# Trouble picking up boarding, tall & heavy rider, any help or pointers?



## Guest (Jan 11, 2010)

I just picked up snowboarding this season and although I'm not quite as big/tall as you (5'11, 265lbs) I can relate to some of the things you mentioned.

First off, you're gonna need a wider board or at least adjust the bindings to minimize the incredible amount of toe overhang (I'm no expert, but from what I've read around these boards, too much overhang is not a good thing). I have a size 12 boot and sport a 160cm wideboard (Rome Slash) that has suited me well so far.

I absolutely cannot stand up while my body is facing towards the bottom of the slope, so instead, after strapping up I rotate the by body so that I am on all fours facing the top of the mountain. I then dig the toe-side edge of the board into the slope, as if I were standing on my tippy toes, and stick my rear end to the ski while my arms are supporting the rest of my body. Then I just push off my hands and stand upright and rotate towards my regular stance as gravity assists.

It will take a lot of repitition and PAIN until it starts to get comfortable. I started snowboarding because a bunch of my friends (smaller friends!) wanted to pick it up as well and they are definitely progressing MUCH faster than I am. Keep taking lessons as necessary and don't feel discouraged!


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## wilsowe (Dec 9, 2009)

Alright, I'm new to this too and by no means qualified to instruct but I'll try to help you since we're similar in size. I'm 6'3" and weigh 260 now thanks to the holidays (darnit!).

My first few days out I couldn't get up from my back to save my life. I had to flip over to my knees and I think the key here is slamming your board into the snow to make a little ledge to stand up on without sliding. Also keep your knees bent instead of trying to stand up totally straight. Keeping your knees bent and in a light squat will lower your center of gravity a bit. I also find that a steeper spot to start on helps from knees or butt. If its too flat it's very hard to stand up, counter-intuitive but true for me. I think it's because if my feet are already lower than the rest of me then I don't have to stand up as far, if that makes sense.

After 4 or 5 full days on the board I'm finally figuring out how to get up from my butt without having to flip over to my knees. I think the key here for me is I don't even try until I have a clear line and am ready to go down the hill. Standing around talking takes too much effort to me. I'd rather sit and talk than just push myself up and go ahead using the slight sliding you're talking about to help get me moving. As far as technique I walk myself close with my hands and sometimes actually go over the board, switching from heel edge over to my toe edge diggin in directly under me in order to have my upper body close enough to push up without sliding my heels out from under me. This probably doesn't make sense but try at home on the carpet and you'll see that if your on your butt and "walk" your hands up close then lean up over onto your toes its easier. I try to mimick that motion with the snowboard. 

Sorry I dont have any pictures and probably don't make much sense, hopefully one of the better instructors here can help. I just thought I'd mention a few ideas since I'm similar in height, weight, and newness to the sport to you. Don't give up on it just yet though. My first day was spent falling all over the bunny hill with those carpet lift things both with and without an instructor. I didn't even touch an actual lift until my second day out and slightly steeper hill helped alot. Things just don't work well with the board on nearly flat ground to me. Most everyone I've spoken with has said it takes 2 or 3 days to get any kind of decent confidence going with the board too. Be patient and don't give up just yet.


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## Guest (Jan 11, 2010)

ons said:


> I just picked up snowboarding this season and although I'm not quite as big/tall as you (5'11, 265lbs) I can relate to some of the things you mentioned.
> 
> First off, you're gonna need a wider board or at least adjust the bindings to minimize the incredible amount of toe overhang (I'm no expert, but from what I've read around these boards, too much overhang is not a good thing). I have a size 12 boot and sport a 160cm wideboard (Rome Slash) that has suited me well so far.
> 
> ...


Thank you, the board is a rental. I'm not 100% sure of the width, but it might be a Burton 167, and my toes did have a lot of clearance off the edge. However, my memory is shaky. I didnt know what board to ask for, it was part of the class package. I really hope its not simply the biggest one they had.

I'm looking at a guide on how to get up here, and all their feet are right on the edge, where as mine stick out so much.. hmm.. The boots they gave me were HUGE. But I thought that was the norm, and I am a size 13.

So if they don't have a board where my feet don't stick out so much, it might be a lost cause for the moment?

As for further getting up, that gravity "assists" me before I'm upright in that all-fours position. A great deal before. I could go down the entire mountain backwards, looking between my legs, if I wanted to. I wasn't able to use it =/ I think I'll need to slam the board side into the mountain several times and build a "ledge" for myself possibly, like wilsowe is saying. 



wilsowe said:


> Alright, I'm new to this too and by no means qualified to instruct but I'll try to help you since we're similar in size. I'm 6'3" and weigh 260 now thanks to the holidays (darnit!).
> 
> My first few days out I couldn't get up from my back to save my life. I had to flip over to my knees and I think the key here is slamming your board into the snow to make a little ledge to stand up on without sliding. Also keep your knees bent instead of trying to stand up totally straight. Keeping your knees bent and in a light squat will lower your center of gravity a bit. I also find that a steeper spot to start on helps from knees or butt. If its too flat it's very hard to stand up, counter-intuitive but true for me. I think it's because if my feet are already lower than the rest of me then I don't have to stand up as far, if that makes sense.
> 
> ...


