# "That Board Will Ride You"????



## BurtonAvenger (Aug 14, 2007)

Think about giving a 15 year old a brand new Lambo and putting him on the Autobahn, that should sum it up pretty well.


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## Lamps (Sep 3, 2011)

This is a bs argument, a board for experts might make your learning a little bumpier but it will also discipline your riding style, and keep you honest. There's a risk of getting frustrated if you catch a lot of edges but as long as you're not a quitter you'll work through that. 

The recommended path is to get a nice easy board to learn on but it's no big deal.


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## BurtonAvenger (Aug 14, 2007)

HAHA go give a never ever a stiff ass directional cambered board 10cm's too big and see how well they learn how to turn. 

Why make something that already has a horrible retention rate any harder? Make it easy.


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## chomps1211 (Mar 30, 2011)

BurtonAvenger said:


> HAHA go give a never ever a stiff ass directional cambered board 10cm's too big and see how well they learn how to turn...


_Ahh,_ so you've seen me on my board??? 
2010/11 Arbor Roundhouse 163W directional twin-cambered deck! Purchased in the spring of 2011 after my first two days out riding a rental!


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## StreetDoc (Dec 24, 2011)

chomps I learned on higher end boards too... 15 or so years ago. I started on a 1998 Burton Custom 148 and then a 2000 Burton FL project 162. I'm still here


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## zk0ot (Nov 9, 2009)

With todays reverse camber is making this a grey area i feel. (if the board is sized correctly) 
But typically those top shelf boards were made for aggressive, full-out, riding. Flex made strong enough to rebound a hard fast rider. Edges generally sharpen to a finer degree. Skills needed to be a bit more defined to ride. 
When you throw a beginner on it. they typically arent carving at full speed to flex the board as necessary. Little mistakes are magnified and are punished by them. 

Why buy a 700 dollar board? when you get zero benefit? and actually makes it harder. 

a board with a flex that is rated your level or slightly above will help you keep good technique and your face out of the snow.


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## BurtonAvenger (Aug 14, 2007)

StreetDoc said:


> chomps I learned on higher end boards too... 15 or so years ago. I started on a 1998 Burton Custom 148 and then a 2000 Burton FL project 162. I'm still here


98 Custom wasn't that gnarly of a board I had one. High end for the time but by 2000 that shape/flex pattern had dropped down to the Air. Also how do you go up 14cms in just 2 years?


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## StreetDoc (Dec 24, 2011)

BurtonAvenger said:


> 98 Custom wasn't that gnarly of a board I had one. High end for the time but by 2000 that shape/flex pattern had dropped down to the Air. Also how do you go up 14cms in just 2 years?


newbie having no idea what he's doing. I think I did hit a growth spurt around that time but not much, I know my feet got a couple sizes bigger because the FL was a disaster.. way to narrow for my size 12 boots and I was dragging toe and eating shit all over the place. I didn't have it more than a season, I can't recall what came next though.


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## Lamps (Sep 3, 2011)

BurtonAvenger said:


> HAHA go give a never ever a stiff ass directional cambered board 10cm's too big and see how well they learn how to turn.
> 
> Why make something that already has a horrible retention rate any harder? Make it easy.


I agree that newbies should be directed to easy equipment, nobody's saying that the right path is to make the T7 the first board of choice, just that it's not that big a deal if they get in over their head to start. 

For a lot of us here I expect we were hooked after the first decent glide down a slope and all the caught edges in the world didn' t get in the way of trying to get another faster run to work out.


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## chomps1211 (Mar 30, 2011)

BurtonAvenger said:


> Think about giving a 15 year old a brand new Lambo and putting him on the Autobahn, that should sum it up pretty well.


Hmmmn,.. interesting analogy. If I follow thru on the comparison, (...leaving out any "shifting" issues which wouldn't seem to apply.)

