# Carving / freestyle stance



## foreveryoung (11 mo ago)

I'm strong intermediate rider doing carving-jumps-tricks-butters-switch and I'm having +15/-15. I've found symmetric duck stance the best and I don't have any problems with carving either.


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## Yeahti87 (Jan 17, 2019)

15/-15 duck stance on my do it all all mnt fs board Nitro Suprateam so not really my best setup for carving.

Got a bit better lately than this but once you get your carving improved on ++ angles it’s much easier to apply some good habits on the symmetrical duck imo and the FS stance isn’t as limiting at carving as it was before.

For me the best balance point is around 21/-6 or -9 for carving and some fs. Stance around 58 cm at 186 cm.


http://imgur.com/a/vpQvBku


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## easyrider16 (Sep 28, 2020)

I like +27, -3 for freeride, +24, -6 for freestyle. For boards with more tortional stiffness, I like a more positive stance, like +33, +3 or more, but balance on bumps and jumps starts to suffer the more positive I go. But on the plus side (ha) toe side turns in complex terrain become much easier.


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## Ole (Mar 25, 2019)

For carving: +27 / +12 (stance width 52 - 56 cm), 
freeride: +18 / -6 (stance width 56 - 60),
twinboards: +15 / -15 (stance width 56 - 58 cm)


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## QReuCk2 (11 mo ago)

I'm 178cm (5'11) tall and 76kg
I've learnt how to snowboard with something like 52cm stance width, +24/+6, out of observing where my feet were placed naturally when surfing.
I later added some width for stability, then tried negative at the rear foot in order to be more comfortable while rolling back the rear knee on straights, which I found out helps with flat base stability.
That was some 20 years ago... I then tried various stance width and angles combination, I now ride switch a lot and do a lot of side hits small rotations and flatland tricks whenever I ride in a resort (my splitboarding is still more wide curves on normal stance dominated).
Now my default stance is 58 cm wide with +18/-9, for pretty much everything. Depending on my feeling of the specific board, It can actually go anywhere from 56 to 61cm wide, with a bit more splay if 61, and a bit less if 56. Depending on the program and the width of the board, more splay can either be more front foot angle or more back foot duck. 

For carving, I used to dislike more than negative 9 on the backfoot, because rolling in your back knee on too much of a negative rear foot can put some torsional force on the board resulting in less edge hold on the back and that can be detrimental to heel carves. I actually worked on my duck-stance specific carving technique to overcome this, and I no longer think this is as important as I thought it was. I even discovered I can carve switch even if my switch back foot is at -18. Still doesn't want to go full symetric duck as I like the feeling of a bit of upper body rotation on heelside carve and it is easier/more natural with moderate backfoot negative angles in my opinion.
I also like a bit of forward lean on the spoilers. Not over the top, but I think it helps a bit on the heelside, especially if you gonna stay low to have your legs absorbing uneven terrain.
Anyway, play with different settings, also do play with different carving techniques and build your own by applying the ingredients you see fit to your case. I personnally learnt a lot from the (no longer online?) bomberonline forum, extremecarving forum, Ryan Knapton tutorials and this very forum. I kinda enjoyed the deep carving thread from Kijima. Lots of ideas flying around. Obviously not everyone agrees on everything, but that gives ideas of things to try, then you see for yourself what applies to you.


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## MrDavey2Shoes (Mar 5, 2018)

Carving +36/+12 to +15 depending on board
Freestyle and everything else is +24/+6

I run between a 20 and 21 inch stance.

+6 gives up almost nothing


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## BobbyGrand (Jan 3, 2014)

carving / freeride +18 / +6 22.5 inch stance.


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## BoardieK (Dec 21, 2015)

Carving: +30 +21 all this season at 20" (5ft 7in).
Canted footbeds 2.5 front 4 rear.
More highback forward lean on rear.
Very stiff boots and bindings.

All great until it gets mogulled 

No freestyle, no jumps.


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## Etienne (Apr 2, 2021)

Café Racer: +30/+12 ≳55cm, Asymulator: +15/-15 ≳58cm, Slash Straight and Sick split: +24/-6 ≲60cm. I know some people like to have a very precise stance, but I'd rather be closer to the reference stance (usually just an hair more) to let the board flex as it was supposed to.

My biggest surprise was how easy it was to ride +15/-15 on my twin, something I hardly ever did in 30 years. Yet I was at home on the first run. Compared to +/+ angles, it's a different kind of body positionning, where you have to actively avoid over-rotating shoulders and drive your back leg differently. But once you get it, it's second nature and you can carve very hard (but not as low) while keeping stability for tricks and all. +15/-15 rides pretty similar to +24/-9 for me, except slightly less powerful for carving (but on different boards too…). 

If your big toe hurts with negative angle, it's probably that you are rotating your hip inward, something you want to avoid whatever the stance/width. Wider stance can help you find a more "deep" squat positionning that could avoid that. Although, one of the biggest I made times ago was to have too much stance. At first I was feeling I had more power, so every once in a while, I would just add a bit more and a bit more until… knee pain, but it was also hurting my riding, feeling less natural. You should be able to deep squat, but also to be comfortable legs slightly bent.


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## lbs123 (Jan 24, 2017)

@Etienne isn't rotating hip inward something you supposed to do when carving? I mean at least in the Japanese/Korua style of carving when you utilize open stance.

