# How to go fast without catching edges?



## Efilnikufesin

Zcev5454 said:


> Everytime I seem to get going fast, I end up flat-basing and catch an edge. Any tips on how to stop doing this?



Stop flatbasing and keep a higher edge angle . It will take some practice and feel, you seem new so it will come with more time.


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## HoboMaster

Efilnikufesin said:


> Stop flatbasing and keep a higher edge angle . It will take some practice and feel, you seem new so it will come with more time.


Yup, quite simply stay on one edge or the other. You can't catch an edge if you're already engaging one.


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## Bayoh

If you're carrying any real speed whatsoever you should always be "pressuring" an edge. Not to the point you're turning, just slight enough that the edge is in contact with the snow.

Like Hobo said, you can't catch an edge if you're already on one.


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## wrathfuldeity

you can go fast and flatbased but you better be in the front seat driving...sounds like you are in the backseat
...you can do it from the backseat but you better know what ur doin....and apparently you don't...so get in the front seat


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## oldmate

wrathfuldeity said:


> you can go fast and flatbased but you better be in the front seat driving...sounds like you are in the backseat
> ...you can do it from the backseat but you better know what ur doin....and apparently you don't...so get in the front seat


I think what this guy is saying is try to keep weight over your front foot. I also try to keep my shoulders parallel to the board when flatbasing to make sure its not going to start turning on me.


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## wrathfuldeity

oldmate said:


> I think what this guy is saying is try to keep weight over your front foot. I also try to keep my shoulders parallel to the board when flatbasing to make sure its not going to start turning on me.


Thanks...yes. If your board is generally going down the fall line and your weight is on the nose....there is no edge to catch. To demostrate to yourself, put a 10 pound bag of sand in your front binding and it will go right down the fall line and not catch and edge. Next, put the bag in your back binding and the tail will swing around to go first...meaning when your weight in in the back seat. Additionally if your shoulders and hips are not closed/paraelle (or rotated open) this will also add the tendency for the tail to swing around...and when it does you are at much greater risk for catching an edge. 

A way to practice not catching an edge at a slow speed is to ride 1 footy or on flat cat tracks.


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## Fiziks

Just wanted to re-iterate what everyone so far has been saying. 

I used to have the same problem as you when I first started too, but the thing that really changed my perception was to realize that you rarely ever want to flat base. And the faster you go, the worse it is to flat base because then you don't have as much control over your board. It starts to shift and get all squirrel-y under you.

A good thing to practice this season would be to start always staying on an edge as you pick up speed and start making your carves as straight down slope as possible. Once you get comfortable with that start bringing your board back down closer to flat base but always keep pressure on 1 edge at all times. Once you get the hand of this it will be second nature and the only times you'll ever truly flatbase from here on out is off the chair or maybe when you're just cruising along at a snail's pace.


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## oldmate

Fiziks said:


> Just wanted to re-iterate what everyone so far has been saying.
> 
> I used to have the same problem as you when I first started too, but the thing that really changed my perception was to realize that you rarely ever want to flat base. And the faster you go, the worse it is to flat base because then you don't have as much control over your board. It starts to shift and get all squirrel-y under you.
> 
> A good thing to practice this season would be to start always staying on an edge as you pick up speed and start making your carves as straight down slope as possible. Once you get comfortable with that start bringing your board back down closer to flat base but always keep pressure on 1 edge at all times. Once you get the hand of this it will be second nature and the only times you'll ever truly flatbase from here on out is off the chair or maybe when you're just cruising along at a snail's pace.


Mmmm dunno if I agree. I have flat based at massive speeds. It's about keeping your weight over your front foot and your shoulders in line with the board. If you are on an edge you are washing speed off


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## jdang307

oldmate said:


> Mmmm dunno if I agree. I have flat based at massive speeds. It's about keeping your weight over your front foot and your shoulders in line with the board. If you are on an edge you are washing speed off


But then you come by a small piece of ice that engages your edge thattaway.

You can adjust it back but sometimes its hairy.


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## chomps1211

Fiziks said:


> ...the faster you go, the worse it is to flat base because then you don't have as much control over your board. It starts to shift and get all squirrel-y under you.
> 
> A good thing to practice this season would be to start always staying on an edge as you pick up speed and start making your carves as straight down slope as possible. Once you get comfortable with that start bringing your board back down closer to flat base but always keep pressure on 1 edge at all times,..





oldmate said:


> Mmmm dunno if I agree. I have flat based at massive speeds. It's about keeping your weight over your front foot and your shoulders in line with the board,..


