# NY Times Article: Has Snowboarding Lost Its Edge?



## BurtonAvenger (Aug 14, 2007)

^ Your thoughts are stupid. Less people = less money which = higher cost. Don't know about you but I really don't want to see $150 day tickets here, pricepoints jumping another 50 to 100 dollars on gear, and my pro friends having to sign with shitty brands because they can't make the money they deserve.


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## Maierapril (Oct 25, 2011)

NightRider2613 said:


> Hey Y'all,
> Someone sent me a link to the following article from the NYTimes in which the author claims that snowboarding is "losing its edge." I figured I would post and get everybody fired up a little bit before the weekend.
> 
> Here is the link:
> ...


This has to be one of the dumbest, loaded opinions that I have read in a long while. I'm sure that most people will agree that they'd rather have job security, be able to provide for their families, and not have to struggle to make ends meet than to be able to board a few more days out of the week.

As for the comment of people with minimal riding skills, not everyone starts out at T Rice's current skill level. All people start out as beginners with little to no knowledge and they progress.


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## stupidmop (Oct 18, 2012)

If you have a professional career then NO HOBBIES FOR YOU.


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## extra0 (Jan 16, 2010)

nice contribution to the forum, but seems like a slow news day at NYT. 

I snowboard for me...don't care much for what's trendy. My boards aren't the norm and, even though I can (currently) afford the most premium equipment, my outerwear is medium-low end, my goggles even lower. It's just stuff that is the most functional for me/my local conditions. As long as it's still dumping snow and my mountain is still taking me to the top, I don't care what anyone else is doing.


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## sheepstealer (Aug 19, 2009)

The author is actually a fairly well known adventure journalist and has written for a number of well known outdoor magazines/publications including Outside Magazine. I'm guessing he probably skis/rides and he probably has some decent connections in the adventure-sport world so I do not doubt the statistics he throws out. 

Still, at the end of the day its pure speculation. 

I can think of a number of reasons why the article might be true. Like the article says, snowboarding has always held a "younger" generation (no offense to the older guys on here, this is just a hypothesis). Would it be safe to say that over the last several years snowboarding has declined due to the economy falling out and younger people deciding to forego lift tickets, rentals, lessons, transportation costs, etc? Just an idea.


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## goalieman24 (Aug 28, 2009)

Maierapril said:


> This has to be one of the dumbest, loaded opinions that I have read in a long while. *I'm sure that most people will agree that they'd rather have job security, be able to provide for their families, and not have to struggle to make ends meet than to be able to board a few more days out of the week.*
> 
> As for the comment of people with minimal riding skills, not everyone starts out at T Rice's current skill level. All people start out as beginners with little to no knowledge and they progress.


Word. Quoted and bolded for truth.


Funny about the "true riders" piece in the original post. To consider yourself a "true rider" yet get all butt-hurt over a measly article...:dunno:


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## itchynscratchy (Nov 16, 2010)

Wait till you have kids and see how much free time you'll have to get to the mtns


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## that1guy (Jan 2, 2011)

^^^ I have 2 and ride at least 3 days a week. Sometimes the kids come with, sometimes I go alone. 



Either way, who really gives a shit what the NYT thinks? :dunno:


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## blunted_nose (Apr 26, 2012)

Fuck you all. Snowboard or die. I agree with the OP, people that keep the industry going are those who sacrifice things in life so they can ride... I am the same, heck i even quit a job to go snowboarding... it was a shitty job but non the less. Real snowboarders are those who life for it, not shitty gear reviewers that complain about the costs and pro friends who cant afford to snowboard.... 
I would much rather work a shitty ass job that fucked me up my ass so i could board every day, then worry about the promotion... If you care about your family you might want to get your priorities straight.... LOL, wut? i dont know.... felt like stating a bunch of bullshit. But seriously, i love snowboarding and nobody will stand in my way....

End of retarder rant, shit storm initiating.... 3.... 2.... 1....


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## blunted_nose (Apr 26, 2012)

Second thought: New snowboarder emerging each day, Better then the riders before them, tons of them. they push snowboarding to the next level and the old guys simply cant follow. Name one pioneer of snowboarding that could throw down a triple cork?


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## Big Foot (Jan 15, 2013)

NightRider2613 said:


> For me, I say good riddance. *I am 31 and I make it to the mountain at least four times/week. What's their excuse?* They are too busy to ride because they are giving their boss a rimjob so that they can get the big promotion? If toolbags are focusing on climbing the corporate ladder instead of riding, then they weren't true riders in the first place.


That's great that you have a job with a lot of flexibility, most people don't. For the average Ameircan a work week consists of 40 hours between Monday and Friday. This only leaves a total of two days for that individual to partake in a hobby. I, like the average American work a standard Monday through Friday work week. As much as I would love to spend the entire weekend on the mountain (which I have already done multiple times this year), I cannot do it every weekend. Somtimes I am limited to one trip a week, or if something important is going on that weekend I might not even make it to the mountain hmy:. 

