# Boot problem solved? Creating new ones?



## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

Have a pair of Deeluxe Spark XV boots on my feet... and they fit. Which on one side, make me feel like yelling “heureka, _that’s what I always was talking about!_", there are _worlds_ in terms of flex between them and the "stiffest" women's boots... but it also makes me suspicious if I’m missing something...

In the last 10y, I had Burton Emerald, K2 Contour and now Ride Cadence - the stiffest women's boots of each brand. But I always had the impression that they are fairly soft. In all the local shops the same info: “That's the stiffest women's boot we have” – “I have that one, it's not stiff at all. Are there others “ – “Yes, get hardboots” – “:eyetwitch2: Common, there must be something between these stiffest (but softish) women’s softboots and hardboots!?” – “Nope” - "men's boots?" - "they wouldn't fit, too wide and pinch your calves". 

Recently concentrated more on BC riding, a new issue occurred: the soles of “normal” softboots are too soft to make steps in crusted snow when booting in BC and are pretty slippery on hardpack. Inspired by Ridinbend mentioning the Fitwell Backcountry boot (which unluckily isn’t produced in my size) I began to search for a BC suitable softboot for women. Fail. But I found the Deeluxe Spark XV, which are produced in small sizes. Intrigued by them, I asked the local shop specialized on split gear about them but they said that they scratched them from the assortment cos ppl didn't like them, too bulky to fit into the same binding size one has with "normal" boots...

I found a last year’s model online and ordered them – more out of pure curiosity. Well, they fit into all my bindings, they aren’t too wide, fit my feet well, no heel lift even when only tightened pretty loose, have the solid soles for hitting steps in crusts. They feel stiff even when only tightened pretty loose, they also don't pinch my calves wearing them now at home - their boot legs have the same height as my Ride Cadence’s. The other men's boots I've tried in shops did bite immediately when leaning backwards. *Is that good enough? Will they also not pinch when riding or hiking? How can I test that?*.

Going from a stiff women's boot (which IMO equals to mid-soft) to this stiff Deeluxe seems quite a step... *should I start a new Odyssey trying to find a mid-stiff men’s boots in my size hoping that small ones won't calve-bite?* but I'd need to order them online cos local shops don't supply my size... but actually I like them Deeluxe boots due to the solid sole suitable for BC, which would be an issue with "normal" men's boots again... and then the big general question picking my mind... if such boots don't exist for women, there might be a reason for that...? but there are also no split bindings made for women, only 2 such BC boots seem to exist for men, so it might be just too new, a number/marked thing..?

:tempted::facepalm3::jumping1::embarrased1: :crazy2:

Am I opening a new Pandora’s box? _Any_ hint is highly appreciated. Any of you know of women’s using these Deeluxe boots? Other thoughts?

Edit: just called Deeluxe for info on the liners and they mentioned btw that the boot is not a men's boot, it's "unisex". hmmm... maybe that's why they don't pinch...

Edit: happy ending @ post 36. Went with the '15 Spark XV size 25.


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## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

uhmmm...why not switch to an at hardboot set up? I've toyed with the idea...but not that far in deep into bc...but if progress to that point... it seems to be the setup.


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## ridinbend (Aug 2, 2012)

If your gonna pursue a stiff men's boot, try the burton driver x. I have tried those deeluxe boots and they're not small, or light, IMO. I have spent the last two seasons of Salomon Malamutes, which I love and I have sensitive feet. I honestly could never wear a hard boot. But that's just me. The Driver X felt super light and super stiff, and were comfortable to me. If your gonna spend the money, yet what you want. I will always be a soft boot splitboarder. 

I have a buddy that bought the TRice DC double boa, and he retightens on every run. I don't think I want to pay the money and not have the boa stay, that would suck.


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## radiomuse210 (Sep 5, 2014)

You seem to ride boards larger than what would be suggested for your size (from what I gather reading your posts) so it would make sense to ride a stiff boot to get the best response from those boards.

You have the Deeluxe in hand, why not try them? You seem to know exactly what you want, just haven't been able to find it yet.


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## hikeswithdogs (Sep 23, 2011)

ridinbend said:


> If your gonna pursue a stiff men's boot, try the burton driver x. I have tried those deeluxe boots and they're not small, or light, IMO. I have spent the last two seasons of Salomon Malamutes, which I love and I have sensitive feet. I honestly could never wear a hard boot. But that's just me. The Driver X felt super light and super stiff, and were comfortable to me. If your gonna spend the money, yet what you want. I will always be a soft boot splitboarder.
> 
> I have a buddy that bought the TRice DC double boa, and he retightens on every run. I don't think I want to pay the money and not have the boa stay, that would suck.


