# Looking for New Board (Cobra, Raptor, Premier F1)



## ghuss37 (Dec 16, 2011)

I am a 2nd season rider. I am definitely still in the beginner intermediate category. I bought an Evo as my first board and have been having a ton of fun with it. My Evo tends to get a bit out of control when I try to go fast. I'm sure I'm mostly limited by my skill and not my board right now, but I'd like to get a 2nd board that I can use as a more all-mountain board. Is there a good never summer board for all-mountain conditions? I basically love riding powder, but when powder is not available I tend to ride the groomers, trees, and sometimes ice, haha...

Right now I have been looking at the following:

Cobra
Raptor
Premier F1

I'm 5'10" 180lbs


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## photocycler (Nov 27, 2010)

Are u keeping the evo if so maybe a heritage if not a cobra


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## ghuss37 (Dec 16, 2011)

Yeah, I will definitely be keeping the evo. The evo has a ton of pop and someday I'd like to get into the rails/jumps but not yet. Heritage looks like a decent option too.


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## djjimmyhat (Oct 22, 2012)

I vote heritage if you're sticking with NS.


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## ghuss37 (Dec 16, 2011)

Can anyone speak to the difference between the Cobra and Heritage? Another I've considered is the K2 Ultra Dream. I don't think I'll go with the raptor or F1, probably too stiff for me at this point.


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## BigmountainVMD (Oct 9, 2011)

I wouldn't expect a new board to all of a sudden make you better able to go fast. I have the Proto, same dampening as the Evo, and have only felt sketched approaching 50 mph a the bottom of a headwall. If you are set on getting a new board, try to switch up your brand to give something else a chance. Maybe a Lib TRS? Or a Niche Aether? Maybe a Arbor Westmark or Element?

A little stiffness will go a long way. If you have to stick with NS, the SL would be all the board you need for a while, I'd stay away from the Heritage. The Cobra is a pow board, so not the best choice unless thats all you are riding.


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## ghuss37 (Dec 16, 2011)

The resorts I go to are typically Keystone, Breckenridge, and Vail. I prefer powder, but there wasn't much of it last year. I'm hoping for more pow this year and that's what I prefer to ride, but want something good for pow and groomers...basically all-mountain right?


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## BigmountainVMD (Oct 9, 2011)

ghuss37 said:


> The resorts I go to are typically Keystone, Breckenridge, and Vail. I prefer powder, but there wasn't much of it last year. I'm hoping for more pow this year and that's what I prefer to ride, but want something good for pow and groomers...basically all-mountain right?


Yeah mang, NS SL is better especially if its only your second season. Great all arounder, still could take it on some boxes, great on jumps and groomers and the RC tech will make anything good in powder. The Heritage would be too much board, too stiff, and not as enjoyable.

The Lib Tech TRS would be similar to the SL I believe.


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## buggravy (Feb 19, 2008)

I've owned and ridden all 3 boards that you're considering. I'd shy away from the Raptor if I were you, but think you'd be fine on either the Cobra or the Premier. Premier is on the stiff side, but I bought the 09/10 version early in my 2nd season of riding and had no issues with it at all. If you're looking for the most versatile, the Cobra is going to be the way to go. It is NOT a pow board, but a killer all-mountain board that happens to excel in pow. I personally think there's a lot to be said for sticking with another NS board at your ability level. You'll get the differences that you're looking for, without the completely unfamiliar feel you might get from a different manufacturer, with different design, construction, etc.


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## Cycle4Fun (Feb 22, 2012)

I would steer toward the Cobra over the SL, or Heritage as a second deck. I would go with the Heritage over the SL as well.

Reviews say the Cobra has similar characteristics to the SL, but with a shape suited for powder. You'll be able to take the Cobra all around the mountain and would love it on powder days. Which you say you see (bastard).

Also as a second quiver board for mountain use only I would go with the heritage over the SL. The SL is playful and can be used for park. With only 1 board I would get the SL. The heritage is more of a free-ride deck and less of a park deck. Neither the SL or Heritage will be as easy to ride in the powder.

Cruising the mountain and enjoying powder, I'd go with the Cobra. On bad weather days hit the park with your Evo. What's the point of a quiver if you get a board that tries to do everything OK like the SL?

