# Protection for freestyle



## SkullAndXbones (Feb 24, 2014)

if they'll make you feel safer and want the added protection then go for it. i don't wear any body armor or anything so i have no idea what brands you should look at.


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## tokyo_dom (Jan 7, 2013)

I have a 'turtle shell' as my wife calls it; back protector. It does give you a fair bit of confidence, but perhaps its false confidence. I was noticing that the shell would ride up, in the end it came up to the back of my neck, leaving only 5-10cm between the edge of it and my helmet; i.e. one easy break point should i land badly. Broken rib sucks, broken back would be devastating (paraplegic), but a broken neck would make me question whether life is still worth living. So i stopped wearing it

Might see if i can find a shorter protector so that i can still have protection without that danger. But I would think that anything less than a hard shell (or D3O) isnt going to help much with bigger falls.


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## kumimajava (Oct 11, 2011)

I used to ride with Dainese body armour (hardshell), until weight gain made an upgrade necessary. I switched to Forcefield kit instead, and am now riding in their 'Pro Shirt'. This has rated protection on elbows, shoulders, chest and back. The material isn't hardshell, nor D3O, but is some other kind of semi-soft/h foam. It is all tested and should meet the same standards (or higher) than the Dainese kit I used previously. So in relation to tokyo_dom's concerns about getting a piece of plastic in the neck, the Forcefield stuff avoids that.

One downside is that I find the finishing/stitching on the shirt to be rather poor quality, given the price. This is not a massive concern for me, since I can mend it if necessary (it's holding up ok in its 2nd season so far), but perhaps worth pointing out.

The Dainese gear was more bulky, but also stayed in place a bit better than the Forcefield shirt. In practice, it didn't seem to make a difference to protective performance, and neither impeded my movements significantly.

As to whether a spine protector is worth it - I started wearing one after noticed quite a few snowboarders getting T-boned by someone straightlining down the hill. The impact was often from behind - having something to distribute the point-impact (e.g. ski/knee/elbow/snowobard, etc.) across a larger area seemed worthwhile. I don't do tricks or jumps, and perhaps I'm being paranoid, but since I ride mostly at busy resorts, I'm never sure that there isn't an muppet uphill ready to plow into me. YMMV.

P.S. Regarding lower-body protection/impact-shorts. I would recommend getting some form of protection for the tailbone. If you're doing tricks or pushing yourself, it's a matter of time till your butt hits the deck in an unfortunate angle, and healing tailbone injuries is a prolonged PITA (literally) that can ruin a whole season. I ride in Dainese crash pants (with a plastic tailbone protector), since that was the only thing that my local shop had at the time - they work great. There's a ton of alternatives, which have been mentioned in various parts of this forum (Azzpads, Demon, etc).


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## strycker (Jan 28, 2015)

I'm brand new to boarding and I have no shame saying I have lots of protection. First time out I landed on my tailbone pretty hard. Next time I went I had picked up WolfBike padded cycling shorts from Amazon and they worked very well. That time I bruised both knees catching my toe edge, so now have some over knee Asics pads. Also picked up Dakine wrist guards. I figure this is a hobby and if I ruin parts I have to use daily, that would be bad. In time I'll slowly try to ween off them, but for now, they're on each time I go out. Besides landing on the wrist guard and bruising a rib, everything has kept me safe.


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## TooNice (Feb 7, 2014)

I was thinking of something like this: thegoodride.com/snowboard-accessory-reviews/xion-protective-gear-long-sleeve-jacket-review-and-buying-advice along with the matching legging.

I probably won't get those because I want to make sure I can get something that fits me perfectly but I was wondering if something similar would prevent the back protector from moving away from where it is supposed to, and generally be quicker to put on. On the downside, it forces me to have another layer, and I wonder what this does for mobility. 

Ah, I just noticed that I have been looking at things similar to what Kumimajava mentioned above. Being in Japan I will probably have to settle with local brands which I would have no problem with if only there were more reviews (even in Japanese). Is anyone familiar with Poron XRD? It is supposed to be a competitor to d3o though I can't find any independant comparison.


