# Which companies (brands) have faster bases?



## RockSteady (Jan 14, 2013)

Fast Base: Oxess, SG, Kessler, Donek, Prior---these are more for racing
Most every higher end freestyle board like LIB snowboards have a good base that is very capable of high speeds but this is only one part of the problem.

It's different board to board though. waxing and sliding on snow is a science and the type of wax that's on your board is super important piece of this. I'm guessing your base is plenty fast. You might just be a little dry or have the wrong temp range of wax on there. Also any man made snow will rip the wax right off your board in less than a day. You can go for days on nice soft fresh snow without a fresh wax but man mad snow is sharp and jagged and rips the wax right off your board like sand paper.


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## TorpedoVegas (Dec 25, 2011)

I don't know about that... I have a TRice Pro and it's bloody fast, accelerates really quickly and never gives me issues on the flats.


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## bseracka (Nov 14, 2011)

Its a brand new board! You don't need a base grind and structure yet. Your board still has the factory structure. Just get a wax, or get some good wax and do it your self.


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## Leo (Nov 24, 2009)

Hmm... Not sure who has the fastest board, but I will say in my experience, Burton has the most consistently fast bases. 

I attend demos where I'm likely riding boards that haven't ever been waxed. Burton's sintered WFO base never disappoints.


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## CK93 (Dec 9, 2012)

Cool thanks. 

The resort I was at (Keystone) is mostly man made snow, so I guess most of my wax is gone.

And yeah, I was a little worried about grinding such a new board. I will go for just the wax.

Plus that is good to here the Rice board is fast. I kinda figured it would have to be, cause I doubt someone like Travis Rice would ride a slow board. 

Thanks for the inputs.. its always good to hear new opinions. 

I think the Hot Knife has a different base than the Rice does. Liking the Rice to try out the hybrid design. Plus I hear that board is a little wider than others, which will help my big feet.


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## CK93 (Dec 9, 2012)

Leo said:


> Hmm... Not sure who has the fastest board, but I will say in my experience, Burton has the most consistently fast bases.
> 
> I attend demos where I'm likely riding boards that haven't ever been waxed. Burton's sintered WFO base never disappoints.


Yeah, I am hearing that a lot too. That Burton excelled in that area. Not looking for the fastest base out there, just some good ones that are a little faster than average.


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## smerdyakov (May 30, 2012)

I found my Hot Knife to be quite fast. Maybe my other board is just that much slower. I think the Travis Rice model has the same base as the Hot Knife.


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## SnowDragon (Apr 23, 2012)

Salomon Burner or Salomon XLT. Both cambered boards if you're okay with that. Seriously fast boards.

My TRice Pro Horsepower seems fast enough, even compared to the two boards I mention above.


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## cjcameron11 (Feb 5, 2011)

CK93 said:


> Wanted to run this through here cause I never take the word of just one person.
> 
> I am currently riding the Lib Hot knife. I think it is a great board except that when I am flat running, it is not very fast. Only boarded on it 2 days so far, so it still has factory wax. I am going to have some pattern added to the base and new wax applied that the local shop here said will make it faster.
> 
> ...


Im tipping that the big difference between the custom x and hotknife is the magne traction and the camber profiles, they would have more of an impact on board speed than anything else.


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## RockSteady (Jan 14, 2013)

cjcameron11 said:


> Im tipping that the big difference between the custom x and hotknife is the magne traction and the camber profiles, they would have more of an impact on board speed than anything else.


That does make a difference but not more than wax


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## cjcameron11 (Feb 5, 2011)

RockSteady said:


> That does make a difference but not more than wax


The amount of surface area in contact with the snow at a time most certainly does make more of a difference than the type or amount of wax used.


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## liner (Jan 8, 2013)

cjcameron11 said:


> Im tipping that the big difference between the custom x and hotknife is the magne traction and the camber profiles, they would have more of an impact on board speed than anything else.


Ive only ridding a gnu riders choice once, but I have a TRS on the way(should be here in a week!!), but riding the gnu, i may agree with you. 

the banana tech + magna trx gave me a mega quick responsive feel. But to really barrel down the straights, i had a feeling it was going to take some time to dial in pressure just right to get it to fly.

I hear the sintered base on the TRS is quite fast. I got a 155, and Im coming from a burton supermodel 159. I anticipate some serious speed drop at first, but with some days together Im sure we'll be rippin down right.


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## Lamps (Sep 3, 2011)

I was told by a specialist shop that most factory done structuring isn't great, a proper grind might make a difference.


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## jbernste03 (Aug 20, 2012)

Lamps said:


> I was told by a specialist shop that most factory done structuring isn't great, a proper grind might make a difference.


your specialist shop is out of their minds


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## tecknojoe (Jan 6, 2008)

I've had my NS proto ct up to 70mph. Hope to break 80 this year but it's getting hard to find good groomers. All I do is wax every 3 days and anything is plenty fast


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## RockSteady (Jan 14, 2013)

*OK genius*

:dizzy:


cjcameron11 said:


> The amount of surface area in contact with the snow at a time most certainly does make more of a difference than the type or amount of wax used.


Let me explain this to you instead of arguing in one line sentences like yourself my friend. 
What your saying is like saying how big a car is, is more important to its movement then it having spinning wheels. Like wax the wheel was the incredible invention that kept momentum and gained speed down hill. How is a vehicle suppose to break friction and gain speed at any size without spinning rubber tires are the equivalent to your wax on your board. This is the only thing for the board that's touching snow to start breaking friction and carry speed. Whether you push a large or a small object down hill they will both have the ability to move very fast with spinning tires on axel on ground or surface wax on snow. Large or small a snowboard with a sweet wax job will fly. Take the Wax off a board or remove tires from a vehicle, no matter what the size it is, it will barely move.
This is why Snowboarder's and Skier's have what are called wax techs not board size techs. Although I'm in no way saying surface area and size donesn't matter, I'm just saying nothing's moving with much speed on snow with out something to help break friction touching the the snow.


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## bseracka (Nov 14, 2011)

Lamps said:


> I was told by a specialist shop that most factory done structuring isn't great, a proper grind might make a difference.


Shops are in the business to create revenue. A good way to create revenue is to sell goods and services to people even if they don't need them. This is especially true if you need to pay for specialty equipment like base grinders and sturcturing tools.

That being said, the factory structure may not be ideal for someone's riding conditions and a different structure could benefit them i.e. you pick up a new board in the spring and are going to be riding summer slush. The factory structure isn't ideal for slush, but is it really worth getting new structure cut that will need to be recut the next winter?


