# boots for flat feet



## BurtonAvenger (Aug 14, 2007)

You need new boots and footbeds custom built for your snowboard boots. Chiropractors make them to correct daily walking issues not snowboarding issues.


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## bseracka (Nov 14, 2011)

I don't believe there are any boots designed for flat feet. Most people go with insoles, or orthotics. Traditionally boot insole from the mfg are garbage. Contact a local boot fitter and they should be able to direct you to an podiatrist that specializes in orthotics for boots.


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## Jason (Feb 15, 2011)

I have flat feet and had the same problem. Tried superfeet insoles and it help bit still had pain. Then I tried SOLE thin sports and it got rid of 99% of my foot pain. 

SOLE Thin Sport Footbed,Gray,Men's 10 M / Women's 12 M
Amazon.com: SOLE Thin Sport Footbed,Gray,Men's 10 M / Women's 12 M: Health & Personal Care


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## jml22 (Apr 10, 2012)

You could also just skip the orthotics and train the muscles in your foot.
You won't rebuild the arch but you'll have a lot more endurance in your feet/better balance/agility and all that good stuff


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## tanscrazydaisy (Mar 11, 2013)

BurtonAvenger said:


> You need new boots and footbeds custom built for your snowboard boots. Chiropractors make them to correct daily walking issues not snowboarding issues.


Chiropractors don't do that

Podiatrists correct walking issues

Podiatrists have pedorthist make orthotics from them

Some of the best boot fitters are also pedorthists, as they can make a footbed in-house.


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## Sudden_Death (Mar 23, 2011)

Baigle said:


> Seems like my feet are killing me every time I ride and causing me to stop for a break every hundred feet since the pain is unbearable. I always had pain but usually ignored it but this year it has gotten way worse
> 
> I have flat feet and I believe my benefits are giving me a free new set of orthodics this year so I am wondering what the best way to fix my feet problem would be?
> 
> ...


I think Dinardos Skis and Wheels in Bells Corners has a boot fitter, try Kunstadt Sports in the Glebe too as I think they work with one as well. Quite possibly the same guy.He mainly does ski boots but can likely help you. And if not at least point you to someone who could.


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## jtg (Dec 11, 2012)

Be careful about taking advice for this that costs money. I've heard and tried everything. Most people post that they did some simple thing X and their problems went away. So far, that hasn't worked for me. I've seen several bootfitters at the top of their game and gone through 2 pairs of insoles (superfeet, sole, etc), 2 pairs of custom footbeds (the expensive ones, $150+). Two pairs of boots, two pairs of bindings...still pain for much of the day. Generally for me, the latter half of the day it becomes bearable and I don't have to take breaks so often. Sometimes I get a bad day and it's pain all day. Rarely, I'll get a good day that I can go most of the day without it being too bad.

FWIW, there are two types of flat feet. Rigid, and flexible. From what I understand, flexible flat feet is easier to solve. Mine are rigid, and yours probably are as well from the sounds of it.

The only thing I had not yet tried was the $400 orthotics from a podiatrist. I was about to do that this week or next, to prepare for next season. Last time I saw one, that was the only suggestion they had. If your experience is any indication, it sounds like that would have been wasted...


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## Deacon (Mar 2, 2013)

If your feet are that rigid, I'd look into some physical therapy to improve bone mobility. I had to do a crapload of that after I broke my leg in '03 and again after I snapped my Achilles in '10. You would be surprised at how little range of motion most people have in their feet compared to what they should have. Often times several sections are completely seized...


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## BurtonAvenger (Aug 14, 2007)

tanscrazydaisy said:


> Chiropractors don't do that
> 
> Podiatrists correct walking issues
> 
> ...


Pretty sure I went through years of custom built footbeds from my chiropractor. 

I'm a boot fitter his issues aren't going to be addressed by a bunch of half assed answers from people on a forum. He needs to go try on some boots and find a fitter that is willing to work with him and the boots.


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## jtg (Dec 11, 2012)

^Nope, that won't do shit other than waste money, I promise. 

And yeah, chiropractors aren't qualified to treat feet issues...or anything else really.

Edit: Not implying bootfitters don't do shit, I have met many very good ones, just that there are certain problems that they can't solve. What works great for relatively normal feet can still be completely ineffective for certain types of problematic feet. 

I don't have any solutions, just want to save you some money, having already spent a lot going down this road myself.

