# Is it normal for carving to make my legs extremely sore?



## Durangotang (Feb 2, 2020)

Hey, all! This is my 4th season snowboarding. My first few days, I experienced literally zero leg soreness, probably because I couldn't stand up for more than 20 feet lol. 

But I figured out how to ride it, and with skidding my turns all the way down the mountain, I was able to ride all day. At the end of the day I'd definitely be feeling some soreness, but I'd still be able to go back out the next day for more. This was still beginner riding, so pretty slow and almost no carving.


But what I'm realizing as my riding progresses from primarily skids to primarily carves, it feels as though my endurance is non-existent. 

I don't want to say I'm the fastest, hardest, best carver on my mountain, but I definitely do put a lot of emphasis on carving hard. I don't see anybody making an effort to just carve for the sake of carving, then there's me doing nothing but carving. 

On any given run, I'll see people more of less flat basing , skidding, and hitting small jumps on the trail (are these called rollers?). 

But when I go on the same trail, all I want to do is see how nice of a carve I can do. So I'm carving across the entire run, bending my knees reeeeally hard, carving as hard as I can. When I see a roller, I don't see it as an opportunity to jump. I see rollers as a big bump to absorb with my knees and propel myself into an edge change. 

So I guess what I'm trying to say is, ALL I DO IS CARVE. That's literally the reason I go out there is just to carve. 

Is it normal for riding this way to destroy my legs? Everyone (myself included) says bend your knees. And I realized the more I bend my knees, the harder I carve. And the sorer I get.

Anyone else here a carver? Do you find that it is very intense on your body? Is there anything you've found that helps?


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## Rip154 (Sep 23, 2017)

You carve you carve you carve, no slide.

It is harder to do that all the time, but you could mix it up a little to make it last, or start lifting and stretching, and drink enough so your muscles don’t cramp up.

Start of the season my back leg lasts about 3 hours intense riding, then I feel it right above the knee. Later I can go all day.


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## Scalpelman (Dec 5, 2017)

Yup. Totally normal. That’s why I’m in the best shape of the year in the winter. Balance board squats, kettle bell squats and yoga (not that zen bs- just yoga for sake of stretching). 

But yes as above mix it up. Take a few side hits. Duck into some trees. Your edge control will make you a better rider all around. 


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## Durangotang (Feb 2, 2020)

Thanks for the tips guys. I think after the snowboard season this year, I will get back into mountain unicycling (thank goodness my ski resort lets me ride my unicycle at their summer bike park) hopefully that will get me into better shape for next season lol. I need to ride with more people I think because nobody I ride with likes to ride the way I do. 

It's really hard for me to go play in the tress when I have beautiful corduroy taunting me


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## SEWiShred (Jan 19, 2019)

Yes, it takes a lot of work to drive that edge into the snow, especially if you have a stiffer board, double especially if it has torsional stiffness (like stiffness on how you can move your toes in opposite directions up or down). I usually save carving for the end of the day, start out in the park, maybe play on something fun like my Rosi Mini, then carve hard because I know I won't be the same after I start carving, tired and less responsive.


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## Durangotang (Feb 2, 2020)

SEWiShred said:


> Yes, it takes a lot of work to drive that edge into the snow, especially if you have a stiffer board, double especially if it has torsional stiffness (like stiffness on how you can move your toes in opposite directions up or down). I usually save carving for the end of the day, start out in the park, maybe play on something fun like my Rosi Mini, then carve hard because I know I won't be the same after I start carving, tired and less responsive.


Good to know! Yeah that makes sense, because the board I carve on is huge for my weight. I'm probably about 195 pounds and the board I ride is a nitro Magnum 168. Super big and super stiff, it begs to be ridden hard and fast!


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## Phedder (Sep 13, 2014)

Cycling, Squats, and Deadlifts. Need the endurance and strength in your legs to carve all day.