I feel like skinning just DESTROYS snowboard boots(buy all my shit on clearance) , not like that's going to stop me but they clearly were not designed to last with heavy BC use versus someone someone who purely rides resort.


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## linvillegorge (Jul 6, 2009)

To be completely honest, I don't get the whole stiff = better for gnarly terrain and/or high speeds. I mean, it does to a certain point, but there gets to be a point where to me stiffer just equals less fun. Obviously you're not going to want to bomb serious terrain on a pure jib board, but IMO, once you get past mid-stiff, it's just starting to take away from the fun and starts to deaden the feel. As always, that's just my opinion and your mileage may vary.


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

radiomuse210 said:


> You have the Deeluxe in hand, why not try them? You seem to know exactly what you want, just haven't been able to find it yet.


Now I still can return them. The boots cost a fair amount thus I try to be less insecure 
And I'm insecure if I want to keep them '14 ones or get the '15 ones or don't get them at all... I have no experience with this type of boots and thus was looking for hints. (Need to order onlinefrom a neighbor country cos they are not available in my size in my country which means shipping costs :blahblah: )


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## Argo (Feb 25, 2010)

We just got some of the spark xv also to try out. They are almost as stiff as a hardboot.... Pretty comfortable and seem like they will be responsive when strapped in. did have to adjust our bindings out a bit but Damn, I love stiff boots. These are stiff enough that I'd call them super stiff. I have never flexed a boot like it. my talons are a mid flex in my eyes.


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## SnowDogWax (Nov 8, 2013)

Reading your post on hitting those narrow chutes it's quite worth the cost of those Spark boots... 

Intuition moldable liners come in thin, medium, and high density. 

High density liner can fill space if the Spark boot is to large. 

The thin density liner helps if the Spark boot is to tight as well. 

These liners can make it work if the fit is off... check out there web-site

IMHO better a larger boot and fill with the high density liner.


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## Deacon (Mar 2, 2013)

Why dont you go for a hike in then and see how they feel?


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

wrathfuldeity said:


> uhmmm...why not switch to an at hardboot set up?* I've toyed with the idea...but not that far in deep into bc...but if progress to that point... it seems to be the setup.


Hmmm... not at this point. Can't give any better reason but simply a hardboot = meh feeling



linvillegorge said:


> To be completely honest, I don't get the whole stiff = better for gnarly terrain and/or high speeds. I mean, it does to a certain point, but there gets to be a point where to me stiffer just equals less fun. Obviously you're not going to want to bomb serious terrain on a pure jib board, but IMO, once you get past mid-stiff, it's just starting to take away from the fun and starts to deaden the feel. As always, that's just my opinion and your mileage may vary.


I actually didn't aim to go super stiff, I initially just wanted something bit stiffer than Contour/Cadence which honestly aren't that stiff. I can fold them... I just feel that I loose a lot of potential response... but there's no other women's boot, men's boots didn’t fit, and the Deeluxe unisex thingies do fit... I'm intrigued to give them a try. Maybe they're over the top and I won't like them when using them on snow. I don't know. See :temptation:





Deacon said:


> Why dont you go for a hike in then and see how they feel?


See post #7 



ridinbend said:


> If your gonna pursue a stiff men's boot, try the burton driver x. I have tried those deeluxe boots and they're not small, or light, IMO. I have spent the last two seasons of Salomon Malamutes, which I love and I have sensitive feet.


Looked at both when the hub got new boots (he got the Driver X). Both have rather high boot leg, tho not available in my size, I assume that calve pinch would be an issue...



Argo said:


> We just got some of the spark xv also to try out. They are almost as stiff as a hardboot.... Pretty comfortable and seem like they will be responsive when strapped in. did have to adjust our bindings out a bit but Damn, I love stiff boots. These are stiff enough that I'd call them super stiff. I have never flexed a boot like it. my talons are a mid flex in my eyes.


Do you have info, if the '15 is preferrable over the '14 model? Read that the new is lighter and has additional flex adjustment for hiking vs. riding. Marketing gimmick or worth to get the '15 one? (They're only 50$ more than the '14...)



SnowDogWax said:


> Reading your post on hitting those narrow chutes it's quite worth the cost of those Spark boots...
> 
> Intuition moldable liners come in thin, medium, and high density.
> 
> ...


Thin=PF, med=TF, thick=TFP? I've called them to ask about the liners cos I can't open their web-site. They said that the PF liner adjusts to the feet by body temperature, the TF and TFP by heat molding. Hmmm... the '14 is only in stock as PF in 25 mondo size, that's the one I have at home now: fits well in width, maybe tiny tad small at the toes... I may order the '15 in 25.5 to have a comparison.


