# Union bindings loose in channel



## AV8ers (Feb 10, 2020)

Hello all, 

I am new to the forum and tried searching for this topic but this seems strange. I have an endeavor snowboard (this is my first board I've owned and not rented.) with some union channel bindings. 

My bindings are tightened very well, and nothing is loose. However, the bindings slip in my channel. Would anyone know what is possibly happening? Is it the channel? Or would it be the binding?

I've tried loosening my bindings and then re-screwing them into place as well. Once I finish tightening my screws, I can still move the binding back and forth in the channel.

Any help is appreciated. 

Thank you!


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## Radialhead (Jan 3, 2018)

Sounds like the screws are too long. Are they black or silver?


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## AV8ers (Feb 10, 2020)

They're silver, but it seems weird as the screws are relatively short.


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## Radialhead (Jan 3, 2018)

Think they're the 4x4 screws then (probably 15-16mm long). Channel screws are black & 13mm long I believe.


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## AV8ers (Feb 10, 2020)

Is there somewhere specific I should purchase these from? These came with the bindings so it seems weird they'd give me screws that dont work with the product they are meant for.


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## Radialhead (Jan 3, 2018)

The screws for channel boards usually come with the board. Any snowboard shop should stock them. If the fittings that go into the channels came with the bindings then yeah, you'd expect them to include the right screws too. I'd ask whoever you bought them from in that case. Might be worth posting up a photo just in case there's something else going on but I'm pretty sure all channel screws are black.


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## AV8ers (Feb 10, 2020)

I'll post a photo when I get home then. It does seem strange. Maybe I'll try to get a video of everything, from assembling the binding to moving it after being locked in place.

I'll check with the shop as well, see if they have any reason why the screws are silver vs black.


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## timmytard (Mar 19, 2009)

Get your boyfriend to tighten them up haha


TT


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## AV8ers (Feb 10, 2020)

timmytard said:


> Get your boyfriend to tighten them up haha
> 
> 
> TT


I appreciate your input


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## Yeahti87 (Jan 17, 2019)

You’ve got standard 4 x 4 screws with Unions (I have Falcors and Endeavor Archetype). Endeavor supplies the channel mounting, not the screws for it. You need to buy these black shorter screws from Burton separately.


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## AV8ers (Feb 10, 2020)

Yeahti87 said:


> You’ve got standard 4 x 4 screws with Unions (I have Falcors and Endeavor Archetype). Endeavor supplies the channel mounting, not the screws for it. You need to buy these black shorter screws from Burton separately.


So, purchase the screws from burton, and the bindings shouldn't slip in the channel?

I suppose I did something wrong in the setup then as the binding mounting disc had screws supplied for it. Or maybe union just is dumb and gave me some screws thinking they work when they dont.


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## Yeahti87 (Jan 17, 2019)

There are different screws for the channel and 4x4 inserts. From the bindings I’ve ever purchased only Burton (surprise) supplied the M6 black screws, my Fluxes, Romes and Unions had only the 4x4 screws in the box.


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## AV8ers (Feb 10, 2020)

Yeahti87 said:


> There are different screws for the channel and 4x4 inserts. From the bindings I’ve ever purchased only Burton (surprise) supplied the M6 black screws, my Fluxes, Romes and Unions had only the 4x4 screws in the box.


Just to clarify, by 4x4, do you mean the screw size or the channel fitting amount of screws? My disc only has 2 slots for screws.


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## lab49232 (Sep 13, 2011)

AV8ers said:


> So, purchase the screws from burton, and the bindings shouldn't slip in the channel?
> 
> I suppose I did something wrong in the setup then as the binding mounting disc had screws supplied for it. Or maybe union just is dumb and gave me some screws thinking they work when they dont.


You would really benefit by looking at a traditional board for a second. Normal bindings use 4 screws to go in 4 holes or 4x4. Your Union bindings included screws to fit this mounting system. You can put two screws in each slot on your baseplate. You're bindings can ALSO be COMPATIBLE for a channel system but you need a different set of screws often supplied by the board producer or in Burton Channel specific bindings. You seem to be confused about the difference between designed for and compatible.


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## Radialhead (Jan 3, 2018)

4x4 is the 


AV8ers said:


> Just to clarify, by 4x4, do you mean the screw size or the channel fitting amount of screws? My disc only has 2 slots for screws.


4x4 is the mounting system that most boards use (4 screws in a square). Channel is a different mounting system that's only used by Burton & Endeavour, & is therefore a minority in the market, so bindings don't come with the hardware to fit it.


