# Was it my fault?



## Rob23 (Dec 4, 2013)

People coming from behind need to yield to the people in front of them. Just a general rule. Situations can vary though.


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## tradnwaves4snow (Nov 19, 2013)

Unkept Porpoise said:


> I was flying down the main run of louise and it was fairly busy


seems like a bit of a dick move here. I would never go flying down a main run on a busy day. busy day usually would mean many new skiers/boarders would be using it. chances are if you were going fast she would have never even seen you she shouldnt be expected to look uphill before making a turn. if you're coming fast from uphill you should have turned sooner to avoid the collision. so without seeing any video footage, from what you have described I would say its entirely your fault. but kudos for you stopping to say sorry and check she was ok.


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## jfergus7 (Dec 2, 2011)

Tough call but I would have to say you are at fault. Doesn't sound like a big deal and everyone was alright so that's all that matters.


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## RightCoastShred (Aug 26, 2012)

People in front have right of way


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## Unkept Porpoise (Aug 15, 2013)

RightCoastShred said:


> People in front have right of way


She was going in the opposite direction as where I was passing but turned when I was beside her. And I wasn't going that fast, poor choice of words I was going slightly faster than her and where we were on the slope there wasn't that many people. I'm not one to whiz by people within inches either. I know that people in front have the right of way but when I went to pass she was going the other way and only turned into me as I was passing her hence her colliding with the back of my board.


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## Mystery2many (Aug 14, 2013)

It was 100% your fault. And if you hurt her you would have been held liable. 

That's another reason I hate skiers so much. They are hard as hell to predict. They have no rhythm and will just out of now where dart in front of you. 

Now you know tho. :thumbsup:


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## Unkept Porpoise (Aug 15, 2013)

tradnwaves4snow said:


> if you're coming fast from uphill you should have turned sooner to avoid the collision.


The thing is though I didn't see her turning into me because I was even on the slope with her and I'm goofy so my back was to her. If I was on the other side and saw her turn into me I would have avoided her for sure but we were level when she turned in. That's why I'm a bit confused. If I was reckless and went too close and hit her from behind when she turned in then I would know I was at fault but what are the rules when you have given them plenty of room and are even with them and passing. I guess what the problem here is when does she become the person upslope from me and have to watch me?


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## Donutz (May 12, 2010)

I think you're confusing fault with responsibility. The person upslope is _responsible_ for avoiding the downhill person because the uphill person has a better view of the situation. It may have been her stupid skier move that caused the collision (her _fault_) but it's still your responsibility.


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## Unkept Porpoise (Aug 15, 2013)

Donutz said:


> I think you're confusing fault with responsibility. The person upslope is _responsible_ for avoiding the downhill person because the uphill person has a better view of the situation. It may have been her stupid skier move that caused the collision (her _fault_) but it's still your responsibility.


Yeah I agree with you on that. Pretty sure that's the only time I would say I was responsible for a collision so I just wanted to clarify here. Stupid skiers darting around though, it's so tough to predict what they are going to do.


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## BigmountainVMD (Oct 9, 2011)

I've had that same scenario happen a few times with a some close misses. You have to give them enough room, and then some, to avoid that random darting thing that new skiers like to do.

The only time I buzz anyone is if they are standing, motionless, near a nice powder hit, and I know the landing will be tracked out if I wait and have another go next ride down.


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## tradnwaves4snow (Nov 19, 2013)

Unkept Porpoise said:


> The thing is though I didn't see her turning into me because I was even on the slope with her and I'm goofy so my back was to her. If I was on the other side and saw her turn into me I would have avoided her for sure but we were level when she turned in.


even goofy with your back to her, your head should be facing downhill so you should be able to see people in your peripheral vision on your heel side. 

I find it very hard to believe you were level on the slope with her when you passed at a 10ft distance. if you were 'flying down hill' and she was cutting across the hill after a turn I dont see how she could have come so close to you as to run over the back of your board. 

but anyway I wouldnt dwell on it mate, it happened when? last season. seems you both came out ok. just a little lesson for you to be a little more cautious and keep your head up when you pass an unpredicable skier.


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## mojo maestro (Jan 6, 2009)

Yep.......your fault........the proper authorities have been notified.


