# Positive angle on back binding : carving?



## Gregor Mahler (Jan 18, 2017)

Admit I never tried both bindings at positive angle but just trying with my feet on the ground it doesn't look natural. While the front turn looks better thanks to the back knee drop, turning backside doesn't look right since it seems I can't apply any pressure with the back heel. The movement doesn't seem natural. I reckon though that the carving stance is called like this for a reason....please explain it. Thanks


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## Snowdaddy (Feb 2, 2018)

Gregor Mahler said:


> Admit I never tried both bindings at positive angle but just trying with my feet on the ground it doesn't look natural. While the front turn looks better thanks to the back knee drop, turning backside doesn't look right since it seems I can't apply any pressure with the back heel. The movement doesn't seem natural. I reckon though that the carving stance is called like this for a reason....please explain it. Thanks


From a beginner's perspective this seems more about body alignment and preferred style of riding, if you ride a regular width snowboard. With a very narrow alpine/carve board you need to adjust the angles to avoid boot out.

Forward angles allows a more open stance and you can also ride with your back knee in that forward (not just toeside angle) angle some people like. Obviously it's possible to ride both ways.


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## speedjason (May 2, 2013)

When you do both positive stance, you are more of a forward facing so it really is more like skiing a mono-ski.
Anyways, you have to bend your knees and hip to shift weight to the heel side edge.


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## Aracan (Nov 24, 2017)

+/+ is (in my not so humble opinion) better suited to carving because you DON'T need to weight the rear foot on a heelside turn. Weighting both heels limits the amount of edge angle because at some point your butt is going to touch the slope. 
+/+ allows you to rotate far more into the turn with your hips and torso. Look where you want to go, touch the toes of your front foot with your outside hand, even grab the edge between the front binding and the tip of the board. If that puts most of your weight on your fore foot heel, perfect! Lock into that carve and enjoy the ride.


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## Gregor Mahler (Jan 18, 2017)

Thanks 
Looking at these two videos, do you think the back binding is still negative or not?

https://youtu.be/vNVtx7fYp2I

https://youtu.be/-AHkduez0QI


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## speedjason (May 2, 2013)

Gregor Mahler said:


> Thanks
> Looking at these two videos, do you think the back binding is still negative or not?
> 
> https://youtu.be/vNVtx7fYp2I
> ...


The first one is probably very little to no rear angle.
The second one is hard to see but similar to the first one maybe a bit more negative.
It really doesn't matter. If you can carve, you can carve even duck.


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## deagol (Mar 26, 2014)

back in "the old days' most riders had +/+ angles. I'm not sure when duckfoot became standard, maybe in the late 90's ????

I've never tried duckfoot but it seems weird to me, so I guess it's based somewhat on what you are used to. I have backed-off the forward angle on my rear foot and it is easier on my back knee, but I can't bring myself to go negative with the rear foot. Maybe it's a case of "you can't teach an old dog new tricks" ?


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## bazman (Jan 15, 2017)

I was also taught to go ++ back in the day once I got to carving stage, but went duck 10 ish years ago and stayed there.

Better for landing jumps and of course switch. Can still carve fine too


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## deagol (Mar 26, 2014)

bazman said:


> I was also taught to go ++ back in the day once I got to carving stage, but went duck 10 ish years ago and stayed there.
> 
> Better for landing jumps and of course switch. Can still carve fine too


That's a good point, especially about switch. I gave up caring about switch many years ago, but most people seem to be into that, so it makes sense duck is so popular. I know Ryan Knapton (popular YouTube carving snowboarder) rides duck and carves very very well.


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

deagol said:


> Maybe it's a case of "you can't teach an old dog new tricks" ?


Lol, maybe. Even tho I went from +/+ to very mild duck (-3 or -6) on my pow boards some years ago, I still ride with open fwd oriented shoulder most of the time. Still got +/+ angles to the carve board, tho. Feels just more 'right" . SO? He tried duck once, twice, but always went back yo +/+. Same as the other guys of his old pack. Those dogs are too old, it seems


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## deagol (Mar 26, 2014)

neni said:


> Lol, maybe. Even tho I went from +/+ to very mild duck (-3 or -6) on my pow boards some years ago, I still ride with open fwd oriented shoulder most of the time. Still got +/+ angles to the carve board, tho. Feels just more 'right" . SO? He tried duck once, twice, but always went back yo +/+. Same as the other guys of his old pack. Those dogs are too old, it seems


I remember his stance on the Flagship. his back foot was pretty far forward if I remember correctly.


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## speedjason (May 2, 2013)

deagol said:


> back in "the old days' most riders had +/+ angles. I'm not sure when duckfoot became standard, maybe in the late 90's ????
> 
> I've never tried duckfoot but it seems weird to me, so I guess it's based somewhat on what you are used to. I have backed-off the forward angle on my rear foot and it is easier on my back knee, but I can't bring myself to go negative with the rear foot. Maybe it's a case of "you can't teach an old dog new tricks" ?


I think duck started when skaters started taking their tricks to the snowboard. I mean there is no reason to ride duck if you always go in one direction.


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## linvillegorge (Jul 6, 2009)

Like others have said, I think a lot of it has to do with how you learned to ride. +/+ vs. duck completely changes the dynamics of riding. I learned to ride at +/0 and ultimately moved to a duck stance (I usually ride 15/-12 on my all-mountain boards and 18/-9 on my more freeride/pow oriented boards). Riding double positive just feels absolutely foreign to me.


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

deagol said:


> I remember his stance on the Flagship. his back foot was pretty far forward if I remember correctly.


+30/+18 at that time iirc.


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## Myoko (Dec 11, 2018)

I ride 12/12 duck stance but thought I would try the back foot forward as I have seen some very good carvers and many of them are doing it. Made things easier on toeside as I could get my rear knee lower but I am not convinced it did anything on my backhand.


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## Aracan (Nov 24, 2017)

My 2 Cents: If +/+ angles don't help you with your backside, then your technique doesn't utilize the inherent advantage.


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## Deacon (Mar 2, 2013)

The body and weight movements are quite a bit different going from +/+ to +/0 or +/-

If you've gotten good at one, it can be tough to learn the other. For myself, I gave +/+ a crack, the carving was great, but I couldn't get my shit together on my heelside stops. Instead I decided to just learn how to carve better ducky. :wink:


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## Pointy Deity (Dec 12, 2014)

I tried +/+ for a few days last season. I felt like it was a lot easier to initiate and control heelside carves. I didn't have to ride the tail as much or get as low to get a good heelside carve. For some reason, I didn't like it as much for tighter turns in trees and moguls, so I went back to riding duck. If I knew I was going to spend the whole day carving, I'd do +/+ again.


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