# NeverSummer SL? You Tell Me!



## linvillegorge (Jul 6, 2009)

Personally, I'd go Proto. Decent float in powder, blunted tips mean you can downsize without giving up effective edge length, and similar flex profile to the SL - not too stiff to play and not too soft to bomb.

The Cobra doesn't make much sense for you if the majority of your riding is on the east coast. It's basically a playful powder stick. Sucks for riding switch and I found it to be twitchy on groomers. 

The Heritage is a great board, but again, for primarily east coast riding, I think it's just too much stick.

The SL is a great all-around board, but I prefer the blunted tips of the Proto. IMHO, the Proto pretty much made the SL all but obsolete.

If you really want a great powder performer, you can always demo a true pow stick when you go out west if you get lucky and get a truly deep powder day.


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## chatyak (Dec 24, 2012)

linvillegorge said:


> Personally, I'd go Proto. Decent float in powder, blunted tips mean you can downsize without giving up effective edge length, and similar flex profile to the SL - not too stiff to play and not too soft to bomb.
> 
> The Cobra doesn't make much sense for you if the majority of your riding is on the east coast. It's basically a playful powder stick. Sucks for riding switch and I found it to be twitchy on groomers.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the opinions. I read that the Proto has dampness rating similar to the EVO - which was less than the SL and heritage. Do you think this is really noticeable? Will a dampness of "4" be that much different than one of "5" on the SL?

So essentially, the Proto is an SL, with a notch down on the dampness, and blunted tips for reduced weight? 

Also - what do you mean by too much stick for the Heritage ( in regards to east coast )... too damp/heavy/stiff?

I only do this every few years and my head is spinning. Especially due to all the new stuff out there. :laugh:


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## linvillegorge (Jul 6, 2009)

You gotta remember, each manufacturer makes their own scale. That means that it's a "4" in dampness in terms of the NS lineup.

ALL NS boards are pretty damn damp.

The Heritage just loves to point and bomb. Similar to the Cobra basically being a playful pow stick, the Heritage is basically a playful bomber. That board would just be getting warmed up on each run back east as you were easing back into the lift line.


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## chatyak (Dec 24, 2012)

linvillegorge said:


> You gotta remember, each manufacturer makes their own scale. That means that it's a "4" in dampness in terms of the NS lineup.
> 
> ALL NS boards are pretty damn damp.
> 
> The Heritage just loves to point and bomb. Similar to the Cobra basically being a playful pow stick, the Heritage is basically a playful bomber. That board would just be getting warmed up on each run back east as you were easing back into the lift line.


That's a good point. For some reason when I looked at the dampness scale - I assumed industry standard, my mistake.

So the cobra is out - the heritage is out... leaves with me the Sl and Proto. Would I be able to go with a 153 and not wish I had gone with the 155?


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## linvillegorge (Jul 6, 2009)

Yes. A 153 Proto has virtually the same effective edge length as my non-blunted 158 Evo.

When it comes to dampness and stiffness, most all NS boards will be stiffer and damper than other companies' similar boards. Meaning that a NS park stick will be stiffer and damper than most companies' parks sticks, etc.

One of the reasons why I recommended against the Heritage for you is your weight. It's just going to be a lot of board for someone as light as you are.


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## chatyak (Dec 24, 2012)

linvillegorge said:


> Yes. A 153 Proto has virtually the same effective edge length as my non-blunted 158 Evo.


Wow. That's quite a difference. Could you elaborate a bit? 

I'm not fully understanding how chopping off the tip of the nose/tail gives a more effective edge (at shorter lengths).... my understanding is that the edges used to grip are simply along the sides of the board? 

Another way of saying it - how is the edge increased, simply by removing the tip of the nose. No one carves into the snow with the edge on the nose unless you are front flipping... if that makes sense? :dizzy:


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## alex12 (Dec 23, 2010)

chatyak said:


> I am 5'11 / 139 lbs


boy, you skinny!

also, consider the carbonium topsheet when making your decision. If that's something you'd like, know that the SL doesn't have it

If you want some more info on the heritage/cobra, read snowolf's review thread of the cobra. He's ridden the heritage for quite some time so he makes comparisons between the two often in his posts on that thread


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## linvillegorge (Jul 6, 2009)

With the blunted tips, the contact points are moved further out. The contact points on the Proto are much closer to the tips than on a non-blunted board, so your effective edge length is longer than comparably sized boards.

Compare this:










To my non-blunted Evo:










Not the best pics to demonstrate the difference, but hopefully you can get the point from them. But, I laid my 158 Evo beside snowklingers 153 Proto and they were virtually identical length contact point to contact point.


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## chatyak (Dec 24, 2012)

alex12 said:


> boy, you skinny!
> 
> also, consider the carbonium topsheet when making your decision. If that's something you'd like, know that the SL doesn't have it
> 
> If you want some more info on the heritage/cobra, read snowolf's review thread of the cobra. He's ridden the heritage for quite some time so he makes comparisons between the two often in his posts on that thread


haha. I'm happy with my size. Good point on the carbonium.:thumbsup:


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## chatyak (Dec 24, 2012)

linvillegorge said:


> With the blunted tips, the contact points are moved further out. The contact points on the Proto are much closer to the tips than on a non-blunted board, so your effective edge length is longer than comparably sized boards.
> 
> Compare this:
> 
> ...


