# To detune or not to detune, that is the question...



## eug3fo (Sep 30, 2009)

I just got a Rome Agent Rocker (Hybrid Camber) and was wondering what the proper spots are that should be detuned? The agent also has RAZOR sharp edges and I get paranoid of them catching.


----------



## Chaos Theory (Sep 17, 2010)

I typically detune the tip and tail of every brand new board i ride, and depending on if I'm gonna ride park I will creep into the EE and between the binders..


----------



## jspecracer (Jan 11, 2011)

every new board i detune pretty heavy all around the tip and the tail (if the edge goes all the way around). then i slightly dull the rest of the board and ride it to see how it feels. if its still catchy, go back around the board again. keep repeating the process till your happy. just take a little bit at a time cause you cant put the edges back on!  I was able to detune mine pretty heavy in the middle too, but i ride a Libtech with magnatraction which makes a big difference.


----------



## eug3fo (Sep 30, 2009)

So for my Agent Rocker I should detune in between bindings and tip and tail only am I right?


----------



## zakk (Apr 21, 2008)

first thing I did to my EVO when I got it was take a file to the edges, never had it on snow until that.


----------



## eug3fo (Sep 30, 2009)

zakk said:


> first thing I did to my EVO when I got it was take a file to the edges, never had it on snow until that.


Did you file all around? Even the effective edges? I think our boards have similar so wondering what you had done.


----------



## T.J. (Aug 28, 2007)

#1. bear creek is actually a decent hill for the area. dont believe me? check out spring mount or blue marsh (now defunct...for a reason)

#2. dont get pissed if a shop wont detune a board for you. he is kind of right. they are paid (and trained) to tune boards, not file the edges off of them. some places just wont detune. the fact that they did do it at mtn creek doesnt surprise me either. 

#3 i still do this day have never detuned a board and dont have a problem riding anywhere in the park.

just my 2 cents.


----------



## thetraveler (Feb 24, 2010)

T.J. said:


> i still do this day have never detuned a board and dont have a problem riding anywhere in the park.


this. 

+ if you're catching edges riding on snow (as opposed to features like boxes and rails) then learn to ride without catching edges. fine tune your balance and edge awareness (becoming a better rider) rather than blunting your board and making it easier on yourself. my 2 cents.


----------



## PredaClone (Dec 30, 2010)

Might not be a bad idea to bring the bottom up at an angle (bevel), then put the side in at an angle to bring it back to 90... Then you're not detuning it, just moving your edge "up" a bit so it is less catchy. My Arbor came with a factory bevel of 1 degree...


----------



## 1max2nv (Feb 18, 2010)

I detune the tip and tail with a file and follow up with gummy stones. I detune the contact point with gummy stone only until the way I like it. Not too grabby but that smooth butter feel.


----------



## NYHC (Sep 27, 2009)

so it seems like you guys like to detune. because ive always rode a detuned board, i cant ride any other way. because this is the east coast and its icy a lot i think detuning helps with catching edges when its icy. 

i detuned my gf's board too and she said she likes it a lot better and she doesnt even go in the park.


----------



## bcasey (Jan 19, 2011)

I usually knock the sharp edge off the nose and tail of my boards when I get get them new. Usually about 3 inches down from the widest part of the nose and tail and I do not completely dull it down either.. Just maybe a few good strokes of a file to take the sharpness off. After that, I almost never touch my edges again unless I get a bad edge scar or jaggies, then I will try to smooth them out a bit.

I ride nothing but Lib boards so I have mag and no need to tune the nose and tail because Lib has tucked edges and not full wrap :thumbsup:

I have no problems jibbing rails without fully detuned board.. I don't know why people gimp their boards like that, but then again I am more of a freerider.. I am not much of a park rat and I do not do the urban thing.


----------



## NYHC (Sep 27, 2009)

cool. thanks. my next board is prob gonna be a lib. a lot of my friends love the magna traction. 

i dont think i noticed any difference in my handling, turning, stopping power, etc with a tuned or detuned board so i dont really understand why anyone would want sharp edges but thats just me. i can stop just as fast and turn just as good with it tuned or detuned. ive only need riding for about 6 yrs and it sounds like you have more experience than me. maybe i will understand more when i get better. thx!


