# Snowboarding is the new Skiing



## anti-bling (Apr 21, 2010)

Back in the 80's, that lame era of perrier, wine coolers, tight pants, and bad synth-rawk, skiing thoroughly sucked.
Not entirely mind you, some people didn't take it too seriously and rocked out (watch some old footage of Glen Plake)

But for the most part, it was populated with self-important, whining, look-at-me day-glo lameness. It had fallen victim to its own supposed 'coolness', and while it sunk deeper and deeper into conspicuous consumption, fashion, and narcissism, the lamer it got. Believe me, i was there, and i skied.

Then snowboarding came. It was soon outlawed by skiers who had 'rules' on the way people should look, or turn on the hill. Snowboarding exploded the narrow views and tight pants of skiing, no longer content with perfect their schnoodling on groomers, being on a snowboard meant you could hit EVERYTHING. All terrain was game, and the style was anti-skiing. Anti-rules, anti-elitist french fashion, and anti-seriousness.

And now 20 years on, snowboarders are again listening to bad synth-rawk and wearing tight pants.

But its not just superficial, snowboarding is now taking its own self-image as seriously as skiing did. And it is making the sport lame. Maybe you don't believe me. Snowboarding is still fun, you may say. Yes, but it is a very limited kind of fun nowadays, terribly overshadowed by worries about sticker placement and coordinated outfits and coolness. 

The hype machine in its effort to sell snowboarding to everybody has also created a market for the unessential parts of conspicuous consumption, fashion, and narcissism, which is swallowing the sport. It makes me sad to see that snowboarding has taken over the place of skiing, the things it rebelled against.

Just wanted you to know.

Hating starts in three....


two....




one....


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## Method (Apr 3, 2009)

I wasn't aware I should care what the other people are doing.


I think that about sums up this discussion... good day sir


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## Xelorz (Nov 4, 2010)

Method said:


> I wasn't aware I should care what the other people are doing.


Agreed. Mind your own business. Problem Solved.


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## Snowfox (Dec 26, 2009)

anti-bling said:


> Back in the 80's, that lame era of perrier, wine coolers, tight pants, and bad synth-rawk, skiing thoroughly sucked.
> Not entirely mind you, some people didn't take it too seriously and rocked out (watch some old footage of Glen Plake)
> 
> But for the most part, it was populated with self-important, whining, look-at-me day-glo lameness. It had fallen victim to its own supposed 'coolness', and while it sunk deeper and deeper into conspicuous consumption, fashion, and narcissism, the lamer it got. Believe me, i was there, and i skied.
> ...


Meh, I'll give you some points for trying I suppose.


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## Toecutter (Oct 11, 2009)

Nice rant. Not sure what it all means, but I give you an A for enthusiasm.


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## c_mack9 (Jan 9, 2009)

maybe we should just kill all the snowboarders?


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## ozman204 (Jan 7, 2010)

well that being said the only thing to do now would
be to rebel

Lets Ski!!!!!!!:cheeky4:


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## Toecutter (Oct 11, 2009)

ozman204 said:


> well that being said the only thing to do now would
> be to rebel
> 
> Lets Ski!!!!!!!:cheeky4:


Wouldn't the natural progression be to bring back ski ballet? Ha!


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## caneyhead (Jan 5, 2009)

Reference flick "Swift, silent, deep" for repudiation of above skier generalization.


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## Grizz (Nov 10, 2008)

Guess I was wrong. I'd been thinking Snowboarding is the new foosball.


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## HoboMaster (May 16, 2010)

Yup, don't care enough what others think about me and my gear to really make the statement true.

Teenagers who are obsessed with what everyone else thinks about them will always be teenagers who are obsessed with what everyone thinks about them. You can't change that, no matter what era they're going to keep on doing the same thing because that's the epitome of young human behavior.

Once you get passed that it's more about just doing whatever you can to have fun. I could give a rat's ass if I don't have "steez", I'm not a parkrat, and my outfit probably makes me look like a tree, (brown pants, green jacket).


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## BurtonAvenger (Aug 14, 2007)

I blame the synth rawk god damn Devo!


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## Shocktroop531 (Aug 3, 2010)

the OP has a point that is somewhat valid I think. there is definitely a bro snowboarding scene that can be annoying. ya run into these people around ski towns and they all dress the same, act the same, talk the same, and listen to the same music. etc.... but I don't really care that much. i've always done my own thing.


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## c_mack9 (Jan 9, 2009)

caneyhead said:


> Reference flick "Swift, silent, deep" for repudiation of above skier generalization.


oh my gracious that was so freakin good. totally changed my outlook on skiiers.


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## JRosco (Sep 27, 2010)

I can see the point you're trying to make, and I agree for the most part. Snowboarders were the black sheep on the mountain for a long time, bucking the system trying to get respect and the same access to mountain skiers enjoyed, but now boarding is no longer the black sheep (except at Deer Valley, they still don't like us there). Snowboarding has caught up with skiing and is now mainstream, and everything else that comes with it! Like it or not, snowboarding is just as fun as it was when it first started, and if you don't worry about what everyone else is doing and enjoy what you like to do, nothing else matters!


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## mallrat (Oct 27, 2009)

It is what it is.

Punk rock is the new preppy. I just look at the bright side, I don't get pulled into secondary search every time I fly for having sleeves anymore. 

Was listening to Devo on the way home from work the other day.


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## mallrat (Oct 27, 2009)

Aren't there still more skiiers than boarders?


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## oneshot (Oct 8, 2010)

remember 20 years ago we didn't have internets to easily share the "scene" the internets has runined a lot of things actually.

depends on what forums u are browsing at the moment.. 

90% of the threads here are about what to buy, sticker placement, this vs that.. and its completely superficial. :thumbsdown:

some other forums are about how deep is the powder, where u riding this weekend, check out these rad pictures, etc.. :thumbsup:

one thing everyone should agree on is.
the ski industry and resorts owe the birth of snowboarding a great deal.. lift tickets sky rocketed and ski's tech mimics snowboards now.. $$$$ chaching!

FYI: if you can ride with out riding resorts and lifts, everything is about riding powder and making turns in a soulful way.. all the tight pants and syth rawking hipster kids scene becomes invisible. only when u log onto the internets will u find out theres a totally lame scene going on at your local ski lift hill.

if you don't see the "scene" does it still exist? YES, but its less irretating. 

thats my opinion and .02


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## pontiuspylate (Oct 7, 2010)

mallrat said:


> Aren't there still more skiiers than boarders?


Not in New Mexico. Snowboarders out number skiers almost 3 to 1.


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## InfiniteEclipse (Jan 2, 2009)

I didn't read all (of) that, but I think you're reading too much in to it... who cares what people care or don't care about

Obsessed with your looks? cool... don't give a damn? cool.... whining about it on the internet? nes pas cool

Also, I look at folks that pioneered the sport like damian sanders and the dude was all about style... hair, clothing, the works... no one gave him shit cuz he was doing his thing... don't see why that needs to change


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## oneshot (Oct 8, 2010)

InfiniteEclipse said:


> I didn't read all that, but I think you're reading too much in to it... who cares what people care or don't care about
> 
> Obsessed with your looks? cool... don't give a damn? cool.... whining about it on the internet? nes pas cool



way to make an informed comment. haha


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## InfiniteEclipse (Jan 2, 2009)

oneshot said:


> way to make an informed comment. haha


hahah, yea I read enough to get the gist of it... I haz no problem with anti-bling of course, I think he's a fine lad


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## graybox (Nov 18, 2010)

i feel like alot of the older guys peg the young crowd totally wrong. they see kids in parks, tight pants, being loud all that shit. and get mad about it. all i have to say is. why you mad?
i mean, yeah, alot of it is trendy. cant argue that. but i feel like its those kids who truley dont give a shit what others think. and i can respect that. they just wear what they think is cool. whats so bad about it?. dont judge based on appearence. i have been very fortunate with work lately so i bought alot of really new nice gear. i know i will be judged. so many people will think im some snobby rich kid. all im saying is dont judge so hard. rep what you think is cool. who REALLY gives a shit.

now if you meet one of these kids. and they are an asshole/cut people off/get in the way. hate on that. people talk about how lame all the fashion is. i think the people who talk about how lame it is are the lame ones. the others who enjoy it are just having fun. so what if i care what color gogs i rock. or about the graphic on my board.

i care 10x more about the riding. as do most. fuck the hate.


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## InfiniteEclipse (Jan 2, 2009)




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## oneshot (Oct 8, 2010)

MTV and the Int0rwebz killed snowboarding!


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## Phenom (Dec 15, 2007)

If snowboarding is the new skiing, then what is the new snowboarding??


