# Forward Stance



## deagol (Mar 26, 2014)

I ride about 30 front 23 back and that's what I am used to so it works for me. I haven't changed my stance in years- been riding just a few years longer than what you listed. I started back then with back foot flat across and have been dialing it forward ever since. I don't ride fakie, except when just screwing around and on very flat runs, don't do rails, but still occasionally hit a jump in the park (but I am getting old for that). Maybe it's just what you get used to? I don't think I would like riding negative stance at all.


----------



## KIRKRIDER (Mar 18, 2008)

Welcome in the club! Saturday I was experimenting with 35 - 21 ! Felt way weird for the first few runs... but after.. man you can lay some turns! I could have used a shorter stance ( I was at 22 ) but other than that felt awesome on hardpack.


----------



## poutanen (Dec 22, 2011)

KIRKRIDER said:


> Welcome in the club! Saturday I was experimenting with 35 - 21 ! Felt way weird for the first few runs... but after.. man you can lay some turns! I could have used a shorter stance ( I was at 22 ) but other than that felt awesome on hardpack.


I think next time I experiment I'll do it first thing, give me a chance to get used to it on fresh groomers before the variable terrain starts rearing it's ugly head. It felt like it's biggest downside was versatility in bumps...


----------



## twowheeled (Jan 1, 2014)

funny you say that, I was goofing around on the last run of the day yesterday at marmot and flipped my bindings over to +30, +18. It felt really weird, this was my first try at laying down some carves. But when I got to mid mountain and some soft snow I was almost laying down nipple scratchers, my friends said I was cutting deep trench. Couldn't handle bumps or moguls at all but it's fun to lay out some carves on groomers.


----------



## KIRKRIDER (Mar 18, 2008)

poutanen said:


> I think next time I experiment I'll do it first thing, give me a chance to get used to it on fresh groomers before the variable terrain starts rearing it's ugly head. It felt like it's biggest downside was versatility in bumps...



Take your time! But insist. High angles have completely bumped up groomer days carving It's hella fun! But yes, bumps and moguls are still no good. I do short quick turns over them


----------



## CassMT (Mar 14, 2013)

yeh +/+ all the way, you'll get used to the absorbtion thing


----------



## behi (Feb 27, 2013)

poutanen said:


> The biggest thing I took away from it was not being able to bend my legs nearly as much to absorb the variable terrain


You definitely give up a lot of movement range - just try it at home without board. 

IMO, most riders with a forward stance look very awkward during edge transitions, because they tend to bend at the hips when trying to unweight - presumably, because they don't have sufficient movement range.


----------



## KIRKRIDER (Mar 18, 2008)

behi said:


> You definitely give up a lot of movement range - just try it at home without board.
> 
> IMO, most riders with a forward stance look very awkward during edge transitions, because they tend to bend at the hips when trying to unweight - presumably, because they don't have sufficient movement range.


Hummm I don't agree...maybe with a really narrow stance? Other than that you can bend your knees more than enough. Of course if you're carving over moguls it's not going to work either forward or duck... to unweight you extend at the end of a turn and load the front foot for the next.. leaning forward instead of sideways


----------



## deagol (Mar 26, 2014)

I always thought duck stance looked very awkward, sliding to initiate turns rather than carving to do so, also lots of going down runs facing forward like a skier, but always on heelside edge, acting like a snowplow scraping the snow off the runs


----------



## twowheeled (Jan 1, 2014)

deagol said:


> I always thought duck stance looked very awkward, sliding to initiate turns rather than carving to do so, also lots of going down runs facing forward like a skier, but always on heelside edge, acting like a snowplow scraping the snow off the runs


that's just bad technique. I can carve in duck and I don't face forward.


----------



## deagol (Mar 26, 2014)

I've seen video of some people carving well with Duck, but not in person.


----------



## skip11 (Jan 28, 2010)

You obviously haven't been watching a lot of snowboard vids. That's just one vid on top of my head. I can link you too many many more but too lazy to do it.


----------



## skip11 (Jan 28, 2010)

Sorry, didn't read you mean in person. Ya on the hill not a lot of people carve well. But I've seen more and more park people carving really well (like on the black park on blackcomb for example).


----------



## poutanen (Dec 22, 2011)

behi said:


> You definitely give up a lot of movement range - just try it at home without board.


Yeah exactly. When I stand with my feet shoulder width apart, toes out about 10 deg, I can do full squats without any weird knee pain. Try the same thing in any sort of forward stance and the range of motion is severely limited.



KIRKRIDER said:


> Hummm I don't agree...maybe with a really narrow stance? Other than that you can bend your knees more than enough. Of course if you're carving over moguls it's not going to work either forward or duck... to unweight you extend at the end of a turn and load the front foot for the next.. leaning forward instead of sideways


Actually I've been working this year on carving through moguls, not the easiest thing to do in the world, but it is possible! And you need TONS of range of motion to do it.



deagol said:


> I always thought duck stance looked very awkward, sliding to initiate turns rather than carving to do so, also lots of going down runs facing forward like a skier, but always on heelside edge, acting like a snowplow scraping the snow off the runs


As somebody else mentioned, this is just snowboarders in general. There are millions of beginner and intermediate boarders out there, a few advanced, and a handful of expert boarders. Very few can actually carve, no matter what their stance is!

