# Is snowboarding really about to go through a Euro carving phase?



## ridinbend (Aug 2, 2012)

Colorado, the next Swiss Alps.


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## basser (Sep 18, 2015)

Is this just out of the blue? Are you noticing more people doing it or what?


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## SteezyRidah303 (Oct 5, 2010)

linvillegorge said:


> Please tell me it isn't.
> 
> If it is


Bro...its already happening were like 3 years in now....might be transitioning to a knuckle/roller phase now lol...... idk about you but....Eurocarve + speeeeed + roller= :crazy1:

Check this one out... http://unofficialnetworks.com/2015/03/28/the-carve-flip-snowboard-trick-of-the-year-candidate/


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## 16gkid (Dec 5, 2012)

Out of all the types of riders you can complain about, you're really gonna bitch about the group trying to learn how to ride correctly on groomers away from the powder and not blocking the landing at the terrain park? Jesus that's ridiculous, I'd rather watch someone carve low than watch another park rat swishy swash up to a box and tap it with their board


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## f00bar (Mar 6, 2014)

I don't mind a few, but a lot of them I think would start to annoy me. Just like the skiers who think the slopes are their own personal GS course.

I have no real reason for this. For some reason it all just looks mechanical to me, like the path they choose is already predetermined by something other than them. Probably because most images of them are on predefined courses.


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## kriegs13 (Nov 28, 2016)

SteezyRidah303 said:


> Check this one out... ?The Carve Flip? ? Snowboard Trick of the Year Candidate | Unofficial Networks


the "article" portion of that is some of the best journalism that I have read in a long while (not a sarcastic statement). That does take cruising groomers to a new level.


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## linvillegorge (Jul 6, 2009)

16gkid said:


> Out of all the types of riders you can complain about, you're really gonna bitch about the group trying to learn how to ride correctly on groomers away from the powder and not blocking the landing at the terrain park? Jesus that's ridiculous, I'd rather watch someone carve low than watch another park rat swishy swash up to a box and tap it with their board


And take up entire runs and cop an attitude if anyone gets in their line and critique each others techniques like a bunch of teleskiers at the bar. 

Fuck, it sucks when conditions suck.


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## linvillegorge (Jul 6, 2009)

basser said:


> Is this just out of the blue? Are you noticing more people doing it or what?


Probably just being forced to spend more time in their environment with these shitty conditions. Generally speaking, I treat groomers as occasional necessary evils when navigating the mountain.


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## chomps1211 (Mar 30, 2011)

linvillegorge said:


> Probably just being forced to spend more time in their environment with these shitty conditions. Generally speaking, *I treat groomers as occasional necessary evils when navigating the mountain.*


_Gawd_,... it must be nice to be so spoiled!! :laugh:  >


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## deagol (Mar 26, 2014)

I have always considered "eurocarving" to be that style of carving where they lay down in the snow when turning at extreme angles, where it seem like their whole goal is to get both hands (and even chest) down on the snow (like laying down on it). I am not sure if that matches the general consensus.. But I have no interest in getting that far down in the snow. But regular carving, while getting low with good extension, is second behind powder for me. I'm too old for the terrain park.

Like this


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## snowklinger (Aug 30, 2011)

I was expecting much better border security in 2017.


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## mojo maestro (Jan 6, 2009)

chomps1211 said:


> _Gawd_,... it must be nice to be so spoiled!! :laugh:  >


You have no idea.............


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## elstinky (Jan 24, 2010)

> a sheer skill phase?


not too bad, that.


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## Synathidy (Apr 4, 2017)

I live in backwoods no-where-ville and hang out almost exclusively at a resort that has a lot of uneven, hilly terrain surrounded by thick woods. While the ownership keeps trails groomed as best they can, if one tried to "eurocarve" in such an orderly manner there, one would quickly meet a butt-bruising fate in no time at all. 

It's the place I learned to snowboard, and its runs aren't the type of even, smooth, perfectly manicured slopes you see in the videos. However, I like to think it has natural character and charm that evades the tamed trappings of more glitzy places.

Also, most American trends tend to arrive in Alaska about a decade late, so if this "eurocarving" is seeing a resurgence, it won't have reached here yet. Pop culture's "grunge" didn't hit here till around 2000. It's a fascinating distance-dependent delay phenomenon.


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## BoardWalk (Mar 22, 2011)

linvillegorge said:


> Probably just being forced to spend more time in their environment with these shitty conditions. Generally speaking, I treat groomers as occasional necessary evils when navigating the mountain.


 :iagree: Give me trees or give me death.....or maybe both someday....


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## Clayton Bigsby (Oct 23, 2012)

most riders should at least learn the euro carve, maybe not to that extreme but learn how to use your edges properly. I see guys straight lining groomers all the time, but when it comes to linking up some turns at that speed, their turns are very washed out and look to be out of control.

I can see it causing some problems on the crowded weekends, having some guy going from one side of the groomer across to the other side, but during the week when we ride and the groomers are fresh, nothing like laying down some GS knifes edge turns, only to check out your trax (powder or groomers) heading back up on the chair.


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

Who cares what others do with their time/snowboard.

If they wanna euro carve, ride park, sit on top of the hill and take selfies... go for it.


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

Everyone needs his portion of problems. If one doesn't have real ones, one creates some...


Take a deep sip and relax. Winter will come your way sooner or later as well, fingers crossed.


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## chomps1211 (Mar 30, 2011)

neni said:


> Everyone needs his portion of problems. If one doesn't have real ones, one creates some...
> 
> 
> Take a deep sip and relax. Winter will come your way sooner or later as well, fingers crossed.


:rofl3:

I luv it!!!! @neni says,... _"Take a chill Pill!!"_  :laugh: :snowboard1:

@linvillegorge,... I sure hope CO. gets the goods soon!

Btw,.. you'd have _flipped your wig_ at the Alpine board riding Hardbooter that wuz out layin' down Eruo carves on our 1/3 mile long, 300" vert WROD last Sunday!!! :rofl3:  >

(...it wuz kinda cool watchin the dude from the lift tho!) :grin:


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## GDimac (Nov 19, 2015)

Clayton Bigsby said:


> most riders should at least learn the euro carve, maybe not to that extreme but learn how to use your edges properly.


Agreed, def helps build good edging habits/control. 

I personally love doing them all the time. Almost every run/lap, actually haha. Only drawback for me is how costly it can get ... I go thru almost 2 pairs of mitts every szn cos of the ripping created from the drag. Even my full leather mitts succumb to this rippage eventually :S.

But despite that, it's still worth it for me cos there's not much that can beat a stylish turn/euro carve imo.


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## robotfood99 (Mar 19, 2016)

I see so many wannabe Knaptons that think a full-on euro carve setup is just the cure for their all-mountain decks washing out. Sure, you don’t know edge control so the answer must be super narrow titanal boarder-cross rigs with 45/30 stance. Fools and their money. I love pointing out to these folks that RK rides a wide twin.


