# clarification on carving and turning



## ekb18c (Mar 11, 2013)

First - Are you sure your boots fit correctly? 

Second - There is a difference between skidded turns and carving. Are you making thin lines in the snow or fat lines? Thin lines means you are carving and only using the edges of the snowboard. Fat lines makes you are skidding your turns. 

Stop reading those articles and perhaps book a lesson when you get out on your trip.

Also try a search for carving and skidded turns here on the forum. There is a lot of reading good reading material and some have videos.


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## andyl9063 (Aug 4, 2014)

ekb18c said:


> First - Are you sure your boots fit correctly?
> 
> Second - There is a difference between skidded turns and carving. Are you making thin lines in the snow or fat lines? Thin lines means you are carving and only using the edges of the snowboard. Fat lines makes you are skidding your turns.
> 
> Stop reading those articles and perhaps book a lesson when you get out on your trip.


Can you clarify on the boots part? I'm not sure how to take this. It fits fine according to my feet size...

I think I was doing skidded turns at the beginning , then towards the end of my trip, I was working more on my edge. It was noticeable better.
I want to get better, but also want clarification on what is correct and not correct.


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## ZeMax (Feb 21, 2014)

If you're not using the edge of the board you're doing it wrong 

Get an instructor that actually knows what he's talking about. Instead of forum bro-science


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## andyl9063 (Aug 4, 2014)

so it seems the consensus is riding on edge is the correct form. So is it safe to assume that riding skids and kicking the back is for extreme terrain and moguls?


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## ekb18c (Mar 11, 2013)

How did you get your boots? Did you go to a store and worked with a boot fitter? Did you buy it online and just bought the boot size that you normally wear for sneakers/shoe? 

Do you have any heel lift? Is the back of your foot coming up a little bit on a toe side turn? Perhaps it is and you're using your ankle to compensate for the heel lift? 

Are the tip of your toes touching the boot? Are they curled up a little bit? 

I made a terrible mistake when i first bought my 1st pair of boots. I was 9.5 in sneaker size so i bought 9.5 boots. That was a mistake as I found out that I was actually a size 8 wide after going to a boot fitter. 

So the reason why I asked about your boot size is because i had a boot that was too big and my muscles around my ankle were sore because i was using those muscles to stop heel lift. 

There is a good article by WiredSport here on the forum about boot sizing. 

Also here is a quick video on the difference between carving and skidded turns.


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## andyl9063 (Aug 4, 2014)

ekb18c said:


> How did you get your boots? Did you go to a store and worked with a boot fitter? Did you buy it online and just bought the boot size that you normally wear for sneakers/shoe?
> 
> Do you have any heel lift? Is the back of your foot coming up a little bit on a toe side turn? Perhaps it is and you're using your ankle to compensate for the heel lift?
> 
> ...


hmmm...my shoe size is 9 and I bought a boot size 9. Therefore, perhaps repeating the same mistake you just mentioned. I will have to look at this closely, sounds like the culprit to my main issue.
Reading the article now.


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## f00bar (Mar 6, 2014)

Added to the boot thing not being comfortable at speed will wear you down in a hurry because you are a bit nervous and doing a ton of micro adjustments. Are you nice and smooth and powering through your turns at speed or do you get ankle chatter? Smooth is efficient. Fighting ankle chatter isn't. Correct boot size can help this a ton. But so can working on smooth transitions.


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## deagol (Mar 26, 2014)

I started carving in the early 90's on a Sims Switchblade (horrible board, BTW IMO) so I have some practice with it, but reading what that article said (the first one you paraphrased) made no sense to me. 

I am on the edge all the time, initiate with leaning of body. I can't describe it in words very well, but it's instinct to me. Stiff boots are good. Bent knees will aid in allowing you to absorb lots of violent shocks/vibrations that you may feel at speed. Other than that, practice a lot. 

One reason I don't like riding moguls is that they force me to flex to such a degree that it breaks down the stiffness of my boots and the freeriding performance suffers as a result.


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## chomps1211 (Mar 30, 2011)

If your heel is lifting in your boot when you try to get on your toes,..? Boots don't fit right. Size could still be right, but fit might need fine tuning. Hard to say for sure. If size is right, but fit is off,.. there are things you can do to correct that. C-bars, heel lifts, tongue pads, etc, etc. Tognar.com has all that stuff.
LINK 

If size is wrong? you are probably better off getting new, proper fitting boots rather than trying to fix that with inserts & pads etc. 

