# Help - Boot problem hindering ankle flex



## BurtonAvenger (Aug 14, 2007)

You're used to a mushy ass boot that's all. When you drive into it you're not used to actually having to engage it. It's like driving a standard transmission car. If it has a mushy clutch you have to push it all the way to floor, if you have a stage 2 clutch you slam it real quick and it engages and you shift faster. That's it. Basically take how you over exaggerate all your movements in a mushy boot and throw that out the window it's going to be more powerful and engage quicker as you go from toe to hell.


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## Anais (Aug 14, 2016)

Sounds cool, I suspected that.

But how do I cope it as I find myself unable to bend low - reduced ankle flex seems to affect knee flex too, I don't know why, but that's what I am experiencing. Somehow I couldn't engage the edge, where I used to do it with smoothness and ease. eg. lost angulation, but relying on inclination a great deal => too straight bodied, losing stability.


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## Snowdaddy (Feb 2, 2018)

Anais said:


> Sounds cool, I suspected that.
> 
> But how do I cope it as I find myself unable to bend low - reduced ankle flex seems to affect knee flex too, I don't know why, but that's what I am experiencing. Somehow I couldn't engage the edge, where I used to do it with smoothness and ease. eg. lost angulation, but relying on inclination a great deal => too straight bodied, losing stability.


If you're standing on a flat surface, yes it does affect knee flex. Standing on the floor it's physically impossible to only flex your knees. In a sliding turn it's probably much easier and forgiving to have a really soft boot.

Some people will tell you to push your hips when turning, but just for an illustration you could try bending your knees and pushing them towards your toe side and down into the ground. You will bend your knees and the board will get up on edge even if you don't flex your ankles. In the heel side carve you will be bending a lot in the waist, even if the flex should start from the knees. So riding stiffer boots is just a bit different and less forgiving than what you're used to.


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

Anais said:


> Sounds cool, I suspected that.
> 
> But how do I cope it as I find myself unable to bend low - reduced ankle flex seems to affect knee flex too, I don't know why, but that's what I am experiencing. Somehow I couldn't engage the edge, where I used to do it with smoothness and ease. eg. lost angulation, but relying on inclination a great deal => too straight bodied, losing stability.


As BA said. You're used to the old boot. Your balance, muscle coordination is used to the motion freedom of the old one.

You simply have to get used to this new motion range/responsiveness. The boot reacts quicker/more directly, i.e. you have to fine tune _your_ motions as well. How? By riding. Repetition, rinse, repeat. Your body slowly will get used to the mini adjustments which are required rather than the formerly big moves. Same as with knee flexion. Stiffer boots require a different (more precise) weight distribution and alignment of upper body. While soft boots for example alow to lean fwd with upper body with kink in hip w/o any force being put on edge (es boot flexes away, doesn't transmit), you cannot do the same position in stiff boots without edge is already engaged; your former, used position with no effect now already has an effect. 

Do a carpet test . You'll see, that different muscles are used. Bend knees allowing big ankle flex. Feel how the lower thigh is working? You can cheat in this position and ride real low by sticking ur butt out and still keep balance by having ur hip bent and head infront the imaginary front edge. A bad position as it doesn't give you quick reaction options. Ur just low, but not "springloaded" nor centered, and any bump puts you off balance. Now try to bend knees without that much ankle flex, and keep upper body upright, well centered (good position)... see how now the upper thigh muscle has to work? 

You will get used to bending knees in this more centered, controlled position, no worries. But you need to first build up the muscles and balance.


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## Anais (Aug 14, 2016)

Interesting... thank you, I'll give it a try see if that helps.

Very strange that bending knees on heel edge isn't a problem (I don't think I use my ankles that much on heel edge anyway), toe edge just sucks when loosing ankle flex.
With the new boots, heel edge is actually a bit if not much better.
Toe edge is a constant struggle. When I try to engage the edge, I instantly felt the lost of flexion around ankle, then suddenly my knees seems to be stiff and unable to bend as much as I used to, then only my upper body is bending over which is horrible. So had to quickly give up the commitment of engaging the toe edge, not fun...


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## Anais (Aug 14, 2016)

:laugh2:Hey Neni! How good to see you! And thanks for your help and valuable advice as always.

