# Anyone ride the Endeavor Maverick/Archetype?



## SnowDragon

Demo'd the Archetype for an hour in March.
I already own a Clout and a High5.
Endeavor makes some awesome boards IMO.

The Archetype can ride switch easily, which shocked me as it is a swallow tail.
Board is as much fun as my two boards. Great construction as well.
Unfortunately, I was not able to try it on powder.


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## Nivek

They will both be in the Angry Snowboarder review series


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## F1EA

I am *this* close to ordering an Archetype.

In fact, I might just grab one tomorrow.


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## GDimac

Nivek said:


> They will both be in the Angry Snowboarder review series


A little off topic, but so torn on grabbing a 159 Alter Ego for a great off-szn price. Esp after listening to your pod with Avram/Angry on quivers. It has been on my radar all yr, but when you said it rides just like the Berzerker it made me want to get it even more as that's one board I've been dying to ride for a long while now ... just gotta figure out how to spin it with my lady, esp since I already said I'm done getting boards indefinitely haha. First world problems lol.

And @F1EA ; has been talking well of Endeavour boards, plus been hearing nothing but good things about them. They're going full camber on their boards now no? Curious to try one eventually.


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## F1EA

GDimac said:


> A little off topic, but so torn on grabbing a 159 Alter Ego for a great off-szn price. Esp after listening to your pod with Avram/Angry on quivers. It has been on my radar all yr, but when you said it rides just like the Berzerker it made me want to get it even more as that's one board I've been dying to ride for a long while now ... just gotta figure out how to spin it with my lady, esp since I already said I'm done getting boards indefinitely haha. First world problems lol.
> 
> And @F1EA ; has been talking well of Endeavour boards, plus been hearing nothing but good things about them. They're going full camber on their boards now no? Curious to try one eventually.


There's a few Alter Egos on sale at the Whistler outlet....  I think like $360

Endeavor is not going full camber all around. I believe they're just going to use different profiles for the different board lines: 
The freestyle boards get RCR
All mtn/freestyle get full camber
All mtn get 3D camber
Then the freeride series stay with RCR.

Something along those lines....

Tell the lady you will always get more boards. And that the more she tries to stop you, the more boards you're going to get.


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## SnowDragon

F1EA said:


> Endeavor is not going full camber all around. I believe they're just going to use different profiles for the different board lines:
> The freestyle boards get RCR
> All mtn/freestyle get full camber
> All mtn get 3D camber
> Then the freeride series stay with RCR.
> 
> Something along those lines....


Well, the 2017 line up had
1. Rocker/flat/rocker
2. Rocker/camber/rocker
3. 3D rocker/camber/3D rocker
All 3 above were true twins.

4. Powder line of directional, tapered decks, with the Archetype being a swallow tail.

As mentioned above, I bought the Clout and High5, and demo'd the Archetype. They are all fun, poppy, versatile boards.
My favourite was the Clout, so I am selling my High5, but I could easily keep that one as well.


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## Triple8Sol

I've been eyeing one for awhile too! My buddy picked up the Scout, and it's a great all mountain type board.


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## jjj604

been looking and salivating for the archetype as well... i misread and thought you said $360 for that sucker 

ran into one of the endeavor guys up at cypress and he said that anybody on the fence about plopping down the cash for it can pickup one at their home base in railtown to testdrive it


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## zc1

F1EA said:


> ...different profiles for the different board lines:
> The freestyle boards get RCR
> All mtn/freestyle get full camber
> All mtn get 3D camber
> Then the freeride series stay with RCR.





GreyDragon said:


> Well, the 2017 line up had
> 1. Rocker/flat/rocker
> 2. Rocker/camber/rocker
> 3. 3D rocker/camber/3D rocker
> All 3 above were true twins.
> 
> 4. Powder line of directional, tapered decks, with the Archetype being a swallow tail.



*2016/17*
_All-Terrain Freestyle (R-F-R)
All-Terrain (R-C-R)_
All-Terrain Freeride (3D Camber)
Powder (Hover Camber)

*2017/18*
_Freestyle (R-C-R)
All-Terrain (Full Camber)_
Freeride (3D Camber)
Powder (Hover camber)

http://www.zuzupopo.com/xe/index.ph...t&search_keyword=endeavor&document_srl=183590

I own a Live limited edition. Its performance as an all-terrain board is middle-of-the-road IMO (appropriately so). It's a jack of all trades, and so-on. The build quality is outstanding. I'm looking forward to trying the full camber version.


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## CauseNAffect

These boards look so sick. 

Grey how do you like the clout, caught my eye. They have a pretty deep lineup of boards. so many fish in the pow sea.


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## SnowDragon

CauseNAffect said:


> These boards look so sick.
> 
> Grey how do you like the clout, caught my eye. They have a pretty deep lineup of boards. so many fish in the pow sea.


Honestly, read Angry Snowboarder's review here:
2017 Endeavor Clout Snowboard Review - The Angry Snowboarder

It says everything I feel about the Clout.
I have ridden many boards from different manufacturers and with different camber profiles over my 12 years of riding.
With the exception of powder, the Clout can do everything well. So much so, that I am reducing my board collection from 9 at the beginning of 2017 to 2 now. Just the Clout for everything except powder, and a Smokin Jetson for powder.

The same day I demo'd the Archetype, a guy in my club went to demo the Never Summer Type 2. As I was his instructor that day for a class, he asked what I would recommend. I said the Clout. He demo'd both boards and preferred the Clout.

Nuff said.:nerd:


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## CauseNAffect

GreyDragon said:


> Honestly, read Angry Snowboarder's review here:
> 2017 Endeavor Clout Snowboard Review - The Angry Snowboarder
> It says everything I feel about the Clout.
> Nuff said.:nerd:


Sheeeet. I mean their boards look MEAN. Like they're meant strictly for hurting people. The Clout or Bod look like they could beat out the PYL for my steeps / bc freestyle charger stick. What size did you get in the clout and is it capable in powder or not fun? They're all on sale for like $330 USD. thatsssss nice.


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## F1EA

CauseNAffect said:


> Sheeeet. I mean their boards look MEAN. Like they're meant strictly for hurting people. The Clout or Bod look like they could beat out the PYL for my steeps / bc freestyle charger stick. What size did you get in the clout and is it capable in powder or not fun? They're all on sale for like $330 USD. thatsssss nice.


Yeah the Clout is a beast.
Wouldn't say it's the same type of board as PyL. But for an aggressive and versatile twin it's pretty solid.

My buddy has a Live and a BOD, he loves the BOD which has the same profile as the Clout.

I have a Live too and it's​ kick ass.


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## CauseNAffect

F1EA said:


> Yeah the Clout is a beast.
> Wouldn't say it's the same type of board as PyL. But for an aggressive and versatile twin it's pretty solid.
> 
> My buddy has a Live and a BOD, he loves the BOD which has the same profile as the Clout.
> 
> I have a Live too and it's​ kick ass.


How would you decide between the clout and the BOD? 158 or 162's available in both for super cheap. 162 i'm thinking in the clout. I like that these seem to lean a lil more twin/freestyle which would replace my TT nicely. The Maverick also looks DOPE for a more powder inclined BC charger.


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## F1EA

CauseNAffect said:


> How would you decide between the clout and the BOD? 158 or 162's available in both for super cheap. 162 i'm thinking in the clout. I like that these seem to lean a lil more twin/freestyle which would replace my TT nicely. The Maverick also looks DOPE for a more powder inclined BC charger.


Flex.

BOD is ~mid flex. The Clout is slightly firmer.

So I would say.... depends what you're looking for. Both are going to be more aggressive than the Type 2.

But if you're looking at something just a little bit more aggressive and with a ton of pop, then BOD is a solid choice. If you're looking for something more aggressive altogether but also reasonably playful... then Clout.

Clout would be along the lines of Mountain Twin. BOD along the lines of B Custom.

Also yeah, Maverick looks dope but I've never tried it. Similar flex to BOD but in a more directional shape. All their boards are kind of freestyle oriented (even the pow stuff) so they are not overly directional, straight-liners nor overly stiff (like for example Jones boards).


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## F1EA

........aaaaand I just YOLO'd an Archetype


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## SnowDragon

F1EA said:


> Flex.
> 
> BOD is ~mid flex. The Clout is slightly firmer.
> 
> So I would say.... depends what you're looking for. Both are going to be more aggressive than the Type 2.
> 
> But if you're looking at something just a little bit more aggressive and with a ton of pop, then BOD is a solid choice. If you're looking for something more aggressive altogether but also reasonably playful... then Clout.
> 
> Clout would be along the lines of Mountain Twin. BOD along the lines of B Custom.
> 
> Also yeah, Maverick looks dope but I've never tried it. Similar flex to BOD but in a more directional shape. All their boards are kind of freestyle oriented (even the pow stuff) so they are not overly directional, straight-liners nor overly stiff (like for example Jones boards).


I agree with pretty much all of the above.
For me, a quiver of two would be the Clout for everything except deep powder, Archetype for deep powder.

As f1ea mentions, despite being quite stable, these boards are very poppy and lively, and can ride from peak to park really well. Presses are so much fun for such stable boards.

One correction to f1ea's comments...the powder boards (Maverick, Archetype) are set back 30mm so quite directional, plus a 5mm taper. Nonetheless, the Archetype rode switch on groomers so easily and was as much fun as my Clout.

Edit: I ride a 158 at 185 lbs. in case that helps.


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## SnowDragon

CauseNAffect said:


> 158 or 162's available in both for super cheap.


Where do you see these boards?
I can't find any online.
I'd like to get a wide version of the Clout to try.


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## F1EA

GreyDragon said:


> One correction to f1ea's comments...the powder boards (Maverick, Archetype) are set back 30mm so quite directional, plus a 5mm taper. Nonetheless, the Archetype rode switch on groomers so easily and was as much fun as my Clout.
> 
> Edit: I ride a 158 at 185 lbs. in case that helps.


Yeah but still.....
If you look at a Jones Hovercraft: has 0 tail. Lots of setback and taper.
Fish... the same.... 54mm setback forgot how much taper and almost no tail.
NS Swift the same. Landlord.... Koruas... etc

The Maverick is 30mm setabck, only 5mm taper which is almost nothing and full tip and tail. So while still directional, it's kind of Flight Attendant-ish.


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## F1EA

GreyDragon said:


> Where do you see these boards?
> I can't find any online.
> I'd like to get a wide version of the Clout to try.


Check Endeavor's website or call Showcase in Whistler. 

I saw a few there at Showcase. They don't have a full online store but you can call to see what they have and I'm pretty sure they'd ship for free within Canada.


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## CauseNAffect

GreyDragon said:


> I agree with pretty much all of the above.
> For me, a quiver of two would be the Clout for everything except deep powder, Archetype for deep powder.
> 
> As f1ea mentions, despite being quite stable, these boards are very poppy and lively, and can ride from peak to park really well. Presses are so much fun for such stable boards.
> 
> One correction to f1ea's comments...the powder boards (Maverick, Archetype) are set back 30mm so quite directional, plus a 5mm taper. Nonetheless, the Archetype rode switch on groomers so easily and was as much fun as my Clout.
> 
> Edit: I ride a 158 at 185 lbs. in case that helps.


Grey is that your weight without gear? I'm 180lbs walking around without gear on, and like the mobility of my current 157. Adding avey gear / boots etc I'm probly 210. Deciding between the 158 or 162 in the clout now.


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## SnowDragon

CauseNAffect said:


> Grey is that your weight without gear? I'm 180lbs walking around without gear on, and like the mobility of my current 157. Adding avey gear / boots etc I'm probly 210. Deciding between the 158 or 162 in the clout now.


185 without gear.

Check the Endeavor website for the specs on their boards.
The Clout has a longer effective edge than the High5 due to the camber/rocker profile.
Unless you want more edge for carving, I can't see a need for the 162 versus the 158.


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## CauseNAffect

Copped the 158 clout for $335 SHIPPED... god damn I like that price. 
Quiver build in full effect.


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## CauseNAffect

F1EA said:


> ........aaaaand I just YOLO'd an Archetype


Congrats. Shit looks so nice.


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## SnowDragon

CauseNAffect said:


> Copped the 158 clout for $335 SHIPPED... god damn I like that price.
> Quiver build in full effect.





F1EA said:


> Check Endeavor's website or call Showcase in Whistler.
> 
> I saw a few there at Showcase. They don't have a full online store but you can call to see what they have and I'm pretty sure they'd ship for free within Canada.


Thanks for the heads up f1ea.
Just got off the phone with Showcase.
They have the board I want (157W) but only 20% off.:frown:
Not sure I want to pay that much for end of season.

CauseNEffect, where did you buy your Clout?
Any 157W there?


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## CauseNAffect

GreyDragon said:


> Thanks for the heads up f1ea.
> Just got off the phone with Showcase.
> They have the board I want (157W) but only 20% off.:frown:
> Not sure I want to pay that much for end of season.
> 
> CauseNEffect, where did you buy your Clout?
> Any 157W there?


https://www.commitsnowandskate.ca/collections/snowboards/products/endeavor-clout-series
is where I got mine. No 157W. I looked around for you and couldn't find one.


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## GDimac

The Clout, BOD, Maverick & Archetype all look so gangster. Love the black out theme of their Powder Quiver series. 

Ya the Maverick looks like the FA/S Rocker profile. Archetype looks amazing too with the swallowtail, which is all the rage with all the brands for past couple szns now.

But fackk, if I wasnt so locked into getting the Alter Ego, would have the considered the Mav. Initially the Archetype cos def want a swallowtail in the quiver if I'm adding another but the ww even at 158 is like 26.


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## SnowDragon

CauseNAffect said:


> https://www.commitsnowandskate.ca/collections/snowboards/products/endeavor-clout-series
> is where I got mine. No 157W. I looked around for you and couldn't find one.


Thanks for checking.
I'll wait for next year.
The Clout isn't changing other than the graphics, and I get them on a pro deal at a very good discount.:smile:

Edit: Did you get your board from a Canadian site? As in Canadian $? If so, that is AWESOME!!!


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## CauseNAffect

GreyDragon said:


> Thanks for checking.
> I'll wait for next year.
> The Clout isn't changing other than the graphics, and I get them on a pro deal at a very good discount.:smile:
> 
> Edit: Did you get your board from a Canadian site? As in Canadian $? If so, that is AWESOME!!!


FUCK YES i did, lol, So cheap. Ill give you a comparison. On EVO they are $393 USD without shipping, on this canadian site they are 452CAD - $330 USD Shipped. So 100 savings easily on an already discounted price. Ideally would like to buy all my gear from canada to save cash if possible. Bought my kindred full custom basalt splitboard CAD too, so saved money on that. Loving canada


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## F1EA

Rusty Ockenden from the Manboys crew. He rides the Clout (white base) and BOD (black base):





https://youtu.be/Gm2XpuMiFyU

Shout out to @GDimac who's sitting at home dreaming of BC pow


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## GDimac

F1EA said:


> Rusty Ockenden from the Manboys crew. He rides the Clout (white base) and BOD (black base):
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://youtu.be/Gm2XpuMiFyU
> 
> Shout out to @GDimac who's sitting at home dreaming of BC pow


LOL respect ... and tis is true .


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## SGboarder

GreyDragon said:


> The Clout has a longer effective edge than the High5 due to the camber/rocker profile.


Erm what? How/why would that be? Camber profile does not affect EE length.


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## GDimac

SGboarder said:


> GreyDragon said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Clout has a longer effective edge than the High5 due to the camber/rocker profile.
> 
> 
> 
> Erm what? How/why would that be? Camber profile does not affect EE length.
Click to expand...

Loll SG always making sure this forum is on its toes and not on alt-facts hahah.

Btw where do you ride mainly SG?


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## SnowDragon

SGboarder said:


> Erm what? How/why would that be? Camber profile does not affect EE length.


It doesn't?
What does "early rise tips" (rockered tips) mean then?

From the Endeavor website, the 158 Clout has an EE of 122.2, while the 158 High5 has an EE of 120.9.
These boards are identical in every way except camber profile.

What am I missing?


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## zc1

GreyDragon said:


> It doesn't?
> What does "early rise tips" (rockered tips) mean then?
> 
> From the Endeavor website, the 158 Clout has an EE of 122.2, while the 158 High5 has an EE of 120.9.
> These boards are identical in every way except camber profile.
> 
> What am I missing?


Easiest proof of this: manufacturer makes three boards exactly the same, then presses one as rocker, another as as RCR, and the last as full camber. Their effective edges remain equal. Bending them differently doesn't change that. 

There's a lot of messiness in the descriptions from various manufacturers, but one of the changes is the contact length (which for me means flat base length, weighted or unweighted). The greater the difference between the effective edge and the contact length, the more loose the board will feel.

In addition, specific to the discussion here, the specs provided are neither identical, nor complete.


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## F1EA

GreyDragon said:


> It doesn't?
> What does "early rise tips" (rockered tips) mean then?
> 
> From the Endeavor website, the 158 Clout has an EE of 122.2, while the 158 High5 has an EE of 120.9.
> These boards are identical in every way except camber profile.
> 
> What am I missing?


Not identical. The sidecut radius and waist is different. Probably also one has more blunted nose...

But yeah no difference in EE from the profile. The profile does affect the running length.


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## SGboarder

zc1 said:


> Easiest proof of this: manufacturer makes three boards exactly the same, then presses one as rocker, another as as RCR, and the last as full camber. Their effective edges remain equal. Bending them differently doesn't change that.
> 
> There's a lot of messiness in the descriptions from various manufacturers, but one of the changes is the contact length (which for me means flat base length, weighted or unweighted). The greater the difference between the effective edge and the contact length, the more loose the board will feel.
> 
> In addition, specific to the discussion here, the specs provided are neither identical, nor complete.





F1EA said:


> Not identical. The sidecut radius and waist is different. Probably also one has more blunted nose...
> 
> But yeah no difference in EE from the profile. The profile does affect the running length.


Those two got it exactly right: Camber profile has no impact on effective edge length. And as F1EA points out there are other differences between the Clout and the Hi5 (not just the profile).


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## SGboarder

GDimac said:


> Btw where do you ride mainly SG?


Austria and Switzerland early and late in the season plus some trips to Japan in Jan/Feb.

Only occasionally in North America and then mostly West Coast (CA and PNW).


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## BurtonAvenger

If you can get an Archetype Swallow Tail, DO IT!!!!! Seriously do it!


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## SnowDragon

BurtonAvenger said:


> If you can get an Archetype Swallow Tail, DO IT!!!!! Seriously do it!


So much looking forward to your review of the Archetype!
Are you reviewing the Maverick also?


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## GDimac

SGboarder said:


> GDimac said:
> 
> 
> 
> Btw where do you ride mainly SG?
> 
> 
> 
> Austria and Switzerland early and late in the season plus some trips to Japan in Jan/Feb.
> 
> Only occasionally in North America and then mostly West Coast (CA and PNW).
Click to expand...

Solid, you get to ride any of that late szn pow you guys have been getting? Seeing so many euro pros so stoked but also pleasantly surprised of how much you guys are getting this time of year. Specifically Stale & RK1, Mons Roisland etc.



BurtonAvenger said:


> If you can get an Archetype Swallow Tail, DO IT!!!!! Seriously do it!


Solid job on the pods again dude, esp the Techcast. And good to hear the audio getting clearer/louder each epi too lol.


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## KTaktin

Oh wow this is some awesome feedback, you guys are doing a really good job in tempting me to get an archetype haha

If I were to get one, what size should I go for at 165 lb?


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## F1EA

KTaktin said:


> Oh wow this is some awesome feedback, you guys are doing a really good job in tempting me to get an archetype haha
> 
> If I were to get one, what size should I go for at 165 lb?


you're lucky there's more than 1 left 

Anyways.... to give you an idea, I'm 170 lbs size US11 boots and got the 158.

Where, how deep and how big do you ride?


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## KTaktin

@F1EA: unfortunately I'm in the midwest for most of the year, though i try to make a trip to Colorado once a year. Mostly asking since there's a 154 on sale for way cheaper than the 158, so I was curious to see if I could just go shorter


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## F1EA

KTaktin said:


> @F1EA: unfortunately I'm in the midwest for most of the year, though i try to make a trip to Colorado once a year. Mostly asking since there's a 154 on sale for way cheaper than the 158, so I was curious to see if I could just go shorter


Hmmm you're a bit borderline there.

The 154 might work if you're already used to short boards and have smaller feet; and are not planning to take it to Japan or Alaska or BC for guaranteed deep days.

Question is... are you looking for a powder board or just something that floats better than whatever you have.

If it's going to be hit or miss (powder) but you want to be ok if you do hit pow and want something still playful but more chargeable than say a short park twin, then the Maverick is better. 

If you want a floaty shape but have small feet and are used to short boards then the 154 AT seems decent. But if you want a proper pow stick for deep days then get the 158 AT.


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## BurtonAvenger

GreyDragon said:


> So much looking forward to your review of the Archetype!
> Are you reviewing the Maverick also?


It's somewhere in the 200 plus reviews we have going on. 



KTaktin said:


> Oh wow this is some awesome feedback, you guys are doing a really good job in tempting me to get an archetype haha
> 
> If I were to get one, what size should I go for at 165 lb?


For CO you'll be fine on the 154, the only time it will struggle is if it's late season pow where it can get heavy.


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## F1EA

Damn. The finishing on this thing is top notch.
Super slick and everything very clean and well made. 

There's some reflection on the top sheet, but it is all neat:









Mucho camber:


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## Alonzo

That looks _really_ nice. Flat black > everything else.


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## F1EA

Alonzo said:


> That looks _really_ nice. Flat black > everything else.


Yeah I had seen a few in shops, but always with the plastic wrap on; also stock pics are not that great for these late release pow boards. 

But when taken out you can see how cool the full black actually looks, and the sidewalls and general finish is top notch.


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## CauseNAffect

so sexy.

yea definitely copping a 158 in this, watched a video with the owner saying you should downise on it but im pretty that size will be fine.
if i have to choose one single directional powder slasher for deep days, (at least for the next year), i think this is a good pick.


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## F1EA

CauseNAffect said:


> so sexy.
> 
> yea definitely copping a 158 in this, watched a video with the owner saying you should downise on it but im pretty that size will be fine.
> if i have to choose one single directional powder slasher for deep days, (at least for the next year), i think this is a good pick.


Yeah definitely a powder board. Looking at it (camber section, width, setback, taper etc) seems like somewhere inbetween Fish and Landlord. Which is pretty dope.

You can downsize on it because it is wide. BUT in my case 158 is just 1cm shorter than my "regular board" length (my Endeavor Live and Landlord are 159) and my other boards are longer, So I'm kind of downsizing but not much.....

Other than that, yeah. Deep powder stick in the vein of anything Mid-wide, cambered and with a swallow tail. I'm pretty sure it will rip groomers too.


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## CauseNAffect

sounds rad, wondering how it floats in deep snow vs a rocker swallowtail. It's rocker at tip n tail, but wonder how much noticeable difference there is in feeling riding one vs. another (if i have to get one powder board for next season, want it to be japow level capable).


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## F1EA

CauseNAffect said:


> sounds rad, wondering how it floats in deep snow vs a rocker swallowtail. It's rocker at tip n tail, but wonder how much noticeable difference there is in feeling riding one vs. another (if i have to get one powder board for next season, want it to be japow level capable).


A rocker swallow tail... do they even make those?

That would be kind of redundant. The idea of a swallow tail is to keep a normal camber feeling on hardpacked stuff, with the lift coming in on soft snow. If you're going to have full rocker, then no need for a cut out tail, as the tip will be already lifted from the rocker....


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## Mig Fullbag

F1EA said:


> A rocker swallow tail... do they even make those?
> 
> That would be kind of redundant. The idea of a swallow tail is to keep a normal camber feeling on hardpacked stuff, with the lift coming in on soft snow. If you're going to have full rocker, then no need for a cut out tail, as the tip will be already lifted from the rocker....


Jones Stormchaser is the first to come to mind. My Fullbag Lifer is flat under the bindings but has a rockered nose and a rockered swallowtail. Based on your statement, any board with full rocker wouldn't need any taper, setback, short tails/cut offs, or any other means to reduce surface area in the back. Rocker in itself does not make a board float more. It makes it easier to manoeuver in the deep stuff by diminishing downward pressure near the contact points (widest points) of cambered boards of similar shape. That is why it "feels" floatier, particularly on twin or almost twin shapes, but really isn't. Makes it easier to ride soft snow/pow on twinish shapes. Float comes mainly from shape, not just camber profile.


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## F1EA

Mig Fullbag said:


> Jones Stormchaser is the first to come to mind. My Fullbag Lifer is flat under the bindings but has a rockered nose and a rockered swallowtail. Based on your statement, any board with full rocker wouldn't need any taper, setback, short tails/cut offs, or any other means to reduce surface area in the back. Rocker in itself does not make a board float more. It makes it easier to manoeuver in the deep stuff by diminishing downward pressure near the contact points (widest points) of cambered boards of similar shape. That is why it "feels" floatier, particularly on twin or almost twin shapes, but really isn't. Makes it easier to ride soft snow/pow on twinish shapes. Float comes mainly from shape, not just camber profile.


Lifer is flat then rocker tips.
Storm chaser is flat+rocker nose, also spoon, etc

This is not full rocker. 

I'm talking up there about full rocker + swallow tail. 

Which is what causeneffect was asking i think? 
I dont think there's any full rocker + swallow tail. I'm not saying that rocker makes a board 'float more'.

The Archetype is rocker tips to camber. 
Fish is rocker tip to flat. Used to be rocker tip to camber.
Skipjack is rocker tip to flat, and there's a version with rocker tip to camber.
Jones Hovercraft is rocker tip to camber.
Burton Cheetah and Cloudsplitter are rocker tip to camber (or was it full camber) with swallow tail.
The Koruas are either rocker tip to camber or to flat.
Etc. 

That's what I mean. 

But yeah I agree with you.... full rocker or rocker under feet makes it "feel" floaty... but it really doesnt float more. People think that it floats more because it is loser. But yes, float comes from the shape.


----------



## Phedder

F1EA said:


> Mucho camber:


Goddamn that's a thing of beauty, and so much camber! If you get a chance could you please measure the width across the rear reference insert?


----------



## F1EA

Phedder said:


> Goddamn that's a thing of beauty, and so much camber! If you get a chance could you please measure the width across the rear reference insert?


Width at the ref rear is about 26.25 cm.

Front ref is about 27.5 cm.


----------



## CauseNAffect

So nice hearing all of this information. And yes I had just looked at the jones stormchaser before asking, was referring more to rocker. Makes sense it has a floatier feel, which my CRC board did with the rocker. The question was most directly related to what profile was more fun in powder, and if there is a large difference. I'm assuming the archetype will be plenty fun, just don't have much to compare it to in the deep vs something else. I'm getting the idea though, appreciate the comments.

I'm quite excited to have multiple boards now to get first-hand experience with these things. REALLY NICE.

Archetype getting copped.


----------



## SGboarder

F1EA said:


> Lifer is flat then rocker tips.
> Storm chaser is flat+rocker nose, also spoon, etc
> 
> This is not full rocker.
> 
> I'm talking up there about full rocker + swallow tail.
> 
> Which is what causeneffect was asking i think?
> I dont think there's any full rocker + swallow tail. I'm not saying that rocker makes a board 'float more'.
> 
> The Archetype is rocker tips to camber.
> Fish is rocker tip to flat. Used to be rocker tip to camber.
> Skipjack is rocker tip to flat, and there's a version with rocker tip to camber.
> Jones Hovercraft is rocker tip to camber.
> Burton Cheetah and Cloudsplitter are rocker tip to camber (or was it full camber) with swallow tail.
> The Koruas are either rocker tip to camber or to flat.
> Etc.
> 
> That's what I mean.
> 
> But yeah I agree with you.... full rocker or rocker under feet makes it "feel" floaty... but it really doesnt float more. People think that it floats more because it is loser. But yes, float comes from the shape.


Actually the Storm Chaser is really full rocker. Technically there might be tiny flat section just in front of the rear binding but it is effectively irrelevant. 
Similar for the flat Burton boards with nose rocker past the front binding.

That said, with the base contouring/speed channel the Storm Chaser is not really a traditional swallow tail any longer.


----------



## F1EA

CauseNAffect said:


> So nice hearing all of this information. And yes I had just looked at the jones stormchaser before asking, was referring more to rocker. Makes sense it has a floatier feel, which my CRC board did with the rocker. The question was most directly related to what profile was more fun in powder, and if there is a large difference. I'm assuming the archetype will be plenty fun, just don't have much to compare it to in the deep vs something else. I'm getting the idea though, appreciate the comments.
> 
> I'm quite excited to have multiple boards now to get first-hand experience with these things. REALLY NICE.
> 
> Archetype getting copped.


Yeah that's what I thought.

As for which profile is more fun in powder that's hard to answer.

I REALLY like rocker nose to flat in powder. 

But it loses out a bit on harder snow and pop.... so camber + swallow or nose rocker, or reduced tail surface, etc sort of offers better compromise for pow vs groomers and pop in my opinion. 

But if it was pure japan style deep pow all day...... I'd personally go with flat with rocker nose. Even add a small swallow or chopped tail. 

Like.... Burton Panhandler​, Fish, Fullbag Lifer, Charlie Slasher, Yes 420 etc. I'd take that Lifer or Fish to Japan any day. 

But most people don't get such luxuries.... so nose rocker to camber works pretty well under more mixed conditions. 




SGboarder said:


> Actually the Storm Chaser is really full rocker. Technically there might be tiny flat section just in front of the rear binding but it is effectively irrelevant.
> Similar for the flat Burton boards with nose rocker past the front binding.
> 
> That said, with the base contouring/speed channel the Storm Chaser is not really a traditional swallow tail any longer.


Well ok... There's MAYBE possibly one. Storm Chaser.
Any others? 

Point is...full rocker + swallow tail is not very common, because it is kind of redundant to just lift the nose even more.


----------



## Alonzo

Man, I bet fucking around with the stance on that thing will be really fun. With 3 cms of taper and the swallow, I doubt you'll ever need more setback than the 3 cm reference, though It may feel good. I wonder how it will feel slammed forward of reference? It could potentially be awesome for darting nimbly through tight trees. Depending on weight, you likely still would bury the nose. Should be a lot of fun dialing it in.

I'm _really_ looking forward to your take on that thing once shit gets deep next season.


