# Binding angles for different boards



## Scalpelman (Dec 5, 2017)

Hey all I’m just setting up my new Niche Pyre for the season. I usually ride pretty aggressively with +24/+6 angles on my freeride and carving set ups. But does anyone change up binding angles for different boards/conditions? Coming from the NE, I don’t have a lot of experience with big pow dumps.  I was thinking of backing off to 18/0 for my pow board.


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## Snowdaddy (Feb 2, 2018)

On my Pencil and Tracer I ride +27/+6. On my First Call I ride +27/+6 to 21/-6 depending on conditions. Lots of people and messy snow I will ride more negative on the back foot because it makes it easier to slide around. If I'm riding snake runs in the trees with my kids I like to have positive/negative.

I ride mostly positive on both feet though.


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## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

I defintley do. Anywhere from 12/-6 and 21.5 wide, to 24/+6 and 19 wide. The more carvey the setup the narrow and more forward the angles get. I ride 18/0 probably the most.


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## Jkb818 (Sep 28, 2019)

Nivek said:


> I defintley do. Anywhere from 12/-6 and 21.5 wide, to 24/+6 and 19 wide. The more carvey the setup the narrow and more forward the angles get. I ride 18/0 probably the most.


Would you recommend a + + stance on Jones storm chaser?


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## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

If you like it sure. I think I rode 21/+3 on it but whatever feels good to you.


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## Snowdaddy (Feb 2, 2018)

So go 21/3 

Edit: haha.... what beat me to it


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## ridethecliche (Feb 27, 2019)

Definitely ride more towards duck stance on directional twins vs pure directional boards.


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## Rip154 (Sep 23, 2017)

for me it's a question of riding park or not, not what board it is


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## Jkb818 (Sep 28, 2019)

I ride zero park But have always had a slightly duck stance just because...If I was going to go + + what’s a good starting point?


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## Snowdaddy (Feb 2, 2018)

I'd start with +21/+3 to +24/+3.

Just getting the back foot past that 0 angle is going to make a difference.


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## Jkb818 (Sep 28, 2019)

Snowdaddy said:


> I'd start with +21/+3 to +24/+3.
> 
> Just getting the back foot past that 0 angle is going to make a difference.


Cool. Will do.


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## Jkb818 (Sep 28, 2019)

Adjustment made. Now I just need some actual storms to justify bringing out the storm chaser.


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## Scalpelman (Dec 5, 2017)

Nivek said:


> I defintley do. Anywhere from 12/-6 and 21.5 wide, to 24/+6 and 19 wide. The more carvey the setup the narrow and more forward the angles get. I ride 18/0 probably the most.


Thanks, 18/0 it is. I'm interested to hear your experience with narrower stance for carvy?


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## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

Head to insta and search for ToyFilms
Turn like that and it feels a lot better double positive and narrow. The protege rides like 30/+9 and like 18" wide.


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## Alpine Duke (Jun 21, 2015)

Heavy sigh. I wish. I keep trying double forward for carving and for some reason I always give some bad torsional flex. I can surf soft that way but why. I even ride a hardboot board too, but when I put softies both positive I get tons of chatter. Not the board, not the stance....just something I am jacking up when I try to ride that way. Don't have it when duck.


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## BoardieK (Dec 21, 2015)

I ride +30/+9 on my camber board but have 2 notches more forward lean on the rear binding which seems to balance the geometry for me. 
I have a new shorter/softer/tapered powder board which I'm planning to ride with less aggressive angles.


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## smellysell (Oct 29, 2018)

Do you guys ride switch with those angles? I've played with ++ some, but that along with landing jumps feeling weird is what always has me switching back. 

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


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## Rip154 (Sep 23, 2017)

smellysell said:


> Do you guys ride switch with those angles? I've played with ++ some, but that along with landing jumps feeling weird is what always has me switching back.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


Would be fakie I guess. Most have some kinda duck stance set up for park. Anything past 21-27 will feel weird on jumps, just gotta test it and find your prefs.


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## WigMar (Mar 17, 2019)

smellysell said:


> Do you guys ride switch with those angles? I've played with ++ some, but that along with landing jumps feeling weird is what always has me switching back.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


Yeah, riding switch on a directional board feels pretty weird anyway. You've got reverse taper and setback leading into a ridiculously long tail. I don't think going ++ feels any worse than that. Switch just feels more like riding backwards. You can manage fine for 180's and getting out of a tight spot in the trees, but more switch than that seems kinda besides the point. I've seen Terje and some Japanese riders absolutely destroy switch riding with ++ angles and directional boards. Where there is a will...

As far as jumps go, I think you just get used to it. Your hips and shoulders are much more open with ++. I think that's what was holding me back on jumps at first. It messed with my air awareness, and I felt kinda twisted when I got it right.