...I imagine that 15 year old would first off, hit the gas WAY too hard, get going far too fast. Panic, Over/under steer in the turns. Ass end fishtailing, spinning out! He wouldn't be able to brake properly or with any semblance of control,.. Eventually crashing thru the guardrails, flying off the shoulder & smashing into the trees in a flaming heap!!! 

OK,.. you really _have_ seen me out on my board haven't you! (_...Yeah, like you'd actually visit S.E. MI. for snowboarding!!!_) :laugh:

So, I guess I should be reasonably stoked that I _have_ actually managed to learn to ride using this board without suffering any sort of debilitating crash? :dunno:

[edit]
My Local hill is having a Demo Day on the 27th of Dec. 3 manufacturers attending for Burton, K2, & Rome. I would like to try riding a few different boards, especially a true twin to see if my switch riding gets a little easier. Any recommendation on any particular models I should try and demo? _(...don't know how many models/options will be available and don't want to waste too much time riding something too far from my skill set)_


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## Lamps (Sep 3, 2011)

chomps1211 said:


> So, I guess I should be reasonably stoked that I _have_ actually managed to learn to ride using this board without suffering any sort of debilitating crash? :dunno:


I wouldn't pop any champagne corks just yet; just because you didn't kill yourself on a non-beginner board isn't necessarily a sign of god given stupendous hidden talent, so I'd keep that day job until you're actually been signed to a pro team or make the US olympic squad. :laugh:


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## BurtonAvenger (Aug 14, 2007)

chomps1211 said:


> Hmmmn,.. interesting analogy. If I follow thru on the comparison, (...leaving out any "shifting" issues which wouldn't seem to apply.)
> 
> ...I imagine that 15 year old would first off, hit the gas WAY too hard, get going far too fast. Panic, Over/under steer in the turns. Ass end fishtailing, spinning out! He wouldn't be able to brake properly or with any semblance of control,.. Eventually crashing thru the guardrails, flying off the shoulder & smashing into the trees in a flaming heap!!!
> 
> ...


What I can't come to Michigan to get my rope tow shred on?


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## chomps1211 (Mar 30, 2011)

BurtonAvenger said:


> What I can't come to Michigan to get my rope tow shred on?


Absolutely you _can_!! Love to have ya here!! ...just didn't think you _would_!!! :laugh:
_(...I'll even give you my glove protectors for the rope!!!)_ 



Lamps said:


> I wouldn't pop any champagne corks just yet; just because you didn't kill yourself on a non-beginner board isn't necessarily a sign of god given stupendous hidden talent, so I'd keep that day job until you're actually been signed to a pro team or make the US olympic squad. :laugh:


:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: Yeah,.. I didn't mean to suggest _anything_ like that!! :laugh: :laugh: ...still, maybe it suggest's a teeny, tiny "_little bitty_" ability/talent?? _Maybe_??


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## Lamps (Sep 3, 2011)

chomps1211 said:


> :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: Yeah,.. I didn't mean to suggest _anything_ like that!! :laugh: :laugh: ...still, maybe it suggest's a teeny, tiny "_little bitty_" ability/talent?? _Maybe_??


or a hard skull


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## Edge (Sep 30, 2012)

First time on the slopes.

Buys Burton Custom X 10cm too big.


*endless laughs for the rest of us*


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## BurtonAvenger (Aug 14, 2007)

Glove protector? Sir I ride bare handed.


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## chomps1211 (Mar 30, 2011)

Lamps said:


> or a hard skull


:laugh:  :laugh:
...truth be told, I got hurt _far_ worse my first two rides on the rental equip. than I have since. I got a Hip Pointer injury that first night & after mickey mousing some DIY hip protectors, re- injured it the very next week! :eusa_clap: _(...I had to convince the ski patrol I didn't need to be stretchered!)_ :laugh:


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## chomps1211 (Mar 30, 2011)

BurtonAvenger said:


> Glove protector? Sir I ride bare handed.


:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :laugh:


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## MikeIn248 (Dec 6, 2011)

chomps1211, my experience has some things in common with yours.

My first season riding (15 days) I made very good progress, but it was all on crappy rental boards. I bought my first board at the start of my second season. It was a (directional, cambered) Donek, which are pretty stiff. (I was on a forum at the time full of Donek fans, both soft booters and hard booters, and was heavily influenced by the group think there.)

My first two or three days on that board were like a wrestling match. I thought I lost all skills I learned my first year. I couldn't make that thing work, no way no how. At some point I said the hell with trying to turn this beast and I straightlined a run. As I picked up a scary-for-me bit of speed I managed to tilt the thing on edge a bit, and holy shit that edge set in and I pulled a wicked carved turn. So that whole season I spent figuring out how that board wanted to be ridden. That thing really wanted to go fast and be on edge. What I had to learn was there was no way I could manhandle that board: I had to learn to control it with subtle movements and finesse. Now, after some years' riding, I can take that board for a ride, but that first season I can agree that it was the one taking me for a ride.

You mentioned Arbor -- I don't know their products, but I remember a few years back when the A-Frame seemed to be all the rage and I used to see guys wrestling with them all the time, just like I had done with the with the Donek.

Unfortunately, my season's on hold right now with an injury. I'll post to the Michigan thread if/when I'll be out again locally. (I am the rope tow master!)


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## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

As a noob, year 2 with an option vinson/trinity fr stiffy...that thing beat my ass for about a season and a half; first time I've literally saw stars :dizzy:...another time thought I had ripped some neck/head arterial due to sharp stabbing/burning pain in the neck and could taste blood but there wasn't any...and don't remember even biffing. Part of being taken for a ride, is that as a noob you don't have the aggressive attitude, the skills to see the snow/terrain, the body awareness to anticipate or have confidence in the board nor the skills to control the board. Thus the board knows/designed to do what it does best...and if high end...usually likes to go fast, react to the terrain, is stiffer so it literally bucks/rebounds and keeps going.


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## Lamps (Sep 3, 2011)

Edge said:


> First time on the slopes.
> 
> Buys Burton Custom X 10cm too big.
> 
> ...


the bigger mistake here is not taking a lesson. I think you could put any fool on an oversided custom X and send them off for a few hours of coaching with SnowWolf and they'd come back with some good basic skills and stoked for more


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## vltsai (Jan 20, 2011)

Got a Lib Tech Jamie Lynn Phoenix after 5 days on the mountain. I was a bit heavier back then so it was a 160. Never would I have imagined how fast that thing would take me vs my cousin's 5150. Whooped my ass till I figured out how to make it dance.

Best way to learn? Probably not, but for me, I like to know that I'm in over my head. Barring personal injury, it's only made me want to try harder and get better. And when I did, that board was wonderful.


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## hot-ice (Nov 6, 2011)

> :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: Yeah,.. I didn't mean to suggest _anything_ like that!! :laugh: :laugh: ...still, maybe it suggest's a teeny, tiny "_little bitty_" ability/talent?? _Maybe_??


I would say your not doing to bad for an old man.


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## mixie (Mar 29, 2011)

I learned to ride on a stiff directional cambered board but it was 10cm too small for me. Which might be just as bad as too long.

It wasn't too painful until I tried to take it on anything steep or god forbid moguls!!! There was more then one painful faceplant for sure. I once tried to zip up my jacket will riding on a cat track and it just dumped me on my ass. hard. But it makes me appreciate my nice new board that much more.

I can't even bear the idea of using that thing for a rock board. Tho I do like taking it off jumps....it like "booiiiiiiooooiiiiooooiiinnggg!"


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## AIRider (Dec 25, 2010)

I learned on a 180 Skunk Ape. Yeah it sucked in the beginning, but after some time I made her my bitch and now she listens to what I say. Makes me sandwiches too. Fucking skank.


