# Questions/thoughts



## NoirX252 (Aug 1, 2009)

Should I switch from a 21/-15 duck stance to forward stance? I feel safer with my shoulders slightly opened towards where I want to go when freeriding rather than duck stance. (it's more comfortable if I ride countered going straight with duck)

What are your views on shoulder rotation? I've been playing around with my technique lately, and for steeper runs, I feel using shoulder rotation to aid in my turns helps my carving immensely. I'm experimenting with the EC (extreme carving) push-pull technique.

For one, I don't worry about falling on my ass at all when switching from a toe to heel carve.


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## redlude97 (Jan 9, 2008)

do you ride switch at all?


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## NoirX252 (Aug 1, 2009)

Snowolf said:


> Some shoulder rotation is okay, but it should be very limited. Too much of this causes pivoting of the board which can expose the rider to increased edge catch danger. Regardless if you are ducked out, wide stanced park rat or a spandex wearing hard boot Euro carver, turn initiation, control and completion should be done with edging and board tilt, not rotation.
> 
> If you are wanting a forward stance, it is better to have your entire body aligned than it is to twist at the waist to face forward. This twist creates pivot as stated. Regardless how a rider rides, their entire body should be relatively lined up and shoulders need to remain generally perpendicular to their feet.......:thumbsup:


Some clarification, (didn't have time, home with limited computer access!)

I meant I wanted a forward stance as I've noticed, your shoulders naturally open up a bit so they aren't perfectly aligned with the board but still not "twisting at the waist", right?


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## NoirX252 (Aug 1, 2009)

Got it, thanks snowolf.

I don't plan to really ride switch much if at all, I think.

Should I be aiming to completely eliminate shoulder rotaton? 

When I'm doing wide carves on blue/black runs, leading with as light hip (shoulder) rotation or not, I flex my kness and start edging/pushing into the snow. The problem is when I'm perpendicular to the fall line, I fear catching an edge with my back or face. Only in a carve do I experience this fear as you have to wait a "moment" so to speak as the sidecut does it work without rushing the turn somewhat and going into a skidded turn. (Ok, i'll be honest, half the time they are scarves, I tend to skid a bit at the apex at times, but the skid mark when looking back up is around like a foot wide or so.. 2 feet blah, then goes back to a pencil thin line, I'm basically purely using turn shape to control my speed right now as I try to get carving down solid)

I feel the slight hip/shoudler movement alleviates this fear totally (i'm not going wee shoulder please turn the board, I'm stll edging, flexing/extending, angulating) + it lines up with what people who use the extreme carving style do.

I might go back to not rotating the shoulders, I've in general been experimenting around a ton with my riding.

YouTube - Stoked - Extreme Carving
2:35 of this video shows him even in what would normally be a series of quiet upper body cross under turns to be just a serioes of turns with the upper body rotating in?


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## jlm1976 (Feb 26, 2009)

*shoulder rotation*

I wouldn't strive to eliminate shoulder rotation. In upper level riding, the only time your upper body should be alined with the snowboard is when changing edges...other than that the upper body should be used to amplify lower body movements and what you are making the board do in all turns. 

For big GS dynamic carves, after changing edges, my shoulders and hips are rotated to the inside of the turn ahead of the snowboard. I don't move them enough to pivot the board, but I am definitely out of alignment and they are helping to drive the turn.

A great excercise for getting over that fear of catching an edge when the board is across the fall line is to make GS turns with a carved traverse between each turn, basically ride your uphill edge across the trail before dropping into your next turn. 
After a run of that, do the same thing but ride a flat board across the trail between carves. Flatten the board by moving your body downhill, just enough to flatten the board out. This will be really sketchy at first but once your comfortable with it, it will make all the difference in the world. 
For a real challenge, once the board is flat, use your ankles to roll the board onto the downhill edge..then uphill edge and then make your next turn. 

Also, remember that the alpine guys are riding with their bindings at 60+degrees so they typically look like they are rotated perpendicular to the board but are really in line with their bindings. They used to rotate their shoulders perpendicular to the board so their back hand was in a better position to knock the gate out of the way like in ski racing. 
Good luck!


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## NoirX252 (Aug 1, 2009)

Thanks for your input jlm

"For a real challenge, once the board is flat, use your ankles to roll the board onto the downhill edge..then uphill edge and then make your next turn." --> You mean the triple turn practice they show on bomber right?

and about the alpine guys and their shoulder stance, yeah I noticed that. part of the reason why I want to try a forward stance, it feels more comfortable to me to actually face more to where I am going.


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## jlm1976 (Feb 26, 2009)

Yup it's the same exercise...but start with the first two and work up to doing the triple edge change. The first two will set you up for the third. 

Snowolf, I totally agree. I avoid getting into upperbody rotation until the lowerbody is all set.


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## Guest (Jan 7, 2010)

I ride regular 21/-5 and it works good for me. i did duck for a while. And found this easier even riding switch. Idk maybe its cause its the stance i use longboarding. It works for me goin fakie


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## NoirX252 (Aug 1, 2009)

I cannot wait to get out there and carve!

A couple of things I've noticed, using a cross under movement (um, I think this is called cross-through? I still flex my knees as I switch edges but I am making generally bigger turns than quick s's) is really useful for steep runs. Actually it's the only way I know how to keep my speed down without skidding to control speed. (by going up hill a bit on some s's) and if I feel like speeding up a bit, I start doing the quick s turns.

Is there any way possible to do the quick S turns and maintain speed? or am I always going to rocket down? i do notice there is some degree of speed control to the quick s turns (not a full complete C turn), but just not enough.

Especially if I try to keep a more quiet upper body, AASI style? cross under carve, if I try to carve anywhere near a complete C, it's near impossible, I'm twisted to the max counter-rotated while loooking at the fall line.

just wondering if i ever find myself on a really busy slope or very very narrow run.

I am thinking maybe in these situations I might have to resort to the dynamic skidded turn, but maybe there is another way to do it by carving, despite it being more difficult?


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## stillz (Jan 5, 2010)

I just revert to skidding if my speed is getting out of hand, I don't think there's anything wrong with that. But then again, I am new to this whole snow-sliding thing. Maybe there is another way.


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## NoirX252 (Aug 1, 2009)

Snowolf said:


> You have to use the correct riding technique for the conditions. People too often think that they HAVE to carve to be "good" This is very far from the truth. On a steep, narrow or busy run, The dynamic skidded turn (cross under turn) is exactly what you should be doing. The carved turn is inappropriate here.
> 
> As for dynamic carving, you should not be that counter rotated. That is more for the dynamic skidded turn. For basic carved turns, you will generally use inclination to edge the board. You keep your shoulders parallel to the board and use tilt to edge the board; allowing the side cut to turn you. In order for the tail to follow the nose in these turns, they, by their very nature, are going to be large radius turns. This tilting of the board is achieved by edging the board with both feet almost simultaneously with the upper body leaning toward the inside of the turns.
> 
> ...


It breaks my heart I won't be able to carve much when the slopes are packed, dammit!


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