# Hovercraft vs. Fish vs. Shreddy Krueger



## francium (Jan 12, 2013)

Wait for it...... :storm::laughat::crazy2:


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## KIRKRIDER (Mar 18, 2008)

I can only confirm you that the hovercraft floats at slow speeds on flats, it's fantastic in the deep and steep, agile in trees depending on the size and it's really fun once the pow is gone too...it's a great carving board if you're into that.

:hairy:


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## enjoy (Sep 26, 2014)

Ha, yeah I've read this many times too. Would 152 be too small for me though?



KIRKRIDER said:


> I can only confirm you that the hovercraft floats at slow speeds on flats, it's fantastic in the deep and steep, agile in trees depending on the size and it's really fun once the pow is gone too...it's a great carving board if you're into that.
> 
> :hairy:


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## Mizu Kuma (Apr 13, 2014)

I can only tell ya that I've got a Shreddy that I matched up volume (surface area) wise with my stiff cambered pow board!!!!! 

I'm 90 kegs and ride the 162!!!!!

I'm yet to get it into the deep stuff, but initial tests in 10cm of sugar, and hardpack groomers, was very positive!!!!!


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## KIRKRIDER (Mar 18, 2008)

enjoy said:


> Ha, yeah I've read this many times too. Would 152 be too small for me though?


I don't know...it displaces more than regular board since it's so wide. you can refer to the JJ site for that. I weight 150 / 5.10 and love my 156.


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## enjoy (Sep 26, 2014)

I've read the board is lively / not the most stable for charging (powder or not). Looks like you think otherwise? I had an Element RX that I felt was fine on groomers but not ideal after I rode some camber again. Though as I'm looking at this for powder, probably not a deal breaker.



Mizu Kuma said:


> I can only tell ya that I've got a Shreddy that I matched up volume (surface area) wise with my stiff cambered pow board!!!!!
> 
> I'm 90 kegs and ride the 162!!!!!
> 
> I'm yet to get it into the deep stuff, but initial tests in 10cm of sugar, and hardpack groomers, was very positive!!!!!


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## enjoy (Sep 26, 2014)

Yea, site has the 152 maxing out at 160lbs. Guessing the board hasn't changed much since 2014 so maybe the HC is out as I'm not looking to pay full price for a powder board.



KIRKRIDER said:


> I don't know...it displaces more than regular board since it's so wide. you can refer to the JJ site for that. I weight 150 / 5.10 and love my 156.


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## Mizu Kuma (Apr 13, 2014)

enjoy said:


> I've read the board is lively / not the most stable for charging (powder or not). Looks like you think otherwise? I had an Element RX that I felt was fine on groomers but not ideal after I rode some camber again. Though as I'm looking at this for powder, probably not a deal breaker.


I was a "Rocker Hater", and went into this with a pretty sceptical mindset on how the Shreddy would hold up on the hardpack, and how it'd carve!!!!! (I'm in Australia, so this is a huge factor) 

But, I'd bought this board to take over to Japan, so it wasn't such a decidin factor!!!!! 

I don't know if it's Arbor's Parabolic Rocker, their GripTech Edges (I'm neither a fan nor a hater of Mag), or its just a combo of all it's features!!!!! But it actually blew my Rockin Mind!!!!! 

Pretty sure BA gives it a decent wrap on Angry Sowboarder, too!!!!!


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## stickz (Feb 6, 2013)

I really like my element RX but do find i did buy a dedicated powder board this year, I just feel like it does well in pow under a foot.


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## J.Schaef (Sep 13, 2009)

56 fish is about the best pow board you could ask for. 

I love mine.


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## Alpine Duke (Jun 21, 2015)

Lots of posts asking "is this the right size for me" on this forum. There really is not answer to that. For my taste, all the posts in this thread seem too small if you are truly going for a pow stick. But just because I like riding like that type doesn't mean you will. There are all kinds of riders your weight that like riding a 152 board in the soft stuff. Not for me.....but then.....you aren't buying for me. I think you need to know what type of pow riding and size you like...though I agree you should at least consider the manufacturer weight charts.


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## Mizu Kuma (Apr 13, 2014)

Alpine Duke said:


> Lots of posts asking "is this the right size for me" on this forum. There really is not answer to that. For my taste, all the posts in this thread seem too small if you are truly going for a pow stick. But just because I like riding like that type doesn't mean you will. There are all kinds of riders your weight that like riding a 152 board in the soft stuff. Not for me.....but then.....you aren't buying for me. I think you need to know what type of pow riding and size you like...though I agree you should at least consider the manufacturer weight charts.


Agree with this completely!!!!!

I had the Arbor Rep okay the 159 Shreddy at my weight, but when I roughly based it on surface area of my current powder board it was too small for my likin!!!!!

