# riding switch



## blockay (Jan 4, 2013)

i am terrible at riding switch i tried a couple times over last weekend but i just can't manage to do it. any1 have some tips that might make learning to ride switch easier? also my bindings are set at about 14 and 12. my front foot being 14.


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## sheepstealer (Aug 19, 2009)

Are you riding +14 and +12 OR +14 and -12? Clarifying this would help. If you're riding +/+ it would help to set your rear binding to either 0 or anywhere between 0 and -15. 

A "negative" on your back foot would mean your back foot is pointing away from your opposite foot. Doing this first will help your setup to be more switch-friendly.

As for actually riding switch, practice, practice, practice. Force yourself to do it. Set goals. (I.e. I'll ride this green circle trail entirely switch). 

I find that when I coach my athletes (who are younger), all have a tendency to ride in the backseat, meaning they lean back onto their back foot to try and control their board, which is wrong. Your weight should be on your front foot 100% of the time. 

Can you give us more info on what you're doing wrong? What it feels like? I'm sure Snowolf will chime in eventually...but any more info would help.


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## hktrdr (Apr 3, 2012)

sheepstealer said:


> Your weight should be on your front foot 100% of the time.


Wrong :blowup:


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## blockay (Jan 4, 2013)

lol idk man its a duckfoot stance. i stand straight up i just fall right on my ass, i guess i was focusing on keeping up with my dad instead of trying to practice. next time i go i'll just do some green runs and practice.


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## aiidoneus (Apr 7, 2011)

For me, I ride switch very often. I like to ride with my stance angles the same (+18,-18). I know people who ride switch more like yourself (+14,-12), so it is possible.

The reality of switch for most people is that you have to consider it starting over, and assume you can't actually ride a snowboard. Otherwise people try and ride switch on blues or blacks and wonder why they crash so much. Head back to the bunny hills (Suck it up, if you think you are too good for greens).

When riding switch, people usually have the same problems they used to:

- Riding in the back seat which means too much weight on the back foot
- Riding open, not keeping your shoulders and body in general in line with the board.
- Riding too tall, not keeping your knees, ankles slightly bent with the back up straight.

So, in summary head back to the greens and try out some novice turns switch. Trying to focus on keeping the weight mostly balanced, with a little extra on the front foot.


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## blockay (Jan 4, 2013)

awesome, thanks aiidoneus and snowolf. i'll definitely move down to lower terrain to practice riding switch


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## liner (Jan 8, 2013)

best advice i can give is go ride some easy greens or blues, even the bunny hill! and have fun with it. laugh when you fall, and get into. focus on figuring out how your turning regular and just slow it down and do it switch. just go slow at first. 

If you really wanna go big, strap in switch and skate around one footed for a bit. Just get really comfortable lifting the board with your non dominant foot. get it used to being it front. do the lift switch(nice and easy, remember you always have your back foot free to the "chicken skate" off and on. and remember to laugh and have fun. I bet I look like a fool laughing to myself when i fall, but I swear youll never get down and out if your just rollin with it.

^ Also dont forget you you can always flip back around to your regular stance. This might also get you nice and comfy with switching back and forth.

Riding switch confidently was definitely my biggest accomplishment as a rider. you really realize snowboards are twin tipped for a reason. :yahoo: It took a while to get just as comfortable as regular but the trip there is a blast and it only gets better.

nice and slow, and lets see those big turns!

EDIT: Im a avid believer that if you do alot of switch riding you should have an even stance, mines ducked out at 15/-15 extra wide and love it. A narrowed duck might suit you better, but Id at least reccomend trying 12/-12 out regular.


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## sixpoint (Nov 17, 2012)

resist the urge to revert back into your normal riding position & challenge yourself to link 4 turns, then 6, then 8 and so on. the best tip i got for switch riding was to periodically rest my front hand palm on my front thigh while riding switch. this keeps even weight on your feet and helps you to not lean away from the nose.


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## snowklinger (Aug 30, 2011)

some random tips that may or may not work for you:

- ride moguls switch

- strap in switch in and do it the whole day.

- concentrate on learning with a new foot forward, as opposed to trying to learn how to "ride backwards." This is just semantics in your brain, but it has helped me personally.

- go extra athletic, no lazy stance, really get into your quads and lower your hips, press your shins over your toes, keep your body square. I tend to ride a pretty lazy stance in primary with no worries but that laziness will get me an instant scorpion riding switch.


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## MarshallV82 (Apr 6, 2011)

snowklinger said:


> - go extra athletic, no lazy stance, really get into your quads and lower your hips, press your shins over your toes, keep your body square. I tend to ride a pretty lazy stance in primary with no worries but that laziness will get me an instant scorpion riding switch.


This is great advice! That was a huge thing for me, riding lazy when learning switch caused me a lot of pain. I forgot how much slamming on cat tracks hurt. I feel like its almost worse than knuckling a small jump. learning switch on a mellow blue or a steeper green opposed to a gentle slope is key.


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## Consonantal (Dec 12, 2012)

Am I really lucky that even after 3 years of riding regular, I picked up switch pretty quickly?

It felt awkward at first but I started linking turns really easily after a couple runs.


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## blockay (Jan 4, 2013)

i personally would think that you pick it up quicker if you already have a good feel of the board, i haven't tried it too much on green runs. when i tried i fell like 4 times on a blue and gave up haha. im probably not snowboarding for a while 3 weeks+ but i feel like i can do it now.

i can go pretty quick regular stance on groomed runs but moguls are challenging for me. i ride a magnetraction 161 wide (supposedly flex rating of 7), size 12 feet, 6'3, 135-140 pounds. would a smaller flexier board be easier in the moguls? or should i stick with it?


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## liner (Jan 8, 2013)

Consonantal said:


> Am I really lucky that even after 3 years of riding regular, I picked up switch pretty quickly?
> 
> It felt awkward at first but I started linking turns really easily after a couple runs.


Eh. It's just one if those things you gotta practice and stick with to get good. If you have the willpower to constantly ride back and forth more power to you!


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## pencap75 (Dec 10, 2008)

Resist the urge to switch back to regular when things get gnarly.
I used to do it all time, so I wouldn't crash and look stupid, but the only way to learn switch is stay committed to it until its in muscle memory.

Don't be embarrassed to go back to the bunny hill. Just don't wear your snowboard thug outfit that day that all the kids like to dress these days.


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## ARSENALFAN (Apr 16, 2012)

I was doing pretty good and decided to pick up the tempo on a blue run. Then I caught a nasty edge and wrenched my wrist. At that point I pretty much decided that switch riding will be used when coming out of 180s and that is it. I get too cocky and confident riding switch on groomers and then always pay a price with a nasty fall. I don't find it difficult at all to ride switch. It is difficult to avoid injury....haha


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## Sudden_Death (Mar 23, 2011)

It really is a weird feeling. I have been riding 24 years and never felt the need to ride switch but decided this year I'd give it a try. I REALLY wish I had tried sooner as that is a lot of years of habit to overcome. I will get it one day.:laugh:


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## david_z (Dec 14, 2009)

Here's a comment to similar question that I posted elsewhere... maybe this will help you.

Remember the first time you ever strapped in? You probably sucked riding regular, too. I did. So did pretty much everyone else. You got good at riding regular only through days or weeks of practice and repetition, developing your muscle memory, board feel, balance, etc.

If you have no control it's probably because you're favoring your back leg (which is normally your front leg -- there's that pesky muscle memory doing you a disservice!). You want your weight forward when riding regular and likewise for switch. But you're very accustomed to weighting a _particular_ leg, and this habit is impeding your ability to ride switch. When you're in the back seat, you lose the ability to effectively control your board. (Think of all the beginners who, when riding regular, instinctually "lean back" like they're afraid of the hill, and weight the back leg which results in crashes).

When teaching yourself how to ride switch, you're gonna have to break it down to baby steps.

*First*, start riding regular and actually pause to reflect on what you're doing, and why (if you can't mentally break down your motions, you're going to have a hard time trying to reconstruct that technique to switch stance). *If you can't do this*, do not proceed to steps 2 et seq. Get a lesson and tell them you are specifically interested in learning how to ride switch.

*Then, apply it*. Take those steps (where do I weight, how should I properly initiate a turn, then how do I link another turn, balance, etc.) and very deliberately put them in to practice.

*Third*, once you're OK linking the pieces, force yourself to ride an entire trail in your switch stance. Do it until you can ride the entire trail without falling or stopping. You can go as slow as you need, just don't stop, stay in motion.

*Fourth* Once your comfy riding switch, pop some 180s at low, then moderate, then higher speeds and make at least a few turns before reverting to forward stance. Get used to riding switch at higher speeds. Then go back to step three and ride an entire trail a little faster.

*Lather, rinse, repeat*. Just like riding regular, practice makes perfect.

Do these slowly at first. Preferably on blue terrain. You will fall a few times. You will probably be able to negotiate a trail within 1-2 days. With repeated practice, you'll increase confidence. Shortly, you'll be decent enough that you don't fall anymore. Then it's just a matter of practice, practice, practice as you increase the speeds at which you're comfortable.


