# Boot Recommendations: Narrow-Footed, All Mountain rider



## freshy (Nov 18, 2009)

If you already know who wired is, you know what he's going to ask you to do...


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## TheBigChill (Aug 29, 2013)

freshy said:


> If you already know who wired is, you know what he's going to ask you to do...


And the exact measurements are supplied above, and were done correctly. Heel against flat, molding-less wall measured to longest toe for length. Medial side of foot against wall, measured to widest point for width.


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

TheBigChill said:


> Alright folks, I've been riding for 23 years, yet somehow I've been f*cking up my boot choices for that long. I'm currently rocking some ancient (2008) Salomon Pledge boots, and want to upgrade to a new boot and one that fits properly.
> 
> 
> Rider: 27cm x 8cm foot size. 145 lbs. Very narrow foot and heel.
> ...


Hi Big,

Was 27 / 8 your exact measurements on each foot? That is the best place to start. If you haven't already done so, please measure your foot using this method:

Kick your heel (barefoot please, no socks) back against a wall. Mark the floor exactly at the tip of your toe (the one that sticks out furthest - which toe this is will vary by rider). Measure from the mark on the floor to the wall. That is your foot length and is the only measurement that you will want to use. Measure in centimeters if possible, but if not, take inches and multiply by 2.54 (example: an 11.25 inch foot x 2.54 = 28.57 centimeters). For width please place the inside (medial side) of your foot against a wall. Please then measure from the wall out to the widest point on the lateral (outside) of your foot.


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## TheBigChill (Aug 29, 2013)

Yup; that's how I do it. Right foot 27cm x 8cm Left foot 26.6cm x 8cm. No socks, no wall molding.





Wiredsport said:


> Hi Big,
> 
> Was 27 / 8 your exact measurements on each foot? That is the best place to start. If you haven't already done so, please measure your foot using this method:
> 
> Kick your heel (barefoot please, no socks) back against a wall. Mark the floor exactly at the tip of your toe (the one that sticks out furthest - which toe this is will vary by rider). Measure from the mark on the floor to the wall. That is your foot length and is the only measurement that you will want to use. Measure in centimeters if possible, but if not, take inches and multiply by 2.54 (example: an 11.25 inch foot x 2.54 = 28.57 centimeters). For width please place the inside (medial side) of your foot against a wall. Please then measure from the wall out to the widest point on the lateral (outside) of your foot.


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

TheBigChill said:


> Yup; that's how I do it. Right foot 27cm x 8cm Left foot 26.6cm x 8cm. No socks, no wall molding.


Got it. 8 cm is extremely narrow at your foot length (Mondopoint 270 or US men's size 9). It is the lowest measurement in the range for A width. Men's boots are D width and there are no boots designed as narrow. The narrower ones are really just narrow D's. I would strongly suggest that you consider a women's boot (which are B width) at women's size 10 (still Mondopoint 270). There are some masculine enough looking options that are great boots https://www.burton.com/us/en/p/womens-burton-ritual-ltd-snowboard-boot/W19-171251.html . They will technically still be too wide for you but it will be a lot closer. 


If you would like confirmation on your measurements please post up some pics. I will be happy to have a look. 

STOKED!


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## TheBigChill (Aug 29, 2013)

Thanks, and yes, my feet are super narrow. 

Buying women's boots was something that I considered, but have never tried on. The Burtons you linked to are prohibitively expensive, and I'm a bit concerned that most women's boots won't keep their rigidity for long.

One question/comment I do have: Almost everything that I'm finding some inconsistency in how manufacturers equate US Women's to Mondopoint. For example, Nitro says a 10W = MP 27.5, whereas Burton say 10W = MP 27. I suppose I should just look for a 27 no matter what.

Back to Men's boots: Are there any that are reliably on the narrower side? I know that none make a 'narrow', but some might err in that direction.

Thanks



Wiredsport said:


> Got it. 8 cm is extremely narrow at your foot length (Mondopoint 270 or US men's size 9). It is the lowest measurement in the range for A width. Men's boots are D width and there are no boots designed as narrow. The narrower ones are really just narrow D's. I would strongly suggest that you consider a women's boot (which are B width) at women's size 10 (still Mondopoint 270). There are some masculine enough looking options that are great boots https://www.burton.com/us/en/p/womens-burton-ritual-ltd-snowboard-boot/W19-171251.html . They will technically still be too wide for you but it will be a lot closer.
> 
> 
> If you would like confirmation on your measurements please post up some pics. I will be happy to have a look.
> ...


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## Kenai (Dec 15, 2013)

TheBigChill said:


> Buying women's boots was something that I considered, but have never tried on. The Burtons you linked to are prohibitively expensive, and I'm a bit concerned that most women's boots won't keep their rigidity for long.