I think I have a mental picture of what you're describing. Thank you for giving me two more techniques to try. 

Right now, the plan is to get on the skis, learn a bit on those, then to see if they'll switch me to board for the last third of my time, when I can practices all this, this coming weekend.

After my trouble with the board this past Saturday they offered to switch me to skis but they had no lessons, and I wasn't about to tempt fate twice in the same day.

I asked for help on Yahoo Answers here. and got another suggestions, similar to yours, but having me on my but, reaching forward and grabbing the center of the board. The guy seems to also think I need a longer board, but I cant put pictures into Yahoo Answers. 

Let me post a picture of me next to my board and you maybe can tell its width or if its height is right for me.











Thank you for all your help btw, both of you, I'll be trying anything and everything suggested here.


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## Guest (Jan 11, 2010)

the_red said:


> From the front, even when I dig the foot-tip edge in, I cant stand up entirely without the board starting to slide backwards down the hill while I'm still bent over & cant see.


we call the 'foot-tip edge' the 'toe edge'.

as ever, without seeing what you are doing, i'm just guessing but it's likely that your board is sliding because you don't have enough edge angle. that is likely caused by your legs being too straight. bending your knees more will almost certainly help this. instead of envisioning going from being on your knees to standing up, try thinking about going from being on yoru knees to crouching on your board.

alasdair


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## Grizz (Nov 10, 2008)

I'm your height and about 20kg lighter. If I can ride anyone can. Lots of guys our height ride and I'm sure some heavier than you. I've worked with a couple a little heaver than you and both were able to link turns.



the_red said:


> I'm having A LOT of trouble getting back up......From the front, even when I dig the foot-tip edge in, I cant stand up entirely without the board starting to slide backwards down the hill while I'm still bent over & cant see.


It's hard to know what's happening without being there, but from this photo I can make a few educated guesses. 

The bandanna is causing all your problems.

Just kidding, you need to center your boot on the board. Can you see in the photo how much more toe overhang you have than on the heel side? This will make it very tough to get up on your toe side edge, which most large people find the easiest. It will also present some challenges when you try to turn. 

Keeping your legs flexed while rolling the board up on it's edge will also help. When you were competing you probably did a lot of lifting at the gym. Think of being at your lowest point doing a squat lift as you push yourself to upright over the toe side edge. Remember to keep the same good form you would doing a squat, legs flexed upper body tall and look uphill not down at the snow. Don't try to extend your legs until you have your body centered over the toe side edge. 

It looks like you are riding on a plate system to elevate your foot off the board and increase clearance between the snow and your foot while turning. This is a good thing for your size 13s. You also have you stance ducked out to fit more of your foot on the board. Another good thing. 

You might want to find a cheap board of your own instead of a rental so you can set it up in a way that works well for you and have a consistent platform to practice from.

Skiing is fun and you should be able to turn, slow down and stop your first time out, while spending minimal time getting up. Try to give boarding another try though. You can do it. Particularly after centering your boots. I bet with your mountain biking experience you will love it when everything starts to "click".


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## Guest (Jan 11, 2010)

alasdairm said:


> we call the 'foot-tip edge' the 'toe edge'.
> 
> as ever, without seeing what you are doing, i'm just guessing but it's likely that your board is sliding because you don't have enough edge angle. that is likely caused by your legs being too straight. bending your knees more will almost certainly help this. instead of envisioning going from being on your knees to standing up, try thinking about going from being on yoru knees to crouching on your board.
> 
> alasdair


Ok, I see. I didn't think of trying this. The board usually moved before I could straighten out my legs or earlier when I would just rise off my knees. But I did not purposely try to pivot myself into a starting crouching position. Rather, I was at an angle to the mountain where I was looking at its tip, and it seemed like it was possible to stand up, but every time I came to a certain fulcrum, the board would slide backwards on my 'toe edge'. It stayed at an angle, and I could keep my balance, but I could not fully stand up without falling on my rear end in the process. If I would try to turn, I'd wipe out.

The thought running through my head as I slid each time I tried to get up was "For the love of god, if I could only do this frontward and not backward, I'd be set" But it was not so 

I'm not sure if you have ever seen a boarder slide down sideways, in a straight line, hunched over, down the bunny hill. All I lacked was one of those truck-reverse-beepers & had bad images of running other people over like a road-roller in my mind.

I will try pivoting myself into a crouching start.



Grizz said:


> I'm your height and about 20kg lighter. If I can ride anyone can. Lots of guys our height ride and I'm sure some heavier than you. I've worked with a couple a little heaver than you and both were able to link turns.
> 
> Quote:
> Originally Posted by the_red View Post
> ...


That's not a bandanna, worse, its a buff. Watch the demo and try not to laugh. The use it does not mention is as a loosely effective shame-concealer.

Ok, squat position, I can understand that. That's good advice right there not to look at the snow but straight ahead. 

I am not sure, however, where one could acquire a board that fits me, with bindings and shoes. And we're not even talking setting it up, waxing, and the such.