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## MistahTaki (Apr 24, 2010)

graybox said:


> i feel like alot of the older guys peg the young crowd totally wrong. they see kids in parks, tight pants, being loud all that shit. and get mad about it. all i have to say is. why you mad?
> i mean, yeah, alot of it is trendy. cant argue that. but i feel like its those kids who truley dont give a shit what others think. and i can respect that. they just wear what they think is cool. whats so bad about it?. dont judge based on appearence. i have been very fortunate with work lately so i bought alot of really new nice gear. i know i will be judged. so many people will think im some snobby rich kid. all im saying is dont judge so hard. rep what you think is cool. who REALLY gives a shit.
> 
> now if you meet one of these kids. and they are an asshole/cut people off/get in the way. hate on that. people talk about how lame all the fashion is. i think the people who talk about how lame it is are the lame ones. the others who enjoy it are just having fun. so what if i care what color gogs i rock. or about the graphic on my board.
> ...


i hate little punk kids. they have no respect for anything. they dont wear what they think is cool, they wear what everyone else is wearing. they also act how all of their peers act, careless and disrespectful.


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## BurtonAvenger (Aug 14, 2007)

The thread is just full of gaping vaginas.


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## mallrat (Oct 27, 2009)

Did you say gaping vagina











I'm old and I'll never understand skinny jeans but if that's what someone what's to wear, go for it. Who know maybe they are more functional, I just like letting the twig and berries breathe.


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## oneshot (Oct 8, 2010)

BurtonAvenger said:


> The thread is just full of gaping vaginas.


thats a gaping vagina calling the vagina gaping..


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## pontiuspylate (Oct 7, 2010)

Phenom said:


> If snowboarding is the new skiing, then what is the new snowboarding??


Ski Biking!!! :laugh: :laugh:


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## Toecutter (Oct 11, 2009)

pontiuspylate said:


> Ski Biking!!! :laugh: :laugh:


That looks like a lot of fun to me (as an avid mountain biker in the warmer months) but I'm afraid I'd kill a few people on one of those ski bikes. How heavy are they, 40#? Coming through!


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## BurtonAvenger (Aug 14, 2007)

oneshot said:


> thats a gaping vagina calling the vagina gaping..


Mines more widened than gaping.


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## KIRKRIDER (Mar 18, 2008)

anti-bling said:


> Back in the 80's, that lame era of perrier, wine coolers, tight pants, and bad synth-rawk, skiing thoroughly sucked.
> Not entirely mind you, some people didn't take it too seriously and rocked out (watch some old footage of Glen Plake)
> 
> But for the most part, it was populated with self-important, whining, look-at-me day-glo lameness. It had fallen victim to its own supposed 'coolness', and while it sunk deeper and deeper into conspicuous consumption, fashion, and narcissism, the lamer it got. Believe me, i was there, and i skied.
> ...


 
No hate at all man...but coming from other sports I see riding as one of the most self centered and personal sport expressions ever. I do rock climbing too, at least you have grades for routes there,the higher the number, the harder the route... 
Riding, *for what I AM concerned* , is just about keepin the smile I have on my face at each turn on the powder....and there's no one around looking at how I am dressed or what brand my board is...or if there is...I could not care less.
Yes we will go trough waves of fashion, different colors...different pant shape...do you really care? All I care of is how many inches it did the night before, and where's my season pass...


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## Donutz (May 12, 2010)

pawlo said:


> No hate at all man...but coming from other sports I see riding as one of the most self centered and personal sport expressions ever. I do rock climbing too, at least you have grades for routes there,the higher the number, the harder the route...
> Riding, *for what I AM concerned* , is just about keepin the smile I have on my face at each turn on the powder....and there's no one around looking at how I am dressed or what brand my board is...or if there is...I could not care less.
> Yes we will go trough waves of fashion, different colors...different pant shape...do you really care? All I care of is how many inches it did the night before, and where's my season pass...


It's on your jacket, right where you left it!

Know what you mean, tho. When I'm on the mountain, all the stress and worry and trivial crap that jams my normal days just drops away. Can't think about mortgages and taxes while the snow is coming up to try and take you. Even on the lift, you're either analyzing your last run or planning your next.


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## KIRKRIDER (Mar 18, 2008)

Donutz said:


> It's on your jacket, right where you left it!
> 
> Know what you mean, tho. When I'm on the mountain, all the stress and worry and trivial crap that jams my normal days just drops away. Can't think about mortgages and taxes while the snow is coming up to try and take you. Even on the lift, you're either analyzing your last run or planning your next.


Donutz...riding pow is one of the few things that just resets my mind completely, with the help of some local grown veggie, I had some of the best days of my life just riding down the hill over that white stuff...even more than climbing (sorry if I keep mentioning it...it's in my blood) climbing is total focus and control, riding is the opposite, follow the flow of the slope and let go....beautiful.

Hell, it makes me even forget I'm still looking for a job...for a little.


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## Grizz (Nov 10, 2008)

Snowolf said:


> And once you exit the gate into the back country, nothing out there has changed really for hundreds and thousands of years other than the trees got bigger....:thumbsup:


[hijack]Wish my area had a back country gate. I'm sick of the "protecting us from ourselves" attitude prevalent in this country. Give me a damn wavier to sign and let me do what I want.[/hijack]


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## Toecutter (Oct 11, 2009)

Grizz said:


> [hijack]Wish my area had a back country gate. I'm sick of the "protecting us from ourselves" attitude prevalent in this country. Give me a damn wavier to sign and let me do what I want.[/hijack]


Good in theory, but if you died in the backcountry isn't it your hurt/angry relatives who would be the ones to sue, waiver or no waiver? That's what I've read. It's the upset relatives who do the suing.


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## Grizz (Nov 10, 2008)

Phenom said:


> If snowboarding is the new skiing, then what is the new snowboarding??


Tele on snolerblades?

Just kidding, it's the jib skate.






Worth watching just for the music.


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## Qball (Jun 22, 2010)

Donutz said:


> It's on your jacket, right where you left it!
> 
> Know what you mean, tho. When I'm on the mountain, all the stress and worry and trivial crap that jams my normal days just drops away. Can't think about mortgages and taxes while the snow is coming up to try and take you. Even on the lift, you're either analyzing your last run or planning your next.


Exactly! I always forget about everything else when I'm on the mountain. Yeah sometimes on the lift I'll think "damn I have a lot of homework" but then I see a pow stash and forget all about it.


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## Deviant (Dec 22, 2009)

Phenom said:


> If snowboarding is the new skiing, then what is the new snowboarding??


This..










Airboarding...


(please god no.)


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## Grizz (Nov 10, 2008)

oneshot said:


> remember 20 years ago we didn't have internets to easily share the "scene" the internets has runined a lot of things actually.


Fishing forums have messed up many good zipperlips.


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## anti-bling (Apr 21, 2010)

well, nice to see 4 pages this morning. 

Some of you have completely missed the point with what i was saying, but i imagine thats because you were still swimming in your dad's nutsack when most of this happened, and haven't seen the changes to the sport.

The main charge is that i am caring to much about what other people think. Actually, its not. Or not in the way you think.

I love snowboarding, and have given a large part of my life to it, and what i see nowadays is people caring more and more about what board they have, what clothes they wear, and how their stickers look on their board.

I'm not romanticizing things, this has always been around to an extent, and i am guilty of it too. But the levels it has reached today are ridiculous. Like someone said, look at the number of posts people make about their equipment, looking to be vindicated in their petty consumer choices. Compare that to threads like these, where we actually discuss the sport. Its sad to me.

I don't want to wax nostalgic too much about how much better it was in the old days, but in some ways i think it was a healthier attitude. Duct tape was a badge. It showed that you were down to ride, and were spending money of lift tickets or weed instead of shiny new gear. There wasn't as much fetishization of goods and fashion. Hell, i rode in a Safeway cartpushers jacket for a few years.

Gear for the most part became more and more centered on function, as opposed to the ridiculous flair skiers were sporting. That seems to have climaxed around 2000, and now we have more and more shit pervading the sport that is strictly fashionable, and extremely unfunctional. Chains and bling on bindings, pants with fake buttons on the cargo pockets, and shit boards that break in a season.


this move towards superficiality and elitism is what i hate, and its what we rebelled against in skiing.
To see it take over snowboarding bums me out.

So whats next? 

My vote is for noboarding.


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## Grizz (Nov 10, 2008)

BurtonAvenger said:


> Mines more widened than gaping.


A few more sutures after the episiotomy would have fixed that.


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## myschims (Jan 11, 2010)

Method said:


> I wasn't aware I should care what the other people are doing.
> 
> 
> I think that about sums up this discussion... good day sir


eeeexactly.
whats it matter what people wear?
i see a guy riding around in flashy neon gear from the 80s and it brightens my day, especially when hes on a board throwing 540s on some good sized kickers 
It really doesnt matter, as long as it keeps you warm and the water out, of course the next step is liking what you wear. Or everything would be made in just black, different things appeal to different people. deal with it.


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## InfiniteEclipse (Jan 2, 2009)

anti-bling said:


> So whats next?
> 
> My vote is for noboarding.



