# burton no good



## Guest (May 12, 2010)

To whom it may concern:
I have been snowboarding for fifteen year representing the Burton line of boards, boots, bindings and apparel since I first went snowboarding in Vermont which I believe is where you start as well. Over the years I considered your boards, boots and bindings to be the industry stander and your clothing and outerwear apparel designer quality. As an aggressive rider I like to stay in tune by pushing myself on the mountain which leaves my equipment nicked, dented , gouged, clothing worn and inspired for new equipment. The desire for new equipment is not necessary every season because the useful life of your product last more than one winter. To address my concern your equipment has fallen below industry stander. After last winter I invested in a new T-6 one of burtons elite models and a new pair of pipe gloves all of which I will have to replace after one season. As a concerned consumer I think the quality of these goods should improve and compensation should be rewarded to all that have been taken advantage, I included, for your lack of excellence of material and engineering used to produce your product. 
The Burton T-6 is a new honeycomb design that is supposed to be indestructible when used in the proper manger. As a snowboard enthusiasm I insure you that this model was not used in the terrain park on rails or jumps. I have been living in Colorado where the mountain condition cater to the steep and deep ideology behind your design incorporated in the T-6 model. After one season of riding my Burton T-6’s base had representations of what looked like thumb prints in butter, riddled from tip to tail. This quality backed product was obviously over looked by inspectors or materials purchased to produce this model were of poor quality. I can no longer buy or recommend a Burton T-6 model snowboard to any one that for years has trusted my advice pertaining snowboards for a concern that they will accrue a sunk cost of seven hundred dollar as I have. 
The Marketing department of Burton has improved the sales of your pipe gloves not from making them more affordable to the consumer but from lessening the quality of design. When examining Burton pipe glove the weakest part of the glove, which was never the case with previous design, and the most likely to rip is the area between the thumb and index finger. This area corresponds to the most frequently ripped part of my gloves and friends gloves that have rips as well. In addition this area of the glove is the one part of the glove that comes in contact with the sharp metal edge of the snowboard when a grab is preformed. I have lost faith in your gloves based on these facts. A company that has sold a quality product like the Burton pipe glove for so many years changes the design to lessen the quality to increase sales not only losses consumer confidence but has lost this consumer altogether. 
When a company that has the market share that you do lessens the quality of their operations and still has a mission statement stating they are the leaders in the industry with quality backed products needs to develop better corporate morals. Burton you do not built a quality product and should not stand behind poor management decisions. As a smart consumer I will no long buy or recommend any of your snowboards or gloves. What I will do is let everyone that I know in my snowboard community about the problems with your equipment and persuade them never to buy Burton again. I hope this letter has brought you insight to your corporation of how an average consumer embedded within the community of snowboarders has lost faith in your company. 

Sincerely,
Ryan Spaulding


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## BurtonAvenger (Aug 14, 2007)

Dear Ryan,
What is the industry standard? Can you prove without a doubt that there is a true industry standard that solely exists and is universal from Lamar to Burton and everything in between even covering the niche market and the people that are very D.I.Y inclined that would make their own gear? Is your standards higher than others? 

Colorado is not known to be steep or deep unless in the southern part of the state or hiking for your turns. Most resorts are actually pretty mediocre in terms of their steep and deep terrain especially this year. If you were riding one board for all mountain use this season it is even safe to say that excessive abuse should be considered due to the fact the conditions have been less than ideal. It is a snowboard they are meant to be ridden and destroyed.

Wear and tear is normal and anyone buying a glove especially a pipe glove should come to terms with the fact that these will wear down especially in the aforementioned area. It is the most common area for any glove whether Burton or Hestra (which has a life time warranty on seams). Gloves will blow out and 50 dollars for a pair of gloves should just be expected into a yearly or biyearly expense budget. 

Just like the glove wear and tear happens to your deck. What you seem to be describing is the fact that to reduce weight and give better performance the T6 has a slightly thinner base and uses a very soft ptex to absorb wax. In a lesser snow year like this year you need to heed exceptionally good care of something that is this high end as it will take more abuse. Perhaps you were not as preventative as you could be.

As far as the Burton marketing machine it is doing its job and as snowboarding as progressed so to have they as a company it's called globalization. When you get to the level of production they are at they have goods made worldwide in a vast array of factories. The same glove made in two different factories will wear differently and fit differently.

Also if you are going to write an open letter to a forum it is highly advisable that you take into consideration that proof reading and spell checking will greatly help your cause and not make you look like you have a diminished brain capacity and wrote something in the heat of the moment letting your emotions run the discharge from your fingers instead of logic.

Sincerely,
A shop guy that has heard it all before.


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## legallyillegal (Oct 6, 2008)

is this some sort of failed spam attempt


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## BurtonAvenger (Aug 14, 2007)

Maybe? But I think it's just a cry to tell us we need more Unicorns!


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## fattrav (Feb 21, 2009)

I took the edges off of my board and replaced them with unicorn horn. Shit is redic.


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## Leo (Nov 24, 2009)

Dear Ryan:

Costco sells Kleenex in bulk.

Disclaimer: Kleenex tissue is a one-time use only product without any warranties. The consumer will be held liable for all damage dealt to the Kleenex tissue.


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## burritosandsnow (Nov 22, 2008)

I kept reading for the crazy Engrish then got to the bottom and his name is Ryan. Maybe this kid did spend a shit ton of days on the hill this year, because he sure as hell wasnt in school.

O BTW to the O.P. if he wanders back in here .. this forum IS NOT filled with Burton fanboys so dont go down that road.


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## crowe176 (Mar 2, 2009)

Ryan's right, Burton's regalia is palatial.


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## Leo (Nov 24, 2009)

crowe176 said:


> Ryan's right, Burton's regalia is palatial.


Say what? Ryan is saying the exact opposite of what you just stated.

I think somebody was looking for an excuse to use fancy words lol :laugh:


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## T.J. (Aug 28, 2007)

dont feed the troll


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## Flick Montana (Jul 9, 2007)

Elite spam defense squadron leader checking in!










Paint the target.


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## Lstarrasl (Mar 26, 2010)

I was just about to fully gear out from head to toe in Burton until I read this post. 

Sincerely,
Bob A. Boey


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## crowe176 (Mar 2, 2009)

I just outfitted my palatial with regalia.


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## Leo (Nov 24, 2009)

crowe176 said:


> I just outfitted my palatial with regalia.


That's what she said...


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## Deviant (Dec 22, 2009)

I can't belive I just read all that, I want my time back please.


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## anti-bling (Apr 21, 2010)

Its sounds like he cut-and-paste his complaint letter to Burton here.

But i agree with alot of what he says. And its not just Burton either, quality in a lot of the big companies is going down, and it has to do with $$$.

