# K2 raider suck?



## flopsekop (Mar 9, 2015)

Half a year ago i bought the 2015 k2 raiders at a great price point. Normally i dont make quick decisions and try to get as much information as i can before buying a piece of equipment but i thought this boot fits very well so i bought it. 

Turns out it was a very bad decision, every time i ride, my feet hurt so bad after just 30 minutes. Sometimes they even fall asleep (you know, that tingling sensation). I even changed the insole to a superfeet insole (anyone heard of it) but that doesn't help much. I ride size 11.5 and my toe just barely hits the front of the liner. my every day shoes are size 10.5 (bit small though) 

Has anyone experienced such pain with these boots or is it just me who bought the wrong size or wears it wrong?


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## linvillegorge (Jul 6, 2009)

If you wear a 10.5 street shoe and you're wearing an 11.5 snowboard boot then your boots are almost certainly too big. If anything, you tend to size down in snowboard boots. I usually wear a 10.5 - 11 street shoe and a 10 in snowboard boots. Also, a lot of beginners get crazy aggressive with strapping in their bindings and go way too tight creating pressure points.


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## Phedder (Sep 13, 2014)

flopsekop said:


> I ride size 11.5 and my toe just barely hits the front of the liner.
> 
> is it just me who bought the wrong size


I think there's your answer. Boot allows your foot to move around, not giving it the support it needs for snowboarding. Probably felt fantastic in the store though!


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## stickz (Feb 6, 2013)

Yeah your boots are too big. I wear a size 10 normal shoe and both my k2 boots are size 9. And super feet are good insoles I use the black ones in one pair


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## flopsekop (Mar 9, 2015)

Thanks for your replies guys but i dont think its my bindings, i have union contacts since 2 weeks and absolutely love em, they absorbed a lot more impact than my previous, the sp core (do not buy, they sucked ass) and for a moment i thought my problems were gone, but they came back but it was less painful than with my previous bindings. 

I also think it is to big. Problem was, i was 15 when i bought them (still am) so i bought them a little bigger so i will not grow too big for them too soon. 

Just wanted to know if other people had problems with the raiders


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## flopsekop (Mar 9, 2015)

stickz said:


> Yeah your boots are too big. I wear a size 10 normal shoe and both my k2 boots are size 9. And super feet are good insoles I use the black ones in one pair


I think i have the green ones


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## Nocturnal7x (Mar 6, 2015)

If you haven't done so, maybe try wearing the superfeet on top of the boots insoles. They will work as a shim and make the shoe smaller.

The greens are good, most support, take up the most room in the shoe though, which may be good here.


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## flopsekop (Mar 9, 2015)

Nocturnal7x said:


> If you haven't done so, maybe try wearing the superfeet on top of the boots insoles. They will work as a shim and make the shoe smaller.


thanks for the tip, will try that tomorrow.


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

Hi Flopsekop,

STOKED for the PM invite to your thread. I will be happy to have a look.

Please take a barefoot measurement of both the length and width of each foot. That will be a great place to start. Also please take a barefoot photo of your foot on your boot insert.


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## flopsekop (Mar 9, 2015)

i bought the arbor westmark 157midwide last week (havent tried it out yet) if my feet still hurt after riding im going to buy a new boot and probably size down. which would suck because then i could just have gotten the 155 or 154 midwide which i would rather have but it would not have been for the current size of my boot.

aah problems, problems.


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## flopsekop (Mar 9, 2015)

lenght is 27 cm and width is 10 cm, i do not really understand what you mean by boot insert, is it the inserts on the board, should i take my bindings off for that?


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

flopsekop said:


> lenght is 27 cm and width is 10 cm, i do not really understand what you mean by boot insert, is it the inserts on the board, should i take my bindings off for that?


Got it.

27 cm is a size 9 in snowboard boots. 10 cm is a standard D for width so no adjustment required there. The insert (footbed) can be removed from the bottom inside of the boot liner.


