# Flow NX2 Binding Preview 2013



## Rider161

Awesome thanks for the video.


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## grafta

Ah ha! Dope idea. My buddy just got the Gnu binders with the extra latch on the strap thingy. Looks like Flow is one step ahead. Well played!


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## Leo

Eff YEA! Flow just responded to all of our concerns with one product design. That is just so sweet. I now have a hard on for these bindings. 

I got off Flows because the lack of canting... it now has canting. I like toe cap designs... it now has toe caps. People complained about it being too tough to tighten the straps down... now that has been solved. 

Hopefully these bindings aren't as stiff as the other NXT bindings.


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## TMXMOTORSPORTS

Damn those look sweet.:thumbsup:


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## volboy23

Those bindings look great! Amazing all of the integration and adaptations they have made for requests by riders. I have never ridden flows before, but these definitely have me wanting to try.


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## GorgeDad

Great, now i need to replace my sorta new Flows with the newest mack-daddy Flows. That wasn't in the budget... which i'll have to revise.


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## Sick-Pow

I like the alternative entry option for massive deep pow days. You can tell they are listening to the pros like Mike Basich.


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## Nsane1

wow, my next bindings might just have to be these. Awesome idea Flow. Way to listen to your customers.


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## zk0ot

SO hard to not to yell "COPIERS!!!"


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## Leo

zk0ot said:


> SO hard to not to yell "COPIERS!!!"


I see, people jumped on the easy entry binding market after Flow and they are cool even though they have highbacks that drop down and lock up. Flow takes all critique and competition into consideration and redesigns their product and they are the copiers.

Makes sense to me.

One aspect of the NX2 I would say was copied is the webbed toe strap. Screams RIDE. I'm not complaining though as I'm a big fan of that design.


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## Ryan_T

As with most things these days, there's very few original ideas left. What matters is the execution.


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## grafta

Ryan_T said:


> As with most things these days, there's very few original ideas left. What matters is the execution.


And form follows function with bindings. You can't make some wildly different that's function is to strap feet to a board.


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## Nivek

zk0ot said:


> SO hard to not to yell "COPIERS!!!"


Oh yeah? Is it? Why cause they're doing a lifted strap? Who copied who first? Drop down highbacks was a Flow first. Oops. Go home.


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## TMXMOTORSPORTS

Nivek said:


> Oh yeah? Is it? Why cause they're doing a lifted strap? Who copied who first? Drop down highbacks was a Flow first. Oops. Go home.


:laugh::laugh:I can't wait to get my hands on these.


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## KIRKRIDER

Nivek said:


> Oh yeah? Is it? Why cause they're doing a lifted strap? Who copied who first? Drop down highbacks was a Flow first. Oops. Go home.


The highback rising WITH the plate look exactly as my K2 Cinch CTX system. Best entry ever. Especially with skinny boots.
Looks cool, but they haven't simplified the design...it has 3 straps instead of 2 now.


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## zk0ot

grafta said:


> And form follows function with bindings. You can't make some wildly different that's function is to strap feet to a board.


I strongly Agree... and this statement has cooled my fire down immensely. thank you.




Nivek said:


> Oh yeah? Is it? Why cause they're doing a lifted strap? Who copied who first? Drop down highbacks was a Flow first. Oops. Go home.


Im not out to offend. Nivek i know you are a strong supporter of Flow. i opposingly support K2. ( i have no hard feelings) Yes flow got into the drop down bindings before k2... but not first*. More upset in that they took the lifting strap idea. As grafta said there isnt many things to do. but atleast change the idea to make it better. 

*I have a pair of vintage nidecker rear entry bindings from mid 90s


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## Leo

Had to look that up zKoot lol. Nidecker Soft Back'in soft bindings? Released in '96. Flow was also in '96 but after Nidecker. 

Flow utilizes the "Power Triangle" which I believe is patented.

Anyway, all of this is just interesting discussion topic. Point is, Flow redesigned their binding completely in response to all the criticism/suggestions. That is awesome no matter how you slice it.


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## Bretfred

Was looking to get into the quick entry bindings after this season. Might have to check these out if the reviews are good. Never be the first to try anything new unless its free lol.


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## zk0ot

yea they were super ugly... lol

all i can do is accept it... i really have no foot to stand on now selling cinch to my customers.


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## Sick-Pow

Ryan_T said:


> As with most things these days, there's very few original ideas left. What matters is the execution.


Boom, this.


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## Leo

zk0ot said:


> yea they were super ugly... lol
> 
> all i can do is accept it... i really have no foot to stand on now selling cinch to my customers.


This is what I'm really interesting in seeing play out. If the new Flows turn out to be a performer, what will that mean for GNU and K2?

How will you sell those over the Flows? The only thing I can think of is price. The NX2 bindings will most definitely be pricier. Flow bindings command a premium.


