# Small & Stiff?



## Snow Hound (Jul 21, 2012)

Found a sweet deal on some NOS Salomon F22s. They're the same size as my Synapses only they're not. Too damn small! WTF! What other small footprint freeride boots should I be looking at?


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## Argo (Feb 25, 2010)

"Small and stiff" 

That's what she said.


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## tonicusa (Feb 27, 2008)

Nike has a more compact fit. Love my Kaijus


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## ThredJack (Mar 18, 2014)

Burton seems to be doing the "smaller footprint, bigger size" boots a lot lately. I know my Invaders I just bought are an 8.5, and have like a 7.5 footprint. They use that tech in other boots as well, might want to check some out.


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## Mizu Kuma (Apr 13, 2014)

tonicusa said:


> Nike has a more compact fit. Love my Kaijus


Love my DK's, but they've got a bigger footprint than my old Vans!!!!!

And my old Vans were bigger than my old DC's!!!!!


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## Tatanka Head (Jan 13, 2014)

What size boot do you typically wear? I have big feet and Ride seemed to have the best reduction among the boots I looked at. The F22s were big. K2s were alright. My old deeluxes were fine, but packed out way quick.


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## Snow Hound (Jul 21, 2012)

My feet aren't big, US 9, just at the point between M & L with most binding brands. Was planning on having SL/Cartel/Synapse for all mountain and PYL/Drive/something a bit stiffer for freeride. I don't really 'need' new boots but it's off season, trip 1 is booked, what the hell else am I to worry about?


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## Argo (Feb 25, 2010)

Just remember that reduced footprints don't always mean the boot body is drastically smaller, get your hands On them to compare.....


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## tonicusa (Feb 27, 2008)

The Kaiju have a more compact footprint than the Nike Danny Kass or the Burton Ion/Imperial. And they are a way better boot than the F22 in my personal opinion. The Burton Ion is a touch stiffer, but I prefer the Kaiju to the Ion. You might want to look into the Nike Lunarendor that just came out.


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## SGboarder (Jun 24, 2012)

tonicusa said:


> The Kaiju have a more compact footprint than the Nike Danny Kass or the Burton Ion/Imperial. And they are a way better boot than the F22 in my personal opinion. The Burton Ion is a touch stiffer, but I prefer the Kaiju to the Ion. You might want to look into the Nike Lunarendor that just came out.


Not true in my experience: I compared them when shopping for boots and the Burton ION and Imperial were more compact/had a smaller footprint than any of the Nike boots (including the Kaiju, which was the most compact Nike boot that I tried). 
The Burton Ambush is even smaller still.


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## Snow Hound (Jul 21, 2012)

tonicusa said:


> You might want to look into the Nike Lunarendor that just came out.


Yes that looks like the boot for me?... *Consults the interwebs* No but wait but how much? There is no way they are more than twice as good as my Synapse (the comfiest boots I ever tried). I think that the Kaiju are going to be softer than I want as well.


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## tonicusa (Feb 27, 2008)

SGboarder said:


> Not true in my experience: I compared them when shopping for boots and the Burton ION and Imperial were more compact/had a smaller footprint than any of the Nike boots (including the Kaiju, which was the most compact Nike boot that I tried).
> The Burton Ambush is even smaller still.



I own all three boots. And mainly use the Kaiju. When you can really tell about a boots "overall imprint" is when you use them over time in different bindings you own. Sometimes a boot can look narrower (Ion) but in reality wind up being bigger in other areas that affects the overall feel of a boot being smaller or more compact. The new Kaiju are also a touch bigger than the older ones with a slightly roomier toe box. One think I like about the Ion is that the toe box is almost indented or flat so that when you lift your toes up in a heel turn the boot responds sooner.


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## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

Nike's boots are garbage and bulky. The only boot that I haven't seen blow up is the Lunar but it's worth $300, not $400, and it's definitely not what I'd consider stiff.

Honestly the only stiff boots in a 9 you'd have to worry about with sizing are from Deeluxe, and maybe Celsius or Vans. Everybody else has caught up to this reduced footprint game.

Also typically with any F Series boot from Salomon you're going to size up a half size from what you'd wear in like a Synapse or Malamute.


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## tonicusa (Feb 27, 2008)

I put a 125 days on my Kaiju in one season and had to convince myself to buy a fresh pair. Definitely not garbage. I've never tried any other model by them. And they aren't bulky.

My Burton Ions and Imperials are not as well made as my Kaiju and not holding up as well either. I've got a bunch of buddies riding the Kaiju who love them too. You might not like the boot but definitely not garbage. My Salomon F22s? Garbage. Most every Burton boot I've owned "borderline".

