# What size snowboard for speed?



## Cavman (Mar 1, 2010)

Technically speaking, the longer boards are BETTER for speed as they are more stable, not because they are faster. Gravity is exerting a force on your mass and pulling it downhill. The only thing stopping you is friction between the board base and the snow.

Thats why we wax our boards.

The more board surface in contact with the snow the more friction that is applied, so a smaller narrower board would be faster but not very stable. I personally try and keep an edge and never flat board when hammering down a hill. Two reasons, less friction and MORE CONTROL.

In reality it all depends on your weight/height, snow conditions, board base, wax type and how you bite your tongue when you go fast hehe.


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## TLN (Sep 7, 2010)

Well.... You should search for this on some harbooter forums. But:
1. The longer board more stable
2. The stiffer board more stable.
3. The bigger radius(sidecut) more stable.
4. The more angles you have on bindings is more stable.
5. The narrower board is more stable.

Let me explain the last 3 points.
Bigger radius means you can't do a small carve, and you don't need it while going too fast. So big turns only. They're easier to control on edge.
Carving anges allow you to dose the power on edge. I mean if you push as hard on a 15/-15 board id turn very quick. But if you pust the same power on a carving angled for example 55/30(dunno the exact angles), board won't turn so quick. So you got to push 20% of power on 15/-15 and 60% of on a carving. And it's way easier to control in 0-60% range then 0-20%. Quite hard to understand but i hope you will.
And the last one. narrower board gives better edge to edge performance. 

If you want to see what exact board made for spped you should look at BX setup. It was made for pure speed and stable. or SL/GS boards, but it's the higher level =))


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## gera229 (Dec 5, 2008)

I have a k2 Juju snowboard that I never road on before. It is 158cm. I am 5'11" and 190lbs. Is the board too small for stable high speed?


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## earl_je (Oct 20, 2009)

...and most importantly, bigger balls.


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## TLN (Sep 7, 2010)

*gera229*, you mean you never rode on a k2 juju or on a snowboard ever? 
I think it's too smal for you and for high speed. But this depends on what do you think high speed is =)
I think 165 cm is better for 5'11" and 190lbs.


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

gera229 said:


> I have a k2 Juju snowboard that I never road on before. It is 158cm. I am 5'11" and 190lbs. Is the board too small for stable high speed?


Hi Gera,

I hope that I can convice you not to focus on tip to tip length. That measurement will not help you in finding the correct, high performing board that you are looking for.

First off, what is your foot size (rider height is not a factor in snowboard sizing)?

Please read this if you have a minute:

Board sizing has always been a little tricky, but in the past, there have been a small group of readily available stats that have been very useful for comparison and selection by knowledgeable riders. One of those has been Running Length (AKA Contact Length).

As we have written many times, overall board length is a commonly considered, but almost useless measurement. Why? Because the shape and dimensions of a board's raised tip and tail can vary greatly and have next to no impact on the way the board will ride. These variations may change the overall board length by as much as 7 cm without having any significant effect on performance. I can feel some readers out there bristling to say, "but length effects spin weight and rotation". Sure, but in reality the difference in weight is negligible, and the difference you feel in spins is minor at best...and, most importantly for this article, tip to tip length will always be provided, so if it is important to you, it will always be available.

Most informed boarders have paid little to no attention to overall (tip to tip) length but have focused on Running Length as a major indicator of a board's true "size". This measurement was highly valued as it gauged the amount of board that would be in firm contact with the snow while riding. The running length was typically taken as a straight line measurement between the two contact points, which on traditional cambered boards pretty well corresponded with the board's wide points at both ends of it's effective edge. So, this really became a wide point to wide point measurement. Some manufacturers would measure this with the camber compressed (weighted) while others would take a non compressed measurement. In either case, the numbers were pretty close. Good retailers kept their own consistent internal measurements.

