# FWD or RWD?



## burritosandsnow (Nov 22, 2008)

of those two a fwd ... theres a reason you dont see many rwd cars in ski towns haha ... if possible get awd or 4wd


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## Guest (May 21, 2009)

unfortunately its an extra $400 for an AWD or 4WD, i'm guessing the FRW is better for gripping and turning at the same time? is FWD still better than RWD when u have chains on both?


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## Bones (Feb 24, 2008)

bowie89449 said:


> unfortunately its an extra $400 for an AWD or 4WD, i'm guessing the FRW is better for gripping and turning at the same time? is FWD still better than RWD when u have chains on both?



Pulling is better than pushing.

Ummmm...sounds like you haven't driven much in snow. No matter what your drive system is, you're on snow. Neither FWD, AWD nor RWD can make it dry pavement. And 4wd isn't 4 wheel stop. 

Drive prudently if you don't have much experience in snow


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## pawel (Oct 2, 2007)

bowie89449 said:


> So I have a choice of rental vehicles for my next snow trip. What does everyone think is better for getting to the slopes, a small FWD car (eg toyota corolla) or a medium RWD car (eg toyota camry). Thanks


just to let you know toyota camry is front wheel drive. If you cannot get awd i would go with fwd!


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## Guest (May 21, 2009)

Bones said:


> Pulling is better than pushing.
> 
> Ummmm...sounds like you haven't driven much in snow. No matter what your drive system is, you're on snow. Neither FWD, AWD nor RWD can make it dry pavement. And 4wd isn't 4 wheel stop.
> 
> Drive prudently if you don't have much experience in snow


Your right I have not had much experience driving in snow, but I grew up in the bush driving on sand and heaps of extreme 4wding. But always in 4wd's. Thanks for the advice and I always drive prudently snow, rain, sand or motor-way.


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## Guest (May 21, 2009)

pawel said:


> just to let you know toyota camry is front wheel drive. If you cannot get awd i would go with fwd!


Haha thanks i just check too, and i was wrong cheers


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## Bones (Feb 24, 2008)

bowie89449 said:


> Your right I have not had much experience driving in snow, but I grew up in the bush driving on sand and heaps of extreme 4wding. But always in 4wd's. Thanks for the advice and I always drive prudently snow, rain, sand or motor-way.


Bush driving and sand driving aren't snow driving. Certainly having good driving skills in non-normal conditions is a help, but it isn't always directly applicable. It's not the getting stuck in the deep stuff that you'll have a problem with (well....on side streets after a dump maybe), it's the black ice in the parking lots and stop signs that you won't be used to. Just fender benders stuff, but enough to put a dent in your rental and kink in your holiday.

Get your rental, find a snow covered parking lot and spend 15 minutes doing some donuts and drifts and stops. Here in Canada, the first snowfall of the year has everyone sliding thru red lights/stop signs, fishtailing on slushy onramps, sliding into snow banks. And we live here! Seems to take everyone about a week to get their winter driving skills back. And you sure learn to watch your rear view when stopped at a redlight! Ski Hill parking lots are the worst.

Just saying....you'll be amazed by how far a car can slide at 10mph even with ABS.


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## Guest (May 22, 2009)

Thanks heaps guys, and that sounds like good advice Bones will do.


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## Willy36 (Dec 29, 2008)

A note about ABS since most people don't know this....If you can find the threshold RIGHT before the tires start to slide when braking (meaning ABS won't kick in), you will stop faster than if you slam on the brakes. This is a feel thing so if you don't have much experience driving in snow, just slam on the brakes and let the computer do it for you....

Also, if you're good at drifting, RWD can be better because you can still make turns then, whereas FWD causes massive understeer on ice. If you don't know what understeer is, again, it might just be best to just let the car do its job and go FWD and go slow.


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## Flick Montana (Jul 9, 2007)

Willy36 said:


> Also, if you're good at drifting, RWD can be better because you can still make turns then, whereas FWD causes massive understeer on ice.


Not to pick on your statements, but that is just crazy. Drifting is nothing like losing rear wheel traction. When you lose traction, unless you're a pro in a modded car with studded tires, you're screwed. Breaking the rear wheels loose is hard to control even for people like me who used to drive cars for a living. NEVER take a turn in the snow fast enough to slip them out of line or you're boned.


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## Willy36 (Dec 29, 2008)

Flick Montana said:


> Not to pick on your statements, but that is just crazy. Drifting is nothing like losing rear wheel traction. When you lose traction, unless you're a pro in a modded car with studded tires, you're screwed. Breaking the rear wheels loose is hard to control even for people like me who used to drive cars for a living. NEVER take a turn in the snow fast enough to slip them out of line or you're boned.


Ok I worded that wrong. I really should stop coming on the internet when I'm super-tired haha....

My point was just about the understeer with FWD. I know on ice it's not a big difference but it's enough of one in my opinion. And plus, I did not mean taking a turn so fast that you end up sliding just from turning. What I meant is, even though you shouldn't be gassing or braking while turning at all on ice, most people do. So when giving it gas in RWD, this won't necessarily mess you up, whereas it could send you into a ditch with FWD.


