# Straight airs and flatbasing



## walove (May 1, 2009)

Practice your ollies at speed.

If those are the thoughts that are coming to you, sounds like your not comfortable enough riding and popping at those speeds. Rip around out side of the park and look for rollers to pop nice ollies at the same speed. Some times you can ride around the lip of the jump, and ollie from the deck to the landing.


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## Cr0_Reps_Smit (Jun 27, 2009)

I actually think its better to pop off a jump with a slight amount of pressure on your toe edge as opposed to being flat based. you have more control and its easier to get good pop off your toes.


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## tokyo_dom (Jan 7, 2013)

I feel fairly comfortable ollying flatbased off 'wave runs', even at higher speeds. I actually backed out of the biggest Jump in this park i went to (it is a run of 4 jumps, each progressively bigger, last being 25-30ft?). It was mainly the fear of catching an edge on the kicker at the speed i was approaching it, so i just went to side of it and just ollied over the hip.

I have to admit, I cant remember ever having caught an edge while flatbasing with this board (K2 Parkstar - flat rocker), so perhaps its just a fear i have to get over. I suppose some of my fear about flatbasing is the possibility of being thrown heelside right before the launch. If i catch a toe edge i might be able to do something, but the thought of leaving heel edge and having the board come out in front of me is not cool. I read that story on here about the guy breaking his back because of a heel edge jump and dont want to repeat it.

Cr0, that is reassuring to hear.


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## Casual (Feb 9, 2011)

Just keep doing the smaller ones flat based until your not uncomfortable anymore... do not go off an an edge please, I kringe when I see this. Those making the comments like that may have found it works for them but 99% of the time I see people do this they are off balance in the air.

approach flat, stay flat, pop flat, land flat... end of story.


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## redlude97 (Jan 9, 2008)

Casual said:


> Just keep doing the smaller ones flat based until your not uncomfortable anymore... do not go off an an edge please, I kringe when I see this. Those making the comments like that may have found it works for them but 99% of the time I see people do this they are off balance in the air.
> 
> approach flat, stay flat, pop flat, land flat... end of story.


huh? popping off an edge is a prereq for just about any rotation past 180. Popping off an edge shouldn't throw you off balance.


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## Cr0_Reps_Smit (Jun 27, 2009)

Casual said:


> Just keep doing the smaller ones flat based until your not uncomfortable anymore... do not go off an an edge please, I kringe when I see this. Those making the comments like that may have found it works for them but 99% of the time I see people do this they are off balance in the air.
> 
> approach flat, stay flat, pop flat, land flat... end of story.


I said toe edge, not either. popping off your heel in a straight air will more then likely throw you off balance, while popping off your toes is much more natural and easier to keep your balance. 

popping flat base just doesn't make much sense really, plus i find its easier for your board to pivot by accident when trying to keep it flat causing someone to catch their edge off the jump.


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## Casual (Feb 9, 2011)

redlude97 said:


> huh? popping off an edge is a prereq for just about any rotation past 180. Popping off an edge shouldn't throw you off balance.


Obviously we have a disconnect. The OP is specifically asking about straight airs, not rotation, that would be a whole other conversation.

For straight airs I would never ever teach a new rider to favor any edge.

AASI teaches to pop from a flat base
Snowboard addiction teaches to pop from a flat base
Jumping with Jussie teaches to pop from a flat base

I could make this list very long but I'll stop there. The main point is if your teaching a new rider to jump you should be teaching them the safest most effective way, which is off a flat base.

I can pop off my heels and toes and do a nice straight air, but I'm an experienced rider and I would never teach these methods.


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## Extremo (Nov 6, 2008)

Cr0_Reps_Smit said:


> I said toe edge, not either. popping off your heel in a straight air will more then likely throw you off balance, while popping off your toes is much more natural and easier to keep your balance.
> 
> popping flat base just doesn't make much sense really, plus i find its easier for your board to pivot by accident when trying to keep it flat causing someone to catch their edge off the jump.


I find this is true with RC boards. They get squirly off the lip when flat based so it's def safer to pop off an edge, and obviously the best edge is toes.