OP, see a previous thread for some background:

http://www.snowboardingforum.com/boots/54802-pleading-help-expert-boot-fitter-anyone.html


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## Jibfreak (Jul 16, 2009)

I have super flat feet and used to have TERRIBLE foot pain when riding. So bad that I would have to stop unstrap and chill for a bit until I was able to ride again.

My solution was to remove the footbeds that come with my boots. Totally fixed my foot pains and didn't cost me a penny. I do this every time I get a new pair of boots and it's been basically pain free riding ever since.


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## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

Just buy Adidas boots. Done.


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## jtg (Dec 11, 2012)

Jibfreak said:


> I have super flat feet and used to have TERRIBLE foot pain when riding. So bad that I would have to stop unstrap and chill for a bit until I was able to ride again.
> 
> My solution was to remove the footbeds that come with my boots. Totally fixed my foot pains and didn't cost me a penny. I do this every time I get a new pair of boots and it's been basically pain free riding ever since.


What the...you ride with NO footbeds at all? :blink:


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## jml22 (Apr 10, 2012)

Chiropractors are allowed to treat feet and certain people who specialize it are VERY good at it.
In washington state, chiropractors are not allowed to do a lot of things and have to be spine focused. Everywhere else they can do what they want for musculoskeletal problems.

Your problem is not that you have flat feet, as there are 100000000 people who have flat feet and absolutely no problems. It can be a contributing factor to your biomechanics but it's mainly that you need conditioning somewhere and improved biomechanics.
Ankle dorsiflexion is a great place to start as well as endurance. training/proprioceptive training for the feet. The problem is most people want to focus on static positions when training these things. There needs to be movement incorporated into rehabilitation.


Common problems i see with riders / feet problems.... they're pressuring there ankles and tippy toeing inside the boot wayyyyy too much. Let your ankles be heavy when you're pressuring your toe edge and get your butt low when you're pressuring your heal edge. 
Tippy toeing will contract foot flexors and 99% of people they will not be in shape enough to do this for long periods of time. Maybe bare foot runners are the only people who can handle this over the course of a few hours.

Now how does ankle dorsiflexion play into this? When you cant dorsiflexion your ankles you can't squat properly and you have to cheat to get low to the ground. So when you're supposed to be using leverage you're trying to physically push the board back and forth with your feet, which ends up fatiguing muscles thus causing them to scream at you to stop.


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## Ocho (Mar 13, 2011)

tanscrazydaisy said:


> Chiropractors don't do that


Yes, they do.

Had my last pair of orthodics from one of my former chiros. My current DC does orthodics as well.



jtg said:


> And yeah, chiropractors aren't qualified to treat feet issues...or anything else really.


False. See below.



jml22 said:


> Chiropractors are allowed to treat feet and certain people who specialize it are VERY good at it.


Very true. 

Look for a CCEP (Certified Chiropractic Extremity Practitioner). Feet are an extremity. My DC is a CCEP. My feet have been happy.


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## jml22 (Apr 10, 2012)

Eatridesleep
Washington state has a very narrow scope for Chiro.... Pretty much spine only and historically relevant chiropractic. That's probably why he said what he said. In most states people people are VERY good at what they specialize in.


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## Jibfreak (Jul 16, 2009)

jtg said:


> What the...you ride with NO footbeds at all? :blink:


Yep, just the boot liners. Nuts right? Been doing it for the last 3 seasons now and went from excruciating pain to total comfort.


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## Ocho (Mar 13, 2011)

Ah, good point. I've heard some states are like that unfortunately.

Also unfortunate is that there are far more chiros who leave much to be desired than those who are solid. I've a solid one now (having had experience with six). My guy is good.


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## jtg (Dec 11, 2012)

Well no, the reason I said that is because although chiropractors are _allowed_ to do that, it doesn't mean they are qualified to. Chiropractic is unsubstantiated quack medicine and pseudoscience, and there is no basis for anything they do. It's like accupuncture and homeopathy. You should just go to real doctors, or at least a pedorthist. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chiropractic_controversy_and_criticism

Anybody who has been seeing one is unlikely to admit to themselves that they're basically being scammed or experiencing placebo, but for the benefit of others seeking real treatment, it's worth making this clear.


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## Ocho (Mar 13, 2011)

jtg said:


> Well no, the reason I said that is because although chiropractors are _allowed_ to do that, it doesn't mean they are qualified to. Chiropractic is unsubstantiated quack medicine and pseudoscience, and there is no basis for anything they do. It's like accupuncture and homeopathy. You should just go to real doctors, or at least a pedorthist.
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chiropractic_controversy_and_criticism
> 
> Anybody who has been seeing one is unlikely to admit to themselves that they're basically being scammed or experiencing placebo, but for the benefit of others seeking real treatment, it's worth making this clear.


