# Big Air Landings: How would you Equate the forces,..



## Donutz (May 12, 2010)

IF you get your distances right and land IN the landing zone, the touchdown is like jumping down to the landing in your house from 2-3 stairs up. Depending how the jump is set up, it can be as smooth as an airplane coming in for a landing.

On the other hand, if you knuckle or clear the landing zone, it can feel like anything from jumping down the _entire_ flight of stairs to dropping off the roof. I've knuckled some 20ft jumps and it rattles your teeth. I saw a guy knuckle a 30' step-down and he had to lie there a while before he could get up.

Us old guys have to be very deliberate about planning these things out. This season I'm going to use the roller beside the Northlands jump to establish proper approach speed before I actually start hitting the jump.


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## ColoRADical (Dec 1, 2011)

Most of the time you're landing on an angle while moving forward. This helps a lot in dispersing the force and making the landings softer. The angle allows you to convert some of the force from landing into more speed. You would have to be really lucky to drop 50' with no forward momentum and come away unharmed. 

If you actually fell from 40 feet it would look like this:


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## slyder (Jan 18, 2010)

Last season was my 1st real air experience and it started late in the season. 

As Donutz said when you do it right it is nice and smooth. I have hit harder off a rail landing then a good jump landing.


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## Donutz (May 12, 2010)

ColoRADical said:


> If you actually fell from 40 feet it would look like this:


Don't watch that. You really don't want to watch that.

These aren't the droids you're looking for. Move along.


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## slyder (Jan 18, 2010)

watch good landings and study the guys making jumps again Donutz points you in the right direction don't study the failures.


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## ShredLife (Feb 6, 2010)

DO watch the failures. you will learn way more than watching people stick it over and over again. just don't visualize the failures when you go to actually attempt it. 

the bottom line is: *keep momentum*. good jumps have a long and usually steep landing. long so you can't overshoot it, steep so you keep your momentum. 

lots of times even if you fall on a big jump, as long as its in the landing its not the end of the world. sure sometimes you instantly catch an edge at speed and slam your head or something hard into the snow, but alot of the time you just skid along on your back like a turtle and you'll be fine, hell even some tumbling ass over teakettle is ok - as long as you kept your downhill momentum. 

by far the worst crashes are when things stop very quickly. 

as far as landing big kickers goes, as long as you land smoothly and ride away (with speed) it just feels like you landed smoothly and rode away. its just like landing gear touching down. if it was a flatter landing and you stuck it you will have felt like you just absorbed the impact with your knees, quads, lower back, core and kinda muscled out the impact.


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## chomps1211 (Mar 30, 2011)

ha! Thanks Guy's! I appreciate the 1st hand feedback on this! 



Donutz said:


> Don't watch that. You really don't want to watch that.
> 
> These aren't the droids you're looking for. Move along.


No worries Donutz!! I personally am *far* from ready to attempt anything like even the smaller jumps! As I said,.. I was simply curious because I really had no idea what I should expect from landing one if I ever did give it a try!! No real point of reference!



slyder said:


> watch good landings and study the guys making jumps again Donutz points you in the right direction don't study the failures.





ShredLife said:


> DO watch the failures. you will learn way more than watching people stick it over and over again. just don't visualize the failures when you go to actually attempt it.
> 
> the bottom line is: *keep momentum*. good jumps have a long and usually steep landing. long so you can't overshoot it, steep so you keep your momentum.
> 
> ...


Slyder, Shred, thanks! I see the wisdom in both points of view!!
Of course I understood, intellectually anyways, the basic physics that forward momentum and downward landing trajectory would work on dispersing the forces of impact, but as I'm sure you would be the first to tell me,.. understanding it and _experiencing_ it are obviously two completely different animals!!!

It still looks a little freaky and scary to me at this stage of my riding, but it's comforting to hear that when done correctly,.. (...after proper prep and a certain level of progression & mastery of the requisite skills!) I won't have to be able to withstand jumping off a 2 story building or anything to survive it!    (...of course "_That_" probably wouldn't be bad if I could!!)


