# Why I am done with Rocker and going back to Camber



## Sick-Pow

Why did I waste all last season riding it? Pushing my front foot around the mountain, wondering why things feel loose up front, and then wash out from behind.

Don't say, "you need to ride C2, s-rocker, or hybrid camber", they are all the same and I have ridden them all. Banana is fun for boxes. Banana is fun for dorking around, low speed in the park, or just bombing without a care in the world. Hybrid has its place, but when I get "serious" I want camber. 

But,

You have more control and more speed for "serious" riding when in pow or hardpack.

Pow is a better experience with camber and a little taper (10-20mm).

And that is why I am done with rocker and went back to camber this season....LOVING IT.

thanks Dave Downing for helping me have more fun on camber.


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## Inky

Different strokes. No profile's going to work best for everyone.


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## crazyface

Have you tried out TBT yet?


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## MistahTaki

that's why i ski now.


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## Sick-Pow

crazyface said:


> Have you tried out TBT yet?


Yep,its full camber, concave base, great concept and has a place.


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## Sick-Pow

MistahTaki said:


> that's why i ski now.


vibes.....


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## AcroPhile

I love my rocker board. :thumbsup: Washing out on my back heal side is a problem I commonly notice when it gets hard packed or icy on the steeps. Doesn't feel "loose" at high speeds though unlike every other review for rocker or reverse camber boards. I don't think I'm ever going back.


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## seant46

I am on R.C I wish I could do some serious riding


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## PaulyMolitor

i have a rocker and it does have disadvantages/ but more fun than my old cambered. im giving the ns style combo for the next board i get.


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## linvillegorge

The more I ride RC the more I lean toward being dome with camber. For me, the conditions where I prefer camber generally suck anyway. I would say that I prefer RC 90% of the time.


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## Leo

Did he say more control and speed in powder with camber???

Uhhhhh...

Anyway, whatever works for you bro. Have you tried any of the Rossi or Ride hybrids? They have a significant camber zone between the bindings and minimal rocker in the tips. They don't ride like rocker boards at all, yet helps to keep your nose up in the pow.

Just a suggestion.


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## SilverSurfer

Sick-Pow said:


> Why did I waste all last season riding it? Pushing my front foot around the mountain, wondering why things feel loose up front, and then wash out from behind.
> 
> Don't say, "you need to ride C2, s-rocker, or hybrid camber", they are all the same and I have ridden them all. Banana is fun for boxes. Banana is fun for dorking around, low speed in the park, or just bombing without a care in the world. Hybrid has its place, but when I get "serious" I want camber.
> 
> But,
> 
> You have more control and more speed for "serious" riding when in pow or hardpack.
> 
> Pow is a better experience with camber and a little taper (10-20mm).
> 
> And that is why I am done with rocker and went back to camber this season....LOVING IT.
> 
> thanks Dave Downing for helping me have more fun on camber.


It really is one of the greatest marketing gimmicks of all time. 
Anything other than regular camber should be called a beginner board.
RC, hybrid, whatever, is like a set of training wheels.
Riding up the lifts and looking over at the bunny slope all I see are Never Summer, Libs, and Gnu's.
So it is obvious the marketing is working.
Companies like Never Summer and Mervin went into survival mode. The market was flooded with too many boards from previous years.
They created the hype put a couple of the pros on regular camber boards with the same graphics as the RC model and the wildfire started.

Who will be the first company to go back to regular camber in 2013? 
Maybe Mervin will call it P2TX and act like they invented positive camber.

If you want to ollie low, feel out of control at high speed, and be the king of butters buy an RC board.


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## Smitty

I rode camber for 10 years in all conditions including waist deep powder. After riding NS R/C, I'll never go back to camber. I still smoke skiers just the same... and that's what counts right? Not for everyone though, I have buddies who will never change over. But then again they are always the ones telling me to slow down while they get stuck in the pow.


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## Smitty

SilverSurfer said:


> If you want to ollie low, feel out of control at high speed, and be the king of butters buy an RC board.


Hmm, maybe it is just the rider... I don't get any of that with my board. I track my mph with my iphone and average around 50 and feel extremely stable on my RC. Frankly it doesn't feel any different than my old cambers. I actually placed first in a local boarder cross with my RC (never got first on my cambers). Haha, maybe it just a confidence boost with a new board, maybe the riders weren't on their game as usual... who knows. I'm going to stick with it though. Different strokes.


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## Leo

SilverSurfer said:


> It really is one of the greatest marketing gimmicks of all time.
> Anything other than regular camber should be called a beginner board.
> RC, hybrid, whatever, is like a set of training wheels.
> Riding up the lifts and looking over at the bunny slope all I see are Never Summer, Libs, and Gnu's.
> So it is obvious the marketing is working.
> Companies like Never Summer and Mervin went into survival mode. The market was flooded with too many boards from previous years.
> They created the hype put a couple of the pros on regular camber boards with the same graphics as the RC model and the wildfire started.
> 
> Who will be the first company to go back to regular camber in 2013?
> Maybe Mervin will call it P2TX and act like they invented positive camber.
> 
> If you want to ollie low, feel out of control at high speed, and be the king of butters buy an RC board.


Wow... This really is one of the most gimmicky posts of all time. Let's hope no one falls for it like us blind sheep are falling for any type of Rocker.

I can't wait until BurtonAvenger jumps all over this post. It's going to be comedy gold.

As for my two cents... do you have any idea who Shane McConkey is? He might be a skier, but I suggest you read his story. 

And which pro rides a cambered board with the graphics of a rocker one? Let's see your proof. Maybe you are mistaking it for the rocker version. Maybe you just don't realize that a lot of brands have both cambered and rockered versions of the same board.

Let's see, what to pick apart next. Oh yea... Ollie power. Something tells me you never stepped foot on a Ride DH2. You probably will never get on a Never Summer Proto CT. If you think boards like these don't have pop, then you have a serious flaw in your ollie technique.

Speaking of technique... either you have none or you are riding super rockered and soft boards that have no business being on a steep and fast run. I kind of think you lack technique though. I can bomb runs just fine with my Turbo Dream or Proto CT. Don't know why you're having problems Mr. Pro.

What's wrong with rockered boards being more forgiving? If that's the philosophy you live by, then start driving a stick shift car without any power steering or anti-lock brakes. After all, that other BS is just training wheels. Matter of fact, screw the car altogether and walk to your destination. Stop being such a beginner noob driving cars and riding bikes. Real men walk.

By the way, there are still plenty of camber options out there. They will always have a place in snowboarding. As for rocker tech, your post makes it blindingly obvious that you have no experience in the snowboarding industry. Rockers and hybrids aren't going anywhere. In fact, camber is becoming less and less common. Sorry buddy, right now the industry is focusing on building quality price-point boards... not busy working on positive cambered sticks.

You're also going to get a ish-storm from all the jibbers here. I'll let them tell you all the benefits of a rocker on rails.

You need to step outside of your bubble bro. I know you're a little paranoid about the state of marketing and all, but seriously... not everyone is out to get you.


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## SilverSurfer

Smitty said:


> Hmm, maybe it is just the rider... I don't get any of that with my board. I track my mph with my iphone and average around 50 and feel extremely stable on my RC. Frankly it doesn't feel any different than my old cambers. I actually placed first in a local boarder cross with my RC (never got first on my cambers). Haha, maybe it just a confidence boost with a new board, maybe the riders weren't on their game as usual... who knows. I'm going to stick with it though. Different strokes.


You are a beginner boarder cross rider, you were racing against beginners.
Post the link to your results, most sanctioned races have a link to the results of each race.


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## Leo

SilverSurfer said:


> You are a beginner boarder cross rider, you were racing against beginners.
> Post the link to your results, most sanctioned races have a link to the results of each race.


Why don't you post links to your wild claims of pros riding cambered decks with rocker deck's graphics?

Post links to prove your marketing hype claim.

I would post a few of the millions of links about the benefits of rocker/rocker hybrids, but something tells me your paranoid attitude will call it marketing BS.

What next? Are you going to pull a Nimbus and say female specific snowboards, bindings, and boots are marketing hype?


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## Smitty

SilverSurfer said:


> You are a beginner boarder cross rider, you were racing against beginners.
> Post the link to your results, most sanctioned races have a link to the results of each race.


Been doing it for about five years now. You'd know my riding skills better than me of course.

I'll get right on that to appease you. Anything else?


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## DrnknZag

Just curious, what board and rocker tech were you riding?


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## Qball

SilverSurfer said:


> It really is one of the greatest marketing gimmicks of all time.
> Anything other than regular camber should be called a beginner board.
> RC, hybrid, whatever, is like a set of training wheels.
> Riding up the lifts and looking over at the bunny slope all I see are Never Summer, Libs, and Gnu's.
> So it is obvious the marketing is working.
> Companies like Never Summer and Mervin went into survival mode. The market was flooded with too many boards from previous years.
> They created the hype put a couple of the pros on regular camber boards with the same graphics as the RC model and the wildfire started.
> 
> Who will be the first company to go back to regular camber in 2013?
> Maybe Mervin will call it P2TX and act like they invented positive camber.
> 
> If you want to ollie low, feel out of control at high speed, and be the king of butters buy an RC board.


You have no fucking clue what you are talking about. Now excuse me while I go ride me "beginner" board.


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## jliu

Leo said:


> Wow... This really is one of the most gimmicky posts of all time. Let's hope no one falls for it like us blind sheep are falling for any type of Rocker.
> 
> What's wrong with rockered boards being more forgiving? If that's the philosophy you live by, then start driving a stick shift car without any power steering or anti-lock brakes. After all, that other BS is just training wheels. Matter of fact, screw the car altogether and walk to your destination. Stop being such a beginner noob driving cars and riding bikes. Real men walk.
> 
> QUOTE]
> 
> You forgot to exclude the use of shoes Leo


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## phile00

Snowolf said:


> I am not a fan of full RC I am also not a fan of C2 or any RC between the bindings. What I am riding is the Rossi Angus with camber between the bindings and rock tip and tail. It is great in all conditions. I just rode it tonight on ice in a clinic on switch carving and the thing held an edge in a high speed carves and while I cant do it switch yet, riding regular, I can hold the carve all the way back up the hill and down again making a complete circle. The rocker at the ends make sit awesome in powder and heavy wet snow and it makes moguls a ton easier.


This is exactly why I think you should try a Bataleon board. I bet you'd love it.


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## killclimbz

Sick-Pow said:


> You have more control and more speed for "serious" riding when in pow...


Sounds like you are a really crappy powder rider to me.


To each his own, I'm rather enjoying the RC tech.


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## Sick-Pow

seant46 said:


> I am on R.C I wish I could do some serious riding



You forgot to put serious in quotes like I did. (o;

I have had the chance to ride all the new designs at SIA's on snow demo this past year.

Yes, in pow camber is faster. Rocker makes it EASIER to ride in pow, not faster.

Hybrid camber (Rome anthem SS, new Capita BSOD, and the rest) is OK, with full camber and when you weight it, the tip and tail rise. The only problem with that is the contact points are flapping around when weighted and you are still riding from the center.

C2, flying V, and Never Summer's version works really hard and solving it, but it is still banana no matter how you peel it. (o:


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## Mysticfalcon

What I like about rocker is the versatility. I dare you to show me a cambered board that I can lap the park with, ride switch, Cruise some groomers and then still take into the trees in deep pow without it absolutely killing my back leg the way that my Never Summer can.


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## Mooz

SilverSurfer said:


> It really is one of the greatest marketing gimmicks of all time.
> Anything other than regular camber should be called a beginner board.
> RC, hybrid, whatever, is like a set of training wheels.
> Riding up the lifts and looking over at the bunny slope all I see are Never Summer, Libs, and Gnu's.
> So it is obvious the marketing is working.
> Companies like Never Summer and Mervin went into survival mode. The market was flooded with too many boards from previous years.
> They created the hype put a couple of the pros on regular camber boards with the same graphics as the RC model and the wildfire started.
> 
> Who will be the first company to go back to regular camber in 2013?
> Maybe Mervin will call it P2TX and act like they invented positive camber.
> 
> If you want to ollie low, feel out of control at high speed, and be the king of butters buy an RC board.


lol wut?


I'd rebut this pile of nonsense but Leo did a perfectly fine job. Go read his post again.


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## BurtonAvenger

Sick-Pow said:


> I have had the chance to ride all the new designs at SIA's on snow demo this past year.


HAHAHAHAHA The Winter Park demo oh man. That was the worst demo ever negative 30 degree temps on snow that was so abrasive you couldn't get going once off the chairlift. Winter Park is such a shitty resort too. Sorry your validity went out the window man as that demo sucked so much I said fuck it and went and sat around a heater when I typically would ride 8 decks a day. Even the company owners and reps said the same thing not a good three days to demo anything. 

As far as the people complaining about rocker, reverse camber, hybrid sounds like you guys just can't ride to begin with. But different strokes for different folks ride what you like but at least have some valid points.


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## Sick-Pow

killclimbz said:


> Sounds like you are a really crappy powder rider to me.
> 
> 
> To each his own, I'm rather enjoying the RC tech.


Admin being an asshole? Classy man.

