# Boots are killing my feet.



## ThredJack (Mar 18, 2014)

I bought a pair of boots at the end of last season, got a good fit, and they were cheap(since I bought them in May).

The boots fit really well, until they broke in. Now my feet are killing me! I thought they were supposed to get MORE comfortable as they broke in, not less!?

What gives? Am I the only one this happened to?(Please TELL me I'm not, can't be.)


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## Extremo (Nov 6, 2008)

Some boots are cheap as shit. After they break in, they break down. Been through a few myself. Sounds like you'll need new boots. 

What are they?


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## ThredJack (Mar 18, 2014)

Extremo said:


> Some boots are cheap as shit. After they break in, they break down. Been through a few myself. Sounds like you'll need new boots.
> 
> What are they?


Burton Invaders. I know they're inexpensive beginner boots, but I expected more than 5 days!


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

Hi Thred,

Unfortunately, this happens all the time. The most common reason is that the boot packs out as all boots will (typically by roughly 1 full size - 1cm) and is then effectively too large. 

This is especially problematic when the boot was purchased for a comfortable fit on initial sizing. 

Please pull out the insert, stand on it with your bare foot and snap off some photos. That will give us all a good idea of what is going on inside.

STOKED!


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## Mystery2many (Aug 14, 2013)

Happened to me too. Had a pair of K2 Maysis that were heaven on my feet in the store and at home and walking to the lift (I was pretty excited about them too) but when I rode with them they were unbearable to ride with. They didn't even pack out they just hurt when I rode and felt great when stopped or walking. Guess its just one of those things.


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## racer357 (Feb 3, 2011)

^^^ same experience with the K2 Maysis. Amazing to wear and walk in, but when trying to ride in them they were like ancient foot torture devices. Luckily the local K2 rep refunded me for them.


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## speedjason (May 2, 2013)

Mystery2many said:


> Happened to me too. Had a pair of K2 Maysis that were heaven on my feet in the store and at home and walking to the lift (I was pretty excited about them too) but when I rode with them they were unbearable to ride with. They didn't even pack out they just hurt when I rode and felt great when stopped or walking. Guess its just one of those things.


Lol, thats weird. My Salomon F3.0 Feels great when riding but walking in them is hard. It's on the stiff side.


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## ThredJack (Mar 18, 2014)

Wiredsport said:


> Hi Thred,
> 
> Unfortunately, this happens all the time. The most common reason is that the boot packs out as all boots will (typically by roughly 1 full size - 1cm) and is then effectively too large.
> 
> ...


The photos are a problem tonight, as my computer is being a bitch and doesn't want to transfer files from my phone. I'll try again tomorrow. What angles should I take from?

I researched proper fit(on this site), and the boots fit they way they were supposed to, going by that. At least when I left the store they did....


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

ThredJack said:


> The photos are a problem tonight, as my computer is being a bitch and doesn't want to transfer files from my phone. I'll try again tomorrow. What angles should I take from?
> 
> I researched proper fit(on this site), and the boots fit they way they were supposed to, going by that. At least when I left the store they did....


Cool, photos will be helpful. If you could shoot them so we can see the overhang of your bare foot to the removed insert that would be best. Just pull the insert out of the liner, stand on it and shoot away 

It sound from your first post like the boots worked for you while riding _before_ they broke in. That is what concerns me. 

Let's have a look and we will know a lot more. That will at the very least rule out size as an issue.


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## ThredJack (Mar 18, 2014)

Okay here's a couple. For reference these are an 8.5 foot bed.


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

ThredJack said:


> Okay here's a couple. For reference these are an 8.5 foot bed.


Hi Thred,

Thank you for posting those photos. Those boots are quite a bit larger than would be suggested. Typically we look for the foot to overhang the insert by a full cm. You are about 1 cm _inside_ the confines of the insert which means about 2 cm (two shoe sizes) from the ideal. The foot overhang insures that the correct firm pressure into the compliant liner materials is present. That is required to support your foot. In its absence the foot is free to move back and forth which can cause huge discomfort. This will always get worse during the initial break in period.

