# Bataleon - your opinion on carving performance



## crazyface (Mar 1, 2008)

are you riding east coast?? i was wondering how TBT performs on icy conditions


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## conwayeast (Nov 6, 2008)

In choppy spring condition,mogulness, the TBT acts almost like a spoon and sucks you into them. sometimes you fall sometimes you dont. It is def wierd, and there isnt a whole lot you can do about it either. if that is what you were refferring to anyway. I have a goliath


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## phile00 (Jan 7, 2009)

crazyface said:


> are you riding east coast?? i was wondering how TBT performs on icy conditions


Yup, I'm on the east coast. If you're talking pure ice, I don't think there's a legitimate snowboard in the world that performs even decently on ice. If you mean ice patches in loose/granular condition and whatnot, it seems to cope pretty well. I haven't taken a dive from ice yet, I usually don't though.


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## phile00 (Jan 7, 2009)

conwayeast said:


> In choppy spring condition,mogulness, the TBT acts almost like a spoon and sucks you into them. sometimes you fall sometimes you dont. It is def wierd, and there isnt a whole lot you can do about it either. if that is what you were refferring to anyway. I have a goliath


Yes, that's pretty much exactly what I was talking about. I encountered some of that a couple weekends ago during night riding. I didn't fall or anything, but it was really sketchy. I was also really booking it down the mountain too though.

Anyway, besides that, I really don't understand the people who say TBT is harder to turn with. I'm not denying it's possible, but it doesn't seem to register with me for whatever reason.


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## mikez (May 12, 2009)

It definitely felt different at first and I remember being a little put off by it, but I'm used to it now. I picked up a 2009 Riot 159 btw. No problems at all now (though I haven't hit any sheet ice yet). I know what you mean about the "spoon" thing - whereas an edge on any other board might cut into, scrape or clip a bump or mogul, TBT seems to want to ride each one like a wave. Ultimately, I think this is a good thing; my riding certainly feels (has become?) more dynamic because of it.


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## burritosandsnow (Nov 22, 2008)

as more companies develop their own brand of alternate camber its going to be harder and harder to get good solid reviews on boards. every alt camber board feels weird the first time you ride it and since many times testers (reviewers)will spend less than half a day on one a fair assessment may not be made ... more and more actual riders who have spent more time on a board will have the insightful opinions you want when getting a board review


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## phile00 (Jan 7, 2009)

burritosandsnow said:


> as more companies develop their own brand of alternate camber its going to be harder and harder to get good solid reviews on boards. every alt camber board feels weird the first time you ride it and since many times testers (reviewers)will spend less than half a day on one a fair assessment may not be made ... more and more actual riders who have spent more time on a board will have the insightful opinions you want when getting a board review


I was there was a scientific way to test boards, kind of like how they do car tests - Handling, slalom, 0-60, 1/4 mile, track time, ride comfort, etc.  It's all down to rider ability of course, but if we could remove that from the equation a little bit just to see how boards stack up, it would be pretty interesting. Seriously, if someone did that it would take reviews to the next level. I wouldn't mind devising a scheme myself.


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## Triple8Sol (Nov 24, 2008)

Harder to turn? I think not. Turn initiation is different than on a typical board so you just have to get used to it, like on any new board. Burrito is right...most so-called reviews are by people who only did a few runs on a board, or even one day, which really isn't enough to get an accurate feel for a board. Also keep in mind what kind of experience they have with other boards, since most have only ridden a handful, whereas others have tried dozens and various technologies.


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## phile00 (Jan 7, 2009)

Triple8Sol said:


> Harder to turn? I think not. Turn initiation is different than on a typical board so you just have to get used to it, like on any new board. Burrito is right...most so-called reviews are by people who only did a few runs on a board, or even one day, which really isn't enough to get an accurate feel for a board. Also keep in mind what kind of experience they have with other boards, since most have only ridden a handful, whereas others have tried dozens and various technologies.


I never thought that they just took it for a run or two, good point. But even in my meager experience, I've only owned 4 boards, and tired maybe an additional 3. But the instant I got on my Goliath, I found it easy to ride. I guess that's why I find it odd that some people find it harder to turn with. And I'm by no means a super rider or anything.


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## Triple8Sol (Nov 24, 2008)

Also, I'm curious where you're reading/hearing about this claim anyways? I haven't heard it from all the people I know that ride tbt, or in any reviews I've seen on here.


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## phile00 (Jan 7, 2009)

Triple8Sol said:


> Also, I'm curious where you're reading/hearing about this claim anyways? I haven't heard it from all the people I know that ride tbt, or in any reviews I've seen on here.


I've seen it crop up a few times, I'll do some searching. One thread of the top of my head for sure was a dude who posted a recent thread about some boards he demoed. He mentioned how he thought Bataleon boards were harder to turn with because of TBT. I did a search and I failed, but I saw the thread like 4 days ago. That thread was the impetus for this thread, but as I said, I've heard it a few other places as well. If I find some more examples, I'll post them here.


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## Guest (Jan 16, 2010)

For what it's worth here's a Bataleon Omni review: YouTube - 2010 Bateleon Omni Snowboard Review Board Insiders TBT snowboards

The only guy who seemed to like it was the hardcore freerider. It seemed like nobody else had time to get used to the board. And one of the guys did say he thought the TBT made it harder to get out of a turn.