I'm a grad student for MS Management Information Systems, I build systems and can figure all of those complexities out, so I know I can figure out a board. I just need to see it done, and done right, with steps I could follow and understand the purpose of.

Things I need to know would be which board to get, length, width, and maybe brand? Which bindings to get, how to set them up centered and so I don't kill myself, and what boots to get.

Used is fine & I can already see how it'll save me a lot on equipment rental. But where does one get a first-timer deal on this stuff that is possible to return if it still proves too difficult? What price range are we talking for all 3 pieces?


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## Grizz (Nov 10, 2008)

the_red said:


> I am not sure, however, where one could acquire a board that fits me, with bindings and shoes. And we're not even talking setting it up, waxing, and the such.
> 
> Things I need to know would be which board to get, length, width, and maybe brand? Which bindings to get, how to set them up centered and so I don't kill myself, and what boots to get.
> 
> Used is fine & I can already see how it'll save me a lot on equipment rental. But where does one get a first-timer deal on this stuff that is possible to return if it still proves too difficult? What price range are we talking for all 3 pieces?


Boards will have a list of specs that are easy to find on the manufacturers web site. You'll want to choose one with a waist width of 27cm or wider. You might be able to go narrower but it would depend on what type of boots you buy. 

For length, at your weight go for the longest board in a given series.

Don't worry too much about brand. Length and width should be the main concerns for your first board.

Bindings, get the large size in what ever brand you go with. Centering them is easy. I bet as a MS you could figure out how to do it just by looking at the hole pattern in your binding base plates. There might be a little trial and error involved. Stick your boots in and flip the board around so you are looking at the base and you will have a good view of how much toe and heel overhang there is.

Boots, not all size 13 boots have the same size outsole. Some lines have a boot with a smaller outsole for a given size, the Salomon F series for example. If you could find a boot like this it might allow you to use a somewhat narrower board.

Where to buy. I don't know where you live, but on the West coast there are tons of second hand sporting goods stores. Craig's list and Ebay would also be good options. You will probably have to be in the mindset of reselling instead of returning. You should be able to score a decent used set up of boots, bindings, board for less than $400 if you look hard. Hell, that's probably less than a new shock/fork for your bike.


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## john doe (Nov 6, 2009)

I'm not a big guy (5'7.5" 180lbs) but I don't even stand up until I'm ready to go. It takes alot of work to stand in one place on the side of a hill. I hate doing it when I have to. Instead I make it all one motion from the ground to moving. That said, your boots having that much toe over hang will make it hard to get up toe side and throw off your natural foot balance.


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## briangig (Nov 6, 2009)

I am also a large rider 6'4", 270lbs (bike too). Here are some hints, I've only been riding since last season, so I am still learning. 

Someone already said this, but it looks like your toes are overhanging way too much. This could be a major issue.

Can you stop and keep yourself from sliding down the hill on your toe side? Work on really pressing your toes into the edge, then when you try and get up, focus on digging the edge into the hill. I am just now getting to the point where I can get up on my heel side edge maybe 1/2 the time I try, depends on the angle of the hill, the snow, etc. Nothing wrong with getting up on toe edge. I think of it as a pushup with bent legs, do you have a strong upper body? Try doing some pushups in your freetime if not.

Look into leasing a board from your local mtn for the season...it's nice to use the same setup everytime you go out.


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## xelxguapo (May 21, 2009)

I'm a pretty heavy guy myslef. I'm 6'1" and 245lbs. With my group of buddies that I go up with, I'd say half are smaller(ex: 5'8" 180), and the other half are taller and bigger(I'm the biggest). We did notice that it took the smaller guys less time to learn than the bigger guys. But I never let that bother me.

For your board set up in the pictures, as everyone pointed out, you're toes are way too far off the edge. In my opinion, the person that set you up with the board should've said something. Maybe even the instructor. I understand that resorts can get busy, but how do you expect a first timer to even know how their board is supposed to be set up? That toe overhang is one thing that should not have been missed by them, way too obvious.

Here's what I told my buddy the first time I took him out last year, "It's gonna suck!! We're gonna have fun, but it's gonna suck!! Don't let that discourage you, but it's gonna suck". That's what I told him almost everyday for a week before we went. Most people just say "You'll fall alot, but we'll have fun". To be honest, EVERYONE's first few times sucked. Unless you were born with some god given talent. I think I prepared his mindset for what to expect pretty well. I took him up a total of 6 times. He's got the falling leaf down and slowly progressing. But he hasn't taken any lessons either, just tips from me and other friends. He should take lessons to learn faster, but I'm just happy that he's still going at it.

Also, before anything else, get some type of protection. Especially a helmet. Us big guys hit the ground with a lot more force and speed than smaller people. My helmet has saved me a couple of times. Wrist guards too, our wrists probably can't handle all that weight and force coming down on them. But a helmet for sure, a mind is a terrible thing to smash.

Lastly, be happy with ANY progression. No matter how tiny or big it is. Whether it's getting off the chairlift without falling, being able to slide 10ft without falling, or even standing up without the board sliding out from under you. Just be excited at every little progress. That's how I look at things. I just learned how to ollie a couple of weeks ago, and I was telling on friend about it. He said, "But I thought you were going really really slow, shouldn't you be happy when you can do it top speed or off a big jump". I told him, "I'll be 'happier', but I'm just happy that I got that first part down. If I went straight for it, I probably wouldn't be here telling you about it. I'd probably be pissed off too."


