# New boots and foot pain (correct mondo size)



## woodhouse (Jan 18, 2013)

To start off my boot size was determined after taking measurements (length and width) as per wiredsports boot thread, so im confident that the is right
I'm riding in a pair of 2017 burton almightys that were heat molded prior to use
Today was my 1st of 3 days of riding in killington vt, and both of my big toes were very painful throughout the day, to the point that when I took my boots off I could have sworn they were both going to be black and blue (that was not the case tho) This pain lasted all day to the point where I didnt want to go up for the final run. 

Is this just part of the boot break in process when buying your proper boot size?

I ride regular and also had an issue with pain on my left (lead) foot on the outside of my foot near the center, and pain in my right foot but on the inside center of the foot.
This pain was not constant but the toe pain was. 
I do have relatively low arches, I'm not sure if I should be looking at an insert to fix part of this. 

Being away in killington I also have the option of looking for a boot fitter (not easily found at home). But its hard to decipher who actually knows what they are talking about, also if it needs adjustment I live 5 hours from here.

I attached a picture of where the pain is, sorry for the long post, just want to be comfortable on the mountain


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## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

Its part of the break-in process...in part you need to let the heel and ankle pockets pack/form and make sure that you have the inter-laces tightened up...but also try some proper fitting aftermarket insoles.


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## speedjason (May 2, 2013)

Yes and no.
If your feet is skinny especially the ankles, it's possible your ankle is not exactly in the heel pocket usually too low.
When that happens, the boot will try to shove your feet too far forward.
I find by adding some material to the heel and a better footbed if you have flat feet, will allow better fitting around the heels and well as allowing the instep to be at the correct height to keep your feet from sliding forward.
The pain you are having is due to the muscles on the bottom of your feet stretching because of lack of arch support.


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

woodhouse said:


> To start off my boot size was determined after taking measurements (length and width) as per wiredsports boot thread, so im confident that the is right
> I'm riding in a pair of 2017 burton almightys that were heat molded prior to use



Hi Woodhouse,

Please post up your barefoot measurements for each foot length and width and please let us know your current boot size.

STOKED!


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## woodhouse (Jan 18, 2013)

Wiredsport said:


> woodhouse said:
> 
> 
> > To start off my boot size was determined after taking measurements (length and width) as per wiredsports boot thread, so im confident that the is right
> ...


I did already, i was advised normal width size 11, it's in the thread, im just on my phone so its a pain to find.


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

woodhouse said:


> I did already, i was advised normal width size 11, it's in the thread, im just on my phone so its a pain to find.


Please do post a link to that when you find it. Let's review that first.

STOKED!


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## woodhouse (Jan 18, 2013)

28.9 length, 10.16cm widest point


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## woodhouse (Jan 18, 2013)

At a boot fitter in killington about to try try some heat molded boot doc insoles


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## woodhouse (Jan 18, 2013)

The toe pain is my biggest concern right now, hoping these just need to break in


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## speedjason (May 2, 2013)

woodhouse said:


> The toe pain is my biggest concern right now, hoping these just need to break in


What's causing the pain? Are they rammed firmly into the front of the boots?


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## woodhouse (Jan 18, 2013)

speedjason said:


> woodhouse said:
> 
> 
> > The toe pain is my biggest concern right now, hoping these just need to break in
> ...


Yes, big toe on each foot only, it is slightly better today, which makes me think it's just part of the break in. 
I'm going back to the boot fitter after today and I'm going to mold up the bootdoc low/mid insoles. 
My buddy got it in his ski boot and said it's night and day.


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## speedjason (May 2, 2013)

woodhouse said:


> Yes, big toe on each foot only, it is slightly better today, which makes me think it's just part of the break in.
> I'm going back to the boot fitter after today and I'm going to mold up the bootdoc low/mid insoles.
> My buddy got it in his ski boot and said it's night and day.


Yes, I got my new boots fitted and man they are so comfortable and no heel lift.
My heels are skinny so they don't stay in the heel pocket tightly. By adding some padding under my heels really helped the heel lift. Also a better fitted insole lifts my skinny feet up in the boots so the instep is keeping my feet from moving front to back in the boots.
Boot fitting really is important.


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

woodhouse said:


> 28.9 length, 10.16cm widest point


Hi Woodhouse,

You are an easy fit (Mid range for length and width) in Mondopoint 290 or size 11 US. Have you had your heat fit done? What are you wearing for socks?

STOKED!


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## woodhouse (Jan 18, 2013)

Wiredsport said:


> woodhouse said:
> 
> 
> > 28.9 length, 10.16cm widest point
> ...


Yes they have been heat fitted, wearing smart wool phd snowboard socks.... Will be trying out some insoles today


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

woodhouse said:


> Yes they have been heat fitted, wearing smart wool phd snowboard socks.... Will be trying out some insoles today


Hi,

Snowboard boots Stretch about 1 full size over the first few weekends of riding. After that time you will likely wish you had back some of the old snugness. 

Insoles can be fine if they work well with the boot and with the foot but they can also take you in the wrong direction. I would wait until after break in to change anything. 

STOKED!


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## woodhouse (Jan 18, 2013)

Wiredsport said:


> Hi,
> 
> Snowboard boots Stretch about 1 full size over the first few weekends of riding. After that time you will likely wish you had back some of the old snugness.
> 
> ...


Ok, Im back on the factory burton almighty insoles.... I know the boot will pack out which is why I am not worried about the toe pain.

The pain on the inside and outside of my arch is a different story, its preventing me from finishing out that day. Seems so many of my buddies have zero foot pain, and they arent on the forums and just buy whatever is comfy in the store. Hopefully I can figure this out, foot pain really sucks.


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## SlvrDragon50 (Mar 25, 2017)

speedjason said:


> Yes, I got my new boots fitted and man they are so comfortable and no heel lift.
> My heels are skinny so they don't stay in the heel pocket tightly. By adding some padding under my heels really helped the heel lift. Also a better fitted insole lifts my skinny feet up in the boots so the instep is keeping my feet from moving front to back in the boots.
> Boot fitting really is important.


Did you get custom insoles or just off the shelf and cut to fit? Got some $50 SOLE insoles, and they're quite comfy now. Wasn't sure if it was worth the extra $50 to get true customs.


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## speedjason (May 2, 2013)

SlvrDragon50 said:


> Did you get custom insoles or just off the shelf and cut to fit? Got some $50 SOLE insoles, and they're quite comfy now. Wasn't sure if it was worth the extra $50 to get true customs.


