# Laces or pull tie



## CassMT (Mar 14, 2013)

the reason i prefer laces is that you _don't_ have to have even tightness, i want 100% control of that


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## linvillegorge (Jul 6, 2009)

I've had two pairs of Salomon boots and never had an issue keeping them tight. The issue I have had is the laces wearing out and the outer layer fraying which leaves them too narrow to lock in and replacing the laces on them is a complete PITA.


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## snowklinger (Aug 30, 2011)

i like trad laces.

learned to tie them over 30 years ago, still not hard.


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## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

laces give more control over where you want it tight and will stay tight...laces do wear out fairly quickly (carry an extra 1 in your pocket)...but laces are abit of a pita....I like double boa 32's. And higher-end boots generally last longer and will often have the inner liner harness...which is great for heel hold...then you can leave the boot shell looser. btw...not a fan of speed/quick lace system


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## snowklinger (Aug 30, 2011)

fwiw: i've yet to have a lace break before the boot is done (~100 days)

i have seen some fraying, nbd.


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## hikerman (Jan 28, 2013)

Thanks

Laces it is... What do the liners have laces also?


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## boarderaholic (Aug 13, 2007)

I prefer a quick lace system. Had no tightness issues with my previous Salomon boots until the outer shell broke down from so much use. I'm currently using the double boa system with my K2 Contour boots and am enjoying this system.


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## extra0 (Jan 16, 2010)

another one for quick lace. I've tried traditional and boa as well and I still like salomon's powerlace better. It stays locked. Only flaw is they need handle storing slots on both sides of the shell, not just one.

op's prob may indeed be the entry level system. Pre-2008, Salomon's entry level was notorious for having the worst zone-less "lock" (it never stayed locked), which was a complete waste considering they were otherwise high quality boots. They supposedly upgraded that crap system to something that looks like the advanced version...guess it isn't.

true, my 2009 dialogues broke down and packed out shocking quick (shame because they were also the best feeling/best fitting boots I've ever owned). I'm on 2011 F.2 now and they're holding up extremely well - still stiff and no liner to pack out


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## poutanen (Dec 22, 2011)

I've used traditional laces, and burton speed laces (they're dual zone). The fiancee has Nitro speed laces where the laces latch on the tongue instead of the sides.

NO ISSUES with Burton speed laces. I love them. They're quick, easy to figure out how much pressure I'm putting on, and they DON'T come loose. I tighten them once in the morning and that's it for the day.

Fiancees Nitros aren't as good, the tongue catches are on a weird angle, so you're pulling them into your knee and they don't always seat right. She ends up adjusting them a few times per day.

YMMV, but I like Burtons system.


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## madmax (Sep 10, 2013)

poutanen said:


> I've used traditional laces, and burton speed laces (they're dual zone).


I have Ambush's with dual zone. I really like the lacing system, boot doesn't quite fit right but that's not due lacing, I can actually make it better with the liner lacing and the dual zone. 

Quick easy system, get it tight where you want it and stays tight. Burton has holders on each side of the boot too which is nice.


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## Steez Pleez (Feb 28, 2014)

I would definitely go with tie laces. There is no comparison to the feel and control you get with them. You have to get waxed paracord ones though. They don't come loose as you are tightening your boot. They stay tight all day long and don't stretch out over a day on the slopes. And the paracord means they won't ever break. My laces have gotten old in the past but using these was a game changer for me. You can get those from WAXD laces


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## hikerman (Jan 28, 2013)

What a great idea "waxed para odd" !!!


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## hoboken (Mar 13, 2008)

Steez Pleez said:


> I would definitely go with tie laces. There is no comparison to the feel and control you get with them. You have to get waxed paracord ones though. They don't come loose as you are tightening your boot. They stay tight all day long and don't stretch out over a day on the slopes. And the paracord means they won't ever break. My laces have gotten old in the past but using these was a game changer for me. You can get those from WAXD laces


You have these laces already? Where did you get them? The site says the project won't be funded until March 28th and estimated delivery is May.