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## d3tro (Apr 4, 2018)

I was actually asking myself if I should do , at least +15 front and a between +5 and 0 for the rear on my Burton One Hitter.
Will need to try to found out

Envoyé de mon SM-A520W en utilisant Tapatalk


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## smellysell (Oct 29, 2018)

WigMar said:


> Yeah, riding switch on a directional board feels pretty weird anyway. You've got reverse taper and setback leading into a ridiculously long tail. I don't think going ++ feels any worse than that. Switch just feels more like riding backwards. You can manage fine for 180's and getting out of a tight spot in the trees, but more switch than that seems kinda besides the point. I've seen Terje and some Japanese riders absolutely destroy switch riding with ++ angles and directional boards. Where there is a will...
> 
> As far as jumps go, I think you just get used to it. Your hips and shoulders are much more open with ++. I think that's what was holding me back on jumps at first. It messed with my air awareness, and I felt kinda twisted when I got it right.


Yeah, I think it's just not for me. I like riding switch a lot, and it just is too weird. 

ETA: All I own are directional boards at the moment, and while they definitely feel different riding switch, it's not on the same planet as ++ for me. Maybe because it's ++ on a directional board! 

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


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## Scalpelman (Dec 5, 2017)

smellysell said:


> Do you guys ride switch with those angles? I've played with ++ some, but that along with landing jumps feeling weird is what always has me switching back.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


Watching those Toyfilms on YouTube you can see that when they ride switch they are essentially looking backwards (toward the tip) most of the time. Too much of a neck crank I guess.


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## Paxford (Jan 7, 2019)

Nivek said:


> Head to insta and search for ToyFilms
> Turn like that and it feels a lot better double positive and narrow. The protege rides like 30/+9 and like 18" wide.


18” wide, must be nice to have that narrow of an option


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## drblast (Feb 28, 2017)

I have a K2 Overboard that is OK carving with my normal duck stance and really comes into its own with double positive angles.

I think most directional boards feel better +/+, but I also get bored just riding in one direction after a few runs and start to feel like I should be wearing a day-glo onesie and sweatband. Not that that's not totally rad, it's just not my thing.


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## robotfood99 (Mar 19, 2016)

24/+6 at 18 or 19 inches apart for directionals, 21/-3~-9 at 20 to 22 inches width for directional twins, and the ol' spread eagle 23+ inches 15/-15 for true twins.

For powy turns, +/+ is smooth and the least disruptive to forward momentum for me. I prefer +/- for times when I want to use the edges and not really care about how clean a line I draw, which is most of the time lol.


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## Kijima (Mar 3, 2019)

Being duck footed keeps your hips parallel to the board which helps you keep yourself straight with zero effort, but is not good for heel turns. 

Being FF allows your hips to open up for heel turns but requires some corrective effort when trying to stay straight. 

Many duck footers will feel the same sensation of constantly turning heel side while one footing because with the back foot not held captive the hips naturally want to rotate. 

Pushing the front hip a little to the toe side is the solution.


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## Paxford (Jan 7, 2019)

+24 -6. I've tried ++ time and again, never worked for me. But I am going to try it again *just* for carving groomers, nothing more. Maybe I'll get comfortable when I don't mix in other stuff. I think it limits my power when riding berms and pipe. For tight radius slashes and more drawn out carves on an incline I don't get enough power or stability with that backfoot +.


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## Kijima (Mar 3, 2019)

Paxford said:


> +24 -6. I've tried ++ time and again, never worked for me. But I am going to try it again *just* for carving groomers, nothing more. Maybe I'll get comfortable when I don't mix in other stuff. I think it limits my power when riding berms and pipe. For tight radius slashes and more drawn out carves on an incline I don't get enough power or stability with that backfoot +.


Try more angle on the front too. 
+36 +24, get used to being heavy on the back foot just bending the front knee to achieve forward weighting and focus on keeping hips parallel to the board when riding lazily.


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## Yeahti87 (Jan 17, 2019)

From -15/+15 to +27/+15. Depends on the board and what I want to do. Going +/+ means a narrower stance, easier to carve heelside but that combo results in much weaker ollies and less stability in a challenging terrain.


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## Paxford (Jan 7, 2019)

Kijima said:


> Try more angle on the front too.
> +36 +24, get used to being heavy on the back foot just bending the front knee to achieve forward weighting and focus on keeping hips parallel to the board when riding lazily.


Yep, I’m basically 30 degrees of separation natural stance so 35 5, 45 15 etc


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## WigMar (Mar 17, 2019)

Kijima said:


> Try more angle on the front too.
> +36 +24, get used to being heavy on the back foot just bending the front knee to achieve forward weighting and focus on keeping hips parallel to the board when riding lazily.