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## speedjason (May 2, 2013)

Of course, you are holding a fixed position. Think about holding in a half squat position for 1 minute you gonna be sore.


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## deagol (Mar 26, 2014)

Upper Hades is a great run to practice carving without getting sore. It's not steep enough to get the kind of G-forces going that would make you sore


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## Scalpelman (Dec 5, 2017)

deagol said:


> Upper Hades is a great run to practice carving without getting sore. It's not steep enough to get the kind of G-forces going that would make you sore


Don’t know that run but great tip. Low angle is best to keep practice form. That’s where I practice touching the snow. 


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## Scalpelman (Dec 5, 2017)

Durangotang said:


> Good to know! Yeah that makes sense, because the board I carve on is huge for my weight. I'm probably about 195 pounds and the board I ride is a nitro Magnum 168. Super big and super stiff, it begs to be ridden hard and fast!


Yeah if you have the fresh corduroy and long stiff camber deck then you are all set. Just need to blast some squats when you’re not on the mountain. 


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## Durangotang (Feb 2, 2020)

Thanks for the replies guys. I'll just keep eating my wheaties and just sending it! 

Funny, I was watching a YouTube video about snowboarding technique and homeboy said something along the lines of "when the terrain gets steep, make your turns smaller to control speed". Maybe that's why I'm so sore, because when it is a steeper run, my turns get a lot bigger lol


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## NT.Thunder (Jan 4, 2020)

I reckon you just need a balanced life which as you get older is harder than you think to achieve.

I reckon from 20's to 35 you're nearly bullet proof in terms of eating, drinking and limited exercise but from there it rapidly goes pear shaped, well did for me between 35 and 40. young kids, jobs and no time for yourself. I was close to an unhealthy 100kg's at 40 when something had to give. And I'm naturally not a big guy. I changed jobs, kids got older/self sufficient and found time for myself. Gym 3-5 times a week, balanced eating, cut out all soft and sugar drinks, stopped the shit food and exercised/gym 3-5 times a week. Dropped to around 75kg, stronger all around especially core and it made an unbelievable change to my riding. It's hard to maitain though but feel 100% on where I was 6 years ago. 46 now and in the best shape mentally and physically I've been for a long time.

I can comfortably carve all day, don't get me wrong I can feel it each day but it's a good feeling. Flexibility has also improved my carving, getting low and driving out of turns is so much fun. I always hit the slopes to play around with hits and jumps and ride switch but I just find myself now locking into carves down low.


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## WigMar (Mar 17, 2019)

+1 on doing yoga and another activity like biking. The flexibility and core strength yoga has given me has really improved my riding. Nothing gets my legs in shape quite like carving though. The dynamic squatting coupled with absorbing shock and fighting the g-forces really gets the legs working.

I like getting to the slopes early so I can get those fresh cords. I'll spend a few hours carving as hard as I can. As I get tired, the carving gets mellower till I'm kinda surfing around. 

Pow days aren't too different. I like getting to the slopes early as well. I'll carve up the pow on the groomers until it gets tracked out too badly, and then I'm in the trees.


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## Donutz (May 12, 2010)

WigMar said:


> +1 on doing yoga and another activity like biking. The flexibility and core strength yoga has given me has really improved my riding. Nothing gets my legs in shape quite like carving though. The dynamic squatting coupled with absorbing shock and fighting the g-forces really gets the legs working.
> 
> I like getting to the slopes early so I can get those fresh cords. I'll spend a few hours carving as hard as I can. As I get tired, the carving gets mellower till I'm kinda surfing around.
> 
> Pow days aren't too different. I like getting to the slopes early as well. I'll carve up the pow on the groomers until it gets tracked out too badly, and then I'm in the trees.


Interestingly, although cross-country mountain biking is great for endurance and fitness, I've found that downhilling is more useful as pre-snowboarding training. Mostly because you have to stay standing on the bike for most of your lap, and on a downhill-specific bike, pretty much all pedaling is stand-up.


