# Jones Mind Expander vs Bataleon The Surfer



## killerloop82 (Oct 29, 2016)

Hi guys, I am looking for a new pow board, something that will be good for the European Alps and also for the deep stuff in Japan.
I narrowed down between the Jones Mind Expander and the Bataleon The Surfer.
I could find a lot of reviews for the Expander and are all positive, but not many review for the Surfer.
Anyone has tried both? Differences?
Thanks


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## MR. (Oct 9, 2015)

I haven't ridden a Bataleon Surfer, but I have a MindExpander and a Endeavor Archetype. The Archetype is probably my favorite, but if I was taking a trip and wanted to take one board to ride everything it would be the MindExpander. It floats great in powder, carves really well for a rocker profile, and makes riding trees and bumps easy. If it has a drawback it's that the tight sidecut can make it a little sketchy at speed on fast groomers.


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## killerloop82 (Oct 29, 2016)

MR. said:


> I haven't ridden a Bataleon Surfer, but I have a MindExpander and a Endeavor Archetype. The Archetype is probably my favorite, but if I was taking a trip and wanted to take one board to ride everything it would be the MindExpander. It floats great in powder, carves really well for a rocker profile, and makes riding trees and bumps easy. If it has a drawback it's that the tight sidecut can make it a little sketchy at speed on fast groomers.


In deep pow the swallotail of the Archetype has a lot of benefits compared to the Mind Expander? 
Or the difference is not noticeable?
I want to buy a new board that I will use 90% of the time only for powder, so I am looking for the best float 
and maneuverability between the trees.
Thanks


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## SGboarder (Jun 24, 2012)

killerloop82 said:


> In deep pow the swallotail of the Archetype has a lot of benefits compared to the Mind Expander?
> Or the difference is not noticeable?
> I want to buy a new board that I will use 90% of the time only for powder, so I am looking for the best float
> and maneuverability between the trees.
> Thanks


Short answer: No.
Longer answer: Swallow tail *can* help in powder (by reducing surface area in the tail for a given length). But another way to think about it is to as edge extensions (to effectively a shorter board) and adding torsional flex in the tail.
The latter helps understand the Archetype: While definitely powder capable, it is really a freeride board that retains a certain playfulness. For serious powder riding you want to size up.

In contrast, the Mind Expander and Surfer are both 'real' powder boards.


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## MR. (Oct 9, 2015)

I'm about 170, and I have the 154 versions of both the Archetype and MindExpander. At that length the MindExpander has a lot more nose and a shorter tail. I think the 3D base really helps the MindExpander float great, and it's super easy to keep the nose up. With the short sidecut and surf rocker I've found the MindExpander to be really fluid in the trees. 
The Archetype is more stable, and likes to go fast. The split tail probably helps sink the tail in powder, but it's pretty long, so there's still a lot of board behind you. It's a lot of fun to carve big turns on both groomers and in powder, but it's a little more work in the trees. The Archetype has a lot more pop off the tail than the MindExpander. If I was getting an Archetype to ride mainly powder I would probably go with the 158 or 162. Hope that helps a little.


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

SGboarder said:


> Short answer: No.
> Longer answer: Swallow tail *can* help in powder (by reducing surface area in the tail for a given length). But another way to think about it is to as edge extensions (to effectively a shorter board) and adding torsional flex in the tail.
> The latter helps understand the Archetype: While definitely powder capable, it is really a freeride board that retains a certain playfulness. For serious powder riding you want to size up.
> 
> In contrast, the Mind Expander and Surfer are both 'real' powder boards.


Very true ^


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

MR. said:


> I'm about 170, and I have the 154 versions of both the Archetype and MindExpander. At that length the MindExpander has a lot more nose and a shorter tail. I think the 3D base really helps the MindExpander float great, and it's super easy to keep the nose up. With the short sidecut and surf rocker I've found the MindExpander to be really fluid in the trees.
> The Archetype is more stable, and likes to go fast. The split tail probably helps sink the tail in powder, but it's pretty long, so there's still a lot of board behind you. It's a lot of fun to carve big turns on both groomers and in powder, but it's a little more work in the trees. The Archetype has a lot more pop off the tail than the MindExpander. If I was getting an Archetype to ride mainly powder I would probably go with the 158 or 162. Hope that helps a little.


