# board chatter



## xsea (Dec 19, 2012)

I ride a carbon credit.
When I go at high speeds my board chatters a lot and it makes me scared I'm going to catch an edge and wipe out.
Do you think the problem is the board? or just my fear of going fast?


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## Extremo (Nov 6, 2008)

It's a symptom of rocker boards. Without increased dampening tech typically found in higher end boards the tips will chatter like crazy. The carbon credit is your run of the mill basic rocker.


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## xsea (Dec 19, 2012)

Extremo said:


> It's a symptom of rocker boards. Without increased dampening tech typically found in higher end boards the tips will chatter like crazy. The carbon credit is your run of the mill basic rocker.


Well this sucks haha cuz I'll have to deal with it for a few more seasons before I can get a new board


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## Slush Puppie (Aug 15, 2011)

The good news is that the chattering wont make you catch an edge per say (thats down to you ). 

Focusing on where you have the pressure on the board can make a difference - if your weight is back it will help he nose chatter. So focus on seeing if you can quiet the board while you ride - it will make you a better rider. 

But ultimately some boards are just going to do this. You'll get used to it probably.


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## SinkHole (Apr 26, 2012)

I had one when I bought into the rocker craze, and noticed the same thing. Those boards love to carve so just carve the shit out of it and that will eliminate a lot of the chatter. 

Or, buy a used C2 board.


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## paul (Dec 5, 2012)

I have the same board and I just am used to it now. Can't say i've caught edge because of it.


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## TorpedoVegas (Dec 25, 2011)

Put a set of Now IPO bindings on it, makes a huge difference in reducing the chatter feeling. I can't and won't go back to regular bindings now for that very reason.


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## xsea (Dec 19, 2012)

TorpedoVegas said:


> Put a set of Now IPO bindings on it, makes a huge difference in reducing the chatter feeling. I can't and won't go back to regular bindings now for that very reason.


Yeah I have burton cartels


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## ig88 (Jan 3, 2012)

TorpedoVegas said:


> Put a set of Now IPO bindings on it, makes a huge difference in reducing the chatter feeling. I can't and won't go back to regular bindings now for that very reason.


How does Now IPO bindings reduce chatter?


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## xsea (Dec 19, 2012)

So today at stevens, there was some pretty nice pow.

My board kept getting stuck in the snow and chatter was still a huge problem 

So is it my riding that is sucking or the board?


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## wernersl (Dec 28, 2011)

xsea said:


> So today at stevens, there was some pretty nice pow.
> 
> My board kept getting stuck in the snow and chatter was still a huge problem
> 
> So is it my riding that is sucking or the board?


Not saying it's your board but my buddy has a CC and no problems in pow or high speed chatter.


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## xsea (Dec 19, 2012)

wernersl said:


> Not saying it's your board but my buddy has a CC and no problems in pow or high speed chatter.


dang i guess i need to improve my technique then.


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## hktrdr (Apr 3, 2012)

SinkHole said:


> I had one when I bought into the rocker craze, and noticed the same thing. Those boards love to carve so just carve the shit out of it and that will eliminate a lot of the chatter.


Erm, nope.


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## ig88 (Jan 3, 2012)

Extremo said:


> It's a symptom of rocker boards. Without increased dampening tech typically found in higher end boards the tips will chatter like crazy. The carbon credit is your run of the mill basic rocker.


I thought if the boards were made stiffer then chatter would reduce. I did not know rocker boards were more prone to this chatter and anything about the dampening tech. Any links to direct me to read up a little bit more on this dampening tech?

Care to name a few of the higher end rocker boards that have this dampening tech?

Thanks.


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## ig88 (Jan 3, 2012)

Thanks Wolfie for the succinct but detailed elaboration. I see ...... so that's what HD stands for. Now I have a much better understanding about stiffness and dampness. I am very surprised that apparently only Neversummer has a tech that addresses the problem. I will go back and read up more reviews on Neversummer especially those that are HD's.


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## poutanen (Dec 22, 2011)

ig88 said:


> I am very surprised that apparently only Neversummer has a tech that addresses the problem. I will go back and read up more reviews on Neversummer especially those that are HD's.


Snowolf was just mentioning Neversummers particular name for it... Lots of boards have some sort of dampening material added in. Prior uses a "rubber foil" for dampening.


