# Male -v- Female Tricks



## grafta (Dec 21, 2009)

You see the same thing in surfing, but I think it's a bit simpler in that Female surfers are generally not as aggressive, or physically as strong. In that case it's not a bad thing, just a different style than men.

There's no good reason to not throw-down if you are a lady that shreds 

Anyway, besides competition who really cares about gender?


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## IdahoFreshies (Jul 9, 2011)

i really think it comes down to physical limitations. The guys are just bigger so they weigh more and are stronger so they can get higher off jumps and out of the pipe so they can throw bigger tricks . As said in another thread it is also about testosterone lol. It seems that guys just tell fear and injury consequence to fuck off better than girls do, so they huck way bigger tricks. Also i have noticed that guys seem to progress almost twice as fast as girls do when learning to board, but that has just been a personal observation. Oh but i love riding with girls that are on the same skill level, its way fun riding with a girl that can hold her own, i gotta find more of em!


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## WasatchMan (Aug 30, 2011)

This has been discussed to death.

The female body is a work of art. The male body is utilitarian, it's for getting around, like a jeep.


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## jyuen (Dec 16, 2007)

it's because girls do push ups from their knees and swing from closer golf tees


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## IdahoFreshies (Jul 9, 2011)

WasatchMan said:


> it's for getting around, like a jeep.


huurrrr duuurrrr, imma jeep



















i love making fun of jeeps


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## linvillegorge (Jul 6, 2009)

There's just a massive gap between male athleticism and female athleticism. A phenomenal female athlete would be an above average male athlete.

I went to HS with a girl who was a top 10 national basketball recruit. She was an unreal athlete for a girl, but she wouldn't have even started for the men's team. That's just the type of gap there is.

Appreciate the women's riding for what it is, but you'll always be disappointed if you compare it to men's riding. With that said, if there was a guy at your local hill ripping it up like the top chicks, you'd say that fucker could ride his ass off... and you'd be right.


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## MTC (Jan 9, 2012)

linvillegorge said:


> There's just a massive gap between male athleticism and female athleticism. A phenomenal female athlete would be an above average male athlete.
> 
> I went to HS with a girl who was a top 10 national basketball recruit. She was an unreal athlete for a girl, but she wouldn't have even started for the men's team. That's just the type of gap there is.
> 
> Appreciate the women's riding for what it is, but you'll always be disappointed if you compare it to men's riding. With that said, if there was a guy at your local hill ripping it up like the top chicks, you'd say that fucker could ride his ass off... and you'd be right.


'for a girl!' Love the little chauvinistic digs the men unwittingly pop into their posts (know what your getting at though)

I wish I'd had the cash and the snow to snowboard 20 years back when I was young and super fit.

Love the Jeep photo's, very manly


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## linvillegorge (Jul 6, 2009)

MTC said:


> 'for a girl!' Love the little chauvinistic digs the men unwittingly pop into their posts (know what your getting at though)
> 
> I wish I'd had the cash and the snow to snowboard 20 years back when I was young and super fit.
> 
> Love the Jeep photo's, very manly


It's not chauvinistic, it's true.

Men tend to be more athletic as a whole than women. It's no different than saying that men as a whole tend to be taller than women. It doesn't mean that every man is taller and/or more athletic than every woman, but as a whole, this is the trend.


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## MTC (Jan 9, 2012)

linvillegorge said:


> It's not chauvinistic, it's true.
> 
> Men tend to be more athletic as a whole than women. It's no different than saying that men as a whole tend to be taller than women. It doesn't mean that every man is taller and/or more athletic than every woman, but as a whole, this is the trend.


I know, there's no denying that men are stronger and more macho than girls. I would not want to have it any other way.

Please feel free to post photo's of fit men or Jeeps demonstrating their bigness and strength.


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## IdahoFreshies (Jul 9, 2011)

MTC said:


> Love the Jeep photo's, very manly


the jeep pics had nothing to do with manliness or male vs female, i just posted them because i dont like jeeps and was making fun of them.

also maybe it's just me but i noticed you are getting a ted defensive


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## Donutz (May 12, 2010)

MTC said:


> 'for a girl!' Love the little chauvinistic digs the men unwittingly pop into their posts (know what your getting at though)


Screw it. Go out and have fun, push yourself as much or as little as you want. 



MTC said:


> I wish I'd had the cash and the snow to snowboard 20 years back when I was young and super fit.


I feel the pain on the lack of snow. We're having a lot of the same here. But don't let your age be a factor. There are lots of snowboarders in their 50's and up.


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## Bones (Feb 24, 2008)

MTC said:


> 'for a girl!' Love the little chauvinistic digs the men unwittingly pop into their posts (know what your getting at though)


I coached 2 women in two different team sports for nearly 20 years so I hope I don't come across a chauvinistic.

