# Union bindings sizing



## fzst

theduke said:


> Had a pair of union forces in medium and I had to put the toe straps all the way out to fit. Replaced them with a set of union atlas in large, and am wondering if they look too big? My boots are size 9.5 burtons, union says medium should be 7-10..
> 
> Do you think these are fine, or should I return them for mediums again.
> 
> Cant seem to post the image, h ttps://imgur.com/a/SI3UAjN


I can see the L bindings work but your better bet would definately be the Ms.
Putting the toestrap all the way out isnt really a problem and should work out just fine.
I have some union M Contact Pros and i rode them with some old Burton Imperial size 11s and although the current size 11 Burton seem to be quite a bit bigger I dont see why one should have any issues with size 9.5 boots. That should be pretty much the perfect bootsize for a size M binding.

With the forces you can adjust the heelcup as well as the gaspedal so you should be able to get a perfect fit of the footbed. The straps should suffice too.
The only issue i see with unions is that the heelcup is really narrow and i had to shave of a bit of the highbacks when i used them with my burton 11 boots so that they didnt eat away my boots at the sides. But again i cant see that being an issue with size 9.5 Burtons.

You have to know, I think two seasons ago (?), union changed the sizing charts of their bindings from:
7-11 for size M and then 10 plus for size L.

That was just for the reason not to confuse the customers though, they didnt change the actual sizes of the bindings, I asked them about it. So if you have a low profile boot (which Burtons are) you should be able to squeeze an even bigger boot than size 10 in an M.
I ride adidas size 10.5 now and they fit in the union Ms just fine, they are really lowprofile though. With Burtons Id say a size 10 should fit well.
I guess even a 10.5 could work. With a size 11 boot I would start to be careful.
For your 9.5 burtons though, definately get the Ms!
I personaly would always try to fit in the smallest bindings possible.


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## JoEY C

theduke said:


> Had a pair of union forces in medium and I had to put the toe straps all the way out to fit. Replaced them with a set of union atlas in large, and am wondering if they look too big? My boots are size 9.5 burtons, union says medium should be 7-10..
> 
> Do you think these are fine, or should I return them for mediums again.
> 
> Cant seem to post the image, h ttps://imgur.com/a/SI3UAjN


i had the exact same issue. I'm a sz 9 adidas and got a M union force (which there saying is boot size 7-10) my heel cup was originally on the last notch and it stretched out alillte bit so now its on the 2nd to last. i can't see how a size 10 can fit into there M bindings.


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## fzst

JoEY C said:


> i had the exact same issue. I'm a sz 9 adidas and got a M union force (which there saying is boot size 7-10) my heel cup was originally on the last notch and it stretched out alillte bit so now its on the 2nd to last. i can't see how a size 10 can fit into there M bindings.


What do you mean by the heelcup stretched out a little? Thats solid aluminium :chin:

You have to keep in mind that one size bigger isnt all that much bigger. A size larger means that the boot was built for a foot which is 0.4 inches longer and 0.1 inches wider. Thats not a massive difference. So if you still have one notch left to make it bigger, you should be able to fit in a size M. At least i didnt have any problems with my size 10.5 adidas boots.

As long as you can properly center the boot on the board and your boot doesnt get stuck in the binding, the snugger the fit the better.
Thats why i would always try to fit in the smaller size bindings.
The smaller bindings are also significantly lighter.


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## edi414

fzst said:


> What do you mean by the heelcup stretched out a little? Thats solid aluminium :chin:
> 
> You have to keep in mind that one size bigger isnt all that much bigger. A size larger means that the boot was built for a foot which is 0.4 inches longer and 0.1 inches wider. Thats not a massive difference. So if you still have one notch left to make it bigger, you should be able to fit in a size M. At least i didnt have any problems with my size 10.5 adidas boots.
> 
> As long as you can properly center the boot on the board and your boot doesnt get stuck in the binding, the snugger the fit the better.
> Thats why i would always try to fit in the smaller size bindings.
> The smaller bindings are also significantly lighter.


