# Did Jake Burton Kill someone?



## Engage_mike (Oct 14, 2011)

Hey all...I'm new to this forum and I'm loving the posts...I think I've already read 500 posts in 2 days but I've noticed something...there is absolutely no talk about Burton boards,bindings,boots or at least if there is...it surely isn't positive and I know (although I'm inexperienced) they are not a bad manufacturer...but I just wanted to know...are Never Summer, Lib Tech, GNU, K2, Ride... boards that much more superior, and if so..Please do a compare and contrast for me so I can see there is a legitimate difference or is it just a "commercial" hatred towards Burton. Looking forward to your replies! (P.S. you all really have sold me on the Never Summer line..thus the power of the message boards! :cheeky4: )


----------



## S4Shredr (Oct 23, 2009)

Engage_mike said:


> Hey all...I'm new to this forum and I'm loving the posts...I think I've already read 500 posts in 2 days but I've noticed something...there is absolutely no talk about Burton boards,bindings,boots or at least if there is...it surely isn't positive and I know (although I'm inexperienced) they are not a bad manufacturer...but I just wanted to know...are Never Summer, Lib Tech, GNU, K2, Ride... boards that much more superior, and if so..Please do a compare and contrast for me so I can see there is a legitimate difference or is it just a "commercial" hatred towards Burton. Looking forward to your replies! (P.S. you all really have sold me on the Never Summer line..thus the power of the message boards! :cheeky4: )


I used to love Burton. I rode a Custom for about 4 years. Once that was pretty beat up I decided to get a JJ pro model and the tail snapped in 2 weeks. So I warrantied it the Gigi Un. Inc. and the tail snapped in exactly the same way. At that point it was getting to the end of the season and I could either wait and get the next seasons board or get store credit. I took the credit and switched to the Rome Agent and rode that for 4 years, the thing was indestructible. I just switched at the end of last season to the rome agent rocker which also kicks ass. Hence my dislike for burton boards. Their outerwear is alright, just a bit pricy for the specs they offer.


----------



## snowklinger (Aug 30, 2011)

In my limited experience alot of Burton products are kind of like McDonalds. You can drive through and get fed, but that's about it. If you are looking for craftsmanship, bomb-proof quality or BC gear, look elsewhere. If you ride in bounds and need something to just get the job done Burton is fine. Unfortunately even though they are middle of the road quality at best, their gear is priced at a premium.

Almost every rental in the world is a Burton, this is practically the only reason u see their boards on the slopes. Their boots and bindings probably have the widest appeal of most of their products. The Moto boot is the top selling boot for the last 10 years, of course, again, rentals could be responsible for this. The Cartel bindings in particular are also popular.

Disclaimer: I have a Burton helmet and use the liner glove/mitt combo from them as well. As I have said in other posts, this gear is fine, but there is almost no reason that I would re-purchase these items, I simply got a great deal on them. At full price ... meh.


----------



## david_z (Dec 14, 2009)

Part of the issue, IMO, is that as a "premium" brand, they command a higher price than most other manufacturers for similar quality equipment. It is like the difference between shopping at Macy's vs. Saks.


----------



## Phunky (Oct 5, 2011)

Its more the fact that Burton products are overrated and not particularly worth the extra cash. That being said i own a pair of Burton pants and love them(only reason i got them because they were $75), i also at one point owned a pair of their custom bindings, had them for a few seasons, and busted them this past winter. They did me well for a few years, but deck-wise i will never own a Burton board.


----------



## Engage_mike (Oct 14, 2011)

See...again I'm still not understanding because no one can really be critical of the other brands...I see NS boards and they start in the 500's..compare the burton custom with a NS SL? same price point what are the differences? I've always heard the custom is a great board...on these message boards I see no love...strange?


----------



## david_z (Dec 14, 2009)

NS is a higher build quality (they have a well-deserved reputation for being bombproof snowboards) and still 100% made in the USA. I'm not suggesting that cost of production justifies price, but many people value "made in the USA" and are willing to pay a premium price for it. Other people value "name brand" are are willing to pay a premium price for a board with "Burton" stamped on it. 

I think that for the most part, that latter group does not include very many members on this forum who tend to be a lot more knowledgeable & discerning than the average guy or gal who snowboards maybe 5 or 6 days a season.


----------



## WasatchMan (Aug 30, 2011)

Engage_mike said:


> See...again I'm still not understanding because no one can really be critical of the other brands...I see NS boards and they start in the 500's..compare the burton custom with a NS SL? same price point what are the differences?


bomb proof / 3 year warranty


----------



## BurtonAvenger (Aug 14, 2007)

Engage_mike said:


> See...again I'm still not understanding because no one can really be critical of the other brands...I see NS boards and they start in the 500's..compare the burton custom with a NS SL? same price point what are the differences? I've always heard the custom is a great board...on these message boards I see no love...strange?


No one can be critical of the other brands? I can shit on just about every brand on earth for one of their products if you want. Educate yourself outside this forum whole world of reviews and knowledge out there. The Angry Snowboarder good starting point right there.


----------



## HoboMaster (May 16, 2010)

This must be the 10th incarnation of the yearly "Why does everyone hate Burton?" thread. Price and quality are factors, but I think a lot of it simply has to do with the fact that Burton holds a huge share of the snowboarding sales market and people want something different/unique. As the biggest player in snowboarding (behind Redbull,lewl) they can also afford to not be as competitive, which people may not like (once again price/quality factor).


----------



## grafta (Dec 21, 2009)

I don't know if its a 'we all hate burton thing'. Maybe there are a ton of other good products out there as well, and people here (on this particular forum) like researching and finding gear that best suits them.

As mentioned pricing comes into it and sometimes burton seems to be slightly on the expensive-side for a comparable product. For example, someone was posting looking at three jackets (1 burton, 1 ThirtyTwo, 1 Special Blend) all similar prices, the burton was 5k waterproof while the other two were 10k and just generally better products... if they went with the higher spec special blend then burton still got the sale.

Burton also owns Anon, R.E.D, Analog, Forum, Special Blend, Foursquare so they've got a big chunk of the market and certainly ain't missing out on any of the action... correct me if i'm wrong (i'm no expert)


----------



## snowklinger (Aug 30, 2011)

BurtonAvenger said:


> No one can be critical of the other brands? I can shit on just about every brand on earth for one of their products if you want. Educate yourself outside this forum whole world of reviews and knowledge out there. The Angry Snowboarder good starting point right there.



