# AASI Cert 2 Candidates - What are your Divisions riding tasks?



## daysailer1 (Nov 9, 2007)

I'm curious. What are your division's riding tasks for Cert 2? I'm assuming they are similar. I'm in the Rocky Mountain Div. which covers Colorado, Arizona, New Mexico, Nebraska, Texas, Southern Wyoming. This is our list.


POSSIBLE LEVEL 2 AND 3 RIDING TASKS

SKIDDED TURNS (SHORT, MEDIUM, LONG)
DYNAMIC SKIDDED TURNS (SHORT, MEDIUM, LONG)
CARVED TURNS (SHORT, MEDIUM, LONG)
DYNAMIC CARVED TURNS (SHORT, MEDIUM, LONG)
TREES
STEEPS
CRUD
POWDER (IF ANY)
SWITCH SKIDDED TURNS
SWITCH CARVED TURNS
TOE TO TOE
HEEL TO HEEL
BUMPS (SHORT, MEDIUM, LONG)
SWITCH BUMPS
FLAT GROUND 180’S, 360’S
FLAT GROUND 180’S, 360’S IN BUMPS
FRONT SIDE 180's
BACK SIDE 180's
HOP TURNS
LONG TURNS TO SHORT TURNS (funnel turns)
SHORT TURNS TO LONG TURNS (funnel turns)
CROSS UNDER TURNS
CROSSOVER TURNS
HALF PIPE RIDING
50/50 BOARD OR RAILSLIDES
TABLE TOPS
RACE COURSE


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## Guest (May 30, 2008)

Damn I would not come close to clearing that list. I think Snow wants to get his level 2 cert, but not sure on that.


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## daysailer1 (Nov 9, 2007)

Snowolf is working on obtaining his Cert 2 in the AASI-PNW Division and I'm working on mine in the Rocky Mtn Div. I'm trying to get together an active study group. I've just about got everything ticked off on this list. I need some polish on a few items. We have to demo these tasks flawlessly before our examiners or we fail the Riding Day Exam. I need to also work on the Movement Analysis Exam, and Teaching Exam. I figure participating in forum discussions can help in these areas.


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## Guest (May 30, 2008)

So what are the benefits of having a cert 2??? What is the investment?


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## daysailer1 (Nov 9, 2007)

Investment so far:

costs to get Cert Level 1 - probably around $300.00;


Costs so far to get Cert Level 2

01/07/2008	Snowboard Cert 2 Prep Clinic: Movement Analysis day fee $70.00
01/08/2008	Snowboard Level 2 Prep Clinic: Riding day fee $70.00
01/09/2008	Snowboard Cert 2 Prep Clinic: Instruction day fee $70.00
01/08/2008	Snowboard Written Exam Level 2 fee $20.00

Training books, DVD's, etc. ~ $ 150.00

unpaid training time - clinics, shadowing classes, book study time; gas, hotel fee - hundred's of $$

costs still to incur:
Riding Day exam fee $ 140.00
Movement Analysis Day exam fee $ 140.00
Teaching Day exam fee $ 140.00
more hotel fees

Benefits:
-Our riding, teaching, MA improves
-A modest salary increase
-promotion potential
-Higher seniority - results in getting higher level classes which are generally smaller than the never-evers 
-get a class before lower cert's at lineup
-assigned more coveted classes
-better chance to be assigned to private lessons which are higher paying and these clients tend to tip much better, it's hard to get tips from the lower levels (tips are earned and we try hard to give guests what they want)
-Most high end resorts only hire instructors with a minimum of a Cert 2
-Cert 2 is much more respected than Cert 1
-it's a prerequiste for Cert 3
-other intangibles


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## Bones (Feb 24, 2008)

*Thanks*

Just a thanks to instructors who really are into teaching.

I realize the job has some benefits, but let's face it: nobody instructs for the money. I put a lot of time and effort into my riding, but that's selfish as I am the one who gets the benefit. I think it's very cool that people put this level of time and personal $$ into being a better teacher.


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## daysailer1 (Nov 9, 2007)

> Too often you see the "kid with a board" doing this for a free pass and they duck out of lineup, bail on classes and when they do teach, it is pretty pathetic.