The only reason I'll not argue this is because I don't come here to argue.

What I will say is: 

-Before and after radiographs are not placebo.
-Acupuncture and homeopathy have been successfully used for centuries, and are far more accepted outside the US.

Oh, and after my chiropractic adjustment after work today, I took my cat in to her acupuncturist veterinarian. We'll see her chiropractor veterinarian Saturday.

I'm not a fool easily parted from her money.

And everyone knows wikipedia entries are to be taken with a pound of salt.


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## jtg (Dec 11, 2012)

EatRideSleep said:


> The only reason I'll not argue this is because I don't come here to argue.
> 
> What I will say is:
> 
> ...


Well if you are going to claim that homeopathy has been successfully used for centuries, you're obviously not interested in science or facts. It's literally water! I'm amazed that real people actually believe that a few drops of WATER is some special medicine.

[Note to anyone considering a chiropractor: ^This is the type of people who believe in that quackery. The entire profession was founded by a "magnetic healer"! This is scientology-tier BS.]

And obviously, this has nothing to do with wikipedia, that's just a convenient summary. This quackery has been thoroughly debunked for decades, and those professions (who get their degrees from fringe, private schools, I might add) fail to show any evidence or basis.

Let me guess, you also believe vaccines cause autism, and wear one of those power balance bracelets...

Sorry, not here to pick a fight, but when it comes to people's money and their physical health, it's our duty as rational thinking people not to have people duped and possibly treated dangerously (even if just by leaving a real health issue untreated).


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## hktrdr (Apr 3, 2012)

jtg said:


> Well if you are going to claim that homeopathy has been successfully used for centuries, you're obviously not interested in science or facts. It's literally water! I'm amazed that real people actually believe that a few drops of WATER is some special medicine.
> 
> [Note to anyone considering a chiropractor: ^This is the type of people who believe in that quackery. The entire profession was founded by a "magnetic healer"! This is scientology-tier BS.]
> 
> ...


I am not gonna wade into the debate about chiropractors (do not know enough about this area).
However, jtg is correct on homeopathy - it has been completely and comprehensively debunked as bullshit.


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## jdang307 (Feb 6, 2011)

Chiropractors are effective for neuromuskulskeletal shit. Whiplash, neck/back pain.


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## jml22 (Apr 10, 2012)

To the OP.... read my post on the second page, let it be a guide...

And other guy, don't post Wikipedia sources that is predominately written/cites a guy who has lost his Medical license for fraud.


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## jtg (Dec 11, 2012)

jml22 said:


> And other guy, don't post Wikipedia sources that is predominately written/cites a guy who has lost his Medical license for fraud.


What are you talking about? Who contributed to the article that lost their medical license for fraud?

Edit:



paul said:


> have you considered seeing a chiropractor who specializes in sports injuries?





jml22 said:


> ^^^^
> Great suggestion.
> That's what I am



Sigh. Nevermind.


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## tanscrazydaisy (Mar 11, 2013)

jdang307 said:


> Chiropractors are effective for neuromuskulskeletal shit. Whiplash, neck/back pain.


that's why I go to one of these quacks... messed up neck and back as a result of a car accident, with x-rays showing my neck is bent the wrong way. My regular doctor after the accident only prescribed me pain killers.

Any... didn't know about the CCEP, and don't see it in the Palmer website (which my chiropractor is a graduate of)... so it turns out it's 7 weekends plus a test, but only 1 weekend is dedicated to the foot/gait/orthotics.

Would you really go to a doctor that took a weekend course on spinal manipulation, then passes a test (where the min is 75%) and then calls himself a chiropractor?

Then there is podiatry, where they do their graduate studies of the lower extremities, plus their residence, etc.

However, their limitation even, you specialized in podiatry sports medicine, they don't cover the mechanics of ski/snowboarding.

And.. podiatrist don't make the orthotics. They see pedorthists to get them made.

My podiatrist, goes to a boot fitter for footbeds for his ski boots.