The boot fitter just used off the shelf stuff and cut to fit.
He looked at my feet and added needed material to my boots and it was day and night difference.
Before the boot fitter, my heels were sitting too low causing pressure points on my ankle bone causing blisters.
Because the heels were too low, the boots were trying to push my feet agains the front it was pretty bad.
After correction, everything is in the right places and now I can ride all day without any pain or heel lift.


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## SlvrDragon50 (Mar 25, 2017)

speedjason said:


> The boot fitter just used off the shelf stuff and cut to fit.
> He looked at my feet and added needed material to my boots and it was day and night difference.
> Before the boot fitter, my heels were sitting too low causing pressure points on my ankle bone causing blisters.
> Because the heels were too low, the boots were trying to push my feet agains the front it was pretty bad.
> After correction, everything is in the right places and now I can ride all day without any pain or heel lift.


Ah sweet! Yea I have X-bars and a heel wedge in my boots, and it's an awesome fit, but I sometimes still get heel lift in my right foot. That said, we knowingly got a boot that was a half-size too large.

Definitely gonna buy the right size boot next year, but it's so hard for me to get boots in store since I need wide boots.


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## woodhouse (Jan 18, 2013)

Just rode again today.

Today marks day #4 on these boots, the pain gets unbearable at the end of the day causing me to end the day early which is driving me absolutely crazy. 

I was in agony at the end of the day just waking back to the cabin in these. 

Both of my big toes were throbbing, and still hurt a little now, after being out of the boots for almost 8 hours. 

How long does break in normally take?

Is it so bad that you normally can't finish days?


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## SlvrDragon50 (Mar 25, 2017)

woodhouse said:


> Just rode again today.
> 
> Today marks day #4 on these boots, the pain gets unbearable at the end of the day causing me to end the day early which is driving me absolutely crazy.
> 
> ...


Takes more than 4 days for me. Are you taking any breaks during the day? I usually have to loosen my boots every 5-6 runs to give them a break.


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

Hi,

Break in take about two weeks of riding but pain is never normal. We should get a look at your barefoot measurements being taken (both length and width for each foot). We should also get a look at the boot label (inside the boot).

Based on the measurements provided you are very easy fit in your current size. What you are reporting typically occurs in boots that are too large (where there is motion) so let's have a look and see what we can.

Please post up images.

STOKED!


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## woodhouse (Jan 18, 2013)

Wiredsport said:


> Hi,
> 
> Break in take about two weeks of riding but pain is never normal. We should get a look at your barefoot measurements being taken (both length and width for each foot). We should also get a look at the boot label (inside the boot).
> 
> ...


here ya go

*Left Foot:
*

*Right foot:
*

*Width of foot from widest points, they were the same for both:
*

*Standing on the insole:
*

*Inside of boot:
*


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## speedjason (May 2, 2013)

It does seem like you have pretty skinny instep and low arches.
Are your feet moving in the boots front to back?
Like if you kick your heels all the way are the toes pushing against the boots?
I think you need some support under the heels because if your feet are moving front to back in the boots it means there is not enough instead height to keep your feet from moving.
Boots can break in but if your feet are moving, it doesn't matter.


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

Hi,

Your length measurement is taken correctly and your foot is in the (5 mm) range for Mondopoint 290. You are at the lowest side of the range (just a hair above Mondopoint 285 or size 10.5 US). Your overhang of the insert is as expected for a foot that is at the smaller side of the range. 

I would still like to see your width measurements using our method below. For width please place the inside (medial side) of your foot against a wall. Please then measure from the wall out to the widest point on the lateral (outside) of your foot.

STOKED!


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## woodhouse (Jan 18, 2013)

Wiredsport said:


> Hi,
> 
> Your length measurement is taken correctly and your foot is in the (5 mm) range for Mondopoint 290. You are at the lowest side of the range (just a hair above Mondopoint 285 or size 10.5 US). Your overhang of the insert is as expected for a foot that is at the smaller side of the range.
> 
> ...


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## woodhouse (Jan 18, 2013)

speedjason said:


> It does seem like you have pretty skinny instep and low arches.
> Are your feet moving in the boots front to back?
> Like if you kick your heels all the way are the toes pushing against the boots?
> I think you need some support under the heels because if your feet are moving front to back in the boots it means there is not enough instead height to keep your feet from moving.
> Boots can break in but if your feet are moving, it doesn't matter.


Yeah even if I kick my feet to the heel of the foot, my toes still touch the front, the only relief I get is if I bend my big toe to pull it away from the front of the boot, but I can only do this on the lift or while im not moving.

I was reading a ton on the forum, someone else said building up the heel helped them a ton, I dont have any experienced boot fitters where I live, so im solely relying on this forum for guidance.


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## speedjason (May 2, 2013)

woodhouse said:


> Yeah even if I kick my feet to the heel of the foot, my toes still touch the front, the only relief I get is if I bend my big toe to pull it away from the front of the boot, but I can only do this on the lift or while im not moving.
> 
> I was reading a ton on the forum, someone else said building up the heel helped them a ton, I dont have any experienced boot fitters where I live, so im solely relying on this forum for guidance.


I had my boots fitted by a boot fitter because my toes were rammed into the front hard. He simply added a quarter inch foam wedge between the liner and the boot and then replaced the insole with something more volume. Now my instep is correct and my heels are in the right place also pulled my toes back from the front of the boots. No more cramping when I put my boots on anymore.


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

woodhouse said:


> Yeah even if I kick my feet to the heel of the foot, my toes still touch the front, the only relief I get is if I bend my big toe to pull it away from the front of the boot, but I can only do this on the lift or while im not moving.
> 
> I was reading a ton on the forum, someone else said building up the heel helped them a ton, I dont have any experienced boot fitters where I live, so im solely relying on this forum for guidance.


Hi Woodhouse,

You are a B width which is a very narrow size. Men's snowboard boots (except for the handful of wide options) are produced for D width so you are two full width sizes narrow for your boots (all women's boots are actually produced at B width but you will not find a set in your size as you would be a 12 women's). No brands produce boots specifically for narrow feet.

Your situation is that you are the very smallest length size in your Mondopoint range but you are two width sizes too small for your boots. This has your foot working really hard to stabilize itself in a boot that is too large. As there are no production options available to you I would strongly suggest that you find a good boot fitter. 

