# New Snow Vehicle, Honda CRV or Subaru Forester



## SBK (Sep 14, 2011)

I'm looking to replace my 1997 Jeep Cherokee and the two vehicles at the top of my list of the Honda CRV and Subaru Forester.

I'm looking for something 1-3 years old with low mileage.

Anyone driven either or both of these on snow and have an opinion if one is markedly better than the other?

Any other makes standout in small SUV's? I like the styling on the Nissan Rogue and Mazda CX-5 but my mechanic's opinion is that Honda and Toyota trump all in terms of reliability. Living in the Pacific NW I have lots of friends that are die-hard Subaru owners, I like the look and feel of the newer Foresters.


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## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

have driven older years of both ... subie ftw...crv rides tall, feels loose vs subie feels solid with lower cog and feels like it has some more power and stability.


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## taco tuesday (Jul 26, 2014)

I love my Suburb Outback it cruises through the snow as long as it isn't really deep. I got it hung up on a big pile of wet snow once and had to dig the snow out from under the car to free it. That made me miss my F-150 that would power over or through almost anything.


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## Mystery2many (Aug 14, 2013)

My wifes CRV is a beast in the snow. We wake up to our cars buried in the snow all the time and it digs itself out of feet of snow with not a care in the world. With snow tires it drives great on snow pack and ice. It is also very easy to work on and low maintance. A Subaru is the only other car I would consider owning out here for her. So basically you can't go wrong either way.


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## Mizu Kuma (Apr 13, 2014)

I've owned Subie's all my driving life!!!!!

The things were designed for the snow!!!!!


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## Bones (Feb 24, 2008)

I've owned both and it's a toss-up. I like the CRV's higher COG for deep snow and plowing thru snowbanks. I also liked it for getting down forestry roads in the summer. That said, it rides high all the time and drives like it (body lean, wind gusts, etc.)

The Forester felt more stable on the highway and black ice, etc. It didn't like going thru the snowplow bank at the end of the driveway and I had more than a few rocks bounce off the oil pan on forestry roads.

If you're only going to be going to the ski hill on snowy roads, I'd say Forester.

That said, that CRV was still going strong and trouble free @350,000km


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## snowklinger (Aug 30, 2011)

In that class, I'm looking hard at a RAV4, fwiw.

I also like the Juke but find myself in the minority.

Coming to the end of almost 25 years between 2 hondas that hardly cost a penny to run, imho can't go wrong with Toyota, Honda or Nissan.


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## hikeswithdogs (Sep 23, 2011)

Both good vehicles, both expensive to maintain/repair......Id say

1. Go for a test drive
2. Get whichever one you can get with less money and less miles.
3. CRV more SUV, Forster more car.....so probably comes down to clearance Vs handling?

Good
Luck!

When your not at the mountain are you on hiways, dirt roads or something in between.


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## bksdds (Jul 2, 2015)

If I didn't get the Toyota I would have gone to the Subaru dealer next.


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## Clayton Bigsby (Oct 23, 2012)

Long time Honda guy, my current snow/Mtn bike vehicle is the Element (same as CRV but more room). Before biting on a Subi look up their maintenance (I to have owned both), always wanted a Impreza wagon STI WRX, I just can't give up my 10 yr old Element (talked 2 friends of mine into an Element, they love them)

In the end it's your choice, test drive both


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## 16gkid (Dec 5, 2012)

Both good capable winter cars, I was choosing between those two as well and ended up with a honda element, if i could go back I would pick up a subie instead. The element is good but the average mpg is painful for long drives (18-21mpg), and im assuming the crv will be close. Im pretty sure you can get mid 20's mpg in the subaru.


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## destroy (Dec 16, 2012)

snowklinger said:


> In that class, I'm looking hard at a RAV4, fwiw.
> 
> I also like the Juke but find myself in the minority.
> 
> Coming to the end of almost 25 years between 2 hondas that hardly cost a penny to run, imho can't go wrong with Toyota, Honda or Nissan.



My mom has an 08 RAV4 and my sister has a CRV around the same age. I prefer the RAV4. They drive similarly but the layout of the Toyota is better. I wouldn't be that picky about the handling in it, you Americans have such wiiiide and generally flat and straight roads...

I can see the appeal in these things, and I don't really like Japanese cars and their soulless utilitarian ways. If they weren't so boring and so econobox like in their driving experience, and had some real dee-suhl power to get err down the road I'd be sold.


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## kosmoz (Dec 27, 2013)

I'd go with tiguan 2,0 tfsi 4motion. it's more like a car than that japanese overmarketed crap.


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## FrontRange (Oct 15, 2015)

rav4 has no ground clearance, neither does the CRV. Look up the specs. Both are less than 7" I believe. Both are definitely less than the Subaru. After that your tire choice makes a big difference. I can't imagine ever getting my Subaru with snow tires stuck somewhere that I wouldn't get my Ram 1500 4x4 stuck. 

Subaru all the way. Better ground clearance, better AWD, great resale. Maintenance is easy. Great safety rating too.


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## kosmoz (Dec 27, 2013)

would you buy a pentium 3 in a nice case for a price of i7?  so why are you buying all that japanese shit full of technologies, that were stolen 30 years ago?


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## SBK (Sep 14, 2011)

Thanks for all the replies. Confirms my general thoughts that both would serve my purpose. I've never driven a CRV so that needs to be first on the agenda. I've driven the forester and really like the ride and the visibility you have, very similar to the Jeep.

I have to admit a bias towards Honda for several reason. I've owned one in the past, my mechanic going on 20 years puts Honda's and Toyota's in a separate category in terms of reliability, Subaru's have a reputation for head gasket failures and the CRV is usually the highest rated in it's class is most of the reports I've read.

