# Mondo Measurement vs Real Life



## beastmodebroker (Feb 12, 2019)

I currently wear a '19 Burton Moto Boot in men's size US11
My shoe size in most shoes (Nike, Van's, Adidas) is US10
I measured my actual foot using mondo measurement of: 26.5cm length and 10.00 width (barefoot measurements)

So this puts me in a men's US size 9.0 ..... does this seem right? A boot size a FULL size smaller than shoe size?
When I tried my Burton's on in the store, the 10's were WAAAAY to small, 10.5 my toes touched and the 11's w knees slightly bent, seemed perfect.

Thinking of some better boots for next season while end of season deals are good, but I guess am confused on size I would need (thinking of some 32's)
Currently don't get any heel lift, and feet aren't sore at all after a day of riding in these boots
Ride mostly groomers, little park, mellow hits w the kiddos


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## SlvrDragon50 (Mar 25, 2017)

beastmodebroker said:


> I currently wear a '19 Burton Moto Boot in men's size US11
> My shoe size in most shoes (Nike, Van's, Adidas) is US10
> I measured my actual foot using mondo measurement of: 26.5cm length and 10.00 width (barefoot measurements)
> 
> ...


Boots are supposed to be very snug. In general, a size below street shoe size is a good starting point.


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## bazman (Jan 15, 2017)

Once you go Mondo you'll never go back.

But every boot is different and just because Mondo is right doesn't mean a particular boot will fit. You have to try on loads.

A new boot in correct Mondo size will feel snug. Ideally toes will be touching the liner gently when standing in athletic stance, but without pain


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## TheSalamander (Mar 11, 2019)

I wear 10.0 (US) typically for normal shoes and 10.5 or 11.0 for running shoes. I recently went snowboarding and wore 9.5 Burton Rental boots and ended up with a black toenail on my front toe. Albeit these were rental boots at the end of a season so are not necessarily representative.

When doing the Mondo measurement approach it showed me as a 9.0 and standard width. I tried some 9.0 Burton Step On boots in a snowboard shop and they fitted me just right. I will be buying 9.0 and using them next season based on feedback from the forum on correctly sizing boots.

Based on the numerous posts from WiredSports and peoples' feedback I am of the opinion that Mondo size for snowboarding is the right starting point for most people with the main other factor being foot width.

I am a beginner though...

TheSalamander


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## drblast (Feb 28, 2017)

Mondo is absolutely the only way to go.

However, you also have to find the right boots for you because width matters and the shape of your foot matters. And since you're finally going to be in the right size boots, you won't have that sloppy margin of error if you get the wrong boots for you.

I'm US11 in street shoes, 28cm foot length, US10 in snowboard boots. I tried a bunch of US10's on that didn't fit (Salomon, Burton, K2) and finally found that 32 TM-2's fit perfectly. They are snug when new as in they're borderline uncomfortable. Throughout the season they have packed out a bit and fit perfectly still. I've had 10.5 boots that fit really well when new, but as soon as they packed out they were too large and that really impacted the stiffness and response I got from them. (Not saying that 32 TM-2 is a good option for you. Try a bunch and find the ones that fit your foot, not mine.)


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

Ignore Mondo. It's a waste of time.

If you've already tried size US10 and they were way too small, then chances are, they are. But very likely you're just a Wide foot which happens very often. 

If you're on US11 and they fit well, with no heel lift and no pain; then that's a good starting point for next boots. Doesn't mean you'll be US11 in other boots; but you can start with US10.5 in other boots and see if you can make them work or if you're willing to go trhough the fit process. Maybe US10 in Salomon and Ride. But likely US10.5 or even US11 in Thirty Two. And nobody knows your size relative to regular shoes because people can wear almost anything in regular shoes....

In the end you'll have to go to a shop and try a few boots in different sizes and see which fit best. Specifically try Wide boots and see how small you can go in length.

You shouldn't be in any size. You should be in the size and boot that fits best.


