# Lib tech darker series c3



## ek9max (Apr 8, 2013)

Haven't demod it this year yet. 

But if I had a buddy that was coming from a custom x I would tell them to get a darker series now that it is a camber dominant board this year 

Camber. Stiff. Set back directional twin. Sounds like a perfect match for a custom x rider.


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## shredjesse (Jan 29, 2014)

Just picked mine up last weekend after doing tons of reserach and looking for the board. I picked mine up in the 158wide, went out and won a local Mountain Dew Vertical Challenge event in 26-35 year old mens category and qualified myself for finals that way. I've ridden a wide variety of boards over many years, competed in USASA, been to USASA Nationals, and done a bunch of other events along with coached an OISA team for a while

First off, this board is far meaner than the CustomX. It compares more to the Burton T7 if anything, a board I've competed in boardercross on. It has an ultra fast base, very stiff ride, aggressive camber and sidecut with full magnetraction. CustomX is in the same vicinity as this board, sure... but still a tame board compared to this.



This board is a hard pack killer. It's camber dominant, but has the dual camber profile to it which I really enjoy and I feel provides the best edge pressure distribution of any board I've ridden. *It is FAST*. I picked the board up, did multiple deep soaks with graphite wax, and hauled serious ass all day. Excellent quality! *The board is stiff*. For anyone coming off of a freestyle oriented board, this board will feel vague and grabby. It powers through everything though and doesn't have much torsional flex, which comes across as feedback. *This board is stable at high speeds*. A lot of the other Libtech profiles go a bit too strong on the reverse camber portion in he middle, and this results in less pressure on the full edge length. Not the case with this board. Your pressure is very evenly distributed across the entire edge length. *The boards edge hold is unparalleled* by any board I've ridden in the lib line or any other brand. This however is a mixed blessing. It will stick wherever you put it, including stick you your face if you aren't completely on your game. Combine that with how fast it is, and you can see how this board is quick to bite newer riders.


For freestyle I wouldn't bother with it on rails or boxes or the like. Not enough flex to press much. Excellent for big jumps. Carry in huge speed with strong pop and send it for days. Load the camber up spinning backside and reap the rewards. Land and bite down with your edge and ride away fast and smooth. I haven't taken this in the pipe but I'd bet dollars to donuts it slays pipe. It won't noodle out when you come off the wall hauling balls, it will hold more than you can probably put into it.

Overall, glad I purchased it for my one season on the iceacoast and the occasional speed oriented event (boarderX, banked slalom, slalom). Definitely a board that is part of a quiver though.



If I needed one do it all board from the libtech line, I'd look more at the Libtech Hotknife or TRS. Hotknife for east coast or jump and pipe riders, TRS for places likely to get pow dumps or kids looking to rock rails.


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## SnowDragon (Apr 23, 2012)

Shredjesse, terrific review. Much appreciated.
I've been looking at this board since they changed it to C3 this year, and it sounds exactly as I expected, if not even more aggressive, which sounds great.

One question: did you try riding it switch at all? If yes, a noticeable difference from one side to the other or easy to ride switch?
It's hard to tell with directional twins how they will ride switch I find.

Thanks.


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## shredjesse (Jan 29, 2014)

Yes I've ridden it switch. I'm at almost pegged out on stance width, and also .5" back per the factory setback, not my own settings. I had no issues with switch.

*Be warned though:* I actually find directional twins BETTER when ridden switch because you're a bit forward of center, and you'll get an early bite into the sidecut which makes it turn quicker. Until you're able to haul into 40'+ tables switch, you'll appreciate that quick turning as it's more responsive at lower speeds. If you're carrying large amounts of speed switch this board will be a bit more chattery and tend to push (due to being forward of center)... but honestly if a rider is even asking that question they probably aren't that kind of rider.

I wouldn't recommend riding this board switch to a newer or even intermediate to riding switch rider though mainly due to the stiff board delivering a somewhat vague feeling. You really don't get tons of feel for what's beneath your feet at lower speeds. It doesn't provide much feel at all until your devouring whatever terrain you're approaching.


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## SnowDragon (Apr 23, 2012)

Sweet.
Gotta see about demoing this board - or getting it on a year end clearance sale.

Thanks again.


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## shredjesse (Jan 29, 2014)

Yeah... it's definitely not the cheapest board. Still, when compared to the Custom X, it's MSRP is $30 more and it's a vastly superior snowboard.

I wish they posted the Molecular weight of the base material of this board, or anyboard anymore for that matter. I'd bet dollars to donuts it's a Sintered 9600 series base while the custom X is a 7600 series.

I hate how companies are hiding behind marketing Jargon these days :/


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## tonicusa (Feb 27, 2008)

So.... how would you say this compares to a Rome Artifact?


:yahoo:


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## shredjesse (Jan 29, 2014)

:eusa_clap:


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## BFBF (Jan 15, 2012)

shredjesse said:


> Yeah... it's definitely not the cheapest board. Still, when compared to the Custom X, it's MSRP is $30 more and it's a vastly superior snowboard.
> 
> I wish they posted the Molecular weight of the base material of this board, or anyboard anymore for that matter. I'd bet dollars to donuts it's a Sintered 9600 series base while the custom X is a 7600 series.
> 
> I hate how companies are hiding behind marketing Jargon these days :/


nice review..Sounds like exactly what I want.


