# Lib Tech has lost its mind!



## blunted_nose (Apr 26, 2012)

Greedy is what greedy does. Specially from lib tech, a company who still cant wrap an edge completely around the board or produce a robust base.


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## njfastlfie (Dec 24, 2013)

i was thinking this VERY thing today. their prices are outrageous.


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## d15 (Jan 12, 2012)

blunted_nose said:


> Greedy is what greedy does. Specially from lib tech, a company who still cant wrap an edge completely around the board or produce a robust base.





njfastlfie said:


> i was thinking this VERY thing today. their prices are outrageous.


You people are clueless. You know that Olson does deliberate gimmick pricing for some of their models right?


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## BurtonAvenger (Aug 14, 2007)

I like their directional asym's they have going on that shit has me laughing.


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## fastaction (Nov 27, 2014)

I had a 2013-14 trice pro 153' model. I didnt like it and sold it to a friend. Magnetraction was to much for me here in the PNW


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## ridinbend (Aug 2, 2012)

They've gone designer. Gonna open a retail shop in Hollywood.


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## SnowDragon (Apr 23, 2012)

d15 said:


> You people are clueless. You know that Olson does deliberate gimmick pricing for some of their models right?


No, I don't know.
WTF is "gimmick pricing"?


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## Argo (Feb 25, 2010)

d15 said:


> You people are clueless. You know that Olson does deliberate gimmick pricing for some of their models right?


Yeah, one of their models is like $2400 because Olson builds it himself, supposedly....


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## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

I've been saying their prices are $100+ inflated for years.


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## scotty100 (Apr 3, 2012)

Plenty of threads last year where they got hammered on the quality of their high end Eco boards...shitty durability apparently.


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## cerebroside (Nov 6, 2012)

I just bought my first Lib Tech the other day (2014 Darker Series 164, though at 40% off). MSRP $699 in Canada. Their prices seem to be more or less in line with the other brands I was looking at?


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## ridinbend (Aug 2, 2012)

cerebroside said:


> I just bought my first Lib Tech the other day (2014 Darker Series 164, though at 40% off). MSRP $699 in Canada. Their prices seem to be more or less in line with the other brands I was looking at?


A lot of their boards come down in price after the season. I like what they do, I just can't afford a board at retail. I don't mind previous seasons gear personally.


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## cerebroside (Nov 6, 2012)

ridinbend said:


> A lot of their boards come down in price after the season. I like what they do, I just can't afford a board at retail. I don't mind previous seasons gear personally.


They seem to sell out reasonably consistently around here, couldn't find one locally so it's from online (Source boards). This one just popped up as being in stock, 164 only. Could swear they didn't have any last week, maybe it's a return or something. 
I'd say 40% is pretty much the standard discount for last season stuff no matter the brand.


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## ridinbend (Aug 2, 2012)

With that said, coming from the town where Lost surfboards originated, I will have to get the Lost collaboration pow killer with that thumb tail(it's a tail typically on a quad surfboard). And I'll be ok with retail. 



I know this is supposed to be a lib bashing thread but I couldn't help myself. :shrug:


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## timmytard (Mar 19, 2009)

ridinbend said:


> With that said, coming from the town where Lost surfboards originated, I will have to get the Lost collaboration pow killer with that thumb tail(it's a tail typically on a quad surfboard). And I'll be ok with retail.
> 
> 
> 
> I know this is supposed to be a lib bashing thread but I couldn't help myself. :shrug:


That looks sweet


TT


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## 24WERD (May 9, 2012)

No one that knows snowboarding ever pays full retail. That's for fools.

Snowboard industry has the highest inflated markup for retail.

It not a deal unless its at least 50% which is the norm for pretty much all products in the offseason.

LIbs could usually be bought between 175-300 during the offseason. They over produce the stuff and force the retailers to discount it to move it in the offseason.

Don't ever pay retail ever. or shipping or taxes.


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## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

24WERD said:


> No one that knows snowboarding ever pays full retail. That's for fools.
> 
> Snowboard industry has the highest inflated markup for retail.
> 
> ...


And this information is coming from...?


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## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

I'd suspect the elevated prices is for the new relative corperate shareholders that want more $ in their dividends. Perhaps the new owner's of Merv are not passionate about snow but to their portfolio. 

