# Choosing A New Board for Freeriding



## slither2slither (Apr 1, 2021)

Hello All,

This season I rode Burton Operator 158 2009 version 248mm waist, 2018 ride riot boa boots 12US, Salomon Relay bindings from 2010. I'm 5'10, 200lbs. I learnt to carve on this board within a few days, its amazing but I feel like its a little narrow and wobbly at high speeds. Its supposed to be a park board maybe thats why It's easy to learn on.

I enjoy mostly freeride and hardly go to the park area. I'm trying to do fast carving and was hoping to upgrade to something that could handle hard packed snow groomers. I'm an intermediate rider.

I read info posted by a member, Wiredsport on foot measurement. My foot size is 28cm measured from wall to toe tip. I took some photos of the board and my binding angles. I'm using forward stance, +21+6, but since my binding discs are messed up in the rear i think its more like +12 at the rear. It doesn't bother with the riding. On youtube, Ryan Knapton mentioned that anyone with a size 12 boot should ride a 26cm board or wider. In deeper soft snow I've caught an edge a few times and fell, not sure if its my board or my large boots. Can't tell if the toes are dragging in the snow.

I'm trying to figure out if i should get burton custom, jones hovercraft, or a never summer maverix 2020 year, 160cm, 254mm waist. im more interested in the burton custom because of the history and many good reviews the only issue is that it comes with channel system and i'd have to buy new bindings and i heard that the channel system bindings get lose often and are a pain to keep tightening. The Jones Hovercraft seems like a perfect match because its non wide, 160cm has a 260mm waist.

attached some photos for reference.

Thanks for any suggestions.


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## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

You're current board is defintely narrow for your boot size. Ryan Knapton is a doof, saying that about waist width is the same as recommending board size on height. You might get close, but there are other factors. Sidecut being one. Now, there are plenty of wide boards that carve great so I wouldn't stress to hard on this.

Look at some of the Korua Stuff, Jones Stratos, Bataleon Carver or One, Snofisk Beluga, Lib Swiss Knife or Rocket, K2 Simple Pleasures, Arbor AFrame or Annex, Niche Maelstrom, Weston 10th.


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## robotfood99 (Mar 19, 2016)

slither2slither said:


> The Jones Hovercraft seems like a perfect match because its non wide, 160cm has a 260mm waist.


That didn't sound right so took a look. It's 264mm but should still be great for you.


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## kimchijajonshim (Aug 19, 2007)

Your boots are definitely dragging in the snow. Especially with 10 year old boots.
Personally with size 12s I’d go more like 270, but if you’ve gotten away this long on a 248, you can probably get by with 260-ish.

Don’t stress too much over the specifics, just get a decent quality directional or directional twin wide board that’s around a 7/10 stiffness. If you’ve gotten away that long on that particular setup, you’re not an especially discerning rider and no sense obsessing over it. Just make sure you’re in the right ballpark and buy a board that’s wide enough.

If I was selling you something in the shop I’d probably just hand you a Custom Camber 162W and tell you to have fun.

You could spend days or weeks or months obsessing over the “optimal” choice except you still wouldn’t necessarily make a better decision. For whatever reason the Custom already popped up on your radar, it’s wide enough, and it’s. good enough choice for someone who doesn’t know what they want.


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## slither2slither (Apr 1, 2021)

robotfood99 said:


> That didn't sound right so took a look. It's 264mm but should still be great for you.
> 
> View attachment 158048


thank you!


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## slither2slither (Apr 1, 2021)

kimchijajonshim said:


> Your boots are definitely dragging in the snow. Especially with 10 year old boots.
> Personally with size 12s I’d go more like 270, but if you’ve gotten away this long on a 248, you can probably get by with 260-ish.
> 
> Don’t stress too much over the specifics, just get a decent quality directional or directional twin wide board that’s around a 7/10 stiffness. If you’ve gotten away that long on that particular setup, you’re not an especially discerning rider and no sense obsessing over it. Just make sure you’re in the right ballpark and buy a board that’s wide enough.
> ...


That's very helpful. Thank you so much.


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## SoaD009 (Jan 9, 2020)

Get some proper fitting size 10 boots and your snowboarding life will be much better!


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## slither2slither (Apr 1, 2021)

SoaD009 said:


> Get some proper fitting size 10 boots and your snowboarding life will be much better!



