# Bataleon Snowboards: Pros? Cons?



## blunted_nose (Apr 26, 2012)

What i noticed owning my lobster board is edge hold was lacking, speed was amazing, edge to edge took no effort, you get confidence on such a forgiving board, it was really stiff even when rated mid stiff on the website and lastly the pow performance was better because of tbt but still not the board id like if theres a serious storm. i liked tbt and would consider it again.


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## taco tuesday (Jul 26, 2014)

Ok, don't jump down my throat here. I have not ridden a Bataleon but I own an Echelon from last year with a similar base shape to tbt. It SUCKS on ice. With decent conditions it is a fun, loose, playful, catch free board. On ice that "catch free" turns into "no f'ing edge hold". I literally could not even slowly traverse on my heel edge on one steep icy trail. I unstrapped and walked down. Yesterday conditions were a bit better than last week so I took it for a few runs in the afternoon and was fine for the most part. I would not pick a board with lifted edges if it was going to be my only board.


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## cav0011 (Jan 4, 2009)

I have lots of experience with bataleons. They are nothing like echelons. 
When the board is flat the edges between the bindings are in contact with the snow. The boards are camber and hold a edge like camber. The key difference is that you need to be somewhat further on edge to engage the contact points. This leads many people to feel like they donelt hold an edge because they do not commit to the turn. 

Having said that they do not feel like most boards. When you turn it feels more like you are rolling onto your edge instead of it grabbing right away. Some people like this sensation others hate it. 

I had the jam. I hated it, the board is very stiff and felt like riding a plank. This was prior to bataleon changing factories so the board might be a bit different feeling now.


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## BurtonAvenger (Aug 14, 2007)

There's a few different versions of the TBT. You have to find the one that matches your riding profile. Too much it sucks, too little you don't notice it. etc. etc. 

Pro: If you're hitting park features it does elevate the contact points. 
Con: On edge sometimes you lose that edge bite right at the tips that you need with camber. 
Con: Have fun getting a good stone grind, most shops are too incompetent to know how to do it right. 
Pro: It is camber if you like that.


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## BoardChitless (Mar 11, 2013)

For my style, and my most routine riding.. I rave about my Bataleon. I want to jump ship to a stiffer Jam within the next 2yrs. My Omni 3yrs ago has changed my game. In all good ways for my own style. Just getting back from Vermont is another wkn of Bataleon raves. Out in Canada, it was a dream.

They don't have magne or mellow magne, so the serrated knife gripping edge hold isn't there when needed for the NE, but everything else about them is ridiculous. Only thing you don't want are last year's '14 model imo as they were crafted at the new facility in Dubai at SWS. Although, I could be wrong, and soon being, SWS may be putting out the best boards in the world. They are notorious for sick kite and wake boards nonetheless. This facility makes sense for the factory and a co looking for marginal profits, but I still question new beginnings, and the wood fiber origination for winter sports. So, now the branding co Yeah for It is at the capita factory that was once the Elan. Yes and some other co's are moving to SWS, so don't hold me to '14 model being a dud. I just believe in craftmanship from GST and now this capita factory.

Still question SWS.. To not bore you, the 3BT is the truth if you like to be quicker on your edges, and catch less in tight chit within spotty glade runs. I fly by all my bro's on the catwalk with the way the bottom drag hits the snow for the most part and not to boast, on the mountain 90% of the time. So, any time I don't have to unstrap some on those wkn days it really makes me appreciate my Omni. 

In my personal opinion, they are the co with the true tech when it comes to a "hybrid" with 3BT. 

Let's be frank.. It fits an application and/or style of ridin'.

Personally think Mervin and most magne boards are more for the ice coast likings even tho being manu'd in the PNW. If you like speed tho, get a Bataleon.


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## BoardChitless (Mar 11, 2013)

BurtonAvenger said:


> There's a few different versions of the TBT. You have to find the one that matches your riding profile. Too much it sucks, too little you don't notice it. etc. etc.
> 
> Pro: If you're hitting park features it does elevate the contact points.
> Con: On edge sometimes you lose that edge bite right at the tips that you need with camber.
> ...


10 4 right there... Biggest con is a board shop who can really do a grind right, and also not get confused on your contact edges for sharpening. I have only had 2 out of 6 sharpenings I liked. My last sharpening sucked.


