# Woes of a Noob... TLDR



## Donutz (May 12, 2010)

The learning curve for snowboarding is steep and filled with booby traps. But it's worth it. You'll find out.

And yeah, you got a douche instructor.


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## blunted_nose (Apr 26, 2012)

Its def sucks to start snowboarding, but imagine, in 4 or 5 weeks you'll be much better, you can start enjoying the bc pow and doing tricks while cutting skiers of at mach 10. its worth it, just keep it up.


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## atr3yu (Feb 15, 2012)

Yeah, there are some days I have where I am on my ass all day and I am like why the fuck am I doing this. Then I got a day on Sunday where the snow was deep there was lots of it and I just spent the day surfing in the trees. I even dropped of a 7 foot ish cliff once after going past it like 10 times... It was an epic day.

Also yes, sounds like you had a retard instructor. I had a ok one my first 2 lessons, then I got a dude named Jimmy at WH2O and he was great. Corrected my shit turns and really instilled confidence in my riding. There are great instructors out there, just ask not to have that guy next time and maybe you will get lucky!

If you make it down south at all this season hit me up and we can kill White Water!


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## Snow Hound (Jul 21, 2012)

Ah man, I certainly feel your pain. I learnt at 30 and busted up my ankle good in my first week. It was 24 months before I could face it again. Now I'm like a cheap whore on a meth pipe, I just can't get enough of that shit. It will come soon enough and youll be better than me by season end.
Look on the bright side, you live in B.C. - I get about 20 days per year and dream about one day making it to B.C before my current improvement/age vector starts heading south.


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## OldDog (Oct 7, 2012)

Thanks for all the commiseration...

I was just thinking (OK obsessing) over my next play. How long do I rest the ankle before I try again? I'm going to say at least 2 - 3 more days. As soon as I can strap in and carpet surf without pain I'm heading back up to the mountain.

When I do, then what? Do I take another lesson and waste another $60/hr wanting to use my board to bash someone's head in?

Do I stay on the bunny hill until I am much more confident? What techniques should I be practicing? The 150' rope tow doesn't give you a whole lot of room to practice much. Especially with kids and learners like me strewn all about.

I've read a bit about pivot turns (like in this vid) and I've seen mixed messages from the same people. Is it a valid technique, just for moguls, or totally stupid and noobish? It makes sense to me and I think if I practiced it a bit on the bunny hill and the one green groomed run at Shames (that would be a blue anywhere else) it would help me with my confidence and I could gradually increase my speed. As it is now I am only comfortable on my toe edge and my basic skidded turns aren't keeping my speed under control. I'm braking too hard on my heel and skidding out every time I hit a steeper section. That, or sideslipping until my thighs are on fire. :dunno:

I have two basic problems. I need to be more confident leaning downhill on my heel edge and I'm not confident because the terrain I have to ride is steep and uneven. Hence I need a better way to control speed and generate confidence on intermediate to advanced terrain (cuz that's all there is at Shames)

Thoughts?


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## poutanen (Dec 22, 2011)

OldDog said:


> As it is now I am only comfortable on my toe edge and my basic skidded turns aren't keeping my speed under control. I'm braking too hard on my heel and skidding out every time I hit a steeper section. That, or sideslipping until my thighs are on fire.


That video's not bad, that's a good way to get down steeper terrain and keep your speed in check. If you're current turns aren't controlling your speed enough, you need to work on completing the turn. In other words stay in the turn longer until you're moving perpendicular to the slope, then start your next turn and do the same thing. As a noob you shouldn't really work on linking turns yet, work on each aspect and you need a second to think about what worked and what didn't in the last turn. So turn heelside, and turn enough that all your downward progress stops, then think about your toeside turn, execute it, and again turn enough that you're going completely perpendicular to the slope.

I'm hoping you went and complained to the resort about your instructor. How can the resort fix a problem they don't know about? My GF has had about 5 lessons now over the years and each one has brought her past the next plateau...


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## blunted_nose (Apr 26, 2012)

Go to the top of mountain and go to the hardest route, then try to get down without falling. Repeat. Before you know it, the blue's will feel slow and like shit. This will force you to use your body to control the snowboard without any technique. Or you can go in steps and learn the right way.


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## OldDog (Oct 7, 2012)

poutanen said:


> That video's not bad, that's a good way to get down steeper terrain and keep your speed in check. If you're current turns aren't controlling your speed enough, you need to work on completing the turn. In other words stay in the turn longer until you're moving perpendicular to the slope, then start your next turn and do the same thing. As a noob you shouldn't really work on linking turns yet, work on each aspect and you need a second to think about what worked and what didn't in the last turn. So turn heelside, and turn enough that all your downward progress stops, then think about your toeside turn, execute it, and again turn enough that you're going completely perpendicular to the slope.
> 
> I'm hoping you went and complained to the resort about your instructor. How can the resort fix a problem they don't know about? My GF has had about 5 lessons now over the years and each one has brought her past the next plateau...


