# Need advice. Yes The Greats, or Neversummer Cobra?



## dfischer (Jun 1, 2012)

Demo'd a lot of boards today and bindings. My favorite seemed to be the Cobra and The Greats from Yes.

Looking for more play than my current Arbor Blacklist in terms of presses/butter, especially regarding the weight of the board, and still have the ability to pop jumps in the park for 3's and do the same for backcountry jumps in the pow.

Which would you pick?

Edit:: Might as well add the Proto to this list as it was pretty great, it felt a lot like my Blacklist just a bit more soft and stable (I guess softer + RC tech?)


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## CheeseForSteeze (May 11, 2011)

Neither. I have a Yes The Greats 154 and it's way burlier than my Westmark 150. It's an awesome board for charging bigger features in the park; I'd call it one of the better slopestyle boards for advanced/expert freestyle guys. I have yet to even approach the limits of what it can do.


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## dfischer (Jun 1, 2012)

CheeseForSteeze said:


> Neither. I have a Yes The Greats 154 and it's way burlier than my Westmark 150. It's an awesome board for charging bigger features in the park; I'd call it one of the better slopestyle boards for advanced/expert freestyle guys. I have yet to even approach the limits of what it can do.


What would you suggest then?


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## linvillegorge (Jul 6, 2009)

In terms of NS, I'd go Evo based on what you've said.


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## dfischer (Jun 1, 2012)

I need a wide so would a Revolver still do?


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## rambob (Mar 5, 2011)

I have a Legends 158 with a downsized 11 boot and lgxl Cartels: Real nice 'all mt freestyle' ride. I've also found it to be really fast for its length. I really like the board, seems to be put together well too.


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## CheeseForSteeze (May 11, 2011)

You want a board more playful than the Blacklist but also capable of charging back country features? That's going to be hard to find as the Blacklist/Westmark is one of the most versatile boards out there. I found my Westmark to be more than playful enough to do most things.

The Evo might work but only if you are a lighter rider.


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## jdang307 (Feb 6, 2011)

dfischer said:


> Demo'd a lot of boards today and bindings. My favorite seemed to be the Cobra and The Greats from Yes.
> 
> Looking for more play than my current Arbor Blacklist in terms of presses/butter, especially regarding the weight of the board, and still have the ability to pop jumps in the park for 3's and do the same for backcountry jumps in the pow.
> 
> ...


This post is a little confusing. You have the blacklist, and rode both the cobra and the greats so you know what each can do. I had a westmark and now a cobra. and the cobra is is not more pressable/butterable than the westmark by a long shot. You can do it, but that's not what its for. You need to decide. Press/Butter, or big features?

I did find the Westmark to be about the same but a little more stiff than the Evo for presses. But the Evo isn't charging hard.

Perhaps a Coda? But you already have an Arbor so perhaps you are looking for a change.


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## dfischer (Jun 1, 2012)

I think I need a wide board because on my Blacklist I already have some minor issues with boot length (size 12). I don't think there's a more buttery board on the Arbor lineup.

I like the Blacklist but I found the dampening to be pretty crap when the snow is crap.

I guess you can't really have it all.

What I want more than anything is just a great all around board that is easy to butter/press with. If such a thing exists, more buttery + small jumps + powder (doesn't have to be fast). Don't care so much for rails, speed, or massive jumps. Had to be mid-wide or wide.

(Evo -> Revolver, was decent. Not sure how it holds up in Powder though? Made me think of the Proto but then the Proto is very similar to my Blacklist...)


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## jdang307 (Feb 6, 2011)

What's the wide of the Evo. Revo? See if you can give that a try. Small jumps should be fine. (I don't do small jumps I do micro jumps ... making my way up :yahoo

The Evo actually isn't a noodle it's a good mid flex. I didn't have mine long enough (gear whore) but I do regret not keeping it, hearing Cheese in another threat talk about how it breaks in at the tips. I found the tips stiffer at first and was bending the board in the middle.


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## dfischer (Jun 1, 2012)

jdang307 said:


> What's the wide of the Evo. Revo? See if you can give that a try. Small jumps should be fine. (I don't do small jumps I do micro jumps ... making my way up :yahoo
> 
> The Evo actually isn't a noodle it's a good mid flex. I didn't have mine long enough (gear whore) but I do regret not keeping it, hearing Cheese in another threat talk about how it breaks in at the tips. I found the tips stiffer at first and was bending the board in the middle.


Yeah and the Revolver is a tad bit stiffer than the Evo. 

