# New automatic rear entry bindings from Nidecker



## shasty

This looks interesting - hopefully it's superior to the Flow system. It's obv more universal than the Step-on system. 
Would love to start reading reviews end of this year.


----------



## deagol

interesting, I wonder how durability is affected. Seems like it has potential ??


----------



## BoardieK

Wow. Looks great.


----------



## Maya

It would be interesting to test them.


----------



## lab49232

shasty said:


> This looks interesting - hopefully it's superior to the Flow system. It's obv more universal than the Step-on system.
> Would love to start reading reviews end of this year.


Nidecker is Flow, this is just a change to the Flow bindings but being first released branded as Nidecker. The straps, LSR ratchets, most of the components are all from Flow. It will be interesting to see if they release a similar model, or even transition all Flows to this version if it takes off. However in my experience, more parts equals more trouble and these are just Flows with more parts so it'll be interesting to see how they work in practice with snow buildup and the like.


----------



## powderjunkie

I'm skeptical. Looks like it would work well on hardback but as soon as snow gets soft and deep how are you going to get enough downforce to pop the highback up?


----------



## shasty

powderjunkie said:


> I'm skeptical. Looks like it would work well on hardback but as soon as snow gets soft and deep how are you going to get enough downforce to pop the highback up?


I guess you'd have to strap-in traditionally as the video shows, which suggests that there is a manual way to set the highback to the riding position.


----------



## koowa

powderjunkie said:


> I'm skeptical. Looks like it would work well on hardback but as soon as snow gets soft and deep how are you going to get enough downforce to pop the highback up?


They mentioned this in the video. You can still use it like traditional strap bindings in soft deep snow.


----------



## AC93

Looks decent


----------



## SEWiShred

powderjunkie said:


> I'm skeptical. Looks like it would work well on hardback but as soon as snow gets soft and deep how are you going to get enough downforce to pop the highback up?


You can use them like traditional bindings. I don't think this is a huge step up from Flows, but I do think it's a huge step up from Burton Step Ons. I really don't see what the hype about Burton Step On is, every time I see one, I get off the lift, watch them try and get it to lock in, then just do my Flow thing and go on past them. It's not very fast, the step on thing sucks. I think if you compare this to Burton Step On you are going to see it's way better. How would you get back into your Step In if you are in deep snow? At least this has a backup plan with the straps, step in you are out of luck. 

If you are good enough with Flows it just saves you the step of having to reach down and flip up the high back. But if you've been riding them enough, you can handle all of that without even stopping from the chair to making it down the hill. 

I just hope they don't back off the Flow bindings and move entirely to this. It does seem more complex and more likely to break, but I would trust it a lot more than step ons. 

Seems pretty cool to me. First thing I thought was "finally no more high backs dropping down and having to be adjusted all the time"


----------



## Snowdaddy

Since my Step On were kind of a bust I'll give these a try.


----------



## Snowdaddy

SEWiShred said:


> every time I see one, I get off the lift, watch them try and get it to lock in,


I've never had an issue with getting the Step Ons to lock in. Super easy and super quick. My issue has been with the boot fit.


----------



## Radialhead

I just got some Clew step-in bindings. I spent 5 hours doing laps on a short indoor hill on Monday to thoroughly test them, & they're utterly brilliant.


----------



## SEWiShred

Snowdaddy said:


> I've never had an issue with getting the Step Ons to lock in. Super easy and super quick. My issue has been with the boot fit.


I've never seen anyone get into step ons faster than I can get into my Flows.


----------



## Donutz

Ima buy a set. But then I _am _a gear whore.


----------



## koowa

SEWiShred said:


> I've never seen anyone get into step ons faster than I can get into my Flows.


It's easy to get into step ons right off a lift without needing to stop


----------



## Craig64

I would definetly be giving the Step Ons a go if I didn't have a huge amount of other standard bindings EST and ReFlex, SLX/Ions. You have to set up Boots and bindings so that's around a $Au800-1000 full RRP outlay. Maybe when my boots wear out???


----------



## Snowdaddy

SEWiShred said:


> I've never seen anyone get into step ons faster than I can get into my Flows.


Even if you're a couple of seconds faster in your Flows, just clicking in the Step Ons without stopping is till enough for me. Even on places where I've had to stop to click in is still a lot faster than when I use regular bindings. On smaller hills one of the perks of Step Ons is that I don't have to tighten my bindings after a few meters. For some reason when I strap in standing up I usually have to tighten the ratchet a bit after a while.


----------



## koowa

Craig64 said:


> I would definetly be giving the Step Ons a go if I didn't have a huge amount of other standard bindings EST and ReFlex, SLX/Ions. You have to set up Boots and bindings so that's around a $Au800-1000 full RRP outlay. Maybe when my boots wear out???


Yea the price tag is steep. You may be able to find some discounts on prior year models after the season, especially on the first gen models.

Here in Europe there are a lot Burton test centers that let you demo them for free for a day, and they are actively doing tours. Probably why I've been seeing more and more of them lately 😅


----------



## NT.Thunder

God we're all getting lazy or I'm getting old and grumpier, sometimes it's nice to just sit and take in the view


----------



## Snowdaddy

NT.Thunder said:


> God we're all getting lazy or I'm getting old and grumpier, sometimes it's nice to just sit and take in the view


When you're riding with kids, or at small resorts where you are on the lift a lot, Step Ons are great.

Jumping off your board to help a kid up to the lift or crossing a cat track is so much easier on the patience when you can simply step on and off.

I bought Step Ons but after riding them a while I decided the boots are too small in the toebox.


----------



## shasty

I've used step-ons for around 10 days now, and think they're pretty convenient and intuitive.
I like the responsive feel, and I've gotten used to clipping on while getting off the lift line. I think the best use is when you might get stuck in shitty traverses where no amount of base/wax technology will get you to the end. I just clip off instantly, skate, and clip on instantly again. 

That being said, it's hard to convince other ppl to buy into it because you need the boots + binding combo, and lack of good boot options. I had the little toe cramping problem until the boots packed out decently.


----------



## robotfood99

These look promising. We need more of these non-proprietary, bring-your-own-boots solutions.

These will sell like hotcakes because SPC is gonna, you know, 'discover' these and declare them the best innovation in the universe.


----------



## Etienne

I'm not sure about this… I mean, strap-in speed is definitely not a problem, despite marketing trying to tell otherwise for like two decades on and off. At least the step-on brough something else: locking your heel to the board with added reactivity compared to a strap. Here I'm just seeing more moving parts, which just means more problems.


----------



## shasty

robotfood99 said:


> These look promising. We need more of these non-proprietary, bring-your-own-boots solutions.
> 
> These will sell like hotcakes because SPC is gonna, you know, 'discover' these and declare them the best innovation in the universe.


"How to choose the right bindings for your snowboard":

Walk into a shop and find the holy grail that is the Nidecker bindings.


----------



## Scalpelman

Looks awesome. I have Burton malavita, Rome targa, Rossi and Flow Nx2 bindings. Flow are my favs by far. Comfortable responsive and convenient. This takes it to a new level. Although I think the flow fusion binding strap is more responsive and comfortable. This is more of a traditional strap. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## SEWiShred

Etienne said:


> I'm not sure about this… I mean, strap-in speed is definitely not a problem, despite marketing trying to tell otherwise for like two decades on and off. At least the step-on brough something else: locking your heel to the board with added reactivity compared to a strap. Here I'm just seeing more moving parts, which just means more problems.


It depends where you go, there are lots of places that only have like 300 foot vertical drop and high speed lifts. Having high speed entry is a huge deal for a place like that. The bigger the mountain you're on, the less of an advantage quick entry is. 

I swear by Flows because my hill is only 400 foot vert with high speed lifts. I see noobs with traditional bindings take more time to strap in at the top of the hill than it does for me to finish a run. If I go out West on a real mountain, quick entry just doesn't seem worth it, I certainly wouldn't spend the money on a system with proprietary boots and bindings. And to be honest if I found traditional bindings that had a big advantage over some of the Flows I have I would strongly consider it.


----------



## t21

It looks cool,though it's a combination of flow and step-on system. I have the Flow fuse GT hybrid and Step-on binding but i prefer the Burton. I have ridden Step-on for the last two years and no regrets having them on my Warpig and Endeavor maverick. Some advantages of step-on is the convenience of locking in without reaching down for the highback although you need to reach down to unlatch. Step-on has less parts to fiddle with, very responsive, no issues on deep snow, basically brush off the snow on the footbed, step-on and if you are having a hard time clicking in just grab the heel edge of your board to add stability and pressure then press down. Flow does let you use it like a traditional binding but you need to reset your straps again, or you could do the same thing like the step-on. If you have a cargo box and you have friends or family members skis and other boards in there, the step-on highback folds down quite low compared to Flows so you don't have to worry about the cable getting caught or damage hitting the other skis or boards. I bought my Step-on more for convenience than speed of locking in. I can do it if wanted to but it's more entertaining watching other people struggle with their bindings or just enjoy the view of the mountain, i'm not in a rush even in powder days, you can always find untracked powder somewhere. I do agree about the boots, i wear sz.9 wide but DC now also makes step-on boots so that could expand the boot choices. My flow GT is on my powder board(Chamonix chemin) but it's been neglected due to my Warpig does a hell of a job on deep days...and i don't feel like switching boots.


----------



## Donutz

SEWiShred said:


> It depends where you go, there are lots of places that only have like 300 foot vertical drop and high speed lifts. Having high speed entry is a huge deal for a place like that. The bigger the mountain you're on, the less of an advantage quick entry is.
> 
> I swear by Flows because my hill is only 400 foot vert with high speed lifts. I see noobs with traditional bindings take more time to strap in at the top of the hill than it does for me to finish a run. If I go out West on a real mountain, quick entry just doesn't seem worth it, I certainly wouldn't spend the money on a system with proprietary boots and bindings. And to be honest if I found traditional bindings that had a big advantage over some of the Flows I have I would strongly consider it.


This is why I don't use my Flows so much any more. They were really valuable on Seymour, but not so much on Whistler.


----------



## Donutz

On review, there are a couple of potential problems with the new Nideckers. 

One, if the highbacks flop back too far when your foot is out, they might interfere with skating. That's an issue with my Flows, and requires me to snap the Flow highback upright in order to skate any distance.

Two, if the highbacks _don't _flop back down very far, and don't have any freedom in the forward direction, then a low chair might not clear the highback when you're getting on.

First actual user reviews should address these issues.


----------



## t21

Donutz said:


> On review, there are a couple of potential problems with the new Nideckers.
> 
> One, if the highbacks flop back too far when your foot is out, they might interfere with skating. That's an issue with my Flows, and requires me to snap the Flow highback upright in order to skate any distance.
> 
> Two, if the highbacks _don't _flop back down very far, and don't have any freedom in the forward direction, then a low chair might not clear the highback when you're getting on.
> 
> First actual user reviews should address these issues.


 The only advantage this binding has over the step on is the boots. It locks you in almost similar to the burton(except it has straps) and the release lever is the same. I'm sure this would sell like the burton as well if enough positive user reviews comes out soon.


----------



## Kevington

NT.Thunder said:


> God we're all getting lazy or I'm getting old and grumpier, sometimes it's nice to just sit and take in the view


Yep. I really don’t understand what the problem with strapping in is. Takes around 10 seconds. All the step in type stuff just seems marketed at people who are deciding whether to learn to snowboard or ski. Obviously it’s useful if you are physically hindered in some way, otherwise seems like more trouble than it’s worth.


----------



## SEWiShred

Kevington said:


> Yep. I really don’t understand what the problem with strapping in is. Takes around 10 seconds. All the step in type stuff just seems marketed at people who are deciding whether to learn to snowboard or ski. Obviously it’s useful if you are physically hindered in some way, otherwise seems like more trouble than it’s worth.


If you are good enough on Flows you do not even have to stop moving from the chair to the run, you can strap in while moving. Mainly because there is no time when you have to push your foot down to lock anything in. With active strap you just kick your foot in, lean down and flip the high back up, without having to stop at all. It just takes a lot of practice to get that good. I normally like it at small midwestern resorts but when I went to Winter Park and there was a lot of unstrapping to skate over flat areas it was awesome. But I'm pretty sure if you are good enough you could do that with traditional bindings, just the Flows make it easier.

I actually think these types where you have to press down to lock in are worse than flows (step ons and this automatic thing), because you have to be able to push down on your board to lock in. 

But what does it matter, these are probably going to cost $400+ easily.


----------



## Donutz

Hmm, that's an interesting thought. I wonder if you can lock in these bindings by pulling the highback into position. If the mechanism is simple enough, it might have exactly the same effect as pushing down with your heel.


----------



## Jimi7

Interesting. I'd be willing to try them.


Donutz said:


> Hmm, that's an interesting thought. I wonder if you can lock in these bindings by pulling the highback into position. If the mechanism is simple enough, it might have exactly the same effect as pushing down with your heel.


Looks like you could lock in by pulling the highback up. Either way you have to make sure there isn't snow building up under the push down mechanism. I'd definitely be willing to give these a try. Hopefully cost will be reasonable since they're sharing parts with the existing Nidecker/Flow bindings.


----------



## BoardieK

Just popped in to AlloSkis in Le Grand Bornand who are Nidecker, Jones and Korua dealers, he has a pair of these bindings in store and a glimpse here: 
Allo Skis - Grand Bornand Chinaillon

He also has a Nidecker Blade which I'm very tempted by


----------



## Donutz

NT.Thunder said:


> God we're all getting lazy or I'm getting old and grumpier, sometimes it's nice to just sit and take in the view


Or, as in my case, pretend to take in the view while trying to get my wind back.


----------



## tr0n

NT.Thunder said:


> God we're all getting lazy or I'm getting old and grumpier, sometimes it's nice to just sit and take in the view


Older and grumpier, I'd guess. I'm with you, I can spare the 12 seconds it takes to strap in.

But honestly I'd rather skate my ass off to the side and chill for a minute and plan the next line anyways! Or have a puff. Or a sip. Or all of the above.


----------



## Jimi7

tr0n said:


> Older and grumpier, I'd guess. I'm with you, I can spare the 12 seconds it takes to strap in.
> 
> But honestly I'd rather skate my ass off to the side and chill for a minute and plan the next line anyways! Or have a puff. Or a sip. Or all of the above.


LOL. For me it's not so much a time thing. The fewer times I have to get up off the ground in any given day the better as far as I'm concerned.


----------



## SEWiShred

It's an exercise thing for me. Because it takes like a minute to get up my small hill, between that and quick entry, I can burn 7000+ calories in a day according to my garmin smart watch.


----------



## bob2356

Kevington said:


> Yep. I really don’t understand what the problem with strapping in is. Takes around 10 seconds. All the step in type stuff just seems marketed at people who are deciding whether to learn to snowboard or ski. Obviously it’s useful if you are physically hindered in some way, otherwise seems like more trouble than it’s worth.


