# Inbounds Slides at Snowbird and Vail, 1 Dead



## legallyillegal (Oct 6, 2008)

The majority of slides do not happen on whiteknuckle steeps.

(something to think about before you duck that rope into that bowl)


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## killclimbz (Aug 10, 2007)

Actually a majority of slides happen between 30 and 45 degrees. 38 degrees being the magic bullet. That all said, I am not sure that BSB is much over 30. Slides also can and do happen at lower angles and higher ones. The Snowbird slide from pics looks like it was pushing over a 38 degree slope. At a glance that is. 

As far as my point being is that steeper slopes are the ones that slide. Most people consider a 40-45 degree slope steep. Delirium Dive certainly is over 45 degrees and is very slide prone. Hence the reason you can't ride there without a buddy and avy gear. Avalanche terrain is also prime riding terrain.

I am just wondering if governments are going to start stepping in and telling resorts exactly how they have to operate their avalanche control policies. There were a lot of inbounds avy's last year and it's looking like this year is off to a banner start.


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## legallyillegal (Oct 6, 2008)

Short of extensive blasting and keeping areas closed for lengthy periods of time (always a hit with the crowds), I don't think there's really much that can be done.


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## killclimbz (Aug 10, 2007)

Well is very slide prone resorts like Silverton and Aspen Highlands Bowl, they boot pack the entire slope after the first early season snow fall to get the snow compacted. Also, you should blast. That is the point of it, to get stuff to slide. Either that are pay attention to warning signs. This much I guarantee, there were warning signs that these slopes could slide. There always is.


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## burritosandsnow (Nov 22, 2008)

speaking from first hand experience from snowbird this slide could have been called in or out of bounds... yes the chutes/bowl drop into the resort but its a 15 minute hike off the chair to actually access the peak. its snowbirds first in bounds slide in 30 years. shit happens and thats in no way to belittle the death of the skier. i just mean that this is nature we dont control it. yes we can try to make it as safe as possible but that in no way is a guaranty of %100 safety. the moment you step on that hill you accept the inherent risk of the sport. patrol was bombing all morning in both little and big cottonwood canyons (its pretty hard to miss the noise ) so im sure every precaution was taken on mt baldy

i think when you have slower starts theres a little blame on both sides. resorts need to get terrain open to get business and riders want it open to get their early season fix. i think the best thing is to be patient know that the snow will come and worry about the bigger stuff once a good base is built up. nine times out of ten you go into something like this early season and write it off after one run anyways due to the poor conditions. thats in fact what this particular victim had done, she was off her skis and walking out of a rocky patch when the slide broke above. just as theres blame on both sides i think the "fix " lies on both sides and that may include better judgment on when to open areas and also excessive penalties for crossing closed boundaries. im a firm believer in liberal policies on behavior but swift and harsh punishments for breaking rules. want to ride that 40 degree slope with 8 inches of snow bad enough to jump the rope? how about with a $1000 fine and 40 hours community service.. still want to? 

just my 2 cents 

thoughts to the gross family for their loss


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## Zee (Feb 21, 2008)

Seeing a probe line is one of the most depressing things, because it is a body search at that point. Condolences to the victim. I felt the "whump" on a slope at Sunshine last year, the night before there ahd been 50+ cm of new snow. The slope definitely moved, but it was not steep enough to slide. With the inpredicable weather, and some of the strange early season patterns we are seeing, inbound avalanches may become more prevalent. 

Wearing a beacon inbounds may seem like overkill, but if you already own one, perhaps it is not that bad an idea.


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## legallyillegal (Oct 6, 2008)

RECCO reflectors should be mandatory on everything.


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## killclimbz (Aug 10, 2007)

RECCO is great for finding a body.

I think it's a great tool for finding lost souls and such. As an avalanche recovery system. Not so hot. A lot of companies are putting RECCO reflectors in their gear. My boots and snow pants have them. Not that I am counting on it for much except to give my parents a body to bury. 

I think Snowbird is a RECCO resort. Not sure if they tried it or not with finding Heather. 

RECCO is just not that useful. A beacon is going to serve you better. Along with some friends who have one, plus shovels, probes, and the knowledge on how to use 'em.


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## mag⋅net⋅ism (Oct 26, 2008)

I agree with Kill -- RECCO's a body-finder. It sure as hell doesn't tell you you're about to be swept away in an avy, and if you've just watched your friend get whisked away RECCO's not going to help you find him and dig him out. 

I think that there is far too much reliance on technology to keep us safe and a total neglect of education. Is it such a ridiculous thing to suggest that frequent riders in any area where the resort does avy control educate themselves in how to identify the risk of terrain and conditions? I have lots of friends who have taken avalanche courses, but they're the ones heading out into the backcountry. I read what I can, but don't plan on riding resorts with a probe, shovel and beacon in my pack. BUT I would absolutely sign up for a avalanche safety training course directed towards in-bounds riders. Does such a thing exist? I took a brief look around on the net and came up short.


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## killclimbz (Aug 10, 2007)

Mags, just take a level 1 course. Everything that your learn in it pertains to reading snow conditions. This is relevant in bounds or out of bounds. Also, for a cheaper alternative, pick up an avy book and read it. Staying Alive in Avalanche Terrain by Bruce Tremper is just an awesome book. It covers everything in a level 1 course in a very user friendly and entertaining fashion. Bruce is one of the best in the snow science world. I read it every year. 

I use my avy eyes, at the resort or outside of it every time I go out.


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## Zee (Feb 21, 2008)

I fully gree with killclimbz, the level 1 course is worth it.
I would also suggest buying "Staying Alive in Avalanche Terrain" by Bruce Tremper.


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