# Aftermarket insoles or no insoles at all



## Grunky (Mar 21, 2019)

Hi everyone!
So my foot pain issue saga continues.

Quick recap:

last year boots qhich fitted perfectly, I can't wear them anymore.
New boots, fits perfectly when "testing" them like at home.
When walking with them on the mountain, waiting in the line, or riding, terrible foot pain un der the balls of the feet. When I say terrible, it's painfull as to almost induce vomiting
I tried insoles, Remind Medics, Superfeet Red Hots: no change
So a podiatrist: i have very high arch, so he added a paddind to my remind medics to get more support.
Removed them after one small run, the pain was worst.
Tried custom molded sidas winter pro insoles. Standing on them, so comfy. In my walking shoes, ultra comfy. In my snowboard boots, terrible. It was even more painfull than the paddind the podiatrist added. I had to stop in the middle of the run (small mountain where I am, like 700 meters high....) to remove the boots.
I then removed the insoles, and spent the session riding with no insoles, and that was f**** good! No pain! Like perfect. Except there was a little too much volume in the toe box. But no more foot pain.

So I guess the insoles I have are too stiff and I need more cushioning, like the liner. 
Do you know of insoles that would have strong cushioning?
Is there a problem not having insoles and riding directly in the liner? Won't it wear down quicker? If it's my solution, I'll ride without any insoles anymore....


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## WigMar (Mar 17, 2019)

Is there too little volume in the toebox? Maybe taking the insoles to a sander to remove thickness from the front half could help. I've even cut insoles in half so I've got arch support going into extra toe space. When I was 18, I rode without insoles in some Burton Rulers that didn't really fit me well. I don't think it was good for my foot health.


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## Pablo$ (Oct 10, 2020)

Get checked out for plantars fascitis, maybe? I have had the same issue.


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## Grunky (Mar 21, 2019)

WigMar said:


> Is there too little volume in the toebox? Maybe taking the insoles to a sander to remove thickness from the front half could help. I've even cut insoles in half so I've got arch support going into extra toe space. When I was 18, I rode without insoles in some Burton Rulers that didn't really fit me well. I don't think it was good for my foot health.


I don't think it's a toebox volume issue. I tried like 5 differents boots and had the same problem. The custom insole also is very thin, but very hard too. My feeling is I need something soft under my feet and not hard. That's why just with the liner it was good. But I don't think it's good for the liner itself. 



Pablo$ said:


> Get checked out for plantars fascitis, maybe? I have had the same issue.


I've already seen a podiatrist which didn't say anything about that. Shoud it have been seen if it was that? Maybe I could try to see another one...
How did you manage to get over it?


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## Pablo$ (Oct 10, 2020)

You know it's weird, it comes and goes, especially with weight fluctuations. The more weight I put on, the more it flares up. It seems also weirdly tied in with sciatica that I have from lower back issues. Once again the more weight I put on, the lower back issues persist.

I mean, I may be completely off. I'm not a podiatrist at all. But there are also a lot of homeopathic things you can do. And stretches that you can look up as if you had plantar fasciitis.


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## Pablo$ (Oct 10, 2020)

In addition: I started regularly snowboarding again this year after an on and off 15-year hiatus. I noticed with these new boots that I'm using, Burton Moto, I had instances of foot pain underneath the balls of my feet while waiting in a lift line. But after breaking them in after a couple days, the foot pain has ceased. I also threw in some Nike SB soles from some of my old dunks. I'm not sure if that's the answer, but like I said not as much foot pain now waiting in the lift line.


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## Grunky (Mar 21, 2019)

After looking in google, it doesn't seem it's plantar fascitis, since the pain is not in the arch or heel, but really in balls.But still, I'm not a doctor, neither google is.

Nike soles. That's an idea. I was looking for a soft insole, to not just sit in the liner. But didn't know what to try. Maybe I'll go check in a running shop or something like that, maybe they have softer insoles than snowboard or ski shops.


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## Oldman (Mar 7, 2012)

I am no expert, but from what you have described, I am suggesting you continue to "play" with various insole scenarios until you come up with what works for you. When you find the situation that works, run with it and enjoy. It matters not what is supposed to be "correct", it matters only what works for you.


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## Grunky (Mar 21, 2019)

Oldman said:


> I am no expert, but from what you have described, I am suggesting you continue to "play" with various insole scenarios until you come up with what works for you. When you find the situation that works, run with it and enjoy. It matters not what is supposed to be "correct", it matters only what works for you.