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## slyder (Jan 18, 2010)

Like Wolf said, keeping the weight forward or stance centered was/is hardest for me. I will be riding and start to get sketchy it is almost always because my weight is back. I often tell myself, even out loud at times. " Keep your weight forward " and as stated already take it on greens and gentle blues. I'm glad I learned it. If nothing it is another skill I have learned during my short career as a snowboarder


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## IdahoFreshies (Jul 9, 2011)

through my 2 day instructor training I spend 80% of the time riding switch, so i basically learned how to ride switch by practicing and revisiting the very basics, in level 1-3 rider progression. After 2 days of doing this I can ride switch very confidently on steeper/rough blue terrain (at night with 3" of fresh snow to be precise :laugh

Biggest things I had to fix when taking my switch to blue terrain where I really found where my weak points were, basic skills that seemed to just get lost when I went switch:

Commit the entire edge to the turn! Because you are not confident with the switch turn you are not mentally fully committing the entire edge into that turn, so make sure when you are going to turn you take special note to just sack up and push that entire edge in the snow.

Dip your body to match the slope of the hill through the turn! It was amazing the difference it made when when i went to switch, and I committed that edge and I put more weight on that front foot and i laterally dipped my upper body to the slope of the hill through the turn. 

Until you can carve switch and get more comfortable, get that back leg around quickly soy you are not lingering on finishing the turn. Weather this is with a sweeping motion or some counter rotation get that turn done. 


jumping and spinning 180 on a run then ripping down half the hill switch feels great 

Good luck with it!


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## liner (Jan 8, 2013)

IdahoFreshies said:


> through my 2 day instructor training I spend 80% of the time riding switch, so i basically learned how to ride switch by practicing and revisiting the very basics, in level 1-3 rider progression. After 2 days of doing this I can ride switch very confidently on steeper/rough blue terrain (at night with 3" of fresh snow to be precise :laugh
> 
> Biggest things I had to fix when taking my switch to blue terrain where I really found where my weak points were, basic skills that seemed to just get lost when I went switch:
> 
> ...


Not to get OT to much, but I love it when the apline skiers try to race by me through the rolls and ill pop back to back 180's, end on switch and keep cruisin with them. 

Prob one of the coolest "oh yea" moments haha


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## Oldman (Mar 7, 2012)

Not only are we one foot dominant, our front foot when riding regular, but that entire side of our body is dominant.

When learning to ride switch, I found it really helps to think of keeping your shoulders in line with your board. That forces your dominant side to stay at the "back of the bus" over the back of your board, where it belongs. 

When learning switch your dominant side will still want to "lead" and that is completely counter productive. You goal is to learn to be comfortable with either side of your body being the "boss".


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## chomps1211 (Mar 30, 2011)

I learned to ride switch on a set back, directional twin, board. So when I was switch, the geometry of the board was different, shorter, stiffer nose etc.

I was lucky though because early in learning to ride reg. I had a problem where when turning I often would go all way round and end up switch!! I could ride it out straight & heel side turn back to reg, but it kept happening and I didn't know why! Got some instruction/advice about not opening my shoulders and keeping them in alignment with the board,.. paying particular attention to that & it worked. I stopped spinning round when turning!

The upside being, switch didn't freak me out! BUT,.. I could NOT do a toe side turn switch!! At ALL! Crashed every time I tried! I figured it was the directional board that was the problem! (...it wasn't!!)

I took a lesson specifically for switch, (...from same guy who helped with spinning.) Two tips made the diff. for me,..

1. Point my lead arm & shoulder into my turns! Just like when I was learning to link turns reg.

2. Flex/pull my bent knees together towards ea. other for toe side turns, causing my feet & bindings to twist/flex board's contact points for the turn,..

Flex/push my knees out, away from ea. other for heel side! All while using my arms and shoulders to point into the turn & keep my upper body in the proper config.!

if you can't picture the motion I'm talking about,.. stand on the floor, slightly on your toes, feet apart, bend your knees, now bring your knees together till they touch, now push them apart. That's the movement that flexes the board! once I could do that slowly and in control, I started adding more dynamic movement to my switch riding & turning!

I ride switch on greens and blues top to bottom on my directional twin now, and my new true twin?? Shit, I almost look like I know what I'm doing!!


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## freshy (Nov 18, 2009)

All that advise is good but might just get confusing. When I learned someone just told me do one turn, next time try linking 2 turns, then 3 ect...just set small obtainable goals and practice. Practicing is by far the most important thing you can do.


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## blockay (Jan 4, 2013)

chomps1211 said:


> I ride switch on greens and blues top to bottom on my directional twin now, and my new true twin?? Shit, I almost look like I know what I'm doing!!


good for u! hopefully i can pick up switch easier now with everyones advice


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## East§ide (Mar 14, 2011)

i was lucky enough to have a confused brain from childhood..i skateboard goofy but ollie regular, skimboard goofy, ripstick goofy, surf regular and snowboard regular..so what it boiled down to was that turning switch for me was just about reversing my movements..it took a day or two to figure out how to do that smoothly..now im just sharpening up my carving


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## rasmasyean (Jan 26, 2008)

Well, my story is I rode regular and was able to do double black diamonds my second time snowboarding. Not really fast, but maybe fall only 20% of the way? I took me so much more switch riding I lost count before I can do double blacks. I think like snowolf says, you pretty much are imprinted with your usual riding. Then when you do switch, it feels really arward and scary. Not only muscle memory, but just looking in that direction and having a blind spot on the opposite side is really weird and you just have to force yourself to do it.

Now, to date, I prolly logged more switch than regular because I use it to "save energy" for doing hard stuff regular when the opportunity arises. But STILL if I had to guess, my switch is 80% as good as regular! :laugh:

But I would agree somewhat on the front foot weighting. That's one way to keep your stance switch and not reverting when you don't want to. It's a matter of conciously doing it to break that habit before you body will get used to switch.


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## Donutz (May 12, 2010)

Because of the relatively poor snow conditions this week, I've been practicing switch a lot the last couple of days. It takes a day or two of practice to be able to ride green runs while linking turns cleanly. I think by the end of the week I'll be able to ride anything short of tough blacks in switch.

Biggest problem I'm having right now is that I find my edge transition is delayed when going from heelside to toeside. Kind of a reluctance to commit. I can overcome it by concentrating on it, and eventually I'll be confident enough that it'll be automatic.


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## rwspear (Mar 26, 2012)

ARSENALFAN said:


> At that point I pretty much decided that switch riding will be used when coming out of 180s and that is it.


thats a great idea and all, but if you're not proficient switch throwing 1's on rollers will eventually wreck you anyway


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## Sudden_Death (Mar 23, 2011)

So, any advice on drills or tips to keep your weight forward? I was doing alright yesterday then picked up too much speed and wound up going full on scorpion when trying to revert back to normal.


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## poutanen (Dec 22, 2011)

Snowolf said:


> In an AASI training clinic where we did a lot of switch riding, the TD brought up the whole dominant eye thing as well.


Yeah I went through the same thing, never knew there was a dominant eye until I bought guns! I'm left eye dominant, but shoot my rifles and shotguns right, which really screws me up.

I ride goofy so maybe that's why I'm always trying to rotate my upper body more to get that left eye in front where it wants to be. :dunno:


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## brucew. (Dec 4, 2012)

Donutz said:


> Because of the relatively poor snow conditions this week, I've been practicing switch a lot the last couple of days. It takes a day or two of practice to be able to ride green runs while linking turns cleanly. I think by the end of the week I'll be able to ride anything short of tough blacks in switch.
> 
> Biggest problem I'm having right now is that I find *my edge transition is delayed when going from heelside to toeside*. Kind of a reluctance to commit. I can overcome it by concentrating on it, and eventually I'll be confident enough that it'll be automatic.



Thats the same problem I have that I'm trying to improve on. My turn initiation feels slow and sloppy when Im riding switch. I'm sure my directional board doesn't help things much but i think i really just need to force myself to ride switch more often. let me know if you find any secrets to getting this down quickly

I wish i learned switch when i was first starting out, i hate going back to riding like a beginner...its like going from a fancy mountain bike back to using training wheels


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## walove (May 1, 2009)

you dont have switch down, until you start landing switch straight airs


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## IdahoFreshies (Jul 9, 2011)

rasmasyean said:


> *Well, my story is I rode regular and was able to do double black diamonds my second time snowboarding. * Not really fast, but maybe fall only 20% of the way? I took me so much more switch riding I lost count before I can do double blacks. I think like snowolf says, you pretty much are imprinted with your usual riding. Then when you do switch, it feels really arward and scary. Not only muscle memory, but just looking in that direction and having a blind spot on the opposite side is really weird and you just have to force yourself to do it.
> 
> Now, to date, I prolly logged more switch than regular because I use it to "save energy" for doing hard stuff regular when the opportunity arises. But STILL if I had to guess, my switch is 80% as good as regular! :laugh:
> 
> But I would agree somewhat on the front foot weighting. That's one way to keep your stance switch and not reverting when you don't want to. It's a matter of conciously doing it to break that habit before you body will get used to switch.


god i just love claims like that.


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## spinn3rs (Dec 31, 2011)

walove said:


> you dont have switch down, until you start landing switch straight airs


So true... :thumbsup:


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## JeffreyCH (Nov 21, 2009)

Sudden_Death said:


> So, any advice on drills or tips to keep your weight forward? I was doing alright yesterday then picked up too much speed and wound up going full on scorpion when trying to revert back to normal.