Yeah I know what you're saying about completing the turn and maybe even turning slighting back uphill before switching edges. Unfortunately I don't think you understand the kind of steep uneven terrain with drops and washes I'm dealing with (yes on the only groomed beginner run on the mountain). I can do just what you describe (or try to anyway) for the first half of the run. Then it gets steep and I'm reduced to side-slipping or skidding out and sliding on my ass. Either way it sucks.

As for complaining, no I didn't. I thought about it. But I kind of doubt anybody would give a shit. The mountain is really pretty half-assed. It's run by a coop who is leasing it from the owners to keep it open. And that was supposedly their "best snowboard instructor". Kind of makes me leery of taking yet another shitty lesson.


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## snowklinger (Aug 30, 2011)

karma's a bitch.


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## OldDog (Oct 7, 2012)

poutanen said:


> That video's not bad, that's a good way to get down steeper terrain and keep your speed in check.


Just watched essentially the exact same pivot technique in the SA intermediate vid. Can't stand on my ankle and twist like that yet, but hoping for boxing day to give it another try. I think I'll practice pivot turns on the bunny hill a few times to get more comfortable and then head back up the mountain.

I'll practice dropping low to un-weight my board while pivoting on my front foot to make really quick skidded turns without having to traverse as far or have the speed to do something more "dynamic" or flowing. It seems like the next logical step given the terrain I have to contend with and my resources as far as learning go.

Still contemplating sending a modified version of that rant about the shitty instructor to the Coop GM. Not sure what purpose it would serve. The last thing I want is for someone to lose their job. Not that they would can him over one complaint. Then again, if they have had others maybe he deserves to be canned? :dunno:


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## TorpedoVegas (Dec 25, 2011)

That instructors job is to teach the average beginner (more often than not children), not a 37 year old with no experience and a season pass, who's on a mission to become an expert rider in 20 days or less, and obviously spends wayyyy too much time on the internet, pouring over every tiny technical detail of snowboarding dynamics. 

I almost feel sorry for the instructor. I really can't believe you'd sign up for a lesson in the first place. You need to teach yourself... get on the board and point it down the hill.... repeat. You just don't sound teachable at this point... your "stubborn old guy" ways no longer allow for that sort of thing, more along sir.


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## Ocho (Mar 13, 2011)

OldDog said:


> Still contemplating sending a modified version of that rant about the shitty instructor to the Coop GM. Not sure what purpose it would serve. The last thing I want is for someone to lose their job. Not that they would can him over one complaint. Then again, if they have had others maybe he deserves to be canned? :dunno:


I would. Only because it may benefit others in the future. The instructor might just be so comfortable in his position and slacking a bit. Consider someone brand new - without any research, etc of snowboarding - gets a lesson from this guy and either calls it quits on snowboarding forever or learns something an incorrect way. His shitty instruction serves no one.

Mention in the letter that you don't intend for him to lose his job, but that it did make you debate returning to the hill for another lesson. Revenue matters to businesses, as (should) quality service. Besides, you spent good money on something that didn't meet your expectations.

I'm in a sort of service related business. I'd MUCH rather know that my clients are satisfied, or even if they're not. Constructive criticism makes me better at what I do, keeps me sharp, etc, which brings exposure to new clients. It's a win/win.


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## Grizz (Nov 10, 2008)

OldDog said:


> Still contemplating sending a modified version of that rant about the shitty instructor to the Coop GM. Not sure what purpose it would serve. The last thing I want is for someone to lose their job. Not that they would can him over one complaint. Then again, if they have had others maybe he deserves to be canned?


Don't modify it, just send it, along with a link to this thread. The guy was a douche. A ski school manager at most areas would comp you a lesson, probably with one of their better instructors. Other than in his own mind I doubt this guy was. Ask for a level III or IV.

Be open with what you are looking for from a lesson with your next instructor. Be very specific with what you want to achieve. If the next instructor is any good it will allow you to have a lesson custom fit to your needs, which is the whole point of a private.


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## OldDog (Oct 7, 2012)

Grizz said:


> Be open with what you are looking for from a lesson with your next instructor. Be very specific with what you want to achieve. If the next instructor is any good it will allow you to have a lesson custom fit to your needs, which is the whole point of a private.


That was kind of my take on it. If I have my own gear, my setup looks gtg, and I'm strapping in standing up I would think you would tailor the lesson to fit my needs. Maybe skip the whole "this is a snowboard" and "now sit down to strap in". That may also include not talking to me like I'm 10 years old.

My balance on the board was good, I rode the rope tow up with no issues, etc. I just need some basics on edge control and turning. Also, given the lack of basic terrain at Shames it might be a good idea to work on techniques for handling steeper sections other than side-slipping. Most importantly, when I am struggling and not seeing results correct my technique or make some kind of constructive suggestion. Don't just say "that's OK buddy" over and over again.

Thanks for the reply, think I will send this on to the mountain.


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## Grizz (Nov 10, 2008)

TorpedoVegas said:


> That instructors job is to teach the average beginner (more often than not children), not a 37 year old with no experience and a season pass, who's on a mission to become an expert rider in 20 days or less...


