# Need help!



## collectingpennies (Mar 31, 2015)

I'm new on here... so I just went snowboarding the last weekend with a friend and I finally got have a video of me going down one entire run. I've been snowboarding a few times this season- just picked it back up last year after 10 years of no snowboarding. So I'm pretty much back to square 1. 

I know I'm just drifting around and not really carving. My knees to be more bent and get on my edges. I am more comfortable going on my heel side but I have confidence issues on going toe side. Any suggestions? Thank you.


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## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

Welcome back to the addiction. You are abit stiff, static, riding with weight in the middle of the board and rotated open. Loosen up, squat up and down, get on the nose to initiate turns and close your shoulders and get in the box. But you will pick it up quickly.


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## slyder (Jan 18, 2010)

marjaruth said:


> so I just went snowboarding the last weekend with a friend and I finally got have a video of me going down one entire run. I've been snowboarding a few times this season- just picked it back up last year after 10 years of no snowboarding. So I'm pretty much back to square 1.


I wish I was that good after a few days. Square one...no way.. you got this. Nice come back.

I would suggest either pointing your back or right hand to the tail of your board or grab your back leg pants some where high up. This will quite your arm from moving around yet keep you stable and in an athletic stance. Not all straight standing like a robot. This will help your turns. 

You will be back carving in no time. Looks like a perfect run for getting back onto the board. Nice and long and open. 
Keep us posted


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## collectingpennies (Mar 31, 2015)

Thanks everyone. I dabbled in a quite bit of snowboarding high school where I stopped 10 years ago but obviously not enough. I skied my whole life and am a way way better skier than snowboarder. I was self-taught to snowboard. I watched my brother snowboard growing up and would practice on a small slope in my backyard. 

I have a hard time trusting my board 100%. I'm only there maybe 70% with trusting my board. I think it is partially because I just bought it 3 trips prior to this video. I guess my fear is more of will I catch an edge and fall? Will I get hurt if I fall? I don't have the confidence to ride down a blue or black because of that- the fear of catching an edge and fall down badly. I mostly either brake or do the falling leaf down these runs. I know I do need to get more dynamic and if I correct all these issues I'll be having no problems. 

This coming weekend, I'll be going on my last trip to snowboard. I will try to get my friend to do a video and post it to compare if I have improved or not.


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## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

generally if you turn from the nose and have weight on your nose and enough speed to complete the turn...you won't catch an edge. did this for another formite...here ya go for a bit of review.


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## collectingpennies (Mar 31, 2015)

wrathfuldeity said:


> generally if you turn from the nose and have weight on your nose and enough speed to complete the turn...you won't catch an edge. did this for another formite...here ya go for a bit of review.


Yeah I've seen that video but the issue is that I don't even understand what he's saying. :sad1: The reason why I can't understand- I'm deaf. Quite difficult to follow what he's saying though. 

speed is one of my issues- I can gain speed but I'm scared to so in general, I normally brake before I go too fast beyond my comfort zone.


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## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

marjaruth said:


> I'm deaf. Quite difficult to follow what he's saying though.
> 
> speed is one of my issues- I can gain speed but I'm scared to so in general, I normally brake before I go too fast beyond my comfort zone.


Got to do some errands...but later to day will try to some transcribing and noting the time on the vid.


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## ekb18c (Mar 11, 2013)

What worked for me was when transitioning to a toe side turn, use your knee and point your knee towards the direction you want to go. In turn, if you knee points one way, your shoulders will follow you. Push your knee down and towards the toe side turn but please make sure you bend your knees more or else you will go flying on an uneven surface. Imagine if your knee is a joystick. Whatever way you point with your knee, the board will go that way. 

I think you also have an opened left shoulder. To eliminate this try keep your right hand parallel to your body and towards the tail of the board.


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## collectingpennies (Mar 31, 2015)

My issue is that when I do go on my toes, I feel like I'm going to trip over-- again that's the fear so I don't do toe side very well as well i do on my heels. I keep forgetting to bend my knees. I know- super important when it comes to snowboarding but old habits die hard. I've developed a nasty habit of keeping my legs straight while snowboarding. 

Also... how can I stop having to brake midway down? I always brake because I want to slow down my speed. How do I reduce my speed without of having to brake?


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## Mystery2many (Aug 14, 2013)

Speed check turns. Looks like to me you just need to ride more. The more you ride the more confident you will become and the rest will fall into place. Also a one on one lesson could do you some real good.


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## collectingpennies (Mar 31, 2015)

Mystery2many said:


> Speed check turns. Looks like to me you just need to ride more. The more you ride the more confident you will become and the rest will fall into place. Also a one on one lesson could do you some real good.


What's a speed check turn?


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

What you need to do is bend those knees. Maybe try a wider stance amd concentrate on bending the knees. It will tire you, but that's how it is.

Speed checks ARE braking. What you can do to shave speed without braking is doing longer uphill turns (ie make a long turn accross the slope where you ride uphill for a bit at the end of the turn).


