# Frustrated Amputee



## Argo (Feb 25, 2010)

Boot fitting, even with the best fitters, is going to be trial and error with you. 

I would suggest going to a big resort that has a larger and well established program for "special needs" people. They have people that specialize in para/sit ski, amputees, blind and whatever other number of special needs people may have. Vail has a pretty decent one but I'm sure others do too.


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## essie52 (Mar 19, 2014)

Argo said:


> Boot fitting, even with the best fitters, is going to be trial and error with you.
> 
> I would suggest going to a big resort that has a larger and well established program for "special needs" people. They have people that specialize in para/sit ski, amputees, blind and whatever other number of special needs people may have. Vail has a pretty decent one but I'm sure others do too.


Thanks.
I have used some of the adaptive programs in New Hampshire and Maine. They are great! What I have noticed is there is a ton of knowledge on adaptive skiing but not so much for snowboarders. Thank you for all your help ARGO. You have always offered informed suggestions to my posts and I have taken them to heart. 
Best,
E


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## Argo (Feb 25, 2010)

Adaptive programs, thats the term i was looking for. 

Another suggestion is looking up USASA adaptive races. They will have a big congregation of experienced boarders at their races. I have been to them and they are all extremely friendly and gelpful, even the olympic level riders....


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## essie52 (Mar 19, 2014)

So, this is what is frustrating.... Any thoughts (without video I know this is close to impossible; just looking for suggestions)?

I ride goofy with my amp side in the back. My toe side is strong and controlled however, when I go to heel side my back leg tends to swing all the way around making me perpendicular to the hill. I have tried weighting my front leg more and focusing on keeping my shoulder from moving too much toward the back. It does not seem to change anything. 

E


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## f00bar (Mar 6, 2014)

I'm gonna say that the likelihood of you getting bad advice from here from people applying what they think is the right thing for your situation is as likely as good advice.

I really think you need to get in contact with some sort of regional/national adaptive snowboard organization.

Not discouraging your asking, just saying in general there may not be much experience in this area.


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## jae (Nov 27, 2015)

just curious, what kind of board are you riding?


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## f00bar (Mar 6, 2014)

Have you been in contact with these guys?

https://www.vermontadaptive.org/snow-sports/


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## essie52 (Mar 19, 2014)

jae said:


> just curious, what kind of board are you riding?


Rocker camber combo (High Society Allure).


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## essie52 (Mar 19, 2014)

f00bar said:


> Have you been in contact with these guys?
> 
> https://www.vermontadaptive.org/snow-sports/


I have not but I'll look into them now. 
Thanks,
E


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## MMSlasher (Mar 18, 2016)

f00bar said:


> I'm gonna say that the likelihood of you getting bad advice from here from people applying what they think is the right thing for your situation is as likely as good advice.
> 
> I really think you need to get in contact with some sort of regional/national adaptive snowboard organization.
> 
> Not discouraging your asking, just saying in general there may not be much experience in this area.


f00bar is probably right, but I'm going to just throw this out there anyways. Have your tried setting your back foot to a positive angle? Or maybe even at zero. I could see it being easier to control a board when your prosthesis foot is straight, perpendicularly to the boot at 0 degrees. Kind of how it is when you walk, instead of -15 degrees and the toes aren't under your weight. And if you go a positive degree, like people who hard boot carve, it may overall be easier to cruise down the mountain with shifting your weight and control through your front leg.

I hope that makes sense. And who knows, I could be completely off, but just wanted to put that idea out there. I truly hope you find what helps you get out there and shred! Take care and keep us up to date. 

P.S. Is there a way for a prosthetist to make a foot or mold for a particular snowboard boot so that it fills up the entire space or is that what you are using now?


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## essie52 (Mar 19, 2014)

MMSlasher said:


> f00bar is probably right, but I'm going to just throw this out there anyways. Have your tried setting your back foot to a positive angle? Or maybe even at zero. I could see it being easier to control a board when your prosthesis foot is straight, perpendicularly to the boot at 0 degrees. Kind of how it is when you walk, instead of -15 degrees and the toes aren't under your weight. And if you go a positive degree, like people who hard boot carve, it may overall be easier to cruise down the mountain with shifting your weight and control through your front leg.
> 
> I hope that makes sense. And who knows, I could be completely off, but just wanted to put that idea out there. I truly hope you find what helps you get out there and shred! Take care and keep us up to date.
> 
> P.S. Is there a way for a prosthetist to make a foot or mold for a particular snowboard boot so that it fills up the entire space or is that what you are using now?


I was actually considering changing the angle from -6 to zero with the same thought process. I'm going to try less heel lift first and see what happens but back binding angle is next (only want to change one variable at a time). I have a mold built to cover the titanium rod to fill the cuff of the boot. The foot part is shaped like a foot (not mine but somebody's :wink. I'm not sure how much wiggle room there is in that boot. An extra couple layers of socks might help. Thanks for the thought!
Best, 
E


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## jae (Nov 27, 2015)

essie52 said:


> So, this is what is frustrating.... Any thoughts (without video I know this is close to impossible; just looking for suggestions)?
> 
> I ride goofy with my amp side in the back. My toe side is strong and controlled however, when I go to heel side my back leg tends to swing all the way around making me perpendicular to the hill. I have tried weighting my front leg more and focusing on keeping my shoulder from moving too much toward the back. It does not seem to change anything.
> 
> E


without a video I'm assuming you're not bending your knees enough, and are not squatting enough. also try to put more emphasis on your front side cut and not lean back as much.
http://www.snowboardingforum.com/ti...ng/205385-how-not-jackhammer-carved-turn.html this thread might help.


