# Help me figure out what’s causing this pain!



## Kenai (Dec 15, 2013)

Samloco said:


> Once I got home, i re-measured my feet (same) but measured the width too, and found them to be 91 (L) and 92 (R) mm wide, which I guess is fairly wide for a girl? Could it be that my feet are too wide for this boot?


I'm pretty sure that is even 2-3mm beyond D width, which would be normal width in a men's size 6/women's size 7. A women's boot is almost definitely too narrow (they are B width) unless your width is just a bunion or something. I don't know of a company that makes a men's size 6 in an E width, but perhaps Wired does. At the very, very least a men's 6 is going to be better for you than a women's 7.

If you've read the sizing threads, you know @Wiredsport is going to want pictures!


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## Samloco (Mar 1, 2017)

Just snapped some pics now... not the prettiest feet I’ve seen by a long shot! Lol. The only men’s boots I could find in a size 6 were the Burton Rulers (not wide) and some thirtytwo Lashed. My husband also checked and found some new Nikes on eBay. Not finding much luck with anything else ? any suggestions between those? And why would it just be my front foot if both my feet are wide? Just because I’m putting more weight on it?


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## MMSlasher (Mar 18, 2016)

Samloco said:


> And why would it just be my front foot if both my feet are wide? Just because I’m putting more weight on it?


Your pictures didn't show up, use imgur.com or some other picture sharing sites link.

Outside of a poor fit, it could be due to your front foot always being strapped in and never getting a chance to relax like the back foot does.


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## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

Going to say its a combo, new boots, steeper riding and wider board...resulting in pain. Potential remedies after market footbeds for better support, keep the lower boa looser, some mods to the liner and ride more. 

I have small wide feet with high insteps...basically women's 7.5 and use women's 7.5 32 focus boas, women's k2 contours, women's atomic backlands so I kind of doubt its a width of boot issue...and sounds more like some footbeds, minor mods, foot conditioning and getting the boots broken in.

see boot faq sticky


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## RayC (Oct 3, 2018)

I have always had footpains (flat feet) since I started. But last year I upgraded to Burton Boots with the Heat Moulding. The first couple rides were about breaking them in and after my muscles got used to snowboarding again, they felt really comfortable. Maybe try a higher quality of boots so that there is no heel lift. I notice when heel lift is present, I try to use other muscles to compensate and it ends up causing more pain.

Not tightening bindings all the way (while still snug) helped as well


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## Samloco (Mar 1, 2017)

http://imgur.com/a/7aFUrYz

Sorry, don’t know why they didn’t show up ? i don’t know, I feel like it has to be at least partly a boot issue, because my feet have been tired and achy before due to heel lift, but never in so much pain in my life like right now in that right foot. Like I had to stop every 5 minutes it was so bad. Maybe I need orthotics, but I don’t know exactly what I’d need. Maybe a supination issue with my right foot? Thanks for all the input so far! Hoping to get this figured out soon. I ordered a pair of 32s in men’s size 6 for now just to try.


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## drblast (Feb 28, 2017)

I get a pain that sounds similar to yours if my binding angles are too shallow, particularly on whatever foot is front-facing.

Once I accidentally put my forward binding on at 12 degrees instead of the usual 15/18 and I felt it immediately on the first run, pain on the outer side of my front foot.


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## freshy (Nov 18, 2009)

I'm pretty certain it's a boot fit issue. Possibly compounded by the bindings, but width of the board I doubt would have much affect. Just curious if your buying those things online or trying them on in a brick and morter?
I've had similar issues where a boot fits great in thr store and walking around but once they are strapped in and riding I could last about 2 runs till I had to break and loosen them till the pain left, and I'd be lucky to last half a day. I've had 2 pairs of boots do this when I strayed from the brand I've rocking since the 90's because I just wanted to try other stuff. Lesson learned, I'm sticking with Northwaves from now on.
My big takeaway on boot shopping is to not have a set idea on what you think you want, except maybe stiffness level. Even size will feel totally different across different brands. But eventually after some years or hopefully sooner you will find a boot that is comfortable and fits good. Stick to that brand when you find it. 

Personally I cannot follow Wired's guide to the millimetre because if I don't have my wiggle room and can't separate my toes a bit I feel tortured, even toe caps and heat molding are not enough. If I were an Olympic athlete and only needed the boots to be on for a run then able to loosen them, sure the performance advantage of toes all squished up for thay ultra fast response time is fine. But for a whole day of fun riding I'd trade performance for comfort any day. 

Without shelling out a grand+ for boots, boot fitter, foot beds/orthotics you pretty much need to try on every boot you possibly can and you still need a little luck that they will be comfortable after hours of riding. It's super hard to find that perfect combo of boots and bindings that will not give some form of discomfort for a full day of shred. 

