# Need more edge control



## foobaz (Jan 28, 2015)

Edge control is a quality of the rider, not the board.

Take a look at the Yes Greats 2015/2016.


----------



## Thebombster (Feb 13, 2016)

I have no problem carving this board at all it just isn't a board that is exactly designed for hard/ice. Thanks for the suggestion


----------



## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

Thebombster said:


> I have no problem carving this board at all it just isn't a board that is exactly designed for hard/ice. Thanks for the suggestion


that is an inherent quality of a rockered board...but it can be overcome by skillZ

otherwise get a traditional cambered for edge control on ice


----------



## tanscrazydaisy (Mar 11, 2013)

Thebombster said:


> So I've been riding a Burton custom Flying V this season and the edge bite is terrible on hard pack/ice. It is a monster at carving on packed powder etc but hard/icy get squirrelly. I'm looking for a new board that has good edge control on hard/ice condition, but also has a medium or medium soft flex to butter and mess around while my girlfriend is leading on the green trails


you have a flying-V.... that's why.

Keep those edges sharp.

I have a Sherlock Flying-V, after some initial adjustments (as I'm used to stiff camber boards) on myself while riding, I don't have issues on ice.


----------



## foobaz (Jan 28, 2015)

foobaz said:


> Take a look at the Yes Greats 2015/2016.


Or, if you prefer CRC, you could look at the Never Summer Type Two.


----------



## Fielding (Feb 15, 2015)

Nothing but pure camber and sharp edges will do when you really wanna hold a line on ice. Blended camber rocker boards are fun but they have certain limits. A really skilled rider can probably overcome those limits. But as a mere mortal I need gear suited to the conditions. I have a Burton Custom 163 I ride when it gets hard. The board is pure camber and is unforgiving. You can't make half-hearted turns. Instead, you've gotta set up and commit every time. It holds a line really well though.


----------



## foobaz (Jan 28, 2015)

Fielding said:


> Nothing but pure camber and sharp edges will do when you really wanna hold a line on ice.


Nope .


----------



## Fielding (Feb 15, 2015)

foobaz said:


> Nope .


Hey look maybe you've got mad skills and can hold a line on whatever park pickle or noodle board you ride. Good for you. Maybe you believe in the edge holding power of magic bumps or serrations on your rails. If that works for you then good. I don't begrudge you whatever it is you wanna ride down the mountain. I currently own a bunch of boards. Without naming brands and models, i've got pure camber, CRC, pure rocker, RCR, and flat to rocker. When it's hardpack conditions I reach for the camber board if I wanna go fast and make nice, well-linked, connected S-turns. Not that other profiles couldn't be ridden. But the camber board is best suited to the job of riding ice if you don't just wanna skid all over the place.

PS This morning I put first tracks in 8 inches of fresh on my brand new Unity Reverse 164 --that's an all rocker, super soft board. My mind was blown. It was an awesome board for the job. This afternoon I'm gonna take out a little RCR board to do some social riding.


----------



## foobaz (Jan 28, 2015)

There's a big difference between



Fielding said:


> Nothing but pure camber and sharp edges will do when you really wanna hold a line on ice.


and



Fielding said:


> Not that other profiles couldn't be ridden. But the camber board is best suited to the job of riding ice if you don't just wanna skid all over the place.


----------



## Fielding (Feb 15, 2015)

foobaz said:


> there's a big difference between
> 
> 
> 
> and


do you even carve bro?


----------



## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

Very icy conditions you gotta keep on top of your edges and technique. 

Add some fwd lean to your highbacks and sharpen your edges. If that doesnt work, either...... go slower on ice or get a full camber board.


----------



## Thebombster (Feb 13, 2016)

I can carve on ice with this board it's just not enjoyable at all, I guess I'm more or less looking for a 2nd board that I can have a good edge hold on ice but more or less just to do butter and mess around with as my gf is just learning so it's more go 10ft stop go 10ft stop on green hills


----------



## Fielding (Feb 15, 2015)

I ride greens and blues with my kid. He's just gotten to a point where he is linking turns. He takes a while to get down the mountain. When I'm with him I ride maybe 30 yards and stop. 30 yards then stop. My fave board for doing this is rocker in the middle with some camber under the bindings. It basically has 5 contact points per rail. Two are primary (in center of the board rocker section) and four are secondary (under each binding). The secondary contact points only really get engaged when you weight the board in a turn. They aren't catchy like the contact points outside of the bindings on a full camber board. My chase the kid board is 161cm so it's small and nimble compared to my other boards. It's a NS CObra from a couple years ago.


