# Chairman on the Chairman



## The Chairman (Aug 17, 2009)

The Never Summer Chairman








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Hey everyone, it’s Vince from Never Summer (AKA The Chairman of the Board). This season Never Summer did me the honor of naming a board after me that I helped design. The board fits my riding style perfectly, but it wasn’t designed for me. I’ve noticed some posts on here recently that relate to the development of this board so I figured I share this with you all. 

In 2012 we started working on a board that would help one of our riders get better results in his Boardercross races, yet build a board that could be ridden all over the mountain. We made 3 different prototypes Tristan settled on a board he loved. Shortly after he ended up winning the USASA Nationals on this board. Tristan was the only competitor riding a hybrid camber board and only competitor riding a board not specifically design for BX.

I started riding one of the prototypes we made for Tristan and couldn’t believe how much I like this board. I talked this thing up all over Never Summer and soon enough our Production Director, BJ, started riding one. The edge hold was phenomenal, the board was incredibly fast, super stable and the flex was right where I needed it. We knew something was incredibly right about this board but a few key changes could make this thing even better. The night before the 2013 SIA tradeshow BJ and I put the finishing touches on what would be the final Chairman prototype to give to some key retailers to test. We stayed super late making these boards (mostly BJ) and both got multiple calls from our wives. I remember thinking wow how cool is this! We’re making boards at midnight before a trade show. Thanks to a brand new edge bender that BJ designed, a revised (straighter) version of our Vario Powergrip sidecut was born that utilizes an extra 2-radi for additional contact points. Our goal was to create a board with the stability of our Premier with the agile ride of the Raptor. We only really needed one directional big mountain freeriding board in our line, but we wanted to make the best one possible. To top it off we used the Maiden Trooper/Bear graphic we had created for the show and sublimated it onto a carbonium topsheet. 

After resounding positive feedback at the show and on snow it was decided this would become the replacement for the Premier and Raptor for 2014/15. We wanted a nice directional shape and looked to Craig Kelly’s first signature model for inspiration. I had ridden on Sims Team 1 with Craig and later met him at the first Wolf Creek contest when he was riding a blank board in a white speed suit and tweaking so hard in the makeshift halfpipe. The last time I saw him was after a contest at Purgatory Resort where he was nice enough to hobble over to me on crutches with a broken ankle and ask me how I did. I was a big fan before and even bigger after this. I also wanted the board to be tapered, not just to allow the tail to sink in deep pow and nose to rise, but also to allow the tail to not get hung up when sliding it around. I like to “paint brush” turns in steeps to control speed. 

I also wanted to increase the damping to more old school Never Summer construction. We found that with the inherent lively feel of Rocker Camber you could increase the amount of rubber in the board without it feeling dead or over damp. Also with our new superlight genetically altered wood cores we didn’t have to worry about the extra weight the rubber would add. Our boards are on par or lighter in weight than any other brand on the market while maintaining our signature stable ride and durability. 

To further increase stability we added our Harmonic Dampers and a Carbon X that runs from outside insert to outside insert. I immediately tested pre-running the GS course at a disabled event in Winter Park. I was able to run the course top to bottom without slide slipping, something I wasn’t able to do on a Raptor, Premier, traditional cambered board or CamRock snowboard. However, I really didn’t want a board that was too much of a beast to ride so we added our Extended Transition Rocker Camber Profile. This flat section or extended transition area allows fluid turn initiation and easy transition edge to edge at slower speeds, making the Chairman the perfect board for a rider looking to ride groomers, trees and bowls, yet remains firm for edge hold at high speeds.

To finish the board graphically our Creative Director, Jeremy Salyer (who is incredibly talented and considerate), remembered that I had a design concept that had some wood grain in it. He took a picture of a mountain, another of some barn wood and created a painting like rustic look with a classic Never Summer mountain graphic.

In the end I think we’ve created one of the lightest, most fluid, yet aggressive carving/turning, and floating freeride board out there today. The board is perfect for me because I like to carve, carve, no slide my way down the mountain. Look for me out there on my namesake…I’ll be easy to find, just follow the trenches.








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T2S Registration | Never Summer Industries - Snowboards, Longboards, Clothing and Accessories


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## Manicmouse (Apr 7, 2014)

Thanks Chairman! It was a good read. It's great to hear what happens behind the scenes.

Added the board to my list of boards to consider for the next season down under.

"The edge hold was phenomenal, the board was incredibly fast, super stable and the flex was right where I needed it." - Sounds exactly like what I want.


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## Steezus Christ (Jul 29, 2013)

all aboard the hype train...


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## deagol (Mar 26, 2014)

Nice, sounds awesome. I love my Raptor and was wondering why it was discontinued.. sounds like this board is the reason.

Really nice write up about Craig Kelley. He was our hero back in those days.. also, I was a Purgatory season pass holder for about 8 years, great memories there. The equipment sure has come a long way since those days..


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## radiomuse210 (Sep 5, 2014)

Nice to read the story behind it. My brother was looking at the Chairman or the Proto. He isn't quite sure where he wants to take his riding yet, so we may just go through this season and find his "niche" within snowboarding - he's been a skier most of his life.

I'm saving up to hopefully get my hands on an Infinity before the season is out. Fingers crossed it all works out!


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## SnowDragon (Apr 23, 2012)

He's the chairman of the company.
You expected him to come out and say that the new board was alright? No big deal?
He'd better hype it!


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## SnowDogWax (Nov 8, 2013)

Love hearing the story behind the board...


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## Manicmouse (Apr 7, 2014)

Steezus Christ said:


> all aboard the hype train...


I'm already on the NS hype train!


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## KansasNoob (Feb 24, 2013)

radiomuse210 said:


> Nice to read the story behind it. My brother was looking at the Chairman or the Proto. He isn't quite sure where he wants to take his riding yet, so we may just go through this season and find his "niche" within snowboarding - he's been a skier most of his life.
> 
> I'm saving up to hopefully get my hands on an Infinity before the season is out. Fingers crossed it all works out!


Proto is a blast, if you can demo a small one I'd say try it lol. I like mine. It's not magic or anything but it's definitely fun. Holds up with a little speed, even with my riding.


