# AngrySnowboarder Podcast Episode 4



## 16gkid (Dec 5, 2012)

jerry gnarcia said:


> Any other listeners? Always fun to hear the industry gossip and bad new snowboard inventions. I do wish they'd do more episodes, but reviewing boards probably takes up a lot of time.
> 
> The Angry Snowboarder Podcast: Episode 4; Killer Gondolas, Rotational Bindings, And More! - The Angry Snowboarder


I seriously think the lack of footage of riding the boards they are reviewing hurts their youtube channel, thats why I love board archive reviews, TJ doesn't just talk about doing this and that, he actually shows you footage of him doing it.


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## chomps1211 (Mar 30, 2011)

16gkid said:


> I seriously think the lack of footage of riding the boards they are reviewing hurts their youtube channel, thats why I love board archive reviews, TJ doesn't just talk about doing this and that, he actually shows you footage of him doing it.


Iir,.. they *had* footage but lost it in a hard drive melt down or something. Im pretty sure the plan is to have ride footage for the next years set of reviews. At least I think that's the plan. :shrug:


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## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

We review well over 100 boards a year. To film riding that and have it edited and put together is way more than me, Avran, and our part time filmer/editor could ever handle. We'll get some select stuff here and there, but we both also have 40hr jobs. People don't realize the time investment this stuff usually takes.


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## Rip154 (Sep 23, 2017)

Watching someone ride a board wouldn't tell me all that much. Some reference videos of how boards are being tested and the riding style of reviewers might help give more substance to the review for some.


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## chomps1211 (Mar 30, 2011)

Nivek said:


> We review well over 100 boards a year. To film riding that and have it edited and put together is way more than me, Avran, and our part time filmer/editor could ever handle. We'll get some select stuff here and there, but we both also have 40hr jobs. People don't realize the time investment this stuff usually takes.


My bad! Guess I misunderstood what got lost in the digital disaster and the subsequent plan. Sorry! :embarrased1:


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## 16gkid (Dec 5, 2012)

Rip154 said:


> Watching someone ride a board wouldn't tell me all that much.


But listening to someone talk about it will??:dry:


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## f00bar (Mar 6, 2014)

16gkid said:


> But listening to someone talk about it will??:dry:


If that's what you're looking for then you should just skip every review and spend your life hitting demo days.

I will agree with you that all online reviews are lacking because what you want is to see how it rides for you and no amount of explaining or video will make up for that.

But I don't think BA or Nivek would say they are making reviews that they truly believe people can use to choose the board you should own. They do however do a decent job of narrowing down the ungodly amount of options to something maybe more manageable.


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## cliffjumper68 (Nov 30, 2018)

Nivek said:


> We review well over 100 boards a year. To film riding that and have it edited and put together is way more than me, Avran, and our part time filmer/editor could ever handle. We'll get some select stuff here and there, but we both also have 40hr jobs. People don't realize the time investment this stuff usually takes.


Sharkbite "Can Kevin carve it" was awesome! Hope you get some more episodes of you doing different types of boards to show how they ride differently like the super long Libtech and the shorty kids board (wide, narrow, volume shifted, odd shaped).


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## 16gkid (Dec 5, 2012)

f00bar said:


> If that's what you're looking for then you should just skip every review and spend your life hitting demo days.
> 
> I will agree with you that all online reviews are lacking because what you want is to see how it rides for you and no amount of explaining or video will make up for that.
> 
> But I don't think BA or Nivek would say they are making reviews that they truly believe people can use to choose the board you should own. They do however do a decent job of narrowing down the ungodly amount of options to something maybe more manageable.


But i just said, thats why i watch board archive, because they show you the board in action as they review it? Never said team angry isnt doing a good job, they are doing a GREAT job putting out snowboard related content, but some people prefer to see the board in action.


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## Rip154 (Sep 23, 2017)

16gkid said:


> Rip154 said:
> 
> 
> > Watching someone ride a board wouldn't tell me all that much.
> ...


I can ride a board I absolutely hate in conditions it's not made for and make it look ok. That's why I'd rather have the opinion of someone, if I know how they ride and what they like. I mean, you get a general idea of how the topsheet matches the snow, but that's about it.


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## drblast (Feb 28, 2017)

Rip154 said:


> I can ride a board I absolutely hate in conditions it's not made for and make it look ok. That's why I'd rather have the opinion of someone, if I know how they ride and what they like. I mean, you get a general idea of how the topsheet matches the snow, but that's about it.


Yup, watching a board on the snow tells you very little.

I like reviews that tell you things about the board that you can't get from stats reliably. Flex, profile, sidecut, where the board shines and where it sucks, and the target audience.

I've never been on a board that I've absolutely hated except for the Arbor Clovis, and I think that was because I asked the demo guy for the hardest charging freeride board they had and he gave me that with a poor wax job. If I had said, "Hey gimme a twin that doesn't look like a twin at all!" I'd probably have enjoyed riding it.

And there's a vast difference in riding impressions based on rider size and such. Now I pretty much know I'll like a board when Avran scrunches his nose and says "and it stiffens RIGHT up" and "weekend warriors" and "wants camber in their life" in the board review.


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## BurtonAvenger (Aug 14, 2007)

jerry gnarcia said:


> Any other listeners? Always fun to hear the industry gossip and bad new snowboard inventions. I do wish they'd do more episodes, but reviewing boards probably takes up a lot of time.
> 
> The Angry Snowboarder Podcast: Episode 4; Killer Gondolas, Rotational Bindings, And More! - The Angry Snowboarder


Thanks for the link. Next episode should be devoted 100% to talking next years gear as it will be the SIA special regardless if I don't go. Just trying to wrangle in Colin, Travis, Austin, and Jackson so we can give you guys a multi take perspective on what's new out there from kids at various other shops, may also talk to a female shop manager I know to see if she can give a perspective. 

I rather enjoy being able to sleep. More episodes requires less sleep right now. 



16gkid said:


> I seriously think the lack of footage of riding the boards they are reviewing hurts their youtube channel, thats why I love board archive reviews, TJ doesn't just talk about doing this and that, he actually shows you footage of him doing it.


