# Binding for carving a Burton Custom X



## 16gkid (Dec 5, 2012)

Fluxs are definitely a lively binding at the cost of dampening, I have some cartel X otw to me and im gonna assume they are stiffer than my malavitas, but the malas I think would work on most any setup. I would go for the Now's if you want a damp ride to save your knees, even the normal drives would be fine, footbeds are the comfiest but have less feel. Not a fan of unions so cant comment on those.


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## Rip154 (Sep 23, 2017)

well if you can still find the X-base from Burton, they are amazing


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## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

Snowplough said:


> My splitboard setup is rather stiff (for a split) with Jones Solution + *Spark Surge Pro *and that doesn’t feel to stiff / responsive, though I don’t know if that’s a fair comparison anyway.
> 
> It’s a long post and I guess there is no one conclusive answer, but I’d love to hear some of your thoughts!


Just get some Sparks solid board pucks (regular or canted) and use your surge pros. Or get real and change over to AT Atomic Backland/Phantom Slippers and then use Sparks Dyno DH and Spark Solid Board Pucks for solid boards.

Edit: Since your knees are a concern, just get some eva mat foam, cut out a pad that matches the baseplate of the Surge's and glue them on the baseplate with some contact cement. Works like a charm...at least that's what I did when I had my Spark AfterBurners and my knees and feet were much happier.

Spark R&D Spark Solid Board Pucks | evo

The hardboot ride...downhill? | Snowboarding Forum - Snowboard Enthusiast Forums


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## ridethecliche (Feb 27, 2019)

I would pick the cartel x for that board if you want to stay with burton. I think they're honestly the sweet spot in their lineup right now from a performance standpoint. The mission is the sweet spot from the priceerformance standpoint. The old rec of 'just get the cartel' is now to just get the mission IMHO. If you want more performance, Cartel X. If you want more performance while wanting some more versatility from your bindings, then maybe the malas since they're all mountain bindings that would likely work better in the park than the cartel x.



16gkid said:


> Fluxs are definitely a lively binding at the cost of dampening, I have some cartel X otw to me and im gonna assume they are stiffer than my malavitas, but the malas I think would work on most any setup. I would go for the Now's if you want a damp ride to save your knees, even the normal drives would be fine, footbeds are the comfiest but have less feel. Not a fan of unions so cant comment on those.


You're going to love the Cartel X. I'm considering selling my EST and reflex malavitas because the Cartel X just work that much better for me imho.


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## drblast (Feb 28, 2017)

I'd go for EST bindings for sure and find something else for your other boards. You don't need super stiff bindings to carve either, just not soft floppy ones. I'd go X if you can swing it, then Cartel X, then Genesis.

Burton's Spring Bed on the Custom X are by far the most fun and unique carving experience I've ever had on a board. But expensive because it's only on the X bindings.

Union Atlas would also work well on anything. I'd pick those before getting Re:flex anything. Unless they've changed things up very recently Re:flex discs are very soft and that affects the ride no matter how stiff the binding is, especially for a heavy rider.


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## Snowplough (Mar 5, 2021)

16gkid said:


> Fluxs are definitely a lively binding at the cost of dampening, I have some cartel X otw to me and im gonna assume they are stiffer than my malavitas, but the malas I think would work on most any setup. I would go for the Now's if you want a damp ride to save your knees, even the normal drives would be fine, footbeds are the comfiest but have less feel. Not a fan of unions so cant comment on those.


Thanks for your quick response,
Now that you put it that way... with Malavitas a good fit for most setups and Cartel X stiffer than that, it certainly sounds worth considering. Did you go with the EST or Re:Flex version of the cartel X byt the way?


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## Snowplough (Mar 5, 2021)

Rip154 said:


> well if you can still find the X-base from Burton, they are amazing


Thanks for the tip, as a matter of fact I could. In size L only, though. With size US 11 (EUR 44) I’m right at the border of the size though, and wonder whether M or L (or neither) would fit really well?
This one’s Re:Flex, would you consider it very different to the EST?


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## Snowplough (Mar 5, 2021)

wrathfuldeity said:


> Just get some Sparks solid board pucks (regular or canted) and use your surge pros. Or get real and change over to AT Atomic Backland/Phantom Slippers and then use Sparks Dyno DH and Spark Solid Board Pucks for solid boards.
> 
> Edit: Since your knees are a concern, just get some eva mat foam, cut out a pad that matches the baseplate of the Surge's and glue them on the baseplate with some contact cement. Works like a charm...at least that's what I did when I had my Spark AfterBurners and my knees and feet were much happier.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the great tip, didn’t think of that at all! I figured that regardless of whether I buy another set of bindings or not, the solid board pucks will make sense. Already ordered a set just now 

Might be worth trying with the EVA foam, too. Though, now that you mentioned it, the Surge Pros really aren’t that shock absorbent, and so far haven’t given me trouble. But even if the knees are fine for now, probably a good idea to avoid straining them too much.

