# The Legendary Burton



## Tauwolf (Oct 12, 2010)

Well, there definitely is a bit of "paying for the name" when it comes to Burton, when you can get better tech for less from some other companies. Alot of it is just irrational dislike.

But alot of their boards and gear are really well made. I just bought a 2009 Burton Deuce I found hiding on a clearance rack because it's one of my favorite rides of the last couple years. It rides like a Cadillc when most boards are trying to be a Corvette. 

But that's where Burton's market size gives them an advantage: they have the recources to make several styles of boards every year, for men and women. They may not be the best in any one category, but they'll be a reliable choice in *every* category.


----------



## Dano (Sep 16, 2009)

There are many reasons people hate on Burton, some legit, others not so much. 

1)The snowboard community is deeply rooted in punk, anti-establishment counterculture. That attitude with many of the passionate riders is still alive & well, and Burton is the big kid on the block. Making it the cool thing to do.

2)They have for the most part priced themselves out of the competitive market (relying on their reputation and R&D to sell their product), they've leaned towards brand exclusive products with ICS/est and 3 hole binding mounting, and they've made it hard for other smaller businesses in the past to gain footing on the market. These are the reasons many will say Burton has _sold out_. And in a way, they have. 

3) Brand loyalty. Ask anyone who rides a Victory, Suzuki, Yamaha, Honda, or custom chopper and they'll tell you Harley-Davidson "Fucking Sucks/Sold Out" etc. They will tell you it's because harley makes a shit product that costs way too much money for what you get. Harley riders will tell you it's because they are envious and wish they had a "real bike". (I ride a Victory because I love the style of my Hammer and I got a hell of a deal on it. But I have no hate for HD) 

Snowboarding is the same. Some people believe Burton is the only good product on snow and everything else is "cheap shit", and others believe Burton is charging WAY too much money for their top of the line equipment, and that they are doing too little to make their lower end, affordable gear, reliable and cutting edge. They will tell you, "I had a buddy who used his Cartels only once and they lit on fire causing an avalanche and complete extinction of the unicorn", I actually had a dude tell me he hates burton because he went through *5* brand new Burton boards in *one* season. I could believe it if he was a competing sponsored rider or got deals because he works in a board shop, but he doesn't. 

4) (This kills me to say because I ride Burton gear) Burton is one of the top indicators on the poser checklist. Not that eveyone who rides Burton is a poser, but a lot of douche bag fucks that believe what you wear, what you drive, and what you buy, determines social status, also ride a lot of Burton. And they falling leaf all over your line on their CX or Vapor after talking a ton of shit they can't back up over Jaggerbombs in the lodge.

Having said that, I ride Burton. It's available in the local shops, I started years ago on a burton deck, their gear hasn't given me a reason not to trust them, and they give a ton back to this sport I love. I am a rational person who can appreciate both sides of the argument, but at the end of the day I'm just gonna get out there and ride. I don't care if someone wants to call me a poser because they're more than welcome to follow me off that drop or kicker, I work full time to pay for my morgage, vehicle, bills, lift passes, and gear. But I don't have time to listen to a 14 year old kid tell me he doesn't respect Burton's business practices while he's wearing *NIKE*. 

Opinions are like an asshole, everyones got one and that's mine.


----------



## Extremo (Nov 6, 2008)

Because burton is percieved as a big corporate profit-making machine in a sport that has anti conformist origins. I mean all companies are profit making but burton just seems like the evil disingenuous empire that buys its way into contests and magazines and the olympics. Obviously other companies are doing it too but snowboarding should just be about enjoying the activity. It seems like burtons priority is to stay in front of the commercial pack of wolves profiting from the sport.


----------



## skatebanana101 (Dec 2, 2009)

burton makes quality stuff, but the company is so large, many think it tainted a bit, or not as "cool" as other newer, smaller companies that are run by riders in colorado or something.


----------



## Snowfox (Dec 26, 2009)

I really think the attitude has chilled on this forum. And usually the reason so many people are eager to throw other brands out there when someone new comes in is due to what's been said before: 
Most newbies have only heard of Burton since they have a huge market share and spend so much on advertising. A lot of people are just trying to show that there are other viable choices (your mileage may vary on if it's better or not) out there besides Burton. 

