# Whats up with the bottom of my sons Burton Board?



## tannersdad (Jan 9, 2013)

This is after a 3 day trip to Snowshoe WV. Icy as hell the first 2 days and slushy conditions on the final day. I waxed it before we left with EAST COAST brand all temp wax. It has turned a little white around the edges before, and waxing it has always fixed it, but I'm not sure it will this time. What do you guys think?






The board is a 120 cm Chopper, my son Tanner is a beginner, he weighs about 60 lbs.


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## Lamps (Sep 3, 2011)

Needs wax, that's what happens, you get that grey streaks.


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## spino (Jan 8, 2013)

tannersdad said:


> This is after a 3 day trip to Snowshoe WV. Icy as hell the first 2 days and slushy conditions on the final day. I waxed it before we left with EAST COAST brand all temp wax. It has turned a little white around the edges before, and waxing it has always fixed it, but I'm not sure it will this time. What do you guys think?
> The board is a 120 cm Chopper, my son Tanner is a beginner, he weighs about 60 lbs.


my kids have the same board and it usually happens the same to them: it is a combination of extruded base (which retains wax worse) and the fact that, being beginners, they spend most of the time on an edge.

try waxing it first: if this does not solve the problem, you might want to try with a very fine glass-paper (grind it on some metal first, to smoth it a bit more) to remove the burnt part of the base; then polish and wax.

you can also try and use a cold-temp wax for the outer parts: it should last a bit more.

all in all, not a big problem, just be sure to wax as frequently as you can.


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## tannersdad (Jan 9, 2013)

Yeah I plan to wax 4 boards Saturday. (Mine, wife's and 2 boys) All of them have a little "graying" around the edges, which has happened before, and waxing fixes it. But his board has never been that bad. Maybe because his base is a dark blue, it just looks worse. Thanks Lamps.


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## boarderaholic (Aug 13, 2007)

Graying is normal, but that looks REALLY bad. I would get in contact with Burton about that to see what they have to say...


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## Lamps (Sep 3, 2011)

pretty sure a thorough hand wax will sort it out .

get the kids to help out, mine like to help with waxing, athough they're scraping skills aren't great. they're good at putting wax on and not bad at brushing.


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## TyBardy (Feb 7, 2014)

Nasty board burn... a deep wax may solve the problem. Becuase he spends so much time on his edges, deep wax those edges with a cold temp wax. By Deep wax. I mean melt it in real good, let it dry completely, than melt it in again. Scrape it off and wax the entire board again with the same two melt process. 

The cold temp wax on the edges will hold a bit better in the extruded base.


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## tannersdad (Jan 9, 2013)

Thanks guys. I'm waxing our boards tomorrow and putting them up for the season. With baseball, soccer and other activities, our riding in NC is over until November I'm afraid. I plan to put on heavy coats of wax and leave it on over the summer. I have 3 boys. The 18 and 14 yr. old wax their own stuff. I still have to do the wife's, mine, and Tanners. 

I was just surprised to see his board like that. He only weighs 60 lbs. He just started using his toe edge this past weekend. I weigh 260 and have been linking turns all year, and mine never looked that bad. Again, I use EAST COAST wax. They are out of NY if I remember. I like the wax because it goes on nice and smells great! But has anyone else tried their stuff?

I'll post up some pics after I wax it. Thanks again.


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## Ocho (Mar 13, 2011)

tannersdad said:


> I use EAST COAST wax. They are out of NY if I remember. I like the wax because it goes on nice and smells great! But has anyone else tried their stuff?
> 
> I'll post up some pics after I wax it. Thanks again.


I've been using ECW all this season on my 2 boards. I've been really happy with it thus far and notice it seems to last longer than the OBJ I'd been using. 

My Ride deck is an extruded (multi colored base); the GNU, sintered (black base). Only normal wax wear, nothing like what you posted.

Something I noticed first time waxing with ECW is that it was more difficult to scrape than the OBJ. But I thought that was a _good_ thing, as it'll likely last longer. Spoke to a rep for the company and they suggested scraping a bit warm, waiting only around 10 mins to scrape. Previously I'd been leaving it at least 30 mins or even overnight. The 10 min wait definitely made a difference.

Considering your other multiple boards don't show the same thing, I'd wonder if it is specific to that board's base.