Quiksilver sells Mervin Manufacturing


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## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

That would only be the case if they're raising the existing boards prices. Charging that much for a brand new board doesn't demonstrate that.


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## Mizu Kuma (Apr 13, 2014)

ridinbend said:


> With that said, coming from the town where Lost surfboards originated, I will have to get the Lost collaboration pow killer with that thumb tail(it's a tail typically on a quad surfboard). And I'll be ok with retail.
> 
> 
> 
> I know this is supposed to be a lib bashing thread but I couldn't help myself. :shrug:


Please buy one for me also?????


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## Mizu Kuma (Apr 13, 2014)

Nivek said:


> And this information is coming from...?


www.lalaland.com


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## ridinbend (Aug 2, 2012)

Mizu Kuma said:


> Please buy one for me also?????


Last two seasons I've bought one board at retail. It hurts dishing it out but in the end it's more than worth it. Next season,one deck and this is on the list. Every other board I get is at least 50% off retail. Point being, I won't be able to get one for you Mizu. I'm sorry.


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## SnowDragon (Apr 23, 2012)

24WERD said:


> LIbs could usually be bought between 175-300 during the offseason. They over produce the stuff and force the retailers to discount it to move it in the offseason.


1. Please point me to those websites selling Libs for 175-300.

2. Once the boards are sold to retailers, Lib cannot "force" retailers to discount them at all. And why would Lib care anyway? They've sold their boards.


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## Lamps (Sep 3, 2011)

GreyDragon said:


> 1. Please point me to those websites selling Libs for 175-300.
> 
> 2. Once the boards are sold to retailers, Lib cannot "force" retailers to discount them at all. And why would Lib care anyway? They've sold their boards.


I dunno about 'forcing' but when a manufacturer sets high minimum order sizes for its dealers this can result in deep discounts at end of season. No idea what lib tech does.


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## cbrenthus (Feb 12, 2014)

The bottom line is the price you pay. Manufacturers can set the MSRP at whatever they want, and it helps their vendors because they can sell much less than msrp and the customer thinks they're getting a deal. That being said, as a lib tech TRS owner, i do believe for the money there is better quality out there in the form of fully wrapped edges and sintered bases


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## f00bar (Mar 6, 2014)

I think it's more along the lines that the stores can't sell for less than MSRP until they get the go ahead from lib, or who ever. If you see them at a discount during peak it's usually a package deal where the real break is on the bindings as the stores have some wiggle room there.

Just like Saudi Arabia and cheap oil you can argue whether they are helping or hurting themselves in the long run, but it is how the industry works.


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## ridinbend (Aug 2, 2012)

Msrp is usually double warehouse cost. Warehouse cost is the price sold to retailers. Retailers cover their cost at 50% off.


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## cbrenthus (Feb 12, 2014)

f00bar said:


> I think it's more along the lines that the stores can't sell for less than MSRP until they get the go ahead from lib, or who ever. If you see them at a discount during peak it's usually a package deal where the real break is on the bindings as the stores have some wiggle room there.
> 
> Just like Saudi Arabia and cheap oil you can argue whether they are helping or hurting themselves in the long run, but it is how the industry works.


Depends on the manufacturer - some manufacturers have this agreement, others don't care what the vendors sell for. Bose, at least back in '02 when I sold retail electronics, had a tight hold on pricing and if you were caught selling for less than msrp you could have problems, any sale came from Bose, not the retailer. I dont know what lib tech requires of manufacturers


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## BurtonAvenger (Aug 14, 2007)

Whole lot of people that have clearly never worked in the snowboard industry or a snowboard shop talking out their ass in here. 

Hard good margins are shit. Any good shop makes their money off moving volume in hard goods or has exceptional soft goods. 

Soft goods = best margins and lowest overhead.


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## f00bar (Mar 6, 2014)

BurtonAvenger said:


> Whole lot of people that have clearly never worked in the snowboard industry or a snowboard shop talking out their ass in here.
> 
> Hard good margins are shit. Any good shop makes their money off moving volume in hard goods or has exceptional soft goods.
> 
> Soft goods = best margins and lowest overhead.


I'm sure I'm in that category. But it seems a logical conclusion that price is dictated during peak season as you can't find anything other than MSRP anywhere until a certain point, then everyone discounts.

