# Toe caps Vs. Toe straps



## luke89

I was wondering which is better and why, toe caps or toe straps. I am trying to find a pair of union forces and the toe strap can be used as an over the toe strap or a toe cap. Ive never ridden caps and am wondering if they are better and if so why.


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## seant46

I find toe caps hold my boot in better and have a lot less pressure. The down side is if you already hang a lot of toe overhang toe caps can increase it a bit more. 
Flux toe caps:thumbsup:


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## Penguin

I like them better because it feels like my foot is being pushed back into the binding instead of down into the board.


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## luke89

I never really thought of it like that. You guys make good points. Sometimes my straps do put pressure on my foot but I thought i just had to live with it. If i get those unions the caps would be nice. Thanks for the info. Ill have to see about that overhang thing cuz i wear size 11s. The overhang isnt bad though. I really hope i can find those forces cuz it sounds really nice.


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## mysterl33

Penguin said:


> I like them better because it feels like my foot is being pushed back into the binding instead of down into the board.


this:thumbsup:


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## Jon T

I also like the the toe caps because I no longer have any pressure dirrectly on the top of my foot. I also think that the caps give you more control over your board. They allow you to have a little more leverage because the strap is further out on your boot. When you lift your toes to make a turn you don't need as much up pressure to do this. I believe more manufactures will be going to this type of system in the future. Either way, it sounds like you will have the chance to try both ways, so try both, and see what works for you.


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## Guest

Looks like toe caps are pulling off a major victory here. :thumbsup:

I also like toe caps for all of the reasons above (push your foot back into the heel, less pressure on the top of your toes)


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## mrpez

i prefer toe caps for the aforementioned reasons. look into ride EX 2010 bindings. the strap has a mesh-like design which can be easily used as a toe strap or toe cap based on what you want.


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## bbissell

I agree with the above toe caps rock!


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## NWBoarder

I have size 13's and I use '06 Cartels with caps. They don't increase my overhang in any noticeable way. You should be fine with 11's.


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## LTManiac

Well I'll be the first to say that I prefer straps over caps - reason being I feel more secure with straps. I don't get any pressure points and I'm just more comfortable using them over caps. I rode with caps for half a day, I just didn't like it, maybe it's a psychological thing. I ride Union Forces too.


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## linvillegorge

seant46 said:


> Flux toe caps:thumbsup:


:thumbsup:


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## Guest

luke89 said:


> ...the toe strap can be used as an over the toe strap or a toe cap.


try it both ways and decide for yourself?

i have bindings with a fat strap that can be used over or on my tow - there's no appreciable difference for me either way.

alasdair


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## rasmasyean

The toe cap is supposed to secure your boot against the heelcup vs. just holding your toes down. It also relieves pressure on your foot for some boots I guess. I believe there are 2 “original” toe cap designs that are patented. One is Burton’s, the other is Technine’s. Not sure what went on after the years since it’s been out. But I heard of and experienced some Burton caps coming loose. I think the problem is with some caps that go on top and arround toes. The caps that cup the tip are better I think, but this might give you more of that overhang problem if you have it. The double strap might be better because it can conform to different boots since it has a “hole” in it vs. the single cup imo.

Found some old threads on this but the designs may have changed a bit since then.
But maybe this can give you an idea on what to look for.
http://www.sierrasnowboard.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=5879
http://forums.outdoorreview.com/showthread.php?t=1251


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## rasmasyean

Oh btw, I also have that technine cap from that 2nd pic on that post. The one I got is rubber and they gave it to me when an old binding's toe straps lever return spring broke and they din't have any more toe straps. For my boot at least, I can tell you that that design secures pretty solid. I think it's both the combination of the hole and the rubber. And since the tip of my boot is rubber too, it locks onto it pretty tight.


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## Reede

Toe straps are for rental boards.


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## Leo

When I'm not using Flows, I prefer caps all the way. I'm not in the pressure points of straps.


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## stunt66

Overhang from a toe cap is not a concern from the bindings ive seen. The only real problem ive seen from my buddies burtons are they slide off while riding. I have the forum recons and theyre a really nice design because they have a reall deep pocket that has never come loose. I used to get so much pressure from my toe straps but it's all good now.


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## earl_je

Caps!

10char


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## DC5R

Caps for me as well.


