# Snow Tires, are they worth it?



## Banjo (Jan 29, 2013)

Been doing the switch for years. Now I just have an extra set of wheels and boom, its a 15 minute change 2 times a year. no big difference most of the time, but MASSIVE difference in garbage weather/fresh snow/ice. those times alone make it worth it for me.


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## Alpine Duke (Jun 21, 2015)

studded only help starting and stopping. The true advantage for snow tires is keeping linear stability and I believe they are worth it but am not sure that opinions on this forum, including mine, are really the best source for safety advice  Not really the most conservative, safe group around eh :hairy:


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## linvillegorge (Jul 6, 2009)

For a FWD or RWD only vehicle, snow tires are essentially a must if you live in an area that gets any real snow or you want to travel to and from snowy areas with any regularity. Keep the chains in the trunk as a backup, but you'll likely find yourself needing them far less often if at all. Snow tires make a BIG difference.


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## Argo (Feb 25, 2010)

linvillegorge said:


> For a FWD or RWD only vehicle, snow tires are essentially a must if you live in an area that gets any real snow or you want to travel to and from snowy areas with any regularity. Keep the chains in the trunk as a backup, but you'll likely find yourself needing them far less often if at all. Snow tires make a BIG difference.


Qft. Snow tires definitely will be noticed.


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## highme (Dec 2, 2012)

Studless snows FTW.


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## Rogue (Nov 29, 2014)

Any noticeable difference in gas mileage? 

In the good old days we would have the snow level drop pretty low, but now that it's been higher I've probably used chains a total of 3 times and that doesn't include last season. 

Yes I was wondering if I had snow tires would I need chains at all and I should clarify that I have cables not chains, if that makes any difference. 

I remember driving to Bend once and it took forever. I didn't need chains but once the sun was gone those roads were a melted frozen crunchy mess. I'm assuming snow tires would have been much better? 

Meh people here will have more experience and information than the guy who is wanting to sell a chick snow tires...."oh yes you absolutely NEED these" etc 

Now, if I could just find a guy who snowboards with an SUV all my problems would be solved hahaha


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## SkullAndXbones (Feb 24, 2014)

tires are expensive though and if you plan on getting an suv in the future those tires probably won't fit on it so if the chains are working i would just use those and save your money for a 4x4 or an AWD suv.


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## 70'sskater (Mar 20, 2014)

Rogue said:


> So...I drive a FWD car and I just chain up as needed....not a huge deal, I can do it super fast, but I hate driving with chains on. I hate finding the best place to put them on and then take them off.
> 
> What I'm wondering is, are snow tires really that superior? My dealership is offering free storage with a purchase of them so it's got me thinking about it. It would certainly be cheaper than getting a SUV for now....
> 
> What is your experience and thoughts on this for those who switch over to them in the winter? And I'm talking non-studded....don't get me started on those....


If the road conditions are really bad I think the last restriction before they close a pass is "chains required or 4x4 drive". Even if you get snow tires on a fwd car you could still be required to put chains on.


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## Phedder (Sep 13, 2014)

Rogue said:


> Now, if I could just find a guy who snowboards with an SUV all my problems would be solved hahaha


Please form an orderly line...


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

Questions like this surprise me as having snow/winter tires in wintertime is the absolute normality over here. 

Winter tires are not only made just for snow... their rubber composition is in general optimized for cold temperatures. Breaking distance of summer tires in cold temps gets very bad, not only on icy or snowy roads, also in simlpy just wet n cold conditions. Their rubber composition just doesn't grip in cold temps. They are made to have grip in warm and even hot temps (when winter tires suck as they won't grip well in hot temps). 

IMO, if you live somewhere where you get <7°C and precipitation - rain - winter tires are a should; if you get snow n ice, they're a must.











Considering gas milage: my SUV uses 9L/100km with summer tires and 9.5L/100km with winter tires. Only a small increase. The more unnerving thing is that winter tires are louder... but this seems to depend on the brand/model as well. I chose the brand with the best testresults on snowy conditions as I have to drive on steep roads on snow a lot and didn't care that this particular tire model is a bit louder.

Also not every snow tire is as good as the other snow tire. Some are better on snow, some better on wet roads... and some cheepo ones are just lousy anyway. I once had a snow tire which was so lousy, I ended in the ditch twice in 2 days along our steep road with my Subaru Legacy 4x4... the car slipped _sideways_ along the sideway pitch of the road while driving upwards. Never happened again since I go for good winter tires


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## kosmoz (Dec 27, 2013)

The difference is huge and it's a must on all veicles, not only FWD or AWD, because it doesn't matter fwd, rwd or awd, all of them are stopping the same, hence AWD, beeing heavier, stops slower. 

all weather tires sucks dick big time. I had and awfull experience driving with michelin PILOT HX MXM4 on rear and continental sport contact 3 on front of my bmw540i, it was undriveable in wet, front was holding strong and the car was overteering ir normal everyday driving. Finished them in 4 months. There were thread for 3 more seasons, but i hated them and burned them in like 2 minutes before puting winter tires on my car for winter season.

This year I bought a 14' jetta from iaai auctions for my mother, it came with Bridgestone Turanza EL400-02 all weather tires, they are awfull, noisy, bad grip in every conditions. Put on a winter tires, gislaved eurofrost 5, and they are much more quiet and I can bet on my house, they would crush those all season shits in every winter condition.


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## bksdds (Jul 2, 2015)

Rogue said:


> Any noticeable difference in gas mileage?
> 
> In the good old days we would have the snow level drop pretty low, but now that it's been higher I've probably used chains a total of 3 times and that doesn't include last season.
> 
> ...


Quick link to the results page of TireRack. I went off their tire rankings when I dropped 800$ on a set. I trust it. 

Where does the line start? :hairy:


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## tanscrazydaisy (Mar 11, 2013)

Rogue said:


> Any noticeable difference in gas mileage?
> 
> In the good old days we would have the snow level drop pretty low, but now that it's been higher I've probably used chains a total of 3 times and that doesn't include last season.
> 
> ...


Companies make "Low Rolling Resistance" winter tires now, so if you get them, then fuel economy won't be impacted, but, if the rest of the year tires are not LRR, then you might see an improvement.

Back to chains, in certain conditions, you may still need to use chains, whether it's voluntary or mandatory (assuming you're not using studded tires).

Going through the icy mess you had, winter tires would have afforded you with a better safety margin than all-seasons without chains, because you have the increased traction at all 4 wheels, to accelerate, brake & steer.

cables, chains, doesn't make a difference, make you you buy something that is quality. With cables, you just need to make you're buying the SCC cable chains, not the generic "roller" ones that cost the same price and don't work as well.


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## tanscrazydaisy (Mar 11, 2013)

kosmoz said:


> The difference is huge and it's a must on all veicles, not only FWD or AWD, because it doesn't matter fwd, rwd or awd, all of them are stopping the same, hence AWD, beeing heavier, stops slower.
> 
> all weather tires sucks dick big time. I had and awfull experience driving with michelin PILOT HX MXM4 on rear and continental sport contact 3 on front of my bmw540i, it was undriveable in wet, front was holding strong and the car was overteering ir normal everyday driving. Finished them in 4 months. There were thread for 3 more seasons, but i hated them and burned them in like 2 minutes before puting winter tires on my car for winter season.
> 
> This year I bought a 14' jetta from iaai auctions for my mother, it came with Bridgestone Turanza EL400-02 all weather tires, they are awfull, noisy, bad grip in every conditions. Put on a winter tires, gislaved eurofrost 5, and they are much more quiet and I can bet on my house, they would crush those all season shits in every winter condition.


Technically they are "all-season" tires, and to be called "all-season" (technically M+S aka Mud & Snow) they just need to meet a minimum void to tread ratio.

In europe, there is a new market for "all-weather" tires, that was pioneered by Nokian originally for the North American market. These all-weather tires still have the mountain-snowflake (an actual traction test, it's a low standard though), but trade the ultimate snow & ice traction so that it can be used year-round, especially for people that do not have the storage for multipe wheelset/tires.

With the Nokian's it started with the WR, then the WR G2, and now the WR G3 (which for passenger cars, is a combination of the A3 & D3). Hankook jumped in and offered a lower priced alternative, Optimo 4S. Michelin & Goodyear are also offering an "All-weather" tire now also.


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## killclimbz (Aug 10, 2007)

I would run snow tires on what ever you drive. Studs are nice for icy spots, but a good solid set of snow tires will grip and stop better than all seasons. studded or not.






Video sums it up pretty well.


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## Deacon (Mar 2, 2013)

Rogue said:


> Now, if I could just find a guy who snowboards with an SUV all my problems would be solved hahaha


You would just get a different set of problems... :hairy:


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## MikeIn248 (Dec 6, 2011)

Rogue said:


> Any noticeable difference in gas mileage?


I drive a Pontiac Vibe and use snow tires in the winter. I've found my highway gas mileage drops from around 32 mpg to about 25 mpg when I have both snow tires AND my roof racks on the car during the winter. I've never checked the mpg with either the snow tires or the racks, independently, so I can't say which plays the bigger role.


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## timmytard (Mar 19, 2009)

Rogue said:


> Any noticeable difference in gas mileage?
> 
> In the good old days we would have the snow level drop pretty low, but now that it's been higher I've probably used chains a total of 3 times and that doesn't include last season.
> 
> ...


There's no substutute for knowing how to drive, _in the snow_

Having said that, snow tires are night & day compared to summer tires.

Studded tires, haha, if you haven't driven with studded tires? 

Haha, you have no idea. I wouldn't even consider these tires.

I got to drive a Formula 4 car once. It was basically a long tube you crawl into, with open wheels, running slicks.

The day I got to drive this car, was in the middle of the summer. It was scorchin' hot.

Holy fuck, I had no idea how many G's you could get in a car, before it fly's off the road.
Insane grip cornering, I can't even put it into words...
But eventually, haha you will fly off the track.

Slicks, snowy's, all tires have a point that once you start sliding, you never know might happen

Studded tires don't ever slip.

If you think you are a rally car driver, these are a must.

Never in my whole life, have I got to the top of a mtn faster than I have than with studded tires.

On New Years eve 5 years ago, a buddy from out of town showed up.
I don't drink anymore. We raced up to Hemlock Valley Resort, to get there before midnight.

He said, drive it like you stole it. Haha he was so scared for the first ten min.

Later on, when I was in the bar, some retard was outside driving around on the actual ski runs.

The second I heard that, I knew who the retard was & it was.

You can drive up the slopes like you would any other steep hill on pavement.
It has to be ice or hardpack snow though, you ain't driving up the slopes in a foot of fresh.

I can teach you how to fish Rouge:hairy:


TT:embarrased1:


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## kosmoz (Dec 27, 2013)

MikeIn248 said:


> I drive a Pontiac Vibe and use snow tires in the winter. I've found my highway gas mileage drops from around 32 mpg to about 25 mpg when I have both snow tires AND my roof racks on the car during the winter. I've never checked the mpg with either the snow tires or the racks, independently, so I can't say which plays the bigger role.


you are an idiot. You increase drag bysome 20 % and not sure, roof rack of winter tires does the most


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## tanscrazydaisy (Mar 11, 2013)

MikeIn248 said:


> I drive a Pontiac Vibe and use snow tires in the winter. I've found my highway gas mileage drops from around 32 mpg to about 25 mpg when I have both snow tires AND my roof racks on the car during the winter. I've never checked the mpg with either the snow tires or the racks, independently, so I can't say which plays the bigger role.