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## CERBERUS.lucid (Oct 17, 2013)

You ride goofy so you are above the law  all must yeild to your shredding. LOL
On a serious note, just a learning experience for avoiding future probable accidents... Stay safe


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## Jes-Z (Oct 19, 2012)

Same thing happened to me 2 years ago. I was coming in from a traverse into a crowded area towards the bottom of the mountain. I had some decent speed going but I was able to see perfectly my trajectory. A Mother and daughter skiers were in front and decided to sweep across the connecting traverse never bothering to look over their shoulder, they just wanted to get to the side. As the mom basically cut me off and I tried to correct, her daughter (maybe 9-10yrs old) followed her lead and I crashed into her at a pretty decent speed. When I knew I was going to hit (no time to correct), I immediately hugged the child and flipped over her so I would take the force of the hit. I crashed face first into her helmet and when the cloud of snow settled, I was on my back and the child in my arms. She was more scared then anything else. She complained about her leg for about a minute but recovered when ski patrol showed up. When I finally turned around, my nose exploded and I was bleeding pretty bad. One of my buddies who was with me was an Anesthesiologist. He gave me a quick once over and after about 2-3 mins I decided to keep going. I apologized to the Mother. I also made the little girl laugh and she took off down the mountain like nothing had happened. One I cleaned up in the bathroom to get all the blood off my face and jacket, I decided to get back on the hill.

After about 30 mins, I pulled over from a run because my head started hurting quite a bit. Then I threw up! As a nurse, I knew that I was showing signs of a head injury of some kind. I went back down with my Doc friend and he did a full neuro check on me. :dizzy:

Turns out I had a mild concussion from the impact. So I called it a day and rested the afternoon.:blink:

The military in me wanted to keep going, but the rest was much needed. I had a headache for the next 3 days. Luckily it wasn't too bad like a cranial bleed.

Now I know when making transitions to be extra careful.

And yes, I broke my nose (I had 2 times before that day) so now my bridge has a little bit of Camrock. lol


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## t21 (Dec 29, 2010)

As everyone has mentioned about fault and responsibility, one thing I can add to this is call out what side you are passing by.yell either "left or right" prior to passing especially on cat tracks, also observe the person if he/she heard you by their actions of looking over to the side you called out. You would have no idea if the person has her headphones on or not so_* you*_ have to rely on that. Now if there is a kid up front, I'd say is just slow down and watch them and pass if possible.


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## ThunderChunky (Oct 1, 2011)

Maybe it's because I am at a small resort, but I never got running into people. If you can't avoid hitting people you shouldn't go that fast. I've never hit anyone besides my friends when we were screwing around. You shouldn't put yourself in a situation where you can't stop quick enough to avoid someone. Which is BS anyway. I can stop in 3 or 4 ft. going full speed. 

Give people room and you will always be good.


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## MarshallV82 (Apr 6, 2011)

Unkept Porpoise said:


> So thinking back on last season there was a collision I was involved with and pretty sure I'm at least partially to blame but was this my fault?
> 
> I was flying down the main run of louise and it was fairly busy, I was approaching a skier in front of me and lined her up for a routine pass. I passed by about ten Feet to her left give or take, and as I passed she turned into me and the front of her skis went on top of the back of my board and she slammed hard. Keep in mind she started turning into me when I was beside her. I felt I gave her enough room but obviously not. I apologized and she seemed uninjured but just wondering if this was my fault?


In the legal sense, yeah.. you are to blame. Much in the same way you are if one rear ends some dumbass that is driving 45 MPH on the freeway jumping lanes every 500 yards.

The person you hit is surely the common denominator in a multitude of collisions. She needs to change her riding habits to avoid future issues. Laws and right of ways don't matter if you're dead. I had to explain this to a girlfriend of mine who kept getting slammed into on busy days.


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## MarshallV82 (Apr 6, 2011)

t21 said:


> As everyone has mentioned about fault and responsibility, one thing I can add to this is call out what side you are passing by.yell either "left or right" prior to passing especially on cat tracks, also observe the person if he/she heard you by their actions of looking over to the side you called out. You would have no idea if the person has her headphones on or not so_* you*_ have to rely on that. Now if there is a kid up front, I'd say is just slow down and watch them and pass if possible.