Since its sorta on-topic, I've been wondering about BA's handle for awhile now... does it imply that he is a champion (super hero style) for Burton...or a hater (this seems likely as hatin' [read critical :laugh:] is what he's good at).

Just always found a curious irony/disconnect with BA's written content and his handle, wonder from whence it hails and meaning.

(if anyone cares I always put Klinger in my handles cuz I'm a huge M*A*S*H fan and will kill it in a dress )


----------



## Cr0_Reps_Smit (Jun 27, 2009)

hes actually jakes illegitimate son.


----------



## killclimbz (Aug 10, 2007)

That's the thing about irony snowklinger. It's so fucking ironic...


----------



## snowklinger (Aug 30, 2011)

killclimbz said:


> That's the thing about irony snowklinger. It's so fucking ironic...


wait what..:laugh:


----------



## Lstarrasl (Mar 26, 2010)

They give Shaun White a pro model and don't give Terje a pro model. Reason enough not to buy a board from them.


----------



## david_z (Dec 14, 2009)

Yeah but Shaun White is such a marketing power house that he's now hawking gum, scooters and other stuff.


----------



## Bones (Feb 24, 2008)

Engage_mike said:


> compare the burton custom with a NS SL? same price point what are the differences? I've always heard the custom is a great board...on these message boards I see no love...strange?



The Custom is an okay board, but it hasn't got a 3 year warranty, newer tech and the bombproof build. It's just another cambered board. 

The whole point of the Burton "hate" is that it shouldn't be at the same price point as NS or other such companies. Personally, I'd put the Custom $125-$150 lower, maybe more. At its current price point, it's a disappointing purchase. And in my experience, that goes for pretty much everything Burton. I've bought some sale stuff and been pretty happy, but then found out the original MSRP was something utterly ridiculous


----------



## ThunderChunky (Oct 1, 2011)

They're expensive, corporate, and not that good. If you want quality Burton products your paying higher than any other in the market and the quality is still equal to the average of other companies for much less. The main reason I personally refuse to buy from them is because they have shit products and they aren't what snowboarding is about (at least to me). The only Burton stuff I've owned were socks and the heels got holes in them after about five days of riding. They also only care about money. They sponsor people like SW and then treat the real riders like shit. I can't remember who it was, but there was a young kid that was about 18 or so. He was a BC rider and got hurt to the point where he couldn't ride for a season....so what does Burton do. Instead of sticking to there riders they drop him. Companies like Rome, Ride, NS, Libtech, and GNU are the real companies. You can tell a lot about a company by who they sponsor. The only people I respect from Burton are JJ, Terje, KP and Muller. Now unfortunately they got Jackson.:dunno: Bottom line, they don't care about snowboarding.


----------



## ThunderChunky (Oct 1, 2011)

grafta said:


> I don't know if its a 'we all hate burton thing'. Maybe there are a ton of other good products out there as well, and people here (on this particular forum) like researching and finding gear that best suits them.
> 
> As mentioned pricing comes into it and sometimes burton seems to be slightly on the expensive-side for a comparable product. For example, someone was posting looking at three jackets (1 burton, 1 ThirtyTwo, 1 Special Blend) all similar prices, the burton was 5k waterproof while the other two were 10k and just generally better products... if they went with the higher spec special blend then burton still got the sale.
> 
> Burton also owns Anon, R.E.D, Analog, Forum, Special Blend, Foursquare so they've got a big chunk of the market and certainly ain't missing out on any of the action... correct me if i'm wrong (i'm no expert)


They do own them, it's a shame too. The only one of those companies I buy from is Special Blend, becasue they do make really quality stuff. I feel real shitty when I buy it though.


----------



## CheeseForSteeze (May 11, 2011)

Don't hate Burton, don't love them. I'll give their products a fair shake if it looks like quality and has the features I want. Hence, I am giving the Malavita ReFLEX a try this year: they are around the same price point as everything else and has the stuff I want.

The fact is, Burton commands a higher price than everything else just due to brand recognition and the value just isn't there most of the time.


----------



## grafta (Dec 21, 2009)

Its a nice, accessible and 'safe' brand that screams SNOWBOARDING to beginners who are looking to buy 'good' gear without the research required to find the quality more obscure brands. That's when the superhero's at SnowboardingForum.Com step in to SAVE THE DAY!!!!


----------



## skycdo (Sep 15, 2011)

grafta said:


> Its a nice, accessible and 'safe' brand that screams SNOWBOARDING to beginners who are looking to buy 'good' gear without the research required to find the quality more obscure brands.


That pretty much sums it up. Burton's marketing strategy is pure genius. It caters to a huge portion of society- the lazies. If you go on their website everything is super visual and super interactive. Makes you feel all fuzzy inside. It leaves one hell of an impression on the viewer and that's what they care about. They put out useless crap that will feed your emotional side and make you wanna buy their crap. They spend way too much money on marketing than they should be. But at least some of their stuff isn't made in China. Be careful with Ride's boards. I got a Kink and it has less than 6 days and the top sheet graphics are falling apart. If they can't even get a sticker right I am scared to find out what happens if I land a jump too biased on nose or tail...

ANYWAYS, I don't hate them but I heard there are small shops who refuse to carry them now. Wonder why?


----------



## threej21 (Jan 2, 2011)

i have a ride kink and put like 45 hard days on it last year, even asking it to do more than intended with like 30ish foot jumps...no problem with it whatsoever...

i actually LOVE all of rides products that ive tried, especially their bindings


----------



## HoboMaster (May 16, 2010)

skycdo said:


> ANYWAYS, I don't hate them but I heard there are small shops who refuse to carry them now. Wonder why?


I have talked to a shop-owner who doesn't sell Burton and it's because they make you buy a huge volume of their shit. That's why big-box sports stores are FULL of Burton, and little boardshops don't even carry it. It's a numbers game.


----------



## killclimbz (Aug 10, 2007)

HoboMaster said:


> I have talked to a shop-owner who doesn't sell Burton and it's because they make you buy a huge volume of their shit. That's why big-box sports stores are FULL of Burton, and little boardshops don't even carry it. It's a numbers game.


That is the main reason. You have to carry one of their "lines" which includes a bunch of shit your shop may not want. The other problem I've seen shops have with Burton is they put demands on how their product is displayed in a shop. Reps will literally come into a shop and tell them they have to change displays around because Burton product isn't being showcased correctly. So not only do they make you buy a shit ton of product, but they also tell you how to run your shop.


----------



## linvillegorge (Jul 6, 2009)

skycdo said:


> They put out useless crap that will feed your emotional side and make you wanna buy their crap. They spend way too much money on marketing than they should be.