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## flopsekop (Mar 9, 2015)

Size 9 !? That was the size of my previous shoes and in those my feet we cramped. That cant be right


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## Deacon (Mar 2, 2013)

flopsekop said:


> Size 9 !? That was the size of my previous shoes and in those my feet we cramped. That cant be right


Trust the man. I wear a 10.5ee work boot and size 9 wide snowboard boots. He has helped a bunch of us skeptics see the light.

Not that you need wides, but check this thread for the converts...

http://www.snowboardingforum.com/boots/187194-petition-more-wide-snowboard-boot-options.html


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## flopsekop (Mar 9, 2015)

ive tried my boot with two insoles and it feels much, much better because its more dampening and my feet cant move around so much anymore. i can believe wiredsport but if i buy a size 9 boot i would outgrow it very fast and im a little broke after buying a new board and bindings.

I really really hope the two insoles solve the problem so i dont need to feel bad about my decision to buy a midwide. thanks for all the help guys!

oh and by the way, if i still need boots because my feet still hurt, which boot would you guys recommend. max 250 euro i think a higher end 2015 boot around 200 euro would be perfect. i live in the netherlands so i ride a snowdome (about twice a week so the boots must be durable) obviously for mostly jibbing but i still go on a snowboarding holiday where i go all mountain. so mid stiff would be perfect. i've been looking at the 2015 adidas zx 500 2015 adidas samba 2015 burton highline and 2015 ride lasso. thanks


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## flopsekop (Mar 9, 2015)

size 11.5 and 10.5 is quite a difference. then it would mean i should have size 10 snowboard boots.


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## linvillegorge (Jul 6, 2009)

flopsekop said:


> ive tried my boot with two insoles and it feels much, much better because its more dampening and my feet cant move around so much anymore. i can believe wiredsport but if i buy a size 9 boot i would outgrow it very fast and im a little broke after buying a new board and bindings.
> 
> I really really hope the two insoles solve the problem so i dont need to feel bad about my decision to buy a midwide. thanks for all the help guys!


Your boots work better with two insoles because those insoles are taking up vvolume in book s that are too big for you.


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## flopsekop (Mar 9, 2015)

So it's time for an update (don't think anyone is going to read this though)

So yesterday I rode my boots with 2 insoles as suggested and i also didn't set them as tight as normal, (arbor westmark) for an hour and a half in a snowdome mostly hitting the jump and doing some rails and boxes. My feet started to hurt after about 10 minutes (bit earlier than normal) but overall the pain was less than before, still not optimal though:sad2:
still think i have the wrong size boot, but I also think its partly because of the little to none dampening the raider has. (various people have complained about that)

i'm going to keep my boots with 2 insoles for now, that's mostly because i don't want to spend the money right now, but in a few months i'll have some more money to spend, so hopefully there will be some nice boots on sale by then.

Cheers,

Sjoerd


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

flopsekop said:


> i bought the arbor westmark 157midwide last week (havent tried it out yet) if my feet still hurt after riding im going to buy a new boot and probably size down. which would suck because then i could just have gotten the 155 or 154 midwide which i would rather have but it would not have been for the current size of my boot.
> 
> aah problems, problems.


Hi Bro,

Are these still your original size 11.5's or is this a new boot?

STOKED?


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## Brewtown (Feb 16, 2014)

Boot shopping is a pain in the ass, but it's probably the most important piece of equipment to enjoy your day on the hill. Yeah the Raiders aren't a great boot, but they aren't terrible either. I feel like your getting overly hung up on the quality/dampening ability of the boot and missing the massive importance of fit. Unfortunately the whole 'leaving room to grow' thing just doesn't work out well for snowboard boots. If there is ANY room for movement in your boot your feet will probably end up hurting and you will generally just compound the pain by cranking down on your binding straps to compensate. Most boots pack out quite a bit so I usually buy a boot that is borderline painfully tight in the toe area so after heat molding or a few days of riding they fit perfect. 