They try not to even hire these types at Winter Park. They may last two weekends, ruin customer satisfaction, and are a lost investment on time. WP tries to only hire people at the Cert 2 level or equivalent but will make exceptions if you come with a good recommendation and several seasons of prior teaching experience. Last year of all the Intrawest resorts in NA, ours was rated the top school in customer satisfaction. We did slip to #3 this season - Copper and Whistler beat us this year. Sometimes a few make it through the hiring process.  Of my new hire class of around 8 people, I think I am the only one left. That's due to a variety of reasons.

Colorado does have a unique market. Season passes are fairly cheap here so people don't go for the free pass route as often. The destination resorts have considerable number of full-timers and they do need to make a decent paycheck. They still use part-timers for high season times. That said, even as a part-timer I need to get certain costs covered. It takes me two hours to drive to WP in good weather and due to I-70 traffic I'm leaving my house at 5:15 AM. I need the training benefits too. At my last hill getting $7.00 - $ 8.00/hr wasn't covering gas money and essentially no training. I'm quite satisfied with things at WP.

Never-ever classes can be some of the most rewarding. Being able to see people go from zero to linking turns is incredibly rewarding. I had an Australian surfer dude who went from zero to linking turns on gentle blues in 1.5 hours. It peeved his girlfriend somewhat and she was no slouch either. 

It's fun to convert skiers too. I've turned quite a few onto it. You can play with the adults too! If you have a couple in the group and the wife picks it up quicker than the husband, it's interesting to see/hear the response when you tell the husband (within the wife's earshot) "she's making you look bad". The wife loves you and the husband gets more motivated.

The riding tasks are really more something that has to be done between you and the trainer. They can spot the flaws and tell you how to get there. I was just curious if you guys had the same stuff. I've always had poor leg strength and I could stand to lose 40lb. I'm planning on going into next season with more leg strength. In RM you have to have the solid basics but they believe in "riding versatility". Some tasks are optional but do expect you to be able to do them all. If Chris says you are ready, you are ready. I know I'm not. I focused on riding tasks this season.

The written test was straight out of the books. The new AASI Snowboard Guide, Core Concepts, MA handbook, some was out of the Vail Snowboard Handbook.

From now on I'm focusing more on MA and Teaching. I experienced the Teaching segment panic. The clinician basically said something like "teach (insert board performance concept here) in the context of (a specified riding task)". You have to do the whole stationary, simple, complex, freeride with appropriate teaching concepts along the way. With limited teaching time at that level in January, my mind conveniently went blank. I'm working on that.

I've got to work harder on the MA too. I need to get to the stage where within three turns you can detect the flaws and how to correct. Notice the New Zealand terms? :laugh: Our trainers are NZ'rs and they use a different terminology. The NZ system seems to be much more rigorous than the AASI. I need a more efficient way to take notes on the indoors film part of the exam. People had a sheet of paper a divided into four quadrants. One for each board performance. 

I hear you on the bad habits. I rode with a set for many years. Only when I started teaching did I realize how inefficiently I rode. They creep up on me too. Some wonder if I will ever be able to break a few. I sometimes find myself reverting in big moguls and using upper body rotation for turn initiation. How embarrasing.


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## daysailer1 (Nov 9, 2007)

Snowolf said:


> In a lot of our clinics, we take a video camera then critique back in the lounge. Sometimes it`s fun to see what others are seeing in your riding; sometimes its not so fun...:laugh:


Yeah, we did it too this season. It's painful sometimes getting your riding picked apart. It took me a few years to learn to not take things so personal and accept criticism. If I hadn't gotten beyond that, I don't think I would still be teaching. It did teach me to always remember what it's like to be on the receiving end of teaching. Always stress what people are doing right and then build upon that. Always watch how you say something because you can thoughtlessly destroy someone's confidence and their vacation.




> My big one was on toeside turns, I got into the bad habit of leaning my upper body over the toe edge instead of shifting my hips and arching my back. Once an examiner pointed that out and I started riding correctly, my toeside turns were much more efficient. On groomers, this was'nt a problem, but on the steeps, my toeside turns were ugly looking. One small change like that made all the difference.


Yeah, me too. Inclination vs. angulation thing. Women also have a little extra challenge on this with our hips. Bart (a NZ trainer) calls it a "chick thing". He sees all chicks doing this. I'm going to have to get him to cover this again. He had me doing all this weird stuff in front of all the guys in the locker room on my very first day ever last season. I was pretty intimidated by all the full-time pro's present. Not many notes taken during that.