But, it works.

90% of people who snowboard only do so occasionally. They aren't hardcore riders. Burton caters to the 90%. It's a smart business plan.


----------



## BurtonAvenger (Aug 14, 2007)

snowklinger said:


> Since its sorta on-topic, I've been wondering about BA's handle for awhile now... does it imply that he is a champion (super hero style) for Burton...or a hater (this seems likely as hatin' [read critical :laugh:] is what he's good at).
> 
> Just always found a curious irony/disconnect with BA's written content and his handle, wonder from whence it hails and meaning.


 Stems from my level of awesomeness that the internet can not handle. You seen how many people do not understand me and constantly get quick to respond with threats of violence? 




ThunderChunky said:


> They're expensive, corporate, and not that good. If you want quality Burton products your paying higher than any other in the market and the quality is still equal to the average of other companies for much less. The main reason I personally refuse to buy from them is because they have shit products and they aren't what snowboarding is about (at least to me). The only Burton stuff I've owned were socks and the heels got holes in them after about five days of riding. They also only care about money. They sponsor people like SW and then treat the real riders like shit. I can't remember who it was, but there was a young kid that was about 18 or so. He was a BC rider and got hurt to the point where he couldn't ride for a season....so what does Burton do. Instead of sticking to there riders they drop him. Companies like Rome, Ride, NS, Libtech, and GNU are the real companies. You can tell a lot about a company by who they sponsor. The only people I respect from Burton are JJ, Terje, KP and Muller. Now unfortunately they got Jackson.:dunno: Bottom line, they don't care about snowboarding.


If you want to talk about companies supporting riders I can tell you horror stories from every company you have listed there. Companies 90% of the time do not value their riders. I have friends that are pro/am that I constantly give product to because their sponsors won't send them new shit but they'll send me crap till the cows come home. Riders are just a marketing tool they don't have clout or pull poof gone sucks but true. 




killclimbz said:


> That is the main reason. You have to carry one of their "lines" which includes a bunch of shit your shop may not want. The other problem I've seen shops have with Burton is they put demands on how their product is displayed in a shop. Reps will literally come into a shop and tell them they have to change displays around because Burton product isn't being showcased correctly. So not only do they make you buy a shit ton of product, but they also tell you how to run your shop.


Part of the problem. I think the minimum for Burton is something like 25g's or more which for any small shop sucks up half of your buying budget. I've never had Burton come into a shop I've worked at and demand they get better placement I think that's more up to rep discretion because I've worked at shops where Burton was our biggest order and we put it towards the back and hyped Ride, Salomon, and K2 way more. 

If you guys want to talk quality I can safely say all companies have turds. QC is only so good and sometimes factories cheap out on materials to save a buck and put it in their pockets. Don't care what company it is there shit will break. All you NS fanboys keep saying they're bullet proof I've broken more of their boards in the last 5 years than anything from K2, Ride, Lamar, Arbor, Smokin, Rome, Bataleon, Mervin, blah blah blah insert your favorite boner inducing brand here. Shit breaks you deal with it I've broken boards 5 minutes after putting bindings on it and I've had boards that have broken after 100 days. Quality is pretty much subjective at this point and just comes down to R&D, materials, the rider, and conditions. 

Does Burton make over priced stuff? Yeah but so do other brands. Do I think 550 for a Proto is too much? Fuck yeah I do that board isn't that boner inducing that I would warrant paying more for it when all they did was slap a new topsheet that they have been using on another model, change the lay up, cut the tips off which I've said they needed to do for years, and tweak the marketing. 

Every consumers job is to remove their head from their ass and wipe the shit from their eyes. When you can see clearly you should be going to demo's oh what they don't have them on days you can go fuck work go ride you only live once and if you're spending your money on a board you should fucking sack up and take some responsibilities. Research the fuck out of anything forums are great but would I read one review on here and say fuck yeah I'm going to spend 500 bucks on this stunt stick? Fuck no I'm going to go read reviews all over the place even if its a source I fucking hate. Why? Because if you can grasp a general consistency across the board from all those sources you can probably figure out what it is you're getting. I'll also go to a shop or two and talk to their staff it's what they're paid for. Ask them questions challenge their minds if they aren't answering your questions go elsewhere but at least build a rapport with these people.

I've been fist fucked in the ass on more than one occasion with Burton and you know what I still ride their crap regularly. I give all their stuff the same chance I give anything else. I love the hinge in their bindings it makes so much sense and actually works. The Hero and Joystick are two of my favorite boards in their line up and I would definitely rock a Hero if I wasn't limited to EST. 

As far as any consumer goes vote with your dollars and do your research you control the market and you control what sells and doesn't sell. You have the power to make or break any company out there.


----------



## JayMess686 (Jul 14, 2011)

the only thing i like about burton are their pants never had a problem with them.


----------



## caneyhead (Jan 5, 2009)

As far as I know their boards are fine. I'm annoyed by the fact that their hole pattern is different. I don't like the fact that they are such a huge company. Personal preference. 

I wear the shite out of their clothes though. Will likely look at their boots this year too since no shop around here stocks the Salomans I like.


----------



## CheeseForSteeze (May 11, 2011)

I'm also willing to bet that the majority of people on here have owned or at one point owned Burton. If you put everyone's gear on the table, there would be more Burton stuff than any other brand. The point is that Burton is so prevalent that information about their products is not hard to come by. The value of this board is information about boards that are sold at much lower volumes. For every Skate Banana thread on here, there is probably 7-10 NS threads, a couple of K2 threads, a couple of Ride threads, an Arbor thread etc. Yet there are probably more Skate Bananas sold every year than all of NS's inventory put together. There's just more information about those high volume sellers so no one comers here to ask - google will easily find you tons of information. Want to know about an Arbor Del Ray? Google probably won't find you near as much info as coming here and asking.


----------



## lisevolution (Sep 20, 2007)

I always find the Burton is so corporate reason for why people don't like Burton amusing. Yes they are a big company...who are privately owned and run by one of the founders of the sport. Most of your other board brands are owned by a much larger global corporate conglomerate and are the antithesis of what Burton has been about with regards to the sport. That said do I ride Burton gear no. I personally have had some bad experiences with their equipment in the past so I choose to spend my money with the companies that have held up to my oversize adult male abuse. I have owned boards and from most major manufacturers in my boarding history, last year I went with NeverSummer to give something different a try. Yes I like my board but I'm also pretty sure I would like a Ride, K2, Rome,Lib/GNU also. Some of their gear is a bit more expensive then the competitors but it's not so exorbinant that it's life changing to go with another brand. 