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## BoardChitless (Mar 11, 2013)

I think I'm actually wrong, '14 models are from SBF.

Basically, I question the '14 model from SBF and also boards in the new SWS facility.

3BT on the whole.. Is the truth.


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## BurtonAvenger (Aug 14, 2007)

SBF boards were straight junk. SWS is better. WAY BETTER.


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## blunted_nose (Apr 26, 2012)

whats sbf and sws? ones elan and one dubai?


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## BurtonAvenger (Aug 14, 2007)

One's SBF and one is SWS. Two different factories.


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## SnowDragon (Apr 23, 2012)

Thanks to all for the input!

I guess the next step is to (try and) demo one.

3BT just seems like a more logical option over RCR if one is looking for a less catchy camber board.
Correct, or no?


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## cav0011 (Jan 4, 2009)

Correct. At least imo


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## honeycomb (Feb 6, 2011)

Definitely try to demo one if you can. Most people either love the feel or hate it.

I love both of mine(Evil Twin and Fun.Kink) and I'm on the ice coast too. Super fast turning edge to edge, edge hold as good as anything else without magnetraction. On the rare occasion we get some powder they float very well. ET is excellent for jumps and bombing down the mountain. Fun.Kink is softer and more playful for rails and tight riding in trees.

The downsides have already been mentioned and I agree with them. You have to set the edge a bit harder and with more angle than a traditional board to get the same edge hold. It can also feel a bit squirrely at high speeds at first with the raised edges, but it's actually very stable and absorbs chop and bad snow really well, if that makes sense...

If you're into park riding the raised edges will save your ass on sketchy landings and is more forgiving on rails.

I do love mine and will always keep at least one to ride, but my next board will probably be something with magnetraction for the really icy days.

Not sure where on the ice coast you are but if you're near me let me know and I'll let you demo mine.


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## Triple8Sol (Nov 24, 2008)

I owned and rode just about every board in the Bataleon lineup when it was first introduced, and I loved TBT...most of the time. The reason I moved on was edgehold for charging technical lines (and icy days). It never limited my speed or linechoice per say, but the same tech that reduces the catchiness also reduces the bite when you I really needed it most, and overall I just wanted to feel more confidence. Since I hardly ride park anymore and always keep a pow-specific board in the quiver these days, they no longer fit my needs for an AM board.

I think they mellowed out the angle and played with the placement since then, so I'm guessing they may be better now. Either way still great tech in killer boards for park, pow, and beginner/intermediate riders. That said, I am interested in what the newer 3D shapes feel like from the later entrants like Rome, Burton, Echelon, etc...

Oh and as BA said, getting someone to do a base grind properly is tricky. Make sure to take it to a shop that actually sells them or has someone there who rides them personally. I used to get it done at SnoCon, of course they're gone now. It's almost easier with a ski machine rather than a snowboard specific one. Oh and scraping can be a bitch too, since you have to be more careful along the angled edges where the rise begins.


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## tdc_worm (Jun 23, 2011)

Just to add a little color: 

I have owned a Jam, an Omni and an Undisputed (now out of production). My GF owns a Violenze and an Omni. We have been snowboarding for 20 or so years and wakeboarding just as long.

Edging: If you have ever ridden a wakeboard, TBT rolls on to edge progressively, similar to a wakeboard...its not an immediate, hard hook up. 

Effective Edge: As others have said, you have to roll harder on edge to get the board to really hook up in bullet proof conditions. Because the edges start to rise from the inserts (depending on TBT flavor) out to the contact points, the effective edge is a bit short and then gets progressively longer the closer you get to the tips.

Stiffness: It affects that hookup. The floppier the TBT, the more the nose/tail are going to push up before setting the edge (same as any other board, but it is exacerbated by TBT).

All in all, my Jam and her Violenza are perfect all mountain daily drivers. We tried to live with rocker and hybrid rocker boards for about three seasons (Lib, Gnu, Smokin, etc), and found that we missed the power, stability, and pop of a camber board, more than we like the addition of Magne. In anything under a foot of fresh these are our go to boards. In a back to back day with a TRice pro model and my Jam...I liked the Jam...both exhibited similar catch free, but the camber of the Jam was more stable, poppier, and faster.

As far as pow is concerned, the advantage of TBT starts to dissipate quickly...that is unless you pow day has to involve a lot of groomers to get back to the lift line. Their marketing would have you believe otherwise.


