# NYT Article on Tunnel Creek Avalanche



## DrnknZag

Part one:

http://projects.nytimes.com/2012/snow-fall-preview/#/?part=tunnel-creek


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## KIRKRIDER

chilling.................


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## killclimbz

Good article, though I am starting to wonder how much can be written about this avalanche. Tunnel Creek is turning into a water shed moment of sorts. Anything that helps raise awareness is about as good of a thing that can come out of this tragedy.


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## walove

article is good

i've thought the same thing....
it is a good example to the resort access group of bc users which seems to be rapidly growing and increasingly advertised to. It is also a good example of group dynamics with groups of any experience level, especially some comments in the espn article. I think the public views it differently when a group with more experience gets caught vs the unaware. Seems like there is more about tunnel creek than the Manaslu avalanche. Mt climbing is viewed as extreme skiing powder is having fun.


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## SnowRock

Wow.. that is pretty well done by the Times in terms of using interactive, multi-media features. Tough read


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## schmitty34

Man, just read the whole thing.....tough read, but very well done.


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## cjcameron11

It is an amazing read, it just stuns me how so many experienced people can still get caught up in the allure of fresh powder. Hindsight is a wonderful thing and it seems that quite a few people knew that the group was not in the best position and maybe shouldn't have been there in the first place.

Still really sad and hopefully as others have said this leads to more education and less tragedy.


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## AdamBQ

Did anyone else notice the one guy take his transceiver out of his pack to go into search mode?


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## killclimbz

Yeah, I noticed that. Bad form for sure, but at that point, I am not really going to critique people who had to deal with such a horrible situation.


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## cjcameron11

AdamBQ said:


> Did anyone else notice the one guy take his transceiver out of his pack to go into search mode?


What did he do? i must have missed that.


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## killclimbz

If you watch the inter active video in the section where the guys who took the safer route down found ski gear sticking out of avalanche debris. The POV guys goes into his pack to pull out his beacon. When you are using a beacon, it should be used with the harness, attached to your body under your ski gear. Packs can get ripped off in an avalanche. Outer wear can get ripped, so putting it in a jacket or pant pocket is not recommended either. It's bad form, and not one avalanche school will tell you to do this. 

At this point it's nit picking. I just don't know why you wouldn't wear your beacon in the normal fashion. You don't even know it's there.


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## wrathfuldeity

killclimbz said:


> Yeah, I noticed that. Bad form for sure, but at that point, I am not really going to critique people who had to deal with such a horrible situation.


A couple weeks ago in my 2 day avy class we spent some time...most everybody had read/seen the article and general consensus was that it is a required read. We did critique (not the article) some their actions/decisions or the lack thereof; to which one of the take away main parts is that of human/individual/group behavior. Our instructors felt that learning about avy terrain, snow conditions and metamorphosis , weather, route finding is relatively easy and straight forward; but that human behavior and group behavior/dynamics...communication, decision making and etc. is the more difficult factor in avy awareness.

edit...in someways I really hate to note this because it is against my nature and better judgement...because protocols do not address everything and can be too heavily relied upon as a crutch/excuse for good judgement and instincts. But it would be nice to see a checklist and a demonstration of recommended protocol say at the bc gate, during the approach, when dropping the line and when evaluating the bc mission. You know examples of positive behavior instead of critiquing examples of bad behavior/accidents.


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## killclimbz

Wrath,

You have to learn from other peoples mistakes. Every avalanche accident I have scene, the victim in some way has been responsible for their death or injuries. It is always the human factor. Hence the reason to read the analysis as to what happened, so that hopefully you are aware of the danger when you face it. For most of these accidents, it's pretty obvious what you need to watch for. Every now and then, there is something that I learn to watch out for. It's tough, because in general, people have died. I don't like critiquing them either. I certainly don't want to tap dance on someone's grave.

Your avy class should stress the good behavior and protocols part of backcountry travel. 

The bc check list has been hashed around back and forth for years. It's a tough one, because to some people, if the list checks out it means go for it, regardless of other considerations. I would like to see more beacon check stations at resort accessed bc gates. I wouldn't mind a sign that said, "this many people have died here since ..." and with a quick description of what you should be prepared for. The reality is, almost every bc spot I go to has a sign warning you of dangers and people will blindly walk on. 

Education is the best defense, yet even the educated get popped. 

Your questions and observations are tough ones to deal with and valid. There is no one right way, but certainly a right direction. Getting people to think about what they are doing all the time is about the most key point. A distance of a few feet can mean the difference between life and death in this game.


