# 2016 Board Choices



## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

A bad craftsman blames his tools and being that the Custon X is the most used board in pipe, I'm gonna guess he just cant ride a snowboard. That was a terrifying review and in the end he claims the Salomon Rancho, a setback directional scallop tail pow centric freeride deck, is a similar board. Dude doesn't know his ass from a hole in the ground.

Now, the X is certainly a great carving/freeride deck. But, coming from rental boards it may be a bit of a shock. It is a zero forgiveness deck. If you're not on top of it riding the board, it will ride you.

Now if we're talking edge hold, carving, and occasional deep options the three boards that come to mind for someone coming off rentals are the Ride Berzerker, Flow Solitude, and Niche Story.

If you're considering a ToughCat you better be pinning chutes in Alaska at 70mph, or you look like Terry Crews. That board is not meant for mere mortal men.


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## BurtonAvenger (Aug 14, 2007)

Didn't even realize that guy compared the board to the Rancho. That review is pure and utter shit. Definitely keep the Custom X in consideration or as mentioned the Niche and I would say maybe look into one of the Yes or Jones boards.


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## Lewis (Jan 18, 2015)

Thanks for the feedback guys. I think that is the problem with a lot of the information out there - its hard to tell who is talking rubbish and who knows what they are talking about. 

I will probably be 90% groomer 10% pow so as long as it is responsive and precise on piste I will be happy. 

I hear what you are saying regarding the tolerance but of the many (rental) boards I have ridden I was by far the best when I had a traditional camber board which required less effort to make things happen. 

Going to go down to a snowdome in the UK to really iron it out before I take the plunge. My added problem is I don't feel comfortable in anything other than Flow bindings so I think I will be needing to buy a set of NX2-GT's to go with the new deck!


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## BurtonAvenger (Aug 14, 2007)

Lewis said:


> Thanks for the feedback guys. I think that is the problem with a lot of the information out there - its hard to tell who is talking rubbish and who knows what they are talking about.
> 
> I will probably be 90% groomer 10% pow so as long as it is responsive and precise on piste I will be happy.
> 
> ...


If you want a site that people trust for reviews check out mine and Nivek's reviews. Snowboard Reviews Archives - The Angry SnowboarderThe Angry Snowboarder


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

Lewis said:


> ...
> which suggests that Custom X isn't the best board for high speed carving.


It may not be _the_ best, but sure _one of the_ best for speed n carving. Sweet thing abt it is that it's nice to ride also in crud n moguls, whereas those few boards which may be even a notch more aggressive will get close to unridable in shitty conditions cos they are too stiff n unforgiving. 

Been bit surprised that the reviewer thought that it's nice in pow since exactly this was always the drawback of it IMO, but I don’t know the latest model and it always depends on conditions and what someone is used to ride normally (e.g. if the guy usually rides alpine boards, the review would make some kind of sense :dunno 

Anyway... you say it's your first board after rentals. I'd say you're wide away from even getting close to the point you'd push the limits of a X. It's the favourite board of the guys I'm riding with, >25y experience, they ride _very_ fast and carve deep trenches at high speed with that deck.


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## Snow Hound (Jul 21, 2012)

Yes basically what Neni said. Many people think they need an X. Most of those would be just fine and maybe even better on a regular Custom. Neither is great in powder - you've got to be heavy on the back foot or move the bindings back. I went from a Custom to a very similar board with a CRC profile. The difference in carving was hardly noticeable (to me). The difference in powder was very noticeable and it was a lot more fun.


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## SkullAndXbones (Feb 24, 2014)

like everyone else has already said, the custom x is an EXCELLENT board for high speed riding and carving. one of the best out there for that riding style.


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## Lewis (Jan 18, 2015)

Thanks for your replies guys. 

That's really informative. Sounds like the X is the way to go!


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## Snow Hound (Jul 21, 2012)

Lewis said:


> Thanks for your replies guys.
> 
> That's really informative. Sounds like the X is the way to go!


I'm not sure you actually read/understood what was said but it seems like your heart is set on a Custom X so that's what you should get.


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## Lewis (Jan 18, 2015)

Snow Hound said:


> I'm not sure you actually read/understood what was said but it seems like your heart is set on a Custom X so that's what you should get.


I understand Snow Hound. I tried the Custom and Custom X last year and whilst they both felt pretty good the Custom X just seemed to feel more up my street. 

But given that was on an indoor snowdome I just wanted to put the feelers out on here given that I came across the review above which started to sow some seeds of doubt. I hope my view doesn't offend you. 

Cheers for advice guys,

Lewis


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

Just curious as I don’t know snowdomes... what kind of pitch n vertical are we talking? I can barely imagine if it's even possible to demo such a board appropriately there? i.e. can one pick up enough speed to test stability, carve wide fast turns n check edgehold? one would need one hell of a building...


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## Lewis (Jan 18, 2015)

neni said:


> Just curious as I don’t know snowdomes... what kind of pitch n vertical are we talking? I'm wondering if it's even possible to demo such a board appropriately there? i.e. can one pick up enough speed to test stability, carve wide fast turns n check edgehold? one would need one hell of a building...


