# How to read forward lean angles on some bindings?



## ig88 (Jan 3, 2012)

Hello everybody.

I have been reading some threads here on forward leans of bindings in the forum. I have come across people mentioning that theirs are set at 8 degrees or at some other precise settings. I wonder if it’s because my bindings (presumably Burton Mission EST as per the words on them) are not the most expensive ones out there, hence they don’t give any indication (degrees) of how far backward or forward the backs are leaned. I guess the only way I could tell how mine are set is purely from some rough eyeballing.

In the picture, the white arrows point to the plus sign (add forward lean) and the minus sign (reduce forward lean), into which direction you would turn the black plastic lever (indicated by yellow arrow) to alter lean angle.

Any boarders out there with similar bindings could kindly tell me how they measure or quote their bindings’ lean angles when they talk about the issue with friends?

Many thanks.


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## ETM (Aug 11, 2009)

If you really car get an angle finder or sliding bevel and take a reading.


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## timmytard (Mar 19, 2009)

ig88 said:


> Hello everybody.
> 
> I have been reading some threads here on forward leans of bindings in the forum. I have come across people mentioning that theirs are set at 8 degrees or at some other precise settings. I wonder if it’s because my bindings (presumably Burton Mission EST as per the words on them) are not the most expensive ones out there, hence they don’t give any indication (degrees) of how far backward or forward the backs are leaned. I guess the only way I could tell how mine are set is purely from some rough eyeballing.
> 
> ...


It isn't a matter of which way will alter it.
It turns both ways, the only way it won't turn both ways is, if it is at the farthest setting one way. Then it will only go the other direction.

The precise angle doesn't really mean shit. If it will only turn one way, it is probably @ the least amount of forward lean possible. 
Just turn it, you will be able to see it change as you do it.

Having more forward lean will let you carve heel side much more powerfully.
It's a finicky thing though, it will feel weird @ first. You only need to do it a little bit @ a time.

@ first it makes you feel like you going to catch a toe side edge & eat shit, but that goes away really quick, like +or- an hour & then you will start to feel the benefits.

Then it's just a matter of dialing it in to exactly how you want it.

Hope that's a little more helpful.

TT


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## ig88 (Jan 3, 2012)

Thanks ETM. I get your idea. I wonder if I should get a protractor to read the lean angles rather than just saying "somewhere in between". Or perhaps the whole issue is just a feel thing hence nobody needs to quote precise angles. 

Thanks timmytard. I have remembered the default setting before I dial the lever either way and see what it does to the lean angle. There is a gross difference of the lean at both extremes, that is, most forward and least forward lean. I think I understand how the lever works and what is more forward lean, or less forward lean. timmytard I understand your concerns for me and I think I am ok with those.

Your further elaboration is a very good reiteration to what I have been reading up on forward lean the last few days in the forum.

My question is,

1.) When someone says their lean angles are say, precisely 8 degrees, did they get the reading from some sophisticated markings which could be present on their bindings and not on mine? 

2.) Since I never paid attention to lean angles in my last season, hence I declare I have never fiddled with them. But obviously next season round, most probably I will, but in small steps. And obviously, as I stated above, at the extremes of either most forward lean and least forward lean, even simple eyeballing could tell the gross difference. But what about, the in-betweens, does a single full rotation of the lever, going either direction from the default setting (when I got them from the shop), is going to make a very noticeable difference to the feel, board aggressiveness during carving, heelside edge hold and whatnot? Has anybody played around with just a single rotation of the lever and noticed any significant difference? Just my curiosity.

Thanks everybody.


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## snowklinger (Aug 30, 2011)

ig88 said:


> 1.) When someone says their lean angles are say, precisely 8 degrees, did they get the reading from some sophisticated markings which could be present on their bindings and not on mine?