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## BoardChitless (Mar 11, 2013)

^^^ is some solid info worm


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## timmytard (Mar 19, 2009)

tdc_worm said:


> Just to add a little color:
> 
> I have owned a Jam, an Omni and an Undisputed (now out of production). My GF owns a Violenze and an Omni. We have been snowboarding for 20 or so years and wakeboarding just as long.
> 
> ...


And I agreed with everything you said, right up to the part about the powder.

I didn't like that feeling transitioning from edge to edge.
On a hard pack day I did one run & that was it. Hated it.

But I like the idea always have.

Took it out in a foot & a half of fresh this year & I thought it was great.
For powder I would go as extreme as you could, super buoyant.


TT


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## snowklinger (Aug 30, 2011)

One of my favorite things to do is boost at speed. I like to load up those camber zones and ollie the fucker.

Doing this with TBT in the tail was something I did not like. Use your imagination.

You encounter some of the same problems as you carve off the lip of a booter, although not quite as bad, as you can rely more on total edge rather than the funkyness of the tail.


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## tdc_worm (Jun 23, 2011)

timmytard said:


> And I agreed with everything you said, right up to the part about the powder.
> 
> I didn't like that feeling transitioning from edge to edge.
> On a hard pack day I did one run & that was it. Hated it.
> ...


Let me qualify my position:

1) I am 6'1" and 200lbs before gear, so surface area and float are king for deep days for me. If you are smaller, your experience may differ.
2) TBT does create more surface are, which should, in theory, translate to more float. That surface additional surface are, however is almost negligible. Furthermore, it resembles the hull of a boat, with a keel line that will ride deeper than the rest of the running surface, pushing more snow instead gliding on top of it, again, in theory.
3) I was speaking in regards to a powder specific board. There is no replacement for a rockered nose, set back, and a taperd tail when it comes to a pow specific stick. 

If I could only have one board it would be a twin shaped board with a base profile similar to TBT or one of the other types that others are exploring (endeavor comes to mind). If I have the room and funds for a pow stick, I am looking for something different.

Happy shredding either way!


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## timmytard (Mar 19, 2009)

tdc_worm said:


> Let me qualify my position:
> 
> 1) I am 6'1" and 200lbs before gear, so surface area and float are king for deep days for me. If you are smaller, your experience may differ.
> 2) TBT does create more surface are, which should, in theory, translate to more float. That surface additional surface are, however is almost negligible. Furthermore, it resembles the hull of a boat, with a keel line that will ride deeper than the rest of the running surface, pushing more snow instead gliding on top of it, again, in theory.
> ...







K here's what I know.

There isn't any more surface area, if that's what you meant?

Fold a piece of paper with 2 lines just like a TBT.

OK... Did that piece of paper just grow?



You don't need a rocker nose for a powder board.

Ever try a Dupraz?


TT


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## tdc_worm (Jun 23, 2011)

timmytard said:


> K here's what I know.
> 
> There isn't any more surface area, if that's what you meant?
> 
> ...


measure from contact to contact point from the top of the board. now measure from contact point to contact point from the riding surface of the board. did the measurement grow? yes it did, resulting in greater surface are for a given width. either way, it's marginal.




timmytard said:


> K
> 
> You don't need a rocker nose for a powder board.
> 
> ...


I agree, and I have not. as a matter of argument, you don't need any rocker or camber for any board. i am quite confident that a piece of plywood could be ridden down the hill. now do you see my point? everything is relative and there are no absolutes.


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## timmytard (Mar 19, 2009)

tdc_worm said:


> measure from contact to contact point from the top of the board. now measure from contact point to contact point from the riding surface of the board. did the measurement grow? yes it did, resulting in greater surface are for a given width. either way, it's marginal.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I don't need to measure anything.

Take whatever measurement you have for :blahblah::blahblah::blahblah:

drop the board in the snow. 
If it's not ice the board sinks into the snow.

How is it smaller when you put it in the snow?


TT


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## snowklinger (Aug 30, 2011)

*don't confuse this with being a fan of tbt, i don't think it works that great anyway*

i'm gonna break it down for you real simple timmy, try to keep up.

