# Burton Drops Jeremy Jones?



## Maierapril

For as long as I can remember, Jeremy Jones and Burton went hand in hand.

I was a bit shocked when I saw this video considering I have heard nothing about Burton ending their sponsorship with someone like Jeremy Jones.


http://youtu.be/72JuF42Kx3c


Does anyone have more info on why Burton decided to end their relationship with him?


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## lab49232

Because Burton is trying to redo their entire company to deal with faltering sales.


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## linvillegorge

I want to say that this actually happened a little while ago, like a couple months ago. Never heard any details or hints as to why. Maybe BA might know?


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## snowklinger

BA wrote several articles in the last few months about the shakeup of riders and brands

IMO the industry is streamlining and waking up from its 25 year honeymoon. Guys like myself who are around 40 represent alot of it as the sport matures into something that is not just young-punk driven. Now its old punk. 

Skiing has been through more than 2 generations so its industry relies less on hype and things that appeal to young people.

Sliding fast down the hill appeals to young people, you don't have to make hippie gangster gear to get people out there.

Some things in snowboarding are useless and they will be culled like weak plants. (I'm not calling JJ weak, I'm just referring to the SHAKEUP.)

Business sense is going to begin to dominate.

Someone in Tennessee will always try to reinvent the rotational binding for BA fodder.


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## deagol

I wonder if the fact that he also has Jones snowboards might come into play


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## f00bar

snowklinger said:


> BA wrote several articles in the last few months about the shakeup of riders.
> 
> IMO the industry is streamlining and waking up from its 20 year honeymoon. Guys like myself who are around 40 represent alot of it as the sport matures into something that is not just young-punk driven. Now its old punk.
> 
> Skiing has been through more than 2 generations so its industry relies less on hype and things that appeal to young people.
> 
> Sliding fast down the hill appeals to young people, you don't have to make hippie gangster gear to get people out there.
> 
> Some things in snowboarding are useless and they will be culled like weak plants. (I'm not calling JJ weak, I'm just referring to the SHAKEUP.)


But isn't Jeremy Jones the hero of every 40 year old? I would think you would want to keep around the demographic that actually has money to spend on over priced outerwear and equipment. Dumping Sean White would seem to make more sense.


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## lab49232

snowklinger said:


> BA wrote several articles in the last few months about the shakeup of riders.
> 
> IMO the industry is streamlining and waking up from its 25 year honeymoon. Guys like myself who are around 40 represent alot of it as the sport matures into something that is not just young-punk driven. Now its old punk.
> 
> Skiing has been through more than 2 generations so its industry relies less on hype and things that appeal to young people.
> 
> Sliding fast down the hill appeals to young people, you don't have to make hippie gangster gear to get people out there.
> 
> Some things in snowboarding are useless and they will be culled like weak plants. (I'm not calling JJ weak, I'm just referring to the SHAKEUP.)


This goes much deeper than strictly shaking up riders. Burton is in complete revamp mode and have been for a while. Every company is for the most part with the industry going the way it has. Lets not forget they axed half their company the other year. Burton is also "changing" to a summer company as well by rebranding their soft goods line and trying to pretend like it's brand new (it's not, it just has the words "Durable Goods" attached to the end of the Burton name now).

Muller also recently left Burton to ride for Gnu and took a substantial pay cut for it. (well I guess I can't be sure he "left" but the rumor is that he approached Gnu and told them he didn't care that he was getting paid less. Haven't talked to anybody directly involved in the transition to confirm that's exactly correct)


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## f00bar

I actually didn't even realize they were a sponsor. Honestly all I think of when I see him is his brand, oneil, and cliff bars.


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## snowklinger

dont forget there are 2 jjs


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## f00bar

snowklinger said:


> dont forget there are 2 jjs


No there aren't. I live in Highlander world.


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## linvillegorge

Wrong Jeremy Jones y'all. Talking about park Jeremy, not big mountain Jeremy.


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## francium

Haha I was about to say wtf are you going on about big mountain JJ isn't sponsored by burton.


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## deagol

linvillegorge said:


> Wrong Jeremy Jones y'all. Talking about park Jeremy, not big mountain Jeremy.


OK, that makes sense but is confusing at the same time...
:facepalm1:


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## f00bar

Actually explains a lot. They kept watching his movies and saying "Get rid of him, he isnt even wearing our stuff!"


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## snowklinger

also i wasn't criticizing burton.

Just reminding people that the writing is on the wall for these things, also yea this is pretty old news.


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## madmax

snowklinger said:


> also i wasn't criticizing burton.
> 
> Just reminding people that the writing is on the wall for these things, also yea this is pretty old news.


They dropped John Jackson as well. He's been picked up by Signal and Under Armor so far. They're just rotating to a younger cast. As long as these guys can keep boarding I think it's good for them to ride for smaller companies and bring their prestige to these smaller brands that are doing really good things.


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## quebecrider

anyone knows why seb tots got dropped by ride?


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## BurtonAvenger

He's been off since last year just after this time. 500,000 is a huge contract to renew.


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## quebecrider

BurtonAvenger said:


> He's been off since last year just after this time. 500,000 is a huge contract to renew.


talking about toots or jj


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## BurtonAvenger

quebecrider said:


> anyone knows why seb tots got dropped by ride?


I was talking about JJ. Seb got dropped because Tedore is revamping Ride and he doesn't fit. Hironaka is gone and I imagine a slew of other "pros" are gone as well. Ride did just sign Dillon Ojo though.


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## quebecrider

yeah they're not partner of the ride shakedown anymore. who do you think will sign toots?


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## Maierapril

I can understand that times are changing, but to drop someone that's been so influential completely. 

Hell, he was part of the original Forum pro team...


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## lab49232

Maierapril said:


> I can understand that times are changing, but to drop someone that's been so influential completely.
> 
> Hell, he was part of the original Forum pro team...


And they killed Forum a year ago....


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## BurtonAvenger

It's a sales game. Tell me a pro that sells a 100,000 units still? Hint, there isn't one.


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## Maierapril

lab49232 said:


> And they killed Forum a year ago....





dude....who doesn't know that?


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## lab49232

Maierapril said:


> dude....who doesn't know that?


That's my point, you're saying you're suprised they ended him partially because he was part of the Forum team. Well if they can kill the entire Forum brand why would this shock you?

Frankly it amazes me brands still have more than one or two team riders, they simply don't provide the brand value they use to.


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## BurtonAvenger

lab49232 said:


> That's my point, you're saying you're suprised they ended him partially because he was part of the Forum team. Well if they can kill the entire Forum brand why would this shock you?
> 
> Frankly it amazes me brands still have more than one or two team riders, they simply don't provide the brand value they use to.


Bingo. We're also in an era with the most disposable talent I've ever seen. Every kid thinks they should be sponsored and realistically there's a slew of kids that are interchangeable. Self marketing is the only differentiation.


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## SGboarder

Maierapril said:


> lab49232 said:
> 
> 
> 
> And they killed Forum a year ago....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> dude....who doesn't know that?
Click to expand...

Seems to me that Burton *saved* Forum. At least for a few extra years until they could not afford to any longer...


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## Nivek

Snowboard brand don't make enough money to justify funding a lot a riders. If you want to have a large budget and make money, ride for a non-snowboard specific brand or someone with summer money.


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## Nivek

quebecrider said:


> yeah they're not partner of the ride shakedown anymore. who do you think will sign toots?