Also this ^


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## MMSlasher (Mar 18, 2016)

SGboarder said:


> Short answer: No.
> Longer answer: Swallow tail *can* help in powder (by reducing surface area in the tail for a given length). But another way to think about it is to as edge extensions (to effectively a shorter board) and adding torsional flex in the tail.
> The latter helps understand the Archetype: While definitely powder capable, it is really a freeride board that retains a certain playfulness. For serious powder riding you want to size up.
> 
> In contrast, the Mind Expander and Surfer are both 'real' powder boards.


I understand what you are saying and it makes sense, except for calling the Mind Expander and Surfer 'real' powder boards, yet leaving out the Archetype. So, I guess I just don't know what your definition of "powder board" is.

When comparing a 162 M.E and Archetype on paper, the Archetype has .83 cm wider nose, nearly 1 cm more taper, a swallow tail that will sink the back end, 2 cm of set back. Its WW is smaller by 1 mm, so nearly equal. I know flex ratings vary from company to company, but the M.E is a 6 and the Archetype is a 7, so slightly stiffer. So, after listing and comparing those numbers, to me for all intents and purposes, it should be considered a powder board. I don't have both, so I can't compare them in person, nor can I compare their comber profiles side by side. But, those do seem different, so is that why you don't see the Archetype as a 'real' powder board? The Christenson surf rocker is for pow whereas the hover camber is not?

I left out the surfer since there wasn't much info on the nose or tail widths.


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## aldenowens (Jan 6, 2014)

MR. said:


> I'm about 170, and I have the 154 versions of both the Archetype and MindExpander. At that length the MindExpander has a lot more nose and a shorter tail. I think the 3D base really helps the MindExpander float great, and it's super easy to keep the nose up. With the short sidecut and surf rocker I've found the MindExpander to be really fluid in the trees.
> The Archetype is more stable, and likes to go fast. The split tail probably helps sink the tail in powder, but it's pretty long, so there's still a lot of board behind you. It's a lot of fun to carve big turns on both groomers and in powder, but it's a little more work in the trees. The Archetype has a lot more pop off the tail than the MindExpander. If I was getting an Archetype to ride mainly powder I would probably go with the 158 or 162. Hope that helps a little.


 It would seem the swallows tail will sink enough with a set back stance to create enough nose float great tree riding, but also having enough stability at regular stance for better alpine riding and handling steeper terrain. 

Have you tried that with your Archetype?


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## killerloop82 (Oct 29, 2016)

So guys, the question still stand.
Between the Mind Expander and the Surfer wich one is the better board for powder?


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## MR. (Oct 9, 2015)

aldenowens said:


> It would seem the swallows tail will sink enough with a set back stance to create enough nose float great tree riding, but also having enough stability at regular stance for better alpine riding and handling steeper terrain.
> 
> Have you tried that with your Archetype?


Not really. I ride with a pretty narrow stance at 19". I'm riding the Archetype with my front binding all the way back, but to stay with a comfortable width I can only set the back binding about an extra inch back so I don't have a lot of range to work with. I'm using EST bindings which compounds this a little. Even so the tail sinks pretty easily.


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## SGboarder (Jun 24, 2012)

aldenowens said:


> It would seem the swallows tail will sink enough with a set back stance to create enough nose float great tree riding, but also having enough stability at regular stance for better alpine riding and handling steeper terrain.
> 
> Have you tried that with your Archetype?


Thing is you generally do not want the tail to sink too much, especially in trees and low angle/low speed terrain. Reason is that you start pushing snow and slow down. In fact, that is one of the standard techniques to reduce speed in pow with a short/no tail pow deck: Lean back and weigh the back foot to sink the tail and starting pushing snow.

But what you really want for float is nice long gradual tip rise, ideally combined with plenty of width in the nose. And/or lots of surface area in general.
That way the board will 'plane' through the powder rather than pushing snow.