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## RHSTi (Jan 8, 2019)

I think your feet are about E width so you should try looking into Burton Wide Boots like the Photon wide and Ruler wide.
K2 has wide boots too.


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

beastmodebroker said:


> I currently wear a '19 Burton Moto Boot in men's size US11
> My shoe size in most shoes (Nike, Van's, Adidas) is US10
> I measured my actual foot using mondo measurement of: 26.5cm length and 10.00 width (barefoot measurements)
> 
> ...


Hi BMB,

Snowboard boot size is always smaller than shoe size. 26.5 cm is Mondopoint 265. This is actually a size 8.5 US in snowboard boots. 10 cm Wide is an E width. This will require a specific Wide model. Only Salomon produces boots for E width. The Salomon Dialogue Wide and Synapse Wide are their two most popular Wide models. 

Mondopoint is the standard by which snowboard all boots by all brands are sized. Your Mondopoint size (which is your actual foot measurement in mm - no conversion) is your boot size. It is that simple. You do need to get your width correct, though, as width is equally important as length in boot fitting. If you are riding in size 10.5 or 11 boots and your measurements are correct then your boots are 2 or 2.5 sizes too large. This would be a huge issue. You will notice a dramatic increase in response, leverage and control when you go to the correct Mondopoint size. There are a host of other benefits as well. 

If you would like to post up images of your barefoot length and width measurements being taken I will be happy to confirm your measurements.

STOKED!


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## buller_scott (Jun 10, 2018)

TheSalamander said:


> Based on the numerous posts from WiredSports and peoples' feedback I am of the opinion that Mondo size for snowboarding is the right starting point for most people with *the main other factor being foot width.*


For anyone getting into the sport, who wants a basic guide, I would totally agree - whilst foot width is a factor [coming from someone with once-perceived "wide" feet, and now questioning that after arch collapse], length and comfort in-store is gonna be what I recommend to anyone I encounter, who seeks my advice from now on.



drblast said:


> Mondo is absolutely the only way to go.
> 
> However, you also have to find the right boots for you because _*width matters and the shape of your foot matters.*_


This is where I feel Angry's "you're either a (insert brand name here) foot, or you're not" thing comes into play - even with a self-diagnosed wide foot, do that many of us need to go to a "wide" model boot? With decent arch support [as opposed to the utter shit footbeds that even $600 boots ship with], it'd be interesting to see if _that_ many people actually need a wide boot, versus simply shopping around to find the brand with the right fit for their foot shape. 



F1EA said:


> Ignore Mondo. It's a waste of time.
> 
> * a] ...very likely you're just a Wide foot which happens very often.*
> 
> ...


Firstly, I totally respect your input - you're the gentleman who told me to keep the SK as sharp as I can, and I found a new love [surfing carves].

I do query not _you_ in particular, but rather the "wide foot" thing - as background, I STUPIDLY did the "barefoot shoes" thing for half a decade, decided to up the ante and go on a couple of long-distance walks.... and my arches collapsed. Prior to the subsequent proper arch support that was prescribed to me, I'd been going along with the idea that I have a "wide" foot. 

Since my collapsed arches, the pain, and the subsequent remediation, I am surprised to find that I pretty much have to can all my shoes - size 11 or 12 - that I bought on the basis of prioritising foot width. With decent arch support, my foot is pretty much fitting to almost every size 10US shoe that I try, bar the lower-volume shoes that might not fit my orthotics [to my mind, shoes that necessitate a collapsed arch in order to fit into]. 