Speaking of boot fitters.... I have been to BAD boot fitter, who may use all the correct buzzwords and ends up making a horrible footbed.... some were a "certified" America's Boot Fitters places.... which used just the "Instaprint" system, charged me $100, and sent me on my way....(which I should of listened to my podriatrist and skiier friends and went up the street a few miles, also a certified ABB center)

Though oddly enough, I ended up going to one of the founders of America's Best Boot Fitters and Masterfit University (and certified Pedorthist)... which he doesn't even sell boots himself. He didn't use the Instaprint system that he developed, instead he did it the old fashioned way, took an imprint (semi-weighted) of my feet, casted a mold, and then made a footbed according to his notes and measurements, ended up being light years better than the Instaprint footbed.

This was different from my podiatrist, because he noticed that my arch collapses slightly, though the podiatrist, used a plaster bandage to make a cast with me lying down on my stomach and the feet at the "neutral" position, then sent it off to the pedorthist to make the orthotic for walking.

...and call me a skeptic when someone says they are a boot fitter... because on the car forums... say someone claims they are a VW technician and work at a dealership.... there is a reason why many people don't get their car serviced at the dealership... as there are good technicians and the not so good technicians, and the not so good ones are the reason people do to indy shops

P.S., you can take everything I say for granted also.... but.. in the end, do your research, take in everyone's experiences, and make several judgement calls yourself.

Boot fitters near Ottawa? No idea.


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## Deacon (Mar 2, 2013)

jtg said:


> Well no, the reason I said that is because although chiropractors are _allowed_ to do that, it doesn't mean they are qualified to. Chiropractic is unsubstantiated quack medicine and pseudoscience, and there is no basis for anything they do. It's like accupuncture and homeopathy. You should just go to real doctors, or at least a pedorthist.
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chiropractic_controversy_and_criticism
> 
> Anybody who has been seeing one is unlikely to admit to themselves that they're basically being scammed or experiencing placebo, but for the benefit of others seeking real treatment, it's worth making this clear.


You're an idiot.


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## Mystery2many (Aug 14, 2013)

The Deacon said:


> You're an idiot.


Hahaha. Harsh but accurate.


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## killclimbz (Aug 10, 2007)

Sounds like someone is only drinking their professions kool aid. 

Chiropractors are not end alls but damn if I haven't had some amazing results. Fixed my gait as a teen. Where the guys who know their shit were saying I needed surgery. Yeah fuck you, didn't need that at all. Literally 3 visits and hey I walk normal. Not money wasted. Acupuncture, the same thing. That shit works. For everything? No. Homeopathic doctors? My mom loved hers, he didn't do anything for me. I kind of agree that they are quacks. I can't think of anything I'd go see one for. 

If you don't get a shot, take a pill, or need surgery to fix the problem it is generally not considered good medicine in the western world...


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## BigmountainVMD (Oct 9, 2011)

jml22 said:


> Eatridesleep
> Washington state has a very narrow scope for Chiro.... Pretty much spine only and historically relevant chiropractic. That's probably why he said what he said. In most states people people are VERY good at what they specialize in.


Lived in Tacoma, WA for 5 years and got 2 pairs of orthotics from my well trained chiropractor. He also worked on my knee and elbow... and it helped.



jtg said:


> Well no, the reason I said that is because although chiropractors are _allowed_ to do that, it doesn't mean they are qualified to. Chiropractic is unsubstantiated quack medicine and pseudoscience, and there is no basis for anything they do. It's like accupuncture and homeopathy. You should just go to real doctors, or at least a pedorthist.


I know two well known orthopedic surgeons (one a veterinary equine surgeon, one the hand surgeon for all major Philadelphia sports teams) who swear by acupuncture for certain musculoskeletal and neurological issues.


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## Deacon (Mar 2, 2013)

killclimbz said:


> Sounds like someone is only drinking their professions kool aid.
> 
> Chiropractors are not end alls but damn if I haven't had some amazing results. Fixed my gait as a teen. Where the guys who know their shit were saying I needed surgery. Yeah fuck you, didn't need that at all. Literally 3 visits and hey I walk normal. Not money wasted. Acupuncture, the same thing. That shit works. For everything? No. Homeopathic doctors? My mom loved hers, he didn't do anything for me. I kind of agree that they are quacks. I can't think of anything I'd go see one for.
> 
> If you don't get a shot, take a pill, or need surgery to fix the problem it is generally not considered good medicine in the western world...


Homeopathy typically works on the placebo effect. Something that cannot be explained by science, and hence is scientifically dismissed. Fact is, if you believe it helps, if it makes you FEEL better, then it works.

I have two compression fractured vertebrae, that every MD said I'd need surgery for. It's been 22 years, no surgery yet. When I worked construction I'd need the chiro about every six months, now that I don't hang sheetrock, I haven't needed an adjustment in two years.


