# The great boot battle of 2013 - 9 pairs demo'd at home



## mcascone (Oct 6, 2013)

So I got fed up with the snowboard stores in my area never carrying my size (12) in the boots I'm interested in, and only having one or two options at each store to try on when they did. So I took matters into my own hands and ordered all of the models I wanted to try from 2 online stores. That way I can compare them all at the same time, and return the ones that don't make the cut. Both orders shipped for free; I can return most of them to the store locally and a few will only cost 6.99 total to ship back. 

I am posting this from my phone so I'll upload images later. For now I want to get my notes uploaded here. (It's possible to get the images up from the phone but it's a bit of a process, so I'll do it later.)

Note: my feet are on the flat side, quite bony, and normal width. I have heel spurs on both feet from years of ice hockey skates as a kid, and a pretty good amount of angle from my big to to my little toe - in other words my toes aren't flat across but angle down towards the outside. I have bony ankles and high, lean calves. 

Also, all boots are Double Boa unless otherwise noted. I'm looking for freeride support with a comfortable feel - I ride steeps, trees and powder, and don't go in the park.

Here we go!


DC Judge: 
These are the boots I'm coming off of, and they've changed a ton. My old ones were single boa and a totally different shape. I was wearing a 13 before which were too big, especially once they packed out. These new ones in 12 are just barely too small. Very tight in the toes - too tight. Quite comfortable otherwise. Not nearly as stiff as expected. No heel lift.
Thirtytwo Focus Boa:
Stiff! Feels light. Lots of pressure points on ankles. Gets less and less comfortable over time. No heel lift. Feels tall.
Nike Zoom Force Boa:
I couldn't figure out the liner lace system; pretty much goes back in the box because of this. Comfy. Minor heel lift, probably due to not being able to tighten the liner. Tight in the outside toes, but good fit in the big toe. Medium flex at most. Fancy finish that would probably wear off quickly. 
K2 Thraxis:
Triple boa! No laces at all! Is there a specific way the Velcro between the liner and tongue is supposed to be used? Very comfortable. Lower on the calf than most. Not a fan of the fur on the liner but I've heard it holds up to wear. Very easy entry/exit. High-medium-stiff flex. 
K2 UFO:
Less stiff than the Thraxis. Boa Conda = no liner laces, but only single boa for the outside. No power strap like the Thraxis, Velcro on the liner. VERY comfortable. 
32 TM-2:
The only lace boot in the lineup. I tried them on previously and liked them, and wanted to try again. Surprised how tight I can get them with the laces vs. boa. Still, not sure I'd go with lace in the long run. Has that same "empty"(?) feel that the Focus has; relatively tall as well - this is basically the Focus with laces or vice-versa. High-Medium-stiff. A touch tight in the toes. I have the same problem with multiple pressure points on the ankle and shin as with the Focus. I really like look of the green laces. 
Ride Insano:
A little big/loose in the forefoot - instep blows out a little when flexing forward. Impossible to get my foot in; however, it feels "big" inside once I do. Too much room/space in the shin. These would be hella stiff if they fit. 
Flow Talon:
HOLY STIFF. Too big, though. Interesting liner closure; uses a speed-lace style pull on the medial (inside). I don't trust the "teeth" lace locks though. They come out too easily when you don't want them to and don't when you do. This is my issue with all speed lace system, except the 32 Fast Track which has a flip-closure that appears more trustworthy. The power strap loop is thin and appears flimsy. Did I mention how stiff these are?
Vans Cirro:
Burly boas - different style than the others. Hard to open the tongue. Very stiff, up there with the Insano and Talon. Can really feel my heel lock down when tightening the lower zone boa. Pressure point on my heel when flexing forward. Not all that comfortable mostly due to the heel pressure issue. 

My thumbs are sore from all this boa'ing!