My foot size won't allow me to wear anything less than size 12. My runners are size 13 because I have wide feet.
The boots I use for snowboarding are 2018 ride riot boa size 12 works great. Snowboard needs upgrading and I guess also the bindings mine are a little heavy. Would like to find used burton cartel 2018 or newer 

Thanks


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## ridethecliche (Feb 27, 2019)

slither2slither said:


> My foot size won't allow me to wear anything less than size 12. My runners are size 13 because I have wide feet.
> The boots I use for snowboarding are 2018 ride riot boa size 12 works great. Snowboard needs upgrading and I guess also the bindings mine are a little heavy. Would like to find used burton cartel 2018 or newer
> 
> Thanks


So... Get wide snowboard boots?


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## drblast (Feb 28, 2017)

Get proper fitting boots. Really.


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## slither2slither (Apr 1, 2021)

drblast said:


> Get proper fitting boots. Really.


Did you even read my post? I have no issues with the boots. My snowboard isn't the right size.


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## drblast (Feb 28, 2017)

slither2slither said:


> Did you even read my post? I have no issues with the boots. My snowboard isn't the right size.


Your feet are the same length as mine and I wear a size 10 which gets roomy throughout the season. Unless your feet are wider than they are long, your boots are too big. They make wide snowboard boots, check out the boot forum and people will help you out.

If you hang around this board for a few years you'll see hundreds of posts from people in too large boots swearing they could never fit into their mondo size, then they try it and it's a revelation. This is years of combined experience from multiple people telling you to get your boots worked out before you consider buying a board that's also the wrong size. But it's just advice, take it or leave it.


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## slither2slither (Apr 1, 2021)

drblast said:


> Your feet are the same length as mine and I wear a size 10 which gets roomy throughout the season. Unless your feet are wider than they are long, your boots are too big. They make wide snowboard boots, check out the boot forum and people will help you out.
> 
> If you hang around this board for a few years you'll see hundreds of posts from people in too large boots swearing they could never fit into their mondo size, then they try it and it's a revelation. This is years of combined experience from multiple people telling you to get your boots worked out before you consider buying a board that's also the wrong size. But it's just advice, take it or leave it.



I understand but its snowboard boots not hockey skates. My size 12 riot boots fit and are pretty snug no heel lift. before these boots I had an older northwave, size 12 boot. That's why I was wondering how could you have a 28cm foot and wear a size 10 snowboard boot. I thought both of you are playing April fools joke lol

I will go to a store and try size 10 boots or a size 11 and see if I could fit my foot without spraining my toes. 

Thanks for writing.


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## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

The simplest and most effective trick I use fitting people in the correct size is to pull the footbed out and stand on it. Make sure your heel is proper centered in the heel pocket of the footbed. If you can see footbed at your toes, boots are too big.

And actually yes, snowboard boots, like hockey skates, are a performance piece of equipment and the fit isn't all that different.

You say you're in a 13 for running shoes to accommodate width. Proper running shoe fit is a half size big to account for swelling and it sounds like you probably went up another half size for your width.
A. Go find some Altras, read about efficient gait, and have your life changed.
2. This means your street shoe size is likely 12 at the biggest. And for people like you that have wide feet I see them upsize their street shoes too for width. So good chance on a standard Bannock you measure to an 11.5 or 11. Snowboard boots are the tightest they will ever be in the store. You WILL gain 1/2 to 3/4 size in break in and likely a full size at pack out. You want your toes to touch the end of the boot AFTER is broken in. So in store they should be at least half a size smaller than you measure just to accommodate break in. Also if you have flatter feet a proper real footbed can make your foot 1/4 to 1/2 size smaller.

Finally, you can't fit your own boots. If you have no other option then it is what it is and we can offer advice, but sounds like you have effectively fit 2 pairs of snowboard boots in your life, your own. Go to a legit shop with a good boot fitter as they, like I have, have fit likely thousands of boots. To be blunt, my experience outweighs your own feelings of how a boot should fit.

Take all that how you want. But don't be defensive, I'd say 1/1000 people I fit actually know their boot size, and probably 1/100 actually know their real shoe size. You're not alone.


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## dwdesign (Mar 30, 2011)

slither2slither said:


> I will go to a store and try size 10 boots or a size 11 and see if I could fit my foot without spraining my toes.


