# Union vs Flux



## googs185 (Dec 31, 2012)

So I've narrowed my choices down to the Union Contact Pro and the Flux TT30. I love riding park, but I also do a lot of freeriding and like to bomb powder runs and also encounter icy conditions over here on the east coast. Which would be the best option for me? Is the lower highback on the Flux an issue? Is it true that the union binding ratchets slip? Thanks!


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## Triple8Sol (Nov 24, 2008)

Flux TT30 (which I just sold) is one of my favorite bindings I've owned for true all mountain use. More than Cartels, and way more than Forces. I moved away from Flux this year b/c of their lack of canted footbeds, but Union doesn't do that either, so that's not really an issue for you.


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## googs185 (Dec 31, 2012)

Triple8Sol said:


> Flux TT30 (which I just sold) is one of my favorite bindings I've owned for true all mountain use. More than Cartels, and way more than Forces. I moved away from Flux this year b/c of their lack of canted footbeds, but Union doesn't do that either, so that's not really an issue for you.


So you think the TT30s beat out the Contact Pros? Why did you sell them?


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## Extremo (Nov 6, 2008)

I would stay away from the Contact Pro's if you plan on doing any aggressive freeriding. Their baseplate design isn't meant to be responsive. I'd stay away from Flux period. The baseplate feels clunky and the ankle strap design is sub par. If you go Union try the Atlas or the Force. If you're looking at other brands look at the Cartel, Raiden Phantom, Rome 390 Boss, Ride Rodeo. Can't go wrong with any of those.


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## phony_stark (Jul 2, 2011)

If you like riding park, but also like freeriding the contact pro is perfect. Super lightweight, forgiving enough for park, soft enough for a surfy feel in p0w but stiff enough to handle free riding.

The Union binding ratchets don't slip at all, in fact, some people have an issue with them being harder to take off than other bindings. Which, isn't a big deal at all, and is pretty comforting if you ask me.

Atlas is my favorite binding ever though, give that a look as well.


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## googs185 (Dec 31, 2012)

phony_stark said:


> If you like riding park, but also like freeriding the contact pro is perfect. Super lightweight, forgiving enough for park, soft enough for a surfy feel in p0w but stiff enough to handle free riding.
> 
> The Union binding ratchets don't slip at all, in fact, some people have an issue with them being harder to take off than other bindings. Which, isn't a big deal at all, and is pretty comforting if you ask me.
> 
> Atlas is my favorite binding ever though, give that a look as well.


The Atlas is pretty stiff though, right? And when it comes down to it..how big of a difference does the stiffness make? Its more rider, right?


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## phony_stark (Jul 2, 2011)

Nah, the atlas isn't stiff at all, to me. It's in between the contact pro and forces as far as response, which makes it really versatile. I think when I first got them, I described them as softer, but responsive when you need them to be.

And you're right, googs, it's 90% rider 10% gear.


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## Extremo (Nov 6, 2008)

phony_stark said:


> If you like riding park, but also like freeriding the contact pro is perfect. Super lightweight, forgiving enough for park, soft enough for a surfy feel in p0w but stiff enough to handle free riding.
> 
> The Union binding ratchets don't slip at all, in fact, some people have an issue with them being harder to take off than other bindings. Which, isn't a big deal at all, and is pretty comforting if you ask me.
> 
> Atlas is my favorite binding ever though, give that a look as well.


The contact pro is a jib oriented park binding. It's not for freeriding. 



googs185 said:


> The Atlas is pretty stiff though, right? And when it comes down to it..how big of a difference does the stiffness make? Its more rider, right?


The Atlas baseplate is as stiff as the Force but it has a softer highback and softer ankle straps. If you're spending more time in the park I'd recommend the Atlas, if you're spending more time riding the entire mountain then get the Force.


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## 61ragtop (Aug 7, 2012)

I wanted a binding this year that was good for all round riding (park, pow, groomers....) I went with the Flux DS30 and love them!! response for carving is great and still good flex for freestylin. Just my 2 cents.

My choice was between the DS30 and Contact Pro and everytime i tried the toe ratchets in the store the contact pro's were sticky, DS30's like butter that was my decision maker.

For a lighter mor responsive Flux alternative is the DMCC light. I am not a huge charger so opted not to pay the extra for them.


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## linvillegorge (Jul 6, 2009)

I have a serious man crush on Flux bindings. The TT30s are my favorite all-around bindings.


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## phony_stark (Jul 2, 2011)

Extremo said:


> The contact pro is a jib oriented park binding. It's not for freeriding.
> 
> 
> 
> The Atlas baseplate is as stiff as the Force but it has a softer highback and softer ankle straps. If you're spending more time in the park I'd recommend the Atlas, if you're spending more time riding the entire mountain then get the Force.


I'm going to disagree with the contact pro assessment. 

