# New canting thread



## UNION INHOUSE (Nov 13, 2012)

Hi everybody. I wanted to start a new thread and gather some direct feedback on canting. If interested, let us know your specs and let your voice be heard. 



1. Binding Brand & Model You Currently Ride:


2. Width & Angles:


3. Generalize up your riding type (all-mtn, jibber, eurocarver, etc):


4. How old are you, and how long have you been an active snowboarder:


5. How important is canting to you? 


6. Here is an online version of the current catalog, for those who haven't seen it yet - ISSUU - Union brandbook 2014 2015 by snowboardscatalog


Thanks in advance!


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## Dago91 (Mar 13, 2013)

1. Binding Brand & Model You Currently Ride:*Rome 390 Boss 2013*


2. Width & Angles:*21.5 15+/10-*


3. Generalize up your riding type (all-mtn, jibber, eurocarver, etc):*All mtn.. mostly Pow and some groomers.*


4. How old are you, and how long have you been an active snowboarder:*37 years old / 18 years on a board*


5. How important is canting to you? *Honestly its very important. Coming from a set of bindings that did not have canting to my new ones has been eye opening. I can ride longer with less fatigue and have no pain in my knees whatsoever. I would always be sore at the end of the day on my old bindings with no cant.. especially in my knees. So canting for now on.. period!*


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## blackbeard (Nov 24, 2011)

1. Binding Brand & Model You Currently Ride: *2013 K2 Formula*


2. Width & Angles: *22.5 15+/9-*


3. Generalize up your riding type (all-mtn, jibber, eurocarver, etc): *Groomers*


4. How old are you, and how long have you been an active snowboarder: *29 years old / 4 years on a board*


5. How important is canting to you? *Both bindings I've owned have had canting. When I rented boards my guess is that there was no canting. Since it has been a while since the rental days I can't tell you what i prefer, although canting has never caused issues, so that's a plus in my book!*


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## LuckyRVA (Jan 18, 2011)

1. Binding Brand & Model You Currently Ride: *Burton Cartel & Flux SF45*


2. Width & Angles: Cartel - *21" -12º x 12º / SF45 22" -18º x 9º
*

3. Generalize up your riding type (all-mtn, jibber, eurocarver, etc): *All mountain*


4. How old are you, and how long have you been an active snowboarder: *34 - been riding for 4 years*


5. How important is canting to you? *Even though I have janky knees its not something I consider when buying bindings. *


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## linvillegorge (Jul 6, 2009)

1. Binding Brand & Model You Currently Ride: *Flux Titan (now the TT) and Burton Triad*


2. Width & Angles: *22.5" 15/-15*


3. Generalize up your riding type (all-mtn, jibber, eurocarver, etc): *all-mountain*


4. How old are you, and how long have you been an active snowboarder: *31, 6 years*


5. How important is canting to you? *Don't know. Never ridden a canted binding, but I am valuing it highly in my next binding purchase. More important than canting to me though is shock absorption and that's the main reason I'm leaning toward the Union Factories slightly over the Flux SF.*


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## Argo (Feb 25, 2010)

Put up your stats too union inhouse...



1. Binding Brand & Model You Currently Ride: * flow nx2-SE or union factory
*

2. Width & Angles:
*23.5" 18/-9
*
3. Generalize up your riding type (all-mtn, jibber, eurocarver, etc):
*All mountain*

4. How old are you, and how long have you been an active snowboarder:
*37 been boarding 8 winters*

5. How important is canting to you? 
*I won't buy a binding without it*


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## larrytbull (Oct 30, 2013)

1. Binding Brand & Model You Currently Ride: flow nx2-SE k2 Cinch-ctx


2. Width & Angles:
22.5" 15/-6

3. Generalize up your riding type (all-mtn, jibber, eurocarver, etc):
All mountain

4. How old are you, and how long have you been an active snowboarder:
50, active 1.25 seasons

5. How important is canting to you? 
One of the most important aspect (also easy entry is required)


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## d2cycles (Feb 24, 2013)

UNION INHOUSE said:


> 1. Binding Brand & Model You Currently Ride: Union Contact Pro, Union Atlas, Salomon Chief and Flux DS30
> 
> 
> 2. Width & Angles: 22", 12 deg/ -12 deg
> ...


Thanks for seeking our feedback!


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## Soul06 (Dec 18, 2010)

1. Binding Brand & Model You Currently Ride: Burton Genesis EST w/ swapped in AutoCant footbed & Burton Custom X 158


2. Width & Angles: 20" & +13/-8


3. Generalize up your riding type (all-mtn, jibber, eurocarver, etc): all-mtn 


4. How old are you, and how long have you been an active snowboarder: 35. 4 years now


5. How important is canting to you? Very. It has done wonders to relieve fatigue and pain for me


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

Way to go Union!

1. Binding Brand & Model You Currently Ride: * Burton Mission, Custom *

2. Width & Angles:
*23" +18/-9 *

3. Generalize up your riding type (all-mtn, jibber, eurocarver, etc):
*All mountain (groomers, pow, some park)*

4. How old are you, and how long have you been an active snowboarder:
*37 y/o, snowboarding 2 winters*

5. How important is canting to you? 
*Based on the OVERWHELMING response in favour of Canting by people who already use canting... I will definitely try it next season. I think the best would be optional canted footbeds or some sort of Autocant. I have a blown knee and every little thing helps as one gets older...*


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## trapper (Jan 15, 2013)

2014 Union Factory

24.5 inch stance, +9/-6 angles

All-mountain: 70% groomers, 10% park, 20% trees/powder

33 years old, 3rd season on a board

At first I didn't think there was much of a difference between canted/non-canted. But with the canted bindings, I've been able to increase my stance width significantly this season from 22.5 inches to 24.5. This has helped nearly all aspects of my riding and wasn't able to go this wide with my old non-canted bindings without rear knee pain. I probably won't buy a non-canted binding in the future.