Its more "profitable" to build boards crappier, and sell more of them, if you sell to enough punters that aren't gonna ride hard enough to have to warranty the board. Same goes with any other equipment.

Build lots of shytty stuff and bet on only having to replace a fraction of it (again, with shytty product. Burton itself has admitted that it COULD make boards to last longer, but chooses not to, so that they can sell more.


I'm fed up with that kind of half-assed product, and instead try to buy from smaller companies that aren't out to exploit the market by making crap and selling lots.


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## Snowfox (Dec 26, 2009)

snowhead said:


> To whom it may concern:
> Blah Blah Blah... horrible fucking grammar... horrible fucking spelling... horrible fucking letter.
> 
> Sincerely,
> Ryan Spaulding



Dear Ryan, 

Please learn English. Once you are able to read, write, and comprehend English at a high school level you are allowed to write back. 

Sincerely, 
"Everyone whose intelligence dropped reading that shit"

p.s. Don't use big words if you don't know what they mean, dearie.


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## Leo (Nov 24, 2009)

anti-bling said:


> Its sounds like he cut-and-paste his complaint letter to Burton here.
> 
> But i agree with alot of what he says. And its not just Burton either, quality in a lot of the big companies is going down, and it has to do with $$$.
> 
> ...


Hold onto your crypants bro. 2011 Burton shit is sick. So are the 2011 K2 and Rides. I want so many boards :/

The only companies that disappointed me was Lib Tech, GNU, and Flow. Lib and GNU had a couple of good boards and Flow had boring boards all across the *ahem* board.


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## COB (Mar 6, 2009)

Burton just started making artificial heart valves. My aged granny had one installed, and she checked out in about 2 days.


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## BurtonAvenger (Aug 14, 2007)

COB said:


> Burton just started making artificial heart valves. My aged granny had one installed, and she checked out in about 2 days.


That wasn't from the heart valve I sexed her so hard.


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## COB (Mar 6, 2009)

BurtonAvenger said:


> That wasn't from the heart valve I sexed her so hard.


We wondered about that big smile on her face. Granny had a certain zest for living.


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## lonestarrider (Jan 17, 2010)

I wonder what sales guy lied to this kid and told him Honeycomb was "indestructible". I just looked at the last 5 years of Burton catalogs, and never once did the refer to board as "indestructible". It is aluminum dude. Light yes, strong no.


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## Reede (Feb 16, 2009)

Sorry but blaming a board manufacturer for poor quality because your base got damaged by rocks is retarded. Thats like blaming a car company for poor quality because it gets dinged when you reverse it into other peoples cars with your shitty reverse parking skills.

I didnt want to dignify this thread but I couldnt help it.


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## anti-bling (Apr 21, 2010)

nowhere did he say he hit rocks, sounds like he rode it normally.

I had my first air of gloves (in 20 years of riding) get holes in them last season after 3 weeks of riding powder. There sre gloves with a 'lifetime warranty'. 

Sorry kids, most large companies stuff seems to be going downhill.


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## Cr0_Reps_Smit (Jun 27, 2009)

anti-bling said:


> nowhere did he say he hit rocks, sounds like he rode it normally.
> 
> I had my first air of gloves (in 20 years of riding) get holes in them last season after 3 weeks of riding powder. There sre gloves with a 'lifetime warranty'.
> 
> Sorry kids, most large companies stuff seems to be going downhill.


then warranty them?


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## Leo (Nov 24, 2009)

anti-bling said:


> nowhere did he say he hit rocks, sounds like he rode it normally.
> 
> I had my first air of gloves (in 20 years of riding) get holes in them last season after 3 weeks of riding powder. There sre gloves with a 'lifetime warranty'.
> 
> Sorry kids, most large companies stuff seems to be going downhill.


So in 20 years of riding, you get one problem and that automatically means that quality is going downhill? Have you ever considered that because these manufacturers are so big and are manufacturing so many products, that there are more defects? Does this mean that their quality dropped? Certainly not. In fact, I am willing to bet money that their defect ratio is lower than ever. I'm also positive that their quality is actually better due to wealth of these big companies. They can afford better R&D teams and facilities. They have the equipment to test products. Ride has a crazy nice R&D facility. I'm sure Burton's is even bigger and better.

The real dilemma at hand isn't that quality is dropping; it's that consumers are expecting more and more out of the companies. There was a point in time when innovations were big and rampant in the snowboarding industry. Burton was constantly revolutionizing snowboard tech. Now the market is flooded with so many great snowboard manufacturers. You can only innovate so much before a plateau is reached. This is a snowboard, not a computer after all. I believe the problem lies in the fact that you expect these big names to keep up the pace of innovation that you have become comfortable with. The quality isn't declining, you're expectations are just rising.

I can never understand people that deem an entire snowboard brand as having bad boards when they obviously have not demoed them all. We aren't talking about Lamar or Bitchboards here.

I dare you to come up with some solid evidence that a Burton Joystick or Custom X is low quality. Did one break on you? What the hell did you do to it? Did you use the warranty and get it replaced?

I had a defective iPhone that I returned for another one. My replacement has been running solid for a year now. Shit happens especially with large companies. Instead of knocking the entire brand, make use of their warranties. Better yet, if you are a really aggressive, bonk everything, shred every terrain, type of rider who doesn't want to hurt their snowboard, you might need to consider a different sport.

Ask any of the hardcore shredders here and then ask how many times they have damaged their board. I'm sure KillClimbz has plenty of these stories.

There is no such thing as an invincible product. Look what happened to the Titanic.


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## thetraveler (Feb 24, 2010)

Leo said:


> So in 20 years of riding, you get one problem and that automatically means that quality is going downhill? Have you ever considered that because these manufacturers are so big and are manufacturing so many products, that there are more defects? Does this mean that their quality dropped? Certainly not. In fact, I am willing to bet money that their defect ratio is lower than ever. I'm also positive that their quality is actually better due to wealth of these big companies. They can afford better R&D teams and facilities. They have the equipment to test products. Ride has a crazy nice R&D facility. I'm sure Burton's is even bigger and better.


Don't take this personally but you sound a little naive. Companies, especially big ones, exploit consumerism to boost profits. In layman's terms they'll sell you stuff that breaks faster so you replace it faster.

I'm not saying I know whether the quality has gone up or down. I'm saying you and everybody else don't know unless they conducted a proper empirical test. Talking about it without having the facts is a waste of fucking time. BurtonAvenger might have access to Burton's product testing/defect/warranty data?


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## Leo (Nov 24, 2009)

thetraveler said:


> Don't take this personally but you sound a little naive. Companies, especially big ones, exploit consumerism to boost profits. In layman's terms they'll sell you stuff that breaks faster so you replace it faster.
> 
> I'm not saying I know whether the quality has gone up or down. I'm saying you and everybody else don't know unless they conducted a proper empirical test. Talking about it without having the facts is a waste of fucking time. BurtonAvenger might have access to Burton's product testing/defect/warranty data?


