# Got stuck in a tree well. (White Pass)



## schmitty34

Dang, glad you didn't go in head first. 

Tree wells freak me out. I love riding powder and like riding trees. One fall in the wrong spot and you can be buried. 

It's important to ride with someone and keep and eye on each other, but it can be hard when you get your powder stoke on and you start tearing down the hill.


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## ShredLife

well, you did the right thing - the key is generally to get your feet out of your bindings and then just wallow your way out. 

everyone keep in mind that in an avalanche burial you typically have about 15 minutes of air, and that snow is compacted like concrete. in a treewell, even headfirst - you have time. stay calm and get out of your bindings. 

if you said the words "last run" then that is almost surely why this happened. don't even say it to yourself in your mind - tell yourself "well self, lets take a run and we'll see how we feel at the bottom". 

NEVER say last run.


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## wrathfuldeity

I've started rigging my bindings with a cord for quick release pull in cases of avy and wells...its damm hard to get released at times; and generally easier to pop out of at the chair. Glad ur ok. Last Sat. I was boarding and trying to get a little pow stash and got a little too close to a tree well and at the last second I kind of ollied and dove around the well...otherwise would have gone right in to one.


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## ARSENALFAN

wrathfuldeity said:


> I've started rigging my bindings with a cord for quick release pull in cases of avy and wells...its damm hard to get released at times; and generally easier to pop out of at the chair. Glad ur ok. Last Sat. I was boarding and trying to get a little pow stash and got a little too close to a tree well and at the last second I kind of ollied and dove around the well...otherwise would have gone right in to one.


I would like to see a photo of this rig your talking about. Thanks in advance.


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## Chris

Snowolf said:


> Star Wars Trees at White Pass is a good place to find wells. Last year, NWBoarder and I were riding Star Wars and he was only 4-6 inches to the right of my path and he went feet first (thankfully) into a deep well that was well over his head and he`s 6 foot. One minute, he`s right on my tail and the next he has vanished like the Star Trek transporter got him. I stopped not 50 feet from him and could not see any sign of him and had to find him be voice. Took us damn near a half hour of digging from the downhill side to get him out. Had this been a head first entry, it could have been very serious.
> 
> It may not be as fun or exciting, but the only safe way to ride tight trees when there is danger of tree wells is to leap frog your way through them. One guy stops, and maintains constant visual contact on the rider as he rides down from above and passes below. He then stops, and the spotter gets his turn. If you are all riding together, if the guy behind goes in, you will be easliy 50 yards down the mountain or more before you have a clue the guy is missing. If its a head first entry, good luck ever finding the guy!
> 
> Its not enough to just ride with a buddy when tree well danger is significant, you have to be in constant visual contact. We got lucky that day; lesson learned!


Star war trees haha what are those? Yea other than being stuck in a tree well it was a good day. The snow was a light powder. I probably wouldn't have gone through the trees but there was a ton of unridden powder and if you go up to Paradise basin around lunch time(10:30- 12) you can get tons of runs in. I usually ride down to that slow chairlift(one before the lift that goes to the top of paradise basin) bring up a thermos of homemade turkey chili, or some PB&Js' and have lunch there. When all the people come back from lunch just depending on the crowd either stay there or go to the main mountain.


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## NWBoarder

The tree wells out here in the PNW are no joke. I was super fortunate that Snowolf stopped and could hear me, and that I went in feet first. The thing is, there was NO way to know that the snow was going to give out and drop into a well. The trees we were in were tight, but the snow seemed good. Then all of sudden, it just dropped out from under me and I was shoulder deep in a well. After trying to dig myself out, I ended up literaly being in over my head. Thankfully Snowolf was there to help me dig out. I would have spent a very long and cold night out there otherwise, as it was closing time and I was STUCK. 

Snowolf hit it on the money with the leapfrogging. While it's fun to blast through with your buddies, if deep snow and tree wells are a major concern (which they should be right now in the PNW), then one at a time while keeping an eye on your buddy is the best way to ride. And Chris, if you can't find the Star Wars trees on your own, then you better just ride White Pass some more until you do.


