# Going sackless into jumps



## nickwarrenn (Feb 11, 2011)

At the local hill, there are a couple of jumps in the line in the big park. The first one is about 6 feet high, with a 15 foot table (set-down.) I can hit it confidently, with enough speed to clear the knuckle. Last "pow" day (which turned into wet sticky snow), I ended up hiking out of the park just to get enough speed to hit it.


The second jump is built on this platform, expect it now takes up the whole thing, and is about 15 feet tall. The lip is in the same place as the smaller one. It really pushes you high. 

Anyway, my problem is building the confidence to hit it. Wondering how to really go sackless at it. I know I have the skill to hit it, and my skier friend said he was hitting it flawlessly tonight. 


What do?


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## nickwarrenn (Feb 11, 2011)

Whoops, forgot pic.


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## poutanen (Dec 22, 2011)

For me some jumps just aren't constructed right, and you could hurt yourself. That said nothing's worse than not going hard enough and landing on the lip.

Get yourself psyched up for it, hit it hard, and tell yourself you're going to land it. Even if you don't, landing funny on the down ramp doesn't hurt much.

Now I need to take my own advice cause I'm a pussy when I'm staring at a launch ramp that looks like a wall! :laugh:


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## slyder (Jan 18, 2010)

A big gap jump that is really kicky or as you say "pushes you really high" you have to pay very close attention to body position. I did this kind of jump this season, first time for me too. You really need proper technique on approach and take off. As you are in the air you need to shift your body weight downward towards the landing. So you don't land in the back seat or ass for easy terms. 

Is it the jump in the pic with the "X". If so that looks nasty as there looks like a hump after the transition of the take off ???


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## Argo (Feb 25, 2010)

If its the one with the signs blocking it. That's a small jump in a kiddie park up here. My fat ass hits those.... just go for it. If you knuckle it then you know to go faster next time.


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## Argo (Feb 25, 2010)

You guys need a new park crew. That park is tore up.


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## slyder (Jan 18, 2010)

Argo said:


> You guys need a new park crew. That park is tore up.


Hell thats better than my park....:dunno:

Argo you West coast guys really don't know how good you have it


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## nickwarrenn (Feb 11, 2011)

Argo said:


> If its the one with the signs blocking it. That's a small jump in a kiddie park up here. My fat ass hits those.... just go for it. If you knuckle it then you know to go faster next time.


It isn't that jump, just the platform that it is currently built on. It's hell of a lot bigger, wish I had a picture of it. Park crew is better than last year...it was bad.


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## Argo (Feb 25, 2010)

Edit.. Link dont work

This link should take you to a picture of the top 1/3 of golden peak park.... This is in vail... Brecks parks are twice as good. Our park crews are there constantly all day riding and fixing shit... Cats on standby


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## Jon T (Mar 19, 2010)

I would wait for your skier buddy and follow him off the jump, or ask someone else who is hitting the jump. After a couple knee surgeries, I end up following a lot of people off jumps for the first time. Otherwise speed check it until you can see where you are going to land. Confidence is critical, wait till you are confident and then stomp it all day everyday! Jon T


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## dkzach (Jun 30, 2011)

F*** B***** GET MONEY

just go for it! 
listen to some songs that inspire you. none of that top 40 crap. and wait for the most epic moment. then drop. 

nuff said.

meditating works too. like visualize yourself doing it all day! and watch a ton of snowboarding videos. GET PUMPED. 

also if your not really feeling it keep your mind blank. think of nothing. and dont be a pantie. 

With concerns to speed either watch people or straight line XD. thats honestly what I do if you over shoot you can say you got huge air! or go really slow and fall slightly onto the knuckle and you will know the speed. 

one tip also is to think " You want to do it, you know its fun, so why dont you? "


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## slyder (Jan 18, 2010)

Landing your first big jump, those are big to me, nothing like stomping right center one the landing, clearing that knuckle and riding away clean.