You mentioned an 8.5 footbed (and I will assume boot). Please measure your foot using this method:

Kick your heel (barefoot please, no socks) back against a wall. Mark the floor exactly at the tip of your toe (the one that sticks out furthest - which toe this is will vary by rider). Measure from the mark on the floor to the wall. That is your foot length and is the only measurement that you will want to use. Measure in centimeters if possible, but if not, take inches and multiply by 2.54 (example: an 11.25 inch foot x 2.54 = 28.57 centimeters).


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## ThredJack (Mar 18, 2014)

Using your method, I got 25.5 cm.

The 2 sizes makes sense, I'm a 7.5 in hockey skates, so I guess I should look at that in boots as well?


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

Hi Bro,

Yes, 25.5 is 7.5 in snowboard boots. The extra room in your current boot...unfortunately there is no good way to fix that problem. On the upside, when you get in a properly fit boot you are going to be blown away by the direct reaction you get to your rider input. Boots really are the foundation of your gear and a bad fit in boots will negate even the best package. 

STOKED!


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## ThredJack (Mar 18, 2014)

Wiredsport said:


> Hi Bro,
> 
> Yes, 25.5 is 7.5 in snowboard boots. The extra room in your current boot...unfortunately there is no good way to fix that problem. On the upside, when you get in a properly fit boot you are going to be blown away by the direct reaction you get to your rider input. Boots really are the foundation of your gear and a bad fit in boots will negate even the best package.
> 
> STOKED!


Thanks for the help man! I'll be going on a hunt today, hopefully I can find something that fits, and isn't in some obnoxious color. If not, guess I need to resort to ordering online, and returning what doesn't fit...


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## ThredJack (Mar 18, 2014)

After checking all the local shops, I found no 7.5's available. Guess I'll have to resort to ordering online, and returning what doesn't fit...


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## ThredJack (Mar 18, 2014)

UPDATE: I ordered two pairs off backcountry.com. A pair of 32 Prion and a pair of Burton Rampant.

The Prion are the weirdest shaped things ever. Too narrow and too low a volume in the toe box, too wide in the forefoot, but perfect in the heel.

The Rampant on the other hand. Toes just brush the cap, snug, no pressure points, and no heel lift at all. Perfect. I'll put them on again tomorrow, just to be sure, but so far...

I'll be returning the 32's, but I think I'll exchange them for something else, just to be sure I don't find something that fits even better, I might just run through all the softish boots available. Unless you guys think I shouldn't bother, and just stick with the Rampant?


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

Hi Bro,

What did you mean by, "Toes just brush the cap?"


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## ThredJack (Mar 18, 2014)

Wiredsport said:


> Hi Bro,
> 
> What did you mean by, "Toes just brush the cap?"


Sorry, toes just brush the end.


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

Thanks. Just brushing the end is going to be significantly too large. You are looking for firm pressure into the end of the boot (especially when new). You can guage this by removing the insert again. You should be overhanging the insert by a full cm (barefoot). Here are some fit tips:

Your boots should be snug!

The most common complaint about boots is that they are too loose, not to tight. The junction between rider and board begins with the boot, as it is in the most direct contact with the rider. When fitting boots, use the following method: A. Slip into the boot. B. Kick your heel back against the ground several times to drive it back into the boot's heel pocket. C. Lace the boot tightly, as though you were going to ride. NOTE: This is where most sizing mistakes are made. A snowboard boot is shaped like an upside down "7". The back has a good degree of forward lean. Thus, when you drop into the boot, your heel may be resting up to an inch away from the back of the boot, and your toes may be jammed into the front of the boot. Until the boot is tightly laced, you will not know if it is a proper fit. D. Your toes should now have firm pressure against the front of the boot. As this is the crux of sizing, let's discuss firm pressure: When you flex your knee forward hard, the pressure should lighten, or cease, as your toes pull back. At no time should you feel numbness or lose circulation. Your toes will be in contact with the end of the boot, unlike in a properly fit street or athletic shoe (snowboard boots are designed to fit more snugly than your other shoes). When you have achieved this combination of firm pressure and no circulation loss, you have found the correct size!