If you are getting a lot of heel lift,.. that would likely cause your calves to fatigue quicker. You would need to work that much harder to initiate and hold toe side turns. Skidded or carved.

Same is true if you're riding a wide board when it is not needed for your boot size.


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## andyl9063 (Aug 4, 2014)

chomps1211 said:


> If your heel is lifting in your boot when you try to get on your toes,..? Boots don't fit right. Size could still be right, but fit might need fine tuning. Hard to say for sure. If size is right, but fit is off,.. there are things you can do to correct that. C-bars, heel lifts, tongue pads, etc, etc. Tognar.com has all that stuff.
> LINK
> 
> If size is wrong? you are probably better off getting new, proper fitting boots rather than trying to fix that with inserts & pads etc.
> ...


you guys bring up some interesting points, I will test out the boots and board when I get home.


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## BurtonAvenger (Aug 14, 2007)

Read this an instantly thought, improper fitting boots. You have too much room in the boot and not enough arch/ankle support.


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## powderjunkie (Jun 30, 2015)

andyl9063 said:


> so it seems the consensus is riding on edge is the correct form. So is it safe to assume that riding skids and kicking the back is for extreme terrain and moguls?


Thats generally how i do it. I carve the groomers and rudder/skid the moguls and trees. Carving is nice and fun but its impossible in the confines of a mogul or tree run. Plus.... i may be weird... but i really dont enjoy carving. Kinda boring to me. Id much rather be picking my way through a double black tree run. So i really only ever rudder/skid/or jump turn.


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## Mig Fullbag (Apr 15, 2014)

powderjunkie said:


> Thats generally how i do it. I carve the groomers and rudder/skid the moguls and trees. Carving is nice and fun but its impossible in the confines of a mogul or tree run. Plus.... i may be weird... but i really dont enjoy carving. Kinda boring to me. Id much rather be picking my way through a double black tree run. So i really only ever rudder/skid/or jump turn.


What kind of board are you riding?


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## powderjunkie (Jun 30, 2015)

ride machete, smokin superpark, ns snowtrooper

why?


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## Mig Fullbag (Apr 15, 2014)

andyl9063, in addition to a proper fitting boot, if you intent on focusing on carving, a stiffer boot might also help alleviate foot pain on toeside turns. You can then rely on the upper cuff and tongue of the boot and lean into it. Less pressure on arch, ball and toes.


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## Mig Fullbag (Apr 15, 2014)

powderjunkie said:


> ride machete, smokin superpark, ns snowtrooper
> 
> why?


If you enjoy skidding, slarving and jump turns on steep terrain, you might be a good candidate for boards that have minimal sidecut and were designed for that type of riding, as opposed to boards with a lot of sidecut. Have you heard of Furberg snowboards?


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## powderjunkie (Jun 30, 2015)

never... they pretty good?


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## Mig Fullbag (Apr 15, 2014)

powderjunkie said:


> never... they pretty good?


Never tried them myself, but only read and heard great reviews on them by non-sponsored riders. And the geometry is just plain logical for that type of riding.


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## deagol (Mar 26, 2014)

I rode a Furberg splitboard down a peak in spring conditions last April and didn't love it too much, but YMMV. I have a splitboard partner who owns one and loves it. It may be that it just a while to get used to it?


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## Mig Fullbag (Apr 15, 2014)

deagol said:


> I rode a Furberg splitboard down a peak in spring conditions last April and didn't love it too much, but YMMV. I have a splitboard partner who owns one and loves it. It may be that it just a while to get used to it?


Most people ride boards with under 8.5m sidecuts, so going to something in the 18m range must take some getting used to for sure. They are not for everyone, and for standard riding. But for slarving and jump turns on steep terrain, they seem to make a lot of sense.


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## andyl9063 (Aug 4, 2014)

so i just went to REI by my workplace and had them measure my foot. It's a 7.5, wtf.....I been wearing boots that's a 9...

Once I get home, I'm going to use the tape measure to get a more accurate reading.