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## Jed (May 11, 2011)

jtg said:


> Well no, the reason I said that is because although chiropractors are _allowed_ to do that, it doesn't mean they are qualified to. Chiropractic is unsubstantiated quack medicine and pseudoscience, and there is no basis for anything they do. It's like accupuncture and homeopathy. You should just go to real doctors, or at least a pedorthist.
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chiropractic_controversy_and_criticism
> 
> Anybody who has been seeing one is unlikely to admit to themselves that they're basically being scammed or experiencing placebo, but for the benefit of others seeking real treatment, it's worth making this clear.


I have no idea about homeopathy (and it's probably bs from what I've heard), but chiropractors and acupuncture do work and dismissing them as just 'quack medicine' makes you look kind of silly.

I go to a chiropractor regularly and he helped fix a lot issues after I had some bad crashes in the park that compressed my back.

Acupuncture also works, it just doesn't always work 100% of the time, but when it does work it's amazing. I've gone from having my entire back seized up to instantly being able to relax, flex and move my back after one acupuncture session with my physio in NZ.

Just because some bad chiropractors or acupuncturists make crazy claims and lie, doesn't mean all of them are misusing their profession.


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## jtg (Dec 11, 2012)

The Deacon said:


> You're an idiot.


Brilliant logic! Who needs evidence or science. We have drops of water and magnetic bracelets! 



Jed said:


> I have no idea about homeopathy (and it's probably bs from what I've heard), but chiropractors and acupuncture do work and dismissing them as just 'quack medicine' makes you look kind of silly.


Yes, scientists are very silly. Those guys and their "books smarts" and "research", thinking they're all high and mighty. It works because we know it works, and that's good enough! For example, since I changed my socks, I have not sprained my ankle even one time! That's all the proof we need.




killclimbz said:


> Sounds like someone is only drinking their professions kool aid.


LOL. Anti-intellectualism is cool now? The human race is doomed. 



Go ahead and continue to give money to your magnetic healers that are entirely rejected by the academic community and medical associations, fail every double blind study, and have never produced a shred of evidence that they have any legitimacy. What they have produced is a lot of injuries and wasted money, however.

Here's why you "feel better":
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gqo4KBNL_h4#t=6m8s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9246yX1u0t8


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## Jed (May 11, 2011)

jtg said:


> Yes, scientists are very silly. Those guys and their "books smarts" and "research", thinking they're all high and mighty. It works because we know it works, and that's good enough! For example, since I changed my socks, I have not sprained my ankle even one time! That's all the proof we need.


Did you even read my post? Where did I say scientists are silly? I said you're silly because you're using selective evidence based on quacks to judge an entire profession.

That sounds pretty silly to me.

Scientists aren't silly and magnetic bracelets are indeed stupid. You however are silly and being a huge douche right now.

Is that more clear for you?

Yes there are idiot chiropractors and acupuncturists overstepping their bounds with crazy claims and you can link to evidence of those all day. No one is disagreeing with you about those quacks. However, there are plenty who also use their profession correctly to fix real issues.


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## Ocho (Mar 13, 2011)

killclimbz said:


> Sounds like someone is only drinking their professions kool aid.
> 
> Chiropractors are not end alls but damn if I haven't had some amazing results. Fixed my gait as a teen. Where the guys who know their shit were saying I needed surgery. Yeah fuck you, didn't need that at all. Literally 3 visits and hey I walk normal. Not money wasted. Acupuncture, the same thing. That shit works. For everything? No. Homeopathic doctors? My mom loved hers, he didn't do anything for me. I kind of agree that they are quacks. I can't think of anything I'd go see one for.
> 
> *If you don't get a shot, take a pill, or need surgery to fix the problem it is generally not considered good medicine in the western world...*


True; there are no "end alls," no magic bullets in anything. Which is why multifaceted and holistic approaches are worth considering. 

I have a similar story as yours. The MD told me to take Alleve for a musculoskeletal issue. Radiographs from the chiropractor (he was the only one who took images) showed my pelvis was dropped a full 2" on one side with subluxations in 3 major joints. Needless to say, since then I've not consulted with an MD for ANY musculoskeletal issues. They are trained more in the endocrine system and pharmacology than that of the musculature or skeletal systems. Don't get me wrong, they have their place. But they are certainly not the end all.

Had I listened only to the MD, I'd be a crooked mess with many more compensatory issues as a result.

