# '18 Burton Genesis X Re:Flex™



## SlvrDragon50 (Mar 25, 2017)

I almost grabbed a pair of the Genesis X myself from the eBay 20% off deal! Hard to justify buying a second pair of bindings after just one year of riding.


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## Craig64 (Jul 16, 2015)

SlvrDragon50 said:


> I almost grabbed a pair of the Genesis X myself from the eBay 20% off deal! Hard to justify buying a second pair of bindings after just one year of riding.


In Australia Genesis X are hard to get on sale as they have limited stock and generally sell out before the season finishes. I ended up grabbing an EST set yesterday as well as they were 20% off. I just loved the colour of them.


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## Snowdaddy (Feb 2, 2018)

My Burton Genises X broke and are also ruining my boots because of a stupid rivet that shouldn't even be there. I don't have much to compare them with, but they seem to be working pretty well otherwise.


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## Craig64 (Jul 16, 2015)

Snowdaddy said:


> My Burton Genises X broke and are also ruining my boots because of a stupid rivet that shouldn't even be there. I don't have much to compare them with, but they seem to be working pretty well otherwise.


How old are they. Burton are really good with warranty repairs here in Australia. They can't do enough for you.


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## Phedder (Sep 13, 2014)

Craig51 said:


> In Australia Genesis X are hard to get on sale as they have limited stock and generally sell out before the season finishes. I ended up grabbing an EST set yesterday as well as they were 20% off. I just loved the colour of them. :nerd:


You are keeping the snowboarding industry alive. Thank you sir.


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## Snowdaddy (Feb 2, 2018)

Craig51 said:


> How old are they. Burton are really good with warranty repairs here in Australia. They can't do enough for you.:thumbsup:


They're under a year. I expect I'll get a new base sent to me and if they do I'll be happy about that. Seems they have good warranties. I don't think I would buy them again though. Something is eating the leather of my boots. It's either that rivet holding the hi-back together or the edge of the hi-back... that issue aside I like them.


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## Board Doctor (Feb 1, 2018)

I bought these last year, mid-season, full price ($573CAD including tax). :frown: (unfortunately my old bindings were failing and the stock was getting low in Canada).

Originally mounted on my 156 Rossignol Krypto, then moved over to the 154 Dump Truck. Both are fairly stiff boards.

They get great reviews, are super comfy & supportive, but they have more of a surfy feel than a precision response. When you lean toeside, the heel of the binding actually lifts off the board... like up to 1/4”. There might actually be more material in the highback than in the base. Sure you get the board feel, but I just can’t stand that heel lift. Carving through hard, choppy snow feels as though the binging is going to rip off the board. No confidence at speed. This is due to the Reflex base design, and I imagine Burton’s other bindings without the carbon fibre feel even softer.

They’d probably be better on a softer board, and I might hang onto them for a dedicated POW board in the future, but I will definitely be replacing them for this season.

You’ve ridden Burton Bindings, so you know what your getting into. I’m just putting this out there for others... I wish I had known, they’re not cheap.


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## SGboarder (Jun 24, 2012)

Derek Hyde said:


> I bought these last year, mid-season, full price ($573CAD including tax). :frown: (unfortunately my old bindings were failing and the stock was getting low in Canada).
> 
> Originally mounted on my 156 Rossignol Krypto, then moved over to the 154 Dump Truck. Both are fairly stiff boards.
> 
> ...


Pretty much all bindings do that to some extent, Burton bindings (esp Reflex) just more than most others because it is deliberately incorporated in the design - helps make/keep the binding more responsive while at the same timing allowing for it to be a bit softer/tweakable.


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## Craig64 (Jul 16, 2015)

For the 1st time ever I had a rivet pop out off my GenX EST highback. Scratched the side of my Imperials a tiny bit until I noticed the rivet sticking out. I removed it and nurtured it through the rest of the week riding. Burton are sending me a few rivets to repair the highback as they have no more highbacks left in Australia.


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## jstar (Sep 21, 2016)

Craig51 said:


> For the 1st time ever I had a rivet pop out off my GenX EST highback. Scratched the side of my Imperials a tiny bit until I noticed the rivet sticking out. I removed it and nurtured it through the rest of the week riding. Burton are sending me a few rivets to repair the highbcack as they have no more highbacks left in Australia.


Had the same thing happen to me this year with the gen x, wearing imperials no less. Luckily they still had a few highbacks left, so they sent one out.


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## Craig64 (Jul 16, 2015)

Link to a prior thread about the same Genesis binding rivet issue.

https://www.snowboardingforum.com/bindings/201697-burton-genesis-tearing-ungry-boots.html


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## Board Doctor (Feb 1, 2018)

SGboarder said:


> Pretty much all bindings do that to some extent, Burton bindings (esp Reflex) just more than most others because it is deliberately incorporated in the design - helps make/keep the binding more responsive while at the same timing allowing for it to be a bit softer/tweakable.