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## 24WERD (May 9, 2012)

I learned on a lib-tech skate banana which was perfect, but the conditions were whiteout and dumping. Not exactly idea for learning my first season. Got a FISH in the off season. but didn't ride it till 2nd season.

Got rid of it and got a GNU RC, so much better and stable for my 2nd season, but no pop.

Got an GNU DK 2 months in for sunny park days, got a GNU BG 3 month in for MT riding.

Some people are fast learners and some aren't.

It all depends how athletic one person it.


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## TorpedoVegas (Dec 25, 2011)

You guys had it easy....My first "snowboard" was a Black Snow snowboard...13 years old..size 145...had metal edges, but no base and was basically a toy... But I still tore the shit out of Lake Louise on it! I can't believe they actually let me on a chair lift with that thing... But it was probably 1987-88... I went from throwing myself down black diamond moguls on that piece of hell, straight into a Kemper 165 Freestyle a year or so later... Just a little bit of a change... All the while rocking my Sorels with ski boot liners! I'm pretty sure those board were riding me at the time, especially with a +20/+10 narrow stance and the most uncomfortable bindings ever... I used to duct tape pieces of carpet underlay foam onto the binding straps to reduce the insane amount of foot pain.


Before those days we tried making our own snowboards and we used to take the trucks off of our skateboard decks, feed shoelaces through the holes and tie our boot down, and Ride them backwards down the hill.... But that was just on the local sledding hills, etc. 

Holy shit I'm old


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## Sudden_Death (Mar 23, 2011)

TorpedoVegas said:


> You guys had it easy....My first "snowboard" was a Black Snow snowboard...13 years old..size 145...had metal edges, but no base and was basically a toy... But I still tore the shit out of Lake Louise on it! I can't believe they actually let me on a chair lift with that thing... But it was probably 1987-88... I went from throwing myself down black diamond moguls on that piece of hell, straight into a Kemper 165 Freestyle a year or so later... Just a little bit of a change... All the while rocking my Sorels with ski boot liners! I'm pretty sure those board were riding me at the time, especially with a +20/+10 narrow stance and the most uncomfortable bindings ever... I used to duct tape pieces of carpet underlay foam onto the binding straps to reduce the insane amount of foot pain.
> 
> 
> Before those days we tried making our own snowboards and we used to take the trucks off of our skateboard decks, feed shoelaces through the holes and tie our boot down, and Ride them backwards down the hill.... But that was just on the local sledding hills, etc.
> ...


Ha! My story is pretty much the same as yours. We would staple crazy carpet to our skateboards in the winter, didn't think to use the laces. My Blacksnow didn't have the edges so I had to wait to get the Kemper before hitting an actual resort hill. I was riding the 165 at maybe 120 lbs. The only way I could get it to turn was a half jump turn to unweight the thing enough to get it around.


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## timmytard (Mar 19, 2009)

Well I've been riding this Palmer a little bit lately, it only likes to go straight down & I know it can go faster than me. This thing is fuckin' lightning. 
Palmer Snowobard

But it's almost no fun to ride. 
You can't relax @ all, it's like a fucking job.
I haven't ate shit on it yet, thank god, cause fuck is it ever gonna hurt.

When it gets choppy & shitty, you gotta watch out. With this type of board it's really hard to "make a save" if you will.
You know, when for a second you are out of control & you are fighting with everything you have to make it out alive. 
This is a split second thing, once you're out of control, you have a fraction of a second too "make a save". 
Some boards you can just manipulate & pull out of it every time.

This one, not so much. I've had a couple heart stoppers on this thing already.
So close to eating shit viciously, my fuckin' life flashes before my eye's.
For the next ten min or so it gives me heebeegeebees/goosebumps 

This is one of those boards.
If anyone around me wants to try it, you're more than welcome.

