# hard carving, progressing from intermediate to advanced?



## Donutz (May 12, 2010)

Get someone to follow you and record your run. Or get a monopole and do it yourself. You'll learn a lot from watching what you're actually doing. For instance, I bet you aren't edging nearly as hard as you think you are, and I also suspect you are edging less on toeside than on heelside.

As for weighting, normally on a carve you start out weighted forward but you shift your weight back over the course of the carve. If you're keeping your weighting static, you're probably not as efficient over the whole carve as you'd like to be.


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## Mel M (Feb 2, 2012)

Welcome to the forum!

You're pretty much where I'm at right now. 3rd season in, going just as much, and really focusing on advanced carving.

There's a few threads open that might help you out. Since you asked for a video, here's a good one that was posted in a previous thread.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9n_cwQLpo_c

I have the same problem on the double blacks over here in that my transitions are a bit sloppy at times. Honestly, that's more to do with the fact I just need to grow a pair and be more aggressive transitioning my weight forward at turn initiation. You say you initiate with your back foot. That's a big no-no for carving, unless you mean something else. That's referred as "ruddering". Always transition your weight, like you said, to your front foot to initiate the turn. 

The thing is, I have a forward stance, so I can get away a bit of knee and ankle roll on my leading foot instead of having to jump forward as much as when I went duck. I also found my angulation a bit better when I went forward, but many experienced riders here carve fast duck, so it doesn't really matter as long as you got the technique down.

As far as heel side, I wish I could tell you. I'm still having a hard time locking it down with great consistency. It's not just how hard you lay down on it, it's your weight distribution depending on where you are at the turn. Same thing as in toeside, but I can't seem to get the mechanics down pat for heelside. I was going to start another thread to address this issue, but I'll just follow this one to see what others have to say.


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## speedjason (May 2, 2013)

higher speed and fast turning requires smooth direction change. you cant just stick the board up and expect it bites the snow and turn at high speed. just imagine suddenly turning your steering wheel at high speed, the car will just keep going forward.


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## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

I'd imagine its part board, part weighting or shifting your weight in the carve and technique. A board will only hold so much g...so yes smooth shifting/transitioning and also learning to unweight and pop to the next edge. You also ime...as you advance you learn to keep the nose in the fall line and not so much traversing (releasing the carve earlier and go to the next edge) or more flowing the fall line...except for maybe layout eurocarves...which I don't do.


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## aiidoneus (Apr 7, 2011)

It is very hard to tell without a video. Generally issues with the front or rear of the board is a lack of proper pressure or not properly stacking you body over the board.

The fact that you are initiating a carve with your back leg leads me to believe you are not doing it correctly and may not be carving at all. You generally initiate a carve with the front foot by rolling the knee followed by pressing your shins into the boot and pushing your hips forward. The rear of the board should then follow the front exactly.

On intermediate runs (Blue) are you leaving a nice pencil line all the way through your turn? both heel and toe turns. Or is it wider during the last half?

EDIT: Mel M's video is a decent explanation. However, it doesn't talk about the stacking your weight over the board enough.


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## poutanen (Dec 22, 2011)

Yeah, depending on how fast you're going, the board can become the bottleneck. What weight are you, and what length board are you riding?


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## twowheeled (Jan 1, 2014)

thanks for all the advice, i never thought about videoing myself. The youtube video really helps though.

I used to ride a really torsionally flexible short board so I developed this habit of initiating the turn with the back foot which I think is what I'm doing wrong. With my last board that would twist the whole board and let it bite really well. I'm not ruddering or lifting the back foot at all, but I start the lean with my back leg if that makes any sense. I ride 15 deg and 0 in the rear, and to get on an edge I either push my back shin forward or lean it back into the highback. Most of my weight is over the rear all the time so there is no lifting. It's a clean line throughout and I'm sure I'm carving, but I have to start the carve slow. I can tell by the sound the board is making.

I'm 165lb and I'm riding a 159cm this year.


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## Donutz (May 12, 2010)

You need to take a lesson. Sounds like you have some bad habits there. If you've got the $$ to spare, a private lesson is well worth the bucks. The hard part is leaving your ego at the door and accepting the critique without getting defensive.


