# Yes Greats vs Never Summer Risaw 2016's?



## linvillegorge (Jul 6, 2009)

Do you want rocker/camber/rocker or rocker/camber/rocker?

Also, the Ripsaw is very stiff. Not sure it'd be the right choice for trying to branch out into more freestyle oriented riding.

The Proto or The West would probably be the better NS choice.


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## wren (Apr 1, 2015)

The big thing for me is that I have heard the Ripsaw has really great edge hold but have not heard much about edge hold regarding the Greats.

ps.I would love to get the NS West but it is not a twin.


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## SnowDogWax (Nov 8, 2013)

linvillegorge said:


> Do you want rocker/camber/rocker or rocker/camber/rocker?
> 
> Also, the Ripsaw is very stiff. Not sure it'd be the right choice for trying to branch out into more freestyle oriented riding.
> 
> The Proto or The West would probably be the better NS choice.


+ 1 Agree! IMO West would be the call...


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## linvillegorge (Jul 6, 2009)

wren said:


> The big thing for me is that I have heard the Ripsaw has really great edge hold but have not heard much about edge hold regarding the Greats.
> 
> ps.I would love to get the NS West but it is not a twin.


Do you really need a twin? 99% of people don't.


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## wren (Apr 1, 2015)

I am enforcing a twin on myself so there are no excuses.


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## SnowDogWax (Nov 8, 2013)

So from your statement "no excuses".. Riding switch seems to be your goal next season.


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## wren (Apr 1, 2015)

SnowDogWax said:


> So from your statement "no excuses".. Riding switch seems to be your goal next season.


goals:

1. More aggressive riding/bombing
2. Switch
3. Dable with freestyle


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## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

Greats. While both will be stable, the Greats with camrock will have a larger platform of ability being camber between the feet. Camrock also inherently grips more since your pseudo contact point at the camber/rocker blend zone also happens to be where you put the most pressure on the deck, at you're feet. The rocker outside will also lend to a little bit more playfulness and forgiveness without sacrificing stability since that comes from between your feet.

While stiffer, the Ripsaws camber is pretty damn similar to Camber Humps. So the grip characteristics will be similar, just with a stiffer deck.


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## timmytard (Mar 19, 2009)

I have always been against twin decks.

I ride switch lots, more than anyone I ride with.

Still, never wanted a twin. Plus I like taper & set back & I still ride switch fine.

I thibk you can design a board better to ride in one direction than you can by making it ride the same in both directions.

Bullets aren't twin & neither are a lot of other fast things.

Plus, I don't care how well you ride switch, but you're gonna spend more than half of your time riding in your natural position, so it makes sense to me to get a board that ride better in one direction.

Haha, now having said all that.


The Ripsaw, is the FIRST board I've ever ridden switch & actually got locked in & could dynamically carve.

I could dig trenches switch, haha, this was new to me & had me laughing out loud. It happened just by accident while I was fuckin' around, but when you feel it, you know what it is. 
Spent the next few hours with a huge shit eatin' grin on my face.:hairy:

I hate it when I'm wrong.


TT


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## wren (Apr 1, 2015)

Definitely peaking my interest in the greats! Angry snowboarder says it has solid edge hold.

I assume the ripsaw having more camber, vario grip and being stiffer will give more edge hold than the mild frostbite and mid flex of the camber hump custom? Also the tips are slightly lifted on the ripsaw where as the humps all touch the ground which would change the personality a bit? 


Honestly I have heard nothing but good things about the ripsaw so it's a tough call between the greats and the ripsaw.

Ps. I am stubbornly set on a twin


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## wren (Apr 1, 2015)

From what I've gathered Never Summer boards are built well and considered sturdy. 

But I came across someone saying they decamber and become lifeless after 30 days and that they are crap. 

Curious to hear other peoples experience/opinions?


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## timmytard (Mar 19, 2009)

Hahaha bwaha ha oh my god I'm fuckin' rolling around on the ground.

Haha oh sigh.........

Avron, do you have a retarded little brother?


TT


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## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

I'm of the decamber camp. They arent crap boards, I just think there is much better out there for your money.


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## wren (Apr 1, 2015)

Nivek said:


> I'm of the decamber camp. They arent crap boards, I just think there is much better or there for your money.


What do you mean that you are of the decamber camp?


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## BurtonAvenger (Aug 14, 2007)

timmytard said:


> Hahaha bwaha ha oh my god I'm fuckin' rolling around on the ground.
> 
> Haha oh sigh.........
> 
> ...


If you rode a board more than 5 days you'd realize that all NS boards decamber after 30 days Nigel.


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## linvillegorge (Jul 6, 2009)

30 days? Not a chance.

100? Yeah, an NS is starting to get pretty soft at that point, but hell any board ridden 100 hard days is starting to noodle up at that point.


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## wren (Apr 1, 2015)

I'm curious what NS boards people have been experiencing them going flat? Were they on the softer freestyle side or on the stiffer freeride side?


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

wren said:


> I'm curious what NS boards people have been experiencing them going flat? Were they on the softer freestyle side or on the stiffer freeride side?


I'm pretty sure they're on the who the fuck cares side.

Man... don't worry about this crap. Buy whichever board you like and worry about if it'll decamber or not after you have 75 days on it. By that time, you won't care.

That said.... i would get the Greats.


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## f00bar (Mar 6, 2014)

Sounds like we need a kickstarter for aftermarket camber refill kits.


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## BurtonAvenger (Aug 14, 2007)

wren said:


> I'm curious what NS boards people have been experiencing them going flat? Were they on the softer freestyle side or on the stiffer freeride side?


Name the model it will decamber. It's a mix of how it's built, material, the gallon of epoxy they use. A lot of American made boards do this. They go so soggy so fast.


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## linvillegorge (Jul 6, 2009)

F1EA said:


> I'm pretty sure they're on the who the fuck cares side.
> 
> Man... don't worry about this crap. Buy whichever board you like and worry about if it'll decamber or not after you have 75 days on it. By that time, you won't care.
> 
> That said.... i would get the Greats.


This. By the time you ride the camber out of any board you're probably gonna be bored with it and ready for something else.


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## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

Soggy in thirty to forty days is pretty awful when I've had boards stay lively for well over 100.


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## timmytard (Mar 19, 2009)

BurtonAvenger said:


> If you rode a board more than 5 days you'd realize that all NS boards decamber after 30 days Nigel.


I beg to differ on the NS's.

I rode the shit outa my 2011 Heritage X 156.
It wasn't soggy in the least


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## timmytard (Mar 19, 2009)

That has never been the problem with any of the NS boards ive had.
Possibly because I like a bigger burlier board than most?

Seems to be a ott of 200 plus pounders on 150's around here?

I'm not suckin' NS dick, while I do think they hold up that part of the build.

For some fuckin' reason, I've dented the rails on 4 of my NS's.
Nice big ones, the kind that leave a big bubble on the base.

None of my other boards have been dented like that.
Why only my NS'?

I had a RAD-AIR Tanker 172 it started out as a full camber deck
When I bought it, I wasn't sure if it was supposed to be full rocker?
Cause it was now
Never rode it.


TT


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## wren (Apr 1, 2015)

The impression I am getting is that the Ripsaw likes to just haul ass and can be worked into kicking it freestyle. While the Yes Greats kicks it freestyle and has a solid charging personality.


I am hoping I will luck out and demo them both in person and one of them will speak to me. 

Thought it would be interesting to hear peoples experience riding them and what they liked and disliked about each.


ps. I am thinking Now Pilot's for the chosen stick but havent heard much about em.


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## snowklinger (Aug 30, 2011)

I suggest that the level of hyperbole in the anti-NS talk rivals the level of credibility in the various "good wood" awards and other non-BA reviews.

Its so obvious that there is massive butthurt, it just ruins the whole discussion. 30 days bro? You haven't spent 30 days on an NS since you were creaming all over the first Proto and the shit hit the fan.

Sure I'm pro NS but so are alot of other people with good reason. At this point I just question the credibility of the whole process. 

Still a BA fan but cmon man get a grip of the situation, you don't have to love the boards but being false is something everyone sees which you should know as well as anyone.

I'm no fan of the Ripsaw.


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## BurtonAvenger (Aug 14, 2007)

snowklinger said:


> I suggest that the level of hyperbole in the anti-NS talk rivals the level of credibility in the various "good wood" awards and other non-BA reviews.
> 
> Its so obvious that there is massive butthurt, it just ruins the whole discussion. 30 days bro? You haven't spent 30 days on an NS since you were creaming all over the first Proto and the shit hit the fan.
> 
> ...


You really want to go into this? 

Every NS I have ever owned and believe me it's about 40 plus decks decambered horribly almost all of the last ones I had it was between 30 and 50 days. Always did. But because the vast majority and I mean like 90 plus percent of people reading online reviews ride less than 5 days a year it would take them YEARS to figure that out. Just about every American made board does the same. Most U.S. Factories are so far behind on tech advancements and materials it's horrible. Oh but China is EVIL. Dubai is EVIL. Austria is EVIL. Why? JOBS and bullshit Americana Bravado!

Why is there only one fucking U.S. manufacturer that does a clear UV coat that looks good? Because they fucking invested in new technology. 1 fucking factory out of 20 that I can name off the top of my head right now. There's realistically three fucking facilities in this country that I would consider solid factories that have the potential to build good products and one of those is an R&D facility that doesn't even make boards for the general public. 

Do you know the different between prepreg fiberglass and non prepreg? What about the fact that "Carbonium" has been around for 20 years. It's the same topsheet that's on rental equipment. I first encountered it in the late 90's. Shits indestructible but it's also dead and weighs a fuck ton. It's double to triple the weight of a glass or normal topsheet. How does a glass topsheet effect the snap of a board vs a standard topsheet? Can you even answer that? Can any of the other "Good Wood" or people reviewing tell you that difference off the top of their head? No because they're too busy not even saying the right tech to begin with!

