# New technology for the hill



## Robbo99 (Sep 2, 2013)

disclaimer - this is my product that i have designed and am developing.

Not everyone will get this product and i've heard most of what the haters are likely to reply with :blahblah: Personally i like to ride with music and find it quite dull to ride without; it gives me a sense of having more energy and psych to try things that perhaps i wouldnt otherwise. The obvious downside is that you can sacrifice your ability to communicate with the guys youre with.

As walkie-talkies are still far and away the best form of comms in non-urban areas (its free and instant), i came up with the idea of trying to have the simplicity of a walkie-talkie integrated with my phone so i could listen to music and use the radio from my earphones.

So I created the Airwave. We have an Android app and are looking for support to fund the manufacturing of the hardware units and the iOS version.
Check out http://igg.me/at/theairwave

It works with almost any walkie-talkie (so you can dust off the pair in your cupboard) and obviously a key point is being able to use your own earphones and connect them to your phone like we're used to. You then essentially have a completely hands-free walkie-talkie as an additional service to everything else your phone does.

Have a look and let me know (constructive) feedback.

I totally appreciate there are some out there that hate tech on the mountains, prefer not to listen to music, think that listening to music makes you more likely to have an accident (use your eyes and follow the alpine code people!), don't get the concept of walkie-talkies, think that walkie-talkie apps work (they have v limited range), dont want to carry other devices. I get it, this isnt for everyone  but based on the feedback and interest from retailers its worth sharing with you guys.

cheers


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## BurtonAvenger (Aug 14, 2007)

Isn't there a way to just turn your phone into a walkie talkie? Pretty sure there is.


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## Alpine Duke (Jun 21, 2015)

the vid did a good job of explaining it. Interesting idea.


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## Mizu Kuma (Apr 13, 2014)

Nice idea!!!!!

Just note that it's no good for use in Japan, and that if it does plug in similar to the prototype, I can see a lot of bent/damaged plugs!!!!!


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## Robbo99 (Sep 2, 2013)

BurtonAvenger said:


> Isn't there a way to just turn your phone into a walkie talkie? Pretty sure there is.


yes with a walkie-talkie app. but they're total rubbish and only have the range of your wifi chip...approx 30ft.


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## Robbo99 (Sep 2, 2013)

Mizu Kuma said:


> Nice idea!!!!!
> 
> Just note that it's no good for use in Japan, and that if it does plug in similar to the prototype, I can see a lot of bent/damaged plugs!!!!!


does Japan have a ban on walkie-talkies same as India (security concerns)? or some other reason why it wont work in Japan, let me know.

the prototype has a standard connector cable, we are planning to have new ones manufactured that are much lower profile similar in size to an earphone jack.


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## Mizu Kuma (Apr 13, 2014)

Robbo99 said:


> does Japan have a ban on walkie-talkies same as India (security concerns)? or some other reason why it wont work in Japan, let me know.
> 
> the prototype has a standard connector cable, we are planning to have new ones manufactured that are much lower profile similar in size to an earphone jack.


Japan ban the use of radios in order to keep the "airwaves" free for disaster alert/response!!!!!


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## ETM (Aug 11, 2009)

Mizu Kuma said:


> Japan ban the use of radios in order to keep the "airwaves" free for disaster alert/response!!!!!


They don't ban radios at all, just ones that aren't made for Japan and use an illegal frequency.
You can buy them in any electrics store


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## Kevin137 (May 5, 2013)

That is probably the most useful concept to come out in a while, i don't see it getting funded though...! It just isn't "interesting" enough... Haha


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## Robbo99 (Sep 2, 2013)

ETM said:


> They don't ban radios at all, just ones that aren't made for Japan and use an illegal frequency.
> You can buy them in any electrics store


thanks for the info, i'll have a look at the freq to see what other non-japan radios might work. it could well be just limiting the no of channels you use to avoid being noticed by the authorities.


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## SGboarder (Jun 24, 2012)

ETM said:


> Mizu Kuma said:
> 
> 
> > Japan ban the use of radios in order to keep the "airwaves" free for disaster alert/response!!!!!
> ...


That. They are just limited to certain frequencies and fairly pokey output.


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## Robbo99 (Sep 2, 2013)

Kevin137 said:


> That is probably the most useful concept to come out in a while, i don't see it getting funded though...! It just isn't "interesting" enough... Haha


gotta agree with you on the funding part; we probably didnt have the crowd to get us to a decent enough % before joe public would get involved.

that said we're on the cusp of releasing a new, thinner version so who knows, the situation might change.

Ultimately its hard trying to get people to buy a product thats originally designed for winter sports before there's any snow!

We've got some other things up our sleeve to make it more "interesting" including sharing your GPS location over the radio so you can track your friends. and if one gets lost, go their last know location. if you walk into their radio's range, you'll instantly get a ping so let you know as such. Could be awesome for ski patrol and more generally for the public.