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## Steez Pleez (Feb 28, 2014)

My friend makes them


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## hoboken (Mar 13, 2008)

Steez Pleez said:


> My friend makes them


Nice! Got any pull for early delivery? lol


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## Steez Pleez (Feb 28, 2014)

Their email is [email protected] if you email I bet they could work somethin out if you're still wanting them for this season


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## CMCM (Dec 29, 2013)

I have Solomons with a pull tie right now and they loosen a lot. I guess this is the above mentioned older system.
Is there any way to make these things stay tight other than buying new boots?


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## KIRKRIDER (Mar 18, 2008)

Burton Driver X pull tie works like a charm.


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## extra0 (Jan 16, 2010)

CMCM said:


> I have Solomons with a pull tie right now and they loosen a lot. I guess this is the above mentioned older system.
> Is there any way to make these things stay tight other than buying new boots?


if it is, indeed, the older lock system on their lower end boots, then, yes, the only solution is a higher end boot. I didn't want to get rid of my old salomons (Brigade), either, because they were otherwise built really well (for beginner boots)...but that "lock" was absolutely non-functional.

However, don't expect any boot to stay perfectly tight all day (contrary to the hype). It has nothing to do with the lace locks, but all boots change throughout the day just from the forces of riding. I always re-lace halfway through the day and always end up being able to pull them significantly tighter than my first lacing in the morning.


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## Loftness (Feb 19, 2014)

I don't think anyone can make that choice for you (OP) b/c lacing systems are so subjective. My feet are finicky, and I usually have to make multiple adjustments throughout my day, tweaks here and there, to keep them happy. Because of this, traditional lacing doesn't work well for me. 

I like BOA systems best thus far, like the one in my K2 UFOs, because I can make the adjustments I'll need while keeping my gloves on. Push/pull knob, twist knob, and go. If you're someone who is able to set their boot before your first run and that's it for the day, then traditional laces can be great.

Another thing for me is I need a very secure heel hold, and I've found that the BOA system in the K2s sucks me in like no other boot has.


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## BoardWalk (Mar 22, 2011)

extra0 said:


> if it is, indeed, the older lock system on their lower end boots, then, yes, the only solution is a higher end boot. I didn't want to get rid of my old salomons (Brigade), either, because they were otherwise built really well (for beginner boots)...but that "lock" was absolutely non-functional.
> 
> However, don't expect any boot to stay perfectly tight all day (contrary to the hype). It has nothing to do with the lace locks, but all boots change throughout the day just from the forces of riding. I always re-lace halfway through the day and always end up being able to pull them significantly tighter than my first lacing in the morning.


Sometimes I need to make an adjustment also, the thing I like about speed laces is that they can be tightened or loosened while your foot is in the binding.


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## CMCM (Dec 29, 2013)

It's the "Echelon" model and the lock itself says "Sure Lock" on it.
It's this boot http://www.evo.com/snowboard-boots/salomon-echelon.aspx
I was thinking about just undoing the pull system and rethread it with regular laces. Or maybe rethread the pull lock with a thicker cable so it doesn't slip out so easy.
Or spend lots of money that I don't have.... hmmm.......


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## hikerman (Jan 28, 2013)

The boots I have are the Solomon Faction.
Going with thicker cords or lacing the boot is a great idea!
But looking at the boot you could not get the laces through the upper part of the boot. The laces goes through a tunnel instead of eyelets. Which is a bummer, these boots are comfortable. Currently I wrap tap around the upper part after I pull these tight.

There must be a way to put a different clamp.
I only have 1 1/2 seasons out of these.

Next boots I think I will give laces a shot.


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## extra0 (Jan 16, 2010)

CMCM said:


> It's the "Echelon" model and the lock itself says "Sure Lock" on it.
> It's this boot Salomon Echelon Snowboard Boots 2014 | evo
> I was thinking about just undoing the pull system and rethread it with regular laces. Or maybe rethread the pull lock with a thicker cable so it doesn't slip out so easy.
> Or spend lots of money that I don't have.... hmmm.......


unfortunately, yes, those echelons do look very low end. I'm ashamed to be associated with a company that makes garbage like that and would boycott them...if their upper end boots didn't fit my particular foot shape so well.