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## dk01 (Jan 30, 2014)

damn you shredjesse!!!!! i was all set on getting the Rossi One Magtek but now you've gone and screwed things up for me. you recommend the Hotknife (i'm on the east coast) and i know a couple of other people had some good things to say about the Hotknife as well. just wondering if you looked at the Rossi One before you got the Dark Series? it's gotten some good reviews too. thanks.

by the way, excellent write up and review as well.


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## shredjesse (Jan 29, 2014)

Glad you liked the review.

I've not personally ridden a Rossignol since 2006, and before that 2002, but I checked them out at the latest expo here in Boston. They aren't owned by Quicksilver anymore, who is the parent company of Mervin these days, and that's how Rossi boards came to feature Magne Traction.

Now that Rossi has been sold off from Quicksilver, they still have the rights to use shapes they've used in the past with the product line, but they're not made in the Mervin Factory (as far as I'm aware) and don't have access to anything new coming out of Mervin for technology (again: as far as I am aware). The build quality coming out of Mervin is vastly superior to most companies I've ridden, and a lot more innovative as they have so much machinery in their own shop. I've been to Sequim WA to see it, they aren't screwing around. They really can handle just about every aspect of the board construction entirely there in the shop with some very good machines, some of which are custom built and no one else in the industry has.

The co-head coach for my team in the OISA League rode a lot of Rossignol boards. He was pretty happy with the One Magnetraction, but eventually moved on to Bateleon.


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## bseracka (Nov 14, 2011)

shredjesse said:


> Glad you liked the review.
> 
> I've not personally ridden a Rossignol since 2006, and before that 2002, but I checked them out at the latest expo here in Boston. They aren't owned by Quicksilver anymore, who is the parent company of Mervin these days, and that's how Rossi boards came to feature Magne Traction.
> 
> ...


Mervin has also been sold off and was picked up by the parent company for dakine and sims. QS only has Roxy now.


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## shredjesse (Jan 29, 2014)

bseracka said:


> Mervin has also been sold off and was picked up by the parent company for dakine and sims. QS only has Roxy now.


This I did not know!

That's kind of a shame for Roxy. Roxy and GNU were about the only companies making legitimate womens boards with quality materials. Most womens stuff I've seen says even less about product quality than mens, and frequently hides base material quality with bullshit statements like "Low Maintenance!" which is ALWAYS code word for "Extruded bullshit base".

EDIT: Nevermind, just read up on this. Just happened this past October. Everything we're looking at for boards is from the Quicksilver ownership. It'll be two seasons until we see product built under the new ownership. Also, in the deal Mervin still will manufacture Roxy snowboards.

http://business.transworld.net/1427...-reaches-agreement-sell-mervin-manufacturing/


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## jdang307 (Feb 6, 2011)

shredjesse, you've ridden the Hot Knife? How is the pop on it? I want to boost off anything I can find, and also blast down the mountain along the fall line.


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## freshy (Nov 18, 2009)

I also own this board in a 61 and concur with everything shredjesse said. This thing loves the speed, probably more than you do. My last day out it hadent snowed in 2 weeks so I was just hitting groomers and wow can it ever hold an edge. The pop is awesome as you would expect. It is also Horse Power construction which I don't believe it says on the website, but you can clearly see the HP arm logo in the little banana by the boards description. Edge to edge is lightening fast as well.
I would say this can be a quiver killer if you don't care about butters and rails. Perfect for the hard charging ripper who wants to do all mountain freestyle, charge a tree run, and burn a perfect bowl then rip some pow. 

I can't compare it to anything tho because my last board was also a dark series, and before that another Lib...


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## shredjesse (Jan 29, 2014)

Eh... I've yet to take it out in pow but I'd be surprised if it did particularly well in the pow. I'm sure it doesn't suck, but there's better pow sticks out there. I've ridden boards this aggresive, and they're just not as fun in pow. Also if you have a few slow friends you want to hang out with, this board will be tiring. At low speeds it's just too vague.

I've not been on the hot knife. A kid I coached a few years back is on it and his reports on it are exactly as I expected. It's this board with the ridiculous aggression taken out. Still an all around park and big jump killer, but toned down a bit so it's not full tilt angry all the time.


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## freshy (Nov 18, 2009)

shredjesse said:


> Eh... I've yet to take it out in pow but I'd be surprised if it did particularly well in the pow. I'm sure it doesn't suck, but there's better pow sticks out there. I've ridden boards this aggresive, and they're just not as fun in pow. Also if you have a few slow friends you want to hang out with, this board will be tiring. At low speeds it's just too vague.
> 
> I've not been on the hot knife. A kid I coached a few years back is on it and his reports on it are exactly as I expected. It's this board with the ridiculous aggression taken out. Still an all around park and big jump killer, but toned down a bit so it's not full tilt angry all the time.


I'm wondering why you think an aggressive board would not be fun in the pow? This does awesome in the pow. I set it back 1/2" (well 1" counting the factory set back) one insert back from center, and it had no problems staying afloat. The little amount of rocker makes a huge difference compared to regular camber (I'm coming off an old cambered dark series) It's obviously no Birdman but I found my self not leaning back as hard as I thought I should, and way less than camber. I've had at least 4 great pow days and a couple days hiking for it.


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## shredjesse (Jan 29, 2014)

Of the boards Ive had and enjoyed the most in pow, a bit loose and more playful board tended to provide better feedback. Also the more reverse camber style of the C2 shapes provides exceptionally easy float.

Like I said, far from miserable, but there are better boards in powder.


