# All Mountain Board for beginner



## hkalien (Oct 25, 2010)

You should check out the Sierra crew. It basically the same as the burton custom except it's on sale for half the price. They have a binding plus board deal on trusnow right now


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## Leo (Nov 24, 2009)

hkalien said:


> You should check out the Sierra crew. It basically the same as the burton custom except it's on sale for half the price. They have a binding plus board deal on trusnow right now


You have been fooled. It is not the same as the custom. It's a crap board made out of older Custom molds. Why would Burton allow them to make a board with the same quality as their best selling Custom knowing that Sierra is going to sell it for way less?

Sierra boards are crap and that's the bottom line. At least they are cheap 

@daang: I highly suggest the Raygun. It's at the top of your budget, but it is an awesome board for the price. K2's all-mountain rocker is sick. It's 70% flat between the bindings (awesome edge to edge) and 30% mellow rocker for the rest. It's surprisingly stable for not having harshmellow like it's older brother the Turbo Dream and is satisfyingly poppy. This board was a surprise to those of us that demoed it. We didn't expect a $350 board to ride this nicely.

K2 Raygun Mens Snowboard 2011

For this board, the 156 is your best all-around size.


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## hkalien (Oct 25, 2010)

Leo said:


> You have been fooled. It is not the same as the custom. It's a crap board made out of older Custom molds. Why would Burton allow them to make a board with the same quality as their best selling Custom knowing that Sierra is going to sell it for way less?
> 
> Sierra boards are crap and that's the bottom line. At least they are cheap
> 
> ...



Uh oh. My friend bought one in the summer.....


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## daangg (Nov 17, 2010)

Leo- thanks for the quick reply, do you have any preference on bindings? Im not quite sure what to look for in a decent set of bindings? I am also a size 9.5 which puts me right between Medium and Large bindings? 

sorry for the ignorance, your help is very much appreciated!


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## Leo (Nov 24, 2009)

For an all mountain board like the Raygun, the best type of bindings to get are mid-flexing ones. However, bindings aren't that important compared to your other gear. This is my purchase pattern in order of importance descending:

Boots - You can have the best fit of all the gear below, but having bad boots will ruin the entire experience

Outerwear - Like the boots, if you are cold and wet, then it's going to ruin your experience

Board - Board isn't as important as some people think. However, choosing the best size and type for your needs is going to make the experience of snowboarding much better. For example, I can still have tons of fun on a board that doesn't fit me well, but having one that does makes it more enjoyable.

Bindings - This is the least important piece of gear in my opinion. I personally aim for comfort in bindings. Comfortable boots and bindings = happy feet. Bindings are important for beginners though. Having really stiff bindings will be too responsive for a beginner. However, to those of us with experience, we can compensate for the binding's stiffness easily.

What's your budget for bindings? Also, do you ride on a big mountain or a local hill? I ask that latter question because quick entry bindings might be a good choice.


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## daangg (Nov 17, 2010)

no budget really, but anywhere from 100-150 area would be nice. Im on the east coast, so mostly local hills, places like snowshoe, massanutten, etc


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## Leo (Nov 24, 2009)

daangg said:


> no budget really, but anywhere under 150 would be nice. Im on the east coast, so mostly local hills but ill be taking a few trips to bigger mountains and such.
> Quick entry such as the clickers or whatever its called? I would like to stay away from those.


Heck no lol. I mean like rear entry or quick straps. Flows, K2 Cinches, K2 Autos... stuff like that.

$150 is kind of rough to work with 

Some suggestions a little over $150.

Burton Cobrasharks - I loved these bindings. This is saying a lot because I've never been a fan of Burton bindings. However, these were comfy. The flex is dead middle so it's great for all-mountain freestyle usage.

Burton Cobrashark Snowboard Bindings 2011

K2 CTC - It's a rear entry binding that still gives you the response of traditional strap system. You unlock the highback and it drops partway down so you can step your boots in and then lock the highback up again.

K2 Cinch CTC Snowboard Bindings 2011

K2 Auto Uprise - Pretty good binding. I like K2's auto system. You ratchet down the heel strap and the toe strap tightens with it.

K2 Uprise Mens Snowboard Bindings 2011

If you are in the mood to splurge... Rome 390 Boss - these are the "IT" bindings this year. I'm currently saving up for a pair myself 

Rome 390 Boss Snowboard Bindings 2011

Each link has sizing guides for the brand and binding so you can consult those. Generally, you'll be large. I know you'll be large for the bosses for sure.

