# Advice for keeping stable in the air



## Guest (Mar 3, 2008)

This weekend I finally decided to really try the jumps. I've done some little 1-3 footers and more or less just riding off them at good speed (with no ollies). Yesterday I hit the terrain park that had anywhere from 3' jumps (at the lip compared to ground level) to 7' jumps. Towards the middle of the day I got gutsy and stupid (well I was naive what to expect). I decided to hit one of the 6-7 footers at speed and ollie off the lip (honestly I had no clue how high that would take me). I lifted about another 5' at the peak of my aerial stupidity as I'm told by the group of friends that watched (so we're looking at about 11-12' from ground level). Fortunately there was good fresh pow and I didn't get seriously hurt. Here were my thoughts as the whole thing unfolded:

"Wow I'm going pretty damn fast approaching this ramp. Ahh screw it I'm not going to break check. OK..getting closer...getting faster...ooh here comes the lip. Now OLLIE! Oh holy shit I'm way up here...ahhh the board is turning. I'm going to bite ass...* CRASH *...doh that hurt"

Needless to say I couldn't keep the board straight and landed with the board at almost perpendicular to the mountain. Every jump after that (and yes I went easier and smaller) I notice my board has a tendency to rotate counter clockwise (I ride regular). I didn't try any grabs but just went natural off the jump. Any suggestions on how to keep stable while in the air?

Any help to ease the pain of my landings would be appreciated. Thanks


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## Mr. Right (Sep 27, 2007)

Make sure that you are pretty much flat based when approaching the jump and you are comfortable and riding smooth. Before hitting the jump, while taking off and while you are in the air you want to keep your shoulders in line with the board and make sure to hold that position without flailing your arms around etc. Another thing that helps me in the air is to throw a quick tail grab (you don't even have to actually grab it, just touch it). Something about a grab keeps me from making a few mistakes in the air.


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## Guest (Mar 3, 2008)

sounds like you're turning you upper body to face where you're goin. i used to do that too. just do a grab anywhere on the toe side of your board like mr right said. it'll force you not to turn forward. i try to suck my legs up more than i reach down for a grab, pretty sure that's proper form


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## Guest (Mar 3, 2008)

you ride regular and ur board rotated counter clockwise. The reason for this is because I bet if anything you try to look forward with ur whole upper body going off the jump. (your shoulders aren't parallel to your board and instead they follow where your trying to look which is forward) Thus they become angled in the counter clock wise direction, thus causing the counter clockwise spin. You wan't your shoulders parallel to your board when ever your going strait off of a jump, if there not then your body is winded in what ever direction. (this is how spins work I believe, your board has a tendency to always follow your shoulders and wants to stay parallel to them) so your board will rotate where ever your upper body and shoulders tell it to go. The most important thing when strait airing jumps for the first time is to inspect the jump and landing first, once your comfortable with what to expect on the landing, kicker/lip, and distance of the jump from inspection, use your best judgement to gage your speed for the jump required to make the landing. You need to go off it completely strait and relaxed, I wouldn't even ollie if your just learning, I rarely do this unless I feel I'm going to land on the flats or knuckle it and really need the extra air. You just need to be confident and strait, some small carves before you hit the kicker/ramp up to the jump (try not to bleed too much speed off), once ur going up though just stay strait and relaxed. The landing should feel fairly soft if you did everything right, but always be ready to absorb it. If you keep landing on the flats, then you need more speed, you also need to avoid too much speed otherwise you can over shoot.

I'm gonna stop babbling someone else probably knows it better then me, from personal experience though, if you feel like your going fast enough and keep hitting hard on the landing, or not making it to the landing, just go faster, don't let your self do those last second "safety carves" they end up hurting you more. I came up short pretty badly this year while learning jumps a few times and I feel its better to have more speed now, then again I haven't over shot any jumps too bad yet.
(I undershot one real bad though, my back bindings angle got changed like 6 degrees from trying to absorb it lmao)


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## Guest (Mar 3, 2008)

Thanks all for the advice and opinions. It certainly makes sense. I will be going again in a week or two. I totally fell in love with the park this past weekend. Yes I admit, the shinanigans I pulled off on that huge jump (at least to me) was pure stupidity. It was one of those...I was feeling good and nothing could stop me...moments. I was hitting some small stuff fairly easily and decided to try what my buddies where. Yep I shat my pants for sure. Being naive to what was about to happen allowed me erase all fears of the outcome. After that crash I couldn't even get myself or think of trying that jump or one near it's size again during the weekend. However now I'm itching to try again (go figure).

