# Do i need to ride an edge at high speed?



## Mr. Polonia (Apr 5, 2009)

the guys you see are probably riding on a "slight" edge.

when ur going fast of course you want to be on an edge. you will have more control that way

Dont attempt to ride flat based when going fast. This takes time to practice and its not recommended for beginners. Flat basing will result in a catch and if you just stick to riding on an edge and then progress into riding on a slight edge, then you should be fine.


----------



## Guest (Mar 15, 2010)

Super helpful.Thanks. I'll have to try it next season.


----------



## Guest (Mar 16, 2010)

Snowolf said:


> Ride the edge. Even the guys who think they are bombing runs flat based are in reality using their edges; just at very low edge angles. Yes you can ride flat based, but not for long. Without some dge engagement, there is nothing to prevent board pivot and thus an edge catch. When riding totally flat based, even wind will created pivot as it hits the rider. Uneven snow, compound fall lines and even asymmetrical drag will create board pivot.
> 
> Stay on the edge when riding at high speed and you will be fine. learn precise edge control and you can use very low edge angles to ride long distances in straight lines.


for the first time ever I'm gonna have to disagree with you man

I ride flat based all the time (unless I'm on an edge and don't even know it). when the board starts to slip out I adjust edge angle accordingly..my buddy does the same thing

not that i recommended this for a newer rider


----------



## Cavman (Mar 1, 2010)

*Trust me...*

Always ride with a slight edge. :thumbsup:

This is me trying to flatboard across some flat area and catching a toeside edge as I started to slow down. I knocked the windout of me and it hurt like hell. Bruised ribs for a few days too. 

Catching an edge 

CM
Australia


----------



## Mr. Polonia (Apr 5, 2009)

Cavman said:


> Always ride with a slight edge. :thumbsup:
> 
> This is me trying to flatboard across some flat area and catching a toeside edge as I started to slow down. I knocked the windout of me and it hurt like hell. Bruised ribs for a few days too.
> 
> ...


all i saw was an advertisement for a helmet cam:dunno:


----------



## Kapn.K (Jan 8, 2009)

Cavman said:


> Always ride with a slight edge. :thumbsup:
> 
> This is me trying to flatboard across some flat area and catching a toeside edge as I started to slow down. I knocked the windout of me and it hurt like hell. Bruised ribs for a few days too.
> 
> ...


That was AWESOME Cavman! Thanks for posting. You notice it hardly ever happens when noone is around. I've done stuff like this before and I can't help but laugh at myself and wish I had a video of it to show my friends. Do you de-tune your tip and tail? I did that at it seems I haven't done it since. I do agree that as you progress, you're on an slight edge even though it feels flat.


----------



## SPAZ (May 2, 2009)

unless you want to die, yeah.


----------



## Guest (Mar 16, 2010)

i ALWAYS ride an edge. if you don't you will die. don't ride it so much that you are speed checking and slowing down. just lean a little, get low, go fast.


----------



## Cavman (Mar 1, 2010)

Kapn.K,

My board came de-tuned, so thats as far as I have bothered with it.

Mr. Polonia,
The Video is up.

CM
Australia


----------



## Cavman (Mar 1, 2010)

hahaha Snowolf,

I will second that. We learn from our mistakes


----------



## Mr. Polonia (Apr 5, 2009)

Cavman said:


> Mr. Polonia,
> The Video is up.


hahah just saw it...looked like a nasty one. you were going pretty decent too


----------



## Cavman (Mar 1, 2010)

Mr. Polonia, I am glad my pain and suffering bought a smile to your day hahaha

That was on an old K2 Nemesis 167W, my new 2011 K2 166W Slayblade is due this month. A lot faster board and I plan on hitting some serious speeds on this new board. Not to mention, holding a gentle edge as well


----------



## Mr. Polonia (Apr 5, 2009)

damn a 167W??? your a big boy.

the bigger they are the harder they fall:laugh:


----------



## Cavman (Mar 1, 2010)

Mr. Polonia said:


> damn a 167W??? your a big boy.


