# Old school riding style? Weird outlier?



## baconzoo (Nov 12, 2010)

I still ride 30+ 15+ since the 1990's. I've tried duck when at an AASI training session.

My take is that you cannot get proper hip projection over your healside edge with duck. The turtle effect comes into play.

I agree that some young riders ride just as hard or fast duck, but I don't see them pencil lining turns. (for very long)


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## CassMT (Mar 14, 2013)

All I know is that my, +\+, a-frame stance, canted back foot, shoulders 3/4 to the nose position has brought me nothing but pleasure for 29 yrs, and I hope others can find that no matter how they do it

The terms OldSchool, and Outlier have no negative connotations for me...more like badge of honor


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## SJ10 (Mar 3, 2010)

Interesting thoughts... 

1. I'm an "old school" rider as well with 20+ seasons. I rode +/+ angles for a number of years but have gone to a duck stance over the last 8-10 years. I currently ride 21/-3 on my freeride boards and 18/-9 on anything all mountain or freestyle. I don't feel duck limits me much in carving but does add stability along with a wider stance and obviously allows for better switch riding. I still ride +/+ though for my freecarve board. 

So in short, If you're comfortable with +/+ then there really isn't a need to change. I'd try duck and see how you like it if you're interested in switch riding and a more freestyle approach. I disagree with your friend that you'll be starting over. You have a lot of experience and won't have any problem with the transition. 

Carving, or the lack there of, is the main thing I notice in new school, even decent riders. I'd say it's just less of a focus than stance as a limiting factor.


2. For board length and stiffness I've been all over the map, from 153 to 183. My traditional setup was 165 to 170 but I've found that the 158-163 range in a stiffer all mountain doesn't limit me much in most areas. I like the agility of a little bit shorter board with a decent effective edge. I still feel I get the best performance from camber but I'm probably in the minority. 

Flex and dampening can make up for some loss in length. Thats debatble in powder as slope and riding style matter more to me. That said I'd rather have a bit longer board with camber/taper than a shorter rocker board for the deeper days. 

My custom x was very stable at speed but it was a 164 so I think the 12-13cm difference (145-157) is very significant when it comes to your interpretation of stability.

Overall though I think you should ride what works best for you and not worry too much about what others are doing. I've tried all the rocker types and none works as welll for me as camber. The industry has focused on the skate rider for the last few years and that can make a traditional rider more of a outlier.


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## Clayton Bigsby (Oct 23, 2012)

CassMT said:


> All I know is that my, +\+, a-frame stance, canted back foot, shoulders 3/4 to the nose position has brought me nothing but pleasure for 29 yrs, and I hope others can find that no matter how they do it
> 
> The terms OldSchool, and Outlier have no negative connotations for me...more like badge of honor


"badge of honor" couldnt have said it better, I ride about +18 front and 0 back w/cant beds and crooked knees, watch some old videos of Craig Kelly, Craig along with some of the other locals at BAKER, got us all riding with cant beds and have ever since, carving groomers kicks ass (long live camber)


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## poutanen (Dec 22, 2011)

Neni, there's nothing wrong with what you're doing, as long as you're having fun and it's not hurting you!

1) I used to ride with a forward stance in the early 90's, and now I tend to ride symmetrical duck (-9/+9 or so) but that's what works for me (and yes, I do try to carve HARD lines with that setup). Some of the best riders in the world ride with forward stances, and still others use duck. No right or wrong.

2) I learned on a stiffer 153 length board, went to a 159, then a 160, and recently tried riding a 156 again and it felt sketchy. If you like it long, nothing wrong with that! :yahoo:


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## stan_darsh (Mar 10, 2013)

you guys might be interested to know that i've had this exact conversation in a bar about skateboarding styles... 










it really is only indicative of a preferred riding style. i came from street skateboarding, and love to ride switch... my favorite tricks are backside 180s and switch backside 180s, so i HAVE to ride a mirrored duck stance.

if you're into pencil line carves and hauling ass, it definitely makes sense to ride +/+!!!

i've ridden with some back country bombers who love to ride fast and lean deep, and while i may be able to keep up sometimes, i can't turn like they do. 

if it feels good, it's the right way to ride!