It's the roof rack that is playing the bigger role, coupled with a "weak" 1.8L motor that you're putting extra strain on.... and you can't blame winter gas, because of the ethanol they put year-round now.


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## Mig Fullbag (Apr 15, 2014)

neni said:


> Questions like this surprise me as having snow/winter tires in wintertime is the absolute normality over here.
> 
> Winter tires are not only made just for snow... their rubber composition is in general optimized for cold temperatures. Breaking distance of summer tires in cold temps gets very bad, not only on icy or snowy roads, also in simlpy just wet n cold conditions. Their rubber composition just doesn't grip in cold temps. They are made to have grip in warm and even hot temps (when winter tires suck as they won't grip well in hot temps).
> 
> ...


THIS. Neni explained it perfectly. Not only do winter tires make a MAJOR difference, they are mandatory by law here in Quebec from December 15 to March 15, whether you have RWD, FWD or AWD.


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## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

geett'n to the hill and home in 1 piece without being in or the cause of a fucking line up for hours....priceless...worth every penny


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## Argo (Feb 25, 2010)

I actually ordered a new set of tires last night for my truck. $1500. I run them year round. I have about 50000 miles on my current set and ordered the same ones again. 

If you are getting a tire just for winter and will be swapping them off in summer than get the best true snow tire you can afford.


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## Matty_B_Bop (Jan 27, 2015)

I will never ride without snow tires. Been doing it for years, and I make the switch every season. 


Tire Rack will ship them with steelies all balanced and mounted for you. Then, you can just bolt them on and go. Depending upon the tires/size, you're looking at around $600-700 shipped.

$700 and 30-60 minutes to change them twice a year is worth every penny knowing you will not be stopped or nervous in snow season after season. My snow tires will last 5+ seasons, too. 

Snow tires I recommend:

General Altimax
Firestone Winterforce

I've used both of those and they are great. No need to spend tons of money on "top" snow tires. Those two brands above are on the lower end of price and function amazingly. The Winterforce are a little louder than the Altimax on road.


OP, what kind of car do you have?


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

Argo said:


> I have about 50000 miles on my current set and ordered the same ones again.


This is incredible! My brother told a similar number and I never believed him cos he has a huge car, uhm, Suburban something, and I couldn't imagine that this is possible, especially with that heavy car. I put two seasons on my winter tires and then they're done. That's only abt 13'000miles :eyetwitch2:


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## linvillegorge (Jul 6, 2009)

I've never bothered with dedicated snow tires on a 4wd, but to each their own. I just don't want the hassle of having to swap out tires and store the tires not being used. Storing tires for a full size SUV is a bit different than storing tires for a Honda Civic. That's a good chunk of the corner of your garage.

Plus, I don't like shoveling my steep driveway. While dedicated snow tires are great for packed snow conditions you find on the road, they aren't nearly as effective in deep, unplowed snow that you find in my driveway. :hairy:


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## Argo (Feb 25, 2010)

You have to remember that a heavier vehicle can use a little harder compound since the rubber will compress more under the weight. I use Goodyear Duratrac LT325/65r18 whish is a 35x13" tire.


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## ItchEtrigR (Jan 1, 2012)

Argo said:


> I actually ordered a new set of tires last night for my truck. $1500. I run them year round. I have about 50000 miles on my current set and ordered the same ones again.
> 
> If you are getting a tire just for winter and will be swapping them off in summer than get the best true snow tire you can afford.


Nice, what make and model? What's your tread depth now that your replacing them?


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## linvillegorge (Jul 6, 2009)

Argo said:


> You have to remember that a heavier vehicle can use a little harder compound since the rubber will compress more under the weight. I use Goodyear Duratrac LT325/65r18 whish is a 35x13" tire.


I'm currently running the Goodyear Silent Armors on my Tahoe and I'm on my 3rd set of them. Always loved them, but this is my last set of Goodyears. They claim they haven't changed anything, but bullshit. This set is wearing twice as fast as the last two, I've fought two persistent slow leaks and had one catastrophic high speed blowout. The wife has a set on her 4Runner too and she has one with a persistent slow leak as well.

So, Goodyear... :finger1:


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## snowklinger (Aug 30, 2011)

Here in CO they are finally supposedly enforcing passenger vehicle equipment laws, which basically requires you to have snow tires.

Modern snowtires actually out perform chains unless you are in deep doodoo, and even then, that's questionable at best. Chains turn your handling to shit.

Snowtire technology has radically evolved from where it was 15-20 years ago, the good ones work really, really well, Tirerack ftw.

People without snowtires need to stay off the road that takes the rest of us snowboarding. Period.

edit. I've recently had bad experience with Goodyear snow tires as well (they simply did not perform, gave zero confidence in weather), as opposed to amazing performances from Dunlop and General.


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

Get winter tires! it's a no brainer. Unless you do like 2 or 3x a yr and nver hunt for pow...

A single ditch episode costs more than a set of winters plus a ruined day. Getting yourself or others hurt... no price to that.

I got my winters super cheap. Used, but virtually brand new. Pirelli extreme ice control, with OEM alloys. Paid like $400 CAD. Cheap as hell.

Most of my winter kms are highway anyways, so i dont mind the loss. Handling is definitely better with summer. Winters are softer and the deep threading loses some dry grip; but i've seen a lot of cops on the highway lately.... so if i stick to the speed limit (or about +20kph) i will not skid one bit.


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## ItchEtrigR (Jan 1, 2012)

linvillegorge said:


> I'm currently running the Goodyear Silent Armors on my Tahoe and I'm on my 3rd set of them. Always loved them, but this is my last set of Goodyears. They claim they haven't changed anything, but bullshit. This set is wearing twice as fast as the last two, I've fought two persistent slow leaks and had one catastrophic high speed blowout. The wife has a set on her 4Runner too and she has one with a persistent slow leak as well.
> 
> So, Goodyear... :finger1:


Your slow leak is probably a valve, you can get them replaced it doesn't cost anything.


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## linvillegorge (Jul 6, 2009)

ItchEtrigR said:


> Your slow leak is probably a valve, you can get them replaced it doesn't cost anything.


already done

likely bad beads

Goodyear's solution is to sell me new tires at a prorated price. No thanks. I have no desire to have another set of shitty tires at a discounted price.


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## linvillegorge (Jul 6, 2009)

snowklinger said:


> Here in CO they are finally supposedly enforcing passenger vehicle equipment laws, which basically requires you to have snow tires.
> 
> Modern snowtires actually out perform chains unless you are in deep doodoo, and even then, that's questionable at best. Chains turn your handling to shit.
> 
> ...


The laws don't require specific snow tires, snow tires or m/s rated ties will suffice. 1/8" tread depth required, but if your tread is down to 1/8", replace those tires. They're bald.


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## Argo (Feb 25, 2010)

ItchEtrigR said:


> Nice, what make and model? What's your tread depth now that your replacing them?


Dodge 3500 mega cab 4×4....

Tires are just under 1/4 inch. I had a 3000lb slide in camper on it this summer for about 6000 miles and it ate them up pretty quick. 

I almost bought a different brand but these are some of the only oversized snow rated tires on the market and they have been great. I was looking at a few others but they would require aftermarket sipping.


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## tanscrazydaisy (Mar 11, 2013)

snowklinger said:


> Here in CO they are finally supposedly enforcing passenger vehicle equipment laws, which basically requires you to have snow tires.
> 
> Modern snowtires actually out perform chains unless you are in deep doodoo, and even then, that's questionable at best. Chains turn your handling to shit.
> 
> ...


As stated before, the new law is not the winter tire law of the Quebec province of Canada. It only encourages people to have minimal tread depth, and allows for use of chains & traction devices.

Chains can make the handling a little unstable because for a lot of people, it's only on the drive wheels on a FWD or RWD vehicle. The speed you're going isn't that fast, but a sharp turn can upset the balance of the car. The ride is crap though.

Chains help greatly over winter tires when it comes to braking down steep inclines. Chains (or studded tires) will grip better allowing the brakes to work. I've had Nokian Hakkapeliitta RSI's, and braking down snow covered hill (near 20% grade)... it's pretty scary.


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## KansasNoob (Feb 24, 2013)

I have had great luck with my Cooper AT's in the snow. They aren't snowflake rated but do better than BFG AT's which are. Lots of siping and a grippy compound really help. I wouldn't hesitate to try Cooper's winter car tires if I had a car, they're a great value. 

I got burned by Goodyears once, won't ever run them again. The "all terrain" SR-A's I had got 10 flats between the 4 of them and only made it 22.000 miles. Awful traction on top of it all. 

Neni, my current tires are at 28,000 miles, and should make it to 50,000 with plenty of tread. :hairy:


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## surfinsnow (Feb 4, 2010)

I'm finally switching to real winter tires this year. We have an SUV and it eats tires. We've always put all-season tires on it, but they tend to suck in real snow. This year I'm going with full-on winter tires (Bridgestone Blizzak) and switching them out in Spring. I have 18" wheels, so any tire is expensive, but I found them online for $125 per. Of course, then I have to pay to ship them and install them, but still works out cheaper.


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## linvillegorge (Jul 6, 2009)

KansasNoob said:


> I have had great luck with my Cooper AT's in the snow. They aren't snowflake rated but do better than BFG AT's which are. Lots of siping and a grippy compound really help. I wouldn't hesitate to try Cooper's winter car tires if I had a car, they're a great value.
> 
> I got burned by Goodyears once, won't ever run them again. The "all terrain" SR-A's I had got 10 flats between the 4 of them and only made it 22.000 miles. Awful traction on top of it all.
> 
> Neni, my current tires are at 28,000 miles, and should make it to 50,000 with plenty of tread. :hairy:


Not sure which Coopers you have, but I had a set of Zeon LTZ's that got great snow reviews and those were some of the worst tires I've ever tried to drove in the snow with. Downright dangerous. Great tires if you never see snow, but forget them if you do.


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## KansasNoob (Feb 24, 2013)

I have ATP's, the Zeons are more of a sport truck tire than an all terrain in my opinion. Next set, I'll either go with AT3's or the new ATW. AT3s are very similar to what I have now and it seems that a lot of locals run them. ATW has a snowflake rating and looks like a good choice even here, its pavement traction and wet traction is supposed to be amazing.


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## t21 (Dec 29, 2010)

I have a 96 Accord and i swap tires for winter(General Altimax artic) that lasted for four seasons. I ordered a new set last season for $280. This year i purchased a set for our SUV, same brand though it was more expensive($500)due to size. I like this tires cuz they work really well up here in Montana winter weather, they are not too expensive and last longer if you do not try to speed past 80 mph on dry roads.
To the OP, it is well worth it, though your gas mileage goes down a little bit, it is not a big deal especially if your gas prices are low. I travel about an hour to 3 hours depending where i want to go. I do not really worry about the gas mileage but more to other people driving out the snowy roads.


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## Rogue (Nov 29, 2014)

Thanks for everyone's input, this was actually really helpful. I drive a Mazda3 that I've been driving to the mountain the last couple of years. I've been in a few hairy situations but I've gotten myself out of it and avoided any issues. Some skill and some luck probably. It's amazing the vehicles one sees along the way up. I watched a Wrangler in front of me on the access road do a 180 and get stuck...

