# Groomer board - help me choose



## NWBoarder (Jan 10, 2010)

Hmmm....I seem to recall that you like to ride the men's boards, and since I know practically nothing of women's boards, my suggestions shall be for men's. So, NS, check out the Heritage, maybe the Proto. Capita, scope the Totally F'ckin Awesome, or maybe the Black Snowboard of Death. Lib, I'd say maybe a TRS or Banana Magic, maybe a T.Rice. Gnu, try out one of they're crazy assym boards. I've heard they're fun. Ride, I'd say a Machette. Salomon, maybe the Man's Board (might be to stiff though), or the Salomonder. K2, the Happy Hour possibly. Nitro, the Team Gullwing. I don't know what else, that's all I got for you, and I'm sure someone will come through and tell me how wrong my suggestions are. Lol!


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

NWBoarder said:


> Hmmm....I seem to recall that you like to ride the men's boards, and since I know practically nothing of women's boards, my suggestions shall be for men's.


Thanks for your list!

Yes... my last board, the Palmer Liberty Carbon, was my only woman's board so far  I happened to buy the Flagship since it was the most stable ride at the Nidecker test day last year, when I was looking for a fast pow stick. But I'm not fixated on men's boards. 

The *NS Infinity and Rossignol Diva * are woman's boards, that raised my interest, for example.


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## Banjo (Jan 29, 2013)

Since you have a knack for large stiff mens boards, I would agree on trying the Black Snowboard of Death...it may be too stiff though. Another good hybrid is the Salomon Sabotage.

If its gonna be strictly a groomer board, a full camber might be fun for days of just carving....

Try the Rome Anthem, Burton Custom X, or Salomon Burner. They are all pretty aggressive full camber boards, but would be real fun to snap around on groomers.

Hopefully you can demo a few decent boards!!


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## Banjo (Jan 29, 2013)

In looking a bit deeper, the burner and anthem are only available in fairly large sizes....


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## hktrdr (Apr 3, 2012)

NWBoarder said:


> Hmmm....I seem to recall that you like to ride the men's boards, and since I know practically nothing of women's boards, my suggestions shall be for men's. So, NS, check out the Heritage, maybe the Proto. Capita, scope the Totally F'ckin Awesome, or maybe the Black Snowboard of Death. Lib, I'd say maybe a TRS or Banana Magic, maybe a T.Rice. Gnu, try out one of they're crazy assym boards. I've heard they're fun. Ride, I'd say a Machette. Salomon, maybe the Man's Board (might be to stiff though), or the Salomonder. K2, the Happy Hour possibly. Nitro, the Team Gullwing. I don't know what else, that's all I got for you, and I'm sure someone will come through and tell me how wrong my suggestions are. Lol!


Wow, a lot of suggestions there. Limiting my comments to the boards I have ridden/personally know, all the Lib-Tech suggestions are not paticularly good: Banana Magic is not a groomer board; T. Rice does well on groomers but as a mid-wide not ideal for smaller feet. TRS is an ok groomer board (and does come in smaller sizes) but more of a playful board than a high speed charger.
Better choices from Lib would be the Hot Knife (comes in 150 and 153 next year) or, if she wants something stiffer, the Dark(er) Series (155 and up).


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## Banjo (Jan 29, 2013)

neni, how did you find the raptor in comparison to your flagship? ie: did you like/notice the rocker in the middle vs the camber in the middle? I think thats the biggest decision to make when getting a groomer board....


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## rambob (Mar 5, 2011)

How bout the Nidecker Megalight or Platinum series. I've only read about them but they are supposed to be very fast and be good groomers


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## behi (Feb 27, 2013)

neni said:


> I was surprised, how much softer it was on bumpy groomers


I don't know what bindings you are using, but the bindings also makes a huge difference in shock absorption/dampening. Might be something else to look at (and may skew your testing of different boards)...


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

behi said:


> I don't know what bindings you are using, but the bindings also makes a huge difference in shock absorption/dampening. Might be something else to look at (and may skew your testing of different boards)...


Ride Fame (on both, the Flagship and Raptor). 



Banjo said:


> neni, how did you find the raptor in comparison to your flagship? ie: did you like/notice the rocker in the middle vs the camber in the middle? I think thats the biggest decision to make when getting a groomer board....


Oh yes, there was a huge difference and it's pretty hard to decide, if I liked it or not :laugh: 
Carving with the Flagship needs a lot of work: if I don't use all my force in the legs, I wash out and there's almost no pop. It's great on perfect conditions, but if there are bumps, you'll lift off if not riding very low and if it's hardpack, I don't manage to make decent carves anymore. There's no detectable camber in the middle, it's just flat, so I wouldn't count it as a valid camber vs. rocker comparison candidate.

On the Raptor, carving was very easy, as soon as I got used to the amount of acceleration IN the carve "wow... wait for me!". I had no sore muscles in the legs (like with the Flagship) but in the back from stabilyzing the upper body  Made the deepest carves ever and enjoyed this a lot! Pure fun! But while riding straight line, I didn't like the wiggly feeling of the rocker... made me feel insecure. To be fair, the Raptor with its 164 was far too long, might be a different story, if its a shorter one :dunno: never ridden a shorter rocker so far. 

Comparing both Flagship and Raptor to my former traditional camber Custom X (about 145): I remember nasty catapult falls when the Custom X got its nose dug in while carving. I guess, the lifted nose of the Flagship/Raptor prevents this problem, cause it never was an issue with this boards. But then, it's long time ago I've been on the Custom X and maybe it might not be an issue today anymore. 

All in all, I'm looking for a board with this "acceleration in the carve" quality like the Raptor


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## behi (Feb 27, 2013)

neni said:


> Ride Fame (on both, the Flagship and Raptor).


Then you probably wont find something with significantly better dampening...

Another board manufacturer you could look at is Goodboards. They make some nice handcrafted camber boards. If you know LTB (nothing to do with LTD), Goodboards is basically the German-speaking LTB distribution guys having gone their own way and having started a new company. Not sure if there is a demo opportunity in your area.


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## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

ahhh...billygoat would be a great groomer board:tongue4:

also check riders choice (mens or ladies) and b-pro

or if you want more of a camber feel for blasting groomers....something with c3 instead of c2 ...like a billygoat with c3

edit...never mind you want a cambered, for blasting groomers for stability, pop and acceleration out of the carve


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## isle1965 (Sep 30, 2011)

I have a raptor 164 obviously damp and carves very well. I also have a custom x 162 wide that I honestly think is incredibly over rated. 
Earlier this season a local shop was closing down and I was fortunate enough to get a Capita Black Death 159 half price.

I live to carve groomers and have never had a board rail anywhere near as well as the BSOD. It lets me do things that I thought would only be possible on an alpine deck. It is however like most higher end boards one that if your not on your game you will dislike.

I have been on my raptor for 3 seasons now and much prefer the Capita.

My wife rips groomers like a champ....she's on a NS Lotus.......swears by it.


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

wrathfuldeity said:


> ahhh...billygoat would be a great groomer board


Haha... you really seem to love your BG. Maybe I just should get the BG split and make it my hike AND groomer board 



hktrdr said:


> if she wants something stiffer, the Dark(er) Series (155 and up).


*Gasp* I almost spit coffee over my mobile...  
Remember my dear young shop assistent telling me "oh no, girls can't ride a billy goat"? When I later looked greedily at the Darker Series, he looked me deep in the eyes with that gaze my dad had when I was touching his motor saw as a little girl and said "nonono... that's nothing for you", turned and told my husband "but it would be a cool board for YOU" ... this guy was lucky, there was no motor saw around 

I like you guys


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## LuckyRVA (Jan 18, 2011)

Lib Tech Hotknife (C3). Picked one up a few weeks ago. Overall camber profile, damp, carves like a dream and true twin shape. I'm loving it so far on the hard pack east coast.


