# Leg burn



## irrballsac (Dec 31, 2011)

The last two years I've been riding at bigger mountains with more powder. Today while at mt baker I rode (according to ski tracks)about 11k vertical, and around 15 miles. While riding my 3rd or 4th run I noticed my back leg was starting to burn.

Over the last month I've been going to the gym about twice a week in preparation because I had the same thing happen to me last year. Could it be something I'm doing wrong as far as technique, or just not having good enough legs for it? I never noticed an issue when I was in crested butte a few years back, or in Breckinridge the following year. Just at vail last year and today. 

Any thoughts would help.


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## thatkidwho (Feb 15, 2014)

Powder can be tough on the legs especially if you are "pushing" it. Are you weight training or endurance training? Good ol jump rope for ten minutes will whip your legs into shape.


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## irrballsac (Dec 31, 2011)

thatkidwho said:


> Powder can be tough on the legs especially if you are "pushing" it. Are you weight training or endurance training? Good ol jump rope for ten minutes will whip your legs into shape.


Strength. God I can't remember the last time I even saw a jump rope. Haha. Can I fashion one from jumper cables?


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## irrballsac (Dec 31, 2011)

They're still burning, so I think I'm taking the day off tomorrow and go adventure around Seattle. Hit whistler on Tuesday with fresh new ones. Says it's supposed to snow then too.


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

No clue if these strength gym trainings also enhace stamina since I'm no gym person...
Additional to regular horseridng n hiking, I look for daily routine strengthening actions e.g. walk instead of taking the bus for all distances up to 40min, skip elevators, and do squats every morning/evening e.g. while brushing teeth, hair drying aso. (to go easy on the knees, I just hold a low squat several minutes). So far this was sufficient to enjoy 15-20k ft days.


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## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

Its probably because ur riding wet and heavy poo...not dry fluff or packed pow or icy. Its actually pretty common that folks get worked riding pnw...moving the heavy and getting bounced...ur absorbing and pushing back alot...plus its perhaps abit more steep and technical riding than ur used to...especially if ur riding trees, chutes and libraries. 11k of vert is pretty easy day...we often avg 20-26k with an hour lunch. Drink lots of water and perhaps use compression sleeves on your calves.


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## mojo maestro (Jan 6, 2009)

Sport Legs.......follow directions........thank me later.........


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## tanscrazydaisy (Mar 11, 2013)

irrballsac said:


> The last two years I've been riding at bigger mountains with more powder. Today while at mt baker I rode (according to ski tracks)about 11k vertical, and around 15 miles. While riding my 3rd or 4th run I noticed my back leg was starting to burn.
> 
> Over the last month I've been going to the gym about twice a week in preparation because I had the same thing happen to me last year. Could it be something I'm doing wrong as far as technique, or just not having good enough legs for it? I never noticed an issue when I was in crested butte a few years back, or in Breckinridge the following year. Just at vail last year and today.
> 
> Any thoughts would help.


Not enough leg endurance and very possibly improper hydration.

Water alone is not enough for hydration. Gatorade & Powerade that is commonly available also sucks.

Skratch Labs has great exercise hydration mix, it's kinda pricey, but it works well for me. This stuff was the "secret drink mix" that pro-cyclists used in secret (from their sponsors).


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## binarypie (Nov 29, 2009)

tanscrazydaisy said:


> Not enough leg endurance and very possibly improper hydration.
> 
> Water alone is not enough for hydration. Gatorade & Powerade that is commonly available also sucks.
> 
> Skratch Labs has great exercise hydration mix, it's kinda pricey, but it works well for me. This stuff was the "secret drink mix" that pro-cyclists used in secret (from their sponsors).


Or just drink more water. Most likely you aren't snowboarding so hard that you need any enhancements.


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## deagol (Mar 26, 2014)

Skratch Labs was setup by Allen Lim.... don't think I would trust him that much

link


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## Ocho (Mar 13, 2011)

neni said:


> do squats every morning/evening e.g. while brushing teeth


Hahaha I do that, too!


Magnesium supplements help (in muscle recovery); get straight mag, not cal/mag as too much calcium inhibits mag absorption whereas additional mag will not affect cal absorption. Most people get more calcium from diet/fortified foods but not enough magnesium. (*neni*: same is true of horses, so if yours is sensitive to grooming, spooky, and routinely tight and sore in work/after work, consider a mag supplement for him. It works wonders.)