Correct me if I'm misinformed about this, but the snow conditions will make a world of difference in how _squirely_ "flat basing" feels as well won't they? I mean on gouged & cut up hard pack or icy groomers, you've got more (_...features?_) looking to snag or engage your edges without your consent, right? So any lapse in concentration or technique can result in punishment! Plus, when riding flat based on hard pack like that, unless you _are_ pressuring an edge, the running edges of the board are not really in contact with anything to help stabilize your tracking? Is this an accurate assessment? 

The few times I've been able to ride in a couple inches of "Fresh",.. where the running length of the board was _actually_ *"In"* the snow,.. riding flat seemed _much_ more stable & controlled, and not just when bombing straight out!! (_...bombing being a relative term for a NooB like me!_)


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## Guest

It has a ton to do with conditions. East coast VS West Coast..........


If there is any ice you do NOT want to flat base. If it is choppy conditions you do not want to flat base. (normally east coast)

Now if you are first tracks and its deep powder then it is not nearly affected as much. (alot of times west coast) I just lean back and float until I reach a speed where small carves are needed.



When I am bombing it, I always keep on an edge BUT the board is always pointed directly down hill. Now the only time I will flat base is right before a roller and I want to ollie it, even at that its just for a second. Full control is ALWAYS seen on an edge for the most part because from flat base it takes a longer period to engage a turn especially in TOUGH situations, ie: unknown rock, big patch of ice, fellow skier/snowboarder thats just on the other side of roller/hill that you cant see.........

Where I snowboard in VT it is usually choppy conditions...........:thumbsup:


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## BoardWalk

Get more air, you can't catch an edge when you're flying. I tend to use oldmates technique, forward and loose.


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## BoardWalk

golfer1659 said:


> If there is any ice you do NOT want to flat base.


Words that I live by, of course I'm a big pussy...


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## Donutz

BoardWalk said:


> Get more air, you can't catch an edge when you're flying.


yeah, but no matter how hard I flap, I still come down eventually. That's when things go bad...


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## dice

I think it also has much to do with the type of board you are riding!

I can flat base my Travis Rice at high speed on ice no issues! My Kessler Ride is even better & faster when flat based - with KST tech I often flat base it (little break) after a big long massive speed push.

Having said that, I took out a Nitro Pentera on a demo ride the other day and can tell you the board was very twitchy! Had to have it on edge most of the time and was much harder to flat base (flats and cat walks)! 

So I'd say board have something to do with it as well as technique.

All the best.

Cheers...


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## Backcountry

I kept catching edges last time I went up and I was getting so mad :thumbsdown:


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## chomps1211

BoardWalk said:


> Get more air, you can't catch an edge when you're flying,..





Donutz said:


> yeah, but no matter how hard I flap, I still come down eventually. That's when things go bad...


:laugh::laugh::laugh:
LOL,.. anyone got a .gif of an airborne boarder "flappin" their arms like crazy!! :laugh::laugh:

...just can't get that image outta' my head! :laugh:


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## SnowOwl

X2 Depends on your board. Carving will help you keep command/maintain your speed. When I see people carving down the blacks, I end up bombing past them the bottom half. Having a Mervin's BTX sure does help. You just need to be comfortable transferring your weight from back to front when engaging carves back to flat basing. Different types of cambers on a board make the difference as to how you can approach this


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## Casual

BoardWalk said:


> I tend to use oldmates technique, forward and loose.


+1 for this, I flat base a lot and I just stay really loose. I think its something you need experience for and you need to know when to load up an edge and be able to do it quickly or you could die :dizzy: nobody likes dying. Definitely need to keep parallel to your board and not fight it.


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## Slush Puppie

I don't really get the question. I've never found the board anymore catchy at high speed. Or problematic completely flat based either. I assume the RC has a lot to do with this but in either scenario it's just not an issue. I know the the 'catchy' feeling but it's happened like 3 times and has always resulted in a minor adjustment, not an actual catch. I just don't get the need to stay on an edge


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## rasmasyean

To a certian extent, I think the more conditioned you are to riding and flatbasing while riding, any "squirelling" from flat basing will be automatically compensated by muscle memory and you will still be stable. It's just balance that comes with practice. But front weighting helps a lot.

