# Why the hate for Burton......don't want to hear fighting, just facts...



## george_4116 (Dec 11, 2010)

*I know it may have been discussed before, but I want some fresh, adult-like opinions. Don't have anything of substance to offer, please carry on.*

Im pretty new to the forum....and I have noticed a certain degree of "hate" towards Burton. I know it may have been discussed before, but I want some fresh, adult-like opinions.

I would like to hear solid reasoning, no bashing please. If you don't like the brand, tell me why and move on. We are all entitled to our opinions and I want to hear yours.

Personally their stuff has worked great for me (5'11", over two bills, would classify myself as an "advanced beginner"). I Ride a Burton board, bindings, and boots. Not drinking the cool aid, I just believe the longer you have at something, the better you are at it (Nike basketball shoes, Titleist golf clubs, apple computers, sony electronics, etc.)

As far as other brands, I know NS's are bulletproof (My next board most probably will be a NS). I know Mervin is made in the US and full of great tech (No personal experience so I can't make an educated comment). I can speak of K2 boards, and in my experience they are very good. That said, let's hear your civilized opinions.....

:thumbsup:


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## Willy36 (Dec 29, 2008)

I rode some rental Burtons and they didn't work for me, so when it came time to buy my own board, I avoided them :dunno: They aren't worth the hype.

BTW Callaway irons and Cleveland woods and wedges are the way to go :cheeky4:


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## linvillegorge (Jul 6, 2009)

We've needed a thread on this topic. I doubt it's ever been discussed previously. I'm sure a simple search would turn up nothing.


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## george_4116 (Dec 11, 2010)

Well I was trying to keep it civil and hear comments based on experiences....I appologize if I wasted anyone's time by visiting a topic that, although previously visited, I had curiosity about. If you do not want to offer anything constructive look at the other topics in the forum, there are some excellent discussions out there that I am sure will benefit from your (linvillegorge)very valuable opinions. Thanks for looking.

Willy 36, about the boards, fair enough. About the golf clubs....I respect your opinion, and Clevelan wedges are where the money is...


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## Telosin (May 12, 2010)

I think the hate is semi-toward Burton and semi-toward the people who are generally associated with riding Burton. The people who run Burton know how to make money and, frankly, they do simply because they sponsor people like Shaun White and are hyped up to sound like the only board company worth anything on the planet to a non-snowboarder. In reality, there are many other companies out there with better boards and better technology that don't get nearly as much recognition for what they do. Burton makes a good board, but they are very expensive.

There are also a lot of douches who ride Burton. I didn't think it was that bad until I started looking for it, but there are an insane amount of high school kids whose parents spent $1000 on a full setup when they don't even know how to ride. And Burton is almost always the board they go for because they haven't been into snowboarding enough to research the other companies. That pisses me off more than anything because I had to work hard and sacrifice a lot of other stuff to save up for all my gear.



Also, I ride Burton. I got an amazing deal on a 2010 setup (too good to pass up) and their high-end boards are definitely decent. If people laugh at me, I show them up on the slopes. As long as you can back up your riding, you don't have to worry about the hardcore people dissing you.


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## Inky (Feb 2, 2011)

@Willy, all rentals suck. the k2 rental board's gonna suck just as much as the Burton one. Rentals aren't a very good indication of how a brands real boards are gonna ride. Burton don't really have a hype train anymore..

@op, Big b gets hate because they're massive. Any big company as big as Burton in snowboarding or skating gets hate, people just find a reason. Sometimes they deserve it, sometimes they don't. Burton has done bad things for the industry (cutting all those team riders, closing down their usa factory and outsourcing, killing local shops through direct sales, etc) which I think are perfectly good reasons to hate a company, but Burton also good things for the industry like Chill, the stash, and withdrawing from Sierra.

Burton has a reputation sucking because with a board line as big, diverse and innovative as Burtons, there have to be some boards that suck donkey balls and get bad reviews, and since Burton's massive and everyone and their goldfish rides a Burton, that means they all suck.

Burtons have a reputation for breaking easily because a lot of Burton boards are made, therefore a lot of Burton boards break e.g if 10 Capita's are made and 100 Burton's are made, 1 capita breaks, 10 Burton's break and before you can say "they're both made in the same factory", Capita's are seen as bombproof and Burton's are seen as being fragile as, even though they have the same rate of breaking.I think Burton equipment doesn't necessarily deserve it's bad reputation.

Personally I don't ride Burton boards or bindings, because I don't agree with what they've done for the industry and I want to support small companies that I believe in, which is really hard to do that in the southern hemisphere.

I'm done. Cupcakes sold separately.


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## george_4116 (Dec 11, 2010)

Telosin....fair point. I am by no means an expert, I link my turns, go as fast as anyone (you know what I mean), do the small park jumps, etc. So in short, because Burton has more exposure, more people assume its the end all be all of riding. I do agree that a lot of people whose parents drop a K on their setups, independent of whether they can ride or just want to look cool on the lift line, ride Burton. Your point reminds me of Tapout in the MMA arena, it got the most exposure, so purists dubbed it poser gear becauese the guys at Tapout ran a business.