For me, there's 2 factors: strength and weight. On the strength side, on a pound for pound basis, I'd say men still probably have a slight edge, but probably only slight. Just think of what those little 80lb gymnasts can do. But on a pure, brute strength basis, obviously it's men. But I don't think that really makes much of a difference unless you're using the same equipment (throwing the same weight ball, dunking on the same Bball rim, etc.) 

For park tricks, it isn't a factor, you're throwing around your own body weight, but the momentum factor on the same pipe means that heavier people should be able to get bigger air. Bigger air means more time to complete tricks. I think that if women could get the air that men do, then it would be a very equal playing field. I'd love to see what some of those female vaulters could do in a pipe, that's fearless!


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## [email protected] (Nov 23, 2011)

For me it's getting to the point I would rather watch a female comp. Seems like there is more style involved since it's not just see how many rotations you can do without falling.


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## IdahoFreshies (Jul 9, 2011)

[email protected] said:


> For me it's getting to the point I would rather watch a female comp. Seems like there is more style involved since it's not just see how many rotations you can do without falling.


where are you seeing "style" in womens comps? half the time they dont even land their tricks, and when they do about half of that is a mixture of no grabs or flat out flailing for air stability. if you want to watch style in 360s and 540s just watch a snowboard movie, where its all about the cool shots. 



> it's not just see how many rotations you can do without falling.


what do you expect out of a competition that is supposed to push the boundaries of the sport? Comps are for showing who is the best, and you get that with technical tricks that one up others, not "oh how tweaked that 360 is, must be FULLLLL of style".


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## MTC (Jan 9, 2012)

IdahoFreshies said:


> the jeep pics had nothing to do with manliness or male vs female, i just posted them because i dont like jeeps and was making fun of them.
> 
> also maybe it's just me but i noticed you are getting a ted defensive


Not defensive, just havin a laugh, sat here chuckling away to all the replies especially ladies doing push ups on their knees


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## Tech420 (Jul 1, 2011)

Really? Why don't women play in any male professional sports? Because they flat out can not compete. It is nothing offensive, but the flat out truth. Males and females have completely different body types. If you need an example just look at male vs female body builders and you will really see the difference.


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## Donutz (May 12, 2010)

I think Tech is right. There are differences in physical capabilities between men and women just like there are physical differences in capabilities between men and horses. I don't feel bad that a horse can beat me in a foot race, why should a woman care that a man can beat a woman at things that men are better at? Kind of a self-fulfilling prophesy thing.

Prejudice/bigotry/sexism doesn't consist of recognizing differences -- it's about pre-judging someone, i.e. you're a woman so you couldn't possibly be a firefighter. If you're 5'4" and 98 lbs I'd say yeah, you can't be a firefighter whether you're male or female. But if you're Venus Williams I think you could probably carry me out of a burning building just fine.

Here's an interesting stats trick: Take 100 random men and 100 random women. Line up all the men by height, and all the women by height, and go down the two lines comparing each woman to each man. Statistically you should get at most one woman taller than one man. Now randomize the lines and do the comparison again. I can't remember the exact figure, but I think it's about 30% of women taller than their male counterpart. The point is that when you're dealing with the best of the best like Olympic athletes, the men are pretty much guaranteed to be better. When you're talking about a random sampling of people, there's a good chance that any individual woman could be faster, stronger, or a better snowboarder than any individual man.


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## Leo (Nov 24, 2009)

Gretchen Bleiler Crippler... enough said.


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## [email protected] (Nov 23, 2011)

what do you expect out of a competition that is supposed to push the boundaries of the sport? Comps are for showing who is the best, and you get that with technical tricks that one up others, not "oh how tweaked that 360 is, must be FULLLLL of style".[/QUOTE]

You're right, guess that's why I don't really watch comps.


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## BoardWalk (Mar 22, 2011)

Strength and Weight? SW is 5ft nothing and probably weighs 110 when his long flowing locks are soaking wet.


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## jyuen (Dec 16, 2007)

MTC said:


> Not defensive, just havin a laugh, sat here chuckling away to all the replies especially ladies doing push ups on their knees


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## HoboMaster (May 16, 2010)

As has been repeated, men have pretty clear physical advantages - especially in the area of muscle mass, but I would say a lot of it is social and mental. Testosterone and "male-dominance" play a big part. You get a group of males together and you see a lot of attempts to one-up each other. You get a group of females together and there is less of that push to compete, though it's usually more of a supportive atmosphere.


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## Nette (Nov 4, 2011)

I really wish I could board like a dude haha.


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## grafta (Dec 21, 2009)

Nette said:


> I really wish I could board like a dude haha.


No reason you can't ride like a dude (or better than most guys for that matter).

This conversation has made it sound like guys have the physical advantage. Truth is, in the _real world_ skills aren't measured like in comps.

Go shred, progress!