Maybe they just like to screw me over but I've never been able to budge them from MSRP prior to end of season on just a board even if they know I'll just walk out the door.


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## BurtonAvenger (Aug 14, 2007)

f00bar said:


> I'm sure I'm in that category. But it seems a logical conclusion that price is dictated during peak season as you can't find anything other than MSRP anywhere until a certain point, then everyone discounts.
> 
> Maybe they just like to screw me over but I've never been able to budge them from MSRP prior to end of season on just a board even if they know I'll just walk out the door.


How is MSRP screwing you over? Explain that one to me it's business. 

Factory has to make money, brand has to make money, shop has to make money. If no one makes money then everything goes out of business. Where is this stupid fucking logic coming from?

It's like people don't understand basic economics anymore.


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## AgingPunk (Feb 18, 2014)

People understand basic Econ 101 when it applies to them: I work I get paid. However when most people shop it's fuck you give it to me cheaper. Who cares if it drives down wages, dislocates jobs or screws the environment. Look at the small business crushing power of WalMart or Target: they come to town and like dominoes competitors fall. Nature of the beast, sure. Do I have to participate, absolutely fucking not. Do your best to buy at least your durable goods (lifespan 2 years or greater) that keep profits and as many jobs as possible local.


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## f00bar (Mar 6, 2014)

BurtonAvenger said:


> How is MSRP screwing you over? Explain that one to me it's business.
> 
> Factory has to make money, brand has to make money, shop has to make money. If no one makes money then everything goes out of business. Where is this stupid fucking logic coming from?
> 
> It's like people don't understand basic economics anymore.


Whens the last time you gave someone a high five for paying MSRP at a car dealership? No, you'd tell them how much they got screwed.


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## cerebroside (Nov 6, 2012)

f00bar said:


> Whens the last time you gave someone a high five for paying MSRP at a car dealership? No, you'd tell them how much they got screwed.


You're not buying a car, you're buying a snowboard. Do you try to haggle at the gas station?


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## AgingPunk (Feb 18, 2014)

1st off, unless you're rolling in it, don't buy a new car that loses up to 20% of value in the first mile you drive


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## Extazy (Feb 27, 2014)

I think they can do it, their boards are very popular. At least here in East Coast. All I see is Libs, Burton, some GNU and a little of Never summer and Arbor.

I know a guy who owns 7 libs... I think he doesn't own any other brand.

I also think Libs are over hyped a bit, and that gives them upper hand.


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## Extazy (Feb 27, 2014)

Ha just from Quiver thread



Jkdrums said:


> New member here! Finally got back into riding this year. I've been away from it due to my crazy touring schedule the past 5 years. Feels good to be back on snow instead of seeing pictures my wife would send me. Haha! Anyway here is my collection. I bought all new this year minus my 2007 T. Rice. I've been a camber rider since 1997 and all this new tech really blew me away, so I decided to buy all the setups Lib Tech has to offer or damn near close.
> 
> 2007 Lib Tech T. Rice "the contradiction" 157
> 2014 Jaime Lynn Nude 157
> ...


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## BoardChitless (Mar 11, 2013)

Call me whatevs, but I don't think any company, besides Burton or maybe Sims, has done more for the sport/industry of snowboarding(as of lately)!

I really really respect Mervin corp, and have always wanted a Billy Goat from Gnu even though I don't always see the durability from lib or gnu that flirts my wallet to spend coin.

Guess I am one of those who won't buy Mervin at msrp. Their ol' Freedom Dolly skateboards, were the best cruising boards ever made IMO. Was more upset about them letting go of that brand then being bought out last year.

No matter what, you knock Mervin, and you seriously knock the whole fn industry. They are trying to innovate & innovate, and with that, comes legit unexpected R&D costs that probably did not go hand-in-hand with their projected budgets. 

Mervin takes risks on new tech... So I will always support them, and I still fancy a Billy Goat, or hoping Nico comes out with his own personal signature sleigh.

Hate all you want, Mervin boards are the chit!!!


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## Jkdrums (Jan 20, 2015)

extazy said:


> ha just from quiver thread
> 
> 
> 
> ...




hi fiiiiive!


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

Extazy said:


> Ha just from Quiver thread


Only 1 of those is 2015. So i dont think he paid MSRP for all of them.