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## BlackSnow (Dec 20, 2009)

I hear graphite is suppose to be good for going fast. I've never played around with it, but is this true? Also does it go on like regular wax (iron on and scrape)?


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## cjcameron11 (Feb 5, 2011)

RockSteady said:


> :dizzy:
> 
> Let me explain this to you instead of arguing in one line sentences like yourself my friend.
> What your saying is like saying how big a car is, is more important to its movement then it having spinning wheels.


Yeaahhhh no, thats not what i'm saying, poor analogy.



RockSteady said:


> Although I'm in no way saying surface area and size donesn't matter, I'm just saying nothing's moving with much speed on snow with out something to help break friction touching the the snow.


Actually i believe that is what you're arguing.


Anyways, after your poor attempt at being sarcastic listen up and you might learn something. Yes wax will make a board go faster than one without, BUT the biggest difference (and my initial argument) to speed on two same sized boards waxed with the same wax would be surface area in contact with the snow. Thats called friction, or drag, and if you have a custom x vs a lib btx or c2 etc which has more contact points on the snow while flat basing then yeah, it causes more friction and drag, hence slowing you.

Case in point is why alpine racers use narrow, cambered boards, with less base contact with the snow, if banana profiles were faster they would be using them.


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## redlude97 (Jan 9, 2008)

RockSteady said:


> :dizzy:
> 
> Let me explain this to you instead of arguing in one line sentences like yourself my friend.
> What your saying is like saying how big a car is, is more important to its movement then it having spinning wheels. Like wax the wheel was the incredible invention that kept momentum and gained speed down hill. How is a vehicle suppose to break friction and gain speed at any size without spinning rubber tires are the equivalent to your wax on your board. This is the only thing for the board that's touching snow to start breaking friction and carry speed. Whether you push a large or a small object down hill they will both have the ability to move very fast with spinning tires on axel on ground or surface wax on snow. Large or small a snowboard with a sweet wax job will fly. Take the Wax off a board or remove tires from a vehicle, no matter what the size it is, it will barely move.
> This is why Snowboarder's and Skier's have what are called wax techs not board size techs. Although I'm in no way saying surface area and size donesn't matter, I'm just saying nothing's moving with much speed on snow with out something to help break friction touching the the snow.


Except you are wrong. Maybe try this. Ride a 150 and a 160 of the same board and straigtline it. Which one do you think will be faster? Even the 160 without wax will likely be faster than the 150 with wax. The gains from waxing in most conditions are marginal. 

As to which boards have the fastest bases? IME Bataleon TBT bases are the fastest. Not because of material but because of the camber+TBT. Almost no drag in the snow=straightline rocket.


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## Lamps (Sep 3, 2011)

bseracka said:


> Shops are in the business to create revenue. A good way to create revenue is to sell goods and services to people even if they don't need them. This is especially true if you need to pay for specialty equipment like base grinders and sturcturing tools.


This is a naive response. 

The guys at Vancouver Ski and Board services sell what you need, not what they can get away with. 

I've had structuring done there and the result was a definite improvement. 

No doubt these services got oversold but real shops won't scam you. I've had other shops in Ontario tell me no need to sharpen, we'll just wax it, save you some money. I return to those shops because I trust them.


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## jdthai (Feb 15, 2012)

redlude97 said:


> ...As to which boards have the fastest bases? IME Bataleon TBT bases are the fastest. Not because of material but because of the camber+TBT. Almost no drag in the snow=straightline rocket.


I can attest to this.
Although I've only ridden a handful of boards, when I took my Lobster Jib Board out for the first time (also TBT) I couldn't believe the speed. Could be a coincidence, but it was a huge difference!


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## cjcameron11 (Feb 5, 2011)

redlude97 said:


> Except you are wrong. Maybe try this. Ride a 150 and a 160 of the same board and straigtline it. Which one do you think will be faster? Even the 160 without wax will likely be faster than the 150 with wax. The gains from waxing in most conditions are marginal.
> 
> As to which boards have the fastest bases? IME Bataleon TBT bases are the fastest. Not because of material but because of the camber+TBT. Almost no drag in the snow=straightline rocket.


^^ This, its simple common sense.:eusa_clap:


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## StrattonRider (Sep 16, 2012)

i know that Never summer makes some pretty damn fast boards.


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## RockSteady (Jan 14, 2013)

cjcameron11 said:


> ^^ This, its simple common sense.:eusa_clap:


First your so wrong man...some conditions a snowboard wont even move without wax...Dude your so uneducated on snowboarding, have you ever heard of or rode an Oxess, Kesser, donek, Prior or SG..these are the fastest, haha:dizzy:
You just showed your grasp of snowboarding knowledge saying Bataleon's are the fastest...You must be joking...I hope you understand they make these things called race/BX boards.


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## RockSteady (Jan 14, 2013)

redlude97 said:


> Except you are wrong. Maybe try this. Ride a 150 and a 160 of the same board and straigtline it. Which one do you think will be faster? Even the 160 without wax will likely be faster than the 150 with wax. The gains from waxing in most conditions are marginal.
> 
> As to which boards have the fastest bases? IME Bataleon TBT bases are the fastest. Not because of material but because of the camber+TBT. Almost no drag in the snow=straightline rocket.


You grab your Bataleon I will grab my Tiny ass Oxess and lets see who wins...for you to say Bataleons are fastest...hmm why do no BX's use them, I only see SG, Donek, Oxess and last but not least Kessler. As far as the more commercial boards go, I bet you anything a Custom X will smoke a Bataleon. Bataleon has patened side ways rocker that's not gonna speed you up.:laugh:


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## RockSteady (Jan 14, 2013)

RockSteady said:


> You grab your Bataleon I will grab my Tiny ass Oxess and lets see who wins...for you to say Bataleons are fastest...hmm why do no BX's use them, I only see SG, Donek, Oxess and last but not least Kessler. As far as the more commercial boards go, I bet you anything a Custom X will smoke a Bataleon. Bataleon has patened side ways rocker that's not gonna speed you up.:laugh:


As soon as you loser's enter a race or pony up money for racing knowing the only way your gonna see a return on investment is winning. Then come talk to me. I can tell very clearly by your guys posts that you wouldn't know the first thing about wax and racing. Until you do, stop talking like you know anything about having the fastest board.

--Opinions were once statements to open discussion. Now opinions are proclamations that turn into nothing. Opinions were once seldom and used for production. Now everyone has an opinion, but what happens, is nothing.


