# Crystal Mountain Not Selling Walk Up Lift Tickets



## lab49232 (Sep 13, 2011)

Crystal Closes its Doors to Walk-up Lift Tickets

I actually love this. I can also say with 100% certainty this has next to nothing to do with the Ikon Pass. On Hood for example during this storm Meadows had almost the exact same situation and it's on a non existent pass exchange. Roads were nearly impassable, being intermittently shut down, mass travel advisories, and still by the times lift started turning every single lot was already at capacity. 

It's an interesting concept I would love to see tested. I'm to the point where I'm fed up with Hood, having to wake up at 5 am on a weekend get around, drive two hours to get to the resort so I can sit and wait an hour in the lot just so I can ensure I get a parking spot. And then ride for a mere 2 or 3 hours before the resort is completely tracked out. But............ I can't see resorts passing up on the money long term.


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## Rip154 (Sep 23, 2017)

"While many skiers got to surf the epic conditions, ..." 

Eh, no...


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## lab49232 (Sep 13, 2011)

Ya the writing is pretty... miserable, it's why I was also making it a point to say his whole complaining about the Ikon pass is stupid as well. But it's about the concept not the terrible writing.


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## coloradodirtbag (Feb 9, 2017)

Wah wah wah, we've been dealing with this bullshit in CO for a decade. Wake up early and quit bitchin'


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## lab49232 (Sep 13, 2011)

Right, Colorado SUCKS, so rather than fix it everyone should just get up earlier and earlier and sit and wait for lifts longer and longer, camping out at the mountain just to have a parking spot? Sounds like a plan someone in Colorado should have thought of years ago. But then again I dont know how easy it is for Colorado resorts to get so full they literally tell people they have to turn around and drive 2 hours home because there's no room for them. Now you drove 4 hours never even got out of the car and wasted your entire day.

Some Colorado people also dont realize there aren't tons of shuttles or alternate lots or towns halfway to all the resorts here, especially Hood. You wanna get to the mountain, you drive, that's it and hope their limited parking has availability. I'm wondering if that's what makes it a unique solution for this area because the crowd problems and cause in the PNW are very different than Colorado. Again more likely than not its turning away money that's the real issue but idk.


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## Rip154 (Sep 23, 2017)

I guess the megacities nearby and not enough lifts has something to do with it. Stacking too many people in one place that don't go often enough to yield a profit, and the standard for patrols and infrastructure at a resort is so high that you need a solid income, plus it's hard to open anything new while protecting the mountain areas. More resorts with just a campsite and parking lot, one lift and a groomerrun could work. Keeping it so low maintenance that enthusiasts could spend 20 mins hiking per run instead of standing in line for 30. The randoms would bugger off to the bigger resorts. In general, just parking lots and camp sites would do if more people would take up touring, and be easier to allow for authorities.


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## coloradodirtbag (Feb 9, 2017)

There's two ways to fix this problem, but neither will be implemented due to cost. Expand highways or build public transit. In Colorado, the cost to build a mag-lav train or to reblast the Eisenhower tunnel was estimated around $10B, that's never going to happen.

As millennials and younger generations become older you're going to see more and more people moving out of rural America and back into metropolitan areas. Your Seattle ski areas are only going to get worse. Not a chance in hell you climate denying NIMBY fucks will ever approve a public transit initiative. Get use to it


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## lab49232 (Sep 13, 2011)

coloradodirtbag said:


> There's two ways to fix this problem, but neither will never be implemented due to cost. Expand highways or build public transit. In Colorado, the cost to build a mag-lav train or to reblast the Eisenhower tunnel was estimated around $10B, that's never going to happen.
> 
> As millennials and younger generations become older you're going to see more and more people moving out of rural America and back into metropolitan areas. Your Seattle ski areas are only going to get worse. Not a chance in hell you climate denying NIMBY fucks will ever approve a public transit initiative. Get use to it


Expanded highways just increases traffic to the resort, where we are already at parking capacity and turning cars around to go back home.... Sure the I70 traffic jams are legendary but you expand that and you're just encouraging more people to make the drive, doesn't make sense to me but maybe I misunderstood.

But basically making resorts private member only resorts on Holidays and peak days, why not? I'd personally pay a premium to be a member at a ski resort like that. If you have 4 mountains in the same area and one is a members only on weekends, are you gonna get a pass to there or sit through Breck public crowds?


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## coloradodirtbag (Feb 9, 2017)

lab49232 said:


> Expanded highways just increases traffic to the resort, where we are already at parking capacity and turning cars around to go back home.... Sure the I70 traffic jams are legendary but you expand that and you're just encouraging more people to make the drive, doesn't make sense to me but maybe I misunderstood.


