# Force or Cartel?



## sweeper (Mar 4, 2011)

So I'm pretty much set on board and boots, but still debating on bindings.

I've decided to buy everything together as my shop will give me a discount that way. So I'm set on the Bataleon Goliath, either 157W or 158 (I'm 155lbs), and seems like I'll be getting some Nike Vapens, size 11.5 or 12.

Now I'm stuck between Cartels and Forces. I've heard really good things about the Forces this year from everyone I've spoken to, but I've ridden Cartels before and I really liked them (this was 5-6 years ago, so I'm guessing they've changed a lot since).

Any suggestions?
Thanks!


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## eer5000 (Jan 11, 2012)

I would choose the Forces over the Cartels. Both are good bindings, with similar specs but in terms of long term reliability I would choose the forces. I have seen more broken ladders on cartels/burtons than unions. Though one good thing is that most shops have replacement burton ladders, and they will fit on unions and work smoothly in the ratchets with no problem.


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## sweeper (Mar 4, 2011)

Cool, that's interesting to know as I was leaning towards the Cartels, thanks. The Forces do look like they're built like tanks I have to admit. 

Should mention that I ride mostly groomers and a bit of powder if I can, don't get the chance to do park as much as I'd like as I'm usually with the girlfriend. Any more suggestions would be great!


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## Rufus (Nov 7, 2008)

I've tried other brands but keep coming back to Burton bindings. Right now I have three pairs of Cartels plus some Missions and CO2s. My 2012 Missions remind me a lot of the Cartels from a few years ago, might be worth checking out.


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## Tech420 (Jul 1, 2011)

I have 2012 Cartel's and I love them so far. I find the ankle strap to be comfortable and the toe cap is great. I had a toe slider tear and Burton had 2 sitting at my door within 5 days of emailing them. You can't beat the customer service.


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## sweeper (Mar 4, 2011)

Thanks for the replies.

I honestly don't really know the difference between the two, it sounds as though the tech is pretty similar. I'm quite tempted by the Cartels just because they look a bit nicer than the Forces (Cartels are green and black to go with a green and black board) but I know that's a really stupid reason. Just can't seem to see any obvious advantages.


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## Rufus (Nov 7, 2008)

I think the ratchets operate smoother on the Cartels and I prefer the Cartel toe straps. And the green 2012 Cartels do look good, that's what I've got on a new K2 Parkstar.


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## Kapn.K (Jan 8, 2009)

I demo'd a few libs with cartels. They were cool. I ended up buying Force SL's. Love 'em.
I don't think you can go wrong with either. Both solid units. Leave it to best deal or personal preference.
Steve


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## dlau247 (Feb 16, 2009)

i got some oldie 2010 forces and they seem pretty damn heavy. im looking to switch to cartels and rode on my friends it seems more reponsive and lighter in my opinion.


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## Sick-Pow (May 5, 2008)

Cartels are lighter, rachets work better, (Union are notorious for being sucky), and I do not like metal heel loops, the Forces are AL heel loops. I also find the adjustments on Union to be somewhat a hassle, having to move the heel cup. For some people though, that does not matter. Most people who shop for Union, shop for colors, so I think you are OK liking the cartels for the colors...its ok, be a fashonista.


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## NoahO (Jan 22, 2012)

I haven't worn the Forces but I'm currently using the 2012 Cartels and I'm happy with them. I especially like the toe strap and how it fits the boot. I'd go with the Cartels on the fact that there are plenty of people who are using them and just about all of the people I asked before I bought mine said positive things. Now that I've used them a while I'd have to agree.


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## bebop_monk (Jan 23, 2011)

I bought some 2012 Cartel's and hated them. Feels like they are not responsive at all, and all around not a playful binding. They are very comfortorable though, and I love their toe cap. But after two days of riding and doing all kinds of adjustments, I just wasn't having fun riding them so I went out and bought some Union Atlas' and am much happier.


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## Leo (Nov 24, 2009)

Just chiming in to comment on the Burton broken straps comment... Burton has the biggest market share in the industry. For every Union binding you see, you are going to see tons of Cartels (one of B's top sellers). So obviously, you're going to see/hear about more breakage.