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## SnowRock (Feb 28, 2011)

Absolutely love my raptor... Converted a relatively old (35) get off my lawn camber guy to a believer in the rocker camber profile. Will definitely look for a chance to demo the chairman and I'm sure it will be a top choice when I get the new board itch in another year or so.


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## radiomuse210 (Sep 5, 2014)

KansasNoob said:


> Proto is a blast, if you can demo a small one I'd say try it lol. I like mine. It's not magic or anything but it's definitely fun. Holds up with a little speed, even with my riding.


Hahaha I don't think there is one small enough.  I'm pretty small so I ride upper 130s - low 140s. I think the Proto would be a blast for my brother though. Infinity is my next one for sure - might need a little bit of a miracle to get it anytime soon though. >.<


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## OU812 (Feb 2, 2013)

Hype or not, fanboyism or whatever its nice to see employees from companies come on here and be involved in the community.


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## SnowDogWax (Nov 8, 2013)

OU812 said:


> Hype or not, fanboyism or whatever its nice to see employees from companies come on here and be involved in the community.


+ 1

:jumping1::


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## The Chairman (Aug 17, 2009)

Manicmouse said:


> Thanks Chairman! It was a good read. It's great to hear what happens behind the scenes.
> 
> Added the board to my list of boards to consider for the next season down under.
> 
> "The edge hold was phenomenal, the board was incredibly fast, super stable and the flex was right where I needed it." - Sounds exactly like what I want.


Thanks man.

If you do decide to get one let me know what you think.

How was your season?


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## The Chairman (Aug 17, 2009)

deagol said:


> Nice, sounds awesome. I love my Raptor and was wondering why it was discontinued.. sounds like this board is the reason.
> 
> Really nice write up about Craig Kelley. He was our hero back in those days.. also, I was a Purgatory season pass holder for about 8 years, great memories there. The equipment sure has come a long way since those days..


It was a hard decision, the Raptor is a great board with so many good attributes. But, I felt we had those and than some with the Chairman.

He was a class act. I had a lot of good times there as well. I'll have to get back down there this season. Were you there when you had to get a certified before you could get a pass? Too funny you had to go up with an instructor, show him you could ride and than go get your ticket. I wish I still had the card. It sure has changed since those days.


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## The Chairman (Aug 17, 2009)

radiomuse210 said:


> Nice to read the story behind it. My brother was looking at the Chairman or the Proto. He isn't quite sure where he wants to take his riding yet, so we may just go through this season and find his "niche" within snowboarding - he's been a skier most of his life.
> 
> I'm saving up to hopefully get my hands on an Infinity before the season is out. Fingers crossed it all works out!


They're obviously two distinct boards. I'm just glad he wants to snowboard.


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## Seppuccu (Dec 4, 2012)

The Chairman said:


> Also with our new superlight genetically altered wood cores ...


Genetically altered wood cores you say? I don't know man, I'm really critical about this whole GMO business. 

Anyway the board looks and sounds pretty rad, like many other of your boards, and I will seriously consider NS boards again once you lay off you lay of your OK USA VOTE FOR AMERICAN SNOWBOARDING image. 

With kind regards,
The European



radiomuse210 said:


> Hahaha I don't think there is one small enough.  I'm pretty small so I ride upper 130s - low 140s.


And I thought my ex was THE smallest female rider with her 102 lbs - and she rides a 145. Although I claim it's too big for her...


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## FrankH (Sep 15, 2012)

Vince, 

Really glad to see NS getting a little more progressive in their freeride shapes with the Chariman and Prospector. I've been holding off getting a raptor for several seasons now since I couldn't tell much of a difference between it and my Heritage the several times I've demoed it. I hope the increased stiffness, large side cut radius, taper, and extended (dare I say rockered?) tips will help me hold and edge on steeps and plane better in pow. 

I picked up a 164 Chairman this year I am beyond stoked to get it on some gnarly terrain. Any comments on how it handles cliff drops? I keep washing out on landings with my heritage, and hope the stiffer tail of the Chairman will help out on that.


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## radiomuse210 (Sep 5, 2014)

Anticrobotic said:


> And I thought my ex was THE smallest female rider with her 102 lbs - and she rides a 145. Although I claim it's too big for her...


i'm about that weight at 4'11 and I don't think I'd like to go above 142 - especially since most of my experience has been on boards 136-139. I do think I want to take it a little bigger as I progress - hence my thoughts on the 142 Infinity. I like that it has a softer flex while still being quite damp. Anything above med-soft feels stiff to me and it's hard for me to flex for ollies, presses, etc. but I think the Infinity has better capabilities for faster all mountain riding (besides just upping the length) that my Onyx may lack as I get to that point. Still want to hang on to the Onyx for those park runs. I would imagine the Raven, with it's lowest size a 146 and stiffer flex, would be too aggressive for what I like to do. 

Btw if Vince if there are any 142 Infinitys hanging around up there and you guys felt the need to hook a lady up... :embarrased1:  

I kid, I kid


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## buggravy (Feb 19, 2008)

Thanks for the write up and background, Chairman. I'm really stoked on this board after the few days I had on it late last season. I was pretty surprised just how versatile it felt to me, unlike its predecessors. It's easily the most confidence inspiring board I've been on for getting after it. I like it so much that I just grabbed a second one in the next size up (TGAK collab version).


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## linvillegorge (Jul 6, 2009)

Vince,

Serious question... any plans on NS branching away from the pure rocker camber profiles in the future? Maybe something with a camrock style profile or even good old traditional camber again?


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## buggravy (Feb 19, 2008)

linvillegorge said:


> Vince,
> 
> Serious question... any plans on NS branching away from the pure rocker camber profiles in the future? Maybe something with a camrock style profile or even good old traditional camber again?


FWIW, as far as I can tell all the D-Day boards are cambered Snowtroopers.


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## deagol (Mar 26, 2014)

The Chairman said:


> .... Were you there when you had to get a certified before you could get a pass? Too funny you had to go up with an instructor, show him you could ride and than go get your ticket. I wish I still had the card. It sure has changed since those days.


