# Ankle Sprain - been 5 months - anything other treatment than physio?



## Littlebigdreams

I am just wondering if anyone has recovered from an ankle sprain injury and what approaches they used to heal their ankles? Is there anything other than Physio that I can look into so that I can recover quicker for the winter season?

I sprained my ankle while snowboarding about 5 months ago. I am getting physio treatment on a regular basis and also exercise the ankle every day whenever I can (following my physiotherapist's advices). I know over time I should see improvements but I haven't gotten any progress yet :dunno:. 

Basically I was using super worn out boots that had no ankle support. I pulled a 3 off a medium jump on the last day of the season and the slush conditions slowed me down while taking off and I landed slightly on the flats. My ankles somehow twisted and I rolled my ankle inwards (eversion sprain) and now I'm getting pain every time I stretch my foot toward the 11 o'clock position or if I jump and land heavily on my toe side.


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## poutanen

:blink:

If you've had no progress for 5 months, I'd get a second opinion. Could be a tendon or something that won't heal without surgery... See another doc!


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## karkis

Ankles are slow to heal up, theyre also a pretty complicated joint that docs often misdiagnose. i sprained? an ankle pretty badly once and it took 10 years to get to 97% recovery.
but if you're seeing zero progress after 5 mo.s you should be seeing a doc about it. potentially you may have fractured your talus, x rays sometimes miss that. the bone would set over 5 mo but maybe poorly. Fusion is often presented as the best option but if you can find an exceptional orthopod they should be able to offer other ideas to keep it moving.


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## Flee21

poutanen said:


> :blink:
> 
> If you've had no progress for 5 months, I'd get a second opinion. Could be a tendon or something that won't heal without surgery... See another doc!



I second that. 5 months for a sprain is excessive. Seems like you might have done more damage than just a sprain.


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## Psi-Man

If it's a high ankle sprain it will take a long time to heal....up to a year.


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## Flee21

Guess the better question would be what degree sprain was it and type (high/low) when you saw the doc?


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## chomps1211

poutanen said:


> :blink:
> 
> If you've had no progress for 5 months, I'd get a second opinion. Could be a tendon or something that won't heal without surgery... See another doc!





Flee21 said:


> I second that. 5 months for a sprain is excessive. Seems like you might have done more damage than just a sprain.





Flee21 said:


> Guess the better question would be what degree sprain was it and type (high/low) when you saw the doc?


+1 to all three! Both my ankles have been sprained multiple times! Don't remember which was which but One was done twice, the other thrice! Two of those times required casting! ...that was many years ago in service. guess they no longer do that unless maybe for 3rd degree sprain/ or ligament separation!? Last two times, I just got the velcro n plastic brace!

Never got any phisio for the first time, and the day after the cast was removed,.. I had to do a 25 mi. Forced march. 30-50 lb ruck. In Combat boots! 

I have known people to walk around for weeks and months on _Broken_ ankles, and never know it! Get another check up!


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## areveruz

All the advice already given has been spot on. Back in the day during football I got lazy and wasn't paying attention during practice which resulted in an inversion sprain. I decided to just suck it up and just play through it. Ended up tearing some stuff up and even then never really did anything about it. Just wore a super stiff brace all the time. Then when Basketball came in the picture I probably rolled that ankle at least once per practice/game even wearing high tops due to the fact that I never let it heal properly so it can't support the quick changes in directions. Now it clicks and grinds whenever I rotate it. 

Long story short, don't be a schmuck like myself. Go get another opinion and see what they have to say. You should definitely see improvement after five months. Also, get some new boots.


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## timmytard

I have a bum right wheel, stepped on a rusty nail as a kid & my entire heel bone turned to custard, with a thin egg shell like bit keeping it from collapsing.:thumbsdown:

8 years later, when the figured it out, I had my heel bone hollowed out.
They didn't close it back up, they cleaned out the inside of it for 2 months until it closed on it's own.

Watching big roach clips with a cotton ball on the end disappear into your foot, is something you don't forget:thumbsdown:

:thumbsdown:The scar is massive:blowup: & finding comfy stiff boots is tough.

