# The hype behind Orca?



## buckchoi (Nov 24, 2017)

So I finally got on the 20/21 Orca after hearing all the hype. Rode it 4 days on PNW pow days. For reference I've been riding for about 20 years, going hard for the past 3 years and got into park, my other boards are the Warpig and the DOA, was looking into getting a free ride pow board to balance out the quiver.

I don't understand the hype behind it. It is damp, charges chunder, and floats well, but the magnetraction really throws me off. It gets grabby and slow during a carve on soft snow, doing quick speed checks feels sluggish as well. I'm sure it'll do great on firm and icy snow. But why would I take the orca out on a non pow day?

I'm going to sell it and get the k2 excavator instead. Glad I tried it but am I riding it wrong? What is so great about it. It carves so-so on groomers, gets real grabby when trying to carve on soft snow or pow. And skidded turns feels off as well. I have a lot more fun on the Warpig in pow than the Orca.

Maybe hybrid techs aren't for me, I didn't care much for the Bataleon evil twins 3bt either, it was great on rails but felt too washy on firm icy snow and side hits.


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## Craig64 (Jul 16, 2015)

You need to put a big Question *?* mark after the title.


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## CocaCola Kicker (Jan 30, 2019)

Its time to admit that C2 sucks


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## WigMar (Mar 17, 2019)

Yeah, Mag never felt right to me either.


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## Jkb818 (Sep 28, 2019)

I owned an orca and returned it before even riding it. Just felt too overhyped. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## ridethecliche (Feb 27, 2019)

WigMar said:


> Yeah, Mag never felt right to me either.


They need more mini mag with C3. It's so good on the spam.


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## Elevation212 (Apr 21, 2019)

ridethecliche said:


> They need more mini mag with C3. It's so good on the spam.


It’s why I like YES decks so much, feels like mini mag on C3, all the other edge tech solutions feel too catch in the mid


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## ridethecliche (Feb 27, 2019)

Elevation212 said:


> It’s why I like YES decks so much, feels like mini mag on C3, all the other edge tech solutions feel too catch in the mid


Mind elaborating? Their camber profiles have always confused me but I've been interested in them for a hot minute.


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## Elevation212 (Apr 21, 2019)

ridethecliche said:


> Mind elaborating? Their camber profiles have always confused me but I've been interested in them for a hot minute.


You got a nice floaty rocker nose for easy entry and one set of edge disruption just at the insert packs with camber between the feet and clean edge between the insert packs. For
me it’s a better version of what mervins trying to do with awesome float and camber snap
and enhanced edge bite for
Ice without the looses grabby mess of rocker & edge bumps between the inserts


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## Mike256 (Oct 13, 2013)

I agree buck, very overrated and i feel the same as you when carving. It is very fun though in lesser sloped pow but I cant find any other purpose for it.


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## ridethecliche (Feb 27, 2019)

Elevation212 said:


> You got a nice floaty rocker nose for easy entry and one set of edge disruption just at the insert packs with camber between the feet and clean edge between the insert packs. For
> me it’s a better version of what mervins trying to do with awesome float and camber snap
> and enhanced edge bite for
> Ice without the looses grabby mess of rocker & edge bumps between the inserts


Which board are you talking about? I'll do some digging!


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## Elevation212 (Apr 21, 2019)

ridethecliche said:


> Which board are you talking about? I'll do some digging!


The PYL & Optimistic, I’d assume it would be the same for the hybrid and that seems closest to the Orca in their line up (or the Y. Which is a softer optimistic)


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## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

Somehow it got hyped. Then people started riding it as an allmountain board. It is not an all mountain board. Hence the existence of the Golden Orca. Lib never corrected the hype about it being a do everything board except to introduce the Golden. The Orca is a pow deck. It is a great pow deck. It is not a great all mountain board. As a pow deck, it has mag because it is rocker and a Mervin.


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## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

CocaCola Kicker said:


> Its time to admit that C2 sucks


Just depends on the board. The Zoid is STILL in my frequent rotation and is on my top list of all time.


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## deagol (Mar 26, 2014)

it's funny, I have a friend who lives in Crested Butte and rides almost every day. He loves this board so much. I have never ridden it and never tried magnatraction. Others who have that I have read don't like it. What seems confusing ti me: if it's a powder board, does this magnatraction make any sense?...


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## ridethecliche (Feb 27, 2019)

deagol said:


> it's funny, I have a friend who lives in Crested Butte and rides almost every day. He loves this board so much. I have never ridden it and never tried magnatraction. Others who have that I have read don't like it. What seems confusing ti me: if it's a powder board, does this magnatraction make any sense?...


It doesn't if you ride it only in powder, but even on pow days you end up in crap sometimes and it's helpful in those scenarios.

I mean, they have to try to sell the board to people on the east coast that want to be like T. Rice.

@Nivek, I just traded a board for a 147 orca and then found the video of you riding one on 'can kevin carve it'. I think it'll be fun to check it out and I'm hopeful I don't die trying to ride it as an all mountain board before I trade it again for something more to my liking. Sadly the gremlin I was going to trade for had an edge bubble. Still it'll be fun to try something new. I really want a volume shifted C3 board with minimag though. I really wish mervin would let you dial in the edge tech if you custom ordered or whatnot. I've heard you can do that though?


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## Elevation212 (Apr 21, 2019)

deagol said:


> it's funny, I have a friend who lives in Crested Butte and rides almost every day. He loves this board so much. I have never ridden it and never tried magnatraction. Others who have that I have read don't like it. What seems confusing ti me: if it's a powder board, does this magnatraction make any sense?...


I live in crested butte and ride every day as well! Intro me to your eskimo brother, I don't think the orca is without merit, the volume shift and rocker between the feet make it nice and turny between trees and the magna can save your ass in hard chop/conditions that happen alot at crusty butte. I think most folks who go for C2X are looking for a looser deck thats a bit more freestyle centric and that when the orcas finds it way into freeriders hands its not quite right. 

The one piece I'll disagree with the consensus here is when C2X magna grabbyness happens. I find the profile is great at speed its when i'm flat footing cat walks, straight lining at low speed or getting off lifts that its wonky and can buck easily


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## Jkb818 (Sep 28, 2019)

deagol said:


> it's funny, I have a friend who lives in Crested Butte and rides almost every day. He loves this board so much. I have never ridden it and never tried magnatraction. Others who have that I have read don't like it. What seems confusing ti me: if it's a powder board, does this magnatraction make any sense?...


If you live in the Northeast it does 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## buckchoi (Nov 24, 2017)

Nivek said:


> Somehow it got hyped. Then people started riding it as an allmountain board. It is not an all mountain board. Hence the existence of the Golden Orca. Lib never corrected the hype about it being a do everything board except to introduce the Golden. The Orca is a pow deck. It is a great pow deck. It is not a great all mountain board. As a pow deck, it has mag because it is rocker and a Mervin.


Yeah that's what I don't understand, its trying to be a quiver of 1 but doesn't do that well, if I'm gonna spend the premium on a board I might as well get a proper pow board. I got on the excavator and is much happier with it, groomer first pow second seems better than pow first groomer second. The mixture of contradictory tech isn't for me.


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## buckchoi (Nov 24, 2017)

Elevation212 said:


> I live in crested butte and ride every day as well! Intro me to your eskimo brother, I don't think the orca is without merit, the volume shift and rocker between the feet make it nice and turny between trees and the magna can save your ass in hard chop/conditions that happen alot at crusty butte. I think most folks who go for C2X are looking for a looser deck thats a bit more freestyle centric and that when the orcas finds it way into freeriders hands its not quite right.
> 
> The one piece I'll disagree with the consensus here is when C2X magna grabbyness happens. I find the profile is great at speed its when i'm flat footing cat walks, straight lining at low speed or getting off lifts that its wonky and can buck easily


I think it might be the type of snow you ride for the grabbiness, I'm in PNW wet snow, perhaps if the snow was drier I wouldn't have felt it. It made me doubt my ability to ride cause how sluggish it felt. Definitely purrs more at higher speeds, I also like doing quick speed checks before side hits and it felt heavy to get the board around, maybe cause it wasn't a freestyle board so side hits and quick set up turns aren't strong-suits.


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## ridethecliche (Feb 27, 2019)

buckchoi said:


> Yeah that's what I don't understand, its trying to be a quiver of 1 but doesn't do that well, if I'm gonna spend the premium on a board I might as well get a proper pow board. I got on the excavator and is much happier with it, groomer first pow second seems better than pow first groomer second. The mixture of contradictory tech isn't for me.


I don't think that it was ever supposed to be a quiver of one. I think people just flocked to it and they never said anything because why would they?


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## Elevation212 (Apr 21, 2019)

buckchoi said:


> I think it might be the type of snow you ride for the grabbiness, I'm in PNW wet snow, perhaps if the snow was drier I wouldn't have felt it. It made me doubt my ability to ride cause how sluggish it felt. Definitely purrs more at higher speeds, I also like doing quick speed checks before side hits and it felt heavy to get the board around, maybe cause it wasn't a freestyle board so side hits and quick set up turns aren't strong-suits.


One of the reasons I moved off C2X was I didn't like the speed check/skidded turn grip, it was too grippy for my liking, felt like it was more of an e brake then a actuated speed check


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## buckchoi (Nov 24, 2017)

Elevation212 said:


> One of the reasons I moved off C2X was I didn't like the speed check/skidded turn grip, it was too grippy for my liking, felt like it was more of an e brake then a actuated speed check


Yeah this is my first time riding a c2x hybrid profile, I might just be a purist, going forward I'm only gonna ride either camber or flat boards with no weird techs.


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## ridethecliche (Feb 27, 2019)

buckchoi said:


> Yeah this is my first time riding a c2x hybrid profile, I might just be a purist, going forward I'm only gonna ride either camber or flat boards with no weird techs.


Try C3.


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## Surgeon (Apr 13, 2020)

There's a patrol dude who got one this season on my home-mountain.
300ft "mountaint"
Zero powder (they groom every snowflake on every inch of the terrain)
Damn waste, dude paid a lot for a board that rides terrible in our conditions. I can only surmise that he fell victim to the hype...


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## easyrider16 (Sep 28, 2020)

I feel like whatever travis rice rides gets hyped


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## drblast (Feb 28, 2017)

C2X is a lot of fun.

Make an Orca $499 and then we're talking. I don't see why people would pay $649 for a powder board that's not also exceptional on groomers. At that price there are some incredible high-end options.

But that's an interesting question - why are there so many very expensive powder boards out there? The <$500 ones are great. I get if it's got a deep swallowtail like the Bataleon Surfer or something like that that's difficult to manufacture. But with all the pigs, cool beans, and sushis out there there are plenty of cheaper options for a pow deck and it seems like pow is the most forgiving condition where the tech in the board doesn't matter so much.


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## lab49232 (Sep 13, 2011)

drblast said:


> C2X is a lot of fun.
> 
> Make an Orca $499 and then we're talking. I don't see why people would pay $649 for a powder board that's not also exceptional on groomers. At that price there are some incredible high-end options.
> 
> But that's an interesting question - why are there so many very expensive powder boards out there? The <$500 ones are great. I get if it's got a deep swallowtail like the Bataleon Surfer or something like that that's difficult to manufacture. But with all the pigs, cool beans, and sushis out there there are plenty of cheaper options for a pow deck and it seems like pow is the most forgiving condition where the tech in the board doesn't matter so much.


Production numbers and purchasers. Companies produce far FAR fewer powder boards than all mountain which drives up cost. And then theres the "because we can" where people who can justify owning a powder board are also people who can justify spending extra money on a board, and companies know that. But you're right, tech in a true powder board, largely not needed. Shape is the biggest element.


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## ridethecliche (Feb 27, 2019)

It's the T.Rice Tax (TM).


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## treehugger (Mar 21, 2021)

Had a Gnu with camber rocker camber 7-8 years back. Worst feeling board I've owned. Didn't like the feeling of magna edge either but at least it worked. Thought that Melvin is very cool company but can't relate to how they ride.


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## Craig64 (Jul 16, 2015)

drblast said:


> C2X is a lot of fun.
> 
> Make an Orca $499 and then we're talking. I don't see why people would pay $649 for *a powder board that's not also exceptional on groomers*. At that price there are some incredible high-end options.
> 
> But that's an interesting question - why are there so many very expensive powder boards out there? The <$500 ones are great. I get if it's got a deep swallowtail like the Bataleon Surfer or something like that that's difficult to manufacture. But with all the pigs, cool beans, and sushis out there there are plenty of cheaper options for a pow deck and it seems like pow is the most forgiving condition where the tech in the board doesn't matter so much.


Maybe because really there isn't such a thing? With profiles and design it's generally all about give and take. A set back cambered Freeride board sort of crosses in between AM and Powder giving you this ability to bounce in and out of the powder to piste with confidence. However an AM board is far more superior on the piste than a Freeride deck. Equally a Powder specific board is going to bring you the greatest level of pleasure in knee deep.


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## AC93 (May 1, 2020)

It is a great board for big cliff drops and tricks in pow, for me. I don't use it as an all mountain board. I use my Super DOA and Asymulator for that.


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## snowaddict23 (Nov 2, 2010)

Orca seems to be the next progression in the Lib series following the T. Rice or Lando Phoenix. I have been riding for 20 years, and I have a 2012 Lib Dark Series and 2017 Lib Lando. Love the Lando, it's great for all mountain. Not exceptionally good for powder. Both boards have the C2 with magne, though the Dark series has 1.0 magne traction (super aggressive). I see your point how it can be grippy (esp on the dark series) but I personally love it. If you like it, you like it, if you hate it, you'll never like it. Don't buy hype, buy what you like.


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## Apex (Sep 23, 2021)

At 6’4” 230 my 159 orca is unsinkable and that is why I love to ride it but it’s definitely a quiver board. I have 35 days on the hill so far this season and haven’t used it once. Last season I rode it maybe 15 times, all in the month of February when it DUMPED everyday. 

The T Rice pro is his all mountain. If you want an all mountain get that. Orca is for pow


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## wolf33d (Dec 31, 2018)

Craig64 said:


> Maybe because really there isn't such a thing?


excavator comes to mind.


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## thecadgod (Nov 2, 2010)

I have only been on mine a couple days in some cold dry powder at Fernie Wilderness Cat Adventures and I had a blast. I also ride a GNU Swallow tail carver which is C2. No idea how they perform on groomers or lift access, use my skate banana for that. I would agree that the Orca got a lot, a lot of hype, prob too much. 

Recently got a Signal WoW which Im taking to Park City Powder Cats Wednesday, looking forward to the new profile and 3d molded nose.


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## tannerhall (Feb 19, 2011)

All lib tech, Never Summer and most hand built made in the USA snowboards are hyped and overrated. Maybe 10-15 years ago they were at the pinnacle of snowboard manufacturing and technology. Now, the manufacturing process and technology has moved forward alot and these companies are lagging behind.


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## NT.Thunder (Jan 4, 2020)

tannerhall said:


> All lib tech, Never Summer and most hand built made in the USA snowboards are hyped and overrated. Maybe 10-15 years ago they were at the pinnacle of snowboard manufacturing and technology. Now, the manufacturing process and technology has moved forward alot and these companies are lagging behind.


Are signal and Marhar boards made locally?


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## robotfood99 (Mar 19, 2016)

A perfect storm of trend, lucky timing, showmanship, and revenge spending.

The hype-drunk supply chain was all too eager to feed the flame and Travis fanned it to near perfection, dropping perfect soundbites (not a gutless fish, apex predator, etc.)and that frankly awesome World Freeride Tour run in 2020. Then the hype morphed into mania.

As a volume shifted meta board, I never felt it was the apex predator it was touted to be. Both Optimistic and Superpig were more fun than the Orca for me. Even the Harpoon, if we're comparing similar profiles.


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## tannerhall (Feb 19, 2011)

NT.Thunder said:


> Are signal and Marhar boards made locally?


Marhar is made in Mitchacan, read bad thing about them


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## WigMar (Mar 17, 2019)

NT.Thunder said:


> Are signal and Marhar boards made locally?


I think Signal still makes prototypes in house, but they moved the bulk of their manufacturing to China.


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## ridethecliche (Feb 27, 2019)

thecadgod said:


> I have only been on mine a couple days in some cold dry powder at Fernie Wilderness Cat Adventures and I had a blast. I also ride a GNU Swallow tail carver which is C2. No idea how they perform on groomers or lift access, use my skate banana for that. I would agree that the Orca got a lot, a lot of hype, prob too much.
> 
> Recently got a Signal WoW which Im taking to Park City Powder Cats Wednesday, looking forward to the new profile and 3d molded nose.


You had me till you said skate banana.


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## 16gkid (Dec 5, 2012)

wolf33d said:


> excavator comes to mind.


Theres lots of boards that are great in both these days, k2 has quite a few, korua, rossignol etc, I use the same boards whether im out in CO/UT searching for powder or back home in the midwest carving on an icecube of a hill.


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## thecadgod (Nov 2, 2010)

ridethecliche said:


> You had me till you said skate banana.


I know I know, I just dork around on it inbounds...


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## snowaddict23 (Nov 2, 2010)

tannerhall said:


> All lib tech, Never Summer and most hand built made in the USA snowboards are hyped and overrated. Maybe 10-15 years ago they were at the pinnacle of snowboard manufacturing and technology. Now, the manufacturing process and technology has moved forward alot and these companies are lagging behind.


Which companies are the new leading edge and leaving Lib and NS behind. Would love to hear your opinion of which companies are the new standard in making boards and why.


