# why do people hate on burton???



## c_mack9 (Jan 9, 2009)

my buddy is a total burton whore. he spent most of the day working on his brand new burton custom bindings. the toe strap kept sliding off his toe and it took almost a half an hour to make an adjustment on it with their stupid 3 hole retarded to figure out disks. if you want something nice by burton you have to overpay for it. he loved his new burton custom board. not that there is anything wrong with it, its just not worth the money. their lower end products carry hefty price tags just to sport the name.


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## Bones (Feb 24, 2008)

lifer315 said:


> just curious i know im a beginer and all but i just noticed a lot of people hating on burton products. i did a lot of looking and comparing and they seem to make pretty decent stuff.


Overpriced and overhyped.

Their stuff isn't horrible, but on a scale of 1-10, everything is hyped and priced like it's 2-3 points higher than it really is. It's hard to blame them, they've created a market that will pay for the name. Knock $150 or so off their high-end stuff and the value equation starts to even out.


But it is hard not to shake one's head when some clone preaches the Burton gospel and yet can't name 2 other competitors. Like some beer league soccer player who'll argue that Nike makes the best cleats, but has never heard of Umbro. Or a weekend warrior camper loaded down with the latest in Coleman gear who's never heard of MSR or Sierra Designs.


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## Guest (Dec 21, 2009)

there is no reason a board needs to cost $1500 dollars


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## boardaddict (Mar 4, 2009)

c_mack9 said:


> the toe strap kept sliding off his toe and it took almost a half an hour to make an adjustment on it with their stupid 3 hole retarded to figure out disks. .


I used to have Burton bindings. It never took me 30 minutes to "make an adjustment on it with their stupid 3 hole retarded to figure out disks. Maybe the disks aren't the retarded part of the equation?


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## rgrwilco (Oct 15, 2007)

burton makes fine boards, its just that they do alot of things to give people a bad taste in their mouth. for example, the 3 hole system, the inability to put other brands bindings on their channel, the fact that you can get better quality boards for cheaper.


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## c_mack9 (Jan 9, 2009)

boardaddict said:


> I used to have Burton bindings. It never took me 30 minutes to "make an adjustment on it with their stupid 3 hole retarded to figure out disks. Maybe the disks aren't the retarded part of the equation?


i dunno, hes always had burton. i saw the disks, there are a million holes in them. why cant they just do 4 hole like everyone else?


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## BurtonAvenger (Aug 14, 2007)

Because it's fun


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## c_mack9 (Jan 9, 2009)

Haha its not like it could be better. How many cars do you see with a 3 lugnut design. If burton did a 5 hole setup, ok maybe we could possibly say it was a better idea.


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## Guest (Dec 21, 2009)

maybe because their new stuff sucks and is made as cheaply as possible while still raising the price.


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## Triple8Sol (Nov 24, 2008)

Because proprietary binding mounting inserts are a turnoff.


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## ATOTony76 (May 26, 2009)

Just like USC, way over hyped and over ranked. Their shit is decent, but they tend to get their name over marketed. Their iron wings tend to cover other, better priced and better gear. Tend to be known for their inefficient, shitty bindings and for the most part, their really crappy outer wear. Make good boards tho.


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## oliveryochest (Oct 22, 2009)

ATOTony76 said:


> Just like USC, way over hyped and over ranked. Their shit is decent, but they tend to get their name over marketed. Their iron wings tend to cover other, better priced and better gear. Tend to be known for their inefficient, shitty bindings and for the most part, their really crappy outer wear. Make good boards tho.


I use the Burton AK line outwear and never had any problems with it. Why is it so crappy. It keeps me dry.


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## ATOTony76 (May 26, 2009)

oliveryochest said:


> I use the Burton AK line outwear and never had any problems with it. Why is it so crappy. It keeps me dry.


Burton only warrantees their products if its over 200 dollars for one piece of garment, and i have had many many personal problems with their shit that its bound to tear, break etc. Their are other companies such as 686 that will fix all problems with a jacket no matter how old the product is. They warrantee everything of theirs. And if you are willing to fork out the cash for one of their jackets over 200, you are bound to have some time lost for their shit breaking all the time. 

Idk, maybe its just me. I ride 250+ days a year up on Hood and i really expect my gear to last and take a beating while doing so, and burton has failed me many times. Maybe it will do fine for the average weekend a year guy, but not for some one who is going to ride the shit out of it. 686 and Volcom are my votes in the outwear dept. There stuff can take a beating and last.


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## oliveryochest (Oct 22, 2009)

ATOTony76 said:


> Burton only warrantees their products if its over 200 dollars for one piece of garment, and i have had many many personal problems with their shit that its bound to tear, break etc. Their are other companies such as 686 that will fix all problems with a jacket no matter how old the product is. They warrantee everything of theirs. And if you are willing to fork out the cash for one of their jackets over 200, you are bound to have some time lost for their shit breaking all the time.
> 
> Idk, maybe its just me. I ride 250+ days a year up on Hood and i really expect my gear to last and take a beating while doing so, and burton has failed me many times. Maybe it will do fine for the average weekend a year guy, but not for some one who is going to ride the shit out of it. 686 and Volcom are my votes in the outwear dept. There stuff can take a beating and last.


Wow, you are one lucky guy being able to shred that much.
Where I'm from, there is no snow. So i head over to JP and shred there every winter. Shred for about 40-45 days. I never had a problem with their AK line, but maybe if i shred as much as you, I would experience it. Thank you for the explanation.


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## c_mack9 (Jan 9, 2009)

i love their clothes, i just wouldnt buy their bindings for sure, probably not their boards either unless it was super amazing.


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## Leo (Nov 24, 2009)

I find that the majority of Burton haters are just as over-zealous as the Burton fans. Burton sucks ass!!! Lib Tech rules!!! Burton bindings are overpriced!!! Union bindings rule everything in this world including your mom!!! Blah blah blah!!!

Here is another sign to look for... Burton haters who have never stepped on a Burton board or strapped into a pair of Burton bindings. Those are the "fight the machine" type people.

I've owned a Ride board and currently ride a Burton Shaun White. I love both brands of boards. My 2007 Shaun White is still going strong and I wouldn't trade it for a $1200 Burton Vapor. Well, maybe I would just to sell it and buy another Shaun White and Lib Tech Skate Banana :laugh:

Burton is over-priced. Can you get around it? Certainly. Just buy previous year models and voila! Instant price match to other brands. I picked up my board on ebay for $140 in 2007. It was the current year model just later in the season.

The vast majority of brands churn out quality stuff somewhere in their line. Some brands churn out pure quality, but those have less selections. I would never buy an entry level Burton bindings or board. Same can be said about other brands too.

As for the friend who had a problem matching a Burton binding to a Burton 3-hole... I was able to put my 2006 Flow Flite 1 with the original baseplate on a Burton, don't tell me he can't do the same with a Burton binding. That right there is the fault of your friend, not the company he is using 

Don't listen to the haters or the hypers. Just pick something *YOU* like and ride. Want to know when a company is actually bad? When someone would turn down a free board from that company (one that they have to ride and not give away). I doubt any of these Burton haters would turn down a free Burton Custom X V-Rocker. But I bet these same people would turn down anything that has to do with BitchBoards or Lamar. Actually, there are a couple of Lamar fans around here lol.


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## mallrat (Oct 27, 2009)

People hate on Burton because it's the biggest name. 

I'd be willing to bet over half the people hating on Burton have never ridden their product. Personally I was never a Burton fan, I had an older Brushie and the first year the Balance came out. I couldn't stand either board and broke my arm on the Balance. From then on I rode everything I came across except Burton's. This year I picked up last years UnInc and it's my second fav. board I've ever owned/ridden. That's 18 yrs. of riding and riding more boards than I can imagine. 

I'm still not a Burton honk but they make a good product, but they're not a core or cool brand. That's what it comes down to.


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## 91Yota (Oct 16, 2009)

I've always thought Burton made pretty good stuff, but like most have said already, bump the price on that tag just due to the name. The only reason I got my Burton Freestyle bindings at the end last season is because I found them as a previous season leftover on sale and was the cheapest bindings I could find haha.