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## t21

I definitely know what i'm replacing my flow 5 with :cheeky4:


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## Sudden_Death

Wasn't someone going on about Flows not offering canting because of their rockered baseplate it wasn't needed/couldn't be done. Coulda sworn I read something like that in the last week or so.


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## CheoSamad

Looks insanely awesome. I never liked step ins but I might have to try these....


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## Nivek

KIRKRIDER said:


> The highback rising WITH the plate look exactly as my K2 Cinch CTX system. Best entry ever. Especially with skinny boots.
> Looks cool, but they haven't simplified the design...it has 3 straps instead of 2 now.


Exactly? Far from it. You have more moving parts. Flow has the same number of moving parts as before, they just attached the strap to the highback in an engineered spot instead of the frame. Your whole frame lifts when you drop your highback. As far as the "three" straps. Not really. It's two with a connector and if you really look at it its going to be better and a more exact fit to different boots than before.


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## KIRKRIDER

well yes, the base of the binding lifts to align better with the boot as it enters. Looks to me the K2 open wider than the Flow. But let's wait for the 2013 model. I am not crazy about how the cable is left guide-less in the Flow. How the highback work when you change the angle?


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## Leo

Sudden_Death said:


> Wasn't someone going on about Flows not offering canting because of their rockered baseplate it wasn't needed/couldn't be done. Coulda sworn I read something like that in the last week or so.


I said that. That information was also something I got from WiredSports last year when I was talking about the lack of canting.

They might have done away with the rocker baseplate. They didn't mention that.

Edit: Oh, he did mention rocker baseplate.


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## Tarzanman

@#[email protected]#! I just got my Flow NXT bindings. Guess I'm buying some new ones next season :-/


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## t21

now as i watch the video several times,he mentioned about deep snow issue and he just unstrap one buckle(top)right? and that was it? that is much better than last years model.also i guess they only comes with 2.5 cant because its pretty common one that everyone uses.with this new tech they come up with i think i'll buy the fusion style 2013 binding. i like the even pressure on my boots.


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## onefutui2e

i had an old pair of flite 2s from a few years back. they were great convenience but i felt they didn't grip as well as i'd liked, and strapping in quick doesn't mean much when you have to wait for your buddies to get in themselves...

but i'd be very much willing to revisit them. i think a common complaint (aside from grip) was that the highbacks are very stiff and the base plate doesn't allow you to flex your board as easily. how true are these claims?

of course, any other opinions about these bindings (and the company) are appreciated.


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## Ryan_T

The micro-ratchets on my NXT-FSE sometimes slip on the ladder, or are very hard to unlock if my boot is still in and there's immense pressure on the clip. Oddly my old NXT-FS never does this. Having a proper full-sized ratchet is gonna be great. 


As for what happens to K2 and GNU, there strap side of the binding world can support many binding makers all doing the same stuff, I don't see why they can't co-exist. It'll just become a war of micro-updates like the strap bindings. People will choose by preference, style, price, etc.


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## comclovin

I think GNU and the like will still be around. People like choices, and have brand preferences. I have friends who swear by the Cinch, and won't ride anything else, so I can't imagine they'd come over to Flow at this point. I'm super stoked on this design, and definitely hope to check these out at SIA


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## BurtonAvenger

Just bring back Clicker! Saw these bindings last month and got to play with them insanely light, easy to open on the ratchets, sturdy, canted, I"m thinking these are going to be the game changer for Flow and some of the haters.


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## cjcameron11

For what its worth, i had some 2010 k2 ctc cinch and hated them i thought they were clunky, heavy had no padded footbeds and hated the ratchets. I swore i wouldn't touch rear entry bindings again but these flows have me reconsidering.


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## ETM

WOW flow just stepped it up. I have been riding NXT AT bindings for a few years now but I recently purchased some fastec bindings to gain more clearance on entry and exit. This new flow design addresses the same issue but does it in a single motion with less parts. Well done flow.


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## john doe

When I saw that Flow did almost nothing new for this season I figured they were working on something big for next. That's why I picked up last season's ATSE's. This new stuff has exceeded my wildest imagination. Such a simple yet genius solution. Not having canting was the only thing that really made me question getting Flows and was the reason I didn't push my friend hard to get Flows.

By the way. I remember the thing about Flows not being able to have canting because of the rocker base. I believed then as I do now that it was PR bullshit to keep Flow from looking bad for not having when every one else did.


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## bobthegood

So if these binders were a car, they say it usually takes a model year or so to work out the design flaws and material glitches. I'm a big Flow fan, and have had a number of sets over the years, and currently ride a pair of last years NXT-ATSEs, so I want them to do well. But I'm also thinking that I'll likely have to chew on my wallet hand, ride out the 2011's, and see how these new ones shake out.


