# under armour vs. helly hansen



## Guest

hey... i was looking at buying a base layer, and have been considering the Under Armour 3.0 and the Helly Hansen "Warm"...
Can anyone recommend either of these?

Thanks


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## oliveryochest

afm23 said:


> hey... i was looking at buying a base layer, and have been considering the Under Armour 3.0 and the Helly Hansen "Warm"...
> Can anyone recommend either of these?
> 
> Thanks


UnderArmour coldgear is the way to go


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## Tarzanman

Under Armour Coldgear is great as a base layer. Among the best you can buy.

Haven't tried that other stuff


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## dharmashred

UA :thumbsup: I've tried many different base layers - Hansen, Hot Chillys, polartecs, the Under Armours are by far the best. I go for the relaxed fit in 2.0, classified as a midweight. Not sure what temps you are boarding in, but I would suggest the 2.0. I have the 2.0s and I hardly ever have to use a mid. Coldest temp I have boarded in with just the 2.0 base is 19f with some pretty gnarly wind to boot (like 30-35). The wicking in the UA cold gear is phenomenal, I am always dry. I also rock the UA bra and undies (ladies, the boy shorts are where it's at!!). The 3.0 layers can run you an addt'l $20-$25.00 a piece, and are meant for serious serious cold shit (could prob be used as a mid they are so warm, I would recommend trying the 2.0s first (again, depending on the temp/conditions you are boarding in. Spring boarding I was still able to rock the 2.0 pants without sweating balls. Maybe this helps a bit Under Armour Base Layer | GoBros.com


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## AWNOW

Helly Hansen base layers made of merino wool completely blow anything UA makes out of the water. There is absolutely no question merino wool keeps you warmer than shitty, petroleum based UA cold gear. The merino wool fiber warms with your body and retains heat. The UA cold gear just suppresses the heat against your skin. Make you warm up slower, holds sweat to your body (makes you colder) and you smell like a fucken douche bag...literally.

Please do not buy UA over HH.


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## hanzosteel

i've been using helly hansen/lifa lightweight stuff for years. generally, for maximum moisture wicking, you want thinner, lighter material and tighter fit. the warmth should come from your insulating layer. you can get heavyweight baselayers that try to deliver both moisture wicking and warmth but lightweight stuff transports sweat better. but i'm sure the UA lightweight stuff is just as good as the HH lightweight.


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## Leo

AWNOW said:


> Helly Hansen base layers made of merino wool completely blow anything UA makes out of the water. There is absolutely no question merino wool keeps you warmer than shitty, petroleum based UA cold gear. The merino wool fiber warms with your body and retains heat. The UA cold gear just suppresses the heat against your skin. Make you warm up slower, holds sweat to your body (makes you colder) and you smell like a fucken douche bag...literally.
> 
> Please do not buy UA over HH.


What kind of Under Armour are you wearing? I've worn Under Armour for as long as 12 hours (7 of those hours snowboarding) and never once did it smell. There's this technology in these Merino Wools and Under Armours called Anti-Microbial. It neutralizes microbial odors. Actually, for Merino Wool it comes natural.

The real difference between Merino Wool and Synthetics is that the Wool will keep you warm even if it gets damp (from sweat or snow). Under Armour however, doesn't get wet. I have never once had a problem with Under Armour getting wet. If your Under Armour is getting wet, then you are not layering correctly. Like wearing Cotton underneath or over it. Or you might also be using a jacket with poor breathability. Under Armour is practically dry straight out of the washer. I have never had to put my Under Armour in a drier. I just take it out and let it hang and it is ready to wear within an hour or less.

I also like UA for it's compression fits. I didn't like the compression fit the first time I tried it, but now I love it. I understand why they make that fit. You forget that you have it on and it really, really wicks the sweat away. However, the base 3.0 is not compression fit. It is fitted which means it is slightly looser than compression so it will not have the moisture wicking performance to the level of a compression fit. The base 3.0 is also different material. There is no nylon in the base 3.0 and is softer than the regular coldgears. It is super warm. So warm that it is comparable to the Merino Wool product.

So here is the bottom line...