From now on you are only going to buy really stiff boots, you have too.
Next time you do that to your ankle it'll take 3rice as long to heal.

Stiff boots will 90% prevent that, but there's still a chance.

I did pretty much the same thing a long time ago, over shot the landing & ate shit big time. 
My knee touched the nose of my board & tore up my ankle.

Almost my whole season went down the shitter.

I couldn't take it after a while, I needed to get back out there for some spring riding.

I couldn't barely walk in normal shoes, if I stepped on so much as an ant my ankle would roll over.

This worked so well I couldn't believe it

I bought an air-cast, it has an air bladder supported by rigid plastic.
Your leg bone would probably snap before one of these things.

Just make sure you have the bladder full enough so that no plastic touches your ankle when the air gets compressed from riding.
This is a must do thing or prepare for agony:dizzy:

Once you have that dialed in, you need to find a fairly soft boot that is @ least one size bigger. Fairly soft because it'll hurt like a som bitch trying to get your foot in something stiff.

Your foot with the air-cast on it should fit in there & the stiffness of the air-cast will make up for the soft boot.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/16/Fr-voila.ogg

All I could really do was stand there & lean slightly to each side to carve, couldn't hit jumps or even go that fast, mostly out of fear that my ankle might explode.

But that didn't matter, I was back on the hill riding in sunny spring:yahoo::thumbsup:


TT


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## Littlebigdreams

timmytard said:


> I have a bum right wheel, stepped on a rusty nail as a kid & my entire heel bone turned to custard, with a thin egg shell like bit keeping it from collapsing.:thumbsdown:
> 
> 8 years later, when the figured it out, I had my heel bone hollowed out.
> They didn't close it back up, they cleaned out the inside of it for 2 months until it closed on it's own.
> 
> Watching big roach clips with a cotton ball on the end disappear into your foot, is something you don't forget:thumbsdown:
> 
> :thumbsdown:The scar is massive:blowup: & finding comfy stiff boots is tough.
> 
> From now on you are only going to buy really stiff boots, you have too.
> Next time you do that to your ankle it'll take 3rice as long to heal.
> 
> Stiff boots will 90% prevent that, but there's still a chance.
> 
> I did pretty much the same thing a long time ago, over shot the landing & ate shit big time.
> My knee touched the nose of my board & tore up my ankle.
> 
> Almost my whole season went down the shitter.
> 
> I couldn't take it after a while, I needed to get back out there for some spring riding.
> 
> I couldn't barely walk in normal shoes, if I stepped on so much as an ant my ankle would roll over.
> 
> This worked so well I couldn't believe it
> 
> I bought an air-cast, it has an air bladder supported by rigid plastic.
> Your leg bone would probably snap before one of these things.
> 
> Just make sure you have the bladder full enough so that no plastic touches your ankle when the air gets compressed from riding.
> This is a must do thing or prepare for agony:dizzy:
> 
> Once you have that dialed in, you need to find a fairly soft boot that is @ least one size bigger. Fairly soft because it'll hurt like a som bitch trying to get your foot in something stiff.
> 
> Your foot with the air-cast on it should fit in there & the stiffness of the air-cast will make up for the soft boot.
> 
> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/16/Fr-voila.ogg
> 
> All I could really do was stand there & lean slightly to each side to carve, couldn't hit jumps or even go that fast, mostly out of fear that my ankle might explode.
> 
> But that didn't matter, I was back on the hill riding in sunny spring:yahoo::thumbsup:
> 
> 
> TT


Thanks man, and thank everyone else for your suggestions.

I'm going to see a podiatrist tomorrow and see what they say. I bought a pair of Nike Kaiju recently, it's not the stiffest of boots but should have much more ankle support than my previous DC park. If they don't work out when the season starts then I'll have to get even stiffer boots somewhere.

The air cast idea sounds interesting, I'll look into that as well!