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## Leo (Nov 24, 2009)

redlude97 said:


> Except you are wrong. Maybe try this. Ride a 150 and a 160 of the same board and straigtline it. Which one do you think will be faster? Even the 160 without wax will likely be faster than the 150 with wax. *The gains from waxing in most conditions are marginal. *
> 
> As to which boards have the fastest bases? IME Bataleon TBT bases are the fastest. Not because of material but because of the camber+TBT. Almost no drag in the snow=straightline rocket.


Not really...

Waxing is a freaking science and racers do it for a reason. The difference between each type of wax might be marginal, but waxing overall IS NOT marginal. 

Are you saying that your unwaxed sintered base is only going to be marginally slower than when waxed?

I have not tried TBT yet... closest I've tried to that is the Combo Platter from Forum. I do agree with you that base shape makes a big difference though. Wax does too.


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## RockSteady (Jan 14, 2013)

cjcameron11 said:


> ^^ This, its simple common sense.:eusa_clap:


"Hybrid high-fluoro wax's for ski and snowboard racing will put racers on the winner's podium. It is the difference in keeping up with the fastest board in the world. Easy to apply wax."

NATE HOLLAND---------Most winning BX racer in history

"A ski that has not been waxed will be slow. You might find yourself catching an edge in certain snow conditions."

Daron Rhalves--------Most winning ski racer in American history

I know and have raced along both of these dudes at the Rhalves Banzai


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## CK93 (Dec 9, 2012)

Got some good reading here. Thanks all for the suggestions. I looked at the Bataleon site. They look very interesting. Haven't heard much about them though. Maybe I can find a demo. I would be interested to see how they ride.

But yeah, to give a little background. I bought the Custom X. 2 days up and I soon learned that board is very advanced. (and it lets you know it). 

I was a pretty good rider for the 20 years. I could hold my own. But I had 2 leg surgeries and 2 back surgeries recently and have been out of boarding for 5 years. I had to let my body completely heal. This is my first year back into it. 

I bought the Custom X cause I was used to full Camber and thought it was a good board. It is a great board, but learned I have lost a lot of skill and my body is older. (learned my lesson to not get such a high performance board of the bat as I am re-learning) I wanted to try this new hybrid style of board so I got the Hot Knife as a starter to help get used to try a full hybrid. 

Doing more research, I don't know if a full hybrid is what I want or not. (yes I have read a lot of camber vs hybrid reviews) Still trying to a find a real good fit to what feels good for me.

But I can tell you what I do want is a board with a little faster base so I don't have to unstrap and push my board when I hit flat spots, that has happened a few times with my Hot Knife. I am not disappointed with the Hot Knife. I am going to give it a good waxing with some high speed type wax and see if that does the trick. 

But I still haven't found the board I am totally happy with. When I hone my skills more, I will go back to my Custom X, but still looking for the board that puts a total smile on my face, and, I do like trying out different boards so when I do get the board I am going to stick with for while, I know its the best choice for me.

And yes I do read all the posts. It helps give me a sense of what works best and gives me more stuff to research--I am a research junkie. Plus its fun to watch people go at it! ..... haha


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## RockSteady (Jan 14, 2013)

CK93 said:


> Got some good reading here. Thanks all for the suggestions. I looked at the Bataleon site. They look very interesting. Haven't heard much about them though. Maybe I can find a demo. I would be interested to see how they ride.
> 
> But yeah, to give a little background. I bought the Custom X. 2 days up and I soon learned that board is very advanced. (and it lets you know it).
> 
> ...


HAHA, I'll trade you, I'm a board rep
Send me that (if it's in good shape) Custom X, and I'll send you any Rossignol brand new hybrid board that is fun to learn on but can do anything.


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## cjcameron11 (Feb 5, 2011)

RockSteady said:


> First your so wrong man...some conditions a snowboard wont even move without wax...Dude your so uneducated on snowboarding, have you ever heard of or rode an Oxess, Kesser, donek, Prior or SG..these are the fastest, haha:dizzy:
> You just showed your grasp of snowboarding knowledge saying Bataleon's are the fastest...You must be joking...I hope you understand they make these things called race/BX boards.


God you're a fuckhole aren't you, instead of taking snippits of what people say how bout you answer what is relevant, you know, like what i wrote in the previous post. I never said a bataleon was the fastest board, i was pointing out that the boards profile has more to do with speed than wax. AS I HAVE SAID 3 TIMES.

Good for you you big shot, you're my hero i wish i could have been a hardboot racer, you must be a fucking legend, please where do i sign up for your fan page? do you do autographs??? I'd love to see you ride in your spandex.

Stick to sucking alpine racers off douche, and if you are a board rep which i highly doubt then god help the people you offer advice to.


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## cjcameron11 (Feb 5, 2011)

Leo said:


> Not really...
> 
> Waxing is a freaking science and racers do it for a reason. The difference between each type of wax might be marginal, but waxing overall IS NOT marginal.
> 
> ...


Leo, i think you may be mistaken. He is the one arguing that base shape does not affect a boards speed as much as a fresh wax job does. And as soon as someone argued the point he seems to have changed his point of view to suit.

Im with you, wax makes a small difference, the big factor is the shape of the board and the camber profile. Which is exactly what i said t begin with, i have no idea what this dude is on.


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## jtg (Dec 11, 2012)

liner said:


> Ive only ridding a gnu riders choice once, but I have a TRS on the way(should be here in a week!!), but riding the gnu, i may agree with you.
> 
> the banana tech + magna trx gave me a mega quick responsive feel. But to really barrel down the straights, i had a feeling it was going to take some time to dial in pressure just right to get it to fly.
> 
> I hear the sintered base on the TRS is quite fast. I got a 155, and Im coming from a burton supermodel 159. I anticipate some serious speed drop at first, but with some days together Im sure we'll be rippin down right.


TRS doesn't have a sintered base. Doesn't come in 155 either.


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## RockSteady (Jan 14, 2013)

cjcameron11 said:


> God you're a fuckhole aren't you, instead of taking snippits of what people say how bout you answer what is relevant, you know, like what i wrote in the previous post. I never said a bataleon was the fastest board, i was pointing out that the boards profile has more to do with speed than wax. AS I HAVE SAID 3 TIMES.
> 
> Good for you you big shot, you're my hero i wish i could have been a hardboot racer, you must be a fucking legend, please where do i sign up for your fan page? do you do autographs??? I'd love to see you ride in your spandex.
> 
> Stick to sucking alpine racers off douche, and if you are a board rep which i highly doubt then god help the people you offer advice to.