I agree. Strapping in just isn't a big deal. I tried a set of flows a few years ago to see what they were about and found with the big east coast temp swings I had to constantly fiddle with them day to day. What would work one day needed resetting the next. Something expands and contracts all the time.


----------



## dwdesign

Edit: here's another view:


----------



## Scalpelman

SEWiShred said:


> It's an exercise thing for me. Because it takes like a minute to get up my small hill, between that and quick entry, I can burn 7000+ calories in a day according to my garmin smart watch.


7000 calories! I always wondered how much I burn when I’m running bombing-carving laps in the singles line. I wonder how accurate those apps are?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## shasty

Scalpelman said:


> 7000 calories! I always wondered how much I burn when I’m running bombing-carving laps in the singles line. I wonder how accurate those apps are?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Ya that's most likely inaccurate. Running a half marathon (~2 hours of straight running) is around 1200 calories, and doing a full hike for 12 hours with 7000-8000 ft elevation gain is like 2500-3000 calories.
I highly doubt sliding down the mountain, however much squats you're doing along the way, burns 7000 calories in a day.


----------



## Donutz

My Garmins give me calorie-burning estimates, and regardless of whether the _absolute_ values are correct, the _relative _values probably are pretty close. Cross-country (i.e. trail) riding comes up at about 800 calories an hour, while downhill biking is maybe half that. To my mind, that seems pretty reasonable. Snowboarding is more similar to downhill biking, so yeah, even if you're an absolute beast on the slopes (and have no wait lines), you're probably not burning much more than 500 calories an hour.


----------



## SEWiShred

7000 days are pretty rare, but they do happen. It actually feels like on smaller hills you burn calories faster. When I'm at Alpine Valley (400foot hill with high speed quads) I can get in a lot. I went for four hours yesterday, two of those hours were spent in the park putzing around on the low speed lift. Ended up a little over 4k calories for the whole day (I am not burning 7000 calories just from snowboarding). I'll go a long time, sometimes 6 or 8 hours by the end of the season.

I am a pretty aggressive, I usually get down to the bottom of the lift and am breathing heavily then get on the lift that takes like 3 minutes then do it again. Snowboarding in the midwest is a lot different than out West. I've been out West, I hate to say it but being on a small hill only 1000 feet above sea level makes it a lot easier to get a lot in. Last time I went out West I wasn't even close to riding like I do out here. The air is thick and your heart rate doesn't really get the chance to go back to resting as it would if you were on a lift for 7 or 8 minutes, which also means more calories burned.

The watches are probably also biased a bit because I do weigh 215lbs (I am pretty muscular) and the amount of calories it reports you burning depends on the activity and your weight. I am a bit of a maniac so that is probably why it's higher than average. The heavier you are the higher it calculates, so if you are like 150lbs you probably have zero chance of hitting 6k+. That is probably why marathon runners also come in at such low numbers compared to snowboarding, because marathon runners are pretty small and frail and built for endurance and there's no way they weigh that much. Some of them are probably half my weight, haha. 









Weight matters a lot, which is where it comes from. But my upper body is built from driving stand up jet skis and racing sit down jet skis all summer and my legs are huge from snowboarding two or three times a week. I do not like to brag but I am relatively strong.


----------



## Scalpelman

SEWiShred said:


> 7000 days are pretty rare, but they do happen. It actually feels like on smaller hills you burn calories faster. When I'm at Alpine Valley (400foot hill with high speed quads) I can get in a lot. I went for four hours yesterday, two of those hours were spent in the park putzing around on the low speed lift. Ended up a little over 4k calories for the whole day (I am not burning 7000 calories just from snowboarding). I'll go a long time, sometimes 6 or 8 hours by the end of the season.
> 
> I am a pretty aggressive, I usually get down to the bottom of the lift and am breathing heavily then get on the lift that takes like 3 minutes then do it again. Snowboarding in the midwest is a lot different than out West. I've been out West, I hate to say it but being on a small hill only 1000 feet above sea level makes it a lot easier to get a lot in. Last time I went out West I wasn't even close to riding like I do out here. The air is thick and your heart rate doesn't really get the chance to go back to resting as it would if you were on a lift for 7 or 8 minutes, which also means more calories burned.
> 
> The watches are probably also biased a bit because I do weigh 215lbs (I am pretty muscular) and the amount of calories it reports you burning depends on the activity and your weight. I am a bit of a maniac so that is probably why it's higher than average. The heavier you are the higher it calculates, so if you are like 150lbs you probably have zero chance of hitting 6k+. That is probably why marathon runners also come in at such low numbers compared to snowboarding, because marathon runners are pretty small and frail and built for endurance and there's no way they weigh that much. Some of them are probably half my weight, haha.
> 
> View attachment 161452
> 
> Weight matters a lot, which is where it comes from. But my upper body is built from driving stand up jet skis and racing sit down jet skis all summer and my legs are huge from snowboarding two or three times a week. I do not like to brag but I am relatively strong.


Those numbers seem reasonable but the hourly rates shouldn’t include uphill travel time. My point is that if you’re aggressive and tearing it up for 6 hours with no lines it’s a crazy fun and productive workout. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Etienne

BoardieK said:


> Just popped in to AlloSkis in Le Grand Bornand who are Nidecker, Jones and Korua dealers, he has a pair of these bindings in store and a glimpse here:
> Allo Skis - Grand Bornand Chinaillon
> 
> He also has a Nidecker Blade which I'm very tempted by


Excellent shop! Some of their staff are crazy good riders...

Envoyé de mon H8324 en utilisant Tapatalk


----------



## robotfood99

Close-up look at the mechanism. Makes me wonder how it will work with the Fusion straps. 

Might be a little hard to read the auto-translated closed caption but the Japanese reviewer is mighty impressed.


----------



## Jimi7

They look like they may fold flatter than Flows, which I'd count as a bonus. But can they match the Flows edge to edge performance?


----------



## RadDad801

Jimi7 said:


> They look like they may fold flatter than Flows, which I'd count as a bonus. But can they match the Flows edge to edge performance?


That is totally going to get in the way while skating. I wonder how they will hold up to being banged on lift line poles and being stepped on.


----------



## Rip154

RadDad801 said:


> That is totally going to get in the way while skating. I wonder how they will hold up to being banged on lift line poles and being stepped on.


this is why you bring nunchucks to the lift line


----------



## robotfood99

AFAIK the highbacks do fold forward so shouldn't interfere with skating.

Can be seen at 2:05.


----------



## shasty

Wow there are 3 clicks to be fully secured, I feel like that could be a possible cause of numerous user-errors, parts reliability, or paranoia. 
Even with Step-on's I sometimes am not sure if I got the full 2 clicks in if I step-on on the move.


----------



## Jimi7

RadDad801 said:


> That is totally going to get in the way while skating. I wonder how they will hold up to being banged on lift line poles and being stepped on.


My Flows have never really been an issue skating around.


----------



## Donutz

RadDad801 said:


> That is totally going to get in the way while skating. I wonder how they will hold up to being banged on lift line poles and being stepped on.


That's the big uncertainty for me. If lifting the highbacks to vertical "locks" the binding, then you'll have to unlatch it and push them down before you can step in. That goes instantly from better then Flows to not as good as Flows.


----------



## RadDad801

Donutz said:


> That's the big uncertainty for me. If lifting the highbacks to vertical "locks" the binding, then you'll have to unlatch it and push them down before you can step in. That goes instantly from better then Flows to not as good as Flows.


I think I would have to fold them up without locking them. Then at the top it would be easy to fold them back with your foot before stepping it.


----------



## t21

Jimi7 said:


> They look like they may fold flatter than Flows, which I'd count as a bonus. But can they match the Flows edge to edge performance?


in which way do you think it will fold flatter, forward or back? The flows can be laid almost flat upside down with highback open if you have a cargo box, but this new one has a heelcup behind the highback preventing it to lay back flat. I do think that nidecker tried to innovate their bindings close to Step-on but i applaud the effort.


----------



## DaveMcI

In steep terrain they would seem tricky. Only because I've seen struggles with flow bindings in exactly that
I take that back. U can just unstrap.


----------



## Jimi7

t21 said:


> in which way do you think it will fold flatter, forward or back? The flows can be laid almost flat upside down with highback open if you have a cargo box, but this new one has a heelcup behind the highback preventing it to lay back flat. I do think that nidecker tried to innovate their bindings close to Step-on but i applaud the effort.


I don't like getting the calmag and road grime all over the board and bindings, so I put mine in a bag and that goes on the roof rack, so can't lay my back to get them flat. I have to undo the strap and fold the highback into the binding then I buckle the strap over the highback. I should just invest in a cargo box, but I'm broke as joke, plus I already own snowboarding bags. 

I like the Nidecker concept in that you can use any boot and response should mimic traditional strap ins.


----------



## Jimi7

DaveMcI said:


> In steep terrain they would seem tricky. Only because I've seen struggles with flow bindings in exactly that
> I take that back. U can just unstrap.


With Flows and the Nideckers, you just face uphill, dig in your toeside edge and "click" in.


----------



## SEWiShred

RadDad801 said:


> That is totally going to get in the way while skating. I wonder how they will hold up to being banged on lift line poles and being stepped on.


Being stepped on is already a huge problem for Flows. When people go to get in, they stand on the high back, it eventually breaks them. My ski hill had such a problem with this and fixing them from people standing on the high back trying to get in, they just stopped carrying them. Best way to destroy a pair of Flow bindings is to stand on the high back when it's down. This Nidecker solution seems like it would make that problem a lot less bad.


----------



## t21

SEWiShred said:


> Being stepped on is already a huge problem for Flows. When people go to get in, they stand on the high back, it eventually breaks them. My ski hill had such a problem with this and fixing them from people standing on the high back trying to get in, they just stopped carrying them. Best way to destroy a pair of Flow bindings is to stand on the high back when it's down. This Nidecker solution seems like it would make that problem a lot less bad.


What i've learned from using flow was to put a electrical tape around the dial for the highback lean adjustment so it won't move when i use to skate to the lift line while the highback was down. Then afterwards, i just latch the highback up while skating to the lift line then unlatch prior to loading.


----------



## UncleHulka

Will be interesting to see if you don't have heel lift issues. That ankle strap is connected very low, and there is a roller on the heel cup, so how does it stop your heel from lifting? One of the best features of the Burton Step On is how locked in the heel is, giving good heel/toe response. Will be interesting to see if this is an issue or not.

Interesting concept though, and from one of the videos it appears you can really crank the ankle strap tight and still get in/out OK.


----------



## Jimi7

SEWiShred said:


> Being stepped on is already a huge problem for Flows. When people go to get in, they stand on the high back, it eventually breaks them. My ski hill had such a problem with this and fixing them from people standing on the high back trying to get in, they just stopped carrying them. Best way to destroy a pair of Flow bindings is to stand on the high back when it's down. This Nidecker solution seems like it would make that problem a lot less bad.


I've never seen somebody stand on the highback to get it. I know that's certainly not something I would ever do.


----------



## Scalpelman

Jimi7 said:


> I've never seen somebody stand on the highback to get it. I know that's certainly not something I would ever do.


Yeah me neither but I would imagine an unbalanced rookie would stand on it routinely. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## treehugger

robotfood99 said:


> Close-up look at the mechanism.


I like to keep it simple and just strapping in makes most sense for me. However this a great design for a step-in that keeps the support in the binding and out of the boot. Someone I knew at Burton gave me step-in boots and binding back in the early 90's? and I spent a season trying to like them thinking it was the future of binding design. Boots were so hard and uncomfortable due to all the reinforcement being in the boot instead of binding. Must be way better now but shutter just remembering how painful those boots were.

Wonder how much the mechanics of Nidecker limit or restrict flex, feel, and range of performance compared to range of whats available in standard bindings. Great design but why is this needed?


----------



## SEWiShred

Jimi7 said:


> I've never seen somebody stand on the highback to get it. I know that's certainly not something I would ever do.





Scalpelman said:


> Yeah me neither but I would imagine an unbalanced rookie would stand on it routinely.


Not so much actually standing on it, but stepping on it, putting weight too much on the high back when you are going to get in. And yes, it was mostly new riders who never had Flows before, probably never snowboarded much before. Wisconsin hills, the vertical drop might be 400 feet from the highest point, but there are almost always smaller blue and green runs that are like half of that. Noobs would see people with Flows running circles around them, run to the pro shop, then buy a pair. And then they'd break them after a few days out and be back in the pro shop.


----------



## dwdesign

An updated Nidecker setup video. They specifically address skating/lift access by folding the highback forward:


----------



## bseracka

dwdesign said:


> An updated Nidecker setup video. They specifically address skating/lift access by folding the highback forward:


That's a pretty elegant solution to a potential issue. I have to say while I don't see these bindings being for me, I do think they combine the best of Flows and Step Ons in a very user friendly way to address the biggest gripes with each


----------



## Jimi7

dwdesign said:


> An updated Nidecker setup video. They specifically address skating/lift access by folding the highback forward:


I like that. If it doesn't weight too much and the mechanism is reliable, then they have a winner. 

That said, I wonder if it (like the Flows) are a good product for newbies. I think they see these videos or watch somebody like me "click in" and take off and they don't realize there's some skill and experience involved.


----------



## kieloa

I like regular bindings, but compared to step ons, these look ok!


----------



## Donutz

I sent them an email volunteering to be an early adopter. I'll be surprised if they even answer.


----------



## Scalpelman

Donutz said:


> I sent them an email volunteering to be an early adopter. I'll be surprised if they even answer.


Put in a good word for me. [emoji23]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## PalmerFreak

I currently have a pair of 13/14 Flow NX2-AT’s on my board that I’ll be replacing at the end of this season or before next season so definitely interested In these. I can’t seem to find any info on how stiff these will be? I paired my NX2-AT’s with Flow Talon boots which is a pretty stiff setup. Any word on if they will offer these in just one model or if there will be other options?


----------



## dwdesign

One model. 8/10 Stiffness according to their marketing info-graphic.


----------



## t21

treehugger said:


> I like to keep it simple and just strapping in makes most sense for me. However this a great design for a step-in that keeps the support in the binding and out of the boot. Someone I knew at Burton gave me step-in boots and binding back in the early 90's? and I spent a season trying to like them thinking it was the future of binding design. Boots were so hard and uncomfortable due to all the reinforcement being in the boot instead of binding. Must be way better now but shutter just remembering how painful those boots were.
> 
> Wonder how much the mechanics of Nidecker limit or restrict flex, feel, and range of performance compared to range of whats available in standard bindings. Great design but why is this needed?


I believe this is Nideckers version of Step-on binding. No highback to pull up or down and a lever to quick release. I mentioned before is that it's advantage is a no specific boots required and for those who are freestyle riders that favors flex on their bindings. I wonder how heavy this bindings are?


----------



## robotfood99

Jimi7 said:


> I like that. If it doesn't weight too much and the mechanism is reliable, then they have a winner.
> 
> That said, I wonder if it (like the Flows) are a good product for newbies. I think they see these videos or watch somebody like me "click in" and take off and they don't realize there's some skill and experience involved.