Probably no one. He's not relevant. That's part of the reason they dropped him. He hasn't produced anything in like 3 years. I asked Tedore about that earlier in the year.


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## lab49232

SGboarder said:


> Seems to me that Burton *saved* Forum. At least for a few extra years until they could not afford to any longer...


By killed I don't mean ran into the ground, I simply meant ended, they did save them initially. Although by producing 8 thousand models between both their Burton and Forum brand they did essentially run Forum out of business. There's about 15 boards made for every 1 person who snowboards now a days and people wonder why brands suffer. And yet other people want to come in to the market and add more models with tiger and bamboo graphics, yippie! Maybe he can pay a bunch of riders worthless money so they can keep getting paid too! 

Seriously the group here are about as involved as anybody in the world in the snowboarding market and I'm willing to bet even you guys would notice at most 5 pro riders if they walked past you and yet we're surprised companies don't want to continue to pay hundreds of thousands of dollars to rider's just because they know how to snowboard?


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## jliu

Nivek said:


> Probably no one. He's not relevant. That's part of the reason they dropped him. He hasn't produced anything in like 3 years. I asked Tedore about that earlier in the year.


Just curious as to why you think he's not relevant? I see other riders doing much less still having sponsors...Seppe, Roope, Chas (though he hasn't had a board sponsor for a while), Nicholls etc.


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## andrewdod

lab49232 said:


> By killed I don't mean ran into the ground, I simply meant ended, they did save them initially. Although by producing 8 thousand models between both their Burton and Forum brand they did essentially run Forum out of business. There's about 15 boards made for every 1 person who snowboards now a days and people wonder why brands suffer. And yet other people want to come in to the market and add more models with tiger and bamboo graphics, yippie! Maybe he can pay a bunch of riders worthless money so they can keep getting paid too!
> 
> Seriously the group here are about as involved as anybody in the world in the snowboarding market and I'm willing to bet even you guys would notice at most 5 pro riders if they walked past you and yet we're surprised companies don't want to continue to pay hundreds of thousands of dollars to rider's just because they know how to snowboard?



This is no joke, I know for a fact ive been around some pros they've advertised them on the mountain, but no one ever bothers them... Its just like oh yeah, so and so is here... Fuck Jake Burton was at Loon last year and no one even knew who the hell he was.


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## Guest

I notice more and more people around the industry that are starting to hate burton because of what they stand for now. They stand for everything that is wrong in the system. Also they support Shaun White which is probably the worst example of a professional snowboarder should stand for. That guy gets high on his own existence and I have seen him change with the era.

Big company prays on the weak. When I first started boarding in 1990, Burton stood for the rider and the industry as a group that works together. It is the total opposite now. They roll into these smaller companies and bring their big lawyers and pray on the weak and less funded companies.

They put Special Blend out of business because their clothes and coats were competing with their product too much.

I personally now refuse to buy ANYTHING burton. That used to be a board per season and bindings and clothes, jackets and hats. Burton turned Walmart on an industry that was totally against that philosophy and the snowboarding community lost that original theme when everything went main stream.

It used to be 2 snowboarders on the whole mountain, now its everyone and a lot for the wrong reason. Looks, what you ride, and shooting down people because they don't do the same as others. Back in the day everyone had their own style and flare and go to trick and you would uplift one another no matter what.

BuckFurton............just had these stickers made up a week ago.........


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## lab49232

golfer1659 said:


> Also they support Shaun White which is probably the worst example of a professional snowboarder should stand for. That guy gets high on his own existence and I have seen him change with the era.


Seriously? White brought snowboarding to the mainstream, has done more for the sport than you or anybody else will and I guarantee cares more about it than you could dream. 



golfer1659 said:


> They put Special Blend out of business because their clothes and coats were competing with their product too much.


Burton has too much product period. That's true, too many styles of boards etc. But that's not why Special Blend went out of business. Sorry. 



golfer1659 said:


> It used to be 2 snowboarders on the whole mountain, now its everyone and a lot for the wrong reason. Looks, what you ride, and shooting down people because they don't do the same as others. Back in the day everyone had their own style and flare and go to trick and you would uplift one another no matter what.


There's a right reason to be snowboarding? And you get to decide it? More than two snowboarders on the mountain is the only reason you have had the opportunity to snowboard, to ride new gear, and to enjoy this sport. Snowboarding needs more snowboarders period. Sure it would be nice if nobody cared what the gear looked like but if they want to so be it.



golfer1659 said:


> BuckFurton............just had these stickers made up a week ago.........


Very original, did you make that up all on your own or, ya know, did you take it from Smokin? 

Look not arguing for Burton but hate posts just to hate and filled with misinformation make me angry no matter how well meant they are or how much I want to agree with the initial premise.


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## alchemy

golfer1659 said:


> I notice more and more people around the industry that are starting to hate burton because of what they stand for now. They stand for everything that is wrong in the system. Also they support Shaun White which is probably the worst example of a professional snowboarder should stand for. That guy gets high on his own existence and I have seen him change with the era.
> 
> Big company prays on the weak. When I first started boarding in 1990, Burton stood for the rider and the industry as a group that works together. It is the total opposite now. They roll into these smaller companies and bring their big lawyers and pray on the weak and less funded companies.
> 
> They put Special Blend out of business because their clothes and coats were competing with their product too much.
> 
> I personally now refuse to buy ANYTHING burton. That used to be a board per season and bindings and clothes, jackets and hats. Burton turned Walmart on an industry that was totally against that philosophy and the snowboarding community lost that original theme when everything went main stream.
> 
> It used to be 2 snowboarders on the whole mountain, now its everyone and a lot for the wrong reason. Looks, what you ride, and shooting down people because they don't do the same as others. Back in the day everyone had their own style and flare and go to trick and you would uplift one another no matter what.
> 
> BuckFurton............just had these stickers made up a week ago.........


you're so coar.









also, it's "prey." unless you mean that Burton calls on a Higher Power to put smaller brands out of business.

SB was shut down because it was no longer profitable, and nowhere near as relevant as they had been a few years earlier. why would Burton be upset about people buying jackets labeled "special blend" over ones labeled "burton" (they weren't), when they were made in the same factories, probably designed by the same people, and the money went to the same place?


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## Guest

lab49232 said:


> Seriously? White brought snowboarding to the mainstream, has done more for the sport than you or anybody else will and I guarantee cares more about it than you could dream.
> 
> 
> Burton has too much product period. That's true, too many styles of boards etc. But that's not why Special Blend went out of business. Sorry.
> 
> 
> 
> There's a right reason to be snowboarding? And you get to decide it? More than two snowboarders on the mountain is the only reason you have had the opportunity to snowboard, to ride new gear, and to enjoy this sport. Snowboarding needs more snowboarders period. Sure it would be nice if nobody cared what the gear looked like but if they want to so be it.
> 
> 
> 
> Very original, did you make that up all on your own or, ya know, did you take it from Smokin?
> 
> Look not arguing for Burton but hate posts just to hate and filled with misinformation make me angry no matter how well meant they are or how much I want to agree with the initial premise.





Obviously you took this personal since you are probably one of those "mainstreamers" I speak of. 

First off Smokins is BuckFerton which is their board. Rode their superpark for a few years. I was going to rock out with the FuckBurton sticker but me and my friends decided against having a vulgar word on the board. But good try to attack me.