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## ThredJack (Mar 18, 2014)

Wiredsport said:


> Thanks. Just brushing the end is going to be significantly too large. You are looking for firm pressure into the end of the boot (especially when new). You can guage this by removing the insert again. You should be overhanging the insert by a full cm (barefoot). Here are some fit tips:
> 
> Your boots should be snug!
> 
> The most common complaint about boots is that they are too loose, not to tight. The junction between rider and board begins with the boot, as it is in the most direct contact with the rider. When fitting boots, use the following method: A. Slip into the boot. B. Kick your heel back against the ground several times to drive it back into the boot's heel pocket. C. Lace the boot tightly, as though you were going to ride. NOTE: This is where most sizing mistakes are made. A snowboard boot is shaped like an upside down "7". The back has a good degree of forward lean. Thus, when you drop into the boot, your heel may be resting up to an inch away from the back of the boot, and your toes may be jammed into the front of the boot. Until the boot is tightly laced, you will not know if it is a proper fit. D. Your toes should now have firm pressure against the front of the boot. As this is the crux of sizing, let's discuss firm pressure: When you flex your knee forward hard, the pressure should lighten, or cease, as your toes pull back. At no time should you feel numbness or lose circulation. Your toes will be in contact with the end of the boot, unlike in a properly fit street or athletic shoe (snowboard boots are designed to fit more snugly than your other shoes). When you have achieved this combination of firm pressure and no circulation loss, you have found the correct size!


I get the firm pressure you speak of on my big toe, the other toes however are just brushing. So I need to keep looking?


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

Will it be possible to upload another insert shot?


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## ThredJack (Mar 18, 2014)

Sure. How's these?


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

Ahhh boots...

Here's my fit for reference:


















27.5 cm foot lenght measured by The Wiredsports method, and that's a mens US11 TM2 footbed. Mondo sizing says i should be 9.5

Have you tried a good insole? Superfeet are really nice, they bring your toes in a little bit and give you better support over the whole foot... your foot has a VERY different shape than mine; looks like your arch collapses. Any boot that fits your lenght will probably crush the sides of your feet. My case is the other way around... firm pressure lenghtwise leaves my heel/ankle too loose.

I think you should look into wider boots and definitely get aftermarket insoles to keep the arch from collapsing. Arch support can be uncomfortable at first, so do some research on the best type of insoles for your arch.


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## ThredJack (Mar 18, 2014)

I'm not aware of any arch collapsing. The couple pairs of wider boots I've tried my feet were absolutely swimming.


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

ThredJack said:


> I'm not aware of any arch collapsing. The couple pairs of wider boots I've tried my feet were absolutely swimming.


One of the photos from your post above. 
See that bulge on the side of your foot? why does that happen?
is your foot that same shape without pressure, or does it get wider when you stand on it (apply pressure).... if your feet get wider then your arch is probably collapsing to some degree. People with collapsing arches (flat footed) get tired easily and experience pain when walking or doing feet-heavy excercise.

On the other hand... see my foot? my toes hang outside the insole lenghtwise, but the sides are contained neatly within the insole. My feet are narrow.

Your foot: short on the insole, but way outside the insole on the sides. Your foot is wider.

Superfeet (and others) insoles help with arch support and keep them from collapsing; this helps keep your feet from getting so wide when you stand on them.

That ^ is only a possibility. An ortho or podiatrist would know. Or someone who actually deals with boot fitting and saw your foot and how it behaves.


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

Hi Thred,

Thanks again for those photos. This is looking a lot better than the original boot. You are still about .5 to 1 cm off from the mondo size but with your foot width You will not likely get there in comfort unless you move to a wide model. You are only exceeding the footbed on your big toe in terms of width. If you go to a wide model in .5 cm smaller you will be in the ideal territory . A lot of users here have opted for the Salomon Dialogue Wide and have noted great results.

STOKED!


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## ThredJack (Mar 18, 2014)

Wiredsport said:


> Hi Thred,
> 
> Thanks again for those photos. This is looking a lot better than the original boot. You are still about .5 to 1 cm off from the mondo size but with your foot width You will not likely get there in comfort unless you move to a wide model. You are only exceeding the footbed on your big toe in terms of width. If you go to a wide model in .5 cm smaller you will be in the ideal territory . A lot of users here have opted for the Salomon Dialogue Wide and have noted great results.
> 
> STOKED!


