# So... How do you dirtbag it?



## kimchijajonshim (Aug 19, 2007)

I backpack in the summers, and lean on that gear to dirtbag.

SLIGHTLY crack open a window. You will get condensation on the interior of your windows and it will frost over if temps are much below freezing. I've had to scrape the inside of my windshield because the defroster was taking too long.

I lay back the back seat on my Subie Forester and just lay out with my head towards the rear. It's not ideal, namely because the platform is a little short for me (I'm 6') and it slopes down towards the rear, but it's fine. My feet hang off over the gap between the seats and center console. If I had a longer Outback, I think I'd be fine. It's workable, I've slept in worse conditions.

I've looked into building a sleeper platform, but I'm lazy and I've never spent more than a couple nights in the Hotel Subaru. If I did longer trips, I'd either built out a proper conversion or pay someone to do it for me.

I lay out a closed-cell foam backpacking sleeping pad (my inflatable if I'm not too lazy to blow it up) with my old 30 degree down camping bag. In the winter that bag lives in my trunk compressed in my spare tire space, along with some emergency supplies (old base layers, mittens, gloves, socks, head lamps, and a Snow Claw. Those emergency supplies double as backups for when I inevitably forget shit on resort or backcountry days.

For cooking, I carry a few gallons of water and a small isobutane powered backpacking stove and associated cook gear. Sometimes I cook canned soup, sometimes I just boil water and use dehydrated meals. I can cook pasta, cous cous, or lentils or something if I'm feeling ambitious, but usually I'm valuing speed so I can get on the trailhead or resort and go, so I focus on liquids I can boil. Starbucks Via instant coffee packets are clutch-- kind of terrible, but I'm not expecting gourmet coffee under the circumstances.

Bathrooms, I usually sleep over in Highway rest stops of State-run, permitted Sno-parks (I'm not sure if an equivalent to this exists on the East Coast; Washington, Oregon, and California all have them with reciprocity between states). If I'm far enough away from civilization, I park on BLM or USFS land where you can legally park on the side of the road and dispersed camp.

Gear, I do my best to dry it out before going to bed and kind of shove it out of the way. I have a roof rack, but don't have it installed and prefer not to use it unless I have a full car. I wish I had to a box just to keep shit out of the way. But I've done this setup with 3 full setups and multiple boots as a 6', 200+ lb guy, so it's fine as long as you're not prissy about it.

If I go this route, I make a point of wearing merino base layers-- ESPECIALLY if I'm planning on touring. Merino is naturally anti-bacterial and regulates temperature better. If you go the synthetic route and stay over a night after riding, you will stink.

Edit: Also have what you need to sleep comfortably. I carry noise cancelling headphones and sleep masks. Rest stops especially have constant noise from semis, but even at sno-parks, other dirt bags are moving around.


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## Crusty (Nov 8, 2018)

I fully approve this thread. (Don't tell my family).

Carry on.


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## Gladed (Aug 26, 2018)

Go on Ride, this is awesome!

The eastern life is well different from the rocky mountain one. Only additions to you and Kim's posts(which you probably know), carry an extra tank of gas and a shovel incase shit goes south. The amount of times I've gotten stopped on I80 in the midst of a 20-30 inch blizzard. Yeah, fuck that. Studded tires for your winters might go a long way as well, depending on how much winter you actually see.

Have you decided on a vehicle yet?


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## MrDavey2Shoes (Mar 5, 2018)

This is why I bought a wagon!


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## smellysell (Oct 29, 2018)

Love my ghetto ass, truck camper. 

Laying in bed in a parking lot as I type. . 

Sent from my Pixel 5 using Tapatalk


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## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

Another ghetto truck canopy rig. 1990 Mazda 2200 extra-cab with ancient aluminum canopy. Build a shelf to the same height of the wheel wells where the boards, boots and stuff can slide under to separate the wet from the dry. Pretty sure its the oldest and most beat vehicle in the posh ski lot...and yes I carry jumpers, antifreeze, oil, brake fluid and tools.


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## ridethecliche (Feb 27, 2019)

One of the things I've been trying to look into and figure out is something I've mentioned to @Crusty ... i.e. what do you do for heat in the car if it's actually damn cold out. I've seen folks use propane heaters, but that sounds suboptimal in a closed environment where everything is flammable. So what are other good options?

Well, battery tech is getting better and better... If the goal isn't to heat something up to room temp, but merely keep something around freezing.... maybe a decent battery/inverter setup with a small car heater would let this work. Recharging it might be difficult if you're parked in the same place, but if you're on the move it might be possible to wire up a battery tender so things can recharge while you're driving. Or you can just plug into the car's 12V charger depending on what you have. A small portable gas heater could be a good backup for heat and will definitely be helpful if something were to go wrong and one got stuck for a period of time. I know it's done all the time, but I'd feel way more comfortable with a small electric heater that had a tip-over shutoff than a gas heater even if it's safe.



Gladed said:


> Go on Ride, this is awesome!
> 
> The eastern life is well different from the rocky mountain one. Only additions to you and Kim's posts(which you probably know), carry an extra tank of gas and a shovel incase shit goes south. The amount of times I've gotten stopped on I80 in the midst of a 20-30 inch blizzard. Yeah, fuck that. Studded tires for your winters might go a long way as well, depending on how much winter you actually see.
> 
> Have you decided on a vehicle yet?


I think my plan would be to keep atleast half a tank of gas going in the car prior to a stop just in case. The issue with the Eastern life is that shit gets real real cold here. Up at Jay, it'll be down into the negatives real temp and way way down with wind chill. That can make car camping pretty sketchy, so I think you have to be smart about stuff and pick your days wisely. An airbnb is cheaper than a lost limb or worse... Storage would have to be figured out for a gas can because I really wouldn't want those fumes inside.

Re: vehicle.