As for the bold font statement, you are absolutely correct. It's sad as many suffer. And talk about financial cost!



The Deacon said:


> *Homeopathy typically works on the placebo effect.* Something that cannot be explained by science, and hence is scientifically dismissed. Fact is, if you believe it helps, if it makes you FEEL better, then it works.


Here's where that is proved untrue: animals treated with homeopathy. Animals are not subject to the placebo effect. 


For anyone interested, this article I read a few weeks ago on the science behind acupuncture is fascinating http://www.the-scientist.com/?articles.view/articleNo/35301/title/The-Science-of-Stretch/ And oh, look - science!


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## jtg (Dec 11, 2012)

Jed said:


> Did you even read my post? Where did I say scientists are silly? I said you're silly because you're using selective evidence based on quacks to judge an entire profession.
> 
> That sounds pretty silly to me.
> 
> ...


This has nothing to do with one or two quacks. Look up the guy who INVENTED the field. Is that more clear for you?





EatRideSleep said:


> Here's where that is proved untrue: animals treated with homeopathy. Animals are not subject to the placebo effect.



This is so goddamn stupid it hurts, and nothing you say can be taken seriously if you make claims like this. Use your brain, its WATER. NOWHERE has it EVER been proven that animals have been helped by homeopathy. Do not just make things up. I have less sympathy for humans doing stupid things, but if you forego proper treatment of a helpless suffering dog, thinking you can just give it some water, well, there's a special place in hell for you.


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## Deacon (Mar 2, 2013)

jtg said:


> Brilliant logic! Who needs evidence or science. We have drops of water and magnetic bracelets!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Point proven.


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## chomps1211 (Mar 30, 2011)

jtg said:


> Brilliant logic!....
> 
> ....Go ahead and continue to give money to your magnetic healers that are entirely rejected by the academic community and medical associations.



Funny how your _logic_, managed to skip past ALL the comments from people who have been helped by Modern Chiropractic, simply to focus your argument on the more controversial practices and aspects of this conversation. So much for "objectivity?"

Don't know anything about Homeopathy, so I can't comment. I can say that about 2-3 months ago My back was so jacked up that I had to take massive doses of the Prednisone I use for my arthritis flare ups just to knock the pain back enough to get to work! I could barely walk! And It was only getting worse! I reluctantly took a friends advice and finally gave in on "My" skepticism, and went to a Chiropractor she recommended for me!

_ONE_ adjustment, and my lower back pain was 80-90% gone! I could work without using those damned steroids! After the second visit, my lower back was mostly pain free! _THAT_ is not a placebo!! 

BTW, Many years and multiple visits and complaints to my GP and rheumatologist about back, neck, shoulder pain! Exams, X-rays, etc. Absolutely _NO_, treatment or advice beyond pain meds! 

Isn't _Science_ Wonderful??! :blink:


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## Jed (May 11, 2011)

jtg said:


> This has nothing to do with one or two quacks. Look up the guy who INVENTED the field. Is that more clear for you?


I don't care about the history of acupuncture or chiropractors. All I care is "Hey my back is compressed and screwed up, what will fix it?"

You know what fixed my back when doctors couldn't do anything except give me pain killers and say "Yep... you compressed your back"? Acupuncture and chiropractors.

Heck, I already gave you evidence in that my back literally went from being seized up and unable to move when I walked into my physio appointment to instantly being able to flex and move right after she did 1 session of acupuncture.

I too find it amusing how you selectively pick the evidence from quacks while ignoring all the comments where people had real results from proper use of the professions.


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## BigmountainVMD (Oct 9, 2011)

jtg said:


> This has nothing to do with one or two quacks. Look up the guy who INVENTED the field. Is that more clear for you?


MDs were prescribing mercury to patients back then... Medicine has evolved just like chiropractic care has.


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## hktrdr (Apr 3, 2012)

EatRideSleep said:


> Here's where that is proved untrue: animals treated with homeopathy. Animals are not subject to the placebo effect.


Erm, no. All proper studies only indicate that homeopathic treatments in animals have no effect whatsoever - other than maybe giving their owners false hope.
I am onboard with with a wide range of treatments, including alternative ones.
I fully believe that acupuncture works (incidentally there is a good body of scientific research that supports that view).
I also have an active interest (although at this point I remain mostly unconvinced) in traditional Chinese (TCM), since I live in the country.
But homeopathy has been scientifically proven beyond a shadow of doubt to be quackery.