I like the Element but not the fact that they discontinued it and it gets worse gas mileage than the CRV (23/31) or the Forester (22/29).

I've looked at the RAV but am not excited about the styling or the number of recalls Toyota has had recently. I should probably test drive one anyway.

I like the Juke but it doesn't have enough cargo room for us. The Rogue looks nice but the side and rear views aren't great. I really like the styling on the Milano. I may test drive this too but would probably have to settle for an older model with more miles.

The Mazda CX-5 to me looks the best in the class, apparently handles real well and gets better gas mileage the all the above but Mazda's reliability and repair costs are not as good.

My friend drives a Tiguan and really likes it but they are more expensive upfront, more expensive to repair, the reliability is not as good and whole issue with falsifying emissions data is pretty damning IMO.

Thanks again for all the replies, I need to get out and there and start test driving vehicles.


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## Powhunter (May 10, 2015)

Wasn't gong to post as I don't have experience with the Honda or Subie, but you mentioned Mazda and VW so Il chime in. My dad has a CX-5 and I've driven it a few times, thing is awesome. Excellent fuel economy, great handling, decent power for a SUV, and hasn't had any problems. If you're looking at VW, take a look at a BMW X3. Probably a good bit more than what you're currently looking at, but comparable to a Tiguan I think? I own an X3 and with snows, it's damn near unstoppable. Feet of unplowed snow? No prob! Floor that shit and enjoy. Funnest vehicle I've ever owned. Shit, an X1 wouldn't be bad either but is a little too small IMO. I know people talk shit about BMW and reliability, those are just people too cheap to pay for the routine maintenance. Bimmers also come with all maintenance paid for the first few years. Honestly though, you're on the right track either way as they're all good options.


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## speedjason (May 2, 2013)

Get a used FJ Cruiser.:nerd:


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## snowklinger (Aug 30, 2011)

Powhunter said:


> Wasn't gong to post as I don't have experience with the Honda or Subie, but you mentioned Mazda and VW so Il chime in. My dad has a CX-5 and I've driven it a few times, thing is awesome. Excellent fuel economy, great handling, decent power for a SUV, and hasn't had any problems. If you're looking at VW, take a look at a BMW X3. Probably a good bit more than what you're currently looking at, but comparable to a Tiguan I think? I own an X3 and with snows, it's damn near unstoppable. Feet of unplowed snow? No prob! Floor that shit and enjoy. Funnest vehicle I've ever owned. Shit, an X1 wouldn't be bad either but is a little too small IMO. I know people talk shit about BMW and reliability, those are just people too cheap to pay for the routine maintenance. Bimmers also come with all maintenance paid for the first few years. Honestly though, you're on the right track either way as they're all good options.


I almost got an 08 3 series recently instead of the 11 altima I picked up (same sticker price). Was convinced I could afford to buy the car but not keep it on the road. The initial maintenance they pay for may be great, but a new BMW is a different ball of $wax$ for just about anybody.


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## hikeswithdogs (Sep 23, 2011)

Right on with that but I think that's a little more vehicle than he wants, love our FJ......now I want a 90's Cruiser Import!

Here's our FJ
https://instagram.com/p/383DywE2o1/


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## Powhunter (May 10, 2015)

snowklinger said:


> I almost got an 08 3 series recently instead of the 11 altima I picked up (same sticker price). Was convinced I could afford to buy the car but not keep it on the road. The initial maintenance they pay for may be great, but a new BMW is a different ball of $wax$ for just about anybody.


It can definitely get costly but there's a few things you can do to hopefully prevent that, and honestly this should apply to any used car that just becomes increasingly important the more $$$$ it costs. And that's to have a third party scope the car before you buy it, and look into an aftermarket extended warranty.


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## kosmoz (Dec 27, 2013)

why noone mentioned shitty subaru engines, which even does not have valve compensators and valves needs to be adjusted/tuned every 50-70k miles? To change a spark plungs on H6 you need to take out the engine?


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## lh0628 (Feb 3, 2016)

kosmoz said:


> why noone mentioned shitty subaru engines, which even does not have valve compensators and valves needs to be adjusted/tuned every 50-70k miles? To change a spark plungs on H6 you need to take out the engine?


Urine an idiot.

Subaru. It's not even a question that should be asked. 

No. I'm not biased at all.


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## snowklinger (Aug 30, 2011)

lh0628 said:


> Urine an idiot.
> 
> Subaru. It's not even a question that should be asked.
> 
> No. I'm not biased at all.


you're gonna fit in nicely


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## kosmoz (Dec 27, 2013)

I simply adore 1985 technologies used in 2016  bmw had the same power from 2.5 engine in 1985 325i e30


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## dave785 (Jan 21, 2016)

The mazda CX-5 is a great way to go for that price range IMO. Drives like a car on the roads but handles terrain like an SUV. I test drove that, the outback, the bmw x1, and a few others.

If you can drop a little more moola, an Infiniti QX70 (they used to call it the fx-35 I think) is a great way to go. I drive the infiniti qx50 but it sounds a little too small for your taste (in like with a bmw x1)... but I couldn't say no to 325 hp that handles like a car lol... and I live in SoCal so the offroading is non-existent except for some light snow and ice on drives up to the mountains.


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## tanscrazydaisy (Mar 11, 2013)

Forester = proven AWD system

CR-V = proven to be shitty Real-Time AWD system.

I would consider a CR-V when they upgrade it to a SH-AWD system variant, as the new Pilot gets a version of the SH-AWD system, using the i-VTM badge.