I've been boarding for 12 years, and absolutely love the sport, but let's face it, snowboarding for me is a hobby. Somtimes real life takes precedent over hobbies. If that doesn't make me a "true rider" then so be it, but to me it sounds like your opinion of a "true rider" is someone with no job that just snowboards all day living off their parents and stickin' it to the man. That's not me. I would like to note; however, that I have never given my boss a rimjob.


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## Maierapril (Oct 25, 2011)

blunted_nose said:


> Fuck you all. Snowboard or die. I agree with the OP, people that keep the industry going are those who sacrifice things in life so they can ride... I am the same, heck i even quit a job to go snowboarding... it was a shitty job but non the less. Real snowboarders are those who life for it, not shitty gear reviewers that complain about the costs and pro friends who cant afford to snowboard....
> I would much rather work a shitty ass job that fucked me up my ass so i could board every day, then worry about the promotion... If you care about your family you might want to get your priorities straight.... LOL, wut? i dont know.... felt like stating a bunch of bullshit. But seriously, i love snowboarding and nobody will stand in my way....
> 
> End of retarder rant, shit storm initiating.... 3.... 2.... 1....



The people that keep the industry going are the people that are able to AFFORD the products and services that drive the growth of the snowboarding industry, not through the shitty jobs so you speak of that allows you to barely cover the cost of rent let alone be able to purchase the gear and services that companies depend on to thrive through profits.


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## blunted_nose (Apr 26, 2012)

Maierapril said:


> The people that keep the industry going are the people that are able to AFFORD the products and services that drive the growth of the snowboarding industry, not through the shitty jobs so you speak of that allows you to barely cover the cost of rent let alone be able to purchase the gear and services that companies depend on to thrive through profits.


I know, i was trolling....


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## trapper (Jan 15, 2013)

Personally, I would rather a mountain be covered by a bunch of snowboarders than a bunch of skiers, so I would probably be disinclined to agree that fewer snowboarders is a good thing. I never have a problem with other snowboarders, but skiers however, don't even get me started (I'm generalizing here of course, based on personal experiences).

I say our mission is not to weed out the newcomers (of which I sorta am having started only a couple years ago) and instead should be to convert non-riders into riders and skiers into riders to overrun them on the mountain.


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## itchynscratchy (Nov 16, 2010)

that1guy said:


> ^^^ I have 2 and ride at least 3 days a week. Sometimes the kids come with, sometimes I go alone.
> 
> 
> 
> Either way, who really gives a shit what the NYT thinks? :dunno:



i should've been more specific...kids as in toddlers/babies.


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## liner (Jan 8, 2013)

Sadly it's probably because of the economy. GENERALLY speaking, skiing is still seen as a more fluid classy sport associated with the high/middle class. As big as snowboarding is now, i think it's more casual. A lot if riders I know have good jobs and rude for fun, rather than also getting brought up in those family ski weekends. 

Point is, if the upper half if the social class primarily skis, which may be a safe assumption, and all price point are going up, skiing and riding has become significantly more expensive. And if more riders than skiers are opting to spend there money elsewhere, rather than on weekend trips, that'd explain it to me. 

Ride as much as you can. It's good for the soul. But the whole ski/snowboard separation hate is just lame nowadays. Who cares if there's more skiers than riders. We're all there tk enjoy the day


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## trapper (Jan 15, 2013)

liner said:


> Ride as much as you can. It's good for the soul. But the whole ski/snowboard separation hate is just lame nowadays. Who cares if there's more skiers than riders. We're all there tk enjoy the day


Yeah I know. My comment just stemmed from the fact that I've had many more negative encounters in terms of near crashes, rude behavior, etc directed at me by skiers than snowboarders. At the end of the day, you're right, we're all there to enjoy it and the more demand for snowsports in general, the more likely we are to see new hills open up, places expand, etc. so we'd all benefit.


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## liner (Jan 8, 2013)

trapper said:


> Yeah I know. My comment just stemmed from the fact that I've had many more negative encounters in terms of near crashes, rude behavior, etc directed at me by skiers than snowboarders. At the end of the day, you're right, we're all there to enjoy it and the more demand for snowsports in general, the more likely we are to see new hills open up, places expand, etc. so we'd all benefit.


Oh haha I didn't even see that's was just responding to the article lol.


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## NightRider2613 (Feb 28, 2012)

Well fuck me, that caused the shitstorm of all shitstorms…..anyway, let me clarify a bit to keep the flames at bay. I wrote the damn thing in the heat of the moment after reading the article and getting pissed at the fact that the author seemed to imply that snowboarding was dying a slow death solely due to the fact that former riders were staying home and slaving behind a desk instead of pursuing their hobby. Don’t know why I got so fired up about a NY Times article, but I guess it has been one of those days. 