Where in my post did I lead you to believe otherwise about my skills?


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## Mysticfalcon

Sick-Pow said:


> Admin being an asshole? Classy man.
> 
> Where in my post did I lead you to believe otherwise about my skills?


KillClimbz was just saying what the rest of us were thinking.


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## Leo

I honestly don't understand how camber is faster in pow. You don't even use edges in real powder. When I was in Tahoe with knee deep stuff, I couldn't carve like I normally do. It was more like surfing since my edges had no ground to engage on. I'm not an expert by any means, just confuses me. In my mind, if your board floats much better on pow, then you will obviously also be faster since you are staying on top of the pow.

In powder, I'm inclined to believe stiffness, base material, and float affects speed more than any other factor like sidecut or camber...

Of course, I'm talking with proper technique and all else equal. Maybe you just aren't riding pow properly on your board.

Actually, I can see camber being faster since most pow riders on cambered sticks setback their stance. So the longer nose and more weight on the tail makes you faster in pow. Well, you can do the exact same thing on a rocker. Just because it's rocker does not mean you can't set your stance back. No you will have the longer nose and more weight on your tail on top of tons of extra float from the rocker shape.


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## Mooz

I'm starting to think this is just a big ol troll thread. Someone check to see if sick-pow and SilverSurfer have the same IP :cheeky4:


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## Sick-Pow

BurtonAvenger said:


> HAHAHAHAHA The Winter Park demo oh man. That was the worst demo ever negative 30 degree temps on snow that was so abrasive you couldn't get going once off the chairlift. Winter Park is such a shitty resort too. Sorry your validity went out the window man as that demo sucked so much I said fuck it and went and sat around a heater when I typically would ride 8 decks a day. Even the company owners and reps said the same thing not a good three days to demo anything.
> 
> As far as the people complaining about rocker, reverse camber, hybrid sounds like you guys just can't ride to begin with. But different strokes for different folks ride what you like but at least have some valid points.


Last year was much better, but i ride Loveland, so nothing unusual for me....not much new this year except camber humps (no v-rocker,) and Rome's new C2 copy.

I just do not see anything that eludes to anyone not being able to ride having anything to do with it. In my opinion, camber is better for all around riding. In pow, it is faster, high speeds, it has more control.


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## Sick-Pow

Leo said:


> *I honestly don't understand *how camber is faster



Just leave it at that. Try it sometime.


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## Leo

Honestly, I have no problems with people loving cambered and preferring it over rockers. I have a cambered stick in my quiver and love it. It has its uses.

But jeez... if you're going to argue about camber being better, don't say some silly ish like "It's all marketing hype and you noobs are falling for it."

To further his paranoia, he actually believes that pros ride cambered sticks with the rocker version's graphics???? That's just frankly... unbelievable.


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## Leo

Sick-Pow said:


> Just leave it at that. Try it sometime.


Read the rest of my post... *comprehension*... try it sometime.


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## Mooz

Leo said:


> I honestly don't understand how camber is faster in pow. You don't even use edges in real powder. When I was in Tahoe with knee deep stuff, I couldn't carve like I normally do. It was more like surfing since my edges had no ground to engage on. I'm not an expert by any means, just confuses me. In my mind, if your board floats much better on pow, then you will obviously also be faster since you are staying on top of the pow.
> 
> In powder, I'm inclined to believe stiffness, base material, and float affects speed more than any other factor like sidecut or camber...
> 
> Of course, I'm talking with proper technique and all else equal. Maybe you just aren't riding pow properly on your board.
> 
> Actually, I can see camber being faster since most pow riders on cambered sticks setback their stance. So the longer nose and more weight on the tail makes you faster in pow. Well, you can do the exact same thing on a rocker. Just because it's rocker does not mean you can't set your stance back. No you will have the longer nose and more weight on your tail on top of tons of extra float from the rocker shape.


Hell my stance is set back an inch on my Evo and I ride the mid atlantic hell hole.


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## BurtonAvenger

Camber isn't better in pow that's the truth. Even S camber which moves the position to your back foot allowing you to weight it and raise the nose up isn't as good as its other counter parts.

And yes WP demo sucks and is completely unfair to judge anything at. Sounds like you did the one run and done method I know many people that do that at those demos.


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## phile00

Each board type has advantages and disadvantages. So make claims that anything other than camber is a beginner board is ridiculous. With that attitude it would be hard to progress any sport. 

I think training wheels is a flawed analogy. If we're sticking with a bike analogy, I think the different base shapes are more akin to different sized tires, different gearing, and different size frames.  I think the people who ride road bikes in la tour de france are pussies. They should be riding fixed gear hipster bikes to show they truly have skill. That or a unicycle. Fuck it, they should just hook wheels to their hands and feet and pedal with their hands.


I really like NS's RC and I really like TBT. I think RC has a clear pow/butter advantage, and I think given equivalent purpose boards (Like ET compared to EVO) TBT has a carving advantage since it's a cambered deck. For example my ET is better in varied terrain and carving than was my EVO was before I sold it, and that's pretty significant to me since my ET is 147 and Evo was 151. 

On the camber front, I have a 2010 Burton Custom 151 and I absolutely love it. It's a great cruising board, great pop, super stable, medium flex, amazing carver, excellent on hard pack, but nowhere near as playful. I'm thinking I definitely have to detune the contact points.

EDIT: Mystic Falcon hit the nail on the head; rockered boards are SO versatile. I think they truly have come the closest to an "all mountain" claim. Especially the twin hybrids.


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## Sick-Pow

Leo, some pros are riding reg camber with the production graphics.

Burton's team riders are notorious for having poster boards (boards with production graphics and personal specs).

It is pretty well known that a Lib Tech sponsored rider is doing it (reg camber and NO magnatraction).


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## Sick-Pow

BurtonAvenger said:


> Camber isn't better in pow that's the truth. Even S camber which moves the position to your back foot allowing you to weight it and raise the nose up isn't as good as its other counter parts.
> 
> And yes WP demo sucks and is completely unfair to judge anything at. Sounds like you did the one run and done method I know many people that do that at those demos.


The SIA winter park demo was fine the first day and freaking cold the 2nd. Last year was amazing, except we needed snow.

S camber is OK, I ride the barracuda and enjoy it.

Actually camber is better in pow (with taper). Have you checked out surfboard design, specifically, rocker design and function? A heavily rockered board will be quicker to turn, but slower down the line.

Also, camber allows the whole board to rise up and "plane" faster.


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## Mysticfalcon

Well I know that on low angle deep pow a rockered board will go further than a cambered board before getting stuck and buried. Camber just has to weight the tail so much to stay afloat that it digs in and slows it down. Thats how camber floats the nose is by digging in the tail. Rocker floats like a boat, flat. Now when it gets steep its all in the rider and the lines they are taking for how fast they are going but the same thing applies.


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## Sick-Pow

phile00 said:


> Each board type has advantages and disadvantages. So make claims that anything other than camber is a beginner board is ridiculous. With that attitude it would be hard to progress any sport.
> 
> I think training wheels is a flawed analogy. If we're sticking with a bike analogy, I think the different base shapes are more akin to different sized tires, different gearing, and different size frames.  I think the people who ride road bikes in la tour de france are pussies. They should be riding fixed gear hipster bikes to show they truly have skill. That or a unicycle. Fuck it, they should just hook wheels to their hands and feet and pedal with their hands.
> 
> 
> I really like NS's RC and I really like TBT. I think RC has a clear pow/butter advantage, and I think given equivalent purpose boards (Like ET compared to EVO) TBT has a carving advantage since it's a cambered deck. For example my ET is better in varied terrain and carving than was my EVO was before I sold it, and that's pretty significant to me since my ET is 147 and Evo was 151.
> 
> On the camber front, I have a 2010 Burton Custom 151 and I absolutely love it. It's a great cruising board, great pop, super stable, medium flex, amazing carver, excellent on hard pack, but nowhere near as playful. I'm thinking I definitely have to detune the contact points.


Great post and thanks, though i take exception and disagree about pow.


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## Leo

I want proof. Furthermore, does it even really matter? So what if the pros ride cambered sticks. There are so many other factors to consider. The main one is comfort. These guys have been riding for years and do it for a living. If I've been riding a certain type of board all my life and it's how I make my living, I'm way less inclined to try a new camber shape than your average rider.

Plus there is no denying the argument that camber is just better in pipes and jumps (well, the pop aspect gap has been closed by boards like the DH2). But we aren't arguing that here. You and Silver Surfer claim that camber is better in pow??? Dude, even Terje rides rockers when he's in deep stuff. Didn't he help design the Fish?

Back to the pro rider comment... Burton huh? Funny seeing as how most of them are on Custom X and a couple of Vapors. Two boards in their line that are positive camber. So maybe some little things were tweaked for them, but they are still camber. Still don't see proof of them riding a rocker board's graphics on a regular camber.


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## Sick-Pow

Mysticfalcon said:


> Well I know that on low angle deep pow a rockered board will go further than a cambered board before getting stuck and buried. Camber just has to weight the tail so much to stay afloat that it digs in and slows it down. Thats how camber floats the nose is by digging in the tail. Rocker floats like a boat, flat. Now when it gets steep its all in the rider and the lines they are taking for how fast they are going but the *same thing applies*.


Low angle stuff, more taper solves that issue.

The same thing only applies to similar properties, which they do not have, except being one plank.


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## Mooz

Sick-Pow said:


> Leo, some pros are riding reg camber with the production graphics.
> 
> Burton's team riders are notorious for having poster boards (boards with production graphics and personal specs).
> 
> It is pretty well known that a Lib Tech sponsored rider is doing it (reg camber and NO magnatraction).


It's also well known that Burton's team riders are secretly mermaid unicorn hybrids during the summer. On top of that there's a Lib Tech rider who slapped Chuck Norris's mother then shit on the president's desk while yelling AAYYYYYOOOOO I'M GALILEO.

Making BS claims without any factual evidence is fun! 

Here's another. Chickens are actually and ancient race from Uranus. They used to be a race of super geniuses and were responsible for the construction of the pyramids. Then we discovered they were tasty and hunted the smart ones to extinction.


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## Sick-Pow

Leo said:


> I want proof. Furthermore, does it even really matter? So what if the pros ride cambered sticks. You and Silver Surfer claim that camber is better in pow??? Dude, even Terje rides rockers when he's in deep stuff. Didn't he help design the Fish?
> 
> Back to the pro rider comment... Burton huh? Funny seeing as how most of them are on Custom X and a couple of Vapors. Two boards in their line that are positive camber. So maybe some little things were tweaked for them, but they are still camber. Still don't see proof of them riding a rocker board's graphics on a regular camber.


exactly.....


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## MunkySpunk

I like a flattened cardboard box. Anything else is just training wheels for those who have absolutely no skill (we don't need to actually meet you, see you board, or speak to you to know your skill level and make blanket comments on it).


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## killclimbz

Just calling it like I see it. I've found no discernable difference in top end speeds on rocker or camber in pow. Steep or otherwise. I tend to ride a lot of it...


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## Sick-Pow

Mooz said:


> It's also well known that Burton's team riders are secretly mermaid unicorn hybrids during the summer. On top of that there's a Lib Tech rider who slapped Chuck Norris's mother then shit on the president's desk while yelling AAYYYYYOOOOO I'M GALILEO.
> 
> Making BS claims without any factual evidence is fun!
> 
> Here's another. Chickens are actually and ancient race from Uranus. They used to be a race of super geniuses and were responsible for the construction of the pyramids. Then we discovered they were tasty and hunted the smart ones to extinction.



YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH!!


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## Mysticfalcon

Sick-Pow said:


> Low angle stuff, more taper solves that issue.
> 
> The same thing only applies to similar properties, which they do not have, except being one plank.


More taper than a burton fish or a smokin pinner? 
Compare a smokin pinner rocker to a smokin pinner camber close to the same weight rider on the same length boards and the rocker will go further every time. Ive seen it.


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## Leo

Sick-Pow said:


> exactly.....


What? What's with you and all this skipping over everything I stated and picking out a few lines to respond with one line of your own?

Still no proof of your comments... Just wild claims. Still didn't address my thoughts on rocker vs camber on speed in pow.

I have a perfect solution to all this guys... Sick-Pow and Silver Surfer meet up with KillClimbz to have a race in deep stuff. Let's see who wins.


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## Lstarrasl

1. You are nuts. Reverse camber is way better in Powder. 

B. Any day of the week I'll race you down the mountain on my C2Btx Dark Series. Loser buys IPA's in the Lodge. 

I'll be in Beaver Creek/vail next week in a kelly green Jacket if you want to race. :cheeky4:


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## mjd

gimme some camber with rocker on the side please- but hold the fucking EC2. trice c2 awesome.


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## HoboMaster

You must be doing it wrong, because I ride an Evo everywhere on the mountain and I ride hard. R.I.P camber, you sent me flying on my ass and face a few too many times.


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## SilverSurfer

Leo said:


> Let's see, what to pick apart next. Oh yea... Ollie power. Something tells me you never stepped foot on a Ride DH2. You probably will never get on a Never Summer Proto CT. If you think boards like these don't have pop, then you have a serious flaw in your ollie technique.


