# Body rotation - yes or no?



## yossi01 (Jul 30, 2017)

When you start snowboard of courae you focus on keeping your body and shoulders aligned with the board.

but i saw some videos of ryan knapton, great carver, and he says to keep the body stable downhill, aka in a plus position (shoulders and board creates a plus sign).

Also, I saw some videos of extreme carving in youtube and they are very good carvers as well, and they say that on frontside turn your body should be aligned and on backside turn rotated to a plus symbol.

I find it easier for me to carve like ryan knapton suggests, with counter-rotation. but is there a more correct method than the others?


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## chomps1211 (Mar 30, 2011)

You might find some insight & answers to your question in this thread,...

*Good riders,.. Bad form?*


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

Open vs aligned has several aspects to it. No wrong or right... different styles, different background, and different skill level. E.g. when you see ppl riding well with open body position, check their stance first; they may have +/+ angles and not duck, and as such ride with a general fwd body position. Probably the case with the extreme carving vids you saw. OTOH, with a heavy duck stance, I could imagine that shoulders in open position may be a hinderance and "bad habit" as the upper body gets twisted to an extent where you're hardly in a well balanced position anymore, lose motion range of hind leg, but not everyone has a steep hind angle. There's not _one_ correct stance, there's not _one_ correct style. Depends on the pitch of the slope, the type of turn, the speed, the stance or if you aim to do your turns with the shoulders, hip, knee or ankles whether or not an open or aligned position is favourable.

However, if you're a noob and have your board set up in a more or less symetrical duck stance like it's common nowadays, I can understand that instructors teach you that fwd orientation is a bad habit, because at that stage - not yet able to move all body parts independently - it is easier to stay balanced if aligned. (If you'd have +/+ angles, they'd teach you something else). 

With more days on the slopes, you begin to get a independent motion of all limbs and can begin to use different alignments for different situations. E.g. I've a very mild duck stance and shift between fwd and aligned alla time. Aligned if cruising, for short turns on narrow tracks, jumps, but as soon as I ride more downhill oriented i.e. pointing it, hitting moguls, or doing turns at steeper pitch, I'm in a fwd oriented position as there is more weight shifted to the front leg. For carving wide turns, I use rotation of the shoulders to introduce the carve. Very generally said, I feel more securely balanced if aligned, but more quick/light footed if fwd oriented.


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## 151354 (Aug 1, 2017)

COmplicated

Dont over rotate as a beginner


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## SkullAndXbones (Feb 24, 2014)

in my opinion, counter rotating is bad. it may not be a huge deal for beginners but once you start riding steeper terrain it will become a problem. lean into your turns more.


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## SGboarder (Jun 24, 2012)

SkullAndXbones said:


> in my opinion, counter rotating is bad. it may not be a huge deal for beginners but once you start riding steeper terrain it will become a problem. lean into your turns more.


We are not really talking about counter-rotation. Rather about an open upper body as 'base' position. There is nothing wrong with that per se (and a bunch of the big mountain, ultra steep bombers ride this way) but it has the drawback of potentially making other aspects of proper technique harder to learn and/or inducing certain bad habits. That is why the basic curricula these days start with the 'cereal box' concept. Once other parts of proper riding technique are established, it is perfectly fine to ride with an open upper body (and it even has some benefits).


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## SkullAndXbones (Feb 24, 2014)

SGboarder said:


> We are not really talking about counter-rotation. Rather about an open upper body as 'base' position. There is nothing wrong with that per se (and a bunch of the big mountain, ultra steep bombers ride this way) but it has the drawback of potentially making other aspects of proper technique harder to learn and/or inducing certain bad habits. That is why the basic curricula these days start with the 'cereal box' concept. Once other parts of proper riding technique are established, it is perfectly fine to ride with an open upper body (and it even has some benefits).


oh, my mistake. i thought he meant he was counter rotating to turn or carve. i don't see a problem with opening your shoulders a little either.


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## ekb18c (Mar 11, 2013)

I think you will get many different opinions on this. When I rode aligned I was told to open my shoulder more. Then when I rode with my shoulder opened more, i was told to keep my shoulder aligned. Different people will tell you different things and i think you just have to find what is comfortable with you and your style.


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## Gregory (Jun 18, 2017)

Different schools use different methodologies. Majority of schools around the world teach both drift and carving turns with shoulder rotation (+ on back edge, - on front edge). Instructors of New Zealand have a high speed carving in a + position in their highest level, but elsewhere shoulder rotation is present. Swiss teach drift turns with rotation however remove it when they teach to carve. Just a few systems suggest that shoulder rotation is a mistake, just as in the system I was taught in, but that's oriented towards carving in + stance, with forward binding angles, with a racing (hardboards) as a final goal, however I find it easier to teach carving without shoulder rotation.
When we are locked into carve we can rotate our shoulders without affecting the trajectory of the board, and in my opinion you should be able to do carving turns with shoulder rotation, without shoulder rotation (+ stance) as well as shoulder rotation that is independant from the phase of the turn (just don't turn your shoulders when changing the edge to avoid affecting direction of your board).


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