# Why Canadians get hosed on prices?



## Clarion (Jan 6, 2011)

So I'm trying to figure why we get hosed on prices. I work in logistics - importing & exports so know a little.

*Duties* - I looked at the Tariff Schedule for duty rates
*Skiis* - Free
*Ski Bindings* - Free if made in US/Mexico (and there are other conditions for duty free but most don't apply). 5% if made in China but must have a certain Form signed by manufacturer. Otherwise it's 7%.
*Cross Country Skiis & Snowboards* - Free if made in US/Mexico (and there are other conditions for duty free but most don't apply). 5% if made in China but must have a certain Form signed by manufacturer. Otherwise it's 7.5%.
*Snowboard bindings, ski poles* - Free if made in US/Mexico (and there are other conditions for duty free but most don't apply). 3% if made in China but must have a certain Form signed by manufacturer. Otherwise it's 6.5%.
*Downhill Ski boots* - Free
*Cross country skii boots and snowboard boots* - Free if made in US/Mexico (and there are other conditions for duty free but most don't apply). Otherwise it's 18%. (No GPT treatment eg. China but if made in Australia or New Zealand the duty is 12%)

*Taxes*
In Ontario HST is 13%. However, in a business it's a wash. When you import goods you pay the HST but the government gives it back to you. When you sell the goods you collect the HST but then you have to give that to the government.

*Shipping*
Varies depending on your carrier. For me, to ship a pallet of goods in North America across the border costs about $300 after all the additional fees and normally about $50 to $75 each additional pallet. I sent 10,000 lbs of goods to Las Vegas for a show at about $1500. When I import goods from our US warehouse it's more or less the same. So... lets lsay one pallet of snowboards weighing 2000 lbs (100 boards?) is $300. That's $3 per board. Importing a pallet from China at the same weight costs about the same after the fuel surcharges, bunker fees, etc...

*Brokerage Fees*
I pay about $50 - $100 per shipment importing. Exporting to US is gawd awful because US brokerage works differently. They charge based on the value of the shipment.

*Union*
I don't think any independent board shop is unionized so don't have to worry about all the ridiculousness associated with unions.

*US Exchange Rate*
It was a factor in the past but not anymore. CAD/US almost on par. Those businesses who purchase in US currency could be making a tiny profit on the exchange rate alone.

So why for example, Lib Tech which is made in the US is about $200 more, MSRP in Canada? I'm all for supporting the local guy and the Canadian economy but, come on, seriously? 100% profit on snowboards? Okay maybe more like 90% profit but still. It kinda irks me when I see a sale sign that says 20% off on a board. In my mind it's not really a sale because it's still 60% profit for the seller when selling at 20% off.


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## grafta (Dec 21, 2009)

Tradition?


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## Donutz (May 12, 2010)

Smaller market for one thing. 10x smaller. You can see the diff when you go south of the border and hit up one of those US stores. Far more stock, far more selection, because vendors can depend on far quicker movement of inventory.

Vendors can make money two ways: One is by markup on individual goods, and another is by cycling inventory quickly. If you have two items, one has 10% markup, the other only has 2% markup, but the second item sells 10x as fast, you'll make more money on the second item. Canadian market doesn't support that kind of quick inventory turnover, so vendors have to depend more on markup.


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## kleco63 (Dec 22, 2011)

If you want to save a little money NEVER EVER use UPS, USPS Has much cheaper fees, Also in Alberta there are places just across the border(States side) you can get things shipped to and they give you a year to go pick it up... I guess its possible somebody could do that and not clam it coming back in to Canada.....


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## snowjab (Dec 22, 2010)

Not sure why you get hosed but why do Canadians hate The USA so much, i was in whistler last weekend and all i heard was bad shit come out of canadians mouth about the USA.