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## Leo

bobthegood said:


> So if these binders were a car, they say it usually takes a model year or so to work out the design flaws and material glitches. I'm a big Flow fan, and have had a number of sets over the years, and currently ride a pair of last years NXT-ATSEs, so I want them to do well. But I'm also thinking that I'll likely have to chew on my wallet hand, ride out the 2011's, and see how these new ones shake out.


If we can get our hands on these at Test Fest, David Z and I are planning on riding them all day on numerous boards this Feb. We want to fully test these bindings out as it's a pretty radical change to Flow bindings. 

We will definitely post our thoughts in them shortly after.


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## jliu

Okay totally noob question about Flow bindings...

With conventional bindings...when I pack my board/bindings into my board bag...I fold my high backs down and ratchet the straps over it to make the form factor as small as possible. How does one do that with Flow bindings (even the old design)? If you were to keep the high backs down...in the "open entry/exit position"...it would hang over the edge of the board...and be too wide to fit in a board bag...is there something you disconnect? This is just a random question that came to mind...


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## Leo

You can fold the highbacks down the same way with all Flow bindings. On the normal cap strap design, you would just undo one side of the cap so you can lift it out of the way to drop the highbacks.

You should be able to do the same with these as well. Not completely sure about that though. Maybe Wired knows the answer.


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## john doe

bobthegood said:


> So if these binders were a car, they say it usually takes a model year or so to work out the design flaws and material glitches. I'm a big Flow fan, and have had a number of sets over the years, and currently ride a pair of last years NXT-ATSEs, so I want them to do well. But I'm also thinking that I'll likely have to chew on my wallet hand, ride out the 2011's, and see how these new ones shake out.


I'm hoping that the lack of anything new in the 11/12 season means they spent a full year testing these to keep first year fuck ups to a minimum. But I really think there won't be any problems. The ratchets are the only complicated piece. Every thing else is just a normal strap or pivot point.


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## Donutz

I just realized I need new bindings.


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## slyder

Donutz said:


> I just realized I need new bindings.


amazing I just realized the same thing :dunno:

now my big debate is to "Toe Cap" or "Power Strap"


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## dcorn

Well shit. I was just about to buy some '12 CTX's and decided to research. Now I'm torn. I want new bindings this season, but these look pretty good. I think they killed off all their 2012 sales because everyone is going to want the new tech.


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## henry06x

It's about freaking time! All the reasons that kept me from getting them they finally fixed. Too bad I just got the new capo... Maybe in 2 years


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## Nivek

slyder said:


> amazing I just realized the same thing :dunno:
> 
> now my big debate is to "Toe Cap" or "Power Strap"


Come Feb I'll let you know how the cap works. I will do everything in my power to get in these by then.

From the looks and on pure speculation the I-Strap should still be more comfortable. Cap may be a bit more "locked".


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## slyder

Nivek said:


> Come Feb I'll let you know how the cap works. I will do everything in my power to get in these by then.
> 
> From the looks and on pure speculation the I-Strap should still be more comfortable. Cap may be a bit more "locked".


My local guy is thinking of carrying Flow's I just sent him a text to see if he can get a pair to demo. Long shot but worth asking. Really not sure if I want the toe strap or not.
Keep us posted and give us the true dirt as you always do.


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## RJJ

Firstly, thanks so much wiredsport for the scoop. You guys are great and always fast to answer any questions I have. 

Secondly, I don't mind it if these new Flow's have been 'influenced' by designs like the Cinch. If the result is a better design and a better product, I applaud them. Improving on other peoples design is how business works, after all, the iPod wasn't the first digital hard drive music player, or even close to it. 

I really like the simplicity of this Flow design, and like all simple designs, it is amazing no one came up with it earlier. Of course we wont know how well it works until they get tested, but I hope they perform as well as look like they might. I also think that new strap design looks great. 

I love it when companies innovate with (what looks like)great new ideas being made into products. Well done Flow, (and well done wiredsport).


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## CJP911

strange not to hear any concern about the ridiculously thick footbed.

have heard complaints about how the Ride footbed, for example, does not give great board feel and this footbed seems as think, if not thicker, than the wedgie. still awesome to see they've added a canting option. 

either way, can't wait to hear the reviews. sounds like an awesome binding and one I'll probably hold off upgrading for.


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## Leo

It's hard to do canting and offer a ton of board feel at the same time. The best tech for this is Burton's AutoCant. By nature, canted footbeds must be thicker at least on one side.

But I'm guessing no one is really talking about it because there are so many other things to be stoked about on this design. 

I personally don't mind Ride bindings. I love them actually. To each its own.