Here's another thought with forward stance. The alpine guys ride extreme forward angles in the range of +60 for the front and +45 for the back. They certainly carve well, but seem to run home when the hardpack starts getting choppy. I still feel like whatever benefit it gives for carving, it takes away from the chop... :dunno:


----------



## KIRKRIDER (Mar 18, 2008)

Agree with you, riding or carving groomers is possible.. you just stay in the valleys between them, and agree again. Looking for the lift I see a lot of people trying to carve ending doing a long rudder skid instead.

I saw a guy ride powder with a PRIOR ATV board, 55-45 angles. 
Chop is ok, but you can't hold an edge as well as in hard pack, maybe that's why they leave. Or like I do, after a whole day in good powder or compact, when it gets too choppy I call it a day?


----------



## deagol (Mar 26, 2014)

That could be true. I used to have flatter angles many years ago, especially on the back foot. I rode more moguls back then. It may be a chicken or the egg question: don't like moguls due to forward stance angle? or don't like moguls anymore, so no reason to stick with flatter angles? As an aide, moguls don't seem to be as big or uniform as they used to be, a possible result of many more snowboarders with different turn patterns?


----------



## KIRKRIDER (Mar 18, 2008)

deagol said:


> That could be true. I used to have flatter angles many years ago, especially on the back foot. I rode more moguls back then. It may be a chicken or the egg question: don't like moguls due to forward stance angle? or don't like moguls anymore, so no reason to stick with flatter angles? As an aide, moguls don't seem to be as big or uniform as they used to be, a possible result of many more snowboarders with different turn patterns?


You don't like moguls because powder is better


----------



## deagol (Mar 26, 2014)

KIRKRIDER said:


> You don't like moguls because powder is better


truer words have never been spoken


----------



## ShredLife (Feb 6, 2010)

this thread lacks steeze. (terje vid exception)


----------



## poutanen (Dec 22, 2011)

ShredLife said:


> this thread lacks steeze. (terje vid exception)


What would Terje do?!?

The Olympic Issue: Terje Haakonsen Interview | Snowboard Magazine

FWIW, he rides forward stance...


----------



## KIRKRIDER (Mar 18, 2008)

the dude... flies


----------



## skip11 (Jan 28, 2010)

But he's forward stance is pretty mellow though. I remember a few years back on Burton's website it's like +21 +3 or +21 +6, something like that. Gigi and Blauvelt also ride forward stance. Jake is about the same as Terje, Gigi is +18 +3


----------



## booron (Mar 22, 2014)

poutanen said:


> They certainly carve well, but seem to run home when the hardpack starts getting choppy. I still feel like whatever benefit it gives for carving, it takes away from the chop... :dunno:


I anecdotally disagree. I pay attention to these guys because I personally think they are the most entertaining riders to watch on the hill (the good ones at least). There are usually only a tiny handful of them, and the ones that I see there at the start, I usually still see going when I'm packing it up...

I gotta imagine that a board that damp and stiff cuts through the chop like nothing...


----------



## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

skip11 said:


> You obviously haven't been watching a lot of snowboard vids. That's just one vid on top of my head. I can link you too many many more but too lazy to do it.


Nice, never saw this vid...terje at LBS...iirc one year he won it riding switch.


----------



## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

poutanen said:


> The biggest thing I took away from it was not being able to bend my legs nearly as much to absorb the variable terrain.





poutanen said:


> When I stand with my feet shoulder width apart, toes out about 10 deg, I can do full squats without any weird knee pain. Try the same thing in any sort of forward stance and the range of motion is *severely limited.*
> ...
> 
> I still feel like whatever benefit it gives for carving, it takes away from the chop... :dunno:


I've yet never felt a problem to bend my knees and cope with absorbing chop with my forward stances. 

Comparing the difference at home, I only recognize a difference in the motion range of bending the knees when having the thigh lower than parallel to the ground, which may be useful if one has to absorb impacts from high jumps (which I don't) but for the bend range needed to absorb bumps, I feel no difference. Belly issue? :dunno: 

On the other hand, I find it harder with duck angles and bent knees to shift the weight to the front foot than with forward stance.


----------



## skip11 (Jan 28, 2010)

@wrath: No, he pretty sure he only qualified switch not won the whole thing. I wish there is more Terje clip in that vid, mostly Ben. Still awesome nevertheless.


----------



## poutanen (Dec 22, 2011)

I'm going to post this elsewhere, but this video is sort of relevant to this threads :laugh:

Guy rides a Virus Avalanche FLP AFT w/ a forward stance while heli-boarding in AK... Get past the first shakey minute and then it's just a great unadulterated video.


----------



## KIRKRIDER (Mar 18, 2008)

poutanen said:


> I'm going to post this elsewhere, but this video is sort of relevant to this threads :laugh:
> 
> Guy rides a Virus Avalanche FLP AFT w/ a forward stance while heli-boarding in AK... Get past the first shakey minute and then it's just a great unadulterated video.


