# advice on speed ( not the drug )



## Mr. Polonia (Apr 5, 2009)

sometimes when im on the hill i see guys just FLY past me and i consider myself to be pretty intermediate, so my question is, what are they doing that im not to go even faster? 
After reading a LOT of posts over the summer about carving and such, i started practicing it in its true matter ( carving and not ruddering ) but the bottom line is that when i want to go fast i just go on one edge thru the whole run and of course do toe and heel transitions, but i still see guys that are faster.
any advice people?


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## Guest (Dec 9, 2009)

could be a bunch of different reasons.

could be a wax issue. if your base is dried out versus the other guy's finely waxed and tuned board, that would explain your board sticking more.

could also be your base itself. sintered boards are inherently faster than extruded ones.

could also be the way you distribute your weight. sometimes on steeper runs that look sketchy for a person's skill level, they unknowingly lean back a bit or don't lean forward enough.

could also be the carving. if you're still figuring out the proper carve over ruddering, you could still be ruddering slightly and dropping speed there.

could be someone just coming down from a double black and transitioning into a blue run.

could also be your lack of green. green makes you faster.


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## roremc (Oct 25, 2009)

Length of board and weight? (yours)


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## Mr. Polonia (Apr 5, 2009)

details abt myself:

board length: 160 burton custom x
160lbs @ 6 ft

i see where youre going with this but i do keep all those things in perspective:
my base is sintered, so therefore its fast but it DOES require more frequent waxing, and i also tend to keep my body centered at ALL times over my board regardless of the steepness of the mnt.


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## Guest (Dec 9, 2009)

As said already it could be your gear. Be sure to wax your board as necessary. As far as riding technique, when progressing you want to make your turns more dynamic as opposed to basic. In the most basic sense what this means is more body movement to control the board throughout the turn (not too much though). For example, a basic carve turn would be if I were to just lean over one of my edges to do a turn. When I want to transition into my next turn I simply transfer my weight to lean over my other edge. This is a very basic turn because it I am only tilting the board to get it to turn. So in order to make your turns more dynamic there are other things you can do other than just tilting your board. When progressing dynamic turns with my students I like to introduce the pressure concept after tilt. Basically what I mean by this is to increase or decrease the pressure exerted on your board throughout the turn. You can do this by flexing or extending your knees and ankles. When you flex your knees and ankles it brings your upper body closer to your board, which decreases the overall pressure you apply to the board. When you extend your knees and ankles it puts your upper body further away from the board, which increases overall pressure applied to the board. So try this, when you are at the end of a carve turn you should be moving more so across the hill than down the hill, and you should be ready to change over to your new edge soon. This is the point of the turn when you want to be flexed (compressed or crouched). Once you change over to your new edge slowly begin to extend your joints (as if you are beginning to stand up almost) so that you are almost fully extended by the time your board is pointed directly downhill (I say almost fully extend because you do not want to extend to the point where your knees are locked). Now the board is beginning to head back across the hill, so you should be starting to flex again. The idea is that you can use pressure to pump through turns almost as if you were pumping rollers on a boarder cross track. If this is confusing, don't worry about it. Many people have trouble transitioning their turns to a more dynamic approach simply by reading about it. It is not an impossible concept, but it is definitely something you need to mentally understand before you can effectively apply it physically.


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## Mr. Polonia (Apr 5, 2009)

so linking these dynamic turns will help you pick up speed faster as opposed to just riding on one edge the entire time * hypothetically * ?


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## Guest (Dec 9, 2009)

By utilizing the pressure concept, yes you will be able to pick up speed in turns, or keep a consistent speed on flatter terrain.


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## Mr. Polonia (Apr 5, 2009)

its pretty hard to understand your explanation by just reading it, but lets assume my board is waxed... everytime i want to link turns, before i do so, i must pretty much do a light hop just to release the pressure of my board against the snow in order to maintain that speed instead of "digging" in like u do on a basic turn?

does that seem like a right understanding?


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## Guest (Dec 9, 2009)

You do not need to hop and physically release the contact with the snow, just a crouch. It's just like as if you were pumping a roller. When you come over top of the roller you crouch to get over it, and then when coming down you extend to create pressure which translates into speed. Except in this case there are no rollers, just flat ground. When you crouch at the beginning of the turn you are preparing yourself to extend which creates pressure. That pressure has to go somewhere, and pressure always takes the path of least resistance. So as long as your edge is firmly planted in the snow, that pressure will translate into forward (or downhill) momentum.