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## aldenowens (Jan 6, 2014)

SGboarder said:


> Thing is you generally do not want the tail to sink too much, especially in trees and low angle/low speed terrain. Reason is that you start pushing snow and slow down. In fact, that is one of the standard techniques to reduce speed in pow with a short/no tail pow deck: Lean back and weigh the back foot to sink the tail and starting pushing snow.
> 
> But what you really want for float is nice long gradual tip rise, ideally combined with plenty of width in the nose. And/or lots of surface area in general.
> That way the board will 'plane' through the powder rather than pushing snow.


Thanks for the response.

Do you know how a Archetype would compare to the Skeleton key both in 162 CM.


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

MMSlasher said:


> I understand what you are saying and it makes sense, except for calling the Mind Expander and Surfer 'real' powder boards, yet leaving out the Archetype. So, I guess I just don't know what your definition of "powder board" is.
> 
> When comparing a 162 M.E and Archetype on paper, the Archetype has .83 cm wider nose, nearly 1 cm more taper, a swallow tail that will sink the back end, 2 cm of set back. Its WW is smaller by 1 mm, so nearly equal. I know flex ratings vary from company to company, but the M.E is a 6 and the Archetype is a 7, so slightly stiffer. So, after listing and comparing those numbers, to me for all intents and purposes, it should be considered a powder board. I don't have both, so I can't compare them in person, nor can I compare their comber profiles side by side. But, those do seem different, so is that why you don't see the Archetype as a 'real' powder board? The Christenson surf rocker is for pow whereas the hover camber is not?
> 
> I left out the surfer since there wasn't much info on the nose or tail widths.


The Archetype is good in powder; much better than other boards people may think are good powder boards, but really aren't (like Skeleton Key for example). 

I guess it floats good enough to be called a powder board, but it's not one of those infinite float boards. This is fine, because for 'freeride' most people would rather sacrifice a little bit of that infinite float for the stability and go fast-ability that the Archetype has.


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## aldenowens (Jan 6, 2014)

F1EA said:


> The Archetype is good in powder; much better than other boards people may think are good powder boards, but really aren't (like Skeleton Key for example).
> 
> I guess it floats good enough to be called a powder board, but it's not one of those infinite float boards. This is fine, because for 'freeride' most people would rather sacrifice a little bit of that infinite float for the stability and go fast-ability that the Archetype has.


So in your opinion is there such a thing as a quiver killer for a powder board? I mean do it all VERY WELL. Trees,Steeps, Open bowls and handle deeper days?


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

aldenowens said:


> Thanks for the response.
> 
> Do you know how a Archetype would compare to the Skeleton key both in 162 CM.


I've ridden both in 158. Both are groomer rippers. But I prefer the Archetype by far. Much more lively and fun. Equally good ripping groomers, but the Archetype is better in pow and fun factor. 

SK is more damp and stable. Quicker edge to edge.


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

aldenowens said:


> So in your opinion is there such a thing as a quiver killer for a powder board? I mean do it all VERY WELL. Trees,Steeps, Open bowls and handle deeper days?


Yes, the Archetype.

The sacrifice is that it doesn't float THAT much. But that is fine. Example, I have a 161 Fish, 152 Panhandler, 155 Stun Gun... those 3 boards all float more than the 158 Archetype, but none of them handle speed, groomers, trees, freestyle, switch, and pow all together as good as the Archetype does.


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## SGboarder (Jun 24, 2012)

aldenowens said:


> Thanks for the response.
> 
> Do you know how a Archetype would compare to the Skeleton key both in 162 CM.





F1EA said:


> The Archetype is good in powder; much better than other boards people may think are good powder boards, but really aren't (like Skeleton Key for example).


This is the answer right there.



F1EA said:


> I guess it floats good enough to be called a powder board, but it's not one of those infinite float boards. This is fine, because for 'freeride' most people would rather sacrifice a little bit of that infinite float for the stability and go fast-ability that the Archetype has.


Yup, exactly.


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## Phedder (Sep 13, 2014)

F1EA said:


> Yes, the Archetype.
> 
> The sacrifice is that it doesn't float THAT much. But that is fine. Example, I have a 161 Fish, 152 Panhandler, 155 Stun Gun... those 3 boards all float more than the 158 Archetype, but none of them handle speed, groomers, trees, freestyle, switch, and pow all together as good as the Archetype does.


