# Final question. Never summer time. Final decision



## Decade190 (Feb 26, 2012)

Hey guys,
Will only be quick...

I've narrowed it down and locked onto the Never summer SL...

Only thing I need help with now is the size, 155 or 158?
Stats:
5'9
187lbs
Male
Early intermediate
Mostly freeride (hence all mountain board)
Shoe size US 10-10.5

Its my shortness despite my high weight that confuses me on board length. ??

I've decided on Burton cartels, despite some stories of toecap slippage. 
Also decided to update my boots as I have gotten a good deal for the NS and cartels. 
Absolutely loved these FOCUS BOA® 580 SNOWBOARD BOOT ? NEW BALANCE® X 686 ? MENS WINTER BOOTS / SHOES ? PRODUCTS :: SIX EIGHT SIX JAPAN SITE at the local store, but stiffness rating of 9? Probly not for my setup/ability?

This will be my first self-owned board/bindings. Thanks for helping as these decisions have been very draining! 
Now I just need to decide whether to go black or white with the NS (then binding colour....)

Cheers


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## Basti (Sep 22, 2011)

i'd go with the 158. and yes, the boots seem very stiff for what you want to do.


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## linvillegorge (Jul 6, 2009)

Primarily freeride? I'd go 158.


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## d15 (Jan 12, 2012)

Yes I'd say go for the 158.


I'm 5'9" 155lbs, size 8 boots and would be riding the 155.


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## P3 Mammoth (Dec 3, 2011)

158 no brainer


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## lernr (Feb 3, 2012)

I'd go with the larger size for freeride. 

These boots are good for true freeride, but your board is a little more AM freestyle oriented, I think. And the "early intermediate" may mean that you are going to have more fun progress easier with a softer boot

Cheers
Ivo


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## pdxrealtor (Jan 23, 2012)

I'm 5'8" 195-200 lbs and just got a 165. Although it is a bit to big I rode it all day without issue. I ended up dropping down to a 162. I Also have a 158 and it's too small.


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## snowboy (Mar 2, 2012)

Hey im looking at the never summer evo and i also needed help on my size. im 5'9 , 130 , boot 9.5 . i was wondering if i should go 147 or the 150.


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## Decade190 (Feb 26, 2012)

Sound. cheers for replies.
So you reckon 158 cos of mostly freeriding? I shoukd mention it will mostly be groomed, little bit of park. Would the 155 be better for park?
Thinking I'll get the black 158 now.


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## threej21 (Jan 2, 2011)

if you think freestyle and park is where your interests are headed id go 155. Im 6' 200lbs 100% freestyle rider with lots of park riding and I ride the NS Revolver 155...and also had no problem riding that board on big mountain bombing when i was at Keystone


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## Decade190 (Feb 26, 2012)

Ah, now that's confused me a bit more. 
I think I'll be 90% groomer free ride with like 10% park and pow. 
Wanna get it right and I can't demo anywhere near here. 
200lbs and 6' seems quite high for a 155?
Maybe I should go 155 then. Now getting white too


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## snowklinger (Aug 30, 2011)

Just remeber 3cm is barely an inch. Don't be scairt 

Go with whatever you are used to riding. I'd go shorter too but I'm not tall and pick boards on the shorter side. I weigh 180 but my blunted 154 proto rides like a 57-59 with the drawn out rails.

200lbs is a bit big for a 55 only because that's the size I ride and I think I push the limit a little bit on weight/length. The 55 would be more of a park only board at 200lbs I'd say.

Its still only an inch.


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## neutralmlkhotel (Sep 5, 2011)

Just throwing it out there

I have a NS Heritage-X 158W
I'm 6'1 205lbs
Burton Driver-x size 12 

I stepped down from a 162w Burton Custom


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## RaID (Aug 27, 2009)

My pick would be the white 158 SL with green cartels.

Im 185lbs and love ripping up my 161 SL.


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## threej21 (Jan 2, 2011)

snowklinger said:


> Just remeber 3cm is barely an inch. Don't be scairt
> 
> Go with whatever you are used to riding. I'd go shorter too but I'm not tall and pick boards on the shorter side. I weigh 180 but my blunted 154 proto rides like a 57-59 with the drawn out rails.
> 
> ...


yes, i know im slightly pushing the limits with my size, but ive always preferred shorter boards, in wakeboarding too...and yes i ride mostly park but can bomb/carve/shred with the best of them on my shorter boards with zero issues, and FWIW, my 155 is a 2012 Revolver, so it also has the blunted tips making it ride longer...my 2011 Revolver is a 156 as well as my 2011 Ride Kink...i rode my buddies 160 Nitro last season, and couldnt wait to get to the bottom to unstrap the helicopter blade/tank that was strapped to my feet

but again, for OP, personally, had no issues bombing ALL OVER Keystone with my 155 Revolver


