# Binding Stance Angles



## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

+21/+9 
(this will already ruin your mean, better take the median )


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## d2cycles (Feb 24, 2013)

neni said:


> +21/+9
> (this will already ruin your mean, better take the median )


That would be awesome switch...it would be like riding backwards!!


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

d2cycles said:


> That would be awesome switch...it would be like riding backwards!!


_Would_? It is . I take that as an excuse why I suck at riding switch, but to be honest, it's just lack of exercising. Several guys in my pack ride "fakie" very well with their +30/+18 angles.


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## radiomuse210 (Sep 5, 2014)

neni said:


> +21/+9
> (this will already ruin your mean, better take the median )


Ahahaha...i can't escape it!! :sad1:


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## Deacon (Mar 2, 2013)

Pretty sure I rode +12,-12 most of last year, but I'm figuring to play with it some this year. Maybe +90,+90? :no1:


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## Mizu Kuma (Apr 13, 2014)

Deacon said:


> Pretty sure I rode +12,-12 most of last year, but I'm figuring to play with it some this year. Maybe +90,+90? :no1:


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## timmytard (Mar 19, 2009)

radiomuse210 said:


> I saw someone post recently asking about the stance angles of their bindings. I did a lot more fiddling around with my bindings this season after putting together by new set up - and one of those changes was to move my front foot from 12+ to 15+ (15+,9-). I'm okay at switch, especially if it's just landing a trick then swinging back around - but trying to get better at riding a bit longer in switch. Curious if I should move my back foot out 3 degrees as well? It all feels pretty comfy where it's at so I think I'll try it out and move it if I feel the need. Also wondering what stance angles everyone rides. This was asked before a few years ago, but looking for updated info and from current forum members. I would be interesting to see if female stance angles differ from males, though I can't see any reason why it would. So chime in ladies!
> So for me at the moment - 15+,9-


It depends on which way you hang. Haha.

Whatever feels comfy pretty lady.

Just bring a little screwdriver with you, what may feel comfy in your living room, may not be once out on the mountain.

I put bad angle on my front foot last year, looked fine.
But I never stood in it.

It was brutal, I had to try & do the whole run switch.
Even that hurt so much, I had to stop & fix it.

It sucks ass doin' it on the side of the mtn, but luckily I was able too.

You should always have one anyway.


TT


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## Phedder (Sep 13, 2014)

I prefer +15,-15 for twin boards, I'd been riding about 25% switch trying to improve my skills there, and I like the balanced feeling of an equal duck set up. I've got a stiff directional board I'm yet to ride and I'm thinking of trying +18,-9 or -12 for that.


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## SkullAndXbones (Feb 24, 2014)

15/-2. i never ride switch and i don't do any tricks but i can say that angle is great for bombing.


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## radiomuse210 (Sep 5, 2014)

Phedder said:


> I prefer +15,-15 for twin boards, I'd been riding about 25% switch trying to improve my skills there, and I like the balanced feeling of an equal duck set up. I've got a stiff directional board I'm yet to ride and I'm thinking of trying +18,-9 or -12 for that.


This is why I was considering moving my back foot 3 more degrees as well, for the balanced feeling. But I almost feel like my foot is turned out TOO much when I do that. I like how it seems easier to put pressure on my front foot since I increased the angle - now this is all carpet testing, so we will see how it feels on the mountain. I tried adjusting my angles once a couple years ago, and I ended up switching it back because my front ankle started aching - especially when I was on the lift and the board was hanging off my foot. But I can't remember what I had changed about it. 

And TT...I'll be sure to stow away a little folding screwdriver. Also there are workbenches placed all around the lodge if I happen to forget. I always start fiddling with stuff right before the season starts and I get antsy. 12+ 9- has worked for me so this might be an unnecessary adjustment...but you also don't realize you're missing something if you've never experienced it. And I really hate messing with my bindings on the hill. I hate messing with em anyway don't know why I got into this...


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## taco tuesday (Jul 26, 2014)

I have played around with mine quite a bit and have decided that +15/-12 feels pretty good for me. I am not great at switch but plan on letting my friends go ahead and doing my own thing a lot this season to get better at it.



neni said:


> _Would_? It is . I take that as an excuse why I suck at riding switch, but to be honest, it's just lack of exercising. Several guys in my pack ride "fakie" very well with their +30/+18 angles.


You guys are a bunch of rippers huh? My old room mate had angles like that. One of the fastest people i ever rode with. I couldn't even keep up with him when he had broken his jaw, had it wired shut, was wearing a full face helmet to protect it, and "taking it slow" to be safe. I almost shit myself when i found myself about to pass him and catch his buddy who was an Aspen local and our personal guide while we were there.

Like TT said bring a screwdriver to the hill and change it if it doesn't feel good. I have done that many times. Just don't lose your screws.


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## radiomuse210 (Sep 5, 2014)

taco tuesday said:


> I have played around with mine quite a bit and have decided that +15/-12 feels pretty good for me. I am not great at switch but plan on letting my friends go ahead and doing my own thing a lot this season to get better at it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thinking more about it, I think I DID try 15+ a coupla years ago while fiddling around with it at Snowshoe - and I remember not liking it and switching it back. And I've been at 12+/9- ever since. I may go ahead and give it a whirl - but definitely bringing a screwdriver based on the last time messing with my angles.


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## chomps1211 (Mar 30, 2011)

radiomuse210 said:


> …..And TT...I'll be sure to stow away a little folding screwdriver. Also there are workbenches placed all around the lodge if I happen to forget.
> 
> And I really hate messing with my bindings on the hill. I hate messing with em anyway don't know why I got into this...


I really like something like this tool (T Handle) for use adjusting my bindings. The T handle allows for better grip and torque application when tightening/loosening mounting screws. It's compact, convenient relatively inexpensive, and has multiple interchangeable size/type bits. You can easily throw the whole kit in a gear bag, leave it in the room, or only take the handle and #3 bit you need with you to the hill for the day.


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## taco tuesday (Jul 26, 2014)

Yup. I have the dakine t-handle where the handle is hollow, one end screws off and the bits fit inside.


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## Fewdfreak (May 13, 2013)

I am female and I now ride about +12/-12 with a 18-20 inch stance depending on board. I rode like +18/0 for years before and always thought I sucked at switch until I changed my stance, makes it way easier. I prolly ride 75% reg and 25% switch. On a narrower board somtimes I have to duck my stance out a lil more if my overhang is too much. I feel like my angles make less of a diff than my stance width tho and binding placement and how I am centered or setback etc on board. Do bring a screw driver--I once changed my stance and angles pretty drastically at once and it totally sucked and I didn't bring any tools...


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

taco tuesday said:


> You guys are a bunch of rippers huh? My old room mate had angles like that. One of the fastest people i ever rode with. I couldn't even keep up with him when he had broken his jaw, had it wired shut, was wearing a full face helmet to protect it, and "taking it slow" to be safe. I almost shit myself when i found myself about to pass him and catch his buddy who was an Aspen local and our personal guide while we were there.


They are, I'm not. I like to ride fast, but "reasonable fast", if that makes sense. 
Back in the day, comfort zone ended when the board began to chatter, thus the board was kind of the limitation. But learned where my own comfort zone is when I tried to challenge a new, way stiffer board if it starts to chatter like the old ones did at a certain speed, pointed, ducked and let it run free and waited... Well, it didn't chatter and also didn't stop to accelerate and I got scared thinking omg, this tiny body will break into pieces if shit happens. I'm bit more careful now and keep the reins tight to stay in _my_ limits . 

The guys don't seem to have such thoughts. When ever I ask if they don't fear what could happen if they'd fall they counter "why should I fall?". Seems out of their imaginatin. I can live with my position of being the slowest


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## NWBoarder (Jan 10, 2010)

I ride +9, -9. It's what feels comfortable for me. I tried a bunch of different angles though before I settled on one.


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## midnightcaper (Mar 23, 2013)

I'm +12 ,-12


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## t21 (Dec 29, 2010)

I have mine at 12/-9 for about two seasons now (i think) but i did change my stance width to 23-3/4" from 22" and that help me a lot more to be aggressive and comfortable at the same time.


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## radiomuse210 (Sep 5, 2014)

Thanks for all the input. I think I'm going to go ahead and try 15+ again. When I stand in my bindings at 12+ it feels like my foot wants to turn out a little bit more. And standing in them at 15+ feels a bit more natural when putting pressure on the front foot. Not sure why it felt uncomfortable the last time I tried it, but like TT advised - I'll be bringing some tools to the hills.  Quite interesting to the range of angles out there...what do you think influences preference? Different body types? I'm sure the focus of one's riding makes a difference (as far as forward vs. duck) - but focusing on the myriad of ducked or semi-ducked angles out there...it would be interesting to know what makes one angle set comfortable to one person makes another person uncomfortable.

Just thinking out loud.


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## midnightcaper (Mar 23, 2013)

Well since I'm a old man when I was +15,-15 my knees sad no Ty I bought some 390 bosses with canting moved my feet to +12,-12 and opened my stance. Feels like the sweet spot for me.