SO:

a] do you place much stock in the idea that he [and many other people] have a "wide" foot? Or might it be that he simply hasn't tried on enough different brands' boots, to find the brand that fits his foot shape?

b]VERY interesting. On the basis of comfortable-foot-width-when-trying-on-in-store, i've bought ThirtyTwo size 11 [before my arches collapsed, when i was still dick-headedly pursuing the "barefoot" thing]. With arch support [and prior to reading these threads / Wired's posts], I'm happy in a Salomon Dialogue Wide size 10 from last season. I'm now thinking that I should try on both the 9.0 & 9.5 this coming season - something tells me that with the right arch support, people could actually go smaller than they think they should [hear that, ladies! JK IM GARGANTUAN]

c] Yes yes yes yes YES!!!!! Given the fuckaround that I've put myself through, I would totally go with that suggestion - anyone looking to get into the sport: fuck what brands you think are cool, fuck what the local kids are rocking, go to your local retail store with the best range, and try everything on, within your size range, to find what actually works for you - disregard the guy trying to pressure you to make a decision after 3 fittings [no he's not an almost-pro, he's a minimum wage earning customer service agent who might be able to regale you with a story of a season in Whistler, but he's long since sold out for a life of coffee and high rent in Melbourne], see which brand fits your foot the best, and in my opinion, importantly - don't get hung up on trying to witch-hunt "wide" boots - get some supportive footbeds, bring them to the snow store, fit them in the boots you're trying, and you might find that your foot isn't as "wide" as you think. 

Shit, I can wank on.......


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## beastmodebroker (Feb 12, 2019)

Wiredsport said:


> Hi BMB,
> 
> Snowboard boot size is always smaller than shoe size. 26.5 cm is Mondopoint 265. This is actually a size 8.5 US in snowboard boots. 10 cm Wide is an E width. This will require a specific Wide model. Only Salomon produces boots for E width. The Salomon Dialogue Wide and Synapse Wide are their two most popular Wide models.
> 
> ...


here's a few pics of the measurements I took (second time this am, slightly different results, but I feel these are more accurate). Yet still very close to what I got yesterday. Sorry for the ugly feet pics  I understand that in the end I will still have to try on a bunch of sizes, but I am intrigued by this method of foot measuring and the outcome it may have. The Burton website even recommends a size 9.0 for me based on these measurements, but Im telling you I could barely stay in the size 10.0 for 30 seconds w/out immediate foot pain. It was the length, not the width that bothers me. In fact my current Moto's are find width wise.

Look forward to your input, really appreciate it ! 


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## SlvrDragon50 (Mar 25, 2017)

How long have you had the Motos? Realize that the boots will break in a full size.

The measurements you're posting are just further confirming you're a size 9.


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## beastmodebroker (Feb 12, 2019)

SlvrDragon50 said:


> How long have you had the Motos? Realize that the boots will break in a full size.
> 
> The measurements you're posting are just further confirming you're a size 9.


Purchased them after Christmas this year, about 10 days on them or so. Did not realize they would break in a full size, holy cow.


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## SlvrDragon50 (Mar 25, 2017)

beastmodebroker said:


> Purchased them after Christmas this year, about 10 days on them or so. Did not realize they would break in a full size, holy cow.


Then I would fully expect you to start getting some heel lift in maybe 5-10 more days of riding. Honestly surprised you don't already have heel lift.

Did you get the boots heat fitted?


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## beastmodebroker (Feb 12, 2019)

SlvrDragon50 said:


> Then I would fully expect you to start getting some heel lift in maybe 5-10 more days of riding. Honestly surprised you don't already have heel lift.
> 
> Did you get the boots heat fitted?


I did not get them heat fitted. NO heel lift as of yet, but they have gotten sloppier. The tongue doesn't stay in place and digs into my shin now & they don't stay tight during the day (I have the speed zone lacing system).


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## SlvrDragon50 (Mar 25, 2017)

beastmodebroker said:


> I did not get them heat fitted. NO heel lift as of yet, but they have gotten sloppier. The tongue doesn't stay in place and digs into my shin now & they don't stay tight during the day (I have the speed zone lacing system).


Okay, then that kind of explains how your fitting is coming along then. Definitely sounds like the boot is way too big. 

Follow up question, what kind of socks are you wearing?


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## beastmodebroker (Feb 12, 2019)

SlvrDragon50 said:


> Okay, then that kind of explains how your fitting is coming along then. Definitely sounds like the boot is way too big.
> 
> Follow up question, what kind of socks are you wearing?