I still have clear vision of this in my mind and it's been about a month since I nailed mine!!!!!!


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## Extremo (Nov 6, 2008)

That's a sorry looking park. 

When I need to find the speed to clear a jump I ride along side it at the speed I would need. Carry speed in, look at the jump as you ride by over the knuckle. You'll be able to tell if it's too much or not enough. Do it a few times and you'll get the feeling. After that it's all feel.


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## slyder (Jan 18, 2010)

Snowolf said:


> I have a problem with kickers that have a lot of woo and send you very high. I can easily clear a 20 foot table if the kicker is built with a flatter trajectory. On some of these jumps, in order to get 20 feet of forward distance the godamn things launch you 20 feet in the air too. I think you might just be hearing your own survival instinct telling you, "whoa, I am not ready for this yet". Nothing wrong with listening to that voice a little as long as you don`t quit pushing the envelope and scaring yourself a little each day.


" Hesitation do to self preservation "


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## snowklinger (Aug 30, 2011)

Snowolf said:


> I have a problem with kickers that have a lot of woo and send you very high. I can easily clear a 20 foot table if the kicker is built with a flatter trajectory. On some of these jumps, in order to get 20 feet of forward distance the godamn things launch you 20 feet in the air too. I think you might just be hearing your own survival instinct telling you, "whoa, I am not ready for this yet". Nothing wrong with listening to that voice a little as long as you don`t quit pushing the envelope and scaring yourself a little each day.


I agree with you completely, however I think it's the old man in us telling these things as well. Pushing for progression on kickers is important to me and I am starting to learn that these "lippy" kickers are typical in all the good parks. Also even though the flatter trajectory feels more comfortable, it really is not as much safer as it feels (on those flatter jumps, you are dealing with more linear speed which changes the nature of an accident). Most good 20 footers you have bled so much speed by the time you actually are airborne that it really is more of a pop up so that you have time to throw your steeze. 

*the above is a combination of limited experience, but between Copper, Breck, Keystone, A-Basin, Loveland, Echo and Winter Park, I have only seen 2 jumps that have that nice long comfy tragectory. They were at WP and thats like 2 out of 50 kickers.

The hardest thing is to feel that pressure in your front foot as you approach the lip and not let it put you in the back seat, and also maintain a comfortable riding position through the air. I still struggle with it, thank god for riding quarterpipe alot as a skater, but yea.

Once you start sending em, they feel great!


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## BurtonAvenger (Aug 14, 2007)

Argo said:


> If its the one with the signs blocking it. That's a small jump in a kiddie park up here. My fat ass hits those.... just go for it. If you knuckle it then you know to go faster next time.





Argo said:


> You guys need a new park crew. That park is tore up.


That jump is tiny and pathetic. From what you're describing it sounds like a slight step over. If you want to gauge speed watch people then do a practice run and slip the lip and go over the back side. You'll scrub all your speed on the end of the lip but get an idea of what you need. Personally though a park that shitty I just walk away that thing looks like fucking Echo out here and I wouldn't hit their jumps if you paid me.


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## ThunderChunky (Oct 1, 2011)

Ya, I thought my park's jumps were bad. But that...that is disgusting.


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## nickwarrenn (Feb 11, 2011)

Extremo said:


> That's a sorry looking park.


It is a smaller size park, but once it gets going it's pretty nice.




BurtonAvenger said:


> That jump is tiny and pathetic. From what you're describing it sounds like a slight step over. If you want to gauge speed watch people then do a practice run and slip the lip and go over the back side. You'll scrub all your speed on the end of the lip but get an idea of what you need. Personally though a park that shitty I just walk away that thing looks like fucking Echo out here and I wouldn't hit their jumps if you paid me.


THAT ISN'T THE JUMP IN QUESTION. That's just the platform it is currently built on. With such a shitty snowfall and temps this year, they're doing the best they can with what they have. The jump in question is as wide as the whole platform, and a hell of a lot bigger. 