So... Hi Five to JK for not paying retail


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## f00bar (Mar 6, 2014)

My intent wasn't to bring up pricing as good or bad, I shouldn't have put the screwed part in there as the only time a shop really screws you is if they sell you on an item that doesn't really fit what you want/need. I'm actually fairly sympathetic to the plight of the local shop and have no problem paying premium if the service makes up the cost.

All I meant by it was that it at least appears that many prices are controlled by the manufacturer, not the shops. This isn't unusual in other industries. In which case the 'S' in MSRP doesn't really exist in the business model until they say so.


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## Jkdrums (Jan 20, 2015)

F1EA said:


> Extazy said:
> 
> 
> > Ha just from Quiver thread
> ...



That's exactly why I said it! It killed me to pay full price for the T Rice ... Oh well I love all the boards and I should be good for at least 5 seasons


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## lab49232 (Sep 13, 2011)

The amount of stupid in this thread is insane. You people are clueless and have zero idea what you're talking about. First off every brand cares a whole hell of a lot about what their retailers sell their product for as it affects brand image, second brands do want their retailers to sell out, it increases orders and keeps stuff from going to closeout. I should go on and on for hours about how the industry works but that would apparently be lost on many of you. 

If you think shops make 50% margin on hardgoods like snowboards let me just say this, a lot of you buying your boards on discount from shops, those shops are losing money in the end selling the boards in March or later.


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## the grouch (Feb 18, 2014)

f00bar said:


> My intent wasn't to bring up pricing as good or bad, I shouldn't have put the screwed part in there as the only time a shop really screws you is if they sell you on an item that doesn't really fit what you want/need. I'm actually fairly sympathetic to the plight of the local shop and have no problem paying premium if the service makes up the cost.
> 
> All I meant by it was that it at least appears that many prices are controlled by the manufacturer, not the shops. This isn't unusual in other industries. In which case the 'S' in MSRP doesn't really exist in the business model until they say so.


It is a suggested retail price because they cannot force the retailer to sell for that price. Once the retailer buys it from them, the retailer can sell at whatever price they want. They may not be able to purchase from the manufacturer again, but they can do as they please with the stock in hand.

As an aside, someone up thread compared snowboard buying to car buying. Yes, you rarely pay full MSRP for cars these days. Unless you want the latest Camaro Zl1, or Nissan GTR, etc... then you pay MSRP PLUS dealer mark up. Snowboards seem similar to me, want the latest and greatest at the start of the season when demand is high? You pay full price. Willing to wait for demand to drop? You can get a deal.


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## f00bar (Mar 6, 2014)

lab49232 said:


> The amount of stupid in this thread is insane. You people are clueless and have zero idea what you're talking about. First off every brand cares a whole hell of a lot about what their retailers sell their product for as it affects brand image, second brands do want their retailers to sell out, it increases orders and keeps stuff from going to closeout. I should go on and on for hours about how the industry works but that would apparently be lost on many of you.
> 
> If you think shops make 50% margin on hardgoods like snowboards let me just say this, a lot of you buying your boards on discount from shops, those shops are losing money in the end selling the boards in March or later.


Doesn't matter if they lose money on a particular unit if they make money on the lot. It's a game between carrying too much stock that you lose your shirt come summer or not carrying enough of what you need losing a full ticket sale you could have had. If Feb comes and they have no stock then they've probably left money on the table. If May comes and they still have 50% of it left they are probably gonna take it in the chin at 40% discounts.

The shops that do this well stay in business, those that don't...


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## cerebroside (Nov 6, 2012)

lab49232 said:


> The amount of stupid in this thread is insane. You people are clueless and have zero idea what you're talking about. First off every brand cares a whole hell of a lot about what their retailers sell their product for as it affects brand image, second brands do want their retailers to sell out, it increases orders and keeps stuff from going to closeout. I should go on and on for hours about how the industry works but that would apparently be lost on many of you.
> 
> If you think shops make 50% margin on hardgoods like snowboards let me just say this, a lot of you buying your boards on discount from shops, those shops are losing money in the end selling the boards in March or later.