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## timmytard (Mar 19, 2009)

essie52 said:


> I was actually considering changing the angle from -6 to zero with the same thought process. I'm going to try less heel lift first and see what happens but back binding angle is next (only want to change one variable at a time). I have a mold built to cover the titanium rod to fill the cuff of the boot. The foot part is shaped like a foot (not mine but somebody's :wink. I'm not sure how much wiggle room there is in that boot. An extra couple layers of socks might help. Thanks for the thought!
> Best,
> E


Sup hessay lol.
Well that sucks

I started a facebook group for local riders and one of the dudes in there volunteers in the Vancouver adaptive thingy.

I think there's quite a few people in it.
Join my group & pick his brain for any info, tips, connections to others.

Someone's gotta know something?


What you said has me wondering...
Maybe you don't have enough lift in the back?
Insert joke here. Haha

I think hard boot guys put cant on their rear binding? Because of the forward angle of the rear binding?

So maybe if they have to do it?
You might not have enough?

If they need it, what if the lift you already have in it, has only put you to the point where you would have the same as a normal boot , now you need to add the cant?

You are what I'm getting at? Hopefully, I don't think I'm wording it right
Hmm, like the amount you have now , has only put your boot at the angle of cant, they they start at without any cant?

In my head I'm picturing the washyness caused by not enough force being driven into/into the hillside edge.

Is it just a shim that you are using to adjust the angle?
Are you able to adjust it? Add or take away shims?
Double them up?

Guess it's a trial and error thing ?

Add more try.
Add more try again?
Time consuming & shirty, but eventually you should have some answers?

Don't worry chicky poo, we'll get ya sorted.
Just hang in there.


TT


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## timmytard (Mar 19, 2009)

I'm gonna run it by me people, see what they have to say.
They're the heart of snowboarding, I think there's answers in there.


TT


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## timmytard (Mar 19, 2009)

Alright looking good.

In under 1 min of posting.
I got this pm.


Hey Bud! Saw your post.. have the girl who lost her leg reach out to a good friend of mine - Michelle Salt. Michelle lost her right lower leg in a motorcycle accident a few years back. She's now a member of the Canadian Paralympic Team for Snowboard Cross, and would definitely be open to talking to her...! 

Much love,

Matty

Hugs and kisses Chicky poo.
I'm sure more is on its way.


TT


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## timmytard (Mar 19, 2009)

Adaptive Action Sports at Copper Mountain is where she'll find answers. They have a great little workshop setup in their office in their office there, where they're tinkering with prosthetics and boot/board/binding/cant plate setups all the time. Tell her to ask for Daniel Gale and Amy Purdy. The prosthetics themselves are important, too: a lot of the Paralympic snowboarders are now using the Versa Foot (and Moto Knee) developed by Mike Schultz, an X Games Moto X and SnoCross athlete who is now also on the U.S. Paralympic Snowboard Team.


TT


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## essie52 (Mar 19, 2014)

timmytard said:


> I think hard boot guys put cant on their rear binding? Because of the forward angle of the rear binding?
> 
> So maybe if they have to do it?
> You might not have enough?
> ...


I do not have any L/R cant. All I have is a 3/4"ish heel wedge in my boot. What I tried to do is lean the leg (the carbon fiber part) inward while keeping the foot part neutral. Thus the foot part is always flush with the binding. However, I think what is happening is now when I apply force through the leg it is translating to the outside as opposed to through the foot. It makes me wonder if I should put the leg in neutral position (straight up and down) and place a wedge along the outside of the binding (ie cant). These are the things that make me wonder if I need a boot fitter to assess exactly what is occurring. I also believe that I should be able to adapt regardless of the setup. Always nice to have two diametrically opposed beliefs at the same time. :frown: 

When hubby watches me he says it appears that I do not engage my back leg and all my weight is on the front foot. He also thinks I throw my shoulder back more than needed on heel side; I agree this is likely an issue. He states that my knees remain as bent as I can physically keep them so that's good.

Thanks for the encouragement. I am trying to be positive BUT without notable progress it's becoming a challenge. I had a bad fall a couple of weeks ago; black eye, concussion, ski patrol. What progress I had made seems to have vanished with the fall.

Best, 
E


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## Argo (Feb 25, 2010)

Just remember that "normal" riders also hit plateaus that can take seasons worth of riding to break through. I'm a rather large dude and these types of habits are/were hard for me to break. I have actually only come across one other snowboarder in person that was my size and could ride with a pack of high level riding normals.... 

By normals i mean that Realistically if your not a 160lb 5'10" man with a size 9 foot your having to adapt to equipment built for the wrong person.


