# Carving up a lip/bank toeside and riding down heel side



## EatMyTracers (Sep 26, 2012)

All I can say is start on smaller banks. I remember having this problem for along time also.


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## Donutz (May 12, 2010)

Do you mean going up regular and coming down switch? Or doing a 180 at the top? Or just doing a sharp turn at the top?


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## wildshoetwt (Feb 14, 2013)

Donutz said:


> Do you mean going up regular and coming down switch? Or doing a 180 at the top? Or just doing a sharp turn at the top?


Doing a sharp turn or even a gradual turn.


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## ShredLife (Feb 6, 2010)

watch a bunch of video of surfers doing cutbacks. 

go to snow.

slash POW.


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## david_z (Dec 14, 2009)

as you're reaching the apex you can just engage the heel edge just like you're making a heelside stop (left, for regular rider), that should easily give you like 90-135 degree "rotation" that will be enough to position you to ride down the bank in your normal forward stance. you can style this out like a powerslide, a layback, but gravity ultimately takes over you just need to make sure you carry across the fall line (for lack of a better term) and you'll be properly oriented to ride down the bank coming out. 

I guess it seems a little tricky at first because you're like, braking, but going "uphill" at that particular moment.


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## nzshred (Jun 3, 2009)

The reason instructors won't teach you is probably either because they've seen your ability already and don't want to say "You're not at the required level yet, you need to work on other things first" or it's not something they often teach, so they are unfamiliar with a progression they can use to teach you.

In reality, these types of maneuvers come from experience and understanding of how a board moves on snow in relation to the movements you make.

I'm not sure if I fully understand what you're after but here's a small progression you could use:
Practice super fast speed checks on the flat ground, but let the heel edge engage and carry you in a new direction. Slowly progress it to side banks, by riding up on a low angle, then turning and let the board ride back down the fall line on your heel edge. As you start to get it steeper you will need to skid/slide the first 90+desgrees of the turn by turning you upper body into the turn first and then letting your legs snap back round underneath you following your upper body.
The steeper the hill the more aggressive the turn needs to be, and eventually, as you've already been told, once you're going at a high angle up the hill you'll find you will need to lean backwards down the hill - you can think about dragging your rear hand if it help.

Possibly the best way to learn these types of things is by watching others and trying to mimic their movements as well. Where abouts do you currently ride?


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## wildshoetwt (Feb 14, 2013)

david_z said:


> as you're reaching the apex you can just engage the heel edge just like you're making a heelside stop (left, for regular rider), that should easily give you like 90-135 degree "rotation" that will be enough to position you to ride down the bank in your normal forward stance. you can style this out like a powerslide, a layback, but gravity ultimately takes over you just need to make sure you carry across the fall line (for lack of a better term) and you'll be properly oriented to ride down the bank coming out.
> 
> I guess it seems a little tricky at first because you're like, braking, but going "uphill" at that particular moment.


Is there a trick to not falling backwards or losing all of your speed?


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## nzshred (Jun 3, 2009)

wildshoetwt said:


> Is there a trick to not falling backwards or losing all of your speed?



Momentum. It's like running and sliding, the faster you go, the further back you can lean without falling over.

So until you want that heel edge to fully engage (once your board is pointing back down the hill) don't pull the toes up so hard and just let the board skid.


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## wildshoetwt (Feb 14, 2013)

nzshred said:


> The reason instructors won't teach you is probably either because they've seen your ability already and don't want to say "You're not at the required level yet, you need to work on other things first" or it's not something they often teach, so they are unfamiliar with a progression they can use to teach you.
> 
> In reality, these types of maneuvers come from experience and understanding of how a board moves on snow in relation to the movements you make.
> 
> ...


