# 2015 Burton Cartel - Review



## frankz

Great review and glad you like them. 

I am thinking of getting them for my Rossi Mag XV, just have to figure out if I go with their size recommendations of medium for a 10.5 boot. Seems odd, since all my other bindings are large.


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## tomcat4000

Nice review. I wanted to get these in a '14 variant, but they seem to rarely go on discount.. meh. I never buy current year model, when the most significant change is in colorways.


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## Ravaging Rami

Nice Review! I really like my cartels also. I did notice a difference with the re:flex disc and my board, I like the reduced dead spot. I think your description of the ratchets/straps is spot on. My friend uses Ride Capos and envys the toe-cap and ratchets on my cartels everytime I beat him strapping in. They are definitely a solid all-around binding!


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## BoardChitless

Sweetness.. Looking forward to equipping my '15 PYL from Mission's to Cartel's sooner than later. Awesome detailed review on those precious Cartel's!

I'll try to post something similar at the end of this season about my new digs.

Appreciate the heads on the 15's PlanB


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## PlanB

frankz said:


> Great review and glad you like them.
> 
> I am thinking of getting them for my Rossi Mag XV, just have to figure out if I go with their size recommendations of medium for a 10.5 boot. Seems odd, since all my other bindings are large.


frankz, it is my understanding that Burton bindings have some degree of overlap in their sizing. That is to say if you are an in-between size (not exactly medium or large either) you could go either way. I've always been told by other riders and shop people that if you are in-between, you should get the medium because it will fit more snug and be more responsive. Good luck with your set-up, I think the Cartel would pair well with the XV.


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## F1EA

frankz said:


> Great review and glad you like them.
> 
> I am thinking of getting them for my Rossi Mag XV, just have to figure out if I go with their size recommendations of medium for a 10.5 boot. Seems odd, since all my other bindings are large.


That's because Burton bindings run "large".

If you wear US 10.5 on any reasonably new (footprint reduced) boot, get M.


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## B.House

Great review.

I'm SO HAPPY you mentioned the new "Flex-Slider" feature (I didn't know that was what it was called), because I noticed it on my first two times out with the 2015 Cartels, and was wondering what the hell was going on with the strap.

I 100% agree with you on the dislike of this feature... Very annoying when getting off the lift. Other than that great bindings. Comfortable, responsive, well-made. 

For the person asking about sizing, I wear size 10 Ride Hy-Phy boots and the Medium Cartels fit great. I know you wear 10.5, but I think there is enough space for adjustment that you don't have to go up to the Large if you don't want to.


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## ekb18c

With the flex slider, i just position it so that it sits on top of binding and then fold the highback down before getting on the chair.

This way the ankle strap will not come out and cause you to step on it.

edit: besides it's a pretty good practice to fold down the highback so that it won't get caught and break on some chairs.


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## B.House

ekb18c said:


> With the flex slider, i just position it so that it sits on top of binding and then fold the highback down before getting on the chair.
> 
> This way the ankle strap will not come out and cause you to step on it.
> 
> edit: besides it's a pretty good practice to fold down the highback so that it won't get caught and break on some chairs.


Yeah, I mean there are definitely ways to get around it... it's not a deal-breaker on a great set of tried-and-true bindings. It just kind of defeats the purpose to have to take an extra step before getting on the lift when the whole point of the feature is to save you time.


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## Nivek

The point of the Flex Slider is not to save time. That's how they advertise it because advertising the real reason is counter productive to a bunch of their other and previous product. The reason they stretched it and created a designated crease point, was to stop them breaking. It's one of the most replaced pieces in snowboarding. So, force a bend point that is DESIGNED to bend so you don't snap it by bending it over and over and over again moving it out of the way to get into the binding. The bonus was that when you're actually ready to step into the binding, the strap flops out of the way all nice and it's easier to get in and you don't snap the slider stepping on the strap.


Anywho, great binding. I have Stay Calms and LTD's. Love em.


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## StAntonRider

Nivek said:


> The point of the Flex Slider is not to save time. That's how they advertise it because advertising the real reason is counter productive to a bunch of their other and previous product. The reason they stretched it and created a designated crease point, was to stop them breaking. It's one of the most replaced pieces in snowboarding. So, force a bend point that is DESIGNED to bend so you don't snap it by bending it over and over and over again moving it out of the way to get into the binding. The bonus was that when you're actually ready to step into the binding, the strap flops out of the way all nice and it's easier to get in and you don't snap the slider stepping on the strap.
> 
> 
> Anywho, great binding. I have Stay Calms and LTD's. Love em.



What are the stay calms? I only see a few shops sellin em.


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## Nivek

Cartel with a hammock back. And the EST isn't the hinge frame, which lucky for me, I don't actually like.


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## StAntonRider

Nivek said:


> Cartel with a hammock back. And the EST isn't the hinge frame, which lucky for me, I don't actually like.


Cool. You like the hammock back? it seems like you loose responsiveness, but haven't tried it.


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## Nivek

You lose nothing and gain a bit of compliance and comfort.


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## StAntonRider

Nivek said:


> You lose nothing and gain a bit of compliance and comfort.


I'm sold. Where do I sign.