It's a bit rough because I have to parallel park in philly where my gf lives. No dedicated parking spots in the places that she can live for a reasonable amount of money. I'm mostly considering something RAV4/CRV sized, but also seriously considering highlanders if I can go a bit older and find something in the same price. A same year highlander goes for about 7-10k more than a rav4 with the same miles and that's a bit too much for me right now. I could easily take out a loan for it but I'd rather go a few years older and pay a similar amount. I'm still in training for the next 3ish years and I'd rather not expose myself to more debt if I can avoid it. I think 15-20k is about my upper limit. If I can figure out a setup for a RAV4/CRV that will work for me, I'd go for it. I doubt my GF is going to want any part of this and when we travel together the cost of splitting a room makes it a pretty easy decision.

This is the setup that made me really want a highlander.
toyotanation.com/threads/2010-highlander-sleeping-platform-and-climate-control-questions.1351657/#post-14201689

Some pics:






















That's probably not exactly how I'd set it up, but you have enough space for 2 up front as normal, have enough space to sleep 2 in the back AND you have enough space under the platform for gear and boards. If you have a roof cargo rack or a hitch with a cargo trunk or whatnot, then you have wayyyy more space. I'd like to avoid the roof cargo rack and the hitch if possible because my trips aren't likely to be that long and because the roof rack tanks gas mileage for a vehicle that already isn't great on gas.


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## Gladed (Aug 26, 2018)

ridethecliche said:


> One of the things I've been trying to look into and figure out is something I've mentioned to @Crusty ... i.e. what do you do for heat in the car if it's actually damn cold out. I've seen folks use propane heaters, but that sounds suboptimal in a closed environment where everything is flammable. So what are other good options?
> 
> Well, battery tech is getting better and better... If the goal isn't to heat something up to room temp, but merely keep something around freezing.... maybe a decent battery/inverter setup with a small car heater would let this work. Recharging it might be difficult if you're parked in the same place, but if you're on the move it might be possible to wire up a battery tender so things can recharge while you're driving. Or you can just plug into the car's 12V charger depending on what you have. A small portable gas heater could be a good backup for heat and will definitely be helpful if something were to go wrong and one got stuck for a period of time. I know it's done all the time, but I'd feel way more comfortable with a small electric heater that had a tip-over shutoff than a gas heater even if it's safe.
> 
> ...


Yeah dude. You have a good system and a rig that's well sized. Keep some extra anti freeze, and the idea of keeping an extra gas tank is that you might need it to run your engine for heat on cold nights. Obviously you can also use it if you run out of fuel on the road. I don't think you would need to though. It's a precausion


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## ridethecliche (Feb 27, 2019)

Gladed said:


> Yeah dude. You have a good system and a rig that's well sized. Keep some extra anti freeze, and the idea of keeping an extra gas tank is that you might need it to run your engine for heat on cold nights. Obviously you can also use it if you run out of fuel on the road. I don't think you would need to though. It's a precausion


Just to be clear, that's not my setup. Seeing that is what's making me consider the highlander more highly. If I can find something solid with the CRV/RAV. I might have to jump on that since I'd be getting newer car with less miles for the same money. Given their better fuel economy, it wouldn't be as detrimental to get a roof box or rack for additional storage of things as well.


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## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

ridethecliche said:


> One of the things I've been trying to look into and figure out is something I've mentioned to @Crusty ... i.e. what do you do for heat in the car if it's actually damn cold out. I've seen folks use propane heaters, but that sounds suboptimal in a closed environment where everything is flammable. So what are other good options?
> 
> Well, battery tech is getting better and better... If the goal isn't to heat something up to room temp, but merely keep something around freezing.... maybe a decent battery/inverter setup with a small car heater would let this work. Recharging it might be difficult if you're parked in the same place, but if you're on the move it might be possible to wire up a battery tender so things can recharge while you're driving. Or you can just plug into the car's 12V charger depending on what you have. A small portable gas heater could be a good backup for heat and will definitely be helpful if something were to go wrong and one got stuck for a period of time. I know it's done all the time, but I'd feel way more comfortable with a small electric heater that had a tip-over shutoff than a gas heater even if it's safe.
> 
> ...


Back in the day, we had a vw van when I was a kid, they made these little aftermarket heaters that used a spark plug and gasoline out of the tank. Irrc you had to run the car but it would heat up the vw van in about 3-5 minutes to like 80 degrees F. It was like having a little rocket burner.

Btw have a friend that is like 6' 5" and has a Honda Element that he loves to dirtbag in and says there is plenty of room to build a shelf to sleep on and put stuff under.


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## Gladed (Aug 26, 2018)

ridethecliche said:


> Just to be clear, that's not my setup. Seeing that is what's making me consider the highlander more highly.


Right. Well I like the direction you're going! I drove a Highlander for years and it gets around the mountains exceptionally well. Never turned it into a proper rig though.

My sister just got a new CRV last year and it's a tidy vehicle. I think the same can be said for a Rav though admittedly I've never driven one.


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## Eivind så klart (Aug 30, 2020)

A bit of topic, but why not a tent?


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## mojo maestro (Jan 6, 2009)

You pop a tent........then you're "camping".................which isn't allowed..................sleeping in car is just "overnighting"...........able to move if plows need access.................


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## Eivind så klart (Aug 30, 2020)

Ahh.. yea, I forgot you guys have rules against that.


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## ridethecliche (Feb 27, 2019)

Eivind så klart said:


> A bit of topic, but why not a tent?


Warmer in the car as well in addition to the other stuff mentioned.


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## smellysell (Oct 29, 2018)

Is a small truck with a topper out of the question? That would be my vote. Cheap Chinese diesel heater and a house battery and isolator is easy/efficient heat option. 

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## MrDavey2Shoes (Mar 5, 2018)

When I was looking into this idea for my wagen heating was the challenge I couldn’t solve. I determined that a heat source would be counter intuitive since you’d have to crack the window more for both moisture and o2 (if going has route). Electric heater could do it but I think a 
-degree rated sleeping bag and proper layering is going to be where most of your warmth comes from. Also an air mattress isn’t the best idea as you lose lots of heat through them. I’d go with either a very slim camping air mattress or a couple camping pads. I’ve seen some people put down memory foam and call it a day. As far as your parking in philly issue. WAGEN!!!

check out some overlanding forums or even some Toyota Tacoma/4Runner groups.