----------



## CauseNAffect

F1EA said:


> Yeah that's what I thought.
> 
> As for which profile is more fun in powder that's hard to answer.
> 
> I REALLY like rocker nose to flat in powder.


What made you decide on getting the archetype, considering you already have the fish. And obviously more boards the better fuck yes, but in terms of already having a great pow stick why leap for the arc? The versatility it gives you for powder AND some mixed conditions?


----------



## Alonzo

CauseNAffect said:


> What made you decide on getting the archetype, considering you already have the fish. And obviously more boards the better, but in terms of already having a great pow stick why leap for the arc? The versatility it gives you for powder AND some mixed conditions?


Dude, it looks rad and he's addicted to buying and riding snowboards, so he bought it - that's all it takes. 

This is one of those internet echo chambers in which addicts congregate to enable each other. It's like an Ana & Mia site for people with a radder hobby. We're all here because we're addicted to being rad, and we'll all keep throwing our money down the snowboarding well until our significant others inevitably leave us.


----------



## F1EA

CauseNAffect said:


> What made you decide on getting the archetype, considering you already have the fish. And obviously more boards the better fuck yes, but in terms of already having a great pow stick why leap for the arc? The versatility it gives you for powder AND some mixed conditions?


Because YOLO.
It's black.
And snowboards are cool.

I would like a 159 Fish but they don't make them. (mine is a 161). 

So Archetype 158 its not as wide, longer sidecut radius and with more camber than 161 Fish. So a bit more versatile, but still more pow board than the 159 Landlord. 

Something like that


----------



## CauseNAffect

i wish i had more gear to give back the gifts i've received in gear knowledge on here. Forever indebted. 

Where did you get your archetype. The canadian endeavor site has them for $449 USA, wondering if i can get it cheaper at 158


----------



## CauseNAffect

I also just received the clout in. The archetype has a lot of visible camber, the Clout is labeled as 3D camber with Raised contact points. I would consider it an early rise to flat board, 0 visible camber and 0 compression when pressing it in the center. I'm excited to ride it, looks bomber as F. Tad surprised based on the profile drawings on the site, etc


----------



## F1EA

CauseNAffect said:


> I also just received the clout in. The archetype has a lot of visible camber, the Clout is labeled as 3D camber with Raised contact points. I would consider it an early rise to flat board, 0 visible camber and 0 compression when pressing it in the center. I'm excited to ride it, looks bomber as F. Tad surprised based on the profile drawings on the site, etc


Is this what you have?
https://can.endeavorsnowboards.com/products/2017-clout-series

Specs say 5mm camber.


----------



## CauseNAffect

image122 by CausNAffect

The camber in the center is near indiscernible. A little bit moreso around the contact points. It's interesting, was expecting more dramatic look of camber in the middle. i highlighted the camber areas with a red slash (probly not needed but image is tough to see)


----------



## F1EA

CauseNAffect said:


> image122 by CausNAffect
> 
> The camber in the center is near indiscernible. A little bit moreso around the contact points. It's interesting, was expecting more dramatic look of camber in the middle. i highlighted the camber areas with a red slash (probly not needed but image is tough to see)


Yeah that looks flat. Unless the surface is not perfectly flat...

But there appears to be some camber going on, maybe it's a hybrid camber to flat to camber again thing? I don't know. Ask them via email to be certain (and if it ever matters heh).


----------



## CauseNAffect

F1EA said:


> Yeah that looks flat. Unless the surface is not perfectly flat...
> 
> But there appears to be some camber going on, maybe it's a hybrid camber to flat to camber again thing? I don't know. Ask them via email to be certain (and if it ever matters heh).


Yeah i'm gunna rip it regardless. Just sake of conversation / QC / product spec accuracy.


----------



## F1EA

CauseNAffect said:


> Yeah i'm gunna rip it regardless. Just sake of conversation / QC / product spec accuracy.


Yep. I doubt it would be a QC thing as really, their stuff has really good build and quality. More likely.... sloppy or lazy spec text.


----------



## CauseNAffect

IMG_9036 
IMG_9037 
Fuck now i have to wait to ride it. Topsheet black / uv spot coating shimmer is dope.


----------



## F1EA

Haha yep gotta wait to shred it. That's the big downside of late season buying :crying:

But yeah the board looks nice. Really nice finishing and slick details. 

Manboys' Rusty O. shredding it in the meantime heheh
https://youtu.be/e0_Yhz0Da9g

(Previous season Clout is the base with the smilie face I think).


----------



## timmytard

CauseNAffect said:


> sounds rad, wondering how it floats in deep snow vs a rocker swallowtail. It's rocker at tip n tail, but wonder how much noticeable difference there is in feeling riding one vs. another (if i have to get one powder board for next season, want it to be japow level capable).


Full rocker in powder is kinda unbeatable.
I think the difference would be night and day..


TT


----------



## jjj604

rocker in pow is one thing. add taper to the mix with a swallow/chopped tail and you're in a happy place *shaka*


----------



## F1EA

jjj604 said:


> rocker in pow is one thing. add taper to the mix with a swallow/chopped tail and you're in a happy place *shaka*


Yep. Rocker is awesome for pow. 

BUT... a FULL rocker board with taper and a swallow tail. 
Where are those and how come you don't see many, if at all??

Thing is..... rocker does not "add float". What rocker does is lift the contact points.

Taper does not add float either. Taper lifts the nose.

A swallow tail does not add float. It lifts the nose.

Surface area.... adds float.

On the other hand, full camber is not that great in Pow. Yet... there's lots of full camber pow sticks. How come?


----------



## SGboarder

F1EA said:


> Yep. Rocker is awesome for pow.
> 
> BUT... a FULL rocker board with taper and a swallow tail.
> Where are those and how come you don't see many, if at all??
> 
> Thing is..... rocker does not "add float". What rocker does is lift the contact points.
> 
> Taper does not add float either. Taper lifts the nose.
> 
> A swallow tail does not add float. It lifts the nose.
> 
> Surface area.... adds float.
> 
> On the other hand, full camber is not that great in Pow. Yet... there's lots of full camber pow sticks. How come?


That is not quite right. The single best way to increase float is by having long drawn out nose rocker. Make the nose nice and wide as well and you have a pow capable deck no matter the camber profile past the mid-point (center rocker with out without camber zones, camber, whatever), tail shape (or chopped tail), amount of taper, etc.

Float starts from the nose of the board.

Float


----------



## F1EA

SGboarder said:


> That is not quite right. The single best way to increase float is by having long drawn out nose rocker. Make the nose nice and wide as well and you have a pow capable deck no matter the camber profile past the mid-point (center rocker with out without camber zones, camber, whatever), tail shape (or chopped tail), amount of taper, etc.
> 
> Float starts from the nose of the board.
> 
> Float


Long drawn out nose rocker and a wide nose = adding surface area.

This is what most pow boards are. Mellow nose rocker, lots of surface area then whatever to the back. 

The Archetype is that. Wide nose with mellow rocker, then a swallow, setback and tons of camber. See the profile pic above.


----------



## timmytard

SGboarder said:


> That is not quite right. The single best way to increase float is by having long drawn out nose rocker. Make the nose nice and wide as well and you have a pow capable deck no matter the camber profile past the mid-point (center rocker with out without camber zones, camber, whatever), tail shape (or chopped tail), amount of taper, etc.
> 
> Float starts from the nose of the board.
> 
> Float



No, I don't think that's quite right either?:nerd:

It's full rocker.
Full rocker is the single best way.

That's why rubber ducky's are round, or full rocker, on the bottom.

Rubber ducky's don't have taper, or chopped tails, or fat noses.

Because they are full rocker.
Here's some rad dude, rippin' it up at BaldFace lodge, on a full rocker Birdman 160

Taper, a fat nose or a chopped tail ain't gonna shoot him out the whole he just made.

But full rocker will shoot him out of that hole, just like a rubber ducky bounces out the water when you throw him in.

https://youtu.be/cgfqUhSM-kQ


TT


----------



## F1EA

timmytard said:


> No, I don't think that's quite right either?:nerd:
> 
> It's full rocker.
> Full rocker is the single best way.
> 
> That's why rubber ducky's are round, or full rocker, on the bottom.
> 
> Rubber ducky's don't have taper, or chopped tails, or fat noses.
> 
> Because they are full rocker.
> Here's some tad dude, rippin' it up at BaldFace lodge, on a full rocker Birdman 160
> 
> Taper, a fat nose or a chopped tail ain't gonna shoot him out the whole he just made.
> 
> But full rocker will shoot him out of that hole, just like a rubber ducky bounces out the water when you throw him in.
> 
> https://youtu.be/cgfqUhSM-kQ
> 
> 
> TT


Except... ducks dont swim downhill.

And half their body is underwater when they swim. Rubber duckies are flat on the bottom though..... their little rubber bodies float completely.


----------



## SGboarder

F1EA said:


> Long drawn out nose rocker and a wide nose = adding surface area.
> 
> This is what most pow boards are. Mellow nose rocker, lots of surface area then whatever to the back.


Other than the short Fish-style sticks that give most of that surface area back by chopping of the tail...


----------



## SGboarder

timmytard said:


> No, I don't think that's quite right either?:nerd:
> 
> It's full rocker.
> Full rocker is the single best way.
> 
> That's why rubber ducky's are round, or full rocker, on the bottom.
> 
> Rubber ducky's don't have taper, or chopped tails, or fat noses.
> 
> Because they are full rocker.
> Here's some tad dude, rippin' it up at BaldFace lodge, on a full rocker Birdman 160
> 
> Taper, a fat nose or a chopped tail ain't gonna shoot him out the whole he just made.
> 
> But full rocker will shoot him out of that hole, just like a rubber ducky bounces out the water when you throw him in.
> 
> https://youtu.be/cgfqUhSM-kQ
> 
> 
> TT


Dude, the Birdman is all about the massive nose. The center rocker does fuck all in powder.

If what you say were true there would be morefull rocker powder boards. And I consider many rocker-to--flat boards to be effectively full rocker...


----------



## timmytard

SGboarder said:


> Dude, the Birdman is all about the massive nose. The center rocker does fuck all in powder.
> 
> If what you say were true there would be morefull rocker powder boards. And I consider many rocker-to--flat boards to be effectively full rocker...


oh, what I'm saying is the truth.

Board companies just don't all make full rocker pow decks cause 99% of snowboarders have to ride something other than the powder, just to get to the powder.


Kk, snow is water.
What shape is that boat?
Is it the chopped tail?
Or fat nose, that's making it float?

https://youtu.be/xniW3_afO-0


TT


----------



## F1EA

SGboarder said:


> Other than the short Fish-style sticks that give most of that surface area back by chopping of the tail...


Yeah. There's definitely a design element going on... board designers don't just add float infinitely and for no reason. There's other stuff to consider which depend on what you're specifically looking for.

So..... that's where stuff like taper, camber profile, setback, swallow etc come in.


----------



## SGboarder

timmytard said:


> oh, what I'm saying is the truth.
> 
> Board companies just don't all make full rocker pow decks cause 99% of snowboarders have to ride something other than the powder, just to get to the powder.
> 
> 
> Kk, snow is water.
> What shape is that boat?
> Is it the chopped tail?
> Or fat nose, that's making it float?
> 
> https://youtu.be/xniW3_afO-0
> 
> 
> TT


That is directly contradicted by the fact that there are *lots* of full rocker boards for all kinds of non-powder riding, but *quite few* full rocker powder boards. Full rocker boards are better at getting to the powder than actually in powder.

What are you smoking today!?!?!?


----------



## timmytard

SGboarder said:


> That is directly contradicted by the fact that there are *lots* of full rocker boards for all kinds of non-powder riding, but *quite few* full rocker powder boards. Full rocker boards are better at getting to the powder than actually in powder.
> 
> What are you smoking today!?!?!?


Same thing I have every morning for breakfast.
Ganja


TT


----------



## jjj604

@F1EA - full rocker in pow... the closest ones that i looked at that would fit that bill are the arbor cosa nostra which is the rocker'd out version of the shreddy kreuger and the bataleon cameltoe though that one does have an elongated contact point down the middle of the board but i consider it more or less full rocker with a chopped tail (and a massive spooned nose)

@timmytard - i think 3bt is a better example for the boat analogy. that birdman 160 has float for days aside from the rocker. iirc it's setback over 3" and still has a little bit of taper to help. that thing was never going to sink lol (i wanted the birdman swallow but my growing years are sadly over... i'd never be able to turn it)

i rode a full rocker for years and that board was my do-everything stick on slush and pow days... had an absolute blast and it would keep me afloat despite having minimal to no taper. having said that, i wouldn't go back to it now. having camber/flat under my bindings is something i don't ever see myself deviating from considering the amount of crud we usually have to ride through to get to the spots. that, and the lack of pop if i wanted to load up the tips for anything.

full rocker might be great for some people but my take on it is that pow sticks are aimed at the more advanced riders who aren't as bothered by the downsides of camber, hence why they build the majority of those decks with some camber zones. going at speed on my full rocker was probably the second worst thing next to riding ice; would much rather have camber and work marginally harder on the float and have the extra stability when going fast but then again, that's just for my style


----------



## F1EA

jjj604 said:


> @F1EA - full rocker in pow... the closest ones that i looked at that would fit that bill are the arbor cosa nostra which is the rocker'd out version of the shreddy kreuger and the bataleon cameltoe though that one does have an elongated contact point down the middle of the board but i consider it more or less full rocker with a chopped tail (and a massive spooned nose)
> 
> @timmytard - i think 3bt is a better example for the boat analogy. that birdman 160 has float for days aside from the rocker. iirc it's setback over 3" and still has a little bit of taper to help. that thing was never going to sink lol (i wanted the birdman swallow but my growing years are sadly over... i'd never be able to turn it)
> 
> i rode a full rocker for years and that board was my do-everything stick on slush and pow days... had an absolute blast and it would keep me afloat despite having minimal to no taper. having said that, i wouldn't go back to it now. having camber/flat under my bindings is something i don't ever see myself deviating from considering the amount of crud we usually have to ride through to get to the spots. that, and the lack of pop if i wanted to load up the tips for anything.
> 
> full rocker might be great for some people but my take on it is that pow sticks are aimed at the more advanced riders who aren't as bothered by the downsides of camber, hence why they build the majority of those decks with some camber zones. going at speed on my full rocker was probably the second worst thing next to riding ice; would much rather have camber and work marginally harder on the float and have the extra stability when going fast but then again, that's just for my style


Finally!
Somebody found a true full rocker with a swallow. Totally forgot about Arbor as they are the ones doing the majority of full rocker powder boards...

But yeah. That's 3 then so far: Shreddy Krueger, Storm Chaser and Cosa Nostra.

Storm Chaser is a kind of "novelty" board, but the Arbors are legit full rocker swallow tail powder boards.

I agree with you. I think most designers don't go with full rocker because a) it doesn't ADD float and b) it doesn't really enhance the board's performance other than making it a bit more catch-free.

Whatever lift you can get at the nose from the full rocker, you can get for example with a good rockered nose only board, a swallow tail, setback, etc while letting you have the benefits of camber or flat under feet. 

If I was buying a Japan powder-only board, I'd look at rocker nose, then flat and swallow tail...... the new Fish, the Koruas, Lifer etc

For a more do-everything pow board.... same but with camber.

Then, it's more a matter of whether you prefer wide/short or normal or longer lengths and regular widths etc.


----------



## Alonzo

The only full rocker snowboards with full-on, true swallowtails I've ever seen are the Spring Break Nighthawk and the Custom Birdman swallows Lib made for Salty Peaks.


----------



## F1EA

Alonzo said:


> The only full rocker snowboards with full-on, true swallowtails I've ever seen are the Spring Break Nighthawk and the Custom Birdman swallows Lib made for Salty Peaks.


Yeah these custom or funky shape stuff are similar to reverse sidecut and no-edges stuff, more novelty boards. But PRODUCTION boards like this are very rare... 

Arbor does full rocker on almost everything, so it's only logical they'd do full rocker powder boards too.


----------



## jjj604

hello wallet, meet your doom:

Moss Snowstick ? 2016 | 2017
GENTEMSTICK | PRODUCTS

there's a few others that i came across but i can't remember the names now. i love that moss even has a 126 swallow for kids


----------



## F1EA

jjj604 said:


> hello wallet, meet your doom:
> 
> Moss Snowstick ? 2016 | 2017
> GENTEMSTICK | PRODUCTS
> 
> there's a few others that i came across but i can't remember the names now. i love that moss even has a 126 swallow for kids


hahaha yep don't look there if you wanna save for a house 

Also.... those aren't full rocker. Not sure what's the profile on all the Moss swallows, but the Gemtem are camber.

EDIT: Oh... Moss are camber too.


----------



## jjj604

that was a bit of a thread hijack  yep, i would say almost all of them primarily cambered with early rise noses


----------



## Mig Fullbag

F1EA said:


> but the Gemtem are camber.


Not all of them. A whole bunch have rockered tips to flat camber.


----------



## F1EA

Mig Fullbag said:


> Not all of them. A whole bunch have rockered tips to flat camber.


Yeah all the swallow tails are camber.
Although some are just like 1 or 2mm camber..... so you could call that ~flat.

A few of the non-swallow tails are 0 camber.

None are full rocker (or rocker underfeet).


----------



## timmytard

Well, I had a blast riding the Echelon Rounds the last couple weeks at Whistler.

It doesn't have a swallow tail, not taper, not even sure if it has setback?

I even went in the park, wasn't planning on it with only a handful of days this year.

Definitely didn't have my sea legs yet.

But as soon as I hopped on that board, I wanted in there.
It's full rocker.

But it's also got a kinda tbt thing going on.

On paper, I think tbt would rock.
Makes sense in my mind, having a round-ish hull.
But in reality, I hated it.
It didn't ride how I and I bet most other people envisioned it.

Echelons take on it, while not standing out on paper, as a better idea.
Absolutely crushes it.

TBT's angle/bevel is at the contact points.
That's what makes it fucked up.

Echelons is in the center & that's where it's the deepest.
It's flat at the contact points.
That's what makes it mint.

Hmm, I think I might buy another Echelon and put a swallow tail in it just for fun haha.

Yeah I think I'm gonna do that.
I know where a brand new one is for $80 bucks.

Sweet can't wait to try it.
Mmm, the ganja is good today haha.


TT


----------



## F1EA

Looks better with bindings









Even better with snow?


----------



## ckang008

Picked up an Archetype 162 in March. Haven't tried in powder yet but rode it on slush snow with now IPO bindings. The board is damn fast and I ride NS Raptor 164 and Elan Vertigo 162 usually. Compare to NS Summit 169 rocker, the Archetype can handle groomer runs much better. It could end up being the only board I being to Hokkaido going forward for Niseko resorts and back country stuff if it rides powder as well as the Summit. 

Now I am deciding whether to keep the IPO on this board or use my Uninc est bindings on the Archetype ?


----------



## F1EA

ckang008 said:


> Picked up an Archetype 162 in March. Haven't tried in powder yet but rode it on slush snow with now IPO bindings. The board is damn fast and I ride NS Raptor 164 and Elan Vertigo 162 usually. Compare to NS Summit 169 rocker, the Archetype can handle groomer runs much better. It could end up being the only board I being to Hokkaido going forward for Niseko resorts and back country stuff if it rides powder as well as the Summit.
> 
> Now I am deciding whether to keep the IPO on this board or use my Uninc est bindings on the Archetype ?


I would put something with more power. The cool thing about est is that it also has the hinge so you're able to get lots of pop as well. 

I'll try out a few bindings, see which feel better... The Genesis X est are likely pretty dope on it; so that's the 1st one. I may get Cartel est or Ride el Hefe..... and try it with some of my other bindings. we'll see.


----------



## CauseNAffect

Looks fire with bindings, the nose looks nonexistent with that angle tho ahah. 

What's your experience been with the channel / est bindings compare to 4screw. I'm reallyyy hoping these don't come loose a bunch, my union T rice bindings I have to tighten everytime I go out (consistently loosening).


----------



## F1EA

CauseNAffect said:


> Looks fire with bindings, the nose looks nonexistent with that angle tho ahah.
> 
> What's your experience been with the channel / est bindings compare to 4screw. I'm reallyyy hoping these don't come loose a bunch, my union T rice bindings I have to tighten everytime I go out (consistently loosening).


EST bindings are great. No issues whatsoever because they are generally pretty damp, plastic and come with the Burton screws which have a little nylon strip... never had an issue with those.

Reflex are good too, but I find est more responsive and a lot better for generating pop because of the hinge.

If you want to use any bindings on channel, definitely get the Burton hardware (the screws that have a little nylon strip). You can buy for like $4 or get them for free at a dealer or shop etc. 

I had my Flux come loose the 1st time but I switched the hardware to Burton and never had issues again. You could also put clear nail polish on the tip of the screws if you can't find the Burton ones.

No issues with Now either... as they have a little rubber pad on the base disc and are generally pretty damp. Now's were always fine even with their own screws. 

Oh and be sure to use the correct Phillips head and tighten really well. Even on 2x4 boards.

Get Burton hardware even for your Unions on normal boards. I did that with my Ride Capo a few yrs ago. Would come loose because of the metal disc. Put burton screws and no more loosening...


----------



## w4rtortle

Has anyone tried the new freestyle cambers that endeavor is using ie on the 2018 Live/high 5? I'm wondering how different it is from last year?

That archetype looks amazing, they have some around me but they dont have the big tail cut out, odd.


----------



## F1EA

w4rtortle said:


> Has anyone tried the new freestyle cambers that endeavor is using ie on the 2018 Live/high 5? I'm wondering how different it is from last year?
> 
> That archetype looks amazing, they have some around me but they dont have the big tail cut out, odd.


This was on their instagram a couple days ago:

The 2017/18 collection. Available for purchase now in Australia @rhythmsnowsports and New Zealand @Hyperride. Website dropping 07.01.2017. | #AlwaysEndeavor | #digmyquiver | #allblackeverything 

So check those stores. You could probably ask them directly about the cambers. I haven't seen much detail but their profiles and board choices are ussually pretty good. So it's more a matter of choosing the one board with the flex and profile you like.

Also, if it doesn't have the tail cut out then it's probably one of the others and not the Archetype: Maverick or the other one. The 3 freeride boards have the black top sheet so they'll look a bit the same.


----------



## w4rtortle

Thanks for the IG link, they have some awesome photos on there!

I sent them an email so I'll see what they come back with. Looks like the park boards have rocker tips and camber under foot now, pretty interesting.


----------



## F1EA

w4rtortle said:


> Thanks for the IG link, they have some awesome photos on there!
> 
> I sent them an email so I'll see what they come back with. Looks like the park boards have rocker tips and camber under foot now, pretty interesting.


Yeah best is to just contact them directly... should answer quickly.
They have awesome photos. One of the co-owner/founders is a top pro photographer.... works with Transworld and many of the big name films, etc. So I'm guessing the dope pics are his hehehe

Check the new catalog here: Endeavor - zuzupopo / Catalogues - zuzupopo

Looks like Live and High 5 are both full camber. Live used to be Rocker/Camber/Rocker, High 5 I think was camber and 3D raised contacts. But now they are both full camber.

Now a similar board would be the BOD (mid flex) or Clout (a bit stiffer) which are both camber to 3D raised contacts.

The Archetype is not that stiff. Not a noodle, but I played with it on the carpet and it flexes pretty nicely (I do have stiff bindings and boots), so it's definitely no CustomX or stiff plank type board....


----------



## N-Y

new to snowboarding.... last year was my first year... I got my outfit and accessories.. now I just need my equipment(Board, boot, binding).... Im going with either Burton or Endeavour because of channel system... I plan to get new step on boot/binding... now just need board... looking to ride twin, I live in Ottawa(east Canada).... which board would u guys suggest? 

for endeavor I was thinking of guerrilla or live
Burton, I'm guessing process Flying V or custom Flying V?


----------



## F1EA

N-Y said:


> new to snowboarding.... last year was my first year... I got my outfit and accessories.. now I just need my equipment(Board, boot, binding).... Im going with either Burton or Endeavour because of channel system... I plan to get new step on boot/binding... now just need board... looking to ride twin, I live in Ottawa(east Canada).... which board would u guys suggest?
> 
> for endeavor I was thinking of guerrilla or live
> Burton, I'm guessing process Flying V or custom Flying V?


For the East forget about Flying V.

Custom camber would be a much better option; or the 2018 Live which will be full camber - it was rocker/camber/rocker up to 2017, which would also be decent on east conditions I think (much better than Flying V at least).


----------



## Justin

N-Y said:


> new to snowboarding.... last year was my first year... I got my outfit and accessories.. now I just need my equipment(Board, boot, binding).... Im going with either Burton or Endeavour because of channel system... I plan to get new step on boot/binding... now just need board... looking to ride twin, I live in Ottawa(east Canada).... which board would u guys suggest?
> 
> for endeavor I was thinking of guerrilla or live
> Burton, I'm guessing process Flying V or custom Flying V?


Guerrilla isn't the board for the east either. Hard rocker just outside the insert pack. It does have a tight side cut which might be fun out there but seems more like a pow twin to me.


----------



## jstar

N-Y said:


> new to snowboarding.... last year was my first year... I got my outfit and accessories.. now I just need my equipment(Board, boot, binding).... Im going with either Burton or Endeavour because of channel system... I plan to get new step on boot/binding... now just need board... looking to ride twin, I live in Ottawa(east Canada).... which board would u guys suggest?
> 
> for endeavor I was thinking of guerrilla or live
> Burton, I'm guessing process Flying V or custom Flying V?



I rode the custom FV and the process off axis (both 2016) for a bit last year, both not the best in icy conditions. Out west ice is not that big of a concern, but I got rid of them anyways cause they didn't feel aggressive enough for me.

If going burton, the process camber might work. It has some tech that makes it less catchy (good for if you're just getting into snowboarding), but is still camber so should have better edge hold.


----------



## zc1

Justin said:


> ...seems more like a pow twin to me.


Bingo. Endeavor all-terrain in a nutshell.


----------



## timmytard

N-Y said:


> new to snowboarding.... last year was my first year... I got my outfit and accessories.. now I just need my equipment(Board, boot, binding).... Im going with either Burton or Endeavour because of channel system... I plan to get new step on boot/binding... now just need board... looking to ride twin, I live in Ottawa(east Canada).... which board would u guys suggest?
> 
> for endeavor I was thinking of guerrilla or live
> Burton, I'm guessing process Flying V or custom Flying V?


An even better idea.

Do you have seasons pass?
If you want to actually get in a solid amount of days in, you need a pass.
Doesn't matter where, as long as you have one somewhere.

Sure that binding/boot combo (might be good)
But there's lots of other combos out there that are just as good if not better.
For way cheaper.

You're looking at close to a grand in gear right there.

Spend half of that & get a seasons pass.

At the end of the season when you're ten times better.
You'll see why Utes's a way better idea.

Fuck, I'll even sell you everything you need, so you can get that pass.

I got brand new sweet boards, that are half as much as you're gonna pay.

It's about the riding, not the gear.


TT


----------



## N-Y

timmytard said:


> An even better idea.
> 
> Do you have seasons pass?
> If you want to actually get in a solid amount of days in, you need a pass.
> Doesn't matter where, as long as you have one somewhere.
> 
> Sure that binding/boot combo (might be good)
> But there's lots of other combos out there that are just as good if not better.
> For way cheaper.
> 
> You're looking at close to a grand in gear right there.
> 
> Spend half of that & get a seasons pass.
> 
> At the end of the season when you're ten times better.
> You'll see why Utes's a way better idea.
> 
> Fuck, I'll even sell you everything you need, so you can get that pass.
> 
> I got brand new sweet boards, that are half as much as you're gonna pay.
> 
> It's about the riding, not the gear.
> 
> 
> TT


I plan to get a pass, not sure to what hill yet in the region... I get what your saying about the gear and I agree but I don't mind also spending a bit and get something ill be happy with and be able to grow with.


----------



## N-Y

F1EA said:


> For the East forget about Flying V.
> 
> Custom camber would be a much better option; or the 2018 Live which will be full camber - it was rocker/camber/rocker up to 2017, which would also be decent on east conditions I think (much better than Flying V at least).


so 2018 Live from endeavor is the way to go?


----------



## N-Y

jstar said:


> I rode the custom FV and the process off axis (both 2016) for a bit last year, both not the best in icy conditions. Out west ice is not that big of a concern, but I got rid of them anyways cause they didn't feel aggressive enough for me.
> 
> If going burton, the process camber might work. It has some tech that makes it less catchy (good for if you're just getting into snowboarding), but is still camber so should have better edge hold.


thoughts on endeavor ?


----------



## timmytard

N-Y said:


> I plan to get a pass, not sure to what hill yet in the region... I get what your saying about the gear and I agree but I don't mind also spending a bit and get something ill be happy with and be able to grow with.


But what you don't get is, you CA still have all that gear for way cheaper if you didn't buy it new from a store.

Craigslist is where it's at


TT


----------



## N-Y

timmytard said:


> But what you don't get is, you CA still have all that gear for way cheaper if you didn't buy it new from a store.
> 
> Craigslist is where it's at
> 
> 
> TT


ill take a look at craigslist


----------



## F1EA

N-Y said:


> so 2018 Live from endeavor is the way to go?


If you're looking for something with channel, mid flex, and full camber... yep.


----------



## jstar

N-Y said:


> thoughts on endeavor ?




I have not ridden any endeavors...yet. This might be the year to grab one though, really interested in the new base profile/board pairings.

You could just wait for the angry reviews to come out, pretty sure he reviewed a bunch of the new 2018 endeavors. That's what I'm doing, the reviews are generally spot on. Pretty much why I decided to pick up the mercury and branch manager last year... no regrets at all!


----------



## w4rtortle

My 2017 Live was awesome, good in powder as well as everywhere else. I rode it on a few 30cm + days and it was holding up fine with a bit of work.

The new ones are pure camber from what I've seen, I would really like to try one I think it could be really good.


----------



## F1EA

w4rtortle said:


> My 2017 Live was awesome, good in powder as well as everywhere else. I rode it on a few 30cm + days and it was holding up fine with a bit of work.
> 
> The new ones are pure camber from what I've seen, I would really like to try one I think it could be really good.


Yeah the previous Live was more pow/playful as it had rocker tips. New ones are more precise/hardpack friendly as they are full camber. 

