# Burton Channel Thread!



## Guest (Jan 26, 2010)

The channel is awesome, just because you can use est bindings with it. More padding, better response (imo). And it is crazy fast to set up, just slide out to the distance you want, align the angles, tighten the two screws and done. The overall setup is also a lot lighter than traditional boards because est bindings don't have an underfoot baseplate, only padding. The channel is that same since it has come out, however they are changing it for next year by making it a little wider. Gives the hardware more room to grip to solve problems with sliding, although I haven't had my bindings slide once yet. The channel doesn't soften the flex at all, its just because the est bindings have no underfoot baseplate so they flex easier, but the boards flex the same. If anything I would assume the channel adds rigidity.


----------



## SchultzLS2 (Jan 10, 2010)

I love the channel system just for the infinite amount of angle and positions you can put your bindings in. Also like the guy above me said, for the comfort. With the channel the bindings are actually thinner AND more cushioned. Tweaks are a flash as it only takes a minute to adjust since you just have to loosen 2 screws, slide/twist/move, and re-tighten them. I am plenty open to traditional disc systems but I just don't have the $$ to buy another pair of bindings so I'll be sticking with Burton boards for at least another season or 2 unless my stuff breaks. Since I don't go 50+ days a season it tends to hold up.

PS...I have never had my bindings slide, twist, or move at all while riding.


----------



## phile00 (Jan 7, 2009)

Snowboarding101 said:


> The channel is awesome, just because you can use est bindings with it. More padding, better response (imo). And it is crazy fast to set up, just slide out to the distance you want, align the angles, tighten the two screws and done. The overall setup is also a lot lighter than traditional boards because est bindings don't have an underfoot baseplate, only padding. The channel is that same since it has come out, however they are changing it for next year by making it a little wider. Gives the hardware more room to grip to solve problems with sliding, although I haven't had my bindings slide once yet.


Interesting. Where'd you hear they were going to make it wider?



Snowboarding101 said:


> The channel doesn't soften the flex at all, its just because the est bindings have no underfoot baseplate so they flex easier, but the boards flex the same. If anything I would assume the channel adds rigidity.


Ah, I was misinformed. Cool to know. When I watched the videos, the stance setup was pretty neat. Plus you can mess around with narrow stances without having to spend too much time with screws. The different footbed options seem pretty cool as well.



SchultzLS2 said:


> PS...I have never had my bindings slide, twist, or move at all while riding.


I'm a lightweight rider, I don't think I'd ever have to worry about that  I wouldn't mind demoing a setup just for shits and giggles.


----------



## Guest (Jan 26, 2010)

phile00 said:


> Interesting. Where'd you hear they were going to make it wider?


Saw some of next years gear and talked to the local rep.


----------



## Deviant (Dec 22, 2009)

In honesty this is an unbiased comment, this is my first board with the channel (out of many), and first burton as well.

Years and years ago there were baseless bindings, no pad, just foot on the board. I hated it, felt terrible, the only cool thing about them was being able to feel a rail or box under your foot.

With the new ICS I was a little skeptical about the 2 screws instead of 4, in fact many people I talk to ask me about it. Obviously a company wouldn't be putting out a board and bindings combination that would tear apart. Not once has it come loose, hand tightened, I check them before every time I ride and never had to re-tighten either. In terms of board feel, I tried non EST bindings on it for a few runs and then put my Triad ESTs on there, there is a difference in board feel, it isn't just a gimmick. I can't really explain how it feels, just that I have more control. To me personally, I feel as if I can butter better with EST's than without on the same board, but as said above this is the bindings not the board. I ride a park board so I cannot comment on how a stiff board feels with it, but I'm very happy with it.


Another part of it is the markings on the board, super easy to get you're stance perfect, in terms of width and setback or centered.

Now with that comes the bindings, have used both the Cartels and the Triads (sold the Cartels, currently riding Triads). The pad underfoot is wonderful, soft but doesn't tear apart from standing on it or strapping in. Alot of people don't realize there are 3 "bubbles" on the footbed. 