Saw this in a post on a Korean forum. Weight comparo of Ride El Hefe, BM Solution, and Nidecker Supermatic. All sizes L, all weights in grams.









So, a little heavier than the high-end carbon binders, but a lot lighter than typical Flows.

As for ease-of-use for newbies, I think the learning curve will be with the hybrid straps more than the drop-in mechanism. From videos and tester feedback as well as experience with Flows with hybrid straps, the drop-in mechanism will be almost transparent but only if the straps are dialed. If not, sliding your toes in is going to be awkward and will require fiddling with. This is why I wonder if the Fusion strap might be the better call.


----------



## eelpout

t21 said:


> What i've learned from using flow was to put a electrical tape around the dial for the highback lean adjustment so it won't move when i use to skate to the lift line while the highback was down.


If you look at the back of the highback (or look at the setup video) they got rid of the infinitely adjustable screw and now have a more conventional stepped forward lean adjustment. Good and bad IMO.

So haven't seen these in fusion style at all (yet), maybe it just isn't practical for the design. I wonder if they are thinking these are more rental oriented, the red markers on the latches might indicate that. 

for those that whine about "why rear-entry?," the history of Flow's design I believe started with the one-piece strap for more power to the toe side and the hinged rear back and cable came out of that (think I heard that on Angry Snowboarder from Kevin H.). 

(it's worth reading the riding comments on that Korean site BTW)


----------



## Jimi7

eelpout said:


> If you look at the back of the highback (or look at the setup video) they got rid of the infinitely adjustable screw and now have a more conventional stepped forward lean adjustment. Good and bad IMO.
> 
> So haven't seen these in fusion style at all (yet), maybe it just isn't practical for the design. I wonder if they are thinking these are more rental oriented, the red markers on the latches might indicate that.
> 
> for those that whine about "why rear-entry?," the history of Flow's design I believe started with the one-piece strap for more power to the toe side and the hinged rear back and cable came out of that (think I heard that on Angry Snowboarder from Kevin H.).
> 
> (it's worth reading the riding comments on that Korean site BTW)


I've heard that too - the original idea wasn't to create ease of entry, but to improve performance. And if you owned the older Flows, they could definitely be a PITA to get into.


----------



## Manicmouse

Jimi7 said:


> I've heard that too - the original idea wasn't to create ease of entry, but to improve performance.


Source? I'm skeptical!


----------



## robotfood99

If you guys hear pricing info in your markets, please share. I heard $400s in Japan to $600s in Korea. Curious what the EU and Americas will ask for them.


----------



## eelpout

Manicmouse said:


> Source? I'm skeptical!


For sure I heard it on an Angry Snowboard review of a Flow binding. But I think I read it somewhere else too years ago.

What makes you skeptical about it? Makes sense to me they started with the one-piece strap idea. The early models were more locked down so I can see why the back entry came as a result of the design process.


----------



## eelpout

Don't think this has been posted yet. Some actual riding on the binding.


----------



## Jimi7

Manicmouse said:


> Source? I'm skeptical!








Flow Snowboarding


Flow Snowboarding




second.wiki













VIDEO: History of Flow Snowboarding - The-House


Sometimes the best innovation comes from the strangest places. Such is the case with the folks at Flow Snowboards. A couple of windsurfers looked at snowboarders and decided that we […]




www.the-house.com





Their true intent, who knows??? A binding that is more comfortable, easier to get into and performs better sounds a lot like marketing hype too.


----------



## Manicmouse

eelpout said:


> For sure I heard it on an Angry Snowboard review of a Flow binding. But I think I read it somewhere else too years ago.
> 
> What makes you skeptical about it? Makes sense to me they started with the one-piece strap idea. The early models were more locked down so I can see why the back entry came as a result of the design process.





Jimi7 said:


> Their true intent, who knows??? A binding that is more comfortable, easier to get into and performs better sounds a lot like marketing hype too.


I'm not making a dig at Flow bindings, I'm just skeptical that the main intent wasn't easy entry. Was curious to see if there was anything out there saying it was primarily for performance. Hard to separate truth from the hype!

My first bindings post-rentals were Flows back in about 2005. Then I went to metal Flow Teams. Enjoyed them a lot.


----------



## eelpout

here is a Japanese shopping site that has the Supermatics already listed; north of $450 USD (ouch), which is interesting considering it isn't suppose to be released to the fall (at least in the US/Euro market). A bunch more close up shots of the binding as well.

*Edit:* now looking again at the site, if you purchase you are reserving one starting in October.


----------



## lbs123

TBH, I was a bit sceptical about these, but how he folds the highback for skating here at 2:35 and then quickly pushes it back with foot and steps in, is quite nice


----------



## Donutz

So far, they seem to be addressing all my concerns.


----------



## Jimi7

Donutz said:


> So far, they seem to be addressing all my concerns.


Looks like they put some serious thought into these bindings.


----------



## eelpout

lbs123 said:


> TBH, I was a bit sceptical about these, but how he folds the highback for skating here at 2:35 and then quickly pushes it back with foot and steps in, is quite nice





Jimi7 said:


> Looks like they put some serious thought into these bindings.


I'm still wondering how they'll do with some lifts that have that extended bar, these Supermatic highbacks stick out quite a bit. This season I've had a couple lift incidents with Flows and the latch coming undone on something (which is new for me, it's something about the TM's). But the Supermatics work differently of course.

The thing I'd have to get over is these likely don't ride like Flows, but regular Nidecker bindings.


----------



## robotfood99

I had a chance to check it out in person, but could not ride due to my arm injury. The build is solid and the parts look durable. A tester friend agreed with me that if the toe cap was not properly set up, it led to a loose toe feeling that needed to be cranked down manually. Doing so for a few runs eventually resulted in getting the fit dialed. Considering it was his first time with Nidecker's hybrid straps, the user experience was pretty easy. 

Oh, the highback doesn't rotate. Not sure if that was mentioned before. That would be my only nit-pick. 

Size-wise, my size 8 Ride Tridents seemed to drop-in and lock into the L size with a little room to spare, so I will try to test fit a M before deciding on size.

As for opting for the Hybrid over the Fusion strap, I think Nideckr must have been trying to look as close to regular strap bindings as possible with this first introduction. After a successful launch I don't see why they wouldn't offer the Fusion as an option, perhaps as the more responsive model?


----------



## Jimi7

robotfood99 said:


> I had a chance to check it out in person, but could not ride due to my arm injury. The build is solid and the parts look durable. A tester friend agreed with me that if the toe cap was not properly set up, it led to a loose toe feeling that needed to be cranked down manually. Doing so for a few runs eventually resulted in getting the fit dialed. Considering it was his first time with Nidecker's hybrid straps, the user experience was pretty easy.
> 
> Oh, the highback doesn't rotate. Not sure if that was mentioned before. That would be my only nit-pick.
> 
> Size-wise, my size 8 Ride Tridents seemed to drop-in and lock into the L size with a little room to spare, so I will try to test fit a M before deciding on size.
> 
> As for opting for the Hybrid over the Fusion strap, I think Nideckr must have been trying to look as close to regular strap bindings as possible with this first introduction. After a successful launch I don't see why they wouldn't offer the Fusion as an option, perhaps as the more responsive model?


Not sure if the Fusion strap is the right choice for these. With the Flows the cable makes up for a slightly loose toe strap. Nevertheless, it looks like Nidecker has put some thought and testing into these.


----------



## eelpout

robotfood99 said:


> Oh, the highback doesn't rotate. Not sure if that was mentioned before. That would be my only nit-pick.


The regular Nidecker's can rotate some on the middle 2 of the 4 holes on either side on the "prongs" of the highback. It's kind of hard to tell if those are all available on this guy.


----------



## robotfood99

Jimi7 said:


> Not sure if the Fusion strap is the right choice for these. With the Flows the cable makes up for a slightly loose toe strap. Nevertheless, it looks like Nidecker has put some thought and testing into these.


We shall see. I was able to confirm there won't be a fusion version in the first year.


----------



## robotfood99

eelpout said:


> The regular Nidecker's can rotate some on the middle 2 of the 4 holes on either side on the "prongs" of the highback. It's kind of hard to tell if those are all available on this guy.


The highback is connected directly to the heel cup by hinges and a roller. Have a look at the pic. Unless the whole heel cup part of the binding rotates (it doesn't), there isn't a way for the highback to rotate on its own.


----------



## robotfood99

robotfood99 said:


> Size-wise, my size 8 Ride Tridents seemed to drop-in and lock into the L size with a little room to spare, so I will try to test fit a M before deciding on size.


As if on cue the Japanese shop uploaded a size recommendation for the Supermatic, where he measured the footbed dimensions and compared them to those of existing Flows. Then he places multiple boots (brands, sizes) in the Supermatic (only L available) and the M and L Flows. He then concludes as follows (11:54 into the video):
Boot shell measurement ≥ 30cm : size L
Boot shell measurement 27 ~ 30 cm : size M


----------



## eelpout

robotfood99 said:


> The highback is connected directly to the heel cup by hinges and a roller. Have a look at the pic. Unless the whole heel cup part of the binding rotates (it doesn't), there isn't a way for the highback to rotate on its own.


I thought there might have been a second bolt hole on the legs of the highback for minimal rotation, but judging by that pic there wouldn't be. which maybe isn't that surprising. Flow doesn't have rotation either (the ModBack just adjusts up and down as I remember).


----------



## Nivek

Jimi7 said:


> I've heard that too - the original idea wasn't to create ease of entry, but to improve performance. And if you owned the older Flows, they could definitely be a PITA to get into.





Manicmouse said:


> Source? I'm skeptical!


I'll back this up. 
Flow was introduced in '96. Back then toe caps were not a thing so the gap between the ankle strap and toe strap was small. The Flow guys saw that and figured you could get a better fitting more comfortable strap if you just had one strap from toes to ankle distributing the pressure over more strap. But, at that point it made it harder to get in and out, so they looked for an alternative entry option, hence the folding highback. Then, adding the cable from the top of the highback to the frame provides a more efficient energy path compared to standard heelcup bindings. So faster heelsides and with more strap on the boot you have more material to drive through to get toeside. Propertly set up, there are very few bindings, all of which need carbon, that truly react as quick as Flow's can.

The convenience factor was secondary, better fit was the priority.


----------



## Manicmouse

Nivek said:


> I'll back this up.
> Flow was introduced in '96. Back then toe caps were not a thing so the gap between the ankle strap and toe strap was small. The Flow guys saw that and figured you could get a better fitting more comfortable strap if you just had one strap from toes to ankle distributing the pressure over more strap. But, at that point it made it harder to get in and out, so they looked for an alternative entry option, hence the folding highback. Then, adding the cable from the top of the highback to the frame provides a more efficient energy path compared to standard heelcup bindings. So faster heelsides and with more strap on the boot you have more material to drive through to get toeside. Propertly set up, there are very few bindings, all of which need carbon, that truly react as quick as Flow's can.
> 
> The convenience factor was secondary, better fit was the priority.


Thanks for the insight. Pretty quickly I imagine people saw it primarily as the easy to use option and it was marketed strongly to that.

Now that the strap is sorted I'm keen to give them another go.


----------



## Jimi7

Manicmouse said:


> Thanks for the insight. Pretty quickly I imagine people saw it primarily as the easy to use option and it was marketed strongly to that.
> 
> Now that the strap is sorted I'm keen to give them another go.


Everybody who has ever taken notice of my Flows did so because of quick/easy entry. I don't think anybody has ever asked me about performance.


----------



## Nivek

The convenience appeal was too stong for them for a long time. The MSeries around Scotty Lago early time with the brand was when performance started to become a bigger concern. I still have some M9-SE's. Then they got genuinely competive with the rest of the industry with the introduction of the locking standard ratchets and NASTY. The last couple of years when I was still working the occasional demo for Flow (before Nidecker) I would usually just tell people to strap into them and ignore the highback so they could just feel the binding and not think about the in/out aspect. It was very often high praise in the feedback. And I've known some team guys to just use them as bindings, and genuinely like them as just bindings. I don't think Sarka is still locked into using Flow being on Nidecker, but she still is. They are genuinely hard to get used to NOT using once you do. I just got a new set of NX2 TM's and and psyched to have them back in my rotation. They're currently on my Superposition since it's a high performance carver/freeride/all mountain deck. And I may revive either my Five-SE's or M9-SE's for my Relic.


----------



## SEWiShred

Nivek said:


> The convenience appeal was too stong for them for a long time. The MSeries around Scotty Lago early time with the brand was when performance started to become a bigger concern. I still have some M9-SE's. Then they got genuinely competive with the rest of the industry with the introduction of the locking standard ratchets and NASTY. The last couple of years when I was still working the occasional demo for Flow (before Nidecker) I would usually just tell people to strap into them and ignore the highback so they could just feel the binding and not think about the in/out aspect. It was very often high praise in the feedback. And I've known some team guys to just use them as bindings, and genuinely like them as just bindings. I don't think Sarka is still locked into using Flow being on Nidecker, but she still is. They are genuinely hard to get used to NOT using once you do. I just got a new set of NX2 TM's and and psyched to have them back in my rotation. They're currently on my Superposition since it's a high performance carver/freeride/all mountain deck. And I may revive either my Five-SE's or M9-SE's for my Relic.


My NX2-GTs are insane response. I demoed a Donek Sabre SRT, big wide turning boardercross board, and I was cutting fast tight turns like skiers no problem on it. So much so when I compared Free Thinker and Custom X boards with Cartels and Malavitas to my Flow Quantum with NX2s and Hot Knife with NX2-GTs I thought there was something wrong with the burton boards. The demo guys were telling me they were aggressive and to pay attention and I was bored really easy, just really lethargic compared to what I'm used to. But I think most people aren't looking for that so I never make a big deal out of it. It's probably why I like stiff true twin camber (or maybe CRC) boards so much, they just rip with really responsive bindings.


----------



## kimchijajonshim

I see myself owning a set of these eventually. The only thing that'd make me little hesitant is I generally don't trust the first generation of new tech. Too many bugs to be worked through. Step On has his, most year one model overhauls (computers, cars, etc.) have this. Maybe year two or three.

I see few points of appeal to this system:

Convenience and saved time, especially on small hills / lifts. I ride decent sized Tahoe mountains with 2-3k feet (600-900 meters) of vert. I only take 15-25 runs a day, so at 10 seconds to strap in, I save around 4 minutes. BUT the progression park lift at Palisades only services like 100 ft vert (~30 m). On that lift I could easily make 50-60 laps. At that point, we're talking about enough time savings that I could squeeze in a few more laps, plus generally maintaining better flow while lapping.
Ratchet consistency. I don't always hit the right point on my ratchets. Occasionally I have a few extra clicks left because I didn't push my foot all the way into the heelcup. Usually I do a quick ollie off the top, make my my ratchets are tight, and go, but I have forgotten... I've gotten to the bottom of some higher-consequence terrain, wondered why I felt a little off, and realized I had 3-4 more clicks left in my rear foot.
Both of these also apply to Step Ons, but Burtons don't fit my feel well enough.



eelpout said:


> here is a Japanese shopping site that has the Supermatics already listed; north of $450 USD (ouch)


That price suggests about $350-380 USD MSRP. Japanese snowboard hardgoods is usually about 20-30% more expensive than US equivalents.



