# 2017 Burton SLX/Imperial/Ion flex



## jstar (Sep 21, 2016)

Are the SLX and the Imperial the same stiffness rating? I know the Ion is one step up in stiffness from the Imperial, but not sure about the SLX.


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## jstar (Sep 21, 2016)

Never mind, called burton and figured it out.

Anyone wearing the 2017 SLX's this year and care to give some feedback?


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## Jonny C (Mar 16, 2017)

I guess that because of this year new Burton Liner, all those boots feel very similar on your feet in terms of stiffness.
If you compare any of those boots with for example a DC Travis Rice, then you see an effective stiffness rating change.
The difference between the ION, Imperial and SLX is related with their durability and shock absorbance.

-The Ion is a good compromise in comfort, shock absorbance and flex retention. These are my boots for this year.
-The Imperial are not so good in the shock absorbance and flex retention department but are one of the few Burton boots in the lineup to have Vibram soles, witch means that they are adequate for hiking if needed.
-The SLX are the top of the top. They will last forever, super comfortable but with Vibram soles which means shitty shock absorbance. You can minimize this by replacing the foot-bed.


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## jstar (Sep 21, 2016)

Gotcha.

The Ions were what I was after, but couldn't find any around so I picked up some SLX's. Havn't used them yet or even heat molded, still deciding on some aftermarket insoles.

Burton confirmed what I had assumed, on a sliding scale they go Imperial - SLX - Ion, but like mentioned above the new life liners in the Ion and SLX kinda make them all similar.

Imperials are great boots, but after 100 days they are pretty much done. Still comfy, but breaking down in spots and flex has fallen significantly. Hence why the SLX's appeal to me.

Jonny C, how have your Ions held up this year?


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## Jonny C (Mar 16, 2017)

Where I live we got a pretty shitty year in terms of snow so the ions don't have a lot of usage. I noticed that I have a lot of space for my toes in these boots and I have a better support in the foot are with a pair of imperial boots. But I will also try to buy some insoles to make it a bit better.
My previous boots were a pair of Burton Ruler and I was really happy with them. I spent $100 on them.


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## SGboarder (Jun 24, 2012)

Jonny C said:


> -The Ion is a good compromise in comfort, shock absorbance and flex retention. These are my boots for this year.
> -The Imperial are not so good in the shock absorbance and flex retention department but are one of the few Burton boots in the lineup to have Vibram soles, witch means that they are adequate for hiking if needed.
> -The SLX are the top of the top. They will last forever, super comfortable but with Vibram soles which means shitty shock absorbance. You can minimize this by replacing the foot-bed.


This is completely wrong. 
- Ion is designed for maximum board feel and has (by far) the least amount of shock absorption. You feel every bump (and it is intended that way).
- SLX is the most cush boot with lots of padding/shock absorption.
- Imperial is between.

Vibram soles have little/no effect on shock absorption. Other things like mid-soles, foam layers etc are much more important


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## Jonny C (Mar 16, 2017)

SGboarder said:


> This is completely wrong.
> - Ion is designed for maximum board feel and has (by far) the least amount of shock absorption. You feel every bump (and it is intended that way).
> - SLX is the most cush boot with lots of padding/shock absorption.
> - Imperial is between.
> ...


It's not wrong it's just your opinion. The slx don't have the same shock absorbense as the almighty for example. And it's related also to the material used in the sole of the boot. The vibram material is a very hard rubber that doesn't help anyway absorbing any impact whatsoever. The shock absorvance in the imperials are more shitty than the ion because of that.


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## SGboarder (Jun 24, 2012)

Jonny C said:


> It's not wrong it's just your opinion. The slx don't have the same shock absorbense as the almighty for example. And it's related also to the material used in the sole of the boot. The vibram material is a very hard rubber that doesn't help anyway absorbing any impact whatsoever. The shock absorvance in the imperials are more shitty than the ion because of that.


It is not just my opinion, Burton expressly says so. But hey what do those bums know about their own products...

Again, the material in the sole only plays a very minor role in the overall shock absorption properties of the boot. So Vibram or not does not really matter for cushioning.


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## Snow Hound (Jul 21, 2012)

Vibram is a brand not a material and they're all about grip anyhow. Pretty sure cushioning doesn't come into it.