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## jtg (Dec 11, 2012)

People say white means needs wax, but this usually isn't true, especially on the edges. There's no way that is "dryness" white in that pic. If you can scratch it off with your nail, it's not lacking wax. If it's faint, dry, and hairy looking, that's another story. Yours just looks like a freshly waxed board that someone rode the edges on.

Since it's probably not dry, it's either base burn, or excess wax. Try scraping better, and let the board cool before scraping. If you scrape when it's too warm, then as the base dries and the base material contracts, it pushes more wax out. (Edit: Odd, poster above suggests the opposite experience. Try both I guess.)

If it's base burn, you need a grind. I doubt it's base burn though, because it's on the edges and is more consistent with the areas favored while riding the board as opposed to being consistent with where the iron was left on. Base burn is from bad iron usage and tends to be patches. Base burn does not happen from a kid learning to link turns and favoring edges a lot. It isn't base burn. Ptex is WAY stronger than that.

Read this for causes of white areas on a base. Contrary to often repeated advice, lacking wax is the least likely of causes:

SkiWax.ca White Patch On Ski Base

I have one board with a sintered base that hasn't been waxed in about 10 years. It's not nearly that white. If you scratch it, you can't scratch the dry off. Obviously.

If you scratch your nail across that one, and it comes off, it's the opposite of a dry spot. It's wax! So you're re-waxing too soon. It won't hurt anything but it's a waste of time/wax.

Scratch your nail into it and say what happens. If your nail doesn't leave a dark spot among the white/gray, taking some residue off, and it is in fact bone dry, I will be very shocked.

I see people get white edges after a day out, look at their board, leave a big trail in it with their fingernail, and say "I guess that means it's time to wax!" Wtf, how does that make sense? 



Lamps said:


> get the kids to help out, mine like to help with waxing, athough they're scraping skills aren't great. they're good at putting wax on and not bad at brushing.


Probably a bad idea. Wax fumes are highly toxic. I wouldn't go out of my way to expose children to it. There are studies where they have found high levels of all kinds of bad shit in the blood of shop techs (from the wax). Source: http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/ski-wax-chemicals-buildup-blood/


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## chomps1211 (Mar 30, 2011)

TyBardy said:


> *Nasty board burn...* a deep wax may solve the problem....




Is that _really_ a thing??? Never heard of "board burn" before. 


My Garage rocker has an extruded base. It can get pretty damned grey along the edges. Complete with something that looks similar to those streaky white lines, _But_, it's has a much lighter color base. Those streaks may just be the way a black extruded base looks when they are completely scraped free of wax. :dunno:

If a good thorough waxing doesn't eliminate it, then I'm with boarderholic. Send Burton an Email with pics. see what they have to say about it.

Good Luck.


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## TyBardy (Feb 7, 2014)

chomps1211 said:


> Is that _really_ a thing??? Never heard of "board burn" before.


Like anything else, it's the term I have come to know and use to discribe what happens to the bottom of a board long after the wax is gone. I may be using the term loosly, and it may mean something different than the way I have been using it for years... but when a board get well beyond the point of dry and you start seeing it look like this burton... to me... it's board burn.


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## lab49232 (Sep 13, 2011)

Anybody who's ever worked in a shop will tell you they've seen that about 20 times a day. It*IS*from the board being run dry on wax and then continued to be ridden. It's not even remotely a question, it's not excess wax, it's not a warranty, and it's not uncommon. This is just what extruded bases do if not maintained. Extruded is fine as long as you wax regularly, there are really no pores so it loses wax super fast. 90% of the time a wax will make it look new and as long as you regularly wax it you'll never see it again.


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## Deacon (Mar 2, 2013)

jtg said:


> People say white means needs wax, but this usually isn't true, especially on the edges. There's no way that is "dryness" white in that pic. If you can scratch it off with your nail, it's not lacking wax. If it's faint, dry, and hairy looking, that's another story. Yours just looks like a freshly waxed board that someone rode the edges on.
> 
> Since it's probably not dry, it's either base burn, or excess wax. Try scraping better, and let the board cool before scraping. If you scrape when it's too warm, then as the base dries and the base material contracts, it pushes more wax out. (Edit: Odd, poster above suggests the opposite experience. Try both I guess.)
> 
> ...


that article is talking about hfc waxes, not general all temp waxes. the guys they were studying were waxing 30 hrs a week, in non ventilated back rooms. pretty sure waxing with non racing 10-15 minutes every other week in the garage or kitchen isn't going to hurt anyone.


