# Radial and Progressive Sidecuts



## Snowdaddy (Feb 2, 2018)

slide away said:


> Hi, I've been wondering how a progressive or multiple sidecut snowboard carves compared to one with a radial sidecut. What are the advantages or disadvantages, does a progressive sidecut allow for longer more drawn out turns as well as tighter, if it was say 11.0​/6.9​/9.1, or is it just the shape the turn (ie more elliptical) will make throughout the carve? :icon_scratch:


Sidecuts can be variable in different ways.

A one radius sidecut is made from one circle. As the more force you apply to it through the turn the shorter the sidecut becomes. This makes it turn tighter. So in the end of a turn when you have the most force applied it will turn shorter than in the beginning.

By making the front and rear parts of the sidecut longer you counter this, making the transitions go smoother.

If you make the sidecut shorter near the ends you will be able to shorten the sidecut by applying more force to that section of the board. Meaning if you for instance stepped back on a board with a shorter radius in the rear it would suddenly turn tighter.

11.0/6.9/9.1 is a sidecut that will have a drawn out initiation of the turn (providing you step on the front foot) then even out the sidecut as more force is applied in the end of the turn.

As I understand it.


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## Snowdaddy (Feb 2, 2018)

What bugs me is that companies don't write out their sidecuts.


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## slide away (Nov 30, 2015)

Thanks for the explanation Snowdaddy. 

Does this mean that a progressive sidecut could have a more relaxed style of carving if the entry and exit are drawn out? The board I have has a radial sidecut of 6.5m and I find it really whips round a turn with a lot of G-force. I find it quite tiring and difficult at times to control, and needs a lot of timing and concentration. So was thinking of getting a second board with an easier more relaxing cruzey ride style. Thought a progressive sidecut might help.


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## Snowdaddy (Feb 2, 2018)

slide away said:


> Thanks for the explanation Snowdaddy.
> 
> Does this mean that a progressive sidecut could have a more relaxed style of carving if the entry and exit are drawn out? The board I have has a radial sidecut of 6.5m and I find it really whips round a turn with a lot of G-force. I find it quite tiring and difficult at times to control, and needs a lot of timing and concentration. So was thinking of getting a second board with an easier more relaxing cruzey ride style. Thought a progressive sidecut might help.


I feel like I'm too inexperienced riding different sidecuts to advice you, but yes I do believe that would be correct.

The sidecut isn't everything that makes that turn though. It's also type of camber, flex and torsional stiffness. For example, by flexing the board torsionally you can engage different parts of the sidecut, making the board turn more or less.

I think it also depends on preferred riding style. A long sidecut forces you to ride faster to generate the centripetal force needed to lean into a carve. A sidecut with a shorter radius on one or two ends lets you control the radius easier. So even if you picked a progressive sidecut with longer radius towards the end you could end up with a board that forced you to race down the mountain to make nice carves.

Out of curiosity, what kind of board do you ride? Are you sure it's a single radius sidecut? I ride a 9m sidecut, but it's an average sidecut of 9m. I also think it's put together from elliptical sidecuts.


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## slide away (Nov 30, 2015)

I've got a 2016/17 yes optimistic 6.5m radial. It turns aggressively and I find it impossible to carve down steeper slopes with it (alpine reds), maybe just bad technique or weak legs. I've read a longer sidecut helps on steeper slopes cos your not fighting your speed so much and you can carry the speed easier through the turn. But I wasn't sure how a progressive one would handle/ride, especially for steeper runs.


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## Snowdaddy (Feb 2, 2018)

slide away said:


> I've got a 2016/17 yes optimistic 6.5m radial. It turns aggressively and I find it impossible to carve down steeper slopes with it (alpine reds), maybe just bad technique or weak legs. I've read a longer sidecut helps on steeper slopes cos your not fighting your speed so much and you can carry the speed easier through the turn. But I wasn't sure how a progressive one would handle/ride, especially for steeper runs.


I think you are on the right track. An option would be to have a longer average sidecut but still have a shorter sidecut in the back.