Is there any way to tell if a boot is .5 cm shorter? The problem is, finding a 7.5 boot is hard enough, add wide to the mix and it's now twice as hard.

When I went shopping last week, only one shop said he stocked that size at all, and being a small local shop, he will likely only have a limited number of models to choose.

Should I just bite the bullet and look at women's boots as well as men's?


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

ThredJack said:


> Is there any way to tell if a boot is .5 cm shorter? The problem is, finding a 7.5 boot is hard enough, add wide to the mix and it's now twice as hard.
> 
> When I went shopping last week, only one shop said he stocked that size at all, and being a small local shop, he will likely only have a limited number of models to choose.
> 
> Should I just bite the bullet and look at women's boots as well as men's?


Hi,

Women's lasts are narrower than men's. That would take you in the wrong direction. For 7.5 you are likely going to be shopping online and possibly directly from the brand. A mondo shoe size is 1cm so 1/2 shoe size is .5 cm.


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## ThredJack (Mar 18, 2014)

Wiredsport said:


> Hi,
> 
> Women's lasts are narrower than men's. That would take you in the wrong direction. For 7.5 you are likely going to be shopping online and possibly directly from the brand. A mondo shoe size is 1cm so 1/2 shoe size is .5 cm.


Wait, so does that mean I need a 7? (Sorry, I'm a bit confused here.)


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

ThredJack said:


> Wait, so does that mean I need a 7? (Sorry, I'm a bit confused here.)


Hah! So assuming that the boot in the last set of photos was a 7.5 (is that correct?) then I would suggest a 7 in the Dialogue Wide. Those appeared to be .5 to 1 cm too large and the original 8.5's were 1.5 to 2 cm too large. Is it possible that your foot measurement was off a bit? Please measure the length of the 7.5 insert in your last photo.


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## ThredJack (Mar 18, 2014)

Wiredsport said:


> Hah! So assuming that the boot in the last set of photos was a 7.5 (is that correct?) then I would suggest a 7 in the Dialogue Wide. Those appeared to be .5 to 1 cm too large and the original 8.5's were 1.5 to 2 cm too large. Is it possible that your foot measurement was off a bit? Please measure the length of the 7.5 insert in your last photo.


That was indeed a 7.5. 25.3 is the insole measurement.

I can't seem to find that model. Salomon doesn't seem to sell direct off the site like Burton does. So far I've found 7.5 at evo.com, but that's it.


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

ThredJack said:


> That was indeed a 7.5. 25.3 is the insole measurement.
> 
> I can't seem to find that model. Salomon doesn't seem to sell direct off the site like Burton does. So far I've found 7.5 at evo.com, but that's it.


Got it. The 7.5 Dialogue will be a good choice. It has a bit more of a performance fit than the current Burton 7.5 that you took photos of and will be nice and snug. Because of the wider last the firm pressure will be more even all around and with a heat fit and break in period you will be in a whole new world of boot loving performance.


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

Wiredsport said:


> Hi Thred,
> 
> Thanks again for those photos. This is looking a lot better than the original boot. You are still about .5 to 1 cm off from the mondo size but with your foot width You will not likely get there in comfort unless you move to a wide model. You are only exceeding the footbed on your big toe in terms of width. If you go to a wide model in .5 cm smaller you will be in the ideal territory . A lot of users here have opted for the Salomon Dialogue Wide and have noted great results.
> 
> STOKED!


^ what he said.


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## ThredJack (Mar 18, 2014)

Wiredsport said:


> Got it. The 7.5 Dialogue will be a good choice. It has a bit more of a performance fit than the current Burton 7.5 that you took photos of and will be nice and snug. Because of the wider last the firm pressure will be more even all around and with a heat fit and break in period you will be in a whole new world of boot loving performance.


Thank you! I will order those before they sell out, and return the others to backcountry!

