# ThirtyTwo TM-2's in my true Mondo Size: extreme top of the foot pain. Is it normal before heat molding?



## drblast (Feb 28, 2017)

TM-2's break in for me perfectly, but for the first few days they make my feet numb within 45 minutes due to pressure on the top of the foot. Heat molding definitely helps, but even then I have to loosen them mid-day to get some feeling back. After five days, that goes away. I should emphasize that this is not "pain" but numbness soon after lacing them up.

Other things to try: super thin socks. Like business socks. I'd say if you don't feel an improvement with business socks on, you might want to return the boots and try a different brand instead of heat molding.

Also, it's not apparent but on the TM-2 when you tighten the laces between the upper and lower section, there is a system inside that forces the tongue down onto your foot. Look at how the tongue is attached and figure out how that works. Those first few days I leave the lower section completely loose and cross the laces around each other to lock them before lacing the upper tightly. This helps ease the tongue pressure.

But take my advice with a grain of salt, I have a foot that's fairly medium and standard in most ways. Then again, if you're a US10 Mens and you keep them and they don't work out, I'd be interested in buying a slightly used set for a demo discount.


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## RayzTheRoof (Mar 10, 2014)

Yeah I wear extremely thin darn tough snow socks. I tried the boots on again and I just can't stand it. I never felt pain or tightness this extreme before, and the top of my foot is actively pushing the liner tongue up and out of where it should rest. These must not be the right fit for me I guess, I tried pulling the tongues out from the boot as much as possible just to see if I still felt pain and I did.

Also the TM-2's I got have dual boa instead of traditional laces. I wonder if I have a high instep but whenever I look into info for that, everything I found is about arches and not instep. I think my arches are normal but the top of my foot might just be too high.

I had Salomon LoFi's in the same size that I had to return due to a design flaw that makes the boot unusable, but they were tight and comfortable right out of the box and felt perfect for my foot. Vans Infuse also in half a size up were great, but still had heel lift so I am going to try Vans Aura Pro's in my true size.


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## drblast (Feb 28, 2017)

What's the design flaw in LoFi Salomons?

Salomon tend to have a slightly narrow feel but if you fit in them as a brand they work great and are extremely comfortable. Maybe another model of Salomons would work?


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## RayzTheRoof (Mar 10, 2014)

I made a post about it initially but no one seemed to know about it. The str8jkt system, which is the _only_ harness/mechanism holding the liner in the boot and is designed for maximum heel hold, was too small. The red material that makes up the harness only reached about halfway over the top of the foot. This isn't an issue with my foot either, the material could not cover the top of the foot area even with no foot in the boot. Here was my post and photo about it:









Post:
Salomon Lo Fi: Is the Boa Str8Jkt system supposed to be...

It either is a design issue this year, or a manufacturing issue on this size (7). Both the left and right boot had the issue so I see it as probably a design issue and not just a random defect. They fit so comfortably and I wanted to love them so much. But they just had a major flaw that prevents them from being used in any way. From what I have seen and researched, that red strap is supposed to completely cover the foot. But when this is tightened down, it's still too loose while providing severe pain from the areas not covered by the red strap.

This is the coverage you should get.:









This video shows how big the harness really his and how it should be:


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## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

RayzTheRoof said:


> Yeah I wear extremely thin darn tough snow socks. I tried the boots on again and I just can't stand it. I never felt pain or tightness this extreme before, and the top of my foot is actively pushing the liner tongue up and out of where it should rest. These must not be the right fit for me I guess, I tried pulling the tongues out from the boot as much as possible just to see if I still felt pain and I did.
> 
> Also the TM-2's I got have dual boa instead of traditional laces. I wonder if I have a high instep but whenever I look into info for that, everything I found is about arches and not instep. I think my arches are normal but the top of my foot might just be too high.
> 
> I had Salomon LoFi's in the same size that I had to return due to a design flaw that makes the boot unusable, but they were tight and comfortable right out of the box and felt perfect for my foot. Vans Infuse also in half a size up were great, but still had heel lift so I am going to try Vans Aura Pro's in my true size.


K ray, have you done any boot fitting with the TM's? The inner laces are to hold your shin...thus the foot back in to the heel pocket. Have you tried pushing the liner tongue down instead of pulling it up?...it might sound counter-intuitive but try it. 