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## shredjesse (Jan 29, 2014)

Had the board for a bit now, put a bunch of days in with it. A bit more to report:


*It breaks in nice*. Loses a bit of the vague feeling at low speeds, but still a high speed monster.

*This is by far and away the best base I've experienced on any high end board ever*, over the best of the T series an Vapen boards I've taken out from Burton. It's fast, it holds a metric crap ton of wax and it doesn't take any damage. I was out in the glades a bunch today and I kept spotting rocks that were dug up between moguls and trees and what not. I thought for sure I was doing some damage to the board, but was at peace with it since if you baby a board you won't ever fully enjoy it. Still though, at the end of the day it almost looks brand new still VERY impressive, especially since half of the rocks are friggen Granite out here!

*A few minor downsides...*

I'd like the overall position of the risers and inserts to be wider. I'm a bit shy of all the way pegged out, and I may go almost all the way wide for lots of stability at really high speeds. At that width in the risers I'd envision it would make the flex a bit funky.

I had some Capita boards and a few other boards available to me for the season, rode a few of them. All sintered bases. After experiencing how good this board is it has made me jaded towards other brands forever. They're maybe using 4500 or 5600 mollecular mass sintered bases at best... a select few I can tell are 7200. I'd read years ago about the GNU Riders Choice using a sintered 9000 base... and now I know Libtech wasn't just throwing out ridiculous numbers. Their UHMW bases are truly Ultra High Mollecular Weight, unlike the competition who are just selling marketing fluff.


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## eli783 (Oct 24, 2012)

cant wait to pick up one end of season. Awesome review shredjeese


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## Bertieman (Jan 19, 2014)

Nice review. If you don't mind me asking, what is your height and weight? You say you have a 158, which I'm looking at the 158 wide. 5"9 165 here. Thanks!


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## tonicusa (Feb 27, 2008)

You could easily ride the 155. Im 6' 180lbs and the 158 is way more than enough board for me. Do you have giant feet?


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## Bertieman (Jan 19, 2014)

tonicusa said:


> You could easily ride the 155. Im 6' 180lbs and the 158 is way more than enough board for me. Do you have giant feet?


Size 12 board boot..

249 mm waist width on the 155cm. I had a clash 151 with 247 mm waist and had foot drag on greens


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## tonicusa (Feb 27, 2008)

You might be able to pull it off though with the regular 158 at 25.1 waist width. You will know best from personal experience. I would think the 158 wide might be a little stiff for your height and weight, but in reality you might be fine there too because its such a great flex on this board.


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## Bertieman (Jan 19, 2014)

tonicusa said:


> You might be able to pull it off though with the regular 158 at 25.1 waist width. You will know best from personal experience. I would think the 158 wide might be a little stiff for your height and weight, but in reality you might be fine there too because its such a great flex on this board.


The only thing is no shops around here offer rentals and such so I cant try them out. I have a burton flying v 155wide 256mm waist and I get close to 3/4 and inch off my heel and toe sides., so I dont think anything under 255-256 would be ideal cause i want a pure groomer carving board. The capita nas is one of the only others I've found under 158cm wide


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## tonicusa (Feb 27, 2008)

I own the Capita NAS too. That's a great board for carving, and loading up traditional camber. It's really playful for a cambered medium flex board. 

One thing I will say is that you could get away with riding the Darker a little wider than normal, it really feels nimble edge to edge, something about the design. But 26.3 is quite wide. The Capita 157W at 25.8 would be perfect. You'd be in heaven ripping with that and its perfect for your height and weight. 

I could ride either of those two boards interchangeably. For a dedicated "groomer board" (actual groomers) the Capita would be my choice mainly because of the way it pops with traditional camber. It pops out of a carve more than the Darker. But the Darker still has a shit ton of pop that just has to be accessed slightly differently than traditional camber. I love the Darker on jumps.


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## shredjesse (Jan 29, 2014)

I'm 5'11" and 220 on the 158w. I have a size 10.5 boot. I won't ride anything below 25.5 for a waist width with my size feet, so getting on a standard width board with a size 12 boot sounds a bit silly to me.

I've been a big fan of wider boards for a long time now. I had the TRS which only comes in a relatively normal width, and that board was stupid fun but when I really got into it, I'd be able to induce drag from my boots. I also dig the extra float in pow, although i think the board camber profile makes a bigger difference.


I would disagree on the pop with the darker, specifically in out and out of edging (carving). It loads like traditional camber due to it's camber dominance, you just have to distribute your weight properly to make sure both camber profiles flex. A traditional camber board won't care if your weight is in the camber right.


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## Bertieman (Jan 19, 2014)

shredjesse said:


> I'm 5'11" and 220 on the 158w. I have a size 10.5 boot. I won't ride anything below 25.5 for a waist width with my size feet, so getting on a standard width board with a size 12 boot sounds a bit silly to me.
> 
> I've been a big fan of wider boards for a long time now. I had the TRS which only comes in a relatively normal width, and that board was stupid fun but when I really got into it, I'd be able to induce drag from my boots. I also dig the extra float in pow, although i think the board camber profile makes a bigger difference.
> 
> ...


Dang. So maybe a 158w is a bit too large being 5"9 165 boot 12? Cause my 155w seems to do pretty good...but yet again there aren't too many camber choices that I've come across for a set groomer board that are under 158. The nas..but thats 157 so mind as well get the better darker series board


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## Mr.KnowItAll (Feb 18, 2014)

By far, the Smokin KT-22 is faster. The Rocker is too much on the dark series, great for pow, but in mixed conditions, a bit insecure.


