# Strewth Bindings - New Speed Entry System



## Strewth (Sep 18, 2012)

Hi guys. Yes, this is another post for a new Kickstarter campaign.

While we know the reception these posts can often get, we hope this one is worth a few minutes of your time.

In the interests of following the forum rules, there is a video attached, and while it wasn't made specifically for the forums we hope it does the job, and tells you a bit of what we're about.

Here's the link: Next Generation Step-In Snowboard Bindings | Indiegogo

Give us your honest feedback. We're thick skinned Aussies so the usual gentle treatment of this forum is not likely to offend.

Cheers and thanks for reading.


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## BurtonAvenger (Aug 14, 2007)

I see a solution that's already been done by 4 other binding companies. Also is it really that hard to bend at the waist and strap in? I haven't sat down to strap in, in about oh 15 years. 

Looking at the design of it I can already see that it's flawed. You have more moving parts which = more potential for problems. Your baseplate is too thick and will deaden the feel. I'm guessing it's this thick to make room for the lever which has to function to release the straps. 

Also do you feel 100k is enough start up capital to make molds? Which factory are you using for this? Why do you feel your product is so much better than what is on the market from established brands? What is your 1, 3,5,8, and 10 year plan?

The way I look at it, yet another company making an inferior product. I can see that now in the way you're prototyping and knowing that it takes at least 2 if not 3 to 4 years to get a binding to where it needs to be.


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## Donutz (May 12, 2010)

I'm a little more positive than BA, but you have to remember that he's got a lot more years in the industry -- and he reviews gear for a living. I'm just an end-user. And a tech nerd. Also I own Flows so I'm already a fringe nutcase. 

Anyway, criticisms are more useful than compliments, so here's mine in no particular order:

1) I agree with BA about the base. It looks too thick and it's off-putting. If you can't physically shrink it any, maybe you can disguise it in the design.

2) My concern is that because the mechanism is invisible (unlike Flow or Cinch) I tend not to trust it. You're going to have trust issues, so you'd better have a damned good warranty and make a big deal out of it.

3) You're at a disadvantage for the North American market because of your location. You need to establish an American presence. Example I'd think of is Ruroc helmets. UK based only, mail-order only, and I won't buy one even though I kind of like them (told you I'm a tech nerd). Like a lot of people, I'd like to see one first.

4) On the don't-trust-the-mechanism front, these things will need to be publicly play-tested a lot. I'd be concerned about accidental release, either from snow pushing up the lever, jarring impacts triggering the release, or just hard riding forcing it open.

5) Ugly. I know this is shallow, and I know this is a prototype, but that's why we have Photoshop. Put together some sexy sample production designs.

I don't know how ready-for-prime-time your prototypes are, but you could consider sending a couple of sets to some independant testers like Snowolf or BA (if you can get him to stop laughing). Hell, I'd be happy to try them out but I have no rep so doubt that would help you much.


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## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

I put your video on mute when I watched.

Did you do ANY market research of real snowboarders? If you had you'd know you are trying to fix a problem that doesn't exist. Head on over to the board room and take a look at page one of the 2014 gear thread. Flow. that is your main competitor. Can you honestly say that your stuff will out perform? 

And does anyone else remember the last time we had hands free entry bindings? Clicker. Typing that sends shivers down my spine.


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## Donutz (May 12, 2010)

I'm a Flow user, and that's after having tried Cinch's. I also own some Rome 390s but rarely use them. But there are some things about Flows that do piss me off. There's room for a different design IF it's demonstratably better in at least some areas. But having said that, you _are_ fighting over a piece of a fixed-size pie. Bit of an uphill battle.


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## slyder (Jan 18, 2010)

Donutz said:


> 4) On the don't-trust-the-mechanism front, these things will need to be publicly play-tested a lot. I'd be concerned about accidental release, either from snow pushing up the lever, jarring impacts triggering the release, or just hard riding forcing it open.


I never thought of this when I watched the video but it is a valid point. Especially since Flow's did have an issue with snow pack forcing the ratchets tighter.

