# Newbie first season....Buy or Rent?



## Leo (Nov 24, 2009)

I would totally get new stuff. The reason being, even though your rental fee is actually quite decent, it's still throwing away $170. Now a good pair of boots alone could cost you that much, but you'll be saving in the long run because it won't be throw away money. It would be an investment towards something that you will inevitably purchase anyway.

I highly suggest you find some comfortable boots first and foremost as a bad pair of boots can ruin your whole experience.

Word of caution while searching for boots. Don't be deceived by boots that are super comfortable straight out of the box. Snowboard boots are soft shell which means they will break in after a few runs. A pair of out-of-box comfy boots will end up being too loose. You want to find a boot that is snug. Not circulation cutting snug, but around dress shoes snug. You know, like tuxedo shoes? You also want to make sure that you don't have any heel lift. If you are going to buy from a shop (recommended for boots), make sure you try them on while you do the rest of your browsing. Just walk around in them and thank the employee for letting you do so.

The next important investment is obviously the board. You can save by getting a current year entry level board, but it would be smarter to get a previous season's mid-entry board. This is because you will outgrow that entry level board really fast.

Avoid the top-of-the-line boards for now (unless you find a deal that is too good to pass up) as it might increase the learning curve for you. You also have to be prepared to bang your board (and especially your body) up. It's going to have scratches and dings from your learning mistakes.

The difference between a good new board from a crappy rental is night and day. Heck, the boots alone will make most of the difference. Rental boots are an absolute must to avoid in my eyes. Not only is it gross, but they are all worn out and mis-formed due to hundreds of feet having been inside them. Boots are meant to be worn by one person because the liner molds to that specific rider's feet.

If you can, try and get a mellow rockered board on the softer side of the medium spectrum. This will help with the edge catches. Also make sure that you don't get a board that is too long. Try and stay dead center of the board's recommended weight range.


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## Cavman (Mar 1, 2010)

Totally agree with Leo.

Boots first. A decent set of boots will enhance your control of the board (any board) and rapidly speed up your development.

If you buy a board then spend more on the bindings and get a lesser board. Boards are like tyres, they wear out and get replaced. A decent set of bindings can last several boards.

I bought a new board earlier this year, it was a brand new but an older model (2yrs old) never used, less than 1/2 price. 

Also too, your riding style, and what you want to do on the board, will determine what sort of board you want. Freestyle or freeride. Until you start developing a style you won't know which one you will eventually go with and subsequently which board you will want.

This is where SBA kicks in (SNOWBOARD BUYING ADDICTION) I have that bad and now have three boards hehe


So spend the money on your boots first and develop your skills a bit, you will then know if you want to hang at the park, shred the mountain or cruise the groomers.

Good luck.


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## slyder (Jan 18, 2010)

I'm not in the awesome Colorado, but here in the Midwest and it's totally different snow. Last year was my family's 1st year. We rented a few times then I was able to secure a few used boards. My oldest son go new gear as his X-Mas gift early. Riding the rental compared to even our used stuff was night and day. 

You may want to consider good boots then used boards??
Plus I started wax our own gear do to cost. You don't mind learning edge tuning and hot wax on a used board as opposed to a new $400+ dollar board.

Here it's a lot of compact snow, lots of man made snow, and not much powder. I invested in some impact shorts, to late mind you. I got 2 sets, Skeletools and Azzpadz I really needed them and recommend them.

Enjoy your season ours won't start till early Dec maybe Nov if the snow gods shine on us, but have fun!!!!
-Slyder


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## lilfoot1598 (Mar 7, 2009)

Everyone here has provided excellent advice. Rental gear is generally pretty awful and if you're spending 1-2 days per week on snow, you'l want to have good equipment. Same goes for outerwear: you will want to be comfortable, so don't skimp!


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## FlipsideJohn (Jan 19, 2010)

I agree with everyone here. 
Boots should be your main priority. No heel lift, snug, comfortable. Before buying a board, I would suggest deciding what type of riding you'll be doing. All Mountain, Free ride, freestyle, park, etc. Can't really help with bindinds b/c I don't know much about them. I've heard great things about Rome and Flows though.


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## Leo (Nov 24, 2009)

Just to add...