No, I don't remember having to do that.. I was there from about 1990-98. My brother worked the snowmaking crew and he had a friend who was an instructor. 

There was a much smaller, closer community of boarders back then. I think Tim Windell was a regular up there for a while, but left before I showed up.


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## Manicmouse (Apr 7, 2014)

The Chairman said:


> Thanks man.
> 
> If you do decide to get one let me know what you think.
> 
> How was your season?


Short  Couldn't get the logistics sorted out this year for various reasons! Had some great days though, got some pics here: http://www.snowboardingforum.com/au...01-new-zealand-2014-season-3.html#post1793050
Looking forward to having a decent season when the little ones are able to ski or ride.

Probably heading through the States on my way back from a wedding in London July 2015 so will see what end of season gear I can pick up (new or used).


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## The Chairman (Aug 17, 2009)

FrankH said:


> Vince,
> 
> Really glad to see NS getting a little more progressive in their freeride shapes with the Chariman and Prospector. I've been holding off getting a raptor for several seasons now since I couldn't tell much of a difference between it and my Heritage the several times I've demoed it. I hope the increased stiffness, large side cut radius, taper, and extended (dare I say rockered?) tips will help me hold and edge on steeps and plane better in pow.
> 
> I picked up a 164 Chairman this year I am beyond stoked to get it on some gnarly terrain. Any comments on how it handles cliff drops? I keep washing out on landings with my heritage, and hope the stiffer tail of the Chairman will help out on that.


Thanks Frank. The Prospector is the other board I was most involved with developing in the last couple years. The firmer flex and the increased effective edge (the most we've ever had in a board, Rocker Camber or traditional camber) will help you hold an edge steeps. The tapered shape definitely 
helps the Chairman plane off better in deep pow than the Heritage. The Heritage was one of my favorite boards until I got on the Chairman. 

I've dropped cliffs in packed powder, consolidated Spring snow and the tail has stuck without washing out or bouncing me out of the landing. The stiffer flex with the long carbon v's on the bottom of the board, combined with the increased contact area of the low profile tail helps with that. It feels a lot more solid landing off cornices, cliffs and rollers for me than did the Heritage. 

I'm stoked to see what you think of the board. Please post what you do.


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## The Chairman (Aug 17, 2009)

deagol said:


> No, I don't remember having to do that.. I was there from about 1990-98. My brother worked the snowmaking crew and he had a friend who was an instructor.
> 
> There was a much smaller, closer community of boarders back then. I think Tim Windell was a regular up there for a while, but left before I showed up.


Yeah, it was a bit before you were there. Jeez.... I'm old.

It really was a tight community back then.. I met Tim when he woke me up in the parking lot of Wolf Creek because he saw boards on the roof. Back then you were surprised to see other boarders and wanted to meet them. He immediately invited us to ride with him. I thought we were the shit and when I saw Tim I thought "wow people rip down here." He really put Purgatory & SW Colorado on the map for snowboarding. Before that Colorado shred sledding was really centered on Berthoud and Loveland Pass. I have a picture from Purgatory in the early days I'll try to scan and post it.


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## The Chairman (Aug 17, 2009)

Originally Posted by linvillegorge View Post
Vince,

Serious question... any plans on NS branching away from the pure rocker camber profiles in the future? Maybe something with a camrock style profile or even good old traditional camber again?



buggravy said:


> FWIW, as far as I can tell all the D-Day boards are cambered Snowtroopers.


Not under our brand linvillegorge. We're committed to our Rocker Camber and expanding our Ripsaw profiles.

You're right buggravy, we're manufacturing camber boards for D-Day (because it's a kick ass brand and we love what they're doing for snowboarding and they're in it for their passion and love). Also, we're making cambered boards for two shops in Montana, World Boards and Gallatin Alpine Sports.


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## The Chairman (Aug 17, 2009)

Manicmouse said:


> Short  Couldn't get the logistics sorted out this year for various reasons! Had some great days though, got some pics here: http://www.snowboardingforum.com/au...01-new-zealand-2014-season-3.html#post1793050
> Looking forward to having a decent season when the little ones are able to ski or ride.
> 
> Probably heading through the States on my way back from a wedding in London July 2015 so will see what end of season gear I can pick up (new or used).


That's too bad but they grow up quick so enjoy them! Looked like some fun that day though.

If you come to CO, look us up and I'll show you around the factory. Maybe you'll have a layover in Denver, that sounds like the longest trip for a wedding ever.


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## linvillegorge (Jul 6, 2009)

Completely unsolicited feedback here that you're 100% free to ignore...

IMO, it's a big mistake to put all your eggs in the rocker camber basket. They're fun boards for sure, but I'm not sure rocker camber is the answer for every snowboard. Lib Tech really surged in popularity several years ago with their popular Skate Banana and for awhile they were trying to banana everything it seemed, but now they're back to making a variety of different camber profiles, not all of them involving center rocker. Same thing with magnetraction. Seemed like they were trying to slap it on everything for awhile, but now they've wised up and created several different varieties so that they aren't all the super aggressive type.

I'm not saying be like Lib Tech, I'm simply saying beware of the trap of assuming one approach fits all. I know you guys know what you're doing and you build great boards. Hell, I've owned everything from an old cambered Heritage to the Evo, Proto, Cobra, and newer RC'ed Heritage.

But, I'm primarily writing this because I selfishly want y'all to develop something similar to camrock with camber between the bindings and rocker in the tips. Build me a Heritage in that camber profile and I probably get rid of my quiver of boards. It's all I'd ever need.


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## SkullAndXbones (Feb 24, 2014)

in relation to what gorge said, i am actually pretty surprised that there's companies out there that refuse to make a regular cambered board. i was looking at the gnu billy goat last week at a store and i was surprised to see how little of c3btx profile there was (which is supposed to have an overall camber shape). it was basically flat. you really had to look closely to see any shape whatsoever. just gets me wondering sometimes why companies choose to limit their market. when i was buying my new set up a couple years ago i wanted a regular cambered board that was fast and stable so that automatically eliminated certain brands from my decision making. which kinda sucked because i wanted to try out brands like never summer and gnu. but in the end i couldn't be happier with the board i ended up buying.