Ritchie W., another NZ trainer, showed us this great trick this season that works on toe-side and heel-side. I was using this on a 2nd year instructor two weekends ago. I posted this on EpicSki this past Feb. I break these up into two pieces and then put them together once they have mastered both. This works fantastically when you are teaching switch too. It really smoothed out my switch riding.

On your heel to toe turns:
Before you start to turn/turn initiation, reach for the middle of the nose of your board with your front hand with your stacked stance (don't actually lean or grab towards the nose; or bend towards your nose) and keep it there through the init/control/finish phases of your turn. 

On the toe to heel turns:
Before you start to turn/turn initiation, reach down like you are going to grab the back binding heel cup with your back hand. Don’t actually grab it, just gradually flex down equally with both knees and equal pressure on both feet. Keep that stacked stance. This smooths things out and gets the alignments right.

One other benefit - if the person is uncomfortable with the terrain or is a little intimidated, this gets their mind off of this. You have given them a task with things to think about. They aren't so focused on the terrain and actually flex ye olde knees and ankles. 

Yes, this did violate the new task old terrain, new terrain old task progression the other weekend. It did work!  She went down her first black diamond run (that was right next to double black terrain).


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## daysailer1 (Nov 9, 2007)

At the time I was unaware that she had never been down a black run before and was the weakest rider of the group. I was hanging out with a bunch of instructors from my old ski area.  2nd run of the day and the Cert 3 leads us to an open bowl cirque that started with a steep pitch. :thumbsdown: She didn't verbalize any fear but upon reflection, her body language was screaming fear. She was so locked up. I did know that she had failed her Cert 1 exams a year ago but I didn't know this included steeps. I always do the tree/traverse on the side of the trail in my never evers for the exact same reasons you do. I didn't think about that here. She was using her lower body for turn initiation and rotation (for the most part), her upper body alignments were way off. On her toe-side she would do the classic have her front shoulder almost over her heelside edge of her board throwing her weight off. Opposite on the heelside. Upper body rotation was happening in the control and finish phase of the turn with over rotation. I have feeling this is why she failed her exams though she also had limited flexion and extension too. I choose to work on the upper body alignments first with this progression and try to get more weight on the engaged edge. The alignments started to happen, the upper body rotation diminished, and she later admitted that the progression took away her fear focus on the steep terrain and that she did unlock her knees and was absorbing the crud. She also picked up without any hint by me that this would help her switch- I started laughing at that point and told her that was the first thing I said to the trainer once he showed us this. (I saw many a co-worker practicing this after this clinic.) At the bottom of the grade we stopped and talked. She couldn't believe what she just went down. It was a real confidence booster.


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## daysailer1 (Nov 9, 2007)

> It is amazing how subtle body movements make such huge differences in riding. Practicing MA while riding the chairlift, one thing I see that I think is the most common is this riding counter rotated. I see many people riding down the mountain with the upper body twisted around to face forward. It is so common. Many really decent riders still do this and it is their athletic ability that allows them to overcome this bad habit, but their riding would be so much more efficient if they kept the shoulders aligned with the board.


Amen!

I've had many discussions with various instructors, trainers, and examiners on this topic. It is so common and so painful for me to watch. Consensus opinion is about 95% of riders do this. They are using upper body rotation to turn the board. It is so inefficient. It works but does take alot of energy. Usually people learn this from friends who try to teach them snowboarding. They don't realize this is rookie riding technique. If not addressed quickly early on, it can be carried on for years. I know, I did this hideous technique too many years. It was the first thing of my riding that got torn apart 6-8 years ago. I got very defensive about it and had to get some instructors out at Snowmass to beat it out of me. To my own defense :laugh:, when I learned they didn't know how to teach snowboarding and the equipment then was so hideous it actually required rear foot kick steering. Ever seen a Burton Cruise? Try riding it with Sorels.

