# Never summer sl 2012 - detune? Beginner



## Decade190 (Feb 26, 2012)

OK guys...
So i'm a beginner but have wakeboarded, skated and skiied for years so anticipate progressing quickly. I have snowboarded for 1 day in total and can link turns (wouldn't say carving yet) both sides and am comfortable on most runs. Will be doing mainly groomers with some park - jumps only.

I'm going over to france in a few weeks for the whole season and have decided to snowboard primarily whilst there, a good opportunity to really get into it!

I have bought a Never Summer SL 2011/2012 158 new (clearance sale) in store and burton cartel bindings.

My first question is... am I mad to start out with this board? I really can't afford to buy several boards and I didn't want a beginner board that I would outgrow within a few weeks of the season. Am i about to eat dirt/bruise my ass for 4months?

Secondly... I dont fully understand what people are talking about but I aware that the board comes with 0 bevel. As such many people seem to detune the edges of the board - or at least the nose and tail before the contact area. I was hoping to ride the board out of the bag with no real changes - I will just wax it regularly throughout the season.
Should I be looking at detuning or changing the edge?


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## a bag of it (Oct 2, 2011)

Don't detune or mess with the edges at all until you have a good idea of what you're doing. Once a board is detuned you can't bring it back and if it's your only board you'll definitely want edges. I think the sl is a great board to start with, not too soft, but not too much board for a beginner


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## phony_stark (Jul 2, 2011)

fhendo190 said:


> OK guys...
> So i'm a beginner but have wakeboarded, skated and skiied for years so anticipate progressing quickly. I have snowboarded for 1 day in total and can link turns (wouldn't say carving yet) both sides and am comfortable on most runs. Will be doing mainly groomers with some park - jumps only.
> 
> I'm going over to france in a few weeks for the whole season and have decided to snowboard primarily whilst there, a good opportunity to really get into it!
> ...


Nah, you'll be fine on that board. It's got a hybrid Reverse Camber shape and is mid flex.

To understand beveling (I'm assuming base) there are links on this board, but a quick way is to make two "L"s with your fingers (paper football style). Those L's, as they are, are a 0 bevel with your thumbs being the base and fingers being the edge. 

Tilt just your thumbs toward the floor and you've made a base bevel, point just your fingers toward each other and you've made an edge bevel, point both and you've made a base and edge bevel.

Having a base bevel on the board causes the board to take a smidge longer to engage which reduces the chance of catching, when you're doing stuff. I like a one degree on the base, and one degree edge to keep things a little sharp, but wouldn't even mind just a one degree base.

All that being said, I think you can probably ride the board out of the bag with no problems and, if anything, will help you learn edge control and make you a better rider. Although I had WAY more fun after detuning the tip and tail, because eating shit because of those is something that can and should be avoided.

Remember, 90% rider 10% gear.


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## Bones (Feb 24, 2008)

fhendo190 said:


> Secondly... I dont fully understand what people are talking about but I aware that the board comes with 0 bevel.
> 
> Should I be looking at detuning or changing the edge?


The zero bevel means that the edge base bevel is flush to the snow and the side bevel is 90 degrees to that. A lot of manufacturers bevel the base slightly (1 degree or so) so that the edge is slightly lifted off the snow. This reduces the edge from catching when you slide sideways. Park riders tend to like a higher base bevel so that they slide easier with no edge catch on rails, etc. 

My personal opinion is this: you're a new rider. You will catch edges no matter what the base bevel is. Filing off metal will not save you from doing this. As you get better, you will have more subtle control over your edge angles. When you get to that point, you may have developed a personal preference for edge angles and then you can adjust things in 0.5 degree increments until you get what you want. It is very easy to increase the base bevel angle, but it is difficult to reduce it.

The rocker shape of the SL will save you from many an edge catch simply because the contact points are lifted off the snow.

Just ride it out of the box, learn, enjoy, get better. Post again when you've got 20-30 days under your belt or are carving.


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## Decade190 (Feb 26, 2012)

Ok thanks for your help everyone. 

