# Burton 2020 fish?? Powder?



## Decade190 (Feb 26, 2012)

Hi all. 

Loved my old burton fish. 
Disappointed they didn’t have one this year - ignoring the mystery fish which is insanely overpriced. 

Anyone got any info on if the fish returns for 2020? Or any similar pow shapes?

Alternatively I might buy a bottom feeder this year if no good options next year. 

Cheers.


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## LALUNE (Feb 23, 2017)

Decade190 said:


> Hi all.
> 
> Loved my old burton fish.
> Disappointed they didn’t have one this year - ignoring the mystery fish which is insanely overpriced.
> ...


Fish will be a late release in 2020, that's why it's not on the catalog.

Plus, there will be a new model with directional camber profile, kinda like the hybrid of fish and cheetah, in 2021.


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## LALUNE (Feb 23, 2017)

Not sure what you are looking for in pow but I feel the Hometown Hero (12mm taper) will perform pretty decent in pow too. I am definitely buying one.


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## Decade190 (Feb 26, 2012)

LALUNE said:


> Decade190 said:
> 
> 
> > Hi all.
> ...


Oh right nice. So the fish won’t be out till late on the 2019-2020 season? 
I want the board for japow in January so maybe won’t have been released yet?

And the other board is the season after this?

I haven’t actually found a catalog for next season yet. Have you seen one?



LALUNE said:


> Not sure what you are looking for in pow but I feel the Hometown Hero (12mm taper) will perform pretty decent in pow too. I am definitely buying one.


It’s a specific powder board for japan. For January 2020 - three weeks of powder runs. Last year I brought a fish and an all mountain deck. Used the fish only as rode powder every single day. Sounds like the above is a new deck that’s maybe more all mountain freeride than pure powder?


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## Craig64 (Jul 16, 2015)

Decade190 said:


> Oh right nice. So the fish won’t be out till late on the 2019-2020 season?
> I want the board for japow in January so maybe won’t have been released yet?
> 
> And the other board is the season after this?
> ...


Grab a 2018 Fish. I did a few months ago on special. Ready for Hokkaido next week.


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## Decade190 (Feb 26, 2012)

Craig51 said:


> Decade190 said:
> 
> 
> > Oh right nice. So the fish won’t be out till late on the 2019-2020 season?
> ...


Haven’t seen any around in the UK. Also was the board I used last year. Keen to get something new (I always like new shiny things! And getting to try other things). 
I had to return it due to horribly delamming topsheet unfortunately


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## Decade190 (Feb 26, 2012)

Craig51 said:


> Decade190 said:
> 
> 
> > Oh right nice. So the fish won’t be out till late on the 2019-2020 season?
> ...


Haven’t seen any around in the UK. Also was the board I used last year. Keen to get something new (I always like new shiny things! And getting to try other things). 
I had to return it due to horribly delamming topsheet unfortunately 

- keen to know if there’ll be a 19/20 fish out in time for japan January 2020? 
Otherwise would people choose a bottom feeder as a worthy fish replacement?


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## Snowdaddy (Feb 2, 2018)

Decade190 said:


> Haven’t seen any around in the UK. Also was the board I used last year. Keen to get something new (I always like new shiny things! And getting to try other things).
> I had to return it due to horribly delamming topsheet unfortunately
> 
> - keen to know if there’ll be a 19/20 fish out in time for japan January 2020?
> Otherwise would people choose a bottom feeder as a worthy fish replacement?


Totally understand about wanting shiny new version, but here is an old one.

https://www.zerogchamonix.com/gb/me...101-3-31331.html?search_query=fish&results=25


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## Decade190 (Feb 26, 2012)

Snowdaddy said:


> Decade190 said:
> 
> 
> > Haven’t seen any around in the UK. Also was the board I used last year. Keen to get something new (I always like new shiny things! And getting to try other things).
> ...


Thanks buddy. Unfortunately there’s only a 161, I’d be a 156. And also it’s very very expensive. With the current exchange rate for euros and delivery cost I’d be paying very near original retail price when it first came out in 2017. I paid £350 new in 2017, this link works out at around £450. 

I can always get the new season models at 15% off minimum with online codes so I’d be paying more for this than a shiny new season one!

Which is why I’m looking at whether a new fish will be released in time?
And alternatively if the bottom feeder is an adequate alternative? as I can get that for a lot less than the above fish.


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## RIDERUK (Oct 22, 2014)

Decade190 said:


> Thanks buddy. Unfortunately there’s only a 161, I’d be a 156. And also it’s very very expensive. With the current exchange rate for euros and delivery cost I’d be paying very near original retail price when it first came out in 2017. I paid £350 new in 2017, this link works out at around £450.
> 
> I can always get the new season models at 15% off minimum with online codes so I’d be paying more for this than a shiny new season one!
> 
> ...


