# Korua Shapes Pencil Plus



## Craig64 (Jul 16, 2015)

A beautiful looking board. Don't see that many around. Would love to try one.


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## MR. (Oct 9, 2015)

I haven't ridden the + version, but I've had the regular Pencil 63 for the last two seasons. The board obviously carves well (just watch any of the Korua videos), and is really good in powder. It's very directional, and likes to be driven off the back foot. I haven't ridden a Jones Flagship, but I would think the Pencil will be a very different ride. I actually have a few Koruas, and they are holding up pretty well, but I've heard some people complaining about delams on the tail. I think the + versions are probably a little sturdier.


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## Fielding (Feb 15, 2015)

Carving boards carve. Powder boards powder. No one board does both things very well. You wanna do both things? Do yourself a favor and get two boards. The Korua videos seem to feature bros “carving” in super soft conditions. For real: I like the big turn focused marketing. The shapes are unique. The color scheme and overall styling is very cool. (Do they have to pay Apple licensing for doing the all white thing? Does every Korua come with a pair of earbuds?) I pawed some of their boards in a shop recently and was underwhelmed with the apparent build quality/fit and finish. What factory is making them? Anybody know? Seemed like the boards had lots more style than substance. At least they don’t try to sell boards using some dumb serrated edge “grip” technology.


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

MR. said:


> but I've heard some people complaining about delams on the tail.


You mean you've read about one random guy rage posting about how Korua did not replace his obviously impact-damaged tail chip on his Korua?

I guess now we can all say we've heard about some guy hearing about people complaining about delams on the tail.....


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## MR. (Oct 9, 2015)

F1EA said:


> You mean you've read about one random guy rage posting about how Korua did not replace his obviously impact-damaged tail chip on his Korua?
> 
> I guess now we can all say we've heard about some guy hearing about people complaining about delams on the tail.....


Actually no, but your right; I shouldn't repeat what I've heard from others. My personal experience with the Koruas that I own is that they ride great (both on groomers and in powder), but are a little more fragile than the other brands I also own (Endeavor and K2). They were also less expensive than my other boards. I have not ridden, but have fondled, a Pencil + and the construction seems sturdier (but is definitely lighter) than my regular model.

Although I have never had a warranty issue, I have had nothing but good experiences dealing with the guys at Korua.


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## SGboarder (Jun 24, 2012)

Fielding said:


> Carving boards carve. Powder boards powder. No one board does both things very well. You wanna do both things? Do yourself a favor and get two boards.


No. Actually a lot of board design aspects that make a board good at carving also make it good in powder and vice versa (already discussed and explained in the other thread). For most people it is entirely possible to have one board that covers both carving and pow.


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## Fielding (Feb 15, 2015)

SGboarder said:


> No. Actually a lot of board design aspects that make a board good at carving also make it good in powder and vice versa (already discussed and explained in the other thread). For most people it is entirely possible to have one board that covers both carving and pow.


I agree that for most people one snowboard can cover both carving and pow. That's because most people don't ride well.

Carving board:
narrower waist and less volume than an all mountain board -you want the opposite of float
long effective edge -longer than an all mountain board
carve shape depends on sidecut radius (or radii) 
pure camber
fairly stiff to very stiff flex
must be strong in the nose area
slight binding setback

Powder board:
wide -at minimum it needs a wide nose for float
effective edge is smaller than an all mountain board 
larger sidecut radius...the board needs float...powder turns come off of the base, not the metal edges
pure camber is not ideal...better to have some rocker up front...often flat between the bindings
shouldn't be too stiff
large setback often with a chopped tail to reduce fatigue


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## Fred Keller (Jan 3, 2018)

Well,

I couldn't resist and pulled the trigger - got the pencil plus. First impression: It is insanely light. Although it has a similar size as the flagship, the flagship feels bulky and heavy weight. The top sheet looks beautiful. The camber is more aggressive compared to the flagship. The waist width of both boards is exactly the same with 26,9 cm. The nose of the flagship is of course wider as you can see on the attached photo. 

The flex of the board is slightly softer. If the flagship is a 9 I would rank the pencil plus with 8. 

I cannot wait to get it on the slopes. Luckily I will be in Laax in nearly 2 weeks. 

All, thanks for your comments and feel free to carry on with the discussion - it is an interesting topic. 
Once I am back from Laax I will put a review in the board section of the forum. 

Cheers

FRED


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## SGboarder (Jun 24, 2012)

Fielding said:


> I agree that for most people one snowboard can cover both carving and pow. That's because most people don't ride well.
> 
> Carving board:
> narrower waist and less volume than an all mountain board -you want the opposite of float
> ...


Not gonna get into a debate what it means to 'ride well' enough for you - I'd rather have board designers build boards that fit people and their ability (rather than force people to ride a in certain way to conform with board design).

In any case the above parameters are not contradictory
- Waist width: not super important, a happy medium (maybe slightly wide) will work perfectly fine for both pow and carving
- Effective edge: Yes, long for carving. Does not really matter for pow, so it is not conflicting.
- Sidecut radius: Yes, important for carving. Does not really matter for pow, so it is not conflicting.
- Camber profile: Yes, camber for carving. And camber works perfectly fine for pow boards, especially with some early rise (which is not particularly detrimental). 
- Stiffness: Actually not that different
- Setback: By no means need 'large setback' for powder (let alone a chopped tail)

And you forgot taper, which (to an extent) is also beneficial for both carving and powder performance.

See where this is going?
But may be take it from a board designer (whose boards incidentally excel at...wait for it...carving *and* powder):



Mig Fullbag said:


> That's simply because pow and "carving" boards share a lot of caracteristics needed to perform at both. They both work a whole lot better with taper, setback, and when they don't fold fore of the front binding. That is why the main brands are now marketing their pow boards for both. Strangely, they did not seem to know this before the pow/carve board craze (rolling eyes)... What is now considered a pow board will be outperformed by a carving board when higher speeds and harder conditions will come into play. Longer effective edge, a bit less sidecut, no wavy edges, and stiffer flex will be highly desirable.


http://www.snowboardingforum.com/boards/253650-easy-carving-board-ice-powder-3.html#post3275002


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## Nolefan2011 (Mar 12, 2011)

Fielding said:


> SGboarder said:
> 
> 
> > No. Actually a lot of board design aspects that make a board good at carving also make it good in powder and vice versa (already discussed and explained in the other thread). For most people it is entirely possible to have one board that covers both carving and pow.
> ...