But then if you ever actually *needed* that much float, it's on the channel. Even with EST bindings I can get to a 23 inch nose and 17 inch tail, measured from the center of the binding.


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## aldenowens (Jan 6, 2014)

F1EA said:


> Yes, the Archetype.
> 
> The sacrifice is that it doesn't float THAT much. But that is fine. Example, I have a 161 Fish, 152 Panhandler, 155 Stun Gun... those 3 boards all float more than the 158 Archetype, but none of them handle speed, groomers, trees, freestyle, switch, and pow all together as good as the Archetype does.


Sounds good. I was thinking of a getting a Skeleton Key 158 for resort pow days and a Weston Japow 159 for super deep and japan.

But after reading all the posts from Archetype owners I am reconsidering. May go Archetype 162 and a volume shifted Telos Back Slash 153 for all around resort fun...... 

If yo haven't seen any info on that one... 

The 2019 Telos Back/Slash Snowboard Review - The Angry Snowboarder


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

Phedder said:


> But then if you ever actually *needed* that much float, it's on the channel. Even with EST bindings I can get to a 23 inch nose and 17 inch tail, measured from the center of the binding.


Yeah, but you can setback all those other boards too. Still, it's not that the Archetype is bad with float. Just that some others are crazy floaty. For example I ride the Archetype setback almost all the way to what EST allows; but those others, I have at reference. This is not all just looking for float, but also because I'm simply used to shorter tails... 



aldenowens said:


> Sounds good. I was thinking of a getting a Skeleton Key 158 for resort pow days and a Weston Japow 159 for super deep and japan.
> 
> But after reading all the posts from Archetype owners I am reconsidering. May go Archetype 162 and a volume shifted Telos Back Slash 153 for all around resort fun......
> 
> ...


For a single board, for sure Archetype delivers. 

For a couple boards, then your idea of SK and Weston sounds good. But still, I would say Archetype is better than SK for resort pow. So you can go real crazy with the second board because the Archetype already covers so much...


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## aldenowens (Jan 6, 2014)

F1EA said:


> Yeah, but you can setback all those other boards too. Still, it's not that the Archetype is bad with float. Just that some others are crazy floaty. For example I ride the Archetype setback almost all the way to what EST allows; but those others, I have at reference. This is not all just looking for float, but also because I'm simply used to shorter tails...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Ok great. I was looking for a reason to justifying buy (2) more boards. I will bookmark this thread if my wife gives me too much $hit. :smile:

I really appreciate all the help on this. May the Universe reward you with numerous pow days and no crowds.


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## Craig64 (Jul 16, 2015)

aldenowens said:


> Sounds good. I was thinking of a getting a Skeleton Key 158 for resort pow days and a Weston Japow 159 for super deep and japan.
> 
> But after reading all the posts from Archetype owners I am reconsidering. May go Archetype 162 and a volume shifted Telos Back Slash 153 for all around resort fun......
> 
> ...


Is the Archetype available in USA. Sold out retail everywhere in Australia/NZ. Looks like very low stock with a quick peruse.


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

aldenowens said:


> Ok great. I was looking for a reason to justifying buy (2) more boards. I will bookmark this thread if my wife gives me too much $hit. :smile:
> 
> I really appreciate all the help on this. May the Universe reward you with numerous pow days and no crowds.


Wives only complain until you have 3 boards. After 3, they throw down the towel and realize the battle is lost.


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## aldenowens (Jan 6, 2014)

Craig51 said:


> Is the Archetype available in USA. Sold out retail everywhere in Australia/NZ. Looks like very low stock with a quick peruse.



I found a couple of 162CM. Thats the size I am looking for. No 158cm to be found.


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## aldenowens (Jan 6, 2014)

F1EA said:


> Wives only complain until you have 3 boards. After 3, they throw down the towel and realize the battle is lost.


I did the same with her shoe purchases. I lost count.


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## Craig64 (Jul 16, 2015)

aldenowens said:


> I found a couple of 162CM. Thats the size I am looking for. No 158cm to be found.


