# Dialogue vs Ruler wide



## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

cwbolyard said:


> Hey guys I currently Ride Burton Ruler wide but I have tons of heal lift even after adding foam around the ankle. I've been told the Salomon Dialogue wide will have the wide toe box but a narrower heal. I have wide feel with narrow ankles. And if anyone has input on the speed lacing vs double boa on the Dialogue that would be good to know. Any input? Thanks!


Hi,

The Dialogue Wide is E width, The Ruler Wide is EEE width. The best (let's call it essential ) place to start is with your barefoot measurements. Please also let us know your current boot size.

Please measure your foot using this method:

Kick your heel (barefoot please, no socks) back against a wall. Mark the floor exactly at the tip of your toe (the one that sticks out furthest - which toe this is will vary by rider). Measure from the mark on the floor to the wall. That is your foot length and is the only measurement that you will want to use. Measure in centimeters if possible, but if not, take inches and multiply by 2.54 (example: an 11.25 inch foot x 2.54 = 28.57 centimeters). For width please place the inside (medial side) of your foot against a wall. Please then measure from the wall out to the widest point on the lateral (outside) of your foot.


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## cwbolyard (Dec 17, 2018)

I have been fitted and I'm a solid 10.5 length and right on the wide side


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## cwbolyard (Dec 17, 2018)

Just at 27.4cm long x 10.8cm wide


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

cwbolyard said:


> I have been fitted and I'm a solid 10.5 length and right on the wide side


Hi,

27.4 cm is Mondopoint 275 or size 9.5 US in snowboard boots (the range is 27.1 to 27.5 cm). 10.8 cm is actually at the top of the measurement range for EE width (you are two full width sizes above a "normal" D). You will always get heel lift in a 10.5. I would strongly suggest that you stick with Burton's Wide models (Ruler Wide or Photon Wide) at a size 9.5 US. 

STOKED!


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## muzzyahoy (Nov 19, 2016)

cwbolyard said:


> Hey guys I currently Ride Burton Ruler wide but I have tons of heal lift even after adding foam around the ankle. I've been told the Salomon Dialogue wide will have the wide toe box but a narrower heal. I have wide feel with narrow ankles. And if anyone has input on the speed lacing vs double boa on the Dialogue that would be good to know. Any input? Thanks!


Give Adidas a shot. I had the exact same issue with Burton's, and Adidas, although not listed as wide's, are exceptionally wide. They were the first boot in 20 years of riding that actually fit my flippers. I have the Adidas Tactical ADV's, wish I had the Acerra's though. The Superstar's were too wide, as were the Samba's. Exceptionally comfortable boots, for my foot at least!!
Hope this helps.


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## cwbolyard (Dec 17, 2018)

Wiredsport said:


> Hi,
> 
> 27.4 cm is Mondopoint 275 or size 9.5 US in snowboard boots (the range is 27.1 to 27.5 cm). 10.8 cm is actually at the top of the measurement range for EE width (you are two full width sizes above a "normal" D). You will always get heel lift in a 10.5. I would strongly suggest that you stick with Burton's Wide models (Ruler Wide or Photon Wide) at a size 9.5 US.
> 
> STOKED!


What sizing chart are you using? every shoe chart I can find said 27.3 is a 10.5. Ive tried 10's and they're too short. and from what I can tell 10.8 is less than an E. Ive looked at lots of charts. Do you have a snowboard specific one? Id be curious why every snowboard shop has fitted me for 10.5 wide then...


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

cwbolyard said:


> What sizing chart are you using? every shoe chart I can find said 27.3 is a 10.5. Ive tried 10's and they're too short. and from what I can tell 10.8 is less than an E. Ive looked at lots of charts. Do you have a snowboard specific one? Id be curious why every snowboard shop has fitted me for 10.5 wide then...


Hi,

The good news is that you will be able to solve your issues by dropping down to your Mondopoint size. 

Shoe sizes and snowboard boot sizes will never be the same. You can view Burton's chart by clicking on the size chart link here: https://www.burton.com/us/en/p/mens-burton-ruler-wide-snowboard-boot/W19-131751.html . Every snowboard boot chart should be the same. 