I'm not a huge fan of my Burton gloves though... :/


----------



## skatebanana101 (Dec 2, 2009)

Snowfox said:


> I really think the attitude has chilled on this forum. And usually the reason so many people are eager to throw other brands out there when someone new comes in is due to what's been said before:
> Most newbies have only heard of Burton since they have a huge market share and spend so much on advertising. A lot of people are just trying to show that there are other viable choices (your mileage may vary on if it's better or not) out there besides Burton.
> 
> I'm not a huge fan of my Burton gloves though... :/


i have a SICK pair of pants from burton. Generally their soft goods are excellent. What gloves do you have? i have a pair of their mittens and they have been really good


----------



## Snowfox (Dec 26, 2009)

skatebanana101 said:


> i have a SICK pair of pants from burton. Generally their soft goods are excellent. What gloves do you have? i have a pair of their mittens and they have been really good


I'll tell you the name once I have my gear up(down?) here. It is one of their cheaper lines, so it's not that surprising that it's not amazing. I have heard good things about their soft goods once you start getting farther up into their lineup. 
At the same time, one of my friends got me a random pair of gloves that seem to work better. Don't have those with me either, but I don't recall them being snowboarding specific...


----------



## Leo (Nov 24, 2009)

I am a loyal Burton outerwear user. Particularly, Shaun White's signature line of outerwear. I have 0 complaints about them even after my 2007 Jacket of the Gods started to fall apart this year. But hey, that jacket has been put through hell. It does have a lifetime warranty, but unfortunately I lost the receipt. I can only blame myself for that.

I also ride a 2007 Burton Shaun White. I have the 2008 Shaun White boots. Love both. Why am I bringing up that I use Shaun White's collection? Trust me, rocking Burton TWC stuff is a double whammy. Both Burton and SW are hated to no end and I'm supporting both. You know what though? I don't give two shits because the gear has been nothing but reliable. I still love my 07 board too. I hear so many complaints about lack of pop, edge hold, blah blah blah. My board gives me all of that and more. I hear complaints about jackets and pants not fitting well or being durable enough, but my outwear does all that.

The point is, no matter what gear you use, you're going to find haters. No matter how much steeze you have in your step, people are going to hate. Burton just gets the most hate mainly because it's the cool thing to do.

Here's a fact for you:

Burton is not a publicly traded company. It is still private owned by Jake Burton.

That's pretty fucking cool in my book. Do you know how much money could be had if Burton ever decided to go public? You'd expect a company of this size to be a corporation, but it's not.

There is no such thing as a perfect company. There is no such thing as a perfect board. Stop caring what others think and ride. By the way, I also rock Flows which is more to add to the hatred I receive.

As for ICS vs. Traditional:

I could go either way. If I'm on a Burton board, I'd actually prefer the ICS with EST bindings. I can't deny the feel of the system. Pure dampening underfoot and the flex is just different. The best way I can describe the flex is that it is more smooth. It's not game changing by any means, but if I had the choice, it would be the ICS. If my K2 Turbo Dream had an ICS option, I would choose it.

It's comparable to when you go to your favorite ice cream shop and they ran out of your flavor. Not a big deal since you probably have 50 other flavors that you like. ICS is nice, but it's not a big deal if I can't use it.


----------



## Puggy (Oct 7, 2010)

Just bought an 10' fix with some exiles... Love it, super soft and super adjustable... Not a market whore here, was looking a the banana and trice, but got a dirty deal on my boot and binding set, and I got a whore of a deal on some 32 boots with them. God Bless local shops! Good luck shopping, don't worry about what people think of the brands, just find your price range, get something comfortable together that you love, dial them up and shred it!


----------



## vote4pedro (Dec 28, 2009)

I think the"Burton riders are posers" mentality is misguided. Most people who buy Burton are new to snowboarding and that's the only brand they know. They're probably intimidated going into a board shop and might not trust the person they're talking to. For all they know, the guy at the shop might want to sell them some piece of crap to make a quick buck. So they go with what they know and buy a Burton board. There's nothing wrong with that. But with more people checking internet forums first, we can get them on better gear for the price.

Overall, Burton stuff is overpriced. I have a pair of Burton CO2 bindings and they're probably as good as just about any other binding out there. But I picked them up on clearance for 60% off. Which made them cheaper than the Rome Targas I was also looking at. I wouldn't have considered them at full price ($370). But I couldn't beat them for $150. For me, any purchase is based on quality, then price, then aesthetics. Personally, I don't care what logo happens to be plastered on there.


----------



## Nixtro21 (Dec 2, 2008)

I dont really have a personal problem with Burton, it just annoys me to see people rocking burton gear and acting like they are hot shit and pro snowboarders when they can barely ride down the mountain. 

That being said, I ride an 09 Burton Blunt 151 with Ride Delta bindings and i absolutely love the board, it has been through hell with me and is still going strong.


----------



## linvillegorge (Jul 6, 2009)

I agree with the "pay for the name" comment. Dollar for dollar, you can just get a lot better stuff from other companies. Burton makes a lot of crap on their lower end side, but makes some really good stuff on the higher end (albeit, with a royalty fee built in - something has to pay for all that marketing and Shaun White). 