I will try and do a grab (or a simulated one) to help keep me straight. I also agree that I was probably trying to turn my upper body in the direction of the landing (which rotated my board).


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## Guest (Mar 6, 2008)

Thanks Snowolf -
My flexing do you mean crouching? So instead of doing an ollie (for now) I just push equally off both feet (like a jump)? Thanks again for the help.


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## NYCboarder (Jan 26, 2008)

BoarderReborn said:


> This weekend I finally decided to really try the jumps. I've done some little 1-3 footers and more or less just riding off them at good speed (with no ollies). Yesterday I hit the terrain park that had anywhere from 3' jumps (at the lip compared to ground level) to 7' jumps. Towards the middle of the day I got gutsy and stupid (well I was naive what to expect). I decided to hit one of the 6-7 footers at speed and ollie off the lip (honestly I had no clue how high that would take me). I lifted about another 5' at the peak of my aerial stupidity as I'm told by the group of friends that watched (so we're looking at about 11-12' from ground level). Fortunately there was good fresh pow and I didn't get seriously hurt. Here were my thoughts as the whole thing unfolded:
> 
> "Wow I'm going pretty damn fast approaching this ramp. Ahh screw it I'm not going to break check. OK..getting closer...getting faster...ooh here comes the lip. Now OLLIE! Oh holy shit I'm way up here...ahhh the board is turning. I'm going to bite ass...* CRASH *...doh that hurt"
> 
> ...


those bigger jumps you dont have to ollie off of, i learned the hard way. they will still throw you pretty high. im guessing when you ollied you leaned back which caused this. try alittle foward lean with (not to far tho) no ollie.
for the rotation. a grab helps alot. also spot your landing so your head is not turing.. 
REMEMBER your board follows your head


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## PaoloSmythe (Aug 19, 2007)

me and snowolf have an on going disagreement, with regard to ollying on kickers / booters / ramps / jumps etc.....

i am usually content to let him have his say uncontested, but once again i have read this morning a freestyle tutorial which advocates the use of the olly. and indeed, i went off booters last week, and utilised the longitudinal spring of my board.

it is important to note that the use of an ollie is not an 'all or nothing' affair. it is possible to use just a little of your ollie potential. such as when riding the pipe. mr wolf would say no no no noooooo never olly out of a pipe coz you will re enter on the flat section and break bones. conversely i say you should olly at least a little, to be sure you do not catch your board on the top of the pipe (what skaters would call the coping).

and so to maintaining stability in the air. the original poster to me, sounds like he was doing what i did a few times last week to start off with, that being not taking off flat footed. or in other words, the toes lifted a nanosecond before the heels did, hence a pitch to the rearward combined with a shoulder torsion of counter clockwise turn.

to be concise. approach your launch pad with supreme confidence; do not speed check; be equal weighted between back and front foot; be flat footed between heel and toe edges; bent legs (ankles, knees and hips) will absorb the transition; get to the moment of truth and extend your legs but with your front foot getting straighter slightly before the rear; ie olly a bit; get airbourne and then bring your knees tucked up into your body. grab if you like, or if not, just feel free and stable, but compact.

enjoy.


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## Guest (Mar 6, 2008)

I was doing the same thing when I started going off of jumps. I started doing indy grabs to prevent myself from rotating and it worked like a charm. Bring my legs up, make the grab, then extend before the landing so your legs can absorb it. I'd say practice off the 3-5 footers first and work on your technique, then bump it up to the larger jumps. When you are ready to add rotations go back to the 3-5 footers and back up again when you are confident. I'll be fighting with all the nuances next season as my knee surgeon said no tricks this season.


