brands do it for me, and I will keep buying those brands until I have a reason not to. 

I guess I missed your opinions about NS, but I do know your not a fan of Lib. I do seem to hazily remember it might have been you that did like the way the Hot Knife rode tho.


----------



## baldylox

glaucon said:


> Yes you are. I've done the math, taking into account the materials, labor, pro rata portion of marketing expenses, and customary profit margin in the industry and arrived at exactly $665.89. To the extent the actual price is different from this scientific calculation (i.e., the 11 cent difference), sure, let's call that deliberate manipulation to get to $666 for the coolness factor. Apart from that, it's a pure coincidence.


You're privy to Mervin's exact overhead and labor rates?

PS: 'pro rata portion' is redundant.


----------



## poutanen

freshy said:


> I guess I would consider a brand top tier when they use the best materials and are also pushing the boundaries of snowboarding technology.


Which basically puts all the mass produced brands out of the "top tier". If you want the best materials, you've got to be looking at quad-glass, kevlar layers, graphite layers (not just stringers), titanal layers, zylon layers, etc.

Then you've got to look at bases that are winning races. A timing system has no subjectivity to it.

You don't look at Honda Accords to see the boundaries of automotive technology being pushed, you look at Lemans Prototype cars.


----------



## wrathfuldeity

bases....ehhh its the wax...the unicorn dust, iridium goat turds and waxing of virgins.

btw tomorrow I will be driving right past the merv plant...maybe I should do some dumpster diving.


----------



## F1EA

I won't quote their posts, but I think Poutanen and Nivek are SPOT ON.

Mervin/Neversummer = overpriced hype.

Cutting edge, superior materials, superior craftsmen blah blah blah, made here or there blah blah blah. All bullshit.

You want TRULY superior materials, REAL cutting edge tech, REAL CRAFT? for about the price of a Neversummer or Mervin (like less than +20% and in some cases the same, depending on how much tech you add) i can get a fully customized, made to order, crafted stick. Made in one of the most expensive places in America...

Now... Mervin and Neversummer are both solid. They are both good. But no way i'll pay what they claim. I would add some $ to a Pro model, just because i know the rider ussualy gets some dough out of it, so it's good support. But marketting production line, basic boards with 4 y/o technology and bulk purchased materials as a TOP TIER CRAFTED product.... Pfffft. Get real.


----------



## freshy

poutanen said:


> Which basically puts all the mass produced brands out of the "top tier". If you want the best materials, you've got to be looking at quad-glass, kevlar layers, graphite layers (not just stringers), titanal layers, zylon layers, etc.
> 
> Then you've got to look at bases that are winning races. A timing system has no subjectivity to it.
> 
> You don't look at Honda Accords to see the boundaries of automotive technology being pushed, you look at Lemans Prototype cars.


I mean within reason of course it still needs to be affordable, for example there are different levels of sintered base material, better quality metals for edges and inserts, types of wood for cores. I don't mean it has to be only space age materials going in there, and $100/gram wax being the only thing to touch a base. By pushing boundaries I'm thinking stuff like Carbonian (sp?) top sheets, magnetraction, binding mounting methods, trying out new shapes and camber profiles, ect... Some companies are trying to further the sport while other seem to just be building a snowboard for profit only. Innovations man, that's what I'm getting at.

If you think your mass produced in China boards is the be all and end all of snowboard materials and build then that's cool with me. I'll won't judge or not ride with you. You buy what you like and I'll do the same.

And yeah Honda does stuff like having the top half of the seats bending forward on a hinge system in an accident to reduce whiplash, it does not have to be all about horse power and speed.


----------



## poutanen

freshy said:


> If you think your mass produced in China boards is the be all and end all of snowboard materials and build then that's cool with me. I'll won't judge or not ride with you. You buy what you like and I'll do the same.


Who said anything about them being the top tier? I just don't think the made in America boards offer anything special over the Chinese boards for the price.

