# How to Define Aggressiveness



## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

With dynamic, muscle power, active, pushing. 

E.g. it's not simply speed. One can ride a run fast w/o hardly any effort. That's just exploiting gravity. But if you ride fast and put a hard carve into this, it'll cost a lot of muscle effort to hold that de-/acceleration; do this an entire run and you'll sweat n pant heavily at the bottom.

Ur first step is to ride low. Bend those knees more. If you think you ride low already? Ride lower!

And tilt the board and push those edge deep into the snow. Enjoy the g forces which develop. 
Play with the radius of such carves. Make them tighter. Lower. Faster. You'll quickly see how much legs you'll use.


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## DaveMcI (Aug 19, 2013)

Drag some knuckles, both hands. Watch some downhill skateboarding, then do that on a snowboard.


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## poser (Mar 7, 2018)

Aggressive: getting low, getting after it, taking high G turns with no skidding. Confident and skilled decision making.


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## LALUNE (Feb 23, 2017)

neni said:


> With dynamic, muscle power, active, pushing.
> 
> E.g. it's not simply speed. One can ride a run fast w/o hardly any effort. That's just exploiting gravity. But if you ride fast and put a hard carve into this, it'll cost a lot of muscle effort to hold that de-/acceleration; do this an entire run and you'll sweat n pant heavily at the bottom.
> 
> ...





poser said:


> Aggressive: getting low, getting after it, taking high G turns with no skidding. Confident and skilled decision making.


I strongly agree with both opinions.

I might be wrong but I feel all these are limited to the aspects of edge control and getting dynamic. 

Are there any other perspectives of snowboarding that can also be defined as parts of aggressiveness?


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## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

LALUNE said:


> Just try to get an idea of what your veteran shredder think, in order to set a bar and push myself as hard as possible. :grin:
> 
> Disclaimer: I think there's a fine line between aggressively vs recklessly.


Yup living on the razor's edge...beyond your comfort zone and a hair less than reckless.


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

I'm going to go with 2b and 3 from the Merrian-Webster dictionary:

Definition of 'aggressive'
1 a : tending toward or exhibiting aggression aggressive behavior
b : marked by combative readiness an aggressive fighter

2 a : marked by obtrusive energy and self-assertiveness a rude, aggressive personality
*b : marked by driving forceful energy or initiative* : enterprising an aggressive salesman

*3 : strong or emphatic in effect or intent*: aggressive colors aggressive flavors

4 : growing, developing, or spreading rapidly aggressive bone tumors

5 : more severe, intensive, or comprehensive than usual especially in dosage or extent aggressive chemotherapy

— aggressively adverb
— aggressiveness noun
— aggressivity noun

:nerd:   :nerd:


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## LALUNE (Feb 23, 2017)

F1EA said:


> I'm going to go with 2b and 3 from the Merrian-Webster dictionary:
> 
> Definition of 'aggressive'
> 1 a : tending toward or exhibiting aggression aggressive behavior
> ...


Take me back to school lol.


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

F1EA said:


> I'm going to go with 2b and 3 from the Merrian-Webster dictionary:
> 
> Definition of 'aggressive'
> 1 a : tending toward or exhibiting aggression aggressive behavior
> ...





LALUNE said:


> I might be wrong but I feel all these are limited to the aspects of edge control and getting dynamic.
> 
> Are there any other perspectives of snowboarding that can also be defined as parts of aggressiveness?





LALUNE said:


> Disclaimer: I think there's a fine line between aggressively vs recklessly.


Hmmm... I don't think that aggressive riding and recklessness go close together. It's more and/or. Like two seperate terms describing two separate distict attitudes of a rider.

As @F1EA nicely posted, the term "aggressive" per se has many colors... but if used together with riding, I agree with his take, I'd only use it in a positive way, i.e. an aggressive rider is forceful, pushing his limits, in a positive way. 

For a rider falling into the negative tinted 1a or 2a parts of the definition list, I'd rather use the term "reckless rider". 

A rider can be both; aggressive and reckless. Like, the guy who rides hard _and_ doesn't give a shit what's left or right and shoots past close to other ppl on the mtn, startle them, or in constant danger for a crash. That's recklessness (or dumbass-ness ). But if you ride hard _and_ mindful, watch for others, keep distance, you can ride very aggressively without the slightest tint of recklessness .