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## little devil (Aug 18, 2009)

Im not a fan of the angle on the customs? high back. I like it just straight up but there bindings or at least the ones i've tried seem to have a standard forward lean.Not a fan of that at all. 

Anyone else notice this?

But! I am a fan of the 420 pack! Nice and convenient.


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## roremc (Oct 25, 2009)

I think there bindings are shit. I have not had boards etc so I will only talk about bindings.
I bought missions last year and they probably have 20 days on them and they have already had all the hardware changed on them (burton sent it out with in a week of me contacting them saying they were fucked). The highbacks move around on them. I have lost two screws out of the toe straps and one of the ratchets. 
My old ride bindings lasted about 150 days before i retired them. My own fault really I should have stayed loyal to ride.
I also have a burton board bag which has travelled internationally and that has been great!


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## zakk (Apr 21, 2008)

because their stuff doesn't perform well for us mortals. The number of days I can put on Burton gear is much lower than Rome, Flow, Oakley or just about anything else I own.


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## hanzosteel (Oct 7, 2009)

cause it's cool to rag on the old man at the top of the heap. they're the all-dominating-always-in-your-face-mega-monsterous-intergalactically-huge corporation so automatically that makes them the biggest target in the industry. big companies are considered sell-outs, aren't core, aren't cool. but i guess you can't blame the kids for turning against burton and seeking smaller, 'core' companies when burton slaps their name on everything from tampons to SUVs and constantly pushes their proprietary systems. it's the walmart/ microsoft effect - no one likes to see a monopoly forming. btw i'm waiting for the jake burton action figure with the kung fu grip and burton-mobile with heat-seeking snare net.


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## Mr. Polonia (Apr 5, 2009)

because they are broke and/or cheap and prefer to ride on their $200 board and swear that its the shit

i owned 3 boards in my life and they r all burton, along with the bindings and they r all fan-fucking-tastic

people say their bindings are cheap...well if u take care of ur equipment it will take care of u.

so many times i see people dragging their boards across parking lots or throwing them around, i guess u can afford to do that with ur cheap boards.


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## Guest (Dec 21, 2009)

roremc said:


> I think there bindings are . I have not had boards etc so I will only talk about bindings.
> I bought missions last year and they probably have 20 days on them and they have already had all the hardware changed on them (burton sent it out with in a week of me contacting them saying they were ed). The highbacks move around on them. I have lost two screws out of the toe straps and one of the ratchets.
> My old ride bindings lasted about 150 days before i retired them. My own fault really I should have stayed loyal to ride.
> I also have a burton board bag which has travelled internationally and that has been great!


My Burton missions have lasted me 2 seasons thus far. On my third. Still like brand new. So that sucks for you. lol.

I will never buy a Burton board though.


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## Leo (Nov 24, 2009)

hanzosteel said:


> ...constantly pushes their proprietary systems.


They actually got one right! The ICS is great with EST bindings. I recommend you demo that setup if possible. Just sucks ass that you absolutely have to get Burton EST bindings to get the full functionality. I hope they allow other companies to make bindings for ICS... far fetched as that is and that's even considering that other companies will want to do that lol.


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## Guest (Dec 21, 2009)

people will always hate the big company. but just give it 10 years and all these "core" companies will either have gone out of business or be exactly what they now go against. Burton makes great products, they didnt get where they are by putting out pure shit. and they have done more for the snowboarding industry than almost any other company. If you had a snowboard company and had an opportunity to greatly expand, would you? I bet everyone would. For the record I ride an 09 custom w/ 09 un inc bindings, they are sick. I have a pair of cartels that are 5 years old on my park board and still work great after all the abuse i put them through in the park.


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## Mr. Polonia (Apr 5, 2009)

burton IMO has come a loooong way and they tweaked out all discrepancies.
they have boards and bindings that are made specifically for each other so that way u can get the best out of them.

if u buy cheap bindings, dont expect them to perform well for aggressive riding.
soft board, soft bindings, hard board, hard bindings etc etc

We all know that SONY is a great company...they have cheap products as well as expensive ones.
they have everything for everyones budget and/or needs. U cant hate them cuz u bought a $30 walkman and it fell in the snow and broke instantly.


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## c_mack9 (Jan 9, 2009)

Mr. Polonia said:


> We all know that SONY is a great company...they have cheap products as well as expensive ones.
> they have everything for everyones budget and/or needs. U cant hate them cuz u bought a $30 walkman and it fell in the snow and broke instantly.



good point, i love sony but the sony crap tehy sell at walmart shouldnt even be called sony. i was disagreeing with everyone that said we hate em cause they are the biggest because i love nike but then when i think about it i have hated every nike shoe i have bought that was under $85. all of their expensive stuff has been great. burton may be the same but the stuff i have seen (really not much) has looked like cheap junk. i guess i just havent been exposed to the highend stuff. i will buy more of their outter wear and clothing, i like that stuff.


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## little devil (Aug 18, 2009)

Mr. Polonia said:


> i owned 3 boards in my life and they r all burton, along with the bindings and they r all fan-fucking-tastic


 So, you have alot of experience with alot of other companies eh. Seems like you've ridden it all, so of course I believe you when u say there fan-fucking-tastic. In comparison to what?

So is it alright for YOU to pay how much YOU paid so you can "swear that its the shit"


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## Leo (Nov 24, 2009)

little devil said:


> So, you have alot of experience with alot of other companies eh. Seems like you've ridden it all, so of course I believe you when u say there fan-fucking-tastic. In comparison to what?
> 
> So is it alright for YOU to pay how much YOU paid so you can "swear that its the shit"


Nowhere did he say it is the shit. He just said it is "fan-fucking-tastic".

I think you missed the whole point of what he was saying though. He's not saying Burton is the best, he is saying it worked for him beyond expectations so people that trash talk Burton are doing it just to trash talk Burton.

If it isn't broken, then why fix it? He's obviously had no reason not to purchase three Burton boards.

I always have to remind people, Burton does charge a premium for the name, but you can find them for a cheap price from previous years so it's not always fair to automatically assume that someone dropped major dough on a Burton setup.


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## Mysticfalcon (Nov 27, 2007)

I love the burton bindings. to me noone else has the forward lean like the burtons do. I like to ride with a lot of forward lean. I have other bindings and they all have their plusses and minuses. I usually only buy my gear on whisky militia or brociety so price isnt really much of a factor. Ive had good luck with their clothing too. I wear all burton gear right now. Ive had the cheep stuff and its cheep crap just like everyone else's cheep gear but once you get out of the budget stuff it is all pretty nice.


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## Guest (Dec 21, 2009)

Leo said:


> Nowhere did he say it is the shit. He just said it is "fan-fucking-tastic".
> 
> I think you missed the whole point of what he was saying though. He's not saying Burton is the best, he is saying it worked for him beyond expectations so people that trash talk Burton are doing it just to trash talk Burton.
> 
> ...


Yeah but I could last years Capita stuff, which is probably made better, for cheaper than I could get last years Burton stuff. The fact that I should have to get last years stuff for normal price is ridiculous.


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## Dano (Sep 16, 2009)

*No Hate Here*

My first snowboard was Burton, because I came into the sport not knowing much about it. Burton being a large well known company, put in the effort to advertise their product, and in turn got my dollar. All of the Burton gear I've had has held up amazingly well. No stories of, "I rode it for 20 days and the ratchets fell off, my toe cap snapped, it was windy and my highback lit on fire", so I've stuck with the company. You pay for a name, but you get a well produced innovative product with a strong warranty backing it up. I've ridden my buddies boards (Simms, Capita, Rome, Lib Tech, Ride, Forum) and I find for the most part a board is a board. I haven't been burnt so I'm sticking with a company I trust. 

People hating on Burton for the 3 disc bindings or ICS are kind of foolish. At the end of the day no company in any market (snowboards, cars, electronics) is out there to give you their product for cost and then have you never come back because it's compatible with their competition. They are making exclusive systems to sell more merchandise and in turn make more money. Your problem isn't with Burton, it's with Capitalism.