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## shredjesse (Jan 29, 2014)

I honestly don't believe in a weight to board size relationship. Height and inseam (in turn, stance) will determine basic board length, along with desired spin weight. Weight multiplied by skill will determine the flex of the board you look for in that particular weight.

I'm guessing despite being a smidge shorter our inseams probably aren't far off (I'm a 30 length pant) and you have size 12 feet, a 156-158 and wide board is about right for you. I typically ride a 157 as I like to ride smaller boards, and I'm a 157-160.

From there, you need a good board with a flex you can actually use at the paces you like to ride to get the most rewarding ride for your skill.

Be forewarned, shorter does not always = better flex. Your stance width won't change, but the amount of tip and tail you have will decrease, and in turn you'll have less effect over the flex of the board. Imagine it like putting a board between two chairs. if you stand in the middle of it and bounce up and down it's going to flex a lot. The wider you go, the less flex. Reducing the boards length is about the same as bringing the chairs in closer.


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## shredjesse (Jan 29, 2014)

Mr.KnowItAll said:


> By far, the Smokin KT-22 is faster. The Rocker is too much on the dark series, great for pow, but in mixed conditions, a bit insecure.


You're right... but: Dark series IS NOT Darker series so you're talking about a different board.


Dark had rocker, darker got rid of the rocker in the middle pretty much entirely. I agree that the old profile was more of a powder profile. I have it on my Phoenix Lando out west, and I admit that board is downright funky hauling balls. This board, is not the same.


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## SnowDogWax (Nov 8, 2013)

Shredjesse 

Looking to buy Darker series board I'm 6'3" my weight is 220lbs and dropping hope to ride all by the end of season at 200Lbs. My inseam is 31" 11.5 boot. Should I get 158W or 161W


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## Bertieman (Jan 19, 2014)

SnowDogWax said:


> Shredjesse
> 
> Looking to buy Darker series board I'm 6'3" my weight is 220lbs and dropping hope to ride all by the end of season at 200Lbs. My inseam is 31" 11.5 boot. Should I get 158W or 161W


Shot in the dark here...im going to guess the 161. If the official board testees say 158, ill lose all hope for getting this board haha.


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## shredjesse (Jan 29, 2014)

I would probably go with the 161w. Only exception is if you're in the park a lot... but even then you could probably make a 161w work for you plenty fine.


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## SnowDogWax (Nov 8, 2013)

Plan on competing in some races, they have NASTAR at my resort 3 days a week. Was ready to get SkunkApe HP but after reading this thread you've sold me on Darker board.


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## shredjesse (Jan 29, 2014)

For any sort of non-powder high speed riding I would not be on the skunk ape. It's a TNT base, aka extruded. They're just not as fast, they don't hold wax as good, etc etc.


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## SnowDogWax (Nov 8, 2013)

Thanks! did not know SkunkApe HP was extruded base,


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## eli783 (Oct 24, 2012)

shredjesse said:


> For any sort of non-powder high speed riding I would not be on the skunk ape. It's a TNT base, aka extruded. They're just not as fast, they don't hold wax as good, etc etc.


I knew there had to be something to my buddy on a trice hp just booking on me while riding the trs. Sintered bases are noticeably faster than libs tnt. After reading the review and everyone's input, I think I'm picking one end of season sale.


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## shredjesse (Jan 29, 2014)

Honestly, I don't think extruded bases really make sense at all for all but the most inept and lazy of persons. They're more prone to damage, hold way less wax, and when they are waxed up they just aren't as fast.

They're supposedly "lower maintenance" but I find that far from the truth. The only thing I know about extruded is that the consequences of poor maintenance are less. You will damage a sintered base running it dry... but it will stay waxed for literally 3-4 times as many days of riding as the extruded base.

"Low maintenance" should be code word for "not worth maintaining" in my opinion.

Libtechs UHMW bases specifically are amazing, and I believe the (EDIT) Travis Rice (EDIT) has that base on it. I've had very few other boards with a comporable base to this base.


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## tonicusa (Feb 27, 2008)

This Darker is a noticeably fast base which is so nice on the jump line. I have ridden/owned a faster base, it was on the Amplid HiDef. The base on that thing is ridiculously fast, almost annoying!


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## shredjesse (Jan 29, 2014)

Closest I've come was years ago on an older forum with a Sintered 7200 series base with the waffle pattern cut into the base. That was a really fast base! I had a Burton T7 for a while and while supposedly the best of the Burton line, I was underwhelmed.


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## Wibby (May 14, 2013)

SnowDogWax said:


> Shredjesse
> 
> Looking to buy Darker series board I'm 6'3" my weight is 220lbs and dropping hope to ride all by the end of season at 200Lbs. My inseam is 31" 11.5 boot. Should I get 158W or 161W


Depending on where you live and if you ride many powder days. The 164 could work as well.


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## SnowDogWax (Nov 8, 2013)

Most are on Ice Coast… So going with the 161W for powder if ever I have a Rossi 164W Krypto.


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## shredjesse (Jan 29, 2014)

161w for days.

164's waist width may not be ideal for you... but with a wide enough stance would be fine.


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## SnowDogWax (Nov 8, 2013)

shredjesse said:


> For any sort of non-powder high speed riding I would not be on the skunk ape. It's a TNT base, aka extruded. They're just not as fast, they don't hold wax as good, etc etc.