They're carbon injected and have a responsive, but flat highback. They're on the softer side, but they are by no means only for park and Jib. They're currently Gigi Ruf's pro model and I wouldn't call him a park rat. They have more lateral flex than the Atlas/Force, but, for me, there was no drastic loss in response straight back. 

As far as Unions go, Pros and the Atlas are can't go wrong purchases for all types of riding.


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## Extremo (Nov 6, 2008)

phony_stark said:


> I'm going to disagree with the contact pro assessment.
> 
> They're carbon injected and have a responsive, but flat highback. They're on the softer side, but they are by no means only for park and Jib. They're currently Gigi Ruf's pro model and I wouldn't call him a park rat. They have more lateral flex than the Atlas/Force, but, for me, there was no drastic loss in response straight back.
> 
> As far as Unions go, Pros and the Atlas are can't go wrong purchases for all types of riding.


Gigi rides the superpro's. The contact pro's have a lot of torsional and lateral flex. So much that I don't even like them for park. Too loose feeling.


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## phony_stark (Jul 2, 2011)

That's true, he'll be on something different for 2014.

I think this is a preference thing. I'm guessing you like stiffer bindings.


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## Gdog42 (Nov 11, 2012)

Here's a different idea:
Consider the regular Contacts instead of the Contact Pros. The Contact's highback has good flex for the park, but the base is much more responsive because it has a lot less EVA dampening zones (just under heel) than on the Contact Pro (all over the entire base).

The Force is also a great binding for all-mountain and park. However, some people have said it's a little heavier and I know for sure that the toe strap ratchets are difficult to release, as I have them.

I also have a pair of the DLX bindings, which I'm using now but I improved them by putting the Force straps on them but kept on the DLX ratchets, which hold just as good but release a lot more easily than the Force ratchets.

The DLX highback has very similar flex the the Contact highback, and I use these bindings both for all mountain and park, just like you plan on doing. The softer highback has *not been a problem* for me whenever I've done powder and ice on steep terrain. They're actually really responsive when I go heelside.

So, with all this in mind, you might be best with the Contact bindings. I know, they look like they're just meant for park because Scott Stevens rides them, but they'd definitely work just as good for all-mountain.


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## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

Extremo said:


> Gigi rides the superpro's. The contact pro's have a lot of torsional and lateral flex. So much that I don't even like them for park. Too loose feeling.


He may not ride them now, but he's the reason they exist. He liked the Contact and wanted something beefier: Contact Pro. As evidence: you'll notice the distance between the bottom of the highback and heelcup is greater when folded down on the Pro than any other Union. Ruf found that while bootpacking and holding onto the heelcups the regular highbacks from Union would dig into his hands. So when he got involved with the Contact Pro he had them mill out the bottom section for more hand space.

While it is soft, its not jibby. There's a difference. They're a surfy all mountain binding, a good one. It doesnt sound like he'll be doing "aggressive" freeriding so I dont think he'll out power the Pro's.

OP:
Depends what you want and whether you're willing to deal with a toe strap that may or may not fit. The Flux's will fit, the Unions might not. You'll get more dampening from the Union, more response from the TT30, more comfort from the TT30 in my experience, and if it matters to you the Flux's are 100% tool less adjustmets aside from mounting them.

Gdog, have you ridden either the Contacts or Pros? Cause it sounds like you havent. The Contact is one of the softest bindings I've ever been in. They felt too soft on a Sub Zero. The Pros macth up well on rockered mid flex all mountain decks. Far from softer than Contacts. Not to mention they're the same base frame except the Pro's are carbon injected and the Contacts are glass reinforced.


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## phony_stark (Jul 2, 2011)

Nivek said:


> He may not ride them now, but he's the reason they exist. He liked the Contact and wanted something beefier: Contact Pro. As evidence: you'll notice the distance between the bottom of the highback and heelcup is greater when folded down on the Pro than any other Union. Ruf found that while bootpacking and holding onto the heelcups the regular highbacks from Union would dig into his hands. So when he got involved with the Contact Pro he had them mill out the bottom section for more hand space.
> 
> While it is soft, its not jibby. There's a difference. They're a surfy all mountain binding, a good one. It doesnt sound like he'll be doing "aggressive" freeriding so I dont think he'll out power the Pro's.
> 
> ...


This and This.

To add:

The DLX highback has a similar shape as the contacts but in no way are the flexes similar. The contact highback is pretty soft, to the point where, even with the forward lean cranked, it felt like there was nothing back there, or that it had folded. 

DLX is an awesome binding for the price, and are fine for all mountain and park. Regular Contacts...for me, not so much.


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## Triple8Sol (Nov 24, 2008)

googs185 said:


> So you think the TT30s beat out the Contact Pros? Why did you sell them?





Triple8Sol said:


> I moved away from Flux this year b/c of their lack of canted footbeds, but Union doesn't do that either, so that's not really an issue for you.