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## deagol (Mar 26, 2014)

I don't see a lot of people riding these alpine setups at the areas I frequent, but the ones who do usually ride very well. One thing I have noticed just by watching videos and seeing the ski/snowboard racing teams practicing early season: some of the snowboard stances are rotated so far forward that it seems like they are just on a monoski with offset feet (slight exaggeration). With the front foot rotated way beyond what ever seems like a sideways stance. I would never want to go beyond 45 degrees, or maybe not even to close to it. There is something to me about staying, at least somewhat, sideways. Having said that, I do ride at about 30 degree front foot, but it's fundamentally still sideways to me.


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## Aracan (Nov 24, 2017)

> Probably because most images of them are on predefined courses.


I think you are confusing carvers and racers there. Racing is about taking the quickest possible route from point A to point B. Carving is about making the biggest possible detour. The techniques taught at carve clinics and at race clinics are quite different these days.


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## Clayton Bigsby (Oct 23, 2012)

If you've never tried hardshells, plate bindings on a race board, give it a try, you think you're a decent board until you give those a try, you use a lot of arm movment.

I'll have to try and post this photo I have at home, its approx. 20-25 years old of a guy in full race gear (board, boots, bindings and spandex) getting 6 to 8' above the lip in a halfpipe, now that takes skill (and balls)


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## Mig Fullbag (Apr 15, 2014)

robotfood99 said:


> I see so many wannabe Knaptons that think a full-on euro carve setup is just the cure for their all-mountain decks washing out. Sure, you don’t know edge control so the answer must be super narrow titanal boarder-cross rigs with 45/30 stance. Fools and their money. I love pointing out to these folks that RK rides a wide twin.


He rides a wide twin and duck stance solely becauses his riding style involves a LOT of switch tricks and switch carving. He knows very well the limitations of it and works very hard on adapting is carving technique to his stance and board. He hangs out on the specialized hardboot carving forums, and sometimes asks for technical advice on there to try an adapt it to his style and equipment choice.


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## Fielding (Feb 15, 2015)

I got hard boots last season. It took about 8 outings to get set up right and for me to feel solid on a 21cm wide board. The gear is expensive. Unless you live in one of just a few places, you are going to have to buy online without being able to try stuff on or try it out. And set up and tuning require a lot more precision then when working with soft boots. You’re pretty much going to need somebody who knows what’s up to show you how to get started.

Why bother? Because you can go insanely fast and have tremendous control over the board. A skinny board goes rail to rail faster than a wider board. The amount of control that you gain with hard boots and plates is unfathomable until you’ve tried it. 

But is it a movement? A revolution? Definitely not. Most snowboarders are not going to be willing to buy the gear and sacrifice a bunch of fun days on the mountain to figure it out. Part of the appeal of soft boot snowboarding is that it’s very accessible. Alpine snowboarding is not. Even if it was, it’s definitely not goin to attract Park or freestyle enthusiasts. Same for folks who mostly ride pow. There are better tools for those jobs.


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## robotfood99 (Mar 19, 2016)

Mig Fullbag said:


> He rides a wide twin and duck stance solely becauses his riding style involves a LOT of switch tricks and switch carving. He knows very well the limitations of it and works very hard on adapting is carving technique to his stance and board. He hangs out on the specialized hardboot carving forums, and sometimes asks for technical advice on there to try an adapt it to his style and equipment choice.




That’s kind of my point, that one can ride a wide twin the way RK does if they work hard at it, not as a result of some magical equipment switch. A sudden switch to hammerhead bx racer deck from a normal recreational board just because it grips like hell is not a smart move.


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## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

I don't see it as a resurgence of the Euro, but as a growth in turning. For a long ass time groomers were simply your avenue from point to point and as soon as you could turn you were expected to be 8n the park or risk not being "cool". Well, all of us from then are grown up now and chucking our meat in the park doesn't seem too appealing. I pretty much solely carve, but have way more influence from more Asian sources. Western carving follows the fall line, you never really push your body away from it and just traverse it over and over. Asian carving is way more surf influenced, almost carving back up hill, flowing carves, following the turn all the way through. Euro is more abrupt and power oriented. Euro feels way more focused on just digging trenches and cranking hard, Asian feels way more concerned with the feel and flow and how it all looks and comes together.


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## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

Nivek said:


> Asian feels way more concerned with the feel and flow and how it all looks and comes together.


Perhaps the zen calligraphy influence


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## GDimac (Nov 19, 2015)

Nivek said:


> I don't see it as a resurgence of the Euro, but as a growth in turning. For a long ass time groomers were simply your avenue from point to point and as soon as you could turn you were expected to be 8n the park or risk not being "cool". Well, all of us from then are grown up now and chucking our meat in the park doesn't seem too appealing. I pretty much solely carve, but have way more influence from more Asian sources. Western carving follows the fall line, you never really push your body away from it and just traverse it over and over. Asian carving is way more surf influenced, almost carving back up hill, flowing carves, following the turn all the way through. Euro is more abrupt and power oriented. Euro feels way more focused on just digging trenches and cranking hard, Asian feels way more concerned with the feel and flow and how it all looks and comes together.


Good pts and ya, I feel that a lot of these Japanese turn specialists are on another level with their ability and make it look so beautiful; like an art form. I think the closest thing to that for western pro riders would prob be Alex Yoder imo. And he rides for Gentemstick no?

And btw @Nivek, finally got to take the Alter Ego out for the day. Gaddamn, is it an awesome board. Rode spring-like snow, tail unclipped was amazing. So much fun turning on it even in the mashed conditions. Took it on the jump line and had a ton of fun with it there too. I foresee having many days on this, this winter and for the unforeseeable future. Def a mainstay in the quiver now. What a beauty.


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## Clayton Bigsby (Oct 23, 2012)

I'll have to try and post this photo I have at home, its approx. 20-25 years old of a guy in full race gear (board, boots, bindings and spandex) getting 6 to 8' above the lip in a halfpipe, now that takes skill (and balls)


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## timmytard (Mar 19, 2009)

Oh yeah, it's coming back.
Haha, here's how I see it.:nerd:

There's a large chunk of snowboarders, that are turning into grandpa's:surprise:

I don't see too many grandpa's in the park:dry:



Even I tried it the year before last.
Luckily it was someone else's full setup, so it all fit together the way it was supposed to.

The boots were huge, but being super hard, I could get them tight enough.

So......
I did a total of 1 single groomed run.
In the pissing rain.

All you guys that have never tried a fruit boot setup.
Have only been skidding turns all over the mtn.

I thought I was carving, the past 27 years:crying:
Haha nope, not carving.
Skidding turns all over the mtn.

When you get in that perfect deep carve, all the sudden, it's like someone turned on a jet underneath the board.

You pick up speed incredibly fast. It's mind blowing really.

The most knowledgeable guy I know, in snowboarding as a whole, is a instructor at my old hill.

Not only is he an instructor, he does it in hard boots.

He's also hands down the best snowboarder I've ever ridden behind.
Haha cause you ain't EVER getting in front of him.

He also put on a slalom course every Saturday, staring the week after the mtn closes.
Gotta be close to 10 years running.

You don't even have to own a slalom board, he brings like 20 & sets up the cones on a timed dual slalom.

All the old guys try and beat their own & each others times.

