# Different turn technique on heelside than on toeside!



## lilfoot1598 (Mar 7, 2009)

I've been thinking about my goals for next season and one of them is to clean up my turns and learn to carve. The question I have now is about my current turn technique. Typically, when I transition from toeside to heelside, I lean my weight back towards my front shoulder and transfer the weight of my front foot from the toe to the heel. I then follow shortly with the back foot. However, when I transition from heelside to toeside, I do not use the same technique. I transfer the weight from both heels to both toes simultaneously. It almost feels like I'm jumping and the transition takes place well before the fall line. 

So my question is: am I using two different turn techniques? If so, what are they and is it wrong to do? I think I can safely say that I'm not yet carving, but my turns are definitely dynamic. Is it possible to initiate a carved turn, then skid out of it on purpose using the back foot to control speed? 

I really need to take a lesson.


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## lilfoot1598 (Mar 7, 2009)

Thanks for the tips, Snowolf! It looks like I have some things to work on. I have read through all of your posts on this board about technique and have seen all the videos, which are helpful. I just wasn't sure where my own messed up technique fit in the mix. It looks like the torsional flex of the board is the key for my heelside turns and I'll need to fix some bad habits on toeside. And you're right about toeside - that technique exists 100% due to anxiety.  

Are you planning on teaching at Meadows again next season? I'd love to take some lessons from you if you're around!! :thumbsup:

Thanks again!


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## lilfoot1598 (Mar 7, 2009)

I had a pretty rough first season, for some reason. I started off learning to ski, then switched to snowboarding after struggling for a good month with the boots (turns out ski boots are not made in my size). It then took me FOREVER to learn to link turns - this was in January/February when Mt. Hood had no new snow and I wasn't willing to break my knee caps. Finally it snowed in February and I bought a more appropriate board and was linking turns in no time. Now that I am more confident on varied terrain, I'm ready to start working on my form more. 

Anyway, I'll definitely be in touch this season - I look forward to working with you!


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## Kingscare (Aug 13, 2009)

Snowolf clarify this please :

"You will be fully extended at the apex of the turn and your upper body will be slightly closer to the ground. At the point your board crosses underneath of you, your legs will be fully flexed and your upper body will be at it`s highest point."

Shouldn't that be the opposite? As in fully extended (knees, hips and ankles) when the board crosses underneath you and fully flexed (knees, hips and ankles)) at the apex of the turn? Obviously it's not fully fully extended (still gotta be ready for bumps)...but I believe you made a small typo there.


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## Kingscare (Aug 13, 2009)

ah, my bad. Summer messed me up.


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## Guest (Aug 14, 2009)

I think its perfectly okay to have a different technique than everyone else.

Everyone has a different body, using a different stance, riding on different equipment, under different conditions, across different terrain.

It's all part of your style. Most important thing is to ride comfortably in the style that you choose. Give yourself time to get used to the conditions you are in. Experiment with different aspects of your ride and you'll learn what works for you. I think if you're thinking too hard about what you're SUPPOSED to do, you lose the "feeling" of your ride. You become stiffer just cause you're focusing on where your weight is shifting and how straight your legs are, etc.

Just get out there and ride. OVER AND OVER AND OVER. Your body will tell you what to do after a while.


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## Guest (Aug 15, 2009)

I think the hopping comes from inexperience which translates into an inability to fluidly swap between edges.

The transition becomes jerky, exaggerated, with the rider swerving left and right to maintain an edge and prevent himself from gaining too much speed.

What you see is plowing/ruddering on edge transitions, and riders that make wide Z's versus narrow S's on the trail.

Only when a rider becomes comfortable with the terrain and going at higher speeds indicative of the trail can he develop that dynamic riding ability to drop down the slope through a relatively straight fall line.

But that's probably more of a mental challenge than a matter of technique.

I'm not disagreeing with the previous posts.

I'm just saying there's an inner struggle you have to deal with in addition to analyzing your technique.

And it should be recognized that your own subconscious comfort level has something to do with it in a way that tips and tricks from other people cannot help.

I guess that's how I see the sport in general.

As overcoming mental challenges with each step.



P.S. I wish it would snow already.
P.P.S. A good snowboarder needs to lead the board, not just ride it.


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## lilfoot1598 (Mar 7, 2009)

jiggydancer said:


> I think the hopping comes from inexperience which translates into an inability to fluidly swap between edges.
> 
> The transition becomes jerky, exaggerated, with the rider swerving left and right to maintain an edge and prevent himself from gaining too much speed.
> 
> ...


I think you're absolutely right. For some reason, it was downright traumatic for me to learn to link turns. Near the end of this past season, however, I began to feel more and more comfortable with speed. I was finally able to tackle those areas that had previously scared the shit out of me and it felt great!! So now I'm ready to correct those bad habits that were the result of fear and uncertainty. I'm looking forward to the new season so I can work towards some of these goals!