Yes, it was the idea. 
No insole works. I could just continue with no insole. Question is, won't it wear the liner faster? This things are quite expensive...


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

You can totally ride without the insoles.

Softer, cushy footbeds are right in front of you but you're looking in the worng places. Go to walmart or whatever and buy something simple like Dr Scholls, or just use some of your own shoes' insoles. But... no insoles in your liners is also fine.


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## Grunky (Mar 21, 2019)

Thanks for the idea! I was looking for sports products. I can try that


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

Grunky said:


> Yes, it was the idea.
> No insole works. I could just continue with no insole. Question is, won't it wear the liner faster? This things are quite expensive...


Not using insoles does not wear out the liner any faster. At worst, your feet may get a bit sweatier because the liner doesnt have wicking fabric. You can either deal with it, or just put in the footbed from a regular shoe in your closet.

I also have high arches and sometimes experience the pain you're referring to... i use Superfeet green. Alternatively, nice cushy footbeds are good but they raise my foot too much and then i get cutoff circulation from pressuring the top veins.

I literally have a box full of insoles to swap, change, try, experiment, etc.


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## Radialhead (Jan 3, 2018)

Pablo$ said:


> I mean, I may be completely off. I'm not a podiatrist at all. But there are also a lot of homeopathic things you can do.


None that will make any difference to anything other than your bank account.


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

Do you have that pain only in snowboardboots snowboarding or also running, walking in other shoes, during other sports?

Do you have splay feet?

I had a 30y long foot pain odyssey due to Morton's neuroma, which was worst - and first apparent - in snowboard boots, and I had similar impressions as you, that no insole is better, for some time, but over the years got so bad that I couldn't properly walk in normal life anymore. 

If Google tells you your pain fits the Morton neuroma description, then see a foot specialist to get it sorted out early (it starts with customized orthopedic insoles), before it becomes a chronic inflammation as with my foot (which had to be fixed with surgery, i.e. amputation of this nerve).

If it's not nerve pain you experience, it could be that the pain is caused by sensitive metatarsal bone heads. Something soft, like a gel pad under the balls could help. Dunno of they exist for men, but for women such gel pads are sold in pharmacies.


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

neni said:


> Do you have that pain only in snowboardboots snowboarding or also running, walking in other shoes, during other sports?
> 
> Do you have splay feet?
> 
> ...


Yeah those cheap/basic insoles typically have gel inserts in the heel and ball.

Man when i saw your first thread about neuroma i was like W....T... F....  cause neuroma sounds like brain cancer. Phew. Lol

Anyways... high arched people tend to feel pain in the ball of the feet. To me it feels like getting electrocuted from the ball of the feet. My best solution have been the Superfeet green. Supports my whole foot, distributing the load over the full foot instead of focusing on heel and ball.

I also use the Superfeet Blue which is a bit lower arch and quite thinner (it's almost like no footbed except for support); when the green push the foot to high and chokes circulation. The Greens are relatively stiff foam, so you'd think they'll be terrible... but it's the opposite... you feel like standing on nothing at all.

So basically, just try a bunch of footbeds and go with what's best. There are no rules to feets and boots.


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## Grunky (Mar 21, 2019)

neni said:


> ...


 I've read some of your posts about it. This is why I went to a podiatrist because I was afraid of that, but no. Maybe I should see another one, but no just very high arch. 



F1EA said:


> I also use the Superfeet Blue which is a bit lower arch and quite thinner (it's almost like no footbed except for support); when the green push the foot to high and chokes circulation. The Greens are relatively stiff foam, so you'd think they'll be terrible... but it's the opposite... you feel like standing on nothing at all.


I'll give a try to superfeet green then! Thanks!
As you, I'll have a box full of footbeds.... Already have 5 differents...


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## drblast (Feb 28, 2017)

Remind Cush is thicker and more spongy than the Medics, but I'm betting the problem you're experiencing has nothing to do with the cushion of the footbeds.


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## Grunky (Mar 21, 2019)

drblast said:


> Remind Cush is thicker and more spongy than the Medics, but I'm betting the problem you're experiencing has nothing to do with the cushion of the footbeds.


Thanks, what's your bet then?


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## Kijima (Mar 3, 2019)

I had custom insoles made for my feet a few years ago and the pain they caused me was off the charts. 
The worst $200 I ever spent.


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## Grunky (Mar 21, 2019)

@Kijima I feel you.... I spent 160$ for using them 5 min ...


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## drblast (Feb 28, 2017)

Grunky said:


> Thanks, what's your bet then?


I have no idea. I can play detective and guess though.

