# Cartel vs Cartel X and EST vs ReFlex



## Luffe (Apr 5, 2021)

Looking to get some new bindings, since my old ones broke. I've narrowed it down do Cartel EST vs Cartel X EST 2021. The price difference is about 50 $. From what I read, the Cartel X 2021 is pretty much the same as Cartel 2020. The 2021 Cartel is taking the spot of Mission 2020.

For those that tried both, and preferrably from people that are pushing the bindings a bit. Is there a notable difference in terms of stiffness and feel? Hate when the bindings feel like the weak/soft link while I'm riding. Would rather wear the ankle strap a little looser in a stiff binding than have to tighten the binding with force every run.


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## Needmoresnow (Dec 29, 2019)

I have tried both, but own the Cartel X. I find them that little bit more responsive, and I really like the heel hammock.


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## Rip154 (Sep 23, 2017)

With the X you get the hammock for better heel hold and a rubber cushion under your heels, Hammock might take a little of the pressure off your instep, and the cushion likely has a tiny bit more rebound than foam.


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## ridethecliche (Feb 27, 2019)

Cartel X without a doubt.

My favorite binding to date. I prefer them over the malas too on most boards. I see no reason to go cartel now other than budget. And if you're on a budget and want something softer, you should really look at brands like K2 and Arbor for bindings since their prices are significantly better than burton imho.


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## Phedder (Sep 13, 2014)

I haven't ridden the 2021 Cartels, but I have owned many different pairs of Cartels previous years. The New Cartel X is definitely a step in the stiffer/premium direction. New highback and heel hammock system works very well, noticeably more responsive than older Cartels. If I had a channel board that saw a lot of days in my quiver I'd be on Cartel X's for sure.


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## Luffe (Apr 5, 2021)

Seems like I'll go with the X, since you all agree.

How about EST vs ReFlex? I want the EST, but as of now, only the ReFlex are available at a 20% discount in Norway. The EST has to be ordered directly from Burton at full price.

How big of a difference is there? Doesn't matter for me that the EST will only be compatible with the channel system. I'll also gladly pay the difference if the EST is better and more responsive. Had an issue with my old bindings, where it felt like the ReFlex plate was too soft, which made the heel of my binding rise from the heelside of the board.


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## Needmoresnow (Dec 29, 2019)

Go EST if you don't mind swinging the extra cost, or wait a few weeks and buy them discounted during their annual sale. 

EST allows for far more options with setup, boot centering being a big one. The EST Cartel X also uses the hinge, which allows for better board feel IMO.


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## Luffe (Apr 5, 2021)

Nice. Couldn't find much bindings on sale at the Burton webpage, but if they do an annual sale, I'll just wait.

As of now, only the Malavita is at sale for 2279 NOK, while the Cartel X is at full price of 3300 NOK.


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## GWoman (Oct 2, 2017)

Is the highback of the Cartel X also stiffer than the one on the "now regular" Cartel or is it the same highback with the added heel-hammock ?


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## ridethecliche (Feb 27, 2019)

Both my cartel X's are reflex I think. I have a set of malas for EST (and also a set for reflex).

I actually think EST is better for EST boards but only if you ride normal stance angles. You can't really get them dialed all that well going double positive if you use a large angle. That was a surprise to me.


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## Luffe (Apr 5, 2021)

I ride 15-20 / 0, so I guess that will be fine. Even more points for EST now.


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## ridethecliche (Feb 27, 2019)

I've actually never tried the cartel x in EST lol. I ended up buying them both in reflex. I have the EST malas for my yup. That's the only channel board I have left. I think the newer boards I'll be getting won't have the channel just based on brands. The malas should be fine if I end up with an archetype I guess. Or the old cartels.


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## Jack87 (Jan 9, 2021)

I recommend Reflex. Better price and I know you said you don't care about compatibility to non channel boards but I promise having that compatibility is awesome. One day you might come across a really nice board to add to the quiver for a great price and you will not have to worry about buying another set of bindings right away to use it.