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## KIRKRIDER (Mar 18, 2008)

neni said:


> Umpf... how ironic... I finally managed to learn to ride fast enough to stick to the tails of the guys at blacks, now they start buying telemark skis and want to spend the non-pow days on blues and reds :blink: Good thing: I finally get the time to play around, ride switch, improve carving.
> 
> I love my Flagship 158 on blacks and pow, but it is not the right board for such slow groomer days. Riding a NS Raptor 164 for a day, I was surprised, how much softer it was on bumpy groomers and how easy to carve, even if it was far too big for me. So I'm thinking of getting a second option for those days, when there's no fresh snow and the pack changes to telemarks.
> 
> ...



If you like carving you should try the Arbor A-Frame. Rode it yesterday with 23-18 angles and I was leaving "C's " into ice. Very very good board.


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## The Jake (Jan 19, 2010)

*Another recommendation for Burton Custom X Full Camber*

It is absolutely incredible on groomers, the gradient be damned. The edge holds like no other board that I've tried (and I demo'd a bunch while shopping for a new board). 

The board absolutely flies. I'm going 40 mph and 100% in control, the board responsive and never chattering, even if I'm slicing over an ice patch. 

One of the best purchases I've ever made.


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## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

Well now, this is an interesting one. A girl, riding a board too gnarly for most dudes, and you're under weight by about 65 pounds for the size you're on. The fact you can even ride the deck is impressive. I can't help but beg you to drop everything else you're doing and focus on snowboarding cause there are only a handful of girls on the planet that could properly ride a Flagship weighing what you do. That takes strength and great fundamentals.

Anyway, I'm curious what size boot you wear. Being that this is going to be your carving groomer board your ability to get it up on edge is going to be key and something better optimized for a womes foot is going to make a big difference. 

For starters these are the womens boards I'd point you towards: Ride Farrah, K2 Eco Lite, Salomon Idol, something from APO (ask them at the tent), Nitro Fate Flat, or Jones is making the Mothership which is the narrower slightly softer Flagship which would be that much easier to pick up on edge and put into a carve.

Though you may not get to demo one, based on what you ride now I would strongly suggest you look into Venture snowboards. One of the best brand I've had the fortune to meet and they do nothing but make stiff freeride decks. You pick waist widths so you wouldnt really be buying a "girls" board, but just a freeride board with a proper waist width for your size.


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## silverwhale (Nov 17, 2012)

I got a new board this year - the Rome Gold - it might be worth a demo. I'm finding it fantastic on groomers, it really carves well and is fast from edge to edge. It also picks up speed quickly, I can fly past everyone down blue corduroy runs and sometimes have to check (slow) my speed going down blacks. I weigh slightly less than you and have a 147, but you probably want to go larger based on the other boards you've tried  You might find it slightly squirrely when the board is flat (I hardly notice it now), but on edge it's great. I haven't tried a huge selection of boards so I don't have the experience of some other people on here ... but if you are wanting a suggestion that is actually a women's board it might be worth a try!


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## wernersl (Dec 28, 2011)

Im thinking you might want to add the NS Lotus to your list. At least take it for a spin if you get the chance.


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

Nivek said:


> Well now, this is an interesting one. A girl, riding a board too gnarly for most dudes, and you're under weight by about 65 pounds for the size you're on. The fact you can even ride the deck is impressive. I can't help but beg you to drop everything else you're doing and focus on snowboarding cause there are only a handful of girls on the planet that could properly ride a Flagship weighing what you do. That takes strength and great fundamentals.


 I've to send this my husband. It's only days ago he critizised that I look so _strained _ while riding, that a real advanced rider would look more _elegant_. If I'm trying to explain, that this is part of this board, that his Raptor was a pretty soft ride compared to it, he looks at me with this ironic "yes... SURE" gaze (= hes thinking "bla bla bla") 

Anyway, I truely think, the Flagship is overrated in terms of being gnarly. I felt "at home" on it after the first meters. Stable, easy to turn, fast edge to edge. And I'm honestly not very advanced (tried to ride some turns switch and looked like a complete idiot only days ago ). I'm just used (was forced) to ride as fast as I dare and for this, the Flagship is the perfect partner. It needs some concentration but it's a lot of fun.



Nivek said:


> Anyway, I'm curious what size boot you wear. Being that this is going to be your carving groomer board your ability to get it up on edge is going to be key and something better optimized for a womes foot is going to make a big difference.
> 
> Though you may not get to demo one, based on what you ride now I would strongly suggest you look into Venture snowboards. One of the best brand I've had the fortune to meet and they do nothing but make stiff freeride decks. You pick waist widths so you wouldnt really be buying a "girls" board, but just a freeride board with a proper waist width for your size.


6.5 in mens / 8.5 in womans / European 39. What waist size yould you recommend? Was looking at the description of the Venture Zephyr only minutes ago. Actually, I did the entire day nothing else than read manufacturer's and the-good-ride's descriptions of board, :tempted: mentally zig-zagging between being attracted by the stiffer men's ones, then telling myself 
"naaa... you're looking for a contrast to the Flagship" - "yes... but I don't want to ride a chattery unstable noodle" 
"but you want to have something more easygoing" - "but none of the woman's boards has an 'excellent' in carving" 
"don't be stubborn, try something complete different" - "I'll hate it at the first straight line runout" 
"but you might finally look _elegant_!"  

Well... it's pretty sure now that we'll skip the demo day. Snowstorms are announced for the next three days. As interesting and helpful it would be to test several boards, when pow is announced, there's no other option than to follow this siren's call!


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## silverwhale (Nov 17, 2012)

When you say you're looking for a women's board with an "excellent" in carving, do you mean on TheGoodRide? Cause I will note that the Rome Gold I mentioned a couple posts ago did have an "excellent" in both groomers and carving if my memory serves me correctly - one of the main reasons I was attracted to it  Have fun hitting the powder if that's what you decide to do though


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

silverwhale said:


> I got a new board this year - the Rome Gold - it might be worth a demo. I'm finding it fantastic on groomers, it really carves well and is fast from edge to edge. It also picks up speed quickly, I can fly past everyone down blue corduroy runs and sometimes have to check (slow) my speed going down blacks. I weigh slightly less than you and have a 147, but you probably want to go larger based on the other boards you've tried  You might find it slightly squirrely when the board is flat (I hardly notice it now), but on edge it's great. I haven't tried a huge selection of boards so I don't have the experience of some other people on here ... but if you are wanting a suggestion that is actually a women's board it might be worth a try!


Fist female post :thumbsup: Thanks! Sounds promising, will go to my "to check in detail" list. Seems to have exactly this "acceleration in the carve" attitude, I'm looking for. The squirrely while flat might be the same try-to-balance-on-an-gymnastic-ball feeling, I recogniced trying to ride the Raptor (also hybrid rocker) flat. Snowolf mentioned in the "scorpoined while flat..." thread how to overcome this problem, so I just have to test.



silverwhale said:


> When you say you're looking for a women's board with an "excellent" in carving, do you mean on TheGoodRide? Cause I will note that the Rome Gold I mentioned a couple posts ago did have an "excellent" in both groomers and carving if my memory serves me correctly - one of the main reasons I was attracted to it  Have fun hitting the powder if that's what you decide to do though


oh yes, you're right. gets another thumbs up then. What is your impression of edge hold on ice? 