The reason why I use the example of 2 snowboarders on the mountain was when there was nothing to be judged on. You just shred with your friends and not have to think twice. I never said that's where the sport needs to be but it lost its purity.

Shaun White is the biggest tool in the industry and the most hated snowboarder on the face of the earth. He has fucked over many friends in the industry and never tried to uplift others. Once again too mainstream of a rider. Why do you think endless pros hate him. 

Stop being a fan boy............no misinformation, just facts that you don't want to admit to because your insecurities are showing in your response. Its ok though.


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## alchemy

also, they signed Shaun to a 10 year contract in 2008, when he was more relevant, winning contests (not just entering one per year to make an appearance), and in general being an awesome spokesperson for snowboarding. too bad shaun seems to have changed a bit in the six years since.


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## Guest

The fanboys continue to roll out...........Burton Fanboys unite...........


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## jliu

golfer1659 said:


> I notice more and more people around the industry that are starting to hate burton because of what they stand for now. They stand for everything that is wrong in the system. Also they support Shaun White which is probably the worst example of a professional snowboarder should stand for. That guy gets high on his own existence and I have seen him change with the era.
> 
> Big company prays on the weak. When I first started boarding in 1990, Burton stood for the rider and the industry as a group that works together. It is the total opposite now. They roll into these smaller companies and bring their big lawyers and pray on the weak and less funded companies.
> 
> They put Special Blend out of business because their clothes and coats were competing with their product too much.
> 
> I personally now refuse to buy ANYTHING burton. That used to be a board per season and bindings and clothes, jackets and hats. Burton turned Walmart on an industry that was totally against that philosophy and the snowboarding community lost that original theme when everything went main stream.
> 
> It used to be 2 snowboarders on the whole mountain, now its everyone and a lot for the wrong reason. Looks, what you ride, and shooting down people because they don't do the same as others. Back in the day everyone had their own style and flare and go to trick and you would uplift one another no matter what.
> 
> BuckFurton............just had these stickers made up a week ago.........


Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and i don't disagree with some of what you've said...but some is based on assumption and emotion. 

- they've supported White since he was a grom...he's grown through their system. They didn't just snatch him up when he became big. So you're saying they should drop him? Okay...say they do. Some other company picks him up...and now they instantaneously become 'everything thats wrong with snowboarding' too? I'm not a backer or fan of White...just an observer...everyone has their side of the story too. 
- as for closing SB...when they purchased Forum...it was a package deal...forum/sb/fs. They kept them around for a bit...but then financially it was not sustainable (too many redundant products)...so they streamlined. What would you do instead? They interviewed Dave Downing about this...and they really tried to save Forum...rather than have some holding co. or ski brand or whatever buy them. The execution of it may not have been handled well...but companies do make mistakes and it was when the economy went to crap...so drastic measures were taken (which many other companies outside of sb did as well). And i know Jake was away from Burton for a while...not sure if this was the time..
- you hate burton for becoming so commercialized...what abt other sb brands...ride and k2 are found in big box department stores too. Again not saying i like that...but you need to be consistent.


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## f00bar

alchemy said:


> you're so coar.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> also, it's "prey." unless you mean that Burton calls on a Higher Power to put smaller brands out of business.
> 
> SB was shut down because it was no longer profitable, and nowhere near as relevant as they had been a few years earlier. why would Burton be upset about people buying jackets labeled "special blend" over ones labeled "burton" (they weren't), when they were made in the same factories, probably designed by the same people, and the money went to the same place?


One could argue that it weakens the Burton brand as a whole. Which is something that companies value. They'd rather make the same money selling Burton things if it helps leverage the sale of other Burton product lines. Don't get me wrong, it was a pretty crazy post in my mind, but there is some basic marketing logic to it.


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## BurtonAvenger

I was praying to Allah so I could go on a Jibbing Jihad against the imperialist scum. I shall Red Dawn the Burton U.S. Open in Vail this week and expose the yankee scum!


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## F1EA

Holy crap. What is all this crock of highschool marketting shit??

Basically.... this kind of talk makes me WANT to buy Burton. :facepalm3:


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## BurtonAvenger

There's a lot of people talking out of their ass in here that don't know the whole story. I like that, keep it up, lets beat a dead horse. OH NOEZ FORUM IS DEAD!


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## lab49232

golfer1659 said:


> Obviously you took this personal since you are probably one of those "mainstreamers" I speak of.
> 
> First off Smokins is BuckFerton which is their board. Rode their superpark for a few years. I was going to rock out with the FuckBurton sticker but me and my friends decided against having a vulgar word on the board. But good try to attack me.
> 
> The reason why I use the example of 2 snowboarders on the mountain was when there was nothing to be judged on. You just shred with your friends and not have to think twice. I never said that's where the sport needs to be but it lost its purity.
> 
> Shaun White is the biggest tool in the industry and the most hated snowboarder on the face of the earth. He has fucked over many friends in the industry and never tried to uplift others. Once again too mainstream of a rider. Why do you think endless pros hate him.
> 
> Stop being a fan boy............no misinformation, just facts that you don't want to admit to because your insecurities are showing in your response. Its ok though.


No I took offense to people like you who think you're so core and know the sport so well that you spread stupidity across the internet and are dumb enough to actually truly believe that you are right. 

If you followed my posts on here you would know I am about the furthest thing from a "Fan Boy" I have called out Burton for much of what they've done, oversaturating the market being their biggest offense.

As for White being the most hated guy in the industry that's far from the truth. But yes he does have his haters, when you're the best at what you do you attract haters. Look at Lebron James, Peyton Manning, Tiger Woods, etc etc etc. How many pro riders do you know? How many have you spoken to on a regular basis. Oh that answers zero? So how about you stop telling me what they think...

And ya that is from Smokin, how that makes your sticker unique and different from their board I don't know, are you that dense or was there a point there you were making?


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## Lamps

golfer1659 said:


> I notice more and more people around the industry that are starting to hate burton because of what they stand for now. They stand for everything that is wrong in the system. Also they support Shaun White which is probably the worst example of a professional snowboarder should stand for. That guy gets high on his own existence and I have seen him change with the era.
> 
> Big company prays on the weak. When I first started boarding in 1990, Burton stood for the rider and the industry as a group that works together. It is the total opposite now. They roll into these smaller companies and bring their big lawyers and pray on the weak and less funded companies.
> 
> They put Special Blend out of business because their clothes and coats were competing with their product too much.
> 
> I personally now refuse to buy ANYTHING burton. That used to be a board per season and bindings and clothes, jackets and hats. Burton turned Walmart on an industry that was totally against that philosophy and the snowboarding community lost that original theme when everything went main stream.
> 
> It used to be 2 snowboarders on the whole mountain, now its everyone and a lot for the wrong reason. Looks, what you ride, and shooting down people because they don't do the same as others. Back in the day everyone had their own style and flare and go to trick and you would uplift one another no matter what.
> 
> BuckFurton............just had these stickers made up a week ago.........


I like burton a lot. I thnk that products like the restricted line supports dealers. 

They're a privately held fringe sport company with a bit of mainline apparel. 

If you want a company to hate on how about Halliburton, or Philip Morris, or Dow or maybe Raytheon or smith and Wesson


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## linvillegorge

Jeremy Jones is a snowboarding legend, but the reality is that age does matter when it comes to professional athletes. What is he 39? 40? That's one helluva run for a pro athlete.