I don't know much this will help. I've been learning switch the past 2-3 seasons. Once I get into what feels like a proper position, I grab the cargo pocket on my pants. I guess I feel this help me stay in that position and keep things lined up while concentrating on edge transition. Maybe it's just a mental thing because I learned to ride that way, but I'm self taught so I have no idea if this is a good practice for others. Oh and I'm at the point where I can ride most blues some blacks comfortably at speed, but still revert back to normal when I get into crowded areas. Again could be a mental block, it just doesn't feel like I have quite the fine edge control at lower speeds, and I'm not as quick edge to edge.


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## RockSteady (Jan 14, 2013)

The best advice I have for you, is honestly stop sounding like a puss and go for it. It's just like learning it all over, you just gotta man up and do it. your gonna suck at first so it'll take some patience. 

Best advice as to making the learning process easier is start by moving into switch from regular all the time and back until it starts to get old and comfy then just go for a switch turn. Then when you get into switch try to stay there for a while don't always resort to regular at the first sign of difficulty.


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## dreampow (Sep 26, 2011)

Learning switch is all about practice. As people said dial back the terrain and just do it. It will come with practice.

I was riding switch my 3rd and 4th days on a board (not well of course) and I have always made a point of riding lots of switch to try and balance the use of my body and my brain. 

I would recommend to any beginner to start working on switch as soon as they are comfortable riding greens.

I don't like the idea of building up too much muscle/nervous system imbalance.

These days its rare I spend an entire run facing one way and love to ride switch in powder and on tree runs. 

I have a swallow tail board that floats really well, but I just don't like the idea of being stuck going one way all day.


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## Donutz (May 12, 2010)

IdahoFreshies said:


> god i just love claims like that.


The statement is true even if the person is doing falling leaf the whole way. And I've seen plenty of idiots going on runs that are way above their abilities.


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## SnowRock (Feb 28, 2011)

ARSENALFAN said:


> I was doing pretty good and decided to pick up the tempo on a blue run. Then I caught a nasty edge and wrenched my wrist. At that point I pretty much decided that switch riding will be used when coming out of 180s and that is it. I get too cocky and confident riding switch on groomers and then always pay a price with a nasty fall. I don't find it difficult at all to ride switch. It is difficult to avoid injury....haha


This is totally me. I need to spend a day riding switch and I think I could improve fairly quickly, but as someone that only gets 15-20 days I feel like its a wasted day. The next weekday I get at one of my local hills I may give it a shot.. for at least half the day.


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## aiidoneus (Apr 7, 2011)

A drill we did the other day for doing intermediate carves for switch:

1) Head to a green hill
2) Riding switch
3) Make a complete turn on one of your edges, think smile
4) Try and get as much angulation and inclination as possible
5) Go very slow

The goal is that you will fall at least once. If you don't you are not getting enough angulation or you are going to fast. It forces you push the limit of your balance on the edge. Apparently this is on the CASI level 2 test, hence I am practicing it.


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## blockay (Jan 4, 2013)

walove said:


> you dont have switch down, until you start landing switch straight airs


 then when i go to telluride im gonna try and accomplish that


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## IdahoFreshies (Jul 9, 2011)

Donutz said:


> The statement is true even if the person is doing falling leaf the whole way. And I've seen plenty of idiots going on runs that are way above their abilities.


Well true, but when I hear people say "i can do this" i usually like to think they can actually do it with a shred of competence, and not side slipping the whole thing.


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## rasmasyean (Jan 26, 2008)

IdahoFreshies said:


> Well true, but when I hear people say "i can do this" i usually like to think they can actually do it with a shred of competence, and not side slipping the whole thing.


I didn't do "falling leaf" on the Double Blacks and called that riding. I did linked turns. I'm not saying I bombed it, as you can see in the original that I said I fell like 20% of the way. I actually read 6 books on technique before doing it so that helped. I'm trying to describe my regular/switch experience and if you have a problem with "the claim", that's your problem that it took you much longer. Everyone is different. I actually learned with a friend who made it to single diamonds before he got tired and quit and I went by myself. So it's not impossible to concieve. Perhaps it also had something to do with the fact that where friends because we both won this thing called like The Presidential Physical Fitness Award when we were kids to distinguish athletic ability? I dunno. But there a lot of ppl who prolly will be doing 720's in one season...and those might wind up in the Olympics!

Anyway's my point was the comparison between riding normal and switch and how hard it is. He can take it for what an internet post is worth.


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## david_z (Dec 14, 2009)

there is a reason why everyone on this board doesn't believe claims that you were competently riding doubles on your very first day (pretty sure you had this same argument with someone else about a year or two ago). 

I don't know what a double looks like where you're from but at most places a double is ungroomed, about 12 feet wide, and/or littered with moguls and/or an in-bounds gladed area. IOW, they are trails which require advanced intermediate to expert competency, which no beginner has. Ever.

FYI "falling 20% of the time" pretty much constitutes total failure. I'm picturing a trail that spans maybe 1000 vertical feet with 15 or 20 falls between top and bottom. That ain't "riding a double black" that's "surviving" a double black.


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## Donutz (May 12, 2010)

IdahoFreshies said:


> Well true, but when I hear people say "i can do this" i usually like to think they can actually do it with a shred of competence, and not side slipping the whole thing.


A completely reasonable assumption. C'mere, lemme slap you. :laugh:


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## Donutz (May 12, 2010)

rasmasyean said:


> Perhaps it also had something to do with the fact that where friends because we both won this thing called like The Presidential Physical Fitness Award when we were kids to distinguish athletic ability? I dunno. But there a lot of ppl who prolly will be doing 720's in one season...and those might wind up in the Olympics!


I suppose it is physically possible to get really good really fast. Given the bell curve there will be some people who are naturally good at sports and pick everything up quickly. I think the main reason that members have trouble with this claim is that we see it so often. And generally when we start digging for details the claim turns out to be, um, stretched a bit. The real problem is that evaluating yourself is very difficult. I'm new enough to snowboarding that I still clearly remember my first days on the slopes. I really thought I was doing great and I wondered what all the fuss was about. Now looking back, I was maybe progressing faster than average but I was still going through the normal learning curve. I also did a black diamond run in my first week, but again, looking back I didn't do it right.


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## rasmasyean (Jan 26, 2008)

david_z said:


> there is a reason why everyone on this board doesn't believe claims that you were competently riding doubles on your very first day (pretty sure you had this same argument with someone else about a year or two ago).
> 
> I don't know what a double looks like where you're from but at most places a double is ungroomed, about 12 feet wide, and/or littered with moguls and/or an in-bounds gladed area. IOW, they are trails which require advanced intermediate to expert competency, which no beginner has. Ever.
> 
> FYI "falling 20% of the time" pretty much constitutes total failure. I'm picturing a trail that spans maybe 1000 vertical feet with 15 or 20 falls between top and bottom. That ain't "riding a double black" that's "surviving" a double black.


I don't recall having this argument. That was someone else. And I said second.

But, well yeah, that's why I said falling 20% of the trail. Because when you fall, you slide until you can't anymore! And this was in Sugarbush Vermont. I practiced the techniques on trails Organgrider and Ripcord. And iirc Ripcord is where practically every other person "fell" with their skiis falling off and themselves sliding down really far away. I actually picked one up and delivered it to someone too where I "fell leaf" to get to him with a skii/pole in my hand. I'm sure you can critique with "perfect turn clinic theories", but whatever constitutes "failure", I'm sure if I was conditioned and didn't get tired, I might have made it 100% "linking turns".


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## rasmasyean (Jan 26, 2008)

Donutz said:


> I suppose it is physically possible to get really good really fast. Given the bell curve there will be some people who are naturally good at sports and pick everything up quickly. I think the main reason that members have trouble with this claim is that we see it so often. And generally when we start digging for details the claim turns out to be, um, stretched a bit. The real problem is that evaluating yourself is very difficult. I'm new enough to snowboarding that I still clearly remember my first days on the slopes. I really thought I was doing great and I wondered what all the fuss was about. Now looking back, I was maybe progressing faster than average but I was still going through the normal learning curve. I also did a black diamond run in my first week, but again, looking back I didn't do it right.


Well for what it's worth, I did progress a lot faster than most of my friends even though some of them do summer sports and work out regularly while I didn't. Most of my friends can't actually do the double diamonds and when I "took them", it took really long for them to "survive" and get down, and that was pretty much the end of thier day after that beating. 

And when I got on my friend's unicycle on the first time, he did say that my balance was "incredible". But my ninja skillz aren't exactly the point here. :laugh: I'm just using that example to indicate that learning to ride switch can be pretty hard...even much harder than your normal direction. But of course, everyone falls on the "bell curve" somewhere for any activity.


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## oldmate (Oct 24, 2011)

Can you tell me a little bit more about how impressive you are?