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## Booo! (Feb 14, 2014)

1. Binding Brand & Model You Currently Ride: *Union DLX 2013*


2. Width & Angles: *22" +12/-12*


3. Generalize up your riding type (all-mtn, jibber, eurocarver, etc): *Slow all-mountain, lots of jumps and some jibbing.*


4. How old are you, and how long have you been an active snowboarder: *26 years old, 8 years*


5. How important is canting to you? *It might make my top-3 list, after 1. soft flex and 2. good shock absorption.*


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## lab49232 (Sep 13, 2011)

Just a suggestion to many of the people who've posted so far, try turning your front foot out some more. Almost nobody should be riding below 15 degrees unless you have really bad knees. It may feel uncomfortable at first but after a full day most of you will much prefer it. For reference on what pros ride for stance here's a pretty comprehensive list : http://snowboarding.transworld.net/uncategorized/setups/#.Ux9nTYWuqKI Obviously stance is all personal preference but try it, there's a reason all the pro's are riding much more aggressive angles (canting helps out here a ton too)

Anyway for what's really being asked


1. Binding Brand & Model You Currently Ride: Raiden Andres Wiig and Rome 390 Boss


2. Width & Angles: 21.5" +21/-15


3. Generalize up your riding type (all-mtn, jibber, eurocarver, etc): Off Groom or on bad snow days it's park laps 


4. How old are you, and how long have you been an active snowboarder: 25 years old, 12 years


5. How important is canting to you? My Raidens don't have it and frankly if everything else about them wasn't rock solid they'd have been gone ages ago. They will however remain the last binding I own without it. Frankly there's no reason to not have it imo.


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## trapper (Jan 15, 2013)

With all due respect, I went to +15 for a few days last season, then down to +12 for most of the rest of the season and wasn't comfortable until I went back to +9. Doesn't seem to work as well for me sorry.


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## lab49232 (Sep 13, 2011)

trapper said:


> With all due respect, I went to +15 for a few days last season, then down to +12 for most of the rest of the season and wasn't comfortable until I went back to +9. Doesn't seem to work as well for me sorry.


Like I said there will be a few exceptions. Curious, what felt uncomfortable about it for you? In my years teaching when people came in with home set up rigs instead of rentals many were at 6 or 9 degrees and complained about knee stress when the tried angling more. Canting can relieve most if not all the pressure on your knees depending on the cant and stance angle.


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## linvillegorge (Jul 6, 2009)

I have a buddy who rides 0/0. I have no clue how he does it. I took one lap on that setup and thought I was either gonna crash and die or blow up my knees... possibly both.


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## trapper (Jan 15, 2013)

lab49232 said:


> Like I said there will be a few exceptions. Curious, what felt uncomfortable about it for you? In my years teaching when people came in with home set up rigs instead of rentals many were at 6 or 9 degrees and complained about knee stress when the tried angling more. Canting can relieve most if not all the pressure on your knees depending on the cant and stance angle.


I think I tended to open up my upper body more and wasn't as comfortable keeping my shoulders parallel with my board. I also tended to have more knee pain as I leaned forward with the larger stance angle (I do have a bad front knee). I know that seems counter intuitive but it was certainly the case.:dunno:


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## Booo! (Feb 14, 2014)

linvillegorge said:


> I have a buddy who rides 0/0. I have no clue how he does it. I took one lap on that setup and thought I was either gonna crash and die or blow up my knees... possibly both.


My knees are hurting just from reading that. :sad:


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## CassMT (Mar 14, 2013)

funny how it's all coming full circle, everything old is new again

1. Binding Brand & Model You Currently Ride: K2 somethingaruthers


2. Width & Angles:22"...24/12...6*ish backfoot cant


3. Generalize up your riding type (all-mtn, jibber, eurocarver, etc): everything natural


4. How old are you, and how long have you been an active snowboarder: 44...30th season onboard


5. How important is canting to you? very


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## readimag (Aug 10, 2011)

1. Binding Brand & Model You Currently Ride: *Switchback, holograms, now ipo*


2. Width & Angles: *22.5 - 23 depending on the board and binding combo, 18/-15*


3. Generalize up your riding type (all-mtn, jibber, eurocarver, etc):*All-mtn park*


4. How old are you, and how long have you been an active snowboarder:*32, 15ish years*


5. How important is canting to you? I like having the option with my switchback to have or not have cant but don’t have to have it if I love the binders like my NOW’s or holograms.


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## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

Varies. Often prototypes.

Flat: 20.5" 12/-9, Fixed angle more than 1.5°: 22" 12/-9

Anything and everything.

97; been mono plankin for 150 yrs.

Importance: mines kinda backwards. Its actually important to me that the binding NOT be fixed angle canting. Fixed angle determine your stance width for you based on how long your legs are. Modular canting like Burton's Auto Cant or the new alpha frame from Flux is how canting should be done. It's effective enough for proper realignment and way more compliant to difference body type and stance width combinations.

As a side note, I'm glad to see you taking a hands on approach to future design. Especially with canting.


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## lab49232 (Sep 13, 2011)

trapper said:


> I think I tended to open up my upper body more and wasn't as comfortable keeping my shoulders parallel with my board. I also tended to have more knee pain as I leaned forward with the larger stance angle (I do have a bad front knee). I know that seems counter intuitive but it was certainly the case.:dunno:


Ya the bad front knee can definitely affect it, a lot of guys with bad knees will ride positive angle on both feet which can allow for no knee pressure and more angle in the front, obviously this does hinder switch riding but greatly helps carving. The opening of your shoulders ya does seem a little odd and doesn't really make sense why binding angle would affect it much, mental maybe :dunno:? If you're not confident in your setup your body can react in weird ways.