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## NT.Thunder (Jan 4, 2020)

I just saw someone pretty much recommend and confirm that the Skate Banana is fine for East Coast carving on ice - have I missed something?


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## bseracka (Nov 14, 2011)

snowaddict23 said:


> Which companies are the new leading edge and leaving Lib and NS behind. Would love to hear your opinion of which companies are the new standard in making boards and why.


IMO the mothership is probably the leader in mfg right now. I’ve also been really pleased with gp87 and k2’s factory. Overall quality, fit and finish far exceed my experience with mervin over the last 10 years. Can’t comment on ns as I don’t care for rocker everything, rental top sheets and excessive resin use making for a dead board


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## snowaddict23 (Nov 2, 2010)

bseracka said:


> IMO the mothership is probably the leader in mfg right now. I’ve also been really pleased with gp87 and k2’s factory. Overall quality, fit and finish far exceed my experience with mervin over the last 10 years. Can’t comment on ns as I don’t care for rocker everything, rental top sheets and excessive resin use making for a dead board


Oh nice, what exactly sets them apart though? That's where I don't follow


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## powderjunkie (Jun 30, 2015)

buckchoi said:


> I think it might be the type of snow you ride for the grabbiness, I'm in PNW wet snow, perhaps if the snow was drier I wouldn't have felt it. It made me doubt my ability to ride cause how sluggish it felt. Definitely purrs more at higher speeds, I also like doing quick speed checks before side hits and it felt heavy to get the board around, maybe cause it wasn't a freestyle board so side hits and quick set up turns aren't strong-suits.


Man I am in the PNW as well and my experience with the Orca could not be more different than yours. Now I own the 19/20 Orca so it is a bit softer from what I understand. But it is such a good board in the trees, absolutely rips a carve in the powder, and is super maneuverable. BUT I don't ride it unless we have at least 6 inches of snow. Honest to goodness haven't ridden it on a non-powder day yet. Oh and I am on the 159...


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## Mike256 (Oct 13, 2013)

bseracka said:


> IMO the mothership is probably the leader in mfg right now. I’ve also been really pleased with gp87 and k2’s factory. Overall quality, fit and finish far exceed my experience with mervin over the last 10 years. Can’t comment on ns as I don’t care for rocker everything, rental top sheets and excessive resin use making for a dead board


Man you need to go pick up a rental and a neversummer and reassess that statement.


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## powderjunkie (Jun 30, 2015)

Mike256 said:


> Man you need to go pick up a rental and a neversummer and reassess that statement.


Bashing on neversummer is what all the cool kids do now. Snowboarders are a fickle crowd.


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## snowaddict23 (Nov 2, 2010)

powderjunkie said:


> Bashing on neversummer is what all the cool kids do now. Snowboarders are a fickle crowd.


I was thinking the same thing. Lib, NS, it's cool to bash now I guess? That's fine. But when people start comparing them to DC boards or some other off the shelf basic Zumiez board, I roll my eyes. Lol


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## ridethecliche (Feb 27, 2019)

I dunno, you gotta just actually be realistic. 

New Lib tech dynamo and gnu anti gravity? Freaking lit. 
NS hammer traditional camber? 
Sounds rad! 

Maybe there's more to hype than just keeping brands honest, but if you're okay with mediocrity then that's great! There's more than one way to slide sideways down a hill.


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## ridethecliche (Feb 27, 2019)

Ferreal though, NS presses some great boards under other brand names. 
Unfortunately any boards with the NS name have bogus profiles...
Fuck triple camber... Just make a passable fucking snowboard instead.


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## tannerhall (Feb 19, 2011)

snowaddict23 said:


> Which companies are the new leading edge and leaving Lib and NS behind. Would love to hear your opinion of which companies are the new standard in making boards and why.


Capita seems like a nice quailty company based on reviews. Ivr ridden Merv and NS snowboard since 2000 end everything feels the same, from top sheet to the cheap soft base to the metal wire to the sidecuts. Only thing that they helped introduced was the rocker rocker hybrid profiles, and not that too seems played out.


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## snowaddict23 (Nov 2, 2010)

Fair assessment and valid opinion. I have ridden K2, Burton, Nitro, Never Summer, Lib, and GNU. I like (maintain loyalty to) Lib based on the "gimmicks" they try, because many stick and become innovative. HP Construction = Built in Risers for response. Magne = If it was awful, no one would ride it. Constantly changing/toying with building materials to strengthen and play with flex and durability. Hybrid rocker is thanks to NS and Lib, and there's a reason EVERYONE copies it or plays with their own version now. So I don't think they are getting left behind by other manufacturers in any way.


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## easyrider16 (Sep 28, 2020)

My two cents is aggressive magne traction feels grabby in sticky snow. In light snow I don't notice it. It does help with grip on hardpack though. I like the less aggressive mag on Jones boards, but I also have boards with no edge tech.

I can't really offer an opinion on manufacturing because even though I've ridden a dozen different boards, it was over 15 years of riding. I feel like you'd need to sample a substantial portion of boards from various manufacturers over a few years to get a decent enough sample size to compare. In any, case, most of these boards are manufactured in the same handful of factories aren't they? I think most people who talk about manufacturing processes are basing opinions on inadequate sample size.


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## Apex (Sep 23, 2021)

There are def some tweaks I’d like to see NS make to their boards but out of all the brands I’ve owned, they are by far the most durable.


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## WigMar (Mar 17, 2019)

snowaddict23 said:


> Fair assessment and valid opinion. I have ridden K2, Burton, Nitro, Never Summer, Lib, and GNU. I like (maintain loyalty to) Lib based on the "gimmicks" they try, because many stick and become innovative. HP Construction = Built in Risers for response. Magne = If it was awful, no one would ride it. Constantly changing/toying with building materials to strengthen and play with flex and durability. Hybrid rocker is thanks to NS and Lib, and there's a reason EVERYONE copies it or plays with their own version now. So I don't think they are getting left behind by other manufacturers in any way.


Can't say I agree with you. HP construction is nothing special at all. Magne is awful, and I don't ride it under any circumstances. Hybrid CRC rocker isn't something EVERYONE copies. In fact, I think Burton and Nitro are the only other ones with that profile (Flying-V and Gull-wing)- it's generally reserved for beginner boards, and EVERYONE agrees it's their worst profiles . I think they are definitely getting left behind with things like their extruded TNT bases they claim are better than sintered. I had an Attach Banana for literally one day before it blew up. Sure I blasted over a boulder, but the tail split right up the middle when I should have gotten a core shot at worst. Think Lib hooked it up with a warranty claim...? Nope.


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## easyrider16 (Sep 28, 2020)

Apex said:


> There are def some tweaks I’d like to see NS make to their boards but out of all the brands I’ve owned, they are by far the most durable.


I think durability is another thing that you'd need a big sample size to have a reliable opinion. I've owned several lib tech boards and put 200 days on them with no issue, and a lot of that is riding in woods that tend to beat up boards. I've had one board from a certain company that delaminated quickly, but some others from the same company have been rock solid. Bottom line, I think almost any board from any reputable brand is going to be decently durable unless you get a factory defect, and they all occasionally have factory defects.


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## Phedder (Sep 13, 2014)

snowaddict23 said:


> I was thinking the same thing. Lib, NS, it's cool to bash now I guess? That's fine. But when people start *comparing them to DC boards* or some other off the shelf basic Zumiez board, I roll my eyes. Lol


DC Boards were made in the Mothership factory for a long time, the Supernatant is one of my all time favorites. They build great boards, lightweight and snappy and I'd take it over anything Lib or NS offer. Have owned both, magnetraction isn't for me, and neither is rocker between the feet. The Orca *is* over hyped though.


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## treehugger (Mar 21, 2021)

Products getting over hyped is just how markets work. Buyer beware. Actually dislike bashing (hating) something for being successful much more, but that isn't whats happening here. I just hate weird ass camber profiles. Jones adopting magna makes sense to me for a splitboard but never get another resort board with it. I'm not buying the argument that bashing Melvin is why I'm not buying it.


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## SEWiShred (Jan 19, 2019)

WigMar said:


> Can't say I agree with you. HP construction is nothing special at all. Magne is awful, and I don't ride it under any circumstances. Hybrid CRC rocker isn't something EVERYONE copies. In fact, I think Burton and Nitro are the only other ones with that profile (Flying-V and Gull-wing)- it's generally reserved for beginner boards, and EVERYONE agrees it's their worst profiles . I think they are definitely getting left behind with things like their extruded TNT bases they claim are better than sintered. I had an Attach Banana for literally one day before it blew up. Sure I blasted over a boulder, but the tail split right up the middle when I should have gotten a core shot at worst. Think Lib hooked it up with a warranty claim...? Nope.


TNT base is so bad. I have a Hot Knife, it's a lot of fun to ride and handles poor conditions very well. But the TNT base does not handle the ice very well. I've had times where I've pulled strings of base off from ice and stuff doing damage. Sintered bases just seem to kind of dent or get distorted a little when they hit something hard, the TNT just comes apart like string cheese. I don't think you really buy Lib Tech because you expect to have a board you'll ride for 10 years. 

Lib Tech takes a lot of risks in their designs, sometimes they make something really great, sometimes it's something really crappy. It's a part of making high risk designs and being innovative. I don't like their build quality but they deserve a lot of credit for trying to innovate. Maybe they aren't doing it as much as they used to but still, I feel like they take risks in designs. But I also think they take advantage of those risks by selling boards that are lacking in features (extruded base, metal edges that don't go around the board, etc) at a premium price.

As far as warranty they seem pretty decent to me. My Hot Knife has a pretty big gap between the metal edge and the base, I took some pictures where I could stick pieces of paper in the gap and it would stand up no problem. I think they were going to actually send me a new board, but it was after HK was discontinued and they didn't have any more so they told me to email them when I want a new board and they could give me a discount.

But I will say this, and I think it has to do with people ripping on Lib right now, and it's that these gimmicks are getting old for a lot of people. I have been riding my Flow Quantum a lot more lately, it's basically just a serious true twin almost true camber (a little flat in the middle but the thing has ridiculous amounts of camber), no goofy blunt nose shape or anything. I almost feel like Mag helps a lot but once you get better and weight placement you don't need it so much at riding in bad conditions. I used to be on my arse 100% when I'd hit ice on my Quantum, got the Hot Knife and it was never a problem, now I can do ice pretty well on my Quantum even with the super dull edges (they are brass so they are dull after like one day of riding I just gave up trying to keep them sharp). 

I think maybe people are reaching stages in riding where that C2 or C1 profile being more forgiving is becoming more of a hindrance, same with mag. I also think the market has become oversaturated with gimmick boards with all these different shapes and "tech". It's pretty much impossible to find something like a true camber true twin all mountain board, but for everyone one you find you'll find 10 different gimmick boards. And I think a lot of people have realized a true camber stiff board will do better in bad conditions than a rocker with edge tech.


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

Everyone wants validation. Many people NEED validation. I can't think of anything more validating than seeing TRice riding the same board you just bought or talking good things about it.

I guess the closest recent thing would be those super awesome Korua short videos. 

But TRice could be riding a Head rental and still be doing awesome things. Unfortunately for general people, this is a complex fact to grasp; and so here comes Lib to sell an Orca to everyone under the sun, because... companies exist to make $.

In the end... who cares. Even if there's more Orcas out there than any other board, that doesn't mean much; there's also more skis than snowboards... and even those skiers seem to be having fun.

Sent from my Samsung using Tapatalk


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## WigMar (Mar 17, 2019)

I just ripped a 10 inch pow day. There were so many Orcas all around me- it's definitely the most popular board I've seen in awhile. It reminded me of when the Skate Banana came out. 

Some duck stance guy with an Orca and a Texan accent started talking shit on my Surfari and my directional stance in the lift line. He claimed I brought a race board to a pow day. I agreed with a smile. That's probably the best description of that board I've heard so far.

T-Rice could sell ironing boards. So much steeze. I wonder if he's on regular production boards or if they give him a little extra oomph. I'm pretty sure that guy could rip on anything.


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## Jkb818 (Sep 28, 2019)

WigMar said:


> I just ripped a 10 inch pow day. There were so many Orcas all around me- it's definitely the most popular board I've seen in awhile. It reminded me of when the Skate Banana came out.
> 
> Some duck stance guy with an Orca and a Texan accent started talking shit on my Surfari and my directional stance in the lift line. He claimed I brought a race board to a pow day. I agreed with a smile. That's probably the best description of that board I've heard so far.
> 
> T-Rice could sell ironing boards. So much steeze. I wonder if he's on regular production boards or if they give him a little extra oomph. I'm pretty sure that guy could rip on anything.


Exactly why I returned mine before riding it  I like riding a board that’s a bit unique. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Snow Hound (Jul 21, 2012)

WigMar said:


> Some duck stance guy with an Orca and a Texan accent started talking shit on my Surfari and my directional stance in the lift line.


Kooks gonna kook. Kook squared in fact, the symmetry is pretty much perfect.


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## GregT943 (Apr 1, 2019)

I only see Orcas on pow days in the northeast. I got one as my resort powder board and like it a lot. Definitely overhyped, I don't know anyone who rides it as an all mountain deck, don't understand why you would want to. However, just because it's overhyped doesn't mean its not a great board. The Orca is fun as hell in powder. Just ride whatever you want, and don't pay attention to what is underhyped or overhyped, or what Travis Rice is riding, because that guy could ride a 4x8 sheet of plywood down the mountain with more style and skill then any of us can on an Orca.


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## tannerhall (Feb 19, 2011)

The problem with merv and NS is that they are charging 600+ for a board. People are gonna nick pick on quailty and tech. If they charged 400+, I honestly wouldn't care that much.

If the orca was 450, it would not be overhyped.


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## easyrider16 (Sep 28, 2020)

Supply and demand. If people will pay it, they will charge it. Hell, when it first came out, people were willing to pay a lot more - $1200 on ebay I heard.

Now for me, I wouldn't pay that. I've scored boards on sale for $200-300 that were plenty fun to ride. But if somebody else wants to pay that much, bully for them.


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## ridethecliche (Feb 27, 2019)

Okay that's it. 
I'm getting an orca just to spite you all. Going to use it only on non powder days and I'm going to buy a true twin downsized non volume shifted park board for the deep days. 

Also was talking to a shop and they commented that they think the mervin boards tend to cause less issues since they aren't fully wrapped. Ie things that would blow an edge and require a ton of repair tend to just cause dings etc. Not sure how true that is but it is what it is.


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## Apex (Sep 23, 2021)

I completely agree with you easy


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## Apex (Sep 23, 2021)

Rode the chair with a guy on Thursday who had an orca. He was complaining that he couldn’t float with the board….

He was on a 147 when he shoulda been on a 156. He didn’t have his bindings set back either ( he prob wouldn’t need to if he was on the right size board). My bud and I looked at each other once we got off the lift and both agreed he was an idiot 

If you can’t float an orca, you’re probably doing something wrong. It’s definitely over hyped for things it sucks at, but it’s still a great pow board


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## buckchoi (Nov 24, 2017)

powderjunkie said:


> Man I am in the PNW as well and my experience with the Orca could not be more different than yours. Now I own the 19/20 Orca so it is a bit softer from what I understand. But it is such a good board in the trees, absolutely rips a carve in the powder, and is super maneuverable. BUT I don't ride it unless we have at least 6 inches of snow. Honest to goodness haven't ridden it on a non-powder day yet. Oh and I am on the 159...
> [/QUOTE


I'm sure its amazing in deep pow, but I would also have fun in deep pow on almost any board. I took it out on a few 3-6 inch days, snow ranged from sticky to regular. I just don't understand the magnetraction on a pow board. It made the groomer turns sticky and slow. I have heard the older versions are more lively, the 21 version have less torsional flex so you had to be more precise to carve it. I would have to try the older model to see the difference.

I actually want to try the gnu headspace as a park board that I can ride on icy days, the magnetraction seems like it'll definitely work but I would only reserve it for firm packed or icy days due to my experience with them on soft snow.


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## treehugger (Mar 21, 2021)

buckchoi said:


> . I just don't understand the magnetraction on a pow board. It made the groomer turns sticky and slow.


Actually the magne makes some sense on purely pow board. Plenty of light pow days with wind blown icy sections where it could be quite helpful getting to the stashes.


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## CocaCola Kicker (Jan 30, 2019)

I love the general ethos of the company (Mervin) but if I place my Ride Algorythm next to my Mullair, one looks like a top of the line snowboard using all the best construction methods and one looks like a shop class prototype


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## NT.Thunder (Jan 4, 2020)

I don't mind seeing pods of Orca's around me, I don't mind seeing NS bombing runs - I actually enjoy having boards people know little about because those that know just know. What frustrates me is seeing people recommend them for just about every snowboard application, it's like a brainwashing trend right from the start. Many would be such better riders and progress so much further if they just were sized correctly amd on the right decks. In terms of construction, well I have no problems with a varying degree of construction tech but I do have a problem with calling it something it's not to justify the inflated pricing on some of these hyped up boards.

One guy told me that the Amplid technology was all just hype, I looked at his profile and saw he rode a NS board so I just replied "a bit like triple Camber I guess" to which he responded "no, nothing like that" - I tapped out at that point.


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## easyrider16 (Sep 28, 2020)

CocaCola Kicker said:


> I love the general ethos of the company (Mervin) but if I place my Ride Algorythm next to my Mullair, one looks like a top of the line snowboard using all the best construction methods and one looks like a shop class prototype


So which is which?