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## mikez (May 12, 2009)

Just a little tip for anyone suffering fear or anxiety when trying to link turns: look further down the slope while you're riding. At least 10-20m ahead, assuming the terrain is good.

This will eliminate much of the fear (ie you'll quickly realise you're not going as fast as you thought), stop you leaning back (since you're not scared anymore) and you can concentrate on how the turns feel rather than how they look.

It worked wonders for me.


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## baldylox (Dec 27, 2007)

If you are fully extended when the board crosses beneath you, your body is essentially a projectile across the mountain and you likely have long gaps between carved direction changes. The carves will be choppy because you are overwhelming the limited edge hold you have. The idea is to hold the edge through the act of extending and ummmm...unextending (wolf, help me out here. I know the word is in the manual). It helps not to think of it has "riding the board". Break the whole process into four phases. Toeside extension, toeside contraction, heelside extension, heelside contraction. I think were it tends to break down for most aspiring carvers (including myself) is at the latter portion of the heelside turn. The speed built up from the first half of the turn is too much and breaks traction without assistance. If you have properly extended, you have room to pull the edge into the carve tightening the turn and maintaining hold.

EDIT: This was more intended for the poster unsure about extension than OP.


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## Kingscare (Aug 13, 2009)

Seems like this dynamic carving thing is only applicable when the run is very even and isn't all chopped up (i.e. iced up or groomed). As much as I try to keep my legs ready to absorb anything, it seems like I always get caught off guard by an irregular bump and get tossed off the edge and have end up having to rudder.

I guess I'll work on not unweighting during edge transitions this winter.

Oh and when wolf says that powder days are best to get used to this...does that imply that your stance is very off set backwards on your board? I ride quite centered and during pow days i never adjust and I can't let too much weight go forward cuz I tend to sink and submarine a lot. Don't get it.


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## Guest (Aug 19, 2009)

More alternative advice from the Jiggaman:

Don't spend so much time thinking about your form that you forget where you're going. When I was learning I found that it was easier to make my way down the slopes if I can properly plan my path. Even if you get your form spot on, you will still eat $#!+ if you let a bump in the snow catch you off guard. Next thing you're know, you're looking at the sky wondering what you were doing wrong.

Like a previous poster mentioned, look farther down the slope. Decide on a good, safe path around divots, bumps, hills and whatnot. Give your body time to anticipate and prepare for turns by properly positioning your weight. I found it helps to focus more on the mountain than on my own body. It loosens me up. You'll ride smoother if only cause of that.

Eyes forward, knees bent, lead the turns with your shoulders. It'll all get better in time.

And yes I know that's a Leona Lewis song.


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## Guest (Aug 19, 2009)

lilfoot1598 said:


> So my question is: am I using two different turn techniques? If so, what are they and is it wrong to do? I think I can safely say that I'm not yet carving, but my turns are definitely dynamic. Is it possible to initiate a carved turn, then skid out of it on purpose using the back foot to control speed?


Yes, you are using two different turn techniques. But a lot of beginners find it harder to do a toeside turn than a heelside turn. It's a totally different feeling because it necessitates turning your back downhill. Another difference is that it's physically a lot easier to transition onto a toe edge because you are able to flex your ankles towards it.

Here's what's happening:
You actually need more leverage on heelside turns, so your body is probably leaning backwards a lil more than when you are on your toe edge. So in order for you to compensate for overleaning, you're doing that little hop to go back on your toe edge. You probably find that you are spending more time on your toe than on your heel.

On your toe edge, you aren't leaning as much, so you find you can smoothly transition onto your heels.

I think this is perfectly natural btw. But if you want to make it less prominent...

The fix:

1) Bend your ankles so your foot points UP for your heel edge carves. This will strain your shin muscles but help keep you from having to lean so much to stay on your heel edge.

2) Stay on a straighter fall line. Again, keeps you from leaning so much on your heel edge. Problem is you go faster. O_O

3) Buy a GNU Park Pickle (TM). These new boards are created with asymmetrical side cut radii in recognition of the fact that people need extra leverage for heelside turns.


As for skidding out on turns... I wouldn't recommend it. You shouldn't have to brake in the middle of a turn. Brake beforehand. Skidding out does exactly that, make you slide...STRAIGHT. So instead of carving and follow a circular radius, you go straight instead. Into a tree, off a cliff, or into another rider. Slow down, then turn. It's in every driver's ed manual.


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## Guest (Aug 19, 2009)

Kingscare said:


> Seems like this dynamic carving thing is only applicable when the run is very even and isn't all chopped up (i.e. iced up or groomed). As much as I try to keep my legs ready to absorb anything, it seems like I always get caught off guard by an irregular bump and get tossed off the edge and have end up having to rudder.


You beat me to that point by 15 minutes.


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