Do you know what tip fill is? Why is there so much in a NS board? Fuck go take a skill saw and cut your boards tips off right at the start of the upkick. Look at that tip fill, in a time when EVERY OTHER FUCKING TOP 3 Tier brands and up is using full wood cores, why? Because it's cheaper! Yet you're paying a "premium" for their board. Premium what? Tech that's outdated? Fuck that! This is also one of the things that causes their boards to noodle out and lose its camber. 

When a board has a gallon of epoxy in it to wet the fiberglass vs using prepreg the ride completely changes. Yes is coming out of the most technologically advanced factory on earth right now. That is a FACT! The money that Soleco put into that factory is unrivaled, the next closest will be Capita with Mothership, but that doesn't have the money behind it that SWS has. China will create processes to knock it off or cut corners, but if you know what you're looking for you can see that their quality is secondary to SWS/Austrian made, but is still leaps and bounds above anything the U.S. can do. Then again I would rather ride a Chinese third than a U.S. first. Believe me I have, still better. 

Oh you want to talk about Good Wood. Cool lets talk about 27 testers that a vast majority of are fucking stupid. I can tell you who did last years test and name 4 riders I would trust for their insight from that, the rest are fucking brain dead. Let alone most were fueled by coke for 7 days. But yeah 2 laps on a board, please tell me how it rides. Oh and Good Ride. The guy is a blow hard douche bag that wants free gear. Board Insiders, I guarantee I could go make a fucking new snowboard company, send them a board, and say here keep it and that fucking thing would have a 95 or up "Shred Cred". All while using the same mold and lesser materials than other brands. 

Maybe if you rode more than 3 boards you would see the difference, but you don't. I've ridden thousands and I'm a dick about it because I"m sick of this broken ass industry being broken. I can either sit around and cry about it or I can get off my fucking ass and take the authority that is sitting there and lead the charge to change it. You don't have to like it and I don't give a fuck if you do. Bridges that are going no where are meant to be burned. 

NS needs to update how they build boards! That is a cold hard fact. They need newer materials, newer presses, and to change their old mindset of building a brand. Die cuts? Please, they have the ability to subliminate their eagle on the bottom. That's a lot less lines, less lines = less blow outs. Then again they should get rid of Crown Plastics and go to ISO it's just a better base material currently. Oh but AMERICA! Fuck it, I want the best at that price not some second rate plastic that based on the color will pull easier if I hit a rock. 

Do I think NS fucking sucks as a brand because of shit they've pulled? FUCK YES I DO! And I'm not even talking about with me, do I need to point out their racist Pro-American agenda at Battle of the Brands with Snowboarder Mag. A competition that was awesome for snowboarding culture, now it had to be abandoned because of them. Oh but you don't believe me? Fuck it don't care I actually work in snowboarding you just work in a restaurant so please tell me all about snowboarding I need a lesson. 

If I was paid in their false promises I'd be rich. But fuck that I moved on and stopped being a tool being used by them. They have made some fun boards, and made some money off ground work I helped them with, but that never stopped me even when helping them from saying "guys this could be better, this needs to be fixed" problem is when you give a bunch of people that have never had a freebie in their life free stuff they get afraid of biting the hand that feeds them. So feedback goes from honest to "yes sir" all the time. Then when you're the only one sitting there going "guys this is doing this, and this, oh and this" suddenly you look like the odd man out. So who do you listen to? You've grown as a company, you've gotten bigger, then what? You listen to those yes men and you get into that rut. 

So how do you keep things going? You keep throwing out handouts or freebies to people that can help your bottom line by influencer marketing. Why? Because there's always going to be people that want freebies which is why sites like Good Ride and Board Insiders or a slew of others I could name that you've never heard of are there. It's an endless cycle. 

And for the FUCKING record the Yes Great Dudes one of my top 10 all time decks. I would probably put it in top five because of the way it rides. 

But yeah I'm fake, see right through me. I guess I care WAY too much about snowboarding because unlike something you do on the weekend it's a way of life for me. If that makes me fake because I care more about the brand of snowboarding than any one brand kill me. At the end of the day I'll still be giving my honest no holds barred feedback and if that burns bridges, fuck it those bridges didn't matter. So what? Got something to say about that?


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## timmytard (Mar 19, 2009)

:blahblah::blahblah::blahblah::blahblah:



TT


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## BurtonAvenger (Aug 14, 2007)

timmytard said:


> :blahblah::blahblah::blahblah::blahblah:
> 
> 
> 
> TT


Why are you even here Nevel? Seriously you're a dumb fuck piece of shit free loading scam artist douche bag pile of shit. Kill yourself you fucking twat waffle. You contribute nothing, instigate fights, and are a blight. You provide nothing but a self righteous ego stroking for your stupidity. Seriously if society didn't have nanny laws to protect people like you, you would have died YEARS ago. Do the world a favor and just kill yourself.


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## snowklinger (Aug 30, 2011)

*sorry for the bait, I don't question your passion*

holy crap. I need a couple days cuz I recently de-learned how to read.

I like china and overseas product personally, so there is that, I could care less about the 'murica factor with NS. (I actually grew up realizing we are all in this together, the only thing borders are good for is wars, repression and police activity).

I appreciate all of the insider knowledge, you just aren't going to win anybody over with the butthurt. Seriously, I've been open to your info from day 1, and I hope you will appreciate the fact that I'm not a yes man for you or anybody else.

Sometimes you have to back up your shit talk[which you did](telling ppl their boards will decamber after 30 days doesn't count) . The technical info is pretty eye-opening, and regarding a few of the issues, I gotta wonder if they haven't actually adressed some just based on my own insight to the factory and model progression the last few years.

My last fully beat Proto did get noticeably mushy after day 80ish, so I'll admit there is a wear-out factor, but I destroyed that mafucka.

Snowboarding has some big problems... you think NS is one? Its just a little company among big ski corps. (also if they are so fucked how come ski companies bother with their factory?)

Also some interesting things going on with econmics and devaluation of the Yuan this week, wonder how it will affect our game.

Also I do not snowboard on the weekends except for the rare tour guiding I can't seem to avoid no matter how much I tell them I don't ride weekends. I do live and work in the metro though, so any shitty stereotype that applies will fit nicely.

Everything on the web carries a bit of extra cynicism and hyperbole, intended or otherwise, things are not always personal, but sometimes we own them as such ( I get the caveat that the AngrySnowboarder is personal, but it wouldnt exist without the conversation that is the internet, full of non-owners and other non-invested trolls).

*the extent of my relationship with NS is that I am a customer who occasionally borrows decks to review when I'm in the neighborhood.

Stay tuned to this thread for more Canadian Haiku by tt...


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## timmytard (Mar 19, 2009)

BurtonAvenger said:


> Why are you even here Nevel? Seriously you're a dumb fuck piece of shit free loading scam artist douche bag pile of shit. Kill yourself you fucking twat waffle. You contribute nothing, instigate fights, and are a blight. You provide nothing but a self righteous ego stroking for your stupidity. Seriously if society didn't have nanny laws to protect people like you, you would have died YEARS ago. Do the world a favor and just kill yourself.


See, that just proves you have no idea what you're talkin' about.
I'm famous for being trustworthy retard.

I have @ least 30 boards @ my house right now, that people have sent me money to grab for them, in blind faith.

Why? Because my record is 100% Every & all boards, always show up...

I very rarely pic fights, if ever.
I don't shy away from them though either.

You on the other hand, are constantly rude & an asshole..

I have something so incredibly awesome planned for you.
You're gonna hate it..

Don't shoot yourself in the head first though.
You'll wanna do that after.


TT


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## linvillegorge (Jul 6, 2009)




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## f00bar (Mar 6, 2014)

I'm still kind of amazed it's taken until the end of August to get a thread that's turned down this road. It's been a pretty chill summer.


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## snowklinger (Aug 30, 2011)

*bout this time every summer I gotta troll BA....*

Well there's some discussion with BA saying fuck, fiberglass and fill, and TT.(plus on point gifs by Lgeegee)

What can I say, we bring the summer heat.


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

snowklinger said:


> (plus on point gifs by Lgeegee)


Correct. 
I'm here for the gifs. Gotta admit, I'm a sucker for good gifs.


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## bksdds (Jul 2, 2015)

:hairy:


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## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

I'm just not about boards made using tech and techniques from the early 2000 or brands who claim to be super core in a certain geographical area yet don't actually do anything to promote local riders. Oh and that one camber profile is the one and only best for all riding styles.


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## SkullAndXbones (Feb 24, 2014)

well, after the argument that just unfolded i really don't have any advice to offer hahaha.


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## SkullAndXbones (Feb 24, 2014)

BurtonAvenger said:


> China will create processes to knock it off or cut corners, but if you know what you're looking for you can see that their quality is secondary to SWS/Austrian made, but is still leaps and bounds above anything the U.S. can do.


even though rome is an american company, my anthem was made in austria. what does that mean?


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## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

There is a difference between designed in the US and produced in the US.


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## mojo maestro (Jan 6, 2009)

OP's like.........WTF?........thought I was askin' a simple question.


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## f00bar (Mar 6, 2014)

mojo maestro said:


> OP's like.........WTF?........thought I was askin' a simple question.


One of my first posts had to do with Gnu and it turned into a Mervin free for all. And ya, I was like WTF is this?!


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## wren (Apr 1, 2015)

Honestly it would be sweet to hear about:


If you have ridden a Yes Greats and/or Never Summer Ripsaw? If so what did you like or dislike about it?


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## SGboarder (Jun 24, 2012)

wren said:


> Honestly it would be sweet to hear about:
> 
> 
> If you have ridden a Yes Greats and/or Never Summer Ripsaw? If so what did you like or dislike about it?