As mentioned, hydration is important to flush the lactic acid from the tissues. Something like water with electrolytes is ideal; stay away from the sports drinks jacked with sugars (sucrose, glucose, fructose, etc). Those are essentially non-carbonated sodas. 

Whenever I get (equal) leg burn while riding, I remind myself to ride more with my core. Never ridden PNW conditions however, so Idk if that is possible?


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

Yes, I take mag before or after strenuous work (the never tight/sore but ever spooky horse as well ), helps to prevent cramps.


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## KIRKRIDER (Mar 18, 2008)

Powder board? ;-D


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## tanscrazydaisy (Mar 11, 2013)

binarypie said:


> Or just drink more water. Most likely you aren't snowboarding so hard that you need any enhancements.



Water alone isn't enough. It can make it worse.

You'd be surprised about how much you sweat when you snowboard or ski.


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## irrballsac (Dec 31, 2011)

I doubt hydration is the big issue. I generally drink close to a gallon of water a day, and yesterday I filled my 2.5L reservoir twice and emptied it twice. Most of the burn is in the quads. I'll definitely try the magnesium.

I wanted to ride more, but my legs were just not up to it. I could feel them giving under slushy bumps towards the 3:00 hour ( I had to take an hour nap after a 20 min lunch because I got almost no sleep.) I have been doing a bit more to adjust for riding in deep powder. I noticed I was sinking quite a bit early yesterday so I started leaning back more, and the burn followed shortly after. 

As far as tying all of this into progression I want to learn to do deeper/ steeper. I can ride groomers all day but you put me near moguls, or on a steeper incline with powder and I'm slow.


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## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

how long u going to be around? Friday...I'd try to meet up at bakes


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## irrballsac (Dec 31, 2011)

wrathfuldeity said:


> how long u going to be around? Friday...I'd try to meet up at bakes


Sadly I leave Wednesday AM.


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## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

perhaps next time...ru doing hood...iirc they are open during the week...its about 3 hrs from hood to SeaTac.


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## irrballsac (Dec 31, 2011)

wrathfuldeity said:


> perhaps next time...ru doing hood...iirc they are open during the week...its about 3 hrs from hood to SeaTac.


Tomorrow I'm going the opposite way, and hitting whistler. I'm going to plan another trip to Oregon probably next season. Getting rid of my fire-ant legs are my priority today, that and gloves. The ones I had yesterday were my backup pair since I couldn't find mine and they blew.


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## binarypie (Nov 29, 2009)

tanscrazydaisy said:


> Water alone isn't enough. It can make it worse.
> 
> You'd be surprised about how much you sweat when you snowboard or ski.


Really? How will it make it worse?


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## Ocho (Mar 13, 2011)

neni said:


> helps to prevent cramps.


Yep. Calcium contracts muscle; magnesium releases muscle. I take mag daily; neni, consider keeping your horse on it daily, not just after strenuous work (don't want to derail the thread on why).



irrballsac said:


> I doubt hydration is the big issue. I generally drink close to a gallon of water a day, and yesterday I filled my 2.5L reservoir twice and emptied it twice. Most of the burn is in the quads. I'll definitely try the magnesium.
> 
> I wanted to ride more, but my legs were just not up to it. I could feel them giving under slushy bumps towards the 3:00 hour ( I had to take an hour nap after a 20 min lunch because *I got almost no sleep*.) I have been doing a bit more to adjust for riding in deep powder. I noticed I was sinking quite a bit early yesterday so I started leaning back more, and the burn followed shortly after.
> 
> As far as tying all of this into progression I want to learn to do deeper/ steeper. I can ride groomers all day but you put me near moguls, or on a steeper incline with powder and I'm slow.


This is why I fatigue out earlier than I should: operating on a consistent sleep deficit. Never get sore day after but while snowboarding, my legs are giving me the finger early in the day. Sucks. Esp in spring conditions. 

Try getting enough sleep.


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## tanscrazydaisy (Mar 11, 2013)

binarypie said:


> Really? How will it make it worse?


It can lead to something called Hyponatremia

I've had symptons of it drinking water only when I mountain bike (because I'm too lazy to clean my camelbak bladder.

I had fatigue, headaches, nausea, vomitting & you guessed it cramps....

when you sweat, you sweat out a lot of salt, as well as potassium, calcium & magnesium.

So if you replace the sweat with water only, then you have a imbalance of electrolytes in the blood stream, which leads to the above.