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## Kala (Mar 13, 2018)

Others covered it really well.

For me it always meant: low stance, bent knees, decisive carving turns ON the edge, dynamic shift from edge to edge (which may include a small jump-air which switching from edge to edge), significant tilting on each side of the turn, reserved and balanced upper body stance.


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

neni said:


> Hmmm... I don't think that aggressive riding and recklessness go close together. It's more and/or. Like two seperate terms describing two separate distict attitudes of a rider.
> 
> As @F1EA nicely posted, the term "aggressive" per se has many colors... but if used together with riding, I agree with his take, I'd only use it in a positive way, i.e. an aggressive rider is forceful, pushing his limits, in a positive way.
> 
> ...


Yes to this ^
Aggressiveness and recklessness are totally independent....

In a way, some aggressiveness is part of good technique; but it's also not equivalent. Although this overlaps a lot more than with recklessness.

Here's the epitome of an aggressive toeside turn, which is also incredibly smooth; and by one of the most spiritually passive guys:
https://www.instagram.com/p/BgW8az_gGgK/?hl=en&taken-by=nicolasmuellair

:3tens:
Beauty.


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## Damaged (Feb 23, 2013)

F1EA said:


> Yes to this ^
> Aggressiveness and recklessness are totally independent....
> 
> In a way, some aggressiveness is part of good technique; but it's also not equivalent. Although this overlaps a lot more than with recklessness.
> ...


I totally enjoyed watching that clip. love how his legs shift and move to kick up the powder.

Unfortunately, not everyone can ride powder like that everyday. If you want to see an aggressive rider in a resort, watch snowboarders who actually go to moguls to have fun (not the ones that accidentally took a wrong turn and were forced to go down them). Watch how they choose their lines and most importantly watch how their legs and upper body work together to make quick rapid turns. Watch how their body compresses and extends with every movement.


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

Damaged said:


> I totally enjoyed watching that clip. love how his legs shift and move to kick up the powder.
> 
> Unfortunately, not everyone can ride powder like that everyday. If you want to see an aggressive rider in a resort, watch snowboarders who actually go to moguls to have fun (not the ones that accidentally took a wrong turn and were forced to go down them). Watch how they choose their lines and most importantly watch how their legs and upper body work together to make quick rapid turns. Watch how their body compresses and extends with every movement.


Friends don't let friends ride moguls.


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## poser (Mar 7, 2018)

I would agree about moguls requiring aggression. Not very common to see snowboarders really handling moguls (or even on them at all), but those that do always get my respect. I make myself do them once I’m bored on groomer days when I’m solo (I usually can’t get anyone to do them with me). They definitely make you commit to your line. You’ll also usually have those runs to yourself since only a handful of skiers will take those lines.


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## LALUNE (Feb 23, 2017)

Damaged said:


> I totally enjoyed watching that clip. love how his legs shift and move to kick up the powder.
> 
> Unfortunately, not everyone can ride powder like that everyday. If you want to see an aggressive rider in a resort, watch snowboarders who actually go to moguls to have fun (not the ones that accidentally took a wrong turn and were forced to go down them). Watch how they choose their lines and most importantly watch how their legs and upper body work together to make quick rapid turns. Watch how their body compresses and extends with every movement.


I completely agree, moguls are super fun and they take a blend of techniques. Definitely a piece of art if doing right. 
I would say it sure can be counted as a type of aggressiveness, which is quite different from aggressively riding groomer though.



F1EA said:


> Friends don't let friends ride moguls.


If you are in a small resort (like us eastern coast riders) on a powdery day, everywhere will be moguled up after 2 pm, leaving us no choice but to make the best use it


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## speedjason (May 2, 2013)

Lean angle. Like riding a motorcycle, high speed, lean angle, switching back and forth.


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## speedjason (May 2, 2013)

F1EA said:


> Friends don't let friends ride moguls.


I enjoy some wide moguls, the tight ones are a pain in the ass but the wide ones are fun to pop from edge to edge.