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## stillz (Jan 5, 2010)

Are you balanced and centered over your board? I recently discovered and corrected some chatter during heelside turns while riding switch on steeper terrain. I fixed it by riding with my body a little further downhill than before. I really didn't think I was leaning up the hill. I'm an instructor, I don't lean uphill. Beginners do that. Well, I was doing it too. I also had some icy conditions show me that I lean into my turns more than I thought.


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## Blazin' Raisin (Feb 27, 2013)

stillz said:


> Are you balanced and centered over your board? I recently discovered and corrected some chatter during heelside turns while riding switch on steeper terrain. I fixed it by riding with my body a little further downhill than before. I really didn't think I was leaning up the hill. I'm an instructor, I don't lean uphill. Beginners do that. Well, I was doing it too. I also had some icy conditions show me that I lean into my turns more than I thought.


Two questions -1) what exactly is chatter? I think I know, but haven't actually seen/heard a definition. And 2) isn't it the idea to lean into the turn? I feel like I'm balanced but shift to 60/40 or 70/30 lead foot to make a turn. 

Just also wanted to thank all you teacher here in this forum - you've brought me light years!


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## kaborkian (Feb 1, 2010)

Chatter is the nose and/or tail of a board rhythmically slapping (that's what she said...) the snow as you ride, generally happens at speed while riding flat based.

The phenomenon is usually a resonance in the board due to the combination of stiffness and dampening, mostly a soft board with little or no dampening.

Take a spork, hold the bid end, and flip the small end with your other hand. It will vibrate. Same thing.

Drive a car with worn out shocks and hit a speed bump, same thing.


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## poutanen (Dec 22, 2011)

kaborkian said:


> Chatter is the nose and/or tail of a board rhythmically slapping (that's what she said...) the snow as you ride, generally happens at speed while riding flat based.


Uhhhh what? I don't know if I've ever felt chatter while flatbasing.

It happens to me on my heelside when I'm trying to do a good solid carve on relatively hardpacked groomers. Instead of biting and carving, the board will slightly lose grip and "chatter" sideways over the surface. It's not a smooth skidded turn, it's a failed attempt at a proper carve with no skidding.

For me the fix was to bend my knees more on my heelside. Don't know why it worked, but it did!


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## t21 (Dec 29, 2010)

yup! you can still get chatter as snowolf says due to edge hold issue. my board (Ride Antic) has *slimewalls* on them and it sure lessens the chatter on most terrains when it gets bumpy, but when you start skidding when you loose your edge it bucks you off balance:laugh:


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## poutanen (Dec 22, 2011)

Snowolf said:


> Chatter is a word used to describe several different things. What he described as chatter is correct and accurate. You have not experienced this "flapping" of the noes and tail most likely because I dont think you have ever ridden rocker?


Yeah I should have re-read the OP before posting. I've seen guys riding powder skis with the tip and tail flapping around while they were riding groomers. Sounds like that's what the OP is talking about?

Seemed totally normal although it's one more thing keeping me from riding a rocker board. I did look down a couple times at my "lifted tip" yesterday :laugh: and saw that it flaps around a bit on groomers. Only in cruise mode though, once the edge is raised and carving commences it settles right down.


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## ig88 (Jan 3, 2012)

Snowolf said:


> Chatter is a word used to describe several different things. What he described as chatter is correct and accurate. You have not experienced this *"flapping" of the noes and tail* most likely because I dont think you have ever ridden rocker? Traditional camber is lass prone to this and only the softest (the old Ride Kink was bad about this) ever really got this chatter. A better, more accurate word might be *resonance*.
> 
> To reduce this, the only thing you can do is either slow down or ride at higher edge angles.
> 
> The chatter you are describing and everyone who is an advanced rider carving steep terrain has felt is also chatter. This is obviously the *edge hold giving way* from either exceeding the limits of the board, or lack of perfect technique in a dynamic carve. I responded awhile back to you directly about this question you had but you never responded so I dont know if you read it. ......


I am not an advanced rider but I think I have experienced this second type of chatter where due to my adequate technique in steeps, I slipped out and fell (up the hill) as my heel-side edge hold gave way. But just before I slipped out, the chatters I experienced also seemed to be arising in the nose and tail portions of the board. Are you saying the first type of chatter is in the nose and tail, and the second type is not?