I think it's making sense, I do have false sense of being low/flexed stance in general, I actually prefer to ride low (probably because the terrain and condition I am riding, various, icy, bit steep), unless on pretty flat groomers. But in the scarce few of my riding videos, I do find my body position a bit less than what I expected. Low, yes, but butt and head doesn't seem to align very well.

Maybe I shouldn't be riding hard (or harder) boots on various somewhat bumpy terrain? To do what you're saying, which I can achieve occasionally, I am often at a better condition, wide, flatter runs, hardly many people. Where the speed built up and space I can prepare myself into the edge change helps with that sort of balance. But narrow steeper, more nerd ratio (as what Ryan introduced lol~~ more people on the slope higher the nerd ration=>bad) runs, I simply don't find myself having enough material to work on and pull that off.

But if I am not low enough with help of all flex, ankle, knee, and hips, in above terrain mentioned, then I can't get low enough to maintain that balance and flexibility needed.

Is this more of a skill issue. Or product design and feature?

Are hard boots actually designed better for groomed/smoother runs for riding speed and lay the carves down hard. But not so good for challenging various terrain, that you have to be flexible, adaptive, and take on changes and few bumps and sudden nerd popping up with ease like nothing happened?


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## Snowdaddy (Feb 2, 2018)

Anais said:


> Are hard boots actually designed better for groomed/smoother runs for riding speed and lay the carves down hard. But not so good for challenging various terrain, that you have to be flexible, adaptive, and take on changes and few bumps and sudden nerd popping up with ease like nothing happened?


Freeride and carving boots are harder than freestyle/park boots.

I like Snowboard Addiction because I think they have very good and illustrative clips:

https://snowboardaddiction.com/blogs/riding/round-smooth-turns

https://snowboardaddiction.com/blogs/riding/weight-over-the-top-of-your-board

https://snowboardaddiction.com/blogs/riding/11018837-how-to-carve-on-a-snowboard


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## Anais (Aug 14, 2016)

Snowdaddy said:


> Freeride and carving boots are harder than freestyle/park boots.
> 
> I like Snowboard Addiction because I think they have very good and illustrative clips


hmm~~ I like them too. 

Carving for sure... but freeride, in some and many aspects I think it's using quite a lot of freestyle techniques, especially in challenging terrain and moguls. That you use dolphin turn to help turn around moguls which is a neat and stylish flatland tricks. Then pop, getting reasonable straight airs, 180, ollie, quick manoeuvre to get around tight and steep place, with sudden changes (eg, people, snow condition etc.). 
Not all of us riding in big mountains and pow. And I just hardly ever come across the luxurious good carving condition at local resort (NZ, North Island, Volcano, rock, ice, choppy & bumpy snow condition and sketchy terrain, scarce snow coverage and heavy crowd is a custom, especially for weekend warriors), I find myself in the free riding conditions I described above, so just wondering, what's the major issue with my current problem experienced. Is it more about skill not right, or is it more about wrong equipment used for the purpose. Are hard boots not really designed for that, I probably should stay with soft boots?


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## Snowdaddy (Feb 2, 2018)

Anais said:


> hmm~~ I like them too.
> 
> Carving for sure... but freeride, in some and many aspects I think it's using quite a lot of freestyle techniques, especially in challenging terrain and moguls. That you use penguin turn to help turn around moguls which is a neat and stylish flatland tricks. Then pop, getting reasonable straight airs, 180, ollie, quick manoeuvre to get around tight and steep place, with sudden changes (eg, people, snow condition etc.).
> Not all of us riding in big mountains and pow. And I just hardly ever come across the luxurious good carving condition at local resort (NZ, North Island, Volcano, rock, ice, choppy & bumpy snow condition and sketchy terrain, scarce snow coverage and heavy crowd is a custom, especially for weekend warriors), I find myself in the free riding conditions I described above, so just wondering, what's the major issue with my current problem experienced. Is it more about skill not right, or is it more about wrong equipment used for the purpose. Are hard boots not really designed for that, I probably should stay with soft boots?


I think that it's a preference about how you like to ride probably. I would rate myself as an intermediate rider and I weight 95 kg. I'm riding Burton Genesis X and Photon Boas on both my boards. I'm used to ski boots so I don't find that stiff at all. The rental boots I've tried have been an absolute mess for me even if it was probably good to have a very forgiving boot in the beginning.