Another point of possible failure. Freezing up?? Is it possible for snow to pack in that lever area and 'not' allow it to release. 

Thoughts from a fellow Flow user, 4 pairs under my belt. No industry experience just a fellow end-user like Donutz and many others. Doesn't mean our points are any less valid than those with a much greater experience though.


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## BigmountainVMD (Oct 9, 2011)

I like the idea, and I think there is a niche there that if you could make a BETTER binding than Flow you could take them, but like others have said, there are a lot of things that would have to work flawlessly for you to pull it off.

- Mechanics need to be worked out so there are no failures... including freezing of the locking apparatus or snow packing in there.

- Baseplate is thick... and I can imagine the whole thing isn't exactly light.

- Since the heel cup moves, I can see there being a lack of response even when locked in. If it is not 100% solid and immovable when locked, both heel and toe turns would not be responsive and the whole binding will be sloppy.

- Have you done and stress tests at different angles to see if it is possible to eject from these bindings during a fall?

I'm not concerned with cool colors and designs at this point, and I don't know why anyone would be. This is a prototype... colors and graphics should be the last thing you are thinking about with this new design.


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## Donutz (May 12, 2010)

BigmountainVMD said:


> - Since the heel cup moves, I can see there being a lack of response even when locked in. If it is not 100% solid and immovable when locked, both heel and toe turns would not be responsive and the whole binding will be sloppy.


with the additional question of whether it would stay tight after some hard use. If the thing starts to get sloppy after a couple of months I sure wouldn't replace it with another of the same.


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## corneilli (Nov 26, 2012)

I agree with all above. Especially with the publicity, you will need some testers like snowolf or BA to test and review them in a good (or bad) way. 

Maybe you can to a little tombola and send a pair to the winners to review them? :thumbsup:


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## Strewth (Sep 18, 2012)

Thanks for the replies. All good constructive stuff.

I did post a reply but it's disappeared into the internet, so sorry if this is a double up.

The main point to keep in mind is, this is a prototype. We haven't focused on making it pretty yet. The main point up to now has been to prove the concept.

Yes, the baseplate is thick. This is due to the prototype materials not being as strong as production materials, and therefore we've had to compensate. In and end production model with production materials the baseplate would be a normal thckness.

We have done a fair bit of stress testing so far, and even with prototype materials the binding has held up well. We'll be doing full scale stress testing with production materials and more riders come this southern winter.

Also, we're not aiming to be the next megacorp, just focusing on a niche market. There are people who liked step-ins, even with the problems, and some people just don't like Flows etc.

Thanks for all the comments and please keep them coming.


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## BurtonAvenger (Aug 14, 2007)

Strewth said:


> Thanks for the replies. All good constructive stuff.
> 
> I did post a reply but it's disappeared into the internet, so sorry if this is a double up.
> 
> ...


Evasive question dodger is evasive. Right now by not answering any of the questions posed you've proven to me that I will never support you. Seems to me this is another "we're too afraid to invest/leverage ourselves" scheme at getting to use other peoples money to play with.


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## BigmountainVMD (Oct 9, 2011)

I think it is just obvious they need some real world testing for many seasons (assuming nothing goes wrong mechanically) before any of those questions can be answered.


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## TorpedoVegas (Dec 25, 2011)

I don't like them... it's been done... you missed the party. Next!!!!


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## MarshallV82 (Apr 6, 2011)

I'm with BA. 

It's just not that hard to strap in and it's way more comforting.


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## BurtonAvenger (Aug 14, 2007)

BigmountainVMD said:


> I think it is just obvious they need some real world testing for many seasons (assuming nothing goes wrong mechanically) before any of those questions can be answered.


Well ideally yeah. But they claim 10 years of designing and testing. That right there is a decade of experience. The average snowboard company lasts less than half of that. It just bothers me when anyone asks a legitimate question about a brand and they dodge the question or use some kind of lame rhetoric to try and devalue the person asking the questions.


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## KIRKRIDER (Mar 18, 2008)

Strewth said:


> Thanks for the replies. All good constructive stuff.
> 
> I did post a reply but it's disappeared into the internet, so sorry if this is a double up.
> 
> ...