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## Triple8Sol

I've been riding toecaps only ever since I got some Cartels back in '05, and won't ever go back.


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## Miles_K

Penguin said:


> I like them better because it feels like my foot is being pushed back into the binding instead of down into the board.


Same here.


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## AWNOW

stunt66 said:


> Overhang from a toe cap is not a concern from the bindings ive seen. The only real problem ive seen from my buddies burtons are they slide off while riding. I have the forum recons and theyre a really nice design because they have a reall deep pocket that has never come loose. I used to get so much pressure from my toe straps but it's all good now.


Burton is the only company I have heard of with the toe cap sliding issue. No idea why. :dunno:


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## crispynz1

I prefer toe caps by a large margin. As mentioned previously, the pressure factor. I used to get numb toes quite often when using straps. Also the toe caps pull my boot heel into heelcup & with a little lean forward set, really locks the boots & my feet in. :thumbsup:


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## rasmasyean

AWNOW said:


> Burton is the only company I have heard of with the toe cap sliding issue. No idea why. :dunno:


It's prolly in part due to that stupid leather luxurious crap. I would imagine the cold makes it change shape and get stiff and slippery too. Form over function. Looks "high quality" and gets your money.


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## Deviant

For those with the toe cap sliding, make sure when you have it tightened down the toe cap is flush and center with the boot. Have seen too many people where the toe cap is slightly off to one side and ends up slipping because there is less contact area on the boot, i.e. space between the strap on one side or the other.


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## luke89

thanks for all the input. I will definitely give the caps a try and be sure to center them. I actually was reading the manual on my freestyles and it says they can be caps too. Ive used them as straps because they arent that big and dont seem like theyd be good caps. But if I still have them next season ill give the caps a try. Hopefully i find some forces and can try some nice caps.


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## NWBoarder

BurtonX8 said:


> For those with the toe cap sliding, make sure when you have it tightened down the toe cap is flush and center with the boot. Have seen too many people where the toe cap is slightly off to one side and ends up slipping because there is less contact area on the boot, i.e. space between the strap on one side or the other.


+1 for this. The only time my Cartels cap slipped was for this exact reason. I knew it was a little off center, but decided to take the F it route and ride. End of the run when i unstrapped, my cap had slipped off. Not all the way, but most of the way. Been a little more careful about getting it on right and have never had it slip again.


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## fredericp64

Now this is probably going to sound like a retarded post but, my bindings feature a ''revert toe strap'' So I'm assuming I can do both. 

I have tried the caps option and felt kinda unsafe. Do you have to readjust the straps placements(screws, clips whatnot,wtv) before setting them up for the ''toe caps'' feature. Or can you alternate between cap and strap just like that?

I have Raiden Blackhawk bindings. 

http://www.sk8shop.ch/Bilder/Modell/5487/Artikel/26717/Standard_1.jpg

From my experience (minimal ) I was assuming toe caps was just a failed attempt at innovation, but you all seem to vouch otherwise lol

Thx for the help!!


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## sepdxsnwbrdr

Reede said:


> Toe straps are for rental boards.


You're a doosh


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## fredericp64

^^ I'm going snowboarding in like an hour, I'd really like to know. Anyone? 

thx


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## seant46

It's because those convertible ones that can go over top or on the toe suck. If you tried a real toe cap like flux or tech 9 they work good. I think flux has the beast toe cap i have ever tried.

EDIT: Those convertible ones don't have enough of a pocket for your boot to fit in so they can slip off. If you find a binding with a really deep toe cap they should stay on nice but then you cant wear them over the top if you change your mind. I however dont like them over the top so thats why flux toe caps works for me.


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## fredericp64

k right, thx for your response!!

Comparing it to real toe cups, I noticed that my strap wasn't very deep and/or wide. 

Do you know if the toe part is changeable? Like buying REAL toe cups for my bindings?


EDIT: just checked a Flux binding and I see EXACTLY what you're talking about. Nice.


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## seant46

I am not sure if you can get toe caps that are designed for that type of binding you would have to ask the company, but if not sometimes you can mix and match parts of different bindings(from different company's). If you bring your toe strap(not the toe cap the actual serrated strap the attaches it) to a shop and see which toe caps can fit with that type strap then you can call up that company and order some toe caps from them. They might not match but that's just an idea.