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## Mr. Polonia (Apr 5, 2009)

ohhhh i think i get it now...

what i tend to do is always crouch on turns and pretty much stay crouched throughout the whole run and i always see myself losing a lil bit of speed whenever i transition, so therefore i just stay on one edge.

so what i need to do is:

1- crouch before the turn
2-after the turn is almost complete, i stand up slightly just to give the board more pressure against the snow

correct?


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## Guest (Dec 9, 2009)

You are partially correct. Yes, you crouch before the turn. So that is right. Now, just so we both understand each other, lets define one turn as a C in the snow. So as you said you crouch at the beginning, or top, of the C. Once the board actually starts to turn downhill is when you start extending. You want to be almost fully extended (but still keeping knees, hips, ankles slightly bent) by the middle of the C. And then you start crouching, or flexing, again so that you are crouched by the bottom of the C, and your are ready for your next turn.


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## Mr. Polonia (Apr 5, 2009)

i get it i get it now for sure :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

thanks so much for the awesome advice, cant wait to try it this weekend


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## Guest (Dec 9, 2009)

Awesome. But don't be too bummed if you don't notice any differences at first. It takes time to learn, and it's hard to notice where you specifically need improvement with your own perspective. But just keep trying. Good luck.


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## Kingscare (Aug 13, 2009)

I'm dumb, people are probably just using their base more efficiently and reducing the friction they encounter.


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## Guest (Dec 9, 2009)

i think by the hop description he means to use your board's camber to pop you out of the turn and into the next. going into a turn, you're pushing into the camber and coming out of it, you release the energy to pop you into the next position. this provides a more fluid turn, maximizing contact through a carve and minimizing it during transition.


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## CaptT (Sep 23, 2009)

The only thing I can think of is to say "pump your legs".....can't really explain it further....it is just so...


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## Guest (Dec 9, 2009)

Kingscare said:


> You're a light weight as well, the dude closer to 200 pounds will be going faster than you (assuming same friction).


false. sir isaac newton got hit on the head for a reason.


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## Grizz (Nov 10, 2008)

> Originally Posted by Kingscare
> You're a light weight as well, the dude closer to 200 pounds will be going faster than you (assuming same friction).





kyouness said:


> false. sir isaac newton got hit on the head for a reason.


Not completely false. If you are only talking about gravity then yes, objects with similar drag but different mass will fall to earth at the same rate of speed. But snowboarding isn't a free fall situation. 

Think about inertia. A jet ski moving 20mph stops a lot quicker than a supertanker at the same speed. A boarder with greater mass, will carry speed across less steep areas, better than a boarder of lesser mass.


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## Kingscare (Aug 13, 2009)

Grizz said:


> Not completely false. If you are only talking about gravity then yes, objects with similar drag but different mass will fall to earth at the same rate of speed. But snowboarding isn't a free fall situation.
> 
> Think about inertia. A jet ski moving 20mph stops a lot quicker than a supertanker at the same speed. A boarder with greater mass, will carry speed across less steep areas, better than a boarder of lesser mass.


RIGHT! I knew I wasn't completely wrong, well only sort of.


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## Mr. Polonia (Apr 5, 2009)

thanks for the info guys, now the hardest thing is gonna be executing it without "overthinking" it,

its goin to be difficult goin with the flow, and doing everything mentioned above simultaneously.

time to eat some crap and achieve what my signature says :


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## Guest (Dec 10, 2009)

Grizz said:


> Not completely false. If you are only talking about gravity then yes, objects with similar drag but different mass will fall to earth at the same rate of speed. But snowboarding isn't a free fall situation.
> 
> Think about inertia. A jet ski moving 20mph stops a lot quicker than a supertanker at the same speed. A boarder with greater mass, will carry speed across less steep areas, better than a boarder of lesser mass.


yeah, i forgot about inertia. friction from contact between the snow and the board will have less effect on a heavier rider than a lighter one due to the higher inertial mass. gotta love physics.


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## G2309 (Oct 22, 2009)

Hopping into turns may not be necessary but it can be a lot of fun.
I found with going faster it was a confidence an experience thing. When I felt a bit unstable I found i checked my speed without really thinking about it. Apply pressure to the edge to slow down before the next turn.