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## Martyc (Sep 8, 2013)

1. Binding Brand & Model You Currently Ride: K2 formula 2013; Union Factory; Salomon Chief





2. Width & Angles: 24" +/- 15 degrees





3. Generalize up your riding type (all-mtn, jibber, eurocarver, etc): Noob, no idea what and where I'm going yet 





4. How old are you, and how long have you been an active snowboarder: 52 today  and 6 months a beginner





5. How important is canting to you? Well they all have it but quite frankly if the Fcuker ran me over in a truck I wouldn't be able to tell the difference in all honesty 





Just got the Chiefs and so far I like them, the Factories are lush and totally bomb proof, so comfy, I don't like the K2's at all.


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## BurtonAvenger (Aug 14, 2007)

UNION INHOUSE said:


> Hi everybody. I wanted to start a new thread and gather some direct feedback on canting. If interested, let us know your specs and let your voice be heard.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Hopefully this gives you some frame of reference.


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## t21 (Dec 29, 2010)

1. Binding Brand & Model You Currently Ride: Flow NX2-AT/ FUSE AT


2. Width & Angles:22-3/4" 12/-9


3. Generalize up your riding type (all-mtn, jibber, eurocarver, etc):All mountain


4. How old are you, and how long have you been an active snowboarder: 45, 4 seasons


5. How important is canting to you? very important, knees feels so much better after riding all day with it than without. I did have a 2010 Union force once as my beginner binding but...


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## Grabber (Mar 5, 2014)

K2 formula
All mountain(groomers,park,pow)
34yrs old, riding for 19 years
6'0 tall 23.5 width 12,-9

Canting is a must. Hands down. There's absolutely no way to dispute this unless you have a very narrow stance. I can't believe there are still bindings out there that do not offer it. As for some pros not using them it's probably just because they are not used to them and they are like 20 years of age. It's not just your knees you are saving, it's also your hips and ankles. Pretty soon bindings will not be made without it or at least with the option. As for union, why is the factory the only model with canting? I find it hard to believe that only 2 out of 100 team riders requested it. You would think they would want their joints aligned when landing 70ft kickers..


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## UNION INHOUSE (Nov 13, 2012)

Grabber said:


> K2 formula
> All mountain(groomers,park,pow)
> 34yrs old, riding for 19 years
> 6'0 tall 23.5 width 12,-9
> ...



Honest to God truth there. We have a big group of team riders over 30, and none of them really care about canting. A few like it, but switching back is no problem. The whole point of this is gauge the public. I'm doing it through several channels, and this forum by far has the largest desire for canting. I rode them in the late 80's, and have started to get back on the canting bus. 

Really good feedback so far guys. Sometimes it seems like people over analyze their gear and should just shred. That said, this is a great exercise and a perfect time to do it. Much appreciated. 

Keep em coming!


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## Grabber (Mar 5, 2014)

lab49232 said:


> Just a suggestion to many of the people who've posted so far, try turning your front foot out some more. Almost nobody should be riding below 15 degrees unless you have really bad knees. It may feel uncomfortable at first but after a full day most of you will much prefer it. For reference on what pros ride for stance here's a pretty comprehensive list : http://snowboarding.transworld.net/uncategorized/setups/#.Ux9nTYWuqKI Obviously stance is all personal preference but try it, there's a reason all the pro's are riding much more aggressive angles (canting helps out here a ton too)
> 
> Anyway for what's really being asked
> 
> ...


That's an old list. There are a ton of current pros riding with 12 on the front foot. It puts less stress on the knee. I switched from 15 to 12 and it feels much better.


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## PalmerFreak (Jul 13, 2009)

1. Binding Brand & Model You Currently Ride: *Flow NX2-RS*


2. Width & Angles: *I've never measured my stance width but my angle is 15/-12*


3. Generalize up your riding type (all-mtn, jibber, eurocarver, etc): *On piste - mostly groomers.* 


4. How old are you, and how long have you been an active snowboarder: *I'm 46 and have been riding for 14 years.* 


5. How important is canting to you? *Very, I had my knee scoped in mid-January and won't purchase non-canted bindings ever again.*


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

1. Ride Fame, Burton Escapades, Spark Afterburner
2. 22", +24/+12 or 9
3. Freeride
4. 35y, 21y (~500d)
5. Well... Thought it is important since the Fame were so comfy. But the new Afterburner don't have canting and I love them as well. So I’m not too sure anymore; guess it doesn’t matter too much with my strange crooked knee riding style :dunno:


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## UNION INHOUSE (Nov 13, 2012)

Somebody asked for my personal specs, so here they are. 

1. Binding Brand & Model You Currently Ride:
*14/15 Trice, Ultra, FC, Contact Pro and some top secret stuff.*

2. Width & Angles:
*22ish with 18 and -6. *

3. Generalize up your riding type (all-mtn, jibber, eurocarver, etc):
*Powder hound, or sunny park laps. *

4. How old are you, and how long have you been an active snowboarder:
*40 with 28 years of shred passion*

5. How important is canting to you? 
*Not much, but been loving the new T.Rice model with the way the Asym highback works with the canting.*


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## Grabber (Mar 5, 2014)

UNION INHOUSE said:


> Honest to God truth there. We have a big group of team riders over 30, and none of them really care about canting. A few like it, but switching back is no problem. The whole point of this is gauge the public. I'm doing it through several channels, and this forum by far has the largest desire for canting. I rode them in the late 80's, and have started to get back on the canting bus.
> 
> Really good feedback so far guys. Sometimes it seems like people over analyze their gear and should just shred. That said, this is a great exercise and a perfect time to do it. Much appreciated.
> 
> Keep em coming!


I do believe you, not suprisingly it's the top two that prefer them in t rice and tourstein. Maybe the others will eventually catch on if they want to go as big as these guys.


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## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

Grabber said:


> I do believe you, not suprisingly it's the top two that prefer them in t rice and tourstein. Maybe the others will eventually catch on if they want to go as big as these guys.


Riiiiigggghhhhhtt.