Ive never used hard boots, lol, you really are ignorant...the banzai is who ever gets to the bottom first race, no spandex, no hard boots and it's widely considered one of the most dangerous races. lol. I cant remember the last time I saw a BX'er with hard boots. Truly ignorant


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## RockSteady (Jan 14, 2013)

cjcameron11 said:


> Leo, i think you may be mistaken. He is the one arguing that base shape does not affect a boards speed as much as a fresh wax job does. And as soon as someone argued the point he seems to have changed his point of view to suit.
> 
> Im with you, wax makes a small difference, the big factor is the shape of the board and the camber profile. Which is exactly what i said t begin with, i have no idea what this dude is on.


I think Leo know's how to read Mom


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## cjcameron11 (Feb 5, 2011)

RockSteady said:


> Ive never used hard boots, lol, you really are ignorant...the banzai is who ever gets to the bottom first race, no spandex, no hard boots and it's widely considered one of the most dangerous races. lol. I cant remember the last time I saw a BX'er with hard boots. Truly ignorant


Still cant admit you were wrong about wax being more important than board profile when it comes to board speed huh, thats cool man, i don't like it when I'm wrong either. Its ok, you keep sticking to your guns mate.


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## RockSteady (Jan 14, 2013)

cjcameron11 said:


> Still cant admit you were wrong about wax being more important than board profile when it comes to board speed huh, thats cool man, i don't like it when I'm wrong either. Its ok, you keep sticking to your guns mate.


This is exactly why nobody likes Australian's, Cheers Mate!


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## cjcameron11 (Feb 5, 2011)

RockSteady said:


> This is exactly why nobody likes Australian's, Cheers Mate!


hahaha i honestly think this is the first time i have heard that before. I didn't realise that our nation was so poorly looked upon by people as worldly as yourself. :laugh:


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## BigmountainVMD (Oct 9, 2011)

Anyways....... :dunno:

Based on my experience, the lib tech factory wax fades quick, and is not as fast as a simple all temp. I used Hertels Super Hot Sauce or Swix and the results were not off the charts, but were substantially better.

That man made stuff will grind most wax off your base pretty fast. It is very abrasive. Sintered bases are much faster when waxed than extruded bases, so maybe a nice hotwax is all you need. Nothing fancy, just a good all temp.

In addition, the Hot knife is C3 camber dominant banana, so only a slight bit of rocker compared to other hybrid boards. I don't think the hybrid nature of the board will slow you down that much, if at all. Also, the base is the same as the T. Rice, which is C2 with more rocker... I have one and can fly no problem.

If you have been out of the game for awhile with serious injuries, I doubt you are straight-lining runs... so base seems to be less of an issue. What I CAN imagine you doing as a previously injured rider out of the game for 5 years would be just trying to make some nice turns at medium to high speed. This, coupled with not riding any of the new "wavy edge tech" released over the last 5 or 6 years, I can TOTALLY see you thinking the board is slow ON EDGE, but I'm not so sure about the base. Slow while carving (on edge) was my first impression of riding a magnatraction board 3 or 4 years ago. I liked it though, cause I had more control in my carves, but Lib magnatraction is the most grippy in my opinion.


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## BigmountainVMD (Oct 9, 2011)

RockSteady said:


> This is exactly why nobody likes Australian's, Cheers Mate!





cjcameron11 said:


> hahaha i honestly think this is the first time i have heard that before. I didn't realise that our nation was so poorly looked upon by people as worldly as yourself. :laugh:


I like Australia for 3 reasons:

1. Cool wildlife
2. New Zealand
3. Based on a scientific social study (as seen on Manswers), Americans are more likely to have a threesome with Australian chicks than ladies from any other country.


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## ShredLife (Feb 6, 2010)

cjcameron11 said:


> Stick to sucking alpine racers off douche, and if you are a board rep which i highly doubt then god help the people you offer advice to.


snowboard company reps don't give advice - they just give blowjobs and handies to shop owners. 

i actually agree with RockSteady on the role of waxing, but i just find it laughable and really fucking sad the attitude that a lot of reps have when they come on the internet. 

if i owned your company i'd probably fire your ass. your #1 job should be positive PR for your company when you come on the internet. you might impress some dumbfuck shop kids when you walk in thru the stickered-up door swingin your dick, but to the majority of people you just look like a fucking idiot. 

you work for a snowboard company getting flown all over on their dime to sell a product that the shops are already going to buy or they're not - fuck its the easiest, cushiest fucking job - you'd think these douchebags would have a lot of positive vibes to throw around but then they get on the internet and start trying to shit on other riders. pathetic. 

you don't deserve to be an ambassador of the sport with a dickface attitude like that. the nice thing is reps come and reps go, and the only thing you get to rep is your shitty company that you're trying so hard to ruin - not the sport of snowboarding as a whole.


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## Planet Boulder (Oct 30, 2012)

cjcameron11 said:


> hahaha i honestly think this is the first time i have heard that before. I didn't realise that our nation was so poorly looked upon by people as worldly as yourself. :laugh:


For whatever it's worth, I have no problem at all with Aussies.


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## RockSteady (Jan 14, 2013)

ShredLife said:


> snowboard company reps don't give advice - they just give blowjobs and handies to shop owners.
> 
> i actually agree with RockSteady on the role of waxing, but i just find it laughable and really fucking sad the attitude that a lot of reps have when they come on the internet.
> 
> ...


You might want to read the thread guy...I havn't shit on anyone. I argued my point and was cussed at and abused along the way. So I told him he was a prick. You sound jealous dude. Settle down, try not to judge so much. Board reps are rarely flown all around. I don't make shit for being a rep other than some free stough...once again get a grip dude. Read the thread befor you go bashing me. Cause if you read the thread then you sound like a hypocrite with all your good vibes talk...I'm all good vibes...not my fault they have arrogant Ausssies on here.


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## RockSteady (Jan 14, 2013)

Planet Boulder said:


> For whatever it's worth, I have no problem at all with Aussies.


I speak from experience, Ive hung with Aussies over here and I've been over there twice. Not all of them are cocky arrogant bastards who think American's are full of themselves...but most of them act like Marines fresh outta boot camp. I've had check a few loud mouth know it all Aussies in my day:laugh:


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## cjcameron11 (Feb 5, 2011)

BigmountainVMD said:


> I like Australia for 3 reasons:
> 
> 1. Cool wildlife
> 2. New Zealand
> 3. Based on a scientific social study (as seen on Manswers), Americans are more likely to have a threesome with Australian chicks than ladies from any other country.