+36, +24 huh? I'll give that a shot. I'm used to keeping the same amount of splay between my feet, but I don't think that's essential. Seems like turning the rear foot inwards more could have some profound effects. I ride my skateboard that way, why not my snowboard?


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## Kijima (Mar 3, 2019)

Paxford said:


> Yep, I’m basically 30 degrees of separation natural stance so 35 5, 45 15 etc


As you reduce that degree of separation you will find more ability for rotation. I think 12 degrees of separation is ideal.


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## Kijima (Mar 3, 2019)

WigMar said:


> +36, +24 huh? I'll give that a shot. I'm used to keeping the same amount of splay between my feet, but I don't think that's essential. Seems like turning the rear foot inwards more could have some profound effects. I ride my skateboard that way, why not my snowboard?


If we could swap out or big toe for our little toe on the back foot then zero degrees of separation would be ideal. Adding separation is only beneficial because it put the rear big toe near the edge.
The reason I say keep yourself back foot heavy is to maintain a more direct line of force to the board, if you keep the same patterns of weighting that you used when duck stance you will find too much force is directed toward the rear toes which is not a direct line of force and that is why it can feel weaker to be FF for many people, lack of power for ollies etc. 
Think about how our feet recieve feedback as we shift weight rearward, duck pattern goes like this. Front toe >front heel> rear heel> rear toe. We are tuned to interpret the rear toe being weighted as the finish of that cycle but when you change to FF the patten changes to fron toe> front heel> rear toe>rear heel. This means we have to allow weight to shift past the rear toe without our autopilot recognising the weighted rear toe and calling the turn over. If you finish on the rear toe you never achieve a direct line of force to the back of the board. 

I have a buddy I skate with who is hanging on to duck stance for snowboarding but every time I tell him to look at his feet when he is skating he always finds himself FF lol.


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## MrDavey2Shoes (Mar 5, 2018)

This year I’ll be going ++ but only on my carving boards. Tried it out on my party platter and it was not great. Could have been that opening day snow too. It was way too easy to over flex the board with ++ and my heelsides kept turning into wheelies.


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## Kijima (Mar 3, 2019)

MrDavey2Shoes said:


> It was way too easy to over flex the board with ++ and my heelsides kept turning into wheelies.


Maybe try a wider stance, and if you found yourself too much in the back seat widen the stance by moving the front binding forward and leaving the back where it is.


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## MrDavey2Shoes (Mar 5, 2018)

Kijima said:


> Maybe try a wider stance, and if you found yourself too much in the back seat widen the stance by moving the front binding forward and leaving the back where it is.


I think I only took it in about an inch from my normal duck stance. Pretty sure the biggest factor was the white ribbon of death created entirely of fake snow. Not ideal even with my normal stance. That snow gives way underneath your edge when you drive a tighter radius turn. A few euro carves resulted in belly flops. Smile inducing frustration at its finest. Got to find the humor in it, Yno?

Toward the end of the day I found a rhythm in tucking my back knee behind my front. Which you can’t do nearly as effectively duck. (I am now prepared to admit this) It was an eye opening discovery. Much easier to involve the back leg earlier in turns. Unfortunately it was my last run.

I’m really looking forward to ++ on my Sims. That’s gonna be a rocket.

Edit: it was also my first day out on Now IPO bindings which are way softer than I’m used to.


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## NT.Thunder (Jan 4, 2020)

The OneWheel is realy handy to try different angles and I'll be keen to see how close it may be especially in terms of +/+ for carving. The other good thing with thw OneWheel is the ability to ride it switch and again how angles affect this. I ride switch a bit so will probably only be running +/+ on the surfari.


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## Kijima (Mar 3, 2019)

MrDavey2Shoes said:


> I think I only took it in about an inch from my normal duck stance. Pretty sure the biggest factor was the white ribbon of death created entirely of fake snow. Not ideal even with my normal stance. That snow gives way underneath your edge when you drive a tighter radius turn. A few euro carves resulted in belly flops. Smile inducing frustration at its finest. Got to find the humor in it, Yno?
> 
> Toward the end of the day I found a rhythm in tucking my back knee behind my front. Which you can’t do nearly as effectively duck. (I am now prepared to admit this) It was an eye opening discovery. Much easier to involve the back leg earlier in turns. Unfortunately it was my last run.
> 
> ...


I put myself out for about 10 days last season after sinking in to a soft groomer like that at max speed lol. Be wary

The back knee tucking in is where its at man, note how much hip rotation you can achieve when the knee is tucked in as opposed to when you have a duck foot. 
Welcome to the rabbit hole lol


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## Kijima (Mar 3, 2019)

NT.Thunder said:


> The OneWheel is realy handy to try different angles and I'll be keen to see how close it may be especially in terms of +/+ for carving. The other good thing with thw OneWheel is the ability to ride it switch and again how angles affect this. I ride switch a bit so will probably only be running +/+ on the surfari.