For instance, even Burton haters for the most part have to admit that the Cartels are some of the best bindings out there.

But, I think the main reason that most dedicated riders hate Burton is that for non-core riders, everything snowboarding is Burton and Shaun White. There is always a backlash against mainstream popularity among core types.


----------



## Nose Press (Oct 10, 2010)

During the early years of my addiction (snowboarding), I was against burton, saying it was all about the name and advertising. But last season I was riding an old Rome board, when one of my buddies offered me to ride his new Burton Hero, and me being a non believer strapped in and took it for a ride. So i took it to the park, and lets just say I was very impressed. So impressed that I went and bought one during summer sell out in vail. So i feel you need to try the product before you start hating on it. They make some quality softgoods, but I they seem to be hyped too much, for what they actually are. Thats why i just rock 686, volcom, and special blend, who are focussed on one category of items.


----------



## linvillegorge (Jul 6, 2009)

Well, depending on how old that Rome board was, just about anything made within the last couple of years would have been a breath of fresh air.


----------



## Nose Press (Oct 10, 2010)

linvillegorge said:


> Well, depending on how old that Rome board was, just about anything made within the last couple of years would have been a breath of fresh air.


It was like 4 years old, so i guess your right, but that new burton hero is really something


----------



## Hurricane (Jan 5, 2010)

Buy what you like, who cares if someone else doesn't like your Burton they don't have to ride it. I'm personally more partial Ride and K2 but most of my gear and all of my bindings are Burton.


----------



## linvillegorge (Jul 6, 2009)

Hurricane said:


> Buy what you like, who cares if someone else doesn't like your Burton they don't have to ride it. I'm personally more partial Ride and K2 but most of my gear and all of my bindings are Burton.


This. 

Hell, if you're doing it right and not wearing skinny pants, 99% of people won't even realize what bindings you're riding.

That's why I've never cared if my bindings "match" my board. My board spends a lot more time strapped to my feet and my bindings covered with my pants and snow than it does propped up against the lodge. And yes, I do cover my highbacks with my pants. I don't care that people can't see my bindings, I don't want my bindings tugging at my pants.


----------



## Lstarrasl (Mar 26, 2010)

Burton is the Yankees of Snowboarding.


----------



## SnowMotion (Oct 8, 2010)

All companies make a good board burton just has resources no one else has so they have things like ICS and EST that keep them on top of the industry. but without them we would not have these wonderful things. (you should try the channel with EST bindings if you havnt already it rocks!)


----------



## imprezd (Sep 30, 2010)

I'm waiting for someone to say something to me when I hit the hill. I'm buying all new snowboard gear this year and everything i'm wearing to what i'm going to be riding will be burton. I've been snowboarding since I was 10. I'm 24 right now. The fact is people want to be unique. So let them. But why should they get bent out of shape because newbie riders trust one brand over others? 


That's the way it usually goes with anything in life. People tend to trust what is popular if they don't know much about what it is they're buying. What's wrong with that? That tells me something about the company that is making its gear. They make it good and its been consistent over the years. 

So I'm going all Burton and you may be better than me. Want a cookie? Stop hating and just ride your damn stick. I've earned all my money and what I do with it is up to me. I'm on the hill to simply enjoy what I love to do and that's snowboarding, not to snarl at others snowboarders for what gear they're rocking.


----------



## linvillegorge (Jul 6, 2009)

Butthurt, party of one, your table is ready..


----------



## WolfSnow (Oct 26, 2008)

Thanks guys, just picked up-
(2011) 152 Burton Hero 
(2011) L Burton Lexa EST (black gold)
(2011) 8.5 Burton Bootique (black/blue/multi)

I appreciate all the advice and comments a lot, I'm so stoked for winter.


----------



## imprezd (Sep 30, 2010)

linvillegorge said:


> Butthurt, party of one, your table is ready..


Not really. I'm just saying...


----------



## Leo (Nov 24, 2009)

WolfSnow said:


> Thanks guys, just picked up-
> (2011) 152 Burton Hero
> (2011) L Burton Lexa EST (black gold)
> (2011) 8.5 Burton Bootique (black/blue/multi)
> ...


Whoa whoa whoa... wait a minute... you're a chick???


----------



## Irish2685 (Dec 27, 2009)

I had the same exact reaction.


----------



## mallrat (Oct 27, 2009)

WolfSnow said:


> Thanks guys, just picked up-
> (2011) 152 Burton Hero
> (2011) L Burton Lexa EST (black gold)
> (2011) 8.5 Burton Bootique (black/blue/multi)
> ...


FWIW, I wear a men's 8.5 and a medium bindings are perfect for me.