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## skippy79

I'm looking to get a board and some bindings, I was going to buy the flow NXT AT bindings, but do you think I should just rent for the 10 days I'm going to and wait till the new flows come out? 
I can also pick up a pair of second hand burton custom bindings fairly cheap, do that for this season and then wait for the new flows? or just rent and wait till 2013? 
Cause now I've seen the new flows theres no chance I'll be buying the NXT-TA's


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## henry06x

skippy79 said:


> I'm looking to get a board and some bindings, I was going to buy the flow NXT AT bindings, but do you think I should just rent for the 10 days I'm going to and wait till the new flows come out?
> I can also pick up a pair of second hand burton custom bindings fairly cheap, do that for this season and then wait for the new flows? or just rent and wait till 2013?
> Cause now I've seen the new flows theres no chance I'll be buying the NXT-TA's


Get the customs and wait. With what youd spend renting you might as well get a cheap setup. It's much nicer having your own setup that's the same every time you ride. Plus then you will always have a back up set up just incase something happens.


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## john doe

Get the customs. Then you can sell them next year or keep them as back ups.


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## Nivek

CJP911 said:


> strange not to hear any concern about the ridiculously thick footbed.
> 
> have heard complaints about how the Ride footbed, for example, does not give great board feel and this footbed seems as think, if not thicker, than the wedgie. still awesome to see they've added a canting option.
> 
> either way, can't wait to hear the reviews. sounds like an awesome binding and one I'll probably hold off upgrading for.


That was my first fear when I say them, thick footbed. Imma scared but we'll see.


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## solucien

who copied who?
Flow 1997












zk0ot said:


> SO hard to not to yell "COPIERS!!!"


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## zk0ot

solucien said:


> who copied who?
> Flow 1997


a little quick to pull the trigger with your first post. 
Read a little further through this thread... starting your rep with a troll right out of the gate...


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## solucien

I like to make a grand entrance 
And sorry, it wasn't personal.
I actually read the whole thread, as I've silently been reading this forum quite some time, and I noticed more commenters feeling Flow followed K2 Cinch, GNU/SP Fastech and others.
Just wanted to throw in a little perspective.
And to be honest (don't want to troll more), I'm somewhat of a Flow-insider. I'll keep as silent as I can, but ask me anything you like.
Props to this forum, its awesome, and helpful!! :thumbsup:

/back to silent-mode



zk0ot said:


> a little quick to pull the trigger with your first post.
> Read a little further through this thread... starting your rep with a troll right out of the gate...


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## comclovin

solucien said:


> I like to make a grand entrance
> And sorry, it wasn't personal.
> I actually read the whole thread, as I've silently been reading this forum quite some time, and I noticed more commenters feeling Flow followed K2 Cinch, GNU/SP Fastech and others.
> Just wanted to throw in a little perspective.
> And to be honest (don't want to troll more), I'm somewhat of a Flow-insider. I'll keep as silent as I can, but ask me anything you like.
> Props to this forum, its awesome, and helpful!! :thumbsup:
> 
> /back to silent-mode



ahh wow, haven't seen that "logo" in quite some time there. hah. Man, how bindings have progressed eh?


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## zk0ot

solucien said:


> I'm somewhat of a Flow-insider.


why didnt you come up with 96 like some of us did?


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## solucien

What do you mean?
I know Flow came on the market in '96, if that is what you refer to.
This binding from '97 though, already had a strap that opened up when you pop the hiback down. ActiveStrap, I think not a lot of people knew that, and just a couple years before Cinch and Gnu etc..



zk0ot said:


> why didnt you come up with 96 like some of us did?


Another info-bite: it wasn't PR that Flow bindings could not have full EVA (canted) foodbeds because of the rockered baseplate. The rocker baseplate is still here to allow a more natural boardflex, much needed on Alu baseplates. But before ActiveStrap (NASTY) there would be too much friction to get in&out. Now that the straps opens up, these Flow bindings can have the cushy footbeds the teamriders and you guys asked for


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## zk0ot

idk... i dont want to bicker about bindings anymore. my copiers comment was only about the hinging strap. they did what they did to make their binding better. i get it. theyll sell more bindings becasue of it.


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## TMXMOTORSPORTS

I'm somewhat of a Flow-insider. I'll keep as silent as I can said:


> Flow-insider?Do I know you?This is what I ask when are you going to hook me up with these binding?
> Yes this forum is awesome and helpful.


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## Donutz

=sigh= So, since I'm going to be getting new Flow bindings next year anyway, my board's a couple years old too...


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## Grasschopper

Oh yea...I'm getting these. Anyone know the pricing yet?


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## john doe

This is just a guess but the price will be about what the current NXT line is. Those in the video will be $280 MSRP just like the current NXT-ATSE's are. I'm also going to guess you will have a hard time finding them later in the season discounted.


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## GorgeDad

Grasschopper said:


> Oh yea...I'm getting these. Anyone know the pricing yet?


