# Switch help



## Phedder (Sep 13, 2014)

WasabiCanuck said:


> I know I'm not comfortable going fast yet switch. Any tips on how I can get more comfortable besides just do it more?


Do it a lot more. Depending on how often you get on the slopes, dedicate an entire day or half a day to riding switch. Strap in switch. Ride the lift switch. You'll get into situations where you really want to quickly whip back around to regular to get through, *don't.* 



WasabiCanuck said:


> Will switch always feel "backwards" or is there a point when it starts to feel almost as natural as normal stance?


To me it always feels a little off, and I'd say I'm very confident switch. I can happily carve open blues at speed, and make my way down moguled blacks without looking too janky. To me it feels off when a fast, split second reaction needs to be made, then things feel unnatural. If I can plan my turns and my line, switch feels the same. If something surprises me, another rider out of nowhere, a bump I wasn't expecting to hit, an unexpected patch of ice etc, my ability to react and adapt to that is definitely much worse riding switch. It's always getting slightly better the more I ride those situations switch, but doubt it'll ever actually match my regular riding.


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## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

I'm not any good at switch and can do it on blues and greens..but don't care...but should focus on it for a few days...but ehh. Anyways, a thing to keep from going perpendicular is to focus on keeping your leading/switch shoulder within 45 degrees of the fall line...and point your turns like alluded to in the creepy basement vid.


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## dfitz364 (Jan 10, 2014)

when I started learning to really ride switch, I found myself in the backseat waaaay too much. Started focusing on staying towards the nose a bit more, and things felt a little more comfortable. Could be a bit of why you are getting perpindicular to the fall line too often?

In my experience, switch has always been something that feels a bit ass backwards, but I am no pro.


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## Justin (Jun 2, 2010)

Sounds like your timing is off. You need to shift your shoulders down hill sooner and switch edges sooner so you don't keep coming up hill. Its like being a beginner again so really think about when you switch edges riding regular.


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## SnowDragon (Apr 23, 2012)

WasabiCanuck said:


> I'm feeling really comfortable going fast/carving in all conditions except maybe double black diamond while riding normal stance, but when I try switch I'm very slow. I can kinda carve switch but I go slow and only make very tight carves. I always end up perpendicular to the fall line and almost stopped before I start my next turn. When I turn normal stance everything feels fluid and make nice long carves. I don't remember ever going through this phase when I was first learning.
> 
> I know I'm not comfortable going fast yet switch. Any tips on how I can get more comfortable besides just do it more?
> 
> Will switch always feel "backwards" or is there a point when it starts to feel almost as natural as normal stance?





dfitz364 said:


> when I started learning to really ride switch, I found myself in the backseat waaaay too much. Started focusing on staying towards the nose a bit more, and things felt a little more comfortable. Could be a bit of why you are getting perpindicular to the fall line too often?
> 
> In my experience, switch has always been something that feels a bit ass backwards, but I am no pro.


You guys have lost me on one point here.
Don't we always want to be riding perpendicular to the fall line?
If we aren't doing that, we are riding in the back seat.

Maybe more correctly, we want to be riding perpendicular to the slope.
Have I missed something here?


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## comfortstarr (Feb 9, 2016)

dfitz364 said:


> when I started learning to really ride switch, I found myself in the backseat waaaay too much. Started focusing on staying towards the nose a bit more, and things felt a little more comfortable. Could be a bit of why you are getting perpindicular to the fall line too often?
> 
> In my experience, switch has always been something that feels a bit ass backwards, but I am no pro.


Yesterday I made a mildly concerted effort to begin learning switch (how about that for equivocation?). It is EXACTLY like learning all over again. I lean back too much, the heel-side turn is easier than the toe-side turn, etc.


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## dfitz364 (Jan 10, 2014)

SnowDragon said:


> You guys have lost me on one point here.
> Don't we always want to be riding perpendicular to the fall line?
> If we aren't doing that, we are riding in the back seat.
> 
> ...


I could be totally wrong, but I have always understood the fall line to be understood as the line something would travel down the slope if you just let gravity take over. That would mean riding perpendicular would be stopping. Ruddering back and forth would fall under the spending too much time perpindicular to the fall line. Typically as one gets more comfortable with speed, one can follow closer to the fall line. Wasabi seemed you be letting his turns wash, or hook too hard, on him so he kept ending up basically stopped. 

Alternatively, if you want to go faster, you would ride more parallel to the fall line. Fastest way down the mountain is straight down the fall line. I could totally be wrong, but I have always understood this to be the thought process for the "fall line."

Edit: I just reread your post. You are right, our body should be perpindicular to the fall line. Our board, in theory to be faster, should be parallel to the fall line. In Wasabi's post, I believe he was talking about his board getting perpendicular too much, i.e. skidding or stopping. Hope that clarifies a little better!


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## dfitz364 (Jan 10, 2014)

comfortstarr said:


> Yesterday I made a mildly concerted effort to begin learning switch (how about that for equivocation?). It is EXACTLY like learning all over again. I lean back too much, the heel-side turn is easier than the toe-side turn, etc.


