# Snowboarder Awareness



## BurtonAvenger (Aug 14, 2007)

Person in front of you has the right of way. You're at fault here and just so you know there's these little signs posted up around the resort and on the back of your lift ticket talking about the inherent risks of snowsliding.


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## Grizz (Nov 10, 2008)

I'm sorry you and your board were damaged. That sucks.

The only person at fault is you. Downhill rider has the right of way. It doesn't matter what size turn they are making.


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## NoTickets (Jan 16, 2010)

ahh, little did i know. credit that to my lack of snowboarding experience. i'll keep that in mind.

he was a good 20 feet to my right while i was closing in on less than 10 feet. i really would have tried to just fall and eat it if i could've avoided him, but it was too steep and slowing down on ice is well.. yeah. and he really came out of nowhere, as far as forward distance goes, we were nearly side by side when he came blazing in, just a step ahead enough for me to slam into him.

i guess it's kind of hard to describe exactly what happened, because it happened so fast and i panicked. but thanks for letting me know about right of way. i still wish he'd at least glance back or look peripherally being as he was going nearly sideways anyway.


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## NoTickets (Jan 16, 2010)

BurtonAvenger said:


> Person in front of you has the right of way. You're at fault here and just so you know there's these little signs posted up around the resort and on the back of your lift ticket talking about the inherent risks of snowsliding.


and while i appreciate your remark, and that you took time to post a reply to let me know i was in the wrong, i cant help but think that you as an experienced rider wrote that with no small amount of patronizing tone to me, a beginner.


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## Reede (Feb 16, 2009)

always expect a patronising tone from BurtonAvenger, that's just his thing. But yea, right of way rules puts you in the wrong. As annoying as that rule can be when skiiers are doing those giant gay conga lines that consume the entire run theres unfortunately not a lot you can do.

A couple of seasons ago when I was in exactly your position, learning to turn. I was hit and knocked over by no less than 3 skiiers in one day, all of them yelled out before they hit me expecting me to somehow get out of their way, I do not have eyes in the back of my head, you cannot possibly expect someone in my position to avoid you.


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## Surrendermonkey (Jan 14, 2010)

As others have said, no-one here to blame but you. As the uphill rider you have full responsibility for avoiding him, even if he does something unpredictable (this doesn't sound like it though, if he is making a wide turn, expect him to go across the slope rather fast), though I must admit that I've been in a similar situation once or twice, it happens.

Shame about the board though, sounds pretty bad 

A thing I've found handy is to be plan when to overtake people, as the are starting a turn from toeside (only do this when it's clear they are committed to the turn) then pass them with them on your left compared to downhill direction. Same when passing with them on the right, wait for them to initiate a heelside turn.

This means that even if they consciously try to cut you off out of spite, they are going to have a hard time doing so, and it almost certainly can't happen by accident. It does require you to pay more attention to their riding than your own though, and plan speed accordingly. This is of course only relevant if you for some reason have to overtake them fairly close.


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## Guest (Feb 4, 2010)

NoTickets said:


> and while i appreciate your remark, and that you took time to post a reply to let me know i was in the wrong, i cant help but think that you as an experienced rider wrote that with no small amount of patronizing tone to me, a beginner.


it's hard to read something that tells you you are in the wrong without hearing it in a patronising tone. burtonavenger is not famous for his tact but, on this occasion, he's absolutely right and you could just take his words at face value and thank him for the fact that he's helped you become a safer rider.

regards

alasdair


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## stoepstyle (Sep 15, 2008)

alasdairm said:


> burtonavenger is not famous for his tact


Hahah that's putting it lightly 


BA keep on regulating


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## NoTickets (Jan 16, 2010)

gotcha. 

