# Set up frustration



## thedru13 (Jan 4, 2014)

Ok been riding for a few years. I have never been able to find any level of comfort. its driving me nuts. going to try and explain it... 
My set up... 
LibTech Lando 160
Union Atlas Bindings
Nike LunarEndor boots ( I think they are a half size to big so have ordered a 11.5 to see if that helps)

So here is my issue/issues..... I was riding on a much stiffer boot (DC Judge) and had better what i thought control of the board. Had a ton of foot pain so went with a different boot. this was in about 6 inches of fresh powder. I was able to ollie and jump and control the board. I had my angles at 16 and -14 regular stance. 

Last week I rode all week in much different conditions Very icy and hard pack. Had some boot fitment issues might have a bit to much room in my boot. 

The snow was a lot faster and board was quick. I felt like my feet were fighting each other on the board. If that makes sense. Like I wanted to move my angles on the board while riding. I had to ride a lot more aggressive due to the conditions to get the board to bite down into the icy conditions. felt like i was whipping the back of the board around. Like my right foot was kicking out and i was over rotating the board. I changed my right foot angle to -2 to see if that would reduce it. It helped a bit but i was not comfortable doing any ollie or jumps on the board and just felt very uneasy. 

Not sure if anyone could answer or chime in on this or if it even makes sense but man I felt like a complete N00b again on my board. I was falling and falling hard. I just could not get comfortable on the board at all. 

Should I set it up differently? My feet felt very tired like i was working to hard with my feet. Will different angles help me to resolve some of this? 

I am open to any suggestions. Thanks for any help..


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## ekb18c (Mar 11, 2013)

I think you have boot fitment issues.


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## thedru13 (Jan 4, 2014)

I think you might be correct.. I went a half size smaller and watiing for them to arrive. Its so hard to actually evaluate a boot without riding them. Hopefully the half size down does the trick for at least the boot fitment issue.. having flat feet doesn't help either. 



ekb18c said:


> I think you have boot fitment issues.


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## zk0ot (Nov 9, 2009)

what size shoes do you wear?


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## thedru13 (Jan 4, 2014)

So this is what baffles me... When i measure my foot I am a 12... I wear a 13 skate sneaker... DC, DVS ect. I wear a 12 Dress shoe for work. I wear a 12.5 or 13 running shoe depending on brand.. 



zk0ot said:


> what size shoes do you wear?


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## zk0ot (Nov 9, 2009)

sounds right... you in most cases should wear a smaller boot than your shoe... Generally most people wear improper fitting shoes becuase they more comfortable. (but offer little consequences)
where a nice comfy, loose, boot may result in all kinds of issues... Sloppyness, support is not in the correct location under your feet. rubbing etc... 

Having a snowboard shop size / fit you is nice...


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## zk0ot (Nov 9, 2009)

also could very well be that your feet and nike boots dont mesh well together... like my feet and burtons... (instant numb pinky toes)


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## thedru13 (Jan 4, 2014)

Thanks zk0ot... Funny thing is I did have the shop fit me.. Why i paid full price for the boots. Figured i would just bite the bullet and put most of my foot issues to bed. They informed me that Nike was true to size and i should go with a 12. Of course that was the only size they had... 



zk0ot said:


> sounds right... you in most cases should wear a smaller boot than your shoe... Generally most people wear improper fitting shoes becuase they more comfortable. (but offer little consequences)
> where a nice comfy, loose, boot may result in all kinds of issues... Sloppyness, support is not in the correct location under your feet. rubbing etc...
> 
> Having a snowboard shop size / fit you is nice...


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## ekb18c (Mar 11, 2013)

Well most of the time when you buy snowboard boots, they will hurt the first few times out. 

Case in example: I wear 9.5 sneakers. So I went out and got 9 thirtytwo focus boots. 

Had them head molded, wore them around the house for a few days and went out to try them on the slopes. They were really tough to get into and within 2 hours my toes went numb. I knew these boots will be great as they packed in.

I went to REI and picked up superfeet hot red to give my feet some room because the stock insoles were really thick. Next time out, my feet were so happy as the boot started to pack out.