Ahh I see. The blunt shape pushes the edges out as opposed to the metal edges of a thinner board being in the air.


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## chatyak (Dec 24, 2012)

Is the proto a heavier board? I'm not sure how to compare it to one I have now. Never having ridden a NS board, I have heard they are "heavier", but compared to what I don't know. Looks like a solid ride though.


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## linvillegorge (Jul 6, 2009)

The Carbonium boards are quite a bit lighter than the NS boards of old. Never SUmmer's used to be among the heaviest boards out there. That's no longer true. Most of the boards are average weight compared to other brands and the Cobra in particular is shockingly light in my experience. I've spent less time on the Proto than the Cobra, but I plan on changing that soon. The Proto will probably be my next board. Probably gonna sell my Evo and Heritage and just go with the Proto.


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## Slush Puppie (Aug 15, 2011)

I'm pretty sure the 154 proto has the equivalent effective edge to the 156 SL (or whatever the wide version is called) you can look up the stats on the site if you really want.

The Proto does feel lighter than the Sl in the hand. with bindings, boots and on your feet you'd be hard pushed to tell the difference.

You would probably feel the difference in dampness if you rode some lumpy snow on one then swapped to the other, if you pick one and ride it. I suspect they'd be too close to wish you had the other.

Buttering etc, both fine no problem. Though more effort than the Evo for sure though.

Power, both fine. Apart from 1 day where the power seemed _really_ sticky and it was hard work (on the SL) all other pow days on both proto and SL have been zero effort. (though switch pow riding on the SL is more difficult (but still doable) - assuming you retain the standard setback).

Sl slightly better for freeriding and fast piste. Proto slightly better for playing. I believe the sidecut is slightly narrower radius on the Proto, so tight turns are slightly more it's things than drawn out ones. But you're talking nuances only. I'd suggest going with the one you like the look of more if you can't try them.


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## lonerider (Apr 10, 2009)

chatyak said:


> I’ve been riding for about 12-13 years. Started in 1999-2000ish. I can handle a variety of terrain. I am 90% riding around the mountain and 10% doing tricks off of natural features. I don’t do the park anymore really – maybe a lap or two through it as I cruise around.
> 
> I am on the east coast and ride mainly hard packed snow .... man made snow (errr....ice), etc.. I do however take trips out west and when I do, I want to be able to ride the powder without struggling or nosediving. In fact I need a new board because I'm headed to Whistler in a few weeks.
> 
> ...


I'm 5'9 150 lbs. I own the Proto 154 and the SL 155 and ride in Lake Tahoe. I say go with the SL 153 - it is noticeably more damp than the Proto. The blunted tips do give the Proto a tiny bit (1-2cm) more effective edge with respect to the overall running length - but it's about a 1-2% difference (compared to compared to something like the Virus FLP AFT which has like 15 cm more effective edge).

A 155 is fine as well - I was 140 lbs when I got my first SL 155 cm and I rode it in the park all the time. The difference are subtle (I prefer the 155 myself, but I like slightly longer boards).

A few clips of me riding the SL 155

Not the best technique, but you get an idea of the dampness and edgehold, it is more difficult to do this on the Proto





I'm at 0:48s





I'm not the best at boxes


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## chatyak (Dec 24, 2012)

This is a really tough decision. I was thinking the SL... then after this thread I thought the proto... now I'm not sure.

A store I contacted has the Proto in 154. I could also get the SL in 153 or 155.

I was thinking of combining these with Burton Genesis Reflex bindings. What do you think? I wanted the smooth, comfy ride, but with a playful ability for 180s, butters, goofiness etc.


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## jdang307 (Feb 6, 2011)

From your description it screams SL. But the Proto is so hyped and sexy it makes you want one. Freeride/freestyle describes the SL.

But CarBONERum is pretty cool.


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## lonerider (Apr 10, 2009)

chatyak said:


> This is a really tough decision. I was thinking the SL... then after this thread I thought the proto... now I'm not sure.
> 
> A store I contacted has the Proto in 154. I could also get the SL in 153 or 155.
> 
> I was thinking of combining these with Burton Genesis Reflex bindings. What do you think? I wanted the smooth, comfy ride, but with a playful ability for 180s, butters, goofiness etc.


That what you get when you ask a bunch of Proto owners what board to get . they are psychologically biased to suggest their own board to justify their own purchase (even when it is not necessary ). Proto is a great board, just in my opinion it is not the best match for you.


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## MeanJoe (Jul 20, 2011)

The plus side here is with either board you will be happy.

I have both the Proto (157) and the SL (155) and love them both. Others have provided some points on the differences between the two but I do really think they are small nuances vs. major differences.

To me, the SL does feel more damp and handles speed a bit better. The problem with that statement is... the Proto is nice and damp, and fine at speed too! The Proto is a lot of fun to play on. It is not a "park board" noodle for sure but still a blast to ride. The problem with that statement is... it wasn't like I was bored riding my SL before getting the Proto.

So yea, with either board you will be happy but I do tend to agree with lonerider that based upon what you've said the SL wins it by a hair.


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## Chef Jer (Apr 3, 2011)

I am gonna agree with Lonerider on this and recommend the SL. I've owned the SL, Heritage and now ride a Cobra. The SL is a fantastic deck that is good on groomers with great edge hold while being ok in powder and still playful. 