As a comparison: I have two very different boards. One is very playful and soft. The other one is stiffer and springy. Riding both boards in choppy resort snow with the same bindings and boots are very different. The stiffer and lighter board is a chore to ride in certain conditions. 

I mean... there's no reason to have a stiff boots just because you are getting more experienced at riding. It should probably matter more what kind of riding you are into. If you're treating the mountain as a park, maybe stiff boots aren't for you. However, falling over in the turns because of a stiffer boots sounds like something else and more a thing about technique.

If I were you I'd go back to basics for a day or two and just focus on getting the turns right, then decide if you need different boots. What kind of board and bindings are you riding? I looked up your boots and they read as all mountain medium flex. I personally don't feel competent enough to say it has to be one way or the other, but it stands to reason that a softer boot could fit your riding style better. My personal guess would be that a stiffer boot would support you better and make you less exhausted in your feet and that it's better to have a stiff boot on a soft board than the other way around.


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

Anais said:


> :
> 
> Is this more of a skill issue. Or product design and feature?
> 
> Are hard boots actually designed better for groomed/smoother runs for riding speed and lay the carves down hard. But not so good for challenging various terrain, that you have to be flexible, adaptive, and take on changes and few bumps and sudden nerd popping up with ease like nothing happened?


Definitely a skill/getting use to something new issue. And on contrary. In challenging terrain, stiff responsive boots are a big advantage, becaus they are (ta-daa) more responsive . Flexibility is wobbly, less precise.

I much prefer a responsive stiff boot in challenging terrain which offers response and precision; in fact, I ride with very stiff boots in whatever conditions; low, knee flexed. I'm sure, your boot would seem quite soft to me and I would have issues riding with them as they're not what I am used to; I'd be complaining about the lack of response, that mini adustments I'm used to don't get through the wobbly flexible boot, and would have to adapt and exaggerate all movements to get the same result. As BA said... you just need to get used to this new precision, and work on your body alingnment. Stiffer, more responsive equipment is less forgiving to wrong alignment, because it is... more responsive .

Btw: since the lower ankle flex seems to be disturbing you atm, just don't tighten the upper part of your boots as tight atm. A less tight bootleg will give you more flex, so you can adapt step by step.


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## Anais (Aug 14, 2016)

Snowdaddy said:


> It should probably matter more what kind of riding you are into. If you're treating the mountain as a park, maybe stiff boots aren't for you. However, falling over in the turns because of a stiffer boots sounds like something else and more a thing about technique.


Treating the mountain as a park, sounds like the way to go. Well, maybe more like the back garden. 
I was initially into butter/flatland tricks, but never cared much of speed and big airs and doing crazy jumps and flips, rails, bars etc.. To me it's more of control, style, smoothness and making it feel easy and relaxed. However, due to local terrain, and limitation of personal physical fitness etc. and shift of interest, I find myself leaning more towards all mountain free ride & carving (at least wish to carve properly) these days. But I do find all techniques and styles are interrelated, they compensate each other. eg. you can't do well in half pipes or jumps if you don't have solid carving locked in. And if you want to be good at freeride, you'd better have some of the freestyle tricks locked in, eg. ollie, pop, straight air, 180, and some other butter tricks. They are a great help of free ride in various terrain.



> If I were you I'd go back to basics for a day or two and just focus on getting the turns right, then decide if you need different boots.


That's definitely solid advice I am taking on board an will try. 




> What kind of board and bindings are you riding? I looked up your boots and they read as all mountain medium flex.


I am 62kg, riding Rossignol Diva 152cm (the older version of directional twin rather than true twin), bindings used Burton Lexa M, with feet size of 23.5cm mono.


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## Anais (Aug 14, 2016)

neni said:


> Definitely a skill/getting use to something new issue.


So how do you manage stiff boots then? Is there a way of regaining that lost ankle flex, or just forget about it, as one shouldn't be using ankle flex much anyway? 
The problem for me is, the extra responsiveness gained doesn't compare to the amount of lost ankle flex, narrow range of movement possible => less degree of fine tuning. For example, on my older softer boots, I might be able to flex in the range of 1 to 10, now on new boots, I can only do 1-4. Even if the new boots are more responsive, I am loosing a big range of 5-10. Maybe new boots could have managed all 10 within 6, but well, still, if I can only get to 4, then I am loosing the other 2. So that being more responsive is still causing me to loose the full range of power and control I used to have.