That's why I went with the 162!!!!!

The Snowboard Industry should take a leaf out of the Surf Industry's Book, whereby they use a similar system to their Volume in Liters!!!!! If the had a Surface Area Guide, I reckon it'd be a much better reference than just length that most regular peeps go off!!!!!


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## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

If it were me, 51 Fish. I like small surfier pow decks though. 56 if you want more plow through float. I know they Hover gets tons of praise here, but I really felt like it was meh. Sure it floats and it can carve cause it's wide, but it was just not that lively and rode kind of harsh. The Fish to me was way more fun on a groomer and floats just as well. Nimble and lively.


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## hikeswithdogs (Sep 23, 2011)

HoverCraft is sick on so many levels but a 152 is just a tad on the short side for 160lbs


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## Mystery2many (Aug 14, 2013)

My vote is for the Fish 156


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## tekniq33 (Mar 18, 2009)

I have a 160 Fish and a 160 hover and used to have a 156 hover. Also have a Con Artist. 

I loved my 156 Hover. Thought it was great on groomers, obviously floated well, agile in the trees. I upped it to the 160 for use out west and was not a fan. I'm almost definitely selling it. On that size I found it way less maneuverable and I am 6'2" 185. That sidecut just doesn't work for my style/ability level, on tight/quick turns.

I absolutely love the con artist because it rips everywhere. Floats, holds an edge to carve a trench and can obviously toss it around in the trees. 

Fish is similarly more surfy than the hover with more taper. Of course it is going to float great and I found it much more agile than the Hover in a 160. 

Depending on where you like to ride, you could easily get away with the 152 Hover at your weight. You're not going to sink that huge nose. It will be more mobile as well, so if you are off piste a lot, go for that. Open bowls go to the 156


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## KIRKRIDER (Mar 18, 2008)

156 in trees


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## tekniq33 (Mar 18, 2009)

KIRKRIDER said:


> 156 in trees


I rode my 156 in 30" of fresh at a medium sized east coast mountain and it totally didnt lack for float. 

Personally, as long as I feel I have enough float, I will always downsize to get the most agility I can. Though again, the type of terrain you are on will dictate a lot of this.


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## enjoy (Sep 26, 2014)

stickz said:


> I really like my element RX but do find i did buy a dedicated powder board this year, I just feel like it does well in pow under a foot.


Yeah, I had an Element RX for a while when I was trying to figure out my boards last season and while I liked it, I found I enjoyed camber underfoot better.


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## enjoy (Sep 26, 2014)

I was honestly leaning towards the fish due to it being the most surfy of the 3 and I'm guessing a little stiffer / more stable than the Shreddy, but just wasn't sure how it would do on groomers, so this is helpful thanks!



Nivek said:


> If it were me, 51 Fish. I like small surfier pow decks though. 56 if you want more plow through float. I know they Hover gets tons of praise here, but I really felt like it was meh. Sure it floats and it can carve cause it's wide, but it was just not that lively and rode kind of harsh. The Fish to me was way more fun on a groomer and floats just as well. Nimble and lively.


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## Mizu Kuma (Apr 13, 2014)

My current Pow Board is DC HKD!!!!!

Stiff, Cambered, Ice Breaker, and I can confirm that the Shreddy is surprisingly solid on the hard pack!!!!! 

Like I said over, I "was" a Rocker Hater!!!!! 

So don't cross the Shreddy off the list!!!!!

Can ya demo any of them?????


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## enjoy (Sep 26, 2014)

Thanks tekniq this is really helpful. The con artist is s-rocker right? I saw a version somewhere (con artist XX) that was full camber. 

How did you like the fish vs your 156 hover? I'm guessing the HC is better on groomers but was that enough to make you like it better as a powder board?

And realistically, I'm not going to be hiking much for untracked powder, mostly just resort powder ("back sides" of the mountain) and random stashes. Do I even need a truly dedicated pow board for this? I forgot to mention I still have my Flight Attendant in addition to the Sin Nombre I picked up. What about something like the Barracuda?

Thanks again



tekniq33 said:


> I have a 160 Fish and a 160 hover and used to have a 156 hover. Also have a Con Artist.
> 
> I loved my 156 Hover. Thought it was great on groomers, obviously floated well, agile in the trees. I upped it to the 160 for use out west and was not a fan. I'm almost definitely selling it. On that size I found it way less maneuverable and I am 6'2" 185. That sidecut just doesn't work for my style/ability level, on tight/quick turns.
> 
> ...


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## enjoy (Sep 26, 2014)

Haha I hear you, I had no issues carving on my Element RX, just preferred camber. It's more the flex / liveliness I'm worried about



Mizu Kuma said:


> My current Pow Board is DC HKD!!!!!
> 
> Stiff, Cambered, Ice Breaker, and I can confirm that the Shreddy is surprisingly solid on the hard pack!!!!!
> 
> ...


