# Serious Foot Pain



## Wiredsport

JohnnyW said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> I started snowboarding this year and am loving it. I have the K2 Maysis boots and a K2 bottle rocket and Burton custom bindings (got it all on a crazy sale at my local shop). The gear was strongly recommended by my local ski shop. But whenever I go out and ride, after a run or two my feet are killing me to the point where I have to stop and take the boots off. The pain occurs on the outside edge of my feet. The pain typically first starts right when I strap in and begin to ride. I went out yesterday and the same thing occurered but when walking back to my car (wearing the boots) the pain was horrible. No clue whats going on, if its my stance or the boots?
> 
> BTW I have wider and flat ish feet.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Johnny


Hi Johnny,

Let's rule out the boots. Please let us know th eboot size that you are wearing. Please post up your barefoot length and width measurements.

STOKED!


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## wrathfuldeity

^this....and do what ever wired says

and take a read of this
http://www.snowboardingforum.com/boots/51066-boots-faq-etc.html

keep in mind that your feet (and ankles/calves/legs) also need to become conditioned (muscular/physical) to riding. This year my son hasn't been riding for 3-4 years, coming back from Florida where he has been in tennis shoes and flipflops and his feet have spread....the first day his feet were KILLIN him, second day a tad bit better


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## kriegs13

So not to say that this has nothing to do with proper boot fitting (because I'm sure it does), but here was my experience with my Maysis:

Previous boots were a half size too big and after the first run this season (third on the life of the boots so they finally started to pack out), I had the jammed toe situation from not being locked into my heel and it made it almost impossible to ride.
Finally went to an LBS and got a proper fitting (the first time I've done so despite these being my 4th pair of boots). Settled on the Maysis in the correct size after trying four or five other comparable boots because they instantly felt like a dream and I like their version of doable boa as I don't feel experienced enough to need to dial in two different zones. First day out with them, I had some pretty notable pain in the pinky and "ring" (is that what it's called?) toe on my right foot but still much better. I loosened up the outer boa by just a click or two while keeping the Conda locked in almost entirely. This helped a lot. The next time out I went another couple of notches looser and it was perfect. Now that they've got 5 days and have packed out a bit, I tighten them up to where they probably should be and I have no pain whatsoever.

TL,DR I know, but just saying that if they do turn out to be the right fit for you, you may just need to give them a couple of days and/or get them heat-molded to get them where you need them.


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## JohnnyW

So my foot length is 11.5 inches and width is 4 inches at the widest point.


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## freshy

This sounds almost exactly what I experienced when I got some 32 307's. Fit great in the store and walking around at home but the action of snowboarding made then hurt like hell. I could literally not handle more than 3 runs max without taking them off and letting my feet rest. I tried lacing then differently and tried to modify the liner but nothing helped except getting new boots. 

Luckily a had good luck with Northwaves in the past and even to this day I swear they are the only ones that do not hurt. I also tried some DC Trice that also hurt. 

Sucks that you won't really know untill you ride the boots and can't return them but once you find a brand and model that won't kill your feet keep buying those and don't ever stray.


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## Wiredsport

JohnnyW said:


> So my foot length is 11.5 inches and width is 4 inches at the widest point.


Got it. What size Maysis boots are you in?


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## JohnnyW

size 11 i believe. they feel like they fit perfectly. my feet arent jammed up against the end. Just re checked my foot size with a proper measuring device and i have size 11 feet.


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## BurtonAvenger

It's a simple issue of not having the muscle memory in the foot for the arch to understand what's going on. A lack of arch support. And a liner that isn't broken in right. 

Get an aftermarket/custom insole, get the liner heat molded, and then go from there.


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## Funks

My son, my niece, and I have the foot pain problem when snowboarding (it's more in the arch). Yep, all three of us have flat, wide feet. Pain was basically unbearable at times and it usually means a short day. 

Here's what we did

1) Got properly sized boots (we run Burton Ruler Wide's) - there's another thread on here to measure proper foot size
2) Replaced the in-soles that came with the boots with some PowerStep Wide Fit Orthothic Insoles (around 35$)
3) Got our boots heat fitted at the local Any Mountain Store.