So confused...


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## Weipim (Nov 20, 2012)

i have blacklist, yes the greats, neversummer SL etc. To be honest, BL is the most playful deck in my quiver and it's hard to find something more "butter-friendly" than BL if you don't want to go noodle. to some extend even, the BL Tip and Tail is a tad too soft for me that landing jumps needs extra attention, but also it maybe i downsized to 154 with 190#s. and if your size 12 is really causing a problem ,then the Yes is going to be too narrow imo.


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## rambob (Mar 5, 2011)

I easily fit my size 11s on a Greats 158 and 156. I actually wear size 11.5 or 12s in some boots bit these are the downsized Burtons (in Burton bindings). Dont think you's have a problem with 12s in a 158 or 156 Legends.


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## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

If you actually rode the Greats and like the way it butters then just get that. Its a super rad board. If you do want something softer I had a great time on the Yes Jackpot. The other one I might look at wouls be the Flow Verve for something softer. I could make the 154 my only board and I weigh 150lbs.


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## jdang307 (Feb 6, 2011)

Nivek, how do you rate the flex of the Verve compared to say, Artifact rocker and Evo. Does it slot in between? Or comparable to the Evo?


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## dfischer (Jun 1, 2012)

Anyone ride either of these Rome boards?

Rome Tour Snowboard Review | The Good RideThe Good Ride
Rome Agent Rocker Snowboard Review | The Good RideThe Good Ride

Rome Tour/Rome Agent Rocker?

Rome Tour review seems almost too good to be true. Above all I want something very light.

The problem I have with the Blacklist is that I think it's a pretty heavy board and it doesn't have enough dampening. That's what I liked about the NS's I was demoing.

Anyone have recommendations on a really light board with medium-soft flex and good at jumps/groomers/pow?


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## CheeseForSteeze (May 11, 2011)

The Never Summers are definitely more damp than the Arbor Blacklist/Westmark but, quite frankly, the Westmark/Blacklist is not hard to press. If you are having trouble, I don't think another board is going to make a difference. You could get the Arbor Draft which is like a noodle but if you hate the damping on the Blacklist, you will absolutely hate the Draft. I rode one and just rutted up inruns for kickers made it hard to even get off the lip of the jump with any balance.

The thing I like more about the Evo is the camber brings the contact points closer making it easier to control butters. The Arbor is a lot more saucer like if that makes sense. The Greats is an absolute chore to even ride a 5-0 and I feel that for its stiffness it should be more damp. Also, the Tragna-Maction side cut is completely unnecessary IMO.

You want a board that can do it all; I say you have it. If you can press that board, you really need to practice. I can butter it up pretty easily on my Westmark which has about 50 days on it. Another board is not going to help. Sorry to be blunt but if you get a softer board like the Draft, you will hate life when the snowpack gets even a little rutted up.


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## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

jdang307 said:


> Nivek, how do you rate the flex of the Verve compared to say, Artifact rocker and Evo. Does it slot in between? Or comparable to the Evo?


Comparable to the Evo in my experience. Maybe a little softer torsionally.


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## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

dfischer said:


> Anyone ride either of these Rome boards?
> 
> Rome Tour Snowboard Review | The Good RideThe Good Ride
> Rome Agent Rocker Snowboard Review | The Good RideThe Good Ride
> ...


A. Disregard everything the Goodride says. They're incredibly dumb.
2. Your Blacklist is not heavy, and the NeverSummers you rode I guarantee were heavier
III. Flow Verve, Salomon Villain, Rossi Retox or Trickstick, Bataleon Airobic, Capita DOA, YES Jackpot, or a Nitro Rook.


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## dfischer (Jun 1, 2012)

Nivek said:


> A. Disregard everything the Goodride says. They're incredibly dumb.
> 2. Your Blacklist is not heavy, and the NeverSummers you rode I guarantee were heavier
> III. Flow Verve, Salomon Villain, Rossi Retox or Trickstick, Bataleon Airobic, Capita DOA, YES Jackpot, or a Nitro Rook.


Thank you very much. I'm going to investigate those boards.

Didn't realize how dumb Goodride was. Any recommendations for similar sites?

I think I'll build a community peer-reviewed gear site this weekend... interested? 

The blacklist tugs on my foot on the lift... the NS Proto definitely felt like a feather with some flux bindings. But maybe it was the flux bindings that did it. 

Thank you!