I appreciate all your help with this Wired(and don't worry, I will be sure to post a scathing thread dragging your name through the mud if they don't work out.  )

I also appreciate your input as well F1, I wasn't ignoring you.


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

ThredJack said:


> I appreciate all your help with this Wired(and don't worry, I will be sure to post a scathing thread dragging your name through the mud if they don't work out.  )


If I can't get it right for you after 4 pages I deserve everything I have coming 

STOKED!


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

ThredJack said:


> Thank you! I will order those before they sell out, and return the others to backcountry!
> 
> I appreciate all your help with this Wired(and don't worry, I will be sure to post a scathing thread dragging your name through the mud if they don't work out.  )
> 
> I also appreciate your input as well F1, I wasn't ignoring you.


hahaha
Don't worry. I'll help you when you roast Wired  jk jk


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## ThredJack (Mar 18, 2014)

Order placed!

It seems I literally got the last pair available, anywhere. Hopefully they work out!


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## ThredJack (Mar 18, 2014)

Aaaaaaaand, I just got them. Sending them back, I couldn't wear them for more than 5 minutes.....looks like I'm waiting until Fall.


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

ThredJack said:


> Aaaaaaaand, I just got them. Sending them back, I couldn't wear them for more than 5 minutes.....looks like I'm waiting until Fall.


Damn that sucks
The best you can do is go to shops. Depends where you live it may be difficult, but you could do so in the off season if you visit an area that has shops.

I can't buy off internet. Mostly because mondo sizing is waaay too small for me and i feel every little single bump, stitching etc from boots. So even if something fits i may not be able to bear it.

Try boots or see a bootfitter. Seems like your only options.


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## ThredJack (Mar 18, 2014)

F1EA said:


> Damn that sucks
> The best you can do is go to shops. Depends where you live it may be difficult, but you could do so in the off season if you visit an area that has shops.
> 
> I can't buy off internet. Mostly because mondo sizing is waaay too small for me and i feel every little single bump, stitching etc from boots. So even if something fits i may not be able to bear it.
> ...


I tried the shops first, nothing. All I could find were 8's which were either too big, or (in the case of one pair of Nikes) too small. My usual shop said I should hit their tent sale on Columbus Day, and I MIGHT find something. Pretty much everyone else said they have to special order them, but can only do so in season. At that point, I may as well just order off the internet, save me the gas.

I found a pair that fit at one shop, but they were knock offs. All his boots were, won't be going back there again.

Internet may be my only option.

Edit: Put them on again, and only one area is an issue. The "bunion" area of each foot has a pressure point, though it's not terrible. I played with the lacing, and now they're more comfortable, I think I may have just cranked the liner down too tightly. Could these just need a break in?


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## Irahi (May 19, 2011)

ThredJack said:


> Internet may be my only option.


Fellow size 7, long time rider here. Internet is in fact your only option, and you're fighting me and everybody else with size 7 feet for the three sets of each boot that backcountry stocks in that size each year.

Your best bet is to watch for new incoming stock starting around August and start binge ordering the moment you see them.

Also take a gander at this thread for some other challenges that you're going to face as a size 7 rider. You're going to find that the industry is effectively hostile to our foot size, so you're going to have to do a *lot* of adaptation to the poor equipment choices you're faced with.


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## Rotcoddam411 (Jun 19, 2014)

After reading through this thread and measuring my foot, came to see I have been riding 1 size to big for the whole year. Mhm... Excuse for new boots?


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

ThredJack said:


> Edit: Put them on again, and only one area is an issue. The "bunion" area of each foot has a pressure point, though it's not terrible. I played with the lacing, and now they're more comfortable, I think I may have just cranked the liner down too tightly. Could these just need a break in?


Hi Bro,

Yes, that is a completely normal reaction when switching from a loose street shoe fit to a performance snowboard boot fit. The boot will pack out up to one full shoe size (1 cm) during the first couple of weeks of riding. Have you heat molded the boot yet? That will take care of your "bunion" area. You can selectively blow out that area during heat molding as well. 

To confirm all of the above please post up one more photo of your bare foot on the new insert.


