# Binding Shootout 2: Union Atlas or Force, Arbor Cypress, K2 Lien, or Burton Cartels



## VoLuminous (Oct 6, 2018)

Hello mates! 

I was going to pull the trigger on some Arbor Cypress's but decide to do a little more digging. 

I just purchased a Salomon Huck Knife and want to pair it with some bindings. I don't know what anything else feels like except some super old 2010ish Burton Mission bindings (had them since I started). 

Riding Style: I mostly just carve around the whole mountain. I like to pop off things along the trails. I like anything from long greens to steep double blacks. In the park I like hitting the jumpline the most and sending it off medium sized jumps. The board I had before wasn't nice to butter on so I rarely did it. I just took the Huck Knife out for the first time yesterday and man; it was like the mountain was toast and I was buttering all over it. So I am looking to expand my park capabilites and slowly get into more butters and rails and maybe pipes etc. (never tried a rail or pipe in the 6-7 years I've rode. I'm a little nervous but I think I get the concept, just got to find smaller ones to learn on. I also rarely hit boxes, like a few a year). 

I'm 6'1" 150lbs and ride a 155w Huck Knife (standard 4 hole mount/no channel system) 

I'll be getting a different, longer board for powder and carving specifically. Something that's a a bit more stable when landing jumps too. Maybe I should get bindings that I could also put on that board? Unless different bindings would be way better on the powder board I could save up for a 2nd pair. 

A big thing I am looking for is comfort. But willing to sacrifice some comfort for responsiveness. The old Burton Missions I have have crazy pressure points from the straps so I feel like anything will be better. 

Union Atlas or Force... or Strata: These look pretty similar. I hear a lot of good things about Union bindings. Only issue I've read with these is the screw that holds the ankle strap tends to come loose. Doesn't seem like a very big issue to me. How is the ankle strap comfort wise? In your opinion which Union would be best for my riding style? 

Arbor Cypress: Was so close to getting these. Only thing I've heard is people say some of the parts are cheap, like the screws strip and break easily yada yada. The new ankle strap looks nice and wide. 

K2 Lien: Just found out about these and they look awesome. BUT they look like they wouldn't be comfortable at all. I could be toatally wrong. 

Burton Cartels: Also hear a lot of good things about these. A lot of people say it's their go to standard all mountain "do it all" binding. BUT coming from Burton bindings there's one thing I don't like and that's the ratchet system. They may have very well improved it, but I feel like their ratchets don't hold position very well or they don't tighten down enough. Or sometimes they flat out just don't catch. 

Open to any other suggestions you have! (especially from nitro)

Lots of cushion is a plus just because I like to hit a lot of jumps 

I just saw Nitro's Micro Drive ratchet system and it looks pretty sweet. Looks like you can get even more locked in to the binding. 

I appreciate any advice or opinions you have! 




Happy Shred Days, 

Niko


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## drblast (Feb 28, 2017)

Rome DoD's are the most comfortable binding I own by far, and the most versatile. I'd put them on anything. Only time I'd like something else is for very aggressive freeride. I can ride these all day for three days straight in complete comfort.

Burton Cartel/Malavita/Genesis are also extremely comfy and versatile. They aren't as responsive for me but I'm heavy and ride stiff boards. For anyone else they'd be fine.

Unions feel stiff and responsive to me but sacrifice slightly in comfort compare to Burton and Rome. Ankle strap problem is fixed as of 2019.

Haven't tried the others.


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## MrDavey2Shoes (Mar 5, 2018)

I was between Falcor, Atlas and Cypress. I went cypress. They feel amazing while riding. They compliment my full camber board well as they feel locked in around the boot. Xbase seems to do its thing well too. I have Stratas on my other board. I like them a lot too but they’re more surfy/loose. Maybe more what you’re looking for if the focus is park. The tall high backs on the cypress may be a hindersnce for jibbing. Lastly, while I like the performance, I get I step pressure from the ankle strap position on my Cypress. I don’t think that’s the norm though. Sorry for stream of conscious style post...it’s 2am


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## SlvrDragon50 (Mar 25, 2017)

I really like my Union Falcors, but I think they're too stiff if you're gonna be in the park hitting rails. They're great for jumping though. I think you might get pressure from the Force straps, but the newer Atlas and Strata will likely be good for you.

Burton Malavitas are awesome, can't really go wrong with them on any board. By far the most comfortable straps I have ever put on, and I usually always get instep pressure. Definitely Malavitas over Cartels IMO.