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## kumimajava (Oct 11, 2011)

My recommendation would be to write down the relevant 'testing standards' for back/impact protection, and head out to try a bunch of gear that matches those specs. From my recent ramble around the Tokyo snowboarding shops, there is a large variety of makes & models out there, so you're quite likely to find something that fits, and doesn't impede your motions. I've not had any issues with the back-protector riding up, even when I was using the Dainese hard-shell. 

Most of the upper-body armour tends to slip on as quickly as any other mid-layer/jumper. It does invariably make you warmer, but I just treat it as just another layer in terms of thermal performance. It's not a problem, unless you're riding in conditions that are so warm that you'd ideally go topless 

Curiously, during my recent trips to the mountains here in Japan, I'm seeing quite a lot of people using body armour/crash pants. But almost nobody using helmets. Quite different from what I'was used to seeing in Europe.


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## TooNice (Feb 7, 2014)

I run pretty hot, even when it gets pretty cold, I am mostly on two layers. I don't normally put a third layer unless it gets below -15C and on warmer days I will just wear a my base layer and a fleece.. if not just my base layer ^^;

That said, it probably won't *kill* me to run a bit warmer if need to be, especially in days I intend to spend time in the park.. or I could get a thinner non/insulated outer shell. Anyway, I will find a way around.

I paid more attention to the protection people wore in my most recent trip in Myoko. Generally I did not see much of *either* armour or helmet. I travelled with my archery club, and in our group of 20, no more than 5 (most likely less) including me wore helmets, and aside from me, those who wore helmets were all skiers. No one wore armour. On the slopes, I also noticed that far more Westerners wore helmets.

If I was to hazard a guess, part of it at least comes down to fashion. The armour I have seen in store looks kinda "edgy" and looking at some Amazon comments (in Japanese), some do comment positively to the look of the armour. And when worn under a jacket, you can't tell that easily anyway. I can't really say that I have ever seen any helmet that made me think "Damn, those look awesome", though that is not what they are for anyway.

Saying that, it *might* be changing. When I was shopping for Smith helmets I noted that many are sold out. Not sure if this is an issue peculiar to Smith helmets where most store did not keep much stock, but when I asked a staff about it, he told me that helmets are being sold out faster this year than the last. I don't think that this was a trick to make me buy something because they didn't have what I was looking for anyway.


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## tokyo_dom (Jan 7, 2013)

Having spoken to quite a few Japanese, it seems that for most, not wearing a helmet comes from a silly belief that only pros wear helmets, and that they dont want to be mistaken for a pro. Took quite a bit of convincing to get my wife to wear a 'met, since she loves going through areas, but is almost blind lol.

Now she loves it for how warm it is and the fact she has tunes in it.

It seems that the helmet attitudes are changing though - I see more people with helmets in the last year or so? But when you are going from 5% to 10% its still nothing like overseas.

I quite like the Sandbox helmets; bit of a baseball cap look


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## mojo maestro (Jan 6, 2009)

661, Fox, Troy Lee Designs, Dainese, Rockgarden, Race Face all make upper body armor for mt bikin'.


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## TooNice (Feb 7, 2014)

To be honest, until last week I was quite convinced that armour were for advanced / highly advanced skiers/snowboarders.. and until some people mentioned it in my Slam thread, I didn't know that people have met tragic end even on green course. I don't really follow this kind of news, and I only highly profile accident I heard of was Schumacher's ski accident.. and even then, it was my bro who told me. 

I suppose that growing up skiing at a time when it was unusual for recreational skiers/snowboarders to wear a helmet, shaped my view on it's necessity. But I do wear one now.