STOKED!


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

woodhouse said:


> Yeah even if I kick my feet to the heel of the foot, my toes still touch the front, the only relief I get is if I bend my big toe to pull it away from the front of the boot, but I can only do this on the lift or while im not moving.


May be a silly question... but did you clip your nais? Toes touching the front of boot isn't hurting as much if the flesh of toe is rammed onto liner whereas if the toe nails are? Ouch...


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## woodhouse (Jan 18, 2013)

speedjason said:


> I had my boots fitted by a boot fitter because my toes were rammed into the front hard. He simply added a quarter inch foam wedge between the liner and the boot and then replaced the insole with something more volume. Now my instep is correct and my heels are in the right place also pulled my toes back from the front of the boots. No more cramping when I put my boots on anymore.


I have no boot fitters in my area, do you have a picture of this foam wedge that was used?



Wiredsport said:


> Hi Woodhouse,
> 
> You are a B width which is a very narrow size. Men's snowboard boots (except for the handful of wide options) are produced for D width so you are two full width sizes narrow for your boots (all women's boots are actually produced at B width but you will not find a set in your size as you would be a 12 women's). No brands produce boots specifically for narrow feet.
> 
> ...


I dont have any boot fitters in my area, any other suggestions? This pain is going to prevent me from snowboarding.



neni said:


> May be a silly question... but did you clip your nais? Toes touching the front of boot isn't hurting as much if the flesh of toe is rammed onto liner whereas if the toe nails are? Ouch...


yeah nails were trimmed the night before I went out, I made sure of it.


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## speedjason (May 2, 2013)

woodhouse said:


> I have no boot fitters in my area, do you have a picture of this foam wedge that was used?


They look like these
https://bootfittingsupply.com/#!/Heel-Lift-Wedges/c/2786290/


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## woodhouse (Jan 18, 2013)

I was just re-watching angry snowboarders boot fitting videos, I think I may give these a shot

https://www.tognar.com/boot-fitting-heel-wedges-pair/


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

woodhouse said:


> I was just re-watching angry snowboarders boot fitting videos, I think I may give these a shot
> 
> https://www.tognar.com/boot-fitting-heel-wedges-pair/


Hi,

Your foot is at the smallest end of the length range for your current boots and is significantly too narrow for your boots. The remedy that you are looking at is to achieve the opposite of what you are looking for. Do you travel to resorts that might have boot fitters?


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## woodhouse (Jan 18, 2013)

Wiredsport said:


> woodhouse said:
> 
> 
> > I was just re-watching angry snowboarders boot fitting videos, I think I may give these a shot
> ...


I was just in killington vt and went to a reputable shop with a boot fitter and a machine that digitally measured my foot.
They sold me insoles and when I told them of my pain they offered to heat up the particular part of the boot and shave areas to give me more space which i know decreasing volume is not the answer.

Also while heating my moldable insoles they told me to walk around the store, another reason why I left.


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## speedjason (May 2, 2013)

woodhouse said:


> I was just re-watching angry snowboarders boot fitting videos, I think I may give these a shot
> 
> https://www.tognar.com/boot-fitting-heel-wedges-pair/


You can try this at home just get some cardboard and make a wedge and put in your boots and see if it helps.
If it does, buy the fancy ones. It's all about what works for you. Everyone is different.


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

woodhouse said:


> I was just in killington vt and went to a reputable shop with a boot fitter and a machine that digitally measured my foot.
> They sold me insoles and when I told them of my pain they offered to heat up the particular part of the boot and shave areas to give me more space which i know decreasing volume is not the answer.
> 
> Also while heating my moldable insoles they told me to walk around the store, another reason why I left.


Oi... yeah... lot of not do skilled "boot fitting" shops out there. Have you ski shops in your area? Best boot fitter I found here was in a ski shop :dunno:


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

woodhouse said:


> I was just in killington vt and went to a reputable shop with a boot fitter and a machine that digitally measured my foot.
> They sold me insoles and when I told them of my pain they offered to heat up the particular part of the boot and shave areas to give me more space which i know decreasing volume is not the answer.
> 
> Also while heating my moldable insoles they told me to walk around the store, another reason why I left.


Hi,

If we were to have started from scratch I would have suggested that you try the Flow Talon. It is not specifically a narrow boot but it does tend to work better with narrow feet. Some riders with your foot measurements will also drop down to a 10.5 (Mondo 285) although it should be noted that this is not your actual Mondopoint size. Sadly, you have an imperfect set of options as no manufacturer produces a boot for your foot spec so it will be a matter of choosing from imperfect options.


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## woodhouse (Jan 18, 2013)

this probably doesnt help, but here is a picture of my barefoot in my liner that is out of my boot, all the sides of my foot seem to come in contact with the liner. Big toe is firmly pressed against the front of the liner


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

woodhouse said:


> this probably doesnt help, but here is a picture of my barefoot in my liner that is out of my boot, all the sides of my foot seem to come in contact with the liner. Big toe is firmly pressed against the front of the liner


Hi,

Your toes and heels should have firm pressure into the compliant materials of the liner both toe and heel. This will always be the case when you are in your correct Mondopoint size range.


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## speedjason (May 2, 2013)

neni said:


> Oi... yeah... lot of not do skilled "boot fitting" shops out there. Have you ski shops in your area? Best boot fitter I found here was in a ski shop :dunno:


I can confirm. My boot fitter was mostly doing molding stuff for professional skiers.


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## woodhouse (Jan 18, 2013)

So just giving a little update here:

I decided to drop to a 10.5 size from an 11. I tried on a bunch of 10.5's from ride and burton but the boots still didnt feel great. I then tried on the k2 maysis in the 10.5 and the boot felt like it hugged my narrow foot much better than burtons, but the 10.5 seems larger in length than other manufacturers, so I sized down to a 10! 

To remedy the narrow low arch foot I have I bought some superfeet orange, which are like the green but a higher volume insert, got the boots heat molded and got on a the mountain...

Day 1: Foot pain everywhere, both big toes, both arches, and toes going numb in both feet (but mainly right on the numbness)

Day 2: Same as day 1 but ever so slightly less pain

Day 3: Took the orange superfeet out and put the factory insoles back in and had a great day. At the end of the day the only pain remaining was slight big toe pain in the left foot (this foot measures larger than the right I think it just needs a little more time to break in) slight pain on the outside of the left foot. The right foot had virtually no pain except still get a slight numbness in the big toe after a few runs, on days 1 and 2 the numbness occurred before I would finish one run

I feel like Im finally making progress into solving my horrible boot issues.