My friend has a 2017 Live and BOD and used them and loved em all last season (which was a deeeeeep season out here), plus including like 5 BC interior trips which was also deep. I have a 2014 Live and it's great too, I can ride it anytime, a little stiffer than the newer ones.


----------



## w4rtortle

Think the BOD all terrain ones can work as full on powder twins?


----------



## F1EA

w4rtortle said:


> Think the BOD all terrain ones can work as full on powder twins?


I wouldnt say so. The BOD is what Rusty Ockenden rides in all his backcountry flippity jump parts... so it's not bad. But I bet when he's doing more Japan and real deep fluffy pow he rides one of the more directional ones.... probably Maverick.

I'd ride my 159 Live on pow... but switching even to a 159 Landlord, or 158 Archetype is night and day.


----------



## MR.

I've been trying to find a little more information on the Archetype, but there aren't many reviews. For anyone who has one, or has demo'd one from last year, how pronounced are the raised contact points? I'm really interested in trying a powder/carving board with a 3D base, but I'm not sure I want to go as extreme as a Bataleon.


----------



## F1EA

MR. said:


> I've been trying to find a little more information on the Archetype, but there aren't many reviews. For anyone who has one, or has demo'd one from last year, how pronounced are the raised contact points? I'm really interested in trying a powder/carving board with a 3D base, but I'm not sure I want to go as extreme as a Bataleon.


0.
The Archetype is early rise rocker to camber. So no 3D edges/contact points.


----------



## MR.

F1EA said:


> 0.
> The Archetype is early rise rocker to camber. So no 3D edges/contact points.


Do you know if that changed for the 18 Archetype? All of the descriptions of the 17 Archetype on sites like Evo and Backcountry mention raised contact points like on the Clout. The description on Gemstock mention raised contacts on the description of the whole 17 line of Endeavor powder shapes, including the Maverick and Scout, but that seems to have been dropped on the description of the 18 boards.


----------



## F1EA

MR. said:


> Do you know if that changed for the 18 Archetype? All of the descriptions of the 17 Archetype on sites like Evo and Backcountry mention raised contact points like on the Clout. The description on Gemstock mention raised contacts on the description of the whole 17 line of Endeavor powder shapes, including the Maverick and Scout, but that seems to have been dropped on the description of the 18 boards.


No changes to the 2018.

I think it's a mis-communication in the descriptions. See the profile in the camber profile tab here:
https://can.endeavorsnowboards.com/collections/mens/products/1718-archetype-series

Unless they call it "3D" camber.... then the raised contacts mean rocker. The 3 powder series are all hover camber (= rocker/camber/rocker)

Clout = 3D camber:
https://can.endeavorsnowboards.com/collections/mens/products/1718-clout-series


----------



## w4rtortle

Has anyone ridden or have any opinions on the scout? I see they are making them in sintered bases now but the flex is described as soft which I think is generally unusual for powder boards? I found an ex demo one with bindings for a ridiculous price and was thinking of picking it up, either that or getting an archetype.


----------



## robotfood99

PSA: Backcountry has an Archetype in 154 at 30% AND its eligible for 20% additional - $279.97. One left. (Guess who took the second to last!) Maverick is available in all sizes, same 20% extra off at $269.97.

EDIT - The base discount is now 25%... and the 20% extra is a timed event. Don't blame me or ask me to explain why BC does what it does!


----------



## F1EA

w4rtortle said:


> Has anyone ridden or have any opinions on the scout? I see they are making them in sintered bases now but the flex is described as soft which I think is generally unusual for powder boards? I found an ex demo one with bindings for a ridiculous price and was thinking of picking it up, either that or getting an archetype.


EDIT: Just checked.... they are all Sintered base. 

I thought the Scout was extruded base? if it is extruded, then it's definitely worth moving up to the Maverick.
If it's sintered, then it depends on what you like in terms of flex..... 

What they label as Soft is not noodle. Think of it more of a freestyle flex.... kind of like Salomon Villain, Ride Machete. It's not a stiff charging flex, but you can certainly ride powder and throw in some freestyle with it.



robotfood99 said:


> PSA: Backcountry has an Archetype in 154 at 30% AND its eligible for 20% additional - $279.97. One left. (Guess who took the second to last!) Maverick is available in all sizes, same 20% extra off at $269.97.
> 
> EDIT - The base discount is now 25%... and the 20% extra is a timed event. Don't blame me or ask me to explain why BC does what it does!


That's pretty cheap.


----------



## sush1

Going to pick up an archetype for freeride/powder. Genesis, cartel or malavitas? Assuming the stiffer the better? 

I felt the board in the shop and it doesn't seem as stiff as they say on their chart.


----------



## F1EA

sush1 said:


> Going to pick up an archetype for freeride/powder. Genesis, cartel or malavitas? Assuming the stiffer the better?
> 
> I felt the board in the shop and it doesn't seem as stiff as they say on their chart.


Yep. Not too stiff. Either of those 3 will work fine. Genesis probably the better option.

Personally, I'm putting Diodes or Genesis X. 
But will also try Genesis, Flux SF and Now Pilots on it just for the love of Science. Pretty sure any one will be fine...


----------



## SGboarder

sush1 said:


> Going to pick up an archetype for freeride/powder. Genesis, cartel or malavitas? Assuming the stiffer the better?


All will work great with no discernible performance difference. Just a questions of preference/comfort/aesthetics.


----------



## Phedder

Local shop in Banff has 154 and 158 Archetypes for $420CAD/$330USD and they ship to the US. Good score if anyone's looking!

They've also got a bunch of others on clearance still, 161 B.O.D for $249 CAD and Niche Theme 155 for $325 CAD. 

Good boards for Peanuts for the Americans.

http://www.rudeboys.com/endeavor-endeavor-archtype-seires-w17.html


----------



## jjj604

Phedder said:


> Local shop in Banff has 154 and 158 Archetypes for $420CAD/$330USD and they ship to the US. Good score if anyone's looking!
> 
> They've also got a bunch of others on clearance still, 161 B.O.D for $249 CAD and Niche Theme 155 for $325 CAD.
> 
> Good boards for Peanuts for the Americans.
> 
> ENDEAVOR ARCHTYPE SEIRES - RUDEBOYS


jesus christ... i'm going to be $420 poorer after one more drink tonight. my quiver is gonna look identical to emilio's pretty soon:grin:

if you ever come out west, i got a beer with your name on it


----------



## sush1

Got my genesis' on the board. So pumped to take this over to Japan!

https://imgur.com/a/ZBt0t

Ended up with 2 new boards this year... It's been expensive...


----------



## jjj604

sush1 said:


> Got my genesis' on the board. So pumped to take this over to Japan!
> 
> https://imgur.com/a/ZBt0t
> 
> Ended up with 2 new boards this year... It's been expensive...


lookin cleeeean:thumbsup: where are you headed to in japow-land?


----------



## F1EA

jjj604 said:


> jesus christ... i'm going to be $420 poorer after one more drink tonight. my quiver is gonna look identical to emilio's pretty soon:grin:
> 
> if you ever come out west, i got a beer with your name on it


hahaha 
So...154 or 158?

That one ^ with white Gens looks sweet :snowplow:


----------



## jjj604

F1EA said:


> hahaha
> So...154 or 158?
> 
> That one ^ with white Gens looks sweet :snowplow:


i was eyeing the 158 cause i've been under the impression that full swallows ride smaller than their size but at 145lbs, the specs for the 154 seems better. i dunno... what do you think i should do? and what size did you get?

current quiver is:
49 carve air
53 villain
56 fish
and then a 50 camrock + 56 full reverse that i'm not sure what i'm gonna be doing with

i kinda wish the fish was smaller then i could justify the bigger archetype


----------



## F1EA

jjj604 said:


> i was eyeing the 158 cause i've been under the impression that full swallows ride smaller than their size but at 145lbs, the specs for the 154 seems better. i dunno... what do you think i should do? and what size did you get?
> 
> current quiver is:
> 49 carve air
> 53 villain
> 56 fish
> and then a 50 camrock + 56 full reverse that i'm not sure what i'm gonna be doing with
> 
> i kinda wish the fish was smaller then i could justify the bigger archetype


I have the 158
For your size, it seems the 154 should be fine. It's kind of Mid-wide so that helps to size it a bit down. 

Would you say the156 Fish is ok for bottomless or would you want something bigger?


----------



## jjj604

F1EA said:


> I have the 158
> For your size, it seems the 154 should be fine. It's kind of Mid-wide so that helps to size it a bit down.
> 
> Would you say the156 Fish is ok for bottomless or would you want something bigger?


...closer to pulling the trigger... right now i feel like i can ride the fish in anything over 20cm and the tighter the trees the better. for reference, i set it back another 1.5-2" in japan and it rode perfect but i put it back to reference to ride around here last season. i wanted the archetype for the extra deep days riding more open terrain (ie: not socked in like 99% of pow days at whis lol) so i feel like the 54 might overlap a lot with what i have. the profile just seems much more aggressive but maybe i'm misreading the specs. noticed that the 54 has a little bit less taper at 26mm too...

is it just me or does the tail on this look smaller than than on the fish at reference? i have yet to see it in person so maybe it's the swallow that's deceiving me. how are you planning to split your days between the fish and atype?

maybe i need to stop overthinking it and just yolo it?!


----------



## GDimac

sush1 said:


> Got my genesis' on the board. So pumped to take this over to Japan!
> 
> https://imgur.com/a/ZBt0t
> 
> Ended up with 2 new boards this year... It's been expensive...


Holeh, those 2 look so beaut. That Halldor pro looks super clean damnnn, great binders to match also. Well in, man.


----------



## jjj604

just so others know, the 154 is showing as out of stock on the site. i just called them and he said something to the effect of the website being wrong as they had two in stock but that they were incorrectly listed; they ended up returning the boards to endeavor


----------



## F1EA

jjj604 said:


> ...closer to pulling the trigger... right now i feel like i can ride the fish in anything over 20cm and the tighter the trees the better. for reference, i set it back another 1.5-2" in japan and it rode perfect but i put it back to reference to ride around here last season. i wanted the archetype for the extra deep days riding more open terrain (ie: not socked in like 99% of pow days at whis lol) so i feel like the 54 might overlap a lot with what i have. the profile just seems much more aggressive but maybe i'm misreading the specs. noticed that the 54 has a little bit less taper at 26mm too...
> 
> is it just me or does the tail on this look smaller than than on the fish at reference? i have yet to see it in person so maybe it's the swallow that's deceiving me. how are you planning to split your days between the fish and atype?
> 
> maybe i need to stop overthinking it and just yolo it?!


Yeah the 154 will overlap a lot with the 156 Fish. Just more aggressive and the tail will let you play out a bit more.

The 158 will feel a lot bigger than you're used to, so maybe for the sunny pow days for bigger stuff than you would do with the 156.

In my case, the 161 Fish is the bigger one, but still not big mtn so mostly for deep days and dry pow even if it's cloudy, but I try to avoid the chopped up days. If socked (as usual) and not crazy deep I normally do the 159 Landlord. I actually rode the LL about 90% last season, including pow and groomer days. Groomer days were just a few really. 

So the 158 Archetype I'm treating just as a smaller Fish with a bit of the Landlord profile, so the ride will be different. Pretty neat. The thing with the Fish is that when you do ride it on good deep dry pow days it is like nothing else..... so even if you have other similar boards... They're not the same. And even if you only ride it 2x a season, those days are worth it.


----------



## jjj604

F1EA said:


> Yeah the 154 will overlap a lot with the 156 Fish. Just more aggressive and the tail will let you play out a bit more.
> 
> The 158 will feel a lot bigger than you're used to, so maybe for the sunny pow days for bigger stuff than you would do with the 156.
> 
> In my case, the 161 Fish is the bigger one, but still not big mtn so mostly for deep days and dry pow even if it's cloudy, but I try to avoid the chopped up days. If socked (as usual) and not crazy deep I normally do the 159 Landlord. I actually rode the LL about 90% last season, including pow and groomer days. Groomer days were just a few really.
> 
> So the 158 Archetype I'm treating just as a smaller Fish with a bit of the Landlord profile, so the ride will be different. Pretty neat. The thing with the Fish is that when you do ride it on good deep dry pow days it is like nothing else..... so even if you have other similar boards... They're not the same. And even if you only ride it 2x a season, those days are worth it.


bah wasn't meant to be  i'll have to drool over yours this season  i came to the decision last night that i was going to get the 154, sell the fish and then keep my eyes peeled for a deal on a short-wide in the 145 range to fill out the quiver but then the board was mia. well... at least i have $420 to put towards something else now haha

planning to hit opening day at whis?


----------



## F1EA

jjj604 said:


> bah wasn't meant to be  i'll have to drool over yours this season  i came to the decision last night that i was going to get the 154, sell the fish and then keep my eyes peeled for a deal on a short-wide in the 145 range to fill out the quiver but then the board was mia. well... at least i have $420 to put towards something else now haha
> 
> planning to hit opening day at whis?


Ahh no point in getting a 154 to sell the 156 Fish. Ok if you wanted to keep both.

Put the 420 into an interior trip..... will be going ~March.

Opening day yes. Unless they open on a weekday with no time for me to plan the gettaway.


----------



## timmytard

jjj604 said:


> bah wasn't meant to be  i'll have to drool over yours this season  i came to the decision last night that i was going to get the 154, sell the fish and then keep my eyes peeled for a deal on a short-wide in the 145 range to fill out the quiver but then the board was mia. well... at least i have $420 to put towards something else now haha
> 
> planning to hit opening day at whis?


There's a quiver Cannon on Craigslist right now.

Perfect size for you:wink:
183cm
Brand spanking new for $260.

Actually I might grab it for myself haha

TT


----------



## jjj604

F1EA said:


> Ahh no point in getting a 154 to sell the 156 Fish. Ok if you wanted to keep both.
> 
> Put the 420 into an interior trip..... will be going ~March.
> 
> Opening day yes. Unless they open on a weekday with no time for me to plan the gettaway.


they announced nov 23 as opening day but i wouldn't be surprised if the bump it up a week as we get closer. lmk about the interior too.. waaaay overdue for a trip!



timmytard said:


> There's a quiver Cannon on Craigslist right now.
> 
> Perfect size for you:wink:
> 183cm
> Brand spanking new for $260.
> 
> Actually I might grab it for myself haha
> 
> TT



183. 1. 8. 3. that's like the length of my car lol. i'd have to go on a burger diet to prep myself for it. hope you snatched it up... looking forward to a demo!:grin::grin:


----------



## sush1

jjj604 said:


> lookin cleeeean:thumbsup: where are you headed to in japow-land?


Thanks, im super pumped. 

Going north to Rusutsu I think for a while, then back to Hakuba which is where we usually spend most of the time. Never been to hokkaido so should be cool to see the difference.

Trying the archetype on the carpet you can like rock back on the tail and bring up the nose and just stand there with basically no resistance, sort of like a hinge point. Haven't felt anything like that before, should be interesting to see how it goes in the fresh snow. There's some cool videos of a guy riding one in knee deep if you search for endeavorarchetype on instagram.


----------



## MR.

*Archetype*

I pulled the trigger on a 154 Archetype a couple of months ago while they were on sale at BC. I'm right at 160, so it might be a little small, but it was too good a deal to pass up.
My plan was to wait until a good powder day before I set it up, but I got tired of staring at it so I took it to Keystone on Sunday and got a few turns in. The board is a little softer than I thought it would be (much softer than my Koruas), and the split makes the tail even softer. With that said it actually holds an edge, and it carves really well. Because of the extra flex in the tail I found I could adjust my line and steer the board through a carve really easily with my back foot. It's also really nimble from rail to rail so I'm looking forward to getting it in the trees when more terrain opens. 
I initially thought I would only get a few days on the this board this year, but I had so much fun on the groomer that this might be my go-to board all year.


----------



## sush1

MR. said:


> I pulled the trigger on a 154 Archetype a couple of months ago while they were on sale at BC. I'm right at 160, so it might be a little small, but it was too good a deal to pass up.
> My plan was to wait until a good powder day before I set it up, but I got tired of staring at it so I took it to Keystone on Sunday and got a few turns in. The board is a little softer than I thought it would be (much softer than my Koruas), and the split makes the tail even softer. With that said it actually holds an edge, and it carves really well. Because of the extra flex in the tail I found I could adjust my line and steer the board through a carve really easily with my back foot. It's also really nimble from rail to rail so I'm looking forward to getting it in the trees when more terrain opens.
> I initially thought I would only get a few days on the this board this year, but I had so much fun on the groomer that this might be my go-to board all year.


Any thoughts on riding it switch on a groomer and on the pop off the tail? Sounds awesome, thanks for the mini review!


----------



## BurtonAvenger

You can ride it switch if you want, it's not exactly fun.


----------



## MR.

sush1 said:


> Any thoughts on riding it switch on a groomer and on the pop off the tail? Sounds awesome, thanks for the mini review!


I never really thought about riding it switch, so not sure. I'm old so it's my legs that lack the pop, but I thought it was pretty easy to get a little air going over the rollers.


----------



## F1EA

Wow rode the Archetype today. What a killer killer board.

About 12cm fresh but they had just opened the alpine so we scored some good stuff.... Super fun and solid board. Truly amazing. The board rips. I'm going to be riding this board a LOT. Will describe it a bit better later...


----------



## N-Y

F1EA said:


> Wow rode the Archetype today. What a killer killer board.
> 
> About 12cm fresh but they had just opened the alpine so we scored some good stuff.... Super fun and solid board. Truly amazing. The board rips. I'm going to be riding this board a LOT. Will describe it a bit better later...


did you ever ride the maverick? if so, thoughts?


----------



## F1EA

N-Y said:


> did you ever ride the maverick? if so, thoughts?


Nope, havent tried the Maverick, but I also have a Live which has about the same flex...

If I had to guess, the Maverick will be much more freestyle oriented than Archetype. More pop (because of a full tail and the way the carbon stringers run), better switch, more lively and quicker edge to edge (because it's narrower).

The Archetype is VERY precise and stable, definitely a board you can charge with confidence; but also forgiving enough that you never feel you have to fight the camber; and it never feels too stiff. The nose and mid section are firm, but the way the tail flexes lets you pop very nicely and you can make any turn (tight or open turns). It will rail and slash.

So... if you like park, butters, riding switch etc the Maverick would be a better option. If you like bigger mountains, carving and all around ripping, but still want to play around trees, side hits and stuff... Archetype is definitely solid.


----------



## robotfood99

F1EA said:


> The Archetype is VERY precise and stable, definitely a board you can charge with confidence; but also forgiving enough that you never feel you have to fight the camber; and it never feels too stiff. The nose and mid section are firm, but the way the tail flexes lets you pop very nicely and you can make any turn (tight or open turns). It will rail and slash.



Liking the sound of that. I’ll have to take mine out soon. 

Have you by any chance ridden the Burton Branch Manager? Was wondering how the Archetype compares to it.


----------



## F1EA

robotfood99 said:


> Liking the sound of that. I’ll have to take mine out soon.
> 
> Have you by any chance ridden the Burton Branch Manager? Was wondering how the Archetype compares to it.


Yeah I've ridden a 159 BM so can compare with the 158 Atype. 

The 2 boards are quite different. Archetype definitely feels like a bigger board than the BM. More stable, more accessible pop and more planted in carves.

BM is less damp (so it feels snappier and more reactive), quicker edge to edge and you feel the tail a bit better if you want a full tail. Feels like a shorter board for sure. 

But for turns, the Atype kills it the moment you put it on edge. Also it has a much more versatile sidecut.... tight or open turns you got it. BM wants to make only sharp turns and on longer turns you kind of fight the camber/sidecut to force it on a wider turn. The AType has a super versatile sidecut (maybe it's the split tail and sidecut combo that lets you make any radius with flow).

In general... BM is more of a tree board, chill pow and groomer cruiser.
AType is more of a versatile all mtn pow destroyer.

I was going to get a 156 Panhandler, but now I don't think I need one at all. AType takes the PH and adds just a bit more aggressiveness without making it feel like a board for Jeremy Jones. AType is still closer to say a Burton Custom than it is to a Flagship.


----------



## robotfood99

F1EA said:


> Yeah I've ridden a 159 BM so can compare with the 158 Atype.
> 
> 
> 
> The 2 boards are quite different. Archetype definitely feels like a bigger board than the BM. More stable, more accessible pop and more planted in carves.
> 
> 
> 
> BM is less damp (so it feels snappier and more reactive), quicker edge to edge and you feel the tail a bit better if you want a full tail. Feels like a shorter board for sure.
> 
> 
> 
> But for turns, the Atype kills it the moment you put it on edge. Also it has a much more versatile sidecut.... tight or open turns you got it. BM wants to make only sharp turns and on longer turns you kind of fight the camber/sidecut to force it on a wider turn. The AType has a super versatile sidecut (maybe it's the split tail and sidecut combo that lets you make any radius with flow).
> 
> 
> 
> In general... BM is more of a tree board, chill pow and groomer cruiser.
> 
> AType is more of a versatile all mtn pow destroyer.
> 
> 
> 
> I was going to get a 156 Panhandler, but now I don't think I need one at all. AType takes the PH and adds just a bit more aggressiveness without making it feel like a board for Jeremy Jones. AType is still closer to say a Burton Custom than it is to a Flagship.




Good stuff, that was very well described and informative, thanks! I liked the BM exactly for the traits you described, also felt it rode a little short and prefers to make tight turns. Sounds like the Atype is right up my alley afterall. Taking it out asap.


----------



## CauseNAffect

Went to Grand Targhee last week after the dump. Finally got a chance to ride the Atype. This board absolutely slays groomers, it's almost a racing deck. I was fucking flyiiingggg. Powder it's very at home. I'm 5'9" and almost 200 with gear on, and I have to say I wish I got the 162. In powder you really want a longer deck. I set it back all the way to the very back of the channel and still felt I could've gone longer. The camber does grab a bit in pow, to me a rocker feel real gets at the surf style best for pow. In my opinion this was a versatile all mountain slayer tested in deepness to ice to groomers, and shredded it all. You can pretty much do whatever you wish with this thing, and I had a blast on it. Excited to try it more. Not sure if this would be my permanent deep day choice after first impressions. Going to ride it more and come back with some more thoughts.


----------



## F1EA

CauseNAffect said:


> Went to Grand Targhee last week after the dump. Finally got a chance to ride the Atype. This board absolutely slays groomers, it's almost a racing deck. I was fucking flyiiingggg. Powder it's very at home. I'm 5'9" and almost 200 with gear on, and I have to say I wish I got the 162. In powder you really want a longer deck. I set it back all the way to the very back of the channel and still felt I could've gone longer. The camber does grab a bit in pow, to me a rocker feel real gets at the surf style best for pow. In my opinion this was a versatile all mountain slayer tested in deepness to ice to groomers, and shredded it all. You can pretty much do whatever you wish with this thing, and I had a blast on it. Excited to try it more. Not sure if this would be my permanent deep day choice after first impressions. Going to ride it more and come back with some more thoughts.


Yeah I found the same thing. I couldn't believe what a groomer slayer this board is. Like you say, it felt like a race board. But with a playful personality. Yep, flying.

200lbs for sure 162. I'm on the 158 at 165-170lbs and definitely the 161 Fish and 165 Dupraz are better floaters. Kinda obvious. But I didn't get it for the deep deep days. I purposely wanted something between my 161 Fish and 159 Landlord. This board is that and much more. I was truly surprised at the slayerability and fun. Lots of fun.

I don't think the camber bites at all though. I mean, if you're used to rocker then maybe, but the difference is... You'll want that little camber bite when hauling ass on a big steep face 

I actually find my Landlord and Dupraz and Flight Attendant bite a LOT more. The Fish nope. Fish don't bite


----------



## Phedder

Merry Christmas to me! I got our holiday craziness roster finalised and after seeing how many hours I'll hit for the month, this was definitely a sanity purchase. Was hoping to take it out today but delivery got fucked up, probably for the best as it was icy and I was hungover. Won't get to ride it until Wednesday now, but the forecast is showing 20cm overnight so hopefully it will be a much more appropriate maiden voyage! 

Would love to slap some more responsive EST bindings on it but the cartels will do for now. White genesis would look sick, or possibly get some Red malavita high backs, genesis hammock strap and black toe caps. We'll see how the budget pans out


----------



## Triple8Sol

Phedder said:


> Merry Christmas to me! I got our holiday craziness roster finalised and after seeing how many hours I'll hit for the month, this was definitely a sanity purchase. Was hoping to take it out today but delivery got fucked up, probably for the best as it was icy and I was hungover. Won't get to ride it until Wednesday now, but the forecast is showing 20cm overnight so hopefully it will be a much more appropriate maiden voyage!
> 
> Would love to slap some more responsive EST bindings on it but the cartels will do for now. White genesis would look sick, or possibly get some Red malavita high backs, genesis hammock strap and black toe caps. We'll see how the budget pans out


Nice! We just added one to the collective pow quiver, so I'm looking forward to finally trying one out!


----------



## Phedder

...Me too. Delivery got fucked up so it missed my last round of days off, but I'm looking at 20cm overnight before my next day off, so that sure beats icy groomers for a first impression!


----------



## F1EA

Mine's coming out again on Wed.

Bluebird mid-week pow day.

Didn't even call in sick. Called in Pow! >


----------



## ckang008

Great performance board too bad the top sheet gets scratch way too easily compare to never summer or libtech

Got some gashes from placing my ipo bindings on top unmounted while transporting


----------



## F1EA

ckang008 said:


> Great performance board too bad the top sheet gets scratch way too easily compare to never summer or libtech
> 
> Got some gashes from placing my ipo bindings on top unmounted while transporting


Edited for less douchebaggery 

It's probably because it's shiny black.
Like a black car, every single little spec of dust shows.....

Good thing there's stickers


----------



## Phedder

First impressions: I fucking love this board. 

We were forecast a good 15-20cm last night. I awoke with much excitement and anticipation to... 6cm. Shit. If I wasn't wide awake I'd have gone back to sleep and caught the next bus, I'm very glad that didn't happen. My favourite mountain at Sunshine, Goats Eye, was wind loaded. They may have only had 6cm fall but most areas on Goats Eye were around the 15cm mark, not deep but enough to properly feel out this board. I got fresh tracks until around 11am, and then plenty of stashes after that. We had a big cold snap too so the snow was quite slow and sticky which made things interesting, but given that I was still overtaking most people on the flats, so I'd say the base is fast. Will find out better tomorrow once it's all groomed. I'll find out a lot more about the board tomorrow actually, but so far I absolutely love it.

Float - great. D'uh.
Pop - great. Oh how I missed a board with some stiffness and camber. 
Carving - great. Every radius turn it does well, wide open carving or if you shift your weight towards the tail a little and drive that back knee in, it really cranks the swallow tail and tightens up the radius, had so much fun playing with this!
Maneuverability - great - very pleasantly surprised by that. Super smooth edge to edge and easy to whip around. 
Switch - Good. Shockingly so. I spent probably 10% of my time riding it switch, on cat tracks or mellow groomer traverses etc. I kept expecting the tail to hook up, and it never did. So I started doing some switch 180s off the cat tracks into powder, or off rollers. No hook. Then I started doing some switch nose roll 180s, no catch. Then switch nose roll 360s, no catch. This board didn't put me on my ass once, which I was fully expecting it to. I rode the entire ski out back to the base area at the end of the day switch bar like 4-5 side hits. 

Very happy I pulled the trigger on this, and the look on peoples faces as I overtook them on cat tracks or flats riding switch was hilarious > That massive swallow looks bizarre going forward for sure.

Update: Yes, the base is fast and this thing rips groomers too. Enough snap directly behind the binding to get a lot of air, but the split in the tail is soft enough to really flex into for tail drags/manuals (whatever you want to call them) over any rollers or humps. Pretty sure this will become my go to for days I'm riding solo, and of course when there's pow.


----------



## F1EA

Yeah I rode mine yesterday as well.
Was a crazy day though. Lots of fresh snow, but super cold and a lot of weird wind-affected slopes.... had to ride lots of different terrain/conditions, from blower pow to sweet groomers to weird ice crust. Board rips. I was actually looking forward to the groomers...

Rode it with Diodes. Great pair up. I had Genesis X last time and they are a perfect match; but the Diodes kind of overpower my Landlord, so they're staying on the Archetype instead.

Everyone was rolling slow yesterday because of how cold it was. Snow was super sticky.


----------



## timmytard

F1EA said:


> Yeah I rode mine yesterday as well.
> Was a crazy day though. Lots of fresh snow, but super cold and a lot of weird wind-affected slopes.... had to ride lots of different terrain/conditions, from blower pow to sweet groomers to weird ice crust. Board rips. I was actually looking forward to the groomers...
> 
> Rode it with Diodes. Great pair up. I had Genesis X last time and they are a perfect match; but the Diodes kind of overpower my Landlord, so they're staying on the Archetype instead.
> 
> Everyone was rolling slow yesterday because of how cold it was. Snow was super sticky.


Wednesday was not as good as I thought it was gonna be haha.

Monday on the other hand, oh my.


TT


----------



## F1EA

Code:







timmytard said:


> Wednesday was not as good as I thought it was gonna be haha.
> 
> Monday on the other hand, oh my.
> 
> 
> TT


Yeah, it was a weird day. 
Definitely a lot of fresh, but the alpine messed up by with winds. Found great snow in places and then fucked up scraped up faces in others. 

But all in all a good day. Don't get to ride many bluebirds up there....