Or maybe you don’t ride well, because many pros don’t use powder specific boards, and have camber between their bindings with sidecuts, and make it look easy. See Iguchi, Mueller, etc.

I’ve read your diatribe on wax, now specific boards for specific applications only. Maybe take the training wheels off and learn to ride yourself...


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## david_z (Dec 14, 2009)

Do you know what the materials/construction difference is between the Plus and the regular?

(I suppose I could ask them myself, but seems as you've already bought the Plus I figure you might already know)


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## SGboarder (Jun 24, 2012)

david_z said:


> Do you know what the materials/construction difference is between the Plus and the regular?
> 
> (I suppose I could ask them myself, but seems as you've already bought the Plus I figure you might already know)


+ has carbon in the laminate and different core mostly. Also different base and topsheet materials, but that is more marketing/psychlogical.


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## Fielding (Feb 15, 2015)

Nolefan2011 said:


> Or maybe you don’t ride well, because many pros don’t use powder specific boards, and have camber between their bindings with sidecuts, and make it look easy. See Iguchi, Mueller, etc.
> 
> I’ve read your diatribe on wax, now specific boards for specific applications only. Maybe take the training wheels off and learn to ride yourself...


There are compromise boards. They exist because conditions often vary through the day and from place to place on the mountain. Back country? Committing to a pow specific shape isn’t usually a good idea. You might need to do some edge work to get to and from the deep. 

Awesome riders can ride almost anything in any conditions. Within limits. But having the right board for the job is a big boost. 

Yesterday I purposefully rode a pow oriented board in bumpy wet snow. It was exactly the wrong tool for the job. I was riding with some slow people/beginners and just wanted to goof around. It was really hard to carve a turn. The softer flex and bigger nose nose made things tricky. Every lump wanted to send me into the air. I couldn’t angulate the board enough to really carve a good turn through the crud. It was really challenging. I learned something from it. 

Don’t hate me because I have a goodbye wax job.


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## SGboarder (Jun 24, 2012)

Fielding said:


> There are compromise boards. They exist because conditions often vary through the day and from place to place on the mountain. Back country? Committing to a pow specific shape isn’t usually a good idea. You might need to do some edge work to get to and from the deep.
> 
> Awesome riders can ride almost anything in any conditions. Within limits. But having the right board for the job is a big boost.
> 
> Yesterday I purposefully rode a pow oriented board in bumpy wet snow. It was exactly the wrong tool for the job. I was riding with some slow people/beginners and just wanted to goof around. It was really hard to carve a turn. The softer flex and bigger nose nose made things tricky. Every lump wanted to send me into the air. I couldn’t angulate the board enough to really carve a good turn through the crud. It was really challenging. I learned something from it.


May be you really do not need to work on your carving technique, because one of the cult boards in the hardboot extreme carving community is the Burton Fish. Has all the things that you said don't work for carving deck (and that seem to give you trouble): Big, soft-ish nose, short effective edge, tight sidecut radius, chopped of tail etc Yet serious caring guys swear by it.


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## Nolefan2011 (Mar 12, 2011)

Fielding said:


> There are compromise boards. They exist because conditions often vary through the day and from place to place on the mountain. Back country? Committing to a pow specific shape isn’t usually a good idea. You might need to do some edge work to get to and from the deep.
> 
> Awesome riders can ride almost anything in any conditions. Within limits. But having the right board for the job is a big boost.
> 
> ...


Well no shit there are specifics about each specific board that make riding "easier". I own a Capita Spring break. Thing bobs like an apple and I was unable to sink it. Literally tried. That said, I don't need it. I am perfectly fine riding a BSOD in deep snow up to my quad.

As far as backcountry goes, VERY FEW people are riding pow that needs a snorkel. If you are riding in the US this year, outside of blower snow that's piled up, you probably couldn't find it in the backcountry. A trip to Japan? Yeah, sure, pow board would be great for tits deep snow.

But 99% of this board can get away with a Flight Attendant, Arbor Iguchi, Jones Flagship, Capita BSOD, etc without ever needing a pow board, because unless you are consistently up to your waist, a good rider could take a NS Evo out and ride pow just fine. 

I am more responding to your comment that most people are bad riders, so 1 board is fine. It's actually the opposite. Most people that need to build out a quiver, need to cheat in powder because they can't get their float attendant to float enough on a 15 inch day, and feel they needed a dedicated pow board.

It's the same thing with park boards. Mark McMorris can hit rails with a stiffer cambered stick. He doesn't need a soft noodle to ride park.

I tried a Spring Break. Love it. Easiest pow rider I've ever ridden. Do I need it? Nope, that's why it's up for sale in the buy / sell section. Unless I'm in 3 plus feet everyday, the return is minimal to just riding my Guch or BSOD. And I feel I am a good enough rider that I don't need it. My back leg isn't burning because I have technique. I think plenty of posters on this board do that too.


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## Argo (Feb 25, 2010)

The pow carve deck is a think and its good at both but doesnt excel at them. When im hitting groomers I ride a cambered from tip to tail board thats made for it. Fullbag diamond blade. I can ride it in pow and trees but why torture myself

If im in deep powder i ride a powder board with an early rise sholen nose nose, deep setback and a snub or swallow tail. Fullbag lifer. Yeah i can carve it but its not the same thing

When i need to have a single big mountain board that can do steeps with crud conditions, groomers and hold its own in pow i would get a board like whats mentioned... pow carve deck. Stiff, cambered between the feet, early rise nose, tapered and setback 3cm or so.

Not sure why people are bashing the desire for a quiver. Doesnt have to do with ability, more with disposable income...


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## Fielding (Feb 15, 2015)

SGboarder said:


> May be you really do not need to work on your carving technique, because one of the cult boards in the hardboot extreme carving community is the Burton Fish. Has all the things that you said don't work for carving deck (and that seem to give you trouble): Big, soft-ish nose, short effective edge, tight sidecut radius, chopped of tail etc Yet serious caring guys swear by it.


Pow boards usually have the opposite of a tight sidecut. The sides are often close to flat/straight. 

I can’t say I’ve heard of any carve bros putting plates on a fish. You mean for carving or for special pow? Most full on carvers I know seem to believe their carve setups suck in pow. Many reach for soft boots after it snows. Or they’ll put plates on a OSin 3800 or similar. Or maybe a 4wd. The problem with hardboots on a board not made for them is the boots overpowering the board. It’s not pleasant.