My next step will most likely be some type of insole with a lower profile than the orange superfeet, possibly the fp game changers.


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## woodhouse (Jan 18, 2013)

Just ordered some fp gamechanger lite insoles.

Will update with the results!


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## woodhouse (Jan 18, 2013)

So just another update....

My k2 maysis after 5 days on the mountain got completely chewed up in the heel/backstay area. I sent them back and k2 issued a refund after the warranty process. So now I'm back to square one.

Being that I have skinny ankles and a narrow foot, I'm looking for input of specific MODEL boot that runs on the narrow side.

Please recommend a model of boot and not a brand because one person will say DC, salamon and vans boots run narrow, and others will say they run wide. Seems to be this way across the board as far as brands in general.

*ATTENTION NARROW FOOTED SKINNY ANKLE SNOWBOARDERS! *

I'm looking for a mid stiff (7 out of 10) boot, preferably boa or speed lace.

I don't mind spending money I just need to solve this issue before this upcoming season.


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## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

woodhouse said:


> So just another update....
> 
> My k2 maysis after 5 days on the mountain got completely chewed up in the heel/backstay area. I sent them back and k2 issued a refund after the warranty process. So now I'm back to square one.
> 
> ...


Pics of the dogs being chewed?...that might be a binding interface issue. However there is often some rubbing wear and tear...so use some "Freesole" at those contact places where the boot gets chewed...see boot faq pics.


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## drblast (Feb 28, 2017)

woodhouse said:


> Please recommend a model of boot and not a brand because one person will say DC, salamon and vans boots run narrow, and others will say they run wide. Seems to be this way across the board as far as brands in general.


Salomon as a brand runs narrow in my experience, except for the models specifically designated as Wide. Source = my feet not fitting in Salomon boots unless they're wide.

In particular, Salomon Synapse are super comfy for me in the Wide but I feel width-claustrophobic in the regular and can't get my feet out of them fast enough.

Also *if they fit* I heartily recommend Salomon Synapse as the comfort is exceptional and they're very warm and easy to get in and out of, and the speed lacing system they have is good. I've since switched to 32's because those are wide enough for me to get into regular size 10's and they're an even better fit for me, but I still really liked the Synapse's.


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## woodhouse (Jan 18, 2013)

wrathfuldeity said:


> Pics of the dogs being chewed?...that might be a binding interface issue. However there is often some rubbing wear and tear...so use some "Freesole" at those contact places where the boot gets chewed...see boot faq pics.


here are the back of the boots


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## woodhouse (Jan 18, 2013)

drblast said:


> Salomon as a brand runs narrow in my experience, except for the models specifically designated as Wide. Source = my feet not fitting in Salomon boots unless they're wide.
> 
> In particular, Salomon Synapse are super comfy for me in the Wide but I feel width-claustrophobic in the regular and can't get my feet out of them fast enough.
> 
> Also *if they fit* I heartily recommend Salomon Synapse as the comfort is exceptional and they're very warm and easy to get in and out of, and the speed lacing system they have is good. I've since switched to 32's because those are wide enough for me to get into regular size 10's and they're an even better fit for me, but I still really liked the Synapse's.


Funny you say that cause right now these are at the top of my list to try for this year

https://www.backcountry.com/salomon-snowboards-synapse-focus-boa-snowboard-boot-mens


Although last years model didnt seem to get the best reviews as far as durability goes.

https://www.rei.com/product/122793/salomon-synapse-focus-boa-snowboard-boots-mens


But this seasons look great and ive heard they run narrow, hopefully durability isnt an issue.


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## drblast (Feb 28, 2017)

The boot heel pictures with those wear spots is pretty bad. What bindings are you on? That's not working with those boots and I'd hesitate to try new boots before I figured out why.


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## woodhouse (Jan 18, 2013)

drblast said:


> The boot heel pictures with those wear spots is pretty bad. What bindings are you on? That's not working with those boots and I'd hesitate to try new boots before I figured out why.


bindings situation has been rectified, all good there now


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## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

woodhouse said:


> here are the back of the boots


Perhaps contrary to Dr Blast...that aint bad, some freesole would eliminate the ware spots. But that is a binding/boot interface issue; I'd hazard to say that yer bindings in the heel cup area are too large/sloppy. 

So what bindering ru doing now? and will they fit with yer new/pending boots?

Anyways, if those boots fit and worked well, I'd keep the boots but find different bindings. And for future thought carpet test boots/with bindings for slop.


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## woodhouse (Jan 18, 2013)

Moved to medium 2019 burton cartels that have a smooth heel cup


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

Hi,

Did you ever try out the Flow Talon?


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## woodhouse (Jan 18, 2013)

Wiredsport said:


> Hi,
> 
> Did you ever try out the Flow Talon?


I have not, no one carries flow locally to me, so I'll have to order them. 
They rate the talon a 10/10 stiffness, do they have a slightly softer boot that works for narrow feet?


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

woodhouse said:


> I have not, no one carries flow locally to me, so I'll have to order them.
> They rate the talon a 10/10 stiffness, do they have a slightly softer boot that works for narrow feet?


The Talon is certainly stiff but it is a standalone in terms of width. It has been a great answer for may riders in your situation.


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## woodhouse (Jan 18, 2013)

Wiredsport said:


> The Talon is certainly stiff but it is a standalone in terms of width. It has been a great answer for may riders in your situation.


Ok I appreciate the input, the talon and the salomon synapse will be at the top of my list this year.

Have you noticed at difference in the boot after nidecker absorbed flow?


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

woodhouse said:


> Ok I appreciate the input, the talon and the salomon synapse will be at the top of my list this year.
> 
> Have you noticed at difference in the boot after nidecker absorbed flow?


Hi,

The Talon fit has not been altered.

STOKED!


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## Salt Shaker (Sep 13, 2017)

The issues you mentioned are similar to what I have been battling for a few seasons. Big toes getting hammered and cramping in the lateral mid-foot.

Your foot is similar to mine in that the big toe protrudes further than the other toes. It also looks like your foot maintains its width through the mid-foot. Where I differ is that my foot is on the wider side (26.8/27.4 and 104mm width)

The mid-foot pain goes away once the boots break in and those muscles get conditioned for snowboarding. 