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## PlanB

ekb18c said:


> With the flex slider, i just position it so that it sits on top of binding and then fold the highback down before getting on the chair.
> 
> This way the ankle strap will not come out and cause you to step on it.
> 
> edit: besides it's a pretty good practice to fold down the highback so that it won't get caught and break on some chairs.


This is pretty much exactly what I've been doing. 

Before I load the chair, I put both straps in the closed position (without doing up the ratchet) and fold the hi-back down over them. It takes literally only a few seconds and that way they're not flailing around while I'm getting on/off the chair and my hi-back is protected also (I've seen two of my riding buddies have their hi-backs damaged by low-swinging chairs).


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## Ravaging Rami

I always make sure that the strap is tucked in before boarding the lift just to ensure I don't step on it. I also fold highback down since the lifts near me come really low to the ground and the planners like to swing their skis around while riding next to me, seemingly like they have no idea that they keep whacking by board and bindings.


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## frankz

I'm picking up the Cartels for my Rossi XV. 

Just had a chance to try it recently and its a great board. I went from riding Salomon Cyphers on my Nitro board, to my 14 year old Ride EX's, which I put on the XV. Not matter how hard I strapped down, my boot was moving. 

Upgrade time.


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## chomps1211

Uhh,..? The "living hinge" baseplate disc? Is that the same "Reflex" mounting discs? I purchased a pair of M 2013/14 Reflex Cartels and I discovered it can be very hard (…or even impossible.) to get some boot/binding combinations centered properly on some boards! (…I have 2 other pairs of _pre_ reflex Cartels in M & L) 

I bought the new Cartel's specifically to use on my older Arbor, but no matter what I did,..? I couldn't adjust them enough with those reflex discs to center my boots. Not even close enough! Same with my Proto CT!

As it was,.. I wound up using those "new" and _expensive_ bindings on the least expensive board I owned! :shrug: :laugh:

Any word on whether or not that issue has been addressed? Iir, there were more than a few others here who had the same difficulty with centering those reflex discs!


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## PlanB

chomps1211 said:


> Uhh,..? The "living hinge" baseplate disc? Is that the same "Reflex" mounting discs? I purchased a pair of M 2013/14 Reflex Cartels and I discovered it can be very hard (…or even impossible.) to get some boot/binding combinations centered properly on some boards! (…I have 2 other pairs of _pre_ reflex Cartels in M & L)
> 
> I bought the new Cartel's specifically to use on my older Arbor, but no matter what I did,..? I couldn't adjust them enough with those reflex discs to center my boots. Not even close enough! Same with my Proto CT!
> 
> As it was,.. I wound up using those "new" and _expensive_ bindings on the least expensive board I owned! :shrug: :laugh:
> 
> Any word on whether or not that issue has been addressed? Iir, there were more than a few others here who had the same difficulty with centering those reflex discs!


Sorry you've encountered problems chomps, that is a real pain I imagine - investing in these bindings and then having issues mounting them. 

I can only say I've had no problems myself. Just for kicks I tried mounting them on my other boards after I got them (I got them before I actually received my PYL so I had nothing better to do with no snow around. 

They mounted perfectly with my older two Burton 3-D boards as well as my Sims and my K2 Turbo Dream. And of course they're a great fit with my PYL which they are on permanently now.


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## chomps1211

I don't expect you to go to the trouble of un-mounting the bindings, but I'm curious,..! If you get a chance, could you maybe post a pic of the mounting discs that came with your new Cartels? (…a pic of the disc while mounted would probably be enough to judge!)

I remember there were a couple of threads with people commenting on this problem and I wasn't the only one experiencing this. I can't say exactly how widespread it may have been, but maybe Burton did change something in the newer reflex discs in response to that issue? :shrug:


(…we _are_ talking about the 4 hole mounts and *not* the channel system, right?) :blink:


:hairy:


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## ML16

Sorry for the highjack...

Does anybody ride L cartels with size 11/11.5 ThirtyTwo or Burton boots? I have L cartels for some size 12 Vans, but getting new boots soon and i think i'll be getting an 11/11.5 in the ThirtyTwo or Burton. Just wondering if anyone else has a similar setup already?


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## flipstah

Nivek said:


> The point of the Flex Slider is not to save time. That's how they advertise it because advertising the real reason is counter productive to a bunch of their other and previous product. The reason they stretched it and created a designated crease point, was to stop them breaking. It's one of the most replaced pieces in snowboarding. So, force a bend point that is DESIGNED to bend so you don't snap it by bending it over and over and over again moving it out of the way to get into the binding. The bonus was that when you're actually ready to step into the binding, the strap flops out of the way all nice and it's easier to get in and you don't snap the slider stepping on the strap.
> 
> 
> Anywho, great binding. I have Stay Calms and LTD's. Love em.



I also have the Cartel and I was trying to figure out how the FlexSlider technology saves time. Your explanation makes more sense than the time-saver part. 

Anyways, love the review and I dig this wood colorway!


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## PlanB

chomps1211 said:


> I don't expect you to go to the trouble of un-mounting the bindings, but I'm curious,..! *If you get a chance, could you maybe post a pic of the mounting discs that came with your new Cartels?* (…a pic of the disc while mounted would probably be enough to judge!)
> 
> I remember there were a couple of threads with people commenting on this problem and I wasn't the only one experiencing this. I can't say exactly how widespread it may have been, but maybe Burton did change something in the newer reflex discs in response to that issue? :shrug:
> 
> 
> (…we _are_ talking about the 4 hole mounts and *not* the channel system, right?) :blink:
> 
> 
> :hairy:


I'm out of town right now for work, but when I get home (probably Sunday) I'll post the disc set-up I'm using right now.