The other thing that helps requires a modification of your board. You put a base bevel on the edge like 2-3 degrees. Looking from the front, it would look like \_________________/ ....but only 2-3 degreees, not like 60. You should also detune (round) the tip and tail sections which helps in pretty much all riding situations. Look it up on Youtube.

This mod will help reduce squirelling and edge catching at the expense of requiring more lean to turn and have a longer turn transition....which only matters if you're reacing anyway. Ppl also do this as a performance tune for rails, such that it will not catch on nicks in the rail and domino you. It's better than "rounding" as a crude method (aka detuning) so it's no longer sharp anymore. The latter will reduce riding performance on normal trails.

You can also do a side bevel to maintain the 90 degree L-shape of the edge.


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## Lamps

oldmate said:


> Mmmm dunno if I agree. I have flat based at massive speeds. It's about keeping your weight over your front foot and your shoulders in line with the board. If you are on an edge you are washing speed off


You're washing speed off if you're skidding on an edge. If you're carving on an edge you'll come out of the turn with more speed than you took into it.


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## rasmasyean

chomps1211 said:


> Correct me if I'm misinformed about this, but the snow conditions will make a world of difference in how _squirely_ "flat basing" feels as well won't they? I mean on gouged & cut up hard pack or icy groomers, you've got more (_...features?_) looking to snag or engage your edges without your consent, right? So any lapse in concentration or technique can result in punishment! Plus, when riding flat based on hard pack like that, unless you _are_ pressuring an edge, the running edges of the board are not really in contact with anything to help stabilize your tracking? Is this an accurate assessment?
> 
> The few times I've been able to ride in a couple inches of "Fresh",.. where the running length of the board was _actually_ *"In"* the snow,.. riding flat seemed _much_ more stable & controlled, and not just when bombing straight out!! (_...bombing being a relative term for a NooB like me!_)


This would also highly depend on your board. A stiff board will have a better time "plowing" through the chopped up snow than a really flexible board.


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## wrathfuldeity

Do not bevel the edge as noted below....you want a good edge for blasting...guaranteed going 50 mph you want edges and if beveled you are going to be squirrly, all over the place and be overcompensating your movements to get an edge, if you even get one with those beveled edges. You want the 90 degree edges to cut and bite....otherwise you will be washing out/wiping out. IMPROVE your skills.




rasmasyean said:


> To a certian extent, I think the more conditioned you are to riding and flatbasing while riding, any "squirelling" from flat basing will be automatically compensated by muscle memory and you will still be stable.  It's just balance that comes with practice. But front weighting helps a lot.
> 
> The other thing that helps requires a modification of your board. You put a base bevel on the edge like 2-3 degrees. Looking from the front, it would look like \_________________/ ....but only 2-3 degreees, not like 60. You should also detune (round) the tip and tail sections which helps in pretty much all riding situations. Look it up on Youtube.
> 
> This mod will help reduce squirelling and edge catching at the expense of requiring more lean to turn and have a longer turn transition....which only matters if you're reacing anyway. Ppl also do this as a performance tune for rails, such that it will not catch on nicks in the rail and domino you. It's better than "rounding" as a crude method (aka detuning) so it's no longer sharp anymore. The latter will reduce riding performance on normal trails.
> 
> You can also do a side bevel to maintain the 90 degree L-shape of the edge.


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## Kevin.Brock

Is there a thread that talks about the 1/1 or 0/0 concept? I don't understand.
Thanks


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## extra0

there's obviously a way to haul ass flat without eating it. I've seen many people succeed...but, from their body language, it always looks like they're "all in" for the risk. I've also seen just as many people get all the way to the bottom...then eat it so hard at full speed, rescue has to carry them away. Scary.


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## brucew.

Don't mean to hijack the thread but does anyone know of a good edge tuner thats not too expensive?


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## mastershake

from my limited experience , im in the staying on your edge concept.

you can of course flatbase it, but if the conditions are bad or choppy it takes very little for your board to catch some snow on top and just dig in...i never like to take that risk...personally i only flatbase when i am going extremely slow and just trying to make it pass a very long flat.

usually i try to keep sllight pressure on one of my edges, if i feel the board turning i go on the opposite edge...its basically going straight down and switching from edge to edge...i don't care if it scrubs off speed because it definitely allows me to feel a lot more in control than flatbasing it...and thats what i care about the most.