Gigi Ruf. Dan Brisse. Kevin Jones. Kazu Kokubo. Blair Habenicht. Stian Solberg. Marku Koski. Brian Iguchi. Cody Bierdorf. And more...

Yup, those guys don't go as big as Rice or Torstein.

Angled canting is not for everyone. It actually causes me MORE pain for instance.


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## 24WERD (May 9, 2012)

1. Binding Brand & Model You Currently Ride:
Union contact pro - 2012, Flux SF 2012

2. Width & Angles:
23-23.5 max width, 18 front on powder board fish, othersize 15. Back goes from -9 ,-6, and 0 depending on conditions.


3. Generalize up your riding type (all-mtn, jibber, eurocarver, etc): all-mtn usually unless its a crappy season then I try and jib.


4. How old are you, and how long have you been an active snowboarder:
38, 4 years

5. How important is canting to you? 
not really, but wouldn't mind trying it out.
"Don't know it till you try it" is my saying


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## Grabber (Mar 5, 2014)

Nivek said:


> Riiiiigggghhhhhtt.
> 
> Gigi Ruf. Dan Brisse. Kevin Jones. Kazu Kokubo. Blair Habenicht. Stian Solberg. Marku Koski. Brian Iguchi. Cody Bierdorf. And more...
> 
> ...


Maybe I'm a little biased. Out of curiosity, where does it cause you more pain? This is the first I've heard of that. Do you have a very narrow stance?


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## lab49232 (Sep 13, 2011)

Grabber said:


> That's an old list. There are a ton of current pros riding with 12 on the front foot. It puts less stress on the knee. I switched from 15 to 12 and it feels much better.


Canting fixes that, it's the whole point, angles tend to help turning with the only physical down side being knee stress. This does make it impossible for some people but for most it's just getting used to a new feel. Throw in 2.5 degree cants at 18 degrees and your knees feel like your riding 9 degree angles. 

Also Terje rides 21 degrees as well as every Burton team rider (Jeremy Jones, John Jackson, Danny Davis, etc.) are all over 15. Again I'm not saying that its universal, just that there are huge advantages to having angle *if* it feels ok when you ride, and canting helps that. There's a reason most of the top pros ride aggressive angles up to 21 degrees. If it doesn't work for you that's fine but arguing the physics and riders behind it just isn't an argument.


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## Grabber (Mar 5, 2014)

lab49232 said:


> Canting fixes that, it's the whole point, angles tend to help turning with the only physical down side being knee stress. This does make it impossible for some people but for most it's just getting used to a new feel. Throw in 2.5 degree cants at 18 degrees and your knees feel like your riding 9 degree angles.
> 
> Also Terje rides 21 degrees as well as every Burton team rider (Jeremy Jones, John Jackson, Danny Davis, etc.) are all over 15. Again I'm not saying that its universal, just that there are huge advantages to having angle *if* it feels ok when you ride, and canting helps that. There's a reason most of the top pros ride aggressive angles up to 21 degrees. If it doesn't work for you that's fine but arguing the physics and riders behind it just isn't an argument.


My point was that I don't think every one on this list should turn their front foot to at least 15 degrees and that 12 degrees may actually be better for some people, not all. Instead of going back to 2004, I could go back to 1994 where the norm was front foot extremely aggressive and rear foot positive for all mountain riding.


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## lab49232 (Sep 13, 2011)

Grabber said:


> My point was that I don't think every one on this list should turn their front foot to at least 15 degrees and that 12 degrees may actually be better for some people, not all. Instead of going back to 2004, I could go back to 1994 where the norm was front foot extremely aggressive and rear foot positive for all mountain riding.


If you'll read what I wrote I did say it may not work for some, but that everyone should at least try it. But if that's really what you were trying to say, why try to bring up the pro riders stance? I'm sure your intent was good, just be careful trying to call people out here, especially when its within your first 10 posts ever. A lot of people here are pretty ruthless and unforgiving. But as for both feet forward it's surprisingly still pretty popular, including with many people on this forum, you'll also notice I mention that in my posts earlier in this thread already as well . But ya that's crazy to me, too much switch in my riding to even consider all positive angles, then again I've never done any boarder cross sadly but I would probably consider it then.


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## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

Where are you getting this angle more than 15 deg is best for 90% of people from? I'd love to see some form of study or biomechanical proof.




Grabber said:


> Maybe I'm a little biased. Out of curiosity, where does it cause you more pain? This is the first I've heard of that. Do you have a very narrow stance?


I move my weight around on my board a lot. I use my contact points a lot. I have to fight the angle in the canting to get my body outside my foot. It effectively was giving me the same pain I got when I had to fill in for goalie in hockey. My roommate has the same issue.


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## lab49232 (Sep 13, 2011)

Nivek said:


> Where are you getting this angle more than 15 deg is best for 90% of people from? I'd love to see some form of study or biomechanical proof.


Whoa easy, i never said 90% or anything close. Majority simply means 50% or more. If it was 90% I would have been much more aggressive in my suggestion. That being said there's tons of knowledge out there for how angles affect control and ride of a board. I'm not gonna try and get in to exact scientific explanations as I just don't have the "biomechanical" knowledge base to properly explain without risking tossing out some misinformation. But for example the more forward your angles the more aggressively you can dive in to carves. As mentioned above the people who ride purely fast carving lines will ride both positive super aggressive angles as it aligns you more naturally with your travel.