ThunderChunky said:


> Ya, I thought my park's jumps were bad. But that...that is disgusting.


That isn't one of our real jumps, that's the start of season-lacking snow-built something-decided it was dumb and closed it type of jump. 


Here is a picture of one of our actual jumps to show it isn't all shit. This also happens to be the smaller one in the line I want to hit, the easier one.


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## AlexS (Feb 12, 2010)

Show the actual jump?


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## nickwarrenn (Feb 11, 2011)

Decided I needed to make another post, the last one was too negative. 

I hit it.

I sat at the top for a good 3ish minutes getting myself pumped up, and then decided -fuck it, let's just do it, knuckle it, and roll over. I hit the first one, straight airing the whole day, and landed deep because I forgot to speedcheck and straightlined it. I scrubbed a bunch of speed, and then went for the second one. I popped off it, made sure I wasn't going to land in the back seat, tucked up, and ended up landing backfoot on the knuckle, and didn't fall, but just took the blow, and pretty much sat in between my knees. 
Second time I hit it, there was no hesitation at the top, although I hit the knuckle again.
Third time I hit it, there was no hesitation, and I landed nice and deep in it, rode off with a smile.



Now, I just need to get the confidence to do more than shifties and grabs off bigger jumps.


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## nickwarrenn (Feb 11, 2011)

AlexS said:


> Show the actual jump?


I wish I could, although I can't find one anywhere on the hill's flicker. Here is the photosteam if you want to look for it, it's a "XL" jump in the line of two. Flickr: ski.wentworth's Photostream

I meant to take a picture today, but I forgot.


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## AlexS (Feb 12, 2010)

Well, if I were you I'd hit the jump if you see others hitting the jump. As others have advised watch the speed other people are hitting the jump and where they're dropping, how many speedchecks etc. Wear a helmet


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## BurtonAvenger (Aug 14, 2007)

nickwarrenn said:


> THAT ISN'T THE JUMP IN QUESTION. That's just the platform it is currently built on. With such a shitty snowfall and temps this year, they're doing the best they can with what they have. The jump in question is as wide as the whole platform, and a hell of a lot bigger.


Did I say that was the jump I said THAT jump was pathetic and then went on to describe what you're hitting. Reading comprehension 101 look into!


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## nickwarrenn (Feb 11, 2011)

BurtonAvenger said:


> Did I say that was the jump I said THAT jump was pathetic and then went on to describe what you're hitting. Reading comprehension 101 look into!


Then you should of used a paragraph break, or said "The jump in the picture you posted." "THAT" can refer to anything, no way for me to know what the hell you're talking about unless you tell me in some description. Besides the first sentence of your post, it was all about the one I wanted to hit, so I figured that "that" was also referring to the one I wanted to hit. No way for me to know otherwise. Writing descriptively 101 look into!


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## BurtonAvenger (Aug 14, 2007)

nickwarrenn said:


> Then you should of used a paragraph break, or said "The jump in the picture you posted." "THAT" can refer to anything, no way for me to know what the hell you're talking about unless you tell me in some description. Besides the first sentence of your post, it was all about the one I wanted to hit, so I figured that "that" was also referring to the one I wanted to hit. No way for me to know otherwise. Writing descriptively 101 look into!


Aww is someone upset their mental prowess has been challenged after admitting that your testicles are the size of a gnats because you can't hit a fucking 5 foot jump. Maybe you shouldn't be in the park if you're scared of something 5 years out here would hit. Didn't realize I would have to go into such great detail to someone that can't even describe what the actual feature looks like or even post a picture of. Maybe you shouldn't be in the park there might be a ride on box that freaks you out.


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## poutanen (Dec 22, 2011)

nickwarrenn said:


> Then you *should of* used a paragraph break, ...


