# Flow bindings question...



## cadencesdad (Nov 18, 2008)

So I have a few seasons and a few boards under my belt now, but I have just kept the same Flow bindings for each board through each season.

I have noticed a majority of pros don't use the Flow bindings.

I like the ease of getting in and out, and they are pretty comfortable (I don't have much to compare them to though) to me.

My question is why don't the pros use them (minus the Flow team riders)?

Are they just heavier or just not as comfortable or what?

I just got a pickle and was thinking about new bindings.

Thanks


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

cadencesdad said:


> So I have a few seasons and a few boards under my belt now, but I have just kept the same Flow bindings for each board through each season.
> 
> I have noticed a majority of pros don't use the Flow bindings.
> 
> ...


Hi Cadencesdad,

Your question has a lot in it. The top pro snowboarders are typically fully sponsored and have board, boot, binding, clothing, accessory, and out of industry sponsors. They are not only given specific gear but they are paid to ride it. That is not to say that they do not love the gear that they ride on (many have design input as well), but it is probably fair to say that there are other motivations at work there.

Now for the average Joe paying customer. Flow is the second largest binding company (the first is still Burton), so when riders are choosing with their own money... 

Flow bindings have a unique feel, extra entry options, and Flow puts a lot of cash and effort into developing and improving their product. If you have even a two year old binding by any of the top makers (including Flow), I would suggest demoing a set of Flow 2011's. This is an insanely refined product. Still, no one type of binding will appeal to all riders. Demo if you can.


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## zk0ot (Nov 9, 2009)

I rode flows in years past. they are convenient... what i see alot of is kids love the idea of flows but it tends to be something they grow out of. (not size wise but more performance) as you demand more performance out of your baord and bindings.... flow seemed to lack in the sense that a traditional strap in would. their bindings these days may prove me wrong becuase im not super up to date on them... 

its a love hate thing... ride what you like. jsut dont buy clickers.


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## Leo (Nov 24, 2009)

I'm sorry zk00t, I still love you bro (no ****), but I don't like your comment one bit.

Here is the thing, two year old Flows are extremely old tech-wise. Flow is one of those companies that drastically improve from year to year. 2010 and 2011 Flows have been drastically improved from all years prior.

The responsiveness comment is also misleading. People always make it seem like Flows offer very little response. This is flat out wrong. In actuality, Flows offer better edge to edge power transfer from binding to board. Where Flows lose in the response category is the other types of movements such as side to side. You know, like when you are pressing out your board, spinning, etc... And that is in fact due to the strap design. Even then, Flow has refined their straps. Their I-Flex strap is awesome and offers the most responsiveness to date (in the Flow line).

By no means does Flow restrict you from doing any tricks or carving out some aggressive lines. It's just that traditional bindings make it slightly easier.

The huge pay-off from Flows isn't the ease of entry. It's the comfort. Hands down, there is no competition in the comfort department of bindings. Flow's caps are designed to distribute pressure evenly on your feet. This means greatly reduced foot fatigue. Now this is very noticeable. Of course, if you ride real mellow and only for a few hours then this isn't really important. But if you're like me and like to ride aggressive for long periods, then there is a huge difference.

I still love traditional bindings (I'm getting 390 bosses this season), but Flow gets a bad rep around more "core" snowboarders. Some of you guys are brutal man. Too often I hear about riders trashing Flows because a pair from 2007 was uncomfortable or heavy. Too often I hear about riders dogging Flows because their friend's 2006 Flow Flites broke. Then there are those powder junkies saying Flows are impossible for snow surfing days not knowing that Flow has since released a mini-ratchet system to completely resolve this issue. Their newer SE line took that solution a step further while also making the set-up process a complete breeze.

I always recommend Flows for people looking for the most comfort out of their bindings. The speed of entry is only good for riders who are uncomfortable bending/sitting down to strap into traditional bindings or people that shred mostly on small hills.


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## neednsnow (Nov 30, 2007)

Leo said:


> I'm sorry zk00t, I still love you bro (no ****), but I don't like your comment one bit.
> 
> Here is the thing, two year old Flows are extremely old tech-wise. Flow is one of those companies that drastically improve from year to year. 2010 and 2011 Flows have been drastically improved from all years prior.
> 
> ...



Worddddd!!!!


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

One thing that is awesome about Flow is that they listen to their dealers and to their customers. They heard the comments about their lower priced models and completely reworked the line right down to the Flite 2. Those bindings now have full Airframe ratchet side entry (quickset buckles on the opposite side), rear entry of course, a completely redesigned and reinforced top strap and a simplified single dial forward lean adjustment. Most importantly, they have shed weight and added rigidity to the baseplate and highback. 

Sooooo...that should pretty well do away with the concept that lower end Flow can't hang. You can go $30.00 higher than the Flite 2 or Trilogy before you find a competitor's bindings that will compete.


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## zk0ot (Nov 9, 2009)

i edited my comment a bit be less misdirecting...


