# 19/20 union washer on 2018?



## kriegs13 (Nov 28, 2016)

sush1 said:


> Was looking at a cheap pair of 2018 atlas, wondering if you can upgrade the washers to the new locking ones somehow?
> 
> Have seen so many threads about them coming loose, is it possible to get and install the upgraded new version?


email Union/C3 customer service. They charge like $12 or something shipping but they will send them out if they have them in stock. They certainly make all the difference.


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## SlvrDragon50 (Mar 25, 2017)

kriegs13 said:


> email Union/C3 customer service. They charge like $12 or something shipping but they will send them out if they have them in stock. They certainly make all the difference.


This is what I did with my Falcors. Kinda sucks that they charge so much for shipping


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## kriegs13 (Nov 28, 2016)

SlvrDragon50 said:


> This is what I did with my Falcors. Kinda sucks that they charge so much for shipping


Ya, but i mean...it is a retro fit and not technically a warranty issue. FWIW, the first pair they didnt charge me the first time because my Contacts were making my life miserable so they just took care of it. The second time, it was the 13 shipping but that also covered the force highbacks like they normally would for warranty.


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## JDA (Feb 10, 2016)

Can someone explain tome how these new washers solve the problem? I have last years contacts, got the new washers off union and put them on but I don't see how they wont come loose again.


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## kriegs13 (Nov 28, 2016)

JDA said:


> Can someone explain tome how these new washers solve the problem? I have last years contacts, got the new washers off union and put them on but I don't see how they wont come loose again.



The two washers on either side of the strap now have teeth where they meet preventing them from spinning independently and potentially back spinning the screw. That's hard to explain without photos..but i promise that it makes sense


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## sush1 (Sep 26, 2017)

Sent some emails to union aus and us cause im in aus. Have to see how we go...


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## duddersdud (Feb 2, 2019)

I have the 2019 scotty stevens bindings and they are always getting loose from my board. Do these washers correct that?


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## SlvrDragon50 (Mar 25, 2017)

duddersdud said:


> I have the 2019 scotty stevens bindings and they are always getting loose from my board. Do these washers correct that?


Getting loose from the board probably means you aren't tightening the disc screws enough.


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## speedjason (May 2, 2013)

duddersdud said:


> I have the 2019 scotty stevens bindings and they are always getting loose from my board. Do these washers correct that?


Need to tighten till the screws bottom out.


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## kriegs13 (Nov 28, 2016)

duddersdud said:


> I have the 2019 scotty stevens bindings and they are always getting loose from my board. Do these washers correct that?


are you talking about the baseplates getting loose to the point where they start shifting left to right? I had the same issue with my contact (but not forces). It's the baseplate padding breaking in and loosening the hardware as it compresses and decompresses while riding. It went away for me after around 20 laps (thats a rough estimate but you know what I'm saying).

what we are talking about is the ankle strap hardware that fixes the issue where they would loosen and sometimes fall off.


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## kriegs13 (Nov 28, 2016)

SlvrDragon50 said:


> Getting loose from the board probably means you aren't tightening the disc screws enough.





speedjason said:


> Need to tighten till the screws bottom out.


Nah, the bushings underfoot do this even if you bottom out or do the Union prescribed method of first screw without washer. It's just a break-in period that needs to be endured.


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## speedjason (May 2, 2013)

kriegs13 said:


> Nah, the bushings underfoot do this even if you bottom out or do the Union prescribed method of first screw without washer. It's just a break-in period that needs to be endured.


Never had issues with screws loosening when I tighten mine all the way.
Also I don't recommend not using the washer. It can put too much force on the disc and break it.


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## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

if in doubt get some internal/external locking washers in the correct size...cost like 5-10 cents at the hardware store....and if these don't fix the problem...get some thin profile nylock nutz for the strap bolt. Btw these locking washers will also work for screws for the base disc.


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## buller_scott (Jun 10, 2018)

wrathfuldeity said:


> if in doubt get some internal/external locking washers in the correct size...cost like 5-10 cents at the hardware store....and if these don't fix the problem...get some thin profile nylock nutz for the strap bolt. Btw these locking washers will also work for screws for the base disc.


amazing what you can find at the hardware store, isn't it? i for one will not ever be buying overpriced snowboard insert sets again, given what's available.

i've not had first hand experience with the Union ankle strap bolt issue [that's an absolute deal breaker for me], but would rubber washers / internal lock washers / clear nail polish on the bolt threads solve the issue? you'd end up paying like a few bucks for 20+ sets of washers that are designed to work from the get-go [rather than a band aid solution to an inherent design flaw]

WAY back in the day, i used to have loosening Flux highback hardware [back when i was a poor student, and HAD to make the bindings work, rather than.... just getting superior bindings]. hardware store sorted that out right away.