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## Guest (Dec 22, 2009)

i personally have never ridden burton partially because i dont have the money to ride burton. my fault? not so much. maybe if you spend a ton of money they make good stuff but i dunno. my friend had brand new burton bindings, (citizen) they broke after three days. cool? i think not. another friend also had burton bindings and they too broke after a week or two. they make nice looking stuff although ive never ridden it, so not my place to judge.


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## Sam I Am (Sep 9, 2009)

We're snowboarders. We tend to be rebillious

You can find that our roots are in rebelling against the "man" or the "machine" (Burton = Snowboarding's version of the machine). It's just a part of us. It senseless, yes; but you can find that most people are sheep. They don't quite know why the glorify or loathe the things they do, they don't really have a reason (ask people and you'll see for yourself). 

It's kind of like high school; people do things cause, and this is an unfortunate part in all aspects of life, it's cool, or it may be popular; all for the approval/"respect" of their peers.

------------------------------------

Other than that, I agree with the previous posts. They make decent gear, but it's not worth the price tag they attach. And the whole pushing capitalism on snowboarding or something like that.


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## Bones (Feb 24, 2008)

Sam I Am said:


> They make decent gear, but it's not worth the price tag they attach. And the whole pushing capitalism on snowboarding or something like that.


My biggest problem with Burton (besides the clones, but that's not Burton's problem) is that all their stuff is marketed and priced as the greatest stuff ever. I haven't got their model list for every product line memorized and I know they make a ton of everything for every price point. I just get caught (particularly on clothing) dropping $$ on the lower end of their product line and being disappointed. Every now and then I get a deal on something from their higher end line and I'm happy. I tend to stay away from them now that I've got a better handle on other company's smaller product lines. I mean, I've got a $100 to spend on some good gloves. I could buy Burton and if those gloves are last year's line on discount, I might be happy. Unless they're this year's entry level, over priced gloves, in which case they might not make it thru the season (which I find ridiculous for a $100 pair of gloves). So I usually stay away from the big B and buy those gloves from another company. Ditto for pretty much every thing else.

I saw a pair of last year's division pants on sale for $239...no liner, only 10K/10K. I don't know what's up with that price when I know I can buy this year's 686 Smarty Cargo with a liner, better waterproofing and a solid reputation for warmth and quality for the same price. For $139 though, I probably would take the chance


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## molecom (Sep 11, 2009)

Dano said:


> Your problem isn't with Burton, it's with Capitalism.


I couldn't agree more with this statement. It's amazing how many people hate successful companies that make money. I can't think of too many people that wouldn't jump at the chance to make more money - regardless of whether they would be considered sell outs.


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## Guest (Dec 22, 2009)

well it is official i picked up a 2009 burton deuce wide board (162cm red black) 2009 burton custom bindings and some burton boots all brand new grand total 375$ including tax i think i got a prety good deal??? i bought it at dicks they had a clearence sale going, on 2009 stuff cant wait to take it out


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## boarder3 (Dec 4, 2008)

Imo there are better companies out there that make quality gear for what Burton does. I dont really hate on burton I just feel that there are cheaper boards out their that work just as well if not better. 

One of the reasons Burton is succesful is the fact that everyone that either is beginning snowboarding or all they have done is watched the winter olympics, thinks that Shaun White is the gretest snowboarder ever and his sponsor must be the best brand too.(Nothing against shaun white, I just think there are definetly just as good if not better riders out there) Thats really what makes Burton all its monney. Before I knew any better after a few times at the hill I would go into snowboard shops and look only at Burton gear thinking it was the best thing ever. Not sure where Im going with all this but Burton does an excellent job of creating the illusion that their company, along with Shaun White, is snowboarding.


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## hanzosteel (Oct 7, 2009)

Dano said:


> At the end of the day no company in any market (snowboards, cars, electronics) is out there to give you their product for cost and then have you never come back because it's compatible with their competition.


except every binding manufacturer other than burton. or are there tons of other proprietary binding mounting systems out there? i know of the almost universally adopted 4-hole and burton's 3-hole and ics. burton chooses not to play nice. capitalism or greed? or maybe i misunderstood this.


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## oliveryochest (Oct 22, 2009)

boarder3 said:


> Imo there are better companies out there that make quality gear for what Burton does. I dont really hate on burton I just feel that there are cheaper boards out their that work just as well if not better.
> 
> One of the reasons Burton is succesful is the fact that everyone that either is beginning snowboarding or all they have done is watched the winter olympics, thinks that Shaun White is the gretest snowboarder ever and his sponsor must be the best brand too.(Nothing against shaun white, I just think there are definetly just as good if not better riders out there) Thats really what makes Burton all its monney. Before I knew any better after a few times at the hill I would go into snowboard shops and look only at Burton gear thinking it was the best thing ever. Not sure where Im going with all this but Burton does an excellent job of creating the illusion that their company, along with Shaun White, is snowboarding.


not everyone. Ive been riding for about 9 years. I switched through many different boards (lib, forum, gnu,but mainly burton). I go with what works for me and burton has yet to fail me. i don't like the overpricing, but whenever i get burton gear, i usually get last years models. they have great deals on those.


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## Guest (Dec 22, 2009)

oliveryochest said:


> not everyone. Ive been riding for about 9 years. I switched through many different boards (lib, forum, gnu,but mainly burton). I go with what works for me and burton has yet to fail me. i don't like the overpricing, but whenever i get burton gear, i usually get last years models. they have great deals on those.


see my post on 4th page i think i got a good deal


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## Leo (Nov 24, 2009)

boarder3 said:


> One of the reasons Burton is succesful is the fact that everyone that either is beginning snowboarding or all they have done is watched the winter olympics, thinks that Shaun White is the gretest snowboarder ever and his sponsor must be the best brand too.(Nothing against shaun white, I just think there are definetly just as good if not better riders out there) Thats really what makes Burton all its monney. Before I knew any better after a few times at the hill I would go into snowboard shops and look only at Burton gear thinking it was the best thing ever. Not sure where Im going with all this but Burton does an excellent job of creating the illusion that their company, along with Shaun White, is snowboarding.


I am a big Shaun White fan, but it is not for the reasons that many people think. You are somewhat correct about the Burton comment though. Shaun White converted me from a Ride board to a Burton board just because he rides it. It is not because I think Burton must be the best brand, in fact I do not, it's because my favorite rider designed it. Yes, there are many, many talents out there. You can't sit there and judge them in order of skill though. Everyone is excellent in their own right no matter what their style is. I see a lot of people hating on Shaun White because they think he is all about the money like they know the guy personally or something. Furthermore, 99.9% of the haters don't even watch half his movies or interviews to see past the competition aspect. Have you seen the guy riding at 11 years old? How about his heart surgery at 18 months old? Why is all of this relevant? Because it gives you an idea of why this kid strives to win everything he possibly can and amass a fortune while doing so. That right there is not some noob snowboarder becoming obsessed with Burton because he thinks Shaun White is the shit. This is a snowboarder who is inspired by this story of a carrot top look alike who shreds like there's no tomorrow. I'm sure there are more riders out there with some amazing story, but this is the one that caught my attention. Besides, I think his gear performs and looks sick as fuck. Except that new shiny silver Trench Jacket he has out this year 

Someone also said that snowboard in itself was birthed from rebellion. This might be the case, but must we all become part of the brainless snowpunk mass? America was born from butchering Native Americans and enslaving Africans, but we don't continue that do we? Well maybe we do, but certainly not in this country.

It's one thing to hate a company for valid reasons, but it's a totally different matter when you hate on them purely because they are mainstream. Some people avoid Burton for political reasons, others for the poor experience with their equipment. Then there are those that trash Burton from the bottom up just because they had a couple of friends who had their Burton bindings break or jacket fail after catching it on a sharp branch or something. Remember, Burton has the biggest market share in this market. For every Union binding you see, you're going to see 100 Burton bindings. For every NeverSummer board you see, there is going to be 300 Burton boards. For every Nomis jacket, 1000 Burton jackets. Of course you're going to see way more Burton products fail. Does that mean their products fail at a larger ratio than other companies? My money is on the word NO. How many boards do Lib Tech and NeverSummer make? How many boards does Burton make? Of course they are going to have more crap shit in their line-up.