Enter Rocker. Rocker is an overused term that inaccurately groups about twenty different variations on Reverse Camber designs. One common element to all of the "Rocker" boards is that by design, the tip and tail, when weighted, are not in firm contact with the snow. Aside: For those readers who are about to comment that some designs are using additional cambered sections, etc, to re-achieve weighted wide point contact, please note that we do not consider these "true" Rockered designs. Although some of these do have a Rockered section (typically between the bindings) the end effect is a board with full contact at the tip and tail when weighted. End Aside.

So, how is running length being measured for Rockered boards? Well, that's interesting. For the mostpart, it's no longer being measured at all. Manufacturers that have been providing this measurement for years and in some cases decades, are now excluding the measurement from their literature and websites. Others have simply continued to measure wide point to widepoint, even while this is no longer a true representation of contact length.

Our suggestion: Two separate measurements. The fist being true weighted contact length and the second being the wide spot to wide spot measurement. This will allow the knowledgeable board seeker to get an idea of real running length, plus "available" running length (available by selective pressuring, even if not all at once) and wide spot distance to better gauge where the potential catch spots are in relation to rider stance.

But at least for now, Running Length, R.I.P.


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## gera229 (Dec 5, 2008)

I have been snowboarding a few times before using other peoples boards.
Not sure what the weighted contact length is. Nor the wide to wide spot.

I have my snowboard and 2 more snowboards that are my brother's.

Mines when put flat on ground seems like it's the least bent in the center and not as much lifted from the ground compared to their boards. Not sure if this matters.

My boot size is 12 and my board is approx 10.3in wide at the spot where the bindings are. I measured from the bottom. My bare foot wouldn't stick out more than an inch if at all.

1 of my brothers board is 10.5in from one binding side and the other side is slightly smaller on the snowboard. Does it have to be wider at the tip or the tail assuming the tail is the back side?
What side is that foot pad thingy supposed to be on?


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## Xelorz (Nov 4, 2010)

Cavman said:


> Thats why we wax our boards.
> 
> The more board surface in contact with the snow the more friction that is applied, so a smaller narrower board would be faster but not very stable.


Wait. Are you implying the idea behind waxing a snowboard is to reduce friction and that friction is bad for a snowboard?


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## TLN (Sep 7, 2010)

gera229 said:


> I have been snowboarding a few times before using other peoples boards.


Well, any board would be ok for first or two years, if it does match your weight. Actually first year it would go way faster then you can go. =)


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## Cavman (Mar 1, 2010)

Xelorz said:


> Wait. Are you implying the idea behind waxing a snowboard is to reduce friction and that friction is bad for a snowboard?


Every surface has friction. You require edge control to steer the board not base grip. The base has friction yes. Thats why over the years they have evolved the base material from Extruded to Sintered. Sintered bases allow more wax to be absorbed. The wax is hydrophobic, which means it repeals water. As your board goes over the snow it melts a small amount of the snow and the wax allows it to glide on it. 

Trust me, when your board is due for a waxing you will know it. Also put the worng wax on your board, i.e Australian Condiditions wax ona board and ride it in Japan and it will stick to the snow like a stuck in a the snow thing.

Read here

Now don't get confused with why a surfer waxes his board. 

A properly waxed board is faster and easier to control.


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## Qball (Jun 22, 2010)

wax doesn't just simply reduce friction, there's a little more to it than that. If that were true we could simply lube up our boards with grease and go. The friction between the snow and your base creates a thin layer of water and this where the wax comes in handy. Wax is hydrophobic and allows the water to glide across the base without sticking to it. Additives in the wax can help create even less friction between the water and your base, allowing you to go faster.


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## Cavman (Mar 1, 2010)

Actually check your history. In the very first days of skiing they used rosin, sap and tar. I said reduces friction by doing exactly what I said, melting the snow so it can glide on it.


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## Qball (Jun 22, 2010)

Yeah I was agreeing with what you said. When I said lube up, I meant stuff like wd-40, which I have actually had people ask if that would work.