That instructors job is to teach anyone that shows up to take a lesson. Age doesn't factor into it.

A 37 year old with no experience, but a season pass and their own gear sounds like a motivated individual to me. In theory kind of an ideal first time student particularly if they have some athletic ability.

Navigating Black level terrain with linked turns should be no problem for most people in 20 days....with a little coaching help.


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## NorthCoastRider (Nov 19, 2012)

Shames is my main hill and the runs are mostly blues off the chair; stick to that for now. You have to take the t bar to the blacks. The runs get packed down this time of year so I usually ride in the trees or off the edge of the groomers. My seven year old likes the run straight down from the chair.

My 5 year old just had a lesson at Hudson Bay Mountain and seemed to learn quite a bit. I like that hill a lot! Dry powder and LOTS of it. The blues and greens are wide with rollers to check speed (or launch off).

When I first started I went up to Sunshine and pointed her down. Going down was easy, stopping was the learning curve. Got a few pointers from my Bro in law and I progressed from there. Now I can't wait for each weekend when I can ride.


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## dshann (Nov 25, 2012)

Learning to snowboard is all about confidence. You can either stay at the stage where you are at for another year if you have no confidence, or you can begin to shred in a week with confidence. YOU WILL FALL, you will get hurt, but it is all a learning progress. You learn your style, what to do and what not to do. You will be scared once you take it to the next notch, just go for it.

And if you are not taking a lesson, try to do the exact same as a good boarder (How I learned).


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## OldDog (Oct 7, 2012)

NorthCoastRider said:


> Shames is my main hill and the runs are mostly blues off the chair; stick to that for now. You have to take the t bar to the blacks. The runs get packed down this time of year so I usually ride in the trees or off the edge of the groomers. My seven year old likes the run straight down from the chair.
> 
> My 5 year old just had a lesson at Hudson Bay Mountain and seemed to learn quite a bit. I like that hill a lot! Dry powder and LOTS of it. The blues and greens are wide with rollers to check speed (or launch off).
> 
> When I first started I went up to Sunshine and pointed her down. Going down was easy, stopping was the learning curve. Got a few pointers from my Bro in law and I progressed from there. Now I can't wait for each weekend when I can ride.


I've had a lot of people tell me Shames is a bitch for learning and I that Hudson has much better beginner terrain, more consistent snow conditions, and longer runs. Problem is the 3 hour hike each way. That's a long way to go by yourself for some snowboarding lessons.

Not to mention the season pass I bought for Shames. I don't think my wife would understand the "I know I can go to Shames on my pass, but Hudson is mo'betta" argument...


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## NorthCoastRider (Nov 19, 2012)

My kids learned at Shames; I'm sure you can too. 

Some advice I got from an instructor when my kids were in lessons was that at the early stage of learning side slipping was ok as long as they were making is down the mountain and having fun. It probably applies to adults as well.

Don't be hating on Shames though, we are very lucky to still have that mountain open.:yahoo:


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## OldDog (Oct 7, 2012)

NorthCoastRider said:


> My kids learned at Shames; I'm sure you can too.
> 
> Some advice I got from an instructor when my kids were in lessons was that at the early stage of learning side slipping was ok as long as they were making is down the mountain and having fun. It probably applies to adults as well.
> 
> Don't be hating on Shames though, we are very lucky to still have that mountain open.:yahoo:


Side slipping sucks! So, yeah not having fun.

Not hating on Shames, just frustrated because I know what to do, I just can't go work on it. It's tough to focus on leaning downhill and putting weight on your lead leg and pivoting when you can't put weight or pivot on your sprained ankle!


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## hktrdr (Apr 3, 2012)

OldDog said:


> First year, went all out and bought all my own gear and a season pass.
> 
> 37 years old
> 195 lbs 5'10"
> ...


Classic case of a douche instructor who cannot teach and an obnoxious student who thinks he knows more than he does and is not listening. Bad combination that...


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## seriouscat (Jan 23, 2012)

OldDog said:


> Just watched essentially the exact same pivot technique in the SA intermediate vid. Can't stand on my ankle and twist like that yet, but hoping for boxing day to give it another try. I think I'll practice pivot turns on the bunny hill a few times to get more comfortable and then head back up the mountain.
> 
> I'll practice dropping low to un-weight my board while pivoting on my front foot to make really quick skidded turns without having to traverse as far or have the speed to do something more "dynamic" or flowing. It seems like the next logical step given the terrain I have to contend with and my resources as far as learning go.


Dude why worry about down unweighting/dynamic movement at this stage? I can tell you first hand trying dynamic turns without properly linking basic turns first just resulted me going really fast without any control. You have to speed check at that point. Down un-weighting is also not an intuitive concept that requires a lot of muscle memory to execute. There's too many steps to do in too little time if you have to think about the all the steps from start to finish. 

If you really want to try for a little more dynamic control, CASI lessons taught using your shoulders slightly to initiate the turn, and anticipate the next turn by rotating your shoulder slightly for next turn before you start the turn movement.

