# about 'advanced' carving



## Littlebigdreams (Jan 27, 2011)

How does one find more information to improve carving on a more all mountain/freestyle oriented setup (15/-15 stance)? 

I can ride on an edge and make smooth arcs of pencil lines on the snow. I'm familiar with fore/aft movements, up unweighting, down unweighting, and cross-under turns. While carving I can probably keep the board angle at about 45 degrees if the condition is nice enough and the run is steep enough. 

So I think I understand "basic carving". The thing is, I have never seen any discussions anywhere about how to improve beyond this type of carving. I don't even know whether if there's a point to learning beyond this type of carving. Like... does trying to become better than this help with freestyle, all mountain, or any aspects of riding?

I've seen people on a freestyle board setup that can somewhat mimic euro carving. They can ride almost with their body parallel to the ground and touch their hands on the snow. They wear soft boots and have similar park setups (something like 15/-9). So I know that my 'basic carving' can definitely be improved. But I just don't know whether if there's a point to it. And I don't know where to find the information... :dunno:


----------



## BurtonAvenger (Aug 14, 2007)

Go forth and ride and attempt this soft boot euro carving, from there you will see the door to endless possibilities.


----------



## speedjason (May 2, 2013)

I guess it depends on what you are looking for. are you making some quick switches or you are still doing big long carves?
you looking for function or form?


----------



## KIRKRIDER (Mar 18, 2008)

First thing you could change your angles to a +21 + 12, ride the board centered and see how it feels, eventually increasing angles to +31 + 18, and keep going.


----------



## Littlebigdreams (Jan 27, 2011)

speedjason said:


> I guess it depends on what you are looking for. are you making some quick switches or you are still doing big long carves?
> you looking for function or form?


I guess what I'm saying is I know of a few people that focus their entire time on the mountain "improving their carving". They can do some big/aggressive carves and keep their body close to the ground, which I cannot do. The best I can do is probably 45 degree angle to the snow when I carve down a steep groomed run. 

I'm always down to learning new techniques if it improves my free riding or freestyle skills. But I am wondering whether if getting that specialized into carving is of any use to freestyle or freeride progression? And also, where can I find information beyond basic carving?


----------



## CassMT (Mar 14, 2013)

what's the point of any of this sh!t? if you like doing that and it's fun then do that.


----------



## td.1000 (Mar 26, 2014)

doing "big/aggressive carves" will not help your freestyle riding if that's what you're really asking. if anything it's the opposite, you need to be able to do tiny on-the-fly adjustments (as you line up for a feature, for example).


----------



## KIRKRIDER (Mar 18, 2008)

It's just really fun to do when there's no powder, or on hardpack. And it does give you more control overall...


----------



## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

Your question about the usefulness made me smile, cos that's what I'm sometimes thinking when I see kids slipping over features in the park  Different strokes for different folks. It's not the question if improving carving helps with something else - the aim is faster, shorter, deeper, lower, smoother just for the fun of it. 
I actually wanted to check if Canmanski (member here; softboot euro carver) from www.megustasport.com has not only reviwes but also teaching vids, but the site is down at the moment :dunno:


----------



## booron (Mar 22, 2014)

neni said:


> Your question about the usefulness made me smile, cos that's what I'm sometimes thinking when I see kids slipping over features in the park  Different strokes for different folks. It's not the question if improving carving helps with something else - the aim is faster, shorter, deeper, lower, smoother just for the fun of it.
> I actually wanted to check if Canmanski (member here; softboot euro carver) from www.megustasport.com has not only reviwes but also teaching vids, but the site is down at the moment :dunno:


Yep, I was interested in Bart's deal, but it looks like he lost interest well before it went down and hadn't really done anything with the site for awhile...


----------



## Slush Puppie (Aug 15, 2011)

Basic carving is simply cranking the board onto an edge and riding out the carve according to the sidecut. 