Hi Neni,

Yeah they aren't that big so I wasn't pushing it anywhere near the limit.

They are fairly steep but not that wide.

Unfortunately there aren't any resorts in the UK to have a proper go!


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

Yeah, it's pretty flat n warm over there... except of the Scottish highlands, which are beautiful! 

Hmmm... I've just looked up some numbers of snowdomes which brings me to another question. Where will you mainly use the board? For indoors, the X would be a massive overkill. If you travel to ride, how often? It's not meant to sound offensive, but... A Custom - or even my tiny rocker freestyle board - are capable to be stable till a certain fairly quick speed, way faster than a snowdome would allow to pick up. You'd have to get to pretty high speeds till they chatter. I'm not sure if that's what you're into yet. As Snow Hound said, many don't need a X and are better off with a Custom. You could save the extra coins it costs.


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## Lewis (Jan 18, 2015)

Yeah - shame about the Scots though! ha

I tend to get out to Europe once or twice a year and then will travel to the snowdome once a month or so just to keep things ticking over. 

I think I'd rather buy a board that could handle anything but I hear what you are both saying. I'm not saying I'm really good (far from it at the moment) but I would rather get something that I could handle anything so I wouldn't have to potentially buy twice in case I wanted something stiffer. 

I have been boarding on and off for about 10 years but never took it to the next level until now so although I have just rented in the past I would say that I am intermediate at the minute.


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

K... could make sense then. It's a good board to make this step up, it's demanding and will ask you to use proper technique but it's not super unforgiving. And if you - for whatever reason - end up to not liking it, it's easy to re-sell.
Have fun!


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## Lewis (Jan 18, 2015)

I suppose when you look at it like that it probably sounds like quite a good plan! 

Thanks for your opinions on this - Just want to make sure as much as possible that I do the right thing!

Thanks


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## Snow Hound (Jul 21, 2012)

Lewis said:


> I think I'd rather buy a board that could handle anything


And that's the point we're trying to make. The X comes into its own when ridden very hard and very fast on smooth steep pistes. A decent rider could make it work in moguls/powder/whatever but it'll take considerably more effort and skill than a more versatile board.


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

Lewis said:


> Thanks for your opinions on this - Just want to make sure as much as possible that I *do the right thing!*


That's the thing... everybody here tries to convince you that this is _not_ the right thing . But you seem to be set.

The doubts arise cos you think this board "can handle anything" since it's actually the other way around. Be aware that if you choose a board which is specialized in something, you always loose something else, you loose versatility. Thus, the rider needs to compensate for this loss. The stiffer n more responsive a board, the more you need to be attentive on what you're doing, as the board immediately reacts. It also reacts immediately to signals you haven't intended, little imbalances, be it due to lack of experience or being tired. Whereas on a less stiff n responsive board, you've the opportunity to "just cruise", relax, cos the board will forgive little failures. 

The problem is, since you won't ride a lot it's likely that you don't have the legs to ride the thing as aggressively as it should be ridden to enjoy it on good groomers, and it will demand way more work of you in moguls. You'll have fun the first morning on your trip as long as the conditions are good, then you'll get tired plus conditions will get worse and it's likely that you won't enjoy the board anymore, it's too much work to ride it, and you probably will catch some edges cos concentration gets low and you may not have the muscle memory yet to avoid this. Next two days you'll have sore muscles and won't enjoy to ride cos you can't push the board. At the end of the trip, you may have good runs again in the good morning conditions. With a less specialized more versatile board, you probably ride way more cos this board actually "can handle anything" (it'll just be less good in the trait where the specialized board shines) .

I've ridden too stiff n long boards many years, also as intermediate. It can be done, it can be fun, one learns a lot with them, but be aware that it'll be strenuous. It's fun if you're determined and really want to ride aggressively, see it as challenge to push yourself and don't mind that your board won't allow you to relax. If that's your cup of tea, you really need to prepare your legs well before you do your trips! (Once a month in a snowdome won't be enough, that's nothing)


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## Nolefan2011 (Mar 12, 2011)

Good lawd man, people like to act like the Custom X is some nasty beast of a board that must be tamed or you will die trying.

It's a freaking stiff side of medium flexing cambered board. Ridden it many times. There are many boards that are more aggressive, and many boards I would grade out as more challenging, but at the end of the day, it's camber. So many people have ridden hybrid that they forgot that snowboards used to all be cambered and brutally stiff in the beginning of time.

If you can ride and know how to carve, you will be fine. If you are solid rider, you will find a way to make it feel playful as you progress. Would I ride rails or boxes with it? No. Can you jump? Sure. Can you carve? It's great at that. It's really not this massive beast that people make it out to be. I'd compare it to a Jamie Lynn from Lib Tech.


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## Lewis (Jan 18, 2015)

Thanks for your comments guys. 

I think I have misled you when I said "handle anything". What I mean't was handle anything in terms of speed. I don't expect to be doing lots of pow and definately nothing on the end freestyle side of things as thats not my bag so I would be happy if it was just really good at carving on the groomers. I might not be that fast at first but I would like to think if I wanted to start going faster as I improve my technique I would be able to and know that it would hold. 