Definitely a normal thing. Way I learned was riding with slower friends on basic runs and forcing myself over and over to learn. It is exactly like riding for the first time (or throwing a ball left handed if you've watched any x-games announcer >). None of the muscles are ready to make instinctive moves like the way we normally ride. It'll all come together, but just takes a concerted effort.


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## fullvermonty (Jan 6, 2018)

WasabiCanuck said:


> I know I'm not comfortable going fast yet switch. Any tips on how I can get more comfortable besides just do it more?


I don't think there's any fast cure. 

I've been forcing myself to ride half of all runs switch. It's still painfully slow and awkward, but I can with caution make it down a green or blue. It's not instinctive yet - I have to think out every turn before I do it - but at least I'm not face-planting any more. 

You're learning to ride all over again. Remember how brutal that learning curve was? Expect that again. And this time what you're doing is basically the same thing as making a leftie write with the right hand. Sooner or later it will happen, but it's probably always going to feel a little unnatural. 

What other people are saying about being in the back seat is true, at least it is for me. Try to keep your weight forward. Easier said than done, I know.


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## Mr.Zywall (Jan 5, 2017)

When I tried to learn riding switch, every moment of it was very uncomfortable. I would always instinctively revert back to regular any time something startling came up. It was actually pretty mentally challenging too, so I stopped trying.

But what got me into riding switch was when I got good enough to start doing spins off jumps/kickers. Any 180's or 540's spins will REQUIRE u to land and ride away switch. Once I land, I hold the switch as long as possible before reverting, and if there is a successive jump right after, I'll go off of that one switch too. I fell quite a few times trying to hold on to the switch, but hey, no pain no gain.

I know this is an unconventional way to learn switch, but it worked for me. Perhaps you don't need to go off jumps and do spins to learn them, but apply the same thing. FORCE yourself to ride switch in all uncomfortable situations, even if it means you eat it. You'll learn it fast if you step out of your comfort zone.


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## robotfood99 (Mar 19, 2016)

You need to grow your switch comfort level. Telling yourself to ride that entire hill or whole day switch is a big ask if you aren’t comfortable and having fun. 

Try starting every run switch, telling yourself to make at least x number of turns before coming back to regular. Start with small x goals (like 3) and increase as you get more comfortable. This way you aren’t going too fast and can easily bail out. Best of all you will still be having fun and accomplishing small goals every run.


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## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

Yes it is like starting all over again...but it isn't...cause you already know how to ride, move and do edges. So learning switch will be much faster. Just commit to doing it for at least 1-2 runs a day...maybe the first of the day to get warmed up. Go watch the darn creepy basement vid...stand stitch on your board in the basement and do the moves....just like when ur watching Richard Simmons...>


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## freshy (Nov 18, 2009)

robotfood99 said:


> You need to grow your switch comfort level. Telling yourself to ride that entire hill or whole day switch is a big ask if you aren’t comfortable and having fun.
> 
> Try starting every run switch, telling yourself to make at least x number of turns before coming back to regular. Start with small x goals (like 3) and increase as you get more comfortable. This way you aren’t going too fast and can easily bail out. Best of all you will still be having fun and accomplishing small goals every run.


Exactly what I was going to say, just start by linking a turn, then two, then three...You already know how you should be doing it so concentrate more on your technique than just survival riding backwards.

It's all just practice for the most part. If you skate ride switch more if not buy a long board to keep it up all summer.


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## WasabiCanuck (Apr 29, 2015)

SnowDragon said:


> You guys have lost me on one point here.
> Don't we always want to be riding perpendicular to the fall line?
> If we aren't doing that, we are riding in the back seat.
> 
> ...


I meant my board is pointed totally to the side of run after my turn. And therefore I'm going very slowly or stopping.Turns aren't linked, just: turn then stop-turn then stop.



fullvermonty said:


> I don't think there's any fast cure.
> 
> I've been forcing myself to ride half of all runs switch. It's still painfully slow and awkward, but I can with caution make it down a green or blue. It's not instinctive yet - I have to think out every turn before I do it - but at least I'm not face-planting any more.
> 
> ...


Good tips thanks. I have lots of respect for guys that can do this well. I don't have willpower to totally commit to switch for a whole day or half-day. If I'm paying $100 to ride in Lake Louise, I want to have fun not suck ass for a day. I only get out to the mountains for max 5 days a year so don't want to waste it working on switch. I have more time at my shitty local hill (and it is much cheaper) just need to make an effort to work on it more. I'd be happy if I could comfortably carve blues and land smooth 180s at decent speed.

This mentally tough. I want to look cool not like some noob. I feel like I just started to look really smooth and comfortable but now I have to look like a dork again. :nerd:


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## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

Are your binding angles matched? If not do it to an old board. And really just shift the hips to weight the nose, use your switch front knee to steer and point your turns. Also relax and count your turns...ur likely too anxious and wanting to come around too fast. Get on the bunny hill and it will come togather fast. Oh and another thing to get you comfortable, go on a green or blue and just start doing ground spins down the run...spin to the right, then spin to the left...back and forth spin once or twice and then change the spin direction; this will get you used to working your edges in a very quick manner.


