# Extended Column Test



## snowvols (Apr 16, 2008)

My go to test is the ECT for sure. Here is a video a fellow splitter posted on the UAC site from earlier this year.


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## AcroPhile (Dec 3, 2010)

As always, a wealth of knowledge from killclimbz. This actually looks pretty fun. Sorry for the ignorance, but what other kinds of tests are there?


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## Sick-Pow (May 5, 2008)

Bruce Tremper is the man.

Now all we need is some more snow for my quarterly practice session.


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## snowvols (Apr 16, 2008)

Sick-Pow said:


> Bruce Tremper is the man.
> 
> Now all we need is some more snow for my quarterly practice session.


He is the man, but that isn't Bruce.

Just someone that rides here in Utah doesn't work for the UAC. Posted this in an observation.

There are tons of tests. The Regular Column test, Rutschblock test, hand shear, shovel shear (Not sure if that's the correct name, ski pole test, also as a last measure a ski cut.


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## ShredLife (Feb 6, 2010)

good vids, great test. one thing that bothers me in the vids is how these guys keep referring to faceted layers/hoar frost/propagations/etc. as 'nice' 'great' 'sweet' whatever. they are none of that. they're nasty, shitty, scary, deadly, etc... other than that - good shit.


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## oneshot (Oct 8, 2010)

good video's and tips! we in the NW don't get to many funky layers.. but the HOAR can exist.


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## killclimbz (Aug 10, 2007)

AcroPhile said:


> As always, a wealth of knowledge from killclimbz. This actually looks pretty fun. Sorry for the ignorance, but what other kinds of tests are there?


We'll teach ya a bunch of tests at the on snow for FOBP this February!


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## killclimbz (Aug 10, 2007)

oneshot said:


> good video's and tips! we in the NW don't get to many funky layers.. but the HOAR can exist.


Yeah, for sure. I am amazed at the stability in the PNW. When it goes though, it sure seems to like to go big. Still, I think there are times when you get a persistent weak layer, especially around storm cycles. It would be interesting to give this a try during times of instability in your region and see how it works for you. 

Shred,

I hear ya. It's a conundrum for sure.


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## Sick-Pow (May 5, 2008)

AcroPhile said:


> As always, a wealth of knowledge from killclimbz. This actually looks pretty fun. Sorry for the ignorance, but what other kinds of tests are there?


Check out some books on it.

Bruce Tremper wrote the bible.


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## AcroPhile (Dec 3, 2010)

Kill, Can't wait! I have been just itching to get out there, February is going to be a long long wait. For right now I'm just trying to soak up as much information as I can from the internet. Sick-Pow, thanks for the recommendation. Definitely will do. It's going to be good to get some hard-copy literature on the subject.


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## killclimbz (Aug 10, 2007)

Sick-Pow said:


> Check out some books on it.
> 
> Bruce Tremper wrote the bible.


Staying Alive in Avalanche Terrain by Bruce Tremper is a gold standard. Great read, just finished reading it for the 6th time this year. 

LaChappelle wrote the bible, Tremper has done a great job refining it. 

If you can get a copy, I highly recommend picking up Snow Weather Avalanche Guidelines, otherwise known as SWAG. You can download it by sections from the Forest Service Website here. Tremper, Greene, Pritchard, and many other top guys participated in it's creation and it's pretty awesome.


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## AcroPhile (Dec 3, 2010)

killclimbz said:


> Staying Alive in Avalanche Terrain by Bruce Tremper is a gold standard. Great read, just finished reading it for the 6th time this year.
> 
> LaChappelle wrote the bible, Tremper has done a great job refining it.
> 
> If you can get a copy, I highly recommend picking up Snow Weather Avalanche Guidelines, otherwise known as SWAG. You can download it by sections from the Forest Service Website here. Tremper, Greene, Pritchard, and many other top guys participated in it's creation and it's pretty awesome.


Is this something Tattered Cover would have or do I need to go to a specialty shop to find these books?


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## killclimbz (Aug 10, 2007)

The Tattered Cover might have Staying Alive. I wouldn't be surprised. If they don't. Check out the Wilderness Exchange and REI in Denver. The Bentgate in Golden is another shop that would probably have it. You can also find it on Amazon. 

As far as SWAG goes, no where sells it that I know of. They give it out at Level II classes, and I am not sure about Level I's as it didn't exist when I took mine. Worth you time to download it from the Forest Service site.

Another good book is the Avalanche handbook 2nd edition. It's the actual "bible" for avalanche safety. It's also pretty boring at times. The closest analogy to the book is it's the avalanche equivalent of Freedom of the Hills for Climbers. It's a great reference book and is worth having on your shelf if backcountry riding becomes something you do on a regular basis.


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## hikeswithdogs (Sep 23, 2011)

ECT is now at least the continent wide standard, not sure why anyone would use anything else.