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## SGboarder (Jun 24, 2012)

Snow Hound said:


> Vibram is a brand not a material and they're all about grip anyhow. Pretty sure cushioning doesn't come into it.


To be fair, Vibram actually does both the sole design and the rubber/material compound. And they also dabble in midsoles and insoles, specifically looking at cushioning. 

But it is absolutely true that the choice of outsole does not determine the cushioning.


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## Jonny C (Mar 16, 2017)

The sole, the insole and the base of the boot contribute for the cushion. It seems that the cushion is something magical but it's pretty straight forward. Both boots have cushion technologies, the Imperial has gel and the Ion also has cushion. It makes no sense to say that the ion don't provide any cushion support being the second more expensive boot from burton...


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## SGboarder (Jun 24, 2012)

Jonny C said:


> The sole, the insole and the base of the boot contribute for the cushion. It seems that the cushion is something magical but it's pretty straight forward. Both boots have cushion technologies, the Imperial has gel and the Ion also has cushion. It makes no sense to say that the ion don't provide any cushion support being the second more expensive boot from burton...


Cushioning has nothing to do with price. The Ion is designed to have very little cushioning in order to enhance board feel, while the Imperial and even more so the SLX are designed to increase cushioning/smoothness. Burton expressly states that.


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## jstar (Sep 21, 2016)

SGboarder said:


> Cushioning has nothing to do with price. *The Ion is designed to have very little cushioning in order to enhance board feel*, while the Imperial and even more so the SLX are designed to increase cushioning/smoothness. Burton expressly states that.



This seems to be confirmed by the burton guys, at least from what I gathered from speaking with them. The Vibram itself might be stiffer, however the overall feeling of the boot takes in to account the other layers of cushioning.

As far as price relating to cushion, I'm not sure there is a strong relationship. The Burton AMB, for example, feels more cushioned than the Imperial and costs less. I've owned and compared both last season.


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## Jonny C (Mar 16, 2017)

SGboarder said:


> Cushioning has nothing to do with price. The Ion is designed to have very little cushioning in order to enhance board feel, while the Imperial and even more so the SLX are designed to increase cushioning/smoothness. Burton expressly states that.


Burton product description and several tests made to these boots don't reflect that the ions have no cushion. Also not saying it's the best boot out there in terms of cushion but it's not cushionless as suggested by these comments.

Burton Ion:
CUSHIONING AutoCANT Cushioning, ReBounce Cushioning, Sleeping Bag Reflective Foil, ESS Support Shank

Burton Imperial:
CUSHIONING Rubber Ice Spikes, B3 Gel, Sleeping Bag Reflective Foil, ESS Support Shank 

Burton Slx:
CUSHIONING EcoStep™ Plus Rubber [50% Recycled], ReBounce Cushioning, Sleeping Bag Reflective Foil, ESS Support Shank, Dual-Density Cushioning

And the main issue here is that I'm talking about the imperial and the ions because I own a pair of ion boots and I tested the imperial boots before I purchase the ions. I owned a lot of other Burton boots before these as well. None of the above boots have good cushion and that's a fact. Boots with good cushion have typically a softer flex. But from what I tested, I disagree that the imperial boots have more cushion than the Ion boots.


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## tehele (Mar 9, 2017)

SLX is more like medium flex and I read the new liner is super comfi


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## GDimac (Nov 19, 2015)

SGboarder said:


> This is completely wrong.
> - Ion is designed for maximum board feel and has (by far) the least amount of shock absorption. You feel every bump (and it is intended that way).
> - SLX is the most cush boot with lots of padding/shock absorption.
> - Imperial is between.
> ...



SG, where would the Photon & Almighty's compare in terms of shock absorption & response in comparison to those 3 models mentioned?


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## SGboarder (Jun 24, 2012)

GDimac said:


> SG, where would the Photon & Almighty's compare in terms of shock absorption & response in comparison to those 3 models mentioned?


Don't have personal experience with the Photon. But the descriptions/ratings in the Burton catalogue are pretty spot on for the boots that I have tried (SLX, Ion, Imperial etc):
Burton - zuzupopo / Catalogues - zuzupopo


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## SGboarder (Jun 24, 2012)

Jonny C said:


> *Burton product description* and several tests made to these boots *don't reflect that the ions have no cushion*.


Actually it does. Look at the board feel chart in the Burton catalogue (zuzupopo) the Ion ranks has the least cushioning of all Burton boots.