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## smellysell (Oct 29, 2018)

MrDavey2Shoes said:


> When I was looking into this idea for my wagen heating was the challenge I couldn’t solve. I determined that a heat source would be counter intuitive since you’d have to crack the window more for both moisture and o2 (if going has route). Electric heater could do it but I think a diesel - degree rates sleeping bag and proper layering is going to be where most of your warmth comes from. Also an air mattress isn’t the best idea as you lose lots of heat through them. I’d go with either a very slim camping air mattress or a couple camping pads. I’ve seen some people put down memory foam and call it a day. As far as your parking in philly issue. WAGEN!!!
> 
> check out some overlanding forums or even some Toyota Tacoma/4Runner groups.


That's another benefit of the diesel heater is the dry heat. Only draw back, especially for something like you guys are talking about, is the necessity of a second battery. I suppose figuring out where to put the tank too. They hardly take up any room. 

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## Eivind så klart (Aug 30, 2020)

ridethecliche said:


> Warmer in the car as well in addition to the other stuff mentioned.


When you park and go to bed I agree, but it's insane cold waking up there. 
I used to live in a Mercedes Vito 10 + years back for weeks at the time just too push the winter a little longer, threw out the backseats and put a cheap IKEA bed in there. Hated it, never sleeping in a car again. Admire you guys who can do it though.


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## ridethecliche (Feb 27, 2019)

Eivind så klart said:


> When you park and go to bed I agree, but it's insane cold waking up there.
> I used to live in a Mercedes Vito 10 + years back for weeks at the time just too push the winter a little longer, threw out the backseats and put a cheap IKEA bed in there. Hated it, never sleeping in a car again. Admire you guys who can do it though.


I've never done this and would likely only do it for 1-2 night trips. If I'm staying somewhere longer, I'd maybeee do it for a couple of days of the entire trip broken up.

Re warmth.
That would be the point of the heater, esp electric. Set it to maybe 40ish deg so it's not overwhelmed in a car and go to town. Can always set it on a timer or something to turn up to 50 or so for right before your alarm. 



smellysell said:


> That's another benefit of the diesel heater is the dry heat. Only draw back, especially for something like you guys are talking about, is the necessity of a second battery. I suppose figuring out where to put the tank too. They hardly take up any room.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 5 using Tapatalk


Maybe it's a non issue, but with a gas source of heat, wouldn't it be a pretty huge fire hazard? I guess any source of heat would be but I figured a small car heater might be safer. 



smellysell said:


> Is a small truck with a topper out of the question? That would be my vote. Cheap Chinese diesel heater and a house battery and isolator is easy/efficient heat option.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 5 using Tapatalk


Yeah. I'd rather have something enclosed and contiguous if possible. Leaves a bit more room for setup no.

Like @MrDavey2Shoes says, if money and room was no problem I'd be looking at 4runners, but I really think that's overkill. I could probably make do with a CRV/RAV4. If it gives me the same life (maybe up to 160-180k if buying at 100k) then that would leave some money aside for paying for rooms when I'd have to. Honestly this is probably only going to really happen during early and late season or be location dependent. I really can't imagine doing this at Jay in the dead of winter. Some of the highs on good riding days are in the single digits. It would be idiotic for me to do that.


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## kimchijajonshim (Aug 19, 2007)

FWIW I can't speak to the East Coast, but in the Sierras I just dress really fucking warm and roll with my 3 season camping setup. Warm socks, down puffy, down bag w/ hood up. I have friends who've snow camped in similar setups out in the elements under tarp tents, not even in the car.

I've been ok down to the teens and suspect I'd be fine down to sub-zero with some tweaks (heated water in a Nalgene bottle, hand warmers and mitts, down booties). If we're talking like -40 F windchill or something, that's obviously a different story.

Running heat overnight in an enclosed space not designed for it sketches me out. I'd rather just be a bit uncomfortable. Although to be fair I generally run warm.


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## ridethecliche (Feb 27, 2019)

kimchijajonshim said:


> FWIW I can't speak to the East Coast, but in the Sierras I just dress really fucking warm and roll with my 3 season camping setup. Warm socks, down puffy, down bag w/ hood up. I have friends who've snow camped in similar setups out in the elements under tarp tents, not even in the car.
> 
> I've been ok down to the teens and suspect I'd be fine down to sub-zero with some tweaks (heated water in a Nalgene bottle, hand warmers and mitts, down booties). If we're talking like -40 F windchill or something, that's obviously a different story.
> 
> Running heat overnight in an enclosed space not designed for it sketches me out. I'd rather just be a bit uncomfortable. Although to be fair I generally run warm.


Haha yeah, I'm 5'10 and I weight like 50-60lbs less than you at about 160-170. I run cold-ish at times so would def need a slightly higher ambient temp. 

The heaters I was talking about are car heaters which are very small. I'd probably set up a stand kinda thing for them so they're on a stable platform, but yeah... that's why the gas setup sketches me out.


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## smellysell (Oct 29, 2018)

ridethecliche said:


> I've never done this and would likely only do it for 1-2 night trips. If I'm staying somewhere longer, I'd maybeee do it for a couple of days of the entire trip broken up.
> 
> Re warmth.
> That would be the point of the heater, esp electric. Set it to maybe 40ish deg so it's not overwhelmed in a car and go to town. Can always set it on a timer or something to turn up to 50 or so for right before your alarm.
> ...


Not really, diesel is way different than gasoline in that regard, but yes, any source of heat could be a fire hazard I suppose. Probably not worth drilling holes for the intake and exhaust in your situation though, or like I said the extra battery. 

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## WigMar (Mar 17, 2019)

I rock winter camping gear I've got laying around from mountaineering. A 0 degree bag is pretty plush. Add a liner when it's actually cold out. I sleep in a hat with a flap that covers my face as well. 

Sleeping in sub zero is fine, but getting out of the bag in the morning really isn't. Plus, all of your gear is cold. Freezing boots are a bummer.

I've got a wave 6 catalytic heater in my bus that rocks. It runs on propane and can be set really low overnight. You need a cracked window, space around the heater, and an alarm for fire, monoxide and propane.... So probably not ideal for a car. My friend has a Mr buddy heater he uses to heat his van after he wakes up. It blasts heat. That with a good bag could get you through. Warm the boots by the heater as you boil water and get organized.