Take a side profile pic...sounds like you might have a high instep and high arch. Ime, first, you definitely want an insole that supports and matches your high arch. Secondly you will need to deal with the high instep (I have both). So first get some self-adhesive boot fitting foam that is 1/4" or 3.8" thick. Cut a patch that will fit over your instep where there is pressure. Then stick that patch on your instep and cover with a very thin sock or nylon to hold the patch in place. Heat up the liners per the usual recommended method...rice or low temp oven...goggle it. When it is done cooking. Put your liner in the boot, then put in your correct insole, and then your nylon covered feet with the patch. Then tighten the inner laces and then both boas....snug but not hella tight. And stand in an athletic stance with knees bent in your standard with and angles (not with the board on). Stand quietly in the athletic stance until everything is cool...about 15-20 minutes. Your feet with the boot fitting patch will be very tight...your feet might go numb and be in pain...frick'n ignore the weakness and just take it. When the boots are cool, remove your feet, take off the patch and then put your feet back in...it should be alot more comfortable.

Then go ride...but know that 32 liners continue to pack out and you will need to add foam bits to the outside of the liners to keep everything feeling snug and giving you a performance fit. Boot fitting and liner mods are an on-going process....it is not a 1 and done. If you think it is easy and simple....get another sport like ping pong.


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## ridethecliche (Feb 27, 2019)

Asking again if you've ridden any Ride boots yet. The lasso feel amazing to me and I've gone through a ton of stuff. You might also like the vans verse. They seemed to space for a big instep since the heel hold wasn't great for me and I have a small instep. They were being cleared out by sierra recently.

Worth a shot!


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## RayzTheRoof (Mar 10, 2014)

Sorry I must have missed the Ride rec! Maybe next season if the Vans Aura Pro work out for me. I don't think my instep is high, will try to post pics. But I took out out the tm-2 liner and isolated the issue to the tongue foam just being _extremely_ stiff. The rest of the liner feels like typical liner, but the tongue is like stone. Is that normal? Figure heat mold would fix anyway, but I really am not going to risk heat molding these if I know Vans already fit me much better based on my experience with Infuse.


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## ridethecliche (Feb 27, 2019)

I don't recall the tongue liner being particularly stiff on the TM2's I've owned and I'm on my second pair right now. Are you sure it's not the tongue itself? Can you replicate the issue by tightening just the liner on your foot?


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## RayzTheRoof (Mar 10, 2014)

Yeah that's what I said I did, that's how I know it's the liner lol. I can pull the shell liner pretty far away from the liner and notice that it was not what was causing problems. I took the liner out and tried it on with no shell and it was extremely uncomfortable. The tongue of the liner is stiff even if just touching it with my hand. The rest of the liner is solf and malleable, while the tongue feels like it's frozen. Maybe it was stored poorly in a warehouse for a long time. But it seems odd to have only a liner on my foot, with no tightening or laces because this is outside the shell, be so uncomfortable and downright painful.


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## ridethecliche (Feb 27, 2019)

Is it the same for both liners or is it just the one? If they're uneven, then that's likely an issue with the liner. I'll double check mine when I get home tomorrow but this sounds very weird to me.


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## RayzTheRoof (Mar 10, 2014)

Both definitely. I think it's intentionally like this and would pack out or be fixed with heat molding, but my foot feels zero hints of comfort in this thing. I know boots should be snug but I also know they shouldn't be painful all around your foot before riding or molding. The other pain is just from the general tightness but the material does not feel comfortable. Like a Vans or Salomon liner in the same size will be just as tight but not feel like death to my feet.


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## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

RayzTheRoof said:


> Both definitely. I think it's intentionally like this and would pack out or be fixed with heat molding, but my foot feels zero hints of comfort in this thing. I know boots should be snug but I also know they shouldn't be painful all around your foot before riding or molding. The other pain is just from the general tightness but the material does not feel comfortable. Like a Vans or Salomon liner in the same size will be just as tight but not feel like death to my feet.


Intuition liners are stiff and feel hard when new and it takes 5-6 days of riding to get them feeling good...even with heat moulding.


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

I'm also trying really hard to get 32 TM2 XLT and MTB fit my feet, high arch, high instep. The problem with them is that they a) have a low toe box and b) the stiff tongue presses right on the arch when one's shin presses on the tongue if on topside edge. IMO, those boots are just not made for pol with high arch.

However, I don't have much alternatives, as 32 so far is the only brand which makes women's boots suitable for BC, so I'm doomed to tinker with what I have.