That said it is always best to just go by your Mondopoint length as there is no conversion involved. Your foot length in mm is your Mondopoint size. Here is our snowboard boot sizing helper Snowboard Boot Size, Chart, Calculator, Sizing . It will show your (view the tabs) how your foot measurement will relate to boot size and shoe size. 

Here is an accurate chart for foot width:










STOKED!


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## cwbolyard (Dec 17, 2018)

Wiredsport said:


> Hi,
> 
> The good news is that you will be able to solve your issues by dropping down to your Mondopoint size.
> 
> ...


I tried on some regular 10's this weekend... way too small. Balls of my feet felt crushed and like the middle of my forefoot was on fire. I have very tall feet also.


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## Snow Hound (Jul 21, 2012)

cwbolyard said:


> I tried on some regular 10's this weekend... way too small. Balls of my feet felt crushed and like the middle of my forefoot was on fire. I have very tall feet also.


Correctly fitted boots will be uncomfortable for a few days.

Boots that feel good in the shop will be too big after a few days.

Also, heat moulding.


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

cwbolyard said:


> I tried on some regular 10's this weekend... way too small. Balls of my feet felt crushed and like the middle of my forefoot was on fire. I have very tall feet also.


Hi,

You would not be expected to fit in a regular 10. Your foot is EE width at Mondopoint 275 (which is 9.5). This is two width sizes too wide for a "normal" D boot. The range for mondopoint 275 (size 9.5) is 27.1 cm to 27.5 cm so you are mid range. Your width is also comfortably within the range for Burton's Wide boots (which are both EEE width). You are not close to pushing the limits of this fit. Once you have matched your length (size 9.5) and your width (EE) you will be in the correct size.

If you would like to post up barefoot images of your measurements being taken I will be happy to have a look. 

Simply put, the shops should have told you this (sadly, many get this wrong all the time). The fact that you walked away from numerous shops thinking that your snowboard boots size should match your shoe size is a failure on their part. This measurement not only determines boot size but is also required for all other gear sizing (regardless of the boot size that you choose). You originally posted because you are having trouble in your boots. We are here to help with that if you would like.

STOKED!


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## SGboarder (Jun 24, 2012)

cwbolyard said:


> *What sizing chart are you using? every shoe chart I can find said 27.3 is a 10.5. *Ive tried 10's and they're too short. and from what I can tell 10.8 is less than an E. Ive looked at lots of charts. Do you have a snowboard specific one? Id be curious why every snowboard shop has fitted me for 10.5 wide then...


Nope, 27.3 is a US9.5/UK8.5 for most footwear. Some specific brands might creep into US10 but that is pretty rare. Lots of people were shoes that are technically too large for everyday with little detrmient, but for sports a proper fit will massively improve performance - and comfort in the long run.


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## cwbolyard (Dec 17, 2018)

Snow Hound said:


> Correctly fitted boots will be uncomfortable for a few days.
> 
> Boots that feel good in the shop will be too big after a few days.
> 
> Also, heat moulding.


Duh...I'm not an idiot...been riding a long time... but there is a point you know is too small for your feet. I've ridden in my Rulers 20 days and they still feel tight everywhere except the heel. I have odd shaped feet and I really only asked for advice on the heel fit of the dialogue vs the ruler


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## Kenai (Dec 15, 2013)

cwbolyard said:


> ... and I really only asked for advice on the heel fit of the dialogue vs the ruler



And you got the complete answer about addressing your boot fit problems. If you just want someone to give you the answer you want to hear, go back to the boot shop you trust. 



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

cwbolyard said:


> Duh...I'm not an idiot...been riding a long time... but there is a point you know is too small for your feet. I've ridden in my Rulers 20 days and they still feel tight everywhere except the heel. I have odd shaped feet and I really only asked for advice on the heel fit of the dialogue vs the ruler


Hi,

Our goal is to help you get on the right track with boots. Please do post up images of your foot measurements and your bare feet if you would like further assistance. We don't mean to push you to do something you are uncomfortable with. This is a process. Your foot size has huge impacts on all gear choices. Getting this right is the biggest positive thing you can do for your riding. We are here to help if you would like to look further into that.