Using the analogy of car breaks, stiffer boots better breaks, you only need to give a little tap where you used to push it down. But still, there are time you want to slam the break right? What if your new better sports car's break just can't be pushed down further from that little tap? 

Problem for me is, I often ride low unless if the terrain is easy and flat. In many situations if I can't get as low as I need, I am not as stable as I could be. And dropping knees alone, certainly doesn't feel as good as using ankle flex to assist it. Because with ankle flexed a little more, I am closer to the snow from further down, then the knee bend itself doesn't feel as sudden and harsh, overall it feels much smoother. With the lost of ankle flex, just trying to drop the knee hard is a bit jerky. Besides I actually can't flex my knee as much as I could have when ankle flex been reduced a lot.

Responsive => less forgiving, which I get, and I am not worried about, as it's clearly something one can work on and try to adapt. But now it's means more of loosing the range of motion, that worries me quite a lot. 

Although you'd prefer the responsiveness and fine tuning of the stiff boots, but surely there are situations you'd need the full range of motion? Do you find it limiting, eg. restricted ankle flex etc.? How do you manage it?



> since the lower ankle flex seems to be disturbing you atm, just don't tighten the upper part of your boots as tight atm. A less tight bootleg will give you more flex, so you can adapt step by step.


sigh~~ already tried that, it helped a little but not much. And I couldn't loose it any more without risking twisting my ankles I think. :embarrased1:
If it's not the wrong equipment, then I suppose I am just trying to figure out how should I approach it, change the way of using, to finally be able to use it properly and for the purpose.


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

Anais said:


> So how do you manage stiff boots then? Is there a way of regaining that lost ankle flex, or just forget about it, as one shouldn't be using ankle flex much anyway?


Yeah, forget about it . One doesn't _need_ a big range of ankle flex to ride. Stiffer boots are _meant_ to reduce ankle flex. That's their inherent part of being more respondive. Ankle flex leades to pressure transfer on board only via toes; a slow force with lot of loss through ankle and toes; with stiff boots, this pressure force is replaced by the pressure the boot puts on the board via your shin and its bootleg/sole, which is quicker, more direct and thus more powerful. 



> For example, on my older softer boots, I might be able to flex in the range of 1 to 10, now on new boots, I can only do 1-4. Even if the new boots are more responsive, I am loosing a big range of 5-10. Maybe new boots could have managed all 10 within 6, but well, still, if I can only get to 4, then I am loosing the other 2. So that being more responsive is still causing me to loose the full range of power and control I used to have.


Wrong. More ankle flex = less power and control. See above. You were interested into buying a Jones Flagship or oversized Rossi XV last season, right? Your feet would fall off in pain after a day if they had to endure all that pressure getting those stiff aggressive boards on edge in a mushy boot, if you could at all get them on edge... I couldn't. My feet would kill me after half an hour... 



> Although you'd prefer the responsiveness and fine tuning of the stiff boots, but surely there are situations you'd need the full range of motion? Do you find it limiting, eg. restricted ankle flex etc.? How do you manage it?


I don't do park n jib stuff, where ankle flex seems to be an advantage, so no, never found stiff boots limiting. (Your boot isn't "stiff", btw.). Any carving, riding moguls, riding traverses, ice, charging groomers with high nerd ratio a.s.o. is easier with stiffer boots. Easier on feet, quicker, more precise.

I only ever had one situation where I felt that I have too little ankle flex: when doing jumps in unmodified alpine touring boots (hard plastic shell skiboot-like boots). That hurt as hell on the shins :laugh:. So a _certain_ degree of ankle flex is needed for landings, sure. But what you mention, this 1-10 scale? My boots probably have a 3 on that scale, and this is awesome, because it means that my feet are way less tired in the evening since I can put loads of force on front edge via the shin-boot-sole instead of via mushy ankle-toe route; gives me very quick edge to edge turning, and the ability to have the toes free to do fine tuning, while still have way enough flex to dampen landings. 