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## jtg (Dec 11, 2012)

lab49232 said:


> Anybody who's ever worked in a shop will tell you they've seen that about 20 times a day. It*IS*from the board being run dry on wax and then continued to be ridden. It's not even remotely a question, it's not excess wax, it's not a warranty, and it's not uncommon. This is just what extruded bases do if not maintained. Extruded is fine as long as you wax regularly, there are really no pores so it loses wax super fast. 90% of the time a wax will make it look new and as long as you regularly wax it you'll never see it again.


The fact that most people who work in a shop still think bases have "pores" (they don't, neither extruded nor sintered) tells you that working in a shop doesn't necessarily impart an understanding of chemistry upon them.

Seriously, think about what you are saying. If you scratch the white and it is a film that comes off onto your finger, how could that previously white spot have been due to dryness? Forget the rule of thumb people often repeat and actually consider whether or not that makes sense. Dryness is not a film that can be scratched off. We're talking about 3 days after riding (a beginner kid, no less), not a board that has been neglected for years and is hairy.

But of course it will go away with waxing again, regardless of what it is.


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## f00bar (Mar 6, 2014)

My son has a chooper, the its the monster not toy story, about 6 uses on it and it looks about in the same condition. I just assumed it was from all the side slipping and that it would clean up fairly well with a little attention. I probably should have done a double or tripple heat wax the first time but didn't think of it. I assumed it would just clean up with a bit of attention. But it only cost me $52 new and still wrapped and I figure after next season I'll be upgrading anyway so haven't lost any sleep.


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## Lamps (Sep 3, 2011)

jtg said:


> People say white means needs wax, but this usually isn't true, especially on the edges. There's no way that is "dryness" white in that pic. If you can scratch it off with your nail, it's not lacking wax. If it's faint, dry, and hairy looking, that's another story. Yours just looks like a freshly waxed board that someone rode the edges on.
> 
> Since it's probably not dry, it's either base burn, or excess wax. Try scraping better, and let the board cool before scraping. If you scrape when it's too warm, then as the base dries and the base material contracts, it pushes more wax out. (Edit: Odd, poster above suggests the opposite experience. Try both I guess.)
> 
> ...


I call bullshit on most of this - this time of year you can strip your wax off on a single day's riding. After the guy waxes I'm sure the problem will be fixed. 

I also think that if you and your kids wax boards a few times a year nothing bad is going to happen to you, as opposed to waxing hours a day in a sweatshop.


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## jtg (Dec 11, 2012)

Lamps said:


> I call bullshit on most of this - this time of year you can strip your wax off on a single day's riding.


Care to point out which part of that is bullshit, and your reasoning?


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## CassMT (Mar 14, 2013)

wtf

did disney buy burton or vice-versa?

this makes me sad and want to kill at the same time


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## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

I get kind of chaffed and hairy if I don't wax my bottom enough

....oh wait wrong forum..nevermind.


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## Lamps (Sep 3, 2011)

jtg said:


> Care to point out which part of that is bullshit, and your reasoning?


the kid rode for 3 days in icy and slushy conditions, I'm sure the wax is stripped from the board, not the reasons listed in the article, and when the guy rewaxes the problem will go a way. no way a little kid burnt the base

another posted made points I agree with about how occasional exposure to non racing waxes is harmless, as opposed to working in a sweatshop waxing all day


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## Deacon (Mar 2, 2013)

CassMT said:


> wtf
> 
> did disney buy burton or vice-versa?
> 
> this makes me sad and want to kill at the same time


before you go all murderous rampage, my son has a Burton Chopper also.... with a storm trooper on it.


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## f00bar (Mar 6, 2014)

The Deacon said:


> before you go all murderous rampage, my son has a Burton Chopper also.... with a storm trooper on it.


At least we all know we're safe from him hitting what he shoots at. For highly trained genetically engineered soldiers they really suck at their job.

Back to the murdering now?


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## jtg (Dec 11, 2012)

Lamps said:


> the kid rode for 3 days in icy and slushy conditions, I'm sure the wax is stripped from the board, not the reasons listed in the article, and when the guy rewaxes the problem will go a way. no way a little kid burnt the base


Ah, sounds like you didn't read the post you were calling bullshit on. I already said it wasn't "burn", and yes it will go away if you wax again but you don't need to.

It's not dry though, the white you see is wax, not a lack of wax. There is obviously a film visible in the pics. You'd have to be braindead to think that a deep blue material can dry out so badly in 3 days that it loses ALL of its color but only on the edges with no transition. No board in existence goes from that dark to that white from dryness, even the 90s relics hanging on your local apres ski wall that haven't been waxed in decades.