Your post belongs in a conspiracy forum. If you want to live life in that kind of paranoia, be my guest.

I in fact do have facts. I work for a retailer and I'm surrounded by many people who constantly make trips to these factories. Hence my Ride R&D facility comment. Our employees are also shown videos of these facilities that buyers/managers have visited. Obviously we don't get all the logistics of the facilities because they don't want that type of information to be public. This is also the same reason that these videos are brief and only show a small segment of the bigger picture.

I also demo many boards. BA demos a shit ton more. He is also far more experienced than I am and rides whatever board performs well for him regardless of the Big Brand Names.

So my question to you is: why would these companies spend millions of dollars on product testing machinery and computers only to sell you a low quality product? Your argument is only feasible for low-end, entry level products. A board like the Custom-X definitely is not an entry level board.

Don't counter someone else statement by telling them to show facts when you make a comment without facts yourself. So in the same breath as you, I ask you to show me the facts that prove that snowboard companies sell you shit that breaks purposely.

Which by the way would be a really poor business strategy considering a lot of snowboarders own multiple boards and would upgrade to a new one in a few years regardless of breakage.

EDIT: Just to add... You can't have empirical data for everything. That isn't possible. You need to take in all of the other factors and make an educated guess. There is no empirical data that proves we evolved from primates. But there is a whole of evidence pointing to that.

You have a negative view on business based on your comment. Like I said, it's a conspiracy theory. The more logical approach to your school of thought is that big brand companies make products, but limit the features. Limiting the features/upgrades you put on your product allows you to release a product with those added features later on. Prime example is again the iPhone. The whole 3G, 3GS, better megapixel camera, etc...

In the snowboard world, it is the same. Our buyers last visit to the Ride facility showcased the R&D team already testing out 2012 products. They were nearly finished products. She is even a part of the focus group that helps the designer to design the graphics.

Making products that are meant to break down so you can upgrade in the future? Unlikely. Making quality products, but holding off on some better features so you have something better to release in the near future? Highly likely. Of course this all breaks down when you have a game changing innovation at hand.

Here's a quote to remember: "If coincidence is a possibility, then it isn't 100% fact."

1+1=2 is a fact. There is no way that equation is true due to coincidence.


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## thetraveler (Feb 24, 2010)

Leo said:


> Your post belongs in a conspiracy forum. If you want to live life in that kind of paranoia, be my guest.
> 
> I in fact do have facts. I work for a retailer and I'm surrounded by many people who constantly make trips to these factories. Hence my Ride R&D facility comment. Our employees are also shown videos of these facilities that buyers/managers have visited. Obviously we don't get all the logistics of the facilities because they don't want that type of information to be public. This is also the same reason that these videos are brief and only show a small segment of the bigger picture.
> 
> ...



WOW. You win. You're right and I'm wrong.

All I am saying is everyone should keep an open mind. I clearly failed in your case. I'm not on either side of the argument. I don't have any facts and I don't care enough to look for them. Just be aware you still haven't produced any facts and you're throwing your weight behind your opinion like its the gospel truth.


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## Leo (Nov 24, 2009)

thetraveler said:


> WOW. You win. You're right and I'm wrong.
> 
> All I am saying is everyone should keep an open mind. I clearly failed in your case. I'm not on either side of the argument. I don't have any facts and I don't care enough to look for them. Just be aware you still haven't produced any facts and you're throwing your weight behind your opinion like its the gospel truth.


I already told you that I can't throw those facts around. Perhaps BA can because he doesn't work for a retailer that deals with these snowboard brands.

All you can do is either take my word for it or not. You're the one that called me out so I shared my knowledge with you. Plain and simple. You can't go around asking for facts about everything. Read my edit in that post if you didn't already. I explain why.

If negativity is your mindset, then that's your problem. I'm not doubting that there aren't ANY companies that do what you say, but it's most certainly not the majority.

Fact: Levi laid off more than 20,000 workers in 2003 as a result of plant shut downs in preparation of off-shore production. Unethical right? On the surface, yes. However, when you look into it, Levi gave all of the employees severance packages and paid for their re-training for future jobs. They also donated to the communities that these plants were located in. They didn't have to do any of this. Also, they made very strict guidelines for the overseas facilities. They paid much more than the standard in the country and provided clean work places. Levi has long been regarded as the most ethical big brand business.

Why am I telling you this? Not to try and prove you wrong. I'm simply asking that you take your own advice and open your mind. What looks unethical and negative on the surface might not actually be that underneath. If Levi didn't do what they did, they would have went out of business causing more workers to lose their jobs. And those workers wouldn't have received any sort of compensation.


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## Liv4Sno (Apr 1, 2010)

I think Burton has a good warrantee. I know it is lifetime on their bindings. If not, I have a board for sale for you:

http://www.snowboardingforum.com/buy-sell-snowboard-equipment/28466-gnu-chb-w-burton-mission-bindings.html#post289806

This way if you break it, it won't break your bank.


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## SnowBrdScotty (Apr 4, 2009)

Leo said:


> So in 20 years of riding, you get one problem and that automatically means that quality is going downhill? Have you ever considered that because these manufacturers are so big and are manufacturing so many products, that there are more defects? Does this mean that their quality dropped? Certainly not. In fact, I am willing to bet money that their defect ratio is lower than ever. I'm also positive that their quality is actually better due to wealth of these big companies. They can afford better R&D teams and facilities. They have the equipment to test products. Ride has a crazy nice R&D facility. I'm sure Burton's is even bigger and better.
> 
> The real dilemma at hand isn't that quality is dropping; it's that consumers are expecting more and more out of the companies. There was a point in time when innovations were big and rampant in the snowboarding industry. Burton was constantly revolutionizing snowboard tech. Now the market is flooded with so many great snowboard manufacturers. You can only innovate so much before a plateau is reached. This is a snowboard, not a computer after all. I believe the problem lies in the fact that you expect these big names to keep up the pace of innovation that you have become comfortable with. The quality isn't declining, you're expectations are just rising.
> 
> ...



there are some 2010 boards from Burton that been having cracking like top sheet. not sure if it was joystick or elfv and he isn't the only one having this issue. these crack you can't do it if you wanted to. it's on easylougin.


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## BurtonAvenger (Aug 14, 2007)

Why does everyone just assume I have these statistics? I worked in a shop, I dealt with warranties, shit fucking happens. At the end of a day it's a snowboard it's designed to be ridden and destroyed. There's no guarantee that rider x is harder on his gear than rider y or that board a is designed to fail after 25 days while board B is meant to last 50.