Was just looking at year end deals for Darker Series and other LbTech boards.
Seems the SkunkApe HP is sintered base & SkunkApe is extruded base.

Never herd that mentioned in any online reviews:dizzy:


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## shredjesse (Jan 29, 2014)

SnowDogWax said:


> Was just looking at year end deals for Darker Series and other LbTech boards.
> Seems the SkunkApe HP is sintered base & SkunkApe is extruded base.
> 
> Never herd that mentioned in any online reviews:dizzy:


Huh, who knew. The TRS and TRS HP use the same crappy TNT base so I just presumed the skunk ape would be one and the same. Turns out I was wrong!


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## SnowDogWax (Nov 8, 2013)

shredjesse said:


> Huh, who knew. The TRS and TRS HP use the same crappy TNT base so I just presumed the skunk ape would be one and the same. Turns out I was wrong!


Darker Series & Banana Magic are the only two boards with both these in its base material.

1. Super tough sintered base material that holds wax well due to its compression formed amorphous polymer structure. 
2. CO-SINTERED BASE MATERIAL Eco Sublimation compatible, fast, rugged, maximum wax retention.

SkunkApe HP or any others that are sintered have only the first listed.:dizzy:


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## shredjesse (Jan 29, 2014)

Ultimately that's all garbage marketing blah blah anyways. Process and molecular weight are king of telling quality. A few tricks can be done with extruded, but when it comes to quality you can't fake the funk.

I ran USASA boardercross this past weekend on this board. Really enjoyable, but I wish I had sharpened the edges. I was definitely yarded by the fancy BX specific boards though.


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## SnowDogWax (Nov 8, 2013)

Would sharper edges would make any difference against the BX specific boards.


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## tonicusa (Feb 27, 2008)

I need to sharpen my Darker too. I'm not sure how to do it though with the magnetraction. I know the edges are 0/0 no bevels at all. There's a little tool for magnetraction someone sells but it's -1 bevel and I like the Darker the way it is. I could try getting on it with some diamond stones but all my gear is full sized files and stones.


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## SnowDogWax (Nov 8, 2013)

DogFunk, Evo has them $12 just google magnetraction edge sharpen….


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## shredjesse (Jan 29, 2014)

SnowDogWax said:


> Would sharper edges would make any difference against the BX specific boards.


My edges were dull from riding a lot of glades and what not with various exposed roots and rocks. I had difficulty holding a good edge through some of the more worn sections of the track, I am sure having tuned my edges would have helped.

The BX specific boards (Donek & Kessler for example) have more effective edge resulting from a very specific BX shape and have a different sidecut approach, along with top quality base materials. The darker series can hang with them pretty good, but given it's meant to do a lot that you don't ever do in BX (go switch, ride pow, etc) it gave up a few things in exchange for those.

No point going down that road though. If all you cared about was carving and going fast on hardpack you'd be asking about alpine boards and hardboots anyways... and I couldn't really help you there


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## SnowDogWax (Nov 8, 2013)

tonicusa said:


> I need to sharpen my Darker too. I'm not sure how to do it though with the magnetraction. I know the edges are 0/0 no bevels at all. There's a little tool for magnetraction someone sells but it's -1 bevel and I like the Darker the way it is. I could try getting on it with some diamond stones but all my gear is full sized files and stones.


The tool at DogFunk is a -1 when flipped it's 0/0


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## tonicusa (Feb 27, 2008)

Sweet. Thanks SnowDog.


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## SnowDragon (Apr 23, 2012)

So, with the year end sales going now, I 'm considering getting the Darker Series or Never Summer Ripsaw.

I'm fairly sure I want the very aggressive nature of the Darker Series. My only concern remains how it rides switch. I currently only ride true twins as I ride switch a fair bit. It's only a 1/2 inch setback on the Darker versus the Ripsaw which is a true twin. Am I overly concerned about the switch riding aspect of the Darker?

I figure the Darker Series is the complete opposite of my Banana Magic and would be a great offset in my quiver.

Thanks for any input.


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## tonicusa (Feb 27, 2008)

Piece of cake riding switch, great actually. Whatever is going on with the C3 etc this board is enjoyable to ride switch. Don't notice the setback at all. In fact I add more setback to my stance than the default (lot of people do obviously). I rode the NAS switch but that was ridiculous, long nose, traditional camber. Come to the Darkside Dragon.


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## SnowDogWax (Nov 8, 2013)

tonicusa said:


> Piece of cake riding switch, great actually. Whatever is going on with the C3 etc this board is enjoyable to ride switch. Don't notice the setback at all. In fact I add more setback to my stance than the default (lot of people do obviously). I rode the NAS switch but that was ridiculous, long nose, traditional camber. Come to the Darkside Dragon.


tonicusa
Ordered the Darker Series board myself, it's sitting at home because it's a 164W which might be the wrong size, might reorder and get 161W. 
I'm 6'3" 220lbs want to ride next season at 205 lbs should I return 164W and get 161W.


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## SnowDogWax (Nov 8, 2013)

Also my foot size is 11.5 US


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## tonicusa (Feb 27, 2008)

You definitely don't need the wide. I have a size 10 Nike boot and ride the 158/25.1 and it feels wide and stable on jumps and never boots out, and it is fun to get up on edge in a carve. The regular 164/25.7 would probably be perfect for you.

The board handles so well and is quite frankly an "easy ride" for what's considered an aggressive board that you don't need to or want to size down. It will also be more fun in fresh at 164. My recommendation would be the regular 164. I'm 6' and 180lbs.