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## SBK (Sep 14, 2011)

Been spinning my wheels so to speak on this one. Talked to my mechanic of 20 odd years and he pretty much said that Toyota's are the most reliable cars they deal with, even pointed to a bay with a Subaru getting the head gaskets replaced that day. Said the CRV's have sensor issues that they haven't seemed to fix. He recommended the Highlander and Forerunner specifically but if I was going smaller then the RAV. Living in the city and having a smallish parking space at my townhome a bigger vehicle doesn't make sense and they are pricier. I don't really like the styling on any of these rigs but will see if I can test drive at least the RAV to see what I think.

I really like the styling of the Infiniti but the price range is a bit high for what I want to spend. That said to me the Nissan Murano has similar styling, is supposed to be fun to drive and have a nice interior. They also can be had for approx $25K for a 2-3 year old one with less than 30K miles on it. It does have a little less carrying capacity than the others I've looked at which is a little bit of an issue since we car camp a fair amount.

I also like the Mazda CX-5 looks and what I've read about it. I really need to just go drive some cars and see what I like. I'm sure all of them are better on snow, at least on the highway, than my old Jeep. Only downside is I'll probably be reluctant to head out on the many forest service or fire roads that we often explore for fun around here.


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## lh0628 (Feb 3, 2016)

Do some research, only a small percentage of Subarus had headgasket issues, and it's been an non-issue since around year 2000. Plus, it's not a big deal to replace, far less dangerous than an airbag or brake failure. 

Have you seen how many recalls Toyota has been giving out? They used to be super reliable, but not anymore. They are still great cars, if you want something that is relatively reliable, sure, Toyota or Honda would be great choices. BUT, if you want a vehicle that is actually fun to drive, get a Subaru.


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## Argo (Feb 25, 2010)

How fun a Subaru is, is also relative fun not actual fun aside from the person having the relative fun.... 

Every hipster and their trust funded brother has a damn subaru, I'd take an audi or crv first. I'll stick with my big ******* truck for now. 

I'd honestly get a used 4 runner 4x4 over either of your choices....


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## dave785 (Jan 21, 2016)

I'm sure I'm going to get a lot of hate for this... But the new Ford Edge is pretty sick and also pretty affordable.

Also.. Any reason why you aren't just getting a new Cherokee? You can get an AWD one for about 25k.. Just not optioned up.


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## Argo (Feb 25, 2010)

I had an edge for a rental and it did well, pretty amazing for the price really


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## buggravy (Feb 19, 2008)

SBK said:


> Been spinning my wheels so to speak on this one. Talked to my mechanic of 20 odd years and he pretty much said that Toyota's are the most reliable cars they deal with, even pointed to a bay with a Subaru getting the head gaskets replaced that day. Said the CRV's have sensor issues that they haven't seemed to fix. He recommended the Highlander and Forerunner specifically but if I was going smaller then the RAV. Living in the city and having a smallish parking space at my townhome a bigger vehicle doesn't make sense and they are pricier. I don't really like the styling on any of these rigs but will see if I can test drive at least the RAV to see what I think.
> 
> I really like the styling of the Infiniti but the price range is a bit high for what I want to spend. That said to me the Nissan Murano has similar styling, is supposed to be fun to drive and have a nice interior. They also can be had for approx $25K for a 2-3 year old one with less than 30K miles on it. It does have a little less carrying capacity than the others I've looked at which is a little bit of an issue since we car camp a fair amount.
> 
> I also like the Mazda CX-5 looks and what I've read about it. I really need to just go drive some cars and see what I like. I'm sure all of them are better on snow, at least on the highway, than my old Jeep. Only downside is I'll probably be reluctant to head out on the many forest service or fire roads that we often explore for fun around here.


I can give a little insight here. Our cars are an Outback and a Murano. I've been driving a Forester for a week while the Outback is getting wheel bearings replaced under warranty. The Murano is a nice care (ours is LE trim), but for what it is it drives much more truck-like than the Subarus. Carrying capacity is noticeably less, probably because of the shape of the hatch. If it's just two of you, and you're putting seats down, I wouldn't sweat it. If you have a kid, and are going to be carrying a family's worth of outdoor gear I'd look away from the Murano. It's also a gas hog. We average less than 20mpg using 93 octane. In addition to the Forester I'm using right now as a loaner, I've had a couple as rentals when we travel, and it's a good little car. Nice and spacious, and good gas mileage. Wheelbase is super short, so it bounces around a lot on rough roads. It does feel like a lesser car than the Outback in all respects. If you can afford to step up to an Outback, or are looking at pre-owned, you can't go wrong with them. The one I have now is my second one, and I really love them. I do lots of highway miles for work, and little light off-roading, and a decent amount of snow driving, and I really can't imagine a better car for that mix.


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## SBK (Sep 14, 2011)

lh0628 said:


> Do some research, only a small percentage of Subarus had headgasket issues, and it's been an non-issue since around year 2000. Plus, it's not a big deal to replace, far less dangerous than an airbag or brake failure.
> 
> Have you seen how many recalls Toyota has been giving out? They used to be super reliable, but not anymore. They are still great cars, if you want something that is relatively reliable, sure, Toyota or Honda would be great choices. BUT, if you want a vehicle that is actually fun to drive, get a Subaru.



Agree about the recall issue, that was why Toyota was not on my initial list.

My mechanic says he is still seeing the head gasket issue as recently as the 2007 model year and it's approximately a $3400 repair.


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## SBK (Sep 14, 2011)

dave785 said:


> I'm sure I'm going to get a lot of hate for this... But the new Ford Edge is pretty sick and also pretty affordable.
> 
> Also.. Any reason why you aren't just getting a new Cherokee? You can get an AWD one for about 25k.. Just not optioned up.