Make sure that you measure your foot width as well before trying just any boot. You are a size 28 Mondo (US 10), but WIDE. You'll discover that you may only fit a handful of boots designed for wide feet like specific Salomon Wide models (E width), specific Burton Wide models (EEE width) and maybe a few brands/models not designated as wide (e.g. Adidas).


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## ridethecliche (Feb 27, 2019)

Endeavor scout might be a really good choice too actually.


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## bseracka (Nov 14, 2011)

This thread has taken some interesting twists and turns and I'm surprised that no one has pointed out that the boards being discussed don't particularly qualify as free ride


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## drblast (Feb 28, 2017)

bseracka said:


> This thread has taken some interesting twists and turns and I'm surprised that no one has pointed out that the boards being discussed don't particularly qualify as free ride


You're right, and the original list is all over the map. But boots are more important, and also Nivek's list pretty much covers the board recommendations. I don't know why the rest of us even bother chiming in really.


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## unsuspected (Oct 26, 2015)

Get some proper fitting boots instead of wearing some 2 sizes too big boots.
Both @drblast and @Nivek are trying to help you but just stubborn responses.

I have size 9US or 270mp boots for my 264/267mm feet but since they are wide(EE-width) so I got some wide fitting boots that fits them. Mind-blowing right? Then I got some custom insoles and heat molded liners with more fitting done.
Now they fit as they should with no issues.


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## slither2slither (Apr 1, 2021)

Nivek said:


> The simplest and most effective trick I use fitting people in the correct size is to pull the footbed out and stand on it. Make sure your heel is proper centered in the heel pocket of the footbed. If you can see footbed at your toes, boots are too big.
> 
> And actually yes, snowboard boots, like hockey skates, are a performance piece of equipment and the fit isn't all that different.
> 
> ...


Thank you the other posters didn't write details. I didn't know mondo sizes are different

My snowboard boots footbed is glued inside can't take it out to measure per your suggestion. But I have attached a photo of size label. 

The first size 12us boot was recommended by a snowboard shop, so when I upgraded this season bought a used Ride boa size 12, it was good fit.

Today I went to a local sports shop and the lady measured the foot using the generic scale. She said you don't need size 10us boots, keep your size 12 snowboard boots and just get a wider snowboard. I asked about mondo shoe sizes being different. She didn't know 

I will go to another shop tomorrow and try some boots smaller size boots.

Appreciate the tips


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## Snowdaddy (Feb 2, 2018)

slither2slither said:


> Thank you the other posters didn't write details. I didn't know mondo sizes are different
> 
> My snowboard boots footbed is glued inside can't take it out to measure per your suggestion. But I have attached a photo of size label.
> 
> ...


Looks like your boot is 2 cm too long.


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## NT.Thunder (Jan 4, 2020)

slither2slither said:


> Thank you the other posters didn't write details. I didn't know mondo sizes are different
> 
> My snowboard boots footbed is glued inside can't take it out to measure per your suggestion. But I have attached a photo of size label.
> 
> ...


Sounds legit!😂


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## drblast (Feb 28, 2017)

Check out my sticky thread in the boot forum, matter your feet, take pictures, and Wiredsport will help you out.

Most ski/snowboard shop employees have no idea what they're talking about, or will defer to the customer to appear helpful. I often have to convince shop employees I know what I want in order for them to sell me the right stuff.

There's the rare shop employee who wants to fit people accurately but has been so beaten down by people not understanding that boots pack out and too large is bad that they're just going along with that to make the sale. When I say I ride 50+ days a season, want a performance fit and I understand boots won't be comfortable at first, their eyes light up because finally here is someone they can help. Find that shop.

Finally, like I said before this is just advice. If you take it your boots will be very uncomfortable for the first five days then they'll start to pack out and fit perfectly the more you wear them.

But if you ride 4-5 days a season you're not going to experience that until season 2 unless you heat mold and wear the boots around the house a few days in the summer. But after that you'll get many seasons out of them.

And since finding boards wide enough for a size 12 boot can be a challenge, it's probably worth it. But maybe not, it depends on your goals.


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## unsuspected (Oct 26, 2015)

slither2slither said:


> Thank you the other posters didn't write details. I didn't know mondo sizes are different
> 
> My snowboard boots footbed is glued inside can't take it out to measure per your suggestion. But I have attached a photo of size label.
> 
> ...


