# Seeking Intermediate All Mountain Board



## FJB85 (Jan 10, 2016)

I've been riding a couple of seasons now and think it might be time to treat myself to a new deck. I moved to California 2.5 years ago after growing up in South Florida, so I caught the bug later in life than most (I'm 30 now). I started out on some discounted gear I picked up at a convention in LA back in 2013. I just bought the K2 Maysis boots and Union Force bindings after realizing the importance for quality on my feet - My old boots/bindings were entry level from Burton's 2012 line.

I have become very comfortable on blues, sometimes venturing into blacks. I can carve pretty well at this point and finally feel comfortable riding in most terrains - Riding in California, the terrain varies greatly depending on weather/location (Mammoth, Big Bear, etc.). I have started hitting some little natural jumps here and there, but would like to get more comfortable mainly with jumps and riding at higher speeds. The board I'm riding now has been certainly served its purpose in introducing me to snowboarding, but I want to get something a little more maneuverable that I can have some fun on, without sacrificing stability at higher speeds. I'm currently riding a 2012 Bataleon Goliath 157W. I would love to say that I will be riding rails, boxes, hitting crazy tricks, but I'm not sure how realistic that is for me. I'm much more interested in just becoming a better all-mountain rider, hitting some jumps, maintaining comfort at high speeds and possibly learning how to butter, so that I can maybe 180 or even 360 on jumps one day.

I am 6'2, 30 years old, approximately 190 lbs and wear a size 12 boot, which kind of forces me into a wide board. I understand that most of it depends on preference, but as I have only ridden the boarded that I started on (Bataleon Goliath 157W), I do not have experience with other boards to compare. Here are the list of boards that I've been looking at, but any other recommendations are certainly welcomed as I am not married to any of these. I've just recently started trying to better understand the technology and profiles offered by some of these companies, but it can still be overwhelming. 

Lib Tech Skate Banana - I've been told that this board is a fun ride, but I'm afraid I might lose stability at higher speeds and that is also more of a park-intended board. 

Capita Defender of Awesome - This board seems to be the most universally praised as an all mountain board. My only concern is that it may be designed for a more experienced rider, but not sure how valid of a concern that is. 

Capita Mercury (formerly Totally Fkn Awesome) - I think the profile of this board may be a little more carve-friendly, however with the flex rated slightly stiffer than the DOA, I'm afraid it may not be as playful/maneuverable. 

Rome Mod Rocker - This board seems to be a little more playful and I've read that it does well in all conditions, but everything I've read leads me to believe I may prefer a board with more camber. I believe this board has a flat-rocker profile. I'm also not sure of how good the turn initiation would be on this board in comparison to some of the others on this list. 

Burton Custom X - This board is on the list simply because it seems to have long-standing praise and recognition as all mountain board that excels in carving and jumps with reduced risk in catching edge. 

Never Summer Proto HD - I'm including this one mainly for the same reason that the Custom X is here. The Proto from NS seems to be pretty popular among all mountain riders and from what I've read, excels in a lot of the same areas as Burton's Custom X. 

I should disclose that I've read a decent amount on each of these boards, but what truly made me consider the Rome and Capitas was the Transworld Good Wood awards - Hopefully I dont catch too much heat for that. I'm not sure how credible of a source this is for reviews, but their methods for testing (18 different riders with diverse riding styles in various terrain) was appealing to me as the end result is not based one rider's opinion, nor is it presented by a company with market share in one specific brand (at least, not that I'm aware of). 

I see a lot of newer riders get torched in this forum, but I also see a lot of people give great advice. Hopefully, I'm on the right track here, but again, I'm open to any advice that more experienced riders here might have for me. Thanks!


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## Oldman (Mar 7, 2012)

First off, Welcome. 

Great to see that you have taken the time to look after your feet. You have the horse in front of the cart.

Now regarding your new deck considerations. Your size 12's indicate the need for a Mid wide to Wide.

However, you might be able to get on a regular width board depending on the board and your stance angle.

What you need to do at this point is get out there and DEMO as many boards as you can. You reside in an area that most certainly has demo days and you need to get out there and take advantage of the opportunity. 

Your reading and research has got you down to a list that "might" work for you, but you won't know for sure until you get out there and ride them for real. Many will chime in on their thoughts and preferences, but you need to ride the boards yourself to find what's right for you.


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## linvillegorge (Jul 6, 2009)

Good Wood is worthless, but you're looking at some good boards.

From your list, DOA if you want RCR, Proto if you want CRC.

Are you sure you want a true twin though? Unless you ride a lot of switch, you may be better off with a directional twin. In that case, sticking with Capita and NS, maybe consider the BSOD and The West. BSOD would be a better fit for you than the Mercury.


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## FJB85 (Jan 10, 2016)

Thank you both for your input. 

Oldman - Demoing these boards before buying would certainly be ideal. I've read on other threads here advice for finding demo days near me and will continue to keep an eye out for any upcoming events in SoCal.

linvillegorge - I was looking for twin mainly for versatility. I don't ride a lot of switch currently - I haven't really tried until this season. That is an area I'd like to improve in as well. I've seen the BSOD mentioned a number of times, but just figured that the DOA was sort of Capita's jack of all trades. I will do some more research on the BSOD and also on The West. Thank you for these suggestions. Any particular reason you think I should rule out the Mercury?


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## Phedder (Sep 13, 2014)

Add the Endeavor Live to your list, RCR directional twin, mid flex, 26.2ww at 161w. The BSOD as mentioned would be great too, 25.9ww at 162. Ride Berzerker 160w 25.9ww another option. All are camber dominant boards with rocker in the nose and tail for float and forgiveness, which fit your boot size well too.


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## AmberLamps (Feb 8, 2015)

Pock up a 2014 SnowTrooper and save some coin. Ypu can probably get one mew for 300 or used 250


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## Nolefan2011 (Mar 12, 2011)

Agree with Linville. Skip the twins unless you really want to ride switch a significant amount of time. Directional twins still allow the versatility of riding switch well, but still provide most of the benefits of a directional board. Also, consider dampening. Do you want a board that absorbs all terrain well, or do you want a lively board that you feel most of everything under your foot. Initially you might gravitate toward a damp board.

Good examples:

NS Ripsaw
Lib Tech Jamie Lynn
Ride Berzerker (not a directional twin anymore, but still a great board)

There are more, but off the top of my head, these boards will be very stable at speed, damp, and still allow you to ride switch. The Capita DOA is very lively, and it isn't the best board to eat chop. Proto gets mushy after time. Also very freestyle oriented. Skate Banana is pure freestyle and not a high speed charger (you can, because skill set can allow you to charge on almost anything eventually), and the Custom X is an aggressive charger with very little play. Built to mach and hit big hits. 

Other boards to consider:

Capita Supermacho (should be damp)
Arbor Coda (directional twin - fairly lively)
Jones Mountain Twin
K2 Turbo Dream
Ride Buck Up / Buck Wild - depending on whether you lean or stiffer
Salomon Man's Board
Yes Optimistic


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## Argo (Feb 25, 2010)

Check out capita NAS too. Directional twin that is camber.


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## jae (Nov 27, 2015)

I didn't see any demos on the calendar for bear/summit. Neversummer is having a rail event on feb 28th at mt high, might have boards to demo? details unknown. They did a demo on dec 6th. Mammoth is having a burton demo on 1/15-17. Call around shops around bear to rent demos.