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## Fielding (Feb 15, 2015)

Nolefan2011 said:


> Well no shit there are specifics about each specific board that make riding "easier". I own a Capita Spring break. Thing bobs like an apple and I was unable to sink it. Literally tried. That said, I don't need it. I am perfectly fine riding a BSOD in deep snow up to my quad.
> 
> As far as backcountry goes, VERY FEW people are riding pow that needs a snorkel. If you are riding in the US this year, outside of blower snow that's piled up, you probably couldn't find it in the backcountry. A trip to Japan? Yeah, sure, pow board would be great for tits deep snow.
> 
> ...


It not just about making it easier. Would you play 18 holes of golf with one club? Surf Big Waves (like EA Classic or Mavs) on a 6’4” retro fish? Ride an Enduro course on a Harley sportster? Play squash with a tennis racquet? All are possible. But it’s better to use the right tool.


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## Nolefan2011 (Mar 12, 2011)

Argo said:


> The pow carve deck is a think and its good at both but doesnt excel at them. When im hitting groomers I ride a cambered from tip to tail board thats made for it. Fullbag diamond blade. I can ride it in pow and trees but why torture myself
> 
> If im in deep powder i ride a powder board with an early rise sholen nose nose, deep setback and a snub or swallow tail. Fullbag lifer. Yeah i can carve it but its not the same thing
> 
> ...


I’m not bashing at all. It’s personal choice. I was replying to the comment that most people dont have a quiver because they aren’t good riders. 

I have a quiver by the way. 6 boards (3 too many?). But having one doesn’t mean I can or can’t ride.


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## Fielding (Feb 15, 2015)

You don’t have to have a pile of $. Buying used boards that have vastly different specs is a great way to learn about both equipment and riding itself.


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## Nolefan2011 (Mar 12, 2011)

Fielding said:


> Nolefan2011 said:
> 
> 
> > Well no shit there are specifics about each specific board that make riding "easier". I own a Capita Spring break. Thing bobs like an apple and I was unable to sink it. Literally tried. That said, I don't need it. I am perfectly fine riding a BSOD in deep snow up to my quad.
> ...


Again, not the point. You made the comment that people that ride a Flight Attendant as a one bird quiver can’t ride. 

That’s such a terrible conclusion. Guch rides his pro model until he made a surfboard about a season ago. Rice is on his Goldmember and filmed art of flight mostly on a pro pointy model. Mueller on his deck, Jamie Lynn on basically a cambered deck with a slight setback.

Asked another way, what pro is riding with a pure pow deck, swallow tail and all?


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## Phedder (Sep 13, 2014)

Fielding said:


> Pow boards usually have the opposite of a tight sidecut. The sides are often close to flat/straight.


Plenty of people hard booting on the Dupraz.

As for Pow boards having a long sidecut;
Burton Fish, Panhandler, Skeleton Key, Skipjack, Flight Attendant, Dump Truck etc. 
Dupraz
Jones Mind Expander
Flow Darwin/Enigma
Rome Powder Division boards, ST, MT, PT. 
Ride Warpig, K2 Simple Pleasures or Party Platter, Yes 420 or Optimistic
Prior Fissle and Slasher
Many of the Moss or Gentems. 

Every single one of those boards, except maybe the Rome PT have sidecuts of 8.0m or lower. I'd also ride pow or carve all day on 90% of them, quite happily. If I actually put some time into digging deeper I'm sure I could double that list, as well.


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## Fielding (Feb 15, 2015)

Phedder said:


> Plenty of people hard booting on the Dupraz.
> 
> As for Pow boards having a long sidecut;
> Burton Fish, Panhandler, Skeleton Key, Skipjack, Flight Attendant, Dump Truck etc.
> ...


I think we’re using terms differently. Long sidecut radius is in my mind like 11 or 12 meters. 

I have a D1 + and I’ve ridden it in plates and soft. It’s not a carver by any stretch. Fun? Oui. A carver? No. It has a vsr that’s around 8 but...and this is a big but...the effective edge is tiny. The radius cuts about 18 inches from the tip. The board has a huge nose that can’t be used for carving. Classic pow shape. A very fun board in many respects. but hard to ride in chop or to carve on hardpack camber starts pretty far back. The nose is rockered.


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## Fielding (Feb 15, 2015)

Nolefan2011 said:


> Again, not the point. You made the comment that people that ride a Flight Attendant as a one bird quiver can’t ride.
> 
> That’s such a terrible conclusion. Guch rides his pro model until he made a surfboard about a season ago. Rice is on his Goldmember and filmed art of flight mostly on a pro pointy model. Mueller on his deck, Jamie Lynn on basically a cambered deck with a slight setback.
> 
> Asked another way, what pro is riding with a pure pow deck, swallow tail and all?


I didn’t make the comment you attribute to me. I don’t know what a flight attendant is. I also don’t know much about pro snowboarding. I’m more interested in boards and how they work.


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## Phedder (Sep 13, 2014)

Fielding said:


> Long sidecut radius is in my mind like 11 or 12 meters.


Agreed.



Fielding said:


> Pow boards usually have the opposite of a tight sidecut. The sides are often close to flat/straight.


So if pow boards, in your words, "usually have the opposite of a tight sidecut", meaning a long one, then why do all of those boards I listed have a sidecut of 8m or lower, and excel in powder.


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

Fielding said:


> Pow boards usually have the opposite of a tight sidecut. The sides are often close to flat/straight.
> 
> I can’t say I’ve heard of any carve bros putting plates on a fish. You mean for carving or for special pow? Most full on carvers I know seem to believe their carve setups suck in pow. Many reach for soft boots after it snows. Or they’ll put plates on a OSin 3800 or similar. Or maybe a 4wd. The problem with hardboots on a board not made for them is the boots overpowering the board. It’s not pleasant.


Nah. Lots of 'pure pow' boards with really tight sidecuts.

I guess the thing lies in what you call carving. If by carving you mean BX racing or that russian stuff then yeah..... THEY ride very specific boards. But most people don't refer to that when they talk about carving. So that's why there's lots of boards which are actually really good for both pow and carving. 

It's not even a Korua thing. Far from it. There's been lots of boards before Korua, during and after.



Nolefan2011 said:


> Asked another way, what pro is riding with a pure pow deck, swallow tail and all?