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## Mig Fullbag (Apr 15, 2014)

deagol said:


> I started carving in the early 90's on a Sims Switchblade (horrible board, BTW IMO) so I have some practice with it, but reading what that article said (the first one you paraphrased) made no sense to me.
> 
> I am on the edge all the time, initiate with leaning of body. I can't describe it in words very well, but it's instinct to me. Stiff boots are good. Bent knees will aid in allowing you to absorb lots of violent shocks/vibrations that you may feel at speed. Other than that, practice a lot.


The Furberg must have felt a lot like the Switchblade to you! Man, that board had NO sidecut!!! Haaa! Haa! Ha!


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## SkullAndXbones (Feb 24, 2014)

skidding turns shouldn't make your ankles hurt. how long have you been riding? when you snowboard you're using many different muscles that you might not be used to using. or it could be a problem with your boots. or maybe it could be your stance angles or even maybe your stance width.


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## SkullAndXbones (Feb 24, 2014)

i was just thinking maybe it could be the amount of lean you have your high back set to? too much? or to little?


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## andyl9063 (Aug 4, 2014)

SkullAndXbones said:


> i was just thinking maybe it could be the amount of lean you have your high back set to? too much? or to little?


I brought my flow bindings and use it right out of the box, didn't adjust anything on the high back. I will have to check that as well.


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## timmytard (Mar 19, 2009)

andyl9063 said:


> so i just went to REI by my workplace and had them measure my foot. It's a 7.5, wtf.....I been wearing boots that's a 9...
> 
> Once I get home, I'm going to use the tape measure to get a more accurate reading.


This is what I figured.

I have a size 10 foot, well actually 2.:facepalm3:

Runners & hiking boots I get in a 10.5, there nice comfy that way.
Work boots I get 11's. Still fit fine, I guess there's some slop in there?
But whatever 99% chance I'm not going to be doing any technical, risk your life sorta shit.

I smash my foot into 9 if I can & I wear the thinnest dress socks I can find.
Normal socks would be way too tight in my 1 size to small boot.

The first few times I go, my feet feel like yours.

But super tight boots get broken in faster than, normal fitting ones.

My boots pack out quick, but unlike most people, when mine get packed out, that's when they fit perfect.

When you buy boots that fit perfect or close to it, they just get worse from then on.

If you believe it's time to step it up, you're gonna have to get stiffer booties.
They'll feel weird for the first few times.

Then it's go time.


TT


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## deagol (Mar 26, 2014)

Mig Fullbag said:


> The Furberg must have felt a lot like the Switchblade to you! Man, that board had NO sidecut!!! Haaa! Haa! Ha!


True, very true. I got rid of that Switchblade many years ago. My splitboard is a Venture Storm with a lot of sidecut and I think for spring conditions I would want something with less than that, but maybe not all the way to the Furburg extreme..

Edit: perhaps with more time on the Furburg, I would like it more.


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## ekb18c (Mar 11, 2013)

andyl9063 said:


> so i just went to REI by my workplace and had them measure my foot. It's a 7.5, wtf.....I been wearing boots that's a 9...
> 
> Once I get home, I'm going to use the tape measure to get a more accurate reading.


Well, now you know. You might have wide feet that's why you went up on size to compensate for the width. That what I did for my sneakers.

Now go try on as many boots as you can at a good shop. If you have wide feet try salomon dialogues wide or DC, or thirty two boots. These tend to run a little wider. I personally have had luck with DC judges but their sizing is a little tricky.


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## timmytard (Mar 19, 2009)

SkullAndXbones said:


> i was just thinking maybe it could be the amount of lean you have your high back set to? too much? or to little?


I was also thinkin' you may need to crank up the forward lean.
When you don't have enough, you have to use all ankle strength to dig a big heelside trench.

You don't have too much, haha, cause you'd know it in the first seconds on it.

THIS IS THE MOST SENSITIVE ADJUSTMENT ON YOUR SETUP.
One notch doesn't look like much when you're doing the adjustment, but one notch is huge when you hop on it.

Wherever you determine that perfect notch is, put it one notch farther.

That's where it should be, you're just not used to it yet.


TT


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## chomps1211 (Mar 30, 2011)

ekb18c said:


> Well, now you know. You might have wide feet that's why you went up on size to compensate for the width. That what I did for my sneakers.
> 
> Now go try on as many boots as you can at a good shop. If you have wide feet try salomon dialogues wide or DC, or thirty two boots. These tend to run a little wider. I personally have had luck with DC judges but their sizing is a little tricky.