NoBoard

Good on you for supporting a Canadian startup


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## BurtonAvenger (Aug 14, 2007)

Everything your whiney about is only the mainstream the non mainstream is everything you want but if you can't see that then you obviously don't care.


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## anti-bling (Apr 21, 2010)

BurtonAvenger said:


> Everything your whiney about is only the mainstream the non mainstream is everything you want but if you can't see that then you obviously don't care.


Admittely, i'm in Japan right now, so maybe i'm getting skewed view. But consitering what passes for conversation about snowboarding these days on this forum, the majority of it seems caught up in fashionable consumption.

One of the points i'm trying to make, if any, is that there was a time when the mainstream was less about hype and more about really snowboarding. And that has shifted enormously in the last 10 years or so. This of course not directed at hardcore riders, i know they are out there. I hope they are out riding instead of listening to my sob story. 

This is a letter to those that don't know any better.


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## Grizz (Nov 10, 2008)

Toecutter said:


> Good in theory, but if you died in the backcountry isn't it your hurt/angry relatives who would be the ones to sue, waiver or no waiver? That's what I've read. It's the upset relatives who do the suing.


Hell, I'd have all my relatives sign too if it gave me lift access BC.

I'm no barrister, all I know is Canada and Europe have the right attitude about this. What would the States loose in return for swinging the balance of justice away from suing for blame and back to personal responsibility?

Apologies to the OP.


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## Deviant (Dec 22, 2009)

anti-bling said:


> well, nice to see 4 pages this morning.
> 
> Some of you have completely missed the point with what i was saying, but i imagine thats because you were still swimming in your dad's nutsack when most of this happened, and haven't seen the changes to the sport.
> 
> ...


While I agree snowboarding has become more fashion oriented in recent years, I don't really think it's a bad thing. Snowboarding has always been about self expression, in more abstract ways back in the day then now though, I will agree on that. It's being an individual on a board, doing my own thing wherever I want that is part of the fun of snowboarding to me, and no matter how someone else dresses or what fashion statements come and go it will still be about snowboarding. There's always going to be the kids that buy something because someone they know rides it. Or says it's cool, whatever, but the vast majority of us are making decisions on our own accord.

I too come from the days of duct-tape thumbs on my gloves, super low back bindings, 6 foot deep halfpipes and K2 Low-Ball boots (lol) but it's just like anything else, fashions will come and go. Heck, one of my friends used to wear firefighter pants as his snowboarding pants.


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## Grizz (Nov 10, 2008)

Snowolf said:


> likely to grow into a bitter old fuck...:thumbsup:


Gettttt off my lawn


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## pontiuspylate (Oct 7, 2010)

Toecutter said:


> Good in theory, but if you died in the backcountry isn't it your hurt/angry relatives who would be the ones to sue, waiver or no waiver? That's what I've read. It's the upset relatives who do the suing.


Sure the family can sue but when a waiver is signed it is damn near impossible to win. When a waiver is created it is gone over with a fine tooth comb by a bunch of lawers to prevent any loop holes in the event some dumbass actually tries to sue anyway.


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## oneshot (Oct 8, 2010)

Grizz said:


> Fishing forums have messed up many good zipperlips.




seriously!!! my "secret" fishing holes aint secrets anymore..


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## anti-bling (Apr 21, 2010)

Deviant said:


> While I agree snowboarding has become more fashion oriented in recent years, I don't really think it's a bad thing. Snowboarding has always been about self expression, in more abstract ways back in the day then now though, I will agree on that. It's being an individual on a board, doing my own thing wherever I want that is part of the fun of snowboarding to me, and no matter how someone else dresses or what fashion statements come and go it will still be about snowboarding. There's always going to be the kids that buy something because someone they know rides it. Or says it's cool, whatever, but the vast majority of us are making decisions on our own accord.



thats a great statement, and i agree with most of it, except for the idea of 'self-expression'. Isn't self expression a bit more than choosing what pre-made clothes other people have designed? Or where to place other people's logos on your deck?

I totally agree that snowboarding is fully about self-expression, and i will fully admit that fashion is a part of that. I have my own personal likes and dislikes. This thread is not about specific fashions tho. But on the topic of fashion, 2 things

1-fashion is much more fun and from your 'self' when its actually created by yourself, instead of just consumed. For example, one would expect with all the 'self-expression' and choice, people would be wearing ski gear as well, which is just as functional as from 'snowboard' companies (if not more). So how many of you wear stuff from a ski company? Or have you altered your gear to make it 'personal'? Made your own stickers? stencils? Expressed how YOU feel instead of how Burton or Holden feels?

2-You cannot care about fashion and have fun simultaneously. Having fun, as in totally having fun, means being in the moment. Nothing else enters your head when you are in the middle of a pow slash. Thats why lots of people ride, because they temporarily forget all the weekday crap. If you tried to think about if people could see your die-cut Ashbury sticker while you were tweaking out a method, you'd either eat shit, or forget about doing the method. Caring about fashion (or anything else) is ultimately not tied to the actual experience of riding, and it can't be, unless you want to only get half the experience.


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## Snowfox (Dec 26, 2009)

anti-bling said:


> well, nice to see 4 pages this morning.
> 
> Some of you have completely missed the point with what i was saying, but i imagine thats because you were still swimming in your dad's nutsack when most of this happened, and haven't seen the changes to the sport.
> 
> ...


First off, do you want some sort of reward for snowboarding longer than most of us or is that a legitimate comment? Don't see too many people say that without it being part of an e-penis competition.

Out of curiosity, what exactly have you given to snowboarding that makes your contribution so great compared to the kids buying stickers or (Oh God) new gear among other things? Is your dollar worth significantly more than anyone else's? :dunno:

Third, while I'll admit that some focus too much on their equipment rather than improving their skills, there are a couple of VERY good reasons:
1. Gear isn't cheap nowadays (even used gear can be expensive for most), so if someone is spending money they want to make sure they're spending it on something that will at least work for them
2. A lot of us can't snowboard at the moment due to geography, jobs, school, or other commitments. A lot of us pass the time by talking about gear and watching videos. If we could be snowboarding, the majority of us would be
3. People are confused by all the technobabble in the industry today (some is unnecessary flair but most is similar concepts separated by marketing) and want someone to explain it to them. I can't tell you how many of my friends don't know what I'm talking about when I go into rocker, camber, and rocker/camber talks. Not even going to try something company specific like Harshmellow

And what the hell is the definition of someone who is "hardcore"?


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## BurtonAvenger (Aug 14, 2007)

Snowfox said:


> And what the hell is the definition of someone who is "hardcore"?


You're not hardcore unless you live hardcore cause the legend of the shred was way hardcore!


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## Toecutter (Oct 11, 2009)

Grizz said:


> Hell, I'd have all my relatives sign too if it gave me lift access BC.
> 
> I'm no barrister, all I know is Canada and Europe have the right attitude about this. What would the States loose in return for swinging the balance of justice away from suing for blame and back to personal responsibility?
> 
> Apologies to the OP.


I'd love to see more personal responsibility in the States too. Our culture unfortunately has gone the opposite direction. I'm not anti-sidecountry/backcountry. I find the topic interesting, which is the only reason I bring it up.

I found this article interesting. It doesn't necessarily pertain to personal responsibility but it brings up sidecountry issues. "Who Should Respond To Ski Resort Out-of-Bounds Rescues?"
Powered by Google Docs

Even if a rider/skier and his entire family tree signed a waiver, if it was known he was injured and freezing to death slowly on the side of a mountain, I could imagine the public outcry of "somebody do something!!!"

Waivers are just a piece of paper, and knowing how lawyers are, you can find someone to sue for anything regardless of any legal papers. You would still need to pay for attorneys to argue that the waiver was valid. For example, when a person has surgery they sign a consent form that states that the outcome cannot be guaranteed and that a bad result may happen, yet people sue their surgeon all the time (despite having signed that "waiver").

Sorry for the threadjack, but the original topic was going south anyway.


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## ev13wt (Nov 22, 2010)

^^ Because sueing and winning is an American thing. In Europe its like:" See sign? Sign say NO OFF PISTE. See ticket? Ticket say NO OFF PISTE. Go fawk a tree bb thanks come again next winter."



Phenom said:


> If snowboarding is the new skiing, then what is the new snowboarding??


"Freestyle skiing" 


Snowboarding has turned into skateboarding. That is all I will say. You still want to be underground hardcore? Try agressive inline skating. Like 5 shops worldwide, no magazines, handfull of companies and a "dead industry". And yes, skateboarders will say its gay.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x8pIrk_WKds&feature=related And if you dont like wanna be hip hoppers: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Se302ePQQKk&feature=related

When I go boarding, most of the people I meet are blinged out, heck even the group I go with is like: We will call you ragboy. So this year I got me some cool no name jacket. I'm gonna spray paint a big old NS logo on the back, and will laugh at their :"Awesome jacket dog jadda jadda." I'll tell them all its a pre production sample.


