# Can't Find Ogio Flak Jacket? Welcome TNF Powder Guide Vest



## DrnknZag

I checked this out at TNF store in Whistler a few weeks ago. Pretty sweet little piece.

I think I caught a glimpse of it during TGR's One For the Road too, can't remember who though.


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## ShredLife

couldn't resist and ordered one from Tactics... hopefully its useful in some capacity...


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## hikeswithdogs

It's very cool but for that kind of money I can buy a AvaLung pack


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## killclimbz

That is actually a fairly ideal Sidecountry item. For stuff like the East Vail area, Loveland, or some of the Winterpark runs, that would be a slick item to have. For what I do in the backcountry, not so much.


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## ShredLife

i already have an avalung, and i wouldn't want it to be tethered to a single pack. i'd run my avalung with this thing.

the point of this thing is that it _isn't_ a backpack. i have a BD outlaw and a BCA Stash OB... lol shit i got so many fucking backpacks... maybe i'll sell one or two when this thing comes... 

anyway, this thing looks pretty good for yo-yo day trips out of the car or snowmobile. probably perfect for building on the resort and slack.

edit: depending on how much it weighs it could be great for taking out on multi-day trips where you are snowcamping in a base area and leaving most of your gear in the tent when you're out for the day...


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## hikeswithdogs

ShredLife said:


> i already have an avalung, and i wouldn't want it to be tethered to a single pack. i'd run my avalung with this thing.
> 
> the point of this thing is that it _isn't_ a backpack. i have a BD outlaw and a BCA Stash OB... lol shit i got so many fucking backpacks... maybe i'll sell one or two when this thing comes...
> 
> anyway, this thing looks pretty good for yo-yo day trips out of the car or snowmobile. probably perfect for building on the resort and slack.
> 
> edit: depending on how much it weighs it could be great for taking out on multi-day trips where you are snowcamping in a base area and leaving most of your gear in the tent when you're out for the day...


So do you run your avalung under your shell and if you were on a budget would you get this or an avalung first?


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## ShredLife

absolutely get an avalung first. this vest ain't gonna do shit to save your life. 

(disclaimer: i do not endorse or advise you to do this, but its what i did - and i would do it again. you will have to make your own decision.)

Black Diamond warns not to but i cut the sling off of my avalung sling. i strap it to my backpack shoulderstrap and the back of the pack with a velcro strap and a carabiner. i would rig it on this vest accordingly - looks like there are enough attachment points.


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## killclimbz

You *NEVER* run an avalung under your shell. That is not how it's designed to work. The Avalung II (sling model) is worn on the outside of your shell. Your pack goes on afterward. For this vest thing, not sure how it would work if at all actually.

First you should have a beacon, shovel, probe and have taken a Level 1. Then the Avalung. Or better yet get an airbag. I would definitely get an avalung over the vest if you are planning on doing any real backcountry riding in Utah. The snowpack there is less sketchy than Colorado but only slightly so...


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## killclimbz

Interesting mod there with the Avalung Shred. You feel that it is secure enough. I've read somewhere that even the Avalung packs can be prone to be ripped off of you in a powerful enough avalanche. I believe of course that the people in question probably didn't have the pack on tight. Open belt buckle, etc...


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## ShredLife

killclimbz said:


> You *NEVER* run an avalung under your shell. That is not how it's designed to work. The Avalung II (sling model) is worn on the outside of your shell. Your pack goes on afterward. For this vest thing, not sure how it would work if at all actually.
> 
> First you should have a beacon, shovel, probe and have taken a Level 1. Then the Avalung. Or better yet get an airbag. I would definitely get an avalung over the vest if you are planning on doing any real backcountry riding in Utah. The snowpack there is less sketchy than Colorado but only slightly so...


co-signed +1


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## ShredLife

killclimbz said:


> Interesting mod there with the Avalung Shred. You feel that it is secure enough. I've read somewhere that even the Avalung packs can be prone to be ripped off of you in a powerful enough avalanche. I believe of course that the people in question probably didn't have the pack on tight. Open belt buckle, etc...


i feel like its a small trade-off. obviously with the lung strapped to the shoulder-strap there is an increased chance in it separating during a slide. however, having the lung like i have it i can swap it to any pack or onto this vest and i do feel that it is pretty secure. it breathes the same so ok there. 

people complain about having the sling as something extra they have to take off when changing layers, and this solves that.... so yea - there is without a doubt increased risk with having it strapped how i do, but i feel like it is worth it for what i get. it means that i will be carrying the lung easier/more and that is what is important to me.