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## Bones (Feb 24, 2008)

Bad stuff about Americans? In Western Canada? I can't imagine why :dunno:

Cough...Keystone...cough

As for pricing differences, it's not just snowboards. The MSRP is higher in Canada on almost every identical product. Largely, it's a hold over from days of significant currency differences, but lately there's no real reason


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## snowjab (Dec 22, 2010)

Bones said:


> Bad stuff about Americans? In Western Canada? I can't imagine why :dunno:
> 
> Cough...Keystone...cough
> 
> As for pricing differences, it's not just snowboards. The MSRP is higher in Canada on almost every identical product. Largely, it's a hold over from days of significant currency differences, but lately there's no real reason


Yea prices are ridic in canada. I couldnt believe they wanted 18 dollars a lb at mongolian grill, its 7 bucks total here. Taxes are a joke, after thinking about it you guys dont get free health medical coverage.


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## Bones (Feb 24, 2008)

There's a fundamental attitude difference between Americans and Canadians that Americans just don't get. Probably because the differences that you easily see are negative: high taxes, restrictive laws, etc. 

There's a story in Pierre Burton's "The Promised Land" about the settling of the Canadian West that kinda goes to the heart of the matter.

An American Farmer sold his land, pulled up stakes and emigrated to the West in 1800's. When asked about the difference between the "democratic" American Wild West and the rather boring Canadian West and the authority imposed by a central government, he said "if I get in trouble in Canada, the Northwest Mounted Police will catch me and I'll get justice in a fair trial. But I also don't have to worry about vigilante justice and crooked local sheriffs"

Maybe we're boring, maybe we don't have individual state rights and yes we pay more in tax. But we chose that to get the positive tradeoffs: universal healthcare, a social safety net, general safety and a heavily regulated, but relatively stable economy.


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## dreampow (Sep 26, 2011)

You think its bad there, in Japan we pay more than double on almost all items even though we are way closer to china where they are made, so lower shipping costs:dunno:.


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## cjcameron11 (Feb 5, 2011)

You know up until last year i used to think the same thing about Australia and its prices compared to similar products in the USA. The fundamental issue here is demand, which obviously derives from population. Consider the USA has close to 330 Million people (yes I'm including illegals) AUS has just on 21 Million. Of that population difference, if 10% of the US population buy a snowboard thats 33 Million sales, if we sell to 10% its 2 Million, so I'm sure you see the difference in price markups, sell less = more profit margin, sell more = less margin.

A prime example is this. Australia has a massive and excellent quality wine industry, so why when i travel the the US, why do i see the exact same bottle of red that costs $30 here in AUS cost $8 in the US. Simple the US bulk buys our wine, and i mean in the high millions of bottles, whereas the Australian consumer market cannot even use the amount of wine that the US buys in one order.

Another massive factor is taxes, GDP (per capita), demand, and country geographical location. Basically the government decides what to tax and how to tax it to a point where it is still considered by the population to be worth paying the price it is listed.

There are so many factors to pricing that goes beyond the obvious that it sometimes makes no sense, and trust me I'm not defending this, i hate that shit here is more expensive but unfortunately thats how it is!


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## ThunderChunky (Oct 1, 2011)

Do a hundred boards really way 2,000 Ilbs. For some reason that seems like a lot to me.


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## cjcameron11 (Feb 5, 2011)

highly doubt it, that would mean they were 20lbs each for 2000lbs per 100boards, i think he was just making a point. I would have thought the average board weighs about 6lbs - 12lbs.


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## Rezist (Jan 4, 2012)

That's why I buy most my boards at Sport Chek, sure there not that good, and there none of the cool name brands but I actually pay close to what the board is worth.


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## Bones (Feb 24, 2008)

cjcameron11 said:


> Australia has a massive and excellent quality wine industry, so why when i travel the the US, why do i see the exact same bottle of red that costs $30 here in AUS cost $8 in the US. Simple the US bulk buys our wine, and i mean in the high millions of bottles, whereas the Australian consumer market cannot even use the amount of wine that the US buys in one order.