Even if you sized them correctly the real issue with boots like the Raiders are that they are single BOA, which means they evenly tighten from top to bottom. Maybe you get lucky and the boot fits just right but for most people a double BOA or lace boots will give you a much better fit. For example, if your like me and have normal size feet but skinnier calves/ankles you will end up killing your feet in order to get things snug around your leg with a single BOA. Unfortunately double BOA usually comes with a higher price tag so I'd strongly recommend going with laces.


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## flopsekop (Mar 9, 2015)

Wiredsport said:


> Hi Bro,
> 
> Are these still your original size 11.5's or is this a new boot?
> 
> STOKED?


these boots are still my k2 raiders. (thanks for helping me out)


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## flopsekop (Mar 9, 2015)

Brewtown said:


> Boot shopping is a pain in the ass, but it's probably the most important piece of equipment to enjoy your day on the hill. Yeah the Raiders aren't a great boot, but they aren't terrible either. I feel like your getting overly hung up on the quality/dampening ability of the boot and missing the massive importance of fit. Unfortunately the whole 'leaving room to grow' thing just doesn't work out well for snowboard boots. If there is ANY room for movement in your boot your feet will probably end up hurting and you will generally just compound the pain by cranking down on your binding straps to compensate. Most boots pack out quite a bit so I usually buy a boot that is borderline painfully tight in the toe area so after heat molding or a few days of riding they fit perfect.
> 
> Even if you sized them correctly the real issue with boots like the Raiders are that they are single BOA, which means they evenly tighten from top to bottom. Maybe you get lucky and the boot fits just right but for most people a double BOA or lace boots will give you a much better fit. For example, if your like me and have normal size feet but skinnier calves/ankles you will end up killing your feet in order to get things snug around your leg with a single BOA. Unfortunately double BOA usually comes with a higher price tag so I'd strongly recommend going with laces.


yeah I know, still kinda bummed that i didn't do my research about the boot and my size. As far as the single boa: because of the two insoles I have in my boots i can't set my boots thight around my without destroying my foot because there is more space taken there. 

But i can't afford new ones right now. still kinda on the lookout though (something like this maybe? Ride Lasso 2015 online kopen bij blue-tomato.com)

And when i go snowboarding it's once or twice a week 4 hours at most (in a snowdome, so i can take breaks whenever i want), so the pain will not be as big of a problem when i go on a snowboard trip to the alps where i snowboard at least 8 hours a day (but that's still far, far in the future though).

thanks for helping me out bro


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## f00bar (Mar 6, 2014)

Keep in mind you may be able to sell your current ones for a good chunk of the price of new ones. So probably not a total loss, though the smart move is probably fronting the money and selling the old after you have the new ones.


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## Brewtown (Feb 16, 2014)

flopsekop said:


> yeah I know, still kinda bummed that i didn't do my research about the boot and my size. As far as the single boa: because of the two insoles I have in my boots i can't set my boots thight around my without destroying my foot because there is more space taken there.
> 
> But i can't afford new ones right now. still kinda on the lookout though (something like this maybe? Ride Lasso 2015 online kopen bij blue-tomato.com)
> 
> ...


Asking for opinions on a pair of boots is a complete waste of time until you at least have a specific reference for what you like. For example if you know a certain boot fits you well and you are looking for something similar, or something softer or stiffer, then maybe someone can give you a recommendation. But again, its all about fit which is highly personal. Go to a shop and try on as many pairs as you can and just be straight up you have a limited budget, maybe they can price match or throw you a deal, if not offer the shop dude a few bucks for their help and see what you can find online once you have a better idea of what brands fit you best and your exact size. Otherwise the only other choice you have is to find an online place with a good return policy and just order a ton of different boots in various sizes, hope one works, and return the rest. Like I said it's a pain in the ass, but worth it.


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

Hi Flop,

Your 11.5 boot is 2.5 sizes (a full inch) too large for your size 9 foot. 