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## Mizu Kuma (Apr 13, 2014)

enjoy said:


> Haha I hear you, I had no issues carving on my Element RX, just preferred camber. It's more the flex / liveliness I'm worried about


Again, Arbor rate it as a Medium Flex, and while it isn't as stiff as my HKD in comparison, it definitely isn't a noodle!!!!! 

Well, not yet anyways!!!!!


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## tekniq33 (Mar 18, 2009)

enjoy said:


> Thanks tekniq this is really helpful. The con artist is s-rocker right? I saw a version somewhere (con artist XX) that was full camber.
> 
> How did you like the fish vs your 156 hover? I'm guessing the HC is better on groomers but was that enough to make you like it better as a powder board?
> 
> ...


CA XX is camber. It has 20mm of taper which will help keep tr nose up. I rode it in some fresh snow but if it was a true pow day I would grab the fish.

I'm not too familiar with the sin nombre but the flight attendant is a tapered board that has some prowess in powder. I think I saw somewhere that the sin nombre is a bit pow focused as well. 

Given you have those two, I would certainly go do a super surfy pow ape foci board that will be much different. Something like the fish. The hover doesn't have as much taper and will be a bit different. Barracuda may give a little more float than the boards you have but probably wouldn't be too different. 

The fish is always going to be one of the standards in the pow board category. I personally would do something with significant taper or a cool shape like the k2 cool bean or that nitro quiver.


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## enjoy (Sep 26, 2014)

Makes sense. But the consensus is that the fish can be fun on groomers? Just that you won't be maching it?



tekniq33 said:


> CA XX is camber. It has 20mm of taper which will help keep tr nose up. I rode it in some fresh snow but if it was a true pow day I would grab the fish.
> 
> I'm not too familiar with the sin nombre but the flight attendant is a tapered board that has some prowess in powder. I think I saw somewhere that the sin nombre is a bit pow focused as well.
> 
> ...


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## tekniq33 (Mar 18, 2009)

I guess I should have said j have not ridden the fish much. That said i have ridden it in less than ideal conditions and it worked fine. Yes you maybe alter the way you ride a bit but it's not like you can't do it. It will certainly get you don the hill on the groomers you may have to ride on a pow day


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## Angler (Nov 28, 2010)

The question I have, how are you going to use the board? Is it strictly going to be a pow board and when the pow is gone bring your other board out? Or do you want a board that is bias to pow but still behaves well on the groomers so you don't have to change it out. Knowing that will help in making the decision.


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## SuperRalfons (Nov 8, 2011)

i ride alot. over 100 days per season and have been riding for 20 years.
2 last winters i spent more time on my fish then any other board, using it for park groomers pow and everything you can imagine.
one of the most fun boards ever. ppl should stop being so closedminded and just try to ride everything with every board they got. ^^


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## ju87 (Mar 9, 2011)

to the OP: i'm a bit lighter than you at around 150lbs and i find my 156 Fish to be the right size with good float and maneuverability.


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## enjoy (Sep 26, 2014)

Likely wouldn't want to change the board out in the same day.. seems like all 3 of these are relatively capable in non-pow situations, obviously some more than others



Angler said:


> The question I have, how are you going to use the board? Is it strictly going to be a pow board and when the pow is gone bring your other board out? Or do you want a board that is bias to pow but still behaves well on the groomers so you don't have to change it out. Knowing that will help in making the decision.


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## tekniq33 (Mar 18, 2009)

SuperRalfons said:


> i ride alot. over 100 days per season and have been riding for 20 years.
> 2 last winters i spent more time on my fish then any other board, using it for park groomers pow and everything you can imagine.
> one of the most fun boards ever. ppl should stop being so closedminded and just try to ride everything with every board they got. ^^


I like this guy.


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## Angler (Nov 28, 2010)

You could consider the Barracuda. It is excellent in the pow and pretty good on the groomers. I find myself riding it 75% of the time. I like it better then the Fish for the groomers. Also I would not rule out the Con Artist. I have not been on it yet but I bought it to ride this year. I hear great things about it. I personally would not want to ride the Fish on groomers. I do not find it enjoyable outside of pow, but that is just my perspective.


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## tekniq33 (Mar 18, 2009)

Again, if there is anything worthy of bringing the fish out, its ability on groomers is nowhere in my mind. 

I am hunting the in the trees for any untouched stashes I can find. If anything I am concerned with pow boards ability to handle tracked out choppy pow a lot more than I am groomers. 

Never ridden the Barracuda but to me it is viewed as a wimpier version of a lot of other boards Burton makes.