Haha point 3 is def true, kinda like when i lived in the US, accents are awesome things!

We do have some cool ass wildlife too, and yeah NZ, sweet country especially for boarding.


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## cjcameron11 (Feb 5, 2011)

RockSteady said:


> I speak from experience, Ive hung with Aussies over here and I've been over there twice. Not all of them are cocky arrogant bastards who think American's are full of themselves...but most of them act like Marines fresh outta boot camp. I've had check a few loud mouth know it all Aussies in my day:laugh:


You must have met all Aussies after hanging with a few and being here twice, especially cos "most of us act like marines fresh outta boot camp".

Seriously though you're my hero, i wish i could see you "check" me.


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## redlude97 (Jan 9, 2008)

Leo said:


> Not really...
> 
> Waxing is a freaking science and racers do it for a reason. The difference between each type of wax might be marginal, but waxing overall IS NOT marginal.
> 
> ...


Waxing is a science and racers do it because races are won on the order of seconds to milliseconds. Every bit helps. My argument was that it makes less of a difference than base shape/geometry. Maybe I shouldn't have used marginal but can you quantify the increase it makes? The only time a really notice a board being low on wax is on flats and even then it doesn't really stop me. Of course I don't usually go more than 3-4 trips without waxing. I probably overdo it but I also realize the gains I'm getting aren't going to be earth shattering, and the board I pick from the quiver makes more of a difference for a variety of reasons.


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## redlude97 (Jan 9, 2008)

RockSteady said:


> You grab your Bataleon I will grab my Tiny ass Oxess and lets see who wins...for you to say Bataleons are fastest...hmm why do no BX's use them, I only see SG, Donek, Oxess and last but not least Kessler. As far as the more commercial boards go, I bet you anything a Custom X will smoke a Bataleon. Bataleon has patened side ways rocker that's not gonna speed you up.:laugh:


Why did you ignore the important part of my post? Which do you think would be faster? The waxed 150 or the unwaxed 160? Boards dont operate in vacuums. Custom Xs are fast because they lock into carves, whereas bataleons get pretty sketchy at high speeds. But that isn't in a straight line. Your conflating a number of things that contribute to overall speed. To say that base tech plays less of a role than wax is wrong.


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## Leo (Nov 24, 2009)

redlude97 said:


> Waxing is a science and racers do it because races are won on the order of seconds to milliseconds. Every bit helps. My argument was that it makes less of a difference than base shape/geometry. Maybe I shouldn't have used marginal but can you quantify the increase it makes? The only time a really notice a board being low on wax is on flats and even then it doesn't really stop me. Of course I don't usually go more than 3-4 trips without waxing. I probably overdo it but I also realize the gains I'm getting aren't going to be earth shattering, and the board I pick from the quiver makes more of a difference for a variety of reasons.


Yea, that's what I meant by the marginal difference between types of wax because racers get picky over milliseconds. 

I can't quantify how much difference waxed vs a bone dry sintered base makes, but I can definitely notice. I'm not blessed with awesome conditions in Michigan. Our man-made crap eats up wax like nobody's business. I notice when my board needs wax. This is why I also use rub on wax for in-between sessions religiously.

Also, I agree with you on overall board selection making big differences. 

Just saying, the wax thing isn't marginal. Maybe for riding optimal conditions it is :dunno:


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## RockSteady (Jan 14, 2013)

d


redlude97 said:


> Why did you ignore the important part of my post? Which do you think would be faster? The waxed 150 or the unwaxed 160? Boards dont operate in vacuums. Custom Xs are fast because they lock into carves, whereas bataleons get pretty sketchy at high speeds. But that isn't in a straight line. Your conflating a number of things that contribute to overall speed. To say that base tech plays less of a role than wax is wrong.


Dude remove all the wax from your board and go ride any thing other than super freezing crud or ice and see what happens. If it barely makes only a mili sec. difference, why do you even bother waxing. If you speak the truth I'm over waxing. When a base is bone dry not only it will not move on sticky pow. It will stop you cold over the handle bars:dunno:. A base is built to be used with wax. It's pores absorb wax. From the start I said all the tech on a board is important but you guys wanted to discount wax and I think that's wrong.

And your argument with the 150 waxed or 160 unwaxed, 150 all day on variable snow.. There are a lot of things that make the board fast but that lube called wax between the snow and the board, that's what makes it a rocket on almost any snow when done right.


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## Joe Coffee (Dec 12, 2012)

redlude97 said:


> Except you are wrong. Maybe try this. Ride a 150 and a 160 of the same board and straigtline it. Which one do you think will be faster? Even the 160 without wax will likely be faster than the 150 with wax. *The gains from waxing in most conditions are marginal. *
> 
> As to which boards have the fastest bases? IME Bataleon TBT bases are the fastest. Not because of material but because of the camber+TBT. Almost no drag in the snow=straightline rocket.


Are you serious? You go ride a board that hasn't been waxed in weeks and then compare that to a freshly waxed board. WAXING MAKES A DIFFERENCE.
DUH.


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## RockSteady (Jan 14, 2013)

BlackSnow said:


> I hear graphite is suppose to be good for going fast. I've never played around with it, but is this true? Also does it go on like regular wax (iron on and scrape)?


Graphite is good stuff, its only in black so it just makes your board look all dirty if its not black but if you don't care its fast. Yeah you can put it on like normal.


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## cjcameron11 (Feb 5, 2011)

RockSteady said:


> From the start I said all the tech on a board is important but you guys wanted to discount wax and I think that's wrong.


Actually no you didn't, i just re-read over the posts and you said nothing of board tech until i brought it up, to which you replied that waxing has more of an effect on a boards speed than base tech.

Don't start changing your argument now. Fact is, your opinion is that wax makes more difference to a boards speed than its camber, base and edge tech. My opinion is that base tech, edge tech and camber play a larger role in board speed than waxing.

I think most people will agree that waxing makes a marginal difference, probably only importantly measurable when it comes to racing. And while many people can tell the difference between a freshly waxed board and a bone dry board i believe that the type of board and its footprint on the snow have a much more dramatic effect on its overall speed.


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## redlude97 (Jan 9, 2008)

Joe Coffee said:


> Are you serious? You go ride a board that hasn't been waxed in weeks and then compare that to a freshly waxed board. WAXING MAKES A DIFFERENCE.
> DUH.