Scalpelman said:


> 7000 calories! I always wondered how much I burn when I’m running bombing-carving laps in the singles line. I wonder how accurate those apps are?


Keep in mind this is determined by your weight and body composition. I'm about 6' (182 cm), 215 lbs (~98 kg) and around 19% body fat... according to the random BF calculator I used, on the borderline between "average" and "fitness" which feels about right.

According to my Fitbit (which tracks movement + heartrate), on days I snowboard about 20-25k vert (bombing, carving, sidehits, park), I'll burn around 5000 calories. I think the most I've ever done on a day on lifts was around 5500. I've beaten that splitboarding, which is obviously more energy intensive.


----------



## CarvingOldGuy

Snowboarding since '03, but with a 9 season hiatus until this season. Limited experience with bindings. Have only used Burton P1s, tried and hated Burton's early '00s step-in. Using the clunky, junky K2 Cinch on my local area board. Got lazy when it came to straps at the local ski hill. Emphasis on Hill. Just adapted to the K2s, but now the strap pads are falling apart. Was thinking replacing the K2s with the Niedeckers when they become available. But little leery regarding to the ratchet mechanism in terms of durability and functioning in all conditions. Rather not be an early adopter of a new concept. Flow NX2-TM Fusion went on sale. Giving them a try and see if I like how the fusion style strap feels. Early adopter feedback on the Niedecker will be appreciated.


----------



## eelpout

CarvingOldGuy said:


> ...leery regarding to the ratchet mechanism in terms of durability and functioning in all conditions.


if these are standard Flow LSR's, and they appear to be, you may be correct to wonder about their use long term. I'm currently using 21/22 Flow NX2-TM's (note, these are pre-production demos) and like all Flow's with LSR's I've had, they often don't stay latched flat and can pop-up a bit. This doesn't _unlatch_ them, but it gets them one step closer to doing so. But with the Supermatics, in theory, one won't be messing with them _too much (_like Flows) and they should last.


----------



## Jimi7

eelpout said:


> if these are standard Flow LSR's, and they appear to be, you may be correct to wonder about their use long term. I'm currently using 21/22 Flow NX2-TM's (note, these are pre-production demos) and like all Flow's with LSR's I've had, they often don't stay latched flat and can pop-up a bit. This doesn't _unlatch_ them, but it gets them one step closer to doing so. But with the Supermatics, in theory, one won't be messing with them _too much (_like Flows) and they should last.


I'm not a big fan of the LSR's. I don't really see the need to lock the ratchet. I haven't had an LSR fail, but they aren't nearly as smooth as Burton ratchets.


----------



## JCH

NT.Thunder said:


> God we're all getting lazy or I'm getting old and grumpier, sometimes it's nice to just sit and take in the view


Some people are harder riders than others, even with the years gone by...


----------



## robotfood99

Malcolm Moore's review.


----------



## RadDad801

Depending on price I am thinking I am going to pick some of these up next year.


----------



## oButto

Available for preorder at outdoorxl. Interested in buying but price is a bit steep after international shipping


----------



## Bartonbrett

At least we have an idea about pricing. I was hoping under $400. I'll wait for US preorders before I reserve some, but I'm definitely in for me and my stepson. These will make short runs with the kids much more enjoyable.


----------



## PalmerFreak

Great review and I was hoping that they were gonna be stiff but it looks like I may need to wait for them to add to the line in future years.


----------



## chaose

robotfood99 said:


> If you guys hear pricing info in your markets, please share. I heard $400s in Japan to $600s in Korea. Curious what the EU and Americas will ask for them.


$375 in EU it looks like. Probably similar in NA.


----------



## jsil

If I didn't love my step ons, I would definitely try these. A buddy who's a Nidecker rep demoed them last year and said they were great.


----------



## d3tro

The binding system look great. The only thing that caught my eye is the only chromed nut that you can see when the foot is out.

Envoyé de mon A100 en utilisant Tapatalk


----------



## unsuspected

kimchijajonshim said:


> I see myself owning a set of these eventually. The only thing that'd make me little hesitant is I generally don't trust the first generation of new tech. Too many bugs to be worked through. Step On has his, most year one model overhauls (computers, cars, etc.) have this. Maybe year two or three.
> 
> I see few points of appeal to this system:
> 
> Convenience and saved time, especially on small hills / lifts. I ride decent sized Tahoe mountains with 2-3k feet (600-900 meters) of vert. I only take 15-25 runs a day, so at 10 seconds to strap in, I save around 4 minutes. BUT the progression park lift at Palisades only services like 100 ft vert (~30 m). On that lift I could easily make 50-60 laps. At that point, we're talking about enough time savings that I could squeeze in a few more laps, plus generally maintaining better flow while lapping.
> Ratchet consistency. I don't always hit the right point on my ratchets. Occasionally I have a few extra clicks left because I didn't push my foot all the way into the heelcup. Usually I do a quick ollie off the top, make my my ratchets are tight, and go, but I have forgotten... I've gotten to the bottom of some higher-consequence terrain, wondered why I felt a little off, and realized I had 3-4 more clicks left in my rear foot.
> Both of these also apply to Step Ons, but Burtons don't fit my feel well enough.
> 
> 
> That price suggests about $350-380 USD MSRP. Japanese snowboard hardgoods is usually about 20-30% more expensive than US equivalents.
> 
> 
> Keep in mind this is determined by your weight and body composition. I'm about 6' (182 cm), 215 lbs (~98 kg) and around 19% body fat... according to the random BF calculator I used, on the borderline between "average" and "fitness" which feels about right.
> 
> According to my Fitbit (which tracks movement + heartrate), on days I snowboard about 20-25k vert (bombing, carving, sidehits, park), I'll burn around 5000 calories. I think the most I've ever done on a day on lifts was around 5500. I've beaten that splitboarding, which is obviously more energy intensive.


So how long do you think they will last Wreck-it Kimchi?


----------



## jsil

unsuspected said:


> So how long do you think they will last Wreck-it Kimchi?





kimchijajonshim said:


> Both of these also apply to Step Ons, but Burtons don't fit my feel well enough.


Do DC or Nitro boots fit your feet? Nitro is new for this year and the DC Judges, while IMO are not as nice as Ions, could still a good option.

Part of the reason I love the Step On system so much is because of how the cleat attaches high up your heel. The heel to toe transmission is so damn fast.


----------



## WigMar

jsil said:


> Part of the reason I love the Step On system so much is because of how the cleat attaches high up your heel. The heel to toe transmission is so damn fast.


That's one of the big reasons I'm against the idea of Step-Ons. As a skater, I really don't want my heels locked down like that. I think the opposite idea is Solomon's ShadowFit, which I happen to enjoy. With traditional bindings, you can dial in the level of heel lock feeling with straps, but thankfully for me it's never a direct link. I'm glad it's an option for people who are after that feel though. Options are a beautiful thing.


----------



## jsil

You still have some movement and give in Step Ons. If you watch the design videos on YouTube you can see that they iterated 100s of designs and found that when you had no movement, they felt "bad." They engineered them to have some movement much like a standard binding. If you haven't tried them, I'd do a demo one day just as a baseline. Some background on my experience; I never intended to try them, but I had a friend who needed new boots, was an intermediate rider (who traveled to ride) and was super slow strapping in. It drove me nuts to ride with him, so I suggested he try to demo a pair of step ons and I'd do it too in solidarity. This was totally selfish, I didn't want to wait on his slow ass. I'll tell you what, it only took a run or two for me to realize that I was going to switch to the system. It was just that good (for me). I've now been on it for three seasons (Burton Ion Step On and a pair of each Standard/Genesis/X bindings, and haven't had a single failure. I had more issues with standard bindings (screws backing out, straps breaking, etc.).

The best way that I can describe the "fast" transmission is that rather than pushing the top of your boot into the binding strap to angulate, you "pull" from the heel. It's not so much that you're locked down, but that you pull rather than push. Hard to understand until you've felt it. It's almost like an upstroke on a bike w/clips vs with flats. Not only that, but every time to step on they are perfect. Never need to stop after a turn or two and ratchet down a bit. I've ridden the old step in systems and hated everyone of them. These just "clicked" no pun intended. Just adds to my flow state stoke.

Their are only two groups of people I don't recommend step ons for these days and that's the dedicated park rat or if the boot options dont work for your foot. As for the park rat, some guys I know like to have their bindings so loose that they can almost roll their feet in them, you just can't do that in step ons. Well I have written like this before to try it out and I do see the benefit if you're tweaking everything and doing lots of jibbing, I absolutely hated it around the rest of the mountain.

Also, if you haven't tried a snowskate yet, I'd definitely go for it. I never was much of a street skater (I dabbled, most but mostly did street rollerblading), but I did ride downhill a good bit in my younger days (mostly garages). I own three Hovland snow skates now and they are blast if you're a skater and want some additional challenge or you're riding with beginners. The best model is the Buckshot for all mountain, but I also have a Ram which is more like a directional twin. The smaller sizes than that are too squirrelly imo unless you're doing small park features only.


----------



## Yeahti87

I rode the Supermatics last season. They have two big flaws - one is the huge heelcup that makes you bootout on the heelside carves way earlier and the second is the weight (if someone cares about fs). I did like that 3-part strap - a super locked-in feel when I strapped traditionally. Using the quick entry option there must be some slight clearance and I’m not a fan of this.

The conditions were like a mix of slush/minus temperatures and the snow built up in the mechanism and froze there so it took a minute to clean it and unblock it.

Overall this is a great option for occassional riders but isn’t a game changer for most yet.


----------



## jsil

Yeahti87 said:


> I rode the Supermatics last season. They have two big flaws - one is the huge heelcup that makes you bootout on the heelside carves way earlier and the second is the weight (if someone cares about fs). I did like that 3-part strap - a super locked-in feel when I strapped traditionally. Using the quick entry option there must be some slight clearance and I’m not a fan of this.
> 
> The conditions were like a mix of slush/minus temperatures and the snow built up in the mechanism and froze there so it took a minute to clean it and unblock it.
> 
> Overall these is a great option for occassional riders but isn’t a game changer for most yet.


Thanks for the thoughts. The boot out would be horrible.

Either way, I LOVE my Burton Ions with step ons.


----------



## Revvi

Just thought it’s interesting how quick this system can be. (This guys getting in and out 100times)

Hopefully by version 2.0 it’s less bulky.


----------



## robotfood99




----------



## robotfood99

Yeahti87 said:


> I rode the Supermatics last season. They have two big flaws - one is the huge heelcup that makes you bootout on the heelside carves way earlier and the second is the weight (if someone cares about fs). I did like that 3-part strap - a super locked-in feel when I strapped traditionally. Using the quick entry option there must be some slight clearance and I’m not a fan of this.
> 
> The conditions were like a mix of slush/minus temperatures and the snow built up in the mechanism and froze there so it took a minute to clean it and unblock it.
> 
> Overall this is a great option for occassional riders but isn’t a game changer for most yet.


I did, too. With my arm in a sling so wasn't too aggressive but I got the feel for the mechanism. For someone in between Flow/Nidecker's binding sizes (8 sits awkwardly in between M and L) the straps weren't the best, but for other sizes, they probably work just fine. 

I found who this product is perfect for - someone that always holds something in their hands, like a selfie stick or a gimbal camera. A local filmer I know put down orders for two of these already and considering more. I'm actually having to restrain him a little, telling him these things have a tendency to improve a lot year over year.


----------



## clsmooth

I subscribe to Nidecker's email list and just got an email where it looks like they're "officially" for sale. Looks like MSRP is $499 CAD. Honestly I was expecting close to the $800 range, or at least $600. So, not bad?

My entire setup's Flow, but my NXT-AT bindings will be 10 years old this season, so I'm following these bindings with a lot of curiosity.


----------



## jsil

clsmooth said:


> I subscribe to Nidecker's email list and just got an email where it looks like they're "officially" for sale. Looks like MSRP is $499 CAD. Honestly I was expecting close to the $800 range, or at least $600. So, not bad?
> 
> My entire setup's Flow, but my NXT-AT bindings will be 10 years old this season, so I'm following these bindings with a lot of curiosity.


They have always said $399.99 USD MSRP. You can find preorders on sites. I don't know why you would think they would be $800.... No one would buy bindings for $800.


----------



## 16gkid

Where are you guys finding pre order for this? I think I convinced myself that I need these for my tiny midwest hills.


----------



## jsil

16gkid said:


> Where are you guys finding pre order for this? I think I convinced myself that I need these for my tiny midwest hills.


Some Europe/UK sites. The house had it earlier but appears he sold out. I would email Nidecker and ask.

As a step on Rider, I highly recommend them too (if DC, nitro or Burton foots fit your foot).


----------



## 16gkid

jsil said:


> Some Europe/UK sites. The house had it earlier but appears he sold out. I would email Nidecker and ask.
> 
> As a step on Rider, I highly recommend them too (if DC, nitro or Burton foots fit your foot).


had step ons, my pinky toe was on fire the whole time, im over it, love my vans boot too much to move on, pre order is sold out on evo and the house


----------



## jsil

16gkid said:


> had step ons, my pinky toe was on fire the whole time, im over it, love my vans boot too much to move on, pre order is sold out on evo and the house


Yeah, if the boot options dont work for you the system won't work for you. I hope you had a custom insole in there at least! I use Ions and they work great for me. I've totally converted over and only kept a pair of non-step on boots for split boarding and a single pair of union stratas for friends. 

They are probably limited quantity, maybe in the US too. I'd email or call Nidecker directly. I've ordered lots of stuff from Europe, and with the exchange rate it may not be much more to get them internationally.


----------



## eelpout

jsil said:


> Some Europe/UK sites. The house had it earlier but appears he sold out. I would email Nidecker and ask.


I almost put in an order at evo.com back a couple months ago, but didn't. Nidecker implies they aren't out yet on their site and has an email notification submittal form for availability. I imagine they'll be trickling out in the smaller shops over the next month or so. I really think a "carbon" version of these (i.e. Flow NX2-CX/Kaon-CX tech) might be ideal in a season or two.

I hadn't considered bootout for the largish Supermatic heel cup (did Malcom Moore ever mention it in his reviews?) . that's one area were Flows are superior (if one cares) as there is no heel cup.


----------



## jsil

eelpout said:


> I hadn't considered bootout for the largish Supermatic heel cup (did Malcom Moore ever mention it in his reviews?) .


I didn't see any talk about boot out except on this forum. That could definitely be a big deal for some boot sizes on some boards (or everyone?!).


----------



## BurtonAvenger

From what I heard it's a mid October to early November drop for them.


----------



## jsil

BurtonAvenger said:


> From what I heard it's a mid October to early November drop for them.


Any angry thoughts on them?