Your definition of responsive seems to be different than mine. It provides great board feel, but all that flex inhibits power transfer to the board.

I like to drive the board... not just go along for the ride.


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## Craig64 (Jul 16, 2015)

Received the parts from Burton Australia today and repaired the binding rivet. Watched a video online using a metal vice to close the rivet up but noticed this would leave an imprint in the rivet from the jaws grip pattern. So I used a set of vice grips that I adjusted to the right width which had a smooth contact head which did not scratch the rivet. Worked perfectly. Good as new.


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## SGboarder (Jun 24, 2012)

Derek Hyde said:


> Your definition of responsive seems to be different than mine. It provides great board feel, but all that flex inhibits power transfer to the board.
> 
> I like to drive the board... not just go along for the ride.


Nope. The heel lifting does not affect the power transfer (which happens between the edge and the disk/center of the binding); that is a common misperception.


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## Board Doctor (Feb 1, 2018)

SGboarder said:


> Nope. The heel lifting does not affect the power transfer (which happens between the edge and the disk/center of the binding); that is a common misperception.


I don't think it's a misconception, I think it's physics. It's the heel strap that allows you to lift the heel edge (even acting at the center of the binding). Binding flex will dampen that response and delay the weight transfer to the toe edge. This may not be an issue with Now bindings, which are designed to pivot rather than flex, but I haven't tried them.

Lots of people like the Re:Flex, and I even liked the surfy feel in the powder, but I don't like them at speed or on rough terrain. Again this was on a Rossignol Krypto and a Burton Dump Truck... both of which have been described as planks (I think it was actually worse with the 2-bolt channel system).


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## SGboarder (Jun 24, 2012)

Derek Hyde said:


> I don't think it's a misconception, I think it's physics. It's the heel strap that allows you to lift the heel edge (even acting at the center of the binding). Binding flex will dampen that response and delay the weight transfer to the toe edge. This may not be an issue with Now bindings, which are designed to pivot rather than flex, but I haven't tried them.
> 
> Lots of people like the Re:Flex, and I even liked the surfy feel in the powder, but I don't like them at speed or on rough terrain. Again this was on a Rossignol Krypto and a Burton Dump Truck... both of which have been described as planks (I think it was actually worse with the 2-bolt channel system).


No. That might be your perception but it is not how the physics work. Maybe do a search of the forum as this has been discussed at length before.


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## Rip154 (Sep 23, 2017)

Well you are both on to something, whatever the correct name is. If it's not stiff enough, you gotta do something about it, right?


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## Board Doctor (Feb 1, 2018)

SGboarder said:


> No. That might be your perception but it is not how the physics work. Maybe do a search of the forum as this has been discussed at length before.


Okay, show me a free-body diagram to explain how the physics works (if I'm wrong, I'd like to know how).


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## jstar (Sep 21, 2016)

I'm getting flashbacks to my University days, Kinesiology/Human Kinetics Physics classes, with this lingo going on!


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## drblast (Feb 28, 2017)

Derek Hyde said:


> SGboarder said:
> 
> 
> > No. That might be your perception but it is not how the physics work. Maybe do a search of the forum as this has been discussed at length before.
> ...


I've tested this out in my living room because while I love everything else about my Malavitas they just aren't as responsive as bindings with a stiffer base plate. I wish I could get malavitas without the reflex disk.

On reflex bindings you do get plenty of heel lift and even the reflex disc itself flexes quite a bit. That softness definitely affects the responsiveness when you're trying to flex the board toe-side. It's especially apparent on a stiff, wider board, and especially if you're in a stiffer boot on the upper end of the bindings' size range.

Comparing vitas to just about any decent Union or Rome binding is a night and day difference to me.

Now for most riding styles and probably most average sized people it's not going to make much difference, but if you're a heavier guy in size 10-11 boots on medium reflex bindings charging on a stiff board you can't help but notice.


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## kriegs13 (Nov 28, 2016)

Derek Hyde said:


> (I think it was actually worse with the 2-bolt channel system).


I'll leave the physics chat to the pros. I will agree with this though, I do not like re/flex on the channel. I dont know if it makes a difference for power transfer, but I don't like the EXTRA heel lift that i notice when it's 2 bolts. Didn't have the issue when i mounted switchback or salomon bindings to the channel so yeah.


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## Board Doctor (Feb 1, 2018)

I finally got these bindings on another board! A K2 Special Effects, which has a flex of ‘7’. Despite the width of this board, the bindings do work.

IMHO, I’d never put any Re:Flex on a board that’s stiffer than a 7.


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