# How to handle steeper blues?



## Donutz (May 12, 2010)

I can handle most terrain, although not the fastest or steadiest by any stretch. But the one type of terrain that just gives me fits is moderate to steep blue runs when the snow is chopped up. I know that for real diagnostics you'd need a vid, and I don't have one. But is there perhaps a video someone can point to of a not-totally-professional snowboarder going down that type of terrain properly? If I can review how it should be done, maybe I can figure out what's giving me problems.


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## KIRKRIDER (Mar 18, 2008)

Donutz said:


> I can handle most terrain, although not the fastest or steadiest by any stretch. But the one type of terrain that just gives me fits is moderate to steep blue runs when the snow is chopped up. I know that for real diagnostics you'd need a vid, and I don't have one. But is there perhaps a video someone can point to of a not-totally-professional snowboarder going down that type of terrain properly? If I can review how it should be done, maybe I can figure out what's giving me problems.


Don...When the snow is chopped up..and transformed....frozen or chunked up it sucks for everybody...not just for you. I try to avoid leg eating snow like that, horrid frozen moguls, very deep traced pow...when going trough someone else's trace is like stepping down 2 feet...deadly for the knees. It's just fatiguing. I try to stay on top of the snow heaps and surf it like a wave if I Can ..avoiding the step up-down movement. A stiff board might help plow trough it.


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## atr3yu (Feb 15, 2012)

KIRKRIDER said:


> Don...When the snow is chopped up..and transformed....frozen or chunked up it sucks for everybody...not just for you. I try to avoid leg eating snow like that, horrid frozen moguls, very deep traced pow...when going trough someone else's trace is like stepping down 2 feet...deadly for the knees. It's just fatiguing. I try to stay on top of the snow heaps and surf it like a wave if I Can ..avoiding the step up-down movement. A stiff board might help plow trough it.


Omg, nice to hear your description of that. Lots of my hill was like that today. Left over powder chopped up to hell and slightly frozen. It just beats the crap out of me. I also experience random 1 - 2 foot drops when turn toe side in this terrain. Glad to know its not entirely me.


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## KIRKRIDER (Mar 18, 2008)

atr3yu said:


> Omg, nice to hear your description of that. Lots of my hill was like that today. Left over powder chopped up to hell and slightly frozen. It just beats the crap out of me. I also experience random 1 - 2 foot drops when turn toe side in this terrain. Glad to know its not entirely me.


Nope. I too prefer untouched immaculate slopes with a foot and a half of fresh and no crowds  Last time pow was knee deep. But wet. Pretty slow and fatiguing to ride.


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## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

idk, but slow it down and approach it like moguls...keep legs/knees loose and independent, pick/weave your line and billygoat.


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## Casual (Feb 9, 2011)

Stay to the sides of the run it might be better off. Mainly just stay really loose and absorb the bumps and ride dynamic. Make sure your looking far enough ahead to pick your line too and avoid the real shitty stuff. Honestly I find it much less wearing to stay loose and plow over it fast then fight and ride though it. Obviously it takes a bit more skill to do that but the only way to obtain that skill is to charge it  if it's not icy and hard the risk factor is not that high.


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## KIRKRIDER (Mar 18, 2008)

Or plan your day around shitty snow...if you can. I get there super early to get first chair, ride the good stuff easy to reach, then move away from the obvious terrain as I keep looking for fresh lines. When the snow is reduced to moguls, ice chunks or just frozen pack head to the park if you still have legs left or for a beer. To me that';s not worth riding anymore...But you can still use that time to ride a green run switch..or learn new stuff...It's all so subjective...


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## atr3yu (Feb 15, 2012)

KIRKRIDER said:


> Or plan your day around shitty snow...if you can. I get there super early to get first chair, ride the good stuff easy to reach, then move away from the obvious terrain as I keep looking for fresh lines. When the snow is reduced to moguls, ice chunks or just frozen pack head to the park if you still have legs left or for a beer. To me that';s not worth riding anymore...But you can still use that time to ride a green run switch..or learn new stuff...It's all so subjective...


I am almost considering getting two new boards next season just so I have a park board for shitty days. The only issue with that is our park sux shit =(


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## Casual (Feb 9, 2011)

I guess another thing to mention if the above is not an option is to load up your front foot like 75% of your weigh and pivot on it rather than fighting the heavy snow with your back foot. This works in moguls as well and mega steep terrain.