Here's some numbers for you from just YouTube for 2018. 

3,369,485 minutes of watch time. (That's 6 years 127 days)
960,672 total views. 
Subscribers 4,242

2017 numbers
213,737 minutes of watch time (148 days 10 hours)
53,367 total views
Subscribers 403

Those numbers speak for themselves. 



Nivek said:


> We review well over 100 boards a year. To film riding that and have it edited and put together is way more than me, Avran, and our part time filmer/editor could ever handle. We'll get some select stuff here and there, but we both also have 40hr jobs. People don't realize the time investment this stuff usually takes.


THIS PRETTY MUCH SUMS IT UP! You want to see more of something I strongly suggest joining angrysnowboarder.vip. That is single handily the best resource for support we have going for us. 

We're 10 years in on angrysnowboarder.com, lets see every other YouTuber crack that year count. Plus if you audit any YouTubers website, if they have one, and compare it to Angry it's not even close. Plus I'm just fucking tired and burnt out. It took 10 years of doing this to convince companies how viable it was, to open doors, to establish a foothold. Everyone that's come after that never had to do the leg work, create the plan of action, enact it, and show that it could be done. They had it a lot easier than myself and Kevin ever did. Yeah there's a lot of things we could do differently, there's a lot of things I wish I could go back and change, but I'm not going to sit here and live in the land of regret. I'm going to just move forward with my master plan and continue on my path to get there. Most people don't understand it's a marathon, not a sprint. I see a lot of people sprinting past us, but where are they going to be in 1, 2, 5, or 10 years. Longevity is the name of the game and we've adapted where we needed to (albeit sometimes not as fast) with the consumer market. 

Everyone wants us to be like someone else or to be something else. We start going down that rabbit hole, we end up not being us anymore, just some knock off version. You can complain, you can criticize, you can support, you can not support, it's all up to you. But until you've done what we've done and invested the time, money, and body (believe me my body is fucking shot) you're just armchair quarterbacking. 2019 is going to be an interesting year, I'm getting ready to enact something that will either propel us to where we need to be or completely blow up in our faces and force us to play the long game yet again. Either way at least we're trying something. 



cliffjumper68 said:


> Sharkbite "Can Kevin carve it" was awesome! Hope you get some more episodes of you doing different types of boards to show how they ride differently like the super long Libtech and the shorty kids board (wide, narrow, volume shifted, odd shaped).


4 new episodes filmed and sitting on the hard drive waiting to be edited. 3 boards waiting to be filmed and tracking down a few more "unique" decks to review. Goal, hopefully have a bunch more episodes before the season is over, but currently with what we have going on might push it back till the fall and do it as a fall show again. Granted Angrysnowboarder.vip members will get it early.


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

16gkid said:


> I seriously think the lack of footage of riding the boards they are reviewing hurts their youtube channel, thats why I love board archive reviews, TJ doesn't just talk about doing this and that, he actually shows you footage of him doing it.


Absolutely not. Actually, the moment Angrysnowboarder start showing riding with reviews, the whole review thing will shift focus into THEIR riding. And of course the next step will circle everyone back to the same shithole the snowboard industry has created by fooling people into listening to "pro riders". The fact you can double flipitty spin doesn't mean you know about... whatever.

If someone goes by TJ's reviews, they will be riding Unions and whichever board he rode in the most awesome powder day ever in Whistler.

And by the way... i really wish Snowboard Pro camp moved to Colorado...


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## sabatoa (Jan 18, 2011)

Nah Avran, you guys are fucking killing it on youtube. I'm a big fan of what you and Kevin are doing and I'm stoked that the numbers are supporting that effort.


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## jerry gnarcia (Feb 11, 2017)

Yeah I get it. I could come up with a hundred things I’d like to see. But I’m sure a hundred different people have their own 2 cents, experimenting takes resources, it’s not obvious what will be viable and most ideas probably won’t work out, everything costs money and time, and getting sponsors while trying to be unbiased is a tricky dance.

Plus, being a good thorough reviewer isn’t necessarily the same skill as being a good youtube personality. 

I joined the VIP thing, but I don’t care about stickers, so I need another incentive to jump to a higher tier :grin:

My favorite content so far was actually the bootfitting series on the youtube channel. That was super useful, even learned a lot as someone who has done a fair bit of amateur bootfitting. The instep bridge trick was handy. I’m probably the minority though and I’m sure more clicks go to riding videos, but whatever.

I actually don’t care all that much about reviews, because I just assume that Avran and Kevin’s riding is so far beyond what the average 30-40 day/season weekend warrior like myself can get out of a board, that I just check it for boards/bindings that I’m already interested in and treat it as a minor additional data point at best.


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## speedjason (May 2, 2013)

Reviewing a board by watching a person riding it is hard. Everyone rides differently. You can give a good rider a shitty board, he/she can make magic with it. You give a normal rider a good board, he/she can only do so much.
IMO while reviews are nice for initial justification to decide which board you want to demo, it's still up to you to determine what works for you.


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## deagol (Mar 26, 2014)

F1EA said:


> .......
> And by the way... i really wish Snowboard Pro camp moved to Colorado...


Please no...

:frown:


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## jerry gnarcia (Feb 11, 2017)

F1EA said:


> And by the way... i really wish Snowboard Pro camp moved to Colorado...


Just curious, why don’t you like them in Whistler? Because they are blowing up spots?

I like Kevin and TJ too, for different reasons. They have their own thing, that’s cool. They get people stoked on riding and seem pretty humble. I do get the impression that they fall into the trap of plugging free/sponsored gear a little bit, but I don’t really watch for that. Although TJ’s review of the Ruroc was unintentionally hilarious. 

