# Why are there no bad gear reviews?



## Jomas (Apr 23, 2012)

Ok so blaming your equipment shows poor form.

But some boards, bindings boots googles and other gear are shite. Badly made, overpriced or not functional.

So how come I never (hardly ever) see a gear report that says so? Everyone is stoked with their gear, and I am glad they are, but where can we find info on the gear to watch out for?

Its obvious that the gear review websites are biased or at the very least, very careful in picking their words but we need to see more objectivity in reviews. 

Take the good boys at Top Gear (UK edition) - they are brutally honest in their reviews, and people can truly use them for reference. We need that in our sports too...


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## CheeseForSteeze (May 11, 2011)

Because most reviewers are corrupted by conflict of interest. Most of them get free stuff by giving out generous reviews or at least not completely accurate reviews; mentioning or over-emphasizing any positive qualities and omitting negative aspects.


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## mani (Feb 6, 2010)

CheeseForSteeze said:


> Because most reviewers are corrupted by conflict of interest. Most of them get free stuff by giving out generous reviews or at least not completely accurate reviews; mentioning or over-emphasizing any positive qualities and omitting negative aspects.


You are on a forum for snowboarding, which for the most part means people are really into the sport and do research. They are not going to buy the POS stuff for the most part. Look at the reviews, for the most part it is all high end equipment, very few entry level or garbage brands. 

And there is the factor that someone either spent their money or someone gave them the product so the review process will be biased to some extent with some reviewers.


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## david_z (Dec 14, 2009)

Jomas said:


> Everyone is stoked with their gear, and I am glad they are...


Two separate considerations... one is the 'review' posted by Average Joe Snowboarder. The other is reviews published by "professionals".

The average dude snowboarding gets his new board and is just psyched he's got a new board and he's going to go out and ride the fuck out of it and have fun, unless it's a total lemon. It is a form of cognitive bias like post-purchase rationalization, basically the opposite of buyer's remorse. In my day job doing market research on the automotive industry we see the same thing when we analyze customer satisfaction with recent vehicle purchases. Customer presumably liked it enough after the test drive or whatever, to spend a bunch of $$$ on it and until/unless something goes wrong, their sentiment isn't likely to change very much especially in the first few months of use. Not only that, but they will go out of their way to subconsciously rationalize any perceived negatives, in order to not feel that nasty buyer's remorse feeling.

This guy only rides 10 or so days a year. Most people don't ride 30 or 50 or 100 days a year. As a result, he's simply not going to notice the little nuances of a board that someone with more experience might notice and dislike. And even if there are little things he doesn't like, he probably is going to try and suppress that feeling anyways.

So, when you're reading the "I just bought my new AWESOME-O SNOWBOARD and I f*ckin' love it!" thread on this forum or somewhere else, it's gonna be really, really, really rare that you find one where the person is dissatisfied with their recent purchase. 



Jomas said:


> where can we find info on the gear to watch out for?


Now about the "professional" reviewers... There are relatively few people who score tons of free product for reviews. Yes, it happens and Leo & I have gotten some of these but they're few and far between. This is not to say that bias or conflict of interest doesn't exist at all. It certainly does. The big magazines buyer's guides are essentially paid advertorials. And there are sites out there and I won't mention any names but it's like every board they ride is the best board in the world. If you get that impression from a review site, that's your cue to ignore their data as unreliable.

Angry Snowboarder isn't afraid to say something sucks and is what I would call "brutally honest". He also knows his shit as good or better than any review site out there. Leo & I aren't afraid to talk about aspects that we don't like, although we may not be as salty about the negatives. Personally, when I strap in to review a board I'm not necessarily riding it for _me_. Some boards out there that I didn't personally like, but that doesn't mean they're not the right board for someone else, so Leo & I try not to put our own opinion/bias in to the reviews.


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## CheeseForSteeze (May 11, 2011)

mani said:


> You are on a forum for snowboarding, which for the most part means people are really into the sport and do research. They are not going to buy the POS stuff for the most part. Look at the reviews, for the most part it is all high end equipment, very few entry level or garbage brands.
> 
> And there is the factor that someone either spent their money or someone gave them the product so the review process will be biased to some extent with some reviewers.