Damn I wrote a lot of shit, hope some of it helps.


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

Samloco said:


> Hey all,
> 
> Been lurking on this forum for quite some time after I decided I needed to purchase some new boots. Previously, I had Ride Hera boots, size 8, which did fine for 3 seasons, but I always experienced some sort of heel lift and foot fatigue. Tried out some Salomon Kiana’s (2 days of riding) and K2 Contours (2 days of riding) in size 8, and same issue. After reading Wiredsport’s sizing thread, I sized up my feet and discovered that I should actually be wearing a size 7 (my left foot 23.9, right 23.6). Switched to size 7 K2 Contours and made the terrible decision to wear new boots on a 3 day trip to Whistler. By the second day, my front (right) foot developed a horrible burning aching pain towards the outside ball of the foot, mainly under the last two toes. Almost as if my right foot was “rolling” outwards. The pain got especially worse in steeps and trees where I had to pay extra attention to steering with the front foot. My ankle and outside of my shin, although not in pain, also started to feel like it was being stretched out, if that makes sense. The pain dissipated whenever I stopped boarding or loosened the boas significantly. Oh, and as for heel lift, it had decreased significantly but required that I crank the inner boa down very tight, and that definitely worsened the foot pain. Once I got home, i re-measured my feet (same) but measured the width too, and found them to be 91 (L) and 92 (R) mm wide, which I guess is fairly wide for a girl? Could it be that my feet are too wide for this boot?
> 
> ...


Hi Sam,

You have found your correct Mondopoint size but you have a width issue. Your are Mondopoint 240 which is a Women's 7/Men's 6 in snowboard boots. The trouble is that Women's boots are designed around a B width, Standard Men's boots are designed around a D width but your foot is actually E width. The best answer (although imperfect) for women with wider feet is to opt for a men's boot. If you follow the women's width column (B) below down and see the first size that will match your width...that is not going to be a good option . There is one (only one) boot maker (Salomon) that produces any boots for E width. Sadly those only go down to men's size 7. This is not going to be a great option. So, choosing from imperfect options I would suggest that you start by trying on some Men's standard width size 6 boots. Those will be D width (which is a bit narrow for you but with a heat fit this may work well). In any event these will be two width sizes wider than all of the boots that you mentioned above and will correctly match your Mondopoint length. Please let me know how that goes and we can take it from there.

STOKED!


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

freshy said:


> Personally I cannot follow Wired's guide to the millimetre because if I don't have my wiggle room and can't separate my toes a bit I feel tortured, even toe caps and heat molding are not enough. If I were an Olympic athlete and only needed the boots to be on for a run then able to loosen them, sure the performance advantage of toes all squished up for thay ultra fast response time is fine. But for a whole day of fun riding I'd trade performance for comfort any day.


Hi Fresh,

How close did you end up? Please remind me of your measurements and your current boot size.

STOKED!


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

Samloco said:


> . By the *second day*, my front (right) foot developed a horrible burning aching pain towards the outside ball of the foot, mainly under the last two toes. Almost as if my right foot was “rolling” outwards. The *pain got especially worse in steeps and trees where I had to pay extra attention to steering with the front foot*. My ankle and outside of my shin, although not in pain, also started to feel like it was being stretched out, if that makes sense. The pain *dissipated whenever I stopped boarding or loosened the boas significantly*. Oh, and as for heel lift, it had decreased significantly but required that I *crank the inner boa down very tight*, and that definitely worsened the foot pain.
> 
> On another note, I had just started riding my K2 Wildheart at the beginning of the season, and had used all the previous boots mentioned above with no foot pain issues until the size 7 Contours. However, the 3 days of riding in Whistler was the most intense riding I’ve done this season so far, and because it’s such a wide board, I did notice how much more difficult it was to turn. Could that also contribute as well? I went riding yesterday with my Wildheart and my old Ride boots and still developed that foot pain, although it had only been 2 days in between our Whistler trip, so maybe my foot still needs time to heal.


Agree with Wrath that it could be a combination.

Plus, the wider board requires more effort, it's only your front foot (if width would be the issue, I'd suspect the hind foot having issues too), I'd say it's the additional strain on your fromt foot. 




drblast said:


> I get a pain that sounds similar to yours if my binding angles are too shallow, particularly on whatever foot is front-facing.
> 
> Once I accidentally put my forward binding on at 12 degrees instead of the usual 15/18 and I felt it immediately on the first run, pain on the outer side of my front foot.