But with camber, flat based straight airs all day.


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## redlude97 (Jan 9, 2008)

Casual said:


> Obviously we have a disconnect. The OP is specifically asking about straight airs, not rotation, that would be a whole other conversation.
> 
> For straight airs I would never ever teach a new rider to favor any edge.
> 
> ...


I guess we are talking subtle differences here then. If you watch the SA videos even when they say to pop flat based it looks like he is popping off his toes to some extent. IME pressuring an edge(toeside) is always better and makes for a more natural pop off the balls of your feet, similar to what Cr0 is implying as well. I'm not a instructor though and so what I teach others may not be optimal. I always teach them to pressure the toe edge and pop with the balls of their feet. Seems to work well and sets them up for rotations as edge angles just need to increase to precarve into rotations.


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## redlude97 (Jan 9, 2008)

Extremo said:


> I find this is true with RC boards. They get squirly off the lip when flat based so it's def safer to pop off an edge, and obviously the best edge is toes.
> 
> But with camber, flat based straight airs all day.


I ride mostly RC or straight rocker boards as well so maybe thats why I've naturally shifted to teaching this on edge technique. Haven't ridden camber for a long time but it does track much better flat basing.


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## Casual (Feb 9, 2011)

I understand RC getting squirly on flat, but on a curved transition the base is hitting the effective edge, I don't find it to be squirly myself. But IMO if a person isn't able to ride flat based without losing it (RC or Camber) they probably aren't ready for jumps.


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## tokyo_dom (Jan 7, 2013)

As I said, I don't mind flatbasing during regular riding, and can have no problems doing it over smaller jumps. But when I am hauling ass to make sure I clear the knuckle on a 20+ footer, its a different set of dangers.

And when I say keeping a toe edge, I don't mean enough to physically raise the heel off the snow - just enough to make sure I am 100 percent in control.

Also, for those saying "dead flat or back to the bunny hill for you!", are you saying that there is absolutely ZERO chance of catching an edge on the jump launch, as long as you are centered on the board and well balanced? Like I said I can't actually remember if I have caught an edge since getting this board, but I do have memories of catching edges in the past (on the hardpacked approaches to lifts etc). If it was a fresh groomed jump I wouldn't have any issues but these jumps were very used with lots of tracks leading up the face


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## Casual (Feb 9, 2011)

I'm saying there is more of a chance you will launch off balanced and crash taking off an edge for a straight air then catching an edge on the run in. I suppose both are possibilities.

I'm obviously getting some opposition here but that doesn't sway my answer. Like I said, AASI & many many other resources teach to pop off a flat base because it is the safest way for a rider to pop off a feature with balance and carry that balance in the air through to the landing.

Here are several videos I consider good quality instruction that show this technique. If somebody can show me a good video that's teaching to pop off an edge I'd like to see it.

Watch them, they all say it clearly, several times as well as making sure to say do not go off on any edge.

jumping with jussi straight air - YouTube
Intro to Jumping from Snowboard Addiction - YouTube
Learn How To Snowboard: Straight Air | Snowboard Tricks For Freestyle Snowboarding - YouTube
Straight Air Snowboard Trick Tip with Robett Hollis - YouTube


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## Casual (Feb 9, 2011)

Snowolf said:


> Sure, you can pop off of the lip totally flat based but it is a little *dead feeling*.


Snowolf I agree with you most of the time but on this one point I do not at all. I get tons off pop off a flat base, just as much as off my toe edge. Now one technical detail to point out, you always jump off your toes even from flat because that's the way the human body works as you extend your legs, you don't need to be on an edge as you go up the ramp for this to happen.