Also Keep an open mind. Even the lv.1 instructors are much better than you at snowboarding. Maybe they just don't have the correct teaching/communication style for you. (Teaching and boarding abilities are not mutually inclusive.) Somethings didn't make sense to me either during the lessons, but just going thru the motions have always helped me with my form. I got more out of a better instructor obviously, but I have never gone away with nothing at all.


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## slyder (Jan 18, 2010)

Since the terrain that most instructors teach is in about the same area. Can you kinda scope in on a class or two and watch the instructor for his 'stlye and technique' of coaching. 
After seeing a Ins that you think is not a douche maybe approach him and talk to him a bit. Get his name incase you want to try him. Ask him how he goes about teaching an adult, kind of a mini interview before hiring him to help you.

Almost sounds like you should start over a little. Lock in the basic of getting your weight forward and using your foot/knees to initiate a turn. Build or un-learn some of the bad muscle memory you have now.

Just some thoughts, OH I started at 42 similar physical size. Took me 3 days of riding to become beginner proficient and a busted ass (tailbone) pain as I didn't know how to fall properly and if I did things happen fast not sure I would have been able too.


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## ARSENALFAN (Apr 16, 2012)

You need to find a friend on the hill that is willing to spend some time with you for free. I love teaching newbies and have alot of patience for it. I have taught 3 people how to ride and its very satisfying. I didn't take any lessons, I just had a buddy who was willing to spend the better part of a day encouraging me and giving me some instruction. Thanks be to god it wasn't that grumpy TorpedoVegas who I ride with now :laugh:


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## OldDog (Oct 7, 2012)

seriouscat said:


> Dude why worry about down unweighting/dynamic movement at this stage? I can tell you first hand trying dynamic turns without properly linking basic turns first just resulted me going really fast without any control. You have to speed check at that point. Down un-weighting is also not an intuitive concept that requires a lot of muscle memory to execute. There's too many steps to do in too little time if you have to think about the all the steps from start to finish.


Did you watch the snow professor vid? What I'm talking about are basic pivot turns as opposed to side slipping to deal with steeper terrain where I don't have the room and it is too steep for my noobish wide-ass linked turns.

It doesn't look or "feel" particularly difficult or counter-intuitive to me. At least not in the living room. 

I need a faster way to bleed speed and deal with steep and uneven terrain (all there is at Shames). Also, side slipping as I mentioned sucks. Not just because it looks stupid (I don't really care), but because I can't stay on my heel edge that long without burning out my legs. We are talking like the last 3rd of the run or more.



slyder said:


> Since the terrain that most instructors teach is in about the same area. Can you kinda scope in on a class or two and watch the instructor for his 'stlye and technique' of coaching.
> After seeing a Ins that you think is not a douche maybe approach him and talk to him a bit. Get his name incase you want to try him. Ask him how he goes about teaching an adult, kind of a mini interview before hiring him to help you.


I don't think you guys get how tiny this "resort" is. There are only a handful of instructors/rental techs/cat operators (for the one snow cat) available. And this was "supposedly" their best snowboard instructor.

I emailed the office about my "experience" and we'll see what comes of it.



ARSENALFAN said:


> You need to find a friend on the hill that is willing to spend some time with you for free. I love teaching newbies and have alot of patience for it. I have taught 3 people how to ride and its very satisfying. I didn't take any lessons, I just had a buddy who was willing to spend the better part of a day encouraging me and giving me some instruction. Thanks be to god it wasn't that grumpy TorpedoVegas who I ride with now :laugh:


I actually have 3 friends to ride with. One of them is only a little better than me. He has been a few times over the years, but just bought a board last year and went 3 or 4 times. Another guy who has been riding for 3 years but is self taught and incapable of helping me. However, I do know a girl who has offered to ride with me who was sponsored when she was younger and used to teach at a resort back East. She offered to ride switch while working with me. I just haven't had a chance to ride with her thanks to my injury. Hopefully in the next couple of days I'll feel up to it.

Thanks for all the replies and I hope everyone got snow for Christmas!...


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## SnowRock (Feb 28, 2011)

Torpedo was a bit harsh and by no means would I discredit any of the great information snowwolf and others share on riding techniques and learning.... But I think you might have a little too much information floating around in your noggin. 

I applaud you for doing your homework when getting into the sport and I agree you don't necessarily want to develop bad habits but there is something to be said for simply getting down the mountain without worrying about the specific types of techniques you are using. Simply try to get comfortable on the snow bad habits or not and then grow/work in technique from there. 

Maybe that is terrible advice but I just cant imagine learning to ride with all that jargon floating around my head.


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## Donutz (May 12, 2010)

True, at some point you have to just start training your muscle memory. I guess all the book-learning will at least tell you what bad habits to avoid.


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## slyder (Jan 18, 2010)

Ya I have no clue about your resort or instructors many members are just giving general advice on how to advance. 
If you are struggling that bad or the resort isn't to your comfort level, you may want to take that trip to the other resort you mentioned. 
Do you have a large sledding hill in your city. Not just that golf course, one where you can get some momentum. We have a great sled hill, never used it to learn snowboarding other then when the kids had the cheapy boards that aren't real snowboards. I have seen many kids riding it. Good riders and begineers, this might be a good free option.