I use K2 CTX and love them. My only doubt is on the trigger that low, moving it up on the highback would keep it away from the snow/ice. Another interesting feature I saw on rental bindings is the possibility to change angle on the fly releasing a lever that unlocks the base plate rotation.


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## Strewth (Sep 18, 2012)

Thanks BA & all, see some more detailed answers below. Apologoies for the long post;

I see a solution that's already been done by 4 other binding companies. Also is it really that hard to bend at the waist and strap in? I haven't sat down to strap in, in about oh 15 years.
- The binding aims to appeal to those riders who for whatever reason don't like strapping in. It's not for everyone, but they are out there.

Looking at the design of it I can already see that it's flawed. You have more moving parts which = more potential for problems. Your baseplate is too thick and will deaden the feel. I'm guessing it's this thick to make room for the lever which has to function to release the straps
- Yes, more moving parts than a standard binding, but they have been kept pretty simple. Similar number of moving parts to a Cinch really. Making these robust and reliable has been a large part of testing so far. More to do. 

Also do you feel 100k is enough start up capital to make molds? 
- No. This is only aimed to be part of the funding. Molds alone can cost $150K plus.

Which factory are you using for this? 
- We're talking to a couple, and have a preferred. Obviously can't talk names until the ink is dry. They are all reputable factories, making bindings for other brands.

Why do you feel your product is so much better than what is on the market from established brands? 
- Personally, while there are lots of great bindings out there, we wanted something else, that would bring back the "step-in" idea, without all the drawbacks of the old models.It's purely a preference and is aimed to appeal to a certain group of riders.

What is your 1, 3,5,8, and 10 year plan? 
- 1 year plan= get this initial campaign over the line, refine the design, get some initial product out. 2 Years = build on the momentum (hopefully), refine and improve. 3 - 8 years planning would be a bit premature at this point

The way I look at it, yet another company making an inferior product. I can see that now in the way you're prototyping and knowing that it takes at least 2 if not 3 to 4 years to get a binding to where it needs to be. 
- You're correct about the time required. Our focus is to put out a solid reliable product first up. Build on all the feedback and continue to improve. No doubt there will be niggles/issues. Even Flow with all the experience has had issues with thier new toe straps for example. Now had to make the heelcups a bit bigger after feedback, and have issues with ladder straps. We're not comparing ourselves to them, we're new to it, but have some very experienced people helping out, but even the established guys have issues, and this is part of the process. It would be unrealistic to expect perfection day 1, but we'll be working damn hard towards making as solid binding as possible.

1) I agree with BA about the base. It looks too thick and it's off-putting. If you can't physically shrink it any, maybe you can disguise it in the design.
- This will be addressed for production

2) My concern is that because the mechanism is invisible (unlike Flow or Cinch) I tend not to trust it. You're going to have trust issues, so you'd better have a damned good warranty and make a big deal out of it.
- The handle is a visual cue. When unlocked the handle is up, when locked it is down. Agree, it will be a matter of getting on the mountain and under as many riders as possible, and backing it up if any issues.

3) You're at a disadvantage for the North American market because of your location.
- Valid point. If all goes well local US distribution & point of contact would be essential. Something for further down the road.

4) On the don't-trust-the-mechanism front, these things will need to be publicly play-tested a lot.(Absolutely).
I'd be concerned about accidental release, either from snow pushing up the lever, jarring impacts triggering the release, or just hard riding forcing it open.
- Lever position will be refined. So far the current location seems best. To release the binding the lever needs to be pulled and the boot lifted up at the same time. Rider weight keeps the binding closed, so even if the lever is momentarily lifted by an obsticle, the binding won't release. No issues so far, more testing to be done.

5) Ugly. - Yep, it's a prototype. More prettying up to be done.


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## slyder (Jan 18, 2010)

a few more thoughts.
How easy will it be to fit a finger of a glove in there to release the lever??
What if I'm wearing mittens, I don't want to remove my mitten to release the binding
you have to bend down farther to reach the release lever unlike Flow or K2 the release is up on the high back
How do I release the binding if I'm sitting down??

