# Union Force PROBLEMS



## seant46 (Dec 8, 2009)

Word. When I was selecting bindings 2 years ago I was going to go with union because I heard good things about durability but the toe strap scared me away. I went with flux and am loving it:yahoo: Flux changed the toe cap the season after I bought my pair so I cant comment on them now.


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## Extremo (Nov 6, 2008)

What do you mean it sticks? As in the ratchet doesn't release?


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## SHREDDER97 (Aug 1, 2010)

Another thread complaining about union forces.....ahhhhhh


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## StimulisRK (Jul 5, 2012)

What sticks? The ratchet?


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## Joe Coffee (Dec 12, 2012)

The ratchet sticks. Its like I have to pull on it hard to release it and when it does release its like a pop like its breaking but its not. The ankle strap releases real nice but the toe strap is a bitch. And no it is not cranked all the way down. There is about 4-5 teeth showing.


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## seant46 (Dec 8, 2009)

When your pulling up on the ratchet do you just pull the lever up? I have found with some bindings they open easier if you pull the ratchet lever up with your main fingers while applying pressure downwards on the opposite end of the lever with your thumb.

Wow thats hard to explain, but hopefully it will help:dunno:


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## Extremo (Nov 6, 2008)

Joe Coffee said:


> The ratchet sticks. Its like I have to pull on it hard to release it and when it does release its like a pop like its breaking but its not. The ankle strap releases real nice but the toe strap is a bitch. And no it is not cranked all the way down. There is about 4-5 teeth showing.


Yeah the toe ratchets are a bitch. You have to kung-fu grip the shit out of it to get it to pop. Still love 'em though.


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## yimingration (Sep 30, 2009)

I had the same issue with my Union force... I feel your pain. This year I went Flux, no ratchet problem at all.


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## Joe Coffee (Dec 12, 2012)

Going out tomorrow....I either find a solution and decide I will keep them.....or I'll sell them. Really pisses me off....270 dollar bindings and coming from a binding only company and I get this.


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## StimulisRK (Jul 5, 2012)

How many times have you ridden them?



seant46 said:


> When your pulling up on the ratchet do you just pull the lever up? I have found with some bindings they open easier if you pull the ratchet lever up with your main fingers while applying pressure downwards on the opposite end of the lever with your thumb.
> 
> Wow thats hard to explain, but hopefully it will help:dunno:


^ This helps, i know what you're trying to say


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## Joe Coffee (Dec 12, 2012)

I have ridden them for 15 hours in total. Everything is great about the bindings except the toe strap.


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## phony_stark (Jul 2, 2011)

The toe strap buckle will not be as buttery as a burton ever, but will loosen up around day 7 or so. 

I prefer the non-compromise of Union's strap/buckle because I know it's not coming off of my boot until I want it to. I can't say the same for a couple of other binding companies I use(d). 

It just takes a small pop a the end of the run, use some muscles. However, if taking off a toe strap with more effort is that much of a deal breaker....move on, I guess.

JoeJoe, how many teeth are showing on the ladder when you're cranked down?


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## KBNYY (Jan 8, 2012)

I'd agree, my Burton's were like butter pulling off the toe strap and these are a bit of a struggle. Other than that, I like the Union's very much. Althoughhhhh it is a pain because the Cartel's were a quick flip and I was out of my binding and ready to go and these take me a few seconds more.


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## Extremo (Nov 6, 2008)

phony_stark said:


> The toe strap buckle will not be as buttery as a burton ever, but will loosen up around day 7 or so.
> 
> I prefer the non-compromise of Union's strap/buckle because I know it's not coming off of my boot until I want it to. I can't say the same for a couple of other binding companies I use(d).
> 
> ...


Nah, this isn't ever going to get better. I'm about 20+ days on mine and it's still the same. It appears the teeth have quite a slant on them so the stopper in the ratchet doesn't release cleanly. It really gets locked in there. Burton and Flux use a 3 stage ratchet design and Union is a 2. They release in different ways. What you do get though is absolutely no stripping of the ladder with this design. 3 stage ratchets lift as you ratchet and skip teeth. It's a trade off either way. I prefer the ratcheting power of the Union ratchets over the easy release of the Burton and Flux.