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## blockay (Jan 4, 2013)

Snowolf said:


> Just wanted to point out to people who may be frustrated with their switch riding and may be having trouble riding as well switch as primary. Keep in mind that everyone is different and that some people are wired more directionally than others. While some people find switch as comfortable as primary, most do not. It is totally normal for most people to always ride primary with a higher level of proficiency than switch. Even AASI recognizes this in the exam process. Your switch riding tasks are not graded to same standards as your primary riding tasks.
> 
> So while everyone should be able to ride competently switch, don't feel frustrated because you never feel as comfortable or have more difficulty riding very challenging terrain. I am working on riding black bumps switch and I find this agonizingly difficult. The only thing I have found more difficult is riding the Super Pipe switch.


is a directional twin board close to true? or does it effect my switch riding a lot


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## poutanen (Dec 22, 2011)

blockay said:


> is a directional twin board close to true? or does it effect my switch riding a lot


There are varying degrees of directional flex. Some boards have just slightly more pop in the tail, others are quite directional.

I've debated about setting up a second board with a regular stance so I can try to learn switch without the disadvantage of the directional board...

That said, whether it's a true twin or a highly directional board, the mechanics of riding are generally the same. If you're having a lot of trouble riding switch a true twin wouldn't be a bad idea, but it's not going to make it massively easier. Noticeably but not massively. :dizzy:


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## Wangta (Feb 1, 2011)

I'd echo many of the comments by others. 

Binding angles - def easier if your rear foot is pointed outward a little. My angles +18, -9. 

Start off on a nice, smooth groomed run - either a green or blue. You don't want it to flat - you need some grade. 

DO IT ALL DAY. I've just learned switch last month - I rode goofy literally ALL DAY for 5 straight days. If you stick to it, by the end of your first day, you'll get the hang of it (assuming you aren't bad at snowboarding regular). 

It just takes time and practice. Practice practice practice.


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## t21 (Dec 29, 2010)

rode switch half a day today on green run from top to bottom. wanted to revert to regular but kept it going except when kids where in the bottleneck. i can link turns, sorta carve on both sides but when i try to straight line my back leg tends to push out so i'll slow down and control it. I started switch riding last year but stop and concentrated on bumps till the season ended. so know since our mountain is not fully open, and there is not much bump terrain to ride, i'm going back to practicing switch. tell you what, able to ride switch sure help me out on some would have been bad crashes:thumbsup:.


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## blockay (Jan 4, 2013)

Snowolf said:


> A directional twin will have negligible effect on switch riding. Unless I am mistaken, a directional twin has a symmetrical sidecut and flex pattern. The only real difference is that a directional twin has a setback on the stance. You don't start dealing with progressive sidecuts and asymmetrical flex patterns until you are dealing with directional boards. Even boards such as these like the NS Cobra and Summit, are actually quite adept at switch riding once the rider dials in the handling characteristics.


well thats good to know i thought differently


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## rasmasyean (Jan 26, 2008)

I think as you go faster however, directional is more noticable. You can feel the performance characteristics come into play. I think one of the effects of a longer nose is that it will dampen the oncoming bumps ahead before it reaches your foot. When you are riding tail first, you get less dampining effect which can effect your riding.


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## danzo (Nov 19, 2012)

Glad to see I'm not the only one.

I put in about 3 hours today pushing myself to ride switch (duck stance.) Felt like I started to get the hang of it and cockyness got over me; started buttering down the hill thinking I was cool until I caught a serious heal edge while going flat. Smashed my head so hard, it damaged the inside of my helmet. Couldn't go switch any more for the rest of the night, lol. 

It definitely felt like I was a complete noob again wiping out on green runs normal when I can slay double blacks goofy. With patience though, I think it can be done by anyone. You gotta go back to the basics, stand on flat ground strapped in and practice facing the other way and applying pressure to your bindings. 

I believe a lot it has to do with underdeveloped muscles; I can feel the soreness coming from doing that switch session today. 

On a positive note, it added a very nice confidence element when I was able to ride both ways, Def some bonus style points when you can pop 180s during your run and keep the stance.


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## ig88 (Jan 3, 2012)

I bet you are already real good buttering regular. Good man.


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## globoat (Jan 28, 2013)

Tried riding switch for the first time the other day. I can't seam to lean forward going switch. I feel like I'm a million miles to the back of my board. I tried a couple of turns but I can't control them and just keep turning until I do a 360 and wipe out. I've lowered my expectations and am practicing riding switch on the flat ends of the runs. Any suggestions?


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## Donutz (May 12, 2010)

globoat said:


> Tried riding switch for the first time the other day. I can't seam to lean forward going switch. I feel like I'm a million miles to the back of my board. I tried a couple of turns but I can't control them and just keep turning until I do a 360 and wipe out. I've lowered my expectations and am practicing riding switch on the flat ends of the runs. Any suggestions?


That sounds pretty normal. Your muscles are trying to do the moves for regular riding and getting exactly the wrong result. Two biggest issues I had were not leaning forward and not turning my head to face forward (I was looking eyes-right instead).

Start in absolutely the simplest part of your favorite run, practice there. Gradually expand the area in which you are riding switch.


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## atr3yu (Feb 15, 2012)

globoat said:


> Tried riding switch for the first time the other day. I can't seam to lean forward going switch. I feel like I'm a million miles to the back of my board. I tried a couple of turns but I can't control them and just keep turning until I do a 360 and wipe out. I've lowered my expectations and am practicing riding switch on the flat ends of the runs. Any suggestions?


My exact issue as well. Though I really want to learn. Saturday the bunny hill and I have a date.


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## RockSteady (Jan 14, 2013)

atr3yu said:


> My exact issue as well. Though I really want to learn. Saturday the bunny hill and I have a date.


You guys have to remember, the reason you ride the direction you do is cause its way more natural making way more easier. People can have this belief that all you have to do is work on switch and you'll learn it like regular...not so true, you didn't start going switch for a reason cause it would have taken way longer to learn snowboarding, it takes more getting use to but when you become comfortable then you start progressing switch like you did regular...your body is just not going to get use to using its unnatural leg forward until it gets it gets some time and practice that way to...just takes time and practice like everything


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## Casual (Feb 9, 2011)

Riding switch is really a head game, you need to overcome the muscle memory and the "I can't do it" shit your head is telling you. You already know how to ride so you can be your own teacher but you need to overcome the mental block and muscle memory. The best advise I read in this thread was strap in and ride switch the whole day. I actually did this for a whole season at my local crap hill a long time ago, payoff was huge. Even still my brain tells me to turn around from time to time and I have to fight it.


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## t21 (Dec 29, 2010)

Riding switch does take time.I can now link turns,carve on moderate speed,but once i get to cat tracks where there are some people on them. i find myself ruddering my back foot to turn and skid to slow down and would fight myself NOT to turn back to regular. I also hold my hands in front of me to stay square with my board which is funny cuz i do not do this when i ride regular:dunno: I'm still working on going faster on switch.


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## ig88 (Jan 3, 2012)

Donutz said:


> Because of the relatively ...... anything short of tough blacks in switch.
> 
> *Biggest problem I'm having right now is that I find my edge transition is delayed when going from heelside to toeside.* Kind of a reluctance to commit. I can overcome it by concentrating on it, and eventually I'll be confident enough that it'll be automatic.





brucew. said:


> *Thats the same problem I have that I'm trying to improve on. *My turn initiation feels slow and sloppy when Im riding switch. I'm sure my directional board doesn't help things much but i think i really just need to force myself ......


I too the other day was having the same problem while learning switch. I am regular. As I rode switch trying to transition from heel to toe, I seemed to take too long both temporally and distance-wise to get back to neutral (fall line) before engaging the toe edge.

Hence during my switch my heel edge once engaged, was difficult to halt. That could spell disasters if you know what I mean. Sometimes as I could not transition back to my toe-edge and as I was nearing the side of the slope, I simply forced a pivot turn on my never-ending heel edge turn into a brake, just to start all over again.

On the other hand during switch, my transition from toe edge to heel edge was more than comfortable and effortless to my surprise. 

Has anyone come up with a good solution to this particular problem?


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## Donutz (May 12, 2010)

ig88 said:


> Has anyone come up with a good solution to this particular problem?


Practice. Concentrate on being very aware of what you're doing, i.e. are you back-seating, and practice. It DOES come eventually. I can now ride switch down green runs and some parts of blue runs quite comfortably. Just took practice.


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## globoat (Jan 28, 2013)

I may just hit the baby hill on the weekend. I mostly want to learn to do tricks so riding switch is a must. Right now my helmet is my best friend.


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## Tarzanman (Dec 20, 2008)

danzo said:


> I believe a lot it has to do with underdeveloped muscles; I can feel the soreness coming from doing that switch session today.


Yep, this 1000%
The difference is even more pronounced for those of us who grew up riding skateboards/surfing/whatever in one direction.

I am considerably more flexible in the torso and neck for my normal stance. when I ride switch it is considerably more difficult (if not impossible sometimes) for me to twist my body all the way around to the front to face forward properly.


I once spent an entire day on groomers riding switch. Nothing fancy, just trying to get accustomed to that postition. My foot completely (and very painfully) cramped up inside my boot on my last run, which had never happened before (and never happened since).


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## Casual (Feb 9, 2011)

There really is no other secret aside from riding switch as much as possible. I'm at the point where I can ride about as fast switch as regular on blues, almost as fast on blacks but I'm a little nervous in trees, pretty good in moguls... I ride switch ALL the time. On any given run I'll pop 180's off anything I see and roll switch to the next one then half cab back to regs. This is great practice for fs/bs 180s reg and switch as well and it made my riding 100 times more fun. Also buttering into switch is fun too. Point is ride switch as much as possible and soon enough you will be really good at it.... there is no "secret".