Hardbooting sounds interesting, but I might leave that for the future phases of my snowboarding”career”


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## Snowplough (Mar 5, 2021)

drblast said:


> I'd go for EST bindings for sure and find something else for your other boards. You don't need super stiff bindings to carve either, just not soft floppy ones. I'd go X if you can swing it, then Cartel X, then Genesis.
> 
> Burton's Spring Bed on the Custom X are by far the most fun and unique carving experience I've ever had on a board. But expensive because it's only on the X bindings.
> 
> Union Atlas would also work well on anything. I'd pick those before getting Re:flex anything. Unless they've changed things up very recently Re:flex discs are very soft and that affects the ride no matter how stiff the binding is, especially for a heavy rider.


Thanks, good reasoning on those options.

Surely a medium stiff binding will be alright for carving, too - even my old Nitros work. I guess what I’m trying to figure out is if, with Custom X being a rather stiff board, I could get more out of it carvingwise with a super-responsive binding, or whether that’s more a matter of personal preference?

Sounds like out of these options I could go for:
1. X EST, for which there is an ok deal, though only in size M (which may be just right or too small for my size 11 Imperial 2016?). This would be the “ultimate setup” and at least for now just for the Custom X as it’s my only Burton.
2. Get the Cartel X and since it’s a pretty good deal, I could justify the EST version, even though I only have one board that it fits on.
3. Get the Atlas as an “allrounder”, see how I like it on Custom X and if later on I feel I’d like to try the something more responsive (or EST for board feel), I could easily use the Atlas on my other boards.


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## Snowplough (Mar 5, 2021)

ridethecliche said:


> I would pick the cartel x for that board if you want to stay with burton. I think they're honestly the sweet spot in their lineup right now from a performance standpoint. The mission is the sweet spot from the priceerformance standpoint. The old rec of 'just get the cartel' is now to just get the mission IMHO. If you want more performance, Cartel X. If you want more performance while wanting some more versatility from your bindings, then maybe the malas since they're all mountain bindings that would likely work better in the park than the cartel x.
> 
> 
> 
> You're going to love the Cartel X. I'm considering selling my EST and reflex malavitas because the Cartel X just work that much better for me imho.


Thanks,
Not that I necessarily want to stay with Burton for the bindings, but the Cartel X is definitely on the shortlist now. Since you have both EST and Re:Flex Malavites, which version of the Cartel X did you pick and why?


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## Rip154 (Sep 23, 2017)

Snowplough said:


> Thanks for the tip, as a matter of fact I could. In size L only, though. With size US 11 (EUR 44) I’m right at the border of the size though, and wonder whether M or L (or neither) would fit really well?
> This one’s Re:Flex, would you consider it very different to the EST?


us11 is nomansland with burton, but depends on the boots and board. not too much difference between re-flex and est. on the est version there is just foam under your feet, but its thin, so feels stiffer than re-flex.


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## ridethecliche (Feb 27, 2019)

Snowplough said:


> Thanks,
> Not that I necessarily want to stay with Burton for the bindings, but the Cartel X is definitely on the shortlist now. Since you have both EST and Re:Flex Malavites, which version of the Cartel X did you pick and why?


I picked the reflex cartel x but that's mostly because I only have 1 channel board in my rotation right now. I have a second one that's running olllllddd cartels. I just moved back to the old style cartels on my yup from the malavitas. I can see why people like them but I personally don't see the benefit.

I haven't done a true A/B trial, but I liked the supernaut a lot more with the Cartel X vs the malas, but I'd also moved the binding position
I think I prefer my yup with the old style cartels as well.


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## edi414 (Feb 20, 2018)

Depending on where you ride I wouldn’t necessarily recommend the Burton bindings. Whilst the bindings are super comfy and have amazing buckles I have experienced one major issue with them. In certain, warmer conditions snow gets stuck underneath the ‘pin’ that locks the ladder. When you then start riding and wind chill or dropping temperature is leading this snow to freeze your binding essentially is locked and super hard to open.

therefore throwing in the union Falcor which are slightly less stiff than the atlas fc but still super responsive and comfortable.