I have to admit I have a bit of a bias against the styling on the current US offerings. I like the current Grand Cherokee styling but it is a little bigger and more expensive than I'd like.

the Ford Escape Hybrid was on my radar a few years back when I first started thinking about a new rig but they don't make that anymore.


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## SBK (Sep 14, 2011)

buggravy said:


> I can give a little insight here. Our cars are an Outback and a Murano. I've been driving a Forester for a week while the Outback is getting wheel bearings replaced under warranty. The Murano is a nice care (ours is LE trim), but for what it is it drives much more truck-like than the Subarus. Carrying capacity is noticeably less, probably because of the shape of the hatch. If it's just two of you, and you're putting seats down, I wouldn't sweat it. If you have a kid, and are going to be carrying a family's worth of outdoor gear I'd look away from the Murano. It's also a gas hog. We average less than 20mpg using 93 octane. In addition to the Forester I'm using right now as a loaner, I've had a couple as rentals when we travel, and it's a good little car. Nice and spacious, and good gas mileage. Wheelbase is super short, so it bounces around a lot on rough roads. It does feel like a lesser car than the Outback in all respects. If you can afford to step up to an Outback, or are looking at pre-owned, you can't go wrong with them. The one I have now is my second one, and I really love them. I do lots of highway miles for work, and little light off-roading, and a decent amount of snow driving, and I really can't imagine a better car for that mix.


Interesting comments, wouldn't have expected the Murano to drive more like a truck than the Subaru.

I didn't have the Outback on my list because i assumed they were out of my price range but a quick scan of local inventory shows at least one 2014 with less than 30K miles for $24K and is Certified.

When I bought my Cherokee years ago (also pre-owned) there were only 2 cars on my list, the Cherokee and the Outback. I got the Cherokee for about $10K less than a similarly used Outback. It's been a great rig, mostly trouble free for the 180K miles I've put on it but it is rough-riding, load inside and the backseat is less than ideal for adults.

One thing that I do like though is the shorter wheel base in the city. It certainly contributes to the rougher ride but it is easy to park in the city which can be an issue in Seattle.

Have to admit also that when I was active in a local outdoors club that it seemed like over half the members owned Outbacks and I just didn't want to follow the crowd.


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## lh0628 (Feb 3, 2016)

Lower CoG, shorter turning radius, quick steering wheel ratio, best CTV transmission. Just a few examples of the advantages Subaru offers. 

If you were to get a Legacy/Outback, get a 2015 or newer if you can, it's a re-design, much improvements compared to 2014.


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## KIRKRIDER (Mar 18, 2008)

As for reliability I can speak from my 06 WRX with 188K. So far my only failure was radiator and Clutch both failed at 160K. Only other problem was the O ring of the MAF. I changed it myself. Car has been driven extensively on dirt roads and snow / ice. I'm in the same boat as you looking for a car for my wife. Most probably will be a Forester / Outback. 


Look at the comparative AWD tests on YT. Subaru wins always.


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## BoardWalk (Mar 22, 2011)

Argo said:


> How fun a Subaru is, is also relative fun not actual fun aside from the person having the relative fun....


You just blew my mind :dizzy:


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## lh0628 (Feb 3, 2016)

I'm relatively having fun, in this thread.:nerd:


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## KIRKRIDER (Mar 18, 2008)

BoardWalk said:


> You just blew my mind :dizzy:


Never bought the "fun to drive" line..what? the car tickles you? tells jokes? The fun is in the way you drive whatever you drive...and most importantly your mood when you go somewhere. A car can be reliable, fast, or beautiful...but fun?


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## SBK (Sep 14, 2011)

KIRKRIDER said:


> As for reliability I can speak from my 06 WRX with 188K. So far my only failure was radiator and Clutch both failed at 160K. Only other problem was the O ring of the MAF. I changed it myself. Car has been driven extensively on dirt roads and snow / ice. I'm in the same boat as you looking for a car for my wife. Most probably will be a Forester / Outback.
> 
> 
> Look at the comparative AWD tests on YT. Subaru wins always.


Those are impressive although they certainly are promotional from Subaru.


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## KIRKRIDER (Mar 18, 2008)

SBK said:


> Those are impressive although they certainly are promotional from Subaru.


I just picked the first ones I found....not trying to sell cars here


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## SBK (Sep 14, 2011)

KIRKRIDER said:


> I just picked the first ones I found....not trying to sell cars here


Noted, truth be told the Forester was my front runner before talking to my mechanic. I've driven one and liked it, have twp friends that own one and really sing it's praises.


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## snowklinger (Aug 30, 2011)

SBK said:


> Noted, truth be told the Forester was my front runner before talking to my mechanic. I've driven one and liked it, have twp friends that own one and really sing it's praises.


Show me a mechanic who doesn't love toyotas.


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## tanscrazydaisy (Mar 11, 2013)

KIRKRIDER said:


> Never bought the "fun to drive" line..what? the car tickles you? tells jokes? The fun is in the way you drive whatever you drive...and most importantly your mood when you go somewhere. A car can be reliable, fast, or beautiful...but fun?


Can a certain snowboard be fun to ride than others?


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## snowklinger (Aug 30, 2011)

tanscrazydaisy said:


> Can a certain snowboard be fun to ride than others?


Nope, thats why we all ride a Burton Backhill with Sorrels and duct tape.


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## KIRKRIDER (Mar 18, 2008)

tanscrazydaisy said:


> Can a certain snowboard be fun to ride than others?


The fun is inside you... Use the fun.