Back to Burton, I was never a Burton fanboy but having worked in shops for years I knew that their mid-level to high end stuff was quality. I owned a few back in the mid 90's and had no complaints but didn't love it. Last year I picked up an 09 UnInc 159 and I just love it. Traditionally I like a softer board, but for bombing around the mountain it rules and the ICS adjustability is very nice. Plus picked up the board and a set of Cartels for $389.


----------



## vote4pedro (Dec 28, 2009)

mallrat said:


> FWIW, I wear a men's 8.5 and a medium bindings are perfect for me.


Those are women's boots and bindings. She's borderline between medium and large.


----------



## mickyg (Feb 2, 2010)

Well from my own noob experience last year I can say that a big reason why Burton do so well in the beginner market us because they have a great website.

When I decided to buy a board for the first time I went to Burton because it was recognisable and it would give me a general idea of things. Their website lets you put in your stats, riding style, level of experience, preferences etc and then it spits out all the relevant boards for you. It was awesome.

Other sites, on the other hand, just list all their boards with hundreds of unrecognisable features and specifications, which noobs quickly become overwhelmed by. I found myself going back to the Burton website again and again, just because it was so user friendly for new riders. I almost pulled the trigger on a Joystick too, before I finally settled on a Ride Machete.

So maybe other brands should cater more to new riders and make their information more easily digestible? really, it could be as easy as simply splitting up their boards on their site into levels of experience, or something.

Anyway, I don't have a problem with Burton, except they are slightly more expensive than the competition on average. I'd still love a Joystick...


----------



## Snowfox (Dec 26, 2009)

Leo said:


> Whoa whoa whoa... wait a minute... you're a chick???



OMG PIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIICS! 

And to be honest, if you're in between pairs on the bindings, I'd go larger rather than smaller. Went with the smaller with some Rome Uniteds and that was a pain in the ass (besides the fact they broke too...)

Sounds like a good setup though, you should have fun this winter.


----------



## snajper69 (Jan 4, 2010)

mickyg said:


> Well from my own noob experience last year I can say that a big reason why Burton do so well in the beginner market us because they have a great website.
> 
> When I decided to buy a board for the first time I went to Burton because it was recognisable and it would give me a general idea of things. Their website lets you put in your stats, riding style, level of experience, preferences etc and then it spits out all the relevant boards for you. It was awesome.
> 
> ...


+1 comparing other websites to Burton they got their site just right. It's just user friendly. 
My firest year of snowboarding I went with Burton because it was easier to figure it out what to get, my second all my gears are Rome lol.


----------



## Nixon (Oct 10, 2010)

Buck Ferton


----------



## WolfSnow (Oct 26, 2008)

-ignore-
........


----------



## WolfSnow (Oct 26, 2008)

Leo said:


> Whoa whoa whoa... wait a minute... you're a chick???


Do you have a problem with that?

Irish2685- I had the same exact reaction. 

I don't see why.

Snowfox- OMG PIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIICS! 

I would call you a pervert, but to be fair, you didn't know I was 13. 

__

Yeah, they gave me the large bindings, they still fit fine.


----------



## Snowfox (Dec 26, 2009)

WolfSnow said:


> Do you have a problem with that?
> 
> Irish2685- I had the same exact reaction.
> 
> ...


Haha, I'm just confused as to why it's ok to say that if you were of age. 
By the way, you picked board size off of weight and not height right (with a little room to grow)?


----------



## Leo (Nov 24, 2009)

WolfSnow said:


> Do you have a problem with that?
> 
> Irish2685- I had the same exact reaction.
> 
> ...


Calm down little girl. I have no problem with that. It's just that I thought you were a guy this entire time.


----------



## WolfSnow (Oct 26, 2008)

Not at all. My old board was a 153, I got that 2 years ago. This year I got a 152 but I've pretty much stopped growing now. I'm around 5'6 or 5'7 soooo. Pretty tall compared to most of my friends. 
It's based off both really. The guys that helped kit me out we're really professional. At this sale, the guys put me in a size 11 boot. The people from the store I ended up getting it from, I was a 8.5- so much differance.

Leo- I didn't mean it in a serious way. A lot of people think I'm a guy online, and they used to in real life. The people in my class say I should start 'acting like my gender' which is stupid because I don't care if I break a nail /endrant.


----------



## HoboMaster (May 16, 2010)

Nixon said:


> Buck Ferton


Wow, that's hilarious.

You can't blame us for driving people away from Burton gear. In almost any Dollar to Quality comparison with other manufacturers you will find that Burton is simply overpriced for what your getting and it's because they are a multi-national conglomerate who are the biggest kids on the block. 