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## atr3yu (Feb 15, 2012)

Donutz said:


> You need to take a lesson. Sounds like you have some bad habits there. If you've got the $$ to spare, a private lesson is well worth the bucks. The hard part is leaving your ego at the door and accepting the critique without getting defensive.


I just did a 1hr private today, which turned into 1.5hrs and holy crap I thought I was ok at stacking my weight over my board.... turns out not so much. I am so close to laying down actual carves now and my toe side turns feel so much more powerful and in control. I am 100% for private lessons if $$ will allow it.


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## aiidoneus (Apr 7, 2011)

atr3yu said:


> I just did a 1hr private today, which turned into 1.5hrs and holy crap I thought I was ok at stacking my weight over my board.... turns out not so much. I am so close to laying down actual carves now and my toe side turns feel so much more powerful and in control. I am 100% for private lessons if $$ will allow it.


This! No matter how good you think you are. You can also get great insight from an experienced teacher. When I was working as a beginner instructor I got to do 'session' for free which is essentially lessons twice a week. Made my riding so much better and getting CASI level 2 so much easier too


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## poutanen (Dec 22, 2011)

aiidoneus said:


> This! No matter how good you think you are. You can also get great insight from an experienced teacher. When I was working as a beginner instructor I got to do 'session' for free which is essentially lessons twice a week. Made my riding so much better and getting CASI level 2 so much easier too


It's possible to ride worse than you?!? :yahoo:  Damn sunshine lover...


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## Zedekias (Oct 31, 2013)

How much on average would a 1 hr private lesson be?

Do you go thru the resort? Or a 3rd party?


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## atr3yu (Feb 15, 2012)

Zedekias said:


> How much on average would a 1 hr private lesson be?
> 
> Do you go thru the resort? Or a 3rd party?


I did 1hr through the resort and since I am a seasons pass holder I got 40% off. Usually $88 I think but more hours is cheaper.


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## aiidoneus (Apr 7, 2011)

poutanen said:


> It's possible to ride worse than you?!? :yahoo:  Damn sunshine lover...


Says the guy trying so hard to bomb the blues while I just cruised and kept up. Ice lover!


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## CassMT (Mar 14, 2013)

twowheeled said:


> 1) When I'm locked into my toeside carve, sometimes the edge on the front of my board will "pop" out. Last weekend I lost an edge like this on groomer and crashed doing 70 or 80, it sucked. What can I do to keep my edges locked in? I'm trying to weight my front foot more, I usually initiate my turns with my back foot and most of the time my weight is like 30/70 front/back. I'm not sure if this is right? I'm also trying to make sure the start of the carve is clean and locked in before I really lay into it.
> 
> 2) A similar thing happens with my heel edge, but only on steeps where I am hard on my edge. Perpendicular with the fall line. It will start "walking" out in steps and then slip out completely. I feel my back heel start to "pop pop pop" and the edge grabbing/letting go repeatedly. I can really lay into my heel side a lot harder than my toe side, is this just the limit of traction of the board?


possibility: your toe is hitting the ground and making you loose the edge? do you have some toe overhang? 15/0 seems ok, but if you are going to carve alot of the time you might test increasing both angles up to say 25/15. test a full camber board too and see if you have the same chatter.


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## nillo (Dec 18, 2013)

I agree that it sounds like your weight is to far back. I feel that your weight should be fairly balanced so you can engage the entire edge through the carve. Also, like others have suggested, it is really easy to think you are stacking your weight over your edge when you really aren't. The worst part is you'll never know it unless someone tells you or you see it in video.

How are your edges tuned?


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## twowheeled (Jan 1, 2014)

ok update on this, it's going to sound really stupid but 2 things really helped me put my toe edge in harder.

1) Cranking down my toe strap really tight. I used to do them up just snug, but after I started cranking them down it feels like an entirely different board. I can feel the response in the edge so much better and really force the edge into the snow.

2) Putting my weight forward and starting the carve with my front foot. I had to completely relearn this as my last board was so catchy, I would always keep the weight over the back cause I was constantly scared of catching the front edge. I'm practicing nose presses and nollies a lot to help me get over this bad habit. 