Thats what all the girls say. :laugh::laugh:

6ft5in, 250lbs

When I am out of control god help anyone downhill of me


----------



## rasmasyean (Jan 26, 2008)

ThirdEye said:


> for the first time ever I'm gonna have to disagree with you man
> 
> I ride flat based all the time (unless I'm on an edge and don't even know it). when the board starts to slip out I adjust edge angle accordingly..my buddy does the same thing
> 
> not that i recommended this for a newer rider


This takes a lot of practice and balance, however. When you are "used to it" your body will auto-correct for slight pivoting that might go on from uneven terrain, wind, etc. 

What you CAN do to enable your board to pivot less is detune tips and tails as mentioned, and give your base edge a bevel like 2-3 degrees. Some Batalion boards come with an actual base bevel of like an inch inward I think in light of this performance characteristic. This will let your board "wobble" less and give it a slight steamline shape. Think of looking at a "boat" from the front. This way, you will have more time to "correct" any pivot by re-engaging and edge to straigten the board out. It takes a lot of practice and balance...some with muscle memory where the twitch is pratically uncouncious.

I know this is a much argued topic but I think it might be because not everyone can advance at the same rate AND to the same degree in this aspect. I know that I can do it much much better riding reagular than switch, even though I'm pretty sure I have rode switch a lot more total. Riding with slow friends... So it's likely one of those things of whether or not you have fast twitch muscle memory or not, and in a "natural" position. I've also skateboarded when I was little so the sideways balance/twitch might have been imprinted from an early age. This type of riding is very similar to using a skateboard...at least the originals, not the "snow training boards" that they make these days.


----------



## BliND KiNK (Feb 22, 2010)

The first time I actually 'rode' an edge I literally rode down a green slope on my tippy toes never switching edges... I literally left a sharpie size line until the awesome falling down part... if I could figure out how to get back to heel side from that angle would it be alright to do so? It was literally the run that hooked me.. I was blazing down the hill and didn't feel like I was in control, but I was right on edge essentially (carving downhill in a straight line lol) just wondering, like I said I can't link carved turns or do carved turns yet.. just skidded... but yeah, let me know.


----------



## rasmasyean (Jan 26, 2008)

Snowolf said:


> This has nothing to do with causing or preventing board pivot. Pivot is generated by rotational forces either from the rider or from changes in pitch of the terrain or asymmetrical drag from the snow surface. Your edges, whether detuned or not, beveled or not have nothing to do with this. The only thing a bevel or a detune will do will make the board more forgiving of unwanted pivot. The board will "wobble" the same regardless, but will be less likely to catch. The downside to beveled edges and a detuned effective edge is the board will not hold an edge as well when you want it to. Additionally, detuned tip and tail is not a factor either way as when the board is being ridden flat based and on edge, the tip and tail are not making contact with the snow.
> 
> 
> 
> While essentially true overall, this is an erroneous supposition with regard to this specific topic. While an experienced rider can compensate for the lower control that riding flat creates, that rider will understand that it is very inefficient and therefore has no appreciable benefit. That experienced rider has gained the ability to very precisely control edge angle and can ride with just the exact right amount of edge to efficiently ride with far more control than riding flat based. It is basically less experienced riders who try to ride long distances flat based because they lack that fine edge control.


However you want to describe it, tuning works. As a matter of fact it’s one of the reasons why it’s often used as “park tunes” is because it involves a lot of flat-basing. It just so happens I recently tried my friend’s “untuned” board and the first thing I noticed was that flat basing makes it kick side to side and “wobble”. It doesn’t happen to my tuned board(s). It just pretty much glides forward like a torpedo with little or no wobbling. I have to correct it less.