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## kimchijajonshim (Aug 19, 2007)

WigMar said:


> Sleeping in sub zero is fine, but getting out of the bag in the morning really isn't.


Fair point. I don't really need a heater overnight, a heater would be really, really nice on pre-sunset wakeup calls on backcountry trailheads. Especially repeatedly putzing with my damn skins because they're not sitting right because I've lost feeling in my fingers lol.


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## WigMar (Mar 17, 2019)

kimchijajonshim said:


> Fair point. I don't really need a heater overnight, a heater would be really, really nice on pre-sunset wakeup calls on backcountry trailheads. Especially repeatedly putzing with my damn skins because they're not sitting right because I've lost feeling in my fingers lol.


Right? The overnight heater is nice in the bus when I'm with my wife, but I don't need all that if it's just me. These Mr Buddies are pretty popular with the ice fishing crowd as well.


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## Gladed (Aug 26, 2018)

Eivind så klart said:


> Ahh.. yea, I forgot you guys have rules against that.


Dude, I have a few friends that live just outside of Oslo. Sounds like hikers/campers paradise.


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## ridethecliche (Feb 27, 2019)

Not really how I'd want to do things because it would attract more attention, but this seems pretty cool as well. Definitely more of a warm weather option though.








CoolCamp - RunawayCampers.com







www.runawaycampers.com


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## NT.Thunder (Jan 4, 2020)

Get a JetBoil - these things are awesome.






Jetboil Home


Jetboil builds super-dependable backpacking stoves and camping systems that pack light, set up quick, and achieve rapid boils in minutes. Plus we have the unrivaled power and control you need to go gourmet from basecamp to summit and everywhere in between.




www.jetboil.com


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## Eivind så klart (Aug 30, 2020)

Gladed said:


> Dude, I have a few friends that live just outside of Oslo. Sounds like hikers/campers paradise.


It’s sweet. I think most of Europe got this right to roam thing? Though there are rules, you can't camp within 250 meters of someones house/backyard and you can't stay at the same place for more than two nights.


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## kimchijajonshim (Aug 19, 2007)

NT.Thunder said:


> Get a JetBoil - these things are awesome.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I don't do Jetboils because I prefer having the versatility to cook and simmer real food... but if I just wanted to boil water, these things are dope. Faster and more efficient to reach boil, lighter and easier to pack, and less risk of tipping over because the pot is integrated with the stove unit.


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## kimchijajonshim (Aug 19, 2007)

Eivind så klart said:


> It’s sweet. I think most of Europe got this right to roam thing? Though there are rules, you can't camp within 250 meters of someones house/backyard and you can't stay at the same place for more than two nights.


Nah, I looked into it when I was thinking about backpacking the continent... most of Europe's right to roam is pretty limited. If anything far more constrained that the US. Right to roam is big in the Nordic countries, and lesser extent in the UK. Looks like Austria and Switzerland have pretty strong right to roam policies.

The United States doesn't grant any official right to roam, but may as well west of the Rockies outside of major metropolitan areas. We have unfettered non-exploitive public access on most federally owned land (namely National Parks and National Monuments). We don't have rights on private property, but the federal government owns SO MUCH LAND, that limitation often doesn't really matter. Of course just looking at that map, you can see this means squat for folks on the East Coast and Midwest who have far less access for a myriad of historical reasons.


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## ridethecliche (Feb 27, 2019)

Going to get this thread going again. 

Someone recommended one of these for keeping warm while sleeping in the cold. 









Electric Heated Mattress Pads & Bed Warmers | Electrowarmth


Shop Electrowarmth's electric heated mattress pads & bed warmers and sleep cozy and warm so you can wake up rested and refreshed. All sizes are available!



electrowarmth.com





Anyone have any recs for how to get a battery setup going to power this? My car actually has an electric outlet or two (2011 rav4) but I'm nervous that I'd drain the battery overnight even though I have a jump pack.


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## WigMar (Mar 17, 2019)

That's pretty cool. I'll probably pick up one of those heated mats to help my wife sleep in my bus.

Maybe try a portable power station like this jackery.


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## ridethecliche (Feb 27, 2019)

Oh interesting! Good lead on the power station. This looks to have a similar capacity, good reviews, and is currently like 125. Might be worth a shot. Car has two outlets so can easily charge during a drive if I forget to top things off at home. This could probably power the heating pad for two nights.






Amazon.com : DBPOWER Portable Power Station, Peak 350W Backup Lithium Battery 250Wh 110V Pure Sine Wave AC Outlet Solar Generator Supply(Solar Panel Not Included) for Emergency Outdoor Camping Fishing Hunting CPAP : Patio, Lawn & Garden


Amazon.com : DBPOWER Portable Power Station, Peak 350W Backup Lithium Battery 250Wh 110V Pure Sine Wave AC Outlet Solar Generator Supply(Solar Panel Not Included) for Emergency Outdoor Camping Fishing Hunting CPAP : Patio, Lawn & Garden



www.amazon.com





Gonna look for some alternatives for this to see what I can make happen. If I can find a decent alternative for the pad that would be awesome as well.

Found this one!
https://www.amazon.com/Sunbeam-Heated-Mattress-Quilted-Settings-SleekSet/dp/B008BF2UHC/ref=mp_s_a_1_5?crid=4VP5Q7G7FNW&dchild=1&keywords=heated+mattress+pad&qid=1635220780&refinements=p_n_size_browse-bin:362279011&rnid=362278011&s=bedbath&sprefix=heated+mattress&sr=1-5

And a mattress option? 

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B091NXZSBP?ref_=posts 

Would love to have this all set up for a few hundred bucks. The biggest thing is going to be how I can pee at night lol. That and the fact that there's currently no way to open the rear door from the inside. I've seen someone modify it but it requires cutting things up. Still, it would be nice to get out from the back instead of having to use a door to enter and exit.


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## mojo maestro (Jan 6, 2009)

Pee bottle..........takes a few times............yer body doesn't want to pee whilst laying down........


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## smellysell (Oct 29, 2018)

Do most of the hills out your way not have outhouses in the parking lots? 

