# Improving rotation for 360's ?



## gjsnowboarder (Sep 1, 2009)

work you core and do excercises that incorporate the most muscles possible.

Snowboard Workout presented by Pro Ride Whistler

Workouts for Skiers and Snowboarders (I like the suggestions at this one the best)

It could be your technique for spinning that is holding you up. Either search the forum on spinning or reply back with how you move your body to spin. My suggestion is try to describe it logically like starting from what your feet do up through your head, etc.


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## baseline6 (Mar 12, 2009)

Thanks for the links man I hit the gym about 3-5 times a week depending on how busy I am. I'm starting to do more cross training to get ready for the season. Those ab workouts should help me out allot I do a 5 minute abdominal workout everytime I hit the gym. I'll deffineyly work allot of those abb workouts in. My huck is pretty clean I'd say I basicly wind up bring my leading shoulder in toward my back knee. Then I bend my leading knee in and pop up using my calves and I try to land as flat footed as possible. It seems to be good to not get in the habit of landing on my toes and landing flat footed instead. Sound good?


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## HoboMaster (May 16, 2010)

Bulk up your lower body instead of your upper body. What the hell do you need your arms for snowboarding besides balance anyways . I ride a road bicycle, mountain bike, and hike alott during the summer/fall so this season especially my legs should be tough as nails. Not a big fan of the Gym, I would rather be out doing something. If you want to look bulky the Gym is certainly the way to go though.


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## baseline6 (Mar 12, 2009)

Thanks for the advice wolf. But Hey man im working out my legs. I work them out every thursday I do 100 yards of lunges with a 60 pound bar bell on my back. I also squat 300 pounds and dead lift 200. Id say I work out my legs the hardest and on top of all that I do organized jump workouts to build explosiveness in my calves. Im not a meat head with huge arms that never works on his legs. Im just super bummed I cant do a 360 just from a regular jump anymore. Im thinking i need to get more height in my jumping and work on the side core muscles that help you with that explosiveness in your wind up.


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## baseline6 (Mar 12, 2009)

Snowolf said:


> I am no body builder or fitness expert by any means so this is just a lay person`s question. Could bulking up actually hinder your agility? It seems to me that some of the most fluid, limber and light on their feet "athletes" are these tiny ice skaters and dancers. With bulking up through body building, you increase mass. The more mass you have, the more energy it requires to get that mass moving. Kind of like the difference between getting a race car moving and a loaded semi. Sure the semi has more horsepower, but it takes a loooooong time to get it all moving. Maybe this applies to riding too; I would think there is a "sweet spot" between muscles mass and agility.
> 
> Like I said, not posted as an argument against your position, just thinking out loud about the subject.


Ohh no wolf my reply on working out my legs was directed at hobo master. My bad man haha thanks though for given me some advice. Im not bulking up im honestly doing low weight high rep workouts trying to build natural overall body strength so I can tone out. Im switching my leg workouts now toward doing more cross training. The way I see it if I can build muscle memory stop doing jumps and rotations that will make my learning curve shorter


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## j.gnar (Sep 4, 2009)

*Number one, you need to let the board help you generate much of your rotation through proper use of edging. A very slight carve off of the hit will do the trick
*
wolf nailed it right off the bat. above is the only thing you need to do really.
working out your core will only benefit your overall riding... but for a 360, especially if you were already capable of doing them, you really dont need to be in great physical shape


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## gjsnowboarder (Sep 1, 2009)

definitely follow Snowolf's advice. it sounds like you probably have more of a technique problem then a muscle problem. 
Limberness could be throwing up a minor roadblock but highly unlikely on 3's, and if you get into the gym. 

You mentioned landing on a flatboard all the time. take the time to check out the pro's when they ride down and throw rotations. Check out how they typically "block-off" there rotation after starting it and keep there head/eyes moving around spotting their rotation. 

Exercise suggestion:
I suggest practicing in front of a mirror and have a line drawn(tape or seam on floor works too,etc.) on the floor. Start by trying your 3 your normal way. Pay attention to how much effort you are expanding and if possible if you have any body parts that are moving opposite of the way your are spinning. If you do stop them. Next thin to look at is your spin flat or angled? If it is angle chances are you will have a off axis spin on a jump and landing it could be interesting. Next try to expand less energy for the overall spin by concentrating on the energy release in your pre-wind, and how you are spotting you landing. Keep this up by trying to make your pre-wind smaller and smaller. Remember you are not gliding forward and be boosted into the air by a jump so if you land a couple degree short of a 360 no big thin as long as your aren't landing 270. And if you are sadistic do these as part of a burpee.

P.S. remember to keep your feet apart at all times similar to your board stance. to help this you can hold a foam piece between your ankles(or taped) I do not recommend a block of wood, but something flex so that you don't screw up your ankles.

P.S.2 - you can up the difficulty and body awareness by jumping off, over, and onto various items. I like using the bosu ball flipped upside down for this.

P.S.3 - cause I like this stuff look for exercises that target your "fast" twitch muscle.


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## Donutz (May 12, 2010)

Working out is a good thing, because a) working your muscles causes your body to increase bone density, which is obviously a good thing, b) toned muscles are less likely to tear and can take more of the impact force, sparing your bones, c) working out increases endurance, especially the low-weight high-rep exercises. Just don't forget to stretch. Working with weights tends to shorten your range of motion otherwise.

If you have to choose between working with weights or stretching, go with stretching.