Merino Wool is the best fabric for winter sports to keep you warm. Hell, it is the best fabric for anything involved with winter in that respect. The material is just plain soft. So why am I defending Under Armour? Under Armour is already expensive. Merino Wool is even more expensive. Well, at least the properly constructed Merino Wool products are. Helly Hansen is a great brand, but they don't use 100% Merino Wool. They use around 50% for their warm baselayers. If you want a good Merino Wool product and price is not an issue, consider SmartWool. They make 100% Merino wool baselayers. The last factor that makes me recommend UA over Merino is the weight. Merino is not heavy by any means, it is actually very light. Compared to UA though, it is a noticeable difference. Since you are snowboarding, I don't recommend getting the wool or base 3.0. You should get a compression fit UA, and layer over it. Again, if price is not an issue, the absolute best combination would be to get a UA compression fit 1st baselayer, and a loose fitting merino wool 2nd layer. Now that will keep you super warm and dry.

Get the UA if you want to save a few $$. Get the Merino if you have $$ growing on trees in your back yard.

Edit: I forgot to add that Merino Wool just won't have UA compression fit's level of moisture wicking performance. Plain and simple.


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## Jay29

Under Armour FTW!!!


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## Leo

Jay29 said:


> Under Armour FTW!!!


Going to hijack the thread for a second...

Nothing against you Jay, but I hate when people post bumper stickers that say shit like "Out of a job yet? Keep buying Foreign."

Especially when they drive cars like Dodge and Ford. Dodge = Mitsubishi parts in a lot of their cars and Ford uses Mazda. Funny to see that sticker on a Ford Focus when it is actually a Mazda 3.

People don't realize that imports and American products are inter-twined. Remember, imports actually stimulate our economy. The big three didn't fail because of imports. They failed because of poor judgment calls like GM nixing the EV1. Another very poor decision that was made long ago was over-saturating the market with like 50 versions of the same exact car. Wait, is that a Suburban or a Yukon... oh it has a Cadillac symbol so it's an Escalade.

Yes, foreign makers do this too, but usually only have two brands. One for the normal population and another for the luxury enabled. I really hate what happened to people with jobs here in Detroit, but it is not the fault of foreign car companies. In fact, a lot of them have manufacturing plants right here in America that employ thousands of American citizens. Governor Granholm made a mistake with Honda. She let Ohio have them. I believe the big three will come out of this a lot stronger than before. They are already starting to churn out excellent cars now. The reduction in brands was a must in my eye. There simply was no need for that. This was going to happen regardless of who buys what from where.

Sorry for hijacking and spamming this thread. As a non-Caucasian American who drives a foreign car, I feel extremely uncomfortable when people go on these types of anti-foreign rants. Especially when they are miss-informed about a subject such as buying foreign. It's bad enough that I get Bruce Lee "Wah Tahs!!!" while I walk through the mall. Now you're going to talk about the car I'm driving too? You should get your hands on an American Economics book and study the subject of importing and exporting.

Want to know the real villain??? Outsourcing and Offshoring. And guess what? American companies are the ones doing this to reduce costs so that the top execs can fatten their wallets. Dell used to be such a good quality brand. The second they started outsourcing is the second that HP took over their top spot. Not that HP doesn't do it either lol.


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## hyp0xia

Leo said:


> Going to hijack the thread for a second...
> 
> Nothing against you Jay, but I hate when people post bumper stickers that say shit like "Out of a job yet? Keep buying Foreign."
> 
> Especially when they drive cars like Dodge and Ford. Dodge = Mitsubishi parts in a lot of their cars and Ford uses Mazda. Funny to see that sticker on a Ford Focus when it is actually a Mazda 3.
> 
> People don't realize that imports and American products are inter-twined. Remember, imports actually stimulate our economy. The big three didn't fail because of imports. They failed because of poor judgment calls like GM nixing the EV1. Another very poor decision that was made long ago was over-saturating the market with like 50 versions of the same exact car. Wait, is that a Suburban or a Yukon... oh it has a Cadillac symbol so it's an Escalade.
> 
> Yes, foreign makers do this too, but usually only have two brands. One for the normal population and another for the luxury enabled. I really hate what happened to people with jobs here in Detroit, but it is not the fault of foreign car companies. In fact, a lot of them have manufacturing plants right here in America that employ thousands of American citizens. Governor Granholm made a mistake with Honda. She let Ohio have them. I believe the big three will come out of this a lot stronger than before. They are already starting to churn out excellent cars now. The reduction in brands was a must in my eye. There simply was no need for that. This was going to happen regardless of who buys what from where.
> 
> Sorry for hijacking and spamming this thread. As a non-Caucasian American who drives a foreign car, I feel extremely uncomfortable when people go on these types of anti-foreign rants. Especially when they are miss-informed about a subject such as buying foreign. It's bad enough that I get Bruce Lee "Wah Tahs!!!" while I walk through the mall. Now you're going to talk about the car I'm driving too? You should get your hands on an American Economics book and study the subject of importing and exporting.
> 
> Want to know the real villain??? Outsourcing and Offshoring. And guess what? American companies are the ones doing this to reduce costs so that the top execs can fatten their wallets. Dell used to be such a good quality brand. The second they started outsourcing is the second that HP took over their top spot. Not that HP doesn't do it either lol.