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## tannerhall (Feb 19, 2011)

Welp, I just bought a GNU Hyper........ for the hype


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## drblast (Feb 28, 2017)

It's been a while since a thread about a specific board devolved into bashing whole brands.

I kinda missed this!

We really need a Burton fanboy for completeness sake though.


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## shasty (Nov 30, 2014)

I was judging this dude on the lift with an Orca who said he's been lapping mogul runs, on a non pow day. Thought he was a kook.
My judgment was unwarranted, that dude ripped those moguls with blazing speed.


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## robotfood99 (Mar 19, 2016)

Hype is like a Winger song.









ridethecliche said:


> Also was talking to a shop and they commented that they think the mervin boards tend to cause less issues since they aren't fully wrapped. Ie things that would blow an edge and require a ton of repair tend to just cause dings etc.


This is true. I've smashed my Gnus/Libs head on into tree trunks and shit but have gotten away with just epoxy and clamp jobs. Still think that the unwrapped tips feel cheap tho. And the TNT extruded base... might as well try to sell me a cap construction board. Wait, do they still have one in the lineup?


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## SushiLover (Sep 17, 2020)

ridethecliche said:


> Okay that's it.
> I'm getting an orca just to spite you all. Going to use it only on non powder days and I'm going to buy a true twin downsized non volume shifted park board for the deep days.
> 
> Also was talking to a shop and they commented that they think the mervin boards tend to cause less issues since they aren't fully wrapped. Ie things that would blow an edge and require a ton of repair tend to just cause dings etc. Not sure how true that is but it is what it is.



I have one to sell you


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## ridethecliche (Feb 27, 2019)

SushiLover said:


> I have one to sell you


You're not hyped enough tbh. I'm going to chop the tail and make it a swallowtail so it's actually good in pow.


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## SushiLover (Sep 17, 2020)

ridethecliche said:


> You're not hyped enough tbh. I'm going to chop the tail and make it a swallowtail so it's actually good in pow.


I can help you do that once you buy it. I bought a new tool called a "saw".


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## ridethecliche (Feb 27, 2019)

SushiLover said:


> I can help you do that once you buy it. I bought a new tool called a "saw".


Bruh. I've got an angle grinder if you really wanna party!


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## powderjunkie (Jun 30, 2015)

GregT943 said:


> I only see Orcas on pow days in the northeast. I got one as my resort powder board and like it a lot. Definitely overhyped, I don't know anyone who rides it as an all mountain deck, don't understand why you would want to. However, just because it's overhyped doesn't mean its not a great board. The Orca is fun as hell in powder. Just ride whatever you want, and don't pay attention to what is underhyped or overhyped, or what Travis Rice is riding, because that guy could ride a 4x8 sheet of plywood down the mountain with more style and skill then any of us can on an Orca.


Agreed with this. Love my Orca but I don't ride it in anything under 6 inches of fresh. Thing rips so hard in the trees, super playful, floats amazing, exactly what I need it for. I have the old model so it is super lively and I only paid $450 for it. If you ride it as an all mountain board and hate it that's a you problem. I have my Proto FR for that.


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## tannerhall (Feb 19, 2011)

powderjunkie said:


> Agreed with this. Love my Orca but I don't ride it in anything under 6 inches of fresh. Thing rips so hard in the trees, super playful, floats amazing, exactly what I need it for. I have the old model so it is super lively and I only paid $450 for it. If you ride it as an all mountain board and hate it that's a you problem. I have my Proto FR for that.


how does the Proto ride? And is triple camber real or marketing? I saw it in person and the shape looks exactly as my previous 2 ns.


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## powderjunkie (Jun 30, 2015)

tannerhall said:


> how does the Proto ride? And is triple camber real or marketing? I saw it in person and the shape looks exactly as my previous 2 ns.


Only rode it once so far since we have had so much snow in the PNW. It did pretty darn well the one time I did ride it. Took it through some trees, groomers, and down some steeps. I'll have it out for the foreseeable future so I'll let you know! It is an interesting profile.


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## Snow Hound (Jul 21, 2012)

powderjunkie said:


> Agreed with this. Love my Orca but I don't ride it in anything under 6 inches of fresh. Thing rips so hard in the trees, super playful, floats amazing, exactly what I need it for. I have the old model so it is super lively and I only paid $450 for it. If you ride it as an all mountain board and hate it that's a you problem. I have my Proto FR for that.


Have you ridden many boards recently from manufacturers other than Mervin and NS? What did the Proto replace?


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## powderjunkie (Jun 30, 2015)

Snow Hound said:


> Have you ridden many boards recently from manufacturers other than Mervin and NS? What did the Proto replace?


I think it replaced the West and the Legacy? Honestly I wanted the Jones Flagship but my local boardshop had none and the Proto FR was the only board in my size that was more of an all mountain freeride.


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## Snow Hound (Jul 21, 2012)

powderjunkie said:


> I think it replaced the West and the Legacy? Honestly I wanted the Jones Flagship but my local boardshop had none and the Proto FR was the only board in my size that was more of an all mountain freeride.


Haha I meant replace in your quiver? Legacy was the wide SL if I remember correctly. I just get the impression that the people who are super stoked on the Orca and Libs in general haven't tried the best boards from the likes of Jones, Yes, Rome, Nitro, Salomon, K2, Rossi and even Burton.


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## powderjunkie (Jun 30, 2015)

Snow Hound said:


> Haha I meant replace in your quiver? Legacy was the wide SL if I remember correctly. I just get the impression that the people who are super stoked on the Orca and Libs in general haven't tried the best boards from the likes of Jones, Yes, Rome, Nitro, Salomon, K2, Rossi and even Burton.


It replaced an older Snowtrooper. I almost held off until I could find a Flagship online. But I really wanted to support a local shop and I figured I could always resell for basically what I bought it for if I needed to. 
I agree and disagree with you. I think if you're stoked on the Orca as an all mountain board you're nuts and drinking the Kool aid. But the Orca as a pure powder board (especially the original model) is super killer. Especially if you're hunting trees and powder staches.


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## Elevation212 (Apr 21, 2019)

snowaddict23 said:


> Fair assessment and valid opinion. I have ridden K2, Burton, Nitro, Never Summer, Lib, and GNU. I like (maintain loyalty to) Lib based on the "gimmicks" they try, because many stick and become innovative. HP Construction = Built in Risers for response. Magne = If it was awful, no one would ride it. Constantly changing/toying with building materials to strengthen and play with flex and durability. Hybrid rocker is thanks to NS and Lib, and there's a reason EVERYONE copies it or plays with their own version now. So I don't think they are getting left behind by other manufacturers in any way.


i think this is the wrong forum for NS & Lib as the magna/rocker (outside of pure powder decks) set ups most help beginners/intermediates. At a certain point, where I hypothesize most people on this forum are, they hold back precision/progression. I see C3 mervin get a lot of love on this site and people asking for camber on NS. Mervin and and NS are a great starting point for most riders but whether it be real or perceived their design theory has limited applications for more advanced riders


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## ridethecliche (Feb 27, 2019)

Orca might work as an all mountain deck if you live somewhere that sees a LOT of snow...

Those that are super skeptical on edgetech/mag likely have the benefit of not riding on the ice coast. There's a reason that even boards like the Rossi XV have edgetech. Boards that have a C3 profile and mag/mini mag have a lot of versatility that an OG camber board just can't provide. I've ridden a couple of straight up camber decks and feel like I need another one in the quiver... but I wouldn't want one as my only board. Something like the antigravity or dynamo...? I could live with as a one board quiver.

Honestly part of me wants to just get rid of all my boards (other than the spam and maybe iguchi) and just just ride one board for a full season. No distractions, no nothing. Just one board.


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## easyrider16 (Sep 28, 2020)

powderjunkie said:


> I think it replaced the West and the Legacy? Honestly I wanted the Jones Flagship but my local boardshop had none and the Proto FR was the only board in my size that was more of an all mountain freeride.


I got a Flagship this year and it is hands down one of the best boards I've ever ridden. Great in pow, great on groomers, great for bombing. Maybe not so great for tight trees but great almost everywhere else.

I don't think i could go back to a one board quiver. I need something for the days when its hardpack groomers only and a different thing when the trees are open.


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## Mike256 (Oct 13, 2013)

Elevation212 said:


> i think this is the wrong forum for NS & Lib as the magna/rocker (outside of pure powder decks) set ups most help beginners/intermediates. At a certain point, where I hypothesize most people on this forum are, they hold back precision/progression. I see C3 mervin get a lot of love on this site and people asking for camber on NS. Mervin and and NS are a great starting point for most riders but whether it be real or perceived their design theory has limited applications for more advanced riders


I get what you’re saying but I also somewhat disagree. With magnetraction, if you compare (which i have done) going full tilt and then stop as hard as possible i found it stopped about 1/3rd sooner than similar non magne board on hardpack. I dont find riding a camber board more difficult than a rocker but I get that SOME rocker boards are super easy to ride for beginners (skate banana looking at you). I think some people get a bit of an ego thing going ‘o i only ride camber bla bla’ but give me a rocker to blast through low angle tree runs any day. Where they lack precision they open up a world of fun, spinning into and around trees with the ability to quickly change line at the drop of a hat, effortlessly buttering around when you just feel like playing. Doesnt make someone a beginner to not always want to ride aggressively imo.


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## powderjunkie (Jun 30, 2015)

Elevation212 said:


> i think this is the wrong forum for NS & Lib as the magna/rocker (outside of pure powder decks) set ups most help beginners/intermediates. At a certain point, where I hypothesize most people on this forum are, they hold back precision/progression. I see C3 mervin get a lot of love on this site and people asking for camber on NS. Mervin and and NS are a great starting point for most riders but whether it be real or perceived their design theory has limited applications for more advanced riders


TRice would like a word. 🙂


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## deagol (Mar 26, 2014)

Elevation212 said:


> i think this is the wrong forum for NS & Lib as the magna/rocker (outside of pure powder decks) set ups most help beginners/intermediates. ...... people asking for camber on NS. ......


NS does offer a cambered board now. I have not tried it, but noticed it on their website.








Men’s 2023 Hammer Snowboard *Only Sold at Authorized Retailers*


The directional camber Hammer is the perfect all mountain camber board. Free Shipping. Shop Now.




www.neversummer.com





I have two non-Never Summer cambered boards and love them on groomers, but way prefer the NS profile on choppy stuff, moguls, tight trees, and powder. I also have one board, which happens to be a split board which is totally flat (except the tip & tail obviously). But I never ride it inbounds. I had a solid version I borrowed and rode at Silverton Mountain Ski Area and I didn't like it on the one icy cat-trail that leads you out of the high basin. I may not have enough hours on this flat profile to do a fair comparisons, but I was far happier on my NS Raptor (that I no longer own) than the flat Venture. A cambered board would have been even better on that cat track, but it was nice to not have a camber deck in the deep snow up above. YMMV. My experience FWIW is that the nose is harder to float on a traditional camber deck (but there are newer types of camber which I have heard are better for that) and it's also more catchy on chunder- which there was plenty of.


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## powderjunkie (Jun 30, 2015)

Mike256 said:


> I get what you’re saying but I also somewhat disagree. With magnetraction, if you compare (which i have done) going full tilt and then stop as hard as possible i found it stopped about 1/3rd sooner than similar non magne board on hardpack. I dont find riding a camber board more difficult than a rocker but I get that SOME rocker boards are super easy to ride for beginners (skate banana looking at you). I think some people get a bit of an ego thing going ‘o i only ride camber bla bla’ but give me a rocker to blast through low angle tree runs any day. Where they lack precision they open up a world of fun, spinning into and around trees with the ability to quickly change line at the drop of a hat, effortlessly buttering around when you just feel like playing. Doesnt make someone a beginner to not always want to ride aggressively imo.


I feel like the Orca has a super mellow version of magnetraction. I rode an older Gnu Park Pickle and the magnetraction was so intense that I couldn't even ride it in the trees. Sent that puppy back immediately.


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## Elevation212 (Apr 21, 2019)

powderjunkie said:


> TRice would like a word. 🙂


I stick by my story Sampson Simpson! I rode t rice pros and orcas for a decade and that stuff is good for T rice use cases only! How many people ride T rice lines on the regular!

in all seriousness I’ve got nothing against mervins. I should of been more emphatic that c2x and magna have a place for advanced riders in low angle pow + if you want a loose board. That said I think the tech is beneficial for beginners in more scenarios and that’s why people push back on it. I also think they lose points with some for selling $500+ dollar decks with extruded bases/not full metal wraps and no structure from the factory.


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## WigMar (Mar 17, 2019)

ridethecliche said:


> Those that are super skeptical on edgetech/mag likely have the benefit of not riding on the ice coast.


Yeah, quite possibly. 



ridethecliche said:


> Honestly part of me wants to just get rid of all my boards (other than the spam and maybe iguchi) and just just ride one board for a full season. No distractions, no nothing. Just one board.


I feel like that's how it used to be, at least for me. I didn't have a quiver for several years, maybe eight or ten.


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## Elevation212 (Apr 21, 2019)

WigMar said:


> Yeah, quite possibly.
> 
> 
> I feel like that's how it used to be, at least for me. I didn't have a quiver for several years, maybe eight or ten.





WigMar said:


> Yeah, quite possibly.
> 
> 
> I feel like that's how it used to be, at least for me. I didn't have a quiver for several years, maybe eight or ten.





ridethecliche said:


> Orca might work as an all mountain deck if you live somewhere that sees a LOT of snow...
> 
> Those that are super skeptical on edgetech/mag likely have the benefit of not riding on the ice coast. There's a reason that even boards like the Rossi XV have edgetech. Boards that have a C3 profile and mag/mini mag have a lot of versatility that an OG camber board just can't provide. I've ridden a couple of straight up camber decks and feel like I need another one in the quiver... but I wouldn't want one as my only board. Something like the antigravity or dynamo...? I could live with as a one board quiver.
> 
> Honestly part of me wants to just get rid of all my boards (other than the spam and maybe iguchi) and just just ride one board for a full season. No distractions, no nothing. Just one board.


DO IT CLICHE









Mountain Snowskate 21/22


Sub deck (ski) features Directional twin shape 10 mm of taper nose to tail CamRock profile - rocker tips, camber between trucks 3D Contours Base 1.0 on tip + tail Blunt nose Progressive sidecut for smooth turn initiation Length: 115 cm Industry standard truck insert pattern Snowboard...




www.jonessnowboards.com


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## ridethecliche (Feb 27, 2019)

I mean, they call the subdeck a 'ski' so that's a no from me dawg.


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## Elevation212 (Apr 21, 2019)

ridethecliche said:


> I mean, they call the subdeck a 'ski' so that's a no from me dawg.


very good then









Pocket Rocket 129 Snowboard | KORUA Shapes


Our continually improved Pocket Rocket shape is a micro-cruiser that introduces a completely new shredding experience. Our newest version is now part of the classic line, featuring traditional binding inserts & the same sidecut as its predecessor — making it a tight-turning carving machine at...




us.koruashapes.com


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## ridethecliche (Feb 27, 2019)

Elevation212 said:


> very good then
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The only thing I just learned was that korua has a US site and the boards are more expensive here.


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## Elevation212 (Apr 21, 2019)

ridethecliche said:


> The only thing I just learned was that korua has a US site and the boards are more expensive here.


not ready for that 129 life?


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## ridethecliche (Feb 27, 2019)

Elevation212 said:


> not ready for that 129 life?


Not even a little lol


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## robotfood99 (Mar 19, 2016)

Since they already made the Apex Orca, how about going the other way with an economy version, say around $450, with TNT base and the J.Lynn approved half-cap construction? Or a C3 version and call it the Humpback Orca...


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## Elevation212 (Apr 21, 2019)

robotfood99 said:


> Since they already made the Apex Orca, how about going the other way with an economy version, say around $450, with TNT base and the J.Lynn approved half-cap construction? Or a C3 version and call it the Humpback Orca...


Lol, love the humpback orca, I’ve had my eye on the gnu gremlin for some time, that looks like the C3 orca of my dreams.


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## ridethecliche (Feb 27, 2019)

Elevation212 said:


> Lol, love the humpback orca, I’ve had my eye on the gnu gremlin for some time, that looks like the C3 orca of my dreams.


I could have traded for the gremlin instead of the orca, but the one I looked at had an edge bubble so I passed on it. That would have been rad though!


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## Elevation212 (Apr 21, 2019)

ridethecliche said:


> I could have traded for the gremlin instead of the orca, but the one I looked at had an edge bubble so I passed on it. That would have been rad though!


the gremlin will be my next deck when I tire of my optimistic


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## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

Mike256 said:


> Man you need to go pick up a rental and a neversummer and reassess that statement.


I have. See if you can find a roughly 2015 APO rental. That topsheet is literaly the NS topsheet. They're thick as shit and heavy. Sorry.



snowaddict23 said:


> I was thinking the same thing. Lib, NS, it's cool to bash now I guess? That's fine. But when people start comparing them to DC boards or some other off the shelf basic Zumiez board, I roll my eyes. Lol


DC makes damn good boards, and at the Mothership. Not off the shelf Zumiez decks at all.


WigMar said:


> Sure* I blasted over a boulder*, but the tail split right up the middle when I should have gotten a core shot at worst. Think Lib hooked it up with a warranty claim...? Nope.


YOU blew it up. Cry about it.