Do they make crap gear? No, some of it is rather sub-par but they are still the biggest snowboarding company in the world for a reason. A lot of their higher-end stuff is really great. The reality however is that Burton doesn't have problems selling gear. These smaller companies who don't have millions to spend on advertising, press, and sponsorships do however, and they are coming out with shit that rivals or is maybe better then Burton. By supporting the little guys and giving Burton competition, you ensure that the snowboarding industry advances rather then stagnates. Burton would be happy to manufacture snowboards with 1995 tech if they could get away with it, alas they have to be competitive and come up with new and exciting designs that make snowboarding better.

That's how I look at it anyways.


----------



## Nixon (Oct 10, 2010)

HoboMaster said:


> Wow, that's hilarious.


I only posted this for the fact that board is better then most Burton's, and costs a hell of a lot less.

Sorry I couldnt tell if that was sarcasm... :|


----------



## HoboMaster (May 16, 2010)

It actually wasn't for once.


----------



## Nixon (Oct 10, 2010)

Oh, I see :3

Yeah, Smokin' makes delicious boards.


----------



## UNDERGROUND6T9 (Oct 18, 2010)

Last year I rocked a Forum board with DC and Grenade gear. This year im going with Burton custon ics and est bindings with thirty two boots. Im also rocking all burton gear, I went with burton because I wanted to go with a certain style/look. As far as quality goes I can hnestly says I don't really see any difference frm my pevious gear. I dosn't matter what you rock as long as you are comfortable with what you have. Just my two cents.


----------



## mallrat (Oct 27, 2009)

HoboMaster said:


> Wow, that's hilarious.
> 
> You can't blame us for driving people away from Burton gear. *In almost any Dollar to Quality comparison with other manufacturers you will find that Burton is simply overpriced for what your getting and it's because they are a multi-national conglomerate who are the biggest kids on the block. *Do they make crap gear? No, some of it is rather sub-par but they are still the biggest snowboarding company in the world for a reason. A lot of their higher-end stuff is really great. The reality however is that Burton doesn't have problems selling gear. These smaller companies who don't have millions to spend on advertising, press, and sponsorships do however, and they are coming out with shit that rivals or is maybe better then Burton. *By supporting the little guys and giving Burton competition, you ensure that the snowboarding industry advances rather then stagnates*. *Burton would be happy to manufacture snowboards with 1995 tech if they could get away with it, alas they have to be competitive and come up with new and exciting designs that make snowboarding better.*That's how I look at it anyways.


A. What data do you have to back up that statement? Have you worked in a shop and seen an exceptional amount of Burton returns? Have you done repeated scientific experiments and tests and Burton products have performed worse? Be honest, you are pulling that out of your ass based on opinion.

B. Do you understand what a multi-national conglomerate is? Because if you did, you would know Burton isn't one. It is still a privately owned company.

C. Who you buy from has doesn't determine how the industry advances. You also have no clue what Burton spends on R&D and how long they've been working on certain products/advances. In fact the counter could be argued that other companies come with with changes to draw in buyers before the technology is perfected. Whereas a company like Burton is going to hold off on the technology until they do it right to ensure they don't leave a blackmark on their reputation.

Now I'm not trying to attack you just open up your perspective. You are entitled to your opinion and I respect that. Just hoping to throw some facts out there.


----------



## HoboMaster (May 16, 2010)

You're right, I don't have any number figures to back up my claims. And no they are not a multinational conglomerate, I merely used the term to portray that they they are a huge corporation who buys and owns separate companies and sells goods all over the world.

I just simply don't buy into the ideology that if we keep supporting the mega-companies and allow them to butt out the competition industry standards aren't going to change. When a company achieves the status of a monopoly, they are essentially allowed to offer substandard products and unfair prices because there are no other truly competitive outlets.

A free competitive market is what democracy aims to achieve, by making companies compete the consumer wins. Sadly it doesn't work that way anymore because of a huge lack of regulation on mega-corporations. In the end McDonalds wins and your tax money pays for huge food subsides that allow them to offer such low prices for meat.


----------



## Lstarrasl (Mar 26, 2010)

UNDERGROUND6T9 said:


> Last year I rocked a Forum board with DC and Grenade gear. This year im going with Burton custon ics and est bindings with thirty two boots. Im also rocking all burton gear, I went with burton because I wanted to go with a certain style/look. As far as quality goes I can hnestly says I don't really see any difference frm my pevious gear. I dosn't matter what you rock as long as you are comfortable with what you have. Just my two cents.


Rep your state! Lib, Ride or Gnu.


----------



## Qball (Jun 22, 2010)

I did the board finder on the Burton website just for kicks, and they recommended a board length that is between my nose and chin....fail.


----------



## mickyg (Feb 2, 2010)

Qball said:


> I did the board finder on the Burton website just for kicks, and they recommended a board length that is between my nose and chin....fail.


I thought it was pretty agreed upon nowadays that weight is more significant than height for a board length?

