# Crunch time. Northwave? Stiff boots for freestyle? Final gear question of the year fr



## LA Forever (Apr 2, 2013)

My girlfriend and her brother both use Northwave boots and they love it. The lace system doesn't get loose after riding and that's what sold them on it.


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## radiomuse210 (Sep 5, 2014)

Too bad those TM-twos are the wrong size because they are one great boot.


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## SAVETHISNOOB (Feb 29, 2012)

LA Forever said:


> My girlfriend and her brother both use Northwave boots and they love it. The lace system doesn't get loose after riding and that's what sold them on it.


Which ones has he got? I need opinions on legend vs decade but no one talks much about them. 



radiomuse210 said:


> Too bad those TM-twos are the wrong size because they are one great boot.


I could get the size up ordered if they're definately suitable to my riding style? Not keen on trad laces in terms of fiddliness

Gotta decide today in the next few hours so opinions needed ASAP


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## hardasacatshead (Aug 21, 2013)

I wear Decade SLs and I really like them, I'm on my second pair. They're pretty stiff, nice and responsive and comfy (for my foot anyway). I've tried a bunch of others and keep coming back to them. I say go for it if they fit you well.


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## SAVETHISNOOB (Feb 29, 2012)

hardasacatshead said:


> I wear Decade SLs and I really like them, I'm on my second pair. They're pretty stiff, nice and responsive and comfy (for my foot anyway). I've tried a bunch of others and keep coming back to them. I say go for it if they fit you well.


Nice. What made you go decade over legend? And you do much freestyle with them?
I'm reading that they are equally as stiff as the ion...


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## hardasacatshead (Aug 21, 2013)

My riding is more oriented to all mountain/freeride so stiffer boots work better for me, I also prefer in general to feel a bit more locked in. In saying that, I hit the park at times too and don't have any dramas falling on my face just like the guys next to me in soft boots. Either way you'll be fine, I just like the responsiveness of stiffer boots.


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## SAVETHISNOOB (Feb 29, 2012)

hardasacatshead said:


> My riding is more oriented to all mountain/freeride so stiffer boots work better for me, I also prefer in general to feel a bit more locked in. In saying that, I hit the park at times too and don't have any dramas falling on my face just like the guys next to me in soft boots. Either way you'll be fine, I just like the responsiveness of stiffer boots.


Ah ok. In this case I could just stick with the ions? Same stiffness. I'll maybe wear them for an hour and see if theyre still comfortable. 

Anyone have the ions and freestyle plenty?


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## Ravaging Rami (Mar 11, 2014)

I like the ions. A little stiffer, so more response in carves and I can press just fine in them with cartel bindings on my board. I don't do rails, but they absorb landings from jumps really well.


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## radiomuse210 (Sep 5, 2014)

SAVETHISNOOB said:


> Ah ok. In this case I could just stick with the ions? Same stiffness. I'll maybe wear them for an hour and see if theyre still comfortable.
> 
> Anyone have the ions and freestyle plenty?


Keep in mind that stiffness levels may vary among brands. One brands 7 might feel stiffer than another brands 7.

I have had the best time with 32 boots and TM-Two's are pretty great. Quite a lot of people on this forum have/had those boots and say they really like them. Traditional laces might need more adjustment in the beginning, but once you dial it in, you'll only have to tighten, tie, and go. For me personally, if I find a boot that is perfect for what I want to do, the lacing system isn't going to be the make or break feature. I have TMs and the Binary Boa. Binarys are a lil softer. The TMs are stiffer but don't feel like they restrict any flexing when I need it. Over time boots will soften. I can do anything in either pair of boots. I stepped up to these ones from the very soft entry level 32 Groomers and the difference is out of this world. No more mush boot when I'm pushing it hard.


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## SAVETHISNOOB (Feb 29, 2012)

Ravaging Rami said:


> I like the ions. A little stiffer, so more response in carves and I can press just fine in them with cartel bindings on my board. I don't do rails, but they absorb landings from jumps really well.


Yeah I mainly jump in the park but do dabble in rails too... In all honesty do you reckon the ion is too stiff for me?
I'm loving the fit but doubting the stiffness and price. 

Tm-twos don't look as good quality but do save me $168. May be more freestyle focused but trad laces 

Northwaves are somewhere in the middle.


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## radiomuse210 (Sep 5, 2014)

SAVETHISNOOB said:


> Yeah I mainly jump in the park but do dabble in rails too... In all honesty do you reckon the ion is too stiff for me?
> I'm loving the fit but doubting the stiffness and price.
> 
> Tm-twos don't look as good quality but do save me $168. May be more freestyle focused but trad laces
> ...