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## ekb18c (Mar 11, 2013)

marjaruth said:


> My issue is that when I do go on my toes, I feel like I'm going to trip over-- again that's the fear so I don't do toe side very well as well i do on my heels. I keep forgetting to bend my knees. I know- super important when it comes to snowboarding but old habits die hard. I've developed a nasty habit of keeping my legs straight while snowboarding.
> 
> Also... how can I stop having to brake midway down? I always brake because I want to slow down my speed. How do I reduce my speed without of having to brake?



I think you feel like you are falling over is because perhaps you are too straight and knees not bent and you are leaning with your upper body. Instead try what F1EA said, bend those knees and make your stance wider and also lead with your knee. Put your knee down towards the toe side and put pressure with your shins against your boot. 

What I did was practice on the toe side turns a lot while going across the entire trail. It sounds like you are ok with your heel side but a little sketchy on your toe side. 

Watch this video it demonstrates some of the techniques that everyone had mentioned and it has a close caption too. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jy5wEU-gLKc


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## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

Marjaruth

Written notes on the vid about neutral stance and basic movements.

00.10-1.30
Talking about rotating or tilting your pelvis forward. To do this you tighten or squeeze your butt cheeks and tighten your core or abdomen. Riding with your pelvis rotated forward is important because you get your center of gravity over the mid-line of your board. And then you can squat in your knees instead of bending at your waist.

Then think of your quads as your shock absorbers so you can bounce up and down. Generally you want to use your big muscles and your big joints like your hips and your knees and your quads because it is much more efficient to use your big muscles and joints instead of your little muscles in your calves feet and your ankle joint. Do not use your calf muscles and ride on your tippy toes, you will burn your calves.

Just doing the humpy…tilt or rotate the pelvis/hips forward.

1.30-2.30
Talking about the neutral stance. First noticed the the long piece of tape on the board, that is the mid-line of your board and you want the mid-line of your foot (notice the piece of tape on my lead foot)… To be matched over the mid-line of your board. And then you also want your lead hip also be lined up over the mid-line of the board along with you leading shoulder. This is called being stacked over the mid-line of the board and aligned with hips and shoulders (parallel) over the mid-line of your board.

You don’t want to have your arms flailing about or your shoulders rotated open, Riding with your invisible friend (grab your rear pant leg with your rear hand and hold on...to avoid the invisible friend). Basically you want your upper body to be quiet, your back straight, your shoulders and hips closed (meaning parallel with the board) and you want to sink in your knees so you can bounce up and down in your knees using your quads as shock absorbers. Think of the bottom of your board as the bottom of a cereal box. You want to keep all of your body parts stacked and aligned inside of the cereal box.

2.30-3.10
Talking about width of your stance. My natural stance is about a 22", think about having your shoulders fit inside of your feet. If you have too narrow the stance, when you go to squat you will tend to bend more at the waist. Versus widening your stance you can then squat in the knees and avoid bending at the waist and will also be able to keep your back straight.

So get on your board and check to make sure you have a wide enough stance to be able to squat and not bend at the waist. A lot of newbs tend to have too narrow of a stance which all so contributes to bending at the waist and even riding with their legs to stiff or straight.

3.10-4.10
Talking about being in the neutral stance and you are basically moving in three dimensions. First you’re moving toes side and then moving heel side… Notice how I’m pointing my lead hand toes side and then heel side. You’re also moving forward toward the nose or aft toward the tail. And you are also moving up and down… That is squatting up and down.

Sideways... here I’m talking about matching your center of gravity to be over the center line of your board notice the tape… LOL. Again I am talking about you cruising and bouncing along...you want all of your body parts inside the cereal box and your shoulders and hips closed being parallel to the board.

4.10-4.50
Talking about riding in a squat position to develop dynamic riding that is squatting in your knees and moving your body up and down. So you can ride in the squat position with your elbows resting on your knees and it is reasonably comfortable. It takes very little movement to turn. To go toeside just drive your knee towards the center of the toeside turn. And to go heelside swing your leading knee forward towards the nose and your start going heelside. A practice drill is to ride crouched/squatting for a good ways...and then ride and just to move up and down on your board while you are cruising along... from a complete squat (keep your back straight) to standing up... just noticed the difference. 

***Then you can easily start to incorporate squatting and driving both knees in a toeside turn...and likewise squatting/dumping/sitting on the toliet for heelside turns. This squatting/dumping helps to stack your center of gravity/weight over the edges...so that you can rail/trench a carve without washing or sliding out...in more technical terms its called...getting/being "angulated" on the edge during a carve.

4.50-5.25
Talking about how your center of gravity moves across the board when you going in a heel side carve and you squatting… Your center of gravity is moving toward and over the heal side edge of your board. And when you’re doing a toes side carve and squatting in the middle of the turn with your weight centered in the middle of your board… You’re really driving your knees the center of gravity will be moving toward and over the toes side edge of your board.

5.25-5.35… Alzheimer’s...wtf was I talking about 

5.40-6.15
Talking about weighting your nose and seeing how your center of gravity in the neutral position is over the center-line of your board and to put weight on the nose you simply shift your hips sideways towards the nose. Thereby moving your center of gravity forward to the nose. Putting weight on the nose will immediately take out or eliminate any squirreliness of the board. If your riding with weight on the nose, or in the front seat… You will not catch an edge. The whole idea of having weight on your nose is a very important concept to figure out. Because this allows you to ride flat-based, to ride flats, to skate and ride one footed and to get off the chairlift without falling.