Even with the above, foot pain galore at the slopes (we even took 600 mg of Ibuprofen before riding). What finally fixed it for us and made snowboarding bearable was to not crank down (tighten) the front zone of the boot (the Burton Ruler Wide's have the SpeedZone Lacing system - the front area (aka top of the foot), and the ankle / shin area). 

We can tighten the shin area of the zone without any issues, but if we crank down and tighten the front area, might as well drive home and forget the trip (just leave it snug, but no pressure from the top). I'm not sure why cranking down the front area kills our feet, maybe it's driving down the arch even more.

May, or may not help in your case though.


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## Wiredsport

JohnnyW said:


> size 11 i believe. they feel like they fit perfectly. my feet arent jammed up against the end. Just re checked my foot size with a proper measuring device and i have size 11 feet.


Hi Johnny,

Something is not correct here with your measurements.

Please measure your feet using this method (please post photos of your measurements):

Kick your heel (barefoot please, no socks) back against a wall. Mark the floor exactly at the tip of your toe (the one that sticks out furthest - which toe this is will vary by rider). Measure from the mark on the floor to the wall. That is your foot length and is the only measurement that you will want to use. Measure in centimeters if possible, but if not, take inches and multiply by 2.54 (example: an 11.25 inch foot x 2.54 = 28.57 centimeters).


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## wrathfuldeity

Funks said:


> My son, my niece, and I have the foot pain problem when snowboarding (it's more in the arch). Yep, all three of us have flat, wide feet. Pain was basically unbearable at times and it usually means a short day.
> 
> Here's what we did
> 
> 1) Got properly sized boots (we run Burton Ruler Wide's) - there's another thread on here to measure proper foot size
> 2) Replaced the in-soles that came with the boots with some PowerStep Wide Fit Orthothic Insoles (around 35$)
> 3) Got our boots heat fitted at the local Any Mountain Store.
> 
> Even with the above, foot pain galore at the slopes (we even took 600 mg of Ibuprofen before riding). What finally fixed it for us and made snowboarding bearable was to not crank down (tighten) the front zone of the boot (the Burton Ruler Wide's have the SpeedZone Lacing system - the front area (aka top of the foot), and the ankle / shin area).
> 
> We can tighten the shin area of the zone without any issues, but if we crank down and tighten the front area, might as well drive home and forget the trip (just leave it snug, but no pressure from the top). I'm not sure what cranking down the front area kills our feet, maybe it's driving down the arch even more.
> 
> May, or may not help in your case though.


^ this, OP many don't quite understand that there are several parts to boots and it helps/is important to understand the different functions of these parts to make/mod a boot that will work for you.

Last week posted this in the boot faq...
ime, as long as your foot is not getting severely pinched width wise or toes...length wise, you are good...so as you are able to wiggle the tootsies. But the arch/instep thing is more of the issue; in part due to support of the arch (thus the aftermarket insoles that fit your arch) and the insoles help to keep your foot planted inside your boot/liner. I have 32 focus boas and can/do leave the tension fairly loose and at times even unlatched in the foot/lower boa. The lower boa is just to hold your foot in place with enough pressure to keep your foot planted on the insole...it does NOT take that much pressure...And in fact if you are crank it too much you will definitely get pain, numb feet and feel like your foot is getting crushed...because it is.

However, as for the inner lace that holds the ankle and heel in the heel pocket...that is locked down...about as tight as I can pull it. This inner lace is what holds the foot back and locks down the ankle...so that there is very little/no heel lift. You will see in some of my responses...the reference to using "butterfly" wraps...the reason, is the butterfly actually creates a deeper heel pocket and has the potential to mould around the back of the ankle above the heel (skinny part)...and thus help to lock down the heel...due to the creation of the deeper heel pocket.

As for the cuff, i.e., the upper boa...that is snugged down pretty firmly...because the cuff area of the boot/leg is what gives you the leverage to engage your edges. If you have too much slop in the cuff you can't get the power, leverage or support of driving your knees and thus pressuring the edges of the board. This is also where adding some foam to the outside of the liner on the tongue...this will help to push the heel back into the heel pocket and give you a bit of extra padding on the shin...so that you can really cinch the inner laces.


