# Excessive play in Burton's reflex tech?!?!



## CheeseForSteeze (May 11, 2011)

I have no idea what you are describing. You are going to have to upload a video or at least some pics showing what you mean. I mounted my ReFLEX Malavita Restricteds to several pairs of boards this season and they aren't different than any other pair of bindings except that they can flex longitudinally with the board.


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## rdot84 (Jan 28, 2009)

I think he means that while leaning toeside his heel is coming up out of the binding. Sounds like he either has the wrong size bindings or needs to adjust the straps.


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## 604al (Mar 11, 2008)

I mean I can use my hand to pull the heel hoop upwards and create a gap between the back of the binding and board. Not sure if you can do the same with other bindings. 

I'll try and post pics later.


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## rdot84 (Jan 28, 2009)

Ah. Now i know what you mean. Not sure if my bindings do this or not. Ill try when i get home from work. You sure you dont have a blown insert on your board?


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## 604al (Mar 11, 2008)

no defective inserts... i can do this on two separate boards with different reflex bindings.


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## lonerider (Apr 10, 2009)

CheeseForSteeze said:


> I have no idea what you are describing. You are going to have to upload a video or at least some pics showing what you mean. I mounted my ReFLEX Malavita Restricteds to several pairs of boards this season and they aren't different than any other pair of bindings except that they can flex longitudinally with the board.


Maybe he has the discs mounted wrong (the seam going length-wise down the board instead of across the board with the board flex). That being said, if I twist the board (front leg heelside, back leg toeside) I too can lift the baseplate off the board by the heel a little bit on my reflex CO2's - however that is a motion I would never do while riding so I'm not too worried about it (I might tighten my inserts a little more though).


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## 604al (Mar 11, 2008)

lonerider said:


> Maybe he has the discs mounted wrong (the seam going length-wise down the board instead of across the board with the board flex). That being said, if I twist the board (front leg heelside, back leg toeside) I too can lift the baseplate off the board by the heel a little bit on my reflex CO2's - however that is a motion I would never do while riding so I'm not too worried about it (I might tighten my inserts a little more though).


Discs are mounted the right way... IIRC i don't think you can even mount them to flex the opposite way because of the "teeth" on the disc. 

I'm stil wondering though if you can create this lift with a full baseplate binding.


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## lonerider (Apr 10, 2009)

604al said:


> I'm stil wondering though if you can create this lift with a full baseplate binding.


Yes if the baseplate is really flexy... I was able to do it with both my 2008 and 2009 Burton P1 bindings (although that was part of the reason I sold those bindings for something stiffer). Noticeably my 2009 Rome 390s and 2011 Rome 390 BOSS don't do this (much stiffer aluminum baseplate).


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## rdot84 (Jan 28, 2009)

lonerider said:


> Yes if the baseplate is really flexy... I was able to do it with both my 2008 and 2009 Burton P1 bindings (although that was part of the reason I sold those bindings for something stiffer).


My union forces lift a little if you twist in opposite directions. Like you said i think thats normal unless you have a really stiff baseplate on your bindings. How much lift is the OP talking about?


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## 604al (Mar 11, 2008)

this is with moderate effort as I'm both pulling up and taking the pic


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## ill gotten gain (Dec 25, 2011)

604al said:


> this is with moderate effort as I'm both pulling up and taking the pic


Perhaps you should try to lift it up while wearing your boots and strapped in then have someone take pic.


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## madman91 (Jan 28, 2011)

That's normal with these bindings, have a pair and do the same thing. This is because there is way less of a base plate footprint which in turn allows more board flex and less dead spot.


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## Sick-Pow (May 5, 2008)

That is the point of these....to FLEX, more than you think.


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## djsaad1 (Nov 7, 2008)

so has anyone felt a difference with the reflex bindings?


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## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

djsaad1 said:


> so has anyone felt a difference with the reflex bindings?


You do, after the bindings themselves have broken in. It is noticeable to someone like me, but far from necessary. I feel like I get similar board flex from something like Raidens minidiscs or Flow rockered baseplates.


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## djsaad1 (Nov 7, 2008)

Nivek said:


> You do, after the bindings themselves have broken in. It is noticeable to someone like me, but far from necessary. I feel like I get similar board flex from something like Raidens minidiscs or Flow rockered baseplates.


I might not be experienced enough, but I don't notice anything with flows rockered baseplates. I do love my flow bindings though.


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## binarypie (Nov 29, 2009)

Both of my bindings do this. 

I'm not sure about the disc thing thought. 
I'll check that out this weekend when my gear is near by.


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## 604al (Mar 11, 2008)

binarypie said:


> Both of my bindings do this.
> 
> I'm not sure about the disc thing thought.
> I'll check that out this weekend when my gear is near by.


Are both of your bindings burton reflex's? 

I've just tried my simply test with some Rome's and they don't budge. 

Alot of people here are saying that's what they're supposed to do... I take that to mean reflex bindings in general aren't ideal for medium-stiff to stiff boards.


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## Tycho (Nov 17, 2010)

Burton Diodes are definitely stiff, and they come in Re:flex. I've just ordered a pair and a Yes Big City, so I'll know soon enough if your statement is true or not. Really though, I'm not worried, plenty of people are loving the Diodes as a responsive binding.


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## 604al (Mar 11, 2008)

Let us know how it goes tycho. I know the ankle strap and highback are stiff, but I'm wondering if the baseplate still gives like the cartels and malavitas.