----------



## F1EA

Phedder said:


> First impressions: I fucking love this board.
> 
> We were forecast a good 15-20cm last night. I awoke with much excitement and anticipation to... 6cm. Shit. If I wasn't wide awake I'd have gone back to sleep and caught the next bus, I'm very glad that didn't happen. My favourite mountain at Sunshine, Goats Eye, was wind loaded. They may have only had 6cm fall but most areas on Goats Eye were around the 15cm mark, not deep but enough to properly feel out this board. I got fresh tracks until around 11am, and then plenty of stashes after that. We had a big cold snap too so the snow was quite slow and sticky which made things interesting, but given that I was still overtaking most people on the flats, so I'd say the base is fast. Will find out better tomorrow once it's all groomed. I'll find out a lot more about the board tomorrow actually, but so far I absolutely love it.
> 
> Float - great. D'uh.
> Pop - great. Oh how I missed a board with some stiffness and camber.
> Carving - great. Every radius turn it does well, wide open carving or if you shift your weight towards the tail a little and drive that back knee in, it really cranks the swallow tail and tightens up the radius, had so much fun playing with this!
> Maneuverability - great - very pleasantly surprised by that. Super smooth edge to edge and easy to whip around.
> Switch - Good. Shockingly so. I spent probably 10% of my time riding it switch, on cat tracks or mellow groomer traverses etc. I kept expecting the tail to hook up, and it never did. So I started doing some switch 180s off the cat tracks into powder, or off rollers. No hook. Then I started doing some switch nose roll 180s, no catch. Then switch nose roll 360s, no catch. This board didn't put me on my ass once, which I was fully expecting it to. I rode the entire ski out back to the base area at the end of the day switch bar like 4-5 side hits.
> 
> Very happy I pulled the trigger on this, and the look on peoples faces as I overtook them on cat tracks or flats riding switch was hilarious > That massive swallow looks bizarre going forward for sure.
> 
> Update: Yes, the base is fast and this thing rips groomers too. Enough snap directly behind the binding to get a lot of air, but the split in the tail is soft enough to really flex into for tail drags/manuals (whatever you want to call them) over any rollers or humps. Pretty sure this will become my go to for days I'm riding solo, and of course when there's pow.


Surprising right?

I was expecting a pow surfer/cruiser...... turns out it's a crazy mix of super killer charger with playful pow slasher thats great at everything without being meh at anything...


----------



## Phedder

F1EA said:


> Surprising right?
> 
> I was expecting a pow surfer/cruiser...... turns out it's a crazy mix of super killer charger with playful pow slasher thats great at everything without being meh at anything...


And ridiculously good value. A little peeved I didn't wait it out for this deal - 30% off Endeavor! Someone snap this up quick, one 162 left at $420. There's 154s and 158s too. Currently talking myself out of the 160W B.O.D. 

https://thinkempire.com/snowboard-shop/snowboards/endeavor-archetype-162-snowboard-wt18.html


----------



## zc1

Phedder said:


> And ridiculously good value. A little peeved I didn't wait it out for this deal - 30% off Endeavor! Someone snap this up quick, one 162 left at $420. There's 154s and 158s too. Currently talking myself out of the 160W B.O.D.
> 
> https://thinkempire.com/snowboard-shop/snowboards/endeavor-archetype-162-snowboard-wt18.html


Want to, but already picked up a High5...not that already having picked up one board has ever stopped me before :grin:


----------



## F1EA

Phedder said:


> And ridiculously good value. A little peeved I didn't wait it out for this deal - 30% off Endeavor! Someone snap this up quick, one 162 left at $420. There's 154s and 158s too. Currently talking myself out of the 160W B.O.D.
> 
> https://thinkempire.com/snowboard-shop/snowboards/endeavor-archetype-162-snowboard-wt18.html


Damn. The BOD and Maverick at $385
And also the Nitro Quivers and Custom Kilroy...

:crazy1:

I better stop looking...


----------



## Phedder

After a few more days groomer bashing, this board grows on me more and more each time. Endeavor, never change this board.

But...If I could build my own custom Charger/Pow board, I'd for sure use this as the chassis and make these changes :grin:

266mm waist (up 3mm)
8.5m Sidecut (down 0.3m)
25mm Taper (down 5mm)
Spooned nose (like Arbors uprise fenders, but not as far into the EE) 
Chop 2cm off the tips of the tail, but keeping the same total length. Essentially pulling the tail contact points, and where the swallow starts from, 2cm further back.

All of those fairly minor tweaks would enhance this board even more for how I ride. Wider waist, tighter sidecut, and less taper would give me a little more width under my back foot to reduce toe and heel drag. Shifting tail contact points and start of the swallow 2cm back provide a bit more EE, and shifting that swallow back is purely so it doesn't shoot as much snow up at me when riding switch. Spooned nose to help potentially bring back some float lost by reducing the taper and shortening the swallow a touch, plus nose butterz. Could actually widen the gap between the swallow by the same amount of width gained through the drop in taper and sidecut. 

Yes, I'm a weirdo and I doubt anyone else has had such thoughts when riding this board hah. I absolutely love it, and I'm shocked by it's versatility. Those changes would just make it even more versatile for me. It's seen a fair few park laps as well, and I'm not afraid to take off or land switch, still yet to punish me there


----------



## t21

After reading all this archetype craziness i might get one myself:grin: I'm planning to split my Charlie Slasher for backcountry and i need a replacement for it,plus i do not have a board with a channel mounting system. I will definitely NOT telling my wife about this!!:surprise:


----------



## F1EA

Phedder said:


> After a few more days groomer bashing, this board grows on me more and more each time. Endeavor, never change this board.
> 
> But...If I could build my own custom Charger/Pow board, I'd for sure use this as the chassis and make these changes :grin:
> 
> 266mm waist (up 3mm)
> 8.5m Sidecut (down 0.3m)
> 25mm Taper (down 5mm)
> Spooned nose (like Arbors uprise fenders, but not as far into the EE)
> Chop 2cm off the tips of the tail, but keeping the same total length. Essentially pulling the tail contact points, and where the swallow starts from, 2cm further back.
> 
> All of those fairly minor tweaks would enhance this board even more for how I ride. Wider waist, tighter sidecut, and less taper would give me a little more width under my back foot to reduce toe and heel drag. Shifting tail contact points and start of the swallow 2cm back provide a bit more EE, and shifting that swallow back is purely so it doesn't shoot as much snow up at me when riding switch. Spooned nose to help potentially bring back some float lost by reducing the taper and shortening the swallow a touch, plus nose butterz. Could actually widen the gap between the swallow by the same amount of width gained through the drop in taper and sidecut.
> 
> Yes, I'm a weirdo and I doubt anyone else has had such thoughts when riding this board hah. I absolutely love it, and I'm shocked by it's versatility. Those changes would just make it even more versatile for me. It's seen a fair few park laps as well, and I'm not afraid to take off or land switch, still yet to punish me there


hahaha those are some pesky little details....

The only thing I would change is: de-blunt the nose.

It used to have a full size nose when it was a sort of special edition, but they've blunted it for the production models. I guess some wank wants to say how they're riding a 158 vs a 160.... but I would totally appreciate the extra little nose, and keep everything else the same. Just a tiny bit more nose. That's it. Or if they're prefer to keep the lengths short, then full nose and chop a bit of the tail.

Have been riding it this weekend at Big White. I only brought this 1 board even though there isn't that much new snow.... only about 8cm for this morning and then like 5cm for tomorrow. But no regertz. Super fun.


----------



## Phedder

F1EA said:


> It used to have a full size nose when it was a sort of special edition, but they've blunted it for the production models. I guess some wank wants to say how they're riding a 158 vs a 160.... but I would totally appreciate the extra little nose


Simple solution here... Buy a 162 hahaha. Good to hear it's tearing up Big White. I'm trying to organise a day trip to Kicking Horse from Banff, can get a Return shuttle + lift ticket for $100, just need days off with friends to line up and a favorable snow forecast!


----------



## F1EA

Phedder said:


> Simple solution here... Buy a 162 hahaha. Good to hear it's tearing up Big White. I'm trying to organise a day trip to Kicking Horse from Banff, can get a Return shuttle + lift ticket for $100, just need days off with friends to line up and a favorable snow forecast!


Hah! but then it'll probably feel too stiff. Or too long edge, etc. As it si.. it's so perfect.

Yeah it's been awesome in BW; it's been snowing (and foggy) all weekend so it's been pretty much all trees. So not like Mach V tearing it up, but ripping the trees for sure.


----------



## Toby

Any chance a size 12.5 - 13 boot could ride the 162 without too much boot out issues? The back foot could be a problem, because of that big taper. 

This board looks soo much fun otherwise! A cambered swallowtailed carving- and powmachine, seems irresistible :grin:


----------



## Phedder

Toby said:


> Any chance a size 12.5 - 13 boot could ride the 162 without too much boot out issues? The back foot could be a problem, because of that big taper.
> 
> This board looks soo much fun otherwise! A cambered swallowtailed carving- and powmachine, seems irresistible :grin:


I wouldn't. Width across the rear reference is 268mm, I'm in a 9.5 and if I'm really pushing it I've wiped out a few times from heel drag, somewhere around the 275mm mark would be ideal for me. Maybe if 2 of us request it they'll make a run with my suggested changes... Dreams are free!


----------



## Toby

Phedder said:


> I wouldn't. Width across the rear reference is 268mm, I'm in a 9.5 and if I'm really pushing it I've wiped out a few times from heel drag, somewhere around the 275mm mark would be ideal for me. Maybe if 2 of us request it they'll make a run with my suggested changes... Dreams are free!


Oh I see - that's over a centimeter smaller than my Explorer, probably a little tight!

Those changes would be rad, maybe a ltd 162W next year?


----------



## F1EA

Yeah, I wouldn't call it wide. More like Mid-wide.

MAYBE you could get away with US12, but 13 is def pushing it. Also because the board is such a good carver, you will be hitting deeper angles..

Check out something like an Alter Ego which comes in wide.


----------



## Jet520

Thinking to get Archetype. I am 150 lbs and 5' 7" with US 8 shoe, should I go 154 or 158?


----------



## robotfood99

Jet520 said:


> Thinking to get Archetype. I am 150 lbs and 5' 7" with US 8 shoe, should I go 154 or 158?




Same weight and boot size as you. I’m happy with my 154 which is Endeavor’s recommended size but 158 would have better float.


----------



## Jet520

robotfood99 said:


> Same weight and boot size as you. I’m happy with my 154 which is Endeavor’s recommended size but 158 would have better float.




Thanks for the reply, that is exactly what I am considering, because I have kazu 151 already, so I am thinking should I get longer board like archetype 158 for deep powder day…


----------



## Toby

Phedder said:


> I wouldn't. Width across the rear reference is 268mm, I'm in a 9.5 and if I'm really pushing it I've wiped out a few times from heel drag, somewhere around the 275mm mark would be ideal for me. Maybe if 2 of us request it they'll make a run with my suggested changes... Dreams are free!


Did actually contact Endeavor about this and got some answers. Apparently they'll be making a 160W Archetype next year, and I'm guessing that it'll be wider than the normal 162. I was also told that they have a few guys at the office with size 13 boots who rides the 162 without any issues, however I'm a bit skeptical. Could be that they're using it for pure pow - and not so much for carving. Anyway quick and great customer support


----------



## Phedder

Toby said:


> Did actually contact Endeavor about this and got some answers. Apparently they'll be making a 160W Archetype next year, and I'm guessing that it'll be wider than the normal 162. I was also told that they have a few guys at the office with size 13 boots who rides the 162 without any issues, however I'm a bit skeptical. Could be that they're using it for pure pow - and not so much for carving. Anyway quick and great customer support


I would be so down for a 160W! Gonna enquire now. Yeah I was told the same about size 13 boots on the 162 hah, definitely just pow I'd say.


----------



## Toby

Would be totally awesome if the 160W is ~1cm wider than the 162 - but I guess that isn't very likely. But as you said:


Phedder said:


> Dreams are free!


----------



## Phedder

Toby said:


> Would be totally awesome if the 160W is ~1cm wider than the 162 - but I guess that isn't very likely.


They just got back to me, 'There is 100% a 160W coming in the Archetype!'

These specs are insane. 
339mm Nose
282mm Waist
309mm Tail 

I don't think it'd be a tree board for me... But dammit I'll probably end up getting one, slapping some Genesis X on it, start using my Ride Insanos again and go double positive angles haha. Sounds like an absolute blast in wide open bowls or groomers >


----------



## F1EA

Phedder said:


> They just got back to me, 'There is 100% a 160W coming in the Archetype!'
> 
> These specs are insane.
> 339mm Nose
> 282mm Waist
> 309mm Tail
> 
> I don't think it'd be a tree board for me... But dammit I'll probably end up getting one, slapping some Genesis X on it, start using my Ride Insanos again and go double positive angles haha. Sounds like an absolute blast in wide open bowls or groomers >


++ ??!
Uh oh he means business


----------



## Phedder

F1EA said:


> ++ ??!
> Uh oh he means business


Probably the only way I'll be able to leverage it properly haha. Kinda hoping they realise most guys needing a board that wide are also like 6'5 230lb+, so keep those dimensions on say a 165W and also make a 160W around the 270 waist mark... More dreams :embarrased1:


----------



## robotfood99

I'm riding mine at +24/+15 for giggles lol. Freaks out the hammerhead bx riders. Can't ride switch, which is a shame because that tail forward is hilarious fun. Might try bigger angles if I can get around to changing out the bindings.


----------



## jae

robotfood99 said:


> I'm riding mine at +24/+15 for giggles lol. Freaks out the hammerhead bx riders. Can't ride switch, which is a shame because that tail forward is hilarious fun. Might try bigger angles if I can get around to changing out the bindings.


lol I was getting lower/faster/tighter than those guys with my 159 mercury with +15/-15.


----------



## F1EA

robotfood99 said:


> I'm riding mine at +24/+15 for giggles lol. Freaks out the hammerhead bx riders. Can't ride switch, which is a shame because that tail forward is hilarious fun. Might try bigger angles if I can get around to changing out the bindings.


Yeah I'm +24 +6 on mine. Only because it's on EST bindings; would be +27 +9 on non-est.

But I use the same stance even on my dir twins....


----------



## Toby

Phedder said:


> They just got back to me, 'There is 100% a 160W coming in the Archetype!'
> 
> These specs are insane.
> 339mm Nose
> 282mm Waist
> 309mm Tail
> 
> I don't think it'd be a tree board for me... But dammit I'll probably end up getting one, slapping some Genesis X on it, start using my Ride Insanos again and go double positive angles haha. Sounds like an absolute blast in wide open bowls or groomers >


Damn, this looks incredible rad! At 200lbs size 13 this could probably work! EST Gen X would be a killer on it for sure. 

Time to start saving money


----------



## MR.

I'm at about +24 and +3 on my 154 with size 9 1/2 boots. No issues with toe or heel drag on carves. I finally got it in some fresh powder on Friday, and the 154 floats me at 160. A 158 might have been a little better out in the open, but the 154 was super fun in the trees (and even some of the mogul runs). I'm loving this thing!


----------



## Wesley Hunt

Would a 154 archetype be too big to be able to rip through trees at 125-130lbs no gear? I have a 148 rockered board which works great until the pow gets a little more than boot deep


----------



## Phedder

Wesley Hunt said:


> Would a 154 archetype be too big to be able to rip through trees at 125-130lbs no gear? I have a 148 rockered board which works great until the pow gets a little more than boot deep


What's your boot size? As long as you're not a 6 or 7, I'd say you'd be fine with some reasonably stiff boots and responsive bindings. The narrower tail and the split make it surprisingly nimble and maneuverable. I prefer it in trees over my Warpig, and that's 162cm vs 154cm. It's easier to torsionally steer at low speeds.


----------



## F1EA

Wesley Hunt said:


> Would a 154 archetype be too big to be able to rip through trees at 125-130lbs no gear? I have a 148 rockered board which works great until the pow gets a little more than boot deep





Phedder said:


> What's your boot size? As long as you're not a 6 or 7, I'd say you'd be fine with some reasonably stiff boots and responsive bindings. The narrower tail and the split make it surprisingly nimble and maneuverable. I prefer it in trees over my Warpig, and that's 162cm vs 154cm. It's easier to torsionally steer at low speeds.


This ^

It is not a super quick turning board (ie it is a little more stable than it is lively), especially compared to a 148 rocker, but definitely playful and maneuverable enough in tight trees. You just have to bend your knees,go with reasonably stiff boots and bindings and you should be fine.


----------



## Wesley Hunt

Phedder said:


> What's your boot size? As long as you're not a 6 or 7, I'd say you'd be fine with some reasonably stiff boots and responsive bindings. The narrower tail and the split make it surprisingly nimble and maneuverable. I prefer it in trees over my Warpig, and that's 162cm vs 154cm. It's easier to torsionally steer at low speeds.


Ah is it too hard to turn with a smaller size boot? I'm size 7 exactly. Pocket sized person! Just not small enough to get the cheaper kids gear ha.


----------



## Phedder

Wesley Hunt said:


> Ah is it too hard to turn with a smaller size boot? I'm size 7 exactly. Pocket sized person! Just not small enough to get the cheaper kids gear ha.


Kinda depends what you're used to turning... I only ride wide boards with a 9.5/9 boot, so the Archetype is actually the narrowest board across the rear inserts that I own. That combined with the split in the tail makes it feel very agile to me. In wide open powder fields I think the 154 would be one of the best boards on the market for you, in tight trees you might find it a little tougher. Could be worth looking at the 153 Maverick instead? It's narrower and a touch softer but should still give you plenty of float with the camber profile and set back.


----------



## F1EA

Wesley Hunt said:


> Ah is it too hard to turn with a smaller size boot? I'm size 7 exactly. Pocket sized person! Just not small enough to get the cheaper kids gear ha.


He wouldn't know, unless he rode it when he was 12 

Anyways.... he's size US9 i think on a 162, and finds it quick enough. That's a reference.


----------



## Wesley Hunt

F1EA said:


> He wouldn't know, unless he rode it when he was 12
> 
> Anyways.... he's size US9 i think on a 162, and finds it quick enough. That's a reference.


I'll have to look for my time machine next time i'm at my parents to send an archetype back a few years. It's probably too short to have much more float over my rocker board with the bindings back (tip/tail: 289.5mm, width: 245mm) but here is the specs for the 150 if anyone is curious, as i couldn't find it on the website:

150cm Archetype
Contact Length - 922mm
Effective Edge - 1063mm
Nose Width - 301mm
Waist Width - 250mm
Tail Width - 275mm
Sidecut Radius - 8000mm
Taper - 26mm
Setback - 2 inches
Rider Weight - 120-170lbs

(although that makes the rider weight higher than the 154 so it must be a typo, or next years new weights lol)


----------



## Phedder

Wesley Hunt said:


> I'll have to look for my time machine next time i'm at my parents to send an archetype back a few years. It's probably too short to have much more float over my rocker board with the bindings back (tip/tail: 289.5mm, width: 245mm) but here is the specs for the 150 if anyone is curious, as i couldn't find it on the website:
> 
> 150cm Archetype
> Contact Length - 922mm
> Effective Edge - 1063mm
> Nose Width - 301mm
> Waist Width - 250mm
> Tail Width - 275mm
> Sidecut Radius - 8000mm
> Taper - 26mm
> Setback - 2 inches
> Rider Weight - 120-170lbs
> 
> (although that makes the rider weight higher than the 154 so it must be a typo, or next years new weights lol)


Assuming your 148 is a twin, the 150 Archetype will still have *significantly* more float. Based off those specs, you've got 11.5mm more width in the nose, 5mm more width in the the waist, and 14.5mm less width in the tail. All of that alone adds up to significantly more surface area in front of the board to generate lift in pow, and significantly less surface area in the tail to allow the tail to drop in the pow. Add in the set back stance, longer length, and split in the tail (further surface area reduction) and yeah, you'll notice a big difference.


----------



## F1EA

Phedder said:


> Assuming your 148 is a twin, the 150 Archetype will still have *significantly* more float. Based off those specs, you've got 11.5mm more width in the nose, 5mm more width in the the waist, and 14.5mm less width in the tail. All of that alone adds up to significantly more surface area in front of the board to generate lift in pow, and significantly less surface area in the tail to allow the tail to drop in the pow. Add in the set back stance, longer length, and split in the tail (further surface area reduction) and yeah, you'll notice a big difference.


What he said ^

The weight is probably a typo. The 150 will be solid. 154 will be fine too, but more for really deep snow and/or bigger steeper bowls where you'll want stability. You can also look at the Maverick. A bit softer and narrower.


----------



## robotfood99

Konnichiwa from Hokkaido! Archetype loves the pow here. What a sweeeet ride.


----------



## sush1

SnowDragon said:


> F1EA said:
> 
> 
> 
> Endeavor is not going full camber all around. I believe they're just going to use different profiles for the different board lines:
> The freestyle boards get RCR
> All mtn/freestyle get full camber
> All mtn get 3D camber
> Then the freeride series stay with RCR.
> 
> Something along those lines....
> 
> 
> 
> Well, the 2017 line up had
> 1. Rocker/flat/rocker
> 2. Rocker/camber/rocker
> 3. 3D rocker/camber/3D rocker
> All 3 above were true twins.
> 
> 4. Powder line of directional, tapered decks, with the Archetype being a swallow tail.
> 
> As mentioned above, I bought the Clout and High5, and demo'd the Archetype. They are all fun, poppy, versatile boards.
> My favourite was the Clout, so I am selling my High5, but I could easily keep that one as well.
Click to expand...

How would you compare the clout and high 5 flex to the archetype? I bought the archetype and love it. Going to try and get an all mountain freestyle endeavor board. I love the archetypes flex so I'm trying to match that.


----------



## Phedder

Finally getting the Archetype out to Lake Louise where I can properly open it up has me more in love with this board than ever. I hit that traverse switch so I could stay higher riding toeside 3 times, tail never got caught up. Handled every drop I could find like a champ, and I broke my all time speed record without even realising at the time, 103km/h and it felt comfortable. I'm sure I could push it faster but I'm not usually a straight liner, I like my turns too much. Last pic isn't me but that landing was chewed up and I was very happy to ride it out smooth.


----------



## robotfood99

Phedder said:


> Finally getting the Archetype out to Lake Louise where I can properly open it up has me more in love with this board than ever. I hit that traverse switch so I could stay higher riding toeside 3 times, tail never got caught up. Handled every drop I could find like a champ, and I broke my all time speed record without even realising at the time, 103km/h and it felt comfortable. I'm sure I could push it faster but I'm not usually a straight liner, I like my turns too much. Last pic isn't me but that landing was chewed up and I was very happy to ride it out smooth.


Nice pics! I just wrapped up my short Hokkaido trip and I did pretty much the opposite - I took it into as much trees as possible and hit as many side hits as I could take. This thing is a beast on side hits. Even when pointed at a pretty sketchy approach that nose soaked it all up and floated me up and over, then the tail snap-launched at will. Jump after jump I'd land into deep fresh pow and oh that sweet feeling of jumping into a pool of cotton balls.... My top speed? 50kmh lol


----------



## ek9max

All this Endeavour talk. I picked up their last 154cm today. This weekend in Banff is supposed to NUKE snow. So it may be perfect timing.


----------



## F1EA

ek9max said:


> All this Endeavour talk. I picked up their last 154cm today. This weekend in Banff is supposed to NUKE snow. So it may be perfect timing.


All this Endeavor talk.... and you still spell it wrong >


----------



## ek9max

F1EA said:


> All this Endeavor talk.... and you still spell it wrong >



Stupid autocorrect.....


----------



## F1EA

ek9max said:


> Stupid autocorrect.....


You know, my phone's autocorrect / auto-word complete thing has now learned my common typos.......


----------



## timmytard

I got to demo it last weekend.

It's pretty good, best board by far i got to demo.

Might have to pick one up, if I find one for dirt cheap:surprise:


TT


----------



## ek9max

Got the Archetype out today for the maiden voyage. I'm 5'8" 155-160lbs on the 154cm. Size 9 boot. 

I LOVE THIS BOARD. It was probably my best "first day on a new board" I've ever had. And I've have A LOT of those first days in my 5 years of riding. 

I was worried about the 257mm waist for my size 9 but it wasn't a problem at all. Yes, I noticed that it was wider and took a little bit to get used to. But whipping the tapered tail out was effortless. 

I was landing some decent sized drops and riding out into bumpy snow and it soaked it all up better than my damp never summer boards that I also love. 

The base was fast as I sped by everybody on teh cat tracks. And on edge it felt like it would grip well and carve nice. It was hero snow today so i'll wait to give my opinion on that. 

Pop was GREAT. I found a couple familiar spots where i'd ollie off a cat track or what not and it felt more pop than my proto type 2 or twenty five. 

All in all a GREAT board. Go buy one.


----------



## Jcb890

Phedder said:


> Probably the only way I'll be able to leverage it properly haha. Kinda hoping they realise most guys needing a board that wide are also like 6'5 230lb+, so keep those dimensions on say a 165W and also make a 160W around the 270 waist mark... More dreams :embarrased1:


I'm going to have to keep my eyes out... I would love if they make a 165W (6'1" 240lbs, size 12/13 boots) and might have to get one if they do. I'm currently using a 169W Jones Flagship as my daily driver. I love it for pretty much everything except in our East Coast trees its like driving a tank.

Great thread guys, thanks for the read.


----------



## Craig64

So keen to grab a 162 Endeavor Archetype. All these positive reviews have really got my juices flowing???:sex:

Looking at one for sale from a shop in NZ.:nerd:


----------



## sush1

You will love it in Japan mate, so sick over there in the trees. Although unfortunately I think I'm selling mine as I can't fit it and my daily and a split in my bag. Might see if I can store it in Japan though. If you want a 158 let me know ?


----------



## Craig64

sush1 said:


> You will love it in Japan mate, so sick over there in the trees. Although unfortunately I think I'm selling mine as I can't fit it and my daily and a split in my bag. Might see if I can store it in Japan though. If you want a 158 let me know ?


I've been looking at this board for days and days now....., it's so damn sic' I was becoming obsessed with it.:crazy7:


Anyway, I did a big cancelled rest day last night at work $$$$$$$$......., so thought hey mate time for a little reward......., So ended up grabbing myself '18 162 Archetype. :yahoo:

Easy come easy go.:wink: 

Can't wait to get it delivered.:nerd:


----------



## Phedder

Craig51 said:


> I've been looking at this board for days and days now....., it's so damn sic' I was becoming obsessed with it.:crazy7:
> 
> 
> Anyway, I did a big cancelled rest day last night at work $$$$$$$$......., so thought hey mate time for a little reward......., So ended up grabbing myself '18 162 Archetype. :yahoo:
> 
> Easy come easy go.:wink:
> 
> Can't wait to get it delivered.:nerd:


As amazing as the board is, aren't you like a size 13 or 14 boot? I honestly think waiting for the 160W version would be a better call. I'm on the 162 in a 9.5 boot and I can boot out on the heelside when I'm really pushing it on soft groomers. It's 26.7cm wide across the rear insert at reference. You've also got the biggest Custom X, 166W, right? At a guess that'd measure around 27.8cm across the rear reference point, pretty big difference. If you only intend on using it in powder then yeah it'll work fine, but even then I'd still say the 160W would be a better call as all that extra width adds up to a lot more surface area than 2cm in length does.


----------



## Craig64

Phedder said:


> As amazing as the board is, aren't you like a size 13 or 14 boot? I honestly think waiting for the 160W version would be a better call. I'm on the 162 in a 9.5 boot and I can boot out on the heelside when I'm really pushing it on soft groomers. It's 26.7cm wide across the rear insert at reference. You've also got the biggest Custom X, 166W, right? At a guess that'd measure around 27.8cm across the rear reference point, pretty big difference. If you only intend on using it in powder then yeah it'll work fine, but even then I'd still say the 160W would be a better call as all that extra width adds up to a lot more surface area than 2cm in length does.


I know what you're saying but with my "handicap" I can't let a little overhang depress me too much.:injured: It limits my board selection down so much if I worry about this. I had no problems on the Burton DT which I believe has a narrower width reference of 266mm. :nerd:

So I had a look and threw some rough mathematics at both a 160W to 162:computer1: with the 160W being around 0.97% bigger in surface area. 10mm in the guts wider in the guts and 9MM wider in both tip and tail extremes....., this would've be probably a better choice. However I got the 162 from Hyperide for a fairly good price $Au480 ($US360) delivered. Couldn't see a 160W available for me in Australia yet.:sad1:


----------



## F1EA

Yeah the 160W (and other wides) are for next season; so for steep discounts, it's gotta be the regular 162 for you (which is already mid-wide). Size 14 is big..... but you're probably used to dealing with hang.

Other than that, sweet board. k:

Being used to Dump Truck, LL etc you will probably want to ride it even further set-back from reference. I set it like 2cm back from reference and I could easily still set it back some more.........


----------



## Craig64

F1EA said:


> Yeah the 160W (and other wides) are for next season; so for steep discounts, it's gotta be the regular 162 for you (which is already mid-wide). Size 14 is big..... but you're probably used to dealing with hang.
> 
> Other than that, sweet board. k:
> 
> Being used to Dump Truck, LL etc you will probably want to ride it even further set-back from reference. I set it like 2cm back from reference and I could easily still set it back some more.........


Yeah, the Archetype has a $Au899 RRP so I couldn't believe the price on this, almost 50% off for last season model. Watching the tracking now it's about to hit the plane from NZ to Australia. :computer1: Should have it maybe Friday or early next week. :dance1:

Definitely will be setting it back. That's all how I want to ride now.:snowboard4:

So how would you compare the DT to the Archetype. :chin: 

I'll be taking both these boards to Japan. I have a feeling they will be sort of close.:chin:


----------



## Phedder

Craig51 said:


> I'll be taking both these boards to Japan. I have a feeling they will be sort of close.:chin:


F1EA can answer much better than I (never rode a DT) but I think a good way to look at them is the DT is a freeride board that can float, the Archetype is a powder board that can freeride.


----------



## F1EA

Craig51 said:


> So how would you compare the DT to the Archetype. :chin:
> 
> I'll be taking both these boards to Japan. I have a feeling they will be sort of close.:chin:


They are sort of close in what you can do with them, more than how they actually feel when you ride them...

I only rode the DT once, but in general the Archetype feels a lot more twin (basically much more tail relative to where your feet are). Archetype is softer, wider and easier to pop. I would say the DT is still a true powder board though; like the Landlord, because the shape makes it super floaty. The Archetype is a powder board that can freeride AND freestyle. Both kill groomers.

DT is quicker edge to edge and damper over uneven terrain; but Archetype adds a freestyle element and begs to pop, butter, slash and still rips at speed. The DT is a bit more of a true speed board but also really quick turning/reactive and agile.


----------



## sush1

F1EA said:


> Archetype adds a freestyle element


Have rode my archetype in the park a fair bit and it's great fun, such a nice flex, I also love it on a slushy blue bird day. Only place I struggle with it is in really chopped up crappy mogully terrain but that would be most boards.

I do wish I got the 162, I get a bit sketchy towards the heels and toes carving compared to my wider board, have never properly booted out completely though. Size 11.5US boots. I think 160w would be perfect for me.

I haven't tried setting it back a little more but I think I could see the benefits so will give it a go when the season starts.