After all this, I narrowed it down to the Thraxis and the Focus Boa, and I am heavily leaning Thraxis. The 32 is a notch stiffer than the Thraxis, possibly due to being taller, but the Thraxis is more comfortable and I like their flex. I want to like the 32's more but they have pressure points on my ankles and shin. I posted this question on another thread:does it make more sense to go with the boot that feels more comfortable out of the box, like the Thraxis, or to hope that the liner in the 32 will pack/mold out to be more comfortable over time - or heat mold it? The answer seems obvious - go with the boot that feels most comfortable without any modifications, but perhaps it's not. So I ask. 

I should note that I went into my try-ons without thinking about how much each boot cost. Obviously, I ordered them, and know approximately each price without looking at the invoice, but I wanted my opinions to not be colored by the price - only by the fit. Naturally it turns out that the boot I'm probably going to choose is the most expensive by a good margin; that's just be way it turned out. The triple boa is the likely cause of the high price. In the end though, it's gotta be about the fit, and that's what my feet were telling me.

I made a note on the side of my notepad about how this is similar to music, or wine, food, or any subjective matter - you can analyze as much as you want to, but it's also largely about that first moment's impression, the "YES/NO" your brain says right away, that is often the right call. 

I'm giving it another day or two to make a final call. I'll post pics soon as well. Thanks for reading.


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## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

idk...do what u want. I use 32 focus boas, love them, I don't heat mold, just wear...and it takes 6-8 days before they begin to feel comfortable, and they will pack out and get abit sloppy...but if you look at pics in the sticky boot faq, you will see stuff I've done that continue to make them feel like slippers.


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## SnowDragon (Apr 23, 2012)

You should have ordered the TRice boot in the DC line if you wanted stiff.
The Judge is more freestyle and therefore softer.

When I got mine, I HAD to get them heat molded and stretched in the toe before I was comfortable with them. They have been great ever since.

I know BA made a comment a couple of weeks ago that he wears boots that are quite painful for the first couple of weeks and then, as they pack out/mold to your foot, they become perfect.
I have found also, that boots that feel comfortable out of the box, tend to feel loose and have less control/response as they are worn in.
Food for thought.


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## mcascone (Oct 6, 2013)

GreyDragon said:


> You should have ordered the TRice boot in the DC line if you wanted stiff.
> The Judge is more freestyle and therefore softer.
> 
> When I got mine, I HAD to get them heat molded and stretched in the toe before I was comfortable with them. They have been great ever since.
> ...


I tried the Rice on in-store and didn't think it felt any stiffer than the Judge, which really surprised me. It struck me that I should have ordered them anyway, but it slipped my mind I guess. I might just order them now...

I just don't know if I'm making the classic mistake of getting boots that are comfy now but will pack out to be too big. I mean, they're pretty tight. My toes are more than just touching in front but not curled, which I thought was just right. The issue with the 32's for me was more the ankle and shin hot spots that just didn't feel right, and when I put on the K2's was like "ahhhhh" it felt so much better.


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## stan_darsh (Mar 10, 2013)

pretty cool test, i use soft boots, so i have no real relevance to this, haha, but cool nonetheless!


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

GreyDragon said:


> I know BA made a comment a couple of weeks ago that he wears boots that are quite painful for the first couple of weeks and then, as they pack out/mold to your foot, they become perfect.
> I have found also, that boots that feel comfortable out of the box, tend to feel loose and have less control/response as they are worn in.
> Food for thought.


#23
http://www.snowboardingforum.com/boots/89745-how-often-does-average-person-get-4.html


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## mcascone (Oct 6, 2013)

mcascone said:


> I tried the Rice on in-store and didn't think it felt any stiffer than the Judge, which really surprised me. It struck me that I should have ordered them anyway, but it slipped my mind I guess. I might just order them now...


Just fired off the order for the Rices. Waiting...


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## SnowDragon (Apr 23, 2012)

I'm surprised you felt little difference between the Judges and the TRices. I own both from 2 seasons ago and I found the difference easily noticeable.