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## radiomuse210 (Sep 5, 2014)

midnightcaper said:


> Well since I'm a old man when I was +15,-15 my knees sad no Ty I bought some 390 bosses with canting moved my feet to +12,-12 and opened my stance. Feels like the sweet spot for me.


Hmmm something to think about. It was some sort of achy feeling that made me switch back the first time. And I've hurt my knees a little in a car accident last year. I would love to get some Rome Madisons next time I get new bindings.


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

Snowboard: +18 -9

Longboard: not sure. Maybe +18 +21 for fast, +15 0 for slides.


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## chomps1211 (Mar 30, 2011)

midnightcaper said:


> Well since I'm a old man when I was +15,-15 my knees sad no Ty I bought some 390 bosses *with canting moved my feet to +12,-12 and opened my stance. Feels like the sweet spot for me.*


*THAT*,… is another good point and a very important variable that really hasn't been taken into account in this discussion!

Last season, I went with a wider stance. It felt good, more stable, but it also really worked my knees! I did a little DIY canting to my cartels and the wider stance doesn't feel as hard on my knees end of last season. I also think a wider stance, favors a more extreme ducking of one's stance does it not?

The wider I spread my feet, the more they seem to want to naturally duck out! For me, it makes getting low easier. Try standing with a wide stance and a stance angle fairly neutral. say 0/0 or 9/9 and see how it feels to squat and get low bending the knees!.


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## atr3yu (Feb 15, 2012)

Only +18 -12 feels right to me. Also, a big thing was moving my width to 23" on the dot. I will say I ride goofy and when I just stand normally my right foot points out quite a bit more than my left. Now I am not saying to try 23" as that might we quite a bit for most people, just saying it may play a factor in your stance as a whole.


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## Phedder (Sep 13, 2014)

radiomuse210 said:


> Thanks for all the input. I think I'm going to go ahead and try 15+ again. When I stand in my bindings at 12+ it feels like my foot wants to turn out a little bit more. And standing in them at 15+ feels a bit more natural when putting pressure on the front foot. Not sure why it felt uncomfortable the last time I tried it, but like TT advised - I'll be bringing some tools to the hills.  Quite interesting to the range of angles out there...what do you think influences preference? Different body types? I'm sure the focus of one's riding makes a difference (as far as forward vs. duck) - but focusing on the myriad of ducked or semi-ducked angles out there...it would be interesting to know what makes one angle set comfortable to one person makes another person uncomfortable.
> 
> Just thinking out loud.


The +15, -15 for me is identical to my stance when squatting, so all my musculature is very developed to respond well in that position.


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## BiZo (Oct 12, 2014)

I was just wondering about this myself...right now I have a pretty neutral stance because I don't have any clue what to expect and the last time I boarded it was a rental and I didn't even think to look at what their settings were. 

The only concern I really have right now is that the toe of my binding hangs over the edge of my board...should I angle it more or shift it back more? If I shift it back then it will probably hang over the rear some.


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## radiomuse210 (Sep 5, 2014)

BiZo said:


> I was just wondering about this myself...right now I have a pretty neutral stance because I don't have any clue what to expect and the last time I boarded it was a rental and I didn't even think to look at what their settings were.
> 
> The only concern I really have right now is that the toe of my binding hangs over the edge of my board...should I angle it more or shift it back more? If I shift it back then it will probably hang over the rear some.


Overhang should be equal - you can expect a little overhang. As long as you're not getting toe or heel drag in carves, you're good. If your feet fit between the edges with no overhang, you will have a hard time getting leverage over the board in turns. What are your stance width and angles?

I am pretty short so my stance isn't as wide as some of you guys - it's a little past my shoulders. So where I'm at 12+ seems to be comfortable and 15+ (while feeling good for front foot pressure) seems a bit turned out. Squatting - I don't turn my feet out that wide. When I squat in my stance position I can get nice and low with no knee pain or awkwardness. I don't know...I'm kind of feeling "if it ain't broke don't fix it" and also some "you're overthinking this"


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## BiZo (Oct 12, 2014)

My width is about shoulder length apart and my angles are +6 and -9'ish


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## chomps1211 (Mar 30, 2011)

BiZo said:


> My width is about shoulder length apart and my angles are +6 and -9'ish


OK,.. If you're comfortable with your angles like that, that's great, but you are the first person I've met who has _less_ angle on their front foot than they do on their trailing foot! 

If you were on a rentals before? The angles were probably set @ 15/15 unless you asked for something else specifically!


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## BiZo (Oct 12, 2014)

chomps1211 said:


> OK,.. If you're comfortable with your angles like that, that's great, but you are the first person I've met who has _less_ angle on their front foot than they do on their trailing foot!
> 
> If you were on a rentals before? The angles were probably set @ 15/15 unless you asked for something else specifically!


LOL I think I just put the plus sign in the wrong spot...I am definitely not pigeon toe'd...but I will probably change them to 15/15 and see where that puts me. I did the little "jump test" and when I land my feet are naturally at about a 15/15 anyway.


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## chomps1211 (Mar 30, 2011)

BiZo said:


> LOL I think I just put the plus sign in the wrong spot...I am definitely not pigeon toe'd...but I will probably change them to 15/15 and see where that puts me. I did the little "jump test" and when I land my feet are naturally at about a 15/15 anyway.


Well that configuration wouldn't make your stance pigeon toed, just that you would be riding with less forward angle on your front foot than your rear. Unless set up evenly ducked,.. 15/15, 12/12, 9/9, etc. Most folks set up their angles with their front foot pointing more forward than the rear.

….although I did meet a girl last year who was actually riding with pigeon toed binding angles! She seemed to be riding just fine. Don't know how she was doing that. I think it would have killed me! Maybe she was severely knock knee'd when in street shoes,..? Who knows, but I spoke with her a bit and she learned to ride like that and since she was pretty much killin' it. Even riding switch! I didn't feel it was my place to tell her "She was doing it wrong!" It wasn't wrong for her!!


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## Ravaging Rami (Mar 11, 2014)

My dad and I both ride same degree in front as in back. I'm working on riding switch about 50% of the time for versatility. He has been riding for a while and doesn't have a strong foot anymore from riding switch so much! He rides 9/9 duck and I ride 12/12 or so. I do think canted footbeds help with a wider stance, because they relieve knee stress for me. I also like having a wider stance so I can get lower.


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## BiZo (Oct 12, 2014)

chomps1211 said:


> Well that configuration wouldn't make your stance pigeon toed, just that you would be riding with less forward angle on your front foot than your rear. Unless set up evenly ducked,.. 15/15, 12/12, 9/9, etc. Most folks set up their angles with their front foot pointing more forward than the rear.
> 
> ….although I did meet a girl last year who was actually riding with pigeon toed binding angles! She seemed to be riding just fine. Don't know how she was doing that. I think it would have killed me! Maybe she was severely knock knee'd when in street shoes,..? Who knows, but I spoke with her a bit and she learned to ride like that and since she was pretty much killin' it. Even riding switch! I didn't feel it was my place to tell her "She was doing it wrong!" It wasn't wrong for her!!


My reasoning behind this is because I am used to surfing and you sort of "drive" with your front foot and your rear foot is sort of stabilization. I guess this isn't surfing though so I need to configure my stance differently.



Ravaging Rami said:


> My dad and I both ride same degree in front as in back. I'm working on riding switch about 50% of the time for versatility. He has been riding for a while and doesn't have a strong foot anymore from riding switch so much! He rides 9/9 duck and I ride 12/12 or so. I do think canted footbeds help with a wider stance, because they relieve knee stress for me. I also like having a wider stance so I can get lower.


Is it typical to start with the same degree for both feet and adjust it as you go?


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## Ravaging Rami (Mar 11, 2014)

BiZo said:


> My reasoning behind this is because I am used to surfing and you sort of "drive" with your front foot and your rear foot is sort of stabilization. I guess this isn't surfing though so I need to configure my stance differently.
> 
> 
> 
> Is it typical to start with the same degree for both feet and adjust it as you go?


That's what he told me to do when I started. I want to be proficient both feet forward so I can shred longer and make the most of my days! Plus I want to be comfortable landing/riding switch.


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## BiZo (Oct 12, 2014)

I think that makes sense...I will adjust them to 15/15 and just bring a tool with me so if I have any discomfort I can adjust a bit and try to dial them in.


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## Extazy (Feb 27, 2014)

BiZo said:


> My reasoning behind this is because I am used to *surfing and you sort of "drive" with your front foot and your rear foot is sort of stabilization*. I guess this isn't surfing though so I need to configure my stance differently.


What kind of board do you surf? I just dont know how you control it with front foot. Or did you mean something else by "Drive"


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## BiZo (Oct 12, 2014)

What I meant by "drive" is that you shift your front foot or point where you want to go. It might just be a thing I do, I dunno...I was never taught how to surf..just did my own thing.