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## jliu (Jan 20, 2009)

3D Thingrip Toe Strap Upgrade Kit Bindings | Ride Snowboards 2012-2013

Some guy before has macgyver-ed these into unions before. If I was ever going to get Unions...this would be the first mod I do.


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## Ocho (Mar 13, 2011)

seant46 said:


> When your pulling up on the ratchet do you just pull the lever up? I have found with some bindings *they open easier if you pull the ratchet lever up with your main fingers while applying pressure downwards on the opposite end of the lever with your thumb.*
> 
> Wow thats hard to explain, but hopefully it will help:dunno:


That's what I do with my Unions. Especially on the toe strap ratchet.

When I struggle to release it it's because I've forgotten that part - applying opposite pressure. 

Really not an issue; no struggle or brute force required that way.

Good luck.


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## Backcountry (Nov 27, 2012)

What's with Union and their toe caps! I hear they're good but there's always a complaint with the toe caps. :icon_scratch::huh:


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## phony_stark (Jul 2, 2011)

It's a pretty antiquated argument. They had a toecap before 2011-2012 where, if you didn't dial it in correctly it would slip off of the toe. I had the problem as well, but then I sat down and figured it out. The pre produciton, new designed toe cap was a little big and people who demo'd were up in arms, so they fixed that too.

The current production toecap, aside from the buckles being a little sticky, is my favorite as it grips the boot in every condition I have encountered. 

Word on the street is Union has quick release buckles for 2014....that's just word on the street.


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## Chef Jer (Apr 3, 2011)

phony_stark said:


> It's a pretty antiquated argument. They had a toecap before 2011-2012 where, if you didn't dial it in correctly it would slip off of the toe. I had the problem as well, but then I sat down and figured it out.
> 
> The new toecap, aside from the buckles being a little sticky, is my favorite as it grips the boot in every condition I have encountered.
> 
> Word on the street is Union has quick release buckles for 2014....that's just word on the street.


Gonna disagree...... Union toe cap works great with square toe boots... sucks with rounded smooth toe boots. Union said issue was my Salomon boots and recommended I change my boot brand (to more of a boxed toed boot) to fix my issue with toe cap. To their credit they did offer to send older Force toe caps. :dunno:


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## Derp (Feb 3, 2012)

I was having toe strap issues with my new Force as well, but after spending a good couple hours on this thread (starting around this page) I was able to pretty much dial them in to perfection.

EasyLoungin

Toe strap is no longer riding over the top of my AF1 and I also have a much easier time releasing the strap.

Bottom line - not all boots fit the same in all bindings. I really had to tweak the shit out of them, but couldn't be happier that I took the time to do it.


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## Extremo (Nov 6, 2008)

Backcountry said:


> What's with Union and their toe caps! I hear they're good but there's always a complaint with the toe caps. :icon_scratch::huh:


It's because they don't offer a true cap. Union won't offer a true cap because of legal issues (they don't hold the patent). Essentially the front lip of the Union cap doesn't curve inward. It's insignificant. Most of the problems people have are because of user error. I guess people really need fool proof gear now a days.



Chef Jer said:


> Gonna disagree...... Union toe cap works great with square toe boots... sucks with rounded smooth toe boots. Union said issue was my Salomon boots and recommended I change my boot brand (to more of a boxed toed boot) to fix my issue with toe cap. To their credit they did offer to send older Force toe caps. :dunno:


I'd have to disagree with this. I have boots with both rounded and boxed toes. They work great with both. I always hear the opposites of these arguments. One guy couldn't get it to work with the rounded toe but can with the boxed, the next guy can't get it to work with the boxed but can with the rounded. The new split cap is pretty decent. 



Derp said:


> I was having toe strap issues with my new Force as well, but after spending a good couple hours on this thread (starting around this page) I was able to pretty much dial them in to perfection.
> 
> EasyLoungin
> 
> ...


Take the time, get it dialed in, and it's as good as any other. Unless you're just looking for a reason to bitch.


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## Chef Jer (Apr 3, 2011)

Extremo said:


> I'd have to disagree with this. I have boots with both rounded and boxed toes. They work great with both. I always hear the opposites of these arguments. One guy couldn't get it to work with the rounded toe but can with the boxed, the next guy can't get it to work with the boxed but can with the rounded. The new split cap is pretty decent.