If Burton had made reflex first they would have never made est. It just has so much marketing behind it now hence why it's around.

I own the Cartel X and like them.


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## Luffe (Apr 5, 2021)

I have one issue with the ReFlex plate. I fit my old SP brotherhood bindings on the hometown hero, and my heel kept lifting from the board, making the bindings feel soft, even thought they feel stiff when I use them with all the 4 screws on my old board.

Don’t know of this will be the case if I get the Burton Reflex and mount them to the Channel. But it makes me hessitant to get Reflex.

+better price for sure, but I’m willing to pay for bindings that are mounted to the board as good as possible.


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## Jack87 (Jan 9, 2021)

Luffe said:


> I have one issue with the ReFlex plate. I fit my old SP brotherhood bindings on the hometown hero, and my heel kept lifting from the board, making the bindings feel soft, even thought they feel stiff when I use them with all the 4 screws on my old board.
> 
> Don’t know of this will be the case if I get the Burton Reflex and mount them to the Channel. But it makes me hessitant to get Reflex.
> 
> +better price for sure, but I’m willing to pay for bindings that are mounted to the board as good as possible.


Do what you feel is best for you for sure. 

Keep in mind burton re:flex bindings are not the same as the SP Brotherhood traditional disk. They are specifically designed for channel boards. You still get board feel and more shock absorption than EST in a re:flex. Other than the current price difference between the two you're looking at now there is also a difference in value as the reflex version can be mounted to virtually any snowboard increasing its value in flexibility (to me at least). Not cheap bindings so getting more for my money is important to me for sure. 

You'll be happy with any Cartel X though!


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## Luffe (Apr 5, 2021)

Yeah. There is value to beeing able to mount them on other boards. But performance vice, all the points goes to the EST version as far as I understand.

How much of a difference is there between the Malavita and the Cartel X? At slower speeds I guess it doesn't matter that much. But will the Malavita feel soft when going faster? I'm 180 lbs, 6'3. I see that the bigger guys usually prefers the Cartel X, while the smaller guys often likes the Malavita. Guess I'm inbetween weight wise.

I'm asking because I'll be able to get some Malavitas for ca. 230 $, while the Cartel X EST is at ca. 330$ at the moment. Reflex Cartel X is at 260$.


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## GDimac (Nov 19, 2015)

Having owned/ridden both, the CartelX feels like a charged up Vita imo. With the CartelX having a bit more response in the baseplate (45% short glass/nylon composite construction on the C-X vs 30% short-glass/nylon composite on the Vita) & a stiffer strap. The heel hammock feels a bit more locked in on the CartelX, also. So really depends on the feel you want and/or what board(s) you'll be pairing it with.

Have since converted all my binders to the Cartel X (had frank'd bindings prior; combining parts from the GenX, Genies & prev Cartel). One as my charger set, with the default strap. And a second set as my more comfy/"looser" one with GenX straps, instead. At ~165-170lbs, for perspective.


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## Luffe (Apr 5, 2021)

Gonna use them with a Hometown Hero 156. Not a very stiff board, and won't really be optimal for charging hard.


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## GDimac (Nov 19, 2015)

Luffe said:


> Gonna use them with a Hometown Hero 156. Not a very stiff board, and won't really be optimal for charging hard.


True. And fwiw, Ben Ferg's setup in the finals at Natural Selection was the Cartel X on his custom "Hometown Hero", with Driver X boots; a super responsive combo, to say the least loll. 

The Cartel X will likely make your HH 56 feel a bit more playful, unless you have softer boots. Which could then level it out to a more mid-flex feel overall, if your boots are on the softer end of the spectrum. But again, all depends on the feel you want/prefer. I love the mid-stiff flex range feel, personally (paired with my Ion Leathers).