True, but that doesn't explain why duty-free US-made products cost significantly more in Canada. The MSRP is significantly more than the increased shipping costs and, in many cases, shipping is a separate charge. Auto-parts, particularly tires, are far cheaper just 45 minutes over the border for me. In fact, several US online retailers have separate Canadian pricing that is way out of line. I was looking for a front wheel bearing for my Suzuki. $18.50 in the US, shipped for free anywhere in the lower 48. For Canadian orders, you have to order from their Canadian website. You'd expect some mark-up for shipping and brokerage, extra warehousing costs, etc. $50 CDN maybe? $137.50 + a $25 shipping charge for the exact same brand/model. 

And when I ordered, they said that they'd order it in from their US warehouse that afternoon! Needless to say, I drove the 45 minutes across the border to save $140 on a $20 part.


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## cjcameron11 (Feb 5, 2011)

Well it kinda does explain it to a certain degree, while there is no duty on it i can almost guarantee that the amount of products that a wholesaler will buy would be significantly less that a US equivalent. Shipping as you said is a very minor factor in determining cost for products but the simple fact that the auto warehouse in the US would buy and stock a lot more product than most of their Canadian equivalents.

Now of course your example is an extreme one and to me there is no logic in that kind of markup, but overall the main reason on pricing as stated has to do with demand and supply.


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## legallyillegal (Oct 6, 2008)

MSRP and MARP, set by the manufacturer!

some (K2) have fair pricing differences, some (Burton) don't


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## hound (Jan 6, 2012)

Went to university in the states great country great people but hard to understand recently. I think the states is losing the struggle to maintain freedoms. I know many American friends who are also concerned. Nevertheless I don't judge people really on country or politics because tthese things are as perennial as the grass. If you like to ride and are a free spirit you are ok in my books.


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## cjcameron11 (Feb 5, 2011)

legallyillegal said:


> MSRP and MARP, set by the manufacturer!
> 
> some (K2) have fair pricing differences, some (Burton) don't


Completely true, but that is directly influenced by the countries GDP and product demands, the reason why they do charge a premium in certain countries is because they know that people will pay that price. Also logistically to set up consumer help offices or warranty info/departments costs the company money, that is of course unless they leave it directly up to the retailer which is somewhat common.


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## Clarion (Jan 6, 2011)

snowjab said:


> Not sure why you get hosed but why do Canadians hate The USA so much, i was in whistler last weekend and all i heard was bad shit come out of canadians mouth about the USA.


I'm really sorry to hear this was the case. Normally, out west the people are really nice. Some of the nicest people out west. In the Toronto area they may not be so nice.



snowjab said:


> Yea prices are ridic in canada. I couldnt believe they wanted 18 dollars a lb at mongolian grill, its 7 bucks total here. Taxes are a joke, after thinking about it you guys dont get free health medical coverage.


Health care... definitely not free and the system is less than ideal. The way family doctors are paid here, promote trying to see as many patients as possible. If you have multiple problems, the greedy doctors will try to make you book different visits for each problem. Also, if you go to a walk-in clinic your family doctor will get billed for your visit to a walk-in clinic. My friend got yelled at by his family doctor for going to a walk-in clinic for abdomen pain and vomiting because he would have to wait 2 weeks before seeing his family doctor. I told him to find a new family doctor.

Don't get me wrong, I think our health care system is great, but it needs restructuring.


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## jyuen (Dec 16, 2007)

snowjab said:


> Not sure why you get hosed but why do Canadians hate The USA so much, i was in whistler last weekend and all i heard was bad shit come out of canadians mouth about the USA.


that's because everyone in whistler is from australia.


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## grafta (Dec 21, 2009)

jyuen said:


> that's because everyone in whistler is from australia.


:laugh:

I'm laughing because it's true.