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## baconzoo (Nov 12, 2010)

but my argument is this:
skiers hit everything switch, all cocked with their feet pointing the wrong way.

I can ride switch with 30+ 15+ better than anyone I know. Mostly because I'm used to it and I understand upper and lower body separation. Being cocked, on switch tricks feels better to me, as does being able to drop my ass into a heal side turn.

Personal preference - yes, but it might just be worth giving it a try.


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## stan_darsh (Mar 10, 2013)

my argument is this... you feel good riding switch that way, i feel good riding -12/+12

not really an argument is there?


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## CassMT (Mar 14, 2013)

had my best switch season ever this year at +24/+12...there comes a moment where you don't feel like you are riding backward, just riding..so you are looking over your shoulder a few more degress, w/e

tried duck this season too, but after 2 runs, and it was such a great snow day i was like, fukkit, lol

from what i see there does seem to be much less emphasis now on carving by the young'uns..that is *so* ok, evolution of the sport and emphasis on new disciplies, like park and street are frikkn awesome. love watching street now, reminds of the stupid lil kickers and stuff we would build in the sideyard, ha, now at an amazing level...love seeing the onefooted stuff too, a huge madonna over a gap or hip will always be epic

added bonus...if everyone is down riding the park and the dino-chair, the rest of the mountain stays fluffy that much longer!

(nice pic Stan!)


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## stan_darsh (Mar 10, 2013)

anyone on here into multiple stances? i mean, i am not trying to be harsh, baconzoo- i just know that i have tried a few stance options, and a mirrored -12/+12 is beyond comfortable for me.

i'd not want to start from scratch, but would be willing to try a +/+ for a few days if someone can vouch for perhaps riding different stances for different boards/conditions?


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## CassMT (Mar 14, 2013)

wonder what stance DCP rides....


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## chomps1211 (Mar 30, 2011)

CassMT said:


> wonder what stance DCP rides....


Dont know who DCP is, but if he's riding _THAT_?!!
...I'd say anything that allows for dropping a *Load* in his drawers!!! :blink: :blink: :blink: :laugh: (..._I know that's what I'd need!_)


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## CassMT (Mar 14, 2013)

i can see from here that he's a +/+....lol

DCP is short for a very long french name...one of the top freeriders in the world






(sorry* neni* for the sidetrack! i'll stop)


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## baconzoo (Nov 12, 2010)

Terje Haakonsen and Jake Blauvelt are the only Pros I know of who still rock the + /+ angles


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## skip11 (Jan 28, 2010)

DCP rides +15 -6 if I remember correctly. Onboard mag did a rider profile of him and for sure he's riding duck.


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## Psi-Man (Aug 31, 2009)

older school rider here as well I guess...prefer 0 in the back, but I am perfectly comfortable riding +/+. I don't ride my older 168 Premier much anymore, but I have that setup +27/+12. I have tried duck, but it just does not work for me.


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## CassMT (Mar 14, 2013)

UltraNatural podium a few months ago, looks like Gigi is +/0, maybe +/+1..interesting


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## Psi-Man (Aug 31, 2009)

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I recall that Craig Kelly rode some serious +/+ angles as well. I always like his riding style.


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

SJ10 said:


> I'd try duck and see how you like it if you're interested in switch riding and a more freestyle approach. I disagree with your friend that you'll be starting over. You have a lot of experience and won't have any problem with the transition.


big grin here. I wished it would be that easy... but I'm not very talented and I'm not very patient neither 

exactly THIS vvv (after 1 run )!



