# Considering a Bataleon Goliath - TBT has me nervous



## King_Pin_Rich (Mar 7, 2011)

Hi All,
So, I’ve been lurking around these forums a while just soaking up some of the awesome know how. You guys have already helped me loads, so thanks for that.

Now I have a question if I may,
I would consider myself an intermediate boarder, and am starting to play with more advanced things like Carving and Dynamic riding, I occasionally venture into the park trying to get the hang of straight airs off the smaller kickers. 

Up until now I’ve been riding a second hand 159 Burton Dominant,(circa 05/06). I typically fall into the mess about, do a bit of everything camp, and as such am after a shiny new All Mountain board. I like the look of the Bataleon Goliath but the TBT tech is an unknown to me (only ever ridden my board which is traditional camber as far as I know). It seems logical to me that TBT would render the board washy on the flats and would need cranking over at larger angles to achieve comparative edge hold – but it can’t be so bad as I see the board often gets praise on here, right? 

Any other suggestions for a one weapon board? Yes – Basic? K2 - Happy Hour? The Bataleon is the limit of my budget really. 

Stats: 5’10 , 150lbs (70kg) , US Size 11 Boot

Thanks again all, keep up the good work.

(P:S anyone know the center insert width of a Goliath 158?)


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## mjd (Mar 13, 2009)

I rode the Riot last year. My take is that TBT is a gimmick. The only positive thing about the board is that it is super squirrelly and feels like your riding a cardboard trampoline. I loooove that feeling.


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## BottleOfSause (Jul 16, 2012)

I have a 156 goliath.....but i havent ridden it yet :thumbsdown: so I'm useless. BUT.. it does look cool. I would be at around the same stage as you so i hope it works for me. Ive read quite a few good reviews on it and that its a really fun board but im sure you've read that too. interesting to hear peoples thoughts on this stick.


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## super-rad (Jan 25, 2012)

I picked up a Jam this summer, hopefully riding it for the first time next week. I'll post a review if I do.


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## NWBoarder (Jan 10, 2010)

I rode a Whatever last season and wrote a little review about it here on the forum. I'd link you to it, but I'm on my phone right now. Anyway my quick take on tbt is that it's excellent in powder, not meant for groomers, and good for jibs. The tbt makes the nose plane in the powder similar to the way a boat planes in water. You do have to lean it over more to lock in the edge on a groomer, and that felt weird to me, but I did get used to it. I just didn't like it. That being said, a powder board with tbt in the nose would be the bees knees.  

Sent from my SPH-D710 using VerticalSports.Com App


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## blunted_nose (Apr 26, 2012)

NWBoarder said:


> I rode a Whatever last season and wrote a little review about it here on the forum. I'd link you to it, but I'm on my phone right now. Anyway my quick take on tbt is that it's excellent in powder, not meant for groomers, and good for jibs. The tbt makes the nose plane in the powder similar to the way a boat planes in water. You do have to lean it over more to lock in the edge on a groomer, and that felt weird to me, but I did get used to it. I just didn't like it. That being said, a powder board with tbt in the nose would be the bees knees.
> 
> Sent from my SPH-D710 using VerticalSports.Com App


Camel toe. Bingo.


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## extra0 (Jan 16, 2010)

TBT does take a tiny bit more lean to carve, but that becomes second nature fairly quickly. 

the only aspect of snowboarding I think TBT is lacking is on some flatground tricks where you deliberately want to catch the edge in the snow...on the plus side, TBT becomes very smooth and relatively worry free 

I'm guessing most neg reviews are from flatground enthusiasts, or people who either really didn't ride TBT long enough, or maybe people with a neg attitude who subconsciously didn't want to like it. I'll be the first on this thread to highly recommend TBT


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## snowklinger (Aug 30, 2011)

I bought a last years Bataleon a couple years ago at full price trying to help out a local retailer. Ended up hating it. I like the idea but you should ride it(read demo). That spoon tail is fucken sketchy as you boost into the air but obviously some people can own that shit and make it work for them.