A lesson to be learned is: Never buy boots that don't have some sort of lace hook/lock at the ankle (called "dual zone")...all mid to upper level salomons have this and so does any other decent boot.

You can try re-threading with thicker laces, but with the time looking for thicker laces, shipping the laces or driving around to get them, the effort re-threading (you don't even know if that's going to work) and the money spent doing all this, it's not worth it....and that still doesn't give you an ankle lock.


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## Oldman (Mar 7, 2012)

If you have the Salomon boots the have the "lock" on the tongue, then unfortunately you have the same locking system as my daughter had on her boots. Yes, they are a very nice boot, comfortable, warm and no pressure points, but that all stands for squat if the boots won't stay done up. My daughter hated her Salomon boots for that very reason, she had to do them up after every run!!!!! That locking system is useless!!!!!!

I looked into trying to jury rig something to keep them done up, but gave up and simply bought her a new pair of Thirty Two TM's with good old fashion laces.

She loves them. Tie them up, they stay done up. RIDE !!!!!! What a concept.

I am sure buying yet another pair of boots is not the solution you want hear, but unless you can come up with some way of keeping those Salomon's done up, you are going to have to walk on them and get something new.


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## hikerman (Jan 28, 2013)

You are right. Rigging something is just half ass.

Just replaced my solomon rythem binding because they kept coming loose also.

Went with Ride Capo binding. Nice and stiff for carving.

I am still a newbie so boots were next any way.

Down the road the board.

Solomon pulse board now with ride capo bindings.

Are there any particular brand of boots that work with those bindings?


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## Oldman (Mar 7, 2012)

The best boots are the ones that fit your feet. 

Don't make boot / binding compatibility your # 1 priority. Try on dozens of pairs of boots and make sure they fit your feet properly. Lots of threads here on this topic. 

It is very likely the boots that fit your feet best will be just fine with your bindings.


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## CMCM (Dec 29, 2013)

Oldman said:


> If you have the Salomon boots the have the "lock" on the tongue, then unfortunately you have the same locking system as my daughter had on her boots. Yes, they are a very nice boot, comfortable, warm and no pressure points, but that all stands for squat if the boots won't stay done up. My daughter hated her Salomon boots for that very reason, she had to do them up after every run!!!!! That locking system is useless!!!!!!
> 
> I looked into trying to jury rig something to keep them done up, but gave up and simply bought her a new pair of Thirty Two TM's with good old fashion laces.
> 
> ...


Good point.
There were also some boots at the same price that had a dial lock on the tongue, but gave me strange foot pain in a matter of 30 seconds.

My problem is a bit more difficult because I am in Japan and it was hard to even find a boot in my size (11.5) without going into the super expensive range.

However, as I have little trouble doing watch repair, musical instrument making, and sometimes even cleaning my living room, I think I can dream something up.
I will post photos when I get something that works.


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## CMCM (Dec 29, 2013)

After lots of thinking and some experimentation it seems that there is a really good way to make these pull tie boots work and stay closed.

It's such a great invention... 

wait for it...

It's normal shoe LACES!!!! What a concept!!!

One thing I had not expected was the amount of shoe lace you need- 2.5~3 meters (yards) for each boot. You need some excess because you lose a bit of the ends in the process.

The HOW TO...
If you cut the pull cords (or unscrew the handle to be polite) that are on these boots and take them off, you can thread regular laces through the old loops.
You might wonder how to get them through the fairly narrow plastic channels at the top of the boot above the ankle...

1. Cut of the stiff plastic end of the laces (if you are using real laces, if you are using any other cord, then just cut it as it is).
2. Take a piece of dental floss and make a loop by holding the ends in one hand and pulling it tight. Twist it up a little so it gets stiff. Thread it through the plastic channels.
3. When the loop comes out the other side, wrap the loop around the end of the lace several times tightly.
4. Pull the dental floss back and pull the shoe lace with it. It WILL go through as long as the shoe lace is not doubled on itself.
5. Unwrap the floss and cut the end again because it's gotten pretty ugly by this point. Melt the end of it with a lighter and then tie it in a knot.