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## linvillegorge (Jul 6, 2009)

FJB85 said:


> Thank you both for your input.
> 
> Oldman - Demoing these boards before buying would certainly be ideal. I've read on other threads here advice for finding demo days near me and will continue to keep an eye out for any upcoming events in SoCal.
> 
> linvillegorge - I was looking for directional twin mainly for versatility. I don't ride a lot of switch currently - I haven't really tried until this season. That is an area I'd like to improve in as well. I've seen the BSOD mentioned a number of times, but just figured that the DOA was sort of Capita's jack of all trades. I will do some more research on the BSOD and also on The West. Thank you for these suggestions. Any particular reason you think I should rule out the Mercury?


Looking at the specs of the Mercury, it looks like it's basically my old DBX 157 which was pretty much just a TFA with upgraded guys. Looks like when they ditched the TFA and made it the Mercury, they went with DBX guts. Good move. Should be a great board, but it'll be pretty stiff and aggressive and not for the faint of heart if it's what I think it is.


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## FJB85 (Jan 10, 2016)

I have also read that the Mercury replaced the TFA (apparently retailers complained about the name), but it is supposed to be a great board. 

I understand what is being said about considering a directional twin here, so I will not dismiss those recommendations. I do want to spend more time riding switch - I'm sure someone with experience can ride switch on any shape, but wouldn't a true twin be more appropriate for someone trying to learn/improve in this area?

Looks like the Ride Berzerker has been recommended here twice, so I will probably give that one an extra close look when looking at some of the other recommendations here. 

Still not sure that a directional twin is the direction I want to go. What are some of the advantages/disadvantages of going this route as opposed to true twin? Being that most of my riding is here in SoCal, I rarely ride in powder.


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## GDimac (Nov 19, 2015)

Being as someone who came from riding twins to currently having 2 directional boards, its relatively tougher to ride switch on the directionals. But like you mentioned, for the more experienced and advanced riders in switch, I imagine it's not as much work. It's still doable, just in my own personal exp with my current boards right now, its a lot more work especially if the nose is big like it is on my Burton Flight Attendant. I'm only looking to add one more board to my my current 2-board quiver, and it'll be a twin shape, as I do miss it sometimes lol.

But ya, it really depends on how much time and effort you will realistically be putting in to riding switch. And how often. Good luck in your search. 

PS. I also read that they changed the Capita Totally Fvckn Awesome to Mercury due to the nature of it's name lol.


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## FJB85 (Jan 10, 2016)

After considering some of whats been said here and also continuing to read about some of the models discussed, I'm really starting to lean more toward the NS Proto HDX. Compared to some of the others, it seems like this board is a little damper at high speeds, does good in uneven terrain and might be better at handling the mostly icy conditions I'm up against in Southern California. In the rare occasion I get up to Mammoth or out of state (Utah next month) for powder days, this board should do well in those conditions too. I've only really seen Never Summer discussed in forums like this - I guess they don't do much advertising, but I haven't found any bad reviews for this board. 

I think that this board will probably be a little more forgiving than some of the Capita boards that I've considered and I think it might be a little more maneuverable than my Goliath, assuming I get the sizing right. 

I could be completely wrong in my thinking here - I just never gave the NS boards much attention until now, so please let me know if I am way off. I appreciate all of the feedback I have gotten thus far.


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## Nolefan2011 (Mar 12, 2011)

FJB85 said:


> After considering some of whats been said here and also continuing to read about some of the models discussed, I'm really starting to lean more toward the NS Proto HDX. Compared to some of the others, it seems like this board is a little damper at high speeds, does good in uneven terrain and might be better at handling the mostly icy conditions I'm up against in Southern California. In the rare occasion I get up to Mammoth or out of state (Utah next month) for powder days, this board should do well in those conditions too. I've only really seen Never Summer discussed in forums like this - I guess they don't do much advertising, but I haven't found any bad reviews for this board.
> 
> I think that this board will probably be a little more forgiving than some of the Capita boards that I've considered and I think it might be a little more maneuverable than my Goliath, assuming I get the sizing right.
> 
> I could be completely wrong in my thinking here - I just never gave the NS boards much attention until now, so please let me know if I am way off. I appreciate all of the feedback I have gotten thus far.


I guess I missed your original post where you stated it, but for SoCal riding (Big Bear I assume), a Proto is a great board for anything that hill throws at you. Some of the boards I originally suggested would be overkill. My only warning is that a Proto goes to mush after about 40 days. Demo'd one twice. The first time was early season, only ridden a few times. Second time was end of season, beat up fairly good, and the board just lacked pop. The more I think about it, the Arbor Coda might be right up your alley. You just need to decide system camber or system rocker.


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

FJB85 said:


> After considering some of whats been said here and also continuing to read about some of the models discussed, I'm really starting to lean more toward the NS Proto HDX. Compared to some of the others, it seems like this board is a little damper at high speeds, does good in uneven terrain and might be better at handling the mostly icy conditions I'm up against in Southern California. In the rare occasion I get up to Mammoth or out of state (Utah next month) for powder days, this board should do well in those conditions too. I've only really seen Never Summer discussed in forums like this - I guess they don't do much advertising, but I haven't found any bad reviews for this board.
> 
> I think that this board will probably be a little more forgiving than some of the Capita boards that I've considered and I think it might be a little more maneuverable than my Goliath, assuming I get the sizing right.
> 
> I could be completely wrong in my thinking here - I just never gave the NS boards much attention until now, so please let me know if I am way off. I appreciate all of the feedback I have gotten thus far.





FJB85 said:


> Burton Custom X - This board is on the list simply because it seems to have long-standing praise and recognition as all mountain board that excels in carving and jumps with reduced risk in catching edge.
> 
> Never Summer Proto HD - I'm including this one mainly for the same reason that the Custom X is here. The Proto from NS seems to be pretty popular among all mountain riders and from what I've read, excels in a lot of the same areas as Burton's Custom X.


Absolutely not the case. 
The Custom X is a stiff, full camber all mountain charger with a definite increased risk of catching an edge. 
The Proto is a soft, heavy-rockered freestyle stick.

A closer comparison to the Proto would be the Burton Custom Flying V. But for your conditions (ice) and preferences (twinish, mild flex, decent at carving at standard speeds, jumps etc), the Burton Custom Camber would be an even better board for you. The Proto is not a board for speed, at all. NS Ripsaw would be a closer conparison to the Custom X.

Other options have been mentioned, so consider those as well....


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## FJB85 (Jan 10, 2016)

Maybe the Custom Flying V is the one Id read about. I didn't realize there were different variations of the Custom. This is the first time I've ever really shopped for a new board. I bought my first board because it was a good size for me and I could afford it. Shopping different options has certainly been an educational experience.

I've seen some reviews about the Proto softening up fast, but it seems to be more of just a general observation than a complaint. If it goes soft to the point where it might not be as functional at higher speeds, that would be a concern for me.

I'm going to take a look at the different Burton Custom options. Are there any other boards in this thread you feel might be a good fit for my circumstances, F1EA?

So far, what I'm attracted to most in the Proto is that it seems to be something I can have some fun with, but will also rise to the occasion in icy SoCal conditions.