----------



## SLOPES & PEAKS

jsil said:


> Any angry thoughts on them?


He has a review coming out tomorrow (Sept 1)





"


----------



## jsil

SLOPES & PEAKS said:


> He has a review coming out tomorrow (Sept 1)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "


Oh nice, timely review. Thanks.


----------



## t21

jsil said:


> Yeah, if the boot options dont work for you the system won't work for you. I hope you had a custom insole in there at least! I use Ions and they work great for me. I've totally converted over and only kept a pair of non-step on boots for split boarding and a single pair of union stratas for friends.
> 
> They are probably limited quantity, maybe in the US too. I'd email or call Nidecker directly. I've ordered lots of stuff from Europe, and with the exchange rate it may not be much more to get them internationally.


I've also fully converted to step-on. I also luck out and found a barely used Medium size at Geartrade, now i have three bindings except for splitboarding.


----------



## jsil

t21 said:


> I've also fully converted to step-on. I also luck out and found a barely used Medium size at Geartrade, now i have three bindings except for splitboarding.


Nice score. I have two pairs of Genesis bindings and one pair of X bindings. Honestly all three of the bindings are great and the differences are not insane between them; just a step up in stiffness from stiff (Genesis), to stiffer (standard) to stiffest (X). I do find the Genesis a tad bit more comfortable, bit the system really wouldn't work without a fairly stiff binding.

I had an old style toe hook standard that I sold to a friend with a board because he loved them so much.

If you haven't ridden the new toe clips I highly recommend them. I find them even easier to get in and out of and no more clicking noise.

I would love to pick up one more pair of the Japanese flux step on binding release of I can get them for non-crazy prices, otherwise whatever I can get with the new toe hooks under MSRP.


----------



## t21

jsil said:


> Nice score. I have two pairs of Genesis bindings and one pair of X bindings. Honestly all three of the bindings are great and the differences are not insane between them; just a step up in stiffness from stiff (Genesis), to stiffer (standard) to stiffest (X). I do find the Genesis a tad bit more comfortable, bit the system really wouldn't work without a fairly stiff binding.
> 
> I had an old style toe hook standard that I sold to a friend with a board because he loved them so much.
> 
> If you haven't ridden the new toe clips I highly recommend them. I find them even easier to get in and out of and no more clicking noise.
> 
> I would love to pick up one more pair of the Japanese flux step on binding release of I can get them for non-crazy prices, otherwise whatever I can get with the new toe hooks under MSRP.


I did played around of buying the new ones but i've seen on reviews on youtube that it breaks easily. I'm sure not all of it but it does concern me, the clicking noise does not bother me anymore. Have you tried riding it without the highbacks?


----------



## jsil

The new ones are better than the old ones. I've seen some people say they broke, but I (and friends) have had no issues on around 150 riding days last season (between the three of us). Maybe when they are really cold?

Either way, they have a lifetime warranty so unless it's your only pair, if it breaks, oh well.


----------



## adam_z

I picked up a few sets of these for this season. One set will go to a buddy. I noticed that nearing the end of many days last season, the getting up and down from strapping in was really wearing on me. And many of the areas after hopping off the lift get crowded, or don’t have a good spot to easily strap in. I’m hoping these make things a bit easier.


----------



## eelpout

adam_z said:


> I picked up a few sets of these for this season. One set will go to a buddy. I noticed that nearing the end of many days last season, the getting up and down from strapping in was really wearing on me. And many of the areas after hopping off the lift get crowded, or don’t have a good spot to easily strap in. I’m hoping these make things a bit easier.


Cool. where'd you get them? they are very hard to find unless one pre-ordered. I get notifications occasionally from Nidecker that they are in stock, go to check and they are gone already.


----------



## adam_z

eelpout said:


> Cool. where'd you get them? they are very hard to find unless one pre-ordered. I get notifications occasionally from Nidecker that they are in stock, go to check and they are gone already.


A local shop received 10 pairs, and reached out to me when they showed up. I paid and picked them up the same day. They said that's was all they'd get this year. From what I understand, all dealers will be extremely limited. And once the first batch drops, no more will be released this year. At least that's what they told me.


----------



## eelpout

FYI. Amazon (US) is starting to get a handful of these in via various resellers, but they disappear quickly. (and yes, I snagged one)


----------



## robotfood99

Here's TGR's take. 






He again resorts to a format that he isn't very good at - multiple comparos at the same time - and struggles to keep the details straight, wandering all over the place instead of focusing on the center of this review. I think he is trying to say they're okay but could have more dampening and less weight.


----------



## Eric L

jsil said:


> Nice score. I have two pairs of Genesis bindings and one pair of X bindings. Honestly all three of the bindings are great and the differences are not insane between them; just a step up in stiffness from stiff (Genesis), to stiffer (standard) to stiffest (X). I do find the Genesis a tad bit more comfortable, bit the system really wouldn't work without a fairly stiff binding.
> 
> I had an old style toe hook standard that I sold to a friend with a board because he loved them so much.
> 
> If you haven't ridden the new toe clips I highly recommend them. I find them even easier to get in and out of and no more clicking noise.
> 
> I would love to pick up one more pair of the Japanese flux step on binding release of I can get them for non-crazy prices, otherwise whatever I can get with the new toe hooks under MSRP.


You think the Genesis is softer than the standard ?


----------



## Bartonbrett

Received the pair I ordered for my son yesterday. Mounted them to his new Niche Pyle, and I'm impressed with how well they work. I thought there might be some boot hang up but you can get in and out very fast and easily. I even tightened the straps down way too much and it was still easy to get in and out. When you are in they feel like normal bindings and the only down side I see to them right now is the weight.

May have to pick up another pair for myself for when I'm riding with my younger kids and doing short runs.


----------



## 16gkid

said fuck it and just ordered a set in mediums from snowcountry.eu, hopefully shipping to the US works out, also was only charged 379 dollars shipped? looks like theyre 399 on evo.com, I guess we will see


----------



## Mountain Surfer

Bought some of these in size L. It says max boot size 11.5 US, and I'm 12, so thought I'd try and see if they managed to fit. They didn't as the toe strap wouldn't go on the tip of the boot, so had to return them. Unfortunately can't see size XL anywhere here in the UK, which is a shame. I'm coming to Canada for a month in Dec/Jan and have been looking on google shopping via canadian proxy, but can't seem to see any either. I guess I'll have to wait for another year.

Edit: don't suppose anyone can see any for sale in Canada on sites I may have missed?


----------



## Donutz

So far I haven't been able to find any in Canada.


----------



## StealthDJ

From what I've read, they're only available in M and L to start with. It sounded like it might even be next year before XL became available (maybe waiting to see what sales are like...?)

Mine are 'out for delivery' from AbsoluteSnow. Getting twitchy listening for the doorbell...



Mountain Surfer said:


> Bought some of these in size L. It says max boot size 11.5 US, and I'm 12, so thought I'd try and see if they managed to fit. They didn't as the toe strap wouldn't go on the tip of the boot, so had to return them. Unfortunately can't see size XL anywhere here in the UK, which is a shame. I'm coming to Canada for a month in Dec/Jan and have been looking on google shopping via canadian proxy, but can't seem to see any either. I guess I'll have to wait for another year.
> 
> Edit: don't suppose anyone can see any for sale in Canada on sites I may have missed?


----------



## adam_z

Mountain Surfer said:


> Bought some of these in size L. It says max boot size 11.5 US, and I'm 12, so thought I'd try and see if they managed to fit. They didn't as the toe strap wouldn't go on the tip of the boot, so had to return them. Unfortunately can't see size XL anywhere here in the UK, which is a shame. I'm coming to Canada for a month in Dec/Jan and have been looking on google shopping via canadian proxy, but can't seem to see any either. I guess I'll have to wait for another year.
> 
> Edit: don't suppose anyone can see any for sale in Canada on sites I may have missed?


I finally tried a set of mine w/ my boots over the weekend (all inside to test fit everything), and I can confirm that they're a tight fit with a 11 boot. However, the toe strap has lots of room. It's diagonal support strap that's too limited on space. Odd that you couldn't get the boot strap to work. I have a bunch of extra strap I could let out on my toe strap - so much so that I'm sure I could fit a much larger size. Did you let out both sides of the toe strap?


----------



## Mountain Surfer

The problem I had was that the toe strap doesn’t seem to swivel forwards so that it can be fastened on the tip/toes of my boot, it seems only to angle enough that it fastens ABOVE my toes/on top of the boot. Maybe I didn’t do it properly so I’ll have to try again when I get back from holiday. It seemed as though there’s a part of the binding that stops it from swivelling more horizontally forwards? Will have to check again


----------



## StealthDJ

Possibly the tension on the intermediate strap is wrong?

The way I set mine up was to lock everything in place, then strap in normally, making sure the intermediate strap was left slightly loose. Also, not checked the supermatics, but the flow straps, if you look carefully, have three notches in the baseplate that the pin in the front ladders can locate into - might be worth checking that too?



Mountain Surfer said:


> The problem I had was that the toe strap doesn’t seem to swivel forwards so that it can be fastened on the tip/toes of my boot, it seems only to angle enough that it fastens ABOVE my toes/on top of the boot. Maybe I didn’t do it properly so I’ll have to try again when I get back from holiday. It seemed as though there’s a part of the binding that stops it from swivelling more horizontally forwards? Will have to check again


----------



## Mountain Surfer

StealthDJ said:


> Possibly the tension on the intermediate strap is wrong?
> 
> The way I set mine up was to lock everything in place, then strap in normally, making sure the intermediate strap was left slightly loose. Also, not checked the supermatics, but the flow straps, if you look carefully, have three notches in the baseplate that the pin in the front ladders can locate into - might be worth checking that too?


The baseplate unfortunately didn’t seem to have those notches to lock the ladders to change angle.
It definitely seemed due to the inflexibility of the middle strap - all three straps are one piece and I think I tried loosening everything so that I could angle the toe straps as forward as possible, but it wouldn’t go anywhere near enough. Will definitely have to try again properly in about 10 days when I’m back.

What do people feel about the weight of the bindings?


----------



## 16gkid

Mountain Surfer said:


> What do people feel about the weight of the bindings?


Doesnt feel too different in hand compared with my other setups, will get mine on snow tomorrow, cant wait


----------



## StealthDJ

I just stuck my two setups on the bathroom scales:

2020 Burton Custom Camber 156 + 2019 Flow Fuse (Size L): 5.2kg
2023 Bataleon Whatever 157 + Supermatics (Size L): 5.2kg

I know the Custom is a pretty heavy board, but I was surprised at that.



16gkid said:


> Doesnt feel too different in hand compared with my other setups, will get mine on snow tomorrow, cant wait


----------



## 16gkid

Maybe with a regular style binding it would be lighter? Flows are also on the heavier end? Either way that's good info


----------



## StealthDJ

Quite probably, sadly I don't have any to test against. 

I knew the flows were heavier than average, but from the supermatic reviews, you'd think they were heavier than your average 4x4. I've never felt my old setup was particularly cumbersome, so good to know that the new one won't be any different in that regard.

I'm about to try fitting the flow fusion straps to the Nideckers to see if they fit - while I'm doing that, I'll get the relative weights of the bindings themselves...



16gkid said:


> Maybe with a regular style binding it would be lighter? Flows are also on the heavier end? Either way that's good info


----------



## StealthDJ

Just as a follow-up to my own post.

Relative weights of Flow Fuse and Supermatics. So I guess the Custom is 500g heavier than the Whatever.

Also, the fusion straps _do_ fit, but don’t work very well getting the boot in and out. Maybe the newer mesh-style ones are better, but the older type just snagged the boot constantly. Worth a shot, though.



































Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Donutz

I've seen a couple of posts indicating that some people already have Supermatics. For those of you, how did you get them? Special arrangements, online, or straight retail?

Here in Canada, it's all "coming soon". So when is "soon" when the season is already starting? Does that sound like good marketing? 

Yeah, I'm cranky. But you'd think on a big release of a new product like this, that they'd have the common sense to build some inventory.


----------



## lab49232

Donutz said:


> I've seen a couple of posts indicating that some people already have Supermatics. For those of you, how did you get them? Special arrangements, online, or straight retail?
> 
> Here in Canada, it's all "coming soon". So when is "soon" when the season is already starting? Does that sound like good marketing?
> 
> Yeah, I'm cranky. But you'd think on a big release of a new product like this, that they'd have the common sense to build some inventory.


Similar to last year product arrival and transport has been rough for all brands, especially Nidecker/Flow. They are still in the process of fulfilling a lot of retailer pre-orders, many placed in January. They're often shipping in small chunks so maybe 2-3 pairs at a time. This goes for their NX2 line, Supermatics, etc. You'll notice their NX2 Carbon line going up for sale and then instantly back to Out of Stock. The supply chain is still fantastically F-ed.


----------



## 16gkid

Donutz said:


> I've seen a couple of posts indicating that some people already have Supermatics. For those of you, how did you get them? Special arrangements, online, or straight retail?
> 
> Here in Canada, it's all "coming soon". So when is "soon" when the season is already starting? Does that sound like good marketing?
> 
> Yeah, I'm cranky. But you'd think on a big release of a new product like this, that they'd have the common sense to build some inventory.


Ordered a set of mediums from snowcountry.eu, sold out everywhere else(Evo, house, nidecker site) ended up actually being cheaper to order from eu site and had them in less than a week, fyi took em out yesterday on my 350ft hill, they're amazing 🤩


----------



## 16gkid

lab49232 said:


> Similar to last year product arrival and transport has been rough for all brands, especially Nidecker/Flow. They are still in the process of fulfilling a lot of retailer pre-orders, many placed in January. They're often shipping in small chunks so maybe 2-3 pairs at a time. This goes for their NX2 line, Supermatics, etc. You'll notice their NX2 Carbon line going up for sale and then instantly back to Out of Stock. The supply chain is still fantastically F-ed.


They're available, just gotta look around
EDIT- nvm you're right, can't find em anywhere now, not even listed on snowcountry anymore


----------



## StealthDJ

I managed to grab one of the pre-order slots from AbsoluteSnow back in September. Thought I was being overcautious at the time, but now glad I did.



Donutz said:


> I've seen a couple of posts indicating that some people already have Supermatics. For those of you, how did you get them? Special arrangements, online, or straight retail?
> 
> Here in Canada, it's all "coming soon". So when is "soon" when the season is already starting? Does that sound like good marketing?
> 
> Yeah, I'm cranky. But you'd think on a big release of a new product like this, that they'd have the common sense to build some inventory.