It's physics. Think about the tail of your board as a spring. With RC and Hybrid the tail is already partially compressed and will not kick back as far when fully compressed, like when loading the tail before a jump. 
That is a fact.

So when you say a board with a partially compressed tail on an RC or Hybrid has more pop than a fully extended tail on a cambered board it makes me ask why you would ignore simple physics. Math does not lie, unlike many snowboard companies.


----------



## phile00

Sick-Pow said:


> Great post and thanks, though i take exception and disagree about pow.


Well to be clear, I was saying RC has a clear Pow riding advantage when compared to an equivalently purposed TBT board (like the EVO vs. ET). And by advantage I specifically meant less leg fatigue and easier to keep it floating. I wasn't commenting that RC is better in pow in general. I will not pretend to know that answer.


----------



## Sick-Pow

killclimbz said:


> Just calling it like I see it. I've found no discernable difference in top end speeds on rocker or camber in pow. Steep or otherwise. I tend to ride a lot of it...


here is someone, who does not suck. He likes rocker, but when "serious" he rides camber.


Dave Downing talks about Camber and his snowboard Quiver on Vimeo

original link

Dave Downing talks about Camber and his Burton Quiver | Buoloco


----------



## Mooz

Sick-Pow said:


> YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH!!


It's true because some guy on the interwebz says so! I still call bullshit. Show many any evidence otherwise and I'll reconsider. This isn't FoxNews. You don't get to make some ridiculous claim backed by zero evidence and expect people to buy it.

Waiiiiit. You watch Foxnews don't you. Fess up!


----------



## Leo

SilverSurfer said:


> It's physics. Think about the tail of your board as a spring. With RC and Hybrid the tail is already partially compressed and will not kick back as far when fully compressed, like when loading the tail before a jump.
> That is a fact.
> 
> So when you say a board with a partially compressed tail on an RC or Hybrid has more pop than a fully extended tail on a cambered board it makes me ask why you would ignore simple physics. Math does not lie, unlike many snowboard companies.


Wow... thanks for this post. You digged yourself a bigger hole of ignorance. Please research snowboard technology before you speak. Things like Carbon rods make up for the "simple physics" of cambered boards having more pop. So much so that even cambered boards are getting these carbon rods. Take the 2011 TWC for example. Jumper Cables in it now. Weird huh? A technology that was made specifically to give rockered boards more pop being included in cambered models now? Imagine that.

Of course, none of this is math. Just snowboarding facts. And we all know snowboarders are bad at math.


----------



## BurtonAvenger

Sick-Pow said:


> The SIA winter park demo was fine the first day and freaking cold the 2nd. Last year was amazing, except we needed snow.
> 
> S camber is OK, I ride the barracuda and enjoy it.
> 
> Actually camber is better in pow (with taper). Have you checked out surfboard design, specifically, rocker design and function? A heavily rockered board will be quicker to turn, but slower down the line.
> 
> Also, camber allows the whole board to rise up and "plane" faster.


It was negative 25 the first day and negative 31 the second both days sucked, I know I was there.

You're still wrong about camber and pow anyone will tell you that whether pro or not. I owned a 64 Summit and have 67 Summit R. The R flies faster in pow, takes less back leg work, and planes a hell of a lot faster. That's not even in CO blower pow that's in heavy NW cascade concrete. Both have the exact same shape even in length the 67 when you measure it is closer to a 65 so 1cm of difference. My Turbo Dream same thing faster than a cambered or even flat board, Gyrator same thing. Smokin KT-22 With D.i.r.t. rocker same thing. I literally have ridden just about everything out there in pow, camber is obsolete unless you're in some wind blown crap that's iced over on a rock field and you're just billy goating ollies from stop to stop and even then that's 99% the rider. 

I'm all for different strokes for different folks and whatever tickles your pickle. But man don't try to use some fucktarded bullshit logic that isn't true. Next you'll be saying you can't hit a jump on any form of alt camber either. It all comes down to the rider and knowing how to ride stuff. Alt camber changes how you ride a board instead of loading the camber and driving that contact point into the snow to grip you steer right under foot like a skateboard. I'm riding a technine jibstick with flat rock right now and still had no problem hitting jump 5 in Parklane or laying a turn down at mach 10 speeds yesterday.


----------



## phile00

Sick-Pow said:


> here is someone, who does not suck. He likes rocker, but when "serious" he rides camber.
> 
> 
> Dave Downing talks about Camber and his snowboard Quiver on Vimeo
> 
> original link
> 
> Dave Downing talks about Camber and his Burton Quiver | Buoloco


His explanation made sense. I think a big problem with the communication in this thread is that most of us are not being specific. 

For example, there's a difference between a skate banana and a powder specific cambered deck. The two shouldn't be compared for pow. So *if* Dave's explanation is physically accurate we can say this definitively: A powder specific cambered snowboard deck is faster in pow, while a powder specific rocker deck can make quicker turns.

On both sides of the argument making general claims isn't helping because in those cases, no one is correct. I think that what we can take away from this thread is that different snowboard designs are clearly good for snowboarding, they do NOT comment necessarily on a rider's skill, and they provide distinct advantages and disadvantages in varied terrain.


----------



## SilverSurfer

Sick-Pow said:


> here is someone, who does not suck. He likes rocker, but when "serious" he rides camber.
> 
> 
> Dave Downing talks about Camber and his snowboard Quiver on Vimeo
> 
> original link
> 
> Dave Downing talks about Camber and his Burton Quiver | Buoloco


The Kevin Jones interview says almost exactly what I said about RC being for beginners.
Kevin Jones talks about Camber on Vimeo

Don't hate the messenger.


----------



## Leo

And that phile was my whole point. Make valid claims. Not some BS ones. How pro riders even came into the equation? Beats me.

Also, I have always said that being a pro does not make you the better gear expert. Hell, if that were true, I wouldn't have been able to help out half the riders I did on these forums with gear choices. These pros usually have better things to do than study snowboard equipment and tech. I do it for a living. Am I an expert rider that can bomb the backcountry like KillClimbz? No. Can I huck myself off 50' booters like BA? No. Hell, I can't even jib anything but a wide box. But I know my gear and how they handle in general.

You might eat way more ice cream than me and have tried a million more brands, but if I work in a parlor that makes ice cream... I guarantee I can tell you more about how it's gets to being ice cream and what key factors to look for in quality flavors.


----------



## Mysticfalcon

Thats why I threw in the identical board comparison. when its a low enough angle that the rider is just straight lining the pow to get to the bottom and you have 2- 200lb riders one on a smokin pinner 159 with DIRT rocker and one with camber the rockered board will go faster and maintain speed better while leaving a shallower track in the snow. 
When it gets steeper it all comes down to rider skill and style. Different strokes for different folks and all that.


----------



## Sick-Pow

Thanks for the clarity and sanity.

Dave Downing is a legend, could be considered one of the top 10 of all time.

My opinion's are strong on the subject because of my passion and experience coming back to camber....like what was I missing, kind of reaction!!

"Better" is a misleading word and the Great Dave Downing does make that claim. That was my excitement in massive amounts of steep pow.



phile00 said:


> His explanation made sense. I think a big problem with the communication in this thread is that most of us are not being specific.
> 
> For example, there's a difference between a skate banana and a powder specific cambered deck. The two shouldn't be compared for pow. So *if* Dave's explanation is physically accurate we can say this definitively: A powder specific cambered snowboard deck is faster in pow, while a powder specific rocker deck can make quicker turns.
> 
> On both sides of the argument making general claims isn't helping because in those cases, no one is correct. I think that what we can take away from this thread is that different snowboard designs are clearly good for snowboarding, they do NOT comment necessarily on a rider's skill, and they provide distinct advantages and disadvantages in varied terrain.


----------



## Music Moves

I've slayed pow in Utah on K2's jib rocker and NS's RC this season with no problems, that's for certain. Not sure what to tell you other than "to each his own."

Also (since I ride a lot on the east coast, this is key), I never really wash out on super hard pack, crusty and even icy runs unless maybe we are talking about SUPER pitched ones on very windy days and that is just commonplace on any board. I love how difficult it is to catch an edge on rocker as well...

At 5'10", 173 lbs, I was concerned about having my longest board be 156 out west this season, but no trouble at all and in the past (with regular camber) that was a problem. Now... one could say my riding may have progressed, but I'm inclined to think that new technology has helped just as much.


----------



## skip11

Who's the Lib Rider that rides camber and no magnetraction?


----------



## SilverSurfer

Leo said:


> Wow... thanks for this post. You digged yourself a bigger hole of ignorance. Please research snowboard technology before you speak. Things like Carbon rods make up for the "simple physics" of cambered boards having more pop. So much so that even cambered boards are getting these carbon rods. Take the 2011 TWC for example. Jumper Cables in it now. Weird huh? A technology that was made specifically to give rockered boards more pop being included in cambered models now? Imagine that.
> 
> Of course, none of this is math. Just snowboarding facts. And we all know snowboarders are bad at math.


Wrong. 
All of my regular camber boards have carbon rods, stringers, or strips in the nose and tail also. 
Do I need to explain why they will have more pop still.
You are not only bad at math, but bad at getting your point across.


----------



## SilverSurfer

Leo said:


> And that phile was my whole point. Make valid claims. Not some BS ones. How pro riders even came into the equation? Beats me.
> 
> Also, I have always said that being a pro does not make you the better gear expert. Hell, if that were true, I wouldn't have been able to help out half the riders I did on these forums with gear choices. These pros usually have better things to do than study snowboard equipment and tech. I do it for a living. Am I an expert rider that can bomb the backcountry like KillClimbz? No. Can I huck myself off 50' booters like BA? No. Hell, I can't even jib anything but a wide box. But I know my gear and how they handle in general.
> 
> You might eat way more ice cream than me and have tried a million more brands, but if I work in a parlor that makes ice cream... I guarantee I can tell you more about how it's gets to being ice cream and what key factors to look for in quality flavors.


Grasping at straws


----------



## mjd

if i could ride as good as dave downing maybe i'd prefer camber in pow too. but that's not the case and i don't get to ride pow very much unless i'm off splitboarding. and i can say beyond any doubt that my jones solution with its rockered nose eats up pow at any speed. i just can't think of any reason why i'd want a full camber board in deep pow.


----------



## Leo

SilverSurfer said:


> The Kevin Jones interview says almost exactly what I said about RC being for beginners.
> Kevin Jones talks about Camber on Vimeo
> 
> Don't hate the messenger.


Ummm... he didn't say all rocker riders are beginners. He is actually saying what a lot of are trying to say here. They both have uses and it all comes down to the rider.

You must have misunderstood his comment about rocker being better for a beginner. All he was getting at was that it's more forgiving.

Again, ride what you want and stop bashing rocker snowboards and the riders who shred on them. After all, that's basically what Kevin Jones said with his comment about riders being so opinionated about camber vs rocker being stupid. At least Kevin Jones admitted to not being very experienced with rockers.


----------



## Mooz

skip11 said:


> Who's the Lib Rider that rides camber and no magnetraction?


Adolf Von Imaginarium. He's new.


----------



## phile00

Leo said:


> And that phile was my whole point. Make valid claims. Not some BS ones. How pro riders even came into the equation? Beats me.
> 
> Also, I have always said that being a pro does not make you the better gear expert. Hell, if that were true, I wouldn't have been able to help out half the riders I did on these forums with gear choices. These pros usually have better things to do than study snowboard equipment and tech. I do it for a living. Am I an expert rider that can bomb the backcountry like KillClimbz? No. Can I huck myself off 50' booters like BA? No. Hell, I can't even jib anything but a wide box. But I know my gear and how they handle in general.
> 
> You might eat way more ice cream than me and have tried a million more brands, but if I work in a parlor that makes ice cream... I guarantee I can tell you more about how it's gets to being ice cream and what key factors to look for in quality flavors.


Agreed all around. IMO in a lot of cases pros aren't really good at anything except being pros. They're usually very gifted and don't have to worry about the same types of things the average rider does. Coaches have the insight, pros have the athletic talent  It's a gross generalization and it's not always the case, but I think it's a decent rule of thumb.


----------



## Sick-Pow

SilverSurfer said:


> The Kevin Jones interview says almost exactly what I said about RC being for beginners.
> Kevin Jones talks about Camber on Vimeo
> 
> Don't hate the messenger.



Kevin Jones is the man. as leo says, he said it is more forgiving.

RC has its place. I think ski design (= some snowboard manufacturers, elan for one) is so entrenched in rocker now that we might never see camber come back. Be prepared to buy only custom made decks if you like camber in the future.

The hate is misplaced I agree. We all have a passion for what we ride and the fun we have.

I never said rocker sucks. Only that i am personally done with it.


----------



## Leo

SilverSurfer said:


> Wrong.
> All of my regular camber boards have carbon rods, stringers, or strips in the nose and tail also.
> Do I need to explain why they will have more pop still.
> You are not only bad at math, but bad at getting your point across.


Didn't I include in my post that cambered boards have them? Could have sworn... I dunno, maybe you know better about what I typed. :dunno:


----------



## killclimbz

I love how people go to the "pro's" when their arguments are not holding salt. So let's find one or two guys (Legends for sure) that have my opinion. Now let's see how quick someone else comes up with a video with someone else having the other opinion. 