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## NWBoarder (Jan 10, 2010)

1. Binding Brand & Model You Currently Ride: *2013 Rome 390 Boss*


2. Width & Angles:*Roughly 22.5", 9,-9 *


3. Generalize up your riding type (all-mtn, jibber, eurocarver, etc): *All Mountain, with some park when there's not fresh pow*


4. How old are you, and how long have you been an active snowboarder:*32, Started boarding '97*


5. How important is canting to you? *I don't ever want to own another binding without it*


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## lab49232 (Sep 13, 2011)

Most people as a rule of thumb tell you to angle your bindings as much as you comfortably can. I'm merely suggesting that people push (to a very minor extent, don't risk hurting yourself) what they think they feel comfortable with and see how it affects their riding. After years of riding and even more years teaching the majority of people I have dealt with have found that if they gave it time they felt comfortable at 15 and even 18 degree angles and it improved their riding. Too many people play the set and leave and never touch again game with their binding angle unaware of the world of difference it plays in their riding. :dunno:


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## tokyo_dom (Jan 7, 2013)

1. Binding Brand & Model You Currently Ride:　*12/13 Burton Mission Restricted*


2. Width & Angles: *Not sure of the width - its the silver ringed mounting holes on my K2 Parkstar (152). -12 and +15*


3. Generalize up your riding type (all-mtn, jibber, eurocarver, etc): *All mountain and park. I'll do some high speed carving then wait for her to catch up by practicing ground tricks/buttering etc. But love the park and would spend the entire time there if i could.*


4. How old are you, and how long have you been an active snowboarder: *About to turn 35. First stepped on a board in '97, but probably less than 60 days boarding in total.
*

5. How important is canting to you? *Never tried it before, but given all the hype, my next bindings WILL have canting - This year my MCLs have been feeling tender after boarding and hopefully canting can help with that*


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## DToay34 (Oct 30, 2013)

1. Binding Brand & Model You Currently Ride: *2013 Rome 390 Boss bindings*


2. Width & Angles: *About 23" width, +15, -15 angles*


3. Generalize up your riding type (all-mtn, jibber, eurocarver, etc): *Do some of everything, cruising, jumps, ground tricks, basically everything except rails/boxes*


4. How old are you, and how long have you been an active snowboarder: *22, this is my third year riding
*

5. How important is canting to you? *I won't buy another binding without canting on it. I'm a bigger guy, and canting really helps my knees feel better after a whole day of riding. It was night and day difference switching to canting bindings. I have the max canting of 3.5 on my 390 Boss bindings right now.*


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## Art_mtl (Feb 25, 2013)

1. Binding Brand & Model You Currently Ride: Flux DM


2. Width & Angles:21.5 18/ -3

3. Generalize up your riding type (all-mtn, jibber, eurocarver, etc): all mtn , glades and some small jumps.

4. How old are you, and how long have you been an active snowboarder: 40 and its my 3rd winter 


5. How important is canting to you? never had one with canting but most likely will check it out on my next set.


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## Rance P (Oct 1, 2013)

1. Binding Brand & Model You Currently Ride: *Ride Ex*


2. Width & Angles: *23" +12/-6*


3. Generalize up your riding type (all-mtn, jibber, eurocarver, etc): *All-Mtn*


4. How old are you, and how long have you been an active snowboarder: *38 years old and active snowboarder for 2 seasons*


5. How important is canting to you?: *Have only had bindings with canting and I'm hesitant to try ones without so I'd say its important. 
*
I'm sure I'm not the only one that would love to see Union put canted footbeds through out their lineup or at least on a few models.


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## Joe77 (Feb 7, 2013)

1. Binding Brand & Model You Currently Ride:
2012 R0me 390 Boss

2. Width & Angles:
23.5", +15/-15 on a true twin board 156" Capita Outsiders 

3. Generalize up your riding type (all-mtn, jibber, eurocarver, etc):
Mostly groomer laps and park. Like to jump kickers and anything jumpable.

4. How old are you, and how long have you been an active snowboarder:
36 and my second season riding. Better late than never.

5. How important is canting to you? 
I use 4 degrees of canting. Before i knew any better, I always limp after riding and on long days my right knee swells like a football that i could barely bend. Never happened again after canting.


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## linvillegorge (Jul 6, 2009)

Never realized that most of the posters on this site are 30+ and even 35+. I thought I was likely one of the older frequent posters. Hell, looks like I'm one of the youngest. :yahoo:


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## rambob (Mar 5, 2011)

1. Binding Brand & Model You Currently Ride: 
2013 Cartel Limiteds = Short Boards. 2010 Union Force SLs with Mod Straps = Longer Boards. 


2. Width & Angles: 
22 -23" on all my boards (I'm 5'9.5"), SLs are usually at +12-18/-9-12, Cartels are usually +15-21/-12-15. 


3. Generalize up your riding type (all-mtn, jibber, eurocarver, etc): All Mountain PowSnob


4. How old are you, and how long have you been an active snowboarder: Old Man, Riding since 91 or 92; yikes!


5. How important is canting to you? Its not. Like I said, I'm old, I shred all day and the only thing that bothers me is that I got to stop, lol. 
I think people today ride too short of boards and they take too much vibration in their knees, legs, back, etc...........


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## ek9max (Apr 8, 2013)

Please add canting to more bindings!

I have the 2014 factory because of canting. I want the 2015 ultras but don't think I will because the lack of canting


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## davidj (May 30, 2011)

1. Binding Brand & Model You Currently Ride: *Flow NX2 AT*

2. Width & Angles: *~23 inches, +9/-9*


3. Generalize up your riding type (all-mtn, jibber, eurocarver, etc): *All-mountain - cruising, small jumps, powder, trees, bumps*


4. How old are you, and how long have you been an active snowboarder: *50+, actively boarding 5 years*


5. How important is canting to you? *At my age, I put my knees through a lot (first chair to last call, no lunch/rest breaks, 30+ days/year), so yeah pretty important.*


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## Psi-Man (Aug 31, 2009)

Interesting thread:

1. Binding Brand & Model You Currently Ride: *2010 Ride Spi*

2. Width & Angles: *22.5 inches, +24/0*

3. Generalize up your riding type (all-mtn, jibber, eurocarver, etc): *All-mountain*


4. How old are you, and how long have you been an active snowboarder: *46, actively boarding 22-23 years*

5. How important is canting to you? *Not very as I have no issues with knees. I recently spent 5 days in a row on non canted Flux bindings and noticed no difference.*


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## Seppuccu (Dec 4, 2012)

linvillegorge said:


> Never realized that most of the posters on this site are 30+ and even 35+. I thought I was likely one of the older frequent posters. Hell, looks like I'm one of the youngest. :yahoo:


You make it sound as if it was a good thing. Kiddo! 