The bottom line is that it's a business. Businesses don't become successful by running charity cases. If Jeremy Jones is no longer reaching the targeted demographic and driving sales numbers, then it's time to move for Burton to move on. That's just the way it goes.


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## Guest

So basically you are a fanboy of Shaun White is what you are saying....?




lab49232 said:


> No I took offense to people like you who think you're so core and know the sport so well that you spread stupidity across the internet and are dumb enough to actually truly believe that you are right.
> 
> If you followed my posts on here you would know I am about the furthest thing from a "Fan Boy" I have called out Burton for much of what they've done, oversaturating the market being their biggest offense.
> 
> As for White being the most hated guy in the industry that's far from the truth. But yes he does have his haters, when you're the best at what you do you attract haters. Look at Lebron James, Peyton Manning, Tiger Woods, etc etc etc. How many pro riders do you know? How many have you spoken to on a regular basis. Oh that answers zero? So how about you stop telling me what they think...
> 
> And ya that is from Smokin, how that makes your sticker unique and different from their board I don't know, are you that dense or was there a point there you were making?


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## BurtonAvenger

The most core thing in snowboarding? The guy that jockey's a cubicle all week for more than 40 hours then promptly spends all his spare time reading up about snowboarding and all his money on snowboarding. That's pretty fucking core.

And I'll just stick this here: Here to stay: A Jeremy Jones interview - Snowboard Magazine


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## lab49232

golfer1659 said:


> So basically you are a fanboy of Shaun White is what you are saying....?


Nope I'm a fan boy of people not spreading idiocy as fact in a forum of people who know better than you do. Notice that despite there being a ton of people on here who dislike Burton for one reason or another not one person has taken your side...


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## Guest

lab49232 said:


> Nope I'm a fan boy of people not spreading idiocy as fact in a forum of people who know better than you do. Notice that despite there being a ton of people on here who dislike Burton for one reason or another not one person has taken your side...


Actually people have agreed. Sorry that you don't. I will present what I believe since its an open forum and ALOT of Shaun White and burton supporters are in here. I don't mind not being with the majority.


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## linvillegorge

golfer1659 said:


> Actually people have agreed. Sorry that you don't. I will present what I believe since its an open forum and ALOT of Shaun White and burton supporters are in here. I don't mind not being with the majority.


You have to be the most try-hard poster on this site. You come and spew your garbage and try to to act like you know what you're talking about, but to anyone with even the slightest knowledge, you come off as a complete moron.


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## Guest

linvillegorge said:


> You have to be the most try-hard poster on this site. You come and spew your garbage and try to to act like you know what you're talking about, but to anyone with even the slightest knowledge, you come off as a complete moron.


For someone who has been riding for like 4 years and rode park for the first time 3 years ago you are obviously a mainstreamer..........


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## BurtonAvenger

linvillegorge said:


> You have to be the most try-hard poster on this site. You come and spew your garbage and try to to act like you know what you're talking about, but to anyone with even the slightest knowledge, you come off as a complete moron.


The Internet, where every person that claims 1990 can spew shit from their finger tips and not think they're talking out of their ass.


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## chomps1211

BurtonAvenger said:


> *The most core thing in snowboarding? The guy that jockey's a cubicle all week for more than 40 hours then promptly spends all his spare time reading up about snowboarding and all his money on snowboarding. That's pretty fucking core.*
> 
> And I'll just stick this here: Here to stay: A Jeremy Jones interview - Snowboard Magazine


…If that's true? I'm one of the "core-est" SOB's on this forum! :laugh: A clown? Maybe,.. but a "core" clown for sure!!!

The only reason I'm hoping my back heals up enough for me to return to work, is that it would mean I can snowboard without having to look over my shoulder, worried I might get busted for SS disability fraud!!! Aside from the paycheck providing for gas & passes, gear etc? The job really just _interferes_ with my snowboarding!


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## Guest

chomps1211 said:


> …If that's true? I'm one of the "core-est" SOB's on this forum! :laugh: A clown? Maybe,.. but a "core" clown for sure!!!
> 
> The only reason I'm hoping my back heals up enough for me to return to work, is that it would mean I can snowboard without having to look over my shoulder, worried I might get busted for SS disability fraud!!! Aside from the paycheck providing for gas & passes, gear etc? The job really just _interferes_ with my snowboarding!



It sucks getting old lol..........


----------



## Guest

linvillegorge said:


> You have to be the most try-hard poster on this site. You come and spew your garbage and try to to act like you know what you're talking about, but to anyone with even the slightest knowledge, you come off as a complete moron.


Guess people think you are an immature dumbass...........


Reference:

http://www.snowboardingforum.com/boards/173042-looking-surfy-damp-freeride-board-3.html#post2197458


----------



## linvillegorge

golfer1659 said:


> Guess people think you are an immature dumbass...........
> 
> 
> Reference:
> 
> http://www.snowboardingforum.com/boards/173042-looking-surfy-damp-freeride-board-3.html#post2197458


You mean a poster with 6 posts on this site? A poster that made a bad misconception about the impetus of my post? A poster that is probably an alias of yours?

I'm crushed.


----------



## lab49232

golfer1659 said:


> Guess people think you are an immature dumbass...........
> 
> 
> Reference:
> 
> http://www.snowboardingforum.com/boards/173042-looking-surfy-damp-freeride-board-3.html#post2197458


Guess what, everyone else on this thread thinks the same about you... :finger1: 

Oh and if you want to talk mainstream and core and other lables you love creating and applying, well you're hate White and Burton (without actual knowledge of why to like or dislike either) is about as mainstream as possible among riders who are just getting in to the sport. For some reason they think if they hate Burton and White it makes them look superior and more knowledgeable than those peons who have yet to see through their garbage. Well guess what, you're just another cog in the machine. And a very stupid, misinformed cog at that.


----------



## BurtonAvenger

While we're all here waving our dicks around there's a big story about to break and you guys have no fucking clue. I love big stories that change snowboarding. What can it be? Who left what brand? What is out of business? They're outsourcing to where?


----------



## ItchEtrigR

When does it hit the site? I'm curious


----------



## lab49232

BurtonAvenger said:


> While we're all here waving our dicks around there's a big story about to break and you guys have no fucking clue. I love big stories that change snowboarding. What can it be? Who left what brand? What is out of business? They're outsourcing to where?


Nike is coming back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## linvillegorge

BurtonAvenger said:


> While we're all here waving our dicks around there's a big story about to break and you guys have no fucking clue. I love big stories that change snowboarding. What can it be? Who left what brand? What is out of business? They're outsourcing to where?


Well, at least give us a clue as to which category it is!

Big story... let's see...

Who left what brand? If I had to guess there, T. Rice leaving Lib Tech. That'd be about the biggest news possible on that front I guess.

What is out of business? Virtually all of the snowboarding brands are privately held, so there's little financial data out there available, so no clue there. I think I'd stick with the Mervin guess though.

Who outsourcing and to where? Fuck, let's go with the clean Mervin sweep. Mervin to China.

I'm probably way off here, but those are my guesses.


----------



## BurtonAvenger

I'm confirming facts right now and checking multiple sources. Fucking google translate is a bitch!


----------



## Nivek

Shaun to Rossignol
Never Summer death
Mervin to Russia


----------



## lab49232

BurtonAvenger said:


> I'm confirming facts right now and checking multiple sources. Fucking google translate is a bitch!