Bottom line is if your having fun on whatever, than ride it. I'm having a kick with it. Snowboarding has definitely gotten stale and has a big identity crisis right now. New life is good. Who knows maybe in another 20 years I'll go back to riding camber. I know I'll be riding cambered decks early season for awhile still. 

The good news is, if you like camber, it should be easier to get great deals on cambered decks.


----------



## Leo

Out of curiousity, what boards do you ride Silver Surfer?


----------



## Sick-Pow

mjd said:


> if i could ride as good as dave downing maybe i'd prefer camber in pow too. but that's not the case and i don't get to ride pow very much unless i'm off splitboarding. and i can say beyond any doubt that my jones solution with its rockered nose eats up pow at any speed. i just can't think of any reason why i'd want a full camber board in deep pow.


Ha, good point. I too wish I had the style of DD.

I had a Flagship this year for a month. Fun board, but I did not like how flat the hybrid camber (1-2mm at most of camber under foot) and it had no dampening, super harsh unless it was bottomless pow.

I also am sketch on the made in Tunisia part. I would rather support the USA, or Austria, or, hell, even China.


----------



## Sick-Pow

killclimbz said:


> I love how people go to the "pro's" when their arguments are not holding salt. So let's find one or two guys (Legends for sure) that have my opinion. Now let's see how quick someone else comes up with a video with someone else having the other opinion.
> 
> Bottom line is if your having fun on whatever, than ride it. I'm having a kick with it. Snowboarding has definitely gotten stale and has a big identity crisis right now. New life is good. Who knows maybe in another 20 years I'll go back to riding camber. I know I'll be riding cambered decks early season for awhile still.
> 
> The good news is, if you like camber, it should be easier to get great deals on cambered decks.


Camber hopefully will make the rightful snowboard comeback. Skis are not snowboards.

Do all your posts include a personal attack or some other "call out"?


----------



## mjd

are boards that have camber between the binders and rocker outside still legit or are they being targeted for extinction also?


----------



## Sick-Pow

mjd said:


> are boards that have camber between the binders and rocker outside still legit or are they being targeted for extinction also?


No extinction as that sounds like one of the most popular designs the past 2 seasons.

2011/2012 Capita BSOD and Rome Anthem ss are 2 I know off the top of my head.


----------



## Leo

mjd said:


> are boards that have camber between the binders and rocker outside still legit or are they being targeted for extinction also?


I'd say legit. Ride just made their DH2 line Hyrbrid Prorize which is exactly that. Rossignol's Amptek is that as well.

I like that design for charging and edge hold while still having the option to float or press the nose/tail.

@Sik-Pow: I don't see personal attacks from Killclimbz. He is attacking debate techniques. Maybe the comment on rider skill could be a personal attack? To me, a personal attack is calling someone a beginner because they ride a rocker board. That and straight up saying something like, "You're a seal clubbing ****-phobe."


----------



## mjd

Sick-Pow said:


> Ha, good point. I too wish I had the style of DD.
> 
> I had a Flagship this year for a month. Fun board, but I did not like how flat the hybrid camber (1-2mm at most of camber under foot) and it had no dampening, super harsh unless it was bottomless pow.
> 
> I also am sketch on the made in Tunisia part. I would rather support the USA, or Austria, or, hell, even China.


i just wanted to get into splitboarding and this one seemed pretty cool and affordable. i probably wouldn't take a second look at the jones line for anything else. that said, this board really kills it out in b/c. i'm totally stoked on it.


----------



## Sick-Pow

Leo said:


> I'd say legit. Ride just made their DH2 line Hyrbrid Prorize which is exactly that. Rossignol's Amptek is that as well.
> 
> I like that design for charging and edge hold while still having the option to float or press the nose/tail.
> 
> @Sik-Pow: I don't see personal attacks from Killclimbz. He is attacking debate techniques. Maybe the comment on rider skill could be a personal attack? To me, a personal attack is calling someone a beginner because they ride a rocker board. That and straight up saying something like, "You're a seal clubbing ****-phobe."


Yeah, I don't remember who started the stupid debate about beginners and rocker. Anyone starting snowboarding really should be on camber so they can learn how to turn properly. Rocker can fuck with your technique.


----------



## mjd

Leo said:


> I'd say legit. Ride just made their DH2 line Hyrbrid Prorize which is exactly that. Rossignol's Amptek is that as well.
> 
> I like that design for charging and edge hold while still having the option to float or press the nose/tail.


that's a relief because i just purchased an signal omni and i'm having a blast on it. i wouldn't want to think i was just imagining it.


----------



## Sick-Pow

mjd said:


> i just wanted to get into splitboarding and this one seemed pretty cool and affordable. i probably wouldn't take a second look at the jones line for anything else. that said, this board really kills it out in b/c. i'm totally stoked on it.


hell yeah! Karakoram (on Jones splits for 2012) bindings and clips are game changers too. We had a big storm cycle out here this past week in CO the week after SIA and I was able to try some new splits with the Karakoram kits....amazing to say the least.


----------



## Sick-Pow

mjd said:


> that's a relief because i just purchased an signal omni and i'm having a blast on it. i wouldn't want to think i was just imagining it.


Signal makes some boards for team riders on Volcom, like gigi, and many are reg camber.


----------



## SilverSurfer

Leo said:


> Ummm... he didn't say all rocker riders are beginners. He is actually saying what a lot of are trying to say here. They both have uses and it all comes down to the rider.
> 
> You must have misunderstood his comment about rocker being better for a beginner. All he was getting at was that it's more forgiving.


What do you think forgiving means? 
You really are bad at getting your point across.

He also backed up my comment about marketing gimmick.

I could give 2 shits what you ride. But most of what you are spewing is wrong.
And from the previous posts it sounds like you have a man crush on BA.


----------



## mjd

Sick-Pow said:


> hell yeah! Karakoram (on Jones splits for 2012) bindings and clips are game changers too. We had a big storm cycle out here this past week in CO the week after SIA and I was able to try some new splits with the Karakoram kits....amazing to say the least.


i need some of those karakorum clips. the inner mag on the jones creates a space between the halves. it just bugs me when i look at it. i bought the sparks binders. they're getting job done. splitboarding is awesome.


----------



## tekniq33

Someone may have mentioned this before, but if you are thanking DD for getting you back on camber you should probably know his new preferred ride is the Nug (a v-rocker board)


----------



## Sick-Pow

tekniq33 said:


> Someone may have mentioned this before, but if you are thanking DD for getting you back on camber you should probably know his new preferred ride is the Nug (a v-rocker board)



Except for the fact that he rides a cambered Nug.

I rode a cambered nug in November, not production.


----------



## little devil

Shit, this thread blew up like a case of the herp.

Jesus.

I congrats silversufer and sick pow, You have success fully trolled the board.


----------



## Leo

SilverSurfer said:


> What do you think forgiving means?
> You really are bad at getting your point across.
> 
> He also backed up my comment about marketing gimmick.
> 
> I could give 2 shits what you ride. But most of what you are spewing is wrong.
> And from the previous posts it sounds like you have a man crush on BA.


Oh so forgiving means beginner/noob? Huh... maybe my English is as bad as my math.

If I have a man-crush on BA, then you straight up go to bed with Kevin Jones since you obviously searched for a video with him in it.

Sorry, the only person bad at getting their point across is you. Improve on your comprehension bro. Kevin Jones didn't say "marketing gimmick". He said "marketing hype" which is totally different. A gimmick has no purpose. So he is saying rockers are being marketed to hype it up as being revolutionary. 

You're straight up saying rockers are useless and are strictly for noobs.

Come on, keep making your ignorant posts. Post up some more videos thinking they back up your claims when in fact they don't.

I guess mathematicians are so concentrated on math that lose any sort of comprehension skills.


----------



## Mysticfalcon

DD Site

That doesnt look that cambered to me


----------



## Sick-Pow

Yeah, you are right, that is a production board. The non-production boards were there....all black in the back. Most of the reps had to send them back before SIA.

its not like anyone is saying he only rides camber, just he prefers it. I had a blast on a v rocker for about 10 days this year, the other 35 (25 deep pow days) have been on camber.


----------



## JoeR

Mooz said:


> It's also well known that Burton's team riders are secretly mermaid unicorn hybrids during the summer. On top of that there's a Lib Tech rider who slapped Chuck Norris's mother then shit on the president's desk while yelling AAYYYYYOOOOO I'M GALILEO.


I have absolutely no idea whether any pro snowboarders ride boards that are disguised to look like other boards. It would not surprise me if that were the case, however, because in other sports there is often a difference between the equipment that a star athlete endorses and that which he actually uses. For example, it's not uncommon for a pro tennis player to use a custom-made racket that is dressed up to look like the mass-market model that the pro endorses. These are called "paint jobs." Oddly, though, sometimes the custom rackets are old-fashioned models with less tech than the endorsed models. Pros often just like what they're used to.

Either way, the equipment choices of professionals should be largely irrelevant to most riders, except on a visceral, "Cool -- I'm a Burton guy too!" level. Unless you ride with the exact same capabilities and in the exact same conditions as a pro, there's no reason his choice of board, or of camber configuration, should really influence you. And for all you know, he may just be riding the same thing he's ridden for the last 10 years because that's the path of least resistance.


----------



## sabatoa

MunkySpunk said:


> I like a flattened cardboard box. Anything else is just training wheels for those who have absolutely no skill (we don't need to actually meet you, see you board, or speak to you to know your skill level and make blanket comments on it).


----------



## SilverSurfer

Leo said:


> If I have a man-crush on BA, then you straight up go to bed with Kevin Jones since you obviously searched for a video with him in it.


I think I touched a nerve. Ha
The only searching I did was in this post. Look to the right of the Dave Downing video.


----------



## Sick-Pow

JoeR said:


> I have absolutely no idea whether any pro snowboarders ride boards that are disguised to look like other boards. It would not surprise me if that were the case, however, because in other sports there is often a difference between the equipment that a star athlete endorses and that which he actually uses. For example, it's not uncommon for a pro tennis player to use a custom-made racket that is dressed up to look like the mass-market model that the pro endorses. These are called "paint jobs." Oddly, though, sometimes the custom rackets are old-fashioned models with less tech than the endorsed models. Pros often just like what they're used to.
> 
> Either way, the equipment choices of professionals should be largely irrelevant to most riders, except on a visceral, "Cool -- I'm a Burton guy too!" level. Unless you ride with the exact same capabilities and in the exact same conditions as a pro, there's no reason his choice of board, or of camber configuration, should really influence you. And for all you know, he may just be riding the same thing he's ridden for the last 10 years because that's the path of least resistance.


what Dave Downing is talking about in the video I posted is not preference, it is design.

Like a small heavy rockered surfboard, MOST rockered snowboards are slow down the line, but the benefit is more turns (surfy feel). For people with less vert, I guess more turns is better?


----------



## Leo

SilverSurfer said:


> I think I touched a nerve. Ha
> The only searching I did was in this post. Look to the right of the Dave Downing video.


What nerve? Oh, you're also one of those people huh? The type that thinks every non-agreeing post on the Internet automatically means... OMG WTF HE'S MAD ROFLMAO!

Truth of the matter is, I'm not out snowboarding right now so I'm here having a fun little debate with plenty of smiles abound.

You've went rampant with personal insults against all rocker riders and further insult me and others with your condescending "math doesn't lie" type remarks.

I'm just here to point out the many flaws in your views and the many fallacies abound in your arguments. You use hear-say and assumptions with little fact to back it up. You pick parts of my posts and ignore the rest to misconstrue my entire point. My carbon rodding post being a prime example of that. And the evidence you do present, you don't even comprehend yourself. Just like you did with my posts, you did with Mr Jones' video by misconstruing his commentary.

Keep living in your paranoid world where every company is just pitching marketing gimmicks without any foundation to stand upon. Keep assuming that rocker riders are noobs and none are better than you. Keep on spouting your so-called facts because we all obviously believe you. And keep on thinking that I'm typing this out of anger or a touched nerve (that's what she said?).

In the end, I'm going to ride mainly rocker hybrids while my cambered deck waits patiently for early/late-season crud. Maybe I am a noob for this. To that I say... SO WHAT? At least I'm a noob having fun and not an "expert" who thinks the marketing world is out to get him.

By the way, the second you provide valid evidence showing your correctness, I will gladly concede and admit fault. It wouldn't be the first time I was wrong around here. And therein lies the difference between us my friend. I know I'm not always right and have 0 problems admitting my wrongs.


----------



## jdang307

SilverSurfer said:


> I think I touched a nerve. Ha
> The only searching I did was in this post. Look to the right of the Dave Downing video.


Interesting, there are like 5-7 videos of guys all saying they prefer camber, and take tiny little subtle digs at beginners on rockers (then saying, 'but that's ok')

Bob Klein talks about Camber and his fav Snowboards on Vimeo this guy says most pros he knows likes camber. Rocker is more for consumers. Bob Klein.