Step 1 was to undo the lower eyelets of liner and shell lacing to relief pressure on arch. Thin custom insoles and thin socks. Next step was to hack the liner and cut out foam over the arch. These steps made the boots quite endurable, while riding, but toes still get numb on topside traverses as the tongue squeezes blood flow off.

Last step now was to make a carbon tunnel which I put between liner and shell which absorbs this stupid tongue squeeze pressure. Still in experiment phase 

However, if one experiences this arch crush from the stiff tongue and would have other boot models as alternatives at hand, I'd simply avoid those 32 boots. They are great with their features, I love how stiff and endurable they are, but they are not for every foot.


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

Yeah it's your "true mondo size" but is the boot itself dedigned and built to "true mondo size" and your foot shape ? I don't know. And dont care either.

The fit should improve with heat molding. But my experience is that type of poor fit is there long-term... so I would just ditch those boots unless you can make them fit more reasonably with simple stuff.

I have high arch as well, but 32 are the only boots that hold my heels. Have to learn and figure out how to avoid the pressure at the top. The Elite liner is more roomy so should have less overall pressure... this ok for higher volume feet, but for my feet im super happy with the TM2 liner. 

Anyways... see if you can get the fit to be reasonable at home. Then a boot fit. If it doesnt work after heat fit... get rid of them because they just wont work.


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## RayzTheRoof (Mar 10, 2014)

Yeah for sure not worth the trouble I think since I already know other boots that don't have this issue for me. The low toe box was certainly noticeable to me. I'll see how the Vans Aura Pro goes.

On that note, I hate that companies upgrade _everything_ as price goes up. For example, the Vans Infuse has their top of the line most comfortable liner, but that boot is pretty stiff and not for everyone's style. Their more freestyle focused boots cost less, but also have a liner that is the next step down, which has slightly less comfort and features.


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## drblast (Feb 28, 2017)

RayzTheRoof said:


> Yeah for sure not worth the trouble I think since I already know other boots that don't have this issue for me. The low toe box was certainly noticeable to me. I'll see how the Vans Aura Pro goes.
> 
> On that note, I hate that companies upgrade _everything_ as price goes up. For example, the Vans Infuse has their top of the line most comfortable liner, but that boot is pretty stiff and not for everyone's style. Their more freestyle focused boots cost less, but also have a liner that is the next step down, which has slightly less comfort and features.


I've found, at least with ThirtyTwo, comfort decreases as you go up in price/performance. The Lashed boots are like comfy slippers, TM-2's break in to feel good, but are stiffer and more responsive, TM-2 XLT are stiff and very uncomfortable until broken in. Haven't tried the TM-3's yet.

I'd probably be in Lashed boots if I didn't care about the response, and just count on buying a new pair each season.


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

drblast said:


> ..., TM-2 XLT are stiff and very uncomfortable until broken in.


They break in? Ever? 
Mine seem as stiff as on day one, after 3 seasons splitboarding and bootpacking, lol. Maybe memory is just deceiving me and they were much worse 😁


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## RayzTheRoof (Mar 10, 2014)

I'm still mad about the Salomons, I'll try them again next year if the Vans work out t his year. Can't hurt to have 2 pairs.


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## drblast (Feb 28, 2017)

neni said:


> They break in? Ever?
> Mine seem as stiff as on day one, after 3 seasons splitboarding and bootpacking, lol. Maybe memory is just deceiving me and they were much worse 😁


I have three pairs of TM-2 XLT's. I didn't think they broke in either, but I put on some new ones after 75 days in my old ones and the difference is massive.

It's "oh wow these fit like a glove and my feet are warm" vs. "I can't get my feet in without a hammer."


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## ridethecliche (Feb 27, 2019)

I love the TM3 shell but the liner isn't for me. I'm going to try them with the tm2 liner tomorrow and cross my fingers that it helps. 

Id wear the lasso instead but I to add a bunch of foam to them.


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## RayzTheRoof (Mar 10, 2014)

Vans Aura Pro arrived. Fits well, no pain on the top of my foot...but....extremely poor heel hold for me. I feel like I am out of options almost -_-


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## ridethecliche (Feb 27, 2019)

Try the vans verse or ride lassos yet?


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## RayzTheRoof (Mar 10, 2014)

No, I have to order direct from the brand for those and shipping is going to take forever :/ might try now i guess. Missing this whole season and might as well just give up til next year lmao


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## RayzTheRoof (Mar 10, 2014)

I tried the TM-2's on again because I was so distracted by the tightness and pain that i didn't check heel hold. I can easily pull my heel out and if hold my boot down and stand on my toes. Weird, my ankle sucks ass.