Looks like I'm sticking with the NS SL, keeping the factory bevel but sounds like I should only think about detuning the nose and tail?


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## Decade190 (Feb 26, 2012)

phony_stark said:


> All that being said, I think you can probably ride the board out of the bag with no problems and, if anything, will help you learn edge control and make you a better rider. Although I had WAY more fun after detuning the tip and tail, because eating shit because of those is something that can and avoided


When you say WAY more fun, you recommending I should detune the tip and tail before the contact point? And is that more fun for buttering etc or general riding?


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## phony_stark (Jul 2, 2011)

Yep! You can ride it out of the box, but detuning the tip and tail will reduce a lot of unnecessary edge catching.


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## phony_stark (Jul 2, 2011)

fhendo190 said:


> When you say WAY more fun, you recommending I should detune the tip and tail before the contact point? And is that more fun for buttering etc or general riding?


Definitely Both....


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## BigmountainVMD (Oct 9, 2011)

Or you can not be a pussy and don't detune anything. Are you riding rails? No? Then don't detune any points of contact. You are gonna be carving up some sick mountains in France and want your edges to hold, not give way. I have NEVER detuned a board, but I also NEVER hit rails. I keep my edges at factory bevel and sharpen them a couple times each season to increase edge hold while carving. You will be happy when you are charging and your board doesn't fly out from under you when you hit an ice patch. That being said, detuning outside of the contact points for butters won't hurt, just make sure you are not within the contact points.

Learn to ride the board correctly WITHOUT detuning it and you will have better technique because of it. Then if you actually detune it, you will be a boss.

Also, riding hardpack and ice will detune the board slowly but naturally over time.


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## Decade190 (Feb 26, 2012)

BigmountainVMD said:


> Or you can not be a pussy and don't detune anything. Are you riding rails? No? Then don't detune any points of contact. You are gonna be carving up some sick mountains in France and want your edges to hold, not give way. I have NEVER detuned a board, but I also NEVER hit rails. I keep my edges at factory bevel and sharpen them a couple times each season to increase edge hold while carving. You will be happy when you are charging and your board doesn't fly out from under you when you hit an ice patch. That being said, detuning outside of the contact points for butters won't hurt, just make sure you are not within the contact points.
> 
> Learn to ride the board correctly WITHOUT detuning it and you will have better technique because of it. Then if you actually detune it, you will be a boss.
> 
> Also, riding hardpack and ice will detune the board slowly but naturally over time.


Ha some slightly mixed messages but it sounds like detune the tip and tail otherwise grow some balls and learn to ride ha


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## phony_stark (Jul 2, 2011)

fhendo190 said:


> Ha some slightly mixed messages but it sounds like detune the tip and tail otherwise grow some balls and learn to ride ha


I forgot to mention, you will smell like vagina if you detune the tip and tail. The pit zips on your jacket for some, are to let out the heat, for others, to let out the smell.

I do find I have a lot of fun with vaginas though, so there's that.


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## jdang307 (Feb 6, 2011)

Doesnt matter either way. You can detune the tip and tail ... or not. You will still ride just fine.

I've ridden it both ways. I also took my NS Evo to a 1 degree bevel (both base and side) and detuned the tip and tail.

It was noticeably smoother, and less jumpy riding flat. 

But you're new. Don't do shit. You don't even need to do the tip and tail, unless you're planning on buttering your first time out (unlikely).

Just ride it. Just know that 0 degree bevel makes for very quick engaging (and some brutal take downs)


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## Slush Puppie (Aug 15, 2011)

So to summarise:

Don't worry about touching the edges until(if) you discover a need to.
Don't worry about the tip and tail, though it won't do any harm if you want the kill half an hour. Just be careful not to go far past the contact points, you can't put the material back on.

That's a pretty solid board and binding combo, you should progress fast on it. Where in the alps are you going to be?


