# 10k vs Shell or insulated shell



## Brycerice (Oct 9, 2019)

I had a Neff 10k jacket that I loved and I lost it, looking at buying a Volcom L Gortex jacket. My question is would the regular shell or would the insulated version be closer to a 10k jacket?


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## drblast (Feb 28, 2017)

10k is the waterproofing value and has nothing to do with warmth.

The non-insulated version will likely be like a rain jacket where the goal is just to keep water off of you, the insulated version like a thin winter jacket that keeps you warm around freezing temps if you're moving and active.

The most versatile option is the non-insulated shell with a down vest or sweater underneath so you can layer as appropriate.


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## Brycerice (Oct 9, 2019)

I guess it’s worth mentioning that I live in Texas and don’t have to deal with single digit temperatures. So layering for me is usually just a T-shirt under my jacket, that being said would the non insulated version still be that much different that the insulated one?


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## Craig64 (Jul 16, 2015)

Brycerice said:


> I guess it’s worth mentioning that I live in Texas and don’t have to deal with single digit temperatures. So layering for me is usually just a T-shirt under my jacket, that being said would the non insulated version still be that much different that the insulated one?


DrBlast explained this above. 

A 2L Goretex shell system is the outer layer fabric embedded together with the Goretex membrane. In order to protect the Goretex membrane (which is fragile to breakdown from wear whilst being worn) there will be an inside lining within the jacket. This lining can be either be entirely or partly a combination of various fabrics ie mesh/micro fleece/nylon/taffeta like materials. A positive here is this Goretex protective lining will also assist in creating a thin insulative layer for warmth inside jacket. 

A 3L Goretex jacket/pants system will have the outer fabric, the Goretex membrane and the inner protective layer all melded together as one. A 3L system therefore does not have that seperate liner of a 2L system as it's all contained in the one melded fabric. A 3L system therefore feels a lot lighter in weight as an active wear barrier to the elements. The slight problem here is 3L outerwear is generally a lot more expensive than 2L $$$$.

So an insulated jacket will have an insulative fibre fill between the dryride/2L/3L outer fabric membrane system and your body. Outerwear insulation is generally spoken in terms of grams per metre squared. So a 60gram insulated jacket would mean the insulation weight of this jacket is 60grms per 1m2. The higher the insulation, the warmer the jacket will be. It is therefore really important here that heavier insulated items be vented to give the user the ability to control the traped heat your body will produce while riding or skiing etc. 

Insulated outer wear will generally be wholely or partly insulated with this layer. So a jacket could be just 60 grams in body and shell in hood and arms like a Burton Swash. A Burton Helitack on the other hand is 120grms in body and 100 grms in arms and hood ie suited to pretty cold conditions ie sub -10C.

Whilst riding you'll be traveling at varying velocities. This speed along with the combined wind creates a term known as windchill. The faster the speed or stronger the wind the greater the effect windchill has on you. Example....., so if it's -10C outside and the wind plus my riding speed adds up to a combined rate of 60kmh, the windchill temperature will be -22.6C. At -15C at the same wind plus riding speed it's now -29.5C. So at these temps insulation of some degree is pretty important. 

So you can do this in either layering up or with the insulation in jacket itself. With a shell you have the ability to control this by say, starting with a base layer (100, 200 or 300) then adding a tech layer into the equations ie micro fleece hoodie to create more insulation on your body. However, the more layers you add on, the more movement restrictive the garment can feel whilst riding. This can be and is a personal thing as well. Me, I'm not a big fan of layering up a shell, so I have a variety of different jackets/pants with varying levels from shell up to highly insulated. The big plus here is this feels soooo much better for riding. The negative unfortunately is it's far far more expensive than insulating up a shell.

Insulation itself can be made up from either natural or synthetic materials. Primaloft is a registered brand (just like Goretex is) that started manufacturing synthetic insulated outerwear for the US military. It's now pretty big in the ski and snowboard world. They use terms like black, silver or gold Primaloft insulation which has a lot to do with how good the performance and environmental manufactured nature of the insulation is. Natural or synthetic Downs are also used in extreme cold weather jackets/pants for added performance as well.

So this is just a brief summary of this issue. I used metric terms as I'm an Australian. 

In layman's terms then, insulated outerwear is far more suited for very cold temperatures while a shell is more suited to riding around temperatures close to +/- 0C. Your bodys own ability to feel and control the outside temperature you're in will play an important issue in this as well.


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## drblast (Feb 28, 2017)

Brycerice said:


> I guess it’s worth mentioning that I live in Texas and don’t have to deal with single digit temperatures. So layering for me is usually just a T-shirt under my jacket, that being said would the non insulated version still be that much different that the insulated one?


The insulated one will be warmer with no option to remove the insulation that makes it warm. If you ever need to be waterproof and comfortable while riding in 60-70F temps in the spring then you're going to want just a shell. You can always add layers underneath if it's not warm enough in the winter or if you travel somewhere cold. Patagonia and North Face (among others) make some excellent breathable insulated vests/jackets for those situations that are still very thin.

If you've never been too hot while riding then the insulated one should be fine.


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## smellysell (Oct 29, 2018)

I'll never buy an insulated jacket again. At least not for riding. 

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


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## mojo maestro (Jan 6, 2009)

I don't have any non-insulated jackets......specifically for riding.......


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## Craig64 (Jul 16, 2015)

smellysell said:


> I'll never buy an insulated jacket again. At least not for riding.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


You just haven't been tested in the extremes hard enough yet.


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## smellysell (Oct 29, 2018)

Craig51 said:


> You just haven't been tested in the extremes hard enough yet.


I feel like the -30 (Fahrenheit) I rode in last year was pretty extreme! 

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## smellysell (Oct 29, 2018)

mojo maestro said:


> I don't have any non-insulated jackets......specifically for riding.......


I get too hot really easy I guess? 

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## Craig64 (Jul 16, 2015)

smellysell said:


> Craig51 said:
> 
> 
> > You just haven't been tested in the extremes hard enough yet.
> ...


We'll you'll be fine in a shell then?


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## dannyboy617 (Nov 10, 2017)

Shell all the way. 

Layering keeps you warm, shell keeps you dry.

Can't take insulation out of a jacket when you are sweating, but you can take off layers.


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## LALUNE (Feb 23, 2017)

Shell and a good layering system.


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## BoardieK (Dec 21, 2015)

And do what with those excess layers? Put them in a sweaty-back inducing rucksack?


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## dannyboy617 (Nov 10, 2017)

leave them in the lodge, put them in your car, tie around your waist

get creative with it


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## Craig64 (Jul 16, 2015)

dannyboy617 said:


> Shell all the way.
> 
> Layering keeps you warm, shell keeps you dry.
> 
> Can't take insulation out of a jacket when you are sweating, but you can take off layers.


 So this is and will be the standard feedback you will get from shell affianardo's. "I only use a Shell plus layering up to handle the colder temperatures". So what does layering up achieve......, simply, it just adds insulation to the existing outer shell. All these claims of getting way too hot in an insulated jacket fail to note that in the event you do get too toasty...., you simply, just vent out. Take it from me..., you'll cool down pretty damn fast with -20 and below streaming through your core.

Again, like I mentioned before, insulated outerwear comes in varying weights. A single shell jacket/pants combination is the equivalent to a one board quiver. If you have the $$$$ and passion then you'll most definitely have a quiver of rides to choose for varying conditions. In outerwear, it's no different. An insulated jacket, appropriate to the conditions, will be more comfortable and far superior than the multi layering up of a shell.


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