Not that I'm trying to stir the pot, but I think you meant to say Should've or Should Have.  Sorry, "should of" is just my pet peeve! :cheeky4:


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## Argo (Feb 25, 2010)

here are some pictures of the upper part of Golden Peak, one of the parks on Vail mtn. There are two other beginner parks on the other side of the mountain by lionshead village. They have 2-3 park crew that are in the parks on lionshead side all day long constantly raking features and riding the park to make sure it is ridable. Golden peak has cats on standby and 3 guys there all day long.....


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## Argo (Feb 25, 2010)




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## nickwarrenn (Feb 11, 2011)

Argo said:


> here are some pictures of the upper part of Golden Peak, one of the parks on Vail mtn. There are two other beginner parks on the other side of the mountain by lionshead village. They have 2-3 park crew that are in the parks on lionshead side all day long constantly raking features and riding the park to make sure it is ridable. Golden peak has cats on standby and 3 guys there all day long.....


Very, very jealous.


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## Argo (Feb 25, 2010)




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## Argo (Feb 25, 2010)

so far my 12 year old can hit everything under 45' on jumps and all but the biggest rails/walls, mainly because of the height they have to pop/ollie up onto them. I dont have pictures of the biggest jumps on the downside of the park, these are from their facebook page......

These pictures are why people up here think pictures like the one you showed suck. Brecks parks is very nice also. The park in vail this year is alot better than last year and from what I understand it has sucked nutz for the prior 4-6 years because Vail Resorts didnt want to put the money in it. This year they hired quite a bit more park crew and park management. Even on the shittiest day the vail parks would not look like the OP's park.....


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## slyder (Jan 18, 2010)

Those are so insane!!!! I can't riding some of those features. That rail must be 10' high.

My local hill doesn't know what a park crew is. They started off building nice stuff for our area *nothing like above* but never maintained any of it.

I truly think they just take everyone's ticket money and that is it. Park is so bottom of the concern list for my hill. The more tour buses they can bring in the better, I feel is there motto.


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## Argo (Feb 25, 2010)

believe me, the parks are low on the list for Vail also..... They are not known for their park but this is what you get when you come to the mtns. 

As for rider quality like what has been discussed numberous times on the forum.... The instructors here can do very difficult and technical tricks on all of the features in the park. The guy that instructs snowboarding for my sons weekend program can do a double cork 12 or double backflip rodeo on almost any jump including natural hits.... the level of riding out here is incredible. you can youtube search him or the freestyle instruction team up here, they are incredible... I cant wait to see what my son learns next year in their 6 day a week, 830am-2pm, 9 month program... his goal is to ride boarder cross and slopestyle in competition next year.


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## nickwarrenn (Feb 11, 2011)

Argo said:


> 6 day a week, 830am-2pm, 9 month program...


Holy shit, that is a lot of riding. How does he go to school in conjunction with that? As for out here, all I see is most of the instructors pulling 3's and boardslides on most stuff, not hitting a lot.

At least my boardercross coach is good, he was involved with the 2010 Vancouver Olympic course, and the 815Vfeet hill maintains a boardercross track for the whole 3 month season...


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## Argo (Feb 25, 2010)

I homeschool him. They also have academies the can go to after riding. He is on the mountain every day right now and has 100 days this season so far and will end up with 160 by mid July.... Maybe more


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## nickwarrenn (Feb 11, 2011)

So when should I be expecting to see his name in the Olympics?


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## Argo (Feb 25, 2010)

nickwarrenn said:


> So when should I be expecting to see his name in the Olympics?


Dunno... But if he does it will be because he loves it. I don't push him for any of it, he wakes up on his own to catch the in town bus and get on the first chair prett much every day.....


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## tlake2568 (Dec 22, 2011)

Argo,

Your son is awesome in our books!


