# Burton Ion - Speed Lace broke 4x this season



## noshadow (Apr 18, 2017)

This is my first season with Burton boots, and the first time I actually invested in nice equipment. I just purchased the Burton Ions new in January.

I had about 30 days on the mountain this season, and I broke my Burton Ion speed laces 4x in different places. I thought these were near impossible to break. So before complaining about how terrible these laces are, I wanted to see if I'm doing anything wrong. I've already asked Burton, gone into their stores to show them, but the store people at Northstar are very unhelpful (they're just a retail store rather than a flagship, so ok fine).

I keep hearing:
1. Do you rest your board on your boot? Never. I don't understand why people would keep saying I do this, nor why it would make a difference. The board can't be cutting into the lace at the top where it normally breaks.
2. Do you have superhuman strength? Not really. I work out regularly to keep in shape, but I'm not a power lifter.

This is what I do:

1. Liner I strap the velcro together
2. I tighten the inner boot lace by pulling pretty hard and sinching down the red tab
3. I pull the lower zone lace, and I pull the upper zone lace until my ankle doesn't lift

After one run, I find everything feeling pretty loose, so I'll tighten the lower and upper laces again, and they have so much slack so it feels like they loosened up (or something did)

After a second run, at the top of the lift, I'll have the same feeling, and go to tighten again. At this point, my lace either makes a popping noise (like it's going to break), or it just clean breaks off. Usually well above where it is anchored (so I can see the lace still coming out, it doesn't break inside the boot).

I have a few theories:
1. These laces suck
2. I pull too hard (but am I? I pull until it feels snug. I'm not that strong, though I regularly do deadlifts at the gym)
3. My legs/feet are too skinny, so I need to overly tighten the boot to get it fit
4. Maybe my liner needs to be tightened instead? I always assumed this wasn't a big deal to tighten.

I'd love some help! Otherwise, I'm ditching these boots and trying something with a BOA next.


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## GDimac (Nov 19, 2015)

Def give Burton Warranty a call. Im sure they can help you out one way or another, they're pretty helpful and chill people. Just let em know your situation.


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## Argo (Feb 25, 2010)

Make sure your not pulling the cord through the terth when your tightening. Angle yhem to the smooth part, pull tight and then put them in the tooth/cinch area. I broke my flows once and that change of the way I tightened them fixed the problem.


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## f00bar (Mar 6, 2014)

Roid rage.

With skinny legs make sure you do your best to get the tongue in the right position. The speed laces do a good job binding, but not so good in getting things in the right position. I think you're pulling way too tight in an effort to get the tongue in position, something that is much easier to do with your hand.

Boas will do the same thing.


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## Jonny C (Mar 16, 2017)

Your problem is not related with the lacing system. I'm using that lacing system for many many years and I didn't have 1 single issue. Burton offers a lifetime warranty for their lacing system so you will be ok when asking for warranty to Burton.
In a store, they will BS as much as they can. A warranty involves paperwork and nobody likes paperwork. So they will eventually ask you if you used a knife while tying the boots.
So you just ask the store to do their job since burton will have you covered.
If you wait for next year's Ions, you will have the BOA Ion's if you prefer BOA.
But my best guess is that you received a faulty boot, that's all.


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

noshadow said:


> I have a few theories:
> 1. These laces suck
> 2. I pull too hard (but am I? I pull until it feels snug. I'm not that strong, though I regularly do deadlifts at the gym)
> 3. My legs/feet are too skinny, so I need to overly tighten the boot to get it fit
> ...


All of the above could be true. Try to eliminate them bottom up. The liner holds your foot. The shell holds your liner... don't try to make the shell hold your foot.. 

Get your foot tight in the liner. A loose liner fit cannot be fixed by overtightening the shell. If your foot is nicely held by the liner, then the shell laces should hold well. A tiny give over a day requiring to re-tighten the liner and shell is normal, also because the liner gets warmed up by the foot, but not how you describe. So I suspect that your main problem is A) you don't tighten the liners enough or B) you're in too big liners/boots. 

I'd first check if you're in the right boot size.... What's your barefoot foot length in cm and the boot size? If the boot turns out to be too big, you may get it to fit a tad better by modifications. Do you feel heel lift? Get J-bars. Do you slip around? Get an insole with decent footbed. 

(BTW: Also a BOA can break if you overtighten to compensate for a too big boot).


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## GDimac (Nov 19, 2015)

Jonny C said:


> In a store, they will BS as much as they can. A warranty involves paperwork and nobody likes paperwork. So they will eventually ask you if you used a knife while tying the boots.
> So you just ask the store to do their job since burton will have you covered.


OP can just skip going thru the store, and call the Warranty no. on their site instead no? Much easier to deal with, from my experience at least. They do whatever they can to help you. Another reason why I don't mind sticking with the big B for most of my gear these days.


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## jstar (Sep 21, 2016)

neni said:


> All of the above could be true. Try to eliminate them bottom up. The liner holds your foot. The shell holds your liner... don't try to make the shell hold your foot..
> 
> Get your foot tight in the liner. A loose liner fit cannot be fixed by overtightening the shell. If your foot is nicely held by the liner, then the shell laces should hold well. A tiny give over a day requiring to re-tighten the liner and shell is normal, also because the liner gets warmed up by the foot, but not how you describe. So I suspect that your main problem is A) you don't tighten the liners enough or B) you're in too big liners/boots.
> 
> ...