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## SnowMotion (Oct 8, 2010)

You have to keep in mind what you might want to do in the lifetime of the board. If you are interested in a little freestyle now you will probably be into it more down the line. Freestyle is not just in the park if you want to play around with butters or little pop 180s on the trail. I would agree with Snowolf the 155 with the NS shape will be all the board you will need. I am 6'1 230 and ride a Never Summer Evo 157. Last few years I have ridden down to 152/154 sized boards for freestyle only went up this year to help come back from an injury.


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## neutralmlkhotel (Sep 5, 2011)

SnowMotion said:


> You have to keep in mind what you might want to do in the lifetime of the board. If you are interested in a little freestyle now you will probably be into it more down the line. Freestyle is not just in the park if you want to play around with butters or little pop 180s on the trail. I would agree with Snowolf the 155 with the NS shape will be all the board you will need. I am 6'1 230 and ride a Never Summer Evo 157. Last few years I have ridden down to 152/154 sized boards for freestyle only went up this year to help come back from an injury.


The step down from a 162W (standard camber) to a 158W (rocker/camber) made a huge difference. They both handle the same except the added float and response of the RC tech. I also think the amount of effective edge is the same, even with the cut down in 4cm


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## Decade190 (Feb 26, 2012)

So you're saying you reckon it's be alright for me to step to a 155 given that you feel it rides like a longer board? I guess at the end of the day the 3cm Won't make all that much difference. There seems to be a 50/50 split opinion on which board would be right. I'm thinking maaaybe the 155, will still be mostly doing free ride but sounds like it'll handle like a slightly longer board and spin round easily.


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## SnowMotion (Oct 8, 2010)

The two main reason someone would ride a longer board. One is to get more float in pow. The other is more effective edge to hold speed over ice. The shape of the NS board with its r/c shape allows for an easy ability to keep your nose up in deep snow and the effective edge is extended to equal that of a larger board giving you control at high speeds and ice. But being shorter in size (and 3cm is big just cause you can't feel a difference doesn't mean there isn't one) will allow a lighter more effortless ride and playful feel.


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## Decade190 (Feb 26, 2012)

Ok, so maybe a 155 is alright then.
Little worried as found this:
SnowboardingForum.Com
Pretty much completely slates the SL, especially for an early intermediate like me who would be skid turning frequently and flat-basing at times.

Also,
Never Summer SL Dual Camber Snowboard, 155cm, 2012 
Is this the same board? It says ''double camber'so was confused.
http://www.absolute-snow.co.uk/P/Never_Summer_SL_Dual_Camber_Snowboard_155cm_2012-(25732).aspx

Thanks everyone


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## sabatoa (Jan 18, 2011)

fhendo190 said:


> Ok, so maybe a 155 is alright then.
> Little worried as found this:
> SnowboardingForum.Com
> Pretty much completely slates the SL, especially for an early intermediate like me who would be skid turning frequently and flat-basing at times.
> ...


That top link is busted.


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## lonerider (Apr 10, 2009)

fhendo190 said:


> Ok, so maybe a 155 is alright then.
> Little worried as found this:
> SnowboardingForum.Com
> Pretty much completely slates the SL, especially for an early intermediate like me who would be skid turning frequently and flat-basing at times.
> ...


I normally would recommend the 158 for someone your weight. However, I think I agree that a 155 will be better for "early intermediate" who does a lot of "skid turning" as you put it. The shorter length will make it easier for someone who is still learning to swing the board around. Again as other people mention the extra 3cm gives you more edgehold and stability... but that is only important if you are doing high speed carving down the slope and is not as important if you as just doing skid turns.

Yes, the SL is technically a dual camber snowboard as it has a rockered *or reverse camber" section between the bindings and two mini-camber section just outside of each binding. All of the Never Summer boards have this... here is a photo take be Leo that shows it


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## Decade190 (Feb 26, 2012)

lonerider said:


> I normally would recommend the 158 for someone your weight. However, I think I agree that a 155 will be better for "early intermediate" who does a lot of "skid turning" as you put it. The shorter length will make it easier for someone who is still learning to swing the board around. Again as other people mention the extra 3cm gives you more edgehold and stability... but that is only important if you are doing high speed carving down the slope and is not as important if you as just doing skid turns.
> 
> [/IMG]


http://www.snowboardingforum.com/boards/44561-2012-never-summer-sl-not-fun-2.html
Theres the link, alot of people not liking the SL there for ''poor flatbasing and needing to be on its edge all the time'

