# 2012 Never Summer SL...not as fun as my Slayblade



## GeoFX (Oct 25, 2007)

Well, I had my first riding experience with my 2012 Never Summer SL 155 at Mt. Charleston (Las Vegas) the past couple days. My old board for comparison is a 2009 K2 Slayblade with their Flatline tech (zero camber). I'm 5'7", 165lbs, with size 7.5 boots. Anyway, I had pretty high hopes for it considering the accolades on the site in addition to it being my first exposure to the RC tech. Compared to the Slayblade, I found it to be a lot more squirelly flat-basing (which I expected) and a little harder to turn (which I didn't considering the RC tech). Granted, I was coming from a 153 to 155 size so the bigger size could've accounted for the turning issues but it shouldn't make that much of a difference. Snow conditions were packed powder and I was mainly riding on the groomers and doing tree runs(slow-speed, tight-turns).

I was definitely missing the flat-base stability of the Slayblade. It seemed like the SL wanted to be on edge constantly. Turn initiation also seemed easier with the Slayblade as well. The damping of the SL was also noticeably less than that of the Slayblade (guess the Harshmellow really does make a differnce!).

Just posing a question to other board members whether a couple days of riding is enough to make a fair judgement on the SL and the RC tech?:dunno: Anyone else compared a zero camber board with the NS RC board and had a similar experience?


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## mitch19 (Jul 27, 2011)

I Have never rode the slayblade, I rode a 157 Darkstar before my 155 SL both were awesome boards but I love my SL has been able to handle everything I have thrown at it so far from jumps through to ice, powder and tight tree turns. Don't really know what you mean by you find the turn initiation harder seeing as I can not compare it to the slapyblade but am able to turn my SL with the slightest of ease :dunno: maybe you just need some more time on it but I knew from my first run on it that I loved it.


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## GeoFX (Oct 25, 2007)

Yeah the slower turn initiation of the SL kinda surprised me considering the center rocker and deep sidecut of the camber sections that it possesses. I can only describe that the Slayblade was more responsive than the SL at the instant where i first bend my front leg to engage the toe-side edge. 

I wonder if the SL needs to be more on edge during turning (i.e., at a higher angle)? The Slayblade just seems so responsive given that the zero camber allows the whole edge to engage at once it seems.

I'll give the SL another go at Winter Park late January so see if I just need to dial it in more...


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## lonerider (Apr 10, 2009)

Nah... 2012 SL 155 is utter crap. Terrible edgehold, noodle-ly and washes out every turn... you should put it up on Ebay ($100 starting bid, no reserve, 1 day auction) and get rid of it.


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## GeoFX (Oct 25, 2007)

Heh...I knew I was gonna catch some flak from the people around here for _daring _to say anything negative about a Never Summer. In all honesty, I just felt that the Slayblade does outperform the SL in turning and stability given my first couple of days on the SL, which to me equals more fun for my riding style.

I won't question the superb build quality of the SL, however, as I ran over some tree roots that were sticking out and rocks with no noticeable scratches in the base at all.


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## l burke l (Mar 1, 2009)

lonerider said:


> Nah... 2012 SL 155 is utter crap. Terrible edgehold, noodle-ly and washes out every turn... you should put it up on Ebay ($100 starting bid, no reserve, 1 day auction) and get rid of it.


i agree. and make sure you let us know when your putting it up.


In all seriousness though, I think everyone should account when testing out a new board the first day of the season after 2 riding the same board for 2 years that it WILL feel different. I am very comfortable in my riding but my first day out riding every season is defiantly a little shaky compared to a mid season ride.


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## lonerider (Apr 10, 2009)

GeoFX said:


> Heh...I knew I was gonna catch some flak from the people around here for _daring _to say anything negative about a Never Summer. In all honesty, I just felt that the Slayblade does outperform the SL in turning and stability given my first couple of days on the SL, which to me equals more fun for my riding style.
> 
> I won't question the superb build quality of the SL, however, as I ran over some tree roots that were sticking out and rocks with no noticeable scratches in the base at all.


I didn't end up riding the Slayblade (have ridden the Parkstar and Fastplant and an last two Jibpan models). I didn't find the harshmellow in the 2009 Jibpan as damp as the SL myself. I can understand the squirreliness flat-basing the SL coming off the lift as that's how rocker boards ride (the 1st gen BTX were way worse), I never found it an issue with both feet strapped in and at speed though. I never found the 2009 or the 2012 SL to be difficult to initiate a turn though (and I'm lighter than you) ... maybe the shorter Slayblade was torsionally softer (requires less input to initiate the turn).