More advanced carving is where you start to play with fore/aft and influence the shape of the turn. For example at the very end of the turn you can use either some sudden aft pressure, or some rear foot pedal (or both) to turn back up the hill and launch you powerfully into the next turn. 

In terms of edge angle, its very dependant on speed and just about every other factor is somewhat linked and your posture has a big influence on it too. There are also a few distinct carving techniques, from the euro carve style to a more inline and stacked type posture (as in my avatar). You absolutely can euro carve with a duck stance and soft boots/board. I find it way easier on the toes but I'm still learning. There's a couple of guys out here I've seen absolutely cranked over forearm running neatly over the snow, toe and heal. All on basic all mountain snowboard gear. Quite inspiring to watch. One of them, Ive seen do a complete tight 360 in a carve, flat to the snow from which he then came to rest back at the bottom of the loop by standing up and taking his board off like it wasn't even a thing. That's quiet an impressive way to arrive at a bar as it turns out.


----------



## Littlebigdreams (Jan 27, 2011)

Slush Puppie said:


> Basic carving is simply cranking the board onto an edge and riding out the carve according to the sidecut.
> 
> More advanced carving is where you start to play with fore/aft and influence the shape of the turn. For example at the very end of the turn you can use either some sudden aft pressure, or some rear foot pedal (or both) to turn back up the hill and launch you powerfully into the next turn.


I understand the effect of fore/aft movements on the carves, but not really on the rear foot pedal thing. I know that turning/pressuring toes or heels separately during carves help with turning, but I don't know if that's the same as what you're talking about? 



Slush Puppie said:


> In terms of edge angle, its very dependant on speed and just about every other factor is somewhat linked and your posture has a big influence on it too. There are also a few distinct carving techniques, from the euro carve style to a more inline and stacked type posture (as in my avatar). You absolutely can euro carve with a duck stance and soft boots/board. I find it way easier on the toes but I'm still learning. There's a couple of guys out here I've seen absolutely cranked over forearm running neatly over the snow, toe and heal. All on basic all mountain snowboard gear. Quite inspiring to watch. One of them, Ive seen do a complete tight 360 in a carve, flat to the snow from which he then came to rest back at the bottom of the loop by standing up and taking his board off like it wasn't even a thing. That's quiet an impressive way to arrive at a bar as it turns out.


Yeah one person I've met mentioned to me that he's been taught to "throw his back arm and chest towards the nose of the board during heelside carves while digging deep into the carve with his ankles". Apparently that helps him with his carves. I have never heard this kind of technique before, which is one of the reasons I'm asking for more information out of curiosity.


----------



## speedjason (May 2, 2013)

Littlebigdreams said:


> Yeah one person I've met mentioned to me that he's been taught to "throw his back arm and chest towards the nose of the board during heelside carves while digging deep into the carve with his ankles". Apparently that helps him with his carves. I have never heard this kind of technique before, which is one of the reasons I'm asking for more information out of curiosity.


that could be his highbacks are not set to enough forward lean so he's board is not at big enough angle to carve at higher speed.


----------



## Slush Puppie (Aug 15, 2011)

Yeah basically peddling is effecting the edge tilt independently by torsionally twisting the board with one or both feet. By increasing the back foot pedal at the end of the turn, you are increasing the rear edge angle to be slightly more than the front and that helps steer the back of the board round and has a positive effect on grip as well. The aft pressure works similarly because you are in effect shortening the rear edge, which has the effect of simulating a tighter sidecut, thus tightening the turn. Timing becomes very important and you don't really need to worry too much about the fore pressure, if you get the aft right, you'll get enough fore as the reciprocal of the aft as you change edge. For example, on the toe edge, imagine giving your rear knee a little crank towards the snow just as you cross the fall line and want to change edge.

For the more euro style (as far as i understand it anyway) you actually use quite a lot of upper body rotation - by taking your rear arm and bringing it forward to the position where it will then rest on the snow. it feels quite sudden and the board really locks in and snaps around you, sort of forcing the aft pressure and giving insane grip through the carve. i can't really describe the steps well though. i found some good Youtube vids and a carving technique site at the start of the season. i'll dig them up and post because frankly most of the stuff on YouTube is nothing close to the eurocraving I've seen done.