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

FJB85 said:


> Maybe the Custom Flying V is the one Id read about. I didn't realize there were different variations of the Custom. This is the first time I've ever really shopped for a new board. I bought my first board because it was a good size for me and I could afford it. Shopping different options has certainly been an educational experience.
> 
> I've seen some reviews about the Proto softening up fast, but it seems to be more of just a general observation than a complaint. If it goes soft to the point where it might not be as functional at higher speeds, that would be a concern for me.
> 
> ...


Yeah, they have a bunch of different Custom. The FV is the one with rocker underfoot. Then they have a standard camber, then twin and directional.... Then the Custom X is the stiff/camber one. A bit too much really.

Not sure what's the story with Never summer losing the flex. I have never ridden one long enough to know this... Maybe a myth, maybe true ? I dont really know. I know Burton does something where they subject boards to a process so that the flex you get from the factory holds for a longer time.... sort of like pre-shrunk jeans...

All the boards in your original list are good, except maybe the mercury as it's a bit stiffer (and substituting the Custom X for the Custom non-X). Also many mentioned in the thread, but they all have different profiles, so this is what you need to more or less define (which profile you like best).


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## ryannorthcott (Dec 17, 2010)

The beauty of getting your second board is that you won't know the difference between it and anything else. 
K2 turbo dream will be a lot of fun 
Rome mod is what I have now. Definitely a sick board, would recommend that as well, more of something you could grow into as you get better.
Get a directional board unless you are going to commit to learning to ride switch well


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## FJB85 (Jan 10, 2016)

ryannorthcott said:


> The beauty of getting your second board is that you won't know the difference between it and anything else.
> K2 turbo dream will be a lot of fun
> Rome mod is what I have now. Definitely a sick board, would recommend that as well, more of something you could grow into as you get better.
> Get a directional board unless you are going to commit to learning to ride switch well



Touche... This is starting to feel like a gift AND a curse. Quite honestly, I just want to get something updated with a little more capability. The Goliath I've been riding has been good to me, but the time has come to try something new. I looked at the Turbo Dream, but I think the Custom Flying V or Proto HDX might hold up better in hard snow, which is 85% of my riding close to LA. 

I'm pretty sure I will have fun on either of these boards and more than anything, I just want to experience something new. I've pretty much narrowed my selection down to these two boards. Both have been around forever and their reputations have held up over time. 

Seems there are a lot of guys that prefer one very strongly to the other and for reasons unknown to me, Never Summer catches a lot of heat on this site, but the Proto seems like a perfect solution for me. The Custom Flying V seems a surefire solution too. I'm not in any rush to make a purchase - I will probably think on it for another week or so and continue to read up on both, but I am confident that Im going to end up with one of these two before the season is through.

Never Summer Proto HDX or Burton Custom Flying V?


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## Nolefan2011 (Mar 12, 2011)

The softening up isn't the issue. The board loses it's pop. That is an issue. I am telling you, demo'd one in March, and the board had zero pop. Just a mushy tail. I had demo'd one a year or two prior in the beginning of the year. Plenty of pop.


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## snowklinger (Aug 30, 2011)

Nolefan2011 said:


> The softening up isn't the issue. The board loses it's pop. That is an issue. I am telling you, demo'd one in March, and the board had zero pop. Just a mushy tail. I had demo'd one a year or two prior in the beginning of the year. Plenty of pop.


I'm not sure if you demoing a couple boards qualifies the authority of the statements you are making. I've put hundreds of days on Protos since the first one, one observation I would make right away is that the CT had noticeably more pop and rode more aggressively than the HD did, on the chance that those are the 2 being compared without noting the difference in models. The other thing I would say is that you don't know what that board that you call "mush" went through, you really don't have a baseline.

I'm not even defending NS, but I am questioning your staunch and strong positions after a couple demos a couple years apart.

I'll even admit that pop is not the strong suit of their classic Rocker Camber, and its gonna seem mushy compared to any board considered quite "poppy". 

I would posit that as a newer rider the OP will not even notice what you are talking about (all boards are gonna go through a "flex lifespan"). 

If I'm wrong, I'd be happy to hear more, you obviously have strong opinions from somewhere, I'm guessing its from experience, which I won't shit on on teh interwebz.

I'm old, I don't want "lively" in my knees and back from my snowboards, I do like that damp shit.


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## Nolefan2011 (Mar 12, 2011)

They were both CTs. First year, and maybe the 2nd year then? Haven't tried a Proto since they went HD. I own a T Rice pro. Have had it since 2012. Can't say I honestly have noticed the pop fade on that board. C2 which is basically the CRC from NS. 

I can say that the board just went to mush between one that had been fairly new, to one that had been ridden that season. By mush, I mean not only softening up, but also very difficult to generate much pop of lips, etc. That wasn't the case with other boards. I can't say that I have experienced that with other boards that I have owned for multiple seasons. Sure, they soften, but they don't go mushy. 

This isn't some new revelation though. I have seen a number of posters talk about the fact that these boards are super damp, but the downfall is that you lose all your spring after 30 days. Well, unless NS decided to build the worst board of all time outside of some worn out rentals, the 2nd Proto I rode a season later was complete mush. 

I have ridden a few Evos, and always wanted to purchase one, but having the fear that it would be dead after 25 days kept me from getting one, because they are really fun out of the box.


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## FJB85 (Jan 10, 2016)

The dampness of this board is what attracted me to it most. I'm just moving into intermediate range - This is really the first season where I've felt as comfortable as I do when riding. I figured, now is a good time for me to get something new. I think the Proto HDX or the Flying V would be a good way for me to advance and keep building on what I've learned so far.

There are so many boards out there - It's unrealistic for me to expect to find one that is the best in every class. Both of these boards seem to do fairly well in all areas though. Hopefully, I can put in some good time on this (Proto HDX or Custom Flying V), see which aspects I enjoy or want more of and then pick up something more specific next season if I want to.


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## snowklinger (Aug 30, 2011)

*we fanbois call it "surfy"*



Nolefan2011 said:


> They were both CTs. First year, and maybe the 2nd year then? Haven't tried a Proto since they went HD. I own a T Rice pro. Have had it since 2012. Can't say I honestly have noticed the pop fade on that board. C2 which is basically the CRC from NS.
> 
> I can say that the board just went to mush between one that had been fairly new, to one that had been ridden that season. By mush, I mean not only softening up, but also very difficult to generate much pop of lips, etc. That wasn't the case with other boards. I can't say that I have experienced that with other boards that I have owned for multiple seasons. Sure, they soften, but they don't go mushy.
> 
> ...


I just have a problem with the statement in bold, but I'm not trying to get into an internet argument(obviously I am, but I'm keepin it cool and heady bruh). I'm trying to point out that you are making blanket statements that you can't logically qualify, but maybe I'm reaching here.

I'm simply suggesting that you take your personal impressions and skill level, and try to gauge that against the rest of what you don't know, the boards you haven't ridden, the people who know more and shred more(there are plenty in both camps), and then consider your "opinion".

If theres one thing i'm sure of 99.9% of all snowboarder are better and smarter on the internet, including me.

Heres my point in a nutshell:

"All NS go to mush and lose all their spring and go completely dead in 30 days" (lets do hyperbole counting fun!)

Some spring, ok.

"Completely Dead" lolwut. I got tons of days boosting of my little Proto after day 100. More dead? Dead-ish? Ok sure.

How many of their boards have u ridden for how many days? 