I'm not defending Burton by any means. I personally don't have a problem with them other than their pricing on current gear especially for entry level products. In fact, I more often than not recommend other brands of boards and bindings to people. One thing I won't do is trash Burton for ignorant reasons. Do they strong arm the competition? Sure. Does Microsoft do the same? You know it. Am I still typing on a PC that is running XP at work? You BETCHA! Call me a pessimistic, but me not buying Burton gear isn't going to affect the company. That only works against small companies like NeverSummer and Capita. Burton has already planted it's roots all over the world and it runs too deep to uproot.

For the people who don't use Burton based on principal, I commend you. You have a great reason not to use Burton products. To those trash talking Burton because your friend is doing the same? How about you stop talking and go strap into your neon green Union Force bindings and ride away on your Capita.

Not knocking those two companies or anything, but I'm sure these haters have that setup. Maybe a Union on a NeverSummer. One of these "cool guy" brands.


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## Dano (Sep 16, 2009)

hanzosteel said:


> except every binding manufacturer other than burton. or are there tons of other proprietary binding mounting systems out there? i know of the almost universally adopted 4-hole and burton's 3-hole and ics. burton chooses not to play nice. capitalism or greed? or maybe i misunderstood this.


You'd be right if those other companies were using the 4-hole system for your benefit, but I'm afraid your convenience isn't their main concern. Their main reason for pairing with the industry standard is they can't survive without it. NeverSummer or Capita aren't using the 4-hole setup just so you can mount your 390's or Unions on your EVO-R. They are doing it because they need to be compatible with the competition or else their own products are useless. 

Burton however is a large enough company that they don't need to piggy back sales off their competition. Instead, they are designing specific bindings with specific boards in mind, and trying to sell them as a pair. It may be that they are not "being nice", or it could be that they are a self-sufficent company.


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## Mr. Polonia (Apr 5, 2009)

Today i spent $20 on a 4-pack of Gillette razors. 

I proceeded to shave my face and i cut myself. Fuck Gillette and their expensive razors...i thought that if i spend that much $$ on razors then i could shave with the razor perpendicular to my face. I guess not.

I went back to the pharmacy and bought myself a 40 pack of Bic razors for $5.99 and shaved the right way and did not cut myself.

*Moral of the story:*
dont hate on a company if it fails on u because u expected too much out of them.


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## ---NT--- (Oct 11, 2009)

Dano said:


> People hating on Burton for the 3 disc bindings or ICS are kind of foolish. At the end of the day no company in any market (snowboards, cars, electronics) is out there to give you their product for cost and then have you never come back because it's compatible with their competition. They are making exclusive systems to sell more merchandise and in turn make more money. Your problem isn't with Burton, it's with Capitalism.


Not really. The stupid 3 hole system is kinda like if Burton made cars and the port for gas intake was smaller than on all other cars so you had to go to Burton Gas Stations to fuel your car. There are standards that competing companies adopt across all types of manufacturing. The 3 hole system is just stupid. Honestly, I think Burton probably wishes they had switched to the standard years ago, but doing so now would make them lose face.


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## maf05r6 (Mar 3, 2008)

I'm not sure they are wishing they would have switched. They are putting the ICS system on a lot of their boards now that no one else is using so that is another unique thing for them. 

I don't hate them. I ride a Burton board and love it.


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## Mr. Polonia (Apr 5, 2009)

---NT--- said:


> Not really. The stupid 3 hole system is kinda like if Burton made cars and the port for gas intake was smaller than on all other cars so you had to go to Burton Gas Stations to fuel your car. There are standards that competing companies adopt across all types of manufacturing. The 3 hole system is just stupid. Honestly, I think Burton probably wishes they had switched to the standard years ago, but doing so now would make them lose face.


you people arent thinking outside the box...

You think burton makes products to please EVERYONE?? fuck no.
they know that they will still have loyal costumers either way.

They make products from a marketing stand point. Why make something that is compatible with a Lib Tech or Rome product when you can make a Burton product compatible with only Burton product. Thats how u make money.

I bet all u haters would do the same thing if u ever had to run ur own company. You would see money flying into your accounts and not think twice about satisfying all the other cry-babies.


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## ---NT--- (Oct 11, 2009)

maf05r6 said:


> I'm not sure they are wishing they would have switched. They are putting the ICS system on a lot of their boards now that no one else is using so that is another unique thing for them.


At least the ICS system has a purpose behind its unique design. If that technology pans out then that's going to be a reason for a proprietary binding system that actually benefits the consumer. The 3D system benefits Burton only, where as ICS will benefit both Burton and the customer.
I have no problem with developing proprietary technology - but the technology should enhance the product, not just hog-tie you to another product. Like Magnetraction - its purpose enhances the riding experience of the customer, it doesn't make the customer need to buy another Mervin product.


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## ---NT--- (Oct 11, 2009)

Mr. Polonia said:


> I bet all u haters would do the same thing if u ever had to run ur own company. You would see money flying into your accounts and not think twice about satisfying all the other cry-babies.


You sound really douchey in your defense of Burton. I really don't give a rats fart about Burton, no sniffles coming from me. I think most "haters" and "cry babies" are doing just fine without Burton - it's you that's doing the most crying. At least understand why people don't like your company of choice - there are valid reasons. Doesn't mean you're stupid for liking them. But when you refuse to acknowledge why some people might not like Burton it makes you look stupid.
And I actually think Burton would have had even more sales had they not used 3D. It pissed a lot of people off and made them never want to buy Burton. And there's probably a lot of people that want a Burton board, but not Burton bindings. While Burton certainly doesn't need to change (they are the most successful), I can't help but think that their 3D may have done more harm than good.


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## Leo (Nov 24, 2009)

Burton didn't always have the 3 hole setup. The whole reason for that was the stance widths. It allowed you to get 3/4 inch width adjustments. Other companies followed suit by adding more holes to their boards. Whether it was actually for the stance issue or just a marketing ploy, we'll never know. All we can do is take in Burton's explanation and speculate from there.

Now with the ICS system, you should not knock this one until you demo it. Everyone that has demoed it tells me it is a great system and that they love it. Infinite stance options that you can change without ever unstrapping your bindings. I'm not sure if they have a patent on this, which I'm guessing they do, but it would be nice to see this system on all boards someday. How many times do we mess with our stance? Wouldn't this system make it so much easy for all of us? I think so.


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## zakk (Apr 21, 2008)

what is amusing to most of us the dogged defense the Burtonites rally to in defense of thier Machine.


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## Dano (Sep 16, 2009)

One thing I've noticed is a lot of people stating they will never buy Burton products out of "principal". I wonder if the majority of these people are aware of the things Jake has done for our sport in the first place. 

It was Burton that went out and campaigned resorts to allow snowboards on the mountains to begin with. They are the ones that modified the style of the original snowboard (the snurfer) and turned it into the stick everyone sells today (in co-op with Winterstick). They have an insane team of riders that push the sport to progress, along with a strong youth program that's groomed riders like Mikkel Bang. They actively push the "green" movement from their GMP line (green mountain project) to organic low impact terrain parks consisting of rocks, stumps and logs. They give back to at risk populations like inner city youth through the Chill program, and they host insane snowboard events. 

You may not buy their products, but you have to appreciate where they've taken this sport. Jake has come a long way from being broke and building the first snowboards by hand in his garage while wearing SCUBA gear to protect his lungs from the polyurethane, to the massive company they are now. And they've brought snowboarding to a socially acceptable level along with them.


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## Dano (Sep 16, 2009)

I completely understand why people refuse to buy Burton and I have no issue with it, I'm not blindly or mindlessly defending the company. However I am arguing the thought of me being a posser or wannabe because my board says Burton on the bottom. After all, they also own Anon, R.E.D, Gravis, Analog, Forum, Special Blend, Foursquare, Jeenyus, and now Channel Islands (surfing company)


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## Leo (Nov 24, 2009)

zakk said:


> what is amusing to most of us the dogged defense the Burtonites rally to in defense of thier Machine.


Equally amusing are people that make comments like this yet they have a brand of their own that they rally in dogged defense for. Let me narrow down your setup.