Haha I have yet to make it even half way through the fucking course.
I get going to fast and bail before I take out all the cones.
Lol, the stupid timer doesn't mean shit to me.

Every year my old shut ass mtn has a Chinese downhill race.
That's only for the instructors, and behind closed doors.
They don't let the public see it, cause then we'd want one too pfft.

Every year there's a new bunch of instructors that think they're the shit.
They all shit talk each other.
Boris is kinda quiet, definitely not a bragger, he doesn't say shit.

Then when the day comes.
He fucking crushes them all.
I've heard stories from other instructors, that it's not even remotely close.

Borris rides insanely fast alpine boards.
Nobody else does, they don't have a chance.

Here's a portion of the only run I've ever done in fruit boots.
If you already know how to snowboard fairly good.
Do yourself a favor.
Try this, fuck is it ever fun.

[ame]https://vimeo.com/153500810[/ame]


TT


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## deagol (Mar 26, 2014)

timmytard said:


> .....
> 
> All you guys that have never tried a fruit boot setup.
> Have only been skidding turns all over the mtn.
> ...


There is a well-known Youtube snowboarder in Breckenridge who carves very well in soft boots, better than some people in hardboot setup. His name is Ryan Knapton. Check out the below video




. 
Both you and he have been saying the same thing about having wide board width for carving, which seems counter-intuitive to most folks. The wide board prevents the rider from "booting out" and allows a rider to keep a sideways stance, instead of having to use those extreme forward angles that are used on alpine setups. 
You guys are both correct, IMO. If wide boards ever catch on, I believe better carving could be a result. I have toe drag issues on my "carving" board because it's too narrow (which is very ironic) and I don't want to change my stance angle to the extreme used by hardbooters. I don't think the highback would even support heelside turns if it is rotated beyond 45 degrees, or so, your calf would probably just slip off to the side. I rode hard boots on a race board one day and it was fun and way more chalenging than "regular" snowboarding, but I don't imagine it would appeal to the masses.


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## Morzak (Dec 22, 2016)

deagol said:


> There is a well-known Youtube snowboarder in Breckenridge who carves very well in soft boots, better than some people in hardboot setup. His name is Ryan Knapton. Check out the below video
> 
> 
> Both you and he have been saying the same thing about having wide board width for carving, which seems counter-intuitive to most folks. The wide board prevents the rider from "booting out" and allows a rider to keep a sideways stance, instead of having to use those extreme forward angles that are used on alpine setups.
> You guys are both correct, IMO. If wide boards ever catch on, I believe better carving could be a result. I have toe drag issues on my "carving" board because it's too narrow (which is very ironic) and I don't want to change my stance angle to the extreme used by hardbooters. I don't think the highback would even support heelside turns if it is rotated beyond 45 degrees, or so, your calf would probably just slip off to the side. I rode *hard boots on a race board* one day and it was fun and way more chalenging than "regular" snowboarding, but I don't imagine it would appeal to the masses.


I htink one of the issue, with trying out Hardboots is that many people will have their first experience with a Full Race Board maybe even a GS style board, and those are just so different to anything that people are used to. If someone wants to try a Hardboot setup I would recommend to try a Freecarve or an Hardboot allmountain board first, something like a Donek Axxess, an F2 Speedster GTS (but I believe they are discontinued)or whatever is available that is a bit more allmountain oriented. It will make it easier to control the boards a lower speeds, and be easier to manipulate if you're not just railing turns. I wen't back to Softboots since it is just easier to get gear and actually try it and not just order everything online.

As for Wide boards I agree that if you wan't to carve deep you need a wide deck unless you have small feet, I bought a Korua Tranny Finder 57 and even with my 29.5 MP Boots I will probably only boot out if I go extremely low and the now is soft. Since going back from Hardboot to Softboots I'm Still struggling with Backside carves, the trust is just not there especially if it gets steeper, This will probably be my main thing to work on this season when it gets to Carving.

I think overall the focus on Carving and Turning will be good for Snowboarding, because it makes it a bit more approachable to the average joe, that probably will not ride a lot of park or do a lot of Backcountry riding.


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## Aracan (Nov 24, 2017)

> Western carving follows the fall line, you never really push your body away from it and just traverse it over and over.


Not in my experience. That is another "carver vs. racer" mix-up. The alpine carvers I know (including myself) are usually the only ones on a given hill that do stray far from the fall line. Try to get in touch with (or google) the Pureboarding guys - there are some in the US, and they are perfect for softboot riders who want to try the hard stuff.

As to Ryan Knapton: He is certainly one of the most accomplished snowboarders I have ever seen on video. Those of his videos where he is riding duck also show hardly any serious backsides. He will do one every one or two dozen frontsides, if the conditions are absolutely perfect. That is not his limitation, but his stance's - when he rides directional, his backsides are flawless.


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## timmytard (Mar 19, 2009)

deagol said:


> There is a well-known Youtube snowboarder in Breckenridge who carves very well in soft boots, better than some people in hardboot setup. His name is Ryan Knapton. Check out the below video
> Ryan Knapton.
> Both you and he have been saying the same thing about having wide board width for carving, which seems counter-intuitive to most folks. The wide board prevents the rider from "booting out" and allows a rider to keep a sideways stance, instead of having to use those extreme forward angles that are used on alpine setups.
> You guys are both correct, IMO. If wide boards ever catch on, I believe better carving could be a result. I have toe drag issues on my "carving" board because it's too narrow (which is very ironic) and I don't want to change my stance angle to the extreme used by hardbooters. I don't think the highback would even support heelside turns if it is rotated beyond 45 degrees, or so, your calf would probably just slip off to the side. I rode hard boots on a race board one day and it was fun and way more chalenging than "regular" snowboarding, but I don't imagine it would appeal to the masses.


That carving ability thing isn't the sole reason why I personally prefer the wider decks.

First just that huge edge, I like to be able to stop on slopes like this steep \
I wouldn't go near that on a narrow board.

Second is float, powder's the best thing ever.
If there's some, I'm getting it.
I'll hike, ride down the sketchiest shit to get it.

Having a wider board is a tool, to get more powder.

Being able to rail super deep carves, is just a bonus. Haha.

I need a camera guy haha

TT


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## Aracan (Nov 24, 2017)

If you don't go beyond a certain angle, it goes without saying that you need a corresponding minimum deck width to avoid boot-out. And with a softboot setup, steeper angles do not make mechanical sense because once you have rotated your bindings past the highback, a lot of force will go untransmitted. 
On the other hand, alpine is not the same as steep. My alpine (not race) deck has a 24.5 waist because I'm not interested in riding 60+ angles. I know alpine riders who use a smaller shell on the rear foot to accommodate the lowest possible angle.
A more interesting discussion might be how stance (duck vs. directional) affects carving ability: quite noticeably, if Mr Knapton's videos are anything to go by.


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## chomps1211 (Mar 30, 2011)

_Threadjack;_ 

...Might be a stupid ?? But is there some way to tell for certain whether one is sliding out on a deep carve due to boot out as opposed to just "Bad" technique? 

