# Question about liners and circulation



## DrBigbin (Dec 2, 2012)

So I just bought a new pair of 2013 Burton Hail boots and I'm having problems with the liners. I have a weird shaped foot so it's not unusual for me to have to spend several days braking in a pair of shoes, but these boots are routinely making my toes numb. I've narrowed it down to a blood flow issue due to the liners. I'm not feeling any pressure points or anything like that, the problem is with the top of the liners. 

Even with the inner and outer laces completely undone and only the liner velcro'd on, my toes a will still go numb. 


I've already read the FAQ thread but it doesn't address my issue. 

Is there a way to modify the liner to better accommodate my calves?
I'd prefer not to have to buy a custom liner (poor grad student) so any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.


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## kaborkian (Feb 1, 2010)

Return them. Now. Today. Don't wait. They don't fit.

If your feet are going numb while sitting in the recliner, you need different boots.


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## M.C._Dub (Jan 18, 2013)

kaborkian said:


> Return them. Now. Today. Don't wait. They don't fit.
> 
> If your feet are going numb while sitting in the recliner, you need different boots.


^This. Don't mess around with boots


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## Mystery2many (Aug 14, 2013)

Pm burtonavenger. Feet/boots are his thing!


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## DrBigbin (Dec 2, 2012)

Damn I was hoping for it to be possibles to fix, I got these for a great deal. 

I pm'd burtonavenger, hopefully he has some good news for me.


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## kaborkian (Feb 1, 2010)

How specifically do they fit? Where are they tight or loose? Where are the pressure points? Toes touching end, not touching squished? What size street shoes vs size of boots?


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## DrBigbin (Dec 2, 2012)

The fit feels great. No pressure points, no heal lift (when I have my orthotics in), perfect width in the forefoot and heel. I usually wear an 11 to accommodate the width of my foot, so I spoke with Burton CS on the phone prior to purchasing and they said to go with a 10.5. The length feels perfect.

The past couple of seasons I've been using a pair of Forum Destroyer boots I got off Craigslist. Complete crap, toes were cold everyday, pressure points for days, so I'm used to the feeling.


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## kaborkian (Feb 1, 2010)

Burton boots are a little too narrow across my forefoot (knuckles?) and fit my heel loose. If I size up to make the forefoot right, they are too long and too large in the heel area.

K2 fits me better. Wider in the forefoot area, more volume around the arch, and much tighter on my heel.

My point is, try on more boots. 

K2 T1 Snowboard Boots 2013 | evo outlet

May be worn ordering these to try if you don't have a local shop. evo charges $7 shipping for returns, can't hardly get to a store for that much in gas...


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## slyder (Jan 18, 2010)

DrBigbin said:


> I usually wear an 11 to accommodate the width of my foot, so I spoke with Burton CS on the phone prior to purchasing and they said to go with a 10.5. The length feels perfect.


I also have a wide foot and have ruled out any Burton boot as the toe box on so many models is just to narrow for me. 
As kaborkian said Burtons are narrow, I also have had good luck with K2's and Vans giving me the room I need in the toebox area. Not sure if they can stretch out the toe box to help you out. 
Hopefully BA will chime in on this


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## DrBigbin (Dec 2, 2012)

So when trying on boots in the shop, should there be no pain at all right from the get-go? I've never had a shoe that didn't require a break-in period, should I expect differently from some boots? 

Also, I was considering these along with the Burton Hails, but choose the Hails dues to the traditional lacing what do you guys think of these?

Salomon F3.0 Snowboard Boots 2013 | evo outlet


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## bseracka (Nov 14, 2011)

DrBigbin said:


> So when trying on boots in the shop, should there be no pain at all right from the get-go? I've never had a shoe that didn't require a break-in period, should I expect differently from some boots?
> 
> Also, I was considering these along with the Burton Hails, but choose the Hails dues to the traditional lacing what do you guys think of these?
> 
> Salomon F3.0 Snowboard Boots 2013 | evo outlet


Great boots if they fit, but they're pretty narrow


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## Mystery2many (Aug 14, 2013)

My last three pairs of boots fit perfect right out the box and my first 3 caused pain. The first three pair of boots taught me that name brand and price doesn't mean shit. So from that point on I was extra picky about what I bought. It was a tough and expensive lesson but valuable at the same time. Try on every boot you can till you find that sweet spot. You also might need a special insole.


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## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

DrBigbin said:


> The fit feels great. No pressure points, no heal lift (when I have my orthotics in), .


Its unclear...when you get numbness...are your orthotics in? And when trying boots...take them with you, take out the footbeds and put your orthotics in. I'd imagine that with orthotics in, that you will be able to keep the foot area looser and thus have better circulation while having a good fit.

Break-in...my 32 focus boas are semi-painful for the first 6 days or so...the they feel like slippers.


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## chomps1211 (Mar 30, 2011)

I have a wide foot. I also have a very high instep. As a result, anything that I lace up too snug across the top of my foot causes me to have a lot of numbness and pain. That goes for the boots as well as the bindings. I went thru 3-4 pairs of boots, _and_ had to get some serendipitous advice on a chair lift about how tight I was getting my bindings before I found a good fit.

If this was occurring while riding, I would suggest that maybe you were lacing the boot/liner too tight and/or ratcheting the bindings down too much. But as this seems to be happening to you with the boots on and unlaced,...? :dunno:

As has been mentioned, every person/foot is different and even describing the same issues with the same size feet does not mean the fix will be the same.

What I can tell you is that for me, 32 boots have been a good fit for my wide foot. I have two pair of the ST Boa's, and they are the most comfortable fit I have tried so far. Even so, Until I got a custom molded footbed, I still had a few issues with them. (....you mentioned custom orthotics so that may be all you need, but can't say for sure.)