I think the thing that gets me is that I have plenty of friends that sit around all day in an office, come home, watch t.v. for hours, and then go to bed. Rinse and repeat, and that is their life. I think the bigger issue here is a commentary on the state of leisure activities in this country in general. Stats continue to show that Americans spend much less time pursuing leisure activities and far more time connected to their offices as compared other workers in the industrialized world, especially with the advent of cellphones, computers, pagers, and the like. I think that is what pisses me off. As a country, I think we are a bit too obsessed with our careers to the detriment of our passions, and yes, by extension, our families. Some of my fondest memories are from when I was a kid and my dad and I went skiing at the local mountains. That is what we need to get back to. I work a five day a week, 40 hour job as do most people, but I also make time for my interests. I don’t have any kids, but if I did, I would be taking them with me to the mountain and teaching them how to ride. 

We absolutely need to keep more people on the mountain, but we need return visitors more than anything else, not just people that come to try it for the day and never come back. We especially need young people to keep riding but of course that also requires parents that have enough free time to take them to the mountain. I want new people to learn the sport, and gapers will always be gapers, but I just think this is going to be difficult to do in the bullshit, cutthroat, capitalist-competitive paradigm that we live in where workers aren’t paid their fair share, and time off is more of a luxury than a right. As others have noted, this is especially true in this current piece of shit economy where many workers are held hostage by their jobs.

That is what the article was hinting at, it is where my frustration lies, and that is what I was trying to discuss as well. Sorry if I offended, it certainly wasn’t my intent to piss anybody off.


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## Maierapril (Oct 25, 2011)

NightRider2613 said:


> Well fuck me, that caused the shitstorm of all shitstorms…..anyway, let me clarify a bit to keep the flames at bay. I wrote the damn thing in the heat of the moment after reading the article and getting pissed at the fact that the author seemed to imply that snowboarding was dying a slow death solely due to the fact that former riders were staying home and slaving behind a desk instead of pursuing their hobby. Don’t know why I got so fired up about a NY Times article, but I guess it has been one of those days.
> 
> I think the thing that gets me is that I have plenty of friends that sit around all day in an office, come home, watch t.v. for hours, and then go to bed. Rinse and repeat, and that is their life. I think the bigger issue here is a commentary on the state of leisure activities in this country in general. Stats continue to show that Americans spend much less time pursuing leisure activities and far more time connected to their offices as compared other workers in the industrialized world, especially with the advent of cellphones, computers, pagers, and the like. I think that is what pisses me off. As a country, I think we are a bit too obsessed with our careers to the detriment of our passions, and yes, by extension, our families. Some of my fondest memories are from when I was a kid and my dad and I went skiing at the local mountains. That is what we need to get back to. I work a five day a week, 40 hour job as do most people, but I also make time for my interests. I don’t have any kids, but if I did, I would be taking them with me to the mountain and teaching them how to ride.
> 
> ...


I think this just boils down to the fact that you have lazy friends and it's time to make some new ones.

Instead of spending the day watching hours of TV after work, they could be doing something more productive. 
Hell...after working 10 hours in the office, I still drive up to the slopes to get a few hours in at the park before going back home to pass out, it's just all about where your priorities are.


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## trapper (Jan 15, 2013)

Maierapril said:


> Hell...after working 10 hours in the office, I still drive up to the slopes to get a few hours in at the park before going back home to pass out, it's just all about where your priorities are.


Yes but even then it's tough to do something like that during the week when you're busy all the fucking time with either work or shit at home. For example, I don't get home till 6:30 during the week, then I grab dinner, get an hour to hang out with my kids before putting them to bed. That usually takes 20 minutes. So by the time I can even THINK about having some time to myself it's already past 8 and the nearest place to ride is a good 40 minute drive from my house. I would LOVE to ride every night, but having all this shit really prevents me from doing it (and I am in no way trying to climb a corporate ladder. I never take work home).

I guess my point is that even though one of my priorities would be to ride as much as possible, it's just not going to happen unless it's a weekend for me and even that's not always easy. But I'm far from lazy. It's just logistically not something I can do during the week and maybe that is what this article is hinting at. Though I do generally agree with many of Nightrider's points in his last post, I think you can still be a dedicated rider who loves the sport but can't get out as much because of life getting in the way without being lumped into the classification of a lazy ass or a wannabe. 

One thing's for sure, when my little ones are a few years older, they will be going with me to the slopes.


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## Tarzanman (Dec 20, 2008)

Its a combination of factors, but I'd guess that the current state of the economy is to blame.

Snowboarders tend to be younger. If you don't live within driving distance (8 hours or less, say) of a slope then it is BIG dollars to snowboard.

A trip with 3 days worth of riding out west would cost me a minimum of $600-$700, and that is only if I found $200 airfare,a resort with $65 lift tickets (Loveland?), and ~$50 a night lodging. I already own my own gear, so a new rider might spend another $400 more. Atlanta is a big airline hub, so it is probably cheaper to fly from here than many other places.

In contrast, If I lived close to a hill, $600-$700 would buy me a season pass to one or two of them.

Spending most of your rent on a 3 day winter vacation is less and less a viable option with disposable incomes falling in the USA.

The 20-somethings who would ordinarily replace the now-30-somethings on the hill have having very hard times finding decent jobs, which is why less of them have the cash to learn to snowboard.