Cheers, am going for it tonight and just buying one. Technically then i could outgrow the 155 if i get upto some propper carving this season? Cheers


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## sabatoa (Jan 18, 2011)

fhendo190 said:


> http://www.snowboardingforum.com/boards/44561-2012-never-summer-sl-not-fun-2.html
> Theres the link, alot of people not liking the SL there for ''poor flatbasing and needing to be on its edge all the time'
> 
> Cheers, am going for it tonight and just buying one. Technically then i could outgrow the 155 if i get upto some propper carving this season? Cheers


I have a Legacy, the wide version of the SL and I can confirm that flatbasing on flat portions of the hill makes the SL feel squirrelly.

Flatbasing leading to kickers, boxes or whatever are no issue but on the flats...yeah, that's where I notice it.


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## Decade190 (Feb 26, 2012)

On groomed slope its no problem but on flat it is?

Maybe i should rethink board choice


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## lonerider (Apr 10, 2009)

fhendo190 said:


> http://www.snowboardingforum.com/boards/44561-2012-never-summer-sl-not-fun-2.html
> Theres the link, alot of people not liking the SL there for ''poor flatbasing and needing to be on its edge all the time'
> 
> Cheers, am going for it tonight and just buying one. Technically then i could outgrow the 155 if i get upto some propper carving this season? Cheers


The SL is less than ideal if you are trying to flat base down a steeper icy slope without edging - if you like that style of bombing down a run then you might want to consider something else.

However... I've had no problem flat-basing a SL to hit a 40 ft kicker, or to keep my speed up across a flat traverse.

For you second question - yes, technically you could outgrow the 155 if you really get into carving. However, unless you are taking lessons and doing some serious practicing and/or riding a lot of days, it is unlikely you will feel limited by the 155 in say two season (or 30 days of riding). Even on top of that, there is a bit of person preference. Snowolf is like 200 lbs and rides a 156.

Here is a video of my on a 2009 SL 155 and I was 5'9" 150 lbs at the time:


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## Decade190 (Feb 26, 2012)

That looks like some pretty tight carving... looks like the board is great for that.
I'm starting to wonder if i need wait till i got carving fully down before getting something like the SL.
I wonder if the arbor coda or lib tech TRS might be better for flatbasing/skidded turns.
I don't even flatbase often, but like to feel stable when i do...


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## lonerider (Apr 10, 2009)

fhendo190 said:


> That looks like some pretty tight carving... looks like the board is great for that.
> I'm starting to wonder if i need wait till i got carving fully down before getting something like the SL.
> I wonder if the arbor coda or lib tech TRS might be better for flatbasing/skidded turns.
> I don't even flatbase often, but like to feel stable when i do...


Pretty much all reverse cambered boards are less stable when flatbasing. 

Talk to jdang... he just bought a Arbor Coda coming from a NS SL and Evo I think.


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## sabatoa (Jan 18, 2011)

fhendo190 said:


> On groomed slope its no problem but on flat it is?
> 
> Maybe i should rethink board choice


I wouldn't call it a problem. I love that board so much and I've yet to catch an edge on it despite this being my second season. I caught edges all the time on my old board.

Anyways, I'd say "it's noticable at times" not that it's a problem.

I think you'd have this issue with any rockered board.


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## Decade190 (Feb 26, 2012)

Will have a word wit jdang then, sounds like he'll know what to do ha

Cool, i won't be put off then. Might jus go for the SL and just get on with it...
Will flip a coin for the 155/158


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## jdang307 (Feb 6, 2011)

lonerider said:


> Pretty much all reverse cambered boards are less stable when flatbasing.
> 
> Talk to jdang... he just bought a Arbor Coda coming from a NS SL and Evo I think.


Yup. The all the cambered boards are a little less stable when flatbasing. I started off with a technine cambered board, fairly stiff but not stiff, and even it was a tiny bit squirrely but then again, I was a newbie.

The NS SL was my next board, and it wasn't that much more squirrely than the cambered board.

The Evo was about the same. Nothing you couldn't handle, just need to be on your toes so to speak. If you stay in an athletic stance and are prepared to counter any sudden movements you were fine. I never got thrown off with either the SL or the two Evo's I had.

The Arbor, well the arbor is completely different. That thing had a mine of its own. If I ride flat but down a decent angled hill, no problem. But going on a flat catwalk and all hell broke loose. I've only had one day on it two weeks ago, so I need to adjust, so that conclusion is incomplete. But you can read my thread I started on it.