1. You feel better with no insole = lack of cushion isn't causing the pain. Gotta be something else.
2. Seems like a common thread is that as you insert more things the pain gets worse. (Man if I had a nickel...) Sounds like there is not enough room for your foot and it's either causing you to bend your feet unnaturally or you're cutting off circulation.
3. It's early season. Sometimes things just hurt for a few days because you haven't been in boots all summer.
4. Nobody asked about your old boots. Sounds like they fit great without this issue. Did you change brands or models? Is it possible you're just in boots that fit poorly?


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## bob2356 (Jul 13, 2012)

If you took out the insoles and the pain went away then there was clearly a volume issue. Sometimes the problem isn't where you think.

I don/t see any reference any where in this thread about seeing a high quality boot fitter. Most deal in ski boots but there are guys out there that do snowboard boots. Word of mouth is usually the best. I have very high arches, pronation, and a really wide foot. A combination that is almost unheard of so I know all about getting a boot fitter to work it out. A good boot fitter can identify the problems and work out solutions


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## Grunky (Mar 21, 2019)

drblast said:


> 2. Seems like a common thread is that as you insert more things the pain gets worse. (Man if I had a nickel...) Sounds like there is not enough room for your foot and it's either causing you to bend your feet unnaturally or you're cutting off circulation.
> 3. It's early season. Sometimes things just hurt for a few days because you haven't been in boots all summer.
> 4. Nobody asked about your old boots. Sounds like they fit great without this issue. Did you change brands or models? Is it possible you're just in boots that fit poorly?


2 - Maybe, but it really doesn't feel like I have not enough room. I don't feel like i'm crushed inside. 
3 - It's not the same kind of pain. When riding without insoles, I feel my foot muscles work, stretch... With insoles it's like someone is stabbing me, the worst pain I ever felt.
4 - My old boots fit perfectly last year, this year I can't even put them on more than 5 minutes at home without tightening them.



bob2356 said:


> If you took out the insoles and the pain went away then there was clearly a volume issue. Sometimes the problem isn't where you think.
> ...


Maybe volume issue. But I tried several boots and had the same problem each time with every boots.
If I could find a decent bootfitter in my area, I'll go and pay, I really have no problem with that. I went to all the shops in my area, and all they proposed was heatmolding with a toe cap. 

Today I tried Superfeet Carbon. Seems to be the thinner insoles from superfeet. Same problem. Had to remove them to ride. 
While removing them, my friend noticed that all the insoles I have tested have the heel higher than the ball of the foot. Could it be the problem? Maybe it transfers to much weight on my forefoot?
Still searching....


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## drblast (Feb 28, 2017)

At this point I'd figure out why your old boots don't hurt. Maybe try the insoles from the old boots.


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## Grunky (Mar 21, 2019)

Maybe I wasn't clear, sorry English is not my first language. 
Last year my boots fitted perfectly. Very snug, but good, no problem with them. But this year I can't put them. After 5 mins my feets feel like crushed. This is why I tried other boots. I even tried the same model, same year, same size, new, it was really too tight. There I felt volume issue directly. I felt really crushed again.

On the new boots, I really don't feel crushed. I feel I have space (not too much to bang my toes, but like normal for snowboard shoes), the pain is directly on the balls of the foot, like it's the only support for all my body weight. 

PS: my feet sizes were checked with wiredsports, so not a sizing issue.


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## Radialhead (Jan 3, 2018)

Grunky said:


> the pain is directly on the balls of the foot, like it's the only support for all my body weight.


Sounds like you just need to experiment with some modifications. If the pain's directly on the balls of your feet, try removing pressure from that specific area by cutting a chunk out of the footbed, or making something like a stiff foam doughnut to go around the balls of your feet to relieve the pressure a bit.


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

Grunky said:


> Maybe I wasn't clear, sorry English is not my first language.
> Last year my boots fitted perfectly. Very snug, but good, no problem with them. But this year I can't put them. After 5 mins my feets feel like crushed. This is why I tried other boots. I even tried the same model, same year, same size, new, it was really too tight. There I felt volume issue directly. I felt really crushed again.
> 
> On the new boots, I really don't feel crushed. I feel I have space (not too much to bang my toes, but like normal for snowboard shoes), the pain is directly on the balls of the foot, like it's the only support for all my body weight.
> ...


Im going through the same lol

Got New boots last season. Wore them a few days. Perfect.

Had my older boots. They were even better than perfect. But a bit too stiff.

