# Foot Drop, will i board again?



## Guest (Dec 18, 2009)

Hey guys,

This summer I was skimboarding using a Banshee Bungee, and took a pretty hard fall and messed my knee up pretty badly. I tore my lcl and biceps femoris tendon off where they connect to the bone, and damaged my peroneal nerve. I am now plagued with a condition called "foot drop" where I am unable to pull my foot straight up, or move it out. I can go down and in, though. I have a brace that holds my foot in a neutral position, and allows me to walk normally. My knee is a lot better, and I have been running, playing basketball, and playing baseball with the brace on, but the nerve is still not getting too much better. I love to snowboard, but I only get to go a couple times a year, and I was wondering if anyone had any experience in a situation like this, maybe knows someone who has a similar injury, who could tell me if i'll ever be able to get back on the slopes again.. Any help, anyone??


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## burritosandsnow (Nov 22, 2008)

having zero knowledge other than what youve posted id say you could at least hit good pow days where you have more float than carve ... just the fact that you can still be active with other strenuous sports is a good sign ... remember a lot of the fight is in your mindset and yours seems good... keep riding!


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## Guest (Dec 18, 2009)

Thanks man. I'm thinking that I will be able to board at least kind of because of this brace I have. I can hold my toes up off of the ground by leaning back, and I believe that i'll be able to turn toeside no problem. It's just gonna take getting out there and trying it out to see. I can always ski I guess, but i'd take boarding over skiing any day of the week.


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## earl_je (Oct 20, 2009)

the good thing is, there are AFO braces that prevent foot drop. Stroke patients commonly use these and you can order them through a catalog or online (Sammons-Preston comes to mind). Look for either a plantarflexion stop or dorsiflexion assist brace that would fit in a snowboard boot. Most should be able to fit.

You may need to use a stiffer boot and taller+stiff bindings to heelside better. Instead of using your tibialis anterior (the muscle that pulls your foot up thus preventing foot drop) you may have to learn how to just lean with a slightly straighter knee when in heelside. Good thing is, you tore your hamstring and not your quads. You may have a hard time (if not at all) doing park/jibs.


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## Guest (Dec 18, 2009)

Yeah I have one of those AFO braces. And that's what i was planning on doing, just putting it inside of the boot. Although I didn't tear my hamstring or my quad, the injury was just in my knee. And why do you think I'd have trouble doing park or jibs? I'm not an expert snowboarder or anything, and I haven't done really any park riding, but I would like to learn if at all possible.


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## earl_je (Oct 20, 2009)

iKnowles said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> *I tore my lcl and biceps femoris tendon off where they connect to the bone*, and damaged my peroneal nerve. I am now plagued with a condition called "foot drop" where I am unable to pull my foot straight up, or move it out.


You mentioned you tore your LCL and Biceps Femoris(main muscle out of three which makes up the hamstring). If so, yeah you partially tore your hamstring. All the structures you mentioned are located on the outside of the knee, that means you probably planted your foot while the momentum still kept pushing your femur laterally. Odds are, you just stretched the Peroneal nerve and although it will take a long time, you may yet be able to dorsiflex your foot. By now, the lateral knee stability has been compromised and you most likely need a hinged brace for your knee when riding. 

When doing parks/jibbing/tricks, you ned to at least know how to ollie. This involves a good solid ankle dorsiflexors(muscles that pull your foot up towards you). As simple as buttering the stick would also involve ankle dorsiflexion. When you do presses, the lifted leg not only needs good hip muscles and hamstrings, your ankle also has to dorsiflex to initiate lift. I can think of A LOT of scenarios when you need your ankle dorsiflexors. Like I said, its not impossible to do tricks, it will just be amazingly hard! BTW, I mostly fit patients with energy return AFOs. Most have adapted enough to be able to run at a decent pace.


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## Guest (Dec 18, 2009)

Thanks for the information on that.. I'm hoping I will be able to work around this foot drop mess and snowboard anyways. The doctor has told me that I could possibly see some return in the nerve, but it's been almost 6 months, and I haven't really seen improvement. My doctor tells me that nerves can take years to heal, though. I'm just staying positive about it, and if I can't snowboard, well, I'll just have to move on to something else.


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## earl_je (Oct 20, 2009)

That's the problem with nerve damage. By the time the nerve heals (we're talking years) the muscle it innervates has atrophied enough fot it to be rendered virtually useless. But for as long as you keep trying to fire those muscles (the brain still sends signals through the nerve but the muscle is just not getting enough of it) it should continue to heal. Remember, if you dont use it, you loose it.

Good luck with the recovery! Don't get discouraged and go shred out there! :thumbsup:


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## Guest (Dec 18, 2009)

I've been using a TENS electro stimulation unit to help with the muscle becoming atrophied. Should I continue? And if the nerve comes back, I should be able to work that muscle back into shape right?


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## earl_je (Oct 20, 2009)

Yes, continue using the muscle stimulator to PREVENT atrophy. Most electrical stimulator units can be modulated to perform much more like an NMES(neuromuscular electrical stimulator). A lot of times, hemiplegics use FES(functional electrical stimulator) to improve firing rate and coordination of the muscles. Basic TENS(transcutaneus electrical nerve stimulator) doesn't even touch the muscle but only used to mask out pain. Talk to your PT or MD to make sure they have it modulated to simulate NMES/FES. A good way to tell is at the peak of stimulation, your muscle feels like its grabbing/cramping. Unfortunately, it will NOT strengthen your muscle nor will it build muscle (contrary to late night advertisements, thats all BS.. get a six pack while you sleep, ppppffttt.. horseshit!). It DOES keep the muscle from getting atrophied. To gain strength and build muscle bulk, you have to have active muscle movement AGAINST resistance. No resistance = muscle plateau.