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## OldDog (Oct 7, 2012)

slyder said:


> Ya I have no clue about your resort or instructors many members are just giving general advice on how to advance.
> If you are struggling that bad or the resort isn't to your comfort level, you may want to take that trip to the other resort you mentioned.
> Do you have a large sledding hill in your city. Not just that golf course, one where you can get some momentum. We have a great sled hill, never used it to learn snowboarding other then when the kids had the cheapy boards that aren't real snowboards. I have seen many kids riding it. Good riders and begineers, this might be a good free option.


I'll be fine. I'm just pissed cuz my ankle is fucked and I can't ride. That and I wasted a bill on useless lessons.

Hoping to be riding in the next couple of days.


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## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

dog,
rest your ankle, ice/warm/ice/warm, range of motion and keep the swelling down. Ankle injuries is not taken care of can come back and haunt you for a looong time.

some days just suck....ride to ride another day and don't waste your self for a season. Yesterday...day 6 of season 10-11, age 54, I sucked...my front shin muscle was killing me, could not get any power for toeside and my body was not able to handle only 1 days rest...rode on sat. my mind said i can do more but my body was not into it.

all instructors are not created equal nor are a good match nor may have the skills to help you learn.

don't worry about the terrain of the hill some are more mellow and some are steep...baker is a bitch to learn on...i thought the bunny hill was steep til a bud took me up a couple of double blacks....it gave me perspective and was then able to attack the bunny hill...just a matter of mental perspective.

as for calf burn, part is technique, part is lactic acid/hydration, muscle strength/conditioning. I still have calf burn for 2-3 runs then it goes away.

it sounds like the instructor was too much ego into being an instructor...instead of helping you to learn


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## surfinsnow (Feb 4, 2010)

SnowRock said:


> Torpedo was a bit harsh and by no means would I discredit any of the great information snowwolf and others share on riding techniques and learning.... But I think you might have a little too much information floating around in your noggin.
> 
> I applaud you for doing your homework when getting into the sport and I agree you don't necessarily want to develop bad habits but there is something to be said for simply getting down the mountain without worrying about the specific types of techniques you are using. Simply try to get comfortable on the snow bad habits or not and then grow/work in technique from there.
> 
> Maybe that is terrible advice but I just cant imagine learning to ride with all that jargon floating around my head.


I was thinking the same thing. I didn't learn 'til I was 40. I had surfed my whole life, so I thought this would be "easy." Still, I took a lesson, mainly because the resort (Okemo) offered a free ticket to my friend for bringing me in. I didn't know shit about snowboarding, and I'm glad. The op does seem to have way over-studied before he went for his lesson. 

My first lesson was okay. They only gave a lower-mountain lift ticket, so I couldn't do too much damage. After the lesson was over, they let us go. All I can remember is falling constantly, and HARD. I went home and couldn't move for three days. Even rolling over in bed was difficult. But I went out the next weekend, this time to Mt. Snow. No lesson. My friend (a skier his whole life) thought I was doing fine. I did a couple of runs on the bunny, and he said "Come on, let's go!" and took me to the top. LOL! It took me 45 minutes to get down Mountain Road, falling every 100 yards. A couple of times, falling hard enough to wonder if I'd get back up. "What the f*ck am I doing?!" I thought.

Talked to another friend who gave me the old snowboard rule: always go at least three times. The first two will suck. The third one, it will all click.

We went back to Okemo. Sure enough, we went to the top on the first run, I took off and it felt like I knew what I was doing! I still fell, and falling was pretty much part of the deal for the first couple of seasons, but at least I knew HOW to fall without hurting myself.

I rode enough so that last year I missed the entire season. Between riding and beach volleyball, I tore my metatarsal tendon and chipped my ankle bone. Needed major foot surgery, on my back for weeks, on crutches and PT for six months. Finally got back on the mountain a couple of weeks ago at Stowe, several pounds heavier due to lack of activity, but we went right to the top again, and despite a bit of nervousness (do I still know how to do this?) had a great time. 

Just empty your head and feel the board under your feet. I can't imagine having to "think" about the turns I'm going to make. Once you know how to lift one foot, twist the other, swing your hips around, etc, just ride. Practice. Practice, then practice some more. Maybe take another lesson, but keep going out. Your foot will heal. Your over thinking it all is what has to get better. Ooohhhhhhhhmmmmm.


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## OldDog (Oct 7, 2012)

wrathfuldeity said:


> dog,
> rest your ankle, ice/warm/ice/warm, range of motion and keep the swelling down. Ankle injuries is not taken care of can come back and haunt you for a looong time.
> 
> some days just suck....ride to ride another day and don't waste your self for a season. Yesterday...day 6 of season 10-11, age 54, I sucked...my front shin muscle was killing me, could not get any power for toeside and my body was not able to handle only 1 days rest...rode on sat. my mind said i can do more but my body was not into it.
> ...


