# Strange leg cramp problem



## Guest

I'm trying to find an explanation for my quad cramp i experience every time i ride.

First half of the day i always feel great, then after i take a break for lunch or to just relax, the next run or two I get this strange feeling in my back legs inner thigh - area that is closest to the knee.
Any time i put pressure on it it feels like the muscle is about to seize and it fact the very first time when i tried to ride through it, it ended up completely rolling up in a hard ball and caused immense pain. It doesn't feel tired and there is no "burn" but i can feel it pre-seizing so to speak so now i just have to fall down and wait and basicaly go home after that run.

It seems to happen always after i ve taken a break.
I don't know what can be the cause of this - i ve tried variety of angles so far nothing that completely fixes it.
Now im at +17 / -16. Not sure what other relevant info is needed to identify this.

Maybe somebody had a similar issue that can help me out.
Cheers!


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## FLuiD

Height/Weight/Age/Stance Width/Years Riding??

I usually have a few Bloody Mary's and a safety meeting or 2 on lunch breaks. Seems to do the trick!!!


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## Guest

Height/Weight/Age/Stance Width/Years Riding??

i'm 26 at 5'10" 175lbs in my 3rd year of riding.
I'm not sure the exact measurements on my stance - i'll get a tape and check this out. The back binding is set one set of holes further back so i'm not completely centered - but doing that has made it more comfortbale to ride. Overall the stance is just wider than shoulder width, nothing crazy here.

I don't even know how to describe the feeling i get. It doesn't actually hurt at all up untill the muscle just completely curls up or whatever it does - then the pain just unbearable, I can't even bend my leg at that point. At that stage it feels very hard and is actually a very noticable lump if you put your hand on it.
Now I just leave the slopes when i feel that muscle acting up which is usualy a lot sooner than i would like.


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## Guest

sounds like binding settings, but you can always drink more water, eat a banana (potassium) and take some pain killers.


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## k2spitfire

the same thing was happening to me. It's simply a leg cramp from using the muscle too much so just simply start riding switch as soon as u get this cramp and it will defantly help the pain a lot this will also help u improve your switch riding. This is actualy the reason why i learned to ride switch.


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## TomNZ

Have you tried taking off your bindings and having a quick stretch after your first run in the morning? I find that can help to alleviate that tiredness and cramping later in the day, and a lot of people overlook it because they just want to get up the mountain and smash it again.


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## baldylox

Do you smoke?


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## Mr. Polonia

i usually experience leg cramps too but mostly after i take a lunch break after 4 or 5 hrs of riding and then get back on the slopes.
i would think its just muscle fatigue. for the first half of the day im constantly goin up and down the mountain non-stop and as soon as i take a break i get more tired.
so yea, thats my oinion on it. you might also take into mind about what kind of riding you do mostly, like for example yday when i went riding my mountain had nothing but moguls in it so that took a big toll on my fatigue


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## Guest

No I do not smoke or drink. Do these things affect cramps somehow?

Thanks for the input so far.

Couple of things i want to mention and point out again:
I DO NOT feel tired and/or cramped in any of my muscles. I feel no different than in the morning really. There is no pain either.
What i do have is a feeling of building up of tension in that quad muscle i was talking about (while i'm putting pressure on it) - if i let this tension build up all the way to the end by riding more, then it completely fails and seizes so i cant even move my leg. There is no painkiller that's going to help me with that. But before the seize happens - there is no pain.
And it always seem to happen on a run after i take a break.

Also, I play ice hockey so my legs have been in decent shape for some time now.

What binding issue could i be having?

thanks!


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## FoShizzle

Drink more water. If that doesn't help fix it, it might be your riding technique, or just overworking of that leg.


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## Mr. Polonia

the angle of your bindings and your stance can also be a key factor. the further your stance, the more stress u put on your thighs, and too big of your binding angle may cuz the same thing.

just try to experiment with the binding set up.