I was in a similar position to you last year. I had a cheap park board to learn on and upgraded at the end of last year. I demoed the SL and Raptor among other boards. I bought the SL, because I typically ride small hills with around 700ft of vertical. The SL is playful. The Heritage would be a little stiff for what I typically want to do on the mountain. 

The Raptor was my favorite board I demoed in Killington, Vt. The Raptor was amazing for hard charging and carving. A pure dream to ride. I've been thinking of what my last day of snowboarding was like all fall. Too bad the board is useless for 95% of the riding I do. I wanted a one board deck. The Raptor isn't it.


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## BigmountainVMD (Oct 9, 2011)

Going from the Evo to the Premier has to be the worst idea I could think of. I could spit in a snowboard shop 99% of the time it would land on a better option that the Premier. The Heritage would be better than the Premier, and the Cobra more so.

I can see the Cobra. That could be a viable option, but you can still make belly dragging carves on an SL. The flex/damp ratings are the same, but the Cobra is designed with powder in mind. The SL will be more viable in the park but will shine on groomers. You would be good with either. If you tend to ride more powder and big runs, go cobra. If you want to get more in to jumping and boxes and riding SWITCH but still want stability on bombing runs, get the SL.


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## lonerider (Apr 10, 2009)

ghuss37 said:


> The resorts I go to are typically Keystone, Breckenridge, and Vail. I prefer powder, but there wasn't much of it last year. I'm hoping for more pow this year and that's what I prefer to ride, but want something good for pow and groomers...basically all-mountain right?


No... all-mountain stands for "all-mountain freestyle" (unfortunate that it is so ambiguous)... what you are describe is freeriding (groomers and pow). I have owned the Evo, the SL and now the Proto. 

I'm one of those people who do "belly dragging carves on an SL" that BigmountainVMD is referring to... but I ride the SL 155 in the park as well.

If you are going to keep your Evo, I would go for the Heritage over the SL... I haven't ridden the Premier, but at your ability level I worry it might be too much board for you (too stiff for you).


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## jdang307 (Feb 6, 2011)

ghuss37 said:


> Can anyone speak to the difference between the Cobra and Heritage? Another I've considered is the K2 Ultra Dream. I don't think I'll go with the raptor or F1, probably too stiff for me at this point.


The Cobra is similar to the SL from what I've read, with a different shape.

I believe, and Snowolf will comment on this, that his feedback with the Heritage specifically (or indirectly) led to the Cobra shape. Which has a spade tail for great powder performance. It was the one thing he didn't think was great about the Heritage (powder).


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## hktrdr (Apr 3, 2012)

BigmountainVMD said:


> The Cobra is a pow board, so not the best choice unless thats all you are riding.


No it is not, it is a powder-friendly all-mountain board.
The Summit is NS's powder board.


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## lonerider (Apr 10, 2009)

jdang307 said:


> The Cobra is similar to the SL from what I've read, with a different shape.
> 
> I believe, and Snowolf will comment on this, that his feedback with the Heritage specifically (or indirectly) led to the Cobra shape. Which has a spade tail for great powder performance. It was the one thing he didn't think was great about the Heritage (powder).


That's odd... because this is what I got back from Never Summer in an email



Never Summer said:


> The Heritage is going to be similar to a slightly stiffer and more aggressive version of the SL. It is an all-mountain board in our Carbonium lineup and can handle any type of terrain. The Cobra is going to be similar to the Proto CT with some characteristics of the all-mountain boards. It is a slightly setback directional board with blunted tip/tail and sidecuts like the Proto. You can think of it as a mix between an all-mountain board and a stiff park board. With that being said, you may like the Heritage if you are looking for something to ride mostly in the powder and big mountain areas!


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## ghuss37 (Dec 16, 2011)

Good news. I found out there is a demo day at Loveland on Saturday. I am going to do that as Never Summer and K2 will be there. I am leaning towards the Cobra but I do want to look at the Heritage and SL. I figure I will also check out the K2 Ultra Dream. I have heard great things about that and it looks like it has better edge hold on hard pack than NS and is also amazing in powder. 

Anyone have any thoughts on the ultra dream?