6.15-7.20
Talking about using your front knee as your steering wheel. To go toe side you going to drive your knee leading knee towards the center of the term. And you’re also going to get your shoulder point pointed towards the center of your turn and twist the leading hip into the turn. And to go heel side you going to swing your front knee towards the nose and then add your hips and your leading shoulder into that rotation also. So the basic idea is steer with your front knee and also get your hip and shoulder all going in the same direction.

***To initiate turns...you want to weight the nose, then drive or swing your leading knee. Also a good drill is to use your lead hand/index finger to point to toeside or heel side (like I'm doing in the vid)...this drill helps to keep your weight on the nose/front seat and helps keep your shoulder and hip all working together. You should real start to feel "lock-in" when initiating the turns/carves.

7.30-8.40
Talking about basically being stacked in the box and having your upper body quiet. You want to steer from the bottom up because it is much more efficient and quicker. Versus if you steer from the top down… It’s where you you are twisting with your shoulders and then having to wait for that energy to transferred down to your board so it’s much slower and much less efficient.

To go toe side you driving your leading knee towards the center of the toe side turn and you should be feeling pressure on your big toe or the ball of your leading foot and then you’re adding the hip and the shoulder to the turn.

To go heel side, swing the leading the toward the nose and you should feel pressure on the little toe side of your leading foot. And again you add your hip and your shoulder into the rotation towards the heel side edge.

8.40-9.10
Talking about being stacked in the box, reminders to keep your back straight and your pelvis tilted/rotated/humping forward all this to keep your body in the cereal box...stacked and aligned. 

And then showing how many newbs ride stinky butt. It is when the butt is hanging over the heal side edge… They are bent at the waist… And their shoulders are hanging over the toe side edge....so they are counter balanced and fighting between shoulders over toeside and butt over heel side....this counter-balancing is un-stable.

So again, you want to be stacked over the midline your board and aligned or closed/parallel with the midline of your board. And again to work the board from the lower part of your body. And using your leading knee as your steering wheel.

9.10-9.30
Talking to forumite about her range of motion in her ankles issue which I know nothing about… But hopefully she will figure it out.

9.30-10.05
Talking about your foot actually being in your boots and bindings. So when going toe side you should feel pressure on your shin and that is driving into your ankle strap of your binding to leverage or put pressure on to the nose toe side contact point… thus engaging/initiating a toe side turn.

Likewise when going heel side, you swing your leading knee towards the nose which feel pressure on your calf… And thus the high-back of your binding. This leverages the nose heel side contact point/edge. 

***This is why you want some forward lean to your high-back so you can get more leverage to initiate a heal side turn. Also the forward lean forces you to bend your knees more.

10.05-end
Again talking about riding, being sunk in the knees, being stacked in the box... You will get the feel or find the balance. And when you find this balance you will feel a lot more stable. 

***Again, if you feel the board is squirrily or you are about to catch an edge… Shift your weight on the nose by moving your hips sideways towards the nose.

Good luck and have fun!
wrath


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## collectingpennies (Mar 31, 2015)

holy shit. Wrath, you ROCK!! That probably have took you a long time listening to the video and taking notes! So... thank you! You didn't have to go beyond to do this lengthy transcription of the video. But this really helps a lot. A lot of good useful information that I can use. I can't wait to get back on my snowboard and correct all mistakes on Friday! I'll keep everyone posted.


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## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

ekb18c said:


> Watch this video it demonstrates some of the techniques that everyone had mentioned and it has a close caption too.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jy5wEU-gLKc


Marjaruth

Watch the video that ekb put up and you can start to see that stacked and aligned position and how they move. The thing at being new to riding is that it difficult to recognize and see good movement, especially at a distance and while they are moving. That's why I made the vid of just showing the netural stance and basic moves...with the masking tape to highlight. Btw wasn't too much work...just watching and dictating into a document.

Have fun!


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## collectingpennies (Mar 31, 2015)

Thanks! I was discussing this with my friend last night... a lot of you guys say that I possibly would need to widen my stance. My stance is at 18" (i'm 5'1). The stance chart says I should have my stance at 17-18". Should I widen it a little bit to maybe 18.5-19 to see if there is any difference in my riding? Or leave it at 18"? I'll be going riding tomorrow for 3 days so will be also changing my binding angles to possibly +9, -9. I currently have it at +9, -6.


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## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

marjaruth said:


> Thanks! I was discussing this with my friend last night... a lot of you guys say that I possibly would need to widen my stance. My stance is at 18" (i'm 5'1). The stance chart says I should have my stance at 17-18". Should I widen it a little bit to maybe 18.5-19 to see if there is any difference in my riding? Or leave it at 18"? I'll be going riding tomorrow for 3 days so will be also changing my binding angles to possibly +9, -9. I currently have it at +9, -6.


just try different stances and angles...maybe change just a bit it up at lunch time and give it a try for 1/2 day...in 3 days you should be able to get it pretty much dialed in.

edit...for the time being...start the 3 days with your current set up...and focus on the technique to get that dialed in...then if you feel your stance is hindering some of the movement and it would work better...then adjust...and don't afraid to try something different... and if the adjustment doesn't...at least you know and you can try another adjustment. You will know when it feels right....and then make some more adjustments...and go back to the setting where it feels right.