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## j.gnar (Sep 4, 2009)

cadencesdad said:


> So I have a few seasons and a few boards under my belt now, but I have just kept the same Flow bindings for each board through each season.
> 
> I have noticed a majority of pros don't use the Flow bindings.
> 
> ...


as far as flows go the only real advantage they have over a traditional binding is the ease of access. 
if you want to strap in super fast,be pretty comfortable and not expect much else out of your binding....stick with flows . if you plan on getting into the park and want a binding that will give you the most out of your board i would highly suggest you buy a new pair of bindings. you can get a lighter, more durable, more responsive binding that will do nothing but help your riding.

everyone has their own opinion as far as bindings go, but personally i think flows are pretty bad. you'd be doing yourself a disservice by not checking out different companies.


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## neednsnow (Nov 30, 2007)

j.gnar said:


> as far as flows go the only real advantage they have over a traditional binding is the ease of access.
> if you want to strap in super fast,be pretty comfortable and not expect much else out of your binding....stick with flows . if you plan on getting into the park and want a binding that will give you the most out of your board i would highly suggest you buy a new pair of bindings. you can get a lighter, more durable, more responsive binding that will do nothing but help your riding.
> 
> everyone has their own opinion as far as bindings go, but personally i think flows are the worst bindings on the market



See, i knew something was missing last winter! If only Scott Lago had been riding non-flow bindings......his medal just might be a different color.


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## neednsnow (Nov 30, 2007)

Doh, I jumped on ya prior to your edit.:cheeky4:


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## j.gnar (Sep 4, 2009)

neednsnow said:


> See, i knew something was missing last winter! If only Scott Lago had been riding non-flow bindings......his medal just might be a different color.


that has absolutely nothing to do with what i said :dunno:


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

j.gnar said:


> as far as flows go the only real advantage they have over a traditional binding is the ease of access.
> if you want to strap in super fast,be pretty comfortable and not expect much else out of your binding....stick with flows . if you plan on getting into the park and want a binding that will give you the most out of your board i would highly suggest you buy a new pair of bindings. you can get a lighter, more durable, more responsive binding that will do nothing but help your riding.
> 
> everyone has their own opinion as far as bindings go, but personally i think flows are pretty bad. you'd be doing yourself a disservice by not checking out different companies.


Of the long list of great things about Flow bindings, the extra entry options come in close to the bottom. _Performance_ and _No Pressure Point Support _are #'s 1 and 2. The level of support and rigidity varies over the 18 current models.

It is hard to compare all of the Flow models at once as there are so many different contructions and designs.

When you are comparing weight, what Flow model are you comparing to what other model? You may be surprised to know that Flow is beating most of its top competitor's similarly priced models in terms of weight now.

What was the last Flow binding you rode? This is sounding kind of dated.


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## Leo (Nov 24, 2009)

Wiredsport said:


> You may be surprised to know that Flow is beating many of its top competitors similarly priced models in terms of weight now.


Agreed. The NXT-FSE's are real light. My 2010 models were lighter than a lot of other bindings I demoed for 2011.


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## Donutz (May 12, 2010)

One of the things that's very rarely discussed on these threads is HOW MUCH of a difference there is. So Flows are less responsive than bucklers. How much less responsive? Is the average rider going to try them and stop halfway down the mountain and say "this sucks" ?

Well, no. You have to be pushing your equipment pretty hard to really notice a difference.

How much more comfortable are Flows? Will you stop halfway down the mountain and say "wow. This is great!" ?

Well, no. The comfort starts to become more apparent after a few hours. As others have pointed out, after a few hours when your feet are starting to ache from fighting traditional bucklers, the Flows still feel like a pair of socks. At that point, fatigue is far more of a factor in your riding than innate responsiveness, even if you DO push your equipment that hard.


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## Leo (Nov 24, 2009)

Actually, I do notice the comfort of Flows right off the bat.

As for prolonged riding, I have always said that Flows greatly reduce foot fatigue. It's enough of a difference for me to use my Flows when I know I'm going to shred more than a day.


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

Donutz said:


> One of the things that's very rarely discussed on these threads is HOW MUCH of a difference there is. So Flows are less responsive than bucklers. How much less responsive?


Did you mean, how much more responsive? Which of the 18 Flow models are you referring to? What "bucklers" are you comapring to?


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## neednsnow (Nov 30, 2007)

j.gnar said:


> that has absolutely nothing to do with what i said :dunno:..................
> 
> if you plan on getting into the park and want a binding that will give you the most out of your board i would highly suggest you buy a new pair of bindings.



It was sarcasm. Seems as if flows did pretty well for the Olympic Bronze medalist.