Terje on a Cheetah in standing sideways full part.
Jake Blauvelt on a Alter Ego for most of Naturally.
Bryan Fox in all of Depth Perception.
Austen Sweetin was on a 420 in some shots in After Forever.


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## Fielding (Feb 15, 2015)

Phedder said:


> Agreed.
> 
> 
> 
> So if pow boards, in your words, "usually have the opposite of a tight sidecut", meaning a long one, then why do all of those boards I listed have a sidecut of 8m or lower, and excel in powder.


The usual diff would be where that sidecut is located and how much effective edge there is relative to board length.


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## Nolefan2011 (Mar 12, 2011)

Fielding said:


> Nolefan2011 said:
> 
> 
> > Again, not the point. You made the comment that people that ride a Flight Attendant as a one bird quiver can’t ride.
> ...


It appears the implication was that non-exceptional riders ride 1 stick, and better riders find specific boards for specific purposes. To which I would 1000% disagree. I know many intermediate riders with quivers, and many advanced, and a couple experts, that ride their mid-soft twin everywhere, and do it with more style than most.

That might have been your own personal experience, but feel you are talking in extremes. IE like the comment above referring to hard boot carvers, or going to Japan to ride 4 ft deep snow.

Much like the waxing thread, where you imply the need for 4 coats of fluro if you are serious about riding, which outside of racing, is another ridiculous extreme statement


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## Fielding (Feb 15, 2015)

You missed my point. If I were to take two steps back and try to identify my overall point: most people on the mountain ride like shit and don’t know how to ride the one board they own. I assume they’re not on this board with any regularity. They’re the kinda bros who buy boards based on marketing material. And on what’s on deep discount. I’m not talking to them because I’m sure they aren’t listening. If you know how to ride a board and you are building a quiver then do not be confused. A pow board is a pow board. A carving board is a carving board. Any one board that claims to be both is a compromise. Some people should compromise. Some people who live in places that get a fair bit of pow might wanna give up Carve performance for a dual purpose board if it’s their one board or they need a compromise board. But it won’t carve like a carver or pow like a pow board. If you live in groomerland, iceville and you wanna carve, then you really should buy a camber board with a long effective edge. Skip the combination pow carve board. Best solution: buy 6 or 7 boards with very different specs. (Im not suggesting you do it all at once. Buy used. Ride each one at least a few times. Then sell the ones you don’t love. You actually don’t need a pair of bindings for every deck if you own a screwdriver and are willing to use it. Spend the money on boards. And travel.)


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## Fielding (Feb 15, 2015)

Nolefan2011 said:


> It appears the implication was that non-exceptional riders ride 1 stick, and better riders find specific boards for specific purposes. To which I would 1000% disagree. I know many intermediate riders with quivers, and many advanced, and a couple experts, that ride their mid-soft twin everywhere, and do it with more style than most.
> 
> That might have been your own personal experience, but feel you are talking in extremes. IE like the comment above referring to hard boot carvers, or going to Japan to ride 4 ft deep snow.
> 
> Much like the waxing thread, where you imply the need for 4 coats of fluro if you are serious about riding, which outside of racing, is another ridiculous extreme statement


Dude why you hatin? I described how to do top level base prep. I’m fairly certain I said that I was a strange person in that thread. A super fast base brings me great happiness. Plus I actually enjoy the process. You may have no use for it. But if somebody was wondering I think I gave some half-useful info. You should reread it. I never said 4 coats of fluoro. You only need one. Layer up waxes from warmest to coldest then cork in the overlay. Then brush. Wear a respirator. And a hazmat suit. Do it in a cleanroom. Never in the same cleanroom you file edges in.


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## Nolefan2011 (Mar 12, 2011)

Fielding said:


> You missed my point. If I were to take two steps back and try to identify my overall point: most people on the mountain ride like shit and don’t know how to ride the one board they own. I assume they’re not on this board with any regularity. They’re the kinda bros who buy boards based on marketing material. And on what’s on deep discount. I’m not talking to them because I’m sure they aren’t listening. If you know how to ride a board and you are building a quiver then do not be confused. A pow board is a pow board. A carving board is a carving board. Any one board that claims to be both is a compromise. Some people should compromise. Some people who live in places that get a fair bit of pow might wanna give up Carve performance for a dual purpose board if it’s their one board or they need a compromise board. But it won’t carve like a carver or pow like a pow board. If you live in groomerland, iceville and you wanna carve, then you really should buy a camber board with a long effective edge. Skip the combination pow carve board. Best solution: buy 6 or 7 boards with very different specs. (Im not suggesting you do it all at once. Buy used. Ride each one at least a few times. Then sell the ones you don’t love. You actually don’t need a pair of bindings for every deck if you own a screwdriver and are willing to use it. Spend the money on boards. And travel.)


I can get down with most of that. I still feel you can get both really well with a lot of decks, like an Optimistic, or BSOD, and so well that for the resort rider / slack country rider, which is still 90% of this board, will be completely fine. But see your point. A Custom X and a Spring Break compliment each other well.

I misunderstood the weaker rider comment. My bad.


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## Argo (Feb 25, 2010)

Lol, you guys sound like poeple that need more pow....

Few days ago. On a fullbag lifer, pow board

https://youtu.be/pAL9dwupN5o


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## SGboarder (Jun 24, 2012)

Fielding said:


> You missed my point. If I were to take two steps back and try to identify my overall point: most people on the mountain ride like shit and don’t know how to ride the one board they own. I assume they’re not on this board with any regularity. They’re the kinda bros who buy boards based on marketing material. And on what’s on deep discount. I’m not talking to them because I’m sure they aren’t listening. If you know how to ride a board and you are building a quiver then do not be confused. A pow board is a pow board. A carving board is a carving board. Any one board that claims to be both is a compromise. Some people should compromise. Some people who live in places that get a fair bit of pow might wanna give up Carve performance for a dual purpose board if it’s their one board or they need a compromise board. But it won’t carve like a carver or pow like a pow board. If you live in groomerland, iceville and you wanna carve, then you really should buy a camber board with a long effective edge. Skip the combination pow carve board. Best solution: buy 6 or 7 boards with very different specs. (Im not suggesting you do it all at once. Buy used. Ride each one at least a few times. Then sell the ones you don’t love. You actually don’t need a pair of bindings for every deck if you own a screwdriver and are willing to use it. Spend the money on boards. And travel.)