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## Fielding (Feb 15, 2015)

You might need to widen your stance a little bit. That will allow you to bend your knees more as you ride. Bent knees allow your legs to be soft and responsive as you turn and ride over bumps. Just judging by the little bit of your vid that I watched I think your back binding needs to move back some. Make sure your binding angles allow for a good deep squat. If you feel your front foot pushing hard on the downhill side (instead of the bottom) of it's boot then that's another sign that your board is set up with too narrow a stance. Good board setup is essential. If youre set too narrow you'll ride like a mummy.


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## Jcb890 (Dec 12, 2014)

I'm basically just going to echo what wrath said (he's the man btw and that video is great!). Bend those knees and stay in the box. 

Some of it you can practice at the top of the hill. Just work on using your edges to slide down a little and stop. It will help you get used to using and trusting the edges. I am teaching my wife to ride and this is the hardest part for her I think. You need to use those edges and trust them, otherwise you'll look like you do in the video. I don't mean this to be making fun of your video or anything, just trying to help.

That looks like a great mountain for practicing and learning though. Nicely groomed snow, nice and wide trails and not too many people. I'm a bit jealous for my wife's sake.

Oh, and you are off to a good start by the way! It isn't perfect or great, as you know, but it it isn't horrible either.

You can try to widen your stance, but that may not necessarily be the answer. You can figure it out at home a little bit before going out. Put on your boots and strap into your bindings. Can you get into a good squatting position like shown in Wrath's video? If you can't, then perhaps you need to widen your stance. If you aren't using squatting and throwing your weight around to turn, you're doing to wind up off-balance and hurting your back. When it gets towards the end of the day and I get real tired, sometimes I will get into that habit. I can feel myself using my back a lot more and it doesn't feel very good. My balances is off and it leads to all sorts of small and stupid mistakes. This is usually when I know to call it a day because my body is too tired to ride properly.


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## collectingpennies (Mar 31, 2015)

I went snowboarding last weekend... three days of snowboarding bliss. The conditions were awful but I made the best of it. Friday was all wet and slushy. That really forced me to bend my knees and carve. I believe I have a video of me snowboarding on Friday but will have to get that uploaded. Saturday was all icy, windy and some slush. Not the best conditions to be confident. Yesterday was a perfect day to snowboard. I was able to be more confident in picking up my speed, carving while speeding and became comfortable carving on a black diamond (which I wasn't able to before). I think I have improved considerably compared to last week to this weekend. I didn't change my stance width but did change my bindings to +9, -9. Works out pretty good.


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## ekb18c (Mar 11, 2013)

That's great news. Post the video when you get chance, would love to see the improvement from last week.


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## collectingpennies (Mar 31, 2015)

I will post when I have the video ready I'm looking forward to see the comparison! :jumping1:


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## collectingpennies (Mar 31, 2015)

here is the video... This was taken on Friday early into the day... unfortunately I didn't get a video of me on Sunday to see a comparison. I really increased my confidence on Sunday and was able to keep my upper body in control and arms was down mostly while I carve. I wish I had a video of how hard I worked on correcting that issue!


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## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

looks like ur more comfortable, 

however you are rotating the shoulders open...close them by putting your rear hand in your pocket/grab your rear pant leg and use your leading hand to point...like reaching down and touch the center of the turn (like in my vid). 

Also now you are using your back foot to rudder around....which is a technique...but...it seems that you are not trusting the board...and thus using the rear leg/foot to rush/push the turn. So get on the nose .... shift your weight on to the nose to initiate the turns and trust the board. While also getting dynamic and squatting and driving the knees. Let the turns develope from the nose...trust the board and get going up and down.

ur doing great!


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## collectingpennies (Mar 31, 2015)

I worked hard on closing in my shoulders over the weekend and I think I pretty much understood it but have to remember to do it. I did try to get on the nose and shifted my weight on there but it just felt weird. I don't know... I'd have to form a new habit of getting all weight on the nose than on the rear. Sometimes I feel like I would catch an edge so that's why my arms go open. Not too sure if it's my board that is really stable or that I'm not trusting it enough.


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## kingoffrog (Feb 1, 2015)

I would really recommend you to go to a easy run (you will feel safer) and try the things in wrath's video. It is better to correct all bad habits in the beginning.

You are doing great btw.


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## stillz (Jan 5, 2010)

General suggestions: Wrath already talked about alignment. The reason alignment is important is because it minimizes static tension (which can slow down your response time), and maximizes your movement options. It's a balanced, neutral, adaptable position -- but don't get stiff! Remember to breathe while riding, and complete your turns. If you control your speed with turn shape, you won't have to rely on speed checks and excessive skidding.



marjaruth said:


> I worked hard on closing in my shoulders over the weekend and I think I pretty much understood it but have to remember to do it.


