# Anyone have baseless bindings?



## Nito (Oct 16, 2007)

I'm not sure, but do you consider the Burton EST bindings baseless? If yes, you'll need a new Burton ICS snowboard.

Nito



vrecksler said:


> OK, I am probably in the large minority of older riders who actually loved the baseless bindings that were all the rage in the early to mid 90's. Sure, the adjustability wasn't great as you were limited to angles of -8 to +8 or so, and if you had big feet (or a narrow board) you'd be creating rooster tails on turns, but otherwise they were pretty fantastic.
> 
> Anyway, I was hoping there were others who remember these and maybe (just maybe) there was someone who still had a pair kicking around. I used to have a pair of Bent Metal baseless, as well as a pair of Burton baseless, and I'd love to throw a pair back on my board. I know it's wishful thinking but figured I'd try and harness the power of the internet on this one.
> 
> The season officially starts here in BC this weekend! Whistler is opening up this weekend, and Baker is expecting to as well. A couple buddies and I are thinking of splitting up to Baker, maybe hit Hemispheres, before the lifts open if we can get a day off work. But either way, it's nice to know that I'll be strapping on a board within the next couple of weeks.


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## PATKOUG (Mar 28, 2009)

vrecksler said:


> OK, I am probably in the large minority of older riders who actually loved the baseless bindings that were all the rage in the early to mid 90's. Sure, the adjustability wasn't great as you were limited to angles of -8 to +8 or so, and if you had big feet (or a narrow board) you'd be creating rooster tails on turns, but otherwise they were pretty fantastic.
> 
> Anyway, I was hoping there were others who remember these and maybe (just maybe) there was someone who still had a pair kicking around. I used to have a pair of Bent Metal baseless, as well as a pair of Burton baseless, and I'd love to throw a pair back on my board. I know it's wishful thinking but figured I'd try and harness the power of the internet on this one.
> 
> The season officially starts here in BC this weekend! Whistler is opening up this weekend, and Baker is expecting to as well. A couple buddies and I are thinking of splitting up to Baker, maybe hit Hemispheres, before the lifts open if we can get a day off work. But either way, it's nice to know that I'll be strapping on a board within the next couple of weeks.


Have you NOT heard of Burton's EST and ICS/Channel Technologies?...

Basically, Burton EST (Extra Sensory Technology) Bindings are the resurrection of those old baseless bindings from the '90s, and Burton's ICS (Infinite Channel System), a.k.a. The Channel, is its counterpart.

Burton made a pretty smart move developing baseless bindings into their EST Technology while simultaneously developing their ICS Technology--the most well-developed and usable sliding snowboard binding mounting system ever. And the SMARTEST thing Burton did with these two separate technologies--was to interconnect them.

EST Bindings are ONLY compatible with ICS Boards.

But ICS Boards can (also) be used with traditional/normal/disk-type Burton Bindings through the use of (2-hole) ICS-adapter disks.

Burton markets ICS as the best snowboard binding mounting system ever due to its practically infinite stance width/location possibilities. Burton also markets their EST bindings as the only bindings that can fully exploit all of the advantages of EST due to their supposed ease of adjustibility, improved board feel, and what not.

I've been using traditional/normal/disk-type Burton Bindings for years and currently own 2008 CO2s, 2009 C60s, and 2010 P1.1, but I've never used any of their EST bindings. I also currently own three different Burton ICS Boards and I like ICS a-lot, but I've never wanted to buy EST Bindings that could only be used on ICS Boards when traditional/normal/disk-type Burton Bindings (like the ones I/we've been using for years and I already own) work on/with any board.

I know that EST Baseplate-Cushions are removable and replaceable and can even be upgraded with canted and techier versions as well. I also remember hearing that ESTs could also be used without any Baseplate-Cushions in-place--as truly baseless bindings--but I don't know...

I think that Burton has just released redesigned versions of EST and ICS for this current 2010/2011 season, but again, I'm not sure...


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## linvillegorge (Jul 6, 2009)

Holy shit, did I just read a Burton PR statement?


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## PATKOUG (Mar 28, 2009)

linvillegorge said:


> Holy shit, did I just read a Burton PR statement?


It wasn't meant to be...

Just me trying to summarize EST and ICS...

Thought I did a pretty good job... No?...


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## vrecksler (Apr 18, 2010)

PATKOUG said:


> Have you NOT heard of Burton's EST and ICS/Channel Technologies?...
> 
> Basically, Burton EST (Extra Sensory Technology) Bindings are the resurrection of those old baseless bindings from the '90s, and Burton's ICS (Infinite Channel System), a.k.a. The Channel, is its counterpart.
> 
> ...



I have, but I'm not really a fan as it really isn't the same thing in terms of feel. 

I'm not saying an EST setup is or isn't good as I haven't ridden one and most of my feelings on this 'innovation' originate from when REV pioneered the channel almost two decades ago. I'm more impressed with the Re:Flex binding thing from Burton than their EST lineup since I don't ride a Burton board and a hinged flex 4x4 disk would be interesting to demo. 

I have tried using an EST binding as a pseudo-baseless binding but it didn't work mounting wise; the two mouting points on an EST binding are design to go in the middle of the board, so when you have to try and make it work on a 4x4 insert pattern the stance options are almost nil.


