# Union MC vs. Union SL



## Megatron X (Apr 27, 2012)

I was thinking about getting the Union MC binding because prices are coming down and it's a "premium" binding but I was ready about people experience with them and it seems to be a fragile binding where the heelcup seems to break. So I was wondering if the Union SL would be a better fit due to durability. Any thoughts?


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## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

I had SL's once. I think I sold them for $40 as I felt that's all they were worth, and gave 2 other pairs I had away for a borrowed pass and I think some Vans. Oh and I only rode the SL's like 4 days. I'll warn you though, I'm basically anti Union. I've ridden everything in their line except Flites and MC's, just lost "faith" I guess when I really started trying other companies. Union just doesn't stack up for me. Great durability in my experience though.

Now, what are these going on?


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## Megatron X (Apr 27, 2012)

Thinking of putting them on a YES. Pick Your Line. Right now I have some Ride Maestros on it. Want something more responsive for the board. I settled on the Maestros because they were dirt cheap.


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## NWBoarder (Jan 10, 2010)

Out of the Unions listed, go with the SL's. Otherwise, try some Rome Targas, or Burton Cartels IMO.


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## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

Well then, more response than Maestro's...

Flow FRX, Flux DMCC, K2 Ever's (auto might kill this for you though), Salomon Caliber, Raiden Machines, or Burton Diode's (maybe Prophecy, the 2 part frame give a bit more laterally but is stiff stiff front to back).

As I said, I have not ridden MC's, but even Capo's are more responsive than the SL's were.


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## lernr (Feb 3, 2012)

I've ridden MC with 3 different boots (Burton Ruler, Deeluxe Spark, Vans Cirro) and find responsiveness varies with each boot, no matter how well you fit them.

Bindings felt great for freestyle / park with Ruler. Sparks + MC was awesome for freeride but sucked for park, and Cirro is somewhere in the middle.


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## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

lernr said:


> I've ridden MC with 3 different boots (Burton Ruler, Deeluxe Spark, Vans Cirro) and find responsiveness varies with each boot, no matter how well you fit them.
> 
> Bindings felt great for freestyle / park with Ruler. Sparks + MC was awesome for freeride but sucked for park, and Cirro is somewhere in the middle.


See, this to me says worlds about the binding. The Spark is Xaviers boot. Xavier bombs shit I can't even ride faster than I can mob a groomed steep. So the binding "feels" stiff, but the boot is doing all the work. The Ruler is a softer boot, so if its good for park with a boot that isn't stiff, means the binding isn't stiff. The Cirro is a stiffer boot for Vans, but its still Vans so its mid stiff comparatively. So there ya go. The binding isn't doing shit for you.

Experience seems to be showing the MC's for what I thought. Not responsive as I haven't ridden a single Union that really was.

I got better response out of Flow Quattro's than Data's.


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## Megatron X (Apr 27, 2012)

Hmm. Maybe I have to rethink the whole binding situation. I guess I can always wait until next year. But I'm guessing the general consensus is that the SL > MC but I should probably look elsewhere?


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## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

No the MC is "better" as its basically the exact same thing but lighter and with a stiffer highback. Its just that neither stack up to other options...

Really its just a design philosophy flaw of Union. They keep all their highbacks relatively soft torsionally. Great for park bindings but when you drive through a turn, especially heelside, you push out the top most outside corner of your highback. If the thing twists too much you get no support. So if you're riding a straight up center reverse then you're more than likely ok with a soft twisting highback, otherwise you'll be mushing it. Since this is for a Pick Your Line, camrock, I suggest something that wont fold when you push into the edges.

If you want to wait, the Charger's may finally be a binding from Union that doesn't suck, though the toe strap will still probably be ridiculous. The whole T.Rice thing is probably more marketing than meat, but it would be hard for me to say that its a musher like the rest of the line considering he seems to genuinely ride them. His caliber of riding really just will not put up with a mush binding, it would actually effect his ability to squeak out of sketchy things like he does. Of course I'm not talking about actual BC stuff as there is a fair chance he's secretly in like Sparks or something. Until Union started giving him moneys he was primarily in Cartels, which always have very solid construction.