I'm not set on the Custom X otherwise I wouldn't have asked you guys the question in the first place. As I said earlier I just don't want to have to buy twice in case the custom wasn't stiff enough. 

I've had a few bad experiences where less stiff boards have washed out on me (I'm 6 ft 2 and 90kg+) and had lots of chattering so I wouldn't want to be in a situtation where I decided to just go for the Custom and couldn't handle it. Not saying that would be the case but that is my concern. 

I learned to ride on full camber boards which made me think that the X wouldn't feel as "scary/harsh/unforgiving" as others may feel about it. 

I feel like I have unleashed some anger in people. That wasn't my intention.


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

Lewis said:


> I've had a few bad experiences where less stiff boards have washed out on me (I'm 6 ft 2 and 90kg+) and had lots of chattering so I wouldn't want to be in a situtation where I decided to just go for the Custom and couldn't handle it. Not saying that would be the case but that is my concern.
> 
> I learned to ride on full camber boards which made me think that the X wouldn't feel as "scary/harsh/unforgiving" as others may feel about it.
> 
> I feel like I have unleashed some anger in people. That wasn't my intention.


Hahaha, don't worry, it's just normal that different ppl have different opinions . Just wait n see what happens when you come up with the question, which size the board should have (lol). A very important question tho, since for what you aim at, you need a decent edge to work with. The washing out was likely caused by the lack of thereof (also a X sucks if too short )


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## Nolefan2011 (Mar 12, 2011)

Lewis said:


> Thanks for your comments guys.
> 
> I think I have misled you when I said "handle anything". What I mean't was handle anything in terms of speed. I don't expect to be doing lots of pow and definately nothing on the end freestyle side of things as thats not my bag so I would be happy if it was just really good at carving on the groomers. I might not be that fast at first but I would like to think if I wanted to start going faster as I improve my technique I would be able to and know that it would hold.
> 
> ...


No anger from me. I am supporting your idea to buy a Custom X. You are fine. The board isn't a burly beast. I think some people just don't know how to ride cambered boards and got sloppy on rocker.


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## Lewis (Jan 18, 2015)

Thanks for the comments people.

I'll make sure I try both the Custom Camber and Custom X out before I take the plunge.

No doubt I will be back for your thoughts post test-ride! 

Bring on September.


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

Lewis said:


> I'll make sure I try both the Custom Camber and Custom X out before I take the plunge.


That's a very good plan. Best, try them on a real mtn when you're in the Alps. 

Oh yeah, I'm longing for some colder days... hope, we won't have another '03 winter with close to zero snow like the last time when we has such a heat summer... the last two winters were bad enough  would be a bummer to get plenty of rock sctratches in that new deck


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## Lewis (Jan 18, 2015)

Yeah I wouldn't want that!

With all this talk of El Nino apparently that results in harsher winters in Europe so hopefully it will be a good year ahead!


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## Lewis (Jan 18, 2015)

Hi guys,

I have contacted one of the top snowboard shops in the UK outlining what we have been discussing in this thread and they have recommended the following boards:

Nidecker Megalight
Neversummer Snowtrooper
Capita Mercury

Have any of you had any experience of these boards? Do you think they are appropriate alternatives? I'm not sure how experienced this guy is so I wanted to run them by you all for your thoughts. 

Thanks,

Lewis


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## francium (Jan 12, 2013)

Trying a snowboard like the custom x in a snowdome is pointless they're not steep, long or wide enough to have any idea how it'll be on a mountain, that's why myself and most other UK riders have a shorter more playful board for indoors then we have our mountain boards. If you ring shops in the UK this time of year they'll try and sell you whatever stock they've got left. Hoe long have you been riding as others have said the custom x isn't going to kill you but it won't be that much fun. If you're washing out it might be that the boards you were riding weren't long enough or that the edges needed a service. I'd say the regular custom would suit what you're going to be using it for.


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## Lewis (Jan 18, 2015)

Thanks for your thoughts Francium.

I hear what you are saying and I agree but at the moment I don't want two boards so I was thinking of just getting something that could handle high speed charging on groomers and thereby anything at lower speeds (i.e. snowdomes etc).

As I mentioned earlier in the thread I intend to have a massive testing session in September when the new season boards are here. I just wanted to get a feel if this guy was talking BS with his recommendations.

Thanks


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## deagol (Mar 26, 2014)

Lewis said:


> .. I was thinking of just getting something that could handle high speed charging on groomers and thereby anything at lower speeds (i.e. snowdomes etc).
> ...


Just a point to make here: the best board for riding at really fast speeds may not really be a very good board for slower speeds. Sidecut radius’s an all… generally a faster board will have you doing longer GS or Super-G type turns.. not very good for riding slower. If I was looking for a "slow speed board" that would be good in an indoor situation, I would look for something that would want to naturally carve a shorter radius turn.

An example I don't see mentioned here is Furberg. They are long radius sidecut boards, so it looks like they don't even have any sidecut.. they are made for big alpine style turns, but not too great (IMO) at slow speed tight turns.


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## Lewis (Jan 18, 2015)

Good point Deagol.

Hopefully September will make everything clearer!