I agree with this. The first thing I thought when I read the OP: Wrong size boots, too big.

I've used speed laces a ton, specifically on multiple Burton boots the last 4 season. Fortunately never had an issue with lacing breaks. However, I've also never had to re-tighten that often or with such force to get the proper tightness. My way of looking at it is that if the boots fit properly minimal speed lace cinching is required (especially for the lower lace portion, I really don't have to tighten that at all. But the top portion I do get pretty tight/snug though).

On the other hand, if the same lace keeps breaking in the exact same spot on the same boot, then there could be a boot defect causing wear on that specific portion of the lace...In that case... Warranty.


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## Bataleon85 (Apr 29, 2017)

Is there a particular reason you go with speed laces? Just curious. Traditionals are a lot cheaper and easier to fix than all the other lacing systems and most brands have a traditional lace version of their popular boots...except maybe Flow. They seem to be riding boa's dick hardcore these days hah

Sent from my SM-G935T using Tapatalk


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## noshadow (Apr 18, 2017)

GDimac said:


> Def give Burton Warranty a call. Im sure they can help you out one way or another, they're pretty helpful and chill people. Just let em know your situation.





GDimac said:


> OP can just skip going thru the store, and call the Warranty no. on their site instead no? Much easier to deal with, from my experience at least. They do whatever they can to help you. Another reason why I don't mind sticking with the big B for most of my gear these days.


While the hold time has been over 30 minutes long, they do try their best. I've been talking to them for awhile, but they still don't know why my boot laces keep breaking. I might send the boots in to get inspected.



Jonny C said:


> Your problem is not related with the lacing system. I'm using that lacing system for many many years and I didn't have 1 single issue. Burton offers a lifetime warranty for their lacing system so you will be ok when asking for warranty to Burton.
> In a store, they will BS as much as they can. A warranty involves paperwork and nobody likes paperwork. So they will eventually ask you if you used a knife while tying the boots.
> So you just ask the store to do their job since burton will have you covered.
> If you wait for next year's Ions, you will have the BOA Ion's if you prefer BOA.
> But my best guess is that you received a faulty boot, that's all.


That's good to know thank you!


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## noshadow (Apr 18, 2017)

Argo said:


> Make sure your not pulling the cord through the terth when your tightening. Angle yhem to the smooth part, pull tight and then put them in the tooth/cinch area. I broke my flows once and that change of the way I tightened them fixed the problem.


Yeah I had the same suspicion as well, but pulling straight up clears the laces from the teeth for sure right? I think that's how it should be designed since pulling up is the easiest motion.



f00bar said:


> Roid rage.
> 
> With skinny legs make sure you do your best to get the tongue in the right position. The speed laces do a good job binding, but not so good in getting things in the right position. I think you're pulling way too tight in an effort to get the tongue in position, something that is much easier to do with your hand.
> 
> Boas will do the same thing.


When you say the tongue in the right position, do you mean side to side, or up/down, or...?



neni said:


> All of the above could be true. Try to eliminate them bottom up. The liner holds your foot. The shell holds your liner... don't try to make the shell hold your foot..
> 
> Get your foot tight in the liner. A loose liner fit cannot be fixed by overtightening the shell. If your foot is nicely held by the liner, then the shell laces should hold well. A tiny give over a day requiring to re-tighten the liner and shell is normal, also because the liner gets warmed up by the foot, but not how you describe. So I suspect that your main problem is A) you don't tighten the liners enough or B) you're in too big liners/boots.
> 
> ...


I have the same thoughts. I only tighten the liners in the beginning. I probably need to tighten them way before tightening the shell. 

My boot size should be right, I even went into the Burton flagship store to get fitted.

I do sometimes feel heel lift and slippage, which is why I try to tighten the boot. I'll try getting j-bars and an insole. Any recommendations on where I can start researching these?



jstar said:


> I agree with this. The first thing I thought when I read the OP: Wrong size boots, too big.
> 
> I've used speed laces a ton, specifically on multiple Burton boots the last 4 season. Fortunately never had an issue with lacing breaks. However, I've also never had to re-tighten that often or with such force to get the proper tightness. My way of looking at it is that if the boots fit properly minimal speed lace cinching is required (especially for the lower lace portion, I really don't have to tighten that at all. But the top portion I do get pretty tight/snug though).
> 
> On the other hand, if the same lace keeps breaking in the exact same spot on the same boot, then there could be a boot defect causing wear on that specific portion of the lace...In that case... Warranty.


Thank you. I'm suspecting it's a case of needing to get J-Bars / insole...



Bataleon85 said:


> Is there a particular reason you go with speed laces? Just curious. Traditionals are a lot cheaper and easier to fix than all the other lacing systems and most brands have a traditional lace version of their popular boots...except maybe Flow. They seem to be riding boa's dick hardcore these days hah
> 
> Sent from my SM-G935T using Tapatalk


I've only had BOAs, and the Burton sales person sold me on the speed laces. Overall I think they're faster to start the tightening, but the overall problems with them breaking have sucked. I've never used traditional laces. Not even sure if the Burton Ions come with traditional laces.