I really hope Flux adds canted footbeds to their line-up for next season, as that would make me have to seriously consider going back. They had some of the best straps for me when I was running the TT30, SF45, Super Titan, and DMCC over the previous 3yrs.


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## googs185 (Dec 31, 2012)

Triple8Sol said:


> I really hope Flux adds canted footbeds to their line-up for next season, as that would make me have to seriously consider going back. They had some of the best straps for me when I was running the TT30, SF45, Super Titan, and DMCC over the previous 3yrs.


Oh ok. But other than the straps, what makes them better than the contact pros? Are they good for park and all mountain?


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## Extremo (Nov 6, 2008)

Nivek said:


> He may not ride them now, but he's the reason they exist. He liked the Contact and wanted something beefier: Contact Pro. As evidence: you'll notice the distance between the bottom of the highback and heelcup is greater when folded down on the Pro than any other Union. Ruf found that while bootpacking and holding onto the heelcups the regular highbacks from Union would dig into his hands. So when he got involved with the Contact Pro he had them mill out the bottom section for more hand space.
> 
> While it is soft, its not jibby. There's a difference. They're a surfy all mountain binding, a good one. It doesnt sound like he'll be doing "aggressive" freeriding so I dont think he'll out power the Pro's.


Yeah obviously he there his 'Pro model'. And I've heard the story before. You can see him riding them in pics all over the web. But even before the superpros came out he was in volcom ads riding the MC's and team forces. I'm guessing because they had their limitations. In pow, I'm sure they're surfy. But on the stuff we ride out here it's easy to out power them. There are more suitable bindings in the line.


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## tonyisnowhere (Sep 24, 2012)

I got a sweet deal on last years Union SL. Those ride really nice! Any reason you are not considering those?


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## jml22 (Apr 10, 2012)

I have flux tt30s, i like them a lot


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## tonyisnowhere (Sep 24, 2012)

jml22 said:


> I have flux tt30s, i like them a lot


Are the TT30s super stiff?


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## linvillegorge (Jul 6, 2009)

tonyisnowhere said:


> Are the TT30s super stiff?


Definitely not stiff. I'd call them a soft all-mountain binding. Closer to the soft end of the spectrum than the stiff IMO.


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## jml22 (Apr 10, 2012)

I'd say they're all mountain bindings, i really like them.
There's a little flex in the high back which i've started really liking. Just let your legs go with the bombs and don't fight it.


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## Gdog42 (Nov 11, 2012)

Nivek said:


> Gdog, have you ridden either the Contacts or Pros? Cause it sounds like you havent. The Contact is one of the softest bindings I've ever been in. They felt too soft on a Sub Zero. The Pros macth up well on rockered mid flex all mountain decks. Far from softer than Contacts. Not to mention they're the same base frame except the Pro's are carbon injected and the Contacts are glass reinforced.


No, I haven't ridden either of them. I've used the DLX, Flite, and Force bindings. 
Last year the Contact's highback was the same as the DLX's, which is why I said the flex would be similar. This year though, the Contacts binding has a new highback. I'm not sure how soft that in compared to the DLX, but I'd expect it to be similar to how it was last year.

So were you talking about the new Contact highback or the old one?


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## Gdog42 (Nov 11, 2012)

phony_stark said:


> This and This.
> 
> To add:
> 
> ...


I think you're right. The DLX from last year was exactly the same as last year's Contact highback (now this year's DLX highback), except the Contact highback had 2 more spaces milled out in the center. This would have made it softer, but I didn't think there would have been that much of a difference.

Since this can be a little confusing for anyone else reading who hasn't yet seen the difference...it's picture time! :coolpics:

2011/2012 DLX:









2011/2012 Contact:









2012/2013 DLX:









2012/2013 Contact:









_"Do you see what I see?...
...Do you know what I know?"_

Well, now everyone definitely does.


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## googs185 (Dec 31, 2012)

Also, I want to add that I have found the Flux TT30s for $159 shipped on sale, whereas the Union Contact Pros are consistently $220. Also, I am coming from a pair of Ride Beta Movements from a few years ago and I find that when going fast or down steep slopes they are hard to turn with and I often have to slow down to avoid washing out. They will be going on my Neversummer Evo 153.


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## Alkasquawlik (Jul 13, 2010)

Extremo said:


> Yeah obviously he there his 'Pro model'. And I've heard the story before. You can see him riding them in pics all over the web. But even before the superpros came out he was in volcom ads riding the MC's and team forces. I'm guessing because they had their limitations. In pow, I'm sure they're surfy. But on the stuff we ride out here it's easy to out power them. There are more suitable bindings in the line.


Ya, I'm sure on all those crazy NH hills you totally outperform the Contact Pro.


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## Extremo (Nov 6, 2008)

Alkasquawlik said:


> Ya, I'm sure on all those crazy NH hills you totally outperform the Contact Pro.


Well considering its 100% boiler plate and blacks are about 20 ft wide the last thing you want a binding to be at 50mph is surfy.


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