# Avalanche in Sunshine Village??



## boarderaholic (Aug 13, 2007)

Anyone got the deets on this?? I heard something about it on the news...


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## ARSENALFAN (Apr 16, 2012)

Skiers and not snowboarders from what i understand:


Somebody posted this about the Delirium Dive avalanche on Sunshine's facebook site:

They were on their 3rd turn from the top when the entire face fractured. They both got caught up in it, and were swept top to bottom and thrown cartwheeling right over a cliff band. When everything eventually came to a stop at the very bottom, one was buried and one was on the surface. About 8 or 10 people assembled at the base and began digging. Sunshine Ski Patrol were immediately on the scene. Prayers to both. It was ugly.


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## Banjo (Jan 29, 2013)

Shit. Just goes to show that the terrain doesn't go without risk. Having beacons and gear isn't enough, you need to know how to use them.


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## boarderaholic (Aug 13, 2007)

This is a curiosity/learning question more than anything, but with the way the weather conditions have been going, would Sunshine Village have closed the dive if they knew it was going to give like this? Or would it have been a ride at your own risk type of deal?


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## killclimbz (Aug 10, 2007)

Oh wow. Did not hear thay this happened. All across western North America we have had unusual snow which is creating unusual avalanche conditions. Lots of 100 year events. 

Now isn't Delirium Dive an area that you are required to carry avalanche gear and have a partner? That in itself says a lot about what ski patrol and risk management thinks about that spot. 

Obviously they can't get it past whatever confidence percentage that they feel it is not a problem. Throw in a season like this. I bet after examination it'll show the skier hit a swet spot. Shallow part of the snow pack or maybe right by an exposed rock. Which at a ski area is not usually a problem. 

It also sounds like karma is slapping the ownership of Sunshine in the face over their past couple of years of shenanigans. 

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## Argo (Feb 25, 2010)

There was an inbounds skier death at Jackson yesterday too. on parachutes run. It's not super steep or gnarly, likely just an over confident skier. People forget the consequences alot while snow sliding


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## DiggerXJ (Apr 4, 2013)

Argo said:


> There was an inbounds skier death at Jackson yesterday too. on parachutes run. It's not super steep or gnarly, likely just an over confident skier. People forget the consequences alot while snow sliding



What's the story behind that? Avy related, tree, cliff?


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## killclimbz (Aug 10, 2007)

Yeah, somehow that does not sound avalanche related to me. More user error. Unless the slope gave way, kind of not related to this.


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## madmax (Sep 10, 2013)

TETON VILLAGE, Wyo. (AP) — A skier is dead after hitting a tree at Jackson Hole Mountain Resort.

The resort said the 31-year-old man suffered "significant trauma" while skiing in an area called the Parachutes on Monday. Spokeswoman Anna Cole says the man hit a tree and then fell, landing about 40 feet below the tree.

The death is being investigated by the Teton County sheriff and the resort's ski patrol.

The man's name hasn't been released yet.

Resort president Jerry Blann extended the sympathies of the staff to the man's family and friends.


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## killclimbz (Aug 10, 2007)

Yep, hit a tree at any speed and bad things usually happen. RIP.


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## poutanen (Dec 22, 2011)

killclimbz said:


> Now isn't Delirium Dive an area that you are required to carry avalanche gear and have a partner? That in itself says a lot about what ski patrol and risk management thinks about that spot.
> 
> It also sounds like karma is slapping the ownership of Sunshine in the face over their past couple of years of shenanigans.


Yes it's a gear + partner zone. The other issue may be that it only opened recently, it hasn't had a season of people skiing on it to cut/pack/etc. the terrain. I think it's only been open for a few weeks?

The ownership is one of the reasons I choose not to board there.



Argo said:


> There was an inbounds skier death at Jackson yesterday too. on parachutes run. It's not super steep or gnarly, likely just an over confident skier. People forget the consequences alot while snow sliding


Yeah this happens anywhere. People die at Blue Mountain in Ontario every year.

As far as in-bounds avalanches are concerned, Fernie had one a couple years ago. All involved were very lucky! Inbounds Avalanche At Fernie | Fernie.com | Fernie Blogs


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## roremc (Oct 25, 2009)

boarderaholic said:


> This is a curiosity/learning question more than anything, but with the way the weather conditions have been going, would Sunshine Village have closed the dive if they knew it was going to give like this? Or would it have been a ride at your own risk type of deal?


They would close it if they thought it was a risk of going. I rode that run on Sunday. I am amazed the guys survived going off the cliff. Its a big one! 

While there is danger riding terrain like that I would prefer to risk it in the dive than in the back country. They are bombing in their constantly. Thousands of laps are put in the dive every year and this is the first incident I have heard about in the six years I have been here.


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## poutanen (Dec 22, 2011)

roremc said:


> While there is danger riding terrain like that I would prefer to risk it in the dive than in the back country. They are bombing in their constantly. Thousands of laps are put in the dive every year and this is the first incident I have heard about in the six years I have been here.