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## Grizz (Nov 10, 2008)

ev13wt said:


> In Europe its like:" See sign? Sign say NO OFF PISTE. See ticket? Ticket say NO OFF PISTE."


I thought it was more like this, "Approaching ski area boundry, beyond this point you may die, Have Fun!"


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## Toecutter (Oct 11, 2009)

ev13wt said:


> ^^ Because sueing and winning is an American thing. In Europe its like:" See sign? Sign say NO OFF PISTE. See ticket? Ticket say NO OFF PISTE. Go fawk a tree bb thanks come again next winter."


Ha ha! I like it.


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## ev13wt (Nov 22, 2010)

Grizz said:


> I thought it was more like this, "Approaching ski area boundry, beyond this point you may die, Have Fun!"


That as well, but not officially.

Riders: "Hey Holzmichael, can we hike that ridgeline there and the drop from about the middle?"
Lift man at the top (Old Austrian dude with beard): *looks at mountain* "Looks like you could do it."

We only got a "No!" once. But it was dangerous because of the snow conditions.


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## Donutz (May 12, 2010)

Toecutter said:


> Waivers are just a piece of paper, and knowing how lawyers are, you can find someone to sue for anything regardless of any legal papers.


You can sue anyone any time for anything. The important question is, can you win?


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## Shocktroop531 (Aug 3, 2010)

no matter who you are, where you are, or why you're there: if you are lost in an avalanche or in the backcountry, rescue units will be sent out. Hikers get lost out here in the Unitas all the time . Helicopters and search teams are always sent out to find them. 

Same goes with swimmers in the ocean.


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## Toecutter (Oct 11, 2009)

Snowolf said:


> Where Europe has it on us is they have rescue insurance that climbers and back country users purchase foe the trip to pay for the cost of rescue should something go wrong. This way, the general public is not paying for the cost of the rescue.


Colorado used to have a similar wilderness permit. Back in the mid-1980s it was only one dollar, or if you purchased a fishing license for $14 that was included. That money went towards insurance fund for search and rescue. It was the best one dollar insurance policy ever.


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## killclimbz (Aug 10, 2007)

Toecutter said:


> Colorado used to have a similar wilderness permit. Back in the mid-1980s it was only one dollar, or if you purchased a fishing license for $14 that was included. That money went towards insurance fund for search and rescue. It was the best one dollar insurance policy ever.


They still do. It's the Colorado SAR card. $3 for a year, $5 (I believe) for five years. 

It just covers the expenses of Search and rescue out of a general fund. You don't even need to carry the card with you. Just have to let them know you have paid for it.

Hunting and fishing license still contribute to this fund and you are covered if you have purchased one of those in Colorado.


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## linvillegorge (Jul 6, 2009)

killclimbz said:


> Hunting and fishing license still contribute to this fund and you are covered if you have purchased one of those in Colorado.


This for sure. Anytime you purchase a hunting or fishing license in CO a portion of it goes to the SAR fund.


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## JoeR (Oct 30, 2010)

Grizz said:


> I'm no barrister, all I know is Canada and Europe have the right attitude about this. What would the States loose in return for swinging the balance of justice away from suing for blame and back to personal responsibility?


Some other countries may provide more comprehensive support systems outside the courts. Consider the following three responses:

social welfare programs
individual litigiousness
riots
You can't minimize all three simultaneously.


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## Toecutter (Oct 11, 2009)

linvillegorge said:


> This for sure. Anytime you purchase a hunting or fishing license in CO a portion of it goes to the SAR fund.


Back when I lived in Colorado the search and rescue fund was not very well known. It was one of the best kept secrets ever. Do they advertise the existence of the fund more openly now? I think they should; I would think that just about anybody who spends a lot of time in the outdoors would be willing to spend a few bucks to have that insurance, and the fund would grow considerably.


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## killclimbz (Aug 10, 2007)

It's actually pretty well funded. The hunting and fishing license sales alone guarantee that. What it does is that it creates a general fund that is appropriated to S&R groups based on their expenses when they are called out. So a group like Clear Creek and Summit County S&R is going to get more money. Due to the fact that they go out on more calls than say Weld (If they even have an S&R) County S&R. REI and other outdoor shops sell the SAR cards, which are cheaper than buying a hunting or fishing license. Especially if you don't hunt or fish. Definitely worth having if you enjoy the outdoors in this state and the cost is minimal.


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## Toecutter (Oct 11, 2009)

killclimbz said:


> It's actually pretty well funded. The hunting and fishing license sales alone guarantee that. What it does is that it creates a general fund that is appropriated to S&R groups based on their expenses when they are called out. So a group like Clear Creek and Summit County S&R is going to get more money. Due to the fact that they go out on more calls than say Weld (If they even have an S&R) County S&R. REI and other outdoor shops sell the SAR cards, which are cheaper than buying a hunting or fishing license. Especially if you don't hunt or fish. Definitely worth having if you enjoy the outdoors in this state and the cost is minimal.


It's such a smart idea. I wish they did that here in Oregon.


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## HoboMaster (May 16, 2010)

That insurance program sounds like a serious No-Bama Socialist scheme, I remain highly skeptical. I would much rather get stuck, have to pay $10,000 in my rescue, then pay a $3-5 fee!!!!


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## anti-bling (Apr 21, 2010)

Snowfox said:


> First off, do you want some sort of reward for snowboarding longer than most of us or is that a legitimate comment? Don't see too many people say that without it being part of an e-penis competition.


Being able to snowboard so long is reward enough. But the comment is valid, the sport's image has changed drastically in the last 20 years, and kids who started eve 10 years ago won't have known a time when snowboarding and skiing was a bit cheaper/less disposable and a little less concerned with image.



> Out of curiosity, what exactly have you given to snowboarding that makes your contribution so great compared to the kids buying stickers or (Oh God) new gear among other things?


just this thead. At least you are now doing something other than reading another kid's heart-rending decision whether the topsheet of his new Rome will work better with his outfit than a Skate Banana.




> Is your dollar worth significantly more than anyone else's? :dunno:


what does this have to do with anything?



> Third, while I'll admit that some focus too much on their equipment rather than improving their skills


I'm glad you understand that much. But my arguement is way larger than just focus on equipment. I have no problem with people talking about equipment. I do that too. Its the substance of the conversation that saddens me.

If its strictly about finding the right gear for you, that will help your snowboarding, then sure.

But if you are looking for gear that will help your image in snowboarding, that is altogether different. That is what bothers me. The same can even be said for 'improving skills', if its only for the objective of looking cool. That may not be much of an issue in North America, but here in Japan is pretty raw. 



> there are a couple of VERY good reasons


Like i said, i'm not against honest questions in the pursuit of snowboarding, questions in the pursuit of not snowboarding are silly.



> And what the hell is the definition of someone who is "hardcore"?


Someone who has given up comforts to be able to ride, because they love it.
You can define 'comfort' in different ways. Relationships, money, security, intact ligaments, etc.


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## oneshot (Oct 8, 2010)

i'm with Anti-Bling on this topic 100%
i will let him do the long winded typing for me 

there is no soul anymore unless u completely get away from ski/board resorts. and if you do, its thriving actually..

facebook killed snowboarding!


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## HoboMaster (May 16, 2010)

Really? I have a blast every time I go chairlift access snowboarding. I don't see how anything is wrong with snowboarding if you don't feed into the superficial side of it. There is a superficial side of EVERYTHING. You do have the power to ignore it, but it seems like you would rather try and convince everyone that what they're doing is wrong.

Everyone likes different things, and different ways of doing things. I don't think anyone has the right to tell people that the way they are doing something is wrong if they are having fun.


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## Music Moves (Jan 23, 2009)

Perception is everything.


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## anti-bling (Apr 21, 2010)

HoboMaster said:


> Really? I have a blast every time I go chairlift access snowboarding. I don't see how anything is wrong with snowboarding if you don't feed into the superficial side of it. There is a superficial side of EVERYTHING. You do have the power to ignore it, but it seems like you would rather try and convince everyone that what they're doing is wrong.
> 
> Everyone likes different things, and different ways of doing things. I don't think anyone has the right to tell people that the way they are doing something is wrong if they are having fun.


I agree that things aren't dead by any means, even on resorts. As long as kids are having fun on the snow, thats all that matters*

I still have tons of fun goofing off on the hill and exploring, and i don't think that part of it is lost at all.

What is growing is the superficial side. I have my own theories, but i'd like to hear all yours.
if you also think snowboarding is getting more superficial, what do you think the causes are?






















*as long as the having fun doesn't negatively impact the environment itself, of course. We have to try to stop pissing in our own swimming pool.


