# Help with Eurocarves



## dustyturkey (Jan 6, 2018)

I've been practicing eurocarving and making good progress. I start the toe-side turn early and can full extend my body.
However, my turns feel way too quick and tight. My board is pretty much pointing straight down the mountain when I start the eurocarve, but the moment I extend my body, it feels like the sidecut engages and its a quick and tight arc and my turn is over in like a few seconds.
I watch a lot of Ryan Knapton's videos and Korua Shapes' Yearning for Turning videos and their eurocarves make a much bigger arc and the turn lasts a lot longer.
I think that I might be applying too much pressure on the front foot... but I'm not sure what I should be working on.
Any thoughts and tips? Thanks!


----------



## Donutz (May 12, 2010)

How does your track look? Is it a nice thin line? Or are you scarving?


----------



## dustyturkey (Jan 6, 2018)

Donutz said:


> How does your track look? Is it a nice thin line? Or are you scarving?


Yes its a nice pencil thin line when I'm carving.


----------



## Phedder (Sep 13, 2014)

What board are you riding? Ryan Knaptons board I think has a 12-13m sidecut radius, I'm guessing yours is between 7-8m. That alone will play a *huge* role in your turns. 

The rest, get a video.


----------



## dustyturkey (Jan 6, 2018)

I have the k2 simple pleasures 156 which has a 7.7m sidecut radius and a jones flagship 158 which has a 8.5m sidecut radius.
I guess in the future I should look for a board with a ~10m+ sidecut?


----------



## Phedder (Sep 13, 2014)

You can eurocarve on a board with any sidecut radius, but that radius is going to have a big effect on *how* it will carve. Like I said video is really your best bet to get good feedback.


----------



## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

dustyturkey said:


> I think that I might be applying too much pressure on the front foot...


Rather opposite, I'd say.

You reduce the radius instead of leave it open. Shifting weight to back foot does close the radius. 

Additionally: what's ur weight? Being in upper weight range makes boards fold to shorter radius quickly...

With doing open shoulder carves (shoulders fwd, knees/elbow to ground), it's easier to keep weight on front foot to keep the radius open. Now in eurocarves, as soon as you stretch out, belly to ground, shoulders are parallel to slope, i.e. your weight shifts away from front if you don't avtively monitor. Try to stay more over front foot.


----------



## dustyturkey (Jan 6, 2018)

I weigh 175 lbs and I guess I should work on shifting and maintaining weight over the front.
I would love to get a video of myself but I ride solo so that's a little difficult. I guess I have to also work on driving my hips forward at bit in the carve.


----------



## Kijima (Mar 3, 2019)

To start euro carve you need to be travelling across the hill, not down the hill. 
If your board is pointing down the hill you are already half way through the turn and are not in a position to start laying it down. 

Its the top part of the turn that gives you time to lay it down, the bottom part of the turn is party time. 

You absolutely NEED a super wide board. Im riding a 30.5cm waist board on US10 burton boots and still needing to finess the edge to avoid booting out even on very hard snow.


----------



## Kijima (Mar 3, 2019)

neni said:


> dustyturkey said:
> 
> 
> > I think that I might be applying too much pressure on the front foot...
> ...


No you have it back to front Neni. Too much weight on the front will really bend the nose around shortening the radius. 
Standing over the back will produce a larger radius turn.
Another thing that makes a snowboard fold up too much in a euro carve is a small radius sidecut, or long effective edge. Such a board when on edge has quite a deep sidecut, only flexing the board can make that edge touch the snow.


----------



## bazman (Jan 15, 2017)

Very good info about sidecut radius in these vids

Part 1
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=uE1YdDj_L0o

Part 2
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hFjq741bkbI


----------



## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

Kijima said:


> No you have it back to front Neni. Too much weight on the front will really bend the nose around shortening the radius.
> Standing over the back will produce a larger radius turn.
> Another thing that makes a snowboard fold up too much in a euro carve is a small radius sidecut, or long effective edge. Such a board when on edge has quite a deep sidecut, only flexing the board can make that edge touch the snow.


Yeah... maybe the essence why we see both ways lies in the "too", and the type of boards.

My obervations stem from a bit above mid flex CRC with 120EE and 7.5m radius, stiffer nose/tail. As soon as I shift weight to the rear, the radius closes. As long as I keep weight (not "too" much but just enough, more than on back, tho) on front, radius stays open.


----------



## Kijima (Mar 3, 2019)

neni said:


> Yeah... maybe the essence why we see both ways lies in the "too", and the type of boards.
> 
> My obervations stem from a bit above mid flex CRC with 120EE and 7.5m radius, stiffer nose/tail. As soon as I shift weight to the rear, the radius closes. As long as I keep weight (not "too" much but just enough, more than on back, tho) on front, radius stays open.