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## Mr. Polonia

Playing hockey, cross country cycling, swimming mountain climbing etc are all different sports in which your muscles are worked. if you played hockey for 20 yrs that doesnt mean that you wont be sore or tired after snowboarding. It all has to do with muscle memory.
im pretty sure that this is fatigue that ur experiencing. 
Make sure you drink lots of H2O to keep your body hydrated and have an occasional banana or 2 to cut down on cramps


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## baldylox

Yes. Smoking causes cramps. Drinking does not, to my knowledge. When you say you feel it building up do you mean that the muscle starts twitching and if you continue to work it then cramps? Instead of staying on one edge during long runouts I've learned to use a quick and light cross-under carve (without changing body direction) and can maintain speed just as well.


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## Guest

Yeah i supose you can say it's twitching - but not really painful kind of twitching, it just feels strange.

As for long run outs i didn't even hit any last time i was out, all my runs were very fast.
I'm still baffled as to why it only agitates after i've given my leg a break at lunch


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## noimdavid

I'm thinking it has to do with your stance width. I had a similar problem, although not as severe as yours. Try to mess around with that, maybe 1/2"-1" at a time. Also, haveing a stance centered on your board will make learning to ride switch much much easier.


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## earl_je

pg10 said:


> I'm trying to find an explanation for my quad cramp i experience every time i ride.
> 
> First half of the day i always feel great, then after i take a break for lunch or to just relax, the next run or two I get this strange feeling in my back legs inner thigh - area that is closest to the knee.
> Any time i put pressure on it it feels like the muscle is about to seize and it fact the very first time when i tried to ride through it, it ended up completely rolling up in a hard ball and caused immense pain. It doesn't feel tired and there is no "burn" but i can feel it pre-seizing so to speak so now i just have to fall down and wait and basicaly go home after that run.


That would be the medial head insertion of the hamstring. If thats the case, it needs to be stretched out a lot before riding. I take it, your hamstrings arent very flexible? It can also be the popliteous muscle, which rotates your tibia(lower leg bone) to lock upon end range extension(basically straightening your knee, lol). If this is so, then you might have a binding with too much forward cant/lean. Since your knee is flexed more than usual, your popliteus fires on random un-needed periods to help support the quads upon extension.



pg10 said:


> It seems to happen always after i ve taken a break.
> I don't know what can be the cause of this - i ve tried variety of angles so far nothing that completely fixes it.
> Now im at +17 / -16. Not sure what other relevant info is needed to identify this.


That would easily be due to lactic acid build up right after muscle exertion (nice way of saying your muscle is out of shape, same reason for DOMS). It wouldnt hurt as much with non-stop shredding because lactic acid wouldnt have enough time to settle. But as soon as you stop, the muscle starts to complain. Getting the muscle conditioned (jogging, squats, heel/toe raise) would easily aleviate this.

Other causes of cramps would be Calcium/Potassium imbalance, dehydration (been drinking the night before?) and just being out of shape.


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## Guest

cifex said:


> Yes. Smoking causes cramps. Drinking does not, to my knowledge. When you say you feel it building up do you mean that the muscle starts twitching and if you continue to work it then cramps? Instead of staying on one edge during long runouts I've learned to use a quick and light cross-under carve (without changing body direction) and can maintain speed just as well.


Drinking doesn't really cause cramps, but it can cause dehydration which leads to cramps. I feel a lot of people forget how much alcohol dehydrates you. Don't get me wrong either guys, I'm all for a few drinks, I just have a good amount of water before I hit the hill again.


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## Guest

earl_je said:


> That would be the medial head insertion of the hamstring. If thats the case, it needs to be stretched out a lot before riding. I take it, your hamstrings arent very flexible? It can also be the popliteous muscle, which rotates your tibia(lower leg bone) to lock upon end range extension(basically straightening your knee, lol). If this is so, then you might have a binding with too much forward cant/lean. Since your knee is flexed more than usual, your popliteus fires on random un-needed periods to help support the quads upon extension.
> 
> 
> That would easily be due to lactic acid build up right after muscle exertion (nice way of saying your muscle is out of shape, same reason for DOMS). It wouldnt hurt as much with non-stop shredding because lactic acid wouldnt have enough time to settle. But as soon as you stop, the muscle starts to complain. Getting the muscle conditioned (jogging, squats, heel/toe raise) would easily aleviate this.
> 
> Other causes of cramps would be Calcium/Potassium imbalance, dehydration (been drinking the night before?) and just being out of shape.