As a general rule, stiff boots are always more expensive so stiff men’s boots are still going to cost quite a bit. (I know you probably know that.) I have no idea your finances, but if you’ve put up with ill fitting boots for 23 years it might be time to treat yourself to something that fits! Lots of women ride aggressively so at your size/weight there is definitely a stiff women’s option available. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

TheBigChill said:


> Thanks, and yes, my feet are super narrow.
> 
> Buying women's boots was something that I considered, but have never tried on. The Burtons you linked to are prohibitively expensive, and I'm a bit concerned that most women's boots won't keep their rigidity for long.
> 
> ...


Hi Big,

I would strongly suggest women's boots for you. You will likely find some closeouts on high end women's boots which will not have a stiffness or breakdown disadvantage at your 145 lbs. They will be better suited for you in all aspects. In regards to men's boots you will find some narrower D's. That's it. That will still leave you 3 width sizes wider than your foot. Even women's boots will all be too wide for your foot. You will always want to go by Mondopoint sizing (or cm sizing where that is given). The other #'s are all just conversions. Again, I would suggest posting images.

STOKED!


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## TheBigChill (Aug 29, 2013)

Kenai said:


> As a general rule, stiff boots are always more expensive so stiff men’s boots are still going to cost quite a bit. (I know you probably know that.) I have no idea your finances, but if you’ve put up with ill fitting boots for 23 years it might be time to treat yourself to something that fits! Lots of women ride aggressively so at your size/weight there is definitely a stiff women’s option available.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Agreed on the pricing of stiff boots, and I've always bought boots that were at least a few seasons old (new) to mitigate the high price thing.
It'll be nice to not have to struggle to get boots tight enough before charging...


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## TheBigChill (Aug 29, 2013)

Wiredsport said:


> Hi Big,
> 
> I would strongly suggest women's boots for you. You will likely find some closeouts on high end women's boots which will not have a stiffness or breakdown disadvantage at your 145 lbs. They will be better suited for you in all aspects. In regards to men's boots you will find some narrower D's. That's it. That will still leave you 3 width sizes wider than your foot. Even women's boots will all be too wide for your foot. You will always want to go by Mondopoint sizing (or cm sizing where that is given). The other #'s are all just conversions. Again, I would suggest posting images.
> 
> STOKED!



*PLOT TWIST*

My feet are actually 8.7cm and 8.8cm wide. My measuring tape has a goofy little tab before the 0cm mark actually starts :dry: 27cm is still true for length, as I measured that correctly from the beginning. 

It would seem that this still necessitates a women's boot..

I'm looking at K2 Sapera and K2 Contour.


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

My forefoot is slightly wider than yours, narrow heel, high arch (24.5cm long and 8.6 vs 9cm wide).
Tried /owned all stiff womens boot on the market besides Flux (not available here).

If you want to check out women's boots on the stiffer side, these are some you can try: 32 TM-2, Ride Cadence, DC Mora, Salomon Moxie, (Burton Surpreme, K2 Contour).

The DC Mora is a nice one, but softened quite quickly (~40d; it's also the cheapest I ever owned). The Ride Cadence was good for two seasons (80d) till it softened too much for my liking (I like stiff responsive boots). The 32 is the next one I get, fits very well, narrow. Dunno how long it will stay stiff yet. I also own their XLT for splitboarding, which is _very_ stiff and stayed like that after many touring days, thus I have high hopes that their TM-2 also stays stiff for a good time. Burton Surpreme and K2 Contour were too wide for me. Moxi was too wide around heel. If you don't havea girly narrow heel, it may fit...

I also owned a mens/"unisex" Deeluxe (their backcountry boot, very stiff, not what you want, cos you don't need a stiff bc sole for resort riding), which fit my forefoot and heel quite well after adding custom insoles and J bars. Could be that other models in their lineup in your size could fit with some tweaking. Tho... their lace stoppers ain't the best. Order replacement stoppers. However, I assume, that for your type of riding, you don't tighten boots that much anyway.

In general: Any boot, men's as well as women's, will get softer after certain days of use. Depends on model, your riding style and weight on how many days _you_ will think it softened too much. Like, my SO thinks his Burton Driver X are too soft (useless) after ~80d. I still ride a boot after that time as mock around soft boot on a soft snowboard. And then there are ppl who happily ride their formerly stiff boot untill they fall apart even tho they are meanwhile soft as a sneaker and don't care. Since you have used your boots for many years so far, you seem to be one who doesn't care too much about remaining stiffness? (Hiw many days a season do you ride?) So I'd assume you can ride a high-end woman's boot for a decade, too, which makes a good investment


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

In your image it appears that your your heel is behind that stub wall. That could change your measurement. You will want to measure again against a flat wall that is longer than your foot and measure so that the front and rear of the ball and ankle are up against the wall. I was also unsure what you were pointing in the length image. Please let me know.

Another thing to consider. Many riders who have been relying on stiffer boots to (poorly) make up for an inadequate fit find that they get much better support and performance from medium flex or even soft boots when they are able to match their actual foot dimensions.

STOKED!