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## PlanB

PHP:







chomps1211 said:


> I don't expect you to go to the trouble of un-mounting the bindings, but I'm curious,..! If you get a chance, could you maybe post a pic of the mounting discs that came with your new Cartels? (…a pic of the disc while mounted would probably be enough to judge!)
> 
> I remember there were a couple of threads with people commenting on this problem and I wasn't the only one experiencing this. I can't say exactly how widespread it may have been, but maybe Burton did change something in the newer reflex discs in response to that issue? :shrug:
> 
> 
> (…we _are_ talking about the 4 hole mounts and *not* the channel system, right?) :blink:
> 
> 
> :hairy:


This what you were interested in seeing chomps?

edit: tried to get one shot of the disc exposed & one showing how it's perfectly centered. Let me know if you want another angle, now I know how to attach the photos it's no problem.


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## chomps1211

That first image is what I wanted. _Thanks!_ 

Honestly tho,..? They look like they may have even less fore/aft adjustability than my older reflex discs. :eyetwitch2: I'll have to double check that!


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## Ravaging Rami

Those are the same disks from 13/14 and 14/15. They have three adjustment holes. Huge PITA to center. I had to switch my large blood oranges from 2014 (really liked that color too) for 14/15 mediums just to center my ions.


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## PlanB

Ravaging Rami said:


> Those are the same disks from 13/14 and 14/15. They have three adjustment holes.* Huge PITA to center.* I had to switch my large blood oranges from 2014 (really liked that color too) for 14/15 mediums just to center my ions.


I had a different experience actually. It was super easy to get these bindings set-up; in fact, one of the reasons I went with the Cartel is that, as I mentioned in my initial review, you can adjust it so many different ways it can literally be set-up custom for your foot-size/stance preference.

I know we're talking specifically about centering and I found it simple. Not sure exactly what would make it difficult, but am curious?


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## snowklinger

because the baseplate including heel hoop is unibody, the options for centering boots is limited to the holes on the disc.

this creates a known issue of centering boots of a certain size - I believe 11's were tough. basically between sizes. you would have to sacrifice a marginal overhang one way. I recall Dreampow exploring this issue.

my 9s and 10s love Medium


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## chomps1211

PlanB said:


> I had a different experience actually...
> 
> ….I know we're talking specifically about centering and I found it simple. Not sure exactly what would make it difficult, but am curious?


The reflex discs have fewer holes for positioning them, only 3 in the new mounting discs as opposed to the traditional 4. They are also placed much closer together than they were in the older solid discs. Resulting in even less available fore/aft movement when mounting them. I believe this was necessary due to the removal of material that allows the new mounting discs to flex.

As a result, on some boot/board combinations, they are difficult to center properly and wind up being either too toe, or heel heavy. I have 3 decks. I had far too much heel overhang on two of the boards I mounted them to! However, on my Rome? They centered up just fine. :shrug:

And since they are a one piece unit, there is no way to adjust the heel cup separately from the base to compensate for this.


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## PlanB

snowklinger said:


> because the baseplate including heel hoop is unibody, the options for centering boots is limited to the holes on the disc.
> 
> this creates a known issue of centering boots of a certain size - I believe 11's were tough. basically between sizes. you would have to sacrifice a marginal overhang one way. I recall Dreampow exploring this issue.
> 
> my 9s and 10s love Medium





chomps1211 said:


> The reflex discs have fewer holes for positioning them, only 3 in the new mounting discs as opposed to the traditional 4. They are also placed much closer together than they were in the older solid discs. Resulting in even less available fore/aft movement when mounting them. I believe this was necessary due to the removal of material that allows the new mounting discs to flex.
> 
> As a result, on some boot/board combinations, they are difficult to center properly and wind up being either too toe, or heel heavy. I have 3 decks. I had far too much heel overhang on two of the boards I mounted them to! However, on my Rome? They centered up just fine. :shrug:
> 
> And since they are a one piece unit, there is no way to adjust the heel cup separately from the base to compensate for this.


These explanations both make a lot of sense. I guess I have always been lucky being a size 9 boot - I fit a medium binding perfectly. 

Wonder if this is the reason why Burton developed shrinkage footprint reduction technology?


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## Nivek

Shrinkage came along way before Reflex. And Reflex more or less originated with Forum as Good Vibes.


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## scotty100

Nivek said:


> The point of the Flex Slider is not to save time. That's how they advertise it because advertising the real reason is counter productive to a bunch of their other and previous product. The reason they stretched it and created a designated crease point, was to stop them breaking. It's one of the most replaced pieces in snowboarding. So, force a bend point that is DESIGNED to bend so you don't snap it by bending it over and over and over again moving it out of the way to get into the binding. The bonus was that when you're actually ready to step into the binding, the strap flops out of the way all nice and it's easier to get in and you don't snap the slider stepping on the strap.
> 
> 
> Anywho, great binding. I have Stay Calms and LTD's. Love em.


