# Decided on shovel, pack, beacon now need a probe?



## snowvols (Apr 16, 2008)

Black Diamond QuickDraw Guide Probe 300 from Backcountry.com

This is what I have. I went with a 3m probe for easier time reading depths. If I wanted to dig a pit down to the ground just less marking and easier to see depth of snowpack. The snowpack was fat last year for sure and I am a firm believer I would rather have over kill if I was trying to find someone in case there was a really deep burial.


----------



## hikeswithdogs (Sep 23, 2011)

snowvols said:


> Black Diamond QuickDraw Guide Probe 300 from Backcountry.com
> 
> This is what I have. I went with a 3m probe for easier time reading depths. If I wanted to dig a pit down to the ground just less marking and easier to see depth of snowpack. The snowpack was fat last year for sure and I am a firm believer I would rather have over kill if I was trying to find someone in case there was a really deep burial.


Wow based on the reviews it seems to be a popular probe and it's priced right, would be cool if it had the alternate segment colors like the G3 poles but not really necessary I guess.

Unless someone comes up with something better I think I'll make an appearance at the backcountry storefront so I can just pick it up in person, or order online and then do in store pickup or whatever.


----------



## snowvols (Apr 16, 2008)

You can get it there, the BD store close to 33rd, or any REI.


----------



## hikeswithdogs (Sep 23, 2011)

snowvols said:


> You can get it there, the BD store close to 33rd, or any REI.



Blows my mind to think stores actually stock this stuff there, coming from the Midwest finding anything like this or even high end gear in a store is impossible.

Thanks again


----------



## killclimbz (Aug 10, 2007)

300cm probe is pretty ideal for most places. I think mine is a 265 so I should be one to talk. Though the next one I buy is going to be a 300cm probe. 

BD, G3, Ortovox all make probes I like. I like ones that are pull and lock. The screw down ones are alright, but I find them more time consuming than they need to be considering the circumstance you might be using it for.


----------



## hikeswithdogs (Sep 23, 2011)

killclimbz said:


> 300cm probe is pretty ideal for most places. I think mine is a 265 so I should be one to talk. Though the next one I buy is going to be a 300cm probe.
> 
> BD, G3, Ortovox all make probes I like. I like ones that are pull and lock. The screw down ones are alright, but I find them more time consuming than they need to be considering the circumstance you might be using it for.


Yea forget about the old screw in models, killclimz will be messaging you about the Pieps from Patroller too hope to buy in the next couple weeks.


----------



## killclimbz (Aug 10, 2007)

You can use that patroller supply deal for probes too btw.

I am probably going to get one of these for this season.

The Ortovox 320 PFA

Or the Ortovox 320 Pro Steel. 

The pro steel is heavier but it's also much more durable. It's also got a new assembly lock which may or may not be better than the PFA. I am using a PFA probe right now and it works pretty great. Chances are I'll get the PFA 320 as it's lighter by a decent margin.


----------



## bravo_castle (Aug 16, 2007)

I have the Ortovox 320 PFA (purchased from patroller supply).

I think it's easy to deploy, isn't (overly) heavy, & I highly recommend it.


----------



## Triple8Sol (Nov 24, 2008)

I think a 300 is a good idea. I went with the BCA SR3


----------



## hikeswithdogs (Sep 23, 2011)

Got my Pieps DSP(the new one) with a 30% off coupon at Back county so I was pretty stoked about that gonna go use it at Solitude proactice area next week before I start my backcountry class Brighton next week. Also have volunteered to buried in snow to assist with avalanche dog training so excited about that!


----------



## GnarlyCharlie (Dec 6, 2011)

hikeswithdogs said:


> Ordered my black Avalung Bandit pack and K2 rescue shovel from EVO should be here friday, going to order my Pieps DSP when I get to SLC but what about a probe?
> 
> 
> Is 300cm necessary for Utah Snowpack?
> ...


I've got the BCA SR3, I like it because it has etched depth markings rather than printed and it's light weight. I know you didn't ask about a transceiver, but I'd look into a mammut Pulse, I have one and they are so easy to use, expensive but worth it.


----------



## skian (Dec 14, 2011)

If i were you, I would just buy a standard 240 probe. People talk about the need for 300's but the bottom line in this is a worst case product. Do you really dig detailed pits? Marked 300 then, Do you train with it? 300 then. Really a 300 or 320 just helps save your back when practicing for the seen. I teach this seen and sell it. I recommend a 240 Aluminum and you take your girl out to dinner with the extra cash you save.


----------



## killclimbz (Aug 10, 2007)

skian said:


> If i were you, I would just buy a standard 240 probe. People talk about the need for 300's but the bottom line in this is a worst case product. Do you really dig detailed pits? Marked 300 then, Do you train with it? 300 then. Really a 300 or 320 just helps save your back when practicing for the seen. I teach this seen and sell it. I recommend a 240 Aluminum and you take your girl out to dinner with the extra cash you save.