I would consider selling my NS Evo and going with the SL if I just grab one board, but if I keep the Evo, I'm likely to get the Cobra/Heritage/Ultra Dream.


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## lonerider (Apr 10, 2009)

ghuss37 said:


> Good news. I found out there is a demo day at Loveland on Saturday. I am going to do that as Never Summer and K2 will be there. I am leaning towards the Cobra but I do want to look at the Heritage and SL. I figure I will also check out the K2 Ultra Dream. I have heard great things about that and it looks like it has better edge hold on hard pack than NS and is also amazing in powder.
> 
> Anyone have any thoughts on the ultra dream?
> 
> I would consider selling my NS Evo and going with the SL if I just grab one board, but if I keep the Evo, I'm likely to get the Cobra/Heritage/Ultra Dream.


Sounds perfect for you. I agree the Evo is too much like the SL (I plan on getting rid of my 2009 SL now that I have a 2012 Proto and am considering a getting Heritage/Premier sometime in the future)

Let us know what you think! I have ridden the Evo, SL, Proto and Summit - but haven't gotten a chance to try out the Cobra, Heritage, or Premier.


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## jdang307 (Feb 6, 2011)

lonerider said:


> That's odd... because this is what I got back from Never Summer in an email


Yeah I know what they say, and it may be true because of the carbonium. But the dampening is on another level above the Proto from everything that is written.

Even BA called it the SL/Legacy on crack.

Dampening and Flex are both 5, on both SL/Legacy and Cobra/X. That's why I make that comparison.

I see the Proto as a souped up Evo. Same dampening, same shape, both twins etc.


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## lonerider (Apr 10, 2009)

jdang307 said:


> Yeah I know what they say, and it may be true because of the carbonium. But the dampening is on another level above the Proto from everything that is written.
> 
> Even BA called it the SL/Legacy on crack.
> 
> ...


That's what it felt like to me when I rode both the Proto and Evo at the demo day.

BA did say that... but he has also said the follow regarding the Cobra.


> Think of it as a directional Proto honestly I’d recommend buying something else if you’re going to freeride or slash pow.


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## jdang307 (Feb 6, 2011)

I.e, a lot of boards in the NS lineup are pretty close to each other :laugh:

Evo>Proto>SL>Cobra>Heritage.

Just an evolution of each board. Ideally you wouldn't have any two boards unless there were at least two in between.

Just go to a different brand ... like a Westmark and a Cobra  :laugh:


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## BigmountainVMD (Oct 9, 2011)

It's the OPs SECOND SEASON. I can't see too many people needing a quiver in their second season. He's gonna end up like all these kids buying an aggressive T. Rice Pro as their first board. You can ride it, sure, but you will have more fun with something a bit softer like the SL.

He wanted a stiffer version of the Evo that can handle crud/speed better. The SL is a directional twin (or twin with setback stance), the Cobra is directional... too unlike the Evo.

Kid has a Toyota Tercel and wants to upgrade... do you tell him a Subaru WRX or a Porsche Carerra? Heritage is too stiff. If you are hitting 40 ft booters switch, then get the Heritage.

Sell the Evo, get the SL. You will be happy. I fell like one of the biggest of new boarder issues is getting a "stiff" board that is really more stiff than they actually need.


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## lonerider (Apr 10, 2009)

BigmountainVMD said:


> He's gonna end up like all these kids buying an aggressive T. Rice Pro as their first board. You can ride it, sure, but you will have more fun with something a bit softer like the SL.
> 
> He wanted a stiffer version of the Evo that can handle crud/speed better. The SL is a directional twin (or twin with setback stance), the Cobra is directional... too unlike the Evo.
> 
> ...


Hey wait don't YOU have a TRice Pro along with a Proto? What were you saying about kids buying a TRice Pro?  

Actually, I agree that an SL would be the best single board option (and I don't disagree there is no need to get multiple boards)... but if he is definitely going to keep the Evo (for some reason like not everyone accepts my "wisdom" as fact )... then I would suggest getting something a bigger difference from the SL (I say this from experience having owned a 2004(?) Evo, 2009 SL, and 2012 Proto). Actually if you read the OP's last post... he was already leaning towards the SL-only option (he's going to demo the boards this weekend).