The best boards in the world right now are being made in Germany, Switzerland, and Austria (some handmade, some mass produced). Although there are great boards being made all over the world.


----------



## SnowDragon

I'm going to ask this again, because I previously posted this in this thread and only got one response, which didn't entirely fit.
If Mervin stuff is expensive and over-hyped, please offer alternatives to meet my requirements.

I ride two Lib Tech boards currently (although I've owned several) - TRS and Banana Magic, in case that matters.

I want boards that:

a) have excellent edge hold - non-negotiable requirement.
b) have camber-rocker-camber profile. This is the profile I prefer over all others.
c) lighter than Lib Techs, which ARE relatively heavy.
d) less expensive than Lib Techs, since that is a major complaint in this thread.
e) true twin shape, or at least directional twin that rides switch easily.

If I don't hear any suggestions, I'll assume that I made the correct choice buying my Lib Techs, and the arguments against such purchases are moot.


----------



## freshy

F1EA said:


> Cutting edge, superior materials, superior craftsmen blah blah blah, made here or there blah blah blah. All bullshit.
> 
> You want TRULY superior materials, REAL cutting edge tech, REAL CRAFT? for about the price of a Neversummer or Mervin (like less than +20% and in some cases the same, depending on how much tech you add) i can get a fully customized, made to order, crafted stick. Made in one of the most expensive places in America...


Did you just call bullshit on Prior (Or whatever company your referring to) right before you hyped it up? Lol.


----------



## F1EA

freshy said:


> Did you just call bullshit on Prior (Or whatever company your referring to) right before you hyped it up? Lol.


No buddy... BIG difference in custom built-to-order, small stock material purchase, from: mass line production and bulk materials purchase. Tech that you simply don't find on any mass-produced board vs 4 y/o that almost everyone has, just under a different name.

And that's where the problem lies: the above (mass production) is not "bad", just that it is NOT the top tier cutting edge product it is hyped to be (and reflected in the price)

And note how i didnt call a brand name... to actually not hype anyone up


----------



## Redline

GreyDragon said:


> I'm going to ask this again, because I previously posted this in this thread and only got one response, which didn't entirely fit.
> If Mervin stuff is expensive and over-hyped, please offer alternatives to meet my requirements.
> 
> I ride two Lib Tech boards currently (although I've owned several) - TRS and Banana Magic, in case that matters.
> 
> I want boards that:
> 
> a) have excellent edge hold - non-negotiable requirement.
> b) have camber-rocker-camber profile. This is the profile I prefer over all others.
> c) lighter than Lib Techs, which ARE relatively heavy.
> d) less expensive than Lib Techs, since that is a major complaint in this thread.
> e) true twin shape, or at least directional twin that rides switch easily.
> 
> If I don't hear any suggestions, I'll assume that I made the correct choice buying my Lib Techs, and the arguments against such purchases are moot.


If you like what you have you made the right choice.


----------



## SnowDragon

Redline said:


> If you like what you have you made the right choice.


I like what I have (except the board weight to be honest), but there's alot of complaining on this thread about Lib Tech, yet, for what I want, I don't see any alternatives, except for Never Summer, which could have a similar thread it seems.

Is everyone just hating because they are more successful than other brands offering similar products, or do they have products that meet specific needs (like mine) which are not available from other brands?:dunno:


----------



## emc19

Bro if you're happy with what you have then who cares what anyone else thinks 


Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## poutanen

GreyDragon said:


> Is everyone just hating because they are more successful than other brands offering similar products, or do they have products that meet specific needs (like mine) which are not available from other brands?:dunno:


Here are boards that meet those specs, haven't tried them so can't speak for the edge hold, but these are CRC twins that are less expensive than Libs:

Burton Process Flying V
Burton Antler
Burton Custom Flying V (twin like)
Burton Sherlock
Nitro Team Gullwing
Nitro Blacklight Gullwing


----------



## OU812

Maybe I am wrong here and would love if someone could correct me on this, but most of GNU's boards have sintered bases and good ones too I've heard yet the majority of Lib Tech boards are extruded. What gives? Is it the fact that they're pushing the basalt fibres and cutting corners elsewhere? Any info on this?