Apex said:


> If you can’t float an orca, you’re probably doing something wrong. It’s definitely over hyped for things it sucks at, but it’s *still a great pow board*


Damn straight


tannerhall said:


> Welp, I just bought a GNU Hyper........ for the hype


Nailed it, love that board


Snow Hound said:


> Haha I meant replace in your quiver? Legacy was the wide SL if I remember correctly. I just get the impression that the people who are super stoked on the Orca and Libs in general haven't tried the best boards from the likes of Jones, Yes, Rome, Nitro, Salomon, K2, Rossi and even Burton.


I have, the Orca is, overhyped or not, one of the best pow decks out in my opinion.


robotfood99 said:


> Since they already made the Apex Orca, how about going the other way with an economy version, say around $450, with TNT base and the J.Lynn approved half-cap construction? Or a C3 version and call it the Humpback Orca...


Gremlin. You want a Gremlin. Or many other volume boards. That was kind of the thing with the Orca, there aren't really many (or any?) volume RC boards worth a damn out there.


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## WigMar (Mar 17, 2019)

Nivek said:


> YOU blew it up. Cry about it.


Oh, I did! Only board I've ever killed. I wasn't too sad though. Didn't really love it anyway, and I'm always stoked to get on something new.


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## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

WigMar said:


> Oh, I did! Only board I've ever killed. I wasn't too sad though. Didn't really love it anyway, and I'm always stoked to get on something new.


It's a good board, but it's a good one board quiver board. So not really phenomenal at anything really. Good for the average rider. You probably would have sold it after a few days anyway.


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## ridethecliche (Feb 27, 2019)

Yeah, but wigmar was basically like "IF I CAN'T LOVE THE ATTACK BANANA, THEN NO ONE CAN LOVE THE ATTACK BANANA" and he then proceeded to blow it up.


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## ridethecliche (Feb 27, 2019)

@Nivek
You mentioned the gremlin here as well as basically the C3 orca. How does it float at the same size as the orca? Ie say someones like 170 which is about middle of weight range for the 147 gremlin. Would the orca just float way better at that weight? Ie would one need to size up on the gremlin to get the same float because of C2 vs C3?

I have an 147 orca heading my way but I'm not even sure if it's worth trying because Ice coast kills shit. I just got a trade offer for a 147 dancehaul for it orca which could be a riot. But I low key wonder if the next size up gremlin would just be a full on party!

That said, I think they're making only limited sizes right now so it goes from 148 to 152 or something.


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## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

Float all and all will be similar, but the way you ride it to get that float will be different. More effort on the Gremlin just cause camber. If you want a more apples to apples feel then size up the Gremlin from the Orca, but at the end of the day, it's like a delicious red and granny smith, still both apples, but like, different. Camber vs rocker is just always gonna be different.
I always wish the OG Derby Snake still existed. It would fit perfect for so many peoples needs. I have heard the Dancehaul is actually an ample replacement, but I have not ridden it to say. I just wish there were more, or any, good volume flat boards other than Pig.


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## Mike256 (Oct 13, 2013)

Nivek said:


> I have. See if you can find a roughly 2015 APO rental. That topsheet is literaly the NS topsheet. They're thick as shit and heavy. Sorry.


Riiiiight because ns boards are so heavy….


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## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

Mike256 said:


> Riiiiight because ns boards are so heavy….


Glad we agree


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## kimchijajonshim (Aug 19, 2007)

Haven't caught up on all threads, but I'll say I demoed an Orca 159 at Palisades last season in knee-to-thigh deep left overs and thought it was overhyped, but I don't like reverse camber decks. I will say it's probably the best RC board I've ever ridden.

A buddy just rode the Orca 159 at Baldface for a couple days in hip+ deep snow and LOVED it. To the point he's going to buy one and reset his entire quiver.

Different strokes for different folks.

I do wish Mervin would come up with a proper S-camber. C3 feels like a pretty half-assed solution that's basically just camber with maybe the slightest bit of swiveli-ness between the feet. Didn't notice it a ton while riding the Billy Goat a few years back. And mellow or no magnetraction while we're at it.


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## ridethecliche (Feb 27, 2019)

C3 is basically just camber with a hinge point. It's honestly pretty locked in but the hinge makes it much easier to get the nose up if you're riding in snow. I don't think I'd call it swivel-y the same way boards with rocker tend to be. When you put the board down on flat ground it looks pretty much like regular camber. 

I think it might be my favorite new age camber profile. S camber is my favorite hybrid profile.


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## Snow Hound (Jul 21, 2012)

Mike256 said:


> Riiiiight because ns boards are so heavy….


... and dead. You forgot dead.


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## Mike256 (Oct 13, 2013)

Snow Hound said:


> ... and dead. You forgot dead.


yeah they might lack some pop compared to others I wouldn’t argue that, but to call them heavy you’re either smokin to much crack, have never lifted one up, or you just hate on ns to be part of the hater crew here


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## Powdertrax (Jan 28, 2018)

Years ago I bought a TRS 161 with Mag and rode it about a year, then I picked up a Malcolm 163 and on the very first run could not believe how much better the feel was from groomers to a foot of new.

My buddy still had his TRS161 at the time and wanted to switch boards for a run because of how stoked I was on the Malcolm. We made it half way down the first run and I could not believe how much that TRS felt like a stiff 2x10, we headed down to the chair and he wanted to do one more run on my board. He ended up selling his LiB and picked up the 158 Malcolm.

To each their own, but I wasn’t very impressed


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## UncleHulka (Mar 6, 2019)

Rode the Orca for a few years and loved it until I tried a more caber dominant profile in the Yes Hybrid and was blown away. Had both in a 153 and the Hybrid tears all over the Orca. Huge float and the control of traditional camber, but still forgiving with the camrock. Don't think I'll ever go back to a rocker dominant profile. Tried the Orca again after riding the Hybrid and gave it away after a couple of runs. The Hybrid is so impressive I don't see myself riding anything else in the near future.


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## 16gkid (Dec 5, 2012)

UncleHulka said:


> Rode the Orca for a few years and loved it until I tried a more caber dominant profile in the Yes Hybrid and was blown away. Had both in a 153 and the Hybrid tears all over the Orca. Huge float and the control of traditional camber, but still forgiving with the camrock. Don't think I'll ever go back to a rocker dominant profile. Tried the Orca again after riding the Hybrid and gave it away after a couple of runs. The Hybrid is so impressive I don't see myself riding anything else in the near future.


SSSHHH don't go hurting people's feelings 😆


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## Nolefan2011 (Mar 12, 2011)

WigMar said:


> Can't say I agree with you. HP construction is nothing special at all. Magne is awful, and I don't ride it under any circumstances. Hybrid CRC rocker isn't something EVERYONE copies. In fact, I think Burton and Nitro are the only other ones with that profile (Flying-V and Gull-wing)- it's generally reserved for beginner boards, and EVERYONE agrees it's their worst profiles . I think they are definitely getting left behind with things like their extruded TNT bases they claim are better than sintered. I had an Attach Banana for literally one day before it blew up. Sure I blasted over a boulder, but the tail split right up the middle when I should have gotten a core shot at worst. Think Lib hooked it up with a warranty claim...? Nope.


I had a 2012 T Rice, and then the 2014 T Rice with HP. I thought HP sucked. My first T ride board was better


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## Nolefan2011 (Mar 12, 2011)

Nivek said:


> Float all and all will be similar, but the way you ride it to get that float will be different. More effort on the Gremlin just cause camber. If you want a more apples to apples feel then size up the Gremlin from the Orca, but at the end of the day, it's like a delicious red and granny smith, still both apples, but like, different. Camber vs rocker is just always gonna be different.
> I always wish the OG Derby Snake still existed. It would fit perfect for so many peoples needs. I have heard the Dancehaul is actually an ample replacement, but I have not ridden it to say. I just wish there were more, or any, good volume flat boards other than Pig.


Family Tree line?


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## robotfood99 (Mar 19, 2016)

Nivek said:


> Gremlin. You want a Gremlin. Or many other volume boards. That was kind of the thing with the Orca, there aren't really many (or any?) volume RC boards worth a damn out there.


Oh I know, just poking fun at how redundancy doesn't seem to bother them.



Powdertrax said:


> Years ago I bought a TRS 161 with Mag and rode it about a year, then I picked up a Malcolm 163 and on the very first run could not believe how much better the feel was from groomers to a foot of new.
> 
> My buddy still had his TRS161 at the time and wanted to switch boards for a run because of how stoked I was on the Malcolm. We made it half way down the first run and I could not believe how much that TRS felt like a stiff 2x10, we headed down to the chair and he wanted to do one more run on my board. He ended up selling his LiB and picked up the 158 Malcolm.
> 
> To each their own, but I wasn’t very impressed


This is their magic power. It makes you REALLY appreciate whatever board you ride after them. Years ago I too was on a TRS with full mag and thought I loved it. I lost it in transit on a trip to Japan so I bought a PYL to replace it and... wowzers. In quick succession, I found myself on almost the entirety of Yes' lineup, FA, Flagship, Timeless... and loving them all.

Orca was similar. I liked its performance on pow and in tight situations, and the mag helped negate the shorter EE on ice, but to me it always felt a little dead and planky. It made me appreciate how good my other volume shifted boards in my quiver at the time were (Optimistic and Superpig) and generally made me fall in love with fatties in general.

So now when novices just past the beginner stage ask about these hyped boards, I don't try to dissuade them. They need to try them for themselves... then experience the light at the end of the tunnel. Or not, to each their own indeed.


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## 16gkid (Dec 5, 2012)

robotfood99 said:


> Oh I know, just poking fun at how redundancy doesn't seem to bother them.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Nailed it, this exact same thing happened with never summer boards a few years ago


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## Elevation212 (Apr 21, 2019)

robotfood99 said:


> Oh I know, just poking fun at how redundancy doesn't seem to bother them.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I beiieve I posted it earlier up, c2 mervins and most NS are great decks for casual riders and beginners. They have loads of edge grip while being very easy to turn with low chances of catch due to the rocker in them. That said as soon as you hit intermediate skills those attributes become a bit like riding a tricycle over a real bike, can be fun from time to time but is generally just holding you back


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## mjayvee (Nov 18, 2015)

Rode at Mt. Baker last Sunday 1/9/2022 (Glorious Blue Bird!) and saw an Orca owner with Union Flite Pros mounted and he was carrying his board in the lift line.

When he finally strapped in, I had to let him know that his bindings needed to have the heel cups adjusted because his boots were not centered (his boots were grossly overhanging on the heel side). He had no idea what I was talking about and had no response. 

I could have also told him that he had the wrong type of binding on his Orca. But he was clueless, so I did not want to confuse him any more.


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## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

Mike256 said:


> yeah they might lack some pop compared to others I wouldn’t argue that, but to call them heavy you’re either smokin to much crack, have never lifted one up, or you just hate on ns to be part of the hater crew here


At this point I think I lead the hater crew? Mostly cause I have the experience to back up what I'm saying. The mediocreness of Never Summer and living in Summit breeds hate too. 4 layers of dated pre-preg glass + way too much dampening foil + rental topsheets + mid grade base material = meh boards that are heavy and lifeless. Part of it is that they just aren't what everyone wants them to be. If they want to be the Buick of snowboards that's fine, but then don't pretend they're hyper performing. Also the very existence of triple camber/rocker whatsitfuck is proof enough they don't actually give a shit about the truthfullness of their marketing. To add a micro camber zone in the middle of their aggressive rocker zone and claim it's game changing is nothing less than laughable. Straight laughable. And the fact that their cult is just eating it up shows how dumbly blind they all are. I know human existence craves inclusion to a tribe, but like damn, come on.


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## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

Elevation212 said:


> I beiieve I posted it earlier up, c2 mervins and most NS are great decks for casual riders and beginners. They have loads of edge grip while being very easy to turn with low chances of catch due to the rocker in them. That said as soon as you hit intermediate skills those attributes become a bit like riding a tricycle over a real bike, can be fun from time to time but is generally just holding you back


I mostly agree. But there are some exceptions on the board front, and I think to categorize that profile as that is a bit short sited. For arguments sake I'd lump any rocker dominant profile into your statement, fair? I would have happily taken a Goldmember to AK. The Zoid is damn near an every day board for me right now unless I'm trying to hurt myself in the park. The Niche Story is another I would not hesitate to take to serious steep and deep terrain and ride every day. Before Nidecker killed it the Flow Rush was one of the most sendy twins I've ever owned. Arbor does a phenomenal job with rocker. The Coda Rocker would be on my list of sell everyting I have for 1 board, the Westmark too if I lived in SoCal or some shit. It can be done, it just isn't easy. Early rise, camrock, and camber are, comparatively speaking, easier to design to ride well. Shit even look at NS, the best boards they have made the last 10 years have been the ones they made in camber for other brands. Same for Mervin even. Take the Attach Banana (meh), tweak it a little, add C3, boom Dynamo.


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## 16gkid (Dec 5, 2012)

Nivek said:


> At this point I think I lead the hater crew? Mostly cause I have the experience to back up what I'm saying. The mediocreness of Never Summer and living in Summit breeds hate too. 4 layers of dated pre-preg glass + way too much dampening foil + rental topsheets + mid grade base material = meh boards that are heavy and lifeless. Part of it is that they just aren't what everyone wants them to be. If they want to be the Buick of snowboards that's fine, but then don't pretend they're hyper performing. Also the very existence of triple camber/rocker whatsitfuck is proof enough they don't actually give a shit about the truthfullness of their marketing. To add a micro camber zone in the middle of their aggressive rocker zone and claim it's game changing is nothing less than laughable. Straight laughable. And the fact that their cult is just eating it up shows how dumbly blind they all are. I know human existence craves inclusion to a tribe, but like damn, come on.


GET EM


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## Elevation212 (Apr 21, 2019)

Nivek said:


> I mostly agree. But there are some exceptions on the board front, and I think to categorize that profile as that is a bit short sited. For arguments sake I'd lump any rocker dominant profile into your statement, fair? I would have happily taken a Goldmember to AK. The Zoid is damn near an every day board for me right now unless I'm trying to hurt myself in the park. The Niche Story is another I would not hesitate to take to serious steep and deep terrain and ride every day. Before Nidecker killed it the Flow Rush was one of the most sendy twins I've ever owned. Arbor does a phenomenal job with rocker. The Coda Rocker would be on my list of sell everyting I have for 1 board, the Westmark too if I lived in SoCal or some shit. It can be done, it just isn't easy. Early rise, camrock, and camber are, comparatively speaking, easier to design to ride well. Shit even look at NS, the best boards they have made the last 10 years have been the ones they made in camber for other brands. Same for Mervin even. Take the Attach Banana (meh), tweak it a little, add C3, boom Dynamo.


100% agree, I don’t want to bash on Mervin, the c3 slaps and I want a gremlin in a big way. I also think c2x (and NS variant) is a awesome beginner/intermediate profile as well as for specific advanced use cases like you listed. For the general resort ripping advanced rider the C2/NS CRC profile is limiting and that’s ok, personally I think Mervin does a nice job with their line up of profiles to take riders on a progression, start on the skate banana and then grow into a headspace/riders choice. Similar with the t rice to the gremlins/dynamos of the world.

It will be interesting to see if NS camber can offer a similar progression offer for all mountain riders

personally my other beef with mervin is magna I’d love it if they offered a mellower option that removed the bumps from between the insert packs for a profile similar to the YES under bite or stratta system

Edit: In regards to NS I still have my ‘06 169 Titan with risers, if NS is on here please recreate this deck in a wide, never had a deck rail a turn as hard as that progressive death camber beast

2nd Edit: I certainly agree their are great advanced rider rocker profiles on the market for resort ripping, I just haven’t experienced them from Mervin/NS


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## Nolefan2011 (Mar 12, 2011)

Nivek said:


> At this point I think I lead the hater crew? Mostly cause I have the experience to back up what I'm saying. The mediocreness of Never Summer and living in Summit breeds hate too. 4 layers of dated pre-preg glass + way too much dampening foil + rental topsheets + mid grade base material = meh boards that are heavy and lifeless. Part of it is that they just aren't what everyone wants them to be. If they want to be the Buick of snowboards that's fine, but then don't pretend they're hyper performing. Also the very existence of triple camber/rocker whatsitfuck is proof enough they don't actually give a shit about the truthfullness of their marketing. To add a micro camber zone in the middle of their aggressive rocker zone and claim it's game changing is nothing less than laughable. Straight laughable. And the fact that their cult is just eating it up shows how dumbly blind they all are. I know human existence craves inclusion to a tribe, but like damn, come on.


The only thing I’ll say, is that as someone that owns 13 decks currently, and as a guy that gets bored riding the same deck everyday, having a C2 / CRC profile is a nice change up from time to time. Would I ride it daily? No. Do I want to ride it more than 5 times per year? Nope. That said, the squirely ride is fun sometimes. I’m currently watching for a skate banana, just because I have a 5 year old that I cruise with, and it’s so stupidly easy to butter around on.


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## ridethecliche (Feb 27, 2019)

Do we consider S-camber an 'advanced rider rocker' profile?


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## Phedder (Sep 13, 2014)

ridethecliche said:


> Do we consider S-*camber* an 'advanced rider *rocker*' profile?


Name should say it all...They're talking about rocker dominant profiles, is S *camber* rocker dominant? No. It's camber with a bit of early rise at the nose. 

When I hear hybrid rocker, I think rocker between the feet. When I hear hybrid camber, I think camber between the feet.