I'm not suggesting I know which boot is right for you - only you can figure that out. BUT I wouldn't turn down a boot that might be the right one because of traditional laces. That's just me though. I've never had problems with trad laces loosening or not being able to get them tight enough. Again, that's been my experience. And 32s have lasted me over many seasons...even those Groomers I mentioned. Comfy, warm, and fit my foot great. I always try on other brands just to see if anything pops out at me, but it always goes back to 32 for me. Do a forum search on the brands you're looking at.

Here's a good one:

http://www.snowboardingforum.com/general-equipment-reviews/95337-32-lashed-tm-two-built-tough.html


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## SAVETHISNOOB (Feb 29, 2012)

radiomuse210 said:


> I'm not suggesting I know which boot is right for you - only you can figure that out. BUT I wouldn't turn down a boot that might be the right one because of traditional laces. That's just me though. I've never had problems with trad laces loosening or not being able to get them tight enough. Again, that's been my experience. And 32s have lasted me over many seasons...even those Groomers I mentioned. Comfy, warm, and fit my foot great. I always try on other brands just to see if anything pops out at me, but it always goes back to 32 for me. Do a forum search on the brands you're looking at.
> 
> Here's a good one:
> http://www.snowboardingforum.com/general-equipment-reviews/95337-32-lashed-tm-two-built-tough.html


Yah I've had a read around and the tm-two does get a lot of positive rep... And more with freestyle riders too than the ions which makes me think they may be a better all mountain boot. 
I've seen that one but the OP "snowklinger" is a huge 32 fanboy. They should be paying him for publicity to be honest!

If I'm honest the ion fits better out of the box but it does feel like a machine. Very stiff. 
Did your tm-two turn to mush? I've had lashed and they were suuuuper soft after only a week or so. 

Anyone know a way of testing boots out in the house like carpet boarding? And tests for flex and heel hold?


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## radiomuse210 (Sep 5, 2014)

I haven't had them for long enough to know if they get mushy. The groomers were soft to begin with and they actually held up for a while. I think the TMs will fall apart before they get "mushy". 
You might as well call me a 32 fangirl too because I love them. Like I said, I try other boots, but 32 is just the bees knees for me. It all goes back to fit though. It would be nice if you had the right size TMs to compare the ions to.


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## SAVETHISNOOB (Feb 29, 2012)

radiomuse210 said:


> I haven't had them for long enough to know if they get mushy. The groomers were soft to begin with and they actually held up for a while. I think the TMs will fall apart before they get "mushy".
> You might as well call me a 32 fangirl too because I love them. Like I said, I try other boots, but 32 is just the bees knees for me. It all goes back to fit though. It would be nice if you had the right size TMs to compare the ions to.


Yeah... I think probably the tm-two fits the description better. Ion wins on reduced footprint and lacing but tm-two wins on flex and being more freestyle orientated (and price!). 
I'm going to wear the ions for an hour tomorrow and unless they feel like heaven on my feet both pairs can go back and i'll order the size up tm-two. 

Failing that it'll have to be northwave. Not keen on the burton ruler at all.


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

TM2 will handle everything you said with no problems. Unless you like really soft boots or really stiff... the TM2 don't go too far off the med-stiff range. I wouldnt use them if ALL i did was rails or bunny hills.

Ions may have more technology, but more quality is difficult to know without trying. TM2's are really simple boots that work well.

I'm yet to find someone who's tried them and not liked them. In fact, more than a few people wearing TM2's when they see mine, comment on how much they like em.

BTW the TM2 feel stiffer when riding... the articulated cuff lets you walk around and test-flex ok, but once strapped in they stiffen up a bit. Probably the Ions too.


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## SAVETHISNOOB (Feb 29, 2012)

F1EA said:


> TM2 will handle everything you said with no problems. Unless you like really soft boots or really stiff... the TM2 don't go too far off the med-stiff range. I wouldnt use them if ALL i did was rails or bunny hills.
> 
> Ions may have more technology, but more quality is difficult to know without trying. TM2's are really simple boots that work well.
> 
> ...


"I wouldnt use them if ALL i did was rails or bunny hills." 
What ya mean? What sort of riding would you use them for? 

To be honest I'm pretty sold on the tm-twos. I went to a freestyle night (in a snowdome) in my old Northwaves today and it made me realise a proper stiff boot like the ion is a massive jump from my boots. It would likely be too unforgiving. 

Think the ion would be for me if I decided to move away from freestyle which I won't be doing in the near future...


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## radiomuse210 (Sep 5, 2014)

SAVETHISNOOB said:


> "I wouldnt use them if ALL i did was rails or bunny hills."
> What ya mean? What sort of riding would you use them for?
> 
> To be honest I'm pretty sold on the tm-twos. I went to a freestyle night (in a snowdome) in my old Northwaves today and it made me realise a proper stiff boot like the ion is a massive jump from my boots. It would likely be too unforgiving.
> ...