Fuck now I'm legitimately curious. That doesn't make it sound like it's what I thought you were talking about (mainly the fact that the Google translate wouldn't be needed...)


----------



## lab49232

Nivek said:


> Shaun to Rossignol
> Never Summer death
> Mervin to Russia


Bahahhahaha now that would certainly be the trifecta of mindblow.... I have a few sources that can confirm that's not entirely the case though :happy:


----------



## jliu

following the trend of nike...adidas leaves snowboarding...!

DC snow closing shop...


----------



## BurtonAvenger

Nivek said:


> Shaun to Rossignol
> Never Summer death
> Mervin to Russia


DAMMIT! You were supposed to wait till I dropped the full story.


----------



## linvillegorge




----------



## KIRKRIDER

f00bar said:


> Actually explains a lot. They kept watching his movies and saying "Get rid of him, he isnt even wearing our stuff!"


hahahahaha I was saying! Wears O'Neill, rides JJ,,where's Burton?


----------



## hikeswithdogs

I don't think anyone over the age of 30 cares who rides for what company.

I mean seriously when was the lat time you bought a board from Company A because someone rode for that company.....I mean come on who cares about any of that shit.


----------



## lab49232

hikeswithdogs said:


> I don't think anyone over the age of 30 cares who rides for what company.
> 
> I mean seriously when was the lat time you bought a board from Company A because someone rode for that company.....I mean come on who cares about any of that shit.


This isn't exactly the point. The point behind them is that having a high level rider on your gear adds credibility to the quality and performance of the brand he's riding. AKA people think "if Burton is good enough for Shaun White and Jeremy Jones, it's good enough for me." If a brand has no pro riders it can give off the idea that their gear isn't good enough for the pros.

And while people will say "I never actually think of it that way" you do even if you don't realize it. Marketing works and the people that say it doesn't just proves how powerful it truly is.


----------



## deagol

I disagree (but agree with Hikeswithdogs). This is why I didn't realize there were two Jeremy Jones's until this thread. 

I used to know who all the pro riders were back in the late 80's/ easly 90's, but couldn't name 5 now since it doesn't affect my riding at all...

When you try to build your life around making the mortgage payment and still having some fun time, the focus can narrow down to what is truly important to you..


----------



## f00bar

hikeswithdogs said:


> I don't think anyone over the age of 30 cares who rides for what company.
> 
> I mean seriously when was the lat time you bought a board from Company A because someone rode for that company.....I mean come on who cares about any of that shit.


There are probably a half dozen bankable names out there. Rice leading the way and allowing libtech to overprice and still sell. Certainly Jones helps his brand.

My son has some Burton White collection pants but has no idea who he is. They just happen to be a pretty decent line for youth. His name is selling very little at this point.

Now you do need good riders to showcase your stuff. But it's not like basketball where a big name signing can actually create enough of a frenzy people are shooting each other in line to get them.


----------



## lab49232

deagol said:


> I disagree (but agree with Hikeswithdogs). This is why I didn't realize there were two Jeremy Jones's until this thread.
> 
> I used to know who all the pro riders were back in the late 80's/ easly 90's, but couldn't name 5 now since it doesn't affect my riding at all...
> 
> When you try to build your life around making the mortgage payment and still having some fun time, the focus can narrow down to what is truly important to you..


Oh no doubt pro riders have less of an impact the older you get, riders in general though are just less known now. White brought the media coverage to snowboarding and pro riders and as he's started receding so has the coverage of snowboarding.

That being said as you grow older you still remember what brands had your favorite riders when you were younger and that still plays a role in what you think of brands. And the poitn I was making was simply explaining people often don't buy a board *BECAUSE* of one specific rider but rather the fact that pros ride that brand provides reassurance that the brand itself is worth considering.


----------



## deagol

lab49232 said:


> ... you still remember what brands had your favorite riders when you were younger and that still plays a role in what you think of brands. ...


yeah, that is true, .. or used to be for me. I started on Burton, went to Sims, then back to Burton (their bindings were a huge improvement over Sims). I was loyal to Burton for years, then came the channel. The cool thing now is I ride on brands where I have actually been to the factories they are made and have spoken to people in person who make them. It doesn't seem like that could happen for a normal rider like me with a huge company like Burton.


----------



## lab49232

deagol said:


> yeah, that is true, .. or used to be for me. I started on Burton, went to Sims, then back to Burton (there bindings were a huge improvement over Sims). I was loyal to Burton for years, then came the channel. The cool thing now is I ride on brands where I have actually been to the factories they are made and have spoken to people in person who make them. It doesn't seem like that could happen for a normal rider like me with a huge company like Burton.


Exactly. Customers do mature greatly as they get older. However (and obviously no offense) you make up the tiniest portion of the snowboarding market and are now far less relevant to the brands. They no longer are marketing to you.


----------



## hikeswithdogs

lab49232 said:


> This isn't exactly the point. The point behind them is that having a high level rider on your gear adds credibility to the quality and performance of the brand he's riding. AKA people think "if Burton is good enough for Shaun White and Jeremy Jones, it's good enough for me." If a brand has no pro riders it can give off the idea that their gear isn't good enough for the pros.
> 
> And while people will say "I never actually think of it that way" you do even if you don't realize it. Marketing works and the people that say it doesn't just proves how powerful it truly is.


While I agree conceptually that "marketing works" I don't buy shit based on anything but what I can get a good deal(Steap and Cheap, Ebay , REI clearance etc) on at the time.....as long as it's a reputable company selling roughly that widget I want(ie powderboard,splitboard ect) and it's reviews well then most likely I'm buying regardless of looks\graphics or brand.


----------



## deagol

lab49232 said:


> Exactly. Customers do mature greatly as they get older. However (and obviously no offense) you make up the tiniest portion of the snowboarding market and are now far less relevant to the brands. They no longer are marketing to you.


I'm fine with that..


----------



## lab49232

hikeswithdogs said:


> While I agree conceptually that "marketing works" I don't buy shit based on anything but what I can get a good deal(Steap and Cheap, Ebay , REI clearance etc) on at the time.....as long as it's a *reputable company* selling roughly that widget I want(ie powderboard,splitboard ect) and it's reviews well then most likely I'm buying regardless of looks\graphics or brand.


And there's the exact point I make. No easier way to make companies more reputable than putting the best riders in the world on their gear. However tha's why as I mentioned earlier it blows my mind companies who are struggling are still paying large TEAMS of riders. Most big name brands have established their reputation, now they just need one or two riders to keep them in the public eye.


----------



## Mystery2many

golfer1659 said:


> I notice more and more people around the industry that are starting to hate burton because of what they stand for now. They stand for everything that is wrong in the system. Also they support Shaun White which is probably the worst example of a professional snowboarder should stand for. That guy gets high on his own existence and I have seen him change with the era.
> 
> Big company prays on the weak. When I first started boarding in 1990, Burton stood for the rider and the industry as a group that works together. It is the total opposite now. They roll into these smaller companies and bring their big lawyers and pray on the weak and less funded companies.
> 
> They put Special Blend out of business because their clothes and coats were competing with their product too much.
> 
> I personally now refuse to buy ANYTHING burton. That used to be a board per season and bindings and clothes, jackets and hats. Burton turned Walmart on an industry that was totally against that philosophy and the snowboarding community lost that original theme when everything went main stream.
> 
> It used to be 2 snowboarders on the whole mountain, now its everyone and a lot for the wrong reason. Looks, what you ride, and shooting down people because they don't do the same as others. Back in the day everyone had their own style and flare and go to trick and you would uplift one another no matter what.
> 
> BuckFurton............just had these stickers made up a week ago.........