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## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

mojo maestro said:


> Pee bottle..........takes a few times............yer body doesn't want to pee whilst laying down........


^ This, I sleep in the molehole = creepy basement, cause I'm seasoned, snore and if I get too active there's no going back to sleep. Besides then when you get really seasoned...then you already know what to do .


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## smellysell (Oct 29, 2018)

Actually spent a good chunk of the day yesterday switching from summer to winter camper mode, now it just needs to snow! 

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## ridethecliche (Feb 27, 2019)

I'm trying to figure out how big of a power station I would need to do this? One of the advantages of getting something bigger would be the ability to run an electric kettle or something off it and use that to make food/coffee etc, but at that point a jetboil is cheaper.

Something like this: https://ecoflow.com/products/river-max-portable-power-station?variant=39335175979081

I guess I need to do some math to see how long the different options could run something from about 80% charge. I'm also a bit concerned that the battery would lose a lot of charge overnight. I guess I could use a hot water bottle or heat packs or something and put them around the battery in a cooler that's big enough to hold it? Not sure how real of an issue this would be.


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## smellysell (Oct 29, 2018)

ridethecliche said:


> I'm trying to figure out how big of a power station I would need to do this? One of the advantages of getting something bigger would be the ability to run an electric kettle or something off it and use that to make food/coffee etc, but at that point a jetboil is cheaper.
> 
> Something like this: https://ecoflow.com/products/river-max-portable-power-station?variant=39335175979081
> 
> I guess I need to do some math to see how long the different options could run something from about 80% charge. I'm also a bit concerned that the battery would lose a lot of charge overnight. I guess I could use a hot water bottle or heat packs or something and put them around the battery in a cooler that's big enough to hold it? Not sure how real of an issue this would be.


One thing I guarantee, you won't ever think "I wish I had gotten a smaller battery." 

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## Powdertrax (Jan 28, 2018)

If you haven’t bought new rig yet get a AWD Honda Element 5 spd if possible, I bought mine new in 2005 and just sold it last year to a close friend. I talked three other friends into buying one and all three loved it.

When you take the back two seats out you won’t believe the room you’ll have in there. Ive had three guys, two mtn bikes inside with the third bike in the rack. I had a set of BFG All terrains put on and that thing was unstoppable, numerous times I was one of the first ones on the pass and was literally pushing fresh snow with no problem.

My only complaint was it could have used more hp and better mpg. In the 15 years I owned it I didn’t have a single issue, if you can find a low mileage one owner grab it, you can find one for under $10k easily.

Here’s a pic of it on its 15th birthday, I keep my shit super clean hopefully my new Passport will keep up the Honda quality.


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## ridethecliche (Feb 27, 2019)

@Powdertrax
I bought a v6 RAV4. It's a 2011. Bonus here is that I can tow 3500lbs. I honestly don't want to have to rip the back seats out because I live in an apartment and have nowhere to store them. The way the Rav4's rear is set up, taking out the seats would create some additional storage space, but not really any additional 'living' space so to speak because with the seats folded down, the space is pretty much flat. Removing the seats would require building a platform for a sleeping surface. I definitely think it could add more utility, but it would require a lot of doing. I'll take some measurements this evening and try to see what's feasible.

It would be awesome to make a trailer using one of the harbor freight trailers but I don't think it's a great idea to have a trailer when you're driving through sketchy and snowy conditions. It's also not stealthy at all.


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## WigMar (Mar 17, 2019)

Powdertrax said:


> If you haven’t bought new rig yet get a AWD Honda Element 5 spd if possible, I bought mine new in 2005 and just sold it last year to a close friend. I talked three other friends into buying one and all three loved it.
> 
> When you take the back two seats out you won’t believe the room you’ll have in there. Ive had three guys, two mtn bikes inside with the third bike in the rack. I had a set of BFG All terrains put on and that thing was unstoppable, numerous times I was one of the first ones on the pass and was literally pushing fresh snow with no problem.
> 
> ...


I had an Element, and it treated me well. I really liked the rubberized interior, traction control, suicide doors, and the rear seats. It always started and never gave me a problem at all. Those features didn't make up for how terrible of a vehicle it is though. It was exhausting to drive though the mountains because it's massively under powered and is very top heavy. As per the manual: "The maximum load for your vehicle is 675lbs for US models and 308kg for Canadian. This includes total wt for all occupants, cargo, accessories, and the tongue wt if you are towing a trailer." I'm over 400 pounds just with myself and an average buddy. As soon as we invite another friend or bring some gear with us, it's all over. If you overload the vehicle, you can bend the frame and then your windshield cracks every few thousand miles. Ask me how I know. 

If they had built the Element off of the Pilot frame instead of a CRV, it would have been one of the greatest vehicles ever made. It would have more power, better handling, and a realistic maximum load. It's insane to offer all that space and then limit what you can carry so severely. As it stands, I see it as a missed opportunity that really disappoints me. I sold my Element, bought a Volvo XC90 which I greatly prefer, and had $10,000 left over. Best move I've made in a long time.


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## ridethecliche (Feb 27, 2019)

Found a way to open the rav4 door from the inside!
This is getting interesting!









Added Rear Door Opener


I camp out several times a year and sleep in the back of my RAV. I often wished I could open the rear door from inside and found a pretty easy way to do it. I drilled a 2" hole through the door and clamped a 12" long piece of 1/4" diameter aluminum rod to the actuator rod. The rod has a...




www.rav4world.com


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## mojo maestro (Jan 6, 2009)

slept 100+ nights in the back of subie Impreza...........


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## MrDavey2Shoes (Mar 5, 2018)

@ridethecliche you gotta get a matte black wrap for +17 sneak/stealth points


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## ridethecliche (Feb 27, 2019)

MrDavey2Shoes said:


> @ridethecliche you gotta get a matte black wrap for +17 sneak/stealth points


What am I wrapping again?


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## MrDavey2Shoes (Mar 5, 2018)

ridethecliche said:


> What am I wrapping again?


Whatever you’re making stealthy


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## ridethecliche (Feb 27, 2019)

So took some measurements of the back of the rav.

With the rear seats down, the total length is about 70 inches. If I move the passenger seat all the way forward, it's about 76 inches.