I think he's saying that if you JUST did rails and easy bunny hill stuff, then they are probably too stiff. If you like to do some freestyle as well as cruise the mountain, these are it. An all-around good boot that's not for ALL freestyle and not for ALL hard charging steeps. If you do all freestyle, it might be better to go for a little softer. But boots soften over time...so if a boot feels a little stiff in the beginning, once they break in they are usually good to go. Plus you want some support on landings. I agree with everything he said. Before I stuck with the 32 boots, I was looking at Burton Felix...a lil stiffer and with more tech and features (like a snow gusset and foil heat thingy inside) - but it came down to getting a boot that would be comfy and durable, and also fit the kind of riding I do. I agree about the articulated cuff - they are super nice to walk around in (even better than my softer 32 Groomers, which didn't have the cuff) but step it up when you strap in. I still need to mold the liners though...I never molded the Groomer liners and they ended up molding to my foot over time. But I think I want to go ahead and get em done to really kick these puppies into high gear.

Keep in mind that plenty of people do freestyle in stiffer boots like the Ions...but I would imagine you would lose some forgiveness and flex. BTW I mostly ride some freestyle, some cruising groomers


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## SAVETHISNOOB (Feb 29, 2012)

radiomuse210 said:


> SAVETHISNOOB said:
> 
> 
> > "I wouldnt use them if ALL i did was rails or bunny hills."
> ...


Do you need to pay to have that done or going back to the store you bought from?

Also, any problems with lack of grip on the soles or cold feet?


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## radiomuse210 (Sep 5, 2014)

They will most likely do it for free at the store you bought it from. There are some DIY methods, but I would suggest getting it done at the store to avoid any mishaps.

No cold feet. When I was looking at the Burton Felix boots, I thought the foil heat reflector was interesting...but then I remembered that my feet are never cold. And I don't want my boot to be an oven in spring conditions. It's not like it feels like I have a heat pack in there. They are just normal. And I've honestly never thought about how grippy the soles are. That might be because I've never had any issues with sliding or slipping. We get some icy conditions on the east coast with the melting during the day/freezing at night cycle, and I've gone through some slick parking lots, and I've never had an issue. Can walk around the snow and up and down hills just fine. But I've also never thought "damn I could walk up a completely vertical slope with these things!" because I just never think about it. Let's just say I've never felt insecure about walking through any conditions I've been in even on hills (snow and slope hills or icy/snowy/slushy parking lot hills), so it never crosses my mind.


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## SAVETHISNOOB (Feb 29, 2012)

radiomuse210 said:


> They will most likely do it for free at the store you bought it from. There are some DIY methods, but I would suggest getting it done at the store to avoid any mishaps.
> 
> No cold feet. When I was looking at the Burton Felix boots, I thought the foil heat reflector was interesting...but then I remembered that my feet are never cold. And I don't want my boot to be an oven in spring conditions. It's not like it feels like I have a heat pack in there. They are just normal. And I've honestly never thought about how grippy the soles are. That might be because I've never had any issues with sliding or slipping. We get some icy conditions on the east coast with the melting during the day/freezing at night cycle, and I've gone through some slick parking lots, and I've never had an issue. Can walk around the snow and up and down hills just fine. But I've also never thought "damn I could walk up a completely vertical slope with these things!" because I just never think about it. Let's just say I've never felt insecure about walking through any conditions I've been in even on hills (snow and slope hills or icy/snowy/slushy parking lot hills), so it never crosses my mind.


Yeah that makes sense. I'll have to order online though so no availability of heat moulding... might try the rice sock method

Anyone know if there's any difference/step up between last years model and this years model?
Think I'm going for the tm-two but can save a fair amount by getting last years (2014).


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

You're giving this way too much thought and asking too many questions to make people decide for you. If the boot fits well and it is reasonably at the stiffness level you'd like... You'll be fine. Be it 2014, 2015, Ion, Northwave...

To me heat-molding is a waste. Unless you are always in tip-top shape and need your boots to feel perfectly broken-in to bust a 9- double cork from the first try or you only ride on a trip 4 days a yr and you need the boots to fit perfectly right away... heat molding makes very little difference. The liner will gradually mold to your feet in a few days' worth... in that time YOU (and most people) will probably still be simply cruising down whatever is available on the opening week of the season and taking a break every couple runs from leg burn.