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## noshadow (Apr 18, 2017)

Ended up just buying every possible felt thing on Tognar.

Season's over for now, but I'll probably just mess with the liners and these J, C, and butteryflies until my foot feels extremely snug without needing a ton of lace pulling.

I'll report back! Thank you all.


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## noshadow (Apr 18, 2017)

*tognar boot fitting bits*

I added the butterfly like pads on both ankles, four L-bars (2 on each side of the foot), a narrowing shim, and the tongue shim. That's a lot of stuff. But now my boot fits pretty well and the heel is pretty locked down. I'm considering adding even more padding behind my ankle possibly and maybe a bit more over the top of the ankle bone. But it's already a huge difference.

I put the tongue shim inside of my liner, since that'll allow for the inner-boot adjustment to not need to be cranked so much. I think that should work?

Also, the top of my foot is pretty hard against the top of the boot, but the area above my toes is really loose. Do you think I need a footbed or should I just get more felt and put it on the top of my liner?


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## SGboarder (Jun 24, 2012)

noshadow said:


> I put the tongue shim inside of my liner, since that'll allow for the inner-boot adjustment to not need to be cranked so much. I think that should work?


Yes.



noshadow said:


> Also, the top of my foot is pretty hard against the top of the boot, but the area above my toes is really loose. Do you think I need a footbed or should I just get more felt and put it on the top of my liner?


Do you really feel the need to address this? 'Functionally' that area should not really make a difference (do you ever want to push up against the top of your boot with your toes?) plus many people like some 'wiggle room' for their toes.
Generally I would be wary about adding too much foam into the boot. Obviously there is quite a bit that can be done around the ankle, but go easy on things like the shin shims/tongue eliminators etc. because they tend to mess with the flex profile and the boot loses response.


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## noshadow (Apr 18, 2017)

SGboarder said:


> Do you really feel the need to address this? 'Functionally' that area should not really make a difference (do you ever want to push up against the top of your boot with your toes?) plus many people like some 'wiggle room' for their toes.
> Generally I would be wary about adding too much foam into the boot. Obviously there is quite a bit that can be done around the ankle, but go easy on things like the shin shims/tongue eliminators etc. because they tend to mess with the flex profile and the boot loses response.


I definitely could be going overboard. I was going to add more on top of the foot because I was thinking it would reduce the need to tighten the lower zone of my boot as much (more pressure on the top of my foot). Thought maybe that pressure happens due to the fact I'm still overtightening?

The tongue shim seems nice, but I agree, it might not be needed afterall. My leg is pretty skinny, and the boot looks a lot more "normal" when I tighten with the tongue shim, but without it, I can get it pretty tight without a problem too. Would you recommend not going with the tongue shim?

Too bad my Vail resorts are all closed and I can't try it out


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

noshadow said:


> I definitely could be going overboard. I was going to add more on top of the foot because I was thinking it would reduce the need to tighten the lower zone of my boot as much (more pressure on the top of my foot). Thought maybe that pressure happens due to the fact I'm still overtightening?
> 
> The tongue shim seems nice, but I agree, it might not be needed afterall. My leg is pretty skinny, and the boot looks a lot more "normal" when I tighten with the tongue shim, but without it, I can get it pretty tight without a problem too. Would you recommend not going with the tongue shim?
> 
> Too bad my Vail resorts are all closed and I can't try it out


Whoa that's a lot of stuff.

Bottom line is your boots don't fit. If you need to add all that stuff... you have the wrong boots.

Even if you got Boas... you would break the cables.

I have really skinny feet and even I don't have to add all that.

What is the length measurement of your foot? and what size are your boots?

You could also buy High Volume Intuiton liners.... cost about $200 so at that point might as well get properly sized boots.


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## noshadow (Apr 18, 2017)

F1EA said:


> Whoa that's a lot of stuff.
> 
> Bottom line is your boots don't fit. If you need to add all that stuff... you have the wrong boots.
> 
> ...


For some reason, I like stiff boots, so I tried every stiff boot I could find at the stores. Unfortunately, most were not stiff enough, but none also fit me well except the burton ion. I did, however, have to tighten them quite a bit as I do with all other boots. if they're really tight, they work great. The only problem is I keep breaking the laces (which again, I suspect is overtightening because as everyone else says, they never break for them).

So adding these bits help me not need to tighten so much. 

I've yet to find any stores near me (like REI) that carry any boot that's stiff enough or in the range that I'd like. They're usually mid-range boots and/or on the softer side. There is a Burton store near me, so I've been able to check out their best.

Adding these items seems to have really fixed the problem for me. Is that bad? I feel like these things are minor.

My feet aren't skinny per say. The boot fits in every way, just the heel lifts unless I tighten A LOT.


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

noshadow said:


> Adding these items seems to have really fixed the problem for me. Is that bad? I feel like these things are minor.


If it is minor to you and has fixed the problem, then that's what matters.


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