The little bump in your board does not change the mechanics of snowboarding.


----------



## Rip154 (Sep 23, 2017)

Different flex changes quite a bit tho, and crc can be weird for carving. Taking swallowtails as an example (we are past the bumps now), you can lean on the tail to get a tighter turn. The Simple Pleasures has sidecut and width matching the Knapton board, but is setback, tapered and softer. Moving stance forward could help some, but it's mostly practice and watching others/vids.


----------



## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

I don't argue about that in general, having weight on tail or tip has a certain effect as you say . Will monitor next time on slopes what effect stationary front vs back weight has.

What I meant is that the _shifting_, i.e. montion, i.e. force creation can be a source. _Moving_ weight to back is a motion which can create force, depending on how pronounced. Like, if I start a carve on front foot (i.e. 60/40 distribution), low in knees, and then shift weight in the apex (where there anyway is the most force by gravity), I increase the force on edge even more, and this increased force leads to a tighter radius. Fun to do to load up board, but creates a different turn shape than OP looks for. OTOH, if a long drawn out carve is the aim, I don't do this pronounced weight shift, i.e. +/- stay quite passively on the initial distribution, which in my case means, I concentrate on _staying_ where I was initially, which keeps the radius even.

That CRC I ride ATM reacts tremendously on the weight shift, btw. Way more than the camber boards I have. Pushing back leg at apex leads to a very sudden tightening of radius.

Dunno how the board reacts to a vice versa shift as I honestly have never tried a carve beginning with more weight on back foot. Will do next time on slope, too. 

OP, Ryan covers another source of what you mention in his no 7 tutorial, focusing on the timing; ffwd to 8:00 https://youtu.be/OtkQfp9hBGM


----------



## timmytard (Mar 19, 2009)

Kijima said:


> To start euro carve you need to be travelling across the hill, not down the hill.
> If your board is pointing down the hill you are already half way through the turn and are not in a position to start laying it down.
> 
> Its the top part of the turn that gives you time to lay it down, the bottom part of the turn is party time.
> ...


Sure:dry: your board is 30.5 @ the waist:blahblah::blahblah::blahblah::blahblah:

Pics or it didn't happen.
Next you're gonna say it's some kind of fancy blue speckled wood Bwa ha.


TT


----------



## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

Subscribed...soon will be attempting euro carves thanks to TT and hardboots. So any tips for a noob...such as ++ angles and techniques.


----------



## mantonakakis (Mar 16, 2017)

timmytard said:


> Sure:dry: your board is 30.5 @ the waist:blahblah::blahblah::blahblah::blahblah:


I have size 11 boots and I am also on a 30.5cm waist 9.2m sidecut twin (thanks Mr. Donek!). Relative beginner here, but starting to get my carves locked in. Not full-on eurocarving with perfect pencil lines in the snow every time, but on occasion I can get it right... moderate carves with 45ish tilt angle are pretty consistent now, sometimes I can hit like 70deg or more briefly in a turn, usually at the start.

The board makes TIGHT turns when I can keep it locked in. My eyeball tape measure says about 3m radius turn when it's a really aggressive clean carve, so I've been having the same question as OP in my mind. If I was on a sheet of ice, I could get about 80deg board tilt before my boots touch the surface, obviously less in softer snow. 

Knapton is on like a 14.5m sidecut lately, and his board is very very stiff. I have the "soft" flex version of his board and it is subjectively twice as stiff as my previous board (circa 2006 NeverSummer Legacy 163W, 8 or 9 out of 10 on their flex scale at the time).
Also, I'm not sure he's always going very fast when he does his laid-out carves, GoPro wide-angle lens can make the speed seem faster than it actually is - and he doesn't always maintain crazy edge angles throughout his laid-out turns, all of which means his turns last much longer.
Anyway, his first Donek board(s) were I believe 8.7m radius and he was still able to make some ridiculous turns, so I think there is a lot to be gained re:longer duration turns, from technique, for me at least.

As I've been progressing I've been realizing that:

Full camber, quite stiff board that's wide enough for high edge angles without booting out can make a VERY tight turn when it decambers - much tighter than the sidecut radius.
As mentioned by others, keeping more weight on the front foot seems to flex the nose more and thus tighten the turn.
Conversely, shifting weight towards the tail throughout the turn seems to prevent the turn from staying super tight and makes it last longer (but I need more time experimenting with it, and it makes sense that this somewhat depends on your board's structure). Also seems to help with keeping the clean carve locked in.
There is zero chance I could make even my medium-edge angle turns with any smaller waist width than I have right now. I was booting out every time on a 26.5 waist board before I could come close to the board tilt I achieve now, probably at 40deg tilt I was booting out.
Maybe there's something to the fact that skis have like 2-3 times the sidecut radius of snowboards even though it's a lot harder to get skis to as aggressive of an edge angle as a snowboard... (besides the fact that they're easier to decamber due to width and binding placement).
Also as mentioned by others, starting the turn while traversing across the run makes it last a lot longer, but now you accelerate through the first half of the turn so you have to be going slower (which can make the turn last more than twice as long). 
SLOWING DOWN and sticking to pretty flat green runs improved my skill level immensely, see above. I was able to transition from turn initiation down the fall line to maybe even slightly uphill sometimes.