I see in the Endeavor USA site they have 162 and 154 available. Full price though. I paid $Au490 for a 2019 162 ($US345).


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## aldenowens (Jan 6, 2014)

Craig51 said:


> I see in the Endeavor USA site they have 162 and 154 available. Full price though. I paid $Au490 for a 2019 162 ($US345).



Yeah, I thought I was all set with my boards for the next couple of years (silly me) until I stared reading this thread. 

So i put my Skeleton key and Weston Japow boards on Ebay. I am going to take a price loss but it seems from all the reviews that the Archetype is like a marriage of the two boards. Maybe not a great in the realy deeper stuff but that is what set back is for.


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## killerloop82 (Oct 29, 2016)

Guys I really would like some info about the Bataleon Surfer and how it compares to the Mind Expander......
You are only talking about other boards..... come on...


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## zc1 (Feb 20, 2017)

Check out this thread: https://www.snowboardingforum.com/boards/258943-japan-pow-board.html

There are a couple of guys in there ( @unsuspected and @akcom) who own Surfers. They're probably not reading this thread.

Edit: Fixed the link


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## unsuspected (Oct 26, 2015)

zc1 said:


> Check out this thread: https://www.snowboardingforum.com/boards/258943-japan-pow-board.html
> 
> There are a couple of guys in there ( @unsuspected and @akcom) who own Surfers. They're probably not reading this thread.
> 
> Edit: Fixed the link


Yes I own a Surfer but still in wrap and never ridden a ME(should I?) so can't really comment on OPs question more than the Surfer has one of the radest shapes I've ever seen.
Can also throw in the Party Wave in the mix  Looks like a fucking riot with those specs.


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## MMSlasher (Mar 18, 2016)

killerloop82 said:


> In deep pow the swallotail of the Archetype has a lot of benefits compared to the Mind Expander?
> Or the difference is not noticeable?
> I want to buy a new board that I will use 90% of the time only for powder, so I am looking for the best float
> and maneuverability between the trees.
> Thanks


With this quote, by asking that question, you opened it up and received a lot of posts about the Archetype and swallowtails in general.



killerloop82 said:


> Guys I really would like some info about the Bataleon Surfer and how it compares to the Mind Expander......
> You are only talking about other boards..... come on...


You're talking about a $800 (or $1200 limited) surfer and a $600 Mind Expander. I doubt there are a lot of people that have demo'd both. Let alone the people that have demoed either in perfect pow conditions. Call me crazy, but I imagine there are even fewer people that own both. I did a quick search and there are very few reviews of it, so it seems like the people that ride the surfer are keeping quiet. The Archetype gets talked about a lot here cuz people love it and it has a swallowtail. It seemed like people were trying to help you out there with it's semi-similar shape (not similar camber profile). Anyways, go out and drop $1200 on that elite surfer and come back and tell us how it is. You will be worshiped around these parts. 



> ..... come on...


 This is entirely unnecessary, people were trying to help.


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## killerloop82 (Oct 29, 2016)

I know people where trying to help, but the thread totally shifted towards the Archetype.
I get that has a similar shape, but the Surfer has a lot of tech that makes the board appealing and I Would like to know if the tech really makes the board ride better. 
I didnt't mean to offend anyone.


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

Yeah very few people will have tried both. In deep powder. Fewer of those are here on the forum and have a somewhat critical mentality to be able to elaborate on their performance for the answer you're looking for.

Mind Expander is probably more popular and no wonder you've got comments on that one. If you have ridden a Bataleon and their TBT thingy they do, then you will have an idea what to expect. 

Again, nobody sells Jones or Bataleon here so no one is going to sugar coat and fairy dust either of them for you to rush and go grab one... i'm guessing they're both good boards and if I got either one as a present to ride in Japan powder... i'd be stoked.


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

killerloop82 said:


> I know people where trying to help, but the thread totally shifted towards the Archetype.
> I get that has a similar shape, but the Surfer has a lot of tech that makes the board appealing and I Would like to know if the tech really makes the board ride better.
> I didnt't mean to offend anyone.