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## poser (Mar 7, 2018)

LALUNE said:


> I completely agree, moguls are super fun and they take a blend of techniques. Definitely a piece of art if doing right.
> 
> I would say it sure can be counted as a type of aggressiveness, which is quite different from aggressively riding groomer though.
> 
> ...




I propose that aggressively riding groomers is the “easiest” form of “aggressiveness” to acquire. Aggressively riding moguls is considerably more difficult. Aggressively riding wind swept slopes, variable conditions with variable terrain is probably more difficult than moguls and aggressively riding “steep” (say, >40 degrees) is perhaps the most difficult especially when mixed with variable conditions and terrain. It’s difficult to assign an aggressiveness difficulty to powder riding because it is so variable unto itself. Sometimes it makes steep terrain much easier since it moderates your speed. Other times, it’s like being in a washer machine tossing you around. 
If you transition from any of the above to groomer, it’s instantly “easier” to be “aggressive” 

While there is certainly an aesthetic for groomer days and I’ll probably always enjoy that aspect somewhat, especially in social settings, I have found myself generally bored with groomed terrain and will generally eschew it for more difficult options if those options exist within reasonable conditions (i.e. not over icy because ice sucks no matter how aggressive you are).


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## Fielding (Feb 15, 2015)

Being aggressive means staying over your board when it gets steep. It means making carved turns instead of skidded or slarved turns on steeps when the snow is broken. It means being able to hold your speed and connect turns and moves from top to bottom. It means interacting with the terrain in a way that asserts dominance over it instead of just barely getting down it. Aggressiveness is not recklessness. It's controlled.


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## Fielding (Feb 15, 2015)

speedjason said:


> Lean angle. Like riding a motorcycle, high speed, lean angle, switching back and forth.


I agree but only if the angle we are talking about is the angle of the board with respect to the snow. Body angle lean is not aggressiveness. Many intermediates get stuck in their progression by leaning onto their back foot or leaning up the hill (without angulating their boards). That's the recipe for the classic heelside washout. Leaning your body in and of itself isn't always good.


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## Rip154 (Sep 23, 2017)

It's riding when you had a bad day and/or lots of coffee. Will pass after a few runs.


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

LALUNE said:


> moguls are super fun and they take a blend of techniques. Definitely a piece of art if doing right.


No.



LALUNE said:


> If you are in a small resort (like us eastern coast riders) on a powdery day, everywhere will be moguled up after 2 pm, leaving us no choice but to make the best use it


The way i see it, 2pm is a perfectly good time to head out... head to the bar... hit those sketchy access places with powder left... hit the park... Especially if it was a good powdery day. And assuming you got there early for said powdery day. If you didn't get there early on a powdery day.... well, you deserve those moguls.


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

Riding moguls is like.... showing up to party at Woodstock, after the show's over.


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

F1EA said:


> No.
> 
> 
> 
> The way i see it, 2pm is a perfectly good time to head out... head to the bar... hit those sketchy access places with powder left... hit the park... Especially if it was a good powdery day. And assuming you got there early for said powdery day. If you didn't get there early on a powdery day.... well, you deserve those moguls.


You snow snob, you


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## Fielding (Feb 15, 2015)

I dont like moguls. I’m glad that my mountains have them though. They’re like flypaper for a bunch of skiers who’d otherwise be jamming up the slopes I wanna be on.

I want to try attacking moguls on a soft or midflex board. Maybe with a rocker flat rocker base. I think that would be the right ride. When I’m riding strange places I typically (a trip least once per trip) end up stuck in the bumps on a stiff full camber 172. Or something equally wrong. Sucks bad. I’m talking about those little rutty shitty moguls. Not the head high Colorado ones that you can actually turn through.


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

neni said:


> You snow snob, you


>>>>>>


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## poser (Mar 7, 2018)

Fielding said:


> I dont like moguls. I’m glad that my mountains have them though. They’re like flypaper for a bunch of skiers who’d otherwise be jamming up the slopes I wanna be on.
> 
> 
> 
> I want to try attacking moguls on a soft or midflex board. Maybe with a rocker flat rocker base. I think that would be the right ride. When I’m riding strange places I typically (a trip least once per trip) end up stuck in the bumps on a stiff full camber 172. Or something equally wrong. Sucks bad. I’m talking about those little rutty shitty moguls. Not the head high Colorado ones that you can actually turn through.