The width at the back between the wheelwells is about 32 inches. It's wider elsewhere obviously at a little over 50 inches at the back seats.

The height is about 3 ft at the most and about 30 inches at the shortest.

So it looks like I have a decent amount of space to work with. Appears it would be best to sleep on the passenger side. Would have to see how to put together a platform, which would definitely improve utility and space, but would definitely make it harder to use the back seat, which I use pretty infrequently if we're being honest.

Does a rooftop cargo box generally help with things, i.e. just store things like extra blankets, some food, etc up there as a just in case? Or is it not worth the mpg drop if the car is already big enough. Odds are that it's probably just going to be me in there anyway. If I could find a box that would fit my boards, that would be perfect, but I think they're too long for the most part. I've found some of the used 'x-cargo sport 20' ones that are about 67 inches long and the boards could go up there. Storing boards away from sleeping area could be pretty nice overnight.


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## smellysell (Oct 29, 2018)

ridethecliche said:


> So took some measurements of the back of the rav.
> 
> With the rear seats down, the total length is about 70 inches. If I move the passenger seat all the way forward, it's about 76 inches.
> 
> ...


You'll be way happier not having the boards in the sleeping area I would guess. How much do you have to hunch over to sit in the back? 

Sent from my Pixel 5 using Tapatalk


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## Powdertrax (Jan 28, 2018)

ridethecliche said:


> @Powdertrax
> I bought a v6 RAV4. It's a 2011. Bonus here is that I can tow 3500lbs. I honestly don't want to have to rip the back seats out because I live in an apartment and have nowhere to store them. The way the Rav4's rear is set up, taking out the seats would create some additional storage space, but not really any additional 'living' space so to speak because with the seats folded down, the space is pretty much flat. Removing the seats would require building a platform for a sleeping surface. I definitely think it could add more utility, but it would require a lot of doing. I'll take some measurements this evening and try to see what's feasible.
> 
> It would be awesome to make a trailer using one of the harbor freight trailers but I don't think it's a great idea to have a trailer when you're driving through sketchy and snowy conditions. It's also not stealthy at all.


Congrats on the rig.

Towing a trailer isn’t bad, snowmobilers do it every day, just Have to keep the trailer lite


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## ridethecliche (Feb 27, 2019)

smellysell said:


> You'll be way happier not having the boards in the sleeping area I would guess. How much do you have to hunch over to sit in the back?
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 5 using Tapatalk


Sorry, what do you mean, not having the boards in the sleeping area?

For just having me in it, I could probably make do with some plywood and just the rear passenger seat down and leave the driver rear seat up for being able to sit down and take gear off comfortably. Realistically, I was going to get a mattress topper or something to put on top of the wood to cover up the hinges or whatnot.



Powdertrax said:


> Congrats on the rig.
> 
> Towing a trailer isn’t bad, snowmobilers do it every day, just Have to keep the trailer lite


Snowmobiles tow with a sled though, right? Not something with wheels?

Friend suggested making a HF trailer into a camper as some have done to optimize things, but that would draw more attention to things and likely make parking a bit harder especially if I'm leaving straight from work or from my gf's place in philly (street parking only).

And thanks! The car has been awesome so far in the 5-6k miles I've had it. I mostly daily my 2010 miata in better weather, but I'm really looking forward to winter with a car that's built to handle things! My old acura just didn't quite cut it!


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## smellysell (Oct 29, 2018)

ridethecliche said:


> Sorry, what do you mean, not having the boards in the sleeping area?
> 
> For just having me in it, I could probably make do with some plywood and just the rear passenger seat down and leave the driver rear seat up for being able to sit down and take gear off comfortably. Realistically, I was going to get a mattress topper or something to put on top of the wood to cover up the hinges or whatnot.
> 
> ...


I mean having them in a box so you have more room will be nice.

Might give you enough room to set up a little cooking area, which is why I was asking what it's like sitting in the back. 

Sent from my Pixel 5 using Tapatalk


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## Powdertrax (Jan 28, 2018)

WigMar said:


> I had an Element, and it treated me well. I really liked the rubberized interior, traction control, suicide doors, and the rear seats. It always started and never gave me a problem at all. Those features didn't make up for how terrible of a vehicle it is though. It was exhausting to drive though the mountains because it's massively under powered and is very top heavy. As per the manual: "The maximum load for your vehicle is 675lbs for US models and 308kg for Canadian. This includes total wt for all occupants, cargo, accessories, and the tongue wt if you are towing a trailer." I'm over 400 pounds just with myself and an average buddy. As soon as we invite another friend or bring some gear with us, it's all over. If you overload the vehicle, you can bend the frame and then your windshield cracks every few thousand miles. Ask me how I know.
> 
> If they had built the Element off of the Pilot frame instead of a CRV, it would have been one of the greatest vehicles ever made. It would have more power, better handling, and a realistic maximum load. It's insane to offer all that space and then limit what you can carry so severely. As it stands, I see it as a missed opportunity that really disappoints me. I sold my Element, bought a Volvo XC90 which I greatly prefer, and had $10,000 left over. Best move I've made in a long time.


To each there own I guess, all I know is I’ve owned an Tundra, Sequoia, Pathfinder, Subaru and the Element was my favorite. As far as the windshield cracking Honda had a Service Bulletin on that, it was being caused by a high spot in the lower left/right side of the windshield frame. Honda replaced my windshield but prior to installing the new one they took a grinder to those high spots and applied primer/paint.

Volvo will be a maintenance money pit for you, I bought a brand new one and twice in the first month it was put on a flatbed back to the dealer and followed by a trade in, ask me how I know. I have not deviated from Honda or Toyota since


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## Powdertrax (Jan 28, 2018)

ridethecliche said:


> Sorry, what do you mean, not having the boards in the sleeping area?
> 
> For just having me in it, I could probably make do with some plywood and just the rear passenger seat down and leave the driver rear seat up for being able to sit down and take gear off comfortably. Realistically, I was going to get a mattress topper or something to put on top of the wood to cover up the hinges or whatnot.
> 
> ...


