# Could you help a beginner out? I'm looking for a board that I won't outgrow.



## Daggs (Apr 7, 2012)

And money isn't really an issue...


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## Daggs (Apr 7, 2012)

That's funny because I was pretty intrigued with the Proto CT a couple of moths ago but I found myself shying away from it due to the fact that I got the sense that some didn't think it was suited for a beginner. But if you think otherwise, maybe I'll pull the trigger on it soon. Also, over spring break in breck, I was riding a 152. So you hit the nail on the head. As far as bindings go, what brand makes good bindings for beginners?


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## Daggs (Apr 7, 2012)

And with size 10 feet (US), am I ok with the normal width?


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## jdang307 (Feb 6, 2011)

Daggs said:


> That's funny because I was pretty intrigued with the Proto CT a couple of moths ago but I found myself shying away from it due to the fact that I got the sense that some didn't think it was suited for a beginner. But if you think otherwise, maybe I'll pull the trigger on it soon. Also, over spring break in breck, I was riding a 152. So you hit the nail on the head. As far as bindings go, what brand makes good bindings for beginners?


I'm torn between the Proto CT and Cobra this year (and a million other boards). I have a new westmark as my fuck around stick so I'm leaning Cobra. I wouldn't worry about it being too advanced. Millions of people who never even visited a forum have learned on whatever it is someone had spare in their garage. Just stay away from a too long too stiff board and you'll be fine.

I think a 154 proto would be perfect if you gain weight. 152 if you don't.

If you're really afraid of something to stiff maybe an Evo if we're sticking with NS sticks. It's not that soft but softer then the other decks mentioned. Capable of some all mountain trickery but does chatter when you get speed on bumpy terrain.


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## Daggs (Apr 7, 2012)

An bindings? Some say go with flexible ones as a beginner, others say go stiffer... Your take?


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## jdang307 (Feb 6, 2011)

Daggs said:


> An bindings? Some say go with flexible ones as a beginner, others say go stiffer... Your take?


Medium flex.

Burton Malavitas/Cartels.
raiden Phantoms
390 bosses.

Those are the ones I'd look at. I have K2 Uprises which fit the flex profile too, but I don't like the strap on my boots, others do. Up to you.


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## Frozen (Apr 21, 2012)

You mentioned that you will be riding in a lot of icy conditions so I would also recommend you pick a board with an edge that will perform well there. Mervin boards (Lib-Tech, Gnu) and Smokin boards have magne-traction, which is pretty much a serrated edge that they claim gives better edge hold in ice. My personal experience with magne-traction has been awesome riding the shitty icy conditions up here in Minnesota, but I’ve read great things on this forum about Never Summer’s “vario power grip” as well.


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## hktrdr (Apr 3, 2012)

Daggs said:


> An bindings? Some say go with flexible ones as a beginner, others say go stiffer... Your take?


Get something middle-of the-road in terms of flex as well as pricing, e.g., Burton Missions (Cartels if you want to splurge), Rome 390s, maybe the Flux TT30s, etc. Lots of choices, most of them perfectly suitable for most purposes (I know a competitive rider and instructor who still has Burton Custom bindings on one of this boards).

Over time you will discover more about your riding style and what it important to you (response, shock absorption, canting, adjustability, etc.) - at that point you can get something more specialized and suited to your preferences. And the older bindings can become your back-up or can go onto another board.
Or you might choose to modify what you have - there are lots of people with Frankenbindings.

Whatever you do, make sure that your bindings match your boots in size and fit. Some bindings come in three sizes (S/M/L) others only in two (S-M and L-XL). Many people in the 'cross-over range' between bindings sizes tend to go with the larger size (for easier entry, etc.), which is ok as long as the gap between the sides of the boot and the 'frame' of the binding is not too big.


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## hktrdr (Apr 3, 2012)

Frozen said:


> You mentioned that you will be riding in a lot of icy conditions so I would also recommend you pick a board with an edge that will perform well there. Mervin boards (Lib-Tech, Gnu) and Smokin boards have magne-traction, which is pretty much a serrated edge that they claim gives better edge hold in ice. My personal experience with magne-traction has been awesome riding the shitty icy conditions up here in Minnesota, but I’ve read great things on this forum about Never Summer’s “vario power grip” as well.