Two skillsets are better than one.


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## GWoman (Oct 2, 2017)

It’s all preference. I started my journey with +15/-15, +18/-9, +21/-9, +21/-6, +18/-12 and now +18/-15.
I don’t like the back foot at 0 because from my experience with my beginner friends they all don’t like having the back foot pointed straight. I always start with somewhere between +15 to +18 for front foot and -9 to -12 for back foot.
Or you can always try the +15/0 then just change the back foot as you see fit to make it simple.
See what works best for you.


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## Easyrider17 (Oct 9, 2020)

I have +30 +6 on the freeride deck, +24 0 on the powder deck, and +15 -9 on the twin for switch. I've been playing around with stance the last couple of years and I really like the positive angles for freeride now. It's definitely nice to try different stances, but be sure to change one thing at a time or you'll have more trouble dialing it in. Oh ad don't ride with skiers when you do experiment. They hate your freedom.


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## WigMar (Mar 17, 2019)

Kijima said:


> Try more angle on the front too.
> +36 +24, get used to being heavy on the back foot just bending the front knee to achieve forward weighting and focus on keeping hips parallel to the board when riding lazily.


I tried this yesterday. I showed up at the mountain set up at +36 +24 and left it that way even though it was really really weird. I added 6 degrees to my front foot and 15 degrees to my back foot to get there, and I could totally feel it. Here's a couple of initial observations:

Pros- the back knee tucks in a lot with a relief of twisting pressure to the inside of the knee. I've been afraid of hitting my back knee on bumps in the snow, and now it's tucked safely over the board. There's a different sense of power from this position too- back foot heavy feeling. Front knee steering is very effective, and fore aft weighting is pretty easy. The stance favors heelside carves and is rotation friendly. 

Cons- learning curve. Angulation was more difficult. This was really apparent skating around one footed. My first time getting off the lift was a little shaky, but I was on first chair so no one really saw it lol. Lifting my toes didn't raise the toe edge nearly as much as usual. I tried to turn and kept going more or less straight. It's probably more of a side to side motion now. I felt less stable until I figured out how weighting was different; didn't even try any ollies or the like. Switch felt like it did years ago.

I'm going to give it a few more days to see if I can get comfortable like this. Maybe I should have worked towards these angles instead of just jumping in. Things are different, and it kind of sucks to feel like a noob again. Such is the price of progress.


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## Kijima (Mar 3, 2019)

WigMar said:


> I tried this yesterday. I showed up at the mountain set up at +36 +24 and left it that way even though it was really really weird. I added 6 degrees to my front foot and 15 degrees to my back foot to get there, and I could totally feel it. Here's a couple of initial observations:
> 
> Pros- the back knee tucks in a lot with a relief of twisting pressure to the inside of the knee. I've been afraid of hitting my back knee on bumps in the snow, and now it's tucked safely over the board. There's a different sense of power from this position too- back foot heavy feeling. Front knee steering is very effective, and fore aft weighting is pretty easy. The stance favors heelside carves and is rotation friendly.
> 
> ...


Push your front hip toe side to keep it parallel to the board and that weirdness when skating etc. will be gone. Some awareness of how the angle of your hips has changed is all you need there.

Now you know how strong the autopilot is with muscle memory lol. It takes some breaking, but new muscle memories will form.
2 years ago I was +18 -18 duck, now I am +48 +36 and it feels totally natural.

Instead of trying to tilt the board, just tilt your body and the board will follow. There is no need to try and force the board to do anything, it is your trailer and will follow the angle of the bottom of your boots.
Duck stance with forward lean makes it possible to get a small amount of board tilt from the knee down and thats how most snowboarders ride.
FF stance with no forward lean means you need to tilt your body to get the board to tilt, but many good things come of that.

Ps I don't like using angulation and inclination terms because it confuses so many people so I talk board and body tilt


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## Kijima (Mar 3, 2019)

Here is your battle plan Mr Wig.
Parallel hips when doing anything other than carving.
To turn heel side, open the front knee, sit on the ground and rotate upper body and you will do your first lay down heel turn. 

That should keep you busy for a few weeks lol.


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## Easyrider17 (Oct 9, 2020)

Interesting, I thought the forward stance actually favored toe side carving more than heel side. In fact, having ridden duck for most of my snowboarding career, heel side is what felt most squirrelly to me when I tried a forward stance. Since both knees were in line it was easier for me to pressure that toe side, but I felt a little off balance on heel side without my feet splayed. Once I got used to it though it became really comfortable. Of course my forward stance isn't that far forward, +30 +6, and the angles between my feet remain constant at 24 degrees regardless of whether I'm duck (+15 -9) or forward.