I have the winter driving knowledge/experience, but I'm thinking driving on something made for a particular condition would do wonders. Plus white knuckling it gets old fast haha. I'd rather feel safer and know I'm less likely to cause that dreaded block to the resort. 

I've read a few, but are they any other suggestions for what brand or type of winter tires to look for? Since I'm obviously looking into this for the first time, I don't know what will be best. I guess it's time to pick up a few extra shifts....



neni said:


> Winter tires are not only made just for snow... their rubber composition is in general optimized for cold temperatures. Breaking distance of summer tires in cold temps gets very bad, not only on icy or snowy roads, also in simlpy just wet n cold conditions. Their rubber composition just doesn't grip in cold temps. They are made to have grip in warm and even hot temps (when winter tires suck as they won't grip well in hot temps).
> 
> IMO, if you live somewhere where you get <7°C and precipitation - rain - winter tires are a should; if you get snow n ice, they're a must.


As usual, Neni explained it perfectly. Definitely makes sense. I drive to the mountain 1-3 xweek so most of my driving is still snow free, which is why chains in the past is sufficient. I don't even need them that often, depending on conditions. 



Deacon said:


> You would just get a different set of problems... :hairy:


100% Agree  



timmytard said:


> There's no substutute for knowing how to drive, _in the snow_
> 
> Having said that, snow tires are night & day compared to summer tires.
> 
> ...


Agree with knowing how to drive in the snow, luckily I do. If I lived near the mountain then I would consider studded but since I don't, hearing those grind the roads would drive me nuts. I'm just not a fan unless you actually live in an area with snow on a regular basis. 



wrathfuldeity said:


> geett'n to the hill and home in 1 piece without being in or the cause of a fucking line up for hours....priceless...worth every penny


This is true...


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## longboard16 (Dec 4, 2008)

Like them or not for years I used studded tires which work great in the snow. I had doubts about the effectiveness of the new stud less snow tires but About six years ago I tried Bridgestone Blizzak and to my surprise they worked just as good. Alway had my winter tire on spare set of rims so they are easy to switch. Also always carry chains but have not used then in probably two decades.

I get about four winters use out of a set of Blizzaks. My feeling is that while they cost extra I most likely, with a little luck, will not have to drop money on paying insurance deductible because of an accident and the ensuing headaches dealing with an accident.


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## Matty_B_Bop (Jan 27, 2015)

Rogue, what year and "trim" is your Mazda 3? 

click the link and put in your vehicle's info: http://www.tirerack.com/content/tirerack/desktop/en/winter_snow/packages.html

Choose the 15" packages. Choose the *General Altimax Arctic* or the *Firestone Winterforce* (best winter tires for your buck). 


I've used both of these specific snow tires and they are amazing. I like the Winterforce better for all out snow, but they are louder than the General's and not as great in the slush. I once drove 6-hours to Minneapolis in a whiteout blizzard with my winterforce tires on a sedan with not one ounce of worry. It was ironic when I saw all the 4x4 trucks on the side of the road, spun out, flipped, etc when I was just cruising. 

Another example: Last year I got plowed in on the street. I couldn't even open up my door. I cleared a spot for my exhaust, rocked back and forth a few times and got out with ease. These were in my General Altimax Arctic tires. So, like I said, both are great winter tires!



















if you get them with the steelies, which I recommend, you can have them shipped to your door all mounted and balanced ready to be installed. Do yourself a favor and get the steelies. Makes it SO much easier to switch tires between seasons. 

All said and done, you'll probably spend between $550-$650 for the tires and the steelies with shipping. Worth every penny when you're safe, can get anywhere at any time and know that you'll never be stranded to or from the mountain. Plus, you'll have them for 3+ seasons guaranteed. 


I guessed on your vehicle year, so the prices may not be accurate. But these are the tires/steelies you should be looking at. As I said, I've used both of these. I currently have the Altimax on my Golf TDI, and my gf got her Altimax in the mail waiting to be put on her Acura.


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## snowklinger (Aug 30, 2011)

Matty_B_Bop said:


> Rogue, what year and "trim" is your Mazda 3?
> 
> click the link and put in your vehicle's info: http://www.tirerack.com/content/tirerack/desktop/en/winter_snow/packages.html
> 
> ...


 +1 for generals, they typically sell out


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## rambob (Mar 5, 2011)

Studded Nokians on my Subie Ouback: 

Studded / Siped 35s on my Dodge Cummins:


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## Matty_B_Bop (Jan 27, 2015)

snowklinger said:


> Matty_B_Bop said:
> 
> 
> > Rogue, what year and "trim" is your Mazda 3?
> ...


Agreed. When I get snow tires, I try to get them in August or September. They sell out fast, especially the General Altimax and steelies


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## Bones (Feb 24, 2008)

Too many people think in terms of snow tires improving your traction in deep snow or so that you don't spin your tires when the light turns green. They do do that, but the real safety feature is the straightline traction for braking and the lateral traction to prevent skids. They improve those things even on dry pavement. Non-snow tire braking and skid control deteriorates below -7C even on dry pavement because their rubber gets hard.

If you live where it gets that cold, even if you don't get much snow, then snow tires help. And they make my all-seasons last that much longer


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## Rogue (Nov 29, 2014)

I live in the valley which means we RARELY get snow and when we do it's not a big deal (for me) The snow happens when I hit the mountain which is 30-45 mins depending on how low it gets. 

I'm looking at prices tonight and they aren't as awful as I thought. My issue is storage, I REALLY don't want a stack of tires inside year round. 

Some of the tires are cheaper than others, is there something specific to look for? I saw the ones you mentioned Matty. Are steelies just studs?

Ya, I was thinking about that, it would make my all-seasons last longer. Good point about the braking and lateral tractions. Those hairy situations I mentioned were lateral skids. I steered out of them, but I'd rather avoid that rush of adrenaline!


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## Argo (Feb 25, 2010)

"Steelies" are just a spare set of rims that are made of steel


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## t21 (Dec 29, 2010)

Rogue said:


> I live in the valley which means we RARELY get snow and when we do it's not a big deal (for me) The snow happens when I hit the mountain which is 30-45 mins depending on how low it gets.
> 
> I'm looking at prices tonight and they aren't as awful as I thought. My issue is storage, I REALLY don't want a stack of tires inside year round.
> 
> ...


Do you live in a apartment? if you do you might not have much of a choice unless you had one that has a small storage area outside your porch. Do you have a close friend with a garage that he/she would not mind storing your tires? I went with the General brand after reseaching snow tires that is within my budget. Tirerack rated the Altimax high for its performance and the reviews of users were enough for me to buy and try them out. I'm sold:happy: my daugther purchased a set for her Jetta last season.


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## Donutz (May 12, 2010)

Rogue said:


> I'm looking at prices tonight and they aren't as awful as I thought. My issue is storage, I REALLY don't want a stack of tires inside year round.



Up here, Kal Tire will store your off-season tires for you. They charge, of course, but it might be worth it. Don't know if there's an equivalent service offered in the US.


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## Matty_B_Bop (Jan 27, 2015)

Rogue said:


> I live in the valley which means we RARELY get snow and when we do it's not a big deal (for me) The snow happens when I hit the mountain which is 30-45 mins depending on how low it gets.
> 
> I'm looking at prices tonight and they aren't as awful as I thought. My issue is storage, I REALLY don't want a stack of tires inside year round.
> 
> ...


"Steelies" are the wheels the tires are mounted to. Like a rim that your current tires are on. 

The steel wheels I posted are great because the snow tires are already mounted to them which makes swapping between sets very easy. Plus, snow doesn't get in the very easily which keeps the balance of the wheels proper. It's also a recognizable wheel that can indicate to others that you're using snow tires. 

Storing them would suck if you don't have a garage, though. Still worth it, in my opinion. Do you have a basement?


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## Clayton Bigsby (Oct 23, 2012)

FWD (front wheel drive) with a good set of snow tires will get you up to any ski resort. 

I drove FWD for years up to BAKER, if you can make it up to BAKER, you can make it anywhere. We made a trip in my '83 Honda Civic wagon to HooDoo Oregon one year for a competition, we drove straight through from northern Washington it was around midnight and we had no clue where we were, but the pass we were on had 10-12" of fresh on it. My buddy was getting nervous and said that we should pull over and chain up, I looked at him and said "what are chains, I don't have stinking chains". The best part was passing everyone chaining up or locking in their hubs.

Craigslist is a great place to find tire on the cheap


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## tanscrazydaisy (Mar 11, 2013)

Argo said:


> "Steelies" are just a spare set of rims that are made of steel



Many cars come with steel wheels with hubcaps also


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## Peyto (Mar 21, 2012)

Lots of good advice here. It's generally stated around here that even the cheaper winter tires are better than a good all-season tire, but of course nothing can replace winter driving skills. 

Check your local craigslist - lots of people selling off sets of tires from cars they've sold. Do your due diligence and there are good deals to be had. I'm partial to the Michelin X-Ice because it seems to handle the best while still being a huge improvement in snow and ice performance. That being said the Blizzak seems to be the most popular winter tire in Canada. It's well priced and performs great so that's not surprising.


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## SkullAndXbones (Feb 24, 2014)

Rogue said:


> I REALLY don't want a stack of tires inside year round.


leave them outside. it's good yard art.


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## tanscrazydaisy (Mar 11, 2013)

SkullAndXbones said:


> leave them outside. it's good yard art.



And encourage UV degradation 

You can buy Tire Totes and/or a cover for a stack of them, made by Kurgo

http://www.kurgo.com/kurgo-categories/automotive-accessories/seasonal-tire-tote-4-pack/

http://www.kurgo.com/kurgo-categories/automotive-accessories/tire-garage/

When I had no garage, that was what I used


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## Bones (Feb 24, 2008)

Peyto said:


> Check your local craigslist - lots of people selling off sets of tires from cars they've sold. Do your due diligence and there are good deals to be had. I'm partial to the Michelin X-Ice because it seems to handle the best while still being a huge improvement in snow and ice performance. That being said the Blizzak seems to be the most popular winter tire in Canada. It's well priced and performs great so that's not surprising.


I've been buying used winter tires for years. Get a $2 tread gauge, know your car's bolt pattern and offset and away you go. Lots of people sell their snows when their lease ends for whatever they can get. There is usually 3 or 4 pages of ads around here.


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## mrpenguin (Nov 12, 2014)

In a word, yes.


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## SnowDogWax (Nov 8, 2013)

Peyto said:


> Lots of good advice here.
> 
> Ch I'm partial to the Michelin X-Ice because it seems to handle the best while still being a huge improvement in snow and ice performance. It's well priced and performs great so that's not surprising.


Just bought The Michelin X-Ice for my Ford Transit Van glade to hear your report on performance:eyetwitch2:





:hairy:


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## Phedder (Sep 13, 2014)

Question, are most skifield access roads in the US paved roads? All but 2 here in New Zealand are gravel, usually quite poorly maintained and get very bumpy towards the end of the season. Not many who goe to the resorts often enough drives FWDs.