Just thinking out loud, good luck with the new venture.


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## Strewth (Sep 18, 2012)

How easy will it be to fit a finger of a glove in there to release the lever?? 
-It's actually pretty easy. There is nothing directly underneath the lever, so lot's of clearance to get a gloved hand on. Have found it generally an easier action then releasing a buckle.

What if I'm wearing mittens, I don't want to remove my mitten to release the binding 
- Lever is long enough and lots of clearance to accommodate a glove or mitten, so have found no issue there so far.

You have to bend down farther to reach the release lever unlike Flow or K2 the release is up on the high back. 
- With a Flow you need to reach around behind the leg. The current lever location seems a bit more natural, and have found generally easier than releasing a hiback lever. The being on the side rather than behind seems to compensate for the extra distance, ie you end up bending about the same.

How do I release the binding if I'm sitting down?? 
-The heelcup & hiback is a traditional two piece setup, ie not a one piece like a Flow. Therefore the heelcup can open more than the hiback which makes it easier when sitting down than a one piece hiback, which must lay flat before exiting. ie the heelcup can be fully open, but the hiback can be folded forward somewhat (as it would be when sitting) and still be able to exit. It's easier standing up, but is easier sitting down than the current designs.


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## earl_je (Oct 20, 2009)

Watched the video before reading the posts and as soon as I saw the quick release lever, I immediately thought "..oh. I can just see myself accidentally releasing this thing at the park and tree runs" without physically testing it, it's already a big concern to me how it's so easy to release. Might I suggest maybe pulling it slightly out then up? Then again if I wear mitts it will be damn frustrating to pull the lever out so, idk.

It's always good to see new innovations in the works, the competition always forces other companies to innovate and improve their designs as well. Good luck.


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## Strewth (Sep 18, 2012)

The binding won't open while your weight is on the boot, ie you have to lift the lever and unweight/lift your boot at the same time to get out.

When on a heelside turn the weight of your heel on the baseplate keeps the binding closed. On the toesdie, the weight on the ball of your foot on the baseplate is enough to keep the binding closed on a hard turn. The lock is really needed for any type of air or when your boot is unweighted.

We have ridden the binding without a lock purely as a test. It worked fine for normal cruising, but definitely would not recommend trying that.

If a branch or other was to flick the handle it will flick back down & lock as soon as the branch was gone and you probably wouldn't know. If you collided with a bird while in the air, you could possibly have a problem.....

The aim in the video was to show the ease of exit, but probably could have shown that better & provided some more explanation. 

Hiback levers have had a tendency to unlock in the past, especially when sliding on your back. We've place it in a position where it seems least likely to be hit by something. The front binding would be more likely than the rear if there was an issue. More fine tuning to do, but so far no issues in this regard..


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## Trox (Sep 8, 2012)

You haven’t specified sizing, what is the boot size range for the first batch?

If I were to invest in The Strewth SLS instead of hookers and blow what happens if you don’t reach the 100k by March 14th?


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## Donutz (May 12, 2010)

Seems like an obvious answer from the pix, but let's just ask it anyway -- you can strap/unstrap like a traditional binding, right?

Also, less obvious -- is the highback sprung in any way? Does it pop open on its own when you release, or does it pop up on its own? Or does it just stay wherever you leave it?


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## Strewth (Sep 18, 2012)

You haven’t specified sizing, what is the boot size range for the first batch?
- Not finalised yet, but we expect to have two sizes. If you're between an 8 and a 12 you're likely to be OK. We will poll backers for sizes during the campaign to lock this in.

If I were to invest in The Strewth SLS instead of hookers and blow what happens if you don’t reach the 100k by March 14th?
- If we fall short of the target, we'll be looking to bridge the gap elsewhere (depending how big the gap is) and carry on, ie you get your bindings. If that fails, you keep your money.

Seems like an obvious answer from the pix, but let's just ask it anyway -- you can strap/unstrap like a traditional binding, right?
- Yes. Standard straps & buckles. You can strap in and unstrap normally. The buckles are a bit stiffer than normal to prevent unwanted tightening when the boot is out, ie similar to a Cinch or Flow buckle.