The large one is for stance width and center or not, the markings on the board show where you're at, and you just look through the bubble and line it up. 
The 2nd is a spot for centering your bindings heel to toe (will post photo) 
The third is your angle, loosen 2 screws and eye up the angle and you're done. I've never used regular triads, but the EST's are VERY light.

I'm no burton whore, as said before this is my first burton set-up in 16 years of riding, but they seriously are an excellent set-up.

Photo of the bubbles, hard to shoot in my basement due to flash but you get the idea. Don't mind the rust, didn't wipe it down and it sat for a week.


----------



## vi3telit3 (Dec 27, 2009)

I agree with all that's been said above. The channel has great padding, and the two screw system has never shifted on me. I've only tightened it down once, and it's stayed. I'm not one to change my angles often, but I know that when I want to, the system is there to give me whatever I like. While some people will hate on the system because it's proprietary to Burton, I feel that if all boards had it, we'd all benefit.


----------



## Dano (Sep 16, 2009)

I'm riding the channel as well. Although my board is very stiff, as are my bindings, so I haven't noticed the increased "feel" that Burton claims is there (however I do understand what they're talking about if it was a softer flex board. Especially seeing as you are standing right on the board, with the exception of the cushioned foot beds. Which are so sweet by the way when landing in the flat!) 

I however have had my binding slide on me. About half Cm or half an inch over my toe edge. The screws seem tight too, yet it still shifted. I'm not too sketched out seeing as I put that board through absolute hell OB but it's still a little alarming. I had adjusted my angles the day before so I didn't check them the morning of, and I smoked a couple trees, but it's still something I think I need to keep an eye on.


----------



## phile00 (Jan 7, 2009)

Nice turnout so far, thanks for the interesting comments. Anything that makes setup quicker and easier is pretty sweet it my book. I'm definitely most curious about the board feel and the cushions. I hope there's a Burton demo day around the new england area. It would be pretty sweet to try one out. 

It really is too bad it's proprietary tech. It seems like it would be of benefit to everyone like vi3telit3 said. It's impressive how simple they made picking your angle, stance width, and heel toe centering. I'm surprised burton hasn't tried an alternative binding format like flow/ride/GNU/k2


----------



## Dano (Sep 16, 2009)

phile00 said:


> It really is too bad it's proprietary tech. It seems like it would be of benefit to everyone like vi3telit3 said. It's impressive how simple they made picking your angle, stance width, and heel toe centering. I'm surprised burton hasn't tried an alternative binding format like flow/ride/GNU/k2


I was in a local shop the other day and saw that the channel is now being offered on some of Forum's boards. This however is still somewhat proprietary seeing as Forum is one of the companies that falls under the Burton umbrella as of 2004


----------



## letsshredwawa (Dec 9, 2008)

i had a forum from maybe 2002? that had 2 channels per binding. i thought it was funny when burton came out with this "new" tech...


----------



## phile00 (Jan 7, 2009)

letsshredwawa said:


> i had a forum from maybe 2002? that had 2 channels per binding. i thought it was funny when burton came out with this "new" tech...


Burton bought out Forum and some other companies in 2005.


----------



## hanzosteel (Oct 7, 2009)

phile00 said:


> I'm surprised burton hasn't tried an alternative binding format like flow/ride/GNU/k2


i guess you missed burton SI. good thing, cause it was a bit of a stinker. great concept, poo poo execution.


----------



## hanzosteel (Oct 7, 2009)

letsshredwawa said:


> i had a forum from maybe 2002? that had 2 channels per binding. i thought it was funny when burton came out with this "new" tech...


i'm almost 100% sure option snowboards did the slider thing first. their system had 2 channels so it worked with all regular 4-hole and burton 3-hole bindings. my guess is that their patent ran out and forum adopted it years later. then burton acquired forum/foursquare and took it the idea a step further by going to 1 channel/est.


----------



## david_z (Dec 14, 2009)

I rode last year's X8 a few times, had the ICS with non-EST Cartel bindings. Easy as pie to set up and dial in. Did come a little loose during the first session, but that's due I think to physics and the fact that hand-tightening when the deck/screws are warm means that they're going to loosen up a little bit when you drop them down to 20 degrees F. Pulled out my Bakoda on the slopes and fixed it right up. No problems at all.