I think you are right - i just looked up a diagram and the muscle i speak of is called Vastus Medialis and it's main fuction is to extend the leg at knee.
Wonder what am i doing to put so much stress on it. I snowboard with lots friends whose only conditioning is walking and I do squats/lunges at the gym year round and play hockey half of the year. Yet I am the only one who experiences this problem.

Also my feet are a bit supinated, not sure if this affects anything in the quad or not.


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## earl_je

pg10 said:


> I think you are right - i just looked up a diagram and the muscle i speak of is called Vastus Medialis and it's main fuction is to extend the leg at knee.
> Wonder what am i doing to put so much stress on it. I snowboard with lots friends whose only conditioning is walking and I do squats/lunges at the gym year round and play hockey half of the year. Yet I am the only one who experiences this problem.
> 
> Also my feet are a bit supinated, not sure if this affects anything in the quad or not.


Might be you're heelsliding too exessively. Like I mentioned before, check your forward lean on your bindings also, too much forward lean from the ankle causes your knee to bend constantly and strain it a lot quicker.

Your Vastus Medialis Obliquus (VMO) not only helps extending your knee, it also controls normal smooth patellar glide before the knee even extends. Weak VMO muscle = Patello-femoral pain syndrome (doubt you have this since it would be a different type of pain)

Having supinated feet would also affect your knee and even your hip in the long run. You would inevitably have a decreased Q-angle (angle between your femur/upper leg bone and tibia/lower leg bone) which would strain the medial muscles a lot faster (try walking on the outside of your foot, your knee would get tired a lot faster). For this, you might want to try a narrower stance width.


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## Guest

What exactly is heelsliding?

My bindings' highback (if thats what you mean) is not set forward at all - its as far back as it goes. I will maybe try a narrower stance for next time. I was also thinking whether a smaller board will be better for me at 5 10 / 175lbs i ride a 159 board - wonder how much different a 155 or 156 would feel.

I also noticed that when i can feel the cramp coming on, if i try to make my leg completely straight even if im just sitting on the ground - it will seize. So i basically have to keep it bent while i'm resting.

Btw I appriciate all the suggestions.


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## earl_je

pg10 said:


> What exactly is heelsliding?
> 
> My bindings' highback (if thats what you mean) is not set forward at all - its as far back as it goes. I will maybe try a narrower stance for next time. I was also thinking whether a smaller board will be better for me at 5 10 / 175lbs i ride a 159 board - wonder how much different a 155 or 156 would feel.
> Btw I appriciate all the suggestions.


Heelsliding is basically when you go down the mountain ruddering your board using your heel side more. Its typical for people fairly new to the sport, instead of carving down, some would 'rudder' down. This leads to increased strain on your knee and ankle. 

On your previous post you mentioned your stance width is just outside shoulder length, can you measure it more accurately? Use a tape measure between the center of your binding discs (on the EST if you ride those) and post what the number is. I would suggest drastically cutting the width to see if it would make a big difference. If it keeps your knee from cramping, go an inch wider the following day. If it feels fine, go another inch but if not, go back half an inch.



pg10 said:


> I also noticed that when i can feel the cramp coming on, if i try to make my leg completely straight even if im just sitting on the ground - it will seize. So i basically have to keep it bent while i'm resting.


Sounds like a weak VMO muscle. Doesnt matter if you're athletic, this problem is fairly common even for sprinters and basketball players. Its typical for any muscle to seize (beggining of a cramp) when its shortened right after working it hard. It cramps if it's shortened beyond normal. How do you keep a muscle form cramping? elongate or stretch it (in the case of your knee, bend it to elongate the quads). Same is true for a muscle in a cramped state, deep pressure and stretch/elongate to inhibit muscle contraction.


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## Guest

Will ruddering cause you to do skid mostly? Cause i seem to skid quite a bit and i thought it may be part of the problem


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## baldylox

pg10 said:


> Will ruddering cause you to do skid mostly?