> Problem for me is, I often ride low unless if the terrain is easy and flat. In many situations if I can't get as low as I need, I am not as stable as I could be.


I - and thousands of other riders with stiff boots - have no problem riding low... it's not the boot which is hampering the ability to ride low... it's you. 

You have two options  either get used to the new feel, and learn to ride with them adjusting your body alignment, use your shins, or just get back to very soft boots again (the boot you selected isn't even stiff... medium flex womens boots are quite soft and do flex well; but maybe it just isn't for you. But then do your feet a favour and stop looking at aggressive freeride boards )


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## Snowdaddy (Feb 2, 2018)

Anais said:


> Treating the mountain as a park, sounds like the way to go. Well, maybe more like the back garden.
> I was initially into butter/flatland tricks, but never cared much of speed and big airs and doing crazy jumps and flips, rails, bars etc.. *To me it's more of control, style, smoothness and making it feel easy and relaxed. *However, due to local terrain, and limitation of personal physical fitness etc. and shift of interest, I find myself leaning more towards all mountain free ride & carving (at least wish to carve properly) these days. But I do find all techniques and styles are interrelated, they compensate each other. eg. you can't do well in half pipes or jumps if you don't have solid carving locked in. And if you want to be good at freeride, you'd better have some of the freestyle tricks locked in, eg. ollie, pop, straight air, 180, and some other butter tricks. They are a great help of free ride in various terrain.


They way you are talking about your riding makes me think you are quite a bit above my level in at least some ways. But when you are talking about control and smoothness I'm thinking that softer boots makes the ride more smooth and "surfy". If you are in a highspeed carve, or being tossed around in choppy snow, a softer boot might mean less control.

If you think about it, your ankles aren't really that strong and handling a lot of force (like what you experience in turning) is better done with better leverage like your lower legs in a stiffer boot.



Anais said:


> So how do you manage stiff boots then? Is there a way of regaining that lost ankle flex, or just forget about it, as one shouldn't be using ankle flex much anyway?
> The problem for me is, the extra responsiveness gained doesn't compare to the amount of lost ankle flex, narrow range of movement possible => less degree of fine tuning. For example, on my older softer boots, I might be able to flex in the range of 1 to 10, now on new boots, I can only do 1-4. Even if the new boots are more responsive, I am loosing a big range of 5-10. Maybe new boots could have managed all 10 within 6, but well, still, if I can only get to 4, then I am loosing the other 2. So that being more responsive is still causing me to loose the full range of power and control I used to have.
> 
> Using the analogy of car breaks, stiffer boots better breaks, you only need to give a little tap where you used to push it down. But still, there are time you want to slam the break right? What if your new better sports car's break just can't be pushed down further from that little tap?
> ...


So, I'm just thinking here... how much difference does that extra flex give you in lower leg angles when trying to squat down or riding low. Obviously there's going to be a difference and some might just be that you have more response and that the stiffer boot makes you ride more on edge. If you want to get more into carving a stiffer boot is going to be good. And like neni said, a stiffer boot is something you will benefit from if you want to ride stiffer boards.

Maybe check forward lean on your bindings and angles.


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## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

neni said:


> Definitely a skill/getting use to something new issue. And on contrary. In challenging terrain, stiff responsive boots are a big advantage, becaus they are (ta-daa) more responsive . Flexibility is wobbly, less precise.
> 
> I much prefer a responsive stiff boot in challenging terrain which offers response and precision; in fact, I ride with very stiff boots in whatever conditions; low, knee flexed. I'm sure, your boot would seem quite soft to me and I would have issues riding with them as they're not what I am used to; I'd be complaining about the lack of response, that mini adustments I'm used to don't get through the wobbly flexible boot, and would have to adapt and exaggerate all movements to get the same result. As BA said... you just need to get used to this new precision, and work on your body alingnment. Stiffer, more responsive equipment is less forgiving to wrong alignment, because it is... more responsive .
> *
> Btw: since the lower ankle flex seems to be disturbing you atm, just don't tighten the upper part of your boots as tight atm. A less tight bootleg will give you more flex, so you can adapt step by step.*


three things.