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## hikeswithdogs

killclimbz said:


> You *NEVER* run an avalung under your shell. That is not how it's designed to work. The Avalung II (sling model) is worn on the outside of your shell. Your pack goes on afterward. For this vest thing, not sure how it would work if at all actually.
> 
> First you should have a beacon, shovel, probe and have taken a Level 1. Then the Avalung. Or better yet get an airbag. I would definitely get an avalung over the vest if you are planning on doing any real backcountry riding in Utah. The snowpack there is less sketchy than Colorado but only slightly so...


Sorry in advance for Hijacking this thread

Guys the fact is I'm not gonna be able to afford to pay rent in Utah and buy all my avy gear this winter but I will(like always) be riding plenty of what I would describe as "slackcountry or sidecountry" around Brighton\Solitude and Snowbird when avalanche danger is in the "Moderate" or less range. I'm careful enough not to ride anything that hasn't already been ridden by several riders\skiers before me and not to ride anything to gnarly alone.

So knowing that what is the first thing I should buy, I mean I can bust out the credit card and go buy stuff but was really hoping to avoid that.


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## ShredLife

hikeswithdogs said:


> Sorry in advance for Hijacking this thread
> 
> Guys the fact is I'm not gonna be able to afford to pay rent in Utah and buy all my avy gear this winter but I will(like always) be riding plenty of what I would describe as "slackcountry or sidecountry" around Brighton\Solitude and Snowbird when avalanche danger is in the "Moderate" or less range. I'm careful enough not to ride anything that hasn't already been ridden by several riders\skiers before me and not to ride anything to gnarly alone.
> 
> So knowing that what is the first thing I should buy, I mean I can bust out the credit card and go buy stuff but was really hoping to avoid that.


as far as safety equipment goes #1 is beacon, shovel, probe. all three of em. you can save $ and buy a beacon used - although many would advise not to... most important thing is not that your gear is the latest and greatest new shit, but that you know how to use it. shovel and probe you can fo sho buy used and feel fine about it.


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## snowvols

I honestly don't like going out when it is moderate. Of course I will but I will keep it to lower angle stuff and follow safe protocol. I don't even think of venturing out of the gates on high or extreme days. It all depends on your risk and what you are comfortable risking. With a airbag pack I probably would be willing to take more risks: see Art of Flight. For your BC gear I got a hell of a deal on a beacon on CL. I have a shovel you could use if we ever go out, but that is the only extra gear I have. 

The thing about the riding somewhere someone else has isn't totally safe. We all weigh different and there are anchors under the snow that we could trigger something loose by making a turn in a smaller area no one else had. Also with temperature changing throughout the day, the snowpack changes as well. Which is why temp gradients are important. A thing you should always ask yourself, are you being a sheep? This applies to all decisions you make you never want to just follow someone else. Make your own decisions it is your life. 

/rant sorry I just hate hearing of accidents in the BC since it could be me next.


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## killclimbz

hikeswithdogs said:


> Sorry in advance for Hijacking this thread
> 
> Guys the fact is I'm not gonna be able to afford to pay rent in Utah and buy all my avy gear this winter but I will(like always) be riding plenty of what I would describe as "slackcountry or sidecountry" around Brighton\Solitude and Snowbird when avalanche danger is in the "Moderate" or less range. I'm careful enough not to ride anything that hasn't already been ridden by several riders\skiers before me and not to ride anything to gnarly alone.
> 
> So knowing that what is the first thing I should buy, I mean I can bust out the credit card and go buy stuff but was really hoping to avoid that.


