# Does Flying V live up?



## M.C._Dub (Jan 18, 2013)

How does everyone feel about Flying V tech from Burton? I've heard a mixed bag, pros being contact and pop/flex, cons being edge hold on hard pack and speed.

I love the idea of the rocker-camber-rocker profile, just curious what everyone else thinks about its real life application


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## corneilli (Nov 26, 2012)

M.C._Dub said:


> How does everyone feel about Flying V tech from Burton? I've heard a mixed bag, pros being contact and pop/flex, cons being *edge hold* on hard pack and speed.
> 
> I love the idea of the rocker-camber-rocker profile, just curious what everyone else thinks about its real life application


How is holding an edge a con? :blink:


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## ig88 (Jan 3, 2012)

corneilli said:


> How is holding an edge a con? :blink:


He meant problems with holding an edge being a con.


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## trez17 (Jan 2, 2013)

Can confirm that it's really smooth for powder & normal conditions. Speed also pretty good in my eyes. The big disappointment is indeed the really bad edge hold on ice. Frostbite edges don't work !!


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## corneilli (Nov 26, 2012)

Oops, my bad :thumbsup:


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## ig88 (Jan 3, 2012)

trez17 said:


> Can confirm that it's really smooth for powder & normal conditions. Speed also pretty good in my eyes. The big disappointment is indeed the really bad edge hold on ice. Frostbite edges don't work !!


Yeah I also want to hear about Burton's frost bite advantage from more people other than from Burton. Burton's frost bite to me is a real mystery. Does anyone know how it works?


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## trez17 (Jan 2, 2013)

ig88 said:


> Yeah I also want to hear about Burton's frost bite advantage from more people other than from Burton. Burton's frost bite to me is a real mystery. Does anyone know how it works?


It's around 0.5mm extra boardwide @ the bindings edge 









In my eyes it's to little to make a change, I don't notice the difference between normal Burton Rocker without, then Flying V with it...


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## AJHXXXIII (Oct 11, 2011)

I have a capita TFA, a GNU DK, and a Burton Custom Restricted with frostbite and under general/average snow conditions I feel like the Burton washes out the most, the other two I rarely if ever wash out on. On ice though I feel like they are all about equal. To be honest, I'm not a Burton Hater, but I probably won't buy another Burton board again. If I didn't already own it and could sell it I would (you practically have to give a custom restricted away to get rid of it). Here's a video some of you may appreciate from the House Board Shop testing a bunch of different manufacturers' edge hold on ice.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRIt2rna2Pk


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## M.C._Dub (Jan 18, 2013)

I'm demoing a Custom Flying V today. Dust on crust conditions. I'll post an update later on about edge hold. Super curious how the profile and frostbite will work.


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## Lamps (Sep 3, 2011)

After a couple years of riding my Flying V i found that I ride it differently from camber when on ice. This mostly compensates. If you ride your Flying V same as camber it's not as good on ice.


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## david_z (Dec 14, 2009)

not overly impressed with the flying v especially the Custom Flying-V which had exaggerated the rocker. I think BA once referred to that board as "like trying to balance on a beach ball". It isn't *that* bad, but I'm just not fond of the way it rides and yeah, the frostbite tech is not even noticeable. Burton's regular v rocker or whatever they use on the Joystick is a better camber profile IMO than the flying-V but that's just my opinon.


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## M.C._Dub (Jan 18, 2013)

Lamps said:


> After a couple years of riding my Flying V i found that I ride it differently from camber when on ice. This mostly compensates. If you ride your Flying V same as camber it's not as good on ice.


Care to elaborate on this Lamps? Are you talking physically you ride it differently like with the motion of your feet and body? Or are you saying you adjust your line down the hill/are more careful and selective than when riding camber?


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## ig88 (Jan 3, 2012)

M.C._Dub said:


> Care to elaborate on this Lamps? Are you talking physically you ride it differently like with the motion of your feet and body? Or are you saying you adjust your line down the hill/are more careful and selective than when riding camber?


+1 to that. Yes I want to hear Lamps elaborate that too.


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## ig88 (Jan 3, 2012)

trez17 said:


> It's around 0.5mm extra boardwide @ the bindings edge
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks. I never knew anything about it until you explained it. I heard the House Boardshop people on youtube mention it a hundred times without any elaboration as if everybody understood the tech behind it. I am not saying I understand the tech behind it now but at least I have a better idea.




AJHXXXIII said:


> I have a capita TFA, a GNU DK, and a Burton Custom Restricted with frostbite and under general/average snow conditions I feel like the Burton washes out the most, the other two I rarely if ever wash out on. On ice though I feel like they are all about equal. To be honest, I'm not a Burton Hater, but I probably won't buy another Burton board again. If I didn't already own it and could sell it I would (you practically have to give a custom restricted away to get rid of it). Here's a video some of you may appreciate from the House Board Shop testing a bunch of different manufacturers' edge hold on ice.
> 
> Snowboard Edge Test - Ice Breakers - YouTube


Thanks. I watched this video quite a while back. Fun to watch and the summary was very interesting. Have to give them great credits for putting together an experiment like that, even though the design of the tests could be criticized for not being scientific in a number of ways. I really don't want to split hairs and create arguments here. It was a good video I have to say again. The take-home message I got from the video was Burton's frostbite was not something I could seriously count on.


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## southy (Jan 10, 2013)

I've ridden a Custom FV, Process FV and owned a Sherlock for a short time. I liked them all in really soft conditions, but like everyone else here is saying....zero grip on ice and they all washed out on firm conditions unless I paid 100% attention. I don't want to have to concentrate that hard to stay upright. There are better hybrid camber profiles out there, and much better edge technology (like Magne-Traction). I love my cambered Burton board, but Flying V just doesn't work as advertised.