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## radiomuse210 (Sep 5, 2014)

BiZo said:


> What I meant by "drive" is that you shift your front foot or point where you want to go. It might just be a thing I do, I dunno...I was never taught how to surf..just did my own thing.


i understand what you mean and the first few times I was on a snowboard, I tried to steer that way - not gonna work out too well. You steer by putting pressure on your edges and leaning your body into the turn. Watch some tutorials on Youtube they can explain it better than I can. I would recommend starting out at 15+,15- 12+12- or 15+12- 12+9-


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## BiZo (Oct 12, 2014)

radiomuse210 said:


> i understand what you mean and the first few times I was on a snowboard, I tried to steer that way - not gonna work out too well. You steer by putting pressure on your edges and leaning your body into the turn. Watch some tutorials on Youtube they can explain it better than I can. I would recommend starting out at 15+,15- 12+12- or 15+12- 12+9-


Awesome, I appreciate all the help everyone. I set the front to 15 and the rear to 12..it looked more natural for me to stand that way. Can't wait to get on the hill and see how many times I can plant my face into it.


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## radiomuse210 (Sep 5, 2014)

BiZo said:


> Awesome, I appreciate all the help everyone. I set the front to 15 and the rear to 12..it looked more natural for me to stand that way. Can't wait to get on the hill and see how many times I can plant my face into it.


I wasn't a fan of mirrored duck angles - not for me. You'll find your sweet spot as you go along. And falling is a necessary hurdle to jump for us all - once it gets past that point, I found progression to be a lot smoother.


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## Clayton Bigsby (Oct 23, 2012)

I'm at 18 and 0


If you ever wanna appreciate the skill it takes, try a race board w/hardboots. I dont remember my stance, it had to have been somewhere around +25/+20. Very different style of riding, but once you figure it out, man can you lay it down. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Vl-DzZ0KzA


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## OU812 (Feb 2, 2013)

Clayton Bigsby said:


> I'm at 18 and 0
> 
> 
> If you ever wanna appreciate the skill it takes, try a race board w/hardboots. I dont remember my stance, it had to have been somewhere around +25/+20. Very different style of riding, but once you figure it out, man can you lay it down.
> ...


Now that should be at the X Games or maybe Olympics, I'd love to watch races where guys had to duck under ropes like that while going Mach 5


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## cookiedog (Mar 3, 2014)

taco tuesday said:


> Yup. I have the dakine t-handle where the handle is hollow, one end screws off and the bits fit inside.


I had that one too.Very nice tool. Frkn handle shattered when i accidentally drooped it on the concrete.


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## cookiedog (Mar 3, 2014)

This is some bad ass carving. Looking at slow mo..0 chatter. Are these boards really stiff comparing to stiffest (regular) snowboards or they are the same?


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## chomps1211 (Mar 30, 2011)

OU812 said:


> Now that should be at the X Games or maybe Olympics, I'd love to watch races where guys had to duck under ropes like that while going Mach 5





cookiedog said:


> This is some bad ass carving. Looking at slow mo..0 chatter. Are these boards really stiff comparing to stiffest (regular) snowboards or they are the same?


Here's another good vid. This guy is definitely layin' it down right! Action starts about 1:35 in. Skip to it. Nice camera angles too!


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## Clayton Bigsby (Oct 23, 2012)

cookiedog said:


> This is some bad ass carving. Looking at slow mo..0 chatter. Are these boards really stiff comparing to stiffest (regular) snowboards or they are the same?



stiffer, same as boardercross boards


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## ZacAttakk (Oct 20, 2014)

radiomuse210 said:


> Thanks for all the input. I think I'm going to go ahead and try 15+ again. When I stand in my bindings at 12+ it feels like my foot wants to turn out a little bit more. And standing in them at 15+ feels a bit more natural when putting pressure on the front foot. Not sure why it felt uncomfortable the last time I tried it, but like TT advised - I'll be bringing some tools to the hills.  Quite interesting to the range of angles out there...what do you think influences preference? Different body types? I'm sure the focus of one's riding makes a difference (as far as forward vs. duck) - but focusing on the myriad of ducked or semi-ducked angles out there...it would be interesting to know what makes one angle set comfortable to one person makes another person uncomfortable.
> 
> Just thinking out loud.


I ride 15+,15- but it took me a while to get used to it since i learned on 15+,5-. I changed when i started to ride park. I sucked and riding switch with the exception of coming off jibs switch and then quickly spinning around, but i got it down pretty well last season. Do you ride have a long board or some other skate board for carving around your neighborhood? I learned switch easily last season from getting used to riding my long board switch. Two months before the season I just carved around the streets switch and by the time I got on my snowboard it felt really natural, I had riding switch down almost just as good as riding regular in a couple weeks time.


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## GrizzlyBeast (Oct 18, 2014)

ZacAttakk said:


> I ride 15+,15- but it took me a while to get used to it since i learned on 15+,5-. I changed when i started to ride park. I sucked and riding switch with the exception of coming off jibs switch and then quickly spinning around, but i got it down pretty well last season. Do you ride have a long board or some other skate board for carving around your neighborhood? I learned switch easily last season from getting used to riding my long board switch. Two months before the season I just carved around the streets switch and by the time I got on my snowboard it felt really natural, I had riding switch down almost just as good as riding regular in a couple weeks time.



15+, 5-.....what bindings are you riding?


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

OU812 said:


> Now that should be at the X Games or maybe Olympics, I'd love to watch races where guys had to duck under ropes like that while going Mach 5


Yea, replace the weird pole slalom at Olympics with this kind of slalom racing and I'd watch it too.


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## GrizzlyBeast (Oct 18, 2014)

Ha....you look like a missile. Incoming!!!


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## ZacAttakk (Oct 20, 2014)

GrizzlyBeast said:


> 15+, 5-.....what bindings are you riding?


When I was a noob and had that set up i was riding burton freestyles. Now I have GNU Weird bindings


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## timmytard (Mar 19, 2009)

cookiedog said:


> This is some bad ass carving. Looking at slow mo..0 chatter. Are these boards really stiff comparing to stiffest (regular) snowboards or they are the same?


They are really stiff, but torsionally they are incredibly stiff.

That's what make em carve like that, or most of the reason.

To see how stiff a board is torsionally, pinch one between your feet while standing normally. 

Grab the other end with your hands & try & twist it.



That's why I love my Palmer Titanium Channels , they are a wolves in sheeps clothing.

They are an alpine deck, that looks like a twin tip.

90% of the people that ride em, ride em with hard boots.

& Clothoid Sidecut, the more I read about it the more it makes sense why these boards are fast as fuck.


TT


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

timmytard said:


> They are really stiff, but torsionally they are incredibly stiff.
> 
> That's what make em carve like that, or most of the reason.
> 
> ...


Hey TT, wanna give an oblivious snowboard tech noob a lesson? I've only vague ideas but actually don't really know...
Just tried to twist the three boards I have at home. The Ride Farah will twist a tiny bit (dunno, 4mm...? Is that a lot or little?), the Jones Mothership a bit less, the Flag - it made me huff n laugh - did only make my knees n hands hurt but twist = zero. 

How does torsional and longitudinal stiffness translate on snow? How would e.g. a tors. stiff + long. soft board compare to one vice versa? What's the good and bad and when/for what?

BTW: sorry Radio for derailing... but I reckon you're interested to learn as well


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## chomps1211 (Mar 30, 2011)

timmytard said:


> They are really stiff, but torsionally they are incredibly stiff.
> 
> That's what make em carve like that, or most of the reason.
> 
> ...


Although I know Far less about this than neni,.. and Nothing compared to TT. I read that as saying,…

…its the _sidecut_ that really does the turning?

With my reg snowboards,.. I can twist my feet in the bindings and torsionally twist the board to tighten or loosen my turns, my grip on the snow, whatever, right?

As stiff as these sound, I don't imagine you're _not_ effecting the turn much by doing any foot twisting, even in hard boots,.. eh? If I'm just _wrong?_ Please ignore all of the above!  :embarrased1:


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## radiomuse210 (Sep 5, 2014)

neni said:


> Hey TT, wanna give an oblivious snowboard tech noob a lesson? I've only vague ideas but actually don't really know...
> Just tried to twist the three boards I have at home. The Ride Farah will twist a tiny bit (dunno, 4mm...? Is that a lot or little?), the Jones Mothership a bit less, the Flag - it made me huff n laugh - did only make my knees n hands hurt but twist = zero.
> 
> How does torsional and longitudinal stiffness translate on snow? How would e.g. a tors. stiff + long. soft board compare to one vice versa? What's the good and bad and when/for what?
> ...


I would actually...I know about tors. and long. flex but not sure that they affect while riding. I think obviously long. flex makes riding freestyle easier...is it the same with tors. flex? Any differences when turning? I would think a tors. soft board would have trouble holding a hard carve if it was too soft. It would overflex perhaps? Nor do I know what different flex points benefit. I'm just speculating.


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## Deacon (Mar 2, 2013)

You use torsional flex to initiate your carve. Instead of throwing your weight to one side, pressure your front foot on the side you want to turn to, engaging your sidecut.