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## edlo

*Going to fast?*



Zcev5454 said:


> Everytime I seem to get going fast, I end up flat-basing and catch an edge. Any tips on how to stop doing this?


Slow down either lean down hill or pull up on the rear, which ever way your mind makes it work. 

If you are just learning and traversing a lot with the board perpendicular to the slope, both feet have to work hard to keep the down hill edge up, and this should be your primary focus when sliding down perpendicular. If it is not, you will catch that edge. 

If are moving in a manner where you have a front foot and rear foot, and you get going too fast and start to get scared , you will learn on your up hill foot out of fear, if you you lean on the uphill foot, that foot will start to fall down the hill in an unexpected and manner, it will fall either toe or heel side, whichever one is bearing the weight. If you have the weight on the uphill toe, the board will come around and catch toe side and face plant. If your weight is on the heel, you wont see it coming and you'll end up on your back looking at the sky. 

I learned to do a jump whenver I space out and my rear foot gets a mind of its own. It is usually on a very flat area and I start to relax, stand straigt up and start looking around for the rest of my group.


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## redlude97

Snowolf said:


> Edge bevel angles. 0/0 means zeroe degree base bevel and zero degree side bevel. This makes a 90 degree edge.
> 
> A 1/1 bevel means that on the base, the metal edge has a 1 degree upward bevel so that it is not come rely flush with the snow. When you put a bevel on the base edge, you still usually want a 90 degree edge so you typically match the base bevel on your side edge so if the base is 1 degree, you match it with a 1 degree side edge bevel.
> 
> Park boards often come from the factory with a 2 or 2 1/2 degree bevel to make them less prone to edge catches on features. Even with a park bevel, you really want to maintain a 90 degree edge so the side bevel is also 2 or 2 1/2 respectively.
> 
> Sometimes the side edge bevel is expressed in terms as it relates to the boards base so it will be 90, 89 or 88 degrees.
> 
> Some beginner boards have a 3/3 bevel to make them even more catch free. They are great for what they are designed for and for park, but suck for aggressive riding on firm snow.


While all this is true, detuning the tip and tail up to the contact points does help with that twitchy feeling on a lot of boards when flatbasing or just slightly on edge. This was especially true back in the camber days. I detuned the tip and tail on my NS and it does feel smoother when bombing, while leaving the base and side bevels stock past the contact points.


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## hktrdr

wrathfuldeity said:


> Do not bevel the edge as noted below....you want a good edge for blasting...guaranteed going 50 mph you want edges and if beveled you are going to be squirrly, all over the place and be overcompensating your movements to get an edge, if you even get one with those beveled edges. You want the 90 degree edges to cut and bite....otherwise you will be washing out/wiping out. IMPROVE your skills.
> 
> 
> 
> rasmasyean said:
> 
> 
> 
> To a certian extent, I think the more conditioned you are to riding and flatbasing while riding, any "squirelling" from flat basing will be automatically compensated by muscle memory and you will still be stable. It's just balance that comes with practice. But front weighting helps a lot.
> 
> The other thing that helps requires a modification of your board. You put a base bevel on the edge like 2-3 degrees. Looking from the front, it would look like \_________________/ ....but only 2-3 degreees, not like 60. You should also detune (round) the tip and tail sections which helps in pretty much all riding situations. Look it up on Youtube.
> 
> This mod will help reduce squirelling and edge catching at the expense of requiring more lean to turn and have a longer turn transition....which only matters if you're reacing anyway. Ppl also do this as a performance tune for rails, such that it will not catch on nicks in the rail and domino you. It's better than "rounding" as a crude method (aka detuning) so it's no longer sharp anymore. The latter will reduce riding performance on normal trails.
> 
> You can also do a side bevel to maintain the 90 degree L-shape of the edge.
Click to expand...

wrath is correct, that was just terrible advice for freeriding/all-mountain riding.


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## rasmasyean

Everyone has their opinions on edge beveling, but here's some world cup recomendations.

Edge bevel tips for ski and snowboard

The only time you want a 0 degree base is during Slalom. AND in that situation, you want a severe side bevel to make your edge like 87 degrees instead of 90. This way it bites MORE during hard carves because you're pretty much always in it. Of course this wears out your edge more because it's "sharper", but you don't care because you're in it for the short race.