Assuming the store you got it from craig was hyperride, endeavors boards are such a good thing to get on in Aus, so cheap and such good quality, I've had 3.


----------



## Craig64

sush1 said:


> Have rode my archetype in the park a fair bit and it's great fun, such a nice flex, I also love it on a slushy blue bird day. Only place I struggle with it is in really chopped up crappy mogully terrain but that would be most boards.
> 
> I do wish I got the 162, I get a bit sketchy towards the heels and toes carving compared to my wider board, have never properly booted out completely though. Size 11.5US boots. I think 160w would be perfect for me.
> 
> I haven't tried setting it back a little more but I think I could see the benefits so will give it a go when the season starts.
> 
> Assuming the store you got it from craig was hyperride, endeavors boards are such a good thing to get on in Aus, so cheap and such good quality, I've had 3.


Yeah I grabbed it from HyperRide. Just discovered them when looking for distributors for Endeavor in Australia, which is just Rhythm and HyperRide. They seem fairly good from the online reviews.:nerd: Great when you pay in $NZ with the Aussie $$$$ being surprisingly better value for money.:surprise::dance:

I get a fair bit of gear from Trigger Bros normally or get clothing etc shipped over from the US of A.:computer1:


----------



## Craig64

F1EA said:


> They are sort of close in what you can do with them, more than how they actually feel when you ride them...
> 
> I only rode the DT once, but in general the Archetype feels a lot more twin (basically much more tail relative to where your feet are). Archetype is softer, wider and easier to pop. I would say the DT is still a true powder board though; like the Landlord, because the shape makes it super floaty. The Archetype is a powder board that can freeride AND freestyle. Both kill groomers.
> 
> DT is quicker edge to edge and damper over uneven terrain; but Archetype adds a freestyle element and begs to pop, butter, slash and still rips at speed. The DT is a bit more of a true speed board but also really quick turning/reactive and agile.



I'll measure them up together when the Archetype comes in a few days time and do a comparison. I'll set them back a fair bit. Just hoping the Archeytpe will sink a little more on the back foot in the powder.


----------



## sush1

Craig51 said:


> Just hoping the Archeytpe will sink a little more on the back foot in the powder.


Float felt effortless to me. Rode bottomless japanese backcountry on it and it was zero effort. Had people talking about leg burn and I wasn't even putting weight on my back foot. If you somehow get the nose to go under you have 100% certainty it's coming back up.


----------



## Craig64

sush1 said:


> Float felt effortless to me. Rode bottomless japanese backcountry on it and it was zero effort. Had people talking about leg burn and I wasn't even putting weight on my back foot. If you somehow get the nose to go under you have 100% certainty it's coming back up.


This is good to hear. I know with the Dump Truck in Japan the nose kept up extremely well in the powder. I had the bindings front and back dialed back 20mm but still felt to a tiny degree that I needed to watch my back foot as it still had a bit of float. I would get a tiny bit of leg burn on very long runs when I was slashing the arse out of the mountain but this could be down to my fitness as well. I think with the big swallow tail that it would sink a lot easier than the DT.:smile:

Due to where I live I haven't seen an Endeavor board in the flesh so do they come with all the hardware. Every review I've looked at had them showing the board without any channel mounting plate etc. Lucky I have a spare set in my workshop.


----------



## BurtonAvenger

They'll come with the screw hardware but there won't be any plate.


----------



## F1EA

Craig51 said:


> This is good to hear. I know with the Dump Truck in Japan the nose kept up extremely well in the powder. I had the bindings front and back dialed back 20mm but still felt to a tiny degree that I needed to watch my back foot as it still had a bit of float. I would get a tiny bit of leg burn on very long runs when I was slashing the arse out of the mountain but this could be down to my fitness as well. I think with the big swallow tail that it would sink a lot easier than the DT.:smile:
> 
> Due to where I live I haven't seen an Endeavor board in the flesh so do they come with all the hardware. Every review I've looked at had them showing the board without any channel mounting plate etc. Lucky I have a spare set in my workshop.


Yeah the boards come with the rubber channel plugs and the metal inserts. If it doesn't, then contact the shop you got it from or Endeavor, or even Burton, and I'm sure one of them will sort you out.

The tail sinks, but it's not a board you ride *only* off the tail (like Landlord, Cheetah, Fish). You're also able to steer it a bit more based off a centered stance if you want...


----------



## Craig64

F1EA said:


> Yeah the boards come with the rubber channel plugs and the metal inserts. If it doesn't, then contact the shop you got it from or Endeavor, or even Burton, and I'm sure one of them will sort you out.
> 
> The tail sinks, but it's not a board you ride *only* off the tail (like Landlord, Cheetah, Fish). You're also able to steer it a bit more based off a centered stance if you want...


Thanks for that......, gee looking at your pic's, I hope you don't get pissed off by all the crowds???:wink:

My Archetype is going through Australian Customs right now.:thumbsup:


----------



## Craig64

*Endeavor Archetype 162 unwrapped.*

Well I received my '18 Endeavor Archetype 162 from Hyper Ride NZ today. FFS....., 4 days delivery from Auckland New Zealand to my residence in Newcastle, Australia....,and only $Au9 delivery..., how freakin good is that.

The packaging was okay, but I've had better being fully hard boxed and bubble wrapped within. This came in a large bubble wrap and encased in cardboard shell. I'd give it about a 6 out of 10 but it landed 100% unscathed. Pretty risky for an international parcel transfer with all the handling it would get.










Anyway my son dialed me up whilst I was at work. Was so excited that I came home for lunch to unwrap it. Well this ride looks absolutely so damn sweeeeeeet. Came clear wrapped with all the hardware just like a Burton Board (plugs and Channel mounting plates).

So this is my 1st Endeavor Board. On inspection the quality looks really high. Top sheet is perfect and the finish really good. Annoying little white identity sticker on the base that had to be scraped off as it feel apart when you tried to remove it. Waxed her up with Hertal FC 739 so she's ready to absolutely rip.




















Noticed that you can flex the swallow tails independently fairly easy. Did a mirror overlay with my DT. The Archetype has about 10mm more width in the front but the nose is not as pronounced. It's slightly wider in the waist but narrower in the rear. The binding channels are not as set back as that on the DT. I'll be riding her as far to the tail as I can.
















































We've had our 1st massive low pressure cold front moving across the southern oceans of Australia at present with an estimated dumping to be 30cm this weekend.

Unfortunately I've got to hang on now till the 3rd week in July for my 1st trip.


----------



## Craig64

Brand: Endeavor
Model: Archetype
Year: 2018
Size: 162 (319/263/289)
Bindings: Genesis EST™ (large)
Boots: SLX
Wax: Hertal FC739
Rider: 191cm/95kg (kitted up), 

So just got back from a few days down the snow. Rode a day each on my new '19 Custom 166W and '18 Endeavor Archetype 162. So this is a 1st impression ride from a solid day of riding with the Archetype.










Well it's been 6 months since I've been riding after coming out of the heavenly Hokkaido Alpine so jumping back on the slopes of Australia is a bit of a downgrade but I'll take this any day just to get back on the mountain. My 1st day was on the Custom 166W........, one answer, it was brilliant. Matched her up with a set of Genesis X EST and it was a big carver...., so effortless in performance. I've always felt so content on this board. Absolutely love it.

Day 2. Swap over to the Endeavor Archetype 162. Had her waxed her up with Hertal FC739 and she's a quick little beast. Again dragged my Genesis X EST across. Conditions on the day left me on groomed and later slightly mucked up slushy +2C overcast conditions to ride on. On a plus no real crowd problems.




























So this is my 1st time in riding a swallow tail and the Archetype is a pretty extreme example of this. The Archetype 162 looks a little out there but boy it absolutely rips. It feels like a very competent carver....., turns edge to edge with so much ease. This is the shortest board I've ridden for quite a while (being in the 96kg kitted up range) and you can feel this slight size difference with the Archetype in hand. I had the bindings dialed back to -20mm behind reference front and rear. I'm tending to always set up like this lately as I'm now more into directional freeriding in my older age. This felt okay but underfoot I was feeling an unusual tiny bit wider in stance than on my Custom. I later ripped out the tape measure finding the Archetype was 38mm wider than the Customs 560mm with both their indicated reference points. So I'll definitely be taking this into consideration the next time I set up. 




















I tried to lay down a few high speed euro's and bit the nose in a couple of times. Maybe need to try this out earlier in the day before it gets slightly chewed up. I normally have no problems with this on the longer Custom/Custom X but this could be me just taking on too much for a 1st day ride. The effective edges might be playing into this a little bit here at 1200mm for the Archetype 162 to 1295mm Custom 166W. Just need to be a little less aggressive with this smaller ride.




















So from a 1st day ride on the Archetype it feels fairly solid. It's definitely a good board. Going back down for a week in 3 weeks time and I'll be taking the Custom X, Custom and Archetype. Hoping for a bit of powder to break the Archetype out on. This is where I feel the Archetype will really come to life.


----------



## Craig64

*2019 Endeavor Archetype 162 refresh.*

So....., when I got back from my last trip I noticed that he right swallow tail tip on my '18 Endeavor Archetype 162 had self delaminated. 










This board had not one single mark on it from the time I had on it. I contacted HyperRide in NZ and they wanted me to send it back overseas to them all at my cost so they could process a warranty claim. 










This would have been very expensive $$$$$$$ for me to send a snowboard overseas and thought this was pretty poor customer service from them. Anyway, I contacted Endeavor SB in Canada (Max Jenke) who was absolutely brilliant. He gave me a variety of options to proceed with with even one of keeping the '18 board and he'd send me a new one when they came into stock. I had worked in the fibreglass industry 30+ years ago and could have easily repaired the board but Max organised a warranty swap over at Rhythm in Australia for a '19 Archetype 162 (they had no 160W in Australia). Was stoked with this and it's a massive plus for Endeavor for their great Customer Service. I've also found Burton Australia to be absolutely brilliant as well.










Happy I got that all sorted out in order to have a further few days on the '19 Archetype and another 2 days on '19 Custom 166W. Conditions were the usually groomed to mucked up Australian Alpine piste. Plenty of snow just not much fresh stuff. Both boards ripped. 










Had the Archetype fitted with Genesis X EST and dialed fully back to the rear on front and around -20 on the rear at my usual 560mm stance. found a couple of untouched fresh patches and slashed around on the Archetype. I could feel the Archetype coming into its own here and really lapping these areas up. This ride also carves very hard for a semi S rocker type (hover camber) of set up with it never losing an edge when I was laying it over and cranking it hard. 










I notice the nose slightly bounces around when riding rougher areas of terrain. The Archetype has 2 carbon strips running in a V pattern from each swallow tail to around half way up the board for stiffness but to me this board feels a tiny less stiffer than say a Custom. So I'm hanging to get this board over to Hokkaido to give it a real workout. Will see how I go with luggage weight but will take my Dump Truck 163, Archetype 162 and maybe if I can squeeze it in, the Custom 166W for those bluebird days.

So all in all from my short experience....., the Archetype feels like a pretty sweet board.


----------



## Scalpelman

Interesting board. Glad you got a warranty fix. Forgive my ignorance but how exactly does the swallow tail impact performance? 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Craig64

Scalpelman said:


> Interesting board. Glad you got a warranty fix. Forgive my ignorance but how exactly does the swallow tail impact performance?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


The swallow tail is designed to allow the tail to sink very easily in the powder (reduces surface area) which helps to keep the nose planning up (creating lift) while allowing you to have that longer effective cambered edge in order to put down solid carves back out on the piste. The swallow tail also allows the rear edges to twist independently of each other. 






I only hit a few areas on say 3 inch powder pockets and this board feels like it comes to life here. So 99% of my time on this board was on piste where I found it carves really solid. When you glance behind on a carve you can see the rear effective edge in the swallow tail flexed up a lot more than the opposing downhill side. I'd be around 98kg kitted up so I'm on the top end/just over the weight for this board. Probably wish it was 30mm longer but I ride this set back. I've felt a handful of times I've almost buried the nose when you really lay it over. I think I'm just used to a little longer board......, or, I just need to get it rocking in Hokkaido.

I'm a freeride/all mountain type of rider. It can ride switch okay for a tapered directional setup.


----------



## coatsworth

Just looked at the Endeavor site to see the new specs and noticed they brought in a 160W with a 282mm waist width. How would that compare to the 162 with a 263mm waist width? More float and ability to lay it over a bit more? How would that affect maneuverability in the trees? About 220lbs/100kg, size 11 burton boot btw.


----------



## Craig64

coatsworth said:


> Just looked at the Endeavor site to see the new specs and noticed they brought in a 160W with a 282mm waist width. How would that compare to the 162 with a 263mm waist width? More float and ability to lay it over a bit more? How would that affect maneuverability in the trees? About 220lbs/100kg, size 11 burton boot btw.


We didn't have a 2019 EA 160W in Australia. I did some rough maths with the dimensions from Endeavor and found it was only about 1% bigger in surface area than a 162.


----------



## big-cactus

Would i be dumb if i bought the archetype while being in Ontario? Board looks too nice to resist but would it be a waste to ride this on the ice coast?


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## Craig64

big-cactus said:


> Would i be dumb if i bought the archetype while being in Ontario? Board looks too nice to resist but would it be a waste to ride this on the ice coast?


It carves pretty damn good on the piste. I've never ridden it on ice but not many boards love this other than stiffer full camber boards with razor sharp edges.

Have a look at my photos' as you can see it carving a descent line in the snow.


----------



## Rip154

With good edges it'll work fine, prolly one of the better powder boards for hardpack. Won't be a waste if you like it, bit hard to say..


----------



## F1EA

big-cactus said:


> Would i be dumb if i bought the archetype while being in Ontario? Board looks too nice to resist but would it be a waste to ride this on the ice coast?


The Archetype is pretty decent on ice. But for mostly or strictly ice and small mountains, it's a bit of a waste. Unless you only ride a little in ON and take trips to places where there's good powder.

Boards like Flight Attendant, Deep Thinker, Endeavor Maverick, Ride Alter Ego, etc etc will let you enjoy more of your usual conditions and still be a blast when you go on trips.


----------



## big-cactus

F1EA said:


> The Archetype is pretty decent on ice. But for mostly or strictly ice and small mountains, it's a bit of a waste. Unless you only ride a little in ON and take trips to places where there's good powder.
> 
> Boards like Flight Attendant, Deep Thinker, Endeavor Maverick, Ride Alter Ego, etc etc will let you enjoy more of your usual conditions and still be a blast when you go on trips.


I do normally go on 1 or 2 trips a winter to bigger mountains. You think the deep thinker or the maverick would still be a better option? Which one of those 2 would you recommend? I feel i've narrowed it down to the the DT or maverick but the archetype just keeps on trying to bump itself into the convo each time i see a pic of it.


----------



## F1EA

big-cactus said:


> I do normally go on 1 or 2 trips a winter to bigger mountains. You think the deep thinker or the maverick would still be a better option? Which one of those 2 would you recommend? I feel i've narrowed it down to the the DT or maverick but the archetype just keeps on trying to bump itself into the convo each time i see a pic of it.


Yeah Deep Thinker or Maverick would be better options. The Archetype is really good on icy conditions, groomers and very playful FOR A FREERIDE powder board.

The Deep Thinker and Maverick are essentially freestyle boards which will let you ride powder, freeride and carve; so they will be more 'fun' at slower speeds and so on but less big mountain powder board than the Archetype...

My buddy has a Endeavor Patrol (which is the Maverick split) and he loves it. He's ridden it with me on icy groomers, knee-deep+ fresh pow and steeper slopes on days when I've been on either the Cheetah, Archetype or Flight Attendant split... so the board is plenty capable. It's a bit more twin, softer and I think less camber than the Deep Thinker. 

If you're a freestyle twin kind of guy but want a board that will let you ride powder and enjoy a smaller mountain, then the Maverick is great. The Maverick is very similar to Flight Attendant. 
If you're a aggressive freeride/carving directional kind of guy but want a board that will let you have playful fun on smaller mountains, then the Deep Thinker is great. 
If you want a powder board that will let you pop, rip and charge and still be surviveable on smaller mountains, then the Archetype. The Archetype is the widest of these 3 boards.

Bottom line is the 3 of them are actually damn good boards and I personally haven't met anyone who hasn't liked either......


----------



## SGboarder

F1EA said:


> Yeah Deep Thinker or Maverick would be better options. The Archetype is really good on icy conditions, groomers and very playful FOR A FREERIDE powder board.
> 
> The Deep Thinker and Maverick are essentially freestyle boards which will let you ride powder, freeride and carve; so they will be more 'fun' at slower speeds and so on but less big mountain powder board than the Archetype...
> 
> My buddy has a Endeavor Patrol (which is the Maverick split) and he loves it. He's ridden it with me on icy groomers, knee-deep+ fresh pow and steeper slopes on days when I've been on either the Cheetah, Archetype or Flight Attendant split... so the board is plenty capable. It's a bit more twin, softer and I think less camber than the Deep Thinker.
> 
> If you're a freestyle twin kind of guy but want a board that will let you ride powder and enjoy a smaller mountain, then the Maverick is great. The Maverick is very similar to Flight Attendant.
> If you're a aggressive freeride/carving directional kind of guy but want a board that will let you have playful fun on smaller mountains, then the Deep Thinker is great.
> If you want a powder board that will let you pop, rip and charge and still be surviveable on smaller mountains, then the Archetype. The Archetype is the widest of these 3 boards.
> 
> Bottom line is the 3 of them are actually damn good boards and I personally haven't met anyone who hasn't liked either......


Pretty much agree with everything he said (except replace freestyle with all-mountain throughout the post).


----------



## big-cactus

F1EA said:


> Yeah Deep Thinker or Maverick would be better options. The Archetype is really good on icy conditions, groomers and very playful FOR A FREERIDE powder board.
> 
> The Deep Thinker and Maverick are essentially freestyle boards which will let you ride powder, freeride and carve; so they will be more 'fun' at slower speeds and so on but less big mountain powder board than the Archetype...
> 
> My buddy has a Endeavor Patrol (which is the Maverick split) and he loves it. He's ridden it with me on icy groomers, knee-deep+ fresh pow and steeper slopes on days when I've been on either the Cheetah, Archetype or Flight Attendant split... so the board is plenty capable. It's a bit more twin, softer and I think less camber than the Deep Thinker.
> 
> If you're a freestyle twin kind of guy but want a board that will let you ride powder and enjoy a smaller mountain, then the Maverick is great. The Maverick is very similar to Flight Attendant.
> If you're a aggressive freeride/carving directional kind of guy but want a board that will let you have playful fun on smaller mountains, then the Deep Thinker is great.
> If you want a powder board that will let you pop, rip and charge and still be surviveable on smaller mountains, then the Archetype. The Archetype is the widest of these 3 boards.
> 
> Bottom line is the 3 of them are actually damn good boards and I personally haven't met anyone who hasn't liked either......


Wow... thanks for the comment. I think you've steered me more to getting the Deep Thinker.

I still may grab an archetype just because i can get for 50% off through a buddy but I'd definitely be using the DT as my main driver.

Thanks again for your insight. You really helped me on this


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## F1EA

SGboarder said:


> Pretty much agree with everything he said (except replace freestyle with all-mountain throughout the post).


hahah yea I kinda hate the term 'all mountain'. So I just use 'freestyle' liberally 



big-cactus said:


> Wow... thanks for the comment. I think you've steered me more to getting the Deep Thinker.
> 
> I still may grab an archetype just because i can get for 50% off through a buddy but I'd definitely be using the DT as my main driver.
> 
> Thanks again for your insight. You really helped me on this


At 50% off get both. Use the Archetype to trips to bigger mountains or really deep powder; and keep the DT for everyday needs including powder when it's not crazy deep.


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## coloradodirtbag

Has anyone ridden the scout? How would it compare to my Archetype? I ride in Colorado and the Archetype almost feels like overkill for most pow days.


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## Craig64

coloradodirtbag said:


> Has anyone ridden the scout? How would it compare to my Archetype? I ride in Colorado and the Archetype almost feels like overkill for most pow days.


Powder Series

On stiffness Endeavor rate the Scout *soft*, Maverick *Medium* and Archetype *stiff* (Carbon V). Same "hover camber" with 12 to 14mm of taper in the Scout as opposed to 25 to 30mm taper in Archetype. Both rides have 50mm directional setback. I have to wait till Feb to get some serious powder time on my Archetype but boy, it's a pretty smooth carver on the piste. Found a few remote powder stashes and you can feel it definitely getting excited in there. The side cut radius is a lot less in the Scout so it would be a little bit better amongst the trees.

Everywhere you look the Archetype gets pretty solid reviews so this is probably telling you something.

I love this board. Would I buy another........, most definitely yes.😉


----------



## Snurfer757

F1EA said:


> sush1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Going to pick up an archetype for freeride/powder. Genesis, cartel or malavitas? Assuming the stiffer the better?
> 
> I felt the board in the shop and it doesn't seem as stiff as they say on their chart.
> 
> 
> 
> Yep. Not too stiff. Either of those 3 will work fine. Genesis probably the better option.
> 
> Personally, I'm putting Diodes or Genesis X.
> But will also try Genesis, Flux SF and Now Pilots on it just for the love of Science. Pretty sure any one will be fine...
Click to expand...

Did you ever sample the different bindings on the Archetype? I’ve got one on the way and trying to sort out my binding selection. I’ve got a pair of ~2013 cartels and missions to try, but wondering if the genesis x might be the ticket in the matte black. For what it’s worth I’ll be lucky if my powder riding tops 50% of the use for me on this board, so I’ll be hard carving and slashing around in bounds quite a bit. 

On the genesis X, do the springbeds really give much back in the way of livening up rebound out of carves??

(Thanks for the great read everyone on this post. Got me hyped for this new addition.)

150lbs. 5’9”. Sz 9.5 boot. 154cm Archetype


----------



## MMSlasher

Craig51 said:


> https://au.endeavorsnowboards.com/collections/powder-series
> 
> On stiffness Endeavor rate the Scout *soft*, Maverick *Medium* and Archetype *stiff* (Carbon V). Same "hover camber" with 12 to 14mm of taper in the Scout as opposed to 25 to 30mm taper in Archetype. Both rides have 50mm directional setback. I have to wait till Feb to get some serious powder time on my Archetype but boy, it's a pretty smooth carver on the piste. Found a few remote powder stashes and you can feel it definitely getting excited in there. The side cut radius is a lot less in the Scout so it would be a little bit better amongst the trees.
> 
> Everywhere you look the Archetype gets pretty solid reviews so this is probably telling you something.
> 
> I love this board. Would I buy another........, most definitely yes.:wink:


Wow Craig, I don't mean to quote you twice today, or come off as a dick, but dam, you definitely know how to shit on the look of a board. All those stickers and do you really need a stomp pad? While I have never handled the Archetype, it seems to have a great looking black finish and you go and deface it like that. Why :dunno:

Enjoy that Arch, it seems like a great board.


----------



## F1EA

Snurfer757 said:


> Did you ever sample the different bindings on the Archetype? I’ve got one on the way and trying to sort out my binding selection. I’ve got a pair of ~2013 cartels and missions to try, but wondering if the genesis x might be the ticket in the matte black. For what it’s worth I’ll be lucky if my powder riding tops 50% of the use for me on this board, so I’ll be hard carving and slashing around in bounds quite a bit.
> 
> On the genesis X, do the springbeds really give much back in the way of livening up rebound out of carves??
> 
> (Thanks for the great read everyone on this post. Got me hyped for this new addition.)
> 
> 150lbs. 5’9”. Sz 9.5 boot. 154cm Archetype


Yeah I've tried it with a couple of bindings. Not as many bindings as I would have liked because..... I got more boards 

But, best match up is with Genesis X EST.
Also tried it with normal Genesis... a little bit too soft for it, when not in powder. But great dampening.

Now Drives. Pretty much as good as Genesis X. Maybe a bit better dampening. But I liked the flexier highback of the Gen X.

Flux SF. The response was good and great for twisting and manipulating the board, but the dampening is terrible. With this board, I prefer a bit more dampening. Like Now and Genesis. If I rode it only in good sweet pow, then the SF are great. I put the SF on a Fish because I ride that mostly when it's all pow.

I ended up riding it the most with Diode EST, but they have too much response. Same spring bed as Genesis X. I still like the Gen X better, but those were in the Fish or Cheetah. For this season, I'll probably put the Diodes on the Cheetah and keep the GenX on the Archetype.

The spring bed is nice. I can't really tell if it adds much rebound, but the response is neat. Especially in pow. In groomers or chop, I still prefer the normal autocant or the Now footbeds.

Other bindings I would use on this board would be Union Atlas, Ride Capo or Rome Katana. All have great dampening, lots of response, but not overpowering. So I'd prefer these medium/stiff over stuff like Falcor, El Hefe, Targa, Diode, etc.

Ah also... Reflex vs EST
The Hinge is awesome, so I prefer them only for this reason, the spring bed alone to me wouldn't justify going for EST. If you want more adjustability or stance options, then the Reflex version, Union, Rome, Ride, etc have way more adjustability on the channel.


----------



## Powhunter

Craig51 said:


> coloradodirtbag said:
> 
> 
> 
> Has anyone ridden the scout? How would it compare to my Archetype? I ride in Colorado and the Archetype almost feels like overkill for most pow days.
> 
> 
> 
> https://au.endeavorsnowboards.com/collections/powder-series
> 
> On stiffness Endeavor rate the Scout *soft*, Maverick *Medium* and Archetype *stiff* (Carbon V). Same "hover camber" with 12 to 14mm of taper in the Scout as opposed to 25 to 30mm taper in Archetype. Both rides have 50mm directional setback. I have to wait till Feb to get some serious powder time on my Archetype but boy, it's a pretty smooth carver on the piste. Found a few remote powder stashes and you can feel it definitely getting excited in there. The side cut radius is a lot less in the Scout so it would be a little bit better amongst the trees.
> 
> Everywhere you look the Archetype gets pretty solid reviews so this is probably telling you something.
> 
> I love this board. Would I buy another........, most definitely yes.<img src="http://www.snowboardingforum.com/images/SnowboardingForum_2015/smilies/tango_face_wink.png" border="0" alt="" title="Wink" class="inlineimg" />
Click to expand...

How would you compare the DT to the Archetype? Particular in steep terrain and chopped up pow


----------



## Craig64

Powhunter said:


> How would you compare the DT to the Archetype? Particular in steep terrain and chopped up pow


Have not ridden the Archetype in powder yet. Have to wait till I go to Japan for 2 weeks in Feb'. The DT is an absolutely brilliant freeride/powder board. Could feel this within only a few minutes of use. The Archetype (Genesis X est) gelled with me exactly the same, fantastic board, but I've only ridden it in Australia on the piste.


----------



## sush1

Snurfer757 said:


> Did you ever sample the different bindings on the Archetype? I’ve got one on the way and trying to sort out my binding selection. I’ve got a pair of ~2013 cartels and missions to try, but wondering if the genesis x might be the ticket in the matte black. For what it’s worth I’ll be lucky if my powder riding tops 50% of the use for me on this board, so I’ll be hard carving and slashing around in bounds quite a bit.
> 
> On the genesis X, do the springbeds really give much back in the way of livening up rebound out of carves??
> 
> (Thanks for the great read everyone on this post. Got me hyped for this new addition.)
> 
> 150lbs. 5’9”. Sz 9.5 boot. 154cm Archetype


Hey mate, I rode it with malavitas and regular genesis and both were fantastic. I preferred the malavitas just because they were a bit more simple but the genesis had a nice surfy feel. I don't think you can really go wrong to be honest.

Had to let the board go but if I get a chance to get a 160w I will definitely pick it up though.


----------



## F1EA

Powhunter said:


> How would you compare the DT to the Archetype? Particular in steep terrain and chopped up pow


I've tried both. hah

Dump Truck is a bit stiffer, more damp and soaks up bumps better, but it is a turny board.
Archetype is more planted when on edge and is a bit softer so it lets you force the board into any turn, but it feels bouncier on chop.

Both are pretty good at speed. But I'd say the Dump Truck is probably better against chop. The Archetype is fine against chop (just not as good as DT) and more playful so a bit more of a freestyle/freeride board, while DT is a freeride board period.

I would rather have the DT as a daily driver than the Archetype. But for a fun powder board... I think Archetype.


----------



## zc1

@F1EA and @Phedder:

How does the flex of the Archetype compare to the Live and High 5 in your opinions? I had a 2018 High 5 159W and thought that it was just OK flex-wise, while my 2016 Live 156 cm is too soft for my liking when it comes to all-mountain riding but perfect for just goofing around. I've been looking at the Archetype for several seasons, now, and still haven't made the leap partly because I'm worried that it'll be too soft for my liking.

Is there any other board that you think is a good comparison as far as flex is concerned?


----------



## F1EA

zc1 said:


> @F1EA and @Phedder:
> 
> How does the flex of the Archetype compare to the Live and High 5 in your opinions? I had a 2018 High 5 159W and thought that it was just OK flex-wise, while my 2016 Live 156 cm is too soft for my liking when it comes to all-mountain riding but perfect for just goofing around. I've been looking at the Archetype for several seasons, now, and still haven't made the leap partly because I'm worried that it'll be too soft for my liking.
> 
> Is there any other board that you think is a good comparison as far as flex is concerned?


Archetype is definitely stiffer than the Live. I think it's same flex as high5 but the split tail softens up the ride. 

I guess a similar kind of flex would be the Kazu and Deep Thinker. Dump Truck, Custom X, Landlord, Jones hovercraft and stuff like that are stiffer.

Shoot a message to Avran at angry snowboarder; I bet he has a lot of comparison points, given he rides a ton of boards...


----------



## zc1

F1EA said:


> Archetype is definitely stiffer than the Live. I think it's same flex as high5 but the split tail softens up the ride.
> 
> I guess a similar kind of flex would be the Kazu and Deep Thinker. Dump Truck, Custom X, Landlord, Jones hovercraft and stuff like that are stiffer.
> 
> Shoot a message to Avran at angry snowboarder; I bet he has a lot of comparison points, given he rides a ton of boards...


That's helpful. Thanks. It's a board that would have to be a blind purchase so I'm trying to get as much info as possible to finally decide yay or nay. From my experience so far it's tough to get a good feel for Endeavor specs from their descriptions and spec sheets. Deep Thinker I can easily find locally, so that helps.