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## Mike256 (Oct 13, 2013)

Nivek said:


> At this point I think I lead the hater crew? Mostly cause I have the experience to back up what I'm saying. The mediocreness of Never Summer and living in Summit breeds hate too. 4 layers of dated pre-preg glass + way too much dampening foil + rental topsheets + mid grade base material = meh boards that are heavy and lifeless. Part of it is that they just aren't what everyone wants them to be. If they want to be the Buick of snowboards that's fine, but then don't pretend they're hyper performing. Also the very existence of triple camber/rocker whatsitfuck is proof enough they don't actually give a shit about the truthfullness of their marketing. To add a micro camber zone in the middle of their aggressive rocker zone and claim it's game changing is nothing less than laughable. Straight laughable. And the fact that their cult is just eating it up shows how dumbly blind they all are. I know human existence craves inclusion to a tribe, but like damn, come on.


Jesus christ where did they touch you? I think there is more a hate cult going on then any fanboy cult around here. Sheep be sheep'n. I said they aren't heavy, and they simply aren't. It's a bit over the top this blind ns hate.


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## ridethecliche (Feb 27, 2019)

Phedder said:


> Name should say it all...They're talking about rocker dominant profiles, is S *camber* rocker dominant? No. It's camber with a bit of early rise at the nose.
> 
> When I hear hybrid rocker, I think rocker between the feet. When I hear hybrid camber, I think camber between the feet.


People also call it S-Rocker.

Some S-rocker/camber boards have rocker under the front foot, not just early rise. Early rise is early rise. I don't really consider early rise much of anything since it's often outside the contact point anyway, no?


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## Nolefan2011 (Mar 12, 2011)

Mike256 said:


> Jesus christ where did they touch you? I think there is more a hate cult going on then any fanboy cult around here. Sheep be sheep'n. I said they aren't heavy, and they simply aren't. It's a bit over the top this blind ns hate.


How is it blind hate? He made factually correct observations about construction. What wasn’t accurate in what he said?


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## SushiLover (Sep 17, 2020)

Phedder said:


> Name should say it all...They're talking about rocker dominant profiles, is S *camber* rocker dominant? No. It's camber with a bit of early rise at the nose.
> 
> When I hear hybrid rocker, I think rocker between the feet. When I hear hybrid camber, I think camber between the feet.


I thought S camber is a setback or "backseat" camber (camber under back foot) with rocker in the nose. Boards with S camber are Telos Backslash, Salomon Super 8, Moss snowboards, some Burton boards like HH and SK.


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## Donutz (May 12, 2010)

Nolefan2011 said:


> How is it blind hate? He made factually correct observations about construction. What wasn’t accurate in what he said?


He made assertions. Some of them are diametrically opposite to my actual experience with NS boards, which places the whole list in doubt.


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## Phedder (Sep 13, 2014)

ridethecliche said:


> People also call it S-Rocker.
> 
> Some S-rocker/camber boards have rocker under the front foot, not just early rise. Early rise is early rise. I don't really consider early rise much of anything since it's often outside the contact point anyway, no?


To me early rise is rocker. Basically every snowboard rises at the actual tip and tail, outside of the contact points. If it's rising *early*, it's rising before the contact points = rocker.


SushiLover said:


> I thought S camber is a setback or "backseat" camber (camber under back foot) with rocker in the nose. Boards with S camber are Telos Backslash, Salomon Super 8, Moss snowboards, some Burton boards like HH and SK.


Yeah I think of S camber as a rocker nose (inside the contact point) with the rest of the board being camber. When it's labeled as S rocker I think of that rocker extending further back, something like the old Burton Barracuda which was basically rocker until the waist then camber under the back foot. Boards like the Super 8 are definitely camber dominant, setback camber is a great name for it. 

Too many different names for the variety of profiles, but in my opinion whatever word is used (camber/rocker) in the name should be the dominant shape in the profile.


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## ridethecliche (Feb 27, 2019)

@Phedder makes sense to me!


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## NT.Thunder (Jan 4, 2020)

SushiLover said:


> I thought S camber is a setback or "backseat" camber (camber under back foot) with rocker in the nose. Boards with S camber are Telos Backslash, Salomon Super 8, Moss snowboards, some Burton boards like HH and SK.


It seems to be a pretty successful profile we see on some good boards, I love my Yup which runs the s-camber and even the Surfari has a little rocker in the nose. Ravine and Tailgunner are also popular decks running that profile IIRC


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## powderjunkie (Jun 30, 2015)

Elevation212 said:


> 100% agree, I don’t want to bash on Mervin, the c3 slaps and I want a gremlin in a big way. I also think c2x (and NS variant) is a awesome beginner/intermediate profile as well as for specific advanced use cases like you listed. For the general resort ripping advanced rider the C2/NS CRC profile is limiting and that’s ok, personally I think Mervin does a nice job with their line up of profiles to take riders on a progression, start on the skate banana and then grow into a headspace/riders choice. Similar with the t rice to the gremlins/dynamos of the world.
> 
> It will be interesting to see if NS camber can offer a similar progression offer for all mountain riders
> 
> ...


Tell me you don't know how to ride a crc snowboard without telling me you don't know how to ride a crc snowboard. Would I ride a crc down a 45 degree death chunder chute with one? Fuck no. But would I put a crc against any camber or s camber profile at any resort that gets more than 100 inches of snow each year? Fuck yes.


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## lab49232 (Sep 13, 2011)

powderjunkie said:


> Tell me you don't know how to ride a crc snowboard without telling me you don't know how to ride a crc snowboard. Would I ride a crc down a 45 degree death chunder chute with one? Fuck no. But would I put a crc against any camber or s camber profile at any resort that gets more than 100 inches of snow each year? Fuck yes.


Ya theres a lot of misinformation in this thread. Much of it originates from a single semi-influential source which has permeated the forum community pretty deeply.


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## powderjunkie (Jun 30, 2015)

lab49232 said:


> Ya theres a lot of misinformation in this thread. Much of it originates from a single semi-influential source which has permeated the forum community pretty deeply.


Yup. It's insane to say that crc holds back advanced riders... like Trice on a Orca and Chris Corning crushing slopestyle on a NS don't count?


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## drblast (Feb 28, 2017)

CRC is fun to ride and by no means an "intermediate only" profile. It's not great for carving because you don't get that spring out of turns. That's about the biggest drawback.

My Gnu Park Pickle (slightly stiffer Skate Banana) was fine to charge on and the contact point between your feet with mag digs in hard. It was also really fun to spin around with no effort on that board. Also fun on a powder day.

I still have a flat to rocker board because they're fun to ride. I'm not a beginner who needs a forgiving board.

If you want to judge people by the gear they ride then wait about ten minutes for someone to show up on an old skate banana with duct taped Union flites and backflip their way down the jump line.


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## 16gkid (Dec 5, 2012)

powderjunkie said:


> Yup. It's insane to say that crc holds back advanced riders... like Trice on a Orca and Chris Corning crushing slopestyle on a NS don't count?


Bro trice could be riding a Bond snowboard and still do his thing, were talking mortals here


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## NT.Thunder (Jan 4, 2020)

It's horses for courses, just frustrates me when someone tells me their horse is a race horse when it's clearly dressage


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## 16gkid (Dec 5, 2012)

lab49232 said:


> Ya theres a lot of misinformation in this thread. Much of it originates from a single semi-influential source which has permeated the forum community pretty deeply.


If you're gonna call someone out then do it, this is just lame


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## Phedder (Sep 13, 2014)

powderjunkie said:


> But would I put a crc against any camber or s camber profile at any resort that gets more than 100 inches of snow each year? Fuck yes.


Why? I've ridden and owned plenty of CRC, I just prefer having my contact points at the tail (and nose) engaged instead of lifted off the snow. I can't get the drive and precision I like from CRC. 

Sunshine and Lake Louise are at over 200 inches of snow *so far* with 4 months to go and probably 70% of the time I'm on my stiff, full camber Nitro Banker. It's got a big ass nose that floats me just fine. It's also my narrowest board and absolutely slays in the moguls and tight trees, a board doesn't need rocker between the feet to be agile. For how and where I ride CRC means compromises I don't want to make, for advantages that I don't need. Preferences are preferences.


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## lab49232 (Sep 13, 2011)

16gkid said:


> If you're gonna call someone out then do it, this is just lame


Oh the fourm is chalk full of bluntly calling out the hate for all things Mervin that was developed and instilled by The Angry community back in the day. And now despite their change back to being pro Mervin when Mervin agreed to renew their partnership much of the mistrust and hatred sewn over the years continues to linger. It's kind of fun to watch though, like watching Trump try to convince people to get the vaccine.

It's the same with NS although at least with them they do admit to it being partial location bias.


----------



## NT.Thunder (Jan 4, 2020)

lab49232 said:


> Oh the fourm is chalk full of bluntly calling out the hate for all things Mervin that was developed and instilled by The Angry community back in the day. And now despite their change back to being pro Mervin when Mervin agreed to renew their partnership much of the mistrust and hatred sewn over the years continues to linger. It's kind of fun to watch though, like watching Trump try to convince people to get the vaccine.
> 
> It's the same with NS although at least with them they do admit to it being partial location bias.


Let's not go back there


----------



## Mike256 (Oct 13, 2013)

Nolefan2011 said:


> How is it blind hate? He made factually correct observations about construction. What wasn’t accurate in what he said?


I have zero doubt that nivek knows more about snowboards than I ever will and I'm stoked with his alchemist recommendation, but there has to be more to this heavy hating on ns stuff here then simply a snowboard that isn't liked.


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## powderjunkie (Jun 30, 2015)

Phedder said:


> Why? I've ridden and owned plenty of CRC, I just prefer having my contact points at the tail (and nose) engaged instead of lifted off the snow. I can't get the drive and precision I like from CRC.
> 
> Sunshine and Lake Louise are at over 200 inches of snow *so far* with 4 months to go and probably 70% of the time I'm on my stiff, full camber Nitro Banker. It's got a big ass nose that floats me just fine. It's also my narrowest board and absolutely slays in the moguls and tight trees, a board doesn't need rocker between the feet to be agile. For how and where I ride CRC means compromises I don't want to make, for advantages that I don't need. Preferences are preferences.


That's exactly what I'm arguing... preferences are preferences. But don't tell me that crc holds back advanced riders when I can name about 10 that do.


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## powderjunkie (Jun 30, 2015)

16gkid said:


> Bro trice could be riding a Bond snowboard and still do his thing, were talking mortals here


Bad argument. The original poster says that crc holds back advanced riders. I named 2 advanced riders that it obviously doesn't hold back. So now if you're super advanced it doesn't matter? And if you're only advanced it does? I'm confused.


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## 16gkid (Dec 5, 2012)

powderjunkie said:


> Bad argument. The original poster says that crc holds back advanced riders. I named 2 advanced riders that it obviously doesn't hold back. So now if you're super advanced it doesn't matter? And if you're only advanced it does? I'm confused.


Oh cool, still doesn't matter what pros ride when they get paid to do it, now THATS a bad argument


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## powderjunkie (Jun 30, 2015)

16gkid said:


> Oh cool, still doesn't matter what pros ride when they get paid to do it, now THATS a bad argument


Oh ok. So these super advanced riders only ride snowboards that actually hold them back because they get paid to do so? Thats.... a stretch.


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## 16gkid (Dec 5, 2012)

powderjunkie said:


> Oh ok. So these super advanced riders only ride snowboards that actually hold them back because they get paid to do so? Thats.... a stretch.


Yeah I know its crazy right? Professional riders will ride and promote a board if you pay them, whoa!!


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## powderjunkie (Jun 30, 2015)

16gkid said:


> Yeah I know its crazy right? Professional riders will ride and promote a board if you pay them, whoa!!


Especially when it holds them back! Pretty incredible! I mean Chris Corning may be going to the Olympics and shit but damn. He must prefer that giant multi million dollar contract with NS to doing whatever it is that's better than the Olympics! Oh and Trice absolutely gets held back by crc! Just imagine how much better he could be popping pillow lines with a full camber snowboard! Good thing he gets paid millions to compensate for the suck!


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## 16gkid (Dec 5, 2012)

powderjunkie said:


> Especially when it holds them back! Pretty incredible! I mean Chris Corning may be going to the Olympics and shit but damn. He must prefer that giant multi million dollar contract with NS to doing whatever it is that's better than the Olympics! Oh and Trice absolutely gets held back by crc! Just imagine how much better he could be popping pillow lines with a full camber snowboard! Good thing he gets paid millions to compensate for the suck!


We get it, you love rocker boards


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## powderjunkie (Jun 30, 2015)

16gkid said:


> We get it, you love rocker boards


Lol no. I just hate when someone makes a broad generalization and the facts clearly don't line up with that generalization. You ride whatever you want to ride. So long as you're sliding sideways down a mountain I couldn't give a fuck what you ride. But don't try to tell me that a crc board holds back advanced riders. It doesn't.


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## NT.Thunder (Jan 4, 2020)

I don't see why you can't be an advanced rider on pretty much any profile depending on what type of riding you do.


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## drblast (Feb 28, 2017)

CRC holds back intermediate riders. Pretty much anything forgiving can reinforce bad habits if you're not careful.

That's why I think camber is best for intermediates to progress on. After that, ride what you're having the most fun on and that suits the conditions and style of riding you're after.

Nobody here is a pro caliber rider and past a certain point it's not the gear holding us back. It's just preference and what you're used to riding - pick something and ride the shit out of it and that will be the best board for you. I love my camber but there's no way in hell I couldn't ride just as well on a board like the Goldmember.


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## Jkb818 (Sep 28, 2019)

This thread is spicy [emoji892] 


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## lab49232 (Sep 13, 2011)

If I've gotta take kids to soccer practice I buy a minivan. If Im driving on the Autobahn I get a Corvette. Depending on the situation a corvette might be a superior or inferior vehicle.


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## NT.Thunder (Jan 4, 2020)

lab49232 said:


> If I've gotta take kids to soccer practice I buy a minivan. If Im driving on the Autobahn I get a Corvette. Depending on the situation a corvette might be a superior or inferior vehicle.


Corvettes are shit! 😂


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## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

Mike256 said:


> Jesus christ where did they touch you? I think there is more a hate cult going on then any fanboy cult around here. Sheep be sheep'n. I said they aren't heavy, and they simply aren't. It's a bit over the top this blind ns hate.


I said what I said. In the feels, they touched me in the feels.


Nolefan2011 said:


> How is it blind hate? He made factually correct observations about construction. What wasn’t accurate in what he said?


Damn skippy


lab49232 said:


> Ya theres a lot of misinformation in this thread. Much of it originates from a single semi-influential source which has permeated the forum community pretty deeply.


I am more than semi-influential, it's ok you can admit it. 


NT.Thunder said:


> It's horses for courses, just frustrates me when someone tells me their horse is a race horse when it's clearly dressage


I love this analogy.


lab49232 said:


> Oh the fourm is chalk full of bluntly calling out the hate for all things Mervin that was developed and instilled by The Angry community back in the day. And now despite their change back to being pro Mervin* when Mervin agreed to renew their partnership* much of the mistrust and hatred sewn over the years continues to linger. It's kind of fun to watch though, like watching Trump try to convince people to get the vaccine.
> 
> It's the same with NS although at least with them they do admit to it being partial location bias.


Dear sweet baby jeebus, we have been over that, like, a lot.


Mike256 said:


> I have zero doubt that nivek knows more about snowboards than I ever will and I'm stoked with his alchemist recommendation, but there has to be more to this heavy hating on ns stuff here then simply a snowboard that isn't liked.


Definitely. There are plenty of other shit boards, but NS gets a little special attention from me due to the consistent issues I have with the brand, which is rare (as in rare to have a brand problem vs product problem). How can I attempt to work on their correction? Well, y'all gave me influence, I can't make a dent in them by not buying boards as I don't buy any boards really (I'm spoiled I know), so I will influence who I can to not buy them. 


powderjunkie said:


> Oh ok. So these super advanced riders only ride snowboards that actually hold them back because they get paid to do so? Thats.... a stretch.


Nope not really. At their level they really truly can ride anything. And when looking at a rider like Corning, what the hell is he supposed to ride OTHER than RC? THey have one camber board, and he hasn't been riding it cause you can actually spot that shit in photos and video, so suddenly, now that they do camber, he's just gonna switch when he has dialed his run on rocker? And in video the stakes are (usually) lower for a make it this time perfect kinda riding. So the margin of "betterness" that their preferred profile would give them is less critical.


Jkb818 said:


> This thread is spicy [emoji892]
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Like a serrano


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## Jkb818 (Sep 28, 2019)

This thread is why I can’t own an Orca. Way too stressful.


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## ridethecliche (Feb 27, 2019)

I challenge everyone on here to find a 'compromise' board that they HAVE to ride for one full season (outside of huge dumps and boilerplate). I feel like everyone would grow more by being a minimalist.

I could strap T-Rice down to an ironing board and he'd still hit pillow lines better than I would on the bestnewestmostexpensiveest Orcaflavoroftheseason. 

There's no real mervin hate on this forum anymore. The NS 'hate' is more so annoyance because they're like the Nas of snowboard manufacturing. "Camber is dead". "Oh wait, we brought camber back to life". Like fuck off and just make your fucking boards already and let them stand for themselves without the hype. Jeez.


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## Jkb818 (Sep 28, 2019)

ridethecliche said:


> I challenge everyone on here to find a 'compromise' board that they HAVE to ride for one full season (outside of huge dumps and boilerplate). I feel like everyone would grow more by being a minimalist.
> 
> .


Endeavor Archetype works for me...could also be fine on the NP.


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## NT.Thunder (Jan 4, 2020)

I could ride the Surfari all day and every day


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## Phedder (Sep 13, 2014)

ridethecliche said:


> I challenge everyone on here to find a 'compromise' board that they HAVE to ride for one full season (outside of huge dumps and boilerplate). I feel like everyone would grow more by being a minimalist.