----------



## 16gkid

Had em out yesterday, was easy enough to setup the straps, can't go too tight, or it gets hard to step in, but they definitely work well, feels medium flex, but I can see stiffer highback changing the way they feel for people that like to speed. They feel great carving, plenty of forward lean adjust, aired em out and didn't explode on landing, all bolts were tight at the end of the day.
After a few runs I got comfortable stepping in without even stopping which I'm sure will become second nature after a few days, I will probably keep my now drives for my big mountain trips, but for these little Midwest hills, these things are great, full recommend








Mark Celestino on Instagram: "#nideckersupermatic"


Mark Celestino shared a post on Instagram: "#nideckersupermatic". Follow their account to see 47 posts.




www.instagram.com


----------



## NT.Thunder

16gkid said:


> Had em out yesterday, was easy enough to setup the straps, can't go too tight, or it gets hard to step in, but they definitely work well, feels medium flex, but I can see stiffer highback changing the way they feel for people that like to speed. They feel great carving, plenty of forward lean adjust, aired em out and didn't explode on landing, all bolts were tight at the end of the day.
> After a few runs I got comfortable stepping in without even stopping which I'm sure will become second nature after a few days, I will probably keep my now drives for my big mountain trips, but for these little Midwest hills, these things are great, full recommend
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mark Celestino on Instagram: "#nideckersupermatic"
> 
> 
> Mark Celestino shared a post on Instagram: "#nideckersupermatic". Follow their account to see 47 posts.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.instagram.com


Side note, what Insta360 do you shoot on? I've been looking at the Insta360 X2 or X3 but I've seen a new Onsta 360 One RS Twin come up at half price.


----------



## 16gkid

NT.Thunder said:


> Side note, what Insta360 do you shoot on? I've been looking at the Insta360 X2 or X3 but I've seen a new Onsta 360 One RS Twin come up at half price.


Still the original x1, I heard the x3 is really good, I've been tempted to get a GoPro 11 since the stabilization is so so good now and I can use it for my car as well


----------



## NT.Thunder

Seems pricy but avilable


----------



## adam_z

I posted this previously on this thread, but I was able to get my local shop rep to reach out the moment they received their stock and got 2 sets for me, and 1 for a friend.

However, I am considering parting with a set I still have in the box.

I had planned to put the 2nd set on another board, but ordered a set of Atlas Pro’s that I’m thinking I’m gonna run instead (though undecided as I’ve yet to receive them to test fit).

I did get to use the Supermatics last weekend and they live up to the hype. Stepping in was seamless. Couldn’t believe it.

I’m still up in the air on parting with my 2nd set until I get the Atlas Pros tomorrow. But it’s very likely I’ll part with them, so there may be one more set hitting the market.


----------



## NT.Thunder

What's the concensus on these Supermatics, are they as easy as locking in on the move coming off the lift or is there more to it than that.

A few pairs are starting to show here in Oz and look to be selling pretty quick, not many units available from the sounds of it.


----------



## money4me247

NT.Thunder said:


> What's the concensus on these Supermatics, are they as easy as locking in on the move coming off the lift or is there more to it than that.
> 
> A few pairs are starting to show here in Oz and look to be selling pretty quick, not many units available from the sounds of it.


It's doable, but I think it is a bit sketchy doing it on the move. I purchased the Supermatics hoping to get to ride off the chairlift and step-in, but ran into two main issues when practicing doing it.

First, if your foot is not angled correctly, you can just get stuck midway where you can't get your foot out easily or get your foot in easily. Second, there isn't really an audible 'click' or tactile feedback where your boot is fully stepped in. This is normally not a problem 99% of the time, but I've had a few times where the bindings randomly did not securely click down and it's not very easily fixable on the move (like doing an ollie or hard heel-side curve does not help click the bindings down) and you can't really tell while on the move until your foot just comes out of the binding during toeside turns. This happened to me a few times randomly with the worse being when I was going down a steep slope and it caused an unexpected and scary crash. Hard to reproducible why it didn't click down securely, so now I'm paranoid when stepping in and do a twisting upward tug afterwards to check every time.

I've done a lot of riding in the past on the Burton Step-Ons and Flows NX-2s as well. The Burton's I was able to master stepping in while moving within a day of practicing. It feels very safe and easy to step-in while moving on the Burton Step-Ons because your foot cannot get caught on anything, you can feel each click as you step in, and you can just do a hard heel-side carve or ollie to get it fully clicked in. The Flows took a bit more practice, but I can also get in those on the move if going slower and it isn't too steep.

I've ridden the Supermatic for about a week so far (with swapping back to my normal Burton Genesis with two straps and also Flow NX2 to see how they compare against each other), and I will plan on again in a few weeks. I don't use the Burton Step-Ons anymore since they really hurt my feet and cause a very painful pinky toe hotspot with prolonged riding.

My initial brief impressions for the Supermatics is that the step-in feature is convenient and usually works well, but not as game-changing overall as I hoped. The Supermatics needs more downward force than I originally expected to step into the bindings as well, so it doesn't work by just stepping in, but you need to to actively stomp down with your heel. It does have a large deadspot and less board feel compared to all my other bindings, and it is also very noticeably heavier than all my other bindings (even the Flows NX2). The highback folds down enough that I don't need to undo the bindings when carrying it in my snowboard bag, and I am not worried at all about the chairlift hitting the highback when folded. I plan to ride primarily the Supermatics this season to get a better feel for the set-up, but a lot of my initial excitement for these bindings has faded and tempered down.

To be honest, I think the Burton Step-On system is nicer and works much better overall if your feet work with their boots (though I really do hate proprietary systems, and my feet don't work with the system).

I even think that a well set-up pair of Flow bindings can be better depending on your needs. I know some people really hate Flows, but the Flows are lighter weight, more comfortable, easier to kick-in while on the move, and you can always use rear-entry even on sketchy / steep terrain by kneeling and kicking in. The main pro of the Supermatic vs the Flows is that for initial entry you can just step-down (no need to reach down and click up the Flow highback). The speed of entry still is basically the same. For me, I like how I know I am locked in after clicking up the highback for the Flows, but for the Supermatics, I am never sure if I am fully locked in after stepping down. The Supermatics really needs more tactile or audible feedback to let you know when your heel is locked down when they make the second generation version of the product.

One other annoying thing that I found using the Supermatics is that it can be very difficult to step in if you are not on flat terrain. If you kick a small shelf with your heelside on the steeps that can often prevent the system from clicking in, so I haven't figured out the most reliable way to step in on steeper terrain yet. Kicking a shelf with the toe side hasn't always been reliable for me as you need something firm on your heelside to engage the click.

I think my initial experience with the Supermatics was slightly marred by small nitpicks, but for an easy-of-entry type binding, if there are any hiccups or inconveniences with the easy-of-entry system, it becomes a lot less appealing. I can strap in standing up with normal two strap bindings within a few seconds too, so I was really hoping for a ride-off-the-chair and easy step-in experience like I had with the Burton Step-Ons. Reserving final judgement until I spend more time with the bindings, but this isn't a binding that I would just blanket recommend for those looking for the best easy-entry binding. The other options on the market remain very competitive in comparison, and the Nidecker Supermatic isn't the obvious best option as some other online reviews may suggest.

I may even buy the Clew bindings next season during an early bird sale to really experience all the different quick entry options (I was originally turned off to the Clew bindings due to a few online reviewers disliking the bindings, but I don't really trust the online reviews anymore). For example, Malcolm Moore (who I still really love and recommend all his content) made it sound like the Nidecker Supermatic is obviously significantly better than all the other quick-entry bindings on the market, but as someone who has used a few different systems, I don't think the Nidecker Supermatic has established itself as the obvious best quick entry option. There is always a difference between someone reviewing free gear vs people talking about gear they purchased the gear themselves.

If you want the Supermatic bindings though, you have to buy asap as they sell out insanely quickly.

I was considering buying a medium size Supermatic to see if the overall fit works better (I am size 8.0 so in-between Medium and Large), but out of stock everywhere. If there is anyone else who is size 8.0, I would recommend considering medium size instead of large as I am at the smallest settings and there is still some minor play.

Also, for those on the channel board, you really need to screw these down tightly and recheck the screws regularly. I've had my back binding become loose after 1 day of riding (from all the stomping into the binding and then pulling up to test that it is locked in).


----------



## 16gkid

NT.Thunder said:


> What's the concensus on these Supermatics, are they as easy as locking in on the move coming off the lift or is there more to it than that.
> 
> A few pairs are starting to show here in Oz and look to be selling pretty quick, not many units available from the sounds of it.


They were to me after day 2 on them, but sounds like it's harder for some others, the key is to not go too tight on the back foot so it slides in easier on the move, and you should already be very comfortable one footing a board, also I had an incident where the bottom of my pants blocked the binding from locking down but again not really a big deal.
I found the supermatics to be a little easier to step into on the move compared to the Burton step ons, and twice as easy to get out of, the Burtons require you to twist your foot out of the binding and it felt awkward, the supermatics you just pull your foot back and up.

Four days on them and no complaints, they feel good carving, feel good popping off the ground, the extra weight doesn't feel noticeable once they're on foot, 

I'm a believer, they feel nothing like flows at all and feel like regular bindings, I think they're enough for the majority of resort riders👍


----------



## adam_z

NT.Thunder said:


> What's the concensus on these Supermatics, are they as easy as locking in on the move coming off the lift or is there more to it than that.
> 
> A few pairs are starting to show here in Oz and look to be selling pretty quick, not many units available from the sounds of it.


I've had my set out a couple of times now. There's definitely a learning curve as you have to get your boot aligned vertically - and while moving in some cases. However, I've found that after some practice, it's entirely doable. And it's WAY quicker. I took up two boards this weekend (Souly Grail and Pentaquark). I had the Supermatics on the Souly, and when I later swapped to the Penta, it was so apparent how much more time it took to find a spot to strap in (while dealing w/ a bunch of other people doing the same). 

I'd guess that with a few full days w/ them, you'd be a pro at stepping in. 

Personally, I think they're a game changer. It's awkward at first, but once you get it, it's super easy. 

Also, make sure to follow the online video on how to set them up or you might find that they're harder to get into than they should. Once they're wet with snow, they should be really easy while locking you in securely.


----------



## Fiasco

My initial impressions of the Supermatic are pretty bad, and that’s before even getting to the mountain.

First point on build quality:

They came out of the box with different levels of tension for the swinging foot pedal. I didn’t even know that was supposed to be a moving piece at all. So now I’m sitting here thinking wth is this, how am I supposed to know what tension is the right tension? Am I supposed to adjust this? There’s nothing in the manual about this…

Second point on the step-in functionality:

Let down. The experience can be summed up into one sentence: it doesn't work like the commercials (and I can prove it). You’ll notice in the instagram and YouTube videos that when people jump into them or when they put their foot in while riding that the camera always pans off of them before they need to make a turn or any other type of movement that requires your boots to be properly secured to the bindings. This is because you can’t get your boots into the bindings unless the straps are loose. If you tighten the straps it makes it infinitely harder to get your boots into the bindings. This is a let down, and quite unfortunate.

Last point on durability:

These haven’t even seen the mountain yet and they are already coming apart. The foam insert underneath the toe is already beginning to show heavy wear due to simply putting my boot inside of the binding and taking it out.

Contacted Nidecker on instagram about these issues and I’m being left on read, so these are likely getting returned. Likely going the route of Burton Step-On.


----------



## 16gkid

Fiasco said:


> My initial impressions of the Supermatic are pretty bad, and that’s before even getting to the mountain.
> 
> First point on build quality:
> 
> They came out of the box with different levels of tension for the swinging foot pedal. I didn’t even know that was supposed to be a moving piece at all. So now I’m sitting here thinking wth is this, how am I supposed to know what tension is the right tension? Am I supposed to adjust this? There’s nothing in the manual about this…
> 
> Second point on the step-in functionality:
> 
> Let down. The experience can be summed up into one sentence: it doesn't work like the commercials (and I can prove it). You’ll notice in the instagram and YouTube videos that when people jump into them or when they put their foot in while riding that the camera always pans off of them before they need to make a turn or any other type of movement that requires your boots to be properly secured to the bindings. This is because you can’t get your boots into the bindings unless the straps are loose. If you tighten the straps it makes it infinitely harder to get your boots into the bindings. This is a let down, and quite unfortunate.
> 
> Last point on durability:
> 
> These haven’t even seen the mountain yet and they are already coming apart. The foam insert underneath the toe is already beginning to show heavy wear due to simply putting my boot inside of the binding and taking it out.
> 
> Contacted Nidecker on instagram about these issues and I’m being left on read, so these are likely getting returned. Likely going the route of Burton Step-On.


1. WUT
2. You didnt prove it though, I can prove it does work like in the videos - Mark Celestino on Instagram: "#nideckersupermatic" 
3. Coming apart? like how? Ive put 4 days on mine and everything works just fine
What an amazing review, didnt even use the damn things  💩


----------



## Fiasco

16gkid said:


> 1. WUT
> 2. You didnt prove it though, I can prove it does work like in the videos - Mark Celestino on Instagram: "#nideckersupermatic"
> 3. Coming apart? like how? Ive put 4 days on mine and everything works just fine
> What an amazing review, didnt even use the damn things  💩


That guy must like riding his bindings extremely loose, because that’s the only way that video happens. Also can’t dispute the fact that the majority of videos, including the ones Nidecker put out themselves, pan off the riders after they use the step in function.

Additionally, you don’t have to be on a mountain to test the step in functionality of bindings and to notice wear that directly results from the intended use of the step-in function. You may have missed it through your rage but my previous post mentions nothing about how they feel on the mountain. 

I think you also may have blown your cover, nobody takes personal offence to an honest review the way you just did. You must work at Nidecker. Tell me, is it common practice to ignore customers that send messages about issues with their gear? Are you guys just too gassed with high sales right now to be bothered with after sale care? The first iterations of products ALWAYS have issues, it’s absolutely unavoidable. A good company would have anticipated this, and put processes in place to address it. The idea is cool, that’s why I dropped the money on them, but we’re going to need 2-3 iterations of it before it begins to work as intended.

My recommendation:

If you’re down to deal with a product that isn’t as advertised, wears prematurely, and a company that ignores messages, then get into a pair of Supermatics. If you want something that works, now, then buy something that has been on the market for a few years already.


----------



## lab49232

Fiasco said:


> That guy must like riding his bindings extremely loose, because that’s the only way that video happens. Also can’t dispute the fact that the majority of videos, including the ones Nidecker put out themselves, pan off the riders after they use the step in function.
> 
> Additionally, you don’t have to be on a mountain to test the step in functionality of bindings and to notice wear that directly results from the intended use of the step-in function. You may have missed it through your rage but my previous post mentions nothing about how they feel on the mountain.
> 
> I think you also may have blown your cover, nobody takes personal offence to an honest review the way you just did. You must work at Nidecker. Tell me, is it common practice to ignore customers that send messages about issues with their gear? Are you guys just too gassed with high sales right now to be bothered with after sale care? The first iterations of products ALWAYS have issues, it’s absolutely unavoidable. A good company would have anticipated this, and put processes in place to address it. The idea is cool, that’s why I dropped the money on them, but we’re going to need 2-3 iterations of it before it begins to work as intended.
> 
> My recommendation:
> 
> If you’re down to deal with a product that isn’t as advertised, wears prematurely, and a company that ignores messages, then get into a pair of Supermatics. If you want something that works, now, then buy something that has been on the market for a few years already.