I understand the Optimistic is quite stiff, so that should make the board resist some of the shortening of the sidecut during the turn. I don't think it's a single radius sidecut though. I could be wrong.

Might be you're just in need of a longer sidecut. I also guess that single radius sidecuts are kind of rare.


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## jerry gnarcia (Feb 11, 2017)

The Donek guy has some good vids explaining this.












Snowdaddy said:


> Might be you're just in need of a longer sidecut. I also guess that single radius sidecuts are kind of rare.


They are not rare. They are the most common.


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## drblast (Feb 28, 2017)

slide away said:


> I've got a 2016/17 yes optimistic 6.5m radial. It turns aggressively and I find it impossible to carve down steeper slopes with it (alpine reds), maybe just bad technique or weak legs.


Probably more technique than sidecut. The Optimistic carves very well.


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## Snowdaddy (Feb 2, 2018)

jerry gnarcia said:


> They are not rare. They are the most common.


Nice videos!

Are you sure about the sidecut? Just because they don't write out "average" does't mean it's just one single radius. I watched the presentation of the Optimistic and he talks about several sidecuts in one.

Salomon uses quadratic sidecuts.


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## Snowdaddy (Feb 2, 2018)

Jones uses progressive sidecuts as well. Looking at the Yes boards it seems they do too. At least on the models I looked at.


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## MrDavey2Shoes (Mar 5, 2018)

you dont need to go with a progressive, although that could be an option. If you want long drawn out carves at higher speeds look for a side cut of ~8 or above


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## Rip154 (Sep 23, 2017)

Progressive can either help you initiate the turn, slingshot you out of it, both, and/or even help provide easier grip through the turn on certain shapes. The Donek vid really explains it well.

Quadratic sidecuts or similar can be progressive or degressive depending on the angle the straightlines form and provide easier/extra contactpoints depending on how much the lines are blended.

A 6,5m sidecut stiff camber won't be the easiest to carve steeps with, at least not when it's icy, you need some speed to dig in on those drawn out carves at least.


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## slide away (Nov 30, 2015)

Snowdaddy said:


> Jones uses progressive sidecuts as well. Looking at the Yes boards it seems they do too. At least on the models I looked at.


Had a look on the Yes site and some boards it gives the sidecut eg 7.8 / 6.9 / 6 (PYL) but for the Optimistic its just 6.5 so pretty sure its radial, if not they would give the different radii for it, also never seen any other figures given for it apart from 6.5m on any other info, even the leaflet with the board. 

The board has "underbite tech" (indents at the inserts) which kinda breaks the continual edge in to 3 sections, but the sidecut is the same 6.5m in all the sections, or so I believe.


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## Snowdaddy (Feb 2, 2018)

slide away said:


> Had a look on the Yes site and some boards it gives the sidecut eg 7.8 / 6.9 / 6 (PYL) but for the Optimistic its just 6.5 so pretty sure its radial, if not they would give the different radii for it, also never seen any other figures given for it apart from 6.5m on any other info, even the leaflet with the board.
> 
> The board has "underbite tech" (indents at the inserts) which kinda breaks the continual edge in to 3 sections, but the sidecut is the same 6.5m in all the sections, or so I believe.


Since you actually own the board I'm sure you are right on this.


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## Snowdaddy (Feb 2, 2018)

Rip154 said:


> Progressive can either help you initiate the turn, slingshot you out of it, both, and/or even help provide easier grip through the turn on certain shapes. The Donek vid really explains it well.
> 
> Quadratic sidecuts or similar can be progressive or degressive depending on the angle the straightlines form and provide easier/extra contactpoints depending on how much the lines are blended.
> 
> A 6,5m sidecut stiff camber won't be the easiest to carve steeps with, at least not when it's icy, you need some speed to dig in on those drawn out carves at least.


Just by randomly looking around it seems like the "progressive" sidecut used in many brands. Amplid and Korua uses longer sidecuts towards the tail, just as Jones and from what I can see some of Arbors boards.