Also interested whether the bottom feeder can compete with the fish?
It's cheaper - but looking at the width may have similar surface area to a 156. 
Anyone ridden one?


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## Rip154 (Sep 23, 2017)

It's a standard short fat powder board, it will be great in powder. The fish is better in rough terrain, high speed, jumping and slashing, as well as groomers on the way down.


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## Decade190 (Feb 26, 2012)

Rip154 said:


> It's a standard short fat powder board, it will be great in powder. The fish is better in rough terrain, high speed, jumping and slashing, as well as groomers on the way down.


So no real benefits to the bottom feeder?
Try and find a fish?


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## Rip154 (Sep 23, 2017)

If it's just for an average powder ride, bottom feeder is more than good enough. Short fat is really fun for awhile, at least a season.


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## RIDERUK (Oct 22, 2014)

Rip154 said:


> It's a standard short fat powder board, it will be great in powder. The fish is better in rough terrain, high speed, jumping and slashing, as well as groomers on the way down.





Rip154 said:


> If it's just for an average powder ride, bottom feeder is more than good enough. Short fat is really fun for awhile, at least a season.


What if it’s not your average pow ride it’s a japan January board - deeeeep and fluffy!?

I imagine deep thinker would be great on the deep - I guess you’re saying that in those tracks between powder stash’s it falls down?

Looking at the deep thinker and the 156 fish, the fish has hardly any more effective edge as it loses loads on the swallow tail. 

Fish better for rough terrain and speed due to effective edge?
Presumably fish better for jumping and slashing as it has a longer tail?


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## Decade190 (Feb 26, 2012)

Yeah I have to say not convinced fully on the deep thinker. Probably too short and not enough volume. 

I want a 2018/19 or 2019/20 fish but doesn’t look like they’re doing one!!
Guess I can wait and try and find a mystery fish at 50% off in sales - at which point it will still be an expensive board just not insanely expensive (retail price = the price of a japan trip!!!!!). 

What boards can really match a fish as an alternative?


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## Rip154 (Sep 23, 2017)

Fish has a stiffer tail and it's not overly wide, that's why it's more versatile than bottom feeder. Deep thinker is a setback custom, which is fine if you like that, it's a do anything board. There are lots of powder boards that are better than the fish in my opinion.


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## Decade190 (Feb 26, 2012)

Rip154 said:


> Fish has a stiffer tail and it's not overly wide, that's why it's more versatile than bottom feeder. Deep thinker is a setback custom, which is fine if you like that, it's a do anything board. There are lots of powder boards that are better than the fish in my opinion.


Such as?

The deep thinker definitely doesn’t have the surface area for japan. Not wide enough and have to get it pretty long for it to compete with the fish/sushi/powder division type boards in a metre of fresh.

I think they mean the bottom feeder?


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## Decade190 (Feb 26, 2012)

Saw the burton 2020 catalog in a shop today. No fish! ?

Dammmmmm

Why would they have two years without a fish. 
Time to search for an old one


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## Snowdaddy (Feb 2, 2018)

If I wasn't such a fatso I would buy an Amplid. The boards look awesome and the guys who work there are really nice and helpful.


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## Snurfer757 (Nov 10, 2018)

Decade190 said:


> Yeah I have to say not convinced fully on the deep thinker. Probably too short and not enough volume.
> 
> I want a 2018/19 or 2019/20 fish but doesn’t look like they’re doing one!!
> Guess I can wait and try and find a mystery fish at 50% off in sales - at which point it will still be an expensive board just not insanely expensive (retail price = the price of a japan trip!!!!!).
> ...


I have a ~2011 Fish 156 and just retired it this season for a ‘17/18 Endeavor Archetype 154. Boards have a very similar outline when stacked. 

Just rode the Archetype for the first time, but it was all groomers so can’t confirm what everyone else is saying about it’s pow prowess. 

On groomers, it absolutely rips, no speed limit, ice is no issue. Similar ride to the fish I’d say, but lighter and more responsive. The big difference other than the camber profiles would be the more substantial tail on the Archetype, which helps with pop. 

I was getting face shots off of non existent stashes of snow, super fun.


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

Decade190 said:


> Saw the burton 2020 catalog in a shop today. No fish! ?
> 
> Dammmmmm
> 
> ...


What size Fish are you looking for? If 156, then the Bottom Feeder should be a good substitute for pow. Pretty sure that board can rip on groomers too.

If a 161 (ie if you're heavier than recommended for the Bottom F) then yeah look for a previous season 161 Fish...

