# Need some help with the basics



## Guest (Dec 16, 2009)

Hi guys, I'm a begginner snowboarder and I've been boarding since last year. However, I'm still having trouble with the basic J turn. I checked out the video sticky by Snowolf and the thread titled "struggling with toeside turns" and it was helpful. I feel like I have a pretty good grasp of the heel side. However, I still can not complete a basic toe side J turn, let alone turning toeside going down a hill. When I usually ride, I do a complete switch whenever I need to turn to the current direction my toeside is.

For example, I'll be riding the heel side edge goofy and therefore be going in that direction but then I'll eventually need to turn the other way or else I'll run into trees. So instead of just turning toeside, I completely switch my board around (and therefore slow myself in the process, which is also why I do this switching thing because I can't carve to control my speed) and start riding heel side regular. I know this is very poor technique, but I can't complete a toeside turn without falling.

My board brand is Nidecker. I'm not sure of the model, but on the board it says "The Smoke" if that's it :dunno:. If not, I'm not sure how to tell what it is. I heard that in order to check to see if the edge on your board is ok or not is to push it against the snow and see if snow goes up onto your board. According to the video, if it does this your edge isn't good. My board does this, is this something I should be worried about or is the video wrong? The video is an expertvillage video on youtube, which I have learned is not always a credible source for information. 

When I attempt a toeside turn, I try to push the shins against the tongue of my boots which I read about on these forums. However, when I do that I either don't do it well enough and catch an edge and then fall or lose control and then fall. Something else that tends to happen when I attempt a toeside turn is that I fall forward.

I know I can do this, I just need a little push to get me going in the right direction. I know it won't neccessarily be easy or quick, I just want to get past this roadblock so I can get better .

Edit: What this guy does in this video from 1:22 to 1:23YouTube - Advanced Snowboarding Tips : How to Switch Feet while Snowboarding is what I do when I need to switch directions. Also, my bindings are currently set goofy. My board is 162 in length and I am 16 and about 140 pounds.


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## TomNZ (Aug 10, 2009)

> So instead of just turning toeside, I completely switch my board around (and therefore slow myself in the process, which is also why I do this switching thing because I can't carve to control my speed) and start riding heel side regular.


What you're describing is the "falling leaf" technique, which is a good way for beginner boarders to build confidence and get a bit of speed up - however you are correct that it is poor technique, and you should be trying to move away from it as soon as you feel ready.

Just some basic tips for initiating/making a toeside turn:

When you feel like you're ready to make the turn, as you're traversing on your heel at a decent speed, shift your weight to your front foot to initiate the turn. This will naturally make the board start to face downhill.
*Gradually* shift your weight from your heels to your toes. Key word being gradually. You want your weight to be roughly neutral over the center of the board when the board is facing straight down the fall line (downhill). Once it reaches that point, then gradually lean onto your toes. If you rush it, you'll catch an edge and eat snow. A lot of beginners panic and try to "stomp" the turn halfway, and it just doesn't work. Stay calm and make it smooth.
At the same time "push" your hips forward as you complete the turn so that your body stays on the uphill side of the board. It should almost feel like you're thrusting at the ski bunny up the hill from you. Gently of course .
You *will* speed up. Be ready for it, and be sure that you don't lean onto your back foot to try to slow down. This instinctual reaction is what your body naturally wants to do when it feels the increase in speed. However, it will achieve the opposite of what you are trying to do, and cause your body to be off balance, cause you to speed up, and ultimately end in you eating snow. You have to force yourself to ignore what your body is telling you to do, and keep your weight on your front foot.

It's all about shifting your weight, embracing the speed, and keeping it smooth. Hope that helps!



> My board brand is Nidecker. I'm not sure of the model, but on the board it says "The Smoke" if that's it . If not, I'm not sure how to tell what it is. I heard that in order to check to see if the edge on your board is ok or not is to push it against the snow and see if snow goes up onto your board. According to the video, if it does this your edge isn't good. My board does this, is this something I should be worried about or is the video wrong? The video is an expertvillage video on youtube, which I have learned is not always a credible source for information.


I wouldn't worry about this at all :laugh:


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## Guest (Dec 17, 2009)

without seeing you ride it's hard to say what's going on but it strikes me that you may simply be placing too much weight on your front leg once you are into the turn.

this is causing your board to pivot around your front foot too far so that the tail of your board starts downhill and you're riding switch against your will.

try practicing a more balanced stance - weight more evenly distributed between your front and back foot. as snowolf said, try initiating the turn using only torsional flex to turn the board then "_as the turn becomes established, follow through with the rear foot to ride the edge through the turn._"

have you considered taking a lesson?

alasdair


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## Guest (Dec 18, 2009)

So much great advice, thanks to all three of you . I'm going again this Sunday, I'll let you know how things go. I won't be there for as long as I would like but I'll try and get as much practice in as I can. 