Kevin (from SPC, not Angry) and Avran are total opposites. From what I can tell, if you catch a lift with Kevin he will chat you up and maybe even selfie/film with you. Avran will call you a fucking idiot and push you off the lift. :rofl3:


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## speedjason (May 2, 2013)

F1EA said:


> Absolutely not. Actually, the moment Angrysnowboarder start showing riding with reviews, the whole review thing will shift focus into THEIR riding. And of course the next step will circle everyone back to the same shithole the snowboard industry has created by fooling people into listening to "pro riders". The fact you can double flipitty spin doesn't mean you know about... whatever.
> 
> If someone goes by TJ's reviews, they will be riding Unions and whichever board he rode in the most awesome powder day ever in Whistler.
> 
> And by the way... i really wish Snowboard Pro camp moved to Colorado...


I don't if you guys watch Stale Sandbech's videos. I think recently he went to a ROME marketing meeting and the guys were showing some of the new products. He didn't know he could adjust his binding in certain ways and stuff. You be surprised some of the pro's don't really pay too much attention on how to adjust some of the stuff. They just get used to whatever.


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## cliffjumper68 (Nov 30, 2018)

Your killin it BA, suggestion: create a $50/mo tier called "Angriest Snowboarder Club" do a club beanie


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## MrDavey2Shoes (Mar 5, 2018)

I love these guys. I find them way more informative, knowledgeable and easier to follow than some of the other guys who seem to use stream of thought and talk in circles. I like that Kevin and Avran clearly think out what they want to articulate before turning on the camera for the reviews. I've watched the Tom Sims Pro review like 25 times lol. (Fuck, I really want last years model)

I wish there was riding footage and more regularly posted content, but I've got my instagram feed for riding edits.


Keep up the great work...and put that retro sweatshirt back up for sale!


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## deagol (Mar 26, 2014)

MrDavey2Shoes said:


> I.....guys who seem to use stream of thought and talk in circles. ...


This is a really good point and describes soo many channels on YouTube- well into the mainstream channels. And, of course, the mandatory "_please *SMASH* the like button, and don't forget to subscribe_"


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## MMSlasher (Mar 18, 2016)

deagol said:


> This is a really good point and describes soo many channels on YouTube- well into the mainstream channels. And, of course, the mandatory "_please *SMASH* the like button, and don't forget to subscribe_"


That is the most annoying part of any video.

On the topic of the podcasts, I haven't listen to them, but I would imagine that they are similar to "this week in snowboarding" or whatever it was called. I watched a few of those and they were enjoyable.

On to the reviewers of snowboards, some people could do better and some already do a good job. I like TGRs website and the ability to look at similar boards, and the older versions of the board. I absolutely can't stand the way they do their 'on the snow' format of reviews. They might be great guys, but they need to straight stop with all the goofing off not pertaining to the board. Oh and is that wind I hear, a shitty mic, thanks. I really wanted to listen to the wind while watching your video.

SCP and TBA do a decent job, but they don't really do the number of boards that others do. I enjoy their other videos on locations, but just stay up there in Canada and please don't show the mountain I ride again, it is already crowded enough. We don't need anymore people here. And, just from the few board reviews that I have watched, they seem to like everything. They also seem like nice guys that I would love to rail turns with, but I'm not sure I would use their advice to purchase a board. Although the great thing about them is, I'm sure they have helped a ton of people with their snowboarding and that is awesome. 

I've watched a few Tactics board reviews and they seem to have great thing going. It feels like they are doing more reviews this year and they are perfect. Not long, something like 2ish minutes, they show the board, talk about it and take the board out for a ride. I'm really impressed, I've seen a few boards that shouldn't be hitting small jumps and the board handles it. Sure, the rider is better than average, but it shows that boards don't need to be pigeon holed into certain roles. I hope they keep that up. (Kind of like that video of that guy riding the Bataleon Surfer all over the groomers and park, and not a bit of powder). That really showed that it could be fun most of the time.

Angrys videos are nice, but they are a little too long. I find myself skipping the intros often (it's nearly 20 seconds long), and the last minute. I love the sheer amount of boards he is able to ride and then critique, which make Patreon great, so I hope he can continue to do so.

Wow, that got longer than I meant for it to.


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## BurtonAvenger (Aug 14, 2007)

jerry gnarcia said:


> Yeah I get it. I could come up with a hundred things I’d like to see. But I’m sure a hundred different people have their own 2 cents, experimenting takes resources, it’s not obvious what will be viable and most ideas probably won’t work out, everything costs money and time, and getting sponsors while trying to be unbiased is a tricky dance.
> 
> Plus, being a good thorough reviewer isn’t necessarily the same skill as being a good youtube personality.
> 
> ...


1. Thanks for being a VIP member that seriously funds so much stuff. 
2. I'm so over chasing advertisers, I actually let our ad sales guy go. He did a good job, but I looked at the 20% commission I was paying him for it vs how much work we put in and I just said fuck it. If they're not going to support us, which has been the story of the last 9 years, why should I chase them when we could just pump that time into doing other content.

We're toying with T-shirt club. It's an idea I've always thought of, but implementation is going to be a bit more time consuming. We'd have to see a demand for it before it would be rolled out, but we're sitting on a few various designs right now. 

I'm pretty sure my riding this year is so far below the average rider it's not even cool. That knee injury last spring really fucked me up, I have bone on bone grinding in my right knee and my left isn't much better. No amount of rehab, muscle strengthening, cbd, pain relieving cream, and ibuprofen is fixing that. The good days are good, but the bad days are fucking awful. I'm cutting back on my riding this year so I'll probably only get 125 to 150 days give or take as opposed to the usual 200ish. 



deagol said:


> Please no...
> 
> :frown:


 Eh the amount of YouTubers that are already here it probably wouldn't change the influx of people. 



jerry gnarcia said:


> Just curious, why don’t you like them in Whistler? Because they are blowing up spots?
> 
> Kevin (from SPC, not Angry) and Avran are total opposites. From what I can tell, if you catch a lift with Kevin he will chat you up and maybe even selfie/film with you. Avran will call you a fucking idiot and push you off the lift. :rofl3:


They definitely blow spots out. TJ did a video on a tree line at Breck and I got super paranoid he was about to blow out the log jibs that my friends built, thank god he had the names messed up and didn't blow those out. But that's always an issue. I was asked to do a Top 5 hidden/secret/awesome pow runs for CO. My response was NO! Years ago I showed 3 people one of my favorite slackcountry lines at Breck, used to be able to get a solid 10 laps through it on a pow day no one knew about it, was always fun, last time I rode Breck on a pow day it was blown out before 10 a.m. And this was a line you have to know exactly when to field goal between two trees, where to turn, and when to traverse out otherwise you're in a creek bed. 