I've also noticed that, if you didn't started out on a camber deck, a normal camber deck is really hard to ride. Every person I know that started on any sort of rocker/hybrid, hates regular cambered boards. 


TT


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## timmytard (Mar 19, 2009)

Sounds like we were all rockin' the Kemper 165 @ about the same time?

The ole ski boot liners in the Sorels were the cats ass back then.

I know where a mint Kemper 165 is right now too, looks brand new.
I stashed it just encase.

TT


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## Magnum626 (Dec 31, 2009)

My first board was a Ride Timeless. I still miss that thing even if it's just hanging on my wall. I had a borrowed morrow board before that to learn on. It got stuck on snow even when waxed, basically no edges. And was slow as heck. While my friends were having fun on bumps in the snow I was getting launched off to hell. Every little bump made me twitchy and was so hard on my legs. Everyone else was wondering why I was just landing on my ass when they would be able to ride over those same bumps.

It definitely made me a better ride as the season went on, learned to hold and edge and keep my knees bent. Learned how to absorb bumps and really carve down the mountain. Learning curve was definitely different for me and my buddies.

I would still suggest a 'new' person to have a softer board initially though. It'll make learning easier/less painful. And it won't leave them as frustrated. But if you already have one you just have to be more sensitive and aware IMO.


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## Treegreen (Mar 16, 2012)

I learned on a stiff camber my first year (granted if it was too long it wasn't by much), and still enjoy riding it to this day. It definitely had a bit of a learning curve on making turns w/o eating it, and flat cat tracks were the scariest thing in the world for a while.


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## seriouscat (Jan 23, 2012)

In my limited experience my stiff board (raptor) is really fun and precise for the first 4 hours. The last couple runs of the day are the crappy part. 

At that point fatigue sets in, and I haven't had the 100+ days of experience for my muscle memory to be there when I am not concentrating. The board will punish every bad form. I am at a point I can save most of those, but it makes a very exhausting end of the day.


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## SnowRock (Feb 28, 2011)

I learned on a 92/93 K2 AC 161 which was the smallest of the sizes I could get for an "all mountain" board from K2 at the time. I think I had the choice between the 161, a 166 and 176 if I recall. I really wanted the Farmer pro model but I think it only came in a 166 and felt too big to me. That thing definitely rode me.. was damm stiff, especially at the size and my size at the time, fast as hell too. There was no lazy riding on that thing. 

I ride a Salomon Man's board now and it is also a board that requires some focus, I tend not to push my luck if I feel I am getting tired. Would rather call it a day a run early and feel great the next morning than get sloppy and end up paying for it. I'm also getting old which may factor into that decision process.


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## JeffreyCH (Nov 21, 2009)

I learned my lesson from buying my first wakeboards. My first wake deck was an out dated Connely that was shaped like a small surfboard, that thing was a tank. Took me forever to get it up on the water. My second one was a cheap Hydroslide true twin, this one was a hell of a lot easier to get up on plane, but still sucked to ride. So when I decided to plunk down some real money for a set up, I started doing a lot of research, and asking questions on forums. I ended up with a Hyperlite Premier, loved that board rode the same shape for about 6 years. 3 years ago I switched to a Murray pro model, felt like I had to learn to ride alll over again, very unforgiving, and very fast. 

When I moved from rentals to my first snowboard, I did a ton of research, and landed here. I ended up with a K2 Brigade 163w that I still ride 4 years later. It's classified as a intermediate all-mountain board, works perfect for me. This year I did pick up a Nitro Target 157w because I wanted something a little more playful, spent Fri. trying to get used to the shorter deck. It's still a kind of stiff all-mountain deck, but with it being shorter and my weight (230) it flexes good, I can butter the shit out of it. 

I guess my main point is, when buying a first deck, do some research, don't just plunk down a shit load of cash because you think more expensive is better. Try to find reviews of a couple different models that fit what style of riding you want to progress in. If I would have jumped from beginner/rental right to pro level boards in either sport I think things would be way different in the way I progressed.