Is this the same tech that K2 have had for years? I thought they had the patent rights on it or something. Perhaps it expired. Great idea I think. I love it on the Formulas I have.


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## scotty100

chomps1211 said:


> The reflex discs have fewer holes for positioning them, only 3 in the new mounting discs as opposed to the traditional 4. They are also placed much closer together than they were in the older solid discs. Resulting in even less available fore/aft movement when mounting them. I believe this was necessary due to the removal of material that allows the new mounting discs to flex.
> 
> As a result, on some boot/board combinations, they are difficult to center properly and wind up being either too toe, or heel heavy. I have 3 decks. I had far too much heel overhang on two of the boards I mounted them to! However, on my Rome? They centered up just fine. :shrug:
> 
> And since they are a one piece unit, there is no way to adjust the heel cup separately from the base to compensate for this.


Yup - it's a roll of the dice if you have a boot bigger than a 10. If you're lucky the width of the board and size of boot will work together...but no guarantee. I was told Burton has other disks you can get from them if it's a problem. Their customer service is awesome.


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## ItchEtrigR

before EST + ICS I dont think i've ever had my bindings perfectly centered, to tell you the truth its not a difference I notice now that I can perfectly center them.


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## ALshooter

ML16 said:


> Sorry for the highjack...
> 
> Does anybody ride L cartels with size 11/11.5 ThirtyTwo or Burton boots? I have L cartels for some size 12 Vans, but getting new boots soon and i think i'll be getting an 11/11.5 in the ThirtyTwo or Burton. Just wondering if anyone else has a similar setup already?


I have Thirty Two Focus in 10.5. They would not center with the M Cartels. I had to send them back and get L Cartels. My boots fit this binding without any play side to side. I can't say for sure but I would imagine a Burton boot in that size would fit the M or L as mentioned above (overlap). Go to a shop and put whatever model boot you get into each size and pick the one with the best fit.


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## Ravaging Rami

PlanB said:


> These explanations both make a lot of sense. I guess I have always been lucky being a size 9 boot - I fit a medium binding perfectly.
> 
> Wonder if this is the reason why Burton developed shrinkage footprint reduction technology?


Snowklinger and Chomps already explained everything, but just to clarify. I'm a size 10. I made the mistake of going with larges, which were very difficult to center boot in. Once I switched to mediums, it definitely made a difference in feel, but it was much easier to center. It's not perfect, but as ItchEtrigR said, perfectly centered boots wouldn't make that noticeable of a difference.


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## theprocess

ekb18c said:


> With the flex slider, i just position it so that it sits on top of binding and then fold the highback down before getting on the chair.
> 
> This way the ankle strap will not come out and cause you to step on it.
> 
> edit: besides it's a pretty good practice to fold down the highback so that it won't get caught and break on some chairs.


Excellent advise. A floppy ankle strap will get annoying really fast. How about limiting the flop with a system like Rome's autostrap? Maybe Burton will improve on the next iteration.


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## ML16

ALshooter said:


> I have Thirty Two Focus in 10.5. They would not center with the M Cartels. I had to send them back and get L Cartels. My boots fit this binding without any play side to side. I can't say for sure but I would imagine a Burton boot in that size would fit the M or L as mentioned above (overlap). Go to a shop and put whatever model boot you get into each size and pick the one with the best fit.


I ended up with size 11 ThirtyTwo Lashed. They seem to centre pretty well with the L cartels (EST). Better than my old Vans anyway.

Cheers


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## chomps1211

ML16 said:


> I ended up with size 11 ThirtyTwo Lashed. They seem to centre pretty well with the L cartels (EST). Better than my old Vans anyway.
> 
> Cheers


Of course they did! :facepalm1: EST has damn near unlimited adjustment for stance width, angle & centering. That is an entirely _different_ mounting/adjustment system than the one we're describing here!

We're talking strictly about the 4 hole mounting on non Burton, non EST boards.


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## ML16

chomps1211 said:


> Of course they did! :facepalm1: EST has damn near unlimited adjustment for stance width, angle & centering. That is an entirely _different_ mounting/adjustment system than the one we're describing here!
> 
> We're talking strictly about the 4 hole mounting on non Burton, non EST boards.


Not quite. My bindings are maxxed out to get them centred (as in i can't move them any further towards my toe edge.

But yes, i know about the issues with the re:flex bindings not being centered. I was just mentioning mine anyway.


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## frankz

I just picked up the medium Cartel re:flex for my 10.5 size Ride boots. Boots fit into the binding just fine, which surprised me. 

I did notice with the 4x4 discs that I can't set them horizontally, only vertically, meaning the holes only go up and down and not right and left like many others. There is an area where the teeth from the baseplate do not grab anything if that makes sense.


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## snowklinger

frankz said:


> I just picked up the medium Cartel re:flex for my 10.5 size Ride boots. Boots fit into the binding just fine, which surprised me.
> 
> I did notice with the 4x4 discs that I can't set them horizontally, only vertically, meaning the holes only go up and down and not right and left like many others. There is an area where the teeth from the baseplate do not grab anything if that makes sense.


the re:flex hinge in the disc only lines up one way correctly, which is perpendicular to your edges.


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## frankz

snowklinger said:


> the re:flex hinge in the disc only lines up one way correctly, which is perpendicular to your edges.