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## v-verb (Feb 1, 2009)

any possibility of getting a Subaru? They're 4 wheel drive and may not cost much more. If not possible get a FWD as others have mentioned.


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## RVM (Jan 31, 2007)

RWD and full-time AWD for performance. FWD and part-time/full-time AWD for snow and ice. 4wd with a locked rear differential is as good as it gets for snow and ice with only 4 wheels and/or no tracks.

There is a difference between part-time AWD, full-time AWD and locked/unlocked 4wd. An AWD vehicle of any type is *not* a 4wd vehicle.


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## Vlaze (Nov 12, 2008)

RWD or AWD. I will never buy a FWD car. I prefer being able to control a slide when the rear breaks loose contrast to a FWD when it breaks the rear loose which by that time, you're F'd. Coming from a racing background sliding sideways in the corners I have no issues controlling it on snow period.


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## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

I'm with Vlaze, only time I lost it was on black ice and ended up in a ditch was with a fwd...back end broke loose and instantly spun a wild 540 ass end backwards into the ditch ...absolutely no control. Verses driven mainly rwd and when the back end breaks loose you at least have some predictability and can usually able to bring it back undercontrol if you're driving in at least a somewhat reasonable manner. Also going up the hill is much easier than going down the hill...its all about controlling speed. IMHO fwd is a dumba$$ design, i.e., steering, power and breaks all up front.


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## Vlaze (Nov 12, 2008)

A FWD technically gets more bite than RWD with the engine resting right over the power transfer to the tires. That being said it helps those who don't know how to control a slide or drive a car in snow when it gets loose. However they better as hell drive it more considerably smooth because if or when it does get loose, might as well just let off the wheel and say F it.


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## Willy36 (Dec 29, 2008)

RVM said:


> RWD and full-time AWD for performance. FWD and part-time/full-time AWD for snow and ice. 4wd with a locked rear differential is as good as it gets for snow and ice with only 4 wheels and/or no tracks.
> 
> There is a difference between part-time AWD, full-time AWD and locked/unlocked 4wd. An AWD vehicle of any type is *not* a 4wd vehicle.


so true



Vlaze said:


> RWD or AWD. I will never buy a FWD car. I prefer being able to control a slide when the rear breaks loose contrast to a FWD when it breaks the rear loose which by that time, you're F'd. Coming from a racing background sliding sideways in the corners I have no issues controlling it on snow period.


this is what i was getting at in my posts....


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## Flick Montana (Jul 9, 2007)

Let's put it this way: For the average person, controlling a RWD car which has lost traction to the back end is next to impossible. They will end up going sideways and ending up in oncoming traffic. If you lose traction on a FWD, slamming the brakes (which is not correct, but is most peoples' response) will usually keep you in a straight line at the least. So long as you aren't going around a corner too fast with other cars coming, that is the safest thing. Also, it is less likely that you will lose traction to begin with in a FWD because of the way the car is set up.

I'm not saying you guys are wrong, I'm just saying that you need to consider what you're recommending to other people. Personally, I'm fine turning off the TCS on my Z on a track and drifting around corners, but I would NEVER recommend someone else takes it to the mountain. FWD is still the safest of the two. AWD is preferable so you don't get stuck.


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## Vlaze (Nov 12, 2008)

We're not, at least I wasn't which is exactly why I followed up explaining how an FWD would be good for those who do not know how to control a slide bluntly said.


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## RVM (Jan 31, 2007)

Not unless you have a huge proportion of the weight up front. As soon as you hit the gas the weight transfers over the back wheels. There is a reason why no FWD will ever be able to compete with an equivalent RWD or AWD in straight acceleration. 

I like FWDs in snow and ice but if you are used to driving a RWD then it's not the easiest thing to adjust for. I prefer a RWD in most driving situations, and if I had my druthers I'd have a full-time AWD system for 100% of my driving situations.



Vlaze said:


> A FWD technically gets more bite than RWD with the engine resting right over the power transfer to the tires. That being said it helps those who don't know how to control a slide or drive a car in snow when it gets loose. However they better as hell drive it more considerably smooth because if or when it does get loose, might as well just let off the wheel and say F it.


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## Vlaze (Nov 12, 2008)

RVM said:


> Not unless you have a huge proportion of the weight up front. As soon as you hit the gas the weight transfers over the back wheels. There is a reason why no FWD will ever be able to compete with an equivalent RWD or AWD in straight acceleration.
> 
> I like FWDs in snow and ice but if you are used to driving a RWD then it's not the easiest thing to adjust for. I prefer a RWD in most driving situations, and if I had my druthers I'd have a full-time AWD system for 100% of my driving situations.


Uhhhh..I'm going to just be nice here since I'm not sure if you're drunk or just, yea.....Newsflash, the engine sits up front right over top of the front axle which is exactly what I said, guess you missed that. Engines plus the front of the car included means, more weight on the front contrast to the rear for most cars. This is why they get better bite on snow contrast to the RWD. That being said, you can get plenty of bite with a RWD with weights such as sandbags and proper snow tires. 