Various shapes of Magne-traction are also on Jones and some Rossignol boards. Many other manufacturers these days have technology aimed at achieving a similar effect (improving edge hold essentially by adding contact points) - NS's VarioGrip works very well by most accounts, Rome's QuickRip is also quite well regarded, while Burton's FrostBite frequently gets panned.


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## Daggs (Apr 7, 2012)

I've just been looking at some accounts of NS's vario power grip and I couldn't find anyone with anything bad to say about it. That being said, I keep coming across reviews of the proto ct where the reviewer specifically says that beginners shouldn't tackle it. However, it seems to be a pretty sick board and I would love to get it if I knew that I would be able to ride it without crashing into trees (seeing as I thought I was past that point). I just don't want to be selling it at the end of the season for less than what was paid for it - only to start this whole process again.


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## Argo (Feb 25, 2010)

You should buy the cobra that burtonavenger has for sale in the classified section... $400 for a virtually new board....


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## snowklinger (Aug 30, 2011)

Be aware that the RC camber option that is so popular these days (i love it too) has a small learning curve. The first week I had my proto it surprised me with a couple of hard scorpions when the camber section in front caught wierd. Heavily detuning around the contacts helped, but more importantly you will get used to the swivel that is between your feet. This board is not for lazy riding, it almost requires dynamic turns. 

More experienced riders may disagree on some of these points but as you are a newer rider, I would keep these things in mind.

FWIW I FUCKING LOVE MY PROTO.

After 50 days on it and seeing how Cro butters it, I'm beginnning to realize that it may even be too much board for me for most situations (still love it for dropping steeps, cornices, pow, speed). Looking to an Evo or something comparable for next year.


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## Daggs (Apr 7, 2012)

I think I'll pull the trigger on the proto. But I don't know whether a 152 or 154 is right for me. Also, with a size ten boot (and likely boss 309s) I should be alright with normal width,no?


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## Daggs (Apr 7, 2012)

Nevermind, I'll go with 152 CT. I think I'll pair it with a pair of red Rome 309 bosses. Then I'll go to my local shop and find a pair of boots (I know, I know...I'm doing it backwards - but oh well)


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## buggravy (Feb 19, 2008)

Daggs said:


> Nevermind, I'll go with 152 CT. I think I'll pair it with a pair of red Rome 309 bosses. Then I'll go to my local shop and find a pair of boots (I know, I know...I'm doing it backwards - but oh well)


You might want to consider the 154 instead of the 152. You definitely can and should do a "normal" width board with size 10 boots, but the waist width on the 152 does jump down considerably from the 154. You might be alright, but it would be pushing it a little. I totally back Snowolf's suggestions of the SL or Proto, and you definitely don't need to trip on any reviews saying they're not for beginners. I think that NS's RC tech makes for a really forgiving ride.


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## Nolefan2011 (Mar 12, 2011)

I'm not sure why nobody has suggested an Arbor Coda, but I'll be the first. 

1) RC profile is not easy to learn as a beginner, and like someone else mentioned, you are going to take some really brutal falls. A few years back, I jumped on my first Lib Tech, a Jamie Lynn, which was naturally a pretty stiff board, but I certainly took a couple nasty falls at 40+ MPH that just jumped at me. Didn't know what had happened on my toe side until I had buried my shoulder into the hardpacked. 2 runs later, as confidence was coming back, I did the same thing. Needless to say, that is part of learning, BUT...

2) The Arbor Coda is their full rocker system, but very stable at speed, a nice amount of dampening, great pop for a rockered board, and a board that I would buy now if I wasn't fully after a Banana Magic this year, and I am 4 years in. 

3) They have grip tech, which IMO, is better than NS vario grip. Some might disagree.

4) The board is a twin tip shape, but with a slight set back, which is going to be nice for someone learning, as most of your riding in the first year is going to be regular, before you start really exploring switch, and being a twin shape, this board is more than capable of riding switch.

Last - you can get this years model, which the only thing that is changing for next year is top sheet, for a nice discount, and your size should be available.