STOKED!


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## unsuspected (Oct 26, 2015)

cwbolyard said:


> Duh...I'm not an idiot...been riding a long time... but there is a point you know is too small for your feet. I've ridden in my Rulers 20 days and they still feel tight everywhere except the heel. I have odd shaped feet and I really only asked for advice on the heel fit of the dialogue vs the ruler


No you are a idiot for not listening to all the advise you are getting...


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## cwbolyard (Dec 17, 2018)

unsuspected said:


> No you are a idiot for not listening to all the advise you are getting...


*an idiot.....I am listening and I've looked at mondo sizing but there is no way a 9.5 will fit my foot...So I have the size that will fit my feet, 10.5. The advise I am looking for is on specific boot models.


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## cwbolyard (Dec 17, 2018)

Wiredsport said:


> Hi,
> 
> You would not be expected to fit in a regular 10. Your foot is EE width at Mondopoint 275 (which is 9.5). This is two width sizes too wide for a "normal" D boot. The range for mondopoint 275 (size 9.5) is 27.1 cm to 27.5 cm so you are mid range. Your width is also comfortably within the range for Burton's Wide boots (which are both EEE width). You are not close to pushing the limits of this fit. Once you have matched your length (size 9.5) and your width (EE) you will be in the correct size.
> 
> ...


I wear 11 every day so I knew that wouldnt be correct. How much do you recommend your toes being in the front? with my 10.5 the are touching the front. I can't imagine going a whole size down...my toes would be crammed in there.


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

cwbolyard said:


> I wear 11 every day so I knew that wouldnt be correct. How much do you recommend your toes being in the front? with my 10.5 the are touching the front. I can't imagine going a whole size down...my toes would be crammed in there.


Hi,

Yes, your shoe size and snowboard boot size will never be the same. That is one of the factors that leads to boot buying errors so frequently. It is legitimately confusing. Just touching the end of the boot is far too large. I would like to reiterate that you should not feel silly about this. I have been having some version of this conversation for 25 years . Take heart. It will end well for your feet.

I just wrote this in another post so excuse the copy/paste. In a correctly fit snowboard boot you will have no free space. You are looking for both your toes and heels to have firm pressure into the compliant materials of the liner. 

STOKED!


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## Radialhead (Jan 3, 2018)

cwbolyard said:


> *an idiot.....I am listening and I've looked at mondo sizing but there is no way a 9.5 will fit my foot...So I have the size that will fit my feet, 10.5. The advise I am looking for is on specific boot models.


The problem is you're looking for advice on specific boots *when fitted to feet that are two sizes too small for them*, and the chances of finding anyone with experience of those boots worn that oversized is extremely slim.

You should probably just do the foot-measuring photo thing. I know you think it's a waste of time, but it may highlight the real issue.


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## rayt100 (Aug 29, 2016)

Last week I was in Showcase Snowboards in Whistler to get my Burton Photons wide heat fitted. I ask if they have toe caps to open it up a little. My boots are 9.5 for reference. The guy measures my foot with socks on and tells me I need a 10.5, another guy chimes in that I need a 11 and the 9.5 wont work for me.
I've been riding 9.5 Salomon Synapse for years and know my size using wireds measurements. The shop was busy and I watched them put a lot of people into wrong sized boots. Oh yeah my 9.5's are working for me and fit jus fine. LISTEN TO WIRED !


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## boisell (Feb 14, 2016)

cwbolyard said:


> I wear 11 every day so I knew that wouldnt be correct. How much do you recommend your toes being in the front? with my 10.5 the are touching the front. I can't imagine going a whole size down...my toes would be crammed in there.