Hmmmmm delicious.

What board is that? K2 UltraDream?


----------



## poutanen (Dec 22, 2011)

KIRKRIDER said:


> Hmmmmm delicious.
> 
> What board is that? K2 UltraDream?


Yeah that makes me want to heli-board now! Guy wearing the POV is riding a Virus Avalanche, looked like there was a Never Summer and a blunt nose board in there too (is that the one you think is an UltraDream?)...


----------



## poutanen (Dec 22, 2011)

neni said:


> Comparing the difference at home, I only recognize a difference in the motion range of bending the knees when having the thigh lower than parallel to the ground, which may be useful if one has to absorb impacts from high jumps (which I don't) but for the bend range needed to absorb bumps, I feel no difference. Belly issue? :dunno:


Maybe it's something I just need to play with more? Narrow the stance width and play with the angles a bit?

I think I'm going to play with the Burton T7 next time we get a good groomer day. With EST/ICS it's far easier to screw around with angles and widths without actually having to remove and reset the bindings all the time... :dizzy:


----------



## KIRKRIDER (Mar 18, 2008)

poutanen said:


> (is that the one you think is an UltraDream?)...


yep! I was checking here instead of working...

All Mountain Boards Men Snowboard ROSSIGNOL : ski, snowboard, ski boots, helmet, goggle, outerwear

And it's 81deg today in the SF bay area.


----------



## deagol (Mar 26, 2014)

OMG, I could cry after watching that video


----------



## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

Awww, heck, vid is "blocked due to music copyright in your country blabla"


----------



## deagol (Mar 26, 2014)

neni said:


> Awww, heck, vid is "blocked due to music copyright in your country blabla"


Bummer, I actually watched it with the sound turned off.


Edit: they had perfect weather


----------



## Sprockett (Jan 9, 2012)

I have ridden a mellow forward stance since I started. F+18 R+3

I a couple weekends ago I did some kind of injury to my back foot ankle while boarding...pushed my toes up too far towards my shin...and now I have a limited range of movement in that direction before I get some sharp pains. Ever heard of snowboarder's ankle? I think I got close to that and bruised or strained something.

Anyways my meager point is, I moved my back binding to about a -3 angle and while I don't feel it affected my riding in any way, it actually did wonders to relieve stress on my ankle while on my toe edge.


----------



## poutanen (Dec 22, 2011)

twitter said:


> Your profile picture perfectly illustrates your statement: "how does terje do it?"


Like an animal?!? 

I should mention that I've slalom water skied a fair bit, which is a total forward stance, but there's really no saving it if the bumps get you off balance on the ski!


----------



## SnowDogWax (Nov 8, 2013)

Today at Jay peak had my Rossi 167 XV set up at +37 +27 only did 4 runs on groomers, will continue for the next 9 days. Last week on a 164 Krypto had a +27 +9. Krypto was no problem, like I never skipped a beat. Today was just a little unstable, especially on the heel side. Will be switching to a stiffer boot tomorrow which should help. Looking to develop a stance for GS racing in the next day or so, then practice, practice.


----------



## twowheeled (Jan 1, 2014)

Sprockett said:


> I have ridden a mellow forward stance since I started. F+18 R+3
> 
> I a couple weekends ago I did some kind of injury to my back foot ankle while boarding...pushed my toes up too far towards my shin...and now I have a limited range of movement in that direction before I get some sharp pains. Ever heard of snowboarder's ankle? I think I got close to that and bruised or strained something.
> 
> Anyways my meager point is, I moved my back binding to about a -3 angle and while I don't feel it affected my riding in any way, it actually did wonders to relieve stress on my ankle while on my toe edge.


yea, it's called a sprain. Ice that thing and stay off it for awhile.



SnowDogWax said:


> Today at Jay peak had my Rossi 167 XV set up at +37 +27 only did 4 runs on groomers, will continue for the next 9 days. Last week on a 164 Krypto had a +27 +9. Krypto was no problem, like I never skipped a beat. Today was just a little unstable, especially on the heel side. Will be switching to a stiffer boot tomorrow which should help. Looking to develop a stance for GS racing in the next day or so, then practice, practice.


Sounds like fun on the krypto, I will have to try it although with the edges on that thing I know I will be taking chunks out of the groomers. Are you keeping the setback stance? Width?


----------



## SnowDogWax (Nov 8, 2013)

My normal stance is +15 -9 with a 24.5 inch width. On the XV I started with keeping the setback stance that was on the board. I'll give that stance one more day. Seeing that this is only the third day ever for a positive stance set-up. I plan on trying +45 - 35 tomorrow which Carver's Almanac gives as the norm for GS racing.


----------



## Outlander (Nov 28, 2011)

deagol said:


> I always thought duck stance looked very awkward, sliding to initiate turns rather than carving to do so, also lots of going down runs facing forward like a skier, but always on heelside edge, acting like a snowplow scraping the snow off the runs


That has nothing to do with the stance. It has to do with rider skill level...

Good riders rocking duck stances do NOT face forward going down the hill and certainly do NOT sideslip and scrape off the snow. Trust me, you can lay deep carved trenches with a duck stance too....


----------