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## dfischer (Jun 1, 2012)

dfischer said:


> Thank you very much. I'm going to investigate those boards.
> 
> Didn't realize how dumb Goodride was. Any recommendations for similar sites?
> 
> ...


P.s someone mentioned a Rossignol Templar -- any opinion of this to add to the list of research?


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## dfischer (Jun 1, 2012)

Ok let's make this simpler. I want two boards.

1) For park (Because my home mountain is Big Bear). This will be park features. More jumps than rails/boxes but will do rails/boxes the better I get. If bear happens to dump then it'll be very tame powder runs. For this is what I need help on. So far will take a look at the following boards in terms of research "Flow Verve, Salomon Villain, Rossi Retox or Trickstick, Bataleon Airobic, Capita DOA, YES Jackpot, or a Nitro Rook." + Rossignol Templar.

2) Whistler pacific north west fucking conqueror of the mountain. For this I'm thinking Never Summer Cobra or an alternative suggestion?


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## linvillegorge (Jul 6, 2009)

Cobra would be fine for your #2, but honestly, I'd go Heritage if you're going NS.

I just don't dig the Cobra all that much. Love the Heritage. Honestly, for my riding style, I probably should've went Heritage > Proto.


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## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

dfischer said:


> Thank you very much. I'm going to investigate those boards.
> 
> Didn't realize how dumb Goodride was. Any recommendations for similar sites?
> 
> ...


angrysnowboarder.com


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## dfischer (Jun 1, 2012)

linvillegorge said:


> Cobra would be fine for your #2, but honestly, I'd go Heritage if you're going NS.
> 
> I just don't dig the Cobra all that much. Love the Heritage. Honestly, for my riding style, I probably should've went Heritage > Proto.


I do like the Heritage quite a bit as well. 



Nivek said:


> angrysnowboarder.com


Only other one I know besides shayboarder.

----

Just thought of another comparison... Is there any board out there that's similar to the Arbor Blacklist but "lighter?" whatever board comes to mind?


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## hktrdr (Apr 3, 2012)

dfischer said:


> Only other one I know besides shayboarder.


Ah, Shay is pulling of an interesting stunt: Competes with both Angry (in terms of looks) and TheGoodRide (in terms of quality of reviews - as shallow as puddle on a sidewalk).



dfischer said:


> Just thought of another comparison... Is there any board out there that's similar to the Arbor Blacklist but "lighter?" whatever board comes to mind?


We have been over this weight thing many times. Most recently here, but more fact-based here.
In short, differences in weight for modern gear are completely negligible/imperceptible for riding. And weight varies much more for boots and bindings than for boards (note that boots+bindings weigh more than the board in most cases).


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## dfischer (Jun 1, 2012)

hktrdr said:


> Ah, Shay is pulling of an interesting stunt: Competes with both Angry (in terms of looks) and TheGoodRide (in terms of quality of reviews - as shallow as puddle on a sidewalk).
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks. I can get that.

Then... what about a board like the Blacklist but with more dampening (Is that the NS Proto?)


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## hktrdr (Apr 3, 2012)

dfischer said:


> Thanks. I can get that.
> 
> Then... what about a board like the Blacklist but with more dampening (Is that the NS Proto?)


You will have a hard time finding that. Maybe the new Proto HD, but the Blacklist/Westmark was at least as damp as the Proto CT (aside from being just a better board all around).


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## dfischer (Jun 1, 2012)

Ok made my decision. I'm buying a NS Cobra for Whistler conditions, but still looking for a playful cheap(er) deck for park/Big Bear riding. So far the upcoming Rossi Rocknrolla looks pretty interesting because of this review -> Rossignol RocknRolla Video Review Preview SIA13 - Board Insiders - Real Riders - Real Reviews

But seems like that's the first time it'll be out. Trying to investigate the other boards still. Seems like flat between the feet and rocker at the tips is where it's at for a playful park board. Looking for something light that can handle jumps+rails+boxes+butters.


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## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

HEYYYY! You dug up another bullshit review website!

Still, the Rock'n'Rolla is actually a pretty rad board. It will be in the reviews this summer on Angry.

I wanna dig more into this "dampening" thing you keep complaining about. Are talking about damp as in stable at speed or damp as in smooth riding on crud? I rode the first year Blacklist and while it wasn't a super damp board in terms of smoothness (which to be honest I hate super damp boards) I certainly didn't feel like the board was harsh. Actually same goes for stability at high speed too. Completely capable charging around.

If the harshness you're talking about is the smoothness of the ride, get some new bindings and keep your Blacklist. Something like Raiden Zeros or Phantoms, or K2 Company IPO's.