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## hktrdr (Apr 3, 2012)

There are some technologies/features that are pretty much undisputed as being beneficial - for instance, most improved edge hold technologies, sidewall construction, carbon inlays, triax/quadax fiber glass (esp. pre-stretch) or even basalt construction, blunted tips in most circumstances, etc.
Others have some benefits and some drawbacks and everybody needs to decide for themselves whether the former outweigh the latter. TBT is firmly in this second bucket and the pros and cons are pretty well known:
- Main benefits of TBT are a relatively forgiving ride and improved turn initiation and edge-to-edge speed, while maintaining the pop and most of the straight line stability of regular camber.
- On the downside, it requires more board inclination to get good edge engagement (the fact that Bataleon does not have any other multi contact point edge technology does not help) and there is a real learning curve with TBT for most people (especially for spins and jumps). Also it is still regular camber, so pow performance will not measure up to rocker or hybrid profiles. 

Really a personal decision and it is generally a good idea to do some thorough demoing if you have not ridden a TBT board before.


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## King_Pin_Rich (Mar 7, 2011)

Thanks for the input guys, most appreciated.

I'm due to head up the Alps this weekend, Cervinia Resort. Not sure if there are any shops that offer demos but i'll have a look. 

Failing that, I'm now quite undecided :blink: Seems to draw quite Polar opinons. Bataleon certainly seem convinced its the way forward. I wonder if they continue to refine it on next years boards.


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## scrotumphillips (Oct 27, 2012)

I like TBT especially if you are starting to carve. It makes carving so much easier. Edge-to-edge it is really fast and it takes very little effort.


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## extra0 (Jan 16, 2010)

King_Pin_Rich said:


> ... I wonder if they continue to refine it on next years boards.


I doubt it. They "refined" TBT last year, but the tech has been pretty much carved in stone already a decade...because it was killer from the start.

one of the things that draws me to TBT is the glide. My home resort frequently gets massive amounts of snow (1 ft+ per storm) combined with the fact it has more than it's fair share of flat spots. You really need the most glide/speed possible in this situation. TBT's edges don't drag like standard boards...add a sintered base and a fresh wax and I'm the slipperiest guy out there.


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## BottleOfSause (Jul 16, 2012)

I like the sound of this extra0. Sounds like a skateboard with good bearings


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## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

In my experience most people riding TBT and not liking it are either not adaptive enough or are trying to ride it like a traditional based camber board. It blends benefits of camber and rocker. I rode the original Whatever and it is still one of my all time favorite boards. Once on edge it drives like camber. Before that it drives between the feet as that's where you have edge contact. Realize that and change the way you rdie to compensate and its great. And as far as it being sketchy on jumps. Wasnt for me. I loved the feeling off jumps. The only thing it takes some real time getting use to is technical buttering. But if thats a concern dont get a Goliath or camber for the matter.

The Goliath is a fantastic deck. Grab one.


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## RickB (Oct 29, 2008)

rode my whatever for the first time today, loved it.


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## King_Pin_Rich (Mar 7, 2011)

Hi RickB, The Whatever has caught my eye as well, specs look very similar albeit on the softer end of the scale, and its cheaper to boot, I assume in part because of the extruded base. 

Bataleon recommended me a 157W , I wear size 11 boots, 150lbs, would you guys concur?


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## jza (Nov 8, 2012)

NWBoarder said:


> You do have to lean it over more to lock in the edge on a groomer, and that felt weird to me, but I did get used to it.


That is a personal opinion but a completely false one at that... TBT actually allows you to NOT have to have the board at as high of an angle to engage your full edge. The boards flex us also what helps you engage the full edge.

Fuck the haters. TBT is The Best Technology that has been used in boards since a metal edge. If you are scared to try it, try it. Go in with an open mind and dont chuck it after one run. It will feel weird at first, but you will adapt to it just like you would with any new board. 