@fzst Im actually having the same question at the moment. Riding a 10.5 US Burton Ion latest version and am debating whether M or L is a better fit (if either of the two is at all...). Apologies for not posting in this thread straight away but only saw this now. I have posted a few pictures here and thought Id ask whether you could have a look.









Union Falcor vs Flux XF


Thinking of getting a pair of bindings for resort carving and off piste. 95kg naked, intermediate rider :) Any thoughts on the Union Falcors vs the Flux XF? Grateful for any input!




www.snowboardingforum.com





Cheers


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## mjayvee

theduke said:


> Had a pair of union forces in medium and I had to put the toe straps all the way out to fit. Replaced them with a set of union atlas in large, and am wondering if they look too big? My boots are size 9.5 burtons, union says medium should be 7-10..
> 
> Do you think these are fine, or should I return them for mediums again.
> 
> Cant seem to post the image, h ttps://imgur.com/a/SI3UAjN


Get Medium. I've worn my size-10 boots with medium Union bindings from 3 different brands and they all fit just right: Burton, Thirtytwo, and my current pair of DCs. I learned my lesson from getting Large on my very first pair of Unions and it did not fit/ride properly.


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## edi414

mjayvee said:


> Get Medium. I've worn my size-10 boots with medium Union bindings from 3 different brands and they all fit just right: Burton, Thirtytwo, and my current pair of DCs. I learned my lesson from getting Large on my very first pair of Unions and it did not fit/ride properly.


@mjayvee what's your opinion if using a size 10.5US Burtion Ion - Medium or Larger? Below a couple of pictures for refernce (black bindings are Medium, silver are Large)


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## mjayvee

edi414 said:


> @mjayvee what's your opinion if using a size 10.5US Burtion Ion - Medium or Larger? Below a couple of pictures for refernce (black bindings are Medium, silver are Large)
> 
> View attachment 150992
> View attachment 150993
> View attachment 150994
> View attachment 150995
> View attachment 150996


For size 10.5 boots, get Large.


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## fzst

Well thats kind of a tricky one. The ion is pretty large for its size so im not quite sure. From the pictures i would say large is too big and medium is too small :.D

The problem is, that you dont have enough leverage/overhang over the footbed with the L and therefore you probably cannot get as much pressure to the edges as you might like that one youll only know when you try it though. Its hard to chose really and maybe you would be better off with a binding that has a expendable gaspedal like the atlas for example.

The adidas tactial ADV I used with a union contact pro M is pretty much the smallest boot on the market for its size. Its considerably smaller than an ion in the same size (its at least a half size smaller in length than the ion, maybe even more - the size 9.5 i measured against an ion was 1cm shorter, thats one full size!) - so its really hard to compare.

That being said, I guess my recommandation would still be the size M - if the boot goes in and out without any problems, like being stuck or the like, just because of the reasons i mentioned in my post last year....


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## edi414

fzst said:


> Well thats kind of a tricky one. The ion is pretty large for its size so im not quite sure. From the pictures i would say large is too big and medium is too small :.D
> 
> The problem is, that you dont have enough leverage/overhang over the footbed with the L and therefore you probably cannot get as much pressure to the edges as you might like that one youll only know when you try it though. Its hard to chose really and maybe you would be better off with a binding that has a expendable gaspedal like the atlas for example.
> 
> The adidas tactial ADV I used with a union contact pro M is pretty much the smallest boot on the market for its size. Its considerably smaller than an ion in the same size (its at least a half size smaller in length than the ion, maybe even more - the size 9.5 i measured against an ion was 1cm shorter, thats one full size!) - so its really hard to compare.
> 
> That being said, I guess my recommandation would still be the size M - if the boot goes in and out without any problems, like being stuck or the like, just because of the reasons i mentioned in my post last year....


Thanks for your opinion. It actually crossed my mind that my boots are right in the spot where neither is a great fit really.

Would you be concerned about the overhang of the base plate on the edges at all or say thats a minor issue?

In terms of fitting both M and L are actually pretty good, nice and snug but not too tight so that the boot gets stuck or anything (or being super loose in the bindings so that Id have to crank the straps in case of the Ls).