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## GrizzlyBeast (Oct 18, 2014)

For beginners who have never snowboarded before and you want a good starting setup: 

Start with your bindings at 15+ F and 0 R. Youre only going to be learning to ride in one direction (your dominant stance) to start off with. 

Learn to stop heel edge....then learn to stop toe edge. Once you get to this point and are comfortable going straight and then turning and stopping both heel and toe edge...you will want to begin to link the turns together. when you get somewhat comfortable linking turns you can start to progressively ride faster. ( It will come naturally). You should ride in your regular dominant stance until you feel comfortable riding at faster speeds...as well as properly turning and stopping your board. (This could be days or weeks depending on the person) 

Now that youve learned how to properly ride and carve and turn your board...its time to learn to ride switch. Here it can come down to preference. If you want to put your bindings back to 15+ 15- go for it. I found that I didnt like turning my back foot any farther than 6-. I could ride switch easily and for me I found that anything past 6-took too much away from the power speed and control that I had when riding regular. But everyones body is different. At this point its just whatever is comfortable and suits your riding style.

Also...i heard some guy say he was going to start off at 15+ and 12+? Dont do that. It may feel comfortable now but it wont when you start riding. Im surprised noone gave you any tips to not do that yet. Its like the blind leading the blind around here.:injured:


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## chomps1211 (Mar 30, 2011)

GrizzlyBeast said:


> Also...i heard some guy say he was going to start off at 15+ and 12+? Dont do that. It may feel comfortable now but it wont when you start riding. Im surprised noone gave you any tips to not do that yet. Its like the blind leading the blind around here.:injured:


Pretty sure that was _YOU_ wasn't it? Weren't You the +/+ forward stance only advocate here?

After I got off of a rental, who's angles I can only _assume_ were set at +15/-15. I got my own deck and I learned to ride with a fairly narrow stance, (..only 19.5 inches wide) and my binders set at +21/-9. Rode like that for 2- half seasons before changing it up! Now I ride at +18/-12. I still like having my lead foot pointing more forward than the rear! Personal pref.

It's also been recommended that you never have more than like a 30° difference in angle between your front and rear foot. Meaning, something like +24/-12 would be bad. 24 plus 12= 36° Hard on the knees?


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## GrizzlyBeast (Oct 18, 2014)

chomps1211 said:


> Pretty sure that was _YOU_ wasn't it? Weren't You the +/+ forward stance only advocate here?
> 
> After I got off of a rental, who's angles I can only _assume_ were set at +15/-15. I got my own deck and I learned to ride with a fairly narrow stance, (..only 19.5 inches wide) and my binders set at +21/-9. Rode like that for 2- half seasons before changing it up! Now I ride at +18/-12. I still like having my lead foot pointing more forward than the rear! Personal pref.
> 
> It's also been recommended that you never have more than like a 30° difference in angle between your front and rear foot. Meaning, something like +24/-12 would be bad. 24 plus 12= 36° Hard on the knees?


Positive angles are good if there is around a fifteen degree spread between binding angles. Like say 18+ and 3+. 15+ and 12+ wouldnt make sense for really anyone to ride. 12+ in the rear is an aggressive stance...so not having at least 27+ in the front would be counterproductive. I personally would never set my back binding farther forward than 9+ because I feel it takes away the surfboard type thrashing power i get when kicking out a heelside or slashing a toe side. Alpine boards have steep angles because all they do is carve and lock in... IMO this would get boring after awhile. I slalom waterski and its virtually the same (even though its alot of fun). Only so much you can do though really. 

I gave Jake Blauvelts stance angles only as contrast to basically say that if he can get away with having 6+ on the rear and still ride switch fine on a directional board...someone at 3- or 6- (which is what i recommend for switch ) shouldnt have any troubles. 

If you are interested in positive angles...I would try out 18+ and 0. I would recommend trying it for sure on a stiff directional freeride board. Its a different feeling. Im personally addicted if you cant tell. Most people that ride smaller resorts and want to progress as a rider are forced to go into the park to do so because there just isnt decent freeride material. Most people in minnesota where I grew up ride twin boards duck stance...because they are riding up and down the chairlift going in the terrain park for every run. WHen you get to the mountains its different. There may be a terrain park near the top of a lift...but then after that theres a huge gigantic mountain to ride down.


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

^ he's right.


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## GrizzlyBeast (Oct 18, 2014)

Im starting off this year at 21+ and 3+. Im going to be focusing on riding switch a bit more this year to make myself an overall stronger rider. I may even go back to 3- or 6- in the back depending on how it feels. Im going to try a few different things out. I cant sit here and recommend people do this or that if i dont dare challenge myself a bit more. Its easy to get into a comfort zone. We are creatures of habit I guess.


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## GrizzlyBeast (Oct 18, 2014)

F1EA said:


> ^ he's right.


Thanks man...I read some of your posts about whether or not your son wants to snowboard or ski. You seem like a real good dude.


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## Mizu Kuma (Apr 13, 2014)

I still ride my DC HKD with Flux DM's set at +15/-15!!!!!

And I'm never in the Park!!!!! 

Everyone's different!!!!!


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## GrizzlyBeast (Oct 18, 2014)

Mizu Kuma said:


> I still ride my DC HKD with Flux DM's set at +15/-15!!!!!
> 
> And I'm never in the Park!!!!!
> 
> Everyone's different!!!!!


Yea...I acknowledged that already in a more friendly way for you to understand in my recommendation a few posts above to beginner snowboarders learning to ride. whatever floats your boat meng. My recommendation is really for people who havent experienced anything else. Im assuming you have.


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## Mizu Kuma (Apr 13, 2014)

GrizzlyBeast said:


> Yea...I acknowledged that already in a more friendly way for you to understand in my recommendation a few posts above to beginner snowboarders learning to ride. whatever floats your boat meng. My recommendation is really for people who havent experienced anything else. Im assuming you have.


Yep, started with both at positive angles, soft flex directional hire board!!!!!

That's how they used to set them up as stock standard!!!!!

Measured by the old nose/chin method!!!!!


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## chomps1211 (Mar 30, 2011)

Mizu Kuma said:


> Yep, started with both at positive angles, soft flex directional hire board!!!!!
> 
> That's how they used to set them up as stock standard!!!!!
> 
> Measured by the old nose/chin method!!!!!


Not to date you, but how far back was that! I never see a +/+ set up on rentals nowadays! (..although they're still using that stupid nose/chin method!) :shrug:


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## radiomuse210 (Sep 5, 2014)

chomps1211 said:


> Not to date you, but how far back was that! I never see a +/+ set up on rentals nowadays! (..although they're still using that stupid nose/chin method!) :shrug:


While I don't know about rental shop angles, lots of places still use height as the main measurement tool. My first setup was a bit short (both total length and effective edge) because the guy at the shop measured it by my height, and as most of you know by now, I'm quite short! It wasn't too terribly far off (given I weigh 100-105. 135 vs 140...I still ride boards as short as 136 but these days I size my boards not so much by total length, but by effective edge, contact length, width) and I progressed well on it to a point, but wouldn't have had to get a new board so soon if I had gotten something bigger. The board I have now that is 136 has more effective edge than the other board in a 140 - and they are both the same profiles, so they are comparable. And the 136 has the same EE as a Roxy 142, though I don't know if the profiles are the same. Anyway...I guess what I'm trying to say is there is a lot more to sizing a board than the total length AND folks are still sizing people based on height. You would think people at snowboard specific shops and rental places would have caught on by now. Though I guess laying out all this to a noob would be overwhelming...weight and total length is a good starting point. I went to the Wiredsports college of effective edge/contact length and board sizing when choosing my current board.


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## Mizu Kuma (Apr 13, 2014)

chomps1211 said:


> Not to date you, but how far back was that! I never see a +/+ set up on rentals nowadays! (..although they're still using that stupid nose/chin method!) :shrug:


:laugh: It was only bout 16 years ago, but keep in mind I do live in the land that time forgot!!!!! (Or the land where we just can't be buggered)


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## chomps1211 (Mar 30, 2011)

Mizu Kuma said:


> :laugh: It was only bout 16 years ago, but keep in mind I do live in the land that time forgot!!!!! (Or the land where we just can't be buggered)


Well, HELL!! That's back in about the late 90's. I guess riding a Duck stance was pretty common by then! I've only been riding 4 years! So what do I know! :lol:



radiomuse210 said:


> …You would think people at snowboard specific shops and rental places would have caught on by now. Though I guess laying out all this to a noob would be overwhelming...weight and total length is a good starting point. I went to the Wiredsports college of effective edge/contact length and board sizing when choosing my current board.


At the hills around here,.. You got a bunch of high school kids working the rental shop for min wage and a pass! They use the nose/chin method just to get people in 'n' out as quick as possible.

Now imagine how crowded the rental places get at a resort like Vail or Breck, Tahoe etc. They are only interested in moving bodies thru _fast_! It's the quickest way to do it.

Nose/chin-+15/-15,.. *NEXT!!! *

People who know what they want and it's different,.. they muck up the flow! 