Still a strawman argument. Of course a board that is great in pow and great at carving will be a little bit of a compromise.
Hint 1: It is a compromise that works for the vast majority of riders. Just by pointing at somebody very extreme (and potentially imaginary) does not invalidate the fact that it is perfectly possible to have a board that is good enough at both carving and powder.
Hint 2: In fact every board is a compromise. Even your super duper specialized carving deck has a fixed sidecut radius etc Should people have multiple carving decks depending on whether they want to make large or small turns?
See what happens when you take your argument ad absurdum?


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## SGboarder (Jun 24, 2012)

Fielding said:


> Dude why you hatin? I described how to do top level base prep. I’m fairly certain I said that I was a strange person in that thread. A super fast base brings me great happiness. Plus I actually enjoy the process. You may have no use for it. But if somebody was wondering I think I gave some half-useful info. You should reread it. I never said 4 coats of fluoro. You only need one. Layer up waxes from warmest to coldest then cork in the overlay. Then brush. Wear a respirator. And a hazmat suit. Do it in a cleanroom. Never in the same cleanroom you file edges in.


No you did not describe 'top level base prep'. You described what you do - which is perfectly fine if it makes you happy, but it wont' make your base one iota faster. If it did, all serious racers (think world cup, olympics etc) would do this stuff. Hint: Most of them don't.
Again, do as you like but don't present your opinion as gospel and denigrate everybody else.


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## Fielding (Feb 15, 2015)

SGboarder said:


> it is perfectly possible to have a board that is good enough....


Is that what you're looking for? A good enough board? Then you might enjoy a combo pow carving/board and not be frustrated by it's limitations. You should get one and enjoy riding it on pow days and on hardpack days too. But why do you want to deny that there are carving boards that carve better and pow boards that ride pow better than some kind of a "good enough" compromise board? That's the part I don't get.

Maybe if I was somewhere far away from home and had to buy or rent a board in a pinch I might wonder what was a "good enough board". Thankfully that's not the case. I think that anyone who needs a first board or wants to change out their one board that they have learned is a bad fit: you're probably looking for a "good enough" board. Makes sense. Once you get one you might want to buy a second board that is more specialized for the kind of riding you are pursuing. 

Me? I am not interested in "good enough" boards. I'm looking for more purpose built stuff to add to my quiver. I thought that most people here were pretty much in the same spot I'm in and already had their "good enough" board category covered. Then again, some bros I know fall into the trap of essentially buying the same board over and over again, thereby building a large quiver of "good enough" boards that are pretty mediocre at handling a diverse range of conditions. I'm definitely trying to avoid doing that.


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## Fielding (Feb 15, 2015)

SGboarder said:


> No you did not describe 'top level base prep'. You described what you do - which is perfectly fine if it makes you happy, but it wont' make your base one iota faster. If it did, all serious racers (think world cup, olympics etc) would do this stuff. Hint: Most of them don't.
> Again, do as you like but don't present your opinion as gospel and denigrate everybody else.


Look bro, my base prep definitely makes my board faster in the conditions on which I ride: often wet snow, manmade snow, and some mixed up refrozen conditions. I have zero doubt. To be fair, base prep doesn't seem to do a damn thing for ice. I've spent literally hundreds of days on the snow on boards I have prep'ed differently and to varying degrees. There's a difference. Does the law of diminishing returns apply? Yes, definitely. Could I get 85% of the glide by spending just 50% of the time I often spend? Yes, probably. Are there some conditions in which base prep is more important than other conditions? Yes, definitely. Are you right when you say that most serious racers don't care about base prep? Nope. I can't imagine where you'd get an idea like that. Do you use that bald assertion to justify not doing any base prep? Just curious, do you have any other hobbies or interests that might call for careful use of tools, techniques, and close attention to detail? I'm thinking of things like gardening, or woodworking, fly fiishing, bikes, working on cars? There are many others, of course. Are you that guy who says that it's a total waste of time to change the oil every 1000 miles on classic Ducati? The gardener who doesn't believe in amending soils with compost in the spring before planting? Etc.? 

There's more to life than just "good enough." One day I hope you get the chance to ride a board that's really well suited to both the day's conditions and to what you want to do on the snow. And I hope that its base has been really well prep'ed for you by someone who follows the kind of techs that ski racers have developed over the last few decades.


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## SGboarder (Jun 24, 2012)

Fielding said:


> Look bro, my base prep definitely makes my board faster in the conditions on which I ride: often wet snow, manmade snow, and some mixed up refrozen conditions. I have zero doubt. To be fair, base prep doesn't seem to do a damn thing for ice. I've spent literally hundreds of days on the snow on boards I have prep'ed differently and to varying degrees. There's a difference. Does the law of diminishing returns apply? Yes, definitely. Could I get 85% of the glide by spending just 50% of the time I often spend? Yes, probably. Are there some conditions in which base prep is more important than other conditions? Yes, definitely. Are you right when you say that most serious racers don't care about base prep? Nope. I can't imagine where you'd get an idea like that. Do you use that bald assertion to justify not doing any base prep? Just curious, do you have any other hobbies or interests that might call for careful use of tools, techniques, and close attention to detail? I'm thinking of things like gardening, or woodworking, fly fiishing, bikes, working on cars? There are many others, of course. Are you that guy who says that it's a total waste of time to change the oil every 1000 miles on classic Ducati? The gardener who doesn't believe in amending soils with compost in the spring before planting? Etc.?
> 
> There's more to life than just "good enough." One day I hope you get the chance to ride a board that's really well suited to both the day's conditions and to what you want to do on the snow. And I hope that its base has been really well prep'ed for you by someone who follows the kind of techs that ski racers have developed over the last few decades.


1. Some of your particular base prep actually slows the board down rather than making it faster.
2. Having been involved for many years in professional downhill events I can categorically state that most top level guys/their techs's do nothing of this sort of stuff. Note that this is not 'having zero doubt' about an opinion (as in your case) but a factual observation.

Knock yourself out with your base prep if it makes you happy, but you're not in 'diminishing returns' territory but rather in 'detrimental to performance'.