And you don’t have to ride flat based if you don’t want. But many people launch off booters doing straight airs while flat-basing for stability. Some of these are really large ramps where you have to go pretty fast to clear the knuckle. Many approach boxes and rails flat as well where consequences are much more severe for mistakes. I mean, what are you going to do? Ollie off an edge? You’ll prolly impart some surprised random rotation. I wouldn’t call riders who do this flat “inexperienced”. They just haven’t learned that “you always have to be on edge because that’s what’s snowboarding is all about” or whatever. Not everyone can do it. That’s a fact. But many people can. And the board helps.


----------



## rasmasyean (Jan 26, 2008)

Snowolf said:


> When you are flat based on a box, you are not using your edges at all therefore, they have absolutely no effect one way or the other. Now, if along with the board being tuned, you got a base grind, then yes, that can affect things. A board that has not been tuned recently, often has a very worn and uneven base and that can cause the issues you describe, but we are talking apples and oranges here.
> 
> Believe me, I know all about board tuning and maintenance as I have worked in a shop. Most free ride boards have a 1 and 1 for base and side edge bevel while a park board has a 2 and 2 or even a 3 and 3. In addition, many jibbers detune the entire effective edge by dulling the edge. Both procedures are done to prevent (or at least reduce) edge catches when jibbing, they are not done to allow the rider to flat base. Again, if ridden flat based, the edges never come into play. What you experienced was the result of a base that was whack and needed a base grind.
> 
> ...


OK, let’s go by what you’re saying to “reduce catches” and think of it in those words. If the snow is completely smooth, then your edges will never come into play when flat based. But it’s not like a “box” right? So if you detune / bevel your edges, those small bumps and micro-uneven terrain you actually ride on…has less of an opportunity to catch a sharp corner and toss your board around. Maybe you can grind your base to help with it, but you can’t grind the terrain to be smooth. You don’t have to be “initiating a turn”, “buttering”, or “spinning” to benefit from tuning. Edges can catch even if you are on a slight edge angle. Which is why you use more extreme angles in highly uneven terrain like mogul fields.


----------



## yusoweird (Apr 6, 2009)

ThirdEye said:


> for the first time ever I'm gonna have to disagree with you man
> 
> I ride flat based all the time (unless I'm on an edge and don't even know it). when the board starts to slip out I adjust edge angle accordingly..my buddy does the same thing
> 
> not that i recommended this for a newer rider


Technically you agreed with him. Snowolf said "Yes you can ride flat based, but not for long.."

That's exactly what you are doing, "when the board starts to slip out I adjust edge angle accordingly." So I don't see why you disagree with him...


----------



## rasmasyean (Jan 26, 2008)

yusoweird said:


> Technically you agreed with him. Snowolf said "Yes you can ride flat based, but not for long.."
> 
> That's exactly what you are doing, "when the board starts to slip out I adjust edge angle accordingly." So I don't see why you disagree with him...


What he means is that he’s not intentionally trying to maintain a slight edge angle in either the toe or heel side. He’s just letting it flow and adjusting it as needed.


----------



## Leo (Nov 24, 2009)

I don't know, but I feel like I'm faster on edge. I do a mixture of flat basing and edging depending on the level of sketch when I do flat base.


----------



## BliND KiNK (Feb 22, 2010)

There really isn't a valid argument to this at all.. it's like saying ice skaters should have bricks on their skates instead of blades.


----------



## yusoweird (Apr 6, 2009)

rasmasyean said:


> What he means is that he’s not intentionally trying to maintain a slight edge angle in either the toe or heel side. He’s just letting it flow and adjusting it as needed.


I know what he means. I am just stating that there isn't really an argument here and that his disagreement is invalid. He is using the same mechanics as described by everyone that you need an EDGE to maintain control. It doesn't matter how much edge you use and how often. It doesn't matter if he is intentionally trying to or not. It is just like walking, when I walk, I don't intentionally try to take bigger steps, but some people take big steps anyway. Whatever feels natural. But the mechanics of it stays the same at the end. And that is, you cannot ride flat in control unless you use your edge *at some point*. And for some people, you have to use edge all of the time...