If you do that to beginner skiers they look at you then aim for you. Just sweep wider, slow down or get off the fucking groomers!


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## mojo maestro (Jan 6, 2009)

ThunderChunky said:


> I can stop in 3 or 4 ft. going full speed.


I call bs..........unless of course, you're extremely slow.


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## t21 (Dec 29, 2010)

MarshallV82 said:


> If you do that to beginner skiers they look at you then aim for you. Just sweep wider, slow down or get off the fucking groomers!


As i mentioned on my post, you have to watch their actions on whether they heard you or not. Agreed,you can sweep wider if you have room to do it. getting off groomers is not feasible if i'm heading back down the lodge or calling it a day.
Slowing down is the best option not to hit anyone when the place is busy, then go to "ludicrous speed" when it opens up.


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## MarshallV82 (Apr 6, 2011)

t21 said:


> As i mentioned on my post, you have to watch their actions on whether they heard you or not. Agreed,you can sweep wider if you have room to do it. getting off groomers is not feasible if i'm heading back down the lodge or calling it a day.
> Slowing down is the best option not to hit anyone when the place is busy, then go to "ludicrous speed" when it opens up.


Agreed.

I just yelled "Left" on a busy cat track once like 7 years ago and the lady turned her head around on the catwalk and veered right into me. If I didn't say anything she would of just kept cruising and we both would of been upright! 

haha


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

t21 said:


> Now if there is a kid up front, I'd say is just slow down and watch them and pass if possible.


Awww... those kids, those mesmerizing paralyzing kids...


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## t21 (Dec 29, 2010)

MarshallV82 said:


> Agreed.
> 
> I just yelled "Left" on a busy cat track once like 7 years ago and the lady turned her head around on the catwalk and veered right into me. If I didn't say anything she would of just kept cruising and we both would of been upright!
> 
> haha


:laugh::laugh: you must have a nice deep voice cuz surely you attracted her and fell on your lap. I just hoped that it ended well for both of you and had drinks later:thumbsup:


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## Unkept Porpoise (Aug 15, 2013)

Nice groomers are very underrated


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## Magnum626 (Dec 31, 2009)

I've come behind skiers that were beginners and instead of just passing and yelling if I was going left or right, I would wait for them to initiate their turn first before I decide to pass in the opposite side. 

But even before that, I would just try to stay as far away from them as possible. You could be following someone who's making these small turns back and forth and the one time you decide to pass them is the one time they wanna go all the way across in front of you...:dunno: 

Murphy's Law I suppose...lol


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## poutanen (Dec 22, 2011)

Unkept Porpoise said:


> I passed by about ten Feet to her left give or take, and as I passed she turned into me and the front of her skis went on top of the back of my board and she slammed hard. Keep in mind she started turning into me when I was beside her.


According to the Alpine Responsibility Code for Lake Louise(no idea if the states has the same thing), you were at fault. The only time this wouldn't be true would be is somebody coming into the side of a run has to look upstream.

Just gotta give a wider berth next time. 



Rob23 said:


> People coming from behind need to yield to the people in front of them. Just a general rule. Situations can vary though.


Not really, 99% of the time the person coming from behind is at fault. 



tradnwaves4snow said:


> seems like a bit of a dick move here. I would never go flying down a main run on a busy day. busy day usually would mean many new skiers/boarders would be using it.


You ever boarded at Louise? The main run at the bottom of the hill is a few hundred feet wide. It also flattens out heavily. I frequently fly down this run, you just have to be on your toes when people are turning all over the place. He made a judgement error, not a dick move! :dunno:



Mystery2many said:


> It was 100% your fault. And if you hurt her you would have been held liable.


US law and Canadian law are a bit different... AFAIK there are very few ski resort law suits in Canada.



ThunderChunky said:


> I can stop in 3 or 4 ft. going full speed.


Your top speed is 10 mph?!? If you do the physics of it, from 40 mph your ideal stopping distance should be about 50 feet... (unless of course you can sustain massive g forces!)


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## Unkept Porpoise (Aug 15, 2013)

Yeah I'm willing to take responsibility, although she did run into me. You can't trust skiers to be able to look where they are going. (Keep in mind she had time to turn away but didn't)


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## dreampow (Sep 26, 2011)

You were behind her = the collision was your fault.