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## ridethecliche (Feb 27, 2019)

RayzTheRoof said:


> No, I have to order direct from the brand for those and shipping is going to take forever :/ might try now i guess. Missing this whole season and might as well just give up til next year lmao


You said that two weeks ago too!

Honestly, just order a crap ton of boots on a CC and return them within the window. You can also find them on other retailers, no? 

If you're looking for the 'perfect' fit, odds are you're not going to be satisfied by something right out of the box. My lassos were fine for day 1 and 2, but I knew I was going to have to add foam and modify the shell/liner to get things to be where I like them. It's kind of like a cat chasing its tail.... You ride them for a few days and then reposition foam etc if you're that finnicky. I'm hoping that the changes I just made tonight will last me the rest of the season for the most part. Then you re-evaluate the next season because your biomechanics and feet change ever so slightly that it might change how things go together.

I feel fortunate that someone here gave me the rec of trying the TM3 shells with TM2 liners. That experiment has also been promising... but like.... I have 3 pairs of boots right now and I'm mixing and matching and adding foam to try to get things how I like them.


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## RayzTheRoof (Mar 10, 2014)

I found Lasso Pros online in a 7. Ordered that, K2 Maysis, and Burton photon. Hopefully one pair fits. I heard the Maysis is not very durable and falls apart fast though


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## ridethecliche (Feb 27, 2019)

Just know that you might have to add foam and modify the boots to get something super dialed in. I've had to do that to every boot I've ever owned. It was annoying till I realized that no manufacturer could do it as well as me unless I got custom boots and liners.

I'm curious what you think about the pros. I might move to the fuse in the future because the lace plus slime tongue combo might be awesome.


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## RayzTheRoof (Mar 10, 2014)

Yeah, I feel the same. But I am also in the boat where every boot in my size causes numbness and pain within 10 minutes, especially on top of the foot. I might have to go up half a size and start adding foam to compensate.

I'll let you know how I feel about the slime tongue when the Lasso Pro arrives, But I probably dig it. I love easier tongue velcro systems with liners, like that tongue and the way Vans does it.


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## RayzTheRoof (Mar 10, 2014)

Also might cancel on the Burton Boa. It's last year's model but priced the same as this year.


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## WigMar (Mar 17, 2019)

ridethecliche said:


> I might move to the fuse in the future because the lace plus slime tongue combo might be awesome.


I think it's a great combination myself. I'll be ordering another set of Fuse next year.


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## RayzTheRoof (Mar 10, 2014)

Just gonna take a moment to again say I wish the Salomon Lo Fi's didn't have a defect, it's by far my favorite boot I've ever tried on. Don't want to order the same size from Salomon and wait a week again only to find out it's not a one-off issue.


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## ridethecliche (Feb 27, 2019)

RayzTheRoof said:


> Just gonna take a moment to again say I wish the Salomon Lo Fi's didn't have a defect, it's by far my favorite boot I've ever tried on. Don't want to order the same size from Salomon and wait a week again only to find out it's not a one-off issue.


If you like it so much it's probably worth trying again. 



WigMar said:


> I think it's a great combination myself. I'll be ordering another set of Fuse next year.


I have a line on a set for a great price but they're not returnable. I expect them to fit because it's the same liner and last as the lasso but like... I have two sets of shoes right now that kinda work so feels a bit superfluous to add a third... Says the guy with like 6 boards....


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## bighuyou (Mar 25, 2019)

Same happened to me!
I initially got a pair of DC Mora, but it's toe box was too narrow for me. So I got a pair of ThirtyTwo TM2 Double Boa. The tounge was pressing my right foot too much. To be more specific, it's extensor digitorum i think. 

However, I got 2020 model with discount though. OP, are your thirtytwo boots 2021 version? Maybe it is just how it's designed. I own a pair of 4 years old Thirtytwo dual boa, but never had this issue. 

I am going to bring to evo for boot fitting and ask weather DC Mora or ThirtyTwo TM2 gonna break in more easily for me.


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## drblast (Feb 28, 2017)

Yesterday I got a new set of last year TM3's on sale to ride next season. I measure a 28cm, maybe just a hair over on one foot, so I go with a US 10.