Hey Im a beginner, maybe I need a rocker 

Im torn between bateleon et and ns sL


----------



## Mooz

JoeR said:


> I have absolutely no idea whether any pro snowboarders ride boards that are disguised to look like other boards. It would not surprise me if that were the case, however, because in other sports there is often a difference between the equipment that a star athlete endorses and that which he actually uses. For example, it's not uncommon for a pro tennis player to use a custom-made racket that is dressed up to look like the mass-market model that the pro endorses. These are called "paint jobs." Oddly, though, sometimes the custom rackets are old-fashioned models with less tech than the endorsed models. Pros often just like what they're used to.
> 
> Either way, the equipment choices of professionals should be largely irrelevant to most riders, except on a visceral, "Cool -- I'm a Burton guy too!" level. Unless you ride with the exact same capabilities and in the exact same conditions as a pro, there's no reason his choice of board, or of camber configuration, should really influence you. And for all you know, he may just be riding the same thing he's ridden for the last 10 years because that's the path of least resistance.


All true but if you're going to say you now for a fact they're riding a special custom version of a board disguised with the same graphics as the production model, I expect you to be able to at least attempt to back that up. Otherwise you're just spouting wide claims you just made up to try and make a point.

They could be riding production boards. They could be riding custom boards. Ive yet to see proof of either argument or even an ATTEMPT at some form of evidence.


----------



## Mooz

Leo said:


> What nerve? Oh, you're also one of those people huh? The type that thinks every non-agreeing post on the Internet automatically means... OMG WTF HE'S MAD ROFLMAO!
> 
> Truth of the matter is, I'm not out snowboarding right now so I'm here having a fun little debate with plenty of smiles abound.
> 
> You've went rampant with personal insults against all rocker riders and further insult me and others with your condescending "math doesn't lie" type remarks.
> 
> I'm just here to point out the many flaws in your views and the many fallacies abound in your arguments. You use hear-say and assumptions with little fact to back it up. You pick parts of my posts and ignore the rest to misconstrue my entire point. My carbon rodding post being a prime example of that. And the evidence you do present, you don't even comprehend yourself. Just like you did with my posts, you did with Mr Jones' video by misconstruing his commentary.
> 
> Keep living in your paranoid world where every company is just pitching marketing gimmicks without any foundation to stand upon. Keep assuming that rocker riders are noobs and none are better than you. Keep on spouting your so-called facts because we all obviously believe you. And keep on thinking that I'm typing this out of anger or a touched nerve (that's what she said?).
> 
> In the end, I'm going to ride mainly rocker hybrids while my cambered deck waits patiently for early/late-season crud. Maybe I am a noob for this. To that I say... SO WHAT? At least I'm a noob having fun and not an "expert" who thinks the marketing world is out to get him.
> 
> By the way, the second you provide valid evidence showing your correctness, I will gladly concede and admit fault. It wouldn't be the first time I was wrong around here. And therein lies the difference between us my friend. I know I'm not always right and have 0 problems admitting my wrongs.


Dear sir, quit feeding the troll. They go away when you don't feed them.


----------



## Leo

Mooz said:


> Dear sir, quit feeding the troll. They go away when you don't feed them.


But then, what fun would that be? 

Really off-topic, but... Dammit if I don't miss your old avatar Mooz


----------



## phile00

Sick-Pow said:


> what Dave Downing is talking about in the video I posted is not preference, it is design.
> 
> Like a small heavy rockered surfboard, MOST rockered snowboards are slow down the line, but the benefit is more turns (surfy feel). For people with less vert, I guess more turns is better?


IMO yes, more turns is better with less vert in pow. Some of us live in shitty areas with glorified hills. 

But I have a question for you regarding speed, since it seems you may have conceded that "MOST" not all rockered snowboards are slow down the line. If you have three decks identical in every way (size, shape, sidecut, setback) with three identical riders, one was cambered, one was rockered, one was rocker/camber (like NS)... which deck would be fastest down the line in your estimation?


----------



## Sick-Pow

jdang307 said:


> Interesting, there are like 5-7 videos of guys all saying they prefer camber, and take tiny little subtle digs at beginners on rockers (then saying, 'but that's ok')
> 
> Bob Klein talks about Camber and his fav Snowboards on Vimeo this guy says most pros he knows likes camber. Rocker is more for consumers. Bob Klein.
> 
> Hey Im a beginner, maybe I need a rocker
> 
> Im torn between bateleon et and ns sL


For people that do not know of Bob Klein, he is, and has been, an agent/manager for many pro snowboarders. He is one of the founders of modern snowboarding in Tahoe.

It is the same with Dave Downing, not many know who he is. He is the record holder for most video parts in Standard Films.


----------



## Sick-Pow

jdang307 said:


> Interesting, there are like 5-7 videos of guys all saying they prefer camber, and take tiny little subtle digs at beginners on rockers (then saying, 'but that's ok')
> 
> 
> 
> 
> phile00 said:
> 
> 
> 
> IMO yes, more turns is better with less vert in pow. Some of us live in shitty areas with glorified hills.
> 
> But I have a question for you regarding speed, since it seems you may have conceded that "MOST" not all rockered snowboards are slow down the line. If you have three decks identical in every way (size, shape, sidecut, setback) with three identical riders, one was cambered, one was rockered, one was rocker/camber (like NS)... which deck would be fastest down the line in your estimation?
> 
> 
> 
> I will preface that sidecut and length is "better" gauge of speed and how fast down the line one will go.
> 
> In deep pow, cambered even if you compared 2 different level riders, seen it happen many a time.
> 
> In mixed conditions, it does not matter, all rider.
> 
> always, 90% rider, 10% board. In really deep pow, the board makes a huge deal. Camber always will win, *all things being equal.*
Click to expand...


----------



## SilverSurfer

Leo said:


> But then, what fun would that be?
> 
> Really off-topic, but... Dammit if I don't miss your old avatar Mooz


This is fun, you guys call me a troll and I insinuate that Leo is a ***.

Back on topic.
Do think that an RC or alt camber board with the exact same construction(core, fiberglass, carbon) has more pop than a regular camber board?
Keep in mind “exact same construction”.


----------



## T.J.

BurtonAvenger said:


> As far as the people complaining about rocker, reverse camber, hybrid sounds like you guys just can't ride to begin with. But different strokes for different folks ride what you like but at least have some valid points.


exactly what i was thinking. if you cant ride, you cant ride and no amount of rocker, camber, btx, c2, robsuxdonkeyballs, whatever, is going to save you. but again, ride what you like.


----------



## Sick-Pow

SilverSurfer said:


> This is fun, you guys call me a troll and I insinuate that Leo is a ***.
> 
> Back on topic.
> Do think that an RC or alt camber board with the exact same construction(core, fiberglass, carbon) has more pop than a regular camber board?
> Keep in mind “exact same construction”.


Nope, but you know my opinion. Camber always has more pop. Some of the new Capita boards really are fun and pop off the tail and nose nicely.

Those Never Summer boards are basically flat anyways and made for little short riders who weigh under 155.

I miss the days of old Never Summer cambered rocketships.


----------



## Leo

SilverSurfer said:


> This is fun, you guys call me a troll and I insinuate that Leo is a ***.
> 
> Back on topic.
> Do think that an RC or alt camber board with the exact same construction(core, fiberglass, carbon) has more pop than a regular camber board?
> Keep in mind “exact same construction”.


Ooh, you busted out the F*G word. Something tells me a certain admin is not going to be pleased with that haha. Can't blame a person for resorting to that though when they run out of intelligent comments or proper evidence to validate their outlandish claims.

And excuse me, but I don't recall anyone saying that a cambered isn't more poppy than a rocker. The closest thing I said to that is boards like the Proto and DH2 have practically closed the gap. All things equal, of course positive camber has more pop. And furthermore, even with all the carbon rodding and laminate, a camber will have more pop out of turns. But that's not the argument you made. You made a blanket statement that makes it sound like nothing with rocker is poppy.

Three snaps in a Z formation!


----------



## Sick-Pow

My favorite board from SIA, the Capita NAS, "normal ass snowboard". Normal camber etc...


----------



## Leo

Sick-Pow said:


> My favorite board from SIA, the Capita NAS, "normal ass snowboard". Normal camber etc...


You should try the Burton Ration. A great cheap and very simple posi camber board. Has a narrow sidecut though so I don't know if that's your cup of tea. I like deeper sidecuts on my boards especially for posi cambers.


----------



## Sick-Pow

Leo said:


> You should try the Burton Ration. A great cheap and very simple posi camber board. Has a narrow sidecut though so I don't know if that's your cup of tea. I like deeper sidecuts on my boards especially for posi cambers.


Rode it early season, good stick.


----------



## phile00

Sick-Pow said:


> jdang307 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I will preface that sidecut and length is "better" gauge of speed and how fast down the line one will go.
> 
> 
> 
> Of course. I think most of us know that though.
> 
> 
> 
> Sick-Pow said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jdang307 said:
> 
> 
> 
> In deep pow, cambered even if you compared 2 different level riders, seen it happen many a time.
> 
> In mixed conditions, it does not matter, all rider.
> 
> always, 90% rider, 10% board. In really deep pow, the board makes a huge deal. Camber always will win, *all things being equal.*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I understand the reasoning behind camber vs. pure rocker. But you really don't think a rocker/camber hybrid might change your understanding of the physics of the situation though? Can you describe why?
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


----------



## little devil

Hahahah, ride whatever you like. Why is this still going?

Silver surfer should post a vid of his highest ollie. I have a STRONG feeling that the tech wont matter at the skill level he's at.


----------



## Leo

I agree with Phile... all the videos and other stuff talk about rockers and compare them to aggressively rockered surfboards.

I'm really interested to see how a board with a long camber zone in between would fair given that it has rocker in the tips for float.

Also equally interested to see how K2's flat camber hybrids would fair. My Turbo Dream was scary fast when I rode it in Tahoe.


----------



## Sick-Pow

phile00 said:


> I understand the reasoning behind camber vs. pure rocker. But you really don't think a rocker/camber hybrid might change your understanding of the physics of the situation though? Can you describe why?


I agree to an extent about certain hybrid camber designs. The only ones that come to mind that can get close are the BSOD and the Rome Anthem ss,.

That being said, Camber plus taper = even faster.

Tom Burt on his winterstick design has about 10mm as a sweet spot for taper with camber. Burton Supermodel has 10mm and that board is a quiver killer for sure.(will disappear for 2012 though, along with the Malolo).


----------



## linvillegorge

I love when someone starts talking about what the pros do or what the pros ride. I for one don't give a shit. For starters, the pros get paid to ride those boards. Some have custom profiles for sure - that's one of the perks of being a pro. Different strokes for different folks. You put a high level pro on a shaped piece of plywood and he's still riding circles around me.

Like I said earlier, there are certain conditions where camber is better, but again, those conditions generally suck anyway. I'm really not sure how anyone can honestly prefer camber over rocker in powder. It just doesn't make any sense.

You're telling me when you're dropping The Ridge at Loveland in perfect knee deep pow, you'd honestly rather have a cambered stick underfoot than a rockered one? Go for it then.

What rockered stick do you have? I ride Love at least two days a week. I've got a cambered 165 Arbor Element I'll swap you with.


----------



## killclimbz

SS, you are trolling.

For the most part this has been a civil, if not heated discussion. That's fine. Keep making it personal and accounts get banned. **** phobic references are generally treated like racist comments. So if you want to quit participating on this forum keep using "***" to disparage another member who happens to not sure your viewpoint. 

Knock it off.


----------



## JoeR

Mooz said:


> All true but if you're going to say you now for a fact they're riding a special custom version of a board disguised with the same graphics as the production model, I expect you to be able to at least attempt to back that up.


LOL -- _if_ I'm going to say that? I just said I have no idea whether anyone in snowboarding actually does that.



> Otherwise you're just spouting wide claims you just made up to try and make a point.


Don't get defensive; it makes people illogical. My only "claim" about snowboarding in this thread is that whatever the pros are riding, it should make no difference to most of us.


----------



## Sick-Pow

linvillegorge said:


> I love when someone starts talking about what the pros do or what the pros ride. I for one don't give a shit. For starters, the pros get paid to ride those boards. Some have custom profiles for sure - that's one of the perks of being a pro. Different strokes for different folks. You put a high level pro on a shaped piece of plywood and he's still riding circles around me.
> 
> Like I said earlier, there are certain conditions where camber is better, but again, those conditions generally suck anyway. I'm really not sure how anyone can honestly prefer camber over rocker in powder. It just doesn't make any sense.
> 
> You're telling me when you're dropping The Ridge at Loveland in perfect knee deep pow, you'd honestly rather have a cambered stick underfoot than a rockered one? Go for it then.
> 
> What rockered stick do you have? I ride Love at least two days a week. I've got a cambered 165 Arbor Element I'll swap you with.


I have a few rockers left, NUG with V rocker, a new Rossi experience, Rome 1985 Notch, new Barracuda, couple fishies.

When I rode Velvet Hammer, then field of dreams this Wed, it was on my supermodel, fucking ripped that shit like the amateur I am. Knee deep blower in the sun son!

Tired from a long week so i did not go up today. Had 3 days of bliss pow this week.


----------



## linvillegorge

What size is that Experience? If you want rid of that thing, let me know. I'll trade you that cambered Arbor with some cash to boot.

