# Tighter carves by bending knees inward?



## SilverK20A3 (Mar 9, 2008)

Hi! I never tried doing this but this idea just popped into my head and I was wondering if it works in practice. When laying down a carve, is it possible to make the turning radius tighter by bending the knees inward to put a bigger "curve" in the board, so to speak? I dunno if physics already does this for me naturally, haven't really thought about it.


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## legallyillegal (Oct 6, 2008)

Short answer: Yes.


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## max_tm (Dec 7, 2008)

I'm going to have to say no. I used to believe in this being true but after a lot of practice trying it and reading some more experienced people's opinions (bomber online is now more or less my official source of carving information ) this will provide little benefit (it will just kink your board in the middle). Riding a nice balanced stance (which is tough when you're pushing your knees together) and angulating the board harder to deepen the sidecut's shape on the snow are the key IMHO.


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## Guest (Feb 6, 2009)

max_tm said:


> I'm going to have to say no.


I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you but I wonder... since you got your info from bomber online, it probably applies to riding with an aggressive forward stance. How about with a duck stance? When I got my new board, I was having trouble getting it to carve heelside until I tried slightly squeezing my knees together. I don't need to do it anymore, but it does seem to have an effect for me.


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## Technine Icon (Jan 15, 2009)

To a certain point it will help.


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## max_tm (Dec 7, 2008)

It's an interesting topic in that some people will swear by it in certain situations and others are completely against it. My issue with it is that if you really think about it, your sidecut is being pressed pretty aggressively into the snow, and you'd hope that your edge is holding quite strongly throughout your turn, so where is leeway to really squeeze the entire shape of your board into a smaller arc?


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## Rocan (Dec 3, 2008)

i find it wont make a "sharper" carve, but a more balanced one. 

The camber on boards keeps your tail from following your nose a bit, get rid of that camber, its one edge.

i tried this one day out on the hill and at the end of the day i noticed my edge burn was spread from nose to tail, rather then just being on the wide part of the board.


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## max_tm (Dec 7, 2008)

Hmmm, interesting. But then again, if you're decambering your board on purpose with your knees, you lose all that extra "pop" you get from having the natural force of the turn decamber for you until you unweight and the shape of the board does the work.


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## Rocan (Dec 3, 2008)

max_tm said:


> Hmmm, interesting. But then again, if you're decambering your board on purpose with your knees, you lose all that extra "pop" you get from having the natural force of the turn decamber for you until you unweight and the shape of the board does the work.


that "pop" is only helpful for ollies really,does nothing for you in a turn but makes the board feel stable.


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## max_tm (Dec 7, 2008)

That, I disagree with. I'm not talking about popping of your tail like an olley, I'm talking about the elastic-like effect of having the board re-camber at turn completion. When you push a lively board hard, sometimes this effect is strong enough to throw you off your turn if you're not careful, because it will literally jump you into your next edge.


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## Rocan (Dec 3, 2008)

max_tm said:


> That, I disagree with. I'm not talking about popping of your tail like an olley, I'm talking about the elastic-like effect of having the board re-camber at turn completion. When you push a lively board hard, sometimes this effect is strong enough to throw you off your turn if you're not careful, because it will literally jump you into your next edge.


ahh i see what your saying... if you have smooth transitions it should be a problem... alpine riders do it all the time =D


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## Suburban Blend (Feb 23, 2008)

It's all knees and hips...

Bend zee knees not together but down toward the inside of the arc.


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## Guest (Feb 9, 2009)

Hi,

I played with this once. I think it might be useful for making slower very tight radius turns even tighter. I don't think it would be useful at higher speeds... :dunno:

For me, it's hard enough trying to coordinate the front to back pressure shift along the edge with everything else going on.

Squeezing your knees together could get in the way of other important movements... :dunno:


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## max_tm (Dec 7, 2008)

Just a quick update:

Just checked the CASI manual and there is no reference to the pushing of the knees together or apart. The only thing I did notice is that in the higher-end carving pictures all the riders rode with more or less a neutral knee position; definitely not squeezing their knees together but probably not pushing them apart to any noticeable extent.

As far as personally experimenting with it; never got out to the slopes this week  it's been a tough winter, I feel like such an armchair snowboarder at this point .


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## Guest (Feb 20, 2009)

Think about trying this technique during the intiation phase of your turn, this is where this technique is most effective...especially on the steeps. Also it is a bit misleading to describe decambering of the board by using your knees. Instead, think of your ankles. Pressuring your ankles inward during the initiation phase of the turn will de camber the board making for a quicker and smoother edge set. This is how I was taught to use this technique by a DCL out here in the west. It does work. play around with facing up hill on your toe edge, then going to your heel edge using this method.


Pressure the insides of your ankles, and twist the board while doing so while keeping your upper body and center of mass between your bindings. Try and avoid any upper body rotation. It feels like you are falling. If you are pressring the insides of your ankles you will notice how the board decambers and your new edge engages much quicker than if you did not bend to ankles inward. Try it! I think you wiil find it an effective move.


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## AAA (Feb 2, 2008)

At slow speeds and on hero snow, it works to an extent. This actually was a popular way to turn tighter back in the day when everyone rode knock-knee'd. One problem, IMO, is that imparts an unnatural hinge in the board (if anything) which doesn't hold particularly well at speed or on hardpack. It's sort of like turning a truck locked in 4WD in a tight radius. It doesn't want to do that and it bucks and kicks in the process. In kinking the ankles and knees, you also loose a degree of control in the form of stability and shock absorption. You'll turn much tighter (and easier and more stabile) if you set the board high on edge so that it can decamber. Drive the knees down and sink the hips. Keep some speed and have a little faith that you won't just fall over. Wearing a G-suit probably isn't a bad idea, either.


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## SnowProRick (Jan 13, 2009)

I find it can work great in the right situations. Playing with your knee position is really something that you have to mess with and see what works for you and your setup. Try bringing your knees together in a turn. Try messing with WHEN you bring them together. Try pushing them apart during a turn. 

See what you like and don't like.

Also, it isn't the camber that gives the board pop or rebound out of turns. It is the board itself flexing. Rockered boards will also give rebound out of turns and they have no camber. The camber just distributes your weight across the length of the board. That is why most rockered boards are described as more "skate" feeling andhaving all the turning happen under the feet.

--rick
SnowProfessor.com


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