----------



## BliND KiNK (Feb 22, 2010)

Lol.. I don't tune or detune my own boards yet.. but after my last trip to the local boardshop... I told them to tune/detune my board.. and told them I'd be using it to learn rails/jibs... my girlfriend picks it up for me... and I get it ... and the nose and tail are sharp as fuck.... I was just looking at the floor shaking my head... haha.. but no catches yet.. I'm pretty good about detuning the edges on ice anyways so no worries from me.


----------



## NYHC (Sep 27, 2009)

well if you told them to tune/detune it, they prob assumed you wanted it tuned. id take it back and explain it a little better. or if you like it keep it like that.


----------



## Extremo (Nov 6, 2008)

If you plan on riding rails you need to heavily detune. If you don't want to detune, don't jump on rails because they'll get jacked up once you come off early. And that's pretty stupid.


----------



## SilverSurfer (Sep 27, 2010)

bcasey said:


> I ride nothing but Lib boards so I have mag and no need to tune the nose and tail because Lib has tucked edges and not full wrap :thumbsup:


Wrong.
Libs and Gnu have an edge that goes past the contact points a couple inches. If you want a detuned board you will need to file at least down to the contact points.


----------



## bcasey (Jan 19, 2011)

SilverSurfer said:


> Wrong.
> Libs and Gnu have an edge that goes past the contact points a couple inches. If you want a detuned board you will need to file at least down to the contact points.


I am not sure what your troll is about here.. I was stating there was no point to file any further than where the edge is tucked on a Lib as most people will detune the nose and tail completely before contacts. lib/gnu do not have full wrap is all I was saying.

peace.


----------



## SilverSurfer (Sep 27, 2010)

bcasey said:


> I am not sure what your troll is about here.. I was stating there was no point to file any further than where the edge is tucked on a Lib as most people will detune the nose and tail completely before contacts. lib/gnu do not have full wrap is all I was saying.
> 
> peace.


I'm trying to help you understand the word "detuned". If you do nothing to a Gnu or Lib you are NOT riding a detuned board.
Insert "Helping you understand words guy" instead of "troll".


----------



## ylnad123 (Jan 2, 2010)

bcasey said:


> I usually knock the sharp edge off the nose and tail of my boards when I get get them new. Usually about 3 inches down from the widest part of the nose and tail and I do not completely dull it down either.. Just maybe a few good strokes of a file to take the sharpness off. After that, I almost never touch my edges again unless I get a bad edge scar or jaggies, then I will try to smooth them out a bit.
> 
> I ride nothing but Lib boards so I have mag and no need to tune the nose and tail because Lib has tucked edges and not full wrap :thumbsup:
> 
> I have no problems jibbing rails without fully detuned board.. I don't know why people gimp their boards like that, but then again I am more of a freerider.. I am not much of a park rat and I do not do the urban thing.


That thumbs up is going to do a 180 when your edge starts coming off. I wish lib will wrap the edge around the board one day.


----------



## NYHC (Sep 27, 2009)

Can anyone say whether you have more control on a board that has sharp edges? My board is detuned heavily and i really dont think it affects my turning or stopping power at all. I can still turn awesome and stop on a dime. I bought 2 new boards recently (ride antic & capita stairmaster) and rode both of them for a few runs before i took them to the tune shop and had them detuned. I didnt hook any edges but i could feel myself coming very close to hooking and catching edges. The board felt so much better when i was buttering and doing other freestyle moves after i got them detuned. 

So what is the real advantage of having sharp edges?


----------



## thetraveler (Feb 24, 2010)

NYHC said:


> So what is the real advantage of having sharp edges?


Better edge grip - it comes in very useful for advanced riding techniques, especially on hard and icy slopes


----------



## phile00 (Jan 7, 2009)

So, question:

It's obvious why boards come sharp from the factory, but why are the contact points by the tip and tail always sharp too? Let's say you're not heavy into rails (in this case you would detune the whole board) but like to hit jumps and spin. If you detune the tip and tail at the contact points right at the end of the effective edge it makes it less catchy, but still grippy for hard pack/ice. I guess I don't get why why ALL boards don't just come factory detuned at the contact points? Does it really offer up that much more turn initiation if the contact points by the tip and tail are sharp?


