# Possible stance limitations for olie/box



## jamesdthomas2 (Nov 22, 2011)

I am 5'9, 165 lbs, ride 157 board, +15/-15, 21 inch wide. I have two problems:

1. I can pop easily 2 feet but I can only Ollie about 2 inches off ground. I have difficulty putting even weight on back foot to start the Ollie. Is this because I ride -15 on back foot? Would switching this to 0 make ollie easier. Would making stance wider or smaller make this easier?

2. When I am on a box, I would like to 180 off. But I fell paralized when riding flat base. I often stall out in the air and can only get I couple of inches off the ground no matter which type of jumping method I use. Should I Ollie or pop off the box to get the 180. 

I appreciate any help with this.


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## boarderaholic (Aug 13, 2007)

Try widening your stance a tad. I have often found that when it's set too close together, it's much harder to ollie.


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## slyder (Jan 18, 2010)

jamesdthomas2 said:


> But I fell paralyzed when riding flat base. I often stall out in the air and can only get I couple of inches off the ground no matter which type of jumping method I use. Should I Ollie or pop off the box to get the 180.


Are there 2 questions here? Can't ollie and can't 180??

The 180 try winding your upper body more so that when you start the spin you have a lot of momentum. Since you said you stall out before getting all the way around. Then once you start to get it you will probably be able to reduce some of that wind up.


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## jamesdthomas2 (Nov 22, 2011)

Thanks for your help. And yes there are two question.I can 180 just fine on snow. Do u think a different stance set up will help me do this easier on a box? I have cartel bindings and ride at F1. Will a less agressive lean help?


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## Nefarious (Dec 26, 2010)

I've got an army footlocker that i practice on at home. I propel myself up onto it with various spins. sometimes I land 5-0, sometimes boardslide.

Either way, see if you have something laying around home that you can practice on. You spend a few weeks practicing and your ollie will improve in no time. Try propelling yourself up without popping off a lip/edge. It'll help build your leg muscles up.


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## KnoxBoarderX (Aug 26, 2011)

Like it was said before, a wider stance will help you ollie easier. Mine is about 23.5 to 24 inches. 

As for the 180 off the I wouldn't try to ollie, just give a little pop.


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## gjsnowboarder (Sep 1, 2009)

jamesdthomas2 said:


> I am 5'9, 165 lbs, ride 157 board, +15/-15, 21 inch wide. I have two problems:
> 
> 1. I can pop easily 2 feet but I can only Ollie about 2 inches off ground. I have difficulty putting even weight on back foot to start the Ollie. Is this because I ride -15 on back foot? Would switching this to 0 make ollie easier. Would making stance wider or smaller make this easier?
> 
> ...


1.) It is probably your technique with olling that is the issue not your board set-up. Suggestions such as widening or narrowing your width of stance can change your range of motion and limit or help you either way. From your board and physical stats this most likely is not the case. That being said experimenting with your stance width is never a bad thing. If you do this experiment first by finding our how narrow and wide you can go first. Then start changing the width by smaller amounts till you have a spot that feels comfortable and lets your body have the max amount of motion both vertically and horizontally.


2.) a 180 DO NOT WIND( a large wind up can compromise your ability to move and have undesired consequences to how your board reacts to what is on top off) up a lot to 180 off a rail this will end in disaster. a 180 is a quick spin no need for a power rotation. These are two ways to 180 off of a rail. One is due to your stance on the rail your upper and lower body may already be countered to each other. In this case when 180 off the rail lossen up your core and your lower and upper body should come back into alignment. You may need to use some slight rotation to complete the spin, but it could be as simple as aiming your should and or hips in the direction of your landing. TWO, with your lower body move your legs like a pair of scissors (i.e. opposite of each other). This quick movement can be accomplished after the end of the rail or before leaving the end of the rail if popping off.


I saw an additional question about high back angle. A high angle of lean and make your board more twitchy due to increase response but it also help your center of mass be more centered over the board. a decrease foward lean can help dull the response of two to heel movements but it might reposition your center of mass to much toward the heel edge. Learning how to relax and also flex and extend your ankles maybe more important than any change in hi-back angle.

I suggest findin a flat area and a green evenly sloped run and trying the follwing two exercises.