Overall, I'd recommend this board for all mountain riding over a true twin Proto everyday of the week. With a slight setback, you will be more comfortable early riding at higher speeds, and this board eats it up well even in the afternoon chop. But like I said, it's only a slight set back, and perfectly capable of switch. And the board, especially sized at a 153, is more than capable of riding park, and was a board I had no problem pressing.

That would be my pick for you. I love the Proto, don't get me wrong, but it is more of a freestyle board, than all mountain, and if you are like most people, charging the mountain and progressing to steeper stuff, you will appreciate that set back as someone learning versus a true twin with a centered stance.

Last, it is not a beginner board, but more forgiving than say a Proto. Just my thoughts.

http://www.rei.com/product/820000/a...-B972-E111-88CA-001B21631C34&mr:referralID=NA

You guys know by now I am not a spammer. Just trying to help someone out. REI has the 153 at 20% off, and the nice part about REI, say you don't like it, they have a no questions asked return policy. Meaning ride it, hate it for some reason (you won't), send it back, get a full refund.


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## jdang307 (Feb 6, 2011)

I would have mentioned the Coda, but Snowolf mentioned something about not wanting to recommend a full rocker so I just kept on with that theme.

The Coda is an awesome board, and very stable for a full rocker. I haven't ridden the proto but have the SL and that is just as capable IMO. The Coda felt a lot more flexible to me although there was a big time gap between the time I rode them so I wouldn't say that is entirely accurate.

The Coda does get beat up faster then the NS boards though that I can attest to in my limited sample. Not the topsheet but the bottom. Just cruising the groomers I came home and it looked like someone took 25 grit to a section of my base. I'm like, how does that happen?


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## buggravy (Feb 19, 2008)

Nolefan2011 said:


> I'm not sure why nobody has suggested an Arbor Coda, but I'll be the first.
> 
> 1) RC profile is not easy to learn as a beginner, and like someone else mentioned, you are going to take some really brutal falls. A few years back, I jumped on my first Lib Tech, a Jamie Lynn, which was naturally a pretty stiff board, but I certainly took a couple nasty falls at 40+ MPH that just jumped at me. Didn't know what had happened on my toe side until I had buried my shoulder into the hardpacked. 2 runs later, as confidence was coming back, I did the same thing. Needless to say, that is part of learning, BUT...


IMHO if you're going 40+ as a beginner you're in over your head, and can't really point the finger at the board. I jumped on the 08/09 SL-R at the beginning of my 2nd season and had no issues at all, and have had a pile of NS boards since. I stand behind the statement that they're really forgiving.

That said, the Coda is a solid suggestion as well, and since the door was opened for me to spam, I know where one can be picked up for a solid price. http://www.snowboardingforum.com/bu...pment/48686-fs-coda-rook-malavita-est-l1.html I'm the same weight as the OP and preferred the 155 over the 153 that I had last year, though that's obviously all personal preference.


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## Daggs (Apr 7, 2012)

If I were to buy the proto, do you know where I could pick up a 154? And seeing as most are sold out, should I just wait until 2013 model considering that I can't use it until this winter anyway.


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## Nolefan2011 (Mar 12, 2011)

I wasn't a beginner when I ate it. That's the point. 

I just think the OP needs to figure out whether he plans to play on the jump line all day, or progress his mountain riding. As someone who has ridden both boards, and 20+ others, I'd push this guy away from the Proto, and toward a directional twin. 

The Proto is a freestyle the mountain board, and a great jump line board, but if the poster wanted a board he'd be able to back bowls, steeps, and ride more aggressively at speed, I don't know why the push wouldn't be a directional twin. 

Want a Never Summer? Fine, an SL. Want a Lib Tech, fine, a TRS. A Proto for me is someone who has decided they are riding switch from Day 1, spinning, and using the whole moutain as a park. For a beginner, who is learning to get confident carving at speed, learning to jump, and wanting to handle steeps, why not a directional twin?

This from someone who prefers true twins and rode a T Rice and Ultra Fear last year. I evolved to liking that over 4 years of riding. But I have plenty of Friends who went the Raptor or Highlife direction as well, who decided they could give a shit about the park.