I would never go back to that shop ever.
Its easier to measure yourself with the method described here on SBF.


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## robotfood99 (Mar 19, 2016)

When I read 28cm I thought you were in or getting boots in that size... 

I have EEEE & EE wide feet. I also wear my casual shoes 2 sizes bigger unless they come in specific extra wide fits. For snowboard boots I am in true mondo size boots in wide fits if available, regulars if not. Custom insoles, aggressive heat molding, multiple times if needed. These all help tune the fit. Many years ago I used to be one of those that swore I could never fit into my true size. Trust me, it will be a night and day difference. 

Burton and Salomon make wide specific boots. Some Adidas have wide forefoot, even though they aren't labeled wides. Browse the boot threads for deep dives into all sorts of topics boots related.

Best of luck.


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## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

Yea, this is what we do...ask about a new board...we tell you that you need new boots...lol

Ask about your GF...we tell you that she needs a new BF...brahahaa


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## Phedder (Sep 13, 2014)

slither2slither said:


> Today I went to a local sports shop and the lady measured the foot using the generic scale. She said you don't need size 10us boots, keep your size 12 snowboard boots and just get a wider snowboard. I asked about mondo shoe sizes being different. *She didn't know*
> 
> I will go to another shop tomorrow and try some boots smaller size boots.
> 
> Appreciate the tips


Local sport shop, meaning not local snowboard/ski shop? If it's a generic sporting goods store they definitely won't know shit past a brannock. 

You told us 28cm, definitely check that measurement via the threads already recommended. But, even if you are a 28 mondo and truly can't handle a size us10 wide boot, a 10.5 or 11 will still open up a world of new boards to you that a 12 simply rules out.


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## kimchijajonshim (Aug 19, 2007)

drblast said:


> I often have to convince shop employees I know what I want in order for them to sell me the right stuff.


Heh. Been riding 16 years. Most visits to the shop for the past ~14 have gone something like this: 




(And I know *MUCH* more about snowboarding and snowboarding gear than I did 14 years ago.)

I know 4 shop guys who I legitimately trust to recommend me gear... and 2 of those guys work(ed) at the same shop (one transitioned to part time). Most shop kids are either rippers who can ride whatever and don't know how to read a spec sheet. Or helpful beginners who can neither ride nor read a spec sheet but can peddle bullshit to people who don't know the difference. Or flatout burnouts who're just in it for the pro-forms and shop pass. Very rarely do you the get the lifers who are competent riders, are familiar enough with board design to talk shop with snowboard nerds, can explain those complex concepts to laymen, and are personable enough to be decent sales folk. Frankly if you have that skill set, you're probably going to use them getting paid a hell of a lot more than minimum wage slinging boards to flatlander tourists.

Unfortunately with a largely clueless clientele base, the market doesn't especially reward actual expertise.


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## slither2slither (Apr 1, 2021)

Phedder said:


> Local sport shop, meaning not local snowboard/ski shop? If it's a generic sporting goods store they definitely won't know shit past a brannock.
> 
> You told us 28cm, definitely check that measurement via the threads already recommended. But, even if you are a 28 mondo and truly can't handle a size us10 wide boot, a 10.5 or 11 will still open up a world of new boards to you that a 12 simply rules out.


You are spot on. 10us wide won't work.
Today I tried size 10us 28mondo boots both burton and k2 were way too tight from the toes. They didn't have a 10.5 or 11. I'll shop around. If a 10.5 fits snug and my toes aren't curling, I'll take it. Then I don't need to look for size wide snowboards.

Thank you for the input. 🍻


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## Aged_Rider (Feb 23, 2021)

Snowboarding – Page 2 – Skier's Sportshop







skierssportshop.com




Ontario here, Same stats. 10.5 Burton boot. Picked up the 151 Instagator to add to my quiver.


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## ZeMax (Feb 21, 2014)

slither2slither said:


> You are spot on. 10us wide won't work.
> Today I tried size 10us 28mondo boots both burton and k2 were way too tight from the toes. They didn't have a 10.5 or 11. I'll shop around. If a 10.5 fits snug and my toes aren't curling, I'll take it. Then I don't need to look for size wide snowboards.
> 
> Thank you for the input. 🍻


which model of K2s and Burtons did you try ?


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