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## Rogue (Nov 29, 2014)

t21 said:


> Do you live in a apartment? if you do you might not have much of a choice unless you had one that has a small storage area outside your porch. Do you have a close friend with a garage that he/she would not mind storing your tires? I went with the General brand after reseaching snow tires that is within my budget. Tirerack rated the Altimax high for its performance and the reviews of users were enough for me to buy and try them out. I'm sold:happy: my daugther purchased a set for her Jetta last season.


I was surprised how affordable the General Altimax Artics are. Yeah, I had some awesome friends I used to ride with but they divorced, so there goes my storage spot! I can put them in my extra bedroom I just....rather not lol 



Clayton Bigsby said:


> FWD (front wheel drive) with a good set of snow tires will get you up to any ski resort.
> 
> I drove FWD for years up to BAKER, if you can make it up to BAKER, you can make it anywhere. We made a trip in my '83 Honda Civic wagon to HooDoo Oregon one year for a competition, we drove straight through from northern Washington it was around midnight and we had no clue where we were, but the pass we were on had 10-12" of fresh on it. My buddy was getting nervous and said that we should pull over and chain up, I looked at him and said "what are chains, I don't have stinking chains". The best part was passing everyone chaining up or locking in their hubs.
> 
> Craigslist is a great place to find tire on the cheap


This is what I want to experience hahaha! I drove to Baker when it wasn't snowy (so sad) and I can't imagine getting up there in my car with slick roads and snow piled on the sides. It's so narrow and curvy. Seeing a car coming the opposite direction would be sketch lol 



Peyto said:


> Lots of good advice here. It's generally stated around here that even the cheaper winter tires are better than a good all-season tire, but of course nothing can replace winter driving skills.
> 
> Check your local craigslist - lots of people selling off sets of tires from cars they've sold. Do your due diligence and there are good deals to be had. I'm partial to the Michelin X-Ice because it seems to handle the best while still being a huge improvement in snow and ice performance. That being said the Blizzak seems to be the most popular winter tire in Canada. It's well priced and performs great so that's not surprising.


Good to know and good winter driving skills have kept me from getting snow tires thus far, but like everyone has pointed out, skills plus proper tires will make a significant difference. As much as I always hope for massive dumps on the mountain, I do get nervous knowing what I have to drive through to get there. The parking lot and access road usually are the bigger concern or someone going too slow and then I spin out getting started again. Sounds fun right? 



SkullAndXbones said:


> leave them outside. it's good yard art.


You always give the best advice lol 



Phedder said:


> Question, are most skifield access roads in the US paved roads? All but 2 here in New Zealand are gravel, usually quite poorly maintained and get very bumpy towards the end of the season. Not many who goe to the resorts often enough drives FWDs.


The ones I've been to are, but that's extremely limited experience. Where I live they plow and use gravel. 

Mazda dealership has snow tire deals going on with free storage. So I will see what they have to offer and prices. If that is the best deal for some of the tires mentioned, then I'll definitely go for it. Otherwise I'll keep looking around. 

So let me be clear, do steelies (lol) increase the price of a snow tire or it will be the same without them? 

I really appreciate everyone's input on this!!


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## Argo (Feb 25, 2010)

Ok, we have learned that your a natural blonde in this thread. Lol

Steelies will add $50 per tire because your buying a rim for each tire. You will eventually save money though because you just swap the whole rim/tire when it's fall/spring and don't have to pay for mounting and balancing.


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

Argo said:


> Ok, we have learned that your a natural blonde in this thread. Lol
> 
> Steelies will add $50 per tire because your buying a rim for each tire. You will eventually save money though because you just swap the whole rim/tire when it's fall/spring and don't have to pay for mounting and balancing.


Its worth to carefully compare prices... Funny enough, I found the full set of nice looking aluminium rims with tires for even some bucks cheaper than with steel rims at a big online retailer over here. It seems that they buy such huge stocks of alu sets, that the price for nice rims gets is very low.

I don't understand the issue ppl have with being reluctant to get proper tires cos one has to store one set n swap them twice a year... it's a stack which occupies 1m2 in the garage. Put them in the car: 1min. Let them put on the car by your local car tinkerer: 30min. Stack the set in the garage: 1min. That's such a little effort - hardly as much time as a wax job for your board takes... compared to the savety you gain on the road...


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## stickz (Feb 6, 2013)

Costco has blizzaks for a set of 4 for like $465 bucks.


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## Rogue (Nov 29, 2014)

neni said:


> I don't understand the issue ppl have with being reluctant to get proper tires cos one has to store one set n swap them twice a year... it's a stack which occupies 1m2 in the garage.


I don't have a garage yo, that's why this is an issue to begin with. I live in an apartment and I would have to store them in my extra bedroom. 



Argo said:


> Ok, we have learned that your a natural blonde in this thread. Lol
> 
> Steelies will add $50 per tire because your buying a rim for each tire. You will eventually save money though because you just swap the whole rim/tire when it's fall/spring and don't have to pay for mounting and balancing.


Well if having no experience with snow tires makes me blonde, then indeed I am  I assumed they would be more expensive but just wanted to clarify with all the experts here


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

Rogue said:


> I don't have a garage yo, that's why this is an issue to begin with. I live in an apartment and I would have to store them in my extra bedroom.


Ask your mechanic or tire seller. Here, they store your sets for you for a hand full bucks.


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## Bones (Feb 24, 2008)

Rogue said:


> I
> So let me be clear, do steelies (lol) increase the price of a snow tire or it will be the same without them?


If you hit up craigslist or junkyards, you can find rims for under $20 each. The whole point of steelies is to save you the cost of mounting and balancing tires twice a year. Even at Wally world, that's $20 per tire, so steelies pay for themselves in the first year. I also save a few $$ on my insurance having winter tires. Winter rims don't have to be steelies, they just have to be cheap.

Plus, you save your nicer rims from all the road salt and you can put your snow tires on whenever you like.

Around here, most places that mount tires offer seasonal storage.


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## KansasNoob (Feb 24, 2013)

Rogue said:


> I don't have a garage yo, that's why this is an issue to begin with. I live in an apartment and I would have to store them in my extra bedroom.
> 
> 
> 
> Well if having no experience with snow tires makes me blonde, then indeed I am  I assumed they would be more expensive but just wanted to clarify with all the experts here


My advice would be, sell your coffee table or whatever. Then stack the tires in stacks of 2, and put a piece of plywood on top. Boom! Art. For extra cool points, use a glass top rather than wood. I would definitely recommend having a spare set of wheels over swapping the tires back and forth, as that's hard on your tires and around here $80 to remount/balance.


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## emt.elikahan (Mar 12, 2014)

Rogue said:


> I don't have a garage yo, that's why this is an issue to begin with. I live in an apartment and I would have to store them in my extra bedroom.


I'm in a similar predicament.. Except my apartment is a one bedroom :eyetwitch2: So spare wheels as bedside tables?


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

neni said:


> I put two seasons on my winter tires and then they're done. That's only abt 13'000miles :eyetwitch2:





KansasNoob said:


> Neni, my current tires are at 28,000 miles, and should make it to 50,000 with plenty of tread. :hairy:



I'm doing something wrong... :embarrased1:


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## ItchEtrigR (Jan 1, 2012)

neni said:


> I'm doing something wrong... :embarrased1:


Where is the wear on tires?


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

ItchEtrigR said:


> Where is the wear on tires?


IIRC the front ones were done, more chewed up at the outer sides. Hind ones could have coped another season.


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## Peyto (Mar 21, 2012)

neni said:


> IIRC the front ones were done, more chewed up at the outer sides. Hind ones could have coped another season.


If the tread was worn down more on the outer sides (shoulders) of the tires there's a good chance they were under-inflated.


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## bksdds (Jul 2, 2015)

Rogue said:


> I don't have a garage yo, that's why this is an issue to begin with. I live in an apartment and I would have to store them in my extra bedroom.
> 
> 
> 
> Well if having no experience with snow tires makes me blonde, then indeed I am  I assumed they would be more expensive but just wanted to clarify with all the experts here


Whats your local storage prices? If you live in the suburbs the closet sized storage spaces might be pretty cheap (15$ cheap).

Do you have a couch up against the wall? Pull that sucker away from the wall, put down some cardboard landing strips over the rug, carefully roll your swapped out tires behind it, you could throw a spare blanket over them so they don't scuff the wall when resting against it (have spare paint ready?), and if you don't have a spare blanket thrift store trip time. I did this with my dirt bike before I sold it (I miss you and I'm sorry :angry1.

What tires have you picked?


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## Bones (Feb 24, 2008)

Peyto said:


> If the tread was worn down more on the outer sides (shoulders) of the tires there's a good chance they were under-inflated.


Worn on the edges = under inflated. Worn in the middle = over inflated.

Your alignment could be off as well.

2 seasons is far too little driving. I use between 2 and 3/32's in a typical 4 month winter (Dec 1-Apr.1) Most snows start with about 11-13 when new and the legal wear bar shows up at 2. Lots of snows have another wear bar at 4/32's and you really don't have any traction in winter below that. 

So about 7-9/32 's is the usable life of the tire


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## Angler (Nov 28, 2010)

I never understood why people would want to cheap out on tires. Winter = snow tires, summer = summer tires. It's that simple. You are driving 50 to 70 mph and the only thing preventing you from crashing the piece of metal you are in is the 4 shoes on each corner of the car. Why would you take that chance? Never made sense to me....


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## SkullAndXbones (Feb 24, 2014)

Rogue said:


> You always give the best advice lol


hey i'm just glad i can help


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## snowklinger (Aug 30, 2011)

neni said:


> I'm doing something wrong... :embarrased1:


Doubt it. Lot of variables at play.

How many miles/year.

Higher performing snowtires have a softer tread compound that wears quicker.

Tire rotation/awd/fwd. (Some "awd" is 99% 2wd then it kicks in an extra wheel or 2 for traction control, as opposed to say subys which wear tires pretty evenly)

Weight of vehicle.


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## kosmoz (Dec 27, 2013)

Originally tires comes with like 9mm of thread, I get rid of them after two or three winters, when the thread depth reaches 4,5-5mm. 

Soft compound tires, which are great on snow or ice, are shit everywhere else, they fall behind on dry or wet asphalt, they wear quicker, car is not as stable, as it is with hard compound. 

The best performance is from hard compound studded tires, but they are not allowed in all countries, that's why I don't buy them anymore, because from time to time I travel to western europe and studded tires are not allowed there. The only drawback of studded tires is higher price, noise and higher fuel consumption. With sth better than toyota, noise is not a problem 

Speaking about noise, directional tires with V shaped thread tends to be noisier than assimetrical, same goes with summer tires.

Neni, I would strongly reccomend for you Nokian D4 tires, they are fantastic. And get your wheels alligned, watch tire pressure at least once a month or after every time temperatures drops a lot. I remember you having a Volvo XC60 D5, it's heavy, you must have had soft compound tires and drove lots of highway, which literally eats soft tires on high speeds.


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## tanscrazydaisy (Mar 11, 2013)

kosmoz said:


> Neni, I would strongly reccomend for you Nokian D4 tires, they are fantastic. And get your wheels alligned, watch tire pressure at least once a month or after every time temperatures drops a lot. I remember you having a Volvo XC60 D5, it's heavy, you must have had soft compound tires and drove lots of highway, which literally eats soft tires on high speeds.