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## bryantp (Dec 1, 2008)

*Learning*

For info on board sizing and width, check this out. It provides charting, details, etc. You need that help. Some say as big as you are, just buy the longest board. That won't work. Check out the charts and the advice from the experts I've collected - I'm not one of them - just the collector.

Get up with your head pointing up the mountain and knees deeply bent. You should be facing down. That's less stress for us larger folk. 

Someone above pointed out that your feet aren't centered on the board. Good advice.

As a former snowboard instructor (only taught beginners for a group on base), I probably taught over 200 students in the few years I did it. We (snowboarders) don't take lessons as a group. I notice you didn't. But, when you decided to ski, you took lessons. H'mmm...

My advice is to take lessons. It shortens the learning curve. While I taught, I got most people riding (somewhat) their first day. We were allocating 2 hours for the lesson although I usually gave 3+ hours. Larger folks (I'm one of them) took longer. Just the way it is. When I've done private lessons for friends, I spend 4 - 5 hours with them. They all ride and can at least do falling leaf turns...usually more. Folks who have skateboarded a lot or skied do the best. The only problem with skiers is that they are accustomed to speed. That makes for epic falls ;-)

When I started, I weighed 255 pounds and I'm 6-foot tall. Now I'm under 230 and will see about 210 - 215 by season's end. There's something to get excited about - snowboarding causes weight loss...if you help a bit.

BTW, I will take a lesson this year when I go to Colorado. I want to get better and I think I'm sticking at a level. I'll report on how that goes ;-)

One more tip - bend you knees more. It provides better shock absorption, better balance, and gives you a shorter falling distance.


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## Grizz (Nov 10, 2008)

bryantp said:


> Some say as big as you are, just buy the longest board. That won't work.


Why not? At 280lb he will be well over the weight recommendation for most brands longest stick. Plug 280lb into that app and I can almost guarantee it will give you the longest boards.


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## bryantp (Dec 1, 2008)

*Board choice*

In many cases you are correct. Overall, you would lose your bet. Having taught beginners including some this size, the thought of a novice riding a 190 cm Skunk Ape frightens me beyond imagination.

Off the top of my head (and I think backed by the charts), something between 166 and 168 may be more appropriate. BTW, the info on the page is more than charts. It has data and consideration far deeper than that...that's why I updated it.

A nice set-up might be a used board (twin tip, old fashioned and cheap), Flow NXT FRX bindings, and boots fitted at a shop by experts.

After riding a year, he could change the board to something he liked, based upon what he learned in that first year. Bindings and boots would carry over.


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## xelxguapo (May 21, 2009)

I agree with bryantp, take the lessons, especially private ones. Since we're bigger, it takes longer for us to learn. With a private lesson, you don't have to worry about other people getting farther ahead and the instructor can give all the attention to you.

As far as board length goes, there isn't really a sure fire formula. I'm 6'1" 245lbs sz12 boots, and I ride a 159W board(Capita Black Death). I love it and about to buy another board for freestyle/park at a smaller length, like a 156W. As long as it's not ridiculously short, like a big guy riding a 153, you should be fine. YOU ride the board, not the other way around.

But because you've got big feet, just make sure it has "W" next to the board length. And also make sure the waist width is as close to 26cm as possible, if not more.

Lastly, just hold off on buying equipment. Rent a couple of different lengths and see what feels better. Because whatever board you end up buying, that's the one that's probably gonna be used for the next 4-5 years. Just ask the instructor or the person renting it out at the resort if you're setup properly. It's probably better to rent from a local store near you, that way they can have more time making sure that you have the right set up. Most resorts get pretty busy, and they'll just look at you, give you your board, and send you on your way.


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## Grizz (Nov 10, 2008)

bryantp said:


> Overall, you would lose your bet.


Nope, just tried it. All the sizes suggested were the longest of the model. It was a very limited number of boards and many boards that would be the right size didn't show up. Kind of a weak app. Lame that it all directed back to an online sales site.

It's funny you bring up the Skunk Ape, that was the specific board I was thinking of when I decide to put "most" in front of "brands longest stick". That's a pretty specialized model. The 180 and 190 models suggest a minimum weight of 130+ and 120+ respectively. That's 150 less than what he weighs so if he wanted a powder specific board it would be the right size for his weight. Not ideal to learn on but for his weight and that model it would be correct. Anything else in Lib Tech's line up and I'd put him on the longest size.


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## xelxguapo (May 21, 2009)

I just checked out that site, and it said i should be riding 166. I'm way off, hahaha.

But I still say ride what makes you happy. I started off with a 164(rented), and I hated it. So one day I rented out a 159 just try it out, and I loved it. When I went and bought my first board, I still had people in my ear "it's too small, it's too small". So I ended up buying a 162. It was okay, but I wasn't as happy as I was with the 159. I know it's only 2cm, but so what.