+1

I'm a 10.5 but I went thru highschool wearing size 11's & 12's cuza my wide dogs. Here's the _REAL_ rub,... I don't measure as a wide on those stupid sliding thingy's in the shoe stores. 

But I can't _*force*_ my foot into a reg width 10.5. I have triple E's for work boots and tenni's. Thirty Two's and a pair of Saloman's have accommodated that width issue quite well. (...that and a custom molded Sidas insole!)  I think I have a high volume instep or sumpin. 

Worth looking into anyway. Improper fitting SB boots make for a miserable time on the hill. :facepalm1:

:hairy:


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## SnowDogWax (Nov 8, 2013)

Boots that work for wide, Vans, 32's, Burton Ion'


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

andyl9063 said:


> so i just went to REI by my workplace and had them measure my foot. It's a 7.5, wtf.....I been wearing boots that's a 9...
> 
> Once I get home, I'm going to use the tape measure to get a more accurate reading.


Hi Andy,

How did your barefoot measurement turn out? 

Great fitting boots are the basis for your entire kit and can make or break other gear choices. 

STOKED!


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## andyl9063 (Aug 4, 2014)

Wiredsport said:


> Hi Andy,
> 
> How did your barefoot measurement turn out?
> 
> ...


yeah my tape measure at home measure around 7.5 as well. So wiredsport, since you're the boot expert:
is it possible for me to buy boots online to get the right fitting or it's best to go to a store to get fittings even after knowing my size has been incorrect.


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

Hi Andy,

It sounds like your barefoot measurement is 25.5 cm (255mm). Is that correct? 

It is very possible to get the correct size either in store or online but sometimes this requires doing a bit of the work up front. 

If you have a chance please pull the insert from the liner on your current size 9 boots. Stand on that barefoot (no socks) with your heel back in the heel recess and post up some pictures.

With that info we can get it right for you.

This thread is about to unlock your carves and will do wonders for your riding as a whole.


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## Alpine Duke (Jun 21, 2015)

andyl9063 said:


> so i just went to REI by my workplace and had them measure my foot. It's a 7.5, wtf.....I been wearing boots that's a 9...
> 
> Once I get home, I'm going to use the tape measure to get a more accurate reading.


Andy: When we put our foot on those shoestore measuring things they have two measurements; the length and then an important one people forget...that side one. For hiking boots etc the larger of the two is the size to get. A 9 might be right for you for regular shoes. Shoes are designed to bend in a particular spot and the side size makes sure that lines up. Most people *should* match that side one for those and not the length. Having some extra length in those doesn't matter. That side one is the most important factor for hiking boots (as long as they aren't too short of course)

SB boots are not trying to match that foot bend up and so starting with actual foot length is the thing to start with. Ignore the side one for SB boots. I ride soft and hard boots and with the hardboots getting the fit down to the mm makes a difference so I measured mm length and was surprised how small I had to go to get a "glove" fit.

so....9s might be right for you in hiking boots and 7.5s might be good SB boots. Also, most people have one foot just a bit larger than the other so measure both. Then do a snow dance and send some good snow to Idaho this year


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## andyl9063 (Aug 4, 2014)

Alpine Duke said:


> Andy: When we put our foot on those shoestore measuring things they have two measurements; the length and then an important one people forget...that side one. For hiking boots etc the larger of the two is the size to get. A 9 might be right for you for regular shoes. Shoes are designed to bend in a particular spot and the side size makes sure that lines up. Most people *should* match that side one for those and not the length. Having some extra length in those doesn't matter. That side one is the most important factor for hiking boots (as long as they aren't too short of course)
> 
> SB boots are not trying to match that foot bend up and so starting with actual foot length is the thing to start with. Ignore the side one for SB boots. I ride soft and hard boots and with the hardboots getting the fit down to the mm makes a difference so I measured mm length and was surprised how small I had to go to get a "glove" fit.
> 
> so....9s might be right for you in hiking boots and 7.5s might be good SB boots. Also, most people have one foot just a bit larger than the other so measure both. Then do a snow dance and send some good snow to Idaho this year


Yeah, I was mainly looking at the length, it was 7.5. I'm going to try the insert and post it up for wiredsport to see. I'm not sure about Idaho...