How tall are you, and how much do you weigh? Is it a park or powder board? How about a few details rather than a great big 'Burton Fail'...


----------



## Qball (Jun 22, 2010)

mickyg said:


> I thought it was pretty agreed upon nowadays that weight is more significant than height for a board length?
> 
> How tall are you, and how much do you weigh? Is it a park or powder board? How about a few details rather than a great big 'Burton Fail'...


No. That's what the Burton website said was the reason for recommending the size they did. Take your lecture somewhere else.


----------



## SPAZ (May 2, 2009)

Interesting thread. I think that a lot of the explanations here are rational. With their cheep stuff (i'm talking Burton Blunt, Custom Bindings, Moto boots, etc.) You get cheep shit with lower quality, but their R&D is the best in the industry (with the exception of Never Summers R&C Tech). Its a sacrifice of quality for technology, in my opinion. I *used* to ride some Burton gear, but have stopped because I have seen that there is better stuff out there for the money.


----------



## mickyg (Feb 2, 2010)

Qball said:


> No. That's what the Burton website said was the reason for recommending the size they did. Take your lecture somewhere else.


You are being sarcastic, right?

I choose to believe that is the case, simply because the alternative involves once again lowering my expectation for the human race.


----------



## Qball (Jun 22, 2010)

Jeeze dude, work on your reading comprehension.

I went to the Burton website and did the board finder, just because i was bored. I filled then out all the info and it came up with some boards. Next I clicked the link that said "Learn why these boards are right for you." For size it said "It's all a matter of preference, but in general a board length somewhere between your chin and nose is a solid choice." This is not a good way to go about choosing the size of your snowboard and you would think a company like Burton would know that.


----------



## Snowfox (Dec 26, 2009)

Qball said:


> Jeeze dude, work on your reading comprehension.
> 
> I went to the Burton website and did the board finder, just because i was bored. I filled then out all the info and it came up with some boards. Next I clicked the link that said "Learn why these boards are right for you." For size it said "It's all a matter of preference, but in general a board length somewhere between your chin and nose is a solid choice." This is not a good way to go about choosing the size of your snowboard and you would think a company like Burton would know that.


But we're already making Americans convert to metric for the snowboarding lengths... why make them work any harder? 

And we wouldn't want them to have to weigh themselves and admit that they're fat...


----------



## mickyg (Feb 2, 2010)

Qball said:


> Jeeze dude, work on your reading comprehension.
> 
> I went to the Burton website and did the board finder, just because i was bored. I filled then out all the info and it came up with some boards. Next I clicked the link that said "Learn why these boards are right for you." For size it said "It's all a matter of preference, but in general a board length somewhere between your chin and nose is a solid choice." This is not a good way to go about choosing the size of your snowboard and you would think a company like Burton would know that.


Ahh, so you are saying that Burton shouldn't be recommending board sizes based on height, and that they should know better?

To be honest your post and subsequent replies aren't really clear. If that is the case, then you're right.

But even though it says that, surely the board finder would still take your weight into account since you have to specifically enter it in?


----------



## Qball (Jun 22, 2010)

Oh i guess i could have been more clear.

But yeah I'm sure they do take weight into account, but by saying length should be between your chin and nose, they are going to confuse a lot of people. It's going to misinform a lot of beginners that don't know any better, and they could end up with a board that doesn't fit them.


----------



## mickyg (Feb 2, 2010)

Qball said:


> Oh i guess i could have been more clear.
> 
> But yeah I'm sure they do take weight into account, but by saying length should be between your chin and nose, they are going to confuse a lot of people. It's going to misinform a lot of beginners that don't know any better, and they could end up with a board that doesn't fit them.


And I guess I didn't need to jump the gun.

We are in agreement, good sir!


----------



## Leo (Nov 24, 2009)

Actually, as putrid as it is for me to say this, speaking very generally... The board will fall between your chin and nose. I mean very general as in normal height to weight ratio.

You have to remember, Burton is the biggest brand for newbies. 90% of new riders don't want to bother researching the size thing. Burton is catering to that. Is it the best thing in the world to do? Heck no. But from a pure business stand-point, it makes perfect sense to make that general recommendation.

I've talked to Burton reps several times. If you ask sizing questions, they give you normal advice by factoring your weight into it. Also, they have weight ranges on their boards so it shows that they actually do factor weight into it. To me, this is further evidence that the sizing rec on their site is just a business move.

By the way, Burton is not a corporation. Corporations are a separate entity and have the same rights as a normal person. I always thought that to be an absurd law, but whatever. If anything happens to Burton, Jake Burton will be held liable.