I have a couple pairs I wear, one is a stance, other is a LIB Tech sock. Nothing too thick at all.


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## SlvrDragon50 (Mar 25, 2017)

Okay that's good then. Well, I definitely think you should be sizing down. See what Wiredsport says, but it may help for you to describe the pain you felt as well.


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

beastmodebroker said:


> here's a few pics of the measurements I took (second time this am, slightly different results, but I feel these are more accurate). Yet still very close to what I got yesterday. Sorry for the ugly feet pics  I understand that in the end I will still have to try on a bunch of sizes, but I am intrigued by this method of foot measuring and the outcome it may have. The Burton website even recommends a size 9.0 for me based on these measurements, but Im telling you I could barely stay in the size 10.0 for 30 seconds w/out immediate foot pain. It was the length, not the width that bothers me. In fact my current Moto's are find width wise.
> 
> Look forward to your input, really appreciate it !
> 
> ...


That foot is visibly short and wide.

Go find yourself some wide boots.


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## beastmodebroker (Feb 12, 2019)

SlvrDragon50 said:


> Okay that's good then. Well, I definitely think you should be sizing down. See what Wiredsport says, but it may help for you to describe the pain you felt as well.


other than the tongue sliding around and digging in my shin, no other pain anywhere. I was just looking to upgrade the boots as I bought these on a whim the night before we left for a trip.


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## SlvrDragon50 (Mar 25, 2017)

beastmodebroker said:


> other than the tongue sliding around and digging in my shin, no other pain anywhere. I was just looking to upgrade the boots as I bought these on a whim the night before we left for a trip.


I meant when you were trying on the smaller boots since you shouldn't have pain with a correctly sized boot. It will be snug, but it shouldn't actually be causing you pain, especially not in only 30 seconds.


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## Phedder (Sep 13, 2014)

beastmodebroker said:


> I currently wear a '19 Burton Moto Boot in men's size *US11*
> My shoe size in most shoes (Nike, Van's, Adidas) is *US10*


You've already gotten plenty of good advice here, but I'll just add;

In the right boot, *NO ONE* should ever be wearing a snowboard boot larger than their street shoe. 

I'm a US11 shoe. I make a size 9 Ride boot with a 9.5 liner work perfectly, super comfortable and super supportive. I couldn't make a size 10 ThirtyTwo work, size 10 Burtons were doable but didn't feel great, Ride fits *my* foot very well.

Find the boot that fits you. I'm guessing it's not going to be a Burton.


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

beastmodebroker said:


> here's a few pics of the measurements I took (second time this am, slightly different results, but I feel these are more accurate). Yet still very close to what I got yesterday. Sorry for the ugly feet pics  I understand that in the end I will still have to try on a bunch of sizes, but I am intrigued by this method of foot measuring and the outcome it may have. The Burton website even recommends a size 9.0 for me based on these measurements, but Im telling you I could barely stay in the size 10.0 for 30 seconds w/out immediate foot pain. It was the length, not the width that bothers me. In fact my current Moto's are find width wise.
> 
> Look forward to your input, really appreciate it !


Hi BMB,

Thanks for those images. Your foot length is shy of the 27 cm line that you have drawn but it does not appear to be 26.5. The total range for Mondopoint 270 is 26.6 to 270 so that will be your size. This is size 9 US in snowboard boots. Boots that are not wide enough will also feel too short at the outer toes because of the arced shape of the toe box. The correct width will fix this issue. 

I would strongly suggest the Salomon Dialogue wide or Synapse Wide in Mondopoint 270. You won't need to try on a number of sizes or models. You are a Mondopoint 270 at E width. There are 4 options from 1 brand in that size. You are a mid range (easy fit) for this size. By that I mean that you are not pushing the limits of the range in either width or length. They will feel very different, however, than your old boots. They are supposed to. Snowboard boots are designed (all of them) to have firm pressure at both the toe and heel into the compliant materials of the liner. That is on odd sensation when you are not used to it but soon anything else will become unacceptable.