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## Guest (Dec 10, 2009)

I find that I usually go faster than I care to... but that's usually because my balls sink into my stomach anywhere near 40mph.


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## Reede (Feb 16, 2009)

Those blokes you see screaming down the hill aren't necessarily turning better, they aren't turning at all. It amazes me how fast some guys can go. They must get wrecked when they cone off at that speed.


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## AWNOW (Sep 12, 2009)

A lot of analysis for a simple concept:

Point your board down hill and bend the hell out of your knees. There is no secret in special carving or turning or using fairy dust. Next time you are working on your speed and you feel like you want to rotate edges, wait 3 seconds and then do it. You will just become more comfortable at speed this way. The quickest way to get from A to B is a straight line.


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## Grizz (Nov 10, 2008)

AWNOW said:


> Point your board down hill and bend the hell out of your knees.


Knees are easy, most people need to flex their ankles.



AWNOW said:


> The quickest way to get from A to B is a straight line.


While we know from geometry class that the *SHORTEST* distance from A to B is a straight line, that doesn't mean it's the quickest, particularly if you're running gates or in a BX race.

Turns can be faster than running straight. You can generate speed by turning, similar to pumping the tranny in a half pipe to gain amplitude. 

Clean turns also allow you to maintain speed while you move around an obstacle unlike going straight, redirecting, and going straight again.


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## Guest (Dec 10, 2009)

kyouness said:


> friction from contact between the snow and the board will have less effect on a heavier rider than a lighter one due to the higher inertial mass. gotta love physics.


are you sure this is the case?

go to the top of a slope with a snowboard with nobody on it and a snowboard with a 200lb guy on it. give each a gentle shove - to get them going. which gets to the bottom faster?

alasdair


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## Guest (Dec 10, 2009)

alasdairm said:


> are you sure this is the case?
> 
> go to the top of a slope with a snowboard with nobody on it and a snowboard with a 200lb guy on it. give each a gentle shove - to get them going. which gets to the bottom faster?
> 
> alasdair


a lot of things factor into the actual physics of speed. gravity, friction, inertia, wind resistance, etc. i'm much too lazy to try to go into the very details of it, but a snowboard with nobody on it encounters virtually no wind resistance and much, much less friction than a snowboard with 200lb on it. however, a snowboard with 120lb on it and a snowboard with 200lb on it would have different physics on it altogether. you add in downforce which increases friction, reduces lift, and increases wind resistance. in this case, inertia and gravity play much bigger roles in fighting friction and resistance.

add to the fact that when pushing an empty snowboard down a hill, the larger object needs a longer distance to get to speed.

i personally don't think the difference in speed is all that much when it comes to rider weight, however, but the heavier person does have a slight edge.


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## Guest (Dec 10, 2009)

kyouness said:


> friction from contact between the snow and the board will have less effect on a heavier rider than a lighter one due to the higher inertial mass.





kyouness said:


> ...but a snowboard with nobody on it encounters virtually no wind resistance and much, much *less friction than a snowboard with 200lb* on it.





kyouness said:


> ...you add in *downforce which increases friction*, reduces lift, and increases wind resistance. in this case, inertia and gravity play much bigger roles in fighting friction and resistance.


to me, your first statement completely contradicts the other two statements, hence confusion.

alasdair


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## CaptT (Sep 23, 2009)

Snowolf said:


> Dynamic riding or specifically dynamic carving, will really help as well. In this type of riding, you sink down low to the board prior to turn initiation. As you initiate the turn, gradually extend to add more force to the board which will also help accelerate you down the hill.



This is precisely what I was referring to when I said "pump your legs"....great explanation!!


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## Guest (Dec 10, 2009)

alasdairm said:


> to me, your first statement completely contradicts the other two statements, hence confusion.
> 
> alasdair


Yeah I haven't taken a physics course in years so i'm a tad rusty on the formulas  momentum is the key factor.

A good example of mass vs friction would be to drop a 100lb object into a pool vs dropping a 200lb object of similar shape. Which one is more likely to reach the bottom faster?


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## AWNOW (Sep 12, 2009)

Grizz said:


> Knees are easy, most people need to flex their ankles.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



That last part was a joke, Mr. OneUp


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## Grizz (Nov 10, 2008)

AWNOW said:


> That last part was a joke, Mr. OneUp


Ha Ha?:dunno:

It didn't seem funny or make much sense, but that's par for the course around here. 

Sorry I took it seriously.


