# Considering new bindings: Rome 390 Boss, Nitro Phantom



## snowklinger (Aug 30, 2011)

FWIW your Burtons actually do have canting, its a tech called AutoCant.

With replaceable footbeds you may gain 1-1.5 degrees from a different manufacturer, but I very much doubt its going to make any noticeable difference on your knees. Also I think a little canting is good, the max is not necessarily better than zero.

Its too bad that Burton bindings don't fit your size... This is a known issue with 11s. I like the fact that their bindings are one piece and not adjustable, it is a selling feature for me.

Not sure if they fit 11s any better but if I couldn't fit Burton, I'd be all over FLUX.

You may also consider a damper deck.


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## ekb18c (Mar 11, 2013)

If you are looking at Rome, you might as well look at the Katana. They look bad ass..

I'm considering getting the Katana or the Flux SF.


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## Simon Birch (Mar 11, 2014)

All my Rome 390 bosses came with 2 foot beds. One at 0 degrees and the other at 3.5 degrees. They're a medium stiff binding. The Targas came with 0, 2, and 3.5 degree footbeds and are stiffer binding you can customize. Not sure what the Katans come with since I don't own a pair.


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## Seppuccu (Dec 4, 2012)

Hear ye snowklinger, although I'm with those who believe that AutoCant doesn't work.

The Cartels are truly an overall awesome binding, I'm really frustrated by this centering issue. Anyways, I also want to add canting, so.

I've considered Flux bindings too, but dismissed because they don't seem to have much dampening?

Katanas do seem cool ... although I've seen the colour peel off supposedly new bindings... They also have Rome's new smaller base plate which makes them even more interesting.

But I might be leaning toward the Phantoms at this point.


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## tdn (Dec 30, 2010)

My understanding is that the paint issue with Rome has been addressed.. but if you're saying you've seen it with Katanas which came out this year, then the issue has resurfaced or hasn't be addressed. Can you clarify what you mean by "... although I've seen the colour peel off supposedly new bindings..." which bindings? Katanas?

I've had my problem with Rome bindings in the past but I'm still a big fan. I'm also a big fan of Flux bindings.. I've had Burtons, I wasn't much of a fan.. also have size 11/11.5 boots. I also agree that AutoCant doesn't work, I actually experienced more fatigue with my last Cartels despite being the same stance width and angle as my other set ups. 

Flux has pretty much has the same thing Burton does in regards to Canting, but they seemed noticeably better to me, but not as good as full on canted beds.

Anyway, the whole canting thing is an easy DIY fix if that's the only thing stopping you from picking one set of bindings over another. 

As for stiffness, my 2014 cartels were stiffer than my 2012 and 2014 390 boss bindings. So if you want Rome, I'd check out the Katanas. For Flux, go with the SF's. 

Lastly, Rome bindings are not complicated. If you really need help, I'm sure there are youtube videos, if not, go to a good shop or a good friend for some help. They definitely take more time to set up than other bindings but they aren't complicated.

/rant
//boredom


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## Brewtown (Feb 16, 2014)

I ditched my cartels this year for the same reasons and if I had the cash I'd be all over the Union Factory. Adjustable heel loop, canted, and should be just a touch more responsive than your Cartels.


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## SkullAndXbones (Feb 24, 2014)

couldn't you just turn the binding discs so the screw wholes are perpendicular to the screw holes on your board and then just slide your bindings forward a little bit? i have the 2013 Rome Targa bindings and i love them. stiff binding. 3 different canting positions. 3 different padding inserts for the straps to make them even stiffer. the 390 has canting but i dont know if they come with padding inserts. and on rome's site they say they are a medium binding in terms of stiffness so you may wanna look at the targas. just make sure your boots will fit into the bindings before you buy them. one other thing, a lot of reviews said that the targa bindings were difficult to set up. on one review i remember it said it took them 45 minutes to do it. and i can tell you that it's not hard at all. it took me 5 minutes. yeah they're very customizable but all you have to do is turn screws and insert some padding if you choose to put in a thicker pad for your straps. i don't know what's so hard about it.


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## Justin (Jun 2, 2010)

Phantoms are AWESOME however i cracked my base plate. 390s are very good and rome has the best customer support out there, anything breaks they just send you a new part quick. Nitro was a bit of a pain to deal with.