No doubt. Just saying Lib (or the shops that stock them) seem to do a pretty good job of getting rid of their inventory, so buying last years model generally isn't an option (at least when I've looked). Good for them.
On the other hand I could basically get my pick of previous season Ride boards/bindings, even now.

FWIW I would have payed full MSRP if the 2014 Darker didn't pop up on sale, though I was leaning towards the GNU Billy Goat because I don't like the 2015 Darker topsheet.


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## lab49232 (Sep 13, 2011)

f00bar said:


> Doesn't matter if they lose money on a particular unit if they make money on the lot. It's a game between carrying too much stock that you lose your shirt come summer or not carrying enough of what you need losing a full ticket sale you could have had. If Feb comes and they have no stock then they've probably left money on the table. If May comes and they still have 50% of it left they are probably gonna take it in the chin at 40% discounts.
> 
> The shops that do this well stay in business, those that don't...


Obviously, but what do you think average margin for a successful shop is at the end of a season? and what do you thing MSRP mark up is for a shop? Because the numbers and beliefs people are throwing around here aren't close. 

And for everyone else there's a whole thing called MAP pricing, sometimes it's msrp, sometimes it's slightly less, but obviously only a few people here actually know what that is and it's what dictates pricing in shops.


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## f00bar (Mar 6, 2014)

lab49232 said:


> Obviously, but what do you think average margin for a successful shop is at the end of a season? and what do you thing MSRP mark up is for a shop? Because the numbers and beliefs people are throwing around here aren't close.
> 
> And for everyone else there's a whole thing called MAP pricing, sometimes it's msrp, sometimes it's slightly less, but obviously only a few people here actually know what that is and it's what dictates pricing in shops.


I have no idea, nor honestly do I really care who makes how much. My only question was where the price control comes from, the shop or the supplier. We throw around MSRP as it's what's on the sticker we all see on the board, but more than likely they are held to a map price per agreements which happens to the same as msrp in 99% of the cases and at some point that expires. Or maybe not and shops are just really simplistic in their pricing.


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## kdirt (Jan 28, 2011)

If someone is willing to buy a board for the MSRP of 579.99 then guess what, that company has done a great job of building it's brand. You dont pay $300 for Gucci sneakers cause they're worth it, you do it for the name.

It's pretty simple, if you want a Lib then pay retail or wait till February/March to buy one. I just bought the Attack Banana, but I wouldn't pull the trigger till I found a sale. Found a local shop at 20% off and I'm happy.

Only thing I will say is their gimmicky technologies are a bit much. Now with the TRS Firepower and a 800 price tag, that's kinda crazy, but whatever. If people will pay for it then more power to them. I'll just wait for the sales because they are great boards.


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## snowklinger (Aug 30, 2011)

If you can afford to choose to snowboard, you can afford to choose a Lib if you want one.


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## lab49232 (Sep 13, 2011)

f00bar said:


> I have no idea, nor honestly do I really care who makes how much. My only question was where the price control comes from, the shop or the supplier. We throw around MSRP as it's what's on the sticker we all see on the board, but more than likely they are held to a map price per agreements which happens to the same as msrp in 99% of the cases and at some point that expires. Or maybe not and shops are just really simplistic in their pricing.


Pricing comes from a few areas, it's not remotely simple. There is MAP on hardgoods. MAP is obviously controlled by manufacturers. After MAP ends with the season retailers control price obviously. However if brands over produce as was the case for the past 6 seasons (getting better now) you get tons on closeouts. Look at goggles for example. We've been trained to buy $200 goggles at $90 on close out because there's so many left over and the brands did a poor job at restricting shops they have an account with. Retailers can't move product because sales are spread thin across 80 million shops. Now retailers can't move a $200 goggle that they bought for$130 and get stuck selling it at $90 because forums like this tell people that's what they should expect to pay and that retailers can afford it. 

You'll notice that about the time the snow industry started really suffering happens to be about the same time everybody decided they can wait until closeouts come around to buy their gear.