----------



## rasmasyean (Jan 26, 2008)

Snowolf said:


> But those small bumps and irregularities in the snow are not exerting any appreciable force upon the board. As long as the board is tracking true tip to tail, an edge catch cannot happen. With the weight of the rider and the inertia of the moving board and rider through the snow, it takes quite a bit of force to affect the boards momentum. It is the rider`s body movements reacting to changes in the riding environment that create the really significant undesirable rotational forces that create board pivot. Edges have no influence on these much greater forces.
> 
> 
> Again, the important question here is why would a rider want to have to deal with all of these variables when there is a much easier, faster and more efficient way to ride, by using their edges????


Well, if you want to look at it that way also… when the terrain exerts influence on the “rider’s body movements” which causes minute inadvertent edging, a 3 degree bevel will mean he has 3.1 degrees from the surface plane to tilt on the “wrong edge” to catch…vs. a 0 degree bevel which by that time, he would have been 3.1 degrees PAST the point of no return. Well, I’m not sure if 0.1 degrees is that bad but you get the point. So in principle a 3 degree bevel gives you 6 degrees of “rocking freedom” more than a 0 degree bevel. That’s pretty forgiving I think.

Even if you are on a slight edge, this will still make it more forgiving to ride “almost flat-based”. Even if you have a robot foot, your flesh and boots, as well as bindings are flexible. When you have a larger affordable margin of error, your board can wobble, rock, bounce, much more before you lose control. If you are really really good, then maybe having your board and body tossed around is no big deal. But until you go pro, you can use this edge (I’m so punny ).

As for why you care for this forgiveness in flat based anyway? Maybe some people like to approach a hit like this so they can Ollie off a centered stance instead of slight edge to make sure they go strait? Maybe they do use a slight edge but just want to have the extra rocking freedom anyway when going “almost flat”. Whatever the case, maybe it’s just fun to stand up straight instead of with pressure over the toe / heel. Not everyone has to up their FIS carving standards or whatever to snowboard in some “efficient” way. Some people just want shortcuts to do some things they find fun or easier for themselves!


----------



## rasmasyean (Jan 26, 2008)

Snowolf said:


> Actually, less edge bevel will make it much easier to ride with very low edge angles. Instead of needing to tilt the board 3 degrees to engage the edge, the rider only needs to raise it one degree. If riding flat based, a more aggressive edge like this will actually help keep this wobble under control as the rider can react faster to it than he can with a 3 degree bevel.


Only from a certain aspect. It may be easier to engage the edge, but since you have a 2 degree margin of error so to speak (vs. 6), only the “quicker” rider can react faster. The “slower” rider will lose control faster and slam.



Snowolf said:


> I will repeat what I have said many times, yes, ride off a lip flat based. I don't know how many times I have to say that before you get off that subject. My point always has been that riding flat based for long distances as in cruising down a groomer is a piss poor way to ride a snowboard. It actually makes riding far more difficult not easier as you claim because the rider must be constantly making corrections and saves, rather than just slightly tilting the board and riding care free.
> 
> Any rider will tell you that it takes a lot more concentration and precision to 50/50 down a box than it does to just cruise a groomer on edge. Certainly you are free to ride any way you want, but when giving out "advice" give correct information.


I agree riding really long distances flat isn’t the hottest idea, but I just wanted to stress that doesn’t necessarily mean you should never ride flat and perhaps for a short duration in high speeds. My point is that those constant corrections and saves become sort of like intuition to some people. Just like 50-50’s are to rail junkies. The “advice” is that you can actually build this intuition via practice...and reduce the curve by tuning. For some, the curve is shallow…for others steep. Just like any other type of riding...tbh.