Bicycles are cheap. PS3's are cheap, even booze-filled road trips to Savannah for St. Patty's or New Orleans for Mardi Gras are cheap compared to snowboarding regularly.

If/when the economy improves, numbers will go back up... unless global warming starts melting all the snow off the mountain!


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## JeffreyCH (Nov 21, 2009)

Tarzanman said:


> Its a combination of factors, but I'd guess that the current state of the economy is to blame.
> 
> Snowboarders tend to be younger. If you don't live within driving distance (8 hours or less, say) of a slope then it is BIG dollars to snowboard.
> 
> ...


That's exactly what I thought when I read the NYT article earlier. The wages for entry level jobs has been stagnate for a long time. I remember when I got my first 10/hour job(early 90's), at the time most of my friends were making 4-5/hr. I was in hog heaven, by the time that job got shipped to Mexico, I was making 18/hr. My son has been working the same place for 2 years now and just got a "raise" to 9.50/hr, and most around here still think 10/hour is a good job. I don't really see how the hell anyone gets by on 10/hr these days, things are at least 3 times as much as back in my day. 

Beyond that I found this little gem from the L.A. Times, it claims older people are switching back to skiing because it's easier on the body :icon_scratch: 

Snowboarding craze cools as new designs make skiing easier - latimes.com


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## poutanen (Dec 22, 2011)

Here's my favorite quote from the article...

"One reason may be that snowboarding simply doesn’t have the rebel cachet that it once did. Skiing has appropriated everything from snowboarding’s swagger to its trendy clothing to technology like fat skis. Simply put, it’s cool to be on two planks again."

Oh god no. No it isn't. Like rollerblades vs. skateboards this recent surge of young kids wanting to ski instead of board will soon pass.

Or maybe we'll end up with another generation of kids that grew up skiing, and switched to boarding when they get bored on two planks?!? :dunno:


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## KIRKRIDER (Mar 18, 2008)

And who cares?  less people on my POW. My most precious piece of equipment is my season pass. After my legs.


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## luckboxing (Nov 16, 2010)

Snowboarders dropped from "nearly one-third of visitors" two years ago to 30.2% according to a survey by the National Ski Areas Association.

Snowboarding confirmed dead.


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## Donutz (May 12, 2010)

As far as the cost of the sport is concerned, who cares if it's snowboarders or skiers? The resorts charge the same amount. Interestingly the article doesn't seem to come right out and say that total numbers are down, although the numbers they _do_ reference would indicate that.

I _have_ heard teenagers say that they are skiing to do something different. So like Microsoft, snowboarding has gone from being the plucky upstart to being the evil empire. :blink:


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## stupidmop (Oct 18, 2012)

I find young people switching to skiing odd. I wonder if they have a background in other board sports? I started snowboarding when I was 13. It seemed like the natural thing to do because I also skateboarded and dabbled a little in surfing. Skiing was always out of the question because that background. 

Additionally only nerds skied in the 90s.


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## BurtonAvenger (Aug 14, 2007)

blunted_nose said:


> Fuck you all. Snowboard or die. I agree with the OP, people that keep the industry going are those who sacrifice things in life so they can ride... I am the same, heck i even quit a job to go snowboarding... it was a shitty job but non the less. Real snowboarders are those who life for it, not shitty gear reviewers that complain about the costs and pro friends who cant afford to snowboard....
> I would much rather work a shitty ass job that fucked me up my ass so i could board every day, then worry about the promotion... If you care about your family you might want to get your priorities straight.... LOL, wut? i dont know.... felt like stating a bunch of bullshit. But seriously, i love snowboarding and nobody will stand in my way....
> 
> End of retarder rant, shit storm initiating.... 3.... 2.... 1....





blunted_nose said:


> Second thought: New snowboarder emerging each day, Better then the riders before them, tons of them. they push snowboarding to the next level and the old guys simply cant follow. Name one pioneer of snowboarding that could throw down a triple cork?





blunted_nose said:


> I know, i was trolling....


You're a moron. Also Chad Otterstrom 36 years old 1080 dub corks. Kevin Jones same age as Chad triple backflip. 

Also pretty sure I clocked more days this week than you have this month. 

Face the facts you as a turd nugget don't support snowboarding in any capacity.

Keep trolling little guy maybe one day you'll actually be good. 



Maierapril said:


> The people that keep the industry going are the people that are able to AFFORD the products and services that drive the growth of the snowboarding industry, not through the shitty jobs so you speak of that allows you to barely cover the cost of rent let alone be able to purchase the gear and services that companies depend on to thrive through profits.


Pretty much summed it up.

The truth is the people that drive skiing and snowboarding are those that go on vacations 1 to 2 times a year. Their maximum number of days doesn't exceed double digits. They buy new gear every other year or every three years. They buy that 10 dollar burger in the base area, they stay in that 100 dollar a night hotel room, etc. etc.