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## SGboarder (Jun 24, 2012)

Lewis said:


> Thanks for your thoughts Francium.
> 
> I hear what you are saying and I agree but at the moment I don't want two boards so I was thinking of just getting something that could handle high speed charging on groomers and thereby anything at lower speeds (i.e. snowdomes etc).
> 
> ...



Mixed bag of recommendations there.
Snowtrooper is the odd one out among those three boards - rocker dominant, CRC profile, considerably softer than the other recommendations.
The other two are camber dominant freeride chargers. Somewhat similar to the Custom X but with lifted contact points.

Just like the Custom X, none of these can handle what you are planning to do with the deck particularly well. Regular Custom is much more capable for that purpose.


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

If you're interested in CRC boards as well, the Never Summer Raptor (I always forget which is the successor model... Is it Ripsaw or Chairman?) could be an option. Very sweet freeride board which carves easily n smoothly, can be ridden at very high speeds, but is also nicely forgiving in crud and to negociate moguls. If you like CRC that is. I enjoyed carving with it a lot. Point n shoot not so much, but that's a personal thing, I'm just no big fan of rocker between the feet. But as you're going to demo, keep an eye on that one. Some of the guys here will know if the successor still is such a well balanced (not overly but nicely aggressive) deck.


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## deagol (Mar 26, 2014)

I have ridden all three boards Neni mentioned. 

I believe the Chairman is the successor to the Raptor. The Ripsaw is a bit different. They have similar profiles, though... 
Someone may post who knows more, though. 

I own a Raptor and have also ridden both the 2016 Ripsaw and Chairman and I love them both. If I had to choose one, I would choose the Chairman, but would probably be happy with either one. Raptor is not as aggressive as the Chairman, IMO. 

I believe that the Chairman has extended sections of camber compared to the Raptor, which made it hold a carve better IMO. The Ripsaw has this as well. 

If I spent a lot of time in an indoor ski area, I would not choose the Chairman because that board would not be good confined in a small space like that..

If it was a choice for all 3 boards, and I would be in a confined indoor ski area much of the time (even knowing I would have 2-3 trips to bigger mountains per season) it would be the Ripsaw, hands down. 

YMMV


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## snowklinger (Aug 30, 2011)

deagol said:


> I believe the Chairman is the successor to the Raptor. The Ripsaw is a bit different. They have similar profiles, though...
> Someone may post who knows more, though.
> 
> disclaimer: I own a Raptor and have also ridden both the 2016 Ripsaw and Chairman and I love them both. If I had to choose one, I would choose the Chairman, but would probably be happy with either one. Raptor is not as aggressive as the Chairman, IMO.
> ...



Riding the Chairman indoors would be like using a pickup truck as a grocery cart.

Also the Chairman has the original R/C, not the Ripsaw tech (for comparison)


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## Lewis (Jan 18, 2015)

Thanks for your thoughts guys. 

I will definitely make sure I try the Custom out as well as I like the fact that you can get a fully camber version. I've never tried the hybrid camber that seem to be really popular at the minute. 

Have any of you started on full camber and moved over to the hybrids? If so, what made you think it was better? 

Thanks,

Lewis


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## francium (Jan 12, 2013)

Yep learnt on camber still ride camber but also ride rcr as the rocker in the nose gives more float and they're a bit more forgiving when you're messing about.


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## deagol (Mar 26, 2014)

francium said:


> Yep learnt on camber still ride camber but also ride rcr as the rocker in the nose gives more float and they're a bit more forgiving when you're messing about.


same here....


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

Two decades on trad camber. Now I've mainly directional RCR decks cos they're just better in pow. Still have a true camber in the quiver for pure resort riding but she rarely gets out as those RCR are also a blast to charge n carve on groomers. IMO, RCR combines the best of two worlds. Camber between feet for stability, rocker in nose for float. If you think of not only stay on groomers on your trips but also ride pow, hybrids are worth to consider. (Tho... hybrid <> hybrid  big selection in features there as well. You'll open a Pandora's Box )


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## Lewis (Jan 18, 2015)

Interesting to read. 

I don't envisage going off in Pow that much - maybe something to explore as I get more advanced. 

I have been informed by the shop I have been in contact with that they don't allow you to demo boards etc but they have recommended I go to the "Big Bang Weekend" which is held at a couple of snowdomes in the UK in October.

Apparently they have a lot of choice so it sounds like I will have to wait until then to get an idea of what I like the most. 

Not sure how many people buy their gear without actually having tested it out. :chin:


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## francium (Jan 12, 2013)

Quite a lot of people buy gear without testing it sometimes it's ok, sometimes not. As you get better it gets easier as you know what profiles, flex and length you like even then it doesn't always go to plan.


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## Brewtown (Feb 16, 2014)

Lewis said:


> Thanks for your thoughts guys.
> 
> I will definitely make sure I try the Custom out as well as I like the fact that you can get a fully camber version. I've never tried the hybrid camber that seem to be really popular at the minute.
> 
> ...