This person is a nerd who should be ignored - nobody runs around talking about their highback binding angles. Are they throwing corks and then talking about this 8 degree highback, thus convincing you that you are missing something? Follow the 'Tard's advice and do them comfy.



ig88 said:


> 2.) Since I never paid attention to lean angles in my last season, hence I declare I have never fiddled with them. But obviously next season round, most probably I will, but in small steps. And obviously, as I stated above, at the extremes of either most forward lean and least forward lean, even simple eyeballing could tell the gross difference. But what about, the in-betweens, does a single full rotation of the lever, going either direction from the default setting (when I got them from the shop), is going to make a very noticeable difference to the feel, board aggressiveness during carving, heelside edge hold and whatnot? Has anybody played around with just a single rotation of the lever and noticed any significant difference? Just my curiosity.


You are overthinking this. Most highbacks have a little notched deal with like 4-8 different notches you can set your lean at. On some of these they might be marked with degrees - who the fuck cares. In the case of your Burtons with the little dial, the dial is simply a more organic function of the exact same thing. Still do what Timmy said.

Don't make us come wipe for you :cheeky4:


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## ig88 (Jan 3, 2012)

Thanks snowklinger. Got it. Yes I might have been overthinking it.

Then I won't bother with pinpointing what precise angles the backs are leaned. I will just go with what feels great.


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## timmytard (Mar 19, 2009)

ig88 said:


> Thanks snowklinger. Got it. Yes I might have been overthinking it.
> 
> Then I won't bother with pinpointing what precise angles the backs are leaned. I will just go with what feels great.


Have you rotated the high backs yet?

TT


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## ig88 (Jan 3, 2012)

timmytard said:


> Have you rotated the high backs yet?
> 
> TT


Hi there timmytard. Very nice indeed to know you are concerned about my problems.

No I have not really touched them yet (at home). To reiterate, I think I understand how the lever/ dial works and how they increase or reduce forward lean. I think I am going to play with them and see how much of a difference they make to my heelside edge hold. I admit I had some problems trying to get a decent heelside edge hold on some icy steep slopes in Korea at the end of March this year. Korea is notorious for lack of powder and towards late March the icy snow was even defrosting and you would actually see water on the slopes.

If by what you mean rotating the high backs mean increasing the forward lean, well, I have not done a thing yet. I will do so on the slopes, hopefully as early as December.

Meanwhile I just want to have a better understanding of how forward lean could affect rides before doing the practicals on the real slopes. I just hope I will be able to learn some physics here and then I will see if those physics put to good use would improve my problems on heelside edge hold on some steep icy slopes. Cheers timmytard.


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## snowklinger (Aug 30, 2011)

ig88 said:


> Hi there timmytard. Very nice indeed to know you are concerned about my problems.
> 
> No I have not really touched them yet (at home). To reiterate, I think I understand how the lever/ dial works and how they increase or reduce forward lean. I think I am going to play with them and see how much of a difference they make to my heelside edge hold. I admit I had some problems trying to get a decent heelside edge hold on some icy steep slopes in Korea at the end of March this year. Korea is notorious for lack of powder and towards late March the icy snow was even defrosting and you would actually see water on the slopes.
> 
> ...


This is what he means by rotating the highbacks:










When they are up, the highbacks themselves should run parallel with the board edge. Almost all highbacks can be rotated to some degree.


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## hktrdr (Apr 3, 2012)

snowklinger said:


> This is what he means by rotating the highbacks:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


And people are debating the benefit of highback rotation/lack thereof with almost religious zeal...


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## snowklinger (Aug 30, 2011)

hktrdr said:


> And people are debating the benefit of highback rotation/lack thereof with almost religious zeal...


I'm not sure its that big of a deal either. I like playing with my bindings like adult legos tho.


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## ig88 (Jan 3, 2012)

snowklinger said:


> This is what he means by rotating the highbacks:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thank you snowklinger for kindly pointing out what I misunderstood about rotating the highbacks. Lovely ...... I am going to learn some new stuff today with the help of some nice diagrams too.

Now I have a problem. I cannot spot any difference in the two boards as well as the orientation of the bindings in the diagram, even though the red construction lines are angled differently. My bad eyes cannot tell what the diagram is trying to depict. The 2 boards look pretty much the same to me. snowklinger could you kindly give me a little more description? Cheers snowklinger.