I learned of all this stuff when I started cycling (XC mountain & road) and I apply much of this to snowboarding. Yes, every now and then, I do carry a flask with liquor also


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## binarypie (Nov 29, 2009)

tanscrazydaisy said:


> It can lead to something called Hyponatremia
> 
> I've had symptons of it drinking water only when I mountain bike (because I'm too lazy to clean my camelbak bladder.
> 
> ...


Interesting. Thanks for the insight! I often eat a cliff bar or chew throughout my day so this probably why I'm not seeing the same thing.


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## thatkidwho (Feb 15, 2014)

I remember reading about an average of 5 people die a year from this. The symptoms are a pretty common issue with marathon runners.


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## tanscrazydaisy (Mar 11, 2013)

binarypie said:


> Interesting. Thanks for the insight! I often eat a cliff bar or chew throughout my day so this probably why I'm not seeing the same thing.


Clif bars or energy chews is great for energy, but not hydration. I usually have clif bars on me when I'm on the mountain... snacking & drinking while I'm on the lift. A lot cheaper than crappy & expensive resort food.

Combining (in liquid form or semi-liquid) hydration and energy isn't also ideal either. It can lead to further dehydration.

on a side note, if you can't trust Allen Lim... then try Dr. Stacy Sims.
Is Your Hydration Drink Making You Dehydrated? | The Cycle Life | OutsideOnline.com

Osmo Nutrition


She shares a simlar methodology for hydration & energy

drink your hydration
eat food for energy

P.S. 
When you're done riding, you also need the proper timing & nutrition as well.... before I hit the junk food (and/or booze)


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## binarypie (Nov 29, 2009)

tanscrazydaisy said:


> Clif bars or energy chews is great for energy, but not hydration. I usually have clif bars on me when I'm on the mountain... snacking & drinking while I'm on the lift. A lot cheaper than crappy & expensive resort food.
> 
> Combining (in liquid form or semi-liquid) hydration and energy isn't also ideal either. It can lead to further dehydration.
> 
> ...


Energy chews and goos but also bars to some degree have a lot of Sodium, Potassium, and generally a mix of metals. If followed by water you should get the same benefits. Although perhaps not as quick.


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## tanscrazydaisy (Mar 11, 2013)

binarypie said:


> Energy chews and goos but also bars to some degree have a lot of Sodium, Potassium, and generally a mix of metals. If followed by water you should get the same benefits. Although perhaps not as quick.


I haven't had a gel that worked for me. I do like slurping a Hammer Nutritution Apple-Cinnamon, because it tastes like apple pie, but that's for afterwards.

This video, I have found to be interesting:







a popular and cheap snack is actually fig newtons.


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## thatkidwho (Feb 15, 2014)

Interesting video. I wonder how it would fair if the calorie counts were the same. Since the message was about eating calories not drinking them.


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## tanscrazydaisy (Mar 11, 2013)

thatkidwho said:


> Interesting video. I wonder how it would fair if the calorie counts were the same. Since the message was about eating calories not drinking them.


the whole point of the video was about different strategies that some people take.

the 400 calories of drink mix, which is 4 to 5 packets of the Skratch (which is 80 cals each)......

but that video was more a simplified model for hydration.

Energy metabolization is different, so that video doesn't apply.


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## booron (Mar 22, 2014)

tanscrazydaisy said:


> It can lead to something called Hyponatremia


If you're really worried about this then just drink a Gatorade. I average almost 250 miles a week on the bicycle and my rule of thumb is i'll do a Gatorade per hour and a half of continuous cycling. Which is basically in line with what the experts advise for vigorous aerobic exercise. If I ate a cliff bar during a half century or something I wouldn't even bother. But I've got no aversion to a little bit of sugar...


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## Manicmouse (Apr 7, 2014)

If you're very inactive in the off season and not dedicated enough to work on those leg muscles there is one easy workaround...

Learn to ride switch.

When I get burn on my back quad I just take it easy on the groomers in switch to give my back leg a rest.

Modern life huh


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

If you're just now addressing your fitness while in the middle of a boarding trip... it's too late. You'll do more harm by doing a bunch of lunges or whatever.... best is good hydration, stretching, a good breakfast and don't do a 10hr full on riding day without breaks. You should reasonably handle an 8hr riding day with a couple of breaks inbetween. Also Hot tubs are nice, booze is bad.