And patrol is right there to help... In the BC if you broke your leg, you could be in serious shit! In the dive at least there should be guys able to get you down and to an ambulance...


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## killclimbz (Aug 10, 2007)

For sure. Ski patrol is going to be there quickly to assist. Though dead is dead. inbounds slides happen on occasion. Kicking Horse has had one. A few years ago a skier was killed at Arapahoe Basin, well inbounds and not in an area where carrying avalanche gear is advised. It can happen.


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## Sprockett (Jan 9, 2012)

Fernie has had plenty of in bounds slides over the years. Someone was partially buried right under Corner Pocket on St. Patty's day last month. Not all of them get press. I'm sure the same is true of many hills.


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## kalev (Dec 17, 2013)

Somebody died a few years ago at Big White from an in-bounds avalanche in the parachute / cliff area. They don't even mention probes / beacons etc there and regularly control / bomb the bowl - I guess it can happen anywhere if the conditions are right

As far as SSV goes, I'm glad to hear they survived and glad to see so many people jumped in and helped with the rescue


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## Banjo (Jan 29, 2013)

not to point fingers or assume anything, but often after a large snowfall there is a large delay in getting these areas open, i often get in right as they open and apart from the trail crew getting fresh tracks on some of the sweetest lines, I have rarely seen them doing any sort of layer investigation. it just seems like a "bomb it, ride it, open it". Last Time I was in WW, I was triggering fairly large fracture sluff and personally didnt think it should have been open to anyone with a beacon strapped to them. (see pic)

I think they hide behind the "beacon and probe needed" and often dont do enough to actually control the areas. Places like Kicking Horse have much more complex inbounds terrain and ensure its safe before opening the gates. thats my 2c...


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## killclimbz (Aug 10, 2007)

What do you think a layer investigation is going to tell you at a ski area? Where do you look? I hate the "we dug a pit and got no results so we thought it was safe" mentality. A pit can be used for information, but it in no way indicates the overall stability of a slope.

A skier compacted slope and I seriously doubt any decent info can be gleaned from it. The only call is to not open it, ever.


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## Banjo (Jan 29, 2013)

Fair enough. I just dont think they do enough to ensure that area is safe and have overheard people who claim just duck the gates anyhow. 

Speedy recovery to those involved and hopefully this will make staff and rider more diligent


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## killclimbz (Aug 10, 2007)

Well firing of your most experienced ski patrollers a couple of years ago probably didn't help. 

The experience level of those who are left to ensure the safety of their patrons is probably not that of those let go. You won't get an argument from me there. I blame that on the owners and not the patrol though.


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## mhaas (Nov 25, 2007)

I personally don't like the idea of having inbounds areas that require avy gear. Im not against wearing beacons inbounds, just the policy. I see it as a cheap insurance policy for the resort when shit goes bad. The resort is essentially saying," Hey, the slope might slide because we are unable to confidently mitigate the hazard. So wear a beacon and bring a partner just in case". I feel it gives the riders a false sense of security while doing nothing to address the equally opportunistic killer of trauma. Looking at Banjos pic, that's gnarly terrain. Not the place you want to go for a ride. Like Killz said, it should either be open or not. Treat it like backcountry and let people make their own stability assessments if you cant reasonably keep the slope from sliding. 

Also like Killz said, the rider probably hit the sweet spot/trigger point. Unfortunately, the trigger points are usually the most fun to ride/ ride off of. Beacons don't address this but a cautious approach to bc terrain does.

*** Note: I know inbound slides will happen. But if the resort feels the chance of it happening are great enough that they want users to wear locating gear, I don't think a business should let people on that slope. 

Glad everyone made it out alive.


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## seriouscat (Jan 23, 2012)

Sounds like some broken bones and a collapsed lung is the biggest injury. Lucky


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## Lamps (Sep 3, 2011)

poutanen said:


> Yeah this happens anywhere. People die at Blue Mountain in Ontario every year.


I've now spent three seasons in a seasonal rental up a blue mountain north of Toronto, all 720 vertical feet of it, and each year there has been one or more deaths.


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## TorpedoVegas (Dec 25, 2011)

The main reason Sunshine requires you to wear gear is that it cuts down on the amount of people going into these areas. It keeps the terrain a little more exclusive, keeps the snow around longer and keeps a lot of people from getting in over their heads and having to have Snow Safety constantly rescue people from themselves.

It's bullshit to say that because they make people wear gear they care less about actually doing the work to keep the area safe. 

We wouldn't even hear about this avalanche if there wasn't any injuries, and the only reason there was injuries is because they got taken for a ride over a really big cliff band. Those guys chose to ride that run knowing what kind of exposure is below it. There was a avalanche a month ago at Castle in one of the far chutes (Haveys Dream) and I never heard anything in the media about it because there was no injuries.... Are the people who run Castle a bunch of bastards who don't care about people and deserve the bad karma? No, they are the one of the best operations around. People need to quit adding to the bullshit.