RCR to me is like watered down camber. Not quite as precise, doesn't have quite the bite or rebound when carving. There's also a bit less pop but its easier to access, don't have to load up as much. What you get in return is better float, easier presses, and better recovery from off balance landings. Of course this is all generalization, each brand does it a bit differently so feel/performance will vary. This is my preferred profile though as you get most of the camber benefits without the drawbacks. 

CRC is a different animal to me. You get great float, almost effortless to press, and it has really fast turn initiation that's great for riding in tight spaces and throwing quick spins. It's almost impossible to catch an edge if your a good rider, the downside is you really need to set an edge when landing spins as the rocker makes it easy to unintentionally revert out. The other negative for me is that carving just isnt as fun, its' like riding on autopilot, some boards still carve quite well but there's just something missing. The real deal breaker for me is the squirrely nature when flat basing on hardpack. As the rocker lifts the contact points it can feel like youre riding on a saucer when not on edge, the harder the snow the worse it gets. 
I'm a pretty intermediate park rider so maybe it's just my technique, but where I really notice this is on straight take offs on bigger jumps. 

Having a board that can handle both high and low speeds has more to do with flex than profile, which is why some people were steering you away from the custom x. Keep it mid flex, if you go traditional camber boards like the reg custom, rome agent, nitro team, etc. seem like solid options.


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## deagol (Mar 26, 2014)

Brewtown said:


> RCR to me is like watered down camber. Not quite as precise, doesn't have quite the bite or rebound when carving. There's also a bit less pop but its easier to access, don't have to load up as much. What you get in return is better float, easier presses, and better recovery from off balance landings. Of course this is all generalization, each brand does it a bit differently so feel/performance will vary. This is my preferred profile though as you get most of the camber benefits without the drawbacks.
> 
> CRC is a different animal to me. You get great float, almost effortless to press, and it has really fast turn initiation that's great for riding in tight spaces and throwing quick spins. It's almost impossible to catch an edge if your a good rider, the downside is you really need to set an edge when landing spins as the rocker makes it easy to unintentionally revert out. The other negative for me is that carving just isnt as fun, its' like riding on autopilot, some boards still carve quite well but there's just something missing. The real deal breaker for me is the squirrely nature when flat basing on hardpack. As the rocker lifts the contact points it can feel like youre riding on a saucer when not on edge, the harder the snow the worse it gets.
> I'm a pretty intermediate park rider so maybe it's just my technique, but where I really notice this is on straight take offs on bigger jumps.
> ...


a lot of really good info in this post...:goodpost:


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

Brewtown said:


> The real deal breaker for me is the squirrely nature when *flat basing* on hardpack. As the rocker lifts the contact points it can feel like youre *riding on a saucer when not on edge*, the harder the snow the worse it gets.


That's a pretty good description and exactly what I didn’t like with this profile.

+1 on the Rome Agent recommendation.

Lewis, if you'd like to try a huge selection of boards AND get a early season mtn fix, do a trip to Saas Fee in autumn. You get a demo pass and can try as many boards (n bindings) as you like Information - Snowboardbox.ch // Box & Future Try Veranstaltungen in Sölden, Saas-Fee, Davos & Les Croisettes. Easyjet flights to Geneva are cheap and there's a youth hostel in Saas Fee.


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## snowklinger (Aug 30, 2011)

Brewtown said:


> RCR to me is like watered down camber. Not quite as precise, doesn't have quite the bite or rebound when carving. There's also a bit less pop but its easier to access, don't have to load up as much. What you get in return is better float, easier presses, and better recovery from off balance landings. Of course this is all generalization, each brand does it a bit differently so feel/performance will vary. This is my preferred profile though as you get most of the camber benefits without the drawbacks.
> 
> CRC is a different animal to me. You get great float, almost effortless to press, and it has really fast turn initiation that's great for riding in tight spaces and throwing quick spins. It's almost impossible to catch an edge if your a good rider, the downside is you really need to set an edge when landing spins as the rocker makes it easy to unintentionally revert out. The other negative for me is that carving just isnt as fun, its' like riding on autopilot, some boards still carve quite well but there's just something missing. The real deal breaker for me is the squirrely nature when flat basing on hardpack. As the rocker lifts the contact points it can feel like youre riding on a saucer when not on edge, the harder the snow the worse it gets.
> I'm a pretty intermediate park rider so maybe it's just my technique, but where I really notice this is on straight take offs on bigger jumps.
> ...





deagol said:


> a lot of really good info in this post...:goodpost:


agree to disagree.

IMO and IME the drawback with CRC flatbasing seems to be the only problem. Well you just don't ride it that way and you're fine. I agree that it can suck flat, but IMO riding flat is bad form on any profile so at that point the critique falls apart.

Camber initiation happens for me similarly with CRC as camber because the contact points for camber engagement are at the same part of the board, so as long as the edge in question is weighted, you can expect camber-like performance.

On the other hand, RCR for me is more like a full rocker board with some tech like the System from Arbor where the board locks in between your feet. Personally this feels really weird to me. I want to feel my effective edge loading as I use it. RCR is for me riding full rocker with your middle locked in. Spooky feeling in the trees and critical situations as I don't know how to make something like this unlock and engage dynamically, whereas I can expect CRC to perform in a similar way to true camber in these situations.