By the way, i have a 161 Fish and a 152 Panhandler.... I would have a tough time choosing one over the other especially in deep fluffy pow (like BC interior). The 152 PH is THAT awesome, so I have no doubt the BF is too.


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## RIDERUK (Oct 22, 2014)

F1EA said:


> What size Fish are you looking for? If 156, then the Bottom Feeder should be a good substitute for pow. Pretty sure that board can rip on groomers too.
> 
> If a 161 (ie if you're heavier than recommended for the Bottom F) then yeah look for a previous season 161 Fish...
> 
> By the way, i have a 161 Fish and a 152 Panhandler.... I would have a tough time choosing one over the other especially in deep fluffy pow (like BC interior). The 152 PH is THAT awesome, so I have no doubt the BF is too.


I'm in he 156 fish range - does the bottom feeder have a similar volume for float? can't quite work it out on the measurements given. Looks the the 152 panhandler may have a fair amount more.
The fish has much more taper than the bottom feeder - as does the panhandler. Not sure how much this would effect it?

Cant see any actual reviews of the bottom feeder anywhere!
If there is to be no 2020 burton fish - and the bottom feeder has potential for japan next year i might grab one


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## LALUNE (Feb 23, 2017)

Snurfer757 said:


> On groomers, it absolutely rips, no speed limit, *ice is no issue*.


Whenever I saw people saying ice is no issue, I start to question if it's just me being a lame rider or people misuse hardpack/thin layer to pure ice skating


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

RIDERUK said:


> I'm in he 156 fish range - does the bottom feeder have a similar volume for float? can't quite work it out on the measurements given. Looks the the 152 panhandler may have a fair amount more.
> The fish has much more taper than the bottom feeder - as does the panhandler. Not sure how much this would effect it?
> 
> Cant see any actual reviews of the bottom feeder anywhere!
> If there is to be no 2020 burton fish - and the bottom feeder has potential for japan next year i might grab one


The volume in the BF is there... see *bold* below

Compared to the 152 Panhandler (so BF vs PH 152):

Length: 150 vs 152 cm
*Waist Width: 270 vs 265 mm*
Nose width: 319.2 vs 320.4 mm
*Tail width: 299.2 vs 290.4 mm*

On top of that, the BF has more setback.

The way I see it, the PH floats and feels floaty like a Fish, but rides more centered/evenly distributed. I feel like I have a ton more tail, sidecut and edge on the PH vs the Fish. The BF looks like a similar board, but with more setback, so it should feel a bit closer to a Fish than the PH (but not 100% the same because the volume is a bit more evenly distributed than the Fish).

So of course, Burton is not trying to make a Fish v2 with the BF. They are different boards, but the 3 of them (Fish, PH and BF) are very capable in powder.

On the other hand you have the current Stun Gun. This one feels very Fish like... just narrower altogether. From my very limited old cambered Fish experience (1.5 runs a year ago) the SG is kind of close to the old camber Fish. Again, not a direct replacement.... but more of an 'all mountain' pow board that kind of feels like a Fish (short edge, heavy setback, tight radius, similar flex, etc).




LALUNE said:


> Whenever I saw people saying ice is no issue, I start to question if it's just me being a lame rider or people misuse hardpack/thin layer to pure ice skating


I've ridden the Archetype in all out ICE. As in, the worst conditions I've ever seen at Whistler (during last season early February weird ice spell). And it was really good. Ice still sucks and I would rather not ride if it's icy, but if I had to... out of all my other boards, the Archetype is what I would use. 

But then again... the Archetype does not feel much like a Fish.


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## RIDERUK (Oct 22, 2014)

F1EA said:


> The volume in the BF is there... see *bold* below
> 
> Compared to the 152 Panhandler (so BF vs PH 152):
> 
> ...


thanks. that makes the volume issue clearer for sure

would you take a bottom feeder vs a fish to japan?


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

RIDERUK said:


> thanks. that makes the volume issue clearer for sure
> 
> would you take a bottom feeder vs a fish to japan?


Both 

But my Fish is a 161. If i had a 156 Fish, then I'd a have a tough time deciding. Probably a coin flip.

If you want to think about it, the Fish will have a closer to regular length and only slightly woder than normal (you still size down and it's wider than normal twins, but not that much). The BF will be considerably shorter and wider..... so if you have a preference for either, there you go.


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## Craig64 (Jul 16, 2015)

F1EA said:


> The volume in the BF is there... see *bold* below
> 
> Compared to the 152 Panhandler (so BF vs PH 152):
> 
> ...