Therefore, do yourself a favor. If you are going to be riding mostly regular (or maybe you're goofy), and plan to do this 90% of the time, get yourself a directional twin, allowing the freedom to explore freestyle, but the setback to enjoy directional riding and carving at it's finest.


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## Daggs (Apr 7, 2012)

Why do you think that directional twins are better for carving as opposed to true twins? If you put someone on the two, blindfolded, would they be able to tell the difference?


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## Daggs (Apr 7, 2012)

And are you saying that learning to ride park would be detrimental to me while riding a proto ct?


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## Nolefan2011 (Mar 12, 2011)

Would you notice it blindfolded? Doesn't really matter since it's about feel and ride versus looks. You probably actually wouldn't notice it just looking at it. But first powder day, yeah, you'll notice a setback vs true twin. You will notice it charging as well. 

Again, just from my experience riding a lot of boards, if you are riding directionally 90% of the time, buy a board that is built for that. Leave yourself some wiggle room making it a directional twin. Therefore, it will ride switch, it will be fine spinning and landing switch, but still gives you performance upgrade riding regular.

I would buy the Proto if you plan on spending significant time in the park. If not, and you aren't going to be riding switch a lot, an SL / Coda would be better choices. Still more than capable in the park (and the Coda is just flat out fun everywhere), but with a slight set back that again, on powder and in steeps, you'll notice the difference. 

Part of it is knowing what you want to ride.


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## Daggs (Apr 7, 2012)

Ok. Any ideas on where I can order one online when I'm ready to? Most places seem to be sold out. Also how do so many people seem to have the 2013 model? I didn't even think they were available for sale. Not that I would get it...the only difference between the two years are the graphics and I think I like 2012's better. But I'm still curious...


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## Daggs (Apr 7, 2012)

But then again, I might look at the sl...


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## Nolefan2011 (Mar 12, 2011)

Questions: What do you want to ride more, powder and off piste, or groomers? How much time are you spending in the park? Is your goal to get to the double blacks first, or landing a 180 off a 20 ft kicker? Is it more important to be as good a switch rider as a regular rider, or more important to learn to burn up the mountain and get to solid carving technique first?

This should help. Most are a pick one answer.


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## Daggs (Apr 7, 2012)

Nolefan2011 said:


> Questions: What do you want to ride more, powder and off piste, or groomers? How much time are you spending in the park? Is your goal to get to the double blacks first, or landing a 180 off a 20 ft kicker? Is it more important to be as good a switch rider as a regular rider, or more important to learn to burn up the mountain and get to solid carving technique first?
> 
> This should help. Most are a pick one answer.


Groomers. I would like to get into the park. I want the two to coincide - as I advance slopes I want to be able to pull off bigger and bigger jumps. And I believe that, like in any sport, if you can only use one side of your body, you are only half of what you could be. So yes, switch is important to me.


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## Nolefan2011 (Mar 12, 2011)

Well, you sound like a candidate for the board. Go for it.

Wow, just googled the Poconos...was thinking AZ for some reason. PA? Get an Evo. Everything else's overkill. No bowls, no big mountain riding. Get something you can butter...you'll be bored fast, LOL


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## hktrdr (Apr 3, 2012)

Daggs said:


> Groomers. I would like to get into the park. I want the two to coincide - as I advance slopes I want to be able to pull off bigger and bigger jumps. And I believe that, like in any sport, if you can only use one side of your body, you are only half of what you could be. So yes, switch is important to me.


Also keep in mind, that your preferences and interests will change and evolve over time. Especially as you become a better rider and become interested in developing specific new skills.
I started off wanting to do groomers and kickers. Then one season I really got into ground tricks (something I had zero interest in before) - wound up buying a Skate Banana and buttered all over the mountain. Next season I got the powder bug (and board). And it goes on like that...

So my board advice is similar to what I said about bindings earlier - something middle-of the-road in terms of flex, pricing, etc. that allows you to do what you are interested in now but that is also multi-purpose enough to let you try other things later on.
Again, there are lots of choices most of them perfectly suitable and will not go wrong as long as you stick with quality brands
- Proto is certainly a good choice. So is the SL. Or the TRS. The Arbor Coda probably as well. 

