# Tips for improvement



## f00bar (Mar 6, 2014)

Practice your toe side. Nothing wrong with taking it easy on something you think is steep and aren't ready for, but you don't want to leaf it, toe to heel, repeat. With practice you'll start to straighten it out a bit longer. 

Speed is just one aspect of the sport. The first one down the hill isn't necessarily the best.

As for the flat basing you already found out why most people stay on an edge by default. That doesn't mean flat basing isn't important, it's a skill you should learn as it helps with getting off the lift and when you need to get the most of a long flat cat track.


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## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

BeginnerBoard said:


> What can I do to get my confidence back and practise turns on what for me feels like a steep angle*
> 
> * I know 45° isn't that steep :grin: but I'm getting there!


45 degrees is steeper than most folks think

find the creepy basement vid


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## freshy (Nov 18, 2009)

BeginnerBoard said:


> The point being, the guys I was with said I shouldn't ever be flat that's why I caught an edge and stacked. I should have always be on an edge which goes against my instructor who told me edge for turns, flat down the mountain for max speed or flat across mountain to build up speed controlled. Just a bit confused there.
> 
> What can I do to get my confidence back and practise turns on what for me feels like a steep angle*!


They are both kinda right, well your instructor is right. Flatbasing is not that easy for a beginner so avoiding it for now is advisable. If you ever find your self on a super long almost flat cat track you'll find small carves to stay on an edge can scub precious speed, eventually you'll naturally get the feel for keeping flat with practice.

As for getting your confidence back: practice, practice and practice.


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## SGboarder (Jun 24, 2012)

BeginnerBoard said:


> * I know 45° isn't that steep :grin: but I'm getting there!


Not sure if you're trolling, but 45° is very steep (that is a 100% slope). Most black runs top out at 25-35° and past 35° you're well into double black/expert territory.

May be you're thinking 45% (which is more like 20° would be a steep-ish blue run).


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## BeginnerBoard (Aug 26, 2018)

SGboarder said:


> Not sure if you're trolling, but 45° is very steep (that is a 100% slope). Most black runs top out at 25-35° and past 35° you're well into double black/expert territory.
> 
> May be you're thinking 45% (which is more like 20° would be a steep-ish blue run).


Thanks f00bar wrathfuldeity freshy much appreciated your input.

Not trolling at all. That is me eye balling it. The run in is the image attached. The purple section is the shallowest and the lower you go down it steepens. The yellow line is a ski racing run if that gives you a guide. I didn't get a photo of the side profile, so I drew a rough triangle in the corner to show it haha


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## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

BeginnerBoard said:


> Thanks f00bar wrathfuldeity freshy much appreciated your input.
> 
> Not trolling at all. That is me eye balling it. The run in is the image attached. The purple section is the shallowest and the lower you go down it steepens. The yellow line is a ski racing run if that gives you a guide. I didn't get a photo of the side profile, so I drew a rough triangle in the corner to show it haha


your pic...estimate at 30 degrees

this might give you some perspective


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## CauseNAffect (Feb 1, 2016)

Everyone here had to learn the same way you did. What you're experiencing is normal and you have only ridden here and there on family trips the past few years. You're at the beginning.

Keep getting more comfortable edge to edge. Try not to ride washing your snowboard out where you're just sliding in a direction giving gentle edge grabs to catch yourself or slow yourself, ever. Always be turning - Your edges are your control. Even when I'm basing I'm still giving gentle pressure between toe and heel, I'm never dead flat. Watch youtube videos on proper form to get the image in your head of what good edge control looks like. 

And ride more. Your not going to learn much if you just go here and there.


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

BeginnerBoard said:


> Thanks f00bar wrathfuldeity freshy much appreciated your input.
> 
> Not trolling at all. That is me eye balling it. The run in is the image attached. The purple section is the shallowest and the lower you go down it steepens. The yellow line is a ski racing run if that gives you a guide. I didn't get a photo of the side profile, so I drew a rough triangle in the corner to show it haha


Naw... your eyes get tricked. One overestimates the ° of a run as ones feel for danger chimes in (like, if in a car, even low angle like 12° _feels_ very steep).

Also... looking straight at a run tricks ones eyes tremendously. Like this one vvv looks pretty vertical, right? But if one woul see it sideways, you'd see it's "only" ~50°, which is scary as hell.


















^ that's about 45-50° something. One can touch the uphil slope standing. Standing on top if such a run, looking down, ur eyes/brain scream _vertical_. 