----------



## 1max2nv (Feb 18, 2010)

You do get a quicker and more responsive turn initiation if the contact points are sharp. But the problem with that is you have to be a perfect snowboarder at all time. If I'm indecisive or not in perfect balance when I'm scrubbing off speed. I would catch the edge on the front contact points and it would send me doing cartwheels. This applies more to traditional camber boards. With rockers, the contact points are lifted up enough that it feels like a detuned contact points of a camber board. This is another reason why rocker boards are so popular now. It's just more forgiving.



phile00 said:


> So, question:
> 
> It's obvious why boards come sharp from the factory, but why are the contact points by the tip and tail always sharp too? Let's say you're not heavy into rails (in this case you would detune the whole board) but like to hit jumps and spin. If you detune the tip and tail at the contact points right at the end of the effective edge it makes it less catchy, but still grippy for hard pack/ice. I guess I don't get why why ALL boards don't just come factory detuned at the contact points? Does it really offer up that much more turn initiation if the contact points by the tip and tail are sharp?


----------



## phile00 (Jan 7, 2009)

1max2nv said:


> You do get a quicker and more responsive turn initiation if the contact points are sharp. But the problem with that is you have to be a perfect snowboarder at all time. If I'm indecisive or not in perfect balance when I'm scrubbing off speed. I would catch the edge on the front contact points and it would send me doing cartwheels. This applies more to traditional camber boards. With rockers, the contact points are lifted up enough that it feels like a detuned contact points of a camber board. This is another reason why rocker boards are so popular now. It's just more forgiving.


Yeah, this is why Bataleon's TBT is so sweet as well. I never detuned the edges  

Regarding sharp contact points, I don't feel that the added performance it gives a rider is worth the tradeoff. All riders, even the pros fall a ton. I just think all tips/tails should be detuned unless you're riding an alpine board or something. Seems stupid to keep them sharp on a traditional cambered board.


----------



## NYHC (Sep 27, 2009)

i forgot to mention when i started this thread that i was talking about only the contact points, not the whole board. i never thought it necessary to detune the whole board. 

also, i have a traditional camber board capita stairmaster. i have never rode a rocker or a banana. 

i agree that they should be detuned at the factory for all park/freestyle boards. i mean your payin like hundreds of dollars for a board and then you take your brand new board to a tune shop and trust some guy with a file that you never met before to do it right. wow, i could imagine what a professionally factory detuned board would feel like. that would be nice.


----------



## 1max2nv (Feb 18, 2010)

You should do it yourself. You can find all the tools you need to detune at Home Depot. All you need is a file and a sanding sponge. The sanding sponge I found looks just like a gummy stone.

3M Fine to Medium All-Purpose Drywall Sanding Sponge (2-Pack) - 19093 at The Home Depot

Round the edges off at the nose and tail with the file. Follow up with the sanding sponge to get rid of the burrs you created with the file. I only use the sanding sponge on the contact points to mellow it out a bit. It's pretty easy to do.



NYHC said:


> i mean your payin like hundreds of dollars for a board and then you take your brand new board to a tune shop and trust some guy with a file that you never met before to do it right. wow, i could imagine what a professionally factory detuned board would feel like. that would be nice.


----------



## Flat4Wagon (Jan 23, 2011)

I don't detune my boards when they're new and I don't have a problem with catchy edges. :dunno:

Sounds like noob excuses to me.


----------



## init (Mar 8, 2010)

Flat4Wagon said:


> I don't detune my boards when they're new and I don't have a problem with catchy edges. :dunno:
> 
> Sounds like noob excuses to me.


/nod

One day on hard ice and my board is auto detuned. I even tune them once in a while, and never had a problem with rails/boxes catching.


----------



## NYHC (Sep 27, 2009)

Flat4Wagon said:


> I don't detune my boards when they're new and I don't have a problem with catchy edges. :dunno:
> 
> Sounds like noob excuses to me.


OMG do you work at bear creek mtn? Cause you sure sound like the D-Bag from the tune shop that i was talkin' about in my 1st post. Small world...


----------



## Extremo (Nov 6, 2008)

Too fucking funny ^^

Some people :/


----------



## phile00 (Jan 7, 2009)

Does the effective edge of a cambered snowboard typically end before the contact points? I don't want to detune any of the effective edge when I detune the contact points...