It is interesting that people hate on the US and talk shit. Runs the other way too for sure. I had a friend from New Zealand stay in Portland for a couple months and it really seemed to poison her attitude towards Canada and Canadians. Maybe just the company she was keeping :dunno:

People I hang out with here in BC are really chill and don't have those kinds of problems. Most people just see things as different but the same down there if you get me.


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## snowjab (Dec 22, 2010)

Clarion said:


> I'm really sorry to hear this was the case. Normally, out west the people are really nice. Some of the nicest people out west. In the Toronto area they may not be so nice.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


So that means alot of the free healthcare is preventive type stuff , which is great. What about major surgeries like heart surgeries. IS that free or do you have to travel to another country? One thing about USA is that most Doctors are in debt forever due to high med school cost, I do hear that canada takes in doctors from schools that the USA doesnt. There are schools in the carribean where canadian doctors study but USA wont acknowledge them as med schools.


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## snowjab (Dec 22, 2010)

grafta said:


> :laugh:
> 
> I'm laughing because it's true.
> 
> ...


I was in a gondola at whistler listening to this NZL dude talk about how Iran and russia were gonna bomb the USA and we deserve it and his little chunk a dunk canadian gf was agreeing. I minded my own business but it was funny how you can just see the hate coming from them more than the actual fact of what is going on in the world. He used youtube as a source to his news outlet. Thats why i say its all about the media you use to get your news coverage.


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## Clarion (Jan 6, 2011)

snowjab said:


> So that means alot of the free healthcare is preventive type stuff , which is great. What about major surgeries like heart surgeries. IS that free or do you have to travel to another country? One thing about USA is that most Doctors are in debt forever due to high med school cost, I do hear that canada takes in doctors from schools that the USA doesnt. There are schools in the carribean where canadian doctors study but USA wont acknowledge them as med schools.


I'm not sure about major surgeries. I would hope our health care system would cover the costs of relocation or at least subsidize some of the costs.

In Canada, doctors graduate with insane amounts of debt. My friend rents out his condo and declined a candidate because he was a doctor who had 125K debt.

As for hiring doctors from outside the country I'm not sure how that works. But what I can say is there is a shortage of doctors in certain areas of the country and there are currently government incentives for doctors to practice in the middle of nowhere. So, if an international applicant meets certain criteria, I can see how we accept some doctors that the US may not.


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## snowjab (Dec 22, 2010)

Clarion said:


> I'm not sure about major surgeries. I would hope our health care system would cover the costs of relocation or at least subsidize some of the costs.
> 
> In Canada, doctors graduate with insane amounts of debt. My friend rents out his condo and declined a candidate because he was a doctor who had 125K debt.
> 
> As for hiring doctors from outside the country I'm not sure how that works. But what I can say is there is a shortage of doctors in certain areas of the country and there are currently government incentives for doctors to practice in the middle of nowhere. So, if an international applicant meets certain criteria, I can see how we accept some doctors that the US may not.


Yea, that debt is ridic. They should just become dentist.


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## Bones (Feb 24, 2008)

snowjab said:


> One thing about USA is that most Doctors are in debt forever due to high med school cost, I do hear that canada takes in doctors from schools that the USA doesnt. There are schools in the carribean where canadian doctors study but USA wont acknowledge them as med schools.


That's a typical international problem, not just with the USA. Canada also doesn't recognize a lot of international qualifications.

Doctors in Canada are limited in what they can charge for services because they bill it to the healthcare system which has established payment rates. We are constantly fighting the brain drain to the much more lucrative US system.


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## BigmountainVMD (Oct 9, 2011)

snowjab said:


> One thing about USA is that most Doctors are in debt forever due to high med school cost, I do hear that canada takes in doctors from schools that the USA doesnt.