Here's a flat based video I found.
You can see that he goes flat and then he like bounces his body arround (maybe a rythm initiation thing) and at the end if you watch his board, it fishtails slightly because of this and he adjusts it back real quick with little to no effort. Because right after, he is still balanced enough to execute a ground trick.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ueh3ybqkmg4


----------



## david_z (Dec 14, 2009)

rasmasyean said:


> Only from a certain aspect. It may be easier to engage the edge, but since you have a 2 degree margin of error so to speak (vs. 6), only the “quicker” rider can react faster. The “slower” rider will lose control faster and slam.


Of course, a more experienced rider is always going to be able to react _faster_ than a less-experienced rider. But it doesn't make sense to say that a less-capable rider needs triple the margin of error (i.e., 6 degrees vs 2 degrees) in order to engage an edge.

He's already slower-to-react, handicapping him by making it more difficult to engage the edge is _not_ going to keep him from losing control and slamming. If anything, it could make it worse, because by the time he's "reacting" to the first disturbance, another disturbance might have already set in.


----------



## rasmasyean (Jan 26, 2008)

david_z said:


> Of course, a more experienced rider is always going to be able to react _faster_ than a less-experienced rider. But it doesn't make sense to say that a less-capable rider needs triple the margin of error (i.e., 6 degrees vs 2 degrees) in order to engage an edge.
> 
> He's already slower-to-react, handicapping him by making it more difficult to engage the edge is _not_ going to keep him from losing control and slamming. If anything, it could make it worse, because by the time he's "reacting" to the first disturbance, another disturbance might have already set in.


Sorry I might not have made it clear. By engaging the edge, I was refering to the act of purposely angling the board. In the 1 bevel case, a rider on edge 2 degrees can accidentally engage the opposite edge if the terrain or bumps or balance make the board 3 degrees off. However, in the 3 bevel case, a rider on edge 4 degrees will experience the same when he is 7 degrees off.

If they are both flat, the former has 1 degrees on either side before it starts to engage an edge and cause a sudden "jolt". 2 degrees of margin. But the latter has 3 on either side. 6 degrees of margin.

Also, what comes into play is that beveled edges are slightly higher. This reduces the chance of a small protusion in the ground catching it by a small amount. Especially on icy terrain.

These numbers are for arguments sake only as well. Everyone has their own tolerance as to how much the edge has to be angled in the _wrong_ direction before they can't handle a jolt. For some it might be 2 degrees...for others maybe it's 0.1 degrees before they cartwheel...I don't know.


----------



## Guest (Mar 18, 2010)

i learned the hard way of the importance of this. just back from my first snowboarding holiday, were i came off the board at speed on a red slope because i presumed you only stay on edges when turning. the snowboard pivoted on me at speed i caught an edge and went flying forward. put my hands down and managed to dislocate my right shoulder. 

now i'm in a sling for the next month at least until this heals up. i'm determined to get back out there next year thou and make up for it 

so basically my question is, is there anytime you run with the board flat, on the steep blues and red slopes?


----------



## phile00 (Jan 7, 2009)

I cringe when I see beginners riding fast in a straight line. A lot of times they don't really know how to stay on a slight edge and it's freakin' catastrophic when they bail. Riding totally flat based allows the terrain to decide where the board is going, and what the board is going to do. BAAAAD NEWS!

Just to add, to give some beginners some perspective, bailing riding flat based can be worse than bailing on a big jump. Often on a jump, even if you land on your ass, some of the force of the fall dissipates as you slide. When you catch an edge bombing a hill, you can literally just slam into the ground like hitting a brick wall. If you're on a steep and do this, well, you'll smash into the ground, and then cartwheel. If you're on a green, you'll probably just slingshot into the ground and not slide at all, which is horrible because your body is absorbing nearly 100% of the impact. It's a nice and easy way to break bones.