I have targas too, i really like them maybe my second fav next to the phantoms.


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## SkullAndXbones (Feb 24, 2014)

yeah rome's customer service is awesome. another great thing is if you have any questions and email them you will be talking to someone who rides and uses their products. and they respond quickly. usually within a day.


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## Seppuccu (Dec 4, 2012)

tdn said:


> My understanding is that the paint issue with Rome has been addressed.. but if you're saying you've seen it with Katanas which came out this year, then the issue has resurfaced or hasn't be addressed. Can you clarify what you mean by "... although I've seen the colour peel off supposedly new bindings..." which bindings? Katanas?
> 
> [---]
> 
> ...


Thanks for the rant.  Might have to read up on DIY canting.

Check out the photos of the Katanas at Absolute Snow - those are new bindings that they've just tested. You can clearly see the colour peel off.

I might take another look at the SFs.



SkullAndXbones said:


> couldn't you just turn the binding discs so the screw wholes are perpendicular to the screw holes on your board and then just slide your bindings forward a little bit? [---]


The Re:Flex plates are different. You can only switch them one position (approx 5 mm) back or forward and it's not enough. Thanks for the info on the Targas.



Brewtown said:


> I ditched my cartels this year for the same reasons and if I had the cash I'd be all over the Union Factory. Adjustable heel loop, canted, and should be just a touch more responsive than your Cartels.


But no mini disc /reduced dead spot. And I've previously owned the Flites and liked neither the toe straps, nor the hard bed of those bindings.



Justin said:


> Phantoms are AWESOME however i cracked my base plate. 390s are very good and rome has the best customer support out there, anything breaks they just send you a new part quick. Nitro was a bit of a pain to deal with.


On the other hand aren't you that guy who breaks everything?


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## Seppuccu (Dec 4, 2012)

SGboarder said:


> Keep in mind that these things have probably spend more time on the snow than you have in your life...


Well I can't really object to that, now can I?  Although I think it would be pretty stupid of them to take those photos *after* riding the bindings that much.



SGboarder said:


> You are not centered because you have the wrong size...


Nope. Check Burton's homepage. The Ls are supposed to be size 10+ and my boots are size 11, without footprint reduction. M are up to (Burton) size 11. Like previously mentioned, this is a well known problem with the Re:Flex bindings. I know some people have solved this by using L straps with M bindings though...

Anyways, back on topic.


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## Seppuccu (Dec 4, 2012)

SGboarder said:


> Sorry, but wrong. If you cannot center the boots and have more heel overhang than you need to downsize the bindings.
> Also, I understand that the Burton binding sizing refers to boots without footprint reductions (so for their own boots the scale would be different from the one that they indicate, which is rather silly). Also while the Nitro boots do not officially have footprint reduction they fairly compact - I have had bulkier boots in M sized Burton binding.


Fair enough. I guess I'll bring my boots to a local store and see how they fit Cartels in size M.

I might just add that I don't have an overhang issue with the 3x3 baseplates, because the distance between the holes is bigger with those.



In any case, it's still not going to address the canting issue...


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## Brewtown (Feb 16, 2014)

But no mini disc /reduced dead spot. And I've previously owned the Flites and liked neither the toe straps said:


> I've never been on the Flites, but I rode both the Atlas and Cartels last year and never noticed a big difference in comfort or tip to tail response. I'd guess the upgraded base on the Atlas/Factory is a big improvement over the Flite, or maybe I'm just not very perceptive to that kind of thing. Out of curiosity has anyone else rode the higher end Union bindings that could compare the feel to reflex or mini disc?
> 
> If your just not down with Union I can respect that though, the toe strap works great with some boots, not so much with others. As for the Cartels sizing, I wore size 12 Forums last year and was still a touch heel heavy even with the bindings all the way forward. When I switched to 11.5 32s this year it just won't work. Please keep us updated on your search, I'd be very interested to see if you can make a size 11 fit in M Cartels. And while I love my Atlases, my knees would appreciate some canting, I just haven't been impressed enough with the options I've come across so far to justify spending the money.


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

1. Same issue with Sz US 11 boots. The L Re:flex can't be centered on some boards. Maybe M does... but depending on the boot may be too tight. Otherwise great bindings.