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## SAVETHISNOOB (Feb 29, 2012)

F1EA said:


> You're giving this way too much thought and asking too many questions to make people decide for you. If the boot fits well and it is reasonably at the stiffness level you'd like... You'll be fine. Be it 2014, 2015, Ion, Northwave...
> 
> To me heat-molding is a waste. Unless you are always in tip-top shape and need your boots to feel perfectly broken-in to bust a 9- double cork from the first try or you only ride on a trip 4 days a yr and you need the boots to fit perfectly right away... heat molding makes very little difference. The liner will gradually mold to your feet in a few days' worth... in that time YOU (and most people) will probably still be simply cruising down whatever is available on the opening week of the season and taking a break every couple runs from leg burn.


I know I know. But I'm a bit OCD with gear and hate the idea of buyers remorse. These questions help me get the best product I can which is what we all want at the end of the day. 
For example I know I'm getting the tm-two now but why not ask if the 2015 is any improvement on the 2014 (a question I'm still wondering btw?!?  ). 


Other than that, point taken. I think this gives me/us something to do whilst waiting for our favourite weather


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## JetLife (Mar 9, 2013)

Just picked up some northwave legend sl's this weekend. Super comfy yet stiff enough for freeride. They fit better than any other boot I've had as I've got a narrow heel and like no arch (I should probably get an insole). Also was sold on the upper and lower separation so I can loosen the top when I go into the park :dance1:


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## radiomuse210 (Sep 5, 2014)

SAVETHISNOOB said:


> I know I know. But I'm a bit OCD with gear and hate the idea of buyers remorse. These questions help me get the best product I can which is what we all want at the end of the day.
> For example I know I'm getting the tm-two now but why not ask if the 2015 is any improvement on the 2014 (a question I'm still wondering btw?!?  ).
> 
> 
> Other than that, point taken. I think this gives me/us something to do whilst waiting for our favourite weather


I think you'll be fine with 2014. It's not like they added wings or anything. All my gear except my board is from the year before. k:


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## SAVETHISNOOB (Feb 29, 2012)

JetLife said:


> Just picked up some northwave legend sl's this weekend. Super comfy yet stiff enough for freeride. They fit better than any other boot I've had as I've got a narrow heel and like no arch (I should probably get an insole). Also was sold on the upper and lower separation so I can loosen the top when I go into the park


Nice. What made you go legends over decades? And did you find they fit true to size? 
I'm now thinking I'll be getting the decades just deciding whether to go with 9 (my shoe size and previous pair) or go 8.5 for a "performance fit". 

Oh and insoles sounds like a good idea for your feet!


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## SAVETHISNOOB (Feb 29, 2012)

radiomuse210 said:


> SAVETHISNOOB said:
> 
> 
> > I know I know. But I'm a bit OCD with gear and hate the idea of buyers remorse. These questions help me get the best product I can which is what we all want at the end of the day.
> ...


Ha thanks. Looking at them they look almost identical... The grey version is nearly impossible to tell 2014 from 2015


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## JetLife (Mar 9, 2013)

SAVETHISNOOB said:


> Nice. What made you go legends over decades? And did you find they fit true to size?
> I'm now thinking I'll be getting the decades just deciding whether to go with 9 (my shoe size and previous pair) or go 8.5 for a "performance fit".
> 
> Oh and insoles sounds like a good idea for your feet!


I got them at a show this past weekend. They didn't have the decades there, it was between the legend (2014) and a cheaper softer pair which I can't remember the name of (also 2014). I'd say they fit true to size, I wear an 11 shoe and 10.5 for my gym shoe and I went with a size 10 boot. My toe is just brushing the end but not uncomfortable so they'll be perfect once they pack out a little. Hope that helps. Any recommendations for insoles?


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## SAVETHISNOOB (Feb 29, 2012)

JetLife said:


> SAVETHISNOOB said:
> 
> 
> > Nice. What made you go legends over decades? And did you find they fit true to size?
> ...


Thanks, although I'm pretty sure what you described is not true to size as you had to downsize by a full size. Unless you wear your shoes too big... 

Softer boot was probably the freedom. Good choice avoiding those. Very mushy. 

And remind medic insoles are very highly repped. Don't have any myself...


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## JetLife (Mar 9, 2013)

SAVETHISNOOB said:


> Thanks, although I'm pretty sure what you described is not true to size as you had to downsize by a full size. Unless you wear your shoes too big...
> 
> Softer boot was probably the freedom. Good choice avoiding those. Very mushy.
> 
> And remind medic insoles are very highly repped. Don't have any myself...


Ya I wear mine a bit big for comfort. When I got my feet measured they're just a bit past 10 which is why they brush the end a bit but it's not uncomfortable. Ya I'm happy with my choice on getting stiffer ones. I had 32 fruit boots before and they're complete mush


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