# One-time wax, WTF? DPS Phantom



## Varza (Jan 6, 2013)

Backcountry now carries it, which is the only way I found out about it.

There's this: Kickstarter project for a "permanent wax treatment". I am intrigued, but "does it work??", and for $100 I *won't* be your Beta tester.

I don't have a workbench or a lot of space, so waxing my boards and the skier's massive skis does wonders for my back, as you can imagine. If this stuff actually works, I'd go for it.


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## chomps1211 (Mar 30, 2011)

Varza said:


> Backcountry now carries it, which is the only way I found out about it.
> 
> There's this: Kickstarter project for a "permanent wax treatment". I am intrigued, but "does it work??", and for $100 I *won't* be your Beta tester.
> 
> *I don't have a workbench or a lot of space, so waxing my boards and the skier's massive skis does wonders for my back, as you can imagine.* If this stuff actually works, I'd go for it.


Wait....!!!! :blink: You wax _your_ board *and* the SO's skis???? :blink:


*How in the name of everything holy do I find me a girl like that???*  :laugh:
>




Btw... just so I stay on topic! there was an earlier thread on this very subject. (The one time, permanent wax,... not gf's who wax boards & make sammiches.) :laugh:


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## Varza (Jan 6, 2013)

Dayummmn I needed to search. Sorry! 

Other thread


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## chomps1211 (Mar 30, 2011)

Varza said:


> Dayummmn I needed to search. Sorry!
> 
> Other thread


Nah,... it was up on the active topic page for a while then dropped off. Unless you were here those days you wouldn't have seen it. (....I have no social life so _naturally_ I was here to see it!) lol. 

And really,... *Who* would have thought to do a forum search after seeing a brand new product like that for the first time. :dunno: It's all good....!  

Those "sorry's" need to come from the first time posters who keep asking,... "Is {...insert generic BrandX snowboard name here} any good?"

Now THOSE ppl shoulda done a search first. :facepalm3: >


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## ctoma (Aug 9, 2011)

chomps1211 said:


> Those "sorry's" need to come from the first time posters who keep asking,... "Is {...insert generic BrandX snowboard name here} any good?"


Well? Is generic BrandX any good?


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## stryk3z (Jan 22, 2015)

just to clarify there was a thread on another forum about this product. Instead of waxing, you need to base grind every 30 days or so. Product requires UV sunlight to cure so i'm guessing its some kinda glass repair mix lol. Anyways that's a huge downside they forgot to mention in the marketing 'fine print'


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## chomps1211 (Mar 30, 2011)

stryk3z said:


> just to clarify there was a thread on another forum about this product. *Instead of waxing, you need to base grind every 30 days or so. *Product requires UV sunlight to cure so i'm guessing its some kinda glass repair mix lol. Anyways that's a huge downside they forgot to mention in the marketing 'fine print'


So what I hear you saying is,... you wont have to wax _"for the life of the board!"_. But that boards life is significantly shortened by having to regularly remove base material? :blink:


:WTF:
If that's accurate, That's a *MONUMENTAL* fucking downside imo!!!


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## f00bar (Mar 6, 2014)

chomps1211 said:


> So what I hear you saying is,... you wont have to wax _"for the life of the board!"_. But that boards life is significantly shortened by having to regularly remove base material? :blink:
> 
> 
> :WTF:
> That's a *MONUMENTAL* fucking downside imo!!!


No what they are saying is that it wears away so slowly that your board will naturally need a base grind before its gone.


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## Varza (Jan 6, 2013)

They were also estimating "the life of skis (or a board)" at 4 years. Nuh-uh! I take better care of my shit than that! When in doubt, ride the ol' rock board.


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## freshy (Nov 18, 2009)

Probably aimed at the rider who rides 30 days in 4 years...


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## SGboarder (Jun 24, 2012)

stryk3z said:


> just to clarify there was a thread on another forum about this product. Instead of waxing, you need to base grind every 30 days or so. Product requires UV sunlight to cure so i'm guessing its some kinda glass repair mix lol. Anyways that's a huge downside they forgot to mention in the marketing 'fine print'





chomps1211 said:


> So what I hear you saying is,... you wont have to wax _"for the life of the board!"_. But that boards life is significantly shortened by having to regularly remove base material? :blink:
> 
> 
> :WTF:
> If that's accurate, That's a *MONUMENTAL* fucking downside imo!!!


