# switch x type step in bindings question



## killclimbz (Aug 10, 2007)

Completely obsolete. Bindings nor boots are made any more. You are much better off going with something current.


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## krazykoreankid (Aug 6, 2013)

thanks for the swift reply!
no wonder i couldnt find anything >_<

i think i read somewhere on the forums that it's possible to set up Flow bindings with a Burton ICS. Is that correct?

...Maybe i could combine it with some "speed lace" or "speed wheel" boots and get boarding lickedy-split!


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## killclimbz (Aug 10, 2007)

I think there is some sort of adapter plate, but it's going to be half assed. If you are going ICS you might as well go full on and get the bindings that work with it. Either that or get something that uses the standard whole pattern.


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## krazykoreankid (Aug 6, 2013)

:/ well that makes me a little sad, but not discouraged!

i'll keep looking and see if i can find something similar to a "flow" type binding that Burton makes. *crosses fingers*

thanks again for your reply!

any suggestions?


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## killclimbz (Aug 10, 2007)

Why the obsession with Flow or step in bindings? I am not against Flow, I've used them several times in the past. The thing is that with a little practice, it barely takes any longer to get into strap style bindings.


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## krazykoreankid (Aug 6, 2013)

i have arthritis in my spine so its difficult for me to strap my bindings :/ its also hard for me to get up from a sitting position after strapping in... i basically look like a doofus when i try to get up.

i think with a binding set up like flow i would enjoy the sport more


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## killclimbz (Aug 10, 2007)

I never have to sit down to put my strap bindings on. Regardless of what style you go with you are going to have bend over to secure and release the binding. 

Only un-evolved sit to put their bindings on...

Seriously though, I think you just need to concentrate more on strapping in while standing up. Burton Ratchets are pretty good. Smooth and easy to operate.


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## krazykoreankid (Aug 6, 2013)

idk, i just feel kinda primitive using strap in bindings. But i'm itching to try something similar to "flow" bindings. It just looks so cool and simple!

ive read the pros and cons to them but i mostly would like to park ride since i live in Flat ass Nebraska. It seems well worth the investment to save a few seconds every time i get off a lift because there is only 1 or 2 places to board around here... the lines of ppl are annoying and its too crowded to sit down.

suggestions are still welcome and appreciated


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## killclimbz (Aug 10, 2007)

Flow makes good bindings. I would get a board that they work with. IE, not Burton...


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## krazykoreankid (Aug 6, 2013)

I kinda figured that would be the basic suggestion, it's just ever since I saw the Burton infinite channel system I've thought it was pretty darn genius, so I'm kinda obsessing over it at the moment. Are there any other manufacturers with a similar design?

I've looked pretty hard and can't find anything but I SWEAR I saw something with a dual channel system, somebody suggested it in a "unique board design" topic. I just gotta find it again! <_< >_>


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## UNION INHOUSE (Nov 13, 2012)

krazykoreankid said:


> I kinda figured that would be the basic suggestion, it's just ever since I saw the Burton infinite channel system I've thought it was pretty darn genius, so I'm kinda obsessing over it at the moment. Are there any other manufacturers with a similar design?
> 
> I've looked pretty hard and can't find anything but I SWEAR I saw something with a dual channel system, somebody suggested it in a "unique board design" topic. I just gotta find it again! <_< >_>


Channel boards have been around for 14 years (give or take a year). The reason you don't see more of them, is it's solving an issue that doesn't exist. The channel also effects the way the board flexes. Whether that's a good thing, or a bad thing depends on who you're talking to. 

The channel is great if you don't have an adjustable heelcup, and effected by stance limitations. We make channel compatible disks and actually sell quite a few, proving it's a viable option. 

Cheers.


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## killclimbz (Aug 10, 2007)

And there you go. UIH giving you a definitive answer...


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## krazykoreankid (Aug 6, 2013)

hmm well thank you both for your wisdom ^_^ i'll have to do some research on these "adjustable heel cups".

Not sure if it matters, but i actually DO have a minor stance limitation due to my arthritis. It affects my hip flexors and lower back flexibility. It kinda forces me to ride "duck stance", which is common and im comfortable with, but thats why im trying to find equipment that makes strapping in and adjusting, fast and flexible. Some days i feel stiffer than others and it forces me to change up my stance just a little. So, for some reason, i have a feeling that a combination of these easy-go options will make my snowboarding experience effortlessly more enjoyable 

it sux being 25 and to have arthritis -__-*


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## UNION INHOUSE (Nov 13, 2012)

krazykoreankid said:


> hmm well thank you both for your wisdom ^_^ i'll have to do some research on these "adjustable heel cups".
> 
> Not sure if it matters, but i actually DO have a minor stance limitation due to my arthritis. It affects my hip flexors and lower back flexibility. It kinda forces me to ride "duck stance", which is common and im comfortable with, but thats why im trying to find equipment that makes strapping in and adjusting, fast and flexible. Some days i feel stiffer than others and it forces me to change up my stance just a little. So, for some reason, i have a feeling that a combination of these easy-go options will make my snowboarding experience effortlessly more enjoyable
> 
> it sux being 25 and to have arthritis -__-*


I'm not totally sure, but I believe you can still get the Clicker system from K2. Could be a good solution. Maybe one BA or Nivek know something about this?