I was up there on Wednesday as well. Yes, it was very good.


----------



## Sick-Pow

linvillegorge said:


> What size is that Experience? If you want rid of that thing, let me know. I'll trade you that cambered Arbor with some cash to boot.
> 
> I was up there on Wednesday as well. Yes, it was very good.


167 rossi, used 10 days at most, no core shots.

How many days do you have on the Arbor? condition?


----------



## Mooz

JoeR said:


> LOL -- _if_ I'm going to say that? I just said I have no idea whether anyone in snowboarding actually does that.
> 
> 
> 
> Don't get defensive; it makes people illogical. My only "claim" about snowboarding in this thread is that whatever the pros are riding, it should make no difference to most of us.


No no you weren't making claims at all. That was made in reference to sick-pow's post to which I responded and you then further responded to my response. YOU MUST READ THE ENTIRE THREAD DEAR SIR! 

Who else is lost?


----------



## Mysticfalcon

Mooz said:


> Who else is lost?


When did this thread become something that belongs in the classifieds?


----------



## Sick-Pow

Mooz, you are looking for internet proof, but there are only facts from first hand knowledge. I have seen and rode a few non-production boards. The lib-tech thing is something I read online and saw the guy riding.

Faith, man.


----------



## tekniq33

I don't think I will ever ride a fully cambered board again. Not unless I start fruit booting or boardercross racing. With all the different variations there should be something for everyone. Even if that just means a rockered nose on a pow board. How someone could hate on that, I have no idea.


----------



## Mooz

Sick-Pow said:


> Those Never Summer boards are basically flat anyways and made for little short riders who weigh under 155.


Being that I ride a NS Evo (and love it) am 5'7" and weigh 158lbs, I'm having a hard time arguring that point :laugh:


----------



## Mooz

Sick-Pow said:


> Mooz, you are looking for internet proof, but there are only facts from first hand knowledge. I have seen and rode a few non-production boards. The lib-tech thing is something I read online and saw the guy riding.
> 
> Faith, man.


Faith is for church. This is the interwebs.


----------



## tekniq33

Sick-Pow said:


> I have a few rockers left, NUG with V rocker, a new Rossi experience, Rome 1985 Notch, *new Barracuda*, couple fishies.
> 
> When I rode Velvet Hammer, then field of dreams this Wed, it was on my supermodel, fucking ripped that shit like the amateur I am. Knee deep blower in the sun son!
> 
> Tired from a long week so i did not go up today. Had 3 days of bliss pow this week.


What!? super mini review please? With the S-Rocker did you not like that either?


----------



## T.J.

Sick-Pow said:


> I have a few rockers left, NUG with V rocker, a new Rossi experience, Rome 1985 Notch, new Barracuda, couple fishies.


since you hate RC so bad what size is the notch 1985 and would you want to sell it?


----------



## killclimbz

T.J. said:


> since you hate RC so bad what size is the notch 1985 and would you want to sell it?


This is what I love about this forum. :laugh:


----------



## linvillegorge

Sick-Pow said:


> 167 rossi, used 10 days at most, no core shots.
> 
> How many days do you have on the Arbor? condition?


PM sent


----------



## JoeR

Mooz said:


> No no you weren't making claims at all. That was made in reference to sick-pow's post to which I responded and you then further responded to my response. YOU MUST READ THE ENTIRE THREAD DEAR SIR!


I have read it, but assumed your use of "you" meant me. If it was just a general use of the second person to refer to a previous poster, then no problem.


----------



## linvillegorge

killclimbz said:


> This is what I love about this forum. :laugh:


I think people have decided to stop arguing once it became clear that there was opportunity for commerce! Here we have a poster with a good number of rocker/alt-camber boards who has a clear preference for camber and a board full of posters who have a clear preference for rocker/alt-camber. Yes, there is business to be done here!


----------



## JoeR

linvillegorge said:


> I think people have decided to stop arguing once it became clear that there was opportunity for commerce! Here we have a poster with a good number of rocker/alt-camber boards who has a clear preference for camber and a board full of posters who have a clear preference for rocker/alt-camber. Yes, there is business to be done here!


As Marx said, give those capitalist snowboarders enough razor-sharp chairlift cable, and ...


----------



## Mooz

JoeR said:


> I have read it, but assumed your use of "you" meant me. If it was just a general use of the second person to refer to a previous poster, then no problem.


My you was in context of the original poster who posted the statement that I responded to where you replied and to which I replied to.

I like this game.






seriously don't take me uh... seriously.


----------



## Sick-Pow

That Rome 1985 162 is for sale. plus shipping pics coming.

actually, PM me your email, as attachment limit is small here.


----------



## Sick-Pow

tekniq33 said:


> What!? super mini review please? With the S-Rocker did you not like that either?


Barracuda slays. The S-camber profile is a little different than other versions of S-rocker= more fun.

15mm of taper is perfect, better for me than a fish. I usually ride big boards, but I can ride this 161 cuda in anything. 

Fun graphics. I have a black base, but the production base is even more pretty.


----------



## MistahTaki

Sick-Pow said:


> Yeah, I don't remember who started the stupid debate about beginners and rocker. Anyone starting snowboarding really should be on camber so they can learn how to turn properly. Rocker can fuck with your technique.


I agree with that. I think beginners should first learn on a camber so they don't form bad riding habits.


----------



## killclimbz

I sort of disagree with the beginners should learn with camber moto. Not saying that they should learn on rocker either. I just think it doesn't matter that much. Bad habits are bad habits and you are not going to get away with them for long regardless of what you are riding. As a rider progresses and gets more skilled at it, they'll have little problem switching from one style to the other. I know it doesn't throw a hitch for me one bit. Plus if it does make a difference, it'll make for some good comedy when they eat shit...


----------



## BurtonAvenger

I went snowboarding today it was fun. TECHNINE!


----------



## ScBlack

I just wanted to post so I can participate in this epic thread and just like the energizer bunny and keep it going..going and going..:laugh:


----------



## BliND KiNK

rocker has it's place and I can carve pretty dynamic with my k2 www so.... meh..

camber is better for it.. but that's why you'd use a cambered board for carving... :dunno:


----------



## Listheeb21

Wow. This is one hell of the thread! Good thing I didn't read it on the toilet or I'd never be able to get up....


----------



## SilverSurfer

Leo said:


> Ooh, you busted out the F*G word. Something tells me a certain admin is not going to be pleased with that haha. Can't blame a person for resorting to that though when they run out of intelligent comments or proper evidence to validate their outlandish claims.
> 
> And excuse me, but I don't recall anyone saying that a cambered isn't more poppy than a rocker. The closest thing I said to that is boards like the Proto and DH2 have practically closed the gap. All things equal, of course positive camber has more pop. And furthermore, even with all the carbon rodding and laminate, a camber will have more pop out of turns. But that's not the argument you made. You made a blanket statement that makes it sound like nothing with rocker is poppy.
> 
> Three snaps in a Z formation!


So would you agree that more pop translates to a higher ollie? 

This is a great thread.


----------



## MistahTaki

the dh2 has insane pop. it surprises me sometimes.


----------



## BliND KiNK

Good point actually.. my rocker k2 www also has much more pop that my burton se7en with camber.. and the se7en has been ridden much much less.


----------



## Qball

BurtonAvenger said:


> I went snowboarding today it was fun. TECHNINE!


Me too, but a I cheated by riding rocker/camber, so i guess it doesn't count.


----------



## jayjames

are the burton custom boards rocker or camber?


----------



## HoboMaster

Snowolf said:


> I will actually go one step farther and say from experience as an instructor, that a rocker board is an ideal board for a student to learn on. Now, that does NOT mean that a rocker board is a "beginner board" The performance ability of rockers makes them a superior board for beginners and advanced riders alike.
> 
> I used to hold this outdated, opinion that a rocker allows bad habits to develop. It does not! All of our rental boards are rocker hybrid and the student learns the exact, identical techniques to make turns and position their bodies for the best, most efficient riding. Anyone who thinks that a rocker make you invincible to sloppy riding has never had a violent edge catch on a rocker...I just had one the other night in a switch carving clinic... Every bad thing that happens as a result of poor riding habits on a cambered board, happens on a rocker too if the rider does not use good or "proper" technique.
> 
> What rocker does do though is it helps reduce a lot of slams from poor technique in new riders. In any first time class of say 10 people. we feel lucky if 3 of them come back for either another lesson or become snowboarders in general. The number one complaint new riders have is the pain from falling their first few days. If a rocker board makes learning, safer, less frustrating and more fun, then it serving the snowboarding industry in ways that are hard to calculate.
> 
> I absolutely support having the new rider learning on a rocker for reasons of fun, safety and ease of progression. Bad habits will show up on any board and decent instruction will detect that and correct it early on regardless of the board being ridden so why not make it easier on the student? I think a rider should learn on a rocker and when they become a high intermediate ride a little bit on a camber to refine their skills farther.
> 
> From a personal standpoint, I will take a rocker hybrid over a camber in every condition except hard carving on very firm or icy conditions. Even having said that, I carved the shit out the Angus on bullet proof all week. The Amptech rocker/camber/rocker has become may favorite combination of rocker and camber for all conditions that I deal with in the PNW.
> 
> 
> In this discussion / argument / shitstorm of a thread about what is better, I did not see much mention about what I would consider the MOST important aspect of snowboarding and that is FUN. Regardless of the techno-babble and geek-speak, *Rocker boards are just plain FUN in and out of the park....:thumbsup:*


That's my main belief, the fact that it reduces an extra level of fear and allows the rider to be more confident and try new things, makes it an overall funner tech.


----------



## Sick-Pow

Snowolf said:


> I will actually go one step farther I did not see much mention about what I would consider the MOST important aspect of snowboarding and that is FUN. Regardless of the techno-babble and geek-speak, Rocker boards are just plain FUN in and out of the park....:thumbsup:


Nice blog.

After about 10 steps further, you forgot to read my first post......My hole point is fun numbnuts.


AASI, did you pass level 2 yet? They are getting almost as bad as skiers now I have heard.


----------



## jdang307

Snowolf said:


> I will actually go one step farther and say from experience as an instructor, that a rocker board is an ideal board for a student to learn on. Now, that does NOT mean that a rocker board is a "beginner board" The performance ability of rockers makes them a superior board for beginners and advanced riders alike.
> 
> I used to hold this outdated, opinion that a rocker allows bad habits to develop. It does not! All of our rental boards are rocker hybrid and the student learns the exact, identical techniques to make turns and position their bodies for the best, most efficient riding. Anyone who thinks that a rocker make you invincible to sloppy riding has never had a violent edge catch on a rocker...I just had one the other night in a switch carving clinic... Every bad thing that happens as a result of poor riding habits on a cambered board, happens on a rocker too if the rider does not use good or "proper" technique.
> 
> What rocker does do though is it helps reduce a lot of slams from poor technique in new riders. In any first time class of say 10 people. we feel lucky if 3 of them come back for either another lesson or become snowboarders in general. The number one complaint new riders have is the pain from falling their first few days. If a rocker board makes learning, safer, less frustrating and more fun, then it serving the snowboarding industry in ways that are hard to calculate.
> 
> I absolutely support having the new rider learning on a rocker for reasons of fun, safety and ease of progression. Bad habits will show up on any board and decent instruction will detect that and correct it early on regardless of the board being ridden so why not make it easier on the student? I think a rider should learn on a rocker and when they become a high intermediate ride a little bit on a camber to refine their skills farther.
> 
> From a personal standpoint, I will take a rocker hybrid over a camber in every condition except hard carving on very firm or icy conditions. Even having said that, I carved the shit out the Angus on bullet proof all week. The Amptech rocker/camber/rocker has become may favorite combination of rocker and camber for all conditions that I deal with in the PNW.
> 
> 
> In this discussion / argument / shitstorm of a thread about what is better, I did not see much mention about what I would consider the MOST important aspect of snowboarding and that is FUN. Regardless of the techno-babble and geek-speak, Rocker boards are just plain FUN in and out of the park....:thumbsup:


Have you ridden a TBT bataleon board? What are your thoughts on those? I am an advanced beginner (hey, I don't fall anymore unless I'm trying something new) and looking for my next board. Never Summer, Lib Tech BC2, Bateleon TBT, and that Rossignol tech is now catching my eye. I have no idea what to choose! I am sure I have very bad habits and reading this forum at least lets me know what they are (I'm a big rudder'er). What's a good board that'll hold me even when I progress past being a beginner.
Or do I just pick the best graphics and run with it, because they are all good?


----------



## seant46

I cant believe how reverse camber has kind of split a lot of boarders in too arguing which is better so fucking much. I like what DD said in that video on a page further back, one of his first sentence actually, "I like to snowboard" We are all snowboarding.....


----------



## linvillegorge

The bottom line is ride what you want and let others do the same. Who cares?

This reminds me of the old crumudgeon skiers on their skinny straight skis mumbling about all these "kids" on fat skis.


----------



## BurtonAvenger

I went snowboarding again today it was fun rode a Technine oh what what!


----------



## seant46

linvillegorge said:


> This reminds me of the old crumudgeon skiers on their skinny straight skis mumbling about all these "kids" on fat skis.