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## tokyo_dom (Jan 7, 2013)

Just for reference, i track pretty much dead straight when jumping and cant remember the last time i stacked it from off out of balance (though i am working on reducing arm movement in the air)

@Curious, are you saying this because "Its what they say to teach", or from personal jumping experience over bigger jumps? That is certainly not meant to be an insult, but looking at vids of Cr0 and his crew, they do some jumps i wouldnt dream of hitting yet

Here is a video a friend took of me last weekend; its very short, but its the only one that shows my approach to the jump. I basically just rolled off that launch (yet it was enough for me to land halfway down the landing spot). I did this flatbased, and you can see the board is both squirelly going up the ramp and then also in the air (though probably due to my arm movements)







*patiently waiting to hear that i am virtually doing everything wrong and should go back to leafing practice


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## CheeseForSteeze (May 11, 2011)

Your stance is countered (open) which tends to cause frontside rotation; that's why you're fighting for balance in the air.

You also never popped. The pop sets your trajectory and gives you control and stability. Fix both of those and your straight airs will clean up.


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## tokyo_dom (Jan 7, 2013)

Thanks for the tips.

Interesting to hear about the open shoulders... Dang i guess it is back to basics

Wont get to go boarding this weekend, but have plenty to look forward to the following weekend.


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## CheeseForSteeze (May 11, 2011)

It's not much but a bigger jump (looks like a 20 foot stepdown) means more speed and air which will exaggerate even slight technical problems.

The first thing I do every season is reup on my "air balance". I hit as many side hits and rollers as possible until I feel good again and then try some smaller jumps. You know your balance is good when your jumps feel clean, smooth and quiet.

I don't think you need to go back to basics, just go to some smaller jumps and work back up. Also, that inrun is pretty messy and could use a raking; that also was throwing your balance off.


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## Casual (Feb 9, 2011)

I am speaking from personal experience.

Good vid for feedback. Your back arm is reaching forward which is causing what CheeseForSteeze is saying about opening up causing FS rotation, he nailed that one. Popping will help as mentioned, not too hard but enough to set you up in the air, riding off like that tends to cause you to stay at the ramps trajectory, which is what happened to you there... backseat all the way. I have to say though that ramp does look pretty rutted out and shitty, I tend to find another jump or just go hit rails when the jumps get too rutted out because its just no fun and it can cause you to get hurt.

Here is a screenshot of your body position, you need to get that back hand over your board again so your shoulders are parallel and straighten your back a bit, your leaned over a bit at the hips. If you get that hand back you will run straighter and you won't start to feel rotation on the ramp and in the air.


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## tokyo_dom (Jan 7, 2013)

Sweet, thanks for the advice. 

I guess it was the rutted ramp which was causing me to get worried about flatbasing. Granted this was in the afternoon, and it seemed like that day it was mainly beginners out there (soo many people wiping out on the knuckle due to low speeds, last minute bailing etc).

Glad i did go back to basics with my jumps; lots to learn here


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## Casual (Feb 9, 2011)

Snowolf said:


> I think you may have taken my comments as suggesting to pop off from an edged board which I was not.


Fair play, I just like to be as clear as possible when explaining things like this to a progressing rider. Advanced riders have the ability to feel an edge, pop off an edge and know how to counter these types of motions.


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## Boardsnower (Sep 18, 2010)

Casual said:


> I am speaking from personal experience.
> 
> Good vid for feedback. Your back arm is reaching forward which is causing what CheeseForSteeze is saying about opening up causing FS rotation, he nailed that one. Popping will help as mentioned, not too hard but enough to set you up in the air, riding off like that tends to cause you to stay at the ramps trajectory, which is what happened to you there... backseat all the way. I have to say though that ramp does look pretty rutted out and shitty, I tend to find another jump or just go hit rails when the jumps get too rutted out because its just no fun and it can cause you to get hurt.
> 
> Here is a screenshot of your body position, you need to get that back hand over your board again so your shoulders are parallel and straighten your back a bit, your leaned over a bit at the hips. If you get that hand back you will run straighter and you won't start to feel rotation on the ramp and in the air.


I'm no expert, but I notice that a lot of pros and other experienced riders will often stick their rear arm straight back (over their tail) when approaching a large kicker. This may aid in balance and help to avoid opening up the shoulders, which can lead to the accidental frontside spin initiation.

I don't know if that technique is correct form (fundamentally), but it's something I've observed a lot.


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