Can only comment on the Ripsaw (and compare it to my Cobra).

*Likes*:
- Damp and burly. Plows through and runs over anything without ever bucking or chattering.
- Super easy to carve. Not that it delivers more than the Cobra did, but the Ripsaw profile makes it so much easier to engage the camber sections. Basically it is great for people who do not want (or can’t) get the edge angles needed for the normal NS CRC. Longer sidecut than the Cobra probably also helped.
- Nice for big booters. Stable in the approach and stiffness can save many botched landings.


*Dislikes*:
- No float and useless in powder – but that is not what you should get a camber-ish twin for anyway.
- Stiff and not very playful, making it a bear for park and most freestyle - again not what the board is intended for.
- Suspect build quality. Finish was ok-ish, but no match for Burton, Ride, etc. Bigger concern is durability - my Cobra did not even make it to 30 days before the inserts started to pull out. At least I didn't have to worry about de-cambering that way…


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## wren (Apr 1, 2015)

Thanks that is very helpful!


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## BurtonAvenger (Aug 14, 2007)

snowklinger said:


> holy crap. I need a couple days cuz I recently de-learned how to read.
> 
> I like china and overseas product personally, so there is that, I could care less about the 'murica factor with NS. (I actually grew up realizing we are all in this together, the only thing borders are good for is wars, repression and police activity).
> 
> ...


Yay shitty Haiku's from a paranoid schizophrenic with bi-polar disorder who may also suffer from multiple personalities and delusions of grandeur. If only one of those Haiku's would end with a shotgun in the mouth going boom. 

Well I'm glad you understand the global economy. The whole Chinese economy right now and what's going on in there is having some interesting effects on production. You're seeing people that quit jobs after borrowing large sums of money to invest in the stock market get fucked. Those jobs from talking with people in various factories have now been filled by new people. I'm going to guess that some might have quality issues, while others might actually be better because the new people are so afraid of getting the shaft and having nothing like those that quit. I also foresee this causing a slight drop in manufacturing costs in favor for the U.S./Euro companies but that won't trickle down to the end consumer it will end up more so saving them some money and we might see either 1) New models 2) New Tech 3) Combination of both 4) Larger marketing push on certain items. Behind the scenes will be a bit different. 

I'm not sure everyone actually understands the shrinking pie of the snowsports industry. It's not as big as people think it's actually relatively small and getting smaller. The bigger issues with it are a result of the current state of companies regardless if they're some small brand or large ski company. They've created the state it's in but they all sit around and point fingers instead of taking a proactive approach to fix the situation. So fuck em. Sometimes you have to be the bad guy to get shit done. I have no problem with that. I would personally like to see a lot of the actually talented people in this industry succeed. 

I have tons of shitty stereotypes. I'll let you pick through my catalog some time. 

NS hasn't changed things. I can still walk in to a shop pull one of their boards off the shelf and it will still have all the issues I mentioned. Premium prices for less than premium product. Why? AMERICA! Which is why some ski companies come to them. The number they produce isn't as big as people think and they actually lost a bunch of their OEM because of their costs which ended up saving the other companies more money. Plus people are just dumb and or lazy and don't want to actually go through the process of finding a new factory. Trust me if you've ever had to email a Chinese factory you would understand the pain in the ass it is. Not fun. NOT FUN!

Just for reference take your hands and hold them up in front of you and have your thumbs outstretch and touch each other and stick your index fingers up so it looks like a field goal for a paper football. Look at the space between your fingers and thumbs. That is roughly the size of tip fill in each board built in the U.S. That's not just NS that's predominately 98% of all U.S. made boards. That tip fill has no properties to it that actually help the snowboard. Just think about that for one second. Personally, I can't stand that shit. 

Also there's designed in America and built in America. Two different things. You need someone that knows how to design your snowboard and snowboards to do that. You just need a factory worker to build it. 





timmytard said:


> See, that just proves you have no idea what you're talkin' about.
> I'm famous for being trustworthy retard.
> 
> I have @ least 30 boards @ my house right now, that people have sent me money to grab for them, in blind faith.
> ...


Plan away all you want. We know you're crazy, we know you won't do anything or more likely can't because you're a felon. So keep tossing out idle threats, no one really cares, most certainly myself. 

It's the Internet, stupid people have access to it and tend to trust other stupid people. Look at the people that believe the Holocaust didn't happen. 

Just because they trust you doesn't mean I do or ever will. You will always be a pile of shit scam artist do nothing. I'm waiting for round 2 of "I'm losing my house" to show up. 

So as previously stated suck the lead out of a shotgun, or wait can felons in Canada have guns? Well just remember go with traffic not against it when you cut yourself.


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## timmytard (Mar 19, 2009)

BurtonAvenger said:


> Yay shitty Haiku's from a paranoid schizophrenic with bi-polar disorder who may also suffer from multiple personalities and delusions of grandeur. If only one of those Haiku's would end with a shotgun in the mouth going boom.
> 
> Well I'm glad you understand the global economy. The whole Chinese economy right now and what's going on in there is having some interesting effects on production. You're seeing people that quit jobs after borrowing large sums of money to invest in the stock market get fucked. Those jobs from talking with people in various factories have now been filled by new people. I'm going to guess that some might have quality issues, while others might actually be better because the new people are so afraid of getting the shaft and having nothing like those that quit. I also foresee this causing a slight drop in manufacturing costs in favor for the U.S./Euro companies but that won't trickle down to the end consumer it will end up more so saving them some money and we might see either 1) New models 2) New Tech 3) Combination of both 4) Larger marketing push on certain items. Behind the scenes will be a bit different.
> 
> ...


Yeah, I'm crazy. haha.
How do you figure I won't do anything? haha Crazy guys do whatever the fuck they want, hi nice to meet chya:finger1:

Correct, I'm a felon:blahblah:

But you're not:hairy:

Haha, you're comin' to Canada fuck stick.

All expense paid, a little vacation for ya there superstar.

How can you say no to that?

You can't:hairy:

Unless you want to change your site to thepussybitchboarder.com.

Still lots more planning to do though.
I'm sooo excited:hairy::jumping1:

I can't wait to meet/beat ya.

Haha, good times, good times.


TT


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## linvillegorge (Jul 6, 2009)




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## powderjunkie (Jun 30, 2015)

oh my god winter needs to hurry up. I have never seen so much dick waiving and circle jerking in a forum. Summer would just not be complete without a BA anti-NS rant and an anti-BA, pro-NS rant from everyone.


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## The Chairman (Aug 17, 2009)

wren said:


> I am trying to decide between a Yes Greats or a Never Summer Ripsaw. I am intermediate-advanced riding on the east coast. I like to carve hard and go fast but am starting to branch out and try a bit of freestyle.
> 
> Current board is Burton Custom Restricted with camber humps and looking to get a more aggressive all mountain freestyle stick that is twin to improve switch riding and edge hold on icecoast as the Custom washes out and is directional.
> 
> I am currently leaning more towards the ripsaw but a few people have been saying the greats worth considering.


Hi Wren,

I don't know much about the Yes Greats, but have ridden many boards out of that factory, and have to say they make some fine boards.

The Ripsaw is an amazing board for hauling ass and carving. It's firm flex and enhanced camber areas directly under foot provide tremendous pressure for edge bite and stability. While still giving you a true twin for the freestyle mobility you're looking for.

Obviously, Burton Avenger has some sort of axe to grind with Never Summer? I didn't want to get into that here, just wanted to help you with your board selection. We also do a full free demo tour along the East Coast. Just check our calendar closer to the start of your season for dates in your neck of the woods. There you will be able to ride the Ripsaw and the West that linvillegorge mentioned. 
Never Summer Events Calendar


----------



## Phedder (Sep 13, 2014)

powderjunkie said:


> oh my god winter needs to hurry up. I have never seen so much dick waiving and circle jerking in a forum. Summer would just not be complete without a BA anti-NS rant and an anti-BA, pro-NS rant from everyone.


Maybe this will calm people down? Build up while on a coffee break. And plowing the lift line with a friend.


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## snowklinger (Aug 30, 2011)

Phedder said:


> Maybe this will calm people down? Build up while on a coffee break. And plowing the lift line with a friend.


wooooooo me likey


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## wren (Apr 1, 2015)

The Chairman said:


> Hi Wren,
> 
> I don't know much about the Yes Greats, but have ridden many boards out of that factory, and have to say they make some fine boards.
> 
> ...



I am really looking forward to trying the ripsaw out as it sounds like it might be what I am looking for!  

Do you know if there is a difference between the 15 and 16 model? I have seen one reviewer saying this years flex is more linear and another reviewer saying they are the same.


----------



## BurtonAvenger (Aug 14, 2007)

linvillegorge said:


>


Right there with you. 



timmytard said:


> Yeah, I'm crazy. haha.
> How do you figure I won't do anything? haha Crazy guys do whatever the fuck they want, hi nice to meet chya:finger1:
> 
> Correct, I'm a felon:blahblah:
> ...


Yay more Haiku's. 

A trail of threats will always be a trail of threats. 

I'll believe it when I see it. 





The Chairman said:


> Hi Wren,
> 
> I don't know much about the Yes Greats, but have ridden many boards out of that factory, and have to say they make some fine boards.
> 
> ...


You guys know how to make it right and how to apologize. It's on you, over having to feel I need to fix that bridge you torched, just going to keep calling it how I see it. Times changed, you guys didn't adapt. Sucks to suck.


----------



## powderjunkie (Jun 30, 2015)

Except they dont suck... people still buy and love their boards... telling someone that they suck only works if they actually suck and no one is buying their product.


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## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

powderjunkie said:


> Except they dont suck... people still buy and love their boards... telling someone that they suck only works if they actually suck and no one is buying their product.