In the future you might expand your quiver with more specialized gear - and may be sell your first board (much easier if it is a versatile all-mountain board) or make it your travel board (again, versatile board generally prepared for that - see the pattern?).


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## dreampow (Sep 26, 2011)

I now have a proto CT and love it. I mostly rode directional twins before the proto and while it does make carving easier once you get better you can carve really well on the proto. Just needs a bit more fore aft movement in the turn (something you'll get to later on).

Anyway my point is the proto won't significantly limit you in terms of carving and it is really fun for ground tricks and kickers and handles powder very well (up to about 40~50cm). 

I love to ride switch. I ride switch in powder and trees as well as on piste. This is where the true twin proto does better than any directional twin and its one of the reasons I went with it. I want to be able to ride anything both ways (I am not there yet but can ride all but very steep tree runs switch).

While you are still at the start I really recommend riding switch as soon as you can cruise greens without falling. 
I have friends who can come through the steep tree runs with me regular, but can't ride a blue piste switch.

While a directional twin is fine for riding switch a true twin is always better.

You won't find last years proto new so get the 2013 when it comes out. I would also go 154 for sure. 

Its a board you can grow into and enjoy for years.


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## eclipse1018 (Mar 1, 2012)

dreampow said:


> While a directional twin is fine for riding switch a true twin is always better.
> 
> 
> Its a board you can grow into and enjoy for years.


Quoting dreampow because points are always nice! 

Worry about the board but dont worry too much about the board! A solid foundation is key to good riding! 
Your foundation starts at your BOOTS!!
Make sure you got a good pair of boots that are comfortable, light weight, and LOCK your feet in place.. I mean really get in them and test them out.. jump in them to test shock absorption and lean forward in them to see how stiff they are and how well your heel stays in place! Bad fitting boots lead to leg cramps from using excessive force to maneuver your board usually from toeside maneuvers! Walking around the mountain also sucks in crap boots. I recommend K2 DARKOs for every kind of foot, mid-high flex and the harshmellow rocks and the heat mold fits my feet perfectly, also the DC judge is awesome for normal width feet and they feel lighter..

My setup: 
BOARD: 2012 Never Summer Evo 150 (sintered base is lighting fast compared to my old 155 ride)
BINDINGS: GNU PARK bindings (for the impatient/lazy) 
BOOTS: You guessed it! K2 DARKOS (because harshmellow rocks with neverseummers dampening technology!) I would describe this boot as a Comfortable Foot Condom!


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## eclipse1018 (Mar 1, 2012)

*Neversummer Boards*

Forgot to mention.. Most of the neversummer boards have blunted tips and the effective edges are longer as well so you will feel like you a riding a bigger board.. In theory you will be riding a bigger board than you purchased.. blunting takes material off the edges and reduces length whil extending effective edges does just that.. I went from a 155 ride machete to a 150 Never summer evo.. My evo handles better, is FASTER, presses easier.. does everything better despite being in a smaller package.. 
your debating whether to buy a 152 and 154.. At size 10 feet which i have also a 152 neversummer is perfectly fine.. and if you are planning to go into the park and progressing i would go for the 152.. smaller boards are easier to spin and maneuver! 
I Really have to emphasize this again! These boards are STUPID FAST.. even the small ones.. the sintered base on these things are amazing in slush/packed/pow.. thats the onlyreason i can think of as why it is labeled as not for beginners!


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## Daggs (Apr 7, 2012)

So, basically, there really is no concensus on the 152 v. 154 debate?


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## dreampow (Sep 26, 2011)

Chances are at 15 years old you will gain muscle in the next two years. 

Your feet could easily grow a size too.

For me the 154 is a no brainer. 

The 152 will be best for park ONLY, if you gain 10-20lbs it will be way too small IMO.

At 150lbs I would go 154 even if you weren't going to gain any weight which you probably are.

You might get to go to a bigger mountain and ride some powder (if you have the chance this is what snowboarding is all about IMO).

If you get in powder the 154 is what you want to be on.