I'm sure you don't know what type of riding you'll do. Don't spend too much time worrying about it. Just find a board that has a middle-of-the-road flex. Avoid stiff boards and super soft park boards. The park board is going to make your learning an easier process, but if you so decide to pick up speed, it's going to wash out on you. A stiff board is going to be too fast and hard to control while learning. A medium flexing board can go both ways (that sounded funny) so you'll be set until you figure out your style.


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## Cavman (Mar 1, 2010)

Does that make it a Bi-Board?


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## Leo (Nov 24, 2009)

Cavman said:


> Does that make it a Bi-Board?


Indeed! A Bi-Curious board. :thumbsup:


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## vote4pedro (Dec 28, 2009)

I'd spend the majority of your money on good boots and bindings. Get a cheap board (possibly even used), you won't notice the difference your first season anyway. Unless you get a reverse camber board, which will ride quite a bit different. 

This way, you'll know more about how you like to ride (most likely freeriding). So you'll have a better idea what kind of board to get when you decide to spend real $$$.

The other advantage in this is this season's boards will will go on clearance (40%-50% off) around March. I bought a $550 board for $290 this way. 

Also, I'd buy your board and bindings online. Once you know your size, it's pretty safe this way. Your local board shop will most likely screw you. But you'll want to buy boots where you can try them on. As for the boots, as others have said, don't pick the most comfortable out of the box. They're probably too big. The right boots will feel too tight. But wear them for 15 minutes and the insulation will pack out. They should still be tight (you don't want your foot to move) but not so tight they hurt. Also, squat down to see if your heel comes up from the bottom of the boot. If it does, they don't fit. You don't want your feet moving at all inside your boots. 

One other thing, I personally like buying from REI. They have a lifetime satisfaction policy. So if you buy your boots there and decide they don't fit after a few times out, you can take them back no questions asked. That's where I bought my board on clearance. (Found it online and picked it up at the store). They told me even if I break it 5 years from now, bring it back and they'll refund my money. It's a nice little insurance policy.


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## noahj (Dec 25, 2009)

Good advice here, thanks a ton! My local Play it Again Sports usually has tons of boards out by October, but i wouldn't know what i'm buying...but that would be a good place i think to get a used board. I have no problem buying a used board, just don't know what to buy and if it's a decent deal or not. 

I definitely think i want an All Mountain board for my first. The salesman i talked to the other day was saying he would suggest a Park, but i'm about 95% sure i won't be doing any park stuff this season. If i do, it won't be for quite a while. That sound about right?

And buying the bindings and boots online (after trying them in store) is a good idea too. Just gotta go try some stuff out and see what works for me.

And bindings, will any binding fit any type of board? Can i get my bindings first and then look for a board?


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## Leo (Nov 24, 2009)

The reason why the shop employee probably recommended a park board is due to the flex. Park boards are softer which means it will be more forgiving. This makes sense since you are learning and any help in the control department is good. However, this is also a bad thing the moment snowboarding just clicks and you feel the need for speed. This is a cycle that every snowboarder I have encountered goes through. Some never leave that phase. Once people learn how to snowboard properly, the first thing that crosses their mind is "Let's go faster." When you do hit that stage, however short or long the period, you are going to hate that park board.

This is why I suggested an all-mountain board. All-mountain boards will be medium in flex. Actually, I suggest all-mountain freestyle so it is on the softer side of the medium spectrum. This is a good balance for beginners. Yes, it is going to be slightly harder to learn on than a park board, but you aren't going to notice something that you haven't even tried. If you haven't tried a park board, then how are you going to know that it's better to learn on?

As for trying on boots and buying online, that is generally frowned upon here on the forums lol. I normally buy the boots from the place I am trying them on at just to be nice. However, I am fully aware that people are simply trying to get the best deals. Just a personal recommendation. If you try boots on in the store, at least pick up a pair of socks or something small from there so the employees/owner at least get something for their time and advice.