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## Gigglinpig

I find toe caps more responsive than toe straps ( own both types ). Everything just feels more snug, and I think it helps me a little on my toe side turns as well.


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## lisevolution

seant46 said:


> I am not sure if you can get toe caps that are designed for that type of binding you would have to ask the company, but if not sometimes you can mix and match parts of different bindings(from different company's). If you bring your toe strap(not the toe cap the actual serrated strap the attaches it) to a shop and see which toe caps can fit with that type strap then you can call up that company and order some toe caps from them. They might not match but that's just an idea.


You can definitely frakenstein bindings with other companies toe caps. I put Burton caps on an old set of Drake bindings a couple of years back and I'm sure it works with other too just have to see how they're connected. 

To the OP, I have Union Data's which are just a step above the forces from a couple of years ago and I just want you to be aware that with certain boots they slip all the time, with others they never slip. It all depends on the shape of the boots toe. I was using them with Nitro MFM boots and they had super round toe and it slipped up like every run. This past season I switched my boots to Nortwave Decade SL's with a much more square toe box and they didn't slip at all. That said even with the slippage, the Unions are still the best, most comfortable binding I've used so far and I've been riding over 13yrs now and have tried just about every brand out there. The rome and ride cap straps are both very good to because of the rubbery mesh they use now and I also know that Union has changed there toe cap design multiple times since I bought my Datas so the issue may indeed be resolved by now.


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## luke89

lisevolution said:


> You can definitely frakenstein bindings with other companies toe caps. I put Burton caps on an old set of Drake bindings a couple of years back and I'm sure it works with other too just have to see how they're connected.
> 
> To the OP, I have Union Data's which are just a step above the forces from a couple of years ago and I just want you to be aware that with certain boots they slip all the time, with others they never slip. It all depends on the shape of the boots toe. I was using them with Nitro MFM boots and they had super round toe and it slipped up like every run. This past season I switched my boots to Nortwave Decade SL's with a much more square toe box and they didn't slip at all. That said even with the slippage, the Unions are still the best, most comfortable binding I've used so far and I've been riding over 13yrs now and have tried just about every brand out there. The rome and ride cap straps are both very good to because of the rubbery mesh they use now and I also know that Union has changed there toe cap design multiple times since I bought my Datas so the issue may indeed be resolved by now.


I never really thought of that. I have burton boots and their not super round. I guess theyll fit. If not Its cool because im used to straps. But I definitley would prefer the caps now that ive heard all this good stuff about them. Thanks


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## SnowBrdScotty

lisevolution said:


> You can definitely frakenstein bindings with other companies toe caps. I put Burton caps on an old set of Drake bindings a couple of years back and I'm sure it works with other too just have to see how they're connected.
> 
> To the OP, I have Union Data's which are just a step above the forces from a couple of years ago and I just want you to be aware that with certain boots they slip all the time, with others they never slip. It all depends on the shape of the boots toe. I was using them with Nitro MFM boots and they had super round toe and it slipped up like every run. This past season I switched my boots to Nortwave Decade SL's with a much more square toe box and they didn't slip at all. That said even with the slippage, the Unions are still the best, most comfortable binding I've used so far and I've been riding over 13yrs now and have tried just about every brand out there. The rome and ride cap straps are both very good to because of the rubbery mesh they use now and I also know that Union has changed there toe cap design multiple times since I bought my Datas so the issue may indeed be resolved by now.


nope still the same. 09 rulers + 10 contacts. meh


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## Jiro

lisevolution said:


> You can definitely frakenstein bindings with other companies toe caps. I put Burton caps on an old set of Drake bindings a couple of years back and I'm sure it works with other too just have to see how they're connected.
> 
> To the OP, I have Union Data's which are just a step above the forces from a couple of years ago and I just want you to be aware that with certain boots they slip all the time, with others they never slip. It all depends on the shape of the boots toe. I was using them with Nitro MFM boots and they had super round toe and it slipped up like every run. This past season I switched my boots to Nortwave Decade SL's with a much more square toe box and they didn't slip at all. That said even with the slippage, the Unions are still the best, most comfortable binding I've used so far and I've been riding over 13yrs now and have tried just about every brand out there. The rome and ride cap straps are both very good to because of the rubbery mesh they use now and I also know that Union has changed there toe cap design multiple times since I bought my Datas so the issue may indeed be resolved by now.