1 Bolded above...loosen up yer cuff a tad for more flex

2 widen yer stance a tad (presuming ur duck) to get/squat lower

3 suck up yer knees when riding/flying over the chop

and what others sayz

as for moi, last year changed to AT boots for more stiffness for my daily driver (Atomic Backland non-carbon). Love the stiffiness due to significantly improved response, infact all mtn freeride has improved dramatically, more efficient and a breeze riding over chop, crust and crud.


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## Anais (Aug 14, 2016)

neni said:


> Yeah, forget about it . One doesn't _need_ a big range of ankle flex to ride. Stiffer boots are _meant_ to reduce ankle flex. That's their inherent part of being more respondive. Ankle flex leades to pressure transfer on board only via toes; a slow force with lot of loss through ankle and toes; with stiff boots, this pressure force is replaced by the pressure the boot puts on the board via your shin and its bootleg/sole, which is quicker, more direct and thus more powerful.


hmm~~ that might explained my sore feet all the time, and black toe nails starting of this season (I thought that's caused by impact on landing during attempts of learning 180s, which pushed my toe nails into the toe cap of the boots, but maybe not)... :|

heel edge is of no problem, actually felt a bit better. It's just the toe edge, sucks without that range of ankle flex. Now think about it, it may seem that I normally drop a bit lower before tilting onto toe edge. Instead, to tackle this problem, should I think more of initiating by pushing my belly button towards the toe edge with knees reasonably bend, and don't think about ankle flex at all, just let it be? 




> You were interested into buying a Jones Flagship last season, right? Your feet would fall off in pain after a day if they had to endure all that pressure getting those stiff aggressive boards on edge in a mushy boot, if you could at all get them on edge...


lol~~ you've got good memory. :embarrased1:I know I shouldn't... but I actually ended up with Jones Flagship man's 158cm. NZ, limited stock and high price... woman's are rare to see and cost way over a grand, where there was a real good deal on with that man's board for almost half of the price... just couldn't resist the temptation. sigh~~ 
It's an absolute joy riding it when speed and condition is right, getting more rebound, and feels nice to spring into the next turn by the board itself. But just as you said, only on a perfect day, nice-ish snow, with tiny nerd ratio. Definitely not a daily driver. But have it's moment, won't say I regret the purchase, actually can't wait for that perfect day to take it out for a ride. 




> I - and thousands of other riders with stiff boots - have no problem riding low... it's not the boot which is hampering the ability to ride low... it's you.


With lost of ankle flex, isn't it natural that you won't be able to ride as low as you could? Or is there any technique to compensate that? I can think of on high speed, centripetal force would have helped and made it possible to balance well with increased inclination but reduced angulation around ankle, but honestly can't think how it might be possible at medium and lower speed...



> get used to the new feel, and learn to ride with them adjusting your body alignment, use your shins, or just get back to very soft boots again (the boot you selected isn't even stiff... medium flex womens boots are quite soft and do flex well; but maybe it just isn't for you. But then do your feet a favour and stop looking at aggressive freeride boards )


hmm~~ guess option 1 is the way to go, certainly not saying goodbye to my Jones flagship. That was really fun riding it. 

Question out of curiosity, what stiff boots do you ride? I don't seem to be able to even find any stiff woman's boots out there. They are almost all medium, or soft.


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## Anais (Aug 14, 2016)

Snowdaddy said:


> They way you are talking about your riding makes me think you are quite a bit above my level in at least some ways.


Nah, don't think so, I suck, still can't manage solid 180s, and carving is a bit of a guess work more relying on luck than my superb board control in my ideal imagination. lol~~ But toe carve is often solid, heel is hard not yet locked in, early edging and transition part still needs a lot and a lot of work. So you can imaging how desperate it is now loosing that toe carve... sigh~~



> If you think about it, your ankles aren't really that strong and handling a lot of force (like what you experience in turning) is better done with better leverage like your lower legs in a stiffer boot.


I never thought of using the ankles to handle the force, I thought it was helping to drop my stance lower and closer to the snow more smoothly and gradually. But now talking with you guys I start to suspect it was incorrectly handling a large amount of force it shouldn't have... I do have sore feet all the time, I thought that's because I'm unlucky when it comes to find boots and googles, as I have flat and wide Asian feet and low nose bridge. But maybe it has something to do with overusing my ankles... interesting observation, thank you all for pointing that out, will give the change a try to see if it makes some difference.