If you are comfortable with your riding TBT should never cause any troubles for you. I've ridden mine in all kinds of conditions and the only time I've felt "squirrel-e" on it is when I am on a flat and going slow because with any board no matter if it V rocker, flying v, fat kick, flat dick, semi circle whatever tech some companies are coming out with these days they go with the fall line.

Don't let other peoples words dictate what board you buy, because no two riders are the same. Your best bet is to hit up a Bataleon demo day in your area and try out as many different boards and the different flavors of TBT to see which one best suits your riding style. 


Just my two cents.... let the flame war start.


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## jza (Nov 8, 2012)

King_Pin_Rich said:


> Hi RickB, The Whatever has caught my eye as well, specs look very similar albeit on the softer end of the scale, and its cheaper to boot, I assume in part because of the extruded base.
> 
> Bataleon recommended me a 157W , I wear size 11 boots, 150lbs, would you guys concur?


How tall are you? and what brand/model of boots are you riding?


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## King_Pin_Rich (Mar 7, 2011)

I'm 5'11. Size 11 Nitro Boots, Model Barrage. The effective length of the boot is 32cm (I say effective as the heel is slightly chamfered )

Certainly am curious about this TBT, might give it a shot!

Seems to be similar to the 26 vs 29er debate going on in cycling, certainly sparks strong opinion anyway.


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## RickB (Oct 29, 2008)

i went with the 58w (even though i dont need wide technically) i'm a lot bigger than you, but i wanted something short (for me) and playful. 

i'm sure you could handle the same 158, but maybe shorter would be a lil better? 

my take on bataleon/tbt. flat out love it. I had taken a pretty long break from riding and when i came back to it i was blown away by all the reverse camber shi going on. it was fascinating to read about. to make my return to snowboarding i bought a ride slackcountry (i had notions of cherry picking the best days for powder) and did not like it. Probably too much rocker for me.
i got an insider deal on it and it was still super new that i sold it with no problems. I demo'd some other rocker boards and didnt really get along with them either. Started reading up on bataleon and watched their videos and mentally i had already drank the coolaid. Bought a 161w TheJam from the classifieds here. Getting off the lift for the first time was awkward, and the first 1/2 of my first run i thought i had made a big mistake, but by the time i got to the bottom i was completely sold. A few more runs that first day and i felt that i'd never want another style of board. Had never had a board sooo quick edge to edge and super stable carving. (the whatever i have is not as much of a badass as the Jam, but its a winner for me just the same)
I love the feeling of being able to rail a turn and have that camber to push agains/rebound out of into the next turn. 

/tldr i have a full hard on for tbt

your results may vary but its worth a try:thumbsup:


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## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

King_Pin_Rich said:


> Seems to be similar to the 26 vs 29er debate going on in cycling, certainly sparks strong opinion anyway.


27.5 or go home.


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## phony_stark (Jul 2, 2011)

jza said:


> That is a personal opinion but a completely false one at that... TBT actually allows you to NOT have to have the board at as high of an angle to engage your full edge. The boards flex us also what helps you engage the full edge.
> 
> Fuck the haters. TBT is The Best Technology that has been used in boards since a metal edge. If you are scared to try it, try it. Go in with an open mind and dont chuck it after one run. It will feel weird at first, but you will adapt to it just like you would with any new board.
> 
> ...


Quoted for truth. 

I have a Bataleon Whatever, because of Nivek's impressions of it, and it delivers. The board is fun and as fuck and does everything he says it does.


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## linvillegorge (Jul 6, 2009)

I'd love to try a Bataleon to try out TBT. It's an interesting concept for sure. Never had a chance to hop on one though.


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## extra0 (Jan 16, 2010)

snowklinger said:


> ...That spoon tail is fucken sketchy as you boost into the air but obviously some people can own that shit and make it work for them.


"spoon tail" implies a continuous/round transition, which TBT doesn't have. TBT is three flat surfaces, so you're still launching off a flat surface with an edge.


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