----------



## SilverSurfer (Sep 27, 2010)

phile00 said:


> So, question:
> 
> It's obvious why boards come sharp from the factory, but why are the contact points by the tip and tail always sharp too? Let's say you're not heavy into rails (in this case you would detune the whole board) but like to hit jumps and spin. If you detune the tip and tail at the contact points right at the end of the effective edge it makes it less catchy, but still grippy for hard pack/ice. I guess I don't get why why ALL boards don't just come factory detuned at the contact points? Does it really offer up that much more turn initiation if the contact points by the tip and tail are sharp?


The reason companies ship boards with sharp edges is so you can "tune" the board to your riding style. 
I tune my park board by detuning the edge 3/4 inch into the contact points. 
I tune my all mountain board by detuning the edge 1/2 inch into the contact points.
Most of my friends take the board out of the wrapper and start riding. Its all personal preference.


----------



## 1max2nv (Feb 18, 2010)

On a cambered board, put weight on the board and the effective edge are the edges that touches the snow. No weight on the board and edges that touches the snow are the contact points. Typically it's the widest width part of the board near the tip and tail.



phile00 said:


> Does the effective edge of a cambered snowboard typically end before the contact points? I don't want to detune any of the effective edge when I detune the contact points...


----------



## JMcKeone (Feb 14, 2011)

NYHC said:


> OMG do you work at bear creek mtn? Cause you sure sound like the D-Bag from the tune shop that i was talkin' about in my 1st post. Small world...


LOL, I live 30min from Bear Creek, the park is actually pretty nice with great features but some of the people there are clueless......including ski patrol.


----------



## rasmasyean (Jan 26, 2008)

NYHC said:


> Can anyone say whether you have more control on a board that has sharp edges? My board is detuned heavily and i really dont think it affects my turning or stopping power at all. I can still turn awesome and stop on a dime. I bought 2 new boards recently (ride antic & capita stairmaster) and rode both of them for a few runs before i took them to the tune shop and had them detuned. I didnt hook any edges but i could feel myself coming very close to hooking and catching edges. The board felt so much better when i was buttering and doing other freestyle moves after i got them detuned.
> 
> So what is the real advantage of having sharp edges?


It's because you don't turn in a "carve". That's where your edge acts as an ice skate and makes a thin line behind the snowboard. You prolly "skid" most of the time and speedcheck with every turn.

When you are on icy conditions, a sharp edge obviously doesn't slip out as easily. Though many ppl claim they can detune magnetraction edges and still get a decent grip on ice. I haven't tested this, but I doubt it's as good as "sharp" magnetraction edges. I mean, unless you're only detuning the valleys of the serations.

If you throw spins, and are real precise, having sharp edges can lock you into a landing and stop your rotation. But if you're not that good, detuning might help wash out a little vs. slamming on your face.


----------



## rasmasyean (Jan 26, 2008)

NYHC said:


> i forgot to mention when i started this thread that i was talking about only the contact points, not the whole board. i never thought it necessary to detune the whole board.
> 
> also, i have a traditional camber board capita stairmaster. i have never rode a rocker or a banana.
> 
> i agree that they should be detuned at the factory for all park/freestyle boards. i mean your payin like hundreds of dollars for a board and then you take your brand new board to a tune shop and trust some guy with a file that you never met before to do it right. wow, i could imagine what a professionally factory detuned board would feel like. that would be nice.


Well, that kind of adds to the cost. And you don't know how the buyer is gonna want it. It's not straight foward how to detune the tip and tail. It's personal preferance. I mean, there are "park boards", but what if a new snowboarder bought it because it's soft and forgiving. He's not gonna be doing "rails" with it.


----------



## rasmasyean (Jan 26, 2008)

1max2nv said:


> On a cambered board, put weight on the board and the effective edge are the edges that touches the snow. No weight on the board and edges that touches the snow are the contact points. Typically it's the widest width part of the board near the tip and tail.


Precisely...