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## Chris

NWBoarder said:


> The tree wells out here in the PNW are no joke. I was super fortunate that Snowolf stopped and could hear me, and that I went in feet first. The thing is, there was NO way to know that the snow was going to give out and drop into a well. The trees we were in were tight, but the snow seemed good. Then all of sudden, it just dropped out from under me and I was shoulder deep in a well. After trying to dig myself out, I ended up literaly being in over my head. Thankfully Snowolf was there to help me dig out. I would have spent a very long and cold night out there otherwise, as it was closing time and I was STUCK.
> 
> Snowolf hit it on the money with the leapfrogging. While it's fun to blast through with your buddies, if deep snow and tree wells are a major concern (which they should be right now in the PNW), then one at a time while keeping an eye on your buddy is the best way to ride. And Chris, if you can't find the Star Wars trees on your own, then you better just ride White Pass some more until you do.


After riding white pass for 9 years or so I have came to the conclusion that people have different names for every run. I believe you are talking about what I call disneyland ( the path that goes off the cat walk from the back side where the 2 chair is.)
Or your talking about that run that ends up on the catwalk that is from the marked run "Cascade"


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## Zenhugh

Are there any signs to look for that trees may have wells? I do a fair bit of riding through trees and plenty of times alone but never really been aware of the dangers of tree wells. In Australia it isn't something discussed as rarely get such deep amounts of snow and most alpine trees a small in oz. Siberia is a different story though so would love to get more info on this topic.


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## Chris

Zenhugh said:


> Are there any signs to look for that trees may have wells? I do a fair bit of riding through trees and plenty of times alone but never really been aware of the dangers of tree wells. In Australia it isn't something discussed as rarely get such deep amounts of snow and most alpine trees a small in oz. Siberia is a different story though so would love to get more info on this topic.


Come over to the PNW we'll show you some wells. I can't really imagine riding any other place besides the PNW. I don't know about where you ride but here you have to be cautious when riding through trees pretty much all of them have some sort of hole around them because only the top of the trees stick out and the snow is packed lightly which make it easy to fall through.


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## Chris

Snowolf said:


> Star Wars is off of the west side of the main hill. When you get off of big white, you take the ridge run under the old lift and dive off to riders left. As you ride down this path, there is an old wooden sign that says Star Wars. That entire side of the mountain is epic timber all the way down to the lower cat track.


Oh okay I know where that is, I'll have to ride that next time


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## cjcameron11

Zenhugh said:


> Are there any signs to look for that trees may have wells? I do a fair bit of riding through trees and plenty of times alone but never really been aware of the dangers of tree wells. In Australia it isn't something discussed as rarely get such deep amounts of snow and most alpine trees a small in oz. Siberia is a different story though so would love to get more info on this topic.


As Snowolf touched on you need specific type of trees to form tree wells. In Aus we don't get tree wells at all. Mainly due to the reason we don't get the volume of snow as they do in the PNW BUT even if we did, tree wells wouldn't from with our alpine gum trees. They are the complete wrong shape and they don't spread out at the bottom and taper at the top.


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## chomps1211

ShredLife said:


> ...if you said the words "last run" then that is almost surely why this happened. don't even say it to yourself in your mind - tell yourself "well self, lets take a run and we'll see how we feel at the bottom".
> 
> NEVER say last run.


^^^^*THIS*^^^^
...this is not a myth or superstition!! I'm still a NooB & 1st two times on a board, I said that out loud to myself,.. those 2 "last runs" resulted in my worst, most painful injuries since learnig. (so far!!) And I didn't even know about this particular snowboarding jinx yet! If I even catch myself just _thinking_ it now, I make sure a get a random # of runs in afterward!

I'm a believer!!

Very Glad u made it out to tell us about it!! Just the thought of being buried in snow like that makes all the hair on my sack stand straight up!!!! :laugh: (...looks like a mutant hedgehog!!) :laugh: :blink:

Hope ur knees recover ok, n be careful out there!

{edit}
...Damn, Mutant Hedgehog?? TMI wasn't it? I gotta stop doin' that!!! :laugh: :dunno:


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## t21

glad your ok. hope your knees heals soon and check out that Star Wars run. be sure bring a buddy with you though:thumbsup:


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## Zenhugh

cjcameron11 said:


> As Snowolf touched on you need specific type of trees to form tree wells. In Aus we don't get tree wells at all. Mainly due to the reason we don't get the volume of snow as they do in the PNW BUT even if we did, tree wells wouldn't from with our alpine gum trees. They are the complete wrong shape and they don't spread out at the bottom and taper at the top.


Thanks mate and thanks for the link and pic Snowolf..I'll study up on this and ask the guides when I go to Priiskovy if they have issues with tree wells.