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## chomps1211 (Mar 30, 2011)

Alpine Duke said:


> Andy: When we put our foot on those shoestore measuring things they have two measurements; the length and then an important one people forget...that side one. For hiking boots etc the larger of the two is the size to get. A 9 might be right for you for regular shoes. *Shoes are designed to bend in a particular spot and the side size makes sure that lines up. Most people should match that side one for those and not the length.* Having some extra length in those doesn't matter. That side one is the most important factor for hiking boots (as long as they aren't too short of course)….


50 some odd years of putting my feet in shoes and _THAT_ is the first time anyone has _ever_ explained that frikin' shoe measurement device like that,..!!!


….And I _SOLD_ shoes when I was 17-18!!!!!!!!  :facepalm1::facepalm3:


{edit}
….The moral of that little tale is, NEVER assume your salesperson knows DICK about what they're selling!!!!! You asked about buying at a BM store over online,..? _This_ is the very reason that just going to a shop is _NOT_ necessarily a guarantee of getting what you need, or even receiving "knowledgeable" advice and information !

REI salesman sold me on a LONG, cambered, WIDE, snowboard for my very first deck. I didn't _need_ a wide, and nowadays most (…but not all, thankfully) of the people giving Noob's advice, suggest going with some sort of reverse or hybrid camber for their first "learning" snowboard.

A few years back, I went to the local Ski/Snowboard shop to get some custom fitting and tweaking to my boots,… First salesperson I asked, "Who does their snowboard boot adjusting/fitting in the shop?" Stated confidently that "You can't do anything about adjusting the fit of snowboard boots!!" :facepalm3:

Fortunately,.. I had been a member here for a while and knew the kid din't have a clue, so I just asked for the manager and got the right guy to hook me up.

You are getting lots of (occasionally varying) advice, instruction and direction here. However, you will also have to do YOUR homework and determine what is or isn't relevant to your individual situation.

Having said all that, even tho the boot sizing and board width advice I received in the beginning was technically incorrect. That did not stop me from learning how to snowboard or progressing. (….The boot stuff fucked me over for a while due to a lot of pain in my feet when I rode, but I eventually worked it out with a lot of help & good information I found on this site.) And in fact, learning to ride on that advanced, cambered board like I did,.. actually helped improve my riding and progression.

So don't sweat or over think too much of the "gear" stuff! Because the truth is, aside from the boot fit issue,..? The only thing, that is ever REALLY likely to hold you back,.. Is You!! It's simply a matter of, "How bad do you want it??" :dunno:


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## andyl9063 (Aug 4, 2014)

Wiredsport said:


> Hi Andy,
> 
> It sounds like your barefoot measurement is 25.5 cm (255mm). Is that correct?
> 
> ...


Here are the pictures wiredsport

Photo Station 6


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## timmytard (Mar 19, 2009)

andyl9063 said:


> Here are the pictures wiredsport
> 
> Photo Station 6


Well what do you think?

Obviously those don't fit you.

I'd start with a size 7 maybe, that's all I can tell you.:facepalm1:

If you can't figure it out by sticking your foot in it?

Pull insole out of each one.

Boots need to be tight dude, almost too tight is perfect



TT


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## andyl9063 (Aug 4, 2014)

timmytard said:


> Well what do you think?
> 
> Obviously those don't fit you.
> 
> ...


Yeah... Turns out I've been wearing wrong size and too big. I was trying to see if wiredsport would have been able to help me narrow down boot size if I were to buy online


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

Hi Andy,

Thanks a lot for taking those photos. Something is a bit off, however. Let's figure out what it is.

For a size 9 boot (designed to fit a 27 cm foot) we would expect an insert length that is smaller than the foot size that the boot is designed for. Typical is 1 cm smaller (which would be 26 cm) but for "comfort fit" boots .5 cm smaller is not uncommon (that would mean an insert length of 26.5).

Your photos look as though there is at least 2 cm of extra insert length in comparison to your foot length. 

Kindly measure the insert length in a straight line down the center and please remeasure your bare foot.

My apologies for the extra step but I want to get this right for you.


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## ekb18c (Mar 11, 2013)

His actual foot size is 7.5. 

Which I'm pretty sure you knew already so disregard..


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## andyl9063 (Aug 4, 2014)

Wiredsport said:


> Hi Andy,
> 
> Thanks a lot for taking those photos. Something is a bit off, however. Let's figure out what it is.
> 
> ...