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## ig88 (Jan 3, 2012)

Donutz said:


> Practice. Concentrate on being very aware of what you're doing, i.e. are you back-seating, and practice. It DOES come eventually. I can now ride switch down green runs and some parts of blue runs quite comfortably. Just took practice.





Casual said:


> There really is no other secret aside from riding switch as much as possible. ...... buttering into switch is fun too. Point is ride switch as much as possible and soon enough you will be really good at it.... there is no "secret".


Thanks. Got it. Just wondering if you guys may have short cuts to achieving that while I take the arduous path. Great, at least I know I am on the right path. And I like practicing too. Even my muscles are telling me they are getting more comfortable doing switch as I take on every new day of ride and practice. Nothing's more reassuring than knowing you guys have gone through what I am going through.


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## poutanen (Dec 22, 2011)

ig88 said:


> Thanks. Got it. Just wondering if you guys may have short cuts to achieving that while I take the arduous path.


Like taking off a bandaid the best way to do it is like Casual said... Just dive in! If you screw around with it it'll take forever. If you dedicate even every second run to riding switch it should come fairly quick. Of course for 95% of people out there it'll never feel natural, but it will be ridable after a day or two of sticking to it...


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## Lifted (Feb 6, 2013)

I started flatspinning 360's before I started riding switch and it helped A LOT. I'd start doing them super slow and drawn out and work on being able to complete the 3 in the smallest distance I could down the hill. Eventually I'd be spinning like a top for 50% of a green run and looking like a fool.

I'm regular stance and found it easier to do by starting with a toeside turn since when you do the last 180 switch you'd be on your heels.

I got comfortable being able to go back to my regualr stance when facing the wrong direction and it makes you get down the feeling of being able to turn the board and stop if you need to if you draw out the motions of completing the 360.

Shorty after I started actually linking turns switch and can flat spin a 360 frontside or backside on command. Also opens the door for starting butters and airing spins too. Made me way more comfortable when I was starting


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## aiidoneus (Apr 7, 2011)

Casual said:


> There really is no other secret aside from riding switch as much as possible. I'm at the point where I can ride about as fast switch as regular on blues, almost as fast on blacks but I'm a little nervous in trees, pretty good in moguls... I ride switch ALL the time. On any given run I'll pop 180's off anything I see and roll switch to the next one then half cab back to regs. This is great practice for fs/bs 180s reg and switch as well and it made my riding 100 times more fun. Also buttering into switch is fun too. Point is ride switch as much as possible and soon enough you will be really good at it.... there is no "secret".


Agree completely. When I tried to force just riding switch I resisted a bit. Then I did the same as you, my switch is way better and I have a ton of fun with it.

The nice thing with 180s and nose rolls to switch is you get really good at either landing in on edge or throwing the edge in. Makes carving switch easier I think.

For me, my edge transition are what I need more work with, mostly just heel to toe. I think I incline a bit, instead of really driving the knees. Once on edge I can carve fine.


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## Slush Puppie (Aug 15, 2011)

My advice is don't put off learning it, as soon as you can. Start now! My instructor had me try a switch turn pretty much as soon as I'd managed a regular one and I thank him for that because i intuitively did it and have never feared it since that day.

I've always made a point of immediately trying the switch version of whatever I've learnt regular. Blue run top to bottom on the first day of my second week, cross under carves, powder, spins etc. I've even caught myself having to look at the board on occasion to check which way I'm riding 

Technique wise, I find simply running through a quick mental checklist is all I need: weight centred, feel the pressure on each foot (shuffle backwards and forwards a couple of times if need be), are my shoulders inline with the board, where are my hands. (That process has largely shifted to my subconscious now though). Everything else just takes care of itself then. It might take a couple of turns to really get in the flow but that's it.

BUT, despite a good start, the more I've ridden (and it's not been anywhere to 50/50) the less confident I feel riding switch relatively speaking. I'll ride switch if the board happens to be pointing that way but I'll tent to revert before to long unless I force myself, particularly if it's steep or challenging.

SO to underline what many others have already said: force yourself to do it, set goals big or small but set them! And then keep doing it. Theres just no substitute for snowmiles whichever direction you're pointed in. And if you're finding it difficult that goes double! 

Just don't give up because you tried it a couple of times and it didn't work out.

As a baby you couldn't walk. It took you a LOT more than a couple of tries to crack that... Remember what kind of perseverance you are capable of


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## skunkworks_ (Jan 2, 2013)

Just here to confirm that flatland 360s will help your switch riding significantly.


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## Soggysnow (Sep 11, 2012)

Casual said:


> There really is no other secret aside from riding switch as much as possible. I'm at the point where I can ride about as fast switch as regular on blues, almost as fast on blacks but I'm a little nervous in trees, pretty good in moguls... I ride switch ALL the time. On any given run I'll pop 180's off anything I see and roll switch to the next one then half cab back to regs. This is great practice for fs/bs 180s reg and switch as well and it made my riding 100 times more fun. Also buttering into switch is fun too. Point is ride switch as much as possible and soon enough you will be really good at it.... there is no "secret".



wow. I am impressed. I have a friend who has done 11 seasons here and he is faster on his switch side than I am on my regular. Granted I am not a speed lapper but wow. You are probably the same.


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## Slush Puppie (Aug 15, 2011)

Casual said:


> On any given run I'll pop 180's off anything I see and roll switch to the next one then half cab back to regs.


This :thumbsup: 

Give yourself a reason to be riding switch a lot. 180s are actually pretty trivial (fs anyway) once you get the hang of them. You can hop them on the piste or off a side hit. Only allow yourself to revert using a butter or spin. I quite enjoy popping a nose roll nollie over a little lip, or even just on the flat to get back to regular.


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## globoat (Jan 28, 2013)

Tried switch the other day and it looks like a much longer process than I thought. First, my leg that I thought was in shape is not. My calf and high ankle got tired in a hurry. I managed to try a bit of falling leaf for a bit and some turns to full stops with 4 in a row at the most. Keeping my hands on my knees helped but I kept going more and more to one side of the hill until I was almost in the trees. My body doesn't want to go switch. No matter what, I end up looking over the wrong shoulder even if my body is going the other direction. At one point I was actually looking up the hill. At least I'm seeing a bit of progress, even if it is at the same pace as 4 year old beginners.


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## kswissreject (Feb 26, 2009)

Have been trying to learn switch on my NS Heritage this year - it's been a slow progress, can do heelside, but having issues toeside. Set up my Bataleon Jam yesterday switch, and rode all day, and immediately had a better time. Much easier to go heel to toe, and I got it down pretty pat! Only issue was sketchy loading/unloading, but there are worse things...

Really, seemed much easier with the Bataleon.


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## Casual (Feb 9, 2011)

Soggysnow said:


> wow. I am impressed. I have a friend who has done 11 seasons here and he is faster on his switch side than I am on my regular. Granted I am not a speed lapper but wow. You are probably the same.


Ha don't be, I'm no pro I just do it a lot. Lately I've been working on switch ollies off rollers which feel awkward, not ollyiing so much as landing for some reason and I was hittng boxes switch yesterday which is also awkward. So I guess even when you ride switch well theres always a bit of awkwardness to it... I can't understand how guys like Torstein can to a switch triple cork.


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## stillz (Jan 5, 2010)

For me, problems riding switch are most apparent on challenging terrain (steeps, bumps). Every time, I can fix it by bending my front knee more (both, but especially the FRONT knee), and sufficiently weighting the front foot for turn initiation. Really, those are both the same thing. Sometimes it's frustrating to know exactly how to correct a problem and still have trouble making it work, but the more I bend my knees/ankles, the better I get.


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## Gdog42 (Nov 11, 2012)

Snowolf is exactly right- you already know how to ride but you just need to get the feel for it. 
I started out by learning basic buttering (fun!) so I could just slide back into goofy if things got too sketchy. 
You pretty much learn the same way as you did for your normal stance- just take large, wide carves back and forth until you start to get the feel for it. 

And yes, it really is easy to catch an edge on flat terrain! Happened to me last month when learning switch and I think I almost broke my tailbone; the pain was unbearable for a few minutes and then I had a hard time walking upstairs and couldn't do squats or situps for the rest of the week. :laugh:

And that's one of the reasons I got a pair of slam shorts. They've helped for learning switch and my recent park progression.


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## pencap75 (Dec 10, 2008)

Getting better every season with switch.
My main problem is my ollie power is so weak when I switch compared to regular.
My switch back leg pressing power is horrendous.
I can only pop switch, but any kind of press, butter or ollie when switch is totally lame.


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## Soggysnow (Sep 11, 2012)

This might sound like a dumb question. But if you kick a ball, do you kick with your switch back leg?
I dont understand where they get the 'if you are goofy you are more likely to be left handed'
I ride right forward, kick with my right and write with my right. Poor left side. Neglected.


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## liner (Jan 8, 2013)

comfort and confidence are the name of the game. If you having trouble riding switch, BUT you can do 180's, throw 180's everywhere. land switch ride it out a turn, or revert both fronside and backside. 