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## miplatt88 (May 13, 2013)

lab49232 said:


> Pricing comes from a few areas, it's not remotely simple. There is MAP on hardgoods. MAP is obviously controlled by manufacturers. After MAP ends with the season retailers control price obviously. However if brands over produce as was the case for the past 6 seasons (getting better now) you get tons on closeouts. Look at goggles for example. We've been trained to buy $200 goggles at $90 on close out because there's so many left over and the brands did a poor job at restricting shops they have an account with. Retailers can't move product because sales are spread thin across 80 million shops. Now retailers can't move a $200 goggle that they bought for$130 and get stuck selling it at $90 because forums like this tell people that's what they should expect to pay and that retailers can afford it.
> 
> You'll notice that about the time the snow industry started really suffering happens to be about the same time everybody decided they can wait until closeouts come around to buy their gear.



Then that is the industries fault. Blaming the consumer because they don't want to spend $200 bucks on a pair of goggles is asinine. The retailer may have paid $130 for the goggles but if the consumer won't pay that much then its not worth $130. Free market capitalism at its best.... A product may cost 200 bucks to produce but if someone is only going to pay 90 then it is only worth 90.


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## lab49232 (Sep 13, 2011)

That's not to say you shouldn't buy at closeout, obviously it doesn't make sense to pay full price if you don't have to. But the people here who think shops are still making money or that initial mark up is 50% or even more, or that you should be able to talk people down in season on pricing because shops can afford it, is just pure ignorance. Buying at a discount makes shops absolutely no money and the people here who preach buying local to support your local shop, but then try to get 20-40% off, that doesn't help your local shop, it kills them. It is the industry's fault entirely. It's the misinformation in this thread that I have a problem with. Not buying at closeout.


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## the grouch (Feb 18, 2014)

lab49232 said:


> Pricing comes from a few areas, it's not remotely simple. There is MAP on hardgoods. MAP is obviously controlled by manufacturers. After MAP ends with the season retailers control price obviously. However if brands over produce as was the case for the past 6 seasons (getting better now) you get tons on closeouts. Look at goggles for example. We've been trained to buy $200 goggles at $90 on close out because there's so many left over and the brands did a poor job at restricting shops they have an account with. Retailers can't move product because sales are spread thin across 80 million shops. Now retailers can't move a $200 goggle that they bought for$130 and get stuck selling it at $90 because forums like this tell people that's what they should expect to pay and that retailers can afford it.
> 
> You'll notice that about the time the snow industry started really suffering happens to be about the same time everybody decided they can wait until closeouts come around to buy their gear.


Excellent post. 
MAP: Minimum Advertised Priced. Funny, the car industry has the same problem (people got used to buying with high discounts/zero interest loans and now expect and even demand to get them) 
It is very telling -and sad, to see how many people can't understand the difference between markup and profit.


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## miplatt88 (May 13, 2013)

BurtonAvenger said:


> How is MSRP screwing you over? Explain that one to me it's business.
> 
> Factory has to make money, brand has to make money, shop has to make money. If no one makes money then everything goes out of business. Where is this stupid fucking logic coming from?
> 
> It's like people don't understand basic economics anymore.


Agreed that the factory, brand, and shop has to make money. But people in the snowboard/ski world are conditioned to being able to buy during the off season for substantially lower prices. If brands would stop over producing, there would be nothing to buy during the off season closeout. Thus you could charge MSRP and people would have to pay it. As it stands now, if I want a snowboard I wait till off season as does every other person on a budget.


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## snowklinger (Aug 30, 2011)

*none of u is THAT poor, sack up and support snowboarding*

I have a couple friends who own shops and can say that the only reason they do it is for the love of the local community of their sport. They hover at bankruptcy and refinance their homes to stay open. Go in there with a fistfull of your money and buy expensive shit, bitches.


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## f00bar (Mar 6, 2014)

lab49232 said:


> That's not to say you shouldn't buy at closeout, obviously it doesn't make sense to pay full price if you don't have to. But the people here who think shops are still making money or that initial mark up is 50% or even more, or that you should be able to talk people down in season on pricing because shops can afford it, is just pure ignorance. Buying at a discount makes shops absolutely no money and the people here who preach buying local to support your local shop, but then try to get 20-40% off, that doesn't help your local shop, it kills them. It is the industry's fault entirely. It's the misinformation in this thread that I have a problem with. Not buying at closeout.


To get a sale from me all they typically would have to do is cover sales tax. 6% and I'd buy local all day long. I know the game is rigged against them because of that but I didn't make the rules.