Also wouldn't push people off a chairlift, that's attempted murder in this state and unless I plead insanity I'm not getting away with it. On the occasion I do get recognized it goes a few different ways, I say my name is Steve and I'm Avran's twin brother, sometimes they buy it, I say I have to take this phone call and then talk to myself about something that doesn't matter, or I slap a high five and skate away awkwardly. 

My theory on the whole YouTuber/Internet Persona thing is there's a very fine line between being cool and being creepy. I've had three stalkers in the past. One showed up to my job and tried to fight a coworker because I wasn't there, dude was butt hurt over a review I wrote. One figured out the complex I lived in but couldn't figure out which condo I was in and the final one I think was just a bit over zealous and had some mental issues that made him want to Buffalo Bill me. I'm not down to be anyone's skin suit. Donna from PsychIRL on YouTube did a great video on the stalker scenario recently. 

I'm a super private person and like being alone. Hell more than 95% of the days I ride I'm solo. Kevin and I maybe ride together 10 days a year and that's usually demo days/SIA/Can Kevin Carve It. I wish more people would realize that, we talk about it enough. We are going to try to set up some days where we'll do little meet and greets to ride, thinking maybe a week from this Saturday at Copper and I might do an A Basin beach party and rent a spot there, plus something in Utah, and finally maybe a day up at Hood in the spring if I head up there with Crobar and Casey Willax. 



speedjason said:


> I don't if you guys watch Stale Sandbech's videos. I think recently he went to a ROME marketing meeting and the guys were showing some of the new products. He didn't know he could adjust his binding in certain ways and stuff. You be surprised some of the pro's don't really pay too much attention on how to adjust some of the stuff. They just get used to whatever.


This happens more than most people know. It's great they can chuck their meat, wouldn't want them designing or selling a product. 



cliffjumper68 said:


> Your killin it BA, suggestion: create a $50/mo tier called "Angriest Snowboarder Club" do a club beanie


Could be an idea, I wasn't too happy with the last round of beanies the cuff was too big. Trying to find something with a smaller cuff. 



MrDavey2Shoes said:


> I love these guys. I find them way more informative, knowledgeable and easier to follow than some of the other guys who seem to use stream of thought and talk in circles. I like that Kevin and Avran clearly think out what they want to articulate before turning on the camera for the reviews. I've watched the Tom Sims Pro review like 25 times lol. (Fuck, I really want last years model)
> 
> I wish there was riding footage and more regularly posted content, but I've got my instagram feed for riding edits.
> 
> ...


So here's the thing we do that's a bit different than most. We have a huge background in written reviews and we haven't phased those out of the equation yet. So we write the reviews out before we film them. We also don't film the reviews on the day we rode anything so there's a bit of time to let things sink in and really articulate it. When I had to redo all the reviews last year after the mass hard drive failures I did that with a concussion. If you watch any of the older reviews you can see I wasn't saying things right (watch the Endeavor Archetype review I couldn't pronounce Archetype right) and my eyes were all over the place, now that I'm slightly better from that you can see there's more articulation in there. But what Kevin and I decided we would do is do everything in one take. This saves times and expedites the editing process as well. Whereas the last round when I was mind fucked I think I filmed 3 clips per review section so it would end up being like 20 clips per review and something like 40 cuts per video vs the new standard of about 15. 

God dammit, no one bought the Retro Sweatshirt! I literally sold 1 out of the 16 I had made. I've been giving them away as gifts/prizes. Now everyone wants one. It's literally the most comfortable sweatshirt we make too!

You should swoop that Tom Sims Pro, pretty sure Sims is getting the plug pulled in the near future. Roach is over on Academy, TK is over on Smokin, all their regional riders here are done. Heard they're just honoring a Japanese contract, but Hillary Sims is done with it. 



deagol said:


> This is a really good point and describes soo many channels on YouTube- well into the mainstream channels. And, of course, the mandatory "_please *SMASH* the like button, and don't forget to subscribe_"


Here's the thing on this, 5 years ago the job title of YouTuber was sort of a fringe/niche thing, in the last 3 years it's become more acceptable. But what it's also done is brought people that only know how to make things as YouTube content and are modeled after what they watched and learned from. Our goal is to eventually get to higher end quality in production, design, and delivery. YouTube might be the medium right now, but who knows if that will change, and believe me I will jump ship the second something better comes along. But for now this is where we're at. My long term goal is to create original content that is more structured and scheduled. I want to run our channel more like a real television network as well as turn our website/social channels more into a news/op ed based snowboard network. I think the big snow media has failed most people in the last few years and is a bit lost and chasing the old method of get sponsors do content/regurgitating too much of the same and I think the new media space (YouTube/insta) is filled with people running quick sprints in a marathon. 

As I said before, I'm working on something to try to pitch ourselves to become a bigger presence and the last 10 years have not been easy to get to this point. It's either going to work or it's going to blow up in our faces and we'll be right back where we started.


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

Angry gets it.

And yes, the SPC guys totally blow spots up and dont stop promoting Whistler. I guess they're hoping to get some sponsoring via Whistler, but c'mon. 

Tons of other youtubbers but these guys are out there giving specific names and how to get to a bunch of places it's not even funny. It's actually extremely dangerous. This weekend somebody posted a photo of an american tourist who got stuck ass under a creek. Its a kinda hidden area we hit all the time. But most people know about the creek especially if youre hitting it since early season, so most people avoid it. Same with cliffs, drops, etc. 

Basically.... you don't blow spots out. Period. That is a sacred rule and it's not cool at all that they don't get it. I guess getting a few more subscribers is worth it. I stopped even watching their vids. They are SUPER nice guys though. I do wish them all the best, and hope they can go on to cool things .. but cmon. Fight club man. Fight club.