The site gives a good starting point, but that shouldn't be the final say. The rider should have the final say.

All I'm saying is, ride what makes you happy/comfortable. A happy rider = someone who rides happy.


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## xelxguapo (May 21, 2009)

Grizz is right too. That site doesn't give that many options as far as brands go. There are way more brands/boards than that. The Skunk Ape should definitely be on that list. That's a board made exactly for big guys.


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## Grizz (Nov 10, 2008)

xelxguapo said:


> The Skunk Ape should definitely be on that list. That's a board made exactly for big guys.


I agree. I'd have no problem putting him on the longest of the btx apes at 172. I doubt he could find a used one though, they are fairly rare. Buying a cheap set up, so he could decide if he liked the sport or not, was the priority.


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## bryantp (Dec 1, 2008)

*Board choice*

It's about the size, not the brands. I never look at that. The other data on the site says what you're saying.

BTW...I have a Lib Tech 180. It's very, very hard to turn and not something I'd recommend to any new rider. Go small. Learn. Get bigger or stay small.


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## Grizz (Nov 10, 2008)

bryantp said:


> It's about the size, not the brands. I never look at that. The other data on the site says what you're saying.
> 
> BTW...I have a Lib Tech 180. It's very, very hard to turn and not something I'd recommend to any new rider. Go small. Learn. Get bigger or stay small.


Hey we agree about two things (see post #8). I wouldn't set a new rider up on a 180 either.


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## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

Ok, not as big as you guys but probably older. So to get up more efficiently.

First, as you lie on your back, bend your knees, then raise your board up into the air, then twist your hips to roll over...either right or left. The reasoning, the board is lighter to raise up and rotate than your body...your stomach muscles will thank you.

Secondly, now you should be on your hands and knees...doggie style, then push your self back into a crouching position...your board should then be flat on the ground and you will be in a crouch/squat position...with maybe one hand touching the ground infront of you to merely balance yourself...then just stand up from a squating position...like lifting a barbell. Lots of newbs don't crouch/squat...instead they put their butt up in to the air...thus bent over from the waist and then trying to push their upper body up.

Hopefully this makes sense.


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## bryantp (Dec 1, 2008)

*Board choice*

2 funny.

I don't think wrathful is older than me though...calling you out wrathful ;-) I'm 56. Still, graphic description ;-)


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## xelxguapo (May 21, 2009)

bryantp said:


> It's about the size, not the brands. I never look at that. The other data on the site says what you're saying.


I totally agree. It's definitely not about the brands. But it's nice to see a whole range, because there are tons of brands. Not that any brand is better than others, but it should at least show as many options as possible. I'm just using the Skunk Ape as an example that it definitely shouldn've be on that list, proving that the list is very limited.



Grizz said:


> I agree. I'd have no problem putting him on the longest of the btx apes at 172. I doubt he could find a used one though, they are fairly rare. Buying a cheap set up, so he could decide if he liked the sport or not, was the priority.


Yeah, I was trying to look for a used one last year or a brand new one for cheap after the end of the season. The Ape and Dark Series were the ones I was hunting for. Ultimately ended up with the Capita BDI, but DEFINITELY no complaints here!!!


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## xelxguapo (May 21, 2009)

bryantp said:


> Go small. Learn. Get bigger or stay small.


Wish someone told me that when I first started.


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## Guest (Jan 13, 2010)

Grizz said:


> Boards will have a list of specs that are easy to find on the manufacturers web site. You'll want to choose one with a waist width of 27cm or wider. You might be able to go narrower but it would depend on what type of boots you buy.
> 
> For length, at your weight go for the longest board in a given series.
> 
> ...


Gotcha gotcha. I'm in Buffalo, NY. Yes, I need some smaller boots. I am a bit hesitant to buy without a boarder store's guidance though, but as of yet cant swallow the a boarder store's prices. You are right about my biking though, but that is an addiction, and simply what I do to remain sane... where as with boarding I've had nothing but frustration and hardship so far. That Tora 318 Solo Air fork you see on the bike cost me $250 when it went on sale.

I'm going to see if they cant re-arrange some bindings or boots for me when I go this weekend and make sure they are centered on the board before I even walk out to the hill. Thanks to the advice you've shared.



xelxguapo said:


> I'm a pretty heavy guy myslef. I'm 6'1" and 245lbs. With my group of buddies that I go up with, I'd say half are smaller(ex: 5'8" 180), and the other half are taller and bigger(I'm the biggest). We did notice that it took the smaller guys less time to learn than the bigger guys. But I never let that bother me.
> 
> For your board set up in the pictures, as everyone pointed out, you're toes are way too far off the edge. In my opinion, the person that set you up with the board should've said something. Maybe even the instructor. I understand that resorts can get busy, but how do you expect a first timer to even know how their board is supposed to be set up? That toe overhang is one thing that should not have been missed by them, way too obvious.
> 
> ...