Thanks for contributing...


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## Telosin (May 12, 2010)

george_4116 said:


> Telosin....fair point. I am by no means an expert, I link my turns, go as fast as anyone (you know what I mean), do the small park jumps, etc. So in short, because Burton has more exposure, more people assume its the end all be all of riding. I do agree that a lot of people whose parents drop a K on their setups, independent of whether they can ride or just want to look cool on the lift line, ride Burton. Your point reminds me of Tapout in the MMA arena, it got the most exposure, so purists dubbed it poser gear becauese the guys at Tapout ran a business.
> 
> Thanks for contributing...


Exactly like Tapout. Yeah man, no offense was intended with my post at all. I was just stating what I think others think and what I'm beginning to believe a little too. Like you, I'm definitely going NS with my next board.


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## Snowfox (Dec 26, 2009)

george_4116 said:


> Well I was trying to keep it civil and hear comments based on experiences....I appologize if I wasted anyone's time by visiting a topic that, although previously visited, I had curiosity about. If you do not want to offer anything constructive look at the other topics in the forum, there are some excellent discussions out there that I am sure will benefit from your (linvillegorge)very valuable opinions. Thanks for looking.
> 
> Willy 36, about the boards, fair enough. About the golf clubs....I respect your opinion, and Clevelan wedges are where the money is...





george_4116 said:


> Im pretty new to the forum....and I have noticed a certain degree of "hate" towards Burton.
> 
> I would like to hear solid reasoning, no bashing please. If you don't like the brand, tell me why and move on. We are all entitled to our opinions and I want to hear yours.
> 
> ...


To be honest, I have not seen a Burton hate thread in a while (well, before my brief hiatus from the site anyways, thanks Apple) while I specifically saw several of "Why the hate towards Burton" threads. There's not nearly as much as you people seem to believe. 

Going on to why you might see some people dislike Burton:
1. Moved all their production from the U.S.. Granted, a lot of companies have, but considering their role in the history of snowboarding and support of the recent Olympic U.S. Teams (although they did support others to my knowledge) it kind of hits closer to home. 
2. Touting a "Support Local" campaign while having what many describe as prohibitive minimum buy ins as well as sometimes being direct competitors to those stores. (Sierrasnow didn't help...)
3*. Overproducing, which led to both potential quality issues (more boards made, more boards break) as well as a sharp decrease in perception of Burton brand value (why buy a Burton board when you can wait till Christmas and get it at a larger discount?)
4. A lot of people have had bad experience with lower end boards. Burton probably gets more heat since they just have so many boards to be honest. (Rentals, haha)
5. Overpriced (or at least the perception of overpriced) Boards. People feel you can get equivalent boards from other companies for $50-$100 less. Your mileage may vary. 
6. Some leftovers from the original outcry about the incompatibility between EST and regular bindings. Largely gone since there are many adapter plates out now (and most people seem to admit that you might as well use it if you have a Burton board with it)
7**. Huge marketing campaign that annoys other boarders who have to explain that Burton is not necessarily the best brand, other comparable companies do exist, and there's more pro snowboarders out there than that ginger***. 
8. They're big. It's cool to be a "rebel" rather than part of the big group. 
9. They raped my dog. 
10. Personal experience with products that legitimately failed them. 

*They've cut back on this in the last year or so. Realized it was hurting the brand image. 
** This is one of the reasons many of us (or at least I'm) quick to point out other snowboards that aren't from Burton's line. Honestly, I assume most people have already been to the Burton website and seen their products. 
*** Extra points if they believe he created every single trick in existence. Specifically the double cork. I'm sure people will give him credit for the triple for some reason pretty soon. 

Snowfox

p.s. Snowolf, can we make posting this and similar posts a bannable offense? Pweaaaaaaaase?


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## AIRider (Dec 25, 2010)

* people hate BURTON because it's too commercialized *

whenever something becomes too popular, people start hatin' ... Fuck, look at Nirvana, started small underground, then exploded and went against the single thing they stood for. 

look at dj tiesto, back in the early late 90's he was the shiznit, people loved him because he wasn't well known, then became the biggest sell out with money growing out of his ears ... 

and then you have shaun white ... need i say more ..

and on and on and on ... 

so burton got too big ... money money money toyota toyota toyota 

eeh what the hell do i know ...


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## JoeR (Oct 30, 2010)

I don't hate Burton in any way. I've used Burton gloves and Burton socks, and have purchased Burton boots for my son. The quality has been fine. I stay away from Burton boards and bindings, however, because I don't like proprietary systems. Burton used three-screw binding mountings when the industry standard was four, and now they use the two-screw EST/Channel setup on their high-end equipment. I prefer the industry standard, and I have more confidence in four screws than in three or two.


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## freshy (Nov 18, 2009)

I don't dislike Burton because they are too big or "mainstream" or whatever you want to call it. I mean for Jake Burton is was a best case scenario in terms of starting out and getting as big as they are now. 

