# Cartel est Vs diode est vs non est for custom X



## The-Snoopy (Nov 17, 2011)

Hey peeps

So second post in a row..

I've narrowed my new board down to the 2013 Custom X 160 im 185-190 lbs and i have a hard time deciding on bindings.. 

I kinda want Cartels, but i read all over the internet that they're getting softer and softer and dont want to end up with to soft bindings..

The flex rating seems to be the same for the Cst X and Cartels..

/Cheers Snoopy


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## Supra (Jan 11, 2012)

Cartels are not too soft. They have the same support as last year so don't worry about it. I like them waaaaayyyyy better than diodes.


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## ShredLife (Feb 6, 2010)

at your weight you'll be breaking diodes. not talking shit about your weight - just that over about 170 and hard landings will kill the light binding from most manufacturers line.... no DMCC lights for you either...


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## Alkasquawlik (Jul 13, 2010)

ShredLife said:


> at your weight you'll be breaking diodes. not talking shit about your weight - just that over about 170 and hard landings will kill the light binding from most manufacturers line.... no DMCC lights for you either...


185-190 pounds is heavy? :dunno:

There's a guy over on EL who is 210+ and rode Diodes with no problems...


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## ShredLife (Feb 6, 2010)

there are countless broken highbacks from last years diodes and i'm pretty sure this years aren't built any different. 

just because someone made it a season without his breaking doesn't mean that the product doesn't have flaws.


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## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

ShredLife said:


> at your weight you'll be breaking diodes. not talking shit about your weight - just that over about 170 and hard landings will kill the light binding from most manufacturers line.... no DMCC lights for you either...


I would agree with X-Base as the purpose of that binding was to be light. The Diode has the same frame as the Malavita if I'm not mistaken. So the only other part is the Highback and with it being full carbon I dont think sub 200lbs will have an issue.

Cartels are softer than ever. Straight from a Burton rep. He didnt know why they dont say so on the site, neither do I.

Aaaand I didnt read far enough. If there are enough cases of snapped highbacks on Diodes (I personally havent dealt with any) then I say Malavitas.


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## Supra (Jan 11, 2012)

Nivek said:


> Cartels are softer than ever. Straight from a Burton rep. He didnt know why they dont say so on the site, neither do I.


I'll take your rep and raise him by a guy who designs the actual bindings. Cartels are the same stiffness as last year. The highback has 3% more torsional flex, that's all.

You make them sound like they're as stiff as a pair of tube socks


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## hktrdr (Apr 3, 2012)

Supra said:


> I'll take your rep and raise him by a guy who designs the actual bindings. Cartels are the same stiffness as last year. The highback has 3% more torsional flex, that's all.
> 
> You make them sound like they're as stiff as a pair of tube socks


You are still going on about the 3%!? I thought we had thoroughly debunked that in the the other thread...


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## Supra (Jan 11, 2012)

LOL you only debunked it in your head buddy. I guess the Burton bindings dept didn't get your memo about you not approving their results! I think Jake's going to go through the roof!


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## hktrdr (Apr 3, 2012)

Supra said:


> LOL you only debunked it in your head buddy. I guess the Burton bindings dept didn't get your memo about you not approving their results! I think Jake's going to go through the roof!


Well, all the marketing materials and reps as well as reviews are saying one thing. Only you and your purported source are saying something else.
And we have clearly established that the 3% number is bullshit, as it has never been clarified/confirmed what was actually measured.
I will leave it at that.


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## Supra (Jan 11, 2012)

Way to over generalize there! What are these marketing materials? Last time I checked the burton site it says the cartels are " a shade more powerful than the malavitas". The reps would be the one that Nivek spoke to? Or have you personally spoken to one? And the reviews......nivek again?

If you read my posts more carefully you would have seen that I'm not disagreeing that the cartel highback is not as stiff as the vitas, I'm saying that the 2013 cartels do not have less support than the 2012's. the vita baseplate is softer than the cartel one though.

I think nivek is just comparing the 2013 cartel and vita highbacks rather than 2012 to 2013 cartels


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## The-Snoopy (Nov 17, 2011)

Great with some info guys, but if you would give me your opinion regarding which binding to go for to :-D ?

Should i try to grab some older cartels ? last year or 11 ?..