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## snowklinger (Aug 30, 2011)

Its kind of a crappy diagram but I could find it quickest. If you look at where your highback attaches to the heel loop - 2points of contact. You should be able to rotate the highback within the heel loop. There are usually 3-4 positions or holes u can move those 2 points of contact. Now you can see that in the different positions, the highback will rotate around the heel cup. If you ride an average "duck" stance of say 15degrees on both the front and back foot, and just slap your bindings on in the default highback attachment, they will probably look like the top diagram. Looking down at your board on the floor, the highbacks when up, will not run with the edge of the board but crooked. Now try rotating them so that they run parallel to the edge of the board.

Make sense?


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## ig88 (Jan 3, 2012)

snowklinger said:


> Make sense?


Not yet. I am reading your description closely to fully digest it. Give me a little time. I will hold my bindings in my own hands and work out what you mean by heel loop and heel cup. I am learning but this one seems not as easy to understand as forward lean apparently. The minute I read someone explaining what forward lean is, I guess I got the gist of it. I would love to appreciate what rotating highbacks are all about ...... but I am ...... just not there yet.

Is this heel cup thing present in all bindings? You sure I could also find it in mine?

I will get back to this topic/ thread later after some reflections

Cheers snowklinger.


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## 509-pow (Feb 22, 2011)

if this dosnt make sense idk what will. haha. the house videos on youtube have been a great help to me. hope it helps u too.
rotation
Snowboard Binding Setup: Part 9- Highback Rotation - YouTube


and lean.
Snowoard Binding Setup Par 10- Forward Lean - YouTube


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## ig88 (Jan 3, 2012)

Thanks snowklinger and 509-pow for the efforts. I think I got it now. I think the first youtube link in 509-pow's post well explained it. I just realize that that's one setting I could (I never knew) change, and it appears it could be changed either way too, that is, either more parallel, or more unparallel.

May I assume that if I say "rotated the high backs", that would mean rotated the high backs to more parallel?

What would happen if the high backs are parallel, and how does that tie in with forward lean?

Cheers.


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## 509-pow (Feb 22, 2011)

yes the high back should be paralle, but i do not keep mine paralle. i just got used to it how it is. i believe that it helps with heel side turning but i have no idea. 
how this ties in with forward lean idk. my bindings are burton cartels and they come with zero lean. just the way i like it.
maybe this will help with that.
What is Forward Lean on Snowboard Bindings? - The House Boardshop


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## timmytard (Mar 19, 2009)

ig88 said:


> Thank you snowklinger for kindly pointing out what I misunderstood about rotating the highbacks. Lovely ...... I am going to learn some new stuff today with the help of some nice diagrams too.
> 
> Now I have a problem. I cannot spot any difference in the two boards as well as the orientation of the bindings in the diagram, even though the red construction lines are angled differently. My bad eyes cannot tell what the diagram is trying to depict. The 2 boards look pretty much the same to me. snowklinger could you kindly give me a little more description? Cheers snowklinger.


The diagram should have pics that are more exaggerated, so that you can see the difference.

Some people don't really need to rotate them, it depends on how much of an angle the bindings are set @. I usually only do my front foot because it's @ a sharper angle than my back foot. They rotate in both directions because some people still ride with their bindings like this. ( / / ) mine are close to this ( l / ) that's why I only need to do my front foot. If you ride with a severe duck stance like so ( \ / ) then it would be wise to adjust both of them.

I purposely asked if you had rotated them, & gave very little info about what I was talking about just to see if you could figure it out on your own.
I think it helps you understand your bindings better if you fiddle with them yourself & learn how they work.

I just didn't think all these Donney Do-gooders were gonna jump in & explain it for me. Thanks Donney Do-gooders:cheeky4:

I have a few pairs of Burton bindings, 3 are the old style forward lean adjusters & 1 pair is the new type like yours.
The old style of Burton forward lean adjustment seems to brake very easily, I have 3 pair, so 6 bindings. All 6 adjusters are broken. 

I am able to adjust the forward lean, but I have to use the rotating adjustment to do it. It works on the new style(yours) as well.