WR D4 likely will not work with the XC60, tire size issues. V60, probably the D4 would be appropriate.

Probably stuck with a "SUV" offering from Nokian, like the WR G3 SUV


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## hightyme (Mar 11, 2014)

Bridgestone Blizzak's are way to go


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## aiidoneus (Apr 7, 2011)

Yes. Why? Because it's 2015 and Canada. Haha (hope the Canadians get that joke). Considering I drive regularly on the deadliest road in Canada and many of the runners up for worst. Snow tires are a must.

This is from the past weekend. Where everyone with all seasons is stuck or having a bad day. Even those with 4WD and AWD.

Me? With Nokian Hakkapalitta 8 studded, it's just another Sunday drive home from riding pow.


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## tanscrazydaisy (Mar 11, 2013)

aiidoneus said:


> Yes. Why? Because it's 2015 and Canada. Haha (hope the Canadians get that joke). Considering I drive regularly on the deadliest road in Canada and many of the runners up for worst. Snow tires are a must.
> 
> This is from the past weekend. Where everyone with all seasons is stuck or having a bad day. Even those with 4WD and AWD.
> 
> Me? With Nokian Hakkapalitta 8 studded, it's just another Sunday drive home from riding pow.


What's that, a VW Tiguan you have?


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## aiidoneus (Apr 7, 2011)

tanscrazydaisy said:


> What's that, a VW Tiguan you have?


It is, I'd prefer a Subaru Forester XT. However, I am not a fan of auto and even less so of a CVT. But sadly in Canada, most AWD options are auto only. 

The current plan is saving for a Tundra to haul a sled. But for now I am stuck using my legs like a sucker


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

kosmoz said:


> Neni, I would strongly reccomend for you Nokian D4 tires, they are fantastic. And get your wheels alligned, watch tire pressure at least once a month or after every time temperatures drops a lot. I remember you having a Volvo XC60 D5, it's heavy, you must have had soft compound tires and drove lots of highway, which literally eats soft tires on high speeds.


The XC60 only just enters his 2nd season, don't know yet if those tires get chewed equally quick.
The ones I had only for ~13000miles were on the Rav4, not a heavy weight... Goodyear Cross Contact or sumthing. Got Continental now. Yeah... the Rav4 is driven a lot on highways, not high but quick speed . K, gonna montitor air pressure more often. 
Thanks for the hints, guys!


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## SnowDogWax (Nov 8, 2013)

Bought the X-Ice Xi3 Michelin's & chains for my front wheel Van .. all the car forums rated them in the top 3. Has anybody used the X-Ice.








:eyetwitch2:


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## kosmoz (Dec 27, 2013)

aiidoneus said:


> Yes. Why? Because it's 2015 and Canada. Haha (hope the Canadians get that joke). Considering I drive regularly on the deadliest road in Canada and many of the runners up for worst. Snow tires are a must.
> 
> This is from the past weekend. Where everyone with all seasons is stuck or having a bad day. Even those with 4WD and AWD.
> 
> Me? With *Nokian Hakkapalitta 8 studded*, it's just another Sunday drive home from riding pow.


Those are one of, if not the best performing winter tires on earth :notworthy:


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## poutanen (Dec 22, 2011)

Another vote for snow tires here. I drive the same roads as Aiidoneus and can confirm that Nokia Hakkas are the shit! Haven't tried studded yet but finally got approval for snows on the work truck, so will try studded for sure.

We get a lot of ice/hardpack on our roads.

Other than the cost of a second set of rims, snows aren't much more expensive to run than all seasons, and when you can run true summer performance tires in the summer, and true winter tires in the winter, the overall difference in traction is significant. Even one accident would more than pay for the extra rims and slightly higher tire wear. Even if fully insured your premium increase of a few hundred dollars would negate any perceived financial benefits of staying on all seasons.

All seasons are poop... :hairy:


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## Rogue (Nov 29, 2014)

Called Mazda (got an email about tires/storage) They priced me without steelies:
Nokia WRG2 - just under 600 He recommended these and said they are all weather/all year with mile warranty
Blizzaks Altimax - 670
Michelin Icex - 695
General - 620 He said the Generals don't last as long and would steer me away from them

I looked at the tirerack.com again and adding steelies (the basic version) it is making me include "custom TPMS sensors" for $220 wtf?

More research/calls will be done today...


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## f00bar (Mar 6, 2014)

Costco has Bridgestone Blizzaks


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## kosmoz (Dec 27, 2013)

poutanen said:


> Another vote for snow tires here. I drive the same roads as Aiidoneus and can confirm that Nokia Hakkas are the shit! Haven't tried studded yet but finally got approval for snows on the work truck, so will try studded for sure.
> 
> We get a lot of ice/hardpack on our roads.
> 
> ...


it's even cheaper to run summer and winter tires, because summer tires will last longer and perform better than all seasons, which are softer and wears down faster than dedicated summer tires.


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## Peyto (Mar 21, 2012)

Rogue said:


> Called Mazda (got an email about tires/storage) They priced me without steelies:
> Nokia WRG2 - just under 600 He recommended these and said they are all weather/all year with mile warranty
> Blizzaks Altimax - 670
> Michelin Icex - 695
> ...


All weather tires like the WRG2s are a much better alternative to all-seasons if you live in a place that sees real winters and only run one set of tires, but they should not be confused with a real winter tire. 

My opinion is that you should go for the Michelins if you can get them for basically the same price as Blizzaks and Generals.


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## poutanen (Dec 22, 2011)

kosmoz said:


> it's even cheaper to run summer and winter tires, because summer tires will last longer and perform better than all seasons, which are softer and wears down faster than dedicated summer tires.


Most summer tires I've run have about half the life of a typical all season, but that's cause I usually run "Ultra High Performance" class summers. Most all-seasons are much harder than the high performance summer tires.

Best thing about good summer tires is their rain performance is much better than most all seasons.


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## surfinsnow (Feb 4, 2010)

DAMMIT! Just came from my mechanic/tire guy. OEM tires on the SUV were Bridgestones (don't remember the model, but they were M&S tires). Best tires ever. Damn car just EATS tires though, even with proper rotating, so I've experimented with a couple of quality brands that weren't quite so expensive. Some Coopers, before that a set of Toyos. But they have all be All Season. Never had a problem even on crazy New England snowboard adventures, but I really wanted to go for the Blizzaks this season hearing all of the raves. Then the news broke...wife's parent's sick in Florida. I MUST replace the tires, got minimal tread left. Car guy says I'd be stupid to spend the money on Blizzaks then drive to Florida. I'd just waste the tread. So it looks like I'm back to All Seasons, and out another 800 clams.


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## poutanen (Dec 22, 2011)

I've had good luck with used tires before, I know there are horror stories out there but I've had good luck. Tires on rims for $400 with most of their tread left...


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## surfinsnow (Feb 4, 2010)

Oh, I had a deal on Blizzaks through PayPal of all places. $125 per for 235/60R18's. That a great deal! But then I had to ship them -- $60; Install them, with balancing, alignment, valve stems (pressure sensors), blah blah. It sounded like a great deal, but worked out to be almost the same price as having my mechanic do it. AND, since my Cooper's didn't make the 60k rating, I'm getting them pro-rated for 20k miles. It'll still suck, I won't know the final price until the manufacturer tells me the warranty value, but I have an awesome mechanic. I don't have to pay for them until he sends back my old tires and gets a warranty adjustment.


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## Matty_B_Bop (Jan 27, 2015)

Rogue said:


> Called Mazda (got an email about tires/storage) They priced me without steelies:
> Nokia WRG2 - just under 600 He recommended these and said they are all weather/all year with mile warranty
> Blizzaks Altimax - 670
> Michelin Icex - 695
> ...


The TPMS sensors are a tire pressure monitoring system that your car uses to let you know your tires are low on air. 

I'd call tire rack because you don't NEED them. My car has TPMS and didn't get them on my snow tires because the extra cost is unnecessary. 

Lastly, do your own independent research on tire rack. Read the reviews, compare each the tires side by side, etc. Just because a tire is more expensive than the other doesn't mean it's better.


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## Opunui (Mar 30, 2015)

It's not that you don't need the TPMS sensor, but they are tied into your ECM and will throw a check engine light if you don't have them. If you get a safety check and that light is on in the dashboard they could fail you in some places.


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## Rogue (Nov 29, 2014)

f00bar said:


> Costco has Bridgestone Blizzaks



$461...sounds much better. No steelies and would require storage inside....hmmm under the bed or cat tree for the furball? Lol 

I just bought new tires in spring, I wish I had thought of snow tires then and bought accordingly.

After a crappy last season its easy to forget the stress and hazard of mountain snow driving.

To be continued...


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

Rogue said:


> $461...sounds much better. No steelies and would require storage inside....hmmm under the bed or cat tree for the furball? Lol


Stack them, put a plate on them and use it as a bar table? Maybe on a balcony? (The rubber is bit smelly...)


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## Peyto (Mar 21, 2012)

Opunui said:


> It's not that you don't need the TPMS sensor, but they are tied into your ECM and will throw a check engine light if you don't have them. If you get a safety check and that light is on in the dashboard they could fail you in some places.


I could be wrong but in all the cars I've been in if you don't have TPMS sensors it throws a specific TPMS light, not a check engine light. 

I don't have sensors in my summer tires, but do make a habit of looking at my tires every couple times I enter the car. The TPMS light on the dash annoyed me for about a week and then I completely forgot about it, but if it does bug you just put some electrical tape over the light on the dash.


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## surfinsnow (Feb 4, 2010)

neni said:


> (The rubber is bit smelly...)


That's what she said.:hairy:


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## Deacon (Mar 2, 2013)

surfinsnow said:


> That's what she said.:hairy:


/thread:facepalm3:


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## SkullAndXbones (Feb 24, 2014)

neni said:


> Stack them, put a plate on them and use it as a bar table? Maybe on a balcony? (The rubber is bit smelly...)


better yet, put a bunch of ice inside them and stick a beer keg in the middle


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## stickz (Feb 6, 2013)

I'm going on 1700 mile round trip vacation for xmas from WA to UT. Think I should get my winter tires before or after that long road trip? I'm getting blizzaks


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## bksdds (Jul 2, 2015)

Peyto said:


> I could be wrong but in all the cars I've been in if you don't have TPMS sensors it throws a specific TPMS light, not a check engine light.
> 
> I don't have sensors in my summer tires, but do make a habit of looking at my tires every couple times I enter the car. The TPMS light on the dash annoyed me for about a week and then I completely forgot about it, but if it does bug you just put some electrical tape over the light on the dash.


I agree it will be a TPMS light and not a check engine light. Instead of tape you can remove the TPMS fuse from the box. Put that in a ziplock bag on the fridge with a note to install when you change back. 

Rogue you can deselect the TPMS sensors on tirerack. Be careful of tirerack and authorized installers trying to up sell you with TPMS kits (new ones and rebuilds). Last time I checked there is no law requiring you to have TPMS sensors in your second/winter set if your cars stock tires came with them. Plus ask the dealer how much they charge for programming the new TPMS to your car. For me they quoted over 100$. I'd rather use the 2$ tool until I make the switch back.