I ride a lot of half pipe and park (jumps), and I prefer the lower cuff on the Kaiju compared to the Ion. I also ride with my feet a lot, so my riding style fits the Kaiju better than the slightly stiffer Ion. They are expensive like the Lunarendor but they get soft (80 days) before they fall apart. In fact I haven't had any deterioration with the Kaiju other than a speed lace breaking.

There are a bunch of Kaiju on geartrade right now and a few Lunarendor. If you can grab a pair for $200 area it's worth it all day.


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## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

I just can't believe your boots or all of your friends are really in that good a shape when nearly everyone I see come into my shop wearing Nike's they're boots are blown out, spine's creased, and seams blowing. And that's usually after 40 days. I guess if you just find smooshy cardboard boots perfect then go for it.

I'll give ya Burton's durability, yeah it's average. But Salomon? You had the one pair from what you've mentioned. Do you really think it makes sense to judge an entire brands line on one experience you had? Salomon's higher end boots and the F Series are some of the greatest constructed boots on the market.

Oh and the fact that you and "a bunch of buddies" all ride the same boot doesn't instill much confidence in your opinion. All I hear when you say that is "me and all my friends really like having swooshes on our snowboard boots" because of the few things Nike has going for them, universal fit is NOT one of them. They are the narrowest fit on my wall and too narrow for 90% of riders. Even then the only boots I have ever felt confident calling universal are K2's with Boa Conda. But then again I guess Nike's do blow out like 3/4 of a size so there's that. Cardboard liners do that.



tonicusa said:


> There are a bunch of Kaiju on geartrade right now and a few Lunarendor. If you can grab a pair for $200 area it's worth it all day.


 And now you're recommending used boots...


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## tonicusa (Feb 27, 2008)

I'm older now and don't work in a shop anymore. But when I did every retard in the world came through and it was ridiculous what they did to their gear. Half those kids don't know how to take care of their gear and wonder why you shouldn't skeech in snowboard boots. And lets be honest. If you know anything about the industry, shops carry the low end of lines today predominantly. So you are not seeing $300+ kaijus coming in blown out anymore than I should generalize about the Salomon line. (you're right, they make some good gear, love my Holograms and Quantums)

I'm older now and can afford to ride 100+ days a year. I have friends that own shops and work in the industry so I get a lot of gear and can actually spend 20 days on something. I also have a lot of "friends" who are in their 30s and 40s that work in the industry. They all rip and could wear Sorrels, but I always find it interesting why guys choose the gear they do. I've noticed my "carving" shred head buddies who love to just bomb, go fast, and ride boardercross have an affinity for Salomons stiffest boot I forget what it's called. My F22s were very poorly made and turned to slop way before the Kaiju (which it's clear you've never owned by the way). My group of park buddies whom the majority of are all former competitors (because that's the only guys still riding park in their late 30s) wear Burton because they've always gotten them for free. And half these guys don't even lace them up all of the way.

I like the Kaiju because of the narrow fit, lower cuff, tight heel hold, small footprint, and they're durable. In my experience nobody makes a really high end super quality boot in the industry, but that's because there is almost no market for it, as you well know working in a shop. Everybody coming up wants everything for free or cheap, and the internet has made people super transactional.

Yes I'm recommending used boots from Backcountry that have been worn twice. You are better off buying a high quality boot thats been worn once than a brand new piece of crap.

The OP was looking for a narrow boot I thought. And all you have to do is read some posts here on the Kaijus and you will see that there is an overwhelming love for them.

I hope I was able to make my point without being douchey and taking any pot shots at you or your friends.


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## Snow Hound (Jul 21, 2012)

I'm actually looking to reduce the length a little rather than width. I know Salomons are supposed to run narrow and my feet are average/wide but I tried a lot of different boots on and the Synapse stood out comfort wise. I'm in Europe btw and can try some Northwave Decade SLs out. Reviews seem good?


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## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

tonicusa said:


> I'm older now and don't work in a shop anymore. But when I did every retard in the world came through and it was ridiculous what they did to their gear. Half those kids don't know how to take care of their gear and wonder why you shouldn't skeech in snowboard boots. And lets be honest. If you know anything about the industry, shops carry the low end of lines today predominantly. So you are not seeing $300+ kaijus coming in blown out anymore than I should generalize about the Salomon line. (you're right, they make some good gear, love my Holograms and Quantums)
> 
> I'm older now and can afford to ride 100+ days a year. I have friends that own shops and work in the industry so I get a lot of gear and can actually spend 20 days on something. I also have a lot of "friends" who are in their 30s and 40s that work in the industry. They all rip and could wear Sorrels, but I always find it interesting why guys choose the gear they do. I've noticed my "carving" shred head buddies who love to just bomb, go fast, and ride boardercross have an affinity for Salomons stiffest boot I forget what it's called. My F22s were very poorly made and turned to slop way before the Kaiju (which it's clear you've never owned by the way). My group of park buddies whom the majority of are all former competitors (because that's the only guys still riding park in their late 30s) wear Burton because they've always gotten them for free. And half these guys don't even lace them up all of the way.
> 
> ...