Did you even read the thread? Of course waxing makes a difference, if we are talking about the exact same board waxed or unwaxed. But board base tech, profile, stiffness etc make a much more significant difference.


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## redlude97 (Jan 9, 2008)

RockSteady said:


> d
> 
> Dude remove all the wax from your board and go ride any thing other than super freezing crud or ice and see what happens. If it barely makes only a mili sec. difference, why do you even bother waxing. If you speak the truth I'm over waxing. When a base is bone dry not only it will not move on sticky pow. It will stop you cold over the handle bars:dunno:. A base is built to be used with wax. It's pores absorb wax. From the start I said all the tech on a board is important but you guys wanted to discount wax and I think that's wrong.
> 
> And your argument with the 150 waxed or 160 unwaxed, 150 all day on variable snow.. There are a lot of things that make the board fast but that lube called wax between the snow and the board, that's what makes it a rocket on almost any snow when done right.


Lets be clear here. No one discounted wax altogether. This is what started this whole argument


RockSteady said:


> cjcameron11 said:
> 
> 
> > Im tipping that the big difference between the custom x and hotknife is the magne traction and the camber profiles, they would have more of an impact on board speed than anything else.
> ...


You are stating that wax makes more of a difference than base type, camber profile, edge tech, stiffness, length etc.


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## RockSteady (Jan 14, 2013)

cjcameron11 said:


> Actually no you didn't, i just re-read over the posts and you said nothing of board tech until i brought it up, to which you replied that waxing has more of an effect on a boards speed than base tech.
> 
> Don't start changing your argument now. Fact is, your opinion is that wax makes more difference to a boards speed than its camber, base and edge tech. My opinion is that base tech, edge tech and camber play a larger role in board speed than waxing.
> 
> I think most people will agree that waxing makes a marginal difference, probably only importantly measurable when it comes to racing. And while many people can tell the difference between a freshly waxed board and a bone dry board i believe that the type of board and its footprint on the snow have a much more dramatic effect on its overall speed.


OK..lets go over this champ

me: "Most every higher end freestyle board like LIB snowboards have a good base that is very capable of high speeds but this is only one part of the problem."
-All I say is that wax is super important

You: "Im tipping that the big difference between the custom x and hotknife is the magne traction and the camber profiles, they would have more of an impact on board speed than anything else."

Me: "That does make a difference but not more than wax"

-you take this as me saying wax is more important than all this other stuff, I'm not trying to say anything is more important or less important. read it again buddy, I'm just saying that nothing is more important than the substance that makes it so your board can move quick in every condition...anything will move on ice, common sense. 
Now you go off arguing and claiming I think waxing is more important than size, structure and side cut...lol

You: "The amount of surface area in contact with the snow at a time most certainly does make more of a difference than the type or amount of wax used. "

Me: "Large or small a snowboard with a sweet wax job will fly. Take the Wax off a board or remove tires from a vehicle, no matter what the size it is, it will barely move.
This is why Snowboarder's and Skier's have what are called wax techs not board size techs. *Although I'm in no way saying surface area and size donesn't matter, I'm just saying nothing's moving with much speed on snow with out something to help break friction touching the the snow. *

BY THE WAY JUST TO MAKE THIS CLEAR, ICE AND MAN MADE FROZEN CRUD IN SUB ZERO CONDITIONS IS PACKED FROZEN WATER,THIS IS ONLY ONE OF MANY MANY MORE SNOW CONDITIONS


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## redlude97 (Jan 9, 2008)

RockSteady said:


> OK..lets go over this champ
> 
> me: "Most every higher end freestyle board like LIB snowboards have a good base that is very capable of high speeds but this is only one part of the problem."
> -All I say is that wax is super important
> ...


What is the change in the coefficient of friction for a waxed and unwaxed board then?


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## RockSteady (Jan 14, 2013)

redlude97 said:


> What is the change in the coefficient of friction for a waxed and unwaxed board then?


I don't know the answer to that but I can tell you it completely depends on the condition and is going to vary greatly based on the conditions. I can also tell you I've nose dived hard off of a booter first shot over the handle bars cause my board stuck to the snow. With out wax I'lll pick my board up and it will have a foot of snow stuck to it like Velcro. You get those wet hot sticky left over spring conditions, no wax= brakes, Wax= HorsePower


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## blunted_nose (Apr 26, 2012)

I didnt read everything BUT TBT is a god damn rocket for sure. The base acts as a ski with least amount of base touching the snow... That thing feels like it has a motor. Now i might not want to take it to super high speeds but TBT bases are the fastest from the camber and base concave...


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## RockSteady (Jan 14, 2013)

redlude97 said:


> What is the change in the coefficient of friction for a waxed and unwaxed board then?



A good example for you is a plastic sled-throw it down any ice, like anything else it's gonna fly like anything in some way flat would but take that plastic sled in untracked powder, wet pow, dry pow, warm wet, warm dry and that thing will have a lot of speed changes, there are so many variable conditions and there is a nice wax glide for all of them, I'm not talkin about just groomed ice.


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## RockSteady (Jan 14, 2013)

blunted_nose said:


> I didnt read everything BUT TBT is a god damn rocket for sure. The base acts as a ski with least amount of base touching the snow... That thing feels like it has a motor. Now i might not want to take it to super high speeds but TBT bases are the fastest from the camber and base concave...


This is hilarious as u are right due to the basically 3 deminsional shape of the TBT design there could be less surface area on snow, especially flat, which this would completely go against the guys argument for the TBT being so sweet cause surface area is so important...I give up...lol


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## RockSteady (Jan 14, 2013)

cjcameron11 said:


> Yeaahhhh no, thats not what i'm saying, poor analogy.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Racers use Narrow boards so they can go edge to edge lightning quick for fast turns. less width quicker trasitions.


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## redlude97 (Jan 9, 2008)

RockSteady said:


> A good example for you is a plastic sled-throw it down any ice, like anything else it's gonna fly like anything in some way flat would but take that plastic sled in untracked powder, wet pow, dry pow, warm wet, warm dry and that thing will have a lot of speed changes, there are so many variable conditions and there is a nice wax glide for all of them, I'm not talkin about just groomed ice.


This doesnt even make any sense. The sled will make it down most slopes even though it isn't waxed, regardless of the type of snow. So will a waxed or unwaxed snowboard, what is your point?