Not sure if I can post links but this is a site for free ride tours in a mountain near where I am living in Siberia. They have snowcats to take you to top of the mountain and is an amazing adventure although it's quite remote and a hell of a long way from the states...Приисковый: фрирайд и сноукэтскиинг в Сибири
If you type in priiskovy in google there's some good you tube clips as well


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## Zenhugh

PS..if you use google chrome it will translate russian to english for you


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## Chris

t21 said:


> glad your ok. hope your knees heals soon and check out that Star Wars run. be sure bring a buddy with you though:thumbsup:


Thank you, My right knee was fucked up before this happened so I'm not sure how long my season will last.


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## AAA

Dang, be careful around them! I believe the statistics show there is only a 10% survival rate if you go head first into one.


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## ShredLife

AAA said:


> Dang, be careful around them! I believe the statistics show there is only a 10% survival rate if you go head first into one.


that sounds like 99% bullshit.


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## wrathfuldeity

ARSENALFAN said:


> I would like to see a photo of this rig your talking about. Thanks in advance.


It's an easy diy... a little piece of stiff cord between the binding ratchets, looped and tied off with a couple of zip ties at each end. Some of ratchets require drilling a hole in the tab of the ratchet. It works well....just pull and both release...fast and easy...and it also makes it easier to get strapped in. Volie light rail bindings apparently come this way and its where I got the idea. Having been in a treewell, in deep poo and now with a split; there are definite reasons to have something rigged to get out of bindings fast and easier.


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## AAA

ShredLife said:


> that sounds like 99% bullshit.


Not from what I understand, though the odds "are" significantly better if you go in somewhat upright.


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## ARSENALFAN

wrathfuldeity said:


> It's an easy diy... a little piece of stiff cord between the binding ratchets, looped and tied off with a couple of zip ties at each end. Some of ratchets require drilling a hole in the tab of the ratchet. It works well....just pull and both release...fast and easy...and it also makes it easier to get strapped in. Volie light rail bindings apparently come this way and its where I got the idea. Having been in a treewell, in deep poo and now with a split; there are definite reasons to have something rigged to get out of bindings fast and easier.


Good job. Thanks for taking a pic!


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## blunted_nose

I went head first into 3 wells already. I should of been dead if it wasn't for my friends. But it wasn't just out of blue, i tried a back flip of a cat track and i couldn't stop so i plowed to the closes tree. Head first you really cant do shit. cant see, cant hear, really hard to move and the more you move the deeper you sink. Real shit tree wells are.


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## Chris

This is what's left of the tree well, taken today.


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## blunted_nose

Thats not even bad. I was in a hole that i couldn't see the bottom. A legit hole beside the tree.


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## ARSENALFAN

blunted_nose said:


> Thats not even bad. I was in a hole that i couldn't see the bottom. A legit hole beside the tree.


Oh that is a legit hole my friend. Just a bad camera angle.


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## grafta

blunted_nose said:


> Thats not even bad. I was in a hole that i couldn't see the bottom. A legit hole beside the tree.





ARSENALFAN said:


> Oh that is a legit hole my friend. Just a bad camera angle.


You can't really say that wasn't a 'legit' tree well because it doesn't 'look' big. That's the problem with tree wells, you can't really see them. You can only have the knowledge to understand how they work, and where they might be so you can avoid them :thumbsup:

This is a pic right after digging my buddy out. He went in head first, his board was level with the snow and luckily I saw him go in.

Doesn't look all that spectacular either!


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## ARSENALFAN

Did you have a shovel?


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## grafta

ARSENALFAN said:


> Did you have a shovel?


Nope :thumbsdown:


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## ARSENALFAN

grafta said:


> Nope :thumbsdown:


Well that's some good digging then! Sounds like your friend made it out safe and sound. Glad to hear.


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## mr_____awesome

Thats why i ride with a shovel just in case i have to dig someone out, or myself.


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## mr_____awesome

Tree Well Rescue, Inverted Entrapment - Teamwork in British Columbia's South Chilcotin Mountains - YouTube! A video i found about a head first in a tree well


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## nomembername

Very uninformed question here, but are tree wells common in all glades? OR is it predominantly in PNW? I live on the east coast and only heard of tree wells on this board. Is this something you might encounter in VT?


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## grafta

nomembername said:


> Very uninformed question here, but are tree wells common in all glades? OR is it predominantly in PNW? I live on the east coast and only heard of tree wells on this board. Is this something you might encounter in VT?


http://www.snowboardingforum.com/snowboarding-general-chat/42875-safety-topic-tree-wells.html

Stickied thread about this topic ^


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