Similar to flatbasing, another caveat with CRC can arise when making turns, newbie ones or dynamically. You have to have deliberate form as the board is twisted and edge engagement goes from one side to the other. Because of the nature of the rocker, as you unweight, this edge can get hung up on the snow if you do not make your turns properly (dynamic movement, front foot control, etc).

I've ridden both types of boards with L'gorge and he likes his DBX alot, but I just can't get wid it.


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## Brewtown (Feb 16, 2014)

snowklinger said:


> agree to disagree.
> 
> IMO and IME the drawback with CRC flatbasing seems to be the only problem. Well you just don't ride it that way and you're fine. I agree that it can suck flat, but IMO riding flat is bad form on any profile so at that point the critique falls apart.
> 
> ...


Regarding flat basing I agree, but as I mentioned it's really only noticeable on park jumps. I can't remember if the OP is even interested in park riding so I don't want to derail things too far, but for me, unless I'm spinning I like a board that will track straight and boost off the tail. With CRC you have to make more of a conscious effort to stay on edge to avoid a terrifying take off. 

Comparing RCR to full rocker seems crazy to me, but I've never been on an Arbor. It may have more to do with the edge tech than profile or it could just be a difference in preference/riding style. You do feel the effective edge more between your feet though and even more so on a board like the DBX bc of the death grip. I rode that board in CO two years ago and agree it was a bitch in the trees, but I attribute that more to the sidecut and flex than profile. 

I don't really follow the rest of your post, but I think we can chalk this up to different opinions and preferences. A good lesson to the OP or anyone else new to the world of hybrids on why you should demo whenever possible.


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## timmytard (Mar 19, 2009)

Lewis said:


> Interesting to read.
> 
> I don't envisage going off in Pow that much - maybe something to explore as I get more advanced.
> 
> ...


Gotta be close to 90%?

I've never gotten to try something first


TT


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## deagol (Mar 26, 2014)

Yeah, I was gonna address the flat basing issue, it can be mitigated with edge pressure (which, I guess, isn't really flat-basing). I don't feel the need to really flat-base at all, so it's not a big drawback for me..

I loved the NS Chairman since I was able to ride with hard-booters and carve right along with them, and absorb more of the shutters than they could and ride bumps on the backside the very next run, where those hard booters would never tread. 
I really love the new NS profile and that board in particular.. but it seems I might be getting way off-topic, so I didn't say anything..


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## Seppuccu (Dec 4, 2012)

neni said:


> Lewis, if you'd like to try a huge selection of boards AND get a early season mtn fix, do a trip to Saas Fee in autumn. You get a demo pass and can try as many boards (n bindings) as you like Information - Snowboardbox.ch // Box & Future Try Veranstaltungen in Sölden, Saas-Fee, Davos & Les Croisettes. Easyjet flights to Geneva are cheap and there's a youth hostel in Saas Fee.


I don't know about Lewis, but that sure caught _my_ attention.  Neni, do you know anything about approx how much it costs, and about what time they open up for registrations? The site doesn't state much at this point.

And Lewis, would you care to share what UK tests you were thinking of going to?


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

Anticrobotic said:


> I don't know about Lewis, but that sure caught _my_ attention.  Neni, do you know anything about approx how much it costs, and about what time they open up for registrations? The site doesn't state much at this point.


I don't remember anymore when I did the registration; also the price for the demo pass alone I can't say, cos I had a package booked over our local shop (IIRC 2 nights hotel, 3d demo pass and lift pass was 250CHF). But there's a contact email adress given on the page.


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## Mig Fullbag (Apr 15, 2014)

snowklinger said:


> IMO riding flat is bad form on any profile so at that point the critique falls apart.


Bad form? Flatbasing is the best way to get the maximum speed out of a board and conserve it for as long as possible to get through some flats or just get up to speed when you need it. It is harder to master, but much faster than applying pressure to the edges. P-tex is faster than steel.


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## Seppuccu (Dec 4, 2012)

Ok, thanks! I just figured I could check with you before contacting them. Too bad the Swiss franc jumped 25% recently.  Still that would be a pretty good price.

Good place, Saas-Fee?


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

Mig Fullbag said:


> Bad form? Flatbasing is the best way to get the maximum speed out of a board and conserve it for as long as possible to get through some flats or just get up to speed when you need it. It is harder to master, but much faster than applying pressure to the edges. P-tex is faster than steel.


Was thinking the same . 
Can't remember any flats in LUV, but SK, in our home resort, you _have_ to flatbase or you've no chance to get enough speed to cover our many flats (and even ascents )


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

Anticrobotic said:


> Ok, thanks! I just figured I could check with you before contacting them. Too bad the Swiss franc jumped 25% recently.  Still that would be a pretty good price.
> 
> Good place, Saas-Fee?