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## OldDog (Oct 7, 2012)

My Raygun (price-point Rocker/Flat/Rocker board) is bad for both types of "chatter". Making sharp turns on tracked out steep blues is murder. My last few times out I've been compensating by bending my knees as low as possible and keeping more weight over my heel edge. Still any little thing can bounce me off my line.

As for that sketchy chatter at speed it is always the worst on the hard pack especially cat tracks (low edge angle or really just edge pressure) where you need to keep speed to make it uphill. I haven't ate it bad yet, but it always feels sketchy as hell.

Can't wait for my new Raptor to get here! Really looking forward to the C/R/C and the damper higher end ride! 

Anybody want to buy a 159 Raygun with about 20 days of n00b hammering on it? :dunno:



poutanen said:


> Uhhhh what? I don't know if I've ever felt chatter while flatbasing.
> 
> It happens to me on my heelside when I'm trying to do a good solid carve on relatively hardpacked groomers. Instead of biting and carving, the board will slightly lose grip and "chatter" sideways over the surface. It's not a smooth skidded turn, it's a failed attempt at a proper carve with no skidding.
> 
> For me the fix was to bend my knees more on my heelside. Don't know why it worked, but it did!


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## stickz (Feb 6, 2013)

poutanen said:


> Yeah I should have re-read the OP before posting. I've seen guys riding powder skis with the tip and tail flapping around while they were riding groomers. Sounds like that's what the OP is talking about?
> 
> Seemed totally normal although it's one more thing keeping me from riding a rocker board. I did look down a couple times at my "lifted tip" yesterday :laugh: and saw that it flaps around a bit on groomers. Only in cruise mode though, once the edge is raised and carving commences it settles right down.


I don't know if it's because I don't go fast enough but my board is a full rocker and it doesn't do that at all, or at leas mot enough for me to notice. I got to a bit over 45mph today. not sure what mph you start feeling this though


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## kaborkian (Feb 1, 2010)

When it happens depends on a lot of factors, including:

How fast your going
How soft/stiff the board is
How much dampening the board has
How long the board is
Rider weight
Camber or rocker profile
Snow conditions
Rider technique

I've never felt anything but the slightest hint of chatter on my NS F1 at any speed or on any terrain. When it did sort of act like it might want to, it was while at high speed hitting some kind of small bump on really hard packed surface and being flat based. Of course, this is a VERY damp, relatively stiff board, and not full rocker, so I wouldn't expect it to chatter. Now thati think about it, the chatter onset thing started happening a couple of days before broke the nose...maybe that wasn't coincidence.

Other boards, don't have much experience with them, but I would expect it to chatter when flat if on a park style soft rocker with no damping and lots of pop. It's really a question of what you want out of a board.


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## ig88 (Jan 3, 2012)

Snowolf said:


> The first type of chatter is generally harmonic resonance in the tip and tail induced by vibration from speed. It is more pronounced on soft boards with rockered tips and especially noticeable with full rocker. This type of chatter is more prevalent at low edge angles but can occurr in a carve as well. If this flutter occurrs during a critical phase of the carve, such as in the bottom of the heelside carve, it can induce an uncontrolled skid and total loss of edge hold.
> 
> The second type of chatter is a result of either imperfect riding technique at a critical phase of a high performance carve under demanding conditions, or simply going beyond the performance capabilities of the equipment in given conditions. In this case, ultimately both tip and tail will chatter as edge hold at the contact points fail but the incipient skid almost always begins at the tail due to the excessive forces generated in the bottom of turn.
> 
> ...


Many thanks for the detailed explanation. I have ridden a soft rockered board but have not experienced the first type of chatter you mentioned. Maybe I did not get it up to the critical speed for the resonance to play up.

For the second type of chatter, I used to get it more than currently with the exact same set of equipment. Maybe I am getting better in bending my knees more. Next time I will see if the aft shift will further eliminate this chatter for me. Thanks again.

But after reading your explanation, I begin to think the second type of chatter may have an element of the first type of chatter (resonance) in it. Does it not?


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## ig88 (Jan 3, 2012)

Thanks Wolfie again for the detailed explanation and further insight into the science or resonance and harmonic dampening. 

Actually I have routinely bent my ankles as well lately but I omitted mentioning it for simplicity above. This could explain why I am not not getting the amount of chatter I used to be getting. But the aft shift thing is something I have never incorporated into my turns ..... not saying I am able to do it just because I want to. Anyway I should seriously look into this. 

Thanks again. Your explanation has been useful.


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