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## Kijima (Mar 3, 2019)

Easyrider17 said:


> Interesting, I thought the forward stance actually favored toe side carving more than heel side. In fact, having ridden duck for most of my snowboarding career, heel side is what felt most squirrelly to me when I tried a forward stance. Since both knees were in line it was easier for me to pressure that toe side, but I felt a little off balance on heel side without my feet splayed. Once I got used to it though it became really comfortable. Of course my forward stance isn't that far forward, +30 +6, and the angles between my feet remain constant at 24 degrees regardless of whether I'm duck (+15 -9) or forward.


By changing your stance like you did you open up some new possiblities in the body/board relationship but by maintaining the same 24 degree separation you don't open up more possibilities in the way your body can physically move, the positions you can achieve are still the same as before.

I think to really enjoy what FF stance can offer we need to capitalize on both aspects.

Another thing is that when you squat with FF stance you actually shift weight rearward so it's important to get quite forward at the the start of the turn knowing that as you squat you automatically move backward. 
When you squat in duck stance you stay centered. There really are a lot of subtle differences in the way our bodies move when that back foot turns forward.


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## Scalpelman (Dec 5, 2017)

Kijima said:


> By changing your stance like you did you open up some new possiblities in the body/board relationship but by maintaining the same 24 degree separation you don't open up more possibilities in the way your body can physically move, the positions you can achieve are still the same as before.
> 
> I think to really enjoy what FF stance can offer we need to capitalize on both aspects.


I’m at +24 +6 on my carving boards. My toe turns are smooth as butter but heelside can get a little choppy at speed—I’m always at speed. [emoji23]

I also have a fairly wide stance 23”. Just like to get low and the stance helps. Any recommendations for angle stance mods for improving the heelside?


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## Kijima (Mar 3, 2019)

Scalpelman said:


> I’m at +24 +6 on my carving boards. My toe turns are smooth as butter but heelside can get a little choppy at speed—I’m always at speed. [emoji23]
> 
> I also have a fairly wide stance 23”. Just like to get low and the stance helps. Any recommendations for angle stance mods for improving the heelside?


I ride 62cm stance which is 24.4".
Being so wide is good because you have more leverage over the middle of the board, the bit that doesn't want to flex. The tips flex easy but the rider has to encourage flex between the feet and you can do that by bringing your back knee in for heel turns. My boards absolutely kill it in this department, built for flex between the feet.

Any time your board chops it is because you didn't keep it pressed hard into the snow, and I bet it's your front foot that chops out on you. Every time I see someone chopping out in a heel turn they usually have straight legs, when your legs are straight you have maxed out your available pressure. To squat more is the answer but that pushes a FF stance rider rearward too so you need to start off more forward.
I think if you over emphasize jumping forward into your heel turns, opening the front knee and going for the ol' sit down on the snow aka excessive squat you will be stacked heavily over the heel edge with lots of leg extension to spare, and that's what soaks up the chop.
Rotate and finish the turn on your back heel.

As for stance angles, the greater the separation the less rotation you are capable of, and rotation is key to finishing heel turns, so you could play with reducing that separation, knowing that you need to compensate when not carving by correcting the hip angle to keep it parallel to the board.

Get yourself a broomstick and put it across the line of your hips, note how the hip angle is controlled by the back foot angle and master the correction of it.

Also dial back your forward lean as far as possible, forward lean really is poison for getting low on heel turns. To achieve perfection in lay down heel turns your boot needs to be at an obtuse angle off the board and forward lean forces an acute angle, when you get to this level you need to start thinking about keeping low board angles.


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## Easyrider17 (Oct 9, 2020)

Kijima said:


> Another thing is that when you squat with FF stance you actually shift weight rearward so it's important to get quite forward at the the start of the turn knowing that as you squat you automatically move backward.
> When you squat in duck stance you stay centered. There really are a lot of subtle differences in the way our bodies move when that back foot turns forward.


Took me a few reads but wow, you're totally right. I'm sure I felt squirrelly heel side because when I squatted it shifted my weight rearward. Getting my weight forward is what I did (without really thinking about it) to compensate. Now that I know, I can work on this further. Thanks.

Sent from my VS995 using Tapatalk


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## Kijima (Mar 3, 2019)

Easyrider17 said:


> Took me a few reads but wow, you're totally right. I'm sure I felt squirrelly heel side because when I squatted it shifted my weight rearward. Getting my weight forward is what I did (without really thinking about it) to compensate. Now that I know, I can work on this further. Thanks.
> 
> Sent from my VS995 using Tapatalk


To start a heel turn throw yourself waaaaaay forward with your upper body still rotated for the end of the toe turn, squat way low and then begin the upper body rotation for heel turn.
Keeping your shoulders rotated as they were when you finished the toe turn gets your butt forward.
Try that in your house, the FF stance sends your butt to the back, but rotate shoulders and it sends your butt to the front as you squat.