I can hold a toeside carve fairly reliably. But on my heel side turns at speed, I would estimate more than 65-70% if the time I wash out and ass bounce down the slope. :blink:

I ride Cartels On all 3 of my boards and even tho I have my bindings set in the most Toe forward position allowable,... I am still more heel heavy than toe for overhang. 

I can't help wondering if _this_ is why I have so much trouble holding a fast, heelside rail? (...then again, I'm not so talented a rider that it couldn't be piss poor technique!) :shrug:


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## Fielding (Feb 15, 2015)

RK mixes in carving w butters and spin tricks in a unique way. He’s developed a cool style. Its not just about the carving. Most alpine rigs I ever ever seen wouldn’t really support his style. It looks like he has the right tool for riding the way he wants to ride, where he rides.
I’ve got a super wide soft boot setup too. I can carve it OK. But it feels slow. It doesn’t feel nimble to me. Cross under turns are sluggish and awkward. It feels good in powder and floats nicely. But urging it to go where you want it to go requires a lot of deliberate, almost exaggerated input by the rider. I might like the board better if i rode more powder on bigger mountains with wider runs. I acknowledge that possibility. Where I am I have to deal with a lot of ice and hardpack on very narrow trails. I don’t butter or spin. It’s just not what I do. I like to ride fast and make big turns. And I like to carve off of natural features, surf style. So lately I’m feeling like an all mountain style hardboot rig with hella sharp edges (-1 base, -3 sides), a stance with both front and back in the mid fifties, and a good wax job is the right tool for doing what I want to do.


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## Phedder (Sep 13, 2014)

chomps1211 said:


> _Threadjack;_
> 
> ...Might be a stupid ?? But is there some way to tell for certain whether one is sliding out on a deep carve due to boot out as opposed to just "Bad" technique?
> 
> ...


In my experience, you feel heel drag instantly. It's very obvious when you've lost your edge due to the heel of your boot, or heel cup of your binding, hitting the snow. 

I see a lot of people skip out on heelside carves because they're a little too stiff in the legs, too bent at the waist, and too far on the back foot too early. It's a timing and positioning thing. I think a good heelside carve starts with trying to get your lead shoulder and lead knee, more towards your heelside nose contact point, and as you move through the turn, you should be squatting more, keeping your shoulders back/chest up while gradually moving your weight to centered on the board and then finish the turn off your back foot, when you start to extend you body again to roll into the next turn. 

Also I think rather than letting the sidecut do it's job, a lot of people are impatient with heelside carves, try to use their back foot to tighten up the carve which results in a little skid or slide with the tail of the board, making things worse. Then you get the skipping out/butt slide of doom >


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

chomps1211 said:


> _Threadjack;_
> 
> ...Might be a stupid ?? But is there some way to tell for certain whether one is sliding out on a deep carve due to boot out as opposed to just "Bad" technique?
> 
> ...


Likely technique. Probably your weight (whole body) is too far backwards and not low (knees not bent) enough. 
Also if your bindings are too far heelside, then you need smaller bindings or bindings with adjustable heelcup. If it's not too far, it's no big deal; but if its considerably more heel hang the toe, then a better binding fit is good.

The heelside 'carve' is the hardest to nail down. Takes years to even bring to a decent level.

Try a double fwd stance for a little bit, and you will see how incredibly improved your heelside turns get. You dont have to keep the ++, but it would show the issue is most likely technique, stance, the way you apply forces, adjust, etc. That's why Ryan Knapton has been making an incredible effort to get awesome carving with duck stance. It needs some adjustments, and really good technique. So... trying a ++ shows you how good your heelside carves can be... even if you go back to duck and say.... well, I can live with the loss in heelside or just work like Ryan K. to improve it.


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## ItchEtrigR (Jan 1, 2012)

F1EA said:


> The heelside 'carve' is the hardest to nail down. Takes years to even bring to a decent level.


This!, my heel side is just as shit. Too far forward and my tail wants to whip around on me, too far back and i scarve. I find it difficult to get that balance just right. Nailing a good looking toe side is chump change. 



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## Ckoch407 (May 1, 2016)

chomps1211 said:


> _Threadjack;_
> 
> ...Might be a stupid ?? But is there some way to tell for certain whether one is sliding out on a deep carve due to boot out as opposed to just "Bad" technique?
> 
> ...



When I was going through the beginning progression of heelside carves, I had the same problem at first. A couple things that helped me dial it in:

First time I started getting close was when I adjusted my high backs as far forward as they would go, and started grabbing the toeside edge of the board through the turn. This helped me really get it on edge and engage the side cut, and hold it through more of the turn. This broke me out of trying to force through the turn. Then, once I knew what it really felt like for the board to turn on it’s own along the side cut, I focused on flexion, extension, and weight distribution to keep the edge engaged throughout the turn until I got it. 

Now I can tell when I lose edge from heel drag. It usually happens in softer snow for me. You will go from that sweet feel of being on edge arcing through the radius, and then it happens and you feel it in the heel cup. 


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

ItchEtrigR said:


> This!, my heel side is just as shit. Too far forward and my tail wants to whip around on me, too far back and i scarve. I find it difficult to get that balance just right. Nailing a good looking toe side is chump change.


Lol "scarve"  great word!

Try to tilt more; lift your toes when you feel the scratching begins. Heelside is harder cos it feels less natural to tilt the edge decently.

I still regularly screw heelside carves on hardpack cos I'm too timid to _really_ tilt, afraid of falling onto the buttocks- and of course, like that, edge does slip n scratch.


----------



## Fielding (Feb 15, 2015)

If your tail wants to come around it might be that you’ve unwittingly unweighted your front foot. You gotta keep your foot on the gas and your center of mass up there with the front of the board in the first part of the turn. Otherwise you get that hopping skidding thing where you lose your line -especially on a heelside. Fully committed heelside turns in less than ideal conditions typically require two IPAs.



neni said:


> ItchEtrigR said:
> 
> 
> > This!, my heel side is just as shit. Too far forward and my tail wants to whip around on me, too far back and i scarve. I find it difficult to get that balance just right. Nailing a good looking toe side is chump change.
> ...


----------



## deagol (Mar 26, 2014)

neni said:


> Lol "scarve"  great word!


I've also seen the term "Slarve" used- a silde/carve, I guess....


----------



## deagol (Mar 26, 2014)

chomps1211 said:


> _Threadjack;_
> 
> ...Might be a stupid ?? But is there some way to tell for certain whether one is sliding out on a deep carve due to boot out as opposed to just "Bad" technique?
> 
> ...


Looks like you got good answers from a few here on this question, but one thing to add: when you boot-out, in my experience, sometimes you can actually feel the thing (either your heel or toe) digging in and grabbing- but not always. Sometimes I will actually look down at my edge when on a steep angle to see what is happening. I was at the ski area today and saw my back toe buckle getting ripped backwards due to toe drag, but I could not feel it while it was happening. I saw the evidence (damage) from the toe drag but couldn't feel it. I adjusted the toe cap by loosening it one hole on the strap so the buckle would be less exposed (allowing the cap to rotate more towards the tail of the board and outside of my rear foot) and it worked. This was combined with mounting the binding as close as possible to the heelside edge of tho board- so kind of opposite of the problem you seem to be having.

