# Carving board with hard boots - Any riders out there?



## Guest (Jul 1, 2010)

I know you guys are rare animals these days...is there anyone out there riding a carving / race board with hard boots?

I used to ride a Burton Asymmetric board years ago and loved it. I am seriously considering buying a set up. 

It looks like most of the "big" companies that used to make those boards like Burton and Rossignol have gotten out of that part of the business. From what I can find Donek, F2 and Collier seem to be the companies out there these days. Does anyone have any feedback on these boards / companies?

Thanks!


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## Suburban Blend (Feb 23, 2008)

*just my 10 cents*

it's too hard to find the gear, when traditional shapes and soft boots do just as good. (if not more versatile)

Just get stiffer soft boots and board with tri-ax with carbon.









I like the flow on a stiffer freestyle shaped carving board, than the jabby-janky carves that the euro set-up brings.


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## BurtonAvenger (Aug 14, 2007)

SnowinDubai? said:


> I know you guys are rare animals these days...is there anyone out there riding a carving / race board with hard boots?
> 
> I used to ride a Burton Asymmetric board years ago and loved it. I am seriously considering buying a set up.
> 
> ...


I think you need to go to the monoskier forum at bomberonline.com


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## Guest (Jul 2, 2010)

bomberonline.com definitely has all the carvers


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## AAA (Feb 2, 2008)

Oh man, what a time to get into alpine snowboards! There's been so much progression in the last few years, which is continuing now. Fifteen to twenty years ago, about 25% of the riders at my local east coast hill were on alpine setups. That percentage faded as terrain parks became the rage. I've seen a resurgence in alpine gear in the last few years as newer designs and materials have come into play. No longer are high performance carving setups limited to super stiff, unforgiving boards. Now, hardboot specific gear can be found tailored from full race, to recreational carving, to all mountain use, and even powder. Boots and bindings as well have advanced and can be found (or adjusted) moderately soft to very stiff. Overall of course, their main intent is to tear up groom in thigh scraping carves, but forgiveness, flexibility, aggressiveness, and intended speed are now viable considerations. The three manufacturers that you mentioned are highly respected. I own a 182 Coiler NSR2 with the titanal construction and love it. In fact, I've sold off everything else except my vintage softie setup that I reserve for sled hill outings with my kids. (Check out Coiler's website, recently updated. Everything is custom order.)

When you first get on an alpine board, it will probably feel awkward at first if you're used to a softie setup. But you'll get the feel for it. Once you start pushing carving carves harder and harder, you're going to be shocked at how well the edge holds and left wondering how on earth it's even possible to be doing what you're doing...which IMO is also why you'll want to buy a board that suits what you "intend" to do instead of what you think your entry level skill is "now". Also, be aware that hard top to bottom carving in hardboot gear is much more physically demanding than loose carving or skidding turns with soft setups. Pulling high G's is the name of the game and screaming thighs come par for the course as you work up to it.

Unfortuantely, with few exceptions, you're not going to walk into a snowboard shop and find alpine gear. You're probably going to find you'll have to buy all your alpine gear online. As already mentioned, Bomber online is a fantastic resource for information and gear in the classifieds. Especially with more modern gear coming into use, slightly older (especially glass construction) boards can be found for a song if budget is a constraint. Bomber, though, just like every message board I've visited, has its share of jackholes vs. insightful enthusiasts and of course contradictory opinions, so you'll have to sift through the wheat and chaff. Read up, read up! Seek out a hard boot instructor if you can. I've been fortunate to have spent a couple of training sessions with Olympic level coaches and take their word for gospel. Enjoy! 

Incidentally, just to make corrections and / or add to some of the above posts, a "monoski" is a ski (not a snowboard) where the feet are locked side by side, as in permanent parallel skiing. "Alpine" snowboards refer to hardboot snowboard setups generally aimed at high performance carving. "Skwal" boards are uber-narrow snowboards where the binding angles are at or approaching 90 degrees...a real fringe sport!