As the others have stated, there is a lot that is wrong and flat out dangerous in what you are talking about. "Moderate" or less range is an overall condition. Any slope can be deadly. Just because someone has ridden doesn't mean shit. I've literally seen a slope with several tracks on it rip when the next person went. If you find the sweet spot, timing is wrong, you're done. 

Also, what good is an Avalung if you can't easily be found? There are stories of people in deep burials with avalungs who spit out the mouthpiece because the wait sucked. Better to have the beacon, probe, and shovel as mentioned. If have not at least taken a basic avy awareness class, then do so. Or find some savy backcountry riders who are willing to take you under your wing. What you are talking about, I know of at least three people on Berthoud Pass who said the same thing. All died on the pass. Same thing has happened in the slackcountry at places like Vail and Snowbird. 

All that said the beacon, shovel, and probe is your last ditch resource. Better to have a gun and not need it. Education is key. Read Staying Alive in Avalanche terrain by Bruce Tremper at the very least. You certainly can afford that. BC riding is a lot of fun, but it can also get ugly on you in a moment. If you and your buddies are not carrying that basic gear, you don't have a chance if the worst happens. 

Please don't take this as a tongue lashing, you've just got a little ways to go is all. It really sucks seeing someone at the trailhead in the morning and seeing their body pulled out in the afternoon.


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## hikeswithdogs

I get what your saying, its really not worth the risk and now that I'll be living somewhere(instead of vacationing) there won't be this pressure to ride as hard as I can because I only have 1 or 2 days at any one place.

Trying to find reviews or buyers guides on beacons, want something digital, will be easy to use and last me a lifetime.


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## snowvols

The best beacon is honestly the one you know how to use. Of course an analog beacon would be a straight pain in the ass, but I have seen some old school guys that will only use an analog signal. Check out the Pieps DSP and BCA Tracker both are popular beacons. Here is a pretty good site. Avalanche Beacon Reviews (Avalanche Transceivers)


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## ShredLife

an analog beacon is not a pain in the ass at all... i have an ortovox f1 that i still use and have no problem with it in practice. i haven't tech-spec'd beacons for a few years but i wanna say that the analog still has a better range than any digi... the real advantage to digis are their pinpointing and multi-burial capabilities.... 

one thing about technology in general (i feel) is that the more bells and whistles, the more systems in play, the more chance that something could malfunction. i'm not sure but i thought that there was a software issue on one model at one point... just things to think about. 

not to get down on the newest beacons - i'm sure they hold advantages as well.

you said it right first - the best beacon is the one you know how to use and practice using. 

my favorite beacon is my ortovox m2 - dual antenna, digi and analog.... runs on analog until you get in close, then it switches to digi for pinpoint search..


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## ShredLife

absolutely


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## snowvols

I guess I should have clarified when I said the analogs are a pain in the ass. I personally think a digi is easier to use as well as the features they offer. Such as the pinpointing and multiburial as you mentioned. I know there are people that prefer the analog signal, but since I am used to digital on my Pieps DSP that is what I like. 

I believe it was the Tracket 2? that had the issue. Don't quote me on that though but I believe I am correct.


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## killclimbz

Bobski, our former lead avalanche education instructor simply says get a digital beacon. He also says for those that think and analog is better that he'll beat you in a search, signal, multiple, whatever, every time. 

Analogs work, but you have to put so much more practice into using it efficiently. Which for the most disciplined of people is fine. For the other 99% of us it makes a lot more sense to simplify it. 

The Tracker 2 did have a software issue. An update is all it took to fix it. Any Tracker 2 on the shelf now should be fine.

I highly recommend getting a 3 antenna beacon. One of those just makes everything so much easier. A two antenna digital beacon will also work. Regardless of what you get, you still need to practice with it. They all have their quirks and you need to learn what those are.


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