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## KIRKRIDER (Mar 18, 2008)

Sure...But I can tell when I spend more energy reacting to the terrain than actually riding on it...it's time to go. Frankly I carefully plan my days around that. I don't do park at all (I'm 46) I just drive up after a storm and ride the powder for the day. If I go on a groomer day is because the kids or my wife asked for it. No pow...no riding for me


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## Donutz (May 12, 2010)

Well this is a bit of an eye-opener. I thought I must be doing something wrong, because riding on this stuff when it gets like that just _kills_ my legs! And knees... I do see other boarders who just bomb the run and do abrupt braking maneuvers every once in a while to bleed off speed. That looks easier, but not more fun.

OK, if it's not just me then there isn't something I'm missing, then I'm just going to take everyone's advice and head for the park or the glades, or do what grafta's always saying and just do side hits off the greens.

:thumbsup:


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## Sick-Pow (May 5, 2008)

Going faster is always more fun ( and easier). Skiers pick their way around, we on big ass boards SHOULD bomb it when possible.


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## KIRKRIDER (Mar 18, 2008)

Sick-Pow said:


> Going faster is always more fun ( and easier). Skiers pick their way around, we on big ass boards SHOULD bomb it when possible.


Ride faster on tired legs and you have no control...And I see skier's too eating it at the end of the day  
I'll tell you Monday at the end of the day...going up Kwood again...should be good after the weekend crowds


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## Kwanzaa (Sep 4, 2011)

Donutz said:


> I can handle most terrain, although not the fastest or steadiest by any stretch. But the one type of terrain that just gives me fits is moderate to steep blue runs when the snow is chopped up. I know that for real diagnostics you'd need a vid, and I don't have one. But is there perhaps a video someone can point to of a not-totally-professional snowboarder going down that type of terrain properly? If I can review how it should be done, maybe I can figure out what's giving me problems.


I've found going slack helps me alot. If you have decent balance you just bounce along with the snow and it don't wear you out to much.


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## grafta (Dec 21, 2009)

Donutz said:


> Well this is a bit of an eye-opener. I thought I must be doing something wrong, because riding on this stuff when it gets like that just _kills_ my legs! And knees... I do see other boarders who just bomb the run and do abrupt braking maneuvers every once in a while to bleed off speed. That looks easier, but not more fun.
> 
> OK, if it's not just me then there isn't something I'm missing, then I'm just going to take everyone's advice and head for the park or the glades, or do what grafta's always saying and just do side hits off the greens.
> 
> :thumbsup:


I think the more you ride moguls and big nasty bumps the better you get at picking your lines. Get to the top of a section and look down at where looks easiest and if it all sucks then try to get some rhythm going on and ride it out.

Yeah the Whistler kids make me feel stupid. They bomb past and hit something huge and make it look so easy and relaxed. It's practice on that terrain and conditioning I think.

edit > fixed it: 



 :laugh:



Sick-Pow said:


> Going faster is always more fun ( and easier). Skiers pick their way around, we on big ass boards SHOULD bomb it when possible.


That comes across like you think EVERYONE should think the same thing as you :laugh: FYI, my girlfriends two planks are quite a bit longer than my board. Do you ride anywhere with good skiers? Plenty round here that slay whatever they are hitting and I don't see them nancying 'around' anything


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## Bayoh (Dec 17, 2010)

It's good to know it's not just me who has trouble with this terrain. I would have to stop and let my legs/knees recover just from the constant strain it puts on them. Thought I was just doing it wrong, but I guess there's no way not to get tired in that kind of conditions haha.


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## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

Ride chop/moguls when you are fresh, its not about reacting to them...its about anticipating them. So you got to keep your legs loose and suck up your knees going over; don't fight by trying to stop and turn...your legs will be too stiff and you'll get bucked. But learn to float over them...catching a bit of air is fine...no reason to freak. In turns you will be really compressed...squatting down low...getting the board to really de-camber to grab the edge...but that will be followed by launching/popping to the next edge...like billy goat hopping from edge to edge. You will learn to pop and swing that board around underneith you...which is much easier and faster than trying to move your upper body around...try to keep your leading shoulder pointed down the fall line and then move your lower body around. When you get a rythym going by looking and anticipating your line it will be more efficient and less tiring.


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## Donutz (May 12, 2010)

OK, so it seems I _have to_ go back to Whistler to practice and get some more conditioning on this kind of terrain. It's an obligation thing.