Just a quick question on this "start by twisting the front of the board with the front foo so that the toe edge engages the snow,". Does this mean I am begginning to get up on the edge of my board or I'm just simply moving the board into a different position without getting up on the edge? It seems whenever I am not either transitioning to ride on an edge or am riding on an edge anything more then a bit of board movement side to side will cause me to hit an edge on the slope and fall.

As for my board, I agree it is a long board for me. Next time I get the chance I'll try my little brother's board which is a 153 or something like that. I won't be able to try that for another week or so, so I'll have to wait on letting you guys know about that. If it makes a difference, I am about 5 feet 11 inches tall which I forgot to include in my first post

As for lessons, I did try them last year and I did learn a bit but he really didn't teach us much about turning. He told us a few basic obvious things and had us all try them and that was it as far as I can remember. Perhaps I'll try them again sometime this year.

Thanks again for all of your guy's help, I definitely have things in mind I can work on this next trip .


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## DiscoStu (Jul 2, 2009)

Tw123 said:


> As for lessons, I did try them last year and I did learn a bit but he really didn't teach us much about turning. He told us a few basic obvious things and had us all try them and that was it as far as I can remember.


What the hell? Worst lesson ever? I hear turning is a fairly integral part of the snowboarding experience


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## dharmashred (Apr 16, 2009)

Just wanted to drop in and send some positive energy your way! I'm the OP of the "Struggling with toeside" post. I sideslipped for quite a while, and taught myself in the beginning, how to link turns...but they were bad...I got hurt "early and often". It wasn't until I reached out on this forum that everything made sense. Read the posts thoroughly, and just watch and rewatch those videos Snowolf has up. Print the info out and just read it, try practicing without your board, just hanging around at home. Close your eyes and envision the turn as it should be. Take another lesson as well, a qualified instructor is the best person to explain the body mechanisms to you in a way that will allow you to progress. You'll get it, and when you do will be the most wonderful feeling in the world!...It took me a while to start to get it down, but I had some really bad habits and I am still working on them and I am super grateful to Snowolf and all the vets here for their great advice and encouragement. 

As far as the ankle flexion goes, I've been working on it for so long and last weekend it clicked. I finally figured out that it doesn't take much to engage the turn, a simple flex of the ankle in your front foot and the other will follow. Just make sure no one tries to get you to lead with your shoulder, that will only hinder your progress (I know!!!)

Best wishes and positive energy, you'll get there! We all will!


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## Guest (Dec 30, 2009)

Hey guys, I went boarding again yesterday and I'd like to update you all with my progress (and a few new problems ). I tried the things you guys told me and I eventually picked it up and I not only learned how to do toeside turns but by the middle of the day I was linking turns as well . However, I did take some pretty big biffs. One of those times was when I was going rather fast on a half bowl shaped hill, tried to initiate a toeside turn, and ended up falling forward somehow and skidding backwards down the hill. I couldn't tell you how happened exactly, I'm thinking improper form as I'm still a little shaky and unconfident in my toeside turns. Also, every single time I tried to do a toeside turn on ice I fell. 

One question I had was what is your backhand supposed to be doing? I noticed I was moving mine around a bit on my toeside turns. Also, when I do my toeside turns it kinda feels like I'm standing on my tip toes. Is this what it's supposed to feel like? When I do my toeside turns, some of my back ends up facing down the hill, especially when I'm trying to slow myself down a lot, and sometimes it makes me feel like I'm gonna fall (specifically when I'm going fast). What are the staples of form when it comes to toeside turns?

Another thing, sometimes when I would I would be transitioning from my heelside edge to my toeside edge (or vice versa) I would catch a random edge in between and fall, especially trying to go back to heel side after a big toeside turn. Am I just not waiting for my board to straigten out enough before I go into the next turn? Also, the sharpest s turns I'm capable of seem to be very wide compared to other peoples. How do you link turns sharply (specifically doing sharp toeside edge turns)?

By the middle of the trip I was feeling great about my toeside turns and then I started to fall over and over and over and lost my confidence. By the end of the trip I felt going into each toeside turn that I was going to fall and really scared to do one, especially at high speeds.

Thanks Dharmashred, it really does feel great to finally be able to have gotten past this obstacle . Everybody's help has made it so much easier and I'm looking forward to progressing even further


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## v-verb (Feb 1, 2009)

TomNZ said:


> What you're describing is the "falling leaf" technique, which is a good way for beginner boarders to build confidence and get a bit of speed up - however you are correct that it is poor technique, and you should be trying to move away from it as soon as you feel ready.
> 
> Just some basic tips for initiating/making a toeside turn:
> 
> ...




WOW! You've summarized my experience perfectly. I have to battle that leaning back every time.. When I succeed, riding is relatively easy. When I lean back - I fall


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