To those recommending the NS Lotus... Why the Lotus and not the Infinity? The Infinity seems to be more suitable for carving and riding switch, whereas the Lotus is more a pow board...? (if there's pow, the Flagship will me my companion )


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## Kauila (Jan 7, 2011)

The Lotus is the NS women's counterpart to the men's Premier board. (At least it seems to me) that the Infinity is a softer, more playful all-mountain board that can also be used in the park. If you look at the NS website, you can see where these two boards (Lotus, Infinity) stack up, compared to the Raptor.

If you're considering women's boards and want traditional camber, take a look at the Arbor Push as well. It's described as a freeride/powder board, but you might think otherwise if you're already riding a Flagship in pow?


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## unsunken (Dec 15, 2009)

I just got the Infinity and took it for a ride yesterday. I'm loving it because it's soft and feels playful. But for fast carves -- definitely would prefer my stiffer/narrower/cambered board.


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## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

Infinity is a noodle...at least a few years ago when my daughter was looking for a board. It's too bad that Option went south...they were making some great high-end women's boards in Canada at the time of their demise. Actually still ocassionally ride a women's Trinity 158 stiff cambered poppy FR...I haven't maxed it out cause 54 mph is fast enough for me.


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## skip11 (Jan 28, 2010)

Maybe look at Kessler The Ride, Burton Custom X, next year's Billy Goat with C3, or just get the Raptor in a shorter length since you've tried it and liked it.


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

unsunken said:


> I just got the Infinity and took it for a ride yesterday. I'm loving it because it's soft and feels playful. But for fast carves -- definitely would prefer my stiffer/narrower/cambered board.





wrathfuldeity said:


> Infinity is a noodle...at least a few years ago when my daughter was looking for a board.


ok... scratch Infinity.


Any opinions on the Jones Twin Sister? 
I'm pretty sure, I could demo this in the local shop.




skip11 said:


> or just get the Raptor in a shorter length since you've tried it and liked it.


 good point. Yes, I liked how it carved but it's not really the right one to learn to ride switch.


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## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

At your foot size I definitely recommend a womens width board. Something sub 24.5 is what you're probably looking for in terms of actual numbers. Can go higher, can go lower, thats's more just a point to start at.

Absolutely get on the Twin Sister. 

Absolutely ignore the Goodride, they're idiots. Unfortunately for online gear reviews for women there just isn't anything good yet aside from some of the posters here. Angrysnowboarder.com will have some for 2014.

If you're worried about looseness and the feeling of a ball between your feet I'd just stay away from anything RC. It's not for everyone. And going smaller and softer will only pronounce the instability.


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

unsunken said:


> But for fast carves -- definitely would prefer my *stiffer/narrower/cambered board*.


 which one?



Nivek said:


> Absolutely ignore the Goodride, they're idiots. Unfortunately for online gear reviews for women there just isn't anything good yet aside from some of the posters here. Angrysnowboarder.com will have some for 2014.


I read thru all reviews of shayboarder.com but it's a pity that she didn't demo too many woman's boards neither.



Nivek said:


> If you're worried about looseness and the feeling of a ball between your feet I'd just stay away from anything RC. It's not for everyone. And going smaller and softer will only pronounce the instability.


It wasn't so much "worry" as is was "surprise with a pinch wtf". 

When riding the Flagship, I fasten the boots and bindings as hard as I can. This might sound a bit esotheric, but the legs/feet/board build kind of a unit. The Flagship does exactly, what it'll be told. The slightest movement of toes will make it react. I trust this board a lot, felt so secure on it, that I even began to do little jumps and flatbase it on hardpack with ease. Entire different picture, as soon as I have the boots loosened a bit or ride with stretched legs: it will get bitchy and ride me. Like with TB horses: great to ride fast but dangerous if you loosen the reins and don't concentrate.


Thus I was a bit surprised by the Raptor. It did "funny movements" without being told. As soon as on an edge, it was fine; going over icy parts (from artificial snow), it had the better edgehold than the Flagship, which I appreciated a lot cause those reds the guys will telly on have several such parts. _Surprised _ doesn't mean, I wouldn't want to try to adapt to this loose feeling. It just was so very different (next day back on the Flagship was like: oh, my second skin - lets bomb some lines! oh... we're bound to the reds... with all the skiers making bumps, and I have to wait every other hundered meters for the telly guys... oh, my feet die, this run will never end... this sucks.)

So to all the guys recommending stiff men's boards: Thanks a lot, I'm sure, this are great boards, but wouldn't they ride quite similar to the Flagship...? I'm not looking for another "needing continuously all my strength" board, harsh to ride in bumpy afternoon groomers. 
I still want to ride aggressively, make deep carves, shoot down the runout, but with the opportunity to take it easy, to play around while waiting for the telly guys. Guess, a not so damn stiff woman's boards thus would suit better.


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## wernersl (Dec 28, 2011)

neni said:


> which one?
> 
> 
> I read thru all reviews of shayboarder.com but it's a pity that she didn't demo too many woman's boards neither.
> ...


Reading your last statement says Infinity or Lotus to me (If you are into the RC profile). Yes the Lotus is a stiffer womens board, but with what you are used to it might just have the flex you are looking for. If you want it to be a bit more playful or start learning switch, Id say Infinity, or try out the Twin Sister. The Twin Sister will probably be a better choice for switch. You have your big mountain bomber. Sounds to me like you are looking for more playfulness.


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## behi (Feb 27, 2013)

neni said:


> So to all the guys recommending stiff men's boards: Thanks a lot, I'm sure, this are great boards, but wouldn't they ride quite similar to the Flagship...? I'm not looking for another "needing continuously all my strength" board, harsh to ride in bumpy afternoon groomers.


A mid-flex+ won't necessarily ride better than a very stiff in the bumps, unless it's very well dampened (assuming you want to go through and not around the chop). If it's not well-dampened, it may even amplify the chop.

The Raptor you tried, probably counts as a very stiff board with your weight, so you have a very good stiff, well-dampened reference to compare other boards against...


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## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

neni,
Quit being an old lady and get your balls out of your purse. U want a fast stable fun board to play around on, ur aggressive and want to progress. Get on the fucking goat...imho a 156 for your size...try it out for a day. Now that I've got 2/3 of a season on it; its a damm fun board...very confident board, narrower for smaller feet and now that I can ride it instead of being taken for a ride, its very nimble and forgiving. It will handle a 24" pow dump, icy grommers and you can rip groomers, do drops and trees. This board was made for PNW terrain and conditions; and temple has small feet...and if you can develop chops like temple...u will have your boys drooling over your goat. Monday, went out after lunch and got the manz drool when it was sitting in the rack.

tease


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## SJ10 (Mar 3, 2010)

I highly recommend the Salomon Burner for the qualities you've listed. Very light, snappy, slightly more than mid flex but carves well, rides well in pow. Exactly how I would expect a cambered Raptor to ride. I had a Raptor X 169 and now a Burner 171 and find the two very comparable with the exception of the profile. I'm not sure if a Burner 160 would be too big for you but my 171 weighs about the same as my other 163-165cm boards.


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

Hmmm... the Salamon is quite wide.



wrathfuldeity said:


> neni,
> Quit being an old lady and get your balls out of your purse. U want a fast stable fun board to play around on, ur aggressive and want to progress. Get on the fucking goat...


Yes sir! :bowdown:

Was at my favorite local shop. The guy told me euphemistically about the same as you. Why a woman's board? Most of them are too short for you. The Infinity will bore you, the Raven (the new Lotus) will feel soft enough to play around. He got this "gotcha" gaze when I admitted, that I liked the Raptor (was reluctant last year to get a RC).

NS has changed the shape somehow (technical details = me on standby nodding) so the wiggly feeling shouldn't be an issue anymore, thus the NS now really raised my interest. + the BG. Promised! 



wrathfuldeity said:


> tease


:eusa_clap: it's working :thumbsup: getting all excited again! Sorry for being so insecure.