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## ARSENALFAN

I am 41 and have rolled my left ankle about 12 times in the last 15 years. The last time I rolled it was in June. I didn't notice any imorovement for nearly 2.5 months. It was the first time that I didn't recover within a week or two. I was quite scared and decided on the physio route. Physio was just ok but didn't take away the main problems. I hired a personal trainer for a few sessions - not specifically to deal with ankle - and after a few sessions woke up one day a week or two back 90% better. I think it had to do with the numerous squats he was getting me to do. So that is something you may want to try. You don't need weights - your own body weight can suffice. I think the squats worked the foot somehow.


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## Littlebigdreams

ARSENALFAN said:


> I am 41 and have rolled my left ankle about 12 times in the last 15 years. The last time I rolled it was in June. I didn't notice any imorovement for nearly 2.5 months. It was the first time that I didn't recover within a week or two. I was quite scared and decided on the physio route. Physio was just ok but didn't take away the main problems. I hired a personal trainer for a few sessions - not specifically to deal with ankle - and after a few sessions woke up one day a week or two back 90% better. I think it had to do with the numerous squats he was getting me to do. So that is something you may want to try. You don't need weights - your own body weight can suffice. I think the squats worked the foot somehow.


I've actually been already working on some weight bearing exercises. 

The thing is though, my ankle sprain is an eversion sprain (on the inside), not an inversion (on the outside which is more common). So my ankles are perfectly functional for normal activities, including squats or running. I only feel pain when I point and stretch my foot upwards toward 11-12 o'clock positions. Or when I lean against a wall like this image. 

http://rochester.radishmagazine.com/images/stories/online_wall_pushup_1351615839_1.jpg

I can snowboard in my current condition but I KNOW that if I just take one bad landing and stretch my ankle, I will be in for weeks of pain =( 

I'm hoping to recover before the season starts since park and freestyle are 70% of the fun for me on the mountains.


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## Deacon

Somebody else said it, but you very likely have that fractured talus. It's common amongst snowboarding ankle injuries, and it was the first thing they checked me for when I snapped my Achilles. Thankfully, mine was intact, so I cannot speak to the treatment, but make sure the podiatrist understands what/how happened.


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## Littlebigdreams

Yikes, I hope I don't have a fractured talus, because the season is coming up =(


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## Littlebigdreams

Just an update... the podiatrist basically only looked at my ankle and asked me to go get an x-ray. I will have to visit him again next week for another check up. 

I do feel like it might be a fractured talus because that's exactly the location where the pain is. But I'm able to run and do normal day-to-day and even snowboarded with this injury in the summer. So maybbbbe it's just a really bad sprain :dunno: I guess I won't know till I see the podiatrist again next week.


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## SnowOwl

Time and patience. Calf/hamstring exercises help a lot to strengthen the surrounding muscle tissue. Last season I broke my ankle, hyper extended my big toe, and broke that as well. Tore muscle tissue all the way up into my calf. The best solution is to let the bitch heal. Wrap it, ice it, and therapy it. It's the best way. Chiropractic adjustments help a lot as well


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## Unkept Porpoise

go for acupuncture. It can really help speed up the healing for long term sprains etc. like yours.


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## TorpedoVegas

last September I strained my achilles when I rolled my ankle on a hike. I found it didn't get any better at all until I started wearing shoes with good arch support and ankle support. I bought a pair of K2 Thraxis boots, thinking that the super stiff boot would help and still let me snowboard. All season the only pain I had was when I was putting my boots on and pulling them off, because my ankle only really hurt when stretched in the way you mentioned above. I found that stretching them a bit before putting the boots on also helped. I rode 30 days last season and never had any pain while riding, but my ankle still hurt until April or May of this year. Tendons are a bitch.