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## thedru13 (Jan 4, 2014)

I have tried a few different insoles for my boots. Have heat moldable ones in there now.. have tried superfeet blue and Remidy Medics. I have almost no arch so they end up hurting my feet. I just do use the Moldable ones for now. 

Does adjusting the highback do anything from an angle stand point? Should I move them straighter to the board?


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## poutanen (Dec 22, 2011)

First off, hardpack is going to be more work to ride than powder, there's no way gear can overcome that.

But that said, I'd go to a different shop and try on a million boots. You'll know when it's "right". Going to a smaller size may help, but if the boots not fitting properly, you'll always be struggling.

Nothing wrong with experimenting with stance angles, also experiment with stance width. What width are you riding now? Most people seem to fall between 20-24" as being most comfortable, I ride 21.25". My powder board has a 22.25" stance width at it's most narrow setting, and I can ride it, but I do notice a negative effect.


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## thedru13 (Jan 4, 2014)

Thanks and I do know about the different conditions being an east coaster... 

Went to a few shops and was slim pickens for boots part of the issue. 

I have my bindings at 21.5 apart.. I am 6'2 and 200lbs.. 



poutanen said:


> First off, hardpack is going to be more work to ride than powder, there's no way gear can overcome that.
> 
> But that said, I'd go to a different shop and try on a million boots. You'll know when it's "right". Going to a smaller size may help, but if the boots not fitting properly, you'll always be struggling.
> 
> Nothing wrong with experimenting with stance angles, also experiment with stance width. What width are you riding now? Most people seem to fall between 20-24" as being most comfortable, I ride 21.25". My powder board has a 22.25" stance width at it's most narrow setting, and I can ride it, but I do notice a negative effect.


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

thedru13 said:


> The snow was a lot faster and board was quick. I felt like my feet were fighting each other on the board. If that makes sense. Like I wanted to move my angles on the board while riding. I had to ride a lot more aggressive due to the conditions to get the board to bite down into the icy conditions. *felt like i was whipping the back of the board around. Like my right foot was kicking out and i was over rotating the board.* I changed my right foot angle to -2 to see if that would reduce it. It helped a bit but i was not comfortable doing any ollie or jumps on the board and just felt very uneasy.
> 
> Not sure if anyone could answer or chime in on this or if it even makes sense but *man I felt like a complete N00b again on my board*. I was falling and falling hard. I just could not get comfortable on the board at all.



I don't say, you have a narrow stance - I've no clue what stance width duck angle guys use  I'm 5.64ft, stance feels fine at 21.6-22in, SO is 6ft and rides 23.6in, but both with +/+ angles :dunno: - just to illustrate, that even small deviations from what would be ones sweet stance can have a big effect. 

I had the same "holy shit, what's going on" experience recently when I did the first turns on a new board. The board is a bit strange, rather long, but with very narrow inserts. Didn't set it up with my normal stance cos that would have meant the most outer stance binding and inserts allow and I thought, well, 0.8in won't do much harm, I'll try a more narrow stance. I almost couldn't ride, doing strange moves as you described, off balance, knees n hip blocked, back leg ruddering :dizzy:. Buddy looked at me and asked if I'm drunk :laugh:

Back to the lift station, widened the stance to 22in, and voilà, normal riding is possible.


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## a4h Saint (Jan 24, 2013)

I have this same problem occasionally. When I strap in and ride and it starts happening then I just unlace and tie up my boots again tighter. Sometimes my feet get cold due to poor circulation, but I have good control. My next buy I just have to ensure boot fit. I would assume your problem is the same. I am glad to read this thread and find out that I am not just retarded.

BTW: I have 2013 Judges.