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## phile00 (Jan 7, 2009)

Mammoth53 said:


> For what it's worth here's a Bataleon Omni review: YouTube - 2010 Bateleon Omni Snowboard Review Board Insiders TBT snowboards
> 
> The only guy who seemed to like it was the hardcore freerider. It seemed like nobody else had time to get used to the board. And one of the guys did say he thought the TBT made it harder to get out of a turn.


Interesting. Everyone seemed kind of ambivalent... As I said before, it's easy enough for me to ride, and I'm a light weight rider. You'd think I'd have the biggest problem getting an edge. Given, I've only ever ridden the Goliath so I can't comment on other Bataleon boards, but I just don't feel like it's harder to exit turns.


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## extra0 (Jan 16, 2010)

hi, new here. 

Doesn't ability to turn have to factor in different kinds of sidecuts, too?...I don't think it has anything to do with TBT. I remember having a Salomon with a quadratic sidecut and it turned too easy...seemed like it kept trying to turn by itself. I hated it. I've been riding Bataleon since the beginning of last season (26 days on them so far) and they turn just the same as any good sidecut on a standard flat board. 

In moguls, TBT is actually superior to flat camber...you can actually flow and bounce through them like a skier, without having to worry about catching an edge. If you're falling in moguls with TBT, you just can't turn very well on any board, yet.

In chop, my Undisputed is pretty damp, shock absorbing, but it's made for gnarly conditions like that.

On ice, TBT is also slightly better than standard camber. However, despite the hype, MTX is probably the way to go if ice is all you got.

Like the op said, no one board or tech is going to excel in all conditions. For instance: because of it's slightly raised contact points, TBT is not going to do as well at flatground tricks (tricks in which you want to catch your edge)...I'm not particularly interested in flatgound, so I can live without that.


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## phile00 (Jan 7, 2009)

extra0 said:


> hi, new here.
> 
> Doesn't ability to turn have to factor in different kinds of sidecuts, too?...I don't think it has anything to do with TBT. I remember having a Salomon with a quadratic sidecut and it turned too easy...seemed like it kept trying to turn by itself. I hated it. I've been riding Bataleon since the beginning of last season (26 days on them so far) and they turn just the same as any good sidecut on a standard flat board.
> 
> ...


Good input. I haven't actually hit moguls with my Goilath yet. With regular snowboards, I avoid moguls like the plague.  

Personally, when it comes to carving, I don't fall. I fall when I'm trying to do tricks  I get easily disoriented when I get off my feet. Anyhow, I hit a run a couple weeks ago that was a diamond and it was in the evening. It had this like mogul-like chop. There were no actual moguls on the hill though, just naturally made piles of snow randomly distributed across the hill and uber chop. Anyway, I was bombing the hill pretty fast and it felt a little sketchy with the Goliath. Granted, maybe it would have felt sketchy with any board. I only ride a 149, so maybe that was it. It made me want to slow myself way down a couple of times, which it didn't end up doing


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## extra0 (Jan 16, 2010)

I just watched the link above (and several others from the same group) and it just goes to show how subjective board reviews are. The one guy just gave the omni a "shred cred" of 80 because it seems he didn't even want to expend the mental energy to come up with a real score (or he was just having a bad day). If it weren't for him, the score would've been in the 90s...just like every other board/tech. The funkink was way up there with a 96, so go figure.


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## phile00 (Jan 7, 2009)

extra0 said:


> I just watched the link above (and several others from the same group) and it just goes to show how subjective board reviews are. The one guy just gave the omni a "shred cred" of 80 because it seems he didn't even want to expend the mental energy to come up with a real score (or he was just having a bad day). If it weren't for him, the score would've been in the 90s...just like every other board/tech. The funkink was way up there with a 96, so go figure.


Yeah that bothered me as well. I'd love board reviews to be similar to car performance reviews. Then add in the subjectivity later. I think it can be done within a certain degree of reason. It can get really complicated though because each rider is so different. If you got a group of pro level riders, with vary skills and sizes/weights, then you could test a good range of boards. 

One of the things I've never really seen addressed in depth is how board lengths for one particular rider could change how the board rides. For example take a rider like myself that weighs 130 lbs., and lets pick a park board like the GNU Park Pickle. Well, most would suggest something in the 147cm range. But what if I chose a 159cm board? It has a slightly higher flex rating and it's longer... might it act more like an "all mountain" board, despite it's built for the park, due to the size in proportion to my weight? Maybe the park pickle is a bad example, but it seems like the concept I'm discussing at least makes sense. There's a ton of variability.


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## Guest (Apr 14, 2010)

I've demoed two Bataleons and loved them both. 85% of my riding is bombing groomers. Fast is fun for me. The 157 that I demoed did feel sketchy in the spring chop, but the 161 I rode felt much better. Will a slightly stiffer board like the JAM power thru chop better than say a softer Goliath if both are the same size?


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## extra0 (Jan 16, 2010)

probably. 

Based on all the boards I've ridden and my current bataleons, the Undisputed handles chop the best. Could be the super set-back, FR TBT, extra scooped nose, the dampening overbuild, or all the above, but that board is actually fun in chop.


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## Guest (Apr 14, 2010)

Do you have a JAM?


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## extra0 (Jan 16, 2010)

guess I should have mentioned my other board is a little riot which is basically a stiff park board/twin. I do ride it all mountain, but mostly groomers. If the trees and chop are ice, I'm avoiding that and hop on my riot.


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