/Cheers


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## Supra (Jan 11, 2012)

Get them in this order depending on your budget:
2014 ltd or 2013 regional love
2013
2011 late release with reflex
2012

Just make sure you get a pair with reflex bases


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## BFBF (Jan 15, 2012)

The-Snoopy said:


> Great with some info guys, but if you would give me your opinion regarding which binding to go for to :-D ?
> 
> Should i try to grab some older cartels ? last year or 11 ?..
> 
> /Cheers


To answer your initial question as I sift through the BS advice and attempt to summarize from my burton bindings over the years:

- I've had 3 different cartels over the years including year one with the crazy forward lean.---- Cartel will be solid middle of the road bomb proof all mountain binding... Tried and true performer

- I own generation one diodes that i've had for a few seasons( I got a sample a few years ago before they were released)--- Don't worry about breaking them, i'm 6'1 185 and have them on My rossignol Experience and they look brand new. - Lightweight and extremely aggressive. Much more responsive than the cartels. Stiff highback, geared toward freeride, but you can use ANY binding anywhere...If this sounds like your style =diodes.


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## krankedmusic (Nov 15, 2012)

I got the cartels est on my Sherlock beautiful set of bindings. Had flows 3 & 5 Broke the base plate on both, volkl broke the strap lock. Had the cartels for 2 years now. Only bindings that had lasted this long.


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## poutanen (Dec 22, 2011)

The-Snoopy said:


> Great with some info guys, but if you would give me your opinion regarding which binding to go for to :-D ?
> 
> Should i try to grab some older cartels ? last year or 11 ?..
> /Cheers


Get a pair of Burton C60's end of story... There are several brand new pairs still available from the 2011 stock IIRC. If not I'll be selling my T7 and C60s when I'm fully comfortable with my new board.

They'd be a great match for a Custom X.


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## Lamps (Sep 3, 2011)

poutanen said:


> Get a pair of Burton C60's end of story... There are several brand new pairs still available from the 2011 stock IIRC. If not I'll be selling my T7 and C60s when I'm fully comfortable with my new board.
> 
> They'd be a great match for a Custom X.


That's exactly what I would do.


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## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

Supra said:


> LOL you only debunked it in your head buddy. I guess the Burton bindings dept didn't get your memo about you not approving their results! I think Jake's going to go through the roof!


Bahahaha. 3%. Manufacturing tolerances are more than that jack stack. One of the dudes I work with has last years Malavitas and this years Cartels. They're softer. He said so. He owns both. He's been riding for 20ish years. I had a wwhole discussion with the head rep out here about it. How he's tired of them changing the Cartel literally every single year. That he wished they take a year off on it and let it be.

I'll believe they're the same stiffness only after the designer himself talks to me.

This is the internets. Without anything to back it up I might as well just say Jake told them too soften them up cause he wanted them a bit more playful.


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## Supra (Jan 11, 2012)

so, you're not speaking from first-hand experience, just from what a buddy told you, eh. He says the 2013 cartels are softer than the 2012 malavitas, right? How does that prove anything? You can't conclude that the cartels have been getting softer every year.
Anyways, you're right about the internet. Luckily, I don't have to convince you of anything.


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## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

Supra said:


> Way to over generalize there! What are these marketing materials? Last time I checked the burton site it says the cartels are " a shade more powerful than the malavitas". The reps would be the one that Nivek spoke to? Or have you personally spoken to one? And the reviews......nivek again?
> 
> If you read my posts more carefully you would have seen that I'm not disagreeing that the cartel highback is not as stiff as the vitas, I'm saying that the 2013 cartels do not have less support than the 2012's. the vita baseplate is softer than the cartel one though.
> 
> I think nivek is just comparing the 2013 cartel and vita highbacks rather than 2012 to 2013 cartels


Here, I'll compare them all. 2012 Cartel is stiffer than 2012 Malavita. 2012 Malavita is the same as 2013 Malavita. Thereby the 2012 Cartel is stiffer than the 2013 Malavita. 2012 Cartel is stiffer than 2013 Cartel.

Same Glass content in the base between the Cartel and the Malavita. The trays are the same on the ReFlex, and the biggest difference between the EST's is the Hinge. Which does not make the binding less responsive.

2012 and 2013 Cartels have the same frame for both EST and Reflex. The strap is different for the standard, but the Restricted for 2012 and 2013 is the Asym. 

Where then is the difference? The highback. Its softer torsionally. That matters. It makes the binding softer. 3% is a number you made up. No respectable engineer will claim that as a legitimate stat for something with low realistic manufacturing tolerances.


