# Need help with transition and linking turns



## BamaBoarder86 (Nov 10, 2011)

Ok guys I'm a beginner at best. Live in Alabama so that's one strike against me. I usually go on a week long trip every year. I've been a handful of times and have become much better. I can ride down the mountain all day, just not like I want to. Also never had a lesson, which I probably should this year. Here's my deal: 

I can ride toe side all day, I can ride heel side all day, I can start and stop either way - no problem. I can link turns but its not always good. 

The problem is worse when I transition from toe back to heel. It's not everytime, but it's almost like my board will "catch" on the front lip and throw me into the snow head first. Like I said, this may only happen once a day, but it's quite uncomfortable when it does.

My suspicion number one is am I putting too much weight on my back foot?

Secondly, I have heard every technique in the world for turning. Some say use the back foot as a rudder, some say weight on the front foot and steer. Some say to lean, look the way you wanna go, etc. All I know is I dont believe I'm doing it right. So any tips would be much appreciated before I head out this year. 

I board and am normal footed if that matters.


----------



## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

I would suspect its a timing issue...do you count through your turns? And an issue of getting in the back seat too soon because you are afraid of going too fast...which actually makes the problem worse. But take some lessons right away...so you can enjoy the rest of the week.


----------



## speedjason (May 2, 2013)

are your knees bent, are you shifting weight before you change and edge? you cant change to toe edge when the weight of your body is still on your heel edge. same goes when you switching to heel edge, you need to wait till your weight is centered to switch to heel side.


----------



## Walnut (Jan 6, 2014)

If you are new, the problem is probably caused by what you suspect. Be courageous, weight on your front foot(dont be afraid to exaggerate). In my oppinion the best practice is forcing a turn every second, getting into a good rythm, even though it is tough work. When you get to the bottom, all your fears have gone, your legs hurt good and you're ready for a beer if not a second run followed by two beers. :yahoo:


----------



## stillz (Jan 5, 2010)

As mentioned by others, being in the back seat is a very common problem that will cause sluggish turn initiation, or even a complete inability to turn. It tends to go hand-in-hand with relying on counter-rotational movements from the upper body to force turns. Do you swing your arms every time you turn? Turns happen too slowly, so counter is introduced to speed them up. The result is a flailing, unstable posture with imprecise edge control that can result in a slam. If this sounds like you, focus on keeping your arms relaxed and close to the body and utilizing torsional flex to initiate turns.

If that isn't the problem, one other common source of edge catches at this level is simply trying to change edges too soon/quickly. If you try to change edges while you have any component of sideslip, you will catch your edge every time. Try to release the old edge smoothly and try to get the board flat before smoothly engaging the new edge.

As a beginner, the safest time to change edges is parallel to the fall line. You will gain speed while doing this so make sure you're comfortable enough with that to stay out of the back seat. From the old edge, steer the lead foot down the hill by allowing the downhill edge to drop closer to the snow. The board will twist slightly (known as torsional flex), and the difference in edge pressure will cause the nose to drop downhill. As you approach the fall line, release the edge pressure from the back foot as well. You should now be pointed straight down the hill with the board flat. Before gaining too much speed, gently apply pressure to the new edge, front foot first (more torsional flex), then adding the back foot after the new turn is established.

As you become more proficient, you will be able to safely change edges earlier in the turn. This is nice because it gives you speed control earlier. Listen for the board to get quiet. If you can hear skidding, don't change edges. Again, your board must be travelling tip to tail, or tail to tip (no skidding), to safely change edges.

Good luck, I hope you find this helpful!


----------



## hardasacatshead (Aug 21, 2013)

speedjason said:


> are your knees bent, are you shifting weight before you change and edge? you cant change to toe edge when the weight of your body is still on your heel edge. same goes when you switching to heel edge, you need to wait till your weight is switched to heel side.


WHAT.... THE.... ACTUAL.... FUCK??? Stop giving advice to people, please, you have no idea what you're on about. 

You do not initiate a turn by shifting your weight from edge to edge. That's how people with shit technique turn and it's horribly inefficient. It's also a great way to breed bad habits.

To the OP, Stillz explained it quite well - to back him up for your toe side to heel side transition issue: you need to use the board to initiate your turn. So if you're 90 deg to the fall line (i.e. heading across the slope) on your heel edge start by looking over your shoulder to where you want to end up. Lift your front toe and push down on your heel by flexing your ankle to apply torsion to the board. 

Your board will begin to turn down the fall line, let it. :thumbsup: Keep both knees nice and bent with your back straight. Keep your knee, hip and shoulder in the same plane and your weight centred on your board. Your belly button should be in the centre of your stance while the knee bend and straight back help to put weight over the heel edge to prevent it skidding out. 