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## jimbo1

I have some older Forces and had trouble with my old Northwave Legend boots size 9. The ankle strap was too small. Union were kind enough to send me L ankle straps and they had told me that they would be making them bigger from next year onwards. Not sure if that is true.

I have bought Ride Fuse since and the old strap fits fine now, so I guess it depends on your boots. Btw, I still can't see why Unions get all this love, mine are pretty banged up after 30 days or so, much happier with Burton or Nitro bindings that I had in the past.


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## fzst

edi414 said:


> Thanks for your opinion. It actually crossed my mind that my boots are right in the spot where neither is a great fit really.
> 
> Would you be concerned about the overhang of the base plate on the edges at all or say thats a minor issue?
> 
> In terms of fitting both M and L are actually pretty good, nice and snug but not too tight so that the boot gets stuck or anything (or being super loose in the bindings so that Id have to crank the straps in case of the Ls).


Sorry for the late reply. I still post my thoughts in this thread too, just in case you didnt make your decision yet or someone else might be interested in this thread/issue too.

So regarding the baseplate overhang: I dont think thats an issue if its just minor. Ive never had that in one of my bindings though, so i cant say for sure but I wouldnt think about it too much if its just a few mm...
Thats the problem with union baseplates - they are way too big in the front section, while still being narrow in the heelcup.
Idk why they do that, its just completely unnecessary to make the footbed this wide at the front. 

Regarding fit: Sorry but I cant believe that you get a good snug fit in both sizes, the large should be significantly larger. So eitehr the M is tight af or the large is too wide. Ideally, there should be no space between all sides of the boot and the binding/heelcup. Its not a big deal if there is some space (especially considering your next boot could be a few mm wider) but you should aim for the smallest gap possible.

Another thing to consider: Are you new to snowboarding? Are you completely sure, that your boot size is in fact 10.5?
Im just asking because alot of riders discover over time, that they rode boots way too big (Im one of them! I rode boots too big for over 15 years!!).
And if your next boot is maybe a 10 or even a 9.5, the L would be way too big.

So: I would still recommend the M !

Its slightly too small but nothing worrying in my opinion. The benefit of a bigger binding is just their ability to accomodate your boot (if your boot doesnt fit into an M) and nothing more.
There just isnt much to gain from going with the bigger size. Your bindings just get heavier and you probably get a sloppier fit.
Also with the larger size its often more difficult to center you boot properly over the board (although it looks the boot is centered pretty good with both in your pictures).
This isnt that much of a problem with unions though since the have an adjustable heelcup.
You would get some extra response/dampness due to the more material built in with the size large though. But here it depends on your weight which binding would be a better fit...

Sure a binding too small can make your board feel twitchy because you put too much pressure on the gaspedal under your toes but I dont think that would be the case with your setup. In my opinion too much force on the gaspedal is still better than not beeing able to put sufficiant pressure on there.
Your gaspedal should actually be under your footbpads and not under tiptoes to maximize force-distribution to your edges. So while the fit with the L bindings might look like they offer a more seamless fit with your boots, it actually is inferior in terms of pressure distribution from the boot to the edges of your board.

Also the ion is not really low profile in width and neither in length. So the risk, that your next boot will be bigger is relatively small.


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## edi414

fzst said:


> Sorry for the late reply. I still post my thoughts in this thread too, just in case you didnt make your decision yet or someone else might be interested in this thread/issue too.
> 
> So regarding the baseplate overhang: I dont think thats an issue if its just minor. Ive never had that in one of my bindings though, so i cant say for sure but I wouldnt think about it too much if its just a few mm...
> Thats the problem with union baseplates - they are way too big in the front section, while still being narrow in the heelcup.
> Idk why they do that, its just completely unnecessary to make the footbed this wide at the front.
> 
> Regarding fit: Sorry but I cant believe that you get a good snug fit in both sizes, the large should be significantly larger. So eitehr the M is tight af or the large is too wide. Ideally, there should be no space between all sides of the boot and the binding/heelcup. Its not a big deal if there is some space (especially considering your next boot could be a few mm wider) but you should aim for the smallest gap possible.
> 
> Another thing to consider: Are you new to snowboarding? Are you completely sure, that your boot size is in fact 10.5?
> Im just asking because alot of riders discover over time, that they rode boots way too big (Im one of them! I rode boots too big for over 15 years!!).
> And if your next boot is maybe a 10 or even a 9.5, the L would be way too big.
> 
> So: I would still recommend the M !
> 
> Its slightly too small but nothing worrying in my opinion. The benefit of a bigger binding is just their ability to accomodate your boot (if your boot doesnt fit into an M) and nothing more.
> There just isnt much to gain from going with the bigger size. Your bindings just get heavier and you probably get a sloppier fit.
> Also with the larger size its often more difficult to center you boot properly over the board (although it looks the boot is centered pretty good with both in your pictures).
> This isnt that much of a problem with unions though since the have an adjustable heelcup.
> You would get some extra response/dampness due to the more material built in with the size large though. But here it depends on your weight which binding would be a better fit...
> 
> Sure a binding too small can make your board feel twitchy because you put too much pressure on the gaspedal under your toes but I dont think that would be the case with your setup. In my opinion too much force on the gaspedal is still better than not beeing able to put sufficiant pressure on there.
> Your gaspedal should actually be under your footbpads and not under tiptoes to maximize force-distribution to your edges. So while the fit with the L bindings might look like they offer a more seamless fit with your boots, it actually is inferior in terms of pressure distribution from the boot to the edges of your board.
> 
> Also the ion is not really low profile in width and neither in length. So the risk, that your next boot will be bigger is relatively small.


And thanks again for the super helpful reply @fzst! All makes total sense and makes me very confident now with my choice to stick to the M version.

Only additional comment: you are right that the overall fit is not the same in both versions. In the Ls there is a lot of space on the sides between the boot and the bindings especially in the front. When I was referring to snug fit I was only talking about the heel cup. Surprisingly there is not much of a difference between the two boots - sorry for not being precise on this point!


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## J.C.

I recently reduced from a size 11 boot to a 9.5 wide K2 Maysis. Everything I own is Large and wide to accommodate the size 11 boots. My Union binding healcups were set to 1, so I reduced them to 0, and I also brought the toe strap from the outside notch to the inside. The boot fits snug east to west being a wide version, but I've never owned a medium binding, but logically seeing the boot fits rather snug width wise, I'm probably better off sticking with what I have, or are mediums about the same width as larges?


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## edi414

From the pictures I think you might be struggling width wise particularly in the heel cup with the Ms (but also the front seems nice and snug in the Ls and might be too tight in the Ms). What doesn't look quite right to me though is the length of the food bed for your boot size. The front part in the pictures is a bit dark so can't 100% say where the boot ends but it looks like your boot doesn't have any overhang and end basically with the toe ramp. The toe ramp should help you put more pressure on the toe edge which will be harder for you with those bindings.

Depending on the board width you're riding you also might face issues centring your boots on the board properly with equal amounts of overhang on toe and heel edge (unless you ride a wide board with no boot overhang anyway or you mount the bindings so that you have a base plate overhang on the toe edge but you probably don't want to that either  ).

Maybe you can order an M and test it with your boots in case free returns are possible? At least in Europe most shops offer this now given the current situation with lock down and all the restrictions...


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## J.C.

edi414 said:


> From the pictures I think you might be struggling width wise particularly in the heel cup with the Ms (but also the front seems nice and snug in the Ls and might be too tight in the Ms). What doesn't look quite right to me though is the length of the food bed for your boot size. The front part in the pictures is a bit dark so can't 100% say where the boot ends but it looks like your boot doesn't have any overhang and end basically with the toe ramp. The toe ramp should help you put more pressure on the toe edge which will be harder for you with those bindings.
> 
> Depending on the board width you're riding you also might face issues centring your boots on the board properly with equal amounts of overhang on toe and heel edge (unless you ride a wide board with no boot overhang anyway or you mount the bindings so that you have a base plate overhang on the toe edge but you probably don't want to that either  ).
> 
> Maybe you can order an M and test it with your boots in case free returns are possible? At least in Europe most shops offer this now given the current situation with lock down and all the restrictions...