The binding issue is going to be a tricky one. If you go with a Burton board, you are going to have a headache with the binding thing. Burton has either a 3D system or an ICS system. Both require unique bindings from within their brand. If you go with another company's bindings, you will need to get conversion discs to mount them. This goes the same for Burton bindings on other brands' boards with the exception of an EST binding which can only be used on an ICS board. Other than that, the other brands use the same mounting system so you shouldn't have any problems there (I say shouldn't because people always manage to find some obscure brand or equipment).

You can get the bindings before the board, but it's better to go the other way around. This is because you want to match the flex of binding and board. If you have a stiff board, you're going to want a stiffish binding. If you have a soft binding, you are going to want a softish board. I'd definitely choose a board then the binding. Bindings are the least important part of a snowboarder's setup in my opinion. They do make a difference in comfort for sure though so don't write my comment off as bindings not being important. Just the least out of the rest.


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## noahj (Dec 25, 2009)

Well i'm more than likely going to buy my boots in store. The bindings and board i'll have to see.

For boards, is it written anywhere on the board what type of board it is? If it's say an All Mountain, will it have that written somewhere on the board? Reason i ask is if i go out and i'm looking at used boards and i have noone to tell me what style it is, will the board be identified as the style?

And lastly, bindings....So if i buy boots and board, can i come here for advice on specific bindings or do i need to try them out like boots? How specific to each person are they?


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## vote4pedro (Dec 28, 2009)

noahj said:


> Well i'm more than likely going to buy my boots in store. The bindings and board i'll have to see.
> 
> For boards, is it written anywhere on the board what type of board it is? If it's say an All Mountain, will it have that written somewhere on the board? Reason i ask is if i go out and i'm looking at used boards and i have noone to tell me what style it is, will the board be identified as the style?
> 
> And lastly, bindings....So if i buy boots and board, can i come here for advice on specific bindings or do i need to try them out like boots? How specific to each person are they?


The boards won't be marked. You'll have to know what you're looking at. The seller will probably know what type of board it is. But may or may not be honest with you. I'd try ebay. Post what you find in your size and we can tell you if it's all mountain or not. Also, if you tell us your height, weight and boot size, we can tell you your size and some boards to look for.

It's perfectly fine to buy bindings online. They're much more adjustable than boots. For the type of riding you'll be doing, you'll want something on the stiffer side. It'll be more responsive for freeriding. It can be a little more difficult to learn on stiff bindings, but you'll be going often enough, I think you'll get it fairly quick.


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## Leo (Nov 24, 2009)

I don't recall if stickers have this information. If you look the board up on the Internet, the brand's site with that board will definitely have a label for the type of style. Well, the ones that I have seen so far do. If not, you can find tons of retailers that label them for you.

Some boards really are do-it-alls so it's tough to label those. In those situations, they retailer or brand will simply label it for what it's best at.

A prime example is the Ride Machete. It is a park board, but can also be used as an all-mountain freestyle board and it works very well for that.

The most accurate way to tell is the flex. The softer the board, the more likely it is a park board (some soft boards are beginner boards, but you will be able to tell by the price difference). The stiffer the board, the more likely that is an all-mountain board. A real stiff boards will be your freeride board.

Also remember that every brand's flex meter is different. A 7/10 from Ride might be an 8/10 from Lib Tech.

Edit: Pedro, I don't think Noah is going to do any freeriding. He's learning so that means groomers. He will want more forgiving equipment. Again I suggest medium flex. You do not want a stiff pair of boots and bindings. They will be too responsive and will exaggerate your movements when you are learning.


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## noahj (Dec 25, 2009)

Ok...

height 5'11"
weight 190
boot 10


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## vote4pedro (Dec 28, 2009)

you should look for something in the range of 158-162 if you want a traditional camber board. shorter will be a little easier to turn. longer will be a little faster and more stable.

if you want a reverse camber board, probably a 158. reverse camber will be easier to turn and less likely to catch an edge. but is less stable at speed and a bit slower. that said, reverse camber is still pretty new, so you probably won't find a lot of used boards.


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## Leo (Nov 24, 2009)

noahj said:


> Ok...
> 
> height 5'11"
> weight 190
> boot 10


That's almost the same as me. I'm 5'9 (I like to round up and say 5'10 ), 185lb, boot 9.5-10 (currently a 10).