Case in point I grew up in a ski town. I never bought a pass to that resort and didn't buy my first season pass till I was 22 and even then I paid 48 dollars for it. Rode 100 plus days on it, and rarely bought anything at the resort. You think they made money on me?

In Summit County if I pay $550 for my season pass I have it paid before the end of October on an average year. I had 60 days before X mas this year, you think the resort made money on me from that? Nope. I can't remember the last time I bought food in the base area of Breck since the town is right there. They make all their money off the tourists. 

Companies it's the same you think they're moving more $550 priced boards or the $329? It's the lower. 

Hate the gapers, hate the tourists, hate the guys in denim. But those are the people that keep everything going. Economy sucks and those people have less cash to spend so they're doing other things. I commend anyone that can go out and do what they love as much as they physically and economically can afford in this economy. Not everyone is as blessed as someone like myself that made the choice to ride as much pow and park as possible. 




trapper said:


> Yeah I know. My comment just stemmed from the fact that I've had many more negative encounters in terms of near crashes, rude behavior, etc directed at me by skiers than snowboarders. At the end of the day, you're right, we're all there to enjoy it and the more demand for snowsports in general, the more likely we are to see new hills open up, places expand, etc. so we'd all benefit.


People are people whether skier or snowboarder. I got a snowboard instructor fired on the 21st for being a complete douche bag. 

You make a point on new hills. We're losing more hills than we're gaining in the US.


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## Treegreen (Mar 16, 2012)

stupidmop said:


> Additionally only nerds skied in the 90s.


I think the switch is where Poutanen and I disagree. Nerds aren't the only skiers now because you can rock the same snowboarder style. 

I'm not sure how to respond to the article because while I do agree that snowboarding has lost a lot of its "rebel cachet," it has simultaneously become way more accessible to the average person. Which is important because that helps the economic side of things, and why it seems really silly to me to worry about what it means to be "core." Especially if we want to see the snowboard industry grow and innovate.


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## ARSENALFAN (Apr 16, 2012)

Ever since I became financially secure (I am 40), I have been pigging out on snowboard gear. For years I couldn't afford it and just stayed away. Now I cannot get enough. Started last year after a 10-11 year hiatus. Bet you I have spent at least 7500 on gear, passes and base lodge food for my daughter and I since January of last year. Pretty much have everything I need now. But if I see a Cobra on sale in February, just might pull the trigger. Its excessive, but it is a passion and I am hopelessly addicted. Have her in a snowboard lesson this Sunday with her girlfriend...there goes another 80 bucks plus 40 on beer and food for the dads. I chose snow instead of hot vacations. That money is my travel budget.


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## MarshallV82 (Apr 6, 2011)

NightRider2613 said:


> Hey Y'all,
> Someone sent me a link to the following article from the NYTimes in which the author claims that snowboarding is "losing its edge." I figured I would post and get everybody fired up a little bit before the weekend.
> 
> Here is the link:
> ...


I think I'd rather be a tool-bag and continue climbing the ladder! I always worry about the future, luckily my career allows me to ride 3-4 week now. After climbing the ladder for a miserable 5-10 years I make a 6 figure salary and have way more free time. I don't fault anyone for pursing a career over riding everyday, or riding everyday over a career. Just do what feels good and works for you. 

As far the article goes, I think its bullshit. Snowboarding is still very popular and alive. Tourism may have slightly decreased due to state of the economy but it'll pick back up. Summit county is still packed on the weekends, and it brings in a ton of money to keep the mountains going! Us season pass holders don't bring in the big bucks for the resorts. 

Sincerely, a sell-out. :dunno:


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## BurtonAvenger (Aug 14, 2007)

MarshallV82 said:


> As far the article goes, I think its bullshit. Snowboarding is still very popular and alive. Tourism may have slightly decreased due to state of the economy but it'll pick back up. Summit county is still packed on the weekends, and it brings in a ton of money to keep the mountains going! Us season pass holders don't bring in the big bucks for the resorts.
> 
> Sincerely, a sell-out. :dunno:


Summit County isn't hitting the numbers it was just three years ago. The pinch is being felt up here. My building had it's first foreclosure and I got to see a forced eviction by the sheriff this summer. 

Businesses that haven't adapted are seeing numbers off by more than 40%.


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## MarshallV82 (Apr 6, 2011)

BurtonAvenger said:


> Summit County isn't hitting the numbers it was just three years ago. The pinch is being felt up here. My building had it's first foreclosure and I got to see a forced eviction by the sheriff this summer.
> 
> Businesses that haven't adapted are seeing numbers off by more than 40%.


Crazy, I figured there was quite a drop but those are some big numbers!


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## BurtonAvenger (Aug 14, 2007)

Back to back bad winters man. Tourism is a bit better than last year but not where it should be for a town like Breck.


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## JeffreyCH (Nov 21, 2009)

BurtonAvenger said:


> Summit County isn't hitting the numbers it was just three years ago. The pinch is being felt up here. My building had it's first foreclosure and I got to see a forced eviction by the sheriff this summer.
> 
> Businesses that haven't adapted are seeing numbers off by more than 40%.