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## ridethecliche (Feb 27, 2019)

edi414 said:


> Depending on where you ride I wouldn’t necessarily recommend the Burton bindings. Whilst the bindings are super comfy and have amazing buckles I have experienced one major issue with them. In certain, warmer conditions snow gets stuck underneath the ‘pin’ that locks the ladder. When you then start riding and wind chill or dropping temperature is leading this snow to freeze your binding essentially is locked and super hard to open.
> 
> therefore throwing in the union Falcor which are slightly less stiff than the atlas fc but still super responsive and comfortable.


I've only ridden Burton bindings and this has never happened to me even at Jay Peak where I've ridden down into the single and even negative digits F. 

I mean I guess it could happen and sounds like you've experienced it... But isn't this something that could happen to any binding? Ie getting iced over?


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## Rip154 (Sep 23, 2017)

ridethecliche said:


> I've only ridden Burton bindings and this has never happened to me even at Jay Peak where I've ridden down into the single and even negative digits F.
> 
> I mean I guess it could happen and sounds like you've experienced it... But isn't this something that could happen to any binding? Ie getting iced over?


It's usually the doubletake toe buckle, happens alot in some conditions.


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## ridethecliche (Feb 27, 2019)

Rip154 said:


> It's usually the doubletake toe buckle, happens alot in some conditions.


Interesting... Looks like it would affect the Cartel X then too. 
I've only ridden the old cartels before this year so could explain why I haven't encountered this before!


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## rayt100 (Aug 29, 2016)

I've had the double take freeze and get stuck at Whistler. It was wet raining at lower elevation and froze at the top. I have Genesis X, Cartels and Malavitas and its only happened once. I've heard the double takes are more prone to freezing and getting stuck.


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## Snowplough (Mar 5, 2021)

edi414 said:


> Depending on where you ride I wouldn’t necessarily recommend the Burton bindings. Whilst the bindings are super comfy and have amazing buckles I have experienced one major issue with them. In certain, warmer conditions snow gets stuck underneath the ‘pin’ that locks the ladder. When you then start riding and wind chill or dropping temperature is leading this snow to freeze your binding essentially is locked and super hard to open.
> 
> therefore throwing in the union Falcor which are slightly less stiff than the atlas fc but still super responsive and comfortable.


Thanks for the suggestion,
How would you compare Falcor to (regular) Atlas? Based on what I read they seem to have similar level of responsiveness, but in different ways. Think I even saw it mentioned somewhere that one powers a stiffer board (i.e. CX) better, whereas the other’s responsiveness is more present with a relatively flexier board.
Falcor a has mini-disc and Atlas the normal disc, Union categorize Falcor as freestyle and Atlas as all-mountain, but gives them a similar stiffness rating...


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## edi414 (Feb 20, 2018)

Rip154 said:


> It's usually the doubletake toe buckle, happens alot in some conditions.


Yep, happened to me with different Burton bindings and always in warmer conditions. And I’ve tested it side by side in the same conditions where other bindings wouldn’t freeze...super annoying when you want to get in the lift and the bloody strap doesn’t open.




Snowplough said:


> Thanks for the suggestion,
> How would you compare Falcor to (regular) Atlas? Based on what I read they seem to have similar level of responsiveness, but in different ways. Think I even saw it mentioned somewhere that one powers a stiffer board (i.e. CX) better, whereas the other’s responsiveness is more present with a relatively flexier board.
> Falcor a has mini-disc and Atlas the normal disc, Union categorize Falcor as freestyle and Atlas as all-mountain, but gives them a similar stiffness rating...


Haven’t ridden the atlas. But as you said the falcor have mini disc vs normal disc on the atlas. Think on paper the falcor sits in between the atlas and atlas fc in terms of flex, I.e. somewhat stiffer than normal atlas. The mini disc is meant to provide better board feel, hence the categorisation as freestyle. I don’t do jumps etc and am really happy with the falcor as an all mountain / freeride binding


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## Jack87 (Jan 9, 2021)

ridethecliche said:


> Interesting... Looks like it would affect the Cartel X then too.
> I've only ridden the old cartels before this year so could explain why I haven't encountered this before!


Older Cartels had Double Take buckles but as far as I know last year and this year both x and non x are regular straps (not double take).


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## ridethecliche (Feb 27, 2019)

Pretty sure my cartel x have the diagonal straps but I could just be making it all up 😂😂😂


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## Jack87 (Jan 9, 2021)

ridethecliche said:


> Pretty sure my cartel x have the diagonal straps but I could just be making it all up 😂😂😂


You're making it up.