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## Angler (Nov 28, 2010)

tekniq33 said:


> Again, if there is anything worthy of bringing the fish out, its ability on groomers is nowhere in my mind.
> 
> I am hunting the in the trees for any untouched stashes I can find. If anything I am concerned with pow boards ability to handle tracked out choppy pow a lot more than I am groomers.
> 
> Never ridden the Barracuda but to me it is viewed as a wimpier version of a lot of other boards Burton makes.


Understood, I was commenting on the OP only wanting one board at the mountain. I wouldn't call the Cuda wimpy it's just not as hard charging as the LL or FA on groomers. In the trees filled with pow it is just as good as the Fish IMO. Plus you have the benefit of it being a pretty good groomer board when you are looking for the pow. Again this is all subjective. 
Looking forward to riding the CA as it seems like it will be more hard charging then the Cuda and just as good in the tree's from what I hear. How do you use your CA?


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## tekniq33 (Mar 18, 2009)

Angler said:


> Understood, I was commenting on the OP only wanting one board at the mountain. I wouldn't call the Cuda wimpy it's just not as hard charging as the LL or FA on groomers. In the trees filled with pow it is just as good as the Fish IMO. Plus you have the benefit of it being a pretty good groomer board when you are looking for the pow. Again this is all subjective.
> Looking forward to riding the CA as it seems like it will be more hard charging then the Cuda and just as good in the tree's from what I hear. How do you use your CA?



I hear ya. I obviously have multiple boards, but unless i misread a pow day and it didnt live up to expectations, I wouldn't feel the need to switch out.

I bought in to the CA hype late last season. My brother had the original one and easyloungin suckered me in. I ordered the XX from Evo straight to him in Denver and used it out there. I rode it all over keystone. hiked the bowls and got some fresh, in the tress, went as fast as I can on the groomers, etc. 

It blew me away. lived up to and exceeded the hype. and i am 6'2 185-190. It was locked in at speed on groomers, floated in the "pow" etc, etc. 

I have yet to hear any one complain about it outside of the easily scratched and chipped topsheet, which is an issue for me. unless you hate camber you are going to love it


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## Angler (Nov 28, 2010)

That's great to hear! I love camber and I got sucked into getting it from the boys on EL as well. Should make a fine addition to my quiver. I always bring two boards to the mountain as I like to have choice and I can. Now its time to snow as I am ready!


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## deagol (Mar 26, 2014)

hate to add any confusion here, but I have never liked tapered boards for carving on groomers. They (to me) seem a bit unsteady.

As always, YMMV


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## tekniq33 (Mar 18, 2009)

deagol said:


> hate to add any confusion here, but I have never liked tapered boards for carving on groomers. They (to me) seem a bit unsteady.
> 
> As always, YMMV


Certainly personal preference, but race boards have taper. Just sayin'


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## Angler (Nov 28, 2010)

Subjective, love directional tapered boards. Nothing beats that surfy feeling IMO!


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## deagol (Mar 26, 2014)

tekniq33 said:


> Certainly personal preference, but race boards have taper. Just sayin'


The only really tapered board I have ridden was an older Fish, I should have clarified...

It didn't feel great on the groomers. It was great in soft deep snow, though


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## Angler (Nov 28, 2010)

deagol said:


> The only really tapered board I have ridden was an older Fish, I should have clarified...
> 
> It didn't feel great on the groomers. It was great in soft deep snow, though


They have come a long way in the past few years. Might want to try one.......


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## BFBF (Jan 15, 2012)

enjoy said:


> Hey All,
> 
> Going to pick up one of these powder boards this year as El Nino is having me hopeful for Tahoe. Thinking about making a trip out to Vail as well. I'm 5'11" 160-165 lbs, intermediate rider. My other board is a size 157 full camber mid-flex board.
> 
> ...


Heads up to you without causing paralysis by overanalysis.
I have a Hovy 160 and had a Fish ltd 160.
Have a 162 shreddy 2016 with no snow yet.
I'm 6'1 188 15 yrs riding? Mostly CO/Tahoe ==speed freak

--- Hover = freeride board disguised as a pow deck. 
Wants to straightline everything due to sidecut.
Float is solid, edge hold is excellent due to mellow mtx
Its pretty wide but's easy to turn due to rocker(I don't notice its a 264 WW, even with 9.5 Boots)
Medium stiff.. 
Smashes groomers/chop - plows thru everything. Damper than fish.

Fish ltd -- more turny, surfy and not as stiff as hovy , edge hold is average but not at good on concrete but float is excellent and is slightly easier to negotiate tight trees. 
Don't let fools tell you its pow only, it slays groomers and everything else but is not as stable hauling ass as the hovy. The base on my fish ltd Was blazing fast.

--Both boards are rockered = easy to ride, turn, fun.
Both are capable in deep snow, and rip groomers.
All time decks at what they do.
I'd go for the best deal $$ and not look back.