Its just not right for some other poster to read what you say about these things and assume you know, when you simply have some kind of experience which we can't qualify.

My point has more to do with logical fallacy and the fact that people will outright be misled by what you are saying.

You may not be wrong, but your statements are not "right" either.

FWIW: I'm perfectly willing to have a candid and critical discussion about any snowboard gear, I'm simply well positioned to ride a bunch of NS boards and have not had the opportunity to ride as many others. The only people who I've heard speak the way you speak about NS had huge personal issues with NS (there are and were several on this forum, which I'm sure you read), which in my opinion negated whatever they had to say about the equipment. There is no question that they make some of the dampest boards in the industry and by comparison others will feel "lively". When that becomes "all NS die in less than a month", I call bs.

I do appreciate the more on points about "resin" but not sure where the facts are coming from.

How many days on that '12 Trice?


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## linvillegorge (Jul 6, 2009)

Yeah, I've put well over 30 days on numerous NS boards and never had an issue with any of them losing any pop or going soft. Now, if you're talking 100+ days? Yeah, probably. At some point any board is gonna start softening up and losing pop, but it ain't gonna be after no 30 days.


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## snowklinger (Aug 30, 2011)

*shred rocks*



FJB85 said:


> The dampness of this board is what attracted me to it most. I'm just moving into intermediate range - This is really the first season where I've felt as comfortable as I do when riding. I figured, now is a good time for me to get something new. I think the Proto HDX or the Flying V would be a good way for me to advance and keep building on what I've learned so far.
> 
> There are so many boards out there - It's unrealistic for me to expect to find one that is the best in every class. Both of these boards seem to do fairly well in all areas though. Hopefully, I can put in some good time on this (Proto HDX or Custom Flying V), see which aspects I enjoy or want more of and then pick up something more specific next season if I want to.


Even more important than the perfect board, is that whatever board you choose, you take it out and ride it like you stole it until it needs to be left in a gutter so you can go get something new.


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## SGboarder (Jun 24, 2012)

F1EA said:


> Absolutely not the case.
> The Custom X is a stiff, full camber all mountain charger with a definite increased risk of catching an edge.
> The Proto is a soft, heavy-rockered freestyle stick.
> 
> ...


Agree with that. 



FJB85 said:


> The dampness of this board is what attracted me to it most. I'm just moving into intermediate range - This is really the first season where I've felt as comfortable as I do when riding. I figured, now is a good time for me to get something new. I think the Proto HDX or the Flying V would be a good way for me to advance and keep building on what I've learned so far.
> 
> There are so many boards out there - It's unrealistic for me to expect to find one that is the best in every class. Both of these boards seem to do fairly well in all areas though. Hopefully, I can put in some good time on this (Proto HDX or Custom Flying V), see which aspects I enjoy or want more of and then pick up something more specific next season if I want to.


Neither of those two boards is damp (the Burton maybe a little) or good for high-speed on hard snow.
Both great boards, but both really poor matches for what you are describing.


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## SGboarder (Jun 24, 2012)

linvillegorge said:


> Yeah, I've put well over 30 days on numerous NS boards and never had an issue with any of them losing any pop or going soft. Now, if you're talking 100+ days? Yeah, probably. At some point any board is gonna start softening up and losing pop, but it ain't gonna be after no 30 days.


My Cobra is so soft after 30 days on it that it's almost exclusively a butter and jib-stick...


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## ItchEtrigR (Jan 1, 2012)

SGboarder said:


> My Cobra is so soft after 30 days on it that it's almost exclusively a butter and jib-stick...


I would have got it warrantied, you'd have no trouble proving manufacturer error if that was the case.


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## Nolefan2011 (Mar 12, 2011)

snowklinger said:


> I just have a problem with the statement in bold, but I'm not trying to get into an internet argument(obviously I am, but I'm keepin it cool and heady bruh). I'm trying to point out that you are making blanket statements that you can't logically qualify, but maybe I'm reaching here.
> 
> I'm simply suggesting that you take your personal impressions and skill level, and try to gauge that against the rest of what you don't know, the boards you haven't ridden, the people who know more and shred more(there are plenty in both camps), and then consider your "opinion".
> 
> ...


I have a really hard time responding to this based on the fact that you threw out so many contradicting and false assumptions it's ridiculous.

1) I never said all NS boards. I said the Proto. Was actually pretty clear about that. Followed up by saying I really enjoyed my time on the Evo, but was afraid to purchase as I didn't want it to turn to mush like that Proto.

I've made generalizations on this board about NS dampness (briefly owned a Heritage - just didn't enjoy it, ridden an SL, Evo)

2) You just came out and said you aren't privy to many other boards, but have the opportunity to ride NS. You have automatically disqualified yourself from this discussion by the sheer fact that you have nothing to compare it to. 

Prime example. Sitting here and telling people that Rice Krispies don't get that mushy in milk because you have eaten a lot of Rice Krispies - yet never really tried Frosted Flakes, Coco Puffs, and Shredded Wheat doesn't make you an expert or even fully capable of responding to someone wanting to know what cereal does relative to others. 

Extreme example, but you see where I am going. I currently own a BSOD, T Rice. Had a Smokin Team Series, Capita UltraFear, NS Heritage, Arbor Westmark, Yes Optimistic, Yes Greats. Demo'd and ridden an additional 20 boards or so from different brands - mainly because I love trying and riding different boards.

By you stating you aren't that privy to other brands, and haven't tried much, you can describe a NS - but your relative understanding of mushy only pertains to NS. My question is relative to what. I gave an honest assessment, based on other boards I have spent significant time with. I personally feel the relative pop on a DOA or Greats dwarfs anything you'll experience on a similar board in a Proto, and it's not even close. You have to ride them to understand the difference. I've ridden a friends K2 Fastplant. At around day 50, that board had more snap than a Proto had to begin with.

The NS boards I have ridden, in my experience, which again, I have been very transparent about, are very damp snowboards. But they break in much more than other boards, and the pop, even out of the box, is less relative to boards from many other companies. 

I've ridden the T Rice probably 65 days or so? I would imagine that Proto, a board that I rode in a late Feb, probably had been on the mountain about the same amount of days. Nov, Dec, Jan, Feb. 120 days. Let's assume it's out every other day. Call it 60 days or so.

3) It sounds like you are the one having an issue with anyone being overly critical of something from NS, and determined that because certain reviewers on this site took issue with the practices of NS execs loaning out boards as a marketing strategy, it must mean they are biased and can't objectively review a NS.

When in reality, they have miles more experience with boards than you have - based on your self admission that you really only ride NS. 

Maybe, just maybe, you have the bias and are going to defend the company you love, and have come up with excuses that anyone with some negative feedback toward NS must be grouped with that portion of the community - to which you have formed your own conclusion as to why they didn't like NS.

Well, I can tell you honestly, that I personally don't care about NS the company. I care about the snowboard, and how it feels. And having spent as much time as I have with many different snowboard companies, am fairly confident to say that my experience with that Proto was so disappointing, especially in comparison to how other boards have held up. 

Not trying to start an internet war either, but it's really strange to have someone question what someone felt, when they themselves admit they don't ride much outside of NS.


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## FJB85 (Jan 10, 2016)

I considered The Greats by Yes too. Anyone here have anything to say about the Custom Flying V?