It's a nice town, car free, tidy n neat with lots of traditional chalet type houses in the middle of high mtns. You get the Swiss Alps feeling. The slopes will only be open that time are on the glacier. Only short runs, but that's as good as you get that early in the season. Has some turns which are decently steep, if you're lucky, you can ride also bit pow left n right off the piste. Lift is a T-bar, it can be pretty windy up there, you certainly learn to use ur edges on that t-bar . Zermatt is just around the corner, so if you go to Saas Fee, add a day on the Zermatt glacier: those runs are just under the Matterhorn and an eye candy. I've posted pics over here http://www.snowboardingforum.com/general-travel-forum/180490-help-early-season-snowboarding.html


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## deagol (Mar 26, 2014)

neni said:


> Was thinking the same .
> Can't remember any flats in LUV, but SK, in our home resort, you _have_ to flatbase or you've no chance to get enough speed to cover our many flats (and even ascents )


the middle part of LUV is pretty flat, IMO....
not totally flat, but too flat for my tastes....
still agree camber is better for these situations.


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## snowklinger (Aug 30, 2011)

Even when flatbasing I like to pressure one edge or the other. 

I get what you guys are saying not gonna argue physics but yea needing to go straight like that represents about 0% of my snowboarding. 

There are several mountains around here with pretty lame run-outs to be sure.


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

snowklinger said:


> Even when flatbasing I like to pressure one edge or the other.
> 
> I get what you guys are saying not gonna argue physics but yea needing to go straight like that represents about 0% of my snowboarding.
> 
> There are several mountains around here with pretty lame run-outs to be sure.


Haha, you better never visit us :laugh: Topography of our resort is horrible. I've to point it abt 20% of each runs to make it over the ubiquitous flats n ascents n never ending run outs :facepalm3: there are still two spots I don't manage to negociate not even if I leave my comfort zone top speed :dry::embarrased1:


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## snowklinger (Aug 30, 2011)

neni said:


> Haha, you better never visit us :laugh: Topography of our resort is horrible. I've to point it abt 20% of each runs to make it over the ubiquitous flats n ascents n never ending run outs :facepalm3: there are still two spots I don't manage to negociate not even if I leave my comfort zone top speed :dry::embarrased1:


This is especially rough in fresh snow, at least here. Our stuff is so dry that even on mild runouts and known spots you gotta rip that shit when its fresh and cold!

I don't mind dealing with this kind of thing or hiking at all, fwiw, jus' sayin'....u know me...I ride funsticks...not modes of transportation....#tooweakforbc


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## Lewis (Jan 18, 2015)

Thanks for the replies people. 

Neni - Thanks for the heads up on Saas-Fee - I may look into this in more detail if it doesn't end up being too expensive. 

Anticrobotic - My (limited) understanding is that two weekends in October each year, lots of demo gear lands at two of the UK's snowdomes so you can go and try for free. All you have to do is book a lift pass (2 hour lift pass are usually like £25) and you are good to go. 

The event is called "the Big Bang Snowboard Show Weekender" and takes place at a snowdome in Glasgow and then in a snowdome in a place called Tamworth (near Birmingham). 

Obviously this is a much cheaper option for me vs. Saas-Fee but the journey out there may be worth it so I can get to feel what the board is like on piste rather than in a cramped snowdome.


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## Lewis (Jan 18, 2015)

http://www.bigbang-show.com/#!timetables/c2401 

See above for their website. it hasn't been updated for 2015 yet but I think the dates for Tamworth are 17th and 18th October.


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## timmytard (Mar 19, 2009)

deagol said:


> Yeah, I was gonna address the flat basing issue, it can be mitigated with edge pressure (which, I guess, isn't really flat-basing). I don't feel the need to really flat-base at all, so it's not a big drawback for me..
> 
> I loved the NS Chairman since I was able to ride with hard-booters and carve right along with them, and absorb more of the shutters than they could and literally, ride bumps on the backside the very next run, where those hard booters would never tread.
> I really love the new NS profile and that board in particular.. but it seems I might be getting way off-topic, so I didn't say anything..


I'd always heard about this phenomenon, but never expeienced it until this past season @ Whistler.

The *only *time I did feel it, was when I had to ride out an extremely long cat flat cat track.
I found the squirrel. haha

But, I would never, ever choose to go down something like that & I never went that route again.

I can't stand groomers though, I'll ride any terrain, chopped to shit, sun cupped, whatever it's better than groomers.

So I never feel that squirrelyness.

Unless you are trying to get as much speed as possible, you bon't need to be flat basin', do some carves.

Here's a hint.
The more carves you do, the faster you will improve.

You flat base all day & only do 5 carves, it's gonna take you 20 years to get ok.

If you do as many carves as possible, all day. I mean crank em out, hundreds & hundreds of quick carves all day, you'll be rockin' the house in a week or so.


TT

Side note. 
How do you bleed off speed? Mig knows. haha


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## mojo maestro (Jan 6, 2009)

#tooweakforbc is trending right now...............


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## timmytard (Mar 19, 2009)

deagol said:


> Yeah, I was gonna address the flat basing issue, it can be mitigated with edge pressure (which, I guess, isn't really flat-basing). I don't feel the need to really flat-base at all, so it's not a big drawback for me..
> 
> I loved the NS Chairman since I was able to ride with hard-booters and carve right along with them, and absorb more of the shutters than they could and ride bumps on the backside the very next run, where those hard booters would never tread.
> I really love the new NS profile and that board in particular.. but it seems I might be getting way off-topic, so I didn't say anything..