On the off chance you're not a troll

Dude.... Stop. You're not making Nidecker or the Supermatics look bad, you're just making yourself look like a Karen. Your review of a product you've never even ridden isn't a review and isn't helpful to anyone. Talking about a product wearing out early when you haven't even tried it? Go back to hiding under your bridge.


----------



## rgrwilco

Its no secret they were in development for a long time. now, i'm not excusing their lack of communication, but i've had burton leave me on read for months for a catastrophic binding failure (ended up having to buy new bindings so i could ride until they got back to me). seems common in snow equipment, which with the customer service platforms available to companies, should no longer be a thing.

of course everyones mileage will vary. some people have major design and warranty issues with burton step ons. Hell, people have QA issues with tried and true strap bindings. it doesnt mean its par for the course.

Im sure as this season progresses we will see more and more reviews, however, they seem to be a move in the right direction over the step ons.

Also, can we get this thread renamed something like "Supermatic Superthread"


----------



## 16gkid

Fiasco said:


> That guy must like riding his bindings extremely loose, because that’s the only way that video happens. Also can’t dispute the fact that the majority of videos, including the ones Nidecker put out themselves, pan off the riders after they use the step in function.
> 
> Additionally, you don’t have to be on a mountain to test the step in functionality of bindings and to notice wear that directly results from the intended use of the step-in function. You may have missed it through your rage but my previous post mentions nothing about how they feel on the mountain.
> 
> I think you also may have blown your cover, nobody takes personal offence to an honest review the way you just did. You must work at Nidecker. Tell me, is it common practice to ignore customers that send messages about issues with their gear? Are you guys just too gassed with high sales right now to be bothered with after sale care? The first iterations of products ALWAYS have issues, it’s absolutely unavoidable. A good company would have anticipated this, and put processes in place to address it. The idea is cool, that’s why I dropped the money on them, but we’re going to need 2-3 iterations of it before it begins to work as intended.
> 
> My recommendation:
> 
> If you’re down to deal with a product that isn’t as advertised, wears prematurely, and a company that ignores messages, then get into a pair of Supermatics. If you want something that works, now, then buy something that has been on the market for a few years already.


I'm speechless how a 1 season rookie can be so confident and be so fucking wrong about everything, my god, go ride some more bud, cuz ur "review" is worthless, I'm not even gonna break down your response since it's so goddamn stupid🫣🖕


----------



## Sudden_Death

The foam wear sounds like someone has been going in dry with no lube repeatedly. Likely eager to keep trying them out. I got a bit of that setting some Flows a few seasons ago. Got them in the off-season and decided to set them up. Kept kicking in dry to dial the fit and it caused the foam on the footbed and lining the highback to wear. Wasn't anything to worry about. Since you've got them post up some pics and I can see if it's comparable?


----------



## adam_z

I can personally say that the "review" Fiasco posted above is nothing close to my experience whatsoever. I've used these bindings w/o any of the issues mentioned. My buddy took out his new set with me and also didn't have the issues above, and it was his first time out with them (so it was a bit clunky for him at first, etc).


----------



## Fiasco

I have an update to my review.

Concerning my first observation with the tension level of the pedal, I decided to call stores to see if they could check their stock and tell me what type of tension they were getting out of the box. I finally found a Canadian store with stock and they gave me some very useful info that I will now share with everyone.

I was informed that Nidecker contacted this shop in particular with a "service" notice concerning this part specifically. They instructed the shop to open all of their new stock and apply blue Loctite to the axle bolts that attach the pedals to the frame. The shop told me that when they checked all of their stock the tension was super loose on all of their models. 

They informed me that they performed the service to all of the bindings and that they are being sold as new. I appreciated this shop's honesty. Still deciding if I want to name drop them though because I don't want to adversely effect their sales. I would just want everyone to know that if you buy a pair of these, know that there is an active service notice on them. Your pedal tension will more than likely be loose, that said they still function (albeit not as advertised) but the lack of tension in the pedal makes them feel less solid. 

I have no doubts that current Supermatic owners will likely notice this (unless you received a box that was not sealed when you purchased yours, in which case the service has likely been completed). Feel free to chime in with your observations.


----------



## Fiasco

Sudden_Death said:


> The foam wear sounds like someone has been going in dry with no lube repeatedly. Likely eager to keep trying them out. I got a bit of that setting some Flows a few seasons ago. Got them in the off-season and decided to set them up. Kept kicking in dry to dial the fit and it caused the foam on the footbed and lining the highback to wear. Wasn't anything to worry about. Since you've got them post up some pics and I can see if it's comparable?


That is likely what it is exactly, I would just imagine they would catch something like this in their testing period and opt for a tougher material in that area. I'll try to get some pics.


----------



## Pablo$

Affect, not effect.


----------



## robotfood99

Someone is trying too hard to live up to their name.


----------



## StealthDJ

Something doesn't ring quite true here. Mainly:

- I've already had some bits apart on mine when I was trying to see if the Fusion straps fit. Every single bolt I removed had blue loctite on it already (and these were new unopened from the factory, pre-ordered).

- I checked the tension of the heel plate and removed the bolts to take a look, pictures below. You'll note that a: The bolt has blue loctite on it. b: It's shouldered. c: The arm of the heel plate sits on a spigot, with a shim behind. The upshot of that lot is that you _can't_ tighten these things up to restrict how freely the heel plate swings without destroying them - the shoulder on the bolt bottoms-out against the top of the thread and the bolt cap bottoms out against the spigot. Tighten it until you're at the point of stripping the threads if you like, it won't bind unless someone's messed with it (or put two shims in), or it's been damaged
.

- Also, it doesn't require loose straps to get a boot in. Even dry. You need to make sure you get the strap centred on the boot when you set them up, but after that it's plain-sailing.


----------



## money4me247

I have no issues with the 'tension' of the moving heel portion. The tension of both are symmetrical for me. No issues with durability either after 1 week of full day riding.

My toe bindings have a little bit of play as I have large bindings with size 8 boots (I think medium binding size would work better size 8 boots that have reduced footprint/volume like Burton or Adidas). So I can't say if really tight bindings can make it very hard to step-in, but the very minimal looseness in my toe strap hasn't really caused any issues with my riding. I have used normal bindings and flow bindings before, so I am comfortable riding in with bindings that are not cranked down super tight.

For easy-of-entry, I did notice it gets harder if you fully max the forward lean settings and that can cause the heel to sometimes not click in reliably on the fully maxed forward lean due to the angles. I like very aggressive forward lean, so I have forward lean set one step below max, and it works fine so far.

I was looking at the angles and how the bindings fit the boot, and I think your boot shape (if it has built in forward lean) can play a role in what forward lean settings will work well for you. I wear the Adidas Acerra.


----------



## 16gkid

I dunno, do I trust 2 guys that have ridden them and taken them apart Or a novice that has never ridden them before and doesn't even know what the parts are called? Tough choice...😂🤣


----------



## NT.Thunder

16gkid said:


> They were to me after day 2 on them, but sounds like it's harder for some others, the key is to not go too tight on the back foot so it slides in easier on the move, and you should already be very comfortable one footing a board, also I had an incident where the bottom of my pants blocked the binding from locking down but again not really a big deal.
> I found the supermatics to be a little easier to step into on the move compared to the Burton step ons, and twice as easy to get out of, the Burtons require you to twist your foot out of the binding and it felt awkward, the supermatics you just pull your foot back and up.
> 
> Four days on them and no complaints, they feel good carving, feel good popping off the ground, the extra weight doesn't feel noticeable once they're on foot,
> 
> I'm a believer, they feel nothing like flows at all and feel like regular bindings, I think they're enough for the majority of resort riders👍


What are your thoughts with the binding in a bit of powder? My kids got me a set for Xmas so planning on taking them to Japan, wondering whether I should also chuck in the trustee K2 Lien AT's as a just in case. I do want to travel light this trip though.


----------



## 16gkid

NT.Thunder said:


> What are your thoughts with the binding in a bit of powder? My kids got me a set for Xmas so planning on taking them to Japan, wondering whether I should also chuck in the trustee K2 Lien AT's as a just in case. I do want to travel light this trip though.


I think you would be fine, they are really easy to use as regular bindings if you need to strap in that way


----------



## khdmtb

Supermatic vs. Kaon-CX: Anyone either compared these two first hand, or have a link to a side-by-side review? I have been using the Flow NX2 on a LibTech Darker Series (161W) as my everyday board, as well as for ski patrol. I am intrigued by the Nidecker dual entry design but not sure if I want the Supermatic that has an 8/8/8 rating or the Kaon-CX that is 9/9/9. Any thoughts welcome. Thanks


----------



## Sudden_Death

khdmtb said:


> Supermatic vs. Kaon-CX: Anyone either compared these two first hand, or have a link to a side-by-side review? I have been using the Flow NX2 on a LibTech Darker Series (161W) as my everyday board, as well as for ski patrol. I am intrigued by the Nidecker dual entry design but not sure if I want the Supermatic that has an 8/8/8 rating or the Kaon-CX that is 9/9/9. Any thoughts welcome. Thanks


The Kaon-CX would be far more responsive but it is not a fast entry binding like Flows or Supermatic.


----------



## khdmtb

Oh, my bad. I thought the KaonCX was a carbon version (lighter, stiffer) of the Supermatic. I guess not?


----------



## Sudden_Death

khdmtb said:


> Oh, my bad. I thought the KaonCX was a carbon version (lighter, stiffer) of the Supermatic. I guess not?


No, only the Supermatic has the quick entry. The others in the Kaon line do look very similar but are ratchet bindings.


----------



## eelpout

Been riding them 3 days in Tahoe. These are really Flows, the Sequel with the same caveats. 

If you like to ride with the straps snug, you're going to have some issues getting in and out. I believe Malcolm Moore even says as much in his follow-up video review. My K2 boots also hang up on the roller on their heel ridge when getting out. I'm going to try and address that with layers of tape. These are boot dependent no matter what Nidecker says. Check the back designs of their current lineup of boots if you don't believe me. (Some of the additional vertical stretches of rubber no doubt came from Flow bindings benefiting from it earlier)

I get around the snugness problem with my carbon Flows by adjusting the hybrid toe cap each time I get in and out. I'll have to try that with the Supermatics, but while I'm ok doing that with the Flows, I feel it really defeats the purpose with these.

Another note, if you watch the Nidecker video of these you might notice that some riders have cuffed up their pants before getting in. This is to prevent the flare of the pants from getting under the ankle strap. I've had to monitor this myself because I'm not a fan of riding with the cuff stuck under there; I'm sure some wouldn't care. Also having the cuff _behind_ the high back when getting out could give one problems too. But if you're a Flow rider you already know this. 😏

The flex is _just_ stuff enough for me, and toe to heel transition is good, but boy that high back is malleable.

I like riding these, but sometimes on the hill I do wonder if just a pair of Kaon Pluses for 65% of the price would be fine.


----------



## BurtonAvenger

First off what kind of bullshit is this? Second off how long have you been snowboarding bud? All your conjecture is typical conspiracy theory lies. 

I broke one pair the second day I used them when I was reviewing them. Those things are designed to last. I don't even fucking like them and think they're good.

FYI the social media team is based out of Switzerland, the warranty department isn't right next to them. 

God damn this whole thing smells like a fucktard that works for Burton.


----------



## Craig64

BurtonAvenger said:


> First off what kind of bullshit is this? Second off how long have you been snowboarding bud? All your conjecture is typical conspiracy theory lies.
> 
> I broke one pair the second day I used them when I was reviewing them. Those things are designed to last. I don't even fucking like them and think they're good.
> 
> FYI the social media team is based out of Switzerland, the warranty department isn't right next to them.
> 
> God damn this whole thing smells like a fucktard that works for Burton.


Like a fiasco?*🤪*


----------



## eelpout

Hmm. Twice today the ratchet mechanism was iced over and I couldn't get the levers down at the end of a long run. Had to chop away around the cogs to get it to free up to get the back boot out.

Has that happened to anyone else? I'll have to be mindful to keep that area cleaner than I had been.


----------



## money4me247

@eelpout . The lever mechanism has gotten stuck a few times for me as well. No ice though, it was just some packed snow on the inner gear portion (on both sides) preventing it from opening. I've used the bindings for almost 2 weeks, and it has only happened a few times. Pretty rare occurrence in general but happened multiple times today for me, may have been the snow conditions.

If there's packed snow on one side, usually it still opens, you just need to press a lot harder. But even when it got really stuck, I was still able to open it with the lever after finagling a bit with brushing off some snow and repeatedly pressing down hard on the lever multiple times. I haven't used the regular straps yet (and I'm not planning on it as it defeats the purpose of the fast entry system)

However, this issue with snow clogging up the unlatching mechanism seems like something that can frequently happen given how the inner latch opens downwards, so only need a little bit of snow or ice in there to prevent it from opening. I'm surprised this hasn't come up in feedback until now.


edit: This is my 2nd trip out with these bindings, and I've grown to like them more compared to my initial impressions. I've gotten pretty good with the amount of force needed to lock these bindings shut, so besides my first two days during my last trip, I haven't had any repeated episodes of the bindings opening after stepping in. Despite my large Supermatic bindings being slightly too big for my size 8 boots and the straps being slightly loose, the bindings are still very comfortable and responsive enough. I'm hoping customer service can send me the medium-sized straps to solve the issue, otherwise, I am planning to buy the medium size Supermatic binding when they get back in stock. When I want to feel extremely locked in, I use my Burton Genesis with straps anyways, but the convenience factor of not having to strap in does really add up during a long trip.

The convenience / performance of the Supermatics compared to the Flows NX-2 is not that drastic where I have a clear-cut favorite. I actually like the Flow NX-2 entry/exit system better, but the Supermatic bindings center a bit better on my board with its position being closer to my Burton Genesis bindings so easier to swap back and forth.

Oh, and for those on a channel board. Be prepared to retighten your screws every few days. These binding screws has been getting loose faster than my other bindings. Now really cranking down extra when I tighten the screws. If this remains an ongoing issue, I will probably get some plumber tape or put nail polish on the screws.

I will be planning on primarily using the Supermatics for the rest of the season. Will post additional thoughts / feedback if anything new comes up.


----------



## StealthDJ

Get yourself a stick of loctite. Won't stop you removing the screws if you absolutely need to, but will hold them in place. Worth cleaning any old loctite out of the threads before you apply it, though.



money4me247 said:


> Oh, and for those on a channel board. Be prepared to retighten your screws every few days. These binding screws has been getting loose faster than my other bindings. Now really cranking down extra when I tighten the screws. If this remains an ongoing issue, I will probably get some plumber tape or put nail polish on the screws.


----------



## t21

Enjoy your Supermatic and hopefully it would be as popular as the Step-on. I have seen more step-on binding users on one of the mountains i go to frequently and that's a good thing.