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## JayR (Sep 1, 2010)

It's called commitment... Yeah I know we are all afraid of it from time to time. That is all it is! It has nothing to do with how fit you are or aren't... If you were talking 7's or above, I agree your fitness level is important. But pretty much anybody out there can do a three if they just commit to edging and keeping your eyes and shoulders moving in the direction you want to spin. The body follows the eyes start with that and turning your head. Feel that turning your shoulders in the same direction and feel you hips and core doing the same... Visualize and it will happen...


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## mattus123 (Jun 1, 2009)

isntead of building muscle..maybe work on building technique?
i find the most inportant thing to throwing a 360, is the take off (prewind etc etc)
YouTube - Backside 360, Snowboard Trick Tip, Regular Riders
that has a realli indepth explanation of all the stages of a spin
it helped me alot


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## CustomX - J-rad (Mar 29, 2010)

baseline6 said:


> Thanks for the links man I hit the gym about 3-5 times a week depending on how busy I am. I'm starting to do more cross training to get ready for the season. Those ab workouts should help me out allot I do a 5 minute abdominal workout everytime I hit the gym. I'll deffineyly work allot of those abb workouts in. My huck is pretty clean I'd say I basicly wind up bring my leading shoulder in toward my back knee. Then I bend my leading knee in and pop up using my calves and I try to land as flat footed as possible. It seems to be good to not get in the habit of landing on my toes and landing flat footed instead. Sound good?


You want to do a 360 right? not a switch backside double cork 1260. Go to a gymnastics place and get on a trampoline and practice backside and frontside 360's. remember, backside is easier than frontside. Im not saying dont go to the gym, its a good idea to get in shape cuz americans..... lol, nm, im canadian. Anyhow, If you think about it, your your body does 15% of the work for a 360 or 180, your approach to the jump is what gets the spin going. for goofy (what i am) i approach the jump on the right side to do frontside spins, turn to the left, then as i go up the jump i switch to my heel edge and carve up the lip going straight off the jump then let your body follow to do the frontside 360 spin. for backside, i go on the left side, turn over to the right as im going down the in run then as i hit the transition on the jump i carve to the left (in the center of the jump) so i am going straight off the lip and then my body follows and spin the backside 360. Thats what i do for 15-20ft jumps which i have only spun off of. when i do those small jumps in the beginner park those small jumps which skier kids roll over the lip and dont get air i just go on my edge and spin it using my body, The bigger the jump the less your body needs works for the spin and the more your approach becomes crutial which set's you up for the spin.


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## bigwhiffa (Aug 2, 2010)

The speed of a 360 rotation can feel uncomfortable or awkward when starting out for lots of people. 
I suggest starting on the ground without your board on. 
Tuck your knees up and close your shoulders to increase speed. Drop your legs and open your arms to slow down.
Tape your edges and do some spins on the carpet. Same idea with your legs.
Bonus for those with a tramp. Gets you on your board and in the air before everyone else.
When you get confident with your backside spin, work on your front. Throw in some grabs and your on your way.


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## CheckMySteez (Jul 27, 2009)

Plain and simple;

No matter how; big, small, short, fat or purple you are improving your rotation is the same for everyone.

1. Increase speed if you have all not ready done so.

2. As you leave the lip of the jump bring your knees into your body.

Voila we have rotation!


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## anti-bling (Apr 21, 2010)

I'm in total agreement with Snowolf, strength is not the issue. Snowboarding well is not nearly as much about muscular strength as it is about coordination and sensitivity.

One thing that helped me learn 360s early on were cat tracks. Ride up the side of a wall, either by a cat track or in the halfpipe, and try an jumping alley-oop (rotating back uphill). 

Start out by riding straight up the wall, throw a 180, and come right back down. After you get the hang of the motion, decrease the angle you ride up the wall. 

Start riding up at lower and lower angles, and jump past 180 more and more. After you get the hang of it, you will be able to ride at very low angles up the wall and almost do whole 360s. Ideally, you should feel relaxed, and your upper body starting the rotation well before you leave the snow.

At that point, take it to the jumps, and follow the advice others already posted.

By the way, this works for both frontside and backside rotations.


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## merchomini (Oct 18, 2010)

Well the thing about lifting is that when you start adding muscle you being to lose flexibility, and lifting legs would definitely help with snowboarding if you do it right, lots of explosive movements, squats would definitely help. The key is to remain flexible as you gain muscle, and that requires stretching pre and post lift. Although i would think you could be able to get a 3 around regardless, but maybe you have lost flexibility in your back and shoulders so it makes getting the momentum built up harder.



My two cents at least......


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## Citizen24 (Nov 6, 2010)

I would be scared to hit anything with additional mass.

Anyone ever under/over shot something and land flat? Not a fun feeling, especially in the knees. Factor in additional mass (I think your impact pressure is something like body weight x however many feet) and you could end your season before it even starts.

Anyways, as someone previously said, a perfect 3 is an effortless 3. The best way to learn how to throw an effortless 3 is to practice sucking up your legs for the entire duration of your hangtime, *before* applying rotation

When the above becomes natural, the effort applied to throw a 1 is reduced significantly. Transition into 3 by keeping the lead knee parallel with your lead shoulder. (goofy b3 = nose knee/shoulder). Alignment is a lot easier to maintain with a grab (indy).

People will say 'carve' the lip 45-270 degrees, but you don't need to carve to throw a perfect 3. People will also say that 'hucking' makes the shoulder offset from the knee - again irrelevant for a 3 - but correction occurs mid rotation.

The only other variable is 100% commitment and trailing something around 10ft. You'll never 'feel' that perfect rotation of a micro-booter, but when you do, it's a pretty sick feeling.


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