Here on the east coast you see a lot of Burton product on the mountains. Part of that is because of the weekend warriors like myself coming out in large volumes, and part of it is also because the east coast is their home turf and they have a huge presence here. I take a couple of west coast trips a year to go ride and I'm amazed how much more Burton I see in the east than I do out west. 

Like BA said, you can look at every company and see both crap and quality in their line. Sometimes you can get the exact same product and one will be a POS and the other will last you 5 years. 

Bottom line is buy what you like and what fits what you're trying to do. Don't take any review from someone other than yourself as gospel though if you see a good consensus amongst a number of outlets there is probably a good reason. The only way to truly know if you like how something rides or fits or feels etc is to get your hands on it directly. Depending on where you live sometimes that's difficult because some brands don't travel to every locale. In that circumstance sometimes you just have to say "F" it and take the risk. If it turns out you're not happy with it, put up for sale and grab something new.


----------



## henry06x (Feb 16, 2011)

Burton makes good stuff and cheap shit. Any large manufactorer does. I dont care for them on another stand point. The fact that roughly 80% of Burton's sales have nothing to do with snowboarding. They have become such a mainstream brand that they don't even really need snowboarding anymore. Nothing drives me crazy more than when I'm at a party or something and someones wearing a Burton hoodie or jacket so I ask them about boarding and they have never touched a snowboard or even skies. Or when someone I know whos doesn't know Burton asks "why don't you have all Burton stuff, arnt they the best stuff?" no they all make good stuff but people just know and think Burton is automatically the best caz of Shaun White who is more interested in his own personal fame than his snowboarding, but that's a different conversation lol.


----------



## HoboMaster (May 16, 2010)

Omg, I've seen so many people with Burton backpacks at campus... and I know for a fact 75% of them don't snowboard.


----------



## Qball (Jun 22, 2010)

Nothing wrong with Burton. None of their boards really excite me though and I don't like EST so I have no reason to buy their boards. I have an AK jacket and it has been solid so far.


----------



## Sudden_Death (Mar 23, 2011)

HoboMaster said:


> Omg, I've seen so many people with Burton backpacks at campus... and I know for a fact 75% of them don't snowboard.


This is a silly argument. I see people with North Face and Kelty packs too, pretty sure they have never tackled Everest. Burton makes a good back pack, they also make good hoodies and assorted other stuff. Do you bitch at people in Nautica because they don't own a sailboat?


----------



## BoardWalk (Mar 22, 2011)

Sudden_Death said:


> Do you bitch at people in Nautica because they don't own a sailboat?




Not if they're strapping in wearing sandals.


----------



## david_z (Dec 14, 2009)

Sudden_Death said:


> This is a silly argument.


Hobomaster was making a statement, not an argument.



Sudden_Death said:


> Do you bitch at people in Nautica because they don't own a sailboat?


No, I bitch at people in Nautica because they have the audacity to wear some shit as hideous as Nautica.


----------



## HoboMaster (May 16, 2010)

Yea, that was meant as a statement. It's just interesting because the skateboarding industry went the same way, where brands like DC and Volcom once were "core" and are now worn by people who have never touched an action sport in their life. Nothing wrong with using something if you like it, regardless of brand affiliation, but to see manufacturers who once made action sports specific stuff go into the mainstream market is interesting. Just means their business is doing so well they can branch out of a niche market, which some people attribute to "selling-out".


----------



## crazyface (Mar 1, 2008)

In my personal experience, their bindings aren't very durable. I had a pair of freestyles that did not even last an entire season. My friend has some custom bindings that cracked in the base. And when he sent them in to get repaired, Burton did nothing, either they didn't see the crack or it wasn't under warranty. I talked to some kid in my local shop who had his EST bidings break where they screw onto the board.


----------



## henry06x (Feb 16, 2011)

Sudden_Death said:


> This is a silly argument. I see people with North Face and Kelty packs too, pretty sure they have never tackled Everest. Burton makes a good back pack, they also make good hoodies and assorted other stuff. Do you bitch at people in Nautica because they don't own a sailboat?


Burton does have some good stuff, as well as cheap crap. North face has branched out into other sports such as technical outerwear for all snow sports. Point being It'd be like me wearing a-star and skin stuff and I don't ride 4-wheelers or dirtbikes. I wear things affiliated with what I enjoy doing. Support the brands of what I enjoy and not the ones that the main audience have nothing to do with anymore. Not saying everyone should. That's just my feeling and I know other people feel the same.


----------



## Sudden_Death (Mar 23, 2011)

HoboMaster said:


> Yea, that was meant as a statement. It's just interesting because the skateboarding industry went the same way, where brands like DC and Volcom once were "core" and are now worn by people who have never touched an action sport in their life. Nothing wrong with using something if you like it, regardless of brand affiliation, but to see manufacturers who once made action sports specific stuff go into the mainstream market is interesting. Just means their business is doing so well they can branch out of a niche market, which some people attribute to "selling-out".


Gotcha. I could see the whole core argument 10 years or so ago, but snowboarding and so called action sports have been mainstream for a long long time. And good or bad that is partly due to Burton. And Burton has been making stuff for the mainstream market almost as long as they have been making boards.


----------



## Vrud (Sep 2, 2011)

Jesus hates Burton. I trust his judgement.


----------



## the REASON (Sep 30, 2011)

i have burton boots, pants, and jacket. i like em. eat it.


----------



## HoboMaster (May 16, 2010)

the REASON said:


> i have burton boots, pants, and jacket. i like em. eat it.


Well aren't you fierce and convincing.


----------



## notter123 (Nov 11, 2010)

HoboMaster said:


> Well aren't you fierce and convincing.


I was convinced... and now slightly scared too


----------



## Listheeb21 (Jan 20, 2011)

Part of my reasoning for avoiding Burton is how ubiquitous the brand is in the market, particularly on the East Coast (as lisevolution alluded to). Not nearly as much of it elsewhere.

Burton is the easy choice...it's everywhere: Dick's Sporting Goods, Sports Authority, etc. And while I would concede that they offer enough entry level products to get new riders into the sport, much of their marketing is catered toward wealthy suburbian kids whose parents are more than happy to slap down the Black AMEX card to purchase enough stuff to fill their Range Rover and who love to say "Steez" and "Safety Meeting."

Burton is the 800lb. gorilla in the room, the biggest, baddest player in the game...and I prefer to support smaller, lesser known companies whose products can stand up to and even beat the big guy's stuff yet don't need the marketing and hype to do so. It's the same reason I don't buy Nike.