But to be fair I think this thread might draw the attention of riders with an interest in canting, ergo riders with knee problems, ergo older riders. Don't you think?



I'll add my own stats to this thread after my next trip so that I at least have 20+ days of snowboarding experience.


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## Bgsmith9 (Oct 1, 2013)

1. Binding Brand & Model You Currently Ride:
Union Flite, Switchback

2. Width & Angles:
22" 18/-18

3. Generalize up your riding type (all-mtn, jibber, eurocarver, etc):
Park

4. How old are you, and how long have you been an active snowboarder:
16, 4 years 

5. How important is canting to you?
Never really paid attention to it, might pick up a pair of the canted footbeds for my switchbacks seeing all the positive things.


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## jliu (Jan 20, 2009)

1. Binding Brand & Model You Currently Ride: Burton Cartels (non-reflex)


2. Width & Angles: 22.5-23.5; 15 / -6


3. Generalize up your riding type (all-mtn, jibber, eurocarver, etc): Groomers, glades, and a bit of park 


4. How old are you, and how long have you been an active snowboarder: 29, boarding for 6


5. How important is canting to you? Don't have knee issues (yet) and have been riding on non-canted bindings with canted insoles for a while. However, they are high on my priority list for my next set to try and extract more ollie power from my artifact rocker...lol.

thought about 'fixed cant angles' vs. 'auto'. What about putting a standard 1.5 deg cant + variable durometer foam to allow the extra 1-1.5 deg of cant based on person? Even though the concept of B's autocant and Flux's variable density eva sounds really good...i find it hard to believe the difference in foams can actually compress to provide more than 1-2 deg of cant (esp when cold) when riding and it depends on rider weight.


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## scotty100 (Apr 3, 2012)

jliu said:


> 1. Binding Brand & Model You Currently Ride: Burton Cartels (non-reflex)
> 
> 
> 2. Width & Angles: 22.5-23.5; 15 / -6
> ...


I think Ride used to offer that with some of their bindings...2 deg cant footbeds standard, 2.5 and also 3 if you wanted to sub them in instead. And good point on the autocant tech...the variables at play with that idea, especially rider weight and on hill temps., make me wonder if it really does make any difference per the marketing guff would have you believe.


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## SnowDogWax (Nov 8, 2013)

1. Binding Brand & Model You Currently Ride:Union Contact Pro, Union Force, Atlas, Flows, Rome mob Boss

2. Width & Angles:23.5 18/ -9

3. Generalize up your riding type (all-mtn, freeride/freestyle): , glades, moguls, and some small jumps.

4. How old are you, and how long have you been an active snowboarder: 63 my 3rd year 


5. How important is canting to you? Not


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## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

scotty100 said:


> I think Ride used to offer that with some of their bindings...2 deg cant footbeds standard, 2.5 and also 3 if you wanted to sub them in instead. And good point on the autocant tech...the variables at play with that idea, especially rider weight and on hill temps., make me wonder if it really does make any difference per the marketing guff would have you believe.


Eva doesn't react as much to temp as you're thinking. And remember, you're putting a lot of weight in a small area. It will compress.

Maybe try doing a fixed angle with soft foam on the outside. That way you can get that 2.5-3° people look for, but those of us that aren't a fan of fixed angles won't have to fight the cant as much.


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## chomps1211 (Mar 30, 2011)

1. Binding Brand & Model You Currently Ride: 

3 pair Cartels - 2-2010/11's and 1- 2012/13 reflex


2. Width & Angles: 

21.5 to 24.75 / +18° -12°


3. Generalize up your riding type (all-mtn, jibber, eurocarver, etc): 

Still learning, haven't ridden any Big Mountain resorts yet, no park or big air,.. Lots of Groomers, some butters n flatland stuff. Anything resembling POW we can get in MI. 


4. How old are you, and how long have you been an active snowboarder: 

53 - 3.5 seasons. 


5. How important is canting to you? 

Not sure yet. Widened my stance significantly end of last season, this season started to get some pain in lead knee. Just got done adding a slight DIY cant to my Proto's bindings last couple weeks. Didn't notice as much pain. Rode my Rome wide one day this weekend without, knee hurt. Narrowed the stance to 23.25" and added slight cant via DIY foam pads. Less pain. So I'm hopeful it will be an advantage. Need more time on it to be sure. 

Although I agree with those questioning the "auto cants" effectivness. Rome has the 2012/13 reflex Cartels with auto cant. And my knees still ached at 24" stance. :dunno:


6. Here is an online version of the current catalog, for those who haven't seen it yet - ISSUU - Union brandbook 2014 2015 by snowboardscatalog


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## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

chomps1211 said:


> Not sure yet. Widened my stance significantly end of last season, this season started to get some pain in lead knee. Just got done adding a slight DIY cant to my Proto's bindings last couple weeks. Didn't notice as much pain. Rode my Rome wide one day this weekend without, knee hurt. Narrowed the stance to 23.25" and added slight cant via DIY foam pads. Less pain. So I'm hopeful it will be an advantage. Need more time on it to be sure.
> 
> Although I agree with those questioning the "auto cants" effectivness. Rome has the 2012/13 reflex Cartels with auto cant. And my knees still ached at 24" stance.]


^^^how tall are you and where's the pain?


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## scotty100 (Apr 3, 2012)

chomps1211 said:


> 1. Binding Brand & Model You Currently Ride:
> 
> 3 pair Cartels - 2-2010/11's and 1- 2012/13 reflex
> 
> ...


Chomps - I know you're still progressing on the skills front etc. which is all good but thinking 22-23" stance with 12/-6 angles on groomers might be good to try (if you haven't already)...your angles seem a little aggressive, especially if you ain't doing anything other than hitting groomers etc. Just a thought...?