Wait, get the new Burton Genesis with the floating 2 piece highback, and report back on how ridiculously unnecessary and odd it is.


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## lernr (Feb 3, 2012)

Nivek is right on: the (carbon) highback is not too rigid torsionally, that's why you could use the MC for park, and it will give in on a hard turn. Don't know about TRice, but JJ was rocking Spark binders a couple of seasons ago (I use them too for bc, and the new Burner straps + buckles by Burton are awesome!)

I wanted the MCs with the Vans Cirro boots - there are 2 removable stiffeners in each tongue, so I can choose how stiff I want them and even carry the pieces in my backpack to change mid-day, and that's without playing with the boa to tighten them more or less, very versatile. With MC On my Smokin Superpark + Vans Cirro, I can hit park, double diamonds + slack-country in the same day, on the same setup. Sure, I'd take my NS split + Spark Burners + Deeluxe Spark for a real backcountry day, and maybe even for a dedicated lift-served slack. But for anything else, I feel I can use just one setup. My only problem is that the Vans liner is not as good at locking my heel as either Deeluxe or Burton, I may need to switch or even buy a new Intuition liner next season

I would not be opposed to riding Burton Diode or similar as high end Burton binders are very solid. But Union is local and always treated me well, and this is important to me.


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## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

lernr said:


> Nivek is right on: the (carbon) highback is not too rigid torsionally, that's why you could use the MC for park, and it will give in on a hard turn. Don't know about TRice, but JJ was rocking Spark binders a couple of seasons ago (I use them too for bc, and the new Burner straps + buckles by Burton are awesome!)
> 
> I wanted the MCs with the Vans Cirro boots - there are 2 removable stiffeners in each tongue, so I can choose how stiff I want them and even carry the pieces in my backpack to change mid-day, and that's without playing with the boa to tighten them more or less, very versatile. With MC On my Smokin Superpark + Vans Cirro, I can hit park, double diamonds + slack-country in the same day, on the same setup. Sure, I'd take my NS split + Spark Burners + Deeluxe Spark for a real backcountry day, and maybe even for a dedicated lift-served slack. But for anything else, I feel I can use just one setup. My only problem is that the Vans liner is not as good at locking my heel as either Deeluxe or Burton, I may need to switch or even buy a new Intuition liner next season
> 
> I would not be opposed to riding Burton Diode or similar as high end Burton binders are very solid. But Union is local and always treated me well, and this is important to me.


Local? Last I checked they were made in China and the headquarters was in Austria... has this changed?

Also you don't need $300 bindings for that versatility. Get much better dampening, same versatility, and a worlds better toe strap and get Raiden Phantoms. Oh and save like $100 for weed or hoes or peyote or whatever you kids spend petty cash on these days


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## lernr (Feb 3, 2012)

I meant the c3 warehouse is local, they have Union and Capita. The techs are cool and I know someone on Union / Capita team and I like how they support local riders. 

The Phantoms look nice too, only the buckles look like they would suck some


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## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

They don't though. They're solid superness.


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## Extremo (Nov 6, 2008)

I ride the SL's on my all mountain board. Def quality bindings. Watch out for the Union haters on this site. It's like a religion around here.


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## Nose Dradamous (Jul 19, 2010)

Nivek said:


> Local? Last I checked they were made in China and the headquarters was in Austria... has this changed?
> 
> 
> 
> Headquarters are in Italy and Seattle Kevin. Tooled in Italy, plastic from Europe, injected and assembled in China...last time I checked.


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## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

Nose Dradamous said:


> Nivek said:
> 
> 
> > Local? Last I checked they were made in China and the headquarters was in Austria... has this changed?
> ...


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## jdang307 (Feb 6, 2011)

lernr said:


> I meant the c3 warehouse is local, they have Union and Capita. The techs are cool and I know someone on Union / Capita team and I like how they support local riders.
> 
> The Phantoms look nice too, only the buckles look like they would suck some


I had Blackhawks and the buckles were butter. Better than the Malavitas which were pretty good too.