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## Guest (Mar 6, 2008)

Great, this is exactly the problem I have to deal with this problem too on the very big jumps. 
Thanks guys


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## PaoloSmythe (Aug 19, 2007)

mr wolf - you are a lovely man! and i do enjoy diagrams (it is the scientist within that appreciates a picture to be worth a gazillion words)

regarding your carefully chosen diagrams.... the one of kickers is good at portraying your point of view, however the second figure which alleges to suggest the downfall and 'splat' of those ollying off of kickers is rendered bogus by it *not considering the velocity between points E and B*.

i would contend that whilst the forward trajectory is retained thru pumping the transition, the act of ollying at the lip does *nothing to inhibit this forward velocity*, but merely adds to the vertical element of the trajectory to actually facilitate a greater chance of making it to the landing zone by prolonging air time and thus flight distance.

to suggest otherwise is like saying jet planes taking off from an aircraft carrier would end up in the briney if a 'ski ramp' is used. the ramp gives an added upward boost to the aircraft, just as an ollie gives upward boost to the rider. 

to suggest that an effort towards upward motion would compromise the forward momentum is lunacy as these two elements are *not antagonistic *to one another.

with regard to the half pipe scenario. i am glad to see that i finally explained myself adequately, and that for _less than vertical pipes_ at least a bit of pop on take off to avoid hang up is a good thing. 

i am not able to critique the pipes of north america, but 'full pipes' such as that illustrated offer an incredibly small and severe transition for people to aim for on re-entry and so most recreational pipes as seen in resorts in the real world are closer in dimensions to the 'under vert pipe'.

majority rules therefore stand IMO. ollie ollie ollie!!!!!!


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## Phenom (Dec 15, 2007)

PaoloSmythe said:


> mr wolf - you are a lovely man! and i do enjoy diagrams (it is the scientist within that appreciates a picture to be worth a gazillion words)
> 
> regarding your carefully chosen diagrams.... the one of kickers is good at portraying your point of view, however the second figure which alleges to suggest the downfall and 'splat' of those ollying off of kickers is rendered bogus by it *not considering the velocity between points E and B*.
> 
> ...


If you ollie on an inclined surface, than yes, forward motion is compromised. You are pushing perpendicular to the surface that you are on (the ramp), and you're propelled off the ground by it pushing back. The force of the ramp on the rider is up and to the right if you're looking at the diagram. So, it's slight, but ollying does hinder your forward motion.


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## PaoloSmythe (Aug 19, 2007)

this is all good, but with regard to going off booters, the ollie technique promotes knee tuck and thus compact flight; enhances the parabolic curve which, with adequate speed will never cause a fall short scenario. the essence is, with ollie, you proactively jump from kickers. to not ollie, is simply to fall off the end.

it isn't so much a matter of instructor school opinion as simple universal physics. 

but you must stand by those who give you credability, the AASI, the organisation who would prefer (in at least some cases) not to use 'falling leaf' to newbs.


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## Guest (Mar 7, 2008)

it IS physically possible to ollie strait up when on an incline, instead of going perpendicular to the surface. seems like it would be much harder to do, and you wouldn't get as much air as a normal ollie, but is definitely possible. perhaps some people just do this naturally, without even knowing really:dunno: if you did want to do a normal ollie off an incline, you could just get more speed to make up for the distance you'd lose... it could make you a little bit more badass...


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## Mr. Right (Sep 27, 2007)

I think that Paolo and Wolf should get together with a GPS and hit the same jumps at the same speed using an ollie once and not using an ollie once and see who comes out victorious, if that doesn't work we'll dress em up like sumo's and let em slap battle til doomsday :laugh: A agree that if if you ollie of a ramp with a gap to clear it will be more likely to give you a short landing unless you are going faster. I think you are both right, but Paolo is throwing the go faster factor into it. In the same token, if you are going the same speed an ollie isn't going to throw you further when on an incline, but much higher so if you have enough speed to clear it that could give you more time in the air for a spin.


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## Guest (Mar 11, 2008)

wow....snowolf and paolo you guys've got this down to an art...i'm still kinda confused over the whole scientific part on snowboarding... D:?????


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## Guest (Mar 11, 2008)

2 days ago I succeeded in doing my first jump. (2m high takeoff 4/5 meters orso later the landing, what kind of a footer is this btw?)