You gotta figure out how to remedy your arthritis man!


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## solucien (Jan 11, 2012)

Hi KrazyKoreanKid,

Sorry to hear about your arthritis, but stoked to hear you are still out there snowboarding!
You assessment of getting some Flow bindings is very wise, as they are indeed a lot easier to get into. You do not have to bend down as much as for two-straps, and it's only one pull on the hiback for each binding instead of closing and ratcheting two straps per foot.

The Flow NX2 and Fuse series models all come with Multi-disks, which are designed to be totally compatible with the Burton Channel-system.
For the other Flow models there is a separate Channel-disk available just like UnionInhouse said.

But I would look into the NX2 or Fuse series models; they have the new NASTY Active Strap system, which makes it even easier to get in&out! 

Enjoy!


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## BurtonAvenger (Aug 14, 2007)

UNION INHOUSE said:


> I'm not totally sure, but I believe you can still get the Clicker system from K2. Could be a good solution. Maybe one BA or Nivek know something about this?
> 
> You gotta figure out how to remedy your arthritis man!


Pretty sure you're closer to that landfill full of Clickers up in the NW than we are. 

There is the Kwicker system but that's for splitboards and as I haven't tested it yet I'm not sure how practical it actually is. Nor do I think even with some DIYing could you get it to work on a solid board. 

So you have arthritis. It's not the end of the world for you, I have it. In fact it's flaring right now in my hips as I type this due to the fact I'm positive it's snowing up the street from me. The best way to mitigate it is to exercise, stretch, and look into supplements/enzymes that can help you. Or just don't snowboard. Harsh reality but the truth. 

Solucien is right there is an EST compatible disk for the Flows and that could be an option. I would rule out attempting to bother with the K2 Cinch tech as it's a pile of shit. The APO Dual Tech though could be an option as well. 

But honestly don't sit down to strap in do some yoga, do some exercise, and learn how to bend at the knees, hips, waist, and back to strap in. It's not that hard. If my geriatric ass can still do it a couple hundred times a day I'm sure you can too.


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## killclimbz (Aug 10, 2007)

I think the Kwicker would work with those solid board adapter pucks. I am not sure why though. I find it interesting K2 did not go to their own athlete, Kyle Miller who spends close to 200 days a year on his split and get advice. 

I can tell they were thinking about the design, but it seems they didn't quite punch it all the way through to me. Then again, I could be wrong. Time will tell.


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## UNION INHOUSE (Nov 13, 2012)

killclimbz said:


> I think the Kwicker would work with those solid board adapter pucks. I am not sure why though. I find it interesting K2 did not go to their own athlete, Kyle Miller who spends close to 200 days a year on his split and get advice.
> 
> I can tell they were thinking about the design, but it seems they didn't quite punch it all the way through to me. Then again, I could be wrong. Time will tell.


I know next to nothing about the Kwicker, but I'm under the impression that the boots are based on the original system? 

I was thinking he could buy the new boots and find some old Clicker bindings online. 

OP - Call K2 customer service and ask.


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## BurtonAvenger (Aug 14, 2007)

UNION INHOUSE said:


> I know next to nothing about the Kwicker, but I'm under the impression that the boots are based on the original system?
> 
> I was thinking he could buy the new boots and find some old Clicker bindings online.
> 
> OP - Call K2 customer service and ask.


There's tweaks to it that lead me to believe there won't be any compatibility.


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## killclimbz (Aug 10, 2007)

Yeah, I don't think it would be that great for riding hard pack. On top of that, you are stuck with whatever forward lean the boot offers. That is it. No customization.


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## poutanen (Dec 22, 2011)

killclimbz said:


> Only un-evolved sit to put their bindings on...


You talking about me?












UNION INHOUSE said:


> Channel boards have been around for 14 years (give or take a year). The reason you don't see more of them, is it's solving an issue that doesn't exist. The channel also effects the way the board flexes.


Having been on the channel for a few years, and now back on a 4x4 board I strongly disagree. I'd be thrilled if everyone started copying the channel and started making EST/ICS bindings to go with. It just makes so much more sense than having a degree wheel secured by 4 screws under your foot.

That's like saying quick lace systems solve a problem that didn't exist. Sure with laces you can do your boots up, but with quick systems you can do it faster, and sometimes with better adjustability (dual zone, etc.)


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## killclimbz (Aug 10, 2007)

I actually don't find the EST system better. I much prefer the 4x2 hole pattern at this time.


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## BurtonAvenger (Aug 14, 2007)

Everyone prefers using ICS till you're in the air on a 20 foot jump and your front foot decides it wants to shift forward 4 inches and rotate 30 degrees. Then suddenly 2 x 4 looks a lot better.