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## WasabiCanuck (Apr 29, 2015)

wrathfuldeity said:


> Are your binding angles matched? If not do it to an old board. And really just shift the hips to weight the nose, use your switch front knee to steer and point your turns. Also relax and count your turns...ur likely too anxious and wanting to come around too fast. Get on the bunny hill and it will come togather fast. Oh and another thing to get you comfortable, go on a green or blue and just start doing ground spins down the run...spin to the right, then spin to the left...back and forth spin once or twice and then change the spin direction; this will get you used to working your edges in a very quick manner.


Ya I'm duck 15/-15 with asym true twin NS Proto TT so no excuses. I can turn without wiping out most of the time, but I just feel super awkward and slow. My wife and kids are getting better so I need to ride switch faster to keep up but I'm having trouble doing that. There is just such a drastic difference in my riding from normal to switch. In regular stance, I can get to the bottom before they are strapped-in but switch they are starting to leave me behind. HAHA.

I do spins some times, they are good practice. I certainly could do them more and faster. I am anxious and I probably do come around too fast. Just need more practice I guess.


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## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

Idk...but does a asym board work that well for switch? You might have better luck with a standard twin.


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## bazman (Jan 15, 2017)

An asymmetric twin will ride the same when switch and normal


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## drblast (Feb 28, 2017)

I have a new theory on this, and I've been riding switch for a few years pretty well on twin boards with a duck stance. My problem is that when people turn in front of me or I'm about to fall I'll flip the board back over to regular really quick and avoid the bad situation. It looks cool as hell and you'd think I'm just doing a trick but the only reason I'm good at that because I'm not 100% confident riding switch during the "oh shit" moments.

I've done the "ride switch as much as you can all day" thing and that works. When I'm on a twin board I ride switch about 50% of the time, and more when I'm with my kids or someone new to the slopes. But I've always wanted to get to a point where I forget that I'm riding switch because it feels as natural as riding regular.

The answer? REALLY start over. And for me that means getting on a directional camber board, setting up a goofy +24,+6 binding angle, and making it as uncomfortable as possible to ride regular. Then charge down tracked out icy blue runs at night. I did this last week. I'll paint a picture for you how it looked from someone else's perspective:

"There's some big older guy on a brand new board with some T-Rice bindings who can't even get off the lift without faceplanting. Must be a lawyer or dentist or something. But then after he straps in he does a few 180's and charges down the run like nothing happened and he's a decent rider. But then when he get to the bottom he can't skate for shit."

After four hours, I was significantly more comfortable riding goofy and marginally better getting off the lift. While riding goofy, I *did* get to experience what it's like to be really good at riding switch, and it's awesome. 

My goal is to be good enough at riding lifts that I can ride goofy even when the resort is crowded without being a pain in the ass for other riders.

If you want to ride switch well, banish your ego and forget about having fun for a few days.


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## fullvermonty (Jan 6, 2018)

drblast said:


> If you want to ride switch well, banish your ego and forget about having fun for a few days.


QFTMFT

Just accept the fact that you're gonna look like a noob for a couple of days. It's humbling. But really, whom amongst us could not use a little humility? :grin::grin::grin:


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## speedjason (May 2, 2013)

I am gonna start spending all day just riding switch. I can do it with relative speeds but it's still awkward and I can never get the edge control I want to carve half decent.


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## Seppuccu (Dec 4, 2012)

fullvermonty said:


> It's humbling. But really, whom amongst us could not use a little humility? :grin::grin::grin:


Neni?

10char


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## WasabiCanuck (Apr 29, 2015)

I really tried to work on this on Saturday. I spent the whole afternoon riding switch. I went down a blue with no problem. I even rode a lift in switch, I hated that! It felt so weird to skate switch, not sure I will do it again. 

I'm definitely linking turns better and feeling more comfortable with a bit more speed. We had ideal conditions so that helped too. But it will be a while before I'm carving switch. Overall very happy with progression.


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## Seppuccu (Dec 4, 2012)

WasabiCanuck said:


> I even rode a lift in switch, I hated that! It felt so weird to skate switch, not sure I will do it again.


Do it again! It always feels awkward as fuck the first time but it gets better.


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## Gnarly (Mar 12, 2008)

drblast said:


> and marginally better getting off the lift....My goal is to be good enough at riding lifts that I can ride goofy even when the resort is crowded without being a pain in the ass for other riders.
> 
> If you want to ride switch well, banish your ego and forget about having fun for a few days.


Skating switch is one of the toughest things I've done on a snowboard. The lift operator on the bunny hill laughed at me for falling when skating switch and attempting to get on the lift. Felt like a complete noob attempting to skate switch for a few runs and gave up because I hated looking like someone who had never ridden a snowboard before. I can ride somewhat decently switch, but skating switch or getting on/off the lift switch is damn near impossible.


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