Well said, thanks.


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## AWNOW

You are going to have to be more concise if you want be to read your opinion on why dinosaur-shit based UA is better than merino wool, because to be honest I really don't give a shit if you like one of the best fibers available or not.


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## Leo

AWNOW said:


> You are going to have to be more concise if you want be to read your opinion on why dinosaur-shit based UA is better than merino wool, because to be honest I really don't give a shit if you like one of the best fibers available or not.


Calm down skippy. I never knocked Merino Wool. In fact, I said it is the best winter fabric. All I said was for the money, UA will do the job. Merino is expensive unless you get a mixture like the Helly Hansen's. And if you are balling, use the merino over a compression base-layer.

What do you have against dinosaur shit anyway? Merino comes from animals too. You don't think shit sticks to their fur?

So defensive we are. I love Merino in case you overlook that part again.

This is why you should actually read through people's post before you go attacking them for it. I really hope you aren't judging Under Armour based on the petroleum aspect alone. You sound like one of those FLOW haters who never actually tried a pair.


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## legallyillegal

lol petroleum-hating

plastic base
plastic epoxy
plastic sidewalls
plastic topsheet

plastic binding base
plastic disc
plastic highback
plastic straps
plastic ratchets (sometimes)

plastic boots!


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## Leo

legallyillegal said:


> lol petroleum-hating
> 
> plastic base
> plastic epoxy
> plastic sidewalls
> plastic topsheet
> 
> plastic binding base
> plastic disc
> plastic highback
> plastic straps
> plastic ratchets (sometimes)
> 
> plastic boots!


You forgot plastic boobs! Everyone loves those :thumbsup:


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## AWNOW

legallyillegal said:


> lol petroleum-hating
> 
> plastic base
> plastic epoxy
> plastic sidewalls
> plastic topsheet
> 
> plastic binding base
> plastic disc
> plastic highback
> plastic straps
> plastic ratchets (sometimes)
> 
> plastic boots!



Amazing that none of that is to be worn!


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## Leo

AWNOW said:


> Amazing that none of that is to be worn!


Girls wear plastic boobs!!! You wear boots too :thumbsup:


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## Tarzanman

AWNOW said:


> You are going to have to be more concise if you want be to read your opinion on why dinosaur-shit based UA is better than merino wool, because to be honest I really don't give a shit if you like one of the best fibers available or not.


How old are you? Everytime I read one of your posts, this is the mental picture I get in my mind's eye










And for the record, there isn't anything wrong with synthetics. It has its advantages and disadvantages just like other materials do.

Somehow I doubt you shred the mountain wearing a seal-skin outer shell and leather helmet.... if so, I suppose you ride your all-wooden snowboard with moccasins strapped into whale-bone bindings? LOL :laugh:


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## hanzosteel

but none of those are renewable resources which is the spirit of his merino post. they would have to be a bamboo board, recycled rubber helmet and woven grass outerwear.


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## legallyillegal

and that rubber would have had to have come from tree sap


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## AWNOW

Leo said:


> Girls wear plastic boobs!!! You wear boots too :thumbsup:


Right. There are lots of things I wear that are petroleum based. What is your point? Merino works better; and whether or not you stated that earlier is up to someone that read that dissertation 



@Tarzanman

Nothing wrong with synthetic fabrics? lol. Ok sweetheart. You and your 4 days of being outside are so cute. The only "advantage" to synthetic fibers is that they are quick drying- which they have to be as they cannot insulate when wet. If you actually think man made fibers work better than natural fibers you are displaying how ignorant you are to the outdoor world, and I suggest you keep your mouth shut or go back to wrenching on your motorcycle.