CassMT said:


> tried duck this season too, but after 2 runs, and it was such a great snow day i was like, fukkit, lol


I'll give it another try next year, then for a full day and with the Farah. To learn switch is on my "to do" list. IF we get a cloudy day and IF there's nothing fresh to ride


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## poutanen (Dec 22, 2011)

Psi-Man said:


> Correct me if I'm wrong, but I recall that Craig Kelly rode some serious +/+ angles as well. I always like his riding style.


Terje Haakonsen rides with forward angles too, something like 10/30 or so.

That said, it doesn't matter. We're not the pros! I used to ride with forward angles, and now I'm duck and I'd like to think I can carve about as hard as anybody else in soft boots. (I could be sadly mistaken though?!? :dunno

If Neni likes forward stance then some guy in a shop shouldn't tell her she's riding wrong. That's the great thing about snowboarding, there's no wrong way to do it (unless you're heelsliding everything!)


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## poutanen (Dec 22, 2011)

neni said:


> I'll give it another try next year, then for a full day and with the Farah. To learn switch is on my "to do" list. IF we get a cloudy day and IF there's nothing fresh to ride


I don't suggest going from forward to duck in one adjustment. It'll feel weird. It took me years to move backwards to full duck.

Start by rotating BOTH bindings back 3 degrees. Ride for a day. Then rotate another 3, then ride a day. Repeat until your back foot is around -6 and your front at +15 or so. This is a pretty good all around stance, I think it's only worth going full symmetrical if there's a chance you'll be landing some jumps switch.

After you've spent a couple days at -6 +15, try going back to your old forward stance and see how it feels. If it feels better then stay forward, nothing wrong with it at all. I might try forward stance again next year just to quiet the carvers I chat with...


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## CassMT (Mar 14, 2013)

i know i just didn't give duck enough of a chance, my back knee felt twisted, surely because my upper body position was the 3/4 forward i am used too...i'll give it another shot next season, or set up another board like that for park and jibbin


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## SnowDragon (Apr 23, 2012)

poutanen said:


> I don't suggest going from forward to duck in one adjustment. It'll feel weird. It took me years to move backwards to full duck.
> 
> Start by rotating BOTH bindings back 3 degrees. Ride for a day. Then rotate another 3, then ride a day. Repeat until your back foot is around -6 and your front at +15 or so. This is a pretty good all around stance, I think it's only worth going full symmetrical if there's a chance you'll be landing some jumps switch.
> 
> After you've spent a couple days at *-6 +15*, try going back to your old forward stance and see how it feels. If it feels better then stay forward, nothing wrong with it at all. I might try forward stance again next year just to quiet the carvers I chat with...


Poutanen, I'm shocked that *YOU* would make such a notation mistake!
-6 +15?? That's pigeon toed, not duck!! I trust you meant +15 -6? (Front foot angle is always noted first.)

Signed, the notation police.:laugh:


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## poutanen (Dec 22, 2011)

GreyDragon said:


> Poutanen, I'm shocked that *YOU* would make such a notation mistake!
> -6 +15?? That's pigeon toed, not duck!! I trust you meant +15 -6? (Front foot angle is always noted first.)
> 
> Signed, the notation police.:laugh:


You're one of those regular stance riders aren't you?!? :laugh: I've always seen it as viewed from the rider. So reading left to right on your feet, writing left to right on the post.

-6 +15 is my left (back) foot at -6 deg, and my front at +15... 

I NEVER MAKE MISTAKES! I am sometimes mistaken!


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## baconzoo (Nov 12, 2010)

*sit on it*

>> more beef from Bacon.

Imagine where your center of mass is on the inside of your heelside turn. The farther forward you can project that mass, the more effective edge you will be able to use.

I try to project my hip over the front foot. This works in conjunction with with lifting my toes or rocking the board up on edge. But to hold the board on edge across the fall-line my weight needs to stay on top of or over that front foot. Any time your weight shifts toward the tail, you lose effective edge and that is where the turn stops or the skid starts. So hip projection is everything (to me) in a heelside carve. So stance is everything in aiding me to achieve that form.

