# Toe-side carving issues



## Efilnikufesin

DRA6N said:


> I have been snowboarding a few seasons and then I stopped for about 3 years (due to geographical location and work) Finally I am stationed in korea for a while and starting to get back into it full speed...
> 
> well Ive been pretty decent at carving with my heel-side (im regular footed) and even at higher speeds.. But every time I try to switch over onto my toe-side edge I always get wobbly and end up eating it. I dont have much toe hangover (at least I dont think I do) I wear a size 11.5 boot and Im on a wide.. What am I missing? Just not dipping my knees into the mountain enough? It seems I get too scared when i try the toe portions of my S-curves...
> 
> this is killing me as once I get some speed up I always have to do a falling leaf and switch sides to curve back the other direction.. Its clear that I do this a lot as my heel side wax is pretty worn compared to toe side.. I leave the hill with a sharp toe edge too..:icon_scratch:


My first instinct is to say you are riding backseat, and not centering your weight on the board. When riding hardpack, I feel like your front leg should burn a bit, if your back leg feels tired, you are backseating while riding.

Edit: also make sure you have your foot centered on the board with equal toe and heel overhang.


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## DRA6N

Efilnikufesin said:


> My first instinct is to say you are riding backseat, and not centering your weight on the board. When riding hardpack, I feel like your front leg should burn a bit, if your back leg feels tired, you are backseating while riding.
> 
> Edit: also make sure you have your foot centered on the board with equal toe and heel overhang.


 Ive been watching some stuff on youtube and they say to basically apply more weight on the front foot and almost steer with the back like the rudder of a ship.. I am gonna work on this a lot sunday


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## Bayoh

Your front foot's pressure is what will initiate the carve. Backseating takes away your front foot's pressure leading to the squirrely behavior you might be experiencing.

When making the transition from heel to toe, try to focus on keeping your body weight forward more through the turn. What happens often in a heel to toe carve is you naturally want to keep your body upright "up" the hill, but this leads to backseating. By keeping your body weight forward you're actually keeping yourself perpendicular to the hill and keeping even balance over your board.

As you're shifting weight across the board and onto your toe edge, let the pressure of your front foot initiate the carve and allow the sidecut of your board to carry you through the turn.

Oh and don't forget to keep your knees bent and loose.


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## Donutz

My first guess would be that you're trying to rotate your upper body to face downhill. Not a problem when you're on your heelside obviously, but as soon as you go toeside you'd be torquing your upper body around which will tend to turn your board downhill. Fight that for a few feet and I bet you faceplant.


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## havin_a_ball

Overcompensation is a method often used to get over little hitches like this.

Here's a trick that might help

point your front arm in front of you where you want to go. By pointing your arm to your toeside, your body weight will shift enough to force your front toe down, if you are following the other advice above.

This (using your upper body to affect your foot pressure) is very bad technique and once you get the feeling of your toeside transition again you should focus on refining your turns and using proper pressure and weight distribution through your turn cycles.

If you are getting to your toes but the tail rotates too far and you end up catching your heel edge, make sure you are pressuring the back toe edge after the apex of your turn in order to maintain your turn degree.

The opposite issue was addressed above. Also, don't use your front foot as a pivot and swing the tail of your board, initiate your turns with the front of your board as described above. 

Also, going slow and focusing on connecting turns might help.

Good luck!


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## Cane700

Carving seems like a lost art these days.


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## snowklinger

Cane700 said:


> Carving seems like a lost art these days.


its not an art. 

That's like calling the pedaling aspect of BMX exciting.

The OP is just a beginner.


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## Cane700

snowklinger said:


> its not an art.
> 
> That's like calling the pedaling aspect of BMX exciting.
> 
> The OP is just a beginner.


Its not? Because I see few people who know how to do it and I am not talking about linking turns.


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## Cane700

You don't see much of it here in the midwest. Once it a while you see nice thin lines in the snow. Its could be the short crowded runs or the bad snow. Generally out here people are riding very short and flexy twins and Freestyle is the order of business. In the last 10 years or so I've only seen one person with both bindings angled hard forward. Hell, even I run a duck stance these days. Don't get me wrong I'll do pretty much every aspect of snowboarding... but once in a while there is something to be said about just carving perfect high speed turns down a mountain.


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## MeanJoe

Snowolf said:


> Yeah, I love high speed carving when the snow is good. Nothing like fresh corduroy in the morning for some hard carving!. I think you may be onto something about the short crowded runs; pretty hard to open it up safely in that environment. Out here yo see a fair amount of it. I even saw a guy today fruit booting with an alpine carving board. Thing looked like it as at least a 200 Cm and narrow! They dude was getting on it too. Not my style, but he was impressive doing it....props....:thumbsup:


We got a couple guys out here at my local resort with 180+ alpine boards and aggressive forward stances. These guys just kill it and it makes me nostalgic for my early days snowboarding in the late 80s. I'm more mellow now, I enjoy opening it up when conditions and crowds are right but to go full-blown euro-carve style? Nah.