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## The Chairman (Aug 17, 2009)

SGboarder said:


> What is the setback on the Chairman?


Hey SGboarder,

It's set back .5" on materials and .7 on materials. With the float of Extended Rocker Camber Profile and it's tapered/directional shape we didn't need a lot of setback plus we could keep it more centered over the front of the board for carving. So you can put your weight more over the nose for really pressing into a turn.


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## The Chairman (Aug 17, 2009)

linvillegorge said:


> Completely unsolicited feedback here that you're 100% free to ignore...
> 
> IMO, it's a big mistake to put all your eggs in the rocker camber basket. They're fun boards for sure, but I'm not sure rocker camber is the answer for every snowboard. Lib Tech really surged in popularity several years ago with their popular Skate Banana and for awhile they were trying to banana everything it seemed, but now they're back to making a variety of different camber profiles, not all of them involving center rocker. Same thing with magnetraction. Seemed like they were trying to slap it on everything for awhile, but now they've wised up and created several different varieties so that they aren't all the super aggressive type.
> 
> ...


We never ignore any suggestions, feedback or criticism, the owner of NS is on this forum frequently and looking at what people are talking about.

I've ridden the cam rock Jones Flagship and it's a fine board. Riding it on the sides of the run and on the other side of the rope line could tell it's a really good pow board. But, I felt the Chairman is a better all around free ride board. Just as good or better in the pow and a more powerful carving board. I didn't feel I could get as much pressure over the end contact areas with rocker in the tips as I could on the Chairman. I could dig my turns in much more on my board. I rode the boards back to back all day. Plus, the Rocker Camber felt more lively and snappy, than Camrock or traditional camber. For hop turns it's far better.

Each to his own and maybe it isn't the answer for every snowboarder but we believe it is for most. We don't build a board for every snowboarder if we did we would be building full on race and carving boards. Who knows you might see a cam rock board being produced in our factory for one of our customers, like D-Day and we do make traditional camber boards for the two Montana shops.

We appreciate all your past support and letting us know what you would like to see from us in the future. Send me a PM if you would ever want to come by the factory and I'll loan you a Chairman or get you on one of our Ripsaw profile boards.


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## buggravy (Feb 19, 2008)

SGboarder said:


> and with the long sidecut seems more aimed at long drawn-out carves rather than aggressive quick turns like the Raptor/Heritage...


I was skeptical of the Chairman for that very reason. Really mellow sidecuts are not my thing, but after riding it was I pleasantly surprised, and didn't feel at all like it only wanted to do big sweeping turns. I did feel like the Raptor suffered from that. If it means anything for perspective on the Chairman, I really didn't like the Raptor very much, but love the Heritage.


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## SkullAndXbones (Feb 24, 2014)

hey chairman, would you know if never summer is doing any demos on the east coast this year? preferably in the nj/ny area?


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## radiomuse210 (Sep 5, 2014)

SkullAndXbones said:


> hey chairman, would you know if never summer is doing any demos on the east coast this year? preferably in the nj/ny area?


*cough*mid-atlantic*cough*



I really, really want to try the Infinity before I buy to see how it feels to my current Onyx. And the Raven just for kicks!


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## buggravy (Feb 19, 2008)

SGboarder said:


> Interesting, can you elaborate?


Seems like nobody agrees with me on this, but I felt like the Raptor didn't want to finish out a turn. Like it would turn in hard, but then didn't want to come around. Felt like it wanted to steer, but not really turn, if that makes sense. Not sure what to say specific about the Heritage. It just feels like a kick ass snowboard for me. I don't think I ever called it my favorite board, but I felt more instantly comfortable and familiar with it than any other board.


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## SnowDogWax (Nov 8, 2013)

buggravy said:


> Seems like nobody agrees with me on this, but I felt like the Raptor didn't want to finish out a turn. Like it would turn in hard, but then didn't want to come around. Felt like it wanted to steer, but not really turn, if that makes sense. Not sure what to say specific about the Heritage. It just feels like a kick ass snowboard for me. I don't think I ever called it my favorite board, but I felt more instantly comfortable and familiar with it than any other board.


Sound like a rider problem ....Not board:embarrased1:


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## buggravy (Feb 19, 2008)

SnowDogWax said:


> Sound like a rider problem ....Not board:embarrased1:



Neither really. I just got a board that suits me better, so there's no problem.


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## taco tuesday (Jul 26, 2014)

SkullAndXbones said:


> hey chairman, would you know if never summer is doing any demos on the east coast this year? preferably in the nj/ny area?


Look at their website...


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## radiomuse210 (Sep 5, 2014)

taco tuesday said:


> Look at their website...


Wintergreen, VA: Dec 20-21!! Hell yeah! That will give me time to gauge the feel on my Onyx and compare it to the Infinity. I'm just afraid I'll end up being mad I can't buy it right then and there.


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## Manicmouse (Apr 7, 2014)

The Chairman said:


> That's too bad but they grow up quick so enjoy them! Looked like some fun that day though.
> 
> If you come to CO, look us up and I'll show you around the factory. Maybe you'll have a layover in Denver, that sounds like the longest trip for a wedding ever.


Thanks for the offer! I'd be really keen if I wasn't already planning a stop in Boston to visit friends. I've flown around the world in a week for only a 60th


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## SkullAndXbones (Feb 24, 2014)

i just checked the site, there's no demos listed in my area. any chance there will be more added this year?


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## TimelessDescent (Oct 26, 2014)

Its funny how the NS says they dont make "race boards" but they supposedly built the Chairman to compete in boardercross?


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## skip11 (Jan 28, 2010)

Vince, a few questions 
1. Any plans on making shorter lengths for the chairman?
2. Why do the waist width increases significantly from the smallest size to the next smallest size? e.g. 153 Ripsaw 24.4 ww, 156 ripsaw 25.2 ww, while from 56 to 59 theres only .2 mm increase


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## jdang307 (Feb 6, 2011)

TimelessDescent said:


> Its funny how the NS says they dont make "race boards" but they supposedly built the Chairman to compete in boardercross?


Help him do better, not build a race board. Reading my friend.