As Wiredsport stated in another thread: "the NX2 SE has an MSRP of $319, which is $10.00 above MSRP on the current season NXT AT-SE."


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## slyder

My local guy knows I love the flows. He has tried talking me into other brands often. He will now be carrying Flow's and when he was at SIA this week, he was talking to the rep working out details. 
He told the rep he already sold a pair. 
Those would be mine :cheeky4: (black yellow Nx2 AT)
I stopped in to talk to him about a new set up and he surprised me with this news









He's gonna try to get a set yet this year to demo, crossing my fingers.


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## ilikecoupons

anybody know when these these will be released? Actually, when will all the new 2013 equipment start going up for sale? I'm probably just gonna make my setup out of 2012 equipment on summer discounts and then drool over the 2013 equipment for a bit ^_^


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## Wiredsport

ilikecoupons said:


> anybody know when these these will be released? Actually, when will all the new 2013 equipment start going up for sale? I'm probably just gonna make my setup out of 2012 equipment on summer discounts and then drool over the 2013 equipment for a bit ^_^


Typically late August early September. So stoked to see the innovation for the upcoming year!


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## Aliaz

Looks really nice, Im loving my NXT-ATs and this design looks like a improvement.

Any info on the difference between models (GT vs AT for example?)


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## Wiredsport

Hi ALiaz,

The GT uses the Hybrid Strap with toe cap and gets and Asymetrical Urethane top panel to the mod back.

The AT uses the more traditional Flow strap (without toe cap) with a Glass filled Nylon top panel to the mod back.

More info here:

http://www.snowboardingforum.com/bindings/45319-flow-binding-2013-q.html


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## john doe

Anyone else notice that Lago was using the traditional strap at the x-games. I still can't decide if I want the new toe cap or not.


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## HiddenPerson

Wow, two ways to put to attach the binding to your foot. That makes life easier.

I used to have problems sliding in my foot with flow, but now it's super easy, I love flow bindings.


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## slyder

john doe said:


> Anyone else notice that Lago was using the traditional strap at the x-games. I still can't decide if I want the new toe cap or not.


got mine on order and I will be trying the new "toe cap" system.


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## GorgeDad

Wiredsport said:


> Hi ALiaz,
> 
> The GT uses the Hybrid Strap with toe cap and gets and Asymetrical Urethane top panel to the mod back.
> 
> The AT uses the more traditional Flow strap (without toe cap) with a Glass filled Nylon top panel to the mod back.
> 
> More info here:
> 
> http://www.snowboardingforum.com/bindings/45319-flow-binding-2013-q.html


What's the difference between those top panels, functionally? Is one 
"better" (more durable, etc.) than the other, or is it a flexibility thing?


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## Wiredsport

GorgeDad said:


> What's the difference between those top panels, functionally? Is one
> "better" (more durable, etc.) than the other, or is it a flexibility thing?


Hi GorgeDad,

Digging the name  The difference is the flex and feel of the top panel of the highback. The Urethane is more flexible at the cuff. The tradeoff there is typically maneuverability/freedom of motion vs. immediate responsiveness/accuracy. In this case however since it is the top panel only, the difference is more subtle than that.

Durability should not be a factor. These materials all have held up very well over the past few seasons.

As you are in Hood river, stop out for a visit early season. We will have all NX2 models set up for strap-in in Late August/Early September. Bring your boots


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## GorgeDad

Wiredsport said:


> Durability should not be a factor. These materials all have held up very well over the past few seasons.
> 
> As you are in Hood river, stop out for a visit early season. We will have all NX2 models set up for strap-in in Late August/Early September. Bring your boots


Thanks. Love my 2011 NXT-FSEs, though the only issue i've had with them was that I snapped one of the top panels. Flow replaced, it of course, but I wondered if that was an issue. 

I'll have to stop by for the strap in to see how that hybrid strap feels. I'm not psychic, but I definitely forsee 2013 GTs in my future!


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## losib3257

slyder said:


> got mine on order and I will be trying the new "toe cap" system.


Where did you find those?


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## losib3257

Wiredsport,

Are the NX2's a park binding? What model in their 2012 lineup is geared towards the park rider?


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## Wiredsport

losib3257 said:


> Wiredsport,
> 
> Are the NX2's a park binding? What model in their 2012 lineup is geared towards the park rider?


Hi Losib, There are 4 models in the NS2 lineup, but none of them are named NS2 alone. The bindings that related to the NXT AT and NXT AT SE from recent seasons are now most closely related to the NX2 AT and NX2 SE. The AT still refers to All Terrain. The SE is the softest of the NX2 group (still a 3.5 out of 5). That is the NX2 that would be most park oriented. The M9 is again available and is softer flexing and will received bomber upgrades this year, but does not get nasty yet.