Good advice thanks. I've been icing/hot water bottling my ankle and massaging with tiger's balm and working the ROM.

As for the instructor, I just don't think he had any idea what to do with someone who wasn't 10 and could already strap in and straight line a mellow slope. Doesn't make him any less of a douche, but just the way it is.

I honestly could have done just as well by myself I think. What I wanted was someone to correct my mistakes and give me feedback. Unfortunately this tool didn't do that.

When I went back up Saturday I actually negotiated linked turns down the bunny hill for 2 or 3 runs with little or no issue. Almost caught an edge once, but felt it and corrected. I was really focusing on leaning what feels like forward and placing more weight on my lead foot while pointing or turning starting with my shoulder. Still tough to do when your lead ankle is all fucked up.

So, I'll work on pivot turns to deal with the steeper sections and keep practicing. I'm just torqued because I took 2 weeks off work to ride and so far I've got a couple of half days in. I was hoping to get almost half my days this season over these 2 weeks. More than a little disappointing.

Oh and the burn I'm getting isn't so much calf. I'm in pretty good shape and the only problem I have is in my quads in a pretty focused area above my knees when I'm side slipping on heel edge for too long. I don't really side slip on my toe because I like to see where I'm going and I'm way more comfortable on my toe edge so I tend to traverse fine even on the steeper stuff.

The biggest issue I have is that all the runs at Shames converge in one area under the only chair (old school 2 seater) that is a littered with small drops, steep sections, and uneven terrain. I'm not comfortable bombing down it and it's too fucked up for my wide noob turns. That's why I'm going to work on quick sort of "hop" pivot turns to deal with that area and have to side slip less. At least that's the plan at this point. Unless of course someone has some better ideas...?

Thanks all


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## Slush Puppie (Aug 15, 2011)

It's good that you're so keen to learn and have clearly absorbed a lot from this forum but perhaps you need to empty your cup...

Slow down and learn each stage properly before trying to jump to the next. It's the quickest route in the long run. The more solid each foundation, the easier the jump to the next level will be.

If you have good edge control you can get down anything (in a side slip) so stop worrying about the steeps and worry about the basics. Once you have good edge control, there's not much need to crash and hurt yourself. Be in control and use that as your platform to progressing. 

I don't know how steep your area is but I bet it's not actually as steep as you think anyway. Give it a few days/weeks riding and it probably wont seem that steep anymore.

Focus on being balanced and completing nice tidy controlled basic turns that are controlled and not risking further injury.

You will also notice that it's becomes much less physical effort (strain on the legs) once you start to dial in your basic technique too.

And for whoever said it's all about confidence... personally I'd choose competence over confidence anyday. But the confidence will come naturally as you gain competence.

Good luck.

p.s. i'm also 37 and have learned within the last year or so.


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## Ocho (Mar 13, 2011)

Good points made by all who've said you might be over thinking things. This tends to happen when learning something new (physical) as an adult.

I teach adults in another sport - one that I've been doing since I was single digits - and find that it's SO much more difficult for adults to learn _how to feel_. Adults are way in their heads about it. Then the body can't respond to the activity as easily. Frustration ensues.

Get out of your head and allow your body to feel. Then afterwards, you can link the knowledge of your mind to what your body is sensing, to make sense of it all.

Maybe ride with music or do something to distract your brain. If you're already in shape, you may have more innate body wisdom than you realize. But your mind will block that if you let it.

I still get too much in my head when snowboarding, even though I learned as a teenager. When I find myself doing that, I shut down the mind chatter and just allow my body to feel. I ride so much better that way. 

Hope that helps!

Oh and while Tiger Balm and ice are great, check out BioFreeze, too. Love that stuff.


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## luna (Oct 16, 2012)

OldDog said:


> I'll be fine. I'm just pissed cuz my ankle is fucked and I can't ride. That and I wasted a bill on useless lessons.
> 
> Hoping to be riding in the next couple of days.


 Ahhhh my friend it was not a waste. Although you didn't neccesarily learn what you thought you should learn you probably learned more than you thought. Don't be so mad, you learned to find a new instructor and you had a day of riding . And you learned what not to do and what your weak points are. 


I rode with friends and mainly taught myself to ride. My first time out I was not even wearing the right pants(didn't have the extra dough), I was wet and cold and it took me forever to get off the couch the next day. The douche who put my board together had the bindings backwards :what:. Its a journey lol....that was in 2003ish......


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## OldDog (Oct 7, 2012)

OK, with all due respect I obviously need to clarify some things here.

1. I never said fuck-all about carving or dynamic riding other than the instructor was trying to make me copy him and do some "dynamic" turns before he took me up the lift. I'm sure a bunch of my "terminology" is questionable as I'm a noob, but I have no such ideas. What I wanted to try on the steeper narrower uneven sections (where there isn't room for a wide-ass noob turn) was the pivot turns from the Snow Professor vid I posted. I don't think "I've got" anything.

