# Weatherproof Ratings? 10,000mm vs 2L



## ebfootball139 (Jan 19, 2017)

Sorry if this is a dumb question but just getting back into snowboarding. 
When I quite, most waterproof ratings were base off of mm's like; 5000mm, 10000mm, etc...
Now I see Gore-Tex Jackets that say 2L, 2.5L, etc... is that a waterproof rating? is that specific to Gore-Tex?
What should I be looking for in a new jacket?

Thanks


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## jae (Nov 27, 2015)

depends where you ride. if you're a normal resort rider 10k/10k is fine. park rats wear cotton.. lol. if you're planning on riding in the rain or a blizzard 20k+. 

2L 2.5L 3L is the layers


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## Sons of Thunder (Mar 24, 2015)

https://www.sagaouterwear.com/collections/pants/products/anomie-2l-bib-pant

I just got these bibs. 15k/10k (waterproofing/breathability) 2L. 3L would be the last layer of insulation and I'm guessing 1L (is that even a thing?) would be just the shell.


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## ridinbend (Aug 2, 2012)

5k-20k water resistant
2L-3L waterproof


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## dave785 (Jan 21, 2016)

The L, as far as I know, has more to do with durability than with waterproofing. A 3L jacket has more shit that has to be pierced by trees and shit before it starts leaking. If you do lots of tree runs (or park) look at 3L stuff. It'll last longer and deal with tiny holes better.


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## f00bar (Mar 6, 2014)

Alright! 3 for 3. 3 different responses, 3 different answers


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## robotfood99 (Mar 19, 2016)

L refers to layers of fabric that sandwich the waterproof membrane/laminate. 2L means it has an outer and inner fabric bonded to the membrane. 3L has an additional layer usually between the membrane and the inner fabric. 1L makes little sense as it would mean the membrane would be exposed on one side, probably resulting in poor performance and comfort.


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## jae (Nov 27, 2015)

robotfood99 said:


> L refers to layers of fabric that sandwich the waterproof membrane/laminate. 2L means it has an outer and inner fabric bonded to the membrane. 3L has an additional layer usually between the membrane and the inner fabric. 1L makes little sense as it would mean the membrane would be exposed on one side, probably resulting in poor performance and comfort.


idk how to like on mobile, but this


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## basser (Sep 18, 2015)

jae said:


> idk how to like on mobile, but this


No worries, I gotchu.


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## TLN (Sep 7, 2010)

L stands for layers. 
mm in waterproofness/breathabiliy. Goretex considered to be 28000/28000 or above.

There's different versions of goretex also: goretex 2L, goretex and goretex pro.And even more: there was goretex proshell, it's different from goretex pro, and it's whats called now goretex.

If you have money: get Arcteryx, goretex or gtx pro. I got pro before (rush), now I have regular (tantalus): it's a bit warmer because of fleece backer, and definately less breathable (I can notice that), but I can live with that.


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## ridinbend (Aug 2, 2012)

The difference between 2L and 3L is 3"layer" has an inner brushed lining/layer that covers the membrane. In a 2"layer" shell the membrane is the inner layer of the jacket and generally requires a loose liner so the membrane doesn't stick to your skin. Both have membranes, both are waterproof. When it comes to durability, the Gore Tex outer layer fabrics vary in production strength and generally has a description of denier. The higher the denier, the more durable.

http://www.gore-tex.com/en-us/technology/gore-tex-laminate

http://www.gore-tex.com/en-us/technology/outerwear/gore-tex-pro-products?xcmp=url_com_pro


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## robotfood99 (Mar 19, 2016)

Btw, the L thing isn't specific to Goretex only. Other mfgs will use membranes from other makers (Hipora, Dermizax, etc) but essentially layer the membranes the same way. So when you see non-Gore fabrics with 2/3L labeling, it is referring to the fabric construction, not waterproof rating. They are accompanied by waterproof ratings like 10k or 20k. Goretex doesn't list ratings, only a guarantee to keep you dry, mostly due to branding/marketing reasons. Other fabrics can't claim this because patent and shit like that, iirc. 

So a non-Goretex 2L does not mean same performance as Goretex 2L. Something with 2L 15k rating is about 13k less than Goretex 2L, which is a pretty significant gap.


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## TLN (Sep 7, 2010)

robotfood99 said:


> So a non-Goretex 2L does not mean same performance as Goretex 2L. Something with 2L 15k rating is about 13k less than Goretex 2L, which is a pretty significant gap.


Well, that's obvious that L- number have nothing to do with waterproofness. It have some correlation with breathability. 
Personally, if you're not doing any serious backcountry - you don't really care about breathability. If you do - you probably know more, then 90% of forum members here.

But generally speaking: more Layers in membrane = less breathability. Yes, you can notice breathability. You can buy pure goretex pieces (say 1L), but those are designed for running, not crushing through trees.


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