----------



## Slush Puppie (Aug 15, 2011)

Well this isn't the same but looks useful

ExtremeCarving FORUM • View topic - softboots carving : Rotation, Push-Pull and even EC

It does show forward angles in this example and I would hasten to add that its possible to carve very nicely without using any upper body rotation, eurocarve is just one flavour


----------



## Littlebigdreams (Jan 27, 2011)

Slush Puppie said:


> Well this isn't the same but looks useful
> 
> ExtremeCarving FORUM • View topic - softboots carving : Rotation, Push-Pull and even EC
> 
> It does show forward angles in this example and I would hasten to add that its possible to carve very nicely without using any upper body rotation, eurocarve is just one flavour


that looks so very interesting! tried to glimpse at the videos at work but i'll have to study them when i get home XD


----------



## speedjason (May 2, 2013)

Slush Puppie said:


> Well this isn't the same but looks useful
> 
> ExtremeCarving FORUM â€¢ View topic - softboots carving : Rotation, Push-Pull and even EC
> 
> It does show forward angles in this example and I would hasten to add that its possible to carve very nicely without using any upper body rotation, eurocarve is just one flavour


just seems very weird you always riding with upper body facing forward. however it is a more balanced positions comparing to the Hump and Dump when you have duck stance. at the end its almost close to mono-skiing.
I want to give it a try next year tho.


----------



## BurtonAvenger (Aug 14, 2007)

1. Anyone that says you have to change your stance to 'aggressively carve' obviously doesn't understand how to carve. 

2. Anyone that says long drawn out carves don't help your freestyle obviously doesn't understand the importance of edge control. 

3. Like I said go forth and ride if you think you can carve it, then carve it, I strongly suggest watching a Yawgoons edit to see how they are carving and try to imitate that.


----------



## surfinsnow (Feb 4, 2010)

Littlebigdreams said:


> How does one find more information to improve carving on a more all mountain/freestyle oriented setup (15/-15 stance)?


Why would your ride duck stance if you're doing freeride carving? Seems like just the opposite of what you'd want to do. I like to "surf" and work the edges of the trails, working from big carving arcs to lip smacks off the banks and sides of the trails. I ride 15/0, which is pretty close to the way you'd ride a surfboard. Try out different settings, do what works best for you. But I think you'd get more carving power out of your back foot if you weren't riding duck.


----------



## CassMT (Mar 14, 2013)

roun here you want to be able to do it all. i love come blastin out of deep pow woods onto the trail you need and laying right into a big deep toe carve. not many places are gonna have only one type of condition to deal with on a given run down. really good carving abilities, to whatever level you want to take it, are an essential part of the skillset. shocking and scandalous how many guys these days don't even know for sure what you mean when you say 'carve'


----------



## KIRKRIDER (Mar 18, 2008)

Here:


----------



## Extazy (Feb 27, 2014)

I think this is same guy

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AP6sBIjzXBQ


----------



## Littlebigdreams (Jan 27, 2011)

surfinsnow said:


> Why would your ride duck stance if you're doing freeride carving? Seems like just the opposite of what you'd want to do. I like to "surf" and work the edges of the trails, working from big carving arcs to lip smacks off the banks and sides of the trails. I ride 15/0, which is pretty close to the way you'd ride a surfboard. Try out different settings, do what works best for you. But I think you'd get more carving power out of your back foot if you weren't riding duck.


Well while I'm inbound I like to do park laps and also do occasional ground tricks / butters. That means a duck stance is great. 

But just because I do these doesn't mean that I don't enjoy carving. I've seen people that are able to carve well with a duck stance, so from that I know that I got lots of room for improvement. While I know that it's easier and probably more fun to carve on an actual freeride stance, I don't want to lose the versatility to play around in the park.