Rome has a nice rotatable ankle strap that alleviates instep pressure. My Katanas are awesome, and I know Angrysnowboarder is a huge fan of them as well. 

I'd throw in Now Brigades/Drives into the mix too. Very comfortable.


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## ridethecliche (Feb 27, 2019)

Aren't the malavitas and cartels using the same straps now?


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## SlvrDragon50 (Mar 25, 2017)

ridethecliche said:


> Aren't the malavitas and cartels using the same straps now?


Yes, I believe they are.


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## kriegs13 (Nov 28, 2016)

155 huck knife is in my regular rotation (love the board. awesome choice) and I have had a few different bindings on it and on similar boards as well:

-Union Force are a great pairing for the board. The "all around" nature of the bindings and board play nice. I have rode atlas as well and enjoyed them but they were on a board with significantly more stiffness. I don't think they would be BAD for a huck knife, but perhaps a bit of overkill. 

As for the straps: force straps are comfortable enough. I've never had any issue with pain or anything. The hardware issue that was very common across their line has been fixed with new hardware. If you're buying new, you have nothing to worry about. If youre buying second hand, c3 can get you a replacement hardware kit. It really does make all the difference. I used to have to worry about straps daily. I still check them before every day out but now I never have to tighten the hardware even after days of use. 

-Burton Cartel: Of the bindings you listed that I have tried, cartels (and honestly for then HK, I would go for malavitas) are the most comfortable if your boot works with them but they dont have as much adjustability as others. If your opinion of Burton ratchets is based on a 2010 ish model, youre in for a pleasant surprise in how much they have approved.

***worth noting: Burton bindings can apply weird pressure points to top sheets causing little divots at the corner. doesn't happen to everyone but certainly has happened to me more than once and to many others. Some claim it caused multiple snaps in the same place on various decks but I haven't seen that myself so can't speak to it. My occurrences were strictly cosmetic but it is annoying. The corners of the bindings can be filed a bit but thats kinda silly that such a thing would be necessary.

-Never been on an arbor or k2 binding but they both look nice. I've heard the Lien AT is actually quite a comfortable binding.


While I liked the forces a lot on the huck knife, I currently ride them with Salomon Holograms. I would recommend checking them out. Shadow fit isnt for everyone but I really dig it and ride it on multiple boards. It allows for a more responsive highback while still giving flex for presses and what not. They also make the District which is their park focused binding. I haven't been on them but for me, I cant really see needing MORE flex outside of what the soft heel allows. Oh and the holograms are really really really.....really comfortable. 


good luck!


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## SlvrDragon50 (Mar 25, 2017)

I really wanna try Salomons, heard they're pretty polarizing though. Can't decide between Burton Vitas or Salomons!


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## kriegs13 (Nov 28, 2016)

SlvrDragon50 said:


> I really wanna try Salomons, heard they're pretty polarizing though. Can't decide between Burton Vitas or Salomons!




I’ve had both and would say it’s a toss up for comfort. Vita ankle strap is hard to beat but the salomon straps are great (both the new and old kind). I haven’t used the newest vita toe straps but I think I’d still prefer the salomon one. They’ve used it for a while now and it’s really solid. I think it would really come down to whether or not you like shadow fit. They are pretty comparable when it comes to performance. 

Of note: salmon bindings tend to have a more narrow heel cup to the point where it makes some boots an iffy match. Make sure you’re paying attention to that when checking them out or be aware if you order online. 


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## drblast (Feb 28, 2017)

SlvrDragon50 said:


> I really wanna try Salomons, heard they're pretty polarizing though. Can't decide between Burton Vitas or Salomons!


I have a set of Large Districts I'll send you dirt cheap if you want to try out shadowfit. They're great but I prefer my DoD's and they don't get used.


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## SlvrDragon50 (Mar 25, 2017)

drblast said:


> I have a set of Large Districts I'll send you dirt cheap if you want to try out shadowfit. They're great but I prefer my DoD's and they don't get used.


Hah unfortunately I got some tiny feet and wear size 7.5 boots! Appreciate the offer though. 

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## VoLuminous (Oct 6, 2018)

Thank you all for the input! A lot of good opinions and advice everyone. Just got back from a beautiful weekend at Mount Snow in VT. 

After more thought it's a toss up between the Salomon Holograms and the Burton Malavitas.

I'm currently leaning more towards the Malavitas because my boot is on the wider side. I have a pair of Burton Imperials and I'm assuming they'd fit better in the Malavitas. Burton on Burton makes sense compatiblity wise. I really wish I could test them both out but I'm sure either one would be sweet. 