Marketing is pretty powerful huh? Same reason the Mervin Skate Banana is the same board as a decade ago and no one notices. Add an unwillingness to admit buyers remorse with a $550 purchase and that most people ride 5 different boards on average in there whole life. Shit seems great if you have nothing to compare it to. Hot Pockets are great untill you have a real calzone.


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## powderjunkie (Jun 30, 2015)

seems to work for apple lol


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## linvillegorge (Jul 6, 2009)

As far as I'm concerned, give me Never Summer and Capita and the rest can just fall off the map.


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## larrytbull (Oct 30, 2013)

Nivek said:


> Marketing is pretty powerful huh? Same reason the Mervin Skate Banana is the same board as a decade ago and no one notices. Add an unwillingness to admit buyers remorse with a $550 purchase and that most people ride 5 different boards on average in there whole life. Shit seems great if you have nothing to compare it to. Hot Pockets are great untill you have a real calzone.


stuff not changing in a decade is ok, if it does what it is supposed to do.

to be fair the NS Ripsaw is a newer variation of their crc, which alot of folks on this board seem to like.

if you don't try it you can't make the decision yourself. ( Nivek I am sure you have ridden both, so not accusing you of making baseless statements)

as for $550 for a board... nope not happening for any board. never buy retail on anything. 

as for calzones, you haven't tasted calzones till you try some from north jersey/New York city. 

what you re eating in breck is more akin to a cardboard and ketchup grilled cheese sandwich :hairy:


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## d2cycles (Feb 24, 2013)

I have never been on a Yes Greats board but it was on my short list of new boards for 2015/16. 

I spent a day on a NS Ripsaw (I was very excited to ride it and predisposed to love the Ripsaw). I prefer boards that are playful. I found this board the opposite of that. It is very stiff and not playful. I enjoyed it some in the moguls, trees and steeps but I like to do lots of little 180s and 360s in mogul fields and I just had trouble with the Ripsaw. Given, my skill needs work but I seem to be able to do them with every other board I ride.

I think it is a great board for bombing, carving and riding hard. Not as much fun when you want to slow down and goof around.


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## linvillegorge (Jul 6, 2009)

d2cycles said:


> I have never been on a Yes Greats board but it was on my short list of new boards for 2015/16.
> 
> I spent a day on a NS Ripsaw (I was very excited to ride it and predisposed to love the Ripsaw). I prefer boards that are playful. I found this board the opposite of that. It is very stiff and not playful. I enjoyed it some in the moguls, trees and steeps but I like to do lots of little 180s and 360s in mogul fields and I just had trouble with the Ripsaw. Given, my skill needs work but I seem to be able to do them with every other board I ride.
> 
> I think it is a great board for bombing, carving and riding hard. Not as much fun when you want to slow down and goof around.


I wouldn't disagree with any of that. 

The original Ripsaw I rode was stiff as hell. It had great edge hold and could absolutely slay, but my feedback was that they essentially made a board for a high level pro. I could see a Travis Rice loving that board, but given that it was a true twin, it just seemed like more board than 99.9% of true twin riders want. They softened up the tips a little from that one and it's definitely a bit more forgiving now and can actually be buttered around a little bit. You still better be a damn strong rider to get your freestyle on when riding the Ripsaw.

It's definitely made for the hard charging guy who still wants a true twin. It's very unlike the majority of true twins on the market.


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## wren (Apr 1, 2015)

What I am really curious about is how does the Yes Greats have such solid edge hold even though it has a normal radial sidecut? 

My Burton Custom has standard frostbite bumps and holds generally well until harder snow or ice shows up...then it washes out like its in style.


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

wren said:


> What I am really curious about is how does the Yes Greats have such solid edge hold even though it has a normal radial sidecut?
> 
> My Burton Custom has standard frostbite bumps and holds generally well until harder snow or ice shows up...then it washes out like its in style.


The Greats has an asymmetrical sidecut, and camber.


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## wren (Apr 1, 2015)

Even Burton's full camber boards wash out from what I hear. (Except the CustomX)


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## linvillegorge (Jul 6, 2009)

When on ice, nothing is going to have flawless edge hold.

They're snowboards, not iceboards.


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## The Chairman (Aug 17, 2009)

wren said:


> I am really looking forward to trying the ripsaw out as it sounds like it might be what I am looking for!
> 
> Do you know if there is a difference between the 15 and 16 model? I have seen one reviewer saying this years flex is more linear and another reviewer saying they are the same.


Sounds good. I really think the Ripsaw is just the board you're looking for. Look forward to seeing your thoughts here on the forum after you ride it.

There are no significant changes in the Ripsaw. We didn't want to lose the aggressive nature of the board. We do have a new core profile that is utilized on the Ripsaw, Chairman and some of the new models. It's slightly thinner in tips to create a more linear or consistent flex pattern down the board. This also enhanced the performance by making the boards feel lighter under foot and more agile/streamlined. The meat of the board is the same. The Ripsaw is designed to be a more firm, solid and stable true twin. We have the other new boards (Funslinger, West) with the same profile to offer some models with a softer flex.


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## powderjunkie (Jun 30, 2015)

The Chairman said:


> Sounds good. I really think the Ripsaw is just the board you're looking for. Look forward to seeing your thoughts here on the forum after you ride it.
> 
> There are no significant changes in the Ripsaw. We didn't want to lose the aggressive nature of the board. We do have a new core profile that is utilized on the Ripsaw, Chairman and some of the new models. It's slightly thinner in tips to create a more linear or consistent flex pattern down the board. This also enhanced the performance by making the boards feel lighter under foot and more agile/streamlined. The meat of the board is the same. The Ripsaw is designed to be a more firm, solid and stable true twin. We have the other new boards (Funslinger, West) with the same profile to offer some models with a softer flex.


Isnt the Funslinger also asymetrical?


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## linvillegorge (Jul 6, 2009)

powderjunkie said:


> Isnt the Funslinger also asymetrical?


Yep. Doesn't sound like what he's looking for though. Funslinger is pretty doggone soft. Not really meant for hard charging.


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## wren (Apr 1, 2015)

linvillegorge said:


> When on ice, nothing is going to have flawless edge hold.
> 
> They're snowboards, not iceboards.


You are right they will all wash out on ice... 

But there are degrees of how much a board washes. 

From what I gathered Burton boards are "happy medium" good snow grip and just slide the fack out. 

NS, Arbor have a solid but smooth grip in the "snowment". 

Then for having something more tangible on ice you need a stiff board with exagerated wavy shit on the side.



(That is my crappy understanding in haiku format and I understand that the camber style, stiffness and sidecut affect it all greatly. But still don't understand how the Greats has such grip)


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## wren (Apr 1, 2015)

The Chairman said:


> Sounds good. I really think the Ripsaw is just the board you're looking for. Look forward to seeing your thoughts here on the forum after you ride it.
> 
> There are no significant changes in the Ripsaw. We didn't want to lose the aggressive nature of the board. We do have a new core profile that is utilized on the Ripsaw, Chairman and some of the new models. It's slightly thinner in tips to create a more linear or consistent flex pattern down the board. This also enhanced the performance by making the boards feel lighter under foot and more agile/streamlined. The meat of the board is the same. The Ripsaw is designed to be a more firm, solid and stable true twin. We have the other new boards (Funslinger, West) with the same profile to offer some models with a softer flex.



Great to hear! See you in the neighbourhood and thanks for the info.


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

wren said:


> Even Burton's full camber boards wash out from what I hear. (Except the CustomX)


From what you hear?

How about you go ride, then come back with statements from what you KNOW.


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## wren (Apr 1, 2015)

F1EA said:


> From what you hear?
> 
> How about you go ride, then come back with statements from what you KNOW.




umm... My Burton Custom Restricted which is slightly stiffer than a default Custom holds really well and smoothly even on hard snow. Once it gets harder approaching ice it just washes. Since I have not been fortunate enough to play with other boards I used these things called reading and talking to see what other peoples experiences are and found out that I am not the only one and even the full camber Burton boards are washy. Except for the Custom X. If you or anyone knows why and can explain it so I can understand it and how it relates to the Yes Greats having such simple but wonderful grip that would be awesome.


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## linvillegorge (Jul 6, 2009)

wren said:


> umm... My Burton Custom Restricted which is slightly stiffer than a default Custom holds really well and smoothly even on hard snow. Once it gets harder approaching ice it just washes. Since I have not been fortunate enough to play with other boards I used these things called reading and talking to see what other peoples experiences are and found out that I am not the only one and even the full camber Burton boards are washy. Except for the Custom X. *If you or anyone knows why and can explain it so I can understand it *and how it relates to the Yes Greats having such simple but wonderful grip that would be awesome.


Because ice is slick. :happy:

The thing you have to understand with camrock, especially back east, is that it tends to grip quite a bit differently than a lot of other camber profiles. Virtually all of your grip comes from the cambered section between the bindings. The rockered tips provide virtually no additional grip on hard pack. Full camber or rocker camber with cambered tips will provide grip along the entire edge.

I own a camrock board and I like here in CO where our snow quality is almost always at least decent, but I'm not sure how it would do back east on legit ice.


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## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

Most people nowadays never learned edge control. Rocker has been around to long. Without edge control even a BX board will still lose grip on ice. With good edge control you can get just about any well designed deck to maintain control even on ice coast blue.

Starting a carve on camrock you do use pretty much only the camber section, once into a full carve though you are using the whole effective edge. RC can use it all the whole time, but only if you stay centered. The second too much weight gets onto one foot, the other end of the board disengages. Camrock doesn't have that problem.

Ideally if you want the most grip you want camber 2.0. Camber from the contact points to your feet, and a lifted level flat zone between the feet. You get maximum edge engagement between the feet without having to fight the camber, and you have the full camber bought outside the feet.


