# I cannot get this timing right--linking turns



## huskerdye (Feb 6, 2011)

So I went out for my fourth day today snowboarding.. I have both the turns down, but am having monster problems linking from my heel side edge turn to a toe side edge turn.. Every time I try linking them I almost always catch when my board is flat. Is it just something you get a feel for or what, I'm sure it's my timing, but I can't figure it out.. Any pointers? I ride regular and I can do both turns fine, I just can't link them.. What I've been doing is I'll go down down the slope all heel edge.. And when I start getting too far left I just go fake and stay heel edge, taking the board right. I'm tired of doing this!! I want to link those turns, but not eat it everytime.. Any pointers would be greatly appreciated!

Also, I had seriously a stupid instructor my first day, he told me to ride down the mountain completely flat footed and straight. I knew this was wrong and after two huge faceplants I told him I was done with he lesson and I'd get it on my own.


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## Tachypsychia (Feb 1, 2011)

Are you catching a certain edge when you transition to flat?

I noticed I was doing the same thing for a bit and learned to initiate the transition from flat to the turn by leaning hard on my front knee in the direction i wanted to go and a little torsional flex in the same direction. For instance from regular going from flat, I'd push the knee right and push my front toes down, and the board would go and I'd start to press the rear toes in to start digging the edge in to carve.

My issue is doing to too fast and loosing control, either leaning back too much, or not being able to switch back cause I'm turning so sharp. Either way, I hope that helps. After a few runs I stopped doing that.


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## sb60 (Oct 5, 2010)

Good to know I am not the only person who couldn't link turns for a while. In my case I was not keeping my weight forward and staying square with the board. I had a lesson that helped me and after that I could turn without problems. If you can take a lesson, the instructor can probably point out what you need to correct. A stupid thing that helped me stay square (not twisting or leaning back) I learned in a lesson. Imagine you have two little penguins on the edges of your board. Keep your hands on their heads when you ride to practice staying straight with your board. For a while I would just think penguins when I found myself twisting. 

And don't worry. Even people like me who took forever to get the hang of things can get to be pretty good riders.


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## gjsnowboarder (Sep 1, 2009)

huskerdye said:


> So I went out for my fourth day today snowboarding.. I have both the turns down, but am having monster problems linking from my heel side edge turn to a toe side edge turn.. Every time I try linking them I almost always catch when my board is flat. Is it just something you get a feel for or what, I'm sure it's my timing, but I can't figure it out.. Any pointers? I ride regular and I can do both turns fine, I just can't link them.. What I've been doing is I'll go down down the slope all heel edge.. And when I start getting too far left I just go fake and stay heel edge, taking the board right. I'm tired of doing this!! I want to link those turns, but not eat it everytime.. Any pointers would be greatly appreciated!
> 
> Also, I had seriously a stupid instructor my first day, he told me to ride down the mountain completely flat footed and straight. I knew this was wrong and after two huge faceplants I told him I was done with he lesson and I'd get it on my own.


Sorry to hear you had a bad experience with an instructor. I would go back and get another lesson and let them know about your experience and that you want a "certified" instructor.

To assist with your heel to toeside issue. It is likely that you are trying to changes edges when your board is still across the fall line versus being in it. Let your board go almost flat. Then slowly spin your hip/front knee in the direction of your next turn, Once the nose of the board is pointed at least a 45 degree angle down the slope or straight down. Shift your weight onto your toes. Once your weight is shifted you can bend your knees down over your toes or lift your heels more to finish out your toeside turn. Make sure to look where you are turning too in the snow. If you look straight down the hill "you're going to have a bad time".


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## huskerdye (Feb 6, 2011)

Thanks a lot guys.. I have another question, I'm still a little unsure about what exactly torsional flex is. I mean I understand that I'm keeping one of my feet flat, but putting the other fut on an edge, but I don't understand what this is doing for me and when I need to do this.

Snowolf, am I using the torsional flex of the board by initiating the turn with my lead foot and then coming in slowly with my back foot? If somebody could help clear these terms up it would be great.. I'm really sorry!! Going again Saturday and want to get everything down.. Don't wanna dish out the money for another horrible instructor.


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## mbesp (Jan 30, 2009)

Snowolf does a great job explaining things. 
Just one little thing i see tons of beginners on the hill doing is leaning too far back. 
None of the directions snowolf gave will work if you are leaning back. 
Try and keep your weight centered once you are turning and slightly on your front foot when initiating turns and linking heel and toe turns as snowolf described.


Edit: typing too fast. now it should make more sense.


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## huskerdye (Feb 6, 2011)

Yeah, I wish I could have Snowolf as an instructor.. You make everything seem so much clearer!

Sorry for the repetition, so all I'm doing when using that torsion flex is just initiating a turn with my lead foot allowing it to get on it's edge and then slowly starting the turn with my back foot?? So basically my back foot needs to be flat until my front edge has initiated the turn?

Also, do I start my next turn as soon as I feel my first turn is done? Or do I start it after I've committed my first turn?!??