Whatever else BA tells you if/when he responds? I have no doubt he will suggest trying to find a good, Professional boot fitter! Someone with the experience and skill, (....as well as patience.) to take all the time needed to sort out the trouble! The man (BA) is _absolutely_ serious about his boot advice! For good reason!

Good luck! Hope you get your issues solved soon. Once you do, it makes a world of difference in comfort and enjoyability in your time on the slopes!


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## kaborkian (Feb 1, 2010)

chomps1211 said:


> I have a wide foot. I also have a very high instep. As a result, anything that I lace up too snug across the top of my foot causes me to have a lot of numbness and pain. That goes for the boots as well as the bindings. I went thru 3-4 pairs of boots, _and_ had to get some serendipitous advice on a chair lift about how tight I was getting my bindings before I found a good fit.
> 
> If this was occurring while riding, I would suggest that maybe you were lacing the boot/liner too tight and/or ratcheting the bindings down too much. But as this seems to be happening to you with the boots on and unlaced,...? :dunno:
> 
> ...


High arch is me also! Without custom (or at least aftermarket) insoles, every pair of boots will hurt after a while because the arch of my foot is not touching and gets crushed down.


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## BurtonAvenger (Aug 14, 2007)

I like how the peanut gallery that doesn't know their ass from a hole in the grounds response is "THEY DON'T FIT". Shut the fuck up. They fit fine it's not the boots or the liners. It's because they aren't broken in. By your idiots logic everyone EVERYWHERE that has a properly fitting boot should return them. 

Make sure your orthodics are in. If they are and when you're doing the boot up it's still going numb then get your liner heat molded. There's a slight pressure point probably on the tongue sitting on a vein/nerve that just needs to be broken in. The heat molding will take care of this.

Now if you're wearing them without your orthodics and it's doing this throw out the stock insole put yours in and bam more than likely gone. 

Check your socks, people would be surprised how 80% of the time this is the actual issue. 

The only other issue it can be and this is a rarity is a seam issue on the liner. There's a little flap on the seam that sometimes and by that I mean rarely folds over between the tongue and side of the liner. When the liner is done up this creates a point that hits a vein/nerve/fat area and cuts off circulation. 

99% of all boot related issues can be rectified with minor trial and error. 

Now unless you have poor circulation, Raynauds Syndrome, or some other debilitating disease/disorder no one on here knows about, this will rectify it. 

You would be surprised what a little piece of cardboard and some duct tape will fix.


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## kaborkian (Feb 1, 2010)

BurtonAvenger said:


> I like how the peanut gallery that doesn't know their ass from a hole in the grounds response is "THEY DON'T FIT". Shut the fuck up. They fit fine it's not the boots or the liners. It's because they aren't broken in. By your idiots logic everyone EVERYWHERE that has a properly fitting boot should return them.
> 
> Make sure your orthodics are in. If they are and when you're doing the boot up it's still going numb then get your liner heat molded. There's a slight pressure point probably on the tongue sitting on a vein/nerve that just needs to be broken in. The heat molding will take care of this.
> 
> ...


I understand your point, but my experience has been different. If my feet are going numb with nothing tightened, which is what he described, then I'm not keeping those boots. Have been to fitters, have modified with tape, knife, orthotics, adding foam, still had feet that hurt.

Others may have different experiences, but I wasn't throwing out random comments with none of my own...


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## freshy (Nov 18, 2009)

I'd also like to point out I had some top end 32 boots that just didn't ever stop hurting. After a few weeks of intense pain and cutting my days short I finally sold them. I tried riding loose liner, loose boot and modifying the liner but nothing helped, they did fit size wise but the act of snowboarding made them hurt me. Numb toes and burning arches after the first run is not normal.
I've had boots in the past that did not ever cause discomfort even during the break in period. My current DC's have one hot spot on the front of the ankle joint, but it's not so bad I need stop riding and take them off.

I dunno, I don't have enough days in the season these days to use boots that will mess those days up. There are definitely boots out there that don't have to cause pain.


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## DrBigbin (Dec 2, 2012)

Thanks for all the advice! This is what I've done and it seems to be working:

Took out stock insoles, put in Shredsoles. 

Got Smartwool snowboard socks. 

Tightened the shit outta these bad boys and wore em around the house for as long as I could, over and over again. 

They feel better every day. After a day of riding I'm sure they'll be perfect.


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## ARSENALFAN (Apr 16, 2012)

DrBigbin said:


> So I just bought a new pair of 2013 Burton Hail boots and I'm having problems with the liners. I have a weird shaped foot so it's not unusual for me to have to spend several days braking in a pair of shoes, but these boots are routinely making my toes numb. I've narrowed it down to a blood flow issue due to the liners. I'm not feeling any pressure points or anything like that, the problem is with the top of the liners.
> 
> Even with the inner and outer laces completely undone and only the liner velcro'd on, my toes a will still go numb.
> 
> ...



OMG. There is nothing wrong with your feet. Its those dang Burton Hails. I absolutely hated mine and got rid of them after a few days on the hill. I don't think there is anything you can do to avoid that pressure on the top of the foot and the numb toes. If you find a solution - my bad!

I am hopeful BA's advice works. I did not have the Burtons heat molded.

I chucked mine and bought a pair of K2 UFO boa boots which are the most comfortable boot ever. I had these heat molded.

Memories of my Burton Hails make me go into a cold sweat.


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## DrBigbin (Dec 2, 2012)

Update:

I've been wearing the Hails around the house and they feel perfect now. I replaced the stock insole, and wore them throughout the day with my snowboard socks. Everyday they feel better and last night I wore them around for over an hour with zero pain/numbness. :yahoo:

It's amazing what proper arch support will do for you.


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