Jonny C said:


> Boots with good cushion have typically a softer flex.


Nonsense, stiffness and cushioning are two completely separate things. Compare the Ion and the Tourist. Very similar stiffness (because the upper part of the boot is almost the same) but the Tourist has a lot more cushioning. 
Incidentally the Tourist also contradicts your point about boots with Vibram soles having less cushioning: For the purposes of this discussion the Tourist is an Ion with a Vibram sole (plus some other bits) and has much more cushioning.


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## GDimac (Nov 19, 2015)

SGboarder said:


> Don't have personal experience with the Photon. But the descriptions/ratings in the Burton catalogue are pretty spot on for the boots that I have tried (SLX, Ion, Imperial etc):
> Burton - zuzupopo / Catalogues - zuzupopo


Thanks, a bit clearer now. Have a habit of skimming the boots section in the catalogs lol. 

The Ion BOA for next yr would be interesting but sucks cos all Burton hardgoods going up by $100 for us here next szn, according to my dudes at my local shop. 

May try the Red Wing Ion and/or the Photon sometime during the off szn tho.


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## Jonny C (Mar 16, 2017)

SGboarder said:


> Actually it does. Look at the board feel chart in the Burton catalogue (zuzupopo the Ion ranks has the least cushioning of all Burton boots.


Now we are entering the realm of opinions vs facts.
The boots that have similar cushion to the Ions are:
-Photon
-Imperial
-Rampant
-SLX




SGboarder said:


> Nonsense, stiffness and cushioning are two completely separate things. Compare the Ion and the Tourist. Very similar stiffness (because the upper part of the boot is almost the same) but the Tourist has a lot more cushioning.
> Incidentally the Tourist also contradicts your point about boots with Vibram soles having less cushioning: For the purposes of this discussion the Tourist is an Ion with a Vibram sole (plus some other bits) and has much more cushioning.


Again mixing facts with opinions: The stiffness of the Tourist is the same as the Burton Ruler and the Ruler are not stiff boots, they are medium. If you gave me the example of the Driver X, I could agree that this exception is valid, it's a very stiff boot with a very good cushion. 

The boots that have good cushion are: 
-Almighty
-AMB (or the old Ambush)
-Concord
-Fiend
-Highline
-Moto
-Ruler
-Invader

All these boots have a soft or medium stiffness with very good cushion and this is why I say that typically boots that with softer flex have good cushion.


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## SGboarder (Jun 24, 2012)

Jonny C said:


> Now we are entering the realm of opinions vs facts.
> The boots that have similar cushion to the Ions are:
> -Photon
> -Imperial
> ...


No, no opinion involved. The Burton catalogue is very very clear: All the boots that you listed have more cushioning than the Ion, except for the Rampant.



Jonny C said:


> Again mixing facts with opinions: The stiffness of the Tourist is the same as the Burton Ruler and the Ruler are not stiff boots, they are medium. If you gave me the example of the Driver X, I could agree that this exception is valid, it's a very stiff boot with a very good cushion.


I did not mention the Ruler but your statement is wrong anyway: The Tourist is both stiffer and more cushioned than the Ruler.
The Driver X is an even more extreme example - and another example that contradicts your earlier claim that boots with Vibram soles have poor cushioning.



Jonny C said:


> The boots that have good cushion are:
> -Almighty
> -AMB (or the old Ambush)
> -Concord
> ...


Wrong. Did you look at the catalogue at all? The Ion, Almighty, Concord, and AMB all have the least amount of cushioning among Burton boots. Only some of these are soft to medium flex (Rampant, AMB), others are stiff/stiffer (Ion, AMB).


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## jstar (Sep 21, 2016)

So just a bit of a follow up on the SLX. Got them heat molded and have four days on them now. Stock insoles

Coming from size 9.5 imperials with 100 days on them, I got these in a size 9 and they have the same or more room in them than the imperials, especially in the toe width area. The only pressure areas I'm getting are on the top of each foot, hoping that they disappear in time as they have already gotten better.

As far as performance, the Burton catalogue seems bang on, good response and tons of cushion, in fact these are the cushiest I've ever ridden. I got these because I needed better response to maximize the performance on my capita mercury, the old imperials just didn't cut it.

Overall the boots are amazing quality and if they get more comfy I'm sure they'll last 100+ days. However, if the pressure points don't subside, or if the boots packs out more, I'll probably end up getting another pair of imperials and just replace them more often.