A board from the Following companies:

NeverSummer

Capita

Perhaps Lib Tech if you haven't already jumped on the bandwagon that claims they are becoming Burtonish

Bindings from:

Union: Specifically Force very possibly in puke green

Rome 390 <---not going to say anything about this great piece of equipment 

My point is, everyone has a company they band in defense for. What's amusing about that? It's perfectly common and makes a whole lot of sense. I see just as many Union supporters spamming every single Flow thread plastering their Union propaganda all over their posts as I do Burton supporters. Want to know the big difference? None of these Burton fans are going into threads about other brands and calling them garbage and to buy a Burton instead.

They are happy with their Burton purchases. I still don't see the amusement you are drawing from this. Easily amused are we?

What amuses me are people who trash brands and the people who use them based off of theories and assumptions that they make about a company. Gee, I could swear you were sitting in on their meeting when they came up with the whole 3D setup. Were you there when they drew up the ideas for the ICS too?

Every single brand has followers as well as haters. Common sense. Nothing amusing about it. :cheeky4::cheeky4::cheeky4:


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## Mr. Polonia (Apr 5, 2009)

---NT--- said:


> You sound really douchey in your defense of Burton. I really don't give a rats fart about Burton, no sniffles coming from me. I think most "haters" and "cry babies" are doing just fine without Burton - it's you that's doing the most crying


no im just saying that the company does everything that they do for 2 reasons:
- to be the first pioneers of a new technology
- and to capitalize on a new revolution of snowboarding


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## Dano (Sep 16, 2009)

---NT--- said:


> At least the ICS system has a purpose behind its unique design. If that technology pans out then that's going to be a reason for a proprietary binding system that actually benefits the consumer. The 3D system benefits Burton only, where as ICS will benefit both Burton and the customer.
> I have no problem with developing proprietary technology - but the technology should enhance the product, not just hog-tie you to another product. Like Magnetraction - its purpose enhances the riding experience of the customer, it doesn't make the customer need to buy another Mervin product.


QFT, I completely agree. I'm not sure what the B's intention is for the ICS system. It is a Gimmick to force you to buy EST bindings, or a revolutionary way to mount bindings that other companies will adopt. This one could go either way, time will tell i guess


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## Leo (Nov 24, 2009)

Dano said:


> QFT, I completely agree. I'm not sure what the B's intention is for the ICS system. It is a Gimmick to force you to buy EST bindings, or a revolutionary way to mount bindings that other companies will adopt. This one could go either way, time will tell i guess


Well, the idea has been around for a while now. I forget what they're called, but it causes you to raised off the board with space between your bindings and the board. I remember seeing one a few seasons ago and thought to myself, that can't be too great for pow shreds.

So my guess is leaning towards revolutionary. I just really hope Burton allows other companies to adopt this system. It really is useless unless you have EST bindings. Here's hoping though.


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## Mr. Polonia (Apr 5, 2009)

Leo said:


> I see just as many Union supporters spamming every single Flow thread plastering their Union propaganda all over their posts as I do Burton supporters. Want to know the big difference? None of these Burton fans are going into threads about other brands and calling them garbage and to buy a Burton instead.


+1:thumbsup:

As annoying as it sounds its absolutely true. There is certainly a decent amount of NS or Union band wagon jumpers here and none of "us Burtoneers" have anything bad to say about it.

if some poor noob has a simple question about a set-up heres exactly how it goes:

Tom- Get the burton cartels for ur board because in my experience its perfect for your type of riding

Dick- Nahhh FUCK burton...my toe strap broke off and choked me down the entire run after 36hrs, get the Contrabands instead theyre the shitttt for a lot cheaper

Tom-







And so it begins

Harry- why do people hate Burton?


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## Mr. Polonia (Apr 5, 2009)

and if u think im lying check this out:

http://www.snowboardingforum.com/boards/21658-newbie-here-rate-my-1st-board.html

link #5


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## little devil (Aug 18, 2009)

What the fuck can you say bad about N.S.? lol Maybe now that there all r.c.? You'd rather have traditional camber in a park deck?

People dont talk shit on n.s. cause its pretty hard to. 

Union on the other hand talk ur ass off! Do watever I dont give a fuck, and I have forces lol.

-edit- Also I remeber when I had my seven I was running ride bindings on it, cause rides base plates were slits so u can easily use the 3 hole pattern. But!!! not have much room for stance setups lol


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## Critical_gp (Jan 3, 2008)

I used Forum Arenas on my Custom X and works great. I do understand that I'm not getting the full performance out of the board but it certainly works..
I'm not saying your saying otherwise but I see a lot of threads where people say you cant use regular bindings with ICS. You can, but its a missed opportunity.... really! 
Will be picking up ESTs as soon as they go on sale! I hope Forum adopts the EST as I have always liked their products.

To be clear, the disk that comes with the ICS boards will work with Burton and Forum regular bindings.... 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sclaI-Pnm9o

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJKQUniz1-I&feature=related




Leo said:


> Well, the idea has been around for a while now. I forget what they're called, but it causes you to raised off the board with space between your bindings and the board. I remember seeing one a few seasons ago and thought to myself, that can't be too great for pow shreds.
> 
> So my guess is leaning towards revolutionary. I just really hope Burton allows other companies to adopt this system. It really is useless unless you have EST bindings. Here's hoping though.


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## Leo (Nov 24, 2009)

Critical_gp said:


> I used Forum Arenas on my Custom X and works great. I do understand that I'm not getting the full performance out of the board but it certainly works..
> I'm not saying your saying otherwise but I see a lot of threads where people say you cant use regular bindings with ICS. You can, but its a missed opportunity.... really!
> Will be picking up ESTs as soon as they go on sale! I hope Forum adopts the EST as I have always liked their products.
> 
> ...


I know they have conversion plates. What I was saying was that it is ICS is rendered useless without EST bindings so I am hoping Burton allows other companies to take advantage of this new system. If I can't put Flows on the ICS, I won't get it lol. That's one thing I don't buy from Burton. The bindings. Oh and baselayers, and helmets, and goggles, but I do get the socks :thumbsup:


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## CaptT (Sep 23, 2009)

I buy whatever works....I ride Burton boots and bindings on a NS board....haha...see if they can live in harmony so can we!!


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## Critical_gp (Jan 3, 2008)

Burton Boards - YES, but not for the original price
Burton Bindings - No, but at some point I'll switch to EST
Burton Boots - No, they simply don't fit me right. Northwave!

I say buy the best, no matter the brand. But dont bash unless you have experience with the product.

Example. My dad hates Ferraris because they are uncomfortable. To me they are like stiff bindings, I become one with the mountain!


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## Leo (Nov 24, 2009)

CaptTenielle said:


> I buy whatever works....I ride Burton boots and bindings on a NS board....haha...see if they can live in harmony so can we!!


Would have been better if you had an NS Board, Flow bindings, and Burton boots with North Face outerwear :thumbsup:


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## Critical_gp (Jan 3, 2008)

This season I'm rocking HOLDEN and i gotta say the quality is amazing...

I never understood the Flow bindings. Why? every time I go to the shop and look at them the sales person takes me to the Unions and the Forums. I told him I might need EST and he showed me the CO2s, at $430, F that! maybe at 60% off



Leo said:


> Would have been better if you had an NS Board, Flow bindings, and Burton boots with North Face outerwear :thumbsup:


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## AWNOW (Sep 12, 2009)

Critical_gp said:


> This season I'm rocking HOLDEN and i gotta say the quality is amazing...
> 
> I never understood the Flow bindings. Why? every time I go to the shop and look at them the sales person takes me to the Unions and the Forums. I told him I might need EST and he showed me the CO2s, at $430, F that! maybe at 60% off


People that work in shops generally have promotions running to award those who sell the most of X binding, or Y board. So, if there is a union promo running and the dude gets a free set of bindings after he sells 10, you better believe those bindings are getting hyped in the store.


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## Vlaze (Nov 12, 2008)

I own some Burton clothing, but I'll never buy their boards or other gear outside of the clothing line because of their ethics and way of doing business. It's pretty amusing since some people claim that Burton lead a lot of the technology for snowboarding. Some research I read into showed they actually stole, or copied and patented the technology other manufacturers had back in the day and then tried to sue the original developers of it so they would have sole rights to it. 