Except that this is not what it says on the other forum at all. The point there was that guess the treatment wears out at more or less the same rate as the base/the base structure itself, so grinds would still be at the same rate.


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## f00bar (Mar 6, 2014)

SGboarder said:


> Except that this is not what it says on the other forum at all. The point there was that guess the treatment wears out at more or less the same rate as the base/the base structure itself, so grinds would still be at the same rate.


Which of course makes sense if they are saying it somehow penetrates the base, making it 'harder' in general.

What I find of interest is they spend more time on how the base becomes harder and not a single mention of any sort of coefficient of friction or actual slide tests done.

Also, the manufacturer obtains the flex they want on the board based on the materials they use. You start to make the base harder and you have the potential to no longer have a board that acts as the manufacturer intended. That could be good or bad.

Not to mention possible warranty concerns.

I'll just wait. If it actually does as advertised then manufacturers would just include it from the factory. In bulk the chemicals would cost 1/10th the cost and I'd pay an extra $50 for a board you never waxed. I'm not seeing that the case though.


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## stryk3z (Jan 22, 2015)

SGboarder said:


> Except that this is not what it says on the other forum at all. The point there was that guess the treatment wears out at more or less the same rate as the base/the base structure itself, so grinds would still be at the same rate.


Actually it does. It was released with PDF or podcast with details about the product. Regardless it's a no brainer, too good to be true is.....yea you should get it by now. Considering DPS makes high end ski's and doesn't even put it on their bases its pretty damn obvious there's a downside they're not advertising. There's another thread on teton gravity you can check


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## Varza (Jan 6, 2013)

I checked out the thread at Teton Gravity and, um, they seem to say that this Phantom stuff NEEDS a base grind every 3 days or so to keep gliding. Erm. No.


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## stryk3z (Jan 22, 2015)

Varza said:


> I checked out the thread at Teton Gravity and, um, they seem to say that this Phantom stuff NEEDS a base grind every 3 days or so to keep gliding. Erm. No.


Its just a liquid that fills in the pores with their UV hardening Wax/glass or whatever mix. When it wears off after 20-30 days of riding you need a base grind to remove the worn off material on the top layer. I'm not saying its awful cus for the guys that only go a couple times a year its a great option. But if you go every weekend and halfway through the season you have to send ur board/ski's somewhere to do a base grind...its just no.

edit: also no matter how hard this material gets after it hardens, if you ride ice/off-piste/trees etc you will get dmg/scratches etc. Without the ability to wax over it'll just keep slowing you down until the next base grind. Ptex? Notex! cus you cant =]


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## SGboarder (Jun 24, 2012)

stryk3z said:


> Actually it does. It was released with PDF or podcast with details about the product. Regardless it's a no brainer, too good to be true is.....yea you should get it by now. Considering DPS makes high end ski's and doesn't even put it on their bases its pretty damn obvious there's a downside they're not advertising. There's another thread on teton gravity you can check


No, it does *not say* that . What the PDF (mostly correctly) states is that after 30 days pretty much any base structure is shot/needs a re-grind. That is completely different from the effect of the DPS Phantom which is not diminished.



Varza said:


> I checked out the thread at Teton Gravity and, um, they seem to say that this Phantom stuff NEEDS a base grind every 3 days or so to keep gliding. Erm. No.


Again, it does not say nothing of that sort *at all*. If anything it is the opposite.


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## SGboarder (Jun 24, 2012)

stryk3z said:


> Its just a liquid that fills in the pores with their UV hardening Wax/glass or whatever mix. When it wears off after 20-30 days of riding you need a base grind to remove the worn off material on the top layer. I'm not saying its awful cus for the guys that only go a couple times a year its a great option. But if you go every weekend and halfway through the season you have to send ur board/ski's somewhere to do a base grind...its just no.


Not true the first time you said it and still isn't. Again all together: DPS Phantom does not require a base grind to refresh the effect. 



stryk3z said:


> edit: also no matter how hard this material gets after it hardens, if you ride ice/off-piste/trees etc you will get dmg/scratches etc. Without the ability to wax over it'll just keep slowing you down until the next base grind. Ptex? Notex! cus you cant =]


It *expressly states that you can* wax over it and use PTEX.

