# Burton binding lineup



## ridethecliche (Feb 27, 2019)

Can anyone help break down the different burton bindings? And what kind of board you'd put them on? 

Mission, cartel, cartel x, malavitas, and genesis? 

I know the missions are decent mid stiff bindings. The cartel are a jack of all trades binding, but how do the cartel x compare? 

What about the malas vs the genesis? 

Thanks!


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## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

To be completely honest the performance differences in reality are pretty small. The easiest way to view it is the more expensive it is, the stiffer it is. Except the Malavita. Kinda. The Vita has a stiffer highback than Cartel, but lower, and a softer frame. But bluntly, most people probably couldn't feel a real world difference in response between Mission and Genesis. GenX if that's still a thing gets carbon, you can feel that. Then XBase is just stupid ignore their existence.


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## ridethecliche (Feb 27, 2019)

Nivek said:


> To be completely honest the performance differences in reality are pretty small. The easiest way to view it is the more expensive it is, the stiffer it is. Except the Malavita. Kinda. The Vita has a stiffer highback than Cartel, but lower, and a softer frame. But bluntly, most people probably couldn't feel a real world difference in response between Mission and Genesis. GenX if that's still a thing gets carbon, you can feel that. Then XBase is just stupid ignore their existence.


I was just watching the burton lineup video for this year on the house and they're actually saying that the genesis is softer than the cartel and vita. Has that panned out in your experience? 

I currently have some EST vitas and reflex cartels. Should be fine with those but I'm curious if I should sell the cartels and get some reflex vitas as well or get the cartel x for a board like the iguchi pro I have. 

I feel like vitas might be a better fit for a volume shifted board like my niche ember but from what you're saying its pretty much a wash anyway.


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## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

Its a wash. Pick the features or price range that speak to you and roll with it. I've landed on Cartel X cause I like the hammock highback but not the fancy spiral ratchets. Shit at demos since I use small men's which they usually never have, I just ask for large Escapades and have ridden Lexas too.


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

ridethecliche said:


> I was just watching the burton lineup video for this year on the house and they're actually saying that the genesis is softer than the cartel and vita. Has that panned out in your experience?
> 
> I currently have some EST vitas and reflex cartels. Should be fine with those but I'm curious if I should sell the cartels and get some reflex vitas as well or get the cartel x for a board like the iguchi pro I have.
> 
> I feel like vitas might be a better fit for a volume shifted board like my niche ember but from what you're saying its pretty much a wash anyway.


Mission = slightly more responsive than mid flex. I can't tell the difference in response or comfort to older Cartel or to Malavita. Can go on a Custom FV, Custom, Process, etc. So almost any freestyle/all mtn board that's not too aggressive.

Malavita = mid flex. Can go on any park, jib board or non aggressive all mtn setup. Very comfortable and ussually has cooler colours than Mission and Cartel. Super popular, but I can't see why. 

Cartel = a bit more responsive than Mission/Genesis. Slightly less comfy than Malavita but... pretty good. Can go on any board. Daily beater board, park, jumps board, pow board, all mtn board, backcountry skidoo board, charging an ripping board, gf board... super popular, and I can see why.

Genesis = about the same response as Mission but a lot more comfortable. The best ankle strap ever made, just about the most comfortable bindings. Fancy buckles, fancy highback, etc. Can go on any board, except maybe very aggressive Jones Flagship-type boards. Not very popular and not what the cool kids ride. These are my favourite  Cartels go in 2nd place. 

Genesis X = comparable to most somewhat responsive bindings from other manufacturers, but more comfortable. Can go on any board. Would be my favourite but they cost an arm. Still, can be your no1 bindings because they can go on any board and are super responsive without being crazy like Diode or retarded like XBase. 

Diode = pretty stiff, light and responsive. They don't make em anymore, so forget they exist. 

Xbase = retarded stiff. Listen to Nivek... Forget they exist and you'll be happier.

Haven't tried the new Cartel X, but likely somewhere between normal Cartel and Genesis X and without all the fancy rubber highback, buckles, etc. I would get these just because they're new...