I try to teach never-evers correct technique from moment one and get them to understand why upper body rotation is a bad habit in most riding. It always comes up when teaching J-turns. People try swinging their arms around, paddle their hands, and everything in between. If I see several people doing it, I'll gather the class and give a little more detail on how we steer our board. First thing I'll have someone stand on their board and swing their arms side to side windmill fashion. I'll tell everyone to look down at the board after a few swings and see what's happening. The board is always rotating. I explain that the arm swinging is being transmitted down to the board. Many light bulbs at this point. I go further and explain that more efficient board steering is done from the waist down using a combo of hips, knees, and ankles. That the closer we can make the turning movement to the board, the easier and more efficient it is. Usually all light bulbs are on then and very little to no arm flailing. We work together to get those knee/ankle alignments and movements to achieve lower body rotation.

For people who have been riding awhile or still learning, I've been trying to get progressions to get rid of this and to understand all the dynamics of upper body rotation. Bart gave the best clinic ever on this in March to the Cert 2 candidate crowd. He wanted us to get the mechanics our students were doing. He made us lock up various body parts and joints in order for us to try to recreate students habits. He wanted to make us understand if you are going to try to take away some habit from a student, you are going to have to give them something to replace it (and not just tell them to bend a knee, etc). Seems the main joint that people lock up is the front ankle. It was the only way I could totally recreate the massive arm swinging that I see people do. I look for it from the lift now. If I see arm swinging, I usually see a locked front ankle too. I've gotten a few corrective progressions for this but I still want more. Earl Saline wrote a great article on this if you haven't already read it. It's on the PSIA-PNW website. Bend Your Knees This article was a revelation for me. I feel extremely privileged to have had Earl as a manager and a clinician. I'm afraid I'm in awe of our trainers too.

Terrain that puts you outside your comfort zone always makes the bad habits rear their ugly head. That's when I get the chopping rear arm motion in the big moguls on the toe-side turn.  I'm still learning boxes and jumps but pivot issues haven't been an problem for me. Not sure why but suspect several things - improved stance and balance. 

One thing that helped was getting rid of the Flow bindings I had. In my prep clinic Earl let me make it pretty clear to myself why I was having such a tough time initiating toe-side turns in big moguls. Equipment limitations can be an issue. Tony Macri (a RM Level III examiner) will bring this up to any instructor he sees riding with Flows and will let them know they need to get rid of them.

Addendum
I happened to think we might be talking about two things here too. It's one way to dig a hole in an exam too so we have been told to avoid certain terminology. Countered stance and counter-rotation.


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## daysailer1 (Nov 9, 2007)

> 2 of course is tilt and demonstrate how the sidecut turns the board when tilted. Number 3 which is related to 2 is of course twist or torsional flex. This is what I stress from the first one footed glide. In fact when riding one footed, it is damn near the only way to get a turn initiated and that is why I tend to "torture" my students a little longer with these one footed, gliding turns.



:laugh: You are not the only one and supervisors know I am non-negotiable on this. I want to give them the knowledge and muscle memory to make this happen.




> One thing that drives me nut-so is getting a student for their second lesson and discovering that all they can do is heelside falling leaf. The previous instructor never even demonstrated toeside turns or even went into torsional steering. This drives me nuts and I am thinking who was this instructor???


Me too but I cut others alot of slack and ask alot of questions to see what they understand. I had two ladies this season who didn't even know how to traverse after a lesson at Keystone. Upon investigation I learned that their lesson had been canceled halfway through due to a massive blizzard/whiteout and they couldn't see anything. I found out what they did cover and understand about their previous lesson and built on that. Also :laugh: WP is the birthplace of GCT, we are issued this little card with all the good questions to ask. I'm not a morning person so I keep it handy in my uniform pocket for review (depending upon assignment).



> You mentioned moguls and reverting back to using a lot of upper body and the waving arm. Sure the waving arm is bad form, but it is my understanding that at times, using upper body movements as well as counter rotation when it`s appropriate is not bad form. I find that I use a lot of upper body movements in the moguls. I tend to do "hop turns" by rebounding off the high side of the bump and spinning almost 180 to land in the trough pointed back the other way. It works very well for me, but are you hearing that this is technically not correct? I already use a ton of independent flexion and extension to ride though these monsters, but I kind of "pr wind" as I approach my target for doing a hop or pivot turn.


You are correct and I should have elaborated. When one is performing dynamic riding in the moguls, a certain amount of counter rotation is going to happen. I asked Earl about the arm chopping and he said it wasn't always necessarily bad. I've watched certain un-named snowboard gods of Vail SS and I've seen plenty of upper-body counter-rotation happening with dynamic mogul riding. If you are doing freestyle moves in the moguls, I think there is going to have to be upper body rotation. For me, when I do the hand chop and realize it, I stop and analyze why I did it. If was due to the terrain or me actually having bad form. It's about 50/50 most of the time. I try to concentrate better and look farther ahead and think more on toe-side turn initiation and cross-under technique.