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## gera229 (Dec 5, 2008)

gera229 said:


> I have been snowboarding a few times before using other peoples boards.
> Not sure what the weighted contact length is. Nor the wide to wide spot.
> 
> I have my snowboard and 2 more snowboards that are my brother's.
> ...


Can someone please answer?


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## TLN (Sep 7, 2010)

gera229 said:


> I have been snowboarding a few times before using other peoples boards.
> 
> Mines when put flat on ground seems like it's the least bent in the center and not as much lifted from the ground compared to their boards. Not sure if this matters.


This matters, but if you been snowboarding only a few times, this won't make any sense to you.



gera229 said:


> My boot size is 12 and my board is approx 10.3in wide at the spot where the bindings are. I measured from the bottom. My bare foot wouldn't stick out more than an inch if at all.


That's ok. You got to have Wide boards, and your board seems to be. 



gera229 said:


> 1 of my brothers board is 10.5in from one binding side and the other side is slightly smaller on the snowboard. Does it have to be wider at the tip or the tail assuming the tail is the back side?


This is tapering. It usualy made on a freeride boards to ride better in deep powder.



gera229 said:


> What side is that foot pad thingy supposed to be on?


 Before your back foot binding. You can put your foot there when on lift, this pad prevent slipping foot off.


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

gera229 said:


> Can someone please answer?


Sorry for the delay Gera, 

Your current Juju is not a great match for you. Your size 12 foot is 30 cm but your board at the inserts is only 26. That gives you 4 cm of barefoot overhang. Some of that might be eaten up by forward angle, but not enough. This board was not designed to be ridden with an Alpine stance. 

Also, the Juju's were relatively short on contact length, and your 158 will be a mix of too soft, too short, and too narrow for your specs.

There are many good models that will help you find the speed increase you are looking for.


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## gera229 (Dec 5, 2008)

I just did not have much to spend, so I found this board used and bought it with bindings. However any suggestions on a snowboard will be appreciated. I will try to see how this thing rides though. Thanks.


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

gera229 said:


> I just did not have much to spend, so I found this board used and bought it with bindings. However any suggestions on a snowboard will be appreciated. I will try to see how this thing rides though. Thanks.


You will be able to ride it for sure. Most of us started with gear that was MUCH worse in both fit and quality and still had a great time. I had understood that you were looking to maximize speed, and this Juju is not really a fit for that, but as an all around play board, yeah you will have your fun!


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## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

Op, respectfully, your questions about a faster board are a bit premature. Get more bomb time with what you got and when you are maxing out your available boards and wanting to go faster, then look at a board that will have capacity for more speed. Maxing out a board to the point of instability and beyond will help you to refine your speed technique/skills to handle a faster board....its about balls.


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## gera229 (Dec 5, 2008)

Sorry for the misunderstanding. When I raod someone elses board down a moutain i always stopped and fell due to the fear that the board twitched once it went to quick. I looked it up and noticed it had to do with the size. Just want to be safer next time.not sure whether it was b/c of the board or the snow. so i asked about speed.


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## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

A bigger board will seem more steady...but will also go faster and be more responsive...you got to be ON the responsiveness/reaction thing. High speed bombing, in a way its not the board that twitches...its the bomber...so you gotz to be fairly comfortable, competent and steady...so even if the board seems squirrily you don't over-react and do the twitch n ditch/bail...BUT competently bring it back under-control.


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## Triple8Sol (Nov 24, 2008)

You should get a LibTech Litigator 172 lol. Even back in the day it had rockered tip/tail for float in pow.


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## Cavman (Mar 1, 2010)

gera229 said:


> Sorry for the misunderstanding. When I raod someone elses board down a moutain i always stopped and fell due to the fear that the board twitched once it went to quick. I looked it up and noticed it had to do with the size. Just want to be safer next time.not sure whether it was b/c of the board or the snow. so i asked about speed.


Gerra, not sure of your riding style. Just make sure you keep an edge, in other words you are leaning slightly toe side or heel side, otherwise the base of the board is in contact with the snow and not the edges. This can allow the board to rotate under you and the last thing you want is for the leading side of the board to dig in and wham!!!