----------



## ItchEtrigR

emc19 said:


> Bro if you're happy with what you have then who cares what anyone else thinks
> 
> 
> Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


+1

This thread is all "board>rider"

Fuck having a hard on for the best board, I get a hard on anytime I can get in a few more days.


----------



## SnowDragon

emc19 said:


> Bro if you're happy with what you have then who cares what anyone else thinks
> 
> LOL!
> I don't care what anyone thinks (don't think I said that I did), but I'm trying to point out that maybe, just maybe, Mervin produces boards that meet the requirements of many riders while other manufacturers don't meet those requirements at all, or not as well.
> 
> 
> 
> poutanen said:
> 
> 
> 
> Here are boards that meet those specs, haven't tried them so can't speak for the edge hold, but these are CRC twins that are less expensive than Libs:
> 
> Burton Process Flying V
> Burton Antler
> Burton Custom Flying V (twin like)
> Burton Sherlock
> Nitro Team Gullwing
> Nitro Blacklight Gullwing
> 
> 
> 
> Interesting suggestions sir!
> I have heard often that the Burtons don't have very good edge grip, although I have not ridden one myself.
> 
> Now the Nitros, they have caught my eye in the past, but I haven't had a chance to demo one yet. I will keep them in mind.
> 
> Again, my only real complaint with Mervin boards is the weight.
> I can afford the prices, especially since I usually buy them on discount, and they otherwise meet all of my requirements.
> 
> So, is it time to start a thread about why people hate Never Summer, or Burton?:laugh:
> (Two very successful companies as well, btw...)
Click to expand...


----------



## Nivek

GreyDragon said:


> I'm going to ask this again, because I previously posted this in this thread and only got one response, which didn't entirely fit.
> If Mervin stuff is expensive and over-hyped, please offer alternatives to meet my requirements.
> 
> I ride two Lib Tech boards currently (although I've owned several) - TRS and Banana Magic, in case that matters.
> 
> I want boards that:
> 
> a) have excellent edge hold - non-negotiable requirement.
> b) have camber-rocker-camber profile. This is the profile I prefer over all others.
> c) lighter than Lib Techs, which ARE relatively heavy.
> d) less expensive than Lib Techs, since that is a major complaint in this thread.
> e) true twin shape, or at least directional twin that rides switch easily.
> 
> If I don't hear any suggestions, I'll assume that I made the correct choice buying my Lib Techs, and the arguments against such purchases are moot.


My suggestions hinge entirely on your ability as a rider to hold an edge. The thing with Magne is it does all the edge work for you. One doesn't need to have fine edge control to grip on a Mervin. In my experience anything with traditional Magne sacrifices minute adjustments in your turn for that easy edge hold. Now mellow mag seems to have fixed my issue, but then I think it's only on par with some of the better done non-bumpy sidecuts out there. 

Which I'm not saying you can only like Magne if you can't turn. If you like it more power to ya. And if you do just like Magne the best, then yeah, Mervin is the only brand that fits your requirements. Though I'd like to say that in no way in my eyes justifies their price.

For your TRS try a Flow Era, for your Magic the Rush. Flow's 5 radial sidecut is one of, if not the most grippy non-bumpy sidecuts I've ridden.