STOKED!


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## beastmodebroker (Feb 12, 2019)

Wiredsport said:


> Hi BMB,
> 
> Thanks for those images. Your foot length is shy of the 27 cm line that you have drawn but it does not appear to be 26.5. The total range for Mondopoint 270 is 26.6 to 270 so that will be your size. This is size 9 US in snowboard boots. Boots that are not wide enough will also feel too short at the outer toes because of the arced shape of the toe box. The correct width will fix this issue.
> 
> ...


I feel like the fitting process for snowboard boots is VERY similar to a hockey skate. I have played hockey my entire life, and oddly enough, I am an 8.5 in an E width for skates too.


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

beastmodebroker said:


> I feel like the fitting process for snowboard boots is VERY similar to a hockey skate. I have played hockey my entire life, and oddly enough, I am an 8.5 in an E width for skates too.


Your images would suggest size 9 (mondopoint 270). You will be size 8.5 if your actual foot measurement is between 26.1 to 26.5 cm. The range for any Mondopoint (half) size is 5mm.


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

beastmodebroker said:


> I feel like the fitting process for snowboard boots is VERY similar to a hockey skate. I have played hockey my entire life, and oddly enough, I am an 8.5 in an E width for skates too.


Wait a minute....
You already knew you were 8.5 Wide in hockey skates?? :dry:

That's 100% your starting point.


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## beastmodebroker (Feb 12, 2019)

F1EA said:


> Wait a minute....
> You already knew you were 8.5 Wide in hockey skates?? :dry:
> 
> That's 100% your starting point.


sorry ya I did .... but I clearly didn't know what was a starting point ALSO for snowboard boots. :|


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

buller_scott said:


> For anyone getting into the sport, who wants a basic guide, I would totally agree - whilst foot width is a factor [coming from someone with once-perceived "wide" feet, and now questioning that after arch collapse], length and comfort in-store is gonna be what I recommend to anyone I encounter, who seeks my advice from now on.
> 
> This is where I feel Angry's "you're either a (insert brand name here) foot, or you're not" thing comes into play - even with a self-diagnosed wide foot, do that many of us need to go to a "wide" model boot? With decent arch support [as opposed to the utter shit footbeds that even $600 boots ship with], it'd be interesting to see if _that_ many people actually need a wide boot, versus simply shopping around to find the brand with the right fit for their foot shape.
> 
> ...


hmmm
The thing is, there's a lot of little problems for each specific foot; and brands are never consistent in their boot fits.... liner thickness, width, arch support, instep height, etc. (not even same brand different model boots, let alone across different brands).

For many people it's easier to ignore your very specific measured size (also knowing you likely will make a mistake in the measurements) and instead be in a boot that otherwise fits well for whatever other reason. 

A boot that needs 3 pro fits and heat molds to avoid pain does NOT fit you well. No matter what the mondo sizing says. 
On the other hand, a boot that's 0.5 size off your 'official' size but fits your width, arches, no heel lift etc without having to go through a painful and expensive boot-fitting process (let's say at most you need insoles) can be a much better choice for lots of people. But you gotta try on the boots and be reasonable... and like you said, most importantly, do not try to make yourself fit whichever boots you think are cool or park-dude-with-scruffy-hair-and-baggy-pants says are the best boots ever.


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

beastmodebroker said:


> sorry ya I did .... but I clearly didn't know what was a starting point ALSO for snowboard boots. :|


Well, good news is.... now you know.
So I take back from before: do NOT ignore mondo size.

Don't take it as gospel, but use it as a reference. A lot of people can ignore it altogether because they already are reasonably aware of their proper size. In your case, you already have the hockey reference, so definitely start with that and... ignore mondo?  Half size bigger, half size smaller from your "official" mondo size in a boot that fits great with no pain and no heel lift, is fine...


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