the only reason why i thought / felt that his turn was unpredictable was because, as i stated in the original post, he was doing exactly what i was doing, connecting c turns in a relatively small width (i'd say about 3 feet left, then 3 feet right, and so on and so forth). then i saw him veer about 20 feet to the right in what i thought was a concerted effort to either slow down significantly or stop. i saw him in my peripheral vision, but he wasn't directly ahead of me anymore. i take it he decided to go from connecting small c turns to all of a sudden connecting two really large ones, because after that huge turn to the right, he came back with a huge turn to the left, and we met with a spectacular bang.

i was minding my own speed and direction because i thought i had a clear path since he had (in my mind) moved out of my way and i wasn't in any way trying to overtake him or anything like that. my ability to maneuver away from fallen boarders or people that are taking up slope space isn't at all good, so i always come to a near or complete stop if someone is directly in front of me, or coming my way from a visible standpoint.

but like i said, you guys all make very good points, and bottom line was that i wasn't at any point before the collision ahead of him in any way that would have made me the downhill rider with the right of way. thanks for the feedback guys


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## NoTickets (Jan 16, 2010)

alasdairm said:


> it's hard to read something that tells you you are in the wrong without hearing it in a patronising tone.


this is true. i pride myself in taking criticism, especially if it's constructive as this thread has been. the bit about little signs and the back of my lift ticket was really what i was referring to, not him telling me that the downhill rider had the right of way and i was in the wrong.

but if that's his disposition, then i have no qualms. can't hate on a man for being brutally honest and annoyed with people like me that don't know what they're doing.


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## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

In the spirit of learning and improving...your situation will be a constant issue...yielding the right of way, getting around noobs and awareness of YOUR backside...less ub taken out.

The only real solution is to improve your control, your speed and say your prayers.


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## 209Cali (Jan 11, 2010)

Though I do agree with everyone about the downhill rider having the right of way, I would just like to point out that if I make a wide turn across the run I always at least make a quick glance back to make sure i'm not cutting anyone off. I for sure don't want to be ran over.

To the OP did anything happen to the guy you ran into? was he ok? lols


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## baldylox (Dec 27, 2007)

Indeed... If the other rider were more experienced, he would've been aware of the approaching danger and avoided the collision. It takes two mistakes for a collision. Regardless, the OP was at fault. Live and learn.


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## Jameus (Jan 20, 2010)

I know some folks love to ride with headphones. I'm sure it's very zen like at times just cruising with tunes on in a world all alone  I myself rely on hearing also when cruising to help be more in touch with my surroundings. It's helped me avoid being lamb basted by folks in the past lol. I used to mountain bike to work for years (when it wasn't too cold) and after trying to do it with headphones on I found I was just way to disconnected with traffic. Not a big deal for everyone but just some thoughts


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## burritosandsnow (Nov 22, 2008)

This is one of those things that with time and experience you will learn to anticipate and avoid. First thing you could do in the future is never cruise at roughly the same speed near someone you dont know for exactly this reason. People are unpredictable and this type of crap happens. Technically yes the person below you has the right of way so you either have to slow down and give them room or get to the side and get pass them asap. This is normal on a beginner run where many people are just going where their board takes them or are inexperienced enough that they cant look around them and a constant basis. When Im on a crowded slope I just like to think of it as if I were driving. If I know im going to take a trail off to the left then Ill get on the left hand side of the trail before I get there to avoid the 90 degree turn across all traffic when its time. I think if more folks used that thought process the flow of the mtn would really be so much better. Another example, do you park in the middle of the road? No, so dont stop in the middle of the trail if you need to stop for whatever move off to the side then stop. Its amazing how such simple thought eludes so many on the hill.

Oh one more thing youll find a repair on the Gnu should be pretty easily done and inexpensive froM a good shop due to the non metal wrapped edges


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## KIRKRIDER (Mar 18, 2008)

I see that a lot riding with my kids..and always ride 50 meters behind them covering their 6. Never count on other people's skills to see you, stop in time or avoid you...and as when driving...distance is safety.