__

and 

\/

have equal width

the lower one has way more surface area touching your "soft snow not ice"

this is what is happening with tbt, and what he is talking about.

its not blah blah blah, its real


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## tdc_worm (Jun 23, 2011)

timmytard said:


> I don't need to measure anything.
> 
> Take whatever measurement you have for :blahblah::blahblah::blahblah:
> 
> ...


okay. lets use public school geometry...which i wasnt very good at. can we agree that the nose/tail are "spoon" shaped on TBT boards? If you disagree then stop reading now.

if you do agree, then the cross section of a spoon looks similar to a circle that is cut in half. we know from our public school geometry the following:

d = diameter
pi*d = circumference
pi = 3.14

because of the 3.14 factor, the surface area of any curved surface is going to be greater than the surface area of a flat surface. now, we know that the nose/tail are not perfect half sections of a circle, so their "pi" factor will be different, but it will not be zero.

I think you are referring to footprint....but that doesnt change how much PTex is touch the snow....whereas surface area does.

drive a post in to the ground. whether the hole is 1 foot or 2 feet deep, the hole is only as wide as the post (footprint), whereas there is a lot more post touching the dirt at two feet deep (surface area).

you are not debating with me, you are debating with basic geometry.


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## timmytard (Mar 19, 2009)

tdc_worm said:


> okay. lets use public school geometry...which i wasnt very good at. can we agree that the nose/tail are "spoon" shaped on TBT boards? If you disagree then stop reading now.
> 
> if you do agree, then the cross section of a spoon looks similar to a circle that is cut in half. we know from our public school geometry the following:
> 
> ...


Dude, how ever big that fuckin' snowboard is?

When you put it in the snow & the entire base is touching the snow.

It's the same fuckin' size.


TT


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## timmytard (Mar 19, 2009)

Regardless of whatever profile it has.

However big the surface area is when it's sitting on your table.

Is the same fuckin' size when the wholes base is touching the snow.

It's the same fuckin' size.

You can't measure a board on the table & somehow come up with a different number when you measure it in the snow.

TT


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## timmytard (Mar 19, 2009)

It's the same fuckin' board here kids.

I'm not comparing 2 different boards.

TBT is the same fuckin' size on your table or the snow


TT


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## tdc_worm (Jun 23, 2011)

timmytard said:


> Dude, how ever big that fuckin' snowboard is?
> 
> When you put it in the snow & the entire base is touching the snow.
> 
> ...


you are correct. the size of the board does not change when you put it in the snow...it is the same size. its also the same size if you put it in the microwave or in your anus. it is what it is. 

geometry is also geometry whether we are talking about skate ramps, stop signs or snowboards.

that your user name is also what it is is making this too funny, haha, until you realize that it is an indictment of our public school system.

lets do this: take a circle with a 1' diameter. take a sphere with a 1'. which one would require more paint to cover the entire surface?


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## SnowDragon (Apr 23, 2012)

Can't wait for the resolution of this debate!

:drinking:


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## timmytard (Mar 19, 2009)

tdc_worm said:


> you are correct. the size of the board does not change when you put it in the snow...it is the same size. its also the same size if you put it in the microwave or in your anus. it is what it is.
> 
> geometry is also geometry whether we are talking about skate ramps, stop signs or snowboards.
> 
> ...


What the fuck are you blabbing about you fuckin' worm?

I never said something the same width flat has the same surface area as something round.

No I didn't, did I, you fuckin' retard.

Klanger showed his little fuckin' lines & you jumped on the band wagon

Try English comprehension.


Originally I agreed with all the things you said about tbt.
k you got that.

up until you said 
"As far as pow is concerned, the advantage of TBT starts to dissipate quickly"

Except I don't like all those things we both agreed on.
I think they suck.

You think the tbt dissipates in powder.

That's where it shines, in my eyes. Hence the comment 
"For powder I would go as extreme as you could, super buoyant."


This is a comprehension test idiot. 

You failed.

Take your benwa balls out of your ass & pay attention.


TT


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## timmytard (Mar 19, 2009)

tdc_worm said:


> Let me qualify my position:
> 
> 1) I am 6'1" and 200lbs before gear, so surface area and float are king for deep days for me. If you are smaller, your experience may differ.
> 2) *TBT does create more surface are*, which should, in theory, translate to more float. That surface additional surface are, however is almost negligible. Furthermore, it resembles the hull of a boat, with a keel line that will ride deeper than the rest of the running surface, pushing more snow instead gliding on top of it, again, in theory.
> ...