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## jdang307 (Feb 6, 2011)

Slush Puppie said:


> So to summarise:
> 
> Don't worry about touching the edges until(if) you discover a need to.
> Don't worry about the tip and tail, though it won't do any harm if you want the kill half an hour. Just be careful not to go far past the contact points, you can't put the material back on.
> ...


when you do want to to the tip and tail, Lay the board on its side, look to see where it touches the surface. That is your contact point. Put some tape a little in front of that. Don't go past that. Take a file and go to town.


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## lonerider (Apr 10, 2009)

phony_stark said:


> Yep! You can ride it out of the box, but detuning the tip and tail will reduce a lot of unnecessary edge catching.


A lot of people parrot stuff. Detuning the nose and tail will do little for 95% of riders... even park riders because they aren't good enough for it make a difference. I rode over 15 years and detuned the tips on one board and it was barely a difference.

You have to realize 99% of the people on this forum are not very good (i.e. anyone who describes themselves as an intermediate or less) but they like to act like what they think a expert park rider would do.

I rode a proto ct on spins and and board slide with out touching the edges.


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## a bag of it (Oct 2, 2011)

Same here I ride rails all day and didn't touch my proto's edges. In fact, I sharpen my edges regularly. And I'm willing to bet I'm better than 99% of people on this forum


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## Snow Hound (Jul 21, 2012)

There is always the satisfaction of knowing that something is 'right' regardless of whether it makes an actual difference or not.

I detune the tip and tail, well, because I can.

And to the OP your new SL is more forgiving than the straight up cambered boards that many of us learnt on. You'll be fine learning and then progressing on it. It's a great set up - exactly what I got last season.


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## lonerider (Apr 10, 2009)

Snow Hound said:


> There is always the satisfaction of knowing that something is 'right' regardless of whether it makes an actual difference or not.
> 
> I detune the tip and tail, well, because I can.


Do you deburr your edges with a diamond stone at the end of every day? That is going to make 10 times more of a difference. That's the difference between doing stuff that actually matters... and doing stuff because you think that's what the *hardcore riders* do.

I forgot I had this... but I did a 1-hour rail session with my board like this doing boardslides, lipslides, nosepresses and tailpresses, etc ... 0/0 bevel, no detuning.... and a busted edge. If I can't catch my edge riding a board like that (and I am by no means a great jibber)... do you really think detuning your nose or tail is going to matter much?










Edit: I should add that in general I prefer 1/1... but I only bothered to do that when the edges needed to be sharpened anyway.


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## snowklinger (Aug 30, 2011)

sharp rails but detuned contacts imo.

0/0 is fine and you can go 1/1 no biggie.

The way NS camber profile is coupled with the 0/0 bevel can actually be more punishing than "the cambered boards we learned on" because of the rocker between the feet. This causes an instability not present on classic camber. Hence a new rider can suddenly find themselves teetering on the rocker and going to a contact point - scorpion. This is a smaller swivel point as it is only from the middle to whichever edge is caught, meaning it requires a little more finesse and it happens faster - whammo!


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## Slush Puppie (Aug 15, 2011)

lonerider said:


> Do you deburr your edges with a diamond stone at the end of every day? That is going to make 10 times more of a difference.


I do. I know plenty of people that do neither, they don't seem to have any problems.

From what I can tell, doing the tip and tail makes more difference on a camber board anyway. My friend had never done anything with his edges on a years old Custom and they were chewed to bits. After sharpening for the first time he found it very hooky, he didn't like it. But that improved a lot with doing the tip and tail. I didn't find any real difference after doing my Evo.


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## snowklinger (Aug 30, 2011)

Slush Puppie said:


> But that improved a lot with doing the tip and tail. I didn't find any real difference after doing my Evo.


I believe that the core of the Evo ("press flex" or something) causes the rocker to be more pronouced even tho it is the "same" as the proto size wize. This also causes the tips/contact points to be more lifted than the other models.

This is what I have heard from other riders and people on this site. Don't have mine yet


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## lonerider (Apr 10, 2009)

snowklinger said:


> I believe that the core of the Evo ("press flex" or something) causes the rocker to be more pronouced even tho it is the "same" as the proto size wize. This also causes the tips/contact points to be more lifted than the other models.
> 
> This is what I have heard from other riders and people on this site. Don't have mine yet


I didn't notice a difference in the rocker when I rode the Evo and Proto on back to back runs the same day.