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## poutanen (Dec 22, 2011)

Bah, I've had a screw come loose a couple times on 4x2 and once on ICS/EST. Just torque them properly and it's no worry.

I just don't like the fact that with 4 hole setups you're limited in fine adjustability to either toe/heel side or forward/backward. I wouldn't specifically buy a board because it was channel based, but if two identical boards were for sale and one were the channel, I'd buy that over traditional disc style.


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## Martin J (Dec 20, 2015)

Man, could I rant and rave about this topic... I'll try to not be too obnoxious.

I've been snowboarding for over 25 years (not a typo!), I have degrees in science and engineering, and I taught snowboarding for three years in a resort on Mt. Hood, Oregon. Additionally, I was on the original PSIA Snowboarding Steering Committee in the late 1980s. I'm a middle-aged snowboarder, and I've witnessed the growth of the sport on a first-hand basis. 

Granted, some of the step-in systems are terrible. K2/Shimano, Burton, Rossignol, and others have made some attempts in this direction, but they've all failed miserably. The first and second generation of SWITCH bindings weren't very good, either. 

However, I'm absolutely convinced that the last generation SWITCH step-in binding was the best design ever invented. (These were the A-99, Team-N, and Special-N models.) Don't take my word for it; ask any adult you see using SWITCH bindings, and they'll tell you the same story. 

Here's another bit of evidence: Industrial Design magazine gave its annual award to SWITCH Manufacturing for the N-Type binding in 1999. 

So what happened?

Vans bought SWITCH around 1998 or so, and and then Vans/Switch was purchased by V F Corporation in 2004. VFC owns brands like Lee and Wrangler Jeans - stuff made cheaply in places like China and India. 

V F Corporation almost immediately gave up on step-in bindings/boots. Why? It had nothing to do with performance, convenience or safety; rather it was a purely economic decision. Cheap, made-in-China, plastic, strap-in bindings can be manufactured for something like US$20 - even the "high performance" models. Boots... maybe US$50, tops. The SWITCH step-in mechanism was precision machine manufactured for about US$60 in the mid-1990s, so probably over US$100 today. Compatible boots were much more expensive to produce, too. So, if you're a giant company that can sell bindings or boots for, say, $100 to $300, you're going to go with the cheapest cost: plastic, strap-in, nonsensical, cheap Chinese junk instead of expensive-to-produce step-in bindings and boots.

I've been using, buying, selling and trading SWITCH bindings and compatible boots since Vans quit making them around 2004. Mostly I do this via eBay, but quite a bit of swapping between SWITCH enthusiasts goes on via word of mouth and/or Craigslist. There exists a rabid sub-culture of (mostly middle-aged men) SWITCH enthusiasts who are fanatics; I've known some guys who simply gave up on snowboarding after their irreplaceable SWITCH bindings/boots finally gave out (and they tried strap-ins a few times). I have a couple of cases of the Team-N bindings and a few boxes of compatible boots packed away in plastic in my garage. I'm part of that insane sub-group.

If you're interested in further discussion and/or swapping/buying/selling SWITCH stuff, feel free to contact me at

Best wishes for a great snow season to everyone!

Martin

P.S. I have a couple of hundred days on my 2004 Vans Flyaway (SWITCH-compatible) boots, and I easily get 100-150 days out of a set of SWITCH Team-N bindings. This is robust equipment. I've never had any component - which the exception of laces - fail in any way whatsoever. Cheers!


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## Kenai (Dec 15, 2013)

Martin J said:


> Man, could I rant and rave about this topic... I'll try to not be too obnoxious.


You failed.


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## Retox093 (Jan 6, 2017)

*Anyone know where you could find them now?*

Just like it says, I been on the hunt for these because just like Martin J said they are really solid equipment and I shattered my heel racing motocross and ratchet binding put so much pressure on my heel I get 3 maybe 4 runs in before my heel is in total pain. 

So if anyone on this thread might know where to find some besides ebay or a lead, phone number to a shop etc would be greatly appreciated. 

Let me know what you guys do.

-jay


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## FlyAway (Feb 23, 2018)

Martin J said:


> Man, could I rant and rave about this topic... I'll try to not be too obnoxious.
> 
> I've been snowboarding for over 25 years (not a typo!), I have degrees in science and engineering, and I taught snowboarding for three years in a resort on Mt. Hood, Oregon. Additionally, I was on the original PSIA Snowboarding Steering Committee in the late 1980s. I'm a middle-aged snowboarder, and I've witnessed the growth of the sport on a first-hand basis.
> 
> ...


What luck! After skiing since the late 70s and watching my friends snowboard in the early 90s I decided to get a snowboard. I hated buckles so I set myself up in in the Switch bindings with Van's Flyaway BOAs. I'm glad to know of their fate even if it was pathetic and sad. 

I always get a ton of compliments on the bindings and boots and it's bittersweet to know that I bought the end of an era in 2003 or 2004.

I just saw a very worn pair of Flyaway BOAs selling on ebay for over $300. 

For now I'm back to skiing so I can teach my kids to ski.

The rant reply was perfect. Thank you.


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