I only had 2 runs on my Chairman, it was a mine field out there.
Plus @ 64 regular width it felt weird, or maybe it was a mind trick?

It just looked really, really long & narrow compared to the 56 Heritage X, RipSaw 60 X & West X 60. 

It didn't feel long when I was on it, softer for sure though, the X's are definitely burlier.

The new RipSaw R/C is awesome, for hard pack & ice, or just general shitty conditions, it powers through everything. 
I've never been as fast & felt so comfortable doing it, as I have on the Ripsaw X.
I've never been a fan of twin boards, ever.:finger1:
Was 110% certain I was gonna love the West X way more, on paper it has more of the things I want over the Ripsaw.

Wasn't even close. Plus for the first time in my life.
I was able to dynamically carve fakie/switch.
Wasn't trying to, was just fucking around.
Then for a split second, I was locked in

When you get locked in, it's a different feeling than skidding around.

So for the next few hours, that's what I did. Pretty trippy, haha, never really thought I would be able to do that? 

The Chairman is the old R/C, the original R/C does better in the pow.
So the Swift, Chairman & others are still the original R/C.

This sticks out for me.
The *only *time I ever felt that squirrel was on that super long shitty cat track around the bottom of Whistler.
Also the first & only time I felt each camber section compressing under my feet.

Ridin' the squirrel was makin' me lose speed, so I had to keep a very slight edge. After a while I started to feel the compression under each foot.
You can pump that shit out for speed.

I went from ridin' the squirrel & losing speed. to being able to generate it myself.
Only felt it on that one shitty cat track, both sensations.
I chose to go different routes, that's how I solved the squirrel.


TT


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## Lewis (Jan 18, 2015)

Hi guys,

Given that October is a bit far off yet I have been looking on sites myself to see if I can find other boards that are similar to the Burton Custom so hopefully I will be able to try when I go to the demo weekend. I came across the Nitro Diablo (which I think is a new baord for 2016) and the Nitro Blacklight.

Does anyone have any experience of these boards? do you think they are pretty similar to the Custom/worth considering? 

Thanks,

Lewis


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## Snow Hound (Jul 21, 2012)

Lewis said:


> Does anyone have any experience of these boards? do you think they are pretty similar to the Custom/worth considering?


No experience but Nitro boards are generally well regarded. I do own an old Custom though and looking at the specs I'm pretty sure I'd enjoy the Gullwing Blacklight more as an all mountain all conditions board. The Camber version looks like its very similar to the Custom and maybe a touch stiffer with slightly better edge hold.

I can't impress upon you how much of a revelation going from camber to CRC was for me. I had 2 very similar boards with the only real difference being the profile. Yes the camber board rides flat better and has a little more snap coming out of carves but for everything else the hybrid was more fun. This year conditions were not great so I rode my old board mostly and where on my newer board I'd be constantly looking for opportunities to pop a little 180 and ride switch for a bit this was out of the question on the Custom. No confidence. You could easily argue that the profile is helping to mask my crappy technique. And what? I'm lucky to get 20 days per year and need to maximise the fun.


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## ridinbend (Aug 2, 2012)

Something more comparable to the X would be the Nitro Pantera.


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## Lewis (Jan 18, 2015)

Hi all,

Well the day came and went yesterday and it was a real eye-opener. 

I tried the following boards: 

Burton Custom Camber twin (155)
Salamon Assassin (158)
Jones Explorer (162)
Yes Optimistic (158) 
Capita BSOD (156)


Whilst I got on with all of them (apart from the Burton Custom which was probably due to the small size), for me, the Capita BSOD was the winner. 

I loved the locked-in responsive feel but still having some playfulness unlike the Custom X. The board was a little short for me but worked fine given that I was on a small indoor slope. I intend to purchase a 162 to give me more stability at speed when I get out on the real stuff!

Another interesting development was that I found some bindings other than Flow that I really got on with. I tried the Now IPO bindings which were pretty good. I would be interested to hear what others think of Now bindings in general.

My two main questions now are:

1) Do I go with Flow NX2-GT or something like the Now O-Drive, which has a comparative stiffness level?

2) Is the Flow NX2-GT or Now O-Drive going to be too stiff for the Capita BSOD given that it is about a 6/10 in terms of stiffness? Would the stiffness of the binding make a massive difference to the way the board performs?

The problem I have is that nowhere in the UK has Flow on demo for me to make a direct comparison.

I intend to go with some Burton Ion boots this year given that my Ambush boots are a bit soft and don't give me enough support.

Any thoughts on the above would be greatly appreciated,

Thanks,

Lewis


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## thugit (Sep 29, 2009)

Lewis said:


> Hi all,
> 
> Well the day came and went yesterday and it was a real eye-opener.
> 
> ...


Definitely the NOW's for me over the Flows. Not even close in my mind. The highback stiffness of the NOW's almost isn't even relevant because it's not necessary to ride the bindings. They were produced without the highback in mind, as the whole hanger/skate truck system provides enough responsiveness to make the highback obsolete. That being said, I've only tried the IPO's and never the O-Drives.


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