Tightening the bindings made the biggest difference, now I can get edge to edge so quickly on the board that I have to be ready for it or it will get away from me. I'm still getting used to laying down super tight carves back n forth with the board underneath me but I definitely progressed a ton. thanks for the help guys.


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## poutanen (Dec 22, 2011)

aiidoneus said:


> Says the guy trying so hard to bomb the blues while I just cruised and kept up. Ice lover!


That was a warm up run!!! Who here left at noon? Not I!!!


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## jokermtb (Jan 27, 2014)

It may sound too simple, but you should always remind yourself to keep your knees bent - especially at higher speeds. It also helps keep you centered on the board so you're weighting the whole edge, not just the back (like you mentioned), and now you're weighting the front - try to weight the board equally. I see so many people, either who are tired or just feelin' lazy, straight legging it when they're turning/carving. You can always hear them too - chattering and skidding.

Also, once you initiate a carve, try lowering your stance continuously til you hit the apex of your carve, then straighten your legs incrementally to pull out of the carve. This subtle weight shifting (going lower in the beginning, elongating coming out) can really drive your board into a smooth carve. 

It's a lot to think about while doing a carve, but eventually it becomes second nature. And you're right - you have some bad habits to un-do.


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## twowheeled (Jan 1, 2014)

thanks man, I have put on like 20 days or so since and my riding has progressed a lot. I was still smearing some turns before and didn't realize it...sometimes its a fine line. But now I'm more comfortable looking back up the hill at my tracks and I'm able to carve clean lines most of the time. Bending my knees really helped a lot since I was pretty lazy (and out of shape) standing straight up most of the time. 

I'm trying to get my buddy to video me next weekend to see what else I can improve. Also if any of you ride sunshine and want to critque my riding for a run or two shoot me a msg.


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## poutanen (Dec 22, 2011)

:thumbsup: I'm almost never at Sunshine (it's not on my pass), but another trick I do is to ride the first couple laps under the same lift, and when I'm going back up look at my carves. The turn radii should be symmetrical, and you can really see how your transitions are. It's really cool to see a gap where you're not touching the snow at all when transitioning!


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## aiidoneus (Apr 7, 2011)

poutanen said:


> :thumbsup: I'm almost never at Sunshine (it's not on my pass), but another trick I do is to ride the first couple laps under the same lift, and when I'm going back up look at my carves. The turn radii should be symmetrical, and you can really see how your transitions are. It's really cool to see a gap where you're not touching the snow at all when transitioning!


On the topic of more advanced goals is to have the two carves cross each other. To do this you are still on your uphill edge at the rear of the board and the down hill edge at the front. This is where you know you are starting your turn early. 

One way to practice starting carves earlier is while coming across the hill and to hop into your down hill edge. Sounds crazy at first. To work up to it, try and hop into your down hill edge after turning but sooner than you normally would switch edges. Then each time try and hop sooner and sooner in the turn. Eventually you can easily hop into your down hill edge while perpendicular to the fall line and with no turning at all.


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## AAA (Feb 2, 2008)

Two things on steep runs. You need to intiate your downhill edge fast, high, and hard as you come across the fall line. It almost will feel like you're throwing yourself across the board and will splat on your back, downhill. But set the edge hard, at a high board angle. The nose will bite, along with the edge, and scream a tight arc across the fall line. Hold onto it as long as you can (to the point where the board begins to chatter), cross-thru, then snap the next downhill edge. It's amazing how quickly the nose will hook up if you ask it to. If you initiate too late, the board will want to rocket "down" the fall line, to where you loose control.

These carving clips are several years old (on everything from blacks to greens), but should give you the general idea of transitioning early to high edge angles. I had some funky technique issues going on with toeside initiation and coming off a carve too far aft, but you should get the idea at least. :yahoo:


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## twowheeled (Jan 1, 2014)

^ holy crap, thanks for that.. I tried it today really aggressively throwing the board on edge at a high angle, didn't think it would hold but it did and I was definately laying some trenches down. I've never carved that hard before or in such small radius turns.


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