As a matter of fact, UNION cap straps are getting worse. Been using Unions from year 1, and got Contact SL this year since the cap design changed with a hole in the center. Guess what, it fits worse than the convertible on Force! I use Rome cap strap set when using Force, works 100x better.


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## bubbachubba340

Toe straps are pretty non existant nowadays. Rome Cap strap FTW. It molds perfectly to any boot.


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## BliND KiNK

the toe cap on my cartels looks sketchy to me.. haven't used it yet though...

and my sweet chick citizens are like 2008 with straps.


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## SnowBrdScotty

bubbachubba340 said:


> Toe straps are pretty non existant nowadays. Rome Cap strap FTW. It molds perfectly to any boot.


:thumbsup:


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## lorcar

lisevolution said:


> I have Union Data's
> my boots to Nortwave Decade SL's



same setup here, but never tried it so far, got it a week ago. 
It seems ok, but I have a little gap between the rear boot and the highback. Did you modify the heelcup position? and the highback? thanks


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## BliND KiNK

lorcar said:


> same setup here, but never tried it so far, got it a week ago.
> It seems ok, but I have a little gap between the rear boot and the highback. Did you modify the heelcup position? and the highback? thanks


XD XD XD XD XD


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## Triple8Sol

As far as which ones are best, I have to say that Flux wins hands down. Closely followed by Rome and then Ride. Of course it's not like I've ridden all the others, just ones from Union, Burton, and Salomon, none of which were nearly as good as the first 3.


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## jputtho2

You wouldn't believe the amount of people that I have seen misuse the toe caps/cap straps...They go around the toe not over your foot. Sorry for the offtopic somewhat. hah


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## Reede

jputtho2 said:


> You wouldn't believe the amount of people that I have seen misuse the toe caps/cap straps...They go around the toe not over your foot. Sorry for the offtopic somewhat. hah


Heh yea thats kinda sad to see. Those are people who have probably just upgraded from shitty rental gear and dont know any better.


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## nzboardlife

i've been using romes hybird as a toe cap for the last 3 seasons


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## fredericp64

If toe caps are that good - which I don't doubt they are - why are there so few models available? Seems like most stores I look at mainly carry strap bindings. 

Unless I'm just looking for that deep cup that Flux features and mistakingly overlooking the other ones..


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## FLuiD

Cap style all the way...+1 on Rome's as being the best and Ride gummy one a close second. I like the Ride ones but don't like the buckle feel through them. It's easy to adjust around it though. The Rome's are just solid from day 1 on any boot!


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## CoopersTroopers

fredericp64 said:


> If toe caps are that good - which I don't doubt they are - why are there so few models available? Seems like most stores I look at mainly carry strap bindings.
> 
> Unless I'm just looking for that deep cup that Flux features and mistakingly overlooking the other ones..


Most manufacturers are going with the more flexible hybrid toe strap/cap designs. Wear it over the top or over the toe, depending on preference. They generally just look like strap bindings, but the middle is either cored out, or covered in a material that will stretch to wrap over your toe box. They're generally lighter than full on toe caps since they have less material. Arguably they might not act as well as a true toe cap, but such is the price of flexibility.


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## nzboardlife

fredericp64 said:


> If toe caps are that good - which I don't doubt they are - why are there so few models available? Seems like most stores I look at mainly carry strap bindings.
> 
> Unless I'm just looking for that deep cup that Flux features and mistakingly overlooking the other ones..


have a closer look at some of them, alot of them like the rome ones look like toe straps but if they are put in a toe cap position they will mould around the toe.


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## Liv4Sno

Toe caps. Just makes more more sense in relation to how a snowboarder uses heels and toes to edge. More leverage.


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## Guest

Liv4Sno said:


> Just makes more more sense in relation to how a snowboarder uses heels and toes to edge.


how does it make _more sense in relation to how a snowboarder uses heels and toes to edge_? care to expand?

alasdair


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## Reede

alasdairm said:


> how does it make _more sense in relation to how a snowboarder uses heels and toes to edge_? care to expand?
> 
> alasdair


More leverage.


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## $Lindz$

I ride with all my bindings as toe caps. But I have different bindings and different straps based on what I want for each board.

I have Ride Delta MVMNT binders for backcountry/all mountain. To me, that are stiff, responsive, light, comfortable, and they feel great with my Lib Tech Snow Mullet 1986.