I demoed a proto last year and it was a good deck but not as damp as the SL and more freestyle oriented. 

If your looking for all mountain/freestyle = SL if you want freestyle/all mountain = proto.


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## MeanJoe (Jul 20, 2011)

Crap - forgot to add a comment about bindings...

SL = Burton C02s: I like a firmer binding on this board so I can really crank on it at speed and get that responsiveness.

Proto = Burton Prophecy (Re:Flex): I went with a softer binding with more flex/board feel for the Proto. I like them a lot but sometimes I miss the better responsiveness of the C02s. I think that is just personal preference and riding style.


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## lonerider (Apr 10, 2009)

MeanJoe said:


> Crap - forgot to add a comment about bindings...
> 
> SL = Burton C02s: I like a firmer binding on this board so I can really crank on it at speed and get that responsiveness.
> 
> Proto = Burton Prophecy (Re:Flex): I went with a softer binding with more flex/board feel for the Proto. I like them a lot but sometimes I miss the better responsiveness of the C02s. I think that is just personal preference and riding style.


I also personally like a more responsive binding ... I had a pair of Rome 390 BOSS on my Proto and a pair of Burton CO2 Re:Flex on my SL... but at the end of last season, I switched the CO2 onto my Proto and I like that setup better. I sold the 390s and just picked up a pair of FLOW NX2-AT that I haven't tried out yet (man... if you had asked me 5, 10 years ago if I would ever get a pair of Flows). Hopefully, I'll like them... (else they'll be going back to Backcountry.com).


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## MeanJoe (Jul 20, 2011)

lonerider said:


> (man... if you had asked me 5, 10 years ago if I would ever get a pair of Flows)


That made me laugh. I've never given Flow bindings any serious consideration in all the years I've been riding but... this last few months I keep eye-balling them every time I'm in my local shop. I get all wunder-lusty and almost reach for my credit card when I snap myself out of it with a "But...but...they're FLOWS for God's sakes!".

I might switch my C02's onto the Proto this weekend and see how much of a difference it makes in the board's handling.

MeanJoe


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## dreampow (Sep 26, 2011)

To the OP have ridden both boards and I say for your needs go proto.

The difference is small, but the proto is lighter and the blunted tips are a bonus IMO, longer effective edge and better for spinning as well.

The SL may be very slightly damper which is really the only plus point IMO.

At the end of the day they are quite similar and you will enjoy either.


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## Chef Jer (Apr 3, 2011)

dreampow said:


> At the end of the day they are quite similar and you will enjoy either.


Well said.


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## chatyak (Dec 24, 2012)

Cool clips of riding. Skill doesn't matter - remember that. Snowboarding is so much more. Those who rip on other people because they can't throw a switch cork 1080 are simply either 14 or have yet to grow up.

It was hard to tell the dampness of the riding except for the first vid - it looked really smooth and solid. Then again... Lake Tahoe is awesome compared to my local hill... err bump.

Am I missing out on the Carbonium topsheet? I wish the SL had that look. The stance of the SL is also slightly set back compared to the Proto though.... this would probably help for trips out west... 

The shop only has 1 proto left and a couple SL's. Maybe I can demo both in the same day and see. That's if no one buys the proto in a couple weeks... or the SL size I want.


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## lonerider (Apr 10, 2009)

chatyak said:


> Cool clips of riding. Skill doesn't matter - remember that. Snowboarding is so much more. Those who rip on other people because they can't throw a switch cork 1080 are simply either 14 or have yet to grow up.
> 
> It was hard to tell the dampness of the riding except for the first vid - it looked really smooth and solid. Then again... Lake Tahoe is awesome compared to my local hill... err bump.
> 
> ...


Yea, the first clip was to show the dampness and edgehold, the other two clips were to show that an SL can still be playful.

Demo'ing is definitely the best way to find the best match for you. That is going to be better than any random stranger's advice on the internet.

The Carbonium topsheet is a fun, but not a must have in my opinion. If you are riding smaller hills at slower speeds you might not miss the dampness of the SL (I would but that's my opinion). The Cobra is about the same as the SL in dampness AND has a carbonium topsheet, but is slightly more directional (I read that you didn't want the Cobra for some reason... but I forgot exactly why). Again, based on what you do... the SL or the Cobra.


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## chatyak (Dec 24, 2012)

lonerider said:


> Yea, the first clip was to show the dampness and edgehold, the other two clips were to show that an SL can still be playful.
> 
> Demo'ing is definitely the best way to find the best match for you. That is going to be better than any random stranger's advice on the internet.
> 
> The Carbonium topsheet is a fun, but not a must have in my opinion. If you are riding smaller hills at slower speeds you might not miss the dampness of the SL (I would but that's my opinion). The Cobra is about the same as the SL in dampness AND has a carbonium topsheet, but is slightly more directional (I read that you didn't want the Cobra for some reason... but I forgot exactly why). Again, based on what you do... the SL or the Cobra.



Hmm don't remember saying that about the Cobra. I have considered it - but I don't remember why I shyed away from it. Maybe not as freestyle friendly as the SL due to it being more stiff in the flex.


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## lonerider (Apr 10, 2009)

chatyak said:


> Hmm don't remember saying that about the Cobra. I have considered it - but I don't remember why I shyed away from it. Maybe not as freestyle friendly as the SL due to it being more stiff in the flex.