The head high ones are interesting for sure. I’ve on got into them once so this season (likely do to a low snow year). It was strangely fun but I ate it head-over-heels style at least twice. They may be more akin to riding park style than conventional moguls.


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## ekb18c (Mar 11, 2013)

I don't mind riding moguls when they are soft but I usually try to flatten them out. lol


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## bazman (Jan 15, 2017)

ekb18c said:


> I don't mind riding moguls when they are soft but I usually try to flatten them out. lol


 like your style


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

ekb18c said:


> I don't mind riding moguls when they are soft but I usually try to flatten them out. lol


hahah
Everyone has to ride moguls every once in a while. But you can choose to do what's best for humanity


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## Fielding (Feb 15, 2015)

F1EA said:


> hahah
> Everyone has to ride moguls every once in a while. But you can choose to do what's best for humanity


FEEL like I should get paid for grooming when I flatten those stupid ruts. PLUS Im out there keeping the kiddies in line. I deserve a free season for life at least.


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## drblast (Feb 28, 2017)

I feel like moguls are the physical manifestation of skiers' fear of going fast in powder.


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## mojo maestro (Jan 6, 2009)

Moguls be moar forgiving..........and great practice........fer tight trees.............


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## Fielding (Feb 15, 2015)

drblast said:


> I feel like moguls are the physical manifestation of skiers' fear of going fast in powder.


The shape of their best turns is just shitty.


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

drblast said:


> I feel like moguls are the physical manifestation of skiers' fear of going fast in powder.





Fielding said:


> The shape of their best turns is just shitty.


This ^



mojo maestro said:


> Moguls be moar forgiving..........and great practice........fer tight trees.............


Yeah... training... practice... leg day..... whatever you want to call them.
Just not.... Fun... or Art.


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## Fielding (Feb 15, 2015)

When I was in 4th grade my PE teacher had a weird lisp. She taught us sex Ed. She would say “ peenish” instead of penis. That’s just how she said it. So in my mind that’s how I say it. Never out loud. But inside my brain it’s pronounced peenish. Peenish. Peenish. PEENISH!


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

Fielding said:


> When I was in 4th grade my PE teacher had a weird lisp. She taught us sex Ed. She would say “ peenish” instead of penis. That’s just how she said it. So in my mind that’s how I say it. Never out loud. But inside my brain it’s pronounced peenish. Peenish. Peenish. PEENISH!


So do you call them 'moogulsh' inside your brain?


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## poser (Mar 7, 2018)

I rode with a 64 year old snowboarder this past weekend. He started skiing in the 70s and switched to a snowboard in the 90s. Exceptional style and grace in his riding. I usually resort ride with guys who are about 10 years younger than me (in their early 30s). Most of them are highly experienced and backcountry/splitboarders. I’d certainly define their styles as “aggressive” as they really attack steep terrain with a hard charging, lean into the hill and make dynamic moves type of style. Riding that same terrain with this older guy, he approached it with pure style, grace and optimal line choice rather than “mosh pitting” his was through it. It was impressive. Since you tend to be influenced by the people you surround yourself with, I had definitely picked up this “mosh pit” style as of late. 

Anyway, we did a lot of moguls throughout the day. Again, he led with pure style and smooth turns through double black diamond, steep moguls. He said that he treats moguls and trees exactly the same. In fact, he mentally envisions trees growing out of each mogul. I tried this and it really changes your perception of moguls and the way you approach them. I enjoy the challenge of moguls (as expressed above) but I had really been “Karate monkeying” my way through them where you want more of a riding trees in powder type of approach.


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## SlvrDragon50 (Mar 25, 2017)

Our moguls are icy. No fun on a board. I tried riding more aggressive based on the suggestions in this thread and found it very helpful. Blue runs that I would normally coast through actually had my legs a little tired.


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## poser (Mar 7, 2018)

SlvrDragon50 said:


> Our moguls are icy. No fun on a board. I tried riding more aggressive based on the suggestions in this thread and found it very helpful. Blue runs that I would normally coast through actually had my legs a little tired.




Regardless of where you live, everyone that rides moguls deals with icy moguls.


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