Also, nerves don't 'come back' overnight. Each day/week/month you would notice a slow, frustrating ability of the muscle to twitch and eventually move. After a while though, when you gain good muscle control, then you can get it back to shape by working out. It will be significantly harder and quite frustrating compared to a normal muscle to be honest.


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## Guest (Dec 18, 2009)

When I put the stimulator on the highest setting, it causes my toes to curl up and starts to make my foot feel like it's cramping. Is that what should happen? That seems to match your description. Again, I know I've said it, but thanks so much for all the help and information you've given me. I plan on working this muscle back into shape no matter how hard I have to work. 

Oh and I forgot to mention, when I try to flex my foot, it still doesn't move, but I believe that I can feel a sort of tighness in the tibialis anterior, I think that's the right name. The doctor says this could be purely psychological, because it wasn't picked up by the machine in a nerve test I had, but is this a good sign?


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## earl_je (Oct 20, 2009)

hard to tell... an NCV test only shows speed and firing rate of the nerve. What was the test result? Did you have an EMG test(commonly done with NCV)at the same time? Unless the nerve was completely severed, it should still send a signal albeit delayed and diminished. Are you still having rehab? if so, ask your PT to do a biofeedback test on the tibialis muscle. It gives you a visual/audio signal whenever it picks up muscle contraction.


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## Guest (Dec 19, 2009)

Pretty sure I had all of those at the same time. And I don't think the results turned out very good. The doctor told me it was early on though, and hopefully the situation would improve with time. I'm having another nerve study on december 31st, so we'll see how that one goes.


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## cucubogdy (Jan 23, 2015)

*I have the same issue as you*

I know this tread is a few years old but I have the same issue as you, and I was curios what solution you found that worked for you to be able to snowboard again?


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## Sandman503 (Mar 6, 2018)

Coming from personal experience, yes you will!!

I was an avid snowboarder, started when I was 12 and injured myself when I was 25 and was very good. I dislocated my knee skating and tore my acl lcl and peroneal nerve. 

Then I went through 2 surgeries one for the acl and one for the nerve damage, the lcl grows back. The nerve had snapped so hard the lower side of the nerve shot down to my foot had disappeared to no where land and the doctor had to find another nerve to connect. Don't ask me but it worked, kindof...

3 years later I started to regain movement in my foot but to this day 12 years later the strength is only enough to lift the shoe on my foot and walk like a normal person without a brace. 

Rewind the story to a year after my injury I wanted to see if I could snowboard, I went up with my old packed out boots and jibby tech nine bindings. It was painful and discouraging. So I quit. 

Little did I know that with the right gear I could snowboard and having drop foot would make no difference at all. 

This year, after 12 years of not snowboarding I decided to dive back in head first. I found no information online except this one thread here. Which helped but not really since there was no one with personal experience on the subject. 

I figured I needed the stiffest boots and bindings I could find, the only problem is the stiffer the boots and bindings the more expensive. The stiffest setup I could find in my budget was union force bindings with the regular high backs not the team high backs, the team high backs though cool are not as stiff and 32 binary boa boots. 32s website advertises them as medium flex but they are not, I tried on a bunch of boots too.

On the flip side I figured I needed a buttery catch free board so I went with a gnu carbon credit which is a full rocker board with mag traction. After riding this set up 10 or so times I'm not sure this is necessary, if your beginner or intermediate maybe so though.

I shit you not this set up makes it so having drop foot doesn't matter at all.

The only thing I would do different is go a half size up with the boot. Having drop foot makes it so you can't really wiggle your toes so they fall asleep and loose circulation having a larger toe box may help with this. I usually go loose on my injured foot and use my bindings to really dial in my comfort level. 

Hope this helped

Ps: my injured leg is my right leg and I ride goofy


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## pmeaden (Oct 22, 2019)

I too have dropfoot. i have the ability to pull my foot up, however it is pretty weak. my range of motion upwards is lacking due to my achiles and calf being tight. However, I do not have the ability to move my foot left or right. Though I can not consciously move my foot left to right, muscles do react and fire somewhat. I have a really hard time driving through by feel as well, which causes my balance to suffer; not driving through the heel causes my front foot (bad one) to be late on initiating turns. When my leg feels stiff and weak, its almost like I am trying to ride powder all the time. 

Would a softer boot allow me to maximize the little strength I have in the foot? I could see how a softer boot would allow my foot to be more relaxed and make things smoother, OR do I need a very stiff boot to make it more responsive with limited foot strength also adding more protection (i have some arthritis in the ankle from spraining it a million times. 

My goal is to be able to drive through the heal, and have my foot be more aggressive initiating turns. All making my riding style more fluid and not feel like I'm riding power all the time


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## Moorsey (Dec 19, 2019)

earl_je said:


> hard to tell... an NCV test only shows speed and firing rate of the nerve. What was the test result? Did you have an EMG test(commonly done with NCV)at the same time? Unless the nerve was completely severed, it should still send a signal albeit delayed and diminished. Are you still having rehab? if so, ask your PT to do a biofeedback test on the tibialis muscle. It gives you a visual/audio signal whenever it picks up muscle contraction.


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## Moorsey (Dec 19, 2019)

Hi earl_je and iknowles are u still out there? I’m curious how you went with your snowboarding? I just recently damage my Peroneal nerves in both my legs and am looking at an unknown recovery although I have 3 weeks scheduled in Japan in February the Grimm reality is I know this season I will miss out but I need snowboarding in my life so I’m very curious how things planned out for you there’s some good info you guys discussed which I will lean to help my recovery 
I’m excited that’s even with possibly permanent damage there still hope for the ability to still be able to run and play sports


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## ridethecliche (Feb 27, 2019)

Highly recommend seeing a good PM&R or Physiatry doc for rehab planning.


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