Other days when the snow is more firm, I can actually feel it through the boot. 

I have made several tweaks to my setup and think I have finally solved my boot-out problems after today, so am very happy about that. Carving is a lot of fun when you get all the bugs worked out.


----------



## Alpine Duke (Jun 21, 2015)

Back to the OP:

I don't think it is "coming back". Groms want nothing but park, buttering, etc so you don't have to worry if, for some reason, it bothers you that some of us like carving. 

I have tried so hard to get my kids to value a perfect, skillful carve down the hill with minimal or better yet, no skidding. But, they just look at me and wonder why they would go for that? ha ha...they are into straight bombin', jumps, park, buttering, and racing each other. Finesse is not their thing. they are skilled riders, but focused in a different area. They can carve and.....sometimes do, but don't really want to spend their time doing it and perfecting it. I have an old, hardboot setup i am trying to get one of them to use and learn to do. They just aren't interested.

I spent most of the 90s with the US Navy, even overseas and missed the brief, hardboot phase. When I saw someone on one I thought it was a monoboard. Then I rode with a friend of mine while he was on one and he educated me on the difference. What speed and control!! I knew i had to get one and get it wired. Took tons of effort on my part!! Still getting it wired. love it!!

I love softboots still and particularly for pow. Love carving perfect, softboot lines on the Fullbag Diamond Blade and love riding others in the quiver. I like lots of riding methods and think everyone else should too or else they are missing out. BUT.....I guess they look at me when I pass up the park and think "that old man doesn't know what he is missing".....AND.....they are probably right! :snowboard4::thumbsup:

p.s. I don't get the armpit drag thing. I want to get low, low....but never touch. But...that is just what i want. If someone wants to drag their armpit...I just smile and hope they don't hurt themselves :hairy:


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## deagol (Mar 26, 2014)

I am with you, Alpine Duke..

I was up riding today and didn't see anyone carving much at all (Euro or otherwise). There was a good place to practice, but I just got to thinking: even if I could Eurocarve, I wouldn't want to. I don't wanna be dragging my body/face along the snow. That already happens unintentionally when I crash, but I can't see doing it on purpose. To be clear, I admire the skill of those that can do it, but I am not among them. I still love the g-forces of a good carve, but don't want snow spraying me in the face like that.


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## Aracan (Nov 24, 2017)

deagol said:


> even if I could Eurocarve, I wouldn't want to.


I have finally reached the point where I can actually lay down a halfway decent FS, and sometimes even something in the way of a BS. I realized that while it is fun on occasion, it is not the biggest fun I have with carving. The biggest fun is carving a slope that I would never have dreamed of being able to consistently carve three years ago - engaging the downhill edge into a backside turn on a black diamond run. That is where the top half of my head nearly falls off from all the grinning.


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

deagol said:


> To be clear, I admire the skill of those that can do it, but I am not among them. I still love the g-forces of a good carve, but don't want snow spraying me in the face like that.


Agree. I've never aimed at those belly to slope type of carves.

The g-force out of a sweet carve, to get that spot where the acceleration hits, find the timing to get most pop out of it and jump right out of it right into the next carve and don't screw the line doing this transition, that's the funnest part to me and produces big smiles if I succeed.


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## kosmoz (Dec 27, 2013)

If I wanted my legs in plastic boots and slide only face forward - I'd go alpine skiing. Took on snowboarding because of versatility, powder, comfortable boots.


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## Aracan (Nov 24, 2017)

kosmoz said:


> Took on snowboarding because of versatility


That's just another way of saying "my compromise is better than yours". As soon as anybody straps, buckles, steps - whatever - onto a snowboard, they have committed to a compromise, because no setup performs optimally in all conditions. Your compromise may be biased more towards off-piste and tricks, while mine is biased toward on-piste and carving. Both, however, can do a lot of things they are not perfectly adapted for. Yes, I ride powder, and a 24.5 waist is plenty enough for all the powder I am likely to encounter at my usual haunts.
As for the boots - sorry, I cannot concentrate enough to formulate a concise reply. Must be the excruciating pain from those boots. Incredible that after 40+ years of hardshell boots no one has bothered to make them comfortable.


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## ItchEtrigR (Jan 1, 2012)

Fielding said:


> If your tail wants to come around it might be that you’ve unwittingly unweighted your front foot. You gotta keep your foot on the gas and your center of mass up there with the front of the board in the first part of the turn. Otherwise you get that hopping skidding thing where you lose your line -especially on a heelside. Fully committed heelside turns in less than ideal conditions typically require two IPAs.


Yeah, could be, It also might be too much counter rotation, my form is shit, never took lessons, I can nail a toe side cause it's easier to be aligned with the board on a steep edge.

Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk


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## Fielding (Feb 15, 2015)

Properly fitted hard boots are the most comfortable, supportive boots I’ve ever worn. I’m talking custom heatmold liners and custom footbeds. Every buckle micro adjusted to provide perfect pressure. An aftermarket spring system to permit fine tuning of fore/aft lean. The kind of signal transfer I get from body to board is unbelievable. When I ride softs it feels like I’m rinding on top of a board and I can make some suggestions as to where it should go. When I’m buckled into my tricked out UPZ RC 10s and locked onto a board with some metal in it then I can make it go damn near anywhere on the mountain. I mean like going uphill for considerable distances. It’s like whoa. But walking around in them kinda sucks balls.

One thing to add: a shit ton of people who think they are laying out euro carves in softies are not doing that at all. Seems like bros just be bending themselves at the waist or flopping onto the snow just for the sake of being low. (Or thinking they are low.) I’ve seen this kind of riding featured recently in some manufacturer’s vids and stills. Looks like butt. If you see someone who’s really good bust some ECs you’ll notice that they don’t dive for the snow. They certainly don’t bend at the waist in order to get their torso to drag. Being low is not the end goal. It’s more of a side effect of pulling very fast turns with board angulation maxed out. A real EC style rider doesn’t reach for the snow. Instead the snow reaches for him.




Aracan said:


> kosmoz said:
> 
> 
> > Took on snowboarding because of versatility
> ...


----------



## kosmoz (Dec 27, 2013)

Fielding said:


> But walking around in them kinda sucks balls.


This. Of course we are skiing/snowboarding and that where everything matters the most, but walking from house to ski bus, to gondola/chairlift, walking around in eating places on the mountain is also a part of the game. And with softboots one can walk like in a pair of sneakers with comfort and not destroing those boots.


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## Aracan (Nov 24, 2017)

kosmoz said:


> walking around in eating places on the mountain is also a part of the game.


Seriously? I am really, honestly surprised, nay, nonplussed. It's as if a former rock climber told me he switched to basketball because the sneakers are more comfy. And that's before we have taken into account that hardshell boots are orders of magnitude more comfy than climbing shoes. It takes all sorts, I guess ...


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## Morzak (Dec 22, 2016)

Man all this animosity between softboot and hardboot boarder is so annoying... You choose the Equipment that fits for you and you like the most. Everyone is just trying to have Fun on the Mountain. But I would say it would be a good experience for a softboot rider to try out some hardboot equipment if he never did that before and vice versa.