Also, less obvious -- is the highback sprung in any way? Does it pop open on its own when you release, or does it pop up on its own? Or does it just stay wherever you leave it?
- The hiback is not sprung. It will basically stay where you leave it. A slight push with the toe of your boot will open it if needed, as long as the binding is not locked closed.


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## aznguy133 (Dec 29, 2012)

What kind of mounting plate are you designing for right now? Are you planning to have a disc that works with 4-hole, and burton 3-hole or channel boards?f


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## BurtonAvenger (Aug 14, 2007)

FYI some of my friends at other rear entry companies said you might want to get a good patent attorney and look into patents.


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## ShredLife (Feb 6, 2010)

Nivek said:


> And does anyone else remember the last time we had hands free entry bindings? Clicker. Typing that sends shivers down my spine.


clickers are BACK son. 

Splitboard.com Forums • View topic - K2 introduces the new "Kwicker" splitboard system -


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## RedRomo (Aug 17, 2010)

One reason I retired my Cinch bindings after 1 season was the fact they didn't open far enough for me to easily get my boot in. Your's looks to be about the same 35* opening as the Cinch.

Also, why not put the lever on the inside of the binding?

Side note/rant: When possible I switch my ratchets (right to left) so that they're on the inside of my feet, rather than outside. I've never understood why all binding makers put the ratchets on the outside. :icon_scratch:


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## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

ShredLife said:


> clickers are BACK son.
> 
> Splitboard.com Forums • View topic - K2 introduces the new "Kwicker" splitboard system -


I've seen. And I'm scared.


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## Kevin137 (May 5, 2013)

TO THE OP

So on Indeigogo, you sold 20 early bird sets and 5 international sets... Last year...

So can i ask, did you get these delivered on time...???

And where are the reviews from those who purchased the units...???


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## td.1000 (Mar 26, 2014)

RedRomo said:


> Side note/rant: When possible I switch my ratchets (right to left) so that they're on the inside of my feet, rather than outside. I've never understood why all binding makers put the ratchets on the outside. :icon_scratch:


because most people have their arms on the outside?


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## Manicmouse (Apr 7, 2014)

td.1000 said:


> because most people have their arms on the outside?


:bowdown:.


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## Mizu Kuma (Apr 13, 2014)

td.1000 said:


> because most people have their arms on the outside?


Yeah, but it's what's on the inside that counts!!!!!


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## Strewth (Sep 18, 2012)

Hey Kevin137

No, the original Indiegogo campaign did not meet the funding goal, so no bindings shipped last year. We did offer refunds to the Indiegogo backers, but the majority have chosen to wait as they like the concept (which is why they backed it).

We've been in touch with them all and will be getting some samples together for them this year if the Kickstarter does not succeed. 

In hindsight Kickstarter is a better model, as noone pays unless the goal is met. Unfortunately Kickstarter wasn't available in Australia last year.


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## Nein11 (Oct 4, 2012)

Concencept looks cool and exactly the kind of thing my wife would like to use (she is a devoted flow user now).

Off the top of my head:

Being from the Pacific Northwest I would really be concerned about our cascade cement getting under the step in pedal and making actuating it impossible.

Thinking about getting into those while on a steep slope in deep heavy pow or in/out in a tree well makes me wonder.

I HATE the name. (Sorry if its some ones last name or favorite aunt) Why not; Backdoor bindings or Romper Stomper bindings or Johnny Rotten bindings...or just about anything else.


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## Strewth (Sep 18, 2012)

Hi Nein11. Thanks for the feedback.

We've had very little issue with snow getting under the footbed. Just in case though, the footbed is configured so it can be easily lifted out and the snow brushed away. We haven't had to do it though.

As for difficult situations, you have normal binding straps. So you can always choose whether to use the step-in system, or get in the usual way. We've found the step-in works well in most spots. Snow jamming and working in difficult conditions have been two of the main points we've focused on during the design work.

A name will probably always be a love/hate thing. It is easy to remember though


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