----------



## KIRKRIDER (Mar 18, 2008)

Thebombster said:


> So I've been riding a Burton custom Flying V this season and the edge bite is terrible on hard pack/ice. It is a monster at carving on packed powder etc but hard/icy get squirrelly. I'm looking for a new board that has good edge control on hard/ice condition, but also has a medium or medium soft flex to butter and mess around while my girlfriend is leading on the green trails


Don't ride ice. Ice sucks.0


----------



## speedjason (May 2, 2013)

Get better at edging. I ride a board with fucked up edges riding over concreted and to be honest, I don't feel any difference. Still carve like a MOFO.


----------



## sidewall (Nov 6, 2009)

OP, have you tried Lib Tech or Gnu? Magne-traction's great on ice.


----------



## Thebombster (Feb 13, 2016)

yea I was looking into lib tech I don't want a noodle but just something more playful for the green hills that has good edge hold, my burton is fine for carving hard pack, but going slow and stopping ever 30ft it's not fun, when I hit a black diamond with it I have no issue at all but it's just not enjoyable at slow speeds on ice. Id say this board is a medium stiffness it's not bad to butter at all just looking for a more playful board to throw around at slower speeds while my gf is learning


----------



## Thebombster (Feb 13, 2016)

Think I'm gonna look into lib tech, and then just run the custom when my gf isn't along


----------



## sidewall (Nov 6, 2009)

Yeah, you'll be glad you did. It will change the way you look at riding ice.


----------



## ek9max (Apr 8, 2013)

I have a 2016 Yes greats and 2016 NS type 2. 

The Type 2 has been a better board in every category for me. 

And dealing with ice, it seems to have better edge hold also.


----------



## linvillegorge (Jul 6, 2009)

KIRKRIDER said:


> Don't ride ice. Ice sucks.0


I think this is the correct answer. It's called SNOWboarding for a reason.


----------



## taco tuesday (Jul 26, 2014)

Thebombster said:


> Think I'm gonna look into lib tech, and then just run the custom when my gf isn't along


If you go with lib or another brand that has magnetraction, find one that has mellow mag(less bumps and less drastic). I have a Gnu and Smokin that are mellow mag and they seem to offer a bit of extra grip without drag. I bought a Lib with full mag this year, I actually hate it on harpack/ice. The bumps cause a noticeable drag that slows you down.


----------



## poutanen (Dec 22, 2011)

As far as I'm concerned, the only board stats to look at when looking at edgehold are effective edge and sidecut radius.

Effective edge - Length of edge that will be in contact with the ice when the board is on an angle (more is better)

Sidecut radius - If you were to draw a circle using the sidecut of a board as the guide, the radius of that circle is the sidecut radius. A longer sidecut radius means that you have to tilt the board more to get the same turn radius out of the board. A board that is tilted more has its edge closer to a right angle with the ice. The closer you get to that right angle, the more grip you'll have. (think of a hockey stop on skates, if you want a long slide you don't tilt the skates much, lean way over and you stop faster)

The average 160 cm board seems to have about 125 cm of effective edge. There's a thread on here somewhere of boards with a longer edge than that.

The average 160 cm board has about 7.5-8.0m sidecut. There are some boards under 7, and a few with 9+.

If anyone has a chance to try riding a boardercross board one day, do it. There's a reason they build them in that weird shape. Edgehold!


----------



## freshy (Nov 18, 2009)

+1 for magnetraction. While I don't think it's the best thing ever or something it's edge hold cannot be denied. It does make riding ice very easy, and I love it for the times you hit unexpected ice mid turn. True full camber + sharp edges + skill will get you through an icy day with ease as well but it's not going to help as much for the unexpected mid turn ice. It's also true that it will cause some drag but I'm still ripping past people all the time and never have I thought it slows me down in a hindering kind of way.


----------



## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

poutanen said:


> A board that is tilted more has its edge closer to a right angle with the ice. The closer you get to that right angle, the more grip you'll have. (think of a hockey stop on skates, if you want a long slide you don't tilt the skates much, lean way over and you stop faster)


And that's the reason why one has to ride icy deliberately with + attitude. If you go "oooh, there's an icy patch, oooh, I'll slip" you stiffen up, tilt the board less and consequently _will_ slip cos you rob the edge the possibility to grip. If you go " ah, icy patch ahead, you're mine!" and _tackle_ that ice, push yourself, tilt the board.