No worries, what you said wasn't offensive.

But yeah you got a comparison between the Mind Exp and another swallow tail. That's not bad.

Now flip a coin or go for whichever you think will be best for you.


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## Craig64 (Jul 16, 2015)

The Bataleon surfer gets a *lot* of pretty sweet reviews. A beautiful looking ride. Smashes powder, super fast, carves unreal. Definitely one of if not the number 1 top powder boards you can grab. Can't go wrong here other than it's not an inexpensive choice $$$$$$$$.

These video's might help you decide.:wink:


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## MMSlasher (Mar 18, 2016)

Craig51 said:


> The Bataleon surfer gets a *lot* of pretty sweet reviews. A beautiful looking ride. Smashes powder, super fast, carves unreal. Definitely one of if not the number 1 top powder board you can grab. Can't go wrong here other than it's not an inexpensive choice $$$$$$$$.


I love how the guy is like, 'if you want a jib board, freestyle board, this isn't it...this is the worlds best pow, backcountry board...this is it.' (not a direct quote) then it shows a guy riding the pipe with it. Too funny. But, there is this video ripping around on it, so it is definitely capable of it. 





Nothing like a video with the good olé jerking off carve, it's at 26 seconds in.

Edit-Craig beat me to this video after I spent all this time looking for it.


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## Craig64 (Jul 16, 2015)

He's a pretty shit hot rider. Shows how versatile the surfer is.


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## akcom (Sep 1, 2018)

zc1 said:


> Check out this thread: https://www.snowboardingforum.com/boards/258943-japan-pow-board.html
> 
> There are a couple of guys in there ( @unsuspected and @akcom) who own Surfers. They're probably not reading this thread.
> 
> Edit: Fixed the link


Took it out for two East coast powder days. God damn I love this thing. Carves like a beast, surprisingly maneuverable in tight glades for a 159. This is my first experience with TBT and I can't complain. I was originally going to take surfer + the sushi to Japan, but I've fallen in love with the surfer so it will be my only powder board. Only down side is I've never had such a nice board before and I definitely worry about it getting snatched.

I was originally worried that I wouldn't be able to straight line with this board without some chatter given the flex and boat nose. I'm still not convinced, but haven't experienced it yet. Then again, haven't really ridden in chunder.


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## Craig64 (Jul 16, 2015)

akcom said:


> Took it out for two East coast powder days. God damn I love this thing. Carves like a beast, surprisingly maneuverable in tight glades for a 159. This is my first experience with TBT and I can't complain. I was originally going to take surfer + the sushi to Japan, but I've fallen in love with the surfer so it will be my only powder board. Only down side is I've never had such a nice board before and I definitely worry about it getting snatched.
> 
> I was originally worried that I wouldn't be able to straight line with this board without some chatter given the flex and boat nose. I'm still not convinced, but haven't experienced it yet. Then again, haven't really ridden in chunder.


I really want one of these now. Seems like the ultimate powder/freeride choice. Going to have to put the feelers out very low numbers and are all sold out in Australia.


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## killerloop82 (Oct 29, 2016)

akcom said:


> zc1 said:
> 
> 
> > Check out this thread: https://www.snowboardingforum.com/boards/258943-japan-pow-board.html
> ...



I have never ride a 3BT board and I am worried that I wont like it, and the Surfer has the most pronounced 3BT of all Bataleon, can you explain the feeling while riding it? 
Thanks


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## Martyc (Sep 8, 2013)

I think the key is in the name [emoji16]
I have a disaster and you do surf them, not flip from edge to edge but more of a roll.
Weird at first but you soon get used to it. 

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk


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## killerloop82 (Oct 29, 2016)

In the case I get the Surfer, what size should i buy? I am 170cm 85kg.

And what about the Korua Dart? Looks like an awesome pow board


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## Craig64 (Jul 16, 2015)

killerloop82 said:


> In the case I get the Surfer, what size should i buy? I am 170cm 85kg.
> 
> And what about the Korua Dart? Looks like an awesome pow board


You're in the weight top end of a 159.

https://www.bataleon.com/shop/surfer-e-s-438


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## killerloop82 (Oct 29, 2016)

Guys what bindings do you have on your Surfer and what on your Mind Expander?
Thanks


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## aldenowens (Jan 6, 2014)

killerloop82 said:


> Guys what bindings do you have on your Surfer and what on your Mind Expander?
> Thanks



I have a 158 Mind Expander and have the Burton Genesis. its a great fit.