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## binarypie (Nov 29, 2009)

604al said:


> Are both of your bindings burton reflex's?
> 
> I've just tried my simply test with some Rome's and they don't budge.
> 
> Alot of people here are saying that's what they're supposed to do... I take that to mean reflex bindings in general aren't ideal for medium-stiff to stiff boards.


Yes both of mine are Re:Flex


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## jliu (Jan 20, 2009)

With Burton's re:flex tech...does anyone at all worry about the strength of these baseplates and discs? Like I mean the basically cored it all out...and the "mini" disc isnt even a full disc anymore...

Like im seriously considering this year's cartels...but the re:flex baseplates are a bit concerning. Have they changed up the composition of materials to compensate the removal of the centreline?


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## 604al (Mar 11, 2008)

jliu said:


> With Burton's re:flex tech...does anyone at all worry about the strength of these baseplates and discs? Like I mean the basically cored it all out...and the "mini" disc isnt even a full disc anymore...
> 
> Like im seriously considering this year's cartels...but the re:flex baseplates are a bit concerning. Have they changed up the composition of materials to compensate the removal of the centreline?


not that i've heard of, but if it was an issue I'm sure it'd be known already with how much burton sells... 

I can't imagine stressing a baseplate enough to break it though, however i did bend a ride aluminum baseplate a while ago doing a triple-roll bail trying to straightline a black run switch...


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## Snurf (Jan 23, 2012)

I just picked up a set of 2012 Cartel Reflex bindings and the OPs concern with excessive flex worried me a bit. I have a set of 06 Cartels mounted on another board and just did a quick comparison. There was a slight flex in both sets of bindings when pulling up on the heel cup but not so much that I could fit a toonie underneath as shown in the photo. Haven't had any problems or concerns with my old Cartels so I can't see it will be an issue with the new ones.


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## jliu (Jan 20, 2009)

Like if you look at these discs...i dunno...they just dont look durable at all...hah

http://knowledgebase.porterstahoe.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/discs.jpg


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## 604al (Mar 11, 2008)

Snurf said:


> I just picked up a set of 2012 Cartel Reflex bindings and the OPs concern with excessive flex worried me a bit. I have a set of 06 Cartels mounted on another board and just did a quick comparison. There was a slight flex in both sets of bindings when pulling up on the heel cup but not so much that I could fit a toonie underneath as shown in the photo. Haven't had any problems or concerns with my old Cartels so I can't see it will be an issue with the new ones.


Out of curiosity I'm wondering what size your bindings are... I have larges and that'd increase the leverage (by the way I fit 2 toonies in the gap)


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## Snurf (Jan 23, 2012)

Both are mediums


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## Snurf (Jan 23, 2012)

Just a quick update on this thread. I have returned the Cartel refexes. I'm not sure what the problem was but my boots slip in the heelcup when hard carving on my toe edge. Same boots (2 pairs of 32 TM2) that I have worn with my 06 Cartels and 08 Triads. All bindings are mediums. I tried changing the attachment point for the ankle straps (to the upper position from the middle to get more downward and backward pressure on the boot in the heelcup), different degrees of forward lean, different lengths of strap but still the boot would not stay put on a hard toe edge. Frustrating.

The only thing I can think of is that the (excessive in my view) flex of the baseplate changes the angle of the boot in the heel cup just enough so that the boot breaks loose under hard pressure. Whatever it is it certainly pissed me off as the problem became accutely noticeable right at the top of the Stoke chair at Revelstoke so it was a long way back to base. Fortunately I had a set of Triads with me in the car and they worked out fine. I really liked the new Cartel straps but unless I can find a pre-reflex set I'll be looking at something else.


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## 604al (Mar 11, 2008)

Snurf, what do you mean by "boot breaks loose"? You feel your boot move around an inch or so when toeside turning?


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## Sick-Pow (May 5, 2008)

Snurf said:


> Just a quick update on this thread. I have returned the Cartel refexes. I'm not sure what the problem was but my boots slip in the heelcup when hard carving on my toe edge. Same boots (2 pairs of 32 TM2) that I have worn with my 06 Cartels and 08 Triads. All bindings are mediums. I tried changing the attachment point for the ankle straps (to the upper position from the middle to get more downward and backward pressure on the boot in the heelcup), different degrees of forward lean, different lengths of strap but still the boot would not stay put on a hard toe edge. Frustrating.
> 
> The only thing I can think of is that the (excessive in my view) flex of the baseplate changes the angle of the boot in the heel cup just enough so that the boot breaks loose under hard pressure. Whatever it is it certainly pissed me off as the problem became accutely noticeable right at the top of the Stoke chair at Revelstoke so it was a long way back to base. Fortunately I had a set of Triads with me in the car and they worked out fine. I really liked the new Cartel straps but unless I can find a pre-reflex set I'll be looking at something else.


Move the ankle strap DOWN for more heel cup support.

Your boots are to blame, not the bindings.


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## Snurf (Jan 23, 2012)

Sick-Pow said:


> Move the ankle strap DOWN for more heel cup support.
> 
> Your boots are to blame, not the bindings.


I should have been clearer - I've tried both ways. Perhaps my boots are to blame but they fit the other two sets of Burton bindings I have so I sure as hell am not changing them!


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## Sick-Pow (May 5, 2008)

Snurf said:


> I should have been clearer - I've tried both ways. Perhaps my boots are to blame but they fit the other two sets of Burton bindings I have so I sure as hell am not changing them!


Size of MED changed at 2010-2012 for sure, for me. They are bigger than my 08s. I am using Womens's Large for my EST boards as MED are too big and small are too small.

Salomon boots.


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