Ouch!! That's some scary numbers. As a small business owner that went through that kind of decline in revenue in 09/10 I know that kind of pain.


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## IdahoFreshies (Jul 9, 2011)

MarshallV82 said:


> I think I'd rather be a tool-bag and continue climbing the ladder! I always worry about the future, luckily my career allows me to ride 3-4 week now. After climbing the ladder for a miserable 5-10 years I make a 6 figure salary and have way more free time. I don't fault anyone for pursing a career over riding everyday, or riding everyday over a career. Just do what feels good and works for you.
> 
> As far the article goes, I think its bullshit. Snowboarding is still very popular and alive. Tourism may have slightly decreased due to state of the economy but it'll pick back up. Summit county is still packed on the weekends, and it brings in a ton of money to keep the mountains going! Us season pass holders don't bring in the big bucks for the resorts.
> 
> Sincerely, a sell-out. :dunno:


OI can only hope I can score a career like that, where I have plenty of financial stability and the flexibility to have the free time to enjoy that money.


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## Jed (May 11, 2011)

IdahoFreshies said:


> OI can only hope I can score a career like that, where I have plenty of financial stability and the flexibility to have the free time to enjoy that money.


You can. Most people can, it's not so much about 'scoring' but just putting in a little (or a lot of) work, with some intelligent decisions and some balls to give things a go.


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## eelpout (Mar 1, 2009)

The economy, increasing prices of lift tickets ($119(!) at Vail), lack of decent snow for the past few seasons (Colorado is what, at less than 60% average snow pack for the season currently). I think this all contributes. 

Judging by my nephews and their friends, I think snowboarders tend more toward the budget side of things then their skiing peers too. They'd rather build a ramp in their backyard or do rails at school yard then pay for a ticket to do similar stuff at a resort.

MSN Money had a very similar article today.


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## turbospartan (Oct 27, 2010)

eelpout said:


> The economy, increasing prices of lift tickets ($119(!) at Vail), lack of decent snow for the past few seasons (Colorado is what, at less than 60% average snow pack for the season currently). I think this all contributes.
> 
> Judging by my nephews and their friends, I think snowboarders tend more toward the budget side of things then their skiing peers too. They'd rather build a ramp in their backyard or do rails at school yard then pay for a ticket to do similar stuff at a resort.
> 
> MSN Money had a very similar article today.



Actually, I think Vail is $129 a day now. 

As for budget of snowboarders vs. skiers - I think its much cheaper to snowboard. Top of the line snowboard boots cost what, $400 maybe $500? My skier buddy (actually, most of my friends are skiers here) just dropped $1700 on new boots. $1700. That's more than my rent in the Denver suburbs combined with my seasonal rent in the mountains. High end snowboards cost $600-700, almost all skis cost that much. Bindings are super expensive for skiers as well. Shit is crazy, actually. 

That all said, I actually enjoy riding with skiers. Ever been in a flat and think... damn I'm gonna have to unstrap and start skating? With my skier buddies around, they'll be ahead of me and use their pole to slingshot me forward. Not that that's the only reason, but its definitely a plus.


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## poutanen (Dec 22, 2011)

turbospartan said:


> As for budget of snowboarders vs. skiers - I think its much cheaper to snowboard. Top of the line snowboard boots cost what, $400 maybe $500? My skier buddy (actually, most of my friends are skiers here) just dropped $1700 on new boots. $1700. That's more than my rent in the Denver suburbs combined with my seasonal rent in the mountains. High end snowboards cost $600-700, almost all skis cost that much. Bindings are super expensive for skiers as well. Shit is crazy, actually.


You certainly can buy boards much more expensive than $600-700, that's probably the top of the mid-price range.

On average though I'd say you're 100% right. Most people pay $300-500 for a board, $200-250 for bindings, and $200-250 for boots. So $700-$1000 for a complete setup I would say is AVERAGE.

Skiers probably pay close to double that on average.


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## BurtonAvenger (Aug 14, 2007)

No one counts your custom made mono skis dude.


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## brownSnow (Jan 7, 2009)

extra0 said:


> nice contribution to the forum, but seems like a slow news day at NYT.
> 
> I snowboard for me...don't care much for what's trendy. My boards aren't the norm and, even though I can (currently) afford the most premium equipment, my outerwear is medium-low end, my goggles even lower. It's just stuff that is the most functional for me/my local conditions. As long as it's still dumping snow and my mountain is still taking me to the top, I don't care what anyone else is doing.


/\
well said!


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## poutanen (Dec 22, 2011)

BurtonAvenger said:


> No one counts your custom made mono skis dude.


What about the Burton Mystery?!? Boo ya... :yahoo:

There is a market of $700+ snowboards but it's small. Cause the average snowboarder is a poor "anti-establishment" hippy...


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## RockyMTNsteeze (Oct 21, 2012)

BurtonAvenger said:


> Summit County isn't hitting the numbers it was just three years ago. The pinch is being felt up here. My building had it's first foreclosure and I got to see a forced eviction by the sheriff this summer.
> 
> Businesses that haven't adapted are seeing numbers off by more than 40%.