I caught an edge on a green run as I was paying attention to someone else, looking of to my side, while trying to ollie. It was just me being stupid and kind of dazing for a minute. Needless to say I slingshotted into the ground and I actually popped my ribs out of their cartilage by my chest and in my back.


----------



## rasmasyean (Jan 26, 2008)

matrixblack said:


> so basically my question is, is there anytime you run with the board flat, on the steep blues and red slopes?


Probably not a good idea other than the short time of transitioning between edges in carving. Before I knew you can do more things with a snowboard than just ride faster, I used to bomb the beginner run flat based during the "last run" back to the lodge, but I think at some point in shallow green slopes you reach a managable terminal velocity, but if it's steep, you can prolly reach like 90 mph if you can actually hold it that long.


----------



## Guest (Mar 18, 2010)

cool, so if this is the case then why do so many of the beginner sites and forums demonstrate how to straight glide, which is running with the board totally flat? seems like a bad habit to introduce to beginners if its dangerous to run flat on the steeps. this is what got me, because i thought you are suppose to be able to run straight glides on steeps which i now presume is not the case one dislocated shoulder later


----------



## Mr. Polonia (Apr 5, 2009)

:laugh:..im enjoying this...its like watching ping pong


----------



## rasmasyean (Jan 26, 2008)

matrixblack said:


> cool, so if this is the case then why do so many of the beginner sites and forums demonstrate how to straight glide, which is running with the board totally flat? seems like a bad habit to introduce to beginners if its dangerous to run flat on the steeps. this is what got me, because i thought you are suppose to be able to run straight glides on steeps which i now presume is not the case one dislocated shoulder later


I’m just saying that you don’t want to pick up too much speed. Speed is the killer for pretty much everyone…whether riding flat or steep carving angles. There is a limit to which even the best racer can endure. And people break all sorts of things not flat basing too. The key is stay in control.

There are many ways different ppl snowboard, so there are many models of teaching snowboarding. If you look around for tips and at other arguments on “flat basing”, you can draw a conclusion. Some people can do it, some people can’t. Those who can’t, are sometimes great snowboarders anyway, but they can’t do this method of snowboarding well. So many of them don’t believe that other people can just because they can’t. And hence are always trying to “be on edge” so they never learn. Like when you learn fakie, mostly every double-diamond runner even will have to start on the greens. And you will slam like a noob on the easiest terrain once again.

It’s psychological too. After you have caught an edge and slammed hard many times and even broken things, you are less willing to risk “sketchy” flat riding that you experienced flat basing when you were a noob. Whether it’s because your body reacts by making slight edge adjustments to “straighten out” or not subtly could just be a matter of “training over time”.

If you can’t “yet” don’t worry too much about it. I know people who have boarded for years always on edge and they have a great time. This is one of those techniques that you do not really “need”…unless perhaps it will help you during some type of park riding….which in most cases you won’t go flat for long.

I personally like it because I can stand up straight and relieve my muscles without my knees bent so I can "rest" while coasting. My shallow short highbacks allow me to do this.


----------



## Guest (Mar 19, 2010)

matrixblack said:


> cool, so if this is the case then why do so many of the beginner sites and forums demonstrate how to straight glide, which is running with the board totally flat?


when i'm teaching first timers, we'll do straight glides in the beginner area on almost flat land when working on athletic stance initially. the glide will end with the riders' first j-turns which, for most, is the first intro to edging. so while it's technically true that the beginners will likely be flat boarding for the 15 or 20 feet before they flex the board and turn, it's nothing more than a pragmatic stepping stone they do not dwell on for any longer than necessary.

i also tend to echo snowolf that even absolute first timers are subtly edging even if they don't know it yet.

alasdair


----------



## rasmasyean (Jan 26, 2008)

Snowolf said:


> You may think you are flat basing but in reality you are not. Even when riding "flat based" you are using pressure to constantly make small corrections as needed to control the board. It is not a matter of "some people can and some people can't" I submit that those who think they are doing this simply do not realize that they are subtly using edge pressure. I think you confuse pressure with tilt. The board does not have to be tilted to be edging. I ride with my board "flat based" on the 1 mile flat runout of Heather Canyon all the time, but I am still "edging" to control the board so it does not pivot. It is not a matter of being able to or not; it is a matter of understanding what is actually happening beneath your feet.