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

*TF or PF?*

Any hints, if a TF (thermo fit, can be heat molded) or a PF (performance fit, molds just by wearing them, by body temperature) liner would be preferrable? Should I get a TF, and why? Is it only to get rid of pressure points? So if I don't feel pressure points with a PF liner, they're good enough and I don't need a TF?

I so far never had a liner heat molded... no pressure points in any liner so far (my "problem zone" is the foot sole, I reckon that thermo molding doesn't help there...?)


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## SnowDogWax (Nov 8, 2013)

Heat moldable liner will help.. thick=TFP will help a lot. Agree with ordering 25.5 then the higher density will do a number of things. 1. Fill voids, 2. act as a cushion 3.Warmer boot 4. Make boot stiffer.


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

SnowDogWax said:


> Heat moldable liner will help.. thick=TFP will help a lot. Agree with ordering 25.5 then the higher density will do a number of things. 1. Fill voids, 2. act as a cushion 3.Warmer boot 4. Make boot stiffer.


Thanks! Dang... Can't find a TFP (neither all over in Europe nor US) in size 25.5, thus will have to go with a TF.


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## deagol (Mar 26, 2014)

hikeswithdogs said:


> I feel like skinning just DESTROYS snowboard boots.....


interesting.. could you expand on this ?


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## destroy (Dec 16, 2012)

deagol said:


> hikeswithdogs said:
> 
> 
> > I feel like skinning just DESTROYS snowboard boots.....
> ...


Lots of people feel that way. It flexes and stresses your boots in ways that they never experience when you're just riding along. Imagine having your boots done up and waking around in 'em for 5-6 hours. Kinda feels taxing, doesn't it? That's why they started making more of these things with flex points and articulating cuffs to bend where they're needed when skinning, yet not effect your normal riding at all.


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## destroy (Dec 16, 2012)

Neni,

I'm surprised you're having any issues at all with these boots! They seem like they would be totally right up your alley. Some tweaking may be needed, but you'll probably be happy in the end. Not many stuff men's boots will be made in that small a size either, I'm pretty sure, so you may have found the ticket. You could consider ordering the 2015's and returning one of them once you make a decision. Think of it like the cost of going to the store to find something, and shipping etc kinda evens out. This kinda stuff happens here in Canada as well (in a snowboarding mecca like Vancouver/Whistler, no less!) so we understand!  

Good luck!


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## deagol (Mar 26, 2014)

destroy said:


> Lots of people feel that way. It flexes and stresses your boots in ways that they never experience when you're just riding along. Imagine having your boots done up and waking around in 'em for 5-6 hours. Kinda feels taxing, doesn't it? That's why they started making more of these things with flex points and articulating cuffs to bend where they're needed when skinning, yet not effect your normal riding at all.


that makes sense.. thanks.


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## Argo (Feb 25, 2010)

Don't know about differences in the new versus old neni. We got last years model and they are comfy, true to size and stiffer than an 18 year old on a Viagra/cialis combo stack.


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## neachdainn (Dec 8, 2012)

I picked up the same boots neni... Coming from malamutes (which I think you'd like, but would pack out through skinning), I'm pretty impressed with the comfort of them. I have to wear orthotics in my shoes, and found (so far) that these boots, combined with some good insoles are extremely comfy so far.


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

destroy said:


> Lots of people feel that way. It flexes and stresses your boots in ways that they never experience when you're just riding along. Imagine having your boots done up and waking around in 'em for 5-6 hours. Kinda feels taxing, doesn't it? That's why they started making more of these things with flex points and articulating cuffs to bend where they're needed when skinning, yet not effect your normal riding at all.


Hmmm... maybe that's why the Cadence feel pretty soft already...(?) Used them ~40days, many hours of walking. 



neachdainn said:


> I picked up the same boots neni... Coming from malamutes (which I think you'd like, but would pack out through skinning), I'm pretty impressed with the comfort of them. I have to wear orthotics in my shoes, and found (so far) that these boots, combined with some good insoles are extremely comfy so far.


How long are you usinfg them? Do they soon soften as well? I'll combine them with my thermo soles - so far the only soles that make hiking bearable and not pure pain after 1h.


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## neachdainn (Dec 8, 2012)

neni said:


> Hmmm... maybe that's why the Cadence feel pretty soft already...(?) Used them ~40days, many hours of walking.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



It sounds to me like you need to see a podiatrist and get some orthotics! I went from limping around everywhere to actually walking like a normal human being. 