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## fzst (Jan 3, 2019)

I really like the Cartels but I always wanted a tad stiffer highback for them. I mostly ride my frankenbinders (Diode baseplate and Cartel highback, which I have in EST and Reflex) I would love to use the Diodes highback but the don't fit my boots as well as the Cartels. In my opinion you do feel the difference in the baseplate once there is some carbon in it but its not that huge. 
The difference is mostly noticeable with the Reflex model since the EST- version of the Cartels are already quite responsive. So the Gen X would be a really cool binding but I never tried the highback so I can't say if I would like this feeling or not - my guess is no since I like a more direct feedback. Regarding the Genesis- anklestrap; This mostly depends on your boot. I didn't like it at all, it's just too big and therefore created pressurepoints with my boots. If I could raise the strap higher on the frame it would probably would work fine but sadly this setting is limited on Burton bindings.

In the current lineup I would get the Cartel X for sure. The response should be quite good since the highback is said to be stiffer than the old one. Also no double-take-ratchets is a plus in my book. I just wish it had a carbon baseplate... 

Regarding the X-base; Why does everyone think they are ridicolous? A lot of riders feel like Burton bindings aren't responsive enough for certain type of boards / riding styles (me included) so why not try something more responsive? I agree that the pricepoint is absolutely ridicolous and the carbon highback is potentially a liabilty but I still would love to try a binding that is a step up from the rest of the lineup in stiffness and response.


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## fzst (Jan 3, 2019)

@ridethecliche If you want to know which Burton binding is the most responsive you just have too look at the baseplates. This is the most important factor in terms of response. The Malavita, the Genesis and the Cartel all have the exact same baseplate so they don't really differ in terms of response, they just have different features. The highback and the anklestrap play a role too of course but that's more difficult to grasp because a lot of it has to do with how good the integrate with your boot. The 15% more short glass in the Cartel X (or the older Cartel) don't play much of a difference IMO but he carbon in the Diode / Gen X does. The mission has the older Cartel's baseplate (although only 30% short glass). i really liked that baseplate, I had a Cartel with this one too and I remember it being damper and more responsive than todays model albeit you loose some range of movement / butterability and they were also heavier (more baseplatematerial, hence more dampness and more response).


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## fzst (Jan 3, 2019)

@all Does anyone know what the carbon / nylon-ratio was on the Diode? The Gen X had 28% carbon in the baseplate whereas the X-base has 50%. Which baseplate did the Diode have?


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

fzst said:


> Regarding the X-base; Why does everyone think they are ridicolous? A lot of riders feel like Burton bindings aren't responsive enough for certain type of boards / riding styles (me included) so why not try something more responsive? I agree that the pricepoint is absolutely ridicolous and the carbon highback is potentially a liabilty but I still would love to try a binding that is a step up from the rest of the lineup in stiffness and response.


I just think it's too stiff and rigid. The Diode is nice because it does add that light and direct feel without being crazy stiff. But yeah, XBase are very responsive and direct, I guess tor people who like the TRice bindings or Now overdrive, then these are fine, but also i find the ODrive a bit too much...

Also yes I forgot to add, most of the bindings i mentioned above refer to EST. The Cartels on EST are very nice and responsive, from what I remember from reflex Cartels, est are more responsive than Reflex and better altogether with the hinge as well.


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## fzst (Jan 3, 2019)

F1EA said:


> I just think it's too stiff and rigid. The Diode is nice because it does add that light and direct feel without being crazy stiff. But yeah, very responsive and direct, I guess tor people who like the TRice bindings or Now overdrive, then these are fine, but also i find the ODrive a but too much...


Yeah I agree, the Diode has a really nice response to it while still being playful enough for freestyle elements. I only wish they would do a highback with some cushion / EVA on it. I 'm kinda hoping that the Cartel X's highback is exactly that. The Diode was the "real" med - stiff binding from Burton, I don't really consider the Cartel as stiff - It is a happy medium IMO maybe a touch more.
So now Burton is lacking a stiff binding this season, well at least in the reflex lineup. That's why I think an X-Base or something comparable would still have it's place for people who don't care about freestyle and just want womething really stiff. I still have a C02 (from around 07 I think) whitout the reflex - tech and it's quite a bit stiffer than the Diode (probably mostly due to the bigger baseplate) and the C02 wasn't even their stiffest binding back then. Burton slowly softened their stuff up over the years and that's true for boards bindings and boots. They want to make snowboarding easier and more accessible - which is a good thing but there are still some riders out there who like stiff setups. BTW: I'm well aware that stiffness doesn't necessarily correspond with response. Burton is especially good in making softer feeling bindings that still have a lot of response. I'm just saying that some still prefer a stiffer one even though they would get almost the same response out of a Cartel or a Diode.