The most blatant example I can think of where counter-rotation (not countered stance) has to happen is in the half-pipe. Making the heel to toe in the super-pipe happens much easier if you swing the upper body around. I didn't go into the superpipe or any halfpipe until Earl drug our prep clinic into them at Copper in January. Amazingly I didn't fall on my back or look incredibly hideous. :laugh: Earl remained silent :laugh:, my fellow clinicians cheered.:cheeky4: I haven't met too many 45 year old women who have gone in the superpipe on a snowboard.


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## daysailer1 (Nov 9, 2007)

Obviously I've had that block for years. When I've told people I want to learn it (other than instructors) they think I'm absolutely bonkers and need to grow up and be a responsible adult/woman. No support or encouragement there. I had a bunch of kids caution me not to go into the pipe at Steamboat in March "cause I might hurt myself". I'd already been in the pipe at Copper and it's much bigger.

It's pretty intimidating looking at those walls.  That, and I've had absolutely no instruction on how to do it.:laugh: When I told a trainer I didn't have a clue how to ride a pipe, he looked at me in absolute disbelief. He said "it's just like a race course". (I somehow discovered snowboard NASTAR racing and got hooked- I actually placed very high in the women's non-alpine division at Nationals in March). Anyway, that somehow clicked and made sense - the sides are the gates and the edge transition is the same. I can make it about half way up the 21 foot wall. I wig out any higher than that. I'm going to take stunt ditch clinics with Bart next season. From what I can do so far, I think I'm hooked. I need lessons now. I would like to clear the lip someday. For Cert 2 requirements we just have to be able to change edges in the transition.


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## daysailer1 (Nov 9, 2007)

Thanks for posting your experiences. It confirms even more that I need proper lessons. I bought the park and pipe book and have briefly thumbed through some sections. I need to sit down and actually absorb it this summer. I don't believe we have to be able to teach it for our Cert 2 but it's good to cover for ones own riding at this stage. My last hill and probably half the hills in CO don't have pipes of any kind. The superpipes at Copper and WP are well maintained. The one at Steamboat is so-so. Copper and Steamboat are the only places I know that even have mini-pipes.

I can't take any classes into any terrain park at this point. We have to take a in-house certification course and pass for this (probably an insurance thing and guest service thing). I believe I would be severely disciplined or fired if I was caught with a class in there. We have different levels of freestyle training too. There are three different size parks at WP. The largest requires a special pass and everyone has to watch a video before they can buy the pass. Many local semi-pro's use the park so it dosen't get alot of use by the destination visitor. Chris could really rip it in Dark Territory. I believe someone not properly trained in those features could easily hurt themselves or much much worse.


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## daysailer1 (Nov 9, 2007)

That's on my to-do list. I had to get the basics down better before moving there. Freestyle is where some of the advanced lessons are. We really don't have any college programs. Closest one is several hours away. We mainly serve the general Front Ranger or the destination resort type. The full-timers are generally going to get the freestyle classes.


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## daysailer1 (Nov 9, 2007)

The only hills in Colorado that have night operations are Keystone and Echo Mountain. I used to go over to Keystone at night with co-workers when I-70 was backed up and there was no chance of getting home anytime soon. It is weird to snowboard at night. The light is really funky and you just have to stay loose. 

Winter Park tried night snowbiking with headlamps this season but they canceled it.


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## daysailer1 (Nov 9, 2007)

Back in the day, ski patrol would turn on the lifts at Vail on full-moon lights and tear it up. Everyone in the morning would wonder how it got torn up so fast. Due to insurance and lift op reasons that will never happen again. I think the high end touristas want that powder too and they are paying top dollar for it. I think Vail only has about 5400 acres of skiable terrain.:laugh:

At WP, the morning after a significant powder dump, morning clinics are banned from all the main tourist runs. Every Sat morning we can't even go down certain groomed runs. These are to be saved for the bill paying public. 

The hours you are talking about are the hours the full-timers use for their second job or for some serious partying.

People do ride down Loveland Pass on moonlight nights.


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