Thank you for the upbeat advice. I have gone today into eastern mountain sports and tried out a bunch of helmets. It seems that once again, Giro is the only one that makes a helmet big enough to fit my huge head. Their Atlas II is the only bike helmet that fit my huge head. I am in contact with an online shop trying to buy a Giro G9 XL for $50 shipped  .. the only downside? I'm stuck with Silver. .. The nicer looking G10 didn't come in XL 



bryantp said:


> For info on board sizing and width, check this out. It provides charting, details, etc. You need that help. Some say as big as you are, just buy the longest board. That won't work. Check out the charts and the advice from the experts I've collected - I'm not one of them - just the collector.
> 
> Get up with your head pointing up the mountain and knees deeply bent. You should be facing down. That's less stress for us larger folk.
> 
> ...


I'll check out the info. As for lessons, read my first post, we did take a group lesson. However, he forgot to teach us how to get up, and instead just wedged his foot under our boards and had us reach for his hand. But my friends figured out how to get up on their own later on, while I was killing myself trying to.



xelxguapo said:


> I agree with bryantp, take the lessons, especially private ones. Since we're bigger, it takes longer for us to learn. With a private lesson, you don't have to worry about other people getting farther ahead and the instructor can give all the attention to you.
> 
> As far as board length goes, there isn't really a sure fire formula. I'm 6'1" 245lbs sz12 boots, and I ride a 159W board(Capita Black Death). I love it and about to buy another board for freestyle/park at a smaller length, like a 156W. As long as it's not ridiculously short, like a big guy riding a 153, you should be fine. YOU ride the board, not the other way around.
> 
> ...


I'll go check if a shop cant help me with fit / rental. We have a couple local, gonna have to sneak out between classes. I'm 85% certain that what I rode was a Burton 167, without a W. The boots however, were monstrously big, far, far bigger than any size-13 footwear I own. With what felt like a lot of room inside as my foot slid into some kind of tight fleece "condom" inside.


*********


To the rest of you guys.. if it was the Burton 167 I'm thinking of, is that too small or too big for me? .. What should I be shooting for? Start out small like the guy bellow me pointed out? How small?


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## Guest (Jan 13, 2010)

wrathfuldeity said:


> Ok, not as big as you guys but probably older. So to get up more efficiently.
> 
> First, as you lie on your back, bend your knees, then raise your board up into the air, then twist your hips to roll over...either right or left. The reasoning, the board is lighter to raise up and rotate than your body...your stomach muscles will thank you.
> 
> ...


ditto, I wasn't squatting, leaving my waist to straighten the last. And I guess having my feet off the edge so far didn't help the situation. I was actually serious when i said I slid down half the hill in perfect balance, backwards on the side of the board and couldn't stand up from going ass-forward. It felt oddly victorious that I didn't fall.. till I tried to get up or turn.


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## bryantp (Dec 1, 2008)

Good length.


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## xelxguapo (May 21, 2009)

167 seems cool to start out with. Just make sure you rent a wide board. Most of the time they'll give it to you right away. But I had times when I started out, and the guy would just give me a board. Then I'd ask if it was wide, tell him what size boot I wore(they always ask), then taking back the board and giving me a wide.

As for the getting up, think about this. I've been boarding for many years now. I can handle some blacks and I can bomb down the blues. But to this day, I still have to roll over and get up from a push up position.:laugh: But who cares, it's all about the riding. 
=======
For the boots, go with what's comfortable. Just like sneakers, different brands have different fits. For example, let's say you wear a size 13 sneaker. Some brands might feel more comfortable in a size 12 boot or maybe a 14. Or they might be true to size and fit a 13 perfect. Just give them a try. If your feet aren't comfortable, it's not gonna matter if your board is a 167 or if it's 10ft long. 

When you decide to buy your own boots, don't put a price on them.


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## bryantp (Dec 1, 2008)

*Large rider*

Snowolf - dead perfect. Well said.


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## tomtom88 (Nov 13, 2008)

I too am a large rider, I'm 6'2 and weigh 320 lbs. One thing I noticed when I first started riding, was that I was too stiff, this sport requires fluidity if you are going to progress. You can't be tense because you won't feel your board and be able to adjust as well as you can when you are loose. Don't give up, once it started "clicking" for me, I didn't want to stop. Keep at, I promise the reward is well worth it! And listen to Snowolf, he knows what he's talking about.


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## Guest (Jan 14, 2010)

Snowolf said:


> I have taught bigger guys than you to ride, so stick with it and don`t give up; you can do this...:thumbsup:
> 
> To address your specific issue here of getting up, first off forget about getting up heelside. It is just not worth the frustration. Now, some tips for getting up toeside:
> 
> ...


What I got out of this is that I needed to dig my board in. I remember just putting it on an edge and presuming that my weight would dig it into the mountain as I stood up. I need to take a couple wacks at the snow it seems. Thanks.


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## briangig (Nov 6, 2009)

was thinking of this thread today on the hill. I have been tweaking my stance and angles for the last few days, and discovered I can now get up from heel side alot easier now that my stance is wider (21" something to 23") and my back leg has a bit of an angle to it...just something to think about. I also felt I skidded less and carved more with the wider stance. Def. two thumbs up. Maybe have your stuff set up by a shop who knows what they are doing.