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## ChristinaAK36 (Oct 26, 2011)

linvillegorge said:


> It's not chauvinistic, it's true.
> 
> Men tend to be more athletic as a whole than women. It's no different than saying that men as a whole tend to be taller than women. It doesn't mean that every man is taller and/or more athletic than every woman, but as a whole, this is the trend.


OK OK as a woman, I'll chip in. You are right, overall, men are more atheletic and aggressive. Thats not to say women never are. Personally I've always been a tom boy, into roughneck kinda sports that are aggressive and have always gone beyond my limits to keep up with the boys. For me, its in my nature. For *most *women, its not. I've drag raced for 6 years and its a male dominated sport so that made me want it more. I have 3 brothers... that likely explains it. When I want something, I get it. 

When you look at the build of women compared to men, we know that in snowboarding height, weight, and all of the above come into play for how you shred so naturally, men and women arent going to always ride the same. I have to agree that women are just as capable physically to do whatever the hell they want...but it goes back to the mentality. I agree with the social comment, too. Women have a tough time in any traditionally male dominiated sport. They are torn down and left to build themselves back up very often. I guess you could say that women have to work a little harder to play the game if they want it and often have to work harder to gain respect. I experience this in racing ALOT.

It will be interesting to see women in various sports in 10 or 15 years. I say rock on ladies... if you can shred ... shred. I'm not all that good, but if I am out riding with the guys, I am likely (100% likely) pushing myself alot harder than if I'm riding with the girls.


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## ChristinaAK36 (Oct 26, 2011)

and if it counts... I dont do push ups on my knees. Take that in any context you want


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## Nette (Nov 4, 2011)

grafta said:


> No reason you can't ride like a dude (or better than most guys for that matter).
> 
> This conversation has made it sound like guys have the physical advantage. Truth is, in the _real world_ skills aren't measured like in comps.
> 
> Go shred, progress!


Haha okay thanx, that gives me hope. (I think that sentence isn't right, but I don't know how to say it otherwise)
I really like to progress but I think I need someone who can teach me. 
Is there anyone who want to haha?


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## ChristinaAK36 (Oct 26, 2011)

Nette said:


> Haha okay thanx, that gives me hope. (I think that sentence isn't right, but I don't know how to say it otherwise)
> I really like to progress but I think I need someone who can teach me.
> Is there anyone who want to haha?


In any sport, follow someone better than you... thats what pushes you.


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## ThunderChunky (Oct 1, 2011)

I get that men are more physically fit for this type of action, buuuuut that's what training and working out is for. You ever see a women's body builder? You're telling me SW is bigger and badder than that. It's not that women are restricted, it's that they are to afraid to push themselves past those restrictions. If a women snowboarder dedicated their life to getting to a man's level I guarantee you they could. I've witnessed a ten year old who never works out and doesn't train for snowboarding do a 1080. You're telling me that a full grown professional woman athlete who trains is worse than him because women are weak? 

I'm not bashing women because they can't do this stuff, which they can, I just don't understand why. Women in other sports have been able to compete at man's level. It was only a select few who worked hard enough, but why can't women in snowboarding do that. You can always overcome something, don't use it as an excuse.


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## cocolulu (Jan 21, 2011)

HoboMaster said:


> As has been repeated, men have pretty clear physical advantages - especially in the area of muscle mass, but I would say a lot of it is social and mental. Testosterone and "male-dominance" play a big part. You get a group of males together and you see a lot of attempts to one-up each other. You get a group of females together and there is less of that push to compete, though it's usually more of a supportive atmosphere.


I think this is also a large part of it. Although halfpipe/park snowboarding isn't the same as alpine racing, and they have different physical demands, you still don't see nearly as large as a skill gap in skiing as you do in snowboarding even though the physical differences are largely the same.

I think there just aren't nearly as many women who are interested in taking their snowboarding to that level. This is anecdotal, but for example, among my friends, all the guys push themselves to go further and further, while all the girls are pretty content cruising down greens and blues. I think I'm one of the more serious learners among my girl friends, and even then, I have NO desire to backflip onto a rail, or double rodeo (or backflip) off of a kicker, like they show on videos that pop up here.

So really, it's our own fault that we're not doing crazy tricks... but I don't really care. I'm just out to have fun, my sense of accomplishment is personal. It would be cool to be a model/athlete like Torah Bright................... but eh whatever, who cares :laugh:

EDIT: And I don't do pushups on my knees either. And I can do more pullups than many fat tubby guys in PE.


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## CheeseForSteeze (May 11, 2011)

ThunderChunky said:


> Women in other sports have been able to compete at man's level.


This is patently false. There is a reason why men and women's sports are separated and it boils down to internal endocrine chemistry and biology. Just recently, Cristiane Santos was busted and stripped of her 145lb Strikeforce title because she tested positive for androgen stimulants. If you ever want to see even a shadow what a man competing against a woman directly would result in (especially in very direct arena, such as fighting), watch any of her bouts. She absolute demolishes other women and that's without the full androgen production capability and biology of a man.