We're also not talking about reviews on this message board, we're talking about reviews done by gear websites. The conflict of interest exists because these gear websites get their gear to review FREE from the manufacturer.

My primary source of information when it comes to figuring out which gear I like or don't like is based on firsthand experience: go demo it. Then I use BA's site, aGNARchy, All Black though he doesn't do reviews any more and a few select others who's personal character I at least know to a degree well enough to read between the lines and extract the information I need. For example, Nivek finds the Arbor Draft too noodly; I think it's a great park cruiser but just needs a shade more beef.

We all have different things that we look for in boards and you have to take the time to read into the review (or don't read into too much, as the case my be) to extract the useful info that will help you.


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## Donutz (May 12, 2010)

Although formal reviews might tend to be positive, if you're just looking for users' opinions on stuff I think you'll find a lot of negative comments as well. People might not say "it's a POS" but they might say "I wish it had more pop". Just need to read between the lines -- faint praise can be as good as a criticism.


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## sabatoa (Jan 18, 2011)

david_z said:


> Two separate considerations... one is the 'review' posted by Average Joe Snowboarder. The other is reviews published by "professionals".
> 
> The average dude snowboarding gets his new board and is just psyched he's got a new board and he's going to go out and ride the fuck out of it and have fun, unless it's a total lemon. It is a form of cognitive bias like post-purchase rationalization, basically the opposite of buyer's remorse. In my day job doing market research on the automotive industry we see the same thing when we analyze customer satisfaction with recent vehicle purchases. Customer presumably liked it enough after the test drive or whatever, to spend a bunch of $$$ on it and until/unless something goes wrong, their sentiment isn't likely to change very much especially in the first few months of use. Not only that, but they will go out of their way to subconsciously rationalize any perceived negatives, in order to not feel that nasty buyer's remorse feeling.
> 
> ...


I've been waiting for the day you guys review a real piece of crap. 

Wanna review my Lamar Legend? It's the board I'm taking with me when we're at Misfits (don't want to mess up my NS Legacy on the fake snow)


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## mixie (Mar 29, 2011)

While a lot of reviews never have anything negative to say about the product for political reasons, it is often easy to read between the lines. 



I read a lot of shayboarder reviews because her and I are about the same size and wear the same size boot. And until recently we even rode at the same home mtn. (I actually seen her on the mtn , recognized her and said hi!. She's cool) 

anyway, she never has anything overly negative to say. But you can infer a products negative features or aspects if you read closely. 


She often gushes about products she LOVES. So, to me, unless a review is glowing with praise I take it with a grain of salt. Also, I know what I want and what I like so I am able to weed thru info to see if the gear shines at the features *I* care about. 



But.... I gotta say. DEMO DEMO DEMO. I read probably 100 board reviews, really. Then I narrowed it down to 3 to demo and you know what? 



My interpretation of how the board rode was often different from reviews. It helps narrow down selection but nothing beats demoing yer gear. It's really, REALLY worth he extra $ IMHO. 


oh, but I ride over 50 days a year so I guess I fall out side the norm? Also, I demoed the GNU B Pro. HATED it. If you like I will write up a negative review but that was more due to it not being the kind of board I wanted and it was not the best board for the conditions I demoed it in.


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## BurtonAvenger (Aug 14, 2007)

This thread is just full of win.


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## david_z (Dec 14, 2009)

you're full of win.


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## BurtonAvenger (Aug 14, 2007)

no I'm full of piss and vinegar. Now I need to go ride one of my many free snowboards and binding set ups and give it nothing but rave reviews.


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## killclimbz (Aug 10, 2007)

BurtonAvenger said:


> no I'm full of piss and vinegar. Now I need to go ride one of my many free snowboards and binding set ups and give it nothing but rave reviews.


FKNA... :thumbsup:


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## BoardWalk (Mar 22, 2011)

BurtonAvenger said:


> no I'm full of piss and vinegar. Now I need to go ride one of my many free snowboards and binding set ups and give it nothing but rave reviews.