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## jtg (Dec 11, 2012)

Eh, sidecountry/slackcountry is big business now. From board makers pushing splits to resorts pushing their extreme terrain. The way it's marketed even pressures the general public to go there at some point. Like it's a part of your natural progression at the resort. Not that long ago, it was almost seen as a different activity. Now you're led to believe that you're missing out on real skiing/riding at certain resorts if you aren't hitting that stuff.


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## tonicusa (Feb 27, 2008)

^
+1 yup. It pains me to see people wearing backpacks in resorts. One time is acceptable but if you haven't figured out that you're not Special Forces or heli skiing by your third infraction then you need some friends.

The only thing worse is all these "new" telemarkers who think they are "special" hipsters. It reminds me of all these retards who are into triathlons now because it seems cool. Posers. Take all your stupid water bottles off your waist and go play a sport. Exercising doesn't make you an athlete.


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## ShredLife (Feb 6, 2010)

goddamnit backcountry sucks... trust me.. its more work than fun - you don't wanna do it - we're all gonna die!!!


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## killclimbz (Aug 10, 2007)

Well if you are hitting sidecountry shots a pack is appropriate. If not then yeah gaper. 

The amount of control can be a bit overwhelming. Silverton mountain literally boot packs their entire mountain after the first snows to crush down all the facets and get rid of that base weak layer. Aspen Highlands does the same with Highlands bowl. Does something similar happen with DD? That terrain looks awfully steep and probably not possible to put a human safely in some spots. At least not without a lot of effort. 

And shred you are right. It fucking sucks. Resorts are where it is at. 

Anyone want to meet me at Bert Saturday? 

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## mhaas (Nov 25, 2007)

tonicusa said:


> Take all your stupid water bottles off your waist and go play a sport. Exercising doesn't make you an athlete.


well said.


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## poutanen (Dec 22, 2011)

killclimbz said:


> Well if you are hitting sidecountry shots a pack is appropriate. If not then yeah gaper.
> 
> The amount of control can be a bit overwhelming. Silverton mountain literally boot packs their entire mountain after the first snows to crush down all the facets and get rid of that base weak layer. Aspen Highlands does the same with Highlands bowl. Does something similar happen with DD? That terrain looks awfully steep and probably not possible to put a human safely in some spots. At least not without a lot of effort.


Yep lots of gapers with packs here, it's like you're not cool unless you have a pack with a shovel, shows how hardcore you are! :dunno: I have to patrol with a pack (with a first aid kit in it) and can't wait for the freedom of nothing on my back when I'm freeriding away from the patrol!

I don't think any boot packing goes on in the Canadian Rockies (and surrounding mountains). The only thing I've ever seen is bombing, and ski cutting.

There are many spots in chutes out here that I wouldn't dare try to hike up, only way I'll be in them is with a board strapped to my feet thank you very much! :yahoo:


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## Banjo (Jan 29, 2013)

They do bootpack DD. That's why it takes till January or February to open. I only ride with a pack to go in these areas, and I totally agree with pouts that it's nice to get rid of it. 
I've considered switching to Louise, but I don't think my crew is down for the extra 30 mins, plus being able to ride till may 20 is a bonus.


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## poutanen (Dec 22, 2011)

Banjo said:


> They do bootpack DD. That's why it takes till January or February to open. I only ride with a pack to go in these areas, and I totally agree with pouts that it's nice to get rid of it.
> I've considered switching to Louise, but I don't think my crew is down for the extra 30 mins, plus being able to ride till may 20 is a bonus.


How the hell do they boot pack that?!? Is it just the entrance?

By the time you sit on the gondola to get to the base, it's probably only 15 mins longer to go to Louise...


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## Peyto (Mar 21, 2012)

TorpedoVegas said:


> The main reason Sunshine requires you to wear gear is that it cuts down on the amount of people going into these areas. It keeps the terrain a little more exclusive, keeps the snow around longer and keeps a lot of people from getting in over their heads and having to have Snow Safety constantly rescue people from themselves.


This is the perception for a lot of people who ride the Dive. There is certainly a lot of truth to it as it does help keep out people who have no business being in there, but it allows others to shrug off the very real avy concerns that exist in there. The snow safety team spends a good couple of hours in those spots every morning, which tells you plenty about the nature of the terrain. As someone earlier posted, the risk level is not the same as backcountry, but you can be sure that it is high enough that patrol can't ensure safety to the same degree they can on the rest of the mountain (including south side chutes which often has some control work done in the morning), hence the gear requirement. It certainly covers SSV's ass, but it also corresponds with more risk.

But it's the false sense of safety that I object to the most. I'm not saying SSV encourages people to think that because it's avalanche controlled it's safe, but if you ride enough chairs at SSV you'll know that there are plenty of people who strap on the pack to enter the Dive/WW with no real training on how to use it. SSV management has to better balance their promotional efforts (area so bad ass and extreme that you need avy gear) with their safety efforts (the reality that it's complex terrain that can slide). One thing I hope comes out of it more clarity to users in this respect.


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