I was thinking of grabbing my son either a Stun Gun or Archetype for next season around the 155 mark. He's 70kg/185cm/well advanced level/20yrs, for Japan as a powder/freeride deck. He has a 155 Branch Manager/Genesis EST and he rips on that. Loves riding powdery backcountry/off piste/tree runs. Would you say these boards are a bit similar. He likes the look off both them....., so for kids that their number one priority??? :facepalm3:


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

Craig51 said:


> I was thinking of grabbing my son either a Stun Gun or Archetype for next season around the 155 mark. He's 70kg/185cm/well advanced level/20yrs, for Japan as a powder/freeride deck. He has a 155 Branch Manager/Genesis EST and he rips on that. Loves riding powdery backcountry/off piste/tree runs. Would you say these boards are a bit similar. He likes the look off both them....., so for kids that their number one priority??? :facepalm3:


Yeah we kids are like that... 

The Stun Gun is very similar to the Branch Manager. I tried a 159 BM a couple yrs ago, compared to the SG it's stiffer, feels wider, a bit more edge hold and less setback (more tail) than the SG, but overall a similar kind of ride. 

Archetype is very different from the Stun Gun. Better at speed and edge hold, much more tail, feels like a twin...

Check em up in the pic.
158 AType, 155 SG, 161 Fish and 152 PH.

From these, I would bring the Fish and PH to a place like Japan. 

Looking at the pic... the PH doesnt really have THAT much tail against the Fish, but because it doesnt have any cutout, it definitely feels like a beefier tail...


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## Craig64 (Jul 16, 2015)

F1EA said:


> Yeah we kids are like that...
> 
> The Stun Gun is very similar to the Branch Manager. I tried a 159 BM a couple yrs ago, compared to the SG it's stiffer, feels wider, a bit more edge hold and less setback (more tail) than the SG, but overall a similar kind of ride.
> 
> ...


Thanks for that 

He has a '13 Burton Vapor as his cambered charger so I might grab him a SG for next year. I was thinking a 155 SG but they start at 68kg for this. He's mega fit and rides pretty powerful. He looks like he sits in the middle of a 150 SG. It's set back 20mm. This would be his primary 1 choice ride for Japan.


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## Craig64 (Jul 16, 2015)

I'm in Furano at the moment and today has to be one of the best/epic days I've ever had. We arrived 3 days ago and this is our 2nd day boarding. It's been snowing for 2 days solid now. Jumped from Archetype to Dump Truck yesterday. So today with over 20cm+ overnight, I broke out my '18 Fish 161 for the first time. Feeling a slight bit of nervousness as I ventured up the gondola knowing the exit is a steep drop off which requires some real solid carving. But from the 1st few turns I could feel this was an instant winner. It carves very solid on piste but truly comes to life in powder. So surfy and easy to wack around from side to side through the trees. Launched through heaps of powdery untouched areas with the nose plaining with ease up high. This board absolutely rips....., truly a 100% keeper.


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## RIDERUK (Oct 22, 2014)

Craig51 said:


> I'm in Furano at the moment and today has to be one of the best/epic days I've ever had. We arrived 3 days ago and this is our 2nd day boarding. It's been snowing for 2 days solid now. Jumped from Archetype to Dump Truck yesterday. So today with over 20cm+ overnight, I broke out my '18 Fish 161 for the first time. Feeling a slight bit of nervousness as I ventured up the gondola knowing the exit is a steep drop off which requires some real solid carving. But from the 1st few turns I could feel this was an instant winner. It carves very solid on piste but truly comes to life in powder. So surfy and easy to wack around from side to side through the trees. Launched through heaps of powdery untouched areas with the nose plaining with ease up high. This board absolutely rips....., truly a 100% keeper.


Fish over the dump truck and archetype in japan?


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## Craig64 (Jul 16, 2015)

I'd say take them all. The DT/Archetype will be the go when it stops dumping as it carves slightly better than the fish being freeride based. However I had a run yesterday and found a rare smoothed out area early on and I was dropping flat out at a phenomenal huge speed laying some mega heavy carves and thought to myself this fish is going to punch out the edge and I'll be history skittling me down so hard on my arse but it locked in so solid. I was really amazed. I spent the whole day though looking for untouched powder areas, which were frigging everywhere. God I love Japan. Riding with a pair of new SLX. Great boots so comfy......, 2 days in and feeling better each day.


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## Craig64 (Jul 16, 2015)

Looks like another 10cm overnight. Another day on the fish.??


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## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

I'm hearing reliable rumors of a late release Fish for 2020.


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## LALUNE (Feb 23, 2017)

Nivek said:


> I'm hearing reliable rumors of a late release Fish for 2020.