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## Toecutter (Oct 11, 2009)

Is it okay if I am relatively easy on the environment, enjoy the fancy equipment, enjoy the fancy clothing, don't really give up on comforts, and still have fun on the snow without caring how I appear to others? Because that's what I do…


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## Donutz (May 12, 2010)

anti-bling said:


> What is growing is the superficial side. I have my own theories, but i'd like to hear all yours.
> if you also think snowboarding is getting more superficial, what do you think the causes are?


It's a natural progression. People like to be part of an exclusive club -- to be "insiders". When the sport is young and difficult to understand because there are only a few people in it, it's enough to just be part of the scene. When it becomes mainstream and they're starting to publish jargon dictionaries on coffee mugs, you have to find another way to be exclusive. Some become "core" and start hating on things, some go "upscale" and spend lots of dough to become trendy. The ones who don't give a shit continue to have fun.

I don't think there's anything wrong with buying nice stuff if you have the money and you have to have one anyway, as long as you're buying the jacket because _you_ like it and not because you think _others_ will. Two people can have the same jacket and one's a poser and the other isn't. The test: Tell them both their jacket sucks. The poser will get a worried look and buy a new jacket for next time. The other guy will tell you where you can put it.


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## anti-bling (Apr 21, 2010)

Music Moves said:


> In most cases, these people that benefit from the profits of snowboarding fashion are (again, in most cases) the ones that have pushed the sport and give back to the sport immensely.


Bullshit. Skateboarding has a more inclusive industry, and while there are more skater-owned companies and less multi-national corporations involved than snowboarding, snowboarding has been a cash cow and milked as such.

Tell me, why did Terry Kidwell, who has given so much to the sport, have to put up his beloved snowboard collection on E-Bay?

Are instructors, the ones who work to introduce snowboarding in a fun and safe way to the masses profit from giving back to the sport? No, they get paid peanuts, because they do it for love. I would say that in a very real way lifties are doing more for snowboarding than Shaun White ever will.




> I don't know who you are (OP), so I'm inclined to ask... who are you?


Thats a bit of a broad question. Hit me up with a private message if you want to talk.



> I'll be 38 years old in January and I went to jail for skateboarding at the age of 15. Now there are people that have pioneered skating on so many levels that have literally PAVED the way. There are parks EVERYWHERE... places where kids have an opportunity to express themselves and progress in the sport and life.


And the extreme mass of those people are not famous or profiting from skateboarding, other than enjoying it. People that have built their own ramps, committees that have gotten together to get permission for parks, all the kids that have helped out sweeping out a spot... They all toil for the love of the sport, not for any kind of 'profit' or 'image'. They are the true pioneers who help the sport grow in its difficult stages, not some company like Nike that comes in afterwards and throws a bunch of money at a project to get their name on it.



> I didn't snowboard until the 90s but I've seen parallel truths exist within this sport since I started.


Be too, but i guess i see something different.



> I'm stoked to see awesome gear, things that make a kid's life completely centered around something in which I place a lot of value... wish I could've had that when I was a kid...


I don't get your logic here. How has the change in gear helped center a kids life around the sport more? How has it improved the sport?

True, people can go bigger with newer tech, but truthfully, the fun level hasn't changed a bit since when i started. Well, thats not entirely true. Bindings that don't kill your ankle bone, and waterproof fabrics that allow you to ride longer in shitty conditions have helped allow me to have more fun for longer periods of time. But other than that, the only thing that has changed is that the sport is easier. NOT to be confused with more fun.

In fact, the funnest time i've had on a board in the last 10 years is when i went backwards, and gave up bindings for a pow run. THAT what unreal, it brought me back to just how fun a turn can be.



> True, there are those that don't get it, but I think those are much less prevalent than you purport.


from the number of posts on this site, i suspect to opposite.




> So again, who are you? The one who watches the park from a distance and makes generalizations
> 
> Or the one who "sees things" headed in the wrong direction and guides?


What, those are my only two options? What about "Are the one in the park, breaking yourself and having fun throwing out wack tricks, but still calls it like you see it"?



> To some extent, their future is in our hands. If we care enough to make this thread, shouldn't we care enough to actually be a part of it?


You just explained why i continue to bother to write.


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## linvillegorge (Jul 6, 2009)

Toecutter said:


> Back when I lived in Colorado the search and rescue fund was not very well known. It was one of the best kept secrets ever. Do they advertise the existence of the fund more openly now? I think they should; I would think that just about anybody who spends a lot of time in the outdoors would be willing to spend a few bucks to have that insurance, and the fund would grow considerably.


It's still not very well advertised at all IMO. The only reason I knew it existed was from buying hunting and fishing licenses. I do a ton of backpacking, Jeeping, etc. so I'm in the backcountry a lot. If I didn't hunt or fish, I wouldn't have realized the SAR fund existed.


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## Toecutter (Oct 11, 2009)

linvillegorge said:


> It's still not very well advertised at all IMO. The only reason I knew it existed was from buying hunting and fishing licenses. I do a ton of backpacking, Jeeping, etc. so I'm in the backcountry a lot. If I didn't hunt or fish, I wouldn't have realized the SAR fund existed.


I learned of it from buying fishing licenses and would probably never have heard of it otherwise.


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## pontiuspylate (Oct 7, 2010)

anti-bling said:


> Are instructors, the ones who work to introduce snowboarding in a fun and safe way to the masses profit from giving back to the sport? No, they get paid peanuts, because they do it for love. I would say that in a very real way lifties are doing more for snowboarding than Shaun White ever will.


I agree with this. Even though Shaun White and Travis Rice get the snowboarding name and fame out there, the real hero's of the sport are the bunny hill instructors. By teaching someone how to properly snowboard increases their fun of the experiance. In turn, that person will tell their non-snowboarding friends to try it and so on...


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## Music Moves (Jan 23, 2009)

anti-bling said:


> You just explained why i continue to bother to write.


My point is that this thread is bollucks unless you're doing something aside from complaining on a message board. I (and I would think most others) come here to enjoy snowboarding, not bash it. 

And the topic of this bollucks thread should make a reference to the capitalistic nature of our society rather than skiing. 



> Tell me, why did Terry Kidwell, who has given so much to the sport, have to put up his beloved snowboard collection on E-Bay?


SNOWBOARD MAG: What is your take on snowboarding and how far it has come? Did you ever think it would progress to the level it has?
TK: For me snowboarding was not just a sport, it was a lifestyle. Today, snowboarding is everything I dreamed it would become one day. Today’s riders are truly amazing athletes.

SM: Are the values that our sport was founded on still apparent in the riders today?
TK: Yes.

He seems to like snowboarding today.

TERRY KIDWELL: Rider Profile



> I don't get your logic here. How has the change in gear helped center a kids life around the sport more? How has it improved the sport?


Now the gear is snowboard-centric rather than having to wear ski clothes and many of the people that profit from that do give back to snowboarding immensely. Imo, that is progression. I'm happy that I have that option. There are always people who don't get what they deserve, but it's not the kids' fault. I look at them and see people enjoying what they have. You look at them and see people "getting it wrong." As I said, there are those that don't get it... if we are focusing on them, why do it in such a negative light is all I'm saying? This thread is a lot of tearing down and no building up... what are you doing to make it better OTHER THAN THIS THREAD?



> What, those are my only two options? What about "Are the one in the park, breaking yourself and having fun throwing out wack tricks, but still calls it like you see it"?


I am the one that will pass you while you condescendingly look at people's clothing and have a negative perception. You need some cheese brother. I'm not the one complaining about the culture, so I don't need to do anything to fix it. I enjoy it. You're the one complaining on a message board... you fix what you think is broken.



> Nike


I agree that the people who pioneered should reap the benefits, but such is the way of the capitalistic world when Nike wins yet again. Though this is a direct reason for your obvious dismay, that would be a monster of a thread on its own. 



TK goes on to to say this:

SM: If you could change one thing about snowboarding today what would it be?
TK: It seems like the original pioneers have been lost in the mix and a lot of the riders today don’t know who helped snowboarding become the sport it is today. Snowboarding is my life and to have sponsors get behind me again to help promote our great sport would be a dream come true.

I agree that many of the pioneers have been left out. It sucks. To some degree, your thread isn't bollucks, btw. I just think that it is if you are only whining about it on a message board.

Regarding this:



> I have no problem with people talking about equipment. I do that too. Its the substance of the conversation that saddens me.
> 
> If its strictly about finding the right gear for you, that will help your snowboarding, then sure.
> 
> But if you are looking for gear that will help your image in snowboarding, that is altogether different. That is what bothers me. The same can even be said for 'improving skills', if its only for the objective of looking cool. That may not be much of an issue in North America, but here in Japan is pretty raw.


That's what kids do with most anything, most anywhere. "They're kids, man!"


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## HoboMaster (May 16, 2010)

Music Moves said:


> That's what kids do with most anything, most anywhere. "Their kids, man!"


This is my point, Kids will be doing this shit for centuries to come, and they have been doing it for thousands of years. It's merely a part of young human psychology and group order. If you wanna bitch at the 25+ year olds for being superficial Steeze-Whores then you have my full support. Anyone under that age is subject to lame-ass highschool peer pressure and most fold to it, thus creating mass insecurity.