I succeeded 20 times in doing this jump before going home and I think I have a pretty good idea how one should do it. Personally I prefer thinking off it as the jump is one whole track wich you ride at once, so definatly without ollie-ing. But as I became 'better' I increased my speed before jumping and ollied also a bit, this has the effect that I went higher but I still landed on the same spot as before (due to my higher speed). This slight ollie gave me more time to perform a grab in the air, but it made indeed the landing a bit tougher, due to higher speed and more downward force (as you can see on the nice picture of Snowwolf).

As I see it now. The higher the speed the more you can ollie and once should still land on the same spot. Maybe someone can conform/disagree on this, but this is how I feel about this now (and it conforms both ideas of Paolo and Snowwolf )


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## PaoloSmythe (Aug 19, 2007)

*tony *- it is good that you find both *mr wolf's *and my opinion on this matter to be equally as appropriate as each other.

i guess that is why this discussion is as endless as that of 'pepsi versus coke' (pepsi all the way by the way!) because neither of us are wrong.

having said that tho, and with regard to introducing newbies to flight..... if any distinction can be made, it would be in reference to progression.

i believe one ought to crawl before you try to walk and walk before you try to run. to this end, and baring in mind 'good form' as practiced by those who we would wish to emulate.... i am of the opinion that you start small, perfect your form and then progress.

i hear the arguement that sending a newbie off a 10 foot booter and telling them to ollie is likely to end in acl's popping all over the place...... my solution however, is to delay hitting that booter until the wouldbe flier can ollie off the 5 footers 

truth be told, when hitting a kicker for the first time or whenever a hip jump, i myself do not ollie!

with that in mind and in any event, with EVERY ASPECT OF SNOWBOARDING, i do not believe this to be a _sport _and it certainly is not a science and so it is entirely and *in every way* open to personal preference and interpretation. 

i suggest we all try to find what best works for us ourselves. if you can fly happy _the snowolf way_, i will be content to be wrong.

that is the point of it all; to enjoy.


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## Guest (Mar 13, 2008)

this may have been stated or may be a given, but just visualize it. the only times i'm ever caught with a weird landing is if 1) the landing sucks or 2) i caught considerably more air than expected and in shock i become unstable in the air.

if you maintain the image in your head, there are no real surprises to dirsupt the flow.


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## Guest (Mar 21, 2008)

i dont know, i've found that ollieing(sp?) off a jump gives me more height but not allowing me to travel as far while not ollieing sends me further with less height


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## Mr. Right (Sep 27, 2007)

Fuck Pepsi and Coke, go with RC Cola :cheeky4:


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## Guest (Mar 21, 2008)

i'm going to echo the staying over your board, but also add that you should make sure you know when you're going to impact. this is especially true in the backcountry when mushrooms, cliffs, and kickers are more unpredictable. i ended up with a chipped tooth, stitched up chin, concussion, and a broken jaw that's wired shut for the next two weeks because i was bucked on a landing that jumped up at me. always do a scope out run...even if your in the bc and it means another 30 min hike.


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## Guest (Mar 24, 2008)

I can usually just fly off the small tables and remain balanced doing a grab. Sometimes I do waive my arms a bit, but when I try to pop off the jump or even worse, when I attempt to ollie (which I still can't really do), I end up "rolling up the windows" like mad. In trying to ollie I almost always end up shifting too much weight towards my heel edge. I think it may be because I rotate my shoulders when I shift my weight back on the board. In any case, I need to learn how to properly ollie on flat ground first. I can only get maybe 1 foot of air with my "ollies."


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## Guest (Mar 24, 2008)

I think the best way to hit big or small kickers is to check out the jump before hitting. Thats the only way you can determine the speed and what to do for the landing. Speed has a huge factor in hitting a jump, ollie or not. Some jumps have more of a flatter landing and some steeper. So it all comes down to speed control and stay flat based ollie or pull ur knees up do a grab and stick the landing.



P.S If you're doing 15ft+ kickers for the first time please check your speed and try ghosting someone who is already hitting them.


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## PaoloSmythe (Aug 19, 2007)

always do a_ ride by _on what ever you are looking to use in the park; be it box, rail or booter. check the obstacle itself and the landing zone and think for eg., whether someone could sit around in your exit area and give you a nasty surprise. 'plan for the worst so you might expect the best'.

as for judging the speed for lift off; check out where anybody else going off the thing is starting from and whether they speed check etc. try to mimic their rate of velocity and adjust accordingly.


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