So what you’re saying is that the board is “flat” such that the trail looks like a fat line the size of your board, but all the while you are still “on your toes” and the weight is shifted to the toe side of the board. So then I suppose that toe edge is kind of dug in a minute amount (because the snow is soft) so the wind, etc. won’t pivot your board that easily.


----------



## phile00 (Jan 7, 2009)

Also something to consider, if you're bombing in a straight line, it's likely that you're not on an edge 100% of the time. But it is safe to say that you have to be on edge about 95%+ percent of the time. In other words, there may be small instances where you're truly flat based, but on average you're on edge. 

Physics don't just completely go out the door when you go fast, although going faster is going to create momentum which allows subtleties in the terrain to not guide you as much as they would if you were going slower. But a good example is, try riding 100% flat based at a fairly slow speed. If you're doing it right, the board will be at the whim of the terrain, and you'll feel unstable. If you don't begin to get on an edge, you'll bail  Let's also not forget no one goes in a perfectly straight line, so any corrections you make are going to fore an edge to gain control of your direction.

Get a sheet of plastic that's perfectly flat with no grooves and stand up on it while riding down the hill.  It's an extreme exercise in balance, and more often than not, it's not going to be maintained over a long period of time.


----------



## BliND KiNK (Feb 22, 2010)

I'd like to think that any time you switch edges you are flat based (logically?) but that isn't the point it's the argument of whether or not flat based riding for a long time is possible while maintaining control of the board.

I think, I'm trying to follow... but I feel like two people are yelling (in text) at a rock.


----------



## rasmasyean (Jan 26, 2008)

phile00 said:


> Also something to consider, if you're bombing in a straight line, it's likely that you're not on an edge 100% of the time. But it is safe to say that you have to be on edge about 95%+ percent of the time. In other words, there may be small instances where you're truly flat based, but on average you're on edge.
> 
> Physics don't just completely go out the door when you go fast, although going faster is going to create momentum which allows subtleties in the terrain to not guide you as much as they would if you were going slower. But a good example is, try riding 100% flat based at a fairly slow speed. If you're doing it right, the board will be at the whim of the terrain, and you'll feel unstable. If you don't begin to get on an edge, you'll bail Let's also not forget no one goes in a perfectly straight line, so any corrections you make are going to fore an edge to gain control of your direction.
> 
> Get a sheet of plastic that's perfectly flat with no grooves and stand up on it while riding down the hill.  It's an extreme exercise in balance, and more often than not, it's not going to be maintained over a long period of time.


Keep in mind however, that if you’re not riding on ice, your board will sink slightly into the snow even in hardpack. So what you will have is the oncoming fast moving snow on either side of the snowboard giving it a slight push to “straighten” it out when it starts to pivot. If pivoting CW, the tail on the left side gets more push. It pivoting CCW, the tail on the right side gets more push.

Along the same concept, if a small bump in the snow on either side pushes too abruptly, it will give your board more of a jerky pivot. Like if the leading corner edge catches as little bit on it...or the board is slightly off axis and the tail corner catches. Not to mention that the edges are in the shape of an hourglass and not "straight". That’s why detuning and beveling will help in this situation as well. Because it will reduce the jerkiness. It’s sort of like a “streamlining” effect for a lack of a better analogy.

Maybe if you are going faster the left and right speeding snow imparts forces such as how a missile goes straight at high speeds, as well as how super sonic airplanes need less wings. But the fact of the matter is that you will also get more vibrations and bumpiness that might not be controllable by most humans.