Some bindings to search for (previous year models to cut prices):

Ride Delta
Rome 390
Flow NXT-AT (2009+) or ATSE (2010)


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## daangg (Nov 17, 2010)

Wow.. This is very helpful. I will definatly look into all these. Thanks for all your help and time. Thumbs up!


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## Leo (Nov 24, 2009)

No problem bro. Always glad to help a rider out new or not. 

Oh, if you do shop through sbnet:

http://app.bronto.com/public/?q=pre...t=BlackFriday&utm_campaign=www.snowboards.net

There's a $5 off coupon code in there.


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## JoeR (Oct 30, 2010)

daangg said:


> no budget really, but anywhere from 100-150 area would be nice.


About the least expensive decent binding I can think of for you is the Ride EX, and even that costs $160 for the 2010-11 model. (Usually, it's not a good idea to get any company's absolute bottom-of-the-line binding.) To get lower than that for a brand new binding, you'd probably have to look at companies that aren't particularly known for their binding prowess. 

However, if you look at 2009-10 models (still new, just not the latest), as Leo mentioned, then you have a lot of possibilities. I bought a new pair of 2009-10 SPi's, which go for $230 when current, for under $140 -- beneath your budget cap. Shop around and you can probably find some good deals if you aren't picky about a particular brand or color.


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## daangg (Nov 17, 2010)

One last question about boots, I understand getting what is most comfy on me, so I'll be buying those in a local shop but as far as quality and such , do you have any preference in brands?


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## Leo (Nov 24, 2009)

Everyone has different preferences. I'm currently in Burton boots. I had Ride previously and loved those (except for the quick lace system, not BOA).

I hear good things about 32 lashed. Just remember, unlike with other gear, the pricier boots aren't always the best fitting ones for you. The Ride's I had were mid-tier and my current Burtons are little above mid-tier. I've tried on some expensive boots, but not all of them fit me well.

It truly is a "to each his own" scenario with boots.


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## daangg (Nov 17, 2010)

Price limits for bindings were just me being hopeful lol. But it looks like I'll be spending a bit more than I wanted. I'm sure once I get on the mountain, I'll feel much better about it though!


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## Leo (Nov 24, 2009)

There's definitely ways to save. Looking for previous years and sales and deals and such. Cyber Monday is coming up so it might be worth the wait for things like previous year stuff. The thing is, this is the start of a new season and selection is really slim. This year's stuff will drop in price around Feb.

If you have the means, it's actually not a bad purchase. I mean, my first setup was entry level everything. Needless to say, I upgraded a year later. That just meant spending more money in the long run. I'm still using the same board from that upgrade and it's been 5 years now (tons of snow time). I bought a new board this year, but it will be an addition, not a replacement so who knows how much longer my board will last.


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## daangg (Nov 17, 2010)

I don't mind spending a bit more, I want something that will last a couple years. I am still a beginner and do not think I'll need a new one for a couple years, I just enjoy gettin away from everything, something about snowboarding that is very peaceful and relaxing


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## vote4pedro (Dec 28, 2009)

daangg said:


> One last question about boots, I understand getting what is most comfy on me, so I'll be buying those in a local shop but as far as quality and such , do you have any preference in brands?


The biggest difference in boot brands, as far as fitment goes, is some brands tend to be wider or narrower than others. So depending how wide your feet are, some brands will fit better than others. 

For bindings, I'd look at something like Union Force, Rome Arsenal, or Rome 390. I took a quick look and there are still some '09 Arsenals out there within your budget. Check ebay and google shopping.


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## JoeR (Oct 30, 2010)

daangg said:


> One last question about boots, I understand getting what is most comfy on me, so I'll be buying those in a local shop but as far as quality and such , do you have any preference in brands?


Salomon. The fit may or may not be right for you, but the consensus is that their quality is very high.


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## Leo (Nov 24, 2009)

JoeR said:


> Salomon. The fit may or may not be right for you, but the consensus is that their quality is very high.


Except their wretched speed lacing system. To be fair, I had a pair of Salmons from 2007. They were so comfortable, but the damn laces kept coming loose. I handled some new ones and the system has changed. Still doesn't look like it will hold well. Glad to see they have some BOA models now though.