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## lab49232 (Sep 13, 2011)

As for what Lib does right and why they can charge what they want: They have been super restrictive in opening new accounts for the past few years, not so much with their Gnu line. Limit the number of places you can buy their product it increases sell through for the accounts they do have. Lib's been pretty decent at preventing close outs, of course some of that maybe them keeping some of their boards from ever making it on the market to. Meeting 90% of inline demand for a brand keeps prices up.


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## miplatt88 (May 13, 2013)

I understand it would kinda hurt local shops but I am kinda surprised they do not price match online retail stores like Backcountry. It may hurt in the short term, but I would be willing to bet that over the long haul it would lead to alot of repeat business.


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## snowklinger (Aug 30, 2011)

miplatt88 said:


> I understand it would kinda hurt local shops but I am kinda surprised they do not price match online retail stores like Backcountry. It may hurt in the short term, but I would be willing to bet that over the long haul it would lead to alot of repeat business.


Backcountry is cool when you have a ton of backlogged goods to get rid of, but in terms of price matching thats just silly. You may as well close every brick and mortar yourself.


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## lab49232 (Sep 13, 2011)

miplatt88 said:


> I understand it would kinda hurt local shops but I am kinda surprised they do not price match online retail stores like Backcountry. It may hurt in the short term, but I would be willing to bet that over the long haul it would lead to alot of repeat business.


Backcountry is actually a mega corporation. They own about 6 or 7 different online snowboard shops, A mega solar farm and a bunch of other companies in other industries. Money and funding for them is endless compared to a snow retailer.


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## miplatt88 (May 13, 2013)

It may be difficult for them to stay open with a price match policy but what does that change? They have issues staying open anyways. And unfortunately for board shops, until they can match the price of the online retailers, people will take their business online.


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## lab49232 (Sep 13, 2011)

miplatt88 said:


> It may be difficult for them to stay open with a price match policy but what does that change? They have issues staying open anyways. And unfortunately for board shops, until they can match the price of the online retailers, people will take their business online.


Inline regular season they can match if they're selling stuff. It's closeouts that become the problem. Small briock and mortar have to be perfect on predicting sellthrough. Backcountry can sell out of season stuff at a loss, brick and mortar can't which is why closeouts kill small shops. Companies like Backcountry can buy a ton of inventory, flood the market and then push small companies out of business by selling it a loss later since people will wait to buy until end of season and then the small shops sell nothing in season when they are actually making money on the product. Predatory pricing, it's basic econ and part of how if Amazon wants they can take over the world.


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## snowklinger (Aug 30, 2011)

lab49232 said:


> Predatory pricing, it's basic econ and part of how if Amazon wants they can take over the world.


All they need to do is convince Google to be the head of their SS.

fuck I better delete this....!!


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## Banjo (Jan 29, 2013)

speaking of all this pricing jibbery-joo, here in CAN im always shocked how low they price Rossignol boards at Sportchek it the beginning/middle of the season. 

I consider Rossi boards well made but having this years Krypto and Jibsaw at under $200 is maddness.

so is a snowboard priced at over $550MSRP...I dont care if it has wings thats too much for something im going to slide over a rock at full speed


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## the grouch (Feb 18, 2014)

lab49232 said:


> Inline regular season they can match if they're selling stuff. It's closeouts that become the problem. Small briock and mortar have to be perfect on predicting sellthrough. Backcountry can sell out of season stuff at a loss, brick and mortar can't which is why closeouts kill small shops. Companies like Backcountry can buy a ton of inventory, flood the market and then push small companies out of business by selling it a loss later since people will wait to buy until end of season and then the small shops sell nothing in season when they are actually making money on the product. Predatory pricing, it's basic econ and part of how if Amazon wants they can take over the world.


And even during the regular season a brick and mortar shop would struggle to match an online operation. The online shop should always have lower overhead than a store with a retail front.


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## lab49232 (Sep 13, 2011)

the grouch said:


> And even during the regular season a brick and mortar shop would struggle to match an online operation. The online shop should always have lower overhead than a store with a retail front.


Yes and no. People don't realize how expensive it is to sell online. Online customer acquisition is terribly expensive as Google and Amazon charge a ton for advertising with them. Then shipping which is ridiculous. They often have the same number or more employees to manage their shipping facilities, unless of course they outsource that which adds an extra expense. The main advantage they do have is warehouse space is cheaper than storefront space. Online margins are usually thinner but they make up for it in bulk.