No it does not.

A wider board creates more surface area.

Explain to me how tbt creates this larger surface area?

Without widening the board.


TT


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## tdc_worm (Jun 23, 2011)

timmytard said:


> What the fuck are you blabbing about you fuckin' worm?
> 
> I never said something the same width flat has the same surface area as something round.
> 
> No I didn't, did I, you fuckin' retard.


Neither did I. Reference Post #21, you gave the paper analogy. Reference Post #22 where I EXPLICITLY state "for a given width." The entire time I was speaking of boards with the same width. In post #23 is where you logic becomes fuzzy...for that given width and all else equal, a board with more surface are will not sink as far in the snow as one with less surface are. Its a matter of pounds per square inch...as surface are increases and weight stays the same, surface pressure in reduced.



timmytard said:


> Klanger showed his little fuckin' lines & you jumped on the band wagon
> 
> Try English comprehension.


Reference post number #22 where I state, again, that for a given width, the TBT is going to have more surface are. In post #23, Klanger draws the lines illustrating my point. With your superior reading comprehension skills, how did I jump on his bandwagon before he even contributed (and quite succinctly I might add)?

Oh, and as a matter of correctness, its "Reading comprehension," not "English comprehension." Good thing, I was barely able to interpret what you were saying.



timmytard said:


> Originally I agreed with all the things you said about tbt.
> k you got that.
> 
> up until you said
> ...


That you either agree with me or disagree with me on matters of opinion is of no concern. I am sure the feeling is mutual. Our different opinions lead our wallets in different directions, and I am glad we have tons of options. I attempted, perhaps poorly, in post #20 to leave everything neutral and wish everyone "happy shredding" in whatever their decision was. No where did I ever assert that your experience was anything other than your experience.

Maybe its fault of mine to use absolute things like geometry and physics. I should try getting caught up on things that are a matter of opinion so I can waste more of my time.



timmytard said:


> This is a comprehension test idiot.
> 
> You failed.
> 
> ...


I am too caught up working with your grammar and spelling to get to the "benwa balls" just yet. By the way, if my interpretation is correct, do you mean "Ben Wa balls?" Two words, both capitalized? You might also consider restructuring the "This is a comprehension test idiot" sentence. Perhaps a comma between "test" and "idiot" would be grammatically correct and assign the reader as subject of the sentence. As it is structured now, the reader is left to wonder what the subject and its modifiers are. 

At any rate, I guess I did fail at "English comprehension." Its a miracle that my "reading comprehension" level was able to save me. And I was able to respond with my most powerful adjective being "fukc"...


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## snowklinger (Aug 30, 2011)

timmytard said:


> Except I don't like all those things we both agreed on.
> I think they suck.
> 
> TT


more maths pls


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## tdc_worm (Jun 23, 2011)

timmytard said:


> No it does not.
> 
> A wider board creates more surface area.
> 
> ...


I was stuck on the spoon shape earlier (which still illustrates the point), but isnt exactly how the Bataleon is shaped. Let's make some assumptions, and in doing so, create our own TBT shape. 

First: we are working with a flat profile board that is 28cm at the contact points and TBT style board that is the same width of 28cm, shortest distance between the two contact points (as measured from the top sheet).

Second: our TBT board has a 10cm flat spot in the middle, and 0.5cm rise out to the tips. 

On our TBT board we know the length below the raised portion (28cm total width - 10cm flat spot divided by 2) to be 9cm. Because we also know the rise of 0.5cm, we now have a right triangle and can determine the length of the raised portion, which will be our hypotenuse.

Using the Pythagorean Theorem (basic geometry) we know that the square of the hypotenuse (the side opposite the right angle) is equal to the sum of the squares of the other two sides. The formula is a^2 + b^2 = c^2. 

In our problem we will make a = 9cm, b =0.5cm, and solve for c.

c = the square root of (a^2 +b^2)
c = the square root of (9*9 + 0.5*0.5)
c = the square root of (81 + 0.25)
c = the square root of (81.25)
c = 9.01488

Now that we have solved for the upturned portion, we can add it back to flat center portion to determine the actual width. Remember to add it twice as the board has two upturned edges.