----------



## SnowDragon

Nivek said:


> My suggestions hinge entirely on your ability as a rider to hold an edge. The thing with Magne is it does all the edge work for you. One doesn't need to have fine edge control to grip on a Mervin. In my experience anything with traditional Magne sacrifices minute adjustments in your turn for that easy edge hold. Now mellow mag seems to have fixed my issue, but then I think it's only on par with some of the better done non-bumpy sidecuts out there.
> 
> Which I'm not saying you can only like Magne if you can't turn. If you like it more power to ya. And if you do just like Magne the best, then yeah, Mervin is the only brand that fits your requirements. Though I'd like to say that in no way in my eyes justifies their price.
> 
> For your TRS try a Flow Era, for your Magic the Rush. Flow's 5 radial sidecut is one of, if not the most grippy non-bumpy sidecuts I've ridden.


Appreciate the input and suggestions.
I'll have a look.


----------



## drstone

Gotta say, I dont give a fuck what anyones opinion of my boards are. I ride a Gnu metal guru and a Gnu Dirty Pillow and both are sick. Sure Ill try other boards, but these are the go to's. Out here on the eastern edge of the ice coast the magnetraction goes a long way. They werent crazy expensive, but they are dope. I honestly feel like they may be worth more than they cost, but dont tell gnu.


----------



## eelpout

GreyDragon said:


> Appreciate the input and suggestions.
> I'll have a look.


I'd also suggest the Rossignol's with the 5S, mellow Mag side cut. Maybe J. Jones too.


----------



## poutanen

eelpout said:


> I'd also suggest the Rossignol's with the 5S, mellow Mag side cut. Maybe J. Jones too.


Hey's interested in CRC only, there are a million RCR options out there, but very few companies seem to do CRC, other than those mentioned already...


----------



## eelpout

poutanen said:


> Hey's interested in CRC only, there are a million RCR options out there, but very few companies seem to do CRC, other than those mentioned already...


Oops. My bad. Apologies. :|


----------



## freshy

I guess we can all agree lots of boards are very good and make us happy. Some don't care what brand they have, others identify with a certain brand, others are against certain brands...Whateves. 

Looks like no one who likes their board is going to be persuaded to change what board they ride anyway.


----------



## Luvmustycarpet1

eelpout said:


> Oops. My bad. Apologies. :|





freshy said:


> I guess we can all agree lots of boards are very good and make us happy. Some don't care what brand they have, others identify with a certain brand, others are against certain brands...Whateves.
> 
> Looks like no one who likes their board is going to be persuaded to change what board they ride anyway.


Very true ...to each is own , snowboarding is all about prefrence what's good for me might not be good for you


----------



## poutanen

eelpout said:


> Oops. My bad. Apologies. :|


No worries, I'm an RCR guy or camber with a lifted nose... seems guys like me have lots of choice these days!!! :yahoo:


----------



## spacemanspiff

I've ridden a GNU Carbon Credit and Never Summer heritage, quality of both were good but I think overall the GNU seemed better. Plus GNU/Lib have a cool vibe and sick graphics.

Therefore, I just got a T rice pro at 50% off.. Thinking about ordering a GNU Beast. :yahoo:


----------



## taco tuesday

Anyone complaining about price or for that matter paying sticker price for any board just might be a moron. I picked up a brand new 12/13 Billy Goat for $230. There are all sorts of deals to be had. If you need to buy the newest/latest greatest to feel satisfied, that is your issue not the manufacturers. What are the odds of finding the same deal on NS? Let's bitch about their prices next.

That being said. If you don't like mervin boards for other reason so be it. Different strokes for different folks.


----------



## poutanen

taco tuesday said:


> That being said. If you don't like mervin boards for other reason so be it. Different strokes for different folks.


Piscent? Happy Tuesday!

Anyway, this might be the most logical first post I've ever seen! :eusa_clap:


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## NWskunkAPE

Luvmustycarpet1 said:


> As I read some of these threads I see a lot of people shiting all over mervin boards and I'm wondering why ppl really dislike them ? I persoanlly love em I had Burton boards , ride boards ,Rome and a bunch more my friends have that I tried .... I personally love everything about libs n gnu... So if your a hater of these boards I'm curious to the reasons behind it ? To each is own if u hate em more power to you I would jus like to hear the reasons behind it.