Also, blend in a couple green runs every once in a while throughout the day. Blacks and some blues are hard excercise. Some people can handle it, but if you are feeling shot, then your fitness is not at that level yet. :dunno:


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## thatkidwho (Feb 15, 2014)

The video was to demonstrate absorption of the stomach.
I think the demonstration is flawed becuase it compares a single severing to a double to a 5x serving with the same amount of water. It would make sense the the 2x and 5x dehydrated the eggs. Both solutions didn't completely dissolve and the remaining material would absorb liquid from the eggs.
I suspect you would get the same results if you used the same product in the each case.


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## tanscrazydaisy (Mar 11, 2013)

He explained how some people load up on the hydration powder to get calories for energy.

The model isn't flawed. It is a simple demonstration to illustrate hydration. 

The stomach isn't representative of this. The stomach wall has to withstand the corrosive nature of hydrochloric acid we product to aid digestion


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## irrballsac (Dec 31, 2011)

F1EA said:


> If you're just now addressing your fitness while in the middle of a boarding trip... it's too late. You'll do more harm by doing a bunch of lunges or whatever.... best is good hydration, stretching, a good breakfast and don't do a 10hr full on riding day without breaks. You should reasonably handle an 8hr riding day with a couple of breaks inbetween. Also Hot tubs are nice, booze is bad.
> 
> Also, blend in a couple green runs every once in a while throughout the day. Blacks and some blues are hard excercise. Some people can handle it, but if you are feeling shot, then your fitness is not at that level yet. :dunno:


I'll give this a shot, it's usually hitting powder that kills my legs. I'll try doing more switch, and I've been loading up on water today. Maybe it could be a mix of no sleep/ not prepared enough. I'm not going to try to fix the problem by tomorrow, but it's definitely something I'll be a lot more proactive about in the future. I took some magnesium, have been stretching, and will hit the hot tub in a bit.

I think it worked out best this way, so I can see whistler tomorrow with more snow and spend the day in Seattle today. It was amazing out today here. Tons of sun and active ladies


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## irrballsac (Dec 31, 2011)

So I woke up this morning at 3:30, and drove up to whistler. Made it before 8, and did some wandering around while there. Decided to park by base 2, and the Excalibur gondola. Badass spot. 

The day started off fucking rough. It was raining a little bit, icy, and foggy. My first run I ate shit, and was glad I had my helmet, but my neck took the brunt of it. I rode down to the bottom and sat for a bit. Got my bearings back as went back out. After it started to warm up a bit it became amazing. I rode ALMOST all of the lifts on black comb, minus a few that were closed, then they opened the peak2peak, so I went to whistler and got lunch. 

It looked like a ghost town for most of the day. Not many people, and I will say it definitely lives up to the hype. By the end I the day I did 22.3k vertical, and 26 miles. Only down side is I have no idea how much my phone bill will be from tuning off airplane mode, and using Canadian data. Minus an hour and a half of stopping, I rode first chair to last. I stepped off the mountain drenched in sweat, and leg burn for days. At least this time it was manageable. 

Thank you for your hints and advice.


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## thatkidwho (Feb 15, 2014)

Glad you had fun! Where to next?


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## irrballsac (Dec 31, 2011)

Now I have to go home. I'll definitely be back to the area again. I was impressed with some of the shops, and the different culture here. It may be in the running for a place I decide to move to.


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## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

irrballsac said:


> The day started off fucking rough. It was raining a little bit, icy, and foggy. My first run I ate shit, and was glad I had my helmet


glad u had fun...^ pretty much standard operating procedure

btw...also pretty much guarenteed that u did *not* ride pnw pow this trip...so u have to come back.


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## rambob (Mar 5, 2011)

Ride more.


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## irrballsac (Dec 31, 2011)

rambob said:


> Ride more.


Nailed it. Thanks bob.


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

irrballsac said:


> Now I have to go home. I'll definitely be back to the area again. I was impressed with some of the shops, and the different culture here. It may be in the running for a place I decide to move to.


:thumbsup: cool. That was a lot of mileage for just a few days. Sounds like a nice trip!

Whistler is definitely a work out. But the day is short, so proper hydration, a rest here and there; with the long chairlifts, then a green run to chill a bit and look at the scene..... is a nice plan to no over-work yourself.

People are super nice in the area as well. Definitely a good place to live if you don't mind rain (and in the case of Vancouver, if you can afford it).


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## destroy (Dec 16, 2012)

I roof all year. Over 500,000 lbs of hot rubber last year by my crew...keeps the legs strong on this giraffe.

Opening day is a breeze!


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