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

behi said:


> A mid-flex+ won't necessarily ride better than a very stiff in the bumps, unless it's very well dampened (assuming you want to go through and not around the chop). If it's not well-dampened, it may even amplify the chop.
> 
> The Raptor you tried, probably counts as a very stiff board with your weight, so you have a very good stiff, well-dampened reference to compare other boards against...


Good point. I have to admit, that I'm rather confused by the "dampness" term. If someone states, "this is a damp board" does he mean well-dampened (=smoothe) or un-dampened (=uhm... harsh?). In rather stiff boards, what's the advantage of "un-damp"? 

Haven't found many information on the NS Raven. Missed it in the 2014 setup thread.


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## behi (Feb 27, 2013)

neni said:


> Good point. I have to admit, that I'm rather confused by the "dampness" term. If someone states, "this is a damp board" does he mean well-dampened (=smoothe) or un-dampened (=uhm... harsh?). In rather stiff boards, what's the advantage of "un-damp"?


Yeah, damp = well-dampened. Some people seem to think an "un-damp" board feels better, more alive or whatever. I'll take a "dead"/damp board any day. From what I read, your Flagship falls into the "un-damp" category.


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

The snowstorm missed our mountain, its all hardpak/slush, so I'll def. go to the demo day. Looking at all those boards made me very curious 
Contacted NS for further information on the Raven. They recommended to try the SL. 

On my List:
NS Raven and SL
Ride Highlife
Rome Gold (not sure if it's around, but I'll check)
Jones Mtn Twin (hint from Josh from Nidecker)
one ride on the BSOD (just out of stubbornbess )
and for sure the Goat.

Sounds like a nice bunch of roses, not? :yahoo:


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## wernersl (Dec 28, 2011)

neni said:


> The snowstorm missed our mountain, its all hardpak/slush, so I'll def. go to the demo day. Looking at all those boards made me very curious
> Contacted NS for further information on the Raven. They recommended to try the SL.
> 
> On my List:
> ...


I'd add Lotus to your list.


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

wernersl said:


> I'd add Lotus to your list.


It's on the top. Raven = Lotus in 2014


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

Opinion on sizes? Well, on the men's, I'll go for the smallest/check for narrow waist. But on the woman's? 
Online lenght calculator recommends a 149. yiiik! :laugh: But then, it won't need to float pow, so why not go for something that actually suits my weight? Well... maybe a 151... or 154 

Naa, kidding. I'd be curious, what the groomer ripping womans here would recommend / hear their experience. 



isle1965 said:


> My wife rips groomers like a champ....she's on a NS Lotus.......swears by it.


What size Lotus is she on? Did she ever mention that she would have wanted it to be longer or shorter?


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## wernersl (Dec 28, 2011)

neni said:


> It's on the top. Raven = Lotus in 2014


yeah yeah. technicality.


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## Kauila (Jan 7, 2011)

Neni, check the waist widths on the Lotus (or Raven) for the best match for your boot size, but generally speaking, 149 is too short for you. 151 if you want to play around on the mountain, 154 if you want to do fast carves on the groomers. Maybe the 154, since you're already used to riding much longer boards?

I have the Lotus in 154--although I'm embarrassed to say, I haven't taken it out yet  Been riding the Arbor Cadence as my mess-around-on-the-mountain board thus far this season, which has been kind of a bust snow-wise. Anyway, if it helps any, I'm 5'6", 144 lbs, size 7.5 boot. Hope to get the Lotus on the snow in a week or so!


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

Thanks Kauila! 

Presented my list to my husband and lit a fire . He'll leave the tellies at home and want's to demo some boards too "the most agressive carving boards". Okey... from the ones you recomnended, I think the BSOD, Hot Knife, Burner and Dark Series might suit?

I'm sure, you already gave me some pretty good tips, but if you were reluctant cause I'm a lighweight and looking for something more playful, now is the time to give away the nasty stuff.
He's an expert rider, 190lbs, boot size 8. Likes the Raptor but says, his former Cusom X was a better carver.


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## seriouscat (Jan 23, 2012)

If you are in Europe... what about Head? 

SHE'S EVIL KERS FLOCKA


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

*Demo-Day review*

okey... the demo day was a mix of interesting, disillusioning, disappointing and funny.

I supposed I was well prepared and had my list of boards I wanted to demo, just to receive the same reply at every tent: oh, would be a nice board, but we don't have it here: 
*No* Burner, Dark Series, Hot Knife, Billy Goat, Anthem, Gold, BSOD. Of the ones in stock, sizes were either too small or too large: the woman's were <149, the men's mostly >158. 

Demoed on good groomer conditions on the same blacks in this order:

1) *Salomon Idol*. The ca149 was the largest. Was irritated by it's weight: it was thus light. Almost as if there's nothing under your feet. After riding rather larg heavy boards I wasn't sure, if I liked that or not  Was a nice ride, didn't recognize that much pop though, but an OK carver and surprisingly stable at high speeds. But I for sure would need to try a larger one to get a proper idea of the board. 

2) *Salomon Sick Stick. * I actually asked for the Burner, but since this one is discontinued in 2014, the dude gave me the Sick Stick as an "appropriate alternative". Bah! The ca159 was stable at higher speeds, but to carve with this board is no fun. I began to seriously doubt if the tent dudes actually knew their boards at all.

3) *NS SL* the ca160 was the smallest one. Was an overall ok, nice to carve, but not as good as the Raptor. Felt a bit coarse but then the 160 was a bit wide for my small feet. So no idea of this board either.

4) *NS Raven* (the 2014 replacement of Lotus). They only had a very tiny one, ca145. Told the dude that this is far to small for me, he insisted on it being ok, cause of my weight. Great. I even had to change my hind 0 angle to +15 to fit my boot on this tiny board. Hell, this was the most awful ride I had this day. It was almost as if the board was afraid of me. Real carving was impossible, landed on my ass twice trying. The edge wasn't able to handle my pressure and I was not able to impact less pressure. Ended up cruising. To be fair: the board might be nice, if it would have been 10cm longer. It had the sort of softness/dampness I was looking for but the tiny one was just dull.

5) *Ride Highlife. * aaaaah... after the Raven letdown, this 155 was heaven! The Ride dude was more than reluctant to give me this stiffy, but I insisted and it was the best ride that day :laugh: high speed bomber, high speed carver, pretty stiff, but def. damper than the Flagship. Loved to lay it flat, had to impact less force than on the Flagship to get better/deeper carves. Could be an option... though it's pretty similar to the Flagship :icon_scratch:

6) *Rome Agent. * the 156 trad. camber one. Hmmm... it's an ok carver, not super stable but ok at higher speeds. I heavily failed when tried ride switch on the Flagship (never tried it before, been a forward oriented rider so far and was struggling like 1st day rider to do proper turns ), but tried on the Agent anyway, and I felt surprising comfortable, was able to do several turns immediately; rotating (don't know how it's called when you spin with the board on the snow again and again, like a screw..?) was very easy on both sides (for me very strenuous backside on the Flagship). So although this board was nothing impressive on the carving aspect, it nonetheless might fit for fulfilling the playfulness part.