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## Daggs (Apr 7, 2012)

Haha well I'm just about done any major growth spurts, which makes the decision harder. I'm just about to turn 15 but I could pass for 16 at 5'10" (and shaving every day). But yea, I assume that I will gain at least some more muscle if I ever get the motivation to use the decked out gym in the basement... Ok, let's assume I go with a 154. How will I know if it's too long for me once I ride it? Uncontrollable speed?


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## Daggs (Apr 7, 2012)

And my dad is a skier and my aunt owns a couple condos on peak 7 (or is it 8...) in breck that I could probably use to experience some powder during spring break. Unfortunately when I went there a few months ago it was pushing 60 Fahrenheit, so no powder.


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## dreampow (Sep 26, 2011)

Dude, it won't be too long.

I am 6ft and 175lbs and I ride a 157 proto. I used to ride a 165 board and while it was longer than I needed for most conditions it was manageable. 

At 150 you are bang in the sweet spot for the 154. Never summer themselves recommend it to people between 120 and 170lbs.

That puts you perfectly in the middle.

Its going to be fine. All you have to do now is wait for the winter.


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## hktrdr (Apr 3, 2012)

dreampow said:


> Dude, it won't be too long.
> 
> I am 6ft and 175lbs and I ride a 157 proto. I used to ride a 165 board and while it was longer than I needed for most conditions it was manageable.
> 
> ...


+1, 154 all the way. Lots of benefits (better in powder, better at speeds, maybe most importantly extra width at waist and tip/tail) without any real drawbacks (extra 2cm won't make much difference in handling at all).


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## jdang307 (Feb 6, 2011)

Daggs said:


> Haha well I'm just about done any major growth spurts, which makes the decision harder. I'm just about to turn 15 but I could pass for 16 at 5'10" (and shaving every day). But yea, I assume that I will gain at least some more muscle if I ever get the motivation to use the decked out gym in the basement... Ok, let's assume I go with a 154. How will I know if it's too long for me once I ride it? Uncontrollable speed?


154 man. I rode a Coda 153 and I'm 5'6" 140-145 and it was as nimble as I ever needed. I ride from 150-153 and could probably hop on a 154 no problem.

It might seem a little less nimble but you won't notice I bet. Especially as a beginner you can't feel the nuance's yet hell I can't.


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## eclipse1018 (Mar 1, 2012)

No.. im 160lbs on my 150evo at the the top of the scale on the neversummer weight chart and im perfectly good on it.. the 154 will have a less than notible change to its turning radius and weight/ swing weight/ all the boards are superfast so you wont notice too much difference in speed.. the 154 is larger so it will have more mass to help you float in powder the 152 will be easier to spin in the park.. eenie meenie minie moe!!!


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## dreampow (Sep 26, 2011)

Thats because the EVO is a park board. The proto can do park but its all mountain freestyle so they recommend a little bigger. 

I agree the 152 is doable, but the only reason to get it IMO is if you plan to mainly ride park and thats clearly not the case.

The 154 is better for all mountain riding and powder and importantly gives some room for growth (putting on weight) in the next few years.

As always with board length preference is huge, but in this case since your a beginner the smart move is to go with the best all round length rather than the 152 which will be more park oriented. 

Just my opinion.


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## jdang307 (Feb 6, 2011)

eclipse1018 said:


> No.. im 160lbs on my 150evo at the the top of the scale on the neversummer weight chart and im perfectly good on it.. the 154 will have a less than notible change to its turning radius and weight/ swing weight/ all the boards are superfast so you wont notice too much difference in speed.. the 154 is larger so it will have more mass to help you float in powder the 152 will be easier to spin in the park.. eenie meenie minie moe!!!


I rode a 150 evo earlier this season. Very fun but at speed it definitely started flapping. It was fine but if you want to haul ass it'll expose itself a little.


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## dreampow (Sep 26, 2011)

Snowolf said:


> For true carving which is the peak of free ride skill, a directional board is better than even a directional twin because it`s progressive side cut to enter turns more slowly with better control and the aft position of the rider allows the board to hold its edge through the bottom of the turn as a result of a little more weight on the tail. Fore-aft movements as we have discussed a lot in the instructors section allow a rider to carve any board very well but a directional board with a set back makes this even easier.
> 
> A directional twin is kind of the best of both worlds. The flex pattern and side cut are symmetrical so it rides switch extremely well but has a slightly setback stance to allow for better edge hold through the bottom of the turn when ridden directionally.