3 years ago we had snow. Snow brings a lot more people out. Just 3 years ago I was often walking out to my truck in the morning with a shovel in knee deep snow. The brush on my ice scraper did not cut it.

Back to the subject.

I don't contribute much in snowboard company profits. I have not bought a current season snowboard ever except one I proformed. I bought a used board this season, and have not bought any new snowboarding stuff for this season, except discounted boots. All of my stuff is either old or was bought very cheap. I had some of the most beat up looking equipment until I recently replaced boots, jacket, and started riding the new board.

I am poor, but I ride about 3-5 days a week. I can get to the mountain for free because of the bus and spend 0 dollars snowboarding. I never spend any money at the resort, except for some independent village businesses. I eat all their granola bars and drink the free cider. I probably cost them money. I have like 50 days thus far, so I have rode my monies worth on my 500 dollar pass. I worked 2 jobs in the summer and was working 60 hours a week for about a month, got a pass. the edge is there for me.

The snowboard companies need to rethink their marketing. I know so many people in my ski town who have children who never have been on the mountain. Maybe companies should start contributing to programs that introduce school age children to snowboarding in ski towns. There's so many kids in my neighborhood. Since a lot of these children are dependents for Vail employees, they already have a pass, but don't have equipment. They recently removed the school's ski/ride program too. A lot of the young adults who grew up here do not ski or snowboard. :dunno:

I skied and rode when I was young and probably would not be snowboarding now if I never went as a child.

You would be surprised to find out how many people live in mountain towns actually don't ski or snowboard. A lot of people hate us snowboarders. So their kids don't either.

Another thing is young people might be spending all their money on all these fancy touch screen devices and technologies. Since I spend all my extra money on snowboarding, I have a 4 year old duct taped notebook computer. Can't buy no computer, dropped my tax return on a pass.


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## BurtonAvenger (Aug 14, 2007)

You think I don't know we had snow 3 years ago? Kind of lived here for almost a whole decade kid. Should do your facts and check the economy along with the local tax roll and see where our money for your free bus comes from.


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## mikez (May 12, 2009)

poutanen said:


> Here's my favorite quote from the article...
> 
> "One reason may be that snowboarding simply doesn’t have the rebel cachet that it once did. Skiing has appropriated everything from snowboarding’s swagger to its trendy clothing to technology like fat skis. Simply put, it’s cool to be on two planks again."
> 
> Oh god no. No it isn't. Like rollerblades vs. skateboards this recent surge of young kids wanting to ski instead of board will soon pass.


I think there's something in this. Snowboarding is great - especially in powder - but let's be honest here, you can do everything on skis now too (probably more, and faster). In Europe, at least, snowboarding is no longer "cooler" than skiing.

I know a few very good multi-discipline folk who have opted for skis and only really bring their boards out for heavy powder surf days. They insist skis are just easier and more flexible.


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## Toecutter (Oct 11, 2009)

mikez said:


> I know a few very good multi-discipline folk who have opted for skis and only really bring their boards out for heavy powder surf days. They insist skis are just easier and more flexible.


I'll agree here. I don't even think of grabbing my snowboard on a hardpack day, and on big powder days skis have the advantage when the terrain flattens out. My rockered fat skis have as much or more surface area as my powder board, and I can't say I miss having to swim out of deep snow lying down on my board.

But...

I like snowboarding simply because of how it feels. Skis might have as much flotation and more adaptability, but those factors only are a part of the equation. Snowboarding in deep pow gives me more of a feeling of euphoria for some reason. I don't understand why really, because I'm sliding on snow either way but facing sideways versus facing forward.


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## t21 (Dec 29, 2010)

Snowolf said:


> Where I ride on Mt. Hood, I am seeing a huge decrease in the crowds overall. While we are not having anything other than a mediocre winter, even on epic powder days, it is now rare for all parking lots to fill when just a few years ago, people were being turned away on peak days.
> 
> Now there is something I am seeing in my coaching activities that does seem to support the author`s opinion. In area ski schools, there is a HUGE increase in demand for ski lessons and a drop off for snowboard. I have never seen so many snowboard instructors having to cross train into skiing just to get work. Area resorts are paying their snowboard instructors to take ski lessons and are giving them free season rentals to free ski more to get more proficient at skiing so they can teach to higher level skiers. I am definitely seeing a noticeable trend favoring skiing over snowboarding for new people getting into snow sports.


question,would you do it if they ask you?:laugh: i've seen more new people go for ski lessons than snowboard except yesterday, the bunny hill was full of riders and i thought that was cool.


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## Donutz (May 12, 2010)

Snowboarding doesn't have the counterculture/rebel vibe any more. I've heard teenagers say they switched to skiing to try something different. So now I guess snowboarding and skiing are competing on an equal basis. Which means among other things, you have the difference in learning curve between the two. Most everyone agrees that skiing is easier to learn (at the beginning) than snowboarding, so I guess a drop in new boarders is inevitable.