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## SGboarder (Jun 24, 2012)

ItchEtrigR said:


> I would have got it warrantied, you'd have no trouble proving manufacturer error if that was the case.


Nah, it is inherent in the NS manufacturing process that the boards will get considerably softer as they break-in. It is just what it is.


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## Nolefan2011 (Mar 12, 2011)

One more comment about NS as it relates to C2 boards from the Lib Tech line. I've spent extensive time on a T Rice and Jamie Lynn, and maybe a couple days on a TRS.

I have also found NS to be very plank like in general. I never found a way to put this in words, but thinking about it based on this discussion, NS' have a very distinct on the snow feel. For whatever reason, outside of being super damp, you can feel the transitions between the rocker and camber the minute you step on the board. As you ride them, they still are noticeable from where the rocker ends, to where th camber begins. It's likes the pieces were drilled in with bolts and the sections are distinct.

On a Lib Tech C2 board, the transitions blend smoothly, and when you ride, you don't notice the boards contours, but as you come in and out of the carve, the board moves like one piece.

I had someone once say the difference between driving a Ferrari and a Corvette, is that the Ferrari feels like one piece of metal moving together, while a Vette feels the individual parts through a tight turn.

That is how I could sum up CRC vs C2. C2 just feels smooth, and the tech works and pops, but you don't feel the exhageration individual zones. Some might like that. To each their own. But there was a drastic difference in how a Jamie Lynn felt and a Heritage. This why the Heritage was out for me.


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## SGboarder (Jun 24, 2012)

Nolefan2011 said:


> One more comment about NS as it relates to C2 boards from the Lib Tech line. I've spent extensive time on a T Rice and Jamie Lynn, and maybe a couple days on a TRS.
> 
> I have also found NS to be very plank like in general. I never found a way to put this in words, but thinking about it based on this discussion, NS' have a very distinct on the snow feel. For whatever reason, outside of being super damp, you can feel the transitions between the rocker and camber the minute you step on the board. As you ride them, they still are noticeable from where the rocker ends, to where th camber begins. It's likes the pieces were drilled in with bolts and the sections are distinct.
> 
> ...


Never observed that with any of my NS decks. Yes, the rocker section is very noticeable in the original profile simply because there is a lot of rocker, I guess. Also the camber sections really kick in when achieving a certain edge angle, so that could feel a bit sudden if you are not used to (again, more for the original CRC profile and boards with longer edge ratio, I suspect). But never felt less like one integrated unit than any other boards.


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## snowklinger (Aug 30, 2011)

Nolefan2011 said:


> I have a really hard time responding to this based on the fact that you threw out so many contradicting and false assumptions it's ridiculous.
> 
> 1) I never said all NS boards. I said the Proto. Was actually pretty clear about that. Followed up by saying I really enjoyed my time on the Evo, but was afraid to purchase as I didn't want it to turn to mush like that Proto.
> 
> ...


No worries. >

I was trying to be a bit rediculous with my "quote"


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

FJB85 said:


> I considered The Greats by Yes too. Anyone here have anything to say about the Custom Flying V?


Good discussion here.

I love Fruit Loops.

Yes Greats vs Proto is almost no comparison. Greats crushes the Proto in about any way I can think of. Except maybe the floaty "feeling", which does not necessarily translate to float. But you didnt bring up the Greats at any point, so i bet people simply ignored it just to avoid adding confusion with even more boards..... it's also a better board than the Custom FV.

Custom FV is a good board. Custom camber would probably be a better match for you; but if you want the extra forgiveness of the FV then yeah Custom FV is a quality and pretty reasonable board. But at that point (hybrid camber) there's plenty more boards to consider as well. Really, it depends on what sort of ride/qualities you are looking for...


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## FJB85 (Jan 10, 2016)

F1EA said:


> Good discussion here.
> 
> I love Fruit Loops.
> 
> ...


I mentioned The Greats in response to one of Nolefan's posts on here. It was something I looked at early in the process, but ruled it out before I even started this thread. Seems to be just as many good reviews on both the FV and the Proto... Still not sure on which one, but will surely end up with one of these two. I thought I would hear more commentary on the FV from some other people on here.


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## scotty100 (Apr 3, 2012)

^Demo a bunch of different profiles if you can and go from there. Otherwise comparing the likes of the proto to the greats to the custom x is pretty much pointless as they are so different to each other.

Once you know what you like in profile go from there. At that point add Flow, K2, Jones, Arbor and Smokin to your list for consideration.

Finally - lots of opinions on what brand is best on here. NS gets a lot of love and some hate...same with Lib...some love em many others think they are the most over-priced pieces of shit out there...it is what it is...!


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

scotty100 said:


> ^Demo a bunch of different profiles if you can and go from there. Otherwise comparing the likes of the proto to the greats to the custom x is pretty much pointless as they are so different to each other.
> 
> Once you know what you like in profile go from there. At that point add Flow, K2, Jones, Arbor and Smokin to your list for consideration.


Yup. Not all boards are exactly comparable. 99% the solution is what board is best for a specific person/condiions/preferences etc, rather than wht board is all out best.



scotty100 said:


> Finally - lots of opinions on what brand is best on here. NS gets a lot of love and some hate...same with Lib...some love em many others think they are the most over-priced pieces of shit out there...it is what it is...!


hmm this sounds innnacurate. For example, NS has not received any hate in this thread at all.

Out of 6or so people commenting... 2 defend it (they are both from Colorado); 2 don't like them - can't go on calling that hate. Nolefan and SG both had/have NS and did not like them for various reasons. Others recommended something else which were all valid options. Seems fair to me.

Personally, i think the OP already knows what he wants, but seems he needs some sort of validation. But thats just speculation because i dont know the OP - first time poster. In fact, for all i know this may just be some marketting excercise.


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## FJB85 (Jan 10, 2016)

F1EA said:


> Yup. Not all boards are exactly comparable. 99% the solution is what board is best for a specific person/condiions/preferences etc, rather than wht board is all out best.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Ha... Admittedly, you are pretty spot on. This is my first time reading into board options so much and it is a little overwhelming, but I'm pretty set on what I want at this point. Perhaps I have been looking for someone to validate my decision, but it doesnt really matter.


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## jdang307 (Feb 6, 2011)

The Proto HD will get soft. After 10 days or so mine broke in and it got pretty soft. I just sold mine. It's not as damp as other NS boards (the SL was noticeably damper). 

You really need to decide which camber profile you like. So far I love the NS CRC. I keep going back to it, and when I do, it feels the best to me. I'm currently on a K2 Happy Hour, lifted camber. Not in love with it. 

I think the Never Summer West is on my watch list.


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

FJB85 said:


> Ha... Admittedly, you are pretty spot on. This is my first time reading into board options so much and it is a little overwhelming, but I'm pretty set on what I want at this point. Perhaps I have been looking for someone to validate my decision, but it doesnt really matter.


I'm probably older than you  take it from me and follow your heart hehehe get whatever you want; if you end up hating it, it's your lesson to learn. If all works out, you'll be happy. Win-win.


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## SGboarder (Jun 24, 2012)

F1EA said:


> Nolefan and SG both had/have NS and did not like them for various reasons.


Actually I did not dislike my NS. I just meant to point out some of the limitations (every board/company has some) from my experience.

I still love my Cobra even now it is soft and has chunks of topsheet missing from lift incidents. It just gone from my resort powder/tree deck to jib/butter board.