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## thedru13 (Jan 4, 2014)

neni said:


> I don't say, you have a narrow stance - I've no clue what stance width duck angle guys use  I'm 5.64ft, stance feels fine at 21.6-22in, SO is 6ft and rides 23.6in, but both with +/+ angles :dunno: - just to illustrate, that even small deviations from what would be ones sweet stance can have a big effect.
> 
> I had the same "holy shit, what's going on" experience recently when I did the first turns on a new board. The board is a bit strange, rather long, but with very narrow inserts. Didn't set it up with my normal stance cos that would have meant the most outer stance binding and inserts allow and I thought, well, 0.8in won't do much harm, I'll try a more narrow stance. I almost couldn't ride, doing strange moves as you described, off balance, knees n hip blocked, back leg ruddering :dizzy:. Buddy looked at me and asked if I'm drunk :laugh:
> 
> Back to the lift station, widened the stance to 22in, and voilà, normal riding is possible.


Thanks for the reply so that being said do you think i should go a bit wider? It appears I have issue bending my knees enough or i notice that i am bending my knees so tend to go back to stiff straight legs. Wonder if going wider will force me to bend my knees more.. I wish I had video or good video so you guys could see my stance. I have video but its on my helmet... 



a4h Saint said:


> I have this same problem occasionally. When I strap in and ride and it starts happening then I just unlace and tie up my boots again tighter. Sometimes my feet get cold due to poor circulation, but I have good control. My next buy I just have to ensure boot fit. I would assume your problem is the same. I am glad to read this thread and find out that I am not just retarded.
> 
> BTW: I have 2013 Judges.


Ha I felt stupid for even asking but tired of not getting comfy on my stuff. I should be a better rider at this point but just lack confidence or it gets rattled since I feel a bit out of control or have trouble keeping my board under control. I hit about 35-42mph and I get totally freaked out cause I feel the board is about to come out from under me as well as when I am trying to carve hard down the mountain I just am working way to hard..


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## ShredLife (Feb 6, 2010)

make your stance wider.


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## thedru13 (Jan 4, 2014)

ShredLife said:


> make your stance wider.



Ok how much wider should I go? Should I go an inch or 2?


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## ShredLife (Feb 6, 2010)

thedru13 said:


> Ok how much wider should I go? Should I go an inch or 2?


see what feels good. no wrong answer.


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## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

It sounds like a combination of boot fitment, stance and angle adjustment and technique. Boot fitment take a look at that boot FAQ sticky. Stance angle play around with that, however your right foot you made a pretty big adjustment perhaps do smaller adjustments. And riding technique it sounds like you just got to become fearless of speed and become more dynamic. Like in this video.


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## poutanen (Dec 22, 2011)

thedru13 said:


> Thanks for the reply so that being said do you think i should go a bit wider? It appears I have issue bending my knees enough or i notice that i am bending my knees so tend to go back to stiff straight legs. Wonder if going wider will force me to bend my knees more..


You MUST bend your knees a LOT to be able to ride well dynamically... In your living room, strap into your board with your boots and try to do a squat. If it's at all uncomfortable or gives you knee pain, change things up until it gets better. Just remember change one thing at a time (i.e. if you're changing stance width, leave stance angle alone, then change your stance angle and leave the width alone).

I'm 5'7" 175 lb and use a 21.25" width, with -9/+9 or -12/+12 stance angles. For my frame, I can comfortably do a squat on the board and really twist in either direction comfortably.

Find your stance, and get the right boots! :yahoo:


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## thedru13 (Jan 4, 2014)

Ok I am going to mess around tonight and see. I know I need to bend more just feels awkward when I do. That is a big part of the issue and when I do bend a bit feel unstable. So hopefully going a bit wider will feel a bit more natural. I don't seem to get to much pressure any one particular place. I do feel like my feet get tired like the bottom of my foot from pressing on my toes or the balls of my feet to much. I wish I had a local type hill to ride so I could test stuff out but I don't. I use a balance board to work my core balance and just a good workout for me in general. 

When you guys say squat down on the board how far down should I be able to go? And should it just feel the same if I don't have anything strapped to my feet? Just trying to see how it should feel what the AHA there is the feeling moment will feel like..


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

thedru13 said:


> Ok how much wider should I go? Should I go an inch or 2?