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## essie52 (Mar 19, 2014)

timmytard said:


> Alright looking good.
> 
> In under 1 min of posting.
> I got this pm.
> ...


Michelle commented once on one of my posts when I was getting interested in snowboarding. She might be the one that suggested the heel wedges (??).


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## Argo (Feb 25, 2010)

Also, I posted that so you know that everyone's got that thing they do that they want to not do. That thing they cant do that they want to do....

Like for starting out you are falling leaf riding and want to make those s turns.... all the sudden you find the mechanics that makes it click. Then you know and do it from now on.


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## essie52 (Mar 19, 2014)

Argo said:


> Just remember that "normal" riders also hit plateaus that can take seasons worth of riding to break through. I'm a rather large dude and these types of habits are/were hard for me to break. I have actually only come across one other snowboarder in person that was my size and could ride with a pack of high level riding normals....
> 
> By normals i mean that Realistically if your not a 160lb 5'10" man with a size 9 foot your having to adapt to equipment built for the wrong person.


LOL. So true. Hubby and son fall into the "built for" category. Plus they are naturally balanced and graceful. When I ask either of them how they do something on the board they have no idea. They're the ones going down the hill making it look completely effortless. Jerks.


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## essie52 (Mar 19, 2014)

Argo said:


> Also, I posted that so you know that everyone's got that thing they do that they want to not do. That thing they cant do that they want to do....
> 
> Like for starting out you are falling leaf riding and want to make those s turns.... all the sudden you find the mechanics that makes it click. Then you know and do it from now on.


Yeah. I think the fall I had really got into my head and has destroyed the confidence I had and has caused some of the plateau. Hopefully, I can get it back soon.
E


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## essie52 (Mar 19, 2014)

timmytard said:


> Adaptive Action Sports at Copper Mountain is where she'll find answers. They have a great little workshop setup in their office in their office there, where they're tinkering with prosthetics and boot/board/binding/cant plate setups all the time. Tell her to ask for Daniel Gale and Amy Purdy. The prosthetics themselves are important, too: a lot of the Paralympic snowboarders are now using the Versa Foot (and Moto Knee) developed by Mike Schultz, an X Games Moto X and SnoCross athlete who is now also on the U.S. Paralympic Snowboard Team.
> 
> 
> TT


Hubby: "Let's go!"


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## poutanen (Dec 22, 2011)

essie52 said:


> I ride goofy with my amp side in the back. My toe side is strong and controlled however, when I go to heel side my back leg tends to swing all the way around making me perpendicular to the hill. I have tried weighting my front leg more and focusing on keeping my shoulder from moving too much toward the back. It does not seem to change anything.


You working on carving or advanced slider turns? How are you starting the turn (what part of your body do you move to change from a toeside to a heelside turn?


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## timmytard (Mar 19, 2009)

Here's the website for that foot and knee designed by Mike Schultz: http://www.biodaptinc.com/m/index.htm -- there are several other brands used by snowboarders, including one that uses giant rubber bands instead of racing shocks, but this is the one I'm most familiar with from my reporting.


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## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

essie52 said:


> So, this is what is frustrating.... Any thoughts (without video I know this is close to impossible; just looking for suggestions)?
> 
> I ride goofy with my amp side in the back. My toe side is strong and controlled however, when I go to heel side my back leg tends to swing all the way around making me perpendicular to the hill. I have tried weighting my front leg more and focusing on keeping my shoulder from moving too much toward the back. It does not seem to change anything.
> 
> E


Not to discount your challenges...and have nothing to add about the amp/tech leg/foot. But many many folks, myself included hit a plateau of being heelside transverse and getting too perpendicular to the hill. Ime/o there are several reasons why this happens....and thus several solutions.

1 its a comfort and fear thing...wanting to be in control and thus over compensating by being in the backseat too long thus leading to being too transverse. This also relates...that being heelside you can look/see downhill...and everybody likes to see where they are going. What happens is that you take a moment to scan downhill to avoid bumps, gapers and take a deep breath...so that you can drop the nose into the fall line with confidence of knowing where you are going to go.

2 moving into, being and moving out of heelside...can be/is a timing thing...but perhaps comfort/fear is creating a slight latency/lag in the middle of the whole transverse thing.

3 during this time there is often the whole faster and steeper thing...which is intricately tied to the timing thing....that leads to the below...which is basically...somethings just take more experience/riding.

4 experience thing...in all progression...there is the learning phase, the comfort phase, the recognition phase that you want more and thus leading or becoming frustrated phase, then figuring out exactly what might be a hindrance/frustration, leading to researching possible solutions, then instituting and/or practicing the solutions (new learning phase)...rinse and repeat.

Ime...after many years....like 10...I am finally comfortable and able to avoid the exact thing that you are having issues with...of being too transverse and in the backseat on heelside some steep groomers...and still having issues on off piste steep areas. btw...for me it was figuring out that I need to keep my leading shoulder pointed down the fall line, getting used to absorbing the various bumbs, trusting to board and etc....

solutions

1 try to sort out what exactly/specifically is the fear...awareness/recognition is the first step

2 go back to a comfortable slope/run at a comfortable speed but really focus on timing/rythym...and what/where is exactly a lag/latency in the initiation, middle, finish and transition to the next turn.