> In 2012 we started working on a board that would help one of our riders get better results in his Boardercross races, *yet build a board that could be ridden all over the mountain*


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## TimelessDescent (Oct 26, 2014)

jdang307 said:


> Help him do better, not build a race board. Reading my friend.



Ok Neversummer...do yourselves and your customers a favor and bring back the T5. Youre welcome.


http://www.outdoorreview.com/cat/pr...ver-summer/premier-t5/prd_103604_4194crx.aspx


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## SnowRock (Feb 28, 2011)

SkullAndXbones said:


> i just checked the site, there's no demos listed in my area. any chance there will be more added this year?


I caught a demo at Hunter last year.


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## SkullAndXbones (Feb 24, 2014)

thanks for the heads up. i'll see what hunter has going on this year.


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## The Chairman (Aug 17, 2009)

SGboarder said:


> Thanks for the detail and the explanation.
> 
> But this probably means that the Chairman cannot do what I am looking for - I really want a board somewhere between the Raptor and the Summit.
> Love the Summit for big powder lines but it is not a nimble/quick board. Was going to complement it with a stiff, aggressive big-mountain deck (Raptor, Heritage) for when there is a less than a foot of fresh. Had hopes that the Chairman would let me combine those in one, instead of need two boards.
> But looks like it is much less of a powder board than the Summit and with the long sidecut seems more aimed at long drawn-out carves rather than aggressive quick turns like the Raptor/Heritage...


It is kind of between the Raptor and Summit. The Chairman is nimble and quick edge to edge like the Raptor and being tapered like the Summit will really plane off in pow. I've ridden a Summit Split "My Precious" in very deep conditions and feel the Chairman is as good of a pow board. The Heritage was my go to resort board and I feel the Chairman will gyrate turns as fast. Like Buggravy is trying to convey the straighter sidecut does not equate to just long drawn out carves. The extended transition areas or flat zones allow you to roll into the turn exit out and smoothly transition into the other edge and it is a very progressive sidecut with the deep radi out toward the ends for aggressive quick short turns. In my eyes we really don't need the Summit anymore, you get the float of it in the Chairman and than have a more stable board for riding hardback and carving. We are developing a short, swallow tail pow slasher for that reason. If someone wants that big powder board like a 172 Summit we have that option in the Chairman.


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## The Chairman (Aug 17, 2009)

SkullAndXbones said:


> hey chairman, would you know if never summer is doing any demos on the east coast this year? preferably in the nj/ny area?


We are going to do a bunch of tentative and set demos on East Coast this year (more than ever). I'll post some dates/locations tomorrow. Obviously, our website is updated when we have events locked in.


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## 70'sskater (Mar 20, 2014)

Chairman what lengths will the Swallowtail be? Also if you dont mind me asking what size of the Chairman do u ride and how much do u weigh?


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## vajohn (Jan 12, 2014)

I really want to try one of these. Hope one of the ice coast demo days is somewhere near me. I will be out at breck for a week in early Jan though...could probably demo one out there no problem?


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## radiomuse210 (Sep 5, 2014)

vajohn said:


> I really want to try one of these. Hope one of the ice coast demo days is somewhere near me. I will be out at breck for a week in early Jan though...could probably demo one out there no problem?


Dec 20-21 at Wintergreen. Dec 6(?) at Snowshoe


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## FrankH (Sep 15, 2012)

The Chairman said:


> Thanks Frank. The Prospector is the other board I was most involved with developing in the last couple years. The firmer flex and the increased effective edge (the most we've ever had in a board, Rocker Camber or traditional camber) will help you hold an edge steeps. The tapered shape definitely
> helps the Chairman plane off better in deep pow than the Heritage. The Heritage was one of my favorite boards until I got on the Chairman.
> 
> I've dropped cliffs in packed powder, consolidated Spring snow and the tail has stuck without washing out or bouncing me out of the landing. The stiffer flex with the long carbon v's on the bottom of the board, combined with the increased contact area of the low profile tail helps with that. It feels a lot more solid landing off cornices, cliffs and rollers for me than did the Heritage.
> ...


I got a few laps on my 164 Chairman last Friday at Copper's opening day. Conditions were completely man made, icy, softer and choppy in spots and slush. I'm 6'2" 200lbs, size 10.5 boot. 

It is definitely more forgiving than I expected given the specs. To me it feels like a more stable, faster version of my heritage. At slow speeds it does like to lock into a carve, and almost knocked me on my ass a couple times as I was screwing around on the flat sections. It feels fantastic at high speeds, super grippy on the icy sections, damped out all the chop. I got down the mountain in about half the turns it would usually take. It was great passing ski racers like they were standing still. 

It is my intention to use this board as my daily driver, since my interests are more chutes and steeps rather than groomers or freestyle. It looks like it can handle the speed and has good grip on ice/shitty conditions that may be encountered. The jury is still out on the pow and tree performance until we get more snow. I agree with Vince that this is closer to the summit than any other board they've made recently, given the taper and extended tips. So far its carving ability has been hyped, but I don't think anyone besides the NS guys have really tried it in the steep and deep yet, since most reviews came out late last spring. 

So far im super stoked on it.


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## skip11 (Jan 28, 2010)

@The Chairman: Just in case you missed my questions
1. Any plans on making shorter lengths for the chairman?
2. Why do the waist width increases significantly from the smallest size to the next smallest size? e.g. 153 Ripsaw 24.4 ww, 156 ripsaw 25.2 ww, while from 56 to 59 theres only .2 mm increase


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## Deacon (Mar 2, 2013)

skip11 said:


> @The Chairman: Just in case you missed my questions
> 1. Any plans on making shorter lengths for the chairman?
> 2. Why do the waist width increases significantly from the smallest size to the next smallest size? e.g. 153 Ripsaw 24.4 ww, 156 ripsaw 25.2 ww, while from 56 to 59 theres only .2 mm increase


You think 0.8 cm is significant?

1/3 of one inch. :dunno:


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## The Chairman (Aug 17, 2009)

SkullAndXbones said:


> thanks for the heads up. i'll see what hunter has going on this year.


I just spoke to our NE rep and he tentatively has the Hunter Mountain Demo set for Dec.13th. It's best to check our events page All calendar | Never Summer Industries - Snowboards, Longboards, Clothing and Accessories as we will only post confirmed dates.