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## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

Supra said:


> so, you're not speaking from first-hand experience, just from what a buddy told you, eh. He says the 2013 cartels are softer than the 2012 malavitas, right? How does that prove anything? You can't conclude that the cartels have been getting softer every year.
> Anyways, you're right about the internet. Luckily, I don't have to convince you of anything.


Where did I say they were getting softer EVERY year? They are softer than I've ever seen BEFORE. Up until this year they had actually been getting steadily stiffer.

Why does it matter if its me telling you this cause I rode both, or talking to my fellow employee who OWNS both and being told the new ones are softer?

Would it be more convincing if he was on here telling you?


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## Supra (Jan 11, 2012)

sorry, I misread your 'cartels are softer than ever' for 'cartels have been getting softer'.

Anyways, we are saying the same thing.


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## The-Snoopy (Nov 17, 2011)

Thanks for the tips guys..

I think im gonna have a hard time getting my hand on some c60's, but how stiff are they.. ??.. dont think i want like rock hard bindings !! ^^..

Anyone tried the regio love Ltd or 2014 Ltd? That can tell me if they feel stiffer than the current years ?.. They have the same flex rating as far as i can see..

/Cheers form Denmark :-D


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## poutanen (Dec 22, 2011)

The-Snoopy said:


> I think im gonna have a hard time getting my hand on some c60s, but how stiff are they.. ??.. dont think i want like rock hard bindings !! ^^..


They're quite stiff and responsive. One of the stiffest out there as far as I know. I ride them often, and I have for the past 3 seasons. I can still butter, jump, etc. on them so it's not like having you legs welded to the board. But when I want to rail a turn they are VERY good at telling me exactly what the edge is doing.

That's why I think they'd be a good match for the camber Custom X. It's a stiff camber board designed for hard charging, and these are the bindings to match.

Not to say that other options won't work, but in the Burton EST lineup it'd be the one to get for hard charging.

What size boots do you wear? I'll have a look and see what I can find for the C60s.


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## The-Snoopy (Nov 17, 2011)

That sounds awesome .-D

I use 9,5 US so should be medium bindings. .

Remember they have to be able to ship to europe ^^..

/Cheers


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## BFBF (Jan 15, 2012)

The-Snoopy said:


> Thanks for the tips guys..
> 
> I think im gonna have a hard time getting my hand on some c60's, but how stiff are they.. ??.. dont think i want like rock hard bindings !! ^^..
> 
> ...


c60 and diode - similar.

just get cartels and don't fall victim to paralysis by overanalysis


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## poutanen (Dec 22, 2011)

Had a tough time finding C60's... Found some C02's though which are slightly less stiff, still supposed to be a bloody good binding though I've never tried them myself.

They ship to Europe:

Burton C02 CO2 EST Snowboard Bindings M Med 8-10 Mens US cartel | eBay


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## Lamps (Sep 3, 2011)

poutanen said:


> Had a tough time finding C60's... Found some C02's though which are slightly less stiff, still supposed to be a bloody good binding though I've never tried them myself.
> 
> They ship to Europe:
> 
> Burton C02 CO2 EST Snowboard Bindings M Med 8-10 Mens US cartel | eBay


Buy the feelgood on eBay with the c60's, then flip the feelgood or give it to your snowboard bunny girlfriend...


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## poutanen (Dec 22, 2011)

Lamps said:


> Buy the feelgood on eBay with the c60's, then flip the feelgood or give it to your snowboard bunny girlfriend...


BAH! My girlfriend rides camber, she knows better than most of you! :cheeky4:

I've got C60 EST bindings, it's tough finding non-EST C60s in medium brand new. Next to impossible actually.


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## Lamps (Sep 3, 2011)

poutanen said:


> BAH! My girlfriend rides camber, she knows better than most of you! :cheeky4:
> 
> I've got C60 EST bindings, it's tough finding non-EST C60s in medium brand new. Next to impossible actually.


Not for you, for Snoopy. The world doesn't revolve around putin, and we know you already have them. It's his thread, we're trying to find bindings (and maybe a girlfriend) for him.


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## poutanen (Dec 22, 2011)

Lamps said:


> Not for you, for Snoopy. The world doesn't revolve around putin, and we know you already have them. It's his thread, we're trying to find bindings (and maybe a girlfriend) for him.


