# Avalung / hydrater back pack



## pdxrealtor (Jan 23, 2012)

I'm a second year rider whose progressed greatly. I love trees and when tree well danger isn't a huge factor I can nail the trees with ease and confidence.


However, when the pow is deep the trees scare me which we all know leads to lack of confidence which leads to landing in a tree well. HELL even the best of them end up in a tree well sometimes. 

Guaranteed lifesaver, no. You still have to get out, call for help, etc....

I've been thinking about the lightest avalund / hydrater pack on the market. 

Do any of you board with the avalung for safety?


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## ShredLife (Feb 6, 2010)

i have one that i'll slap onto my BC pack if its really deep.

you are a beginner, and riding with a backpack (unless you are in the backcountry where it is required for safe travel) beginner or not is going to really mess with your balance and slow your progression. 

it may be the backpack that puts your ass in that treewell....

keep in mind that you have to be wearing the mouthpiece IN your mouth for it to work. you'll put an avalung in your mouth before you drop in on a wide open face you just hiked up, but whenever you dip into the trees? i wouldn't.

if you're nervous about riding in the trees its probably your self-preservation instinct because you just might not be there yet. riding in the trees requires you to keep your speed up and to think and visualize like 3 turns ahead of you. you not only have to have the skills, but you have to have the confidence that you KNOW you have the skill... an avalung isn't going to be what makes you safer and a backpack isn't worth wearing unless you have to.


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## pdxrealtor (Jan 23, 2012)

ShredLife said:


> i have one that i'll slap onto my BC pack if its really deep.
> 
> you are a beginner, and riding with a backpack (unless you are in the backcountry where it is required for safe travel) beginner or not is going to really mess with your balance and slow your progression.
> 
> ...


Ummm.... it happens to the best!

I might be a 'beginner' but I'm far progressed beyond the label. I could ride with a keg on my back and adjust. 

I did state, and prove, that tress don't phase me when there is little to no tree well danger. 

Ask snowolf...


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## ShredLife (Feb 6, 2010)

i don't have to ask snowolf. 

riding with a backpack throws you off. period. 

riding with a backpack at the resort, unless you are filming and carrying DSLR camera equipment - is stupid and will slow down your progression.

i have fallen into treewells and volcanic vents. i have fallen in upside-down. i have lost friends to tree impacts. 

what you need is solid skills. if you want to survive a treewell get good at manipulating your binding straps. be able to reach them while upside down. wear a helmet to prevent being knocked unconscious, sure - but wearing an avalung in a treewell is just going to give you another 15 minutes in a situation where noone is probably looking for you anyway.

avalungs were designed to give you time to breath in an avalanche burial - dense, compacted snow and (hopefully) an active rescue. treewells are different. the snow is not dense and your friends are either right there (watched you go in or noticed you missing on that run) and are digging you out or noone watched you go in and its up to you to get out or we'll see ya in the spring. 

i get the feeling i'm not going to be able to convince you i'm right here - and you're free to do whatever you want, but you'd be better off with a lifealert bracelet or a 2way radio in a treewell situation...


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## pdxrealtor (Jan 23, 2012)

I've been thinking of alert resources all summer. You mention life alert 2 way radio.

Aren't ski patrols radios on a trunked system? 

Life alert..... will that work in the deep and if so what frequency does it run on? 

Tree wells and DSI are serious hazards amongst the best boarding conditions. 

There has to be a good preventive measure


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## ShredLife (Feb 6, 2010)

life alert is that thing the little old lady has in the "i've fallen and i can't get up!" commercials. i was being sarcastic

you are right that they are serious hazards. _the best things for the trees or other potentially hazardous situations (avy terrain) is to always ride with a partner and to use good judgment. _

an avalung simply was not designed for this purpose. would it give you extra time in _some_ treewell situations? sure, yes. 

in *an avalanche* you have 15 minutes of air without the help of an avalung. the snow of an avalanche is much denser (think concrete) then the snow of any treewell that you could sink into, so... see how its an apples to avocados kinda thing? yes you could breath longer with an _avalung in your mouth_ when you went into a treewell, but rarely will you be chilling out for 20+ minutes unless you're unconscious or really really stuck. 

you'd be better off with a cell phone.


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## pdxrealtor (Jan 23, 2012)

ShredLife said:


> life alert is that thing the little old lady has in the "i've fallen and i can't get up!" commercials. i was being sarcastic
> 
> you are right that they are serious hazards. _the best things for the trees or other potentially hazardous situations (avy terrain) is to always ride with a partner and to use good judgment. _
> 
> ...


AWESOME....... LOVE HOW ATT doesn't work at meadows most of the terrain. 

I've been seriously thinking of getting a pre-paid verizon phone for Emergency purposes, but like you say and I know, a tree well can treat you good or F u


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## pdxrealtor (Jan 23, 2012)

Previous post of yours . 

the best way to stay safe around treewells, or in any avy terrain is to:

1. ride with a partner and stay within sight of each other.