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## Guest (Jan 21, 2010)

I went as I said I would, to ski and board. But the ski lesson was short, and we were stuck on a tiny hill with 5 billion little kids and a "magic carpet" .. it was a tiny hill, and we never left. Except for 2 members of our 4-member class who just walked away and gave up (one of whom managed to fall on the magic carpet). And the 1 guy who just went to meet his wife somewhere. I was the only person left on skis after the 1.5 hour lesson.

The instruction was poor again, we were told how to do pizza slices, but that didnt seem to work for me, I tried a thousand ways to do them through the next several hours, so I tried stopping by turning, and it worked, on the tiny kids hill that we never left.

So, after they all split, I decided to give the bunny hill a shot.. well, my turning "skills" were not up to par when added to speed, and the pizza slice didn't slow me down but made me go FASTER.

A 285lb man, going straight down the hill on skis, I picked up speed like a bat out-a-hell, sending myself into fight-or-flight, trying to stop myself with those slices and turns, and each time while turning ended up spinning, that while looked cool, always ended with a major wipe-out. I hit my chest, HARD, several times.. ejecting from the skis. But worse, I hit my head twice on major wipe-outs, and decided that was it. I couldn't continue on skis or switching to board, without risking losing consciousness on a 3rd wipe-out like the ones I just had. I didn't learn to ski, I didn't know how to either turn or stop, and the cost of teaching it to myself was adding up exponentially. 

So, Holiday Valley, NY. My "learn to snowboard" package did not include any instruction on how to get up, and concluded with a single run down the bunny hill. And my "learn to ski" package didn't include anything but 3-4 runs on the little tot's hill with the magic carpet, all while dodging and trying not to skewer one of the brightly colored, 2 foot tall, aimless walking targets.

I am very frustrated and disappointed. It looked like everyone else could do a lot more, and most people there got instruction from friends. Not 1.5 hour group instruction courses.

Or maybe I just suck, the only Russian to suck at winter sports. Whatever the case, the 15% retention rate of ppl who come back after trying either a board or ski lesson at any resort, makes sense to me now.

In conclusion.. for real.. it all went awful, and I feel I cant do this.. at all. I might try again if a friend was to show me, and not an instructor, or when I lose another chunk of weight, to make the wipe-outs less destructive. I was scaring the children... I had ppl ski up to me, asking me if I was ok.


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## bryantp (Dec 1, 2008)

*Lessons*

You're playing with some serious physics. 

Private lesson for at least half a day...maybe 2 half day lessons.

Talk to the instructor first. Give her/him a list of your goals and discuss if they're reasonable.

Insist on learning to get up first...that's what I taught first in group lessons. 

With a private lesson, you can get the course tailored to your unique needs.


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## briangig (Nov 6, 2009)

Don't get discouraged dude! I am just as big as you are, and see guys my size on the hill, hell one of the instructors is twice my age and just as overweight as I am, and I hear he can shred it. I'd give up on the skiing though, I will never try it unless I get below 200lbs...I just see tendons and knees snapping and twisting haha.

Did you use the Burton Learn to Ride program at Holiday Valley? Surprising it was such a crappy setup. Did you get your bindings setup properly so you dont have any toe drag?


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## Deviant (Dec 22, 2009)

Don't give up!

It sounds like the snowboard lesson was far from proper, but remember this isn't a sport that someone can learn in an hour, it will take time but the reward is well worth it. I agree you need at least one private lesson, and to meet up with that instructor before hand. If it would help, you could even start at the very bottom of the hill, you won't have to worry about picking up too much speed and that will take some of the fear and nasty crashes away. 

Just don't give up, if it were easy everyone would do it. Those of us that do it love it and are passionate about it. The fact you're posting here for help is a good sign that you'll stick with the sport once the basics become easier. Wishing you good luck!


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## Guest (Jan 21, 2010)

bryantp said:


> You're playing with some serious physics.
> 
> Private lesson for at least half a day...maybe 2 half day lessons.
> 
> ...


I believe that a half-day lesson might be out of reach for me, price wise.

My goals? All I want is to stay up-right the whole descent, and if I'm lucky, feel in-control at least 30% of the time.

Perhaps its just out of my reach for the moment.



briangig said:


> Don't get discouraged dude! I am just as big as you are, and see guys my size on the hill, hell one of the instructors is twice my age and just as overweight as I am, and I hear he can shred it. I'd give up on the skiing though, I will never try it unless I get below 200lbs...I just see tendons and knees snapping and twisting haha.
> 
> Did you use the Burton Learn to Ride program at Holiday Valley? Surprising it was such a crappy setup. Did you get your bindings setup properly so you dont have any toe drag?


As I learned the hard way, your skis will snap off your boots before enough force to rip your legs apart. There is however no helping the higher speeds of skiing and the amplification of weight. But that's just my own, inexperienced view.

I dont know the name of their program, but all their loaner and teaching boards are Burton. The guy who taught us was the "kid with a board" that wolf is describing bellow. He explained to us how he was doing it for mountain access too. But he didn't seem mean spirited or impatient.. I just think we ran out of time, and he could only show us a problem once or twice as he had to attend to our group of 6. Still, never learning to get up was a biggie.