Ehhhh... You aren't going to pay more than $60,000/year at med school. If you are taking out all unsubsidized loans, and don't pay anything back until you graduate, you really won't be spending more than $200,000. We will say $350,000 to include living expenses during school as well. Do you really think that the average GOOD doctor in the US won't be able to pay that off in just a couple of years? Even at the low end salaries of a general practice, you are still pulling 6-figures. It only goes up from there. Average doc is making 200 + grand a year...


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## snowjab (Dec 22, 2010)

BigmountainVMD said:


> Ehhhh... You aren't going to pay more than $60,000/year at med school. If you are taking out all unsubsidized loans, and don't pay anything back until you graduate, you really won't be spending more than $200,000. We will say $350,000 to include living expenses during school as well. Do you really think that the average GOOD doctor in the US won't be able to pay that off in just a couple of years? Even at the low end salaries of a general practice, you are still pulling 6-figures. It only goes up from there. Average doc is making 200 + grand a year...


youre probably forgetting that they also have their college loans but either way the 200k a year doesnt happen right ouf of school. I say it takes them anywhere from 6-10 years to pay them off. I get to see credit files everyday and some of the worst are doctors. Not because they dont pay their bills but theres alot of strain on their financial profile.


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## grafta (Dec 21, 2009)

snowjab said:


> I was in a gondola at whistler listening to this NZL dude talk about how Iran and russia were gonna bomb the USA and we deserve it and his little chunk a dunk canadian gf was agreeing. I minded my own business but it was funny how you can just see the hate coming from them more than the actual fact of what is going on in the world. He used youtube as a source to his news outlet. Thats why i say its all about the media you use to get your news coverage.


NZ media doesn't paint a pretty picture of America so i'm not surprised. Not many Kiwi's have love for the states.

Ok so back on topic, nearly... you wanna talk bout getting hosed on prices? Try living in New Zealand. Low dollar value, very high shipping costs... Canada ain't so bad


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## seriouscat (Jan 23, 2012)

Depends on the industry and distributor rules. For example some industries set an MAP for USD only and based their cdn map on the exchange rate at the time. There's no fixed value CDN MAP. 

It's up to the shops to either pass on or keep the gain/loss on the forex outside of that range.


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## cjcameron11 (Feb 5, 2011)

Unfortunately there are many people around the world with negative attitudes towards the US and most of it is il informed hate and cultural differences that fuel the fire. I myself am guilty of some of this when i was growing up, i always thought the US were full of arrogant SOB's and thought the whole country acted like the world police (sometimes i still wonder about that).

Problem is as someone mentioned is the media in other countries, as well as the media in the US. I find that Australia has changed its view in the last 10 years to be more "pro" US as we have formed a quite strong and healthy economic, trade, and diplomatic bond. Although i know many other countries media is completely negative in their media reports. The type of people the world now breeds helps keep the hate alive as many people hear something on TV or read something in the news paper and take it for gospel.

I find that most people who actually meet those they "hate" quickly change their opinions (or adapt them and say they are the exception). If you are a good person it doesn't matter where you live what you believe in or who you worship, to me i try not to pigeon hole an entire country because of a couple of dicks i have met.


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## Bones (Feb 24, 2008)

I think it's important that you don't interpret "hating/bashing the USA" the same as "hating Americans".


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## cjcameron11 (Feb 5, 2011)

Bones said:


> I think it's important that you don't interpret "hating/bashing the USA" the same as "hating Americans".


That's the point, it is the same and thats the problem, most people will associate the people with the country because it's easier to justify why you don't like someone, I hate that guy cos he is from the USA or I hate the USA because the Americans I know a wankers etc


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## Bones (Feb 24, 2008)

It's also important to remember the context in which you meet them. I've met so many really nice and kind Americans in small town America, for example. Unfortunately, they're not the type of people who travel a lot so you don't tend to meet them on foreign soil. The ones I meet are more like the German tourists you run into at Caribbean resorts.

That said, the nation of the USA isn't universally loved around the world and it shouldn't really come as a shock to hear negative comments.


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