Best post in this thread?


----------



## Smokehaus

Snowolf said:


> These damn horseless carriages called automobiles are just marketing gimmicks, I am sticking with what I am comfortable with...


QFT. 

Cambered snowboards are much like phonebooks, the only people who still use them are your parents.
(my current ride is cambered btw :laugh


----------



## Shocktroop531

the thing that boggles my mind is that several times I've heard or read somebody say that they think camber handles better in pow. I'm not sure if they're confused or just crazy. because after riding banana in the pow I'll never ever go back. i feel the banana handles well on hardpack too. Maybe I just prefer a board that's a little more squirrelly and free flowing. camber feels more rigid and thereby less fun for me


----------



## BliND KiNK

buy me a nanner'... thanka you.


----------



## MistahTaki

justice has been served.


----------



## AWNOW

Snowolf said:


> As I said in another post, if that is the kind of inflamatory environment someone wants, they need to leave and hang out at TGR.


Ha, I had found myself thinking how this OP would not last 2 seconds on TGR posting stuff like this.


----------



## thetraveler

Snowolf said:


> It's a week off. The entire admin team is sick of personal attacks and childish insults in posts. There was no need to call Killclimbz an "asshole" or add "numnuts" in the reply. Everyone is on notice that this kind of thing is not going to be tollerated. The reason this site has been grown so successfully has been the friendly environment and comments like this will ruin that environment. As I said in another post, if that is the kind of inflamatory environment someone wants, they need to leave and hang out at TGR.


As long as its applied equally to everyone in the forum, admins and old members included.


----------



## Leo

thetraveler said:


> As long as its applied equally to everyone in the forum, admins and old members included.


There's actually a difference. Think of it this way, when you meet someone new, do you think it'll ever develop into a friendship if you are a sarcastic dick to them from the beginning? 

You have to get to know people before you can gauge whether or not they can tolerate that kind of humor or attitude. It's like my short best friend. We grew up together and I can give him shit for being short all day long. If a stranger or someone he just met does that, it will be lights out (he's Special Forces).

Now I do believe that the older members do need to do the same to new members. However, in this thread, a couple of new members became insulting to older members without warrant. Debating is natural especially on an Internet forum. Sarcasm, heated arguments, etc... are all fair game. Calling someone a "***" is unacceptable.

Besides, when you have to resort to that sort of name calling, you already lost the debate. It only shows how little validity your views have.

Sick-Pow was offensive to Snowolf with that AASI comment. Snowolf worked too hard to get his certifications to be undermined with an insult like that by a new member.


----------



## nzboardlife

I know it sounds stupid but i still have never been for a hoon on a rockered board :laugh:. My last 3 boards have been a Prior Backcountry, Rome Notch and Nitro Wigg... maybe its time to get my hands on something a bit different.


----------



## ScBlack

Did it take you anytime to get used to the Raptor? I found myself having to make little adjustment of my riding style going from the Jam to Raptor. It could be the TBT was letting me get away with more and I was slacking on my riding posture


----------



## boarderaholic

Having owned a board with TBT...I owned a Bataleon Distortia and hated it with a bloody fiery passion for the season that I owned it. I have my own specific style of riding and I could not for the life of me jive with it. It felt too much like I had to "tip" myself from my heel to toe edge to get the board to turn and more often than not I ended up crashing and burning. Rocker/camber on the other hand...I found requires only a bit of fine tuning to my riding style and I will fly with either one.


----------



## bsmaven

I own an old school lib tech magnetraction board (before banana, no name board, just magne traction) about 3 years old. Pretty stiff, pretty heavy its a 156 and I'm about 5'7-8" 155 lbs. Its a pure camber board. I ride in the northeast, upstate ny and vermont motly. A weekend warrior and i'm old 54. I mostly free ride but when I go to a place with a pipe I do at least 10 runs and I like to hit a few jumps until my legs get too tired. I found my board carves good, goes pretty fast and lands solid but it's hard to maneuver quick, say on trying to straighten out approaching a jump or in the woods. It feels solid but going fast straight down hardpack it gets choppy and I get chicken and start to dig in the edges. Magnetraction cuts through all the worst up here would never get another board without it. 

Thought of never summer but no magne so I just bought a gnu riders choice 154.5 rocker camber. Its much lighter than the old magne but also less stable feeling? Its like I have to dig harder and can feel the hardpack through the board and use my muscles more compared to the old camber magne that did more of the work. The gnu is faster than the old one although I think they both are sintered bases. It chatters and gets a little squirrley at high speeds but can't notice much difference from the old magne. The solid feel of the old could be from the hgigher weight and bigger size? The old one's slower speed maybe cause its an older base?

Any way conclusion its very hard to compare boards I would think unless you had two new ones o ride same day one after another exact same size and weight. I think the difference in rides is based on many factors including rider ability and probably gettting used to a board. After a while I am sure I will wonder what I like about the heavier longer more stiff magne board but there are probably some aspects of riding where it worked better. Oh well I don't ride enough to have 3 boards and see real powder maybe once every 3 years. Hopefully as I ride this more will get used to it and take advantage of its qualities but I am sure there will be times I will miss the old camber if that's what I was really appreciating in the first place.


----------



## rasmasyean

SilverSurfer said:


> It really is one of the greatest marketing gimmicks of all time.
> Anything other than regular camber should be called a beginner board.
> RC, hybrid, whatever, is like a set of training wheels.
> Riding up the lifts and looking over at the bunny slope all I see are Never Summer, Libs, and Gnu's.
> So it is obvious the marketing is working.
> Companies like Never Summer and Mervin went into survival mode. The market was flooded with too many boards from previous years.
> They created the hype put a couple of the pros on regular camber boards with the same graphics as the RC model and the wildfire started.
> 
> Who will be the first company to go back to regular camber in 2013?
> Maybe Mervin will call it P2TX and act like they invented positive camber.
> 
> If you want to ollie low, feel out of control at high speed, and be the king of butters buy an RC board.


Ha, what's wrong with being a king of butters? You know that most of the king of butters smoke all the highest difficulty trails. Just because you can't do it, you think your "old school riding" is the true way to snowboard? Phht. Buttering requires WAY more board control than your toughest double black trail you will ever encouter, buddy...including mogul trails, the bane of snowboarders.

I'm just learning butters now and no other riding have I encountered that required the same degree of full body awareness, and precision balance, than trying to do nasty butters. So go and make love to your camber board on your beginner trails. At least they all are beginner to me. :cheeky4:


----------



## Chance42

If you are enjoying the ride, who gives a shit if it is traditional camber, rc, c2 btx, btx, rocker, tbt, or whatever marketing name for camber/reverse camber a company has. Man some people take the purist and elite attitude to a whole new level, just enjoy the ride. Some of us have to travel to enjoy it and only get to ride a few weeks every season, and would give up a lot to be in your shoes to have it an hour or two away.


----------



## Sick-Pow

Chance42 said:


> If you are enjoying the ride, who gives a shit if it is traditional camber, rc, c2 btx, btx, rocker, tbt, or whatever marketing name for camber/reverse camber a company has. Man some people take the purist and elite attitude to a whole new level, just enjoy the ride. Some of us have to travel to enjoy it and only get to ride a few weeks every season, and would give up a lot to be in your shoes to have it an hour or two away.


Some of us ride 50+ days and like to get nerdy. Don't mind the 5,000 plus hits on this topic of elitists.


----------



## Sick-Pow

Snowolf said:


> It's a week off. The entire admin team is sick of personal attacks and childish insults in posts. There was no need to call Killclimbz an "asshole" or add "numnuts" in the reply. Everyone is on notice that this kind of thing is not going to be tollerated. The reason this site has been grown so successfully has been the friendly environment and comments like this will ruin that environment. As I said in another post, if that is the kind of inflamatory environment someone wants, they need to leave and hang out at TGR.



http://www.snowboardingforum.com/sn...ned-burtons-quality-control-8.html#post372452


way to be fair around here!!

Snowolf, you failed to read my original post (where is the fun?), misunderstood my comments about your teaching, let your emotions take control and mishandled justice. You banned me for being a spammer, no warning shot, not even a, "hey knock it off". Lame.

Killclimbz (a mod) insulting people for the way they ride....classy, and yes he was being an asshole on purpose....was he giving constructive....anything?


----------



## Chance42

Sick-Pow said:


> Some of us ride 50+ days and like to get nerdy. Don't mind the 5,000 plus hits on this topic of elitists.


Which is fine, I'm just saying don't knock someone for liking a different shape of board than what you ride and get bent out of shape if someone likes or doesn't like what you ride... just ride what works for you.


----------



## Sick-Pow

Chance42 said:


> Which is fine, I'm just saying don't knock someone for liking a different shape of board than what you ride and get bent out of shape if someone likes or doesn't like what you ride... just ride what works for you.


I have not seen one post that knocked anyone, except by a mod. My Original post was about fun!


----------



## MistahTaki

Sick-Pow said:


> I have not seen one post that knocked anyone, except by a mod. My Original post was about fun!


how did you get your ban lifted? lol


----------



## BurtonAvenger

Someone is a giant fucking pussy. WAH WAH WAH WAH WAH WAH I got banned for being a douche bag WAH WAH WAH Oh no the intarwebz is serious bidness!


----------



## Smokehaus

Sick-Pow said:


> I have not seen one post that knocked anyone, except by a mod. My Original post was about fun!


----------



## killclimbz

killclimbz said:


> Sounds like you are a really crappy powder rider to me.
> 
> 
> To each his own, I'm rather enjoying the RC tech.


I know this wasn't the nicest thing to say, but it is how I saw it. I ride wild snow, that is all I ride. I'd say I have a little experience with riding powder on different styles of camber, rocker, whatever. 

I also, did not say you were and beside for the above statement, I've left it alone. I am okay with some retaliation, harsh comments. 

You blatantly went after snowolf and other members. Not exactly endearing yourself to them. It was wolfie's decision to put a temporary ban on your account for which I support.

How you handle this in the future is up to you. People are not going to agree with you on here, how far you take it is your choice.

And welcome back.


----------



## Mysticfalcon

I do love that movie. The sequel however was a steaming pile.


----------



## rasmasyean

It's just like "shaped skiis". 

OMG, having a sidecut on your skii will ruin your form and make you lazy. It's for beginners and lazy ppl who don't know how to turn! You need to be a real man like me and muscle out the wooden chopsticks that my eskimo great grandfather gave me when we were hunting whale! 

The other thing is that some ppl think since they like to take the lift and carve down every trail at high speed...like 30 times per day...that's all there is to snowboarding and that's "fun" for everyone. I mean, why do you think there are so many young ppl in parks and stuff. Because, when you are young, you learn fast and very early on you may find that "bombing trails" is like the most boring activity that has very little challenge and/or variety. And for everyone else who isn't trying to go for the GS gold, maybe they also want to mess arround and "dance and pose" in the snow.


----------



## BliND KiNK

I uhm rode an EVO yesterday the RC felt really weird... I'm sure I'd grow into it but my comfort zone is in full camber or full rocker boards at the moment.


----------



## snowfiend

I just bought an evo and i havent had the chance to ride it yet so im hoping our opinions will differ :laugh:


----------



## BliND KiNK

Oh no I'm sure you'll love it... I just tried to ride it like a full rocker... and it isn't.. I could definitely see where I had been cheating my stance a little bit...


----------



## MistahTaki

BliND KiNK said:


> I uhm rode an EVO yesterday the RC felt really weird... I'm sure I'd grow into it but my comfort zone is in full camber or full rocker boards at the moment.


it's because you live in nebraska.


----------



## Sick-Pow

BurtonAvenger said:


> Someone is a giant fucking pussy. WAH WAH WAH WAH WAH WAH I got banned for being a douche bag WAH WAH WAH Oh no the intarwebz is serious bidness!



Dude, you off your meds? Get a hold of yourself.


----------



## Inky

Lolol I love how the most flaming and insults on these forums are in threads about which way your snowboard is bent, and threads about sensitive topics like religion are totally civilized.


----------



## rasmasyean

Inky said:


> Lolol I love how the most flaming and insults on these forums are in threads about which way your snowboard is bent, and threads about sensitive topics like religion are totally civilized.


STFU Mofo! You're just jealous because you got a small banana!


----------



## StarCommand

I prefer to flip my board over, mount my bindings on the base, and ride it that way.


----------



## Qball

StarCommand said:


> I prefer to flip my board over, mount my bindings on the base, and ride it that way.


Reverse Reverse Camber? Brilliant!


----------



## StarCommand

Qball said:


> Reverse Reverse Camber? Brilliant!


I'm marketing it as Ass-Backwards Camber.
I've also incorporated a Magne-Traction-esqu edge technology that I like to call The Saw. It's made from the serrated blades of two-man log saws.

Still working on my binding tech. So far the sketches involve bare feet and four inch wood nails.

Always progressing.


----------



## BurtonAvenger

It's reverse rocker.


----------



## BliND KiNK

yes... but as you can see with these detailed business plans....

1. Market a new concept that isn't new.
2. Give it a hipster name.
3. ?????
4. PROFIT!!!


----------



## snowfiend

you mad? :J


----------



## StarCommand

So, reverse rocker is the new camber?