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## CheeseForSteeze (May 11, 2011)

I'd specifically recommend AGAINST the Force MC if you do decide to go Union. There have been some problems with breakages due to manufacturing deficiencies with the lifetime warrantied parts (baseplate/heel loop) and I heard a rumor that Union might have taken action forcing DuPont to sue a manufacturing facilities it contracts the Zytel manufacturing to. This was purportedly limited to certain production runs so not all Zytel materials (which is in all Union baseplates) or even all Force MC bindings exhibit this flaw. Again, I can't confirm this to be true or not but Union/DuPont seem to be aware of the problem. Maybe Johan can shed some light on the matter. I did not hear of any problems with the SL and rest of the lineups.

The LBS had a pair which was sold and broke and replaced underwarranty. The second pair heel loop broke again.


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## Nose Dradamous (Jul 19, 2010)

Megatron X said:


> Hmm. Maybe I have to rethink the whole binding situation. I guess I can always wait until next year. But I'm guessing the general consensus is that the SL > MC but I should probably look elsewhere?


Mega...MC is a super lightweight version of the SL. Under 3lbs for the pair. The carbon highback isn't a brick stiffness wise. It has a nice lateral flex in it, making it a good all around binder. The carbon, aluminum hardwear and machine coring are all part of the process to make this the lightest binding on the market. The SL, is priced $120 less than the MC with similar riding characteristics, with material differences. If you don't really care how light your bindings are, and have a price sensitive wallet, then get the SL's. The Chargers are a no frills responsive carbon highback binding. The most responsive binding in the line up for sure. T-Rice is riding the Teams, which is a plastic highback version of the Chargers.


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## lernr (Feb 3, 2012)

Here's what I can state for a fact:

When the alum heel cup hardware (not the cup itself) on my old MC was starting to give out due to multiple adjustments for various boots, I went to c-3 to get replacements and I received: new baseplates + heelcups from the older (mine) model, and the new carbon highbacks from the current model (we couldn't take my old highbacks easily). My original baseplates were a bit chipped (paint) but that's normal after 2 seasons. Basically I only have the straps and the carbon gas pedal from the old set. If that's not stellar customer service I don't know what is!

I also got a great hookup on the latest MC model, which has better straps.

Was going to buy the 2013 Flow ATSE or some Fluxes for resort riding but with such outstanding experience from Union I just cannot!

Now, I may have just been lucky - can't promise same for everyone


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## Nose Dradamous (Jul 19, 2010)

That's the goal. You're judged on how you fix a problem. Thanks.


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## jdang307 (Feb 6, 2011)

And also how many times you have to fix the problem :laugh:


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## Megatron X (Apr 27, 2012)

lernr said:


> Here's what I can state for a fact:
> 
> When the alum heel cup hardware (not the cup itself) on my old MC was starting to give out due to multiple adjustments for various boots, I went to c-3 to get replacements and I received: new baseplates + heelcups from the older (mine) model, and the new carbon highbacks from the current model (we couldn't take my old highbacks easily). My original baseplates were a bit chipped (paint) but that's normal after 2 seasons. Basically I only have the straps and the carbon gas pedal from the old set. If that's not stellar customer service I don't know what is!
> 
> ...


I guess that was what I was hearing. I might wait for the chargers or maybe I'll be able to get some SLs for cheap. They are just hard to find.


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## Nose Dradamous (Jul 19, 2010)

jdang307 said:


> And also how many times you have to fix the problem :laugh:



True. Unions built it's reputation as a no frills, durable binding company. And if something goes wrong, we take care of it.


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## lernr (Feb 3, 2012)

Megatron X said:


> I guess that was what I was hearing. I might wait for the chargers or maybe I'll be able to get some SLs for cheap. They are just hard to find.


I am not so sure - I think what you heard, and what Cheese showed, was the heelcup loop breaking. In my case only the aluminum bolts were messed up.

Here's a link for sample SLs


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## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

Be warned, samples from any company can be hit or miss with ride quality and build quality.


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