Increase parking... Build new parking garages with multiple stories. Charge for parking to pay for the cost of construction/maintenance. Give free parking to those who carpool with 4+



lab49232 said:


> But basically making resorts private member only resorts on Holidays and peak days, why not? I'd personally pay a premium to be a member at a ski resort like that. If you have 4 mountains in the same area and one is a members only on weekends, are you gonna get a pass to there or sit through Breck public crowds?


You want to limit revenue generation on the busiest days of the year? The cost of this private members only pass would have to exceed $10,000 to generate the same amount of revenue as day tickets. What a stupid fucking idea. There's already member's only private ski resorts, but you can't afford it!


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## Rip154 (Sep 23, 2017)

It would probably ruin the industry when people with a normal income and minimal interest couldn't afford it, or shift it more towards touring, but most likely not.


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## lab49232 (Sep 13, 2011)

The biggest problem with increased parking is space. Again in the PNW you have places like Mt Hood where there isn't room to build more parking, If there was they aren't allowed because they operate on a permit from the National forrest which isn't too keen on letting them go just chop down thousands of square feet of protected land for parking.

Ski resorts like Crystal already do the carpool discount with premium parking offers, it's obviously done nothing to curb traffic.

And again I said money is why it would be difficult, but guess what Crystal literally just did it. It's not full private as you can preorder from a limited number of public tickets online which does help from losing complete ticket window income. I'm well aware of small scale private clubs, but not many are doing what Crystal is where it's a mix. I was a member of a private ski resort Holimont in NY actually thank you very much. Cost was a little over 3K for the membership for most. I was working at Holiday Valley on the other side of the ridge though so I got a great hookup.

The idea is to allow resorts to actually decide exactly how many people it wants on the mountain per day and adapt. Eliminate the guesswork of people not knowing what to expect from crowds for the day. It's not about eliminating all ticket sales or eliminating crowds, it's crowd management.


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## Rip154 (Sep 23, 2017)

Gotta whip out the railroads and scyscrapers then I guess.


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## coloradodirtbag (Feb 9, 2017)

lab49232 said:


> The biggest problem with increased parking is space. Again in the PNW you have places like Mt Hood where there isn't room to build more parking, If there was they aren't allowed because they operate on a permit from the National forrest which isn't too keen on letting them go just chop down thousands of square feet of protected land for parking.
> 
> Ski resorts like Crystal already do the carpool discount with premium parking offers, it's obviously done nothing to curb traffic.
> 
> ...


I like Powder Mountain's business model, but they're not on a mega pass. Once your local resort gets bought by these conglomerates, all bets are off. You wouldn't be experiencing this issue if Crystal didn't sell out to Ikon


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## rocky clark (Dec 11, 2019)

The Ikon pass is definitely a factor. Most people I know never bought a crystal season pass. This year I know tons of people who bought them. A lot of people also switched from the Epic Pass because parking was always shit at Stevens Pass and it got even worse when Vail bought them and put it on the Epic pass, but it's never been a huge problem at Crystal. It was very rare for Crystal to turn people away, and when they did, it was at like 11am. Now they're turning people away at 7:30am. I'm also running into a lot more non-locals on the lifts.

I also heard they sold 2-3x the number of passes this year. I'm not sure how they count that, since they don't sell the passes directly anymore, or if it's even true, but it lines up with the drastic difference we are seeing.

But the COO knows exactly how many lift tickets vs passholders are scanning every day, so I wouldn't dismiss his comments as stupid. That would be stupid.

The mega passes have absolutely ruined Washington state.


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## lab49232 (Sep 13, 2011)

That's the thing though it's not Ikon. Hood resorts aren't on Ikon and had the exact same problem during this storm. It's all location to large cities and powder dump on a weekend. What is Powder Mountains business model that you like thoguh. Will be interesting to see if this solution works for Crystal


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## mojo maestro (Jan 6, 2009)

PowMow sells a limited number of day passes each day...............when they gone.........they gone...............


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## mojo maestro (Jan 6, 2009)

The real problem............it's too easy to reproduce......................


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## rocky clark (Dec 11, 2019)

lab49232 said:


> That's the thing though it's not Ikon. Hood resorts aren't on Ikon and had the exact same problem during this storm. It's all location to large cities and powder dump on a weekend. What is Powder Mountains business model that you like thoguh. Will be interesting to see if this solution works for Crystal


Crystal has always been near Seattle and has always had large powder dumps on weekends, and even on its most busy days ever, it was nothing close to this. Not even close. So I don't buy it.

One thing it has never had in at least 10 years is $750 season passes and $100+ daily lift tickets.