Just wondering about this, a directional board with a set back will be better in the second half of the carve as it automatically has more weight on the tail holding it steady.

As I understand it (and could well be wrong) before changing edges and initiating the next turn you need to shift your weight forward again and get it a little more over the front foot.

Does that mean that for changing edges and initiating turns, a true twin makes it easier to get your weight forward since your front foot is already a few centimeters further forward as compared to a directional twin with a setback?

Just wondering about such things as there is no powder in sight for 5 more months here.


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## Daggs (Apr 7, 2012)

Ok. I'm getting the 154. I found a website that sells the 2013 for prime price. And they have a 30 day return policy in case they screw me. Lol.


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## hktrdr (Apr 3, 2012)

Daggs said:


> Ok. I'm getting the 154. I found a website that sells the 2013 for prime price. And they have a 30 day return policy in case they screw me. Lol.


Which website are you buying from?


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## Nolefan2011 (Mar 12, 2011)

Dreampow, you've never ridden a directional twin? An SL / TRS / Coda for example? Most of the boards out there, not designed for the park, are directional twins or flat out directional.

I just bought a Heritage for this year, replacing my Optmistic for big mountain riding. It makes a GIANT difference over a twin. As much fun as I had on my Rice, when I was in Revelstoke this last year (I ride the 157 blunted), in that 2 foot powder, you go over the handle bars quite a bit by accident, just get slightly lazy with your back foot. While I didn't like the BSOD because of the lack of dampening in the chop, the board made miles difference on those steep bowls and shoots (ESPECIALLY at Kicking Horse). Because of the setback, it really takes some effort to sink the nose, and got over the handle bars.

When I am riding deeper powder, or the steeps (45-50 degree pitches), I 100% prefer a directional board like a Heritage. BTW, was down to a Heritage vs. Billy Goat, and ended up selecting the Heritage. Very excited to try it out. Have ridden a 155 which was too short for me, so this 158 should be perfect.


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## dreampow (Sep 26, 2011)

Sure I have, all the boards I owned before the proto were directional twins. I liked them a lot but I am enjoying the twin proto especially for switch. 

Here is me on my Volkl (directional twin)






As long as you slide the board forward to get your weight over the tail you can still carve really well on a proto. 

My question (to Snowolf mainly) was that the directional twin gives an advantage for getting weight over the tail when in a carve, but surely that means they are at a slight (albeit minimal) disadvantage when getting your weight over your front foot when changing edges and setting the new edge.

Just nitpicking really as there is no powder to ride.


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## dreampow (Sep 26, 2011)

Thanks for the in depth answer:thumbsup::thumbsup:.

My freeride board is a Volkl zenit and it has a slight setback, significantly softer nose than tail and the side cut is more pronounced towards the tail and shallower at the front. 

This board is now a (DIY) swallowtail so it should ride differently next year, but its a carving beast. Just a pleasure to carve.

On the proto it takes better technique, fore aft movement and effort, but it will still carve very well. Not quite as well as a directional board but not far off IMO. 

I do feel like being centered on the proto helps me get forward and use the front foot more in powder, but thats probably the rocker camber profile as much as anything else. Also no doubt it helps riding switch.

With all the nuances and different strengths of different designs I can see myself slowly building up a big quiver.


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## eclipse1018 (Mar 1, 2012)

dreampow said:


> This board is now a (DIY) swallowtail so it should ride differently next year, but its a carving beast. Just a pleasure to carve.QUOTE]
> 
> im very intrigued by this! i would love to see how it came out and if you notice any differences in lateral and torsional flex by modding it this way.. what did you do to the edges and how did you seal up the ends? please post a picture!


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## dreampow (Sep 26, 2011)

eclipse1018 said:


> dreampow said:
> 
> 
> > This board is now a (DIY) swallowtail so it should ride differently next year, but its a carving beast. Just a pleasure to carve.QUOTE]
> ...


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