Thanks Snowklinger. I thought I was losing my mind.


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## cscsw

I use Burton Ion us8 and bought cartel M according to the size chart. I can't get my boot centered and is off by far. After surfing this forum and found many similar cases. I wonder I will have the same issue even I go for small. 

Don't get them unless you are sure your boots will be centered.


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## Elektropow

cscsw said:


> I use Burton Ion us8 and bought cartel M according to the size chart. I can't get my boot centered and is off by far. After surfing this forum and found many similar cases. I wonder I will have the same issue even I go for small.
> 
> Don't get them unless you are sure your boots will be centered.


Well, with my Diodes, I had to do a bit of tinkering with the highback and having got them as forward as possible with the disc, I'm now almost completely centered on a us 8 K2 Maysis. Sure, the Cartel's are probably a bit different, but I wouldn't say too much different. Not sure about the measurements between our boots though.


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## Hybrid

I have the 2015 Cartels, a piece of plastic in the adjustment on the hi-back broke after 12 days of riding. It was a manufacture failure so i got a new one for free. But it was awful timing in which it broke so Im not super impressed by the binding.


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## cscsw

Elektropow said:


> Well, with my Diodes, I had to do a bit of tinkering with the highback and having got them as forward as possible with the disc, I'm now almost completely centered on a us 8 K2 Maysis. Sure, the Cartel's are probably a bit different, but I wouldn't say too much different. Not sure about the measurements between our boots though.


Can you tell me when you did?

you shift the entire highback forward so that the heel cup barely holds the highback?


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## Elektropow

cscsw said:


> Can you tell me when you did?
> 
> you shift the entire highback forward so that the heel cup barely holds the highback?


Well I like to keep the Diode's zero canted most of the time, so I set the dial (autocant?) to that position and tried to move the lower part of the highback as forward as possible so it would bring the heel a bit more forward. So much so that I can't really use the dial for forward canting anymore without more adjustments, since it would miss the heel cup and sink. 

First things first though, if you're rocking the reflex versions, looking at the baseplate you can see three different positions with the screws. Attach the bindings using the rear ones as that will have the most effect to centering a size 8. 

Can't help you more than that. There are hundreds of better informed Burton binding users here alone that could better answer your question, but to be honest if those two points won't help I couldn't imagine what will, unless you're ready for some crazy "frankenbinding" mods for the highback, or something..

I think the biggest weakness for me using M sized Diodes with size 8 boots is that I'm not fully locked in sideways.. But a bit of leeway helps with presses so I don't mind too much.


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## Clevocapri

I have L 2014 Cartels on a 2015 Yes PYL.

They didn't centre up that well either with a Burton ruler boot in 12us. Maxed out on the reflex disc.

But after spending 10 days with them I didn't realy notice or feel like I was off centre.

They felt responsive and comfortable.

I did have a problem with my left binding base plate cracking though! I thought the screws had come loose! But no, cracked through!

So im currently waiting on Burton Australia to come up with a replacement as they don't have any L base plates in stock.....


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## ETM

Clevocapri said:


> I have L 2014 Cartels on a 2015 Yes PYL.
> 
> They didn't centre up that well either with a Burton ruler boot in 12us. Maxed out on the reflex disc.
> 
> But after spending 10 days with them I didn't realy notice or feel like I was off centre.
> 
> They felt responsive and comfortable.
> 
> I did have a problem with my left binding base plate cracking though! I thought the screws had come loose! But no, cracked through!
> 
> So im currently waiting on Burton Australia to come up with a replacement as they don't have any L base plates in stock.....


standard, Im on my 3rd diode base plate


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## cscsw

This is my case. Called Burton and they said it's ok and it's preferred to have more heel overhang. I have a doubt on it though.


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## PlanB

cscsw said:


> This is my case. Called Burton and they said it's ok and it's preferred to have more heel overhang. I have a doubt on it though.


In my experience, that little amount of heel overhang is going to be negligible. 

Ride and enjoy, that's it.


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## ETM

cscsw said:


> This is my case. Called Burton and they said it's ok and it's preferred to have more heel overhang. I have a doubt on it though.


more heel is better but you will feel that drag if you lean in enough, I was the same in large bindings and I could feel the drag.
You need smaller bindings IMO


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## Seppuccu

cscsw said:


> This is my case. Called Burton and they said it's ok and it's preferred to have more heel overhang. I have a doubt on it though.


Maybe it's the photo but that looks like you have more than 60 degrees angle of tilt available on your heel side. That should *logically* only pose a problem if you're into Euro carving.


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## sleev-les

cscsw said:


> This is my case. Called Burton and they said it's ok and it's preferred to have more heel overhang. I have a doubt on it though.


I've got a little more heel overhang on my Cartels.. Its funny that Im reading this since I just reall noticed it for some reason last weekend. My ride feels centered and don't feel any drag. I just leave it be. I've felt that off center feel before.... You'll know if its off.


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## ETM

Anticrobotic said:


> Maybe it's the photo but that looks like you have more than 60 degrees angle of tilt available on your heel side. That should *logically* only pose a problem if you're into Euro carving.


If you didnt cut into the snow as you carve that would be correct. Cut in an inch and its a whole different ball game


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## Seppuccu

ETM said:


> If you didnt cut into the snow as you carve that would be correct. Cut in an inch and its a whole different ball game


I guess I'm fucked then.