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## huskerdye (Feb 6, 2011)

Snowolf said:


> Close....you make every change with the front foot...go from an edge, to flat by relaxing the front foot, then relaxing the back foot. Go from flat to the new edge by pressuring the new edge with the front foot, then following through with the back foot.


One more time, just to clarify..

So let's say I'm going down the mountain on my heel edge.. I'm coming to the point where I want to switch directions and go on my toe edge.. To do this I'm going to relax my lead foot and make it flat based and then gradually do the same thing on my back foot. When do I start going toe edge on my front foot? Will it be as soon as I have begun to relax the back foot? Meaning I will only be flat based for a very short time? And then, to get on my toe edge I'm going to get on my front foot toes and then slowly do the same thing on the back foot? Is that correct? And then I do the same thing to get back on the heel edge.. Put my lead foot flat and then gradually do the same thing to my back, and then get on my heel side edge with the front foot, while the back foot is flat, and then gradually go heel edge with my back foot.

So the torsional flex (having one foot relaxed and the other on an edge correct?) is going to help guide me through the turn?

To get this straight am I also going to relax my front foot before going into a new turn and again how do I know when to place my front foot on the new edge? 

So I'm basically alternating each time with my front leg as to when it will be flat and when it will be on one of the edges, while the back foot will be the opposite.. in relationship to the turns. Sorry if I'm making this confusing... 

I really do appreciate this guys, just want to get this straight for Steamboat!!


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## Mooz (Aug 14, 2007)

Your backfoot does an amazing job of following what the board and front foot just did. If you're initiating the turn with your front foot using torsional flex, the board is going to carry that "twist" to the backfoot. It kind of goes along with the situation. Just don't resist it. You're right you will be flat based for a brief period. This is important because it makes that edge change smooth and easy. Trying to change edges while skipping the flat based portion is often how you catch an edge.

To answer your question, once your front foot has gone flat based, you can begin to pressure it to the new edge. Again as long as you aren't resisting with your back foot, it will flatten out and then follow along to the new edge. Think of it like a wave. What you do with the front moves like a wave to the back. The wave in the back doesn't have to end before the next wave begins.

Another important thing to remember is to quiet your brain. You've only got 4 days in. Linking turns will develop. Just keep practicing and try not to over think it. Analyzing your every movement is the instructors job, not yours


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## huskerdye (Feb 6, 2011)

Thanks a lot guys.. The other thing I've been confused with is just how far you need to look when going toe edge.. Like I said, my instructor was a complete idiot, so I'm not sure how correct he is.. He essentially told me I need to be looking basically all the way up the mountain. Is that really necessary? If I look where I'm turning will that be good enough, or do I really need to actually turn and look up at the mountain?


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## Mooz (Aug 14, 2007)

Look where you want to go. As you get more experienced you will look further and further ahead until yes you are looking just about all the way down.

For now, look where you want to go with each turn (being mindful of other riders ahead of you). If you can see your board lift your head up. Looking down at your board is going to end in bruises


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## Mooz (Aug 14, 2007)

Snowolf said:


> Yeah, that guy sounds like a dork... The best advice that I have found that works the best for most people is simply "look where you want to go". When you are riding, it also helps a lot to look at something farther away that you can try to steer toward. Pick a tree or other object off to the side of the run and focus on it. We tend to go where we look and by looking out farther away, we tend to be more stable.


Quit copying me!


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## huskerdye (Feb 6, 2011)

Thanks again guys, Snowolf.. Could you read my first post on the second page and see if I'm understanding everything correctly.. If you can't understand what I was trying to say don't worry about it.. Then I'll be done! Thanks a whole bunch!!


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## gjsnowboarder (Sep 1, 2009)

huskerdye said:


> Thanks a lot guys.. The other thing I've been confused with is just how far you need to look when going toe edge.. Like I said, my instructor was a complete idiot, so I'm not sure how correct he is.. He essentially told me I need to be looking basically all the way up the mountain. Is that really necessary? If I look where I'm turning will that be good enough, or do I really need to actually turn and look up at the mountain?


All instructors are dorks. Comes with the territory. A lot of times with riders that are new to the sport they get laser focus on just down the hill. So advice is given to look-up the hill on your toeside. With early riders this tends to work pretty well since the ability to move your head independently from your lower body just doesn't regularly happen. It can though, increase fear because now you don't know where you are riding. Like the others I prefer to have you look where you are going.(i.e. not the end of the run, but the immediate to very next area you are traveling too!!) I usually set look-to and ride-to points that are within 15-30 ft in the snow and have them try to block out the image of all the way across or down the run. The important part is remembering finish out the turn and not always looking down the hill. That means toward the end of each turn you should be looking across the hill to slightly up it.

PS I have used the command "look up the hill" when the student is not at least looking across the hill. This let them know how far they can look rather then stopping their sight at only down the hill. Exploring how far we can make a movement while snowboarding is an essential part of progressing. It opens up possibilities.


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## fayewolf (Jan 3, 2011)

Keep at it. I had the exact same questions/issues, except that my problem was getting out of my toe side turn into heel side turn. I catch edges there alot and bam, eat shit. 