----------



## Nefarious

BliND KiNK said:


> yes... but as you can see with these detailed business plans....
> 
> 1. Market a new concept that isn't new.
> 2. Give it a hipster name.
> 3. ?????
> 4. PROFIT!!!


This plan would fail without step 3. Anon approves.


----------



## snowfiend

do they have cambered noodles? if not... $$$ haha


----------



## MistahTaki

snowfiend said:


> do they have cambered noodles? if not... $$$ haha


of course there are.


----------



## snowfiend

what about rocker thats stiff as a board?


----------



## MistahTaki

of course.


----------



## Triple8Sol

StarCommand said:


> I've also incorporated a Magne-Traction-esqu edge technology that I like to call The Saw. It's made from the serrated blades of two-man log saws.


As stupid as it sounds, and is, YES has something like that. Retarded.


----------



## StarCommand

Zig zag camber. 

__/\/\/\/\__

Bindings go where you can fit them.


----------



## StarCommand

Triple8Sol said:


> As stupid as it sounds, and is, YES has something like that. Retarded.


Fantastic. Doubles as a steak knife. For a giant.


----------



## Leo

Just make a hover board. Edge hold need not apply anymore. Or camber profile for that matter.


----------



## SilverSurfer

rasmasyean said:


> Ha, what's wrong with being a king of butters? You know that most of the king of butters smoke all the highest difficulty trails. Just because you can't do it, you think your "old school riding" is the true way to snowboard? Phht. Buttering requires WAY more board control than your toughest double black trail you will ever encouter, buddy...including mogul trails, the bane of snowboarders.
> 
> I'm just learning butters now and no other riding have I encountered that required the same degree of full body awareness, and precision balance, than trying to do nasty butters. So go and make love to your camber board on your beginner trails. At least they all are beginner to me. :cheeky4:


Thanks for supporting my point.
Butters are a beginner trick. You are a beginner.


----------



## Leo

SilverSurfer said:


> Thanks for supporting my point.
> Butters are a beginner trick. You are a beginner.


That response didn't even make sense in respect to ramasyean's post.

Something tells me that if Silver Surfer was a skier, he'd be one of those anti-shaped skis old farts.


----------



## BurtonAvenger

Guess Mike Ranquet was a beginner with those insane butter tricks he did.


----------



## BliND KiNK

Successful troll is successful.


----------



## Sick-Pow

BliND KiNK said:


> Successful troll is successful.


Shut the hell up and come on out to Colorado and ride some POW yo!

10,000 views and 22 pages is not a troll topic BTW FTW.


----------



## Sick-Pow

And, how do I have -58,000 credits? WTF?


----------



## BurtonAvenger

someones upset that their non real credits are in the negatives.


----------



## schmitty34

what the hell are those credits anyway? I've been bumming for over a year about my negative credits. I've been waiting for one of the mods to ask me to pay up.


----------



## linvillegorge

schmitty34 said:


> what the hell are those credits anyway? I've been bumming for over a year about my negative credits. I've been waiting for one of the mods to ask me to pay up.


Who knows, who cares. I've never paid any attention to them and I didn't think anyone else did either.


----------



## Sick-Pow

linvillegorge said:


> Who knows, who cares. I've never paid any attention to them and I didn't think anyone else did either.



I just saw them and was tripping out.....the dude above you "bumming out" about them though is another story....ride some pow!


----------



## eastCOASTkills

Since when is snowboarding like basketball or football? Those sports are confined inside a rectangle and involve rules that you have to follow. Last time I checked snowboarding has no rules, just a board and some snow and you're having a good time. When dudes start saying "rocker's stupid, it's time to get serious and ride some camber". If it's time to "get serious" then you should probably change your mindset or just quit snowboarding, because our culture doesn't need douchebags like you. Snowboarding's not about being the fastest down a steep (unless it's against a skier) and "getting serious". It's about not being confined by what others think is "cool" or "right" or "serious", it's about riding to your own sense of fun and riding in a way that progress yourself and makes you happy. Snowboarding's pretty god damn fun if you ask me.


----------



## schmitty34

Sick-Pow said:


> I just saw them and was tripping out.....the dude above you "bumming out" about them though is another story....ride some pow!


Come on....you didn't think I was serious about bumming over the credits did you? I guess sarcasm doesn't go over very well in the written form. I was poking fun at you for caring :cheeky4:

I thought I made it obvious when I said I was waiting for the mods to ask me to pay up....I mean seriously, pay up on my negative credits :dunno:


----------



## schmitty34

linvillegorge said:


> Who knows, who cares. I've never paid any attention to them and I didn't think anyone else did either.


Yea, that's easy for you to say....you don't owe the forum over 8,000 credits!! (sarcasm emphasized)


----------



## schmitty34

eastCOASTkills said:


> It's about not being confined by what others think is "cool" or "right" or "serious", it's about riding to your own sense of fun and riding in a way that progress yourself and makes you happy. Snowboarding's pretty god damn fun if you ask me.


I agree with this, but obviously not all snowboarders think this way. Just check the outerwear section of this forum and see how many people are concerned about which pants look good with their new jacket. Or worse yet, how many people decide on bindings based on how well they match the graphics of their board. 

I agree though, if rocker is going to help me have more fun....then my next board is going to have rocker damnit! 

I was actually very tempted to by a 160 K2 Turbo Dream for 40% just 20 minutes ago....still thinking about it.


----------



## Sick-Pow

What happened to the love in this thread?

Oh, I know where it went. 

Leo got all butthurt at Silversurfer, blammed it all on me this past week (Leo, do you get confused much?), 85% of the rest ride Never Summer. 

end of thread.


----------



## Leo

Sick-Pow said:


> What happened to the love in this thread?
> 
> Oh, I know where it went.
> 
> Leo got all butthurt at Silversurfer, blammed it all on me this past week (Leo, do you get confused much?), 85% of the rest ride Never Summer.
> 
> end of thread.


Actually, I mentioned both you and Silversurfer. Silversurfer for his trolling and you for your hypocritical views on camber all while you push a rockered Illuminati snowboard.

I thought we squashed this stupid little beef in the other thread? Are we back to throwing Internet punches?


----------



## Cr0_Reps_Smit

wait, whats wrong with never summer?...


----------



## Sick-Pow

Cr0_Reps_Smit said:


> wait, whats wrong with never summer?...


nothing.

1234567


----------



## CheeseForSteeze

I'll posit a hypothetical and say that reverse camber and hybrid cambers boards are "more forgiving" and make certain types of riding easier than with traditional camber? What is wrong with that? It would be stupid to purposely handicap yourself, especially if you do a lot of jib-park and urban riding where being technical requires a catch free board. And to what ends? Saying you aren't a noob?

That would be like saying atheletes who train with nutritional supplements or teams who spend lots of money to get marquee franchise players are "noobs". If different technologies, techniques or whatever tool you can think of were really impacting competition to the point of altering the sport in a way the community in large didn't want, a regulating body would impose a sanction against that tool. Anabolic steroids and HGH are illegal in most professional sports (although just about most pro NFL players use them) because the community around these sports sanctioning bodies have drawn a line as to what means competitiors should take to be the best without endangering their health ... one I happen to disagree with. The FIA outlawed ~2009 Traction Control and Stability Control Systems in Formula 1 because the racing had become unexciting. Fans had been bitching about this since the turn of the century.

Has TTR, X-Games, The Olympics, US Open restricted use to only cambered boards? No? Then why the hell should it matter? It's not as though if all the riders on the Dew Tour or TTR were forced to use cambered decks, I could just hop on an Evo or SL and crush the tour. I could easily with a cambered board, too. I KID I KID!

The deck is just a small part of the rider and the rider should use whatever tools he can to make himself better. End of story. I love my Evo. I drive almost 800 miles roundtrip every weekend in the winter from MD to ride Vermont and I need one set-up quiver that is bombproof and versatile so I can get first chair to last chair without worrying about anything else. Anything that gets in the way of me riding can go get fucked. I'll ride another deck than NS R&C when I find one better.


----------



## thetraveler

Is there any trick that cannot be done on every camber profile? I don't think so. So, its each to their own as far as camber profiles are concerned. As long as you are stomping shit who cares if you do it strapped onto a decrepit old nun or a baby seal or a hybrid spacedeck.


----------



## ev13wt

Everything has its place.


----------



## SilverSurfer

Read post #12 of this thread. I can see the future.

Never Summer - Played out.
Snowboarding Forum - Played out.


----------



## Efilnikufesin

SilverSurfer said:


> Read post #12 of this thread. I can see the future.
> 
> Never Summer - Played out.
> Snowboarding Forum - Played out.


Did you really just dig up this 2 year old thread to troll it once again?


----------



## extra0

linvillegorge said:


> The more I ride RC the more I lean toward being dome with camber. For me, the conditions where I prefer camber generally suck anyway. I would say that I prefer RC 90% of the time.


I'm surprised this thread had 23 pages when that post (on the first page) should have ended it.


----------



## Leo

SilverSurfer said:


> Read post #12 of this thread. I can see the future.
> 
> Never Summer - Played out.
> Snowboarding Forum - Played out.












Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## binarypie

rofl 10char


----------



## blunted_nose

Since im here. Camber for pow. Camber for everything else. Rocker for pussies.


----------



## ThunderChunky

I gotta say when I rode rocker in pow for the first time it was disappointing. Felt loose and like I couldn't feel my board. I'll admit I like rocker for those landings when I scrub because I land instead of catching and falling, but other than that I hate it. I also noticed how much more camber throws you into spins. Much more responsive. These are not facts people, just experience. I like it better in pow, doesn't mean it's better.


----------



## ThunderChunky

Man, I gotta start learning what year it is.....:dunno::dizzy:


----------



## Supra

blunted_nose said:


> Since im here. Camber for pow. Camber for everything else. Rocker for pussies.


what boards do you have again? billy goat, lobster and did you end up getting a hovercraft?:laugh:


----------



## sxdaca

After 25 days this season riding rocker I went back to my custom today and I loved the feeling of control and the confidence of landing kickers


----------



## Cr0_Reps_Smit

I rode a 149 rocker-ed board all day yesterday on breck jumps 1-6. It was quite fun.


----------



## CK93

Yeah, Ford is better than Chevy! haha


----------



## ShredLife




----------



## blunted_nose

Supra said:


> what boards do you have again? billy goat, lobster and did you end up getting a hovercraft?:laugh:


Yea, but i sold my billy and im planning on the unity whale. Notice it has camber and then a bit of rocker in the nose for float. But camber gives it power. Same as hovercraft. Keeping my lobster. Fuck rc or rocker, that shit is cheating.


----------



## Cr0_Reps_Smit

blunted_nose said:


> Yea, but i sold my billy and im planning on the unity whale. Notice it has camber and then a bit of rocker in the nose for float. But camber gives it power. Same as hovercraft. Keeping my lobster. Fuck rc or rocker, that shit is cheating.


cool, i'll cheat all day.


----------



## redlude97

blunted_nose said:


> Yea, but i sold my billy and im planning on the unity whale. Notice it has camber and then a bit of rocker in the nose for float. But camber gives it power. Same as hovercraft. Keeping my lobster. Fuck rc or rocker, that shit is cheating.


In no way is rocker in the nose cheating in pow :thumbsup:


----------



## J.Schaef

redlude97 said:


> In no way is rocker in the nose cheating in pow :thumbsup:


Jeeebus, would every one just shut up.

Some people like rocker, some people like camber, some like both. Who the hell cares.

I don't like tomatoes. 

Or mushrooms. 

I do like rocker boards, camber boards, and hybrid boards. That is why I own at least one of each. 

/thread


----------



## Efilnikufesin

Die moronic zombie thread DIE!


----------



## trapper




----------



## poutanen

Well since this thread is back in fine form...

ROCKER IS FOR PUSSIES!!! :yahoo:


----------



## Whoracle

You know what is for beginners? Purpose designed snowboard boots. I now only wear Timberland Work Boots for riding.


----------



## trapper

Whoracle said:


> You know what is for beginners? Purpose designed snowboard boots. I now only wear Timberland Work Boots for riding.


Work boots are for pussies. Fucking flip flops. That's where it's at.


----------



## MistahTaki

ShredLife said:


>


holy shit thats hilarious. is that just some random kid in the crowd of a sports game? :eusa_clap:


----------



## Rip154

Lesley_F said:


> Hi, for good control of the board you need to have a pretty strong and healthy body, because riding on the board is a very difficult task, since the load is on all muscle groups, and accordingly, the tone should be maximum, for fast muscle building and in general body weight, you can visit this site Home - Anabolic Menu and get acquainted with all the possibilities of quick pumping of the body.


How does this help with dorsiflexion at all?


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## Surgeon

Lesley_F said:


> Hi, for good control of the board you need to have a pretty strong and healthy body, because riding on the board is a very difficult task, since the load is on all muscle groups, and accordingly, the tone should be maximum, for fast muscle building and in general body weight, you can visit this site Home - Anabolic Menu and get acquainted with all the possibilities of quick pumping of the body.


Can you get me in touch with that south-african prince who wants me to help him by sending him money? I lost his email...


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## Paxford

Wow. What a thread.


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