Look at running, jumping, swimming etc. records for men are substantially greater than women. It's just biology. Male humans are evolved to perform physical laborious tasks. Sports are essentially just a series of physical tasks performed within a set of rules. To say women in other sports compete at a man's level is untrue and paints women athletes unwilling or incapable of working hard and achieving.

Snowboarding isn't as physical, but it certainly helps to have a physical advantage. Also, women's snowboarding, as a professional sport, is less developed than men's. At any rate, snowboarding isn't about being "the best". Competitions exist only to develop the sport's scope. The heart of snowboarding will always boil down to individuality and creativity.


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## Leo (Nov 24, 2009)

Less about strength and more about difference in center of gravity and strength distribution.

Women have a lower center of gravity. They are much stronger in their legs than their upper body. Where men can be really strong in both upper and lower body. I'm not talking about women being weaker here. I'm talking about the difference in strength ratio upper vs lower body.

Not sure exactly how this affects riding differences, but I place my bets there rather than just strength differences.


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## Nette (Nov 4, 2011)

cocolulu said:


> I think this is also a large part of it. Although halfpipe/park snowboarding isn't the same as alpine racing, and they have different physical demands, you still don't see nearly as large as a skill gap in skiing as you do in snowboarding even though the physical differences are largely the same.
> 
> I think there just aren't nearly as many women who are interested in taking their snowboarding to that level. This is anecdotal, but for example, among my friends, all the guys push themselves to go further and further, while all the girls are pretty content cruising down greens and blues. I think I'm one of the more serious learners among my girl friends, and even then, I have NO desire to backflip onto a rail, or double rodeo (or backflip) off of a kicker, like they show on videos that pop up here.
> 
> ...



I think you're right hihi! But why would it be that there aren't as many women who are interested in taking their snowboarding to that level and why we don't push ourselves to go further and further? 
Simply because guys want to prove themselves? They want to impress people?
I really don't know, because I think there are lots of girls who want that too. 
It's too easy to say that I think I am one of those girls, but I don't have the opportunity to prove that haha. But I think when I had lived in the mountains and could board everyday with the good guys, I would try so much more stricks. But like I said: that's easy to say because it's not what it is right now.


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## Donutz (May 12, 2010)

CheeseForSteeze said:


> This is patently false.


Glad you said it. Saved me the trouble. 

And don't forget the South African runner last year (?) who turned out to be hermaphroditic. (S)he totally blew away the field. There's a reason why the Olympic committee has rules and regs about that stuff.

Any woman who really wants to can be better than most of the people of any gender on the mountain. But when you go into competition you're competing (hopefully) against people who want it and are willing to work for it as hard as you. Given equal motivation, time, commitment and training, men will do better than women in physical sports simply becuase of the biology.

But again, so what? This is not a moral issue, or an evaluation of true worth, or anything like that. At our level (well, at my level anyway) there are so many better snowboarders that it's pointless to do anything but go out, have fun, and try to get better.


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## CheeseForSteeze (May 11, 2011)

Donutz said:


> But again, so what? This is not a moral issue, or an evaluation of true worth, or anything like that. At our level (well, at my level anyway) there are so many better snowboarders that it's pointless to do anything but go out, have fun, and try to get better.


Truth. Watching videos of 16 year old kids hucking NBD switch backside triple 1440's and 17 and 18 year olds completely blow out the competition for x-games slopestyle podium spots makes me, at an age where athletes are considered absolutely prime, feel like I might have a few grays coming through.

Then I go ride and all and forget about all that.


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## Tech420 (Jul 1, 2011)

Donutz said:


> Glad you said it. Saved me the trouble.


You both saved me the trouble :laugh: it's not worth trying to explain any more.


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## Ocho (Mar 13, 2011)

CheeseForSteeze said:


> This is patently false. There is a reason why men and women's sports are separated...
> 
> To say women in other sports compete at a man's level is untrue and paints women athletes unwilling or incapable of working hard and achieving.


I must disagree here, since other sports have been mentioned. An exception is equestrian sports. There is no division based on gender here. Both men and women compete based on level of _skill_. 

If you look at our (USET) Team riders, or the Team riders of most (competitive) countries, the majority are female. While equestrian sports in general have a greater number of female participants than male, at that level, if it were true that women were "unable" to compete at a man's level, there would be way less women dominating the sport.

It truly is a sport in which both men and women compete fairly. If anything, women have the physical advantage, as Leo's quote explains...



Leo said:


> Less about strength and more about difference in center of gravity and strength distribution.
> 
> Women have a lower center of gravity. They are much stronger in their legs than their upper body. Where men can be really strong in both upper and lower body. I'm not talking about women being weaker here. I'm talking about the difference in strength ratio upper vs lower body.
> 
> Not sure exactly how this affects riding differences, but I place my bets there rather than just strength differences.