--When discussing Pow boards, there's alot of: "This board can't do this, or can't do that"---most of the time, it's the person who "can't", not the board.


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## tekniq33 (Mar 18, 2009)

BF, I think you are underselling the difference of the turning radii/sidecuts. If you know you have a preference in that regard you may be steered way from or to the Hover. 

I never met a board I really didn't like until I rode the flagship. You understand quickly why dudes want that board under their feet when straight lining a couloir but you also never see anyone riding them in the trees in Japan. 

The Hover is similar (but not as bad to me). it really wants to go fast or make big turns, unless you are sized down and can manhandle it more.


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## Angler (Nov 28, 2010)

The other board he could look at is the LL. I still think the Cuda could be a good board for him especially since he is an intermediate rider at this point in time.


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## KIRKRIDER (Mar 18, 2008)

HoVy is a mean carving machine too when the pow is gone. with that stiff tail you can lay trenches, and the wider shape lets you get on an edge really high.

Love that.


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## enjoy (Sep 26, 2014)

Thanks for all the input guys, super helpful.

Think I'm leaning towards the 156 fish as I'd want something more surfy. Maybe I'll wait to hear back from people when they get to try the 2016 Shreddy before I pull the trigger, as the 2015 Shreddy is the cheapest of the three.


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## enjoy (Sep 26, 2014)

This board is very similar to the FA right?



Angler said:


> The other board he could look at is the LL. I still think the Cuda could be a good board for him especially since he is an intermediate rider at this point in time.


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## Mizu Kuma (Apr 13, 2014)

enjoy said:


> Thanks for all the input guys, super helpful.
> 
> Think I'm leaning towards the 156 fish as I'd want something more surfy. Maybe I'll wait to hear back from people when they get to try the 2016 Shreddy before I pull the trigger, as the 2015 Shreddy is the cheapest of the three.


I've got the 2016 Shreddy!!!!! 

Ridden 2 days, 5-10cm fresh, a few wind blown pockets, and then hardpack groomers!!!!! Yet to take it tits deep in Japan though!!!!!

The 2015 is exactly the same as the 2016, just different graphics!!!!!


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## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

More surfy definitely the Fish, or Barracuda.


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## enjoy (Sep 26, 2014)

Yea saw that you were stoked on it, just curious how it performs in deeper pow so look forward seeing you post about it!



Mizu Kuma said:


> I've got the 2016 Shreddy!!!!!
> 
> Ridden 2 days, 5-10cm fresh, a few wind blown pockets, and then hardpack groomers!!!!! Yet to take it tits deep in Japan though!!!!!
> 
> The 2015 is exactly the same as the 2016, just different graphics!!!!!


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## enjoy (Sep 26, 2014)

Just curious, do you think a dedicated powder board is necessary if I basically ride 99% tahoe with maybe a trip out to CO a year? I pretty much only ride at resorts and I'm not sure how deep pow gets here anyway given that we haven't seen pow in 5 or so years.. all this is just in anticipation of upcoming storms and the good start to snow we have right now

How often do you bust out your pow boards vs. something like a FA/PYL?



BFBF said:


> Heads up to you without causing paralysis by overanalysis.
> I have a Hovy 160 and had a Fish ltd 160.
> Have a 162 shreddy 2016 with no snow yet.
> I'm 6'1 188 15 yrs riding? Mostly CO/Tahoe ==speed freak
> ...


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

If you alreay have somethig like PYL and FA there's little "need" for a dedicated pow board if you do only resorts. FA is good on face and trees. PYL would be good on faces and groomers. And both will handle the choppy stuff no problems.

You can get a dedicated pow board mostly to have a different feel. Fish will feel a lot surfier/floatier/more agile than those two.

If I were you I'd get a 16 Fish (flat to rocker) because that shark graphic looks badass and it will behave different than the Flight Att. I have the 2015 Fish (camber to rocker), which is what i was looking for.


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## Mizu Kuma (Apr 13, 2014)

enjoy said:


> Yea saw that you were stoked on it, just curious how it performs in deeper pow so look forward seeing you post about it!


Scotty Vine on the Shreddy in Japan!!!!!


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## SGboarder (Jun 24, 2012)

Angler said:


> They have come a long way in the past few years. Might want to try one.......


Nah, it is still pretty much the same board. Added the mini swallowtail at some point which then morphed into the double mini swallow and also played around a little with the camber profile, but none of it really made any difference. 
Same old fish - which is a good thing.


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## Angler (Nov 28, 2010)

SGboarder said:


> Nah, it is still pretty much the same board. Added the mini swallowtail at some point which then morphed into the double mini swallow and also played around a little with the camber profile, but none of it really made any difference.
> Same old fish - which is a good thing.