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## Scalpelman (Dec 5, 2017)

Kijima said:


> I ride 62cm stance which is 24.4".
> Being so wide is good because you have more leverage over the middle of the board, the bit that doesn't want to flex. The tips flex easy but the rider has to encourage flex between the feet and you can do that by bringing your back knee in for heel turns. My boards absolutely kill it in this department, built for flex between the feet.
> 
> Any time your board chops it is because you didn't keep it pressed hard into the snow, and I bet it's your front foot that chops out on you. Every time I see someone chopping out in a heel turn they usually have straight legs, when your legs are straight you have maxed out your available pressure. To squat more is the answer but that pushes a FF stance rider rearward too so you need to start off more forward.
> ...


Yeah I’ve been noticing that I don’t really need forward lean. It just limits my motion over the board. I think my problem is too much in the backseat. Still working out the timing of weight transfer fore and aft. I feel like I’m in the front seat but maybe I get back too early in the progression through the turn. I feel that I’m already weight forward but I’ll have to pay more attention. Anyway thanks for the info. Truly appreciated. 

I think I’ll try to make a less separated angle by advancing the rear from +6 to +12 on my carving decks. Pumped to get back on the piste!

One more thing. I notice that my front foot is a bit diagonal in the binding. Like it wants to be +27-30. Hmmmm.


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## Kijima (Mar 3, 2019)

Scalpelman said:


> Yeah I’ve been noticing that I don’t really need forward lean. It just limits my motion over the board. I think my problem is too much in the backseat. Still working out the timing of weight transfer fore and aft. I feel like I’m in the front seat but maybe I get back too early in the progression through the turn. I feel that I’m already weight forward but I’ll have to pay more attention. Anyway thanks for the info. Truly appreciated.
> 
> I think I’ll try to make a less separated angle by advancing the rear from +6 to +12 on my carving decks. Pumped to get back on the piste!
> 
> One more thing. I notice that my front foot is a bit diagonal in the binding. Like it wants to be +27-30. Hmmmm.


No problem man, I am very happy to help. I want to get to the bottom of this black magic hoohaa we call turning lol.

Stop thinking about moving your body over the board to weight fore/aft and start thinking about moving the board under your body to achieve the same result. When you do it like that you gain stability of body.
Go back and watch that last vid I posted, the part where I weight completely on my back foot and simply bend the front knee to achieve forward weighting. Not only does it work a charm but it gives you rock solid evidence you can use to assess your turns on the fly.
The front knee is always bent to start a turn and always straight to finish a turn. Thats all you ever need to know about fore/aft weighting.

Your front foot is sending you a message, listen to it. Just keep your bindings flush on the heel side no matter what angle you end up using and everything will be roses.


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## Snowdaddy (Feb 2, 2018)

WigMar said:


> Cons- learning curve. Angulation was more difficult. This was really apparent skating around one footed. My first time getting off the lift was a little shaky, but I was on first chair so no one really saw it lol. Lifting my toes didn't raise the toe edge nearly as much as usual. I tried to turn and kept going more or less straight. It's probably more of a side to side motion now. I felt less stable until I figured out how weighting was different; didn't even try any ollies or the like. Switch felt like it did years ago.


Increasing forward angles is going to make a negative impact on your leverage over the board. Lots of forward angle makes narrower boards more sensible.

I'm thinking about decreasing my forward angle on my front foot this year. At least on my wider boards.


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## MrDavey2Shoes (Mar 5, 2018)

I hate forward lean lol. @Kijima when you say start with parallel hips, parallel to what?


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## Kijima (Mar 3, 2019)

MrDavey2Shoes said:


> I hate forward lean lol. @Kijima when you say start with parallel hips, parallel to what?


Parallel to the board which is automatic with duck stance but requires rider input with FF stance.


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## Scalpelman (Dec 5, 2017)

@Kijima A-ha! You’re right. Rotation at the shoulders is the key with forward angles and weight balance. Squat test is real. Need to test this out on the hill. Damn work getting in the way again.....


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## MrDavey2Shoes (Mar 5, 2018)

Kijima said:


> Parallel to the board which is automatic with duck stance but requires rider input with FF stance.


I think I’m misunderstanding this. So in FF both my toes are oriented toward the nose of the board it would require me to rotate (twist?) toward the back of the board to make my hips parallel with the board.