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## killerloop82 (Oct 29, 2016)

I don't really like Burton.... 

For the Surfer guys, what binding you have on it?


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## powderjunkie (Jun 30, 2015)

killerloop82 said:


> I don't really like Burton....
> 
> For the Surfer guys, what binding you have on it?


Now Pilot.... or if you want to go crazy Now Drive... Any of the Jones bindings would pair pretty well too.


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## killerloop82 (Oct 29, 2016)

powderjunkie said:


> killerloop82 said:
> 
> 
> > I don't really like Burton....
> ...


Considering that the Surfer has flex 4, so its on the soft side of medium, the Pilot and the Drive are not overkill? A slighty softer binding wouldn't be better?


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## powderjunkie (Jun 30, 2015)

killerloop82 said:


> Considering that the Surfer has flex 4, so its on the soft side of medium, the Pilot and the Drive are not overkill? A slighty softer binding wouldn't be better?


Pilot is a little softer than the Drive. Keep in mind that you can change the bushings for a softer or harder ride. I like how responsive the Drive is when im cruising through the trees so ymmv.


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

Genesis on the Explorer.
Pilots on anything mid-flex with camber. k:

I'd rock that.


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## frankyfc (Aug 11, 2017)

akcom said:


> Took it out for two East coast powder days. God damn I love this thing. Carves like a beast, surprisingly maneuverable in tight glades for a 159. This is my first experience with TBT and I can't complain. I was originally going to take surfer + the sushi to Japan, but I've fallen in love with the surfer so it will be my only powder board. Only down side is I've never had such a nice board before and I definitely worry about it getting snatched.
> 
> I was originally worried that I wouldn't be able to straight line with this board without some chatter given the flex and boat nose. I'm still not convinced, but haven't experienced it yet. Then again, haven't really ridden in chunder.


How does the surfer compare to the sushi?
You still liking the surfer this many months later?
considering a 154 surfer for japan deep stuff. I'm 170lbs so could probably have 154 or 159 but never been on a 159 in my life! Ride a 156 fish which is narrower than a 54 surfer so might be all good on it.


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## Craig64 (Jul 16, 2015)

akcom said:


> Took it out for two East coast powder days. God damn I love this thing. Carves like a beast, surprisingly maneuverable in tight glades for a 159. This is my first experience with TBT and I can't complain. I was originally going to take surfer + the sushi to Japan, but I've fallen in love with the surfer so it will be my only powder board. Only down side is I've never had such a nice board before and I definitely worry about it getting snatched.
> 
> I was originally worried that I wouldn't be able to straight line with this board without some chatter given the flex and boat nose. I'm still not convinced, but haven't experienced it yet. Then again, haven't really ridden in chunder.


Only 2 months to go to get my Surfer into some Hokkaido powder.


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## frankyfc (Aug 11, 2017)

Craig51 said:


> Only 2 months to go to get my Surfer into some Hokkaido powder.


Have you ridden it at all? 

Just seen this review on another thread: 
“Hi there. I'm the same weight as you and got the Surfer in 159. After using in handful of times I've got to say this board is all hype and I regret spending $900. 
I start with the flex; to my knowledge (and liking) powder boards, directional camber or not, should have stiffer tail than nose. The Surfer though is very soft in the tail. The swallowtail is cut super deep which makes it even softer.
3D (3BT) is ok for jibbing, but in pow it almost takes away the lift from the nose. TBH it's a park board with powder shape. (?)
Also, the sintered base is very soft. I've put scratches in it riding over some ice!
It's still a fun board for euro carving (Tyler Chorlton!!!) on slush or groomers but I would look elsewhere for powder specific board. Just my 2c” 

Sounds pretty damn negative! 

I’m worried the surfer wins people over with looking all fancy but actually is over hyped and rides crap.


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