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## SnowDogWax (Nov 8, 2013)

Was my thoughts. But chasing a deal $$$ and all they had was 161W 164W. Think I will spend the extra $50 and get 164. Thanks Tonicusa


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## tonicusa (Feb 27, 2008)

LOL! Yup totally worth the extra bucks.


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## Bertieman (Jan 19, 2014)

GreyDragon said:


> My only concern remains how it rides switch. I currently only ride true twins as I ride switch a fair bit. It's only a 1/2 inch setback on the Darker versus the Ripsaw which is a true twin. Am I overly concerned about the switch riding aspect of the Darker?
> Thanks for any input.


The only thing the setback will effect is your limitations with stance width. I centered my twin which has a setback. It allows me to have a stance width no less than 21.5" when centered. 

I can definitely say never summers are made with quality.


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## SnowDragon (Apr 23, 2012)

Okay, I think I'm going to the Darker side!

Size recommendation?
5'11", 180 lbs., size 9 reduced footprint boot.
158 or 161?


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## tonicusa (Feb 27, 2008)

158 will be perfect.


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## SnowDragon (Apr 23, 2012)

tonicusa said:


> 158 will be perfect.


That's what I thought.

Thanks for the help!:bowdown:


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## SnowDogWax (Nov 8, 2013)

tonicusa said:


> LOL! Yup totally worth the extra bucks.


Small snowboard shop at Killington had a 164 Darker Series, drove down from Jay Peak & snatched it up. Next 8 days at Jay Peak will just be a little sweeter. Hope I'm up for the challenge. :yahoo::yahoo:


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## tonicusa (Feb 27, 2008)

Nice! Rip it.


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## SnowDogWax (Nov 8, 2013)

Confession of a long time snowboard bachelor who after dating many snowboards, has found a perfect match….. The Darker Series has hit that sweet spot. Conditions at Jay Peak where choppy, soft, crud, very few hard packed groomers. The 164 has made me a believer. Edge to edge transition was very good. Board was so stable it made the speed you're going very deceptive. Point this board down the mountain, it just takes off like a rocket. Switch felt like it was a true twin. Couple of times being lazy the board reminded me it likes to be aggressive, if not ride another board.


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## tonicusa (Feb 27, 2008)

Just wait until next year when the snow is a couple inches fresh and the groomers packed deep and firm.


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## SnowDogWax (Nov 8, 2013)

Bought season passes to Copper and EPIC local season pass for 2014/2015…… November it will be waxed and ready.


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## SnowDragon (Apr 23, 2012)

SnowDogWax said:


> Confession of a long time snowboard bachelor who after dating many snowboards, has found a perfect match….. The Darker Series has hit that sweet spot. Conditions at Jay Peak where choppy, soft, crud, very few hard packed groomers. The 164 has made me a believer. Edge to edge transition was very good. Board was so stable it made the speed you're going very deceptive. Point this board down the mountain, it just takes off like a rocket. Switch felt like it was a true twin. Couple of times being lazy the board reminded me it likes to be aggressive, if not ride another board.


Damn!
Now that you've found that "special someone" (board), I won't be able to ask you about the latest board you've bought.:laugh:

Wishing you much happiness in your new relationship!

(I hope my relationship with the 158 I ordered yesterday is as successful.)


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## SnowDogWax (Nov 8, 2013)

Darker Series board has been known as a Dragon slayer…


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## gordon (Mar 16, 2014)

shredjesse said:


> Just picked mine up last weekend after doing tons of reserach and looking for the board. I picked mine up in the 158wide, went out and won a local Mountain Dew Vertical Challenge event in 26-35 year old mens category and qualified myself for finals that way. I've ridden a wide variety of boards over many years, competed in USASA, been to USASA Nationals, and done a bunch of other events along with coached an OISA team for a while
> 
> First off, this board is far meaner than the CustomX. It compares more to the Burton T7 if anything, a board I've competed in boardercross on. It has an ultra fast base, very stiff ride, aggressive camber and sidecut with full magnetraction. CustomX is in the same vicinity as this board, sure... but still a tame board compared to this.
> 
> ...


After reading this, it seems I need to take a look at this board. I'm coming off riding a NS Legacy 166 which is great but feels too flexible for me. Riding hard into turns, especially if I hit an icy section, it definitely would skip a little or wash out and not give me a ton of confidence.

shredjesse would you recommend this Darker series as nice step up from something like the Legacy?


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## Bertieman (Jan 19, 2014)

gordon said:


> After reading this, it seems I need to take a look at this board. I'm coming off riding a NS Legacy 166 which is great but feels too flexible for me. Riding hard into turns, especially if I hit an icy section, it definitely would skip a little or wash out and not give me a ton of confidence.
> 
> shredjesse would you recommend this Darker series as nice step up from something like the Legacy?


The legacy and darker series are both c/r/c, so why don't you try r/c/r if you find it too washy? I just got a 156 legacy and it's effortless to turn. Coming from a burton flying V, the legacy is significantly better in every aspect. I can only imagine boards are only better in increments after already having these boards, because never summer and lib techs are both up there in quality.


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## gordon (Mar 16, 2014)

Good point on the incremental changes. I was just a little surprised the Legacy got loose in those turns. The Darker sounds like it will hold a rail if it needs to. Hard to say without A/B'ing them. The Legacy is a great board don't get me wrong, I just feel myself wanting something that is even faster and tighter on edge.