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## SnowOwl

TorpedoVegas said:


> last September I strained my achilles when I rolled my ankle on a hike. I found it didn't get any better at all until I started wearing shoes with good arch support and ankle support. I bought a pair of K2 Thraxis boots, thinking that the super stiff boot would help and still let me snowboard. All season the only pain I had was when I was putting my boots on and pulling them off, because my ankle only really hurt when stretched in the way you mentioned above. I found that stretching them a bit before putting the boots on also helped. I rode 30 days last season and never had any pain while riding, but my ankle still hurt until April or May of this year. Tendons are a bitch.


lol that's what I did with my broken ankle, and I was able to get in 29 days :thumbsup:


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## seant46

Unkept Porpoise said:


> go for acupuncture. It can really help speed up the healing for long term sprains etc. like yours.


I would give this a try, im going to myself. Sprained my ankle 14 months ago and hasnt been the same since. It may be scar tissue that is causing the pain now if you already checked that its not fractured. I can feel a hard lump of tissue if I dig deep thats causing my pain so hopefully sticking some needles in it will help.

Edit: Ive also heard of dry needling that might work better:dunno:


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## jml22

It takes 6-8 weeks for areas to heal, the pain isn't coming from damage to an area now. It's most likely because your muscles aren't controlling the joints properly and they're banging around against each other. For most ankle sprains you need to shut down activity so the ligaments can heal. In that time you can do rehab on the hip and lower leg, which will help you bounce back 100 times faster than sitting around doing nothing. 

You need to find someone competent to manage your rehab to get your muscles firing the way they should again. When your muscles don't fire properly/in order, stuff bangs against each other causing your pain. Only way to fix it is to retrain those patterns.
Sean i sent you a message, hope you're doing ok!


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## seant46

jml22 said:


> It takes 6-8 weeks for areas to heal, the pain isn't coming from damage to an area now. It's most likely because your muscles aren't controlling the joints properly and they're banging around against each other. For most ankle sprains you need to shut down activity so the ligaments can heal. In that time you can do rehab on the hip and lower leg, which will help you bounce back 100 times faster than sitting around doing nothing.
> 
> You need to find someone competent to manage your rehab to get your muscles firing the way they should again. When your muscles don't fire properly/in order, stuff bangs against each other causing your pain. Only way to fix it is to retrain those patterns.
> Sean i sent you a message, hope you're doing ok!


Thanks man I replied. Really do appreciate all the help and being able to vent about my knees over the last few months!


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## Littlebigdreams

seant46 said:


> Thanks man I replied. Really do appreciate all the help and being able to vent about my knees over the last few months!


haha i realized nowadays that finding someone competent is difficult.


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## jml22

Where do you live


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## Littlebigdreams

I live in Vancouver, Canada. 

I've actually visited a few physiotherapists. The thing with my injury is the sprain actually does not affect my ankle's daily range of motions, I can basically do everything from running to basketball without problems (although I will sometimes aggravate the ankle with slight sharp pain). 

Most conventional strengthening exercises I've tried are pretty easy and I haven't really found any good exercises. The location of the pain is exactly where the "fractured talus" images show if I do a random google search.

A podiatrist has lined me up for a MRI scan but this will take 6 months before I get my spot on the waiting list.

In the meantime I think I'll still ride but just won't take any chances with bigger jumps in the park =(


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## boarderaholic

Have any of you guys tried riding with an ankle brace? Apparently I buggered up my ankle pretty bad, and my therapist mentioned the idea of wearing a brace, depending on how physio is going.


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## jml22

Depends what's wrong with your ankle man.
5 months is a long time for healing so limiting the range of motion isn't that big of a deal. The ligament should be healed as much as it's going to heal.
If it's still swollen a bunch , ya i would brace it but limiting dorsiflexion when riding would be a huge pain in the ass. You're going to end up hurting your leg or back.
Just for the record, rehabbing ankles you should feel results within like 1-2 weeks. If you dont feel better at all in that time, your physio isn't doing his/her job very well


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## tonicusa

Take this comment with a grain of salt because I'm not very knowledgeable about this like some of the other guys here. But I just got over an ankle sprain about this time last season. And I found I had to ride through some pain to get back to "normal". I was a little nervous at first that maybe I was doing the wrong thing. But after 3 weeks on the mountain I was good. I think you have to carefully push yourself and stop at some point if you don't turn the corner. That was my experience, not sure if the advice will be helpful.