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## Scalpelman (Dec 5, 2017)

Donutz said:


> Interestingly, although cross-country mountain biking is great for endurance and fitness, I've found that downhilling is more useful as pre-snowboarding training. Mostly because you have to stay standing on the bike for most of your lap, and on a downhill-specific bike, pretty much all pedaling is stand-up.


That makes sense as snowboarding is really a controlled fall, just like downhill biking. I’m gonna have to get a bike again. 


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## WigMar (Mar 17, 2019)

Durangotang said:


> Good to know! Yeah that makes sense, because the board I carve on is huge for my weight. I'm probably about 195 pounds and the board I ride is a nitro Magnum 168. Super big and super stiff, it begs to be ridden hard and fast!


I just checked out the Nitro Magnum. That dual digressive sidecut sounds pretty interesting at 7.5- 4.8- 7.5. What does that feel like? Do your turns tighten up in the middle? Where are you riding? Can you make big sweeping turns or are you mostly doing tight carves? 

I like carving on traditional radial sidecuts, and I think the smallest sidecut I carve with is 8m or 9m. Usually I'm riding 10m-14m sidecuts. I find it's much easier to center flex a board with a larger sidecut into a smaller turn. When I try to force a larger turn from a smaller sidecut, I get chatter and a loss of traction. I can't imagine a senario where I'd want a 4.8m sidecut... Maybe in an indoor dome or on a really small hill?


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## Durangotang (Feb 2, 2020)

WigMar said:


> I just checked out the Nitro Magnum. That dual digressive sidecut sounds pretty interesting at 7.5- 4.8- 7.5. What does that feel like? Do your turns tighten up in the middle? Where are you riding? Can you make big sweeping turns or are you mostly doing tight carves?
> 
> I like carving on traditional radial sidecuts, and I think the smallest sidecut I carve with is 8m or 9m. Usually I'm riding 10m-14m sidecuts. I find it's much easier to center flex a board with a larger sidecut into a smaller turn. When I try to force a larger turn from a smaller sidecut, I get chatter and a loss of traction. I can't imagine a senario where I'd want a 4.8m sidecut... Maybe in an indoor dome or on a really small hill?


I could not tell you how that side cut feels. I'd assume it feels really small. No, I'm a cheap ass so my nitro Magnum is a 2005 model year. They made them better back then , IMO. it has a 9.7 / 7.8 meter side cut.

I ride primarily at purgatory in Durango Colorado. This board is pretty good for out there. No alpine stuff, so I don't have super wide open runs. But yeah I do make pretty big turns on this thing. It also does smaller turns ok, but it likes to be ridden "wide open throttle" making super big turns.

I didn't realize they made the side cut that small on the newer ones.

Props to nitro because I ordered this snowboard used from eBay last year and messaged nitro to ask them the specs of this board from 2005 and they had the info for me.

I'd like to get a board with a bigger side cut as I get better at carving, but OEM boards don't exist for people like me unfortunately. The nitro Magnum 168 seems like my best bet for carving unless I get a custom board made. 


You see, I have size 14 boots. I am limited in my riding ability with these. I don't have much overhang on my boots, but it's there and I do boot out carving already if I go pretty hard. 

I honestly have reached the practical limits of my board In that regard. And this is already 27.5 wide at the waist, it's not like I can just go buy a bigger board. 

I think maybe next season I will buy a custom snowboard, and get properly fitted for snowboard boots too. I think I probably need a size 13 anyway. 

This comment is rambling at this point


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## Durangotang (Feb 2, 2020)

WigMar said:


> I just checked out the Nitro Magnum. That dual digressive sidecut sounds pretty interesting at 7.5- 4.8- 7.5. What does that feel like? Do your turns tighten up in the middle? Where are you riding? Can you make big sweeping turns or are you mostly doing tight carves?
> 
> I like carving on traditional radial sidecuts, and I think the smallest sidecut I carve with is 8m or 9m. Usually I'm riding 10m-14m sidecuts. I find it's much easier to center flex a board with a larger sidecut into a smaller turn. When I try to force a larger turn from a smaller sidecut, I get chatter and a loss of traction. I can't imagine a senario where I'd want a 4.8m sidecut... Maybe in an indoor dome or on a really small hill?