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## foobaz (Jan 28, 2015)

The Chairman said:


> Obviously, Burton Avenger has some sort of axe to grind with Never Summer? I didn't want to get into that here


Actually, you should. 
Between the hyperbole, the invectives and the childish lack of control over one's emotions, there are some really specific accusations and I for one, as someone who's just recently bought a 2015 Ripsaw, am very interested in your responses.



BurtonAvenger said:


> Every NS I have ever owned and believe me it's about 40 plus decks decambered horribly almost all of the last ones I had it was between 30 and 50 days. Always did.





Nivek said:


> Soggy in thirty to forty days is pretty awful when I've had boards stay lively for well over 100.


Comment ?



BurtonAvenger said:


> Why is there only one fucking U.S. manufacturer that does a clear UV coat that looks good?


Is NS not interested in that tech ?



BurtonAvenger said:


> What about the fact that "Carbonium" has been around for 20 years. It's the same topsheet that's on rental equipment. I first encountered it in the late 90's. Shits indestructible but it's also dead and weighs a fuck ton. It's double to triple the weight of a glass or normal topsheet.


Comment ?



BurtonAvenger said:


> Do you know what tip fill is? Why is there so much in a NS board? Fuck go take a skill saw and cut your boards tips off right at the start of the upkick. Look at that tip fill, in a time when EVERY OTHER FUCKING TOP 3 Tier brands and up is using full wood cores, why? [...] When a board has a gallon of epoxy in it to wet the fiberglass vs using prepreg the ride completely changes.





BurtonAvenger said:


> Just for reference take your hands and hold them up in front of you and have your thumbs outstretch and touch each other and stick your index fingers up so it looks like a field goal for a paper football. Look at the space between your fingers and thumbs. That is roughly the size of tip fill in each board built in the U.S. That's not just NS that's predominately 98% of all U.S. made boards. That tip fill has no properties to it that actually help the snowboard.


Comment ?



BurtonAvenger said:


> [...] they should get rid of Crown Plastics and go to ISO it's just a better base material currently. [...] I want the best at that price not some second rate plastic that based on the color will pull easier if I hit a rock.


Comment ?

@The Chairman - if you were not on that board (let alone in this thread), or didn't speak about NS using the word "us", it would be ok for you to just ignore all of the above. No obligations. But since you're here, I don't think you can pretend this has never been said, without giving some credibility to the accusations and causing some people to rethink their choice of NS for their new board. New customers aside, I'm a current customer and very curious to hear what you have to say.


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

foobaz said:


> ...Between the hyperbole, the invectives and the childish lack of control over one's emotions, ...





I like/agree with what Nivek said. Rocker Camber you do feel the longer 'edge' but when you distribute yourself tip-tail you definitely loose some grip.

RCR you generally feel a bit less edge... but it is more 'constant' and definitely more stable because of it (because even if you get bumped around your edge hold is sort of unnafected).


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## foobaz (Jan 28, 2015)

BurtonAvenger said:


> Oh and Good Ride. The guy is a blow hard douche bag that wants free gear.


Based on what ?



BurtonAvenger said:


> Every NS I have ever owned and believe me it's about 40 plus decks decambered horribly almost all of the last ones I had it was between 30 and 50 days. Always did.


Well, let's do the math on this.
To figure out the 30-50 day range, you'd have to ride each board at least 30-50 days and there's been >40 of them and they've ALL had the time to decamber. Let's say you ride a lot and do 150 days a year. (40*(30+50)/2)/150 = 10.(6). That's >10 seasons riding nothing but NS boards all day, every day, or >20 seasons riding NS every second day, or >30 seasons riding NS every third day... Is that what you're claiming ?



BurtonAvenger said:


> I've ridden thousands and I'm a dick


Well, no and yes...

Actually that should read "kid", instead of "dick". Typo ? The letters fit, exetp for the "c"...


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## SkullAndXbones (Feb 24, 2014)

"hyperbole", "invectives", "math"?

take your college education elsewhere. it has no place here.


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## foobaz (Jan 28, 2015)

F1EA said:


> I like/agree with what Nivek said. Rocker Camber you do feel the longer 'edge' but when you distribute yourself tip-tail you definitely loose some grip.
> 
> RCR you generally feel a bit less edge... but it is more 'constant' and definitely more stable because of it (because even if you get bumped around your edge hold is sort of unnafected).


I've been reading about snowboarding gear since the last season and I'm still never sure which profile people are refering to, when using terms like "camrock", "crc", "rcr", "rocker camber", etc. I guess the multitude of similar sounding trademarks registered by all the manufacturers are to blame for this mess :/ I keep hearing people use the same names to mean different things... Hell, some people try to be more descriptive and still get it wrong, saying for instance "camber between the feet", when I know that the board they're referring to has camber under the feet, with rocker between them... 

I don't know, either this is the mess I think it is, or I'm just slow getting it :\


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## larrytbull (Oct 30, 2013)

foobaz said:


> I've been reading about snowboarding gear since the last season and I'm still never sure which profile people are refering to, when using terms like "camrock", "crc", "rcr", "rocker camber", etc. I guess the multitude of similar sounding trademarks registered by all the manufacturers are to blame for this mess :/ I keep hearing people use the same names to mean different things... Hell, some people try to be more descriptive and still get it wrong, saying for instance "camber between the feet", when I know that the board they're referring to has camber under the feet, with rocker between them...
> 
> I don't know, either this is the mess I think it is, or I'm just slow getting it :\


start here
http://www.snowboardingforum.com/boards/37496-rocker-camber-everything-between.html

perhaps pay closer attention to the pictures
to have it make more sense


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

foobaz said:


> I've been reading about snowboarding gear since the last season and I'm still never sure which profile people are refering to, when using terms like "camrock", "crc", "rcr", "rocker camber", etc. I guess the multitude of similar sounding trademarks registered by all the manufacturers are to blame for this mess :/ I keep hearing people use the same names to mean different things... Hell, some people try to be more descriptive and still get it wrong, saying for instance "camber between the feet", when I know that the board they're referring to has camber under the feet, with rocker between them...
> 
> I don't know, either this is the mess I think it is, or I'm just slow getting it :\


Camrock = RCR
Rocker Camber = CRC.


Manufacturers just call "their" profile a name so they can patent it...... but it's all the same thing. It's all any combination of Camber, Rocker or neither (ie Flat).


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## SkullAndXbones (Feb 24, 2014)

foobaz said:


> I've been reading about snowboarding gear since the last season and I'm still never sure which profile people are refering to, when using terms like "camrock", "crc", "rcr", "rocker camber", etc. I guess the multitude of similar sounding trademarks registered by all the manufacturers are to blame for this mess :/ I keep hearing people use the same names to mean different things... Hell, some people try to be more descriptive and still get it wrong, saying for instance "camber between the feet", when I know that the board they're referring to has camber under the feet, with rocker between them...
> 
> I don't know, either this is the mess I think it is, or I'm just slow getting it :\


well, i think people say "crc" and "rcr" to just give a universal name to those 2 types of hybrid camber profiles because like you said, every company has their own names for their hybrids even though they have the same profile. i suppose there could be minor tweaks in the profile/construction that gives them a reason for giving it a different name but to keep it simple people just say "crc" and "rcr".


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## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

foobaz said:


> The Chairman said:
> 
> 
> > Obviously, Burton Avenger has some sort of axe to grind with Never Summer? I didn't want to get into that here
> ...


All of this. Defend your product.


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## SGboarder (Jun 24, 2012)

wren said:


> Even Burton's full camber boards wash out from what I hear. (Except the CustomX)





wren said:


> You are right they will all wash out on ice...
> 
> But there are degrees of how much a board washes.
> 
> ...


I am sorry, but what kind of drivel is that? Where do you "gather" that Burton camber boards other wash out? And why would the Custom X be fundamentally different?
I have ridden plenty of Burton boards (camber and other) and the edge hold is perfectly fine.

Some sort of edge tech helps with edge hold (Magnetraction more than the others, but also Griptech, QuickRip, Over/Underbite, Vario or whatever other names manufacturers come up with for a bumpy edge), but so do good technique, camber, and a sharp edge.


----------



## SGboarder (Jun 24, 2012)

linvillegorge said:


> Because ice is slick. :happy:
> 
> The thing you have to understand with camrock, especially back east, is that it tends to grip quite a bit differently than a lot of other camber profiles. Virtually all of your grip comes from the cambered section between the bindings. The rockered tips provide virtually no additional grip on hard pack. Full camber or rocker camber with cambered tips will provide grip along the entire edge.
> 
> I own a camrock board and I like here in CO where our snow quality is almost always at least decent, but I'm not sure how it would do back east on legit ice.





Nivek said:


> Most people nowadays never learned edge control. Rocker has been around to long. Without edge control even a BX board will still lose grip on ice. With good edge control you can get just about any well designed deck to maintain control even on ice coast blue.
> 
> Starting a carve on camrock you do use pretty much only the camber section, once into a full carve though you are using the whole effective edge. RC can use it all the whole time, but only if you stay centered. The second too much weight gets onto one foot, the other end of the board disengages. Camrock doesn't have that problem.
> 
> Ideally if you want the most grip you want camber 2.0. Camber from the contact points to your feet, and a lifted level flat zone between the feet. You get maximum edge engagement between the feet without having to fight the camber, and you have the full camber bought outside the feet.


Those are very good explanations of RCR (especially the comparison with CRC).


----------



## ekb18c (Mar 11, 2013)

I personally feel that RCR handles the Ice coast much better than CRC boards. I don't think I will ever buy another CRC board ever again.

My go to board is the Yes Asym, which is essentially same as the Greats.


----------



## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

SkullAndXbones said:


> "hyperbole", "invectives", "math"?
> 
> take your college education elsewhere. it has no place here.


:rotfl: :rotfl:


----------



## foobaz (Jan 28, 2015)

so 
cr = crc = rocker camber = hybrid rocker = camber under feet, rocker between
and
rc = rcr = camrock = hybrid camber = rocker under feet, camber between ?