@hanzosteel

Sorry, are you really hating on me for preferring renewable resources over finite? Really? ....Really?


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## Tarzanman

Nothing insulates well when wet. Go ahead and look up the heat capacity and heat transfer coefficient for water.

There's a reason they use it in radiators (hint: it absorbs a LOT of heat).


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## AWNOW

Tarzanman said:


> Nothing insulates well when wet. Go ahead and look up the heat capacity and heat transfer coefficient for water.
> 
> There's a reason they use it in radiators (hint: it absorbs a LOT of heat).


Merino wool insulates when wet.


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## legallyillegal

i ride naked and wrap my 25 ft cock around me for warmth


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## hanzosteel

AWNOW said:


> Right. There are lots of things I wear that are petroleum based. What is your point? Merino works better; and whether or not you stated that earlier is up to someone that read that dissertation
> 
> 
> 
> @Tarzanman
> 
> Nothing wrong with synthetic fabrics? lol. Ok sweetheart. You and your 4 days of being outside are so cute. The only "advantage" to synthetic fibers is that they are quick drying- which they have to be as they cannot insulate when wet. If you actually think man made fibers work better than natural fibers you are displaying how ignorant you are to the outdoor world, and I suggest you keep your mouth shut or go back to wrenching on your motorcycle.
> 
> @hanzosteel
> 
> Sorry, are you really hating on me for preferring renewable resources over finite? Really? ....Really?


you mean preferring to go green with your gitch. it's underwear, get over yourself. merino is great but maybe you should buy synth and then buy a sense of humour with the extra change.

and when you say natural fibres work better than man-made you meant to say merino wool works better. to imply anything else makes you the ignoramus.


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## AWNOW

hanzosteel said:


> you mean preferring to go green with your gitch. it's underwear, get over yourself. merino is great but maybe you should buy synth and then buy a sense of humour with the extra change.
> 
> and when you say natural fibres work better than man-made you meant to say merino wool works better. to imply anything else makes you the ignoramus.


Why would I buy synth underwear? I ride with merino. More comfortable, works better. That statement is the exact same as telling me to use a type writer instead of word processor.

Natural fibers always work better than man made. Spend a little time outdoors and you will come to understand this.

Merino, silk, wool, down > their synthetic counterparts made for specific uses.

Hell, technology is coming along to make cotton on the micro level a water wicking machine. 

years of evolution > 50 year old synthetics. To believe anything else makes you a fucken jong.


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## Tuan209

Personally, I dont think there is much of difference between the two. I own some ice breaker merino base layers as well as UA and Nike synthetics. They both work well IMO.


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## arsenic0

This Thread -> :thumbsup:

Ive never seen someone rage so hard on the internet about fabric AWNOW lol.

For the record i have all 3 pieces of UA gear(hood/compression turtleneck, compression pants) and they have worked great all the way down to 10F for several hours out on the mountain.


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## YanTheMan

Cold gear is good but HH is better.

I remember helping my friend work on some piping in -50 celsius weather with a windchill of -60 or so, HH kept me warm the whole time! If your looking to spend alot of money on some underwear id go for HH.


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## hanzosteel

AWNOW said:


> Why would I buy synth underwear? I ride with merino. More comfortable, works better. That statement is the exact same as telling me to use a type writer instead of word processor.
> 
> Natural fibers always work better than man made. Spend a little time outdoors and you will come to understand this.
> 
> Merino, silk, wool, down > their synthetic counterparts made for specific uses.
> 
> Hell, technology is coming along to make cotton on the micro level a water wicking machine.
> 
> years of evolution > 50 year old synthetics. To believe anything else makes you a fucken jong.


easy. i'm not seriously telling you merino sucks, go buy sythn. i'm saying lighten up, take a joke. yeah, merino is ideal, but expensive. 

however, silk, wool, down, cotton - there are reasons why these materials aren't ideal choices for cold, wet activities and are not generally recommended. it's for the same reasons that merino wool is. they get colder as they get damp, they retain water, etc., etc. i'm sure tech. will find a way to alter natural fibres to work better for strenuous winter activity one day (but then is it really all that natural anymore?), but as it stands today, synth is cheaper and generally works better... with the exception of merino, which is, before you go on a rant, super-wicked-zoom-pow-awesome.