From my understanding the Cobra is barely stiffer in flex than the SL - far far more playful than say the Heritage (which is more of a twinish shape AND has a carbonium topsheet).

No one can make the final decision for you... I suggest you pick the top two things you do most often and get the board that matches that the best. This is what I think each board is designed for... (although I haven't ridden the Cobra).

SL - freeride (dampness) and freestyle (twinish shape), minor setback makes it decent for powder riding

Cobra - freeriding (dampness, stable) and powder (directional shape) and a tiny bit of freestyling (still soft enough to be playful). and switch riding (according to Snowolf) 

Proto - freestyle with some mellow freeriding (lack of dampness becomes an issue when the snow isn't fresh and/or not well groomed) - it is ok in powder, but worse than the other two model because of its blunted tips and true twin shape. This board is obviously the most playful of the three.


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## chatyak (Dec 24, 2012)

Leaning much towards the SL because of the snow issue and where I mainly ride. As a powder stick-all terrain / playful board.. I think the SL will suit me for east coast riding with the odd trip to the west for some mountain riding. Whatever it is, I hope it will suit me better than my current board which has an almost-see through base and a topsheet of wood splintering up 4 inches lol

Now I have a problem with bindings... Here's the thread


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## chatyak (Dec 24, 2012)

So i've been doing a bit of reading - and it seems that the Cobra is an upgraded SL - with the same dampness and flex. The only major two differences are the tail shapes and the carbon top. Though to be fair I have read that the flex is a bit stiffer than the SL. By the same token, I have also read that it pops much better than the SL.

Can anyone confirm this after riding? I'm sure I'd be happy in all honesty with the proto, sl, or the cobra - but now that I'm in my mid to late twenties versus getting the first board at 13 - you want to pick one after much thought instead of grabbing anything :laugh:

Maybe the cobra is the board to go for? It seems to have adopted the Proto's features on the tail, it uses Carbonium, and keeps the same specs as the SL. Kind of the best of both worlds? Though unlike the twin tips, it has a more gradual nose and sharper tail, which allows the back to sink into pow as far as I understand. Not that useful on the East Coast (I ride at Holiday Valley), but for trips out west it may be a good all around board.

Thoughts? My only concern would be riding switch and how it handles that. I don't ride switch for the whole run, but I like to mix it up with the butter here and there.


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## lonerider (Apr 10, 2009)

chatyak said:


> So i've been doing a bit of reading - and it seems that the Cobra is an upgraded SL - with the same dampness and flex. The only major two differences are the tail shapes and the carbon top. Though to be fair I have read that the flex is a bit stiffer than the SL. By the same token, I have also read that it pops much better than the SL.
> 
> Can anyone confirm this after riding? I'm sure I'd be happy in all honesty with the proto, sl, or the cobra - but now that I'm in my mid to late twenties versus getting the first board at 13 - you want to pick one after much thought instead of grabbing anything :laugh:
> 
> ...


Well the Cobra is only available this season... so not many people have _actually ridden it_ aside from Leo and Snowolf - both of them have posted long, positive review threads that wax poetically about the wonders of Never Summer (search for them). I plan to demo it sometime this season.


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## chatyak (Dec 24, 2012)

lonerider said:


> Well the Cobra is only available this season... so not many people have _actually ridden it_ aside from Leo and Snowolf - both of them have posted long, positive review threads that wax poetically about the wonders of Never Summer (search for them). I plan to demo it sometime this season.


Ahh - gotcha. I'll look at snowwolf's thoughts. I did remember lurking and scanning through it. Time to open it up again.


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## jdang307 (Feb 6, 2011)

BA has as well.

2013 Never Summer Cobra Used and Reviewed «

It's a proto/SL on crack.


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## lonerider (Apr 10, 2009)

jdang307 said:


> BA has as well.
> 
> 2013 Never Summer Cobra Used and Reviewed «
> 
> It's a proto/SL on crack.


He also said the following thing in the comments section



angrysnowboarder said:


> Think of it as a directional Proto honestly I’d recommend buying something else if you’re going to freeride or slash pow.


Jdang, what board do you have now? Still and Evo? (I can't remember if you said you were getting a Cobra).


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## chatyak (Dec 24, 2012)

Yea, seems like the Cobra is the one to get now. :laugh: Best of both worlds with some new tech thrown in for good measure. I thought snowwolf said it was a great upgrade from the SL and for pow... I'll have to check his thread.


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## lonerider (Apr 10, 2009)

chatyak said:


> Yea, seems like the Cobra is the one to get now. :laugh: Best of both worlds with some new tech thrown in for good measure. I thought snowwolf said it was a great upgrade from the SL and for pow... I'll have to check his thread.


That's definitely how the Cobra is marketed to be (SL replacement) and hyped up by pre-season reviewers. I'm excited to try out the board, but I personally try to be careful not about boards I haven't personally ridden myself.

Good luck and have fun - you really can't go wrong!


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## jdang307 (Feb 6, 2011)

lonerider said:


> He also said the following thing in the comments section
> 
> 
> 
> Jdang, what board do you have now? Still and Evo? (I can't remember if you said you were getting a Cobra).


Yup, thats' why I say Proto/SL on crack. It looks to be a mixture of a bunch of different boards.