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## ShredLife

i can't read this thread without stating:

a 16 person group is about 10 people too big. its a little boggling to me that it isn't discussed more regarding this incident because it is the largest single factor as to why it happened - imho. 

the terrain is a straight-up terrain trap and it was after a big fresh dump. 

i'm not trying to be a dickhole or anything here, but noops and people planning on/thinking about getting in to bc riding need to hear this stuff and those already savvy need to objectively take lessons from this. it really can happen to anyone, but there are reasons that this happened and frankly - there was too much stoke.


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## wrathfuldeity

Killz, 
I completely agree with learning from other's mistakes and have no basis for argument...being a noob and such. However I have trained folks for years in fairly complex human interaction situations and showing them and having them practice a protocol/framework gets them comfortable in interacting with others in a group...which we did not do in the course. In a crew that goes out together, they by experience develop a pattern (good or bad); but in cases of ad hoc group at the gate, newbies, and perhaps when two crews intersect/interact in the bc...having an expected communication protocol would be good. To which, I would assume experienced bc'ers would do...but for us newbs to see it done and know that it is a standard thang...so we wouldn't be too hesitant to speak up. Oh nevermind....I just need to get out more, wear my noob flag and work through my anxieties.


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## linvillegorge

killclimbz said:


> I would mind a sign that said, "this many people have died here since ..." and with a quick description of what you should be prepared for. The reality is, almost every bc spot I go to has a sign warning you of dangers and people will blindly walk on.
> 
> 
> 
> Yep, sounds good in theory, but it doesn't work.
> 
> This is a pic of the sign posted on the Kalalau Trail at the final approach to Hanakapiai Beach in Kauai.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yet, every year there's more hash marks. People die there every year despite all the warnings. The locals will tell you that many of the warnings are just to ward off idiot tourists, but this is one that they all heed. That beach will kill your ass.
Click to expand...


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## ShredLife

to be fair, that sign looks like something out of a Scooby Doo episode - the ones i've seen at gates are usually more ominous, more official looking. i appreciate your point tho... i wonder if its the hashmarks? the ones i've seen have the word DEATH pretty prominently.


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## killclimbz

16 person group is huge. You definitely want to break it up into smaller groups. Which is what sounds like happened. The thing is they didn't stick to the plan to stay away from Tunnel Creek proper. 

Anyway Shred, all of your observations are completely valid. No argument here.


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## killclimbz

And wrath, take your time dipping your big toe into the game. You have to start small and work your way into more complex terrain as you get comfortable negotiating the hazards. What I will do today, is completely different from when I started. The same rules apply, but I am more comfortable in recognizing what can or can not be done. Nothing wrong with keeping it dialed back, in fact it will probably save you, your family, and friends heartbreak.


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## cjcameron11

killclimbz said:


> If you watch the inter active video in the section where the guys who took the safer route down found ski gear sticking out of avalanche debris. The POV guys goes into his pack to pull out his beacon. When you are using a beacon, it should be used with the harness, attached to your body under your ski gear. Packs can get ripped off in an avalanche. Outer wear can get ripped, so putting it in a jacket or pant pocket is not recommended either. It's bad form, and not one avalanche school will tell you to do this.
> 
> At this point it's nit picking. I just don't know why you wouldn't wear your beacon in the normal fashion. You don't even know it's there.



Thanks for letting me know, i saw that video but didn't realise thats what was wrong. Makes sense now that you have pointed it out.


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## philadendron

I read it and as chilling as it was, it was also really informative and well done. I appreciated the videos from their GoPros.


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## scotty100

ShredLife said:


> i can't read this thread without stating:
> 
> a 16 person group is about 10 people too big. its a little boggling to me that it isn't discussed more regarding this incident because it is the largest single factor as to why it happened - imho.
> 
> the terrain is a straight-up terrain trap and it was after a big fresh dump.
> 
> i'm not trying to be a dickhole or anything here, but noops and people planning on/thinking about getting in to bc riding need to hear this stuff and those already savvy need to objectively take lessons from this. it really can happen to anyone, but there are reasons that this happened and frankly - there was too much stoke.


+1...when I first read that article, which I thought was excellent, what struck me was the dynamics within a group that size. All were apparently very capable, highly skilled, experienced etc. but what made them throw all their better judgment out the window and follow the main guy's lead like lemmings off the proverbial cliff? The snowboarder that turned around when she realized what was actually going on did the right thing but kinda failed to raise her concerns at the same time, which I thought was a huge mistake. In the end, I was struck by the fact that peer pressure seemed to override good sense and judgment. People ended up dying because some in the group didn't want to lose face, scared they would be perceived as "weak" or somehow less capable than those they were skiing/riding with? I find that inexplicable.