Sadly, there is no fixing that. Boots that are too big are usually painful. Not only does your foot move around creating friction and repetitive pressure/release discomfort but it will also try to _grip_ to stabilize itself. This gets worse as the boots break in. Additionally, the structures of your foot will not line up with the structures of the boot.

The best thing you can do for your riding (when it becomes possible for you) is to offload these and move on to a solid fit.


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## ZeMax (Feb 21, 2014)

I'm with Foobar sell your current boot and downsize ASAP. If you can buy in a local shop, I ususaly spend a hour or 2 trying every models until I find one that fit the shape of my feet perfectly. Worth the Assle.

Just to give you an Idea I wear size 12 street shoes and somehow manage to fit in size 10.5/28.5 snowboard boots. But it is impossible for me to fit into a size 11.5 shoe or smaller 

As Wired asked: STOKED ? If not do something quick about it.


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

ZeMax said:


> Just to give you an Idea I wear size 12 street shoes and somehow manage to fit in size 10.5/28.5 snowboard boots. But it is impossible for me to fit into a size 11.5 shoe or smaller


Hi Zemax,

That is the textbook fit! A 28.5 cm foot (285 Mondo) converts to a 10.5 snowboard boot size and a 12 Brannock (US) shoe size. 

That (highly confusing) difference is one of the factors that has so many snowboarders buying the wrong sized boots. 

Good work avoiding that trap!


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## timmytard (Mar 19, 2009)

you need to sell those boots before you wreck em, cause you can get cash for barely used boots, but you can't get shit for old beat up ones.


TT


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## flopsekop (Mar 9, 2015)

timmytard said:


> you need to sell those boots before you wreck em, cause you can get cash for barely used boots, but you can't get shit for old beat up ones.
> 
> 
> TT


yeah, will maybe go to a shop this weekend to try different boot, so then i can sell those old ones.


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## flopsekop (Mar 9, 2015)

Still one question though, will there be a problem with my arbor westmark 157 midwide when i buy new boots? And if so what problems will arise?


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## timmytard (Mar 19, 2009)

flopsekop said:


> Still one question though, will there be a problem with my arbor westmark 157 midwide when i buy new boots? And if so what problems will arise?


Not near as bad as the boot size problem.

I too smash my size 10 foot into a size 9, sucks ass the first couple times but then is perfect.

I couldn't do the way too big boot thing.

But I prefer a wide board, not a midwide.

So you shouldn't have a problem.


TT


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## flopsekop (Mar 9, 2015)

timmytard said:


> Not near as bad as the boot size problem.
> 
> I too smash my size 10 foot into a size 9, sucks ass the first couple times but then is perfect.
> 
> ...


Hey thanks man, i was pretty worried having small boots on my board was gonna cause bad problems. So hearing from someone it is not as big of a problem is really comforting (not the right word, i know) 

I dont really know what you mean by way too big boot thing.

Sjoerd


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

flopsekop said:


> Still one question though, will there be a problem with my arbor westmark 157 midwide when i buy new boots? And if so what problems will arise?


The Westmark 157 Midwide is wider at the inserts than your size 9 foot (27 cm) foot even with no stance angle. You will be at least 1 cm within the confines fo the edges with normal stance angles. That is a long way from ideal. Have you ridden the board yet?


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## timmytard (Mar 19, 2009)

flopsekop said:


> Hey thanks man, i was pretty worried having small boots on my board was gonna cause bad problems. So hearing from someone it is not as big of a problem is really comforting (not the right word, i know)
> 
> I dont really know what you mean by way too big boot thing.
> 
> Sjoerd


I just meant the problems,.

How one leads to another & weighing those problems.

Having too big of a boot like that.
Is a Big fuckin' problem, to Me personally.

I like my booties nice & tight with absolutely NO slop or play.
Anything else is unacceptable, to me.