They are not. Its this website all these douche bags care about is Never Summer boards. Which are great boards but I rarely see them in NW. So I guess its a territory thing. I dont know. Fanboys can be so annoying.


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## Brewtown

NWskunkAPE said:


> They are not. Its this website all these douche bags care about is Never Summer boards. Which are great boards but I rarely see them in NW. So I guess its a territory thing. I dont know. Fanboys can be so annoying.


I've not a huge fan of the CRC profiles I've tried, so I have fairly limited experience with both NS and Mervin. However when I did decide to buy one I went with NS primarily because I had heard they are better built and more durable (I couldn't justify spending money on a board with such potential for damage to the nose and tail). I was also annoyed trying to research all the crazy names they have for their different profiles, but then again all companies make tweaks to their profile so at least Mervin has a name for them I guess. Anyway no hate here, just stating my reasons, but I'm also curious to hear the other side of the argument: For all the Mervin lovers out there, what is it (aside from the obvious magnetraction) that makes Mervin your top choice?


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## Northriver1

I guess the reason I mainly buy Mervin products is because they are Local to where I live and have been since the beginning, they give back to the community in various ways, have an excellent product line and are just plain cool!.... I've owned Mervin boards since 1990 and have about 10 right now...


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## ridinbend

NWskunkAPE said:


> Fanboys can be so annoying.


How are you any different from the CO Neversummer supporters?


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## Mammoth Lifty

*Pro Mervin... Sort Of*

So I've Ridden on my '14 Gnu 156 Space Case for 111 days up here at Mammoth. Although it was a low snow season it saw its fair share of riding. I do love my board but it has gotten pretty thrashed. the top sheet is busting a little on the tail and the base needs constant upkeep. It seems like I'm waxing everyday. BUT this board is my baby, it has handled everything I've thrown at it and more. I used to be a Forum Lifer (been strictly riding forum gear for 10 years) but since the company disbanded I had to look for a new company. I did extensive research and found that Mervin had the most variety and selection. Now I'm not Mr. Gotrocks so I was a little hesitant when I saw their strictly $500 and up retail price however, I had a hookup and wound up getting my space case for $300 brand new. This is the first Mervin board I have owned and I am fairly pleased with their product. I don't understand the brand hating thing. I don't like Burton because they decided to end Forum for good but that won't stop me from buying their products if need be.


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## Nivek

^^just a reminder, Burton saved Forum from becoming a box store brand 8 years ago.


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## Mammoth Lifty

yeah and then when the Brand started to make a come back they ended production and took a lot of the tech. look at the newer malavitas and the 2010 shaka's pretty much the same binding just with some burton flare added


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## Alkasquawlik

Mammoth Lifty said:


> yeah and then when the Brand started to make a come back they ended production and took a lot of the tech. look at the newer malavitas and the 2010 shaka's pretty much the same binding just with some burton flare added


methinks you don't have a firm grasp on the issues that ultimately brought Forum down. Shitting on Burton for it is ignorant and laughable.


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## BurtonAvenger

Alkasquawlik said:


> methinks you don't have a firm grasp on the issues that ultimately brought Forum down. Shitting on Burton for it is ignorant and laughable.


^ QUOTED FOR TRUTH!

Ah the life of a snow carney.


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## Nivek

Alkasquawlik said:


> methinks you don't have a firm grasp on the issues that ultimately brought Forum down. Shitting on Burton for it is ignorant and laughable.


Quoted again to stress the truthfulness.


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## f00bar

Can this thread please just fade away? Is there really anything else to say?


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## Seppuccu

I know this is all part of a glorious thread revival, but I'm going to reply anyway. 


GreyDragon said:


> Now the Nitros, they have caught my eye in the past, but I haven't had a chance to demo one yet. I will keep them in mind.


Not that my shitty beginner-intermediate word weighs anywhere near as much as those of the more advanced riders here, but I'd still like to +1 the Nitro Team GW. I rode a 159W for three days in Val Thorens this winter and I loved it.