Seriously though, I happen to like NS boards and know they are top-quality boards... but their aren't made of rainbows and cocaine that will instantly make you an amazing pro rider (and it is totally possible that the board is not what you like). I read too many un-objective reviews from people that just over-hype Never Summer boards... pretty much every board review here is way over the top to "arouse excitement" in the luddites.

Don't come here to try to rationalize what you feel... just ride it more, ... and if you still don't like it... try a different board (after selling me yours for half off).


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## oskar (Nov 23, 2010)

I just bought a Proto ct for this season, hands down the best board i have ever ridden.


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## ETM (Aug 11, 2009)

I was disappointed with my NS SL to be honest but over time I have come to respect it as a weapon in bad and icy snow conditions. I have confidence in that board that I would never have in a full rocker board.


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## Kesson (Nov 25, 2011)

I haven't ridden the SL or any NS board for that matter but I've had the same issues as you with the rocker-camber boards I have ridden. I enjoy the low speed playfulness and the pop of the cambered tips but I never feel comfortable flat basing at high speeds. I think I'm too light (160lb.) to keep the board pressed into the snow and that nose always wants to lift and it feels like it's going to catch when it comes back down. Next RC board I try I will be downsizing from my usual 155-157 to a 152-154 to see if bringing the camber nearer my feet affords me more control. I'm also going to be looking for something with a little softer flex so that I'll hopefully be able to manipulate the board better with my limited poundage.

Just got my first flat camber board, a nitro rook, so I'm exited to try that profile out to see if it's more stable when flat basing.


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## P3 Mammoth (Dec 3, 2011)

You have to buy the right size board to do a proper evaluation! With your height and foot size, you should be on a 153. There is a significant difference in waist width between a 153 and 155. This difference is what accounts for your lack of nimbleness in turn initiation and edge to edge response. I am your size and have ridden both lengths. The NS SL does not shine in icy conditions. If you ride firm snow most of the time, a hybrid camber board or a Mervin C2 Btx board might be a better fit. Look for a board that has a waist width less than 25.0. You'll be a much happy camper.


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## GeoFX (Oct 25, 2007)

Kesson said:


> I haven't ridden the SL or any NS board for that matter but I've had the same issues as you with the rocker-camber boards I have ridden. I enjoy the low speed playfulness and the pop of the cambered tips but I never feel comfortable flat basing at high speeds. I think I'm too light (160lb.) to keep the board pressed into the snow and that nose always wants to lift and it feels like it's going to catch when it comes back down. Next RC board I try I will be downsizing from my usual 155-157 to a 152-154 to see if bringing the camber nearer my feet affords me more control. I'm also going to be looking for something with a little softer flex so that I'll hopefully be able to manipulate the board better with my limited poundage.
> 
> Just got my first flat camber board, a nitro rook, so I'm exited to try that profile out to see if it's more stable when flat basing.


Good to see I wasn't imagining things about the flat-basing issues.:laugh: Funny thing was that exiting the lift the board didn't feel squirelly at all like I expected. At moderate to higher-speeds there was a tendency of the SL to always want to be on edge (subconsciously maybe I _needed _to be on edge to maintain stability when flat-basing). I was riding it with Salomon Relay XLT bindings which are pretty responsive too. Other thoughts was that I didn't notice the board being catchy at all though even with the 90 degree factory tuning as other reviews have stated. 

Like some other posters said, maybe it was just me shaking off early-season rust so my intial thoughts aren't truly representative of the board's performance...


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## GeoFX (Oct 25, 2007)

P3 Mammoth said:


> You have to buy the right size board to do a proper evaluation! With your height and foot size, you should be on a 153. There is a significant difference in waist width between a 153 and 155. This difference is what accounts for your lack of nimbleness in turn initiation and edge to edge response. I am your size and have ridden both lengths. The NS SL does not shine in icy conditions. If you ride firm snow most of the time, a hybrid camber board or a Mervin C2 Btx board might be a better fit. Look for a board that has a waist width less than 25.0. You'll be a much happy camper.


I was wondering about the waist width when first researching the SL and based on Snowolf's review of the 158 Heritage (with a waist width of 25.4cm and his size 8.5 feet). I asked him if he thought the the board was too wide and he replied that the ultra-responsiveness of the camber sections in the RC tech was well suited for smaller-footed riders even at those widths. The SL has a 25.2cm waist width (for comparison, my Slayblade 153 has a 24.8cm ww). Other reviews of the NS men's boards (by Shayboarder who has smaller feet than myself) never mentioned the WW being an issue.

