# Boots size problems.



## poser (Mar 7, 2018)

Try a heel insert from Tognar (under $10). That will jack your heel up just a bit and relieve some pressure on your toe.


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## Kenai (Dec 15, 2013)

Read the boot fitting threads and post up more actual length and width measurements for @Wiredsport to help. (I’m not sure how much you are taking about measurements versus your shoe size. Also, the picture in the sock doesn’t help - just post barefoot pics.)

Your 11.5” toe of your left foot in that picture is 29.2 cm, which is ideally an 11.5 boot. It may be that you have wide feet, which would also make the normal boot feel too short. That’s why you need to post up more measurements.


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

divesnowsurf said:


> Hi,
> 
> My shoes are usually 11 1/2 or 12 depending on the brand. The actual measurements of my left foot at just over 11 1/2. Nonetheless, size 12 snowboard boots hurt a lot!
> 
> ...


Hi,

Your foot measurement has you at just under 11.5 inches which is 29.21 cm. This is on the small end of the range for Mondopoint 295 or size 11.5 US in snowboard boots. Your socks however appear to be very bulky. If that is correct this is the first thing that you should change. Thick socks are strongly suggested against for snowboarding for a variety of reasons. You will likely end up in a size 11.5 but to answer your question, no, size 13 should not be a consideration. 

STOKED!


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## divesnowsurf (Nov 28, 2018)

Thanks Wiredsport and others that responded here. Before posting, I have scoured many threads about boot sizing here and other forums. As I have foot on the bigger side, I have read a lot on low profile boots and boot fitting.

I have read a lot of your posts, and checked your measurements website as well.

While the left foot is indeed around 293mm, the right is more like 288mm. The sock I wear is actually not bulky, not much thicker than a regular white sport sock.

My foot is on the flat side, so it does pronate some, making it wider, and longer (i believe). 

About the size, did you see how my big toe pushes the liner? Isn't it an ideal foot fitting rule of thumb for the toes to just light brush against the end of the liner?

Thanks


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## Kenai (Dec 15, 2013)

divesnowsurf said:


> About the size, did you see how my big toe pushes the liner? Isn't it an ideal foot fitting rule of thumb for the toes to just light brush against the end of the liner?
> 
> Thanks


The width measurement is really important here, too. If your foot is wide and in a normal boot, you’d be surprised how much that different shape affects the length as well. It is entirely possible you would not be pushing the liner (or at least not any more) in a smaller, wider boot.

Also, you want firm pressure on the end, not a light touch. If you start with a light touch, you will end with loose space.


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## divesnowsurf (Nov 28, 2018)

Kenai said:


> The width measurement is really important here, too. If your foot is wide and in a normal boot, you’d be surprised how much that different shape affects the length as well. It is entirely possible you would not be pushing the liner (or at least not any more) in a smaller, wider boot.
> 
> Also, you want firm pressure on the end, not a light touch. If you start with a light touch, you will end with loose space.


I get that a wider boot might accommodate my foot better, but that picture is just the liner which is very soft, my width pushes the sides of the liner easily. How is it that if it were wider my toe wouldn't stick out? Unless the wide boot liners are also a bit longer. no?

Thanks


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## Kenai (Dec 15, 2013)

divesnowsurf said:


> I get that a wider boot might accommodate my foot better, but that picture is just the liner which is very soft, my width pushes the sides of the liner easily. How is it that if it were wider my toe wouldn't stick out? Unless the wide boot liners are also a bit longer. no?
> 
> Thanks


I understand your point as it shouldn’t be changing the shape of your feet much, but I’m not sure the liner pics really show much that is useful. That’s really Wired’s call. The key with the measurements is that they are objective - the boots are built to accommodate certain dimensions. While different boots have a slightly different shape/fit, it should not be an entirely different size. 

Have you measured your width yet?


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

divesnowsurf said:


> Thanks Wiredsport and others that responded here. Before posting, I have scoured many threads about boot sizing here and other forums. As I have foot on the bigger side, I have read a lot on low profile boots and boot fitting.
> 
> I have read a lot of your posts, and checked your measurements website as well.
> 
> ...


Hi,

288 is mid range for Mondopoint 290 or size 11 in snowboard boots. Even sport socks are much thicker than snowboard socks and can easily add more than a half size (5 mm) to your foot size. The first thing that you will want to do is to find a set of thin snowboard socks.

For width please place the inside (medial side) of your foot against a wall. Please then measure from the wall out to the widest point on the lateral (outside) of your foot.

STOKED!


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## double (Dec 9, 2011)

You might want to try to have the boots heat-molded by Burton or board shop with the Burton toe inserts. I had a pair of Ions heat molded that way and it definitely added some needed space and comfort. Good luck!


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## speedjason (May 2, 2013)

Also you never mention what is hurting. The toes? The sides?


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## divesnowsurf (Nov 28, 2018)

speedjason said:


> Also you never mention what is hurting. The toes? The sides?