Shit breaks and given the amount of people that get retarded with their gear it's a given. Trust me if someone can break it they will it's inevitable. No product is without its faults. Look at all you NS fanboys on here that brag about how great their decks are and how they're indestructable. Wow if that's the case why did I push the base of the 2011 Heritage up through the topsheet? What about snapping the nose on my circuit r? Breaking the core in my premier f1? Does this mean that because I've broken 3 decks that they're inferior? What about the two Omatic Awesomes I blew apart in the dead center both were separate years? How about bending my sidewall up on my Wiggle Stick? I snapped the core on my Jibpan lengthwise in the tail does that mean they're inferior? No every one of those has a true story behind what happened. The percentage of people that actually get a product that is a true manufacturing defect is 1% maybe 2%. Everyone is actually making a good product these days with in reason (i.e. bitch boards and small crap companies like that) factories are dialed in with how they make shit. R & D is there to help build better products. 

The problem is exactly what Leo mentioned, Joe Blow consumer feels they're entitled to a better warranty than is given. Go read a snowboard warranty some time you'd be surprised what it'll actually cover. Part of the fault lies on the companies with their over production. For years they've generously given away warranties on shit they shouldn't. I once warrantied a board that had a small chip in the topsheet cause the kid ran into a rail. K2 gave him a new deck we couldn't believe it. Now that the big recession is happening they're getting stricter, which frankly needs to be done. 

Let me give you guys an example 3 years ago I sold a Burton Custom with some Triads to Joe Blow from Kansas while they were up here on vacation. 4 hours later Joe Blow shows up with Joe Daddy screaming at me that I sold his son a faulty snowboard and that we need to stand behind the products we sold blah blah blah. His excuse for the fact his nose was folded in half was that his son was "just riding along" and it broke. Now anyone with a brain knows that's not the case. So anyways I calmly explained to them what a warranty covers, they go apeshit demand management. Assistant manager tells them what a warranty covers and that its impact. This isn't good enough for them so they get the GM involved he does the same and we all tell them with a Burton warranty it's far easier to deal with Burton directly than it is to go through us we give them the proper stuff to take care of it. Scene escalates and while they're screaming at management I flip the deck over and there's a 3 inch wood splinter sticking out of the base, now how did that get there? Joe Blow Junior was off lumberjacking that's how. So long story short since they're on vacation Burton ended up crediting us on our account to take care of what we all knew and told Burton was a blatant impact damage. Should they have covered it? OH fuck no but they did it to keep them and us happy. But the moral of the story is that Joe Blow Consumer feels that everything they do to their deck should be warrantied. 

I'll be honest warranties are one of the reasons I don't want to work in a shop anymore. I'm sick of getting reamed out day in and day out by idiot consumers that hit rocks, trees, have their boards fly off their roof rack on the highway (yes had this happen), and anything else you can imagine.

So what does a warranty cover? It covers any form of a manufacturing defect. Notice that word "manufacturing" so you take your new Capita Stairmaster for a spin and the whole topsheet blows off that's a manufacturing defect. Hitting rocks, jibs, or anything other than gliding on snow and turning is a void of the warranty. 

Here's another thing how many people are riding boards that aren't designed for what they're doing? I know that's how I killed a few decks if I had been riding something a little beefier it would have survived. 

And just to know most products are designed around the average rider these days. The average rider goes something like 5 to 10 days this is the true core consumer and who needs to be catered to. Does it suck for people like me? Yeah but I've learned to live with it, the problem is the people that go from being an average rider to getting in an absurd amount of days and suddenly a product fails them. News flash it's not the product it's you as a rider you just out grew what it was built for.


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## Deviant (Dec 22, 2009)

First of all, now that I re-read the original post. That entire crock of sh!t in 4 paragraphs could've been summed up in about 2 sentences. 

"My board is having an issue with the base/core. Could you please replace my defective board?"

Done.

The OP views changed that quickly from one defect which may or may not have been caused by him? God, one of the goodyear tires on my car got a flat, I'll never buy them again 

Second, is it really inconceivable to some of you that a company cannot produce 100% perfect product? In fact, show me ONE factory that has never let something slip through the cracks, without defects or mistakes. Not saying a lot get through, but some do, it's part of manufacturing. When this happens in mass-numbers it'll be recalled, but a board going bad every now and again is nothing to get your panties in a bunch over. Over the years I've owned boards from numerous major companies, and will tell you I've never had a major problem from any of them NOT caused by me. You get a defective board, so what, get it replaced. 

It gets dumber..



> When examining Burton pipe glove the weakest part of the glove, which was never the case with previous design, and the most likely to rip is the area between the thumb and index finger. This area corresponds to the most frequently ripped part of my gloves and friends gloves that have rips as well. In addition this area of the glove is the one part of the glove that comes in contact with the sharp metal edge of the snowboard when a grab is preformed. I have lost faith in your gloves based on these facts.


He seems to know a lot about gloves, but why did he buy them if this weak spot is the worst area? This guy sounds like the typical internet buyer, who buys everything the same brand without looking, without thinking, without trying, without any other reason that it is the brand he's chosen to stick himself with. I wonder how his boots fit.


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## little devil (Aug 18, 2009)

WWWWWHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA! 









/thread


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## Reede (Feb 16, 2009)

This undeserved sense of entitlement consumers have is ridiculous.

If I spend a couple of weeks riding and notice at the end of it that my base has a gouge I think "Damn wish i'd have seen that rock". Instead I should change this to "I must find someone to blame for this, and possibly get a new board out of it"

That my friends, is a classic form of fraud. 
Your base is gouged, you ran over a rock or a stick or possibly an ice-mine but probably a rock or a stick. To say you rode on nothing but snow is a lie. The laws of physics don't lie, you do.

Talking to one of my local shop owners recently he had a Custom V rocker on his workbench that had snapped nose and broken highback. From hitting a tree and being crushed by a chairlift. He was speaking with confidence about how burton usually replaces these kinds of things even though they clearly don't have to. Why should this be rewarded with brand new gear?

That's the attitude that these selfish morons have, nobody takes responsibility for their own actions because they stand to profit from not and unfortunately the manufacturers have encouraged this kind of behaviour by honouring stupid claims. I hope they change their policy to outright telling people to fuck off. Screw trying to please those kinds of idiots, they will bleed you dry. I worked in retail for 8 years and witnessed the full range of consumer pettiness and selfishness. It's enough to damage your views on humanity as a whole.


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## BurtonAvenger (Aug 14, 2007)

^ And people wonder why I'm so burnt out on snow retail or on people in general. You grasp it.


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## COB (Mar 6, 2009)

BurtonAvenger said:


> I flip the deck over and there's a 3 inch wood splinter sticking out of the base.