NOTE: I'm aware of different teaching styles. ^^ this is what works for me.


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

poutanen said:


> I don't suggest going from forward to duck in one adjustment. It'll feel weird. It took me years to move backwards to full duck.
> 
> Start by rotating BOTH bindings back 3 degrees. Ride for a day. Then rotate another 3, then ride a day. Repeat until your back foot is around -6 and your front at +15 or so.


That's exactly what I tried over the last season. Yes, I can ride fine with my forward stances, but only forward. Really want to learn switch cause sometimes backcountry it would be an advantage to change direction to avoid long traverses on backside edge.
Brought me from +30/+15 slowly down to +18/0 where everything still was fine. Actually I don't care if hind leg is 0 or +6. (Haha, you still can crook the hind knee at 0 ) But the -6 made me feel completely blocked and I gave up. Maybe it wouldn't have been as bad with -3. But my guess is that already with -3 you really have to learn to center the body/hip differently and can't "cheat" anymore


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## SnowDragon (Apr 23, 2012)

poutanen said:


> You're one of those regular stance riders aren't you?!? :laugh: I've always seen it as viewed from the rider. So reading left to right on your feet, writing left to right on the post.
> 
> -6 +15 is my left (back) foot at -6 deg, and my front at +15...
> 
> I NEVER MAKE MISTAKES! I am sometimes mistaken!


:laugh:I was quite sure you ride goofy, but this came up in another thread, and the general agreement was notation is: front foot angle followed by back foot angle, regardless of whether you ride regular or goofy.

Even Snowolf (wherever he is) agreed with this!:thumbsup:

My feeble mind can't make the adjustment to "goofy" notation I guess.:blink:


(Sorry Neni for digressing.)


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

CassMT said:


> (sorry* neni* for the sidetrack! i'll stop)





GreyDragon said:


> (Sorry Neni for digressing.)


Haha... this obviously is the "advanced in age" men's thread  you all are so _polite_! 

I enjoy to read all the answers in this thread a lot. Thanks for all the insights.


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## CassMT (Mar 14, 2013)

is _any_ negative backfoot number condidered 'duck'?...when i see all these guys riding +/-1 or -2 it seems they are splitting the difference between the benefits if forward and duck...i think of duck as _really back there_, like -9..-12 or whatever, just wondering


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## KIRKRIDER (Mar 18, 2008)

CassMT said:


> All I know is that my, +\+, a-frame stance, canted back foot, shoulders 3/4 to the nose position has brought me nothing but pleasure for 29 yrs, and I hope others can find that no matter how they do it
> 
> The terms OldSchool, and Outlier have no negative connotations for me...more like badge of honor


Same board, same feeling...


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## poutanen (Dec 22, 2011)

CassMT said:


> is _any_ negative backfoot number condidered 'duck'?...when i see all these guys riding +/-1 or -2 it seems they are splitting the difference between the benefits if forward and duck...i think of duck as _really back there_, like -9..-12 or whatever, just wondering


I don't know about anybody else, but I consider any negative number to be duck. Symmetrical duck would be 9/9 or 12/12 or similar (not going to use plus minus anymore cause Mr.GreyDragon's going to yell at me! :laugh.

Seems very few people have a 0 deg back foot anymore. It's either -3 or greater, or +10 or greater from what I've seen. Back in MY DAY we all started with 0 deg back foot and around 20-25 degree front. I'm so glad those days are gone.

Anyway (unrelated rant forthcoming), I can still get weight over the front of the board with duck, just my shoulders have to stay at 45 deg or less to the board edge:









And here's my accident prone GF getting those knees towards the snow in a duck stance:


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

What about the "steering leg" topic? Ehm... this will be very hard to describe form me... 
when in steeps I sometimes dont do "proper" turns but rather point the front leg/nose down, front bent and leg rather static, hip/weight over the front leg, and the back leg is changing edges by lifting the tail. This works for fast tight turns. Well, actually not real turns, more like a series of half turns, cause the nose/front leg will always point more or less down, only the tail/hind leg does the major movements. 
Also use this on chewed up groomers to stay in the straight narrow corridor where the skiers ride and where's not that much crud as left and right. You can go rather straight without gaining too much speed. Sounds stupid... I'm very bad in describing a movement process, even in my mother tongue. I hope you get what I mean... Each edge has only very short (a second or two?) contact. Is that still possible with duck? Haven't seen any duck rider using this "technique".