And, add me to the list as another chick who has _never_ done a push-up from the knees


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## Justin (Jun 2, 2010)

EatRideSleep said:


> I must disagree here, since other sports have been mentioned. An exception is equestrian sports. There is no division based on gender here. Both men and women compete based on level of _skill_.
> 
> If you look at our (USET) Team riders, or the Team riders of most (competitive) countries, the majority are female. While equestrian sports in general have a greater number of female participants than male, at that level, if it were true that women were "unable" to compete at a man's level, there would be way less women dominating the sport.
> 
> ...


lol come on, the horse is the athelet. the rider is largly dependent on the animal. yes the rider is skilled and athletic, but the rider isn't jumping the rails.

a better example would be something like shooting where women have an advantage in fine motor skills, or gymnastics where they have a flexibility adv.


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## IdahoFreshies (Jul 9, 2011)

EatRideSleep said:


> I must disagree here, since other sports have been mentioned. An exception is equestrian sports. There is no division based on gender here. Both men and women compete based on level of _skill_.


seriously, thats your counter example to men being dominant at sports, horse riding, a sport where the HORSE does all of the work? well of course women are better, they weigh less so the horse does not have to work as hard to move around an extra body on them. A 225 lb guy will throw off the horse's balance and physical performance so much worse than a 145 lb woman.


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## Donutz (May 12, 2010)

Justin said:


> a better example would be something like shooting where women have an advantage in fine motor skills, or gymnastics where they have a flexibility adv.


Actually men have a distinct advantage in shooting because the higher upper-body mass and strength translates into better control of the recoil. Assuming we're talking firearms. But your main point I think is that in competitions where strength, size, and speed aren't a factor there will be little or no gender difference.

Your comment about fine motor skills gave me a chuckle though. I've noticed in discussions of gender differences that the following truism applies: All stated differences that favour men are sexist generalizations with no basis in reality; all stated differences that favour women are obviously true. :laugh:


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## Ocho (Mar 13, 2011)

Justin said:


> lol come on, the horse is the athelet. the rider is largly dependent on the animal. yes the rider is skilled and athletic, but the rider isn't jumping the rails.





IdahoFreshies said:


> seriously, thats your counter example to men being dominant at sports, horse riding, a sport where the HORSE does all of the work? well of course women are better, they weigh less so the horse does not have to work as hard to move around an extra body on them. A 225 lb guy will throw off the horse's balance and physical performance so much worse than a 145 lb woman.


I thought the horse factor might come up. 

While I completely agree the horse is moreso the athlete, in this case, the athleticism and talent of the horse doesn't matter. If you take a female rider and a male rider, and they compete the same horse, the rider of greater skill will dominate. True, the rider isn't "jumping the rails" or riding the test, but _the rider influences the horse_. Set a horse free in a stadium course of 5-foot plus jumps, or a dressage ring, and the horse will likely meander around or just stand there :laugh: Or, hop on an Olympic level horse. If you don't know what you're doing, the horse will not perform to its potential or training. 

Weight of the (skilled) rider doesn't factor like you might think, apart from racing. But I'm talking about Olympic level equestrain sport. There are lighter and heavier riders, sure, but it's their skill and athleticism affecting and navigating ~1200lbs of horse. 

I get why people think it is easier than it appears, or that it's the horse doing all the work. The appearance of "ease" is a goal in most disciplines. Unless you've actually ridden (and I'm not talking about "tourist" kind of riding on trails or beaches where the horse knows the drill), it's easy to underestimate the rider's ability and influence on the horse.

Think of it this way: It's almost like saying how in snowboarding, rider>board.


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## jyuen (Dec 16, 2007)

EatRideSleep said:


> I thought the horse factor might come up.
> 
> While I completely agree the horse is moreso the athlete, in this case, the athleticism and talent of the horse doesn't matter. If you take a female rider and a male rider, and they compete the same horse, the rider of greater skill will dominate. True, the rider isn't "jumping the rails" or riding the test, but _the rider influences the horse_. Set a horse free in a stadium course of 5-foot plus jumps, or a dressage ring, and the horse will likely meander around or just stand there :laugh: Or, hop on an Olympic level horse. If you don't know what you're doing, the horse will not perform to its potential or training.
> 
> ...


do equestrian's ride male or female horses?


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## IdahoFreshies (Jul 9, 2011)

jyuen said:


> do equestrian's ride male or female horses?