Fwd to this yr. 
The new boots crush my feet and cutoff circulation.
The older boots/liners crush my toes from the front. Wore those twice this seas, killed my toes and I may lose a nail from it.

I'm trying my half size bigger older boots next. Those might be fine.


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## drblast (Feb 28, 2017)

When I was in the Navy, I had to stand in steel toed boots on a steel surface for 5-8 hours at a time. That doesn't sound physically demanding but when a ship is moving you're constantly reacting just to keep your balance. It's a lot like snowboarding in that regard. I experienced the same thing being in a band that would play long sets where I'd stand in the same spot on stage.

In both of those cases, over-the-counter gel footbeds that you could buy for $12 really helped. They're just a flat and thin piece of gel with zero arch support or contour to them. At one point I'd put two of those in each boot. Maybe that's the simple (and cheap!) solution you need.


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

drblast said:


> When I was in the Navy, I had to stand in steel toed boots on a steel surface for 5-8 hours at a time. That doesn't sound physically demanding but when a ship is moving you're constantly reacting just to keep your balance. It's a lot like snowboarding in that regard. I experienced the same thing being in a band that would play long sets where I'd stand in the same spot on stage.
> 
> In both of those cases, over-the-counter gel footbeds that you could buy for $12 really helped. They're just a flat and thin piece of gel with zero arch support or contour to them. At one point I'd put two of those in each boot. Maybe that's the simple (and cheap!) solution you need.


Yeah. I played guitar and it's the same. After years of playing guitar you can shred all day erryday. After a long pause, your fingers bleed even after a mild session.

And actually, because of this thread i tried my older US11 ThirtyTwo Prime with the custom liner that's too tight on the 2 boots i wore without pain last season and... perfect. Haha

Even pressure. Toes mildly pressing the liner. No heel lift. Gonna ride the US11 until my feet get used to the pains of snowboarding again, then switch to the 10.5 in a month or so.

If i went into a shop today... i would buy the US11 even though my feet measure 28.3 and 28.2 cm. Same as last yr... the 10.5 were way too tight on their stock liners i had to work some magic for them to fit. This season, that magic is gone lol. Nothing works.


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## Grunky (Mar 21, 2019)

drblast said:


> In both of those cases, over-the-counter gel footbeds that you could buy for $12 really helped. They're just a flat and thin piece of gel with zero arch support or contour to them. At one point I'd put two of those in each boot. Maybe that's the simple (and cheap!) solution you need.


This was my next try. I ordered some on Amazon, waiting to receive them to make the test.


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## start_today (Mar 17, 2020)

Also having similar issue with “boots were GREAT last year, and kinda hurt this year.” I wonder how much 6 to 9 months of doing very little and never wearing shoes made my feet spread a bit. 

Usually I’m in hockey skates three to five days week, plus shoes for work or going out, but none of that this summer. Flip flops or nothing all the time. Not even wearing sneakers. I am hoping wearing shoes and tying my sneakers helps. My snowboard boots started feeling a little better, days five and six were noticeably more comfortable, so maybe for me it’s just more time in structured boots. 

I bought some Remind Medics, but I’m gun shy about cutting them to fit and being out $40 if they take up too much volume.


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## ridethecliche (Feb 27, 2019)

F1EA said:


> Im going through the same lol
> 
> Got New boots last season. Wore them a few days. Perfect.
> 
> ...


Ugh not you too...


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## NerdSnowboards (Nov 12, 2020)

Generally most custom foot beds are only as good as the person making them and their understanding of your issues.


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

ridethecliche said:


> Ugh not you too...


Yup. Heat-molded the 10.5 liner again (not the stock liner) rode a long day today and almost perfect. Felt a little bit of cutoff circulation, but not bad. Looks like it's ready.

Had the US11 boots in the car just in case.

The price was 12days on the mountain, 3 heat-molds and 1 toenail. Oh and having 3 boots and extra liners. Not cheap.


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## Grunky (Mar 21, 2019)

Ok so today I tried gel basic insoles from Kiwi. So just a basic gel insole, with no support, or anything. 

It was so much better!!!!
No more pain in the balls of the feet. Only a little pain in the heel, but like low muscular pain. So Like my heel muscle are not used to have weight on them, so that's ok, it just needs time.

Tomorrow I'll test another basic flat foam insole, just to see which one is better.

I'll then just have to adjust the j-bars and it will be perfect!