I'm confuse now .
Insert measures 10.5 in
Barefoot measures 9.5 in
The rei guy said my size is 7.5.


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

andyl9063 said:


> I'm confuse now .
> Insert measures 10.5 in
> Barefoot measures 9.5 in
> The rei guy said my size is 7.5.


No sweat at all, bro. The trouble that you are having is very common. We want to make sure that you get it right on the next try.

Your liner measurement is 26.67. That is within the range of what we expect to see for a comfort fit 27 cm (size 9) snowboard boot.

Your foot measurement of 9.5 inches is 24.13 cm. That is just above a size 6 snowboard boot. Anything above a whole size will typically bump up to the next half size so that would be a size 6.5 for you. 

If you want to measure the width of your foot at the widest point I can give you a better idea of if you will need a wide boot or not. I can usually tell from the photos but it is a bit tricky in your case because the sizing is off by a good margin.

Most shops do not stock your size so you may have to order online. 

One important note. Coming from wearing boots that have been quite large for your foot the correct size is going to feel *very wrong* at first. Not to worry. Lace the boot up and leave it on. This takes a bit of getting used to but it is well worth it and your riding will thank you


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## andyl9063 (Aug 4, 2014)

Wiredsport said:


> No sweat at all, bro. The trouble that you are having is very common. We want to make sure that you get it right on the next try.
> 
> Your liner measurement is 26.67. That is within the range of what we expect to see for a comfort fit 27 cm (size 9) snowboard boot.
> 
> ...


Wow that's 2.5 size difference...I don't even see 6.5 size on evo.com


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

andyl9063 said:


> Wow that's 2.5 size difference


Yes, and a 3 size difference from your first boots. Don't sweat that. The cool thing is that you have been riding with a major hindrance and next time you ride...you won't be .

Most boot models are not produced under size 7. Size 6.5 is rarer again. Salomon produces 6.5 in many models. When 2016 is available you can likely get those direct from them. You might want to drop them an email and ask about availability.

STOKED!


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## andyl9063 (Aug 4, 2014)

Wiredsport said:


> Yes, and a 3 size difference from your first boots. Don't sweat that. The cool thing is that you have been riding with a major hindrance and next time you ride...you won't be .
> 
> Most boot models are not produced under size 7. Size 6.5 is rarer again. Salomon produces 6.5 in many models. When 2016 is available you can likely get those direct from them. You might want to drop them an email and ask about availability.
> 
> STOKED!


safe to assume 6.5 in women is not the same right?


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

andyl9063 said:


> safe to assume 6.5 in women is not the same right?


Nope. Also keep in mind that women's boots will be more narrow and have a lower boot leg.









Check out Deeluxe boots. They've sizes down to 24cm Mondo. I've a 24.6cm foot an been searching quite a bit for small men's boots cos women's boots were not stiff enough for my liking. Went with a 25cm mondo Deeluxe boot. 

They felt tight the first days thus I was insecure if I should rather get a 25.5, but after some days in use they packed out and are very comfy now (btw, thanks Wiredsport for convincing me that this will be right size!; they turned out to be )


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## timmytard (Mar 19, 2009)

andyl9063 said:


> safe to assume 6.5 in women is not the same right?


No. not the same.

But... If the chick boot fits you better than all the rest.
Buy it, even if it looks like the gayest boot ever.

Who cares, paint it black, or whatever.

Boots are by far the key to snowboarding.

There's tonnes of gear out there considered "used" because someone bought it & tried it once.

They never did it again. find that used gear if you can.


TT


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## larrytbull (Oct 30, 2013)

andyl9063 said:


> safe to assume 6.5 in women is not the same right?


had this issue with my Son, he was 6.5-7 which is a tough size to find 
wound up getting him women's boots, since his foot is narrow but long for his age (closer to a youth size). 
I know for a fact the flow helios come in a 6.5 
they are a pretty decent boot


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

Hi Bro,

we put together this sizing tool to help with that Snowboard Boot Size, Chart, Calculator, Sizing . 

Another thing to watch our for is that women's boots use female specific lasts which are almost always narrower than a male last at the same size. 

I mention that because I think we could have a width issue and I would still like to get that width measurement from you just to be sure.