I didn't get a 2nd chance to board, and I'm told my bindings were a bit off, since my foot stuck out so much. So I presume the toe drag might have been an issue, I'm just not certain.

I guess I should mention that the instructor was a bit confused about the boards we were given too. He mentioned that they were set up for the wrong foot, but that we would use them anyway. He had me stand and pushed me, and I went ahead with my left foot, and after this he told me the board was wrong but we'd use it anyway since it didn't make much difference.

I do not know what this means, other than assuming regular vs. goofy.. and all I know is the guy at the building asked which foot I kick a ball with, and then gave me a board. I don't know what difference this would make, if any. I thought it was mostly for the strap on the bindings that's required in NY and what foot it had to be attached to.



BurtonX8 said:


> Don't give up!
> 
> It sounds like the snowboard lesson was far from proper, but remember this isn't a sport that someone can learn in an hour, it will take time but the reward is well worth it. I agree you need at least one private lesson, and to meet up with that instructor before hand. If it would help, you could even start at the very bottom of the hill, you won't have to worry about picking up too much speed and that will take some of the fear and nasty crashes away.
> 
> Just don't give up, if it were easy everyone would do it. Those of us that do it love it and are passionate about it. The fact you're posting here for help is a good sign that you'll stick with the sport once the basics become easier. Wishing you good luck!


.. the fear and crashes ..

Before I was this big, I fought for 4 years in the Seido school of Karate, for UB. I have a very strong fight-or-flight instinct that overwrites pre-conceived planning. I presume that in this sport, a lot of what you do boils down to muscle memory and instinct too, and that all that you need to do is repeat the right movements, a lot, till your muscles can just do them.

I need to figure out and repeat the right movements so that same fight-or-flight instinct that takes over as speed builds reacts the right way.

In theory, this should work, as it did on the dojo floor. All planning and fancy techniques go out the window and you function on what instinct and reactions you've built on through repetition. I presume this is similar?

.. the crashes were rough, and my momentum makes me skid pretty far if I'm not stopped by impact. I was just happy I didn't slam into trees or other people. My goggles are in the mail and I'm looking for a deal on a Giro G9 XL helmet. Why? Because I'm a dumbass who doesn't give up when he's beaten.



Snowolf said:


> I am going to echo what Burtonx8 said. Don`t give up. I am not going to blow sunshine up your ass and tell you that this isn`t going to be frustrating, challenging and yes painful. The rewards are great though and honestly, the thing with learning to board is that there really are "light bulb" moments where you suddenly just "get it". The first few days are rough for everyone and are going to be rougher for a bigger guy. You can do this if you want it badly enough!
> 
> I cannot believe the experience you had with both of these classes. Trust me, there are plenty of good instructors out there. You need to get a private lesson. Talk to the ski school about you goals and try to find an instructor who is a little older than the "kid with a board" who is only doing the job for a season pass. A great teacher does not have to be a hot shot rider and often an older person makes a better teacher based on having lived life a little longer and often has more patience and compassion.
> 
> ...


It looks like I'm being dragged to the slopes again by my friends... I'll get to embarrass myself once more.

I've decided on boarding.

I do not know if I'll be able to afford a half-day private lesson, but I'm going to look into it. The goggles I ordered (Giro Score) will be here soon, maybe they'll help my vision a bit.

So far the only lightbulb moment I had was that both skiing and boarding felt easier if I didn't look down, but just ahead.

I'll see if I can get a lesson, but if not, I suspect this will be another weekend of pain. Its still pretty painful to raise my head.. the muscles in my neck for that movement, I used to brace my head as it was headed for impact. The soft tissue damage feels like whiplash, I presume.

It'll be not this weekend, but next. I'll keep track of this thread and any developments.


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## Guest (Jan 21, 2010)

the_red said:


> I believe that a half-day lesson might be out of reach for me, price wise.
> 
> My goals? All I want is to stay up-right the whole descent, and if I'm lucky, feel in-control at least 30% of the time.
> 
> Perhaps its just out of my reach for the moment.


while there is no doubt in my mind that private instruction is the best environment in which to learn, if the cost seems prohibitive, consider a gruop lesson. any resort worth its salt will limit the size of the group in a group lesson to 6 or 8 people so, while you will be sharing the instructors attention with 5 or 7 other people - and, therefore, sharing the cost burden - you'll still learn more in a group lesson than you can teach yourself in a week.

regarding the cost of private lessons, as with anything in life, looking at the cost of anything in isolation deosn't make a whole lot of sense. you have to take into account the associated benefits - i.e. examine the value of the lesson, not the cost.

finally, your goal should not be to _feel in control 30% of the time_ it should be to _*be* in control 100% of the time_. good luck.

alasdair


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## john doe (Nov 6, 2009)

From what you just said it sounds like your board had a completely fucked up set up. Getting the binding angles and width right is extremely important to just being able to bend and move your legs correctly. If they didn't accurately determain if you are goofy or regular then boarding will feel like writing with your wrong hand. The kicking ball question is not accurate. If you are riding a goofy board regular then that to will fuck up the learning process. Basicly it sounds like you got massively fucked over on your rental gear by lazy mountain employees.


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