I basically had what snowolf wrote out for you here memorized and keep repeating it to myself. Once you're out on the slope, it is very easy to forget everything. Try to read it over and over again, watch his videos too, helps alot. 

Also, someone here also mentioned to assign numbers to each step, I find that very helpful as well, as to making sure I don't rush through the steps. I tend to want to get out of my toe side as soon as i can because I'm not comfortable with it, and neglecting to get my board completely flat before going to my heel side, and eat shit this way. 
My other issue is purely the fear factor, I dont like the feeling of bombing down the hill with my board flat, and my body sometimes would refuse to go flat, but it is an essential step before you can make edge changes. 

Good luck and don't give up.


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## huskerdye (Feb 6, 2011)

Thanks so much guys!!


So then, let's say I'm on my heel edge, transversing across the mountain, I can initiate that next turn when I'm almost perpendicular to the fall line then? And to do so, I relax my front foot, is the reason I'm bringing my back foot around last is so that the board will kind of skid from the back? I guess that's just how I'm picturing it.. Or is there a better way to think about it?


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## gjsnowboarder (Sep 1, 2009)

huskerdye said:


> Thanks so much guys!!
> 
> 
> So then, let's say I'm on my heel edge, transversing across the mountain, I can initiate that next turn when I'm almost perpendicular to the fall line then? And to do so, I relax my front foot, is the reason I'm bringing my back foot around last is so that the board will kind of skid from the back? I guess that's just how I'm picturing it.. Or is there a better way to think about it?


That is pretty close. Relaxing the front foot will flatten out the board. You then want to rotated your front leg and hips which will steer the board toward the fall line. Once your board is into the fall line your start to pressure your toeside edge and start tilting the board on edge progressively throught the turn. You finish up the turn by your back foot rotate along and pressuring the edge more . As you get better and can keep your CM moving through the turn you start the edging of the board earlier and earlier.


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## Norst (Jan 10, 2010)

Looking up the mountain is not a bad idea IMO. This is how I teach our beginners how to turn. When you're on toe side slipping down, you shift pressure onto your lead foot (similar to how you initiate the pendulum). As the board straightens out, you turn your hips to face uphill and allow the board to turn under you. It's like imagining your eyes are on your hips and you're looking up the hill with them. This eliminates the counter-rotation that people use so often for their toe-side turns. Once they get the idea that their body initiates and their legs follow, you obviously tell them to stop looking up the hill with their head but I emphasize keeping their entire body (knees, hips, shoulders) inline with the board.

Everyone will catch an edge when they first learn this and it's almost 100% caused by leaning back. It's 100% natural.. your board is picking up speed and you might not be comfortable with it and so you shift back and try to stop. You have to trust yourself and the board and lean into the fall-line so you stay centered. 

Here is a good vid:
YouTube - QuickRide System Steps
Skip to 6:00 if you just want to look at the turning section. When they tap on their knees, they're saying where the pressure is. So if they tap on both knees it means equal pressure, if they tap on one knee it means that's the one with the most pressure. But notice how their upper body is the first to turn and they allow their lower body to follow.

Hope that helps


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## huskerdye (Feb 6, 2011)

Okay, seriously one more question and only because I'd like to hear this from a professionals opinion..

I understand what I need to do with my feet and knees now, but what about upper body.. If I simply look in the direction of the new turn will that be enough rotation to allow for it? Or do I also need to move the hips, shoulders, and head? Or by moving the head am I really moving all three?

Sorry, just want to get everything placed together!


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## huskerdye (Feb 6, 2011)

Thanks for everything snowolf, I was wondering if I could run everything by you one more time to see if it sounds like I got this right. Heading out tomorrow and wanna make sure I have it down! Anyways, I'd really appreciate it if you could just read over this and lemmee know if I'm misunderstanding something..


So I'm going down the mountain heel side, to initiate the next turn I'm going to flatten out my front foot which will cause the nose of the board to point down the fall line, a couple seconds later I'm going to flatten my back foot causing me to be on the flat face of my board, which will cause me to go straight down the mountain? I then get on my front toes and as soon as I feel that the turn has been committed I get on my toes with my back foot, looking in the direction I want to turn and moving my shoulder over my toe edge, keeping my hands behind me. And then repeat the process for heel edge?

Some final questions..

Do I need to do anything else with my back foot other than what I described above, will that be enough to go through with the turn?

When on my heel edge, my front shoulder needs to be behind my body over the heel edge of the board correct?

Also, do I, or do I not lean with my body when going through a turn? And if so am I just going to lean to which ever turn I'm on..

Also, do I need to be in a more athletic stance throughout linking turns, or during any more should I be standing up more.. I'm still kind of confused with what to do with my upper body is what I'm saying I guess.

Any other tips guys! I don't wanna miss anything!!!


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## Toecutter (Oct 11, 2009)

huskerdye said:


> Also, I had seriously a stupid instructor my first day, he told me to ride down the mountain completely flat footed and straight. I knew this was wrong and after two huge faceplants I told him I was done with he lesson and I'd get it on my own.


Any chance this instructor was from Omaha, NE? Ha ha!


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