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## TheBigChill (Aug 29, 2013)

neni said:


> My forefoot is slightly wider than yours, narrow heel, high arch (24.5cm long and 8.6 vs 9cm wide).
> Tried /owned all stiff womens boot on the market besides Flux (not available here).
> 
> If you want to check out women's boots on the stiffer side, these are some you can try: 32 TM-2, Ride Cadence, DC Mora, Salomon Moxie, (Burton Surpreme, K2 Contour).
> ...



This is super useful; thanks. Too bad that the Contours were too wide for you, as we're a similar forefoot width (8.7cm here). 

The reason that my older boots still hold their rigidity after several seasons is because I ride about 20 days per season, max. Having said that, their stiffness combined with the need to lace them VERY tightly made them unpleasant to put on, and I did often have to re-lace because I push boots very hard for a light rider.

I'll look at some of your suggestions


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

TheBigChill said:


> This is super useful; thanks. Too bad that the Contours were too wide for you, as we're a similar forefoot width (8.7cm here).
> 
> The reason that my older boots still hold their rigidity after several seasons is because I ride about 20 days per season, max. Having said that, their stiffness combined with the need to lace them VERY tightly made them unpleasant to put on, and I did often have to re-lace because I push boots very hard for a light rider.
> 
> I'll look at some of your suggestions


Best thing is to try 'em all. Every foot is so unique that width alone can not determine, if _you_ like a boot. How well a foot is held in a boot comes from overall fit. Could well be that your arch/heel are better stabilized in a Contour than my foot was, and thus, the width plays a lower role? Idk. You'll have to try .

Yeah... overtightening is a strong sign of having an ill fitting boot. Been there. Once you get a good fit, you'll quit to overtighten. Good luck hunting 

BTW: Once you found the best possible boot, and still don't have the _perfect_ fit...? Aftermarket insoles can be a big help, too. Standard insoles are made to "fit" everyone (i.e. almost nobody). An insole which supports _your_ footbed can further keep the foot from slipping.


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## TheBigChill (Aug 29, 2013)

neni said:


> Best thing is to try 'em all. Every foot is so unique that width alone can not determine, if _you_ like a boot. How well a foot is held in a boot comes from overall fit. Could well be that your arch/heel are better stabilized in a Contour than my foot was, and thus, the width plays a lower role? Idk. You'll have to try .
> 
> Yeah... overtightening is a strong sign of having an ill fitting boot. Been there. Once you get a good fit, you'll quit to overtighten. Good luck hunting
> 
> BTW: Once you found the best possible boot, and still don't have the _perfect_ fit...? Aftermarket insoles can be a big help, too. Standard insoles are made to "fit" everyone (i.e. almost nobody). An insole which supports _your_ footbed can further keep the foot from slipping.


The challenge is trying things on before buying. I have effectively zero shops around my home that carry these boots, so I'm left ordering over the internet.


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

99.9% of the time, you're going to measure your foot wrong. So use it as a guide, but do not force yourself into any size based on a measurement, and do not ride a sloppy fit because of it either. Taking photos of your measurements help because Wired will look at it and spot if theres mistakes, but still... go to a bootfitter.

Wide feet are somewhat easy to deal with and much more common. Narrow feet are a struggle.

I have narrow feet, and the ONLY real solution was aftermarket liners. High volume Intuiton with a pro bootfit.

The only brands that came close to holding my heel are ThirtyTwo, salomon and Vans. But even with those, I have to work the liners with inserts and stuff. Even on my aftermarket liners, I had to use J bars, made out of intuition foam and heat molded at the same time as the whole liner.

So you can make a stock liner work for a while, or even longer if you boot fit it and add good inserts (well thought out stuff, so recommend using a real boot fitter to help).


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

TheBigChill said:


> The challenge is trying things on before buying. I have effectively zero shops around my home that carry these boots, so I'm left ordering over the internet.


Then you're never going to get a perfect fit on the first try.

Order a few and return the ones that don't fit. Then take the ones you keep to a pro fitter and work with them.
It is still possible that the boots you choose as the best fit are still way off and the fitter will tell you you're screwed .


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## TheBigChill (Aug 29, 2013)

Well, I grabbed some Ride Cadence boots, so we'll see how those go...




F1EA said:


> Then you're never going to get a perfect fit on the first try.
> 
> Order a few and return the ones that don't fit. Then take the ones you keep to a pro fitter and work with them.
> It is still possible that the boots you choose as the best fit are still way off and the fitter will tell you you're screwed .


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

TheBigChill said:


> Well, I grabbed some Ride Cadence boots, so we'll see how those go...


Cadence was the one with best heel hold I ever had. Hope it treats you well, too. 

Potential drawback could be that is that it has a slender footprint, i.e. maybe quite narrow for a men's bindings... well... if you're in the market for responsive women's bindings, too, Now Conda would be my pick  (this year's comes in all black, last year was pink-black, year before was teal-black)


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