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## slyder (Jan 18, 2010)

I like it. 
When my kids were a bit younger sometimes reaching them was hard even on our small over crowded hill. We tried walkie talkies. was so so as they couldn't always hear the incoming call beep and if they were listening to music, not a chance. Good use of combining the two

Question. say I choose channel 8 and another family using WT's on channel 8 without Airwave we will still hear them and them us? 

a bit bulky, and for that price I"d hope to see a universal clip of some kind to help secure it to the WT

For a family $60 a unit gets pricey. Of course I'm keep but times 4 of use that puts it out of my family budget for a convenience item. Yes it can be a safety feature but still to price for me at $250 for 4 units. I can buy super sweet WT's and just not have that feature for half.


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## Robbo99 (Sep 2, 2013)

slyder said:


> I like it.
> When my kids were a bit younger sometimes reaching them was hard even on our small over crowded hill. We tried walkie talkies. was so so as they couldn't always hear the incoming call beep and if they were listening to music, not a chance. Good use of combining the two
> 
> Question. say I choose channel 8 and another family using WT's on channel 8 without Airwave we will still hear them and them us?
> ...


to answer your question; yes both groups would hear the transmission. However most radios have 100+ channels so it should be easy enough to find a free one. That said, we are working on another initiative that essentially privatises sub-channels so you can avoid hearing other people's conversation. In development.

We will provide a universal clip for the WT. The new version is 13mm thick so its really not much added width vs the WT. 

Understood on the price front; what sort of price would you be willing to pay?


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## f00bar (Mar 6, 2014)

Mizu Kuma said:


> Japan ban the use of radios in order to keep the "airwaves" free for disaster alert/response!!!!!


Luckily for me I am a disaster waiting to happen!


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## lab49232 (Sep 13, 2011)

Robbo99 said:


> yes with a walkie-talkie app. but they're total rubbish and only have the range of your wifi chip...approx 30ft.


How does it differ from something like Voxer which works anywhere with a cell signal I believe.


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## BurtonAvenger (Aug 14, 2007)

Robbo99 said:


> yes with a walkie-talkie app. but they're total rubbish and only have the range of your wifi chip...approx 30ft.


Not selling me here since I know we've used it off a 3g and 4g network to communicate.


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## Argo (Feb 25, 2010)

This is a nice idea. You should sponsor some local USASA events. Get it into snowsports through coaching. Sponsor some avalanche awareness classes, get it into the back country that way.....


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## Mizu Kuma (Apr 13, 2014)

ETM said:


> They don't ban radios at all, just ones that aren't made for Japan and use an illegal frequency.
> You can buy them in any electrics store


Oh, well there ya go!!!!!


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## chomps1211 (Mar 30, 2011)

Won't comment on the app or hardware since you don't currently have this available for my Crapple iPhone. 

I did however think it worth mentioning that you crowd funding pitch page & faq for your product has a number of typo's and grammatical mistakes. And while I am not usually one of the "grammar nazi" stormtroopers here,...! 

That kind of thing hurts your effort to obtain investors and instill confidence in the product. Not raggin' you, juss sayin'! I'm practically a functional illiterate when it comes to spelling and grammar, but if when I read it I picture it having been written by a grade school drop out,..? You can be certain more edumacated individuals will be turned off by that. 

Text needs a serious proof re-read & fix. That should help your funding effort some. 





(....if we're talking a "non-native language" issue,.. Apologies! But,.. It's still something I think should be addressed if you wish to be taken seriously!).


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## Robbo99 (Sep 2, 2013)

BurtonAvenger said:


> How does it differ from something like Voxer which works anywhere with a cell signal I believe. Not selling me here since I know we've used it off a 3g and 4g network to communicate.


Voxer is a messaging app with a virtual WT feature. As you say it relies on 3G/4G or wifi (30ft range) which means you need a cell tower; not readily available in the mountains although yes some resorts have installed them. Also its not "instant" as their video would have you believe; the data packet has to be wrapped up by your phone, sent to the cell tower and on to its recipient. Ultimately its slower than a WT but yes it does work assuming you have a cell tower. The comments on their app aren't great though 30/40% people of complaining the app is buggy. Personally I'd just use Whatsapp's record audio feature.

Worth pointing out that some phone companies (mainly in the US) offer a half-duplex radio mode for your cell phone. Its usually extra $$ but not often used or advertised.

The Airwave is different because we rely on the WT for providing the comms, not a cell tower and importantly we can connect with any WT. The Airwave simply cues up that functionality to your phone so it's accessible to what most of would deem our primary device.


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## Robbo99 (Sep 2, 2013)

Argo said:


> This is a nice idea. You should sponsor some local USASA events. Get it into snowsports through coaching. Sponsor some avalanche awareness classes, get it into the back country that way.....


Thanks Argo. We're looking forward to the winter to do exactly that. I got my CASI licence a few years back and my buddies that still teach think this'd be a great tool for one on one coaching as well as finding a use in competitions. Ultimately there's quite a few applications in the ski/snowboarding world and whilst the idea started off as something for recreational skiers and riders, we hope this Winter will allow us to make in roads to other parts of the sport.

The backcountry idea is interesting. Some people think you need all your senses on high alert, others are comfortable listening to music (key point here; music isnt compulsory! you can just be on alert for incoming radio or transmit more easily). I think its ok for most of us who are just out of bounds rather than proper backcountry, but again it's down to the individual. Some heli operations we've spoken to are dead against it, others think its a good idea.


