# GORETEX VS 20,000, HORSEFEATHERS VS VOLCOM. Anyone used horsefeathers?



## frankyfc (Aug 11, 2017)

I ride in europe mainly, also japan this year. Like to have decent waterproofing but never sure how much i actually need. 

I like bold colours for riding as means my buddies can keep up/find me. 
Ideally i want a bright yellow/gold coloured jacket as i think they're dope and they go with my camo pant. Only one like that i can find this year online is:

hector jacket | Horsefeathers® custom clothing
20.000MM WATERPROOF
15.000GM BREATHABLE
Horsefeathers seems to be a small brand thats coming up and has decent riders with them. 

My alternative jacket is technically "better" and i was given it last year.
Volcom TDS inf goretex jacket
Tds Inf Gore-Tex Jacket - in the cyan blue colour.

My question is - will i notice much difference between the goretex volcom and the horsefeathers 20/15k? The Horsefeathers is worth about $300, the volcom $500. could sell volcom and buy the other. I'm way more stoked on the looks of the yellow one but if the volcom functions way better i'll stick with it. 

Also are non-goretex jackets usually heavier than goretex? the volcom is super light, my old bonfire 30k waterproofing shell was way heavier and had no insulation. No idea what the horsefeathers will be like. Also if i keep volcom jacket feel i have to keep the pants too to use zip tech, but not a huge fan of volcom pants.

Thanks guys!

TLDR - Horsefeathers opinions? do i need goretex? is it lighter? do i go with the better "tech" jacket or the one i prefer and are more stoked on?


----------



## linvillegorge (Jul 6, 2009)

Depends on which Gore-Tex the jacket is using. Gore-Tex is 28k waterproof. The difference is in the breathability. Breathability ranges from 15k up to 25k.

You won't notice a difference between 28k/15k vs. 20k/15k but if it's G-T 3L Pro with 25k breathability you very well could notice that.

Honestly, if you're way more stoked on the Horsefeathers jacket, I'd just get it.


----------



## frankyfc (Aug 11, 2017)

linvillegorge said:


> Depends on which Gore-Tex the jacket is using. Gore-Tex is 28k waterproof. The difference is in the breathability. Breathability ranges from 15k up to 25k.
> 
> You won't notice a difference between 28k/15k vs. 20k/15k but if it's G-T 3L Pro with 25k breathability you very well could notice that.
> 
> Honestly, if you're way more stoked on the Horsefeathers jacket, I'd just get it.


Looks like 20k breathability from what i could tell - which seems pretty good?
I had the black tds inf volcom jacket last season, has a few annoying things about it and the colour scratched off quite easily but it kept me dry and is super light. Ziptech was also pretty awesome. 

My worry with the horsefeathers is weight, lack of zip tech and reduced waterproofing. Having had zip tech i don't miss having snow down my ass... although guess i could consider a bib...


----------



## linvillegorge (Jul 6, 2009)

20k is plenty of waterproofing. Don't fret about 28k vs. 20k. 20k vs. 15k breathability? Meh, basically a push too. Weight? Meh, I doubt there's enough of a difference to matter. Maybe if you're skinning for miles in the backcountry, but if you're riding lifts at the resort a few ounces in your jacket aren't going to matter.


----------



## freshy (Nov 18, 2009)

Personally I would not go down to 15K unless it was significantly discounted, in a colour way that I couldn't live without, or I accidently looked at the wrong tags and came home with it and went riding and noticed later it was only 15K not the 30K I thought I grabbed.


----------



## frankyfc (Aug 11, 2017)

linvillegorge said:


> 20k is plenty of waterproofing. Don't fret about 28k vs. 20k. 20k vs. 15k breathability? Meh, basically a push too. Weight? Meh, I doubt there's enough of a difference to matter. Maybe if you're skinning for miles in the backcountry, but if you're riding lifts at the resort a few ounces in your jacket aren't going to matter.





freshy said:


> Personally I would not go down to 15K unless it was significantly discounted, in a colour way that I couldn't live without, or I accidently looked at the wrong tags and came home with it and went riding and noticed later it was only 15K not the 30K I thought I grabbed.