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

SGboarder said:


> Actually I did not dislike my NS. I just meant to point out some of the limitations (every board/company has some) from my experience.
> 
> I still love my Cobra even now it is soft and has chunks of topsheet missing from lift incidents. It just gone from my resort powder/tree deck to jib/butter board.


Ah there you go. Even less hate. hehehe

I just remembered... I actually did a review on the Custom FV a while back  http://www.snowboardingforum.com/burton/136897-demo-review-burton-custom-flying-v.html

Compared to the NS boards i have ridden, i think i'd choose the FV over the Proto and Cobra for sure. The West maybe, it's a bit closer but all these NS i've ridden were new-ish vs the Custom FV which was a demo board. If the NS get that much softer and lose pop then i guess the West would lose its charm. I really liked the flex of the Custom. Also handled chop much better than Cobra and Proto which bounce you around so much (again, the Cobra and Proto were new so tey were still pretty springy). The three NS were nicer and more lively into and out of turns. I like that about them, also they have a bit more edge hold than FV (longer eff edge).

I guess my problem with the CRC in Proto and Cobra is that it has too much rocker. The Custom FV feels equally floaty and maneouverable without that feel of having so much rocker underfoot. The West was better in this regard. But i would choose neither over a good RCR board. The FV had excellent flex, but it wasn't great for speed either.

Also... This is all just my opinion. I dont sell (nor care to) boards for a living. And neither Burton or NS need me to sell boards.


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## scotty100 (Apr 3, 2012)

For me the custom FV is stiffer underfoot than the proto or previous cobra model but lacks the edge hold NS offers. Especially on hardpack. Also I've never been a fan of burtons take on CRC - my experience was the opposite actually...The custom FV rocker was way too pronounced and the NS was more stable. However I do think burton tweaked the latest FV rocker and improved it in the process...I've yet to try it.

Agree that for stability RCR wins for me too. But then again I ride my greats for different purposes than I did the NS boards I've owned.


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

scotty100 said:


> For me the custom FV is stiffer underfoot than the proto or previous cobra model but lacks the edge hold NS offers. Especially on hardpack. Also I've never been a fan of burtons take on CRC - my experience was the opposite actually...The custom FV rocker was way too pronounced and the NS was more stable. However I do think burton tweaked the latest FV rocker and improved it in the process...I've yet to try it.
> 
> Agree that for stability RCR wins for me too. But then again I ride my greats for different purposes than I did the NS boards I've owned.


Yep, agree with everything except the rocker thing. The original RC feels very rockered, FV feels floaty when riding, but you dont feel so much of the localized rocker zones. Probably because FV dostributes the rocker along the board, while the RC puts it all in the middle... 

But yeah, Custom is stiffer than those NS. Which puts it right at mid flex. Proto is softer than mid. Cobra is maybe equally soft, but feels a little stiffer because of the shape.


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## GDimac (Nov 19, 2015)

scotty100 said:


> Agree that for stability RCR wins for me too. But then again I ride my greats for different purposes than I did the NS boards I've owned.





F1EA said:


> I guess my problem with the CRC in Proto and Cobra is that it has too much rocker. The Custom FV feels equally floaty and maneouverable without that feel of having so much rocker underfoot. The West was better in this regard. But i would choose neither over a good RCR board. The FV had excellent flex, but it wasn't great for speed either.
> 
> Also... This is all just my opinion. I dont sell (nor care to) boards for a living. And neither Burton or NS need me to sell boards.



Yup, I too second that opinion. I also prefer camber/camber dominant boards. Just feels relatively more stable at speed and on jumps. 

My Mullair is the first board I've owned and ridden that has rocker in middle, tho mellower than reg C-R-C boards from my understanding; it still felt a little odd to me in the beginning. But with time, it grew on me and love my Mullair as much as my FA, which has an aggressive camber profile.


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## FJB85 (Jan 10, 2016)

scotty100 said:


> For me the custom FV is stiffer underfoot than the proto or previous cobra model but lacks the edge hold NS offers. Especially on hardpack. Also I've never been a fan of burtons take on CRC - my experience was the opposite actually...The custom FV rocker was way too pronounced and the NS was more stable. However I do think burton tweaked the latest FV rocker and improved it in the process...I've yet to try it.
> 
> Agree that for stability RCR wins for me too. But then again I ride my greats for different purposes than I did the NS boards I've owned.



Because my Bataleon is the only board I've ever owned, all I know is TBT, so I'm not really sure if I'd prefer CRC over RCR or vice versa. When I first started shopping boards, I looked at the Greats and, at one point, was set on it, but then realized that I couldn't find it in a wide size - With a size 12 boot, I kind of ruled it out and just concluded it might not be in the cards for me. 

I've been pretty set on the Proto HD, although I have also looked at the Yes Typo. The Typo is RCR whereas the Proto is CRC, but I have zero experience on either profile. I'm probably going to end up with the Proto, so at least I will develop a sense for CRC... I can always try an RCR profile next time.


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## Nolefan2011 (Mar 12, 2011)

F1EA said:


> Ah there you go. Even less hate. hehehe
> 
> I just remembered... I actually did a review on the Custom FV a while back  http://www.snowboardingforum.com/burton/136897-demo-review-burton-custom-flying-v.html
> 
> ...


You verbalized what I was trying to say earlier with regard to the parts feeling like separate areas of the board, versus flowing together. I believe that had a lot to do with the pronounced rocker.


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## scotty100 (Apr 3, 2012)

^I have to respectfully disagree with that. NS original RC rocker profile is well balanced and in proportion compared to what I experienced with lib, Burton's FV custom, Rome's take on CRC etc. In fact my time on CRC boards by those 3 brands convinced me to check out RCR and I ended up with the greats and have loved riding it. To me, the older custom FV profile felt like a freekin beach ball between the feet, squirrely as fuck with shitty edge hold. Ditto the lib bananas I've tried. Granted I've heard Burton has improved their rocker on the custom so I would think it's completely different now. Lib, I don't know or care. Never got on with them and imo they are horrendously over-priced for what you get.


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## GDimac (Nov 19, 2015)

scotty100 said:


> ^I have to respectfully disagree with that. NS original RC rocker profile is well balanced and in proportion compared to what I experienced with lib, Burton's FV custom, Rome's take on CRC etc. In fact my time on CRC boards by those 3 brands convinced me to check out RCR and I ended up with the greats and have loved riding it. To me, the older custom FV profile felt like a freekin beach ball between the feet, squirrely as fuck with shitty edge hold. Ditto the lib bananas I've tried. Granted I've heard Burton has improved their rocker on the custom so I would think it's completely different now. Lib, I don't know or care. Never got on with them and imo they are horrendously over-priced for what you get.



Ya, the Greats is an amazing ride. And ya, I find with my Mullair it can have moments of squirellyness (lol) when I'm lazy with my technique and going at slower speeds (I notice this most when on boxes etc). In a way keeps me honest in my riding and like mentioned before, have grown to love it. 

But cos of this, I know all the more now to stick with camber dominant boards for future boards. But again, to each their own.

And OP, Typo is a well reviewed board and I've ridden it also. I would argue to consider that still. Loll, my bad if it doesn't help with your dilemma.


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

Nolefan2011 said:


> You verbalized what I was trying to say earlier with regard to the parts feeling like separate areas of the board, versus flowing together. I believe that had a lot to do with the pronounced rocker.