----------



## Snowboard_Otaku (Oct 12, 2011)

Honestly... to me i think Canadians have less choice in their brands.... I can really only speak for Ontario cause i live there

By no means am i a fan of burton no care about brand names... what ever seems like quality and is cheap i'll take it...

1) We dont have alot of brand names here... like never summer or what not because we just dont carry them
2) no shop local pride because we dont have anything local ?
3) With the new currency exchange everything in the states cost cheaper... but the border fees are insanely ridiculous
4) looking at other brand we have here... union bindings cheapest is prolly 220 Cad then they go up to 290 then up to 400 dollars.... If burton offers something at 160 - 250 i wont complain....
5) whatever other brands we have are only carried in very limited numbers and those get snached up really quickly so there really isnt much choice

BOARDS

one of the stores that never carries burton but their prices are high

P.S Add 13% tax to every price tag you see here


----------



## dtshakuras (Jun 2, 2011)

HoboMaster said:


> Yea, that was meant as a statement. It's just interesting because the skateboarding industry went the same way, where brands like DC and Volcom once were "core" and are now worn by people who have never touched an action sport in their life. Nothing wrong with using something if you like it, regardless of brand affiliation, but to see manufacturers who once made action sports specific stuff go into the mainstream market is interesting. Just means their business is doing so well they can branch out of a niche market, which some people attribute to "selling-out".


And are you those people who consider that selling out?


----------



## henry06x (Feb 16, 2011)

Listheeb21 said:


> Burton is the 800lb. gorilla in the room, the biggest, baddest player in the game...and I prefer to support smaller, lesser known companies whose products can stand up to and even beat the big guy's stuff yet don't need the marketing and hype to do so. It's the same reason I don't buy Nike.


I agree with buyin and supporting the smaller company. I for the most part do that with everything I buy including trying to stray from walmart exc. Only sad thing is that with how greedy the economy has become, those smaller businesses we are supporting (maybe not all but a large majority) would give just about anything to reach the status of those larger company's. Including on selling out and turning their backs on those who helped build the company to where it's.


----------



## Tech420 (Jul 1, 2011)

You hear the same thing about Nike. Personally I own both and could care less about who owns the most of what or who is only in it once they could make a ton of money. I bought the products that I wanted for specific reasons and could care less who it is made by as long as it performs how I expect it to.


----------



## Sudden_Death (Mar 23, 2011)

Snowboard_Otaku said:


> Honestly... to me i think Canadians have less choice in their brands.... I can really only speak for Ontario cause i live there
> 
> By no means am i a fan of burton no care about brand names... what ever seems like quality and is cheap i'll take it...
> 
> ...


I agree we get hosed on the exchange rate but where in ON are you? Where I am we have dealers for Never Summer, Lib, Rome, Battaleon pretty much every player I can think of.


----------



## Snowboard_Otaku (Oct 12, 2011)

GTA area... planning to head to waterloo on sat to another store for boots


----------



## CheeseForSteeze (May 11, 2011)

HoboMaster said:


> Well aren't you fierce and convincing.


I think he is. I now plan to get this now tattooed on my penis:










Then if I see a girl riding a Burton Vapor, after we have sex I can say:

"You would have thought you'd learned the first time."
Her "Learned what?"
"Not to get fucked by Burton more than once."


----------



## Sudden_Death (Mar 23, 2011)

Snowboard_Otaku said:


> GTA area... planning to head to waterloo on sat to another store for boots


Odd. I would have figured the city of 4 million would have had better selection than the city with 1. But I guess TO isn't exactly a winter sports city.


----------



## Snowboard_Otaku (Oct 12, 2011)

Sudden_Death said:


> Odd. I would have figured the city of 4 million would have had better selection than the city with 1. But I guess TO isn't exactly a winter sports city.


the thing is space is very precious in the city... so there is very limited warehouse /storeage space...

thus half the sheld is filled with burton boot with has about 6... maybe 1 or 2 from vans... 3-4 from salomon.. 1-2 from northwave...

how can u pick the boots when the only choices are burton for the wide range of display... the vans or salomon boots are prolly ranging from very beginner boots or very advance... the choices just arnt there


----------



## BurtonAvenger (Aug 14, 2007)

Oh no a company in it to make money. Fuck them for trying to stay in business!


----------



## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

I just don't trust ICS. That's my reason. And with some shitty developments in my contact's contact's I may actually be in some Malavita's this year. Burton makes solid bindings and with the introduction of zero stock lean they are actually on my radar.


----------



## HoboMaster (May 16, 2010)

dtshakuras said:


> And are you those people who consider that selling out?


My attitude on "selling out" mostly revolves around what it does to economics with the creation of mega-businesses who obtain major shares of markets. I don't really give a shit about who's core and who not, I just mainly don't like corporations purely for what they do to a society - gobble up the small guys and enforce trickle-down economics.



> Then if I see a girl riding a Burton Vapor, after we have sex I can say:
> 
> "You would have thought you'd learned the first time."
> Her "Learned what?"
> "Not to get fucked by Burton more than once."


:laugh::laugh::laugh:


----------



## AtBothEnds (Oct 16, 2011)

This thread is hilarious, here are (more than) a few thoughts:

It’s funny how people call Burton “corporate” (or anything else to that effect) when it’s still privately owned. Could “being corporate” be explained to me? I see few fingers pointed at snowboard companies that are now publicly traded or subsidiaries of corporations that have little/nothing to do with snowboarding. How many of those who have an issue with Burton being “corporate” don’t have an issue with visiting a ski hill that is owned by an actual corporation? This question can be extended to pretty much every other purchase in our lives as well. If you dislike a company solely because it’s large or financially successful then you need to have your head examined.

Mostly, people hate Burton because it’s the big player in the industry and also is not afraid to admit it. If Burton is the most accessible product then, logically, it will be used by the most people; Burton has made an effort to be accessible to ensure it's survival. I’m sure that most other companies would love to be in the position that Burton holds.

People can beef all they want about higher prices for Burton products that are comparable to what other companies produce but the market dictates prices. Burton will charge what it feels customers will pay, just as most/all other companies do. If customers stop buying at those prices then the company will adjust or fail. 

As far as how they treat their pros, well, endorsements are nothing more than a marketing tool for companies. Companies will employ those who are felt do the best job to realize a company’s vision no matter if it’s the guy on the loading dock or a high profile brand ambassador. 