You now have regular laces and have only invested less than $20 for the laces rather than buy new boots.
I got my cord at a crafts/hardware store and it was about $15 for 5 yards (kind of expensive store, but still better than dropping another $150+ for new boots)- 6 yards would have been better, but it's still long enough.


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## sb60 (Oct 5, 2010)

I've had Salomon F series boots with the pull thing for years. The ones I have now I've worn (a lot) for 4 years and I can at least start another year with them. The inside pull still locks the liner. When I tighten the foot section I make sure the the laces are locked, then do the rest, pulling up the center and they stay tight all day. I do have old boots for spare parts and I've taken them to a shoe maker (in Denver) for repairs.


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## Manicmouse (Apr 7, 2014)

poutanen said:


> NO ISSUES with Burton speed laces. I love them. They're quick, easy to figure out how much pressure I'm putting on, and they DON'T come loose. I tighten them once in the morning and that's it for the day.YMMV, but I like Burtons system.





KIRKRIDER said:


> Burton Driver X pull tie works like a charm.


The Burton Speed Zone lacing system is great.

A friend has boots with the Boa lacing system and he found they came loose regularly.

As for regular laces, they're great until you get sick of the morning workout of getting into your boots  (hey I want the easy life)


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## ThredJack (Mar 18, 2014)

I just bought a pair of Burtons, with traditional laces.

I tried on a couple of pairs with the Speed Zone lacing systems. They all would have fit, if I could get the laces tight enough. I fumbled for a while with them and couldn't get them right.

I prefer traditional. Lace it up, tight where you want it, leave it looser where you want it loose.


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## td.1000 (Mar 26, 2014)

I had some Nitros for a few years and they were great. was very easy to lace up and it stayed tight. I just switched to double boa tho and will never switch back. they're just awesome for all the reasons that have already been mentioned


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## tradnwaves4snow (Nov 19, 2013)

traditional laces. can have different zones of tightness. easily replaced in events of failure. 

cant honestly think of any cons unless you're so lazy the extra 20 seconds to tie the bow gets you all teary eyed.


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## td.1000 (Mar 26, 2014)

tradnwaves4snow said:


> traditional laces. can have different zones of tightness. easily replaced in events of failure.
> 
> cant honestly think of any cons unless you're so lazy the extra 20 seconds to tie the bow gets you all teary eyed.


being able to keep my mitts on is a nice bonus when it's -30 outside.


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## Lamps (Sep 3, 2011)

tradnwaves4snow said:


> traditional laces. can have different zones of tightness. easily replaced in events of failure.
> 
> cant honestly think of any cons unless you're so lazy the extra 20 seconds to tie the bow gets you all teary eyed.


burton has a two zone speed lacing system so you can have a mellow tightness on the bottom and very tight on top for example, and it's very easy to do this (this can also be done with regular laces). Also speed laces are easy to adjust on the hill, and very quick to do so. 

Personally I strongly prefer the speed laces on my Ions. 

It's true that they aren't as easy to replace, but I've only had to replace one once over about 5 pairs of boots. If you keep your boots a long time maybe this matters but I seem to have settled on 50 days as about the max life for boots, after which they're noticeably softer and I replace them.


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## ThredJack (Mar 18, 2014)

tradnwaves4snow said:


> traditional laces. can have different zones of tightness. easily replaced in events of failure.
> 
> cant honestly think of any cons unless you're so lazy the extra 20 seconds to tie the bow gets you all teary eyed.


Seriously! Lazy fucks!


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## AntipodeanSam (Apr 19, 2013)

ThredJack said:


> Seriously! Lazy fucks!