Full disclosure: When we tried to get my old granny's heart valve warrantied, Burton was all like, "she's been griding rails on this heart valve." I was all like, "Those gouges are from where the surgeon had trouble installing it in her heart." Then they flip it over and, you guessed it, like a 4 inch splinter from a fir tree. Granny had been doing some gnarly jibbing on that heart valve.

Fucking Burton.


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## anti-bling (Apr 21, 2010)

Cr0_Reps_Smit said:


> then warranty them?


i am in Japan, and it was fukking ridiculous. I gave the back to the shop, and the sent them back, no problems. 2 weeks later (when i really needed the gloves) they send them back, saying they weren't covered by warranty. I got the number of the distro, and after a week of calling finally found the douchebag in charge of refusing my warranty and asked him how the hell holes appear in the palm of new gloves after only riding powder for 2 weeks. He apologized and sent me a new pair, which have been fine (different colorway=different material used on the palm)


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## anti-bling (Apr 21, 2010)

Leo said:


> So in 20 years of riding, you get one problem and that automatically means that quality is going downhill? Have you ever considered that because these manufacturers are so big and are manufacturing so many products, that there are more defects? Does this mean that their quality dropped? Certainly not. In fact, I am willing to bet money that their defect ratio is lower than ever. I'm also positive that their quality is actually better due to wealth of these big companies. They can afford better R&D teams and facilities. They have the equipment to test products. Ride has a crazy nice R&D facility. I'm sure Burton's is even bigger and better.
> 
> The real dilemma at hand isn't that quality is dropping; it's that consumers are expecting more and more out of the companies. There was a point in time when innovations were big and rampant in the snowboarding industry. Burton was constantly revolutionizing snowboard tech. Now the market is flooded with so many great snowboard manufacturers. You can only innovate so much before a plateau is reached. This is a snowboard, not a computer after all. I believe the problem lies in the fact that you expect these big names to keep up the pace of innovation that you have become comfortable with. The quality isn't declining, you're expectations are just rising.


 thats right, after 20 years, i don't have any kind of justifiable experience to base my opinions on.

The riding HAS changed, more tails and noses are sapped coming down off of big kickers. Thats not what i am talking about. Its general quality, things i've never seen or heard about before, like watching a fellow instructor put her thumb through a pair of 3L Goretex AK pants while wiping water off of them, things breaking down after half a season of use, goggle foam disintigrating, boot spines breaking, etc. Things that could very easily be avoided by better design/materials, but aren't because of cost-cutting.

A friend in the industry was talking to someone at Burton who admitted that they could make boards to last longer, but they don't, so they can sell more. Its not a conspiracy, its fukking called planned obsolescence, so that companies can make a quick buck.

You know as well as i do burton(as many other companies) checks how many boards it sells against how many warranties it gets, and makes stuff as cheaply as possible without increasing the warranties to unacceptable levels (you know, if we sell so much to the punter consumers at sports authority, how many of them are actually going to ride a park board in a park to the level its advertised for, and need to warranty it?)


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## anti-bling (Apr 21, 2010)

Liv4Sno said:


> I think Burton has a good warrantee. I know it is lifetime on their bindings. If not, I have a board for sale for you:
> 
> http://www.snowboardingforum.com/buy-sell-snowboard-equipment/28466-gnu-chb-w-burton-mission-bindings.html#post289806
> 
> This way if you break it, it won't break your bank.


lifetime is only on the baseplates


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## Leo (Nov 24, 2009)

anti-bling said:


> thats right, after 20 years, i don't have any kind of justifiable experience to base my opinions on.


Never said anything about your credibility. All I said was that in 20 years, you have one issue with a product. You take that issue and then turn it into some conspiracy about a company purposely making faulty products. 

Sorry, but you are a rider that does not see the light behind closed doors. I've already stated that I'm surrounded by people who visits these companies' facilities. It makes absolutely no sense to me that they would spend millions upon millions on quality testing machinery just to make less quality products? :dunno:

On top of that, they orchestrate demos across the world so that riders can test their products before it is released.

Some of your claims sound a little vague. That instructor putting her thumb through a pair of pants? She probably wore the material out in that area. Falls, catching branches, or even over-washing all deteriorate the material. The ass of my 2007 Burton pants are wearing out now. I'm sure the same thing is going to happen to me soon. Is it because Burton's quality sucks? No. It's because I fell more times than I can count on that ass.

Goggle foam disintegrating? That's a little odd. Perhaps the person should take better care of the goggles since it probably accumulates massive amounts of sweat. Even then, are goggles really that expensive to replace? How durable do you expect the foam to be anyway? I'm sure they can put some really tough foam on there, but I highly doubt it will be breathable or comfortable for that matter.

Don't you see, for every defect, there are hundreds more good products. Look at the bigger picture. There are way more products not breaking than there are that do break. Look at your glove replacement. Works fine you said.

By the way, a different color-way does not necessarily equal a different material. It will state that it is a different weave/material if that is indeed the case. Otherwise, they can't sell it as the same product as the other color.

Honestly, find another sport if you guys want to cry about products not lasting. I'm sure if you completely geared up in Burton products and sat at a desk all winter, you wouldn't have any issues whatsoever. Too bad this isn't the case. Shit happens, especially in snowboarding.

BTW: I'm sure they do cut corners with entry level products. But that makes nothing but sense. Why spend all that time, effort, and money on a board that is only going to get you a few dollars in profit. Hell, spend all the R&D efforts on it and you will come out with a negative margin.


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## lonestarrider (Jan 17, 2010)

anti-bling said:


> thats right, after 20 years, i don't have any kind of justifiable experience to base my opinions on.
> 
> The riding HAS changed, more tails and noses are sapped coming down off of big kickers. Thats not what i am talking about. Its general quality, things i've never seen or heard about before, like watching a fellow instructor put her thumb through a pair of 3L Goretex AK pants while wiping water off of them, things breaking down after half a season of use, goggle foam disintigrating, boot spines breaking, etc. Things that could very easily be avoided by better design/materials, but aren't because of cost-cutting.
> 
> ...


I highly, Highly, Highly ,Highly, higlhy, doubt your friend stuck there thumb through a pair of gore-tex pants. Gore tex is a very hearty material. It's main use is for medical applications, it is built to withstand and not be broken down by the human bodies highly acidic fluids. It is highly pliable, I doubt the pressure of your friends thumb is going to break the material. Please get educated before you start spewing disinformation all over the internet. Gore Medical


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## lisevolution (Sep 20, 2007)

I've been reading this thread since it started but haven't chimed in until now. While I've personally had a bunch of durability issues with Burton hard and soft goods in the past which is why I no longer buy their gear, my general feel for it is shit happens... I'm hard on my gear and their shit doesn't hold up to my use so I'll buy gear from other companies that do better to my apparantly harsh demands. That said I don't blame that 100% on Burton for making shitty gear, I would guess that the majority of people using exactly the same products the same way would not have the same issues I have had. You can't expect to use any type of gear from any brand and not have things break. People snap boards for a multitude of reasons and base gouges happen all the freaking time. Here on the east coast we're lucky if we get a 6" powder day and by the middle of that day it's all pretty much gone and we're back to riding ice and hard pack which then leads to thin cover and rocks, trees and other natural materials that exist on a MOUNTAIN screwing up the base. 