----------



## F1EA

zc1 said:


> That's helpful. Thanks. It's a board that would have to be a blind purchase so I'm trying to get as much info as possible to finally decide yay or nay. From my experience so far it's tough to get a good feel for Endeavor specs from their descriptions and spec sheets. Deep Thinker I can easily find locally, so that helps.


Yep my older Live (2014) is A LOT stiffer than the current ones. 

The Archetype is almost stiff, but stops just short of being a stiff board, and then the split tail makes the tail feel softer. Whereas most boards with shorter tail and directional camber feel stiffer on the tail, the Archetype doesn't. 

What the Archetype gets perfect is the sidecut radius combined with the tail flex...
If you don't add too much pressure, you can draw out the turn; but when you need a sharper turn, you just add power to the tail and it'll slice, without feeling washy because the edge behind your foot is not so short.

So if you like stiff boards, the Archetype is not one. It's stiff enough, but not stiff.


----------



## zc1

F1EA said:


> Yep my older Live (2014) is A LOT stiffer than the current ones.
> 
> The Archetype is almost stiff, but stops just short of being a stiff board, and then the split tail makes the tail feel softer. Whereas most boards with shorter tail and directional camber feel stiffer on the tail, the Archetype doesn't.
> 
> What the Archetype gets perfect is the sidecut radius combined with the tail flex...
> If you don't add too much pressure, you can draw out the turn; but when you need a sharper turn, you just add power to the tail and it'll slice, without feeling washy because the edge behind your foot is not so short.
> 
> So if you like stiff boards, the Archetype is not one. It's stiff enough, but not stiff.


That's pretty much exactly what I was after. I'm thinking it'll be worth trying out just for something completely different, anyway. I'm tempted to go 162 rather than 158.


----------



## F1EA

zc1 said:


> That's pretty much exactly what I was after. I'm thinking it'll be worth trying out just for something completely different, anyway. I'm tempted to go 162 rather than 158.


Yes, it will definitely be something different. I have a few boards that you would say are similar, but still the Archetype feel is very unique.
Worst case for it would be if you have really small feet and riding it primarily on moguls....


----------



## coloradodirtbag

zc1 said:


> @F1EA and @Phedder:
> 
> How does the flex of the Archetype compare to the Live and High 5 in your opinions? I had a 2018 High 5 159W and thought that it was just OK flex-wise, while my 2016 Live 156 cm is too soft for my liking when it comes to all-mountain riding but perfect for just goofing around. I've been looking at the Archetype for several seasons, now, and still haven't made the leap partly because I'm worried that it'll be too soft for my liking.
> 
> Is there any other board that you think is a good comparison as far as flex is concerned?


I've been eyeing up the 2019 High 5 all year, how did you like the board? Currently have a warpig, and archetype, looking for a more traditional twin charger type shape to add to the quiver. What boards would you compare to the high 5? custom X?


----------



## zc1

coloradodirtbag said:


> I've been eyeing up the 2019 High 5 all year, how did you like the board? Currently have a warpig, and archetype, looking for a more traditional twin charger type shape to add to the quiver. What boards would you compare to the high 5? custom X?


There are only two boards that I've sold and then had persistent regret: Rome National and Endeavor High 5. 

Funny enough, of the boards that I've owned the National is what I would consider to be the closest in personality to the High 5. They're just really solid all-mountain freestyle twins that you can take anywhere. Lively, but not overly-so, poppy, good energy/dynamics when you feel like riding a bit more spiritedly(?). From Burton it's definitely more Custom than Custom X. The Custom X is more aggressive and I'm not sure that Endeavor has anything that plays in that space. I had thought the High 5 might be it, but it wasn't. I'm not saying that that's a bad thing at all. It's a great board. I wish I still had it, and at some point I'll have that or a National again. 

I sold the High 5 because I rode the National more. Then I sold the National and am trying to sell a couple of other boards because I want to get some points with my wife before purchasing an Archetype, lol.


----------



## Phedder

F1EA said:


> What the Archetype gets perfect is the sidecut radius combined with the tail flex...
> If you don't add too much pressure, you can draw out the turn; but when you need a sharper turn, you just add power to the tail and it'll slice, without feeling washy because the edge behind your foot is not so short.
> 
> So if you like stiff boards, the Archetype is not one. It's stiff enough, but not stiff.


Nailed it. I actually spend more time carving on it than riding powder, now that's not by choice... but still speaks volumes. It is by far my favourite board to just *turn*, at any speed. The shocking thing is that it can turn well at any speed, I enjoy it on mellow cat tracks as well as flat out bombing steeps. 

Tossing up between the 158 and 162, what's your weight and boot size?


----------



## zc1

Phedder said:


> Nailed it. *I actually spend more time carving on it than riding powder, now that's not by choice*... but still speaks volumes. It is by far my favourite board to just *turn*, at any speed. The shocking thing is that it can turn well at any speed, I enjoy it on mellow cat tracks as well as flat out bombing steeps.
> 
> Tossing up between the 158 and 162, what's your weight and boot size?


I'm ~175 lbs without gear, size 9 boot. My comparison boards are:

-160 cm Super 8 (had a 157 and swapped up to the 160 and couldn't be happier) -- 26.4 WW, 120 EE
-156 cm Skipjack (26.5 WW, 122 EE)

By Burton's ratings I should be on the 152 Skipjack (weight range for the 156 is 180 to 260), but I tend towards longer boards and to me the 156 is just right...wouldn't even mind a bit longer. By Salomon's ratings I'm right in the middle of the range for the Super 8 160 and it actually feels perfect.

Seeing as how the Archetype's swallow tail seems to allow it to turn like it's smaller than it is, and my experience with the 156 cm Live and 159 W High 5 was that they were both less stiff than I expected/wanted, I'm really tempted to go with the 162.

The bolded part of your quote is why I tend towards longer boards, even when the advice for a board is to size down vs what you normally ride. I almost never have a day where I ride exclusively powder, and every board I own sees a significant amount of time on groomers and non-powder freeride terrain -- the time that I have off from work and family commitments doesn't always coincide with when the good dumps of snow happen. Longer boards are more fun for me on the groomed stuff than are shorter boards. I like long, drawn out carves.

Seems I've pretty much answered my own question...


----------



## Phedder

You probably should be on the 158, but from the waist width, edge, and stiffness you like I'd say go the 162. The split tail, taper, and torsional flex all combine to make it super smooth and fast edge to edge, so I doubt it would ever feel like too much board.


----------



## unsuspected

zc1 said:


> I'm ~175 lbs without gear, size 9 boot. My comparison boards are:
> 
> -160 cm Super 8 (had a 157 and swapped up to the 160 and couldn't be happier) -- 26.4 WW, 120 EE
> -156 cm Skipjack (25.8 WW, 122 EE)
> 
> By Burton's ratings I should be on the 152 Skipjack (weight range for the 156 is 180 to 260), but I tend towards longer boards and to me the 156 is just right...wouldn't even mind a bit longer. By Salomon's ratings I'm right in the middle of the range for the Super 8 160 and it actually feels perfect.
> 
> Seeing as how the Archetype's swallow tail seems to allow it to turn like it's smaller than it is, and my experience with the 156 cm Live and 159 W High 5 was that they were both less stiff than I expected/wanted, I'm really tempted to go with the 162.
> 
> The bolded part of your quote is why I tend towards longer boards, even when the advice for a board is to size down vs what you normally ride. I almost never have a day where I ride exclusively powder, and every board I own sees a significant amount of time on groomers and non-powder freeride terrain -- the time that I have off from work and family commitments doesn't always coincide with when the good dumps of snow happen. Longer boards are more fun for me on the groomed stuff than are shorter boards. I like long, drawn out carves.
> 
> Seems I've pretty much answered my own question...


SkipJack 156 reissue has a 26,5cm WW


----------



## zc1

unsuspected said:


> SkipJack 156 reissue has a 26,5cm WW


Strange. I don't know why I ended up typing that; definitely didn't check it afterwards. I was trying to make the point that I'm comfortable with boards of similar WW as the 162 Archetype (26.3), but ended up messing up the WW number for the Skipjack, somehow. Thanks for the catch. I'll fix the post so that it actually makes sense (and hopefully makes the point I was trying to make).


----------



## slowturtless

Has anyone experienced any slippage with the channel system? I've never used channels before and although the archetype looks great, I'm a bit hesitant to use only two screws. It seems like complaints of bindings coming loose were back in 2011/2012 and the channel system has been updated?


----------



## Rip154

It doesn't slip. If you get Est bindings, get the ones with a hinge.


----------



## Phedder

slowturtless said:


> Has anyone experienced any slippage with the channel system? I've never used channels before and although the archetype looks great, I'm a bit hesitant to use only two screws. It seems like complaints of bindings coming loose were back in 2011/2012 and the channel system has been updated?


If you actually look after your equipment and check the screws after every few days of riding, like everyone should for any binding, you'll be fine.


----------



## ek9max

Phedder said:


> slowturtless said:
> 
> 
> 
> Has anyone experienced any slippage with the channel system? I've never used channels before and although the archetype looks great, I'm a bit hesitant to use only two screws. It seems like complaints of bindings coming loose were back in 2011/2012 and the channel system has been updated?
> 
> 
> 
> If you actually look after your equipment and check the screws after every few days of riding, like everyone should for any binding, you'll be fine.
Click to expand...

Agreed. I check my hardware even when using 4 bolt. 

On the channel system I do notice it may slide 1mm after a full day. If that.


----------



## Craig64

Phedder said:


> If you actually look after your equipment and check the screws after every few days of riding, like everyone should for any binding, you'll be fine.


I've had in the past (years ago) one of the screws may have loosened whilst riding but always crank it down hard with No.3 PH and always carry a Burton EST tool in my backpack for emergencies. Never had any prob's over the last few years.


----------



## Nic Dion

Would you say the archetype is a decent all rounder for BC (whistler, revy, etc). I know it’s strongly powder oriented, but I usually head straight to the bowls and trees so if it will shine there and be decent on the groomers then seems like a good pick? Off powder I’m usually charging and carving groomers, my other board is a custom x which I like out east where I’m from but won’t cut it on west coast. Thanks!

Also I’m ~165 lbs naked, 5’9. My custom is 158 cm. Think I would get the 158 archetype?

Ty


----------



## F1EA

Nic Dion said:


> Would you say the archetype is a decent all rounder for BC (whistler, revy, etc). I know it’s strongly powder oriented, but I usually head straight to the bowls and trees so if it will shine there and be decent on the groomers then seems like a good pick? Off powder I’m usually charging and carving groomers, my other board is a custom x which I like out east where I’m from but won’t cut it on west coast. Thanks!
> 
> Also I’m ~165 lbs naked, 5’9. My custom is 158 cm. Think I would get the 158 archetype?
> 
> Ty


Yes. 

Shines on powder open bowls and groomers.
Better than decent in trees. If you dont have very small feet, have responsive bindings and are used to manhandling a Custom X, I'm pretty sure you'll be able to turn an Archetype in the trees with no problems.

I'm ~170 lbs on a 158.

Much more similar to a Custom X is the Landlord or Dump Truck. I have a 159 LL and even that is still very different from the Custom X... same core, laminates, carbon and stiffness; but because of the setback, taper and tail shape the board behaves completely different.

I ride it in Whistler all the time, taken it to Big White and will take to Revelstoke and Kicking Horse in March... i have lots of boards to choose from, but the Archetype is coming along for sure.


----------



## zc1

Archetype 162. Believe the hype.

I refrained from commenting when I first rode it. I've had several days on it, now, and am still just as impressed with it.


----------



## Craig64

zc1 said:


> Archetype 162. Believe the hype.
> 
> I refrained from commenting when I first rode it. I've had several days on it, now, and am still just as impressed with it.


2 weeks to go till my Archetype 162 hits Hokkaido.


----------



## motleybeast

Looking at pulling the trigger on an Archetype!

Not 100% sure which size to get though. I'm about 175lbs with all my gear, size 8 boot. I'm getting it mainly for Japan. I'm looking at the 154 or the 158. The reason I'm asking is because I bought a Rossi 159 a couple of years ago, and I'm sure it was physcological, it just felt too long for me, I usually ride boards in the 154/156 range. I know height doesn't matter, but I'm wondering if its because I'm a short dude!

For all you guys that have one, whadya think?


----------



## Craig64

motleybeast said:


> Looking at pulling the trigger on an Archetype!
> 
> Not 100% sure which size to get though. I'm about 175lbs with all my gear, size 8 boot. I'm getting it mainly for Japan. I'm looking at the 154 or the 158. The reason I'm asking is because I bought a Rossi 159 a couple of years ago, and I'm sure it was physcological, it just felt too long for me, I usually ride boards in the 154/156 range. I know height doesn't matter, but I'm wondering if its because I'm a short dude!
> 
> For all you guys that have one, whadya think?


Where you going to grab that from. I see Hyperide NZ didn't get the 2019 model in last year. Rhythm in Australia is the only Endeavor distributor in Australia and they sold out quick. You're sort of in the middle of a 158 that's what I'd go for. I have a 162 (93kg) and wish it was a little longer.


----------



## Phedder

motleybeast said:


> Looking at pulling the trigger on an Archetype!
> 
> Not 100% sure which size to get though. I'm about 175lbs with all my gear, size 8 boot. *I'm getting it mainly for Japan*. I'm looking at the 154 or the 158.


I'd 100% go 158 for you. Perfect Pow+Carve size, I think you might find the 154 a bit lacking if you really pushed it. 

Sidenote, got a pair of Genesis X est and rode them on the Archetype today. Spring bed is the shit, and that foot bed sits a fair bit higher than the regular autocant eva ones. More leverage and more board angle before booting out! Toes aren't an issue at all for me now, still got put on my ass twice by my heelcups though haha.


----------



## robotfood99

motleybeast said:


> I'm about 175lbs with all my gear, size 8 boot. I'm getting it mainly for Japan.



Agree with Phed. You need to be on 158 for Japan. I am 150lbs, 5'9, size 8 boots and LOVE my 154 on everything but nipple deep pow. For that even I ought to be on the 158 so for you, definitely.


----------



## F1EA

motleybeast said:


> Looking at pulling the trigger on an Archetype!
> 
> Not 100% sure which size to get though. I'm about 175lbs with all my gear, size 8 boot. I'm getting it mainly for Japan. I'm looking at the 154 or the 158. The reason I'm asking is because I bought a Rossi 159 a couple of years ago, and I'm sure it was physcological, it just felt too long for me, I usually ride boards in the 154/156 range. I know height doesn't matter, but I'm wondering if its because I'm a short dude!
> 
> For all you guys that have one, whadya think?


Yep. At least 158.

Genesis X are great on this board.


----------



## Craig64

F1EA said:


> Yep. At least 158.
> 
> Genesis X are great on this board.


Gen' X would be great on almost every board.:wink:


----------



## F1EA

Craig51 said:


> Gen' X would be great on almost every board.:wink:


That too.


----------



## smellysell

Finally got my Maverick in some real pow today, some pockets were up to my thighs. Started off on my 11-up the first couple runs because conditions have been really sketchy and wanted to check it out before busting out the new deck. It was the first time I've ridden a pow specific deck in deep stuff, and holy shit, what a difference! Didn't have to make a conscious effort to keep the nose up at all, floated great all on its own. 

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


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## poopresearch

smellysell said:


> Finally got my Maverick in some real pow today, some pockets were up to my thighs. Started off on my 11-up the first couple runs because conditions have been really sketchy and wanted to check it out before busting out the new deck. It was the first time I've ridden a pow specific deck in deep stuff, and holy shit, what a difference! Didn't have to make a conscious effort to keep the nose up at all, floated great all on its own.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


I really like my Maverick. It's nice in the pow and rips at carving up the groomers. It's not a true pow stick, but it suits me much better because it handles groomers and icy chutes no problem. More of a freeride-lite deck


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## Doraibu

pulled the trigger on a 158 Archetype. Was riding the 158 basic for 2 - 3 years previously. so it's a big jump.
Currently in hokkaido. 

Lots of advanced riders here. So here's a first impression from a humble amateur (high beginner/intermediate - shrugs, just a personally feeling)

Scary fast! getting the roller coaster high! 
Powder - floats well. feels even better going one inch set back on pow (probably leaving it as -1 inch for the whole trip)
feeling more confident when going off piste and uneven terrain with some drops. 
pretty lively - feeling all the bumps at speed. wished it was a bit more damped. 
Feeling less confident for turns on the groomer. Feeling like i have less edge control. Less confident at high speed than when riding the basic, so doing a lot of speed check, probably too much :/
the general consensus seems like it should perform well on groomers. my deduction is i'm not used to the width. it's a big jump going from 253cm to 260cm waist width. size 10 US boot mid stiffness and genesis bindings M. Still figuring the best stance angle for this board. 

Need more mileage for a better verdict. For the moment i'm enjoying heavy powder day. not so much when it's not snowing and hard packed.

solution: based on the general consensus of positive reviews, I just need to "git gud". 
Now i'm thinking of buying a directional board with a similar width but with a good grip for the icy ozzy slopes this coming June. Will keeping an eye on second hand sales. Something like Jones explorer but that's like 262mm / 264mm 158W/161W. a bit to wide maybe. hmm...


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## smellysell

poopresearch said:


> I really like my Maverick. It's nice in the pow and rips at carving up the groomers. It's not a true pow stick, but it suits me much better because it handles groomers and icy chutes no problem. More of a freeride-lite deck


Probably true, just more powdery than anything else I've ridden. My Darwin is supposed to be here today, and then more snow tomorrow, so excited to give it a go. 

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


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## poopresearch

smellysell said:


> Probably true, just more powdery than anything else I've ridden. My Darwin is supposed to be here today, and then more snow tomorrow, so excited to give it a go.


One of the main things you will probably notice is being able to float the Darwin at lower speed which makes it easier to ride in gentle trees and such. The Maverick requires a bit more speed to plane on the powder. For me, I like having the tail to rail into when slashing pow or blasting off side hits.

I wish I got to ride pure powder enough to justify a pure powder board in the quiver, but I don't. Even on pow days, I'm riding all kinds of snow and terrain.
:shrug:


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## motleybeast

Craig51 said:


> Where you going to grab that from. I see Hyperide NZ didn't get the 2019 model in last year. Rhythm in Australia is the only Endeavor distributor in Australia and they sold out quick. You're sort of in the middle of a 158 that's what I'd go for. I have a 162 (93kg) and wish it was a little longer.


Yeah, Hyperride NZ have them in stock at the moment with 25% off. Then got another $20 off for joining their mailing list. That was enough for me... should be with me sometime this week. :grin:

Thanks for the recommendations chaps, went for the 158. :thumbsup:

Not sure when I'll get to ride it, but its in the quiver!


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## Craig64

In Furano presently, last day before heading to Niseko for a week. Been an epic amount of snow, 10 to 15cm a day. I brought 3 boards over with me, 163 Dump Truck, 162 Archetype and 161 fish. Yesterday I had a full day on the Archetype in the powder. It was super cold at windchill -35C and managed a little frostbite on nose as I was hammering it home. Well this board went pretty good. Very surfy when you're in the powder. So easy to slash the tail around and change direction on the float. My only one gripe about the Archetype is I wish it was slightly longer for me being around 97kg/191cm kitted up. I have Genesis EST fully to the rear on front foot which is only about -10 and -20 on the rear foot. You notice when driving through untracked the nose sitting a bit low in front even though I'm leaning back slightly. I think I've been a little spoilt with how great the fish has performed. Back out off the powder onto the piste the Archetype feels soooo good as a solid carver. 1st bluebird day outside today at -23C. I wonder what board I will take out today??? 

Just looked out window again heavy cloud coming over......., shit more snow again.


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## virtu

Hey guys,

Shop Nomad, in Sylvan Lake, AB, has both on sale.

They have in their website all info.



Sent from my SM-G950W using Tapatalk


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## virtu

Loved. Loved.
A few laps on groomers and medium jumps. Loved.
















Sent from my SM-G950W using Tapatalk


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## SlvrDragon50

Everyone with the Ride boards! Wish I had more money and space to buy all the gear.


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## Craig64

Last day in Niseko today so I thought I'd end the holiday with a big day on the Archetype. Had around 10 to 15cm in the last 24 hours so plenty of fresh powder available. Been riding my 161 Fish most of the time, really love this board.

Did a number of decent drops into some uncharted zones. The Archetype worked well here so I ventured down for a few runs under the chairs where the untracked powder lay. So the Archetype to me feels way more comfortable as a freeride board than a true power slayer which left me a little disappointed as I was expecting more in the soft stuff from her. It can do powder areas comfortably but it doesn't fill me with the abundant joy I have with the Fish. In my mind it's very similar to my Dump Truck but probably carves slightly better where as the DT enjoys the powder a bit more. They're both really pretty close to each other. I find I get the most joy out of the Archetype out on the groomers. Next year I've put in an order for a '20 Bataleon Surfer to bring over.


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## F1EA

Craig51 said:


> Last day in Niseko today so I thought I'd end the holiday with a big day on the Archetype. Had around 10 to 15cm in the last 24 hours so plenty of fresh powder available. Been riding my 161 Fish most of the time, really love this board.
> 
> Did a number of decent drops into some uncharted zones. The Archetype worked well here so I ventured down for a few runs under the chairs where the untracked powder lay. So the Archetype to me feels way more comfortable as a freeride board than a true power slayer which left me a little disapointed as I was expecting more in the soft stuff from her. It can do powder areas comfortably but it doesn't fill me with the abundant joy I have with the Fish. In my mind it's very similar to my Dump Truck but probably carves slightly better where as the DT enjoys the powder a bit more. They're both really pretty close to each other. I find I get the most joy out of the Archetype out on the groomers. Next year I've put in an order for a '20 Bataleon Surfer to bring over.


Yup, that's how the Atype is. Different from a Fish. And yeah Dump Truck floats more, BUT both the DT and Fish are extremely setback and pretty tapered.... so if you aren't used to all that setback and taper, you have to adapt a bit. Atype is almost like a twin, which some people really like.


----------



## aldenowens

Craig51 said:


> Last day in Niseko today so I thought I'd end the holiday with a big day on the Archetype. Had around 10 to 15cm in the last 24 hours so plenty of fresh powder available. Been riding my 161 Fish most of the time, really love this board.
> 
> Did a number of decent drops into some uncharted zones. The Archetype worked well here so I ventured down for a few runs under the chairs where the untracked powder lay. So the Archetype to me feels way more comfortable as a freeride board than a true power slayer which left me a little disapointed as I was expecting more in the soft stuff from her. It can do powder areas comfortably but it doesn't fill me with the abundant joy I have with the Fish. In my mind it's very similar to my Dump Truck but probably carves slightly better where as the DT enjoys the powder a bit more. They're both really pretty close to each other. I find I get the most joy out of the Archetype out on the groomers. Next year I've put in an order for a '20 Bataleon Surfer to bring over.


Curious to know if you had the Archetype set back all the way similar to the Fish?


----------



## Craig64

aldenowens said:


> Curious to know if you had the Archetype set back all the way similar to the Fish?


Yes, I had the EST binding at the front at -10 which is fully to the rear and at -20 on the rear foot.


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## aldenowens

Craig51 said:


> Yes, I had the EST binding at the front at -10 which is fully to the rear and at -20 on the rear foot.


Interesting. Sounds like the Fish is in a class by itself when it comes to deep pow riding. Wonder how it compares to the Surfer. 


Thanks for the updates from your trip. Sounds like you had a great time.


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## F1EA

virtu said:


> Loved. Loved.
> A few laps on groomers and medium jumps. Loved.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950W using Tapatalk


Damn. These boards look hawt.


----------



## Ben.S

Craig51 said:


> Last day in Niseko today so I thought I'd end the holiday with a big day on the Archetype. Had around 10 to 15cm in the last 24 hours so plenty of fresh powder available. Been riding my 161 Fish most of the time, really love this board.
> 
> Did a number of decent drops into some uncharted zones. The Archetype worked well here so I ventured down for a few runs under the chairs where the untracked powder lay. So the Archetype to me feels way more comfortable as a freeride board than a true power slayer which left me a little disapointed as I was expecting more in the soft stuff from her. It can do powder areas comfortably but it doesn't fill me with the abundant joy I have with the Fish. In my mind it's very similar to my Dump Truck but probably carves slightly better where as the DT enjoys the powder a bit more. They're both really pretty close to each other. I find I get the most joy out of the Archetype out on the groomers. Next year I've put in an order for a '20 Bataleon Surfer to bring over.


In the Endeavor videos Rusty Ockenden mentions that for Japan he rides the Scout (short-fat pow board).

Despite calling the Archetype the ultimate powder board, Endeavor also say that it "dominates steep and deep." For the most part this seems to be consistent with the riding impressions I've seen as well as my own impressions. It's been said here a bunch of times that it's a freeride board that can handle powder rather than being a true powder board. If you approach it from that angle then it makes more sense and won't set you up for disappointment if you're riding low-angle and really fluffy/soft powder.


----------



## ckang008

I was ay Niseko area for past two weeks and brought 3 boards with me:
Archetype 162cm
Spring Break powder wolf 165cm
Neversummer summit RC 167cm

Riding in annupuri with majority deep soft snow but lots of flat area, I prefer taking out the Archetype. The speed of the archetype can get me through the flat parts while it is nimble enough to get through trees and get some jumps off natural feature. 

Riding in grand hirafu, especially super run or the annupuri gate 3 area, I prefer the summit with bigger bowl, steeper runs just surfing through the untracked powder. 

Surprisingly, the powder wolf was the least interesting board of the 3 to ride although it is shaped for big bowl stuff. I rode it 2 days at hirafu but didn't really get me too excited as summit rode better. 

Pretty much the archetype is my go to board if I only can bring one with me. Great for most condition and very fun and stable to go fast on.


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## virtu

Ok guys, I will need your advice.

My next snowboard trip is getting close and I am not sure which board to take with me. The forecast for the ski resorts are showing almost no snow, so it means that the conditions will be close to hard pack snow.
The resorts that I am talking about is:

March 1st, Friday: Kicking Horse or Panorama. I am going to be in Golden Thursday night, and in that night I will decide if it will be Kicking Horse or Panorama the chosen one.
March 2nd, Saturday: Revelstoke

I have 2 boards: RIDE Twinpig 154 and Endevor Archetype 162.

If you have to take only one, which one?

Thanks.


----------



## MMSlasher

virtu said:


> Ok guys, I will need your advice.
> 
> My next snowboard trip is getting close and I am not sure which board to take with me. The forecast for the ski resorts are showing almost no snow, so it means that the conditions will be close to hard pack snow.
> The resorts that I am talking about is:
> 
> March 1st, Friday: Kicking Horse or Panorama. I am going to be in Golden Thursday night, and in that night I will decide if it will be Kicking Horse or Panorama the chosen one.
> March 2nd, Saturday: Revelstoke
> 
> I have 2 boards: RIDE Twinpig 154 and Endevor Archetype 162.
> 
> If you have to take only one, which one?
> 
> Thanks.


Why not both?


----------



## Craig64

The Archetype goes fairly good on groomers. Not as good as a full. cambered ride but fairly close. It wont disappoint. Not sure about the Ride. Bit of a difference in sizes. I'm the same, I'll take as many boards I can to cover the options.


----------



## F1EA

virtu said:


> Ok guys, I will need your advice.
> 
> My next snowboard trip is getting close and I am not sure which board to take with me. The forecast for the ski resorts are showing almost no snow, so it means that the conditions will be close to hard pack snow.
> The resorts that I am talking about is:
> 
> March 1st, Friday: Kicking Horse or Panorama. I am going to be in Golden Thursday night, and in that night I will decide if it will be Kicking Horse or Panorama the chosen one.
> March 2nd, Saturday: Revelstoke
> 
> I have 2 boards: RIDE Twinpig 154 and Endevor Archetype 162.
> 
> If you have to take only one, which one?
> 
> Thanks.


Take both boards but only 1 pair of bindings to save space. 

I'm actually doing that same trip but on the Mar 8 weekend. Hopefully the forecast improves by then..... because I'm not going if there's no new snow.


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## virtu

Plans changed 

Instead of going to Revelstoke, I am heading to 2 days in Panorama because of possible 10cm of fresh snow. 
Fresh snow means Archetype


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## djblade

SnowDragon said:


> Well, the 2017 line up had
> 1. Rocker/flat/rocker
> 2. Rocker/camber/rocker
> 3. 3D rocker/camber/3D rocker
> All 3 above were true twins.
> 
> 4. Powder line of directional, tapered decks, with the Archetype being a swallow tail.
> 
> As mentioned above, I bought the Clout and High5, and demo'd the Archetype. They are all fun, poppy, versatile boards.
> My favourite was the Clout, so I am selling my High5, but I could easily keep that one as well.


What did you think of Clout for a beginner intermediate?


----------



## wredny

djblade said:


> What did you think of Clout for a beginner intermediate?


I know I'm not the you asked, but I was going to get either clout or bod. Chris from Endeavor recommended bod for a daily driver and he was right. I consider myself as intermediate rider, never tried clout but if its stiffer (and I believe it is) than bod than its probably too much for beginner. I had a chance to test bod two weeks ago and it is little bit stiffer than middle of the road. 
If you wish to read more about my experience with bod look at clout vs bod thread.
https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink?ur...share_tid=260825&share_fid=49794&share_type=t


----------



## Phedder

Figured I'd throw this short clip in here, shows why I love this board so much, it's versatile! I can have just as much fun on a flat green run mucking around as I can bombing off the backside of Lake Louise or hauling ass on a groomer. Never too much board, and never not enough.


----------



## Craig64

Noticed that Rhythm have got the '20 Archetype listed for sale at $Au999.99:surprise:
Top sheet graphic looks very sweet.

https://www.rhythmsnowsports.com.au/2020-endeavor-archetype-snowboard-137061.html

Makes my '19 Archetype I grabbed for $Au490 from Hyper Ride NZ seem like the bargain of the year.


----------



## JDA

Craig51 said:


> Noticed that Rhythm have got the '20 Archetype listed for sale at $Au999.99:surprise:
> Top sheet graphic looks very sweet.
> 
> https://www.rhythmsnowsports.com.au/2020-endeavor-archetype-snowboard-137061.html
> 
> Makes my '19 Archetype I grabbed for $Au490 from Hyper Ride NZ seem like the bargain of the year.