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## Aracan (Nov 24, 2017)

Morzak said:


> You choose the Equipment that fits for you and you like the most.


Amen to that. I was merely expressing my bafflement at the fact that someone would select snowboarding equipment based on its non-snowboarding performance. Until now I thought that softboot riders (just like hb riders) made their choice because it fit their riding better.


----------



## Rip154 (Sep 23, 2017)

Fielding said:


> A real EC style rider doesn’t reach for the snow. Instead the snow reaches for him.


----------



## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

https://youtu.be/EEzzdwhcSnw

You'll have to click as I'm apparently mobile illiterate. It's relevant and showcases one of the best carvers I've been on, which is also only $400...


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## chomps1211 (Mar 30, 2011)

Nivek said:


> https://youtu.be/EEzzdwhcSnw
> 
> You'll have to click as I'm apparently mobile illiterate. It's relevant and showcases one of the best carvers I've been on, which is also only $400...


Thought Idygo ahead & fix that fer ya as it is *definitely* worth a watch.  Not typical EC's but fun to watch. (...Slice & Dice 2 is worth watching too if anybody's interested. ) :grin:


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## buddhafist24 (Dec 31, 2008)

Nivek said:


> https://youtu.be/EEzzdwhcSnw
> 
> You'll have to click as I'm apparently mobile illiterate. It's relevant and showcases one of the best carvers I've been on, which is also only $400...


What is your go to carving board you ride most?

Are you referring to the Nidecker Area?


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## Fielding (Feb 15, 2015)

Not exactly what I meant. But damn that snow is reaching for him huh?


Rip154 said:


> Fielding said:
> 
> 
> > A real EC style rider doesn’t reach for the snow. Instead the snow reaches for him.


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## Snow Hound (Jul 21, 2012)

Nivek said:


> https://youtu.be/EEzzdwhcSnw
> 
> You'll have to click as I'm apparently mobile illiterate. It's relevant and showcases one of the best carvers I've been on, which is also only $400...


Woot! Brits that can ride... even rocked up in a Transit.


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## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

buddhafist24 said:


> What is your go to carving board you ride most?
> 
> Are you referring to the Nidecker Area?


Right now probably the Ride Alter Ego. 

The Area was indeed what I was talking about. I am looking forward to riding the Concept asap.


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## Alpine Duke (Jun 21, 2015)

chomps1211 said:


> Thought Idygo ahead & fix that fer ya as it is *definitely* worth a watch.  Not typical EC's but fun to watch. (...Slice & Dice 2 is worth watching too if anybody's interested. ) :grin:
> 
> Love those wide open, huge slopes they have in Europe.


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

Snow Hound said:


> Woot! Brits that can ride... even rocked up in a Transit.


They even sprayed a skier 


Also,that one rail grab revert nose press thingy was pretty cool.


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## Fielding (Feb 15, 2015)

Looks like they’re having fun in the video. And I like the focus on ripping big turns. And that was cool how that one bro smoked a doobie. But turning while throwing your torso down on the ground with your butt sticking in the air looks completely whack. Is it just for the purpose of shredding shells and gloves? Is that why it’s being pushed in some of these recent ads? It’ ultimately looks like a bad attempt at mimicking euro carving or Extreme carving. A real laid out carve happens organically when you when you anguulate your board to the extreme In order to hold your speed through a no skid turn. The laid out part is more of a side effect than it is the central purpose of the act. 

When I see somebody doing the torso flop faux euro carve it reminds me of when i see a bro surfing a 2 foot wave and he sticks his head under the lip as the wave crashes. Then he raises his hands in triumph. Yeah buddy! nice tube ride! 




Nivek said:


> https://youtu.be/EEzzdwhcSnw
> 
> You'll have to click as I'm apparently mobile illiterate. It's relevant and showcases one of the best carvers I've been on, which is also only $400...


----------



## 16gkid (Dec 5, 2012)

just spent the last 8 days boarding through the Vail resorts on my rossignol sushi, it's suppose to be a powder board but they accidently built a groomer killer, I was able to do body dragging carves on this board and even some pretty long jump carves (1-3 feet), best riding you can do when there's no snow! You know your carves are good when even the skiers give you props


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## SGboarder (Jun 24, 2012)

Fielding said:


> Looks like they’re having fun in the video. And I like the focus on ripping big turns. And that was cool how that one bro smoked a doobie. But turning while throwing your torso down on the ground with your butt sticking in the air looks completely whack. Is it just for the purpose of shredding shells and gloves? Is that why it’s being pushed in some of these recent ads? It’ ultimately looks like a bad attempt at mimicking euro carving or Extreme carving. A real laid out carve happens organically when you when you anguulate your board to the extreme In order to hold your speed through a no skid turn. The laid out part is more of a side effect than it is the central purpose of the act.
> 
> When I see somebody doing the torso flop faux euro carve it reminds me of when i see a bro surfing a 2 foot wave and he sticks his head under the lip as the wave crashes. Then he raises his hands in triumph. Yeah buddy! nice tube ride!


That +1000. Fun video, yes. Extreme/eurocarving, not even close.


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## fruitylooper (May 30, 2012)

SGboarder said:


> That +1000. Fun video, yes. Extreme/eurocarving, not even close.


Eh? Did we watch the same video? 

There were plenty of pure euro carves in this video. The 'butt in air' turns are an entirely different type of carve but are also super fun to do.

If popping a front 3 over your buddy while he's laying out a euro carve isn't extreme carving i don't know what is....


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## Mig Fullbag (Apr 15, 2014)

16gkid said:


> You know your carves are good when even the skiers give you props


Yeah but the thing is, skiers didn't know shit about carving before they copied it from snowboarders...


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## deagol (Mar 26, 2014)

fruitylooper said:


> Eh? Did we watch the same video?
> 
> There were plenty of pure euro carves in this video. T......


Yup, right at the beginning, no less: 28 seconds, 43 seconds, 1:08 and more...


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## ItchEtrigR (Jan 1, 2012)

That was a pretty sick vid, thanks for sharing that nivek, I'm pretty stoked now.

Euro carving or not, I'll leave that to the experts, but fuck me if that's not how I dream I'll be able to snowboard one day.

Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk


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## GDimac (Nov 19, 2015)

Euro carving at it's best imo, by arguably my fave turners in the game. The latest offering by Korua Shapes: Yearning for Turning series.








https://youtu.be/Pn-VV8JMgiM


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## SGboarder (Jun 24, 2012)

deagol said:


> Yup, right at the beginning, no less: 28 seconds, 43 seconds, 1:08 and more...


@28s impossible to tell
@43s definitely not eurocarving
@1:08 may be (but I doubt it)

Still fun, but would not get any points in a eurocarving contest.


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

ItchEtrigR said:


> That was a pretty sick vid, thanks for sharing that nivek, I'm pretty stoked now.
> 
> Euro carving or not, I'll leave that to the experts, but fuck me if that's not how I dream I'll be able to snowboard one day.
> 
> Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk


Yup, doesn't matter if it is proper euro carving or not. It definitely looks fun.

Also the Korua vids are all pretty awesome.