It's difficult to get my feet into the boots. They are SNUG, as in every toe is touching the front without wiggle room. There is no immediate pain, and no numbness when I tighten them up and leave them on for 20 minutes. (This is not true for the TM2 or TM2 XLT, with the XLT's cutting off circulation very quickly. There is no pain and the numbness is fixed with a heat mold.)

My arch in my left foot gets sore after 20 minutes in them and I'm experimenting with different footbeds to fix that. Best so far are the stock insoles with the Large arch supports which were more comfortable than my Remind Cush from my TM2's that work great there. I don't feel the need to immediately replace these, but I might try some Remind Medics I had in another set of boots.

I think I could ride in these boots as-is if I took them off to massage my feet after an hour or so, and I think after 5 days in them they'd be comfortable. Strapping in with them takes the pressure off of my toes enough to where they're still hitting the front but it's not uncomfortable.

So for me, at the upper end of the Mondo size, they are perfectly uncomfortably snug out of the box. I'm pretty sure with a heat mold and 2-3 days of riding they're going to feel like they were made out of liquid poured over my feet that hardened. That's the fit that I go for.

I'd say if you're feeling any pain more dramatic than that, it's probably worth searching for a different boot.


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## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

Pussy Foot...ya ain't Puss-In-Boots...well maybe ya are, but without the swagger....get yer ballz out of your purse! Your peds are fucked! So are you going to operate on your feet or your boots? A performance fit and slipper comfort right out of the box is extremely rare...I'd guess less than 2%. So you need to decide where to start...instep or heel hold both can be dealt with. Boot fitting is a process and a progression that ime is ongoing through out the life of any boot. In fact after riding this past Friday...third season in my AT boots, I was developing maybe 3/8" of heel rise; so I added a 1/4" foam strip 1/4"x 2" above the heel to make the pocket a tad deeper...hopefully it should work.


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## ridethecliche (Feb 27, 2019)

drblast said:


> Yesterday I got a new set of last year TM3's on sale to ride next season. I measure a 28cm, maybe just a hair over on one foot, so I go with a US 10.
> 
> It's difficult to get my feet into the boots. They are SNUG, as in every toe is touching the front without wiggle room. There is no immediate pain, and no numbness when I tighten them up and leave them on for 20 minutes. (This is not true for the TM2 or TM2 XLT, with the XLT's cutting off circulation very quickly. There is no pain and the numbness is fixed with a heat mold.)
> 
> ...


Throw in the liners from your TM2's or XLT's. I really don't like the TM3 liner. The fit is very finnicky for me fwiw.


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## drblast (Feb 28, 2017)

ridethecliche said:


> Throw in the liners from your TM2's or XLT's. I really don't like the TM3 liner. The fit is very finnicky for me fwiw.


Oh I'm really happy with the TM3's so far. I think I'll like them more than the Tm2's because they're more snug.


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## ridethecliche (Feb 27, 2019)

Hah, I actually feel like the TM2 liners are more snug since the foam is thicker and you can sink into it a bit instead of ending up in the harder part of the liner.


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## drblast (Feb 28, 2017)

ridethecliche said:


> Hah, I actually feel like the TM2 liners are more snug since the foam is thicker and you can sink into it a bit instead of ending up in the harder part of the liner.


Yeah initially that's the case but my Tm2's pack out over time so they're ready to be replaced by day 50 or I have to add foam and all that jazz. I'm thinking I might get some more mileage out of these and they'll stay more consistent.


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## ridethecliche (Feb 27, 2019)

Yeah, these liners shouldn't pack out. I just get really bad toe bang in those liners.

Got a bit better with a bontex board, but they just fit a bit bigger imho. Who the F even knows...


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## RayzTheRoof (Mar 10, 2014)

ridethecliche said:


> Yeah, these liners shouldn't pack out. I just get really bad toe bang in those liners.
> 
> Got a bit better with a bontex board, but they just fit a bit bigger imho. Who the F even knows...


So I got the Burton Photon Boa and Ride Lasso Pro today. Both are eh. Photon pinches super tight and stiff around the heel, but it's way too low and way too painful. It's an odd grip position and my heel can slip out super easily.

The Lasso Pro's are pretty nice and I like wearing them more, but it has almost nothing internally gripping my heel. Not sure how to properly test it without actually riding though.