Your size 9 boots look to be a fine fit in terms of width (a bit hard to tell as your foot is not lining up with the structures of the insert due to the large size discrepancy). *BUT* as boot size decreases, so does width. One confusing factor is that a D width (for instance) is not the same width in all boots. A D in size 6.5 will be significantly less wide than a D in size 9. 

I want to make sure that when we downsize your boot 2.5 sizes that we have a good fit width wise. I can assure this if you wouldn't mind measuring straight across the widest point of your foot.


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## andyl9063 (Aug 4, 2014)

Wiredsport said:


> Hi Bro,
> 
> we put together this sizing tool to help with that Snowboard Boot Size, Chart, Calculator, Sizing .
> 
> ...


It is 3.5 in wide.


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

andyl9063 said:


> It is 3.5 in wide.


Perfect. No need for a wide boot. You are a perfect D at size 6.5 (most snowboard boots are D width).

STOKED!


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## andyl9063 (Aug 4, 2014)

Wiredsport said:


> Perfect. No need for a wide boot. You are a perfect D at size 6.5 (most snowboard boots are D width).
> 
> STOKED!


I got the flow quattro medium bindings. Will it still fit a 6.5 boot?


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

andyl9063 said:


> I got the flow quattro medium bindings. Will it still fit a 6.5 boot?


Yes, Flow's Medium fits sizes 4.5 to 8.5.

Here is Flow's size chart:

https://s3.amazonaws.com/Flow14-15/Support/Flow+2014+Sizing-chart.pdf


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## andyl9063 (Aug 4, 2014)

Wiredsport said:


> Yes, Flow's Medium fits sizes 4.5 to 8.5.
> 
> Here is Flow's size chart:
> 
> https://s3.amazonaws.com/Flow14-15/Support/Flow+2014+Sizing-chart.pdf


Thanks for all your help!


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

Pleased to do it bro. You are looking very good for boots and bindings with this setup. 

Back to the carving core of this thread. You will likely need to re-center your bindings on your board to get an equal amount of toe and heel overhang. If your old setup had been centered using your size 9 or 9.5 boots you would have been riding with your feet significantly shifted to the heelward edge. This can make toeside carves very difficult and inconsistent.

Now that you have the correct boot size and are well centered in your bindings we can get you centered on your board and voila, you are killing it!

I am stoked for the year that you are about to have.

One last interest would be the board are you riding. With a size 6 to 6.5 foot size, board width is critical. You are unlikely to find the ideal width but the closer we can get you the more fun you will have. Especially where carving is concerned.


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## timmytard (Mar 19, 2009)

This.

With tiny hooves, you are most likely going to be riding a wider than ideal board..In some peoples opinion.

I prefer a wider deck, offer more float, you dig a deeper trench & they're generally burlier.
My 9's on a wide deck are prolly similar to your 6.5's on a regular width board.

You will need to move your bindings closer to the toe side edge.
That has a huge effect on your heel side carves, without doing that, you won't get much heel hold on heelside carves. It'll feel like it's slipping out on you.


TT


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## andyl9063 (Aug 4, 2014)

Wiredsport said:


> Pleased to do it bro. You are looking very good for boots and bindings with this setup.
> 
> Back to the carving core of this thread. You will likely need to re-center your bindings on your board to get an equal amount of toe and heel overhang. If your old setup had been centered using your size 9 or 9.5 boots you would have been riding with your feet significantly shifted to the heelward edge. This can make toeside carves very difficult and inconsistent.
> 
> ...


Duly noted. Thanks!


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## speedjason (May 2, 2013)

There are generally two types of carving. You have cross-over carving where your body pivot at the board. And then you have cross-under carving where your board moves under you.
Cross-over carving involves moving the center of mass from edge to edge without too much lower body movement.
Cross-under carving utilized the legs to "suck" up board to switch from edge to edge.


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## SkullAndXbones (Feb 24, 2014)

carving is too much work. just go straight


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## andyl9063 (Aug 4, 2014)

So my size 6.5 (24.5) boots came in. I took out the inserts and put my feet on. It's definitely a fit. I tried the whole boot on and my feet fit. It's a snug fit, will need the boots to stretch out a bit. So far so good. I will provide an update in the next coming months.

I got the deeluxe id 5.2 btw


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

andyl9063 said:


> So my size 6.5 (24.5) boots came in. I took out the inserts and put my feet on. It's definitely a fit. I tried the whole boot on and my feet fit. It's a snug fit, will need the boots to stretch out a bit. So far so good. I will provide an update in the next coming months.
> 
> I got the deeluxe id 5.2 btw


Great to hear. If you have one of Deeluxe's heat moldable liners you will want to get the heat fit done. 