No Evo. I bought a Coda and loved it last year in Tahoe, so I grabbed a Westmark to fool around with down here in shitty So Cal resorts (Mt High, Bear/Summit). Yes getting a Cobra. But saving it for the bigger resorts when I make a trip (possibly Tahoe in a few weeks, looking at SLC, and Mammoth in February). Going to powder chase with it if I can.

I could still ride the cobra in So Cal but it'd be mostly pointless. Bear/Summit at least has a semi-long run. and I've ridden the SL there. And I really do mean Semi-long. I'm just getting to know the Westmark so I'll keep pounding on that locally. Had a fucking thigh bruise my first day out (from a trip to Asia) and couldn't even lift my front leg. So ollie's were so fucking painful I grimaced when even starting to try one. But the westie seems to a little less poppy than the Coda.

I didn't find the Evo that poppy (but I still suck). The SL felt better on the small jumps I do take.


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## lonerider (Apr 10, 2009)

jdang307 said:


> Yup, thats' why I say Proto/SL on crack. It looks to be a mixture of a bunch of different boards.
> 
> No Evo. I bought a Coda and loved it last year in Tahoe, so I grabbed a Westmark to fool around with down here in shitty So Cal resorts (Mt High, Bear/Summit). Yes getting a Cobra. But saving it for the bigger resorts when I make a trip (possibly Tahoe in a few weeks, looking at SLC, and Mammoth in February). Going to powder chase with it if I can.
> 
> ...


Lol... so you now have a Coda, Westmark AND a Cobra... welcome to the collector's club :eusa_clap: 

Just write you name on a name tag and join us in the circle when you are ready :welcome:

As for no reason to pull out the Cobra... tell that to Leo and the hills he's riding on (no offense, that's how Leo describe it himself).


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## jdang307 (Feb 6, 2011)

lonerider said:


> Lol... so you now have a Coda, Westmark AND a Cobra... welcome to the collector's club :eusa_clap:
> 
> Just write you name on a name tag and join us in the circle when you are ready :welcome:
> 
> As for no reason to pull out the Cobra... tell that to Leo and the hills he's riding on (no offense, that's how Leo describe it himself).


Yes, but I'll only ever keep two boards at once so the Coda will probably go ... to a friend or craigs list. As for the Cobra ... I rode an SL around these parts (which I believe are still bigger than a lot of the midwest hills) and it was fine. So the cobra would be too. But with a Westmark sitting here ... The Cobra will be when I want to be aggressive and try to slash side hits and hop off of rollers etc. The westmark is for when Im trying to polish my shitty park skills off small jumps boxes and rails (the wider rails mind you). I do need to armor up though, Im' getting up there in age.

Westmark - try to butter around and hit everything in site. Cobra - powder and aggressively riding down the mountain.


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## chatyak (Dec 24, 2012)

If the Cobra has the same dampness and flex of the SL - but with the added benefit of Carbonium and a better powder riding experience, isn't it then a SL board, with the benefits of Proto tips, and better powder?

Essentially it's an "SL +1"?

I get the feeling some are saying it's mainly a powder rider... 95% of my riding isn't in powder... so the SL or proto would be better... however if I can get a board that combines the two with some extra... it seems like a good choice?


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## Mysticfalcon (Nov 27, 2007)

The SL is my go-to board. Great in the powder and great for natural hits. 
Im an east coaster but Im spoiled by east coast standards. 
Today

Snow 2 by rboskind, on Flickr


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## snowklinger (Aug 30, 2011)

chatyak said:


> If the Cobra has the same dampness and flex of the SL - but with the added benefit of Carbonium and a better powder riding experience, isn't it then a SL board, with the benefits of Proto tips, and better powder?
> 
> Essentially it's an "SL +1"?
> 
> I get the feeling some are saying it's mainly a powder rider... 95% of my riding isn't in powder... so the SL or proto would be better... however if I can get a board that combines the two with some extra... it seems like a good choice?


No. The Cobra has a different nose/tail shape than the SL, which is a twin with setback and I believe directional flex. The Cobra is not a twin at all, it has a spoon nose and spaded tail for powder.

I don't understand people leaning toward the Cobra for a quiver killer at all. I'd ride one, but it would only come out on DEEP days. I weigh 175lbs and can ride my 54 proto in pretty deep snow. This thead has devolved after the very first page into complete overthinking and wrong thinking imo.

Linvillegorge was spot on in the first place. Even the Heritage would be a better choice than the Cobra imo.


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## chatyak (Dec 24, 2012)

snowklinger said:


> No. The Cobra has a different nose/tail shape than the SL, which is a twin with setback and I believe directional flex. The Cobra is not a twin at all, it has a spoon nose and spaded tail for powder.


Sorry, I was thinking one thing and typing another.


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## lonerider (Apr 10, 2009)

chatyak said:


> If the Cobra has the same dampness and flex of the SL - but with the added benefit of Carbonium and a better powder riding experience, isn't it then a SL board, with the benefits of Proto tips, and better powder?
> 
> Essentially it's an "SL +1"?
> 
> I get the feeling some are saying it's mainly a powder rider... 95% of my riding isn't in powder... so the SL or proto would be better... however if I can get a board that combines the two with some extra... it seems like a good choice?