My bad, I wasn't speaking of the fish I was speaking about the family tree line and how tapered directional boards could be more then a pow board.


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## Angler (Nov 28, 2010)

enjoy said:


> This board is very similar to the FA right?


Cuda or LL not sure which one you are speaking about?


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## SGboarder (Jun 24, 2012)

tekniq33 said:


> BF, *I think you are underselling the difference of the turning radii/sidecuts.* If you know you have a preference in that regard you may be steered way from or to the Hover.
> 
> I never met a board I really didn't like until I rode the flagship. You understand quickly why dudes want that board under their feet when straight lining a couloir but you also never see anyone riding them in the trees in Japan.
> 
> The Hover is similar (but not as bad to me). it really wants to go fast or make big turns, unless you are sized down and can manhandle it more.


True in firm snow, but shouldn't matter in pow and tree stashes.


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## tekniq33 (Mar 18, 2009)

True. Maybe that's more of the difference in my feelings on the 156 vs the 160. I rode the 156 in legit pow and the 160 in mixed conditions. Definitely was not feeling the 160 in the tracked out trees.


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## enjoy (Sep 26, 2014)

Thought the LL was pretty similar



Angler said:


> Cuda or LL not sure which one you are speaking about?


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## enjoy (Sep 26, 2014)

You wouldn't classify the Shreddy as surfy? or just that these two are surfier?



Nivek said:


> More surfy definitely the Fish, or Barracuda.


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## Angler (Nov 28, 2010)

enjoy said:


> Thought the LL was pretty similar


LL has more of a taper and a set back more. Will be a little more surfy.


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## tekniq33 (Mar 18, 2009)

For those that doubt a fish's ability on hardback. I present to you a boy and his biscuit, courtesy of interweb super star Spenser.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IBsEZj9sk1Q


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## Angler (Nov 28, 2010)

tekniq33 said:


> For those that doubt a fish's ability on hardback. I present to you a boy and his biscuit, courtesy of interweb super star Spenser.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IBsEZj9sk1Q


Duly noted! That was fun to watch. Thanks,


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## SGboarder (Jun 24, 2012)

tekniq33 said:


> For those that doubt a fish's ability on hardback. I present to you a boy and his biscuit, courtesy of interweb super star Spenser.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IBsEZj9sk1Q


Actually I think the video does the opposite.

People have been fawning over this clip on EL but it really is not at all what people generally mean by groomer riding/charging. Basically the guy (and keep in mind that he rides way better than most people here) is skateboarding around the mountain with lots of short quick carves/turns and little hops, but no long drawn-out high speed carves etc. Add to that the groomers in the clip are pristine/smooth - and despite this (and while clealry super playful and fun) it does not look very locked in or stable, so just imagine what it would be like on rutted out and bumpy snow...


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## Angler (Nov 28, 2010)

I am not a Fish fan by any means. With that being said I didn't get that the intention of the video was to represent how good the board would do in all conditions. I think it was intended to show that the board could perform on hardback and it did.


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

Angler said:


> I am not a Fish fan by any means. With that being said I didn't get that the intention of the video was to represent how good the board would do in all conditions. I think it was intended to show that the board could perform on hardback and it did.


Exactly. ^


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## ItchEtrigR (Jan 1, 2012)

SGboarder said:


> Actually I think the video does the opposite.
> 
> People have been fawning over this clip on EL but it really is not at all what people generally mean by groomer riding/charging. Basically the guy (and keep in mind that he rides way better than most people here) is skateboarding around the mountain with lots of short quick carves/turns and little hops, but no long drawn-out high speed carves etc. Add to that the groomers in the clip are pristine/smooth - and despite this (and while clealry super playful and fun) it does not look very locked in or stable, so just imagine what it would be like on rutted out and bumpy snow...


It's a 148cm board with a 114.5 effective edge, don't really get what your expecting?


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

ItchEtrigR said:


> It's a 148cm board with a 114.5 effective edge, don't really get what your expecting?


 probably this:


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## stickz (Feb 6, 2013)

tekniq33 said:


> For those that doubt a fish's ability on hardback. I present to you a boy and his biscuit, courtesy of interweb super star Spenser.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IBsEZj9sk1Q


Now I want one


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## tekniq33 (Mar 18, 2009)

Ha! Just realized it says biscuit and not fishcuit. I kind of like it, not editing!


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## ItchEtrigR (Jan 1, 2012)

F1EA said:


> probably this:


Lol hardboot belly rubbing carves on a nugged out fish! I'm sure that dude could pull it off (even though the board is not optimized for that kind of ride) and not complain if he didn't nail it the first few tries cuz half the fun is doing shit that's hard.