For me the big toe issue is all about toe box shape. If the toe box is tapered, it won't work. Something that is more square and accommodating of the big toe is critical. Heat molding helps, and I use a broom handle to stretch out the liner where my big toe resides.

Like you, I am using stock insoles. I went through numerous aftermarket options, but I prefer something flat. I might do Game Changers next, or something cushy/heat moldable.

You may have been on the right track with the K2 Maysis if you spent a few more days in them. BurtonAvenger suggested K2 Darkos to me and they have been working well after some liner manipulation. Another member Phedder, who has the big toe issue, suggested Ride Fuses which I may try this winter. K2 and Ride have similar fits in some regards, and like you noticed they run big. 

I am not saying any of those boots will work, and I am far from an expert, but they may be worth looking into. I hope things work out!


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## woodhouse (Jan 18, 2013)

Salt Shaker said:


> The issues you mentioned are similar to what I have been battling for a few seasons. Big toes getting hammered and cramping in the lateral mid-foot.
> 
> Your foot is similar to mine in that the big toe protrudes further than the other toes. It also looks like your foot maintains its width through the mid-foot. Where I differ is that my foot is on the wider side (26.8/27.4 and 104mm width)
> 
> ...


Awesome man I love the feedback. 

Both the darko and fuse are lace boots which im trying to avoid if possible. But if the salamon or flows don't workout I'll give them a shot. 

And yeah the k2 and rides would fit similar they are owned by the same company.

To date the maysis was the best fitting boot ive had, but i still feel there is room for improvement. The conda is nice, but when I lock it down where i want it, it crushes my veins on the top of my foot and makes my toes go numb. If i did get another pair of them i would look into removing some of the liner they goes over the top of my foot.


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## Salt Shaker (Sep 13, 2017)

woodhouse said:


> Awesome man I love the feedback.
> 
> Both the darko and fuse are lace boots which im trying to avoid if possible. But if the salamon or flows don't workout I'll give them a shot.
> 
> ...


I like laces because lace blow outs are easily fixed, Boa's not so much. I drive 3 or 7 hours to ride, so a Boa malfunction would be a big inconvenience. 

The Conda can take some messing with. I prefer to situate it a little higher up to take pressure off my foot. The difference between good and bad can be a 1/4". I go barely finger tight with the dial as it doesnt need much. It would be nice if they redesigned the Conda chip to be bigger and have a hammock strap construction.


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

Salt Shaker said:


> The issues you mentioned are similar to what I have been battling for a few seasons. Big toes getting hammered and cramping in the lateral mid-foot.
> 
> Your foot is similar to mine in that the big toe protrudes further than the other toes. It also looks like your foot maintains its width through the mid-foot. Where I differ is that my foot is on the wider side (26.8/27.4 and 104mm width)
> 
> ...


Hi Salt,

You are Mondopoint 275 or size 9.5 US in snowboard boots. The key issue is that you are the largest measurement in the range for E width. This is critical as standard width boots are based on D width. Width is every bit as important as length. Only one manufacturer designs their Wide boots for E width. I would strongly suggest the Salomon Dialogue Wide or Synapse Wide in Modopoint 275 (US size 9.5). 

STOKED!


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## Raulis Balulis (Aug 15, 2019)

wrong thread lol


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## woodhouse (Jan 18, 2013)

Wiredsport said:


> Hi,
> 
> Did you ever try out the Flow Talon?


No one near me carries these boots, but I was able to find a pair online with free returns, but only in a size 10, im going to give them a shot


Also I'll be ordering the 2020 salomon synapse in a few sizes to try on once they become available


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## woodhouse (Jan 18, 2013)

so another update with the flow talon size 10

Overall impression boot feels to be super solid, build quality blows the k2 maysis out of the water, they are definitely more narrow as well which is good for me

My issue it my right foot feels like a perfect fit, toes hitting the front, slightly uncomfortable but not painful, a heat mold and a few days it should be perfect

But my left foot which is slightly larger the big toe is jammed to the front, and after about 10 minutes the toe starts going numb....

I will be ordering the salomons in a 10 and 10.5 to see which works the best


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## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

woodhouse said:


> so another update with the flow talon size 10
> 
> Overall impression boot feels to be super solid, build quality blows the k2 maysis out of the water, they are definitely more narrow as well which is good for me
> 
> ...


Think about sanding down the bottom of the insole...about 1/16 of an inch and/or make a + shape cut on the liner right at the front end where your big toe sticks out. I would not go to a 10.5.


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## woodhouse (Jan 18, 2013)

wrathfuldeity said:


> Think about sanding down the bottom of the insole...about 1/16 of an inch and/or make a + shape cut on the liner right at the front end where your big toe sticks out. I would not go to a 10.5.


Even though my mondo measurement is between a 10.5 and an 11?


I will have the salomons in a 10 on Thursday, Ill update then, thanks for the tip on helping to get the fitment right!


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

woodhouse said:


> Even though my mondo measurement is between a 10.5 and an 11?
> 
> 
> I will have the salomons in a 10 on Thursday, Ill update then, thanks for the tip on helping to get the fitment right!


Hi Woodhouse,

Your mondopoint size is 290. That is a US 11. Why would you not go with your mondo size?

STOKED!


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## woodhouse (Jan 18, 2013)

Wiredsport said:


> woodhouse said:
> 
> 
> > Hi,
> ...


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## woodhouse (Jan 18, 2013)

new update:

Flow Talons were a super quality boot, felt indestructible, but they weren't for me


Just got the Salomon synapse today, in both a 10 and a 10.5
another quality boot, definitely narrow and hugs my foot well
The boot is nice and stiff and the heel hold is fantastic, its only boot where Ive had virtually no heel lift

Im a bit torn on sizing tho, with my left foot being a bit bigger makes it tough as well

The 10.5 which is my boot measurement (as per wired's instructions) feels great, slight discomfort on my left foot, and no discomfort on my right foot (toe barely touching)
My right foot in the 10.5 feels how I would expect it to feel after being broken in, which worries me its going to pack out passed that point

The 10's on the other hand have a slight discomfort in both feet due to the big toes on each foot being pressed firmly into the front of the boot, but even that when I bend my knees doenst feel awful assuming its going to packout.

Im leaning towards the 10's, maybe someone can chime in on if and how much a Salomon boot will packout?