_History
# The practice of waxing skis started in California during the 1860s when gold miners discovered that covering their skis with vegetable or animal fat made them go faster down the hill. Commercial ski waxes have been made out of a variety of materials over the years, including vegetable oil, pine pitch and candle wax. _


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## gera229 (Dec 5, 2008)

Not sure if I should start a new thread about snowboard bindings. But I bought this board used and assuming the footpad is near the backfoot binding, then it was set up for goofy people. I am a normal with my left foot in front. So now I check the bindings and 1 bolt is missing out of 4 in one of the bindings, along with that I need to switch the bindings so that it would be normal. What do I need to look into to adjust the bindings after I switch them so that it would be for normal riders? Where can I buy a replacement bolt?


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## TLN (Sep 7, 2010)

gera229 said:


> Not sure if I should start a new thread about snowboard bindings. But I bought this board used and assuming the footpad is near the backfoot binding, then it was set up for goofy people. I am a normal with my left foot in front. So now I check the bindings and 1 bolt is missing out of 4 in one of the bindings, along with that I need to switch the bindings so that it would be normal. What do I need to look into to adjust the bindings after I switch them so that it would be for normal riders?


Just unscrew 7 and the bolts, change the bindings, and put them back on board. Use your usual angles as you ride. If you don't know the exact angles you ride put some mentioned "good to ride" angled. like 15/-15 for freestyle, or 18/-6. If you want to ride a higher speed(see topic name) better set somethink like 30/15 or similar. I suggest 24/9 would be ok also. Then after a couple of days you will adjust it to your needs. 
Anyway, if you wanna ride fast better set directional angles(all positive). 



gera229 said:


> Where can I buy a replacement bolt?


binding screws


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

gera229 said:


> What do I need to look into to adjust the bindings after I switch them so that it would be for normal riders? Where can I buy a replacement bolt?


You can get the required hardware at any board shop. Different lengths are available, so bring in your current hardware and have the shop match it up.

Here is some info on binding setup:

Anyone ever tell you that your snowboard bindings are as important as your board when it comes to performance? Uhh huh, uhh huh, thought so. Pretty good info actually. Bindings are your link to the board and if they're not working for you, that new Shawn Kass pro model won't make a bit of difference. That said, bindings have come a long way in the last 5 years, and these days even many basic binding models have great adjustability and the potential for a highly customized fit. But are you using the adjustability that is available, and if so, are you using it correctly? Dialing in your bindings with that extra little bit of tweaking can entirely change your riding experience and can unlock a level of comfort and performance that you may have been missing before.

Let's start at the most heelward (is that a word? It is now) adjustment. What is the correct setting for the highback's forward lean slider? This is going to depend both on your boots and your riding style. Without changing the factory setting for lean, place your tightly laced boot into the binding and fully tighten both straps. Now have a look at the profile of the boot and binding. Is the top of the highback in full contact with the back of the boot? Is the angle of the highback forcing the top of the boot forward or crushing the back of the boot inward towards the tongue? If the angle of the boot nicely nests into the angle of the highback, that is a great place to start. If not, you will want to adjust the highback so that it rests with light pressure against the back of the boot. Consider that your starting point before style of riding is even considered. OK, but I'm a freestyler and I like that full motion feel, what do I do? Some freestylers will back off the highback a few degrees from the point of light contact. That may allow a bit more range of motion. We suggest backing this off very gradually (if at all) because heelside edge control can be lost quickly and because some degree of leg and ankle support is always sacrificed. It is also important to remember that the highback itself will flex some (depending on design) and that flex may be more than enough without "boot-negative" angle. Yeah, but what about freeriders and carvers? Starting from the nesting point, gradually adjust forward in small increments. This will allow a more "instant" feeling heelside edge, but can also result in overlean and calf pain, so use it sparingly. Most riders will simply want to adjust to the nesting point and will happily leave this setting right there.