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## kosmoz (Dec 27, 2013)

Get a BMW X3 35i xdrive and have fun.


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## Snow Hound (Jul 21, 2012)

My wife's Mini is fun to drive. It's not particularly fast and it's certainty not practical but it is fun.


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## KIRKRIDER (Mar 18, 2008)

Snow Hound said:


> My wife's Mini is fun to drive. It's not particularly fast and it's certainty not practical but it is fun.


Mini Paceman AWD? Nice.


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## Snow Hound (Jul 21, 2012)

KIRKRIDER said:


> Mini Paceman AWD? Nice.


I wish. Just a normal Mini soft top. She's always wanted one but now even she'd admit it pointless. 

I've convinced her that we need one of these instead:


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## MafHoney (Dec 28, 2012)

If you're looking at Mazdas, look at the CX-3 too. We were 100% sure on buying a Subaru. Test drove the Crosstrek and didn't care for it as much as we thought. Same with the Impreza 5 door. We went to test drive the CX-5's since we knew they also had the AWD models, and saw the CX-3's on the lot, also in AWD. Test drove that and we both immediately fell in love with it. Cargo space isn't great, but we just had the roof rack and rails installed on it so we have all the back space open for other crap. Drives great in the snow and slush, and even getting the Grand Touring model (gotta have those heated seats!), the price was right in where we wanted to spend.


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## handsomehwang (Apr 3, 2013)

Forester isn't bad. I have a 2015 Outback because I liked it better than the Forester. Test drove the CX-3, thought it was noisy and less refined although it does look nice and get good MPG. I'm happy with my decision.


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## SBK (Sep 14, 2011)

Thought I'd follow up and thank everyone again for their input. I ended up holding off on a car purchase last year for various reasons and was starting to revisit it this past winter. Then a friend let me know that his mom would be parting with a very lightly used Subaru in the near future and asked if I was interested. It's a 2012 Forester base model which is a little older than I wanted but it had under 35K miles on it and the asking price was $10K less than I budgeted. I test drove it and took it to my mechanic who listed a couple of things that needed to be done in the near future (30K service & front brakes). My friend offered to take $500 off the price to offset some of the cost for this. I went ahead and purchased it and so far I really like it, much more refined than the old Jeep Cherokee and the cargo capacity is noticeably bigger. I've only had the chance to take it up into the mountains once so far (my GF unfortunately broke her collarbone in January so snowboarding days have been curtailed) but it was a snowy day and the road to Mission Ridge was all compact snow and ice. The Forester handled it real well and felt secure even on the steepest and curviest sections.

Being the base model there are a few options I'm considering adding and would appreciate any feedback or recommendations on. It doesn't have the fog lights which are around $300 for an OEM kit. Feedback on these seems to be mixed with main criticism being they get washed out by the low beams. I'd also like to replace the steel wheels with aluminum ones when I replace the tires purely for aesthetics. Any recommendations on wheels? Also it doesn't have a factory rack. I'm not sure if I need or want this since our snowboards fit easily inside with one of the rear seats folded down. Also I'm installing a trailer hitch to enable me to use a hitch rack for bikes. Thoughts on adding a factory rack?

Thanks for previous input and any further input.


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## tanscrazydaisy (Mar 11, 2013)

SBK said:


> Thought I'd follow up and thank everyone again for their input. I ended up holding off on a car purchase last year for various reasons and was starting to revisit it this past winter. Then a friend let me know that his mom would be parting with a very lightly used Subaru in the near future and asked if I was interested. It's a 2012 Forester base model which is a little older than I wanted but it had under 35K miles on it and the asking price was $10K less than I budgeted. I test drove it and took it to my mechanic who listed a couple of things that needed to be done in the near future (30K service & front brakes). My friend offered to take $500 off the price to offset some of the cost for this. I went ahead and purchased it and so far I really like it, much more refined than the old Jeep Cherokee and the cargo capacity is noticeably bigger. I've only had the chance to take it up into the mountains once so far (my GF unfortunately broke her collarbone in January so snowboarding days have been curtailed) but it was a snowy day and the road to Mission Ridge was all compact snow and ice. The Forester handled it real well and felt secure even on the steepest and curviest sections.
> 
> Being the base model there are a few options I'm considering adding and would appreciate any feedback or recommendations on. 1)It doesn't have the fog lights which are around $300 for an OEM kit. Feedback on these seems to be mixed with main criticism being they get washed out by the low beams. 2) I'd also like to replace the steel wheels with aluminum ones when I replace the tires purely for aesthetics. Any recommendations on wheels? 3) Also it doesn't have a factory rack. I'm not sure if I need or want this since our snowboards fit easily inside with one of the rear seats folded down. 4) Also I'm installing a trailer hitch to enable me to use a hitch rack for bikes. Thoughts on adding a factory rack?
> 
> Thanks for previous input and any further input.


1) I would look for an aftermarket fog light, like a Hella or PIAA instead. The only thing good about the factory one is the wiring and switch for it.

2) Try tirerack, or surf various Subaru forums (as well as Forester) for wheels for sale. Then get winter tires for the stock steelies.

3) No side rails? A rack plus cargo box is also good for long trips

4) www.etrailer.com for aftermarket Class III hitches. Class III gives you more options for bike racks vs the factory 1.25" receiver.



bessiebeardsley said:


> I bought a CRV for the winter season and this is probably the best option


Did you get the 1.5L turbo motor, which is prone to fuel dilution, thus accelerating engine wear? And did you get snow tires for it also?