They are brand new, so I can't really comment on them beyond first impressions.


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

The '15 in 25.5 have arrived. Gosh, they run small. The '15 25.5 is the same size as the '14 25! (I checked the insoles, congruent, maybe 1-2mm difference). 

And - of course - the 26 is sold out as TF all over Europe. I can only get my hands on a *PF* in 26. Or can I hope that a 25.5 *TF* heat molding will get a tad more room for toes? I'm fine in the 25.5 when strapped in and with the heels pushed all the way to the end of the boot, but if standing straight, the toes touch the front. Hmmm... 

BTW: I've got to pay for each return

I knew this will be another Odyssey... .


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## neachdainn (Dec 8, 2012)

neni said:


> The '15 in 25.5 have arrived. Gosh, they run small. The '15 25.5 is the same size as the '14 25! (I checked the insoles, congruent, maybe 1-2mm difference).
> 
> And - of course - the 26 is sold out as TF all over Europe. I can only get my hands on a *PF* in 26. Or can I hope that a 25.5 *TF* heat molding will get a tad more room for toes? I'm fine in the 25.5 when strapped in and with the heels pushed all the way to the end of the boot, but if standing straight, the toes touch the front. Hmmm...
> 
> ...



I got about a half size out of heat molding my liners, and a bit more by changing the insoles.


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

neachdainn said:


> I got about a half size out of heat molding my liners, and a bit more by changing the insoles.


I'm not sure if I get this right... half size bigger or smaller? More space after molding?


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## neachdainn (Dec 8, 2012)

neni said:


> I'm not sure if I get this right... half size bigger or smaller? More space after molding?



Yup, the combination of molding and insole gave me at least a half size more room.


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

neachdainn said:


> Yup, the combination of molding and insole gave me at least a half size more room.


Thanks a lot for this feedback. Took the sole out and checked with my feet: footpring is exactly the same as the sole which I reckon is too scarce (?). 

BTW: I now had the direct comparism of the '14 and '15 myself on my feet. The '14 is over all stiffer around the ankle, the '15 has a flex zone around the ankle which is recognizable. If strapped in and steaos decently tightebed, both are heavenky stiff. While the '14 has one lace for the upper and one for the lower boot, the '15 has one for the ankle part and the other for the rest (lace goes through upper and lower boot), tho they claim that one still can adjust upper n lower boot separately (C3 system). Haven't found out yet how, but I will eventually . And it is slightly less bulky (fits even in my M Escapades with their rather narrow heelcup).

Pretty stoked so far, the boot feels great in terms of flex n heelhold, no pressure points, just need to find a TF in 25.5 or 26 now and some place capable to heat mold


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## XR4Ti (Dec 12, 2009)

Like neachdainn said, you might be able to get more space by swapping insoles, especially if you have a high arch. An insole with more arch support brings the toes back, effectively shortening your foot.


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

XR4Ti said:


> Like neachdainn said, you might be able to get more space by swapping insoles, especially if you have a high arch. An insole with more arch support brings the toes back, effectively shortening your foot.


Sounds logical. Thanks for the hint! Yes, I do have a high arch.

Sorry for all the naive questions... I'm such a noob if i comes to boot fitting :embarrased1:


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## radiomuse210 (Sep 5, 2014)

neni said:


> Thanks a lot for this feedback. Took the sole out and checked with my feet: footpring is exactly the same as the sole which I reckon is too scarce (?).
> 
> BTW: I now had the direct comparism of the '14 and '15 myself on my feet. The '14 is over all stiffer around the ankle, the '15 has a flex zone around the ankle which is recognizable. If strapped in and steaos decently tightebed, both are heavenky stiff. While the '14 has one lace for the upper and one for the lower boot, the '15 has one for the ankle part and the other for the rest (lace goes through upper and lower boot), tho they claim that one still can adjust upper n lower boot separately (C3 system). Haven't found out yet how, but I will eventually . And it is slightly less bulky (fits even in my M Escapades with their rather narrow heelcup).
> 
> Pretty stoked so far, the boot feels great in terms of flex n heelhold, no pressure points, just need to find a TF in 25.5 or 26 now and some place capable to heat mold



Not to threadjack Neni - but I noticed your comment about the Escapades. Is the heelcup more narrow compared to other Burton bindings that you've tried? Thinking of upgrading to the Escapades on the new board I get for next season. Have used Stilettos and they fit my 32 boots fine - but any narrower would be an issue.


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

radiomuse210 said:


> Not to threadjack Neni - but I noticed your comment about the Escapades. Is the heelcup more narrow compared to other Burton bindings that you've tried? Thinking of upgrading to the Escapades on the new board I get for next season. Have used Stilettos and they fit my 32 boots fine - but any narrower would be an issue.