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## poutanen

boarderaholic said:


> Have any of you guys tried riding with an ankle brace? Apparently I buggered up my ankle pretty bad, and my therapist mentioned the idea of wearing a brace, depending on how physio is going.


Screwed up my ankle last year just before heading to Vancouver. I asked a sports therapist what was okay, and she said the ankle is fairly well protected in snowboard boots anyway. I had a mild injury though, some good swelling and pain about 4/10 at the worst... Was able to ride out of it and it fixed itself.


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## boarderaholic

poutanen said:


> Screwed up my ankle last year just before heading to Vancouver. I asked a sports therapist what was okay, and she said the ankle is fairly well protected in snowboard boots anyway. I had a mild injury though, some good swelling and pain about 4/10 at the worst... Was able to ride out of it and it fixed itself.


I don't know if "partial ligament tear" counts as minor :blink:


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## jml22

When you say sprain, you imply partial ligament tear


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## poutanen

boarderaholic said:


> I don't know if "partial ligament tear" counts as minor :blink:


Don't be a pussy!!! Oh yeah, wait... :dunno::icon_scratch:

I'm not sure how you'd even fit a brace inside a boot. The boot should act as a brace anyway. How does it feel walking now?


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## jml22

Him saying you need a brace makes me think he doesn't know what snowboarding is like at all.
You get barely and dorsi flexion it's just that it's weight bearing. Which a brace won't help you with at all


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## boarderaholic

jml22 said:


> Him saying you need a brace makes me think he doesn't know what snowboarding is like at all.
> You get barely and dorsi flexion it's just that it's weight bearing. Which a brace won't help you with at all


I'm just going to sit here and laugh AT you...


Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


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## scotty100

Littlebigdreams said:


> I live in Vancouver, Canada.
> 
> I've actually visited a few physiotherapists. The thing with my injury is the sprain actually does not affect my ankle's daily range of motions, I can basically do everything from running to basketball without problems (although I will sometimes aggravate the ankle with slight sharp pain).
> 
> Most conventional strengthening exercises I've tried are pretty easy and I haven't really found any good exercises. The location of the pain is exactly where the "fractured talus" images show if I do a random google search.
> 
> A podiatrist has lined me up for a MRI scan but this will take 6 months before I get my spot on the waiting list.
> 
> In the meantime I think I'll still ride but just won't take any chances with bigger jumps in the park =(


6 months for an MRI? Ouch. First thing go to a good sports medicine doc and get x rays. Rule out fracture. Then continue with physio. I doubt you'll miss the season. I've had numerous high ankle sprains and talus problems. Do proper physio, strengthen your core muscles, leg muscles, get on the bosu ball and build your ankle strength and stability slowly. If you can run on it right now you are probably ok. Strap it up tight and go board.


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## jml22

boarderaholic said:


> I'm just going to sit here and laugh AT you...
> 
> 
> Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


Why.......


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## seant46

If it was me Id throw a tensor bandage on it-can probably still fit that in your boots.

When I first sprained my ankle it was the usual one when it gets rolled over, but I sprained it again the opposite way where it gets bent in on itself while snowboarding and I think a tensor might have helped prevent it since it didnt really heal well. I dont ride soft boots and it still happened, but it did take a very hard landing on my toes to bend in itself.

My problem might be different though, I think the sprain itself has healed and it was scar tissue getting pinched. This week I started rolling a screwdriver over the lump(my ghetto self physiotherapy..) and I think its helping but its hard to tell it hasnt been long since I started that.


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## boarderaholic

jml22 said:


> Why.......


Because I actually DO know what "snowboarding is like." I also know that when I am being taught new riding techniques by instructors that are more advanced that I am, I know I am going to rotate, flex and basically USE my ankle. I also know that a brace is not necessarily the correct solution to help my ankle heal and give my ankle support while I am out snowboarding, which is why I asked if anybody had ridden with a brace, to begin with. It is a VERY tall order to just assume that someone does not know what they are doing based on one question, and I highly recommend you think about what you reply with next time, BEFORE you hit the reply button.