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## SGboarder (Jun 24, 2012)

Fielding said:


> Is that what you're looking for? A good enough board? Then you might enjoy a combo pow carving/board and not be frustrated by it's limitations. You should get one and enjoy riding it on pow days and on hardpack days too. But why do you want to deny that there are carving boards that carve better and pow boards that ride pow better than some kind of a "good enough" compromise board? That's the part I don't get.
> 
> Maybe if I was somewhere far away from home and had to buy or rent a board in a pinch I might wonder what was a "good enough board". Thankfully that's not the case. I think that anyone who needs a first board or wants to change out their one board that they have learned is a bad fit: you're probably looking for a "good enough" board. Makes sense. Once you get one you might want to buy a second board that is more specialized for the kind of riding you are pursuing.
> 
> Me? I am not interested in "good enough" boards. I'm looking for more purpose built stuff to add to my quiver. I thought that most people here were pretty much in the same spot I'm in and already had their "good enough" board category covered. Then again, some bros I know fall into the trap of essentially buying the same board over and over again, thereby building a large quiver of "good enough" boards that are pretty mediocre at handling a diverse range of conditions. I'm definitely trying to avoid doing that.


Misquoting me is the only way that you can carry on your losing argument? I very clearly stated that I was talking about most/the vast majority of riders. 
I was equally clear that you're welcome to do something different if you want to. But that does not invalidate the point.


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## Fielding (Feb 15, 2015)

SGboarder said:


> 1. Some of your particular base prep actually slows the board down rather than making it faster.
> 2. Having been involved for many years in professional downhill events I can categorically state that most top level guys/their techs's do nothing of this sort of stuff. Note that this is not 'having zero doubt' about an opinion (as in your case) but a factual observation.
> 
> Knock yourself out with your base prep if it makes you happy, but you're not in 'diminishing returns' territory but rather in 'detrimental to performance'.


Rather than pursue ad hominem type posts, I’m sincerely asking you for your theory on base prep. I thought you were poopooing the whole practice. Sorry if I misunderstood. Tell me what you think works best or point to a post where you did so earlier. Also please share what kinda snow you prep for.

Added: what do you think about what these bros are doing? I had them do up a carving board for me last spring. I was impressed with the results. It seemed like a lot of race bros were picking up and dropping off the skis and a few boards. Did I got the wrong impression that this kind of service was sought after? Beneficial? 

https://m.jans.com/blog/nate-tomlin...up-tuning-clinic-with-alex-martin-video-recap


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## Fielding (Feb 15, 2015)

SGboarder said:


> Misquoting me is the only way that you can carry on your losing argument? I very clearly stated that I was talking about most/the vast majority of riders.
> I was equally clear that you're welcome to do something different if you want to. But that does not invalidate the point.


Be honest. It’s the smirk in my avatar that has you so hellbent on disagreeing with my every post, isn’t it? You should know that the image isn’t really me. It’s just a silly picture from an old SNL skit that I fully admit wasn’t that funny back in the 80s. In real life I’m an open minded bro who pursues a handful of hobbies with a lot of zeal. I do a lot of trial and error stuff. I like to build things and modify things. I’ll gladly give up pretty much any conclusion I’ve come to about boards, prep, or riding if persuaded with some evidence or even the right kind of passion. I’ve personally followed a bunch of dead ends. I’ve regrouped my thoughts many times. I’m never done considering things. But at this point I feel pretty strongly that i know the diff between a carve board and a pow board and the virtues of a well prepped base. But I’m still open. Tell me what you’ve got. I really will listen. Right now it seems like you’re being contrarian. Got race experience. Drop some knowledge. I’m listening. Tell me how I should do prep if I wanted to win a gold medal in wet snow. I’m not interested in what’s “good enough.” No shade-throw intended. I’m looking for some next level shit, whether it’s snowboards, beer,, ski wax, cars, bikes, surfboards, cheese, beekeeping, kitchen knives, smokers and grills, dirt bikes, men’s dress shoes, etc. Thats what I’m interested in lately, roughly in order of most interested to least interested.


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## Fielding (Feb 15, 2015)

SGboarder said:


> Still a strawman argument. Of course a board that is great in pow and great at carving will be a little bit of a compromise.
> Hint 1: It is a compromise that works for the vast majority of riders. Just by pointing at somebody very extreme (and potentially imaginary) does not invalidate the fact that it is perfectly possible to have a board that is good enough at both carving and powder.
> Hint 2: In fact every board is a compromise. Even your super duper specialized carving deck has a fixed sidecut radius etc Should people have multiple carving decks depending on whether they want to make large or small turns?
> See what happens when you take your argument ad absurdum?


I have multiple carving decks both softboot and hardboot with different radii (maybe 4 or 5 total) and I consider what board (with what radius) to take out based on what mountain I’ll be riding and how wide the runs are. I also factor in how crowded it will be. I like a more nimble board for crowds. Absurd to think about this stuff? I believe that it is at least a little absurd. Fun? Definitely. Today I’m riding an empty hill with a big ass soft boot carving board with an avg sidecut at around 11m. Edges are sharp as hell. And it’s damp damp damp. It was prepped for yesterday but the base got smoked in the slush. I had to do some actual work so I couldnt shine it up. Bummer. Even though trails here are narrow I can arc some smaller turns by bending the shit out of the board. It’s broken snow with some bumps and some ice in the shade. I came with one board only and I’m stoked because I feel like I chose the right one from my pile. I’m carrying a tool and playing with binding angles looking for the right balance between scooping snow with my boots on highly angulated turns and keeping the kind of responsiveness you get when your toes and heels sit right at the edges. This I what I Like to do.


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## Argo (Feb 25, 2010)

Dang, you guys are still jerkin each other off? Lol


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## SGboarder (Jun 24, 2012)

Fielding said:


> Rather than pursue ad hominem type posts, I’m sincerely asking you for your theory on base prep. I thought you were poopooing the whole practice. Sorry if I misunderstood. Tell me what you think works best or point to a post where you did so earlier. Also please share what kinda snow you prep for.
> 
> Added: what do you think about what these bros are doing? I had them do up a carving board for me last spring. I was impressed with the results. It seemed like a lot of race bros were picking up and dropping off the skis and a few boards. Did I got the wrong impression that this kind of service was sought after? Beneficial?
> 
> https://m.jans.com/blog/nate-tomlin...up-tuning-clinic-with-alex-martin-video-recap


Fail - There was no ad hominem in my post. 