As for the quality argument, their entry level gear is no worse or better than most other companies. However, it's the pricing of their entry level boards that makes the difference. They are more expensive than the other brands' entry level boards. I much rather buy a K2 Anagram than a Burton Clash. In terms of board quality, they are on the same level, but the K2 Anagram costs $30 less.

That's the thing though. Burton products actually aren't that overpriced. I mean, $30 is subjectively negligible. I believe it's just harder for people to stomach an extra $30 when you get into the higher tiers of snowboards. Let's look at two similar boards as an example here:

Burton Custom Flying V - $529

Rome Agent Rocker - $499

Again that's a $30 difference.

Now let's look at some high-end boards. The Zero is K2's highest end board at $699. Weight-wise, it is a little heavier than the Vapor (2010 models). I believe around 11oz. So people would be inclined to compare it to the Vapor and that makes Burton seem really expensive. Personally, tech-wise, I compare it to the Burton Custom X which is actually cheaper than the Zero at $649. In reality, I would place the Zero above the Custom X and below the Vapor, but being closer to the Cus X than the Vapor.

Sorry, I got highly technical here, but I just wanted to get the point across that a lot of these "Burton is overpriced" comments are a little misguided. However, I do think without a doubt that some of their bindings are overpriced:

2011 Burton Restricted Malavita EST - $289

2011 Rome 390 Boss - $229

I won't even get into the c02 and c60. The only binding that competes with those things is the Flow 24 real :laugh:

Of course, all of the above pricing concerns fall apart when stuff goes on sale. Remember when I said I think it is more of a factor of an additional $30 being harder to stomach at higher prices? Well, when end-of-season discounts go into play, that $30 difference becomes less.

Custom Fly V at 40% off (max discount) - $317

Rome Agent at 40% off - $299

There you go. Some facts about their pricing. As for their business practices... I'm not going to argue that since there really is not much to defend in that department :laugh:


----------



## mallrat (Oct 27, 2009)

Side note... Burton actually is a corporation. I can't find if it's an S Corp, C Corp or llc but I have a feeling it's and S Corp.


----------



## mickyg (Feb 2, 2010)

I was in Evo the other day and they had a Burton boot there and it was like $650... No idea what it was but looking online I think it was the SLX.

I have noticed that Burton do have some crazy high end expensive gear. Are these ultra high tech things worth it? Or are they mainly for rich posers?


----------



## Leo (Nov 24, 2009)

mickyg said:


> I was in Evo the other day and they had a Burton boot there and it was like $650... No idea what it was but looking online I think it was the SLX.
> 
> I have noticed that Burton do have some crazy high end expensive gear. Are these ultra high tech things worth it? Or are they mainly for rich posers?


Just because Burton has crazy expensive gear, doesn't mean they are crazy expensive in general. All that means is that they offer really high end products.

Whether it is worth it or not is up to you. Rest assured, they do a ton of R&D on these products. Look at the Method. That board has some exotic materials in it. None of that is cheap hence the high price to the consumer. Is all that tech needed? Nope.

Ask yourself this... why buy a Ferrari if you can get a Corvette ZR1? The ZR1 is faster or as fast as most Ferraris, but is significantly cheaper.


----------



## mickyg (Feb 2, 2010)

Leo said:


> Just because Burton has crazy expensive gear, doesn't mean they are crazy expensive in general. All that means is that they offer really high end products.
> 
> Whether it is worth it or not is up to you. Rest assured, they do a ton of R&D on these products. Look at the Method. That board has some exotic materials in it. None of that is cheap hence the high price to the consumer. Is all that tech needed? Nope.
> 
> Ask yourself this... why buy a Ferrari if you can get a Corvette ZR1? The ZR1 is faster or as fast as most Ferraris, but is significantly cheaper.


Don't misunderstand me, I wasn't using it as an example to bash their pricing.

I should have said:

Aside from the regular gear, I have noticed that Burton also make some super high-end, high tech gear with very high price tags. Does anyone have any experience with these, and are they worth the extra money over the cheaper and more low-tech alternatives?


----------



## Leo (Nov 24, 2009)

mickyg said:


> Don't misunderstand me, I wasn't using it as an example to bash their pricing.
> 
> I should have said:
> 
> Aside from the regular gear, I have noticed that Burton also make some super high-end, high tech gear with very high price tags. Does anyone have any experience with these, and are they worth the extra money over the cheaper and more low-tech alternatives?


Nobody can answer that for you. They certainly have the exotic materials for the cost though. Whether or not it's worth it is entirely up to you.


----------



## mickyg (Feb 2, 2010)

Leo said:


> Nobody can answer that for you. They certainly have the exotic materials for the cost though. Whether or not it's worth it is entirely up to you.


But when you go from a $250 board to a $500 board there is normally a quantifiable increase in quality, tech, performance and other measurable things.