----------



## Littlebigdreams (Jan 27, 2011)

BurtonAvenger said:


> 1. Anyone that says you have to change your stance to 'aggressively carve' obviously doesn't understand how to carve.
> 
> 2. Anyone that says long drawn out carves don't help your freestyle obviously doesn't understand the importance of edge control.
> 
> 3. Like I said go forth and ride if you think you can carve it, then carve it, I strongly suggest watching a Yawgoons edit to see how they are carving and try to imitate that.


just re-watched yawgoons 12. thanks for the reminder. i was actually trying to imitate the move at 1:46 last weekend :laugh:


----------



## Slush Puppie (Aug 15, 2011)

surfinsnow said:


> Why would your ride duck stance if you're doing freeride carving?


Because you can. And who wants to change their board setup whenever they want to carve, when there's really no need to.


----------



## poutanen (Dec 22, 2011)

Littlebigdreams said:


> How does one find more information to improve carving on a more all mountain/freestyle oriented setup (15/-15 stance)?


Find a really top level instructor somewhere. I'm not a big fan of the video teaching technique... Cool to look at and get some ideas, but for what you're describing, you probably need somebody to look at what you're already doing.

FWIW, I ride duck, and like to carve like hell. Nothing like launching off a cat track, then riding some powder trees, then carving up the groomers all in the same run!

For anyone that thinks it's a waste of time: you're a waste of time. :cheeky4:


----------



## surfinsnow (Feb 4, 2010)

poutanen said:


> Find a really top level instructor somewhere. I'm not a big fan of the video teaching technique... Cool to look at and get some ideas, but for what you're describing, you probably need somebody to look at what you're already doing.
> 
> FWIW, I ride duck, and like to carve like hell. Nothing like launching off a cat track, then riding some powder trees, then carving up the groomers all in the same run!
> 
> For anyone that thinks it's a waste of time: you're a waste of time. :cheeky4:


I guess I'm just a douche bag. I seem to get a lot more "pedal" power out of the back foot if it's 0 degrees or even more forward. I admit, I don't worry about transitioning to park…just freeride and tree runs. I ride a directional board and never worry about park. I like to be able to stomp the pedal to carve and get more speed, torque the board as others have said. But I can still ride the directional board board switch when conditions call for it.


----------



## chomps1211 (Mar 30, 2011)

BurtonAvenger said:


> 1. Anyone that says you have to change your stance to 'aggressively carve' obviously doesn't understand how to carve.
> 
> 2. Anyone that says long drawn out carves don't help your freestyle obviously doesn't understand the importance of edge control.
> 
> 3. Like I said go forth and ride if you think you can carve it, then carve it, I *strongly suggest watching a Yawgoons edit to see how they are carving and try to imitate that.*



Just googled and watched #11 & #12 on Vimeo. If I was ever interested in becoming a park rat? Those guys would definitely be some of my heros!! Some mad, board thrashing skills there. :thumbsup:

I didn't see a lot "carving" in either of those, but #11 did have a few more short cuts than 12 did. From what I saw in that vid, I would love to see more footage where they are really slicing up the slope. Any particular edit I should look for featuring more of their carving?


----------



## VincentOlenik (Apr 30, 2014)

Carving is just another word for slowing down with out throwing your board totally horizontal. Like in steep tree's, or when your getting a little too fast for the terrain coming up. I wouldn't call carving something you do because it's cool.


----------



## chomps1211 (Mar 30, 2011)

VincentOlenik said:


> Carving is just another word for slowing down with out throwing your board totally horizontal. Like in steep tree's, or when your getting a little too fast for the terrain coming up. I wouldn't call carving something you do because it's cool.


:question: :WTF:

Look again!


----------



## f00bar (Mar 6, 2014)

Traditionally advanced carving is passed down from father to son. It's typically only useful 3 days a year, Thanksgiving, xmas, and Easter.