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## cscsw

I don't carve aggressively. Actually the board stiffness doesn't allow. don't have issue doing toe side carve as well. I just "feel" like I need to lean forward more to hold a press.


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## frankz

My final vote on the Cartels is, I'm going back to my Salomon Cypher's. I followed the advice for my boot size (10.5) and got the mediums, which work. 

My gripes are that I cannot move the binding far enough towards the heel side without a lot of toe hang. The other issue is that due to the baseplate, I can only move the binding toe to heel, not nose to tail like my other bindings. 

It's a very good binding and perhaps a large would have worked better for me. I'm just stating my opinion and preference.


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## BoardChitless

Promised a review earlier in the season, here chit goes...

Review on the LTD Cartel's is nothing but the highest of highs. The backs are not as stiff as Burton states, and these bindings are hands down the most comfortable and responsive binding I've owned. 

I'll do a 3yr review in a couple seasons which is the legit review imo, but nonetheless, I see these holding up pretty well already, so durability may be there and the review may be the same and boring like this.

Toe strap: Response & comfort was as expected along with the noted footbed of the cartels and most reflexes in general.

Ankle strap: This is where the hammock strap coupled with double take ratchets/straps is something the cartel line-up has always needed. ***All high-end Burton bindings should absolutely have this.

Hi-back: Perfect. If these hold up through the years, absolutely perfect stiffness along with the needed flex for all day riding. The response is like I've never ridden before, and it will be hard to go back to any Union's or my ol' customs or missions of course.

Base-plate: Been impressed with Burton as a whole through the years, so have nothing to say other than they're durable as chit, and the reflex has helped all of the Burton bindings just like the Cartel's a couple yrs ago.

Hope they last.. They're legit.


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## joebloggs13

I am also running Cartels on a 2014 Yes Pick Your Line. Just added Burton Ion Redwing. I rode the board last season, and loved the responsiveness of the Cartels.


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## F1EA

BoardChitless said:


> Promised a review earlier in the season, here chit goes...
> 
> Review on the LTD Cartel's is nothing but the highest of highs. The backs are not as stiff as Burton states, and these bindings are hands down the most comfortable and responsive binding I've owned.
> 
> I'll do a 3yr review in a couple seasons which is the legit review imo, but nonetheless, I see these holding up pretty well already, so durability may be there and the review may be the same and boring like this.
> 
> Toe strap: Response & comfort was as expected along with the noted footbed of the cartels and most reflexes in general.
> 
> Ankle strap: This is where the hammock strap coupled with double take ratchets/straps is something the cartel line-up has always needed. ***All high-end Burton bindings should absolutely have this.
> 
> Hi-back: Perfect. If these hold up through the years, absolutely perfect stiffness along with the needed flex for all day riding. The response is like I've never ridden before, and it will be hard to go back to any Union's or my ol' customs or missions of course.
> 
> Base-plate: Been impressed with Burton as a whole through the years, so have nothing to say other than they're durable as chit, and the reflex has helped all of the Burton bindings just like the Cartel's a couple yrs ago.
> 
> Hope they last.. They're legit.


So you think all Burton bindings should have dat Hammock strap? 

I'd go 1 step further.

Correction... i went:









:hairy:


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## SoCalSoul

F1EA said:


> So you think all Burton bindings should have dat Hammock strap?
> 
> I'd go 1 step further.
> 
> Correction... i went:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> :hairy:


Looks good mang. Might just do that with my Selects.

Love the Burton ankle straps and IMO the double take ratchets are second to none.


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## chomps1211

F1EA said:


> So you think all Burton bindings should have dat Hammock strap?
> 
> I'd go 1 step further.
> 
> Correction... i went:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> :hairy:


If I missed where this was answered, I apologize. :embarrased1: Did you retrofit a pair of Cartels with the new Hammock strap? I have only read a few comments on that new ankle strap, but they all seem to be very positive. 

Are they really _that_ much more comfortable than the padded strap? I thought the new(ish) "Asym" strap on my '13 Reflex Cartels was a bit more comfortable than the ones on my '11/'12's!! 

(...and if the answer is "yes" to alla that, do you mind if I ask, how much were the Hammock straps purchased separate?) 

:hairy:


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## F1EA

Nope. I put Genesis ankle straps on NOW Drives = crushing win.

Oh, the ankle straps are like $50 at Fix my bindings... you could probably buy it from Burton too.
But they wouldn't fit all binding brands so you gotta be careful. I bought mine off someone, for cheapz.

Yes, i would put that ankle strap on every Burton binding. It is that much better... excellent response. So confortable, you can't even feel it. 1 solid piece of strong rubber without seams/glue/filmsy bits. I'm not a big fan of the "get out of the way ladders"... but Burton put that on all their ladders now so it's not specific to this ankle strap.

To me, the best ankle strap there is.

It is also obviously a bit of nit-picking. Some people dont care much about bindigs, much less about an ankle strap. But I do, so yeah....