It depends on what you were planning the to use the SL for. I got the SL as a park board that was pretty good on the slopes as well. Initial reviews of the Cobra make me think the Cobra is going to be better than the SL for what "most people" actually do on the SL... ride groomers, get some air off of natural features, butter a little on the flatter slopes, and ride powder. 

I say "actually do" because a lot of people believe they need a twin board to do any type of freestyle tricks... just like people buy an SUV or a pickup truck imaging themselves to be some type of off-roading tough outdoors men... when in reality they are mostly driving to the office and buying groceries.

While I do think the Cobra will be miles better in powder than the Proto ... I laugh at the idea that the Cobra is mainly a powder riding board... boards like the Never Summer Summit, Burton Fish, Prior Khyber (all of which I've ridden) are true powder specific boards... the Cobra shape is just more powder friendly than your old-school true twin. The Proto is not "bad" in powder (virtually no modern board is "bad" in powder now a days)... but it is not particularly good in powder either.

Remember, I'm saying all of this even though the Proto is the board I rode most often last season... it's just that I was riding in the park most of the day. It wouldn't be the board I would grab for free riding with friends or on a powder day.


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## timmytard (Mar 19, 2009)

I think you should wait until you get to Whistler.

There are so many pro riders that get shit loads of free boards that live in Whistler. They could care less how much they get for that free board.

Have a little look in the Whistler Craigslist, maybe a few days before you leave check it out, find a couple you like, research them, then when you get there, pull the trigger.

You'll probably save a few hundred $$$, *if* your not set on a specific brand.

A couple months ago I bought a Ride Slackcountry with Ride EX bindings for $150, that's a $1000 setup.
Then I got him to sell me a pair of 2013 Ride El Hefe's(reg $400) for $100.

In about ten min I'm leaving to drive 2 hours each way, to go buy a pair of brand new 2013 Ride RFL boots for... Ready... $100 bucks.

Trying to find the perfect board before you by it, is almost impossible IMO.
You'll end up payin' way more & you're just setting yourself up for disappointment.

I just snapped the Slackcountry after riding it for 30 feet, I never even got to try it. It broke my heart as well:sad:, I really wanted it to be my go to powder slaying monster deck.
But @ least it didn't cost me an arm & a leg

Worst case scenario, you get to try a board a while, sell it for more than what you paid & buy something else.

Lib Tech Box scratcher
Full rocker, & magna-traction. I just got banana a while ago, a 156, I usually ride @ least a 160 & I was surprised how well it rode in the powder. 
So even though it's a 151 with your weight, it would rock the powder.:eusa_clap:

Pretty damn good Ice coast stick as well:thumbsup: 


TT


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## lonerider (Apr 10, 2009)

timmytard said:


> There are so many pro riders that get shit loads of free boards that live in Whistler. They could care less how much they get for that free board.
> 
> I just snapped the Slackcountry after riding it for 30 feet, I never even got to try it.


You just learned something I learned a decade ago when going to a pro rider swap sale during the summer at Mt. Hood... a lot of those boards the pro riders are selling, if used, have the crap ridden out of them... and that's part of the reason why they are so cheap. 

Pro riders are generally very poor and are not stupid (well not THAT stupid)... they generally try to get as much money as possible for the board in the minimum amount of effort.



> In about ten min I'm leaving to drive 2 hours each way, to go buy a pair of brand new 2013 Ride RFL boots for... Ready... $100 bucks.


So 4 hours of driving... at roughly 70 miles an hour = 280 miles, assuming you get 20 miles per gallon (sorry not going to switch to metric), that's 14 gallon... at $4 USD a gallon, that's $56 USD in gas. And... if you worked a minimum wage job at $10 an hour, that's another $40 - so the true cost of those boots is about $200 - that's a decent deal... but it took extremely measures to get that deal (you could get roughly the same discount if you bought last year's model... and rarely does something improve so dramatically the next year).


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## chatyak (Dec 24, 2012)

timmytard said:


> I think you should wait until you get to Whistler.
> 
> There are so many pro riders that get shit loads of free boards that live in Whistler. They could care less how much they get for that free board.
> 
> ...


Interesting. Didn't think of that. The only board I ever got from a pro rider was given to me for free at a Red Bull contest. I asked Brian Thien if he wanted his board... he gave me the board and Smith Goggles he had. Was a Sims FR. Was actually a great board. I loved the flex and playfullness of it.


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## chatyak (Dec 24, 2012)

linvillegorge said:


> Personally, I'd go Proto. Decent float in powder, blunted tips mean you can downsize without giving up effective edge length, and similar flex profile to the SL - not too stiff to play and not too soft to bomb.
> 
> The Cobra doesn't make much sense for you if the majority of your riding is on the east coast. It's basically a playful powder stick. Sucks for riding switch and I found it to be twitchy on groomers.
> 
> ...


What size would you suggest for me? The store that I contacted only had a 154. I was thinking a 152 would be better for my size.


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## timmytard (Mar 19, 2009)

lonerider said:


> You just learned something I learned a decade ago when going to a pro rider swap sale during the summer at Mt. Hood... a lot of those boards the pro riders are selling, if used, have the crap ridden out of them... and that's part of the reason why they are so cheap.
> 
> So 4 hours of driving... at roughly 70 miles an hour = 280 miles, assuming you get 20 miles per gallon (sorry not going to switch to metric), that's 14 gallon... at $4 USD a gallon, that's $56 USD in gas. And... if you worked a minimum wage job at $10 an hour, that's another $40 - so the true cost of those boots is about $200.