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## linvillegorge (Jul 6, 2009)

Jameus said:


> I know some folks love to ride with headphones. I'm sure it's very zen like at times just cruising with tunes on in a world all alone  I myself rely on hearing also when cruising to help be more in touch with my surroundings. It's helped me avoid being lamb basted by folks in the past lol. I used to mountain bike to work for years (when it wasn't too cold) and after trying to do it with headphones on I found I was just way to disconnected with traffic. Not a big deal for everyone but just some thoughts


I don't ride with headphones on the weekends. I love riding with music, but on the weekends, there's just too much traffic on the slopes. When I can make it up during the week or get into some deserted back bowls, I'll throw on the tunes. Other than that, the music is for the lift ride.


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## unsunken (Dec 15, 2009)

What everyone else said about you being the uphill rider and needing to pay attention to all that's going on. Definitely the hardest challenge I had, and occasionally still have -- navigating around people because they can be so unpredictable.

That said, I have to wonder -- if the guy turning across the hill decided to continue his turn up the hill at some velocity, who would be at fault? The 'downhill skier has right of way' argument just doesn't seem to fly in this case.


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## dharmashred (Apr 16, 2009)

on the headphones thing, i didn't use music in the beginning either, but now I have one just in one ear, it's good enough to get pumped but you can still hear what's going on around you. awareness is key.


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## Veccster (Dec 31, 2007)

Yes, music in 2 ears is dangerous. One ear should be OK but you need to increase your awareness.

On the passing thing...as has been said...down hill riders have the right of way. Be very vocal when you are on a busy slope. I always yell "PASSING ON THE LEFT" as I slide by them. It sucks when slower riders are zig zagging the slope because you have to greatly reduce your speed so safely pass. With the short slopes around here, that can ruin the entire run. 

Anticpate turns, pass with grave caution and announce what you are doing to other riders. These things should keep you and your board safe on the slopes.

_The dangers that exist for your board in lift lines in a whole-nother story. _


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## NoTickets (Jan 16, 2010)

209Cali said:


> To the OP did anything happen to the guy you ran into? was he ok? lols


We tumbled for a good while, and when we finally came to a stop, he turned around and said "Hey sorry, did I cut you off?" My chin was hurting, but I said I was fine; wasn't too much blood anyway. He got up and went on his way.

That's the reason I thought it was his fault haha.


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## arsenic0 (Nov 11, 2008)

There are more than a few trails at Meadows that are very very sketchy and require you to pay attention to everyone around you..

For example getting off the MHE chair you can zoom down off the lift to the HRM side of the mountain, only problem is that there is a big giant hill you have to cross to get there...so people come bombing off the MHE chair straight down and hold their speed so they can actually get up over the hill so they dont have to unstrap and walk it..on top of that there is a 3rd trail coming down diagonally at the same spot...

Problem is that the main trail cuts right, and the HRM hill is straight ahead...so what you have usually is a lot of people bombing down..then someone comes from their left trying to go down the main run and gets clipped hard...or someone has to speedcheck really fast and ends up catching an edge and eating it...i see it happen pretty much every time im there at least once 

Its really a piss poor trail design IHMO...im surprised more people dont get hurt...or that they dont enforce the "SLOW" rule in that area stricter..if you want to goto the other side of the mountain you have to carry every bit of speed into it or you have no chance. If snowolf reads this i'd be curious to hear his thoughts on that clusterf&#@ section.


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## G2309 (Oct 22, 2009)

It doesn't sound like he was unpredictable, make a long turn to the righ would normally be followed by the same to the left. was he trying to practice carves? People often apologise even if its not there fault probably felt bad to see you hurt.
I find that even if i keep my turns consitstant and short people still cut me up. I find it worse with skiers, I see it all the time i think it has some hing to do with there ability but skiers seem to stick to the same route regardless of whose in front of them. Only dodging at the last moment if it will definately result in a collision. Boarders just change there route whenever they want.