2. have a radio/cellphone. whistle.

3. remain conscious when you go under (helmet?)

4. avalung and beacon

5. know how to get out of your bindings without looking, while upside down, with limited mobility

6. know your terrain. know how to recognize this stuff. pay attention to the snow conditions and quality.

7. wear bright clothing.

i am sure there is more stuff, but a blowtorch ain't one of em
__________________


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## ShredLife (Feb 6, 2010)

#5 and #3perhaps could be THE most important...
Edit: #6 is THEEEE most important. 

this shit is long... but a brutal reality of how scary it could be... and relevant to the discussion... anyhow - time isn't so much the issue. the worst time i was in upside down and covered it was being able to get out of my bindings that made it easy (relatively) for me to self-rescue.


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## pdxrealtor (Jan 23, 2012)

The point is this shit can happen to anyone pro or novice. this is a great survival video but it relies solely on cell phone, which is not available at meadows if you're using att. 

even if using verizon this guy was lucky enough to be able to reach his phone. 

thx for the vids....... just one more which i have not seen that preps me for the hazard.


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## pdxrealtor (Jan 23, 2012)

I'm glad that guy made it out. Amazing!!! 

for every survival story there's a death story..........scary


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## Triple8Sol (Nov 24, 2008)

Picked up a Black Diamond Outlaw Avalung pack end of last season but haven't had a chance to use it yet. I wanted a smaller pack, but all of their smaller models only offer diagonal ski carry, and of course I need to be able to strap up a board for hikes.


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## killclimbz (Aug 10, 2007)

I believe it was the Canadian avalanche association that did a tree well simulation with skiers and snowboarders going in head first into a tree well. Six of each if memory serves. Not one of them were able to extract themselves. Even the skiers who got their skis off were fucked. This is of course the worse case of burial, but none the less an avalung could buy you time. Why a pack though? There is the avalung sling. Won't throw your riding off at all like a pack. It's all moot if you can't get it in your mouth. I suspect that is easier to do stuck in a tree well than buried in an avalanche though. If no one is looking for you it could be a long wait if you can't self extract.


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## pdxrealtor (Jan 23, 2012)

I've been contemplating a pack for board carrying, and hydration. One of the biggest issues I had last year was dehydration. If Could have hit some Gatorade after the exhausting runs I think I would have had more stamina. 

I eat healthy proteins, carbs, and not too much as to burn out. The only variable for me was no water. Add the booze in on top of no water and of course I'm going to burn out quick. 

So I figured if I'm gonna get a pack for hydration and board packing, why not get the lung??

I too was looking at the black diamond bag. The smallest one that would allow board strapping.


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## ETM (Aug 11, 2009)

I say keep the lung and the pack seperate. Your lung should last forever but your pack sure wont.


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## pdxrealtor (Jan 23, 2012)

ETM said:


> I say keep the lung and the pack seperate. Your lung should last forever but your pack sure wont.


Good point, but I'm trying to simplify things. This business of 20 minutes to load up pockets, and put this on and that on, has got to stop. 

Throw it all in a pack, throw it on, and RIDE.


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## ShredLife (Feb 6, 2010)

well it sounds like you have had your mind made up about this and are just looking for some validation in your decision. 

there is nothing wrong with wearing safety gear - buy/wear a lung/lungpack if that is what you want to do.

wearing a backpack to carry snacks and water and whatnots at the resort will limit your movement and it will limit your riding ability for no real reason. no one will ever be able to be able to convince me otherwise because i know for a fact that i am right. 

i carry a couple of capri suns in my pockets (platypus bottles work great) and a bag of trailmix or a cliff bar. it all fits in my pockets and i hardly have any pockets.

in the backcountry, fine - you need to wear a pack anyways so if you want the lungpack, fine. honestly if you want to look at specialized packs get and airbag - but that's a whole other thread. i digress....

the backpack at the resort will limit your riding.


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## ThunderChunky (Oct 1, 2011)

It's always funny seeing people around here riding with packs. Dude what are you carrying in there? I can see your car from every point on the hill.


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## ETM (Aug 11, 2009)

I ride with a small pack inbounds every time. It sure doesnt stop me having fun.


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## TheMan (Aug 24, 2012)

I always ask the tourists why they are carrying their luggage with them. I've been in a couple sticky tree well/avy situations myself. I keep a whistle on my jacket zipper and on deep days it's pretty much zipped right up near my mouth. I also keep my phone in my chest pocket and whenever any sudden dangers arise, I instinctively (now) throw a hand up near my face/phone area so in the event of avy/well I can clear snow from my mouth and make a call/blow that whistle. I always ride alone inbounds.I carry as little as possible with me inbounds.