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## milner_7

Either HH or UA will work. I use both. Just buy a brand and u will stay warm.


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## DC5R

Wow, just caught this thread. I own both HH and UA gear and each have their place. Can we now all just get a long?


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## Tarzanman

AWNOW said:


> Merino wool insulates when wet.


You're wrong

http://www.sasmira.org/sportwear.pdf


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## yusoweird

AWNOW said:


> @Tarzanman
> 
> Nothing wrong with synthetic fabrics? lol. Ok sweetheart. You and your 4 days of being outside are so cute. The only "advantage" to synthetic fibers is that they are quick drying- which they have to be as they cannot insulate when wet. If you actually think man made fibers work better than natural fibers you are displaying how ignorant you are to the outdoor world, and I suggest you keep your mouth shut or go back to wrenching on your motorcycle.


You just stated one of the main reason why people like synthetic for active sports... outdoor world? you mean camping/hunting? what do you mean by outdoor world?

since you are an expert, hows the weight comparison between synthetic vs godly wool? i honestly dont know but i thought u might know it.

just to clear up my statement before you start jumping into conclusion. i said people "LIKE" synthetic... no one ever said it is better. you are really comparing between apples and candy. they are both sweet. you just happens to dislike candy? people can like one or the other, or both...


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## conwayeast

I rock UA, but I dont think you can go wrong with either.


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## AWNOW

yusoweird said:


> You just stated one of the main reason why people like synthetic for active sports... outdoor world? you mean camping/hunting? what do you mean by outdoor world?
> 
> since you are an expert, hows the weight comparison between synthetic vs godly wool? i honestly dont know but i thought u might know it.
> 
> just to clear up my statement before you start jumping into conclusion. i said people "LIKE" synthetic... no one ever said it is better. you are really comparing between apples and candy. they are both sweet. you just happens to dislike candy? people can like one or the other, or both...


Outdoor world: snowboarding, skiing, snowshoeing, xr skiing, hiking, climbing, mountaineering, backpacking, camping, rafting, canoeing, swimming, traveling etc etc.

My base layer merino is the same weight as any synthetic. That is why I wear a merino base and synthetic mid. 

People can like both (myself, for example) but apples are the better option for nutrition. 


@ Tarzanmann

No, I am not wrong. I wouldn't have claimed it if I was. You can post as many links as you want, but until you have spent more than 4 days outside you need to understand you are a jong and recognize that you probably don't know half of what you think you do. I have spent plenty of powder days with a wet base layer that insulates. There is absolutely no debate.


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## m60g

Under Armour:thumbsup:


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## yusoweird

AWNOW said:


> Outdoor world: snowboarding, skiing, snowshoeing, xr skiing, hiking, climbing, mountaineering, backpacking, camping, rafting, canoeing, swimming, traveling etc etc.
> 
> My base layer merino is the same weight as any synthetic. That is why I wear a merino base and synthetic mid.
> 
> People can like both (myself, for example) but apples are the better option for nutrition.


I think I would definitely choose synthetic for swimming  Anyways, I might try merino base layer for my next trip since you make it sound so nice.


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## Guest

just to add some wood to this fire. i have been rocking ua cold gear for a number of years and just bought a hh warm top. and dear lord. that over the ua is the greatest two pieces of clothing ever! Ua on the bottom because i could care less about washing it and the hh on top to make sure all warmth. sooo good!


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## Dano

Just bought a set of Hellys today. Tag says;
51% Superfine Merino Wool
49% Polypropylene

So obviously, hellys are both natural and synthetic & Merino is %2 better than Rayon.


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## ChubbyGuy

AWNOW said:


> Outdoor world: snowboarding, skiing, snowshoeing, xr skiing, hiking, climbing, mountaineering, backpacking, camping, rafting, canoeing, swimming, traveling etc etc.
> 
> My base layer merino is the same weight as any synthetic. That is why I wear a merino base and synthetic mid.
> 
> People can like both (myself, for example) but apples are the better option for nutrition.
> 
> 
> @ Tarzanmann
> 
> No, I am not wrong. I wouldn't have claimed it if I was. You can post as many links as you want, but until you have spent more than 4 days outside you need to understand you are a jong and recognize that you probably don't know half of what you think you do. I have spent plenty of powder days with a wet base layer that insulates. There is absolutely no debate.