Then why the HELL would they call the, clearly crc, ripsaw profile "Ripsaw Camber Rocker (CR)" ? Unless... Either camber rocker is the same thing as rocker camber, which makes no sense, or camber rocker is not the same thing as camrock, which makes no sense.

See what I mean ?


----------



## linvillegorge (Jul 6, 2009)

foobaz said:


> so
> cr = crc = rocker camber = hybrid rocker = camber under feet, rocker between
> and
> rc = rcr = camrock = hybrid camber = rocker under feet, camber between ?
> ...


It's all marketing and product positioning. Ignore the marketing jive and look at the specs. The Ripsaw version of the CRC camber is simply more aggressive cambered sections in the tips. It's the same general profile, just a more aggressive version.

If you REALLY wanna confuse yourself, just go look at all the different camber profiles Mervin offers CB this, CBX that, throw in some numbers here and there. Your head will be spinning quickly.


----------



## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

foobaz said:


> so
> cr = crc = rocker camber = hybrid rocker = camber under feet, rocker between
> and
> rc = rcr = camrock = hybrid camber = rocker under feet, camber between ?
> ...


Rocker Camber is just NS's trade marked hybrid camber profile. It is CRC.
The ripsaw camber is the same CRC, but with more/longer camber sections.

Flying V is RCRCR.... just rocker, then camber then more rocker then more camber......

I have a Forum with Chillydog camber hahaha. That's just Rocker.

Basically....... dont worry about anything with either a "TM" or (c) after it. Shit's got either camber, rocker or its flat.


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## foobaz (Jan 28, 2015)

F1EA said:


> Rocker Camber is just NS's trade marked hybrid camber profile. It is CRC.


Haha. Hybrid camber is not CRC.


----------



## linvillegorge (Jul 6, 2009)

foobaz said:


> Haha. Hybrid camber is not CRC.


"Hybrid camber" is a very generic term. Many of us refer to virtually anything that isn't straight regular camber, straight reverse camber, or zero (flat) camber as a "hybrid camber".

Why? Well, that's because that's exactly what it is. Whether it's CRC, RCR, or some other crazy combination, it's a hybrid camber.

Per the Merriam-Webster dictionary, "hybrid" is defined as: _something that is formed by combining two or more things_

I think you're just getting too caught up in marketing jargon and making this a lot harder to understand than it needs to be.


----------



## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

foobaz said:


> Haha. Hybrid camber is not CRC.


Correct. But CRC is hybrid camber, which is what I said.


----------



## Bertieman (Jan 19, 2014)

What do you classify C3 as? I've heard its mellow camber (as the arc doesn't touch the ground like rocker would). But they sell it as bananna camber.


----------



## bksdds (Jul 2, 2015)

Think the OP will actually go with the poll results?

If so, I wonder when they will decide.


----------



## timmytard (Mar 19, 2009)

SkullAndXbones said:


> "hyperbole", "invectives", "math"?
> 
> take your college education elsewhere. it has no place here.


That was awesome, haha. No kidding eh

Like what the fuck, I had to google all 3 of those words. haha


TT


----------



## timmytard (Mar 19, 2009)

Bertieman said:


> What do you classify C3 as? I've heard its mellow camber (as the arc doesn't touch the ground like rocker would). But they sell it as bananna camber.


that is what Lib has coined "Submissive rocker, dominant camber"

Then they have a little silhouette of some dude on his hands & knees, with some dom chic with a whip or something like that in her hand.

Fuckin' brilliant I tellz ya:jumping1:


As far as the ride goes, kinda felt like a mushy camber
I don't know? You couldn't really feel the camber or the rocker.
More of one, less of the other. 
There wasn't enough of either I thought.
Wasn't horrible, but didn't wow me really.

I tried the Dark Knife, did 2 runs on it.
Traded it in fopr somethin' else.

TT


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## SkullAndXbones (Feb 24, 2014)

timmytard said:


> That was awesome, haha. No kidding eh
> 
> Like what the fuck, I had to google all 3 of those words. haha
> 
> ...


haha. i ain't gonna lie, i was particularly proud of that one lol


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## Seppuccu (Dec 4, 2012)

I read the title, saw the number of posts, and immediately knew this thread was going to be awesome.


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## Mystery2many (Aug 14, 2013)

wren said:


> Even Burton's full camber boards wash out from what I hear. (Except the CustomX)





wren said:


> You are right they will all wash out on ice...
> 
> But there are degrees of how much a board washes.
> 
> ...


First off what you're missing isn't a board with good edge hold, you're missing good technique. If you have good technique, any board with some kind of camber and contact points can be ridden efficiently on east coast ice. Magnatraction is good for people who like to slow down when they carve and need that extra grip on ice due to lack of skill. On ice, you can't beat a full cambered board with good technique. It'll hold good while slicing like a knife and help you gain speed. If you really want results, learn edge control. 

I like both rcr and crc. They both have their pros and cons. But the cons are really not a big deal if you are a decent snowboarder. They both are playful. So it comes down to personal preference. 

The best way to know what you like is to demo, or borrow. Ride as many different boards as possible to get a good understanding of how they ride and what you ultimately like the most. 

And again. Learning good edge control and technique is the most valuable thing you can do, rather than make up for it with board tech. If you're having trouble with it, take an advance private lesson with a reputable instructor and work specifically on edge control and carving. If you're washing out on a cambered custom you have some weight distribution and posture issues most likely.


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

Anticrobotic said:


> I read the title, saw the number of posts, and immediately knew this thread was going to be awesome.


"Any publicity is good publicity"


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## mkbr (Sep 6, 2014)

Anticrobotic said:


> I read the title, saw the number of posts, and immediately knew this thread was going to be awesome.




same here!


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## snowklinger (Aug 30, 2011)

We are just trying to get you guys over the leghumping dog days of summer.

The mountains are cooling off!


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## Mystery2many (Aug 14, 2013)

We need more TT/BA/NS fuel for this fire!!!!


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## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

I think hearing NS respond to Foobaz's call-out from a few pages back would be way more interesting.


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## powderjunkie (Jun 30, 2015)

Why the hell would NS want to respond? You have nothing to gain by responding to one guy bent out of shape on an anonymous snowboard forum. You aren't going to convince the one angry dude to like your snowboards, and you could possibly come out of the whole thing with a black eye yourself. Why fight a fight that you have nothing to gain and a whole lot to lose?


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## mojo maestro (Jan 6, 2009)

F1EA said:


> "Any publicity is good publicity"


I don't think Bill Cosby would agree..........


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## ekb18c (Mar 11, 2013)

powderjunkie said:


> Why the hell would NS want to respond? You have nothing to gain by responding to one guy bent out of shape on an anonymous snowboard forum. You aren't going to convince the one angry dude to like your snowboards, and you could possibly come out of the whole thing with a black eye yourself. Why fight a fight that you have nothing to gain and a whole lot to lose?


Well that one dude isn't anonymous and has a following. Could his post influence people on not to buy NS? Absolutely. He's got nothing to lose so might as well tell the truth.

I'm assuming you are talking about BA.


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## ekb18c (Mar 11, 2013)

mojo maestro said:


> I don't think Bill Cosby would agree..........



I don't think the folks on the Ashley Madison database would agree either.


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## timmytard (Mar 19, 2009)

Nivek said:


> I think hearing NS respond to Foobaz's call-out from a few pages back would be way more interesting.


Really, haha, not a fuckin' chance.

I got the most fucked up plan in the works.
As fucked up as it may be?
Pretty sure, everyone is gonna love it. Er, 99% of you are gonna love it.:hairy:


TT


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

ekb18c said:


> I don't think the folks on the Ashley Madison database would agree either.


hahahaha

Well, this publicity/market stunt seems to have backfired too


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## snowklinger (Aug 30, 2011)

timmytard said:


> Really, haha, not a fuckin' chance.
> 
> I got the most fucked up plan in the works.
> As fucked up as it may be?
> ...


you may need to go ahead and give yourself a time out soon


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## foobaz (Jan 28, 2015)

Nivek said:


> I think hearing NS respond to Foobaz's call-out from a few pages back would be way more interesting.


Yeah, I'm still hoping to get a reply...
Just the facts, noone is expecting The Chairman to participate in a flamewar.

Here's the link to the questions:
http://www.snowboardingforum.com/boards/181921-yes-greats-vs-never-summer-risaw-8.html#post2353025


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## wren (Apr 1, 2015)

Hopefully I can demo both boards this season to make a better choice...

However after looking at the specs and talking to some people it seems like I might be sized out of a Ripsaw. The 153 is a little narrow for my feet and worry about over hang and I don't think I am man enough to ride a 156 weighing only 145 lbs. 

I guess I'll have to see how it goes.


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## powderjunkie (Jun 30, 2015)

foobaz said:


> Yeah, I'm still hoping to get a reply...
> Just the facts, noone is expecting The Chairman to participate in a flamewar.
> 
> Here's the link to the questions:
> http://www.snowboardingforum.com/boards/181921-yes-greats-vs-never-summer-risaw-8.html#post2353025


Except they always end in flame wars. Now i am not saying that what BA is saying is totally wack or off base. But, there comes a point where criticism is no longer helping anyone else and just comes off as prepubescent temper tantrums. I mean Mervin is just as ridiculous with their branding, pricing, and materials but I dont see anyone walking into Mervin threads and calling them out for being "crappy products". But then again... I guess he isnt AngrySnowboarder for nothing. It's just strange that NS managed to stick in his craw more than any of the other snowboard brands.


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## linvillegorge (Jul 6, 2009)

powderjunkie said:


> Except they always end in flame wars. Now i am not saying that what BA is saying is totally wack or off base. But, there comes a point where criticism is no longer helping anyone else and just comes off as prepubescent temper tantrums. I mean Mervin is just as ridiculous with their branding, pricing, and materials but I dont see anyone walking into Mervin threads and calling them out for being "crappy products". But then again... I guess he isnt AngrySnowboarder for nothing. It's just strange that NS managed to stick in his craw more than any of the other snowboard brands.