9.01488 + 9.01488 + 10 = 28.02776cm.

Next assumption: Lets assume that both boards have no side cut in order to speed up the math, or a side cut radius of 0 and a running length of 100cm. 

We know that area = length x width.

The area of the flat board would be 28 x 100, or 2800cm squared.
The area of the TBT board would be 28.02776 or 2802.776cm squared.
That is a difference of 2.776cm squared, or roughly 0.09% more surface area. 

So, for a given width, the TBT board will have more surface area, but with a 0.5cm raised tips, the surface area grows by less than one tenth of one percent, which, in my opinion, is negligible. Your experience may differ.


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## tdc_worm (Jun 23, 2011)

snowklinger said:


> more maths pls


my pleasure haha...


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## timmytard (Mar 19, 2009)

Wow, you're so smart & cool.


Look at you with all the copeen & passting & spell checkerin', even "Reference Posts"
I just don't give a rats ass if my spelling is wrong.

I wish I was you. Proof reading & referencing & just being so damn smrat 




Who the fuck are you?

What have you done for anyone?

Arguing with me isn't going to build you any credibility.

And yes, you are arguing with me, because you were wrong.

Why did it take 10 fuckin' posts & still you're trying too be Mr smart guy.

I shouldn't have to be wasting my time, trying to point out your wrongness. 

Cause this statement is wrong, I had to interpret it myself though because you can't spell.
Even though I was able to figure out your retard sentence, I still asked for clarification.

"TBT does create more surface are"

Oh look you you made a spelling error

hahaha, hi Slushmut, I knew you'd be back. haha


Here watch this, I just got back from there.
https://vimeo.com/
Wow it was awesome. So go fuck yourself.

I'm goin' to whistler for a week.

TT


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## tdc_worm (Jun 23, 2011)

timmytard said:


> Wow, you're so smart & cool.
> 
> 
> Look at you with all the copeen & passting & spell checkerin', even "Reference Posts"
> ...


First, I hope your shredding was killer. I hope WBC is killer for you. I hope everyone's shredding is killer. You can continue to [attempt to] insult me all you want, and I hope one day you beat me up in person. I am not sure why you insist on attacking my character...Who am I? What have I done for anyone? I could be somebody, I may be nobody. I could be selfish, I may be generous. How is any of that germane to the topic?

Second, rest assured that none of that is copied and/or pasted. Most of us graduated high school. Some of us retained 10th grade geometry lessons. 

Third, the only reason I called out your spelling and grammar is because you attempted an insult by asserting that I failed at "English comprehension." You started that. Nothing on this message board is about proving intellect. If it insults you that I can use grammar and spell correctly, that sounds like a "you" problem, not a "me" problem. You will get over it either way.

Fourth, I am happy to be wrong. I often am wrong. When I am wrong, I grow from the error by learning more. 

Fifth, I haven't offered a single opinion when it comes to surface area. I have stated my position using geometry as evidence. You have stated your position using nothing but insults and profanity as evidence. Thanks for bringing us all up to your level.


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## BoardWalk (Mar 22, 2011)

tdc_worm said:


> Fourth, I am happy to be wrong. I often am wrong.


Well that doesn't seem right.......sorry had to do it.......


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## ItchEtrigR (Jan 1, 2012)

Your maths are sweet dude, but the width measurement is absolute, and it's before pressing. You might beat Timmy at math but you don't beat him in snowboarding.


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## timmytard (Mar 19, 2009)

tdc_worm said:


> First, I hope your shredding was killer. I hope WBC is killer for you. I hope everyone's shredding is killer. You can continue to [attempt to] insult me all you want, and I hope one day you beat me up in person. I am not sure why you insist on attacking my character...Who am I? What have I done for anyone? I could be somebody, I may be nobody. I could be selfish, I may be generous. How is any of that germane to the topic?
> 
> Second, rest assured that none of that is copied and/or pasted. Most of us graduated high school. Some of us retained 10th grade geometry lessons.
> 
> ...


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## tdc_worm (Jun 23, 2011)

BoardWalk said:


> Well that doesn't seem right.......sorry had to do it.......


haha! well played sir!


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## tdc_worm (Jun 23, 2011)

ItchEtrigR said:


> Your maths are sweet dude, but the width measurement is absolute, and it's before pressing. You might beat Timmy at math but you don't beat him in snowboarding.