Agree. I get the same sensation if front angle is too shallow. OP, try to make the front foot angle a tad bigger. I could imagine that you put more pressure on outer rim of foot in steeps with that wider board to turn it than you were used to so far.

Considering the recommended men's boots... there's give and take. You may find more space width wise, but may run into calve pinching issues, as men's boots are not designed for women's calves, so you may run into a "pest or cholera" choice. As you already have heel lift issues in women's boots, I doubt your ankle is wide, too, and thus will even have more heel lift in a wider men's boot...

In general, I don't like that you mention that you have to crank down the boa very tight to avoid heel lift... cranking is no good and leads to cut off circulation and numbness and pain. So the Contour may be an ill fit to your heel anyway. I have wide feet with high instep qnd narrow heel. Contours didn't work for me at all, had a lot of heel lift in them and the cranking of boa to get better heel hold led to numbness and pain. Ride Cadence offered great heel hold. Maybe try that one. However, try the angle increase, too, as it sounds to be part of the problem, too, as you experience the issue also with boots which were good so far with the new board. But get rid of the cranking.

Good luck!


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## freshy (Nov 18, 2009)

Wiredsport said:


> Hi Fresh,
> 
> How close did you end up? Please remind me of your measurements and your current boot size.
> 
> STOKED!


I don't want to derail OP's thread, my feet are fine. Forget the mm, but ended up with 10 EE, 10.5 Northwaves are perfect. A true EE boot might work in a 10 perhaps?


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

freshy said:


> I don't want to derail OP's thread, my feet are fine. Forget the mm, but ended up with 10 EE, 10.5 Northwaves are perfect. A true EE boot might work in a 10 perhaps?


Hi Fresh,

That is likely. What you described is not the normal experience in correct Mondopoint sizing. Normal is snug but comfortable. Just reading your language makes me think that you were lacking in length or width (with width being the very common culprit). Mondopoint is by definition the manufacturer's suggested foot measurement for that boot. It is intended for all riders (from first day to seasoned pro). The Mondopoint range is only .5 cm (5 mm) per each half size. Mondopoint should be described as the manufacturer saying, "this boot fits foot these foot measurements". If you ever want to explore that a bit further I am happy to have a look. 

STOKED!


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## Donutz (May 12, 2010)

I got something very similar-sounding with some new Binary Boas I bought. Intense pain around the third or fourth toe, except this was happening on my rear foot. I got a second set of Binarys and had exactly the same result. Changed to my Lassos and the pain went away immediately. I've also since ridden in my Focus boots and again, no pain.

I theorize that the Binary boot is just a bit too narrow, plus a curved sole, so that my foot is being squeezed across the widest part and being forced into a shallow U shape. I noticed the pain was far worse when going heelside, but I could reduce it by putting most of the upward force on my big toe instead of across the foot.

On the other hand, returning the boots worked even better.

I'm not sure if heat molding the liners would have helped. At that point, I wasn't really willing to experiment.


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## Samloco (Mar 1, 2017)

drblast said:


> I get a pain that sounds similar to yours if my binding angles are too shallow, particularly on whatever foot is front-facing.
> 
> Once I accidentally put my forward binding on at 12 degrees instead of the usual 15/18 and I felt it immediately on the first run, pain on the outer side of my front foot.


That’s a great idea actually... definitely makes sense since it’s almost like my foot wanting to push outward more. I’ll have to try this Tuesday and see if it helps. Thanks!


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## Samloco (Mar 1, 2017)

freshy said:


> I'm pretty certain it's a boot fit issue. Possibly compounded by the bindings, but width of the board I doubt would have much affect. Just curious if your buying those things online or trying them on in a brick and morter?
> I've had similar issues where a boot fits great in thr store and walking around but once they are strapped in and riding I could last about 2 runs till I had to break and loosen them till the pain left, and I'd be lucky to last half a day. I've had 2 pairs of boots do this when I strayed from the brand I've rocking since the 90's because I just wanted to try other stuff. Lesson learned, I'm sticking with Northwaves from now on.
> My big takeaway on boot shopping is to not have a set idea on what you think you want, except maybe stiffness level. Even size will feel totally different across different brands. But eventually after some years or hopefully sooner you will find a boot that is comfortable and fits good. Stick to that brand when you find it.
> 
> ...


Haha I definitely read all of it, and I really appreciate the help! Yeah I’ve tried on both in store and from online, hopefully I’ll find the right boots for me soon... my husband thinks I’m crazy for trying on multiple boots a week but he hasn’t seen the light like I have from this forum! Just picked up some men’s size 6 32s so we’ll see how they work out. Thanks so much! And no worries about hijacking the thread... I got the help I needed thanks to you all!