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## vote4pedro (Dec 28, 2009)

Leo said:


> Except their wretched speed lacing system. To be fair, I had a pair of Salmons from 2007. They were so comfortable, but the damn laces kept coming loose. I handled some new ones and the system has changed. Still doesn't look like it will hold well. Glad to see they have some BOA models now though.


I just got a pair of F22s. I haven't ridden in them yet, but it takes a fair amount of effort to get them unlaced. They seem like they should hold pretty well.


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## JoeR (Oct 30, 2010)

Leo said:


> Except their wretched speed lacing system. To be fair, I had a pair of Salmons from 2007. They were so comfortable, but the damn laces kept coming loose. I handled some new ones and the system has changed. Still doesn't look like it will hold well. Glad to see they have some BOA models now though.


In the old style, the clamp that anchors the strings was pulled down to the top of the tongue, where it sort of sat and could loosen a bit. In the new style, the clamp is attached to the tongue and the strings are pulled through it -- better. Also, in the old style the handle pull had to be hooked onto the side of the boot, which was not so secure. In the new style, the handle pull hooks onto a strap or goes into pocket -- again, an improvement.


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## Leo (Nov 24, 2009)

JoeR said:


> In the old style, the clamp that anchors the strings was pulled down to the top of the tongue, where it sort of sat and could loosen a bit. In the new style, the clamp is attached to the tongue and the strings are pulled through it -- better. Also, in the old style the handle pull had to be hooked onto the side of the boot, which was not so secure. In the new style, the handle pull hooks onto a strap or goes into pocket -- again, an improvement.


Yea, I'm still skeptical of their lacing after handling them. I honestly believe the only real quick lacing system that works well is the modern BOA system. 

Until I find a BOA Focus that I like, I'll stick to my traditional laces and the hockey tie method


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## JoeR (Oct 30, 2010)

Leo said:


> Yea, I'm still skeptical of their lacing after handling them. I honestly believe the only real quick lacing system that works well is the modern BOA system.
> 
> Until I find a BOA Focus that I like, I'll stick to my traditional laces and the hockey tie method


I entered this season's gear-shopping phase with the intention of getting BOA boots, but I found the selection too limited to make that practical. At the big preseason sale here, there was not a single BOA boot in my size to try on. And the regular shop selection is very weak too (the fact that most manufacturers seem to offer only one or two decent BOA models doesn't help). As the retail level, BOA seems to be a small niche even within the niche that is regular snowboarding.


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## Leo (Nov 24, 2009)

I feel you on that one. That's exactly why I don't have a pair either... AND I WORK FOR A SNOWBOARD RETAILER! I mean, there are plenty of single BOA boots, but I want the Focus ones. I have wider feet and want the option to have the mid section of the boot fit a little looser. This is why laces still rule for me. I can tighten any zone I want to my liking independently of other areas.

Oh, a new lace system that caught my eye that I want to try out is Ride's strappers. Looks pretty good. Wonder how the velcro will hold up through all the cold and snow. Their Insano BOA Focus also looks damn good. Haven't tried it out yet. Could be too stiff for me though (rated 9).


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## JoeR (Oct 30, 2010)

According to Ride Nation, the 2010-11 Insanos are super-stiff even after being broken in. And $300 is pretty stiff too. Even though I use a pretty stiff binding in the SPi, I prefer boots that respond well but are still reasonably comfortable for walking around. Mid-flex Salomons suit me fine.


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## daangg (Nov 17, 2010)

thanks for the help everyone. really appreciate it, defiantly put me in the right direction. Once i purchase the board+bindings ill be back asking for more help on how to correctly put them on. sigh..  

thanks again! you guys are awesome


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## daangg (Nov 17, 2010)

just purchased a set of 2010 Rome 390's for 155 shipped, and will most likely go with Leo's suggestion of the k2 raygun. very excited!


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## Leo (Nov 24, 2009)

daangg said:


> just purchased a set of 2010 Rome 390's for 155 shipped, and will most likely go with Leo's suggestion of the k2 raygun. very excited!


Nice man! You snatched up a rare find. Great bindings and great price.


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## TXBDan (Feb 16, 2010)

Leo said:


> You have been fooled. It is not the same as the custom. It's a crap board made out of older Custom molds. Why would Burton allow them to make a board with the same quality as their best selling Custom knowing that Sierra is going to sell it for way less?