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## hktrdr

rasmasyean said:


> Everyone has their opinions on edge beveling, but here's some world cup recomendations.
> 
> Edge bevel tips for ski and snowboard
> 
> The only time you want a 0 degree base is during Slalom. AND in that situation, you want a severe side bevel to make your edge like 87 degrees instead of 90. This way it bites MORE during hard carves because you're pretty much always in it. Of course this wears out your edge more because it's "sharper", but you don't care because you're in it for the short race.


Blahblahblah, nothing of that contradicts our arguments (or supports your original post). In the table you linked none of the categories suggest more than 2 degrees of base bevel - in fact with the exception of 'spinners' and beginners they are all 1 percent or less.


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## redlude97

Snowolf said:


> You are quite correct. I was only speaking about the effective edge between the contact points....:thumbsup:


For sure and I knew that's what you meant since I got that advice from you BITD. Just wanted to explicitly state it since the discussion was ambiguous to this point.


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## rasmasyean

Snowolf said:


> This is not exactly true. You are only "washing speed off" if you are skidding. Being on edge does not equate to skidding and in many snow conditions, carving on edge is actually faster than riding with the base flat......


Regarding that, this is also another reason to bevel the base edge during racing. Because it will "lift" the base off the snow more giving you less friction during carves. 

The reason why "slalom" tolerates near 0 base bevels, is because you are so high on edge that it doesn't matter, so turn initiation is the more important performance feature. But if you're in another less turny race, it is recommended to have higher base bevel. Not just for parks.


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## rasmasyean

Snowolf said:


> And how _exactly_ does the edge, beveled or otherwise, actually "lift the base off the snow"? In a carve, the rider "lifts" the base by tilting the board. Please just stop trying to give "advice"; its really not your forte....


You're the one that says being on edge is faster than flat base. So naturally, if you have a base bevel, the same minor edging will result in MORE tilt, resulting in less "base" touching the snow! Obviously! :laugh:


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## onthefence

Why does this guy keep posting if he knows ppl will jump all over his flawed advice in a heartbeat? Good troll IMO...


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## rasmasyean

Snowolf said:


> It's not the edge bevel that determines or limits the angle of board tilt, it's the rider's use of angulation in the case of dynamic carving and inclination in the case of basic carving. A degree or two of bevel on 5MM wide metal strip on the edge of the board has absolutely no power to "lift the base off the snow" or prevent the rider from tilting the board.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stop digging...


If you have a 0 degree base bevel, an edge angulation of 1 degree is achieved by a 1 degree tilt.

If you have a 1 degree base bevel, an edge angulation of 1 degree is achieved by a 2 degree tilt.

If you have a 2 degree base bevel, an edge angulation of 1 degree is achieved by a 3 degree tilt.


Last time I checked, snow isn't a granite surface where I ride so the track made by a 3 degree tilt is thinner than a 2 degree tilt is thinner than a 1 degree tilt. Therfore...base beveling LIFTS more board off the snow! THUS, as you have observed yourself that being "slightly on edge" is faster than "flat basing", the more base you have touching the snow, the more suction, friction, whatever....slowing you down ever so slightly! Is that really that hard to understand?

You can say whatever you want about edge beveling, but the recomendations are for a reason. And is not "just for beginners". I was an expert rider when I started beveling and I put a 3/3 bevel on my Lib Tech Dark Series ADVANCED RIDING board. And it helped me "flat-base", spin easier, land without catching, etc. And I had FUN with it without worrying about catching an edge as much. Now did it reduce performance when carving down double black ice trails? Maybe...but I moved past that and focused on fooling arround on easier trails instead! I mean, I thought we were talking about teaching BEGINNERS anyways, so why you just want to argue by bringing up advance free-riding topics? :dunno:


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## SnowOwl

this guy is an freakin troll:thumbsdown: intentional or not, Troll.


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## Donutz

This thread is really getting past its stale date.


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## Engage_mike

Donutz said:


> This thread is really getting past its stale date.