Now if you hear that nose/chin shit from a salesperson at a shop selling snowboard gear,..? Find another shop, just turn around and walk the fuck out!!!


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## Mizu Kuma (Apr 13, 2014)

chomps1211 said:


> Well, HELL!! That's back in about the late 90's. I guess riding a Duck stance was pretty common by then! I've only been riding 4 years! So what do I know! :lol:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yep, along with single Boa Boots!!!!! (or Boa Ripoff)


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## chomps1211 (Mar 30, 2011)

Mizu Kuma said:


> Yep, along with single Boa Boots!!!!! (or Boa Ripoff)


:embarrased1::embarrased1: I own 2 pair! :embarrased1::embarrased1: 3 if you count the Salomon Faction's I never wear!


Next pair will be dual Boa's!


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## Mizu Kuma (Apr 13, 2014)

chomps1211 said:


> :embarrased1::embarrased1: I own 2 pair! :embarrased1::embarrased1: 3 if you count the Salomon Faction's I never wear!
> 
> 
> Next pair will be dual Boa's!


Your feet are gonna love you from that day onward!!!!! :laugh:


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## Phedder (Sep 13, 2014)

chomps1211 said:


> Well, HELL!! That's back in about the late 90's. I guess riding a Duck stance was pretty common by then! I've only been riding 4 years! So what do I know! :lol:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Truth! Except we had no high school kids hah. Getting a bus or two of kids all turn up together puts a real time crunch on as they have to get to their lessons and are usually cutting it fine! In that case it's chin if they're normal weight, nose if they're a bit heavier, +15/-15 (that way it doesn't matter if they're goofy or regular :happy Now if it's not busy I'll spend a lot more time with a person talking to them about riding and their experience, often set them up at +15/-9 and give them things to work on if I can.


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## ridinbend (Aug 2, 2012)

So I was trying some different angles today on my stance and I gotta say I felt a lot more control and power with duck in my back foot during my turns then when I was trying positive stance angles on both my feet. And this baby is even full camber.


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## OU812 (Feb 2, 2013)

GrizzlyBeast said:


> For beginners who have never snowboarded before and you want a good starting setup:
> 
> Start with your bindings at 15+ F and 0 R. Youre only going to be learning to ride in one direction (your dominant stance) to start off with.
> 
> ...


^^^ Who is this clown??


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## OU812 (Feb 2, 2013)

neni said:


> Yea, replace the weird pole slalom at Olympics with this kind of slalom racing and I'd watch it too.


Yea the parallel slalom, replace that with what those Russian guys were doing and I'd definitely watch. I bet so many others would as well, hell of a lot more exciting.


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## chomps1211 (Mar 30, 2011)

OU812 said:


> ^^^ Who is this clown??


You are _far_ from the first to ask that! :shrug:


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## OU812 (Feb 2, 2013)

Yea, saw some of his other posts. Troll, and not a good one either.


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## GrizzlyBeast (Oct 18, 2014)

OU812 said:


> ^^^ Who is this clown??



My advice is for people like you.....who have never truly ridden their snowboard in a proper way. 

Board length/stiffness should be determined by a riders weight.


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## GrizzlyBeast (Oct 18, 2014)

Mizu Kuma said:


> Yep, started with both at positive angles, soft flex directional hire board!!!!!
> 
> That's how they used to set them up as stock standard!!!!!
> 
> Measured by the old nose/chin method!!!!!



If you knew what the benefits of having positive angles were...you would understand what im trying to tell new snowboard riders. Im at a higher level of riding. Im not trying to be mean but I would imagine that you dont understand how to ride fast comfortably or carve properly etc.


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## ridinbend (Aug 2, 2012)

GrizzlyBeast said:


> Im at a higher level


Indeed you are.


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## GrizzlyBeast (Oct 18, 2014)

ridinbend said:


> Indeed you are.


I bet you think Ron Paul is crazy too. (Actually I would bet you dont even know who that is) 

Being in the majority of dumbed up posters on this site...doesnt mean that you are right.


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## Deacon (Mar 2, 2013)

GrizzlyBeast said:


> My advice is for people like you.....*who have never truly ridden their snowboard in a proper way. *
> 
> Board length/stiffness should be determined by a riders weight.





GrizzlyBeast said:


> If you knew what the benefits of having positive angles were...you would understand what im trying to tell new snowboard riders. * Im at a higher level of riding*. Im not trying to be mean but I would imagine that you dont understand how to ride fast comfortably or carve properly etc.





GrizzlyBeast said:


> I bet you think Ron Paul is crazy too. (Actually I would bet you dont even know who that is)
> 
> *Just because you are in the majority of dumbed up posters on this site*...doesnt mean that you are right.



Grizz, THESE RIGHT HERE are why your advice is poorly received. Whether it's just internetz bravado or you're sincerely this arrogant, let me paraphrase your advice to people "_Let me bless you with my knowledge and tell you how everything you've ever learned is wrong_".

Even when you have moments of clarity and post something accurate, it's rarely going to be taken well when it's delivered in this manner.


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## OU812 (Feb 2, 2013)

GrizzlyBeast said:


> My advice is for people like you.....who have never truly ridden their snowboard in a proper way.
> 
> Board length/stiffness should be determined by a riders weight.


Ok, Miss Cleo


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## ridinbend (Aug 2, 2012)

GrizzlyBeast said:


> I bet you think Ron Paul is crazy too. (Actually I would bet you dont even know who that is)
> 
> Being in the majority of dumbed up posters on this site...doesnt mean that you are right.


Ron Paul was a great president for this nation of ours. He did a lot of good things after WWII.


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## GrizzlyBeast (Oct 18, 2014)

The manner in which you guys respond to my posts only proves my point further. Its like shining a spotlight on yourself to show others who you really are.

WE all know that deacon rides at a tiny resort where the big fish ride duck stance and spin around all day in the park. So Deacon...being the douche that he is....wants to be cool like those guys. SO Deacon sets his snowboard up that way. 

Since Deacon has a huge ego....anyone trying to give him advice or tell him to change anything would be too much to handle for him. Then he would fall into line with the cowards to criticize and mock anyone with a differnent thought than his. Hes a simple guy that hasnt ridden anything besides 12+ and 12- and this guy is trying to question what Im saying.....from his inexperience. Think how much sense that makes. YOu have no business in this discussion


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## GrizzlyBeast (Oct 18, 2014)

Deacon said:


> Grizz, THESE RIGHT HERE are why your advice is poorly received. Whether it's just internetz bravado or you're sincerely this arrogant, let me paraphrase your advice to people "_Let me bless you with my knowledge and tell you how everything you've ever learned is wrong_".
> 
> Even when you have moments of clarity and post something accurate, it's rarely going to be taken well when it's delivered in this manner.




You have to look at who I was responding to in those messages. Of course they are going to be exaggerated and maybe with a bit of harmful intention. look at what the person was saying to me lol. If someone comes up and punches me im not going to just stand there. Im going to punch back harder. Give me respect and youll get the same back. You didnt start off well.


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## Argo (Feb 25, 2010)

Grizzledbreasts, Your lack of tact is what makes you a dipshit in most peoples cyber opinions. Maybe your right, maybe your wrong, none of it matters because you toss your opinion out there like it's the end all be all. Given your approach, your all wrong. Camber isn't the only thing in the world and it isn't the best, except in your head. Positive stance also isn't the best, except in your head. It's obvious to people like me that actually ride a lot that you ride one way, one style. That isn't the type of person I take an opinion of, it's called bias to what you like. 

I know this is hard to believe but the way you ride isn't the only way to ride. 

For the record, I ride +15/-6 with a 23" stance for all mountain and can ride it switch comfortably. 

When I teach someone new I will throw an equal duck stance on and observe what there actual dominant side is, the whole slide in your socks or push someone isn't exactly accurate. After a couple days of actually learning to turn I will adjust their stance slightly for what is comfortable to them. 

This will probably be my only post again in response to the grizzledbreast on this thread because this person is a hardheaded dipshit troll. Likely living on the front range in FoCo or "the springs" and getting on snow a max of 25 days. I rank this person up there with DC and jetfalcon.....


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## ridinbend (Aug 2, 2012)

GrizzlyBeast said:


> The manner in which you guys respond to my posts only proves my point further. Its like shining a spotlight on yourself to show others who you really are.
> 
> WE all know that deacon rides at a tiny resort where the big fish ride duck stance and spin around all day in the park. So Deacon...being the douche that he is....wants to be cool like those guys. SO Deacon sets his snowboard up that way.
> 
> Since Deacon has a huge ego....anyone trying to give him advice or tell him to change anything would be too much to handle for him. Then he would fall into line with the cowards to criticize and mock anyone with a differnent thought than his. Hes a simple guy that hasnt ridden anything besides 12+ and 12- and this guy is trying to question what Im saying.....from his inexperience. Think how much sense that makes. YOu have no business in this discussion


I don't like your tone


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## chomps1211 (Mar 30, 2011)

GrizzlyBeast said:


> You have to look at who I was responding to in those messages. Of course they are going to be exaggerated and maybe with a bit of harmful intention. look at what the person was saying to me lol. If someone comes up and punches me im not going to just stand there. Im going to punch back harder. *Give me respect and youll get the same back. You didnt start off well.*


You lying fucking shitstain of a trolling ass hat!!!