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## CassMT (Mar 14, 2013)

where is that steep riding tut vid i saw on here somewhere, anyone?...

you might want to change up that technique some neni (or not! ) ..i do what you said sometimes in the bumps, plunging the nose in the toughs, otherwise, i steer with the upper body, whatever works for you though!

poutanen, in that pic you have just the posture i tried, felt like i'd tear my back acl just standing there, LOL...looks like it works for you though , cool


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## chomps1211 (Mar 30, 2011)

neni said:


> What about the "steering leg" topic?
> 
> ... rather point the front leg/nose down, front bent and leg rather static, hip/weight over the front leg, and the back leg is changing edges by lifting the tail. This works for fast tight turns. Well, actually not real turns, more like a series of half turns, cause the nose/front leg will always point more or less down, only the tail/hind leg does the major movements.
> 
> ...I hope you get what I mean... Each edge has only very short (a second or two?) contact. Is that still possible with duck? Haven't seen any duck rider using this "technique".



I'm sure someone will correct me if Im mistaken, but From what I remember watching and reading, I thought that _WAS_ the recommended technique for handling the "Steeps!"

Unweight the rear foot, swivel board n turn, unweight, swivel n turn, etc. etc. wash rinse repeate! Keeps the speed down n board under your control. At least for hardpack n groomer steeps anyway. (...might b different in steeps with deep POW!)

Thats how I do it if it's too steep n freaky for me to just point the nose n Bomb it! I ride a +18 / -12 ducked stance.

I started two years ago with a +21/-9 after trying 15/15 for a run or two. Definitely didn't like those angles! 21/9 worked for a while but seemed to give me some knee pain in rear leg. (...I also started with a very narrow 19.75" stance on a 163cm board!)


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## poutanen (Dec 22, 2011)

CassMT said:


> poutanen, in that pic you have just the posture i tried, felt like i'd tear my back acl just standing there, LOL...looks like it works for you though , cool


For what it's worth, I ride with a more narrow angle 9 deg front and back so it's pretty relaxed. When I look at pics of me on my toeside I don't know how my knee doesn't blow apart!?! :dizzy:


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## mixie (Mar 29, 2011)

neni said:


> – Me: Is my forward riding wrong? Should I change to duck? – He: You would almost have to learn from scratch and get across a deep performance valley. There’s no wrong or right, it’s just different for different purposes.
> ?


Well, only speaking for myself but I also learned to ride with a forward stance and like you, it was due to who I was riding with. 

When I uh...kicked his ass to the curb...I switched to duck...and I think it took me maybe three runs to adjust.... and a half day to feel solid. 

sometimes...on powder days I will revert back to a set back forward stance. 

on springy days when Im cruising groomers I'll go to a centered duck stance..

I don't really find it to be a problem, I think Im some weird outlier too, esp when I read these forums :dunno:


but to say it would be like learning to ride all over again? sorry, I think that's kind bs.


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## Lamps (Sep 3, 2011)

mixie said:


> Well, only speaking for myself but I also learned to ride with a forward stance and like you, it was due to who I was riding with.
> 
> When I uh...kicked his ass to the curb...I switched to duck...and I think it took me maybe three runs to adjust.... and a half day to feel solid.
> 
> ...


I think lots of people have the experience described above. I moved to duck to make switch easier.