People are bummed on Shaun White? Seriously? Grow up. Give me an example of an issue you have with him that doesn’t tie to his recognition in or outside the sport. Do you feel the people who shop at Target are “stealing” snowboarding from you because of him? Are you afraid more people might start snowboarding because they see him on TV?

People want to beef about Burton’s quality. Every brand will put out something that doesn’t measure up to consumers’ expectations in one way or another. Burton gets the most attention because it sells the most products; therefore, it will likely have the highest quantity of defective (or viewed as defective) products. I would be curious to see where Burton stacks up against other companies as far as percentage of products sold with legitimate quality issues at different price/material levels. I doubt Burton would be too far out of line with the rest of the industry. If anyone here has any insight/info I’m very curious about it. I also think that Burton is held to a higher standard than much of the rest of the industry by many people who take a “guilty until proven innocent” attitude towards Burton’s products in regards to quality. 

People who don’t snowboard (or don’t snowboard as much as is deemed "worthy") buy Burton stuff? Well, should Burton vet all potential customers prior to any purchases made? Perhaps some testing/licensing process should be implemented in order for customers to be deemed worthy? If this is the case with Burton then it must be implemented on all consumer goods.

I bet if Burton operated in the exact same way it does now but only sold a fraction of the boards they do people would be all over the company because it took steps to stay “underground.”

What’s funny is that without Burton’s success and influence on the sporting world most/all people on this forum likely wouldn’t even be here whether they’ve owned Burton products or not. 

HoboMaster: I don’t want to come across as insulting but you don’t seem to understand what economics is. To anyone who understands the terms used in your last post (and basic economics in general) what you wrote makes zero sense. At best you are confusing government policy with self-interest.

As a side note, it’s really strange how people will choose to associate themselves with one brand over another in order to project an image for themselves.


----------



## Engage_mike (Oct 14, 2011)

So...This has been an awesome thread and I totally get it...there is no reason people truly hate Burton!  This reminds me of me when I was a kid...and I had a favorite local band....Then I had to hate the band because they "Sold Out" because god forbid they actually created a song which became mainstream...I mean god forbid they become successful and are able to make a living out of what they love..but this is normal. People tend to want to just belong to something...and when that something is small and intimate that is how they feel, like they are a real part of it. BUT THEN IT BLOWS UP TO THE MILLIONS! and people won't stand for that kind of success..now its time to find that other little band, anyways that is how I see this whole Burton Hatred...glad to see Jake Burton didn't kill anyone..he is just to blame for being a successful businessman and spending $#!T loads of money on R&D to help innovate this sport which everyone on this board loves. I almost have become more of a Burton Fan now....I think Burton should come out with an awesome board...price it fair and call it the HATER! cause that would be AWESOME!  Keep threading...you guys are funny!


----------



## BurtonAvenger (Aug 14, 2007)

They have the BURTON HATE. 

I can give a ton of reasons why Burton sucks on the retail/industry end of snowboarding that doesn't hurt anyone on this board at all. Reasons that they are hated by many shops and what not but consumers I pretty much got fuck all.


----------



## HoboMaster (May 16, 2010)

AtBothEnds said:


> This thread is hilarious, here are (more than) a few thoughts:
> 
> It’s funny how people call Burton “corporate” (or anything else to that effect) when it’s still privately owned. Could “being corporate” be explained to me? I see few fingers pointed at snowboard companies that are now publicly traded or subsidiaries of corporations that have little/nothing to do with snowboarding. How many of those who have an issue with Burton being “corporate” don’t have an issue with visiting a ski hill that is owned by an actual corporation? This question can be extended to pretty much every other purchase in our lives as well. If you dislike a company solely because it’s large or financially successful then you need to have your head examined.
> 
> ...


Yes, I completely agree sometimes my terminology mixes itself up. In other words, what happens when Company A becomes proportionally larger then B C and D? It buys out B C D, absorbs them, increases it's market share, and the profits that wen't to a lot of different people in a lot of different businesses now go to a select few. This multiplies itself until we get WalMart, who can operate on such a massive scale that they put everyone else out of business, because they cannot compete. I feel like the economy and the wealth distribution was far better when many smaller competing outlets existed, compared with the way it is now - several giant entities dominating an entire market. It's a matter of power and wealth distribution mostly.


----------



## Justin (Jun 2, 2010)

Snowboard_Otaku said:


> GTA area... planning to head to waterloo on sat to another store for boots


maybe head into barrie or collingwood? closer to the ski hills.


----------



## CheeseForSteeze (May 11, 2011)

AtBothEnds:

I agree with all your points which is probably reflected in the fact I'm strongly anti-centrally planned economically and more towards free market.

However, the free market gives people the option to hate on a company in regards to the ethical practices and how it impacts the sub-culture they are a part of; a vote with your dollar if you will. True, Burton's expansive growth probably made the market big enough to get lots of people on this very message board into the game. But lots of their practices are things people don't want: forcing orders of large volumes so that shops can't diversify their limited budgets among several brands, trying to "patent" snowboarding among others.

I'm not saying I necessarily agree or disagree with those tactics, but there are people that do and choose not to buy Burton because of it and I respect their decision to vote with their dollar. It is better, after all, than resorting to governmental intervertion with commercial controls.


----------



## hikeswithdogs (Sep 23, 2011)

Here's my take\understanding on Burton as I've owned two 5 burton boards over the last 15 years, the high end boards(Vapor, T7, Method, bla bla bla) built here in the states are pretty bad ass and probably worth near the money they change since their supposedly built by hand in Vermont by real snowboarders.

With that said I hate the fact that I have to use Burton bindings with Burton boards so I'll never purchase another burton board, besides that I don't like having what everyone else has so I try to vear away from whatever is "popular" or "trendy" at the time.


----------



## killclimbz (Aug 10, 2007)

They don't build anything production wise out of Vermont anymore. It's just R&D in Vermont now. Manufacturing has been turned over to the Chinese (!), Europeans, Nigerians, the Trolls of Middle Earth or something...


----------



## hikeswithdogs (Sep 23, 2011)

killclimbz said:


> They don't build anything production wise out of Vermont anymore. It's just R&D in Vermont now. Manufacturing has been turned over to the Chinese (!), Europeans, Nigerians, the Trolls of Middle Earth or something...


Woh when did that happen, my 2009 T6 says build by hand in Vermont right on the board?!?!?

I thought the crap boards were built in China, the medium boards built in Canada(think Custom, sherlock ect) and the uber high end boards built in Vermont?


----------



## kpd2003 (Sep 8, 2011)

BurtonAvenger said:


> Oh no a company in it to make money. Fuck them for trying to stay in business!