I liked the adjustability and how easy they were to move around, but to be honest with you, I'm not really one to fool with my stance. I think I've been riding the same width for about 5 years, and the same stance angles for 2+ so the benefit of being infinitely adjustable wasn't a huge deal for me. If you tweak your stance constantly, it helps.

I thought about getting some ESTs but I _really_ hate the idea of being locked down by proprietary technologies - If I was going to shell out another $200+ on new binders, I wanted to get some that I could swap on any board I own. Same with the deck - I want a board that I can rock any binders on, not just one brand.


----------



## phile00 (Jan 7, 2009)

david_z said:


> I rode last year's X8 a few times, had the ICS with non-EST Cartel bindings. Easy as pie to set up and dial in. Did come a little loose during the first session, but that's due I think to physics and the fact that hand-tightening when the deck/screws are warm means that they're going to loosen up a little bit when you drop them down to 20 degrees F. Pulled out my Bakoda on the slopes and fixed it right up. No problems at all.
> 
> I liked the adjustability and how easy they were to move around, but to be honest with you, I'm not really one to fool with my stance. I think I've been riding the same width for about 5 years, and the same stance angles for 2+ so the benefit of being infinitely adjustable wasn't a huge deal for me. If you tweak your stance constantly, it helps.
> 
> I thought about getting some ESTs but I _really_ hate the idea of being locked down by proprietary technologies - If I was going to shell out another $200+ on new binders, I wanted to get some that I could swap on any board I own. Same with the deck - I want a board that I can rock any binders on, not just one brand.


I was messing with my NS EVO-R and contrabands last night. Man, I'd be sold on ICS w/EST if it wasn't proprietary. And I haven't even demoed a setup yet. Just watching the setup is so nice. I wished certain snowboard technologies were open source  I say certain technologies, because I'm sure if everything one, no one would have a competitive advantage.


----------



## phile00 (Jan 7, 2009)

hanzosteel said:


> i guess you missed burton SI. good thing, cause it was a bit of a stinker. great concept, poo poo execution.


Oh yeah! Actually I wanted to buy a pair like 6 or 7 years ago, but I didn't want to lose responsiveness. It was just a step-in binding right? I didn't think they invented it or anything.


----------



## Leo (Nov 24, 2009)

I don't personally own an ICS board, but me and my fiancee bought one for her sister. I did all of the setup and let me tell you that it was a fucking breeze. I was able to change her stances many times over on the first day out without much effort at all. She loves the board and bindings.

With that said, I am pretty familiar with the tech behind it. I will be demoing quite a few ICS boards in a couple of weeks at a test fest so I will actually get to ride one now.

The reason why the board flexes better with the ICS + EST combo is because of the placement of the screws on the bindings. They are centered outside of the bindings, one on each side. Basically, instead of the anchors being directly underfoot, it is on the sides of your foot. This affects the board feel in a positive manner.

The bindings also provide better dampening because of the padding in place of the traditional plastic binding plates.

You can also ride directly on the board with EST bindings if you so choose by removing the base pads.


----------



## tekniq33 (Mar 18, 2009)

Rumour has it that for next year the big B is doing a mounting disk so that all bindings will be compatible on ICS boards.


----------



## Leo (Nov 24, 2009)

tekniq33 said:


> Rumour has it that for next year the big B is doing a mounting disk so that all bindings will be compatible on ICS boards.


I'll let you guys know if this rumor is true. I will be demoing 2011 Burton products (amongst many otheres ) soon.

Either way, riding an ICS board with non EST bindings is pointless. It's the way the ESTs are setup that make the difference on an ICS. Unless other companies are allowed to make EST bindings, I personally would not use other company's bindings. And I don't like Burton bindings so that is saying a lot about the EST tech. Sucks that it has to be this way, but I wouldn't ride an ICS without EST.

Which is why I have my targets set on a Ride Machete, K2 Turbo Dream, LT Skate Banana, or Ride DH2. :thumbsup:


----------



## tekniq33 (Mar 18, 2009)

I agree with you Leo. If i was buying an ICS board, it would be specifically to use est bindings and get the full benefit. from another board:

"I have a buddy that saw the 2011 Burton line the other day. He told me that for 2011 Burton is switching the hardware up for The Channel/EST to use the standard M6 Hardware that the rest of the Burton bindings use.