Our basic starting point for board length is 156-163cm. Don't take the size range as gospel as it will vary quite a bit amongst various boards (even within the same brand). You have to check with the board's recommended weight range which is provided on the sticker. It's best to fall close to the center of that scale. However, for my personal tastes, I like to stay on the high end of the weight scale because I like my boards to be a little shorter.

You and I have a good boot size that will fit almost any normal width board in that range. In fact, I have not yet demoed a board that gave me problems within that size range.

For medium flexing boards, you will likely be looking at something that is 158 or 159cm as a good size.


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## vote4pedro (Dec 28, 2009)

Leo said:


> I don't recall if stickers have this information. If you look the board up on the Internet, the brand's site with that board will definitely have a label for the type of style. Well, the ones that I have seen so far do. If not, you can find tons of retailers that label them for you.
> 
> Some boards really are do-it-alls so it's tough to label those. In those situations, they retailer or brand will simply label it for what it's best at.
> 
> ...



I think he was asking if used boards will be marked. The boards themselves won't be. If he buys new, they usually are.

It will be a little more difficult to learn with stiff boots and bindings, but I think that's the way to go in the long run. If he's going 1-2 days a week, he should have the basics down after a few weeks. It would be kind of a waste to get something softer then either live with them or want to replace them. Personally, I can't see a dad with a 7 year old kid getting into the park if he's just now learning. So I personally wouldn't recommend med-soft bindings just for learning.


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## Leo (Nov 24, 2009)

He can still look the board up on the internet to find the info on the used one.

Also, I didn't say medium-soft. I said Medium. Could go medium-stiff. I think you have freeride confused with all-mountain. Freeride is for carving and powder hunting. It's a big mountain riding type deal. Groomers are all-mountain. Stiff binding and boots are going to make it a good deal tougher to learn on. This is because beginners already exaggerate movements since they don't know how to correctly control themselves yet. They are constantly in a limbo of under-maneuvering and over-maneuvering. Stiff boots and bindings will make it worse.

Easiest way to learn is in fact through soft boots and bindings. The most practical way to learn in my opinion is through medium flex boots and bindings.


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## vote4pedro (Dec 28, 2009)

Leo said:


> He can still look the board up on the internet to find the info on the used one.
> 
> Also, I didn't say medium-soft. I said Medium. Could go medium-stiff. I think you have freeride confused with all-mountain. Freeride is for carving and powder hunting. It's a big mountain riding type deal. Groomers are all-mountain. Stiff binding and boots are going to make it a good deal tougher to learn on. This is because beginners already exaggerate movements since they don't know how to correctly control themselves yet. They are constantly in a limbo of under-maneuvering and over-maneuvering. Stiff boots and bindings will make it worse.
> 
> Easiest way to learn is in fact through soft boots and bindings. The most practical way to learn in my opinion is through medium flex boots and bindings.


I include groomers in freeriding. I don't think freeriding is exclusively big mountain at all. It's basically any non-competitive riding you do for fun, aside from park/half pipe. All mountain includes that plus the halfpipe and park. Which doesn't sound like what he'll be doing.

As for the bindings, I also think he should go med-stiff to stiff because of his location. He'll be going often enough he should learn quickly. And he'll most likely have more forgiving snow. I'd suggest he take a private lesson or two on fresh snow days. I wouldn't try to learn on man made crap early in the season. 

The main reason I say to go stiffer is I think they'll be better in the long run. I think he should be pretty decent halfway through the season. After that, I think he'll appreciate the responsiveness. Boots and bindings can easily last 5 years as long as they're not abused. To me, it wouldn't make sense to buy nice boots and bindings with learning as primary concern. If he were to go that rout, I'd say go cheap then buy better stuff later.


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## noahj (Dec 25, 2009)

Well maybe i'm unsure on what type of riding i'll be doing then.

Only thing i can definitely say i won't be doing this season is park. What i envision is getting on a lift and heading to the top and boarding down....rinse and repeat. (and hanging out with my 7 year old on the smaller slopes)

I assume that would mean i would be looking for an All Mountain board. Is that correct or should i look at something else?


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## Leo (Nov 24, 2009)

Well, freeriding is a different meaning to people from what I'm gathering. I always thought of free-riding as a no rules, not set course style of riding. On groomed runs, there are resort rules and it is pretty much a set course unless you traverse into the other runs.