I normally only buy new boards, unless they are stupid cheap. The Slackcountry was basically brand new, it didn't have a scratch.
& I'll agree with what your saying. The guy I'm buying the boots off, is the same guy as all the other shit.
Apparently, this guy is a photographer:dunno:. He lives in a big fancy house & has a garage full of brand new gear. I don't really care if he is or not. Garage full of gear, he's my guy.:thumbsup:

Pro's aren't the only ones sellin' shit for cheap in Whistler, people are given decks as promo's, & there are lots of spoiled kids that just don't have a clue or give a shit. 

I've been snowboarding for 25 years, this isn't new to me. If you were to pay full price for the amount of boards I ride in a season, well, you better be high rollin'. I mean really high rollin', I've already gone through about 6 or 7 boards & this will be my 4th pair of boots.
Were just under a month in & I got 4 maybe 5 more to go.
I just don't like forkin' out large anymore, I'd rather @ least make a little to try tonnes of new gear.

It's as much of a hassle, as it is to go buy a new board. Probably less, I don't do as much research.

Actually it's more like 1.5 hours each way, but if I were to buy them locally it's an hour drive.
& thank god, I got rid of the gas whore 5.9 liter Dodge Ram truck I had, those boots would work out to be about $400. My little Sunfire should do it for about $20-$25.

So, say $125 for $360 pair of bootties, how's that bad?

I don't like working in the winter, it takes away from my snowboarding.
I work long & hard in the other seasons so I don't have to in the winter.:bowdown:

TT


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## lonerider (Apr 10, 2009)

timmytard said:


> I normally only buy new boards, unless they are stupid cheap. The Slackcountry was basically brand new, it didn't have a scratch.
> 
> I mean really high rollin', I've already gone through about 6 or 7 boards & this will be my 4th pair of boots.
> Were just under a month in & I got 4 maybe 5 more to go.
> ...


Like I've said in previous post, I went through the same phase you went through... it was only a few season ago that I had a rotating selection of 7-8 boards. It got to the point that I was trying out a new board every week and I was spending more time "gathering gear" than I was snowboarding.

So for boots... why are you going through so many? You just want to try out more stuff? Or you haven't found a pair you liked? Or the type you like aren't very durable?


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## linvillegorge (Jul 6, 2009)

Agreed. I was up to 7 boards, but I'm down to 5 now. Plan to be down to 4 soon.

I have my rock board, my split, a NS Evo, a NS Heritage, and a Charlie Slasher. Plan on keeping the split, rock board, and CS, then selling both the Evo and Heritage and probably replacing them with a Proto as the all around, do everything stick.


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## Chef Jer (Apr 3, 2011)

linvillegorge said:


> Agreed. I was up to 7 boards, but I'm down to 5 now. Plan to be down to 4 soon.
> 
> I have my rock board, my split, a NS Evo, a NS Heritage, and a Charlie Slasher. Plan on keeping the split, rock board, and CS, then selling both the Evo and Heritage and probably replacing them with a Proto as the all around, do everything stick.


LVG.. just saw this on CL:

Never Summer Proto ct size 157" :dunno:


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## linvillegorge (Jul 6, 2009)

Yeah, I saw that too. At $450 though, just not enough savings to forego a warranty. I can get it for 10% off at Loveland, plus an additional $30 off due to money I've spent on a demo.


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## Efilnikufesin (Oct 8, 2011)

If you are planning to ride it on much of the ice coast when you come back from your trip, I would go for the SL, from what I have read the proto might get a bit washy on icy days out here, but it's just what I have heard. Haven't ridden any of them.


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## hktrdr (Apr 3, 2012)

lonerider said:


> It depends on what you were planning the to use the SL for. I got the SL as a park board that was pretty good on the slopes as well. Initial reviews of the Cobra make me think the Cobra is going to be better than the SL for what "most people" actually do on the SL... ride groomers, get some air off of natural features, butter a little on the flatter slopes, and ride powder.
> 
> I say "actually do" because a lot of people believe they need a twin board to do any type of freestyle tricks... just like people buy an SUV or a pickup truck imaging themselves to be some type of off-roading tough outdoors men... when in reality they are mostly driving to the office and buying groceries.
> 
> ...


+1. What he said. Just starting to test my Cobra here in Niseko. Loving the board so far, but it is clearly a (directional) all-mountain board, not a pow board. Although it is probably better in pow than 90% of all general all-mountain boards, it cannot touch my Fish or Sick Stick or other dedicated pow sticks (Powder Snake, Charlie Slasher, Summit, etc.) in the fluffy stuff.


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## chatyak (Dec 24, 2012)

Well.... I demo'd both the Sl and the proto. It was my 1st time out this season here on the east coast. I rode the SL first and the proto second. To be honest... I felt the proto to be a bit stiffer, which I found odd. I was also really tired by the time I had to demo the proto so perhaps it affected my reasoning. The carbonium top was really cool... snow didn't stick to it as much as the SL.

After a VERY long time debating back and forth between the Sl and the 154 proto..... I ended up getting the 153 SL. It was a really smooth ride for me and I saved $40. It was also a bit less wide in diameter width. 

The extra $40 I put towards a high intensity yellow lens - along with new Oakley Canopy goggles which fit my helmet nicely.