All in all, I learned that even at big demo days, the selection of boards/sizes is small, that I de facto seem have a knack for stiff men's boards, that I can't (and I mean not. able. to.) ride short woman's boards - and I still have no clue, which board I should order :dizzy::dunno:


Edit: BTW. While I was demoing, my husband took my Flagship. His comments: wow, you were right, this board is very stiff. But it's awesome! I bet, I could hit 85 with it. I'll gonna get a 164! 
Was very interesting for me to whatch him riding this board... I got an idea of what would actually be possible to do with it. He made "C"s so deep, I'll never be able to do.
Another BTW. Me back on the Flagship for the last run on black I just felt home. Wondered, why on earth I ever wanted to get another one. So stable, straight and responsive. But when entering the chopped up reds, I remembered quickly


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## Mpjames 09 (Dec 21, 2012)

Hi Neni, please try and demo a Nidecker Megalight and Ultralight. These boards kick ass on groomers as well as pow. Seeing that you are in Europe you will have a better chance to demo one of these boards. Also, these boards are beautifully made, you'll see what I mean when you see it up close. Good luck


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## wernersl (Dec 28, 2011)

Mpjames 09 said:


> Hi Neni, please try and demo a Nidecker Megalight and Ultralight. These boards kick ass on groomers as well as pow. Seeing that you are in Europe you will have a better chance to demo one of these boards. Also, these boards are beautifully made, you'll see what I mean when you see it up close. Good luck


Man I'd love to get on a Megalight!


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## Mpjames 09 (Dec 21, 2012)

Wernersl, they're sick boards. I own the Ultralight. I see you are in SoCal, I was at Bear on 3/23. The board did great on the icy conditions.


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## wernersl (Dec 28, 2011)

Mpjames 09 said:


> Wernersl, they're sick boards. I own the Ultralight. I see you are in SoCal, I was at Bear on 3/23. The board did great on the icy conditions.


So you're one of the ones I flew by Saturday! :yahoo:


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## Mpjames 09 (Dec 21, 2012)

We're you on Geronimo? I bailed after 2 hours, too icy. I need to wait until after 1:00 so it softens. I'm hoping to get back one more time. Look for the guy with the sick carbon fiber snowboard saying "on your left"


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## wernersl (Dec 28, 2011)

Mpjames 09 said:


> We're you on Geronimo? I bailed after 2 hours, too icy. I need to wait until after 1:00 so it softens. I'm hoping to get back one more time. Look for the guy with the sick carbon fiber snowboard saying "on your left"


Bombed that bitch from 930 till a lil after 1. Ran chair 9 twice and got bored.


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## Mpjames 09 (Dec 21, 2012)

I was the first guy on chair 8 after it opened, we definitely shared the same snow. If you like I can give the North America Nidecker reps email. If you had questions about the Megalight. He also distributes: Jones, Yes and Slash. Good luck the rest of the season. I'm hoping that storm that's coming is cold enough to snow. I'm not holding my breath. Cheers.


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## wernersl (Dec 28, 2011)

Mpjames 09 said:


> I was the first guy on chair 8 after it opened, we definitely shared the same snow. If you like I can give the North America Nidecker reps email. If you had questions about the Megalight. He also distributes: Jones, Yes and Slash. Good luck the rest of the season. I'm hoping that storm that's coming is cold enough to snow. I'm not holding my breath. Cheers.


Yeah I don't think it will be. I'll ride in the rain in Saturday I guess. What size Nidecker you riding?


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## Mpjames 09 (Dec 21, 2012)

167. The rep told me its the only ultralight 167 in the USA this year. I waited a year for it. Have fun Saturday.


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## wernersl (Dec 28, 2011)

Mpjames 09 said:


> 167. The rep told me its the only ultralight 167 in the USA this year. I waited a year for it. Have fun Saturday.


Shit meet me there and let me ride that bitch!


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## Mpjames 09 (Dec 21, 2012)

If I go again, I'll message you. I would be happy to let you ride it. You're a serious rider I can tell. I'm sure you can appreciate riding such a sick board.


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## wernersl (Dec 28, 2011)

Mpjames 09 said:


> If I go again, I'll message you. I would be happy to let you ride it. You're a serious rider I can tell. I'm sure you can appreciate riding such a sick board.


Damn right. Let me know. Got a RaptorX to keep you company in the meantime!


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

Mpjames 09 said:


> Hi Neni, please try and demo a Nidecker Megalight and Ultralight. These boards kick ass on groomers as well as pow. Seeing that you are in Europe you will have a better chance to demo one of these boards. Also, these boards are beautifully made, you'll see what I mean when you see it up close. Good luck


Not only Europe but in Switzerland, origine of Nidecker... haven't looked into them yet cause they were not part of this demo day. Oh yes, the *Megalight *sounds interesting (and OOOOH, the *Platinum Swiss Core *hit my interest too, though it might be replacing the kitchen door by an ironing-board ). They sound like fun groomer boards! Did you ride the Flagship/Megalight? How do they compare considering carving/dampness in chopped up conditions? Will run trough the shops here and try to find them.

Hope you'll get some fresh snow. I'll be riding ice on the mornings and water in the afternoon over Easter. The timeframe for decent runs is about 30minutes :blink:


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## Mpjames 09 (Dec 21, 2012)

Hi Neni, I have the Ultralight which is the same shape as the Megalight it just has more tech and carbon fiber. They ride the same really. I haven't ridden the Flagship yet, I have one in 164, I can't get enough of my Ultralight. It's so fast, light and no chatter at all, I think you will love it. Hope you can get to demo one. These boards are sick and beautiful to look at. Even in Europe it's doubtful you will see another person on one. In the USA they are as rare as unicorns Good luck and let me know when you see one and ride one.


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## johnnyo (Mar 27, 2013)

I just recently got a lib tech TRS for exactly the same reason you are looking for a board and it has worked absolutle wonders for me. I was riding a Baraccuda before it but after it washed out on me several times on non pow days I decided I wanted a groomer specific board so I could still enjoy days without any snow. It has ridiculous edge hold (almost too much) never once did it wash out even on really highspeed carves on extreme hard pack...the board performs really great at high speeds but also isnt horrible at slow speeds jibbing around the mountain and what not. Its awesome on kickers and natural terrain jumps and has some really nice pop to it. Like I said this is my groomer board and it works wonders for me! Running cartels and DC judges with it.


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## cocolulu (Jan 21, 2011)

This thread blows my mind.

Neni, out of curiosity, how tall are you? I'm also 120 lbs., and on any board larger than, say 150, the stance would probably be much too wide even at the innermost/narrowest screw slots.

I'm also about half a shoe size smaller than you, so I'm surprised you had trouble getting into the Raven. Could it be the bindings?

Unlike Wrathful, I wouldn't say the Infinity is a noodle. I'd say it's medium, but it's obviously not the board for you.

Regarding what Nivek said about RC, yeah, for me the 'ball between the feet' feeling only happens when you flat base. If you flat base on steeps, it's probably wise to stay away from RC/Rocker.


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

cocolulu said:


> This thread blows my mind.
> 
> Neni, out of curiosity, how tall are you? I'm also 120 lbs., and on any board larger than, say 150, the stance would probably be much too wide even at the innermost/narrowest screw slots.
> 
> I'm also about half a shoe size smaller than you, so I'm surprised you had trouble getting into the Raven. Could it be the bindings?


I'm 5.6ft, rode the Liberty Carbon 157 in the most outer stances (60cm) but if on a new board, I begin with the center ones: on the Flagship this equals 54cm and this felt fine for me too so I'm still on this width; my boots are 28cm long; no chance to ride the very narrow small Raven with 0 grade at the hind boot


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## behi (Feb 27, 2013)

neni said:


> I'm 5.6ft, rode the Liberty Carbon 157 in the most outer stances (60cm) but if on a new board, I begin with the center ones: on the Flagship this equals 54cm and this felt fine for me too so I'm still on this width;


Have you tried a wider stance on the flagship? On choppy groomers/tracked out powder, I strongly prefer an insanely wide stance (68cm, symmetric duck), makes for a much smoother/more controlled ride... On smoother terrain, I don't mind something more normal (60cm, slightly forward duck). I'm 6'2".


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## Lamps (Sep 3, 2011)

For carving on groomers I'd give the custom X a demo.