I've been watching the prices drop on HR for the past few months waiting for the right time to buy one but now I have bought 3 new boards this year already since the sales have been so good. So I'll just have to have a ride on my mates new archetype instead.


----------



## Craig64

JDA said:


> I've been watching the prices drop on HR for the past few months waiting for the right time to buy one but now I have bought 3 new boards this year already since the sales have been so good. So I'll just have to have a ride on my mates new archetype instead.


Yep the '20 looks pretty good with red channel and hot graphics. Wait till the after season sales.


----------



## sush1

Craig51 said:


> In Furano presently, last day before heading to Niseko for a week. Been an epic amount of snow, 10 to 15cm a day. I brought 3 boards over with me, 163 Dump Truck, 162 Archetype and 161 fish. Yesterday I had a full day on the Archetype in the powder. It was super cold at windchill -35C and managed a little frostbite on nose as I was hammering it home. Well this board went pretty good. Very surfy when you're in the powder. So easy to slash the tail around and change direction on the float. My only one gripe about the Archetype is I wish it was slightly longer for me being around 97kg/191cm kitted up. I have Genesis EST fully to the rear on front foot which is only about -10 and -20 on the rear foot. You notice when driving through untracked the nose sitting a bit low in front even though I'm leaning back slightly. I think I've been a little spoilt with how great the fish has performed. Back out off the powder onto the piste the Archetype feels soooo good as a solid carver. 1st bluebird day outside today at -23C. I wonder what board I will take out today???
> 
> Just looked out window again heavy cloud coming over......., shit more snow again.


I think the difference might be mostly in the sizing. Fish is supposed to be downsized and a-type rides small.

For me I rode it on reference and it was unsinkable in bottomless pow with me standing centered.


----------



## JDA

Just got back from a 4 day snow trip, rode my mates 158 Archetype with Burton Base X bindings while he sat inside and had a hot chocolate. Anyway this board blew me away with how unique it rides, I was only riding groomers but it was so much fun! the way it changes direction it almost feels like you are riding in pow but then you can drive it hard and it will lock in for a carve.

The minute we got back to the apartment I jumped online and bought myself a 158.


----------



## Craig64

JDA said:


> Just got back from a 4 day snow trip, rode my mates 158 Archetype with Burton Base X bindings while he sat inside and had a hot chocolate. Anyway this board blew me away with how unique it rides, I was only riding groomers but it was so much fun! the way it changes direction it almost feels like you are riding in pow but then you can drive it hard and it will lock in for a carve.
> 
> The minute we got back to the apartment I jumped online and bought myself a 158.


I have this same feel about the Archetype. It's absolutely flawless and rips as an all mountain/freeride board. They have a few '18 models at Hyper-ride for $NZ499 (free delivery this weekend). 

However the '20 looks pretty damn sweet with the red channel though.


----------



## JDA

Craig51 said:


> I have this same feel about the Archetype. It's absolutely flawless and rips as an all mountain/freeride board. They have a few '18 models at Hyper-ride for $NZ499 (free delivery this weekend).
> 
> However the '20 looks pretty damn sweet with the red channel though.


Yes I got it from Hyper-ride, $20 sign on voucher and a free shipping sale on the weekend meant I end up paying $450 AUD delivered to my door 

The big challenge now will be deciding which 3 boards to take to Japan next year.


----------



## Craig64

JDA said:


> Yes I got it from Hyper-ride, $20 sign on voucher and a free shipping sale on the weekend meant I end up paying $450 AUD delivered to my door
> 
> The big challenge now will be deciding which 3 boards to take to Japan next year.


Great deal.


----------



## powderjunkie

geeze.... i was all set on picking up a mind expander as my tree powder board.... now i kinda want to pick up an archtype.


----------



## F1EA

powderjunkie said:


> geeze.... i was all set on picking up a mind expander as my tree powder board.... now i kinda want to pick up an archtype.


the Archetype is great as a tree powder board. Not as excellent or nimble as other more tree-friendly boards (or less freeride-oriented boards)... but for how good it is at speed and on groomers, the tiny little sacrifice in tighter trees is worth it.

Mind Expander looks like a excellent tree powder board. Archetype is for sure more of an all-arounder. So if you have other freeride-type boards, then the Mind Exp is good... if you just want a single board to deal with everything, the AT is good.

For me, the 158 Archetype sits between a 152 Panhandler and a 158 Dump Truck. (PH = fun tree powder board, DT = stable speed powder board)


----------



## Craig64

powderjunkie said:


> geeze.... i was all set on picking up a mind expander as my tree powder board.... now i kinda want to pick up an archtype.


You know the answer to this dilemma......., buy both


----------



## frankyfc

Craig51 said:


> Last day in Niseko today so I thought I'd end the holiday with a big day on the Archetype. Had around 10 to 15cm in the last 24 hours so plenty of fresh powder available. Been riding my 161 Fish most of the time, really love this board.
> 
> Did a number of decent drops into some uncharted zones. The Archetype worked well here so I ventured down for a few runs under the chairs where the untracked powder lay. So the Archetype to me feels way more comfortable as a freeride board than a true power slayer which left me a little disapointed as I was expecting more in the soft stuff from her. It can do powder areas comfortably but it doesn't fill me with the abundant joy I have with the Fish. In my mind it's very similar to my Dump Truck but probably carves slightly better where as the DT enjoys the powder a bit more. They're both really pretty close to each other. I find I get the most joy out of the Archetype out on the groomers. Next year I've put in an order for a '20 Bataleon Surfer to bring over.


Damn - so i was looking to pull the trigger on an archetype as my japan powder board for 2020. However Japan 2018 I rode a fish and it was incredible. I've found a 2020 demo archetype for 40% off retail which is what tempted me but sounds like i'll be disappointed compared to picking up another fish?


----------



## frankyfc

F1EA said:


> the Archetype is great as a tree powder board. Not as excellent or nimble as other more tree-friendly boards (or less freeride-oriented boards)... but for how good it is at speed and on groomers, the tiny little sacrifice in tighter trees is worth it.
> 
> Mind Expander looks like a excellent tree powder board. Archetype is for sure more of an all-arounder. So if you have other freeride-type boards, then the Mind Exp is good... if you just want a single board to deal with everything, the AT is good.
> 
> For me, the 158 Archetype sits between a 152 Panhandler and a 158 Dump Truck. (PH = fun tree powder board, DT = stable speed powder board)


What are these more tree-friendly boards you speak of?
Having experienced japan - i know for a fact it'll be a lot (mostly) tree runs so don't wanna make an error with the archetype.


----------



## F1EA

frankyfc said:


> What are these more tree-friendly boards you speak of?
> Having experienced japan - i know for a fact it'll be a lot (mostly) tree runs so don't wanna make an error with the archetype.


For sure Panhandler, Fish, Stun Gun... 
Then boards like Mind Expander, Storm Chaser, and most short effective edge, tight sidecut, heavy tapered, short tail, mid flex kind of board.

Pretty much anything that is excellent on bigger open faces, is not going to be excellent in tight trees. Whether you NEED excellent for either it's a different thing. I'm pretty sure if I had to ride an Archetype in Japan and/or trees, I'd be fine. Much better in trees than Dump Truck, Cheetah, Dupraz, etc.


----------



## frankyfc

F1EA said:


> For sure Panhandler, Fish, Stun Gun...
> Then boards like Mind Expander, Storm Chaser, and most short effective edge, tight sidecut, heavy tapered, short tail, mid flex kind of board.
> 
> Pretty much anything that is excellent on bigger open faces, is not going to be excellent in tight trees. Whether you NEED excellent for either it's a different thing. I'm pretty sure if I had to ride an Archetype in Japan and/or trees, I'd be fine. Much better in trees than Dump Truck, Cheetah, Dupraz, etc.


Oh for sure in japan i NEED excellent. :grin: Having paid $$$$ to get out there and on accommodation i plan to ride the worlds best powder on hopefully the best board for the job.
I rode a day of japan powder on a capita doa 154 (due to broken powder deck :frown: ) and it was manageable but getting a new fish the day after was a whole world of difference.


----------



## JDA

frankyfc said:


> Damn - so i was looking to pull the trigger on an archetype as my japan powder board for 2020. However Japan 2018 I rode a fish and it was incredible. I've found a 2020 demo archetype for 40% off retail which is what tempted me but sounds like i'll be disappointed compared to picking up another fish?


You should just buy the Archetype anyway, it's just such a unique and fun thing to ride you will not regret it. I have 7 boards in my quiver and I if I had to sell them all and just keep one of them I would probably keep the Archetype.

I'm taking mine to Japan next year along with my Arbor Terrapin and possibly one other board.


----------



## F1EA

frankyfc said:


> Oh for sure in japan i NEED excellent. :grin: Having paid $$$$ to get out there and on accommodation i plan to ride the worlds best powder on hopefully the best board for the job.
> I rode a day of japan powder on a capita doa 154 (due to broken powder deck :frown: ) and it was manageable but getting a new fish the day after was a whole world of difference.


Oh so you already have a Fish? 

If so, then Archetype is a great complement. Will be a lot better on groomers and on steeper stuff. Great for a single board quiver/travel board too.

Fish is awesome, but if you get skunked and there's no pow then you will be less than excellent with a Fish only.

See them here:


----------



## Craig64

I've said this a fair few times before. You are going to one of the best places for powder/snow in the world, so you need to cover ALL the bases. There is no one board that will "Excel" in every condition/terrain. They will have +/- depending on the characteristics of their design. So my strong advice would be to take 1. a powder specific board, 2. a freeride Board and if you have a bluebird day 3. an all mountain board (the freeride board could cover this aspect).

The Archetype is a superb board but from my experiences....., it's an impressive freeride board. The Fish on the other hand is an absolutely brilliant powder board.

So that would be the fish, the Archetype and whatever is your cambered all mountain ride.

Thank me when you return:wink:


----------



## frankyfc

F1EA said:


> frankyfc said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh for sure in japan i NEED excellent. <img src="http://www.snowboardingforum.com/images/SnowboardingForum_2015/smilies/tango_face_grin.png" border="0" alt="" title="Big Grin" class="inlineimg" /> Having paid $$$$ to get out there and on accommodation i plan to ride the worlds best powder on hopefully the best board for the job.
> I rode a day of japan powder on a capita doa 154 (due to broken powder deck <img src="http://www.snowboardingforum.com/images/SnowboardingForum_2015/smilies/tango_face_sad.png" border="0" alt="" title="Frown" class="inlineimg" /> ) and it was manageable but getting a new fish the day after was a whole world of difference.
> 
> 
> 
> Oh so you already have a Fish?
> 
> If so, then Archetype is a great complement. Will be a lot better on groomers and on steeper stuff. Great for a single board quiver/travel board too.
> 
> Fish is awesome, but if you get skunked and there's no pow then you will be less than excellent with a Fish only.
> 
> See them here:
Click to expand...

Unfortunately I no longer have the fish. I hit a tree stump whilst riding backcountry and cracked the whole centre of the board ? 

If they’re releasing one this year I’ll probably have to buy it. Just considering alternate powder options for japan but feel I may be disappointed compared to a fish. Thought of the archetype but don’t think it’s powder specific enough for japan - good for the French alpes though 



Craig51 said:


> I've said this a fair few times before. You are going to one of the best places for powder/snow in the world, so you need to cover ALL the bases. There is no one board that will "Excel" in every condition/terrain. They will have +/- depending on the characteristics of their design. So my strong advice would be to take 1. a powder specific board, 2. a freeride Board and if you have a bluebird day 3. an all mountain board (the freeride board could cover this aspect).
> 
> The Archetype is a superb board but from my experiences....., it's an impressive freeride board. The Fish on the other hand is an absolutely brilliant powder board.
> 
> So that would be the fish, the Archetype and whatever is your cambered all mountain ride.
> 
> Thank me when you return<img src="http://www.snowboardingforum.com/images/SnowboardingForum_2015/smilies/tango_face_wink.png" border="0" alt="" title="Wink" class="inlineimg" />


Thanks. Great suggestion. Unfortunately don’t plan on taking 3 boards all the way to japan and also don’t have the finances for it - I currently have zero boards having sold everything for a house move. Now building a quiver again! I tend to go with two boards - an all mountain and a powder. Any non-powder days an all mountain board can handle easily - park/groomers etc. feel like the archetype may have an unnecessary amount of crossover with that and I can just use an all mountain stick when the powder isn’t falling? 
Then on a powder day would always look for the powder board even if there’s only a few inches. 

In 2018 I brought a fish and a burton custom. Rode the fish 13 out of 14 days - even when there was less powder. Worked out fine and meant I knew how to ride the fish pretty well when the powder fell. 

One option I have is the place I’m going has some Rossignol sashimi boards on standby for guests to use - so I could possibly go archetype and an all mountain. But don’t see when I would ride the archetype necessarily?


----------



## F1EA

I see what you mean.

Archetype is great; it does not feel the same as the Fish in powder though. However, in every other condition, it feels better than the Fish. But as you said... it's Japan... so gotta be excellent in powder. Stuff like Bottom Feeder, Sashimi, Storm Chaser, Mind Expander, etc. Specially if you also bring a regular all mtn type board... Archetype you can bring just that one and be golden.

I would put the Archetype close to the Dump Truck, except that the Atype is actually playful. Despite being great for freeride and speed, it is playful too, which is somewhat rare. The DT is all business. Aggressive.


----------



## robotfood99

F1EA said:


> I would put the Archetype close to the Dump Truck, except that the Atype is actually playful. Despite being great for freeride and speed, it is playful too, which is somewhat rare. The DT is all business. Aggressive.


This:iagree:

I took these exact two board to Niseko last year. Rode the Arch almost exclusively, only took out the DT on the last day because I wanted to justify bringing it. 

I ride the Arch a size smaller than I should. I ought to be on the 158 for max float but own the 154 because of a killer deal. Not how one should choose gear but in this case it’s still enough to float my 155lb and super fun to mess around on. For me its a pow loving all mtn board, the perfect soft pow-to-mixed conditions board. When it comes time to replace it, it will probably be with a 158 just to see if/how much the characteristics change.


----------



## powderjunkie

Surprised no one has mentioned the Lib Tech Orca in here. Obviously it floats insanely well but also has the camber under foot and magnetraction of groomers or sketchy situations. Angrysnowboarder has a good review of it on YouTube.


----------



## frankyfc

F1EA said:


> I see what you mean.
> 
> Archetype is great; it does not feel the same as the Fish in powder though. However, in every other condition, it feels better than the Fish. But as you said... it's Japan... so gotta be excellent in powder. Stuff like Bottom Feeder, Sashimi, Storm Chaser, Mind Expander, etc. Specially if you also bring a regular all mtn type board... Archetype you can bring just that one and be golden.
> 
> I would put the Archetype close to the Dump Truck, except that the Atype is actually playful. Despite being great for freeride and speed, it is playful too, which is somewhat rare. The DT is all business. Aggressive.


Think this hits the nail on the head.
Its Japaaaaaan - need to have the most powdery powder board ever. Feel like i should basically be waiting for the fish to be released? I do have access to a sashimi whilst there which is presume will be a good ride but not sure i'm able to give up on the majestic fish. Never fancied the storm chaser as too little tail... Much like i rode the sushi last year - turns on a dime but no pop or tail whatsoever


----------



## Craig64

frankyfc said:


> F1EA said:
> 
> 
> 
> I see what you mean.
> 
> Archetype is great; it does not feel the same as the Fish in powder though. However, in every other condition, it feels better than the Fish. But as you said... it's Japan... so gotta be excellent in powder. Stuff like Bottom Feeder, Sashimi, Storm Chaser, Mind Expander, etc. Specially if you also bring a regular all mtn type board... Archetype you can bring just that one and be golden.
> 
> I would put the Archetype close to the Dump Truck, except that the Atype is actually playful. Despite being great for freeride and speed, it is playful too, which is somewhat rare. The DT is all business. Aggressive.
> 
> 
> 
> Think this hits the nail on the head.
> Its Japaaaaaan - need to have the most powdery powder board ever. Feel like i should basically be waiting for the fish to be released? I do have access to a sashimi whilst there which is presume will be a good ride but not sure i'm able to give up on the majestic fish. Never fancied the storm chaser as too little tail... Much like i rode the sushi last year - turns on a dime but no pop or tail whatsoever
Click to expand...

Surely you can grab a pretty mint 2nd hand Fish in the US Of A. This would tie you over until a new release from Burton. I have a courier account and it's the equivalent of $US10 to mail out or receive a snowboard in Australia. 

I love my fish. So looking forward to giving it a side by side comparison with my surfer next year in Hokkaido powder.


----------



## robotfood99

powderjunkie said:


> Surprised no one has mentioned the Lib Tech Orca in here. Obviously it floats insanely well but also has the camber under foot and magnetraction of groomers or sketchy situations. Angrysnowboarder has a good review of it on YouTube.


Probably because the Archetype and the Orca ride differently enough? I own both (153 Orca, 154 Arch; 155lbs US8 boots) and I would put it this way - (to paraphrase T. Rice and his "not a gutless fish" analogy) if Orca is the apex predator with that kicked up whale tail, the Archetype is a fast and spirited dolphin. Orca feels powerful, Arch feels nimble. That's what registers in my head when I go back and forth between these two.


----------



## powderjunkie

robotfood99 said:


> Probably because the Archetype and the Orca ride differently enough? I own both (153 Orca, 154 Arch; 155lbs US8 boots) and I would put it this way - (to paraphrase T. Rice and his "not a gutless fish" analogy) if Orca is the apex predator with that kicked up whale tail, the Archetype is a fast and spirited dolphin. Orca feels powerful, Arch feels nimble. That's what registers in my head when I go back and forth between these two.


I was told the opposite which was why i went with the Orca over the Archtype. Basically Orca is the better in tight trees and Archtype is going to be better in the wide open powder. Though at this point i think it is splitting hairs lol.


----------



## robotfood99

powderjunkie said:


> I was told the opposite which was why i went with the Orca over the Archtype. Basically Orca is the better in tight trees and Archtype is going to be better in the wide open powder. Though at this point i think it is splitting hairs lol.


Yes, that's why mentioned my sizes for the two. In my case the two are about the same length, and taking into account that I got the Arch in a shorter size than I am normally accustomed to, I think the feel of the boards are reversed. They both are excellent on both types of terrain. For me the Arch is easier to toss around than the Orca, that's all.


----------



## theprocess

A bit off topic but where does the Rome Powder Div MT fit in compared to Fish, Archetype and Orca?


----------



## Doraibu

frankyfc said:


> F1EA said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> frankyfc said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh for sure in japan i NEED excellent. <img src="http://www.snowboardingforum.com/images/SnowboardingForum_2015/smilies/tango_face_grin.png" border="0" alt="" title="Big Grin" class="inlineimg" /> Having paid $$$$ to get out there and on accommodation i plan to ride the worlds best powder on hopefully the best board for the job.
> I rode a day of japan powder on a capita doa 154 (due to broken powder deck <img src="http://www.snowboardingforum.com/images/SnowboardingForum_2015/smilies/tango_face_sad.png" border="0" alt="" title="Frown" class="inlineimg" /> ) and it was manageable but getting a new fish the day after was a whole world of difference.
> 
> 
> 
> Oh so you already have a Fish?
> 
> If so, then Archetype is a great complement. Will be a lot better on groomers and on steeper stuff. Great for a single board quiver/travel board too.
> 
> Fish is awesome, but if you get skunked and there's no pow then you will be less than excellent with a Fish only.
> 
> See them here:
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Unfortunately I no longer have the fish. I hit a tree stump whilst riding backcountry and cracked the whole centre of the board ?
> 
> If they’re releasing one this year I’ll probably have to buy it. Just considering alternate powder options for japan but feel I may be disappointed compared to a fish. Thought of the archetype but don’t think it’s powder specific enough for japan - good for the French alpes though
> 
> 
> 
> Craig51 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've said this a fair few times before. You are going to one of the best places for powder/snow in the world, so you need to cover ALL the bases. There is no one board that will "Excel" in every condition/terrain. They will have +/- depending on the characteristics of their design. So my strong advice would be to take 1. a powder specific board, 2. a freeride Board and if you have a bluebird day 3. an all mountain board (the freeride board could cover this aspect).
> 
> The Archetype is a superb board but from my experiences....., it's an impressive freeride board. The Fish on the other hand is an absolutely brilliant powder board.
> 
> So that would be the fish, the Archetype and whatever is your cambered all mountain ride.
> 
> Thank me when you return<img src="http://www.snowboardingforum.com/images/SnowboardingForum_2015/smilies/tango_face_wink.png" border="0" alt="" title="Wink" class="inlineimg" />
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Thanks. Great suggestion. Unfortunately don’t plan on taking 3 boards all the way to japan and also don’t have the finances for it - I currently have zero boards having sold everything for a house move. Now building a quiver again! I tend to go with two boards - an all mountain and a powder. Any non-powder days an all mountain board can handle easily - park/groomers etc. feel like the archetype may have an unnecessary amount of crossover with that and I can just use an all mountain stick when the powder isn’t falling?
> Then on a powder day would always look for the powder board even if there’s only a few inches.
> 
> In 2018 I brought a fish and a burton custom. Rode the fish 13 out of 14 days - even when there was less powder. Worked out fine and meant I knew how to ride the fish pretty well when the powder fell.
> 
> One option I have is the place I’m going has some Rossignol sashimi boards on standby for guests to use - so I could possibly go archetype and an all mountain. But don’t see when I would ride the archetype necessarily?
Click to expand...

Have you considered a Moss or gemtemstick? You’re looking for a board for Japan so why not get a board designed for Japow?

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/...c58pTDvbR881So9svoa7KvTZxdqZbXxMvY6DqNb6U1Bl8


https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/...Rxuxe-7xv2sjqC1c9H00/WINGSW57.jpg?format=300w

Not exactly the same but the tail for the wing swallow looks somewhat similar to the fish. swallow tail that’s smaller than the running edge giving the bump outside the tail look.


----------



## F1EA

theprocess said:


> A bit off topic but where does the Rome Powder Div MT fit in compared to Fish, Archetype and Orca?


I remember Nivek talked about the Rome a couple months back on a similar topic... don't remember where that is now hah but maybe they talk about it in the Angry Snowboarder reviews?


----------



## theprocess

F1EA said:


> I remember Nivek talked about the Rome a couple months back on a similar topic... don't remember where that is now hah but maybe they talk about it in the Angry Snowboarder reviews?


Kevin's top 5 powder boards...Orca #4 ...Rome PDMT #1 .


----------



## BC Snowbeard

Buying myself a 162 Archetype this season - beyond stoked to get on it and let rip after reading all the hype!

Only question: what bindings should I look to pair with it?
I have a pair of 2018 Rome Katanas, but I'm tempted to grab some EST bindings to max out the Archetype's design. 
How much of a difference is there between the Genesis and Genesis X bindings? 
If the difference is negligible, I can likely score a good deal on a set of 2019 Genesis, but would have to spring for 2020 Genesis X. 

I've got Size 9 Maysis Wide boots, and will probably be about 190-200lbs @ 6'1" going into the season.


----------



## Craig64

BC Snowbeard said:


> Buying myself a 162 Archetype this season - beyond stoked to get on it and let rip after reading all the hype!
> 
> Only question: what bindings should I look to pair with it?
> I have a pair of 2018 Rome Katanas, but I'm tempted to grab some EST bindings to max out the Archetype's design.
> How much of a difference is there between the Genesis and Genesis X bindings?
> If the difference is negligible, I can likely score a good deal on a set of 2019 Genesis, but would have to spring for 2020 Genesis X.
> 
> I've got Size 9 Maysis Wide boots, and will probably be about 190-200lbs @ 6'1" going into the season.


I have both Gen and Gen X in both est and reflex. For Archetype the 
Genesis est would fit in perfectly as it's primary a freeride/powder board. I use Gen X on my CX...., a little bit more responsive and springbeds work pretty well.


----------



## JDA

I have now pilots on mine but I rode my friends board with x-base est and it was so good, that super thin pad under your boot coupled with the stiff carbon high back just felt so precise.


----------



## Craig64

JDA said:


> I have now pilots on mine but I rode my friends board with x-base est and it was so good, that super thin pad under your boot coupled with the stiff carbon high back just felt so precise.


 yep no holding back with X-base. They have a very thin footbed though.


----------



## JDA

JDA said:


> I have now pilots on mine but I rode my friends board with x-base est and it was so good, that super thin pad under your boot coupled with the stiff carbon high back just felt so precise.


Quoting myself here, could not stop thinking about the X base and how good they felt on the archetype and then I found a pair of the 2018 model in my size for 40% off so I jumped on them. These things are pure porn, can't wait for Japan!


----------



## Craig64

JDA said:


> Quoting myself here, could not stop thinking about the X base and how good they felt on the archetype and then I found a pair of the 2018 model in my size for 40% off so I jumped on them. These things are pure porn, can't wait for Japan!


Where did you grab them from? What size?


----------



## JDA

Craig51 said:


> Where did you grab them from? What size?


Size medium from Balmoral Boards. I think Rhythm have size large going for the same price.


----------



## smellysell

I really want to try some stiffer bindings on my Maverick than the cartels this year. Thinking maybe Nows of some sort. 

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


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## Yeahti87

Good job you guys and Angry hyping it, I couldn’t resist and fucking pulled a trigger on a 160W 2020 (185-190 lbs, 9,5/10 US). A binding question now - I have Union Falcors - do you think they will match the Archetype? I’m pretty sure I need quite responsive bindings for that width. Or should I look for a pair of Genesis/Gen X EST? I want the Arche to take one of the 2 spots for pow and freeride in my quiver so it needs to be optimized.


----------



## F1EA

Damian Łach said:


> A binding question now - I have Union Falcors - do you think they will match the Archetype? I’m pretty sure I need quite responsive bindings for that width. Or should I look for a pair of Genesis/Gen X EST?


Can't see how any of those wouldn't work. For sure Falcors and Genesis X are a good match. Genesis depends more on how you like bindings to feel (ie do you prefer softer feeling bindings?) and what conditions you wanna ride the board in.... Genesis would be good in powder. Falcors and GenX will be good for anything.

I have Genesis X est on the Archetype. Have also used Diodes est and reflex Genesis, I think I also used Flux SF. All work... but best overall to me is Genesis X. I could keep the Diodes on the Archetype and it's fine too, but I have them on a Dump Truck which kinda prefers the stiffer bindings. So yeah... Falcors or Genesis X = good.


----------



## coloradodirtbag

I rock vitas on my 160W archetype for a surfy feel


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## Yeahti87

Thanks a lot for the replies, I think I will stick to the Falcors then. I could possibly grab a 50 % off Burton X-Base but it looks like the Falcors will do the job.
I gear whored hard during this summer and thinking now how to set up my quiver.
But I don’t think I can part with that beauty and her camber ?


----------



## Yeahti87

+ 1 to the hype from me. 

Yesterday first day on snow this season on Mercury 157 2020. I was rusty and the board felt quite aggressive, need to test it more. So far I feel it is noticeably more aggressive than Rossi One LF.

Today a total blast on the Archetype 160W plus Katanas 2019 from the first turn. It’s all what has been said about it, feels like a predominantly freeride board. And yeah, it is actually not that bad switch lol (even with these binding angles and the setback). 
The surprise was how easy it is to skid turns around with that much camber. Rode it 21 / -3 with 58 cm stance, 2 cm setback like most advised to do. And I was still a bit rusty and weak legged today after a second day 7 hours.

It fuckin (en)devours the groomers



http://imgur.com/a/oVTsekj


Already love it


----------



## Jkb818

145lbs and size 9 boot....154 archetype the right call?


----------



## F1EA

Jkb818 said:


> 145lbs and size 9 boot....154 archetype the right call?


yup


----------



## Jkb818

F1EA said:


> yup


cool thanks


----------



## Jkb818

Boom! Can’t wait to ride it.


----------



## ridethecliche

I DON'T NEED ANOTHER BOARD
I DON'T NEED ANOTHER BOARD
I DON'T NEED ANOTHER BOARD
I DON'T NEED ANOTHER BOARD
I DON'T NEED ANOTHER BOARD
I DON'T NEED ANOTHER BOARD
I DON'T NEED ANOTHER BOARD
I DON'T NEED ANOTHER BOARD
I DON'T NEED ANOTHER BOARD
I DON'T NEED ANOTHER BOARD


----------



## Jkb818

ridethecliche said:


> I DON'T NEED ANOTHER BOARD
> I DON'T NEED ANOTHER BOARD
> I DON'T NEED ANOTHER BOARD
> I DON'T NEED ANOTHER BOARD
> I DON'T NEED ANOTHER BOARD
> I DON'T NEED ANOTHER BOARD
> I DON'T NEED ANOTHER BOARD
> I DON'T NEED ANOTHER BOARD
> I DON'T NEED ANOTHER BOARD
> I DON'T NEED ANOTHER BOARD


----------



## ridethecliche

That tail looks like a damn taser tip


----------



## Jkb818

ridethecliche said:


> That tail looks like a damn taser tip


?


----------



## Jkb818

First day out on the snow with the Archetype and loving it so far. Just took some mellow runs with my son. However my early observations are it carved beautifully, super fast base, very nimble and great pop. For my style of riding this board feels perfect. The next test will be riding it harder on more advanced terrain and some powder days.


----------



## Craig64

Jkb818 said:


> First day out on the snow with the Archetype and loving it so far. Just took some mellow runs with my son. However my early observations are it carved beautifully, super fast base, very nimble and great pop. For my style of riding this board feels perfect. The next test will be riding it harder on more advanced terrain and some powder days.


Just set it back in the powder ie get the front foot to the rear. The EA is not as aggressively directional than I'd wish for. It's a great board for carving and bouncing in and out of powder pockets. Great seeing you're enjoying it.


----------



## Jkb818

Craig51 said:


> Just set it back in the powder ie get the front foot to the rear. The EA is not as aggressively directional than I'd wish for. It's a great board for carving and bouncing in and out of powder pockets. Great seeing you're enjoying it.


Yeah I remembered reading you saying that. I could see the EA being my daily driver IF it doesn’t deliver the pow performance I want and adding a Sushi or Fish 3D to the quiver for pure pow hunting days. We shall see...


----------



## Yeahti87

Jkb818 said:


> Yeah I remembered reading you saying that. I could see the EA being my daily driver IF it doesn’t deliver the pow performance I want and adding a Sushi or Fish 3D to the quiver for pure pow hunting days. We shall see...