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## scotty100 (Apr 3, 2012)

Nivek said:


> Eva doesn't react as much to temp as you're thinking. And remember, you're putting a lot of weight in a small area. It will compress.
> 
> Maybe try doing a fixed angle with soft foam on the outside. That way you can get that 2.5-3° people look for, but those of us that aren't a fan of fixed angles won't have to fight the cant as much.


Yeah you're right, a lot of weight on a small area is going to produce quite a lot of variation on Eva compression so makes me wonder what autocant really does because apart from weight, what else is it reacting to? And can we then correlate weight to canting angle required? No, I don't think we can?


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## chomps1211 (Mar 30, 2011)

Nivek said:


> ^^^how tall are you and where's the pain?


Six foot,.. I'm tall in the saddle tho. (I Carry most of my height from hips to shoulders, so short(ish) legs. Only 32" inseam.) It's not severe pain, my L knee aches some this season. Seems to be thru and across the front of the knee, right below the knee cap, and some to the L lateral (outside.) I haven't noticed any pain in R (rear foot) knee. (even tho I regularly do a few turns switch on many of my laps.) There was pain in that knee near the end of my 1st 1.5 season. At that time, I was riding my Arbor exclusively at about 20-21" wide and +21˚ / -9˚.

The foam pads I used for the canting are firm density, appx. 3/16ths thick and I didn't sand or angle them. I covered the outside 1/3 or so of the bindings foot beds to achieve the angle. Couldn't tell you with any certainty what degree of cant, but would guess it's less than 2˚.

Apologies if that's TMI! Just trying to account for all the variables.


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## ridinbend (Aug 2, 2012)

1. Binding Brand & Model You Currently Ride:

Union Contact Pro, NOW Drive, Ride SPI

2. Width & Angles:

18,-18 23.5in


3. Generalize up your riding type (all-mtn, jibber, eurocarver, etc):

All Mountain and lotsa pow


4. How old are you, and how long have you been an active snowboarder:

32, 20+


5. How important is canting to you? 

Eh, my spi are 4 degree canting but are also the only canted binding I've used. It's noticeable, but I only ride those on deep pow days.


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## madmax (Sep 10, 2013)

1. Binding Brand & Model You Currently Ride:

Union Factory

2. Width & Angles:

15,-12


3. Generalize up your riding type (all-mtn, jibber, eurocarver, etc):

Groomers, pow when there is, ungroomed shit when there isn't


4. How old are you, and how long have you been an active snowboarder:

26, 8+


5. How important is canting to you? 

Really noticed it this season as my first season on canted binders. Initial soreness in the beginning of the season but the longer I ride them the better my knees feel. front leg doesn't get nearly as tired as it used to.

Psyched for next year's models - especially the north star and the silver C. Pro


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## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

scotty100 said:


> Yeah you're right, a lot of weight on a small area is going to produce quite a lot of variation on Eva compression so makes me wonder what autocant really does because apart from weight, what else is it reacting to? And can we then correlate weight to canting angle required? No, I don't think we can?


Static canting (fixed angle) is great if the activity is static. Dynamic canting like AutoCant is better for dynamic movements. If you turn, pop, and land all with your weight centered on your feet then static canting is probably fine. But for me, I'd rather not have my knee shoved forward trying to push my tail down in pow or on a back seat landing since I'm standing on an angle. I don't have to fight AutoCant.

Also the pain I get from static canting doesnt usually show till about 15 days straight and is less prominent on full rocker boards or softer RC or camrock boards.


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## JoeyOranges (Mar 9, 2011)

1. Binding Brand & Model You Currently Ride: *Salomon Relay XLT* 

2. Width & Angles: *21.75", 15/-6*


3. Generalize up your riding type (all-mtn, jibber, eurocarver, etc): *All-mountain except for park. In reality this means groomers, trees, pow (when available)*


4. How old are you, and how long have you been an active snowboarder: *42, 26 years*


5. How important is canting to you? *I like the idea, but haven't ridden canted bindings since my Sims Switchblade with the under-the-binding wedge. One of the reasons I went with the Relays was to get better nose-to-tail movement and I've been pretty happy with them. I think I'd be even happier with canted footbeds in the new Shadowfit tech though. . . 

On the other hand, I recently rode some old Burton CO2s on my Charlie Slasher and had no complaints. Maybe because everything's better with powder? *


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## Grabber (Mar 5, 2014)

Nivek said:


> Static canting (fixed angle) is great if the activity is static. Dynamic canting like AutoCant is better for dynamic movements. If you turn, pop, and land all with your weight centered on your feet then static canting is probably fine. But for me, I'd rather not have my knee shoved forward trying to push my tail down in pow or on a back seat landing since I'm standing on an angle. I don't have to fight AutoCant.
> 
> Also the pain I get from static canting doesnt usually show till about 15 days straight and is less prominent on full rocker boards or softer RC or camrock boards.


In all fairness, I haven't tried Burton's autocant. Are they really the deal? I'm a believer in canting and if this is the best of both worlds they could be on to something. My question is, do you feel the autocant helping with joint alignment?


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## scotty100 (Apr 3, 2012)

Nivek said:


> Static canting (fixed angle) is great if the activity is static. Dynamic canting like AutoCant is better for dynamic movements. If you turn, pop, and land all with your weight centered on your feet then static canting is probably fine. But for me, I'd rather not have my knee shoved forward trying to push my tail down in pow or on a back seat landing since I'm standing on an angle. I don't have to fight AutoCant.
> 
> Also the pain I get from static canting doesnt usually show till about 15 days straight and is less prominent on full rocker boards or softer RC or camrock boards.


Interesting, but do you think you are actually getting any canting support from autocant? The feeling you describe of not having to fight it, I wonder if that is because it's not actually there...or is much less than what you feel with static?