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## Kijima (Mar 3, 2019)

Scalpelman said:


> @Kijima A-ha! You’re right. Rotation at the shoulders is the key with forward angles and weight balance. Squat test is real. Need to test this out on the hill. Damn work getting in the way again.....


If you go to the very first post in my thread I was trying to describe exactly this. 
You gotta be fully rotated for toe side completion, flip your body over to heel edge, sit on the snow and begin heel side rotation, add your squeeze, making sure to keep your head low. 
Seriously anyone who can sit in a chair can do lay down heel turns, it's easier than toe side.


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## Kijima (Mar 3, 2019)

MrDavey2Shoes said:


> I think I’m misunderstanding this. So in FF both my toes are oriented toward the nose of the board it would require me to rotate (twist?) toward the back of the board to make my hips parallel with the board.


I think you are on the right track man. 
Seriously pick up a broomstick and hold it at your waist, touching both hips. 
Put your feet in duck stance and note the direction the broomstick is pointing, then turn your back foot to FF and not how that angle just changed and is now pointing 30 degrees or so heel side. This angle change helps heel turns 1000% but will make shit feel strange when you first try big angle FF and when you are riding lazily. I think it scares off 99% of peeps who play with FF. 

So the solution is to 
A. Be aware of it's existence and 
B. Correct the angle of the hips when not carving which becomes your new normal resting position on a snowboard. 

The way I correct my hip alignment is by pushing my front butt cheek toe side and my back butt cheek heel side. Broomstick will highlight the effectiveness of your action.


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## MrDavey2Shoes (Mar 5, 2018)

Thanks dude, I didn’t realize you meant parallel for a resting or static position. I was super confused! I’m back on track.


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## Kijima (Mar 3, 2019)

I just set up this 28cm waist Taiyaki for myself and the numbers came out to be +39 +27 with US10/28cm boots.


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## robotfood99 (Mar 19, 2016)

Kijima said:


> The way I correct my hip alignment is by pushing my front butt cheek toe side and my back butt cheek heel side.


Good stuff. Had me squirming in my car seat and then had to explain that I was not farting silently to fellow car occupants.


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## WigMar (Mar 17, 2019)

I made some real progress yesterday at 36, 24. Had my best toeside carve to date, and my deepest if not smoothest heelsides too. A couple of heelsides were leaving surprisingly deep trenches. There's a lot of weight and power stacked over the rear heel when you're crouched at the end of the turn. Throwing weight forward at the beginning of turns was a good tip, as was increasing body tilt.


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## WigMar (Mar 17, 2019)

Kijima said:


> I just set up this 28cm waist Taiyaki for myself and the numbers came out to be +39 +27 with US10/28cm boots.
> View attachment 155756


I love the lack of highbacks. It's the opposite of forward lean. I ride the softest highbacks around, but I'd like to try this too. Are those Katanas?


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## Kijima (Mar 3, 2019)

WigMar said:


> I made some real progress yesterday at 36, 24. Had my best toeside carve to date, and my deepest if not smoothest heelsides too. A couple of heelsides were leaving surprisingly deep trenches. There's a lot of weight and power stacked over the rear heel when you're crouched at the end of the turn. Throwing weight forward at the beginning of turns was a good tip, as was increasing body tilt.


Good stuff!


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## Kijima (Mar 3, 2019)

WigMar said:


> I love the lack of highbacks. It's the opposite of forward lean. I ride the softest highbacks around, but I'd like to try this too. Are those Katanas?


These are nows with burton straps, on my pow board I have katanas with 2" highbacks that I cut down myself. 
I am prepping for my first day out today. Nozawa Onsen opening day!!!


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## robotfood99 (Mar 19, 2016)

Kijima said:


> These are nows with burton straps, on my pow board I have katanas with 2" highbacks that I cut down myself.
> I am prepping for my first day out today. Nozawa Onsen opening day!!!


I have my Now Recons with highcups at 30/12 this week. So far so good but have not been on the real steeps yet.


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## Kijima (Mar 3, 2019)

robotfood99 said:


> I have my Now Recons with highcups at 30/12 this week. So far so good but have not been on the real steeps yet.


Don't get me wrong, I think highbacks are good in dangerous terrain, but for the type of carving we are trying to do they are bad news, causing high board angles which we need to avoid


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## Kijima (Mar 3, 2019)

I took that Taiyaki out today with no highbacks. It's crowded and snowing, hard to make out bumps etc and not having highbacks sucks in these conditions where sideslipping is mandatory. Save it for days that are perfect for carving.


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## Easyrider17 (Oct 9, 2020)

So one thing I am finding with a 30 degree angle on my front foot is lateral knee pain. I did have a slight strain in that area while training pre season, but I don't feel nearly as much pain with a 15 degree front foot angle. looked up a bunch of pro rider stances and nobody that I could find had a forward foot angle greater than 24 degrees. Given my riding in this stance is mainly aggressive freeride, I think I'm going to dial back my forward binding angle and see how it goes.