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## Mustang150 (Feb 23, 2015)

stickz said:


> I'm going on 1700 mile round trip vacation for xmas from WA to UT. Think I should get my winter tires before or after that long road trip? I'm getting blizzaks


All depends if you think your going to encounter enough snow to need them. But if you have a second set of rims for your car, get them mounted and then switch between sets when/if snow is expected. Snow tires have a shorter life then most all-season/summer tires so being able to easily swap between is nice.


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## aiidoneus (Apr 7, 2011)

poutanen said:


> Even if fully insured your premium increase of a few hundred dollars would negate any perceived financial benefits of staying on all seasons.
> 
> All seasons are poop... :hairy:


Check with your insurance too, you might get a discount if you let them know you have winters.


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## Triple8Sol (Nov 24, 2008)

Do you absolutely need snow tires? Of course not, but if you can afford it, it's clearly the way to go, regardless of whether you have FWD/RWD or even AWD. It's not just an issue of the tread pattern or additional sipes, but mainly the rubber compound, as Winter tires will still provide grip in freezing temps whereas non Winter tires turn into bricks. In general, even the most budget snow tire will outperform the best all-season in those conditions. Obviously it doesn't give you license to drive like a jackass, you still want to drive like you're not an idiot. I run snow tires on all my AWD vehicles just for the added piece of mind.


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## Opunui (Mar 30, 2015)

Whats the price of a lawsuit?????


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## rambob (Mar 5, 2011)

kosmoz said:


> Those are one of, if not the best performing winter tires on earth :notworthy:


Thats what my Subie Outback rolls on in the winter. Best snow tire for cars imo


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## Rogue (Nov 29, 2014)

I've gone back and forth on this for awhile as the cost really isn't in my budget and I'm hoping to be in school next year, so I won't be going up nearly as often. I'd like to think I'll still ride, but not sure I'll even get a season pass. Which means this year I plan on being up as much as possible. Plus instructing Wednesday nights I'll be coming home in the dark and worrying about unchaining in the dark on the side of the mountain is not appealing. 

Finally bit the bullet and got some Blizzaks from Costco, they go on early next week. Rims are another cost I can't justify all together. Long term it saves, but fuck unless I find some used ones, brand new rims aren't happening. Maybe in the spring I'll find some so when they take them off they can throw the rims on for next year. Then I can swap out as needed. 

I appreciate everyone's input and shared experiences. I swear the more time I spend on here the more money I spend on snowboard related items


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## Matty_B_Bop (Jan 27, 2015)

Glad you got snow tires. 

Mind if I ask how much you paid at Costco for the blizzaks? I just wanna make sure you didn't get anally destroyed.


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## Rogue (Nov 29, 2014)

Matty_B_Bop said:


> Glad you got snow tires.
> 
> Mind if I ask how much you paid at Costco for the blizzaks? I just wanna make sure you didn't get anally destroyed.


$461 + $14/tire install fee = $517 So really not bad IMO, but adding rims on top is too much when I'm saving for school, Salt Lake trip, and traveling locally this season and all the other things that add up. 



aiidoneus said:


> Check with your insurance too, you might get a discount if you let them know you have winters.


Good idea!


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## tanscrazydaisy (Mar 11, 2013)

aiidoneus said:


> Check with your insurance too, you might get a discount if you let them know you have winters.



I don't think Progressive cares


Sent from my iPhone. There may be horrible grammar and misspelling involved


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## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

you can find new tires online, free shipping and unmounted at about 1/2-1/3 off and then find a place that mount them on some spare rims for 20-25 per tire.


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## Bellasnow (Nov 21, 2015)

I got 100$ off my insurance with winter tires.


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## highme (Dec 2, 2012)

Rogue said:


> Finally bit the bullet and got some Blizzaks from Costco, they go on early next week. Rims are another cost I can't justify all together. Long term it saves, but fuck unless I find some used ones, brand new rims aren't happening. Maybe in the spring I'll find some so when they take them off they can throw the rims on for next year. Then I can swap out as needed.


What do you drive? I am more than happy to help track down some cheap winter wheels so you can easily swap them back & forth if you so desire.


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## surfinsnow (Feb 4, 2010)

I wound up with some hi-end all seasons. I wanted snows, and my car guy they'd make a huge difference, but I had to drive to Florida. He said I'd destroy the snows, so just get the good all-seasons. I've never had snows on the SUV, and never had an issue. Even driving rental SUVs through the Tahoe passes in raging blizzards, it's been okay as long as you don't drive like as asshole. If I can drive the Carson Pass in a big snowstorm, Vermont really isn't a problem.


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## Rogue (Nov 29, 2014)

highme said:


> What do you drive? I am more than happy to help track down some cheap winter wheels so you can easily swap them back & forth if you so desire.


205/55/16 mazda3 Went to costco to have them put on yesterday and the guy said I needed an appointment. Really pissed me off BC the email said I don't need one and none of the other times I had been there did they say that. So I have some time to find a better deal or cheap rims at least. Most of the tires/rims on Craig's list were close to mine but not exact unfortunately


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## Matty_B_Bop (Jan 27, 2015)

Have you looked at Tirerack or called them at all? 

Seriously, the General Altimax are like $68/tire. I have two sets of them, and had them on 3 cars now. I wouldn't be steering you wrong. 

If someone here can find a cheap set of steelies on Craigslist for you, like the poster above is willing to do, you're set. 

Don't buy them at Costco. Stop it. Just stop.


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## emt.elikahan (Mar 12, 2014)

Matty_B_Bop said:


> Have you looked at Tirerack or called them at all?
> 
> Seriously, the General Altimax are like $68/tire.


Yeah, I just got a set of them for less than 300 shipped. And they came next day!


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## bksdds (Jul 2, 2015)

Rogue said:


> 205/55/16 mazda3 Went to costco to have them put on yesterday and the guy said I needed an appointment. Really pissed me off BC the email said I don't need one and none of the other times I had been there did they say that. So I have some time to find a better deal or cheap rims at least. Most of the tires/rims on Craig's list were close to mine but not exact unfortunately


If you haven't bought tires yet. Tirerack is having their black friday deal.


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## Argo (Feb 25, 2010)

I just priced new tires and rims on tire rack for my wife's car and they were like 600. Similar size too.


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## boarderaholic (Aug 13, 2007)

Tirerack is great. A bunch of the Subaru guys I know used to order their tires from them because of the phenomenal pricing, as well as great service. It's just too bad the Canadian dollar has tanked now. =(


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## Matty_B_Bop (Jan 27, 2015)

bksdds said:


> Rogue said:
> 
> 
> > 205/55/16 mazda3 Went to costco to have them put on yesterday and the guy said I needed an appointment. Really pissed me off BC the email said I don't need one and none of the other times I had been there did they say that. So I have some time to find a better deal or cheap rims at least. Most of the tires/rims on Craig's list were close to mine but not exact unfortunately
> ...


What's the Black Friday deal? I just visited their site (from my phone) and didn't see. In curious since I just bought winter tires from there and maybe I can get some dough back


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## Rogue (Nov 29, 2014)

Argo said:


> I just priced new tires and rims on tire rack for my wife's car and they were like 600. Similar size too.


Where? 



bksdds said:


> If you haven't bought tires yet. Tirerack is having their black friday deal.


I just went there and its 85/tire plus 16/tire to ship for general altimax


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## say chi sin lo (Oct 15, 2009)

Rogue said:


> 205/55/16 mazda3 Went to costco to have them put on yesterday and the guy said I needed an appointment. Really pissed me off BC the email said I don't need one and none of the other times I had been there did they say that. So I have some time to find a better deal or cheap rims at least. Most of the tires/rims on Craig's list were close to mine but not exact unfortunately


I had a 2004 Mazda 3s, still has it at 130,000 miles, runs like an absolute tank with zero mechanical issues. But I did spin out on all-season Falken tires before.

Then bought a 2009 Mazdaspeed 3, remember spinning out, got me some Dunlop Wintersport 3D and well worth it. Now I can run a dedicated summer set without worrying about turning the car into a hockey puck. (But snow tires drives like gummy bears in the dry/warm though)


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## Deacon (Mar 2, 2013)

Rogue said:


> Where?
> 
> 
> 
> I just went there and its 85/tire plus 16/tire to ship for general altimax


Yeah, you have an expensive size. You might want to call them if you haven't, they might be able to reco a size that's suitable but less expensive.


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## highme (Dec 2, 2012)

Rogue said:


> 205/55/16 mazda3 Went to costco to have them put on yesterday and the guy said I needed an appointment. Really pissed me off BC the email said I don't need one and none of the other times I had been there did they say that. So I have some time to find a better deal or cheap rims at least. Most of the tires/rims on Craig's list were close to mine but not exact unfortunately


If it's worth your time/money to drive to Turner, there are these in your size for $100. They're a little too small for what we need on my wife's car (215/55) otherwise I would have already bought them. https://salem.craigslist.org/wto/5309734280.html 

Also, if you're on the south end of town (or don't mind driving to Tualatin/Sherwood) one of my best friends owns the Meineke out there and can mount & balance anything for pretty cheap. 

Here's another good option --> wheels & tires for $220 https://portland.craigslist.org/mlt/wto/5327630344.html


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## Rogue (Nov 29, 2014)

highme said:


> If it's worth your time/money to drive to Turner, there are these in your size for $100. They're a little too small for what we need on my wife's car (215/55) otherwise I would have already bought them. https://salem.craigslist.org/wto/5309734280.html
> 
> Also, if you're on the south end of town (or don't mind driving to Tualatin/Sherwood) one of my best friends owns the Meineke out there and can mount & balance anything for pretty cheap.
> 
> Here's another good option --> wheels & tires for $220 https://portland.craigslist.org/mlt/wto/5327630344.html


And the bottom link you sent, you don't think they are too worn ? I obviously have no idea. That they'd work for this winter? It would be a way better deal considering I don't for sure know if I'll even use them next season or not!


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## tanscrazydaisy (Mar 11, 2013)

Rogue said:


> And the bottom link you sent, you don't think they are too worn ? I obviously have no idea. That they'd work for this winter? It would be a way better deal considering I don't for sure know if I'll even use them next season or not!


they are about 1/2 worn, maybe a little more.


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## bksdds (Jul 2, 2015)

Rogue said:


> And the bottom link you sent, you don't think they are too worn ? I obviously have no idea. That they'd work for this winter? It would be a way better deal considering I don't for sure know if I'll even use them next season or not!


6/32 is still good, but I would be more worried about the condition of the rubber. Ad says they came off 2009 vehicle, but doesn't mention the tire date code. I don't see any dry rotting/cracks from the pics so thats a good sign. Good deal worth checking out in my opinion.

Some clicking and math below:
-205/60/16 - General Altimax Arctic 76$ per for a total of $304.40. Sit a little taller and 1mph faster than gauge.
Or 
-205/60/15 - General Altimax Arctic 70.10$ per for a total of $280.40. Speed gauge 0.1 mph slower.
-15" and 16" steel rims for $212 and $248.
So you're looking at around $500. The initial cost is high but after that it isn't so bad. Tirerack offers paypal payment plan. I've almost considered trying it but I always just end up paying it all up front.

Here are all the special offers.


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## Argo (Feb 25, 2010)

Rogue said:


> And the bottom link you sent, you don't think they are too worn ? I obviously have no idea. That they'd work for this winter? It would be a way better deal considering I don't for sure know if I'll even use them next season or not!