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## Donutz (May 12, 2010)

This is a bit of a necro, but this is worth mentioning since Honda CRVs (and some other models, I think) have an issue of the battery randomly draining over the course of a day or two if left sitting. It appears to be a situation where some of the electronics don't turn off properly when the car is turned off. I think it happens if the key fob is left too close to the car, which isn't actually incompatible with the other explanation. So if you have a CRV and it goes dead occasionally, try moving the key fob to the other end of the house, just to see if it makes a difference.


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## SBK (Sep 14, 2011)

tanscrazydaisy said:


> 1) I would look for an aftermarket fog light, like a Hella or PIAA instead. The only thing good about the factory one is the wiring and switch for it.
> 
> 2) Try tirerack, or surf various Subaru forums (as well as Forester) for wheels for sale. Then get winter tires for the stock steelies.
> 
> ...


Never did get the fog lights replaced, still wouldn't mind extra driving lights for dark nights out in the countryside but the factory light s do ok.

I ended up getting refurbished OEM rims off of eBay. Was real happy with the finish quality on them. My mechanic strongly advised me against aftermarket rims, they said they had seen some catastrophic failures on some of these in the past. I sold the steel wheels, thought about winter tires but we get very little snow in Seattle and living in a small townhouse have very limited storage. Trying to find storage for tires we'd need 6-10 trips a year into the winter mountains wasn't worth the hassle. If I ever move to eastern Washington or Oregon I'd definitely want a set though.

Still no roof rack or rails. We manage to fit everything for camping or snowboarding trips inside except for bikes. My partner got me a rack and got it mounted by U-haul as a birthday present. I splurged on a 1 UP USA rack and couldn't be happier.

Still no complaints from about the Subaru, really a great vehicle for our needs and a real champ on snow.


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## 16gkid (Dec 5, 2012)

I had this same dilemma a few years back, ended up getting a honda element, IMO one of the best adventure/car camper vehicle you can buy, but the mpg is absolute shit, ended up replacing that with a mazda 3 when I started doing cross country snowboard trips, 35mpg FTW


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## SBK (Sep 14, 2011)

16gkid said:


> I had this same dilemma a few years back, ended up getting a honda element, IMO one of the best adventure/car camper vehicle you can buy, but the mpg is absolute shit, ended up replacing that with a mazda 3 when I started doing cross country snowboard trips, 35mpg FTW


I really like the element but gas mileage is bad but they are cavernous! The fact that they got discontinued was the end of that as an option. I don't regret the Subaru especially since I got such a great deal but the only vehicle I regret not getting to test drive was the Mazda CX-3, really like the styling and have heard it is real fun to drive. The extra 10 mpg is gets is nice to versus the 2012 Forester. I've heard the newer Foresters get similar higher mpg.


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## Scalpelman (Dec 5, 2017)

tanscrazydaisy said:


> 1) I would look for an aftermarket fog light, like a Hella or PIAA instead. The only thing good about the factory one is the wiring and switch for it.
> 
> 2) Try tirerack, or surf various Subaru forums (as well as Forester) for wheels for sale. Then get winter tires for the stock steelies.
> 
> ...


Educate me about the 1.5L turbo. I was a bit wary about getting a new Honda as pretty much all models went with smaller, turbo boosted engines. I don’t know a lot about turbos but it just seemed to me to be a recipe for shorter engine life. The wife and I ended up with dueling Subaru’s. I have an 2005 CRV as a utility vehicle that just keeps ticking.


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## tanscrazydaisy (Mar 11, 2013)

Scalpelman said:


> Educate me about the 1.5L turbo. I was a bit wary about getting a new Honda as pretty much all models went with smaller, turbo boosted engines. I don’t know a lot about turbos but it just seemed to me to be a recipe for shorter engine life. The wife and I ended up with dueling Subaru’s. I have an 2005 CRV as a utility vehicle that just keeps ticking.


Turbos are great in higher elevation, but the 1.5 is prone to fuel dilution of the oil, which Honda claims they recalibrated the ECU to fix it

Sent from my moto x4 using Tapatalk


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## WigMar (Mar 17, 2019)

It's a little off topic, but I love the turbo in my Volvo. It boogies up the Rockies like nothing. I still get decent gas mileage for an SUV too. I believe more manufactures are going with turbos to increase efficiency while keeping some power. Modern motors are capable of handling the extra pressure of a turbo better than older motors were.


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## NT.Thunder (Jan 4, 2020)

Subaru make, or used to anyway, great cars. I've owned a Subaru Brumby (ute) and an Outback and loved both of them. In fact I'd grab another now if they made a 7 seater SUV here in Australia.


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## Crusty (Nov 8, 2018)

SBK said:


> I have to admit a bias towards Honda for several reason. I've owned one in the past, my mechanic going on 20 years puts Honda's and Toyota's in a separate category in terms of reliability, Subaru's have a reputation for head gasket failures and the CRV is usually the highest rated in it's class is most of the reports I've read.


Your mechanic is right. I run a repair shop and Honda and Toyota are consistently the most reliable, lowest cost to maintain vehicles, in all categories. We make a lot of money off Subarus. Not just head gaskets either. Google Subaru oil consumption. Note the class actions and reports of dealers falsifying tests.
Sure, I see the worst of any of them. But for what it's worth- my wife does not enjoy it (thats a euphemism, btw) when her car needs work. She drives CR-Vs.


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

My wife has a CRV. I think the Touring model with Turbo engine. For what it is, it is a great practical and versatile car. Super comfortable, capable and great on gas. I'm not sure I would drive the non turbo version but... i guess it would give even better mileage.

She had a Civic before and that thing sipped gas... compared to my Stage2 STI i think I spend like 3x on fuel and speeding tickets.