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## Mizu Kuma (Apr 13, 2014)

BurtonAvenger said:


> Whole lot of people that have clearly never worked in the snowboard industry or a snowboard shop talking out their ass in here.
> 
> Hard good margins are shit. Any good shop makes their money off moving volume in hard goods or has exceptional soft goods.
> 
> Soft goods = best margins and lowest overhead.


^^^^^

As someone that used to own and operate a store, this is the straight up truth!!!!! 

Both Brand and Store Owner never like to see their goods on sale, as the following year they all know that their customers are gonna want it at that price again!!!!!

The very reason why the big chain Internet discounters have impacted the bricks and mortar dealers!!!!!


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## the grouch (Feb 18, 2014)

lab49232 said:


> Yes and no. People don't realize how expensive it is to sell online. Online customer acquisition is terribly expensive as Google and Amazon charge a ton for advertising with them. Then shipping which is ridiculous. They often have the same number or more employees to manage their shipping facilities, unless of course they outsource that which adds an extra expense. The main advantage they do have is warehouse space is cheaper than storefront space. Online margins are usually thinner but they make up for it in bulk.


I never thought about the advertising costs for Google. Thanks for sharing your knowledge. Is nice to get the full picture.


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## ridinbend (Aug 2, 2012)

Banjo said:


> speaking of all this pricing jibbery-joo, here in CAN im always shocked how low they price Rossignol boards at Sportchek it the beginning/middle of the season.
> 
> I consider Rossi boards well made but having this years Krypto and Jibsaw at under $200 is maddness.
> 
> so is a snowboard priced at over $550MSRP...I dont care if it has wings thats too much for something im going to slide over a rock at full speed


Yes, Imo I think it's worth the price for a decent stick. Pricing is just the same in the surf industry for surfboards and they break a lot easier then snowboards. I never bought a surfboard out of a shop because my best friend shaped boards but I still paid $400 for a custom. And that was to my best friend. Lost/Al Merrick etc. surfboards are $6-$700+ and longboards are way more expensive then that. It's just how it goes when you want to surf waves or shred snow. I'm ok with it.


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## Ravaging Rami (Mar 11, 2014)

I try to support local whenever I can, but the owner of my local boardshop understands why I bought my Lib when I did, because I got a significant bundle/discount when I bought my gear. That being said, I'm very glad I bought bindings local because if I ever have questions or issues it is much easier to talk to someone in person then to try and figure it out via the internet. I could sit here and preach about how everyone should buy local at full msrp, but realistically that's not affordable for some people.


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## blunted_nose (Apr 26, 2012)

I always bought snowboards on sale, when they were so damn expensive.. That is until i got a sport check job. Like banjo said, 400$ jibsaw i got for 150$ brand new middle of December(employee discount). The rossi line is solid as well with magne and a pretty durable construction plus they also carry burton incase i want a fancy pow fish or a custom x for the price of a kids lib 





lemme put it this way. I rode my brand new jibsaw and got a core shot first day out. Now the board isnt toast but if it was it was 150 bucks vs 600+ bucks of loss. Buy rossi all day long now 


when they start selling libtech at sportcheck ill consider one


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## d15 (Jan 12, 2012)

the grouch said:


> It is a suggested retail price because they cannot force the retailer to sell for that price. Once the retailer buys it from them, the retailer can sell at whatever price they want. They may not be able to purchase from the manufacturer again, but they can do as they please with the stock in hand.
> 
> As an aside, someone up thread compared snowboard buying to car buying. Yes, you rarely pay full MSRP for cars these days. Unless you want the latest Camaro Zl1, or Nissan GTR, etc... then you pay MSRP PLUS dealer mark up. Snowboards seem similar to me, want the latest and greatest at the start of the season when demand is high? You pay full price. Willing to wait for demand to drop? You can get a deal.


You are officially retarded.


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## jtg (Dec 11, 2012)

That Rossi has a sintered base too, unlike some $600+ libtechs.

Here's what a MAP policy looks like, for those that don't know how retail works.
GoPro Authorized Reseller US Minimum Advertised Price Policy

Rule of thumb on hardgoods, MSRP leaves the shop with about 40%.


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