Yes. Ruddering is when you keep most of your weight on your downhill leg and swing the back leg back and forth to steer.


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## Guest

It just helps me keep my speed in check easier


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## earl_je

pg10 said:


> It just helps me keep my speed in check easier


If you aren't comfortable going fast and need to rudder, keep switching heelside and toeside, not just heel the whole time. Go fast more often then usual, learn how to carve next. :thumbsup:


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## Guest

I have the exact same problem. I'm glad I found this post of yours as I was about to make my own thread about it. Anyways, in my case it also usually happens around 3 hours into my snowboarding. Keeping myself hydrated with lots of water and a good amount of stretching (specifically our thigh portion) before and during boarding helps me out a lot.

From what I've read in this thread I really believe my case has to do with the way I steer (ruddering), whenever I catch a lot of speed I tend to excessively swing my back leg left and right to steer. The next time I hit the slopes I'm going to try to practice "carving" the right way and see if it helps alleviate the unnecessary cramps we seem to experience.

Let me know if you've found a solution too.

Cheers


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## nodaysoff

Sounds like a muscle contraction. I went thru this twice yesterday! Between shoveling in the cold, doing jumps, more shoveling, walking thru knee deep powder, then driving with my legs in a fixed position while still having my knee pads on i think blood circulation was minimal. shits painful.  i think cutting my legs off wouldve been less painful.

Best thing to do is to go somewhere warm, elevate your legs, streching helps once the *pain is gone*


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## dnguyenaz

Same thing happens to me. I seize up and just fall. I usually just sit in the snow and strech it out and once I feel it leave, I keep going(the pain usually doesnt reoccur).


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## Tremendum

pg10 said:


> No I do not smoke or drink. Do these things affect cramps somehow?
> 
> Thanks for the input so far.
> 
> Couple of things i want to mention and point out again:
> I DO NOT feel tired and/or cramped in any of my muscles. I feel no different than in the morning really. There is no pain either.
> What i do have is a feeling of building up of tension in that quad muscle i was talking about (while i'm putting pressure on it) - if i let this tension build up all the way to the end by riding more, then it completely fails and seizes so i cant even move my leg. There is no painkiller that's going to help me with that. But before the seize happens - there is no pain.
> And it always seem to happen on a run after i take a break.
> 
> Also, I play ice hockey so my legs have been in decent shape for some time now.
> 
> What binding issue could i be having?
> 
> thanks!


Not sure if you solved your problem yet... I have the same issue... usually I try to board until I am done for the day... If I have to stop and get back on it.. You are gonna have to do at least 4 or 5 runs before the muscle warm up again and that pain will go away... But I understand it so painful were you can't move sometimes I can't even get our of my bindings and I just lay there...


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## poutanen

^^^ Dis thread be 4 years dead!!! :blink:

That said, proper hydration and stretching should help. The only other thing I could see leading to a funny cramp is a bad stance or poor riding techniques...


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## wrathfuldeity

poutanen said:


> ^^^ Dis thread be 4 years dead!!! :blink:
> 
> That said, proper hydration and stretching should help. The only other thing I could see leading to a funny cramp is a bad stance or poor riding techniques...


but apparently newbs are still getting 4 year old cramps :icon_scratch:


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## East§ide

i cant speak to the reasons behind your thigh pain (I also have similar pain that usually only starts AFTER a break, but its generally the top of my rear quad and I assume I'm just getting tired from loading up on my back foot for ollies and kicking the tail around sometime for surf turns.. idk how else to explain it..

but.. I am 5'8, 180 and I ride 153's with no problem.. you could definitely downsize, though idk whether or not that would help with your muscle seizing.


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## tradnwaves4snow

East§ide said:


> i cant speak to the reasons behind your thigh pain..... you could definitely downsize, though idk whether or not that would help with your muscle seizing.


hes not coming back bro.


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## East§ide

Oops .. I got bored of the convo and stopped reading the replies . Ah well lol


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## tradnwaves4snow

or the date of the post


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