I have some pictures attached of helmet/goggles, the run I tested the boards on, and the board itself.

As for binding - I got Burton 2013 cartels on sale on a store near me. Hopefully I made the right choices!


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## backstop13 (Jun 27, 2012)

Yeah I ride an SL out here on the east coast too, and I keep going back and forth on whether I should have gotten the Proto. I compromised and moved the bindings around so they stick was twin, and I've been happy.


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## jdang307 (Feb 6, 2011)

The SL so far is one of the smoothest board I rode on (not many). Some don't like that, but when cruising groomers it's great.

I'm curious for the Cobra ride.


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## chatyak (Dec 24, 2012)

backstop13 said:


> Yeah I ride an SL out here on the east coast too, and I keep going back and forth on whether I should have gotten the Proto. I compromised and moved the bindings around so they stick was twin, and I've been happy.


Well, I don't mind the directional twin. It's only 1/2 inch or so wasn't it? The difference is so negligible to me honestly. When I ride switch, that 1/2' is not noticeable... I mainly got it due to price being $40 less, a nice smooth damp ride, and I found it to be more flexy/playful. Both were great. If the SL had a carbonium top - I would have picked it hands down in a flash without the long debate.


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## chatyak (Dec 24, 2012)

jdang307 said:


> The SL so far is one of the smoothest board I rode on (not many). Some don't like that, but when cruising groomers it's great.
> 
> I'm curious for the Cobra ride.


The guy at the shop had one and he was telling me that those who demo'd it said it felt very stiff - comparably to the other neversummers I am guessing.


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## chatyak (Dec 24, 2012)

Couple of pics with the bindings attached for those wondering...


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## Stavros (Sep 13, 2015)

hello!



i use to ride a neversummer sl for 5 years now. i bought the board when i was novice and it help me to go to intermediate level. 
i am happy with this board but i start looking more edge control (especially in black runs). 
i saw 1-2 years before the new ripsaw and i was thinking of buying but on second thoughts i think i will loose a lot of the playfull and forgiveness of the sl plus it will be more demanding especially in the end of the day which the legs are not obey the commands 

this year neversummer made the west . a softer version of the ripsaw ... does any of you rode it in some tests to tell me somethings about the board?

is it forgiving? if you compare it to the sl is it more stiff? if you compare it to the ripsaw what does it feel?

thanks in advance!!


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## buggravy (Feb 19, 2008)

Stavros said:


> hello!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


West is definitely forgiving. It's a pretty mellow, but fun ride overall. It's been a couple of years since I rode an SL, but if I had to compare the flex of the West to the SL based on memory I'd say that the West is slightly softer overall, though relatively comparable. The West is noticeably softer and more mellow than the Ripsaw. I wouldn't call it simply a "softer Ripsaw". It's just a completely different board. If you're looking for a fresh update to your SL, but were happy with the SL, I don't think you can go wrong with the West.


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## Stavros (Sep 13, 2015)

buggravy said:


> West is definitely forgiving. It's a pretty mellow, but fun ride overall. It's been a couple of years since I rode an SL, but if I had to compare the flex of the West to the SL based on memory I'd say that the West is slightly softer overall, though relatively comparable. The West is noticeably softer and more mellow than the Ripsaw. I wouldn't call it simply a "softer Ripsaw". It's just a completely different board. If you're looking for a fresh update to your SL, but were happy with the SL, I don't think you can go wrong with the West.



Thanks a lot

You were helpful !


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## linvillegorge (Jul 6, 2009)

The West. Definitely The West.

If I could only own one current production board to do everything, it'd be The West.


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## AlexDonald1988 (Oct 19, 2015)

I am in the same situation, I currently own a never summer sl and am looking at a west.


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## timmytard (Mar 19, 2009)

linvillegorge said:


> The West. Definitely The West.
> 
> If I could only own one current production board to do everything, it'd be The West.


Really? I was sold on paper. I was 110% sure I was gonna love the West more.

Exact opposite.

The Rip-Saw blew it away, for me anyway.

You won't be disappointed in either of them, but I don't think the Rip-Saw less fun.
Just a more powerful fun.

I vote for the Rip-Saw.

I am totally against twins & I still say the Rip-Saw.


TT


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## Neversummer85 (Oct 21, 2015)

chatyak said:


> I’ve been riding for about 12-13 years. Started in 1999-2000ish. I can handle a variety of terrain. I am 90% riding around the mountain and 10% doing tricks off of natural features. I don’t do the park anymore really – maybe a lap or two through it as I cruise around.
> 
> I am on the east coast and ride mainly hard packed snow .... man made snow (errr....ice), etc.. I do however take trips out west and when I do, I want to be able to ride the powder without struggling or nosediving. In fact I need a new board because I'm headed to Whistler in a few weeks.
> 
> ...


The SL is actually discontinued and is now known as the snowtrooper which I have. It's a solid board. I've done everything with it. I'm on the east coast too but I tried it at my old job on a gear testing trip which is how I fell in love with it. Very versatile directional twin board with rock/cam/rock profile and medium flex. It's got a low pro nose but it floats surprisingly well. Just food for thought if you like the SL.


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## powderjunkie (Jun 30, 2015)

Bought a 164 Snowtrooper this year. Pretty stoked to try it out in the trees and pow!


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