Confirmed from our North East Rep for Demos, Georges (yes Georges, he's like two people or Greek) aka the NERD. Georges is a longtime Stowe resident, instructor, super funny guy and very personable. Jake Burton has to drive by his house on his way to the corporate office. Driving by Georges yard loaded with branded trucks and features, it looks like a white trash snowboard compound. The NERD is a super funny guy that is unbelievably passionate about snowboarding and having so much experience teaching will set people up right.

*CONFIRMED NORTH EAST DEMO DATES:*
Nov.29/30th at Sunday River, ME
Dec.13th at Okemo,VT
Dec.16/17 and 20/21 at Killington, VT
* Look for expanded dates/locations as we get them locked in. Come and hang our with the NERD, talk shred and get set up on a new NS board.


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## skip11 (Jan 28, 2010)

@deacon: Yeap it is, try eurocarving with a 24.4 waist and a 25.2 waist and tell me you don't feel a difference. Sure if someone's just skidding their turns and not carving hard it wouldn't be significant.


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## Karpediem (Aug 29, 2007)

skip11 said:


> @deacon: Yeap it is, try eurocarving with a 24.4 waist and a 25.2 waist and tell me you don't feel a difference. Sure if someone's just skidding their turns and not carving hard it wouldn't be significant.


Deacon is more right than you IMO. The waist width is just the measurement in the middle of the board and not reflective of anything else. If you are getting picky then you would take into account the width at the tip/tail and sidecut radius. 0.8cm should not effect if you can carve hard or not. Sounds kind of silly saying you can only carve hard on a board with a waist width of 24.4.


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## linvillegorge (Jul 6, 2009)

If you wanna eurocarve, just get an alpine board with hard boots and take up monoskiing.


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## skip11 (Jan 28, 2010)

@karpediem: I'm saying with a board that narrow and a duck stance, I will get toe drag NOT that I can only carve with a 24.4 ww. I prefer wider waist width.

@linvillegorge: What's wrong with eurocarving? It's not what I do all day but it's fun. Pat bridges does it, Ben ferguson does it, Terje does it, Sage does it, Scotty Arnold does it, Tucker andrews does it, even jibber kids like Dylan Gamache does it. Maybe you should tell all of them to take up monoskiing.


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## Karpediem (Aug 29, 2007)

skip11 said:


> @karpediem: I'm saying with a board that narrow and a duck stance, I will get toe drag NOT that I can only carve with a 24.4 ww. I prefer wider waist width.


You never mentioned toe dragging being an issue. You simply said you can crave hard with one width and would just skid turns with another.


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## Deacon (Mar 2, 2013)

skip11 said:


> @deacon: Yeap it is, try eurocarving with a 24.4 waist and a 25.2 waist and tell me you don't feel a difference. Sure if someone's just skidding their turns and not carving hard it wouldn't be significant.


I'm fairly certain there is carving that can occur somewhere between skidded turns and eurocarves.


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## skip11 (Jan 28, 2010)

> You simply said you can crave hard with one width and would just skid turns with another.


 I never said this. I said if you were skidding turns you prolly won't notice a difference because you're not putting the board on edge on a high angle.

Anyways, I just asked Vince 2 simple questions, why are YOU guys arguing about this. If you guys don't find 0.8 cm significant that's cool, I found it is.


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## The Chairman (Aug 17, 2009)

skip11 said:


> Vince, a few questions
> 1. Any plans on making shorter lengths for the chairman?
> 2. Why do the waist width increases significantly from the smallest size to the next smallest size? e.g. 153 Ripsaw 24.4 ww, 156 ripsaw 25.2 ww, while from 56 to 59 theres only .2 mm increase


Hey Skip,
1. We don't have any plans do the Chairman in a shorter length. For a board of it's type it would be harder to sell some numbers in lengths smaller than 157. The 157 was second to last in the all the sizes for numbers sold. So, it would be hard to talk the owners into doing a smaller size. Plus, we have other offerings in the lower 150's. Cobra, Snowtrooper and obviously Ripsaw. I would like to expand the size offering if the owners, retailers, distributors think there is a market to justify it.
2. Typically we don't start with the waist width width but with the sidecut and let that fall naturally so we aren't restricted by the waist width. We have a general idea of where what the waist width will be but are not letting it dictate the geometry of the board. Also, generally the rider of a 153 is going to have a smaller foot, with the average being between 7-8.5. I know our ripper shipper rides our boards in those size and he has a 8 boot. I agree with you that it is a big jump and we do wider sizes in smaller freestyle/all mountain boards but not in any firm or free ride boards. I do think people are riding with too much overhang.


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## skip11 (Jan 28, 2010)

Thanks for the answer Vince, appreciate your responding questions in forums.


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## Ravaging Rami (Mar 11, 2014)

I just checked the Never Summer calendar and I noticed there are not any demos in WI (i.e: Granite Peak  ). Is that because you are still planning, or is it not going to happen this year?


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## SkullAndXbones (Feb 24, 2014)

The Chairman said:


> I just spoke to our NE rep and he tentatively has the Hunter Mountain Demo set for Dec.13th. It's best to check our events page All calendar | Never Summer Industries - Snowboards, Longboards, Clothing and Accessories as we will only post confirmed dates.
> 
> Confirmed from our North East Rep for Demos, Georges (yes Georges, he's like two people or Greek) aka the NERD. Georges is a longtime Stowe resident, instructor, super funny guy and very personable. Jake Burton has to drive by his house on his way to the corporate office. Driving by Georges yard loaded with branded trucks and features, it looks like a white trash snowboard compound. The NERD is a super funny guy that is unbelievably passionate about snowboarding and having so much experience teaching will set people up right.
> 
> ...


cool. thanks!


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## The Chairman (Aug 17, 2009)

SGboarder said:


> When? Where? How? Got prototypes?
> I love my Summit for the above the treeline stuff in Japan and will keep it for a long time (unless replaced by a Prospector), but I am very much in the market for a stubby swallow tail pow board. Would love to see the NS take on a Fish/Con Artist/420 style deck.