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## t21

carving feels reallly good on a nice sunny groomed day. you can always drag your hand down and wear out your gloves:laugh:


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## DRA6N

Wel I was working on my toe side a lot this past weekend and started to get the hang of it, I find its really hard to keep weight on that forward foot though... my be my stance.

I was doing really well and getting pretty quick.. I lost focus and caught some jagged ice and launched myelf face first into the ice, gashing my cheek open and ended up having to go to the ER the next morning. I still stuck it out and rode the rest of that day... and now Im going wednesday night YAY.


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## DRA6N

Snowolf said:


> Hi!
> 
> Well lets start by clearing up a very common misconception. Actual carving is a different animal than making standard linked turns which are skidded turns (the tail scrapes in a wider arc than the nose and the track in the snow is more of a smear wheres a carve leaves a very thin line in the snow as if done with a knife).
> 
> So, you do fine initiating and maintaining a good heelside turn but are having some issues with the toeside? First, is your main challenge the turn initiation or is it in maintaining the turn once it begins?
> 
> Some general tips for good toeside turn initiation:
> 
> 1) Get your weight up onto your front foot so you have good torsional flex.
> 
> 2) Flex down low anytime you are about to initiate a turn.
> 
> 3) Dip your front shoulder a little bit down toward the nose of your board. This will put your shoulders parallel to the snow and set you up in a good perpendicular position relative to the slope.
> 
> 4) When you drop your front knee down to apply toe pressure onto the toe edge with the front foot, roll the knee in toward your rear foot just a bit. This creates rotational force as well as twist.
> 
> 5) Roll your back knee out toward the tail of your board. This adds more rotational force.
> 
> 6) Position for front shoulder slightly over the toe edge of your board. This also adds rotational force and it also allows you to pressure the toe edge with your front foot more efficiently.
> 
> 7) Make sure you don`t have the "mystery date" That is holding the back hand out in front of you. Get that back hand over the tail of the board behind you.
> 
> Now, once you are beginning to turn, slowly extend your legs to push against the board. This helps set your edge and it increases the efficiency of the board`s sidecut to make for a more powerful, controlled turn. Along with this, slowly shift your body weight toward the rear. At the apex of the turn, you should be centered and at maximum extension.
> 
> For good turn completion, continue your aft shift and begin to slowly flex down low again. This action helps reduce chatter and edge washout at the bottom of the turn.
> 
> One big issue for many people with the toeside turn initiation if a fear of commitment. The rider often feels as if they are leaning down hill. This is a natural apprehension and one that goes away with experience. You learn to trust your board and your own abilities with experience. The biggest inhibitor to good turn initiation is leaning back and hesitation. Leaning back prevents your board from being able to engage the sidecut into the snow and start the turn and hesitation creates a sideslip that then must be checked before turn initiation.
> 
> At your convenience, provide some more details about what you fee and when with regard to executing your toeside turn and we can narrow things down and hopefully get you some drills to work on the help you with this....:thumbsup:


I did a lot of that this past weekend, though I found when transitioning from heel to toe and back it would get 'wobbly' until I leveled out and leaned downhill to add more pressure on the front foot.. I am having a hell of a time keeping enough pressure down and keep squatting down in my turns. :dunno:


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## jml22

Hmmm you could be too rigid on your front foot. You want to be dynamic with the turn, you just need to initiate with the front foot and you only need to be forward enough so your body is perpendicular with the slope.
When i'm starting my turn i'm pretty low but its almost like i'm standing up through the turn then i'm back low again.
Play around with it


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## Efilnikufesin

DRA6N said:


> I did a lot of that this past weekend, though I found when transitioning from heel to toe and back it would get 'wobbly' until I leveled out and leaned downhill to add more pressure on the front foot.. I am having a hell of a time keeping enough pressure down and keep squatting down in my turns. :dunno:


Keep working on it, it will come with feel and time. It all takes practice.


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## ig88

DRA6N said:


> ...... Finally I am stationed in korea for a while and starting to get back into it full speed...


Which resort in Korea do you ride?


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## cc898

I agree! True carving is a lost art!!! 

Try tucking your back knee in twords the center of the board AFTER you have started the turn. This will keep you a bit more centered, and it will pull the sidecut of the board into better contact with the snow. Think of it as "pumping". Also, as was said above, keep the weight balanced, don't get in the backseat at all! You will wash. It will hold.....it just takes faith.


20+ years of riding and I still have a PJ.....yeah...I can carve a bit. Sometimes.


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## Cane700

MeanJoe said:


> We got a couple guys out here at my local resort with 180+ alpine boards and aggressive forward stances. These guys just kill it and it makes me nostalgic for my early days snowboarding in the late 80s. I'm more mellow now, I enjoy opening it up when conditions and crowds are right but to go full-blown euro-carve style? Nah.