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## j.gnar (Sep 4, 2009)

Wiredsport said:


> Of the long list of great things about Flow bindings, the extra entry options come in close to the bottom. _Performance_ and _No Pressure Point Support _are #'s 1 and 2. The level of support and rigidity varies over the 18 current models.
> 
> It is hard to compare all of the Flow models at once as there are so many different contructions and designs.
> 
> ...


they are old but not horribly old, i had the 2008 flow nxt at. im comparing them to every other binding ive ridden...08 burton custom detox, 09 rome 390's, technine team pros,ride contrabands and now the union contacts. out of all the bindings ive ever ridden, flows felt the heaviest and seemed to be pretty cheaply made. they were the only bindings i've owned that have broken more than once


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

j.gnar said:


> they are old but not horribly old, i had the 2008 flow nxt at. im comparing them to every other binding ive ridden...08 burton custom detox, 09 rome 390's, technine team pros,ride contrabands and now the union contacts. out of all the bindings ive ever ridden, flows felt the heaviest and seemed to be pretty cheaply made. they were the only bindings i've owned that have broken more than once


Three years later you will find them to compare well in terms of weight to Rome Burton and Union bindings, all while maintaining among the lowest warranty rates in the industry and one of the highest customer satisfaction rates. As I mentioned above, there are 18 current Flow models, so I could not generically say that the brand is lighter than another brand, but if you would like to compare a specific 2011 model to another specific 2011 model, I will be happy to get you that info.


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## j.gnar (Sep 4, 2009)

Wiredsport said:


> Three years later you will find them to compare well in terms of weight to Rome Burton and Union bindings, all while maintaining among the lowest warranty rates in the industry and one of the highest customer satisfaction rates. As I mentioned above, there are 18 current Flow models, so I could not generically say that the brand is lighter than another brand, but if you would like to compare a specific 2011 model to another specific 2011 model, I will be happy to get you that info.


im not here to argue down to the exact weight of the bindings, the OP asked whether he should keep his flows (that hes used on many boards so i'm assuming they are at least a season old) or wether he should buy new bindings for his new board...and i gave him some insight


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## TMXMOTORSPORTS (Jun 10, 2009)

I am calling Flow right now to order the NXT AT to replace my old 05/06 Team bindings.


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## Donutz (May 12, 2010)

Wiredsport said:


> Did you mean, how much more responsive? Which of the 18 Flow models are you referring to? What "bucklers" are you comapring to?


Uh, no, less. A lot of people say flows are less responsive. I'm personally comparing Flow Fives to Salomon CForce strap-ins (I don't know where I got 'bucklers' from, but I can't stop). This year I have some NXT-ATs and some Burton Mission bindings to compare, but need snow first


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

Donutz said:


> Uh, no, less. A lot of people say flows are less responsive.


Got it, A lot of misinformation and old information moves around. Let us know after you try your new AT's what you find about their responsiveness.



j.gnar said:


> im not here to argue down to the exact weight of the bindings, the OP asked whether he should keep his flows (that hes used on many boards so i'm assuming they are at least a season old) or wether he should buy new bindings for his new board...and i gave him some insight


Got it. Weight is a pretty specific thing and it is very easy to check for sure. Happy to get an answer if there is a need to check the weight of a particular Flow model against another model.


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## j.gnar (Sep 4, 2009)

Wiredsport said:


> Got it, A lot of misinformation and old information moves around. Let us know after you try your new AT's what you find about their responsiveness.
> 
> 
> 
> Got it. Weight is a pretty specific thing and it is very easy to check for sure. Happy to get an answer if there is a need to check the weight of a particular Flow model against another model.


for shits and giggles...what does the lightest flow binding weigh vs the union contact/force


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

j.gnar said:


> for shits and giggles...what does the lightest flow binding weigh vs the union contact/force


For sure. Coming Monday.


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## Aliaz (Oct 14, 2010)

I have to agree about Flow's being comfortable,especially with my oversensitive feet. Loved my Flite 2 that I got cheap, will probably like my new NXT-ATSE even more.


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## Leo (Nov 24, 2009)

j.gnar: I won't disagree with you on the 2008 models being clunkers. Flow did in fact decrease their weight over the years. Their ratchet system has been vastly improved as well.

But I can't knock you. Yours broke and I understand that leaves a sour tastes in your mouth. However, you should hop on a chance to demo someone's newer Flows if you can 

If we ever do a meet, I'll be more than happy to let you demo my FSE's :thumbsup:


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## girlsare2fun (Sep 30, 2010)

I got the 2010 Flow NXT-AT bindings, there one of the higher end models and they are super light. 33% glass-filled nylon in the hi-back and an aluminum base plate are some of the notable upgrades they've put into it.


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

Here are some actual weights measured on our shipping scale. For each this was a single Size Large binding with disk and all mounting hardware:

Flow NXT-FSE = 2 lbs 4.8 oz

Flow Quattro SE = 2 lbs 2.37 oz

Flight 2 Men's = 2 lbs 3.1 oz

Rome 390 = 2 lbs 2.32 oz

Union Force = 2 lbs 2.44 oz


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## j.gnar (Sep 4, 2009)

Wiredsport said:


> Here are some actual weights measured on our shipping scale. For each this was a single Size Large binding with disk and all mounting hardware:
> 
> Flow NXT-FSE = 2 lbs 4.8 oz
> 
> ...


thats pretty crazy! its about time flow got with it and started making lighter bindings, i might have to demo some this year


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