Hope this helps. Listen to Stillz.


----------



## ksup3erb (Jan 25, 2013)

You do have to shift your weight to turn, actually. Fore-aft shifting is necessary for proper turn technique. Need weight on front foot in order to engage the edge. And to really take advantage of the sidecut for turns you do have to stack weight over the toe or heel side edge. 

That guys comment isn't wrong, its just poorly articulated.


----------



## hardasacatshead (Aug 21, 2013)

For fuck's sake he was telling him to shift his weight between heel and toe to initiate a turn (that's not fore-aft). It was wrong and it still is. People need to stop giving poor advice here. 

I agree with you that you need to have some weight on the front foot to INITIATE the turn. Once you're into the turn though your weight needs to be centred fore-aft and stacked over the edge your turning on, as I said. 

I need a beer, you fuckers are wearing me thin tonight.


----------



## CassMT (Mar 14, 2013)

probably the worst way to explain anything, especially something simple like turning, is with a shitload of words on the internet.


----------



## hardasacatshead (Aug 21, 2013)

^ Agreed. 

There's a pretty definitive line when something is outright bullshit though.


----------



## ksup3erb (Jan 25, 2013)

I don't see where he says you have to shift your weight from heel to toe. Don't quite understand what he's saying actually. 

Go have that beer, not sure what your problem is.


----------



## stillz (Jan 5, 2010)

Yeah, words over the internet are far from ideal. I can't accurately assess someone's riding or learning style sitting here at my computer. Some people, such as myself, benefit from an accurate, technical description of what needs to happen. I tried to be thorough without excessive wordiness.


----------



## speedjason (May 2, 2013)

hardasacatshead said:


> For fuck's sake he was telling him to shift his weight between heel and toe to initiate a turn (that's not fore-aft). It was wrong and it still is. People need to stop giving poor advice here.
> 
> I agree with you that you need to have some weight on the front foot to INITIATE the turn. Once you're into the turn though your weight needs to be centred fore-aft and stacked over the edge your turning on, as I said.
> 
> I need a beer, you fuckers are wearing me thin tonight.


hey, I didnt say shifting weight to initiate the turn. I was suspecting the edge catching during transverse is caused switching edge when the weight is not over the board. maybe I didnt word it right.
actually come to think of it are YOU telling me when you change edge there is no weight shifting at all? I was talking about weighting over edge you are turning on, not fore-aft weight shifting jesus. relax.


----------



## CassMT (Mar 14, 2013)

just for the record, my comment above was just general, not directed at anyone...words suck for communicationing.


----------



## BamaBoarder86 (Nov 10, 2011)

Sorry for taking so long to reply, work issues.

Lots of different opinions. I think my biggest issue is leaning on my back foot, especially when getting on blues and blacks. And when I lean back I probably slide my back foot around like a rudder some, if that makes sense. 

Secondly, I probably do use my arms too much on steeper slopes.

One thing I have never heard (and I watched some videos on snowprofessor) is say when going from toe to heal side, I should pick up my toes on the front foot, and then follow with picking them up on my back foot when I start to turn. I have always done this at the same time, is that wrong?

I also think I probably have issues being centered over the board. So if I'm going from toe to heal side should I just pick up my toes as stated above? Or should i lean back some, whether at the beginning or during my turn?

Biggest issue I think is the speed of the blacks scare me so I lean way back and screw myself up. I can ride greens tight all day, blues fairly well. I will get a lesson this time, but just trying to get a leg up. All the info so far has been helpful.


----------



## stillz (Jan 5, 2010)

Okay, it sounds like the problem is simple speed anxiety. Basically, the steeper the slope is, the more you need to feel like you're leaning forward (down the hill) to keep the front foot weighted. Your spine should be perpendicular to the board/terrain.

If you can't align yourself with the terrain, it's too steep -- take a step back. There's no need to rush to the most challenging terrain you can survive. Take your time and ride with some style on blues before moving on to blacks. I know that sounds boring, but I would rather tear up a blue run with authority than sideslip, flail, and scorpion my way down a double diamond.

Also, I'm glad to hear you're getting a lesson. They really are worthwhile.

Edit: As for leaning into the turn, your center of mass (CM) should be balanced directly over the turning edge, achieving edge angle by flexing the joints of the lower body (angulation). If conditions are good, you can get away with leaning your CM farther inside the turn like a eurocarve (inclination), but an ice patch will put you on the ground.


----------



## nillo (Dec 18, 2013)

If you can't link turns, you have absolutely no business being on a black.

@hardasacatshead I'm pretty sure a cross-over is a turn where you shift your weight (center of mass) over the board to engage one edge or the other.


----------