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## kosmoz (Dec 27, 2013)

Fielding said:


> When I see somebody doing the torso flop faux euro carve it reminds me of when i see a bro surfing a 2 foot wave and he sticks his head under the lip as the wave crashes. Then he raises his hands in triumph. Yeah buddy! nice tube ride!


is snowboarding about having fun, or about looking legit for some shitty, always unhappy, hardbooter?


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## Aracan (Nov 24, 2017)

kosmoz said:


> is snowboarding about having fun, or about looking legit for some shitty, always unhappy, hardbooter?


I guess we have a winner. I was wondering when the name-calling was going to start.


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

I just want to get pitted.


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## NYTSNOW (Nov 27, 2012)

i gotta say it was set off by the hokkaido scene at it's core and trickled down to europe and the US. it's been building for years from the interest with what's been going on with gentem, moss, and the other snowsurfing guys in japan. i mean just look all the different shaped boards across the entire industry (1000% japan influence).


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

SGboarder said:


> That +1000. Fun video, yes. Extreme/eurocarving, not even close.


I think everyone misunderstood SG.

That video in question was indeed not extreme/euro carving.

Doesnt matter much because it was still carving; just not extreme euro carving. That's all he said.

And that's actually a good thing  

I'm with the Hokkaido crew. :snowboard4: :snowplow:h34r:


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## SGboarder (Jun 24, 2012)

NYTSNOW said:


> i gotta say it was set off by the hokkaido scene at it's core and trickled down to europe and the US. it's been building for years from the interest with what's been going on with gentem, moss, and the other snowsurfing guys in japan. i mean just look all the different shaped boards across the entire industry (1000% japan influence).


What!?!?!? Very few people in Japan are into hard carving. Why would they be with all that beautiful pow around...


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## 16gkid (Dec 5, 2012)

SGboarder said:


> What!?!?!? Very few people in Japan are into hard carving. Why would they be with all that beautiful pow around...


Ive been watching japanese carving videos from japan all week, that cant be accurate https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=japanese+snowboard+carving


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## SGboarder (Jun 24, 2012)

16gkid said:


> Ive been watching japanese carving videos from japan all week, that cant be accurate https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=japanese+snowboard+carving


1. I maintain that very few people ride this way in Japan. Are there some? Absolutely, but they're far and few between. And to suggest that hard carving (let alone Eurocarving) has 'trickled down from this is preposterous.
2. Nice carved cross-under turns in the linked video(s) but it has absolutely f*ck all to do with extreme carving (let alone Eurocarving).


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## SGboarder (Jun 24, 2012)

F1EA said:


> I think everyone misunderstood SG.
> 
> That video in question was indeed not extreme/euro carving.
> 
> ...


Exactly. 

I repeat:
Nice video - yes.
Super fund riding - yes.
Eurocarving - no.


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

SGboarder said:


> Exactly.
> 
> I repeat:
> Nice video - yes.
> ...


Some claim that Pizza Hut is actually selling _pizza_... 

Thus... I think you mean this type of pizza:
https://youtu.be/4Vl-DzZ0KzA


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## 16gkid (Dec 5, 2012)

neni said:


> Some claim that Pizza Hut is actually selling _pizza_...
> 
> Thus... I think you mean this type of pizza:
> https://youtu.be/4Vl-DzZ0KzA


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## Demi9OD (Dec 23, 2014)

I really enjoyed spending my last trip to the Rockies laying down carves on the groomed front side all morning when the back side was ice, then moving to the back side after it softened up in the sun. Every year before last I had a "ride every slope" completionist mentality, but following the good snow became my mantra instead and I am sticking with it from now on. I can't EC like the pros but I found I could really enjoy bombing down uncrowded greens and blues laying down pencil thin lines and trying to flow as gracefully as possible, just as much as conquering the more difficult terrain. The 162 Blunt Diamond I picked up made a huge difference in my enjoyment. I really didn't find groomers much fun on my 156 Niche Story the previous year, too squirrelly. I can't get with huge forward angles and hard boots, but as I get older I am certainly loving camber and carving a lot more than I ever thought I would.


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## SGboarder (Jun 24, 2012)

neni said:


> Some claim that Pizza Hut is actually selling _pizza_...
> 
> Thus... I think you mean this type of pizza:
> https://youtu.be/4Vl-DzZ0KzA


You'll enjoy this then:
Jon Stewart Launches into Glorious Rant Against Deep Dish Pizza from


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

neni said:


> Some claim that Pizza Hut is actually selling _pizza_...
> 
> Thus... I think you mean this type of pizza:
> https://youtu.be/4Vl-DzZ0KzA


I don't wanna snowboard anymore.


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

16gkid said:


>


Yeah, right? Pizza Hut is disgusting
>


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## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

neni said:


> Yeah, right? Pizza Hut is disgusting
> >


In the most amazing and delicious way possible.



Buddy's in Detroit is tops though.


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## riderriderpow77 (Jan 11, 2015)

First of all pizza hut is a tier 1 fast food pizza experience!

Secondly, weird analogy, but this sounds like the skater making fun of longboarders lol.

Thirdly, of course this it was a troll post mostly, but hey complaining about someone that actually can carve and not skiid?:blahblah:

tricks are for kids !!!!!


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## linvillegorge (Jul 6, 2009)




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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

Euro carving.
Lots of euro carving.


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## chomps1211 (Mar 30, 2011)

neni said:


> Yeah, right? Pizza Hut is disgusting
> >


_That's *not*_ Pizza!!  :laugh:


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

chomps1211 said:


> _That's *not*_ Pizza!!  :laugh:


I knew you'll get it


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

SGboarder said:


> You'll enjoy this then:
> Jon Stewart Launches into Glorious Rant Against Deep Dish Pizza from
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wNwP3QO6dhI


Lol. Exactly! Thanks for the laugh :laugh:


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## GDimac (Nov 19, 2015)

@F1EA showed this gem to me yesterday and got me so hype. Representing us east coast riders very well. Solid new video @Mig Fullbag.


Feel The Turn






*https://youtu.be/orG46GPiQRA


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## 16gkid (Dec 5, 2012)

GDimac said:


> @F1EA showed this gem to me yesterday and got me so hype. Representing us east coast riders very well. Solid new video @Mig Fullbag.
> 
> 
> Feel The Turn
> ...


Yes! awesome video, reminded me of Mt Bach last year trying to chase down the Sbf crew!


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## chomps1211 (Mar 30, 2011)

Freakin' Awesome vid!!! :cheer: Way to build a board Mig!! :laugh:


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## Mig Fullbag (Apr 15, 2014)

GDimac said:


> @F1EA showed this gem to me yesterday and got me so hype. Representing us east coast riders very well. Solid new video @Mig Fullbag.
> 
> 
> Feel The Turn
> ...


Thanks @GDimac !!!


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## Argo (Feb 25, 2010)

16gkid said:


> Yes! awesome video, reminded me of Mt Bach last year trying to chase down the Sbf crew!


I even had one of those boards.