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## SnowDogWax (Nov 8, 2013)

gordon said:


> Good point on the incremental changes. I was just a little surprised the Legacy got loose in those turns. The Darker sounds like it will hold a rail if it needs to. Hard to say without A/B'ing them. The Legacy is a great board don't get me wrong, I just feel myself wanting something that is even faster and tighter on edge.


Gordon everything Shredjesse said is spot on.:thumbsup: The Darker Series board holds an edge better than camber IMO because it is so ultra responsive. Darker Series is faster than most riders can handle. Ultra aggressive + fun to hit switch not on powder yet but expect it will do well :yahoo:


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## gordon (Mar 16, 2014)

Nice. So were you able to compare the Darker to something like a Skunk Ape or NS SL?Legacy? Is the board a major step up from something else you rode that was All Mountain?
How is the edge hold any better than another Magne Traction board?


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## SnowDogWax (Nov 8, 2013)

gordon said:


> Nice. So were you able to compare the Darker to something like a Skunk Ape or NS SL?Legacy? Is the board a major step up from something else you rode that was All Mountain?
> How is the edge hold any better than another Magne Traction board?


Gordon been on the slopes 183 days last year and this, boards that I owned and ridden for many of those days.. 
Rossi 167 Xv, 164W Krypto, 161W OneMagTech,
N.S. 159 RipSaw, 163 HeritageX, 
Lib Tech 157 Skunk Ape, 165 SkunkApe HP, 159 Hot Knife, 158W Riders Choice, 159W Skate Banana, 
Ride 159W High Life. 

These are the all mountain boards I rode on the Ice coast as all mountain freestyle/freeride boards. More on the aggressive freeride side.

Darker Series board IMO is the best board for my riding style, 2nd would be between the RipSaw/HotKnife. Problem with the Darker Series board for me is I'll be selling most all my boards.:dizzy::dunno::yahoo:


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## SnowDragon (Apr 23, 2012)

SnowDog, you weren't impressed with the Rossis??
I've been curious about them, and would have liked to try the XV, but tapered directional wouldn't work for me for the amount of switch riding I do.

I found the Hot Knife a terrific board, but too soft for what I wanted it for.

I had it down to the Ripsaw and the Darker Series.
This thread sold me on the Darker.


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## SnowDogWax (Nov 8, 2013)

GreyDragon said:


> SnowDog, you weren't impressed with the Rossis??
> I've been curious about them, and would have liked to try the XV, but tapered directional wouldn't work for me for the amount of switch riding I do.
> 
> I found the Hot Knife a terrific board, but too soft for what I wanted it for.
> ...


Hot Knife is a great board, if I had bought the 162, might still have the Hot Knife. Sold Hot Knife to a friend who just bought a TRS. After 2 runs he had to have the Hot Knife… C3. I own the 159 RipSaw great board but will soon depart from my quiver.

Rossi XV tapered directional was bought for a specific purpose of developing my stance for riding GS racing. Donek boards which run $1200.Donek builds your board based on boot size, and stance. At Jay Peak with the 167 Krypto 25.5 I'm trying to determine race stance. Will be at Copper this November & plan to have a Donek board built & ready. XV was a demo that IMO was new. 
I'm with you need to ride switch, and the Darker Series is the NUTS….


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## gordon (Mar 16, 2014)

SnowDogWax said:


> Gordon been on the slopes 183 days last year and this, boards that I owned and ridden for many of those days..
> Rossi 167 Xv, 164W Krypto, 161W OneMagTech,
> N.S. 159 RipSaw, 163 HeritageX,
> Lib Tech 157 Skunk Ape, 165 SkunkApe HP, 159 Hot Knife, 158W Riders Choice, 159W Skate Banana,
> ...


SnowDogWax I am jealous of your incredible time on the mountain. I have to ask, how do you manage that? 

Sounds like your board choices are in line with mine. What was the defining feature that hooked you on the Darker vs all the others?

Thanks


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## timmytard (Mar 19, 2009)

SnowDogWax said:


> Gordon been on the slopes 183 days last year and this, boards that I owned and ridden for many of those days..
> Rossi 167 Xv, 164W Krypto, 161W OneMagTech,
> N.S. 159 RipSaw, 163 HeritageX,
> Lib Tech 157 Skunk Ape, 165 SkunkApe HP, 159 Hot Knife, 158W Riders Choice, 159W Skate Banana,
> ...


I haven't ridden as many of the boards on your big list, ya bastard:bowdown:

But I've ridden a handful. Too me, it sounds like it would ride most similar to the Heritage? 
I haven't ridden the Dark One, but the Heritage is really aggressive & stiff. Nothing like the Legacy, not even close.

I'm also on a Heritage X though & I'm a lightweight
@ about 165lbs rockin' size 9 & a 1/2's.

Do you think the Heritage X is gonna be a noticeable difference in stiffness?
From the reg Heritage?

My Heritage X is a 56 & its stiff as fuck.
My Legacy is a 59 & it's a noodle compared to the Heritage X.
seeing as they kinda get stiffer as they get bigger, I thought the Legacy would be a lot stiffer?


TT


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## SnowDogWax (Nov 8, 2013)

timmytard said:


> I haven't ridden as many of the boards on your big list, ya bastard:bowdown:
> 
> But I've ridden a handful. Too me, it sounds like it would ride most similar to the Heritage?
> I haven't ridden the Dark One, but the Heritage is really aggressive & stiff. Nothing like the Legacy, not even close.
> ...