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## briangig (Nov 6, 2009)

I trust nobody on the mountain. I always look over my shoulders and announce if I am taking someone over. Saved me yesterday, was traversing across to a trail entrance and some idiot kid on skis is too busy looking at his camera 4 feet out in front of him on a folded up tripod heading to the park entrance almost mowed me down...if I didnt stop I know we would have collided. Kind of wish we did so I could watch the video and beat the snot out of him with his tripod.


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## mrpez (Jan 29, 2010)

usually when someone is carving huge turns in front of me, and its gonna be pretty hard to get by, i just slow down and let them get ahead of me


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## Grizz (Nov 10, 2008)

arsenic0 said:


> There are more than a few trails at Meadows that are very very sketchy and require you to pay attention to everyone around you..
> 
> For example getting off the MHE chair you can zoom down off the lift to the HRM side of the mountain, only problem is that there is a big giant hill you have to cross to get there...so people come bombing off the MHE chair straight down and hold their speed so they can actually get up over the hill so they dont have to unstrap and walk it..on top of that there is a 3rd trail coming down diagonally at the same spot...
> 
> ...


Ahh, the cattle crossing.

It's like a 5 way intersection. The Elevator run out, Upper North Canyon, Middle North Canyon, Discovery, and Tillicum all tie into that spot.

The MHM blog stance is, they would prefer you to ride slower, unstrap, and climb the hill if you have to, to get to STAR and HRM, instead of hitting the intersection at speed. This idea creates it's own set of problems. 

On the weekends there is a crew of blue coated people standing behind the signs yelling at people to slow down. Do you really want them to enforce it more? I've never seen anyone hit there but I have witnessed the aftermath. The lower level riders, who can't judge traffic flow, cause the speedchecks.


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## BurtonAvenger (Aug 14, 2007)

NoTickets said:


> and while i appreciate your remark, and that you took time to post a reply to let me know i was in the wrong, i cant help but think that you as an experienced rider wrote that with no small amount of patronizing tone to me, a beginner.


I don't care that you're a beginner or that I'm experienced. Take some fucking responsibility for your actions. If you don't know the skier/rider safety code don't go out on the mountain. Risk is the name of the game and sometimes shit happens. As far as being patronizing yeah I probably am cause I come from the oldschool train of thought where it was put up or shut up and take responsibility for yourself.


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## NoTickets (Jan 16, 2010)

BurtonAvenger said:


> take responsibility for yourself.


i will, thanks again BA.


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## Guest (Feb 9, 2010)

Question for you more experienced riders.. As one of the noobies linking turns and practicing carving, I just stop moving when I hear someone charging down fast behind me to let them pass. It seems safer than trusting them to predict where I'm going when I don't have perfect control, but is that really the best thing to do to prevent being crashed into?


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## Surrendermonkey (Jan 14, 2010)

Depends on the rider behind you. But if we assume that the guys bombing past you are experienced enough for that speed (sadly, not always a assumption that fits!) then the best thing you can do is to be predictable, that means to continue as you were doing before, if I see someone that obviously is doing wide linked turns, and rides like he is a bit inexperienced, I will know when to pass him, what side to pass him on and that I should leave plenty of room for errors on his part.

Keeping in mind that it will always be uphill riders responsibility, it is a pretty good idea to pay a bit attention behind you, the sentence "but I had the right of way!" ain't gonna get you back on the mountain when you get hit full speed the second day of your one yearly week of snowboarding, taking you out for the week.

Of course, this assumes they know what they're doing. If they don't, sadly about all you can do is to pray and hope for the best.


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## S4Shredr (Oct 23, 2009)

Sleepie said:


> Question for you more experienced riders.. As one of the noobies linking turns and practicing carving, I just stop moving when I hear someone charging down fast behind me to let them pass. It seems safer than trusting them to predict where I'm going when I don't have perfect control, but is that really the best thing to do to prevent being crashed into?