Mentioned that on the second post of this thread, but for some reason op seems to ignore that


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

LALUNE said:


> Mentioned that on the second post of this thread, but for some reason op seems to ignore that


lol
But next season is sooooooooo far


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## Giddyhitch (Nov 10, 2018)

Nivek said:


> I'm hearing reliable rumors of a late release Fish for 2020.





LALUNE said:


> Nivek said:
> 
> 
> > I'm hearing reliable rumors of a late release Fish for 2020.
> ...


Where are y’all hearing this from and is there any precedent for Burton doing a late release like this? Sales guy at the N* Burton shop was saying that the Fish was done after Mystery Fish, but that’s not saying much.


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## LALUNE (Feb 23, 2017)

F1EA said:


> lol
> But next season is sooooooooo far


True. And meanwhile I am drooling over that 2021 "Cheetah"ish board.


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

LALUNE said:


> True. And meanwhile I am drooling over that 2021 "Cheetah"ish board.


Hahaha Yeah that one looks dope. I wouldn't be surprised if it ends up being a slightly tweaked Cheetah... maybe 5mm more taper (5mm more nose width), that would make it even better (give it more float). The 2018 is slightly different from the OG as well; so with a small tweak, and still keep the same name.

Maybe you can demo it in the spring demos...


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

Giddyhitch said:


> Where are y’all hearing this from and is there any precedent for Burton doing a late release like this? Sales guy at the N* Burton shop was saying that the Fish was done after Mystery Fish, but that’s not saying much.


Burton always releases some late season "special" boards... so yeah there's precedent.


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## Craig64 (Jul 16, 2015)

Just got back from an awesome day on my '18 fish after a big dump overnight. Did a big exhausting trek up the mountain and blasted down a massive steep untouched powder drop. I was like up to my waist and easily gliding through....., soooooo deep. This board is so damn impressive. Carves really good back on the piste so has all bases covered for Japan.


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## LALUNE (Feb 23, 2017)

F1EA said:


> Hahaha Yeah that one looks dope. I wouldn't be surprised if it ends up being a slightly tweaked Cheetah... maybe 5mm more taper (5mm more nose width), that would make it even better (give it more float). The 2018 is slightly different from the OG as well; so with a small tweak, and still keep the same name.
> 
> Maybe you can demo it in the spring demos...


I saw like 4 guys with it on different days in Stowe. All of them told me that it's for 2021. So I guess I will just try to demo the HTH this spring and be cash ready when it drops.


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## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

My local rep. Apparently they have an outfit in AK that pretty much exclusively rents Fishes and asked if they would turn the presses back on for 100 or so SMUs. The answer was dont worry were making Fishes again, it's a late release for 2020.


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## RIDERUK (Oct 22, 2014)

Nivek said:


> My local rep. Apparently they have an outfit in AK that pretty much exclusively rents Fishes and asked if they would turn the presses back on for 100 or so SMUs. The answer was dont worry were making Fishes again, it's a late release for 2020.


Late release mean towards the end of the season 2019/2020?
Like march/april 2020? That seems a bit silly when the powders gone.

Or do you think it'll mean november/december 2019?


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## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

RIDERUK said:


> Nivek said:
> 
> 
> > My local rep. Apparently they have an outfit in AK that pretty much exclusively rents Fishes and asked if they would turn the presses back on for 100 or so SMUs. The answer was dont worry were making Fishes again, it's a late release for 2020.
> ...


Late December early Jan usually


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

Nivek said:


> Late December early Jan usually


Yes this ^

The late releases are typically around Dec.

There's been a few this season already... the retro graphic boards, wide Speed Date, the Led Zeppelin board, etc.


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## RIDERUK (Oct 22, 2014)

Nivek said:


> RIDERUK said:
> 
> 
> > Nivek said:
> ...





F1EA said:


> Nivek said:
> 
> 
> > Late December early Jan usually
> ...


Hmmm. I’m in the same boat. I’ll be headed to Japan probably around January 6th. Sold all my boards this season whilst out with an injury so I can start afresh next year!

Could risk it and not buy a powder board - waiting for the fish. 
If I see a cheap bottom feeder then may have to get one just in case I miss the fish. But think I’d rather get the 156 2019 fish. 
Hoping some images will be leaked before then - guessing the profile will be an identical fish so would like to see the graphics.


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## pikm57 (Dec 28, 2017)

Anyone knows what else, besides the Fish, will be in the late release?


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## coloradodirtbag (Feb 9, 2017)

pikm57 said:


> Anyone knows what else, besides the Fish, will be in the late release?


3d fish released today on the burton website. I believe the slush puppy will come out in 2 weeks.


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