# Airbag backpacks w/o cartridges - news?



## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

I've found three brands:
- JetForce used by Black Diamond Avalanche Airbag Revolution: Fan/Battery Powered Airbag = Black Diamond's "Jetforce" | SnowBrains.com 
- and also JetForce used by PIEPS http://www.pieps.com/en/inhalt/pieps-jetforce 
- and read about Arc'teryx designing a cartridge-free airbag with electro powered turbine as well (ARCâ€™TERYX Evolutionary, Life-saving Airbag Rescue System | ADT) but haven't found any newer info. 

Anyone knows more? Seen such a system? Thoughts?


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## killclimbz (Aug 10, 2007)

I have seen the JetForce. It is pretty slick. BD is doing a small run for this upcoming season. It will be hard to get and full price. $1200+.

The Arc'teryx version seems to have stalled out. Not a mention of it at SIA. I suspect they wanted to see BD's version to help gauge where they are at. 

The JetForce was the scene stealer at the show. It could very well be a game changer. I have a few questions about it but it does seem to be very thought out. 

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## West Baden Iron (Jan 31, 2013)

killclimbz said:


> I have seen the JetForce. It is pretty slick. BD is doing a small run for this upcoming season. It will be hard to get and full price. $1200+.
> 
> The Arc'teryx version seems to have stalled out. Not a mention of it at SIA. I suspect they wanted to see BD's version to help gauge where they are at.
> 
> ...


That does look like a slick system. One thought about the cartridge type that I always had was accidental deployment. I figured I would somehow set it off right before I dropped in and then have a useless tool when I needed it the most. Probably not likely, but I'm highly skilled at doing things that make people say, "How did you fuck that up?"


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## killclimbz (Aug 10, 2007)

I have had a friend accidentally deploy his airbag when we were in the field. Fucking funny but that meant he had shot his wad. So it can and does happen. It is nice that with the JetForce you get multiple deployments with one charge. 

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## Argo (Feb 25, 2010)

Checked it out with a rep that had one from SIA. It's a great design and cool system but my only worry is extreme cold and batteries. Great concept but I would wait a year or two for bugs to work out and use what is known to be reliable until then.


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## killclimbz (Aug 10, 2007)

I doubt "Extreme" cold is going to be much of an issue unless you are doing McKinley or something of that nature. It is already rated for 20 below temps. You lose a deploy or two. That isn't really the worry. 

The pack itself will probably get some refinements. This is a product that BD has had their athletes using for over 3 years now, so I would think it is getting fairly dialed. 

It is not going to be easy to get one next season anyway. The production is supposed to be something like 1000 units for all of their retailers globally. I wasn't even thinking about looking at getting one until 15/16 season. By then I would imagine the battery size and weight will have shrunk. That would be worth the weight alone.


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

killclimbz said:


> I have seen the JetForce. It is pretty slick. BD is doing a small run for this upcoming season. It will be hard to get and full price. $1200+.


Have you seen the Pieps JetForce pack as well? If so, which made the better impression? Could get my hands on both. Thinking back at the hassle flying with the cartridges I'm highly intrigued to get a JetForce for this season



Argo said:


> Checked it out with a rep that had one from SIA. It's a great design and cool system but my only worry is extreme cold and batteries. Great concept but I would wait a year or two for bugs to work out and use what is known to be reliable until then.


BD or Pieps?


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## Argo (Feb 25, 2010)

Bd...........


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## binarypie (Nov 29, 2009)

neni said:


> Have you seen the Pieps JetForce pack as well? If so, which made the better impression? Could get my hands on both. Thinking back at the hassle flying with the cartridges I'm highly intrigued to get a JetForce for this season
> 
> 
> 
> BD or Pieps?


my current pack is a BD and I'd buy another in a heartbeat.


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## Argo (Feb 25, 2010)

She is specifically talking about a bd pack with some new tech in it. It's fan blown air instead of compressed.....


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## binarypie (Nov 29, 2009)

Argo said:


> She is specifically talking about a bd pack with some new tech in it. It's fan blown air instead of compressed.....