_*Effective Edge*
"Effective edge is the widest point on the board, including the sidecut. It is the difference between the blend radius [the shape where the sidecut turns into the nose/tail shape] and the contact length [the part that is on the snow]. If you have a greater difference between the effective edge and the contact length, it will make the board feel more forgiving; less difference and the board will feel edgy. Freeride boards, generally, have a bigger difference between the contact length and effective edge, giving a slower, smoother response. Freestyle boards have less of a difference, giving a quicker turn response and allowing the board to ‘stand up’ more, which helps with landing spins so you don't keep spinning after you land." _

Snowboarding-Online.com | Snowboard Life Magazine | Breaking Down A Snowboard: Explaining the Terms


----------



## NYHC (Sep 27, 2009)

rasmasyean said:


> Well, that kind of adds to the cost. And you don't know how the buyer is gonna want it. It's not straight foward how to detune the tip and tail. It's personal preferance. I mean, there are "park boards", but what if a new snowboarder bought it because it's soft and forgiving. He's not gonna be doing "rails" with it.


your right, totally didnt think of that.


----------



## NYHC (Sep 27, 2009)

rasmasyean said:


> It's because you don't turn in a "carve". That's where your edge acts as an ice skate and makes a thin line behind the snowboard. You prolly "skid" most of the time and speedcheck with every turn.
> 
> When you are on icy conditions, a sharp edge obviously doesn't slip out as easily. Though many ppl claim they can detune magnetraction edges and still get a decent grip on ice. I haven't tested this, but I doubt it's as good as "sharp" magnetraction edges. I mean, unless you're only detuning the valleys of the serations.
> 
> If you throw spins, and are real precise, having sharp edges can lock you into a landing and stop your rotation. But if you're not that good, detuning might help wash out a little vs. slamming on your face.


true. i do skid most if not all of the time. 

when i 1st started riding i fucked myself because the 1st board i got was a used Custom from ebay that was already heavily detuned. so when i bought my next brand new board it felt totally weird to me. ive been riding for 7 yrs so im definitely not precise yet. i also am sure that detuning has definitely saved my ass countless times.


----------



## rasmasyean (Jan 26, 2008)

The "correct" way to tune for the park features is to do an edge bevel. 
Tognar Ski Snowboard Edge Bevel File Tools Guides Tips

Beveling is "harder" in a sense. Or you can think of just filing off your edges as a "lazy" method.
A less precise method than a bevel tool, but perhaps good enough, is to wrap the end of a file with some electric tape and this way, it will angle the file with the base edge. If you want to angle the side edge too for whatever reason, I believe you need a tool.

You can still do that tip and tail thing too. Basically, most ppl detune the "effective edge" minus "contact length"...in addition to the rest of the tip/tail. Some ppl like to detune part of the contact lenght to make it more forgiving. But when you detune the whole contact lenght...hey it's REALLY forgiving, but then you can't really carve well.


----------



## rasmasyean (Jan 26, 2008)

1max2nv said:


> You do get a quicker and more responsive turn initiation if the contact points are sharp. But the problem with that is you have to be a perfect snowboarder at all time. If I'm indecisive or not in perfect balance when I'm scrubbing off speed. I would catch the edge on the front contact points and it would send me doing cartwheels. This applies more to traditional camber boards. With rockers, the contact points are lifted up enough that it feels like a detuned contact points of a camber board. This is another reason why rocker boards are so popular now. It's just more forgiving.


It doesn't have to be all about the user being perfect, either. The terrain is not. 

So, for example, if you are say "flat-basing" or something, and you hit a patch of hard pack that is "angled", if your tip or tail is sharp, it will engage and "start a turn" in a sense. In effect this would wobble your board and might throw you off balance and then when you're trying to regain balance inadverdantly tilting your board, it will be even worse because a slight tilt with sharp tips will start a real turn in a random direction while the rest of your body is not ready for it.


----------



## AAA (Feb 2, 2008)

I've been to Bear Creek and thought it was a neat hill. I liked that the runs had turns and pitch changes, which made it interesting. The steeper middle parts of the two main blues were my favorite part of the mountain, though they were way too flat at the top and bottom. The middle parts of those trails were great carving runs, still if a little flat even there.