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## losib3257

Wiredsport said:


> Hi Losib, There are 4 models in the NS2 lineup, but none of them are named NS2 alone. The bindings that related to the NXT AT and NXT AT SE from recent seasons are now most closely related to the NX2 AT and NX2 SE. The AT still refers to All Terrain. The SE is the softest of the NX2 group (still a 3.5 out of 5). That is the NX2 that would be most park oriented. The M9 is again available and is softer flexing and will received bomber upgrades this year, but does not get nasty yet.


Will the NX2 SE have the available toe cap?


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## Wiredsport

losib3257 said:


> Will the NX2 SE have the available toe cap?


Yes, it will come with the toe cap (hybrid strap). The SE is the Orange binding in the original video I had posted. The Yellow binding posted in the last few photos is an alternate color way of the same model.


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## dreampow

I know I could probably find this out with some research but what is the do it all flow binding?

The cartel, the binding which allows for pretty good freeride control but has enough play to do some freestyle all over the mountain?


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## Leo

dreampow said:


> I know I could probably find this out with some research but what is the do it all flow binding?
> 
> The cartel, the binding which allows for pretty good freeride control but has enough play to do some freestyle all over the mountain?


Usually the AT series... I'm thinking NX2 SE for 2013.

On that note, I walked away quite disappointed in the new Flow bindings from the demo. I told the reps straight up, I feel like it needs another year of refining. Once you are in the binding though, it handles great. The two major problems are that both David and I had a bad pressure points on our outer toes. We both have different foot size and boots too. 

The other issue we had was the speed-entry aspect of it. Basically put, you lose the speed-entry benefit because you have to fiddle with the toe cap each time you step in. Also, they changed the highback lock. It no longer "clips" into place so you can no longer just yank them open at the bottom of the run. You have to bend your leg forward (like using the flex of your boot for a toe-side) and use this "flicking" technique. With no boots in the binding, the flicking technique is super easy. When you are actually in the binding, this technique doesn't work so well.

David and I will have a full review of the bindings soon. I'll just say that we rode them on two different boards. We didn't use them more because it was hurting our feet and honestly couldn't take the time to adjust them ourselves (other than the typical strap adjustments). We had to get to other products.


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## Wiredsport

dreampow said:


> I know I could probably find this out with some research but what is the do it all flow binding?
> 
> The cartel, the binding which allows for pretty good freeride control but has enough play to do some freestyle all over the mountain?


At the high end, the AT (all terrain) and SE (Used to mean All Terrain Special Edition). Also, plenty of riders like the M9 or The Five for a softer flexing all mountain feel. Both of thos models are hugely upgraded this year.


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## danm

Leo said:


> Usually the AT series... I'm thinking NX2 SE for 2013.
> 
> On that note, I walked away quite disappointed in the new Flow bindings from the demo. I told the reps straight up, I feel like it needs another year of refining. Once you are in the binding though, it handles great. The two major problems are that both David and I had a bad pressure points on our outer toes. We both have different foot size and boots too.
> 
> The other issue we had was the speed-entry aspect of it. Basically put, you lose the speed-entry benefit because you have to fiddle with the toe cap each time you step in. Also, they changed the highback lock. It no longer "clips" into place so you can no longer just yank them open at the bottom of the run. You have to bend your leg forward (like using the flex of your boot for a toe-side) and use this "flicking" technique. With no boots in the binding, the flicking technique is super easy. When you are actually in the binding, this technique doesn't work so well.
> 
> David and I will have a full review of the bindings soon. I'll just say that we rode them on two different boards. We didn't use them more because it was hurting our feet and honestly couldn't take the time to adjust them ourselves (other than the typical strap adjustments). We had to get to other products.


Wow, that really sucks... probably no chance for Flow to tweak the design before full production....


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## Leo

danm said:


> Wow, that really sucks... probably no chance for Flow to tweak the design before full production....


No, many companies tweak their products before production. That's one of the main reasons why they do these demos.


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## danm

Leo said:


> No, many companies tweak their products before production. That's one of the main reasons why they do these demos.


Sweet, thought they might have had all the tooling done for the 2013 and then make tweaks to the season after... 

Well hopefully the wrinkles get ironed, as I mentioned in another post I'm tentatively planning on an NS Cobra/NX2 SE setup for next season... (already got the wifes approval!!!)