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## Samloco (Mar 1, 2017)

Wiredsport said:


> Samloco said:
> 
> 
> > Hey all,
> ...


Thanks for confirming Wired! Appreciate it. I picked up some men’s size 6 thirtytwo boots since that was pretty much all I could find. I’ll let you know how they work out and hopefully I can find the perfect fit!


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## Samloco (Mar 1, 2017)

neni said:


> Samloco said:
> 
> 
> > . By the *second day*, my front (right) foot developed a horrible burning aching pain towards the outside ball of the foot, mainly under the last two toes. Almost as if my right foot was “rolling” outwards. The *pain got especially worse in steeps and trees where I had to pay extra attention to steering with the front foot*. My ankle and outside of my shin, although not in pain, also started to feel like it was being stretched out, if that makes sense. The pain *dissipated whenever I stopped boarding or loosened the boas significantly*. Oh, and as for heel lift, it had decreased significantly but required that I *crank the inner boa down very tight*, and that definitely worsened the foot pain.
> ...


Totally agree, I definitey thought the same with the ill fit of the boot.... there’s no way that the amount of cranking I was doing was ok! I’ll have to try those Rides out, so thank you for the suggestion. I never thought about the calves issue with men’s boots... I do have quite athletic calves so that might be something I need to think about. I do feel that the angle of my front binding could have contributed as well since it feels like my front foot is wanting to push outward more. I’ll try that and see how it goes. Thank you again!!


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## freshy (Nov 18, 2009)

Samloco said:


> Haha I definitely read all of it, and I really appreciate the help! Yeah I’ve tried on both in store and from online, hopefully I’ll find the right boots for me soon... my husband thinks I’m crazy for trying on multiple boots a week but he hasn’t seen the light like I have from this forum! Just picked up some men’s size 6 32s so we’ll see how they work out. Thanks so much! And no worries about hijacking the thread... I got the help I needed thanks to you all!


Yeah this fourm is awesome. Whatever...keep trying them. It will definitely pay off when you find that boot made for your feet. Soon your husband will think your crazy for having 5 boards and you were just getting going with the quiver.


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

Samloco said:


> Totally agree, I definitey thought the same with the ill fit of the boot.... there’s no way that the amount of cranking I was doing was ok! I’ll have to try those Rides out, so thank you for the suggestion. I never thought about the calves issue with men’s boots... I do have quite athletic calves so that might be something I need to think about. I do feel that the angle of my front binding could have contributed as well since it feels like my front foot is wanting to push outward more. I’ll try that and see how it goes. Thank you again!!


One more thing: what bindings do you use? If it's a NOW, it could be worth a try to swap the ankle straps left-right so the wider part shows upwards. I did this today and the difference was quite astonishing. Pressure on wrist went from ouch to comfortable immediately.


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## Samloco (Mar 1, 2017)

So update: I finally got the only men’s size 6 boots in that I could find (32 lashed) and they were super tight in the forefoot! Pretty painful actually, my feet went a little numb too. Went to a shop in ABQ and tried on some Ride Karmyns which surprisingly felt much wider in the forefoot than the 32s. Neni, I tried looking for the Cadences but they didn’t have them. Rode in them on a foot pow day in Santa Fe and they felt great, no foot pain whatsoever. I also increased the angle of my front binding which I honestly think was the key to my problem... so thanks guys!! Only issue is heel hold... I do have smaller ankles, so I’m thinking I just need to add some J bars to the liner, correct? No proper boot fitters here in Albuquerque so I’ll have to do it myself, any tips? You guys are amazing!


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

Samloco said:


> So update: I finally got the only men’s size 6 boots in that I could find (32 lashed) and they were super tight in the forefoot! Pretty painful actually, my feet went a little numb too.


Yeah... I had issues with too little arch and forefoot space with my 32 XLT and MTB, too, but was able to fix this issue with a little mod (https://www.snowboardingforum.com/boots/260151-high-arch-instep-boot-modification.html). However, it's great to hear you found another boot which does fit w/o. 



Samloco said:


> Only issue is heel hold... I do have smaller ankles, so I’m thinking I just need to add some J bars to the liner, correct? No proper boot fitters here in Albuquerque so I’ll have to do it myself, any tips? You guys are amazing!


J bars can go a long way. Had used them to fix heel hold issues with my former Deeluxe men's boots. Check out Angrysnowboarder on YT; there are vids on all types of boot modifications which guide you through the steps.


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## chomps1211 (Mar 30, 2011)

Go to Tognar.com

You might benefit from using a full or modified heel wrap along with the J-Bars. Also,.. Angrysnowboarder.com/boot fitting 101

You can find instructions for placing all those liner modifications there! Good luck!


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