Yeah, those def have a season on them if the other 3 tires look as good as that one. 

My wife went to a shop in town, local shop and not a bigger retailer.... they tried to fuck her. He studded tires have half tread and the summer tires are like 2 months old with maybe 1500 miles on them. They tried to get her to buy a $900 set of winter tires and then said she would need new summer tires too when the time came. She straight up told the guy to fuck himself :finger1: and give her the car back. She was super pissed because they always try to screw her if I am not there. She hates when people do that shit 

WTF are these people smokin these days(yeah I know its legal here now) still trying to scam people out of money with bullshit like that. Meanwhile she wasted 3 hours there, that is what really pissed her off. 

I have to go take care of it now. 

I was looking at new ones thinking that maybe they were right about them but when I got home today I measured them and they are still deep with tread.


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## bksdds (Jul 2, 2015)

Some frown upon it, but I drive my tires down to 2/32 or 1/32. I hear ya on tire places trying to take advantage of women. They tried to sell TPMS rebuild kits (2 year old new car) for 35$ per when the ex took my car in. 

:finger1:<---My same reaction to the whole situation.


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## Bones (Feb 24, 2008)

Rogue said:


> And the bottom link you sent, you don't think they are too worn ? I obviously have no idea. That they'd work for this winter? It would be a way better deal considering I don't for sure know if I'll even use them next season or not!


Buy yourself a tire gauge ($2-$3) and google the tire specs.

You can see the wear bar between the treads in lower right of the pic. Definitely not flush with the tread, so there is some life left. 2/32's over the wear bar should get you thru a season. If there is only one season left, offer $150 and see. You'd get a season and then have rims for next year


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## Rogue (Nov 29, 2014)

Bones said:


> Buy yourself a tire gauge ($2-$3) and google the tire specs.
> 
> You can see the wear bar between the treads in lower right of the pic. Definitely not flush with the tread, so there is some life left. 2/32's over the wear bar should get you thru a season. If there is only one season left, offer $150 and see. You'd get a season and then have rims for next year


That's not bad then if I can't go next season I won't be out nearly as much money. Hmmmm



Argo said:


> Yeah, those def have a season on them if the other 3 tires look as good as that one.
> 
> My wife went to a shop in town, local shop and not a bigger retailer.... they tried to fuck her. He studded tires have half tread and the summer tires are like 2 months old with maybe 1500 miles on them. They tried to get her to buy a $900 set of winter tires and then said she would need new summer tires too when the time came. She straight up told the guy to fuck himself :finger1: and give her the car back. She was super pissed because they always try to screw her if I am not there. She hates when people do that shit
> 
> ...


Makes me so mad I always have to watch out for that bullshit. They want to change the belt on my car for $183!!! The belt from OEM is $60 according to them so labor is 120??? No way!!! 
One tire place quoted me over 900 for rims and tires today, so stupid. I hate she wasted all that time and went through that.


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## Bones (Feb 24, 2008)

Rogue said:


> They want to change the belt on my car for $183!!! The belt from OEM is $60 according to them so labor is 120???


Well, lots of places charge $100-$120/hr with a 1 hour minimum and mark up the parts 30%. $183 is not so much a ripoff as just an expensive shop.


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## Argo (Feb 25, 2010)

Bones said:


> Well, lots of places charge $100-$120/hr with a 1 hour minimum and mark up the parts 30%. $183 is not so much a ripoff as just an expensive shop.


I agree. I just use the dealership for my dodge. These days the rates are competitive and you get a factory warranty coverage on any work done. There are also other benefits of a good relationship with a factory dealer too. I have 120k miles on my truck and they replaced all of my front ball joints for free last week since they made a fair assumption that they went bad a while ago. That doesn't just happen. Free alignment with that too. I used to do all my own work but now I try to outweigh the cost vs time scale. If they can do something in 2 hours that would take me 6 hours, since they have all the tools, I just let them do it. It not worth my 6 hours. I would rather pay the $200. On the other hand of I know I have the tools and can complete it in a similar amount of time, I just do it... oil change, bake job, shock swap or tire rotation for instance


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## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

The daughter has learned to go in, knowing her shit, if a new place she will act coy and play with them... but eventually tells them what she wants or looking for and if they can help her out....(whether with skis/boards/dh bikes or her blacked out audi wagon) If they give her some ridiculous quote or bs...she'll call them on the shit...while making a little scene and start right in on the low and inside. If they won't play, she'll walk right out. Often she gets amazing deals...and she will generally not accept anything less. She is relatively cute and funny...but with a personality of a bulldog. Its pretty damm funny to watch her work it.


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## snowklinger (Aug 30, 2011)

wrathfuldeity said:


> The daughter has learned to go in, knowing her shit, if a new place she will act coy and play with them... but eventually tells them what she wants or looking for and if they can help her out....(whether with skis/boards/dh bikes or her blacked out audi wagon) If they give her some ridiculous quote or bs...she'll call them on the shit...while making a little scene and start right in on the low and inside. If they won't play, she'll walk right out. Often she gets amazing deals...and she will generally not accept anything less. She is relatively cute and funny...but with a personality of a bulldog. Its pretty damm funny to watch her work it.


At least ur not biased. *wink


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## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

snowklinger said:


> At least ur not biased. *wink


yea not in the slightest...however as her dad, she has saved me lots of money and time...I used to take her to Home Depot with me...got waaay better service with her in tow...

However her boyfriends have also stated to her..."holy shit how did you get a deal like that" 

thus the point...gals you have powers...


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## snowklinger (Aug 30, 2011)

wrathfuldeity said:


> yea not in the slightest...however as her dad, she has saved me lots of money and time...I used to take her to Home Depot with me...got waaay better service with her in tow...
> 
> However her boyfriends have also stated to her..."holy shit how did you get a deal like that"
> 
> thus the point...gals you have powers...


Fuck man don't tell them, most of em learn it from their mothers!


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## Rogue (Nov 29, 2014)

Argo said:


> I agree. I just use the dealership for my dodge. These days the rates are competitive and you get a factory warranty coverage on any work done. There are also other benefits of a good relationship with a factory dealer too.


I go to the dealer where I bought it for the same reasons, and everything thing I get done usually involves a coupon. But when it comes to brakes or belt change prices seem ridiculous. I had a friend do my breaks but the belt has been more if a hassle to schedule with him. Would save me 100 or so. Maybe I'm just complaining because all my expenses are happening at once instead of spread out.


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## Deacon (Mar 2, 2013)

Rogue said:


> I go to the dealer where I bought it for the same reasons, and everything thing I get done usually involves a coupon. But when it comes to brakes or belt change prices seem ridiculous. I had a friend do my breaks but the belt has been more if a hassle to schedule with him. Would save me 100 or so. Maybe I'm just complaining because all my expenses are happening at once instead of spread out.


there is almost certainly a youtube video showing how to replace the belt. It's almost always very, very simple, and I'd bet you could do it yourself for the cost of the belt and maybe a wrench.


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## tanscrazydaisy (Mar 11, 2013)

Rogue said:


> Makes me so mad I always have to watch out for that bullshit. They want to change the belt on my car for $183!!! The belt from OEM is $60 according to them so labor is 120??? No way!!!


that's cheap.

on my car it's $700 for the timing belt service.

Parts:
https://www.ecstuning.com/Volkswagen-Passat_B6-FWD-2.0T/Engine/Timing/ES251722/

The rest of it is labor & tax.


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## snowklinger (Aug 30, 2011)

tanscrazydaisy said:


> that's cheap.
> 
> on my car it's $700 for the timing belt service.
> 
> ...


Timing belt is a bigger job not to be confused with the black rubber belts you can see on the outside of the motor.


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## Bones (Feb 24, 2008)

The morale of the story is that knowing something about how your stuff works is like money in the bank. 

I'm always amazed how many good car repair videos are available on youtube. I'm not suggesting that everyone should do their own work, but watching a 5 minute video sure gives you a sense of how big or complicated the job really is and what you should ask about. 

Same goes for prices. Here in Ontario, our equivalent of Craigslist is Kijiji. I keep an automated search function going on it for 10-20 different things: tools, certain used cars, kevlar canoes and different bits of furniture at the moment. I may not actually be looking, but I scan the results just to get a sense of what things are going for. That way if I see something like a set of good winter tires going for $100 in July, I don't have to waste time shopping and researching in a rush and I can just jump on it. I'm sure Timmytard does the same thing for snowboards on Craigslist.


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## Lamps (Sep 3, 2011)

tanscrazydaisy said:


> that's cheap.
> 
> on my car it's $700 for the timing belt service.
> 
> ...


VW: the gift is the curse. I'm sure they have to fully disassemble the whole car to replace the belt. I love Vws, but they're brutal on service cost, and I think part of it is that they are a hassle to work on, I had a VR6 Jetta, fantastic car but crazy expensive maintenance. No timing belt, it had a chain, supposed to last the life of the car, but lots of other stuff that was super expensive.


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

Ha, i just diy'ed the spark plugs on my bimmer. It took a bit of work as yeah in true european car fashion, it takes quite a bit of dissassembling to get to. But.... job done! got scared cause one of the coils didnt seat all the way and got a misfire error; almost missed my day 1 at Whistler. But solved it easily in time and now the car is bomber and the dash is lights free. So hell yeh.

Im all for DIY. Got the parts, bought some tools... saved a couple hundreds and now i have tools and knowledge... and a Gortex jacket with the $ i saved 

Did the same with my winter tires last yr. Got em minty new with oem alloys. DIY'ed them..... saved way over $500.


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## tanscrazydaisy (Mar 11, 2013)

Lamps said:


> VW: the gift is the curse. I'm sure they have to fully disassemble the whole car to replace the belt. I love Vws, but they're brutal on service cost, and I think part of it is that they are a hassle to work on, I had a VR6 Jetta, fantastic car but crazy expensive maintenance. No timing belt, it had a chain, supposed to last the life of the car, but lots of other stuff that was super expensive.



With a longitudinal engine, yes you have to take apart the front end. 

Transverse, no.

Nj is expensive so labor rates are around $100+ an hour

An area with cheap labor rates, different story


Sent from my iPhone. There may be horrible grammar and misspelling involved


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## Argo (Feb 25, 2010)

What tires did you end up with? 

After spending some time on the road with Oregon drivers with snow..... where the fuck do oregonians learn to drive? They drive like retirees in South Florida or Texas. Very frustrating to deal with. We got around 18" in bend so the roads are still snow covered now, you would think this was a freak snow storm based on the reactions on the road. Lol


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## WasabiCanuck (Apr 29, 2015)

I put All-weather tires on my FWD van last winter and they are awesome. Note: these are not All-season, in Canada we call those 3 season tires. All-weather tires are winter rated, ie: they have the snowflake on them. Great part is that you don't need to change them change them in the summer, so no storage issue. Great for Saskatchewan since we get full 6 months of winter, and we can get snow in September and May. Not sure if they are available in the US but probably in the northern states. These are newer than snow tires so alot of people don't know about them but I think they work great.


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## Argo (Feb 25, 2010)

This is basically what I use. The Goodyear Duratrac are a year round tire that are snow rated(mountain/snowflake). I love them.