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## Luffe (Apr 5, 2021)

No doubt the Cartel X would be optimal, and it's the binding I want the most. But is it worth 100$ compared to the Malavita? How much of a difference will it be? I guess I'm an advanced rider, but still not pushing the gear nearly as hard as the really good riders like Ben Ferg. 10 meter drops will only happen in my dreams.

Don't seem to be much sales on Burton.com either. Anyone knows what time of the year they usually have sales?


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## Needmoresnow (Dec 29, 2019)

I'm 5'11" and about 165-170lbs. I'm pretty much exclusively riding the cartel X est on my boards and don't find them too stiff by any means. I really don't think I'd want anything softer IMO. I run them on a 156 Custom camber, 155 Skeleton Key, and 155 Kilroy pow. Using Photons for boots. 

I've never had the chance to try the malavitas though, so difficult for me to compare.


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## Needmoresnow (Dec 29, 2019)

Luffe said:


> No doubt the Cartel X would be optimal, and it's the binding I want the most. But is it worth 100$ compared to the Malavita? How much of a difference will it be? I guess I'm an advanced rider, but still not pushing the gear nearly as hard as the really good riders like Ben Ferg. 10 meter drops will only happen in my dreams.
> 
> Don't seem to be much sales on Burton.com either. Anyone knows what time of the year they usually have sales?


They usually have a sale right before they release the 2021-2022 gear. Last year's sale was in June or July I think.


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## GDimac (Nov 19, 2015)

Luffe said:


> No doubt the Cartel X would be optimal, and it's the binding I want the most. But is it worth 100$ compared to the Malavita? How much of a difference will it be? I guess I'm an advanced rider, but still not pushing the gear nearly as hard as the really good riders like Ben Ferg. 10 meter drops will only happen in my dreams.
> 
> Don't seem to be much sales on Burton.com either. Anyone knows what time of the year they usually have sales?


And on the flip side, Mark McMorris used Vitas with his custom HH (slightly stiffer, I believe) with SLX boots at Natural Selection, iirc. Point being, really depends on the feel you're after, and/or your budget. 

It's worth the investment imo, esp if you want a bit more response. So wherever you can find an end of szn sale on them, I'd grab them asap. GL, dude 🤙🏻.


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## Luffe (Apr 5, 2021)

Needmoresnow said:


> They usually have a sale right before they release the 2021-2022 gear. Last year's sale was in June or July I think.


Ah, nice.

Seems like most people like the Cartel X better. I usually like stiffer better than softer, so most likely I'll like them better too. Guess I'll just cancel the order on the Malavitas and see if I can get some Cartel X on sale in June/July.

Most likely I'll also ride the HH as a one board quiver the next 10 years. 100 bucks extra for more fun every time I ride is not that much.


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## Luffe (Apr 5, 2021)

Recieved the Malavitas earlier today. To avoid the hazzle of returning them, I decided I'd just go with them and mount them to my board. But as you all said, the ankle strap didn't feel tight. And that's when I'm standing still in my living room, so I guess the Malavita straps will feel even looser when I'm hitting the slopes. Luckily Burton was very helpful with returns, so I'll just order some Cartel X instead.

But another thing I noticed was that the Large size seemed to be a little big. My boots are Nike's in Euro size 45/ US size 11. Had to put the toe strap at the tightest adjustment setting, and still almost used all of the strap. Maybe 2 cm left. So if the toe strap stretches a little bit they will be too large. Seems like newer boots has more volume ib the toebox or something. Anyone with about the same boot size that has experience with large vs medium Burton bindings?


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## Grannycar (Dec 31, 2019)

Def go with medium burton bindings. those in between sizes it is always better to go with the smaller size.


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## Luffe (Apr 5, 2021)

Grannycar said:


> Def go with medium burton bindings. those in between sizes it is always better to go with the smaller size.


I ended up with mediums. Only bad thing with the Cartel X EST is that you can’t move the position og the ankle strap, which you can on the ReFlex version.


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