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## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

Mr Polonia,
physics, mass/friction/momentum, leg pumping, acceleration out of the curve, straight line, flat base, being light on the deck....bhah, bhah, bhah...its called balls...Mr Polonia, BALLS.

Its abit different for women bombers...they seem to be graceful, elegant, hardly move and they can fucking fly down the hill...it's an amazing thing to watch. Comparative to guys do this power drama speed thing blasting down the hill...fast women seem float, they don't appear to be going fast...but are just hauling ass.


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## Guest (Dec 13, 2009)

I wonder if I'd be a better boarder on amphetamines.


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## Mr. Polonia (Apr 5, 2009)

this is all true...yday i was on a black diamond and there was this chick who mustve been gliding on Aladdins magical carpet. She was pretty much floating at great speeds.....that bitch!:laugh:


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## Guest (Dec 13, 2009)

Well, i can proudly say im one of those chicks that does speed, not terrain. Im trying tho!:laugh:
For me, i learned to get speed by not really worrying if weather im going to crash or not. See, when you worry, you tense up, and then your le3gs tense up, and you instinctivly go slower. Just try to forget about falling, and bend your knees, when you start out, dont do any turns, go straight down, start turning about 2/4 down the run. Small turns tho, enough to turn you direction, but not enough to take up a lot of space to do so. 
Hope this helps


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## Mr. Polonia (Apr 5, 2009)

yea that what i usually do...very small turns which pretty much just get me from one edge to the next.
But im trying to learn this dynamic turning which Snowolf has explained and its kinda hard to ignore your balls shrivering into your stomache. You pick up speed so fast


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## Birk (Jan 28, 2009)

i tend to not turn when I bomb a hill, i bend my knees, go as low as i can, and hold an edge slightly. I've never even heard of real carving before joining this forum, it just seemed more efficient not to skid down.. Go with your instincts and it'll come to you eventually.
Good luck!


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## twin89 (Jan 21, 2009)

i remeber towards end of last season i was asking pretty much the same question as the op. now my 5th time up this season, and i am flying down runs that last season i wouldn't have dared too, just saying, speed comes naturally, don't push it or you may hurt yourself.


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## Mr. Polonia (Apr 5, 2009)

well Snowolf, after performing my first waxing job thanks to ur videos, i should probably practice these turns on a bunny hill to prevent me from goin 0-60 in 2 sec 

on a serious note...i have been practicing all the advise given to me and for now goin toe side as the downhill edge was way easier to do as compared to the heel edge. Not bad for day 1.

the speed is not what im scared of the most...its when ur bombing and u have to avoid bumps and moguls on the way and that kinda gets u side tracked


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## Mr. Polonia (Apr 5, 2009)

Snowolf said:


> If you are too stiff, it is like an empty 3/4 pickup truck on a wash board gravel road......:laugh:


Speaking from experience Mr. Trucker? :laugh:

Damn you...youre right again... I will def look downhill when im on my heel edge. I think that was the last piece of the puzzle which never came to my mind, because where your head goes, thats where your shoulders and board want to go :thumbsup:

thank you Sir!


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## linvillegorge (Jul 6, 2009)

twin89 said:


> i remeber towards end of last season i was asking pretty much the same question as the op. now my 5th time up this season, and i am flying down runs that last season i wouldn't have dared too, just saying, speed comes naturally, don't push it or you may hurt yourself.


That's been my experience. I'm still a relative newb, but since I really learned to link turns and get more comfortable with that, I've been improving by leaps and bounds. Every time I hit the slopes, I'm getting better and better and faster and faster. Once you break through a wall, it's just incredible how fast you progress. I'm bombing runs now that just 5 trips ago I probably would've been side slipping down.


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## Mr. Polonia (Apr 5, 2009)

linvillegorge said:


> That's been my experience. I'm still a relative newb, but since I really learned to link turns and get more comfortable with that, I've been improving by leaps and bounds. Every time I hit the slopes, I'm getting better and better and faster and faster. Once you break through a wall, it's just incredible how fast you progress. I'm bombing runs now that just 5 trips ago I probably would've been side slipping down.


I hear what u guys are saying...this is my third season, and in the beginning of my 2nd season i started doin diamonds so yea, once u progress a little then u pick new things up quicker.

The speed thing is like an addiction, once u experience it for the first time, you want to try out a stronger dosage cuz the previous just doesnt cut it anymore haha


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