FALSE 

Sierra Crew:
- Directional Shape is the best all mountain shape
- Twin Flex makes snowboard tricks fun
- Superfly II core 
- Dualzone EGD 
- Carbon I beam 
- Triax Response Fiberglass 
- 10:45 Sidewalls 
- Pro-tip 
- Negative Core Profile 
- Feel: 6 
- Sintered Base

Those are all Burton marketing terms and the same list you'll see if you google '2008 Burton Custom'. Its called licensing and Burton takes a cut of every Sierra Crew sold. It way to continue making money on an old (2008) design that they can't otherwise sell.


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## Leo (Nov 24, 2009)

TXBDan said:


> FALSE
> 
> Sierra Crew:
> - Directional Shape is the best all mountain shape
> ...


And you believe everything Sierra says right? 

Did I not say old Custom molds? They push it like it is new. Really ask yourself... how much is a 2008 Burton Custom worth?

And do you think they use the same type of wood? Why is it that I hear about so many Sierra boards cracking and going to shit, yet I hear way less about Customs doing the same? And Burton is the most popular brand so for every Sierra board, there are literally thousands of Burton Customs.

You can believe what you want and go ride your Sierra boards, but don't push your love for a questionable company on an unsuspecting new rider.


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## TXBDan (Feb 16, 2010)

What solid grounds or proof do you have? You're saying a major company like Sierra/Trusnow is blatantly false advertising using trademarked Burton marketing terms?

Its surely possible, but i think the more likely situation is that Burton is trying to make some extra bucks at no cost and Sierra trying to make some bucks while getting their name out there.

Remember, almost all boards are made in the same handful of companies in Asia, its not rocket science.

The same thing goes on in the bicycle world. Distributors like PerformanceBike (and now bikesdirect.com) are reselling 2-3 year old frame designs for 1/3rd the price. All made in the same factories, designers want to continue making money off old designs, why not?


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## Leo (Nov 24, 2009)

TXBDan said:


> What solid grounds or proof do you have? You're saying a major company like Sierra/Trusnow is blatantly false advertising using trademarked Burton marketing terms?
> 
> Its surely possible, but i think the more likely situation is that Burton is trying to make some extra bucks at no cost and Sierra trying to make some bucks while getting their name out there.
> 
> ...


I suppose you missed the whole Sierra debacle? Your altruistic company doesn't exactly have a good history of being honest.

Look it up and you'll see tons of solid evidence. Just because House now owns it doesn't mean ish. The same people work at Sierra.

House is another issue. They tried to sue us long time ago for having a domain named "SnowboardHouse" like they have a patent on the name "House".

What evidence do you have that Sierra boards are quality and that they don't lie?


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## daangg (Nov 17, 2010)

Leo- ill be checking out some boots either today or tomorrow hopefully? Any tips when picking a boot, besides them feeling "comfy" on my feet. Things to look for such as stiffness, not quite exact sure how they should feel, other than "comfy"


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## Muki (Feb 8, 2010)

They shouldn't feel comfy at first.


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## vote4pedro (Dec 28, 2009)

The boots should fit tight when you first put them on, borderline too small. Lace them up tight and squat down to see if your heel lifts off the bottom. If it does, they don't fit. If not, wear them around the store for 15-30 minutes and see how they feel. The insulation will pack out a little and you'll have a better idea how they'll fit. 

As far as stiffness, it depends what kind of riding you're doing. For freeride, you'll probably want a stiffer boot. You'll want something more flexible for park. For a beginner, you'll probably want a medium stiffness boot. I'd try to learn what models are the correct stiffness before you go. Some sales people know more than others. But all will act like they know what they're talking about. If you're not careful, they could sell you the wrong boots.


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## daangg (Nov 17, 2010)

how much of a noticeable difference will i notice between a 153 board and a 156 ?


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## bdubbin (Nov 13, 2010)

daangg said:


> how much of a noticeable difference will i notice between a 153 board and a 156 ?


I don't know the answer to your question but K2 states the Raygun 153 is for <150 lbs while the 156 is 130-210 lbs. Based on that and the fact you said you weigh 150lbs... I'd say 156.

On the other hand I weigh 143 lbs so I'm either 7 pounds below the max weight on the 153 or 13 pounds above the min weight for the 156. I wanted a more park sized board with all mountain capability so I went with the 153 Raygun despite being close to the max weight.

My first choice in boards was the 153 GNU Carbon Credit but got a good deal on the Raygun so I got it instead. I haven't ridden either yet.


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