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## [email protected] (Feb 25, 2013)

neni said:


> When I mentioned my angles, he smiled and said: I bet, you’d call your front leg the “force” leg and hind leg the “steering” leg? Hind knee crooked while on the front side edge? - Yup, very true. Looking at pics of me riding, you see the prominent forward crooked hind leg.


Hello 

I suppose that such position of knees as described and demonstrated on photo is not tupical for old schoolers - but it is tupical for girls  According to my observations 3 of 4 girls ride in the same way despite of the stance type (forward or duck) . Especially if they are self-educated riders. I have never seen guys riding with knees together and with front knee turned backward. 

I ride forward stance +15/+36 on my NS Raptor, cause I like carving. But I don't ever hold my knees together.

This year I also had tried my friends Lib Dark Series with duck stance - and I had no problem with it, it was rather comfortable for me from the first run. I could carve without any special problem. But of course forward stance is better for carving.

The main problem of duck for me is big boots overhang. When you carve hard - it realy matters. Some times when the piste is groomed well I can dig snow with my boots while carving even with my aggresive forward angles. 

Duck stance is also not conveniet for using rotation. You should keep your body along board, either you have great probability to traumatize your back knee.

In my opinion there is no sence to use duck if you don't spend more then 20% of your time riding in park/buttering/riding switch.


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

[email protected] said:


> I suppose that such position of knees as described and demonstrate on photo is not tupical for old schoolers - but it is tupical for girls  According to my observations 3 of 4 girls ride in the same way despite of the stance type (forward or duck) . Especially if they are self-educated riders. I have never seen guys riding with knees together and with front knee turned backward.


Good point! Yes, you caught me, this *inward torsion of the front knee* is a bad habit of mine in pow when don't have as much weight on the front leg and do rather relaxed long frontside turns  or even worse, when I straight line (in pow!): 









It's not always as bad  "normally", the front knee points forward.
A more concentrated front pow turn:

















Hoping:









Backside:









Don't have any pics of groomer riding, I'll force hubby to take some next season. Maybe I do the same mistake there, I'll keep an eye on that... even if I don't think so. But what you _think_ you're doing and what you actually _do_ can be very different :laugh:


It wasn't the inward torsion of the front knee but rather the crooking of the hind knee that the guy meant 

Can't speak for other women... but do you have any explanation for your observation? Was thinking of one... Like most women, I have slightly x-legs (I think it's called knock knees) rather than O-legs (bowlegs?). Maybe this anatomical difference plus the fact that no one corrected the habit right at the beginning could explain the "urgently need to pee" style while riding unconcentrated/relaxed


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## [email protected] (Feb 25, 2013)

neni said:


> Can't speak for other women... but do you have any explanation for your observation? Was thinking of one... Like most women, I have slightly x-legs (I think it's called knock knees) rather than O-legs (bowlegs?). Maybe this anatomical difference plus the fact that no one corrected the habit right at the beginning could explain the "urgently need to pee" style while riding unconcentrated/relaxed


May be this is because of some anatomic differences...
I don't think you sholud find it to be a ploblem 
According to the photos - you are riding very confident and have a great fun!
Fun is the major point. .


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## Donutz (May 12, 2010)

The pee stance would require A) a narrow stance setup and B) rear binding angles set more forward facing rather than duck. At least that's how I'd visualize it. I don't know if any of that is actually "wrong". But I have to wonder how strong the stance is. If you think about a more "normal" stance, it's more of a triangle shape, which structurally is a lot stronger.

Just some random observations. No real conclusion to offer.


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## CassMT (Mar 14, 2013)

This thread is making me feel....not like an outlier at all


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## dreampow (Sep 26, 2011)

I rode ++ for a short while on a longer stiffer posi camber deck, no doubt for carving it was awesome. Problem was I soon started riding dense trees in powder and found I couldn't get the pressure I wanted over my tail (maybe just my anatomy) to whip round those tight turns.

I then switched to duck -15 +15 for a few seasons and this year my buddy who is also my coach advised me to go -6 and +15. 