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## SGboarder (Jun 24, 2012)

Angler said:


> I am not a Fish fan by any means. With that being said I didn't get that the intention of the video was to represent how good the board would do in all conditions. I think it was intended to show that the board could perform on hardback and it did.


I just don't see the point of the video for this thread. It was just a clip of Spenser having fun and messing around on a day without fresh snow and it is great clip. But there are no 'capabilities on hardback'. Literary every single snowboard in world is capable of doing that kind of riding.



ItchEtrigR said:


> It's a 148cm board with a 114.5 effective edge, don't really get what your expecting?


Did not expect anything. But unless somebody was under the (false) impression that a Fish(cuit) can't be ridden on groomers at all, the video did not demonstrate anything.


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## tekniq33 (Mar 18, 2009)

Look through this thread (and many others) to see how many people are concerned about its ability to handle groomers. People hear pow board and see a big nose and no tail and get worried it can't do anything but float in the deep stuff


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## Angler (Nov 28, 2010)

+1, a lot of people do not get the advance in technology and innovation around the different shapes and bends they have put into boards today. The stereotype is pow board means pow, which isn't the case anymore. The video shows that boards can have a bias to pow but still do well on groomers.


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

SGboarder said:


> I just don't see the point of the video for this thread. It was just a clip of Spenser having fun and messing around on a day without fresh snow and it is great clip. But there are no 'capabilities on hardback'. Literary every single snowboard in world is capable of doing that kind of riding.
> 
> 
> Did not expect anything. But unless somebody was under the (false) impression that a Fish(cuit) can't be ridden on groomers at all, the video did not demonstrate anything.



Whattt!!??
You dont see the point of the video relating to the thread? 

And no, you can't do exactly THAT in any board. Try that on a Salomon Man's board, Yes Pick your Line, Burton Landlord, Carbon Flagship, even a Charlie Slasher and no, it will NOT be as fun. 

Specially at the sizes you would normally use in those boards. And those are all good pow-capable sticks and they can ride groomers, but differently. Yeah you will be able to do the long drawn out turns you mentioned above on these boards, but the mellow groomer slashin fun will not be as.... fun.

Its not exclusive to a fish either. So you do have some point... I'm sure the same applies to the Shreddy. Maybe not so for the Hovercraft.


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## kosmoz (Dec 27, 2013)

all that different feel comes from shorter sidecut radius, much shorter


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

kosmoz said:


> all that different feel comes from shorter sidecut radius, much shorter


And camber profile and stiffness. 

But that is the point.... a board like the Fish will have a sidecut radius, flex and stiffness.... at the size you would normally buy to still be perfect for the intended use (powder)... and still be maneageable in groomers for 'that' riding.

The size you would get for a powerhouse like the PYL or Landlord etc will NOT behave in the same way. It would lend itself way better for the long drawn out turns nipple dragging kind of riding. Yea you can still do it... but then let's all just get a closet door, wax it and go riding.


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## SGboarder (Jun 24, 2012)

F1EA said:


> Whattt!!??
> You dont see the point of the video relating to the thread?
> 
> And no, you can't do exactly THAT in any board. Try that on a Salomon Man's board, Yes Pick your Line, Burton Landlord, Carbon Flagship, even a Charlie Slasher and no, it will NOT be as fun.


Sorry, but totally disagree. Of course you could do exactly that kind of riding in the video with a Man's board, Yes Pick your Line, Burton Landlord, Carbon Flagship, even a Charlie Slasher - one could even do with a BX or Alpine board. That's why the clip tells you absolutely nothing about the groomer capabilities of a Fish, etc.


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## Phedder (Sep 13, 2014)

I think the sidecut does play a huge role in the small playful carves he's doing. Carbon Flag, probably not. Burton Landlord, absolutely. I ride my Flight Attendant similar to how he's riding in the video, quick small carves, slashes, pretty much everything except the tripod hah. I hit tight slalom courses on it no problems too. It has the same general shape, and the same sidecut, 7.8m at 162 as the Landlord. That Fishcuit has a sidecut of 7.5m. I like tight sidecuts for exactly that type of riding, the FA just has a lot more 'meat' to it to be able to support more aggressive charging as well. 

I've just bought an Endeavor Cobain 159 with a sidecut of 7.3m, unfortunately it's summer here so a long time until I can test it but I'm pretty sure I'm going to love it. 

But those groomers also look to be in perfect condition, and he's very skilled. Most boards will ride just fine on good groomers. Getting into some real hard pack or ice is where things can get sketchy.


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

SGboarder said:


> Sorry, but totally disagree. Of course you could do exactly that kind of riding in the video with a Man's board, Yes Pick your Line, Burton Landlord, Carbon Flagship, even a Charlie Slasher - one could even do with a BX or Alpine board. That's why the clip tells you absolutely nothing about the groomer capabilities of a Fish, etc.