Mainly the big toe on the left foot. There were some other aches, but I think part of getting used to the new boots, and maybe over-tightening the BOA (first time).


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## divesnowsurf (Nov 28, 2018)

Wiredsport said:


> Hi,
> 
> 288 is mid range for Mondopoint 290 or size 11 in snowboard boots. Even sport socks are much thicker than snowboard socks and can easily add more than a half size (5 mm) to your foot size. The first thing that you will want to do is to find a set of thin snowboard socks.
> 
> ...



Thanks everyone! Took width measurement, a tad past 3 3/4". See new pictures attached without socks. You can see that even without socks, the big toe sticks out of the liner and the insole.

Thanks again


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

divesnowsurf said:


> Thanks everyone! Took width measurement, a tad past 3 3/4". See new pictures attached with socks. You can see that even without socks, the big toe sticks out of the liner and the insole.
> 
> Thanks again


Hi DSS,

3 3/4 is very narrow at your size. That is just above a B width at the lowest possible C. Mens snowboard boots are D width so you are a full size too small (almost 2) in terms of width. This can create some issues in your boots such as foot fatigue (from the foot trying to stabilize itself in a boot which is too wide) and motion (a foot that is too narrow will have less resistance to moving back an forth inside the boot). 

Your boot is actually larger than suggested in terms of length and width. In a boot which is correctly sized your bare boot will always overhang the insert/footbed (1 cm of overhang is typical) and will always have firm pressure into the compliant materials of the liner. That is not only normal, it is required. I would strongly suggest that you get rid of those socks and pick up a few sets of thin snowboard socks. 

STOKED!


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## divesnowsurf (Nov 28, 2018)

Wiredsport said:


> Hi DSS,
> 
> 3 3/4 is very narrow at your size. That is just above a B width at the lowest possible C. Mens snowboard boots are D width so you are a full size too small (almost 2) in terms of width. This can create some issues in your boots such as foot fatigue (from the foot trying to stabilize itself in a boot which is too wide) and motion (a foot that is too narrow will have less resistance to moving back an forth inside the boot).
> 
> STOKED!


Maybe it's considered narrow by the book, but due to overpronation or maybe the it's shape, does not feel narrow in boots or most shoes. When buying shoes I actually have to disconsider many because my foot pushes too much against the side walls. Sometimes I can feel the edge of the insoles under my foot.





Wiredsport said:


> Hi DSS,
> 
> 
> Your boot is actually larger than suggested in terms of length and width. In a boot which is correctly sized your bare boot will always overhang the insert/footbed (1 cm of overhang is typical) and will always have firm pressure into the compliant materials of the liner. That is not only normal, it is required. I would strongly suggest that you get rid of those socks and pick up a few sets of thin snowboard socks.
> ...


The picture above is without socks. So it's normal to push the liner that much without socks? I also feel it pushing against the shell without socks. Why most fitting guides say it should just brush against the shell?

Maybe using a shoe stretcher could help?

I can still return this at sports basement, maybe I just need to try other brands and see if they are more comfortable?

I understand boots pack up, but I can't wait several seasons for it to happen, like I said I get maybe 5 days a season, but I charge hard each time. Usually without breaks except for lift lines.

Thanks


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

divesnowsurf said:


> Maybe it's considered narrow by the book, but due to overpronation or maybe the it's shape, does not feel narrow in boots or most shoes. When buying shoes I actually have to disconsider many because my foot pushes too much against the side walls. Sometimes I can feel the edge of the insoles under my foot.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Hi,

Your foot is significantly narrow in comparison with the average foot size that is used for developing all footwear. This is important in that you have much less foot width inside your boots to resist sliding forward than other riders. You would not want to stretch your boots as they are already above the suggested size for your foot. 

I would again strongly suggest that you get rid of those socks and get a thin set of snowboarding socks.

STOKED!


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## divesnowsurf (Nov 28, 2018)

Wiredsport said:


> Hi,
> 
> Your foot is significantly narrow in comparison with the average foot size that is used for developing all footwear. This is important in that you have much less foot width inside your boots to resist sliding forward than other riders. You would not want to stretch your boots as they are already above the suggested size for your foot.
> 
> ...


Any recommendations for think socks?

Thanks


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

Smartwool lights are a good option.


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## divesnowsurf (Nov 28, 2018)

Wiredsport said:


> Smartwool lights are a good option.


Wanted to provide an update here. Got the smartwool lights. Doesn't really feel any thinner than the Wigwam socks I was using before. Tried with the boots, and still feel tight with the toe pushing against the end, with some discomfort. 

Also got the same boots in wide just to try it out, no difference.

So decided to go back and try my old Forum SLR 13. Big toe just brushing against the end. But yeah, after many years probably packed up a bit. But this boot was never too tight, even new. 

I thought I should compare the outside dimensions of the two boots. The Forum SLR 13 (which was essentially a Burton Ruler, I believe) with the Burton Photon 12. The 13 is actually a tad smaller than the 12! What's up with the whole "Shrinkage, low profile" claims?