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## MarshallV82 (Apr 6, 2011)

I learned on a old stiff Camber board I bought off craigslist. The Bindings were always falling apart to, I remember having to steal little screws from the dash of my car or I used bailing wire to fix them.. I was to stupid to bring extra hardware I guess. 

It was painted like a Coors light beer, and had "Be Original" on the bottom. Somebody must of got it as a bonus/gift from the Coors plant in Golden. CO. years, and years ago. 

Used it for my first couple of years, when I bought my first good board/Bindings and boots I was in shock how much nicer it rode and how much easier it was on my feet! 


I still have the Board, It's hanging in my basement above the bar.


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## Fiziks (Sep 7, 2012)

In my opinion, "that board will ride you" would just mean, it will be tough for you to control. This would simply just be with respect to a board too long and too stiff for a newb. But as the rest of this thread has clearly pointed out, in the end it doesn't really matter now does it? All these people with examples of broken, ill-fitting boards as their first, yet they are still here. If you go out and fall in love with riding, but get the wrong board as your first, it doesn't matter. You will still go out and ride your ass off and eventually beat up your board enough to buy a new one. 

Outside of that scenario, anyone that says, "that board will ride you" to a newb that bought a board that is too "advanced" (aka expensive) for that newb's skill level, is just jelly that the newb can afford a shinier stick than they can.


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## Zolemite (Dec 13, 2012)

I started on a BlackSnow Master. Then rode a Burton woody, then I had a Look.


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## chomps1211 (Mar 30, 2011)

Thanks for all the feedback guy's & gal's! I can't believe how many of you started off with such crappy, "mickey moused" or just plain DIY equipment??? _(...or for that matter, how many of you must be some seriously "Old Farts" like myself!!!)_ 

You *ALL* have my Eternal Gratitude for sticking with it and helping to develop & create this sport so I could come along so many years later and discover just how much I love it!!!!!



Fiziks said:


> ...Outside of that scenario, anyone that says, "that board will ride you" to a newb that bought a board that is too "advanced" (aka expensive) for that newb's skill level, is just jelly that the newb can afford a shinier stick than they can.


...I _DO_ get an awful lot of compliments on my Arbor board!!!


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## AAA (Feb 2, 2008)

Yes, that basically means the board will be hard to control, either in terms of initiating slow speed, skidded turns, or keeping speed under control when carving. Taken to all extremes, a very stiff, long board, with a large sidecut radius will require a delicate balance of finesse and manhandling to make skidded turns. Likewise, it will take a significant amount of skill and aggressiveness to make it turn tight, with a controlled speed when carving.

The most difficult board I've ridden to turn at slow speeds has been an Oxygen Proton 178. An alpine deck, it was quite stiff, and exhausting to ride with hardboots if the day demanded skidded turns. Skidding turns felt like riding a 2x6. It felt sluggish when carving at slow speeds, too...but there was a magic speed when it came alive and vaulted from carve to carve. THAT's where it became extraordinary.

My current ride is the most demanding (and the most rewarding) board I've ridden at speed. It's a Coiler 182 new school race, ridden with plates and hardboots. With a 17-meterish progressive sidecut, it will jetison down the fall line at the slightest whiff of intrepidation, but will also pull mind-boggling G's and ass-to-snow carves when aggressively (and correctly) powered. It eats ice for breakfast when I arrive on-slope, on time, and can deliver the correct balance of finesse and power. It's unbelievable, really, but certainly not something I'd set a beginner down on.

BTW, I love seeing some of these old boards mentioned. My first board was a homemade plywood deal, painted to look like a Burton Backhill in the mid-80's. I didn't have a Black Snow (or similar deal, I forget) until the late 80's. I didn't get my first Burton until 1990!

Vintage...
















Yeah, baby, that was cutting edge and extreme...and I had hair!!! :laugh:


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