I triied on the Burton Photons again and it's more comfortable than the first time, and has better hold than the Lasso Pro's. Construction quality is also 10/10 compared to the Lasso Pro's. Lassos got uneven sloppily glued on soles, cuffs and tongue different shapes and not centered, velcro on one line missing a stitching, and some stitching on one liner has a loose thread. That all will probably amount to not many issues over the lifetime of the boot, but I hate paying $350+ for a pair of boots and not having the quality of construction to show for it. Meanwhile the Burtons are immaculate, and also I love that they use metal rings for the liner harness. It makes the lace slip through easily and you never need a pull tab to loosen those laces, your foot just slips right out.

The Burtons are pretty stiff though and the tongue of the liner was almost painful when I tried leaning my shins forward. I might stick with the Lassos this season if the K2 Maysis isn't any better tomorrow. 

Also, the Lasso Pro liner is pretty sweet. That wrap around is convenient, but I'm always worried about a liner that has no harness in the shell. Over time I worry about it being too loose.

How do you check for heel hold by the way? Usually I don't get any when I just stand like I am riding and lean into a fake toeside turn. But if I take my foot off the ground and point my toes, I can feel how easily I slip out of a boot, and usually it feels super loose. That's my go-to test. The Lasso Pros were much looser in that regard.


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## ridethecliche (Feb 27, 2019)

There's never really a time when you're doing calf raises when you're strapped into a board, is there?


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## RayzTheRoof (Mar 10, 2014)

Nah but it's to simulate the weight of the board and bindings I guess


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## ridethecliche (Feb 27, 2019)

You're going to get heel lift if you try doing calf raises in a boot even if the heel hold is good. It's not really a comparable movement. It's more about rolling the foot while pressing it into the tongue of the boot.


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## Jack87 (Jan 9, 2021)

RayzTheRoof said:


> Nah but it's to simulate the weight of the board and bindings I guess


That is not a simulation that compares to what happens while snowboarding. Probably doing that made you decide against several boots that would have been fine.

Lasso and Photons are both great options though. I have a set of photons that's causing me pain in the heel as well but the heel hold is ridiculously good. I put a tennis ball in it against the J bars last night to see if it'll help. They did get better after heat molding but it was still painful. I'm confident the tennis ball might fix my heel pinch issue.


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## RayzTheRoof (Mar 10, 2014)

Jack87 said:


> That is not a simulation that compares to what happens while snowboarding. Probably doing that made you decide against several boots that would have been fine.
> 
> Lasso and Photons are both great options though. I have a set of photons that's causing me pain in the heel as well but the heel hold is ridiculously good. I put a tennis ball in it against the J bars last night to see if it'll help. They did get better after heat molding but it was still painful. I'm confident the tennis ball might fix my heel pinch issue.


I'm thinking about keeping the Photons if the K2 Maysis that arrive today aren't as good. You're right about the hold simulation. Between the Photon and the Lasso Pro, The Photon is overall more comfortable but it has that somewhat painful heel pinch. The Lasso Pro just feels like nothing one way or another; not comfortable but not uncomfortable. Definitely less heel hold though.

I'll get the Photon heat molded but not sure if it will matter how my shop does it. They use 32's heat devices and Burton recommends only using something called a therm-ic heater that authorized Burton sellers have. My shop doesn't sell Burton anything though.


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## Jack87 (Jan 9, 2021)

RayzTheRoof said:


> I'll get the Photon heat molded but not sure if it will matter how my shop does it. They use 32's heat devices and Burton recommends only using something called a therm-ic heater that authorized Burton sellers have. My shop doesn't sell Burton anything though.


Eh it should be fine essentially same thing. It will help for sure with the heel pain. eventually it will break in and be fine. Or else you can do the tennis ball thing over night seems to help make the pain go away without sacrificing the heel hold.


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## RayzTheRoof (Mar 10, 2014)

K2 Maysis too stiff above my toes and the conda system kills the top of my foot, rip

The Photon so far has been the most comfortable and felt the most snug around the ankle and heel. My worry is longevity since it has no articulation and I've seen that it crumbles and becomes weak quickly. But oh well, it fits. I wish some high tech liner was invented where there is a harness internally that wraps around your foot and pulls it into the liner. Seems tricky though.


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## RayzTheRoof (Mar 10, 2014)

Got the photons heat fit just now. Numb feet after 5 minutes while fitting. Yeah my feet SUCK. I don't even know where the problem is but eventually my toes feel so painful and bulging

Also not sure why but the internal j-bars are uneven between feet and I don't think it's from molding. They have the same height in the left foot but in the right one is super low compared to the other. Might be causing the pinch because that foot was much number than the other.