For 2015 I will be carrying the Ion, Kaiju, Malamute, Synapse Focus, 32 Focus, T1's, The Blauvelt (reluctantly), DC Lynx, and maybe the Rice. This last year our average boot price was something like $240 and our best selling models are usually the T1, Synapse, and Lashed. We do what we can to upsell to the TM2 from the Lashed, but the Lashed is the best selling snowboard boot after the Moto for a reason. For bindings we carry the Metafuse, Genesis EST, Flow GT's, and El Hefe's. All over $300. We deal high end gear. And no matter what testimonials you can give (saying that the Kaiju gets rave reviews on here is barely not worthless btw) they still use cardboard in the Lunar liners. That's coming from Lago himself. Not to mention the Nike boot plan was make something rideable for 4 years and if it does well, go back and design a boot that's actually worth riding. That's just started to happened with the Lunar. They need to fix their liner issues and realize there is nothing to warrant the $400 price tag on them and I'll be more inclined to back the product. Till then, I do what I can to NOT sell boots I have no faith in.


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## SGboarder (Jun 24, 2012)

tonicusa said:


> I'm older now and don't work in a shop anymore. But when I did every retard in the world came through and it was ridiculous what they did to their gear. Half those kids don't know how to take care of their gear and wonder why you shouldn't skeech in snowboard boots. And lets be honest. If you know anything about the industry, shops carry the low end of lines today predominantly. So you are not seeing $300+ kaijus coming in blown out anymore than I should generalize about the Salomon line. (you're right, they make some good gear, love my Holograms and Quantums)
> 
> I'm older now and can afford to ride 100+ days a year. I have friends that own shops and work in the industry so I get a lot of gear and can actually spend 20 days on something. I also have a lot of "friends" who are in their 30s and 40s that work in the industry. They all rip and could wear Sorrels, but I always find it interesting why guys choose the gear they do. I've noticed my "carving" shred head buddies who love to just bomb, go fast, and ride boardercross have an affinity for Salomons stiffest boot I forget what it's called. My F22s were very poorly made and turned to slop way before the Kaiju (which it's clear you've never owned by the way). My group of park buddies whom the majority of are all former competitors (because that's the only guys still riding park in their late 30s) wear Burton because they've always gotten them for free. And half these guys don't even lace them up all of the way.
> 
> ...


You sound a lot like hktrdr when he was still around.


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## Steezus Christ (Jul 29, 2013)

Nivek said:


> For 2015 I will be carrying the Ion, Kaiju, Malamute, Synapse Focus, 32 Focus, T1's, The Blauvelt (reluctantly), DC Lynx, and maybe the Rice. This last year our average boot price was something like $240 and our best selling models are usually the T1, Synapse, and Lashed. We do what we can to upsell to the TM2 from the Lashed, but the Lashed is the best selling snowboard boot after the Moto for a reason. For bindings we carry the Metafuse, Genesis EST, Flow GT's, and El Hefe's. All over $300. We deal high end gear. And no matter what testimonials you can give (saying that the Kaiju gets rave reviews on here is barely not worthless btw) they still use cardboard in the Lunar liners. That's coming from Lago himself. Not to mention the Nike boot plan was make something rideable for 4 years and if it does well, go back and design a boot that's actually worth riding. That's just started to happened with the Lunar. They need to fix their liner issues and realize there is nothing to warrant the $400 price tag on them and I'll be more inclined to back the product. Till then, I do what I can to NOT sell boots I have no faith in.


amen brother. i love how everyone likes to go against the retailer, claiming hes ripping you off when in reality they just want to sell a genuine product. its funny seeing them walk in a week later with boots they bought online and cry when they dont fit.


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## tonicusa (Feb 27, 2008)

SGboarder said:


> You sound a lot like hktrdr when he was still around.


If you don't like someone disagreeing with a post of yours, just be cool about it. It's a violation of forum policy to personally attack people because they disagree with you, and mainly it's just a punk move that ruins the forum for the rest of us and anyone new thinking about joining. You can be a fanboy of anyone you want on here. But nobody needs you fighting their battles. If you think the Ion is a smaller footprint than the Kaiju that's fine. My point was that it's hard to tell sometimes in my experience until you've used them for awhile. 

No one can stand the guy/kid who jumps on other peoples posts with a "you are 100% wrong". I hope I didn't do that to yours, and if you are active here you've got a responsibility to check your anger even when you feel like telling someone to F%$# Off..