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## rayt100 (Aug 29, 2016)

The Burton site has all the specs, looks like Cartel x has smooth take buckles not double take, Also I wouldn't worry about the buckles getting stuck unless you ride extreme varying conditions ex. wet slush lower elevation freezing on upper mountain.


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## ridethecliche (Feb 27, 2019)

Jack87 said:


> You're making it up.


Yup I was. The straps are upgraded but not the buckles. The DT buckles on the malas are a pain till they break in anyway.


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## Snowplough (Mar 5, 2021)

A little slow with the follow-up, but now I've finally made up my mind, ordered and received everything and have some experience with my new setup.

I eventually went for X EST bindings in size large and also updated my booths to K2 Thraxis, size US 10.5, to go with that 162W Custom X.

Overall, the setup feels really solid. Easy and fun to ride both early morning hardpack and the afternoon slush. That said, I don't think I've had the courage and skill to make the most of this energetic and responsive combo yet. 

Sizewise, the Large X EST could not be any larger. The ankle strap has plenty of range left, but the toe strap is adjusted to its smallest and still doesn't feel like it gets very tight. I haven't noticed it being loose while riding, though, so maybe that's just how it is. 

On the deeper heelside carves I've also booted out quite a few times (i.e. the heelcup of the binding has caught up with the snow, not sure I'm using the correct terminology here...). I've tried to mitigate the problem by moving the bindings towards the toeside and also by using bigger stance angles, but with EST there seems to be a limit on how far you can adjust (= the bigger the angles, the less heel-toe adjustability there is). Additionally, even if I could move the bindings further to the toeside, I'm close to starting to have binding overhang, so there's another limit. It works as is, though, so maybe I'll just continue to learn on it and tweak the angles etc. as I go. 

The K2 Thraxis boots have been a really good addition to the board and bindings. Stiff, but comfortable from day 1! I've noticed some mention pressure points from that internal boa, but apparently not in my case. Sizing down from US11 Burton to US 10.5 wasn't too much - over time the liners might even pack enough that I could've had a size 10. But for now it feels just right.

Without question the Custom X - X EST - Thraxis combo is the best all-mountain setup I've had so far. Though I have to say that the couple of weeks I rode the Custom X with the Surge Pro bindings (+ my old Imperials) felt really good, too. Even seemed that I don't boot out on the heelside like I do with the X EST now - or perhaps I'm just carving that bit deeper?

Anyway, thanks everyone for good suggestions and insights!


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## Phedder (Sep 13, 2014)

Yeah you should definitely be in a medium for EST, otherwise that's one hell of a responsive set up and should serve you well for a long time coming!


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## ridethecliche (Feb 27, 2019)

Yeah, agree with above that you probably should be in a medium binding.

Also EST angles are much more limiting than reflex. If you're going double positive to any real degree, then I think reflex is better suited for it. If your front foot is less than 30ish then EST is fine iirc.


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## Snowplough (Mar 5, 2021)

That really seems to be the case. Right now I have around +24/+9 and at least the front binding pushed as far toeside as it goes. No issues with toeside carves, but on the heelside I have to limit how much I lean into it. There is room to increase the angles a little more, but that would also move the binding towards the heelside. 

So do you reckon I wouldn't have the issue with a size M binding?


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## Phedder (Sep 13, 2014)

Snowplough said:


> That really seems to be the case. Right now I have around +24/+9 and at least the front binding pushed as far toeside as it goes. No issues with toeside carves, but on the heelside I have to limit how much I lean into it. There is room to increase the angles a little more, but that would also move the binding towards the heelside.
> 
> So do you reckon I wouldn't have the issue with a size M binding?


Granted I'm in a size 9 boot so medium is a no brainer for me, but I've had my fish and old archetype set up between 25-30 degrees on the front foot and binding pushed pretty far forward. Barely any heelcup overhang and never dug in my front heelcup, was always the rear. In a size 10.5 boot I don't think you'd need to push it as far toeside to get it centered as I did, and since you won't have to max out the toeside travel of the binding it would leave you more room to adjust binding angles.


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## ridethecliche (Feb 27, 2019)

I'm an 8 in boots and I'm pretty sure I could use Small bindings, but I like boards with a 255-260WW so the mediums are a better fit imho.


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## Rip154 (Sep 23, 2017)

K2 boots have more heel than Burton at least, and the large bindings are set pretty far back to allow larger boots.


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