:laugh::laugh::laugh:


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## Justin (Jun 2, 2010)

Donutz said:


> Actually men have a distinct advantage in shooting because the higher upper-body mass and strength translates into better control of the recoil. Assuming we're talking firearms. But your main point I think is that in competitions where strength, size, and speed aren't a factor there will be little or no gender difference.
> 
> Your comment about fine motor skills gave me a chuckle though. I've noticed in discussions of gender differences that the following truism applies: All stated differences that favour men are sexist generalizations with no basis in reality; all stated differences that favour women are obviously true. :laugh:


lol ya back in university these discussions were epic (i play basketball), some of the girls would get so mad.

im sure it would be easier to make the guys mad if you were comparing something that women had a distinct advantage in... like dish washing. AHHHAHAHAHHA sorry i couldn't resist. i don't actually mean it. i do dishes all the time.


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## Snownad (Oct 17, 2011)

jyuen said:


> do equestrian's ride male or female horses?


This lol. :laugh:


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## Tech420 (Jul 1, 2011)

Horse racing? Are you fucking serious? Shit I bet that there are more women professional checkers players too. How about something like car or motorcycle racing? Nope even the 4 foot nothing butch can't win a Nascar race. Don't even get me started on REAL racing(sorry ******** going in a circle isn't racing). I think that is more so that women can't drive than lack of physical ability.


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## Ocho (Mar 13, 2011)

jyuen said:


> do equestrian's ride male or female horses?


We ride both male and female horses (stallions, geldings, and mares respectively).



Tech420 said:


> Horse racing?


I'm more specifically talking about Olympic equestrian sport disciplines, NOT horse racing (as I mentioned above...). However, there are female jockeys and trainers in racing, but there are less women than men in horse racing. 

Regardless, both men and women compete together (even in racing). There isn't a division of the sport based on human gender, which is my main point.


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## CheeseForSteeze (May 11, 2011)

EatRideSleep said:


> I thought the horse factor might come up.
> 
> While I completely agree the horse is moreso the athlete, in this case, the athleticism and talent of the horse doesn't matter. If you take a female rider and a male rider, and they compete the same horse, the rider of greater skill will dominate. True, the rider isn't "jumping the rails" or riding the test, but _the rider influences the horse_. Set a horse free in a stadium course of 5-foot plus jumps, or a dressage ring, and the horse will likely meander around or just stand there :laugh: Or, hop on an Olympic level horse. If you don't know what you're doing, the horse will not perform to its potential or training.
> 
> ...


To what degree does equestrianism require athleticism? Of course they make it look "easy" but that's irrelevant. If I go on youtube and look up trick beer pong shots, they make them look easy, too. That doesn't mean it requires athletic talent outside a very small scope of the total range of attributes encompassing athleticism.

Not to sound offensive, but I doubt Equestrianism requires athleticism to the scope or breadth of even sport/activities such as golf or table tennis, much less major team sports.

This whole debate is a bit silly and now devolved into semantics. Men, biologically (on the average) simply are built to do things which require great physical exertion. It's pretty simple. It's almost as plain as saying "Men are better at having penises than women."


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## Tech420 (Jul 1, 2011)

CheeseForSteeze said:


> To what degree does equestrianism require athleticism? Of course they make it look "easy" but that's irrelevant. If I go on youtube and look up trick beer pong shots, they make them look easy, too. That doesn't mean it requires athletic talent outside a very small scope of the total range of attributes encompassing athleticism.
> 
> Not to sound offensive, but I doubt Equestrianism requires athleticism to the scope or breadth of even sport/activities such as golf or table tennis, much less major team sports.
> 
> This whole debate is a bit silly and now devolved into semantics. Men, biologically (on the average) simply are built to do things which require great physical exertion. It's pretty simple. It's almost as plain as saying "Men are better at having penises than women."


I knew a fat chick that won all types of competitions for it.....you don't have to be athletic in any way.


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## mastershake (Jan 9, 2012)

Tech420 said:


> Horse racing? Are you fucking serious? Shit I bet that there are more women professional checkers players too. How about something like car or motorcycle racing? Nope even the 4 foot nothing butch can't win a Nascar race. Don't even get me started on REAL racing(sorry ******** going in a circle isn't racing). I think that is more so that women can't drive than lack of physical ability.


lol i didn't want to get into this, but i have to correct you. 

bet you didn't know that NASCAR has 2 (yes a whopping TWO) road races in its schedule, where they don't just turn left. Infineon Raceway and Watkins Glen. Also the sport of NASCAR isn't really about turning left its about strategy...you know like a long chess game (when to pit, how much air to tweak, roll bar tweaking, restrictors..etc etc) there is an enormous amount of tinkering that goes on in NASCAR to make each car better than the other car (since they are all the same by rules). Also believe it or not even turning left can be different for different drivers, it all depends on the line you take and when you apex a corner.

Besides that NASCAR has a lot of international drivers. Juan Pablo Montoya (former F1 champ), Marcos Ambrose (former V8 SuperCar champ), Kimi Raikkonen ( F1 and World Rally)...and the list goes on. 