Shit happens, it's snowboarding. Sack up and stop blaming corporate conspiracy's for everything. Planned obsalescence exists in every industry, computers and electronics being the worst offenders, but when your DVD or BLu-Ray player breaks from just every day use and it isn't covered under warranty, you go buy another one... The same concepts should exist in snowboarding. If something breaks as a true defect than by all means you should be covered if you fuck it up, that's your fault and don't blame the company


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## anti-bling (Apr 21, 2010)

lonestarrider said:


> I highly, Highly, Highly ,Highly, higlhy, doubt your friend stuck there thumb through a pair of gore-tex pants. Gore tex is a very hearty material. It's main use is for medical applications, it is built to withstand and not be broken down by the human bodies highly acidic fluids. It is highly pliable, I doubt the pressure of your friends thumb is going to break the material. Please get educated before you start spewing disinformation all over the internet. Gore Medical


I was there when she did it.

gore-tex can be applied to a wide variety of textiles. There is that really thin light stuff (which may ohave been what her pants were made of), and there is more durable stuff as well.


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## BurtonAvenger (Aug 14, 2007)

Two things everyones missing.

Gear is built for the average Joe not anyone that's out there 100 plus days. Why do you think I end up obliterating gear. The other thing is companies have been too nice with warranties and what people feel they can get from it. Take that into consideration and there you go. 

/thread


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## Liv4Sno (Apr 1, 2010)

Reede said:


> "Damn wish i'd have seen that rock". Instead I should change this to "I must find someone to blame for this, and possibly get a new board out of it"


That's the best line in this whole thread. I dinged my new TRS on the 1st ride out with it. I thought about sending it back to The House, but I knew it was my fault so marine grade epoxy became my warranty.


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## Reede (Feb 16, 2009)

I just hate how people think they can get away with telling stories like that, do they actually think people will believe them? Well theyre not actually expecting them to believe it, they are just banking on the store attendant not bothering to put up a fight. Something that I surprised people with a lot while working in retail, when they came to me with bullshit returns, no matter how trivial they were I took a lot of pleasure in politely telling them when they have no right to return something. Some peoples sense of entitlement to things they dont deserve is just so fucked up.

I am quite particular about my gear, I can tell you now that the main gouges in the base of my reasonably new boards were due to: 
1: Slipping on a patch of ice and dropping it in the carpark at Niseko
2: Rock at Thredbo
3: Rock at Cardrona
4: Tree stump at Rusutsu

All of those moments I remember quite vividly because half of them resulted in me landing on my face, and the other half on my ass. You know about it when you hit a rock. To say say your base got gouged without hitting anything is such a blatant lie. 

God I don't miss working in retail.


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## agoodwin727 (Jan 26, 2009)

BurtonAvenger said:


> The average rider goes something like 5 to 10 days this is the true core consumer and who needs to be catered to. Does it suck for people like me? Yeah but I've learned to live with it, the problem is the people that go from being an average rider to getting in an absurd amount of days and suddenly a product fails them. News flash it's not the product it's you as a rider you just out grew what it was built for.


"

this is the other side of what everyone bitching and defending these huge companies are saying. The fact is, burton, ride, etc. make products for the "average joe" consumer, but market them like they're made for professionals. The blame can be spread everywhere. When a customer buys a board that they see friggin Jeremy Jones doing cliff bombs on, and it breaks when they try to replicate that, you can expect them to be a little miffed. ESPECIALLY (this goes to you retail guys) when the burton rep ASSURED them that they were buying the TOP QUALITY BRAND and that they should expect nothing less. Face it guys, these companies and their reps sell these like theyre made of gold, but refuse to back them up because they know in fact they're not made as well as they could be. It's a fact. Yes, customers bitch and moan when they break things, and emotions certainly get in the way. But it's not completely their fault.


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## Reede (Feb 16, 2009)

Its not like snowboards are fragile tho, considering the job they do I think they hold up pretty damn well.

If they were designed to last forever then they would cost a hell of a lot more. There are so many sides to consider, market forces that make nearly every industry trend towards a particular standard.


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## Leo (Nov 24, 2009)

agoodwin727 said:


> "
> 
> this is the other side of what everyone bitching and defending these huge companies are saying. The fact is, burton, ride, etc. make products for the "average joe" consumer, but market them like they're made for professionals. The blame can be spread everywhere. When a customer buys a board that they see friggin Jeremy Jones doing cliff bombs on, and it breaks when they try to replicate that, you can expect them to be a little miffed. ESPECIALLY (this goes to you retail guys) when the burton rep ASSURED them that they were buying the TOP QUALITY BRAND and that they should expect nothing less. Face it guys, these companies and their reps sell these like theyre made of gold, but refuse to back them up because they know in fact they're not made as well as they could be. It's a fact. Yes, customers bitch and moan when they break things, and emotions certainly get in the way. But it's not completely their fault.


Nobody is defending huge companies. We are defending all snowboard companies. Do you honestly believe a small niche company like say NeverSummer makes top-of-line invincible products? Want to know why you don't hear as many cases of NS boards breaking as companies like Ride or Burton? Because there are literally thousands more Rides and Burtons being used out there. NS is a very small percentage of the snowboard market. Why do you think their boards have this "high quality" label to them? A lot of you are looking at this subjectively.

None of you have yet to answer my question. Why in the world would any company spend millions of dollars on testing equipment if their goal was to sell you absolute crap products?

There is no doubt that entry level products are low quality. Why should they be high quality? Do you really think it's a good business practice to make an amazingly high quality entry level snowboard when you know the consumer is going to move onto a more advanced board next season? Do you realize the time and money it takes to develop snowboards and produce them? Do you realize how much money needs to be spent on payroll to do this? And do you honestly think that if a brand like NeverSummer blew up into a huge company, they would be any different from K2?

This is why NS is a niche brand right now. They are using their small company image to grab the consumers that are anti-name-brand. I am willing to bet that if NS becomes a hugely successful company, the next generation of snowboarders will be hating on it like you are hating on Burton today. That's just a sad reality of a lot of consumer's mindsets.

You hear so many stories about big brand snowboard companies having defects and failures so you blame it on some wild story of them purposely building products that break after limited usage. But then you are quick to jump on a Capita or NeverSummer. Makes no sense to me whatsoever. In the same breath, I highly doubt you guys do this with cars. Or else DaeWoo would never have went under. Actually, a few Saturns are DaeWoos (just a side fact for you).