I know that. My point is that BD makes good packs. If I had to choose between the two brands I'd choose the BD because I know it will fit me and I have experience with their warranty and durability.


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

What a pity that the S/M sized BD (28l) doesn't feature a snowboardcarry system.... just the big 40l does. The Pieps does as well and is 34l, thus I was tending to that one cos the big BD is probably pretty big for me - not only volume wise but also the overall size (I'm 5'8, rather slim)


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## killclimbz (Aug 10, 2007)

Black Diamond bought Pieps. So the Pieps 34L pack is probably just a BD pack branded under the Pieps label.


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## firlefranz (Jan 2, 2012)

So, has anyone made experience with the Pieps Jetforce? How does it compare to other avalanche bags?


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

I've ordered a Pieps 34L and a BD 40L some time ago but neither have yet been delivered. Ppl at the store claim that there were delivery problems but that they'll be on stock mid Dec. We'll see.


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## Elektropow (Mar 6, 2014)

Neni and other peeps, any comments on the Jetforce tech yet (hopefully not experience from intended use, but overall feel and useability)? I'm pretty close to ordering the Pieps 24L one. 

Thought about the 10L, but since the 24L one has a board carrying system and compression straps, I don't think it'll restrict maneuverability too much...


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

They didn't show up soon enough and we just kept using the "old" ones we had. After I heard from a guide that flying with them can be cumbersome as well (something like no such batteries allowed as carry on bagage in some airlines), I decided to stick with the cartridge system as with them, I meanwhile know to handle the flight circus .


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## Elektropow (Mar 6, 2014)

neni said:


> They didn't show up soon enough and we just kept using the "old" ones we had. After I heard from a guide that flying with them can be cumbersome as well (something like no such batteries allowed as carry on bagage in some airlines), I decided to stick with the cartridge system as with them, I meanwhile know to handle the flight circus .


Good to know! I'll check with my airline before my trip. Thanks a bunch!


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

Elektropow said:


> Good to know! I'll check with my airline before my trip. Thanks a bunch!


Yeah, check if you're allowed to carry them with you in the plane. Batteries can suffer if they're in the checked-in luggage (tempreature). 
The 4 camera batteries I had in the checked-in luggage on the last trip were dead after the flight


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## destroy (Dec 16, 2012)

Here's a quick thought - you could surround the batteries in a heater. You could take those pocket hand heaters and wrap them in something nice and insulated like your down jacket or a fleece. That would probably keep them warm or at least warm enough for several hours at least. You might have to worry about too much heat as well, but this could work quite well at saving batteries in your checked luggage from the cold of the cargo hold.


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## Elektropow (Mar 6, 2014)

Apparently no problem with my flight operator. Just bring the battery with me in hand luggage detached from the system.

I hope I won't have to pull the trigger, but it's confidence inspiring to be able to practise it well prior to potential use. Will report back, whether I've used it in an incident or just tinkering around.


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

Elektropow said:


> Apparently no problem with my flight operator. Just bring the battery with me in hand luggage detached from the system.
> 
> I hope I won't have to pull the trigger, but it's confidence inspiring to be able to practise it well prior to potential use. Will report back, whether I've used it in an incident or just tinkering around.


Awesome! Have a save trip, hope you will never hade to use it!

Curious to hear abt the overall usability of the backpack as well (I yet again have spent hours to prepare the carry on of our cartridge system to Japan. Aaaaww, it's such a cumbersome procedure...)


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## Elektropow (Mar 6, 2014)

neni said:


> Awesome! Have a save trip, hope you will never hade to use it!
> 
> Curious to hear abt the overall usability of the backpack as well (I yet again have spent hours to prepare the carry on of our cartridge system to Japan. Aaaaww, it's such a cumbersome procedure...)


Thanks! 

I'm hoping for a good winter! At least there's somewhat of a formed pack this early vs. last winter, but alas, you can never tell.

3 months in a good area with great access to a lot of places though, so I'll most likely get to access some great pow stashes, steeps and not


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