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## Jack87 (Jan 9, 2021)

RayzTheRoof said:


> Got the photons heat fit just now. Numb feet after 5 minutes while fitting. Yeah my feet SUCK. I don't even know where the problem is but eventually my toes feel so painful and bulging
> 
> Also not sure why but the internal j-bars are uneven between feet and I don't think it's from molding. They have the same height in the left foot but in the right one is super low compared to the other. Might be causing the pinch because that foot was much number than the other.


My left foot J bars seemed to be bulging more than my right foot. Right foot probably has a perfect fit but the J bars are were causing issued on my left foot. Have had the tennis ball in there for almost 24 hours. I may try it on tonight and let you know how it feels.


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## Jack87 (Jan 9, 2021)

RayzTheRoof said:


> I wish some high tech liner was invented where there is a harness internally that wraps around your foot and pulls it into the liner. Seems tricky though.


I think that's the idea of the solomon str8t jacket which you seemed to have a love hate thing going on with.


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## RayzTheRoof (Mar 10, 2014)

Seems like the j-bar was inserted differently idk. It seems like it's almost made of rubber though and I don't think heat fitting works properly on it. One boot definitely has more heel play and lift thanks to that too. I think when I was kicking my heel back in the boot, it might have pushed the bars out of their best positioning 

Also, I'm starting to think I can't go by my exact mondo measurement. My toes ALWAYS curl in all these boots, and even after heat fitting the Burtons my toes curl. If my toes curl after a heat fit, I can't see a further break in making it any better. But I tried Wiredsport's recommendation of not using any lifts under my toes and I think that was bad advice. Even when standing normally with knees bent, my toes curled, but I tried a lift and it pushed my heel back it seemed, and my toes uncurled. I only did it for a second to test it, but I ended up going with Wiredsport's advice. I think I should have just listed the toe lift/ramp, and now I ended up with a really bad heat fit. They charged $40 for it too and I can't go back to do it again. They might do it again for free, but I can't find much info about Burton liners and re-molding, so I don't know if it's a good idea or not or if it's gonna kill the life of the boot.

Salomon fit great but yeah, the str8 jacket system in my pair was improperly manufactured or designed. It 100% was not properly made.


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## Jack87 (Jan 9, 2021)

Your feet curling is not necessarily bad thing. If you bend your knees while standing up that should make more room with your toes straightening out. Also the boots will pack out with time! If you get one too big it will only get bigger and then you really won't have heel hold with tons of pain. 

You have a little case of OCD I am gathering here.


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## RayzTheRoof (Mar 10, 2014)

I mean even when I bend my knees there is still a ton of curl.

Yeah, boots break in with time, but having a heat mold change nothing in the comfort or pressure in the toes makes me think the boots are too short for me. I don't know if I should do a second heat fit or just rock these.


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## Jack87 (Jan 9, 2021)

You can try it again. But maybe @Wiredsport can help determine if you did your measurements correctly.


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## Jack87 (Jan 9, 2021)

@WigMar might be able to help as well.


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## RayzTheRoof (Mar 10, 2014)

I think a lot of boots have really stiff j-bars or heel-hold foam that pinch too tight and push too hard. That probably pushes my foot forward to curl, even after a heat fit, while also pinching too tight and causing circulation issues.


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## WigMar (Mar 17, 2019)

I like to be in the smallest boots I can manage. At first, my toes are definitely curled up a bit. There's some mods you can make to ease that pressure until the liners pack out, ans some mods you can do to speed that process along. It's important to really seat your heel into the heel pocket by kicking your heel on the ground before you lace the boots up. Maybe settling that heel pocket issue will be as important as making more space in the toe box. 

Heel risers- I make my own out of a few layers of adhesive foam. You can cut some out of cardboard to see how they feel before you go all out with the foam. Raising the heel seats my skinny heels into the heel pocket better while pulling my toes away from the front. Add more foam until you get the height you want. As the boots pack out, you can remove layers of foam to back off the lift a bit. 

More molding- you can mold liners multiple times. For hotspots, you can heat the spot with a heat gun or burly hair dryer. The EVA will get soft and then start to puff up a bit. Adding some foam to your toes when molding can bump that area out a but. Same theory goes for the heel pocket. 

If you still need room, you can cut a little slit into the front of the liner where your toes are smashed. Maybe ripping off the stock j bars and adding some less aggressive ones could help seat your heel better. Perhaps a lower volume insole would be worth looking into as well.