Thank you for your response. I took a couple of pictures with more light, its around .5 inches or 1.27 centimeters of overhang. I know Union says a medium binding is up to size 10, and Large is 10+. If scaling is correct, a 9.5 wide would be equal to a 10.5 normal width. It may be worth it like you said to check out a medium.


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## tomj16a

fzst said:


> I can see the L bindings work but your better bet would definately be the Ms.
> Putting the toestrap all the way out isnt really a problem and should work out just fine.
> I have some union M Contact Pros and i rode them with some old Burton Imperial size 11s and although the current size 11 Burton seem to be quite a bit bigger I dont see why one should have any issues with size 9.5 boots. That should be pretty much the perfect bootsize for a size M binding.
> 
> With the forces you can adjust the heelcup as well as the gaspedal so you should be able to get a perfect fit of the footbed. The straps should suffice too.
> The only issue i see with unions is that the heelcup is really narrow and i had to shave of a bit of the highbacks when i used them with my burton 11 boots so that they didnt eat away my boots at the sides. But again i cant see that being an issue with size 9.5 Burtons.
> 
> You have to know, I think two seasons ago (?), union changed the sizing charts of their bindings from:
> 7-11 for size M and then 10 plus for size L.
> 
> That was just for the reason not to confuse the customers though, they didnt change the actual sizes of the bindings, I asked them about it. So if you have a low profile boot (which Burtons are) you should be able to squeeze an even bigger boot than size 10 in an M.
> I ride adidas size 10.5 now and they fit in the union Ms just fine, they are really lowprofile though. With Burtons Id say a size 10 should fit well.
> I guess even a 10.5 could work. With a size 11 boot I would start to be careful.
> For your 9.5 burtons though, definately get the Ms!
> I personaly would always try to fit in the smallest bindings possible.


I just a bought a pair of the Tactical Lexicon ADV boots in Mens US size 10. I'm replacing them for my Adidas Sambas in size 10. I have Union Strata bindings in medium size and a 153 Wide Capita DOA. These Lexicon ADV boots fit snug in the heel cup. The width of these boots are right up against the circumference of the heel cup. And there's about 1cm gap of width on the footbed for slight wiggle room to adjust. It's a pretty good fit. However, i have wide feet and I'm ordering a size 10.5 on these Lexicon ADV boots. My feet feel a bit constricted towards the heel and middle width. I'm a true size 10 in normal shoes. These boots have a slightly wider footbed than the sambas. Hoping size 10.5 will do the trick for a less constrictive feel. I'm a little worried size 10.5 may not fit my medium size bindings. I'm not looking to get Large bindgings, just hoping medium bindings fit on 10.5 Lexicon ADVs. Any thoughts? And any suggestion on boots for people with wide feet size 10 in Mens?


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## chubbytaylor1997

Im also wondering the same thing. Im riding 10.5 thirtytwo TM-3s but typically I am a 10 shoe size. Wanting to pickup a pair of the Union strata bindings but not sure if Medium would be a better choice especially considering if i got a new pair of boots in the future they might be size 10. Would they then be too small for the Large size bindings?


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## buller_scott

Sz 10US Burton Ruler *Wide *here. Flux DS & SR, Jones H3, Burton Clutch and Malavita, Union Contact Pro and Strata --- all size M. L is simply WAY too big - there will be a massive heel-side bias, that you will have to run your mounting disc North-South in order to compensate for. 

chubbytaylor, are you sure that you need to be running 10.5 sized boots? If you're a sz 10 shoe (as I am for e'S, Globe, Merrell), you should likely be 9.5-10 boot size, depending on the brand. 

My limited experience with the Union Stratas (on a backdrop of LOTS of research re: sizing, as I had to buy them online, without seeing/test fitting them in person), is that their base plate/pad is quite wide, so should be able to accommodate somewhat bulky boots - I confess to not knowing how bulky ThirtyTwo Tm-3's are (are ThirtyTwo getting more and more bulky these days?).


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