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## Donutz (May 12, 2010)

tonicusa said:


> If you don't like someone disagreeing with a post of yours, just be cool about it. It's a violation of forum policy to personally attack people because they disagree with you, and mainly it's just a punk move that ruins the forum for the rest of us and anyone new thinking about joining. You can be a fanboy of anyone you want on here. But nobody needs you fighting their battles. If you think the Ion is a smaller footprint than the Kaiju that's fine. My point was that it's hard to tell sometimes in my experience until you've used them for awhile.
> 
> No one can stand the guy/kid who jumps on other peoples posts with a "you are 100% wrong". I hope I didn't do that to yours, and if you are active here you've got a responsibility to check your anger even when you feel like telling someone to F%$# Off..


FFS, I've gotten "reported post" emails from BOTH of you, complaining about the other. Step back and take a breath, people.


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## SGboarder (Jun 24, 2012)

tonicusa said:


> If you don't like someone disagreeing with a post of yours, just be cool about it. It's a violation of forum policy to personally attack people because they disagree with you, and mainly it's just a punk move that ruins the forum for the rest of us and anyone new thinking about joining. You can be a fanboy of anyone you want on here. But nobody needs you fighting their battles. If you think the Ion is a smaller footprint than the Kaiju that's fine. My point was that it's hard to tell sometimes in my experience until you've used them for awhile.
> 
> No one can stand the guy/kid who jumps on other peoples posts with a "you are 100% wrong". I hope I didn't do that to yours, and if you are active here you've got a responsibility to check your anger even when you feel like telling someone to F%$# Off..


I posted my personal observations from holding the boots side-by-side. And Nivek is a super experienced guy and also seems to speak from his experience.

Is it really necessary to be so aggressive towards people whose experiences do not match your opinion? Nobody attacked you personally, but you lash out at everybody who disagrees with you.


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## tonicusa (Feb 27, 2008)

All you have to do if you care about getting along with other shreds here is to read the thread. I never lashed out at you. I never made any derogatory remark towards you. You lost your cool and tossed a slur my way. You're in the wrong take it like a man and stop trying to speak for other people, it's a good lesson to learn in life. I was talking to Nivek and he had the intellect to handle our conversation without calling people names. But you still need the last word and can't seem to handle it with any class.


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## Mizu Kuma (Apr 13, 2014)




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## SGboarder (Jun 24, 2012)

tonicusa said:


> All you have to do if you care about getting along with other shreds here is to read the thread. I never lashed out at you. I never made any derogatory remark towards you. You lost your cool and tossed a slur my way. You're in the wrong take it like a man and stop trying to speak for other people, it's a good lesson to learn in life. I was talking to Nivek and he had the intellect to handle our conversation without calling people names. But you still need the last word and can't seem to handle it with any class.


The moderator suggest that we give it a rest, so I will do that. 

But before I leave this thread but I want to clarify one thing: I never intended to toss a slur at you and I sure do not think I did. I am not angry (no matter what you think) and I definitely did not attack you personally.

My first post addressed the question/topic of the thread. I hope it was useful.
My second post was on your aggressive style of engaging in the discussion. 
The last two posts (including this one) have just been in response to you attacking people/me. That is not helping anybody.

If you want to continue to fight a forum war, be my guest. I am out.


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## Mizu Kuma (Apr 13, 2014)




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## tonicusa (Feb 27, 2008)

SGboarder said:


> The moderator suggest that we give it a rest, so I will do that.
> 
> But before I leave this thread but I want to clarify one thing: I never intended to toss a slur at you and I sure do not think I did. I am not angry (no matter what you think) and I definitely did not attack you personally.
> 
> ...


Lol!! Telling me "I sound like Hkdtr" is a slam, we all know that. And it just wasn't necessary it wasn't even your conversation. It just reminded me of the kid in high school who wanted to jump into other people's fights. If you don't have anything nice to say don't. I had no beef with you. It amazed me that you felt the need to call me Hkdtr because of a civil conversation I was having with Nivek. Just totally uncalled for. I'm over it too. 

And my style of engaging in the conversation wasn't aggressive. Although you seem to want to portray it that way to justify your behavior. I too had a simple helpful post. Nivek joined in and made a couple comments which were aggressive by your standards and we traded points like big boys and it was over. You felt the need to jump in and take a shot at me. You're probably a pretty young guy so I don't want to make any more out of this either. 
Good luck to you.


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## Mizu Kuma (Apr 13, 2014)




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## tonicusa (Feb 27, 2008)

Lol!! Priceless


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## ThredJack (Mar 18, 2014)




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## chomps1211 (Mar 30, 2011)

Mizu Kuma said:


>


Hahaaahaha!!! Perfect!! Absolutely Perfect!! :thumbsup: :laugh:
That should be the standard gif for _*every*_ interwebz disagreement! :laugh:


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