The recommendation to buy a more boxed toe boot came from Union to me in a PM.:dunno: 

I've got nothing against Union... outside of the toe strap they're my favorite bindings I've owned and rode. I rode my Cartel's last weekend and spent the whole time wishing I was on the Sl's. I've actually decided to keep the bindings and go frankenbindings.

Everyone can keep defending the toe strap but we don't see as many threads with people having issues with other companies toe strap.


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## seant46 (Dec 8, 2009)

I think everyone should get over the fact the toe cap sucks on _some_ shapes of boots


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## jjz (Feb 14, 2012)

Im riding 2011 union forces and my bro is riding 2012 unions (forget which model). 

We both struggled in the beginning but eventually we both subconsciously got better at it and now it pops off easy.

It also integrates perfecty with my 2012 Burton Grails


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## Joe Coffee (Dec 12, 2012)

Well guys Thanks for the tips. Also thanks to union for EXCELLENT customer service! I emailed and had a reply within 24 hours saying they would send me new ratchets, new toe caps and ladders for free. All this happened within 48 hours! Very pleased with this service. I will keep tweaking the toecaps and try to get them right. Thanks again guys!


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## seant46 (Dec 8, 2009)

Joe Coffee said:


> Well guys Thanks for the tips. Also thanks to union for EXCELLENT customer service! I emailed and had a reply within 24 hours saying they would send me new ratchets, new toe caps and ladders for free. All this happened within 48 hours! Very pleased with this service. I will keep tweaking the toecaps and try to get them right. Thanks again guys!


Good to hear about the service, happy shreddin!


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## Snowboardit (Oct 10, 2012)

After being extremely frustrated with the toe straps, one thing I found helpful is to just get them replaced. Unfortunately with my luck, I got shitty Burton ones that don't tighten all the way.. -.-


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## Extremo (Nov 6, 2008)

Snowboardit said:


> After being extremely frustrated with the toe straps, one thing I found helpful is to just get them replaced. Unfortunately with my luck, I got shitty Burton ones that don't tighten all the way.. -.-


I did the same. Replaced my Atlas straps with Get-a-grip's. They don't tighten well and when you try they strip. I went back to the Atlas. 

What didn't you like about the Force straps? I found this years to be their best rendition yet. It's got more of a curve to it than my Atlas strap does. I found it caps pretty snug.


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## neshawnp (Jan 29, 2013)

i was helping a kid out last weekend, he had the union mc bindings, and the toe strap was stuck on maaaaaaaad tight. crazy tension, and he JUST bought them. carry an allen key with you, just in case. after a good while, way more then we should have spent, we were able to get em free.:thumbsdown:


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## East§ide (Mar 14, 2011)

phony_stark said:


> It's a pretty antiquated argument. They had a toecap before 2011-2012 where, if you didn't dial it in correctly it would slip off of the toe. I had the problem as well, but then I sat down and figured it out. The pre produciton, new designed toe cap was a little big and people who demo'd were up in arms, so they fixed that too.


weird, i had 2012 forces with the same problem. not THAT antiquated.


Chef Jer said:


> Gonna disagree...... Union toe cap works great with square toe boots... sucks with rounded smooth toe boots. Union said issue was my Salomon boots and recommended I change my boot brand (to more of a boxed toed boot) to fix my issue with toe cap. To their credit they did offer to send older Force toe caps. :dunno:


doesnt anyone else see the issue when theyre telling you to buy new boots to fit their shitty 10$ toe caps?


Extremo said:


> Take the time, get it dialed in, and it's as good as any other. Unless you're just looking for a reason to bitch.


you saw the pics.. cmon now.


seant46 said:


> I think everyone should get over the fact the toe cap sucks on _some_ shapes of boots


why? theyre a binding only company? it doesnt take a genius to make a toe strap/cap that wont fall off. but apparently geniuses wouldnt have designed these because CLEARLY wet leather is not going to give a tight hold against ANYTHING.


Extremo said:


> I did the same. Replaced my Atlas straps with Get-a-grip's. They don't tighten well and when you try they strip. I went back to the Atlas.


It speaks volumes when the biggest Union supporter here is using the Burton caps.


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