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## Snow Hound (Jul 21, 2012)

lonerider said:


> Do you deburr your edges with a diamond stone at the end of every day? That is going to make 10 times more of a difference. That's the difference between doing stuff that actually matters... and doing stuff because you think that's what the *hardcore riders* do.


Not responding to me though surely? I'm certainly not 'good'. Though I'd hope you'd say I was decent for the 70 days I've had on snow. 

For sure I don't do things because I think it makes me appear more hardcore. I'd need a time machine for that.

Some of us unfortunately spend more time reading about it than actually doing it and will never get to express our mega steeze by sessioning a handrail on a busted door with razor blades hammered in for edges.

Maybe the OP should have asked "is there any scenario in which sharp edges past the contact points on the tip and tail would be of benefit to me as a beginner?"


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## phony_stark (Jul 2, 2011)

Yeah, I misunderstood the OP's intent. 

I thought it was, "What are the benefits of detuning/beveling the board."
To which everyone has weighed in on how coar/not coar/smart/silly it is to bevel and detune.

When it was really:
"I wanna ride it out of the box, will anything catastrophic happen to me as a n00b?"
To which the answer is, "Not really. Have fun."


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## Decade190 (Feb 26, 2012)

phony_stark said:


> Yeah, I misunderstood the OP's intent.
> 
> I thought it was, "What are the benefits of detuning/beveling the board."
> To which everyone has weighed in on how coar/not coar/smart/silly it is to bevel and detune.
> ...


Yeah that's pretty much what I was asking... Coupled with whether or not it was gunna be 'too much' board for me. Thanks!


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## Decade190 (Feb 26, 2012)

snowklinger said:


> sharp rails but detuned contacts imo.
> 
> 0/0 is fine and you can go 1/1 no biggie.
> 
> The way NS camber profile is coupled with the 0/0 bevel can actually be more punishing than "the cambered boards we learned on" because of the rocker between the feet. This causes an instability not present on classic camber. Hence a new rider can suddenly find themselves teetering on the rocker and going to a contact point - scorpion. This is a smaller swivel point as it is only from the middle to whichever edge is caught, meaning it requires a little more finesse and it happens faster - whammo!


So I'm in for a rough ride? Sounds like I should strap up the wrists for the first week or so then ha


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## buggravy (Feb 19, 2008)

fhendo190 said:


> So I'm in for a rough ride? Sounds like I should strap up the wrists for the first week or so then ha


Don't psych yourself out. I bought an 08/09 SL-R when I had <10 days of riding, and it's an easy/forgiving board to ride. You'll be fine. I think I actually posted a thread much like yours right after I bought it, and ultimately I didn't do any sort of detune. I've owned a bunch of boards since, some of which I've detuned the tip and tail, and some came that way from the factory. Ultimately I've never perceived much, if any difference from a detuned tip and tail, and as such don't generally bother to do any detuning any more. You made a good purchase. Just go have fun on it.


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## Engage_mike (Oct 14, 2011)

Just wanted to throw my 2 cents in as well and let you know that I am pretty new myself and purchased the identical setup last season...only lucky you caught the board on clearance...probably saved you a good chunk. ANYWAYS...Same set up...pretty new to the sport and my first season on the board proved fantastic as far as my progression...I was worried about the "To much board" situation but I believe it only made me better and I'm so excited to go out again this winter.. HAVE FUN! wear a helmet!


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## JHeagz (Oct 21, 2012)

No matter what it can't be a more harsh ride than the regular camber, 161CM custom from 1993 that I learned on when I was 15 years old and only weighed 145 lbs. Oh, and the bunny slopes weren't open, so I leaned on all blues, haha! I'd be more focused on padding if I were you, b/c you're going to go down regardless of what you do to your edges on your first day or two. I couldn't get off the couch the next day.