Ah. Maybe. I guess it makes sense, since heavy mid rocker and camber outside is 3 parts which actually rock tip-tail. Havent tried C2, but if it rocks less than the NS rockercamber then it should feel more like 1 unit.

I cant believe people still argue the heavy rocker CRC is not squirelly. Set it on a flat surface... are both contact points making contact? NO. You gotta balance the contact points yourself to have even contact grip. This grip will change depending where your weight is, in fact, the nose/tail contacts are only in contact when you are pressing on them. The minute you deweight or stop applying force.... the contact moves off the ground. That's what makes them lively... which by definition can not be stable. This is not necessarily a "bad" thing; it's just a specific behaviour.

Set a full camber, flat or a RCR board on a flat surface. Even a Custom FV.... the contacts may not be fully touching the ground on a RCR, but the lift is even and balanced. It is equally distributed... ie the contact length is naturally balanced. Move your weight around without excessive force.... the board stays balanced.

Still... I cant belive people make this argument. Even NS is going to LESS rocker with the new ripsaw camber, which im pretty sure will replace the original heavy rocker on most their al mtn boards. I havent seen a single heavy rocker pro model in a long time... and almost all brands except maye 2-3 are not doing the heavy rocker middle section. Arbor... has just introduced "camber system". I wonder why. 



scotty100 said:


> Lib... Never got on with them and imo they are horrendously over-priced for what you get.


Ironically... the only Lib boards costier than NS are the few superpro/HP/Gold whatever special tech boards. Normal, run off the mill boards... NS cost more:

http://boardroomshop.com/store/filt...ever-Summer/b_Lib-Tech/?sort=price&order=DESC



GDimac said:


> And OP, Typo is a well reviewed board and I've ridden it also. I would argue to consider that still. Loll, my bad if it doesn't help with your dilemma.


OP is gettig a Proto since page 1 or 2 in this thread.


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## GDimac (Nov 19, 2015)

Lolll was worth the effort


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## ItchEtrigR (Jan 1, 2012)

F1EA said:


> Ah. Maybe. I guess it makes sense, since heavy mid rocker and camber outside is 3 parts which actually rock tip-tail. Havent tried C2, but if it rocks less than the NS rockercamber then it should feel more like 1 unit.
> 
> I cant believe people still argue the heavy rocker CRC is not squirelly. Set it on a flat surface... are both contact points making contact? NO. You gotta balance the contact points yourself to have even contact grip. This grip will change depending where your weight is, in fact, the nose/tail contacts are only in contact when you are pressing on them. The minute you deweight or stop applying force.... the contact moves off the ground. That's what makes them lively... which by definition can not be stable. This is not necessarily a "bad" thing; it's just a specific behaviour.
> 
> ...


A lot of good points, and you do a fine job explaining it. 

Squirrelyness I agree, it's just the least superior profile if your looking for a stable ride. The effortless raising of those contacts with a slight amount of weight shift is what makes it lively, agile and when your technique is not all there unstable.

If your looking for an easier neutral ride a RCR or flat is the way to go, as it's running length doesn't change as easy according to how your weighted. On a CRC if your leaning slightly back your gonna raise those front contact points, your least likely to enjoy the the ride.


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## Funkfish (Apr 3, 2015)

Not to muddy the waters even more but, I'm almost the exact same height, weight and skill level as you are. I picked up a Lib-Tech TRS and it really changed my riding. Its an all mountain board that rips (its even in the name) It has an XC2 camber profile (it has a little bit more pronounced camber than Lib's C2 profile for a bit more edge hold) 

Also since you're riding in some icy spots definitely check out a board that has an edge traction technology. Mervin (Lib/Gnu etc)'s Magna Traction is one of the better ones. Also the TRS has been a good wood board many times. People may say Goodwood is worthless but if you look at snowboard review trends you generally see the same boards popping up. The TRS is one of those boards. 

Another similar alternative could be a Gnu Riders Choice or Space Case. 

In the end get out and demo as many boards as possible.


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## FJB85 (Jan 10, 2016)

GDimac said:


> And OP, Typo is a well reviewed board and I've ridden it also. I would argue to consider that still. Loll, my bad if it doesn't help with your dilemma.


Ha... Certainly doesn't help, but you are not doing anything to me that I haven't been doing to myself all week. I've scoured SoCal trying to find a shop that carries the Typo, but to no avail. I've come across a Proto HDX or two, but none in my size (158), so I will need to order online regardless. Also, doesn't help my dilemma that the Typo is $150+ cheaper with zero bad reviews.



F1EA said:


> OP is gettig a Proto since page 1 or 2 in this thread.


You're probably right even I haven't realized it myself yet. I gave the Greats a lot of consideration, but they don't make them in wide sizes so I had to rule it out. I keep looking at other boards, but always come back to the Proto HDX - Something about it feels like a safe route to me... not sure why. I am really interested in the YES boards - I'll probably cop the Proto and look at YES again next season, but I wouldn't be surprised if I said fuck it at 2 am one night this weekend and ordered a Typo, especially now that I've realized I will need to order online regardless. I'm under no obligation to make any sense.


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## AmberLamps (Feb 8, 2015)

I 2nd a vote for Lib TRS, very powerful yet playful board, at least the 2013 model I have is. Magna traction is the joint, can dig a trench in ice, board has gr8 pop, and very pressable. I find my selfe grabbing this deck more days than others throughout the season.


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## Snowbeard (Mar 6, 2012)

I'd recommend the K2 Raygun or Arbor Coda. Both are solid, all-mountain boards with plenty of stability and control, but they'll also allow you to explore your freestyle yearnings, however small they are. Just my 2 cents.


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## scotty100 (Apr 3, 2012)

scotty100 said:


> Lib, I don't know or care. Never got on with them and imo they are horrendously over-priced for what you get.





F1EA said:


> Ironically... the only Lib boards costier than NS are the few superpro/HP/Gold whatever special tech boards. Normal, run off the mill boards... NS cost more:
> 
> Filtered Search - The Boardroom


I did not say NS was cheaper or more expensive than Lib. I said I never got on with Lib and that imo they are overpriced for what you get. Their quality and durability issues are well documented on the forum. In my experience, NS pisses all over Lib. Just my two cents. And for the record I currently ride a Greats and a Burton Barracuda! 0


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## AmberLamps (Feb 8, 2015)

I am a huge NS fanboy, and I agree Lib may not be the quality of NS, but they still make gr8 boards, and if your not a complete tard they will last a long time. Or if your like me you buy used or demo decks and use one or 2 seasons and sell it and buy something something else. I got a brand new SnowTrooper last year for $300 and a Lib TRS demo 2013/14 for $120 (looks brand new). Also just picked up a FunSlinger brand new for $200. You can find these decks for super discount if your in the right area.