I have dual speed laces, easier with gloves on, can have different tightness where I like, you can buy replacements. So if its easier and just as effective then I embrace the technology


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## CameronFong (Nov 29, 2013)

Iv tried all the lacing types and I still go Trad Lacing. It feels most comfortable IMO and tbh I think it looks sick


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## cannonsburger (Nov 4, 2013)

laces hands down more control and more reliable


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## Fergatron2000 (Jun 6, 2012)

Lamps said:


> burton has a two zone speed lacing system so you can have a mellow tightness on the bottom and very tight on top for example, and it's very easy to do this (this can also be done with regular laces). Also speed laces are easy to adjust on the hill, and very quick to do so.
> 
> Personally I strongly prefer the speed laces on my Ions.
> 
> It's true that they aren't as easy to replace, but I've only had to replace one once over about 5 pairs of boots. If you keep your boots a long time maybe this matters but I seem to have settled on 50 days as about the max life for boots, after which they're noticeably softer and I replace them.


Agree. The Ion dual speed laces are money. Keep your gloves on, keep your bindings on, tweak em on the chair as the day calls for it.


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## Mizu Kuma (Apr 13, 2014)

Laces = Easily Adjusted, Easily Repaired, Easily Replaced!!!!!


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## Mig Fullbag (Apr 15, 2014)

I've been using the Burton dual zone speed lacing system since it came out and will never go back to trad laces. The ability to independently adjust, on the fly, the tighness of the lower and upper zone for the varying conditions through out the day is fantastic for me. Never tried the BOA though, and I'm curious about it.


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## poutanen (Dec 22, 2011)

One thing I don't understand is people always saying that traditional laces are easier to adjust in zones?!? Unless you're actually knotting at more than one place, don't your laces just slide through the eyelets and roughly even out the tightness?

I just don't see any benefit to laces other than people able to replace them with parts from walmart in a pinch.


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## snowklinger (Aug 30, 2011)

Mizu Kuma said:


> Laces = Easily Adjusted, Easily Repaired, Easily Replaced!!!!!


qft.



poutanen said:


> One thing I don't understand is people always saying that traditional laces are easier to adjust in zones?!? Unless you're actually knotting at more than one place, don't your laces just slide through the eyelets and roughly even out the tightness?


Yes, and yes. I make a square knot at the top of the lower section (with the laces not very tight) because I have alot of volume in my forefoot that does not like getting squeezed. I then crank the top tightly, as well as the ankle wrap on the liner.



poutanen said:


> I just don't see any benefit to laces other than people able to replace them with parts from walmart in a pinch.


I can't speak to every speed lace variation, but lets just say that many of them, including BOA, when they break they are a hassle, significantly so compared to trad laces. I've ridden with plenty of guys *ahem Lgorge who are like "man I have to ride with my boot all sloppy cuz my speed lace system is fucked up". So they can get it rideable, but not actually fixed. I've had BOA go ape shit on me (couldn't fix on hill myself). Since going traditional laces, I was reminded that I've been tying my shoes for over 30 years and it isn't hard, oh and after HUNDREDS of days I have yet to have a traditional lace fail. That isn't to say they won't, but if they do, instant fix, as in FULL FUNCTION.

BA swears by teh fit for BOA, so that has nothing to do with my argument, I can't speak to individual fits, just my experience with the techs.

I don't have a soap box, but returning to regular laces just makes me laugh. 

Traditional laces and traditional 2 strap bindings are it for me personally.


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## madmax (Sep 10, 2013)

So I really liked my Burton's with speed laces. Quick adjustment on the hill, but they gave me some hot spots on the top of my foot, would cause my toes to go numb sometimes. I could get them pretty comfortable and like the quickness of lacing.

I tried on 6 different models about a month ago, BOA and trad, and the BOA's had the same issue as speed lace within 30 seconds of having them on.

I just switched to trad on some Nike's and it's a world of difference. No hotspots, no numbness. Take maybe 10 second longer to tie. On my first day I needed zero fixing on the hill and it was the most comfortable my feet have ever been snowboarding. As the laces stretch it may be a different story.

Nike's have a little stopper on the laces between the lower and upper zones, basically takes the place of a square not. So you can do dual zone tightness. I've been converted to trad laces for good.

I'd be interested in trying Nike BOA's just to see the difference, maybe in the fall when new stuff drops. Anyway that's my 2c.


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