----------



## CassMT (Mar 14, 2013)

VincentOlenik said:


> Carving is just another word for slowing down with out throwing your board totally horizontal. Like in steep tree's, or when your getting a little too fast for the terrain coming up. I wouldn't call carving something you do because it's cool.


 finally someone who knows speaks up, you deserve some kind of prize for this post, thank you


----------



## oldmate (Oct 24, 2011)

VincentOlenik said:


> Carving is just another word for slowing down with out throwing your board totally horizontal. Like in steep tree's, or when your getting a little too fast for the terrain coming up. I wouldn't call carving something you do because it's cool.


Nailed it.


----------



## Slush Puppie (Aug 15, 2011)

VincentOlenik said:


> Carving is just another word for slowing down with out throwing your board totally horizontal. Like in steep tree's, or when your getting a little too fast for the terrain coming up.


Um, what? No.

Carving simply means non skidded turns, where the board tracks along its edge leaving only a pencil width line in the snow. Because of this you carry all your speed and the only way to control it is by the turn shape and finishing your turns pointing back up the hill. Literally no part of what you said is correct.


----------



## kung-POW (Mar 16, 2011)

Slush Puppie said:


> Um, what? No.
> 
> Carving simply means non skidded turns, where the board tracks along its edge leaving only a pencil width line in the snow. Because of this you carry all your speed and the only way to control it is by the turn shape and finishing your turns pointing back up the hill. Literally no part of what you said is correct.


:thumbsup: Nailed it! For anyone who thinks they're slowing down by carving, they're not really carving.


----------



## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

VincentOlenik said:


> Carving is just another word for slowing down with out throwing your board totally horizontal. Like in steep tree's, or when your getting a little too fast for the terrain coming up. I wouldn't call carving something you do because it's cool.


Nice try, DC!
Check http://www.snowboardingforum.com/boards/139546-powder-tree-backcountry-board-advice.html and it gets obvious that Vincent is another aka/fake account of the long list of this troll.


----------



## surfinsnow (Feb 4, 2010)

VincentOlenik said:


> Carving is just another word for slowing down with out throwing your board totally horizontal. Like in steep tree's, or when your getting a little too fast for the terrain coming up. I wouldn't call carving something you do because it's cool.


Carving is just a way to slow down in trees? Do you even know what "snowboarding" is? That's the craziest shit I've heard in ages.


----------



## surfinsnow (Feb 4, 2010)

CassMT said:


> finally someone who knows speaks up, you deserve some kind of prize for this post, thank you


Yeah, the prize for the dumbest post ever. You get Second Place!

:yahoo:


----------



## CassMT (Mar 14, 2013)

i figured that my post was obviously beyond sarcastic, guess not!


----------



## chomps1211 (Mar 30, 2011)

CassMT said:


> i figured that my post was obviously beyond sarcastic, guess not!


...now you know why I use so many emoticons! :dunno:  :blink:


----------



## speedjason (May 2, 2013)

VincentOlenik said:


> Carving is just another word for slowing down with out throwing your board totally horizontal. Like in steep tree's, or when your getting a little too fast for the terrain coming up. I wouldn't call carving something you do because it's cool.


----------



## poutanen (Dec 22, 2011)

neni said:


> Nice try, DC!
> Check http://www.snowboardingforum.com/boards/139546-powder-tree-backcountry-board-advice.html and it gets obvious that Vincent is another aka/fake account of the long list of this troll.


:eusa_clap: :eusa_clap: :eusa_clap:


----------



## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

chomps1211 said:


> ...now you know why I use so many emoticons! :dunno:  :blink:


Yea... we lack some of these for those kind of posts:
























BTW: I was insecure about Cass' s post at first as well, but after three moments I thought naaaw, it's Cass, it _must_ be sarcastic


----------



## Donutz (May 12, 2010)

chomps1211 said:


> ...now you know why I use so many emoticons! :dunno:  :blink:


For future reference, the sarcastic smiley -> 



.
.
.
.
.


----------



## chomps1211 (Mar 30, 2011)

Donutz said:


> For future reference, the sarcastic smiley ->
> 
> 
> 
> ...