So basically companies like Ride, K2, Union, Rome, etc.. should be able to put their bindings on a Burton Board with The Channel next year. I haven't confirmed this yet with any Burton folks... but when I do I'll post it up. "


----------



## phile00 (Jan 7, 2009)

Leo said:


> I'll let you guys know if this rumor is true. I will be demoing 2011 Burton products (amongst many otheres ) soon.
> 
> Either way, riding an ICS board with non EST bindings is pointless.... And I don't like Burton bindings so that is saying a lot about the EST tech. Sucks that it has to be this way, but I wouldn't ride an ICS without EST.


I was going to say the same thing. I wish ICS and EST were released to other companies  I was never a fan of Burton bindings either. But really, regular strap bindings just seem to bother my feet.


----------



## Guest (Jan 27, 2010)

Dano said:


> I was in a local shop the other day and saw that the channel is now being offered on some of Forum's boards. This however is still somewhat proprietary seeing as Forum is one of the companies that falls under the Burton umbrella as of 2004


forum did that a while back.

Speaking of bindings on their site saw this http://www.burton.com/on/demandware...ite/default/News-Details?entryID=64425&page=1


----------



## Deviant (Dec 22, 2009)

Interesting^^

Also, looks like the T6 is going to be replaced by the T7(?)

South of the North: 2011 Burton Snowboards: 2011 Burton T7

According to this site, the idea of using other brands bindings on an ICS board will be fact in 2011, and a W rocker shape for some boards...

broblog » 2011 Collections from Burton, DC, Forum, Nitro, Artec and more!


----------



## SnowProRick (Jan 13, 2009)

tekniq33 said:


> I agree with you Leo. If i was buying an ICS board, it would be specifically to use est bindings and get the full benefit. from another board:
> 
> "I have a buddy that saw the 2011 Burton line the other day. He told me that for 2011 Burton is switching the hardware up for The Channel/EST to use the standard M6 Hardware that the rest of the Burton bindings use.
> 
> So basically companies like Ride, K2, Union, Rome, etc.. should be able to put their bindings on a Burton Board with The Channel next year. I haven't confirmed this yet with any Burton folks... but when I do I'll post it up. "


No, it just means you can use the same screws in a pinch. Other companies would still have to license either a disc or the EST binding design to fit on the boards. I thought Drake already did and I would assume more will next year. SIA peeps can let us know for sure.

--rick


----------



## Leo (Nov 24, 2009)

The EST design is available for licensing. The question is, will any of the other brands want to pay this fee to make bindings that *might* sell (enough to cover the fees and costs at least)?


----------



## binarypie (Nov 29, 2009)

I hope other companies jump on the EST/Channel thing. Its the best feeling setup I've had in 13+ years of riding.

No more "inbetween" stance situations.
No more 3deg increments. 
Easy to install.
Easy to adjust.

I'm pretty sold on it.


----------



## Deviant (Dec 22, 2009)

Just wanted to update this, I know we were talking about other companies being able to use their bindings on an ICS. I was browsing Flows website and they now have a channel disk to make their bindings work on an ICS board. EST is still the best bet if you're riding a channel board, but I just wanted to share the info.

Channel Disk


----------



## Leo (Nov 24, 2009)

I just tested a slew of 2011 Burton Boards. Their ICS is virtually unchanged. The only difference is that the screws for the channel system is thinner. You can still use the same driver head as that size is the same, but the stem of the screw is thinner now. I didn't have a 2010 ICS to compare it to, but the channel itself seemed thinner as well.

Burton is also starting to allow companies to make conversion plates for their ICS boards. I have tried their boards with the EST and with conversions. I'll tell you first hand that EST makes a difference. The board's flex seems better distributed through the EST bindings and dampening was noticeably better. I'd take the EST over conversion plates just for the dampening factor itself. Super comfortable to ride.