(Yeah, yeah, that's the ticket) :laugh:


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## LuckyRVA (Jan 18, 2011)

I normally try to straight line as much as possible over the really choppy stuff and pick the correct time to scrub off speed. The stuff tires me out like no other. Plus, I typically find these types of conditions later in the day which makes matters worse. I thought I was the only one. This thread makes me feel better.


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## poutanen (Dec 22, 2011)

Snowolf said:


> When it gets bumpy, ride slower that is a key element too many snowboarders don`t get. Especially for us older guys who don`t have the 19 year old stamina to just bruiser our way through it. We have to rider smarter not harder if....


+1, and this goes for any chopped up run. To some extent in choppy powder you can put more weight on your back foot to bring the nose up to ride over instead of through the chop (think of a boat up on a plane).

But the main thing is to ride a speed you're comfortable with, and pick your line. There are a million ways down a run, and looking well beyond where you're riding should help you pick your lines ahead of time. Actually I rode in a fair bit of chop yesterday, I could post a vid if anyone wanted. When I paused to wheeze at the side of the trail about half way down, and 4 year olds on skis when bombing past, I just smiled.


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## t21 (Dec 29, 2010)

i would normally just do dynamic turns(skidded/scarving) on choppy stuff a tad squatting down form but it does tire me out since i'm kindda old too. today was more spent on black mogul runs and that is a freaking workout. but i think the flexion/extension technique works good if i can only keep my legs to keep pumping a little bit longer


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## nataku (Apr 21, 2011)

I'm glad it's not just me when I was having trouble with bumpy and choppy snow on the blue runs I was riding the past couple of weeks. It took me a while to learn how to pick lines (going around mounds of snow instead of trying to ride over them), and falling in the deeper snow really tired me out in addition to the riding. Spent a lot of time on the ground just catching my breath and resting.


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## Donutz (May 12, 2010)

Snowolf said:


> And an important thing to remember when riding conditions like this is it really makes you a better rider. You may not think so at the time but where you notice it is when you go back out and ride on a good day. That's when you get the " wow" moment.


I just got a taste of this. Yesterday was my first day back on Seymour after 4 days on Whistler. Damn, what a difference! I hit everything yesterday, and blasted through stuff that used to intimidate me. Also my stamina was way up -- I did 11 hours on Seymour no problem.


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## poutanen (Dec 22, 2011)

Snowolf said:


> And an important thing to remember when riding conditions like this is it really makes you a better rider. You may not think so at the time but where you notice it is when you go back out and ride on a good day. That's when you get the " wow" moment.


Yeah this is another reason I'll ride through anything (and I encourage my GF to as well). I'd rather ride through choppy snow than hard pack groomed ice anyway! :laugh: At least chop is predictable.

Plus most of the glades I've been in get choppy about half a day after a snowfall, so if you want to play in the trees, you gotta be able to handle the bumps.


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## D1CKER1 (Dec 27, 2010)

Snowolf said:


> And an important thing to remember when riding conditions like this is it really makes you a better rider. You may not think so at the time but where you notice it is when you go back out and ride on a good day. That's when you get the " wow" moment.


Agree.
I've been used to riding groomed surfaces. With the occasional
Powder. And like you said I don't turn away from the mountain 
If conditions are shitty


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## snowklinger (Aug 30, 2011)

Snowolf said:


> And an important thing to remember when riding conditions like this is it really makes you a better rider. You may not think so at the time but where you notice it is when you go back out and ride on a good day. That's when you get the " wow" moment.


My whole season has been practice for the good days (not this year).


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## Intheshit (Jan 8, 2012)

sliding turns with lots of unweighting. unweighting is like making your feet lighter as you perform the slide, gives you a sort of "tricky" feel to regular riding. Cant give a detailed verbal instruction on it at this time. just think about sucking up the chunky parts and finding a nice spot to dig in afterwords. Gives you a sort of floaty up down up down up down feeling when you ride , rhythm.

and yeah, im a tree line guy myself, nice tight turns down the fresh stuff because most people are afraid of losing it to a trunk. *shrug* dont blame any concussions on me.


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## Intheshit (Jan 8, 2012)

yeah, i guess say there is a chunk in front of you, what you want to do is turn on the very top of that chunk, to do that you are going to suck your knees up and rotate , then push back down to regain control. it just feels more slippery.

- think about rotating on the very center of your board as well.