Want to hear something else that was absurd to me? I read in another forum, people trying to claim that Shaun White uses a different board other than the one that Burton sells to the public. Their reasoning? They didn't see him using the ICS. No fucking kidding. Like the guy can't use his Missions with adapter plates. Do you see what jumping to wild conclusions is like now? A closer examination of some of his recent photos and you'll see the ICS channel on the board. He just chooses not to rock the EST bindings. Makes perfect sense to me. He's been winning this long without it. Why change it? He has more to lose changing to a radically different system than the average Joe.


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## BurtonAvenger (Aug 14, 2007)

OK example but I know for a fact NS doesn't want to get any bigger they're perfectly content with their size.


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## Donutz (May 12, 2010)

Reede said:


> All of those moments I remember quite vividly because half of them resulted in me landing on my face, and the other half on my ass. You know about it when you hit a rock. To say say your base got gouged without hitting anything is such a blatant lie.
> 
> God I don't miss working in retail.


I know for a fact that gremlins come out at night and gouge my board. I have pictures, but I left them in my other pants 

I hear you about retail.


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## Leo (Nov 24, 2009)

BurtonAvenger said:


> OK example but I know for a fact NS doesn't want to get any bigger they're perfectly content with their size.


I'm sure they are. They have that niche market down in an arm bar.


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## thetraveler (Feb 24, 2010)

Leo said:


> None of you have yet to answer my question. Why in the world would any company spend millions of dollars on testing equipment if their goal was to sell you absolute crap products?


Firstly, I don't think anyone was saying Burton sell you absolute crap products. One argument could be if you're not making something that's absolute crap but something that has limited (read defined) durability and longevity then surely you'd want precise and expensive instruments to make sure the product is to your defined and limited standards. 

Secondly, Burton have many manufacturing facilities and not all products are made at every facility. It is plausible they showcase the facilities where they make the Vapor, T6, Custom X, Feelgood (these are the only boards that are made at the BMC facility) and other top-of-the-line, you-need-to-re-mortgage-your-house-to-buy-it kind of products. In theory, the other facilities could be a lot shittier.



Leo said:


> Do you realize the time and money it takes to develop snowboards and produce them? Do you realize how much money needs to be spent on payroll to do this?


I don't know but please tell.


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## killclimbz (Aug 10, 2007)

I find it strange that the OP has never returned to post anything else in this thread. 

I am not really a fan of Burton at all, but the the original post is bullshit.


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## killclimbz (Aug 10, 2007)

Also, Neversummer has also gone to great pains to maintain their small niche. Though they are smaller production runs, their quality is way above average too. They press skis for other boutique companies, and even do some other custom work outside of snowboarding. This is how they can grow their business without increasing their production of their board line. The owners seem to be really on top of it, and I for one like how they are doing it. Smart people them Neversummer boys and girls...


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## anti-bling (Apr 21, 2010)

Leo said:


> Nobody is defending huge companies. We are defending all snowboard companies. Do you honestly believe a small niche company like say NeverSummer makes top-of-line invincible products? Want to know why you don't hear as many cases of NS boards breaking as companies like Ride or Burton? Because there are literally thousands more Rides and Burtons being used out there. NS is a very small percentage of the snowboard market. Why do you think their boards have this "high quality" label to them? A lot of you are looking at this subjectively.
> 
> None of you have yet to answer my question. Why in the world would any company spend millions of dollars on testing equipment if their goal was to sell you absolute crap products?
> 
> ...


There is a big difference between small companies like Neversummer and Smokin who stay small and make higher-quality products (where is Burton's 3-year warranty? They could do it if they wanted) and big companies like Burton and k2.

The smaller companies have yet to sell out, by which i mean trying to reach such a large part of the market that they let quality go and start catering more to fashion and shareholders. Which means more boards are parts start getting made overseas, by people who never see snow, simply because they can pay those people less and make boards cheaper.

Which is not to say every US-made board is automatically better than a Chinese-made one (the weakest board i ever had was a LT Scotty Whittelake, made stateside), but in general it shows the lengths companies are willing to go to to make a buck. Quality is part of this.
R&D that you keep flogging is not just how to make the product better and last longer (otherwise Burton would be doing 3-year warranties as well), it is also seeing how much they can do with different builds (and cheaper construction). 

If the smaller companies started selling out their roots and making boards for market share rather than quality (because seriously, how much fukking money do you actually need?) the i would hate on them too. Same story, I used to ride Burton exclusively, pretty much from 89 to 99, until i saw the quality drop away. The fact that Burton purposefully tries to deceive consumers by portraying itself as a 'core' brand and having much of its stuff made in China, stinks of crass consumerism and shady ethics. Not snowboarding.


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## SnowBrdScotty (Apr 4, 2009)

lonestarrider said:


> I highly, Highly, Highly ,Highly, higlhy, doubt your friend stuck there thumb through a pair of gore-tex pants. Gore tex is a very hearty material. It's main use is for medical applications, it is built to withstand and not be broken down by the human bodies highly acidic fluids. It is highly pliable, I doubt the pressure of your friends thumb is going to break the material. Please get educated before you start spewing disinformation all over the internet. Gore Medical


gor tex might be "hearty material" but is everything else that's used to put them together gor tex? send me $40 bucks ill send you some burton gor tex gloves that ripped on me. you just need a needle to put it back together i'm just lazy to do it. they look brand new.

not hating on burton. their flannels are very well made.


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## thetraveler (Feb 24, 2010)

Leo said:


> You hear so many stories about big brand snowboard companies having defects and failures so you blame it on some wild story of them purposely building products that break after limited usage.


I had a personal experience where I found Burton's product design a little suspect. I bought AK 2L Stagger jacket and pants. This product, in Burton's own words: "Worn daily and tested relentlessly in the planet's most demanding environments by professional mountain guides and team riders like Terje Haakonsen and Jeremy Jones, the entire package is backed by a LIFETIME WARRANTY." 

In other words, Burton are pretty much saying its bullet-proof. Well, it fucking isn't. After only 30 days of riding I had holes in the outer shell, one just above my jacket side pocket and one on the bum part of the trousers. These are not unusual places for wear and tear to occur (one's the place you carry your board and the other is the place you park your ass - on and off the snow). So, you'd think with all that time they spent in the snowboarding industry (over 30 years now) and all that money and testing equipment, Burton might have come up with the idea to reinforce those areas with extra material at very marginal extra cost, without reducing comfort, flexibility, maneuvrability, breathability or any other shit reason you might find not to do it. I'd say that is fishy product design.

If they do this sort of stuff on their outerwear then one wouldn't be wrong to think maybe this practice extends to their other products?