My good friend has a Forester. He loves it and I liked it too. I like the CRV and reliability a lot better. Honda and Toyota/Lexus reliability doesn't even compare with Subaru... But i think, the engine in the Forester is a bit better than the CRV non-turbo. Similar w the Mazda 3, a lot lore fun to drive than the Civic and similar fuel consumption.


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

NT.Thunder said:


> Subaru make, or used to anyway, great cars. I've owned a Subaru Brumby (ute) and an Outback and loved both of them. In fact I'd grab another now if they made a 7 seater SUV here in Australia.


They do... Subaru Ascent. Is it not available in Au?

At least you guys get the Levorg...


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## NT.Thunder (Jan 4, 2020)

F1EA said:


> They do... Subaru Ascent. Is it not available in Au?
> 
> At least you guys get the Levorg...


No, they decided not to roll it out in Aus for some reason.


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## ridethecliche (Feb 27, 2019)

Scalpelman said:


> Educate me about the 1.5L turbo. I was a bit wary about getting a new Honda as pretty much all models went with smaller, turbo boosted engines. I don’t know a lot about turbos but it just seemed to me to be a recipe for shorter engine life. The wife and I ended up with dueling Subaru’s. I have an 2005 CRV as a utility vehicle that just keeps ticking.


You're probably thinking of modified cars. I would trust the honda engineers when it comes to stock turbos.

The entire point is to use a baby displacement engine for off boost gas mileage and have a little spooley boi in there when you need some juice. The turbos are appropriately sized so they spool up really quick and it feels like a naturally aspirated motor except that you get better highway gas mileage.

And yeah... @WigMar 's car is a hoot.


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## Scalpelman (Dec 5, 2017)

Just speaking of bad turbo experience with Audi. Wife’s allroad 2L turbo started drinking a quart of synthetic oil every gas fill up at 95k mi. Writing was on the wall. Traded that shit in.


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## WigMar (Mar 17, 2019)

I've had an oil cooled turbo start spewing oil into my motor before. I've never seen an engine smoke that badly. A new turbo cleared that right up and was more responsive. Unfortunately, I was in college and that consumed all of my money and then some. Don't modify cars unless you can afford for them to break or have another vehicle.


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## ridethecliche (Feb 27, 2019)

I decided to build a turbo miata in medical school just because... 

I'd never really worked on cars before. I'm still shocked that thing didn't fall apart before it got on the dyno. Wish I had some more time for it right now. I'd love nothing more than to rip around on it a bit for some mindfulness. Thing is a handful though. 330 wheel hp in a miata? 🙃

I also decided to gxsr swap my sv650 in my first year of med school. I learned how to ride a motorcycle in Vietnam and figured why not. I sold that thing in a year and bought the miata. I loved that bike but I understood why men my age die on them. Your sense of speed becomes relative after a bit and you look down at the speedo and shocked at how fast you're going when you were just trying to merge. 

Why is everyone going so slowly turns into holy shit when you look down lol.


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## Scalpelman (Dec 5, 2017)

ridethecliche said:


> I decided to build a turbo miata in medical school just because...
> 
> I'd never really worked on cars before. I'm still shocked that thing didn't fall apart before it got on the dyno. Wish I had some more time for it right now. I'd love nothing more than to rip around on it a bit for some mindfulness. Thing is a handful though. 330 wheel hp in a miata?
> 
> ...


Ha! I laid my Harley over as an undergrad in a high speed bad decision moment. Realized I need to protect myself. But my little 1600 Datsun fills the speed twisty crave. So small that 60 feels like 80.


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## Crusty (Nov 8, 2018)

Scalpelman said:


> Ha! I laid my Harley over as an undergrad in a high speed bad decision moment. Realized I need to protect myself. But my little 1600 Datsun fills the speed twisty crave. So small that 60 feels like 80.


Its not how fast you go, its how you go fast.


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## 16gkid (Dec 5, 2012)

I dont get out to the track like I used to, but try to do at least one trackday a summer just to remember that crazy feeling you get at 150mph. Orange gsxr-750


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## ridethecliche (Feb 27, 2019)

Always wanted to take my sv650 out to the track. 

Someday.... 

I'd rather take the miata though. 330 rwhp makes 120 show up pretty fast in that lol. Id love to kswap or LS swap a miata someday. I really enjoy the chassis with some frame mods!


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## speedjason (May 2, 2013)

Crusty said:


> Your mechanic is right. I run a repair shop and Honda and Toyota are consistently the most reliable, lowest cost to maintain vehicles, in all categories. We make a lot of money off Subarus. Not just head gaskets either. Google Subaru oil consumption. Note the class actions and reports of dealers falsifying tests.
> Sure, I see the worst of any of them. But for what it's worth- my wife does not enjoy it (thats a euphemism, btw) when her car needs work. She drives CR-Vs.


Newer F series engines should be pretty reliable. I would avoid the EJ's.
With that being said nothing beats Subaru's AWD system in the snow. Just so predictable and easy to drive.


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## Donutz (May 12, 2010)

I'm getting an EV probably this summer. Somewhat concerned about the loss of range in cold conditions. OTOH, what we call 'cold' around here would set midwesterners to uncontrollable laughter.


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

speedjason said:


> Newer F series engines should be pretty reliable. I would avoid the EJ's.
> With that being said nothing beats Subaru's AWD system in the snow. Just so predictable and easy to drive.


I've had zero problems with the EJ. Even with a Stage 2 tune. Have most of the parts already for a Stage 3 which will be setup in the coming month or so.

I had a WRX before with the FA20 engine and had no engine issues, but by 2 years I had to replace (all covered under warranty): battery, A/C compressor and front strut towers. So yeah, Subaru altogether is not super reliable. Parts are cheap though, so... it's not too terrible. 