What a huge load of Yankee doodle dog shit. You know as much about snowboarding and the industry as you do about the back of your bald spot. I'm fucking telling you guys, this dude is either a skier or fucking should be. 

This reminds me of that South Park episode were Stan starts seeing and hearing everything as shit. Cynical Bastard I think was the episode. As I read this it just starts sounding like farts and corn pieces shooting out.


----------



## BurtonAvenger

Mystery2many said:


> What a huge load of Yankee doodle dog shit. You know as much about snowboarding and the industry as you do about the back of your bald spot. I'm fucking telling you guys, this dude is either a skier or fucking should be.
> 
> This reminds me of that South Park episode were Stan starts seeing and hearing everything as shit. Cynical Bastard I think was the episode. As I read this it just starts sounding like farts and corn pieces shooting out.


1990 FOREVER! 1990! Seriously.


----------



## Guest

Mystery2many said:


> What a huge load of Yankee doodle dog shit. You know as much about snowboarding and the industry as you do about the back of your bald spot. I'm fucking telling you guys, this dude is either a skier or fucking should be.
> 
> This reminds me of that South Park episode were Stan starts seeing and hearing everything as shit. Cynical Bastard I think was the episode. As I read this it just starts sounding like farts and corn pieces shooting out.



Go fuck yourself man. The insecurities in this thread is outstanding. 

Btw, I asked several of you colorado bitches to meet in person when I was out there. All I got was crickets. Tough guys behind the computer....



Fyi go ask UNION how burton came in with their Lawyers not to long ago........maybe you need to learn some shit and shut the fuck up.


----------



## Nivek

Burton and Union? Huh? Flux had some issues with Union. They have the patent on toe caps so Union was dealing with them. Please, divulge what Burton was doing with Union. By your view of Burton and the Program I have every reason to believe your a jackass. If Burton was going to go after an outerwear brand it would be 686. The Smarty pant is the highest selling pant right now. Burton Cargo is second to it. Peter line was leading Forum/SB/4Square into the ground and the only offers to buy other than Burton were Sports Authority and the same holding group that bought M4. Thanks, I'd rather keep Forum a legit brand. You are continuing to poison threads with over opinionated and blatantly poor information. Leave.


----------



## Argo

I only saw you call out one guy. 

Burton, whether you love or hate them, does plenty for the sport. Unless you plan to do anything more than bitch and talk about how you have ridden 3 days a year since 1990 then stfu. I would venture to guess that Burton as a whole does more to bring in new boarders every year than any other company and possibly multiple companies combined. As for Shaun, same deal with him. love or hate him, he has a bigger fan base than anyone, dude at least tries. Sure, he can be a douche some days but god Damn, your a douche at least twice as much as him. I have met him a few various times in the past 7 years and he is just another dude, always nice to my kid and I. 

Want to meet a nice dude, go hit up grinder.....


----------



## Mystery2many

golfer1659 said:


> Go fuck yourself man. The insecurities in this thread is outstanding.
> 
> Btw, I asked several of you colorado bitches to meet in person when I was out there. All I got was crickets. Tough guys behind the computer....
> 
> 
> 
> Fyi go ask UNION how burton came in with their Lawyers not to long ago........maybe you need to learn some shit and shut the fuck up.


I got your PM and accepted the invite. I hope you are as tough as you think you are. Just let me know when you wanna meet up. 

By the way. Its very mature of you to get butt hurt and want to fight because people don't agree with what you say or think. But if you feel its something you need to do then by all means lets have some fun.


----------



## BurtonAvenger

golfer1659 said:


> Go fuck yourself man. The insecurities in this thread is outstanding.
> 
> Btw, I asked several of you colorado bitches to meet in person when I was out there. All I got was crickets. Tough guys behind the computer....
> 
> 
> 
> Fyi go ask UNION how burton came in with their Lawyers not to long ago........maybe you need to learn some shit and shut the fuck up.


1. You talk out of your ass. 
2. I have a track record of meeting douches like you in person and the bitch not showing up. 
3. You're a fucking moron. 



Mystery2many said:


> I got your PM and accepted the invite. I hope you are as tough as you think you are. Just let me know when you wanna meet up.
> 
> By the way. Its very mature of you to get butt hurt and want to fight because people don't agree with what you say or think. But if you feel its something you need to do then by all means lets have some fun.


He's all talk, no show. 

Also for those that want something to chew on this just happened: The GST Factory in Austria is Closing -

Please Golfer intrigue me on your detailed knowledge of why the second largest factory in Austria is now going out of business.


----------



## Banjo

BurtonAvenger said:


> Also for those that want something to chew on this just happened: The GST Factory in Austria is Closing -


This is pretty shitty, and a classic longterm problem of the outsourcing that happens in every industry. 

Screw the brands, they will be fine hopefully these people and the whole town can land on their feet. A similar thing happened where I grew up, a small-ish factory closed and it killed the town.


----------



## f00bar

Not to start a whole debate about this (though it will happen anyway), but this is one of the intangibles that draw me somewhat to Mervin. At least they completely control their own destiny. 

Doesn't mean they won't go under or have hard times and layoffs. While it makes their overhead higher I think having control over every aspect makes it worth it, at least until they can't pay for the lights.


----------



## linvillegorge

Wonder what build house Jones is going to use now? First Nidecker, then GST, now...


----------



## Nivek

Yes already has had some production come from SWS in Dubai. I expect they'll go 100% and Jones and Slash will likey follow.


----------



## hikeswithdogs

lab49232 said:


> And there's the exact point I make. No easier way to make companies more reputable than putting the best riders in the world on their gear. However tha's why as I mentioned earlier it blows my mind companies who are struggling are still paying large TEAMS of riders. Most big name brands have established their reputation, now they just need one or two riders to keep them in the public eye.


And send out a lot of demo boards for bloggers\magazines to review?


----------



## Jamesinvt

I always ask myself if people who hate on others who aren't "core" enough because they ride Burton, are gapers, etc. want to live in a world where it's 95% skiiers to 5% riders on the mountain. Why are you discouraging everyone who hasn't already gone through the process of learning like you did? I ride at resorts where the snowboarding presence is small compared to skiing, and it sucks tbh.


----------



## lab49232

GST going under I will debate will actually have little to no effect on the industry.

Niche snowboards shouldn't be in business anymore. I couldn't believe they made it out of 2012. They can't give their boards away. Hell the Climb still has three year old models available that they've had for 2 years now and still cant move. Hopefully this finally puts the nail in their coffin for their own sake.

Flow Snowboards are frankly 100% irrelevant. They have been trying to redesign and add a new story for the last few years to no avail. Honestly it's a little surprising they keep trying to push it. Their boards that did sell weren't the ones made in GST anyway. Flows new big push is boots, their bindnigs are still their bindings and have their place. Their boards theyve just never been able to find their market (partially because up until last year they were trying to sell to the wrong market)

Drake, well it's Drake.

Jones is probably the biggest along with Rome although Rome will switch to the cheaper factory with little concern I'd imagine (but that's pure speculation). Jones, well they have a season to figure it out.