The HeritageX edge to edge transition was not to my liking, the 163 felt big. HeritageX was stable, fast, riding switch doable, just didn't do it for me. The 159W High Life was stiffer than the HeritageX. Was my go to board for booming the mountain. When committing to riding switch High Life and I departed company. As far as the difference in stiffness from the X & regular I think you size 9 would love a smaller waist board. Just having ridden wide boards your a regular width board would make a huge difference.


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## gordon (Mar 16, 2014)

Maybe Im just big or something because the Legacy feels soft to me. I'm 6'5", 220 with size 14 boots. I ride the 166 Legacy and while it feels great in many ways, it definitely doesn't feel stiff at all. There is a lot of flex there and the 166 doesn't feel big at all.


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## SnowDogWax (Nov 8, 2013)

gordon said:


> SnowDogWax I am jealous of your incredible time on the mountain. I have to ask, how do you manage that?
> 
> Sounds like your board choices are in line with mine. What was the defining feature that hooked you on the Darker vs all the others?
> 
> Thanks


Bought every board that seemed to fit my riding style at the time. Thinking was research, buy, ride, evaluate, add board to quiver or sell. The Darker Series board has taken a 7 board quiver down to 3. 

Darker Series 164
Donek GS specific board in research not bought yet. 
Smokin Superpark fun/mogul/park board.


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## SnowDogWax (Nov 8, 2013)

gordon said:


> Maybe Im just big or something because the Legacy feels soft to me. I'm 6'5", 220 with size 14 boots. I ride the 166 Legacy and while it feels great in many ways, it definitely doesn't feel stiff at all. There is a lot of flex there and the 166 doesn't feel big at all.


I'm 6'3" 11.5 boot 220LBS. Your 14 boot makes you a wide board guy. Riding style takes time to develop. Buying a bunch of boards is not normal, or needed to develop as a rider. Each person knows when they outgrow a board. This forum really helps to make the switch to the correct board more possible. But in the end, it's the rider that makes the board sing. But when the board matches your riding style and has that special feel it helps with that mental edge and confidence to just rip, taking your riding progression to that next level. 
Your riding style is the reason why the Legacy does not feel stiff, take that into consideration as you look for your next board.


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## gordon (Mar 16, 2014)

All good points SnowDogWax. Granted I've been riding on and off for over 20 years but more recently upgraded gear. I grew up skateboarding as well and am used to being super aggressive with the board to get it to do what I want (especially in pools and parks). Sounds like I will want to gravitate towards a stiffer board again down the road. Thanks


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## timmytard (Mar 19, 2009)

SnowDogWax said:


> The HeritageX edge to edge transition was not to my liking, the 163 felt big. HeritageX was stable, fast, riding switch doable, just didn't do it for me. The 159W High Life was stiffer than the HeritageX. Was my go to board for booming the mountain. When committing to riding switch High Life and I departed company. As far as the difference in stiffness from the X & regular I think you size 9 would love a smaller waist board. Just having ridden wide boards your a regular width board would make a huge difference.


Maybe you just had too big of a Heritage?

The Heritage X I have is stiff as fuck.
In comparison to the rest of the Never Summer line 

It's not really what I'd call a super stiff deck compared to real stiff decks though.
I've got a couple Palmer Titanium Channel decks.
They're narrow compared to most decks especially @ the 164cm length.

They are stiff, real stiff. By far the most torsionally stiff board I've come across in the 26 years I've been ridin'.:bowdown:

Most of the boards I have are normal width.
My size 9's from the last couple years have had some sort of shrink tech, effectively giving me a size 8 footprint.

I've had 2 Lotus' & I have last years Infinity & the years before.
They're fun, soft boards. If they made a chick stick in anything over 160, I'd own it:thumbsup:

I have 2 Evo's & a Proto too, but I don't really feel the difference in width.
Sure, maybe a bit?

What I do feel is the difference the width gives you when you are carving.
Not the fraction of second longer it takes to get from edge to edge.
The difference I feel is the amount of trench I can dig.:thumbsup:

When I put my boots in my bindings, then my board on the floor.
When I tilt it to see the point @ which my boots touch.

It's past 90 degrees:blink:
Not that it's possible to carve past 90.
But I can come as close as possible.

You'd have to be runnin' some pretty funky angles to do that on a regular width deck.

Then there's the float of it:thumbsup:
The added width adds to the float without having to size up the length:eusa_clap:

All I can say is.

If you get a chance to ride one demo or otherwise.
Try the X. Even if you don't need it.


TT


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## SnowDogWax (Nov 8, 2013)

Jay Peak temps are dropping, by Wednesday it should firm up enough. Will be attempting some of those carve's on both Darker Series & Rossi 167 XV. Your a sick dude riding at those angles, nice to hear from another board freak. I'm reformed and in snowboarding AAA so don't try to get me to demo the X. :storm:


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## emc19 (Jan 29, 2014)

SnowDog chill bro I already bought 4 boards this year. You had a big influence on me picking up the RipSaw, I really dont need to add a Lib


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## SnowDogWax (Nov 8, 2013)

emc19 said:


> SnowDog chill bro I already bought 4 boards this year. You had a big influence on me picking up the RipSaw, I really dont need to add a Lib


mg: I'm in hiding  others asked that I be:ban:bought boards:dunno: now asking :question: like mg: also :WTF: can't take it any longer :storm: so emc19 :rock: the RipSaw:yahoo:


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