Also, from a non-park guy's perspective, I've never detuned a board and get it sharpened 1x a season when I get my based grinded/repaired. Some people complain about edges being too grippy, but to that I say just don't turn as hard! Why would you ever want less edge hold??? <Again not a park guy>

If I were you, I'd throw some pads on and get out there! The quicker you get through the awkward learning phase, the quicker you'll be able to have some real fun. When you're at your lowest, keep going, b/c I've yet to find something in life as great as rewarding as snowboarding.


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## Lamps (Sep 3, 2011)

BigmountainVMD said:


> Or you can not be a pussy and don't detune anything. Are you riding rails? No? Then don't detune any points of contact. You are gonna be carving up some sick mountains in France and want your edges to hold, not give way. I have NEVER detuned a board, but I also NEVER hit rails. I keep my edges at factory bevel and sharpen them a couple times each season to increase edge hold while carving. You will be happy when you are charging and your board doesn't fly out from under you when you hit an ice patch. That being said, detuning outside of the contact points for butters won't hurt, just make sure you are not within the contact points.
> 
> Learn to ride the board correctly WITHOUT detuning it and you will have better technique because of it. Then if you actually detune it, you will be a boss.
> 
> Also, riding hardpack and ice will detune the board slowly but naturally over time.


I agree 100 per cent with this, and it is my riding style too, never hit a rail, never detune.


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## jdang307 (Feb 6, 2011)

fhendo190 said:


> So I'm in for a rough ride? Sounds like I should strap up the wrists for the first week or so then ha


I learned on a stiff cambered Technine deck. Don't worry about it. Just ride it.

The SL was the first premium board I bought. I bought it after about 15 days total on the snow. It is not too much board and actually improved my confidence big time. It was softer than my Technine but smoother (damp) while riding.

Proper turn initiation and no whipping of the back leg will decrease the scorpions big time. I've been taken down hard on the RC profile. Not blaming the profile, it was me being sloppy and tired, on an Evo. Ever since I learned proper turn initiation the caught edges almost disappeared. If you initiate the turn properly, the downhill edge is in the air so it is less susceptible to getting caught in the snow.

Once you learn to link turns and are comfortable going down the mountain. Go to the beginners area, and take your back foot out of the binding (stomp pad helps) and just turn with only the front foot. You'll probably fall a few times, but it'll teach you to initiate turns with your lead foot.

Another thing I did to teach myself was to lean forward into my front foot, and into the turn slightly. That teaches you to not lean back on the hill (which is bad) and to focus on the front, not back foot.


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## Decade190 (Feb 26, 2012)

jdang307 said:


> I learned on a stiff cambered Technine deck. Don't worry about it. Just ride it.
> 
> The SL was the first premium board I bought. I bought it after about 15 days total on the snow. It is not too much board and actually improved my confidence big time. It was softer than my Technine but smoother (damp) while riding.
> 
> ...


That's all really helpful advice cheers. You have lessons? I'm pretty alright getting down the hill without falls and linking turns. However I'm pretty sure i throw my back leg, particularly for a toeside turn. This feels particularly obvious when on a steep slope/patch when trying to keep speed down. 

Can I ask... When turning, and you say about initiating with the front foot, should I be using torsion on the board by say twisting the front foot heelside to turn heelside?


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## jdang307 (Feb 6, 2011)

fhendo190 said:


> That's all really helpful advice cheers. You have lessons? I'm pretty alright getting down the hill without falls and linking turns. However I'm pretty sure i throw my back leg, particularly for a toeside turn. This feels particularly obvious when on a steep slope/patch when trying to keep speed down.
> 
> Can I ask... When turning, and you say about initiating with the front foot, should I be using torsion on the board by say twisting the front foot heelside to turn heelside?


No, I never took lessons. I just learned it on my own, and reading this forum (search Snowolf's post, who always has good information to share, he's an instructor).

As for turning, yes. There are a few ways to turn. One is to apply pressure to the board with your toe or heel. That will engage the sidecut and turn. There are other ways to turn but I'll leave those technicals to the more experienced teachers here.


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