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## jtg (Dec 11, 2012)

Ok so this debate has existed long before this forum and it's not going to be resolved here. Most people, whatever they believe, have already made up their mind on the issue and nothing productive can come of pissing each other off. 

As someone experiencing the frustration of the OP, who has tried all of the advice posted on the forum, I felt a genuinely compelled to warn him that in my experience, ongoing chronic issues such as his are highly unlikely to be corrected by things like "loosen your toe strap" or visiting a bootfitter. And I have very strong feelings about encouraging people to spend money on what I believe are highly dubious treatments. So I apologize for the personal attacks in the side discussion on that. Enough has been said, and as an adult he can come to his own conclusions.

Also for what it's worth, anybody can be trained to make footbeds, so I wont suggest that visiting a chiropractor to have them made is necessarily bad.

I had a very good experience with a bootfitter up at one of the resorts here, who was certified at the MasterFit University's highest level (Masters Plus Dark Arts) and he worked with me to tweak things for several weeks. I'd definitely recommend him to anybody in the WA area. Unfortunately, I learned that this particular issue is simply not something that bootfitting can solve. 

Of course it could also be the case that OP just got a bad batch and there is a quick fix. I doubt it, but just like I'm saying you shouldn't put much into advice on a forum to fix an issue very specific to your body, you shouldn't listen to me either


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## jml22 (Apr 10, 2012)

Have you tried rehab?


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## jdang307 (Feb 6, 2011)

Homeopathy works. Period. When I have a slight hangover, a beer or a nice bloody mary takes care of that. :laugh:


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## Ocho (Mar 13, 2011)

hktrdr said:


> Erm, no. All proper studies only indicate that homeopathic treatments in animals have no effect whatsoever - other than maybe giving their owners false hope.


Based on my personal experience with my own animals (whom I love, and care for as much if not more than myself) plus those belonging to others, I've found homeopathy to work. Consider it anecdotal if you wish, but at the end of the day, if something will help mine or another's animal _without doing harm_, I'm all for it. 

If I choose to have a second set of radiographs done on one of my animals since using homeopathic treatment (in addition to other therapies), I may post the results. In any event, six months after homeopathic treatment, the vet found improvement based on a physical exam. What matters to me is there's improvement without causing further damage to the body by way of those nasty side effects so intertwined with pharmaceuticals. 



jdang307 said:


> Homeopathy works. Period. When I have a slight hangover, a beer or a nice bloody mary takes care of that. :laugh:


Ha, indeed, like cures like.


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## BigmountainVMD (Oct 9, 2011)

Guess I should add something that actually has to do with the OPs question. 

I had bad foot pain (very flat feet) and even my normal orthotics did not cure it while snowboarding. It is true that most orthotics are made for walking and in my experience, they don't even fit nicely in a snowboard boot. 

What I had done was get custom footbeds from a local hardbooter. He did take a mold of the bottom of my feet (like all orthotics) but what he did differently, was to have me balance in the molded footbeds (made of cork) and he slowly filed away sections of the cork until I could almost balance on one foot effortlessly. He would watch the muscles contract in each foot as I tried to balance 1-footed, and based on what muscles moved he would shave off some cork to make it so it took almost no muscle movement to maintain a balanced posture. 

These are not super cushioned footbeds. They are actually quite stiff and unforgiving, but they are damn comfortable because there is no weird pressure and my feet aren't scrambling in my boots trying to get balanced.

Response was improved, feel was improved and comfort was improved. As the weeks went on I would find small pressure points, and he would carve little holes in the cork to relieve the pressure and now they are all dialed in. Had them 3 years, about 200 days riding, with no fade of the material and no warping.

This was by far the most "custom" custom footbed experience I have ever had, and they are warrantied for life. 

You probably won't be able to make it to western Maine... but if you can find someone who offers a similar service I would go for it. The key component being multiple opportunities to dial in the footbeds after they are molded to your foot. Just putting you feet in a shrink wrapper isn't gonna do shit if they are not worked on after...

And for everyone else, a double-blind study showing chiropractic adjustments of the C1 vertebra can lower blood pressure (did I mention the lead author is a well recognized MD?) --> http://www.uchospitals.edu/news/2007/20070314-atlas.html


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## Jibfreak (Jul 16, 2009)

Tellin ya... Skip all this custom fit boot insert nonsense and try it without any insert. Costs you nothing and if it doesn't tickle your fancy slap that badboy back in there.