Sent from my VS995 using Tapatalk


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## Paxford (Jan 7, 2019)

@Kijima this kicks ass, thank you. Had a great day carving icey greens and blues which usually aren’t that much fun. Jumps have me worried though. I’m hoping as I correct my hips to be parallel with the board jumps will settle in.


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## MrDavey2Shoes (Mar 5, 2018)

I've not gotten on snow yet but I've taken to walking everywhere at a 30 degree angle for practice. Dog has followed suit, wife is still approaching all obstacles head on. Her resolve weakens.


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## Rip154 (Sep 23, 2017)

MrDavey2Shoes said:


> I've not gotten on snow yet but I've taken to walking everywhere at a 30 degree angle for practice. Dog has followed suit, wife is still approaching all obstacles head on. Her resolve weakens.


I think this deserves a vid.


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## Kijima (Mar 3, 2019)

I had 30cm powder yesterday with my regular FF angles and went ok, I was pow surfing by only squaring my hips and then relaxing. 
Today Im squaring up my back foot to see the difference.


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## NT.Thunder (Jan 4, 2020)

MrDavey2Shoes said:


> I've not gotten on snow yet but I've taken to walking everywhere at a 30 degree angle for practice. Dog has followed suit, wife is still approaching all obstacles head on. Her resolve weakens.


😂 Forum Gold!


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## Kijima (Mar 3, 2019)

The square back foot is much beter for pow toe side. 
This board kills it in the pow + in the chop after the pow.


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## Scalpelman (Dec 5, 2017)

Kijima said:


> View attachment 155779
> 
> The square back foot is much beter for pow toe side.
> This board kills it in the pow + in the chop after the pow.


That’s the ticket. Lots of good pow boards out there but IMO it’s the ability of the board to handle the late morning chop that differentiates a good resort pow board for me.


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## Kijima (Mar 3, 2019)

Scalpelman said:


> That’s the ticket. Lots of good pow boards out there but IMO it’s the ability of the board to handle the late morning chop that differentiates a good resort pow board for me.


I went stiffer with this board through the nose and between the feet and it really paid off.


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## NT.Thunder (Jan 4, 2020)

Kijima said:


> I took that Taiyaki out today with no highbacks. It's crowded and snowing, hard to make out bumps etc and not having highbacks sucks in these conditions where sideslipping is mandatory. Save it for days that are perfect for carving.
> 
> View attachment 155760


Is that a new gondola?


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## rayt100 (Aug 29, 2016)

Kijima said:


> I took that Taiyaki out today with no highbacks. It's crowded and snowing, hard to make out bumps etc and not having highbacks sucks in these conditions where sideslipping is mandatory. Save it for days that are perfect for carving.
> 
> View attachment 155760


I'm so peanut butter... and jelly


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## rayt100 (Aug 29, 2016)

Kijima said:


> View attachment 155779
> 
> The square back foot is much beter for pow toe side.
> This board kills it in the pow + in the chop after the pow.


What angle is your back binding?


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## Kijima (Mar 3, 2019)

NT.Thunder said:


> Is that a new gondola?


You bet a 12 seater with an interior that could be out of a speed boat, its ritzy AF lol but the downside is that you have to line up in dumping snow rather than inside like he old gondola.


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## Kijima (Mar 3, 2019)

rayt100 said:


> What angle is your back binding?


Right now it's at zero which I was happy with in the pow and it gave me enough upper body rotation for respectable heel turns in the choppy aftermath of a powder day so I am fairly happy with it. 
Actually it might save me from hurting my shoulder if I got carried away and went too deep in a heel turn in the wrong conditions. Last season I nearly ripped my arm off when it grabbed on some soft snow, I was laying it down when I shouldn't have been.


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## ridethecliche (Feb 27, 2019)

Scalpelman said:


> @Kijima A-ha! You’re right. Rotation at the shoulders is the key with forward angles and weight balance. Squat test is real. Need to test this out on the hill. Damn work getting in the way again.....


This kinda clicked for me when I was taking a lesson with my GF at jay. It's going to take till the end of the season to get that sensation again if today was any indication of how things are going to be this go around lol.


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

Scalpelman said:


> Hey all I’m just setting up my new Niche Pyre for the season. I usually ride pretty aggressively with +24/+6 angles on my freeride and carving set ups. But does anyone change up binding angles for different boards/conditions? Coming from the NE, I don’t have a lot of experience with big pow dumps.  I was thinking of backing off to 18/0 for my pow board.


Nope.

+25 +5 and 560mm width all the time. 
Becomes +24 +6 on non EST bindings.


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