I also tried putting the liner without my socks, just like I did with the Burton. Remember in the Burton 12 my big toe was really pushing the liner. Doesn't happen with the Forum 13. But how come the overall dimensions of the 13 are smaller?

Anyway, I am going tomorrow to the Burton store and see what they say. Probably try heat molding. And will report back here. 

Thanks


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

divesnowsurf said:


> Wanted to provide an update here. Got the smartwool lights. Doesn't really feel any thinner than the Wigwam socks I was using before. Tried with the boots, and still feel tight with the toe pushing against the end, with some discomfort.
> 
> Also got the same boots in wide just to try it out, no difference.
> 
> ...


Hi,

You are on the right track with your smaller socks. Again there is nothing unusual about pushing into the liner. Liners are flexible. You are pressuring it more with your big toe so you will see it there from the outside. This is fine. That is due to the (very common) shape of your foot. The 13 would not do this as it is far too large for your feet and will not have sufficient contact over time. If you are looking at alternate boots I would suggest the Flow Talon in size 11.5. It is the correct size for your foot measurements and is our best option for narrow feet such as yours. Outside boot dimensions (and external liner dimensions) are not related to the foot size that will work with the boots.

STOKED!


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## iloveass (Jan 2, 2019)

Wiredsport said:


> divesnowsurf said:
> 
> 
> > Hi,
> ...


I have a properly sized 32 boot in size 9 but my footbed is says 9.5-10. Does that sound right to you


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

iloveass said:


> I have a properly sized 32 boot in size 9 but my footbed is says 9.5-10. Does that sound right to you


What is the end to end length on that footbed? Was this the stock footbed? Are they both that way (they can get shuffled in the store)?

STOKED!


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## divesnowsurf (Nov 28, 2018)

Wiredsport said:


> Hi,
> 
> You are on the right track with your smaller socks. Again there is nothing unusual about pushing into the liner. Liners are flexible. You are pressuring it more with your big toe so you will see it there from the outside. This is fine. That is due to the (very common) shape of your foot. The 13 would not do this as it is far too large for your feet and will not have sufficient contact over time. If you are looking at alternate boots I would suggest the Flow Talon in size 11.5. It is the correct size for your foot measurements and is our best option for narrow feet such as yours. Outside boot dimensions (and external liner dimensions) are not related to the foot size that will work with the boots.
> 
> STOKED!


Wanted to send out an update. Last weekend took the boots to sports basement, we did a heat mold that maybe helped a tiny tiny bit. We talked about insoles and they brought me 3 options from Surefoot. The blue, green and red. Surprisingly, the red one which is the thickest seemed to help the most, maybe because the arch support did a better job at positioning my foot. Each had a different arch profile. But I was surprised as being the thickest of the 3 it would give me less space in the toe area. I didn't need to cut the insert.

Went to Tahoe this Monday, bluebird dream like powder day. Also rode groomers while moving around the mountain. Definitely had less pain than before, but still some. Big toe pushing against the outer shell. My friend lent me a boot stretcher and I will try to get a little more space, hopefully it will give the extra space I need.

Thanks


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## SlvrDragon50 (Mar 25, 2017)

divesnowsurf said:


> Wanted to send out an update. Last weekend took the boots to sports basement, we did a heat mold that maybe helped a tiny tiny bit. We talked about insoles and they brought me 3 options from Surefoot. The blue, green and red. Surprisingly, the red one which is the thickest seemed to help the most, maybe because the arch support did a better job at positioning my foot. Each had a different arch profile. But I was surprised as being the thickest of the 3 it would give me less space in the toe area. I didn't need to cut the insert.
> 
> Went to Tahoe this Monday, bluebird dream like powder day. Also rode groomers while moving around the mountain. Definitely had less pain than before, but still some. Big toe pushing against the outer shell. My friend lent me a boot stretcher and I will try to get a little more space, hopefully it will give the extra space I need.
> 
> Thanks


Do you have a heel lift wedge in your boot? Might help and a very easy test.

https://www.tognar.com/heel-lifts-pair/


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## divesnowsurf (Nov 28, 2018)

SlvrDragon50 said:


> Do you have a heel lift wedge in your boot? Might help and a very easy test.
> 
> https://www.tognar.com/heel-lifts-pair/


I don't but the insoles lift the heels a bit. These wedges seem to increase forward leaning, which could would push my toes more.

Did you use one to alleviate toe pressure?

Thanks


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## SlvrDragon50 (Mar 25, 2017)

divesnowsurf said:


> I don't but the insoles lift the heels a bit. These wedges seem to increase forward leaning, which could would push my toes more.
> 
> Did you use one to alleviate toe pressure?
> 
> Thanks


So it doesn't seem completely intuitive, but the idea is the heel wedge increases the forward lean, pulling your foot backwards giving you more space for your big toe.


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