Thanks I think the issue is that I don't have enough speed on these, and the second I apply the heel side I'm falling backwards/sideways i.e. being stopped or turned by the hill itself

I'm in CA


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## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

speed...but also depends on how high on the wall/bank ur riding up the bank with toeside nose engaged...weight forward then immediately shifting your weight back/aft to heelside tail....then the tough part (at least for me) is moving quickly back to center and then getting on the nose toeside


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## Donutz (May 12, 2010)

wildshoetwt said:


> Thanks I think the issue is that I don't have enough speed on these, and the second I apply the heel side I'm falling backwards/sideways i.e. being stopped or turned by the hill itself
> 
> I'm in CA


Yeah, you're probably going into the turn too late, when you have very little momentum left.

IMO going up the sides of the run like this is a very good exercise for getting more skill with your board. You have to learn to handle bumps, dips, and get used to staying upright in less than ideal angles.


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## crash77 (Jan 24, 2011)

Is this kind of what he's talking about. I've seen guys do this on the lip of half pipes at times.

cutback under blue sky at Saas Fee - YouTube


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## ShredLife (Feb 6, 2010)

crash77 said:


> Is this kind of what he's talking about. I've seen guys do this on the lip of half pipes at times.
> 
> cutback under blue sky at Saas Fee - YouTube


hahaha they're even calling it a cutback and bumpin surfin' usa :laugh: toldja.

the other day one of my old riding buddies who charges pretty damn hard said to me he wished he had backside slashers looking as good as mine.... i damn near shed a tear - what a compliment! :bowdown::bowdown::bowdown:


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## edlo (Jan 24, 2011)

nzshred said:


> Momentum. It's like running and sliding, the faster you go, the further back you can lean without falling over.
> 
> So until you want that heel edge to fully engage (once your board is pointing back down the hill) don't pull the toes up so hard and just let the board skid.


All of this is now making sense to me. I tried this in a giant half pipe years ago as others made it look so easy. The first time I rode up, got scared and was held toe edge on a pretty much vertical surface. The second time, I tried a jump turn but jumped away from the wall and was lucky I didn't break anything. That was the second and last time I tried it. It never even crossed my mind until now. Now that it is explained I think I will try it again. I hope I don't knock myself out. :dizzy:


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## edlo (Jan 24, 2011)

Snowolf said:


> On a pipe or a feature with a vertical wall, do not pop off of the wall as this can push you far enough from the wall as to make it impossible to reengage the wall and free fall to flat. Instead, do the retraction (suck your legs up away from the wall).





nzshred said:


> Momentum. It's like running and sliding, the faster you go, the further back you can lean without falling over.


All of this is now making sense to me. I tried this in a giant half pipe 10 years ago as others made it look so easy. The first time I rode up, got scared and was held toe edge on a pretty much vertical surface. The second time, I tried a jump turn but jumped away from the wall and was lucky I didn't break anything. That was the second and last time I tried it. It never even crossed my mind until now. Now that it is explained I think I will try it again. I hope I don't knock myself out. :dizzy:


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## nzshred (Jun 3, 2009)

By the way, Snowolf's description is for learning to turn on a pipe wall, mine is more directed at a progression to a slash on any steep wall, like in the "cutback" video posted above.

I'm not sure which one it is you were looking to accomplish, so just want to clear that up. Both are beneficial to each other, but have different goals and outcomes.


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## stillz (Jan 5, 2010)

It's tricky because your relationship to the fall line changes drastically when you ride up a banked wall, even if your momentum is relatively constant. If your mountain has a small half pipe, ride that. If you don't have access to one, just try riding a comfortable distance up the wall, and ride a flat board down. Just go up, then let gravity do its thing. It will give you a decent idea of when and how you can safely change edges.


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## wildshoetwt (Feb 14, 2013)

nzshred said:


> By the way, Snowolf's description is for learning to turn on a pipe wall, mine is more directed at a progression to a slash on any steep wall, like in the "cutback" video posted above.
> 
> I'm not sure which one it is you were looking to accomplish, so just want to clear that up. Both are beneficial to each other, but have different goals and outcomes.


that became clear haha, yours was more wat i was looking for, thanks for that it worked great today, it was a matter of lack of speed, lack of rotation, lack of skid to initiate the turn, basically i was trying to literally make a sharp carve rather than a slash, which is probably not advisable.


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