The only other Burton I've tried are Diodes, so can't say how the Escapades compare to the Stilettos. The Escapades size M are just the ones in my quiver that are the smallest/most narrow. I had mentioned them having the comment of the shop guy in mind saying that the Spark boots are so massive that they won't fit the usual bindings thus one would have to get bindings in bigger size and thus they don't sell these boots :blahblah: - which is BS IMO as the boot I have at home now in size EUR 40 fit into a womens binding size M as well as normal women's boots the size. 

I'm sure, you'll be fine with the Escapades with your boots. They are great bindings, really love this "hammock" straps. So comfy and responsive. Great system. Going to get Lexas as soon as they'll have the same strap system


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## radiomuse210 (Sep 5, 2014)

neni said:


> The only other Burton I've tried are Diodes, so can't say how the Escapades compare to the Stilettos. The Escapades size M are just the ones in my quiver that are the smallest/most narrow. I had mentioned them having the comment of the shop guy in mind saying that the Spark boots are so massive that they won't fit the usual bindings thus one would have to get bindings in bigger size and thus they don't sell these boots :blahblah: - which is BS IMO as the boot I have at home now in size EUR 40 fit into a womens binding size M as well as normal women's boots the size.
> 
> I'm sure, you'll be fine with the Escapades with your boots. They are great bindings, really love this "hammock" straps. So comfy and responsive. Great system. Going to get Lexas as soon as they'll have the same strap system


Nice - thanks for the info!


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

neachdainn said:


> Yup, the combination of molding and a half size more room.


May I ask how big your foot is compared to the soles that came with the boot?

If I stand on the XV 25.5 sole, my big toe of the left foot has the exact same length as the sole, length of the foot actually is 24.5cm... 










Edit: just talked with the Blue Tomato local store in Berlin (my boss just told me yesterday that I gonna join a meetng in Berlin in two weeks) and they were very helpful. They'll order the 26 and 26.5 PF to this store from their base in Austria so I can try both. They don't have the TF in stock but would then backorder the one size that fits. Yay.


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## neachdainn (Dec 8, 2012)

Sure... I'll do that for you later today. But for now.... I'M OFF TO WHISTLER! wheeeeeeeee!


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## t21 (Dec 29, 2010)

neni said:


> May I ask how big your foot is compared to the soles that came with the boot?
> 
> If I stand on the XV 25.5 sole, my big toe of the left foot has the exact same length as the sole, length of the foot actually is 24.5cm...
> 
> ...


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

Well now.... after learning a lot about boot fitting n sizes over here http://www.snowboardingforum.com/boots/153826-heel-lift-1st-day-should-i.html, post (#35 and later), I now also got an answer by a Deeluxe product manager who a) further assured that the boots are intentionally designed to fit as snug b) the 25 will match my 24.5 foot and c) to keep the PF liner and don't chase for a TF since I don't have a reliable boot fitter at hand to mold them.

So... the hunt is over, I'm eased, and stoked, got new boots :woohoo:

Thanks a lot neachdainn and Wiredsport for all the helpful info on "performance snowboard boot fitting" in the other thread.


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## neachdainn (Dec 8, 2012)

BTW, I had my first full day in the Sparks today - really like them. Had the top go loose once on one of them as I didn't have it locked down right, but the Velcro strap holds things together well enough that I didn't notice till halfway through the day. Haha. Quite comfy, no heel lift and nice and responsive. 

The toes do stick out a bit more than normal (understandable since they are for kicking into snow), so these will be used on my wide boards only. Booted out a bit too easily on my narrow boards, but that's mostly because I have canoes for feet. 

The heel is quite narrow; so no issues at all fitting into my NOW bindings. Narrower than my salomons, but don't feel narrow on my feet.


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## neachdainn (Dec 8, 2012)

Oh! They're also TF not PF like I thought.


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

*New question*

Been using them XV now quite a bit and really like them. Foot was tight around ankles n toes in the beginning but now comfortably packed out. Response is brilliant, exactly what I've been looking for. They're also very comfy for hiking.

Just one thing... is it normal that the speed lacing comes loose during the day?


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## neachdainn (Dec 8, 2012)

neni said:


> Been using them XV now quite a bit and really like them. Foot was tight around ankles n toes in the beginning but now comfortably packed out. Response is brilliant, exactly what I've been looking for. They're also very comfy for hiking.
> 
> Just one thing... is it normal that the speed lacing comes loose during the day?



Yeah, I have to tighten mine once or twice


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