As for buying nice boots... that's an absolute must. Nice doesn't have to mean expensive. Nice boots means the ones that fit his feet the best. He's going to be miserable if his feet are killing him. That's going to take all the joy out of the sport.

To each his own though. I stick with my medium to medium stiff recommendation. Trying to correct micro-movements with stiff boots and bindings is going to be tough for a beginner.


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## vote4pedro (Dec 28, 2009)

noahj said:


> Well maybe i'm unsure on what type of riding i'll be doing then.
> 
> Only thing i can definitely say i won't be doing this season is park. What i envision is getting on a lift and heading to the top and boarding down....rinse and repeat. (and hanging out with my 7 year old on the smaller slopes)
> 
> I assume that would mean i would be looking for an All Mountain board. Is that correct or should i look at something else?


You've got it right. An all mountain board is what you're looking for.


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## vote4pedro (Dec 28, 2009)

Leo said:


> Well, freeriding is a different meaning to people from what I'm gathering. I always thought of free-riding as a no rules, not set course style of riding. On groomed runs, there are resort rules and it is pretty much a set course unless you traverse into the other runs.
> 
> As for buying nice boots... that's an absolute must. Nice doesn't have to mean expensive. Nice boots means the ones that fit his feet the best. He's going to be miserable if his feet are killing him. That's going to take all the joy out of the sport.
> 
> To each his own though. I stick with my medium to medium stiff recommendation. Trying to correct micro-movements with stiff boots and bindings is going to be tough for a beginner.


Yes, he should buy the boots with best fit regardless of price. I was talking more about the bindings. I'm just going from my own experience. I learned on medium bindings, but I was on pretty crappy snow. I lived in Las Vegas and the local resort was almost always man made, icy or hard packed. I can't remember a single good snow day there. It probably helped to have softer bindings then. When I moved to New Mexico, I had much better snow in Santa Fe and neighboring Colorado. I bought stiffer bindings and found that I had much better control. The medium bindings were causing me to to catch an edge occasionally in faster turns because they weren't doing what I wanted them to. If he were riding the crap snow I learned on, I'd say medium stiffness. But with all the beautiful snow he'll be getting, I'd go med-stiff to stiff. 

That said, I think we agree how they'll behave and that it'll be tougher starting out with stiff bindings and boots. I just think he'll be happier with stiffer bindings once he learns. If he only wants to make one purchase, that's the way I'd go. Something along the lines of Rome Targas.


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## Leo (Nov 24, 2009)

Woot, Vegas is my home town. Sadly, I never got into snowboarding until I moved to Michigan in '04. At least there is a local hill here so I got to shred a lot.

Yes, we do agree on how the bindings will react. I just think starting out on stiffer ones will be too hard. It might take away from his enjoyment and that's not worth it to me.

You and I already had the opportunity of learning and now both ride stiffer bindings. Noah however is still brand spanking newbness.

Where'd you go in Vegas? Mt. Charleston area?


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## vote4pedro (Dec 28, 2009)

Leo said:


> Woot, Vegas is my home town. Sadly, I never got into snowboarding until I moved to Michigan in '04. At least there is a local hill here so I got to shred a lot.
> 
> Yes, we do agree on how the bindings will react. I just think starting out on stiffer ones will be too hard. It might take away from his enjoyment and that's not worth it to me.
> 
> ...


Yep, Mt. Charleston. It sucked. We made a few trips to Brian's Head and Mammoth too. Brian's Head was ok, but a little small. Mammoth could be pretty good depending on the snow. 

Personally, I think he'll be fine with stiffer bindings on fresh snow days. It's pretty forgiving. Avoid the man made stuff and crud until he gets the hang of it. Plus it won't hurt too bad falling in fluffy, fresh snow


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## vote4pedro (Dec 28, 2009)

Or I could always sell him my old board. It's a 161 LTD all mountain board with Ride LX bindings. I was going to throw it on ebay towards the start of the season anyway.


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## Gnarly (Mar 12, 2008)

Hey OP - I'm in Colorado too and I'll give you one of my snowboards for free. All you have to do is come pick it up.