I also agree that some boards are too stiff for novice riders to handle... but modern snowboards today are all pretty soft overall (there are exceptions... those are basically always the most expensive freeride board each company makes). Even the Heritage is only a 5.5 out of 10 on Never Summer's scale. I've tried out a lot of boards over the years and trust me... there are some STIFF boards out there that you have never tried from companies you likely have never heard of. 

I've never ridden the Heritage... but I HAVE hit a 40 ft booter switch*. Heritage is probably overkill for that as well, but OP was looking for freeriding/powder, not park/jumps - and the added dampening and stiffness would be good for that.

* - video is just me hitting a 40 foot kicker with a straight air... my cab 180s and backside 360s were super sketchy looking and not worthy of posting on the web.


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## ghuss37 (Dec 16, 2011)

Whether I sell my Evo or not will depend on how much I like the stiffer boards like the Heritage and Cobra when I demo. If I like those boards a lot, I will probably keep the Evo for when I get brave enough to start trying to do jumps/rails. If I'm not crazy about the Heritage/Cobra then I may sell the Evo and get the SL for a better overall single board. Also depends on how much I can get for my Evo. It is a longer Evo (157 or 158) so I'm not sure how in demand it will be.

Any recommendations on sizes for demoing? I'm 5'10.5". 158 seems like a good size but I'm open to suggestions.


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## ghuss37 (Dec 16, 2011)

lonerider said:


> Hey wait don't YOU have a TRice Pro along with a Proto? What were you saying about kids buying a TRice Pro?
> 
> Actually, I agree that an SL would be the best single board option (and I don't disagree there is no need to get multiple boards)... but if he is definitely going to keep the Evo (for some reason like not everyone accepts my "wisdom" as fact )... then I would suggest getting something a bigger difference from the SL (I say this from experience having owned a 2004(?) Evo, 2009 SL, and 2012 Proto). Actually if you read the OP's last post... he was already leaning towards the SL-only option (he's going to demo the boards this weekend).
> 
> ...


Nice video man. I hope to someday be able to do some jumps. I am not sure how to get started doing that stuff without killing myself or breaking my arms.


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## lonerider (Apr 10, 2009)

ghuss37 said:


> Whether I sell my Evo or not will depend on how much I like the stiffer boards like the Heritage and Cobra when I demo. If I like those boards a lot, I will probably keep the Evo for when I get brave enough to start trying to do jumps/rails. If I'm not crazy about the Heritage/Cobra then I may sell the Evo and get the SL for a better overall single board. Also depends on how much I can get for my Evo. It is a longer Evo (157 or 158) so I'm not sure how in demand it will be.
> 
> Any recommendations on sizes for demoing? I'm 5'10.5". 158 seems like a good size but I'm open to suggestions.


how much do you weigh?


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## Cycle4Fun (Feb 22, 2012)

ghuss37 said:


> Any recommendations on sizes for demoing? I'm 5'10.5". 158 seems like a good size but I'm open to suggestions.


Weight is what's important. Not height. I'm riding a 158 SL at 160 lbs naked.


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## ghuss37 (Dec 16, 2011)

Weight fluctuates from 170-185 but never more than 185.


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## lonerider (Apr 10, 2009)

ghuss37 said:


> Weight fluctuates from 170-185 but never more than 185.


I'm 5'9" 150 lbs, and I rode an Evo 153(?), Proto 154, and SL 155. For you I would suggest stuff in the 158-161 range, since you are a little less advanced, I would try with the lower end of the range first.


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## BigmountainVMD (Oct 9, 2011)

ghuss37 said:


> The evo has a ton of pop and someday I'd like to get into the rails/jumps but not yet.


He said he would like to get into rails/jumps someday... Thus I am not recommending a freeride board, and am leaning to the softer side of all-mountain boards --> the SL.



lonerider said:


> Hey wait don't YOU have a TRice Pro along with a Proto? What were you saying about kids buying a TRice Pro?