Are you meaning waterproofing?? rare to see a breathability of 30k. 
The jacket in question is 20k/15k vs my actual current jacket of 28k/20k...


----------



## SGboarder (Jun 24, 2012)

frankyfc said:


> The jacket in question is 20k/15k vs my actual current jacket of 28k/20k...


Not meaningful. You won't be able to tell any difference.
And with insulated jackets breathability ratings are pretty pointless/not comparable anyway.

A couple of things that about the jackets that you might wanna consider:
- Both the have sown in wrist gaitors. Those have both fans and detractors and if you're the latter chances are will not be happy (I hate them and would never buy a jacket that has wrist gaitors).
- Mesh backing for the pit zips. Again both jackets have this but unless you fall a lot I would not recommend it.


----------



## frankyfc (Aug 11, 2017)

SGboarder said:


> Not meaningful. You won't be able to tell any difference.
> And with insulated jackets breathability ratings are pretty pointless/not comparable anyway.
> 
> A couple of things that about the jackets that you might wanna consider:
> ...


You mean that insulation stops it being breathable?
The volcom fancies itself as having insulation zones in the bodies cold spots yada yada.... so think it keeps you warm with less weight and more breathability. Most likely marketing nonsense but who knows.

And waterproofing - pretty sure i won't be able to get wet through 20k so should be fine.
The weight/constriction issue puts me off... 3l c-knit goretex has that on its side. Super light and flexible, no idea what horsefeathers "ultratech" is like.

Wrist gaiters i like, why do you hate them? My old jackets didn't have them, newer ones do... for eurocarves they're sweet.


----------



## freshy (Nov 18, 2009)

frankyfc said:


> Are you meaning waterproofing?? rare to see a breathability of 30k.
> The jacket in question is 20k/15k vs my actual current jacket of 28k/20k...


Nope I remembered it as 20/30, but apprently it's 20/40K. The Rip Curl Gum series https://www.ripcurl.com.au/mens/mountainwear/clothing/search-pro-gum-jacket.html


----------



## frankyfc (Aug 11, 2017)

freshy said:


> frankyfc said:
> 
> 
> > Are you meaning waterproofing?? rare to see a breathability of 30k.
> ...


That's your jacket you mean?
That's very rare to have ratings like that, never really see it with other brands. Probably very unnecessary I imagine?


----------



## SGboarder (Jun 24, 2012)

frankyfc said:


> You mean that insulation stops it being breathable?
> The volcom fancies itself as having insulation zones in the bodies cold spots yada yada.... so think it keeps you warm with less weight and more breathability. Most likely marketing nonsense but who knows.


Insulation interferes with breathability - different types to different degrees and the more insulation the worse for breathability all things equal. Zonal insulation does help is a compromise.



frankyfc said:


> And waterproofing - pretty sure i won't be able to get wet through 20k so should be fine.
> The weight/constriction issue puts me off... 3l c-knit goretex has that on its side. Super light and flexible, no idea what horsefeathers "ultratech" is like.


20k waterproofing is plenty even for riding in the rain. In general people do not get wet much from water penetrating through the fabric but more either from inside (sweat that does not evaporate) or because moisture gets in around the neck, through the sleeves, etc.
3L goretex construction is fine but does not tell you anything about durability - that depends on the face fabric. Also, the Cknit backer wears faster/is less durable than a regular 'hard' third laminate layer.



frankyfc said:


> Wrist gaiters i like, why do you hate them? My old jackets didn't have them, newer ones do... for eurocarves they're sweet.


I find that they add no benefit, but can get in the way/are fiddly (esp when touring) and can interfere with gloves, restrict venting through the sleeves, etc Also the material often does not dry well when it gets wet.
YMMV - as I said, some like them and some don't.