F1EA said:


> Also yes I forgot to add, most of the bindings i mentioned above refer to EST. The Cartels on EST are very nice and responsive, from what I remember from reflex Cartels, est are more responsive than Reflex and better altogether with the hinge as well.


Yes, the ESTs are definately more responsive. The reason for that is probably that the baseplates are bigger. The heelcup is higher and wider and the baseplate aka the two sides are also longer which ultimately leads to more "baseplatematerial" overall. IMO thats giving it more repsonse and also more dampness - it could also be because of how the EST- system itself works though idk... BTW this also makes EST bindings heavier.


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## fzst (Jan 3, 2019)

I just found a specsheet of the C02's Burton C02 Snowboard Bindings 2008
Well they do not look this great now obviously 😅 but it's this exact model. I rode this bindings for a few years on my Uninc, which I found a few years back at a yard sale in pristine condition, so I rode it now and then for a few seasons (it's still rideable). To ride it, I had to use a binding which still had the old school Burton disc so I could use the weard 2x2 hole pattern disc of the Uninc.
It has a 50% carbon - 50% nylon baseplate just like the X-base. Now I want to try out the X-base even more  I never found the C02s too stiff or overbearing at all. Compared to modern bindings, they are certainly restricting foot movement though and there is not much boardfeel. With the added reflex-tech of the X-base, they should ride a lot smoother. I would probably exchange the carbon highback, I don't really trust carbon highbacks... and it goes without saying that I would only buy them if I found them on an insane discount. 😅 🙄


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## Rip154 (Sep 23, 2017)

This is my stuff (from Burton):

X-base EST (60% off) = Burton channel boards
Clutch/SuperMissions with pc highbacks and Malavita ankle straps (x3) = everything
Freestyle baseplate with Freedbacks and Genesis ankle strap = powder split
All toe straps are Supergrips.

-All baseplates with canting is a nogo for me.
-Get asym ankle straps for anything besides splits.
-The Cartel ankle straps are too stiff.
-See no real point in having a forgiving highback anymore, either on or off, it just needs to be comfy. Soft highbacks work too, theres just no benefit to it. The X-base highback is great, the Clutch is close.
-Freestyle is highbacks on for sure, but I'm experimenting with Freedbacks now and then for carving and freeride.
-Malavita > Genesis
-New Mission looks like all comfort, I'm betting it's the softest from Burton now.
-If you have the right stance, you don't need forward lean on highbacks.


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## sparkysteamboat (May 12, 2020)

Love my Cartels, riding them on my Never Summer Maverix and Snowtooper. Great binding Haven't tried the others, but don't feel any need to. The only issue I have had is the toe strap clip on my Snowtrooper sometimes ices up when riding deep pow in very cold weather, but I just knock it a few times and it is fine.


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## ridethecliche (Feb 27, 2019)

So a bit of background...

Boards:
Signal Yup and Omni and old beat disruptor.
Arbor iguchi pro camber
Niche Ember (yes the ember and not the pyre)
Old rome buckshot.

I have a set of EST mala's for the yup/omni I can swap back and forth. They both currently have a set of really old EST cartels... the one on the omni doesn't even have a hinge!

I think I'll pick up a set of the cartel x for use on the iguchi pro and to use on other stuff. I actually have a set of old missions that are kind of beat up but I could probably cannibalize the straps and highbacks off the hingeless cartels and use them on the missions. 

Kinda tempted to sell the set of new cartels I have and get a second set of the Cartel X or maybe even Reflex Malas... Thoughts? Might list them here if I decide to do it... don't really see much of a downside to it. This is basically going to be it for bindings for me for the next few years unless I end up getting step ons or something, which likely won't happen till I'm in my 40's lmao.


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

And it seems for 2021 the Cartel X is kind of as stiff as the regular 2020 Cartels were. 

Then the 2021 Cartel are kind of what the older (and softer) Cartels used to be.

So not much has changed; including that Mission and Cartels are probably the same thing...


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## ridethecliche (Feb 27, 2019)

Ended up getting a set of the reflex cartel x and malavitas.

This is in addition to:
-1 set EST malavitas
-2 sets EST cartel of various ages (pretty mishmashed bindings tbh)
-1 set missions which will inherit a set of older cartel highbacks. 

Figured it made sense to get something super responsive and stiff like the cartel x's as well as something a bit softer. Ended up selling a bunch of the last year model of union and burton bindings that I had. Should wrap stuff up nicely.