What you're referring to is called, weight transfer during acceleration which indeed it's hard for them to compete straight up in a drag. But we're talking getting grip when snow driving here Mr Vin Diesel.


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## RVM (Jan 31, 2007)

Uhh, read what I wrote.

I was referring to acceleration, which you obviously understood. The reason a FWD is _generally_ considered superior on snow and ice is because there *IS* more weight up front, helping the tires get more traction on snow and ice.

If I misunderstood the point of your post my apologies, but no need for the smarmy remark, Mr. Jackass.




Vlaze said:


> Uhhhh..I'm going to just be nice here since I'm not sure if you're drunk or just, yea.....Newsflash, the engine sits up front right over top of the front axle which is exactly what I said, guess you missed that. This is why they get better bite on snow contrast to the RWD. That being said, you can get plenty of bite with a RWD with weights such as sandbags and proper snow tires.
> 
> What you're referring to is called, weight transfer during acceleration which indeed it's hard for them to compete straight up in a drag. But we're talking snow driving here Mr Vin Diesel.


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## Vlaze (Nov 12, 2008)

True, but I was on a role today so it was hard to refrain. And it wasn't a matter of referring to what *you* wrote, but what I wrote as you were quoting me intially, not the other way around. Moving on


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## RVM (Jan 31, 2007)

I understand completely and often do the same. lol :cheeky4:



Vlaze said:


> True, but I was on a role today so it was hard to refrain. And it wasn't a matter of referring to what *you* wrote, but what I wrote as you were quoting me intially, not the other way around. Moving on


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## arsenic0 (Nov 11, 2008)

I've all but decided im selling my FWD Scion TC and getting a AWD car of some sort for next season, like a Subaru Outback or something ...not sure what yet...
A buddy was tellin gme Subaru's have a ton of mechanical issues though? Not sure if hes just saying that because hes owned two Mitsu Evo's...


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## Guest (May 28, 2009)

mpdsnowman said:


> Yea...however...when you go deep off the road with your RWD toyota it will cost you alot more than that to have it towed out...not including the time it will take for someone to arrive and bail you out.
> 
> Get the FWD or AWD. Simple as that!


errm maybe I should have mentioned that I'm going to New Zealand. The car will be used for going from Christchurch to Queenstown, then to the snowfields from Queenstown. I could be wrong but the last 4 times I've been there is has only been driving on snow/ice on the approach roads to the hills. I don't think I will be battling blizzards in the middle of the night. As long as I'm very careful (slow enough to piss the locals off on the snowfield roads) I think I should be ok hey? every other time I've been there has been heaps of non AWD or 4WD cars in the carparks. I've even done the whole area in a campervan with my father driving in the middle of winter. Surely a modern FWD car has to be better than that? What do you think?

Sorry I just saw you said FWD or AWD my bad


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## Guest (May 28, 2009)

arsenic0 said:


> I've all but decided im selling my FWD Scion TC and getting a AWD car of some sort for next season, like a Subaru Outback or something ...not sure what yet...
> A buddy was tellin gme Subaru's have a ton of mechanical issues though? Not sure if hes just saying that because hes owned two Mitsu Evo's...


They have as many issues as other cars. I think their designs are very sound though. I usually do all my own work, so issues to some might not be to me. They did have a problem with head gaskets around 2000. They had changed the design and it led to leaks. It took them a couple iterations to get it right. I don't recall hearing about anything like that recently, but I don't really keep up on the latest models. There are some good Subaru forums you could search to learn about any issues that are out there. Just remember you'll be getting a biased response, probably like this one.


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## RVM (Jan 31, 2007)

Subarus are great cars. The gasket issue was corrected and as long as your car was under warranty they took care of it as many times as needed. The Suzuki SX4 is looking like it might be a sweet little ride too. Cheapest AWD car you can get and supposed to be really good. I know my Suzuki motorcycle is super reliable. I couldn't ask for a better made bike.



earlvb said:


> They have as many issues as other cars. I think their designs are very sound though. I usually do all my own work, so issues to some might not be to me. They did have a problem with head gaskets around 2000. They had changed the design and it led to leaks. It took them a couple iterations to get it right. I don't recall hearing about anything like that recently, but I don't really keep up on the latest models. There are some good Subaru forums you could search to learn about any issues that are out there. Just remember you'll be getting a biased response, probably like this one.


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## Guest (May 28, 2009)

Very very valid wolf.. here in japan during the snowseason which is bad... many AWD/4WD people crash.. more so than FF and FR.


but hey you know my answer lol

both FR cars lol










oh yea and i drift on snow with a Nismo 2way LSD.. so as long as the snow is not about 3 feet lol, i can make it to mountain and have fun on the way.



















ps

with new and inexperience drivers, FWD and AWD still is better for snow conditions for valid reason brought forth in this thread.


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