For jibbing, I had Ride Contrabands, but then moved onto my Delta/Contraband Frankensteins. That worked a bit better for me as I was frustrated by the Contrabands after a season, but then I just got some Union Forces (the Cadets were too flexible for my liking, as were the Rome binders (let alone the weight of the Romes)).

But I don't like the Union toe straps. They didn't fit my boot well, so I got a shop to sell me the cap straps from a set of Burton Customs, and I broke out the bag of misc hardware and got those bad boys on the Unions. 

Very happy.

Along with that, I got a new board, a Nitro Sub Pop 152 for rails. The Jibstick is leaning up against my wall with no binders on right now. I love that board but I damaged it from a bad rail strike. I epoxy and clamped it, but then I went out to get a softer rail-specific board. 

The Ride binders worked well enough with the Stepchild, but I didn't like the way they felt on the Nitro. Now I have 2 jib boards I can alternate between with the Forces.




Anyways, yeah.... point is: Ride's convertible toe strap works and feels great for all mountain stuff but I couldn't ever get it just right for jibbing. The Force's toe straps were wack as fuck, and the Burton cap strap on the Unions work great for my boots and my style of riding; it feels great for rails. I feel like I get less pressure (vs. the Rides) but more hold. 


Oh yeah: the internet forgets to tell you that everything comes down to personal preference. Good luck. 



PS. Out here in Japan I found shops that still have Forces (haven't found any greens though... I looked for you). I know it wouldn't be the most economical (it would be about ~$260 probably after shiping and echange rate) but I could probably find you a pair of Forces if you wanted to ride them while there is still a spring season left...


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## legallyillegal

caps are stupid until you use them 2 years after everybody else


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## luke89

$Lindz$ said:


> I ride with all my bindings as toe caps. But I have different bindings and different straps based on what I want for each board.
> 
> I have Ride Delta MVMNT binders for backcountry/all mountain. To me, that are stiff, responsive, light, comfortable, and they feel great with my Lib Tech Snow Mullet 1986.
> 
> 
> For jibbing, I had Ride Contrabands, but then moved onto my Delta/Contraband Frankensteins. That worked a bit better for me as I was frustrated by the Contrabands after a season, but then I just got some Union Forces (the Cadets were too flexible for my liking, as were the Rome binders (let alone the weight of the Romes)).
> 
> But I don't like the Union toe straps. They didn't fit my boot well, so I got a shop to sell me the cap straps from a set of Burton Customs, and I broke out the bag of misc hardware and got those bad boys on the Unions.
> 
> Very happy.
> 
> Along with that, I got a new board, a Nitro Sub Pop 152 for rails. The Jibstick is leaning up against my wall with no binders on right now. I love that board but I damaged it from a bad rail strike. I epoxy and clamped it, but then I went out to get a softer rail-specific board.
> 
> The Ride binders worked well enough with the Stepchild, but I didn't like the way they felt on the Nitro. Now I have 2 jib boards I can alternate between with the Forces.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anyways, yeah.... point is: Ride's convertible toe strap works and feels great for all mountain stuff but I couldn't ever get it just right for jibbing. The Force's toe straps were wack as fuck, and the Burton cap strap on the Unions work great for my boots and my style of riding; it feels great for rails. I feel like I get less pressure (vs. the Rides) but more hold.
> 
> 
> Oh yeah: the internet forgets to tell you that everything comes down to personal preference. Good luck.
> 
> 
> 
> PS. Out here in Japan I found shops that still have Forces (haven't found any greens though... I looked for you). I know it wouldn't be the most economical (it would be about ~$260 probably after shiping and echange rate) but I could probably find you a pair of Forces if you wanted to ride them while there is still a spring season left...


Thanks for all the info. Tomorrow I will find out if I will buy the green forces from the shop or the black ones from the internet. I wont have a chance to ride them because my local trails have been closed for about three weeks sadly. I will definitely try out the cap straps and post a review of the jib stick and forces. Ive riden the jib stick but not enough to write a good review so I will wait till next november or so to write a good one. Also I agree about the preference thing. Ive heard alot of good things about Union so Im looking forward to testing them.


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## luke89

I ordered the forces today. They should be here in a few days. Ill post a review of what I think and when I ride them Ill add to that review. Thanks to everyone for all the info on them, I really cant wait till november to ride them.