----------



## 16gkid

backcountry has one set of mediums in stock if anyone is looking, will probably be gone soon....
shorturl.at/jntWY


----------



## croz27

Fiasco said:


> My initial impressions of the Supermatic are pretty bad, and that’s before even getting to the mountain. First point on build quality: They came out of the box with different levels of tension for the swinging foot pedal. I didn’t even know that was supposed to be a moving piece at all. So now I’m sitting here thinking wth is this, how am I supposed to know what tension is the right tension? Am I supposed to adjust this? There’s nothing in the manual about this… Second point on the step-in functionality: Let down. The experience can be summed up into one sentence: it doesn't work like the commercials (and I can prove it). You’ll notice in the instagram and YouTube videos that when people jump into them or when they put their foot in while riding that the camera always pans off of them before they need to make a turn or any other type of movement that requires your boots to be properly secured to the bindings. This is because you can’t get your boots into the bindings unless the straps are loose. If you tighten the straps it makes it infinitely harder to get your boots into the bindings. This is a let down, and quite unfortunate. Last point on durability: These haven’t even seen the mountain yet and they are already coming apart. The foam insert underneath the toe is already beginning to show heavy wear due to simply putting my boot inside of the binding and taking it out. Contacted Nidecker on instagram about these issues and I’m being left on read, so these are likely getting returned. Likely going the route of Burton Step-On.


 what is your Instagram handle? Let me look into this for you.


----------



## money4me247

16gkid said:


> backcountry has one set of mediums in stock if anyone is looking, will probably be gone soon....
> shorturl.at/jntWY


Good find! ... but sadly already out of stock.

Luckily, the medium is actually in stock at quite a few different places. ski pedigree online and mt evervest in NJ with online ordering both have them in stock currently.






Supermatic 23


Enjoy the whole mountain without a care in the world thanks to the all new Nidecker Supermatic Snowboard Bindings. Stiff, responsive, and rockered for fun, these high energy players allow you to get in and out with ease. Equipped with a release lever on the baseplate, all it takes is the flip of...




www.pedigreeskishop.com













Nidecker Supermatic Snowboard Binding | Mount Everest


Check out the Nidecker Supermatic Snowboard Binding at Mount Everest. The Nidecker Supermatic is in stock and ready to ship.




www.ridemteverest.com





I spoke to Nidecker customer service this week and they said larges out of stock most places but mediums still available at a lot of authorized dealers. Use the tool on their website and they have a special icon for supermatic dealers. They said medium bindings will continue to roll into stock at authorized dealers but no incoming large bindings at this time.

Link to find authorized Supermatic dealers: Nidecker | Find a Store

I was trying to see if I could exchange my large for medium bindings with nidecker but they said sadly they can't exchange used bindings, and they don't have any extra medium straps right now, so I picked up a new pair of medium bindings as well.

I strongly recommend that people with size 8 boots go with medium bindings. The middle connection strap will make your toe strap be loose if your boot length is too short (aka size 8 boot with large bindings) as it holds the toe strap out a certain distance.

edit: added links.


----------



## eelpout

money4me247 said:


> The convenience / performance of the Supermatics compared to the Flows NX-2 is not that drastic where I have a clear-cut favorite. I actually like the Flow NX-2 entry/exit system better, but the Supermatic bindings center a bit better on my board with its position being closer to my Burton Genesis bindings so easier to swap back and forth.


icing over: i've decider to pack a plastic spudger in my bag to carry with to Telluride in a week for any ice chipping. 

funny you mention Flow's. I was comparing them against my Flow Fuse Carbon's at Palisades Tahoe. I think I still prefer the Flow's for riding overall, but my (old) knees do appreciate one less round of bending down to get in the Supermatics. For Flow's I spend more time bent down because in addition to the high back flip lever, I also tighten and loosen the hybrid toe straps when getting in/out now.

I find it a bit more difficult to get in the Nidecker's though oddly, partially due to having to "aim" the boot with my degree of strap tightness and because my K2's get caught on the medial strap sometimes. Maybe I'll just get Nidecker boots next time, maybe it'll help.


----------



## eelpout

If the icing over of the ratchets locking mechanism happens again to anyone else here please let Nidecker know through their support page, they'd like pictures of what it looks like. This is something they say they haven't seen. 

Contact us | Nidecker Snowboards

One tip they passed along is to be sure to keep the heel down _firmly_ on the pedal when first pushing down the release lever, this insures the best way for the hook to catch the gear. It's possible snow can build-up underneath the pedal too which can hamper this so keep it and the locking gear area both clean of snow when possible.


----------



## kayate

I just ordered a pair of Supermatics size Medium. The online store only had medium in stock and I when i checked the sizing chart Medium is 4.5-8.5. I wear US size 9 Vans Encore Single BOA boot. Do you think it'll work? Thank you if anyone could help.


----------



## money4me247

kayate said:


> I just ordered a pair of Supermatics size Medium. The online store only had medium in stock and I when i checked the sizing chart Medium is 4.5-8.5. I wear US size 9 Vans Encore Single BOA boot. Do you think it'll work? Thank you if anyone could help.


Large size is sold out everywhere. I think good chance that size 9 may be able to work with a medium binding. I have US size 8 and large was definitely too big but medium fit fine and still have room to further expand both the ankle and toe straps. You may be close to max settings with the straps and may need to ride with the straps a bit tight. The other concern is that you may have a significant amount of toe overhang as the foot pedal does not expand much and the heel cup is non-adjustable due to the step-in design. So I think you should test how well you can get your boot centered on the binding and board, and evaluate for too much overhang, and make sure that the straps are not pressing too tightly on your boots (they work best with the straps snugly fitted but not extremely cranked down with a lot of pressure for easier entry/exit). You should be able to see if the medium works prior to riding the bindings. Remember after riding them, you can't return them!

That actually happened to me. I initially purchased a large supermatic binding as I wear large Flow bindings and thought larger bindings for quick entry made more sense. However, the middle connecting strap means that your boot has to be a certain length or else the toe strap will not stay in the right place. It looked fine at home, but when riding, the toe cap was loose. Unfortunately, it wasn't refundable because I rode it prior to realizing the straps were loose. It actually still rode fine with loose toe straps. If your medium doesn't work out and you want to buy a used large pair, you can PM me. I may decide to sell my large Supermatic bindings if none of my friends want it.


----------



## kayate

money4me247 said:


> Large size is sold out everywhere. I think good chance that size 9 may be able to work with a medium binding. I have US size 8 and large was definitely too big but medium fit fine and still have room to further expand both the ankle and toe straps. You may be close to max settings with the straps and may need to ride with the straps a bit tight. The other concern is that you may have a significant amount of toe overhang as the foot pedal does not expand much and the heel cup is non-adjustable due to the step-in design. So I think you should test how well you can get your boot centered on the binding and board, and evaluate for too much overhang, and make sure that the straps are not pressing too tightly on your boots (they work best with the straps snugly fitted but not extremely cranked down with a lot of pressure for easier entry/exit). You should be able to see if the medium works prior to riding the bindings. Remember after riding them, you can't return them!
> 
> That actually happened to me. I initially purchased a large supermatic binding as I wear large Flow bindings and thought larger bindings for quick entry made more sense. However, the middle connecting strap means that your boot has to be a certain length or else the toe strap will not stay in the right place. It looked fine at home, but when riding, the toe cap was loose. Unfortunately, it wasn't refundable because I rode it prior to realizing the straps were loose. It actually still rode fine with loose toe straps. If your medium doesn't work out and you want to buy a used large pair, you can PM me. I may decide to sell my large Supermatic bindings if none of my friends want it.


Thanks for your response, it was definitely helpful and gives me an insight into the sizing and the bindings. As you mentioned, I also did read that you need to give some slack for the straps in order to easily slip in and out of them, which is what I'm worried about. I've always rode traditional bindings and had them tight on the boot so I'm wondering if it'll make a huge difference, or only on the ease of entry/exit. I do prefer the straps to be tighter rather than loose/big like how you mentioned your size 8 boots felt with the large size bindings. Another option I was thinking was to find a boot that's less bulky or downsize to 8.5 and see if it'll fit the binding better, but again that would mean spending more money on new boots _sigh_. If you have any recommendations for boots that would be awesome as well. I emailed the shop and asked them for their opinion on the binding size for my boot, so I'll see what they say. Unfortunately I purchased from a shop that's located in a different province (state), so I would likely have to sell them online if the shop isn't willing to cancel the order. I'm located in Toronto, Canada but hey if you're ever in the area and the bindings don't fit, I'm sure we can figure something out. Thanks again!


----------



## money4me247

kayate said:


> Thanks for your response, it was definitely helpful and gives me an insight into the sizing and the bindings. As you mentioned, I also did read that you need to give some slack for the straps in order to easily slip in and out of them, which is what I'm worried about. I've always rode traditional bindings and had them tight on the boot so I'm wondering if it'll make a huge difference, or only on the ease of entry/exit. I do prefer the straps to be tighter rather than loose/big like how you mentioned your size 8 boots felt with the large size bindings. Another option I was thinking was to find a boot that's less bulky or downsize to 8.5 and see if it'll fit the binding better, but again that would mean spending more money on new boots _sigh_. If you have any recommendations for boots that would be awesome as well. I emailed the shop and asked them for their opinion on the binding size for my boot, so I'll see what they say. Unfortunately I purchased from a shop that's located in a different province (state), so I would likely have to sell them online if the shop isn't willing to cancel the order. I'm located in Toronto, Canada but hey if you're ever in the area and the bindings don't fit, I'm sure we can figure something out. Thanks again!


For my strap bindings, I also like to ride with them cranked down extremely tightly, but for the Nidecker bindings, they work fine with the straps just snuggly in place - it does not feel loose while riding. Still performs really well and feels good. The straps on the Nidecker bindings are held in place by the mid-strap, so once you get a really good fit, you don't need to worry about it again.

When I switched to the medium Nidecker bindings, I originally had the bindings so tight that I got some intermittent numbness/tingling in my foot and it was a bit harder to step-in. So I loosened it slightly, and it still performs really well, and much more comfy, and easier to step in. Did not notice any loss of performance with a snug fit instead of cranked down fit. I often overtighten my bindings since I really like to have my boots snug where I don't get any gap between the boots and highbacks when I lean forward.

I think well fitting boots are the most important, so I personally would pick my setup based on boots first and bindings second. I don't think it is really worth it to chase boots to fit a pair of bindings. Typically, the 8.5 size boots have the same footprint as size 8 boots, so if your Mondo measurements work with size 8.5, that can be something to try. If your Mondo measurements don't really work with that sizing, I don't think it is worth it to sacrifice comfort and good fit.

If trying to downsize for medium binding, you probably want to look for brands that advertise reduced footprint boots. I know Burton boots have reduced footprint, but they don't fit me well. Adidas also does, but they stopped making boots. Here are two good lists of reduced footprint boots:








The Best Low Profile Snowboard Boots 2022-2023 | SP


The following is Snowboarding Profiles' list of what we consider to be the best low profile snowboard boot options currently on the market for 2022-2023.




snowboardingprofiles.com












5 Best Low Profile Snowboarding Boots to Get in 2023


Looking for a pair of low profile snowboarding boots? Make sure to read this updated review first in case you end up choosing the wrong one.




snowboardhow.com





Some measurements that may help you:
For my Adidas Acerra size 8 boots, the boot length toe to heel is 11 inches long. The foot bed of the Supermatic medium bindings fully extended is ~9 inches long. Maybe that will help you see if your size 9 Vans would work. My large Supermatics aren't with me right now, but can check on their footbed sizing later this week (I'll get their small and extended footbed settings so you can see the difference compared to the medium).

If the mediums don't work out, you can always get a new large Supermatics set-up next year, and I also saw someone selling a pair of new Supermatics on these forums as well.


----------



## kayate

money4me247 said:


> For my strap bindings, I also like to ride with them cranked down extremely tightly, but for the Nidecker bindings, they work fine with the straps just snuggly in place - it does not feel loose while riding. Still performs really well and feels good. The straps on the Nidecker bindings are held in place by the mid-strap, so once you get a really good fit, you don't need to worry about it again.
> 
> When I switched to the medium Nidecker bindings, I originally had the bindings so tight that I got some intermittent numbness/tingling in my foot and it was a bit harder to step-in. So I loosened it slightly, and it still performs really well, and much more comfy, and easier to step in. Did not notice any loss of performance with a snug fit instead of cranked down fit. I often overtighten my bindings since I really like to have my boots snug where I don't get any gap between the boots and highbacks when I lean forward.
> 
> I think well fitting boots are the most important, so I personally would pick my setup based on boots first and bindings second. I don't think it is really worth it to chase boots to fit a pair of bindings. Typically, the 8.5 size boots have the same footprint as size 8 boots, so if your Mondo measurements work with size 8.5, that can be something to try. If your Mondo measurements don't really work with that sizing, I don't think it is worth it to sacrifice comfort and good fit.
> 
> If trying to downsize for medium binding, you probably want to look for brands that advertise reduced footprint boots. I know Burton boots have reduced footprint, but they don't fit me well. Adidas also does, but they stopped making boots. Here are two good lists of reduced footprint boots:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Best Low Profile Snowboard Boots 2022-2023 | SP
> 
> 
> The following is Snowboarding Profiles' list of what we consider to be the best low profile snowboard boot options currently on the market for 2022-2023.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> snowboardingprofiles.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 5 Best Low Profile Snowboarding Boots to Get in 2023
> 
> 
> Looking for a pair of low profile snowboarding boots? Make sure to read this updated review first in case you end up choosing the wrong one.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> snowboardhow.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some measurements that may help you:
> For my Adidas Acerra size 8 boots, the boot length toe to heel is 11 inches long. The foot bed of the Supermatic medium bindings fully extended is ~9 inches long. Maybe that will help you see if your size 9 Vans would work. My large Supermatics aren't with me right now, but can check on their footbed sizing later this week (I'll get their small and extended footbed settings so you can see the difference compared to the medium).
> 
> If the mediums don't work out, you can always get a new large Supermatics set-up next year, and I also saw someone selling a pair of new Supermatics on these forums as well.


Wow that’s anmazing information! You definitely went above and beyond with answering my question. Thank you again, glad I found this forum. I’ll take a measurement of my boot tomorrow so I have a better estimate. I guess it wouldn’t hurt to just follow through with the order and see how it fits. To be honest my Van boots are quite comfortable, my only complaint would be sliding into them is a bit difficult as the shin/ankle area is a bit narrow. A lot of ppl seem to have this complaint. Once my foot slides in though, I can board the whole day without any fatigue or pain. Which is also why I’m a bit hesitant in switching boots, as I’ve only had this pair since I started snowboarding. I’ll keep you updated on the situation if you would like. Hopefully the store replies tomorrow and have experience with the various boot combinations with the nideckers. Thanks again you absolute legend!


----------



## robotfood99

Boot size/binding size has been exhaustively tested and published. Link to previous thread entry:









New automatic rear entry bindings from Nidecker


I've heard that too - the original idea wasn't to create ease of entry, but to improve performance. Source? I'm skeptical!




www.snowboardingforum.com


----------