At this point this thread isn't going anywhere, it's going around in circles with everyone pretty much stating the above.

I think you better start attacking child psychology rather then snowboarding, that's where the root of the problem lies.


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## Music Moves (Jan 23, 2009)

HoboMaster said:


> This is my point, Kids will be doing this shit for centuries to come, and they have been doing it for thousands of years. It's merely a part of young human psychology and group order. If you wanna bitch at the 25+ year olds for being superficial Steeze-Whores then you have my full support. Anyone under that age is subject to lame-ass highschool peer pressure and most fold to it, thus creating mass insecurity.
> 
> At this point this thread isn't going anywhere, it's going around in circles with everyone pretty much stating the above.
> 
> I think you better start attacking child psychology rather then snowboarding, that's where the root of the problem lies.


This, capitalism and marketing...


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## PowSurfer (Nov 10, 2009)

I ride where I ride what I ride and when I ride because it is what works for me! I choose my gear to maximize my experience on the mountain based on function not trendy fashion. Then again I'm an old guy who was skiing at age 4, tried snowboarding in the late 70s, fully converted in mid/late 80s. I've seen young, old, trendy, gapers all at the top of the mtn on a pow day with a big smile on their faces. I don't care about anybody elses gear or fashion, or what they think of mine. It's all about the experience that I'm having, getting my stoke on my way! All the trendy gear helps support the industry so they keep selling new crap every year. I do agree I prefer to read posts about actual riding pow and epic days more then sticker placement which I kinda chuckle at. I say to each their own, now quit typing on the internet and go get some...


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## mallrat (Oct 27, 2009)

OK I'll bite.

You can't compare skating and snowboarding industry wise. At the absolute core of the sport, one is free and you pay for one. Meaning you grad your board and go find a curb vs. going to a resort where you have to pay to get on a ski lift.

Skateboarding has left just as many behind just as many as snowboarding. It's many of the skaters still get to skate. There's Jason Jesse, last time I saw him (granted it was 12 years ago), he was still skating just didn't have anything to do with the industry. He got boards and trucks flowed to him but he didn't have to pay to go out and ride a mini ramp. Tod Swank turned out to be a very shrewd and sometimes ruthless businessman. 

The difference is a majority of the snow companies were being founded while these guys were riding. There is about a 1-2 generation difference. More snowboarders are not being left behind by starting their own companies. It's all a cycle. The younger guys don't know who a lot of the pioneers are but if you look at skating how many guys would say John Lucero is one of the riders who influenced their style; very, very few. How many young guys even say Brian Thien, Nate Cole, Dale Rehburg, J2 or a lot of the early jib guys are huge influences. Most say JJ or JP. 

I actually think snowboarding is in a very healthy spot. Ok Nike's involved, but if you look at their riders they are representing all sides of the sport from Nick Dirks to Ellery Hollingsworth to Gigi are profiting from the sale of baseball mitts. That's not a bad thing. 

Go ride and do what you enjoy.


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## anti-bling (Apr 21, 2010)

Music Moves said:


> My point is that this thread is bollucks unless you're doing something aside from complaining on a message board. I (and I would think most others) come here to enjoy snowboarding, not bash it.
> 
> 
> > Um, no. This forum is about snowboarding, and for me that included the shitty, dark side of it as well. The fact that snowboarding is the funnest thing doesn't have to be stated, thats why we are all here.
> ...


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## BurtonAvenger (Aug 14, 2007)

Why do you get so twisted about this, capitalism, people eating beef, and all that shit. You just seem like a fucking whiney crybaby. You want to sit around and preach about all this bullshit go for it, or actually do something to bring a change that's attainable. Start locally fix that scene and it'll spread fuck I swear people have forgotten what grassroots truly is. 

Oh and FYI snowboarding has no definitive answer to what it truly is. People are people and do what they want to do.


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## MistahTaki (Apr 24, 2010)

Why is this thread even still going?


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## InfiniteEclipse (Jan 2, 2009)

BurtonAvenger said:


> People are people and do what they want to do.


Brilliant.


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## roremc (Oct 25, 2009)

MistahTaki said:


> Why is this thread even still going?


+1

For 10 char


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## anti-bling (Apr 21, 2010)

BurtonAvenger said:


> Why do you get so twisted about this, capitalism, people eating beef, and all that shit. You just seem like a fucking whiney crybaby.



Why do you bother snowboarding when there are so many other wonderful and interesting sports out there, like snowblading, curling, and dog-fighting?



> You want to sit around and preach about all this bullshit go for it, or actually do something to bring a change that's attainable. Start locally fix that scene and it'll spread fuck I swear people have forgotten what grassroots truly is.


One aspect of 'grassroots' is doing exactly this, getting people to think and talk about it.



> Oh and FYI snowboarding has no definitive answer to what it truly is. People are people and do what they want to do.


I think thats a great idea. I pretty much agree with it, and would leave it at that, except that in reality, people who are trying to sell you snowboarding have an increadibly larger say in what snowboarding is, and define it. 

In case you missed the whole point, what i'm trying to do here, is get kids who have been raised in this hyper-advertised environment to know that they are in charge of defining snowboarding, not the companies trying to sell them an image.

by the way, are you angrysnowboarder?


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## fattrav (Feb 21, 2009)

BurtonAvenger said:


> People are people and do what they want to do.


Pretty much



MistahTaki said:


> Why is this thread even still going?


Agreed.


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## InfiniteEclipse (Jan 2, 2009)

anti-bling said:


> by the way, are you angrysnowboarder?


He's actually quite charming in person, but yes he is The angry snowboarder.. if there had to be one


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## Donutz (May 12, 2010)

There _is_ one way in which snowboarding _is_ the new skiing, and skiing _is_ the new snowboarding.

I had a conversation with a teenager on the lift one time last season. She had skis on, and when I asked her why she skied instead of boarding she told me that everyone snowboards and she wanted to try something different.

Coming up next, the return of disco....


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## Music Moves (Jan 23, 2009)

> I instruct, hold charity events, and continue to ride. What do you do?


I ride.

I let others ride how they perceive it should be done, which provides space for creativity...

And as I mentioned previously, I've no complaints, so it's not my agenda to change the snowboard world.

Cheers and good luck with your crusade!


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## HoboMaster (May 16, 2010)

This thread is reminding me of political discussionS with Clubmyke :laugh:


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## BurtonAvenger (Aug 14, 2007)

You're not bringing about change at all you're just doing is the typical stand on the soap box and cry like a little bitch. Seriously you want to go do something? Get off your ass walk down to the local shop and ask them who the most destitute little kid is that comes in every day begging for stickers. Walk over talk to him, buy him whatever piece of gear he actually needs and a lift ticket and get his ass on the hill. That's making a difference.

Oh no everyones a consumer let me tell you something here buddy go look in the mirror with all your gear on. DId you make those goggles? How about that outerwear? Building your board in the garage yourself? Oh you got an injection mold for those bindings? Did you make that boot yourself too? NO you didn't and that's just so fucking hypocritical of shit you've spewed. Oh no we're all mass consumers buying into hype. OK hope you're rocking Sorels with duct tape and garbage bags for ponchos then.

Like I said People are People and they're going to do what they want. But you're too blind to see the people that are everything you want snowboarding to be. Every day I wake up, walk across the street hop the bus go up and ride, take chair 5 to the top of the park, skate over, and you know who I see sitting there? A shit ton of pro's that are just having fun with a smile on their face mingling with a ass load of non pro's. There's Janna Meyen riding for Volcom and Lib Tech standing next to Spenser O'brien who rides for Burton and Redbull. Next to them is Eric Willet who rides for Omatic who sits next to small Paul one of the local guys who rides head to toe Burton and Smith. There I am riding an Omatic and L1. The Tight Pants Crew will roll in looking like gypsy heshers, next to the skittle kids, next to the T9 gangstas, next to the Quebec Rome contingent. You want to know what the common theme is with all of us? We're all smiling, having fun, and sharing this common grounds we call snowboarding. Some are better than others, but we don't give a fuck. Hell the other day I rolled in wearing a Columbia jacket and Chad Otterstrom was there next to me wearing a Reebok Minnesota Vikings jacket. Oh no we're not cool, didn't change anything with anyone we were still having fun riding with smiles on our faces.

This thread is your personal ego stroke to piss and moan about bygone eras and how we should all just cast down any progression snowboarding has had in the last 20 years and be ashamed that companies are making money, that we have events that promote snowboarding, that we have pro riders. Dude you're the one with the problem not everyone else. You can sit on that miniature pony of yours and yes I'm going with miniature pony cause you don't deserve a high horse and tell all of us that we're consumers that we're this and we're that. But the truth is you're too scared to look in the mirror and realize that you're everything you hate about snowboarding.