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## Deviant (Dec 22, 2009)

Lets clarify something here, a major reason people say burtons are less-reliable is due to the sell-out factor of the company and the second they hear bad press they jump on the bandwagon. When they hear the "cool kids" in the park talking about a company is this or that, they jump on. Don't believe me, ask yourself why there's new posts here everyday asking you and me what board they should buy. Yes some of you do know about the statement speaking about could they make boards more reliable, but 95% of them do not. Do you hear this much about the other big name manufactures quality? Not really. Have the majority of people(I'm not speaking of those of you in this thread) bad mouthing quality ever had a bad experience with them? Doubt it. Do the other big name companies that you don't hear this talk about mass produce as much as burton? Probably.

Burton was one of the first names in snowboarding in terms of companies. Did you really not expect them to go as big as they have? It is a business, should ALL sports companies stay true to their roots, of course, and I respect NS way more in terms of the way they run things. Fact of the matter is my next board is the Evo after riding a buddies, however 2 seasons on my (less superior) X8 and it has held up perfectly.

I'll say it again, the OP is an idiot who did nothing but buy burton products for years, with no problems, then had one bad experience and got his panties in a bunch. :cheeky4:

I wonder how many people have tried to warranty their NS for a problem THEY caused that would be similar to a "quality issue" with one of the big name companies...


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## anti-bling (Apr 21, 2010)

i want to clarify something right here

Who said the OP's board warranty problem was caused by him? How do we know its not legit? He never mentioned hitting anything, nor does the dimpling in his board sound like a normal impact damage issue.


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## BurtonAvenger (Aug 14, 2007)

I'll tell you right now since I have 145 days on snow in CO this year. The dents he's talking about are more than likely caused by two things 1. being he hit a lot of dead fall which with the snow coverage from this year I have a ton of those as well shit guess I should warranty my 2011 stuff already 2. he left an iron sitting on his base or had it sitting next to some form of a heating element. Years of dealing with warranty claims I pretty much dispelled what he was saying in my first post and by his own admission he is an aggressive rider.


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## Deviant (Dec 22, 2009)

Edit: Not sure if that was directed at me anti-bling but if so...

Did I say it was caused by him? No. What I meant was why all of a sudden the negative comment about their quality when he himself says he's been representing the burton line of boards for 15 years. Assuming 15 years of riding with multiple boards and one problem with a board means it's shit? If anything he's lucky for not having a notable board issue in 15 years, and if you read my other post I said why didn't he warranty the board when the issue arose.


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## anti-bling (Apr 21, 2010)

Sorry, i head misread your post, thought you implied otherwise.


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## Deviant (Dec 22, 2009)

no worries


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## Leo (Nov 24, 2009)

thetraveler said:


> Firstly, I don't think anyone was saying Burton sell you absolute crap products. One argument could be if you're not making something that's absolute crap but something that has limited (read defined) durability and longevity then surely you'd want precise and expensive instruments to make sure the product is to your defined and limited standards.
> 
> Secondly, Burton have many manufacturing facilities and not all products are made at every facility. It is plausible they showcase the facilities where they make the Vapor, T6, Custom X, Feelgood (these are the only boards that are made at the BMC facility) and other top-of-the-line, you-need-to-re-mortgage-your-house-to-buy-it kind of products. In theory, the other facilities could be a lot shittier.
> 
> ...


Wow, so they spend millions of dollars on quality testing equipment to make sure that equipment breaks down after a certain amount of time? Plausible, but highly doubtful.

Again, you give examples that border paranoia. Since you think this way, I suggest you stop buying shit in this world since all these big businesses are out to get you.

By the way, didn't I already state that it makes absolute sense for companies to concentrate on high quality on their higher end products? Why would they spend so much time, money, and effort on making a Burton Clash top-of-the line quality when they sell it as a beginner's board?

HowStuffWorks Videos "How It's Made: Snowboard"
Snowboard Factory

And to answer you question about the budget of snowboard companies... I am not privileged to exact numbers, but let me outline some of the major money sucking aspects.

Research and Development: Payroll is going to have scientists and engineers. They aren't cheap. The bigger the company, the bigger the R&D team. Let's not forget the manual laborers in these facilities as well.

Buildings and Factories: Should speak for itself. They either have to rent or purchase buildings. A lot of big businesses like Oakley custom build their offices. Oakley's is particularly insane. We aren't talking chump change here.

Parts and Manufacturing: Wood. Where do they get it from? It isn't free. Machinery. *One* ski boot testing machine costs in upwards of $100,000. This one is fact. That piece of info was shared with our boss during a trip to the Nordica facilities. Interesting side fact from this. Although Technica owns Nordica and both share an R&D building, they are separated. They are not allowed to share info with each other in order to create competition.

Marketing: Huge chunk of change to market the "inferior" product you speak of. This includes sponsoring famous riders which, as you should obviously know, isn't chump change either.

All this for what??? To sell you a product that is built to last only a couple of years? For what reason? To piss you off and lose you as a customer? Bullshit.

Do you know why smaller companies give you longer warranties? BECAUSE THEY CAN AFFORD IT. This goes back to my example of there being far more Burtons than NeverSummer. Imagine warrantying millions of boards per year compared to warrantying just hundreds. I don't know exact figures for this, but I'm sure I'm in the right ballpark.


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## BurtonAvenger (Aug 14, 2007)

Two years ago NS said they warrantied something like 118 decks total for the season. When my friend Jen worked in the Burton Warranty department she said they were handling like 50 decks a day, but not all were warrantied.


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## TMXMOTORSPORTS (Jun 10, 2009)

my head hurts


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## Leo (Nov 24, 2009)

TMXMOTORSPORTS said:


> my head hurts


Flow Sucks! One of the screws came loose in my old Flite 1s 5 seasons ago! The company's quality is going downhill because they are mass producing crap that is built to break down after exactly 30 days on the snow!

I'm going to buy those bindings that were created by ex-Drake employees. What are they called again? Funions?


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## TMXMOTORSPORTS (Jun 10, 2009)

Leo said:


> Flow Sucks!
> 
> I'm going to buy those bindings that were created by ex-Drake employees. What are they called again? Funions?


I hate Funions they taste like Shit but that is my opinion.:laugh:


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## Guest (May 23, 2010)

*Hey Timmy*



TMXMOTORSPORTS said:


> my head hurts


A head like that is gonna hurt.......


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## TMXMOTORSPORTS (Jun 10, 2009)

ShutYourPieHole said:


> A head like that is gonna hurt.......


WORD...how is your T6?....


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## Guest (May 23, 2010)

TMXMOTORSPORTS said:


> WORD...how is your T6?....


Phucking dusty, and dented.....I'd post a pic but I'm 3500 miles away from it....


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## SHREDDER97 (Aug 1, 2010)

just buy a burton joystick and ull never ask anymore questions


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