Another reason for going to a 155 board (and thus wider width) is that I generally ride in big-mountain resorts with more pow so that should be better than the 153 with respect to floatability.


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## Nolefan2011 (Mar 12, 2011)

I'll back you up Geo. I have demoed a lot of stuff. A LOT. I could offer a lot better options than the SL. The SL failed for me. The Evo and Heritage were much better in their respective categories. 

I doubt I ever own a Never Summer. Just seems to me, if you are avoiding the one board quiver option, there are boards that are better in each category. 

The SL is a damp, I thought stable board (I have ridden a lot of RC type boards). However, it is so plank like, that it just doesn't have the fun and snap of other boards in their category. Plain and simple, unless you are a beginner, ride the SL and then ride the Coda from Arbor. Tell me which board you liked better without lying. I think newer riders love the SL because it is definitely more damp and stable at speed than the Coda. But the Coda has way more response edge to edge, the grip tech is better edge technology, and the snap and pop is on another planet compared to the SL. But for a beginner to advanced beginner borderlining on intermediate, I get it. For good enough riders, the little extra chatter at speed doesn't bother you. 

Prime example, I own a Capita Ultrafear. I read the reviews. People said it lacked some stability at speed. I can b line the mountain and the little extra chatter vs the Evo isn't enough to make me switch to an Evo for a less responsive deck. 

If you want a quiver killer, the SL is great. Damp and stable to make ANYONE comfortable bombing. But if you are willing to buy a couple boards, get something that is excellent in certain categories, and weaker in other categories, and become a better rider so that issues of dampness and stability mean less to you because that little extra chatter when bombing no longer scares you.

Even as a one board quiver killer, I can think of boards right now that are better than the SL. The Arbor Coda, the Lib Tech TRS, the Forum Double Dog Destroyer (fun board, little dampness, and edge hold is weaker, but the snap and responsiveness are worth it if you can ride well), K2 Turbo Dream, Ride Machete, the list goes on.....


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## hikeswithdogs (Sep 23, 2011)

Hey man to each his own , allot of people I know SWEAR by NeverSummer boards but I rode a couple(SL and Heritage) after riding 2 Burton T6's for 4 years and I just wasn't feeling it. Their awesome boards no doubt but no one board is for everyone. I am a huge fan of K2 equipment but with that said I think my next board is gonna be a Nidecker or Saloman.


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## GeoFX (Oct 25, 2007)

Thanks Nolefan. With respect to damping, I thought the Slayblade was actually more damp and stable than the SL. I don't think any amount of early-season rust can account for that observation (unlike my turn initiation thoughts).


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## Nolefan2011 (Mar 12, 2011)

It probably is. And I haven't ridden a Slayblade. I actually didn't ride the Turbo Dream with Harshmellow. I rode the model the year before without it.

You are spot on with turn initiation. I have found in every category, that you can find boards with quicker turn initiations than the Never Summer option. My favorite board of theirs is the Heritage, which I would consider buying, but the responsiveness is something that always holds me back. Ride a Jamie Lynn the next day, and compare. It's scary....


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## LuckyRVA (Jan 18, 2011)

GeoFX said:


> Good to see I wasn't imagining things about the flat-basing issues.:laugh:


I just posted this in another thread: 

"I caught an edge at Hunter Mountain on Monday and must have been going about the same speed. I was flat basing it somewhere at the midpoint of the trail (Belt Parkway for those familiar). Board got squirrelly underfoot as I rode over some ice. Pretty sure I caught my front edge, it happened so fast. But, I hit my face on the ice/snow before I could react and proceeded to flip head over heels 2 times. Racking my head both times...well my face was the first time. I have a bruise on the bridge of my nose and my neck it just barely soar. I made it out pretty good considering. I think it helped that my body ragdolled and I didn't try to stop myself."

I was riding my NS Premier for the second time and definitely noticed some squirrelliness when flatbasing. Won't be doing that again. :laugh:


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## hikeswithdogs (Sep 23, 2011)

Would be curious to get more experienced opinions but I would assume a reg camber or Flat\0 camber is always going to be better for flat base riding than anything reverse camber.


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## idshred (Jun 20, 2010)

Nolefan2011 said:


> I'll back you up Geo. I have demoed a lot of stuff. A LOT. I could offer a lot better options than the SL. The SL failed for me. The Evo and Heritage were much better in their respective categories.


how long do you typically demo a board? a couple runs? half a day? depends on how busy they are?