Some people are not predictable others are just bad riders/skiers but its up to you to be 100% sure you can get past safely or just hit the brakes.

The margin that you thought was OK wasn't so just leave a bigger space or don't go past in the future.


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## Unkept Porpoise (Aug 15, 2013)

dreampow said:


> You were behind her = the collision was your fault


 well actually I was in front at the time of the collision.


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## mojo maestro (Jan 6, 2009)

QFT.......you asked......we told you.......lesson learned. Consider yourself lucky nobody was seriously hurt.


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## Bones (Feb 24, 2008)

Unkept Porpoise said:


> well actually I was in front at the time of the collision.


Yeah, but you came from behind.

Realistic or not, the law is always going to land of the side of safety. Any judge is going to ask why you didn't just slow down and stay behind her all the way to the bottom or until she pulled over to the side. 

Same deal as passing a car going 20 under the speed limit. The option to stay behind them and not pass is always there (as annoying as it may be) If you choose to pass and anything ends up happening, your decision is measured/compared against that option.


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## SnowDogWax (Nov 8, 2013)

Like talking to a Rock!


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## Unkept Porpoise (Aug 15, 2013)

SnowDogWax said:


> Like talking to a Rock!


 ..........


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## Outlander (Nov 28, 2011)

Mystery2many said:


> That's another reason I hate skiers so much. They are hard as hell to predict. They have no rhythm and will just out of now where dart in front of you.


To be fair, this does not just pertain to skiers. Plenty of snowboarders make very unpredictable moves at the last second. Another thing to consider too is the different movement dynamics between the two sports. Very often snowboarders without a few years under their belt do not understand skiers` movements and skiers without some experience around snowboarders don't understand snowboarding movements. Both sports have unique blind spots that may not be apparent to the other. This is one reason that I personally think it is a valuable asset for skiers to spend a few days on a board and for snowboarders to try skis. It makes both more aware and understanding of each other.


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## Outlander (Nov 28, 2011)

Unkept Porpoise said:


> So thinking back on last season there was a collision I was involved with and pretty sure I'm at least partially to blame but was this my fault?
> 
> I was flying down the main run of louise and it was fairly busy, I was approaching a skier in front of me and lined her up for a routine pass. I passed by about ten Feet to her left give or take, and as I passed she turned into me and the front of her skis went on top of the back of my board and she slammed hard. Keep in mind she started turning into me when I was beside her. I felt I gave her enough room but obviously not. I apologized and she seemed uninjured but just wondering if this was my fault?





Unkept Porpoise said:


> She was going in the opposite direction as where I was passing but turned when I was beside her. And I wasn't going that fast, poor choice of words I was going slightly faster than her and where we were on the slope there wasn't that many people. I'm not one to whiz by people within inches either. I know that people in front have the right of way but when I went to pass she was going the other way and only turned into me as I was passing her hence her colliding with the back of my board.





Unkept Porpoise said:


> The thing is though I didn't see her turning into me because I was even on the slope with her and I'm goofy so my back was to her. If I was on the other side and saw her turn into me I would have avoided her for sure but we were level when she turned in. That's why I'm a bit confused. If I was reckless and went too close and hit her from behind when she turned in then I would know I was at fault but what are the rules when you have given them plenty of room and are even with them and passing. I guess what the problem here is when does she become the person upslope from me and have to watch me?


At the end of the day, regardless of any of these contributing factors, the overtaking rider has the responsibility to avoid the collision. Its called riding defensively and always being ready to expect the unexpected and having an out. No one here is beating you up over this as shit happens but you asked for honest opinions.

Some things to think about in the future to help avoid collisions are to watch the person you are overtaking a little more closely and sooner to get a feel for their ability level. Always have in the back of your mind the "what if" question and try to allow extra room for that "just in case" moment when they do this. Judge your speed and theirs and you can kind of gauge timing and spacing a little better. Also, while you can't totally rely on it, call out to the person and let them know you are overtaking "On your right!" or "On your left". Its just another level of precaution that may help (certainly wont hurt).