Also, their reviews are pretty meh. A lot of talking, some riding and very little information. Seeing them ride the stuff is nice, but not as useful as people make it out to be. If that were the case, I'll just ride whatever Austin Smith rides.


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## 16gkid (Dec 5, 2012)

F1EA said:


> Angry gets it.
> 
> And yes, the SPC guys totally blow spots up and dont stop promoting Whistler. I guess they're hoping to get some sponsoring via Whistler, but c'mon.
> 
> ...


Super nice guys, but fuck them and everything they do, GOT IT, you sound like like an old bitter man


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## 16gkid (Dec 5, 2012)

I just checked, Procamp has 377,914 subscribers, none of the other vloggers are even fucking close to those numbers, I would say theres plenty of people that like their "MEH" reviews, u guys are too fucking funny :grin:


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## Radialhead (Jan 3, 2018)

BurtonAvenger said:


> I'm pretty sure my riding this year is so far below the average rider it's not even cool. That knee injury last spring really fucked me up, I have bone on bone grinding in my right knee and my left isn't much better. No amount of rehab, muscle strengthening, cbd, pain relieving cream, and ibuprofen is fixing that. The good days are good, but the bad days are fucking awful.


No idea if you've looked into it or if it's even an option where you are, but I know someone with similar sounding knee problems who eventually had them sorted with stem cell regeneration. Hope you get it sorted one way or another.


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

16gkid said:


> Super nice guys, but fuck them and everything they do, GOT IT, you sound like like an old bitter man


Sure.

Now continue along your way son.


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## 16gkid (Dec 5, 2012)

F1EA said:


> Sure.
> 
> Now continue along your way son.


Hey at least ur a super nice guy:wink:


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

16gkid said:


> I just checked, Procamp has 377,914 subscribers, none of the other vloggers are even fucking close to those numbers, I would say theres plenty of people that like their "MEH" reviews, u guys are too fucking funny :grin:


And Justin Bieber has 42 fucking Million subscribers.

(I only said fucking to relate with you).


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

16gkid said:


> Hey at least ur a super nice guy:wink:


I make no claims.


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## coloradodirtbag (Feb 9, 2017)

F1EA said:


> And Justin Bieber has 42 fucking Million subscribers.
> 
> (I only said fucking to relate with you).


Fuck Snowboard Kook Kamp


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## 16gkid (Dec 5, 2012)

F1EA said:


> And Justin Bieber has 42 fucking Million subscribers.
> 
> (I only said fucking to relate with you).


I hear he has a sweet method though


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## 16gkid (Dec 5, 2012)

coloradodirtbag said:


> Fuck Snowboard Kook Kamp


Yeah fuck those scumbags


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## jerry gnarcia (Feb 11, 2017)

F1EA said:


> Angry gets it.
> 
> And yes, the SPC guys totally blow spots up and dont stop promoting Whistler. I guess they're hoping to get some sponsoring via Whistler, but c'mon.
> 
> ...


Are you talking about the guy who went too far in K****r? I haven’t seen SPC talk about that area (but I haven’t seen all their vids). And tourists have been getting lost in there forever. They talk about Spanky’s but that’s a marked run that everyone knows about, in all the guide books, etc. They did kinda blow up C****** to access G*** though I guess? 

Not sure if I need to censor those names but don’t want to get the wrath from locals so doing it to be safe. Seems like they are pretty well known.


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

16gkid said:


> I hear he has a sweet method though


The Biebs!!
Legend.



jerry gnarcia said:


> Are you talking about the guy who went too far in K****r? I haven’t seen SPC talk about that area (but I haven’t seen all their vids). And tourists have been getting lost in there forever. They talk about Spanky’s but that’s a marked run that everyone knows about, in all the guide books, etc. They did kinda blow up C****** to access G*** though I guess?
> 
> Not sure if I need to censor those names but don’t want to get the wrath from locals so doing it to be safe. Seems like they are pretty well known.


I refer more as "in general". They talk in all their videos about specifics; we're in this zone, such lift and to the right, traverse, hike here then such and such... etc. Add to that a typical catchy Youtube clickbaity title like Deepest snow ever in Whistler !! and you get hundreds of people from who knows where following the same without an idea what the risks are or what hazards they had to clear to get there, and it's a recipe for shit to happen.

I guess that earns them views and subscribers. Good for them. Hopefully they move to CO  i hear its awesome.

And yes they've made videos about that area.


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## jerry gnarcia (Feb 11, 2017)

Yeah good point. I guess even if they aren't secrets locally, it's one thing to already be in the area and learn of them, it's another to draw an international audience with hype and send them right to those spots. They also make it seem like whistler is never ending deep fluff, so it's likely to draw more people based on an unrealistic idea of it. People watching don't realize how often the bottom half is rain or refrozen junk and how often the alpine is closed either due to wind or avy work, so that isn't helping.

Back on the topic of Angry VIP clubs, what about Angry Wax club  That's something everybody goes through and has to buy anyway. Like dollar shave club, but with wax.

Or like a $100 blow up the spot tier, where you get access to vids of all the secret spots


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## cliffjumper68 (Nov 30, 2018)

F1EA said:


> Sure.
> 
> Now continue along your way son.


and get off my lawn!!!!!!!>


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## chomps1211 (Mar 30, 2011)

TBH,.. I've watched a few of those SPC vids from Whistler. I tuned in for the POW. I didn't really think about about whether they were revealing secret stashes or not. 

But then,.. IMO, Those guys do too much talking and not enough riding. As a result I usually fast forward thru most of their vids to get to the riding. :shrug:


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## Argo (Feb 25, 2010)

16gkid said:


> I just checked, Procamp has 377,914 subscribers, none of the other vloggers are even fucking close to those numbers, I would say theres plenty of people that like their "MEH" reviews, u guys are too fucking funny :grin:


Got to meet and ride a couple days with them. My son was showing them around and is in their bachelor video. Super nice guys, We still keep in touch. They cater to the masses of snowboarding, not the "core" riders.... I don't personally watch their videos for reviews, or any other reviews for that matter, I like their content style and im sure thats why others like it too. They gets some fun riding, content and a product showcase. F1 just doesnt like people on his lawn and would spray them with the water hose for crossing his grass..... even if its the corner of a public park.