Pretty much this. I respect BA's knowledge of the industry, but it's pretty clear that he has a major bone to pick with NS and that forces you to take a lot of what he says about them and their boards with a grain of salt.


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## foobaz (Jan 28, 2015)

powderjunkie said:


> Except they always end in flame wars. Now i am not saying that what BA is saying is totally wack or off base. But, there comes a point where criticism is no longer helping anyone else and just comes off as prepubescent temper tantrums.


That's why I extracted the specific questions, so they can be answered without having to cut through the noise.

I don't care about the whole drama, I'm interested in what someone representing NS would have to say about the problems BA pointed out.


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## BurtonAvenger (Aug 14, 2007)

I probably shouldn't be writing responses when I haven't slept in 2 days, traveled 1,800 miles, and just finished writing a eulogy. But not making any excuses, have a ton of passion for snowboarding and it's a lifestyle to me. 



foobaz said:


> Originally Posted by BurtonAvenger View Post
> Oh and Good Ride. The guy is a blow hard douche bag that wants free gear.
> Based on what ?


Besides having to interact with him? Friends of mine that work for companies always talk about how much of a blow hard he is and how much he asks for. Hell I've been there when he's called to get gear, fucking interesting conversations there. 

You want to trust him, go for it. Authority is there for the taking and he's trying to take it. Some of us know how to question it though. 




foobaz said:


> Originally Posted by BurtonAvenger View Post
> Every NS I have ever owned and believe me it's about 40 plus decks decambered horribly almost all of the last ones I had it was between 30 and 50 days. Always did.
> 
> Well, let's do the math on this.
> To figure out the 30-50 day range, you'd have to ride each board at least 30-50 days and there's been >40 of them and they've ALL had the time to decamber. Let's say you ride a lot and do 150 days a year. (40*(30+50)/2)/150 = 10.(6). That's >10 seasons riding nothing but NS boards all day, every day, or >20 seasons riding NS every second day, or >30 seasons riding NS every third day... Is that what you're claiming ?


You're really going to go into math on this. For the record my season day average is about 200 per not counting summer riding days. 

Now I understand you bought a Ripsaw and you don't want to have buyers remorse. But do me a favor, measure the camber height of both the front and back camber zone as the board is new. Measure it again at 15, 30, 45,60, days etc. Keep track of its decline. 

The softer models always decambered under the back camber zone the fastest. So you get this weird flat, reverse, camber, thing going on with the profile. If they were stiffer they lasted longer. But all their boards wore down faster than anything else I owned/rode. But I always took into account that most people buying one of their boards would own that for 3 years minimum, are casual riders that wouldn't notice anything, and probably rode less than 15 days a season. Just the real facts of snowboarding participation by the people that are the bread and butter of it. 

One year I think I got 22 boards from them. Some were overlaps of the same models, while some were just different core profiles. So you go out test three boards a day over a full day comparing different flex patterns or what have you. Then when you're done you either give them back or if they won't take them give them to friends and see what happens to the boards. Some were prototypes and some were production. The production stuff always seemed to be a little better except on a few models. 

I will say the only board from them that never decambered in the slightest was the Titan. That fucking thing was a brick shit house and even after wrapping it around a tree it was still prime. 

It's like when they started playing with Paulownia wood under the insert packs. Only bases I dented. The wood was too soft and would dent from landing on rails or impacting hard on a tree root. Strangely was told I was the only one having that issue. Then again one of the guys at that they that wanted feedback from at that time was riding less than 10 days a year, stiff legged, exaggerated upper body movements. Not exactly someone you want to test a product. Dude couldn't ride and pretty sure in the years since then he hasn't even gotten 100 days on snow. 



foobaz said:


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by BurtonAvenger View Post
> I've ridden thousands and I'm a dick
> Well, no and yes...
> ...


Dicks, pussies, and assholes. Pussies get fucked, Assholes shit on things and sometimes get fucked, but Dicks always do the fucking. Having passion for something beyond others isn't a bad thing, if you have a problem with that it sucks to suck. I make no apologies for being honest, makes my life easier even if it burns bridges. 



foobaz said:


> I've been reading about snowboarding gear since the last season and I'm still never sure which profile people are refering to, when using terms like "camrock", "crc", "rcr", "rocker camber", etc. I guess the multitude of similar sounding trademarks registered by all the manufacturers are to blame for this mess :/ I keep hearing people use the same names to mean different things... Hell, some people try to be more descriptive and still get it wrong, saying for instance "camber between the feet", when I know that the board they're referring to has camber under the feet, with rocker between them...
> 
> I don't know, either this is the mess I think it is, or I'm just slow getting it :\


This is the problem with people that talk about snowboarding. They won't learn what every company is doing in terms of tech or the proper names. Hence you get guys talking about C2 as R.C. Tech in product videos and what not. Educating yourself is the only thing I can tell people and find sources you trust.

This quote below basically sums up a lot of what's going on. It's not as black and white, but basic jiff. 



F1EA said:


> Basically....... dont worry about anything with either a "TM" or (c) after it. Shit's got either camber, rocker or its flat.





powderjunkie said:


> Except they always end in flame wars. Now i am not saying that what BA is saying is totally wack or off base. But, there comes a point where criticism is no longer helping anyone else and just comes off as prepubescent temper tantrums. I mean Mervin is just as ridiculous with their branding, pricing, and materials but I dont see anyone walking into Mervin threads and calling them out for being "crappy products". But then again... I guess he isnt AngrySnowboarder for nothing. It's just strange that NS managed to stick in his craw more than any of the other snowboard brands.


Want me to link to you to some old posts? I have plenty of old arguments with Mervin people that are still valid to this day. I loved when their PLM went ballistic on me because I pointed out their over abundance of tip fill and reverse camber. He didn't like me referring to the first gen Skate Banana as "beach ball getting fucked by a steak knife and wishing it was a leg bag". (Paraphrasing that). 

Mervin took the avoid me and ignore me at all costs approach. Strange how companies want you to be honest, but only when it's not about them. Regardless the doors been cracked open and they're talking to me through it, so 16/17 I expect I will ride some of their stuff. 

I don't know if anyone's actually taken notice on here, but I don't answer as many gear questions as I used to. Try to avoid that as I have my own site devoted to that. 



linvillegorge said:


> Pretty much this. I respect BA's knowledge of the industry, but it's pretty clear that he has a major bone to pick with NS and that forces you to take a lot of what he says about them and their boards with a grain of salt.


Take it how you want strong opinions aren't for everyone. At the end of the day I'm not here to sell anyone one specific product. I just want to see some changes from people that have become fat cats. They know they fucked up and they know they could make it right, but they won't. I'm fine with that bridges to no where can be burned. 



ekb18c said:


> Well that one dude isn't anonymous and has a following. Could his post influence people on not to buy NS? Absolutely. He's got nothing to lose so might as well tell the truth.
> 
> I'm assuming you are talking about BA.





timmytard said:


> Really, haha, not a fuckin' chance.
> 
> I got the most fucked up plan in the works.
> As fucked up as it may be?
> ...


Oh please we all know you're blowing smoke up everyone's ass here. You don't have the ability to do anything, let alone you're trying to use psychological scare tactics by putting this out there. Have you never seen any action movie ever? The bad guy gives away the plotl ine and poof it fails. 

What are you going to do? Get Pensiero to invite me to Baldface for that Ultranatural race or the VBT or whatever it's called meet up? Then crowdfund enough cash to pay for my plane ticket to Canada? Please, your lame ass couldn't even afford to get a job to pay the taxes on your house and had to be saved by the Internet. 

Delusions of grandeur that anyone on here remotely cares that you have some master plot to hurt/hinder/kill me are nothing more than that, delusions. You've left a track record of threats on a site that has your IP address, you've left comments on my site making the same threats thus leaving an IP address. Anything remotely happens to me that seems off there's a record of your intent. Real smart move guy. 

I have enough lawyers in my family that if, and this would be a huge stretch of the imagination, if you were able to lure me into anything that could remotely cause me harm I would sue your ass into the ground. I would own that shit hovel you conned the Internet into saving for you and then I would bulldoze it while you watched. 

Your a con artist felon who needs to take advantage of your countries free health care and get help.


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## powderjunkie (Jun 30, 2015)

BurtonAvenger said:


> Regardless the doors been cracked open and they're talking to me through it, so 16/17 I expect I will ride some of their stuff.


Now that is awesome. I cannot wait to read those reviews. I've always wanted to buy one but between the ridiculous prices, the ridiculous profile names, and not having fully wrapped edges I never got around to it.