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

ufff... over the last days of seeking a new snowboard, my emotions went from excitement over astonishment and disillusion to frustration and back again to curiosity.

Tried hard to find a Nidecker dealer. Visited/phoned >10 dealers listed on the nidecker.com homepage for my city. Got the same answer everywhere: we don't sell snowbaords at all / we don't sell Nidecker anymore / this number is out of operation. The shops, that actually had boards, don't have demo boards (oh, you should have come to the big demo day - ehm... yes).

Ended up in a shop outside the city I haven't known it existed. Talked with a guy who seemed to know his business (has ridden the Flagship as well as all the other boards he's selling and was a alpine race pro several years, so I assumed he knew what I meant when I was talking about my chatter/edge hold/carve concerns). He seduced me to get a real contrast to the Flagship (you've already a great fast carver, get something different to learn something new, kill time on the slope while waiting for the telly guys. Get one with pop, nice to jump and ride switch). The board he suggested was one I've never heard of before; the shape looked so weird, it made me curious. They have no demo boards; he just ripped off the stickers of a brand new one and said: this will be your demo. Seems that he's very convinced that I'll buy it anyway. Had to promise, that I'll ride it for at least two days to get used to it. 

I have the weirdest looking board I've ever seen in my trunk. A Burton Sherlock (do I hear a moan of some of you guys?). Looks like a major skipped-quality-control-manufacturing-fault thing :laugh: and I'm a bit afraid of it after reading the reviews now :blink: Well... it's the "try something new" season and nobody can blame me for not being open minded . 

If you don't hear anything from me until after Easter, this thing killed me while trying to go straight line flatbased on the runout to the chairlift


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## Banjo (Jan 29, 2013)

HAHAHA, neni you are awesome!

Let us know how you like it! If I remember correctly its a type of CRC...with a setback. No taper but a directional camber profile...but you should be able to center the bindings and ride switch :thumbsup:

What size did he give you to demo?


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

Banjo said:


> HAHAHA, neni you are awesome!
> 
> Let us know how you like it! If I remember correctly its a type of CRC...with a setback. No taper but a directional camber profile...but you should be able to center the bindings and ride switch :thumbsup:
> 
> What size did he give you to demo?


157. With Burton Escapade EST bindings. After some arguing, I even allowed him to fix them "duck-ish" (+20/-8)  (I'll ride with a screwdriver in my pockets this weekend!)

They call it Flying V. Looks like a tank rolled over it :laugh:


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## skip11 (Jan 28, 2010)

I think it's either centered or 0.5 inch setback with a directional flex. Yes it is a flying-v board with side effects and squeezebox tech.


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## Mpjames 09 (Dec 21, 2012)

Neni, when you went looking for Nideckers, what city/country were you looking? I will try to get you an email address for a Nidecker rep close to you. I really want you to see these boards before you make a purchase. Cheers


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## Mpjames 09 (Dec 21, 2012)

What Nideckers were you able to see? What did you think? It's stupid that they have no boards to demo. What are you supposed to do, buy one and hope you love it. In working on that email address. I would also email Nidecker directly about your experience.


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## wernersl (Dec 28, 2011)

Im beginning to hate you MP! Kind of getting obsessed about finding a Mega or Ultra to ride and compare to my Raptor. This could get expensive.


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## Mpjames 09 (Dec 21, 2012)

I'm only going by personal experience, I can't give a recommendation on a board I've never ridden.I have heard nothing but good things about the Raptor, i just cant offer an opinion until ive ridden it. Most people that ask for a recommendation want it from someone that has actually ridden it. You ask to ride my board , then you make a comment like that, not cool.


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

Mpjames 09 said:


> What Nideckers were you able to see? What did you think? It's stupid that they have no boards to demo. What are you supposed to do, buy one and hope you love it. In working on that email address. I would also email Nidecker directly about your experience.


Not a single one... None of the dealers I contacted had Nidecker snowboards (this was the confusion/frustration emotional change  ) yes, I wrote them, curious about the answer.


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## wernersl (Dec 28, 2011)

Mpjames 09 said:


> I'm only going by personal experience, I can't give a recommendation on a board I've never ridden.I have heard nothing but good things about the Raptor, i just cant offer an opinion until ive ridden it. Most people that ask for a recommendation want it from someone that has actually ridden it. You ask to ride my board , then you make a comment like that, not cool.


Oh don't take offense. It was meant to be funny. I've eyed up the mega/ultra for a long time. Just rekindled my interest in wanting to ride one! That's all. Meet ya out there one of these days!


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## Mpjames 09 (Dec 21, 2012)

No offense taken, thanks for your response back. Sorry I missed the humor. I would love to ride with you, you're a dedicated rider with great taste in boards.


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

Nidecker replied very fast: got a call from a Nidecker CH guy and he was very helpful and supplied information where to demo their boards :bowdown:

There's a demo weekend 6/7 April at the glacier of Les Diableres where one can demo the Megalight and Ultralight, and the next years Nidecker and Jones boards will be at the Saas Feel demo in autumn (he recommended to give the Jones Aviator a try). 

I'll get a demo Megalight within the next days  :yahoo:


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## rambob (Mar 5, 2011)

I mentioned the Nidecker boards clear back on the first page of your thread but everybody was to busy offering advice on their perspective of 'groomer boards'. From what I've read and heard about the Nidecker Ultra and Mega lights theres no question how they will perform. I would just make sure you dont go too long as they posess a very stiff longitunal flex. The other factor is that 2013 Megalights come with camber or camrock profile, the Ultralights just come with the camrock.


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

rambob said:


> I mentioned the Nidecker boards clear back on the first page of your thread but everybody was to busy offering advice on their perspective of 'groomer boards'. From what I've read and heard about the Nidecker Ultra and Mega lights theres no question how they will perform. I would just make sure you dont go too long as they posess a very stiff longitunal flex. The other factor is that 2013 Megalights come with camber or camrock profile, the Ultralights just come with the camrock.


Yes... I didn't had them on the bucket list cause they were not part on the demo day. If I renember correctly, the smallest 2014 will be 158...


BTW: Oh what a winter... this time of year, the pasture behind the cottage normally is green, with spring flowers. This very morning:


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

Okey. First day on the Sherlock. Had the most horrible conditions: foggy, wet snow fall all day. All slopes covered with deep bumps/moguls already in the morning, even the usually flat runouts were pretty chopped up. To ride this with the Flagship would have exhausted me after two runs. Rode the Sherlock 6hrs, still not tired  very mellow and damp. 
The first run with duck angles was awful, felt so "wrong", couldn't use my steering leg properly, my hip just felt blocked. After adjusting to "normal" angles I could ride again. After some runs it even began to be fun. Trashing over the bumps, hop, jump, making short turns, the Sherlock did behave well. I even rode with loose boots (fastened as hard as I can in the Flagy), it was so tame. 
One thing was rather weird: centered edge to edge transition isn't a continuous movement. It's like a short lag phase and then suddenly the other edge snaps. Feels like catching an edge the first times but it isn't. Think, this is the thing one needs to get used to on this V shape...? It's smoother if more on the front foot.

Can't give any statement how it carves, conditions didn't enable proper carving. It'll be very cold this night so tomorrow there'll be hardpack. Curious, how the board will perform then. But all in all, the board enabled me to ride a full day in bumps, where the Flagship would have been horrible. Not bad so far 

On and yes... riding switch: uuuurgh... no fun so far. Might have been the conditions but I'm surely also very untalented


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## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

neni said:


> BTW: Oh what a winter... this time of year, the pasture behind the cottage normally is green, with spring flowers. This very morning:


neni u need a skijoring board...iirc you got horses


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## silverwhale (Nov 17, 2012)

Out of curiosity, what are your "normal" angles? I learned to snowboard duckfoot, but this year wanted to switch it up with a zero (or even slightly positive) angle with my back foot - so I adjusted the stance and went out once, it felt really really weird. I almost fell a bunch of times because I got off balance every time I went on my heelside. So I ended up switching back to duck for the rest of the season. I'm thinking for next year I just need to give it a bit more time so I can adjust, I don't ride switch at all so duck stance just seems to make me twist my knee more than I should - especially when I am naturally pigeon toed when I walk (so turning both feet out is actually pretty difficult when my feet aren't strapped into bindings). Too bad the conditions weren't great, but glad you had a good day anyway!