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## Jack87 (Jan 9, 2021)

F1EA said:


> Mission = slightly more responsive than mid flex. I can't tell the difference in response or comfort to older Cartel or to Malavita. Can go on a Custom FV, Custom, Process, etc. So almost any freestyle/all mtn board that's not too aggressive.
> 
> Malavita = mid flex. Can go on any park, jib board or non aggressive all mtn setup. Very comfortable and ussually has cooler colours than Mission and Cartel. Super popular, but I can't see why.
> 
> ...



Just replying to the last note. The normal Cartel for 2021 season is actually less stiff than the Cartel of the past. I think the Cartel X stiffness is closer to previous Cartel at least the construction material of the base plate. The new Cartel X does have a few comfort add ons that the new standard Cartel does not.


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## ridethecliche (Feb 27, 2019)

I'll update the thread and say that I've ridden the EST malas on my yup and I rode the reflex cartel x on my iguchi camber. I liked the cartel x so much that I contacted burton to return the reflex malas I bought and exchange them for a set of cartel x's. I like the x's a lot.


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## ridethecliche (Feb 27, 2019)

Updating the thread again.

I'm still a huge fan of the Cartel X. I think they're fantastic bindings for aggressive boards and riding and have awesome response. Looks like Angry just rated them #1 for his freeride binding top 5 so that's reassuring as well.

So I never ended up returning the malas... and just kept them.

I've ridden the EST malas on the Yup and the Reflex Malas on a fullbag supernaut and korua stealth.
I found that the supernaut rode a lot better with the cartel X but hard to have a perfect comparison because I also moved the bindings forward when I swapped to the cartel X from the malas.
I liked the stealth just fine with the malas.

At this point, I think I'm actually leaning towards selling the EST malas and using my old style cartels with the yup. On the fence about selling the Reflex malas. I keep reading reviews and seeing people really like them and wonder if I'm putting them on the wrong boards.

I just traded the supernaut for a gnu spam 1 and I'm wondering if a board like that, which is slightly softer, is a better match for the malas. Or if I should just dump them both and pick up another set of cartel x or try something else if/when things go on sale.

Actually, would the cartel x likely be too stiff for park boards? I have an old disruptor that I bought to mess around with in the park and the missions on that are dyinggg. Maybe the malas would be a better fit for the spam and softer flexing boards?


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## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

I mean I say branch out from Burton. The Malavita is my go to Burton, but purely on comfort, I haven't been on the Cartel X yet, but up until this offering I've kinda felt like Mission through Genesis you don't get THAT much of a performance difference, just comfort. I actually rode the Yup with Bent Metal Transfers and if I was buying one with my own money I'd probably put those back on it. 

If you're not interested in making some efforts to some other brands then I'd go EST Vita's on the Yup, and ReFlex on the Spam or Disruptor.

If you're curious, look into Rome Vices, BM Transfers, or Arbor Hemlocks.


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## ridethecliche (Feb 27, 2019)

Nivek said:


> I mean I say branch out from Burton. The Malavita is my go to Burton, but purely on comfort, I haven't been on the Cartel X yet, but up until this offering I've kinda felt like Mission through Genesis you don't get THAT much of a performance difference, just comfort. I actually rode the Yup with Bent Metal Transfers and if I was buying one with my own money I'd probably put those back on it.
> 
> If you're not interested in making some efforts to some other brands then I'd go EST Vita's on the Yup, and ReFlex on the Spam or Disruptor.
> 
> If you're curious, look into Rome Vices, BM Transfers, or Arbor Hemlocks.


Thanks for the recs. Arbor hemlocks look nice. I'll likely look into those if I get rid of the vitas. 

Definitely try out the X on a stiffer board. I think you're going to be pleasantly surprised by the heel cup design.


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## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

The Hammock stuff has definitely been the tech that has kept Burton relevant in bindings honestly. Otherwise they would be pretty low on my list.


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

Nivek said:


> The Hammock stuff has definitely been the tech that has kept Burton relevant in bindings honestly. Otherwise they would be pretty low on my list.


I'd say the heel hammocks, ankle straps and Hinge...
Man the ankle straps are amazing. Their toe straps kinda suck though 

Also, maybe the simplicity. Compared to a Katana, B bindings are pretty simple to just setup and go. Union and Bent metal is somewhere inbetween.


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