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## Jonny C (Mar 16, 2017)

SGboarder said:


> No, no opinion involved. The Burton catalogue is very very clear
> 
> Wrong. Did you look at the catalogue at all? The Ion, Almighty, Concord, and AMB all have the least amount of cushioning among Burton boots. Only some of these are soft to medium flex (Rampant, AMB), others are stiff/stiffer (Ion, AMB).


From the product description as well as the benchmarks done to all these boots, none of them corroborates your version. So it's one of those Trump VS real world scenarios that I will not take part of anymore.


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## SGboarder (Jun 24, 2012)

Jonny C said:


> From the product description as well as the benchmarks done to all these boots, none of them corroborates your version. So it's one of those Trump VS real world scenarios that I will not take part of anymore.


It is nice that you're harboring Trumpian presidential ambitions. But in the interest of getting people real facts and information here is the link to the Burton catalogue again.

And just for kicks, an example that directly disproves one of your 'alternative facts': Product descriptions/details for both the SLX and Ion (even on the same page in the catalogue, see that was not so hard to find) showing considerable cushioning for the former and very little for the latter. Obama out.


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## Argo (Feb 25, 2010)

People these days have a hard time with facts vs feelings. 

You would think a frenchy would use a LePen reference instead....


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## jstar (Sep 21, 2016)

SGboarder said:


> It is not just my opinion, Burton expressly says so. But hey what do those bums know about their own products...


Exactly, Burton has only been around for a couples years now anyways right?

Kidding, but ya thanks for posting the catalogue, this pretty much answers any questions. Much more informative than the website info.


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## Elektropow (Mar 6, 2014)

SGboarder said:


> It is nice that you're harboring Trumpian presidential ambitions. But in the interest of getting people real facts and information here is the link to the Burton catalogue again.


While I really don't want to take sides, personally I would absolutely disregard the Burton catalogue as a premise for facts. You're somehow trying to convey that "burton knows their shit, been long in the game" has anything to do with what they spew to their customers in a catalogue form. Utter bullshit. This is a manipulation game between brands and you must know that.

A good example is the ever long est vs. reflex debate between burton's bindings. They seem to change camp on their own product each year. Go compare stiffness and feel ratings of bindings between 16/17 and 17/18 catalogues. Gotta be fucking naive to buy into that shit.

From personal experience between the ions, driver x and imperials, shock absorption is pretty damn close and the difference is even more minuscule if you swap those crappy stock insoles to d3o ones or something similarly absorbing.

Rant out.


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## BigmountainVMD (Oct 9, 2011)

So I am going through a similar decision making process right now. I want a mid-stiff boot, with good cushioning and a Vibram sole would be great. My 1 complaint with My current 2012 ions is that they are notoriously slippery while hiking or in an icy parking lot. I'm trying to decide between picking up another set of Ions (3rd set in the last 10 years) vs. the Tourist or Imperial due to the Vibram soles they have. I haven't opted to compare the SLX because I've read they are more flexible than the former 3 I've mentioned. I've also tried the Driver Xs before and found them too stiff. 

I spoke to a rep briefly who noted that people have been riding the Tourist as an aggressive all mountain freestyle boot, similar to the ion, but there is more flex in the upper of the tourist to facilitate heightened mobility. I tried both on and found this to be true. There is a little elastic strip diagonally across the ankle of the Tourist that increased mobility I would suppose. I did not note this "increased negative flex" noted on the website.

I'm considering knocking the Imperial off the list, due to the lack of the Rebounce dampening pad and I've been reading that they break down faster than the Ions. To be honest, my current Ions are not complete mush yet (250 ish days), but as I just moved to Bend and will ride non-stop this season, I don't want to deal with a mid-season bootsplosion.

So any input on Ions vs. Tourist for central Oregon resort pow with some hiking? I know nothing of the new Life liners and Im not sure how quickly they will impact my happiness with the flex. If these liners and the design of the boot make the Ion more flexible than past years (2012 or so) than I may opt for the Ion still, as this will be my sweet spot. If the liner and boot flexes similarly to past years, the Tourist may be the boot for me. I'm also wondering if the Tourist has more cushioning, at the Ion has max board feel and the Tourist has minimum board feel. Does that equate with the amount of cushioning underfoot?


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