2. I'm not trying to skip steps or avoid practicing the basics. I did everything the instructor asked me to do. With the possible exception of sitting to strap in when I was already strapped in having done it standing. I questioned the falling leaf because I had read on here that is was not a good technique and although it can be used to get you out of a tight spot, it can also be a crutch and limit progression. Then I did it. It's not my fault the moron kept trying to make me ride switch cuz he couldn't understand that I'm not goofy.

3. All I wanted (other than to vent a little) was a suggestion for a "basic" technique other than side slipping to get me through the steeper uneven terrain with drops, washes, and two creek beds at the base of Shames without burning my legs out side slipping and ending up on my ass sliding down like a tard. I am very happy to practice basic skidded turns. In fact, I wish there was a better run to practice on. The bunny hill is a 150' rope tow and the only groomed green run on the mountain ends in the same more intermediate terrain I mentioned above. I could probably stay upright more if I just bombed it, but I am a noob and control is very important in my opinion. Not to mention that it is busy at the base and everyone is funneled back to the only lift there and I don't want to cause an accident or hurt anybody (including myself).

4. I don't give two shits how old the instructor is. A 15 year old girl would be awesome as long as she watched me ride and then pointed out things to work on with bunny hill drills or otherwise. This moron gave me absolutely zero feedback other than "arms higher". Not to mention the fucker was 31 years old. That makes all his bullshit bragging about freestyle coaching and competition all the more ridiculous.

5. I've watched all your videos Snowolf (more than once) along with the SA learn to ride and intermediate vids, and all the Snow Professor vids at least a couple times. The whole reason I wanted a lesson was so someone could watch me do the basic drills and give me feedback to speed my progression/correct my mistakes. As I didn't get any feedback, I'm pretty sure I could have gone through the drills watching the vids on my phone and got just as far and saved myself the $120. That, and I probably wouldn't have rushed up the chair and fucked myself up. I would have probably stayed on the bunny hill the whole fucking day and been better off for it. Just saying.


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## OldDog (Oct 7, 2012)

luna said:


> Ahhhh my friend it was not a waste. Although you didn't neccesarily learn what you thought you should learn you probably learned more than you thought.


How very Zen of you... :bowdown:


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## cocolulu (Jan 21, 2011)

A couple things:

1. The instructor was a douchebag.
2. Not all instructors are the same. Some instructors click with certain students, others have styles that click with others.
3. Don't waste your time, sanity and energy boiling over a 2 hr lesson and $120 (or however much it costs). Learning to snowboard is a long, never-ending road, filled with pain, frustration, stagnation, and eventually triumph. 1 lousy instructor will just end up as a blip on a very long shit list, which could include injuries, board damage, collisions, encounters with asshole riders, or god forbid, crappy snow.
4. You need to learn skidded turns. Those are your brakes. You can't do dynamic linked carved backside 1080 triple whatever... unless you do linked skidded turns first. When my legs burn, I stop along the side, take a break, and enjoy the view. Eventually, things will get easier on your body as you get better.
5. You have to learn a lot more than just speed control to get down a blue or black (with any degree of elegance).
6. There is no basic way of getting down a blue or black run without skidding. If there was, they would be basic runs instead of 'expert' or 'intermediate' runs.
7. If you want to stop skidded turns, you're probably going to be doing either carving or maybe hop turning. Neither of them are simple, and you're probably not going to learn to do them overnight.
8. You're allowed to vent, and I think the nice people on this forum will commiserate. But you won't get any better unless you put it down, and get out there and try again.
9. Try taking lessons again, and if you find a good instructor, request him or her again.
10. Most of the time, when I take a lesson, I don't exit the lesson any better than when I went in. But the instructor gives you a framework of thought, and is usually pretty honest about pointing out errors. They also encourage you to tackle runs that you normally wouldn't do, and provide an environment where it's ok to fail and learn. In the long run, lessons helped.


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## OldDog (Oct 7, 2012)

*This is the reply I received from the GM of Shames yesterday.

Interesting eh?

1. Doesn't address the bragging, lack of professionalism, or general lack of ability to relate to an adult.

2. Is it just me or is the tone a little off for a reply to a customer service issue?

3. Based on what I can find online the AASI stopped teaching the pendulum or falling leaf after 2009. I can't find anything online specifically about this issue related to the CASI. Anybody have an idea?

4. Is it just me, of did this guy just accuse me of crank calling this instructor? Really? Obviously I'm not the only one who wasn't impressed with him, but to accuse me in response to my complaint? Are you fucking kidding me? :dunno:

Oh and I'm supposed to believe this guy watched me out the window or even remembers who the fuck I am? Kind of gotta call bullshit there too.

Anyway, the reply starts here:*

Thank you for your feedback about your lesson with Kris on opening day. Both positive and negative comments are important to us. Having been an instructor myself for over a decade before moving into management, I understand the department very well. Snowboarding is not an easy sport to learn. From my extensive experience, it typically takes three lessons before someone gets the hang of things. 

