# Powder stance - How much setback?



## yojik (Sep 14, 2011)

Hi everyone - I'm 6'3, a muscular 245 and have had difficulty in the past with finding a good stance to ride deep pow. I'm an advanced rider but struggle at times with pow (getting stuck, sinking down).

I understand the concept of pumping the front foot to get the board up and can do that reasonably well, however I don't know if I'm hampering my efforts with an inefficient stance. 

Tomorrow I'm headed to Mt. Baker with my new 2012 burton custom x 164W and have set the back binding -2 in and the front 1 in back from the reference.

Is there any reason why I shouldn't set back 2 inches on the back foot? 

Could anyone recommend a good reference stance that I might be able to work with tomorrow to tweak, esp for a bigger guy like me?

Thanks in advance.


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## Milo303 (Apr 6, 2009)

I try to keep my stance width about the same as I normally have it, and just slide everything back as far as possible.

You're a pretty big guy for a 64.....

I used to weight 200 and ride a 63w and dropped down to 180 and still have a 63w for bigger stuff and play around on a 59w

Just slide everything back as far as you can without sacrificing your stance width, and suck it up.


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## dreampow (Sep 26, 2011)

If its really deep get as far back as the inserts will allow. I also say keep your stance width the same.
Your board is big enough IMO, not the best for powder though, something with rocker would allow you to float more easily and your nose will not dive as much.


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## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

Hey if the temps hold...but looks to be the usual wet and heavy, I'll also be up there on 164 charlie slasher, but I'm at 180# and think its a perfect size for poo days. FWIW, I think you need a bigger poo stick, e.g., 172 range....but on the 164 move everything back as far as possible.


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## Milo303 (Apr 6, 2009)

wrathfuldeity said:


> I'll also be up there on 164 charlie slasher


I'm jearous

You have much time on it? Been hunting more info on the Slasher to see if it's worth buying one new


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## dreampow (Sep 26, 2011)

I forgot that if you are talking heavy and wet as opposed to real powder you might need more, but either way rocker will float way easier than pos camberIMO.


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## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

Milo303 said:


> I'm jearous
> 
> You have much time on it? Been hunting more info on the Slasher to see if it's worth buying one new


Got it from wife and kids last xmass , have maybe 6 days on it for 10-14"+...deepest was 26" day and floated like a dream. Rockered nose floats, cam pintail slightly sinks yet has tail to pop off natty hits and land solidly tail heavy (unlike my banana), no back leg burn and the tail is good for groomers and riding switch on groomers. On really deep days you can get a float on in fairly low angled stuff and haven't noticed any issues on steeps and chutes. However, I have very small feet, size 7 so edge to edge has been a bit cumbersome on packed and groomers....but last evening I put on some 20mm homemade plate risers so it should give me a better angles...I'll see what happens in a few hours. Also thinking about splitting it over the summer for some bc touring.

My other pow stick was/is an Option Northshore 162 cambered pintail; that works fine, rides great for groomers and switch but in 10'+ pow you had to get on the tail...the deeper the pow the more on the tail.


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## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

dreampow said:


> I forgot that if you are talking heavy and wet as opposed to real powder you might need more, but either way rocker will float way easier than pos camberIMO.


Abit off track but I'm not convienced that full rocker is good for pow...due to riding my 159 skate banana in pow tends to fold up abit too much...like the tail and the nose and you just kind of sink unless you keep up a pretty good clip...and once you slow below that speed threshold, you kind of sink instead of plane. I really like the charlie slasher in that it planes better, the tail sinks because of the pintail shape...not because its soft/rockered. And as noted above the cam tail gives you something solid to pop with and land with...where is on the banana you have to land fairly centered and if you land too tail heavy or nose heavy it kind of folds up. Verses with the big shove rocked nose of CS there is enough nose to keep you from going under and a stiff tail to prevent folding up.


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## dreampow (Sep 26, 2011)

True a banana is not ideal but will give more float than an equally long pos camber IMO. I ride a ride highlife which has a stiff tail and middle that is flat with a rockered nose. Its sweet in the pow. I also have a volkl which is a bit like the custom X of the OP, I love it but with the pos camber the nose has a tendency to dive in pow. You have to work to keep it out of the pow at all times.
In fact I have recently DIY rockered the tip on it so it behaves more like the highlife. Just need snow to test it out.

A pow specific board will always be better. Would love to get one at some point but I have just had a baby boy so my wife is wanting to buy a house and adding to my quiver is not the flavour of the day.

I hear the charlie slasher is great but never seen one here in Japan or a never summer.


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## yojik (Sep 14, 2011)

Thanks everyone for the tips/suggestions...I've been itching to buy the Jones Hovercraft after demoing one last season and think that if I don't do well today that I'll be picking one up.

I've never had a pow specific board and from what I gather from you all, with my height/weight I should think about that first and foremost on the deep days.

I see a wind advisory is in effect and that the chairs will likely be on hold for early morning ops but that won't deter us from coming up.

I'll be up there with my buddy, so if you see a big dude with orange pants and a blue jacket + sandbox helmet, say hi and we can get some laps in.

I'll post my thoughts about the stance + the board in the deep stuff when I return today as a follow up.

Thanks a million!!!


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## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

yojik check your pm...I'll likely be up there today.


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## dreampow (Sep 26, 2011)

you are lucky, I still have 1 month to wait.