A lot of times, the shoulders open because the rider wants to look down the hill. This is natural, but will make it harder to finish your toeside turns. Our necks just don't twist that far. Go ahead and look toward the side of the trail, or maybe even glance up the hill, as you finish your toeside turns.



marjaruth said:


> I did try to get on the nose and shifted my weight on there but it just felt weird. I don't know... I'd have to form a new habit of getting all weight on the nose than on the rear.


You don't want ALL your weight on the nose. You'll never hold a carve that way. More weight on the nose is great for initiating turns quickly. There are also good reasons to get more weight on the tail, but almost all newer riders are tail-heavy to begin with. Take a more aggressive posture and *drive* your board, don't just stand on it.



marjaruth said:


> Sometimes I feel like I would catch an edge so that's why my arms go open. Not too sure if it's my board that is really stable or that I'm not trusting it enough.


It's technique. If you're truly carving, it's physically impossible to catch your edge, since your edges are oriented parallel to your direction of travel.


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## slyder (Jan 18, 2010)

stillz said:


> If you're truly carving, it's physically impossible to catch your edge, since your edges are oriented parallel to your direction of travel.


It's impossible since only one edge is engaged with the snow. The other edge is in the air not making contact with the ground. Only during the transition are bot edges close to the ground. 

My only constructive comment, stay positive and give it time. Time on the snow is the only way to get better. Feeling, studying and doing will make you a better rider. Your doing way better than me my 1st season


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## chomps1211 (Mar 30, 2011)

marjaruth said:


> I worked hard on closing in my shoulders over the weekend and I think I pretty much understood it but have to remember to do it. I did try to get on the nose and shifted my weight…
> 
> ….Sometimes I feel like I would catch an edge so that's why my arms go open. Not too sure if it's my board that is really stable or that I'm not trusting it enough.


marjaruth,.. You have to remember that this is still all very new to you! When you did this last, back some ten years ago,..? Unless you were riding often enough back then to have been proficient? You are for all intents and purposes, a raw newb! 

It will take some time for any of this to begin to feel,.. _right_ to you! You will need to do a fair bit of riding before it begins to feel natural,.. before it becomes set in your neural & muscle memory!! You are not going to feel completely confident or comfortable with your skills right away! Things do apparently click earlier for some people, and for others it can take a bit longer before it really "gels!"

Regardless,.. if you persist and don't give up? If you get out to ride every chance you can and practice the techniques you are learning here often enough? I assure you, eventually It _will_ click! 

You gain nothing right now by comparing your riding or progress to other riders! As you touched on in your recent post,..? The best yardstick to measure by is, do you feel like you've progressed since your last time out! From reading your posts? It sounds like you have! 

You're doing great! Keep at it, keep asking questions! 
:hairy:


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## collectingpennies (Mar 31, 2015)

kingoffrog said:


> I would really recommend you to go to a easy run (you will feel safer) and try the things in wrath's video. It is better to correct all bad habits in the beginning.
> 
> You are doing great btw.


The green runs last weekend were actually the runs I HATED the most. One green run I went on, it goes downhill then it goes to a really flat terrain that you can't keep on going unless you really charge down the mountain to get across the flat section. But that flat section was good for learning butters. Other green runs were either closed or that I didn't feel like I was even having a good time on the green. So that's why I did blues all day long. A couple blacks but did like one black.



stillz said:


> General suggestions: Wrath already talked about alignment. The reason alignment is important is because it minimizes static tension (which can slow down your response time), and maximizes your movement options. It's a balanced, neutral, adaptable position -- but don't get stiff! Remember to breathe while riding, and complete your turns. If you control your speed with turn shape, you won't have to rely on speed checks and excessive skidding.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


So if I go really fast and carve while staying on edges, I won't catch an edge and fall? That was my biggest fear if I charge down while carving, I would catch an edge and fall. 



slyder said:


> It's impossible since only one edge is engaged with the snow. The other edge is in the air not making contact with the ground. Only during the transition are bot edges close to the ground.
> 
> My only constructive comment, stay positive and give it time. Time on the snow is the only way to get better. Feeling, studying and doing will make you a better rider. Your doing way better than me my 1st season


I agree, I studied other snowboarders and actually mimicked my friend's movement while I snowboarded behind him. I got into a rhythm that felt natural. But that doesn't last because usually they zoom down fast that I can't keep up the speed. 



chomps1211 said:


> marjaruth,.. You have to remember that this is still all very new to you! When you did this last, back some ten years ago,..? Unless you were riding often enough back then to have been proficient? You are for all intents and purposes, a raw newb!
> 
> It will take some time for any of this to begin to feel,.. _right_ to you! You will need to do a fair bit of riding before it begins to feel natural,.. before it becomes set in your neural & muscle memory!! You are not going to feel completely confident or comfortable with your skills right away! Things do apparently click earlier for some people, and for others it can take a bit longer before it really "gels!"
> 
> ...