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## Zolemite (Dec 13, 2012)

I wear a Thor Chest &
Shoulder, Rib pads, Hillbilly crash shorts, Pro Tec Rail Guard knee & shin pads, helmet, goggles


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## Fewdfreak (May 13, 2013)

I never thought about body armor till I wrecked myself on a rail... Wore knee pads all last year and stopped this year and it happend again. Ugh if I'd only had on knee/shin pads... Saves yourself the bummer of being a gimp or taking it easy on the hill. I always wear a helmet, but if you are getting into hitting park def recommend knee/shin pads and maybe some shorts with padding, makes slams not so horrible.


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## slyder (Jan 18, 2010)

I wear a lot of protection. After crashing a month ago on a rail I just bought body armor. It covers a lot, chest, back, shoulders, and elbows. I use it mainly if Im now going in the park or practicing something I know I'll get banged up doing. 

I have no shame in wearing it. It helps protect me, gives me a bit more confidence that smaller falls won't hurt as much. Yes I could still get hurt but this is to try to minimize that. I did notice that even though it's mesh where the armor isn't I heat up quite a bit and mobility is somewhat tougher. Small price to pay. 

I'm still sore from that crash. Older guys take a while to heal. I didnt over analyze the impact specs. Found one on sale at a local motorcycle gear shop, it fit, I had cash in my wallet at the time, I bought it !!


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## Kevin137 (May 5, 2013)

I will 2nd the forcefield recommendation, i recently had a skier slam into me, and while i did have a back protector on, it was not the forcefiled, it was a simple Sweet Protection Bearsuit, which is the minimum i will use, if i am in the park or offsite i will have the Sweet Grinder or Forcefield Extreme

Forcefield Extreme Harness Adventure | Forcefield Body Armour

The Extreme is a very cool piece of kit, and you can remove the parts you don't want to use if doing something that does not require it, it is velcro together, but very effective...!

I also use the Level Biometric gloves for my wrists, and Sweet Griming Mips helmet, and i have forcefield impact shorts but again, only when in the park or offsite...

I never really saw the need for knee protectors and i have the elbows covered by way of my Extreme, but very rarely use them, only when hard off piste in an area i really am not familiar with...


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## TooNice (Feb 7, 2014)

Hmm, it seems like many of the brand mentioned here aren't found in Japan.

Shopping around in the high streets, so far I found two Japanese brands that kind of stood out.

One is Yuki-Ita Yoroi. They look like.. err.. something a grunt from a movie or computer game would wear in a futuristic setting. They have a lot of option, is pretty well marketed and even have an English catalogue (unfortunately you can't just download it as a PDF and have to flip through it page by page). The thing about their product, is that they have a lot of padding everywhere on the upper body. They didn't skimp on it. The downside is that aside from looking quite bulky, it uses none of the advanced material like d3o/Poron, sticking with Eva as padding and layering it with various other material. It also seem to sell the titanium mesh as something that will absorb shock and act as climate control. The issue I have with that, is that chainmail aren't exactly known for being effective at absorbing blunt trauma.

The other one is called Yoroi Musha, and is almost the opposite. Though their product can be found in major high street retailers, their website is on Wordpress and they didn't even bother updating it with their 2014-2015 lineup. The padding is also less extensive. The top doesn't having any padding below the ribs, and less surface is covered on the lower back area too. As to the bottom, it doesn't look like the entire shin is protected.

On the plus side, the technology is appealing. From what I can see, the Poron XRD is at least as good as d3o (used in their older products) and vastly superior to Eva frequently used other products I have seen. That said, they don't mention how much of the pad is Poron XRD and how much is NBR, the other padding they use in the product. Their latest model also add a layer of Kevlar on the outside, though I don't know (and doubt) that it is enough to protect me, but perhaps it might protect the material underneath (but to be honest, unless I wear it as an outer layer on warmer days).

My biggest concern is that does it actually provide sufficient padding overall?