0123456789


----------



## CassMT (Mar 14, 2013)

unless someone has hacked my account, you will never see an emoticon in this space


----------



## chomps1211 (Mar 30, 2011)

neni said:


> Nice try, DC!
> Check http://www.snowboardingforum.com/boards/139546-powder-tree-backcountry-board-advice.html and it gets obvious that Vincent is another aka/fake account of the long list of this troll.


Good catch nen's!!! 

Everything about that kind of carving looks fun as hell to me! Having that kind of edge control at those speeds, the G forces, being able to throw yourself in and out of those extreme turns, leaving nothing but a pencil thin track behind you?

What's not to luv?!!! 

Trolls be trollin! (...and Cass be baiting them!)


----------



## SnowDogWax (Nov 8, 2013)

Normally my stance is +12 -9, was testing different stances for slalom racing. Most extreme was +37 +27 . Finally finished with +21 +9 which allowed me to carve and ride switch. Not much different than my +12 -9 duck stance . Found that bindings and boots had more of an impact on my ability to carve than my stance. Someone who is an expert could lay down a carve on any board with almost any set-up. As a noobe in slalom and racing think I'll ride with a forward stance.


----------



## Deacon (Mar 2, 2013)

CassMT said:


> unless someone has hacked my account, you will never see an emoticon in this space


I'd bet a dollar that's the first time you've used the word "emoticon" in a sentence.


----------



## Mizu Kuma (Apr 13, 2014)

VincentOlenik said:


> Carving is just another word for slowing down with out throwing your board totally horizontal. Like in steep tree's, or when your getting a little too fast for the terrain coming up. I wouldn't call carving something you do because it's cool.


Yeah, carving is somethin ya do to a Ham or a Turkey!!!!!

Kinda like what's happenin to you at the moment!!!!!


----------



## BurtonAvenger (Aug 14, 2007)

Since DCsnow likes to troll and fuck with people I thought I would help everyone out here.

His name is Matt Hwang he goes to Strake Jesuit school Strake Jesuit - Welcome to Strake Jesuit College Preparatory where he is on the JV Water Polo Team as well as the swim team. 

His email address is [email protected]









That's him. 

Anyone want more? All this found with a simple IP and email address and google, took about 2 minutes.


----------



## Mizu Kuma (Apr 13, 2014)

Hahahahaaa!!!!! :eusa_clap:


----------



## chomps1211 (Mar 30, 2011)

Looks like BA wins at the internet once again! :thumbsup:


----------



## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

LOL hahahaha :eusa_clap:


----------



## neni (Dec 24, 2012)




----------



## oldmate (Oct 24, 2011)

Lol amazing work, well done. I had pictured someone different though.


----------



## killclimbz (Aug 10, 2007)




----------



## killclimbz (Aug 10, 2007)

You can all have your fun with him...
http://memegenerator.net/instance/49478493?urlName=Dcsnow&browsingOrder=New&browsingTimeSpan=AllTime


----------



## SnowDogWax (Nov 8, 2013)

Let it snow…


----------



## ekb18c (Mar 11, 2013)

This thread is awesome!


----------



## Ocho (Mar 13, 2011)

killclimbz said:


>


----------



## SnowDogWax (Nov 8, 2013)

If I only had a brain,


----------



## booron (Mar 22, 2014)

SnowDogWax said:


> Someone who is an expert could lay down a carve on any board with almost any set-up. .


Too bad Bart C never comes around anymore, that guy rides Van's Auras!!


----------



## BFBF (Jan 15, 2012)

killclimbz said:


>



muahahahhahah.....angry asian or "crazian":yahoo:


----------



## CassMT (Mar 14, 2013)

now to set up a thing to email him a link to this thread 400,000 times a day


----------



## deagol (Mar 26, 2014)

how could anyone from Houston, Texas even be a snowboarder??
(I don't think taking an annual vacation to Keystone should count)

sounds like the 6th circle of Hell to me ....


----------