I am not a huge fan of NASCAR and i'm def not a ******* (born and raised in Ukraine and grew up in Brooklyn, NY), but I respect the sport for what it is. Just saying don't be ignorant of another sport.

/rant

carry on


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## CheeseForSteeze (May 11, 2011)

Infineon is a bitch of a course, too. Also, JPM was never an F1 champ. He won the Indianapolis 500 back in 2000 during his only IRL season and had a Champ Car (CART) Championship a year or two before that. I think he may have an F3000 championship, too.

He is also 2/3 for the Triple Crown of Motorsport (Monaco Gran Prix, Indianapolis 500) needing only win at Le Mans to complete it.


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## Ocho (Mar 13, 2011)

CheeseForSteeze said:


> To what degree does equestrianism require athleticism? Of course they make it look "easy" but that's irrelevant. If I go on youtube and look up trick beer pong shots, they make them look easy, too. That doesn't mean it requires athletic talent outside a very small scope of the total range of attributes encompassing athleticism.
> 
> Not to sound offensive, but I doubt Equestrianism requires athleticism to the scope or breadth of even sport/activities such as golf or table tennis, much less major team sports.


It requires athleticism to a great degree. Beer pong trick shots...lol 

I've ridden horses since I was three. I've played golf and table tennis. In the latter two, I never broken a sweat or had an increase in heart rate. I've had some of the most intense physical workouts in the saddle, however. And keep in mind, I haven't competed at the Olympic level.

Steffen Peters is a US Olympic dressage rider. The following article outlines his gym workout routine. Here's a quote from the article, from a guy who's been to the Olympics. On a horse 

From http://www.jlbodyconditioning.com/press/Dressage-Today-March.pdf


> Steffen Peters, _Dressage Today, March 2009_ "It helps tremendously to be in shape," he explains. "This is an Olympic sport. It's not only the horses that should be athletes. The riders should be, as well."


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## mastershake (Jan 9, 2012)

CheeseForSteeze said:


> Infineon is a bitch of a course, too. Also, JPM was never an F1 champ. He won the Indianapolis 500 back in 2000 during his only IRL season and had a Champ Car (CART) Championship a year or two before that. I think he may have an F3000 championship, too.
> 
> He is also 2/3 for the Triple Crown of Motorsport (Monaco Gran Prix, Indianapolis 500) needing only win at Le Mans to complete it.


you're right. i got my facts wrong he did however participate in F1 for a couple of years, but the point still stands...

and yeah Infineon is retarded...i am going to Watkins Glen this season (May 4-6) can't fucking wait....we should have a thread on racing


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## CheeseForSteeze (May 11, 2011)

EatRideSleep said:


> It requires athleticism to a great degree. Beer pong trick shots...lol
> 
> I've ridden horses since I was three. I've played golf and table tennis. In the latter two, I never broken a sweat or had an increase in heart rate. I've had some of the most intense physical workouts in the saddle, however. And keep in mind, I haven't competed at the Olympic level.
> 
> From http://www.jlbodyconditioning.com/press/Dressage-Today-March.pdf


I don't think breaking a sweat is a very good metric of athleticism. For example, golf requires extreme amounts of dexterity and power but low amounts of strength, athletic speed and moderate endurance. Playing golf at a high level could mean playing 32 or more holes in a day, no easy feat for your back muscles to endure.

Judging by the workout routines presented in that issue of Dressage Today, the workouts are lots of core strengthening for muscular endurance. He even states that he was broken for several days after a 400 meter race with his soccer playing friend. Obviously, being athletic will give you an advantage over another equestrian who isn't and certainly won't present a disadvantage. However, to what degree is athleticism important over skill?

To really see (a watered down version) of what a man competing directly against a woman would look like, go watch Cristiane Santos fights. She has (artificial) androgen levels of approach that of a man and she completely wrecked her opposition almost on physical talent alone, though it should be noted she is skilled in many disciplines of combat.

I'm sorry, but I do not buy that equestrianism requires athleticism on the same scope that major sports do and therefore I reject it being a good counter example of women competing directly with men in arenas (sports) require a great deal of athleticism.


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## CheeseForSteeze (May 11, 2011)

mastershake said:


> you're right. i got my facts wrong he did however participate in F1 for a couple of years, but the point still stands...
> 
> and yeah Infineon is retarded...i am going to Watkins Glen this season (May 4-6) can't fucking wait....we should have a thread on racing


I think he went to NASCAR because 1) he was getting too old to compete in Formula 1 (wtf is Schumacher doing??) 2) he had a good avenue in being part of the Chip Ganassi racing team. It's been fun watching him compete and have success during the Sprint/Nextel cup series.

I hope to one day go to the Monaco GP, but that's quite costly. I should have done it after graduating like my other friends did, lol.

I just hate Infineon because there were always races there on Gran Turismo 4 and it's just not very friendly for closed wheel sports cars, and especially not for P1 cars. Damn blind over the hill corners. <3 Laguna Seca, though.