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## The Chairman (Aug 17, 2009)

QUOTE=foobaz;2353025]Actually, you should. 
Between the hyperbole, the invectives and the childish lack of control over one's emotions, there are some really specific accusations and I for one, as someone who's just recently bought a 2015 Ripsaw, am very interested in your responses.
This is only to answer these questions since you asked.
Originally Posted by BurtonAvenger View Post
Every NS I have ever owned and believe me it's about 40 plus decks decambered horribly almost all of the last ones I had it was between 30 and 50 days. Always did. 
Originally Posted by Nivek View Post
Soggy in thirty to forty days is pretty awful when I've had boards stay lively for well over 100.
Comment: We have not had any warranty issues with this complaint nor have I heard of this selling Never Summer boards in my shop 17 of it's 22 years. There are plenty of end consumers, plus I'm sure some of the members here will attest that their Never Summer boards haven't lost their camber in 30+ days, nor do they feel soggy. Bart Czarnecki who is mega carver and built like a Soviet era super soldier weighing over 200 pounds, puts tremendous pressure over a board, he's still riding a 2010/11 Raptor and original Chairman with over 100 days on each. 
[URL="http://megustasport.com/kasprowy-photo-shoot/"]Some pics of Bart digging trenches and putting our boards flex to the test.
 I doubt he would be able to do this on a "soggy" board. Never Summer Industries uses the highest quality pre-cured fiberglass in the world. Pre-cured fiberglass not pre-preg has the closest tolerances when it comes to resin ratio, giving it the highest strength to weight ratio of any fiberglass. This same glass is used by the overwhelming majority of archery manufactures worldwide, they use it for the same reason.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BurtonAvenger View Post
Why is there only one fucking U.S. manufacturer that does a clear UV coat that looks good?
Is NS not interested in that tech ? 
Comment:We're always interested in looking into different materials. And are currently experimenting with many new highly durable top-sheet materials to supplement Carbonium in our line. We test top-sheet for UV damage by exposing on our roof for weeks at a time. We've seen no significant fading or UV damage from this on Carbonium or the Matte sub-glass we use. The only time I've seen fading is on boards made into benches, that are exposed to UV rays continually for long periods (years). No one is just leaving a board they're going to ride in the sun for that long. Most manufactures have evolved from the old school clear coating process to top-sheet materials that have the UV clear coat already built into them. Making them lighter and more durable.


Quote:
Originally Posted by BurtonAvenger View Post
What about the fact that "Carbonium" has been around for 20 years. It's the same topsheet that's on rental equipment. I first encountered it in the late 90's. Shits indestructible but it's also dead and weighs a fuck ton. It's double to triple the weight of a glass or normal topsheet.
Comment: It's a thin thermoplastic that doesn't "deaden" a board and is very light. The Carbonium is marginally lighter than our Matte material. All top-sheets are typically a type of thermoplastic, from nylon, urethane, ABS or PBT (Polyester). All of these thermoplastics are nearly the same weight when the same thickness. The top-sheet we use is the thinnest and lightest available, being lighter than most other top-sheets used. Anyone involved in snowboarding manufacturing and familiar with the different materials available would know that the thermoplastic is one of the lightest available.


Quote:
Originally Posted by BurtonAvenger View Post
Do you know what tip fill is? Why is there so much in a NS board? Fuck go take a skill saw and cut your boards tips off right at the start of the upkick. Look at that tip fill, in a time when EVERY OTHER FUCKING TOP 3 Tier brands and up is using full wood cores, why? [...] When a board has a gallon of epoxy in it to wet the fiberglass vs using prepreg the ride completely changes.
Quote: Comment: Never Summer has been using full length wood cores for the past 15 years, using very little tip fill material, just enough to encapsulate the tip of the wood, most sandwich construction boards use some tip-fill to protect ends of the core. The ones that don’t are using a “cap construction tip”, which has been proven to be less durable. As far as prepreg vs. wet layup (which has nothing to do with tip fill), pre-preg fiberglass and wet layup fiberglass use the exact same amount of epoxy when the fiber to resin ratios are controlled through fiberglass impregnation machines (which are used on every Never Summer snowboard). The only difference between pre-preg and wet layup is pre-preg needs to be refrigerated and wet layup glass doesn’t. 


Originally Posted by BurtonAvenger View Post
Just for reference take your hands and hold them up in front of you and have your thumbs outstretch and touch each other and stick your index fingers up so it looks like a field goal for a paper football. Look at the space between your fingers and thumbs. That is roughly the size of tip fill in each board built in the U.S. That's not just NS that's predominately 98% of all U.S. made boards. That tip fill has no properties to it that actually help the snowboard.
Comment:







[/URL][/IMG]See the picture (that is a penny on top of the core to illustrate how small the tip fill is even before its cut), the tip fill attached to the core, its very small and ½ of it gets cut off in the production process leaving around 1cm of material in the board, this material just like the sidewall material protects the board from impact damage. The only reason some other companies don’t use tip fill is to save money. 


Quote:
Originally Posted by BurtonAvenger View Post
[...] they should get rid of Crown Plastics and go to ISO it's just a better base material currently. [...] I want the best at that price not some second rate plastic that based on the color will pull easier if I hit a rock.
Comment:
Never Summer Industries has used and experimented with both Crown Plastics and Isosport. We've found both to be fine materials and have great glide and durability characteristics. Most manufactures are using one or the other or both. 


@The Chairman - if you were not on that board (let alone in this thread), or didn't speak about NS using the word "us", it would be ok for you to just ignore all of the above. No obligations. But since you're here, I don't think you can pretend this has never been said, without giving some credibility to the accusations and causing some people to rethink their choice of NS for their new board. New customers aside, I'm a current customer and very curious to hear what you have to say.[/QUOTE]


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## foobaz (Jan 28, 2015)

The Chairman said:


> This is only to answer these questions since you asked.


Thanks for taking the time, those were great answers.


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## f00bar (Mar 6, 2014)

This is like sending a group of people into a room with Alexander Hamilton and another with Lenin and knowing each group will come out a convert.


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## linvillegorge (Jul 6, 2009)

snowklinger said:


> you may need to go ahead and give yourself a time out soon


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## powderjunkie (Jun 30, 2015)

Good answers. Not much you can argue about there. Way to stay above the fray Chairman.


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## timmytard (Mar 19, 2009)

Oh please we all know you're blowing smoke up everyone's ass here. You don't have the ability to do anything, let alone you're trying to use psychological scare tactics by putting this out there. Have you never seen any action movie ever? The bad guy gives away the plotl ine and poof it fails. 

What are you going to do? Get Pensiero to invite me to Baldface for that Ultranatural race or the VBT or whatever it's called meet up? Then crowdfund enough cash to pay for my plane ticket to Canada? Please, your lame ass couldn't even afford to get a job to pay the taxes on your house and had to be saved by the Internet. 

Delusions of grandeur that anyone on here remotely cares that you have some master plot to hurt/hinder/kill me are nothing more than that, delusions. You've left a track record of threats on a site that has your IP address, you've left comments on my site making the same threats thus leaving an IP address. Anything remotely happens to me that seems off there's a record of your intent. Real smart move guy. 

I have enough lawyers in my family that if, and this would be a huge stretch of the imagination, if you were able to lure me into anything that could remotely cause me harm I would sue your ass into the ground. I would own that shit hovel you conned the Internet into saving for you and then I would bulldoze it while you watched. 

Your a con artist felon who needs to take advantage of your countries free health care and get help.[/QUOTE]



How stupid are you?

You've been told the same info over & over & you still can't comprehend the info.
Maybe there's just too much info for your drugged out hooker fuckin' brain?


1. It wasn't my idea.
2. It started without my knowledge. Didn't find out till about 8 hours after it started.
3. Your own little henchman was the one who told everyone. Not me, I tried to hide it.

That's about as short as I can get it. If you still think I'm a scammer?

Something is seriously wrong with your head.
You can't make stuff up, then tell people it's fact.
When the facts are right before everyone.

It makes you look like a fool.



Ah, I'm startin' to smell the fear, I like that smell.

Haha, what do you think I'm gonna try & attack you? Haha please. haha cute, haha.

No no, for my fucked up plan to come to fruition, I'm gonna need your help ole buddy, ole pal.:finger1:

Obviously, we all know, YOU are a total pussy & will weasel out of whatever it is, even before you what it is, because that's how big mouth pussy weasels work, Haha, see how easy it is to see.

I had to work that into my plan, so yeah, not easy.
Sweet that you have an army of lawyers on you side, haha, pussy bitch.
That will only further prove that that YOU are just a pussy, & that this thing most definitely COULD be put together.

Stoked, haha, between your team of & lawyers & my sheer determination, oh don't forget the people, they'll have a lot to do with it too.
Plus you have your site, should be a breeze. haha.


Well, there you have it Wren. The most informative, entertaining post of the summer, maybe?:embarrased1:

Never Summer's are awesome, there's a reason why people get torn to pieces when they bad mouth em.
Too many of us ride them & know that, that's not the case.

Get the RipSaw, you'll be blown away. I have one here, that Vince let me try.
I got my best & longest snowboarding buddy in the world to buy one.
Does that tell you anything.

He's been my best friend since I was 5 years old, he was the first guy I ever went snowboarding with 28 years ago. He's been riding one year longer, I know this, cause he tells me about 3o times a year
I only want the best for my buddy Bruce, I love him like family.
Plus I gotta ride with em, so yeah, can't be havin' him ridin' something shitty.

He will have no excuses now, haha. We're a bit competitive I gotta give mine back though, he doesn't.
That part's not very cool.But it least I'll have access to his, hopefully after mine goes back:hairy: 

Bruce & I, play snowboards pretty seriously, haha.
The deal that day was actually a trade, it took about four hours or something like that
After many hours we finally had it down to handful of his sweet old vintage boards, for an Arbor Roundhouse & a Gnu c2bxtxec3bdc haha one of those ones. haha.
Neither one of us liked that deal though in the end so back to the drawing board.

Final decision, handful of sweet vintage boards for just the Ripsaw.

TT


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## The Chairman (Aug 17, 2009)

foobaz said:


> Thanks for taking the time, those were great answers.


You're welcome.


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## timmytard (Mar 19, 2009)

The Chairman said:


> You're welcome.


Nicely done too, by the way.


TT


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## BurtonAvenger (Aug 14, 2007)

timmytard said:


> How stupid are you?
> 
> You've been told the same info over & over & you still can't comprehend the info.
> Maybe there's just too much info for your drugged out hooker fuckin' brain?
> ...


I present to everyone paranoid schizophrenia with bipolar disorder at it's finest. Might even be a sprinkling of manic depression thrown in for good mix. 

Whatever you need to keep telling yourself, you're still a felon scam artist do nothing. Sucks to suck chief. I will once again suggest that you get help from your countries health care system since it's there for you.


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