The fingernail test will prove this as soon as he does it.


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## f00bar (Mar 6, 2014)

Perhaps we need to add a 1st, 2nd, 3rd degree to the burn to make things a bit clearer. It's not really a burn, we're using it as an analogy.

Or we can keep going and turn this into Anchorman newroom battle royal. But I claim the trident.


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## a4h Saint (Jan 24, 2013)

The Deacon said:


> before you go all murderous rampage, my son has a Burton Chopper also.... with a storm trooper on it.


Even though it has a storm trooper doesn't mean it's not a Disney board. Sorry to burst all the geeks bubbles, but Disney now owns Lucas Arts.


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## a4h Saint (Jan 24, 2013)

f00bar said:


> Perhaps we need to add a 1st, 2nd, 3rd degree to the burn to make things a bit clearer. It's not really a burn, we're using it as an analogy.
> 
> Or we can keep going and turn this into Anchorman newroom battle royal. But I claim the trident.


Out of the true heart of this forum, I say we watch it continue and blow sky high. It seems to be far more entertaining to circle around an internet arguement and chant "fight, fight, fight" then talk about snowboarding. Not criticizing...I agree! :laugh:


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## f00bar (Mar 6, 2014)

a4h Saint said:


> Out of the true heart of this forum, I say we watch it continue and blow sky high. It seems to be far more entertaining to circle around an internet arguement and chant "fight, fight, fight" then talk about snowboarding. Not criticizing...I agree! :laugh:


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## Deacon (Mar 2, 2013)

a4h Saint said:


> Even though it has a storm trooper doesn't mean it's not a Disney board. Sorry to burst all the geeks bubbles, but Disney now owns Lucas Arts.


they might be owned by Disney, but it's still star wars. :laugh:


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## tannersdad (Jan 9, 2013)

jtg said:


> People say white means needs wax, but this usually isn't true, especially on the edges. There's no way that is "dryness" white in that pic. If you can scratch it off with your nail, it's not lacking wax. If it's faint, dry, and hairy looking, that's another story. Yours just looks like a freshly waxed board that someone rode the edges on.


After reading this I scratched it with my fingernail and yes, the white did come off. Went over the whole board with a stiff brush and it looked 75% better. After a good wax and scrape it looks almost new again. I had never seen it happen on this board before, but the difference I think, was the 3 days of riding and he is riding on both edges now instead of just his heels. Thanks for all the reply's guys. I will post after pics later today.


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## tannersdad (Jan 9, 2013)

lab49232 said:


> Anybody who's ever worked in a shop will tell you they've seen that about 20 times a day. It*IS*from the board being run dry on wax and then continued to be ridden. It's not even remotely a question, it's not excess wax, it's not a warranty, and it's not uncommon. This is just what extruded bases do if not maintained. Extruded is fine as long as you wax regularly, there are really no pores so it loses wax super fast. 90% of the time a wax will make it look new and as long as you regularly wax it you'll never see it again.


If you are talking about the board in the picture, I can assure you it was waxed before our trip. Along with my board, my wife,s board and my other 2 sons. I change my oil every 3000 miles too.


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## tannersdad (Jan 9, 2013)

Before and after pics:


After a good brushing, most of the white disappeared or turned to gray.


After one coat of wax and a scrape it looks almost new. :eusa_clap:


Turns out it was just excess wax, Brushing it took away most of the "white" areas. Thanks for all the replies.


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## ItchEtrigR (Jan 1, 2012)

tannersdad said:


> After reading this I scratched it with my fingernail and yes, the white did come off. Went over the whole board with a stiff brush and it looked 75% better. After a good wax and scrape it looks almost new again. I had never seen it happen on this board before, but the difference I think, was the 3 days of riding and he is riding on both edges now instead of just his heels. Thanks for all the reply's guys. I will post after pics later today.


Welcome to the world of extruded base. It's a common thing, what you where scratching off was not wax but microscopic ptexfiber hairs that form on the edges. It usually unavoidable but the process is sped up when you don't maintain the base and continually ride without brushing, waxing & scraping.


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## f00bar (Mar 6, 2014)

Good to hear. My sons is exactly the same way and it makes sense as I know I didn't do a great job waxing them. I need a new scraper, all mine are for skis and a bit narrow.


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