Fortunately most collisions like this don`t result in injury and your best insurance against civil or God forbid criminal charges for a serious injury is to simply reduce your speed. Its the speed involved that makes a collision a serious event.

Don`t stress about this incident, learn from it and move on; I think we have all been there at one time or another....


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## tanscrazydaisy (Mar 11, 2013)

Yes, you're at fault. 

Also a courtesy yell where which side you're passing also helps especially on greens, provided that the skier isn't wearing headphones and listening to music


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## Mystery2many (Aug 14, 2013)

Outlander said:


> To be fair, this does not just pertain to skiers. Plenty of snowboarders make very unpredictable moves at the last second. Another thing to consider too is the different movement dynamics between the two sports. Very often snowboarders without a few years under their belt do not understand skiers` movements and skiers without some experience around snowboarders don't understand snowboarding movements. Both sports have unique blind spots that may not be apparent to the other. This is one reason that I personally think it is a valuable asset for skiers to spend a few days on a board and for snowboarders to try skis. It makes both more aware and understanding of each other.


#1 I will never ski, I'm just not gonna do it. I will split board but never ski. #2 I have never crashed into anyone (board or ski). 

80% of skiers I see just skip and bounce all over the place with no care for coming traffic. They have their legs together like a woman on a horse and no rythym or style. NO STYLE!!!!!!!! A person strapped to a single board is much easier to predict no matter the skill level. When they go right you know they will have to carve left and vise versa. If they are new they usually catch an edge. But boarders do not just skip around carelessly with no rythym, we can't just dart around because we either striaght line or carve or fall. 

Even the best skiers in the would still look stupid to me! But that's me.

:RantExplode: Ok I'm better now. lol


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## dreampow (Sep 26, 2011)

Unkept Porpoise said:


> well actually I was in front at the time of the collision.


The time of the collision is irrelevant in this case, you did the overtaking, you came from behind which she was blind to.

100% your responsibility to ensure there is no contact. Sorry but thats just how it is.

No one was hurt so all is well, but lets all be careful this year myself included.


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## MarshallV82 (Apr 6, 2011)

Mystery2many said:


> #1 I will never ski, I'm just not gonna do it. I will split board but never ski. #2 I have never crashed into anyone (board or ski).
> 
> 80% of skiers I see just skip and bounce all over the place with no care for coming traffic. They have their legs together like a woman on a horse and no rythym or style. NO STYLE!!!!!!!! A person strapped to a single board is much easier to predict no matter the skill level. When they go right you know they will have to carve left and vise versa. If they are new they usually catch an edge. But boarders do not just skip around carelessly with no rythym, we can't just dart around because we either striaght line or carve or fall.
> 
> ...


I feel like I was a pretty stylish skier back in the day. I killed it. Most skiers suck because that's what is easier to learn so you can see the whole mountain on vacation without a sore tailbone. 

There are quite a few terrible boarders that can't steer away from what they're staring at. They are like slow motion missiles. For the most part, good skiers and boarders go down the fall line and stay the fuck out of the way!


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## thelin1 (Oct 3, 2013)

*Yeah*

Your fault, she had no clue, awesome gesture to stop and check on them
The person in front has the right of way because you have the vantage point 
Next time, indicate with your voice, not always, duh, but in time times of sketch
Call, 'left' 'right' or just do a stoked out 'woo!!!' They'll understand the call 
Indicate and telegraph bro. Nothing to worry about, all is well though.
If you would have dipped and she got hurt, that would be bad, so speak up!
Swing wide of people several yards of them, don't come close, time it 
Tight run? Time it, like hitting green lights on a hill, line it up! But still speak up.


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## thelin1 (Oct 3, 2013)

*Yeah*

Thought I would answer your question and make a constructive post/tip to try and see if it (yelling at people and scaring them from behind) works for you, the logistics of the situation and relationship of your board vs skis is irrelevant to me


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## snowklinger (Aug 30, 2011)

I rode with a bunch of skiers today, I often do, they are all lifetime experts for the most part. One of the guys was saying how he doesn't wear headphones because he likes to be able to hear "you snowboarders coming up from behind" to which I replied "GOOD, cuz I know you MOTHERFUCKERS aint fucken lookin!"

Tom is a rad dude to be fair, it was friendly banter.