Also, what the hell kind of boards are you riding with a 14m side cut? Are you a hardbooter or something?


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## Myoko (Dec 11, 2018)

Scalpelman said:


> Yup. Totally normal. That’s why I’m in the best shape of the year in the winter. Balance board squats, kettle bell squats and yoga *(not that zen bs- just yoga for sake of stretching).*
> 
> Lol Love this. I do soft sand fast beach walks and practice snowboarding on a vibrating platform. Also have no interest in stretching, just leg squatting strength and fitness in case I get stuck in the middle of nowhere in deep powder.
> 
> And yes @Durangotang , your legs will ache if you are doing it well, quickly in fact unless they are very strong. Must be hard getting a board with flippers for feet though


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## SushiLover (Sep 17, 2020)

Durangotang said:


> Also, what the hell kind of boards are you riding with a 14m side cut? Are you a hardbooter or something?



Spring Break Slush Slasher 151


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## SEWiShred (Jan 19, 2019)

Durangotang said:


> I could not tell you how that side cut feels. I'd assume it feels really small. No, I'm a cheap ass so my nitro Magnum is a 2005 model year. They made them better back then , IMO. it has a 9.7 / 7.8 meter side cut.


I do agree with you. I still have a 2010 Flow Quantum that I used excessively for years, and still ride, and it's still in great shape. All these green companies like Mervin use bean epoxy and all this weak stuff that just doesn't hold up as long. When I see environmental stuff in a snowboard website I run away because the bad stuff is the stuff that makes a strong snowboard.


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## Scalpelman (Dec 5, 2017)

SEWiShred said:


> I do agree with you. I still have a 2010 Flow Quantum that I used excessively for years, and still ride, and it's still in great shape. All these green companies like Mervin use bean epoxy and all this weak stuff that just doesn't hold up as long. When I see environmental stuff in a snowboard website I run away because the bad stuff is the stuff that makes a strong snowboard.


I always worried about the same about bean glue. Any data?


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## SEWiShred (Jan 19, 2019)

No data just experience. But from my experience working on jet ski hulls and body work and stuff, I think they need to prove it works just as well. There are lots of different resins that won't work with certain material. For example, some jet ski hulls are made of SMC which is extremely similar to fiberglass, but if you use traditional polyester resin it won't bind well. I have a project jet ski someone used polyester resin on to fix a hole, and after some time and water exposure you can just pry off the polyester resin with a screw driver. But when it goes on it seems great and like it's a solid bond. 

Another good example is Bondo when used on metal. The Bondo and metal expand and shrink at different rates. So after enough freeze/thaw cycles the Bondo can crack or even just fall off. 

Gluing different materials together in a way that will last an extremely long time is a lot more difficult than people think. We know traditional epoxy holds on pretty well, there's tons of old boards out there that have no issues after a lot of years and abuse.


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## jxs1984 (Jan 20, 2015)

I was in the same boat as you. The more I carve aggressively all over the mountain, the more exhausted I get. Little by little I start to get my gears dialed in. These factors helped me conserve energy all day:

1. Rotate your highbacks parallel to the edge
2. Increase highbacks' forward lean +2 or higher
3. Dial in your stance width
4. Dial in your binding angles
5. Bindings with canted footbed 
6. Stiffer and proper fitting boots
7. Soft and proper fitting feet insoles 

After I had everything dialed in (took me 3 winter seasons to figure it out all by myself) the difference in exhaustion was huge. Zero fatigues. I can do my aggressive carves all day long from dusk to dawn (as long as I bring a backpack with water and snacks) 

Good luck!


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