They are both around $250 at the moment

I really want to check out Shadow Fit. I'm highly considering getting those Districts off you. Want to PM me?


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## SlvrDragon50 (Mar 25, 2017)

VoLuminous said:


> Thank you all for the input! A lot of good opinions and advice everyone. Just got back from a beautiful weekend at Mount Snow in VT.
> 
> After more thought it's a toss up between the Salomon Holograms and the Burton Malavitas.
> 
> ...


Get the Malavitas and then try drblast's Districts! I think you'd be hard pressed to find someone who doesn't like Malavitas whereas shadowfit can be more polarizing.


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## drblast (Feb 28, 2017)

VoLuminous said:


> Thank you all for the input! A lot of good opinions and advice everyone. Just got back from a beautiful weekend at Mount Snow in VT.
> 
> After more thought it's a toss up between the Salomon Holograms and the Burton Malavitas.
> 
> ...


I'll pm you. I have size 11 Imperials that fit in the Districts just fine, so if you want to try out shadow fit first there ya go.


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## Ben.S (Feb 16, 2019)

VoLuminous said:


> Thank you all for the input! A lot of good opinions and advice everyone. Just got back from a beautiful weekend at Mount Snow in VT.
> 
> After more thought it's a toss up between the Salomon Holograms and the Burton Malavitas.
> 
> ...


TLDR: The Hologram is NOT what you're looking for. If the question is Salomon _Defender_ vs Burton Malavita, my answer is "Yes." If it's between Salomon _Hologram_ and the Burton Malavita then go with the Malavita; no question. Shadow Fit works great once/if you get used to it. The more freestyle-leaning the application the better they fit, IMO. Given your intended use as a 'do everything' binding, it sounds like the Defender (NOT the Hologram) would be the best choice for you from the Shadow Fit line. Malavitas are also great bindings, are my favourite from the Burton line, and would suit your described purposes as well. 

From Salomon I've run Holograms and Quantums but also have a set of Defenders that I haven't run, yet. I like the mix of greater lateral freedom with maintained heel-toe response. The shape of the Quantum highback gives you a lot more lateral support and leverage than you get on the Hologram highback (and not just because of the difference in flex). Looking at the Defender, I expect the lateral support to be more similar to the Quantum than to the Hologram. The Quantum heelcup is larger than the Hologram heelcup, FWIW. Don't know about the Defender yet but will by the end of the day.

That lateral support from the mini wing on the Quantum (and presumably on the Defender) can also take some getting used to if you're not a fan of bindings that don't just get out of the way/stay out of the way when you move laterally. As far as that goes, though, the Quantums are less intrusive than a lot of others because the lateral 'play' that Shadow fit gives you makes them less direct in transmitting your lateral movements to the board than what you get with some other bindings -- the 'winged' Malavita is the most extreme example I can think of off the top of my head but a lot of bindings wrap around the boot rather than being more flat and out-of-the-way. The mini lateral 'wing' on the Quantum and Defender is hard to appreciate from some photos/video but is definitely there and definitely noticed once you're on the snow with the Quantum. 

It's actually really cool, and very obvious while riding, how the shadow fit highback leans with you as you lean laterally and medially -- https://youtu.be/BULpgbPmJ0E?t=18

The first time I tried a Shadow Fit binding was on a board that I hadn't ridden before. I actually forgot that I was on Shadow Fit, so I thought I just didn't like the board. After a few runs I got used to the feel and now I can jump between regular bindings and Salomons without issue. I have Holograms on a Funslinger and it's a perfect fit. I put the Defenders on an Arbor Westmark but haven't ridden it, yet. I've ridden the Quantums on all-mountain, all-mountain freestyle and freeride boards -- Ripsaw, One, Flagship, Super 8, Iguchi camber, Jibsaw. They're good, but I prefered my Now Pilots or Drives on all of those.

Overall I think Salomon has a great concept with Shadow Fit. The new ankle strap is a great improvement over the older ones, IMO, and the toe straps are still my favourite of any binding.

The Malavita is a great binding. It's my favourite Burton binding, followed by the Genesis. It would suit what you've described as well, and would be an easy transition from what you're currently riding.


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## Axa (Dec 27, 2013)

VoLuminous said:


> Hello mates!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Anyone who knows the reason Nitro have ditched this Micro Drive ratchets system for 2020 bindings after only 2seasons? (2016/17-2017/18?)

Any reliability issues due to the 50% decrease in gripping/slippage when buckling down tight? 
Or just to hard to source spare parts compared to ordinary straps?

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