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## killclimbz (Aug 10, 2007)

I like the rutchsblock too, but I can set up and do 2 or 3 ECT's in different spots versus one Rutchsblock in one spot. Since spatial variability is such a big thing, the ECT has really taken over for me in that regard.


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## snowvols (Apr 16, 2008)

The worst thing for me about a Rutchsblock though is if you have a nasty crust and trying to get your rope to go through it. You will use more energy sawing away with a rope with knots than you did skinning 2K vert.


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## killclimbz (Aug 10, 2007)

snowvols said:


> The worst thing for me about a Rutchsblock though is if you have a nasty crust and trying to get your rope to go through it. You will use more energy sawing away with a rope with knots than you did skinning 2K vert.


That's pretty funny!

I have a G3 Rutchsblock cord that I use. I have never had too much of a problem with that. Though now a days since I don't do the RB test all that much, I usually get away with just using my snow saw.


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## hikeswithdogs (Sep 23, 2011)

Honestly I feel more comfortable taking 2-3 real quick ECTs throughout the day(in the exact areas I’m in) rather than spend an hour+ doing snow pack analysis one place which might give me false data and lead me astray later in the day, of course I’d always just assume the worst and not the other way around.

As someone who’s very new to this I’m trying to really focus on paying the most attention to the Utah avalanche center’s info\forecast in combination with slope angle and aspect\terrain\route choice instead of complex snow pack analysis which for the time being I can leave up to the professionals at the UAC.


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## killclimbz (Aug 10, 2007)

A full snow pit profile takes a good amount of time, and is more geared for painting an overall picture. It is not something I would use for slope analysis. For trends and slopes/aspects you want might want to avoid or pay closer attention to, yes. 

The quicker you can do pit work, the more likely you are to do it. To be honest, if I feel that sketched out, that I want to do numerous pits, I'm probably just going to go conservative instead. There will always be another day.


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## hikeswithdogs (Sep 23, 2011)

killclimbz said:


> To be honest, if I feel that sketched out, that I want to do numerous pits, I'm probably just going to go conservative instead. There will always be another day.


but don't you think you would get drastically different ECT results based on altitude and slope aspect? 

I'm not necessary talking about a full snow pit\ECT test but even a ski pole test where you just spot check skinning up or coming down looking for extremely weak layers based on resistance to pressure.

I'm legitimately asking here because I'm still trying to wrap my head around all of it.


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## killclimbz (Aug 10, 2007)

I have gotten drastically different ECT results in pits less than 20ft apart on the same aspect. Does that make sense?

Of course snow is going to be a completely different animal on a Southwest facing slope compared to a Northeast facing slope. It'll be different snow at 6k ft versus 10k ft for sure. Observational data as you are skinning, hiking, is huge. Recent avalanche activity, shooting cracks, whumpfing, feeling layers with your ski poles, getting off the skin track onto small wind pillows, seeing if you can get a reaction, that type of stuff. When I start talking "spatial variability" I am usually talking about the slope, aspect, that I am considering. That immediate area. Ideally, you could dig a couple of pits, check out the snow, for the full range of the slope you are planning on hitting. The reality is, unless you are hiking up said slope, you can't. So you have to pay attention to all the other clues. Like the recent activity, snow fall, winds, temperature, in addition to you snow pit tests on a given slope. Terrain management when you are riding down is key too. If you are riding a wide open 35 degree slope and there is a lone tree in the middle, do you want to ride close to that tree? Probably not. Picking safe zones, riding ridges where stuff if it breaks will break below you, everything you do when you're riding, you want to keep safety in front of your mind.


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## hikeswithdogs (Sep 23, 2011)

killclimbz said:


> I have gotten drastically different ECT results in pits less than 20ft apart on the same aspect. Does that make sense?
> 
> Of course snow is going to be a completely different animal on a Southwest facing slope compared to a Northeast facing slope. It'll be different snow at 6k ft versus 10k ft for sure. Observational data as you are skinning, hiking, is huge. Recent avalanche activity, shooting cracks, whumpfing, feeling layers with your ski poles, getting off the skin track onto small wind pillows, seeing if you can get a reaction, that type of stuff. When I start talking "spatial variability" I am usually talking about the slope, aspect, that I am considering. That immediate area. Ideally, you could dig a couple of pits, check out the snow, for the full range of the slope you are planning on hitting. The reality is, unless you are hiking up said slope, you can't. So you have to pay attention to all the other clues. Like the recent activity, snow fall, winds, temperature, in addition to you snow pit tests on a given slope. Terrain management when you are riding down is key too. If you are riding a wide open 35 degree slope and there is a lone tree in the middle, do you want to ride close to that tree? Probably not. Picking safe zones, riding ridges where stuff if it breaks will break below you, everything you do when you're riding, you want to keep safety in front of your mind.



Good to hear! Everything you just said jives with what I've been taught and was thinking. And no I would avoid that sad little lone tree because it sounds more like avy trigger point than a legit anchor or safe zone


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