Thanks Leo


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## TMXMOTORSPORTS

Leo said:


> Usually the AT series... I'm thinking NX2 SE for 2013.
> 
> On that note, I walked away quite disappointed in the new Flow bindings from the demo. I told the reps straight up, I feel like it needs another year of refining. Once you are in the binding though, it handles great. The two major problems are that both David and I had a bad pressure points on our outer toes. We both have different foot size and boots too.
> 
> The other issue we had was the speed-entry aspect of it. Basically put, you lose the speed-entry benefit because you have to fiddle with the toe cap each time you step in. Also, they changed the highback lock. It no longer "clips" into place so you can no longer just yank them open at the bottom of the run. You have to bend your leg forward (like using the flex of your boot for a toe-side) and use this "flicking" technique. With no boots in the binding, the flicking technique is super easy. When you are actually in the binding, this technique doesn't work so well.
> 
> David and I will have a full review of the bindings soon. I'll just say that we rode them on two different boards. We didn't use them more because it was hurting our feet and honestly couldn't take the time to adjust them ourselves (other than the typical strap adjustments). We had to get to other products.


Damn Leo I did not want to hear that at all.Take it back:laugh:


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## Sick-Pow

Leo said:


> No, many companies tweak their products before production. That's one of the main reasons why they do these demos.


Any examples of this? 

Most production is happening right now from what I know.


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## Wiredsport

Hi Leo,

What boot sizes do you guys have? Not in any way questioning your experience with these, but it is just the exact opposite of what we were hearing/feeling up there. Tons of raves on the hill for the new Hybrid/Nasty setup. I guess feets will aways be feets though.


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## Sick-Pow

No one listens to complaints at Demo time. Of course you are hyping your product for your shop.


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## danm

Wiredsport said:


> Hi Leo,
> 
> What boot sizes do you guys have? Not in any way questioning your experience with these, but it is just the exact opposite of what we were hearing/feeling up there. Tons of raves on the hill for the new Hybrid/Nasty setup. I guess feets will aways be feets though.


Care to share some detailed reports?


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## Death

Always been a fan of flow, it might be time to go back to them


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## Nivek

Sick-Pow said:


> No one listens to complaints at Demo time. Of course you are hyping your product for your shop.


I didn't come home with NXT2's cause they aren't dialed and are changing for production.

Half the products a company shows you at SIA aren't finalized and they plan on doing some tweak or another before full production.

I didn't get my Hylites or M9se's this year till September cause they switched things up a bit from the SIA demo last year.


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## Leo

Sick-Pow said:


> Any examples of this?
> 
> Most production is happening right now from what I know.


Never Summer has done this numerous times with their graphics. Union has tweaked their toe straps last year after demo days. Flow confirmed that at the very least, they are reducing the width of the heelcup in the NX2 line. They said that these demo pairs were made a bit too wide.



Wiredsport said:


> Hi Leo,
> 
> What boot sizes do you guys have? Not in any way questioning your experience with these, but it is just the exact opposite of what we were hearing/feeling up there. Tons of raves on the hill for the new Hybrid/Nasty setup. I guess feets will aways be feets though.


Dave has size 11 TM2 boots and I had size 10 Burton TWC boots. Don't get me wrong, once strapped in, the bindings worked very well. It's just that we both experienced the same pressure points. However, Dave and I fully acknowledged that this problem might be possibly eliminated if we had the time to personally adjust them fully.

Even the reps, they weren't just tent guys, told us they had the same issue with the toe caps. You have to fiddle with them when you step in because the webbing on the top folds under itself as you slide your boot in. Our midwest rep asked for my honest feedback and I told him that I think that toe cap needs the hard piece over the top of the webbing like the one below it. Although it would 100% look like a Ride ThinGrip with that fix. He completely agreed with me and said that is exactly what he was thinking.

The highback lock issue is something you have to get used to. The technique to unlock it is completely different from their usual clip in locks. I never had to bend my boot forward to unlock my '10 FSE like that.

I just think this new design needs a little more time. The rep brought up the point that this was a drastic change. Flow didn't just make minor changes, they were drastic changes and they expected some kinks. Since Flow is already making a change to the heelcup for production, hopefully they make other minor tweaks especially to the toe cap.


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## Wiredsport

Great info Leo. Of our guys who got to try them there was foot size 8, 10 and 12. The Size 8 said he needed to spend a good amount of time at first adjusting. It took him a run of tweaking to position the strap adjustments well so that they were comfy, after that it worked as expected. The two larger boots had no issues (which is why I asked about your boot sizes). Once dialed in all were majorly impressed. I had to bail on going to WP so I can't add anything first hand (bummed). 

As for the Toe Cap, go to :45 in the vid below. I do see a quick hand adjsutment at entry sometimes to get perfect alignment on the boot and I imagine this will become more/less of a factor on different boots. As with all bindings, havind the time to perfect positions, etc is a huge factor. We already heard here on the forum that Flow will be making at least one adjustment from the working proto to the production ready binding so possibly others are in the works.


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## danm

Quick question for anyone who demo'd these...

Did you just try the hybrid cap strap or did you try the traditional fusion strap too???

Seems like the fusion might be the way to go if they don't tweak the cap enough before production...