Only one more boot on the radar that was recommended for a narrow heel and ankle and thats the ride fuse, but right now the Synapse is at the front of the pack


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## woodhouse (Jan 18, 2013)

So here is a picture of my left foot which is the bigger one, on the factory size 10 insole. It looks about right to me, which is confusing cause my mondo puts me on the low side of an 11...




Also here is a picture of the size 10 insole vs the 10.5, they are the same length but different thickness, the 10.5 is a thinner insole.


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## drblast (Feb 28, 2017)

woodhouse said:


> new update:
> 
> Flow Talons were a super quality boot, felt indestructible, but they weren't for me
> 
> ...


I had 10.5 Salomon Synapse (wide) and they were comfy to start with mild pressure. They definitely packed out and ended up a size too big after about 20 days. And there's *plenty* of life left in those boots.

So I'd go with the 10's, especially if you can get them heat molded to reduce that toe pressure and ease the break-in period. If I can wear my 10's around the house for an hour without too much pain and numbness (there usually is numbness before heat molding) I know that's gonna be about right.


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## woodhouse (Jan 18, 2013)

drblast said:


> I had 10.5 Salomon Synapse (wide) and they were comfy to start with mild pressure. They definitely packed out and ended up a size too big after about 20 days. And there's *plenty* of life left in those boots.
> 
> So I'd go with the 10's, especially if you can get them heat molded to reduce that toe pressure and ease the break-in period. If I can wear my 10's around the house for an hour without too much pain and numbness (there usually is numbness before heat molding) I know that's gonna be about right.


Awesome, thats the exact kind of feedback I was looking for. I think it will be either these in the 10 or the ride fuse, and then hopefully my search will be over!


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## drblast (Feb 28, 2017)

woodhouse said:


> Awesome, thats the exact kind of feedback I was looking for. I think it will be either these in the 10 or the ride fuse, and then hopefully my search will be over!


Also if I'm not mistaken, the Salomon 10 and 10.5 outer shell are exactly the same and only the liner is a different size, right? If that's the case and both kinda fit the 10 might be the safe choice because it's easier to remove/pack out liner than add it. But adding foam is an option too.


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## woodhouse (Jan 18, 2013)

drblast said:


> Also if I'm not mistaken, the Salomon 10 and 10.5 outer shell are exactly the same and only the liner is a different size, right? If that's the case and both kinda fit the 10 might be the safe choice because it's easier to remove/pack out liner than add it. But adding foam is an option too.



Honestly they feel damn near identical to me

I took both liners out, one is marked 280 and the other 285 so they must be different, and like I showed in the previous post the thickness of the insoles are different as well but no the length

Other than that I dont see or feel any difference really


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## Paxford (Jan 7, 2019)

Woodhouse, responding to your request for input from those with thin feet. 

All, please share your comments/criticism on what I am about to say. I'm still learning and will be until the day I die. 

I'm very thin with narrow feet and ankles but the widepoint of my feet have painful bone spurs. I also have big toe pain from ingrown toenails. Sans the bone spurs I think I would measure narrow width instead of standard so I think my advice applies to Woodhouse. My family and friends say I have alien feet. For perspective I wear 13 (Altra's and Vans only) and 14 (Nike, Addidas, Brooks etc.) shoes with lots of stability for overpronation. I should be in a 12 standard boot based on measured mondo but mondo doesn't account for the alien lineage, or the thrashing my feet have gone through from surfing.

Last season I tried every size 12 to 13 available within ~100 mile radius (San Diego, Riverside and Orange County) in dual BOA. Woodhouse I believe you are in SD? If you haven't already check out Pf McMullin and the Green Room.

K2 Maysis - This may be my next boot. Great low volume fit. The only reasons I didn't buy the Maysis are durability concerns and they only had a size 12 in stock that rubbed my big toes too much. Width was spot on. K2 sizing options jumps from 12 to 13! Wish they made a size 12.5. Woodhouse you are lucky to be able to get half sizes. If I ever buy a Maysis in 12 I'll bootsmith out the big toe on day 1. From what I can recall *the arch is properly located and supportive without the need for insoles.*

Ride Lasso and Jackson -

Narrow overall fit, but not quite as good a fit as the K2 in size 12 (big toes rub even more). Size 13 are plush. Didn't buy a 13 because it'll pack out and lose performance way too quickly, but damn they are comfortable right out of the box.

Burton, DC, Thirtytwo - Terrible fit for me.

Salomon Dialogue standard width - 

I tried the 12, and bought this boot in 12.5. This is the only size 12.5 I could find locally. It was absolute torture right out of the box, way too narrow, even claustrophobic at the bone spur but a great tight fit at the heel and ankle. A bit tight at the toes but bearable. Knowing I need a low volume boot I sucked it up, brought them home and got to aggressively bootsmithing the width at the bone spur. I also opened up the toe box. After 6-10 days riding that low volume boot wasn't so low volume anymore at the instep. In went the heat molded Sole Performance insoles from my shoes *in size 14 cut to fit*. Why size 14? Because Sole size 13 insoles don't fit the location of my arch causing pain, and size 12 insoles are even worse. Instep issue solved. Woodhouse your first post showed pain at the arch. I am wondering if its not just lack of arch support, *but possibly improper location of arch support* causing you pain there. Given your toes are rubbing I think higher *properly located* arch support will keep your heel back, relieving your toe and arch pain. It may also help fill in your instep if you nail the thickness of the insole.

Anyhow, my Dialogues at 20-25 days are dialed with minimal to no heel lift and pain free. I'll be looking at K2 Maysis, Flow Talon and anything Salomon in the future. Great thread! the Talon wasn't on my radar until now, but of course they don't come in size 12.5 like Salomon does.


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## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

wrathfuldeity said:


> Think about sanding down the bottom of the insole...about 1/16 of an inch and/or make a + shape cut on the liner right at the front end where your big toe sticks out. I would not go to a 10.5.





woodhouse said:


> new update:
> 
> Flow Talons were a super quality boot, felt indestructible, but they weren't for me
> 
> ...





woodhouse said:


> So here is a picture of my left foot which is the bigger one, on the factory size 10 insole. It looks about right to me, which is confusing cause my mondo puts me on the low side of an 11...
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Paxford said:


> Woodhouse, responding to your request for input from those with thin feet.
> 
> All, please share your comments/criticism on what I am about to say. I'm still learning and will be until the day I die.
> 
> ...