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

Argo said:


> Got to meet and ride a couple days with them. My son was showing them around and is in their bachelor video. Super nice guys, We still keep in touch. They cater to the masses of snowboarding, not the "core" riders.... I don't personally watch their videos for reviews, or any other reviews for that matter, I like their content style and im sure thats why others like it too. They gets some fun riding, content and a product showcase. F1 just doesnt like people on his lawn and would spray them with the water hose for crossing his grass..... even if its the corner of a public park.


Lol
I'm as far from "core" as anyone can get. 
I even had a pair of Unions and returned them.

Cant wait for SBPC Mt. Bachelor edition.


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## deagol (Mar 26, 2014)

F1EA said:


> ….. Hopefully they move to CO  i hear its awesome.
> 
> And yes they've made videos about that area.


Yeah, saw those vids. They claimed similar untrue things about certain areas here (particularly on steepness). 
I am sure they are nice guys. But we already have 5 times too many people here. We certainly don't need even more attention.


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

deagol said:


> Yeah, saw those vids. They claimed similar untrue things about certain areas here (particularly on steepness).
> I am sure they are nice guys. But we already have 5 times too many people here. We certainly don't need even more attention.


Yeah, it's nothing specifically against them. I simply don't like the channel. Do I HAVE to like it now? :shrug: I must have missed the memo.

Add to that the constant advertising for the most crowded resort in Canada and yeah... it's kind of annoying.

But suddenly you get 16gkid going all overboard with hate comments... geez. Chill out bro. 
or wait a minute.... are you TJ? 
In that case, can I get your autograph?


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## deagol (Mar 26, 2014)

F1EA said:


> Yeah, it's nothing specifically against them. I simply don't like the channel. Do I HAVE to like it now? :shrug: I must have missed the memo.
> 
> Add to that the constant advertising for the most crowded resort in Canada and yeah... it's kind of annoying.
> 
> ...


depends on how PC you wanna be....


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## BurtonAvenger (Aug 14, 2007)

As "angry" as I am and as much as I spew hate at select groups I really don't like the fact this is more or less turning into a shit on SPC and BA/TJ thread. 



MMSlasher said:


> On the topic of the podcasts, I haven't listen to them, but I would imagine that they are similar to "this week in snowboarding" or whatever it was called. I watched a few of those and they were enjoyable.
> 
> Angrys videos are nice, but they are a little too long. I find myself skipping the intros often (it's nearly 20 seconds long), and the last minute. I love the sheer amount of boards he is able to ride and then critique, which make Patreon great, so I hope he can continue to do so.


Last Week, This Week was an entirely different beast than any podcast we've done. I miss doing that show so fucking much it was such a blast to do. The Podcasts are more deep dives, topics at hand, and discussion based as there's two of us. Plus depending on how many segments we record it can make up 1 to 2 weeks of daily content I don't have to promote on social media, it just filters into the YouTube algorithm. 

Well if you checked any of the reviews that started this fall you'll notice right away, no intro. But that intro needed to exist to see if it was worth it. Everything we do regardless of what people think has a metric I check and see. I can tell when something is working and something isn't. I can see how fast or slow people are to grasp what the video is doing and tweak it as necessary going forward. It's a giant learning process for the most part because we did written content for 8 plus years. 



F1EA said:


> Angry gets it.
> 
> And yes, the SPC guys totally blow spots up and dont stop promoting Whistler. I guess they're hoping to get some sponsoring via Whistler, but c'mon.
> 
> ...


It is solely your job to keep them in check. People need to hold them accountable. I won't deny that they literally do what they're doing for views,subs, or instagram. That is something I will never do. I watched what happened in Steamboat when I lived there and the pirate map came out. That dude literally got ran out of town and had death threats on his life. 



16gkid said:


> I just checked, Procamp has 377,914 subscribers, none of the other vloggers are even fucking close to those numbers, I would say theres plenty of people that like their "MEH" reviews, u guys are too fucking funny :grin:


You have to take into account that Kevin started SPC like 8 years ago and was able to be one of the first in. The early adopts generally get the biggest audience initially, their issue is going to be where do they go with it. Kevin alone would not be able to create a viable reviewer model, that's where TJ comes in he has more shop experience and gear knowledge. Their issue is that they're at the stage of "don't bite the hand that feeds them" and everything becomes good. They're essentially Internet hype men, seen lots of people do this over the years, the rebound from this when the band snaps is never good. The other thing is they're running a sprint not a marathon, you'll never see them do a whole month devoted to custom boot fitting or anything like that. They don't have the skill set to do it. 

The biggest issue that I think they truthfully face is they need a brand manager/ad sales person. They are at this point where they should have a YouTube brand manager who is getting them advertisers. They've surpassed the Silver Play button phase and yet haven't seen mention of that. Numbers-wise they should be making a higher profit than they are and there should be more endorsement deals. On the inside as I personally know like everyone in the snowboard industry I keep getting asked about them. Everyone wants to know what the deal is but they don't want to work with them. That's a huge boon to them. They literally should have companies banging down their door to work with them. They're not, this is not good for them. Their reliance on the YouTube and then affiliate followed by Patreon income will hurt them down the road. 



Radialhead said:


> No idea if you've looked into it or if it's even an option where you are, but I know someone with similar sounding knee problems who eventually had them sorted with stem cell regeneration. Hope you get it sorted one way or another.


Looked into it, it's going to be about 4 grand for the treatment outside the U.S. plus travel, lodging, etc. etc. so all said and done that's about 10 grand for me to get it done by the leading Dr. team. I don't fuck around when it comes to this so I've been doing my research. As I stated I'm managing, but I don't have many years like this left. One wrong twist and poof my knee is toast. 



F1EA said:


> The Biebs!!
> Legend.
> 
> 
> ...