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## SnowRock (Feb 28, 2011)

One thing that kills me with the "code" is how everyone ignores the rest of it. Just this weekend I came up on a group stopped who started off headed directly towards my line. No one looked uphill at all. It wasn't a super close call but easily could have been. 

I'm usually a pretty straight down the fall line type of rider but I will give a look over my shoulder if I am about to traverse to the other side of the trail. I try to never stop in shitty areas and I always look uphill before starting out.


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## Unkept Porpoise (Aug 15, 2013)

SnowRock said:


> One thing that kills me with the "code" is how everyone ignores the rest of it. Just this weekend I came up on a group stopped who started off headed directly towards my line. No one looked uphill at all. It wasn't a super close call but easily could have been.
> 
> I'm usually a pretty straight down the fall line type of rider but I will give a look over my shoulder if I am about to traverse to the other side of the trail. I try to never stop in shitty areas and I always look uphill before starting out.


People stopping just over a ridge in the middle of a run are the worst. I don't mind people stopping wherever but if it's a high traffic area then don't stop in blind spots.


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## baldylox (Dec 27, 2007)

Unkept Porpoise said:


> People stopping just over a ridge in the middle of a run are the worst. I don't mind people stopping wherever but if it's a high traffic area then don't stop in blind spots.


If people stopping in blind spots throws you off, you're not riding in control. What if it was a giant pit of angry sharks with lasers on their heads instead of a noob sitting in the blind spot? What if it's someone laying there unconscious? You should never be riding so fast that you can't stop in the terrain that you can see. I personally don't stop after a rise, because I don't want some fucktard's board wedged up my ass, but that doesn't mean it would be my fault if you hit me while I was stopped.


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## Unkept Porpoise (Aug 15, 2013)

cifex said:


> If people stopping in blind spots throws you off, you're not riding in control. What if it was a giant pit of angry sharks with lasers on their heads instead of a noob sitting in the blind spot? You should never be riding so fast that you can't stop in the terrain that you can see.


I'm not riding so fast I can't stop, but I'd rather not have people stopping in dangerous places on a run. I make sure to slow down in places I can't see but even so it's still dangerous, many people don't.


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## j.gnar (Sep 4, 2009)

always gotta be careful around skiers, they take 1/2 a mile to make their fuckin turns so you can never really get comfortable around them


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## firstx1017 (Jan 10, 2011)

Here's a guy who crashed into me that we got on video. I was the only one on the mountain and he came out of nowhere and ran into me. Posted this before and had numerous replies as to who was at fault........

CRASHES - YouTube


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## BoardWalk (Mar 22, 2011)

firstx1017 said:


> Here's a guy who crashed into me that we got on video. I was the only one on the mountain and he came out of nowhere and ran into me. Posted this before and had numerous replies as to who was at fault........
> 
> CRASHES - YouTube


The only explanation for that is you have your own gravitational pull. Have you thought about changing your axis?


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## firstx1017 (Jan 10, 2011)

BoardWalk said:


> The only explanation for that is you have your own gravitational pull. Have you thought about changing your axis?


My husband's been saying that for years! lol


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## seriouscat (Jan 23, 2012)

baldylox said:


> If people stopping in blind spots throws you off, you're not riding in control. * What if it was a giant pit of angry sharks with lasers on their heads instead of a noob sitting in the blind spot? *What if it's someone laying there unconscious? You should never be riding so fast that you can't stop in the terrain that you can see. I personally don't stop after a rise, because I don't want some fucktard's board wedged up my ass, but that doesn't mean it would be my fault if you hit me while I was stopped.


Would like to see this. It would be worth it even if I die. mg:


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## Unkept Porpoise (Aug 15, 2013)

firstx1017 said:


> Here's a guy who crashed into me that we got on video. I was the only one on the mountain and he came out of nowhere and ran into me. Posted this before and had numerous replies as to who was at fault........
> 
> CRASHES - YouTube


Looks like you both saw it coming but instead of moving just accepted that the collision was going to happen and let it haha


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## a4h Saint (Jan 24, 2013)

BoardWalk said:


> The only explanation for that is you have your own gravitational pull. Have you thought about changing your axis?


LOL! 10char


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