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## RockSteady (Jan 14, 2013)

redlude97 said:


> This doesnt even make any sense. The sled will make it down most slopes even though it isn't waxed, regardless of the type of snow. So will a waxed or unwaxed snowboard, what is your point?


That is my point is no they wont. Most slopes are not as steep as you think they are. There are a lot of snow conditions that will not even allow the plastic sled or the un waxed board to move as the wax helps melt the snow and create the glide to get you moving, an I've had really slow back country conditions where I couldn't get enough speed to hit anything, I throw a little turbo rub on wax and glide it back and forth on the snow for a minute and it's gliding light butter. If I went and grabbed a large surface that doesn't improve my glide.


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## RockSteady (Jan 14, 2013)

redlude97 said:


> This doesnt even make any sense. The sled will make it down most slopes even though it isn't waxed, regardless of the type of snow. So will a waxed or unwaxed snowboard, what is your point?


Look into cross country sking, they are mostly running flats, TINY thin narrow skis, their wax glide is everything. Anyway as far as all mountain speed goes most racing is done up on edge anyway. And we havnt even got into weight..lol


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## cjcameron11 (Feb 5, 2011)

RockSteady said:


> That is my point is no they wont. Most slopes are not as steep as you think they are. There are a lot of snow conditions that will not even allow the plastic sled or the un waxed board to move as the wax helps melt the snow and create the glide to get you moving


I give up, you need to make up your mind on what you're arguing. Fact is board shape and contact area has more to do with board speed than wax does. Period! And I'm out!


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## RockSteady (Jan 14, 2013)

cjcameron11 said:


> I give up, you need to make up your mind on what you're arguing. Fact is board shape and contact area has more to do with board speed than wax does. Period! And I'm out!


OK, thanks for playin buddy


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## redlude97 (Jan 9, 2008)

RockSteady said:


> Look into cross country sking, they are mostly running flats, TINY thin narrow skis, their wax glide is everything. Anyway as far as all mountain speed goes most racing is done up on edge anyway. And we havnt even got into weight..lol


WHY are their skis skinny and long then? That doesn't make more of a difference? Are you saying a pair of waxed powder skis would work better for cross country than nonwaxed cross country skis?


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## RockSteady (Jan 14, 2013)

redlude97 said:


> WHY are their skis skinny and long then? That doesn't make more of a difference? Are you saying a pair of waxed powder skis would work better for cross country than nonwaxed cross country skis?


No I'm saying it's a good example cause it clearly shows how important glide is. They use next to nothing for ski's to get l lighter weight and better stamina and depend soley on the wax glide for any solid momentum. Throw a steap hilll in with the right wax glide and rockets are engaged.


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## redlude97 (Jan 9, 2008)

RockSteady said:


> No I'm saying it's a good example cause it clearly shows how important glide is. They use next to nothing for ski's to get l lighter weight and better stamina and depend soley on the wax glide for any solid momentum. Throw a steap hilll in with the right wax glide and rockets are engaged.


I still don't get your point, we all are in agreement that wax helps. You stated that it is the most important thing and that all else is secondary, yet all your examples don't show this. Cross country skiing was done before wax and it still was relatively efficient....


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## RockSteady (Jan 14, 2013)

redlude97 said:


> I still don't get your point, we all are in agreement that wax helps. You stated that it is the most important thing and that all else is secondary, yet all your examples don't show this. Cross country skiing was done before wax and it still was relatively efficient....



Nah, learn how to read, your guys argument was that wax made a marginal difference compared to everything else you guys came up with. I can't fix hard headed ignorance all can do is tell you my board has hit the breaks to a dead stop in certain snow conditions but with the right wax I've been able to overcome this.


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## redlude97 (Jan 9, 2008)

RockSteady said:


> Nah, learn how to read, your guys argument was that wax made a marginal difference compared to everything else you guys came up with. I can't fix hard headed ignorance all can do is tell you my board has hit the breaks to a dead stop in certain snow conditions but with the right wax I've been able to overcome this.


Those conditions are the result of suction, a very specific condition that would actually cause this. You know what works better at breaking this suction? Base structure. A nice base grind pattern or even better a structurn pattern prevents this from happening. In the other 99% of conditions other aspects of the board make more of a difference. I'm going to finish by leaving a link to a previous thread with quite a few well respected members posting their opinions, as well as actual science
http://www.snowboardingforum.com/boards/49883-what-if-i-dont-wax.html


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## RockSteady (Jan 14, 2013)

redlude97 said:


> Those conditions are the result of suction, a very specific condition that would actually cause this. You know what works better at breaking this suction? Base structure. A nice base grind pattern or even better a structurn pattern prevents this from happening. In the other 99% of conditions other aspects of the board make more of a difference. I'm going to finish by leaving a link to a previous thread with quite a few well respected members posting their opinions, as well as actual science
> http://www.snowboardingforum.com/boards/49883-what-if-i-dont-wax.html


Cool man, You sold me, my life just got a hell of a lot easier, screw wax, had no idea it all taboo. Guess all the focus on wax, its all just and industry trick to make money. Damn, I need to spread the word that Wax only helps in the most select conditions and only makes the most marginal difference. This is big news. Thanks Bro. I'm gonna save a load of money and tons of work and time. Your the shit.


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## RockSteady (Jan 14, 2013)

redlude97 said:


> Those conditions are the result of suction, a very specific condition that would actually cause this. You know what works better at breaking this suction? Base structure. A nice base grind pattern or even better a structurn pattern prevents this from happening. In the other 99% of conditions other aspects of the board make more of a difference. I'm going to finish by leaving a link to a previous thread with quite a few well respected members posting their opinions, as well as actual science
> http://www.snowboardingforum.com/boards/49883-what-if-i-dont-wax.html


Its people like you and the other respected members you speak of making huge revelations like waxing is marginal at best and only good for a couple extra miles per hour, wow this is what is gonna keep me coming back. i You guys are gonna revolutionize the industry and re-write the rule books I can feel it.


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## redlude97 (Jan 9, 2008)

RockSteady said:


> Cool man, You sold me, my life just got a hell of a lot easier, screw wax, had no idea it all taboo. Guess all the focus on wax, its all just and industry trick to make money. Damn, I need to spread the word that Wax only helps in the most select conditions and only makes the most marginal difference. This is big news. Thanks Bro. I'm gonna save a load of money and tons of work and time. Your the shit.