Don't forget to wax...the board too...


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## Whoracle (Feb 6, 2012)

Jomas said:


> Ok so blaming your equipment shows poor form.
> 
> But some boards, bindings boots googles and other gear are shite. Badly made, overpriced or not functional.
> 
> ...


If you really take whay they say about cars on Top Gear seriously, then you need to get checked out. That show is so biased, yet you are saying snowboard reviews are biased? LOL.


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## Jomas (Apr 23, 2012)

I dont watch much tv at all so I've only seen a few episodes, from what I saw they really ripped into some of the cars. But anybody would know better than me. 

The rave reviews of stoke on everything need to go.

David Z hit the nail on the head, but if people are concious of these stupid consumer culture generated thought processes we can deactivate them. Ive just started buying my own gear and feel I can't wait to review my new board(s) bindings(s) and boots...Gotta wait until the summer glacier stations open up though...


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## killclimbz (Aug 10, 2007)

So you are saying that the gear you bought probably sucks?


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## Jomas (Apr 23, 2012)

Maybe? Who knows??? I let you know as soon as I get test it. 

Fitwell Backcountry boots - suited to the kind of riding I will be doing, mostly spliboarding and BC touring. Reviews rave and rage.
Karakoram bindings - a splitboard binding which I will probably also be using on the Phoenix with a DIY base plate. Reviews rage and rave.
Lando Phoenix board - no user reviews. The tech specs on paper appeal to me and found a great deal.
Voile Swallowtail splitboard - reviews tend to be done by swallowtail enthusiasts, who are a breed unto their own.

Still looking for a more mellow splitboard, possibly a Jones Hovercraft, Venture Storm, Jones Solution, or something else.

All my choices so far have been influenced by reviews but more by the tech specs of the products, where I live we do not have many of the latest products available and it not so common do get to demo gear, so I have to gamble. 

There's no shame in buying something that doesn't live up to your expectations.


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## poutanen (Dec 22, 2011)

Personal reviews are biased because nobody likes to admit they bought a hunk of shit. To combat buyers remorse people always want to think about all the positives and none of the negatives of the gear they've bought.

Take a look at what I've said about my T7. I've said many times that the topsheet is much more brittle than my previous board. But I've also said it's been driven over by an SUV and it is still kicking too. A good personal review will tend to give more objective data on the board than subjective.

Things like "I weighed it and board X on a scale and it's about 1 pound lighter", instead of "it holds on ice better than anything I've ever rode!!!!"

Another objective review is a racing result. Pretty hard to have a feeling about a timer.


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## AcroPhile (Dec 3, 2010)

I disagree, bad reviews from Average Joe Snowboarder and "professionals" aren't at all that uncommon. I have seen a fair share of less than stellar things said about Arbor boards and various other gear and accessories on this forum and other websites. That being said, barring the occasional bad Arbor review or entry level cheapo snowboard, most boards have disproportionately positive reviews. People seem to be more likely to give a pair of boots, binding, googles or whatever else a more honest and unbiased review, probably because they didn't just spend several hundred dollars on a single piece of equipment and feel the need to justify it.


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## davidj (May 30, 2011)

david_z said:


> The average dude snowboarding gets his new board and is just psyched he's got a new board and he's going to go out and ride the fuck out of it and have fun, unless it's a total lemon. It is a form of cognitive bias like post-purchase rationalization, basically the opposite of buyer's remorse. In my day job doing market research on the automotive industry we see the same thing when we analyze customer satisfaction with recent vehicle purchases. Customer presumably liked it enough after the test drive or whatever, to spend a bunch of $$$ on it and until/unless something goes wrong, their sentiment isn't likely to change very much especially in the first few months of use. Not only that, but they will go out of their way to subconsciously rationalize any perceived negatives, in order to not feel that nasty buyer's remorse feeling.