I guess I'm just curious if the same can be said when comparing a $500 board to a $1000 one, or if there is a law if diminishing returns happening here.


----------



## Extremo (Nov 6, 2008)

Burton sucks in so many ways we could never really cover it here. That's why this debate is visited every season and goes on forever. So let's just accept that they blow and move on.


----------



## snajper69 (Jan 4, 2010)

I am pretty sure Burton is incorporated, the only difference is not publicly traded corporation it's a privately held .


----------



## Leo (Nov 24, 2009)

snajper69 said:


> I am pretty sure Burton is incorporated, the only difference is not publicly traded corporation it's a privately held .


Yea, that's right. Just not publicly 

Nice look.







By the way, Lord Extremo has spoken. Thread is OVA!


----------



## mallrat (Oct 27, 2009)

Extremo said:


> Burton sucks in so many ways we could never really cover it here. That's why this debate is visited every season and goes on forever. So let's just accept that they blow and move on.


That's why you still see guys/girls out there riding there boards from 94/95?


----------



## Extremo (Nov 6, 2008)

mallrat said:


> That's why you still see guys/girls out there riding there boards from 94/95?


If I still had my Burton Elite I'd still be riding it.


----------



## Leo (Nov 24, 2009)

Extremo said:


> If I still had my Burton Elite I'd still be riding it.


Rare Extremo moment right there.


----------



## Sasho (Jul 14, 2010)

I'm a happy Burton soft stuff user. My snowboarding jackets and pants from teh last 2 seasons were Burton and My snowboarding boots are still Burton Ruler (and I love them). My pants started leakign after 2 seasons of riding and I decided to buy a new pair, so I was doing my research in the last weeks trying to get new snowboarding pants. Of course Burton was between my first targets as I rode Burton in the last 2 seasons and while not extremely happy with them (during my second season they started leaking, but they have seen some serious usage till then), they still were OK pants.
Here is a little comparison between the low end Burton pants and low end The North Face pants:
............... Burton TNF
Price tag:..... 110$ 113$
Waterproofness: 5K ~18K
Breathability:. 5K ~18K

Burton high end stuff and TNF high end stuff (talking strictly snowboarding pants here)comparison in few words: Burton's high end non-goretex gear is approximately 50$ cheaper than The North Face high end gear but when we check the stats the comparison seems kinda silly: Burton's have 15k/15k breatability/waterproofness (TNF low end gear is 18k/18k - they don't have less) while HyVent Alpha is like 50k. 
I checked some other brands and roughly Burton low end gear have same price as 686 mid-line gear. So generally when it comes to soft goods Burton sucks. Never ridden a Burton board so can't compare them.

I suppose comparing Burton to The North Face is not exactly good comparison when it comes to extreme condition clothes, but they are "the biggest kid in the block" and should compare with the biggest kids from around the area.
So for me they suck and I'm not going to buy new snowboarding clothes from them anytime soon.

Just my 2 cents


----------



## HoboMaster (May 16, 2010)

> I'm a happy Burton soft stuff user


. 


> So for me they suck and I'm not going to buy new snowboarding clothes from them anytime soon.


You're contradicting yourself bro, that statement makes no sense. I also have used a Burton Pants/Jacket combo for about 2 years. The stuff I bought was clearance so I've been relatively happy with both pieces, though the waterproofing isn't the best ever. I waterproofed the shit out of mine a few weeks ago so hopefully that will make a difference seeing as how they have been used a lot.

Anyways, Burton does make decent stuff, but I'd rather support someone else, considering I can get someone else's product typically for cheaper as well.


----------



## vote4pedro (Dec 28, 2009)

mpdsnowman said:


> The only thing Burton really does have that other mfg's dont is the "monkey on the shoulder" because they in fact were the creator of the snowboard.


Common misperception. The first snowboard is generally considered the Brunswick Snurfer. Burton did a lot to advance snowboard technology, but Jack Burton did not invent the snowboard.


----------



## lilfoot1598 (Mar 7, 2009)

WolfSnow said:


> Do you have a problem with that?
> 
> Irish2685- I had the same exact reaction.
> 
> I don't see why.


Chill out. It's just that chicks on this forum are few and far between. Unless a new user readily identifies herself as a chick (saying so, profile pic, etc.), the assumption is that the newb is male. A little infusion of estrogen is always nice, so welcome.


----------



## extra0 (Jan 16, 2010)

as I type this, I'm wearing a burton dryride hoodie (got it for a rediculously low price). It's good, but that's all I own from them. 

I kinda see burton as the microsoft of the snowboard world...but, unlike operating systems, I have a massive amount of equal (if not better) choices in snowboard equipment. I chose to buy a differet brand(s) and am very happy with what I have right now.


----------