Holey fuck are you really that obtuse? WAX MAKES A DIFFERENCE! Any unwaxed board is going to be slower than the same board that is waxed. Boards make more of a difference, which you seem to disagree on, even though you bring up race boards and only seeing a handful of brands. If wax was the holy grail, why doesn't a broski show up with skate banana, some race wax, and own everyone?


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## RockSteady (Jan 14, 2013)

redlude97 said:


> Holey fuck are you really that obtuse? WAX MAKES A DIFFERENCE! Any unwaxed board is going to be slower than the same board that is waxed. Boards make more of a difference, which you seem to disagree on, even though you bring up race boards and only seeing a handful of brands. If wax was the holy grail, why doesn't a broski show up with skate banana, some race wax, and own everyone?


Cause everyone has race wax, once the wax race is considered, then it comes down to the most talented or lucky racer. After Nate Holland wins a race he doesn't thank Kessler, most people don't even know he rides a Kessler. He gives all the props to his wax tech for providing him with the fastest board. Once again he doesn't thank Kessler for this.


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## marty264 (Dec 25, 2012)

I can't believe you guys are still going on about this.


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## Triple8Sol (Nov 24, 2008)

There is some full retard going on here. Wax is certainly a factor in speed, but how is it not understoos that it's only one of many factors involved---and not nearly the most important.

My NS Raptor 159 and T.Rice 161.5 were bloody fast, both of which would be faster than other boards I've owned such as a Bataleon Goliath 157 and Lib Skate Banana 159, regardless of what brand/temp/formulation of wax you put on each.


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## triumph.man (Feb 3, 2012)

seriously is this argument still going? Rock, you must be a youngen, b/c you are acting like a 4 year old, and need to just drop it.


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## liner (Jan 8, 2013)

RockSteady said:


> Cause everyone has race wax, *once the wax race is considered, then it comes down to the most talented or lucky racer.* After Nate Holland wins a race he doesn't thank Kessler, most people don't even know he rides a Kessler. *He gives all the props to his wax tech for providing him with the fastest board. *Once again he doesn't thank Kessler for this.


1) this is the reason you should keep your boards and skis in tip top condition all the time. If you screw up, you know it was you, not the board or wax. You dont perform good because of the wax or sharp edges. its because you can manipulate those enhancements without second guessing technique, to further your riding. 

2) hes name dropping his tech, not giving him the gold metal. He's saying, if I didnt have so-and-so doing a great CONSISTENT job of tuning my gear, Itd be much harder to self critique, and better his riding.

ending, 

you tune your gear so if you wash out, catch an edge, lose speed though that last turn, you know that you, the rider, is at fault, and its not maintenance issues on the board. that way you can go work on it and you know your fixing the issue at the fundamental level.

Ive ridden board upon board of shittily maintained gear. not waxed in 4 seasons, never sharpened etc, and i never once blame my bad riding on the board. your responsible for knowing how your board will react to certain conditions. proper tuning only makes it more consistent. 

If you really think you owe your riding to the wax and the stone, go back to the bunny hill and learn again.


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## RockSteady (Jan 14, 2013)

Triple8Sol said:


> There is some full retard going on here. Wax is certainly a factor in speed, but how is it not understoos that it's only one of many factors involved---and not nearly the most important.
> 
> My NS Raptor 159 and T.Rice 161.5 were bloody fast, both of which would be faster than other boards I've owned such as a Bataleon Goliath 157 and Lib Skate Banana 159, regardless of what brand/temp/formulation of wax you put on each.


s


haha you guys are the retards that jump on a thread 9 pages deep without barely reading it and start talking down like know it all gods...Get a grip on your ego's. U guys think u sound so cool and I'm sure your tough guy act works with the kids but you really sound like a couple of retards to everyone who knows anything. I'm sure everyone went 9 pages deep to read couple of snowboard gods like yourselves.


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## liner (Jan 8, 2013)

RockSteady said:


> s
> 
> 
> haha you guys are the retards that jump on a thread 9 pages deep without barely reading it and start talking down like know it all gods...Get a grip on your ego's. U guys think u sound so cool and I'm sure your tough guy act works with the kids but you really sound like a couple of retards to everyone who knows anything. I'm sure everyone went 9 pages deep to read couple of snowboard gods like yourselves.


I dont know who your referring to, but im the fastest snowboarder ever, anytime anywhere, Ill johnny tsunami your ass. Just lemme wax my board first.


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## triumph.man (Feb 3, 2012)

i see a troll


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## RockSteady (Jan 14, 2013)

liner said:


> I dont know who your referring to, but im the fastest snowboarder ever, anytime anywhere, Ill johnny tsunami your ass. Just lemme wax my board first.


:icon_scratch: 
was that an attempt at a joke?


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## CK93 (Dec 9, 2012)

LOL...Wow, did not expect all this when I asked the original question. Mainly what I was looking for was a board with faster material type base. I was told that different companies has faster bases than other, so I posted here to get your opinions. Got them I did! LOL

Anyway, what was happening to me was, I was cruzin down the hill then hit a flat spot, I would have to un strap and push myself. I would try the run again and get as fast as I could to see if I could gain enough speed to make it through the flat patch and I wasn't able. 

Or on the beginning of the runs where its a little flat, I would have to hop until the slope got steeper. I would see other boarders able to strap in and start to go down just fine. 

I wasn't looking for high tech arguments, just wanted to get insight on boards that had a little faster base to help guide my next purchase.

I just got my Hot Knife back with a sweet wax job on it. I think the issue I had was my wax was gone from riding on pure man made snow. But I will see if this theory is right next time I go up.

Don't get wrong, I learned some good stuff from this thread. Plus it was fun see the rivalry going on 

Cheers!


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## CK93 (Dec 9, 2012)

:dizzy: :yahoo:


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## RockSteady (Jan 14, 2013)

CK93 said:


> :dizzy: :yahoo:


was some fresh wax just what the Dr. ordered?


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## CK93 (Dec 9, 2012)

yes, the new wax definitely helped, but I also think getting more used to my board helped as well. 

I imagine all the man made stuff stripped off the wax pretty well. 

Heading out to SLC to hit some Utah snow now.


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## poutanen (Dec 22, 2011)

There are some long term members of this forum that NEVER wax their boards.

Number one factor in how fast a board will go? Rider.

Number two factor might be base structure before wax.

Number three factor would likely be clothing (aerodynamic or not) for a top speed test, or wax for a cat track test.

All in theory of course.


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## super-rad (Jan 25, 2012)

Just comparing the two boards I am currently riding, my Burton Process FV is faster than my Bataleon Jam.


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