It does deliver in powder, it is very good there, just not as great as the shape would suggest. There are just better powder boards out there. I’ve ridden my Optimistic 154 for the first time last weekend in a half a meter of fresh powder and that one outfloats the Archetype for sure, even centered.


----------



## Jkb818

Yeahti87 said:


> It does deliver in powder, it is very good there, just not as great as the shape would suggest. There are just better powder boards out there. I’ve ridden my Optimistic 154 for the first time last weekend in a half a meter of fresh powder and that one outfloats the Archetype for sure, even centered.


How do you think it compares to a burton skeleton key?


----------



## JDA

I haven't taken mine in powder yet, 3 more weeks until Japan but I'd imagine it comes alive with speed, not the sort of powder board you would go slow on.


----------



## Yeahti87

Jkb818 said:


> How do you think it compares to a burton skeleton key?


I haven’t ridden the Skeleton Key.



JDA said:


> I haven't taken mine in powder yet, 3 more weeks until Japan but I'd imagine it comes alive with speed, not the sort of powder board you would go slow on.


Exactly.


----------



## Jkb818

On plus side I don’t have EST bindings so I can move them back further.


----------



## Yeahti87

Jkb818 said:


> On plus side I don’t have EST bindings so I can move them back further.


It will deliver for sure. @Craig51 posted somewhere that you would be a little disappointed if you bought it as a full powder slayer and I agree with that. But buy it as a quite playful versatile freeride powder board (what I did based on the feedback on this forum) and you will love it like I do.


----------



## Jkb818

Did some more product testing today. This board really is terrific for free riding. Zero complaints. Nothing but love! Should dump this week so that will be its final test.


----------



## F1EA

Jkb818 said:


> How do you think it compares to a burton skeleton key?


Archetype feels a lot more twin. More poppy. It's wider and slightly slower edge to edge. Floats more. It's a playful freeride/powder board.

Skeleton Key is pretty damp (I think it's the dampest Burton board I've ridden). Feels a lot more directional. Great edge hold. A bit more agile. It's a...... freeride/groomer board that's ok in powder.


----------



## Jkb818

Yeah I agree that the EA is more lively feeling than the SK for sure. So far I actually think the EA is also a bit quicker edge to edge.


----------



## F1EA

Jkb818 said:


> Yeah I agree that the EA is more lively feeling than the SK for sure. So far I actually think the EA is also a bit quicker edge to edge.


Yeah the Archetype is a bit softer torsionally and has a longer sidecut, so it feels a bit less twitchy. The SK is damp but the tighter radius and setback make it come in and out of turns more sharply. Maybe that's what I'm getting at with the difference in edge to edge...


----------



## Jkb818

F1EA said:


> Yeah the Archetype is a bit softer torsionally and has a longer sidecut, so it feels a bit less twitchy. The SK is damp but the tighter radius and setback make it come in and out of turns more sharply. Maybe that's what I'm getting at with the difference in edge to edge...


makes sense!


----------



## Jkb818

More EA testing today. Board continues to impress. Definitely great for bombing through the woods!


----------



## Yeahti87

¯\_(ツ)_/¯


----------



## Jkb818

Yeahti87 said:


> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
> View attachment 152002


Bought a new one?


----------



## Yeahti87

Jkb818 said:


> Bought a new one?


With all the constant buys, tests and sells I’m sure I’ll keep an Arche in my quiver so I need to have the best size for me. If I had 10,5 plus I wouldn’t even think about checking 162 but I have 27,8 cm longer foot and 28 and 27,5 cm Tacticals (these are a bit painful but should pack out more). I feel like 160W could be 0,5 cm narrower for me but I cannot boot out on the 162. Gonna sell one after riding them one by one now.


----------



## Jkb818

I’m a size 9 boots so 154 seems to work fine for me although a 154 wide would be pretty cool


----------



## Yeahti87

Jkb818 said:


> I’m a size 9 boots so 154 seems to work fine for me although a 154 wide would be pretty cool


I like wider boards too, I have 4 which are over 270 mm at the inserts. The thing with Arche is this 3 cm taper. I’m 100 % happy with that backfoot width on 160W but I’d like a bit less on the front one.


----------



## Jkb818

Rode the EA in waist deep today and I see what you guys mean...I’m going to have to move the bindings back a bit and see if that helps. I see a Sushi or Fish in my future though....


----------



## Jkb818

Any downside to moving the bindings all the way back and just leaving them like that even on days where I’m not riding in powder? Even after doing that it still seems like the bindings are not as setback as my Burton skeleton key and Jones hovercraft.


----------



## Phedder

Jkb818 said:


> Any downside to moving the bindings all the way back and just leaving them like that even on days where I’m not riding in powder? Even after doing that it still seems like the bindings are not as setback as my Burton skeleton key and Jones hovercraft.


Throws you pretty far back on the sidecut for carving, too close to the torsionally soft split tail in my experience. I think I had mine set back an extra 2cm or so from reference, and there was plenty of room to move it further back still. I recall a few powder days where I'd leave the backfoot where it was and bring the front binding back an inch, going from a 23" stance to a 22" stance for powder. Still get more nose but don't lose any tail for landing drops and carving between pow stashes. 

It's definitely a board you can really play around with your stance and positioning to see what you prefer, small changes don't make it go from fantastic to horrible like my Warpig did... setting the stance back on that ruined it on groomers as the sidecut is already so tight it just felt super twitchy.


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## Jkb818

@Phedder i'm fairly short and dont ride a super wide stance. so i have the front foot back about a far as it can go and the back finding still could go further. should i take some pics to show you?


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## Phedder

Pics wouldn't hurt, but sounds like pushing your back binding more towards the tail might widen your stance too much then?


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## Jkb818

View attachment 152057


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## Yeahti87

From my experience a little setback like 2 cm works better both in pow and on groomers, even though I usually prefer to be centered on the sidecut and keep the reference stance on all my boards but Archetype.


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## Jkb818




----------



## F1EA

Yep, no problems with 2cm extra setback. That's exactly how I have it mounted too.


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## Jkb818

Rode further back today and definite improvement. Also no lack of performance when charging on groomers.


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## Jkb818




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## Jkb818




----------



## t21

Phedder said:


> Throws you pretty far back on the sidecut for carving, too close to the torsionally soft split tail in my experience. I think I had mine set back an extra 2cm or so from reference, and there was plenty of room to move it further back still. I recall a few powder days where I'd leave the backfoot where it was and bring the front binding back an inch, going from a 23" stance to a 22" stance for powder. Still get more nose but don't lose any tail for landing drops and carving between pow stashes.
> 
> It's definitely a board you can really play around with your stance and positioning to see what you prefer, _small changes don't make it go from fantastic to horrible like my Warpig did... setting the stance back on that ruined it on groomers as the sidecut is already so tight it just felt super twitchy._


I had to adjust my stance on warpig a year ago or so when my nose sinks on powder and slowed me down.I had it set at 23" width i think and centered. I moved my front binding one hole back and it did the trick,did not affect groomer riding either.


----------



## JDA

Greetings from Japan!


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## Jkb818

JDA said:


> Greetings from Japan!
> 
> View attachment 152219


Get an Japow?


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## JDA

Jkb818 said:


> Get an Japow?


First day was great but nothing but groomers since then. I'm here for almost 3 weeks so hopefully we get something in that time, it has not been the usual conditions in Japan.


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## Yeahti87

From what I see in the news Canada is the new Japan now.


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## JDA

Loving the X base EST on the archetype, super responsive with the way that the shape of the highback and strap combine to lock your ankles in, they really conform to the shape of my boot. Leaves no movement other than how I want to flex the board.


----------



## F1EA

JDA said:


> Loving the X base EST on the archetype, super responsive with the way that the shape of the highback and strap combine to lock your ankles in, they really conform to the shape of my boot. Leaves no movement other than how I want to flex the board.
> 
> View attachment 152322


Geez. I had Diodes on mine for a while, but I think it was a bit too much. Only a little; they were fine, but the Diodes belong better on my Dump Truck. With the width and sidecut, you can put stiff bindings with no problem. Then with the flex and tail, you can put softer stuff and it's also fine.

But Genesis X on the Atype are awesome. They were the 1st bindings i put on it, then after trying a few others went back to GenX.


----------



## JDA

I was riding it with now pilots previously which were a different feel but also good, they are on my simple pleasures now so I have 2 boards ready to go over here in Japan.


----------



## F1EA

JDA said:


> I was riding it with now pilots previously which were a different feel but also good, they are on my simple pleasures now so I have 2 boards ready to go over here in Japan.


Yep, i rode it with Pilots as well. And exactly as you say... a different feel but still good. Rode it with Malavitas and Now drive too. To me, Malavitas were the worst, but it's me... i don't like Malavitas that much.


----------



## JDA

I wanted to leave my thoughts on taking my 158 Archetype out in knee deep Japow after an overnight storm. At 85kg or 187lbs I'm leaning toward the upper weight range of this board but still well within the range. I didn't change my normal stance, I ride it at reference but slightly nudged in a bit equally at each end as I have short legs. I usually prefer to ride boards as close to reference as possible.

We got to the resort early and lined up for the top chair which has the steepest runs and they don't groom, I've been there before and knew the drill and where to go. Lined up for 20 minutes and I think we were about 10 - 15 people back in the queue. First run down was the best, big undulating rollers, pretty steep in places for Japan and a wide run with minimal people in my way. I went for maximum speed, boosting the rollers and landing in deep pow but still found that if I didn't put my weight on the back leg the nose would submarine. My back leg was aching toward the end of the run but it was a great run, couldn't get the smile off my face. 

Got straight back in the line which was not even a 5 minute wait and we were back up top again, this time I ducked under the lift and into the steepest tree section on the mountain, found a line quickly with some reasonably spaced trees and charged it. Again I had to load up my back leg to keep the nose up.

We did about 5 - 6 more tree runs and then it was close to lunch time, most lines were tracked out by then but there were still plenty of untouched stashes, its a big resort. I spent the afternoon going as fast as possible, dipping in and out of pow stashes and boosting natural side hits with the odd pow butter on the nose. I think this is where the archetype really shines, it has a playful enough flex but still holds a really good edge and can lay a trench with ease and plenty of pop and stability on jumps. For riding fresh and deep Japow it did not have the required float but if your legs are strong enough you will be rewarded and have a great time once the main lines are tracked out. If you are going somewhere that you can ride un-tracked lines all day then its probably not a great choice. I have other boards in my quiver that are perfect for that.


----------



## Jkb818

Personally I think the reference should be back further.


----------



## Jkb818

Also think the nose of the board could use some more rise.


----------



## Craig64

Jkb818 said:


> Also think the nose of the board could use some more rise.


Exactly how I feel about EA. I ride my 162 (95kg) maxed out to rear on front foot and -20 on rear (EST). It rips in and out of powder pockets and back on the groomers, but when I enter into deep powder the nose doesn't plain high enough. I sort of wish it was a 165 for me as there is just not enough set back with the channels with EST to keep my stance centred over the board in powder. Always worried about getting tomahawked in powder on the EA and to compensate I have to always lean back to keep the nose up. It's a good freeride/all mountain board but not as good as my dump truck (freeride)......, and my Fish absolutely destroys it in Powder.


----------



## ridethecliche

Are you guys using EST bindings or disc bindings? The latter allow for more setback right?


----------



## Jkb818

Disc and yes


----------



## Crunchatize

Ok so I finally got to ride an Archetype and I get it.. this board is pretty awesome, believe the hype! Rode it at Revelstoke on a non-pow day (it was my friends board he wouldn't let me use it on the pow days how selfish...) rode some groomers, tree stashes with left over pow and some side country with 10-15cm of left over powder. This thing obviously floats and I expected that but it's SO nimble in the trees while being a stable free-ride charger which surprised me. I really liked the waist width of the 162 (26cm) and overall it felt like the perfect free-ride/pow board for me at 190-195lbs geared up... 

Now that being said the one thing that is stopping me from selling my current free-ride board (ride alter ego) and picking up an Archetype is the swallowtail.. It works really well in softening the tail and I imagine that's how it was so nimble in the trees even at 162cm and 26cm WW but I like a proper tail on my free-ride boards. Riding style is pretty freestyle focused.. I like landing and taking off switch as well as dropping modest cliffs all of which is not ideal with the swallowtail.

Has anyone done a side by side comparison with the Arche and the Maverick? I combed through this thread and didn't find too much side by side info despite the thread title! I would imagine the Mav is much stiffer through the tail so likely not as nimble in the trees? How do these boards stack up as steep&deep freeride/pow decks, are you giving up a lot of float and versatility by dropping the swallowtail? I am looking for something to replace my 162 Ride Alter ego which I love but after riding some wider boards the 25cm waist on the AE is feeling a bit too narrow... Also looking at the Capita Kazu so if anyone has some comparison between that and the Mav that would be awesome


----------



## smellysell

Crunchatize said:


> Ok so I finally got to ride an Archetype and I get it.. this board is pretty awesome, believe the hype! Rode it at Revelstoke on a non-pow day (it was my friends board he wouldn't let me use it on the pow days how selfish...) rode some groomers, tree stashes with left over pow and some side country with 10-15cm of left over powder. This thing obviously floats and I expected that but it's SO nimble in the trees while being a stable free-ride charger which surprised me. I really liked the waist width of the 162 (26cm) and overall it felt like the perfect free-ride/pow board for me at 190-195lbs geared up...
> 
> Now that being said the one thing that is stopping me from selling my current free-ride board (ride alter ego) and picking up an Archetype is the swallowtail.. It works really well in softening the tail and I imagine that's how it was so nimble in the trees even at 162cm and 26cm WW but I like a proper tail on my free-ride boards. Riding style is pretty freestyle focused.. I like landing and taking off switch as well as dropping modest cliffs all of which is not ideal with the swallowtail.
> 
> Has anyone done a side by side comparison with the Arche and the Maverick? I combed through this thread and didn't find too much side by side info despite the thread title! I would imagine the Mav is much stiffer through the tail so likely not as nimble in the trees? How do these boards stack up as steep&deep freeride/pow decks, are you giving up a lot of float and versatility by dropping the swallowtail? I am looking for something to replace my 162 Ride Alter ego which I love but after riding some wider boards the 25cm waist on the AE is feeling a bit too narrow... Also looking at the Capita Kazu so if anyone has some comparison between that and the Mav that would be awesome


I can't compare to the Arc, but I have a Maverick. It's pretty fucking stiff, and I don't love it in trees. Floats OK, but not great. Super stable obviously with how stiff it is. Kind of a jack of all trades, master of none board in my noob experience. Biggest complaint is how easily mangled the base has been. Have an old, Gnu 11up that I've been riding in the same conditions in the same mountain. While it has so deep scratches for sure, the Mac is completely thrashed.

One thing I still want to do is try some stiffer bindings on it. I feel like it kind of over powers the Cartels I have on it. 

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


----------



## Crunchatize

smellysell said:


> I can't compare to the Arc, but I have a Maverick. It's pretty fucking stiff, and I don't love it in trees. Floats OK, but not great. Super stable obviously with how stiff it is. Kind of a jack of all trades, master of none board in my noob experience. Biggest complaint is how easily mangled the base has been. Have an old, Gnu 11up that I've been riding in the same conditions in the same mountain. While it has so deep scratches for sure, the Mac is completely thrashed.
> 
> One thing I still want to do is try some stiffer bindings on it. I feel like it kind of over powers the Cartels I have on it.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


Interesting.. endeavor rates it medium/stiff same as the Archetype.. I found the Archetype to be medium stiffness for a 162 freeride board, perhaps the swallowtail makes it seem a loft softer especially torsionaly? Definitely don't want a super stiff board.. anything up towards a Jones Flagship in stiffness does not fit my riding style at all.


----------



## smellysell

Crunchatize said:


> Interesting.. endeavor rates it medium/stiff same as the Archetype.. I found the Archetype to be medium stiffness for a 162 freeride board, perhaps the swallowtail makes it seem a loft softer especially torsionaly? Definitely don't want a super stiff board.. anything up towards a Jones Flagship in stiffness does not fit my riding style at all.


To be fair, I've not ridden than many boards (7 or 8 maybe?). Rides really stiff to me, getting it to butter is a chore. The swallow obviously will make the tail softer, someone more experienced than me will have to chime in on how it affects torsional rigidity. 

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


----------



## F1EA

Crunchatize said:


> Interesting.. endeavor rates it medium/stiff same as the Archetype.. I found the Archetype to be medium stiffness for a 162 freeride board, perhaps the swallowtail makes it seem a loft softer especially torsionaly? Definitely don't want a super stiff board.. anything up towards a Jones Flagship in stiffness does not fit my riding style at all.


Neither the Archetype or the Maverick are anywhere near a Flagship. Thank goodness...

My buddy has a Maverick, it is pretty similar in pure flex to the Archetype, but because the tail is solid it feels a little sturdier. In general, the Maverick is very close and similar to the Flight Attendant... for people who ride mostly medium/soft, twins with hybrid profiles... these boards (Archetype and Maverick) would feel aggressive, stiff, floaty and stable. But in reality, they are middle of the road-ish for freeride/freestyle boards, which make them versatile and appealing to a lot of people who don't want to sacrifice the twin-like freestyle part of riding. I think the Maverick is a little nimbler in the tress because it's less wide and has a tighter sidecut. Archetype is not super nimble, it leans more towards higher speed turning; but it is still nimble enough, just not where it shines.

So yeah, Archetype has a great flex. Stiff enough to charge, but playful enough to make it playful and maneuverable. When the Archetype first came out years ago (it was some sort of special edition), it didn't have a chopped nose, so it was a bit longer/higher nose. I think that's how they should have kept it to help it float better. The Maverick is fine as it is for a freeride/freestyle board.

My Archetype base has been really sturdy. It's taken a few hits, but mostly from a couple of seasons ago when we had sudden early season pow dumps with shallow rocks... still looks good and decent minus one scratch which I thought was going to be a core shot when I felt it; but phew, it didn't reach the core.

Anyways... not sure how to rate the Archetype against other comparable boards like Kazu, Deep Thinker, Supernatant, Alter Ego, One Hitter, etc. Pretty sure any of these boards would be great. Each has its own advantages/disadvantages and features... I'm pretty sure I'd be happy with any of these; but the Archetype is pretty dope.


----------



## Crunchatize

F1EA said:


> Neither the Archetype or the Maverick are anywhere near a Flagship. Thank goodness...
> 
> My buddy has a Maverick, it is pretty similar in pure flex to the Archetype, but because the tail is solid it feels a little sturdier. In general, the Maverick is very close and similar to the Flight Attendant... for people who ride mostly medium/soft, twins with hybrid profiles... these boards (Archetype and Maverick) would feel aggressive, stiff, floaty and stable. But in reality, they are middle of the road-ish for freeride/freestyle boards, which make them versatile and appealing to a lot of people who don't want to sacrifice the twin-like freestyle part of riding. I think the Maverick is a little nimbler in the tress because it's less wide and has a tighter sidecut. Archetype is not super nimble, it leans more towards higher speed turning; but it is still nimble enough, just not where it shines.
> 
> So yeah, Archetype has a great flex. Stiff enough to charge, but playful enough to make it playful and maneuverable. When the Archetype first came out years ago (it was some sort of special edition), it didn't have a chopped nose, so it was a bit longer/higher nose. I think that's how they should have kept it to help it float better. The Maverick is fine as it is for a freeride/freestyle board.
> 
> My Archetype base has been really sturdy. It's taken a few hits, but mostly from a couple of seasons ago when we had sudden early season pow dumps with shallow rocks... still looks good and decent minus one scratch which I thought was going to be a core shot when I felt it; but phew, it didn't reach the core.
> 
> Anyways... not sure how to rate the Archetype against other comparable boards like Kazu, Deep Thinker, Supernatant, Alter Ego, One Hitter, etc. Pretty sure any of these boards would be great. Each has its own advantages/disadvantages and features... I'm pretty sure I'd be happy with any of these; but the Archetype is pretty dope.


Thanks for the great write-up! I don't get to demo too many boards other than hopping on a riding buddies deck so when I tried out that Archetype I knew I wanted something similar.. just with no swallowtail.. I have never ridden a flight attendant or any Burton board for that matter but if the Mav has a similar overall flex to the Arch that is definitely what I am after. 

Right now Im short listing the Maverick (162), Kazu(157), One Hitter(156) and Deep Thinker(160) as my freeride-pow board to replace the alter-ego... Will see what I can find in the late season sales


----------



## Yeahti87

85 kg, 10 US Tactical (280 mondo plus 1,7 cm outershell). 
I own the Archetype 160W 2020 and the Kazu 157 2019 (selling, too narrow for my riding style), tested the Archetype 162 2019 (selling, too narrow at the back foot). I’m gonna skip on the feedback on the Archetype, you have all the info in the previous posts - a playful freeride deck with a swallow tail. The tail is stiff along the edge but soft torsionally. You’ve ridden it yourself.

On the Kazu - it has a tad stiffer tail but it’s no swallow tail so the torsional stiffness is there too. It’s a very solid all mountain freeride snowboard, super light and poppy, on the stiffer side, especially the tips are stiffer than I’ve expected. I have no idea how Adam from Agnarchy found it a pretzel and I do have comparison to really stiff boards like my Amplid UNW8 or Rossi XV I had. The Kazu is narrower than the Archetype, the edge hold on ice is ok (and I feel the same about my Mercury 157 2020). The Archetype being very similar profile, softer flex and similar effective edge grips better. I’ve been wondering what is the reason and I think I’ve found it.

First of all Capitas come somehow dull from the wrapper imo (I’ve bought them all new). I mean I can still scratch my finger nails on my Kazu and Merc but the Arche is so sharp (while having more days on hard snow) that I’ve accidently cut my skin near my thumb. Razor sharp. This made me contact both Capita and Endeavor to find out how to properly resharpen them with a diamond stone and compare the default tune.
The Kazu and Merc have 88,5 edge and 1,5 base bevel while the Archetype is 90 edge and 0 base bevel. Both manufacturers have claimed they don’t detune it anywhere.


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## CauseNAffect

JDA said:


> I have other boards in my quiver that are perfect for that.


I'm having the same experience why my arc. It's NOT really a pow board - It's a great soft snow groomer ripper / freeride deck - and perhaps with a 165Wide it'd perform better in pow for me. I don't see the need to keep it considering what I'm looking for. 

With that being said I AM looking for another swallowtail that can crush waist deep pow if anyone has any recommendations. I'm probably going to sell this board since I now have a jones flag 162W for freeride daily driver, my pow stick should be great in pow for me.


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## Phedder

CauseNAffect said:


> I'm having the same experience why my arc. It's NOT really a pow board - It's a great soft snow groomer ripper / freeride deck - and perhaps with a 165Wide it'd perform better in pow for me. I don't see the need to keep it considering what I'm looking for.
> 
> With that being said I AM looking for another swallowtail that can crush waist deep pow if anyone has any recommendations. I'm probably going to sell this board since I now have a jones flag 162W for freeride daily driver, my pow stick should be great in pow for me.


If you're after something more aggressive and with more float the Nitro Squash is honestly hard to beat. You can't sink that nose, and it's stiffer full camber compared to the Archetypes Rocker/Camber and slightly softer flex truly rails all conditions. Definitely more work in the trees though, hard to beat the Archetypes nimbleness in that category of boards.


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## coloradodirtbag

I totally disagree with these claims that the EA isn't a powder board. I have the 160W and that shit floats like a fuckin' boat in Colorado.


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## Jkb818

coloradodirtbag said:


> I totally disagree with these claims that the EA isn't a powder board. I have the 160W and that shit floats like a fuckin' boat in Colorado.


I wish they made smaller sizes in W


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## The_Stigs

coloradodirtbag said:


> I totally disagree with these claims that the EA isn't a powder board. I have the 160W and that shit floats like a fuckin' boat in Colorado.


What is your weight for the 160w?

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk


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## Yeahti87

Jkb818 said:


> I wish they made smaller sizes in W


There will be 157W in 2021 actually and I’m considering changing to it depending how I change my quiver (160W is a little wide at the front foot for me).



coloradodirtbag said:


> I totally disagree with these claims that the EA isn't a powder board. I have the 160W and that shit floats like a fuckin' boat in Colorado.


It floats really well, just not as great as powder boards. For example my Optimistic at 154 is harder to submarine then nose. The Archetypes best selling point is the versality and this unique combination of carving, freeriding, jumping and floating in a playful package. It carves and pops waay better but floats a bit worse for its shape.


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## Jkb818

Yeahti87 said:


> It floats really well, just not as great as powder boards. For example my Optimistic at 154 is harder to submarine then nose. The Archetypes best selling point is the versality and this unique combination of carving, freeriding, jumping and floating in a playful package. It carves and pops waay better but floats a bit worse for its shape.


Agree 100%....sick board but might become my daily driver and board for semi deep days. I live in Utah so normal conditions here are usually pretty pretty soft. I’m also not doing any park. I have my eyes on a Korua Dart for deeper float days.


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## coloradodirtbag

The_Stigs said:


> What is your weight for the 160w?
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk


185, size 11 boot. I had the 162 before the 160w. 160w floats better and is more stable, but it’s a bit slow on edge at 276ww


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## Crunchatize

ended up picking up a 162 maverick.. couldn't resist a 2019 model for 40% off. Will be a couple of weeks before I can ride it since I picked it up while browsing shops in Banff after a riding day at sunshine cut short due to a shoulder dislocation .. stand by for a review in a couple of weeks haha.

honorable mention to the sunshine medical staff.. nitrous for resetting the shoulder was a very welcome surprise. Much better than when I did this at killington and they wouldnt even give me advil


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## ridethecliche

Dang, I thought they'd use ketamine for shit like that. No advil sounds mean.


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## Jkb818

I can’t get over how playful the AE is as a freeride deck. Also seems super light.


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## ckang008

I take my EA to morning powder runs at niseko and then afternoon park runs for small to mid size jumps and some boxes. Works as well as my 09 Trice which is quite surprising. Best thing is that I don't need to switch boards midday from pow to all mountain deck during lunch breaks. 

Will downsize from 162 to 158 next season see how it feels. The sales on their official website is too tempting to pass


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## ridethecliche

ckang008 said:


> I take my EA to morning powder runs at niseko and then afternoon park runs for small to mid size jumps and some boxes. Works as well as my 09 Trice which is quite surprising. Best thing is that I don't need to switch boards midday from pow to all mountain deck during lunch breaks.
> 
> Will downsize from 162 to 158 next season see how it feels. The sales on their official website is too tempting to pass


Were you able to get one? They're sold out of a lot of stuff.


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## ckang008

I was able to nab a 158 and a162 on the first or second day of the 50pct off sale. A lot of stuff went out of stock quickly. Tried to help a friend get the shortest one but that was sold out too. 

Just hope I can get the boards on snow this year😂


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## JDA

ckang008 said:


> I was able to nab a 158 and a162 on the first or second day of the 50pct off sale. A lot of stuff went out of stock quickly. Tried to help a friend get the shortest one but that was sold out too.
> 
> Just hope I can get the boards on snow this year😂


Nice, you are going to love it! I didn't get to ride mine at all this season but I rode it a lot in Japan this year.


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## Elevation212

Pulled the trigger on a archetype 160w, looking for a binding recommendation my current options are

1. Union Falcors
2. Jones Apollos
3. Bent Metal Transfers
4. Rome 390s

Boards coming in friday and we are slated to get close to 20 this weekend! Stoke level is high!


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## Yeahti87

Elevation212 said:


> Pulled the trigger on a archetype 160w, looking for a binding recommendation my current options are
> 
> 1. Union Falcors
> 2. Jones Apollos
> 3. Bent Metal Transfers
> 4. Rome 390s
> 
> Boards coming in friday and we are slated to get close to 20 this weekend! Stoke level is high!


Rode mine 160W with Falcors and Katanas and they all drive it well. I will try X Base next time. You don’t need to pick the bindings ‚for the Archetype’.

People say the EST springbed is awesome so if I were to buy a dedicated binding for it, I’d go these probably.


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## Elevation212

Yeahti87 said:


> Rode mine 160W with Falcors and Katanas and they all drive it well. I will try X Base next time. You don’t need to pick the bindings ‚for the Archetype’.
> 
> People say the EST springbed is awesome so if I were to buy a dedicated binding for it, I’d go these probably.


Thnx for the advice, I'll probably wait until the offseason deals for est bindings as this will be my only deck with that system


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## Yeahti87

Elevation212 said:


> Thnx for the advice, I'll probably wait until the offseason deals for est bindings as this will be my only deck with that system


As far as I recall - the springbed EST was in Burton Genesis X before. From this season (2020/2021) it was moved to the X Base EST model. So either older Genesis X Est or the newest X Base EST.


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## 16gkid

Been loving my Now/burton drives on the 160w archetype, this thing is a great carver


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## Yeahti87

16gkid said:


> Been loving my Now/burton drives on the 160w archetype, this thing is a great carver
> View attachment 156644


So you say it’s worth it to buy a Channel disc to my frankened Drives?


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## 16gkid

Yeahti87 said:


> So you say it’s worth it to buy a Channel disc to my frankened Drives?


Yeah it's a cool setup, you can see the skatetech at work moving heel to toe way more clearly using the channel


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## Elevation212

16gkid said:


> Yeah it's a cool setup, you can see the skatetech at work moving heel to toe way more clearly using the channel


Cool so it sounds like rock the apollos! Which is awesome as they are on my odd man out a frame


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## Elevation212

16gkid said:


> Been loving my Now/burton drives on the 160w archetype, this thing is a great carver
> View attachment 156644


What are the plastic strips between your bindings for?


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## 16gkid

Elevation212 said:


> What are the plastic strips between your bindings for?


The crab grab skate rails? They provide a little extra grip when one footing, or for grab tricks, they were on there already from previous owner 








Skate Rails


FOR SNOWBOARDS. 2 Per Pack 12" x 1.125" With a shape and design inspired by the classic skateboard rails of the 1980’s, these peel n’ stick foam rails offer your topsheet extra grip for grabbing, and traction for one-footed riding. We hope you stick these on your board, send it off a snow...




crabgrab.com


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## Elevation212

16gkid said:


> Yeah it's a cool setup, you can see the skatetech at work moving heel to toe way more clearly using the channel
> [/QUOTE
> 
> Go time shows dumping, will report back on a 160w with skate tech


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