This guy is a former full pro and also did 10 years coaching pros. He also took 2nd place in the all Japan carving event which is judged on speed, style and control. He also took third in the all Japan half pipe so he knows a thing or two.

He reckons for most people a duck stance with less angle on the back foot is best for all round. Of course that may depend on body anatomy and muscle memory is also huge if you have 20 years or more in one stance.


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## MochaBeans (Feb 1, 2013)

How do you guys use cant pads with forward stance?


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## CassMT (Mar 14, 2013)

Back foot only for me


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## MochaBeans (Feb 1, 2013)

CassMT said:


> Back foot only for me


Sorry if this is kind of noob, but how come it looks like your straps are the other way around? or is the stomp pad not between your feet?

OT: When I was switching between forward and duck to try out both, it definitely wasn't like starting over again. Just felt kind of weird because I kept automatically rotating my back leg back to the other stance's position.


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## CassMT (Mar 14, 2013)

MochaBeans said:


> Sorry if this is kind of noob, but how come it looks like your straps are the other way around? or is the stomp pad not between your feet?
> 
> OT: When I was switching between forward and duck to try out both, it definitely wasn't like starting over again. Just felt kind of weird because I kept automatically rotating my back leg back to the other stance's position.


I'm goofy-foot (rt foot forward) and i like to clip in the middle, so, double goofy

i do like my stomp between my feet though, so _kinda_ normal too


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## Donutz (May 12, 2010)

CassMT said:


> I'm goofy-foot (rt foot forward) and i like to clip in the middle, so, double goofy
> 
> i do like my stomp between my feet though, so _kinda_ normal too


I tried that way for a short time because it seemed to make more sense to have the buckles between your feet to make them easier to reach. However, I discovered that placing them that way put more strain on the buckles when the board was dangling from one foot on the lift. Straps actually loosened up a couple of clicks.


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## CassMT (Mar 14, 2013)

Hm,never had either of those problems or even noticed the reversed binding

Anyway, the cant is rad, helps maintain my Outlier status, lol


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

*Non rotatable highback...?*

I'm looking for stiffer bindings for the Flagship. Eyeing the Nidecker Carbon and Ride El Hefe. With the Nidecker ones, the highback is not rotatable... Any of you guys with rather steep forward angles have experience with non rotatable highbacks or even with the Nid. Carbon ones? Is the fixed highback-board edge angle annoying? 





CassMT said:


> Anyway, the cant is rad, helps maintain my Outlier status, lol


What material did you use for your custom cant?


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## [email protected] (Feb 25, 2013)

neni said:


> I'm looking for stiffer bindings for the Flagship. Eyeing the Nidecker Carbon and Ride El Hefe. With the Nidecker ones, the highback is not rotatable... Any of you guys with rather steep forward angles have experience with non rotatable highbacks or even with the Nid. Carbon ones? Is the fixed highback-board edge angle annoying?


Actually I am using nidecker carbon bindings with forward angles. And I never had any problems with non-rotateble highbaks. I also think this feature is wrong.

Carbons are stiff comfortable bindings with good dampening, but I would not recommend them for girl. Because they are very bulky and heavy.
Flux SF45 about 2 times lighter, much more compact, and have better responce. I find them to be a lot better choice.


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## timmytard (Mar 19, 2009)

[email protected] said:


> Actually I am using nidecker carbon bindings with forward angles. And I never had any problems with non-rotateble highbaks. I also think this feature is wrong.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Although my 900's do have rotatable highbacks, the highback itself is asymmetrical. 

It is pre-curved exactly where a normal highback would start to dig in the side of your calf.

The amount mine adjust isn't very much, & the asymmetrical highback is really comfy.

Most definitely not tiny chick bindings They are big & bulky.
& Holy Shit, the first time I picked them up, I thought they had lead in them somewhere:dunno:

Neni, have you not checked out the Nidecker "CHICK" bindings?

This model is named "Fancy Black". It appears to me that you should be able to rotate them?


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