Next time, I'm going to try +21/-6 based on the input from this thread. I think I was able to do pretty advance carving even with my former +15/-9 stance, but going +/+ opened my eyes a bit. Now looking for some compromise for carving/freestyle fun in one session. Of course, switching between different boards/angles for different riding styles on a particular day would do the job, but I don't have enough days per season to justify such dedicated days. (Still would go +/+ occasionally.)


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## Etienne (Apr 2, 2021)

Imo, rotating your hip inward and having your knees touch each other is ineffecient and makes you lose lot of power and mobility. I you were to lift a heavy object, you wouldn't do it right? It's pretty anti-anatomic. 

I really prefer styles that keeps a good knee spread, like :









They still carve with a very +/+ style, with a lot of upper body rotation and forward lean, but don't unnecessarily lock their lower body. Of course, there are a lot of good carver who still tuck their back knee inward, but I always feel like they make only "one kind of turn/radius".


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## QReuCk2 (11 mo ago)

Etienne said:


> Imo, rotating your hip inward and having your knees touch each other is ineffecient and makes you lose lot of power and mobility. I you were to lift a heavy object, you wouldn't do it right? It's pretty anti-anatomic.
> 
> I really prefer styles that keeps a good knee spread, like :
> 
> ...


Ha! I was very curious about what you meant exactly. Now I see its almost all about tucking the back knee, which I believe to be very detrimental when combined with pronounced duck stance and torsionally playfull board. Still, upper body rotation and a very tiny bit of hips rotation might be applied. But it's very easy to overdo it and i'd rather think about it as gently rolling the front knee in against the highback while keeping the back knee out, which is just another way of describing the style you are advocating.


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## Etienne (Apr 2, 2021)

Yeah sorry, might be my english 🥖. I'm totally not against pelvis and upper body rotation, but really against tucking the back knee and rotating the back leg (which causes an inward hip rotation I believe).


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## lbs123 (Jan 24, 2017)

Etienne said:


> I really prefer styles that keeps a good knee spread, like :


This makes sense and looks nice. Previously, I thought you were talking about something like Ryan Knapton's style with knees out (I guess it works for him with +15/-15 stance) or that basic carving with body parallel to the board that some YouTubers teach.

So I will pay attention to that next time and try to avoid tucking the knee as it indeed could cause my big toe pain.


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## drblast (Feb 28, 2017)

I've ridden just about every stance but this year it's been mostly +12/-9 and a narrow stance for me (~22" which is reference on most of my boards). I'm 6'3" with long legs. Previous years I'd have a 23" or 23.5" stance width.

When I'm riding groomers my upper body is fairly open facing down the fall line. I think the narrow stance helps with rotating my body and having enough wiggle room to stay loose. I'm riding switch a lot this year so a +/+ stance isn't comfortable.


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## Etienne (Apr 2, 2021)

Well, yes the Knapton style is pretty much what you aim for with a freestyle setup. But the way you squat isn't that different with a +/+ setup. Your positionning relative to the board, the weight transfert etc. are totally different, but in the end it's mainly a power squat.

Another good example–pardon the hard boots and cheesy edits—is Nevin Galmarini. Form wise he is flawless, no useless movement, super solid core, super solid legs aligned with the body.


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## lbs123 (Jan 24, 2017)

I'm not a big fan of Knapton's style, it looks weird to me probably because of that wide stance and exaggerated upper body movements. 

Anwyay, I get your point about legs/knees aligned to the stance, however, I just did a few squants and it seems the upper body rotation matters too. When I squat with my upper body paralel to my lower body, my knees go to the sides equally and they stay aligned with toes. There's about 35cm distance between my knees. When I rotate my upper body by 45 degrees and squat, my rear knee moves to the front by around 10 cm. My knees are still apart by around 25cms and such squat feels more natural than keeping knees aligned with the toes. However, if I try to tuck knee more, it starts to feel unnatural and painful which proves your original point.


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## WigMar (Mar 17, 2019)

Etienne said:


> Of course, there are a lot of good carver who still tuck their back knee inward, but I always feel like they make only "one kind of turn/radius".


I'm not sure I'm fully following you. One of the things I like most about ++ angles is pointing my rear knee forwards. I'm not really talking about tucking the rear knee behind the front knock-kneed style- is that what you mean? I'm still very capable of bending my board into many different turn shapes. It's easy to center flex the board with your rear leg pointing forwards.

Nevin Galmarini looks great carving in that video. His rear knee is facing forward like I'm talking about. That personally looks much better to me than Knapton's wide duck stance thing. Can't say I love the knock-kneed look either. Knock-kneed heel turns combined with butt in the air toe turns is pretty bad style imo.


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## Etienne (Apr 2, 2021)

WigMar said:


> I'm not really talking about tucking the rear knee behind the front knock-kneed style- is that what you mean?


Yeah that's what I meant, exactly. It's ugly that's one thing, but it's very limitating too imo. Like this Japanese dude, he's really good, but if you look at his videos, he has one turn each way pretty much:






Envoyé de mon H8324 en utilisant Tapatalk


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## ladesaulniers (12 mo ago)

~22.5 inches
front +21 or +24 degrees
back +3 or +6 degrees

All mountain rad dad powder seeking freeriding carver dude!


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## bluesjumper (Nov 15, 2011)

For 25 years all I've ever used is +18/+6. Now for first time interested in trying other stances. I ride regular. I'm 47 years old, lately my front knee has started to act up. I'm curious, are there some stances that put more pressure on your front knee than others?


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