2. I don't think Autocant works. It simply seems like more cushioning which will settle to a certain degree... but if it doesn't offer a lot of resistance in order to settle, then how is it supposed to support your knees?

3. Who cares if the paint chipped off a bit in a Katana demo/review binding? those bindings could have been used by dozens of people and shipped aroun without proper packaging or whatever... I think, if the binding works, i'd rather have paint chipping off than ill-fitting/ill-performing bindings. Some guy up there ^ said they "look badass"... not sure how that translates to a good binding. But once some people have actually tried them you may get some feedback.

4. I've tried canted footbeds and non-canted. Canting is a definite +. Less knee fatigue/strain, better ollie and pressing strenght. 

5. Have you looked at Ride Capo? That's what i have and love em.


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## midnightcaper (Mar 23, 2013)

I've been riding 390 bosses for 2 years best thing I bought so far. Only problem I've had is mine are are the 2013 model and the high back adjustment wasn't a very good design the kept loosening and the knob would turn. But I got that taken care of with some loc-tite. Other than that I love them came with 3 foot beds. 0, 2.0, 3.5. I actually prefer a binding I can adjust to what ever boot and stance I'm riding at the time.


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## DBLdangerTILT (Oct 26, 2009)

The phantoms have a sliding heel cup too.


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## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

Katana's are the business. They likely had pre-production samples in that review which did have some paint chipping issues on the highback and they stiffened up the highback just a hair for production. Overall it was a phenomenal binding. Probably the best thing I rode last year.


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

Nivek said:


> Katana's are the business. They likely had pre-production samples in that review which did have some paint chipping issues on the highback and they stiffened up the highback just a hair for production. Overall it was a phenomenal binding. Probably the best thing I rode last year.


I toyed with them a bit at the shop today and they seem really well made. Very light, but not lighter than Genesis. Highback has some torsional give, but seems very very good towards the heel... a bit less stiff than the Targa but stiffer than Boss390.

I'm still deciding between Genesis, Katana and NOW Select or Drives. Will bring my board and boots to the shop in a few weeks or more and choose one o these bindings...

Another quite interesting binding i saw today were Cartel Ltd. These have the hammock straps and the awesome Genesis double-bite buckles/ratchets.... VERY appealing.

Ahhhhhhh so many choices :facepalm3: i wish i could demo them.........


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## Seppuccu (Dec 4, 2012)

F1EA said:


> Have you looked at Ride Capo? That's what i have and love em.


They seem reasonable. No issues with toe straps? Not extremely stiff?



DBLdangerTILT said:


> The phantoms have a sliding heel cup too.





Nivek said:


> Katana's are the business. They likely had pre-production samples in that review which did have some paint chipping issues on the highback and they stiffened up the highback just a hair for production. Overall it was a phenomenal binding. Probably the best thing I rode last year.


Excellent, thanks guys!



Brewtown said:


> If your just not down with Union I can respect that though, the toe strap works great with some boots, not so much with others. As for the Cartels sizing, I wore size 12 Forums last year and was still a touch heel heavy even with the bindings all the way forward. When I switched to 11.5 32s this year it just won't work. Please keep us updated on your search, I'd be very interested to see if you can make a size 11 fit in M Cartels. And while I love my Atlases, my knees would appreciate some canting, I just haven't been impressed enough with the options I've come across so far to justify spending the money.


I don't really mind Union per se. Just made some comparisons and the higher end bindings in Union's line definitely have a different footbed than the Flites. The Factories, that I consider the most interesting from Union, also have a supposedly new toe strap also. And canting. Question is if the ratchets have improved... And still no mini disc.

I'll let you know as soon as I've tried the M Cartels.

So, new list is:
Nitro Phantom
Rome Katana
Ride Capo
(Union Factory)
(Flux SF)

Trying not to let looks influence my decisions...but I'm a sucker for orange. :embarrased1: Now I have a few monts to try to find and compare different bindings in stores, and then we'll see what happens when sales set in.


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

Orange? 
Well there's an orange Katana and orange Genesis... So there you go 

Anyways, about the Capo... they are not super stiff; but they are stiff. Great match for your BSOD. Kinda between 390 Boss and Targa. The minidisc works well and the highback is awesome in that it has excellent heel/toe response but a bit of torsional flex; but my favourite part is that it is flat so you have full ankle freedom tip/tail. They are also light. They have pretty much everything you said are looking for.