The other thing to note as mentioned Angry mentioned is that it's not all about saving money in China. So many of these guys can't pay on time anymore. It's a huge hit for these factories but it's been happening a ton. A lot of factories in China now are requiring upfront payment before boards are even produced to deal with it.


----------



## deltout

GST closing is a bit hit to the industry. Without big production house's it will be harder for small or new board companies to get into the market.


----------



## Nivek

Flow has certainly had issues with marketing and which demo they actually aim at. '16 is a lot more concise with a brand new all em ompassing tech story. They have already moved to China for '16. I would certainly disagree that they are irrelevant at all. Find me one other rocker camber, sintered, carbon stringer tip to tail deck out there that is $400, and Flow has one for men and women. Then take out the sintered base and make it a bit softer for $360. A board that genuinely competes with the Custom FV and Agent Rocker for $440 full price. They have one of the best priced and best riding lines out there. They're gaining traction. Expect to see more of them.

Niche actuallt does very well in Canada. But they're story is somewhat played out with the Eco thing. I'll be getting on a Story RC hopefully monday and if it rides well, then it will compete with the Trice HP for $100 less minus the beans topseet and from my experience with the Aether a magne that works better. The Knew is a really solid deck and honestly pretty well priced. They're still young. But they are in fact growing.

I already mentioned Yes/Slash/Jones is probably headed to SWS. 

DC boards are... there. They arent bad at all, but they dont stand out. No decks for them for '17 wouldnt shock me as long as rider contracts line up as such.

There is also some moves being made in China this summer as well. I dont know how public they want it so I wont say any more, but there wont be the same factory crunch as there was when Elan died.


----------



## deltout

if you like camber DC has some good options.
but without Torstein i see them going away.


----------



## lab49232

Nivek said:


> Flow has certainly had issues with marketing and which demo they actually aim at. '16 is a lot more concise with a brand new all em ompassing tech story. They have already moved to China for '16. I would certainly disagree that they are irrelevant at all. Find me one other rocker camber, sintered, carbon stringer tip to tail deck out there that is $400, and Flow has one for men and women. Then take out the sintered base and make it a bit softer for $360. A board that genuinely competes with the Custom FV and Agent Rocker for $440 full price. *They have one of the best priced and best riding lines out there. They're gaining traction. Expect to see more of them.*
> 
> Niche actuallt does very well in Canada. But they're story is somewhat played out with the Eco thing. I'll be getting on a Story RC hopefully monday and if it rides well, then it will compete with the Trice HP for $100 less minus the beans topseet and from my experience with the Aether a magne that works better. The Knew is a really solid deck and honestly pretty well priced. They're still young. But they are in fact growing.
> 
> I already mentioned Yes/Slash/Jones is probably headed to SWS.
> 
> DC boards are... there. They arent bad at all, but they dont stand out. No decks for them for '17 wouldnt shock me as long as rider contracts line up as such.
> 
> There is also some moves being made in China this summer as well. I dont know how public they want it so I wont say any more, but there wont be the same factory crunch as there was when Elan died.


2016 Flow line is MUCH MUCH improved. That being said they have *zero* sales which is what makes them irrelevant. We can talk about tech, quality etc. etc. etc. all day long (and you're right they do offer some impressive stuff as far as tech reads) but to be relevant you have to sell boards. *They do not*. While they are finally pushing in the right direction this coming season they've been struggling to keep their board line alive. You can make the best board on the market at the best price. If it doesn't sell it's not relevant.

Niche makes awesome looking boards, the Eco story is interesting but played out, and that's all they offer. They ride ok, not great by any means, a lot of pretty semi dead feeling models, and Canada alone is the only thing allowing them to hang on by a thread. Niche will not be a company in the next 5 years, take that to the bank. You won't find another brand of board on the market where retailers still have carryover boards from 3 seasons past that remain in business. Hell the Clymb is their main retailer......

But China is in fact moving to Dubai. China will always have a place but Dubai is fast becoming the new China. It's pretty interesting to watch play out.


----------



## alchemy

deltout said:


> if you like camber DC has some good options.
> but without Torstein i see them going away.


do you know something?


----------



## deltout

no not at all. 
just an observation,when thing go bad sometimes they go real bad.
i saw a review of 16' media blitz and the guy from DC seemed dejected.just got thinking.


----------



## Nivek

That might have just been the Media Blitz. It's supposed to be the deck that Torstein actually rides. Like he could buy it in the store and go to XGames. It's too much board for 99.99% of us mere mortals. 

Maybe Flow doesn't sell well where you are, but I have 100% sell through of previous year and about 70% inline. We sold out of Era's in Nov and Drfters early Jan. It helps that I'm there, sure. But if the shop is willing to sell them, they sell great. And I found that just going over the key tech and price was all it took cause anything else in the price range had less. Honestly the shop kids are Flows biggest hurdle.

I am very curious to ride the Story Monday. On paper the biggest difference between that and a TRice HP is the resin. And Loaded Longboards successfully uses soy resin in their skate decks and now snowboards and maintains a lot of life. It is doable. Also, if it does ride well enough or similar to the Rice HP, just one more stroke that Mervin had most the consumers dooped into thinking they make THE BEST snowboards.

It is what it is, opinions vary, brands that should die, make it, and brands that should make it, die. In the end, snowboarding is still there.


----------



## lab49232

Nivek said:


> Maybe Flow doesn't sell well where you are, but I have 100% sell through of previous year and about 70% inline. We sold out of Era's in Nov and Drfters early Jan. It helps that I'm there, sure. But if the shop is willing to sell them, they sell great. And I found that just going over the key tech and price was all it took cause anything else in the price range had less. Honestly the shop kids are Flows biggest hurdle.


As for this your post kind of shows the difference. Your talking about small time brick and mortar (in comparison to the large online companies) where you have to personally sell each board. That's no longer enough sales to keep a company producing as large as Flow. I can talk about anybody in to any snowboard in person if I truly want to. However if you talk to the higher ups in Flow, or the larger online retailers you'll find their sales are bleak and that's where sales are. As I know you've seen and know, brick and mortar specialty shops are the smallest segment of the market. My point is (and by no means do I mean any offense) you can't take you selling a few Flow boards in person in a shop and apply those percentages to Flow's board sales across the market. Hopefully their new line fixes this. Thank GOD they dumped the Augmented Base, that shit was stupid as hell to even explain in person. The windows to all the tech is a great talking point in person now as well, but when more and more people continue to buy online, those features become irrelevant.



Nivek said:


> I am very curious to ride the Story Monday. On paper the biggest difference between that and a TRice HP is the resin. And Loaded Longboards successfully uses soy resin in their skate decks and now snowboards and maintains a lot of life. It is doable. Also, if it does ride well enough or similar to the Rice HP, just one more stroke that Mervin had most the consumers dooped into thinking they make THE BEST snowboards.


Loaded boards are GREAT, Niche, well anybody can talk about tech but it's all about ride and the Story simply does not live up to its promoted tech story and price (although again when you can buy it for over 50% off every season that helps). Obviously ride it yourself and see what you think, but from a sales aspect, well let's just say brands that sell don't have their entire line available on closeouts sites for two years after they were released and as a retailer you know sales are key.


----------



## BurtonAvenger

I wouldn't call where Nivek works little or irrelevant on any scale. Their buying power and muscle is pretty relevant to snow.