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

wrathfuldeity said:


> neni u need a skijoring board...iirc you got horses


Hahaha... one young * very spooky *thourough bread :blink: we actually thought about it. maybe in some years when he calmed down a bit :laugh:




silverwhale said:


> Out of curiosity, what are your "normal" angles? I learned to snowboard duckfoot, but this year wanted to switch it up with a zero (or even slightly positive) angle with my back foot - so I adjusted the stance and went out once, it felt really really weird. I almost fell a bunch of times because I got off balance every time I went on my heelside. So I ended up switching back to duck for the rest of the season. I'm thinking for next year I just need to give it a bit more time so I can adjust, I don't ride switch at all so duck stance just seems to make me twist my knee more than I should - especially when I am naturally pigeon toed when I walk (so turning both feet out is actually pretty difficult when my feet aren't strapped into bindings). Too bad the conditions weren't great, but glad you had a good day anyway!


The last 10 years I rode +30/+15 or +18. This season I began to reduce the angles step by step (preparation to learn to ride switch). +24/+9 then +21/+6. Tried +15/+3 but then I had numbing pressure at the outer side of the front foot, telling me that this foot "wants" to be in a steeper angle. I feel very comfortable now with between +18 and +24/+3 (when I had to ride the Raven in steep hind angles like at the beginning of the season, this formerly comfortable angle now felt weird ). It's impressive how soon one can get used to something . It sounds as if a positive hind angle could be a good solution for you. I'd say, try to adjust the angles bit by bit, e.g. each day 3 degrees so your muscle memory gets the time to adapt. I'll give the minus degrees another try this week.

:laugh: yes, my day was by far more relaxing than for the telly guys. Poor ones were struggeling a lot in the wet heavy bumpy snow with their two planks  husband already anounced, that he gonna take the board tomorrow


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

Oooooh sweet! Unexpected Easter present: over night 20cm fresh pow :yahoo::yahoo::yahoo: life is beautiful









Fix bindings on Sherlock to the most setback stances: pretty nice flow in powder


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

*New love: Volkl Coal XT*

Holy crap! Got a eyes-opener afternoon. After two days on the Sherlock I felt pretty ok on it, but far from confident enough to charge. Had a little "groomer carve board" chat with a guy at the bar. He went to fetch his board and asked: wanna try my baby? You might like it: *Volkl Coal XT 168 *

Thick fog at the top, chopped up slopes. Well, I presume there were bumps, haven't seen them  and what's best: didn't feel them! The Coal cut through them like a knife. No worries to get bucked off, just ride! Well dampened compared to the Flagship. No worries about stability, it IS stable. Dared to straight line the runout immediately. Felt at home again. Although a monster board for my size (it's only 4cm smaller than me) and even though the stance was a bit wide and the bindings too big, I felt immediately far more secure on this beast than on the Sherlock. It was surprisingly easy to handle. Bit heavy, but responsive, very fast edge to edge. Hop turn in moguls was a bit work, but hell, its a 168 

And carving... oh yes! THIS IS THE MOST INSANE CARVER I've been on. I'm not a designated carver, how well I carve depends a lot on the board/conditions. With this board I was flat. Not once by pure luck, all the time. In crappy groomers, with very bad sight. 

*If bound to groomers, this is my world*. Learned a lot the last days. I'm not a RC / V person, this is now clear to me. I loose too much confidence on them and I detest myself if I ride like auntie Helen.

Still curious about the Megalight, but so far, the Coal went to top position on my list with lots of exclamation marks  lucky me... the shop where I was given the demo Sherlock sells Volkl too; the smallest Coal is 158.

Anyone here who rides a Coal XT? Would love to hear your opinions. How does it ride on hardpack? Pros/Cons? Did I only have the impression that it's well dampened cause of the rather soft snow?


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## behi (Feb 27, 2013)

*Voelkl Coal XT*



neni said:


> [...]
> *even though the stance was a bit wide*
> [...]
> Did I only have the impression that it's well dampened cause of the rather soft snow?


The soft snow makes things MUCH easier for the board. I.e. my Elan El Grande that tries to rattle my teeth out on frozen corduroy and likes to get air on harder chop handles very well in soft chop.

What also helps, is cutting through the chop on edge and using the wide stance. Something else to keep in mind, a torsionally stiff board board will be much easier to turn and feel much more agile on soft snow (benefit from the soft conditions much more than a 'flexier' board).

So from your test conditions, I don't think you can tell much about how it's going to look like on hard stuff.

If you are interested in a Coal carving video:
Voelkl Coal XT 168 - carving in soft boots - YouTube


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

behi said:


> Something else to keep in mind, a torsionally stiff board board will be much easier to turn and feel much more agile on soft snow (benefit from the soft conditions much more than a 'flexier' board).
> 
> So from your test conditions, I don't think you can tell much about how it's going to look like on hard stuff.
> 
> ...


Thanks! Okey, so I guess, it's the torsional stiffness that I need to feel "in charge" and why I had the impression that the Flagship is easy to turn/agile. The soft Sherlok was like "hey common, would you PLEASE turn?!?" 

Interesting review from the guy in your vid ExtremeCarving FORUM • View topic - Swoard Dual vs Voelkl Coal hmmm...


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## behi (Feb 27, 2013)

neni said:


> Thanks! Okey, so I guess, it's the torsional stiffness that I need to feel "in charge" and why I had the impression that the Flagship is easy to turn/agile. The soft Sherlok was like "hey common, would you PLEASE turn?!?"


Hm, what I wanted to say is a torsionally stiff board will be sluggish with foot-steering and in soft snow, that's a lot less noticeable.

I guess, you don't use use much foot-steering and put the board on edge. The Sherlock should be much better for foot-steering...

I.e. my stiff LTB takes ages for initiating turns with foot-steering, but aggressively put on edge, it turns really fast. That's probably what you are doing...


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

behi said:


> I guess, you don't use use much foot-steering and put the board on edge. The Sherlock should be much better for foot-steering...
> 
> I.e. my stiff LTB takes ages for initiating turns with foot-steering, but aggressively put on edge, it turns really fast. That's probably what you are doing...


Hmm... I'll monitor myself today. Thanks for the hints! There's so much to learn


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

Ah... this was an awful day. To know, that there's fresh pow waiting, but fog so thick that I even got lost on groomers I've riden thousand times was a torture. You didn't recognize if you were riding up or down hill, eyes so confused that the balance center was disturbed and I felt dizzy :dizzy: well, wind finally came after sunset. Now the sky is full of stars and the alarm clock is set to verrrry early. Want to be the first ones up there! :yahoo:

Anyway, got plenty of time to find out how I do turns. I use the toes first to initiate a frontside turn, then put force on the egde by lowering the knees a bit, hip and acles stay centered so the shins are actually transferring the pressure on the edge (got pretty stiff boots). Backside I shift a bit weight to the heel and use the highback. Front leg initiates turns, hind leg does the finishing. What was striking to me is that I don't use my ancles. They are fixated in the hard fastened boots and stay in the same angles. I'd say I ride more with my knees than with the feet. Does that make any sense? :icon_scratch:


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

Had many wonderful pow runs with the Flagship this spring. Today, at perfect groomers from 3500m to 2500m, surrounded by dramatic high alpine scenery, carve, bomb lines - so much fun! I love this board  Just wanted to say this, cause from my statements of the rather harsh ride in crap groomers one could think I dont like the Flagship... 