3 then gradually working up to steeper and faster runs/timing....just putting in the time to get comfortable and confident. 

4 then looking for the next step/phase of progression.


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## essie52 (Mar 19, 2014)

poutanen said:


> You working on carving or advanced slider turns? How are you starting the turn (what part of your body do you move to change from a toeside to a heelside turn?


Slider turns. I try to move my hips and stay in line with the board. I use my head and shoulders as well. However, when I go heelside I end up perpendicular to the mountain and usually flying across the hill faster than I wanted to (this occasionally happens with toeside as well). I sometimes have to come to an almost complete stop before starting my toeside. The only way I can go down the mountain and stay on an edge is to make big "S" turns. I see other people going down on edge without much turning but that has not been my experience. The only way I am able to do that is if I go from toeside to flat to toeside, etc. Being flat scares me. I've been told that as long as my board is parallel to the mountain being flat is not a problem but I have gone over the front of my board twice (no, it's not a butter board and it is well waxed). When I watch people the good boarders always seem to have an edge even when they are going straight down (little tiny "S"s). I want to make those little "S"s without taking up so much real estate.

E


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## poutanen (Dec 22, 2011)

Okay that makes a lot of sense Essie.

Here's my $0.02 (although I certainly like the suggestions above of finding a specialty coach who can physically look at, and tweak your setup and/or technique)...

The large S turns you're doing are great for speed control. We actually have trouble getting new snowboard patrollers to work on completing their turns (i.e. getting the board perpendicular to the fall line).

Am I guessing correctly when I say you're current riding style is similar to this? Fast forward over any talking and just watch his turns.






Where you'd prefer to get to the riding from 1:14 to 1:20 in this video? Also check out the other CASI videos for Level 3 and 4 riding standards, there's some really impressive riding in those vids.






If that's the case, I would suggest going on a slightly more mellow run than you usually ride on, and work on making quicker, shorter turns, bringing the board less across the fall line. Ramp up the speed a little for the more mellow terrain.

As Wrath mentioned, getting from very round S turns, to shorter quicker turns is part of the standard progression of snowboarding. It comes from lots of time getting comfortable with your turns, and gradually making changes to push the envelope. Although a good instructor or coach will be able to identify and hopefully correct any riding/gear issues holding you back, the comfort level really comes from hours and hours on the slopes.

I've been reading your threads through this whole learning process, and my biggest piece of advice is: have fun! It's a sport that can challenge you until the day you die, even if you ride 100+ days a year, and the only way to keep up with it is to make sure your first goal is having fun.

You're an inspiration to people like me!


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## essie52 (Mar 19, 2014)

poutanen said:


> Okay that makes a lot of sense Essie.
> I would suggest going on a slightly more mellow run than you usually ride on, and work on making quicker, shorter turns, bringing the board less across the fall line.


I'm glad it does to somebody! :laugh2:
Yes! Yes! Yes! This is exactly what I am talking about and where I am struggling. Thank you! I need to figure out how to bring the board less across the fall line but still stay on edge. IE make the turn quicker. Hubby is pushing to go to Copper to Action Adaptive (Thanks TT). Something tells me he might want to SB there. :wink: 

E


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## essie52 (Mar 19, 2014)

wrathfuldeity said:


> Not to discount your challenges...and have nothing to add about the amp/tech leg/foot. But many many folks, myself included hit a plateau of being heelside transverse and getting too perpendicular to the hill. Ime/o there are several reasons why this happens....and thus several solutions.
> 
> 1 its a comfort and fear thing...wanting to be in control and thus over compensating by being in the backseat too long thus leading to being too transverse. This also relates...that being heelside you can look/see downhill...and everybody likes to see where they are going. What happens is that you take a moment to scan downhill to avoid bumps, gapers and take a deep breath...so that you can drop the nose into the fall line with confidence of knowing where you are going to go.
> 
> ...


I definitely think it is a comfort/confidence issue. It's gotten worse the last two times I've been out (to the point where I do not want to try new runs). I am staying big time in my comfort zone and even that's going poorly. I likely need to put my big girl undies on and get over it. Thank you for your advice.

E


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## essie52 (Mar 19, 2014)

Another question/comment: 

I am in good shape. I work out daily. My prosthetist is always amazed at the strength of my thigh muscles <insert joke>. But honestly, I cannot make it down a run without stopping and resting at least once. My thighs usually burn to the point where they become rubber. Does this happen to others? 

E


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## DaftDeft (Mar 7, 2016)

I'm in terrible shape and the only thing I do that even remotely counts as exercise is snowboard. I'm otherwise working at a computer or playing video games.

For me, the most exhausting part of riding is standing in the lift line. Riding down while working on my turns does lead to muscle soreness after a while, but it's never tiring or painful while doing it. The chairlift ride is mostly about recovering from standing in line.

I'm on greens and easy blues, so that might have something to do with my experience, but the typical experience should not involve being tired in the middle of one run. On the short run I ride I can typically do 5 before feeling any tiredness.