For that reason of how they conduct themselves I'll never buy gear from them outside of clothing. I'm not loyal to any one manufacturer in particular and buy whatever works for me. I don't care if anyone wants to stick with Burton, Lib, Rome, whatever, is your choice alone as are my reasons.


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## m60g (Feb 27, 2009)

I don't hate on Burton, my first board was a Custom 164 back in 98'


Over the years I have come to the conclusion that there is better gear out there for less and I also don't much care for their business practices. But if someone wants Burton gear, I wouldn't dis them for it.



Having said that, they do make quality gear. Just need to lower their prices a bit


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## Guest (Dec 22, 2009)

Im very happy in getting into the sport. I just bought a Burton Mayhem and all the reviews have been great. It seems to be a great fit by the spec for me. I will get it 2morrow so will see if i truly like it. I like quality and well known brands for all my equip and toys. nothing agsinst other brands or smaller buss. I like the fact of the history, respect, place in the industry, peace of brand following and indoucements and so on you get the pick. Moost important is quality so I never snow board this my first did not know any of the brands just did some research like there stuff. there are a lot of other great brands too. Im open to all. I dont consider myself as a diehard Burton person.


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## Mr. Polonia (Apr 5, 2009)

NorthCalStar said:


> Im very happy in getting into the sport. I just bought a Burton Mayhem and all the reviews have been great. It seems to be a great fit by the spec for me. I will get it 2morrow so will see if i truly like it. I like quality and well known brands for all my equip and toys. nothing agsinst other brands or smaller buss. I like the fact of the history, respect, place in the industry, peace of brand following and indoucements and so on you get the pick. Moost important is quality so I never snow board this my first did not know any of the brands just did some research like there stuff. there are a lot of other great brands too. Im open to all. I dont consider myself as a diehard Burton person.


good for you:thumbsup: its a good buy

my first board was a burton air 07. i didnt know shit about snowboarding but Burton always stuck out, and so they got my attention.

My second board was a custom x and by then i joined this forum and listened carefully to everyones $.02. 
when i was looking for a 3rd board i was considering a lib tech but wasnt happy with the sizing and so i bought a 3rd burton haha

if i do decide on a 4th board then its def gonna be a never summer.

As much as i love burton, i stand by their products 100% but im still open to other options


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## CaptT (Sep 23, 2009)

Leo said:


> Would have been better if you had an NS Board, Flow bindings, and Burton boots with North Face outerwear :thumbsup:



Did you seriously just try to pitch me flow bindings.....say it aint't so.......got some old baseless technine's too?????







Vlaze said:


> I own some Burton clothing, but I'll never buy their boards or other gear outside of the clothing line because of their ethics and way of doing business. It's pretty amusing since some people claim that Burton lead a lot of the technology for snowboarding. Some research I read into showed they actually stole, or copied and patented the technology other manufacturers had back in the day and then tried to sue the original developers of it so they would have sole rights to it.
> 
> For that reason of how they conduct themselves I'll never buy gear from them outside of clothing. I'm not loyal to any one manufacturer in particular and buy whatever works for me. I don't care if anyone wants to stick with Burton, Lib, Rome, whatever, is your choice alone as are my reasons.



I would sell my soul to the Devil for the right gear.....


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## Leo (Nov 24, 2009)

CaptTenielle said:


> Did you seriously just try to pitch me flow bindings.....say it aint't so.......got some old baseless technine's too?????


No I didn't. I was making a joke in relation to the thread. You'd have a mix of the most praised and most bashed brands if you did my suggestion. It was all in humor. I push Flows on no one. I only give them my experience with them when they are already considering them. I haven't even recommended them to my girlfriend. She wanted them herself after seeing me strap in lol.


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## Mysticfalcon (Nov 27, 2007)

My 2nd board was a Burton Air 07. I regret selling it. It was a very good do all stick for a good price when I bought it. Of course I live in VT where I know a lot of guys who work or worked at the factory so I never pay retail. None of the shops other than the on-mountain shops ever charge retail for Burton stuff.


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## Mr. Polonia (Apr 5, 2009)

Mysticfalcon said:


> My 2nd board was a Burton Air 07. I regret selling it. It was a very good do all stick for a good price when I bought it. Of course I live in VT where I know a lot of guys who work or worked at the factory so I never pay retail. None of the shops other than the on-mountain shops ever charge retail for Burton stuff.



haha i now regret selling my air too. I sold it to a guy here on the forum, but i have 2 boards left which i will never sell and i know the guy will enjoy that board as his first, so good karma here i come


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## hanzosteel (Oct 7, 2009)

Dano said:


> You'd be right if those other companies were using the 4-hole system for your benefit, but I'm afraid your convenience isn't their main concern. Their main reason for pairing with the industry standard is they can't survive without it. NeverSummer or Capita aren't using the 4-hole setup just so you can mount your 390's or Unions on your EVO-R. They are doing it because they need to be compatible with the competition or else their own products are useless.
> 
> Burton however is a large enough company that they don't need to piggy back sales off their competition. Instead, they are designing specific bindings with specific boards in mind, and trying to sell them as a pair. It may be that they are not "being nice", or it could be that they are a self-sufficent company.


they aren't trying to be self-sufficient, they are trying to force brand loyalty upon their customers. also, you should realize that they do great things for the sport in large part because it only pads their bottom line in the long-run and re-inforces brand loyalty, especially that grom program. as you've suggested, they aren't st. snowboard because they genuinely care, they're capitalists and they were financial decisions. i agree with you, all companies are profit driven to some extent but clearly, with burton, i think it's gotten to the point where it's tarnished their image with many in the community. people aren't anxious to support a company with pure profits in mind and unfortunately, that's the image people are getting when they thumb their noses at the rest of the community and go it alone with proprietary tech. and buying up every rising or innovative company. 

having said that, i still appreciate them for raising the bar, setting the standard and putting out decent quality gear year after year. i started with and continue to support them because of that. but i'm also glad to see the backlash of some of their decisions.


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## Deviant (Dec 22, 2009)

I'll bet half the people talking about burtons business practices are the same people that buy stuff from wal-mart.

I've heard it a bit in the lift line, burton sucks, buy a NS. Frankly it makes me laugh because I don't see why someone else would care what board someone else rides. I've been riding I think 16 seasons now, the X8 with the triad ests is the first burton gear I've bought and I couldnt be happier with it. Don't get me wrong, I dont like the shady business practices, in fact I lost a great job due to a buy-out, but guess what, that's business. Don't support them, that's fine too, but all the negativity doesn't do any good to anyone.

It comes down to riding the board that fits you the best, I demo'd the board, was light and fun, so yeah, thats why I ride it, I'm not pushing a name, I am enjoying snowboarding.


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## Guest (Dec 22, 2009)

wow never thought that this thread is going to develop into a 8 page thread lol


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## Mr. Polonia (Apr 5, 2009)

BurtonX8 said:


> I'll bet half the people talking about burtons business practices are the same people that buy stuff from wal-mart.
> 
> I've heard it a bit in the lift line, burton sucks, buy a NS. Frankly it makes me laugh because I don't see why someone else would care what board someone else rides. I've been riding I think 16 seasons now, the X8 with the triad ests is the first burton gear I've bought and I couldnt be happier with it. Don't get me wrong, I dont like the shady business practices, in fact I lost a great job due to a buy-out, but guess what, that's business. Don't support them, that's fine too, but all the negativity doesn't do any good to anyone.
> 
> It comes down to riding the board that fits you the best, I demo'd the board, was light and fun, so yeah, thats why I ride it, I'm not pushing a name, I am enjoying snowboarding.


what yr x8 do u have? i have the last yrs model


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## Guest (Dec 22, 2009)

well it is official i picked up a 2009 burton deuce wide board (162cm red black) 2009 burton custom bindings and some burton boots all brand new grand total 375$ including tax i think i got a prety good deal??? i bought it at dicks they had a clearence sale going, on 2009 stuff cant wait to take it out 
i was just looking for some opinions on the setup i got
good? bad? for a beginer


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## yusoweird (Apr 6, 2009)

mallrat said:


> ...
> 
> I'd be willing to bet over half the people hating on Burton have never ridden their product. ...