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## chomps1211

F1EA said:


> Nope. I put Genesis ankle straps on NOW Drives = crushing win.
> 
> Oh, the ankle straps are like $50 at Fix my bindings... you could probably buy it from Burton too.
> 
> To me, the best ankle strap there is.
> 
> It is also obviously a bit of nit-picking. *Some people dont care much about bindigs, much less about an ankle strap. But I do, so yeah....*


With my feet? Anything I can do to increase my foot comfort is well worth the time, money and effort. Since I've only got Cartels, (2010/11 & 2013's) making them work shouldn't be any problem. Thanks for the tip on that binding parts shop too, btw!

:hairy:


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## Seppuccu

F1EA said:


> Nope. I put Genesis ankle straps on NOW Drives = crushing win.


Genesis ankle straps on NOW Drives, on a Dupraz D1+. Damn...
:crazy7:


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## F1EA

Anticrobotic said:


> Genesis ankle straps on NOW Drives, on a Dupraz D1+. Damn...
> :crazy7:


Yeah... I like to pamper myself and all that :shower: :hairy:


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## Brewtown

Just picked up a pair of reflex Cartels and thought I would give an update regarding sizing since I referenced this thread prior to ordering....

I've got size 11 32 Session boots and went with the mediums, it fits but it's close. Heel loop is super snug, but they are also new boots, as they break in I'm sure they will conform to the binding a bit and it should be a perfect fit. Straps are one peg in from being maxed out. Had to slide the disc to the heelside but I was able to center up my boots on both my DOA with the 4 hole disc and Landlord with the channel disc. Boards are both midwides with 254 and 255 waist widths. 

Also played around with a friends size large LTDs: Heel loop was roomy and I was able to get close to centering my boots, however the heel hammock pushes your boot forward of the actual highback. I felt like on regular Cartels without the hammock it would have been a heel heavy, sloppy fit. 

My final advice to anyone in those in between sizes would be to size down if you have a reduced footprint boot and even then I wouldn't buy from anywhere that doesn't accept returns without trying them first.


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## timmytard

F1EA said:


> Nope. I put Genesis ankle straps on NOW Drives = crushing win.
> 
> Oh, the ankle straps are like $50 at Fix my bindings... you could probably buy it from Burton too.
> But they wouldn't fit all binding brands so you gotta be careful. I bought mine off someone, for cheapz.
> 
> Yes, i would put that ankle strap on every Burton binding. It is that much better... excellent response. So confortable, you can't even feel it. 1 solid piece of strong rubber without seams/glue/filmsy bits. I'm not a big fan of the "get out of the way ladders"... but Burton put that on all their ladders now so it's not specific to this ankle strap.
> 
> To me, the best ankle strap there is.
> 
> It is also obviously a bit of nit-picking. Some people dont care much about bindigs, much less about an ankle strap. But I do, so yeah....


I have a pair of Genesis & a pair of Cartels.

I was told the ratchets don't clog up in the deep snow.

Don't know if that is actually the case?

Just got them & the season officially closes today.

But if it really does, it's worth it too me.
That has happened to me this year, so I could benefit from it.

That is for deep snow only though, like deep, deep.
Where, you can't see your boots, you know they're down there, but snow just keeps falling in.
I think they're a niche thing, only a limited few are actually going to need them? 
But they look cool & they're new & different.

Everyone is gonna think they need them.

The strap, I don't know? Seems super comfy But I think it might have more play/give?

Not sure yet, guess I'm gonna have to wait until next year?


TT


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## F1EA

They've been out for a couple yrs already. Every yr they add a little something and add the straps to other bindings etc. Next yr Malavita will have the same straps and ratchets. 

It's not that they dont clog with snow ever... just that with the diagonal ladders there's always more teeth pulling the ladders at once, and the clip is on the other side. On normal ladders, there's only 1 tooth pulling and everything is on the same side...... so it's easier to skip when snow or ice gets trapped in a ladder tooth. The diagonal, double side ratchets almost never skip.

Then the ankle strap is just awesome. Great response and you don't feel it. There's no play/give at all. The play youfeel probably comes from the Genesis highback. No stitches, no seams, nothing. It's all one piece. New Now bindings will have somethin similar and Flux are going to have pretty much a copy of it.

Game changing? Everyone will need it?
Nope. But definitely not a gimmick.


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## F1EA

Brewtown said:


> Just picked up a pair of reflex Cartels and thought I would give an update regarding sizing since I referenced this thread prior to ordering....
> 
> I've got size 11 32 Session boots and went with the mediums, it fits but it's close. Heel loop is super snug, but they are also new boots, as they break in I'm sure they will conform to the binding a bit and it should be a perfect fit. Straps are one peg in from being maxed out. Had to slide the disc to the heelside but I was able to center up my boots on both my DOA with the 4 hole disc and Landlord with the channel disc. Boards are both midwides with 254 and 255 waist widths.
> 
> Also played around with a friends size large LTDs: Heel loop was roomy and I was able to get close to centering my boots, however the heel hammock pushes your boot forward of the actual highback. I felt like on regular Cartels without the hammock it would have been a heel heavy, sloppy fit.
> 
> My final advice to anyone in those in between sizes would be to size down if you have a reduced footprint boot and even then I wouldn't buy from anywhere that doesn't accept returns without trying them first.


Same with me about the sizes. L Cartel and Missions were heel heavy with sz11 boots. I fit in the L Genesis with no problem at all even with 10.5 boots, because of the hammock thing.