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## djsaad1

Do you have flat feet? I have had issues with the insoles on k2 boots because of my flat feet. If I put the right superfeet in them or remind insoles they are usually fine.


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## neliconcept

I had the same problem with my K2 Maysis as well. I'm a size 10.5 shoe and i have a size 9 boot. My issue wasn't much the toe jamming but the sides of my feet like you. I added some inserts with way more arch support than the stock inserts and it made a WORLD of difference! I'd suggest that before you consider getting new boots (if you are in the correct boot size that is..)


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## Sons of Thunder

Funks said:


> My son, my niece, and I have the foot pain problem when snowboarding (it's more in the arch). Yep, all three of us have flat, wide feet. Pain was basically unbearable at times and it usually means a short day.
> 
> Here's what we did
> 
> 1) Got properly sized boots (we run Burton Ruler Wide's) - there's another thread on here to measure proper foot size
> 2) Replaced the in-soles that came with the boots with some PowerStep Wide Fit Orthothic Insoles (around 35$)
> 3) Got our boots heat fitted at the local Any Mountain Store.
> 
> *Even with the above, foot pain galore at the slopes (we even took 600 mg of Ibuprofen before riding). What finally fixed it for us and made snowboarding bearable was to not crank down (tighten) the front zone of the boot (the Burton Ruler Wide's have the SpeedZone Lacing system - the front area (aka top of the foot), and the ankle / shin area).
> 
> We can tighten the shin area of the zone without any issues, but if we crank down and tighten the front area, might as well drive home and forget the trip (just leave it snug, but no pressure from the top). I'm not sure what cranking down the front area kills our feet, maybe it's driving down the arch even more.*
> 
> May, or may not help in your case though.


Yep, this is exactly what did it for me and is the easiest/cheapest option to try out. I'm pretty anal about lacing/strapping in so I make everything super tight. Didn't realize that loosening up the bottom part just a tad would make a world of difference.


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## Kaladryn

This is almost certainly foot abductor muscle cramping/swelling pain (abductor minimi digiti on outside of foot and abductor hallusic on inside). It is VERY common in snowboarding. Once your feet get "in shape" for snowboarding, it will largely go away. I still get after a run or two and then it goes away, you usually feel it on the lift. Basically, the muscle swells with blood and either cramps or is too tight in your boot (or just too tight in the muscle facia, think pumped forearm). Proper boot fit will reduce it, but not fix it completely. It's just muscles in the feet that get overworked in snowboarding compared to general activities. I train both flexion and extension year round, weekly, and it helps but still I get it a little at the start of the season, first day or two especially. I feel a little bit of discomfort when your feet first swell up is a side effect of a perfect boot fit. Oh and compression socks help a little, although they make it worse if it gets bad.


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## JohnnyW

Hey,

Sorry for the late response, I went back to my local shop and had custom liners put in and heat molded. I wore the boots around for a couple hours and the feel great. Im going snowboarding on friday and hopefully there is no pain. If there is ill fire you a message.

Johnny


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## Alpine Duke

I don't know about you.....but for what i am guessing is 80% of the boot pain out there....it is because people didn't read Wiredsport's posts and have boots too big....with the boots and bindings getting cranked to try and make up for it. Maybe even more than 80%


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## f00bar

I think Kaladryn hits a valid point for a lot of new riders. Not being relaxed and using your feet in ways they aren't used to causes a lot of beginner pain. I know this has been the case for me in early season.


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## Wiredsport

It was these two lines that concerned me:

_Just re checked my foot size with a proper measuring device and i have size 11 feet.
BTW I have wider and flat ish feet. _

We would really need to see your barefoot measurements to help long term you an any meaningful way.

STOKED!


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## Deacon

The *only* proper measuring device to find your snowboard boot size:










I don't see a "size 11" on there anywhere.


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## jshreds

Wiredsport said:


> Hi Johnny,
> 
> Let's rule out the boots. Please let us know th eboot size that you are wearing. Please post up your barefoot length and width measurements.
> 
> STOKED!