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## backstop13 (Jun 27, 2012)

ShredLife said:


> i carry a couple of capri suns in my pockets (platypus bottles work great) and a bag of trailmix or a cliff bar. it all fits in my pockets and i hardly have any pockets.


ever thought about using a small camelbak for resort riding? I used one last year and wore it under my jacket, and it worked out well. It's enough water to keep me going for 6-8 hours of riding, and it's not heavy enough to throw balance off. Nice to not have to fuck with finding pockets or places to put stuff i guess.


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## ShredLife (Feb 6, 2010)

backstop13 said:


> and it's not heavy enough to throw balance off.


try spinning and jumping off of 20-30ft cliffs with it on and see if you still want to wear it then.


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## backstop13 (Jun 27, 2012)

ShredLife said:


> try spinning and jumping off of 20-30ft cliffs with it on and see if you still want to wear it then.


I meant just for resort riding. We dont have 20-30 feet cliffs in the TN/NC shitholes I board at, so I don't have to worry about that. I can definitely see what you mean though.


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## killclimbz (Aug 10, 2007)

A camelbak like the snow angel, is not going to throw your weight off. Not anymore than carrying the same amount of fluids in somewhere else on your persona. They are generally 50 oz skins, not full backpacks. I Camelbak pack will. I am with you backstop on your example. I have an old snowangel I'd use at resorts, no weight or balance distribution issues felt with that. My backcountry pack, yeah, that has a big effect.


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## backstop13 (Jun 27, 2012)

killclimbz said:


> A camelbak like the snow angel, is not going to throw your weight off. Not anymore than carrying the same amount of fluids in somewhere else on your persona. They are generally 50 oz skins, not full backpacks. I Camelbak pack will. I am with you backstop on your example. I have an old snowangel I'd use at resorts, no weight or balance distribution issues felt with that. My backcountry pack, yeah, that has a big effect.


exactly. The one I use is 70 oz, but I know they have 50 oz versions too. I fill it halfway up the night before i go and freeze it, then add water the next morning. Keeps it cool and then the ice melts throughout the day. might be a good alternative to capris suns, especially if you can drain capris suns into the camelbak before you go  

capris sun > water 

CamelBak® - 2012 Zoid


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## ShredLife (Feb 6, 2010)

its not a good option for me because i don't want to ride with a backpack on. 

the pack weighs over a half pound and that much water weighs about 5. if you think it doesn't make a difference try turning it around and wearing it in front of you. feel the weight then?

if you don't care about doing tricks or pushing your riding, fine - for me, that is what riding at the resort is for and i will never wear any kind of pack doing it.


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## killclimbz (Aug 10, 2007)

Like I said it's pretty minimal. Too each his own. Under a jacket with a snow angel, it just doesn't really bother me. It is also nice and tight to the back, not loose like it would be on front of me. Plenty of videos with guys hucking their meat getting all flippy spinny with their bc packs on. Not me, but the Snow Angel is much less intrusive. That's all. I'm also not very spinny, flippy anymore. Being an old man and all...

Not to mention, one of those hydration sleeve packs can usually be found for $30. If it's not working for you, it's not a big mistake purchase either.


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## snowvols (Apr 16, 2008)

Backpacks are stupid for resort riding. Throw your bottle of fluid at the top or bottom of the lift and there is your water. Backpacks just get in the way. While touring I always remember how much I hate backpacks. Even throwing a 1 off a lip throws me off. I also have a larger pack since I carry tons of shit while touring.


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## TheMan (Aug 24, 2012)

Here at Breckenridge there's water at the top of each mountain, and at the bottom, and I would imagine at most resorts it's pretty readily available also. I wore a backpack when I was a beginner, but figured out pretty quickly, it throws off everything especially spinning and larger drops.I also have a mountain stash stocked with all sorts of important items and even a few frozen hoagies. Bottle of everclear, extra layer, extra weed, you get the picture.


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## ShredLife (Feb 6, 2010)

TheMan said:


> I also have a mountain stash stocked with all sorts of important items and even a few frozen hoagies. Bottle of everclear, extra layer, extra weed, you get the picture.


oh i found that, ate the food, drank the booze, puked it up, smoked the weed, and passed out using the longjohns as a blanket.


thanks brah


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## pdxrealtor (Jan 23, 2012)

ShredLife said:


> oh i found that, ate the food, drank the booze, puked it up, smoked the weed, and passed out using the longjohns as a blanket.
> 
> 
> thanks brah


lol... 

I ride all over the mountain. Stashing shit would have the same end result as leaving it in my car on most days.


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## pdxrealtor (Jan 23, 2012)

Check this app out, for tree well or on mountain safety. You'd have to have cell service but with this app you could put in ski patrol, family, friends, etc and it shoots off your location to all of them. They'd probably have to have a smart phone but still.

http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/guardly/id400742014?mt=8


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