Snowmobiles being towed by trucks/SUV, I towed my snowmobiles on a really nice aluminum tilt trailer behind my Tundra. Build a Teardrop trailer on that Harbour freight trailer.


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## ridethecliche (Feb 27, 2019)

Powdertrax said:


> Snowmobiles being towed by trucks/SUV, I towed my snowmobiles on a really nice aluminum tilt trailer behind my Tundra. Build a Teardrop trailer on that Harbour freight trailer.



That's exactly what my friend was saying. I think it would be a great option for the future but right now I have space constraints as I couldn't really store it anywhere when it's not attached to the car. Parking in Philly with a trailer like that sounds awfullll!


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## ridethecliche (Feb 27, 2019)

Some additional developments...

Gonna pick up a small 2 burner propane stove today. It looks to be a vintage made in usa one so I'm pretty stoked.
Gonna pick up a roof box today. RIP gas mileage. I'd love to get something for the hitch, but it's going to be hard to store boards there and my trunk opens to the side which is going to make things even more difficult if I have to unload things before opening up the back every time.
Also going to pick up a small indoor/outdoor propane heater. I'll use that to get the car warm to start and then turn it off and use whatever battery setup I have to stay warm overnight. I'm not super down with running a propane heater overnight when I'm asleep but this should allow for the best utility imho.


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## Powdertrax (Jan 28, 2018)

ridethecliche said:


> Some additional developments...
> 
> Gonna pick up a small 2 burner propane stove today. It looks to be a vintage made in usa one so I'm pretty stoked.
> Gonna pick up a roof box today. RIP gas mileage. I'd love to get something for the hitch, but it's going to be hard to store boards there and my trunk opens to the side which is going to make things even more difficult if I have to unload things before opening up the back every time.
> Also going to pick up a small indoor/outdoor propane heater. I'll use that to get the car warm to start and then turn it off and use whatever battery setup I have to stay warm overnight. I'm not super down with running a propane heater overnight when I'm asleep but this should allow for the best utility imho.


I’ve had my Packasport system 90 for more them 30 year, Craigslist is a good place to find used ones from $300-$500. Dont worry if the gel coat finish is faded, I tried polishing compound but no luck so I just masked it off and rattlecanned it black. I’ve hauled firewood, bicycle wheels, tents, sleeping bag, stove, helmets and 5 snowboards or 4 snowboards with 2 pair of skis

The System90 dimensions are 89”long x 36”wide x 12”tall
Packasports biggest box is the System115 91”long x 44”wide x 14”tall


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## ridethecliche (Feb 27, 2019)

@Powdertrax I'll have to look up the packasports and better systems when I have a bit more disposable income for this. The one I picked up is an x-cargo sport 20. Basically a cheaper sears one made by thule. It should serve the purpose well imho... I just hope it doesn't shrek my mpg. 

The packasports and some of the more aero ones look really good. Hopefully next season!


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## smellysell (Oct 29, 2018)

Which propane stove did you get? They tend to be really temperamental in unventilated spaces, which they should be. Hope you have better luck than I did with my little buddy heater.

Also, pics will be required when you are all set. 

Sent from my Pixel 5 using Tapatalk


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## WigMar (Mar 17, 2019)

I use a catalytic heater in my bus. I think it's way better than my friend's Mr. Buddy heater. I'm not sure about using one in a car, but I think it would be fine if you could find a good place to mount it. A car is just a tiny bus, right?


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## ridethecliche (Feb 27, 2019)

I think the big thing for me right now is starting to put together the platform I want to build. It's going to be really hard to start arranging this stuff if I don't have it set up properly! I may be able to pull out the smaller of the two seats, which would really help with things re: storage space underneath while still preserving the space to have 1-2 passengers.



smellysell said:


> Which propane stove did you get? They tend to be really temperamental in unventilated spaces, which they should be. Hope you have better luck than I did with my little buddy heater.
> 
> Also, pics will be required when you are all set.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 5 using Tapatalk


Propane camping stove is just an old one I found on FB marketplace. I need to test it but the guy gave me propane tank for it.

Mr. Buddy heater will be used for warming up the car before I get in to sleep etc. Maybe 20-30 mins of run time. And then as a backup if I'm freezing my ass off. I can crack a window open. Main heat source, other than sleeping bag/blankets, is likely going to be a heating pad on battery. I'm trying to keep things 12V to minimize conversion loss through an inverter.



WigMar said:


> I use a catalytic heater in my bus. I think it's way better than my friend's Mr. Buddy heater. I'm not sure about using one in a car, but I think it would be fine if you could find a good place to mount it. A car is just a tiny bus, right?


Huge price difference. It's also not going to be the main heat source. More like a preheat and backup of sorts!


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## WigMar (Mar 17, 2019)

ridethecliche said:


> Huge price difference. It's also not going to be the main heat source. More like a preheat and backup of sorts!


No doubt! I use the largest one they make and run it all night really low when it's freezing or below. Can't do that with a Mr. Buddy, but I can see it being overkill in a car. I think a heated mattress pad could save me a little propane. The real struggle is keeping my significant other warm enough. I'd be comfy in an ice cave lol.


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## ridethecliche (Feb 27, 2019)

WigMar said:


> No doubt! I use the largest one they make and run it all night really low when it's freezing or below. Can't do that with a Mr. Buddy, but I can see it being overkill in a car. I think a heated mattress pad could save me a little propane. The real struggle is keeping my significant other warm enough. I'd be comfy in an ice cave lol.


So my plan is to get a heating pad very very little draw (~3amps preferably). I'm hoping to put together a 100ah battery to run on 12V for the heating pad and then have an inverter in case I need to charge other things without the car running. This is what I was thinking of. I honestly don't think you're going to need THAT much in terms of heat if your sleeping setup is well insulated.



https://www.walmart.com/ip/Facon-12Volt-Heater-Car-Seat-Cushion-with-3-Way-Temperature-Controller-for-Car-Trucks-Vehicle/903519212



25W on high, 18W on mid, 12W on low.
Even with the jackery pack that should be a decent amount of run time, but I think I want to try getting a battery separately and figuring that out. If I can pull a seat it would make a huge difference.