Yes, I bought a T. Rice just before my 8th season... not my second. And yes, I bought a Proto... when I realized that the T. Rice was TOO STIFF to dick around with the way I wanted to. It's awesome for bombing steeps and hitting big jumps, but IMO, I think it's a bit too stiff/long to be the all mountain play-thing I was looking for (in retrospect, the TRS would have been closer to what I was looking for). And once I had the Proto, I realized I had only a small increase in chatter at high speeds, relative to a huge increase in comfort for presses, boxes and all around playfulness. 

I've seen numerous posts on this forum from kids like, "This is my second season, I'm tired of renting gear, I'm looking at the Lib T. Rice pro." I think these kids are being misled and can have much more fun on something a bit more playful, ESPECIALLY if they ever intend on hopping into the park. 

If the OP was like "Its my 4th season, I can carve clean lines but my board chatters too much" I would say hop on the Heritage, Premier or even the T. Rice because I happen to think it is an amazing carving machine, but not for someone in their second season.



lonerider said:


> Actually, I agree that an SL would be the best single board option (and I don't disagree there is no need to get multiple boards)... but if he is definitely going to keep the Evo (for some reason like not everyone accepts my "wisdom" as fact )... then I would suggest getting something a bigger difference from the SL (I say this from experience having owned a 2004(?) Evo, 2009 SL, and 2012 Proto). Actually if you read the OP's last post... he was already leaning towards the SL-only option (he's going to demo the boards this weekend).
> 
> I also agree that some boards are too stiff for novice riders to handle...


Yes and yes. It's a good idea to demo for sure.


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## lonerider (Apr 10, 2009)

BigmountainVMD said:


> He said he would like to get into rails/jumps someday... Thus I am not recommending a freeride board, and am leaning to the softer side of all-mountain boards --> the SL.


I think we basically are on the same page. I agree that if he was only going to have one board - SL would give him the most options to try out different riding styles. However, as I said... if he is stubborn on a two board setup ... then the SL is too close to the Evo.



BigmountainVMD said:


> Yes, I bought a T. Rice just before my 8th season... not my second. And yes, I bought a Proto... when I realized that the T. Rice was TOO STIFF to dick around with the way I wanted to. It's awesome for bombing steeps and hitting big jumps, but IMO, I think it's a bit too stiff/long to be the all mountain play-thing I was looking for (in retrospect, the TRS would have been closer to what I was looking for). And once I had the Proto, I realized I had only a small increase in chatter at high speeds, relative to a huge increase in comfort for presses, boxes and all around playfulness.
> 
> I've seen numerous posts on this forum from kids like, "This is my second season, I'm tired of renting gear, I'm looking at the Lib T. Rice pro." I think these kids are being misled and can have much more fun on something a bit more playful, ESPECIALLY if they ever intend on hopping into the park.
> 
> ...


I also agree here. Travis Rice is a 175 lbs rampaging bull of a professional athlete - what works for him is not going to work for everyone else. On the flipside, though I see kids riding Burton Nug style boards with DULLED edges thinking that they are going to be able to Jib like Jeremy Jones. In my experience/opinion, if you got a true freeride board, than at the very least they would learn how to turn/carve properly. It might be a little harder to do a nosepress or butter, but if you learn the correct technique you could still do it. With a stupid soft board... you can fake a lot of tricks with GAPER-style... which is fine until you take it to a real street-style rail or 30 ft kicker... and then you are going to wreck yourself.


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## BigmountainVMD (Oct 9, 2011)

I agree with you totally. Only reason I learned to carve properly is because my second board purchase in my 4th season was an Arbor A-frame... because I thought that's what I needed... very unforgiving, but forced me to have proper technique.


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## lonerider (Apr 10, 2009)

BigmountainVMD said:


> I agree with you totally. Only reason I learned to carve properly is because my second board purchase in my 4th season was an Arbor A-frame... because I thought that's what I needed... very unforgiving, but forced me to have proper technique.


Those older A-frames were solid... in all meanings of the word.


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## ghuss37 (Dec 16, 2011)

Yeah I definitely need to get someone to watch me and comment on my technique. Any of you guys ride in Colorado?

Can't wait for Saturday. Looks like some snow is coming to the Rockies Sat/Sun so should be good for demoing these boards!