If it's the stablity at speed dampening then you might just be better off on something Flat or Camrock. Basically anything that isn't rocker between the feet.

There's also the possibility that you just want to get a new board and are digging for any excuse to justify the purchase. If this is the case just say so. We don't judge, much. 

Also this thing about "light". Why is this such a big concern? The Blacklist isn't heavy. And as I said earlier, I guarantee the Cobra is heavier. Unless you're rollin a tank like a Nightmare weight shouldn't really be a concern.


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## dfischer (Jun 1, 2012)

Nivek said:


> HEYYYY! You dug up another bullshit review website!
> 
> Still, the Rock'n'Rolla is actually a pretty rad board. It will be in the reviews this summer on Angry.
> 
> ...


It's the feeling of stability + the "chop" of "crud."

I'm rather new, but the only thing I noticed as a comparison is when I was demoing the NS boards, I felt more locked in to my turns and had a greater sense of stability than the Blacklist. Although I know the Blacklist has those extra edges to dig in, it felt like it worked but overall that hybrid camber definitely was more stable over all and I liked it. The NS board also flew through the crud with stability so I liked that too.

I've definitely charged on my Blacklist. I love the board. I just want to get a feeling of other boards too. I want to understand all dynamics and differences. I definitely do want a new board but not because I need an excuse to justify the purchase. I want to explore the spectrum of different styles of boards. Between flex, to shape, etc... I really want to understand all the nuisances because... well... I love snowboarding and I love tech and I want to understand it all.

I was thinking of buying Now Bindings or Flux DMC Lights.

The Blacklist 2012 was certainly heavier with my Cartels 2012/NX2 GT's 2013 compared to Cobra 2014 + Flux RL Bindings 2014.

I like the idea of having the Cobra for Whistler Freeride/some Freestyle conditions. And then one other really playful board for a park mountain like Big Bear to learn features. I'm barley getting accustomed to the park but want to get better at it. I've done mostly freeride.

I'll hold my purchase on the Cobra until the "summer angry" reviews come out to see if there's any gamechangers.

I'm interested to see how that RocknRolla review comes out. I want to most likely jump on an end of season deal for one of the more playful/flexible boards that we're talking about but still not sure what board that is yet.


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## jdang307 (Feb 6, 2011)

Nivek said:


> HEYYYY! You dug up another bullshit review website!
> 
> Still, the Rock'n'Rolla is actually a pretty rad board. It will be in the reviews this summer on Angry.
> 
> ...


I might disagree here and I wish my buddy's Blacklist was still here so I could weigh it. Both with 390 bosses on my Cobra 153 felt lighter than his 154 Blacklist.

Again, I wish it was here so I could weigh it but that was my impression. His board was in my garage for a month so I had to move them both around quite a bit whenever my wife needed to access something.

Wow that rocknrolla looks fun. That just might be my new bear mountain board. 

Is it a softer board? It looks like it's breaking in half when he's on a rail but that could be the fisheye


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## dfischer (Jun 1, 2012)

jdang307 said:


> I might disagree here and I wish my buddy's Blacklist was still here so I could weigh it. Both with 390 bosses on my Cobra 153 felt lighter than his 154 Blacklist.
> 
> Again, I wish it was here so I could weigh it but that was my impression. His board was in my garage for a month so I had to move them both around quite a bit whenever my wife needed to access something.
> 
> ...


You're up in Bear too? 

Yeah so far I think I'll wait for the rocknrolla for my bear board. I do want a PNW "Whistler" board and I still liked the Cobra for that... I dunno, it just felt really nice in terms of performance. That R&C + the flex + spaded tail just felt like a great combo for Whistler.

The only other board I'm considering right now for Bear is Nitro Rook.


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## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

So the dampness you're talking about in reference to the two boards is purely a style change. The Cobra is a freeride board meant for pushing through chop. It's stiffer than the Blacklist. Ride a Wasteland and you'll feel the same thing. What you'll loose going stiffer is playfullness.

Well anyway, you're set on a Cobra, fine. That weight difference you were feeling was the bindings for sure. When Flux wants to make a light binding, they succeed. And they are stupid light. And compare to your GT's they might be close to a full pound lighter.

The boards I want with me at Bear would be a Flow Verve, Nitro Swindle, Signal Park or if were talking 2014 the Freedom Machine, Salomon Villain, 2014 Nitro Pyro, Bataleon Disaster, Yes Jackpot, or a Echelon Rounds.