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## smellysell (Oct 29, 2018)

ridethecliche said:


> So my plan is to get a heating pad very very little draw (~3amps preferably). I'm hoping to put together a 100ah battery to run on 12V for the heating pad and then have an inverter in case I need to charge other things without the car running. This is what I was thinking of. I honestly don't think you're going to need THAT much in terms of heat if your sleeping setup is well insulated.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I agree, I don't think you'll need much in the way of heat especially with a nice sleeping bag. A lot of people like the Mr Buddy, mine would choke out when I tried it in the camper, even with all the windows open. Add elevation at it was even worse. Like I said, hopefully you have better luck.

In regards to arranging things, try to make as much of it non-permanent as possible, because after you use it a couple times, I almost guarantee you're going to want to change things around. 

Sent from my Pixel 5 using Tapatalk


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## mojo maestro (Jan 6, 2009)

Impreza hatchback.........roof board rack and yakima box up top............obviously multiple boards in rack.........sleeping pad/bags, chair, stove, food tote, cooler........all in rooftop box..........still have room in cab for a sesh with 2 friends.......passenger seat all the way forward...........use snow scrapper to depress clutch from the back seat to get car/heater going for those predawn starts.........cozy.............miss that subie...........


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## WigMar (Mar 17, 2019)

mojo maestro said:


> Impreza hatchback.........roof board rack and yakima box up top............obviously multiple boards in rack.........sleeping pad/bags, chair, stove, food tote, cooler........all in rooftop box..........still have room in cab for a sesh with 2 friends.......passenger seat all the way forward...........use snow scrapper to depress clutch from the back seat to get car/heater going for those predawn starts.........cozy.............miss that subie...........


It's super easy to disable the clutch safety switch.......


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## ridethecliche (Feb 27, 2019)

This is an afterthought of sorts I guess but I got this xcargo sport 20 box. Picture of box on car attached. 










There's another box that popped up locally which is a sears branded sport 20 sv. I'm curious if anyone thinks there's going to be much of a difference between the two in terms of aero. This second one has a swoop thing in the back which I thought would help but a friend commented that most of the cars designed for efficiency (like the prius) have a flatter profile. Pictures of second box follow. 


















Second box is more expensive but id probably get a bunch of money back for the one I have. 

Any thoughts?


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## BSstiffy (Nov 2, 2021)

ridethecliche said:


> Alright, I'm buying a new to me car and have a thread on that elsewhere.
> 
> One of the newer goals I have now is to potentially get something that I could crash in for single night overnight trips where I'd just need a bit of food, warmth, and a way to make coffee and get breakfast in the morning.
> 
> ...


You really do not need much I have an outback and have comfortably spent weeks in the road. If you have basic camping equipment you are set. Think of the car more as a tent then an RV or van life. But Seinfeld you don’t have to worry about weight of camping gear you can get a more comfortable air Mattress or a legit mattress for that matter. Crack the windows though especially in the winter or else you will wake up to ice on the inside of your glass.


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## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

ridethecliche said:


> This is an afterthought of sorts I guess but I got this xcargo sport 20 box. Picture of box on car attached.
> 
> View attachment 159581
> 
> ...


I think you want a longer box, like a skybox so that you can toss your board and gear in, while you sleep in the car. As far as profile efficiency...ehhh...ime it doesn't matter that much...they are all like wind sails. I can fit a scary amount of stuff in the skybox.


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## Manicmouse (Apr 7, 2014)

Found this research paper: https://aip.scitation.org/doi/pdf/10.1063/1.5092076

Now I need one comparing different sized boxes!


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## ridethecliche (Feb 27, 2019)

Manicmouse said:


> Found this research paper: https://aip.scitation.org/doi/pdf/10.1063/1.5092076
> 
> Now I need one comparing different sized boxes!


I read that the other day lol.

I need to find something with less height. I made it into my parking garage but scrape on some of it signs posted inside 🙃.


Fuarrrrkkkk!

I wonder if I can flip the rails on my roof rack. Should give me another two inches of clearance...


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## smellysell (Oct 29, 2018)

ridethecliche said:


> I read that the other day lol.
> 
> I need to find something with less height. I made it into my parking garage but scrape on some of it signs posted inside [emoji854].
> 
> ...


Is it long enough to fit your boards in? 

Sent from my Pixel 5 using Tapatalk


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## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

ridethecliche said:


> I read that the other day lol.
> 
> I need to find something with less height. I made it into my parking garage but scrape on some of it signs posted inside 🙃.
> 
> ...


Depending on your cares about your car, there are ways to just pad and set the box right on your car without racks.


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## Manicmouse (Apr 7, 2014)

The Yakima SkyBox 16 is quite slim and fits loads: SkyBox 16 Carbonite | Yakima

Works well for my family.


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## ridethecliche (Feb 27, 2019)

smellysell said:


> Is it long enough to fit your boards in?
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 5 using Tapatalk


Lololol. I'll grab one tomorrow and check.



Manicmouse said:


> The Yakima SkyBox 16 is quite slim and fits loads: SkyBox 16 Carbonite | Yakima
> 
> Works well for my family.
> 
> View attachment 159595


This looks quite nice. Unfortunately everything is sold out right now and I really don't want to spend like 600+ bucks on a setup right this second. 

I'm going to take off my antenna, put a bolt in where it sits, and try moving the box back on the car a bit. My roofline slopes down so it might give it some more clearance. 



wrathfuldeity said:


> Depending on your cares about your car, there are ways to just pad and set the box right on your car without racks.


I care about my car but ohhh wait I think I see what you're saying... I don't think I'm quite there yet tbh.


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## ridethecliche (Feb 27, 2019)

Took some measurements and this is what I came up with so far. 

I was thinking of having a more permanent table of sorts in the back and having a piece the same size with a hinge that can expand into the longer side for the sleeping area. To compensate for the front pass seat moving forward, I can have a small piece that I hang from the seat headrest or something and have it just lay on top or I can find a way to bolt it on. This is going to make space in the car a lot more efficient as well. 

I might take out the rear passenger side seat to make more room for storage and a battery setup but I'm curious if I can make do with keeping it there. 

Im also trying to sell my roof box and might be getting a different one next week. This one is like 5 inches shorter which should be quite helpful!


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