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## jdang307 (Feb 6, 2011)

I just conquered this at squaw last week (and alpine). Snowolf hit the nail on the head, again. Instead of trying to cut through it (I couldn't) I figured out, you gotta ride on top of it. It was soft, not iced over (it did get iced over towards the end of the day and I then proceeded to eat snow).

I don't point it straight down, but at a slight angle, usually toe side because I feel more comfortable. Then really really really loose legs. Bent at the knees, back straight. Other than the occasional launch, My torso almost stays the same while my legs act as suspension absorbing all of the bumps and mounds. It was the fastest I ever went on such terrain and was a real confidence booster.

I bled off speed with the occasional toe side skid (probably not protocol but that's what I did). It's pretty exhilarating when you figure it out. After my 3rd year, I finally did.

Out of necessity. My legs were too fucking tired trying to navigate steep terrain with choppy snow. I was being a pussy and braking every few seconds. My legs literally burned and my knee was getting shot and I was a long way from base. So I sucked it up and pointed it down.


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## Leo (Nov 24, 2009)

Snowolf said:


> And an important thing to remember when riding conditions like this is it really makes you a better rider. You may not think so at the time but where you notice it is when you go back out and ride on a good day. That's when you get the " wow" moment.


This is always my argument to people who bash the ice coast. I always tell big mountain people that their worst day is our best. 

While we don't have the vert and level of steeps, those are our only obstacles when riding on a big mountain. 

For example, when I went to Tahoe last year, I had 0 issues riding the terrain other than experiencing my first real epic pow day. Even then, I picked up pow riding in a snap. The only daunting thing out west was the vert (lung killer) and steep runs (scary). Didn't catch an edge or wash out any of the 3 days I rode there. Felt great.

Learning to ride bad snow makes you a much better rider on good snow.


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## aiidoneus (Apr 7, 2011)

@Leo I totally agree, I ride both east and west. West's average day is east's best.

For me it really depends on what type of bumpy terrain we are talking about. If it is fully formed moguls, I ride between them, using the mogul as a speed check at the end of my turn of I need to, or sometimes I brace off the mogul and ride over the top. I prefer the first approach, but it requires more timing and quick transitions.

If it is a busy pow day, and the runs are now filled with fluffy bumpy snow. Since the snow isn't hard you can still mostly carve through it, but you need to steer earlier in the turn to minimize how much you move down the hill. The problem is if you drop too much you get the choppy bouncy feeling as you go from puffy pow to harder base. The more elongated (open) your turn is, the more you will get the choppy feeling. Except if you point the board mostly down the hill you just ride through all the crude, it is more work, but way faster and more fun.


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## grafta (Dec 21, 2009)

Saw a kid, probably 15 or 16, throw a 360 gapping between two pretty big moguls on a double black at Apex this weekend. Landing that he rode straight down smacking a tree line at warp 9. *sigh*


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## JeffreyCH (Nov 21, 2009)

It was kinda funny I read this thread this morning, while waiting for th bus up to A-basin. I got pretty excited that it was snowing this morning. I knew it would be icy in the morning, but damn!! All that nice spring corn I was riding yesterday turned to fucking boilerplate!! It did snow all day up there, but never thawed, you could see spots all over where the cat went over it and just made scratches in the ice. As the fresh snow started to stick, there would be patchs of soft fresh, exposed ice, fresh, ice,..... every where!!

I kept hoping that it would warm up a bit and get softer as the day went on, nope, it got downright nasty. Wind blowing, and just enough snow to hide the hard icy parts. No time to really pick a line, I had to watch what was happening right in front of me. Since I ride a speed bump in Ia. most of the time I'm fairly used to these conditions, last year I learned to pull a rescue sled in this type of crap. Still, big mountain is completly different, there were parts on the steeper blues that I would be sideslipping full on my heels and hardly slowing down at all. 

This is where learning to ride efficiently is the key, when I would hit a spot that was soft I would use that to skid my turn to bleed speed, then hold a hard edge on the ice and carve over it. I tend to ride a little more upright, not a lot, still flexed in my knees, but just enough so I have a little more travel in my knees. To me this feels like it takes less effort to un-weight when changing edges, and if I hit a bump or soft spot while changing edges it gives more range to flex rather then bottoming out. 

I have to agree with Snowolf, riding in these conditions makes you a much better rider. Yesterday in the slush, I was bombing, with a nice beer buzz, no cares, just letting my muscle memory and instincs take control. Today, I had to focus 110% on what I was doing (no beer buzz at all) I did make it down the front side 11 times today with only 1 wash out on my heelside.


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