If it's the ultimate compromise, ride the profile I like least, I think I'd be pretty damn happy on a Gnu Hyper Kyarve.

Otherwise my Banker really does handle everything I throw at it, the way I want it to handle them. I'd be very happy 'stuck' riding it.


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## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

The only compromise I’d really have to make at this point would be twin. But even then, not much of a compromise. Give me any combo of camber and shape and I’ll find something to ride everyday and be satisfied


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## smellysell (Oct 29, 2018)

Only ridden it 2 days so far, but a lot of different conditions in those 2 days actually. Otto really could be a quiver of one for me, not that it ever will be though. 

Sent from my Pixel 5 using Tapatalk


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## robotfood99 (Mar 19, 2016)

Since I'm sidelined with a broken wrist, I'd take any rental if only I could get back on snow but the ones I am looking forward to mounting up when I take my cast off are the Optimistic and the Alchemist. Give me a quiver or give me death.



ridethecliche said:


> I challenge everyone on here to find a 'compromise' board that they HAVE to ride for one full season (outside of huge dumps and boilerplate). I feel like everyone would grow more by being a minimalist.


I did exactly this when the airline lost my TRS on my way to Japan. Had to borrow the host's too-short ratted-out Skate Banana for the first few weeks, and I made the best of it by teaching myself to butter and throw 360s. Also got to try many Gentems because my host was friends with TT and had rows of Gentems hung on the walls of his pension. That trip opened my eyes in a lot of ways.



ridethecliche said:


> There's no real mervin hate on this forum anymore.


I have nothing against the brands. But I hate the idea of cheapness (i.e. extruded bases) posing as premium performance features. At least the TRS is now on sintered. There was that one (or two?) season when it was still on TNT and they wanted $599 for it because of some Horseshit construction. Shit like that makes me mad.


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## Elevation212 (Apr 21, 2019)

powderjunkie said:


> Tell me you don't know how to ride a crc snowboard without telling me you don't know how to ride a crc snowboard. Would I ride a crc down a 45 degree death chunder chute with one? Fuck no. But would I put a crc against any camber or s camber profile at any resort that gets more than 100 inches of snow each year? Fuck yes.


Show me your mervin tramp stamp without forcing me to buy you two cosmos at the lodge.

Obviously you didn’t bother to read any of my former posts in this lengthy thread of riders who don’t love the c2x profile so let me put back up my credentials, you can confirm if I’m allowed an opinion. Riding for 25 years, East Coast and west coast, average 30-40 days a season and 100+ the last two, spent over half my time riding a C2 t rice pro and Orca 159 and the last year on a gnu c3 ( which I love and want a gremlin)

So as I said before Mervins C2 profile is great for beginners and intermediates for all mountain and for advanced riders who are in a lot of low grade powder or tight trees (ass I assume you are “powder junkie”) but after riding over 15 decks in the last two years that span from step back rocker , to c3 (still a favorite) cam rock, camber C2 & C2X don’t stack up for most all mountain conditions if you value precision and carving or if you don’t need an E brake on edge to manage your speed

If you are going to call me out again please include some of your Travis Rice Erotic Fan Fic, give me something of value out of your post rather then just a bunch of “good riders can ride anything” bullshit


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## Elevation212 (Apr 21, 2019)

powderjunkie said:


> Lol no. I just hate when someone makes a broad generalization and the facts clearly don't line up with that generalization. You ride whatever you want to ride. So long as you're sliding sideways down a mountain I couldn't give a fuck what you ride. But don't try to tell me that a crc board holds back advanced riders. It doesn't.


I hate when people can’t read, the failures of
our education system are sad. I said crc holds back advanced riders at resorts. CrC is tremendous for what t rice rides which is clean deep pow lines, which I called out as and advantage of the profile for advanced riders, that condition is maybe 5% of the time for any resort rider


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## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

Camber profile is personal preference on where you want the board to drive from. No such thing as a profile that is for advanced riders or not. You may feel that way, that's fine. You give me a style of riding and I can provide you with a solid option in every profile.


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## ridethecliche (Feb 27, 2019)

Nivek said:


> Camber profile is personal preference on where you want the board to drive from. No such thing as a profile that is for advanced riders or not. You may feel that way, that's fine. You give me a style of riding and I can provide you with a solid option in every profile.



How about pure rocker for aggressive all mountain rider on hardpack boilerplate ice coast conditions?


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## Phedder (Sep 13, 2014)

ridethecliche said:


> How about pure rocker for aggressive all mountain rider on hardpack boilerplate ice coast conditions?


Arbor Wasteland Rocker?


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## Rip154 (Sep 23, 2017)

Orca has the pop of C2X, which is pretty good, but C2X was not that good in pow until they put the pow nose on, and add an easy for all shortwidetight shape, it had to be a hit. I have to admit I mostly buy the Lib boards for the graphics, and TNT bases bring graphics out nicely, plus Mervin wouldn't be that ecofrendly without. Tapered C3 boards just has a nice allround feel to them.


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## ridethecliche (Feb 27, 2019)

Phedder said:


> Arbor Wasteland Rocker?


Why are you like this?


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## Scalpelman (Dec 5, 2017)

Rip154 said:


> Orca has the pop of C2X, which is pretty good, but C2X was not that good in pow until they put the pow nose on, and add an easy for all shortwidetight shape, it had to be a hit. I have to admit I mostly buy the Lib boards for the graphics, and TNT bases bring graphics out nicely, plus Mervin wouldn't be that ecofrendly without. Tapered C3 boards just has a nice allround feel to them.


Yeah I tried a lib C3 deck (dark series) and LOVED it. Maybe that’s the next purchase. 


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## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

ridethecliche said:


> How about pure rocker for aggressive all mountain rider on hardpack boilerplate ice coast conditions?


This is obviously where one would go to challenge my statement. I certainly could have been more clear, but I said style and shape, no really conditions. I have ridden Snowbasin in Utah in late Feb after a rain and freeze and rode a Guch Rocker when that still existed. So I would confidently argue the Crosscut Rocker would handle it, but I don’t ever have to ride that garbage so I can’t promise. Though the spirit was more about averageish conditions, and the idea that eliminating some of the extremes I could put anyone from expert to beginner on a board in any profile for any preferred style of riding.

The other good argument is early rise and jib. Jib inherently leaning towards twin, and early rise inherently being directional makes that pretty incompatible.


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## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

Also the idea was that the profile isn’t the factor holding back the rider for the style of riding compared to a rider at a different level. Full rocker on the ice coast is just as rough for a beginner as an intermediate as an expert as long as the board itself can keep up to the level of riding.


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## Elevation212 (Apr 21, 2019)

Nivek said:


> Also the idea was that the profile isn’t the factor holding back the rider for the style of riding compared to a rider at a different level. Full rocker on the ice coast is just as rough for a beginner as an intermediate as an expert as long as the board itself can keep up to the level of riding.
> [/QUOTE





Nivek said:


> Also the idea was that the profile isn’t the factor holding back the rider for the style of riding compared to a rider at a different level. Full rocker on the ice coast is just as rough for a beginner as an intermediate as an expert as long as the board itself can keep up to the level of riding.


We are getting into some deep math on this argument, it seems like were we are landing is everything is awesome based on the rider and we should shut down this forum as opinion is not valued as we don’t want to offend


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## Mike256 (Oct 13, 2013)

I dont see anyone being offended here, just some passionate discussions about peoples varying opinions.


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## Elevation212 (Apr 21, 2019)

Mike256 said:


> I dont see anyone being offended here, just some passionate discussions about peoples varying opinions.


Thanks for makomg


Mike256 said:


> I dont see anyone being offended here, just some passionate discussions about peoples varying opinions.


Well Mike, not to throw cold water on your argument but when powder junkie told me I didn’t know how to ride c2 thus my opinion was invalid I was offended but perhaps im
a one of one on this thread


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## bseracka (Nov 14, 2011)

Scalpelman said:


> Yeah I tried a lib C3 deck (dark series) and LOVED it. Maybe that’s the next purchase.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Hasn’t the darker series been out of the line up for a few seasons now? I recently sold my dark that I had been using as a rock board and have been questioning my decision since .


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## Donutz (May 12, 2010)

Elevation212 said:


> Well Mike, not to throw cold water on your argument but when powder junkie told me I didn’t know how to ride c2 thus my opinion was invalid I was offended but perhaps im
> a one of one on this thread


"No True Scotsman" argument can be safely ignored. (Powder Junkie, not Mike)


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## Jkb818 (Sep 28, 2019)

I’m offended 


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## Scalpelman (Dec 5, 2017)

bseracka said:


> Hasn’t the darker series been out of the line up for a few seasons now? I recently sold my dark that I had been using as a rock board and have been questioning my decision since .


Oh yeah long gone. It’s my only reference for C3. That thing blasted through anything . And. M


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## powderjunkie (Jun 30, 2015)

Elevation212 said:


> Thanks for makomg
> 
> 
> Well Mike, not to throw cold water on your argument but when powder junkie told me I didn’t know how to ride c2 thus my opinion was invalid I was offended but perhaps im
> a one of one on this thread


Hey, you get offended by a random dude on a snowboard forum that's a you problem. I still stand by what I said... if crc holds you back as an advanced rider at a resort I'm not sure you're the advanced rider you think you are.


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## Mike256 (Oct 13, 2013)

I always wondered what would happen if there was no religion. Now I know. ‘The profile wars’.
Canada would show the usa their full support despite not agreeing with the usa’s view on magnetraction. This would infuriate Russia. The EU would be invading Japan over their use of rocker. China would have rounded up all the skate banana sympathizers and forced them to build traditional camber boards in slavery. The middle east would just be blowing shit up because they have no snowboarding.


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## Elevation212 (Apr 21, 2019)

powderjunkie said:


> Hey, you get offended by a random dude on a snowboard forum that's a you problem. I still stand by what I said... if crc holds you back as an advanced rider at a resort I'm not sure you're the advanced rider you think you are.


Well now we have to meet up on a epic hardpack downhill to see who can get the most out of this shitty camber profile. I’m envisioning some queen playing in the background Highlander style.


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## GregT943 (Apr 1, 2019)

I feel like you guys went way too far into this and this thread should have died 6 pages ago. It's a pow board, it should be ridden in pow. Magnetraction doesn't make a difference in deep pow. Rocker is good in deep pow. It's over hyped as an all mountain board, which it is not designed for, it's designed for pow. Of course Lib Tech will not do anything to downplay the hype, because they are a business and they want to make money. Lets not forget they literally made a snowboard with a negative side cut and slapped Travis Rice's name on it and sold it to people. 

Travis Rice Lib Tech Banana Hammock


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## GregT943 (Apr 1, 2019)

Mike256 said:


> I always wondered what would happen if there was no religion. Now I know. ‘The profile wars’.
> Canada would show the usa their full support despite not agreeing with the usa’s view on magnetraction. This would infuriate Russia. The EU would be invading Japan over their use of rocker. China would have rounded up all the skate banana sympathizers and forced them to build traditional camber boards in slavery. The middle east would just be blowing shit up because they have no snowboarding.


They have indoor snowboarding...........and sand boarding, which I feel rocker would be good for


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## powderjunkie (Jun 30, 2015)

GregT943 said:


> I feel like you guys went way too far into this and this thread should have died 6 pages ago. It's a pow board, it should be ridden in pow. Magnetraction doesn't make a difference in deep pow. Rocker is good in deep pow. It's over hyped as an all mountain board, which it is not designed for, it's designed for pow. Of course Lib Tech will not do anything to downplay the hype, because they are a business and they want to make money. Lets not forget they literally made a snowboard with a negative side cut and slapped Travis Rice's name on it and sold it to people.
> 
> Travis Rice Lib Tech Banana Hammock


Agreed completely. You ride it for what it's designed for its an amazing board. You ride it as an all mountain board then it's substandard.


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## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

GregT943 said:


> Travis Rice Lib Tech Banana Hammock


Yes this board was pointless. So pointless in fact that if anyone has one, they should just send to me. I mean, yeah.



Rode one on a groomer, it tried to kill me.


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## 16gkid (Dec 5, 2012)

I had to drop this gold nugget here lol


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## ridethecliche (Feb 27, 2019)

Nivek said:


> Yes this board was pointless. So pointless in fact that if anyone has one, they should just send to me. I mean, yeah.
> 
> 
> 
> Rode one on a groomer, it tried to kill me.


Yeah but can Kevin carve it doe?


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## Snow Hound (Jul 21, 2012)

GregT943 said:


> They have indoor snowboarding...........and sand boarding, which I feel rocker would be good for


I've actually been snowboarding in a Dubai shopping mall. Very weird.


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## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

ridethecliche said:


> Yeah but can Kevin carve it doe?


The video would suggest a hard no on that one.


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## LoveyourbodyLarry (Nov 9, 2021)

I like magna and Hybrid rocker on my riders choice, and I like my camber dominant Maelstrom… snowboarding is cool 🤷🏻‍♂️


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## drblast (Feb 28, 2017)

Mike256 said:


> China would have rounded up all the skate banana sympathizers and forced them to build traditional camber boards in slavery.


I think Burton already did that.


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## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

LoveyourbodyLarry said:


> I like magna and Hybrid rocker on my riders choice, and I like my camber dominant Maelstrom… *snowboarding is cool *🤷🏻‍♂️


Snowboarding is NOT cool and if I had the authority I’d ban hammer you SO hard for saying something so absolutely asinine!


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## ridethecliche (Feb 27, 2019)

Snowboarding is dead. 

Then never summer invented triple camber and brought it back to life!


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## ThatsNotFennel (Dec 29, 2015)

Haven't been on the forum in about 4 years. Glad to see that nothing has changed.


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## NT.Thunder (Jan 4, 2020)

Wasn't really sure where to put this Gremlin review link below, stumbled across it on FB so it's legit 😂 but I thought was a great read and I just loved the graphic below with the Orca in the bin. But seriously it was a good read for me who hasn't ridden either, want to ride the Gremlin as I think the board would be awesome and want to ride the Orca in pow and groomers just to say I have but in all seriousness I'm sure both boards have their place and if you love it, that's all that matters.


GNU Gremlin vs Lib Tec Dorca


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## ridethecliche (Feb 27, 2019)

I'm 5'10, 170lbs, and a size 8 boot. I just recently traded my 157 Otto for a 147 orca... Mostly so I could just see what the hype was about and because I knew resale would be easy. The board is already spoken for so there's that. 

So I'll start the post off by saying I was wrong about the orca. 

I ride the board all day today at steamboat springs. It hasn't snowed much here in the last week and I rode it mostly on groomers and some tree runs. I thought this was a good test of the board because no one argued against it being a great powder boards, but the jury says that it's a bit of a lackluster all mountain board so that's what I figured I'd attempt to evaluate. 

Honestly, the board did fine. I think I'm on the heavier side for the EE of this board but it didn't really let me down on groomers. I was able to carve pretty well on it and there's a 'can Kevin carve it' on the same 147 orca. It's prefectly adequate. The snap is pretty good and riding the board in the trees here was a lot of fun. There were some icier spots that I rode through as well and the mag did its job. I lost grip only once where I think my bindings and boots were a little loose and the play just got me off balance. It was totally fine on groomers, moguls, tree runs, and a few times when I got a tiny bit of air. 

So my final thoughts? I sold the board before I was even done riding it for the day. Mostly because i felt like it was too small for me. I had the board up to the mid 40s and it was honestly pretty stable though a larger size would have probably been better. 

Overall, I can totally see why someone that mostly rides out west could use the orca as a daily driver. I think people that live out east and don't ride when the conditions are bleh would be able to get away with using it as a daily as well. 

The reality of the situation is that the majority of us out on this forum are gear heads. We like having multiple boards for different conditions and argue over what camber profile is the best in which conditions. For someone that buys a new board every couple of years it's totally solid especially with good resale value. If I had received a 150 in the trade i might have actually kept it.


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## Elevation212 (Apr 21, 2019)

ridethecliche said:


> I'm 5'10, 170lbs, and a size 8 boot. I just recently traded my 157 Otto for a 147 orca... Mostly so I could just see what the hype was about and because I knew resale would be easy. The board is already spoken for so there's that.
> 
> So I'll start the post off by saying I was wrong about the orca.
> 
> ...


After riding a 159 orcas for 2 years I’d agree with your assessment, fine fun board the hype in some ways does it a disservice by setting the bar a bit too high (doubt any deck would live up to it)


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## ridethecliche (Feb 27, 2019)

Elevation212 said:


> After riding a 159 orcas for 2 years I’d agree with your assessment, fine fun board the hype in some ways does it a disservice by setting the bar a bit too high (doubt any deck would live up to it)


I really think that everyone that has an opinion about it should try one out in mixed conditions before ruling their verdict. I'd actually consider a CRC board more after riding the orca!


----------



## Craig64 (Jul 16, 2015)

I love watching a lot of Snowboard reviews online and have sort of realised that the LT Orca is probably the most reviewed Snowboard on YT. Fancy that???


----------



## Craig64 (Jul 16, 2015)

Could this be the "Apex" in Orca Reviews???


----------



## NT.Thunder (Jan 4, 2020)

Craig64 said:


> Could this be the "Apex" in Orca Reviews???


Anyone who gets through the full 18 min + is a better man/woman than me.

I managed maybe 40 seconds after scrubbing through to someone thinking he was David Attenborough.....


----------



## Craig64 (Jul 16, 2015)

NT.Thunder said:


> Anyone who gets through the full 18 min + is a better man/woman than me.
> 
> I managed maybe 40 seconds after scrubbing through to someone thinking he was David Attenborough.....