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## mastershake (Jan 9, 2012)

CheeseForSteeze said:


> I think he went to NASCAR because 1) he was getting too old to compete in Formula 1 (wtf is Schumacher doing??) 2) he had a good avenue in being part of the Chip Ganassi racing team. It's been fun watching him compete and have success during the Sprint/Nextel cup series.
> 
> I hope to one day go to the Monaco GP, but that's quite costly. I should have done it after graduating like my other friends did, lol.
> 
> I just hate Infineon because there were always races there on Gran Turismo 4 and it's just not very friendly for closed wheel sports cars, and especially not for P1 cars. Damn blind over the hill corners. <3 Laguna Seca, though.


Laguna Seca is an all time favorite, i hope to track it one day in real life. I am planning on going to Canadian Grand Prix this year as well as when F1 comes to NJ...fist pumping at the track? why not...


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## CheeseForSteeze (May 11, 2011)

The Corkscrew is wicked ... kind of like the Chad's Gap of auto racing. I read an article about how they built that track. They basically let the bulldozer crew just go with the terrain and then drafted the track after they had it leveled. Pretty cool, natural flow with the hills of California.


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## Ocho (Mar 13, 2011)

CheeseForSteeze said:


> I don't think breaking a sweat is a very good metric of athleticism. For example, golf requires extreme amounts of dexterity and power but low amounts of strength, athletic speed and moderate endurance. Playing golf at a high level could mean playing 32 or more holes in a day, no easy feat for your back muscles to endure.
> 
> Judging by the workout routines presented in that issue of Dressage Today, the workouts are lots of core strengthening for muscular endurance. He even states that he was broken for several days after a 400 meter race with his soccer playing friend. Obviously, being athletic will give you an advantage over another equestrian who isn't and certainly won't present a disadvantage. However, to what degree is athleticism important over skill?
> 
> ...


True, breaking a sweat isn't a good metric. An out of shape person will break a sweat more readily than an in shape one. I was using it as (my) example to indicate the required effort from my personal experience in each activity.

I'm not a golfer. However, my understanding is that a strong core will give a golfer an edge as well? That is what a golfer explained to me when remarking on how well I did my first time out (srtrong core from riding horses, which is essential in riding horses, and why Peters' workouts involve a lot of core strengthening). 

In riding, I feel athleticism combined with skill go hand in hand on the back of a horse. You can toss Michael Phelps on a horse, yet he won't do as well as a less athletic person who has riding skill. Especially at the higher levels, athleticism does matter as it influences stamina and the physical components that execute skills. 

Not selling anything :laugh: but again, my point was and is that equestrian sports are ones in which men and women compete against each other, and there is no division of the sport based on gender.

EDIT: I watch MMA but prefer watching men compete. I've never enjoyed seeing Cristiane Santos or other MMA chicks fight. Same goes for boxing.


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## IdahoFreshies (Jul 9, 2011)

Can we please get off the horse riding kick? It is totaly irrelevant and proves absolutly nothing.


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## mastershake (Jan 9, 2012)

IdahoFreshies said:


> Can we please get off the horse riding kick? It is totaly irrelevant and proves absolutly nothing.


i think this whole topic is irrelevant..who cares? just go out there and shred to the best of your abilities, you can't argue nature.


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## CheeseForSteeze (May 11, 2011)

Here's some closed wheel fun to at least make it interesting. Greatest Group C car, ever:


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## mastershake (Jan 9, 2012)

man those straights at Le Mans are deadly....


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## cocolulu (Jan 21, 2011)

Nette said:


> I think you're right hihi! But why would it be that there aren't as many women who are interested in taking their snowboarding to that level and why we don't push ourselves to go further and further?
> Simply because guys want to prove themselves? They want to impress people?
> I really don't know, because I think there are lots of girls who want that too.
> It's too easy to say that I think I am one of those girls, but I don't have the opportunity to prove that haha. But I think when I had lived in the mountains and could board everyday with the good guys, I would try so much more stricks. But like I said: that's easy to say because it's not what it is right now.


It's great that you aim high. Hopefully we see you taking women's snowboarding to a new level 

As for others, I'm not sure I can answer that. I guess society kind of shapes our values in different ways than men. I don't know many women that are really really ambitious about sports to the degree that men are... like they sit around and fantasize about being star football players or snowboarders. So a lot of women set different priorities. Of course, there are some women who are ambitious with sports, but overall, you might have like 10,000 men competing for some event, constantly struggling to come up with new moves to make the qualifications, while you might have, 5,000 women (with admittedly less physical ability) competing in the women's category. When you have more people competing, you have a bigger chance that someone with good natural ability is applying their gifts to the art. You're probably going to get a significant difference in skill compared to a smaller pool of talent. I'm just making up numbers.


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