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## NoirX252 (Aug 1, 2009)

I am actually looking for alpine gear, any VERY good setups I can get for around 800 dollars? (I need everything, the board/plates/boots)


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## BurtonAvenger (Aug 14, 2007)

AAA said:


> Oh man, what a time to get into alpine snowboards! There's been so much progression in the last few years, which is continuing now. Fifteen to twenty years ago, about 25% of the riders at my local east coast hill were on alpine setups. That percentage faded as terrain parks became the rage. I've seen a resurgence in alpine gear in the last few years as newer designs and materials have come into play. No longer are high performance carving setups limited to super stiff, unforgiving boards. Now, hardboot specific gear can be found tailored from full race, to recreational carving, to all mountain use, and even powder. Boots and bindings as well have advanced and can be found (or adjusted) moderately soft to very stiff. Overall of course, their main intent is to tear up groom in thigh scraping carves, but forgiveness, flexibility, aggressiveness, and intended speed are now viable considerations. The three manufacturers that you mentioned are highly respected. I own a 182 Coiler NSR2 with the titanal construction and love it. In fact, I've sold off everything else except my vintage softie setup that I reserve for sled hill outings with my kids. (Check out Coiler's website, recently updated. Everything is custom order.)
> 
> When you first get on an alpine board, it will probably feel awkward at first if you're used to a softie setup. But you'll get the feel for it. Once you start pushing carving carves harder and harder, you're going to be shocked at how well the edge holds and left wondering how on earth it's even possible to be doing what you're doing...which IMO is also why you'll want to buy a board that suits what you "intend" to do instead of what you think your entry level skill is "now". Also, be aware that hard top to bottom carving in hardboot gear is much more physically demanding than loose carving or skidding turns with soft setups. Pulling high G's is the name of the game and screaming thighs come par for the course as you work up to it.
> 
> ...


Excuse me sir but your ski is stuck together.


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## AAA (Feb 2, 2008)

Noir, $800 is perfectly reasonable to get you into alpine. Properly fitted boots are the most critical component and the hardest to find. Good used boots can be found for $100, and new for $400 or $500. Used Bomber TD2 bindings can be found for $150 to $200. That leaves a wide range left for a variety of boards in the $100 to $500 range including glass boards and perhaps some metal composites. 

Get the boots first. They need to fit very snug. You should have 1 finger that fits between your heel and the bare shell without the liner. The fit will initially be crazy tight until the liner begins to pack out. But any more (like 2 fingers) will have your feet feeling like they're flopping around at higher speeds and you'll get into heel lift issues (to a degree, depending on how far you want to take it). A "fix" of thicker socks or tighter ratcheting will lead to other issues. 

Get bindings next and spend what's left on a board. All of that is probably the opposite of where you want to start, but true none-the-less.

Burton...what?:dunno:


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## Snowfox (Dec 26, 2009)

AAA said:


> Burton...what?:dunno:


Haha, I don't think he's the biggest fan of you guys from what I've read on his blog. 

But to be honest, I think it's (or at least looks) like a pretty awesome ride to the bottom of the mountain. I don't have the money (or the enthusiasm) to switch over to hard boots, but I do admit that I'm impressed.


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## Guest (Jul 6, 2010)

I have been emailing back and forth with the guys at Donek. The only thing holding me back is that I ride mostly indoors here in Dubai and it is kind of a waste to ride a set up like this on such limiting terrain. On the other hand the couple weeks a year a spend on a real mountain would be a real blast. What should I do???? lol.


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## BurtonAvenger (Aug 14, 2007)

Buy a real snowboard and not a monoski.


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## NWBoarder (Jan 10, 2010)

Snowolf, that shit is HILARIOUS! :laugh:


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## RVM (Jan 31, 2007)

You'll have to excuse BA. He's an elitist when it comes to snowboarding.


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## AAA (Feb 2, 2008)

Dubai, Oh wow, I didn't realize that was an actual moniker for your locale. From the photos I've seen of that place, the runs look short and pretty flat. GS boards are definitely out since you won't get them up to speed to really perform there. I'd suggest something from the high 150's to perhaps the low 170's would work in length, with a turny sidecut somewhere between 9 to 12m to make the most of that place. Good start getting in touch with Donek. Any of the custom builders will be able to guide you into the right board. Bruce at Coiler makes his VSR in some short radius configurations, as well. If you intend to hit actual mountains, you might want to choose something that is balanced for both conditions. Do check out Bomber as well. Way less garbage than I've seen in this thread and you seldom feel like you're talking over some kid screaming for attention in the supermarket.


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