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## Guest

Caps aight , I used to just run the straps on my union disco biscuits over the top , doesn't feel as if im getting jammed into a corner of my binding. But then I bought some flux distortions and had no other option but to run it on the toes.

All I can say is wow , I now have too much control and don't like it. I don't like it when I try to vitelli turns ( That a 360 degree turn right down and up the hill for all of you rookies , which if im not mistaken is most of you) my cap strap flap jack drags on the ground.

They also work a little loose when hitting the super dooper mega ultra jumpfs at norfsta , Despite adjustments and blah.

But they do feel better , just gotta give them time. But don't be giving away to much time to boa's because boa's hands down suck penis , so does libtech , so does burton , so does ak , so does surf brands in snowboarding , so does stepchild , so does preety much everyone including me. 

Next time your at the snowboard shop , walk out - go across the street and buy a pair of rollerblades and do that instead


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## SpeechRider

I prefer straps, because there is more immediate leverage on the heelside edge with the point of contact being on the top of the foot. If you picture a capstrap when the rider is on heelside edge, to "pull" on the toeside with your toes, the capstrap has to change position a little in order to shift toward the top of your foot.

Picture a bucket of cement with the handle flopped over away from you. If you pick up the handle, it has to rotate on its attachments. The capstrap is the same.

That said, if you're happy with your capstraps, then enjoy them.

I do think that if you're after super-quick response, then regular straps are the way to go.


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## legallyillegal

you have no idea what you're talking about


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## SpeechRider

Oh, wow, what a well-thought-out retort. Man, I'm really smarting from that one.


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## rader023

Your highback provides the leverage.


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## SpeechRider

rader023 said:


> Your highback provides the leverage.


Well, not exactly. Yes, you do exert _force _upon the highback, which channels that force into the board. But actual _leverage _is different. Technically, there's never any leverage--even though I used the term myself just a minute ago--just indirect force.

At any rate: On a heelside turn, you're exerting downward force on the highback and upward force on the toe strap (or capstrap). That upward force is directed at the tops of the toes. If you have a firm strap there, then of course that force channels through the strap, pulling on the screws and transmitting through the binding to pull the toe edge of the board up (at the same time that you're leaning back on the heelside).

However: If the strap is not taut (i.e., is of soft material) and is not in that top-of-toe position yet, then there's a delay between when you exert that upward force and when the material receiving it stretches as far as it can go or when the strap ever so slightly rotates upward to follow the movement of your foot.

But as I said: Comfort is as much a part of the equation as responsivness. If you like your capstraps, then don't let anyone dissuade you. (Hardboots and plate bindings are the most responsive of all, and I don't ride those because for me they weren't as comfortable.)


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## Guest

Get some shimano step in's. That why any dilema about straps is irradicated.

Step-in's are comming back in , lib tech are releasing a board next year with them built in. Check transworld next month


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## BliND KiNK

I fucking hate step ins with a passion.


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## schmitty34

I might get crap for this, but I'm not sure how much it matters other than comfort.

I've got Rome 390s and love the way the cap strap molds around my toe. 

However, last week the cap strap on my back binding busted on the first run of the day. It was a pow day so I wasn't about to stop to fix it. I proceded to hit the back country the rest of the day and didn't notice any different...even on the steeps or in the trees. I actually forgot about the broken strap until I went to unstrap after each run.


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## BliND KiNK

I did just get some burton missions.. and I like the cap strap... it's a bit more of a pain than the toe strap but I just like it for some reason.


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## PowSurfer

the capstrap pulls your foot back into the heal pocket as well as hold down your forefoot, the highback provides leverage better when the heal is fully back. I find the capstraps superior to toe straps in every way!


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## Extremo

Caps hands down. The response is unmatched. 

Most caps are designed now a days to apply pressure from the top as well as the front so it's not even a debate anymore.


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## Christopher9

Definitly toe caps. I have only used toe straps several times but did not like them at all. Caps are alot more responsive than toe straps.


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## CustomX - J-rad

The new Burton Ultra Get-a-grip capstrap is next level for burton capstraps. my boots are a bit small for my large bindings so i've had sliding with my cartel one, but my infidel est's with the get-a-grip capstrap is awesome! holds great and its comfy


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## AlexS

Easily caps. Way more support


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