Couple things. The Never Summer boards come with 0/0 edges. The first Evo I had, I rode out of the box, and if you hit a hard patch, yeah it can pull you a little. The second Evo I had, I detuned tip and tail, slightly detuned the contact edges, and put a 1/1 bevel on it. Helped a lot. Definite difference in the smoothness of it all. It still got pulled a little when flat basing, but it was a lot more subtle.

Also, with the reverse cambered boards, as Snowolf pointed out (and I discovered on my own just because), you can lean forward or backward just very slightly to engage the camber. this helps. I was leaning forward, and it was more stable. Snowolf says to lean back slightly, as this reduces drag and you'll go faster. I'll have to try that. And this is just a tiny lean. Nothing dramatic.


Get the SL. Great board for a beginner. The dampening is love/hate, but for a beginner it's pure love. I got a lot more confidence riding it because of how smooth it made things.


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## Decade190 (Feb 26, 2012)

jdang307 said:


> Get the SL. Great board for a beginner. The dampening is love/hate, but for a beginner it's pure love. I got a lot more confidence riding it because of how smooth it made things.


Thanks! Thats all really useful.
Definately putting in the order for an SL tonight then.
Any thoughts on the 155 or 158 dilemnA?


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## jdang307 (Feb 6, 2011)

Eesh. That's a tough one. I'd lean ... 158. I'm 145 that was on a 151.

The 158 will keep up longer with your skills (how fast you go). Or maybe you never go faster than a 155 will allow you. Who knows.

But just remember, whichever you choose, it's only going to be slight differences. The SL isn't all that stiff so Personally I'd go 158.


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## Decade190 (Feb 26, 2012)

Just checked with my local store where theres a sale on andthey only have the 155 left... Slightly worried that with 186-188lbs i'll squash the thing flat due to its mid-flex.

Might search the net for a 158 at a simiar price


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## pdxrealtor (Jan 23, 2012)

Go 158.....


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## Decade190 (Feb 26, 2012)

Think i wanna go 158 but i can get a 155 about $70 cheaper... ;S


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## Decade190 (Feb 26, 2012)

FINAL dilemna and then i promise to leave you all alone (for a while).

I can get the 155 for about $75 cheaper than the NS SL in a 158 (they didnt have a 158 in stock so more pricey to order). However the guy in the store tried to push me to get a 161 at the least and was highly discouraging the 155. I could either march back in and just go for the 155, which i am worried may be too small for my weight... Or I could just go ahead and spend the extra money and get the 158. I definately don;t want to go with the 161, feels too lon for me.
WHAT SHOULD I DO
Thanks


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## ETM (Aug 11, 2009)

snowklinger said:


> Just remeber 3cm is barely an inch.


LOL.......


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## Decade190 (Feb 26, 2012)

Ha cheers for that. 
Any suggestions?


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## RaID (Aug 27, 2009)

fhendo190 said:


> Ha cheers for that.
> Any suggestions?


I would go the 158, after doing back to back board tests today I was surprised how much 3cm made a difference when I was comparing 158 to 161 boards.


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## threej21 (Jan 2, 2011)

fhendo190 said:


> FINAL dilemna and then i promise to leave you all alone (for a while).
> 
> I can get the 155 for about $75 cheaper than the NS SL in a 158 (they didnt have a 158 in stock so more pricey to order). However the guy in the store tried to push me to get a 161 at the least and was highly discouraging the 155. I could either march back in and just go for the 155, which i am worried may be too small for my weight... Or I could just go ahead and spend the extra money and get the 158. I definately don;t want to go with the 161, feels too lon for me.
> WHAT SHOULD I DO
> Thanks


155 FTW, its cheaper, its more ideal...just do it!! ha, the guy telling you 161, why do so many shops try to put people on such huge boards....

you said yourself you see yourself doing some freestyle as your skills improve...100% theres your answer, 155 will suit that much better and still be fine bombing (refer to my previous posts in this thread)


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## threej21 (Jan 2, 2011)

with your stats, if you were doing purely freestyle/park, you would want like a 152-153, and if you were doing purely big mtn carving, you would want like a 159-161.
Since you plan on doing some carving/cruising and getting into freestyle, i really feel like the 155 is PERFECT


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## Decade190 (Feb 26, 2012)

threej21 said:


> with your stats, if you were doing purely freestyle/park, you would want like a 152-153, and if you were doing purely big mtn carving, you would want like a 159-161.
> Since you plan on doing some carving/cruising and getting into freestyle, i really feel like the 155 is PERFECT


Cheers,

I'll never be doing any propper park riding cos there isn't really much opportunity for me to do it where I board. Aside from a couple of kickers i mostly freeride and hit any natural jumps i can find on the way down the groomers.