From your comments above, it sounds like the Thraxis is the boot with which you are most comfortable (subject to the TRices when you get them).
I would go with them if they are comfortable for you, but I would also try a half size smaller, side by side. See if that size is wearable but slightly over tight in the toes.
It might be that as that one packs out, it would fit better than the larger one, which may pack out and make the boot feel loose.

Aftermarket footbeds will make a difference also.

See the link Neni sent for more info.

(Neni has developed into the forum librarian it appears. Good to have that resource. Thanks Neni!)


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## freshy (Nov 18, 2009)

It's not always true that a comfy fit = Too loose in the future. Northwaves for me have been comfy the first time I try and stayed sweet later. I'm a guy who rides equipment for a long time and after 4 or 5 years my Northwaves start to mess with my arch and cause discomfort, it's happened with 2 different pairs of them. The last pair were even a size too big but I never had heel lift or issues with my foot traveling about the boot. My toes loved it.
But this year I got some DC Status T.Rice boots. They are a bit tight on my big toe with thick socks but feel great with thin ones. The shops heat molder was broken when I got them so been trying to wear them in around the house. But yeah I also tried the Judge and noticed they were a lot less stiff than the T.Rice as well, but still stiff enough. According to DC Judge is 8/10 and Rice is 9/10
I did notice the Insanos were even stiffer than the T.Rice, like almost ski boot stiff, compared to the DC boots they'd be an 11/10. And I totally agree with the getting them on and off being pretty hard. I had a feeling the material by the heels would not last long because of it. Back to the T.Rice it's nice how they have that leather strip in the back to help protect against that kind of wear.
But I totally hear you on shops not having enough sizes or selection on making a perfect choice. If I could afford to order 5 pairs of boots I'd do it your way too.


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## mcascone (Oct 6, 2013)

freshy said:


> I did notice the Insanos were even stiffer than the T.Rice, like almost ski boot stiff, compared to the DC boots they'd be an 11/10.
> 
> Back to the T.Rice it's nice how they have that leather strip in the back to help protect against that kind of wear.
> 
> But I totally hear you on shops not having enough sizes or selection on making a perfect choice. If I could afford to order 5 pairs of boots I'd do it your way too.


The Flow Talon was even stiffer than the Insano. 12 on this scale if not higher. The Talon, Insano, and Cirro were the stiffest I tried, in that order - all three I felt were _too_stiff. Actually I bet if you put the included tounge stiffeners in the Cirro, they'd be at least as stiff as the Talon. I didn't put them in when I tried them. The thought crossed my mind that they're there because they expect the boot to break down early, and need to be stiffened? They're so stiff out of the box that I don't see too many people wanting them stiffer than that to start.

This year's Rice, which I just ordered, has a nice big area on the toe covered in what appears to be real burly heavy duty canvas. I have a good feeling about these, I hope they fit right - part of me wants to choose them over the Thraxis; it just depends on how they fit.

It's not necessarily about being able to afford it... it's about getting them returned and credited back to your card in time.


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

GreyDragon said:


> (Neni has developed into the forum librarian it appears. Good to have that resource. Thanks Neni!)


I remembered that Chomps used the word "chocolate" in that thread, so it was a three click search; bit easier to find than if you'd search for boots&BA


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## Weasley (Feb 4, 2013)

With the Nikes you just pull the two strings and the plastic piece will slide down and tighten. then to untighten you just pull on the fabric piece on the plastic part and off it will come. Been riding Nike's for the past two seasons now and I love them. So comfortable and very durable. If you're looking for a stiffer boot, check out the Danny Kass. They are I think the stiffest of the Nikes (besides the newer Lunador or whatever they are called) and they are just very well made. Check out the Lunadors too. Probably a great boot as well. (Better be for a 400+ dollar boot)


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## jtg (Dec 11, 2012)

mcascone said:


> The issue with the 32's for me was more the ankle and shin hot spots that just didn't feel right.


In my experience, slight pressure points in the store (or at home I guess) will be 10x worse when you're using them. If there is any doubt, do not get.