On occasions when I don't have the mindset and slip around on icy conditions I try to remember hubs words "You don't have to _try_ to carve on ice, you've to _do_ it"... same board, same run, but ridden with determination? The patches where I slipped around the run before, the edges now bite.


----------



## Seppuccu (Dec 4, 2012)

poutanen said:


> As far as I'm concerned, the only board stats to look at when looking at edgehold are effective edge and sidecut radius.


And edge bevel, y0.


----------



## Lamps (Sep 3, 2011)

Anticrobotic said:


> And edge bevel, y0.


A lot of people forget this, it matters. 

However, I have both Flying V and cambered boards from burton and although I ride the FV boards differently I can't fully compensate, the cambered boards have better edge hold for me. I keep everything sharp. 

Stiffness is a factor too, although all my stuff is pretty stiff, softest deck is a Sherlock.


----------



## SGboarder (Jun 24, 2012)

Anticrobotic said:


> And edge bevel, y0.


You can change the bevel, but there is nothing you can do about the sidecut and the effective edge (short of bashing your board into something hard).


----------



## poutanen (Dec 22, 2011)

Anticrobotic said:


> And edge bevel, y0.


Yeah, that's a setup issue not a board purchasing issue though.

I ride with no bevel on the bottom, and 2 degrees on the sides. People say you're more likely to catch an edge that way, but I prefer to have my edges as grippy as possible.

I honestly don't think that 0.5-1.0 degree of bottom bevel is going to make a board any less "catchy" when you make a mistake and drop your downhill edge while moving downhill.

Another thing to think about when riding ice is slowing down, and completing your turns. Turns control speed, so trying to complete nice full rounded turns will keep speed in check and give you a chance of maintaining some semblance of control. >


----------



## Mystery2many (Aug 14, 2013)

Edge hold on ice and hard pack is 99% technique. Weight distribution, body posture, knee bend and relaxed confidence. Different board tech can help but without proper technique you're just compensating for a serious problem.


----------



## Seppuccu (Dec 4, 2012)

poutanen said:


> Turns control speed, so trying to complete nice full rounded turns will keep speed in check and give you a chance of maintaining some semblance of control. >


Also, it increases your chances of getting hit from behind by a skier by approximately 900%. :grin: :dry:


----------



## speedjason (May 2, 2013)

Mystery2many said:


> Edge hold on ice and hard pack is 99% technique. Weight distribution, body posture, knee bend and relaxed confidence. Different board tech can help but without proper technique you're just compensating for a serious problem.


Edge hold on ice is about to find where the limit is.
The right board will definitely help expanding that limit.
Honestly, if it's pure ice, I don't think an edge is gonna hold.


----------



## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

speedjason said:


> Edge hold on ice is about to find where the limit is.
> The right board will definitely help expanding that limit.
> Honestly, if it's pure ice, I don't think an edge is gonna hold.


Hmmm... mild objection... edge hold is about tilt. If there's the right tilt, even few inches of an edge in contact with boilerplate ice will hold. Check at ~1min... I can even hop with only some contact points gripping pure ice and they hold firm cos the tilt is given by the steepness of the slope: http://www.snowboardingforum.com/snowboarding-general-chat/168809-how-steep-steep.html post no. 210


----------



## poutanen (Dec 22, 2011)

Mystery2many said:


> Edge hold on ice and hard pack is 99% technique. Weight distribution, body posture, knee bend and relaxed confidence. Different board tech can help but without proper technique you're just compensating for a serious problem.


Overall I'd say that's a good analysis, but there are some fundamental measurements that can be a good indicator of edgehold. Effective edge length is probably the biggest.

A 170 cm alpine board is going to offer more edge hold than a 160 cm traditional board. Don't believe me? Go ask world cup ski racers what a longer edge does... :grin:


----------



## Phedder (Sep 13, 2014)

poutanen said:


> A 170 cm alpine board is going to offer more edge hold than a 160 cm traditional board. Don't believe me? Go ask world cup ski racers what a longer edge does... :grin:


Gets them a heli ride when it finally _does_ slip? :embarrased1:


----------