Hey hey I`m Medvedev... Putins puppet. :laugh:


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## poutanen (Dec 22, 2011)

The-Snoopy said:


> That sounds awesome .-D
> I use 9,5 US so should be medium bindings. .
> Remember they have to be able to ship to europe ^^..
> /Cheers


These are used, but could get them for a good price. Size Medium, EST (I e-mailed the seller) not sure when I'll be in Edmonton next but I could check them out if you wanted.

2011 Burton C02 Bindings - Edmonton Sports Goods For Sale - Kijiji Edmonton Canada.


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## bpowder (Nov 5, 2012)

shipping costs will make that deal not worth it at all

i might be wrong, didn't read whole thread but.. if he wants to order bindings from US to Danmark, he will pay big money for shipping

i live in sweden, 2 years ago i ordered shoes from ebay from states, price of shoes was like 110 $, shipping costs + some stupid taxes etc in sweden made price over 200 $ in the end.. and i think it's gonna be same for danmark and all scandic countries

BUT that's what happened to me, just warning you to check how does it work before you decide to order anything from states to europe.. even if seller will pay shipping costs, you still have to pay tax or whatever it is in your country, so buying in UE would be better idea i think


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## The-Snoopy (Nov 17, 2011)

Thanks for looking around poutanen but if im gonna buy online from US it has to be new gear..

Bpowder is totally right about the shipping to Denmark is crazy.. It the price of the good + shipping and then 33% in taxes on the hole price :-S..

Regarding the GF i now one that wont be happy if i get another ..

Anyone nows bout Genesis ? 

/cheers.


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## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

This is what I was told about the Genesis by Burton, I have not ridden them:

The average buyer getting the super high end techy stuff is the guy with lots of money that rides maybe 5 days a year. That guy isnt really pushing his equipment and probably doesnt need something super responsive and stiff. Now, Genesis. A super techy binding that isnt "uber" stiff and "ultra" responsive. So the rich dude can spend his money but get a binding thats a little more appropriate to his ability.


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## Sassicaia (Jan 21, 2012)

Nivek said:


> This is what I was told about the Genesis by Burton, I have not ridden them:
> 
> The average buyer getting the super high end techy stuff is the guy with lots of money that rides maybe 5 days a year. That guy isnt really pushing his equipment and probably doesnt need something super responsive and stiff. Now, Genesis. A super techy binding that isnt "uber" stiff and "ultra" responsive. So the rich dude can spend his money but get a binding thats a little more appropriate to his ability.


This is kind of like saying that if you dont ride uber stiff bindings you arnt a good rider...

Why cant good riders who dont want uber stiff bindings have tech in less stiff options?

Am I missing something?

BTW..its doesnt take a guy with lots of money to afford $300-$400 bindings lol


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## Supra (Jan 11, 2012)

most bindings feel like ... bindings. The Genesis, on the other hand, don't feel like any other binding out there. They are next level shit. Can't wait for my pair to arrive


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## waterryder (Nov 22, 2012)

whats up everyone....new to this forum but not new to the sport about 20 years of riding...with that said....last year I bought the Custom X and slapped the EST Diodes on the board, it is by far the stiffest setup I have ever had......been on several sets of cartels, ride, and flows for that matter....it all depends on your riding style and what you like....if you like stiff bindings then buyem....i will say that the Custom X flat gets it on the mountain.....and the combo of the diodes with the X is fast....

As a side note I am 6'2/220 and put 59 days on that board and bindings last year and didnt have a problem with my highbacks.....this doesnt include the days that I pulled the bindings off my X and put them on my fish...they are good bindings and the lightest i have ever had....

Just my 2 cents....


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## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

Sassicaia said:


> This is kind of like saying that if you dont ride uber stiff bindings you arnt a good rider...
> 
> Why cant good riders who dont want uber stiff bindings have tech in less stiff options?
> 
> ...


Hey its not what I'm sayin, its what I was told. And their analysis of the market is more or less correct. The seasoned riders I get in here arent dropping near $400 for a binding. If they want something a little softer, like I've been told the Genesis is, there are much cheaper options which means they can afford real food over ramen that month. It does seem that Burton is pushing a softer highback and this being a two piece oddity maybe it does provide all the response you can ask for. I dont know. But I know a lot of people were expecting it to replace the Prophecy and as fas as I've been told it does only in price point, not performance. Does that mean someone who loved the Prophecy wont like the Genesis, I have no idea. I just want to inform those looking at this guy that it might not be what they think.


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