Anyway, I'm pretty fanatical about keeping my edges razor sharp. Less fanatical about maintaining such crazy sharpness "right" at the tip and tail. Certainly not that I detune the tip and tail, but I just don't maintain them as keenly so they release more cleanly from a carve. I've been maintaining a 0-D base / 2-D edge for a long time, and can't recall the last time I caught my downhill edge and fell. The sharper the edges, the more bite they have, and the more precision and control you have. Since you mentioned ice, that's where you REALLY want sharp edges. If someone is solely a park rider, I can see this detuning stuff to prevent an edge from snagging on burrs on a steel rail or for riders who just like to spin in there. But never for general freeriding. If someone's consistently catching edges during general freeriding down the slopes, then there's something up with their technique. Probably, they're skidding turns with too low of an edge angle (barely lifted off the snow), which would allow the downhill edge to catch if it is dipped just a little bit. 

You see that alot with beginners alot, especially on the slower green runs. Little pitch, low edge angles, slow speeds which don't generate any momentum to really allow higher edge angles... I think it's actually a little harder for beginners to keep from catching edges on a really flat slope than a green with just a little more pitch, which allows a higher edge angle just due to slope. You can often spot someone who is bound or about to catch an edge from the chairlift (on any trail pitch). The low edge angle is cue. I often cringe a second or two before they faceplant. Rounding the edges in those instances would be a crutch for the larger issue. It hinders the board's potential and would hurt their riding in the long run. 

I can see the shop's reluctance to file down the edge. They've probably seen it done in far more cases than it should have been and realize that once the edge is rounded off, that it's probably past the point of regrinding to ever sharpen again. If they do it and someone's unhappy with it...well then, yeah, the board may as well go in the garbage at that point.


----------



## rasmasyean (Jan 26, 2008)

AAA said:


> I've been to Bear Creek and thought it was a neat hill. I liked that the runs had turns and pitch changes, which made it interesting. The steeper middle parts of the two main blues were my favorite part of the mountain, though they were way too flat at the top and bottom. The middle parts of those trails were great carving runs, still if a little flat even there.
> 
> Anyway, I'm pretty fanatical about keeping my edges razor sharp. Less fanatical about maintaining such crazy sharpness "right" at the tip and tail. Certainly not that I detune the tip and tail, but I just don't maintain them as keenly so they release more cleanly from a carve. I've been maintaining a 0-D base / 2-D edge for a long time, and can't recall the last time I caught my downhill edge and fell. The sharper the edges, the more bite they have, and the more precision and control you have. Since you mentioned ice, that's where you REALLY want sharp edges. If someone is solely a park rider, I can see this detuning stuff to prevent an edge from snagging on burrs on a steel rail or for riders who just like to spin in there. But never for general freeriding. If someone's consistently catching edges during general freeriding down the slopes, then there's something up with their technique. Probably, they're skidding turns with too low of an edge angle (barely lifted off the snow), which would allow the downhill edge to catch if it is dipped just a little bit.
> 
> ...


I think this is why they recommend 2-3 degree base bevels for beginner snowboarders as well. This way, not only do they have to REALLY dip their downhill edge to catch, but they also have to lift the edge higher to skid/sideslip. So it basically doubles the "allowable error range".

As for why someone would catch edges during free riding if they are sharp, I'd imagine it's the technique. If lets say you rely mostly on skidding to change direction with little to no "carve" transition between turns, if you're not perfect in rapid edge angling from toe-to-heel, you would catch an edge while swinging your tail from left to right. It's not necessarily the "downhill edge" that catches. Simply catching an edge in the middle of the sweep from left to right can throw you off because you won't be making the turn you're expecting...especially if you lean your body in anticipation that the sweep will make it all the way across. Does that make sense?

And this too is where an edge bevel will increase the "allowable error range" so that you won't catch and edge while sweeping your board. And incidentally, this is good for park because having quick change in directions and speed checks is often required because it's more technical and a succesful trick requires you to approach precisely...vs. "freeriding" which mostly involves some wide trail. I have seen many park rats just skidding all over the place as a main technique for riding. Maybe because they also detune their edges. :laugh:


----------



## phile00 (Jan 7, 2009)

rasmasyean said:


> I think this is why they recommend 2-3 degree base bevels for beginner snowboarders as well. This way, not only do they have to REALLY dip their downhill edge to catch, but they also have to lift the edge higher to skid/sideslip. So it basically doubles the "allowable error range".
> 
> As for why someone would catch edges during free riding if they are sharp, I'd imagine it's the technique. If lets say you rely mostly on skidding to change direction with little to no "carve" transition between turns, if you're not perfect in rapid edge angling from toe-to-heel, you would catch an edge while swinging your tail from left to right. It's not necessarily the "downhill edge" that catches. Simply catching an edge in the middle of the sweep from left to right can throw you off because you won't be making the turn you're expecting...especially if you lean your body in anticipation that the sweep will make it all the way across. Does that make sense?
> 
> And this too is where an edge bevel will increase the "allowable error range" so that you won't catch and edge while sweeping your board. And incidentally, this is good for park because having quick change in directions and speed checks is often required because it's more technical and a succesful trick requires you to approach precisely...vs. "freeriding" which mostly involves some wide trail. I have seen many park rats just skidding all over the place as a main technique for riding. Maybe because they also detune their edges. :laugh:


yeah, this is why I feel I don't need to detune, except maybe for park. In terms of carving I don't need it detuned at all.


----------



## henry06x (Feb 16, 2011)

I take care of all my tuning on my stuff and im sure im not perfect or proper on anything. but as soon as a get a new board especially a park board I detune my tip and tale good so I dont catch as easy pressing. then basically just dull down the rest a little. I just take the sharp edge off..

My crusin/all mountain board I dont really detune, I just never sharpen it


----------



## ohsleeper (Oct 12, 2010)

rounding over the edge before the contact points on the nose and tail would not effect riding 99% of the time. and i would say the only reason this isnt done in the factory is because its extra time and money, and most of the population that gets on a snowboard doesnt even know that this is done.

detuning the rest of a board is a matter of preference. if you are going to have a strictly jib board then why the hell not. go ahead and round everything over. you are going to destroy your edge any way. but for a park board i personally bevel my base edge 2-3 degrees and keep them maintained that way and find it to be the best of both worlds.

as for detuning contact points i'd say its totally preference but ive done it and havent felt much of a difference...but i dont catch edges anymore.

its possible to carve with any type of edge, you will only be limited by the conditions you can do so in, and by how precision you are trying to be. i see a lot of snowboarders who dont seem to care about doing dynamic carve turns however...

and its impossible to catch anything but your downhill edge. even if you are pointed "straight" down the hill, your board still has an uphill and downhill side. fall lines are always changing, you dont have to be traversing a trail to catch an edge. actually most of the time it happens is when beginners are in the in between stage of switching edges.

/rant


----------



## rasmasyean (Jan 26, 2008)

ohsleeper said:


> rounding over the edge before the contact points on the nose and tail would not effect riding 99% of the time. and i would say the only reason this isnt done in the factory is because its extra time and money, and most of the population that gets on a snowboard doesnt even know that this is done.
> 
> detuning the rest of a board is a matter of preference. if you are going to have a strictly jib board then why the hell not. go ahead and round everything over. you are going to destroy your edge any way. but for a park board i personally bevel my base edge 2-3 degrees and keep them maintained that way and find it to be the best of both worlds.
> 
> ...


I think "riding" still benefits from detuning "before the contact points". What this is supposed to do is pretty much "delay" the initiation of the turn. The moment you tilt your board, the "edge before the contact point" will engage...moving toward the "widest point" when you tilt 90 degrees. If you detune this part, it will make going into the turn slower...and comming out of the turn faster I believe (because the edge is disengaging in the opposite direction). So if you're not in a "perfect carve" all the time, and especially if you are straightlining some slopes (including between trees), uneven terrain and even foot/boot flexibility will less likely force your board into a turn without your consent.

You can also catch an "uphill edge" in a place like moguls. If say you're traversing horizontal to the trail and there's a bump right in front of your path. You attempt to make a downhill turn but do so just before you completely clear an uphill bump. You will "catch" your uphill edge on that uphill bump and your turn will be messed up sending you right into that in-path bump and up into the air...into the trees!