Help me understand the absolute comment. Not sure what you mean by that.

Not sure why we are going with personal attacks...who cares how good or bad I am? I don't lose any sleep over it and I hope you don't either....


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## timmytard (Mar 19, 2009)

haha, that's awesome.

One click of the ignore button & poof

He died.


TT


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## tdc_worm (Jun 23, 2011)

timmytard said:


> No, really how it started.
> 
> I gave my opinion & it differed from yours.
> 
> ...


Show me where I told you your opinion was wrong, and I will own it. 

Show me where my error was, and I will own it.

Show me where I tried to change your opinion, and I will apologize. Even though I know that opinions are usually are based on facts, I do know that opinions are not the same as facts. So telling somebody they have the opinion that blondes are hotter than brunettes is a waste of time, because it is merely an opinion.

Where have a stated my "coolness" relative to anything?

I am giving you all of the opportunity in the world to substantiate your claims. Or you can just hit ignore and run and hide behind your lack of evidence.

The only thing I have done is illustrated that for a given width of board, a 3d base will have a different surface area.


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## honeycomb (Feb 6, 2011)

Simple geometry says that 2 boards with the same width, one with a flat base, and one with curved, the curved base has more surface area. Not hard to understand, but at the angles we're talking about the difference is almost negligible. 

For me I like the feel of TBT better in POW. Feels like it floats better and turns easier. Look a boat hull, do they have a flat nose? No, because a curved/tapered nose helps pick the hull up out of the water. Same idea for snow, but still, people either love TBT or hate it, which is obvious from all the bitching in this thread.


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## ItchEtrigR (Jan 1, 2012)

tdc_worm said:


> Help me understand the absolute comment. Not sure what you mean by that.
> 
> Not sure why we are going with personal attacks...who cares how good or bad I am? I don't lose any sleep over it and I hope you don't either....


The good bad part was just a joke, referring to Timmy's vid.

Absolute meaning just that. Your saying they extend the width by a percent of a millimeter to take into the account the shape to end up at a estimated width. I'm saying its not like that.


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## tdc_worm (Jun 23, 2011)

ItchEtrigR said:


> The good bad part was just a joke, referring to Timmy's vid.
> 
> Absolute meaning just that. Your saying they extend the width by a percent of a millimeter to take into the account the shape to end up at a estimated width. I'm saying its not like that.


Haha. I didn't even watch the video. Will have to look at it in a while.

Got you on the absolute thing. Good point. TBT does only run so far for sure....I was just trying to illustrate it in the simplest form. In reality the surface area growth is probably even less, and, it ironically, supports TT's point about being great in powder, haha.

As for pressing, if you are referring to "flattening" out the TBT I am sure it happens in some degree, but I have my doubts that one could completely flatten the shape at the contact points...it pretty spoon shaped/concave there.

What's funny, is all the theory in the world doesn't mean anything when terrain variations come in to play.


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## tdc_worm (Jun 23, 2011)

honeycomb said:


> Simple geometry says that 2 boards with the same width, one with a flat base, and one with curved, the curved base has more surface area. Not hard to understand, but at the angles we're talking about the difference is almost negligible.
> 
> For me I like the feel of TBT better in POW. Feels like it floats better and turns easier. Look a boat hull, do they have a flat nose? No, because a curved/tapered nose helps pick the hull up out of the water. Same idea for snow, but still, people either love TBT or hate it, which is obvious from all the bitching in this thread.


Cool. Half of my problem in pow probably has to do with me lugging my 200 lbs around, haha. My girlfriend is 130 and she thinks its great in pow. Of course, her weight on a 149 is a lot different than my weight on a 162!


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## ItchEtrigR (Jan 1, 2012)

tdc_worm said:


> Haha. I didn't even watch the video. Will have to look at it in a while.
> 
> Got you on the absolute thing. Good point. TBT does only run so far for sure....I was just trying to illustrate it in the simplest form. In reality the surface area growth is probably even less, and, it ironically, supports TT's point about being great in powder, haha.
> 
> ...


Your logic isn't flawed, just not applied when it comes to snowboard design, as you have already made it clear .06 of a millimeter isn't going to make a difference, its the shape that's important here.


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## ItchEtrigR (Jan 1, 2012)

By pressing I mean before the layup gets pressed.


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