Shame on them!


----------



## killclimbz (Aug 10, 2007)

hikeswithdogs said:


> Woh when did that happen, my 2009 T6 says build by hand in Vermont right on the board?!?!?
> 
> I thought the crap boards were built in China, the medium boards built in Canada(think Custom, sherlock ect) and the uber high end boards built in Vermont?


It's on Transworld business buried a year or two back. They stopped all US production and turned what they had in Vermont into their R&D group. They named it something after Craig Kelly. Craig Kelly R&D plant, something along those lines. It very well may have been last season that they made this change. I forget.


----------



## killclimbz (Aug 10, 2007)

Here ya go.

Burton to close South Burlington manufacturing plant | Vermont Business Magazine


----------



## Extremo (Nov 6, 2008)

Burton makes great stuff...but so do a shit load of other companies. So while all the newbs and turds are all "burtoned up" for the winter, the rest of us are out enjoying the alternatives.


----------



## HoboMaster (May 16, 2010)

Extremo said:


> Burton makes great stuff...but so do a shit load of other companies. So while all the newbs and turds are all "burtoned up" for the winter, the rest of us are out enjoying the alternatives.


This. You can debate for hours and hours, but it's mostly just about picking different brands for the sake of being different.


----------



## hikeswithdogs (Sep 23, 2011)

killclimbz said:


> Here ya go.
> 
> Burton to close South Burlington manufacturing plant | Vermont Business Magazine


High end board shop moved to Austria

Not like I was going to run out an buy another high end Burton(fuc3 ICS) but who the hell is gonna spend 700-1500$ on a burton that's not even made in the USA or may not even be made by a fellow rider being paid a living wage!?!?!?!?


----------



## Sudden_Death (Mar 23, 2011)

I'd rather have a trained tech making my boards as opposed to basing it on whether the guy can spin a 3. Plus, it isn't like Austria is the third world. There is as good a chance that the Austrian building your board rides as there is that the American building your board does. Hell soon enough odds are the Chinese guy will too.


----------



## killclimbz (Aug 10, 2007)

hikeswithdogs said:


> High end board shop moved to Austria
> 
> Not like I was going to run out an buy another high end Burton(fuc3 ICS) but who the hell is gonna spend 700-1500$ on a burton that's not even made in the USA or may not even be made by a fellow rider being paid a living wage!?!?!?!?


Austria is kind of the mother lode for alpine sports in Europe. Including snowboarding. I have no idea where the plant is, but most towns are super close to resorts. A lot of them have lifts and trails that end at the local city Tavern. It's a scene unlike anything we have here. 

That, and a lot of very high quality boards are produced in Europe. They've only been making ski related stuff for a few centuries longer than their American counterparts. So it's not like they have more experience or anything...


----------



## the REASON (Sep 30, 2011)

HoboMaster said:


> Well aren't you fierce and convincing.


i try...


----------



## Karasene (Oct 20, 2010)

Engage_mike said:


> So...This has been an awesome thread and I totally get it...there is no reason people truly hate Burton!  This reminds me of me when I was a kid...and I had a favorite local band....Then I had to hate the band because they "Sold Out" because god forbid they actually created a song which became mainstream...I mean god forbid they become successful and are able to make a living out of what they love..but this is normal. People tend to want to just belong to something...and when that something is small and intimate that is how they feel, like they are a real part of it. BUT THEN IT BLOWS UP TO THE MILLIONS! and people won't stand for that kind of success..now its time to find that other little band, anyways that is how I see this whole Burton Hatred...glad to see Jake Burton didn't kill anyone..he is just to blame for being a successful businessman and spending $#!T loads of money on R&D to help innovate this sport which everyone on this board loves. I almost have become more of a Burton Fan now....I think Burton should come out with an awesome board...price it fair and call it the HATER! cause that would be AWESOME!  Keep threading...you guys are funny!


Yep. Totally agree. I'm actually looking forward to demoing more of their boards this season. Even if they have a bad rep. I'd like to know myself. The flying V was squirlley but the Nugget looks fun. 

Everyone seems to be afraid of being a sheep but how many people here hate on Burton because of a personal experience. I'm sure not many. If anything it's because you were told/convinced you should hate on them.. and you do.. just like everyone else.


----------



## Engage_mike (Oct 14, 2011)

I think I'm going to be wearing burton helmet, gloves, shirts, pants, boots, bindings, board, and most importantly a Burton RESTRICTED THONG! this season...because I now know that I'm going against the grain just like everyone else with buying their lib techs and NS...Long Live BURTON!!

(P.S. I did just purchase a NS SL...F*ing haters really got to me  )


----------



## vwbrian (Apr 16, 2011)

Didn't burton take credit for inventing the snowboard or something like that?

In the article it said
"Carpenter started the company in Londonderry after seeing someone riding a homemade board."

I have never liked Burton products. 
Don't like the weird hole pattern forcing you to use their bindings
And forcing binding Manufactures to produce 2 sets of discs so they could mount to burton.
Now they have the sliding thing. I thinking 4 bolts to hold me to the board is stronger but not sure.
Minimum orders.
Buying up good small companies. So now I won't buy anything under the burton Umbrella.
I broke my ankle using the Freestyle boot that was total garbage and Had I had on a good stiff boot I would have been able to ride the rest of the season.
Also The gloves I bought were complete garbage they were no where near waterproof hands were wet within the first hour of riding
No board they make that I could ride will be made in the USA. Not that they made very many in the US anyway.
They have been outsourcing their boards for over 25 years.
Jake tried to patent snowboard and sent bills to other snowboard Manufactures.
They sponsered John Johnson, they must have paid him a Sh!t ton of cash.d

Edit Guess john jackson was already on burton sub company Forum. Wonder if he will be in T rices next movie?

What I did like about them Terje, and they kept Craig Kelly Sponsered, Not sure where the rest of the team riders went.


----------



## hanzosteel (Oct 7, 2009)

my two cents... snowboarding was, and still is to a large degree, counter-culture. burton has evolved into a savvy business and achieved market dominance and that makes them mainstream. this clashes with the sentiments of counter-culture thereby making it cool to hate on them. it's the same thing need to rebel, to be different, to stand-out from the norm that characterizes all counter-culture genres. but, ironically, a lot of the haters are just being the sheep that they try not to be by jumping on the bandwagon and hating on the thing that everyone else is hating with little justification. comparing products in burton's line-up to other company's products in the same price point, their prices are not outrageous. comparing failure rates based on volume of sales, i'd bet their quality is on par with every other major player. it's become the social norm to support the underdogs and people think they sound more cool when they profess to support a more obscure brand than their friends.