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## slyder (Jan 18, 2010)

When I landed my 1st park jump small by most standards 15-20 footer HUGE to me. Someone called it "air awareness" *seeing * what is going on while you are in the air.

My first jump was a blur, literally. I had my eyes open was concentrating. I remember popping of the lip nicely next thing I know I'm riding smoothly down the landing ramp and I don't recall seeing or experiencing a thing till I was nearly off the landing ramp. It is a weird feeling your first real jump, at least it was for me. As the day continued and I hit the jump line more and more I was "seeing" what was happening around me.

This actually scared me more than the landing, which was very clean for my 1st one. Just some more thoughts for ya


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## ig88 (Jan 3, 2012)

This is a great thread.

First of all I have never made any jumps but I am looking forward to it one day.

But before you guys make your jumps, are you ever concerned that people before you might have got stuck (crashed or whatever other reasons) near your landing spot?

Unless we are talking about some 2 feet jumps, I guess it's not until you are in midair then you see if your tentative landing spot is clear or not. Right?


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## Tarzanman (Dec 20, 2008)

ig88 said:


> This is a great thread.
> 
> First of all I have never made any jumps but I am looking forward to it one day.
> 
> But before you guys make your jumps, are you ever concerned that people before you might have got stuck (crashed or whatever other reasons) near your landing spot?


Moderately. I personally always wait to see that the landing is clear, but skate park rules apply (your job to get yourself out of the way if the guy behind you can't see you). 

Some people play it safe in the park and check to see that the person who went before them is still on their feet (and leaving the landing zone). 

Other folks just wait a few seconds after the person before *should* have been able to land and clear the area, just presuming that the area is clear enough.

Unless it is a fairly big jump, you can usually see if someone has gotten held up because they fell or something.



> Unless we are talking about some 2 feet jumps, I guess it's not until you are in midair then you see if your tentative landing spot is clear or not. Right?


Mmm, that's a bad time to figure out that you're going to have a rough landing.


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## SnowMotion (Oct 8, 2010)

Awesome question and some great answers (accept the video that made me limp)!

Recap, forward momentum and transitions are everything. Thats why when we knuckle it doesn't look as bad as that vid we take a little bounce suck it up in a low stance and ride away.

I over jumped a big hip like that 2 seasons ago. Shattered my front foot heel in 6 pieces. My forward momentum died out around 25'. But Flat landings like this are few and far between most of them are knuckling (not so bad) and over jumping (the worst).

I find myself taking more flat impacts by screwing up on tall boxes and rails and dropping 5'-8' to the deck.

To leave it off you truly don't and shouldn't worry about it till you get there. Just think about that next jump in head of you.GL


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## mrjimyjohn (Dec 18, 2010)

I think your question's already been answered, but I'll just say it again. As long as you take off from the lip with the right amount of speed and momentum, the actual landing will not hurt at all. In fact on a perfectly built booter, landing in the "sweet spot" can feel incredibly smooth.

Obviously you'll have to build up the confidence and control in the air to hit bigger jumps, but once you get the hang of it you'll realize how fun jumping can be. :thumbup:


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## beall (Sep 9, 2011)

Take a park lesson or have your friends to show you the basics of terrain parks. It will give you more confident then just hit the park first time as you might get hurt if you don't know what you are doing. The instruction will teach you the basics and it sure gives you more confident of hitting the smaller jumps and foot control.


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## timmytard (Mar 19, 2009)

chomps1211 said:


> I've been checking out a lot of the Shred Vid's lately,.. (torturing myself in anticipation of SNOW!!) and as a NooB who has yet to "Get Any" big air. How would you guy's (...and/or Gal's) describe the forces involved in sticking those kinds of landings?? The riders in the vid's make it look easy & painless. (...not withstanding the occasional spectacular rag doll wipe-outs!)
> 
> I see all these boarders sailing thru the air,.. 30-40-60+ feet & more (...some of those Cliff Drops are straight up, freakin' INSANE!!) and I can't help wondering "_exactly how hard are those landings??_" What do you folks who have actually _made_ those kinds of jumps, what would you equate those forces to? Jumping off the living room couch?? ...a 3-4 ft. step stool?? ...The roof?? What?
> 
> ...