I started to dabble in snowboarding when I was 14 but mostly skied at the time. I wasn't even proficient at snowboarding. My brother was much, much better snowboarder than I even was while I was a much better skier than he was. I grew up in Minnesota and their ski hills are pathetic compared to here in the east coast. I relocated to the east coast for college 10 years ago and stopped ever since. So this year has been my learning curve year where I had to learn how to snowboard down mountain much bigger my ski hills back in MN. But I do feel at this point, I am starting to really understand the basics of staying on the edges but have to remember to relax while being on edges. I'm trying to shoot for a day trip to Vermont this Saturday so hopefully that pans out then I can have one final run before my season's done! :happy:


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## slyder (Jan 18, 2010)

*use the real estate*

Not sure if this is a tip or just an observation. 
Go back and look at your videos, not for form but your use of real estate. Meaning you are making lots of very shallow turn, with your board always point down hill and gaining speed. Hence you get uncomfortable with the speed so you scrub some speed off by rudder steering or skidding an edge and get fearful of catching an edge. 

Maybe try riding in huge "S" turns all the way across the hill from edge to edge of the run. This will put you on your edge for longer periods of time, it will help to control your speed as you board is pointing across the fall line and not running down hill continuing to gain speed. 

You will have good moderate/slow speed for that transition from heel/toe to toe/heel depending which edge you started on.
This really helped me when I started learning to ride switch. Which in many aspects is to teach yourself all over again, so-to-say...

Hope this made sense and helps


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## Sons of Thunder (Mar 24, 2015)

Fellow noob here but I would say to exaggerate your movements (bending knees, shifting weight forward) a lot more. What we think of as exaggerating actually ends up being a normal movement, and what we think of as normal ends up being too little. I guess it's because we're not comfortable being strapped to a piece of wood/fiberglass that is falling down a slope of snow/ice!

I'm guilty of the same but I can tell you're not bending your knees enough and are steering with your back leg. If you can make it to VT I would work on that. Bend your knees more than would seem necessary. Shift weight onto your front foot like you need to press a button under your front binding. What might feel unnatural and overboard might actually end up being what you need.

I'm also trying to make it up to VT to practice one last time before the season ends..we're sort of in the same boat lol.


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## collectingpennies (Mar 31, 2015)

slyder said:


> Not sure if this is a tip or just an observation.
> Go back and look at your videos, not for form but your use of real estate. Meaning you are making lots of very shallow turn, with your board always point down hill and gaining speed. Hence you get uncomfortable with the speed so you scrub some speed off by rudder steering or skidding an edge and get fearful of catching an edge.
> 
> Maybe try riding in huge "S" turns all the way across the hill from edge to edge of the run. This will put you on your edge for longer periods of time, it will help to control your speed as you board is pointing across the fall line and not running down hill continuing to gain speed.
> ...


I do need to work on doing bigger S turns down the mountain. I think partially is because I am more nervous on the toe side than being on my heel side.


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## collectingpennies (Mar 31, 2015)

Sons of Thunder said:


> Fellow noob here but I would say to exaggerate your movements (bending knees, shifting weight forward) a lot more. What we think of as exaggerating actually ends up being a normal movement, and what we think of as normal ends up being too little. I guess it's because we're not comfortable being strapped to a piece of wood/fiberglass that is falling down a slope of snow/ice!
> 
> I'm guilty of the same but I can tell you're not bending your knees enough and are steering with your back leg. If you can make it to VT I would work on that. Bend your knees more than would seem necessary. Shift weight onto your front foot like you need to press a button under your front binding. What might feel unnatural and overboard might actually end up being what you need.
> 
> I'm also trying to make it up to VT to practice one last time before the season ends..we're sort of in the same boat lol.


I'll be going up to Stratton mountain in Vermont this Saturday... I'm driving 5 hours to get there, and snowboard. Drive back 5 hours. Let's say I am determined to close my season on a good note.


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## Sons of Thunder (Mar 24, 2015)

marjaruth said:


> I'll be going up to Stratton mountain in Vermont this Saturday... I'm driving 5 hours to get there, and snowboard. Drive back 5 hours. Let's say I am determined to close my season on a good note.


Haha wow we definitely are in the same boat. I'm driving up the second to last week of April, leaving late Sunday afternoon to get there nice and early Monday morning! Like you I've become obsessed with getting better haha. Why did we have to discover this so late in the season?


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## collectingpennies (Mar 31, 2015)

Sons of Thunder said:


> Haha wow we definitely are in the same boat. I'm driving up the second to last week of April, leaving late Sunday afternoon to get there nice and early Monday morning! Like you I've become obsessed with getting better haha. Why did we have to discover this so late in the season?


Which resort are you going to in Vermont? I hear Stowe has a lot of snow but way too far for me to drive for just a day trip. 

I have been snowboarding since January actually but just recently gotten way better a couple of weeks ago.


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## stillz (Jan 5, 2010)

marjaruth said:


> So if I go really fast and carve while staying on edges, I won't catch an edge and fall? That was my biggest fear if I charge down while carving, I would catch an edge and fall.


