# Black Diamonds, Progression, and Binding Angles



## artemis (Feb 1, 2011)

It's just about the end of my first season snowboarding. I've got all my own gear now, and I've progressed to the point where im just starting blacks and some park. I'm riding with a 12/-9 binding angle right now, but I feel its really hard to initiate my turns on the steeper blacks, would a change in binding angles help that? I lean forward , and keep my knees bent while riding but I still find it a challenge to initiate the turns. I dont have a problem on less steep terrain.


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## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

idk about park, but blacks and steeps...its not your binding angles...its your balls. Initiate the turn, commit and compress.


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## Edp25 (Dec 27, 2010)

As I progressed to steeps, I did adjust my angles, especially the rear. At the tine, I felt that 15 front and 8 or 9 back really helped my turn initiation. It felt smoother, easier and quicker to me. Good luck!


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## BliND KiNK (Feb 22, 2010)

No matter how steep, same principle applies.. weight on the front foot to initiate turns and just make harder turns and control your speed, literally all it comes down to is... not getting on your back foot and that's like someone above me posted... you gotta cough out those cajones.

but if you get worried remember that doing a full stop and catching your breath is an option most of the time.... but when you are on the blacks the point is speed with expert edge control, so if you aren't comfortable on the black maybe you should go to more beginner friendly ones, it may not be the run for you, yet.


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## earl_je (Oct 20, 2009)

I'm at 18°/-15° and can still bomb blacks...


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## Edp25 (Dec 27, 2010)

Hi Guys, it's all good. Artemis was just asking if stance angles might help him progress. For me they did. Of course, at the time I was progressing to steeps, I was also working on carving technique and doing more free riding than anything else so the forward angles made sense. Never intended anything as absolute. Thx!


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## baconzoo (Nov 12, 2010)

Try +21/+9 just to find the boundary, reel is back to where you were, and find Your sweet spot.


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## artemis (Feb 1, 2011)

Snowolf said:


> With just one year riding and the fact that you are able to initiate turns just fine on mellower terrain, I would say this is not an equipment issue. Riding steeps takes work and progression just like any other maneuver in snowboarding. You are pushing your envelope and as a result, you will face challenges. If your stance angles are comfortable and work well in all of your riding but steeps, don`t go changing things. Keep working with what you have and it will come. By changing your setup, you adding another variable into the mix....stick it out and deal with it, we all went through this when we first started riding steeps. You are doing just fine....:thumbsup:
> 
> As a tip for steeps, two things will help you most of all. The first is tons of flexion to initiate the turn. Get down as low to that board as you can. If you are riding the steeps correctly, your quads will be burning bad from the flexing down low. Second, start using good fore-aft movements in your turn. Start out with your weight forward and as the board turns up out of the fall line, shift your weight aft to complete the turn.


Thanks Snowolf! I dont post here often, but I've been lurking for a while, and your posts have always helped me dramatically!
I think you may be right about me just having to get more accustom to riding steeps. I think I have to build up those muscles more too. My legs burn and tremble a lot after I finish a long steep run, usually leaving my thighs and calves burning and exhausted.
Also last weekend it was very warm in PA where I usually ride. The snow was all slushy and choppy, making it even more tolling to ride. Mini-Moguls everywhere, it felt ungroomed even though I was riding at the start of the day. Is there anyway to ride conditions like that without completely wearing yourself out? I haven't had a chance to ride on a nice groomed black yet since I just started on steeps and its almost the end of the season. I might drive up to Vermont this weekend, the conditions are supposed to be good there for a bit longer.

Thanks again,
Artemis


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## artemis (Feb 1, 2011)

Snowolf said:


> Sorry, no real secret tricks to make your work easier. Its all about conditioning yourself. Take frequent breaks on the way down before you get exhausted; that way you can recover faster and keep going. When it comes to bumpy, choppy and downright nasty crud, get loose. the more "noodly" you let your legs be as you ride over this stuff, the more control you will have. As an example, everyone has experienced the dreaded heelside chatter coming out of a turn on off piste.
> 
> You know, the "kachunka, chunka, chunka, chunka"...deathslide of doom until you slide 50 feet down the hill on your ass.....:laugh: As soon as you feel this chatter start, totally go limp in the legs and absorb the chatter. Natural reaction is to stiffen and push against it which makes things worse. By loosening up, you prevent the board (and you along with it) from getting bounced off of the snow. Instead, you keep the board in contact with the snow where you at least have a chance to regain edge hold. In addition, when this happens, point the board a little more down hill to relieve the edge stress; this will often eliminate the chatter.
> 
> The way to look at riding over rough, steep terrain in an analogy that I find helpful. Imagine a really nasty washboard gravel road. Two vehicles hauling ass down the road; one a 3/4 ton pickup truck with ultra stiff suspension and the other a great big boat of a Cadillac with very squishy suspension. Ask which one is going to have the better ride and also stay on the road, not get bounced off of it. Ride your board "Cadillac style".....


Haha, awesome. Thanks again for the awesome tips man!
One more question though. I was on a double black(more like a black, if that, out west) in Camelback,PA pushing myself. I did this run a few times and whenever I fell, I would fall on my ass or stomach and keep sliding down the mountain out of control. I tried to dig my board into the snow to stop myself, and ended up tumbling down the last 1/4 of the run, got a bit banged up but nothing serious. So my question is, how do you get up when you fall on steep runs like that. On the normal blacks I usually slide a bit, but I can pick myself up still.


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