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## dfischer (Jun 1, 2012)

Nivek said:


> So the dampness you're talking about in reference to the two boards is purely a style change. The Cobra is a freeride board meant for pushing through chop. It's stiffer than the Blacklist. Ride a Wasteland and you'll feel the same thing. What you'll loose going stiffer is playfullness.
> 
> Well anyway, you're set on a Cobra, fine. That weight difference you were feeling was the bindings for sure. When Flux wants to make a light binding, they succeed. And they are stupid light. And compare to your GT's they might be close to a full pound lighter.
> 
> The boards I want with me at Bear would be a Flow Verve, Nitro Swindle, Signal Park or if were talking 2014 the Freedom Machine, Salomon Villain, 2014 Nitro Pyro, Bataleon Disaster, Yes Jackpot, or a Echelon Rounds.


You rock. Thanks! I really appreciate your feedback and insight on the mechanics of the technology.

Are Flux bindings considered good? At least the higher end ones like DMCC? Or are the ones you suggested still better? I was thinking of the Now IPO as well (next years model I was demoing). Not as light as Flux but had more padding and response.

Just out of curiosity what would you choose for a freeride board instead of Cobra?


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## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

dfischer said:


> You rock. Thanks! I really appreciate your feedback and insight on the mechanics of the technology.
> 
> Are Flux bindings considered good? At least the higher end ones like DMCC? Or are the ones you suggested still better? I was thinking of the Now IPO as well (next years model I was demoing). Not as light as Flux but had more padding and response.
> 
> Just out of curiosity what would you choose for a freeride board instead of Cobra?


DMCC's are a killer binding and one of my favorites for a do everything ride. NOW's are also amazing. Either will kill it.

For freeride over a Cobra I'd pick the K2 Ultradream, Ride Berzerker, Rossi XV, Yes PYL, or anything from Venture.


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## dfischer (Jun 1, 2012)

Just bought a Rome Artifact Rocker 158w (I'm 190lb 6'4) for $150 in Excellent condition off of Geartrade.

Cheap as hell and seems angry approved so felt like I should jump on it. Seems playful! 

Thanks for the feedback. I'm going to try to get some DMCC Lights or Now IPO's and check out those freeride boards. Thanks!


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## jdang307 (Feb 6, 2011)

Nivek said:


> So the dampness you're talking about in reference to the two boards is purely a style change. The Cobra is a freeride board meant for pushing through chop. It's stiffer than the Blacklist. Ride a Wasteland and you'll feel the same thing. What you'll loose going stiffer is playfullness.
> 
> Well anyway, you're set on a Cobra, fine. That weight difference you were feeling was the bindings for sure. When Flux wants to make a light binding, they succeed. And they are stupid light. And compare to your GT's they might be close to a full pound lighter.
> 
> The boards I want with me at Bear would be a Flow Verve, Nitro Swindle, Signal Park or if were talking 2014 the Freedom Machine, Salomon Villain, 2014 Nitro Pyro, Bataleon Disaster, Yes Jackpot, or a Echelon Rounds.


I've read a lot about these boards, I'm just curious as to why the Rocknrolla wouldn't be your choice for Bear? If it's a rad board, what sort of resort would it be good for? Is it too loose?

I'm waiting on Salomon. My buddy's buddy is a Salomon rep. He just scored a 2014 board and binding from the guy for $200 but forgot to text me when he has his "yard sale."

Just looking for something that is super playful, doesn't even need to hold that great of an edge (who needs that at Bear)


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## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

jdang307 said:


> I've read a lot about these boards, I'm just curious as to why the Rocknrolla wouldn't be your choice for Bear?


Cause all the SoCal hipsters will make fun of you for riding a "skier brand snowboard"? Nah I just forgot to relist it.


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## jdang307 (Feb 6, 2011)

Nivek said:


> Cause all the SoCal hipsters will make fun of you for riding a "skier brand snowboard"? Nah I just forgot to relist it.


Oh haha.

Fuck the hipsters. I've never seen anyone comment on anyone's board out here, except once, one guy gave me props for riding a Technine board. And I didn't even know what was up with Technine or their image. It was my first board bought on sale the night before I left to CO for my first real time riding. I got the board and binding for $150 so fuck it :yahoo:

I'm really enticed by this board now, plus its MSRP is cheap as well. Seeing as we plan on starting a family this year, I might be tied to the SoCal resorts for a season (fingers crossed we can do a few weekends in Mammoth)


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