LOL. Alpine Euro style carving is so out these days. I didn't even see any of it in Europe. The neo wetsuit on the mountain just doesn't suit my style :laugh:


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## Cane700

DRA6N said:


> I did a lot of that this past weekend, though I found when transitioning from heel to toe and back it would get 'wobbly' until I leveled out and leaned downhill to add more pressure on the front foot.. I am having a hell of a time keeping enough pressure down and keep squatting down in my turns. :dunno:


Can you do toeside stops proficiently? If not, maybe you should spend some time practicing those until you get comfortable with them. Toeside stop is essentially an aggressive toeside turn. Find a gentle slope then progress to something a little steeper. From there you should be able to get more comfortable with toeside turns and you can start linking toe and heelside turns and you'll be on your way to shredding Valahalla.


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## Cane700

Snowolf said:


> Yeah, I love high speed carving when the snow is good. Nothing like fresh corduroy in the morning for some hard carving!. I think you may be onto something about the short crowded runs; pretty hard to open it up safely in that environment. Out here yo see a fair amount of it. I even saw a guy today fruit booting with an alpine carving board. Thing looked like it as at least a 200 Cm and narrow! They dude was getting on it too. Not my style, but he was impressive doing it....props....:thumbsup:


Speak of the Devil and he appears. I went out to the slopes the other day and the first rider I notice has hard boots and a carving board with plate bindings. LOL.


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## DRA6N

So I finally have my toe side carving down pretty damn good. I had to learn to thow my weight and really kick that back foot out there. I also found out my bindings werent setup right. I never realized there as a piece on the bottom of the binding under where your toes are that actually slides out, after moving this I found I had a LOT more toe control than before!

now Im waiting for my RuRoc helmet and some impact shorts and knee pads and gonna start playing on some rails and little jumps! 

thanks for the help guys!:yahoo:


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## Ichabod

DRA6N said:


> So I finally have my toe side carving down pretty damn good. I had to learn to thow my weight and *really kick that back foot out there*. I also found out my bindings werent setup right. I never realized there as a piece on the bottom of the binding under where your toes are that actually slides out, after moving this I found I had a LOT more toe control than before!
> 
> now Im waiting for my RuRoc helmet and some impact shorts and knee pads and gonna start playing on some rails and little jumps!
> 
> thanks for the help guys!:yahoo:


So I'm trying to work out if I'm developing a good habit or a bad one with my toeside turns.

I'm a beginner, second season, 49 years old, slow learner , blues and some blacks, (I rarely fall - other than on flat ground, my nemesis - which I actually take as a kind of bad sign as I could be pushing myself more?).

Anyway, I've learned a lot from reading here, and I thank you. 

At first I was using too much weight on my back leg, so I did what I read here, and started reaching my front hand down to my front knee, and it improved things immediately.

As of yesterday I felt like I was getting weight forward nicely and then kind of lifting my rear foot and forcing the rear of the board around. It felt much closer to carving, as I was gaining speed coming out of the turn instead of scrubbing off speed, and I found myself almost shooting back up the hill. (I'm sure I wasn't actually lifting the rear of the board but that was the feeling.)

So - does that match with "kicking that rear foot out there", or am I developing a bad habit that I should nip in the bud right now?


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## skunkworks_

If the first instinct for a beginner is to put too much weight on the rear leg, then the second instinct is to swing the board around with their rear leg to transfer edges. This is known as a pivot turn: you put weight on your front foot and swing your rear leg like a windshield wiper, and the board pivots on your front foot. If you add a sideslip in between each pivot, you're doing pivot slips.

These are quick maneuvers that allows you to change directions quickly, and as such, are appropriate for navigating snow conditions where there's limited space and time for you to maneuver. This often occurs on moguls, or if you're on a slope that's above your level.

However, it's not graceful or economical technique. You're essentially forcing the board to move the way you want it to with your leg strength (and possibly by swinging your arms, a big no-no). The general idea with snowboarding is to use the board's edge and the sidecut to do the bulk of the work in a turn. If you're constantly throwing the board around with pivot turns, you are tiring yourself out unnecessarily.

It's really important as a beginner to learn how to turn properly, and the way to turn properly at first is the skidded turn. Skidded turns are initiated by your front foot. Let's say you're riding along on your heel edge, which means your weight is balanced on both heels. To transfer to your toe edge, you put more pressure on your front foot's toe while keeping your back foot's weight on the heel. The two opposing forces cancel each other out: your board flattens out, which causes the board to point down the hill and pick up some speed. As this occurs, finish the turn by finally transferring weight on your rear foot from the heel to the toe. Now your weight is only on your toes, which causes the board to go on the toe edge, which causes it to turn in a new direction.

I really recommend taking a look at Snowolf's and Snow Professor's videos on garland turns. They are the perfect drill for learning how to use your front foot to initiate turns, and you'll have a much more natural feel for how your weight distribution on your front foot will change the direction of the board.


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