1. What @Paxford says about aftermarket insoles and getting the arch support dialed.

2. Size up or size down...2 years ago discovered that in ski boots...they list sizes as mondo 24/24.5. This means the shell is the same size, however the liner volume and/or there is a "boot shim." The boot shim is just a piece of flat material...plastic perhaps that is put in the bottom of the shell that lies between the shell and liner. The shim is used to decrease volume. Also the shims are quite thin and seemingly don't do much...BUT they do.

3. So @woodhouse...what to do...size up or size down? Just use a shim in the boot of your smaller foot...or sand down (using a bench belt sander) the bottom of a quality aftermarket insole. I sanded down perhaps 1/32" off the bottom of my Ed Vissur Sole insole of my bigger right foot. It worked like a charm on my splitboard hard boots...Atomic Backlands...which have become my go to boots...they are even more comfortable, fit better and waaay out perform my dialed in softboots...thus don't see myself ever going back to softboots. Just be careful not to sand off too much. Just do a bit off and try.

4. Perhaps think about making or getting some ski boot shims for your soft boots. It would be easy to cut and use a piece of heat mouldable plastic sheet from a hobby store. Infact you can do a bunch of stuff with these plastic sheets...like tongue stiffners.


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## woodhouse (Jan 18, 2013)

Appreciate all the advice given so far

So Ive been messing around with the size 10 synapse, different tightness and swapping from factory insoles to the fp game changer insoles

When running the factory or fp game changers in these boots I notice then when I tighten the boot to where I want it, it seems I cut off circulation and my foot starts pulsing (I seem to get this with a lot of boots)

Also as good as the heel hold is with the narrow heel pocket, I do notice to some side to side and top to bottom wiggle room in the toe box

I decided to put the fp game changer insoles over the factory insoles in the boot, so its 2 insoles on top of each other, and this has actually given me the best fit with the most snug sock like feel.

Also with it setup this way, I can tighten the boot to where I like it and I dont really get that pulsing feeling anymore.

Im not sure if its ok to leave like this, or if its better for me to replace the factory insole with a thick size shim and put the game changer insole over that


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## Paxford (Jan 7, 2019)

I suggest trying it before buying something else. The factory insole will likely pack out quicker so if your getting more foot movement after a few or lots of days riding then remember that factory insole is hiding below. Also are you lining up the liner and shell tongue placement before tightening the liner and ratcheting down the boas? I found if the tongues aren’t aligned horizontally and vertically my feet can go numb. Vertically may be the wrong word, I push the tongue in and down ever so slightly before tightening anything and hold them in place as I tighten. Made a big difference for me.


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## woodhouse (Jan 18, 2013)

Thank God for generous return policies. Ive tried a bunch of other different boots, and still the salomon synapse fit the best, that is until now. Enter a new contender.....the Vans Infuse.

This boot is no joke, hugs my foot like a glove, I can tighten it down with virtually zero hot spots, no throbbing sensation like my veins are being crushed, and a super cushy feel inside, and they arent even heat molded. Heel hold is fantastic as well.

I got them in a 10.5, my big toe on each toe has slight pain after wearing them for a bit, Im figuring a heat mold and a few days of riding will fix this.

Now the only other boot on my radar, even though I think they will be to soft, are the Vans Aura Pro, even though im beginning to this its the boa cables over the top of my foot that is causing the issue, which is why the laces on the infuse seem to be fitting so well.

More updates to follow for us narrow footed guys.


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## woodhouse (Jan 18, 2013)

ok so I jumped the gun a little on the infuse, everything about the boot is quality and its crazy comfortable, but the heel hold isnt as good as i thought it was for me, its a shame cause the boot is seriously nice.
Also in the 10.5 after 10 minutes of wearing them my big toes go numb in both feet, my measurement is on the small side of 11, boarding on 10.5.

I recently got the ride lasso 10.5, ride deadbolt 10.5, and vans aura pro 11 to try.
The lasso just feels like a garbage boot, I dont like anything about it.
The deadbolt has a really nice wrap style liner, but still seems too wide.
The aura pro in a size 11 seems to fit my foot the best, no toes going numb, seems to be the most narrow out of them all, the only thing I dont like is they are softer than what Io originally wanted.

I might try the implant pro as im told they may be a notch stiffer than the aura pro.

I still want to try the k2 ender, and I wanted to try the ride fuse, but after trying the deadbolt im not as hopeful for the fuse as they seem to be the same boot minus the laces.

This is my foot on the vans aura pro size 11 insert











This is my foot inside the liner, notice my big toe poking out










And this is the liner without my foot in it


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

Hi Woodhouse,

I am all for experimentation but what you are experiencing above is entirely consistent with your measurements. You are Mondopoint 290 which is size 11 US in snowboard boots. Each mondopoint size has a very small range of on 5 mm. Go smaller than that range and you should expect pain and numbness in a new boot. 

STOKED!


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## woodhouse (Jan 18, 2013)

Wiredsport said:


> Hi Woodhouse,
> 
> I am all for experimentation but what you are experiencing above is entirely consistent with your measurements. You are Mondopoint 290 which is size 11 US in snowboard boots. Each mondopoint size has a very small range of on 5 mm. Go smaller than that range and you should expect pain and numbness in a new boot.
> 
> STOKED!


Thanks for the response, I will stick with size 11 from here on out. 

How do the pics in my previous post look, consistent with how a foot should look on a correct mondo size insole/liner?


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

woodhouse said:


> Thanks for the response, I will stick with size 11 from here on out.
> 
> How do the pics in my previous post look, consistent with how a foot should look on a correct mondo size insole/liner?





woodhouse said:


> Thanks for the response, I will stick with size 11 from here on out.
> 
> How do the pics in my previous post look, consistent with how a foot should look on a correct mondo size insole/liner?





woodhouse said:


> Thanks for the response, I will stick with size 11 from here on out.
> 
> How do the pics in my previous post look, consistent with how a foot should look on a correct mondo size insole/liner?


Yes, that looks fine. I usually use the insole as a reference for riders who are just starting the process. Very often new riders are understandably hesitant to go to their correct Mondo size and are riding boots that are far too large. Showing them their foot on the insert is typically helpful with this. You are in the much rarer group who is going too small. Riders that make that choice already know that they are in for some discomfort. The thought is that the process will produce a set of boots that will remain ultra snug after break in. _Sometimes_ that works


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## ridethecliche (Feb 27, 2019)

If you liked the Maysis so much, did you try the Thraxxis? It has a harder back on it which should stop the wear issue you experienced. 