_YOU_ came into *OUR* house spouting your _"I'm fucking awesome & All of You don't know how to ride a snowboard properly!"_

You want Respect,..???? FOR WHAT????? You have show Us NONE!!! You haven't proved that you even know the first fucking thing about anything. _"Someone Punches,.. You'll punch back,..??"_ WTF??

How about some _STRANGER_ comes into *MY* house and starts mouthing off to me and my family about how we don't know shit?????

You're lucky you'r asshole hasn't been reamed out to the size of the Holland Tunnel! 

*So far,..? It only just big enough for your head with just enough room so you can talk out of it!!!! But then again,.. that is it's original state! *

Fuck Off You Frakkin' Troll!


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## radiomuse210 (Sep 5, 2014)

Mizu Kuma said:


> Your feet are gonna love you from that day onward!!!!! :laugh:


Yes!! I switched to a pair of 32 dual boas and I LOVE them! I've worn boots with traditional laces, single boa, and fast track/speed lacing - and dual boa gives me the best fit the easiest/quickest. Plus they are super comfy and supportive at the same time.


Edit: Oh...seems I've joined the thread at the wrong time. Guys, why does everyone keep responding to this dude? No one wins an 'internet argument' ever. The tone of this thread has turned really shitty. Granted, it only does so when he pops up, but if people ignore him when he posts something nasty instead of responding, the negativity won't multiply.


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## GrizzlyBeast (Oct 18, 2014)

chomps1211 said:


> You lying fucking shitstain of a trolling ass hat!!!
> 
> _YOU_ came into *OUR* house spouting your _"I'm fucking awesome & All of You don't know how to ride a snowboard properly!"_
> 
> ...


Chomps....might want to wipe that foam and spittle from around your mouth lol. If you were to go back read your comments to me from the very beginning when I have 0 posts....you will see that you are wrong. If you were to take all of these posts and commments to a psychiatrist or a thoughtful person....a thinking person would acknowledge how rational I actually am....and how irrational others have been. Also...my advice to help you heal was sincere...and I said a prayer for you.


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## chomps1211 (Mar 30, 2011)

GrizzlyBeast said:


> ….Also...my advice to help you heal was sincere...and I said a prayer for you.


*Fuck your advice!!!* Here it is,.. two posts back!!! OooooooH magic! 

Unless you've gone back and altered those posts,..? Which I wouldn't put past you? You're a lying Tard!!

So, spittle and all,… *Fuck You and your prayers! *:finger1: I will heal well enough on my own without your voodoo, hippie bullshit! Once I have recovered enough to hit the slopes again,..? *I'll out fucking ride your lame ass any day of the week, and twice on fucking sunday!* :finger1:


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## GrizzlyBeast (Oct 18, 2014)

chomps1211 said:


> Unless you've gone back and altered those posts,..? Which I wouldn't put past you? You're a lying Tard!!
> 
> So, spittle and all,… *Fuck You and your prayers! *:finger1: I will heal well enough on my own without your voodoo, hippie bullshit! Once I have recovered enough to hit the slopes again,..? *I'll out fucking ride your lame ass any day of the week, and twice on fucking sunday!* :finger1:



How would i go back and alter posts lol.

Chomps...even though weve gone back and forth...i get the feeling that if you and I were to sit down and have some beers we would get along.


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## chomps1211 (Mar 30, 2011)

GrizzlyBeast said:


> How would i go back and alter posts lol.


Oh yeah,… _Your_ the "Thinker" around here! 

Take a look 2 posts back,… You know exactly how to alter a post! Dumb ass!


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## GrizzlyBeast (Oct 18, 2014)

chomps1211 said:


> Oh yeah,… _Your_ the "Thinker" around here!
> 
> Take a look 2 posts back,… You know exactly how to alter a post! Dumb ass!



See Chomps...the snare is set and you walk right into it. Yes there is an edit function. I have edited a few posts mostly a minute or two into of each other. Guess what...it says the time and date it was edited. Busted. 

Also its You're...which means "you are". Your is used when describing your car.


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## OU812 (Feb 2, 2013)

I buy snowboards based on colour and graphics, thats how I gauge how awesome they will be to ride.


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## chomps1211 (Mar 30, 2011)

OK folks,… If you have an issue with my reaction to this stink bug of a troll? All I can offer in the way of explanation,.. I'm very protective of friends and family!

Taking some of my reactions to this troll, (…and a few of the other trolling dip shits from days of Yore!) One might get the impression that I am one of those rude, loud guys who likes to fight! Actually,.. Nothing could be further from the truth! Usually in public, out 'n' about,..? I'm ridiculously polite and quite!! (…it's why I liked and got such a laugh out of my "creepOsaurus rep here!) 

*However,…* Insult, disrespect, threaten, someone close to me,..?? My Family? Close friend! Disrespect me _IN MY OWN HOME?????_ *Oh HELL NO!!!!!*

You'd _better_ be one tough assed hardcase muther fucker,.. cuz _unless you kill me,..???_ I'm gonna tear your fucking head off and shit down your wind pipe!!! (Or in Gizz's case shit down *YOU'RE* wind pipe!) You actually thought you one up'd me over one overlooked spelling mistake??? Pfffffffttt! What an Asshat!

I've gone toe to toe with the best of the Grammar Nazi's this site has to offer!!! *Props to Grey Dragon!!! * You're a _"Jive assed turkey on a cold front"_ by comparison!


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

Question went down in x pages of argue with troll... thus a little bump...



neni said:


> HeyTT, wanna give an oblivious snowboard tech noob a lesson? I've only vague ideas but actually don't really know...
> Just tried to twist the three boards I have at home. The Ride Farah will twist a tiny bit (dunno, 4mm...? Is that a lot or little?), the Jones Mothership a bit less, the Flag - it made me huff n laugh - did only make my knees n hands hurt but twist = zero.
> 
> How does torsional and longitudinal stiffness translate on snow? How would e.g. a tors. stiff + long. soft board compare to one vice versa? What's the good and bad and when/for what?
> ...



And +100 to this vv, everybody, sweet please topped with a cherry...?! 


radiomuse210 said:


> *Guys, why does everyone keep responding to this dude? No one wins an 'internet argument' ever. The tone of this thread has turned really shitty. Granted, it only does so when he pops up, but if people ignore him when he posts something nasty instead of responding, the negativity won't multiply.*


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## chomps1211 (Mar 30, 2011)

neni said:


> ….And +100 to this vv, everybody, *sweet please topped with a cherry...?!*


Since you usually like to know the correct way to phrase for these various idioms,…

..It's "_Pretty Please with a Cherry on Top!_"  :jumping1: (..sometimes, it Pretty please with sugar on it!)
Yeah,.. I'm done! Said my piece, given my reasons for them,.. So,.. I'm done! Neni can enjoy her cherry topped sunday now!  :lol:


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## radiomuse210 (Sep 5, 2014)

chomps1211 said:


> Since you usually like to know the correct way to phrase for these various idioms,…
> 
> ..It's "_Pretty Please with a Cherry on Top!_"  :jumping1: (..sometimes, it Pretty please with sugar on it!)
> Yeah,.. I'm done! Said my piece, given my reasons for them,.. So,.. I'm done! Neni can enjoy her cherry topped sunday now!  :lol:


dammit chomps now _I_ want a cherry topped sundae. Brusters might be getting a visit from me here in a bit... :tongue4:


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## chomps1211 (Mar 30, 2011)

radiomuse210 said:


> dammit chomps now _I_ want a cherry topped sundae. Brusters might be getting a visit from me here in a bit... :tongue4:


….with L-o-o-o-o-ts of whipped cream and hot fudge!


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

chomps1211 said:


> Since you usually like to know the correct way to phrase for these various idioms,…
> 
> ..It's "_Pretty Please with a Cherry on Top!_"  :jumping1: (..sometimes, it Pretty please with sugar on it!)
> Yeah,.. I'm done! Said my piece, given my reasons for them,.. So,.. I'm done! Neni can enjoy her cherry topped sunday now!  :lol:


Thanks, honestly. I'll try to remember... my brain is reluctant to pick up new words/idioms lately. Been leo-ing "perception" for the felt 100th time today, can't memorize that stupid word


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## Donutz (May 12, 2010)

OK, I've had enough. He's gone.

Knowledge isn't about knowing the right answer. It's about knowing the difference between fact, best practices, and opinion.

And wisdom is about knowing not to piss off the moderators by being in the middle of every shitstorm.

Now can I _please_ finish my coffee?


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## radiomuse210 (Sep 5, 2014)

Donutz said:


> OK, I've had enough. He's gone.
> 
> Knowledge isn't about knowing the right answer. It's about knowing the difference between fact, best practices, and opinion.
> 
> ...