Colorado is already blown out. Between Buckhouse and other people the market is saturated. They could move here, but I doubt Kevin would because the taxes would be higher than what Canada is charging him, plus there's other things most people don't take into consideration. 



jerry gnarcia said:


> Back on the topic of Angry VIP clubs, what about Angry Wax club  That's something everybody goes through and has to buy anyway. Like dollar shave club, but with wax.
> 
> Or like a $100 blow up the spot tier, where you get access to vids of all the secret spots


Well little known fact, I don't wax snowboards anymore. Stopped years ago, don't believe in it. Structure only. 



chomps1211 said:


> TBH,.. I've watched a few of those SPC vids from Whistler. I tuned in for the POW. I didn't really think about about whether they were revealing secret stashes or not.
> 
> But then,.. IMO, Those guys do too much talking and not enough riding. As a result I usually fast forward thru most of their vids to get to the riding. :shrug:


This is one of their things, they make a video that's padded. When they were in NZ talking about riding "epic pow" no one caught on that they literally hiked up then rode down next to their boot pack. They showed a face and view, but then rode down next to the hike. They're padding their videos for run time which on the YouTube algorithm gets you a better ad rate or searchability. The other thing is they're vloggers whether they admit it or not. That is what they do first and foremost. 



deagol said:


> Yeah, saw those vids. They claimed similar untrue things about certain areas here (particularly on steepness).
> I am sure they are nice guys. But we already have 5 times too many people here. We certainly don't need even more attention.


Oh god that video on A Basin was so cringeworthy. Claim was completely wrong and that area was in a low tide situation, I personally wouldn't have wasted my time riding that. But as already stated CO is blown out. 



F1EA said:


> Yeah, it's nothing specifically against them. I simply don't like the channel. Do I HAVE to like it now? :shrug: I must have missed the memo.
> 
> Add to that the constant advertising for the most crowded resort in Canada and yeah... it's kind of annoying.
> 
> ...


You can get my autograph! 

It's fine to not like them. I don't watch 98% of the stuff they put out. I still stick to my guns that everyone should start calling them out for blowing out spots and turning people on to areas they're not ready for. But people should also take onus for their actions and repercussions. 

Kevin and I are still figuring out at least 2 meet and greet/shred days. If/when we do it yeah I'll show some people some fun stuff I ride regularly. Doesn't mean we're going to vlog it out to the world.


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## jerry gnarcia (Feb 11, 2017)

F1EA said:


> Angry gets it.
> 
> And yes, the SPC guys totally blow spots up and dont stop promoting Whistler. I guess they're hoping to get some sponsoring via Whistler, but c'mon.
> 
> ...


Now their occasional featured guests are trying to do the youtube thing themselves, and one just posted this right through there: 
Edit: Nevermind, not linking to it. It's on Chris Eyres channel posted Jan 9th.

:|

_
"Nice video Chris! One thing is that I know so much about Whistler mountain already from you, Kevin, TJ, etc... The funny thing is that I’m not even from Canada, I’m from New Zealand hahahahaha"_


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## Minty22 (Mar 19, 2018)

Back on to the original topic of this thread...

I really enjoy the podcasts, as someone who is relatively late starter with snowboarding and not living within 6 hours of any snowboardable terrain they are very educational to the whole current, past and future snowboarding scene, something I wouldn't know about as I have zero friends into snowboarding.

Enjoyed the piece discussing local shops poor online presence and can relate to. I do an annual trip to Banff and have had great service in the 2 local shops there, especially Rudeboys/girls who gave my girlfriend phenomenal advice and service when purchasing new boots a couple of years back. I enjoy spending my equipment money there as you get a level of input and discussion that you just can't get here in the UK (at least locally to me). the frustration I have is I would like to be able to look at their stock before I make the trip over, possibly even pre-purchasing some and getting them to hold it for me but their online shops historically have never been that great so occasionally I shall purchase in the UK online so I know I shall have something when I am there rather than run the risk they don't have the size or item I want.


My 2 pence worth on the whole SPC debate, as someone who only gets to ride for 2 weeks a year but thinks about riding 9 months of the year I enjoy the content that Kevin and TJ put out. I feel that has moved unfortunately away from tutorial side of things to more vlog based. I do think there is enough of a difference between SPC and BoardArchive channels, Kevin talking about the riding and TJ more gear/equipment focused but they are definitely more vlog based now.

I also enjoy that Chris, Kevin and TJ are 3 different levels of rider who most people could relate to at least one of them.

Also watch StaleLife for the sheer beauty and LastResort with Stan as again good to know to get someone else's opinion on the 'scene'

Angry definitely receives the vast majority of my time as I like to consume information and Avran gives you tonnes via either his website or youtube channel. Definitely something I want to financially support, just not sure the .vip does it for me.


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

jerry gnarcia said:


> Now their occasional featured guests are trying to do the youtube thing themselves, and one just posted this right through there:
> Edit: Nevermind, not linking to it. It's on Chris Eyres channel posted Jan 9th.
> 
> :|
> ...


Well... that's not bad at all. They're buddies; he came from NZ and learned about the mountain from riding with his buddies. That's all good.


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## jerry gnarcia (Feb 11, 2017)

F1EA said:


> Well... that's not bad at all. They're buddies; he came from NZ and learned about the mountain from riding with his buddies. That's all good.


I think you misunderstood the paste because I did that confusingly.

Chris made a detailed vid of him going in there.

Some random youtube commenter posted that comment on the video. As in, they are blowing out places to audiences far and wide, and people who haven’t even been to Whistler are saying they feel like they know it all now. That’s not good.


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

jerry gnarcia said:


> I think you misunderstood the paste because I did that confusingly.
> 
> Chris made a detailed vid of him going in there.
> 
> Some random youtube commenter posted that comment on the video. As in, they are blowing out places to audiences far and wide, and people who haven’t even been to Whistler are saying they feel like they know it all now. That’s not good.


Oh shit, I didnt understand your post before. Just saw the video, and yeah that's bad.
Damn those guys.