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## JDA (Feb 10, 2016)

To me it seems the problem is with the bolt that locks it all together, not the washers. 

The inside nut part fits in a slot which holds it in place from turning, the outside bolt part that goes through the straps is free to move every time you move the strap or fold the highback up and down so eventually it comes loose.

If the whole nut and bolt was free to spin together then it should never come loose correct?


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## buller_scott (Jun 10, 2018)

JDA said:


> To me it seems the problem is with the bolt that locks it all together, not the washers.
> 
> The inside nut part fits in a slot which holds it in place from turning, the outside bolt part that goes through the straps is free to move *every time you move the strap or fold the highback up and down* so eventually it comes loose.
> 
> If the whole nut and bolt was free to spin together then it should never come loose correct?


damn! so not one, but TWO ways to get that screw loose? that's not good. i just looked at pics of what is being discussed - i'd trust the stuff to stay together in the snowboard store / showroom floor, then start coming loose when used for actual snowboarding, pretty quickly. whoever designed that, should be fired. 

hmmm. hardware store, small low profile button-head screws + bolts and washers to fit, and going from inside to outside of the binding:
*button head
*washer
*highback
*heelcup
*chassis
*washer [or nylon washer]
*ladder
*washer [or nylon washer]
*bolt, affixed with nail polish [although locktite would serve its purpose here]

would that work? or is there not enough clearance on the inside of the highback for this?

EDIT: ah but then you've got potential issues with the ladder hole being chewed out by the screw threads, unless you superglued / nail polished / taped that small section of threading.


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## sush1 (Sep 26, 2017)

... maybe ill stick to switchback haha


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## buller_scott (Jun 10, 2018)

sush1 said:


> ... maybe ill stick to switchback haha


no no no, the bindings CAN work with bits and pieces from the hardware store.

although they might look a little like this, when you're done:


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## JDA (Feb 10, 2016)

Well I'm not sure my theory is correct but if it is then the simple way to fix it is to drill out the slot so the inside nut is free to spin and that will stop it undoing. 
The only downside to that is you would need a second screwdriver to hold the inside nut still if you wanted to make any adjustments.


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## buller_scott (Jun 10, 2018)

JDA said:


> Well I'm not sure my theory is correct but if it is then the simple way to fix it is to drill out the slot so the inside nut is free to spin and that will stop it undoing.
> The only downside to that is you would need a second screwdriver to hold the inside nut still if you wanted to make any adjustments.


your theory sounded bang on, so i had a bit of a look, and unfortunately it looks like it's not just the highback positioning holes that would need to be drilled [as i'd have thought] - you'd have to drill the heelcup, and potentially the chassis, instead. 

the ankle/highback mounting hardware step from: the bolt head [inner most] -> round section -> square section. 

now, looking at the pic below [article #5 and #1 ], it appears as though the bolt goes flush into the highback holes, then the square part of the bolt seats into female square holes in at least the heel cup, and potentially the chassis [note how the square holes in the heel cup, are angled to match the elongated corresponding slot in the chassis - i'm thinking the square part of the bolt in the ankle strap hardware, seats into both heelcup and chassis, as a locking function]:









if it's just the heel cup that needs to be drilled, godspeed to anyone happy to do it [i personally could not bring myself to drill such a load bearing, mission-critical part], but if the chassis has to be notched out as well.... in order for ankle straps to stop falling off? not good, in 2019. 

i'm thinking the easiest thing would be to approach the issue from the outside of the binding - use existing hardware, but replace washers with nylon ones from the hardware store, with some silicon grease [not sure if this is a big no-no on nylon washers, but it works fine on my "why did i spend this much???" fountain pens, so it'd hopefully be okay].

coat the screw threads in nail polish or locktite [purpose fit in this instance], and not tighten the hardware too much, so that there's that little bit of play for the grease and washers to work.


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## kriegs13 (Nov 28, 2016)

The issue has been fixed with the new hardware....nerds 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## speedjason (May 2, 2013)

buller_scott said:


> your theory sounded bang on, so i had a bit of a look, and unfortunately it looks like it's not just the highback positioning holes that would need to be drilled [as i'd have thought] - you'd have to drill the heelcup, and potentially the chassis, instead.
> 
> the ankle/highback mounting hardware step from: the bolt head [inner most] -> round section -> square section.
> 
> ...


The 2019 has a different design where there is a part that fits into the adjustment holes. The part that spins in the straps has teeth to match the part that locks into the adjustment holes.


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## moneer123 (Nov 17, 2018)

I have the Union Atlas 18/19. This model does not have the upgraded washer system you’re referring to, correct?


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