The first lesson you learn the basics about the board and learn to sideslip on one edge going towards the left or the right (pendulum or falling leaf). This is not only still taught, but an essential skill to master. Side slipping left and right still gets me out of some sticky situations. 

The second lesson, is where you learn the same skills on your opposite edge. 

The third lesson, is when you link both skills into turns; switching from one edge to the other. 

If you come back to the mountain, Oliver Riberdy, our ski school director (CASI Level 4 who certifies other instructors) will gladly go through the CASI manual with you to assure you that Kris followed the regular and normal procedures.

I watched your lesson from the cafeteria window and was very impressed with your progress. Kris your instructor was also impressed, after the lesson he told me he couldn't believe how fast you had progressed. In my opinion you basically progressed more then 3 lessons worth in two hours. It is very rare that a student graduates to the chairlift in their first lesson. 

Kris has also recieved a number of compliments in the last few days; one even asking me to give him a raise because of how great he was with the man's child. 

With that said, I do recognize that you are un-happy, and will gladly give you another lesson. Either myself, or Oliver will give you the lesson to ensure you have the choice in the two most experienced instructors on the mountain. Please contact me directly to confirm details.

On a diferent note, my instructor tells me he recieved a blocked txt to landline message Dec. 26th after midnight. He said the message was very rude, talked about his instructing and threatened his job. I truely hope this was not you. Kris has a wife and kids, that kind of thing in the middle of the night is uncalled for.


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## Slush Puppie (Aug 15, 2011)

I've gotta be honest, that seems like a reasonable and professional response to me.


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## atr3yu (Feb 15, 2012)

Slush Puppie said:


> I've gotta be honest, that seems like a reasonable and professional response to me.


Yeah I have to agree actually from the perspective of someone outside looking in. I am a pretty big dick myself and can usually detect these types of things and not once did I say something like "I want to punch this dude in the dick". I would just take him up on his offer for another lesson when your ankle is all cool and go shred the shit out of something. Just my opinion.


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## Richie67 (Oct 11, 2012)

Woes of a noob? I'd say more like woes of an instructor and manager who has to listen to a yapping little bitch.


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## 2hellnbak (Sep 21, 2012)

Just keep riding. It took me a long time to get to the point I can ride down anything and enjoy it. Probably 2 years getting 50-100 days the first two years. I started when I was 24 years old. I'm a slow learner and I was a terrible skateboarder back in the day, gave it up because concrete doesn't suit my bones or flesch. Don't expect to progress too quickly. If you have friends that are good riders and they are good friends go with them. Follow them but don't try to keep up all the time, stay within your comfort level. Most of my friends had been snowboarding for years before I ever went. They were pretty forgiving. I've never had a snowboard lesson and I think to this day I should still take one or more and ride it switch (because I SUCK at riding switch).

And to your rack issue, get a bag for your board and run the hitch mount :dizzy: it'll keep the crap off your board if you go that route. Besides, if you can ride a bike down a steep incline and snowboard I think you should be able to lift your bike on to the top of your FJ  Just razzin ya. Enjoy


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## Ocho (Mar 13, 2011)

OldDog said:


> *This is the reply I received from the GM of Shames yesterday.
> 
> With that said, I do recognize that you are un-happy, and will gladly give you another lesson. Either myself, or Oliver will give you the lesson to ensure you have the choice in the two most experienced instructors on the mountain. Please contact me directly to confirm details.*


*

I thought that dude Kris said he was the best instructor there.*


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## OldDog (Oct 7, 2012)

EatRideSleep said:


> I thought that dude Kris said he was the best instructor there.


Unless you count the GM and the ski school manager apparently...


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## Chicagoguy (Dec 26, 2012)

OldDog, it sounds to me like the GM is being fair in his response. He's offering you another lesson. Take him up on that when your ankle is better. Although you may not believe him, he probably remembered seeing you since he watched his employee teaching you. Honestly bro, just take it day by day and practice basics. Things are going to click and your going to laugh when you look back at this thread. Life is too short to be pissed off over stupid things. As with any sport, you're going to deal with people you won't like.


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## Zenhugh (Dec 25, 2012)

From the GM's response it doesn't seem like Kris was a total douche. He was probably just teaching you on a set curriculum that has achieved success for many students in learning to become efficient snowboarders which was probably how he was taught to teach. Your frustration in my meek opinion came from him not relating to you directly and tailoring the lesson to where you were at specifically. It sounds like they have a set routine they take all new students through and you can either follow their program which will no doubt help get you off your backside and down the slopes or (which I did) have one lesson from the resort staff and then go it alone. I progressed ok but had so many road blocks. I only really progressed fast when I had some advanced riders be patient enough to take me riding and provide instruction.
You will no doubt become a good boarder as your frustration is a response to how determined you are to advance. I'd take another couple of lessons and then just hit the slopes with your mates (buddies) and that girl you mentioned. 

Don't worry too much about the difficult terrain as when you do go to other mountains you will kill it. For my first year I thought snowboarding was actually iceboarding (coronet peak NZ - They call it concrete peak).

Good luck and let us know how you go.


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