Now go read this from Yobeat and realize there's tons of us that have fun out there. YoBeat: Making Fun of Snowboarding Since 1997 2010/11: The Best Season to Snowboard, Ever

Oh and while we're on the subject yeah I do run angrysnowboarder.com give me some awesome insight into what my site is about. I love it when people tell me what something I've created is about or what I should use it for. My site does what it does and I don't give a fuck about it.


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## Toecutter (Oct 11, 2009)

anti-bling, I think you may have lost your audience here.


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## fattrav (Feb 21, 2009)

Hmm, i dont know which one to use...


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## anti-bling (Apr 21, 2010)

BurtonAvenger said:


> You're not bringing about change at all you're just doing is the typical stand on the soap box and cry like a little bitch.


I'm sorry, am i cutting in on your territory?



> Seriously you want to go do something? Get off your ass walk down to the local shop and ask them who the most destitute little kid is that comes in every day begging for stickers. Walk over talk to him, buy him whatever piece of gear he actually needs and a lift ticket and get his ass on the hill. That's making a difference.


Actually, that is good advice, and its sweet that you care. And i do actually try to do stuff and hold events during the season, but just not at this moment. I'm moving back to Canada from Japan and not sure if i will have the time or resources to do something this season tho.



> Oh no everyones a consumer let me tell you something here buddy go look in the mirror with all your gear on. DId you make those goggles? How about that outerwear? Building your board in the garage yourself? Oh you got an injection mold for those bindings? Did you make that boot yourself too? NO you didn't and that's just so fucking hypocritical of shit you've spewed. Oh no we're all mass consumers buying into hype. OK hope you're rocking Sorels with duct tape and garbage bags for ponchos then.


For fukks sakes, i criticize, but you go off the deep end. Relax, take a deep breath, and slowly read the next paragraph.

Snowboarding depends on the industry, it has since the beginning. I have no beef with buying stuff to ride. Especially if it is well made. You seem determined not to listen to the point i'm making.

We have passed a point however, where snowboarding ceased to be a fringe lifestyle activity and became big business. Which is not all bad either. But with big business and mass marketing necessarily comes all the bullshit that detracts from the fun and individuality. The desire for huge profits drives bullshit marketing, how else do you convince kids to keep buying new shit every year if their old stuff is still fine? Make them feel left out, or give them idiotic status symbols to try to attain to 'fit in'. 

This is where snowboarding doesn't quite jive with excess consumerism and capitalism. In snowboarding, the object is fun. In capitalism, its excess profit. It's not impossible to balance both, unless you want obscene profits. That's when corners get cut, deceptive advertising is used, and kids are taught how to shop more than how to have fun. 

So how do i deal with that? One is just by being myself, and hopefully being a positive example when i ride and teach, but that only reaches so many people. And i'm not sure kids are stoked on switch rockets as much as i am.

Another way is by asking these questions, and getting people to talk/argue about it. Basically, this is exactly what i wanted, to get people thinking and talking about it. 





> Like I said People are People and they're going to do what they want.


Thats what i want to. I would like people to see just how much their 'wants' are determined and shaped by the media, instead of 'fun'. You're response below is a great description of just that.



> But you're too blind to see the people that are everything you want snowboarding to be. Every day I wake up, walk across the street hop the bus go up and ride, take chair 5 to the top of the park, skate over, and you know who I see sitting there? A shit ton of pro's that are just having fun with a smile on their face mingling with a ass load of non pro's. There's Janna Meyen riding for Volcom and Lib Tech standing next to Spenser O'brien who rides for Burton and Redbull. Next to them is Eric Willet who rides for Omatic who sits next to small Paul one of the local guys who rides head to toe Burton and Smith. There I am riding an Omatic and L1. The Tight Pants Crew will roll in looking like gypsy heshers, next to the skittle kids, next to the T9 gangstas, next to the Quebec Rome contingent. You want to know what the common theme is with all of us? We're all smiling, having fun, and sharing this common grounds we call snowboarding. Some are better than others, but we don't give a fuck. Hell the other day I rolled in wearing a Columbia jacket and Chad Otterstrom was there next to me wearing a Reebok Minnesota Vikings jacket. Oh no we're not cool, didn't change anything with anyone we were still having fun riding with smiles on our faces.


Um, we're talking about the same thing. Not giving a fuck about anything like fashion and just having fun snowboarding.



> This thread is your personal ego stroke to piss and moan about bygone eras and how we should all just cast down any progression snowboarding has had in the last 20 years and be ashamed that companies are making money, that we have events that promote snowboarding, that we have pro riders.


Woah, where did i say any of that? No need to twist what i'm saying. Read what i've said again, i think you are spending too much time playing the pissed-off dude to read clearly.




> Dude you're the one with the problem not everyone else. You can sit on that miniature pony of yours and yes I'm going with miniature pony cause you don't deserve a high horse and tell all of us that we're consumers that we're this and we're that. But the truth is you're too scared to look in the mirror and realize that you're everything you hate about snowboarding.


In a sense, this is very true. I have gone through the fashion bullshit like everyone else, and bought into it. I used to be really insecure of my riding, i had something to prove. And i can totally understand where these kids are coming from when they buy into all the image thats being sold to them under the banner of 'snowboarding'. 
But i've gone through enough to know that all that really has nothing to do with riding itelf, and having fun. 

The more i stressed about fashion, serious competition, tricks, and 'image', the less fun i had actually riding. And that is the whole arguement in a nutshell.

This is about telling kids that in the end, all that crap doesn't matter. I hope they can avoid the same mistakes i made, and enjoy the sport. In your own way, you are saying the same.




> Oh and while we're on the subject yeah I do run angrysnowboarder.com give me some awesome insight into what my site is about. I love it when people tell me what something I've created is about or what I should use it for. My site does what it does and I don't give a fuck about it.


***** please, don't worry about me giving a shit about your site.
Just wanted to make sure it was you, we butted heads before on the old snowboard.com site.


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## NYSnow (Nov 28, 2009)

Extreme ironing is the new snowboarding.


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## MistahTaki (Apr 24, 2010)

NYSnow said:


> Extreme ironing is the new snowboarding.


WTF is that? lol


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## fattrav (Feb 21, 2009)

NYSnow said:


> Extreme ironing is the new snowboarding.





MistahTaki said:


> WTF is that? lol



YouTube - Extreme Ironing Extreeeeeeemmme!


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## JeffreyCH (Nov 21, 2009)

Being retarded is the new genius.....


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## MistahTaki (Apr 24, 2010)

fattrav said:


> YouTube - Extreme Ironing Extreeeeeeemmme!


so how do you win? haha


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## InfiniteEclipse (Jan 2, 2009)

MistahTaki said:


> so how do you win? haha


Start on my dress shirts and I'll show ya


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## MistahTaki (Apr 24, 2010)

InfiniteEclipse said:


> Start on my dress shirts and I'll show ya


can i use my waxing iron?


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## chuckles17 (Nov 15, 2010)

Phenom said:


> If snowboarding is the new skiing, then what is the new snowboarding??


Snowskating!

Ambition Snowskates


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## SPAZ (May 2, 2009)

oneshot said:


> remember 20 years ago we didn't have internets to easily share the "scene" the internets has runined a lot of things actually.
> 
> depends on what forums u are browsing at the moment..
> 
> ...


I feel that this forum is more of a midway between your aforementioned :thumbsdown: and :thumbsup:.
Furthermore, I have friends that fit into that hipster crowd and their "steeze" is in a completely different sense. This trend will not last long. Personally, I think that the skiers that turn to snowboarding because they think it's cool but want to stick to their roots.

*Disclaimer: I am a teenager, and as the OP said, I notice a lot of this stuff. I don't hate on it though, and as another post says perception is everything.*


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## svwannabe (Dec 24, 2009)

I'm a little late to chime in but i understand what your saying. I have a chopped sportster and now choppers and bobbers are the cool thing to do, H-D and their stupid Dark Customs is to blame for it. People don't understand that you can buy cool, so you get these wankers out on their H-D Nightster and Irons thinking they are cool as shit. Their will always be posers or what have you in any group, the internet can be blamed for being able to spread everything that is cool to the world now but its whatever. You sift through all the bullshitters and find the people who love what they do at heart and life goes on.


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## NYSnow (Nov 28, 2009)

fattrav said:


> YouTube - Extreme Ironing Extreeeeeeemmme!


"The thrills of an outdoor activity with the satisfaction of a well pressed shirt." :laugh:


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## anti-bling (Apr 21, 2010)

I guess i should clarify a couple of things, people seem to misunderstand some things i said, or imagine i must be all bitter about some unrelated things

For one, i think the kids are all right. Snowboarding is one of the funnest things ever, and thats not about to change. The kids know that.

I'm not anti-business. We need people to make quality snowboard gear, and i have no problem supporting that.