Heelcup adjustment is a little more complicated in that the term is often used to describe two separate and very different settings. The first should really be called highback rotation (and often is) even though this adjustment is made at the heelcup. The idea here is that when an angled stance is chosen, the highback becomes out of parallel with the board's edge. The rotation adjustment allows for the highback to be brought back in sync with the edge. The million dollar question is, should this be done? Does it help to have the back of the boot angled in one direction and the highback in another? There is no simple answer here. Highbacks are not always symmetrical, and boots come in a variety of sizes and shapes. That does not even begin to cover all of the different leg types that will enter the equation. The very best thing to do is to experiment. Strap into your gear on a carpeted floor at the factory settings and feel how the highback meets your contact points. You will get a surprisingly accurate feel for this even with no snow involved. Now rotate the highback to parallel with the edges and retest. We have done this thousands of times for riders, and most have a strong and immediate preference to this test. Many times an "in-between" selection will be made and that is just fine. There are no hard and fast rules to this, so let comfort guide you and don't hesitate to fine tune after a few snow sessions.

The second heelcup adjustment only applies to some bindings. These models have a heelcup which is free from the rest of the base. This allows the heel of the boot to be moved further out over the heelside edge. This is a centering feature which should be used to attain the same amount of overhang for both the toe and heel of the boot. It also allows for different sized boots to match up better with the contours of the bindings (for example where the arch curve lies). If this adjustment is not available on your bindings, no need to worry, centering can be achieved by use of the disk slider and contour can be matched by a more specific binding fit.

The adjustable disk is the source of great confusion as it potentially controls 3 separate realms of adjustment: stance angle, tip to tail position, and toeside to heelside position. We have recently covered stance angle in another post, so let's begin with the other two. It is important to note that most binding disks will allow for either tip to tail adjustment or toeside to heelside adjustment but will not allow for both. Of the two, toeside to heelside adjustment (centering) is far more important than fine tuning stance width (micro adjustments between the available insert positions on the board). If the disk is the only available means of adjusting toe to heel centering, and if your boots do not happen to be perfectly centered without adjustment, then choose to position the disk so that adjustment is allowed toeside to heelside. You will then want to adjust so that you have an equal amount of overhang for both toe and heel (at the stance angles that you have selected). It is important to note that the goal is to center the boots, not the bindings. A centered binding does not mean a centered boot. This is the single most important binding setting and will have a huge impact on your riding, so we would suggest spending the time in adjusting and readjusting to get this perfect.

How about an easy one? Some bindings have adjustable ramps (gas pedals). This is strictly a matter of aligning the ramps so that they fall comfortably under the contours of your particular boots and so that pressure can naturally be applied. This is typically adjusted by a slide screw that is found on the base of the bindings. When you have your boots on and you are strapped in to your bindings the correct position will very intuitive once found. We suggest leaving the set screw loose and sliding the ramps into various positions until the ahh-hah moment occurs. Then tighten them down and you are done.

What about straps? There are so many settings on them and I have no idea what to do. First off, it is important that the straps be adjusted so that they are easily inserted into the ratchets, and so that the contoured pads be aligned well with your boots (and feet). The first is fairly easy. With your boots tightly laced onto your foot, try to strap in. Does the ladder strap easily reach and enter the ratchet or is it a struggle to get even the first few teeth in? When fully tightened are you able to get a nice snug fit or do you hit the far end of the ladder strap and it is still not completely tight on your boots? You will need to adjust the straps to allow for easy access and firm tightening. If these two things cannot be achieved and still allow for a comfortable pad position, then you have the wrong size bindings. Many bindings allow for the pad position to be adjusted independently of the strap size. Others also allow for the straps to be moved forward or backward on the base. It is a common misconception that the pad should always be perfectly centered. That is not the case. Many bindings use asymmetrical pads that are designed to ride more over the inside of the foot. The bottom line on straps is comfort. A small adjustment in position can make a huge difference, so again, tweak and retweak. Your feet will thank you!


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