For popping ollie. First on a flat surface experiment with moving your hips from nose to tail of snowboard. Notice how the board bends and moves. Next try moving you board underneath your till upper body by shuffling your feet underneath you. you may feel your feet rolling or pressuring from outside to inside of the foot when preforming this. Next combing the two movements. Try with straight legs and then with bent knees. Attempt to do nose and tail stands. Try to have your board rock back and forth(nose to tail) like a penedlum underneath you. After you have become comfotable with this. use the shuffling motion to move the nose of your board forward in the direction of the nose. at the same time move your hips back toward the tail (remember to keep your hips parrallel to what you are stand on. As your weight is shifted back toward your back foot and tail. Start picking up(pulling your front foot up toward you) and then jump of the back foot. Once you have accomplished this FLAT ollie. Practice landing different ways. Feet unevenly, feet togther, of the toeside to flat, off the toe side back on toeside, off the toeside onto heelside and the do the same for starting off the heel or from a flat base. Next take it to the sloped run. This hopefully will increase your height and comfort level with the ollie. Only AFTER feeling comfortable take it back into the park and more difficult terrain.

For 180's start on a flat surface pop off of both legs and spin with your shoulders first letting your lower body unwind by following you. Next jump again and this time with your core and hips aim your lead hip 180 degrees from the start. Next pop again and this time scissor your legs legs around. Try a few time by keeping your upper body in the same position and then try it with the upper body leading or following. Next strap the board on and practice again. Then take it up the hill again easier terrain for learning new things and practicing. Start by riding a traverse across the side of the run and practice popping of the uphill edge using the different 180'ing movements. Due it again by traverse back the other way on the opposite edge and then by being straight down the slope. Remember for straight down the slope and jumping of a flat base that you do not need a long run in. High speed will not help you relax so start off slow and build up to faster speeds. Once you feel like you have it down then take it back into the park. Starting slow and buildin up will help you build up muscle memory and body awareness which will help you be more successful when taking it into the park. anyone can thrash themselves on a rail/box trying a new trick and some will learn, some won't, and somewill get hurt. By breaking down your movements you can help decrease the pain for gain.


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## bubbachubba340 (Feb 10, 2009)

what I like to do in order to 360 off of a box, such as a 180 on switch tailpress 360 off is to turn my hips, shoulders and head almost 180 degrees from where my board is in the direction of the spin. Then when I hit the end of the box all it takes is a little pop of the nose(switch tail) and BAM the board spins right around with the rest of the body. This can be applied to 180s as well. Its really the exact opposite of prewinding


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## Peaceryder (Nov 21, 2011)

jamesdthomas2 said:


> I am 5'9, 165 lbs, ride 157 board, +15/-15, 21 inch wide. I have two problems:
> 
> 1. I can pop easily 2 feet but I can only Ollie about 2 inches off ground. I have difficulty putting even weight on back foot to start the Ollie. Is this because I ride -15 on back foot? Would switching this to 0 make ollie easier. Would making stance wider or smaller make this easier?
> 
> ...


Sounds to me like you need to work on your calf strength and timing. You should try to get someone to videotape you doing an ollie and popping just to see if there's maybe a way in which your body is working against you when you try to ollie. Maybe subconsciously you're stopping the ollie in it's tracks by improper weight distribution. Kinda like pushing down on one leg and trying to jump with it at the same time! I had major issues with this when I learned how to ollie on a skateboard. I can jump good, but sometimes you work against yourself without knowing it, lol. Tape it and then maybe you'll find a solution. The reason why I mentioned strength in the calf is that with an ollie it's all about quick twitch fibers in the calf and other areas. So if you're not very strong in that area, it could be why you aren't getting much vert even though as mentioned you can pop two feet high. I think the issue is more likely the ladder. Imagine trying to spin right but throwing your head and arms the opposite direction. I used to watch myself doing stuff with soccer/b.ball and mtn biking all the time and it's quite helpful.


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## lonerider (Apr 10, 2009)

jamesdthomas2 said:


> I am 5'9, 165 lbs, ride 157 board, +15/-15, 21 inch wide. I have two problems:
> 
> 1. I can pop easily 2 feet but I can only Ollie about 2 inches off ground. I have difficulty putting even weight on back foot to start the Ollie. Is this because I ride -15 on back foot? Would switching this to 0 make ollie easier. Would making stance wider or smaller make this easier?
> 
> ...


1. I'm 5'9" 155 lbs, I ride 15/-15, 21 inch wide myself on a 155 cm board and it really sounds like you have technique issues. I can ollie more than 2 on a 178 cm board riding +60/+55, 19.5" wide. It's really about timing and body control which you need to practice.

2. Again, it sound like you just haven't progressed far enough yet to do this trick if you still stall out air 180s and can only get a few inches off the ground on jumps.

