# Over-turning on the heel side



## amirh1 (Apr 16, 2012)

Hi all,
I'm an intermediate snowboarder with about 20-25 days total, can do blue runs great and some easy blacks but I seem to be stuck on this one thing that I can't seem to shake off. 

When I turn on my heel-side in semi-steep runs (think steep blue), I feel I need to over-turn in order to be able to control speed. This causes me to need wider room for my turns and also causes me to work harder as I'm applying more break. In other words, if the fall line is 0 degrees I can't seem to ride my heel side at 30 degrees to the fall line as I feel like I'm not slowing down enough. If I want to stay on my heel side I must ride more at 45 degrees to the fall line. I hope that explains it, if not I've attached a diagram.

BTW if it matters I'm regular footed, 6'1 185lbs on a 162 board with bindings at +21 and +6. Haven't tried many stances...

Maybe one of you has experienced this or knows what to practice to overcome? Thanks!!


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## Deimus85 (Dec 3, 2012)

I would say its simply being more comfortable at staying on one edge while going faster, which will come in time and experience. This will translate in you not digging into your edges so much, therefore causing you to need to switch sides more frequently to maintain a straight trajectory and not snowflake down the mountain. Just keep at it and it will come.


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## oldmate (Oct 24, 2011)

From what you've said it sounds like you get it right on easier runs. So you know what to do. It's just a confidence thing. Just keep at it bro and you'll get it.

Many people wont agree but I used to find the quickest way to build confidence on black runs was to ride something well beyond my comfort zone. Riding double blacks (although not riding them well, and not something narrow either) would give me a huge boost in confidence and control when going back to black runs.


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## XR4Ti (Dec 12, 2009)

Try sticking your butt out more. It will help you get lower, get more edge, and make it easier to get more weight on your front foot, which should give you the control/confidence to reduce your angle.


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## Slush Puppie (Aug 15, 2011)

As Snowolf says the one thing the focus on as it gets steeper is crunching your legs down as you complete each turn. Then extending them as the board heads towards the fall line in the next turn. This one technique will allow you to ride steep and narrow stuff. Practice by deliberately testing yourself by seeing how narrow a corridor you can turn in on the piste. When the time comes you've be able to confidently ride challenging terrain in a controlled manner.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/w94jh7ba20b3rf5/IMG_0355.jpg









The more you focus on being dynamic, the more controlled you will be.


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## t21 (Dec 29, 2010)

I concur with all of them. This is my 3rd season and had 40 days last year. confidence on speed and definitely dynamic turns is the key. the DT controls your speed, and if possible look for an area where you can practice this. and if you feel you got it down on a semi-steep blue,go to a black run and do the same thing. It may be a bit frustrating at first but once you have dialed your turns on black it will come naturally on easier runs towards the lodge:laugh: . goodluck and have fun!


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## Donutz (May 12, 2010)

Interestingly (to me anyway) I've had a similar problem that I've been working on for a couple of years. I'd describe the specifics differently, but it still comes down to my heelside turns being handled differently from my toesides.

On any kind of steeps, I'll find that I turn more to heelside and tend to skid or skitter on my tail a bit. This has been consistent enough to be a real problem on steeps. Today on Seymour (also after having read this thread), I paid special attention to this. This is what I came up with, and when I corrected it I found my steeps handling improved.

First, I do simply tend to turn more away from the fall line when going heelside. This immediately means more pressure on the edges. I'm not sure of the motivation -- less comfortable with going downhill when I can see it?

Second, I don't normally do the flexion/extension thing, at least not as much as I should. This means that once I'm on the heel edge and essentially braking, it doesn't ease up.

Third, although I have no problem committing to the next turn when I'm on toeside, I find a distinct reluctance to lean down the hill with my upper body when I'm facing downhill.

Today I made a point of not turning to go completely across the fall line heelside; I worked on getting the flexion/extension going on both sides; and most importantly I tried to commit to initiating the heelside turn.

Made a big difference.


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## jml22 (Apr 10, 2012)

How to Snowboard - Get Dynamic - YouTube


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## t21 (Dec 29, 2010)

for shit and giggles i did what the OP was describing(blue line) on a black run.since were both regular footed, i wanted to see how i would approach a run especially if there were some icy spots. it was the quickest way down with probably two turns then bomb it. felt good :thumbsup:


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## Deimus85 (Dec 3, 2012)

jml22 said:


> How to Snowboard - Get Dynamic - YouTube


:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

Once I stopped being so stiff legged and began to hop around from edge to edge, use my core and upper body to shift my weight quicker, and make my body more "liquid," I noticed an extremely dramatic improvement in my riding, especially at high speeds and on steeps.