----------



## lab49232

BurtonAvenger said:


> I wouldn't call where Nivek works little or irrelevant on any scale. Their buying power and muscle is pretty relevant to snow.


I honestly don't know where he works and didn't mean to insinuate it didn't matter or insult it by any means. But you and I both know where Niche stands as a brand, and if he truly sells Through 70% inline at full cost how many do you sell (don't actually answer that obviously, no need to share inside numbers) but if it's online style volume in Flow boards in a season well He's one of their leading board retailers. Again if it's brick and mortar as he insinuated it's a different beast than the large scale market. Again I Hope Flow boards pick up but saying their board sales on the market as a whole are anything but atrocious is just wrong.


----------



## Nivek

Your absolutelt right. My numbers are far less impactfull than anything online. But, my shop is more or less used as the thermometer for the whole region. And the fastest way to influence online sales is to sell brick and mortar and get the public seeing it on hill.


----------



## SGboarder

f00bar said:


> Not to start a whole debate about this (though it will happen anyway), but this is one of the intangibles that draw me somewhat to Mervin. At least they completely control their own destiny.
> 
> Doesn't mean they won't go under or have hard times and layoffs. While it makes their overhead higher I think having control over every aspect makes it worth it, at least until they can't pay for the lights.


Say what? Mervin has not had control of their own destiny for a long time - owned by Quiksilver since 1997 and sold to a financial investor group a little over a year ago.


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## lab49232

Nivek said:


> Your absolutelt right. My numbers are far less impactfull than anything online. But, my shop is more or less used as the thermometer for the whole region. And the fastest way to influence online sales is to sell brick and mortar and get the public seeing it on hill.


Interesting, I don't totally agree with on slope being the fastest but it does help a ton (I think online reviews and placement being the biggest as people even buying in shop go online to research before they go in shop). Do you mind me asking your region? Totally cool if you decline. I do honestly think if they can get through two seasons and continue with the changes they've been working on the last year and a half their sales will increase. It's just funny to me to see how big a player they are in the binding market and how much they're struggling in the board market.


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## Nivek

Colorado. 

A huge problem was general lack of all marketing on the board front for years, then when they actually started pushing it they had polarizing graphics. Its an issue they're aware of. And they still have the "gimmick" mindset to break from older riders who havent paid attention to them since the mid 2000's. I hear "I didnt even know Flow made boards" and "are their boards like they're binding....kind of gimmicky" a lot.


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## lab49232

Nivek said:


> Colorado.
> 
> A huge problem was general lack of all marketing on the board front for years, *then when they actually started pushing it they had polarizing graphics. Its an issue they're aware of.* And they still have the "gimmick" mindset to break from older riders who havent paid attention to them since the mid 2000's. I hear "I didnt even know Flow made boards" and "are their boards like they're binding....kind of gimmicky" a lot.


This, so much this. It was obvious to most people for years and the stupid part is they had to pay for a market research program the other year to finally tell them their customer wasn't the skulls, boobs and intense graphic guy but rather families and parents. Hell I remember suggesting this to one of their main reps in 2011 and it still took them 3 years to catch on.  They're getting it now, but is it too late? Only time will tell (but my guess is yes sadly).

And Colorado, nice, you actually are in one of their better markets as of late, move a little west though and... well you get the point.


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## Nivek

They do well enough in the foreign markets to keep them solvent while they gain traction in the US. That and they do well enough with bindings everywhere that they can be slow with boards right now. I think they've finally found their formula with '16 so I only see positive things. Now all they need is a camrock Drifter and a slightly less directional and roundtail Darwin and their line will be perfect.


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## Demi9OD

Nivek said:


> ***snip***
> 
> I am very curious to ride the Story Monday. On paper the biggest difference between that and a TRice HP is the resin. And Loaded Longboards successfully uses soy resin in their skate decks and now snowboards and maintains a lot of life. It is doable. Also, if it does ride well enough or similar to the Rice HP, just one more stroke that Mervin had most the consumers dooped into thinking they make THE BEST snowboards.
> 
> It is what it is, opinions vary, brands that should die, make it, and brands that should make it, die. In the end, snowboarding is still there.


I am looking forward to hearing what you have to say about the Story. I picked a 156 up myself a couple weeks ago and have ridden it once. The conditions were so uneven (heavy snow falling all day, chopped to bits, small hill big crowds) that it was hard to pass any real judgement. Did everything I asked of it admirably well though, even if all I asked it to do was bust through chunder and not throw me on my face.


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## booron

Nivek said:


> Colorado.
> And they still have the "gimmick" mindset to break from older riders who havent paid attention to them since the mid 2000's. I hear "I didnt even know Flow made boards" and "are their boards like they're binding....kind of gimmicky" a lot.


They dominate such a distinct corner of the market that one wonders how that translates to their snowboards. Not that I would give a shit if I liked Flow bindings, and here in MN I envy those guys who can strap in going down the chairlift ramp, but I think most people would rank Flows below helmets and Jean colored snow pants on the "coolness" meter, and, of course, this extends to their snowboards....


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## BurtonAvenger

For what it's worth one of the most commented on snowboards on my site is the Flow Era. The people commenting on it are typically European or the type that are just buying it direct from Flow.com. The level of comments for that board is on par to the Arbor Westmark.


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## Argo

Flows have more and more presence every year. I used to be a loaner on the hill 8 years ago, now I have a flow binding family..... 

I had a flow board as my first snowboard, never have purchased another one, that will change next season.


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## jdang307

BurtonAvenger said:


> *The most core thing in snowboarding? The guy that jockey's a cubicle all week for more than 40 hours then promptly spends all his spare time reading up about snowboarding and all his money on snowboarding*. That's pretty fucking core.
> 
> And I'll just stick this here: Here to stay: A Jeremy Jones interview - Snowboard Magazine


It's as if you just read my life story.

But I work for myself not in a cubicle 

And I read a lot at night.

But I do buy too many boards for my limited days.


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## BurtonAvenger

jdang307 said:


> It's as if you just read my life story.
> 
> But I work for myself not in a cubicle
> 
> And I read a lot at night.
> 
> But I do buy too many boards for my limited days.


You sir should be commended, you're what keeps the snowboard industry alive.


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## Nivek

BurtonAvenger said:


> jdang307 said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's as if you just read my life story.
> 
> But I work for myself not in a cubicle
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And I read a lot at night.
> 
> But I do buy too many boards for my limited days.
> 
> 
> 
> You sir should be commended, you're what keeps the snowboard industry alive.
Click to expand...

#notsarcasm


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## ThredJack

I've actually never seen a Flow board in person, either at hill or local shop.


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## Nivek

I will put them up against anything else out there.


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## ThredJack

Nivek said:


> I will put them up against anything else out there.


I'm sure they're good, but when it comes time to buy a new board, I won't be buying a Flow unless my local shop has them in stock. I'm sure you understand.


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## Justin

I have been wanting to get back on a flow for a few years but they didn't make the boards i want in a wide. I might have to get a drifter next year but I am a bit worried it will be to stiff. I really wish the era came in a 158-160 wide. 

Did Nivek or BA get a chance to ride a 16 this year?


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## Nivek

I've been riding the '16 Verve and Chill the last 2 months. Solid. The new tech story is awesome.

The 158 Era will easily fit a 13 with a 25.8 waist.


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## BurtonAvenger

I have the new Drifter sitting in my living room I think, fuck if I know there's like 70 boards in a stack.


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