----------



## Sudden_Death (Mar 23, 2011)

hanzosteel said:


> my two cents... snowboarding was, and still is to a large degree, counter-culture. burton has evolved into a savvy business and achieved market dominance and that makes them mainstream. this clashes with the sentiments of counter-culture thereby making it cool to hate on them. it's the same thing need to rebel, to be different, to stand-out from the norm that characterizes all counter-culture genres. but, ironically, a lot of the haters are just being the sheep that they try not to be by jumping on the bandwagon and hating on the thing that everyone else is hating with little justification. comparing products in burton's line-up to other company's products in the same price point, their prices are not outrageous. comparing failure rates based on volume of sales, i'd bet their quality is on par with every other major player. it's become the social norm to support the underdogs and people think they sound more cool when they profess to support a more obscure brand than their friends.


Snowboarding hasn't been counter culture for at least a decade. It is marketed as such and kids love to think they belong to something special. But if you are looking to snowboarding for that you are looking in the wrong place.Unless you are hiking for your runs and buying used/going DIY with your gear you are feeding one conglomerate after another.The resorts, outerwear, boards, transportation. Skateboarding still has that bit of edge because you can do it pretty much anywhere and to some degree back country and urban riding have that but as to it being underground, that is no more.


----------



## jgsqueak (Mar 9, 2010)

I just read through all of this and it was quite entertaining. I like how people throw the words "fact" and "cheap" and "over-priced" around. 

Some one said something about it being a "fact" that 80% of Burton sales are not snow related. I find that to be a staggering statistic since I work for one the largest Burton accounts and the only thing Burton we sell that is not snow related is is rolling luggage a few non-technical back packs; those sales are less than 5% of what we sell. So if a top 10 account sells 95% snow related product, I find it hard to believe that all of the other Burton accounts sell waaaaay more $50 backpacks (Oh yeah, and look at every other snowboard brand, they sell t-shirts, hats, etc. too)

Someone else talked about "swallowing up smaller brands." Usually the small company getting bought up is about to go out of business. So would you rather see Forum, Blend, and Foursquare go away forever (because Mervin, NS, and Rome would be able to afford to absorb a brand's debt). Acquisitions happen. If they don't, we lose brands...try getting a warranty board from Omatic this year...

They only thing Burton that use/own are my Gore Mitts, but I don't bash the brand. Do they have stuff that works for me (boards, bindings, boots, etc.)? Yes. Do I use them? No (well only when testing next year's product). It comes down to people just wanting to hate on the "big player." I work for a pretty large retailer and I here the hate all of the time. The funny thing is that the people that bash the snowboard selection we have (because I buy for our stores) have a lot less knowledge about snowboards and spend a lot less time on EVERY board out there than I do. It is time to realize that this world is slightly bigger than your needs/desires/image/etc.


----------



## HoboMaster (May 16, 2010)

jgsqueak said:


> Someone else talked about "swallowing up smaller brands." Usually the small company getting bought up is about to go out of business. So would you rather see Forum, Blend, and Foursquare go away forever (because Mervin, NS, and Rome would be able to afford to absorb a brand's debt). Acquisitions happen. If they don't, we lose brands...try getting a warranty board from Omatic this year...


Skipped a link of logic there. Why are the smaller entities going out of business? Because they cannot compete with giants. If the Gorilla was not hoarding all of the bananas, the Chimpanzees wouldn't be starving in the first place.

Yes I know blah blah blah we use our consumer dollars to support big business and make it thrive, hence the reason it exists. Doesn't change the fact that big businesses make small businesses suffer.


----------



## jgsqueak (Mar 9, 2010)

HoboMaster said:


> Skipped a link of logic there. Why are the smaller entities going out of business? Because they cannot compete with giants. If the Gorilla was not hoarding all of the bananas, the Chimpanzees wouldn't be starving in the first place.


I have never known a Burton representative (big gorilla) to reach into a consumers pocket and take money (banana) from them. Please share your experience of when you have seen this happen. "Smaller" companies (chimpanzees) have a tougher time for sure, but usually they lead to their own demise. They are poorly run and the over spend, even though they have quality product and a corner on the market. Forum had a great thing going going, great sales, but it was run with little to no accountability and needed cash to stay a float. Omatic could deliver board on time to save their life (they delivered my boards 3 months late two years in a row and then shipped the wrong boards). In the wakeboard world, a small company called Company went under because they used patented technology and tried to fight it in court rather than pay $2k in royalties. Hard headedness and big egos will crush small business too. What I am saying is, your big gorilla and little chimpanzee argument puts the gorilla vs the chimp fighting over the banana, but in reality they are only fighting for the chance to have the banana choose which one they will go to. 

Last time I checked, every snowboarder makes a choice as to what to spend their money on, some make informed choices, some don't. Get opinions, read reviews, demo it yourself, talk to experts, and then for your own opinions. As it has been mentioned on here, there are plenty of stories of every brand's stuff breaking and failing. 

And plenty of small companies have made it; Never Summer, Union, all Mervin brands, etc.


----------



## BurtonAvenger (Aug 14, 2007)

Karasene said:


> Everyone seems to be afraid of being a sheep but how many people here hate on Burton because of a personal experience. I'm sure not many.


 Have to agree with this I have some horror stories of shit that's happened to me with them and their warranty is a lot different from them but whatever. 



vwbrian said:


> Didn't burton take credit for inventing the snowboard or something like that?
> 
> In the article it said
> "Carpenter started the company in Londonderry after seeing someone riding a homemade board."
> ...


So you chose the softest boot the company makes and you're pissed you got injured while riding but know you need a stiffer boot? Sounds to me like you can't take accountability to your actions. Then again you just sound like a moron. 

Gotta agree with Squeak on points he's making.

FYI all you price hating fear mongers no one is saying buy a Method or Vapor. I'd be content riding a Sherlock, Hero, and Joystick from them which is comparable in price to other brands boards in the same categories. Maybe you should realize they have one of the most diverse lines in snowboarding.

And this is coming from a guy that is definitely not pro Burton by any means.


----------



## Karasene (Oct 20, 2010)

Wow.. I think that's the mellowest post I've ever seen BA write. Is he feeling ok?


----------



## Listheeb21 (Jan 20, 2011)

Karasene said:


> Wow.. I think that's the mellowest post I've ever seen BA write. Is he feeling ok?



I know this is off-topic, but thanks for the "9 days on snow" middle finger, Karasene!


----------