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## BurtonAvenger (Aug 14, 2007)

It's a matter of time before they or some other YouTuber get someone killed. I see this coming in the future. Someone with an inability to be in certain terrain or the knowledge to know what the terrain is like will either fall into a terrain trap or go into a tree well. There's a responsibility to your local scene that everyone should understand and there's a responsibility to the snowboarders of the Internet to protect them from themselves. There's a gray area in the middle where these two converge and you have to tow a fine line. 

I'll be curious to see how this shakes out. 

I can't tell you how many times I pulled people out of creek beds at Breck because the people didn't know the run out was that gnarly and had followed the advice or someones track in.


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

BurtonAvenger said:


> It's a matter of time before they or some other YouTuber get someone killed. I see this coming in the future. Someone with an inability to be in certain terrain or the knowledge to know what the terrain is like will either fall into a terrain trap or go into a tree well. There's a responsibility to your local scene that everyone should understand and there's a responsibility to the snowboarders of the Internet to protect them from themselves. There's a gray area in the middle where these two converge and you have to tow a fine line.
> 
> I'll be curious to see how this shakes out.
> 
> I can't tell you how many times I pulled people out of creek beds at Breck because the people didn't know the run out was that gnarly and had followed the advice or someones track in.


I bet it already happens; but nobody is going to say "I saw this on Youtube" when they get rescued or worse.

At least he pinned a post urging ppl not to go without being guided... but you can't be giving people specific directions, post a "whoa best powder ever" video and then expect people not to go...

Ah well. In the era of Like, Share, Comment and Subscribe it's cool to see AngrySnowboarder is still trying to put out ACTUAL content...


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## BurtonAvenger (Aug 14, 2007)

Content will always be king. When you play the long game, you never look like you're winning.


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## ridethecliche (Feb 27, 2019)

"and it turns side hits into megabooters. Seriously. Buy this fucking thing."


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## buller_scott (Jun 10, 2018)

Interesting, this whole thing of "social media influencers" blowing up spots. Not good. Obviously most of the influencers mean well, but if that's a tangible end result, that's a real shame.

I met a cool American guy in Japan recently, when I was in.................................................................................................................................................................. Niseko, right next to the Levi's store, in-between the McDonalds and the British pub [staffed entirely by Aussies, which is actually very authentic]. He'd been there for 6 months, working remotely, and never bought day passes, nor did he have a season pass - he would only buy enough points to get to the top of the hill, so he could ride / skin out, off piste, back to the village.

He's fascinated by topography and hiking/mountaineering [as a background], and so on and off, he'd spent the last 6 months mapping out tracks to get from the top of the hill, down into the village, without getting into flat terrain / creeks / hitting the number of 50ft cliffs off the back of the hill. 

He had everything documented, and was a c7nt hair away from putting it up online, but he didn't. Why? His words were something along the lines of "locals showed me this stuff, when they realised I'm here for a while. I just felt that to put my stuff online, so that hoards of people could fly in and follow my lines on their cell phones - no effort, just come in, look at your phone, rape the place, then go back home - would have been a huge disservice to the locals who had literally spent decades mapping these lines, hiking for hours and hours, day after day, year after year, so that they could enjoy being in the mountains, away from it all. To put it up for foreigners / English-only speakers, would have been to spit in the face of locals". 

Pretty true. 

F1EA, if you ever get tired of Whistler being blown up, and if you're ever in Australia, I'll show you around Mt. Buller - at least they've got live entertainment to help take the edge off the lift queue times:


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## Myoko (Dec 11, 2018)

[B said:


> ]I can't tell you how many times I pulled people out of creek beds at Breck because the people didn't know the run out was that gnarly and had followed the advice or someone's track in.


Pretty serious situation and something I have NO experience in as I'm a bit paranoid about getting out having learnt lessons the hard way. 

Side note, why is it that I feel more comfortable having scoped things out following a couple of skiers tracks than a snowboarder's tracks? 

I think there are more balanced reviewers than Angry nowadays. I get the impression he has been there that long he knows 'everything' about something before he even rides or tests it probably. Mind you, the other guy is funny as.


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## poser (Mar 7, 2018)

Some local kid here, who is likely a college student only here for a couple of years, has been documenting his favorite runs on YouTube at one of my local areas, even going so far as to reveal his “powder stashes” by name, pointing out how to get to unmarked cliff lines and smoke shacks. Essentially, a person can watch a couple of his videos, show up for the first time and hit spots that would otherwise require intimate local knowledge. It’s frustrating and I have a hard time imagining what this kid is possibly getting out of these videos -they only have 30-50 views each, but if that sends 10 extra Folks down a “secret” tree run on a Saturday, then the cat is out of the bag. His riding is very mediocre, it’s just that someone showed him many of the secrets at some point and he feels compelled to share them with the world. In a year he’ll be gone forever and the townie locals will be stuck dealing with tourists skiing out the secrets stashes for years to come. It sucks.


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## buller_scott (Jun 10, 2018)

poser said:


> Some local kid here, who is likely a college student only here for a couple of years, has been documenting his favorite runs on YouTube at one of my local areas, even going so far as to reveal his “powder stashes” by name, pointing out how to get to unmarked cliff lines and smoke shacks. Essentially, a person can watch a couple of his videos, show up for the first time and hit spots that would otherwise require intimate local knowledge. It’s frustrating and I have a hard time imagining what this kid is possibly getting out of these videos -they only have 30-50 views each, but if that sends 10 extra Folks down a “secret” tree run on a Saturday, then the cat is out of the bag. His riding is very mediocre, it’s just that someone showed him many of the secrets at some point and he feels compelled to share them with the world. In a year he’ll be gone forever and the townie locals will be stuck dealing with tourists skiing out the secrets stashes for years to come. It sucks.


I feel your pain, and that's the sad thing - something that's built on the passion and toil of local guys, being turned into something not cherished, but disrespected.

The saddening thing is that with all the connectivity these days, you don't even have to exercise a modicum of preparation - just whip out your phone on the day, Youtube the shit, and in 10 minutes you're snaking what took others 10 years of work to be able to enjoy. 

Snowboarding needs a Fight Club movement. Sorta like POW [Protect Our Winters] - Maybe POPFART? [Protect Our Pistes From Asshole Random Tourists]


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