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## Lamps (Sep 3, 2011)

M.C._Dub said:


> Care to elaborate on this Lamps? Are you talking physically you ride it differently like with the motion of your feet and body? Or are you saying you adjust your line down the hill/are more careful and selective than when riding camber?


In the turns I tend to push outwards a bit with both feet which drives the board under my feet more into the hill, this engages the cambered section of the board more. I also commit more to my edge, and bend deeper from the knees, which digs it in more and reduces sliding, or at least allows you to modulate the grip. 

I lent that board to a friend of mine yesterday (burton Sherlock), he has never ridden non camber and he was naturally inclined to adjust his riding style same way. We were specially discussing this on the chair as he gave me his impressions. It may be that the technique I describe above is just better riding form. My friend felt it would be difficult to catch an edge with Flying V, and he proved this by alternating between switch and regular while riding my board faster than i would ever dare to, never mind switching direction at that speed. I hate when he does this, takes my equipment to a new level after a half hour of riding it. 

Back on topic Snowolf has also said that he rides his hybrids a little differently and this can compensate. In my case I can't fully compensate but it's not fair to write off Flying V after only a short demo, you ride it a little different and can make up for most of it and in softer conditions the rocker aspects of that profile make for great performance and big fun. 

I have a cambered board and if I'm expecting hard hard snow or mucho ice I will take it instead so I'm not saying that the Flying V can match camber but with a little practise you can close the gap. And in fresh snow you can't get your cambered board to give you the benefit of hybrid shapes.


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## Oldman (Mar 7, 2012)

My daughter is a fairly hard charging rider. ( She plays D1 Women's hockey ) She currently has a choice of rinding a 2012 Burton Feelgood Flying V or an Atomic Fallen Angel ( couple of years old, true camber, fast Sintered 4000 base). If it is hard pack / ice, the Burton stays home and the Atomic goes to the hill. 
She has a great time riding the Burton when the conditions are good to excellent. We are Ice Coast riders and when the conditions are hard & icy she finds the Burton simply cannot hold an edge. She is in constant fear of it washing out; she simply cannot trust it to hold an edge at all.

Based on her feedback, ( along with the majority of the feedback here ) the Burton Flying V should only be considered for soft or powder days. In its element, it is a fun, easy to ride board. But this is not a "one board quiver" by any stretch.


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## M.C._Dub (Jan 18, 2013)

Oldman said:


> My daughter is a fairly hard charging rider. ( She plays D1 Women's hockey ) She currently has a choice of rinding a 2012 Burton Feelgood Flying V or an Atomic Fallen Angel ( couple of years old, true camber, fast Sintered 4000 base). If it is hard pack / ice, the Burton stays home and the Atomic goes to the hill.
> She has a great time riding the Burton when the conditions are good to excellent. We are Ice Coast riders and when the conditions are hard & icy she finds the Burton simply cannot hold an edge. She is in constant fear of it washing out; she simply cannot trust it to hold an edge at all.
> 
> Based on her feedback, ( along with the majority of the feedback here ) the Burton Flying V should only be considered for soft or powder days. In its element, it is a fun, easy to ride board. But this is not a "one board quiver" by any stretch.


Yeah I definitely felt like that's a fair assessment today after demoing a custom. When I really pushed down on the cambered parts I could feel the edge engage, but it really wasn't a confident hold. I felt nervous to push it further into hard traverses on ice because I felt like it would wash out. Granted no board will perform great on ice save for magnetraction, but I was disapointed in how little a difference the frostbite seemed to make. and like Lamps said earlier, I definitely had to adjust the way I made my line down the hill.

I have heard that burton varies the degree of flying v on different models though (antler vs custom vs sherlock) so maybe that would make more of a difference?


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## ig88 (Jan 3, 2012)

M.C._Dub said:


> Yeah I definitely felt like that's a fair assessment today after demoing a custom. When I really pushed down on the cambered parts I could feel the edge engage, but it really wasn't a confident hold. I felt nervous to push it further into hard traverses on ice because I felt like it would wash out. Granted no board will perform great on ice save for magnetraction, but I was disapointed in how little a difference the frostbite seemed to make. and like Lamps said earlier, I definitely had to adjust the way I made my line down the hill.
> 
> I have heard that burton varies the degree of flying v on different models though (antler vs custom vs sherlock) so maybe that would make more of a difference?


Great additional review of the Custom. Then how many brands out there feature the magntraction? I know Rossignol is one.


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## Supra (Jan 11, 2012)

if you guys are talking about real ice, then no board edge tech, not even mag, will keep an edge if you try to carve through it.

on the flying v, i feel the edges are only effective in front of your toes and behind your heels, in the camber sections. So, to use the board effectively in bad conditions, you have to turn from the middle of the board. To go and ride a rockered board like a cambered board will not give you a good experience.

if you generally have icey conditions then don't get a rockered board, or if you do, then learn to ride it. 
I've got friends who were riding the gyrators on ice no problem.


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## ig88 (Jan 3, 2012)

Supra said:


> if you guys are talking about real ice, then no board edge tech, not even mag, will keep an edge if you try to carve through it.
> 
> on the flying v, i feel the edges are only effective in front of your toes and behind your heels, in the camber sections. So, to use the board effectively in bad conditions, you have to *turn from the middle of the board*. To go and ride a rockered board like a cambered board will not give you a good experience.
> 
> ...


But I am only as far good as using either more front foot or back foot to fiddle around in a turn. I don't think I could preferentially use a particular part of the board edge other than those underneath my bindings to do something else. You guys are really good.


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