I wear a size 10.5 shoe and a size 9 Adidas Tactical ADV so you're right not a whole size, but maybe a whole size and a half :smile:


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## cwbolyard (Dec 17, 2018)

So I followed your direction and bought Ruler 9.5 wide. One run in and my feet are painful numb immovable blocks with fire under my forefoot. 15 seconds after taking them off my feet feel good, 5 more seconds and severe pins and needles all over my feet. The responsiveness and heel hold was incredible but way too painful for riding. I tried breaking them in at home and I know new boots are not supposed to be comfortable but theses were miserable. How much will the imprint 2 liners packout and how quickly?


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## Rip154 (Sep 23, 2017)

Were you too wide for the Salomons, because that doesn't sound like a width issue?


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## SlvrDragon50 (Mar 25, 2017)

cwbolyard said:


> So I followed your direction and bought Ruler 9.5 wide. One run in and my feet are painful numb immovable blocks with fire under my forefoot. 15 seconds after taking them off my feet feel good, 5 more seconds and severe pins and needles all over my feet. The responsiveness and heel hold was incredible but way too painful for riding. I tried breaking them in at home and I know new boots are not supposed to be comfortable but theses were miserable. How much will the imprint 2 liners packout and how quickly?


Did you heat mold at all? Would strongly recommend that.


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

cwbolyard said:


> So I followed your direction and bought Ruler 9.5 wide. One run in and my feet are painful numb immovable blocks with fire under my forefoot. 15 seconds after taking them off my feet feel good, 5 more seconds and severe pins and needles all over my feet. The responsiveness and heel hold was incredible but way too painful for riding. I tried breaking them in at home and I know new boots are not supposed to be comfortable but theses were miserable. How much will the imprint 2 liners packout and how quickly?


Hi cwb,

Your measurements are mid range for length and are narrow for width on the Ruler so this is not a tricky fit and we should see what is going on there. Please pull the insert (the footbed) out of the liner and stand on it barefoot with your heel all the way back on the heel indent and post images of that here. Please be sure to show the whole foot.

STOKED!


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## cwbolyard (Dec 17, 2018)

Wiredsport said:


> Hi cwb,
> 
> Your measurements are mid range for length and are narrow for width on the Ruler so this is not a tricky fit and we should see what is going on there. Please pull the insert (the footbed) out of the liner and stand on it barefoot with your heel all the way back on the heel indent and post images of that here. Please be sure to show the whole foot.
> 
> STOKED!


You said it was as easy as getting a 9.5... I'm guessing new boot should not feels that painful after 15 minutes? Half way down the trail I had to give myself a pep talk to keep them on and make it down


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

cwbolyard said:


> You said it was as easy as getting a 9.5... I'm guessing new boot should not feels that painful after 15 minutes? Half way down the trail I had to give myself a pep talk to keep them on and make it down


Hi,

Your measurements are a Mondopoint 275 or size 9.5 in snowboard boots at an EE width. I will be happy to have a look. Please do post up the images I have requested. That will allow me to confirm your measurements and get a visual on your foot in relation to the boot. Please also post an image of the label that is inside the boots.
STOKED!


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## cwbolyard (Dec 17, 2018)

excuse my ugly feel. my family dubbed them "hamburger feet" when I was born. theyre quite stout


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## cwbolyard (Dec 17, 2018)

Wiredsport said:


> Hi,
> 
> Your measurements are a Mondopoint 275 or size 9.5 in snowboard boots at an EE width. I will be happy to have a look. Please do post up the images I have requested. That will allow me to confirm your measurements and get a visual on your foot in relation to the boot. Please also post an image of the label that is inside the boots.
> STOKED!


Ive been trying for 30 minutes and it wont let me upload pictures...but my feet go way over the insole. when I take out the liner my feel ALMOST touch the sides of the shell. I remeasured my width with my foot as relaxed as possible and touching the wall just BARELY, still within 3E for 9.5


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## cwbolyard (Dec 17, 2018)

30 minutes into wearing the boots completely unlaced, no cinching the liner, nothing...already having burning under both forefeet


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

cwbolyard said:


> excuse my ugly feel. my family dubbed them "hamburger feet" when I was born. theyre quite stout


If you are having trouble with images on the forum you can post them as links to any photo sharing site. It will be important that we see images of your foot measurements being taken, the label on the boots and your foot on the insert. Thanks.


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