2015/16 line. We do but Tim Canaday the owner/product engineer/designer & shaper of NS has it and he's waiting for snow to pile onto Vail Pass to test.

Our Japanese distributor has been asking for this for awhile so it should be the ticket for your neck of the woods.


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## The Chairman (Aug 17, 2009)

70'sskater said:


> Chairman what lengths will the Swallowtail be? Also if you dont mind me asking what size of the Chairman do u ride and how much do u weigh?


Small 152cm	Medium 157cm	Large 162cm

Not at all. I ride the 161X Chairman and weigh 170lb.


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

Nothing to add, except i think this thread is pretty cool. Your story about the creation of the board and your participation in this thread are nice.

Yea it may be a bit of marketing, but so what. You could have chosen many different ways to market your product; but showing your face and setting yourself up to the "scrutiny" of a group is a valuable thing. I think. So yea... carry on.


BTW eurocarving sucks :hairy:


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## The Chairman (Aug 17, 2009)

Ravaging Rami said:


> I just checked the Never Summer calendar and I noticed there are not any demos in WI (i.e: Granite Peak  ). Is that because you are still planning, or is it not going to happen this year?


Yes, Granite Peak is on the docket. So is Tyrol and another WI resort. He also is planning on doing two in MN, MI, OH and one in IL. We just have not confirmed dates yet but I'll post here asap.


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## Karpediem (Aug 29, 2007)

The Chairman said:


> He also is planning on doing two in MN, MI, OH and one in IL. We just have not confirmed dates yet but I'll post here asap.


Where in Michigan?


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## The Chairman (Aug 17, 2009)

FrankH said:


> I got a few laps on my 164 Chairman last Friday at Copper's opening day. Conditions were completely man made, icy, softer and choppy in spots and slush. I'm 6'2" 200lbs, size 10.5 boot.
> 
> It is definitely more forgiving than I expected given the specs. To me it feels like a more stable, faster version of my heritage. At slow speeds it does like to lock into a carve, and almost knocked me on my ass a couple times as I was screwing around on the flat sections. It feels fantastic at high speeds, super grippy on the icy sections, damped out all the chop. I got down the mountain in about half the turns it would usually take. It was great passing ski racers like they were standing still.
> 
> ...


Thanks for posting this Frank. Look forward to your verdict on the performance in pow and steeps. If it keeps coming down here like it has in the last week it won't be long before you do encounter that kind of terrain and conditions.


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## The Chairman (Aug 17, 2009)

Karpediem said:


> Where in Michigan?


Cannonsburg and Bittersweet are on the agenda but again, nothing is confirmed.


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## Karpediem (Aug 29, 2007)

^ Works perfect for me!


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## TimelessDescent (Oct 26, 2014)

Can the Chairman comfortably slasher bomb at high speeds? I like my freeride boards to be able to boardslide similar to a longboard if I feel like checking my speed that way. Im not wanting to dig a trench all day. This may not be important to some people in the market for this type of board but it is to me. heres what Im talking about. 


Snowboarding in SlowMo: Slasher Bombs (GoPro Black 3+ @120 fps) - YouTube


I would like to see more vids of people riding the chairman in different ways, but I will ultimately take you up on your offer of trying out the Chairman on a demo day.


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## Steezus Christ (Jul 29, 2013)

TimelessDescent said:


> Can the Chairman comfortably slasher bomb at high speeds? I like my freeride boards to be able to boardslide similar to a longboard if I feel like checking my speed that way. Im not wanting to dig a trench all day. This may not be important to some people in the market for this type of board but it is to me. heres what Im talking about.
> 
> 
> Snowboarding in SlowMo: Slasher Bombs (GoPro Black 3+ @120 fps) - YouTube
> ...


:facepalm3::facepalm1:


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## Deacon (Mar 2, 2013)

If it's been said once.... rider > board.


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## deagol (Mar 26, 2014)

TimelessDescent said:


> Can the Chairman comfortably slasher bomb at high speeds? ...
> 
> Snowboarding in SlowMo: Slasher Bombs (GoPro Black 3+ @120 fps) - YouTube
> 
> ...


looks like a good way to dull your edges.. and scrape the snow down to ice..


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## Manicmouse (Apr 7, 2014)

deagol said:


> .. and scrape the snow down to ice..


Sounding a little like a skier there  

Those damn snowboarders ruining my corduroy!


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## deagol (Mar 26, 2014)

haven't been a downhill skier since 1987, I just hate ice....


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

Manicmouse said:


> Sounding a little like a skier there
> 
> Those damn snowboarders ruining my corduroy!


I once asked a skier on the lift: so, how's the snow? 

"Oh it's great! nice and firm."

:facepalm3:


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## TimelessDescent (Oct 26, 2014)

Steezus Christ said:


> :facepalm3::facepalm1:




Haha....you will just never get it so stop trying.


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## TimelessDescent (Oct 26, 2014)

deagol said:


> looks like a good way to dull your edges.. and scrape the snow down to ice..



You arent really dulling your edges doing this lol. What Im trying to point out is that it appears to me that the chairman just wants to lock into a carve when you get some angle on it. If I wanted to buy a Eurocarve board or an Alpine board i can do that...I dont need to buy a Chairman.


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## TimelessDescent (Oct 26, 2014)

Deacon said:


> If it's been said once.... rider > board.




Thanks captain obvious. That still doesnt have anything to do with the fact that one board is going to do something better than another board....and that some people choose to buy their equipment based on these facts.


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## Manicmouse (Apr 7, 2014)

TimelessDescent said:


> If I wanted to buy a Eurocarve board or an Alpine board i can do that...I dont need to buy a Chairman.


Did you even read the thread? I think what the board excels at has been covered pretty well.


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## Deacon (Mar 2, 2013)

TimelessDescent said:


> Thanks captain obvious. That still doesnt have anything to do with the fact that one board is going to do something better than another board....and that some people choose to buy their equipment based on these facts.


You didn't ask if it was as easy to do this as others boards. You asked if it was possible for the chairman to do it. My bad, maybe you were asking if _Vince_ could? :dunno:


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## TimelessDescent (Oct 26, 2014)

It was kind of a stupid post sorry guys. I already know the answer for me so I guess I was just being stupid. 