It's a 2008 Capita Stairmaster 156W. I've ridden it maybe 10x and it's in great shape. I have way too many snowboards and that one has been collecting dust since the end of the 08season. I have a ton of bindings too, so if I can find the old pair of LTD bindings, you can have those too since I haven't used them in 4 or 5 years now.

I rode the 156W back when I weighed 225lbs, so it will be more than adequate for you since you're 35lbs lighter. It's pretty bad in pow that's more than a couple inches deep but it's 100% free and it will let you save your $ for next season when you're not a noob.

PM me if you're interested.


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## Leo (Nov 24, 2009)

Gnarly said:


> Hey OP - I'm in Colorado too and I'll give you one of my snowboards for free. All you have to do is come pick it up.
> 
> It's a 2008 Capita Stairmaster 156W. I've ridden it maybe 10x and it's in great shape. I have way too many snowboards and that one has been collecting dust since the end of the 08season. I have a ton of bindings too, so if I can find the old pair of LTD bindings, you can have those too since I haven't used them in 4 or 5 years now.
> 
> ...


That's really awesome of you, but that board will be too wide for him unfortunately. I'm guessing your bindings are also XL? Again too large 

But for him, it will be good in pow since he's much lighter than you and the board is wider than his feet


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## vote4pedro (Dec 28, 2009)

Gnarly said:


> Hey OP - I'm in Colorado too and I'll give you one of my snowboards for free. All you have to do is come pick it up.
> 
> It's a 2008 Capita Stairmaster 156W. I've ridden it maybe 10x and it's in great shape. I have way too many snowboards and that one has been collecting dust since the end of the 08season. I have a ton of bindings too, so if I can find the old pair of LTD bindings, you can have those too since I haven't used them in 4 or 5 years now.
> 
> ...


I would take this offer if I were you. Assuming he's not an axe murderer or anything  Not the ideal board being wide, but you can't beat free.


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## Leo (Nov 24, 2009)

vote4pedro said:


> I would take this offer if I were you. *Assuming he's not an axe murderer or anything*  Not the ideal board being wide, but you can't beat free.


LoL. Or a rapist


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## vote4pedro (Dec 28, 2009)

That too. But to be safe, he could always pre-lube just in case.

Yes, I know that was wrong.


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## Gnarly (Mar 12, 2008)

vote4pedro said:


> Not the ideal board being wide


It's a 26cm WW so he should be just fine. I rode it with size 10.5 Salomon F22's and still had a tiny bit of overhang even with a +15 -9 stance.

And I'm only a raping ax murderer on the 5th Wed of the month.


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## vote4pedro (Dec 28, 2009)

Gnarly said:


> It's a 26cm WW so he should be just fine. I rode it with size 10.5 Salomon F22's and still had a tiny bit of overhang even with a +15 -9 stance.
> 
> And I'm only a raping ax murderer on the 5th Wed of the month.


Should be ok then. But still couldn't hurt to lube up just in case.


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## Leo (Nov 24, 2009)

Thanks Pedro... those last two lines from you made my day.


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## vote4pedro (Dec 28, 2009)

Then my work is done here. Back to my paid "work."


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## noahj (Dec 25, 2009)

Gnarly my friend, just sent you a PM


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## noahj (Dec 25, 2009)

ok, my new BFF Gnarly has a board for me it looks like.

that being said, got several questions related to this.

since i'll be saving some $$ getting a board free, should i spend a bit extra than i would have on #1 boots or #2 bindings?


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## vote4pedro (Dec 28, 2009)

noahj said:


> ok, my new BFF Gnarly has a board for me it looks like.
> 
> that being said, got several questions related to this.
> 
> since i'll be saving some $$ getting a board free, should i spend a bit extra than i would have on #1 boots or #2 bindings?


if he has bindings that fit (and it sounds like he does) just get boots for now. get whichever fit the best. they might be the most expensive or they might be the cheapest. probably somewhere in between. then get bindings when you get a board. the other nice thing is bindings go on clearance around the same time boards do. come spring, you can get a really sick setup reasonably cheap :thumbsup:


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## DimeK2 (Sep 7, 2010)

take that 170 to booooots!


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