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## poutanen (Dec 22, 2011)

essie52 said:


> Thank you! I need to figure out how to bring the board less across the fall line but still stay on edge. IE make the turn quicker.
> 
> I definitely think it is a comfort/confidence issue. It's gotten worse the last two times I've been out (to the point where I do not want to try new runs). I am staying big time in my comfort zone and even that's going poorly.
> 
> ...


Awesome, glad I could help! You had a pretty good wipeout or two fairly recently, right? Changing from a slower S turn, to a quicker fall line turn takes confidence.

What I used to do (and still do for the most part), is find a run that I'm comfortable on, and know well, and I just lap it again and again. If it's underneath a chair it's funny because I'll even turn in almost the exact same place each run. It's repeating the motions and building on the technique run after run.

If you're getting tired, stop. What hill do you usually ride at again? Don't worry about feeling like you should make it farther. Snowboarding takes a certain set of muscles that seem different from almost anything else I've done, and it takes time to build those muscles. Board as often as you can, but pace yourself when you're on the hill, and take it easy on your last run of the day as a bit of a cool down.

Again, despite all this, the goal is to have fun! Stop for a bit and look at the scenery, have a coffee/hot chocolate or something, just enjoy the sport and being outdoors in the winter when 99% of the population is scared of the outside world for 5 months!


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## Kenai (Dec 15, 2013)

essie52 said:


> Another question/comment:
> 
> I am in good shape. I work out daily. My prosthetist is always amazed at the strength of my thigh muscles <insert joke>. But honestly, I cannot make it down a run without stopping and resting at least once. My thighs usually burn to the point where they become rubber. Does this happen to others?
> 
> E


Too many variables to say, especially since your physical experience is so different from others. I agree with Pout - if you get tired, rest. There is no right distance you can go without resting!


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## f00bar (Mar 6, 2014)

Snowboarding uses your muscles probably a bit differently than your workouts do. It won't take long to get over that. Plus, I suspect your anxiety while riding is straining things even more. That you'll just have to relax about. Think smooth.


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## essie52 (Mar 19, 2014)

poutanen said:


> Awesome, glad I could help! You had a pretty good wipeout or two fairly recently, right? Changing from a slower S turn, to a quicker fall line turn takes confidence.
> 
> 
> Again, despite all this, the goal is to have fun! Stop for a bit and look at the scenery, have a coffee/hot chocolate or something, just enjoy the sport and being outdoors in the winter when 99% of the population is scared of the outside world for 5 months!


Yes. Two weeks ago I had a ski patrol needed, concussion causing fall. Since then I have not had fun. I am all up in my head (more so than normal for me which is already more than most). I am concentrating on making sure everything is done right. Before my slow progress did not bother me too badly. Now when I think about my my progress in comparison to other people it brings me to literal tears (I know that sounds weak but it's where I am at).

E


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## jae (Nov 27, 2015)

essie52 said:


> Another question/comment:
> 
> I am in good shape. I work out daily. My prosthetist is always amazed at the strength of my thigh muscles <insert joke>. But honestly, I cannot make it down a run without stopping and resting at least once. My thighs usually burn to the point where they become rubber. Does this happen to others?
> 
> E


happens to me at the end of the day, typically 8hrs, it can occur even faster depending on snow conditions and if I'm pumping my legs more than usual. normally 1 thigh starts cramping up, then the other after 5minutes, then it travels down to my calfs. 

I used to have to constantly sit down mid run because of fatigue. while I had the strength it was the lack of endurance that was killing me. try hot yoga and/or whatever cardio that works for you. I'm barely stopping now after I got my endurance up. what killed me the most was strapping in... haha. 

don't worry about making those S turns, just keep doing them, the same/faster/smoother and eventually you'll be able to tighten them to the riding style you want.


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## poutanen (Dec 22, 2011)

For what it's worth, I'm a patroller that still falls every day! It's part of snowboarding, the goal is to limit the season ending/shortening injuries. If you're catching edges, or having another issue that causes a violent fall, then it may be good to step back a notch and head back to slightly easier terrain to rebuild the confidence.

The trouble with the recent injury is that it likely is making you more tense when riding, when what you really need is to be loose and dynamic. Some people find their riding gets better after a beer or shot of booze, which I don't recommend, and the reason is it helps them get a little loose (insert joke here)... :embarrased1:

I told my wife this when she first started riding 7 years ago: You're going to make progress, and then you're going to have a fall that scares you and makes you take a step back. It's part of the learning process, and the main thing is to not let it stop you from snowboarding all together.

Sure enough, about 3 years into it she had a funny toeside turn, caught her edge, and tore her MCL. Spooked her pretty good for the rest of that season. Fast forward to today, and she's one of the few people that can keep up with me all over the mountain. She's a better rider than many patrollers... :surprise:

As hard as it is, don't compare your progression to others, some people can hop on a board and pick it up in a matter of days, some people take years to get comfortable making intermediate turns on intermediate runs.


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

essie52 said:


> Another question/comment:
> 
> I am in good shape. I work out daily. My prosthetist is always amazed at the strength of my thigh muscles <insert joke>. But honestly, I cannot make it down a run without stopping and resting at least once. My thighs usually burn to the point where they become rubber. Does this happen to others?
> 
> E


Sure! Especially in the early season on long runs. I sometimes have to stop midway and lay flat n shake the burn off 
It gets better through the season. I try to exercises @ home with holding squats as long as possible on a balance pad.