----------



## freshy (Nov 18, 2009)

frankyfc said:


> That's your jacket you mean?
> That's very rare to have ratings like that, never really see it with other brands. Probably very unnecessary I imagine?


Yes it is rare. Why would you think it's unnecessary? Some people ride hard and sweat and would rather be dry. 

Not my jacket by the way. I do have the Gum pants but I accidentally grabbed the 15K/15K instead of the 20/40 at the discount store that sells previous years gear. That stretchy fabric easily makes those the most comfortable pants I ever had, I imagine the jacket would be great too.


----------



## SGboarder (Jun 24, 2012)

freshy said:


> Nope I remembered it as 20/30, but apprently it's 20/40K. The Rip Curl Gum series https://www.ripcurl.com.au/mens/mountainwear/clothing/search-pro-gum-jacket.html





frankyfc said:


> That's your jacket you mean?
> That's very rare to have ratings like that, never really see it with other brands. Probably very unnecessary I imagine?


Ripcurl uses the 37.5 fabric technology (was called Cocona before and also used by Homeschool). That stuff definitely has serious breathability in my experience (had a Homeschool jacket for a while) but not clearly/noticeably better than Gore Pro - and again, having a lining or insulation takes brethability right back down.


----------



## frankyfc (Aug 11, 2017)

SGboarder said:


> Insulation interferes with breathability - different types to different degrees and the more insulation the worse for breathability all things equal. Zonal insulation does help is a compromise.
> 
> 
> 20k waterproofing is plenty even for riding in the rain. In general people do not get wet much from water penetrating through the fabric but more either from inside (sweat that does not evaporate) or because moisture gets in around the neck, through the sleeves, etc.
> ...


Just revisiting this as its decision time RE outerwear. 

Just got me thinking regarding shells...
So people are saying that breathability evidently goes down in insulated jackets for obvious reasons. 
However if you pick a shell surely as soon as you put on a midlayer the breathability plummets also? And whats more, when you want to dump heat via pit zips on an insulated jacket theres direct route out under the armpits - on a shell opening the vents will only expose the mid layer. 

So i'm presuming those advocating a shell also have to get super breathable mid-layers - which mid layers don't advertise i.e. no breathability rating on mid layers.

Essentially i'm still worried that the jacket i want which is very slightly insulated and is 20k/15k might not be good enough and i'm missing out on goretex just because i like this jackets cut/style more. 
However a big part of my wonders whether goretex will even be a noticeable difference to me.

I hike plenty but often open the jacket up, open the zip or take it off when it gets super hot...

thoughts?


----------



## Phedder (Sep 13, 2014)

It depends how hot you usually run as well, I run pretty hot. My jacket's a shell and only 10k/10k, but very thick/durable fabric so acts as a great windbreaker too. 80% of the time I'll be riding in a merino long sleeve base layer, a mid weight primaloft vest, and my shell jacket. Because my mid layer is a vest, opening up the pit vents is very efficient at getting rid of heat. If it's not terribly windy, I'm good in that down to -15/-20 celcius. Colder and I swap the vest for a slightly heavier full puffer jacket or add a thicker merino under the vest. 

If you really like the slightly insulated 20k/15k jacket, go for it. As long as you manage your base/mid layers well, you should be fine. Merino is better at retaining warmth, synthetics are typically better are wicking moisture away from the skin. Colder day, go merino. Warmer day, go synthetic and then let the jackets vents do the job to help get the moisture out.


----------



## SGboarder (Jun 24, 2012)

frankyfc said:


> Just revisiting this as its decision time RE outerwear.
> 
> Just got me thinking regarding shells...
> So people are saying that breathability evidently goes down in insulated jackets for obvious reasons.
> ...



You're way overthinking this.
And a simple fleece or wool midlayer breathes far better than even the most high-end shell, so well that it will never be the limiting factor in terms of breathability.


----------