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## AV8ers (Feb 10, 2020)

lab49232 said:


> You would really benefit by looking at a traditional board for a second. Normal bindings use 4 screws to go in 4 holes or 4x4. Your Union bindings included screws to fit this mounting system. You can put two screws in each slot on your baseplate. You're bindings can ALSO be COMPATIBLE for a channel system but you need a different set of screws often supplied by the board producer or in Burton Channel specific bindings. You seem to be confused about the difference between designed for and compatible.


When I first looked at the board I wanted I sought out the bindings for the board. These seemed to be the best fit, so I would not be surprised if I messed something up as it was my first time purchasing.

I tried doing my research, but I probably did screw something up. I included a photo of my board and bindings. They're union force bindings if I recall correctly.

Edit: reading your post a bit more thoroughly I see what you mean now. I seem to have used the screws for a normal binding system rather than screws designed for a channel system.


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## Manicmouse (Apr 7, 2014)

It would help if your photo showed the binding high backs up so we can see the base plates.


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## Radialhead (Jan 3, 2018)

This reckons the standard screws fit so who knows. I assume you're using the right holes & the washers.


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## AV8ers (Feb 10, 2020)

Radialhead said:


> This reckons the standard screws fit so who knows. I assume you're using the right holes & the washers.


That's basically my setup, just a different board. Everything he did during setup was the exact same I have done.


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

Yes, you can use the standard supplied screws from Union bindings with a channel board. I had Stratas set up on a channel board with the standard screws with no issues. (Union addresses the difference in length/height by changing the indentation in the mounting holes. Other brands do it by using/adding a different washer or no washer, etc).

From what you're already doing, you just need to tighten the screws more until it's all tight. Then tighten a little bit more. Use a Phillips #3 head and a decent lever if you're not sure you can get it tight enough (but don't go extreme with a big ratchet).


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## AV8ers (Feb 10, 2020)

F1EA said:


> Yes, you can use the standard supplied screws from Union bindings with a channel board. I had Stratas set up on a channel board with the standard screws with no issues. (Union addresses the difference in length/height by changing the indentation in the mounting holes. Other brands do it by using/adding a different washer or no washer, etc).
> 
> From what you're already doing, you just need to tighten the screws more until it's all tight. Then tighten a little bit more. Use a Phillips #3 head and a decent lever if you're not sure you can get it tight enough (but don't go extreme with a big ratchet).


The problem here is I suppose the screws have been tightened so much I fear they're going to break the channel from pressure. 

Theyve also begun to be stripped, so I have ordered new screws from burtons website, since they were only 4$. 

I will see if I can tighten the screws enough to cause the bindings to stick in place. Hopefully this will be the case.


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

AV8ers said:


> The problem here is I suppose the screws have been tightened so much I fear they're going to break the channel from pressure.
> 
> Theyve also begun to be stripped, so I have ordered new screws from burtons website, since they were only 4$.
> 
> I will see if I can tighten the screws enough to cause the bindings to stick in place. Hopefully this will be the case.


hmmmm and you can slide the bindings along the channel while at home, or do they loosen up while riding?

If they're ok when you tighten them, then they simply loosen up when you're riding and the Burton screws will help a lot because they have a little nylon strip that keeps them more secure.

If you're stripping the screws then that's probably because you're not using a #3 phillips head.... the #3 is the one that looks thicker and has a sort of flat tip.


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## AV8ers (Feb 10, 2020)

F1EA said:


> hmmmm and you can slide the bindings along the channel while at home, or do they loosen up while riding?
> 
> If they're ok when you tighten them, then they simply loosen up when you're riding and the Burton screws will help a lot because they have a little nylon strip that keeps them more secure.
> 
> If you're stripping the screws then that's probably because you're not using a #3 phillips head.... the #3 is the one that looks thicker and has a sort of flat tip.


No, even after I tighten the screws I can move the binding in the channel. 

I do tighten the screws occasionally, just to ensure they dont come off the board while I'm riding. However, the screws dont ever get super loose from the placeholder and washer. 

As for stripping the screws, you're probably right. I need a better screw driver!


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## Manicmouse (Apr 7, 2014)

Definitely sounds like your screws are too long.


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## AV8ers (Feb 10, 2020)

Manicmouse said:


> Definitely sounds like your screws are too long.


I guess that kind of confuses me, as I dont see how too long of screws would cause my bindings to be able to slide back and forth.


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## Manicmouse (Apr 7, 2014)

If the screws through your base plate are tightly screwed into the inserts which sit in the channel, the inserts won't slide, they'll be firmly secure. But only if the screws are exactly the right length.

You are surely screwing those screws down to the bottom of the inserts where they can't go any further. This is not holding everything together tightly.