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## ridethecliche (Feb 27, 2019)

F1EA said:


> Yup. Heat-molded the 10.5 liner again (not the stock liner) rode a long day today and almost perfect. Felt a little bit of cutoff circulation, but not bad. Looks like it's ready.
> 
> Had the US11 boots in the car just in case.
> 
> The price was 12days on the mountain, 3 heat-molds and 1 toenail. Oh and having 3 boots and extra liners. Not cheap.



Yeah, I posted this elsewhere as well. I'm going to try out the thraxis and if the boa bothers my ankle like I think it might, I'm just going to order the lassos and call it a day.


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

Grunky said:


> Ok so today I tried gel basic insoles from Kiwi. So just a basic gel insole, with no support, or anything.
> 
> It was so much better!!!!
> No more pain in the balls of the feet. Only a little pain in the heel, but like low muscular pain. So Like my heel muscle are not used to have weight on them, so that's ok, it just needs time.
> ...


That's great. Jbars, Cbars, etc is a piece of cake compared to nerve pains or foot crushing, etc. 👌


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## Grunky (Mar 21, 2019)

Yes, so I tried the basic flat foam insole, and it was not as bad as other insoles, but not as good as the gel ones, so I got back to the gel ones. 
So a little tweaking on Jbars size and placement and everything seems good. Had fun for the first time today even if the conditions are trash here


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## AC93 (May 1, 2020)

I bought the Vans Hi standards last season and I hated the insole in the boot. I got way too much foot pain from them while riding. Then i bought aftermarket insoles, love the boots now!


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## Seppuccu (Dec 4, 2012)

Can I join the club too?  

EEE front feet but normal heels (i.e. platypus footed), collapsed front foot arches, high arches, high instep, skinny ankles, Morton's Toe on right foot, but either Morton's neuroma or metatarsalgia on left (leading) foot. More or less constant tingling sensation and soreness in the ball of my left foot, turning to numbing sensation in 4th toe when riding, turning to searing pain in the middle of the ball in less than 2 hours.Heat molding, getting custom footbeds, swithing to EEE boots, switching bindings, even molding an orthotic pad into the custom footbed hasn't helped. Today I've been jerking around with heel wedges, which didn't help either. But this thread has given me some new ideas. Tried removing the footbed and it might have helped in some way but it worsens the soreness. So I'm order a bunch of low profile, soft footbeds now and see where that takes me...

...and if none of that helps I'm gonna start cutting the liner, neni style...

...and if that doesn't help then fuck me, but I'm getting hardboots with foam moldable liners.


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

Seppuccu said:


> Can I join the club too?
> 
> EEE front feet but normal heels (i.e. platypus footed), collapsed front foot arches, high arches, high instep, skinny ankles, Morton's Toe on right foot, but either Morton's neuroma or metatarsalgia on left (leading) foot. More or less constant tingling sensation and soreness in the ball of my left foot, ...


Aiii... this sounds so familiar 😞. Have you seen a foot specialist? I avoided Mortons neuroma surgery for years, endured all the chronic pain and numbening for too long a time but recently decided it's time to do the cut... and I'm soooo glad I did. It's a new life to walk, hike, ride without pain. Now I ask myself, why I didn't do it earlier, lol. So.. if it's morton neuroma, get it treated. See a foot specialist. Life's too short to constantly ride in pain if it's treatable.


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## Seppuccu (Dec 4, 2012)

neni said:


> Aiii... this sounds so familiar 😞. Have you seen a foot specialist? I avoided Mortons neuroma surgery for years, endured all the chronic pain and numbening for too long a time but recently decided it's time to do the cut... and I'm soooo glad I did. It's a new life to walk, hike, ride without pain. Now I ask myself, why I didn't do it earlier, lol. So.. if it's morton neuroma, get it treated. See a foot specialist. Life's too short to constantly ride in pain if it's treatable.


Cheers neni. Agreed. Specialist - sort of. I was aiming to get remitted to get orthopaedic insoles but was turned down by the physiotherapist, because they've become very restrictive with remitting for that. I've gotten some exercises, which have improved the pain somewhat, but it's still bad. I'm considering seeing a real foot specialist, but to be honest the healthcare system here in Sweden is rather opaque and I'm a bit at loss where to look.

I'm just back from four days of mellow riding (2x1hr/day) and it's been ok. What I ended up doing was putting back the stock insole in my left boot, and I've also added some 3M foam over the tongue of the liner, and also some over the front foot around the instep bone to redistribute pressure.

Considering the life situation I'm in currently (father of a toddler and an infant, living in the Deep South Flatlands) I'm lucky if I get 10 mellow days in a season over the next few years, so I guess the situation is meh but endurable for now, if I don't find a good specialist that is.

End rant.


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