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## t21 (Dec 29, 2010)

Snowolf said:


> Funny thing is I have actually coached a ski lesson while riding a board. I have not taken up the ski thing as it is just not something I am even remotely interested in. I am at a point in my life where I don`t really need to and I certainly don`t coach to earn a living so I am only going to do so much and being a skier is`nt on the agenda for me.


right on bro,right on:thumbsup:


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## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

School ski bus...the numbers are down...imo due to economy...4-5 years ago we were taking 5-6 bus loads of kids this year 2 bus loads. The past 2 years there have been more skiers but this year there are more boarders on the buses. The little hill has had more tourist the past 2 years (perhaps due to bad snow years in other parts) but the number of pass holders are down (due to economy). The daily lift rate only rose slightly but generally considered a bargain compared to other hills. And this past saturday, the enitre afternoon, was helping/coaching a skier kid right off the bunny hill down his first black runs...he did great.


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## jojotherider (Mar 17, 2011)

I started my daughter on skis. I figured it would be easier for her to get to a level where she could explore more of the mountain sooner than she could on a snowboard. So far, I've been right. She's able to wedge around and cruise green trails instead of just the bunny hill. My goal was to get her in the mountains and just enjoy it up there. Mission accomplished. This is her 4th season on the snow and she's only 5 1/2.

I also skied in the past and picked up a pair of hybrid camber skis this year (used market). That was mainly because I quit skiing and picked up a board right before shaped skis came out. I can still ski pretty well, but I don't have the same connection as on a board. The board is going to remain my main sliding tool for the foreseeable future.

What I think is happening is that skiing is shedding the high society image that someone mentioned earlier. So kids are able to dress how they want and ski how they want. Its no longer just about burning moguls and running gates. Remember when Johnny Moseley's trick in the Olympics caused a huge stir because he went upside down? Remember when freestyle ski jumping was more akin to gymnastics? Remember when doing tricks was just called Hot Dogging? I think the article got it wrong. Skiing isn't cool again, its just not as lame.

Also, just so everyone knows, my daughter has been asking about snowboarding. I may or may not do it this year. I would like to get her skiing blue runs before making the transition. Plus, the snowboard gear I already have for her doesn't fit yet. 

-joel


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## pzull (Jan 11, 2013)

I started skiing 30 years ago and just recently tried snowboarding as my teenage daughter passed a comment that "old people ski because snowboarding is too difficult for them". Well I did garlands and falling leaf on my first run (after watching video on snowprofessor.com), linked turns on my second run ever all this in first hour of riding. I was a skateboarder 40 years ago so it felt very familiar. So those wanting to pick up snowboarding in one trip should just learn skateboarding in summer and in winter they'll be riding within the 1st 2 days - guaranteed.

I have been riding way more this season than I've skiied and noticed that some skiers would hassle me as a noob snowboarder going slower than them everytime they passed me. I also thought before that snowboarders were a wild and unruly bunch when I was a skier as they would hassle me when I skiing slowing, but since I ski alot faster than I ride (way faster) and I would give chase and an incident follows....especially the time a snowboarder knocked my 10 yr old into a ditch (other side of run was a cliff - I shudder to think what would have happened if he was on the other side). He didnt stop or anything. Reported him to the resort...but nothing. Anyway my point is A-holes will be A-holes whether they ski or ride, they're everywhere, it's life.

One trend I noticed though were my foreign friends from Asia. They were avid skiers skiing 2 different countries every year. As time passed, their entire family switched progressively to snowboarding. Just a few weeks ago, 3 families of skiers vacationed with me in Whistler and they are ALL snowboarders now all 12 of them. I asked why and the reason is Dad is the one that needs to pack and mostly carry all the gear and help the kids get into hard to get into ski boots. All the dads decided snowboarding was more travel friendly. Boards without bindings all pack flat and lighter than skis. Kids can put on boots themselves and bindings don't need adjusting for size and DIN each time junior's feet grows. I heard a forth family they know just switched to snowboarding as well.

I still choose to use my skis when conditions are icy or when I want some speed. 

But yes, this season I see much less snowboarders than last year...even number of snowboard instructors has reduced


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## RVM (Jan 31, 2007)

I did some instructing in Tahoe for the 2010-2011 season and they were pushing me and pushing me to get into skiing. They gave me free demo rentals for the season and set up classes for the snowboard instructors to get lessons from our ski instructors. On busy days there were never enough ski instructors.

Even 3 years ago we had twice as many ski as we did snowboard classes. 

I did the skiing thing for a few weeks but ended up hurting my toes pretty bad. Was told I needed to get some better boots and have them fitted for my feet and to expect to spend at least $1000 for all that even with my proforms. 

Skiing is fun, and there is definitely something to be said for going down the hill face first, but I can't justify the cost of learning it when I still have so much left I want to improve on with snowboarding. 

The one thing I hated about skiing was the fear of knee injury. I've sprained my right MCL twice and that was painful and debilitating enough. I can't imagine shredding an ACL or some crazy shit on skis.


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