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## stillz (Jan 5, 2010)

I know this thread is about armor, and I don't have any experience with that, but let's not forget that good decision making can save us a lot of grief, too. Any time you're using park features or natural features (even small ones!), it's good to be aware of the condition of those features before just sending them. Things change day to day. If you're unsure, just slide past it the first time, maybe stopping and inspecting it or just doing a mellow straight air off the knuckle, and note the condition and shape of the surface. Even if you know the feature and use it regularly, start small. Maybe there's an icy patch that wasn't there yesterday, right where you like to set up your spins. Maybe the takeoff ramp is rutted out or there's a nasty bomb hole in the landing area. These things could be problematic if you just try to go big right out of the gate. There's always the next lap to bust out your better tricks.


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## slyder (Jan 18, 2010)

to stillz point these things can change in the same day as well. Riding in the day then into the night when temps drop. Things freeze or change shape from the volume of riders that day. I always scope out features before I hit them, especially since our park/hill sees very heavy traffic. 

Good tip


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## Extremo (Nov 6, 2008)

Check out Troy Lee Designs protection. They're a moto brand and have been producing low profile protection for downhill mountain biking for years. A lot of their stuff is breathable, low profile, soft padding. I know a few guys who swear by it at the bike park.


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## Kevin137 (May 5, 2013)

TooNice said:


> Hmm, it seems like many of the brand mentioned here aren't found in Japan.


Thought would help you out with that, as forcefield is available over there... 

????????????????

Worth looking at


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## TooNice (Feb 7, 2014)

Thanks. I think I now know why I can't find most of the brands mentioned so far: I have been going round ski/snowboard shops, whereas a lot of the armour mentioned are foremost bike armour. 

I suppose that if it is good enough for motorbike, it should be good enough for snowboarding too.. if anything I wonder if they might end up being too thick to wear under a ski/snowboard jacket.

The Forcefield harness looks like a bit of hassle to put on and I not a big fan of velcro everywhere, so I am more interested in the Pro Shirt. 

Actually, I almost pulled the trigger just now, but sizing stopped me. I am short (mere 163cm) but I workout and have a chest size of about 93.5cm. Usually it means by that Japanese sizing (one size smaller than American/UK sizing - for instance the S Forcefield in Japan is actually an XS elsewhere), I am in between a S and a M (or XS and S in the West). 

This is illustrated in the two Japanese armour I mentioned earlier. For the Yuki-Ita Yoroi, S is definitely too small, whereas M is okay. For the Yoroi Musha, S fits me well enough that I never bothered trying M.

So I will have to see if I can find a store stocking the Forcefield.. The Pro Shirt look tight fitting, so going too small even by a few cm might end up being an uncomfortable fit. Yet the M size is supposed to be for those who are 170-180cm according to the Japanese chart which is far too big. This could affect where the elbow padding in the wrong place, or make the back padding too long.


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## Kevin137 (May 5, 2013)

The Harness is actually really easy to use, i use it like a vest and just velcro around the bottom (stomach/waist) it is really easy to get on, the sizes might be better understood from the forcefield site themselves, i have got the sizing page for you... 

http://www.forcefieldbodyarmour.com/SizingGuide.pdf

It is not so much measure in chest on the elite as it is very very adjustable on both sides, and once you have found the comfortable fit, you can undo one side to pull over your head...

I agree that it might be a good idea to try on though... Good luck in finding a stockist..


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## kumimajava (Oct 11, 2011)

The fabric on the pro-shirt is extremely stretchy, so in the worst case if you're just on the borderline, sizing down should not be a problem. On the other hand, I don't think if you have a size too big, that that would put the pads in the wrong place - all the pads are shaped/curved, so they would naturally sit where they should, you might just get a bit of bunched fabric around them. 

The one thing that does change with size is the size of the back-protector insert, but if I recall correctly, that changes between the M and L sizes - S and M may have the same size insert. Shoot them an email if you'd want to double-check (or give their product support number a Skype call, if you can - they are very helpful). I wanted to get the PS with the biggest back-protector, and was on the borderline of L/XL, so I called them to ask - turns out the protector size is the same for both, so I went with the tighter fitting L; I didn't actually try it for size, ordered it online. It's been working fine.

