# 270 Boardslides/Lipslides BS/FS Confusion



## York (Apr 18, 2008)

When spinning onto a rail at anything 180 degrees or over, the FS/BS nomenclature is designated by the direction of the spin and not which side of the rail you approach. I think you already know that but just starting there.

As for the lipslide, I would just call it a board slide. I guess since his tail is crossing over the rail before landing on it, it could be a lipslide technically, but it seems redundant or unnecessary to call it a lipslide every time. I (and I think most announcers) would just call it (the Louif video) a BS 270 in to board slide (or nose slide, tail slide, blunt, whatever depending on the variation). 

In other words, a rider performing a BS 270 in will always land in the same orientation, so there's no need to add extra detail by trying to name what kind of slide it is. If you called it a FS lipslide people would imagine (for a regular rider) the board spinning in the opposite direction of this trick (like a regular 90 degree FS lipslide). And if you called it a BS lipslide you'd imagine the rider coming from the other side of the rail. So both of those sound confusing and unnecessary. BS 270 to boardslide for sure.


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## York (Apr 18, 2008)

edited to add more info


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## MostWicked (Mar 8, 2012)

But wouldnt a BS 270 Boardslide be approached from the heelside (rail on the left for regular) instead?

Like this:

Ryan Barrett- BS 270 Boardslide 270 Out - Transworld Snowboarding

I think there clearly is a difference between 270 Lip/Boardslides...


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## York (Apr 18, 2008)

In that photo he's approaching with the rail on the right and he's on his toe edge. That name is correct.

If you're doing a BS 270 in approaching on your heel edge with the rail on your left that would be called a hardway BS 270 as can be seen here: Top 10 Tricks Of 2011 - Transworld Snowboarding


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## York (Apr 18, 2008)

Spinning hardway onto a rail is the same as lipslides. It's just that usually lipslides are moving your board 90 degrees on and spinning anything over that (180 and up) would be called spinning hardway.


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## MostWicked (Mar 8, 2012)

Top 10 Tricks Of 2011 - Transworld Snowboarding

Thats exactly what i meant. I would call that a BS 270 Boardslide though, or a Hardway BS 270 like you said... Are you 100% sure that 270 Hardway is the equivalent to 270 Lipslide? I know, it would make sense, since you're aproaching the rail with your tail first after take off, like you would on a normal Lipslide. But i thought its exactly the opposite, despite the logic...

That would mean Louif Paradis is wrong...

Also in the picture i posted, its kind of hard to tell from which side he is approaching, maybe thats not the best example.


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## York (Apr 18, 2008)

Backside 270 boardslide and Hardway backside 270 boardslide are completely different. The approach of a Hardway backside 270 would be the same as a lipslide. It's just that it's not called a lipslide with more than 90 degrees of board rotation.

I can see the confusion though, and I think that's because the Youtube video is called a backside 270 lipslide, which is ambiguous and a bit inaccurate. In the actual video itself, it says backside 270 (which is exactly what he's doing) TO lipslide. He also says "backside 270 to lipslide". Therefore, lipslide is just the position he's in once he's locked into the rail but has nothing to do with his approach. The Youtube video title backside 270 lipslide makes it SOUND like he's approaching like a lipslide.

To be honest, even though he's not wrong, I think it's a weird way to call that trick. Backside 270 to boardslide would make more sense.


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## Casual (Feb 9, 2011)

Snowboarders have fucked these terms up so bad it's not even funny anymore. Check the comments on that Nijah clip the guy named it wrong.

Let me make this very simple for you. This is a fact no matter what trick your doing or how you are getting on. 

***If you are approaching the rail and it is in front of you (chest) the trick is frontside. If you approach the rail and it is behind you it is backside.

***If your front foot goes over the rail it is a boardslide. If your backfoot goes over the rail it is a lipslide.

***Hardway is what you call it when you spin what is considered the more difficult way. So for FS approach a a FS spin would be hardway.

So Louif is doing a front 270 lip. He actually called it a BS 270 "to" lip in the on screen title which I guess is still correct. It's more an explanation then a name. It's like saying Im gonna do a BS 270 and land in a FS lip. If you just said FS 270 lip its the same thing. If you said hardway FS 270 Lip that would mean he did a FS 270 on.


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## Casual (Feb 9, 2011)

York said:


> The Youtube video title backside 270 lipslide makes it SOUND like he's approaching like a lipslide.


FYI the approach for a boardslide and a lipslide are the same. FS and BS approach is what changes as well as which foot goes over the rail.


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## York (Apr 18, 2008)

Yeah snowboarding fucked up skateboarding terms for sure. However since his question is regarding snowboarding I don't want to confuse him.

You're right that a BS boardslide and BS lipslide approach is the same. But when you start spinning 180s and up, the FS/BS designation changes from the position of the rail (facing your chest or back) to the direction of your spin as if you were going off a kicker. I understand your terminology and it's definitely not wrong. Just not used as predominantly. So like you said, in a FS boardslide, the rail will always be in front of you, but a FS 270 to boardslide it'll always be behind you. The only exception is when it's a hardway 270. Again, just talking snowboarding here.

FS 270 Lip still sounds kinda weird to me because lip implies the tail is crossing over the rail first, but it'd actually be the nose.


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## MostWicked (Mar 8, 2012)

So that means there is only:

BS 270 Boardslide
HW BS 270 Boardslide
FS 270 Boardslide
HW FS 270 Boardslide

It's never called a Lipslide.... This makes everything a lot easier but also means 2/3 of the internet is wrong. Because tons of people call it 270 Lipslides.