I still think it would be helpful if they would just write that out instead of just writing average sidecut or just putting down a number. Most of the "smaller" snowboard brands are very helpful if you ask them about it though.


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## Rip154 (Sep 23, 2017)

For some brands the specs and fun facts are a sales pitch. To others it's shaping that they don't really want to explain in detail. Most buyers won't have a clue what it means anyways, and are just happy if it rides well. Too much information could throw people off. If you say 8m sidecut and camber, they go "Yup, it's a snowboard, give me two of those".


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## Snowdaddy (Feb 2, 2018)

Rip154 said:


> For some brands the specs and fun facts are a sales pitch. To others it's shaping that they don't really want to explain in detail. Most buyers won't have a clue what it means anyways, and are just happy if it rides well. Too much information could throw people off. If you say 8m sidecut and camber, they go "Yup, it's a snowboard, give me two of those".


That's a good point.


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## Snowdaddy (Feb 2, 2018)

I'm curious about what kind of sidecut people ride and which one is their favorite.


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## BoardieK (Dec 21, 2015)

So am I. I own five boards and the only one which has it's sidecut described is my Salomon board with a "quadratic" sidecut - whatever that means.

All I know is that if I lay the (very different) boards on one another the sidecuts really aren't that different.


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## Snowdaddy (Feb 2, 2018)

BoardieK said:


> So am I. I own five boards and the only one which has it's sidecut described is my Salomon board with a "quadratic" sidecut - whatever that means.
> 
> All I know is that if I lay the (very different) boards on one another the sidecuts really aren't that different.


I asked Salomon about the sidecut and they just said it's composed of several elliptical curves. It's obviously not a single radius sidecut, you can see that just by looking at it. I put in a ticket to Salomon about the Speedway, but I haven't heard from them yet. Some brands are both willing and enthusiastic about answering questions about their boards.


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## Phedder (Sep 13, 2014)

Snowdaddy said:


> I asked Salomon about the sidecut and they just said it's composed of several elliptical curves. It's obviously not a single radius sidecut, you can see that just by looking at it. I put in a ticket to Salomon about the Speedway, but I haven't heard from them yet. Some brands are both willing and enthusiastic about answering questions about their boards.


What have you asked them about the Speedway? I demo'd one not long back, if they had any 165s or 170s on their own website I'd have one right now. Absolutely rips, killer edge hold and snap, definitely felt like a progressive sidecut. That thing slingshots you out of each turn.


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## Snowdaddy (Feb 2, 2018)

Phedder said:


> What have you asked them about the Speedway? I demo'd one not long back, if they had any 165s or 170s on their own website I'd have one right now. Absolutely rips, killer edge hold and snap, definitely felt like a progressive sidecut. That thing slingshots you out of each turn.


I asked about the average sidecut radius and if the variable sidecut has longer or shorter radius towards the nose and tail. Salomon doesn't say anything other than it's quadratic and made out of several elliptical shapes. I was interested in the 170.

The thing is I've seen sidecuts with shorter radius in the tail described as progressive as well as boards with longer sidecut in the tail.



> Progressive Sidecut – A larger radius in the front blends into a tighter radius towards the tail. The progressive sidecut makes accelerating out of turns a breeze, while maintaining a catch-free nose area.


 - Nitro Cannon (from Evo text)



> At the far ends of the sidecut, the radius is incrementally increased as the edge reaches the contact point. Gradually increasing the sidecut radius towards the contact point delivers smoother turn initiation and exit as the edge tracks in and out of the snow with a less abrupt transition.


 - Mountain Twin (from jones site)

So the variable sidecuts that are described as "progressive" only seems to mean variable.


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## Snowdaddy (Feb 2, 2018)

Phedder said:


> What have you asked them about the Speedway? I demo'd one not long back, if they had any 165s or 170s on their own website I'd have one right now. Absolutely rips, killer edge hold and snap, definitely felt like a progressive sidecut. That thing slingshots you out of each turn.


The sidecut is apparently 8.3 for the 170. It's also on sale at Freshfarm if anyone in Europe is interested.


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