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## Morzak (Dec 22, 2016)

Man that is a nice video, just cam back from 4 days riding and makes me want to get back into the mountains again. Really need to work on my backside in steeper terrain and harder snow. Really makes me want to try out a Fullbag, but i assume it will be hard to get hold of a demo deck in europe :/


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## pomeranian (Mar 25, 2018)

SGboarder said:


> @28s impossible to tell
> @43s definitely not eurocarving
> @1:08 may be (but I doubt it)
> 
> Still fun, but would not get any points in a eurocarving contest.


Who said anything about a eurocarving contest or whether it was extreme carving or not? And who cares?
Stop needlessly policing others' creativity and go achieve something yourself so you feel better, you massive fun sponge.


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## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

GDimac said:


> @F1EA showed this gem to me yesterday and got me so hype. Representing us east coast riders very well. Solid new video @Mig Fullbag.
> 
> 
> Feel The Turn
> ...


Awesome vid! So a question to @Mig Fullbag and others. I have a couple of older ski buds trying to get me to do some high speed groomers up at BlackComb. However these gents put in 70-75k of vert in a day and regularly hitting mid 70's mph. There is no way to even keep up with any thing in my current quiver. Stats 60yrs old, 180#/82kg, 5'6" and size 6.5 mens boots. Btw got some AT atomic backland fruit boots and could easily pick up some plates...so any recommendations for hardboot plates and boards. Thanks


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## Scalpelman (Dec 5, 2017)

Wow. 70mph. I’m not worthy. 

Sweet video. Excellent editing. Getting me pumped for spring. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Mig Fullbag (Apr 15, 2014)

wrathfuldeity said:


> Awesome vid! So a question to @Mig Fullbag and others. I have a couple of older ski buds trying to get me to do some high speed groomers up at BlackComb. However these gents put in 70-75k of vert in a day and regularly hitting mid 70's mph. There is no way to even keep up with any thing in my current quiver. Stats 60yrs old, 180#/82kg, 5'6" and size 6.5 mens boots. Btw got some AT atomic backland fruit boots and could easily pick up some plates...so any recommendations for hardboot plates and boards. Thanks


Thanks @wrathfuldeity !!! Nothing in my line-up would fit your stats for hitting groomers at those kind of sustained speeds (but the Lightwave could be a fun pow and mellow carving board for you).

Guessing your buds are mainly straightlining it and just following the trail's natural turns, or Super G carving on super wide groomers, cause we are talking World Cup Super G and Downhill skiing speeds here. Pretty rad for over 60 dudes! Your probably gonna have to look at something custom from builders like Prior, Coiler, Donek, Kessler, Oxess, etc... Look at something with a very long effective edge (over 145cm at your weight), camber dominant but with some light early rise / decamber to avoid catchyness (like most modern alpine racing boards), and metal construction (titanal) for maximum dampening.

As for the AT hardboots, I would read up and ask on specialized alpine forums like Bomber as I remember reading not all plate bindings fit them properly and might need some adjustments. They also have a longer boot sole length then snowboard hardboots, but at your boot size I don't think that's a problem.

If you are going for a more freeride friendly setup with lower hardboot binding angles, Phantom splitboard plates makes a solid board version that looks interesting. That's something I would love to try with modified AT boots on my Hammerhead 181. I think they are made to fit the Dynafit TLT6 specifically. You might have to contact them to see if your Atomic's fit.


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

pomeranian said:


> Who said anything about a eurocarving contest or whether it was extreme carving or not? And who cares?
> Stop needlessly policing others' creativity and go achieve something yourself so you feel better, you massive fun sponge.


This would have been cooler if you had used your real username.....

C'mon.... man up.


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## 16gkid (Dec 5, 2012)

Nothing kills the carving stoke on this site like having the same 3-4 people chime in on every thread telling everyone what theyre doing isnt actually carving, and posting up old ass videos of people in hardboots, seriously almost no one gives a fuck about that. Ill keep getting low and carving on my pow board and sticking my butt out (seriously, where are u suppose to put it?)and most importantly, HAVING FUN, while those nerds break down "proper technique" on here.


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## Argo (Feb 25, 2010)

Every once in a while i video myself and it reminds me not to video myself. I dont look stylish or proper at all. I dont care either.

I do say "your not carving" to people that come and say they have been riding twice and have carving down. 



16gkid said:


> Nothing kills the carving stoke on this site like having the same 3-4 people chime in on every thread telling everyone what theyre doing isnt actually carving, and posting up old ass videos of people in hardboots, seriously almost no one gives a fuck about that. Ill keep getting low and carving on my pow board and sticking my butt out (seriously, where are u suppose to put it?)and most importantly, HAVING FUN, while those nerds break down "proper technique" on here.


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## linvillegorge (Jul 6, 2009)

16gkid said:


> Nothing kills the carving stoke on this site like having the same 3-4 people chime in on every thread telling everyone what theyre doing isnt actually carving, and posting up old ass videos of people in hardboots, seriously almost no one gives a fuck about that. Ill keep getting low and carving on my pow board and sticking my butt out (seriously, where are u suppose to put it?)and most importantly, HAVING FUN, while those nerds break down "proper technique" on here.


This. So much this. This is pretty much the sentiment that made me make this thread. People breaking down carving technique like a bunch of damn ski racers. Lame as fuck.


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## 16gkid (Dec 5, 2012)

Heres one of my bad technique carves, hate away!


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## redlude97 (Jan 9, 2008)

16gkid said:


> Heres one of my bad technique carves, hate away!


man I'd be worried about dislocating your shoulder with that open arm more than anything :scared1:


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## 16gkid (Dec 5, 2012)

redlude97 said:


> man I'd be worried about dislocating your shoulder with that open arm more than anything :scared1:


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## Argo (Feb 25, 2010)

Ass out, knee down keeps your balls from dragging on a chunky groomer. 

Also great positioning for your lady late in a hot date.


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## Phedder (Sep 13, 2014)

redlude97 said:


> man I'd be worried about dislocating your shoulder with that open arm more than anything :scared1:


Been there, done that. It's all good, it just pops straight back in now...


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## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

well this looks fun


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## BoardieK (Dec 21, 2015)

Yeah, thanks... just 9 more months to go!!

One thing that stood out to me was how much speed the guys doing lay-down carves lost compared to the guy just dragging his hand.


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## zc1 (Feb 20, 2017)

wrathfuldeity said:


> well this looks fun


Really enjoyed watching that. Thanks for posting it. The transition hit at 2 mins and 13 s (click to jump to it) was nuts.


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## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

Thanks to @timmytard this winter I will be entering the wonderful wacky world of alpine/euro carving...picked up two old/retro stiff ass fully cambered sticks and some hardboot plate bindings.


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## BoardieK (Dec 21, 2015)

Don't fall asleep down there!


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## pomeranian (Mar 25, 2018)

wrathfuldeity said:


> well this looks fun


Sooooo sick. Good find!


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## Siphaeon (Oct 11, 2018)

I remember that eurocarving came somewhere 1990-1991 with Peter Bauer and Jean Nerva but I don't remember it ever going away.
Scream of Consciousness was the thing and we though were all freestyle riders with soft boots but still we practiced until we knew how to carve because, you know, it was cool. It's like basic skills of the sport.


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