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## Mystery2many (Aug 14, 2013)

Argo said:


> What tires did you end up with?
> 
> After spending some time on the road with Oregon drivers with snow..... where the fuck do oregonians learn to drive? They drive like retirees in South Florida or Texas. Very frustrating to deal with. We got around 18" in bend so the roads are still snow covered now, you would think this was a freak snow storm based on the reactions on the road. Lol


Are they worse than Denver drivers when the snow falls?


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## Argo (Feb 25, 2010)

Mystery2many said:


> Are they worse than Denver drivers when the snow falls?


:eyetwitch2:Absolutely.


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## WasabiCanuck (Apr 29, 2015)

tanscrazydaisy said:


> Technically they are "all-season" tires, and to be called "all-season" (technically M+S aka Mud & Snow) they just need to meet a minimum void to tread ratio.
> 
> In europe, there is a new market for "all-weather" tires, that was pioneered by Nokian originally for the North American market. These all-weather tires still have the mountain-snowflake (an actual traction test, it's a low standard though), but trade the ultimate snow & ice traction so that it can be used year-round, especially for people that do not have the storage for multipe wheelset/tires.
> 
> With the Nokian's it started with the WR, then the WR G2, and now the WR G3 (which for passenger cars, is a combination of the A3 & D3). Hankook jumped in and offered a lower priced alternative, Optimo 4S. Michelin & Goodyear are also offering an "All-weather" tire now also.


Yes this is right. I got the Nokian WRG3s last winter and they are awesome. Not quite as good as a true snow tire but less asspain for me to change/store them twice a year. The WRG3s grab ice great and stop quick, a true snow tire would be only marginally better. These tires are awesome!


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## Rogue (Nov 29, 2014)

Argo said:


> What tires did you end up with?
> 
> After spending some time on the road with Oregon drivers with snow..... where the fuck do oregonians learn to drive? They drive like retirees in South Florida or Texas. Very frustrating to deal with. We got around 18" in bend so the roads are still snow covered now, you would think this was a freak snow storm based on the reactions on the road. Lol



Ohhhhhh Oregonians are horrible!! All the roads are littered in accidents after summer when we get the first rain of the season. If they mention snow all hell breaks loose. Actually getting snow? Don't bother driving lol 

I was shocked how much snow Bend got !!

Anyways, I got some Blizzaks put on yesterday and despite the cost, I'm really excited! The tires fit under my bed so it wasn't even a big deal. I'm going up Wednesday for orientation for instructing so I'm looking forward to seeing how they do 

Did you get the tires straightened out for your wife ?


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## Argo (Feb 25, 2010)

Yeah, had the subaru dealer do it. 

You will wonder why you never got them before.


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## Rogue (Nov 29, 2014)

Furball has a new place to sleep (tire stack) and I got to try out the tires a little Wednesday going up Hood. I'm not gonna lie I was totally excited!!! Played around a little in the open parking lot, can't wait for some real snow to hit !

Thank you everyone for encouraging me to get the snow tires. Already worth it especially with all the rain we've been getting.


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## poutanen (Dec 22, 2011)

Getting studded Hakkas on my work truck next week!!! :hairy:


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## snowklinger (Aug 30, 2011)

WasabiCanuck said:


> Yes this is right. I got the Nokian WRG3s last winter and they are awesome. Not quite as good as a true snow tire but less asspain for me to change/store them twice a year. The WRG3s grab ice great and stop quick, a true snow tire would be only marginally better. These tires are awesome!





Argo said:


> This is basically what I use. The Goodyear Duratrac are a year round tire that are snow rated(mountain/snowflake). I love them.





WasabiCanuck said:


> I put All-weather tires on my FWD van last winter and they are awesome. Note: these are not All-season, in Canada we call those 3 season tires. All-weather tires are winter rated, ie: they have the snowflake on them. Great part is that you don't need to change them change them in the summer, so no storage issue. Great for Saskatchewan since we get full 6 months of winter, and we can get snow in September and May. Not sure if they are available in the US but probably in the northern states. These are newer than snow tires so alot of people don't know about them but I think they work great.


I believe what you are referring to is considered High Performance All Season, or Ultra High Performance All Season. These strata of tires all come with the M+S designation and are rated for performance in light now at least. In order to get away from that designation you then go to Grand Touring All Seasons, which is gonna be more like your Maple Hockey playing Yak Riding 3 seasons.

Anywho thats what I gather from recent shopping/research.


Just a little pile on, also I'm gonna give my car a bath in the morning and post its snowtank glory here.

Cool little CO story: if you buy tires from Tirerack, you can call them and shop by what they have in their local warehouse, then go pick it up next day, no shipping. Fast AAAAND Cheap....what!?

Got Blizzaks for the first time (over the past few years I've used Dunlop, Cooper and General [the Coopers were useless-very literally, the others worked great]) today, slammed em on and drove up to some shady roads in the mountains with a bunch of ice, could barely initiate my ABS or traction control on the lil v6 FWD.

FEELSGOODMAN


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## KansasNoob (Feb 24, 2013)

Rogue said:


> Furball has a new place to sleep (tire stack) and I got to try out the tires a little Wednesday going up Hood. I'm not gonna lie I was totally excited!!! Played around a little in the open parking lot, can't wait for some real snow to hit !
> 
> Thank you everyone for encouraging me to get the snow tires. Already worth it especially with all the rain we've been getting.


You didn't take my coffee table idea?! Ok, _maybe_ it's not the most tasteful. Glad the cat's happy at least. :grin:


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## Argo (Feb 25, 2010)

The Duratrac is as close to a true snow tire as you can buy for big tired trucks. They come predrilled for studs and siped with a softer compound rubber which makes them great in my eyes. I've driven more miles and snowy mountain passes in winter storms over the past 4 years with them than most will ever drive. 

Also, mountain snowflake symbol has some testing requirements to get the label so it has at least a little bit of meaning behind it. At a minimum they have to stop a certain distance from a certain speed a a few intervals of speed.... I am pretty sure the "M&S" rating, which is different, has absolutely zero meaning in real world use even though they are legal in regards to state legislation about traction tires.

Wish I knew that about Denver warehouse pickup when living there!!


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## Rogue (Nov 29, 2014)

KansasNoob said:


> You didn't take my coffee table idea?! Ok, _maybe_ it's not the most tasteful. Glad the cat's happy at least. :grin:


Nor did I take Skull's idea to use it as a cooler lol. 

Coffee table is good though, except I have one already.... And I so wanted to design my place like a *******!


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## poutanen (Dec 22, 2011)

Argo said:


> The Duratrac is as close to a true snow tire as you can buy for big tired trucks.


What about the hakkapeliitta LT2? Comes in pretty big sizes and load ratings... winter tires for the win.


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## Argo (Feb 25, 2010)

poutanen said:


> What about the hakkapeliitta LT2? Comes in pretty big sizes and load ratings... winter tires for the win.


I have 18" rims and run 35" tires. That is a 325/65 r18 

I could only run a 33" tire with those if I had 17" rims......


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## KansasNoob (Feb 24, 2013)

Argo said:


> I have 18" rims and run 35" tires. That is a 325/65 r18
> 
> I could only run a 33" tire with those if I had 17" rims......


Cooper M+S snows and ATW are both available in a E rated 33" diameter for 18" rims.

Fn nasty











Rogue said:


> Nor did I take Skull's idea to use it as a cooler lol.
> 
> Coffee table is good though, except I have one already.... And I so wanted to design my place like a *******!


Without at least 2 dead vehicles in the yard, there's no point in even trying, lol.


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## Argo (Feb 25, 2010)

KansasNoob said:


> Cooper M+S snows and ATW are both available in a E rated 33" diameter for 18" rims.
> 
> Fn nasty
> 
> ...


I run 35s. I'm happy with the quality of ride I get with the Duratrac, they are an amazing tire on ice and snow. No way am I changing


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## say chi sin lo (Oct 15, 2009)

snowklinger said:


> Got Blizzaks for the first time (over the past few years I've used Dunlop, Cooper and General [the Coopers were useless-very literally, the others worked great]) today, slammed em on and drove up to some shady roads in the mountains with a bunch of ice, could barely initiate my ABS or traction control on the lil v6 FWD.
> 
> FEELSGOODMAN


Sounds like you prefer the Blizzaks over just about everything else? Not that I doubt you, but what do you think it is that makes Blizzaks as the go-to choice for most people?

I have a set of Dunlop Winter Sport 3D, they don't drive "that" bad in the dry (still feels gummy), but I have a lot of confidence in them when it goes to shit out there.

What am I missing out on the Blizzaks? Thanks!


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## snowklinger (Aug 30, 2011)

say chi sin lo said:


> Sounds like you prefer the Blizzaks over just about everything else? Not that I doubt you, but what do you think it is that makes Blizzaks as the go-to choice for most people?
> 
> I have a set of Dunlop Winter Sport 3D, they don't drive "that" bad in the dry (still feels gummy), but I have a lot of confidence in them when it goes to shit out there.
> 
> What am I missing out on the Blizzaks? Thanks!


IMO, nothing.

I chose the Blizzaks in my oem size instead of downsizing because I drive 90% dry highway, but I need full winter support.

The Generals I got last year probably were the best at any winter condition but also the loosest in dry weather.

I also almost got the Michellin X-I3 or whatever their top shit is, and it boasts the best dry performance while slightly below General, Firestone and Bridgestone in winter. Tbh we are splitting hairs, but like I said, I was also concerned with dry performance at speed as well as tread life, which the Blizzaks sort of kick ass at everything supposedly.

Apararently these new ws80 blizzaks improve dry handling and sacrifice a touch of the other stuff.

I just went for the Blizzaks because they are the top of the tier and my belief in winter tires is serious. Like I said, great results with my Dunlop Graspics (a little spongey in dry), unstoppable with Generals, but so far the Blizzaks are quite luxurious in all conditions.


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## snowklinger (Aug 30, 2011)

snowklinger said:


> IMO, nothing.
> 
> I chose the Blizzaks in my oem size instead of downsizing because I drive 90% dry highway, but I need full winter support.
> 
> ...



update: blizzaks my least favorite snow tire experience to date. by far the worst performance in weather. Ill be returning to Generals forever barring some new tech breakthrough.


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## kosmoz (Dec 27, 2013)

try finding NOKIAN tires, those are the best.


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## francium (Jan 12, 2013)

I've been running Nokian WR A3 for a few years now and haven't had to chain up once the difference between them and summer tyres is huge, can't recommend enough.


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## tanscrazydaisy (Mar 11, 2013)

francium said:


> I've been running Nokian WR A3 for a few years now and haven't had to chain up once the difference between them and summer tyres is huge, can't recommend enough.


Over in the US and Canada, the a3 is under the "all weather" WR G3 line, which includes the directional D3 tire

I have the a3 version also 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk


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## francium (Jan 12, 2013)

tanscrazydaisy said:


> Over in the US and Canada, the a3 is under the "all weather" WR G3 line, which includes the directional D3 tire
> 
> I have the a3 version also
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk


Strange it's sold as a winter tyre in Europe https://www.nokiantyres.com/winter-tyres/nokian-wr-a3/


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## tanscrazydaisy (Mar 11, 2013)

francium said:


> Strange it's sold as a winter tyre in Europe https://www.nokiantyres.com/winter-tyres/nokian-wr-a3/


Just how nokian markets it

https://www.nokiantires.com/all-weather-tires/nokian-wrg3/

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk


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