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## PATKOUG (Mar 28, 2009)

vrecksler said:


> I have, but I'm not really a fan as it really isn't the same thing in terms of feel.
> 
> I'm not saying an EST setup is or isn't good as I haven't ridden one and most of my feelings on this 'innovation' originate from when REV pioneered the channel almost two decades ago. I'm more impressed with the Re:Flex binding thing from Burton than their EST lineup since I don't ride a Burton board and a hinged flex 4x4 disk would be interesting to demo.
> 
> I have tried using an EST binding as a pseudo-baseless binding but it didn't work mounting wise; the two mouting points on an EST binding are design to go in the middle of the board, so when you have to try and make it work on a 4x4 insert pattern the stance options are almost nil.


I think nowadays, an EST Binding on an ICS Board with its baseplates/beds removed is probably gonna be about as close to a baseless binding as can be found since your boots would be resting directly on top of the board...

I saw that Relfex Tech on the internet and it looks like it might be pretty cool, but who knows?... The Reflex Bindings are designed and constructed to flex with the board longitudinally, right?... And the disc is also meant to be oriented longitudinally, right?... Demo Reflex and report your findings.

That's pretty funny that you actually tried using an EST Binding on a 4-hole board... I'll give you an "A" for effort even though it didn't work...

Maybe you should try an EST Binding on an ICS Board with the baseplates/beds removed before you dismiss it?... Just a thought...


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## baconzoo (Nov 12, 2010)

baseless bindings killed your feet, they were painful at speed. Try the Good Vibes binding: FORUM SNOWBOARDS | We Live Forum


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## RobBBQ (Oct 5, 2010)

Hey man, I kinda agree. I'm back at it now myself after being away for several years (learned and rode in Alaska in 1990-1996, then away for college, back at it the past coupla years in the alps). I really liked the baseless bindings- they never hurt my feet and when I got back riding a coupla years ago not only did I wonder why baseless bindings weren't available anymore, but why bindings hadn't progressed at all. Anyhow, being an old man now I'm checking out the "convenience bindings"- got some K2 CTXs on the new Lib Banana Magic (don't even talk to me about these new backwards-camber decks...I like them...). But anyhow, I *think* I still have some old Ride horseshoes somewhere, email me.

Rob


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## freshy (Nov 18, 2009)

I remember baseless bindings, I also remember it was popular to take off your highbacks...All I have to say is there is a reason people don't do that stuff anymore. 
It was more of a freestyle thing to ride baseless, if you only ride pipe/park supposedly it gave you a lower center of gravity. I dunno, go for it I guess. If you like it more power to you. I am willing to bet you will go back to based bindings pretty quick.


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## ev13wt (Nov 22, 2010)

Burtons system isn't baseless. Its got a pad between the board and the boot. Baseless hurt my feet after a day or 2 and I had to use much more energy to get on the edges for carves. Bases give you more leverage, its simple physics. 

They should make a binding that lets the board flex under them like a baseless. The boardfeel was amazing on that system. It really let the board flex. But as I said, it was fatiguing.


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## Leo (Nov 24, 2009)

ev13wt said:


> Burtons system isn't baseless. Its got a pad between the board and the boot. Baseless hurt my feet after a day or 2 and I had to use much more energy to get on the edges for carves. Bases give you more leverage, its simple physics.
> 
> They should make a binding that lets the board flex under them like a baseless. The boardfeel was amazing on that system. It really let the board flex. But as I said, it was fatiguing.


Not entirely true. Burton EST bindings can be baseless if you choose to remove the base padding. A lot of people don't realize that you can simply remove the base padding and ride directly on the board.

Did you try this method when you demoed an EST/ICS setup Vreck? I don't see how you didn't like it if you did remove the base padding seeing as how your boots are directly on the naked board. Maybe you can just drill your boots into the board then?


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## ev13wt (Nov 22, 2010)

Leo said:


> Not entirely true. Burton EST bindings can be baseless if you choose to remove the base padding. A lot of people don't realize that you can simply remove the base padding and ride directly on the board.


Well you do have a point there.


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## david_z (Dec 14, 2009)

vrecksler said:


> Anyway, I was hoping there were others who remember these and maybe (just maybe) there was someone who still had a pair kicking around. I used to have a pair of Bent Metal baseless, as well as a pair of Burton baseless, and I'd love to throw a pair back on my board. I know it's wishful thinking but figured I'd try and harness the power of the internet on this one.


Like the ones on the board in this pic?

imgur: the simple image sharer


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## vrecksler (Apr 18, 2010)

lol, I agree 100% regarding the low backs or no backs...I admit I dabbled in this too but just briefly to experiment as I've always liked a nice stiff upper boot and a good highback. I don't agree with the whole knee thing though as I never had sore feet, or knees and I rode baseless after having ACL reconstruction on one knee, patellar tendon on the other knee, and back surgery (motorcycle accident)...at least I don't recall anything significant. It's tough to accurately recall pain levels going back 15 years. 

David, I haven't seen those before. The ones I had all had heel cups, and were adaptable to a regular 4x4 insert pattern. But if it works, it works.


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## SimonB (Oct 13, 2010)

Something like this?










Had something similar on my Daniel Franck K2, back in '95 or something... I think they were made by Preston, but not sure, Sims also had their version in plactic...

Simon B.


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