You ever ride with public transportation (bus or train, don't know if metro is waggly/bumpy as well)?. Next time don't take a seat or handle, stay in the middle of the aisle and balance *all* the stop and go and curves and totter with your legs. You'll automatically bend your knees to equalize. Pretty sure, the stance you have there will be a good stance on the board as well


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## poutanen (Dec 22, 2011)

thedru13 said:


> I use a balance board to work my core balance and just a good workout for me in general.
> 
> When you guys say squat down on the board how far down should I be able to go? And should it just feel the same if I don't have anything strapped to my feet? Just trying to see how it should feel what the AHA there is the feeling moment will feel like..


I can do a full squat, like ass almost touching the ground when strapped into the board with no weird feelings in my knees/joints.

Next time you get on your balance board, get in the most comfrotable position for you and ask somebody to measure the width from dead centre of each foot, and also look at your to angles. This should help get you close. Do you ever try to do squats while balancing? Try that and see what's comfortable. When I used to go to the gym I'd do that to prep for the season, and I'm willing to bet my stance on the board matched my actual snowboard stance pretty close.


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## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

^I'm abt the same size and pretty much the same angle and stance. Riding hard pack and ice verses pow does not necessarily take more work....but more balls and a different kind of efficiency...on pow being more subtle movements, ice is more finesse of being dynamic...but blasting groomed hard pack is fairly efficient with good dynamic technique...you can just let the board run...and don't fight gravity...a lot of folks at the intermediate stage and myself occasionally feel..."oh shit I going too fast" so we swing the board too perpendicular/transverse...thus fighting gravity...but the better more efficient thing to do more is to keep the nose within 45 degrees of the fall line and turn more and turn more quickly...thus we are not fighting the board or gravity...but attain a happy efficient medium....which is just technique of dynamic riding.


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## thedru13 (Jan 4, 2014)

Ok good suggestions. I am a gym rat so know that feeling well. My Balance board is a bit small so not sure I can get as wide as my board. Will measure it and see. I have a vewdoo board so its not really all that big. Smaller than a skateboard.... 

Again really appreciate all the info....


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

thedru13 said:


> When you guys say squat down on the board how far down should I be able to go? And should it just feel the same if I don't have anything strapped to my feet? Just trying to see how it should feel what the AHA there is the feeling moment will feel like..


Chest flat on thigh, chin on knees, buttocks 8in from ground (runout position).


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## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

thedru13 said:


> When you guys say squat down on the board how far down should I be able to go? And should it just feel the same if I don't have anything strapped to my feet? Just trying to see how it should feel what the AHA there is the feeling moment will feel like..


A good drill...at home but preferably on the hill. Squat down in the knees, back straight and rest your forearms on your knees...and ride from that position for all or most of the run....on a green or blue. And from this squatting position only, link your turns while keeping your squatting body still. You will have to only slight weight your nose and feel the difference of pressuring your lead foot....ball of foot for toeside turns and little toe for heel side. Ime this really helps to isolate that turning can be done with very little movement. Also you should be able to bomb straight down a run in this position. It will get you used to using subtle movements when going fast, get you used to going fast and if you fall it will teach you to slide it out...JUST KEEP the board UP till you burn off a lot of speed....thus it will teach you that sliding out at high speed is easy and harmless as long as you don't hit another person or tree.


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## thedru13 (Jan 4, 2014)

Some more really great info... Now I want to take the 2 plus hour drive and try an bunch of different stuff out..


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## thedru13 (Jan 4, 2014)

So getting my bindings set up to go wider. QQ about placement. If i want to get them about 24 inches apart the back binding has to go back. So will this be bad if the rear binding is in a different set of holes than the front binding? So set back further than the front binding. Should the front and rear binding always be on the same set of holes?


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## ShredLife (Feb 6, 2010)

nope. 

the short answer is whatever works for you works...

what i like to do is use a tape measure and i pay more attention to my overall setback on the board and my total width... so i'm measuring from the middle of the baseplate to the nose and/or tail, and the width from the middle of baseplate to middle of baseplate... i like to ride .5-.75 back and 23-24.25 wide


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## thedru13 (Jan 4, 2014)

Ok I am going to start out around 24inches wide.. See how it feels. Feels like i could go wider but 24 feels okay. Want to get a feel for what this does then i guess I will go from there..


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