I'd be willing to bet over 3/4 of the people liking Burton have never ridden other products...


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## Critical_gp (Jan 3, 2008)

I have. Tried House Formula, Burton Elite, Ride Antic, GNU CHB, Burton Custom X
The GNU was my least favorite. I kept hearing about magne traction and how good the board is. I read nothing but good reviews but I really didnt like it. I liked my Elite so decided to go with the Custom X and I cant look back... 

I'm not a loyal customer but their products have always met my expectations...



yusoweird said:


> I'd be willing to bet over 3/4 of the people liking Burton have never ridden other products...


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## Deviant (Dec 22, 2009)

> what yr x8 do u have? i have the last yrs model


I have the year before yours, bought last season. The board with the silver metal flake topcoat. Wasn't a huge amount of differences from the last 2 years models so I got the previous year for super cheap.


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## Mr. Polonia (Apr 5, 2009)

BurtonX8 said:


> I have the year before yours, bought last season. The board with the silver metal flake topcoat. Wasn't a huge amount of differences from the last 2 years models so I got the previous year for super cheap.


i bought my last spring and had to wait for winter to finally come to test it out.
Its the best thing ive ever been on.
Im actually scared to ride on my custom x since its not as forgiving as the x8. i was surprised as to how fun the board rides as well as how stable it is at high speeds.

GOD I LOVE BURTON


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## Guest (Dec 23, 2009)

yusoweird said:


> I'd be willing to bet over 3/4 of the people liking Burton have never ridden other products...


Really, because I have ridden boards from so many different companies I cant even name them all. And I have owned hardgoods from Forum, Lib Tech, Rome, Atomic, K2, Ride, 32, Salomon, and a few others. But Burton has never let me down. Until I got a new custom last year my old dominant w/ mission bindings was going strong for 4 years.


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## BurtonAvenger (Aug 14, 2007)

Is this really at 9 pages all you need to know is that opinions are like assholes everyone is one and you all stink!


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## Guest (Dec 23, 2009)

well i think i got my question answered why people talk shit about burton, the only question that no one answered me is the one about the setup i just purchesed i wanted to know if it was a decent starter setup (see above)


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## Sam I Am (Sep 9, 2009)

If it gets you down the mountain, you should be good.


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## Guest (Dec 23, 2009)

thats what i figured and for the price i think i didnt go wrong


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## Guest (Dec 23, 2009)

Its not really about the equipment they sell its about the company. Its the fact that anyone that doesn't know anything about snowboarding immediately thinks Burton when they hear the word snowboard. Like i was talking to my friend about how much i snowboard and he said "do you have a burton" and i said "no i have a capita" and he replied with "well you should get a burton, they make the best boards". And since they have such a big name they can sell their products at a way higher price and stupid people will think "since their prices are higher then the products must be better" And then people who just start snowboarding have no clue about equipment and they completely deck themselves out in burton clothing and equipment and think that they are the shit cuz they got burton stuff


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## BurtonAvenger (Aug 14, 2007)

lifer315 said:


> well i think i got my question answered why people talk shit about burton, the only question that no one answered me is the one about the setup i just purchesed i wanted to know if it was a decent starter setup (see above)


Who gives a fuck what we think you bought it and have to live with it.


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## avenged1985 (Nov 3, 2009)

capitakid15 said:


> Its not really about the equipment they sell its about the company. Its the fact that anyone that doesn't know anything about snowboarding immediately thinks Burton when they hear the word snowboard. Like i was talking to my friend about how much i snowboard and he said "do you have a burton" and i said "no i have a capita" and he replied with "well you should get a burton, they make the best boards". And since they have such a big name they can sell their products at a way higher price and stupid people will think "since their prices are higher then the products must be better" And then people who just start snowboarding have no clue about equipment and they completely deck themselves out in burton clothing and equipment and think that they are the shit cuz they got burton stuff


same thing my friend said. as soon as i mentioned snowboarding immediately he said burton


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## oliveryochest (Oct 22, 2009)

capitakid15 said:


> Its not really about the equipment they sell its about the company. Its the fact that anyone that doesn't know anything about snowboarding immediately thinks Burton when they hear the word snowboard. Like i was talking to my friend about how much i snowboard and he said "do you have a burton" and i said "no i have a capita" and he replied with "well you should get a burton, they make the best boards". And since they have such a big name they can sell their products at a way higher price and stupid people will think "since their prices are higher then the products must be better" And then people who just start snowboarding have no clue about equipment and they completely deck themselves out in burton clothing and equipment and think that they are the shit cuz they got burton stuff


im decked out in all burton gear (snowboard, bindings, boots, burton ak outerwear). Does that make me a newb?
i have been snowboarding for 9 years and used many different brands. I stick with burton because that what works for me. I get last years stuff, so i don't pay the premium that almost everyones talking about.


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## Deviant (Dec 22, 2009)

> And then people who just start snowboarding have no clue about equipment and they completely deck themselves out in burton clothing and equipment and think that they are the shit cuz they got burton stuff


Again the question is, why do you care what other people do or wear? I paid waaaaaaaaaay less than retail for my board and bindings, if people want to spend full price then let them, that's their choice. 



> Its the fact that anyone that doesn't know anything about snowboarding immediately thinks Burton when they hear the word snowboard.


By that logic, if everyone was riding a capita wouldn't that company then become the new burton in the publics eyes? What if capita was the big company everyone thought of, would you not buy their boards?

Every sport is going to have that one big named company, and yes the public will have one thing they always think of per each sport. For those of you who don't like thier stuff, don't buy it, it's as simple as that, whining about the company isn't going to change anything. Negativity doesn't solve d***.


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## PaoloSmythe (Aug 19, 2007)

lifer315 said:


> just curious i know im a beginer and all but i just noticed a lot of people hating on burton products. i did a lot of looking and comparing and they seem to make pretty decent stuff.


Burton products have always worked well for me.

One board delaminated and they replaced it for free; no stress at all.

Some items can be pricey, but their range and variety of products are enough for someone to be able to afford something. This is sound bidnis as it allows a greater predominence of brand. Something for everyone.

The reason people slag it off, is due to personal ego.

On the one hand, people who buy non-burton stuff might feel that they are being 'accused' of having bought a 'lesser' brand instead.

But ultimately, snowboarding is an activity of wannabes. Burton is a well known name, so there is no kudos in being aware of them; but to court controversy by suggesting that the biggest brand is some how inadequate, can imply that that person has greater knowledge of the snowboarding world than anyone else and thus is the ultimate 'border'.

it is bullshit. please yerself init?


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## Leo (Nov 24, 2009)

yusoweird said:


> I'd be willing to bet over 3/4 of the people liking Burton have never ridden other products...


How does it feel to know that you posted such a fail comment :laugh::laugh::laugh:

I have also tried other boards. In fact, my first board was a Ride Control which I liked just fine as a beginner. I have a test fest coming up for the company so I'll be getting on every board that I can 

Why is it so absurd to you haters that there are people who actually prefer Burton boards over other brands? Get over it. I'm sure you have a brand preference too. Just like that guy that said "what negative thing can you possibly say about NeverSummer?" Obviously this dude thinks NeverSummer is Godly. I can't and won't say anything about that though because that's his opinion and I have not tried one out yet.

Ride whatever the fuck you want and ignore what other people ride. Why are you paying so much attention to that in the first place? Ever heard about nosy neighbors? :cheeky4:


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## little devil (Aug 18, 2009)

Leo said:


> Just like that guy that said "what negative thing can you possibly say about NeverSummer?" Obviously this dude thinks NeverSummer is Godly. I can't and won't say anything about that though because that's his opinion and I have not tried one out yet.


I think that there godly? I have yet to try mine out.... I said "What the fuck can you say bad about N.S.?" I researched reviews for alot of them and havent heard anything bad besides that they used to be heavy. So I was really just asking a question. What is wrong with n.s.?
I suggested maybe someone wouldnt like r.c. tech? By no way am I saying ur a fool if you dont like them, I just havent heard anybody say anything bad about them.

Thus why I bought one.