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

FJB85 said:


> Ha... Certainly doesn't help, but you are not doing anything to me that I haven't been doing to myself all week. I've scoured SoCal trying to find a shop that carries the Typo, but to no avail. I've come across a Proto HDX or two, but none in my size (158), so I will need to order online regardless. Also, doesn't help my dilemma that the Typo is $150+ cheaper with zero bad reviews.
> 
> 
> You're probably right even I haven't realized it myself yet. I gave the Greats a lot of consideration, but they don't make them in wide sizes so I had to rule it out. I keep looking at other boards, but always come back to the Proto HDX - Something about it feels like a safe route to me... not sure why. I am really interested in the YES boards - I'll probably cop the Proto and look at YES again next season, but I wouldn't be surprised if I said fuck it at 2 am one night this weekend and ordered a Typo, especially now that I've realized I will need to order online regardless. I'm under no obligation to make any sense.


hehehe yeah, when you're sort of undecided and not certain which profile you want... the possibilities are pretty much endless...... it is tough. 



scotty100 said:


> I did not say NS was cheaper or more expensive than Lib. I said I never got on with Lib and that imo they are overpriced for what you get. Their quality and durability issues are well documented on the forum. In my experience, NS pisses all over Lib. Just my two cents. And for the record I currently ride a Greats and a Burton Barracuda! 0


Well... If Lib are overpriced, and NS are more expensive than Lib... what does that make NS?

I wouldnt say NS shits over Lib's quality. In my opinion, pretty much all the brands are of approximate equal quality. A few exceptions are slightly above and below.... but for the most, it's almost the same.

Ahhh Greats and Barracuda... That's a quiver in itself


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## Nolefan2011 (Mar 12, 2011)

F1EA said:


> hehehe yeah, when you're sort of undecided and not certain which profile you want... the possibilities are pretty much endless...... it is tough.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yeah, that was a joke about Lib Tech. Their bases are bomb proof. I have 65 days at least on my T Rice, and it's held up better than ANY other brand of board I've had. Easily.


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## AmberLamps (Feb 8, 2015)

I 2nd that, Lib may not do full edge wrap or expensive top sheet, but base are rock sollid. Ive beat the shit out of mine and its barly scratched.


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## FJB85 (Jan 10, 2016)

F1EA said:


> hehehe yeah, when you're sort of undecided and not certain which profile you want... the possibilities are pretty much endless...... it is tough.


Proto is on the way. Next season, I will just have to let you hold my credit card - Probably would have saved me a lot of time and agony.


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## AmberLamps (Feb 8, 2015)

You will love the Proto, one of the most versatile decks out there.


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## scotty100 (Apr 3, 2012)

F1EA said:


> Well... If Lib are overpriced, and NS are more expensive than Lib... what does that make NS?


It makes NS pricing more appropriate because NS quality is 2x Lib quality. Also, NS is not more expensive.



F1EA said:


> I wouldnt say NS shits over Lib's quality. In my opinion, pretty much all the brands are of approximate equal quality. A few exceptions are slightly above and below.... but for the most, it's almost the same.


700 bucks for the birdman, banana magic, skunk ape, trice pro hp, a grand for the splits...hoo hoo...what a fucking joke! The biggest fucking rip off in snowboarding...anyone who pays full price for these pieces of shit deserves everything they get...which is not a fucking lot...!!!



F1EA said:


> Ahhh Greats and Barracuda... That's a quiver in itself


Best. Quiver. Ever. :grin:


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## scotty100 (Apr 3, 2012)

$666.00 for the dark knife!! Why?! Because some asshole thought it'd be a laugh to see if any asshole would actually spend 666 for the "devil" of all boards!! Lib tech make me fucking puke. 

Have a laugh at the latest pricing...edge wrap not included. That's extra. Lol.

http://www.lib-tech.com/snowboards/


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## AmberLamps (Feb 8, 2015)

Anyone who buys a brand new board at retail is an idiot. Juat let some other sucker buy it and then buy it off them on craigslist for $200 less 6 months later. Or demo a board and then buy it at end of season. For half its retail.


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## Phedder (Sep 13, 2014)

I've paid full retail for 1 board (well -10% club discount) and I don't regret it at all. It didn't go on sale until all the mountains had closed, so if I hadn't bought it then I wouldn't have got to ride it at all this season just been. Disposable income is disposable, why care how someone else choose to spend it if it makes them happy. If people buy Lib and NS boards at full price how does that effect you at all? There's not always a deal to be had. More often than not there is, but if you want something and you can afford it then more power to you.


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## GDimac (Nov 19, 2015)

Phedder said:


> I've paid full retail for 1 board (well -10% club discount) and I don't regret it at all. It didn't go on sale until all the mountains had closed, so if I hadn't bought it then I wouldn't have got to ride it at all this season just been. Disposable income is disposable, why care how someone else choose to spend it if it makes them happy. If people buy Lib and NS boards at full price how does that effect you at all? There's not always a deal to be had. More often than not there is, but if you want something and you can afford it then more power to you.


Fair point. And you guys in the NZ/AUS area seem to pay the most with board prices? Why is that?


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## Snow Hound (Jul 21, 2012)

Captive audience stuck on an island. We suffer a similar fate in the UK but not quite as bad. Slightly closer to civilisation.

Sent from my ONE E1001 using Tapatalk


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## Phedder (Sep 13, 2014)

GDimac said:


> Fair point. And you guys in the NZ/AUS area seem to pay the most with board prices? Why is that?


Half way across the world with the collective buying power of a single US state I'd say. I paid $675 for the Flight attendant, full retail was $749. Which with the current exchange rate is actually $485USD so not too bad. I got a 2016 Endeavor Cobain on clearance for $350NZD, so $225USD. Pretty stoked on that. Though Burton is one of the better priced brands here, a new Ride Highlife will set you back $999, as will most of Libs top of the line boards.


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

Well, whether you pay full retail or not... the price is the price. I always though Lib was the most expensive until i sorted the blards by price... 

Anyways, lots of people pay full retail. It's not as bad as it seems. A lot of people have no time nor desire to go searching for deals; spend hours online looking where to save $20 here, $10 there... Others dont care, They make plenty. And paying full retail means they get the colour, size, etc they want. Yeah i dont care about some of that stuff, but if someone watns a specific color.... retail is a safe way to have options.

I buy as much as I can locally. Boots... i buy local. On sale. But even if i could save $20 over the interwebz i rather go to a shop, hang around, try a ton of boots and get the ones i want. That alone is worth more than saving an extra 10%. 

Ah well. Rode 7-10cm fresh today. I'd pay retail for that


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## GDimac (Nov 19, 2015)

Snow Hound said:


> Captive audience stuck on an island. We suffer a similar fate in the UK but not quite as bad. Slightly closer to civilisation.
> 
> Sent from my ONE E1001 using Tapatalk





Phedder said:


> GDimac said:
> 
> 
> > Fair point. And you guys in the NZ/AUS area seem to pay the most with board prices? Why is that?
> ...


Ahh makes sense. Unfortunate, but worth it of course? And our Canadian dollar has been at a relatively steady low since last season, so board prices have had an increase over here. Not quite the cray prices you guys deal with but ya. My FA cost over $579 + tax CAD but the local shop I always go to, one of the owners hooked me up with a good deal for this yrs Malavitas with it. 

And haha F1, thanks for rubbing it in . On the contrary, the missus and I were board skating today loll. Have a pretty painful knock to my tailbone area after a tough park session few days back, so slipping on some ice sheets was not fun. But that's awesome tho, my bro and his wife making the trek out there this week. Best season to go in awhile, I imagine.


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## FJB85 (Jan 10, 2016)

Proto came in a couple of weeks ago. I've taken it out a few times and I'm very happy. I definitely feel more confident in my riding and have been venturing outside of my comfort zone. Much thanks to everyone here for your feedback.


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