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## killclimbz

Just a bump.

Today marks the one year anniversary of this accident. For what ever reason this one brought the backcountry into the main stream consciousness. If you haven't read the NYT article in this thread, now is a good time to do so. 

RIP guys.


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## snowklinger

I noticed the main point of the mistake here seems to be the 16man group, and it is ironic that almost a year to the day later an A-Basin ski patroller takes 14 people into in-bounds avy terrain and gets everyone caught in a pretty big slide. Maybe it isn't my place being no BC expert, but I certainly am one to join ski patrol tours for untouched stuff in bounds via hike, etc...but one person got completely buried, nobody died....WTF!?!



















This just happened saturday!!!(CAIC report)


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## ShredLife

holy fuck. 12 ft crown, down to the ground. they're lucky as hell they didn't get someone killed. 










Accident Summary

Preliminary Report:

On February 16th at approximately 2:45pm, a group of riders was caught in an avalanche in Montezuma Bowl at the Arapahoe Basin ski area. The group consisted of 14 customers and 1 ski patroller. The area was closed to the general public, but the group was participating in directed skiing. Directed skiing pairs ski area customers with staff and is conducted in areas with a highly variable snow cover after avalanche hazard mitigation has been completed.

The avalanche released on a south-southeast facing slope at approximately 12,200 feet*. The crown face was 330 feet wide and ranged in depth from 16 inches to nearly 12 feet*. It was a hard-slab avalanche, triggered by a skier, of medium size relative to the path, large enough to cause significant injury, which broke into old snow and to the ground in places (AS-HS-R3-D2.5-O/G).

CAIC staff visited the site on February 17th, and are conducing a review of the accident with Arapahoe Basin staff. A full report will be available during the week of February 25th.


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## killclimbz

Whoa guys. A-Basin fucked up but this was not out of character either. They had blasted this ridge several times over the past week. The skiers were participating in "directed skiing". This is what ski areas do when a run or runs at just about at that depth where they want to open them for everyone. They let a group of skiers gang fuck the terrain and pack it down a bit. That way when the next decent snow comes they can open it and people are not scraping it all off to the ground. 

The biggest problems are that Montezuma bowl is relatively new. They do not have decades of blasting experience and avalanche releases that all ski areas rely on. Meadows, Baker, Squaw, Winterpark, etc. I guarantee that ski patrol took note of that sweet spot the skier hit that triggered this thing. I'm sure that will get blasted all to hell in future seasons. The only big problem I have with it is that they took people in the exact terrain that CAIC had been warning about for the past three weeks. 

Good news is, everyone came out alive with one semi minor injury. A skier got a torn MCL. This was an area ski patrol had taken control measures in, this was not backcountry skiing in the normal sense.

Intimate knowledge of terrain really help ski patrol in their mitigation efforts. Even the best areas have accidents though. Remember Alpine Meadows lost a patroller to avalanche control this year. In an area that was always considered a safe zone and they had 60 years of data to back that claim. Unfortunately you get these once in a hundred year conditions that catch the pros off guard. Being that I don't think Montezuma has been open 5 years they missed this nuance. 

Again not saying they are without fault, but this was not an irregular action either.


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## linvillegorge

I'm just glad no one got killed. Definitely some major bullets dodged on this one. They got lucky as hell. I'm sure this really shook up A-Basin and their patrol team. That's pretty much a nightmare scenario for them. Green lighting terrain for 14 guests then having them all caught in a large avalanche? Holy fuck. I bet they got a call from their insurance company the next day and caught an earful.


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## snowklinger

I have dreams of one day shredding Pali face top to bottom in 3 feet of pow (i've only ever seen it pretty much closed or boilerplate rocky moguls) but they have twin nightmares of the whole thing sliding....that is one long steep run.....


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## killclimbz

Done Pallavicini in over 2 feet of pow. Not much of a worry about the whole thing sliding. The new snow is the only worry and that is generally not consolidated enough. It does slough off big time in the steep trees in the lower part of the run. Kind of a pita traversing across too...


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## StaySaucy

Thank you for this article. This is actually the first I've ever heard about this accident. It was really heartbreaking. RIP to our brothers. The danger of doing something you love. 

God bless everyone. That story was very humbling.


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