Of all the boards I've tried so far (9) it definitely has the fastest base. In fact, the base is so fast it's ridiculous. The board just doesn't want to go slow. And by fast I mean the way it accelerates - I'm not talking bout how stable it is at speed. Yes, that depends on the wax job but seeing as I tried 3 different newly waxed boards from the same shop I'd say the difference was quite established.

I didn't encounter icy conditions during those days but I'd say it held an edge as well or better as any other board I've tried, and we were practicing hard, drawn out carves on it. A few times when I fucked up and caught an edge it would take bite out of the hardpack the size of my head... Methinks it's a sign of good edge pressure. 

The way I remember it the Skate Banana 159w I tried was heavier and bulkier that the Team GW 159w.

Definitely worth checking out, I hope you get to demo it. It definitely fullfills your prerequisites b)-f). You'll have to test a) for yourself, but I know BA thinks it rails.


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## Deimus85

I love my 2011/12 Lib TRS and my 2008/09 Gnu Danny Kass Vertighoul. Both are a lot of snowboard (and were pretty expensive), so I don't really take them everywhere I ride. The TRS is my bigger mountain board, and the Vertighoul is for when I want to hit jumps all day. My smaller mountain board is a 2012/13 K2 Happy Hour.


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## radiomuse210

I haven't read through the whole thread and haven't ridden a Mervin board...but I did have a pair of Gnu bindings that were absolute crap. My Burton Stilettos have held up over many season with just a few scuffs on them, while the Gnus fell apart halfway through the first season I had them. I can't remember the name of them...but that was my first and last experience with Gnu.  I dig my Burton bindings and NS board personally.


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## jdang307

So what brought Forum down inquiring minds want to know. (Forum Destroyer 2nd board I rode and it was awesome not that I knew anything but it looked really really cool).


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## Nivek

Honestly there's a lot of back end stuff that went down that not many people know of. I've heard faint whispers, enough to know that I don't know the whole story. But basically, Burton was hurting for money, Forum wasn't making enough in their eyes, so they had to go. And rather than sell them to TSA they just ended it. The big thing to remember with the whole situation is that was the second time Forum was in that position. The first time 8 or 9 years ago Burton kept them from being sold to Garts or the like and kept them as a true snowboard brand and effectively ran separately from Burton.

Could Burton have kept Forum running financially? Maybe, probably. But they did get and keep them running for 8 years longer than the brand would have lasted without Burton. And guess what, brands die. Look at Lamar, Sims, Drake, and Northwave. All major hitters that are either on life support or dead. Hell, Vans isn't shipping boots this year and I've already started hearing rumors Nike is pulling out of snow for '16. This is all a business, business decisions will be made. We can only make decisions on nostalgia for so long.

And if you have a problem with Burton remember these things: NS produces ski's, so does K2 and therefore Ride, Vans is attached to The North Face, Volcom is owned by Prada, Mervin makes skis and is owned by a holding corp... Burton, Burton is still owned by Jake and his Wife and they don't make ski's. Oh and they set up Riglet Parks in Central Park New York to try and capture young kids into the sport. So there's that.


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## highme

I'm the anomaly; a PNW local who rides an NS (most of the time, my quiver includes Atomic, Rome, Burton & K2 as well). 

I like Mervin's gear. I don't like using Mervin's gear (I don't like the way it rides). There was a 2012 Jamie Lynn in damn good condition on CL recently for $100. I was tempted to pick it up and give it a shot, fortunately it sold before I could think too hard and I avoided adding another board to my collection.


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## xIceHoundx

I'm curious as to what boards people would suggest that would compare to a LT Skunk Ape HP 167w. The market just seems not challenging for a big guy like me to find a stick.


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## linvillegorge

Nivek said:


> I've already started hearing rumors Nike is pulling out of snow for '16.


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