Our perception is heavily biased by scare


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## f00bar (Mar 6, 2014)

neni said:


> Our perception is heavily biased by scare


Yup, slant perception is actually kind of trippy in the sense of what is reality. To some extent it's a defense mechanism. You can walk up a hill no problem and then turn around and say to yourself, woah that looks steep. It's your smarter unconscious brain telling your dumber free will brain not to go blow a knee out running down a hill you just ran up.


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## Rip154 (Sep 23, 2017)

Many of the mountain rescues are because people climb up something they cant handle going down, but weather is often the official reason.


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## SGboarder (Jun 24, 2012)

BeginnerBoard said:


> Thanks f00bar wrathfuldeity freshy much appreciated your input.
> 
> Not trolling at all. That is me eye balling it. The run in is the image attached. The purple section is the shallowest and the lower you go down it steepens. The yellow line is a ski racing run if that gives you a guide. I didn't get a photo of the side profile, so I drew a rough triangle in the corner to show it haha


That looks like may be 20°, definitely less than 25°.


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

BeginnerBoard said:


> The point being, the guys I was with said I shouldn't ever be flat that's why I caught an edge and stacked. I should have always be on an edge which goes against my instructor who told me edge for turns, flat down the mountain for max speed or flat across mountain to build up speed controlled. Just a bit confused there.


Hmmmm... depends a bit on the board profile and ability who'sright. On a rocker in the middle board, yes, you can go flat from early on. But if you have a camber board, then going flat at beginner stage is a good way to catch edges badly.

If you don't have one already, you may want to get a CRC profile board. It's almost impossible to catch edges with them.

Since you are afraid of falls, your legs are probably very stiff and you lean onto back foot. This just increases likelyhood for falls. It'll take time to get back confidence after an injury. 
Loosen your legs, bend your knees, breathe n smile, watch Wrathfuldeity's creepy basement video, get lessons, gain confidence, and you soon get over your fear.

But most importantly: ride more days a season. Snowboarding is a sport. One has to exercise... it takes hundreds of repetitions until muscle memory builds up and edge control becomes second skin. (Took me about 300 days of riding until I felt ready to dive into 45° runs )


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## BeginnerBoard (Aug 26, 2018)

neni said:


> Hmmmm... depends a bit on the board profile and ability who'sright. On a rocker in the middle board, yes, you can go flat from early on. But if you have a camber board, then going flat at beginner stage is a good way to catch edges badly.
> 
> If you don't have one already, you may want to get a CRC profile board. It's almost impossible to catch edges with them.
> 
> ...


Here's a YouTube video of my efforts. I cannot post a link though. watch?v=PErzWYxvZoY

In terms of board, I am not sure of the profile but it is a Burton Amplifier 154 with Bent Metal Logic bindings


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## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

BeginnerBoard said:


> Here's a YouTube video of my efforts. I cannot post a link though. watch?v=PErzWYxvZoY
> 
> In terms of board, I am not sure of the profile but it is a Burton Amplifier 154 with Bent Metal Logic bindings


here ya go





typical advancing beginner/intermediate...bendz da kneez, hump & dump and know dis


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## BeginnerBoard (Aug 26, 2018)

wrathfuldeity said:


> here ya go


Thanks wrathfuldeity

Sorry about sketchy audio folks


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## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

^^just edited...watch the 2nd vid


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

BeginnerBoard said:


> Here's a YouTube video of my efforts. I cannot post a link though. watch?v=PErzWYxvZoY
> 
> In terms of board, I am not sure of the profile but it is a Burton Amplifier 154 with Bent Metal Logic bindings


Yeah... I can see why you're catching edges even on that board which, with its flat top, should be pretty catch free. You're basically passively slipping around flat based. Don't. 

With zero edge feel yet, that's a dangerous thing to do all the time all over the slope. It may have been ok on a well groomed bunny hill - where your instructor may have told you to do so that way to get the first feel for the sliding sensation, but now you should begin to use your edges as you go to other runs. Try to do turns from edge to edge with a transition inbetween. Get another lesson; one is never enough


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## Manicmouse (Apr 7, 2014)

Neni’s photos win a thread again!

You’re stiff as a... board... in that vid. You’re not even slightly using your edges so no wonder you end catching an edge as you flat base across the slope. Bend your knees so you feel like you’re squatting when riding. Adjust the high backs so they have a forward lean, that helps force this.

Not a lost cause at all! Bend those knees and you’ll progress well.


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