Even if your not confident riding switch, if you get really good at landing switch, getting out of switch every way possible, and 180 everywhere(getting comfortable getting in and out of), you are naturally building up you switch skills. 

also something you can try is flat 180's, 360's, and 540's. The idea here is as you flat spin, you exit the rotation either your regular stance or switch. as you spin 3's and up, it starts to feel very much the same exiting both directions. You have just smashed through the confidence barrier.

Bookin it down a chutes and steeps switch simply takes miles, just as it did as you progressed from the bunny slope to the big hill. but the more comfortable you can get being ambidextrous on a board the better.


As a ender, I always tell my begginers that wanna get into more stuff, if you can 180, youll naturally learn to ride switch, and vice versa, if you can ride switch, spins are ride there. they go hand in hand.


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## Vinh (Feb 19, 2013)

Soggysnow said:


> This might sound like a dumb question. But if you kick a ball, do you kick with your switch back leg?
> I dont understand where they get the 'if you are goofy you are more likely to be left handed'
> I ride right forward, kick with my right and write with my right. Poor left side. Neglected.



I think it's just different preferences for each person. I'm very weird in this though, because I'm left handed. I write and kick a ball with my left side, but use a scissor/throw a ball with my right. And I ride goofy.


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## Casual (Feb 9, 2011)

Hell I know people that skate goofy and snowboard regs... figure that one out.


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## ItchEtrigR (Jan 1, 2012)

Casual said:


> Hell I know people that skate goofy and snowboard regs... figure that one out.


Now that's just showing off...


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## Rod (Feb 2, 2013)

*speaking of skating*



Casual said:


> Hell I know people that skate goofy and snowboard regs... figure that one out.


I really worked last summer on pushing switch on my skateboard. This year my switch snowboarding just clicked and can ride a full day in the with the board setup (green/blue mind you the blacks burn out my back leg in a few runs).

I still can't skate transition switch worth beans but the snowboarding really clicked. :dunno:

Maybe next summer the skating will follow the snowboarding.


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## Casual (Feb 9, 2011)

^ cool. But I was refering to people who skate goofy and cannot skate reg, snowboard reg and cannot snowboard goofy. I've known two of these odd bastards.


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## vknyvz (Jan 23, 2013)

wow 10 pages, I read every thing on this post 
I am starting my switch education this weekend, I am pretty `OK` on goofy, my regular stance, blues double diamons no matter, now I am gonna try learning my other leg. I have a 163 directional board, it could be harder I guess but oh well.

I see lot of falling this weekend on the bunny/green slopes...


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## extra0 (Jan 16, 2010)

for a long time, I tried switch on standard camber boards and just couldn't do it. It was only when I started riding TBT that I could ride switch and well (linking turns smoothly and confidently). I'm guessing any of the new tech boards (RC, hybrid, etc) with lifted contact points would be similar....if you can't do it on those, maybe your brain just isn't geared for switch:dunno:


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## poutanen (Dec 22, 2011)

extra0 said:


> for a long time, I tried switch on standard camber boards and just couldn't do it. It was only when I started riding TBT that I could ride switch and well (linking turns smoothly and confidently). I'm guessing any of the new tech boards (RC, hybrid, etc) with lifted contact points would be similar....if you can't do it on those, maybe your brain just isn't geared for switch:dunno:


I just bought a regular old Burton Custom, and set it up for twin stance, and switch is SO much easier than on any directional board I've been on. I would either try centring stance, or try switching bindings 180 degrees (to make a direction board favour switch) before I'd buy a non-camber board.

But I'm a camber lover so I guess that's where that comes from!


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## IS3_FTW (Jan 21, 2013)

The info in this thread has been awesome to say the least. I been snowboarding for 7yrs on and off, and never had the urge to learn switch. I just bought a 2012 Rome Mod Rocker 159 which is a twin board. After a couple runs of riding duck again, I wasn't feeling that confident of riding switch. It was all in the mind and looking down hill in a different way. Once i was able to ride switch on my heel edge, I started to carve onto my toe edge. After a couple spills and a few laughs to myself about what I did wrong. I learned it quickly and now able to switch back and forth with ease. Next step is to do backside/frontside 180s.

Thanks everyone that helped in this thread


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## ig88 (Jan 3, 2012)

poutanen said:


> I just bought a regular old Burton Custom, and *set it up for twin stance*, and switch is SO much easier than on any directional board I've been on. I would either try centring stance, or try switching bindings 180 degrees (to make a direction board favour switch) before I'd buy a non-camber board.
> 
> But I'm a camber lover so I guess that's where that comes from!


Do you do it by tweaking the stance a tad forward?


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## StickieTime (Jan 7, 2013)

I'm learning how to ride switch as well. i can do heel side and toe side pretty easily if I'm doing a big S shape down the hill slowly. But if i have any speed, linking turns together scares the crap out of me. Feels like I'm going to catch the edge when i'm going from heel to toe.

Am i doing something wrong or is it something i'll just have to get use to?


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## globoat (Jan 28, 2013)

I just did a lesson the other day. One good tip that helped me was controlling the board by bending it with my feet to make turns. I never had it explained that way to me before. Made a big difference, although I still can't link
More than a few turns.


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## Donutz (May 12, 2010)

StickieTime said:


> I'm learning how to ride switch as well. i can do heel side and toe side pretty easily if I'm doing a big S shape down the hill slowly. But if i have any speed, linking turns together scares the crap out of me. Feels like I'm going to catch the edge when i'm going from heel to toe.
> 
> Am i doing something wrong or is it something i'll just have to get use to?


The transition from one edge to the other is the dangerous point in the turn. Too soon or too late and you catch an edge. Your body remembers that from learning the first time. Good news is you'll learn it a lot faster the second time.


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## IS3_FTW (Jan 21, 2013)

StickieTime said:


> I'm learning how to ride switch as well. i can do heel side and toe side pretty easily if I'm doing a big S shape down the hill slowly. But if i have any speed, linking turns together scares the crap out of me. Feels like I'm going to catch the edge when i'm going from heel to toe.
> 
> Am i doing something wrong or is it something i'll just have to get use to?


Just keep practicing on beginner slopes and you will get the hang of it. I still get sketchy when going fast on beginner slopes. You learn quickly and thats a bonus :thumbsup: I learned to use my other foot(the one that usually is my front foot) to kick the board around. Just remember the technique of leaning into your turns and keeping your body centered over the board 
It took me about 20 runs to feel comfortable. But I dont dare try going fast or on black diamond hills yet


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## poutanen (Dec 22, 2011)

ig88 said:


> Do you do it by tweaking the stance a tad forward?


Yeah, I ride about 1/2" wider than reference stance, and the stance just happens to be about 1/4" back from centre. So I put the forward binding 1/2" further forward than reference and I'm off to the races!

It's certainly harder to ride in powder though. Great for switch, not great for every other aspect of riding...


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## ItchEtrigR (Jan 1, 2012)

ig88 said:


> Do you do it by tweaking the stance a tad forward?


As long as your centered over your sidecut, you'll be good. Don't push your stance on boards with setback too forward otherwise you'll be ahead of the waist on switch and in front of the tails flex point while regular. IMO I wouldn't tinker with it too much or at all, as switch is just a matter of practise, centering a stance on a directional board isn't going to make you learn any easier. It's just going to make your tip & tail the same length, off center your stance with the sidecut and flex pattern of the board...


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## ig88 (Jan 3, 2012)

poutanen said:


> Yeah, I ride about 1/2" wider than reference stance, and the stance just happens to be about 1/4" back from centre. So I put the forward binding 1/2" further forward than reference and I'm off to the races!
> 
> It's certainly harder to ride in powder though. Great for switch, not great for every other aspect of riding...


Got it. Thanks.



ItchEtrigR said:


> As long as your centered over your sidecut, you'll be good. Don't push your stance on boards with setback too forward otherwise you'll be ahead of the waist on switch and in front of the tails flex point while regular. IMO I wouldn't tinker with it too much or at all, as switch is just a matter of practise, centering a stance on a directional board isn't going to make you learn any easier. It's just going to make your tip & tail the same length, off center your stance with the sidecut and flex pattern of the board...


Got it. Thanks.


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## snowklinger (Aug 30, 2011)

Donutz said:


> The transition from one edge to the other is the dangerous point in the turn. Too soon or too late and you catch an edge. Your body remembers that from learning the first time. *Good news is you'll learn it a lot faster the second time*.


Fuck I wish.


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## rasmasyean (Jan 26, 2008)

ItchEtrigR said:


> As long as your centered over your sidecut, you'll be good. Don't push your stance on boards with setback too forward otherwise you'll be ahead of the waist on switch and in front of the tails flex point while regular. IMO I wouldn't tinker with it too much or at all, as switch is just a matter of practise, centering a stance on a directional board isn't going to make you learn any easier. It's just going to make your tip & tail the same length, off center your stance with the sidecut and flex pattern of the board...


I would say this depends on your progression.

While you're learning, the sidecut shape does not matter as much because you're not going to be carving a whole lot of your riding...at least not to the point where the "sidecut profile" really matters. If your board is directional, it likely has a significantly longer nose than tail. Therefore, when you are performing SKIDDED turns, riding switch will be harder because there would be more rear edge to drag on the snow...making it harder to turn. It's the basic principle of leverage, where you would put your hands more toward the end of a tire iron to producing more force on the nut. So it would take more work to skid the board. You can definately feel it, especially when you're much better, which is why they make twin boards.