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## RayzTheRoof (Mar 10, 2014)

Do your toes usually curl even after a heat mold? And when y'all kick your heel down are you stomping it down, or hitting the backside heel into the ground?

And is it a bad idea to use a wood plank as a toe ramp while molding? It seems like it really helps push that heel back, but Wired recommends against it.


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## WigMar (Mar 17, 2019)

Hit the backside against the ground, almost like you're scraping mud off the bottom of your foot but hit the ground instead. Really try to get your heel as far back into the boot as you can. If there's a heel hold system, lock it down before you lace up the boots. 

Yeah, I often still have some toe pressure after heat molding. However, I'm running slightly under my Mondo measurements. I run heel lifts and do some more aggressive molding, but I haven't had to make modifications other than that. My boots fit very comfortably. Sometimes I think I could get more aggressive with it and drop down another half size. I don't want to commit to buying and modding boots if it's not going to work however. I'm thinking I'll try my current used liners in some smaller shells if I go that route.


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## RayzTheRoof (Mar 10, 2014)

Thanks, I'll try that next time. But thoughts on toe ramps during molding? It seems to work but I don't know why it's advised against doing that.


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## ridethecliche (Feb 27, 2019)

These are my ride lassos. I wore them unmodified on day one and didn't want to cut my feet off. Given the difficulty I've had finding boots that fit at all and the multiple subungual hematomas I've had, that's a huge fucking win. 

I've ridden in them like 5 times now and this is what they look like. 




























This is what the liners and shell look like now. If you think you're going to get a perfect fit out of the box when you don't have the average foot... Well.... You're going to be returning a lot of boots.


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## WigMar (Mar 17, 2019)

RayzTheRoof said:


> Thanks, I'll try that next time. But thoughts on toe ramps during molding? It seems to work but I don't know why it's advised against doing that.


I don't mess with toe ramps. I'm not against them though- I suppose they could help seat you into the heel pocket. I generally just get into my preferred snowboarding stance and wait for the liners to cool.


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## RayzTheRoof (Mar 10, 2014)

Def not expecting perfect right out of the box, but I will need to get my foot further in the heel pocket and then re-mold first. I wish I could at least identify what's causing my loss of circulation though. While the toes can curl a bit and the j-bars can be a bit tight, they aren't uncomfortably tight. So I don't know what makes the problem occur. Even in my boots that are too big for me this happens. I might try Popcush insoles though, not sure if they are thicker.

Ah also do you tighten pretty tight for heat molds or keep it somewhat loose?


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## WigMar (Mar 17, 2019)

When heat molding, lace up as if you're going for a ride.

As for the loss of circulation, I like to bump out a space for the veins that run on the top of my foot. They all come together on top of the foot where the tongue presses down. I add a little adhesive foam/moleskin right over those veins when heat molding. It sounds funny as I type it, but my feet have been warmer from better circulation.


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## jstar (Sep 21, 2016)

WigMar said:


> As for the loss of circulation, I like to bump out a space for the veins that run on the top of my foot. They all come together on top of the foot where the tongue presses down. I add a little adhesive foam/moleskin right over those veins when heat molding. It sounds funny as I type it, but my feet have been warmer from better circulation.


I do the same thing. I’ve identified this area as a major cause of my discomfort in boots.


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## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

RayzTheRoof said:


> Def not expecting perfect right out of the box, but I will need to get my foot further in the heel pocket and then re-mold first. I wish I could at least identify what's causing my loss of circulation though. While the toes can curl a bit and the j-bars can be a bit tight, they aren't uncomfortably tight. So I don't know what makes the problem occur. Even in my boots that are too big for me this happens. I might try Popcush insoles though, not sure if they are thicker.
> 
> Ah also do you tighten pretty tight for heat molds or keep it somewhat loose?





WigMar said:


> When heat molding, lace up as if you're going for a ride.
> 
> As for the loss of circulation, I like to bump out a space for the veins that run on the top of my foot. They all come together on top of the foot where the tongue presses down. I add a little adhesive foam/moleskin right over those veins when heat molding. It sounds funny as I type it, but my feet have been warmer from better circulation.


See post #6...its a simple circulation thing. Also create a deeper heel pocket with a 1/2 butterfly...by having a deeper heel pocket and having more room for the instep...you will not need to have the lower foot crushed.


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## RayzTheRoof (Mar 10, 2014)

A butterfly will take up more space in the heel of the shell though and push the toes forward That's what happened last time I tried one


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