Ah thank you...it brought a real negative vibe to an otherwise positive and friendly forum community. Sundaes for everyone!


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## Deacon (Mar 2, 2013)

So...... play with your stances, see what happens. See how it feels. Listen to your knees though.


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## chomps1211 (Mar 30, 2011)

Deacon said:


> So...... play with your stances, see what happens. See how it feels. Listen to your knees though.


Hmnnnnn,… I wonder if a +/+ stance wouldn't be better?
:hairy::crazy2::rofl4::rofl4::rofl4::rofl4:


….sorry, was that considered gloating? Don't want to gloat, just want to be funny!!!


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## midnightcaper (Mar 23, 2013)

Good lord I don't check the forum for a couple of days and and he'll breaks loose! Where's my damn popcorn! Lol


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## chomps1211 (Mar 30, 2011)

When I was riding at +21/-9, I did get some pain in my back knee. Now at those angles I was at the linit of what I had read you should keep the "degree of spread" for your angles. i.e., it shouldn't exceed 30°. 

At +18/-12 I'm still at the max 30° spread but my back knee no longer hurt! At least not until I increased the width of my stance. Then both knees hurt a bit before I added some DIY cant to my Cartels. That seemed to help that. (although I did that close to seasons end last year so not a LOT of riding with canting yet to be certain of the benefits.)

Lots of variable you will work out over the years, _and_ as your body or riding changes too!!!


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## Mizu Kuma (Apr 13, 2014)

Deacon said:


> So...... play with your stances, see what happens. See how it feels. Listen to your knees though.


But how do I interpret those "clicking" sounds?????


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## Mizu Kuma (Apr 13, 2014)

GrizzlyBeast said:


> If you knew what the benefits of having positive angles were...you would understand what im trying to tell new snowboard riders. Im at a higher level of riding. Im not trying to be mean but I would imagine that you dont understand how to ride fast comfortably or carve properly etc.


Says the guy that's gonna try + - angles this season?????

Ohhhh damn, looks like I'm not gonna get the Legend's response????? 

We'll all pray for you!!!!! :embarrased1:


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## Extazy (Feb 27, 2014)

chomps1211 said:


> At +18/-12* I'm still at the max 30° spread *but my back knee no longer hurt! At least not until I increased the width of my stance. Then both knees hurt a bit before I added some DIY cant to my Cartels. That seemed to help that. (although I did that close to seasons end last year so not a LOT of riding with canting yet to be certain of the benefits.)
> 
> Lots of variable you will work out over the years, _and_ as your body or riding changes too!!!


I think you're too focused on that number. Shaun white rides 12° Front, -3° Back. Jeremy Jones is 15° Front, -9° Back, Terje Haakonsen 21° Front, 6° Back, Torstein is +15° Front, -12° Back.

It's all comes down to preference. Torstein also likes shorter boards with 22.5 inches wide. Dont you think that 30° is way to restricting?


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## chomps1211 (Mar 30, 2011)

Extazy said:


> I think you're too focused on that number. Shaun white rides 12° Front, -3° Back. Jeremy Jones is 15° Front, -9° Back, Terje Haakonsen 21° Front, 6° Back, Torstein is +15° Front, -12° Back.
> 
> It's all comes down to preference. Torstein also likes shorter boards with 22.5 inches wide. Dont you think that 30° is way to restricting?


You're missing the point. All of those stances you mentioned are under a 30° spread between front & back foot. The point I was making is that I have read that it's not a good idea to take the spread beyond 30°. That it was bad for the knees or something.

i.e. it wouldn't be a good idea to go with say a +24/-15 for your angles! That's a spread of 39°. (24+15=39!) Get it? I don't really like narrower angles myself! I don't like to ride at something like +12°/-6° or 15°/-3° etc.! That's not my preference. I prefer a wider ducked stance. I Have from day one. It's just the exact angling of the front to back foot I've had to finesse over time!


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## Extazy (Feb 27, 2014)

chomps1211 said:


> You're missing the point. All of those stances you mentioned are under a 30° spread between front & back foot.  The point I was making is that I have read that it's not a good idea to take the spread beyond 30°. That it was bad for the knees or something.
> 
> i.e. it wouldn't be a good idea to go with say a +24/-15 for your angles! That's a spread of 39°. (24+15=39!) Get it? I don't really like narrower angles myself! I don't like to ride at something like +12°/-6° or 15°/-3° etc.! That's not my preference. I prefer a wider ducked stance. I Have from day one. It's just the exact angling of the front to back foot I've had to finesse over time!


Ah, for some reason I though you aiming to be exactly 30° all the time for some reason. My bad.


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## chomps1211 (Mar 30, 2011)

Extazy said:


> Ah, for some reason I though you aiming to be exactly 30° all the time for some reason. My bad.


No prob. Yeah, It just happens that My preferred riding and comfort angles are at a 30° spread! Oddly,.. I really hated it when I tried a 15/15 ducked stance! :shrug: lol. I might have to bring them in some if the knees keep bugging me after the DIY canting and such. Might have to narrow my stance again too!

Gettin' old & rickety sucks! :laugh:


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## ML16 (Jul 28, 2014)

OT, ride whats comfortable for you. Play around until you find a sweet spot.


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## Ravaging Rami (Mar 11, 2014)

I ride symmetrical duck, so I have a question to you that ride with more angle on the front foot than the back:
Does it feel at all weird to ride switch like that? Or is it just something to overcome?

I ride duck because I thought that would make it easier to ride switch if both feet are the same, but I may try less angle in the back this season just to experiment.


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## chomps1211 (Mar 30, 2011)

Ravaging Rami said:


> I ride symmetrical duck, so I have a question to you that ride with more angle on the front foot than the back:
> Does it feel at all weird to ride switch like that? Or is it just something to overcome?
> 
> I ride duck because I thought that would make it easier to ride switch if both feet are the same, but I may try less angle in the back this season just to experiment.


I don't think so, but then I've been riding switch _almost_ as soon as I first started linking turns.

That was in Feb of '11! I was often spinning all the way round to fakie on a lot of my turns. (My NooB riding technique and shoulder/hip alignment was so poor I would sometimes just keep on goin' round after I turned.) So I sorta got used to riding straight a bit in switch and spinning back a round to regular whenever that happened! I was riding +21°/-9° at the time. 

Next season, winter of 2011/12, I took a lesson specifically for switch, because try as I might,.. I couldn't link a single turn while riding switch. I figured it *had* to be the cambered, directional, 2 inch set back board I was riding! (_Surprise, surprise,… The board wasn't the problem!_) I was still rockin' the +21/-9 angles and by the end of that lesson?
I could comfortably ride the entire beginners slope switch. Top to bottom.

I will say that switch was a bit _easier_ to ride once I got on a true _twin_ board,.. but I was still using the same binding angles! So It just feels normal to me. 

I have since brought my front angles in 3° to +18, and my rear out to -12°! Riding switch isn't any harder to ride since the change!

:shrug:


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## Ravaging Rami (Mar 11, 2014)

chomps1211 said:


> I don't think so, but then I've been riding switch _almost_ as soon as I first started linking turns.
> 
> That was in Feb of '11! I was often spinning all the way round to fakie on a lot of my turns. (My NooB riding technique and shoulder/hip alignment was so poor I would sometimes just keep on goin' round after I turned.) So I sorta got used to riding straight a bit in switch and spinning back a round to regular whenever that happened! I was riding +21°/-9° at the time.
> 
> ...


I may try and play with angles more this season. I'll see what happens. Thanks!


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## chomps1211 (Mar 30, 2011)

I might add that last season I thought I'd give a symmetrical 15/15 stance a try! * I hated it!!* :shrug: I changed 'em back after 2-3 runs. 

It's pretty much all personal preference, ability, and experience!


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## radiomuse210 (Sep 5, 2014)

Ravaging Rami said:


> I ride symmetrical duck, so I have a question to you that ride with more angle on the front foot than the back:
> Does it feel at all weird to ride switch like that? Or is it just something to overcome?
> 
> I ride duck because I thought that would make it easier to ride switch if both feet are the same, but I may try less angle in the back this season just to experiment.


I don't have any problem with switch at 12+/9-, but those angles aren't too far off from each other. I'm not great at switch as I'm still learning, but so far it hasn't been difficult to learn.


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## chomps1211 (Mar 30, 2011)

radiomuse210 said:


> I don't have any problem with switch at 12+/9-, but those angles aren't too far off from each other. I'm not great at switch as I'm still learning, but so far it hasn't been difficult to learn.


radiomuse, While I'm sure you've probably already mentioned this somewhere,.. but as I'm Old and no doubt fast approaching senility,… 

How long have you been snowboarding? Seasons? Days per season, etc? Just curious!


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## radiomuse210 (Sep 5, 2014)

chomps1211 said:


> radiomuse, While I'm sure you've probably already mentioned this somewhere,.. but as I'm Old and no doubt fast approaching senility,…
> 
> How long have you been snowboarding? Seasons? Days per season, etc? Just curious!