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## ItchEtrigR (Jan 1, 2012)

rasmasyean said:


> I would say this depends on your progression.
> 
> While you're learning, the sidecut shape does not matter as much because you're not going to be carving a whole lot of your riding...at least not to the point where the "sidecut profile" really matters. If your board is directional, it likely has a significantly longer nose than tail. Therefore, when you are performing SKIDDED turns, riding switch will be harder because there would be more rear edge to drag on the snow...making it harder to turn. It's the basic principle of leverage, where you would put your hands more toward the end of a tire iron to producing more force on the nut. So it would take more work to skid the board. You can definately feel it, especially when you're much better, which is why they make twin boards.


I don't know, I'm no instructor, maybe it is easier to center your stance on a directional twin, I just don't understand how that is going to make riding switch easier when a directional setback twin is already designed to ride switch, its just performance orientated for riding regular.

Extreme placement to center the stance is simply going to move your axis away from the waist of the board and put you on or in front of the flex point of the tail. 

To me that sounds like it is going to make the ride worse both in switch & regular.

Now I understand your concern about performance, but skidded turns? That technique is not far away once the rider has learned to get on edge. And while it's true you'll get equal performance from the board if it's a true twin, the rider is still going to have to learn to ride the board switch efficiently before they can expect any performance from it.

Maybe one of the instructors can share the knowledge.


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## Gdog42 (Nov 11, 2012)

Donutz said:


> The transition from one edge to the other is the dangerous point in the turn. Too soon or too late and you catch an edge. Your body remembers that from learning the first time. Good news is you'll learn it a lot faster the second time.


This is the exact problem I've been having recently. I caught an edge earlier this season doing this switch and slammed my tailbone *really hard* on ice! 
Holy crap it hurt! I was lying there on my back for a good few minutes, holding my ass, gritting my teeth, repeatedly chanting "shit, shit, shit, shit, I've broken something" in a whispery voice. That's just how friggin painful it was. 
I was convinced I'd broken my tailbone, but I realized soon enough that I hadn't. This actually surprised me. And made me order a pair of slam shorts the next day. Probably the best thing I've bought this season, because it did happen again a few times but this time I only felt the impact and, so this time I could actually walk up stairs the following week! :laugh:
Also saved my tailbone on a few big jumps. I'm not trying to scare anyone else here learning to ride switch- I'm just pointing out that Donutz made a really good point. :thumbsup:

If you're local hill is always icy like the one I've been going to, a pair of slam shorts wouldn't be a bad investment if you're learning to ride switch.

As far as skills go, buttering has really improved my switch riding, and it's *fun!* I learned to butter properly this weekend and now riding switch is a lot easier because if things get too sketchy I can just swivel back into my regular direction. I'd recommend learning that if you haven't already. It also tastes good on toast!


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## vknyvz (Jan 23, 2013)

why do i feel like everybody is staring at me while i was practicing my switch last week?


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## Gdog42 (Nov 11, 2012)

vknyvz said:


> why do i feel like everybody is staring at me while i was practicing my switch last week?


That's normal. It's because you're used to being good when riding regular and don't think about people watching much. 

If you wear and use high-end gear that's brightly colored, chances are that other people *really are* watching you. I have a neon lime green jacket and bindings, which has definitely made me the one of brightest guys on the hill where I've been so far. Don't know if that's a good thing or a bad thing, but it does get attention. 
It really doesn't matter though, unless you're one of those rich skiers who buys all the top-of-the-line equipment and then attempts to go skiing for the first time! Those guys...:huh:

Personally, when I'm riding switch I'm crap and always feel like I'm being watched from the lift, and being dressed like a bright green Sharpie marker doesn't help! :laugh:
If I get too worried about it, I just switch back to good ol' goofy and then anyone watching would have no choice but to realize _oh, he was just learning switch!_


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## vknyvz (Jan 23, 2013)

Gdog42 said:


> That's normal. It's because you're used to being good when riding regular and don't think about people watching much.
> 
> If you wear and use high-end gear that's brightly colored, chances are that other people *really are* watching you. I have a neon lime green jacket and bindings, which has definitely made me the one of brightest guys on the hill where I've been so far. Don't know if that's a good thing or a bad thing, but it does get attention.
> When I'm riding switch I'm crap and always feel like I'm being watched from the lift, and being dressed like a bright green Sharpie marker doesn't help! :laugh:


lol so true, having 560 dollar never summer board, and a hero 3 on my head, people prolly going man "lookie what do have here, I wonder what's he's camming"? lol

idk dude it's just feels like it's 2011 all over again 

I fell several times, worst of all I tend to forget what to do when I tried for the first time last week, it's like I am going down and forget what to do so turning to my regular stance, I was basically fighting it to do the opposite


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## glaucon (Jan 3, 2013)

Just wanted to add that I'm loving getting into switch. 

I've been riding for nearly 20 years and never had any desire to learn switch or spend any time in the parks (I used to do laps when I first started out but I can't afford to injure myself these days so I stopped that). Up until a few weeks ago, I was all about the trees, steeps, and bumps, and thought switch was useless for me and a waste of time on the slopes. I've always had a directional board and didn't even think it was possible.

But then this year I started going with my girlfriend, who is a low to mid intermediate, and I was looking for something to keep me occupied as she falling-leafed her way down the slope (she has since gotten much much better, thankfully). So I tried switch.

The first couple of days were pretty brutal (including one really bad edge catch on hardpack leading to a tailbone slam, pretty much exactly as Gdog described), but by day three I was pretty fluid and wasn't catching any edges. Soon after that I was hitting 180s in the flats both frontside and backside, regular and switch. By the end of day 4, I was switching back and forth at least every 100 feet while carving between each switch. It's such a giddy feeling.

I've found that the directional board doesn't really reduce the ability or fundamentals of riding switch in terms of turning, the main problem is that it's just really slow (this is on a NS Raptor). But I'm not at the point where I need more speed at switch yet.

After riding this long, I really wasn't expecting this whole other level of enjoyment. Flipping 180s and riding out switch feels sooo good! (and for some reason, especially the first heel-to-toe turn after a 180, I have no idea why).


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## globoat (Jan 28, 2013)

vknyvz said:


> why do i feel like everybody is staring at me while i was practicing my switch last week?


Was practicing switch under the chair lift today, caught an edge, and went into a monkey roll in the snow. A group of teens on the lift shouted out "don't worry! You'll get it! Keep trying!"


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## bcasey (Jan 19, 2011)

Hey, switch riding is probably one of the most important riding skills.. It leads into tricks and gets you out of "tight spots" when you really have no option other than to ride switch or bail out.

I read a few posts in this thread with some crazy details on how to ride switch and I also seen people post "its just like riding regular, but backwards". I agree with the guys saying that it is just riding backwards tbh.. it is more or less learning to ride all over again but with your unnatural foot forward. Apply all that you have learned riding with your natural foot forward... to your switch riding.

I posted a video on youtube a year or so ago of me riding with a gopro at Lake Louise on opening weekend. There was only a couple greens and blues open.. so it was a great opportunity to fool around and do some switch riding. Not really a good vid clip to learn from.. but if you do a youtube search for switch riding you will find some instructional videos that might help you.


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## poutanen (Dec 22, 2011)

bcasey said:


> I posted a video on youtube a year or so ago of me riding with a gopro at Lake Louise on opening weekend.


Ah, you're the gondola lap guy!?! I remember watching this vid just after we moved to Alberta. Used it to help show the GF what the runs were going to be like! :thumbsup:

I like to do a fair bit of switch on the cat tracks or if my legs get tired. I'm goofy so the entire track leading down to the Paradise chair I usually ride switch. Gives me a chance to play around with 180s on the little rollers. Fun stuff! :thumbsup:


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## ig88 (Jan 3, 2012)

Gdog42 said:


> This is the exact problem I've been having recently. ......
> 
> ...... as skills go, *buttering has really improved my switch riding*, and it's *fun!* I learned to butter properly this weekend and now riding switch is a lot easier because if things get too sketchy I can just swivel back into my regular direction. I'd recommend learning that if you haven't already. It also tastes good on toast!


How does buttering help your switch? 



vknyvz said:


> why do i feel like everybody is staring at me while i was practicing my switch last week?


Because you are good looking.



bcasey said:


> Hey, switch riding is probably one of the most important riding skills.. It leads into tricks and gets you out of "tight spots" when you really have no option other than to ride switch or bail out.
> 
> ......
> 
> *I posted a video on youtube a year or so ago of me riding with a gopro *at Lake Louise on opening weekend. There was only a couple greens and blues open.. so it was a great opportunity to fool around and do some switch riding. Not really a good vid clip to learn from.. but if you do a youtube search for switch riding you will find some instructional videos that might help you.


You are very good and very fast too. I notice you overtook everyone down the slope.


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## Gdog42 (Nov 11, 2012)

ig88 said:


> How does buttering help your switch?


Because, as I stated on *the exact* post you quoted, it makes it easier to get in and out of my switch stance, which helps if I get out of control.