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## jae (Nov 27, 2015)

neni said:


> Sure! Especially in the early season on long runs. I sometimes have to stop midway and lay flat n shake the burn off
> It gets better through the season. I try to exercises @ home with holding squats as long as possible on a balance pad.


does that work? the laying flat and shaking? I normally just hit my thighs around 30 times to loosen the tension and then call it.


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

jae said:


> does that work? the laying flat and shaking?


Well, it does the trick for me . I've to stop for abt 15 seconds to loosen them stone-like muscles (and catch breath)


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## essie52 (Mar 19, 2014)

I just sent in an email to get information for Adaptive Action Sports @ Copper. Hubby is already looking at hotel prices. I think he is salivating a little too. We were talking and he says the biggest thing he notices is I tend to ride way forward on my board (all my weight on my front leg). He has told me this before. I guess I struggle with this because when I was learning "get onto the front of your board" seemed to be the rally cry of the instructors. 

Thank you again to you all. You really cheered me up and now I have some things to try next time I go out.

Best,
E
PS I am now getting airline quotes and mountain/resorts stats from hubby. The words, "If you can't get off work, I might go without you." actually came out of his mouth. Death stare followed.


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## f00bar (Mar 6, 2014)

I suspect that the Killington/Pico program is the best on the east coast.


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## Argo (Feb 25, 2010)

I lay flat right in the lift line between runs. When people start bitching I just give them the good old "namaste".... I mean what else are they gonna say after that. 

Really though, I stop mid run plenty when its a powder day and I'm riding higher than intermediate terrain. 


I am sure some place like big bear I could ride for 17 hours straight smashing 45 second groomers while resting 10 minutes on each lift ride, as a matter of fact I can do that at bachelor with 2 minute groomer runs..... the more snow and steepness you add the more you work and need to stop. The more timid and nervouse your ride will also shoot that ratio up....


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## essie52 (Mar 19, 2014)

f00bar said:


> I suspect that the Killington/Pico program is the best on the east coast.


I think you are likely right. I sent an email to them as well.
Best,
C


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## poutanen (Dec 22, 2011)

essie52 said:


> I guess I struggle with this because when I was learning "get onto the front of your board" seemed to be the rally cry of the instructors.
> 
> Thank you again to you all. You really cheered me up and now I have some things to try next time I go out.


Great!

Honestly it sounds like you'd be an instructors dream... "You ride on the front of your board, and complete your turns too much..." said no instructor ever!

Sounds like the trip would be fun! Never been to Colorado myself, although Montana and Wyoming are beautiful from what I've seen.


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## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

essie, kind of sounds that you got to get more dynamic movement going aft/tail to fore/nose going abit earlier...that is transitioning from the tail to nose...and get comfortable with lying the board flat and with the nose pointed down the fall line.


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## Kenai (Dec 15, 2013)

essie52 said:


> We were talking and he says the biggest thing he notices is I tend to ride way forward on my board (all my weight on my front leg).


When you said the back of your board always slid around I wondered if this was the case. Weight on front foot initiates the turn, but it doesn't stay there. During the turn your weight centers and depending on board and conditions even moves back. 

Where do you ride now? I know Sunapee in NH and Sunday River in Maine both have pretty healthy adaptive programs.


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## essie52 (Mar 19, 2014)

Kenai said:


> Where do you ride now? I know Sunapee in NH and Sunday River in Maine both have pretty healthy adaptive programs.


I have never used the program at Sunapee but I have used Maine Adaptive (Sunday River program). They are lovely and I enjoy the people there. Unfortunately, there are very few snowboard instructors ;(


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## essie52 (Mar 19, 2014)

poutanen said:


> Honestly it sounds like you'd be an instructors dream... "You ride on the front of your board, and complete your turns too much..." said no instructor ever!


I've been told that more than once. Part of it is because nothing is natural for me. Every movement requires thought and muscle memory. Therefore, I will practice one thing over and over and over and then practice the next skill over and over and over.

I have been told I have all the individual skills needed to be an amazing boarder I just need to put them all together. I do not agree with this statement but I have been told it :blahblah:

Best,
E


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## timmytard (Mar 19, 2009)

essie52 said:


> I definitely think it is a comfort/confidence issue. It's gotten worse the last two times I've been out (to the point where I do not want to try new runs). I am staying big time in my comfort zone and even that's going poorly. I likely need to put my big girl undies on and get over it. Thank you for your advice.
> 
> E


Pics or it didn't happen.
Haha that sounds a little better

TT


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## essie52 (Mar 19, 2014)

timmytard said:


> Pics or it didn't happen.
> Haha that sounds a little better
> 
> TT


LOL there was no need for the edit >


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## essie52 (Mar 19, 2014)

I took a lesson Saturday to increase my confidence. After listening to me the instructor brought me on a couple of runs I have always been afraid to try. I killed them!!:laugh2:
Two comments the instructor gave that I did not already know were:
1) Poutanen, you'll appreciate this... I tended to get really high up on my edges (particularly toe side), and
2) my stance was really narrow.