Getting into my 4th season and around 50 days a season.

Edit: except for my first season...that was about 20-25 days.


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## Ravaging Rami (Mar 11, 2014)

chomps1211 said:


> I might add that last season I thought I'd give a symmetrical 15/15 stance a try! * I hated it!!* :shrug: I changed 'em back after 2-3 runs.
> 
> It's pretty much all personal preference, ability, and experience!


I tried that too and got some serious leg burn! It also pulled on my knees in a weird way. I think I am at 12/12 or something similar right now. I do think that a slightly wider stance allows you drive harder and it's easier to lower your center of gravity.


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## chomps1211 (Mar 30, 2011)

radiomuse210 said:


> Getting into my 4th season and around 50 days a season.


Cool! I only asked cuz of your "learning switch" comment. It's good that you're getting that nailed down early in your riding. You will hear a lot of accomplished, long time riders here say they would like to ride more switch, but it would be hard. They aren't interested in going back Like starting to learn to ride all over again!

I know a few guys who, while excellent riders? Only do enough switch to handle park tricks that require getting fakie! I can handle riding switch top to bottom on most greens & blues around here and up north,.. I can even manage to keep it together and link some fast turns switch on some steeper shit too!

I got lucky tho, and due to a quirk in my first season's technique while learning to ride,.. I kept getting spun round so I learned right away, not to fear getting turned switch. It didn't freak me out or scare me too much. 

Then in my second season, taking a lesson and learning to ride switch quite capably, on a board that is very tricky to ride switch on. Once I got myself a true twin, reg width board? Switch was easy peezy!! 

Now if I could only get over my _serious_ mental block for getting air! Lol!! :shrug:



Ravaging Rami said:


> I tried that too and got some serious leg burn! It also pulled on my knees in a weird way. I think I am at 12/12 or something similar right now. I do think that a slightly wider stance allows you drive harder and it's easier to lower your center of gravity.


I like my stance wider too,.. but I started to notice some aches in my knees after a few days riding. I didn't give it a try until later in the season last year, but I added some DIY canting to my Cartel's. 

I didn't get to spend a lot of time evaluating the benefits before the season was over, but it did seem to help.

You might find that your stance _width_ has more to do with any knee pain than your binder angles. (...although I imagine they could certainly combine to cause negative results & knee problems!)


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## Ravaging Rami (Mar 11, 2014)

chomps1211 said:


> Cool! I only asked cuz of your "learning switch" comment. It's good that you're getting that nailed down early in your riding. You will hear a lot of accomplished, long time riders here say they would like to ride more switch, but it would be hard. They aren't interested in going back Like starting to learn to ride all over again!
> 
> I know a few guys who, while excellent riders? Only do enough switch to handle park tricks that require getting fakie! I can handle riding switch top to bottom on most greens & blues around here and up north,.. I can even manage to keep it together and link some fast turns switch on some steeper shit too!
> 
> ...


My shoulders aren't the widest so I do think it could have been the width that was bothering me. I spend an awful lot of time fiddling with angles... It can't be that important!
Can't wait for the season to start :slobber:


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## radiomuse210 (Sep 5, 2014)

chomps1211 said:


> Cool! I only asked cuz of your "learning switch" comment. It's good that you're getting that nailed down early in your riding. You will hear a lot of accomplished, long time riders here say they would like to ride more switch, but it would be hard. They aren't interested in going back Like starting to learn to ride all over again!


Yeah - I never went through a phase of "am I goofy or regular" like some people do and they end trying a decent bit of both which gets them more comfortable switch. I've been skateboarding off and on since high school and wakeboarded for a couple of summers, so I knew right away I'm goofy til the end. But like you said...I don't want to feel like I'm going too far backwards to learn switch properly, so I force myself to do more things switch than just land a feature, ride away for a second, then promptly turn back around. I'm getting there!


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## chomps1211 (Mar 30, 2011)

radiomuse210 said:


> ….I force myself to do more things switch than just land a feature, ride away for a second, then promptly turn back around. I'm getting there!


Awesome! 

I actually got accidentally airborne near the end of my first partial season. I went into the park intending just to ride over a couple of the rollers they had the kickers for the jumps built on. No intention to actually hit a jump, just see how it felt to get a little negative G's riding over the rollers.

Well, I misjudged my speed I guess, cuz next thing you know, I'm 5-6 ft off the ground. Totally freaking out,.. rollin' the windows and screamin'! Thank goodness for warm spring slush! I landed on my ass and left a _huge_ old guy crater in the snow. 

Ever since,..? I really freak and wind up bailing or slamming on the brakes everytime I try anything bigger than a lame little ollie! :embarrased1: :embarrased1: :laugh: 

I was hoping for some "DeeP ShiT" this year so maybe I could get past that fear and mental block. Easier and a _LOT_ less scary to risk a face/ass plant in 20-30+ inches of fresh than on iced over hardpack! lol!


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## radiomuse210 (Sep 5, 2014)

chomps1211 said:


> Awesome!
> 
> I actually got accidentally airborne near the end of my first partial season. I went into the park intending just to ride over a couple of the rollers they had the kickers for the jumps built on. No intention to actually hit a jump, just see how it felt to get a little negative G's riding over the rollers.
> 
> ...


No doubt about it. And those mental blocks will get you and pretty much make you fall. I had a huge one when I first started in the park because I had just gotten over a concussion - and even with a helmet, concussions are still possible. But once I took a deep breath, hit the box, and landed it...whoa my confidence went through the roof! It's funny because now to me it's this little box, nothing really to it - but at the time you might as well have asked me to jump off a cliff like those dudes in Higher. Plus the landings to those features can get sketchy in the slush. After a bunch of people hit it, they form a trough in the slush/snow below the box where you land - and if you don't land right in that trough (like on the edge of it so that you're not on flat ground), you can get tossed pretty easily. Really hoping for some cold temps and nice snow! :jumping1:


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## TimelessDescent (Oct 26, 2014)

radiomuse210 said:


> Yeah - I never went through a phase of "am I goofy or regular" like some people do and they end trying a decent bit of both which gets them more comfortable switch. I've been skateboarding off and on since high school and wakeboarded for a couple of summers, so I knew right away I'm goofy til the end. But like you said...I don't want to feel like I'm going too far backwards to learn switch properly, so I force myself to do more things switch than just land a feature, ride away for a second, then promptly turn back around. I'm getting there!



I never went through that phase either. I always knew i was regular. I skateboarded before snowboarding also. 

For new boarders who are unsure of their stance i would recommend to run across a slippery wood floor in socks and then slide, or run on some slick snow/ice and then slide. Most people wont even be thinking about it and will reveal their natural stance automatically.


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## radiomuse210 (Sep 5, 2014)

TimelessDescent said:


> I never went through that phase either. I always knew i was regular. I skateboarded before snowboarding also.
> 
> For new boarders who are unsure of their stance i would recommend to run across a slippery wood floor in socks and then slide, or run on some slick snow/ice and then slide. Most people wont even be thinking about it and will reveal their natural stance automatically.


Haha I explained it to a friend who was learning like this - go to a food store and hop on a shopping cart to push yourself through the store. Which foot is pushing? But you have to try not to think about it - just do it naturally.  When I first got on a skateboard, I didn't know anything about goofy or regular riding. I just got on it and started going. Just so happened my right foot is forward. Even when kickboxing, when I'm doing punches, my right foot is forward while most people have their left forward.
The sliding method works pretty good as well. Mostly you just have to feel it out.


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## TimelessDescent (Oct 26, 2014)

radiomuse210 said:


> Haha I explained it to a friend who was learning like this - go to a food store and hop on a shopping cart to push yourself through the store. Which foot is pushing? But you have to try not to think about it - just do it naturally.  When I first got on a skateboard, I didn't know anything about goofy or regular riding. I just got on it and started going. Just so happened my right foot is forward. Even when kickboxing, when I'm doing punches, my right foot is forward while most people have their left forward.
> The sliding method works pretty good as well. Mostly you just have to feel it out.



That shopping cart idea is really good! I thought i had the best one til now. Yours is especially good since everyone young and old has pushed a shopping cart more than a few times in their life. Anyone with a little pep out in the parking lot has probably rested their foot on the cart many times and pedaled it fast. I know I did when I was a kid...riding wheelies etc. I sometimes still do. Good stuff!


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## Rotcoddam411 (Jun 19, 2014)

radiomuse210 said:


> Haha I explained it to a friend who was learning like this - go to a food store and hop on a shopping cart to push yourself through the store. Which foot is pushing? But you have to try not to think about it - just do it naturally.  When I first got on a skateboard, I didn't know anything about goofy or regular riding. I just got on it and started going. Just so happened my right foot is forward. Even when kickboxing, when I'm doing punches, my right foot is forward while most people have their left forward.
> The sliding method works pretty good as well. Mostly you just have to feel it out.


Reading all these, I feel like I'm the only one who skates regular but snowboard goofy... Just makes sense too me, in skating the back leg does most of the work but in snowboarding the front leg does.. Mhm?


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