Off topic, but the Burton Infidel bindings were the tits. It's the ones with the wings on it. I don't like it because of the wings though. The bindings are just super comfortable. Funny because I was telling the Burton reps that I hate their bindings and as soon as I rode the Infidel's, I was like nevermind. I like this one :laugh:


----------



## Suburban Blend (Feb 23, 2008)

wow, I could not believe that I could not get 30-15 out of the EST bindings. They say they have unlimited stance options but that's not true. Max forward angles are like 27-12


----------



## Leo (Nov 24, 2009)

Suburban Blend said:


> wow, I could not believe that I could not get 30-15 out of the EST bindings. They say they have unlimited stance options but that's not true. Max forward angles are like 27-12


Wait, you rock a 30 in front? 

Alpine FTW? 

I'm not the biggest fan of the ICS system. I love the setup time, but dialing in the stance is not that great. I often find that you don't get the exact angle because as you tighten the screws it moves around. I mean one degree difference isn't going to kill me, but I have that type of personality where it will just eat away at my brain knowing my angle is not exactly where I want it. I do love the stance width options though. I like a 23inch stance and I find that hard to get with most boards. Usually a little under or over.

The absolute best thing about the ICS/EST combo is the dampening in the binding's footbed. It is super comfortable.


----------



## binarypie (Nov 29, 2009)

I'm glad flow has disks now because there are a lot of people who really enjoy flow bindings and had to write off burton's boards for no other reason than binding choice.


----------



## Leo (Nov 24, 2009)

binarypie said:


> I'm glad flow has disks now because there are a lot of people who really enjoy flow bindings and had to write off burton's boards for no other reason than binding choice.


But I've been riding an 07 Burton Shaun White on Flows. As for ICS, yea us Flow users were assed out in that department. Not anymore though!

Still, it's a waste of the ICS system to use anything other than EST bindings.


----------



## binarypie (Nov 29, 2009)

Leo said:


> But I've been riding an 07 Burton Shaun White on Flows. As for ICS, yea us Flow users were assed out in that department. Not anymore though!
> 
> Still, it's a waste of the ICS system to use anything other than EST bindings.



Its kind of funny. Back in early/mid 90s there was a small movement with baseless bindings. ICS/EST kind of reminds me of that same movement.

If you took an old school baseless binding and added a bunch of padding under your foot you'd probably have a very similar feel that EST has now. Lots of board feedback without all the pain due to harsh vibrations.


----------



## Leo (Nov 24, 2009)

Yea, they certainly borrowed from that early concept. Their ICS isn't original, but it is ground-breaking. They nearly perfected that old idea of infinite stances and baseless bindings. I still think it needs some tweaking for the angle situation, but all in all I would have no problems riding an ICS/EST setup. Especially if it is a Custom Flying-V or Easy Livin Flying-V.


----------



## binarypie (Nov 29, 2009)

Leo said:


> Yea, they certainly borrowed from that early concept. Their ICS isn't original, but it is ground-breaking. They nearly perfected that old idea of infinite stances and baseless bindings. I still think it needs some tweaking for the angle situation, but all in all I would have no problems riding an ICS/EST setup. Especially if it is a Custom Flying-V or Easy Livin Flying-V.


I absolutely love my Custom V-Rocker LTD w/ Cartel EST and Ions... its just a great setup.


----------



## Leo (Nov 24, 2009)

binarypie said:


> I absolutely love my Custom V-Rocker LTD w/ Cartel EST and Ions... its just a great setup.


Wait until you try the Flying-V version of the Custom. Blew me away. Out of like the 15 testers, only one didn't like it in our company. But he is one of those snowboarders that are "core" so he is usually against the popular stuff.


----------



## extra0 (Jan 16, 2010)

I don't think I'd buy first gen tech on anything. BTX is moving to C2 and the channel is also moving to a second gen...and it appears out of necessity, not just the "new and improved" for sales factor 

For me, the padding stands out as the most intriguing part of est (flat landings really suck), but I don't see what the big deal is about micro stance and binding angle options. 

As far as the ability to move bingings quickly, that's great, but I have a (small) quiver and usually set bindings once for the days conditions.


----------



## phile00 (Jan 7, 2009)

Leo said:


> Wait, you rock a 30 in front?
> 
> Alpine FTW?
> 
> ...


Hahah. Sucks doesn't it? I have the same personality. I spend a lot of time making my bindings setup perfect.


----------