So, Sunday I widened my stance on my Burton Nugget (with channel system) to 18" and Monday headed back out. The first run was a little rough but after that I picked up speed and tried some more new-to-me runs. Overall, I had the most successful day snowboarding EVER!

Here's the rub. Try not to laugh or cringe (and I do recognize how lucky I was).... when I got home and was removing my board from the Jeep I noticed that the bindings looked "off". I brought it inside and it turns out I had not tightened the screws enough on my bindings. The front binding had moved to the furthest back position and the back had also moved further back. The bindings were 19" apart. 

Now, I can't decide if I should move them to what I had (centered, 18" apart) or keep it offset. I have no idea when the bindings actually moved. Good thing is with the channel system it's an easy change; I just need to make sure I tighten everything enough. :wink:

Best,
E


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## chomps1211 (Mar 30, 2011)

essie52 said:


> I just sent in an email to get information for We were talking and he says the biggest thing he notices is I tend to ride way forward on my board (all my weight on my front leg). He has told me this before. I guess I struggle with this because when I was learning "get onto the front of your board" seemed to be the rally cry of the instructors.
> 
> 
> PS I am now getting airline quotes and mountain/resorts stats from hubby. The words, "If you can't get off work, I might go without you." actually came out of his mouth. Death stare followed.





Kenai said:


> When you said the back of your board always slid around I wondered if this was the case. Weight on front foot initiates the turn, but it doesn't stay there. During the turn your weight centers and depending on board and conditions even moves back.


^This!^
If you're having board spin issues when pointed down the fall line, this could be the culprit. In truth,.. most of the reason that "get forward" is the instructorrs mantra for beginners is because most will be leaning sooooo far back out of fear. 

That and when you are pointed downslope what _feels_ like being pretty far forward is often not because you naturally want to be perpendicular to gravity & not the slope. And that would have you still riding slightly backseat. Thus we tend to encourage a somewhat more exaggerated "feeling" forward lean that in fact actually gets your weight centered more over both feet. 

Now you will find that your weight will shift fore & aft during various sections if you're turning properly. This is natural & needed for some types of terrain, conditions & turns. It will come with practice & experience! :grin:





essie52 said:


> Another question/comment:
> 
> I am in good shape. I work out daily. My prosthetist is always amazed at the strength of my thigh muscles <insert joke>. But honestly, I cannot make it down a run without stopping and resting at least once. My thighs usually burn to the point where they become rubber. Does this happen to others?
> 
> E


I wouldn't worry too much about that. From everything you've posted & talking with you... you are almost certainly working your muscles *much* harder than most of the rest of us in order to just cruise a run. Rest when you feel the need. 

Last week up @ Boyne,... I absolutely hated having to stop after only a half dozen runs or so. It was AMAZING conditions. I was soooo disappointed in myself. But I also knew that if I pushed any further when I was focusing more on how bad my legs & feet hurt and not on what I was doing,..? I was likely to make a mistake & injure myself. Maybe bad enough to end the trip if not my season. It was hard to swallow,.. but by doing that, by the 4-5th day I was able to stay out much longer,.. ride faster, smoother & enjoy my time more. 



essie52 said:


> Yes. Two weeks ago I had a ski patrol needed, concussion causing fall. Since then I have not had fun. I am all up in my head (more so than normal for me which is already more than most). I am concentrating on making sure everything is done right. Before my slow progress did not bother me too badly. Now when I think about my my progress in comparison to other people it brings me to literal tears (I know that sounds weak but it's where I am at).
> 
> E


Im sure you're aware that this is likely the biggest factor that has you questioning your progress! It's natural after an injury. 

It's not weak and You get mad props from me for getting back on the horse after bonking your head like that. 

I definitely know how hard it can be to get over that timidness that can result from such an injury. 

6 years ago,.. I freaked myself out by getting airborne accidentally and cratering @ the bottom of the roller. :laugh:. I didn't even get hurt,... but I've been unable to approach a bump, fearure, side hit, whatever,.. without slamming on the brakes. :embarrased1: Six years of that. 

I also spent most of last season and the start of this one more & more convinced and fearful that my back injury and year away from riding had PERMANENTLY stunted my progression. 

It wasntuntil this last week of riding 9 straight days on excellent snow that I started to feel my confidence returning. 

I even got brave enough to attempt several small jumps & hops off side hits. In fact I officailly landed my very first legit air last week. Wasn't much. Maybe two feet max,.. but I landed it and tried several more. Some I stomped,.. a couple I failed spectacularly. 

My point is it took me 6 years to get there. And my only physical challenge is being old, fat, and clumsy!!! :grin:

Don't give up on yourself,... cut yourself a little slack,.. you're a SHITON braver than most ppl I know!!!

It will return if you want it to!
:thumbsup:


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## poutanen (Dec 22, 2011)

essie52 said:


> Overall, I had the most successful day snowboarding EVER!


That's awesome!!! An 18" stance is still quite narrow, now I'm not sure how the leg would affect the stance however. Most people say my stance is too narrow, and I ride with about a 20.5" stance width (measured from centre to centre of bindings)

I'd be tempted to put the bindings back to reference position, then slide them equally in or out until you get to the 19" range. Try a run or three with that setup before changing again. Gotta love the channel, eh? 