STOKED!


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## andyl9063 (Aug 4, 2014)

Wiredsport said:


> Great to hear. If you have one of Deeluxe's heat moldable liners you will want to get the heat fit done.
> 
> 
> STOKED!


do you have any info on this boot: DEELUXE ID LARA SCL TF CUSTOM SNOWBOARD BEIGE/BROWN BOOTS SZ 6.5

I can't find any specs and if it's a men's boot or not. The deeluxe id 5.2 is mostly freestyle which I don't really do much. Mostly resort and powder.


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

andyl9063 said:


> do you have any info on this boot: DEELUXE ID LARA SCL TF CUSTOM SNOWBOARD BEIGE/BROWN BOOTS SZ 6.5
> 
> I can't find any specs and if it's a men's boot or not. The deeluxe id 5.2 is mostly freestyle which I don't really do much. Mostly resort and powder.


Google has it as a women's boot (not in the current lineup). TF likely refers to Thermofit so that would indicate a heat moldable liner. If that is correct you will want to get that done.


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## speedjason (May 2, 2013)

Anyone who's decent at carving find it hard to slip turn anymore. I mean I just carve most of the time. Only time I slip turn is for like a speed check or spray my friends.


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## andyl9063 (Aug 4, 2014)

Wiredsport said:


> Google has it as a women's boot (not in the current lineup). TF likely refers to Thermofit so that would indicate a heat moldable liner. If that is correct you will want to get that done.


I'm looking at vicious tfp ( Thermo Flex Premium liner ) as well. When you said heat moldable, is it require or I can just break it in by wearing it ?


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

andyl9063 said:


> I'm looking at vicious tfp ( Thermo Flex Premium liner ) as well. When you said heat moldable, is it require or I can just break it in by wearing it ?


It is important that you get it heat fit. Heat fitting redistributes liner material into the negative spaces created by your foot. This is comfortable and helps keep your foot in place.

Question though, does the liner have 24.5 printed on it? If this was a women's 6.5 that would not be expected.


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## andyl9063 (Aug 4, 2014)

Wiredsport said:


> It is important that you get it heat fit. Heat fitting redistributes liner material into the negative spaces created by your foot. This is comfortable and helps keep your foot in place.
> 
> Question though, does the liner have 24.5 printed on it? If this was a women's 6.5 that would not be expected.


I'm just looking at this online, the vicious tfp 24.5 is specifically for men, so I don't know if it's printed on it.


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

andyl9063 said:


> I'm just looking at this online, the vicious tfp 24.5 is specifically for men, so I don't know if it's printed on it.


Above you had mentioned the Lara. Which do you have?


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## andyl9063 (Aug 4, 2014)

Wiredsport said:


> Above you had mentioned the Lara. Which do you have?


I brought the Deeluxe ID 5.2 PF, I mention earlier that the 6.5 seem to fit fine, will need to stretch it out a bit. I notice it was freestyle which I don't really do much. I probably return this boot.

Skip the lara since it's a women's boot. Now I'm looking at the deeluxe vicious tfp, but you mention that one is require for a heat mold which I probably can't do due to my location. My plan was to break it in while wearing around the house.


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

andyl9063 said:


> I brought the Deeluxe ID 5.2 PF, I mention earlier that the 6.5 seem to fit fine, will need to stretch it out a bit. I notice it was freestyle which I don't really do much. I probably return this boot.
> 
> Skip the lara since it's a women's boot. Now I'm looking at the deeluxe vicious tfp, but you mention that one is require for a heat mold which I probably can't do due to my location. My plan was to break it in while wearing around the house.


I see. You definitely want the heat moldable liner if that is an option. You can almost certainly get this done when you go to the resort.


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## andyl9063 (Aug 4, 2014)

Wiredsport said:


> I see. You definitely want the heat moldable liner if that is an option. You can almost certainly get this done when you go to the resort.


I see that being an option. Do I still need to break it in by wearing around house if I'm going to get it heat molded?


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

andyl9063 said:


> I see that being an option. Do I still need to break it in by wearing around house if I'm going to get it heat molded?


No sir.

STOKED!


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