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## SnowMotion (Oct 8, 2010)

A couple things that help me when charging a booter are remember your not really afraid of falling im sure you do it all the time even on the first jump. What you are really afraid of is your board not hitting the ground first. So get it in your head that your just going to do a sweet straight air put your board down and it will be like every jump you ever hit. Two, Bigger jumps are all about speed so def look for someone your size riding into the jump if he/she does three turns and knuckles then do two turns. But never speed check unless you absolutely know you have way to much speed. About 15-20 feet away from the kicker with your speed right you should just straight line it! Once you make this commitment to hit it your nerves will calm b/c you are going to hit it win or loose so your mind will put more thought into doing it right instead of wether or not you should do it.


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## jjz (Feb 14, 2012)

Lol, im from ontario, lol small place in toronto where the "mountains: have about 700 feet of vertical and the parks are nicer than that. Then again, with 700 or less vertical what other reason is there to drive for 3 hours.


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## poutanen (Dec 22, 2011)

jjz said:


> Lol, im from ontario, lol small place in toronto where the "mountains: have about 700 feet of vertical and the parks are nicer than that. Then again, with 700 or less vertical what other reason is there to drive for 3 hours.


I basically grew up riding Blue Mountain. First hill I boarded at was snow valley back in 1992. Ontario has a lot of people relatively close to the hills, so they have lots and lots of money for good parks. I remember hitting the 1/4 pipe and superpipe at Blue Mountain in the mid-90's and launching off some of the great jumps back then. Saw a guy break his board in half landing one. Plus there's a park chair which is great.

They honestly put the parks of the Canadian rockies to shame, but then again the entire mountain is a park in the rockies! :cheeky4:


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## jdang307 (Feb 6, 2011)

BurtonAvenger said:


> Aww is someone upset their mental prowess has been challenged after admitting that your testicles are the size of a gnats because you *can't hit a fucking 5 foot jump.* Maybe you shouldn't be in the park if you're scared of something 5 years out here would hit. Didn't realize I would have to go into such great detail to someone that can't even describe what the actual feature looks like or even post a picture of. Maybe you shouldn't be in the park there *might be a ride on box that freaks* you out.


Hey I resemble those remarks! I just conquered those last weekend :laugh:

No idea why, the fucking box scares me. I should have hit them instead of reading about them (don't edge, watch your elbows, etc. etc.). But rode it and said, wtf, these are easy. Just don't fucking turn!

Im not sure how to measure jumps though. Is it how high, or how long? I think they were taller than 5 feet though. It seemed that way when I was in the air!


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## IdahoFreshies (Jul 9, 2011)

Argo said:


>


you dirty mother fucker. the one thing i dont have in this state is a bangin park set up. im jelly.


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## Whitey161 (Mar 24, 2011)

Reading this post angered me. Seriously why have you got people coming here to comment and slag this guy off because he doesnt hit these huge booters. 

WTF is snowboarding about? to me its geting out there and having fun, this goes alongside pushing yourself and YOUR ability. He wants some advice on hitting a larger kicker than he has done before. What is this 'my jump is bigger than yours?'.

As for my advice i hit the largest kicker i've ever done for the first time in tignes 3 weeks ago. Was on the red run, about 7 ft high and 15ish ft flat-top. Much bigger than anything i've hit before. Scared me poopless but you just gotta overcome that fear, have confidence in your ability and hit it.

Sounds like you did it so props to you, progress at a rate you're confortable with and have fun


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## Cycle4Fun (Feb 22, 2012)

Am I the only one that every time they read the title of the thread immediately thinks, "What happened to that man's sack?" and "What did he do off the jump to lose it?


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## slyder (Jan 18, 2010)

Cycle4Fun said:


> Am I the only one that every time they read the title of the thread immediately thinks, "What happened to that man's sack?" and "What did he do off the jump to lose it?


yep!!! I never think about another mans sack so YES you are the only one


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## uh oh a virus 2 (Sep 1, 2011)

Argo said:


>


I need new pants.


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