Regarding the harness, as Kevin said, it's actually not that much of a pain to put on - but it is a lot heavier, and more difficult to transport (especially if you try to get everything into one snowboard bag for transport - it takes up a LOT of space, and doesn't fold). For riding on-piste and at the resort, and I wear the pro-shirt, but if I ventured into the trees or backcountry, where I'd prefer a one-piece chest-plate, I'll take the harness.

Another bonus of the pro-shirt over the harness, especially if you sweat a lot, is the ease of cleaning. In the shirt, all the padding pops out & you can just toss the shirt itself into the washing machine. With the harness, you have to be content with just washing it with a damp cloth.

Finally, one thing to keep in mind when trying on this stuff is that it feels pretty stiff (esp. elbow/knee pads, and the back protector) from the off. However, when you wear it for a bit, and the foam warms up from your body heat, it becomes softer and more malleable, and will conform to your body better.


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## TooNice (Feb 7, 2014)

I found and tried the Forcefield today. It looks like I don't need to worry about S being too small after all. If anything it is looser than I expected. Not sure if this is a problem, like the elbow pad moving out of position. I will try it with my jacket on top of it (to see if 1. it fits and 2. if it holds the pads in place).

Since I was a bit nervous walking into a small biking store a few min from closing time, I wasn't super thorough and forgot to check if the size of the back pad. The shirt felt kinda long, but looking at the photo, the pads stops a good few cm higher so I want to make sure my whole back is covered. 

One major difference I noticed and liked is how thin the fabric is compared to ski/snowboard armour. I run warm and rarely wear mid-layer (and only lightweight ones), so I know I won't overheat in this and I may even be able to use it if I pick other activities where protection is desirable during warmer seasons. The pads do feel harder so it gives the impression of more protection though it might be stiffer too. I will need to verify it tomorrow.

By the way, once you remove all the pads, is the shirt machine washable? I checked the Yoroi Musha again and while I like how relatively snug it is, it seems more work to clean (and since it is warmer I will probably sweat more). There are more pads and even after removing them, I can't remove a second padding in the back which makes me less comfortable machine washing it.

Overall I am left with a good impression of the Forcefield but I need to be reassured that even if the pads won't move out to of position to the point it won't protect me (I think that the body, back, and even shoulder should be fine, but less sure about the elbow).


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## kumimajava (Oct 11, 2011)

it should be machine washable when you remove all the pads, that's one of the nice things about the pro-shirt. 

the back protector finishes quite far up - the idea is that it doesn't clash/overlap with any impact shorts that you would wear. In some cases, when the back protector extends too far down, it can actually push the tailbone protector of the crash pants (if you wear any) out of alignment.

one downside of the pro-shirt is that it doesn't give you any rib protection. I think they have a new harness that covers the ribs as well - have a think as to whether that matters to you. For me, it's not necessary, but YMMV.


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## TooNice (Feb 7, 2014)

Hmm, the Yoroi Musha I considered provides a bit of protection for the ribs, but it is diminutive padding.. better than nothing though. Would be nice if Forcefield had a belt-like accessory just for the ribs to be used with their shirts/vests.

But perhaps far more important than this.. other than practising safe falls, I want wrists guards as soon as possible. I have read many times that the most common injuries amongst snowboarders is the wrists, and someone I met a few days ago broke his on this second day of snowboarding on a green. The Flexmeter seem very respected, but I have once again issues with finding it in Japan (I did find one online store with it in stock, but they want $200 for it). Any other decent alternative or should I look for a way to import?


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## TooNice (Feb 7, 2014)

Super bump.

I ended up pretty happy with the Forcefield Pro-Shirt last season.

Since I ended up wrecking my lower body protector (Japanese make), I am thinking of getting the Forcefield Pro Pants.

Does anyone have any experience with them?

Also, any comments between impact shorts and full length protective pants?


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