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## digdisha (Nov 17, 2011)

dreampow said:


> you are lucky, I still have 1 month to wait.


Ahh but when the powder arrives in Japan it is deep and dry - yes? 

I have a new setup and I'm looking forward to riding Japan in January

I'm 6'5 215 pounds and went with a Never Summer Raptor X 169. Not sure what my stance should be on this board yet but I'm thinking about 22" the board is set back by design I think so not sure if I should set the bindings back more or not.

FWIW I agree that at your weight you need a longer board but that's just me - my last board was a 173


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## dreampow (Sep 26, 2011)

digdisha said:


> Ahh but when the powder arrives in Japan it is deep and dry - yes?
> 
> I have a new setup and I'm looking forward to riding Japan in January
> 
> ...


I am no expert in weight and boards but its always a trade off between float and playfulness. I like to stay as small as I can to be able to spin or hand plant or block stall easier.

I weigh 170~175 and 161 has always been enough for me, I usually ride 158 and take it through some deepish pow but will step up to 161 when it gets very deep or heavy.

Also the better you get the less you need a long board. I know guys who are close to 200 and ride a 158 or 161 like me (in med deep pow).

At 215 you will be fine on a 169 wide IMO, nothing could sink that thing. I would say at 6'5 22 is a little narrow. I am 6ft and ride a 22 stance. Try a 23 at least but 22 could be fine. Try both and see which feels best.

As for setback I ride with no setback when I can (I like to spin) and when the pow starts to build up I slowly move the bindings back. I will do a short run as a test and go into the pow off the side of the piste to check how heavy it is, if its super fluffy and not too deep I stay centered. If its sticky or too deep I will adjust accordingly. On super deep days I go all the way back but I am usually centered or 1 notch back. 

The pow here is usually light but on occasion it gets heavy, either way you should be sweet on your raptor.

where are you headed?

http://www.snowboardingforum.com/trip-reports/41724-compilation-video-trips-nozawa-nagano-japan.html

click the link to see a short vid of me in Nozawa onsen (Nagano) you can see what the pow is like, but bear in mind we don't take any shots on the best days, not a moment to waste.

when it is the lightest fluffy pow it is truly amazing, feels like floating on air.


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## digdisha (Nov 17, 2011)

dreampow said:


> where are you headed?


2 Weeks in Niseko and another week still to be confirmed but probably other areas on the North Island.

Cheers for the advice. I'll go 23" to start with and keep it centred. :thumbsup:


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## yojik (Sep 14, 2011)

*Update*

Update

We went to Stevens instead of Baker due to schedules and road conditions.

Attempted to ride in the backseat with the Custom X and I have to say it was one of the worst experiences I've ever had on a snowboard in a decade. No power, no speed, lack of control. Awful. I was really depressed and lacking any confidence, especially in the board.

After a single run I moved it back to my normal stance (+2in in the front, ref in the back) and it was like night and day. Was able to ride like I am accustomed to and rip it all over the place.

I didn't have any trouble negotiating the powder (waist deep at times) with the stance + board despite the aggressive camber profile.

Super stoked for next time.


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## dreampow (Sep 26, 2011)

Sweet if its not broke don't fix it.:thumbsup::thumbsup:

I prefer to use minimal setback (centered) when I can and will go further back if needed.

If you can float through without a setback fine. Just if you are going into super deep sticky pow for a long time you have to work more with no setback. There is less control with more setback, but you do get used to it. Just depends on the conditions, I have been in pow where without a full setback you would just get stuck and believe me that sucks more than having less control. Saps all your strength trying to get back to somewhere you can stand and get going again. 

Like I said in a previous post I will start centered and check the conditions of the pow with a short run not going in far from the piste. Then if needed I will set back a little and do another run. Keep going until I get the right position for the conditions and the board I am on.


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## yojik (Sep 14, 2011)

dreampow said:


> Sweet if its not broke don't fix it.:thumbsup::thumbsup:
> 
> I prefer to use minimal setback (centered) when I can and will go further back if needed.
> 
> ...


That's a great suggestion...What increments do you use when you start moving things back?


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## dreampow (Sep 26, 2011)

yojik said:


> That's a great suggestion...What increments do you use when you start moving things back?


Since I have been riding the pow here in Japan for a few years I usually know where I want my bindings after a short run. When I had less experience I would just move both bindings back one notch at a time so as to keep my 22 inch stance whilst going a little further back each time.

If you have a channel set up (burton try 1 inch or 1 and a half inch increments (more of less).


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## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

yojik said:


> Update
> 
> No power, no speed, lack of control. Awful. I was really depressed and lacking any confidence, especially in the board.
> 
> ...


That makes sense, guess we were thinking riding big pow in a more soul surfer manner with more drawn out carves. But ya having an aggressive camber board, its natural thing is to want to hotrod around on it. And with a pow board you let it more come to you than getting after it...hopefully that makes sense. Yesterday riding the slasher in poor heavy wet conditions (not ideal conditions for the pow board and the conditions were better for my aggressive cambered board) I wanted to be on the nose alot for control and the thing just wanted to take off on long soulful carves and thus adjusted the bindings a couple of times for a wider stance and more on the nose to get more control.

I guess when I think about riding pow its more about float, keeping enough speed to plane and turn the board and not so much about power and control.


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