Heres an example of how I want my freeride board to ride. This kid is no better than a solid intermediate and he is riding a 166cm camber board effortlessly. I hope that when I ride a much smaller chairman it will be as friendly in tight situations. Just watch at around 0:28 seconds the quick carves this average joe does with this board. This guy is just cruising really...imagine if a higher level rider was charging on it.

Softboot carving Nitro Pantera - YouTube


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## The Chairman (Aug 17, 2009)

TimelessDescent said:


> Can the Chairman comfortably slasher bomb at high speeds? I like my freeride boards to be able to boardslide similar to a longboard if I feel like checking my speed that way. Im not wanting to dig a trench all day. This may not be important to some people in the market for this type of board but it is to me. heres what Im talking about.
> 
> 
> Snowboarding in SlowMo: Slasher Bombs (GoPro Black 3+ @120 fps) - YouTube
> ...



I know what you're talking about and I like to do toe and heelsiders too (especially toe sliders). Like you said it's a good way to check your speed on groomers and it's also a good way to get toe-side face shots (guy in the video got some monster ones). I have never slid on rails, boxes or logs but I to do love to boardslide lips on the sides of runs. The Chairman will slide when hauling ass without wanting to grab and then you can go back into a carve. I love doing this late in the day under the Superbee at Cooper.


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## SkullAndXbones (Feb 24, 2014)

hey chairman, what do you think is the fastest never summer board? in case i make it to a demo i'll know which one to try before hand.


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## The Chairman (Aug 17, 2009)

SkullAndXbones said:


> hey chairman, what do you think is the fastest never summer board? in case i make it to a demo i'll know which one to try before hand.


Obviously you can go fast on any board. Our team rider Nick Larson hauls ass on a Proto. For me it's all about being able to recover and I feel in variable conditions I can ride an RC board faster than I could other profiles because it's less likely to catch an edge and easier to recover. 

It's also all about stability and a firmer/damp board will be more stable and faster. So, *I would have to say the Chairman is the fastest board in our line.* It has the longest running length and effective edge than any board we've ever made in a comparable size, plus twice the amount of elastomer rubber than any modern NS board. 
But, *it's all about what a rider is most comfortable on* and their ability.


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## radiomuse210 (Sep 5, 2014)

A little off topic - do you guys ever end up selling boards you use in demos? I'm in the market for an 142 Infinity (as mentioned earlier) but full retail is killing it for me. Besides just finding used/older model gear on sale in the usual places, does Never Summer ever sell demo/used/older model boards?


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## SkullAndXbones (Feb 24, 2014)

The Chairman said:


> Obviously you can go fast on any board. Our team rider Nick Larson hauls ass on a Proto. For me it's all about being able to recover and I feel in variable conditions I can ride an RC board faster than I could other profiles because it's less likely to catch an edge and easier to recover.
> 
> It's also all about stability and a firmer/damp board will be more stable and faster. So, *I would have to say the Chairman is the fastest board in our line.* It has the longest running length and effective edge than any board we've ever made in a comparable size, plus twice the amount of elastomer rubber than any modern NS board.
> But, *it's all about what a rider is most comfortable on* and their ability.


cool. thanks. glad to hear the chairman is stable at high speeds. don't wanna ride a board that gets cold feet when you point it straight haha.


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## The Chairman (Aug 17, 2009)

radiomuse210 said:


> A little off topic - do you guys ever end up selling boards you use in demos? I'm in the market for an 142 Infinity (as mentioned earlier) but full retail is killing it for me. Besides just finding used/older model gear on sale in the usual places, does Never Summer ever sell demo/used/older model boards?


Generally we don't sell anything direct and older demos are either sold to retailers or we keep at the factory to use as loaners for people getting their boards repaired. I'll check with a few of our retailers and resorts who offer demos and see if I can find one that wants to part with an older Infinity 142 and let you know.


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## The Chairman (Aug 17, 2009)

deagol said:


> Nice, sounds awesome. I love my Raptor and was wondering why it was discontinued.. sounds like this board is the reason.
> 
> Really nice write up about Craig Kelley. He was our hero back in those days.. also, I was a Purgatory season pass holder for about 8 years, great memories there. The equipment sure has come a long way since those days..


Hey deagol,

I dug up that picture from Purgatory back in the day. As I was telling you before you could even buy a lift ticket there you had to go up on the bunny hill with someone from the mountain and get "certified" to show you could turn a board and hold an edge without killing someone. This was taken in 1989 right after we got certified and was my first real run at Purgatory. Storm was just rolling in and it snowed about 18" that night!







[/URL][/IMG]


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## deagol (Mar 26, 2014)

The Chairman said:


> Hey deagol,
> 
> I dug up that picture from Purgatory back in the day. As I was telling you before you could even buy a lift ticket there you had to go up on the bunny hill with someone from the mountain and get "certified" to show you could turn a board and hold an edge without killing someone. This was taken in 1989 right after we got certified and was my first real run at Purgatory. Storm was just rolling in and it snowed about 18" that night!
> 
> ...


Awesome !! looks like a Sims Halfpipe. My brother worked on the snowmaking crew at Purg back then and he had the same board. is that lift 8 in the background ?


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## The Chairman (Aug 17, 2009)

You're right. Good eye, it was a Sims Halfpipe. That's cool your brother rode one, does he still have it? 

I'm not sure of which chair it was. I'll have to get back down there this season and hit some of those rollers.


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## KansasNoob (Feb 24, 2013)

deagol said:


> Awesome !! looks like a Sims Halfpipe. My brother worked on the snowmaking crew at Purg back then and he had the same board. is that lift 8 in the background ?


Either that or maybe chair 6?? 

8 is a fun lift, the lift line doesn't look steep til you're going down it, hahaha.

Awesome pic btw


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## buggravy (Feb 19, 2008)

Rode my Chairman 160 yesterday. I weigh 160 lbs, and am amazed at how nimble, docile, and generally user friendly this board is, given what it's capable of. I think it's way more versatile than you'd expect, given where it sits in the line up. So easy and fluid edge to edge.


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