It is important to ride within your abilities, so working on these things at a comfortable pace is crucial to staying safe. Don't worry, if you have a desire to improve and the willpower, you will get better in time.

In regards to that video, I have tried listening to my iPod on the hill and find it distracting and puts me in a bubble. I do like to listen to it on the lift, however. To each their own.


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## Slush Puppie (Aug 15, 2011)

One particular thing you should notice it that when you are really being dynamic that feeling of "oh shit I have to point the the board down _that_ hill" almost goes away. The mechanics of the leg extension mean that by the time your body starts to pick up vertical speed during the turn, the board has already made the turn and all you have to do is slow yourself down by compressing your legs and arresting the body's vertical motion. Even when initiating the first turn on the steeps, crunch right down and 'stand up' as you start to turn. It feels like this very motion initiates the turn positively. The turn will be done in a flash and you will be in control at all times. It's a great feeling and steep no longer feels steep once you get it.

The photo i linked to earlier is around 45deg (probably 55 at the very top) no more than a few meters wide. I rode that at about 30days experience. And felt confident and controlled the whole way down using this technique. Hopefully this is actually visible in the reasonably tidy line. Let me tell you, getting first tracks (for the season) down somewhere like this at my level of experience was a mind-blowing experience


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## jml22 (Apr 10, 2012)

Not only does being dynamic help in various terrain it's just all around more fun turning the way in the video. Way more fun than all the ruddering and like snap rotations i see/used to do


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## amirh1 (Apr 16, 2012)

@Snowolf, I want to understand this dynamic thing better, did some reading in other posts (some of them yours). I have a couple of questions about this:
* How does dynamic turning help me feel more in control/control my speed? The way I brake is by ruddering/scrubbing, but it seems to me that dynamic turns have less brake control. What happens if I have to stop?
* I think I understand the cross-under technique. But cross-over - isn't that what I'm doing in basic link turns, what they teach beginners? When I transition from toe to heel my body crosses over the board from toe to heel side - so how is this different from dynamic cross-over?

Thanks!


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## NoirX252 (Aug 1, 2009)

You don't want to actually stick your butt out by straightening your legs, riding at low angles (compared to a race alpine), there is a very large assymetric motion between toesides and heel sides. toesides, u naturally bend low, to increase edge angle, u still want to bend low heel sides, try using ur ankles as much as possible to tilt it high up, u must keep the same distance from your butt->board on both turns. don't let ur butt/center of mass get further away, or u will absolutely slip out in all but the most forgiving snow conditions.



XR4Ti said:


> Try sticking your butt out more. It will help you get lower, get more edge, and make it easier to get more weight on your front foot, which should give you the control/confidence to reduce your angle.


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## XR4Ti (Dec 12, 2009)

Hehe, yeah. Don't try to stick out your butt with straight legs! You have to bend at the knees (& not at the waist, which means you're also bending at the ankles) otherwise you won't get up on the edge.


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## kayakBoy (Jan 2, 2013)

One of the things that helps me is mental.

If I start to get squirrelly, usually when tired, I try to visualize that my hips, legs, and board are hanging from my upper body instead of my upper body being supported by the lower.

For some reason, this seems to help keeping balanced and makes the edge to edge transitions cleaner - I unweight edge, shift to other edge, then apply weight again.


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## sfcarve (Jan 10, 2013)

I joined this site just to answer OP's post.

I suffered from the exact same thing on steeper blues/blacks.. short, overturned heelside turns that ended in skidding. Your picture summed it up perfectly.

What helped me finally is that I realized I was opening my shoulders majorly before switching edges.. the steeper the hill the more I turned to face the fall line in advance of the turn.. trying to make my board swing around faster.

What finally fixed this was forcing my shoulders to stay parallel with my board and initiating the turn by flexing my front knee and using my ankles and feet to switch edges and start the turn with no upper body rotation. Its a little gnarly on a steep hill to flip to your downhill heelside edge with your back to the fall line, but once you prove to yourself it works, you get so much better turn shape and speed control.

Hope that helps!


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