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## bcasey (Jan 19, 2011)

poutanen said:


> Ah, you're the gondola lap guy!?! I remember watching this vid just after we moved to Alberta. Used it to help show the GF what the runs were going to be like! :thumbsup:
> 
> I like to do a fair bit of switch on the cat tracks or if my legs get tired. I'm goofy so the entire track leading down to the Paradise chair I usually ride switch. Gives me a chance to play around with 180s on the little rollers. Fun stuff! :thumbsup:


Yup that's me haha! 
That was probably the most common run at Lake Louise, really doesn't do the rest of the mountain justice imo as there is such a wide variety of terrain there. Some of my favorite tree lines are at Lake Louise and when it snows.. omg.

Oh man.. I completely agree.. switch riding is a total leg saver.


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## Gdog42 (Nov 11, 2012)

bcasey said:


> Yup that's me haha!
> That was probably the most common run at Lake Louise, really doesn't do the rest of the mountain justice imo as there is such a wide variety of terrain there. Some of my favorite tree lines are at Lake Louise and when it snows.. omg.


That video was awesome. :eusa_clap: I like the way you put the GoPro upside-down on the pole and then put that behind you-that's pretty creative. 

I can't stand all the GoPro videos that just show someone's torso and face as they go down a hill. They don't show anything except exactly _that_ :huh: Especially the skiers because they stand forward which makes them wider in front of the camera so there's less to actually see. But who watches ski videos anyway?


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## trez17 (Jan 2, 2013)

Also trying switch riding here, just started snowboarding 4 months ago, mainly indoor.

In the beginning switch was really frustrating me, I always turned back to my right (normal) foot. The main problem now with riding switch/regular is my posture, I always lean back or can't get my body right in the turns. 

Particularly toe-side it's still difficult, but if I see how far I got in these 4 months I just think it's a matter of time, effort & building confidence with your 'wrong' leg in front.


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## poutanen (Dec 22, 2011)

bcasey said:


> Yup that's me haha!
> That was probably the most common run at Lake Louise, really doesn't do the rest of the mountain justice imo as there is such a wide variety of terrain there. Some of my favorite tree lines are at Lake Louise and when it snows.. omg.


Yeah, it was just good for my GF to realize she wasn't going to kill herself out here. Now I've got her running most of the same runs as me there, she did the fenceline gully the other day (double black off eagle ridge 3) and she did really well!

One of my favourites is the old liftline (don't think it's actually called that anywhere). Usually holds snow for a while, trees are spaced just right, and theres that open area near the bottom with a couple big rocks to jump off of! :yahoo:


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## rasmasyean (Jan 26, 2008)

ItchEtrigR said:


> I don't know, I'm no instructor, maybe it is easier to center your stance on a directional twin, I just don't understand how that is going to make riding switch easier when a directional setback twin is already designed to ride switch, its just performance orientated for riding regular.
> 
> Extreme placement to center the stance is simply going to move your axis away from the waist of the board and put you on or in front of the flex point of the tail.
> 
> ...


The way I understand how "most" directional board are supposed to work is as follows. The tip is longer and more flexy so that when you're going fast, it will absorb the bumps furthur ahead of your feet so it won't vibrate your feet as fast and make you lose stability. The tail is stiffer and shorter so that you will get more "pop" comming out of turn (carved mostly) as well as making it easier to "rudder" to a skid/stop.

So since you're a baby again when learning switch, I would say your primary goal is to build the balance and muscle memory to heel-toe-stop, etc. and shouldn't be going fast enough or carving to take advantage of the above mentioned design features. Of course, you can always mount your board backwards to begin with, but they you might make non-switch riding worse I guess. I mean, ppl do offset mounts all the time (e.g. powder days) and it doesn't "mess you up" all that much because it's not exactly at the waist.


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## ItchEtrigR (Jan 1, 2012)

different strokes for different folks I guess. Maybe your right, is this how they are teaching in courses? To center the stance? 

When I learned 16+ years ago we just strapped in and rode, there was no forum to discuss stuff like this, we didn't know what sidecut was. We barely new which side was which, and we certainly did not know why. Switch turned out just fine for the us without centering our stances, and back then I was riding a tapered directional with like several inches of setback with no possibility to get equal nose & tail lengths.

That said I'm teaching my friend from Peru to snowboard, he's on a directional, setback with wider nose than tail. He's learning to ride both ways, after the second day he's linking turns riding regular, I'm sure he'll be linking turns riding switch this weekend when we head up to lillehammer.


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## Deacon (Mar 2, 2013)

blockay said:


> i am terrible at riding switch i tried a couple times over last weekend but i just can't manage to do it. any1 have some tips that might make learning to ride switch easier? also my bindings are set at about 14 and 12. my front foot being 14.


I tried to learn this on the bunny hill last night. I'm just gonna say, eff learning switch. At least until the ice is covered by some snow. ouch.:dizzy:


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## Joe77 (Feb 7, 2013)

I'm new at all this but this is what worked out for me.

I was expecting to fall and crash on my drive to the resort because i know i am new at this and hopefully progression as my rewards by days end. This way, i was able to commit and push my personal limits instead of being trapped behind a wall of trying not to get hurt. I am now pased my worst falls and I am glad it's all behind me. :thumbsup:


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## Gdog42 (Nov 11, 2012)

Joe77 said:


> This way, i was able to commit and push my personal limits instead of being trapped behind a wall of trying not to get hurt. I am now pased my worst falls and I am glad it's all behind me. :thumbsup:


Of all the words from all the users I have ever read on this forum, these are the best. 

Thanks. You've just given the best overall advise a snowboarder can use. :eusa_clap:


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## jtg (Dec 11, 2012)

poutanen said:


> Yeah, it was just good for my GF to realize she wasn't going to kill herself out here. Now I've got her running most of the same runs as me there, she did the fenceline gully the other day (double black off eagle ridge 3) and she did really well!


Your GF went from those flat green runs at louise to DBs in 2 seasons? :blink:


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## poutanen (Dec 22, 2011)

jtg said:


> Your GF went from those flat green runs at louise to DBs in 2 seasons? :blink:


Not exactly. She was riding some medium blues at Jay Peak on a trip the season before we moved west. But since then she's gone from being totally scared to get into any of the bowls at Fernie, to running Eagle Ridge 3 at Louise (not just a double black, but a double with big rocks and shit on it)... And we're finishing our second season in the west.

I'm really impressed with her riding but she still doesn't see herself as good yet?!? :dunno:


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## snowklinger (Aug 30, 2011)

poutanen said:


> Not exactly. She was riding some medium blues at Jay Peak on a trip the season before we moved west. But since then she's gone from being totally scared to get into any of the bowls at Fernie, to running Eagle Ridge 3 at Louise (not just a double black, but a double with big rocks and shit on it)... And we're finishing our second season in the west.
> 
> I'm really impressed with her riding but she still doesn't see herself as good yet?!? :dunno:


Tell her you are on monoskis now so she can catch up in no time. :thumbsup:


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## poutanen (Dec 22, 2011)

snowklinger said:


> Tell her you are on monoskis now so she can catch up in no time. :thumbsup:


Here's a skwal for ya! Just a little wider than a powder ski... :blink:


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## aiidoneus (Apr 7, 2011)

jtg said:


> Your GF went from those flat green runs at louise to DBs in 2 seasons? :blink:


My gf and I have gone from video game playing, bar hopping university couch potatoes to back country free riding in what is now our 3rd season. If we can do it, sure lots can do it in less time.


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## Wangta (Feb 1, 2011)

aiidoneus said:


> My gf and I have gone from video game playing, bar hopping university couch potatoes to back country free riding in what is now our 3rd season. If we can do it, sure lots can do it in less time.


She sounds like a keeper!


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## aiidoneus (Apr 7, 2011)

Wangta said:


> She sounds like a keeper!


Ya, I lucked out. She is great.


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## poutanen (Dec 22, 2011)

aiidoneus said:


> Ya, I lucked out. She is great.


That pic taken at Sunshine? Looks like a bluebird day! :yahoo:


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## Casual (Feb 9, 2011)

Saturday was a bluebird at Louise for sure, you shoulda stayed! I rode some of the stuff we hit friday but I got way tired, headed to the park but was way too tired for that too so I kept hucking terribad 3's and falling on my ass lol. Pretty much rode the rest of the day *switch *just to keep going... see what I did there? Back on topic. haha.


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## aiidoneus (Apr 7, 2011)

poutanen said:


> That pic taken at Sunshine? Looks like a bluebird day! :yahoo:


Ya, at the top of north divide. It was from last year, our first time on a real mountain. We thought we would start with a single black. A few days later we started rippin down the db's on goat eye's. We didn't have any avy gear then, so no divide or wild west.


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## poutanen (Dec 22, 2011)

Casual said:


> Saturday was a bluebird at Louise for sure, you shoulda stayed! I rode some of the stuff we hit friday but I got way tired, headed to the park but was way too tired for that too so I kept hucking terribad 3's and falling on my ass lol. Pretty much rode the rest of the day *switch *just to keep going... see what I did there? Back on topic. haha.


lol... Yeah so when I tried doing that jump *switch* and rotated funny in the air, I landed on my side. Went to the hospital yesterday morning and the doc said I probably didn't crack a rib, most likely just bruised the muscles. But MAN IT HURTS!

Pisses me off that I can ride all the big lines fine, but I try to do a little FS 180 and I bonk myself off the snow. :dizzy:

FUCK SWITCH RIDING! :yahoo:


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