Thats a tough call, I never have problems getting around beginners since I slow down in packed areas. The only close calls I've had is when someone is making fairly routine turns and then cuts really hard in one direction. I think your fine, just try to make your riding fairly consistent so that others coming down can tell what your planning on doing (I know this is easier said then donw when you first start), and if you do plan on cutting real hard take a quick look over your shoulder to see if anyone is coming, I still do this whenever I cut hard across the trail.


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## gjsnowboarder (Sep 1, 2009)

Sleepie, nope the deer in the headlights move is not the best of moves to make. The best move is to try to get a line-of-site on the other rider while still being uniform in your line down the mountain. If you stop all of a sudden you decrease the amount of time for reaction the other person has to miss you.


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## Deviant (Dec 22, 2009)

Yeah sudden stops are no good unless you're moving off the main trail when doing so. Eye contact to me is important, when I see a rider or skier look over their shoulder at me when I'm passing it makes me a million times more comfortable with picking a line.


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## NoTickets (Jan 16, 2010)

Sleepie said:


> Question for you more experienced riders.. As one of the noobies linking turns and practicing carving, I just stop moving when I hear someone charging down fast behind me to let them pass. It seems safer than trusting them to predict where I'm going when I don't have perfect control, but is that really the best thing to do to prevent being crashed into?


that's probably your best bet. you could always just say that you're the downhill rider and cry that you had the right of way, but if they crash into you, they crash into you. i'd rather fall and eat it alone than get tangled up with somebody else.


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## unsunken (Dec 15, 2009)

Sleepie said:


> Question for you more experienced riders.. As one of the noobies linking turns and practicing carving, I just stop moving when I hear someone charging down fast behind me to let them pass. It seems safer than trusting them to predict where I'm going when I don't have perfect control, but is that really the best thing to do to prevent being crashed into?


Depends... If you're moving at a pretty good pace and suddenly stop, that's not being predictable. If you're moving fairly slowly and stop, that's fairly predictable. IMHO you should do whatever is least different from what you're already doing. For the most part, unless a boarder catches an edge while riding, they're fairly predictable unlike skiers


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## G2309 (Oct 22, 2009)

Another thing to remember is how loud a snowboard sounds slowing down on ice. I often think people are closer than they are. Its best if people dont panic and try and stop quickly as this often makes you slide in an unpredictable direction. 
Also if your the one up the hill and need to check your speed don't do it too close to the person in front if possible. I think a lot of accidents would be avided if people saw others as fellow riders rater than obstacles to dodge past.


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## earl_je (Oct 20, 2009)

to the OP: instead of yelling "HEY, HEY, HEY" you should have yelled "HEY, ON YOUR LEFT..." or something between those lines, at least that's what I do. People almost always go to the opposite way and gradually slow down when you do this. The way you described it, I could've prediced he was gonna aim straight left considering he just did a hard right anyway (toeside-right, heelside-left for regulars). Even if he wasn't carving, he most likely would have strayed left.

Sleepie: I wouldn't recommend suddenly stopping... slowly work your way opposite from where you can hear the rear coming at you. Do it in a predictable manner so you don't get creamed by anyone else coming into your line.


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## arsenic0 (Nov 11, 2008)

Grizz said:


> Ahh, the cattle crossing.
> 
> It's like a 5 way intersection. The Elevator run out, Upper North Canyon, Middle North Canyon, Discovery, and Tillicum all tie into that spot.
> 
> ...


I rarely go on weekends...ive only ever seen one guy there before now that i think about it i thought he was part of the kids classes that are going up ...but he never moved so your explanation of what he was doing makes more sense.

Already seen two hits and a few aftermaths this season myself 

Honestly i dont know what the solution is, its just a big clusterfuck regardless 

Most of the issues i see come from people trying to cut to HRM from the right side of the trail. So of course people below them that are carving cut right at the bottom to keep going down and they Tbone eachother...


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