I'm by no means supporting the product (am not against it either) but let's stop making/repeating those misstatements.


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## dfitz364 (Jan 10, 2014)

SGboarder said:


> No, it does *not say* that . What the PDF (mostly correctly) states is that after 30 days pretty much any base structure is shot/needs a re-grind. That is completely different from the effect of the DPS Phantom which is not diminished.
> 
> 
> Again, it does not say nothing of that sort *at all*. If anything it is the opposite.


What PDF are you referring to? I am curious to read on this product a little more (I am a chemist, and partially [read _definitely_] a nerd). :nerd:


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## killclimbz (Aug 10, 2007)

Not to go one way or the other on this product, but I will say the DPS guys are legit. They have been pretty good to FOBP over the years. I think there are a few guys in the organization that are giving this a try. I have been tempted, but given my recent move to the (no snow) San Juans, I haven't had the time. 

These guys are into backcountry skiing big time. Doubtful they would market a product that is only good for on piste riding. I do have questions on the longevity of this, but I am confident this is more Maybe. I'll give it a try if they do. 

Jury is obviously still out on this product. I like the idea, but how well does it really work?


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## f00bar (Mar 6, 2014)

killclimbz said:


> Not to go one way or the other on this product, but I will say the DPS guys are legit. They have been pretty good to FOBP over the years. I think there are a few guys in the organization that are giving this a try. I have been tempted, but given my recent move to the (no snow) San Juans, I haven't had the time.
> 
> These guys are into backcountry skiing big time. Doubtful they would market a product that is only good for on piste riding. I do have questions on the longevity of this, but I am confident this is more Maybe. I'll give it a try if they do.
> 
> Jury is obviously still out on this product. I like the idea, but how well does it really work?


This actually brings up a good point. If you actually read their literature their target audience isn't Ice Coasters looking to win a Chinese Downhill. It's backcountry, likely riding fresh snow and people who don't care if they are the first ones down.


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## stryk3z (Jan 22, 2015)

SGboarder said:


> Not true the first time you said it and still isn't. Again all together: DPS Phantom does not require a base grind to refresh the effect.
> 
> 
> It *expressly states that you can* wax over it and use PTEX.
> ...


-if the product is a 'permanent' finish that fills in the pores, what makes you think that wax/ptex will hold?
-if you do ptex the product, it adds untreated material to the base that will either need to be waxed or re-treated. If you need to retreat in any scenario the product loses its advantage.

TBH i would love for something to be as good as it sounds cus waxing sucks. But if they don't even have enough faith to use it in their own ski's then why should you?


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## Varza (Jan 6, 2013)

dfitz364 said:


> What PDF are you referring to? I am curious to read on this product a little more (I am a chemist, and partially [read _definitely_] a nerd). :nerd:


PM'ed ya.

And yeah, no. I can get 30 days in at Baker and with some careful riding on some days, not need a base grind. In fact, my Raven is coming up on 40 days and the base is still smooth as a baby's hiney. Why base grind?


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## killclimbz (Aug 10, 2007)

If you have to add enough p-tex that it affects you glide, you got way bigger problems than waxing. You would have to have a ton of filled gouges to make a difference. This is a stupid argument. As far as p-tex, wax holding. Valid question. It could go either way. It'll probably act more like an extruded base than a sintered one would be my guess. 

I don't think it has anything to do with faith in their product on their skis. They are not giving this stuff away. It would be around a $100 mark up on a pair of skis. Probably testing the waters first. Which also echoes some of the concerns that members are expressing here.


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## stryk3z (Jan 22, 2015)

also notice how the only review on backcountry is from their employee and how they emphasize base grind:

Note- I work with DPS. I have had the chance to ski Phantom on several occasions in Colorado. It worked great. Not only did it perform well on the snow, but it did so after a full stone grind tune.


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## SGboarder (Jun 24, 2012)

stryk3z said:


> -if the product is a 'permanent' finish that fills in the pores, what makes you think that wax/ptex will hold?
> -if you do ptex the product, it adds untreated material to the base that will either need to be waxed or re-treated. If you need to retreat in any scenario the product loses its advantage.





killclimbz said:


> If you have to add enough p-tex that it affects you glide, you got way bigger problems than waxing. You would have to have a ton of filled gouges to make a difference. This is a stupid argument.


Exactly that


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