Hey Wired, looking for some advice too as I have bad foot/arch pain in my feet. Getting a new pair of boots this season and want them to be dialed in. I generally think stiffer is better as I like to charge the mountain aggressively. But is stiffer actually better for foot pain? 

My barefoot length is 10 3/8" or 26.3525 cm and 4" wide or 10.16 cm.

Suggestions?

Thanks in advance!


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## Wiredsport

Jshreds,

In itself, stiffness should not cause this issue. What are your current boots (model/size)?

STOKED!


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## jshreds

Wiredsport said:


> Jshreds,
> 
> In itself, stiffness should not cause this issue. What are your current boots (model/size)?
> 
> STOKED!





Wiredsport said:


> Jshreds,
> 
> In itself, stiffness should not cause this issue. What are your current boots (model/size)?
> 
> STOKED!


That's good to hear because I prefer stiffer gear for responsiveness. I have K2 Maysis size 11 but they're pretty old now. GF bought me some custom food beds last year and they helped but still feeling some pain. I'm an avid hiker and backpacker in the offseason and don't have any foot pain after hiking for days on end. But I have to stop often when snowboarding to let my feet rest in the last 2 or 3 snowboard seasons. Thoughts?


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## Wiredsport

Hi Jshreds,

26.35 cm is Mondopoint 265 or size 8.5 US in snowboard boots. The total measurement range for 265 is 261 to 265 so, at 26.35 you are mid range. 10.16 cm wide is an E width. This does require a very specific boot as only one brand produces their wide boots for E width. I would strongly suggest either the Salomon Dialogue Wide of Salomon Synapse Wide in size 8.5. 

Once we get you into your Mondopoint size, stiff boots may no longer be mandatory for you.

If you would like to post up images of your barefoot measurements being taken I will be happy to confirm all of this.

STOKED!


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## jshreds

Wiredsport said:


> Hi Jshreds,
> 
> 26.35 cm is Mondopoint 265 or size 8.5 US in snowboard boots. The total measurement range for 265 is 261 to 265 so, at 26.35 you are mid range. 10.16 cm wide is an E width. This does require a very specific boot as only one brand produces their wide boots for E width. I would strongly suggest either the Salomon Dialogue Wide of Salomon Synapse Wide in size 8.5.
> 
> Once we get you into your Mondopoint size, stiff boots may no longer be mandatory for you.
> 
> If you would like to post up images of your barefoot measurements being taken I will be happy to confirm all of this.
> 
> STOKED!


OK here are the photos I took...I'm a little confused about suggesting I'm a size 8.5 because I'm nowhere near that size at an 11 now. Maybe I miscalculate the cm? Anyway, check out the photos. 

Length photo, my heel is backed up to the wall and the tape measure is pushed firmly against the wall.

Width photo, the right side of my foot is on the 1 inch mark and the other side is at the 5 inch mark. 

I will check out the Salomon Dialogue and Synapse boots.


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## Wiredsport

Hi,

I am not finding an photos. Please resubmit those. Thanks!


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## jshreds

jshreds said:


> OK here are the photos I took...I'm a little confused about suggesting I'm a size 8.5 because I'm nowhere near that size at an 11 now. Maybe I miscalculate the cm? Anyway, check out the photos.
> 
> Length photo, my heel is backed up to the wall and the tape measure is pushed firmly against the wall.
> 
> Width photo, the right side of my foot is on the 1 inch mark and the other side is at the 5 inch mark.
> 
> I will check out the Salomon Dialogue and Synapse boots.


Helps if I post the photos.....


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## Wiredsport

Hi,
Your length image is showing just under 27 cm so Mondopoint 270 or size 9 US in snowboard boots. You don't want to use that technique for measuring width. Please place the inside (medial side) of your foot against a wall. Please then measure from the wall out to the widest point on the lateral (outside) of your foot.

STOKED!


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## Walter Munk

Some valid points here, but there's one key aspect being missed! The width of the snowboard is a fine compromise of not having toe/heel drag and applying torque from edge to edge comfortably. With short feet and a wide freestyle board you suffer "under hang" which makes applying force on your toe edge much harder. Everyone who surfs, where you even move your foot around from turn to turn for that reason, knows what I'm talking about.


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