I'm not anti-fashion, as long as it is created by you, and speaks to you. I think we get confused on the difference between expressing ourselves through our clothes and allowing ourselves to have fashion dictated to us from magazines.

I'm not even anti-poseur, they are a part of the ecosystem, and allow the companies to exist.

What i am criticizing, and asking people to rethink, is how snowboarding is portrayed these days, and if it really helps the objective of having fun.

We live in an age of increadible hype, and i'm afraid that it is rotting the spirit of riding, and 'manufacturing desires' that are totally unrelated to the actual sport. 

Of course there are people who see beyond this. Most of them, i think, have been riding long enough to see through the bullshit. So this isn't directed at them, its for the kids who might be worrying about if their boards, clothing, and 'image' fits someone else's stereotype.

I agree with all of you, snowboarding is about fun. I'm just sad that people are using that fun to sell totally needless crap and image to kids that don't know any better, and adults that should.


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## Toecutter (Oct 11, 2009)

Seriously, with all of the other crap I have to worry about (maintaining income, personal health, my kids' college funds/health/education, taxes, the economy, the state of health care, threat of terrorism, pollution, etc.) worrying about whether or not snowboarding is superficial or real ranks down there with worrying about whether I should wear underwear with stripes or solid colors. 

One thing I've discovered over the past couple of weeks is that the average age on this forum is a lot higher than I had previously thought. There are a lot of guys on here in our third, fourth, and fifth decades of life, with real concerns such as work, health and family. "Keepin' it [snowboarding] real" seems like something one would worry about up until graduation from high school, but then after that we grow up.

For me snowboarding is recreation, an escape perhaps, and I suppose one could say that it therefore is superficial by nature. I couldn't care much less how it is portrayed, whether it's hyped or whatever. I have real issues to worry about.


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## Grizz (Nov 10, 2008)

What do you think is the snowboard equivalent of a "pet rock"? 



anti-bling said:


> I'm just sad that people are using that fun to sell totally needless crap and image to kids that don't know any better, and adults that should.


Someones got to fund R&D.

Some of the snowboard related stuff is ridiculous, but if the money generated by it somehow gets turned into improved gear (in a function sense) for me, I don't have a problem with it. Let people buy worthless snowboard crap all they want. The only thing we all have in common is sliding downhill on snow. Does the presence or absence of "needless crap and image" to someone else really matter to your relationship with the sport? Don't worry about the kids and what makes them happy. 

So AB, 
I've become a bit lost in this discussion. Can you help me out? If you were to forced to condense all your thoughts from this thread into a one sentence statement, what would it be? Bonus points for being able to fit it into a tweet. I'm hoping this thread dies with your answer.


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## anti-bling (Apr 21, 2010)

Toecutter said:


> Seriously, with all of the other crap I have to worry about (maintaining income, personal health, my kids' college funds/health/education, taxes, the economy, the state of health care, threat of terrorism, pollution, etc.) worrying about whether or not snowboarding is superficial or real ranks down there with worrying about whether I should wear underwear with stripes or solid colors.
> 
> One thing I've discovered over the past couple of weeks is that the average age on this forum is a lot higher than I had previously thought. There are a lot of guys on here in our third, fourth, and fifth decades of life, with real concerns such as work, health and family. "Keepin' it [snowboarding] real" seems like something one would worry about up until graduation from high school, but then after that we grow up.
> 
> For me snowboarding is recreation, an escape perhaps, and I suppose one could say that it therefore is superficial by nature. I couldn't care much less how it is portrayed, whether it's hyped or whatever. I have real issues to worry about.



This is a really valid point, and i can't argue with it. The only thing is, this could be a reply to ANY THREAD on this site.


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## anti-bling (Apr 21, 2010)

Grizz said:


> So AB,
> I've become a bit lost in this discussion. Can you help me out? If you were to forced to condense all your thoughts from this thread into a one sentence statement, what would it be? Bonus points for being able to fit it into a tweet. I'm hoping this thread dies with your answer.



already said it, you missed it?


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## Grizz (Nov 10, 2008)

anti-bling said:


> already said it, you missed it?


Guess so, wouldn't have asked otherwise. I thing your main idea has been jumbled into a mishmash of other crap. What's the one sentence cliff note for your point, or are you not into the whole brevity thing?


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## anti-bling (Apr 21, 2010)

Grizz said:


> Guess so, wouldn't have asked otherwise. I thing your main idea has been jumbled into a mishmash of other crap. What's the one sentence cliff note for your point, or are you not into the whole brevity thing?


I was gonna make you look for it but that made me laugh.

here it is

"The more i stressed about fashion, serious competition, tricks, and 'image', the less fun i had actually riding. Don't make the same mistake as me".


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## Grizz (Nov 10, 2008)

anti-bling said:


> "The more i stressed about fashion, serious competition, tricks, and 'image', the less fun i had actually riding. Don't make the same mistake as me".


Don't think I would have found that needle in a crapstack.

Sorry you had to go through that dark period in your life. Hopefully posting your "mistake" here will save many children from the same fate.


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## Toecutter (Oct 11, 2009)

anti-bling said:


> This is a really valid point, and i can't argue with it. The only thing is, this could be a reply to ANY THREAD on this site.


Yes, that's my point. Snowboarding is not something to be taken too seriously.


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## shoe757 (Dec 6, 2010)

Toecutter said:


> Yes, that's my point. Snowboarding is not something to be taken too seriously.


I think you just summed up the whole thread. :thumbsup:


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## Toecutter (Oct 11, 2009)

shoe757 said:


> I think you just summed up the whole thread. :thumbsup:


Wow, this full circle was really big (and maybe a little bit painful).

Edit: At this point I can't figure out if I agree or disagree with anyone! Is snowboarding superficial, or is it superficial to care that it might be superficial? Gahhhh!


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## anti-bling (Apr 21, 2010)

Toecutter said:


> Wow, this full circle was really big (and maybe a little bit painful).
> 
> Edit: At this point I can't figure out if I agree or disagree with anyone! Is snowboarding superficial, or is it superficial to care that it might be superficial? Gahhhh!


Forgive me for my extravagence, but i'm not a 9 to fiver for whom snowboarding is just a leisure activity i do on the weekends. I've been raised on the hills and can't really imagine doing anything else in the winter. Its also been my main source of income for the past few years, so i do have perhaps a more involved view, and a bigger attachment to it that most people who just do it recreationally.


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## shoe757 (Dec 6, 2010)

My 2 cents is; Snowboarding to me is a stress reliever. A way to just mellow out and chill and let everything go. I love the way I can flow with the mountain and the snow and carve and create my own rhythm and there are no set rules on how to do it or how to look while doing it. Nobody tells me I have to wear a plain collared button up shirt with a white or black plain shirt under it with slacks. Nobody tells me I have to go down this slop at this speed and turn in these places. You let your mind go and just do what you want. I understand some people get sponsored and if you're pro you ride their board and go where they want. But that's what happens when you take their offer. Just because some people do so doesn't mean snowboarding itself has evolved into a sport of superficial people just trying to get sponsored. It's not a fashion show to me. You don't need all the new gear. I don't even care if you can barely go down a intermediate trail. I'm not going to laugh at you because I can do it with ease. I know I'm just rambling on and it doesn't matter to everybody but that is just my opinion.

Will


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## anti-bling (Apr 21, 2010)

we now resume your regularly scheduled broadcasting. Thank you for your patience.

http://www.snowboardingforum.com/bindings/33443-emerald-pink-flux-gu30s-my-black.html#post338999


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## jjermzz (Sep 20, 2010)

It happens with everything recreational. You gotta pay to play, is what the car dudes tell the young'n when they complain they can't afford $2,500 rims that seperate you from the crowd. Then you have companies making knock-off for $400. What can you do. Dismiss them all for trying something new...


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## Triple8Sol (Nov 24, 2008)




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## tprior (Oct 12, 2010)

I can see all the points being made here. I am a weekend warrior and I see all kinds of factions in both boarding and skiing. I think both sports have image conscious players and those who just want to ride. I don't really think that this has changed in the community over the years.


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## maybeitsjustme (Dec 1, 2008)

tprior said:


> I can see all the points being made here. I am a weekend warrior and I see all kinds of factions in both boarding and skiing. I think both sports have image conscious players and those who just want to ride. I don't really think that this has changed in the community over the years.


i agree, the people who you see who are obsessed with what they look like while riding are the same people who obsess over their looks while walking down the street. 

just because they show up at the mountain, just like they show up everywhere else, doesnt mean that snowboarding has lost value.

snowboarding is what you make of it. if you dont want to engage in it anymore because of the way others look while doing it--then it sounds like you didnt like it much to begin with.

this is also great news for the rest of us, -1 in the lift line ahead of me.

cheers mate.


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## Music Moves (Jan 23, 2009)

Triple8Sol said:


>


Gonna need one of those, 888... gotta be Bataleon.

Yep, just found it and ordered... makes me wanna go buy a Bataleon board now...


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