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## Leo

danm said:


> Quick question for anyone who demo'd these...
> 
> Did you just try the hybrid cap strap or did you try the traditional fusion strap too???
> 
> Seems like the fusion might be the way to go if they don't tweak the cap enough before production...


I wanted to, but figured I would gain nothing from it (meaning I wanted to demo other bindings I haven't tried). I have been riding Flows for about 5 seasons. I even told the reps, at this point, I prefer their power cap design. 

I would not get pressure points with the power caps as that design inherently prevents stuff like toe pinches which is what I experienced with the new strap. The power cap on the NX2 line lifts high up just like the rest. Looks very good. I only handled it.


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## Sick-Pow

Sounds like a complete need for a redesign (heel cup, straps) from Flow on this binding. Sad to see a product come half baked to market......with so many unanswered questions.


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## Leo

Sick-Pow said:


> Sounds like a complete need for a redesign (heel cup, straps) from Flow on this binding. Sad to see a product come half baked to market......with so many unanswered questions.


It's more just tweaks. They are just reducing the width of the heelcup. Only the toe strap needs work. The highback lock I'm not sure of. Should be one of those things you need to get used to.

Their new entry system works like a charm. The straps stay locked and are responsive once you are in. The ratchets work buttery smooth and the ratchet lock does not at all impede your quick exit via ratchets when needed. The release tab on the ratchet is also the lock tab. You just give them a small slap down and it locks. When exiting via ratchets, you do the same thing as any other traditional ratchet. They release very smoothly. 

By the way, these bindings were super light.


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## Ryan_T

I expected this. Hopefully the tweaks will be enough, I'm glad I still have my 2012 FSE to hold me over. Haha.


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## Wiredsport

Next year you will have 4 options. Conventional Flow entry and strap with the addition of full sized ratchets, Conventional Flow entry and new Hybrid strap with full sized ratchets, New Nasty entry and Coventional strap with the addition of full sized ratchets, New Nasty entry and Hybrid strap with the addition of full sized ratchets. When these are released in the Fall, stop by a shop and kick into each and see which one works best for your foot and your boots.


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## solucien

NX2's will get fully 'fixed' for production. Here's a few info-bits to address some of the concerns;

- Better fit of the toecap, but no huge design-change like adding a 'hard' bridge on the top over the toes. Improved material on the webbing.
- Better position of the toecap (slightly higher/steeper angle), so hand-adjustment while getting in is less likely needed.
- Making the LSR-buckles even more buttery-smooth to slap open, especially when you have em cranked down supertight (which is not really needed, but hey to everyone their own, and lets make that work).
- Better locked position of the medial adjustment-latch on the toecap, so they don't pop up while riding.
- Adding a 2nd adjustment position for the hiback&cable to the baseplate, so there is more boot-centering options for a better fit (along with the offset multi-disk).
- Way easier opening of the Snaplock, so Leo -and anyone else- can get in&out like he was used to. (on the Demo samples the hiback-locks where indeed a bit too difficult to open, so yes this needed a few tweaks)
- Contrary to some information here, the heelcup will not get reduced in width, but there will be some small tweaks on the inside baseplate-washer/spacers, and the hiback SupportPanels, for better fit and ease of entry&exit.

Nothing crazy, just the expected little tweaks that sometimes stay hidden while testing with just a small group of testers but that do come up after a large customer-base testing like during these demo's.
So don't worry about the product, just lets all hope for more snow next season!!


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## sxdaca

solucien said:


> NX2's will get fully 'fixed' for production. Here's a few info-bits to address some of the concerns;
> 
> - Better fit of the toecap, but no huge design-change like adding a 'hard' bridge on the top over the toes. Improved material on the webbing.
> - Better position of the toecap (slightly higher/steeper angle), so hand-adjustment while getting in is less likely needed.
> - Making the LSR-buckles even more buttery-smooth to slap open, especially when you have em cranked down supertight (which is not really needed, but hey to everyone their own, and lets make that work).
> - Better locked position of the medial adjustment-latch on the toecap, so they don't pop up while riding.
> - Adding a 2nd adjustment position for the hiback&cable to the baseplate, so there is more boot-centering options for a better fit (along with the offset multi-disk).
> - Way easier opening of the Snaplock, so Leo -and anyone else- can get in&out like he was used to. (on the Demo samples the hiback-locks where indeed a bit too difficult to open, so yes this needed a few tweaks)
> - Contrary to some information here, the heelcup will not get reduced in width, but there will be some small tweaks on the inside baseplate-washer/spacers, and the hiback SupportPanels, for better fit and ease of entry&exit.
> 
> Nothing crazy, just the expected little tweaks that sometimes stay hidden while testing with just a small group of testers but that do come up after a large customer-base testing like during these demo's.
> So don't worry about the product, just lets all hope for more snow next season!!


did they do anything that u mentioned


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