Also, you could try wearing 2 different sized boots to accommodate each foot. Not optimal, but if that's what works...


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## woodhouse (Jan 18, 2013)

I tried the Vans Implant pro, they were a nice boot, but really need to go balls to the wall on tightening the laces to get the desired stiffness im looking for

Tried the Vans Verse another nice boot, but the heel is too bulky for my burton medium bindings


It would be great if the Vans aura pro were stiffer, I feel it would be perfect

One thing about the vans boots is there insoles seem to be fantastic

For now I have settled on the salomon dialogue boa, seem to fit the bill the best out of everything I tried

I did mess around and put the Vans v2 popcush foot bed in it from the aura pro and it felt amazing, that insoles is about 3x beefier than the crappy flat salomon ortholite insole that comes with the dialogues
So if anyone is putting aftermarket insoles in there Vans boot, send your stock ones my way!!

The only boot left on my radar to try is the Ride Fuse


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## fazy (Feb 3, 2017)

I feel your pain, literally! So today was my first day on new boots following @Wiredsport directions and suggestion for boots. I am having the same killer big toe pain in both feet and serious ankle pain in my left foot. I hoping it's just the brake in process as well.

A bit of my boot history. Way back was using some size 12 burton lace ups that were killing my toes. Then I was riding size 14 burton imperials and was getting a lot of heel lift and the ankle pain as now. Then size 13 k2 mays is after that Switched to size 13 burton photons, lastly per wiredsports suggestion size 12 photon wide.

For me the k2 maysis was the most comfortable boot I had and really loved it. I also had issues with the back heal area. Mine actually became little holes from wear.

I was gonna post my own tread to see if I can get some guidance as well but I just read all of this one and I guess seems like I have to wait for the boots to give a bit before I start experimenting.

But I know where your coming from. I was the first one off the mountain today, which is never the case. Hopefully we can both sort our boot issues out


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

Just in case you didn't do this already: Clip your toe nails. Probably won't solve the issue, but make it less prominent.


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## fazy (Feb 3, 2017)

neni said:


> Just in case you didn't do this already: Clip your toe nails. Probably won't solve the issue, but make it less prominent.


Ill definitely cut them next time out to be sure. Though they look fine. My ankle is still in pain and swollen 15 hours later still.. I wonder if I should post photos of my feet for you guys to confirm the sizing?


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## ridethecliche (Feb 27, 2019)

@Wiredsport loves feet pictures


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## fazy (Feb 3, 2017)

OK here are some photos of my feet. Please correct me if I was wrong about my sizing.


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## fazy (Feb 3, 2017)

@neni have a look at my toe nails. They are fairly short.


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## fazy (Feb 3, 2017)

Thought I would add photos of the pressure points of my ankle in case that helps. You can see the swelling as they are still hurting today.


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## ridethecliche (Feb 27, 2019)

Blisters from heel lift?


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## fazy (Feb 3, 2017)

Actually the heels were fine. Didn't feel any heel lift at all. It was just pressure points on the ankles.


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## woodhouse (Jan 18, 2013)

What the heck, why is there another mans foot in my thread?!?!?


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## woodhouse (Jan 18, 2013)

So after trying a bunch of different boots, Ive decided to start the season with the 2020 salomon dialogues
I also upgraded the crappy ortholite insole with FP Kingfoam Orthotics.
Im getting them heat molded tomorrow, and I should be getting out on them soon, Ill update after riding


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## woodhouse (Jan 18, 2013)

So I just spent 2 days on this setup at Killington

The first 2 hours, pain all over, both big toes hurt, arches on both feet hurt, the outside of my lead foot hurt.

After that everything started to settle in a bit,and by the end of day 2 my only real discomfort was my big toe on my left foot (its about half a size bigger than my other foot)

Some pain would come and go throughout the day, but I would say im about 80% pain free, which is a huge win considering to the amount of pain I had before these.

Going on a 7 day trip to CO in a few weeks, will update again after that


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## woodhouse (Jan 18, 2013)

So just giving a little update on this:
So far I am still with the setup pictured above, 2020 Salomon Dialogues and the FP Kingfoam Orthotics
The boots are here to stay, the insoles I like but not sure if their could be better ones out there suited to me

Im still getting some big toe pain on my left foot which is slightly bigger than my right foot, but its tolerable, I think the boots just need to packout a bit

Whats concerning is the intermittent pain on the outside area of my lead (left) foot, and the pain on the inside arch area of my back (right) foot. I have gotten this pain with every boot I've ridden in, with and without aftermarket inserts. The pain does come and go so I can tolerate it

I have thought about either trying some remind insoles, or the vans v3 pop cush insoles or something with less of an arch support, but I'm just guessing here to try and accomplish a 100% pain free ride


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

woodhouse said:


> Whats concerning is the intermittent pain on the outside area of my lead (left) foot, and the pain on the inside arch area of my back (right) foot. I have gotten this pain with every boot I've ridden in, with and without aftermarket inserts. The pain does come and go so I can tolerate it
> 
> I have thought about either trying some remind insoles, or the vans v3 pop cush insoles or something with less of an arch support, but I'm just guessing here to try and accomplish a 100% pain free ride


Try if increasing your front foot angle helps.


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## woodhouse (Jan 18, 2013)

neni said:


> Try if increasing your front foot angle helps.


Im already at 12 dont want to go any further
But I am starting to think its possibly not boot related?


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## woodhouse (Jan 18, 2013)

also maybe my arches arnt as low as I thought, here is a pic, and again I circled where im getting the pain @Wiredsport


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

woodhouse said:


> Im already at 12 dont want to go any further
> But I am starting to think its possibly not boot related?


I assume you ride regular? It's just a guess as both your pain points are on different regions of your feet, but both on the lefg side of both feet, which made me guess that it might be thst you put a lot of pressure on both left sides as your boty tries to be in a more angled direction towards nose.

I had experienced that pain points on left sides on feet when I massively changed my angles (from +28/+12ish to +12/-12ish). As if my feet were constantly fighting the angle restriction. When swaping to the +18/-6 I now rock, all was fine immediately.
Doesn't need to be thecaseforyou, but itmay be worth to ckeck next time you're riding if you turn your upper body to the nose and thus twister legs/knee/feet top-wards, giving pressure to those nose-pointing foot regions.


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