Yeah, I wanted to just get in there and get it bought and stop pestering people by all this deliberating... but the guy in the shop reckoned on a 155 5/10 flex, my weight would be too much and he said i'd end up pushing it down to like a 3/10 flex and taking all the pop out of it. He thought i'd be too heavy for anything that'd put pressure on it for example he said he'd worry in a tail block it'd snap.

Not sure if he was being helpful or just trying to shift the 161.


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## threej21 (Jan 2, 2011)

you dont have to do park to do freestyle riding. hitting side hits, ollies, 180s, tail presses, 360s...kickers, natural rollers, side hits....thats all freestyle and if you enjoy that kind of stuff, its a lot more fun/easy with a shorter board...

i weigh 210lbs and ride a 2012 NS Revolver 155 right now, previous boards: 2011 NS Revolver 156, Ride Kink 156... i hit lots of jumps, rails, trees...ive landed tail heavy, nose heavy, ate shit every way possible...and ive never snapped a board or cracked a top sheet or anything... ive also taken it to CO and shredded every black run at keystone with no issues whatsoever..straight bombing, hard carving, etc,etc

do what you want obviously, just take everyones opinions from this thread and see what makes most sense to you and how you want your riding to be....DEFINITLY DONT GET THE 161...


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## Massimo (Jan 20, 2012)

You can looking at the HERITAGE too.....:thumbsup:
I`m the same type of rider than you and thanks to the advice of snowolf, with 175lbs go with heritage X in 156.


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## lonerider (Apr 10, 2009)

fhendo190 said:


> Cheers,
> 
> I'll never be doing any propper park riding cos there isn't really much opportunity for me to do it where I board. Aside from a couple of kickers i mostly freeride and hit any natural jumps i can find on the way down the groomers.
> 
> ...


Never Summer SL 155 will NOT SNAP if you tail block at your weight - that shop guy is full of crap if he's saying that.

I still believe that the 158 is the better option. The 155 will definitely be like a 3/10 flex for your weight (~190 lbs I recall, whereas I'm riding it at 150 lbs) and mostly for park oriented riders - in my opinion... it would just skid too much when you are riding at higher speeds done steeper slopes.


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## Decade190 (Feb 26, 2012)

Getting very confusing with all the different opinions on this. Think this might be a sign that either one would be fine then really. I do feel like the 158 is probly right but for $70 more... not so sure.


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## lonerider (Apr 10, 2009)

fhendo190 said:


> Getting very confusing with all the different opinions on this. Think this might be a sign that either one would be fine then really. I do feel like the 158 is probly right but for $70 more... not so sure.


Yes three cm length is a small difference. You are getting different opinions because people like to do different things. Threej21 clearly loves freestyle both inside and outside the park like my friend is jibbing and spinning off of every little bump and stump on the trails. I love riding park but like big carved turns on the trails . I think you should pick which person sounds thr most like your style and buy the board that they are recommending.

Good luck


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## srdeo (Jan 29, 2012)

for 70 less i would get 155. especially you sound more like you want to do freestyle riding down the line. 
You may outgrow it for freeriding purposes but you can get something else (more freeride oriented board) then (in couple years). You can keep the 155 as park board. I weight 250lbs and i still sometimes ride 159 when i am riding with beginners or freestyles oriented friends. At least for few years 155 should do the trick. Save 70 bucks towards your next board.


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## Decade190 (Feb 26, 2012)

lonerider said:


> Yes three cm length is a small difference. You are getting different opinions because people like to do different things. Threej21 clearly loves freestyle both inside and outside the park like my friend is jibbing and spinning off of every little bump and stump on the trails. I love riding park but like big carved turns on the trails . I think you should pick which person sounds thr most like your style and buy the board that they are recommending.
> 
> Good luck


Hey guys,
Not sure whether its right/wrong yet as not been out on it but i went for the 158 NS SL in the end...
Stuck some green cartel 2012 bindings on there too, just looking at boots now.
Hopefully i won't regret the board length. Ended up going 158 as thinking i'll only end up going up in weight not down really. Not too late for me to take it back... still not sure

Just wondering whether people think i need to detune the tip/tail/contact points? Not sure i want to mess with the bevels etc though


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## Milo303 (Apr 6, 2009)

Leave the edges alone

I don't know why people think they need to touch the edges of a new board before riding it!

Happens all the time


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## fondles (Jan 24, 2012)

Keep the 158!!!

Im 5'9 155 lbs and just rode the 155. It was perfect. I couldn't imagine weighing 30 pounds more and riding the 155......


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