I don't like them because I think their quality sucks and you don't really get what you pay for. Most of my friends that had Burton boards complained about it loosing it's pop after a season and becoming a noodle, and they seem to break easier then most boards; maybe there is a disproportionate number of Burton decks out there and you hear of more Burton boards breaking because there is simply more out there :dunno:.
And Burton bindings seem to have a habit of having the heelcup snap. Those two things have caused me to stay away.

And then there is the whole insert thing. Every other company has the universal 4x4 pattern, but then Burton comes along and changes their system calling it an advancement, but seems to me they just want to make extra money if someone doesent want a Burton deck and Burton bindings. You still have to shell out some money to get a piece for your baseplate unless you get Burton bindings for your Burton board.


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## SimonB (Oct 13, 2010)

JoeR said:


> Burton used three-screw binding mountings when the industry standard was four, and now they use the two-screw EST/Channel setup on their high-end equipment.


Actually, Burton marketed the 3-D pattern first, then the rest of the industry standardized the 4x4 pattern.

That being said, we (me, GF and son) do own quite a bit a Burton gear, not because I like the company so much, but because it was cheap enough last-season stuff. Sure, my Freestyle bindings are not gonna perform like Romes or Unions, but they're worth the 80$ I paid for. I do however understand that Burton products are a bit on the expensive side when full price.

Like it or not, the company has always been there and will always be... People may not like what Burton as become, but we must thank Jake Burton for what he did!

Simon B.


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## JoeR (Oct 30, 2010)

SimonB said:


> Actually, Burton marketed the 3-D pattern first, then the rest of the industry standardized the 4x4 pattern.


That doesn't matter to me, because when I started riding, both patterns were established, so I faced a choice between a one-company system and an industrywide (minus one company) system. The fact that Burton was isolated, not why it was isolated, made the difference.


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## DoubleT77 (Nov 8, 2010)

Same as others...I don't hate Burton products however I find it expensive for what you get. I also don't like how the binding set up is different from everyone else. Basically I like some of their outerwear and socks however I would not consider them for a board unless it was over 50% off.


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## crimsonfox (Jan 18, 2011)

Brand recognition is what every large company strives for. Brand recognition drives consumerism. Burton is very recognizable, which people often mistake for superiority of their products. 

However, in the past, much of their mid-range product, i.e., the affordable stuff, was not exactly cutting edge in terms of the technology and a quality build.

Often, I encounter less experienced riders who are unwilling to consider anything other than Burton for their riding needs, because the perception is that Burton makes a superior product, based on brand recognition. 

My first snowboard was a Burton something. I got it for Xmas in 1997. At this point, I was a beginner and I was terrible. I ended up in the trees one day and I clipped the tail of my snowboard on a tree. It resulted in a cracked tail and an unrideable snowboard. We returned the board to the shop and the manager exchanged the board for a K2, which I had for many years, until it was stolen when my apartment was robbed in 2000. I really liked that K2.

This was my first experience with a cracked tail. Last year, I had a friend purchase a Burton Malolo. A couple of days after getting the board, she washed out on the tail edge and it cracked the tail. Burton did replace the board under warranty, so she was a happy camper. However, it brought back bad memories of my first snowboard.


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## mbesp (Jan 30, 2009)

I road a Burton canyon for quite a while. It held up just fine. I have it still actually and it still looks pretty solid.

I haven't had a Burton since though. just something about the board didn't work for me. Probably had something to do with the board being the wrong size haha. Oh well.



I like having boards you almost never see out there. So far Capitas have been doing that for me plus I have bigger feet and some of the Capita boards run wider so I don't have to ride super wide boards.


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## Phenom (Dec 15, 2007)

Regardless of whatever someone tells you, people hate on burton products because it's the go-to brand for the noobs due to its popularity. The haters can claim it's because of their revenue, how commercialized they've become, their out sourcing, or whatever other excuses they can dig up, but that's bullshit. In the end, it's the refusal to associate with anything a noob might do.


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## george_4116 (Dec 11, 2010)

Well, I do appreciate all the civilized responses. I see most of the arguments based as valid and true. Thanks for participating and answering my question. 

I am glad to see we can still have opinions without having to argue like seventh graders (no offense to 7th graders, but you know what I mean).

Keep 'em comming.


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## HoboMaster (May 16, 2010)

Ahhhh, not another one of these threads.


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## george_4116 (Dec 11, 2010)

If you don't want to participate, there are plenty other threads for you to offer your valuable opinions on. Thanks.


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## HoboMaster (May 16, 2010)

george_4116 said:


> If you don't want to participate, there are plenty other threads for you to offer your valuable opinions on. Thanks.


I've heard this retort many times, and then subsequently watched the thread turn into a flame-a-saurus-rex. I will leave now.


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## george_4116 (Dec 11, 2010)

Do not leave if you have something constructive to add, the more the better. The minute it turns into a "flame-a-saurus-rex" I will be the first one to exit left and close this. I know these threads can become interesting since they are based on opinions.


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## killclimbz (Aug 10, 2007)

Actually I am going to be the first to close this thread. Do a search, there have been dozens of threads previous to this one hashing over the same ground. Nothing original here at all.


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