Tighten the screws well, I usually use a cordless drill with a clutch set to it's highest setting (likely around 10-15 lb-ft).

Again, HAVE FUN! Sounds like you are...


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## timmytard (Mar 19, 2009)

essie52 said:


> LOL there was no need for the edit >


Haha you can never be too careful.

So, the pics are in the mail, so to speak?
Haha, I'm just fuckin whit chya.
You know that, but just invade some of the other whiners out there thought I was cereal.

Not that I wouldn't accept them haha. I would lol

TT

I'm not done reading your reply yet.
Sounds like a congrats is in order though?


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## timmytard (Mar 19, 2009)

essie52 said:


> I took a lesson Saturday to increase my confidence. After listening to me the instructor brought me on a couple of runs I have always been afraid to try. I killed them!!:laugh2:
> Two comments the instructor gave that I did not already know were:
> 1) Poutanen, you'll appreciate this... I tended to get really high up on my edges (particularly toe side), and
> 2) my stance was really narrow.
> ...


Bring a little screw driver with you. Or a tiny little ratchet with a number 3 bit in it.
The ratchet will be easier for you to tighten cause of the extra leverage.

I don't think centered is the way to go.
Width I can't really comment on that's a personal preference thing.

Keep the screwdriver in your pocket, so you can change it on the fly. 
Change it often, to see what you like.


TT


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## essie52 (Mar 19, 2014)

timmytard said:


> Haha you can never be too careful.
> 
> So, the pics are in the mail, so to speak?
> Haha, I'm just fuckin whit chya.
> ...


Fruit Loops :x


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## essie52 (Mar 19, 2014)

poutanen said:


> That's awesome!!! An 18" stance is still quite narrow, now I'm not sure how the leg would affect the stance however. Most people say my stance is too narrow, and I ride with about a 20.5" stance width (measured from centre to centre of bindings)
> 
> I'd be tempted to put the bindings back to reference position, then slide them equally in or out until you get to the 19" range. Try a run or three with that setup before changing again. Gotta love the channel, eh?
> 
> ...


I think the ref is at 20" (not positive; too lazy to go check). The prosthetic leg does affect my stance and make me more narrow but I also my inseam is only 26.5" (I'm on the small side... a bitch for me as an amputee as everything tends to be engineered for larger ppl).

E


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## poutanen (Dec 22, 2011)

Cool, I'd put them at ref, then bump each in 1/2 - 3/4 inch and start from there. I've tried going 2-3" wider than I typically like, and while it felt weird, it wasn't unridable. Experiment with stance, it might be one of the things stopping you from feeling more comfortable!

As always, have fun. :grin:


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

poutanen said:


> Experiment with stance, it might be one of the things stopping you from feeling more comfortable!


^This!
Stance/angles are nothing written in stone. Over the years, I've played a lot with angles and width and every other handfull years a different set-up felt better. Especially width makes a big difference in balance IMO. 

I now ride a stance which is wider stance than the ref stance of my boards (22.9" @ 32.7" inseam). However, each time I get a new board, I first set it up at reference to get a feel for them. That stance is ok-ish on nice groomers, but once I get into pow or moguls and need more option to ride low, to have power for quick turns, I really feel the restriction of that too narrow stance. A quick shift of the bindings in the gondola only by 3cm (1.18") and it's night and day difference to me. The wider stance gives me better balance and quicker, more powerful reaction.

Have a scredriver in your pocket and slowly bit by bit try to go wider. Give your body a half day to adapt to the stance; changing angles/stance always feels wired at first. If you later feel comfy and feel that it helps to ride low and keep balance, great! Widen a notch more the next time. Rinse repeat until you get to a point where you feel that it's not getting better. Ride a year like that and next season, do the experiment again.


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## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

essie...iirc u have cants? With cants u CAN go wilder :wink:

and irrc when I started (inseam @ 30"), was at 19" and now 22.5-23" and could go abit wider with cants. And tomorrow will be picking up my old freeride camber board from the shop...where they added another set of inserts so that I could get a wider stance.


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## chomps1211 (Mar 30, 2011)

essie52 said:


> I took a lesson Saturday to increase my confidence. After listening to me the instructor brought me on a couple of runs I have always been afraid to try. I killed them!!:laugh2:
> Two comments the instructor gave that I did not already know were:
> 1) Poutanen, you'll appreciate this... I tended to get really high up on my edges (particularly toe side), and
> 2) my stance was really narrow.
> ...


Ok.... apparently I have one other "intellectual" challenge.... 

Making sure I read the most _pertinent_ post before replying! :blink: :laugh:

Glad to hear you got a good confidence boosting day since those earlier posts!!

I had to widen my stance into my second year as someone pointed out that it seemed a bit narrow. It definitely helped. 

I've since adopted an even wider stance for all my boards. Fortunately with the channel system,... you can quickly and easily make a change and put it right back if you dont like it. No fuss! :grin:

(But Yes.... please be sure to tighten all the screws!!!)  >


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