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## GeoFX (Oct 25, 2007)

hikeswithdogs said:


> Would be curious to get more experienced opinions but I would assume a reg camber or Flat\0 camber is always going to be better for flat base riding than anything reverse camber.


What I noticed immediately about the zero camber of the Slayblade compared with the SL was the increased stability that the board offered since it had full-contact with the snow. Compared to my old cambered board, it was a night and day difference w/r/t higher-speed flat-basing. The negative issues I've read about the zero camber profile was that there was a tendency of the board to get "sucked-into" the snow in heavy/wet snow conditions due to the full contact (which I've never experienced mainly because I ride in CO and UT mostly).


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## Nolefan2011 (Mar 12, 2011)

I usually demo 1-2 days, depending on how much I like it. Rode the Heritage for 2 days. Rode the SL for a day. Rode the Lynn for a day, then rode the T Rice the second day.

Usually I go a whole day, because you need to adjust to the board. A couple runs IMO is worthless. You need it at least a day.


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## lonerider (Apr 10, 2009)

P3 Mammoth said:


> You have to buy the right size board to do a proper evaluation! With your height and foot size, you should be on a 153. There is a significant difference in waist width between a 153 and 155.This difference is what accounts for your lack of nimbleness in turn initiation and edge to edge response. I am your size and have ridden both lengths.


Footsize is a consideration... he could definitely go with a narrower board. But according to the specs, his old K2 Slayblade 153 was 24.8 cm waist and 29.2 cm tips compared to a 25.0 cm and 29.5 tips for the SL 155. That's only 3 mm and I'm pretty sure the few people would notice much of a difference in that. To give you an idea, I have ridden boards that have 18 cm waists (that is a noticeable change in edge to edge response). 






I have also test ridden the 2012 SL 153 and 155 (I own the 2009 SL 155) and I don't think the would 153 be stable enough for him (I'm like 15 lbs lighter than the both of you and fine the 155 pretty easy to turn), but who knows...



P3 Mammoth said:


> The NS SL does not shine in icy conditions. If you ride firm snow most of the time, a hybrid camber board or a Mervin C2 Btx board might be a better fit. Look for a board that has a waist width less than 25.0. You'll be a much happy camper.


The SL is a hybrid camber board... in fact the Mervin's C2BTX is arguably either a copy... or a refined version of NS's RC tech (Mervin came out with it a year after NS, replacing their first generation BTX). Now I'm becoming more and more interested in trying out the C2BTX... (the 1st gen BTX left just left a bad taste in my mouth)

Video of me messing around on the NS SL155 on a mellow slope.






Another video, at 0:45 you can see me flat-boarding quite a bit down a slope to hit a 40-foot kicker. That's the same jump you see at the start of the video (my friends are lazy and it's hard for me to get them to film me).


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## lonerider (Apr 10, 2009)

Nolefan2011 said:


> I'll back you up Geo. I have demoed a lot of stuff. A LOT. I could offer a lot better options than the SL. The SL failed for me. The Evo and Heritage were much better in their respective categories.
> 
> I doubt I ever own a Never Summer. Just seems to me, if you are avoiding the one board quiver option, there are boards that are better in each category.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the info. I will have to try out the Arbor Coda (and the Westmark) when I get a chance. For 2012 - I rode the Evo, Proto CT and SL... and ended up liking the Proto CT the best.


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## lonerider (Apr 10, 2009)

GeoFX said:


> I was wondering about the waist width when first researching the SL and based on Snowolf's review of the 158 Heritage (with a waist width of 25.4cm and his size 8.5 feet). I asked him if he thought the the board was too wide and he replied that the ultra-responsiveness of the camber sections in the RC tech was well suited for smaller-footed riders even at those widths. The SL has a 25.2cm waist width (for comparison, my Slayblade 153 has a 24.8cm ww). Other reviews of the NS men's boards (by Shayboarder who has smaller feet than myself) never mentioned the WW being an issue.
> 
> Another reason for going to a 155 board (and thus wider width) is that I generally ride in big-mountain resorts with more pow so that should be better than the 153 with respect to floatability.


2012 SL 155, is 25.1 cm waist... so you are only 1 mm off, off course 25.1 - 24.8 is only a 3 mm difference (meaning the white part of your finger nail is more than that). Seriously, in this particular instance I don't think that is the issue.


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## idshred (Jun 20, 2010)

Nolefan2011 said:


> Usually I go a whole day, because you need to adjust to the board. * A couple runs IMO is worthless*. You need it at least a day.


word. I feel the same way.


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