I agree Donutz...I'll just add this one little snip it and say...WHERE was this thread just before I snowboarding!! I could have used these tips honestly...good information for any beginner/intermediate boarder..Thanks to all you guys with the ability to throw great detail in to your teachings..I have come a long way since I first found this forum and most of everything I have read on here has helped me out (Most not all) 

now let the thread die


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## BigmountainVMD

@ Snowolf --> I know you are well versed in AASI techniques so I wanted to share an experience I had while taking my Level 1 certification course.

Pretty much, our head snowboard trainer for the mountain was an alpine board rider (not the AASI course teacher, who was on the AASI East freestyle team I believe) and so obviously, much of our local training was based on carving technique. 

Anyways, a bunch of us instructors took this course, and the AASI teacher was saying how our carving was good, but he thought we spent TOO MUCH time on our edges. It was to the point that he had us working on our flat basing technique, so instead of riding on edge while traversing, he had us make quick carved turns (almost like short/fast J turns) and get the board flat instead of instantly changing to the opposite edge to start the next turn. We talked about balance, and understanding the contours of the hill to know where to point the board when riding flat... but yeah, he was really adamant that we should be spending less time on edge if we don't NEED to.

Now I'm not sure if this was more of a freestyle technique (better position for ollies, flat land tricks, etc...) but I was surprised he had us working on that.

What's your opinion on my experience? It was my only experience with a full on Level 3 instructor/teacher/AASI freestyle team member so I'm wondering if that is more his "opinion," what he felt more comfortable with, or if it is actually part of the whole AASI "how to snowboard manual."


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## jlm1976

I realize that you were directing that post at snowolf but I am certified through AASI-East and have been a member for 10years r so. My guess is that he saw that your focus on high edge angled turns were going to hold you back in the long run. Often(myself included) the more we learn to make high edge angle turns, the more we lose the ability to ride a low edge angle. Now, low edge angles are important for riding trees, bumps, and boxes/rails so its important to develop that ability so it doesn't hold you back down the road.
Out of curiosity, who was your examiner?


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## BigmountainVMD

Yeah, I couldn't for the life of me figure out why we were doing it, other than to work on approaches for straight-airs and boxes... but we never actually worked on that stuff. We were working on nose rolls, but that was kind of separate.

Now that I think of it, we may have been talking about doing ollies over rollers or debris on the trail, and some people (level 1 remember) were not comfortable getting flat while traversing... but it just seemed like the message was more than just "you need to be flat to ollie over stuff." It was more of a "you don't have to carve ALL the time."

@ jlm --> It was a few years back, so I can't pull a name out. I know he was talking about being on some sort of AASI freestyle team and I know he was a snowboard coach at an academy somewhere. Maybe Gould Academy by Sunday River in Maine? He was awesome though and really opened our eyes to the world of snowboard instructing, especially since most of our skills were taught by a somewhat narrow-minded hard booter. One of the most memorable bits of enlightenment was how we all thought you needed a "stiffer all mountain/freeride board" to carve crazy lines (even I was rocking a hard-booter stance at the time) and he carved circles around us on his super short, flimsy park stick. Best part was when we got to the lift, he stopped to show us how he keeps his bindings so loose, he actually had an inch of travel between boot and binding.

As for the low angle stuff, we WERE doing a lengthy bump lesson one of the days, so maybe it was prep for that. I hated bumps before that lesson and after 20 minutes with that guy I was feeling super confident.


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## SnowOwl

Snowolf said:


> Interesting about the loose bindings. I myself have noticed that I like my binding straps to allow a little bit of give. When I overtighten a binding strap I feel a huge change in the way my board as a whole feels and within 20 feet, I stop and back it off a notch.


I was curious about this subject too. I know I've seen the subject come up on how newer riders tend to over compensate and tighten their bindings unnecessarily tight...does it make a scientific difference in performance how tight your bindings are, or is it purely preference? I get psyched out seeing my boots being able to wiggle in the bindings.


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## BigmountainVMD

Snowolf said:


> Interesting about the loose bindings. I myself have noticed that I like my binding straps to allow a little bit of give. When I overtighten a binding strap I feel a huge change in the way my board as a whole feels and within 20 feet, I stop and back it off a notch.


I wish I felt the same. I feel like I have to keep tightening my bindings all day, and if I'm doing a solid 9 to 4, by mid afternoon I can't find the sweet spot anymore. They are either too tight and cause foot pain, or too loose and not responsive enough.