This season I've ridden my malavitas as usual but also new cartels and K2 formulas. I've not had any knee pain with any of them. Not noticed the effects of Burton autocant vs. K2 static at all really. Makes me wonder what the actual benefit of autocant is and whether it's there at all...


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## Justin (Jun 2, 2010)

1. Binding Brand & Model You Currently Ride: Targa, 390 boss, formula


2. Width & Angles: 26 inches, 18 -18


3. Generalize up your riding type (all-mtn, jibber, eurocarver, etc):Everything, depends on conditions.


4. How old are you, and how long have you been an active snowboarder: 30, 4 years


5. How important is canting to you? I haven't ridden no cant for a while. I should slap some 0 degrees in one of my bindings to try it again. I usually recommend my friends to get a pair of romes so they can try canting if they have never used it and they are getting bindings.


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## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

scotty100 said:


> Interesting, but do you think you are actually getting any canting support from autocant? The feeling you describe of not having to fight it, I wonder if that is because it's not actually there...or is much less than what you feel with static?
> 
> This season I've ridden my malavitas as usual but also new cartels and K2 formulas. I've not had any knee pain with any of them. Not noticed the effects of Burton autocant vs. K2 static at all really. Makes me wonder what the actual benefit of autocant is and whether it's there at all...


Yes. One of my bad habits is driving more off my big toe instead of my whole forefoot and that was something I always liked about canting was that it helped me get my pressure evened out. I get a similar effect from AutoCant. 



chomps1211 said:


> Six foot,.. I'm tall in the saddle tho. (I Carry most of my height from hips to shoulders, so short(ish) legs. Only 32" inseam.) It's not severe pain, my L knee aches some this season. Seems to be thru and across the front of the knee, right below the knee cap, and some to the L lateral (outside.) I haven't noticed any pain in R (rear foot) knee. (even tho I regularly do a few turns switch on many of my laps.) There was pain in that knee near the end of my 1st 1.5 season. At that time, I was riding my Arbor exclusively at about 20-21" wide and +21˚ / -9˚.
> 
> The foam pads I used for the canting are firm density, appx. 3/16ths thick and I didn't sand or angle them. I covered the outside 1/3 or so of the bindings foot beds to achieve the angle. Couldn't tell you with any certainty what degree of cant, but would guess it's less than 2˚.
> 
> Apologies if that's TMI! Just trying to account for all the variables.


Consistent pain in that area with that drastic stance differences sounds more to me like you need better fitting boots or custom insoles to get everything aligned right. That's where'd I'd start next.


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## UNION INHOUSE (Nov 13, 2012)

*Thanks*

A huge thanks to all who gave their feedback.


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## Mr.KnowItAll (Feb 18, 2014)

Sims X-Wedge Snowboard solves all these problems. Union will most likely make it way complicated and too many small parts to lose.

change your ride forever.

SIMS® Change your ride forever | Another first from SIMS™ | X-Wedge 2012 | E-Board Technology™


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## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

Mr.KnowItAll said:


> Sims X-Wedge Snowboard solves all these problems. Union will most likely make it way complicated and too many small parts to lose.
> 
> change your ride forever.
> 
> SIMS® Change your ride forever | Another first from SIMS™ | X-Wedge 2012 | E-Board Technology™


How dies it fix the issue of static canting exactly? It doesn't.

Union has never been complicated. 

Nice job being a useless addition on you 11th post.


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## tradnwaves4snow (Nov 19, 2013)

Mr.KnowItAll said:


> Sims X-Wedge Snowboard solves all these problems. Union will most likely make it way complicated and too many small parts to lose.
> 
> change your ride forever.
> 
> SIMS® Change your ride forever | Another first from SIMS™ | X-Wedge 2012 | E-Board Technology™


I would rather my canting be in the bindings than the board... what if I wanted to ride a different board size, shape, camber for different conditions??


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## Dago91 (Mar 13, 2013)

Just switched from a 2.0 cant to a 3.5 cant. Honestly I can not tell the difference my knees still feel the same at the end of the day which is great no pain! So I prob will keep with the 3.5.. more cant the better.:dunno:


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## scottb7 (Nov 19, 2012)

Yeah canting is fine, and good. But when is union going to have a hinge disk? Seems like only game in town is burton with re:flex now that forum is being discontinued.


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## pescadero (Feb 5, 2014)

UNION INHOUSE said:


> 1. Binding Brand & Model You Currently Ride:


Burton Mission




UNION INHOUSE said:


> 2. Width & Angles:


21.5", +21/+15

Am I the only person in the world that rides positive angle on both feet anymore?




UNION INHOUSE said:


> 3. Generalize up your riding type (all-mtn, jibber, eurocarver, etc):


Freeride, no park.





UNION INHOUSE said:


> 4. How old are you, and how long have you been an active snowboarder:


39 years old, active snowboarder for 27 years.




UNION INHOUSE said:


> 5. How important is canting to you?


Haven't rode canted since I got rid of my 1992 Burton Air 6.1 with the metal cant plate under the rear binding - so I guess not that important.


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## Mig Fullbag (Apr 15, 2014)

UNION INHOUSE said:


> 1. Binding Brand & Model You Currently Ride:


2013 Ride El Hefe
2014 Ride El Hefe




UNION INHOUSE said:


> 2. Width & Angles:


22" wide, +24° to + 30° on front, +3° to +9° on rear. Varies slightly depending on board.



UNION INHOUSE said:


> 3. Generalize up your riding type (all-mtn, jibber, eurocarver, etc):


Pow and groomers, carving style, no parks.



UNION INHOUSE said:


> 4. How old are you, and how long have you been an active snowboarder:


52 yo (soon), active snowboarder for 35 years.



UNION INHOUSE said:


> 5. How important is canting to you?


Very. Used it through part of the 90s. Got back to it last year and will never go back to flat. Use 4° on front and rear, or 4° front and 5° rear (depends on board).


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