Yeah, that's why you have only 1 board. Right?


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## Mizu Kuma (Apr 13, 2014)

F1EA said:


> Yeah, that's why you have only 1 board. Right?


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## ItchEtrigR (Jan 1, 2012)

SGboarder said:


> Sorry, but totally disagree. Of course you could do exactly that kind of riding in the video with a Man's board, Yes Pick your Line, Burton Landlord, Carbon Flagship, even a Charlie Slasher - one could even do with a BX or Alpine board. That's why the clip tells you absolutely nothing about the groomer capabilities of a Fish, etc.


Clips usually don't tell you anything about the board, more the riders ability. You're too caught up in gear tech this and gear tech that. If a dude can ride they can make it work with what they have, especially in the case of a pow board where your sidecut might be too aggressive or your sidecut might be too small because the board has no tail and a massive shovel nose. If you think any small board design is made to make knuckle dragging euro carves easier your in for a world of disappointment cuz you don't seem like the guy who would have fun with a new challenge.


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## tekniq33 (Mar 18, 2009)

someone is missing the point. It could be me but I think its you guys. 

There are people out there that think pow boards can only be ridden in pow and cant handle everything else (or you need to be a great rider to get them to handle everything else). Outside of a board with reverse sidecut or no edges, that is not the case.

I am the one that posted the fishcuit video. The reason was simply to show a pow board being ridden in a non-pow scenario. 

If anyone out there was under the impression that was not something that could be done, that would obviously alleviate their concerns. 

simple as that


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## Mizu Kuma (Apr 13, 2014)

tekniq33 said:


> someone is missing the point. It could be me but I think its you guys.
> 
> There are people out there that think pow boards can only be ridden in pow and cant handle everything else (or you need to be a great rider to get them to handle everything else). Outside of a board with reverse sidecut or no edges, that is not the case.
> 
> ...


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

tekniq33 said:


> someone is missing the point. It could be me but I think its you guys.
> 
> There are people out there that think pow boards can only be ridden in pow and cant handle everything else (or you need to be a great rider to get them to handle everything else). Outside of a board with reverse sidecut or no edges, that is not the case.
> 
> ...


hehehe don't worry about that.
The video was super cool and to the point.  :hairy:


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## SGboarder (Jun 24, 2012)

ItchEtrigR said:


> Clips usually don't tell you anything about the board, more the riders ability. You're too caught up in gear tech this and gear tech that. If a dude can ride they can make it work with what they have, especially in the case of a pow board where your sidecut might be too aggressive or your sidecut might be too small because the board has no tail and a massive shovel nose. If you think any small board design is made to make knuckle dragging euro carves easier your in for a world of disappointment cuz you don't seem like the guy who would have fun with a new challenge.


That was exactly my point... The video (while cool) does not really tell us anything about how the board rides.
Also agree that the tech talk is way OTT. People obsess about minor differences in sidecut or profile that are probably imperceptible to most riders.


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## TimelessDescent (Oct 26, 2014)

Here's some footage of a Nitro the Quiver 154 cm standard camber pow board. This board often gets overlooked....which is a tragedy for snowboarding.

Nobody is laying carves like this guy doing on the nitro. Stability and float all day.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=usf_dPzUYBs


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## ItchEtrigR (Jan 1, 2012)

SGboarder said:


> That was exactly my point... The video (while cool) does not really tell us anything about how the board rides.
> Also agree that the tech talk is way OTT. People obsess about minor differences in sidecut or profile that are probably imperceptible to most riders.


I guess your right about the video, doesnt really show anything but Spencer having a lot of fun on a mini pow deck.


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

I've put a couple of really fun days on the Fish.

Such a fun board. Great for cruising around, jumping off everything, slashing all over the place. Was great in trees, unsinkable; ok on bigger faces (great if smooth, but showed some weakness when chopped). 

Handled the groomers alright, but i definitely did not find it as fun as that guy in the video. I'm on the 161 though, so that plays a part. It's pretty wide and torsionally stiff. Held the edges fine, but the short hoppy turns took some extra muscle..... again 161, plus I was on Genesis. Maybe with more responsive bindings i would have been able to add some agility on groomers. But still, as it was, just awesome whenever it was deep and soft and the cattracks were pretty fun too. I was jumping off everything, slashing... trees were awesome. Even soft moguls. But it's not very damp, so chop and hard moguls are not your friends. Not terrible though.

I'd say it's about a perfect heli/cat/backcountry or weekday powder day board when you'll be hitting untracked stuff all day.

I would say it is pretty similar to the Charlie Slasher, but the Charlie feels faster, looser, yet stable with much longer edge and does not feel as unsinkae as the Fish. Also, the Charlie is not even close to being as lively as the Fish, a lot stiffer too.

The D1 is still my go to board for anything though.


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