----------



## Kijima (Mar 3, 2019)

My body type is opposite to knaptons and although he definitely inspired me to learn to carve his methods simply dont work for me so I have learned toe side and heel side lay down carves by my own methods. 
Im happy to talk about my methods if anyone is interested but I really dont want to act like I know it all, I only recently learned this stuff myself. 

We are all beginners at this, lets leave the egos at the door and build an a thread that will stand the test of time. Lets not get wound up in a battle of forum identities as so many potentially interesting threads on forums suffer.


----------



## mantonakakis (Mar 16, 2017)

Kijima said:


> My body type is opposite to knaptons and although he definitely inspired me to learn to carve his methods simply dont work for me so I have learned toe side and heel side lay down carves by my own methods.
> Im happy to talk about my methods if anyone is interested but I really dont want to act like I know it all, I only recently learned this stuff myself.
> 
> We are all beginners at this, lets leave the egos at the door and build an a thread that will stand the test of time. Lets not get wound up in a battle of forum identities as so many potentially interesting threads on forums suffer.


Yeah my body type is a bit different too, a bit lanky. Would be super interested in hearing your methods!


----------



## smellysell (Oct 29, 2018)

mantonakakis said:


> Yeah my body type is a bit different too, a bit lanky. Would be super interested in hearing your methods!


Me too

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


----------



## timmytard (Mar 19, 2009)

wrathfuldeity said:


> Subscribed...soon will be attempting euro carves thanks to TT and hardboots. So any tips for a noob...such as ++ angles and techniques.


I wouldn't mind getting g a proper hard boot setup.
I've only tried it once & for only 1 run in the pissing rain.

Wearing huge boots that were already set up for the board I rode.
So I know I wasn't even close to centered on the board.

It was still a blast.

I think already knowing how to snowboard, makes a BIG difference in how sharp your learning curve is.
Which interprets to a hell of a lot of fun.


TT


----------



## Kijima (Mar 3, 2019)

I made a new thread here 

https://www.snowboardingforum.com/t...oaching/261439-eurocarving-kijima-method.html


----------



## jerry gnarcia (Feb 11, 2017)

wrathfuldeity said:


> Subscribed...soon will be attempting euro carves thanks to TT and hardboots. So any tips for a noob...such as ++ angles and techniques.


Do you ride at Baker? That sounds like an awful place to eurocarve.


----------



## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

jerry gnarcia said:


> Do you ride at Baker? That sounds like an awful place to eurocarve.


yes and yes...but if I can learn to do it there...I could do it anywheres


----------



## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

wrathfuldeity said:


> yes and yes...but if I can learn to do it there...I could do it anywheres


So true. Great way to practice sharp short turns. 

But... My resort only has dwarfish narrow crowded runs. Oh man, how I cherish those super wide empty groomers when doing trips! Feels like whooooo-hoooooo, I can keeeeeeep this tuuuuuuurn foreeeevereeer...

In your books, was Crystal wide or narrow? To me, it already was wide (compared to my home, but narrow compared to other places).


----------



## deagol (Mar 26, 2014)

neni said:


> So true. Great way to practice sharp short turns.
> 
> But... My resort only has dwarfish narrow crowded runs. Oh man, how I cherish those super wide empty groomers when doing trips! Feels like whooooo-hoooooo, I can keeeeeeep this tuuuuuuurn foreeeevereeer...
> ...


so true, having wide uncrowded runs is definitely a plus. 

This isn't eurocarving, but is a good example of a wide uncrowded run turn


----------



## Mig Fullbag (Apr 15, 2014)

deagol said:


> This isn't eurocarving, but is a good example of a wide uncrowded run turn
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w3kMwjuacHo


Nice! A thousand times better looking and stylish than the two hands down stuff, as far as I am concerned.


----------



## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

neni said:


> So true. Great way to practice sharp short turns.
> 
> But... My resort only has dwarfish narrow crowded runs. Oh man, how I cherish those super wide empty groomers when doing trips! Feels like whooooo-hoooooo, I can keeeeeeep this tuuuuuuurn foreeeevereeer...
> 
> In your books, was Crystal wide or narrow? To me, it already was wide (compared to my home, but narrow compared to other places).


Crystal was wide and long compared to Baker...sure there are a few wider spots...but they are also flat. That day at Crystal (the only time), I thought was fun...empty, wide groomers and more consistent fall lines.


----------