If natural fibers always beats synthetic fibers, im curious to know what kind of outerwear you wear, the clothes that actually touch the snow? Im sure you wouldnt use any type of waterproof/breathable man-made blend like most jackets, since its obviously inferior. So what do you wear during epic snowing days, cotton/ wool?


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## Leo

Dano said:


> Just bought a set of Hellys today. Tag says;
> 51% Superfine Merino Wool
> 49% Polypropylene
> 
> So obviously, hellys are both natural and synthetic & Merino is %2 better than Rayon.


This is why I said if you want real Merino wool, look at SmartWool. They have 100% Merino products. And everyone loves SmartWool :thumbsup:


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## AWNOW

ChubbyGuy said:


> If natural fibers always beats synthetic fibers, im curious to know what kind of outerwear you wear, the clothes that actually touch the snow? Im sure you wouldnt use any type of waterproof/breathable man-made blend like most jackets, since its obviously inferior. So what do you wear during epic snowing days, cotton/ wool?


I am not sure if you are trying to be clever or not, but I will give you the benefit of the doubt. I wear smarty pants and a Marmot Tamarack shell.


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## swilber08

Nike Pro Combat is better than anything UA makes :thumbsup:


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## Tarzanman

swilber08 said:


> Nike Pro Combat is better than anything UA makes :thumbsup:


Doubtful. If Nike spent as much money on R&D as advertising, Tiger Woods, or Michael Jordan then maybe their products would be worth the top dollar they charge for them.

I've never had a pair of Nike sneakers that I didn't absolutely *destroy* (New Balance sneakers are FAR better), and they were late to the game copying UA's technology.

If their stuff was good, then you'd start seeing people wearing it on the mountain. So far, I have not.


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## Leo

swilber08 said:


> Nike Pro Combat is better than anything UA makes :thumbsup:


My fiancee and her family bought a bunch of that Nike shit. Guess what? They all wear Under Armour and Patagonia now. The Nike stuff sits in the closet most of the time now or they wear it around the house.


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## Glade Ripper

Airblaster Ninja suit merino wool ftw. I never have snow touch my back when I wipe out and absolutely love my ninja suits


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## Leo

cubllsu8338 said:


> Airblaster Ninja suit merino wool ftw. I never have snow touch my back when I wipe out and absolutely love my ninja suits


Those ninja suits are interests me highly. I'm think it would be a winning combination with the UA hood


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## neednsnow

Leo said:


> Girls wear plastic boobs!!! You wear boots too :thumbsup:


Real Boobs are better than Fake Boobs!!! Thats all I've got to say about that.


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## Leo

neednsnow said:


> Real Boobs are better than Fake Boobs!!! Thats all I've got to say about that.


I don't discriminate against boobs


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## Dano

Leo said:


> I don't discriminate against boobs


Unless she has 3 nipples. No one wants to see that.


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## Leo

Dano said:


> Unless she has 3 nipples. No one wants to see that.


Actually..........







............ yea I agree


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## swilber08

AWNOW said:


> Natural fibers always work better than man made. Spend a little time outdoors and you will come to understand this.


im sure your jacket and pants are made of natural fibers ...bet you wouldnt make it long without those man made fibers


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## DC5R

Wow, this got dug up from the archives


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## jxs1984

sorry to bring this thread
back from the dead
but that was an entertaining read

it's now January 2018 and I'm curious if anyone tried using under armour base 4.0 paired with a shell jacket? Would this setup be doable in 0f/-17.8c?


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## snowklinger

*greetings and happy solstice, necromancer!*



jxs1984 said:


> sorry to bring this thread
> back from the dead
> but that was an entertaining read
> 
> it's now January 2018 and I'm curious if anyone tried using under armour base 4.0 paired with a shell jacket? Would this setup be doable in 0f/-17.8c?


the only way to let people know that you also lift when you're snowboarding is the ua logo


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## SlvrDragon50

jxs1984 said:


> sorry to bring this thread
> back from the dead
> but that was an entertaining read
> 
> it's now January 2018 and I'm curious if anyone tried using under armour base 4.0 paired with a shell jacket? Would this setup be doable in 0f/-17.8c?


Temperature tolerance is a pretty subjective thing, but I'm going to say no unless you're nonstop riding. I was wearing Under Armour + synthetic down + armored jacket underneath a shell, and I was still getting chilly on the lift.


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