Fielding said:


> Be honest. It’s the smirk in my avatar that has you so hellbent on disagreeing with my every post, isn’t it? You should know that the image isn’t really me. It’s just a silly picture from an old SNL skit that I fully admit wasn’t that funny back in the 80s. In real life I’m an open minded bro who pursues a handful of hobbies with a lot of zeal. I do a lot of trial and error stuff. I like to build things and modify things. I’ll gladly give up pretty much any conclusion I’ve come to about boards, prep, or riding if persuaded with some evidence or even the right kind of passion. I’ve personally followed a bunch of dead ends. I’ve regrouped my thoughts many times. I’m never done considering things. But at this point I feel pretty strongly that i know the diff between a carve board and a pow board and the virtues of a well prepped base. But I’m still open. Tell me what you’ve got. I really will listen. Right now it seems like you’re being contrarian. Got race experience. Drop some knowledge. I’m listening. Tell me how I should do prep if I wanted to win a gold medal in wet snow. I’m not interested in what’s “good enough.” No shade-throw intended. I’m looking for some next level shit, whether it’s snowboards, beer,, ski wax, cars, bikes, surfboards, cheese, beekeeping, kitchen knives, smokers and grills, dirt bikes, men’s dress shoes, etc. Thats what I’m interested in lately, roughly in order of most interested to least interested.


So many words, so little to say. Not gonna engage unless you actually have a point.



Fielding said:


> I have multiple carving decks both softboot and hardboot with different radii (maybe 4 or 5 total) and I consider what board (with what radius) to take out based on what mountain I’ll be riding and how wide the runs are. I also factor in how crowded it will be. I like a more nimble board for crowds. Absurd to think about this stuff? I believe that it is at least a little absurd. Fun? Definitely. Today I’m riding an empty hill with a big ass soft boot carving board with an avg sidecut at around 11m. Edges are sharp as hell. And it’s damp damp damp. It was prepped for yesterday but the base got smoked in the slush. I had to do some actual work so I couldnt shine it up. Bummer. Even though trails here are narrow I can arc some smaller turns by bending the shit out of the board. It’s broken snow with some bumps and some ice in the shade. I came with one board only and I’m stoked because I feel like I chose the right one from my pile. I’m carrying a tool and playing with binding angles looking for the right balance between scooping snow with my boots on highly angulated turns and keeping the kind of responsiveness you get when your toes and heels sit right at the edges. This I what I Like to do.


May be this is true, may be not - hell, it is the internet. Assuming yes (benefit of doubt and all): good for you if it makes you happy. But unlikely to be relevant (let alone applicable) to anybody but a tiny minority of people.


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## SGboarder (Jun 24, 2012)

Argo said:


> Dang, you guys are still jerkin each other off? Lol


Nah, the troll has run out of interesting things to say.


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## Fielding (Feb 15, 2015)

SGboarder said:


> Nah, the troll has run out of interesting things to say.


So you're not going to tell me how we really should be waxing? I mean it when I say that I would seriously listen to your tech. I'm here. Tell me and everybody else the inside tech that all the world cup ski bros are using. I'm genuinely curious to hear what you know. I'm ready to believe that you know something that I don't. But if you're gonna make all that noise about how I'm wrong and then have nothing to say when I ask you what's right then what's left for me to think? You think I'm a troll? Look at my post count. Look at the length of my posts. I'm here saying what I think I've figured out. I'm not just trying to say somebody is wrong. So now's your turn to share. Otherwise just go away because you're not adding to the dialectic...you're taking away from it.


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## Mig Fullbag (Apr 15, 2014)

Fielding said:


> It’s just a silly picture from an old SNL skit that I fully admit wasn’t that funny back in the 80s.


Seriously?!? Schprockets was absolutely hilarious!!! And still is everytime I stumble on one of the skits.


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## Fielding (Feb 15, 2015)

SGBoarder:

I said I have a handful of carve-focused boards and that I try to pick one (or maybe sometimes two) depending on what conditions (trail width, snow, crowds, etc.) I'll likely encounter. You followed with



SGboarder said:


> May be this is true, may be not - hell, it is the internet. Assuming yes (benefit of doubt and all): good for you if it makes you happy. But unlikely to be relevant (let alone applicable) to anybody but a tiny minority of people.


You realize that we are posting on on "Snowboarding Forum - Snowboard Enthusiast Forums > Snowboarding Equipment > Boards ..." --right? So when I talk about boards and how they compare and how I decide what to ride on a particular day I'm talking about Snowboarding. I'm being an Enthusiast. I'm talking about Equipment. In particular I'm talking about Boards. 

I'm inviting you to join the discussion in a meaningful way. You seem to have some passion for the subject but I'm not really clear on what it is that you think is best. Do you own more than one board? If yes then how do you decide which one to ride on any given day? 

Also: I'm still very interested to hear what you know about waxing based on your time in and among the downhill race community. I'm genuinely interested to hear what you've got to share. You didn't comment on the Rennstall video I posted. Have you ever seen Willi Wiltz's videos for Toko? Is his tech sound in your eyes?


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## pomeranian (Mar 25, 2018)

Fielding said:


> Carving boards carve. Powder boards powder. No one board does both things very well. You wanna do both things? Do yourself a favor and get two boards. The Korua videos seem to feature bros “carving” in super soft conditions. For real: I like the big turn focused marketing. The shapes are unique. The color scheme and overall styling is very cool. (Do they have to pay Apple licensing for doing the all white thing? Does every Korua come with a pair of earbuds?) I pawed some of their boards in a shop recently and was underwhelmed with the apparent build quality/fit and finish. What factory is making them? Anybody know? Seemed like the boards had lots more style than substance. At least they don’t try to sell boards using some dumb serrated edge “grip” technology.



Vy do you make zo many rules?? ya damn fascist!

it's all relative. don't you get it? the width for powder float allows the rider the freedom to lean over in all kinds of snow without booting out, effectively...i dunno...carving!? so they can carve relatively well. better, than narrower and softer options.

Essentially, no one else cares about boxing-in different board styles under strict guidelines. just you.


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## Fielding (Feb 15, 2015)

pomeranian said:


> Vy do you make zo many rules?? ya damn fascist!
> 
> it's all relative. don't you get it? the width for powder float allows the rider the freedom to lean over in all kinds of snow without booting out, effectively...i dunno...carving!? so they can carve relatively well. better, than narrower and softer options.
> 
> Essentially, no one else cares about boxing-in different board styles under strict guidelines. just you.