----------



## rasmasyean (Jan 26, 2008)

Snowolf said:


> Now in a cross over type of turn, where the rider is using both feet simultaneously to "rock" the board back and forth between edges, there is a very brief moment when the the board is truly "flat based".


Don't forget the snapped carved turn when the board is shot pretty much in the air right above the ground to trasition a turn. Slalom style! woot!


----------



## sepdxsnwbrdr (Feb 5, 2010)

When I ride flat on my rockered board it feels like I'm strapped into a canoe.


----------



## Leo (Nov 24, 2009)

rasmasyean said:


> Don't forget the snapped carved turn when the board is shot pretty much in the air right above the ground to trasition a turn. Slalom style! woot!


I do this for fun lol. Didn't think there was an actual style that utilizes this.

I remember one of my friends commenting on how my carve transitions looked forced. I told him that I was actually hopping from edge to edge for fun.

Come to think of it now, I should be able to do a Michael Jackson then. Never even thought about it that way.


----------



## KIRKRIDER (Mar 18, 2008)

I just come back from Revelstoke (BC)... not much snow, they average 18 meters per year, and this time the lower half of the mountain was dirt. But the snow we had wasa very uinusual and very fast. Packed powder and a sorf of sand like very fine shaved ice on top of it...say 10 cm. The runs were almost empty, and that type of snow would allow bombing flat based straignth down...I reached the speed of light and went back in time 2 weeks...during a snow storm, enjoyed the amazing pow...and went back to the future...lol
jokes apart..that was some weird fast snow..the hold of it carving was really something.



Snowolf said:


> Ride the edge. Even the guys who think they are bombing runs flat based are in reality using their edges; just at very low edge angles. Yes you can ride flat based, but not for long. Without some dge engagement, there is nothing to prevent board pivot and thus an edge catch. When riding totally flat based, even wind will created pivot as it hits the rider. Uneven snow, compound fall lines and even asymmetrical drag will create board pivot.
> 
> Stay on the edge when riding at high speed and you will be fine. learn precise edge control and you can use very low edge angles to ride long distances in straight lines.


----------



## rasmasyean (Jan 26, 2008)

Leo said:


> I do this for fun lol. Didn't think there was an actual style that utilizes this.
> 
> I remember one of my friends commenting on how my carve transitions looked forced. I told him that I was actually hopping from edge to edge for fun.
> 
> Come to think of it now, I should be able to do a Michael Jackson then. Never even thought about it that way.


Maybe you can do this too!

Video | Men's PGS: Expert analysis | NBC Olympics


----------



## rasmasyean (Jan 26, 2008)

sepdxsnwbrdr said:


> When I ride flat on my rockered board it feels like I'm strapped into a canoe.


And what does being strapped into a canoe feel like?


----------



## Deviant (Dec 22, 2009)

Leo said:


> I do this for fun lol. Didn't think there was an actual style that utilizes this.
> 
> I remember one of my friends commenting on how my carve transitions looked forced. I told him that I was actually hopping from edge to edge for fun.
> 
> Come to think of it now, I should be able to do a Michael Jackson then. Never even thought about it that way.


I do the same thing sometimes, just for fun, never really see anyone else doing it so it's nice to hear, lol.


----------



## phile00 (Jan 7, 2009)

pawlo said:


> I just come back from Revelstoke (BC)... not much snow, they average 18 meters per year, and this time the lower half of the mountain was dirt. But the snow we had wasa very uinusual and very fast. Packed powder and a sorf of sand like very fine shaved ice on top of it...say 10 cm. The runs were almost empty, and that type of snow would allow bombing flat based straignth down...I reached the speed of light and went back in time 2 weeks...during a snow storm, enjoyed the amazing pow...and went back to the future...lol
> jokes apart..that was some weird fast snow..the hold of it carving was really something.


18 meters of snow is 59 feet.  We know what you meant though.


----------