I will say though, every snowboarder you see taking huge jumps like that, his legs are 2wice as strong as yours. 

You don't really notice to what degree your legs are strengthening, because it happens so gradually, you still get tired @ the same rate.
You probably have to have @ least 40-50 days riding to get close to that strength. 

Then one day you'll go off something bigger than normal, your stomach drops & your brain tells you this is gonna suck. 
Then you stomp it, your legs don't even buckle one bit. This happens by accident for most people I believe, biting off more than you can chew.

Then there is the boot factor.
I have a bum ankle, so I have been buying pretty much the stiffest boots on the market for the last 20 years.

Your Quadriceps are by far the strongest muscle on your body(jaw doesn't count). Your ankles aren't even close, but stiff boots brings them up to a level close to the strength of your quads. Probably more.

Bare feet & you jump off your roof, yep your right you'll be in traction.

Super stiff boots on, your ankles would be fine. 
You'd still eat shit though, cause your quads aren't strong enough.

Get 50 days riding in, slap on your super stiff booties, you will stomp that shit. 
Your neighbors will think your a fuckin' super hero, I know mine do.:cheeky4:

TT


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## Skinny Bam (Sep 7, 2012)

A little too much speed > Not enough speed. When I first started hitting 50+ footers in Tahoe I pussed out the first 2 times or so and landed on the knuckle every time which definitely did some damage to the legs. 

The first time I cleared the knuckle I hit it with a little too much speed which launched me like crazy and also threw my weight back way too much. Those couple seconds in the air I thought I was gonna break my back for sure but when I came down on my back I just slid down the landing smooth as shit no pain at all. This was honestly better than me landing it because it made me get over the natural thought of "if I eat shit on this big ass thing Im screwed".

And remember the first couple times you hit 50+ footers your going to need a little more speed that you would normally think because you lose a decent amount of speed going up the larger lips that are necessary for these size jumps. I think thats why I shorted it the first couple times I tried. :thumbsup:


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## ig88 (Jan 3, 2012)

Thanks Tarzanman for your thoughts and great info.


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## chomps1211 (Mar 30, 2011)

Skinny Bam said:


> ...The first time I cleared the knuckle I hit it with a little too much speed which launched me like crazy and also threw my weight back way too much. Those couple seconds in the air I thought I was gonna break my back for sure but when I came down on my back I just slid down the landing smooth as shit no pain at all. This was honestly better than me landing it because it made me get over the natural thought of "if I eat shit on this big ass thing Im screwed".


I can definitely see how experiencing a flubbed landing like that,.. the way you did could be really helpful in getting past the fear and mental blocks.

I imagine Once you _*"Know"*_, 1st hand that failure doesn't _necessarily_ = death & destruction, it must have been much easier to approach attempting additional jumps without that "Panicked Anticipation" & fear getting in the way to "Muck Up" proper technique. (...not that I'm anxious to give the same thing a try!!)  




Skinny Bam said:


> ...And remember the first couple times you hit 50+ footers your going to need a little more speed that you would normally think because you lose a decent amount of speed going up the larger lips...


Oh My,.. I thank you for your supreme optimism on my behalf!  :laugh: (...I _will_ store that away for future reference tho!)
I'll consider myself a _HUGE_ success if I finish the season consistently sticking 5 footers!!  :thumbsup:


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## Dysantic (Oct 11, 2012)

Very good question and very good responses by all so far. Not much more I can add since I'm not hitting 50 footers at this point. Biggest I've ever hit would probably have been a 20 footer at most and when I was learning I ended up breaking my collarbone hitting a 10 footer. So from my experience, make sure your landing zone is free of huge potholes and moster dips in the middle of it. I hit the 10' kicker, landed it and then my nose went into a pothole of some sort and I flew forward and landed on my front shoulder breaking my clavicle. 

So best thing I can recommend is to inspect every jump your going to hit through and through before you hit it rather than just assuming its in good shape and has been maintained.