Now weigh that against having a wide/wider than normal snowboard.
I have size 9 & 9.5 booties. But I prefer wie model boards over what other people call "normal"

So, when I weigh those against each other

I only see one problem, not 2


TT


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## flopsekop (Mar 9, 2015)

Wiredsport said:


> The Westmark 157 Midwide is wider at the inserts than your size 9 foot (27 cm) foot even with no stance angle. You will be at least 1 cm within the confines fo the edges with normal stance angles. That is a long way from ideal. Have you ridden the board yet?


Yeah i have so i cant return the board. You're making me nervous again, shit.


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## Deacon (Mar 2, 2013)

flopsekop said:


> Yeah i have so i cant return the board. You're making me nervous again, shit.


Don't be nervous. Get boots that fit. Then ride that shit. Is it maybe less responsive than a non wde? Yep. Will you know the difference yet? Nope. Quit over thinking the minutia and just ride.


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## flopsekop (Mar 9, 2015)

Deacon said:


> Don't be nervous. Get boots that fit. Then ride that shit. Is it maybe less responsive than a non wde? Yep. Will you know the difference yet? Nope. Quit over thinking the minutia and just ride.


that's the problem, i'm always overthinking it and i can't help it. also with trying new tricks. 

What do you mean by knowing the difference yet. I already have about 6 seasons of snowboarding done, only i don't know anything about boot fit, tech and that kinda stuff


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## ZeMax (Feb 21, 2014)

Deacon said:


> Don't be nervous. Get boots that fit. Then ride that shit. Is it maybe less responsive than a non wde? Yep. Will you know the difference yet? Nope. Quit over thinking the minutia and just ride.


+1 :thumbsup:


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## flopsekop (Mar 9, 2015)

You're right, i should stop worrying. Still kinda sucked bought the wrong size board if im going to buy new boots


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

flopsekop said:


> You're right, i should stop worrying. Still kinda sucked bought the wrong size board if im going to buy new boots


Hi Flop,

It is way better to know. That way you can begin to correct the problem as budget allows. Boots first. You cannot control anything well with sloppy boots. Then when you rework your other gear you can get bindings that suit your actual boot size and pair both of those with the correct board width. 

On the upside, you will notice an immediate performance improvement from correcting your boot issue.


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## flopsekop (Mar 9, 2015)

so I measured my foot again, and it looks like it isn't 27cm but 27.5. that means my barefoot has about 0.2 overhang with zero stance angles. it would be kinda okay with 9.5 size boots I think. 

i'm going to a snowboard shop tomorrow to try a lot of boots, my raiders wil probaby be given to my brother. the boots are perfect for him becasue he has much larger feet than me.


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

flopsekop said:


> so I measured my foot again, and it looks like it isn't 27cm but 27.5. that means my barefoot has about 0.2 overhang with zero stance angles. it would be kinda okay with 9.5 size boots I think.
> 
> i'm going to a snowboard shop tomorrow to try a lot of boots, my raiders wil probaby be given to my brother. the boots are perfect for him becasue he has much larger feet than me.


27.5 converts to 9.5 but boot size is not a factor in determining board width. Your barefoot length is the important factor there. 

At your stance angles you had noted that your feet are inside the confines of your edges. Going forward that is what we will look to avoid.


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## flopsekop (Mar 9, 2015)

so i went to a boardshop today. i measured my feet with a ruler of the burton brand and it said i should have size 11s. my feet were cramped in a size lower than 11 of any boot (i'm aware you guys think i should have a boot size much smaller than that but my feet were so cramped in those smaller ones it just wasn't right. After all, i'm the one who feels if it's good or not)

So i have bought size 11 salomon dialogues. it felt sooo much better. the adjustability, and heel hold are soo much better. they feel really tight around my feet. it felt so different compared to my other boot, where i could move around a bunch.

tested it out for an hour right after. and guess what. absolutely no pain. the control i had over my board was so much better with this one. still can't say anyting about snowboarding for longer periods of time though. 

thank you guys for all your help and happy shredding,

Sjoerd


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