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## jml22

I suggest you re-read and realize i was talking about the therapist. I didnt imply you don't know what you're doing when you're riding.
A snowboard boot is essentially a giant ankle brace already. You can't invert or evert your ankle more than a few degrees and your dorsi flexion is probably 1/4 of what it should be. 
Now saying that, losing that amount of dorsiflexion and rotation = forces will get loaded onto your knee hips and back. That's something i wouldn't be willing to sacrifice because it'll lead to way bigger problems later on. That's a personal choice though.
If your ankle i still swollen and painful, you need to do rehab on your knee and hip while the pain dies down. When the pain/swelling is gone you need to begin rehab on the ankle. Re-gain dorsiflexion first while gaining proprioception/control of all the muscles so you don't sprain it again.

And yes it is very hard to judge what someone is saying by one post so I suggest you think about what you post BEFORE you hit post.


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## boarderaholic

jml22 said:


> I suggest you re-read and realize i was talking about the therapist. I didnt imply you don't know what you're doing when you're riding.
> A snowboard boot is essentially a giant ankle brace already. You can't invert or evert your ankle more than a few degrees and your dorsi flexion is probably 1/4 of what it should be.
> Now saying that, losing that amount of dorsiflexion and rotation = forces will get loaded onto your knee hips and back. That's something i wouldn't be willing to sacrifice because it'll lead to way bigger problems later on. That's a personal choice though.
> If your ankle i still swollen and painful, you need to do rehab on your knee and hip while the pain dies down. When the pain/swelling is gone you need to begin rehab on the ankle. Re-gain dorsiflexion first while gaining proprioception/control of all the muscles so you don't sprain it again.
> 
> And yes it is very hard to judge what someone is saying by one post so I suggest you think about what you post BEFORE you hit post.


Oh dear. It appears as if I have mis-read your post. My apologies.
However, I will still laugh AT you. I'll let you figure out why, on your own.


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## BigmountainVMD

Platelet rich plasma injections.


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## redlude97

boarderaholic said:


> Have any of you guys tried riding with an ankle brace? Apparently I buggered up my ankle pretty bad, and my therapist mentioned the idea of wearing a brace, depending on how physio is going.


FWIW I have peroneal tendon subluxation and a torn retinaculum and I use a J pad around the ankle bone combined with ankle tape to get through the last 2 seasons. If you ride hard your ankle will flex and tweak alot. It works for me. It still subluxes a few times a day but its manageable. No luck with an ankle brace, wasn't tight enough


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## paul

Have you tried any acupuncture? I found for me it took swelling down getting things back to normal a little faster.


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## boarderaholic

paul said:


> Have you tried any acupuncture? I found for me it took swelling down getting things back to normal a little faster.


Fuck no. I don't do pointy things.


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## killclimbz

Acupuncture does work and it usually feels surprisingly good. I've done it a few times.


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## paul

you dont' even feel it and it looks awesome lol


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## Nate Minnis

I did something similar...I rolled my ankle outwards multiple times but did a decent size jump and landed awkwardly putting all my weight on the inside part of my right ankle. Definitely get a second opinion. One Dr immediately told me he thought surgery was going to be necessary but after talking with a physical therapist I began training, stretching, gaining back range of motion and it ended up healing completely. Sometimes they are too quick to recommend surgery, but then again if it's not healing by month 5 something probably is wrong structurally. Maybe try a quality ankle brace compression sleeve. It can alleviate pain and inflammation. It's not going to be an instant fix but can help you cope or anyone else if they still haven't regained full mobility in their ankle. Now I stick to smaller jumps and got better equipment as well.


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## poutanen

Nate Minnis said:


> I did something similar...


FYI, I hope the original posters ankle is good by now, the post was written in Sept 2013!

Welcome to the forum, just take a look at a posts date before replying. Also, if you use the "active topics" button you'll see the most recent posts and can comment on them there.

Cheers


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