18m 24s that you'll never get back. There is a good bit of comedy with a David Attenborough interpretation at the end.


----------



## NT.Thunder (Jan 4, 2020)

Craig64 said:


> 18m 24s that you'll never get back. There is a good bit of comedy with a David Attenborough interpretation at the end.


I feel yr misleading the group here regarding good bit of comedy, maybe comedy but good is a stretch too far


----------



## kimchijajonshim (Aug 19, 2007)

robotfood99 said:


> Still think that the unwrapped tips feel cheap tho. And the TNT extruded base... might as well try to sell me a cap construction board. Wait, do they still have one in the lineup?


These are my biggest complaints about Lib, they cut costs to stay competitive with US manufacturing-- and then try to sell those compromises are performance features. They don't have edges in the tips for "easier repairs". If you need to raise costs or cut corners to maintain US manufacturing and stay competitive, fine just fucking say it.

Korua confirmed to me that no full-wrap edge as a cost-saving measure, not performance-related. Korua's $500-ish standard boards are not full wrap, they leave the tails unsealed. But they do full-wrap on their $800 Plus boards.


----------



## Craig64 (Jul 16, 2015)

I also find with LT boards that when I hot wax (around 120° C) the base the colours from the graphics bleach through the base material and run through into the wax. Not sure what paints they use on their graphic sheets but they appear not super stable.


----------



## robotfood99 (Mar 19, 2016)

Craig64 said:


> I also find with LT boards that when I hot wax (around 120° C) the base the colours from the graphics bleach through the base material and run through into the wax. Not sure what paints they use on their graphic sheets but they appear not super stable.


Eco-SublimatedTM
As in, their bases sublimate into the ecology.😜

After watching the review of the Apex Orca, I finally understand the graphic. It's the artist's impression of the $1,000 sized hole in your wallet and the accompanying buyer's remorse. Genius.


----------



## kimchijajonshim (Aug 19, 2007)

Mike256 said:


> Jesus christ where did they touch you? I think there is more a hate cult going on then any fanboy cult around here. Sheep be sheep'n. I said they aren't heavy, and they simply aren't. It's a bit over the top this blind ns hate.


Lol. I rode Never Summers almost exclusively for ~5 years from like 2011 to 2015. They're heavy. They are unreasonably durable, but that comes at a cost.


----------



## board geo nerd (11 mo ago)

I didn’t like the orca much on anything, but then I found some pow in the trees, which is where this board shone.

It’s got more magne-traction than I want, and it also taught me that I never want a board with rocker between the feet. Fun in pow though!

I like my Warpig almost as much in the pow, but everywhere else it’s much better than the Orca.


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## Craig64 (Jul 16, 2015)

Just a question....., 

is Magne-Traction® that big of a design initiative to lift a hybrid board to the level of what full camber already has going on? 

Would Magne-Traction® on a stiff full camber board be the ultimate East Coast carver?

Or...., is Magne-Traction® just a buzz word to lift LT sales? 









Snowboarding Technology: Magne-Traction Explained


Magne-traction is simply a wavvy edged snowboard. Here's an explanation of how the technology works.




blog.liftopia.com


----------



## Surgeon (Apr 13, 2020)

Craig64 said:


> Just a question.....,
> 
> is Magne-Traction® that big of a design initiative to lift a hybrid board to the level of what full camber already has going on?
> 
> ...


Well, I owned a headspace (so C3, pretty much camber, + magnetraction). It did grip ridiculously well. I'm a camber-guy so it was a good combo for me. Didn't like the board enough to keep it (kept my Huck Knife and Assassin), it was too soft for me. Carving on it, especially heel-side was fantastic with the mag + c3 + asym.


----------



## board geo nerd (11 mo ago)

My Ultracraft (which is camber dominant) has “mellow magnetraction” and I quite like it. It is not obtrusive, and it does seem to help outright edge grip just a little (and that’s enough). It doesn’t look serrated at all. Looks more like very subtle changes/flat sections in an overall smooth radial sidecut.

It has made me realize that a bit of interruption on the sidecut can be a good thing, but that anything as visible as full-on magnetraction is an annoyance in the riding experience.


----------



## bseracka (Nov 14, 2011)

Craig64 said:


> Just a question.....,
> 
> is Magne-Traction® that big of a design initiative to lift a hybrid board to the level of what full camber already has going on?
> 
> ...


Way, way back i had a full cambered Danny kass with mag vertighoul orange and black with Halloween graphic. As i recall it was their last true camber deck as Danny refused to jump on the rocker train that Mervin was going full steam ahead with. I really liked that board and thought it had excellent grip I do recall it being a bit slower on the flags but nothing terrible. It might have been a bit hooky on take off and landing of tricks and ground tricks could be punishing. Overall I would definitely ride a full camber with mellow mag for grip if they did one again. Of course I’d want it to be directional this time


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## Craig64 (Jul 16, 2015)

Decent review on the Apex 🐳by Andreas.


----------



## Nolefan2011 (Mar 12, 2011)

board geo nerd said:


> I didn’t like the orca much on anything, but then I found some pow in the trees, which is where this board shone.
> 
> It’s got more magne-traction than I want, and it also taught me that I never want a board with rocker between the feet. Fun in pow though!
> 
> I like my Warpig almost as much in the pow, but everywhere else it’s much better than the Orca.


Isnt that the point though? It’s a quiver pow deck that people hyped into a daily driver. Can you imagine the intermediate snowboarder coming off their first deck, being sold an Orca as a daily driver? That’s what’s happening at most shops in North America. I saw more Orcas in Park City this year than any other board.

Feel the same way about the Pig. Daily driver? Nope. There are so many better daily drivers out there.


----------



## Surgeon (Apr 13, 2020)

Nolefan2011 said:


> Isnt that the point though? It’s a quiver pow deck that people hyped into a daily driver. Can you imagine the intermediate snowboarder coming off their first deck, being sold an Orca as a daily driver? That’s what’s happening at most shops in North America. I saw more Orcas in Park City this year than any other board.
> 
> Feel the same way about the Pig. Daily driver? Nope. There are so many better daily drivers out there.


I've said it earlier but you're right, even on my little 300 feet hill with ZERO powder ever, I see guys riding Orcas and just shake my head... saw a dude ride a golden orca a few weeks ago. I can't believe the amount of money that guy plunked down on that board, only to ride it on a 300 ft hill that never has any powder. Ridiculous.
Marketing is a powerful brainwashing tool...


----------



## Nolefan2011 (Mar 12, 2011)

Surgeon said:


> I've said it earlier but you're right, even on my little 300 feet hill with ZERO powder ever, I see guys riding Orcas and just shake my head... saw a dude ride a golden orca a few weeks ago. I can't believe the amount of money that guy plunked down on that board, only to ride it on a 300 ft hill that never has any powder. Ridiculous.
> Marketing is a powerful brainwashing tool...


I hear you. I guarantee 3/4s of it is on the shops. It was like when people would try to sell you a Burton nug as a daily driver. I would just laugh. And the Burton Nug isn’t even made anymore because it just isn’t better than a normal snowboard in every condition.


----------



## Mike256 (Oct 13, 2013)

Nolefan2011 said:


> Isnt that the point though? It’s a quiver pow deck that people hyped into a daily driver. Can you imagine the intermediate snowboarder coming off their first deck, being sold an Orca as a daily driver? That’s what’s happening at most shops in North America. I saw more Orcas in Park City this year than any other board.
> 
> Feel the same way about the Pig. Daily driver? Nope. There are so many better daily drivers out there.


At least the people buying their first board wouldn't really know any better I guess. Ignorance is bliss!


----------



## Craig64 (Jul 16, 2015)

I wonder..., could it be that Kevin from SPC has been one of the big driving factors in establishing the "Cult of the Orca 🐳" as he was one of the 1st Pro' YT'ers to take it under his wings???


----------



## ridethecliche (Feb 27, 2019)

Surgeon said:


> I've said it earlier but you're right, even on my little 300 feet hill with ZERO powder ever, I see guys riding Orcas and just shake my head... saw a dude ride a golden orca a few weeks ago. I can't believe the amount of money that guy plunked down on that board, only to ride it on a 300 ft hill that never has any powder. Ridiculous.
> Marketing is a powerful brainwashing tool...


Yeah but I ride the same board as Travis Rice dude!


----------



## Surgeon (Apr 13, 2020)

ridethecliche said:


> Yeah but I ride the same board as Travis Rice dude!


I've always wanted to try his proctologist...


----------



## moonstation2000 (11 mo ago)

I read these 12 pages because I'm just getting back into boarding and was looking at the Orca as an all-mountain East Coast (all ice, no pow) board. I guess you've all convinced me otherwise...

Back to the drawing board for me...


----------



## 16gkid (Dec 5, 2012)

moonstation2000 said:


> I read these 12 pages because I'm just getting back into boarding and was looking at the Orca as an all-mountain East Coast (all ice, no pow) board. I guess you've all convinced me otherwise...
> 
> Back to the drawing board for me...


Lots of great choices out there luckily, check out K2, Rossignol, nitro, Salomon for some mild directional camber dominant options


----------



## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

Craig64 said:


> I wonder..., could it be that Kevin from SPC has been one of the big driving factors in establishing the "Cult of the Orca [emoji228]" as he was one of the 1st Pro' YT'ers to take it under his wings???


I doubt those guys have THAT much influence...... this is all Travis Rice with some validation help, but i think it's mostly him. 

The guy is a marketing train. Which is a good thing, because i'd much rather see the good, pro rider business model succeed over the influencer model.

Sent from my Samsung using Tapatalk


----------



## ridethecliche (Feb 27, 2019)

bseracka said:


> Way, way back i had a full cambered Danny kass with mag vertighoul orange and black with Halloween graphic. As i recall it was their last true camber deck as Danny refused to jump on the rocker train that Mervin was going full steam ahead with. I really liked that board and thought it had excellent grip I do recall it being a bit slower on the flags but nothing terrible. It might have been a bit hooky on take off and landing of tricks and ground tricks could be punishing. Overall I would definitely ride a full camber with mellow mag for grip if they did one again. Of course I’d want it to be directional this time


Didn't Danny Kass kinda leave mervin because they were moving to rocker ish and he refused to get behind it? Atleast that's what one of the bombhole episodes would have me believe...



moonstation2000 said:


> I read these 12 pages because I'm just getting back into boarding and was looking at the Orca as an all-mountain East Coast (all ice, no pow) board. I guess you've all convinced me otherwise...
> 
> Back to the drawing board for me...


Answer's in there. Look at the dynamo or gremlin. If you've ridden before, you'll get the hang of it real quick.


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## lab49232 (Sep 13, 2011)

ridethecliche said:


> Didn't Danny Kass kinda leave mervin because they were moving to rocker ish and he refused to get behind it? Atleast that's what one of the bombhole episodes would have me believe...


Danny Kass is possibly the worst person to have ever been part of the snowboard community and an even worse human being. Danny's departure from all the companies he's been a part of have never been a moral or directional choice he made. I can assure you that the idea he and Mervin parted ways because of rocker is... beyond fan fiction.


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## ridethecliche (Feb 27, 2019)

lab49232 said:


> Danny Kass is possibly the worst person to have ever been part of the snowboard community and an even worse human being. Danny's departure from all the companies he's been a part of have never been a moral or directional choice he made. I can assure you that the idea he and Mervin parted ways because of rocker is... beyond fan fiction.


Regardless, per the bombhole episode I listened to, he hated riding rocker boards and wanted nothing to do with them. I'm sure it made Mervin's decision easier. Figures that he's from NJ...


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## bseracka (Nov 14, 2011)

lab49232 said:


> Danny Kass is possibly the worst person to have ever been part of the snowboard community


Not at all defending the guy, but I had never heard this before. Anything you can share on the subject?


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## lab49232 (Sep 13, 2011)

ridethecliche said:


> Regardless, per the bombhole episode I listened to, he hated riding rocker boards and wanted nothing to do with them. I'm sure it made Mervin's decision easier. Figures that he's from NJ...


Oh I know the Bombhole well, simply stating that that part of the podcast was extremely misleading and far from what soured the relationship.




bseracka said:


> Not at all defending the guy, but I had never heard this before. Anything you can share on the subject?


It's well known in the industry. Ignoring my anecodotal notes, personal business experiences with him, employees who lived with him on a house boat out here, just go read the interviews from his brother Matt who he started Grenade with, then completely threw under the bus so bad he left the industry and went to live in seclusion.


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## ridethecliche (Feb 27, 2019)

Bummer...
I'm sure a lot of people idolized him because he was a pretty heavy hitter.


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## NT.Thunder (Jan 4, 2020)

F1EA said:


> I doubt those guys have THAT much influence...... this is all Travis Rice with some validation help, but i think it's mostly him.
> 
> The guy is a marketing train. Which is a good thing, because i'd much rather see the good, pro rider business model succeed over the influencer model.
> 
> Sent from my Samsung using Tapatalk


Yeah, just totally this. Travis Rice is an incredible rider and driven that Orca range into so many hands and you just have to read through a number of FB groups how effective he's been. There's really no point commenting on a "What board should I buy post" because they're driven hard by the Orca Pod and if not it'll be a NS deck. 

Correct me if I'm wrong though but the Orca series seems to have grown, I'm not over the differences but that's a good thing that popularity continues to drive development on certain decks.


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## ridethecliche (Feb 27, 2019)

NT.Thunder said:


> Yeah, just totally this. Travis Rice is an incredible rider and driven that Orca range into so many hands and you just have to read through a number of FB groups how effective he's been. There's really no point commenting on a "What board should I buy post" because they're driven hard by the Orca Pod and if not it'll be a NS deck.
> 
> Correct me if I'm wrong though but the Orca series seems to have grown, I'm not over the differences but that's a good thing that popularity continues to drive development on certain decks.


What do you mean grown? Do you mean that it's split from just one board to more like a pro-model series? Yeah, its certainly diffused. I mean the OG was supposed to be a powder board but people have been using it for an all mountain board and so they started making a version that was more all mountain focused so people could still have an orca. Then there's one with better construction. Then there's the split. 

I'm sure there will be more...


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## NT.Thunder (Jan 4, 2020)

Yeah - where they've moved from the standard Orca to offering an Apex and Golden version, I've no idea what each model offers but LibTech are doing well to just capitalise on the marketing and hype of the Orca and grow the range. That new colourway is one of the most hideously looking boards I've seen but the fan base don't care one bit, they're eating it up


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## Craig64 (Jul 16, 2015)

Like moths to the flame.


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## ridethecliche (Feb 27, 2019)

NT.Thunder said:


> Yeah - where they've moved from the standard Orca to offering an Apex and Golden version, I've no idea what each model offers but LibTech are doing well to just capitalise on the marketing and hype of the Orca and grow the range. That new colourway is one of the most hideously looking boards I've seen but the fan base don't care one bit, they're eating it up


I think the Apex is the regular orca with more premium materials and more carbon etc. Probably lighter.
Golden orca is their 'well, we might as well make an all mountain board with the orca name' board. Don't know if its a mistake in their specs, but all 3 sizes look to have the same WW...

Not sure what the point of the T. Rice Pro is now... guess that's their more freestyle board with the T Rice name on it. I mean hell... Good for them for selling all this shit at crazy prices.

A lot of the folks that grew up snowboarding are now willing to spend lots of money on it. With things like international travel etc taking a back seat with COVID, I'm not shocked that these things are moving in record numbers. I'm super curious what's going to happen in the next few years tbh.


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## ridethecliche (Feb 27, 2019)

lab49232 said:


> Oh I know the Bombhole well, simply stating that that part of the podcast was extremely misleading and far from what soured the relationship.
> 
> 
> 
> It's well known in the industry. Ignoring my anecodotal notes, personal business experiences with him, employees who lived with him on a house boat out here, just go read the interviews from his brother Matt who he started Grenade with, then completely threw under the bus so bad he left the industry and went to live in seclusion.



Oh man, this isn't that long ago.


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## RallySoob (11 mo ago)

Ya I was almost that intermediate rider tricked into this as a DD.... thinking I needed an Orca because I started my research on youtube. 

Thread here is a good read thanks


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## robotfood99 (Mar 19, 2016)

ridethecliche said:


> I think the Apex is the regular orca with more premium materials and more carbon etc. Probably lighter.
> Golden orca is their 'well, we might as well make an all mountain board with the orca name' board. Don't know if its a mistake in their specs, but all 3 sizes look to have the same WW...


Orcas 153, 156, 159 have always had the same ww, probably because Travis felt it was wide enough and the added length provided enough additional surface area. Apex's dimensions are identical. Golden's ww are incremental by size. 

Lib once sold three different versions of TRS at the same time - TRS, TRS HP, and TRS FP. Now there is only one version (HP C3) and it's great, showing what Lib can offer if they were so inclined. So after this Orca fever dies down, Lib could scale back to one version with traits from the OG, current base (HP), and apex(FP) models with whatever camber profile happens to be the most marketable at the time. 

Or Travis just continues to get bigger and bigger and we end up with 12 more of his named boards...


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## Nolefan2011 (Mar 12, 2011)

moonstation2000 said:


> I read these 12 pages because I'm just getting back into boarding and was looking at the Orca as an all-mountain East Coast (all ice, no pow) board. I guess you've all convinced me otherwise...
> 
> Back to the drawing board for me...


Just get the regular T Rice. It’s an awesome board, was a favorite of mine for a long time. Highly recommended if you want the mag. There are others. Dynamo is directional. GNU has some fan favorites as well.