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## BigmountainVMD (Oct 9, 2011)

Jibfreak said:


> Tellin ya... Skip all this custom fit boot insert nonsense and try it without any insert. Costs you nothing and if it doesn't tickle your fancy slap that badboy back in there.


Yeah, definitely worth a try. I actually tried this by accident (pull my footbeds out to let the boot dry) and didn't have any luck.

Try the cheaper options first though, absolutely. For all we know it could be heel lift easily solved with a smaller boot.


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## Deacon (Mar 2, 2013)

jtg said:


> Ok so this debate has existed long before this forum and it's not going to be resolved here. Most people, whatever they believe, have already made up their mind on the issue and nothing productive can come of pissing each other off.
> 
> As someone experiencing the frustration of the OP, who has tried all of the advice posted on the forum, I felt a genuinely compelled to warn him that in my experience, ongoing chronic issues such as his are highly unlikely to be corrected by things like "loosen your toe strap" or visiting a bootfitter. And I have very strong feelings about encouraging people to spend money on what I believe are highly dubious treatments. So I apologize for the personal attacks in the side discussion on that. Enough has been said, and as an adult he can come to his own conclusions.
> 
> ...


Insult retracted. THIS is not the post of an idiot. :thumbsup:


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## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

Jibfreak said:


> Tellin ya... Skip all this custom fit boot insert nonsense and try it without any insert. Costs you nothing and if it doesn't tickle your fancy slap that badboy back in there.


If it was a properly sized boot sure, have at it, but it's not. It's too big. And taking out the insole is only going to create more space. 

Do things right the first time and you won't have problems later.


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## Jibfreak (Jul 16, 2009)

Didn't see anywhere that the op said his boots were too big so I'm not sure where ya got that, and my boots are the perfect size but my inserts have too intense of an arch which causes my flat feet pain. Which is what I thought the op was asking about, but whatever I guess I'm just an idiot who buys the "wrong sized boots".


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## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

I admit, the too big assessment must have been a different thread.

Regardless. Taking an insole out is NOT the answer. It increases the effective boot size by a half size. Not to mention foot pain in Burton's with custom insoles is 1 of 2 things. Burton has possibly the lowest instep on the market. That pressure could be the issue. Solution, go to a proper boot fitter. The second is that custom orthotics are meant to cradle the whole foot and usually are meant for static support. Not dynamic. The arch needs to be able to pronate and move dynamically, to a degree, in the boot. An orthotic from a foot doctor is frankly too much. We have uncommon success with cut to fit Superfeet. Remind insoles have a similar theory. They aren't designed for arch support, they're designed to control the heel. Pain is usually from over use of stabilizer muscles do to lack of suppot. Controlling the heel gives the support the foot needs without limiting its movement. You do need to be properly fit even for Superfeet though.


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## Ra1ze (Feb 23, 2020)

I haven't read every post. My size 11 are some of the flattest feet, quite a few podiatrists have told me. I literally have no arch at all, it's the biggest reason I switched from skiing to snowboarding, because ski boots are not designed for people with our affliction at all. 
The biggest reason you have pain in your feet, is because you do not have the muscle fitness to do what you want. There's are hundreds of therapy ideas here. But the biggest is prevention. After seeing a physio, and getting a program to do in the off season to strengthen my feet , I didn't have any dramas afterwards. We don't have a natural arch, so out feet can flex more, in a typical daily lifestyle your feet arnt continually flexing from heel to toe all day. Also a spiky massage ball works wonders.


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## buller_scott (Jun 10, 2018)

To the OP, and for what it's worth, here's my experience. 

I've got a long, boring story in the background, so I'll cut it down: if orthotics are still on your radar, submit a "wet test" to TreadLabs, and see what they have to say. 

I've done my rounds with a podiatrist, I've tried Superfeet/Taylarmade/Formthotics/Birkenstock/Sidas, with and without modification to suit my wide, overpronating, "you are heavy so your feet are flat" feet. 

TreadLabs opined that regardless of my being heavy, my foot being wide, my overpronation, that I in fact have what they class as an extra-high arch. These were the first people to tell me this. 

Got me 2x sets of their carbon fibre insoles (which make the Superfeet carbon fibre insoles feel like wet cardboard by comparison) in Extra High, they're incredibly well manufactured, properly rigid yet with enough give, totally supportive, and I can longboard pump for hours before my fitness gives up - my feet would otherwise still be good to go. 

I'm not affiliated with TreadLabs, it's simply that their advice has been sound, and their product is the best I've ever tried, by a decent margin.


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