Is that why we post? Or why we read posts? Because we don’t care? Is pointing at the conflicting nature of the characteristics that make pow boards work well and the ones that make carving boards work well just me imposing “strict guidelines” as you say? I humbly submit that NO is the answer to all of the above.

You mentioned that having a wider board would be a benefit to both carving and pow riding. I’d like to address that. Width and having a big floaty nose helps a lot in pow. I went out in one and only one local pow day. It was pouring snow while I rode. I was on a carving board. A long, skinny, stiff carving board. I didn’t know that there was snow in the forecast and I ended up having the wrong board with me for the occasion of about a foot of fresh. Rather than miss the event, I moved my bindings back as far as they’d go and I made it work. But it was definitely less than ideal. I don’t think I’m being controversial when I say that extra board width and a lot of volume in front of the front binding is a big asset in powder. But for carving? 

Extra board width might help prevent toe/heel drag when you’re soft boot carving in duck stance. But that’s pretty much it. Beyond that, any extra board width and overall volume increase is a drawback. Anyone who’s willing to adjust their stance in order to optimize it for carving doesn’t want a lot of extra board width on a carving board. If you really really want to carve and you’re willing/able to ride forward angles then the ideal soft boot carving board is pretty skinny. I’m talking about a board that has a waist in the 23cm range. (This assumes the rider is willing to have the front binding approach 30 degrees or thereabouts. Most stiff soft boots can be safely ridden up to about that point.) The virtues of a skinny board include easier turn initiation and faster rail to rail transitions. It’s just all around a more nimble board than a wider board is.

While powder boards and carving boards both benefit from having big front ends, they really benefit from having distinctly different big front ends. The pow board needs a softer nose. That nose is a flotation aid. A bit of rocker up there might be a good thing. The carving board benefits from having a much stiffer nose that participates in the board’s overall camber profile.


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## 16gkid (Dec 5, 2012)

Jesus effing christ


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

pomeranian said:


> Vy do you make zo many rules?? ya damn fascist!
> 
> it's all relative. don't you get it? the width for powder float allows the rider the freedom to lean over in all kinds of snow without booting out, effectively...i dunno...carving!? so they can carve relatively well. better, than narrower and softer options.
> 
> Essentially, no one else cares about boxing-in different board styles under strict guidelines. just you.


But... why couldn't you use your regular account to post this?


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## Osman31ci (Jan 16, 2018)

SGBoarder is a known hater. I would not even bother responding to him.


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## Snowdaddy (Feb 2, 2018)

Fred Keller said:


> Well,
> 
> I couldn't resist and pulled the trigger - got the pencil plus. First impression: It is insanely light. Although it has a similar size as the flagship, the flagship feels bulky and heavy weight. The top sheet looks beautiful. The camber is more aggressive compared to the flagship. The waist width of both boards is exactly the same with 26,9 cm. The nose of the flagship is of course wider as you can see on the attached photo.
> 
> ...


I'm curious how you like the Pencil, was it all you ever dreamt it would be? Any other Korua riders here?


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## Jkb818 (Sep 28, 2019)

Wow this thread unraveled quickly into some crazy argument about the need for a pow board. 🤣


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## smellysell (Oct 29, 2018)

Jkb818 said:


> Wow this thread unraveled quickly into some crazy argument about the need for a pow board.


Haven't read it all, but I just don't understand how you can argue against having a pow board?

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


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## Snowdaddy (Feb 2, 2018)

smellysell said:


> Haven't read it all, but I just don't understand how you can argue against having a pow board?
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


Because............... you may have to BUY ANOTHER POW BOARD!


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## Jkb818 (Sep 28, 2019)

My whole quiver is basically just variations of pow boards 😂

Burton skeleton key Jones hovercraft Jones storm chaser and Endeavor archetype...


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## 16gkid (Dec 5, 2012)

This thread is a perfect reminder that even Cunts know how to snowboard, fucking A 💩


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## 16gkid (Dec 5, 2012)

Fielding said:


> Carving boards carve. Powder boards powder


What year is this guy living in?  💩


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## MrDavey2Shoes (Mar 5, 2018)

I feel like 90% of the active threads right now are Zombie threads...wtf is going on lately?


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## Snowdaddy (Feb 2, 2018)

People (like me) are bored waiting for snow.


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## 16gkid (Dec 5, 2012)

Snowdaddy said:


> People (like me) are bored waiting for snow.


Get into skating/eskate, no more off-season


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## Snowdaddy (Feb 2, 2018)

I ride my YOW surf skate but it's getting into autumn...


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## Jkb818 (Sep 28, 2019)

I bike


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## 16gkid (Dec 5, 2012)

I actually can't wait till it gets to fall and everyone goes inside, gonna have all the bike trails to myself!


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## MrDavey2Shoes (Mar 5, 2018)

I’ve been avoiding trails too. Suddenly single track is family stroll central. Off road baby carriages all over the fucking place!


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## Donutz (May 12, 2010)

MrDavey2Shoes said:


> I feel like 90% of the active threads right now are Zombie threads...wtf is going on lately?


Two things cause zombie revivals:

1. New members whose 'latest posts' is empty because they haven't been here long enough, so they go through the forum listings and don't notice the date on the last post. (maybe 1/3)
2. Spammers who post some empty reply ("Me too. I really like them!") to an interesting looking thread, with the idea that they'll go back in a day or three and edit their post to include a spam link. I quite enjoy waiting until they make their move and them banning them before anyone can even see it. (that's maybe 2/3)


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## Craig64 (Jul 16, 2015)

Donutz said:


> Two things cause zombie revivals:
> 
> 1. New members whose 'latest posts' is empty because they haven't been here long enough, so they go through the forum listings and don't notice the date on the last post. (maybe 1/3)
> 2. Spammers who post some empty reply ("Me too. I really like them!") to an interesting looking thread, with the idea that they'll go back in a day or three and edit their post to include a spam link. I quite enjoy waiting until they make their move and them banning them before anyone can even see it. (that's maybe 2/3)


I see a fair bit of these 1st time fly in fly out posters asking for SBF advice about a board/gear etc but they seem pretty articulate with their terminology. Is this legit or are they trying some kind of scam here. 

We live in a World full of corruption???


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## Rip154 (Sep 23, 2017)

Actually, when you post a reply, you get automatic suggestions of similar threads (Recommended reading) that are 10 years old. That could be a source of necromancy.


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