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## FLuiD (Jul 6, 2009)

<=========== lol I love these threads!!!


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## MunkySpunk (Jan 7, 2009)

I just don't like that they attempt to stomp out the competition with very Microsoft-esque and Monster-esque tactics. I don't shop at Wal-Mart for the same reason. Justice belongs to whomever has the largest wallet these days, and that's just not right.

Boarding doesn't come into play in my decision. I'll support the little guy, particularly if the big guy is throwing his weight around to try and force the little guy out of business. I support locally owned shops for the same reason.


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## Leo (Nov 24, 2009)

little devil said:


> I think that there godly? I have yet to try mine out.... I said "What the fuck can you say bad about N.S.?" I researched reviews for alot of them and havent heard anything bad besides that they used to be heavy. So I was really just asking a question. What is wrong with n.s.?
> I suggested maybe someone wouldnt like r.c. tech? By no way am I saying ur a fool if you dont like them, I just havent heard anybody say anything bad about them.
> 
> Thus why I bought one.


Well the way you made your comment by using words like "What the fuck can you say" really puts an emphasis on the fact that people can't say anything bad about N.S. There's only so many ways that someone can read into a typed post, after that it is up to the chosen words on the screen. Kind of like writing something in CAPS.

My comment wasn't meant to be an attack. I was saying you seem to really like N.S. and that I cannot and will not ever say anything about your opinion. How is that even possible if I have no experience with that brand. I actually want to try an NS myself 

I am making a point about how some people act towards Burton. People that have little to no experience with this company, yet they go on these anti-Burton rants like they have experience with all of their products. Hell, I had a brand new pair of Ride LXs take a shit on me after a couple of runs, but I don't trash that company because of it. I would certainly love to try out their other bindings or even another pair of LXs if given the chance. Shit happens. Burton isn't Bitchboards so get over it.


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## Guest (Dec 23, 2009)

FLuiD said:


> <=========== lol I love these threads!!!


lol i never thought it will get this long lol but thanx for the input all of you


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## Guest (Jan 24, 2010)

I can understand why experienced riders tend to avoid burton because they dont want to fit into that type of poser, noob, rich kid type of mindset that because they have Burton gear they and their stuff is better than everyone elses. It also doesnt help that burton is shaun whites #1 sponser.

Regardless of all of that, having owned stuff from other companies like Rome, Salomon and Ride I still think Burton makes the best quality products. I currently ride a Burton board and bindings and I dont care if people give me a hard time about it. All I care about is the product not the lable I get for using it.


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## Critical_gp (Jan 3, 2008)

BigSteveXV said:


> I can understand why experienced riders tend to avoid burton because they dont want to fit into that type of poser, noob, rich kid type of mindset that because they have Burton gear they and their stuff is better than everyone elses. It also doesnt help that burton is shaun whites #1 sponser.
> 
> Regardless of all of that, having owned stuff from other companies like Rome, Salomon and Ride I still think Burton makes the best quality products. I currently ride a Burton board and bindings and I dont care if people give me a hard time about it. All I care about is the product not the lable I get for using it.


I'm with you on this one. I have owned various brands of boards with Burton being the first one. I wanted to get away from being stereotyped and eventually people talking trash about burton influences you. Well, to make long story short, I was not so happy with the other brands so I went back to Burton and it was better than expected (custom X). I'm by no means a Burton Fan and I appreciate other brands stuff but when it comes to boards... I like Burton and I dont care what other people think...


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## Guest (Jan 24, 2010)

capitakid15 said:


> there is no reason a board needs to cost $1500 dollars


Yea especially when they cant back up WHY the board costs 1500 dollars. The Lib Cygnus that retails for like 1800, is insane and they tell you every single reason as to why its worth so much. 

I wouldnt buy one, but id feel more comfortable knowing why im paying so much. hand made by the big dog, signed, numbered and more tech than in your cell phone haha.


burtons hated on pretty much cause they are infamous with posers, which is one of the more common reason.
Personally i dislike them because of how mainstream they are, and ive just had great experience with lib tech. I never hear great things about burton, and they arent innovating anything, they are just following in line like everyone else. Hey look, now burton has rocker boards.....who had that first? too bad lib couldnt get that patent sooner. like mtx, no one else has it.


I dont hate on shaun white like i used too, he really is a good rider but is totally whipped by the company. His double mctwist 12 is unreal, but all you ever really see him ride in is pipe and burton videos (which i wont buy). it would really get my respect for white up big time to see him in some videos shredding back country or at least some big booters.


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## NWBoarder (Jan 10, 2010)

somebodyelse5 said:


> I dont hate on shaun white like i used too, he really is a good rider but is totally whipped by the company. His double mctwist 12 is unreal, but all you ever really see him ride in is pipe and burton videos (which i wont buy). it would really get my respect for white up big time to see him in some videos shredding back country or at least some big booters.


I just watched a movie called First Descent. This is a fantastic movie if you like snowboarding at all. Plus, and this is my reason for posting this, you get to see Shaun White ride BC in Alaska and hit a GIANT booter in said BC as well. Seriously though, check this movie out. Well worth the time it takes to watch it. :thumbsup:


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## Guest (Jan 24, 2010)

NWBoarder28 said:


> I just watched a movie called First Descent. This is a fantastic movie if you like snowboarding at all. Plus, and this is my reason for posting this, you get to see Shaun White ride BC in Alaska and hit a GIANT booter in said BC as well. Seriously though, check this movie out. Well worth the time it takes to watch it. :thumbsup:


Ill check it out. As long as its not a burton movie im all for it. Im down to watch a B movie but not pay for it lol. Ill pay for a transworld or a think thank vid (just ordered cool story  )


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## Guest (Jan 24, 2010)

lifer315 said:


> just curious i know im a beginer and all but i just noticed a lot of people hating on burton products. i did a lot of looking and comparing and they seem to make pretty decent stuff.


You could diss on any snowboard company you just have to be able to do some board hunting and find the best deal for you. My Burton is sexy and has great quality (has survived numerous rocks)! :thumbsup: It's from 2001 I believe and is in mint condition!


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## phile00 (Jan 7, 2009)

MunkySpunk said:


> I just don't like that they attempt to stomp out the competition with very Microsoft-esque and Monster-esque tactics. I don't shop at Wal-Mart for the same reason. Justice belongs to whomever has the largest wallet these days, and that's just not right.
> 
> Boarding doesn't come into play in my decision. I'll support the little guy, particularly if the big guy is throwing his weight around to try and force the little guy out of business. I support locally owned shops for the same reason.


I respect that mentality. But I do think there's a place for large corporate entities, however. Mom and Pop shops should be specialty/niche oriented. Whereas big corporate stores should be generalized, where the products/services don't need a special level of consideration or care.

Regarding snowboarding, however, I agree that there's really no place for generalization. Each rider is so different, they really need a special level of care to get everything set up and to be properly educated.


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## phile00 (Jan 7, 2009)

lifer315 said:


> just curious i know im a beginer and all but i just noticed a lot of people hating on Burton products. i did a lot of looking and comparing and they seem to make pretty decent stuff.


I can understand people being disappointed when a company changes directions/policies/etc., and expressing their feelings on the issues. But aside from that, the outright blind hatred for anything is pointless. A lot of the Burton hate is nonconstructive, overzealous, hearsay. Have a valid point regarding their policies? Awesome, lets hear it. Hate Burton and just want to rip on it? You're better off not talking. Why waste the energy?

I rock a pretty diverse setup. Bataleon and Nitro board, k2 and Flow bindings, Thirty-two boots, old Burton jacket and super old Burton gloves, Bonfire pants, Under Armor socks..


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## 91Yota (Oct 16, 2009)

somebodyelse5 said:


> Ill check it out. As long as its not a burton movie im all for it. Im down to watch a B movie but not pay for it lol. Ill pay for a transworld or a think thank vid (just ordered cool story  )



If you enjoy White with less pipe. I'd say most of his Videos outside Burton are good. First Descent being the first of him in the back country, as NWBoarder28 mentioned. And another I would suggest with him in the back country and SOME competition footage would be "The Ultimate Ride." Burton sponsored, but not Burton produced if I remember correctly.


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