I'm not sure how I can explain it any clearer


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## AV8ers (Feb 10, 2020)

Manicmouse said:


> If the screws through your base plate are tightly screwed into the inserts which sit in the channel, the inserts won't slide, they'll be firmly secure. But only if the screws are exactly the right length.
> 
> You are surely screwing those screws down to the bottom of the inserts where they can't go any further. This is not holding everything together tightly.
> 
> I'm not sure how I can explain it any clearer


I suppose that makes sense, thank you! My new screws come the 18th, so we will see


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## Yeahti87 (Jan 17, 2019)

These standard 16 mm long screws are either loose or can damage the Channel like that as they are simply longer


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## AV8ers (Feb 10, 2020)

Yeahti87 said:


> These standard 16 mm long screws are either loose or can damage the Channel like that as they are simply longer
> View attachment 152660


Hahahahaha that picture is great, thank you


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

Manicmouse said:


> If the screws through your base plate are tightly screwed into the inserts which sit in the channel, the inserts won't slide, they'll be firmly secure. But only if the screws are exactly the right length.
> 
> You are surely screwing those screws down to the bottom of the inserts where they can't go any further. This is not holding everything together tightly.
> 
> I'm not sure how I can explain it any clearer


Yes that ^

Are you using the washers?

In any case, wait til you get the new screws and don't ride the board if the bindings can move along the channel. Worst case, take it to a store/shop and ask them to set it up for you...


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## AV8ers (Feb 10, 2020)

F1EA said:


> Yes that ^
> 
> Are you using the washers?
> 
> In any case, wait til you get the new screws and don't ride the board if the bindings can move along the channel. Worst case, take it to a store/shop and ask them to set it up for you...


Yes I am using the washers. And I havent been on the board for a week now, I probably won't get the chance to to up again this season anyways but hopefully this does fix it. 

And if I am absolutely lost I suppose taking it to a shop would be a great idea. Thanks for your help


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

AV8ers said:


> Yes I am using the washers. And I havent been on the board for a week now, I probably won't get the chance to to up again this season anyways but hopefully this does fix it.
> 
> And if I am absolutely lost I suppose taking it to a shop would be a great idea. Thanks for your help


Yep. Going to a shop is mostly because they would have many different nuts, bolts, screws and so on. So more likely to find something that fits.

I'm surprised it doesnt fit already, so maybe there's an odd issue with one of the parts...


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## AV8ers (Feb 10, 2020)

F1EA said:


> Yep. Going to a shop is mostly because they would have many different nuts, bolts, screws and so on. So more likely to find something that fits.
> 
> I'm surprised it doesnt fit already, so maybe there's an odd issue with one of the parts...


Ah, I see. Well I have no idea, to be honest, on whether or not the screws actually fit. It really does seem strange, so maybe my screws really are just too long.

I really appreciate the help I've received so far! Thank you!


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## Rip154 (Sep 23, 2017)

I think it's just the foam on the Union bindings that needs to compress till the disc actually hits the board, will be loose until you make that happen.


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## AV8ers (Feb 10, 2020)

Rip154 said:


> I think it's just the foam on the Union bindings that needs to compress till the disc actually hits the board, will be loose until you make that happen.


Maybe I'll look at that as well, but I dont think this is the case as I have tightened the screws to be pretty taut.


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## Johann (Oct 8, 2019)

AV8ers said:


> I suppose that makes sense, thank you! My new screws come the 18th, so we will see


 Did you resolve the problem with the new screws?


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## Manicmouse (Apr 7, 2014)




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## AV8ers (Feb 10, 2020)

Johann said:


> Did you resolve the problem with the new screws?





Manicmouse said:


>


It seems the smaller black screws have made it more stable. It slipped after I had tightened them originally, however I tightened them again and it seems I cannot move the binding... I havent ridden the board down a hill yet though, so who knows.


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## AV8ers (Feb 10, 2020)

Ah, well, I have lied. I tried moving both bindings again and my rear binding slips in the channel. It slides back and forth after being completely screwed in tight.


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## Manicmouse (Apr 7, 2014)

Take it into a snowboard shop.


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## AV8ers (Feb 10, 2020)

Manicmouse said:


> Take it into a snowboard shop.


Yeah, I will. I wonder what's going on. Ah well, thank you for your help guys


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## lab49232 (Sep 13, 2011)

AV8ers said:


> Yeah, I will. I wonder what's going on. Ah well, thank you for your help guys


Make sure to come back and tell us what was going on!


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## AV8ers (Feb 10, 2020)

lab49232 said:


> Make sure to come back and tell us what was going on!


I will definitely do that. I have a feeling due to the board only being 250$, the channel may have not been constructed so well? I dont know. I feel it may have been cheaply made, which I may have been expecting.

However I will return to inform you all what was going on after I am able to bring my board into a shop.


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## Manicmouse (Apr 7, 2014)

I don't want to drop another anticipation meme, but I'm tempted


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