The problem may be the aluminum baseplate and toe caps. The baseplate feels stiff (but if you like 390 Boss then no big deal) and some people talk about breaking the toe cap webbing. I've had no issues at all, but if some people have then it's worth a listen. They've kept the webbing and use it on most of their bindings so it can't be all that bad. It's no match for the Burton toe cap though, almost nothing is actually.

The Katana does feel and look awesome. Really good. But expensive (about same as Genesis) and kinda complicated. Like a Lamborghini..... too much going on; the Katana are very light, but the Genesis are even lighter and way more simple.

Personally... I love Burton bindings. They are the best, but i also struggle to get them centered... and i really like the canting in my Capos, so i may stick to canted beds from now on (which mean the Katana are pretty attractive); but i'll just bring my board and boots and pick whatever feel and fits better as a whole.


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## jdang307 (Feb 6, 2011)

There is a Nitro guy on EL that sells new/demo stuff. I got 2015 team bindings back in May for $140. Never used, just some marks from handling.

He always has basically anything I want the few times I've asked him privately  I asked for an Uberspoon and he had it, just never pulled the trigger.

His name is Parker. If you decide on the phantoms, Not sure he has any stuff left but it's worth asking.

Spring is the best time to hit him up ...


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## jdang307 (Feb 6, 2011)

SGboarder said:


> Sorry, but wrong. *If you cannot center the boots and have more heel overhang than you need to downsize the bindings.*
> Also, I understand that the Burton binding sizing refers to boots without footprint reductions (so for their own boots the scale would be different from the one that they indicate, which is rather silly). Also while the Nitro boots do not officially have footprint reduction they fairly compact - I have had bulkier boots in M sized Burton binding.


From what I've read, recently the reflex discs from Burton are hard to center. I had the 2012 Malavitas, in medium (8-11) and it fit my 7.5's perfectly, right in the middle all the way around. But I heard they changed the discs for 2013.

I also remember someone saying they called Burton for special reflex discs that allow even more adjustment, which alleviated the problem.


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## Seppuccu (Dec 4, 2012)

The basic problem with the discs can be seen on the photo below: The forward/backward adjustment of the 3x3 (and Channel, not pictured) discs is twice as big than that of the 4x4 discs.


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## Pigeons (Aug 8, 2013)

I ride 12/13 Nitro Phantom bindings with 12/13 Nitro team TLS boots. Love the bindings, I've probably done 200 or so days on them. 

I will replace them at some point this season, as I also want canting. The only issue I've had with them is that the forward lean adjuster is prone to coming loose and not locking off (eventually falls off). I've had these repaired three times, twice on the lead binding and once on the other, I don't mess around with them once I've set the angle.

Bar normal wear and tear, no broken straps, ratchets are still working well. Would like to lay my hands on some black L 13/14 models but cant find any so will no doubt pic up some 14/15 models soon.


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## wind gypsy (Feb 13, 2014)

My '13 medium cartels fit size 11 boots just fine..


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## Seppuccu (Dec 4, 2012)

Finally decided to pull the trigger on a pair of '15 Nitro Phantom bindings size L, and here they are:










The weight of both bindings including base plates and screws is 2 062 grams (4.546 lbs). The straps are extemely easy to adjust. The ankle straps are comfy. The toe straps seem to be ok - but nothing like Burton's Gettagrip toe straps (of course). I might try the Cartel toe straps on these bindings if they fit. (The bindings also come with a leash. Silly Nitro!) 

(A nice detail I didn’t spot on pictures online was the black denim on the ankle straps. I like it!)

Note: 2x4, not 4x4! Helps reducing the dead spot, but I’m wondering if this actually makes it easier to break the board (more tension per area unit). The minidisc is supposedly Channel compatible, but I don’t really see how, and the manual doesn’t mention anything about it.










Also note snap lock feature on the disc:










The highbacks are definitely torsionally stiffer than the highbacks of my Cartels. On the other hand they have much less curvature; I have no idea if that makes any difference at all.










Airbag dampening system. Check.










Dear Nitro, thank you for allowing me to center my boots on my snowboard!










First impression from the mat test is that it was much easier to press the board with the Phantoms than with the Cartels, but I might have to compare them back to back to be certain.

.02


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