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## say chi sin lo

Would my size 9.5/10 work with a large 2014/2015 Cartel?


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## F1EA

say chi sin lo said:


> Would my size 9.5/10 work with a large 2014/2015 Cartel?


No man. That won't work, you need M.

Unless it's really old Vans or Salomon with a huge footprint.


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## Seppuccu

F1EA said:


> No man. That won't work, you need M.
> 
> Unless it's really old Vans or Salomon with a huge footprint.


What he said.


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## say chi sin lo

F1EA said:


> No man. That won't work, you need M.
> 
> Unless it's really old Vans or Salomon with a huge footprint.





Anticrobotic said:


> What he said.


Thank you guys, I'll have to keep looking then.


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## say chi sin lo

Just want to say thanks to all the people who said my 9.5 Rome Inferno would fit a medium Cartel, because they don't. And you clearly don't know what you're talking about. Thanks for nothing!


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## Elektropow

say chi sin lo said:


> Just want to say thanks to all the people who said my 9.5 Rome Inferno would fit a medium Cartel, because they don't. And you clearly don't know what you're talking about. Thanks for nothing!


You just don't probably know how to fit them...

Edit: So how did they not fit?


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## say chi sin lo

Elektropow said:


> You just don't probably know how to fit them...
> 
> Edit: So how did they not fit?


Or maybe because the straps are not big enough to fit? Yeah I don't know how to fit them, maybe because the buckles can't even catch the teeth? Or what about the fact that the heel cup can barely (and by barely, I mean it doesn't really fit) accommodate the heel of the boot?


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## Phedder

Calm down drama queen, you can adjust the strap length. Undo the cap holding the straps in place and use that to unscrew it, then position it further along and screw it back in.

Appropriate intro:


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## Elektropow

say chi sin lo said:


> Or maybe because the straps are not big enough to fit? Yeah I don't know how to fit them, maybe because the buckles can't even catch the teeth?


Straps all the way maxed? I have some low profile and large profile boots - yeah, a pair of fattie Vans - and I don't even have to max out the strap on those... 

My educated guess would be you don't know how to adjust the bindings and your attitude sucks so I won't even bother.


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## say chi sin lo

Phedder said:


> Calm down drama queen, you can adjust the strap length. Undo the cap holding the straps in place and use that to unscrew it, then position it further along and screw it back in.
> 
> Appropriate intro:


Thanks, but the heel cup can barely accommodate the boot, I kind of have to jam it in and even then, it's tight.


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## Phedder

Just tight on the boot, or tight as in uncomfortably squeezing your foot inside the boot? The former is what you want, the latter is an issue.


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## say chi sin lo

Elektropow said:


> Straps all the way maxed? I have some low profile and large profile boots - yeah, a pair of fattie Vans - and I don't even have to max out the strap on those...
> 
> My educated guess would be you don't know how to adjust the bindings and your attitude sucks so I won't even bother.


My attitude is alright since a few others gave me some fits when I asked whether or not these bindings were true to size.


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## say chi sin lo

Phedder said:


> Just tight on the boot, or tight as in uncomfortably squeezing your foot inside the boot? The former is what you want, the latter is an issue.


Foot to boot is fine.

Boot to binding is not really going to work. I kind of have to stomp to get the boot into the heel cup.


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## Phedder

Yeah that's not a problem. Adjust your straps, stomp you boot back into the heel pocket, ratchet them up and go ride. Quit finding problems where they don't exist.


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## say chi sin lo

Phedder said:


> Yeah that's not a problem. Adjust your straps, stomp you boot back into the heel pocket, ratchet them up and go ride. Quit finding problems where they don't exist.


Appreciate your help. I'll take another crack at it, if it's just the straps, it should work.


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## SnowDogWax

Reading this thread saved me from Cartel adjustment problems :storm:




:sarcasm:


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## joebloggs13

Ay caramba!:iagree:


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## Matuuh

Since I bought the Lib Tech Gateway snowboard last year, I have been thinking about buying something softer. I have the Forum Republics right now, lost some bolts & nuts, replaced with usual, does not feel the same anymore. So I have forum 2012 kicker boots. I have been thinking about buying either Rome 390, Burton Cartels or Malavitas, thought about Union contact pros as well at some point, but I owned 2012 Burton Contacts, I did not like them very much, straps were uncomfortable, whole different world with forum republics, so its bigger brother Burton would probably be a great fit for me. But here is the sizing question again: M or L for size 11 Forum boots? Will probably end up changing the boots as well in the future. Also I cant really decide between Malavitas and Cartels. I like to fool around, butter a lot, hit some jumps, do some runs. From what I have read, cant go wrong with either of them?


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## Seppuccu

From what I remember from trying a pair of size 11 Kickers a couple of year ago, they were not very bulky in their heel, so the M Cartels *should* be sufficient.


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## extra0

Not usually a big fan of Burton, but a few of their products are damn good...including the current cartels. When I picked them up, I was surprised how much lighter they are than other brands (my previous bindings were Rome...great bindings, overall, but heavy). With the reflex disk, some might say cartels swing more toward the park/freestyle end of the spectrum, but they're good in all conditions, really. Reflex is my least favorite feature, but everything else is fantastic...kinda spoiled off anything else after riding these.


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