Nivek said:


> ... For starters these are the womens boards I'd point you towards: Ride Farrah, K2 Eco Lite, Salomon Idol...


By pure chance I run into a Ride Farha 153 to demo tomorrow  very curious! Tell me more of it... is the edgehold on ice really an issue? (yes I know, thegoodride is no good, but still...) wont be able to ride it on ice here.


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## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

I had no grip issues on the Berzerker, the mens equivalent.

It has camber from the back foot to the contact pts and is flat between the feet. You have a lot of edge to work with. It will not grip as well as youur Flagship. Your board now has much more effective edge and has magne. That said you shouldnt have any grip issues with the Farrah as long as you know how to use your edges. 

When you demo it take some easy laps to get used to the profile. Figure out where it likes to be pushed and where it doesnt. If you try and ride it the exact same way as your Flagship you'll likely have a bad time. And be prepared for significantly quicker edge to edge. It's going to be narrower and softer.


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

Nivek said:


> I had no grip issues on the Berzerker, the mens equivalent.
> 
> It has camber from the back foot to the contact pts and is flat between the feet. You have a lot of edge to work with. It will not grip as well as youur Flagship. Your board now has much more effective edge and has magne. That said you shouldnt have any grip issues with the Farrah as long as you know how to use your edges.
> 
> When you demo it take some easy laps to get used to the profile. Figure out where it likes to be pushed and where it doesnt. If you try and ride it the exact same way as your Flagship you'll likely have a bad time. And be prepared for significantly quicker edge to edge. It's going to be narrower and softer.


The search has come to an end  hey, I owe you a beer! After a day on the demo, went straight to the shop to buy a new Ride Farah 153 (even squeezed a 30% sale).

The Farha was pure fun today. Rode in various conditions, but mostly in pow and moguls. Wasnt sure what you meant by this significant quicker edge to edge transition cause I thought that the Flagship is very fast edge to edge. But the Farah is _effortless_ edge to edge! I rode with my boots wide open, very relaxed. Riding the Flagy in moguls is hard work. The Farah in moguls is pure fun. I was yelling of joy whyle slashing through those formerly hated moguls, jumping over some bigger ones, smoothe landing and immediately slay through the next ones. 
First meters in pow I regreted to dont have the Flagy. Float is (obviously) less good with the shorter Farah, but with minor body adaptions the next 4 pow runs where also great. Short turns in steep are very easy. Everything is so very easy on this board!
Also found a nasty ice run. Well, edgehold is not as good as with the Flagy, but still good. No reason to slow down here. The same is true for carving. 
The most important point: it is chatter free and stable at higher speeds. I still need to adapt a pit to it, sure it is not a fraight train like the Flagy, but for a board giving me such an amount of playfulness I was very surprised by its stability! Tomorrow I'll hit the park to find some nice little jumps - for the first time in my life  this board made me curious, what I can land safely.


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## hktrdr (Apr 3, 2012)

neni said:


> The search has come to an end  hey, I owe you a beer! After a day on the demo, went straight to the shop to buy a new Ride Farah 153 (even squeezed a 30% sale).
> 
> The Farha was pure fun today. Rode in various conditions, but mostly in pow and moguls. Wasnt sure what you meant by this significant quicker edge to edge transition cause I thought that the Flagship is very fast edge to edge. But the Farah is _effortless_ edge to edge! I rode with my boots wide open, very relaxed. Riding the Flagy in moguls is hard work. The Farah in moguls is pure fun. I was yelling of joy whyle slashing through those formerly hated moguls, jumping over some bigger ones, smoothe landing and immediately slay through the next ones.
> First meters in pow I regreted to dont have the Flagy. Float is (obviously) less good with the shorter Farah, but with minor body adaptions the next 4 pow runs where also great. Short turns in steep are very easy. Everything is so very easy on this board!
> ...


To be honest, most of what you are describing sounds more like a result of downsizing rather than riding a different board...


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

hktrdr said:


> To be honest, most of what you are describing sounds more like a result of downsizing rather than riding a different board...


Naa... dont think so. Cant say it for sure, cause I havent riden a shorter Flagy, but I'm very sure that also a shorter one would have the same lack of dampness that makes it a strenuous ride in moguls/crud. The 164 Raptor was easyer for me to ride in crud... I can turn the Flagy in very short tight turns with ease. Its not the turning that is difficult. Its the lack of absorption that forces you to ride very deep in your knees in crud or youll lift off and this makes you tired soon. This was not nessecairy with the Raptor nor the Farah.
Maybe I'm wrong, but my conclusion is that the Flagy is a very specialized board. What makes it so great for pow and going fast makes it bad in crud.


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## rideordiechick (Jan 27, 2013)

Great forum!




neni said:


> I'm 5.6ft, rode the Liberty Carbon 157 in the most outer stances (60cm) but if on a new board, I begin with the center ones: on the Flagship this equals 54cm and this felt fine for me too so I'm still on this width; my boots are 28cm long; no chance to ride the very narrow small Raven with 0 grade at the hind boot


Wow! With your stats, riding a 157... Impressive! I'm 5'5 and 140 lbs. I want a longer snowboard and thinking of getting size 153. I might get a men's board but there are some snowboards (ie. ultralight) that the smallest size is 158. How do you like riding much longer snowboards compared to smaller ones? Are you happy with the Farah 153? I heard it's a good snowboard.

Doesn't seem too common to have women ride such long snowboards. Props to you! :bowdown:


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

rideordiechick said:


> Wow! With your stats, riding a 157... Impressive! I'm 5'5 and 140 lbs. I want a longer snowboard and thinking of getting size 153. I might get a men's board but there are some snowboards (ie. ultralight) that the smallest size is 158. How do you like riding much longer snowboards compared to smaller ones? Are you happy with the Farah 153? I heard it's a good snowboard.
> 
> Doesn't seem too common to have women ride such long snowboards. Props to you! :bowdown:



You're not the first one mentioning something alike, and you know what? That is making me insecure. It's a fine line between doing somethin _in a different way_ and doing something _the wrong way_...
Anyway. All impressions of the boards I tested are somewhere scattered in this thread but I try to summarize what I didn't like with the smaller (<150) boards I've riden so far:
Burton Custom: bad float in pow and chatter at higher speeds. I guess these points are objective.
NS Raven, the smallest one 146. Too narrow for my flat hind angle, wasn't able to carve with it, edge didn't hold when it was pushed - very subjective, dependent on my riding style. I was pushing too much and couldn't reduce the force.
Salomon Idol app. 149: too light, I didn't _feel_ the board - also very subjective, could as well be an advantage for someone else.

What I like with stiffer/longer boards (leave out major detail of different shapes) e.g. Ride Highlife 155, Flagship 158, NS Raptor 164, Volkl Coal 168: edgehold! You can really push/lay into a carve. The 164 Raptor and 168 Coal were obviously too long and wide, just rode them for fun, significant slower edge to edge and heavy. Wouldn't want to navigate the Coal through moguls :laugh:

I like the Farah 153 for being something in between. Not too soft, not too short. Not as stable as the Flagship but still chatter free at 48mph, pretty good float in the little pow I was able to ride with it with bindings set back into +1 hind inserts, very responsive and fast/effortless edge to edge, good edge hold while carving if I reduce the force of hind leg a bit. Fun in moguls and to surf spring slush. A very good all mountain board. Be aware that its discontinued next year. You get good offers for this years models. Got mine 30% off.


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