I disagree with you whole heartedly. There have been several rescues in the last 10 years where the 300cm probe made the difference. The last one I remember being at Baker. 3 maybe 4 years ago. Snowboarder got buried and got buried deep. I think it was off of chair 8(?) where at times you are required to have full avy gear and a partner. His partner could not locate him. Two other skiers came upon this located the buried person with their beacons and got a probe strike at the very end of the reach of their 300cm probe. They managed to dig the guy out alive. 

Take it for what you will, but in deeper snow packs I recommend a 300cm probe. The weight penalty is negligible compared to the heart ache if you actually need one.


----------



## skian (Dec 14, 2011)

killclimbz said:


> I disagree with you whole heartedly. There have been several rescues in the last 10 years where the 300cm probe made the difference. The last one I remember being at Baker. 3 maybe 4 years ago. Snowboarder got buried and got buried deep. I think it was off of chair 8(?) where at times you are required to have full avy gear and a partner. His partner could not locate him. Two other skiers came upon this located the buried person with their beacons and got a probe strike at the very end of the reach of their 300cm probe. They managed to dig the guy out alive.
> 
> Take it for what you will, but in deeper snow packs I recommend a 300cm probe. The weight penalty is negligible compared to the heart ache if you actually need one.


Beauty of the web, Everyone is entitle to their opinion. I think your scenario is a very limited one. Also would like to see that report. Glad it made a difference but for the common BC skier think its overkill. Do you know what the probability in a rescue deeper than 3m is?


----------



## killclimbz (Aug 10, 2007)

Since it is not a death, I can not pull a report from the avalanche database. Only the CAIC maintains reports for Colorado that include close calls.

Do a search at TGR in the forums. Baker burial or Baker avalanche should pull it up. 

Avalanche debris in maritime and intercontinental climates can bury deep. How is it overkill to have a 300cm probe? 2 ounces? The weight penalty as I said is negligible and if you run into the situation where you need it, you'll be glad you had it.


----------



## skian (Dec 14, 2011)

Look I respect your view, over the last 20 year i have developed a different one. I am in full agreement that a beacon probe and shovel are essential tools along with your brain from education which is really the key to safety not the tools or length of them. First is education, then If you just have a beacon evac can take 1-2 hours add a shovel cut that in half add a probe cut that in half. All four together are essential. There is no where out there to support necessity of a 300 over a 240 for the average bc rider. Avalanches suck only when you throw a human in there. One statistic we should all be looking at out there is how many of those human triggered slides where done when the conditions were not favorable. These tools are nothing if you don't know how to use them properly. Freak accident or not people need to learn to follow their skin tracks back instead of just jumping in. LIke to hear somebody way in that one has ever dug down three meters in an ablation zone and how long it took them and two can find some support to back your statement. Nothing wrong with carrying a 240. It's having the tool and knowing how to use it that is important.


----------



## killclimbz (Aug 10, 2007)

After working with several of the best professionals in the business. Ben Pritchard, Ethan Greene, Hacksaw, and others. I'll take their opinion. I think a 240cm probe is better than not having one. I don't agree with your generalization. Everything we bring out into the backcountry safety wise, is for the worst case scenario, when all else fails.

As far as for the report. The Northwest avalanche center does have a write up for it. You can read the PDF here. The first hand report which goes into more detail located on TGR here.

Without a 300cm probe, the victim would have likely been dead. You are telling me that these "casual backcountry users" shouldn't have been carrying a 300cm probe? This is why your statement is a dangerous generalization.

A 240cm probe is appropriate for a continental climate. You can argue it's okay for an intermountain climate. For a Maritime climate, a 300 cm probe is much more appropriate...


----------



## skian (Dec 14, 2011)

I work with professionals to but don't feel the need to name drop here. You have turned a "what is your opinion" personal. We can go back and forth all day long. All those guys are sharp and also know their stuff. I know a few of those names. You have your opinion and I have mine. Carry your 300 I'll stick with my 240 unless im doing pit work. Light is right weight is great. Makes no difference Maritime, Continental or other. YOU DONT NEED A THREE HUNDRED in real world scenarios. Man glad we didn't get into a discussion on whether you need a D handle shovel or not. That could of got out of control. You be safe out there. I think we can let this one go.


----------



## Sick-Pow (May 5, 2008)

killclimz let something go? that is funny.

240 for me in CO.

if i was back in tahoe, 300 minimum not this month though.....ha!~


----------



## killclimbz (Aug 10, 2007)

I linked you to a "real" world scenario. I don't agree with sick-pow very often, but he's dead on in his scenario.

I don't use D handle shovels btw. Doesn't fit well in my pack. I want a shovel I am going to be able to use...


----------



## killclimbz (Aug 10, 2007)

Sick-Pow said:


> killclimz let something go? that is funny.


Hey pot, kettle over here...


----------



## skian (Dec 14, 2011)

I'm done with this one. You be safe out there. Hope you never need a 360.


----------



## killclimbz (Aug 10, 2007)

skian said:


> I'm done with this one. You be safe out there. Hope you never need a 360.


Me too...:thumbsup:


----------