Before you should try 50-50 to 180 off a box, you should be able to do the following progression:
- 50-50 (check),
- a clean 180 (definitely sounds like no), preferable both frontside and backside.
- a switch 50-50 (my guess is no)

To avoid stalling a frontside 180, you have to point your back shoulder to the front while in the air (your legs will follow). This is really easy to practice at home. Just stand in snowboard stance, then hop a 180, but focus on getting your back shoulder to rotate all the way around until it is the new "front" shoulder. Here is a video I took at a board sports trampoline class that shows what it looks like (just the first 5 seconds and I apologize for the background music).

For backside 180s, same idea... in this case you should make sure you front shoulder rotates all that way until it is pointing back along your direction of travel. You also need to be spotting (or looking) either back at the snow behind your tail, or at the snow between your feet... this is why it is a "blind rotation" as you have to look away from the direction you are going in. Many people make the mistake of always stare downhill... so their shoulders stop rotating in the air... and their rotation stalls.

Ok... you really need to master the above stuff first, but here's something to look forward to...
One way to do a 50-50 180 out, is to wind up for a frontside 180 with your shoulders (just counter-twist you shoulder/arms in the opposite direction), just pop/ride onto the box with them in that position, just hold hold hold the shoulders (don't open them up and turn your chest towards the end of the box) until you reach the end. Then let your shoulder unwind as you nose leaves the end of the box and the 180 will come naturally.


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## Cr0_Reps_Smit (Jun 27, 2009)

Snowolf said:


> Anticipatory rotation...:thumbsup:


this is exactly what you wanna do.as you get on the box you want to slowly rotate your UPPER body while keeping your lower body in the 50-50 position for as long as possible, you may even rotate there slightly towards the end of the box but thats ok, just give a little pop at the end to let you lower body catch up to your upper body and you complete the spin. doing this you will quickly find that you may even be able to 360 off a box/rail no problem.

as for the stance/ollie thing moving your back foot angle to 0 WILL NOT help you at all and will only limit your switch riding. sounds like its a timing thing, it should all meld into one fluid motion of loading your back foot and popping off it, you prob just need more practice at it.


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## jamesdthomas2 (Nov 22, 2011)

Thanks you guys. I cannot wait to try these suggestions out.

So my stance is not the reason I have trouble with Ollie.

I guess that's why I love snowboarding. I played a lot of basketball and foot ball growing up. I would consider myself an above average athlete. Most sports come easy but Snowboarding takes real skill.


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## CheeseForSteeze (May 11, 2011)

In that case, my snowboarding is the equivalent of this:


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## Peaceryder (Nov 21, 2011)

jamesdthomas2 said:


> Thanks you guys. I cannot wait to try these suggestions out.
> 
> So my stance is not the reason I have trouble with Ollie.
> 
> I guess that's why I love snowboarding. I played a lot of basketball and foot ball growing up. I would consider myself an above average athlete. Most sports come easy but Snowboarding takes real skill.


I'd assume from this statement that your upper body is more athletic than your lower body. Basketball will help your spins in other sports though. It's great how the more sports you do play, the better all those sports become. This is huge for anyone wanting to progress as a snowboarder. Riding steeps on a mtn bike is much sketchier than a double black run on a snowboard, so that preps you mentally and the fact that you're going faster down steeps on a bike and you have to more cautiously pick your lines- great for shredding. The spinning from b.ball or soccer lets you feel more comfortable twisting your body and knowing where your end point is for recovering balance. Speaking of balance, once you tried surfing, balancing on a snowboard is a cinch(not to discount others difficulties with it). Just that if you tried surfing, you'd know what I mean, haha. I love to encourage people to progress and my point of this is to play as many sports as possible, even if you're ONLY obsessed with snowboarding. Every sport on the planet can give aid to snowboarding from my perspective. Yes, some people are born with more athletic memory, but you can train it for the most part. I'd highly recommend downhill mtn biking for any snowboarder. It just helps that much.


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## jamesdthomas2 (Nov 22, 2011)

I finally figured out my issue. I ride burton cartels, which are consideder aggressive by most riders. But I ride them at F2. When ever I would stand up from crouched, my toe edge would rise slightly. But since I was on rails/boxes, I needed to be flat based. So,long story short. I set the bindings back to minimum forward lean and BAAAAMMMM!!! 2 ft Ollies and much better presses. Hope this helps someone.

FYI: I was riding a big forward lean cause it helped with heal edge at fast speeds.


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## haulinbass (Dec 10, 2011)

you might want to pick yourself up a skateboard and hit up some bowl/tranny parks to really learn how to pump transitions and such in the off season. as for spinning off of stuff like everyone has posted above turn your shoulders and your bodys natural reaction is to follow when you decide to pop off. The flat ollie is almost never used so dont sweat it too much. pumping transitions is everything


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