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## lab49232 (Sep 13, 2011)

Right Crystal is the same as the resorts on Hood except Hood doesn't have any mega passes. The difference is not just crowds having increased every year, then this year with the lack of a season until this storm everyone was starved for snow. You get to January with zero now and then have an epic dump, everyone comes out of the woodwork. It was this way at every resort across the PNW that weekend regardless of Ikon pass or not. You have direct comparisons so it's very easy to tell.

As for PowMow are they all presale tickets? If not that's not really helpful as mountains like Crystal would still have had this problem. You have people driving to the mountain to see if they can ride or not and then turning around to go home when they're told the mountains full. Crystal is doing only presale day tickets, you can't buy a ticket online, don't drive to the mountain. This prevents needless extra cars on the road, prevents turnarounds at the mountain. No need to fight people to get up early enough to get a ticket or a parking spot


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## vodkaboarder (Feb 9, 2013)

mojo maestro said:


> The real problem............it's too easy to reproduce......................


And that right there is the cause of nearly every problem the human race faces today. Too many fucking people.

Shame nobody wants to admit it.


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## smellysell (Oct 29, 2018)

vodkaboarder said:


> And that right there is the cause of nearly every problem the human race faces today. Too many fucking people.
> 
> Shame nobody wants to admit it.


Not to mention the people that have no business reproducing are the ones doing it the most. 

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


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## rocky clark (Dec 11, 2019)

So this policy change did pretty much nothing. Full by 7:10am today even with no walk-up sales.


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## lab49232 (Sep 13, 2011)

rocky clark said:


> So this policy change did pretty much nothing. Full by 7:10am today even with no walk-up sales.


1: The idea was to eliminate people being turned around and sent home. It wasn't going to lower sales to below mountain capacity but rather ensure it meets capacity not exceeds it.
2: How many people are even aware of the policy change? I barely came across the post on some small blog. Policy changes take a LONG time for the public to learn. This was literally day one of it, I'd have been beyond shocked to have seen it have major effect on the first day. There are tons of people who don't know the change and pass holders are still operating on their old schedule where they had to be there early. As crowds diminsh (if they ever do, not saying they will yet) people will start showing up to the mountain later as the trend catches on.
3: Holiday weekend come on, MLK weekend is literally the BUSIEST weekend of the year for ski resorts. MLK serves as the Black Friday equivalent for ski resorts.
4:Hood hit main lot capacities at 8:05, Holiday weekend, storm weekend, and fear of the debacle of last weeks issues made for the perfect storm of directing crowds to arrive even earlier than ever.


Determining the idea a success or failure will likely take the rest of the season if not longer but you'd expect to start seeing improvements if they happen in a few weeks as word spreads. There will 100% be people showing up to the mountain next season still unaware they cant buy a pass on the mountain. It's a nightmare educating the public, especially people who never ride and never interact with you. Instituting the policy is easily going to be the hardest part as they will anger many people who show up unaware until the policy becomes general knowledge. I'm more curious to see if they can wait it out long enough for that to happen.


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## Triple8Sol (Nov 24, 2008)

You


rocky clark said:


> The Ikon pass is definitely a factor. Most people I know never bought a crystal season pass. This year I know tons of people who bought them. A lot of people also switched from the Epic Pass because parking was always shit at Stevens Pass and it got even worse when Vail bought them and put it on the Epic pass, but it's never been a huge problem at Crystal. It was very rare for Crystal to turn people away, and when they did, it was at like 11am. Now they're turning people away at 7:30am. I'm also running into a lot more non-locals on the lifts.


You hit it on the head. Being bought out by Alterra and being on the Ikon pass isn't necessarily bringing a ton of out-of-state visitors, but it increased the amount of "locals" that bought a season pass tremendously. The Ikon Base is cheaper than the former Crystal-only season pass, and the Ikon Unlimited is still on par with the old peak season pricing. Can't help laughing when I see all the bitching about Stevens traffic/parking (which is/was legitimate) suddenly shift to Crystal, which has instantly become even worse.

Overall though, the huge influx of people to the greater Seattle area, the majority of which have the means to occasionally afford an expensive day of skiing/snowboarding, is the biggest problem for every resort within a reasonable drive of the city. Even Baker parking lots have been getting filled up and they've had to turn people away several weekends this season already, which was previously truly unheard of!

Whether Crystal instituted this new policy out of genuine concern or just purely as a pre-emptive PR-move I applaud it. It still allows plenty of non-passholders with the advance online sales, walk-up buddy passes, and pre-purchased vouchers/certificates/giftcards/etc... Hopefully word travels quickly and people figure it out by the end of the season, and they keep it in place for next year. I got both Epic & Ikon passes this year, but as of now I have no idea what I'm going to do next season...


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