Union is bomb-proof. I will say they are built stronger than Burton bindings. But Burton bindings by no means are easily breakable.

Union is notorious for their toe strap fitment and toe ratchet stickiness. Burton is regularly praised for their ratchets. I'm indifferent about Burton's toe caps and I use Burton boots. 

Burton has autocant and the 2012 non EST Cartel has Re:Flex.

Force is more flexy than Cartels.


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## phony_stark (Jul 2, 2011)

Leo said:


> Just chiming in to comment on the Burton broken straps comment... Burton has the biggest market share in the industry. For every Union binding you see, you are going to see tons of Cartels (one of B's top sellers). So obviously, you're going to see/hear about more breakage.
> 
> Union is bomb-proof. I will say they are built stronger than Burton bindings. But Burton bindings by no means are easily breakable.
> 
> ...


What leo said....except the Union's toe strap is no longer an issue, and in my opinion, is the most reliable one I have tried. My union Atlas toe strap stays on my boot until I don't want it to. You can yardsale, fuck up jumps....anything and that strap will be on. Burton's gettagrip on my malavitas slips sometimes, NOT OFTEN, but sometimes.

I like unions more overall, but burton has the smoothest ratchets in the universe, and the Asym strap (you'd have to get the Cartel Restricted) is WILD comfortable.

You can't go wrong with either.


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## Leo (Nov 24, 2009)

phony_stark said:


> What leo said....except the Union's toe strap is no longer an issue, and in my opinion, is the most reliable one I have tried. My union Atlas toe strap stays on my boot until I don't want it to. You can yardsale, fuck up jumps....anything and that strap will be on. Burton's gettagrip on my malavitas slips sometimes, NOT OFTEN, but sometimes.
> 
> I like unions more overall, but burton has the smoothest ratchets in the universe, and the Asym strap (you'd have to get the Cartel Restricted) is WILD comfortable.
> 
> You can't go wrong with either.


I didn't mean to make it sound like the Union toe straps will fall off if done cap style. They stayed on fine. The fitment was still poor for me though. The bottom lip on them did not hug my boot. However, these were demo pairs and they supposedly tweaked the design.

I'm curious to see if they changed anything for 2013. Bindings are beginning to look very interesting next season with a lot of companies making changes.


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## phony_stark (Jul 2, 2011)

Leo said:


> I didn't mean to make it sound like the Union toe straps will fall off if done cap style. They stayed on fine. The fitment was still poor for me though. The bottom lip on them did not hug my boot. However, these were demo pairs and they supposedly tweaked the design.
> 
> I'm curious to see if they changed anything for 2013. Bindings are beginning to look very interesting next season with a lot of companies making changes.



Yeah the demos I heard didn't fit well, but all that's changed now, unless he's going to buy samples/demos. I personally thought that the new toe strap wasn't going to be as good or exactly the same as my DLX toe strap, and I was wrong. Like, the design is nothing to write home about, but as far as function, it's really the best toe strap I have used, they start to break in and conform around the third day. (Nike Kajus/ZF1s Burton Hails)

OFF TOPIC:
Hey, how come you didn't review the Joystick? I think we're about the same size and am super bummed you didn't write a review on agnarchy.


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## Leo (Nov 24, 2009)

phony_stark said:


> Yeah the demos I heard didn't fit well, but all that's changed now, unless he's going to buy samples/demos. I personally thought that the new toe strap wasn't going to be as good or exactly the same as my DLX toe strap, and I was wrong. Like, the design is nothing to write home about, but as far as function, it's really the best toe strap I have used, they start to break in and conform around the third day. (Nike Kajus/ZF1s Burton Hails)
> 
> OFF TOPIC:
> Hey, how come you didn't review the Joystick? I think we're about the same size and am super bummed you didn't write a review on agnarchy.


I'm getting on it this season. The past few seasons I've been restricted to whatever my work's snowboard buyer assigns to me.

Since I'm on aGNARchy now, I took a day of test fest just for our site this year. The Joystick has always been in my sights. Was just never able to get on it.


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