Whoa, sounds like I need to clarify. I didn't say to bomb down hills thinking you can't possibly catch your edge and fall. Fear can make you fall. Going too fast can make fear. Edge catches happen when you change edges while skidding. Think about it. If your board is travelling in precisely the direction it's pointed, you can change edges freely. Also, you don't need to go really fast or get a high edge angle to carve. All a carve is is a turn without skidding. You can practice these on wide greens. Like slyder said, use the real estate. Straight line (flat base parallel to the fall line) to a comfortable speed, then start tilting the board gently and gradually. Remember to breathe. Visualize the board's sidecut pressing into the snow, and follow its arc across the hill, even back up the hill until you slow down. Your board should track quietly and leave a narrow, clean line in the snow. Repeat this for the other edge. After a few repetitions, you might feel comfortable linking them without stopping in between. This is controlling your speed with only turn shape, AKA, carving. It will make you a silent snow-ninja.



marjaruth said:


> I agree, I studied other snowboarders and actually mimicked my friend's movement while I snowboarded behind him. I got into a rhythm that felt natural. But that doesn't last because usually they zoom down fast that I can't keep up the speed.


Snowboarding behind a more advanced rider is a great way to learn the movements. Take that natural rhythm you felt and slow it down a little. Keep it at speeds you like to go. Stretch out the movements to fit the turns YOU want to make. Don't worry about keeping up. Keep making good, round, controlled turns, big or small. Again, feel free to use the real estate. Speed will naturally come as you refine your skills. You're off to a great start. Keep practicing, keep getting more relaxed on your board, and you'll progress nicely. No need to rush.

Good luck, and keep asking questions if anything else isn't 100% clear.


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## slyder (Jan 18, 2010)

stillz said:


> After a few repetitions, you might feel comfortable linking them without stopping in between. This is controlling your speed with only turn shape, AKA, carving. *It will make you a silent snow-ninja*.


1: snow-ninja I like that...


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## Sons of Thunder (Mar 24, 2015)

marjaruth said:


> Which resort are you going to in Vermont? I hear Stowe has a lot of snow but way too far for me to drive for just a day trip.
> 
> I have been snowboarding since January actually but just recently gotten way better a couple of weeks ago.


Right now it's between Killington, Okemo, and Sugarbush but I think Killington might be the only left open weekdays that late into April. Stowe is definitely closing before then.

Where are you going from? Stowe isn't all that much farther than K'ton but then again if you're driving round-trip in one day I would want to shorten the drive too lol. I'm gonna be staying overnight.


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## collectingpennies (Mar 31, 2015)

stillz said:


> Whoa, sounds like I need to clarify. I didn't say to bomb down hills thinking you can't possibly catch your edge and fall. Fear can make you fall. Going too fast can make fear. Edge catches happen when you change edges while skidding. Think about it. If your board is travelling in precisely the direction it's pointed, you can change edges freely. Also, you don't need to go really fast or get a high edge angle to carve. All a carve is is a turn without skidding. You can practice these on wide greens. Like slyder said, use the real estate. Straight line (flat base parallel to the fall line) to a comfortable speed, then start tilting the board gently and gradually. Remember to breathe. Visualize the board's sidecut pressing into the snow, and follow its arc across the hill, even back up the hill until you slow down. Your board should track quietly and leave a narrow, clean line in the snow. Repeat this for the other edge. After a few repetitions, you might feel comfortable linking them without stopping in between. This is controlling your speed with only turn shape, AKA, carving. It will make you a silent snow-ninja.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


thanks for the tips. I appreciate it.


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## collectingpennies (Mar 31, 2015)

Sons of Thunder said:


> Right now it's between Killington, Okemo, and Sugarbush but I think Killington might be the only left open weekdays that late into April. Stowe is definitely closing before then.
> 
> Where are you going from? Stowe isn't all that much farther than K'ton but then again if you're driving round-trip in one day I would want to shorten the drive too lol. I'm gonna be staying overnight.


I went to Okemo the last weekend of February. Very good intermediate mountain if you want to progress your skills. I hear Killington is a difficult mountain but that is what I hear from a black/double black skier and snowboarder's perspective. 

I'm coming from Rochester, NY- 5 hours drive to Stratton. 7 hours to Stowe. Not worth the extra 2 hours for a day. Probably would if I went for a weekend trip. Maybe next year.


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## jxs1984 (Jan 20, 2015)

I taught you well... my apprentice.


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## collectingpennies (Mar 31, 2015)

I went snowboarding recently and had a friend take a video of me to see the comparison of this year and last year's riding. I feel that I may need more criticism other than the right hand needs to stay down at times. However, I think overall, I have improved a lot in comparison to last year. My confidence is a lot better this year, I'm feeling a lot more relaxed as I ride and I have made the effort to bend my knees a lot more. Last year's issues were confidence on going on toeside and gaining speed. This year, I have felt no fear on going toeside and gaining some speed. So any criticism is welcome. I want to improve my riding abilities as much as I can. (This video may not be the best video to criticize because at times you can't even see me.)