----------



## phile00 (Jan 7, 2009)

rasmasyean said:


> I think "riding" still benefits from detuning "before the contact points". What this is supposed to do is pretty much "delay" the initiation of the turn. The moment you tilt your board, the "edge before the contact point" will engage...moving toward the "widest point" when you tilt 90 degrees. If you detune this part, it will make going into the turn slower...and comming out of the turn faster I believe (because the edge is disengaging in the opposite direction). So if you're not in a "perfect carve" all the time, and especially if you are straightlining some slopes (including between trees), uneven terrain and even foot/boot flexibility will less likely force your board into a turn without your consent.
> 
> You can also catch an "uphill edge" in a place like moguls. If say you're traversing horizontal to the trail and there's a bump right in front of your path. You attempt to make a downhill turn but do so just before you completely clear an uphill bump. You will "catch" your uphill edge on that uphill bump and your turn will be messed up sending you right into that in-path bump and up into the air...into the trees!


This makes a lot of sense. Good explanation.


----------



## rasmasyean (Jan 26, 2008)

One extra thing I would add about bevels is that it changes the way you need to ride the board. Like when I put a 3-degree-base-bevel on my board, it basically makes it kinda crappy going real slow. Because you have to lean MORE to engage the edge good, it’s hard to balance properly when trying to both skid and carve at extremely slow speeds. And then you need to pick up even more speed on a stiff cambered board in order for your weight to bend the board during higher tilt to give it the extra G’s to enable it to carve properly.

It still affects soft boards to an extent too. Like once my friend wasn’t really good and would mostly sideslip because he would catch an edge a lot. So I decided to give him a 3-degree-base-bevel. At first he said that it was horrible because he had “no grip and the board kept slipping out from under him”. So I told him to pick up more speed because he needed more tilt and the tiny tilt he used to use when side-slipping slowly will NOT edge at all. So he took his breath and went faster, etc. and well what do you know…he was able to link turns without catching edges! Most of the time anyway.  But we also discovered that he was feeling more stable going flat based for a decent stretch too while before, he had to try to always remain on an edge otherwise something would catch and he would slam.


----------



## rasmasyean (Jan 26, 2008)

Just by coincidence, I just had a friend that did it for the first time last weekend.
Rode a Ride Timeless (direcitonal ultrastiff bombing board). 

I emailed him...

Q: "How was detuning your tip and tail, btw? Did you notice any difference?"

A: "Huge diff! Easier to initiate turn and able to go flat without catching."


----------



## srdeo (Jan 29, 2012)

NYHC said:


> so it seems like you guys like to detune. because ive always rode a detuned board, i cant ride any other way. because this is the east coast and its icy a lot i think detuning helps with catching edges when its icy.
> 
> i detuned my gf's board too and she said she likes it a lot better and she doesnt even go in the park.


You just need to have it beveled effective edge and detuned only at tip and tail. You want sharp edges on ice not the other way around.


----------



## srdeo (Jan 29, 2012)

rasmasyean said:


> One extra thing I would add about bevels is that it changes the way you need to ride the board. Like when I put a 3-degree-base-bevel on my board, it basically makes it kinda crappy going real slow. Because you have to lean MORE to engage the edge good, it’s hard to balance properly when trying to both skid and carve at extremely slow speeds. And then you need to pick up even more speed on a stiff cambered board in order for your weight to bend the board during higher tilt to give it the extra G’s to enable it to carve properly.
> 
> It still affects soft boards to an extent too. Like once my friend wasn’t really good and would mostly sideslip because he would catch an edge a lot. So I decided to give him a 3-degree-base-bevel. At first he said that it was horrible because he had “no grip and the board kept slipping out from under him”. So I told him to pick up more speed because he needed more tilt and the tiny tilt he used to use when side-slipping slowly will NOT edge at all. So he took his breath and went faster, etc. and well what do you know…he was able to link turns without catching edges! Most of the time anyway.  But we also discovered that he was feeling more stable going flat based for a decent stretch too while before, he had to try to always remain on an edge otherwise something would catch and he would slam.


If 3 degrees worked for you , it's great, but personally i wouldn't go further than 2 degrees. As your board edge wears you are going to keep increasing base bevel and only way to kinda put them back to 3 degree is to basegrind. you can always put more bevel, but you can never put them back. I would be alot more careful with putting alot of base bevel on the board


----------



## lernr (Feb 3, 2012)

I also think 3 degrees base is pushing it.

My resort board is 2 base and 88 side right now. With 1/89 and regular park riding my edges get naturally detuned and feel great in the park but suck when I go outside. I want to be able to still have sharp edges when I need them but with minimal adverse effect for park.

I am still experimenting though...

Cheers
Ivo


----------

