# Stiff bindings for freestyle?.... Burton genesis vs Vita vs cartel vs cartel limited.



## RIDERUK (Oct 22, 2014)

Alrigghty then...
Long story short i'm a 50% freestyle/50% freeride intermediate rider and I've gradually been moving towards stiffer boots/bindings. Board: NS proto hd

Originally started with burton freestyle bindings but have upgraded to the genesis 2-seasons ago (burton genesis green machine 2013-14 to be precise). 

I never really found them much stiffer and am starting to question whether I want some stiffer bindings. I am having ongoing issues with them coming loose every other run and the toestrap slipping off unless cranked pretty tight. Apparently this seasons genesis and the genesis TT are much better but anyways...

I'm considering swapping them out. Would love the cartel commissioned but can't find them anywhere... also considering the cartel LTD or the malavita (which i'm told is stiffer than burton advertise at 6/10). I assume diode is too stiff.

Anyone have any opinions/suggestions? I'm generally sticking with burton due to laziness and avoiding researching other brands.

My second question is why everyone generally suggests softer bindings for freestyle? I've certainly found jumping and particularly spinning has been easier with stiffer boots/bindings. Sure buttering/presses are a bit harder but not a bid deal. 

Thaaaaaaaaaanks


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## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

Malavita. The frame is technically softer, but the highback is stiffer. And the difference in feel in the highback outweighs the softness difference in the fram compared to the Cartel.

From Burton, get the Malavita.

From others since I've already done the research.
K2 Lien AT w/the gasket, Flow NX2 or Fuse GT, Ride Rodeo, Now Drive, Rome Katana or 390.


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## RIDERUK (Oct 22, 2014)

Nivek said:


> Malavita. The frame is technically softer, but the highback is stiffer. And the difference in feel in the highback outweighs the softness difference in the fram compared to the Cartel.
> 
> From Burton, get the Malavita.
> 
> ...


Do you think the problems i'm having with the genesis are just me? I know you've ridden them a bit from previous posts. Wondering if the malavita will be noticeable more responsive or if it's the suspension on the genesis that's deceptive. 

Any thoughts on the stiffer bindings for freestyle conundrum?

Thanks for the recommendation. I'd looked briefly at the rome katana in store as they sounded awesome but wasn't sure if they were too soft.

EDIT: Had a look through and that seems to be a range of quite different bindings. E.g. the ride rodeo appears to be a very soft park binding whereas the now drive is an 8/10 flex freeride binding?


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## Simon Birch (Mar 11, 2014)

You can customize the stiffness/softness on rome targas via inserts.


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## pikeboarder (Nov 12, 2014)

I'm in the same boat looking for bindings to match with the Proto HD I just ordered. I'm more 90/10 All mountain vs park...however looking to learn park more.

I believe the softer bindings are wanted by freestylers because it's easier to tweak tricks and less response when landing (although could be wrong). Why are you looking for a stiff binding out of curiosity? What did you not like about the genesis (ie lack of response)?

I'm looking at the Contact Pros and Malavitas. I read Malavitas are softer than cartels but provide more response compared to Genesis. I'm kind of leaning towards Contact Pros as they are about $70 cheaper at the moment with current sales. My only concern is how do they hold up on speed runs.


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## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

The Genesis performs very similar to the Cartel. The Malavits is certainly more supportive and responsive. Katanas wont be too soft. That aluminium heel wrap does a lot. Rodeos are a full aluminium frame and heelcup. The highback is kind of soft in the top third, but the rest is solid. It is by no means a soft binding. The Drive is called a freeride binding from Now as the only binding Stiffer is the ODrive, which is basically a cast. The Drive has the slightly taller highback with the psuedo half wing for support but the frame is the same as the IPO and Select. It just has the aluminium disc mount. I wouldnt feel uncomfortable with them on any mid flex or stiffer deck. 

I have ridden anything from uber soft Contacts and Flow Quattros on park decks, to now I'm riding the fairly stiff Flow NX2s on my jobstick. It's a feel thing. A stiffer binding will offer more control while a softer one offers easier tweak and more forgiveness.


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## RIDERUK (Oct 22, 2014)

pikeboarder said:


> I'm in the same boat looking for bindings to match with the Proto HD I just ordered. I'm more 90/10 All mountain vs park...however looking to learn park more.
> 
> I believe the softer bindings are wanted by freestylers because it's easier to tweak tricks and less response when landing (although could be wrong). Why are you looking for a stiff binding out of curiosity? What did you not like about the genesis (ie lack of response)?
> 
> I'm looking at the Contact Pros and Malavitas. I read Malavitas are softer than cartels but provide more response compared to Genesis. I'm kind of leaning towards Contact Pros as they are about $70 cheaper at the moment with current sales. My only concern is how do they hold up on speed runs.


I think I want more response/stiffness as I don't feel my movements are quickly transmitted with the genesis. When i'm trying to rail hard on an edge I don't feel like i'm getting the support I need there. I end up tightening the bindings very tight to try and get more response/engagement.



Nivek said:


> The Genesis performs very similar to the Cartel. The Malavits is certainly more supportive and responsive. Katanas wont be too soft. That aluminium heel wrap does a lot. Rodeos are a full aluminium frame and heelcup. The highback is kind of soft in the top third, but the rest is solid. It is by no means a soft binding. The Drive is called a freeride binding from Now as the only binding Stiffer is the ODrive, which is basically a cast. The Drive has the slightly taller highback with the psuedo half wing for support but the frame is the same as the IPO and Select. It just has the aluminium disc mount. I wouldnt feel uncomfortable with them on any mid flex or stiffer deck.
> 
> I have ridden anything from uber soft Contacts and Flow Quattros on park decks, to now I'm riding the fairly stiff Flow NX2s on my jobstick. It's a feel thing. A stiffer binding will offer more control while a softer one offers easier tweak and more forgiveness.


Do you think the vita's would be noticeably different to the genesis? Part of me thinks I should stop blaming the gear and it's probably my technique that's lacking. I also feel it might feel as if i'm getting less response because you just don't feel the heel straps on the genesis. Might be comforting being able to feel a good ankle strap resisting your movements.


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