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## BurtonAvenger (Aug 14, 2007)

Robbo99 said:


> Voxer is a messaging app with a virtual WT feature. As you say it relies on 3G/4G or wifi (30ft range) which means you need a cell tower; not readily available in the mountains although yes some resorts have installed them. Also its not "instant" as their video would have you believe; the data packet has to be wrapped up by your phone, sent to the cell tower and on to its recipient. Ultimately its slower than a WT but yes it does work assuming you have a cell tower. The comments on their app aren't great though 30/40% people of complaining the app is buggy. Personally I'd just use Whatsapp's record audio feature.
> 
> Worth pointing out that some phone companies (mainly in the US) offer a half-duplex radio mode for your cell phone. Its usually extra $$ but not often used or advertised.
> 
> The Airwave is different because we rely on the WT for providing the comms, not a cell tower and importantly we can connect with any WT. The Airwave simply cues up that functionality to your phone so it's accessible to what most of would deem our primary device.


I'm not talking about Voxer.


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## Robbo99 (Sep 2, 2013)

sorry i mis-read you, but the commment regarding cell tower dependency stands in ref to using walkie-talkie apps over a 3g/4g network.


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## yodelup (Feb 28, 2016)

*Walkie-talkie with friends & control your music. Never take your gloves off again!*

we developed a product with similar benefits, but you don't need a traditional walkie-talkie. 

It's a device that skiers and snowboarders wear on their glove and allows them to take control of their music, take phone calls, and even walkie-talkie with a group of friend (Walkie-talkie App running on their smartphone), without having to take off their gloves.

This link takes you to our kickstarter for more info: www.yodelup.com/kickstarter

thanks, would love to hear your comments...


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## Donutz (May 12, 2010)

yodelup said:


> we developed a product with similar benefits, but you don't need a traditional walkie-talkie.
> 
> It's a device that skiers and snowboarders wear on their glove and allows them to take control of their music, take phone calls, and even walkie-talkie with a group of friend (Walkie-talkie App running on their smartphone), without having to take off their gloves.
> 
> ...


Three posts, all about your product, all in other people's threads. Not a good start.


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## Robbo99 (Sep 2, 2013)

fundamentally limited by the fact you need a cellular signal or wifi access point to use what is essentially a latency-bound, voice mail recording app. This is why all the professionals use walkie talkies.


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## poutanen (Dec 22, 2011)

Robbo99 said:


> fundamentally limited by the fact you need a cellular signal or wifi access point to use what is essentially a latency-bound, voice mail recording app. This is why all the professionals use walkie talkies.


I see you mentioning professionals, and I also saw on the go-fund me page you mentioned it would be good for mountain professionals. 

Sorry, but no. We use radios, yes, but the idea of linking them into our smartphone, through another device is assinine. You may have a great product for the skiiers/riders who have to listen to music while riding, but also want to talk on radios to their friends. That is not a good description of a mountain professional (ski patrol I assume you mean?)

Our tools need to be as simple as possible, and even then they screw up.

"Hold on for a second," I'd say to somebody with a femur fracture who's about to go into hypovolemic shock... "hold on while I diagnose my bluetooth connection between my smartphone and airwave device, or maybe it's the connection from the radio and airwave that's worked itself loose?"

Nope nope nope. Yes, professionals use radios on the mountain with a repeater system (usually) to ensure coverage of the whole mountain. No, we're not going to use a secondary device to transmit signals to a 3rd device, which is then going to alert me via my pair of headphones. Too many variables to go wrong. The best rescue equipment is the simplest rescue equipment.

Otherwise, this product doesn't tickle my fancy as I don't ride with music. :embarrased1:


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## Robbo99 (Sep 2, 2013)

thanks for taking the time to write a post.

You could simply just unplug the Airwave if you were having any connectivity issues, quite simple. The original concept with ski patrol was someone who was on their break who would still carry a radio, not someone on active patrol duty. There are of course other professionals such as the film makers and riders we're working with who want their riders psyched up for their drop, but need to announce when they're ready to record/when the heli is coming about etc.

We have some major upgrades coming in the next few weeks which are centered more around enhanced safety and tracking capabilities, alongside the existing 2-way comms & music feature set. This may interest you more (or not at all!) and will post here upon release. Cheers


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## poutanen (Dec 22, 2011)

I can see what you mean for riders wanting to "get stoked" from the music but still be able to get two way radio comms. I guess I just didn't think that many riders were worried about getting both available at the same time (through the same earpiece).

As for patrollers, I'm not sure how other hills work, but we're never on a break. Sure we take lunch, check our phones, etc. but I don't see anyone listening to music on headphones while patrolling.

I guess I just find that there are already too many variables to start introducing something more into our communications. I need one device, with one battery, and as few variables as possible to be sure that communications is working 100% of the time. If I'm closest to a possible accident, I need to be sure that I hear the call on the radio to respond. 

FYI, we just had all our radios modified so that the buttons can be locked out, so the only way they could change channel is if we turned a dial on top. We're always trying to reduce the variables when possible!


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