Knowing how people treat and modify the EJs I think they are actually pretty robust lol
Even some people who claim they know... are clueless and do really really stupid things with the EJ. Or buy one used from a guy who did stupid things. Bad idea.


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## woodhouse (Jan 18, 2013)

Scalpelman said:


> Educate me about the 1.5L turbo. I was a bit wary about getting a new Honda as pretty much all models went with smaller, turbo boosted engines. I don’t know a lot about turbos but it just seemed to me to be a recipe for shorter engine life. The wife and I ended up with dueling Subaru’s. I have an 2005 CRV as a utility vehicle that just keeps ticking.


I have an 05 CRV as well, these things never die, threw racks on it last year and always road trip to VT with it, even with 4 adults and gear it does just fine, just wish it got better MPG



Scalpelman said:


> Just speaking of bad turbo experience with Audi. Wife’s allroad 2L turbo started drinking a quart of synthetic oil every gas fill up at 95k mi. Writing was on the wall. Traded that shit in.


Audi's are absolute trash to own, thats a lease only type of car. Audi rebuilt my sisters engine in her 09 A4 because of the exact problem you had, but hers was only a year or 2 old at the time, she has since listened to me and traded it in for a Toyota


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## ridethecliche (Feb 27, 2019)

I would love to own one of the older 2 door rav4's if it can fit a board/board bag in it lol. I really like the old rav's. 

I'm likely going to keep my current car till its got too much rust to pass inspection though. I really wish I had a different car, but it's not worth much anymore and it's pretty fucking reliable so I'd rather spend 500-1000 a year on parts that wear out (if even) instead of spending 500 a month on a payment. As a bonus... the insurance is dirt cheap because it's an 06 lol. 

(Car's an 06 acura TL with 148k miles on it. I love the motor, but my biggest complaint is that the back seats don't go down...)


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## speedjason (May 2, 2013)

F1EA said:


> I've had zero problems with the EJ. Even with a Stage 2 tune. Have most of the parts already for a Stage 3 which will be setup in the coming month or so.
> 
> I had a WRX before with the FA20 engine and had no engine issues, but by 2 years I had to replace (all covered under warranty): battery, A/C compressor and front strut towers. So yeah, Subaru altogether is not super reliable. Parts are cheap though, so... it's not too terrible.
> 
> ...


Early WRXs have some issues. My 2018 I have owned over 2 years is fairly reliable and I drive her hard too.


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

speedjason said:


> Early WRXs have some issues. My 2018 I have owned over 2 years is fairly reliable and I drive her hard too.


Yea mine was a 2016. I don't think it was unreliable per se, but a couple of silly little things/details failed or needed repair. 

The STI feels and drives completely different. It's a sturdy, solid feel...


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## speedjason (May 2, 2013)

F1EA said:


> Yea mine was a 2016. I don't think it was unreliable per se, but a couple of silly little things/details failed or needed repair.
> 
> The STI feels and drives completely different. It's a sturdy, solid feel...


The STi is not much different than the WRX except the drivetrain. Suspension and interior is identical.


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

speedjason said:


> The STi is not much different than the WRX except the drivetrain. Suspension and interior is identical.


Absolutely not. I've had both... same trim and even the same colour. The interior is pretty much the same (other than the STI has Recaros, alcantara suede and black trim instead of the carbon fibre and grey... which are not really a big deal). But:

Suspension is VERY different. STI has bilsteins and slightly different spring rates.
Steering is night and day.
Transmission is night and day.
Engine powerband is night and day.
Fuel consumption is night and day too lol The STI is a f'ing hog.
The differentials are night and day.
The brakes are night and day.
The chassis is the same, and it's an awesome chassis.
Then the exhaust tone, nothing sounds like UEL...

That said, the WRX is a super value. Even more value if you want to modify and add a bit of power. On the STI adding power is very expensive, but the FA has a bit of a limit (around ~350ish WHP, which you can get with a couple $k's and simple parts, before the rods are at risk).

The EJ in the 18 TypeRA+ has been super reliable, up to 500+ whp (that's after a lot of mods and $, but without building the internals). 350whp on the EJ is very expensive and complicated... you can get 350 on the FA with an intake, TMIC, Jpipe, TGV/EGR deletes and a flex fuel tune; all w less than $3k.


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## ridethecliche (Feb 27, 2019)

Hark now hearrrr the ringlanddddssss sing
A subaru motor blownnnn todayyyyy


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

ridethecliche said:


> Hark now hearrrr the ringlanddddssss sing
> A subaru motor blownnnn todayyyyy


hahahah yep that's gotta be a YouTube anthem.

Along with Da new Supra issa BMw.


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## speedjason (May 2, 2013)

F1EA said:


> Absolutely not. I've had both... same trim and even the same colour. The interior is pretty much the same (other than the STI has Recaros, alcantara suede and black trim instead of the carbon fibre and grey... which are not really a big deal). But:
> 
> Suspension is VERY different. STI has bilsteins and slightly different spring rates.
> Steering is night and day.
> ...


Given mine is just a daily, I really don't care about all the things you listed about the STi.


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

speedjason said:


> Given mine is just a daily, I really don't care about all the things you listed about the STi.


Ahh that's an entirely different thing then. It's not that they're the same, it's that you don't care for the differences.

I drive mine daily too.


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## Crusty (Nov 8, 2018)

woodhouse said:


> I
> 
> 
> Audi's are absolute trash to own, thats a lease only type of car.


So true. And so sad. Audis drive so well. Then bam you need $3k in repairs. Again.


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