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## mcascone (Oct 6, 2013)

Weasley said:


> With the Nikes you just pull the two strings and the plastic piece will slide down and tighten. then to untighten you just pull on the fabric piece on the plastic part and off it will come.


I assumed that was how it worked, and I tried all of that of course. It just didn't work, and it put a ton of stress on the laces from stretching them so hard... given all of the other boots I was trying on this seemed like a terrible design and I wrote the boot off after struggling with the laces for a few minutes.


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## mcascone (Oct 6, 2013)

jtg said:


> In my experience, slight pressure points in the store (or at home I guess) will be 10x worse when you're using them. If there is any doubt, do not get.


Good point. That's my feeling too but with all of the talk about boots packing out and molding to fit, it's confusing. But I agree that the boots that start out more comfortable are probably going to stay that way, and vice-versa.


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## SnowDragon (Apr 23, 2012)

mcascone said:


> Good point. That's my feeling too but with all of the talk about boots packing out and molding to fit, it's confusing. But I agree that the boots that start out more comfortable are probably going to stay that way, and vice-versa.


I would go with that assumption.
Go with the ones that are most comfortable, but as I mentioned, try a half size smaller as well to address the packing out issue.
And don't forget to try with upgraded/aftermarket insoles.


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## mcascone (Oct 6, 2013)

GreyDragon said:


> I would go with that assumption.
> Go with the ones that are most comfortable, but as I mentioned, try a half size smaller as well to address the packing out issue.
> And don't forget to try with upgraded/aftermarket insoles.


I don't have a ton of experience with boot fit changing over time, but I'm certainly thinking about erring on the side of too tight vs. too loose. My Burton Rulers in 13 were too big to start with, and only got worse as they packed out quickly over a season. Then I got Judges - this is back in the 07-08 season - that were also 13 and fit well for a few seasons, say 30-45 days, and have packed out to be too big since then.

Also my second toe sticks out past my big toe, which makes for a weird fit - I could probably get into an 11.5 if I didn't have that. But the smaller 12's are a good fit overall.


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## SnowDragon (Apr 23, 2012)

mcascone said:


> I don't have a ton of experience with boot fit changing over time, but I'm certainly thinking about erring on the side of too tight vs. too loose. My Burton Rulers in 13 were too big to start with, and only got worse as they packed out quickly over a season. Then I got Judges - this is back in the 07-08 season - *that were also 13 and fit well for a few seasons, say 30-45 days, and have packed out to be too big since then.*
> Also my second toe sticks out past my big toe, which makes for a weird fit - I could probably get into an 11.5 if I didn't have that. But the smaller 12's are a good fit overall.


That's exactly why I suggest trying a half size smaller!
Go with the comfortable boots for you, but see if you can size down and not cut off your circulation. After a while they will likely fit perfectly and not have heel lift for as long as you wear them.:thumbsup:

Btw, I was in your fair city a couple of weekends ago for my second annual Bears/Blackhawks weekend. I'm from Toronto but a fan of both of those teams.
Great weekend again, except both the Blackhawks and Bears lost.

Bear Down!
Chelsea Dagger.


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## mcascone (Oct 6, 2013)

GreyDragon said:


> That's exactly why I suggest trying a half size smaller!
> Go with the comfortable boots for you, but see if you can size down and not cut off your circulation. After a while they will likely fit perfectly and not have heel lift for as long as you wear them.:thumbsup:


I'm a small 13/large 12 in shoes and my previous snowboard boots were all 13's. I've sized all the way down to a 12 for this pair. I'll consider trying 11.5's next time but I've already gone through so much effort finding this pair... the 12's are appreciably tight compared to the 13's I had in the past.


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## SnowDragon (Apr 23, 2012)

mcascone said:


> I'm a small 13/large 12 in shoes and my previous snowboard boots were all 13's. I've sized all the way down to a 12 for this pair. I'll consider trying 11.5's next time but I've already gone through so much effort finding this pair... the 12's are appreciably tight compared to the 13's I had in the past.


You're probably fine then if you've already sized down.

Good luck!


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