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## XxGoGirlxX (Jan 15, 2016)

collectingpennies said:


> I went snowboarding recently and had a friend take a video of me to see the comparison of this year and last year's riding. I feel that I may need more criticism other than the right hand needs to stay down at times. However, I think overall, I have improved a lot in comparison to last year. My confidence is a lot better this year, I'm feeling a lot more relaxed as I ride and I have made the effort to bend my knees a lot more. Last year's issues were confidence on going on toeside and gaining speed. This year, I have felt no fear on going toeside and gaining some speed. So any criticism is welcome. I want to improve my riding abilities as much as I can. (This video may not be the best video to criticize because at times you can't even see me.)


Hi Marja, I'm GG, wow what an improvement! Awesome, nice hand drags near the end, and at the beginning I could tell you have your weight more forward, have way more control and are having fun- not riding afraid of falling. Keep it up and thanks for the whole thread I enjoyed learning from it too


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## WasabiCanuck (Apr 29, 2015)

You look great!! You are much more relaxed, confident, and comfortable. Just keep riding.

PS: I love the pink pants!! I keep telling my wife to get a pair. :grin:


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## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

Nice pink pants. There should be a pink pantz club!

You are riding with your shoulders open and bending too much at the waist and leaning into your toeside turns.

Instead of bending at the waist, sink more in your knees...really get going up and down...sinking in the knees/bending the knees and then rising/pushing up...i.e., get dynamic....you want to squat (not bend over).

Part of this, has to do that hip thing...in my spandex vid. For toeside you want to thrust/hump your pelvis. Its the pelvic tilt upward and forward thing. (Squeeze your butt cheeks and tighten your abs.) AND you want to rotate your leading hip into the turn...instead of bending at the waist.

Get your shoulders parallel with the board. Try this drill to become aware of the effects of your shoulders/arms.
1 Find a nice green/easy blue run that you are comfortable cruising. 
2 Don't go fast but at a relaxed speed. 
3 Go straight and stand up tall in the box.
4 Then merely swing your arms (in opposite directions forward/back like when you are walking)
5 Notice how just merely swinging your arms (the only body parts moving) are effecting your board.
6 Now swing your arms more and notice where your arms/shoulders are and how it effects the board.

So in your recent vid...when you go toeside your rear shoulder is also rotated open to the toeside edge...WRONG...you actually want your rear shoulder to be over the heelside edge and your leading shoulder to be rotated closed and to be over the toeside edge. AND opposite shoulder/arm swing for making a heelside turn. 

This way your upper body will be coordinated with the direction of the turn...instead of fight or being counter to the turn. Thus much more efficient.

So you got to get the lower part of your body to be more dynamic...sinking/bending in the knees and the pelvic thing.

And the upper body coordinated with the turn...shoulders/arms...
the result is that you wont need to lean into/bend at the waist to try to make your toeside turns. Infact you will feel more balanced because your body will be in the box, it will be stacked over your board and be aligned with the direction of travel/turn.

So you got upper body movements...shoulders/arms
You got mid body movements... hip rotation and pelvic tilt/thrust
And lower body movements...leading knee (primarily) and ankle and feet

First becoming aware of this as isolated movements with specific body parts.

Then putting it all together as being a full body coordinated movement. Thus stacked, aligned and dynamic all going in a fluid movement with the desired direction of travel 

And then later in a compact package with all body parts in the box with the ability to move specific body parts to potentiate what you want to do.

Keep at it...you are doing fine...just trying to be helpful and not critical. Its all a progression and learning. But remember to HAVE FUN!


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## stillz (Jan 5, 2010)

Good improvement since last year, and wrath nailed everything I was going to say and then some. Basically hips more forward on toe side with the spine stacked on top. I just did a long post about getting dynamic, so this one can stay short. Happy riding!


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## collectingpennies (Mar 31, 2015)

XxGoGirlxX said:


> Hi Marja, I'm GG, wow what an improvement! Awesome, nice hand drags near the end, and at the beginning I could tell you have your weight more forward, have way more control and are having fun- not riding afraid of falling. Keep it up and thanks for the whole thread I enjoyed learning from it too


Thank you!! Hand drags were something I couldn't do last year. I was pretty excited that this season I was able to dabble into it. 



WasabiCanuck said:


> You look great!! You are much more relaxed, confident, and comfortable. Just keep riding.
> 
> PS: I love the pink pants!! I keep telling my wife to get a pair. :grin:


Thanks!  The pink pants actually are in youth girls size! Lol. I'm 5'0" so I was lucky to be able to fit in youth sizes. 



wrathfuldeity said:


> Nice pink pants. There should be a pink pantz club!
> 
> You are riding with your shoulders open and bending too much at the waist and leaning into your toeside turns.
> 
> ...


Thank you! All things you've said helped put things into perspective! I knew I probably was doing something wrong but couldn't pin point it. I actually felt that I was drifting a little bit and not getting on the edges enough. 



stillz said:


> Good improvement since last year, and wrath nailed everything I was going to say and then some. Basically hips more forward on toe side with the spine stacked on top. I just did a long post about getting dynamic, so this one can stay short. Happy riding!


I'll look for your post about getting dynamic but all criticism I am able to receive, I look forward to make the improvements. Possibly will have a video uploaded next week as I have plans to go snowboarding on Sunday with a fellow SF member.


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