> Maybe check forward lean on your bindings and angles.


I think it might be OK, I ride with lots forward lean, especially after struggling with heel carves. Angles, +15 -12 as I believe.


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## Anais (Aug 14, 2016)

wrathfuldeity said:


> three things.
> 
> 1 loosen up yer cuff a tad for more flex
> 
> ...


Already tried 1, don't think it helps much, but certainly a little better. Might keep on doing so.

2. yeah, I am duck, but my stance is already quite wide I think... 55cm, for me being 162cm tall...

3. certainly good advice, already taken on board. 

And glad to hear that your new boots are working out for you.


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

Anais said:


> With lost of ankle flex, isn't it natural that you won't be able to ride as low as you could? Or is there any technique to compensate that?


Go back to my first answer and do the carpet test... it's all mentioned there. I can ride as low as you. Bending knees and get low is *not* dependent on ankle flex. It just needs other muscles and alignment if ankles can flex less.
Check your stance width... maybe your stance is too narrow, or too wide? I can get my butt to ground without flexing ankles... :dunno:



> Question out of curiosity, what stiff boots do you ride? I don't seem to be able to even find any stiff woman's boots out there. They are almost all medium, or soft.


DC Mora is my "soft" boot for mocking around on freestyle board; that boot once was medium-stiff, but was so soft after one season, I can'tused it anymore for charging. Too mushy); 32 TM-2 XLT id the everyday boot (by far the stiffest women'sresort boot I found), and 32 Jones MTB the BC boot (which is very stiff, was borderline uncomfortabe the first few days; this one serves as resort boot, too, on trips as I can only pack one boot).


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## smellysell (Oct 29, 2018)

Anais said:


> Instead, to tackle this problem, should I think more of initiating by pushing my belly button towards the toe edge with knees reasonably bend, and don't think about ankle flex at all, just let it be?


I'm far from an expert, so take it for what it's worth, but I ride a variety of stiffness boots, stiffest being Salomon Malamute. I feel like with my stiffer boots, it helps me feel how I'm supposed to be engaging my front edge by pushing my shins/knees towards the snow. One tip I read somewhere along the line that really helps, and seems to be even more important the stiffer of boots you are wearing, is that along with driving your knees, pushing my shoulders and upper body away from the snow. 



Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


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## Anais (Aug 14, 2016)

neni said:


> Bending knees and get low is not dependent on ankle flex. It just needs other muscles and alignment if ankles can flex less.


Cool, thanks neni. :laugh2:
Will definitely take the advice on board, and give them a try.

And interesting to know there are actually stiff boots out there for woman. I almost thought they just don't really exist. lol~~~


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## Anais (Aug 14, 2016)

Thanks, will keep that in mind and think about it next time I am on snow.
I think I kinda of get what you mean, but will have to test out in reality.


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## robotfood99 (Mar 19, 2016)

My gf went through the same issue as you, OP. From some old mushy Salomons (I think Ivys, not sure) that were as about as supportive as Uggs to Kianas. Reading this thread is like rewinding things I said to her to explain the dynamics of boot flex. 

Good news for you - Kianas get soft pretty quickly. I think my gf's pair got sufficiently mushy in less than a month of weekend-only riding, so about 8 days on them. But once they did, the bad news arrived.

Potential bad news - the inner boot lacing harness at the top of the Kiana's inner boot tongue started to bite into her shins as the boots wore in. Gf said the pain was unbearable when leaning toe side. We tried all the tricks we could think of - extra socks, calf sleeves, socks and sleeves, foam pads of varying thickness, shapes, and density, even soccer shin guards. All of these were just stop-gaps because in the end we concluded that the boots just did not match her and she will be getting new boots this coming season. Similar stiffness, just with different/better lacing options. 

For reference, she rides Jones Twin Sister/Now Condas for daily resort riding. Borrows my Instagator when we're on deep stuff. She thinks the Kiana's flex was spot on for this setup, might even go a little stiffer. 

As others have said, you will get used to the stiffness and eventually come to appreciate the added security and leverage stiffer boots give you. Until then, its a matter of micro adjustments to your posture and control.


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