When you have the rotating adjustment loosened so that it moves freely & you have it where you think you want it. If you slide both of them a couple notches forward(not rotationally) towards the toe side of your board it will decrease your forward lean & sliding them back a couple notches will increase it. 

I'm not sure it was designed to be able to do that or not, but it does work. 

TT


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## ig88 (Jan 3, 2012)

timmytard said:


> The diagram should have pics that are more exaggerated, so that you can see the difference.
> 
> Some people don't really need to rotate them, it depends on how much of an angle the bindings are set @. I usually only do my front foot because it's @ a sharper angle than my back foot. They rotate in both directions because some people still ride with their bindings like this. ( / / ) mine are close to this ( l / ) that's why I only need to do my front foot. If you ride with a severe duck stance like so ( \ / ) then it would be wise to adjust both of them.
> 
> ...


Oh timmytard you've kindly made your next post just a tad earlier than me. Guess what, during the last few hours, I think I have watched enough youtube to understand what rotating highbacks is all about. There are some good videos out there but actually one good video was adequate to explain this interesting entity. I think I can confidently let you know now that I fully understand what it is, even though I have not yet had the opportunity to vary it and feel it on the slopes.

Guess what, I never had a clue those screws were meant for adjustment of highback rotations. Now it's like I were revisiting my bindings as though they were some new toys haha. 

But many thanks for the elaboration and your kind intention. Actually I was trying to post back before your possible next post, just to ask you again ...... now I have figured out what highback rotations are all about in the classroom, how does it, if at all, relate to forward lean.

Actually I have got some idea already from the youtube videos on highback rotations. One short video says that rotating the highbacks will improve your heelside response. If you would agree with that, then I suppose rotating the highbacks will complement increasing the forward lean. And because of this alleged relationship, one could potentially ease up on cranking up way too much forward lean for the purpose of increasing heelside edge hold/ response. The problem with too much forward lean as I have read will hurt our calves.

Oh yes. And my belated answer to your earlier question if I had rotated my highbacks ...... obviously, haha, no I have not. But I sure will have one more parameter to look into next time I hit the slopes.

When I read you description of bindings with the alleged stance ( / / ), it really got me wondering who would use that. I bet the high speed alpine boarders. Cheers timmytard.


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## timmytard (Mar 19, 2009)

ig88 said:


> Oh timmytard you've kindly made your next post just a tad earlier than me. Guess what, during the last few hours, I think I have watched enough youtube to understand what rotating highbacks is all about. There are some good videos out there but actually one good video was adequate to explain this interesting entity. I think I can confidently let you know now that I fully understand what it is, even though I have not yet had the opportunity to vary it and feel it on the slopes.
> 
> Guess what, I never had a clue those screws were meant for adjustment of highback rotations. Now it's like I were revisiting my bindings as though they were some new toys haha.
> 
> ...


My pleasure, my good man.
Ya, I knew you wouldn't have a clue what I was talking about, thanks for not taking offense to my little test.
I couldn't be happier than to explain that too someone who clearly wants to know.

The Rotating of the binding doesn't have anything to do with the forward lean aspect of it really. 
Now a days the size of the highback is so monstrous. They used to be miniscule, about the height of a hiking boot. If you couldn't rotate it, it starts to get in the way & prevents your leg from moving laterally.

Not all people need that much lateral movement though, very few really.
There is just such a large variety of styles. 

Some park rats really tweak out their boards & half pipe guys like crazy forward lean.

It's just easier to make an adjustable binding, rather than a separate different one. 

Here is a picture that might explain why things are the way they are.

Damien Sanders: Hard boot tweaker.

TT


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## HoboMaster (May 16, 2010)

Monkey with it until it feels right, completely depends on personal comfort / riding style. I've tried rotating my highbacks and didn't really notice a difference (or didn't like the difference... can't remember).


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## ig88 (Jan 3, 2012)

timmytard. Got it. Thanks for another very useful reply.

HoBoMaster. You are right. Everything depends. Snowboarding is not nanoscience. Go with feel and have a great run out there.


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