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## BigmountainVMD (Oct 9, 2011)

lonerider said:


> Those older A-frames were solid... in all meanings of the word.


Yeah I don't know if I should sell it or make a bench out of it. The wood grain would make for a damn beautiful bench!


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## ghuss37 (Dec 16, 2011)

Ok, so I went to Loveland for demo day. We got probably 2-4 inches of snow. Conditions were OK, a little icy in spots and the skiers made some killer moguls that were hard to see when it was white-out conditions.

I demoed:

Heritage 158
I don't know what to say about the Heritage. I liked it, I felt like I had more control. However, it was the first board I tried and wish I could have tried it again at the end, but I ran out of time.

Ultra Dream 158
My first run with the ultra dream was great. I didn't catch any edges and it felt really good. I took a break for lunch and picked it back up and was having some trouble controlling it. Turning was definitely different than with a never summer. I could see this one shining on the powder.

Cobra 161
My favorite board of the day. I felt like I had so much control and could carve over the ice without flinching. The board seemed heavy, but I really liked it. 

SL 155
The SL was smaller than I wanted, but the only size that was available. It felt a lot like my Evo with a little more stability. I did like this one, but definitely feels too similar to my Evo.

On Sunday I went to Breck and played with my Evo. Man, I love that thing...I love the pop it has and how easy it is to turn. I did notice the edge hold on it seems a little bad over icy areas. The board is so playful that I am not sure if I want to get rid of it.

All in all...I have no idea what I'm going to do...haha


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## lonerider (Apr 10, 2009)

ghuss37 said:


> Ok, so I went to Loveland for demo day. We got probably 2-4 inches of snow. Conditions were OK, a little icy in spots and the skiers made some killer moguls that were hard to see when it was white-out conditions.
> 
> I demoed:
> 
> ...


Lol... well now you have about as much information as you can possible get for making a decision (nothing beats first-hand experience). The reality is that there are a LOT OF BOARDS THAT ARE FUN TO RIDE... so it really is just about picking a board (or seven ) that will match you personal preferences.

Good luck!


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## ghuss37 (Dec 16, 2011)

Yeah man, that was pretty much my realization. I am happy with all the boards. I have to make a choice by Nov 25 because that's when my $100 off voucher expires. I really don't think I can go wrong between the Cobra, Heritage, and Ultra Dream.


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## lonerider (Apr 10, 2009)

ghuss37 said:


> Yeah man, that was pretty much my realization. I am happy with all the boards. I have to make a choice by Nov 25 because that's when my $100 off voucher expires. I really don't think I can go wrong between the Cobra, Heritage, and Ultra Dream.


I think I read in a thread here that the Ultra Dream is a powder board that can do freeriding. The Cobra is also sort of a playful freeride board that is shaped specifically for powder. The Heritage is a twin shape (good for switch riding) and has a lot more dampening (which is good for when the snow is crappy/choppy) than the other two boards.

So one way to help decide is ask yourself where/when are you going to be using this new board? Personally, I typically ride park when the snow conditions are crappy as the groomed/raked snow there is actually decent... so while I was really eyeing the Heritage myself... MAYBE drop it off the list.


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## ghuss37 (Dec 16, 2011)

lonerider said:


> I think I read in a thread here that the Ultra Dream is a powder board that can do freeriding. The Cobra is also sort of a playful freeride board that is shaped specifically for powder. The Heritage is a twin shape (good for switch riding) and has a lot more dampening (which is good for when the snow is crappy/choppy) than the other two boards.
> 
> So one way to help decide is ask yourself where/when are you going to be using this new board? Personally, I typically ride park when the snow conditions are crappy as the groomed/raked snow there is actually decent... so while I was really eyeing the Heritage myself... MAYBE drop it off the list.


I'm eyeing another board...the YES Pick your line. Though, I am not sure if they have it at the board shop I went to so maybe it isn't an option.

I agree, I'm probably leaning towards the Cobra right now. It is pretty sick. I think the Ultra Dream is sick too, but it is probably going to throw me off with the different board style.


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## ghuss37 (Dec 16, 2011)

Got the Cobra 158 today. I might go give it a ride on Sunday, but the conditions in Colorado are really crappy machine-made snow. I hope we get some snow in December...


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