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## david_z (Dec 14, 2009)

Chomps if you make it out to Alpine Valley at all this season their beginner park area usually has a super friendly jump, from the lodge looking up the hill it would basically be immediately in front of you. I would say it's normally about a 10ft table top style jump, if you hit it right you might get 5-6ft of air over the table and it's usually a pretty mellow landing. Although it is relatively "small" it is pretty much a perfect jump most of the time in terms of shape, and because it is small & friendly, it's great to practice on. Only downside is it's right in front of the lodge/bar so everyone can see you bail


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## sheepstealer (Aug 19, 2009)

I think there's two takeaways here, maybe three.

1. Baby steps. Don't start the season out charging the 40 or 50 footers. Start out easy. I am physically able to hit the bigger tables and booters, but I NEVER start out my season or even the day hitting these without first warming up and bypassing the jump to check out the takeoff and landing. I find that getting close and looking at it helps me consciously gauge my approach when I do decide to take it on.

2. Speed. For the bigger jumps, speed if your friend. It's the only way you're gonna clear the knuckle. If you don't clear the knuckle, *you're gonna have a bad time*. Ha. 

But seriously, I think this is overlooked by guys/gals new to hitting bigger features - they try to approach the jump with a minimal amount of speed, just what they think is "enough" to carry them over without getting too "huge." Sometimes this works, but 9 times out of 10 these folks will case the jump and then you're entering a world of pain, shattered ankles and compressed spines.


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## Dysantic (Oct 11, 2012)

sheepstealer said:


> I think there's two takeaways here, maybe three.
> 
> 1. Baby steps. Don't start the season out charging the 40 or 50 footers. Start out easy. I am physically able to hit the bigger tables and booters, but I NEVER start out my season or even the day hitting these without first warming up and bypassing the jump to check out the takeoff and landing. I find that getting close and looking at it helps me consciously gauge my approach when I do decide to take it on.
> 
> ...












Sorry, I just had to. I found that a while ago and thought it was hilarious.


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## Sincraft (Sep 6, 2010)

ColoRADical said:


> Most of the time you're landing on an angle while moving forward. This helps a lot in dispersing the force and making the landings softer. The angle allows you to convert some of the force from landing into more speed. You would have to be really lucky to drop 50' with no forward momentum and come away unharmed.
> 
> If you actually fell from 40 feet it would look like this:


I did this on skis, landed on ice below. BIG jump when jumps were not common, our little one slope 'resort' piled snow very very high for us to carve into and jump, landing on the side.

Well I went in, assuming it was the same as the day before, and cleared the jump. 

That was when I was 16. For several years I was ok except that first year, then afterwards, if I sat too long I would 'lock'. When I was 21, I spent the entire xmas break sitting against a chair. I slept there too.

20 years later, my back is hell. If I am too rigid, and hit even the smallest bump, my back is in severe pain. I have to remain bouncey, very very bouncey.


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## Dysantic (Oct 11, 2012)

^^ Might be a good idea to get that checked out. lol. Sounds like a compressed disc in your back which will only get worse as time goes on...


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## hot-ice (Nov 6, 2011)

Alsohen your learning to go over jumps you will find yourself wanting to lean back after you get in the air. Just remember before hitting your jumps to lean forward in the air to transfer to the landing. I didn't do that one time when I was learning last year and I won't forget it. I leaned back over a jump and hit an icy patch just below the knuckle. Needless to say it felt like my tailbone was touching my belly bottom for a week.


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## P-Ride (Jan 29, 2012)

Fascinating article - and just what I was looking for.

Other sports like MMA (mixed martial arts) seem to have much objective, scientific information available. Snowboarding - rightly - is seen as more of an 'art' than a sport', but is still subject to the same laws of physics - and in the case of big jumps, they're pretty damn important!

With all the awesome videos like Art of Flight out there generating interest and inspiring people to board, it seems pretty important to have high-quality information out there making the importance of landing zones; and technique clear.

I've been working on my jumps at our indoor real-snow dome in the UK to prepare for the coming season. Fortunately I've had some helpful people give me tips, but I started by going 'slow and careful' and ended up popping up and landing flat (movement mainly vertical) which resulted in hurting my back!

Now I'm understanding the importance of speed and horizontal movement. This seems counter-intuitive, but when I do it, things just work!


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