Yep, I can see that... on the flip side, what about when Joe Shmoe (me) buys a board, starts riding it, a coupla days in he feels like it's nothing to get excited about. Keeps riding, and as things get dialed in gradually, likes the board better and better till it really is everything the "reviewers" have been raving about.


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## dreampow (Sep 26, 2011)

Gotta take any reviews with lots of salt. Everybody has their own preferences and way of expressing stuff, not to mention bias. But then poeple looking at reviews should know this and if they don't:dunno:. 

If you look at a number of sites and reviews on here it can definitely help get you in the ballpark. I can't demo boards here because I refuse to ride weekends. Just can't stand lines and lots of people on the mountain. 

Reviews on here have helped steer me to my latest board an NS proto. Really enjoying the board. 
Would not have even considered it if not for the reviews on here:thumbsup:.


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## CheeseForSteeze (May 11, 2011)

poutanen said:


> Personal reviews are biased because nobody likes to admit they bought a hunk of shit. To combat buyers remorse people always want to think about all the positives and none of the negatives of the gear they've bought.


Most people that snowboard enough to even bother writing reviews don't bother getting shit gear unless it's given to them. Therefore, you will be hard pressed to find very negative reviews.

I've found plenty of things I don't like about all the boards I've ever ridden at demos, borrowed or bought. In fact, I have yet to find a board I'm 90% pleased with.


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## cjcameron11 (Feb 5, 2011)

For what its worth i didn't like my 2010 skunk ape....but i love my gnu riders choice, and just bought a ride berzerker so we will see if thats any good when i ride it. Ohh also hated the k2 cinch. Sooooo yeah hows that for a review


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## readimag (Aug 10, 2011)

^ so true, the more I ride the a board the more I find what holds me back on it and what I want to change. If i get 80% of what I want from a board I am more then happy. I hated the evo on the mtn compared to the blacklist but love the evo more for all park days.


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## dreampow (Sep 26, 2011)

OK so this is like an honesty box. My two cents. My 2011 Ride Highlife (now sold) was great for carving and hitting natural features but the float in pow was not that different from a cambered deck.

Just has a gentle low rise nose that helps a bit but still needed plenty of back leg compared with the proto which has better float at the same length. Also it was too damp for my taste, I like to feel more from the snow.


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## Ollie78 (Apr 14, 2012)

You can always check with the guys in your local resort's shop. They're bound to have demo'd or heard of someone else's demoing of equip, and they've usually had most of the year's best equip. come through. Plus, they've also probably heard countless testimonies. Generally, I'll ask 'em about a particular board and they're like "yeah, I demo'd that', or "a guy I know/friend rode/rides that". I heard both good and bad, from 'em.


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## 2hipp4u (Dec 24, 2010)

I use the internet to research all kinds of things, but you can't just read one review and think your done. Before I bought my k2 raygun or even knew of it I looked for a good beginner board and the raygun kept coming up as a good choice.

You can find a pattern if you look long enough.

Id say demo if possible, but if not research the shit out of it.

Right now I'm looking for a new all mountain board with more edge hold and better performance in the pow then the raygun. I've decided to go with a NS SL after over a month of research and finding one hell of a deal on it.


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## BurtonAvenger (Aug 14, 2007)

CheeseForSteeze said:


> Most people that snowboard enough to even bother writing reviews don't bother getting shit gear unless it's given to them. Therefore, you will be hard pressed to find very negative reviews.
> 
> I've found plenty of things I don't like about all the boards I've ever ridden at demos, borrowed or bought. In fact, I have yet to find a board I'm 90% pleased with.


Truth is most companies don't want you riding shit gear if you do reviews. Harder for me to justify a company sending me a 299 pricepoint deck than a 550 one.


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## ThunderChunky (Oct 1, 2011)

I pick by all the pretty colors on the board. What's rocker anyway?


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## poutanen (Dec 22, 2011)

ThunderChunky said:


> I pick by all the pretty colors on the board. What's rocker anyway?


Rocker...


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## loren646 (Dec 9, 2009)

i worked for a company that reviewed products we weren't allowed to write anything overtly negative and got incentives to write good reviews.


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