I rode the Orca. It’s fun in powder, but like the party boards, I don’t know why you would sacrifice so much on the other 90% of days at a resort when it isn’t snowing


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## ridethecliche (Feb 27, 2019)

I'm sure people own multiple versions so they can ride them in 'all conditions'. 

I'd love to try the C3 trs. Sounds like it would be a fun board.


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## MrDavey2Shoes (Mar 5, 2018)

This thread is bonkers, I’m buying 8 orcas.


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

Ride has also done similar... Warpig, Twin Pig, Mountain Pig, super pig.

If something sells, they're going to keep milking it til it dies. Ride got the best business luck as it isn't tied to a rider...

Travis is still relevant so he's going to keep cashing in. On the other hand, you have Nico Muller and Terje who are legends but got lazy and got cancelled instead. It's a shame, because Terje made the best boards/shapes and Nico is the best rider ever... but this is Sparta I guess.

Sent from my Samsung using Tapatalk


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

MrDavey2Shoes said:


> This thread is bonkers, I’m buying 8 orcas.


You mean you'll be getting 4 more?

Sent from my Samsung using Tapatalk


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## ridethecliche (Feb 27, 2019)

F1EA said:


> You mean you'll be getting 4 more?
> 
> Sent from my Samsung using Tapatalk


4 of each kind


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## SushiLover (Sep 17, 2020)

ridethecliche said:


> I'm sure people own multiple versions so they can ride them in 'all conditions'.
> 
> I'd love to try the C3 trs. Sounds like it would be a fun board.


I've been the GNU headspace 155 two weeks ago and I loved it (C3). I don't if I liked the C3 more or the asym or a combination of both with that medium soft flex. I'm curious to find another mervin C3 that's more of a freeride with the same feel as the headspace. @ boarderhack recommended the GNU 4.


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## ridethecliche (Feb 27, 2019)

SushiLover said:


> I've been the GNU headspace 155 two weeks ago and I loved it (C3). I don't if I liked the C3 more or the asym or a combination of both with that medium soft flex. I'm curious to find another mervin C3 that's more of a freeride with the same feel as the headspace. @ boarderhack recommended the GNU 4.


The spam was C3. Dynamo and gremlin would be other options. Riders choice as well. 

Few good options from them for mid stiff C3. Just figure out what you want in terms of sidecut and taper etc.


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## SushiLover (Sep 17, 2020)

ridethecliche said:


> The spam was C3. Dynamo and gremlin would be other options. Riders choice as well.
> 
> Few good options from them for mid stiff C3. Just figure out what you want in terms of sidecut and taper etc.


I was thinking the Dynamo, RCC, GNU 4, Antigravity, New GNU 4x4 2023, TRS, may be the BRD (too narrow). The Gremlin might be too stiff between the feet. I want to have that flex with my front foot to initiate turns better.


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## SushiLover (Sep 17, 2020)

I wish mervin kept the SPAM in their lineup. That's the one board I'd love to own.


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## lab49232 (Sep 13, 2011)

ridethecliche said:


> Oh man, this isn't that long ago.


My Two favorite quotes "He did his own thing and didn't care what people thought" is just the nice way of saying he was a self centered piece of garbage, and then "he kind of brought his friends with him to the top" Pretty sure Matt would argue that pretty heavily! But he does give all the hints to the reality, Danny always thought he was a rockstar and wanted to live the rockstar lifestyle, thinking he was better than people and could do whatever he wanted without consequence. It is good to see him back on his feet some now instead of bumming on couches around Portland. Most of us stopped doing business or associating with him after the Joseph Condorelli hire at Grenade and some subsequent lawsuits for undercutting their merchant accounts

But let's not distract from the thread. The Orca is good, the Orca is great even, and T Rice is still the biggest name in raw natural freestyle riding which is the sexiest form of the sport, that's gonna lead to a god tiered view of the product. No board is as good as the Orca Hype (Except maybe my Rome Mod but that's personal bias) but the Orca when used as designed for is as good in its catagory as any other board is in their respective selection.

Hype gets carried away, carried away hype creates understandably then gets hate. Is the Orca the best snowboard ever, no. Is it a great snowboard that absolutely deserves to be in the upper echelon of boards, no question.


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## bseracka (Nov 14, 2011)

lab49232 said:


> Is it a great powder snowboard that absolutely deserves to be in the upper echelon of powder boards, no question.


Fixed it for you


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## MrDavey2Shoes (Mar 5, 2018)

SushiLover said:


> I wish mervin kept the SPAM in their lineup. That's the one board I'd love to own.


I killed mine this year in the trees. RIP SPAM.


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## ridethecliche (Feb 27, 2019)

SushiLover said:


> I wish mervin kept the SPAM in their lineup. That's the one board I'd love to own.


Shoulda bought mine. Cool board for sure. But I got an offer I couldn't refuse!


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## SushiLover (Sep 17, 2020)

ridethecliche said:


> Shoulda bought mine. Cool board for sure. But I got an offer I couldn't refuse!


I wanted to but you never gave me a number


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## ridethecliche (Feb 27, 2019)

SushiLover said:


> I wanted to but you never gave me a number


I got more than the board cost new...


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## Craig64 (Jul 16, 2015)

I'm now starting to think...., is it more trendier to not own an Orca??? Sort of like..., how sexy do chicks look..., without having any tatts now.


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## Elevation212 (Apr 21, 2019)

Craig64 said:


> I'm now starting to think...., is it more trendier to not own an Orca??? Sort of like..., how sexy do chicks look..., without having any tatts now.


Let it be known, the time is now to buy and orca and go against the grain


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

Real rebels wear Ruroc.

Sent from my Samsung using Tapatalk


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## Elevation212 (Apr 21, 2019)

F1EA said:


> Real rebels wear Ruroc.
> 
> Sent from my Samsung using Tapatalk


Gilson for the greats


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## MrDavey2Shoes (Mar 5, 2018)

I’m having all my top sheets Vinyled with the Orca graphic


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## Craig64 (Jul 16, 2015)

Elevation212 said:


> Let it be known, the time is now to buy and orca and go against the grain


To be honest....., I haven't even seen an Orca on the Aussie slopes.


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## MountainMystic (Apr 24, 2019)

Elevation212 said:


> Gilson for the greats


🥴🥴🤢🤢🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮


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## NT.Thunder (Jan 4, 2020)

Craig64 said:


> To be honest....., I haven't even seen an Orca on the Aussie slopes.


That's true, but also, when was the last time you saw powder on the Aussie slopes.


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## ridethecliche (Feb 27, 2019)

NT.Thunder said:


> That's true you, but also, when was the last time you saw powder on the Aussie slopes.


Doesn't stop people in the NEUSA!


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

Craig64 said:


> To be honest....., I haven't even seen an Orca on the Aussie slopes.


Me neither.

Sent from my Samsung using Tapatalk


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## NT.Thunder (Jan 4, 2020)

Correct me if I'm wrong also, but isn't there a lot of Hype around Lib Tech and NS products being US based companies, do Lib Tech make their boards in the US?


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## bseracka (Nov 14, 2011)

NT.Thunder said:


> Correct me if I'm wrong also, but isn't there a lot of Hype around Lib Tech and NS products being US based companies, do Lib Tech make their boards in the US?


Lib is still manufacturing in the us


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## ridethecliche (Feb 27, 2019)

Mervin does, and yes, so does NS.


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## Craig64 (Jul 16, 2015)

F1EA said:


> Me neither.
> 
> Sent from my Samsung using Tapatalk


You don't realise how lucky you are.


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## robotfood99 (Mar 19, 2016)

He says it's over-recommended... but doesn't see the irony of doing yet ANOTHER extended review. FFS. Go down this verbal rabbit hole at your own peril.


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## ridethecliche (Feb 27, 2019)

Craig64 said:


> You don't realise how lucky you are.


Dooooo youuuu realiiiiizee.

Oohhh ohhhhh ohhhh


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## Elevation212 (Apr 21, 2019)

ridethecliche said:


> Sooooo youuuu realiiiiizee.
> 
> Oohhh ohhhhh ohhhh


What a group of showman 10/10 recommend going to see them live if given the chance


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## SEWiShred (Jan 19, 2019)

kimchijajonshim said:


> These are my biggest complaints about Lib, they cut costs to stay competitive with US manufacturing-- and then try to sell those compromises are performance features. They don't have edges in the tips for "easier repairs". If you need to raise costs or cut corners to maintain US manufacturing and stay competitive, fine just fucking say it.
> 
> Korua confirmed to me that no full-wrap edge as a cost-saving measure, not performance-related. Korua's $500-ish standard boards are not full wrap, they leave the tails unsealed. But they do full-wrap on their $800 Plus boards.


I don't think it has anything to do with costs, the material for snowboard edging is like $5 for two pieces to do an entire snowboard, and that's if you buy it on snowboardmaterials.com, the actual cost for snowboard edging is probably half of that for someone buying in bulk. It probably costs more to have someone properly router and machine the edges to line up in labor than it does for the material to do the whole edge.

I think Lib Tech does it because of planned obsolescence, so your board needs to be replaced sooner. The part on my Hot Knife where the metal edges end, the base material is being worn down a lot. I ride a ton, my old board you can see the imprints of the snowboard edging where it goes into the base where I drive it toe edge.








Those little tab things, wore the base down so much you can make them out. But that's after 11 years and riding an absolute ton in poor midwestern conditions. My Hot Knife is only like 2 or 3 years old and the base is already wearing down where the metal edges stop. I think I will burn through them easily in two years and the core will be exposed. Lib Tech boards just don't last that long, and these choices they make (TNT base, edges, etc) are for making a board that won't last long. 

Don't get me wrong, my Hot Knife is a great board to ride and it's a ton of fun, but I've put more epoxy on it to fix top sheet damage than any other board I've owned, even compared to my 09 Flow Quantum I rode a ridiculous amount. I think Lib Tech gets away with selling low quality boards at high prices because they make stuff that's fun to ride, and of course as this thread mentioned, marketing. I am definitely an extreme case, I rode over 100 miles downhill according to my Sportler thing last week alone. But they just don't last, yet they are fun to ride. And that is their market.


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## lab49232 (Sep 13, 2011)

SEWiShred said:


> I don't think it has anything to do with costs, the material for snowboard edging is like $5 for two pieces to do an entire snowboard, and that's if you buy it on snowboardmaterials.com, the actual cost for snowboard edging is probably half of that for someone buying in bulk. It probably costs more to have someone properly router and machine the edges to line up in labor than it does for the material to do the whole edge.
> 
> I think Lib Tech does it because of planned obsolescence, so your board needs to be replaced sooner. The part on my Hot Knife where the metal edges end, the base material is being worn down a lot. I ride a ton, my old board you can see the imprints of the snowboard edging where it goes into the base where I drive it toe edge.
> View attachment 162090
> ...


God this just goes to show how bad misinformation is to correct. 

The first half of this is completely correct. It's not a cost saving measure, that was a myth greatly pushed for a while here by a group with a mild vendetta at the time. And despite correction for years, it still remains heavily believed by some as a result.The required difference in production and manufacturing negates any of the $0.0005 worth of metal they would save per board.

The planned obsolescence though, well that's actually the exact opposite of what is going on, but it does go to show how deep we've built distrust in companies and products. It actually an attempt to protect and prolong the life of the board.

Where the metal edge ends it is hooked back in to the board and in to the core material. This is designed to keep the edge from ripping out of the board. The core of the board also ends where the metal edge ends as its the end of the functional part of the snowboard. The number one areas of damage to snowboards are tip and tail. By ending the metal edge and core before the impact areas it basically gives your snowboard a bumper. Now you can go smash your board in to a rail, jam it in to the snow, wack some skiiers in the lift lines, etc, and if it damages the nose or tail of the board it doesn't affect the integrity or performance of the board, no repairs needed. If I take my Rome Mod and smash my nose in to a rail I'm stuck hoping it didn't damage the core, going and sealing it, clamping, and hoping that holds for a while.


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## SEWiShred (Jan 19, 2019)

lab49232 said:


> God this just goes to show how bad misinformation is to correct.
> 
> The first half of this is completely correct. It's not a cost saving measure, that was a myth greatly pushed for a while here by a group with a mild vendetta at the time. And despite correction for years, it still remains heavily believed by some as a result.The required difference in production and manufacturing negates any of the $0.0005 worth of metal they would save per board.
> 
> ...


Yeah I understand and agree with the rail/tree/etc damage but some of Lib Tech's boards are just meant for charging groomers and stuff. If you're not at risk of actually hitting anything it seems like it does more harm than good. Hot Knife was designed around riding groomers in horrible conditions, it's actually fantastic at doing it and a ton of fun, but the lack of metal edges really hurt it there. To be honest I'm just miffed because I really like the Hot Knife and it's just not holding up like I thought it would. It makes sense on a park board, or a board for the trees. It doesn't make sense for a board meant for icy and horrible conditions. And that's where my problem with my Hot Knife is. I'd assume someone who buys a Dynamo or EJack Knife would be in the same position.

It probably costs them more to make the metal edges not wrap around because of labor and requiring specific lengths and measurements for the metal edge. I'm assuming the metal edge Mervin uses is a pre-bent shape and someone has to carefully mill/router into the core layers where the edges go. If that's the case someone has to woodwork the core layers and if it's too long the core layer is junk because nothing else would line up. 

Mervin edges make a lot of sense for park/tree boards but for groomer boards and maybe some jumps and side hits it's not really working out for me. I mean I love the board, it's a ton of fun, I just complain because hopefully the right person reads it.


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## Phedder (Sep 13, 2014)

SEWiShred said:


> Yeah I understand and agree with the rail/tree/etc damage but some of Lib Tech's boards are just meant for charging groomers and stuff. If you're not at risk of actually hitting anything it seems like it does more harm than good.


People can and do ride all types of snowboards in all types of terrain/styles. My entire quiver is basically boards I love ripping everywhere on the mountain and they've all seen plenty of both trees and rails 🤷‍♂️


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## lab49232 (Sep 13, 2011)

SEWiShred said:


> Yeah I understand and agree with the rail/tree/etc damage but some of Lib Tech's boards are just meant for charging groomers and stuff. If you're not at risk of actually hitting anything it seems like it does more harm than good. Hot Knife was designed around riding groomers in horrible conditions, it's actually fantastic at doing it and a ton of fun, but the lack of metal edges really hurt it there. To be honest I'm just miffed because I really like the Hot Knife and it's just not holding up like I thought it would. It makes sense on a park board, or a board for the trees. It doesn't make sense for a board meant for icy and horrible conditions. And that's where my problem with my Hot Knife is. I'd assume someone who buys a Dynamo or EJack Knife would be in the same position.
> 
> It probably costs them more to make the metal edges not wrap around because of labor and requiring specific lengths and measurements for the metal edge. I'm assuming the metal edge Mervin uses is a pre-bent shape and someone has to carefully mill/router into the core layers where the edges go. If that's the case someone has to woodwork the core layers and if it's too long the core layer is junk because nothing else would line up.
> 
> Mervin edges make a lot of sense for park/tree boards but for groomer boards and maybe some jumps and side hits it's not really working out for me. I mean I love the board, it's a ton of fun, I just complain because hopefully the right person reads it.


huh? The metal goes to the contact point, you aren't losing any metal edge contact with the snow... Your tip and tail are always at risk for damage, rails, lift lines, setting the tip down in snow or on pavement in board racks. Theres literally no downside and only possible positives.

Not sure what's causing your issues with your hot knife, maybe it's mental an in your head, maybe you just prefer the design of the other boards but it's definitely not from lack of metal on the nose and tail.


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## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

Not full wrap saving money is not about the material savings, it's the time savings. Knowing how Mervin makes boards, as that's how Signal made them in Huntington more or less, when you put a full wrap edge on a base before it goes into the press it can be a pain in the ass. If you clue the edge to the base like we did, and do it a day or more before it gets pressed you can deal with "warping" bases. If the humidity or temperature changes, the base material will expand or contract slightly, but the edge wont. It can mean more inconsitent pressing. With no full wrap this effect is WAY less. It also takes WAY less time to lay an edge when it isn't full wrapped.

I used to give Mervins a hard time for this, cause we would see them get snagged and ripped off bases pretty frequently. Can't say I've seen that happen in recent memory. Not to mention there are MANY ski brands that run this same contruction. They might be easier to damage, but they are also easier to fix. Would I choose it for Nerd? Not likely. But I could see future designs for certain applications making sense.


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## SupperJumps (9 mo ago)

robotfood99 said:


> Since I'm sidelined with a broken wrist, I'd take any rental if only I could get back on snow but the ones I am looking forward to mounting up when I take my cast off are the Optimistic and the Alchemist. Give me a quiver or give me death.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Did you mount up the Optimistic and the Alchemist? Curious about how those two compare and which you preferred... or if you like both of them in the same quiver.


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## robotfood99 (Mar 19, 2016)

SupperJumps said:


> Did you mount up the Optimistic and the Alchemist? Curious about how those two compare and which you preferred... or if you like both of them in the same quiver.


Welcome to the forum. 

Can't really say I prefer one over the other. Optimistic is a short/fat (for me anyway) turny slashy plaything but wouldn't be my first choice to take up to the steeps. It's best on moderate pitches with groomed runs or little pockets of pow. Alchemist is almost the polar opposite. It has regular width & length and rides the mountain like its freeride directional shape is meant to. It can also mimic the short, twitchy turns that the Optimistic specializes at, so if anything I think the Alchemist is the more versatile of the two.


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