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## trapper

My question about this is how would you keep your binding loose without having the toe strap slip off? I have to tighten the hell out of mine to keep my cap strap on, and until I initially reconfigured the strap setup I was having major problems with them slipping off halfway down the hill. Not a problem now, but like I said I have to tighten them pretty well.

I think I would be more comfortable riding if they were a little looser, but I'd have to get around this issue first.


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## BigmountainVMD

trapper said:


> My question about this is how would you keep your binding loose without having the toe strap slip off? I have to tighten the hell out of mine to keep my cap strap on, and until I initially reconfigured the strap setup I was having major problems with them slipping off halfway down the hill. Not a problem now, but like I said I have to tighten them pretty well.
> 
> I think I would be more comfortable riding if they were a little looser, but I'd have to get around this issue first.


I think it was all in the ankle strap. His foot wasn't slipping forward, but he could lift his heel a lil bit out of the binding when strapped in.


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## poutanen

Snowolf said:


> This is not exactly true. You are only "washing speed off" if you are skidding. Being on edge does not equate to skidding and in many snow conditions, carving on edge is actually faster than riding with the base flat......


+1, I can confirm this theory after riding velcro on Wednesday. Got to the bottom of Cypress and it was sticky snow, did little carves at the bottom and I could barely feel the glue. Put the base down and it was like the drag chutes were deployed!!!

For what it's worth, my board builder setup my edges at 0.5 deg base, 2 deg side bevel. He does this to all his boards including race, alpine and BX boards. Lonerider said it engaged to early for his liking, I personally love the way it grabs HARD. It's very dramatic and once used to it there's no second guessing.


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## bordsmnj

wow, there's a lot going on in this thread. lots of valid points if they are taken further and put into context. i think a lot has to do with what you consider "going fast". at my local little hill (bear mountain/snow summit) conditions change vastly on a typical "so cal" day. in the morning you ice skating and in the late afternoon your water skiing. i view being on edge as a defensive technique. i've used it. good tool to have. staying flat at really high speeds is used in attacking. even riding flat when your really flying down hard pack your not very much in contact with the surface. the faster i go the tighter and more responsive i want my bindings. also tense leg muscles, weight foreward. drive through it. no staying loose about it. pick your lines and totally commit. by commiting you can change your line if need be just follow your eyes. are you in control? i'll you have to do is ask your self "would i be able to stop right now?" any way i like this thread because it made me put some thought into something i am passionate about. lots i disagree with here too but... no big deal. i think that beveled edges and all curved surfaces at the rear of the board are about controlled release not lift. but then surface conditions come into play, blah blah blah. have FUN!


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## t21

Snowolf said:


> Yep exactly! my boot isnt able to move around in the binding but the ankle strap allows for a little more flex, giving the board a "looser" feeling which I like.


I think that's what my Flow binding feels like


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## edlo

poutanen said:


> I could barely feel the glue. Put the base down and it was like the drag chutes were deployed!!!


It is a snow board not a surfboard. You still snow for the wax to work otherwise you are in a pond skim.


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## MarshallV82

Snowolf said:


> Interesting about the loose bindings. I myself have noticed that I like my binding straps to allow a little bit of give. When I overtighten a binding strap I feel a huge change in the way my board as a whole feels and within 20 feet, I stop and back it off a notch.


I typically ride with my bindings a little loose too. I don't feel any loss and It feels better to me. I think it's mostly mental though, feels more playful or something..:dunno:


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## poutanen

edlo said:


> It is a snow board not a surfboard. You still snow for the wax to work otherwise you are in a pond skim.


Uhhh, what? :dunno: No comprende!


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## edlo

poutanen said:


> Uhhh, what? :dunno: No comprende!


The right wax for the right temperature. The only times I have to deal with the sticky stuff was when it was too warm and the snow was melting at the bottom of the runs creating pools of water. when I'd hit those flat I could feel the suction effect and speed brakes.


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## that1guy

I think that is what poutine was trying to say. I know well of this velcro snow. We get it a lot is Washington. Especially during the Junuary month.


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## rasmasyean

_
The base bevel determines how quickly your skis will "hook up" and turn. With a shallower bevel like the .5 degree your skis will tend to be more grabby and as you tilt your ski up on edge it will initiate the turn immediately. Compared to a deeper Bevel like the 2 degree which will take longer to "hook up", and *require the ski to be tilted further* onto the edge to initiate the turn._

Base Edge Beveling


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