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## ThredJack (Mar 18, 2014)

Wiredsport said:


> Hi Bro,
> 
> Yes, that is a completely normal reaction when switching from a loose street shoe fit to a performance snowboard boot fit. The boot will pack out up to one full shoe size (1 cm) during the first couple of weeks of riding. Have you heat molded the boot yet? That will take care of your "bunion" area. You can selectively blow out that area during heat molding as well.
> 
> To confirm all of the above please post up one more photo of your bare foot on the new insert.


I have not heat molded them yet, is there a way to do so myself? Or should I find a boot fitter for this? 

I'm really happy that these DO seem to be working out, as I really like these Salomons. Better than any Burton I've ever tried(that's about all I can find around here, with the occasional Nike or 32 mixed in). 

Pics will be in the next post, once I log in on my phone.


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

ThredJack said:


> I have not heat molded them yet, is there a way to do so myself? Or should I find a boot fitter for this?
> 
> I'm really happy that these DO seem to be working out, as I really like these Salomons. Better than any Burton I've ever tried(that's about all I can find around here, with the occasional Nike or 32 mixed in).
> 
> Pics will be in the next post, once I log in on my phone.


Stoked to hear that. They will only get better with time. Heat fit can be done at home with a blow drier etc, but the result is always less than it could and should be. Having your boots heat molded at a shop is well worth the time. Let them know if you still have issues with your trouble spots after the first fit. That is an easy fix and they will know exactly what to do.


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## ThredJack (Mar 18, 2014)

Ignore the bright yellow socks lol

I will bring them to the shop this weekend! So stoked that I seem to have found the boots! Let this be a lesson kids, try things on MORE than just once.


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

ThredJack said:


> I tried the shops first, nothing. All I could find were 8's which were either too big, or (in the case of one pair of Nikes) too small. My usual shop said I should hit their tent sale on Columbus Day, and I MIGHT find something. Pretty much everyone else said they have to special order them, but can only do so in season. At that point, I may as well just order off the internet, save me the gas.
> 
> I found a pair that fit at one shop, but they were knock offs. All his boots were, won't be going back there again.
> 
> ...


That seems normal. Heat molding will help you out with that. Unless it's brutal


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## ThredJack (Mar 18, 2014)

F1EA said:


> That seems normal. Heat molding will help you out with that. Unless it's brutal


Like I said, it's not terrible. Though it's definitely there, I can wear them around without it becoming unbearable. I think heat molding will do the trick.


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## Bamfboardman (Dec 11, 2012)

I rode Burton Ions this year and they fucking killed my feet. I put new insoles in and everything, just had to suffer through.


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

ThredJack said:


> Ignore the bright yellow socks lol
> 
> I will bring them to the shop this weekend! So stoked that I seem to have found the boots! Let this be a lesson kids, try things on MORE than just once.


Yup. Looking good. Get'em fit and rip 'em.


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

ThredJack said:


> Like I said, it's not terrible. Though it's definitely there, I can wear them around without it becoming unbearable. I think heat molding will do the trick.


Yeah, it SHOULD feel somewhat uncomfortable at first. 

Id say just keep wearing them around the house, at least so you can pin point the trouble areas. Then heat mold paying attention to the trouble areas, or go to a fitter.

I've done heat molding at home, it's easy; but I wouldn't recommend it to others just to be safe. 

I'm buying boots before the end of this month... i'll probably have to try like 10 boots.


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## ThredJack (Mar 18, 2014)

F1EA said:


> Yeah, it SHOULD feel somewhat uncomfortable at first.
> 
> Id say just keep wearing them around the house, at least so you can pin point the trouble areas. Then heat mold paying attention to the trouble areas, or go to a fitter.
> 
> ...


I'll be wearing them around the house, definitely.

Yeah, I'm not planning on doing my own heat molding. I'm sure I'd be able to do it just fine, but I'd rather be safe than sorry I just ruined my new boots. There's a fitter at a local shop I go to sometimes, so I'll go see him.

I think I tried about that before I found these. I actually like trying boots on, and may hit that tent sale anyway, just to get an idea of how different models fit my foot. Can't hurt to find out, I figure.


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