I wonder whats the official word from judges at Xgames etc. there has to be an official naming right?

I have to put some more research into this.


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## York (Apr 18, 2008)

For spinning 270 ONTO the rail, yes. 2/3rds of the internet may be talking in skateboarding terms which wouldn't be wrong, just confusing. If they're skating though it's obviously the most appropriate way to call it though. 

Spinning off the rail would be different though. Like BS lipslide 270 off. Or take that and add another 180 to the spin on and it'd be hardway BS 270 on 270 off.


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## MostWicked (Mar 8, 2012)

Ok i think i get where you guys are coming from now.

York:

BS (=spin direction) 270 Boardslide
HW (=approach) BS (=spin direction) 270 Boardslide

Casual:

FS (=approach) 270 Lipslide (=backfoot is over the rail when connecting)
HW (=spin direction) FS (=approach) 270 Boardslide (=frontfoot is over the rail when connecting)




Casual said:


> If you said hardway FS 270 Lip that would mean he did a FS 270 on.


Wouldn't that be a HW FS 270 Boardslide since your frontfoot is over the rail when you go into the slide?


Also whats the difference between Snowboarding and Skateboarding regarding 270s on?


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## Casual (Feb 9, 2011)

If your going to say it Yorks way say "FS 270 on" and then name the slide (FS Lip/BS board or w/e).



And ya lol I fucked it up. HW FS 270 board. In skating not many people do 270 on but skaters are pretty anal about calling FS ad BS regarding approach. I guess I've seen both but like I said before you need to say "on" if your calling the spin.


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## Casual (Feb 9, 2011)

I was thinking about this more and really if you name it the way I suggest then hardway becomes irrelavant. There are only 4 tricks.

BS approach:

BS 270 board (you spin BS)
BS 270 lip (you spin FS)

FS approach:

FS 270 board (you spin FS)
FS 270 lip (you spin BS)

Trying to include the Hardway lingo just threw me off haha.


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## MostWicked (Mar 8, 2012)

That makes sense and its pretty close to what i initally thought...

The Approach/Spin thing threw me off though.

To take it one step further with a 450 it would be:

BS approach:

BS 450 lip (you spin BS)
BS 450 board (you spin FS)

FS approach:

FS 450 lip (you spin FS)
FS 450 board (you spin BS)

Right?


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## Krato (Apr 29, 2013)

MostWicked said:


> That makes sense and its pretty close to what i initally thought...
> 
> The Approach/Spin thing threw me off though.
> 
> ...


Correct. Lip just implies hardside (hardway). And it BS or FS just implies spin direction. Anything less than 180 (50-50's and boardslides) refers to approach but everything after refers to the spin. I think... :|


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## Casual (Feb 9, 2011)

MostWicked said:


> That makes sense and its pretty close to what i initally thought...
> 
> The Approach/Spin thing threw me off though.
> 
> ...


This makes sense for me. I mean really list a few tricks. FS Lip, FS 270 Lip... why would you change the way you name it when you really don't have to?


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## York (Apr 18, 2008)

MostWicked said:


> That makes sense and its pretty close to what i initally thought...
> 
> The Approach/Spin thing threw me off though.
> 
> ...


I think you understand it but your terminology is still off. A BS 450 boardslide will never be approached with the rail to your back. That BS means you're spinning BS so the rail is automatically in front of you. When spinning 180+ degrees, the approach designation is dropped because it's unnecessary in order to understand what the trick is.

Look up the Protest Rock a Rail jam and watch that video. It took place a couple weeks ago and the announcers are good.


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## MostWicked (Mar 8, 2012)

Ok guys i took it one step further and made some flowcharts.

The one on the left is Casuals way of naming the tricks, which is also the "skate-way" right? (Is it exactly the same on a Skateboard?)

The one on the right is Yorks way, which is the "snowboard-way".

I think we should accept that there are different ways to name the tricks.

To make it even worse and more complicated i also added Fakie,Switch and Nollie. I really would like to clear this up and make a working flowchart for both ways. Any input is welcome and im sure i fucked up a couple times, so lets discuss. Thanks for your help.

So here we go:


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## PanHandler (Dec 23, 2010)

Casuals way is correct.


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## York (Apr 18, 2008)

Wow you are quite the perfectionist! That looks like it took quite a while to make. And it's pretty much perfect!

I don't really use "fakie" since it's a skating term not really used in snowboarding. So for example on the far right the blue "fakie FS 270" I'd just call a switch BS 270 off the nose. Thinking about fakie is just confusing. Most people would just call it the same thing as the trick popped off the tail, except say "off the nose".

Regarding Panhandler's comment, either he is a skater that uses skate (original to be respectful) terms for snowboarding, or misunderstood your diagram. Apparently he doesn't even accept there are two ways to name snowboarding tricks. Again though, the skating nomenclature is unorthodox now.


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## Casual (Feb 9, 2011)

PanHandler said:


> Casuals way is correct.


I'm not saying my way is correct or not, but it sure is simpler and sticks with the original method of naming tricks instead of changing everything when you do a 270.

FYI - I polled a skateboarding forum and I got the same 50-50 split. Some name it to the spin and some name it to the approach so I don't feel there is a definitive answer.

One answer I got on the skate forum that made me really think is a guy said "just like a BS 180 Nose Grind"... You approch that FS... I do that trick and I call it that haha. So ya, that really messed me up. Nobody calls that trick a FS 180 Nose grind or a BS 180 on nose grind or a bs 180 switch 5.0 lol.. it's just a bs 180 nose grind.

BTW - these charts are instense haha, love it.


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