# Early season reminders



## linvillegorge (Jul 6, 2009)

Word to the lazy (like me) - get your ass in shape!

I'm gonna be hurting in the early season, but I'll be good to go once things get cranking. Three months straight of 65-70 hour work weeks aren't exactly conducive to getting or staying in shape.


----------



## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

Bud over to dinner last night before the film fest, one of the local avy experts he said folks are already hiking, some without gear thinking its too early/not enough to slide.:thumbsdown:


----------



## DrnknZag (Feb 7, 2010)

Just finished reading Bruce Tremper's book last week, and one thing that got drilled in my head is a thin snowpack is a weak snowpack. I'm seeing so many people already getting out there and after it, I just hope we're all staying safe. 

It reminds me last year on opening day at Stevens Pass, ski patrol was letting people hike up to the closed lifts at their own risk. I was hiking (with my gear of course) followed by a bunch of park rat stoners following me. I remember them talking about hiking all the way up Cowboy Ridge. Someone asks about avalanches. The kid leading the charge goes "nah bro, there's not enough snow." I just looked back and shook my head.

Here's a pic I saw on FB from Baker last weekend, looks like some good turns...


----------



## almostheaven (Sep 30, 2012)

Living on the east coast I dont know much about avalanche conditions but the bit of safety advice I preach is always wear a helmet. Even if you are 100% confident in what and where you are riding that day, the guy coming up behind you might not be. 

A little horror story..an instructor I work with hit his head and has not entered REM or deep sleep in the last 3 years without the help of serious medications. After last season he was studied extensively at Wake Forest University. 

Things like this are uncommon but why risk it when it is easily preventable with one piece of gear.


----------



## killclimbz (Aug 10, 2007)

If someone is hitting me from behind while I am on a run in the backcountry, they better kill me, because I am going to kill them. That is akin to a drive by shooting. Something like that should never happen. This isn't resort riding.

A helmet is still a good thing. Stuff that is marked inbounds is not. So a tumble could easily put your head against rocks and other unknown obstacles. Never bad to wear a helmet. It is limited as to what it will protect you from. You should not be worrying about collisions in the backcountry. A very basic tenant is one person is exposed to danger at a time. You don't gang bang slopes while you are out there.


----------



## AcroPhile (Dec 3, 2010)

I didn't even realize that there is enough snow yet in Colorado to be even thinking about venturing out into the backcountry or even roadside laps off one of the passes.


----------



## killclimbz (Aug 10, 2007)

Yesterday.


----------



## linvillegorge (Jul 6, 2009)

Cameron Pass?


----------



## walove (May 1, 2009)

Scouting out smooth grassy areas in the summer makes finding smooth turns in the fall easier. It just feels good to put the skins on and go for a walk.

Went out yesterday to bridger and asked a couple of hunters which way they were headed so I could stay out of their way, they seemed nice. As I left I heard them joking about us wearing beacons, I smiled and them you never know. Only six inches of snow at the trail head, close to two feet up high. A lot of steep tricky terrain at bridger.


----------



## 161lip (Aug 5, 2012)

To anyone who has ever rode Berthoud Pass:

The past two seasons my friends and I have began riding BP. We're aware of the risks and dangers involved with back country skiing at BP; however, none of us have taken an avalanche course, nor do we own any equipment. I ask that you do not berate me too much for this; I plan to purchase all necessary equipment before my first ride, and take an Avy1 course by years end. 

My question is: We always ride Floral Park, when we're at Berthoud, because everything else seems ostensibly dangerous. Furthermore, we rarely ever hike further than Jim's Glades. I'm aware that if there's snow, then there's the potential for sliding, but what are the risks involved in this area specifically? It seems less severe than, say, chutes on Hell's Half Acre. Of course, I have no formal avalanche training.:dunno:


----------



## linvillegorge (Jul 6, 2009)

1st step - get gear. Beacon, probe, and shovel at minimum.
2cd step - Classes | Friends of Berthoud Pass

Floral Park definitely slides.

http://avalanche.state.co.us/acc/acc_report.php?acc_id=90&accfm=inv
http://avalanche.state.co.us/acc/acc_report.php?acc_id=95&accfm=inv


Here's a map of the major avalanche paths at Berthoud:

http://avalanchemapping.org/IMAGES/Bpastopoweb.pdf


----------



## killclimbz (Aug 10, 2007)

161lip said:


> To anyone who has ever rode Berthoud Pass:
> 
> The past two seasons my friends and I have began riding BP. We're aware of the risks and dangers involved with back country skiing at BP; however, none of us have taken an avalanche course, nor do we own any equipment. I ask that you do not berate me too much for this; I plan to purchase all necessary equipment before my first ride, and take an Avy1 course by years end.
> 
> My question is: We always ride Floral Park, when we're at Berthoud, because everything else seems ostensibly dangerous. Furthermore, we rarely ever hike further than Jim's Glades. I'm aware that if there's snow, then there's the potential for sliding, but what are the risks involved in this area specifically? It seems less severe than, say, chutes on Hell's Half Acre. Of course, I have no formal avalanche training.:dunno:


Remember that first statement I made? "If it's steep enough to ride it is steep enough to slide." All of the terrain you have written about has had slide activity. Floral proper is notorious for avalanches and is one of the more dangerous runs on the pass. Jim's glades slides less, but it has slid before in the past and it will slide again. Rarely enough to bury in that area, but there are lots of trees there. Getting carried into them can happen. Broken bones and trauma is likely. 

Check out the FOBP classes that Linville linked you too. They are pinned at the top of this forum. They are free. Berthoud Pass is a lot of fun, but there is a lot of danger there too. Being literally a foot past a certain spot can put you in life threatening situations. Bert is a world class spot, but it doesn't suffer mistakes lightly.


----------



## 161lip (Aug 5, 2012)

Thanks, guys. I will heed your advice.

By Floral Park, I mean the overall area that contains Jim's Glades, Hoop Creek, ect; so when I say we only ride Floral Park, I really mean we only ride Hoop Creek and Jim's Glades. Is this the correct way to talk about that area- is there a specific run called Floral Park?

Has Hoop Creek ever slid?


----------



## linvillegorge (Jul 6, 2009)

If it's 30 degrees or steeper or underneath terrain that is 30 degrees or steeper, it has the potential to slide. The "it's never slid before" thought process is a dangerous one. If it has snow on it and it's over 30 degrees, it can slide and Murphy's Law says that the first time you see it slide it'll be when your ass is on it.


----------



## killclimbz (Aug 10, 2007)

Hoop creek is a classic terrain trap in spots. So yes there is some danger there. Fairly safe most of the time. Yes there have been slides back there, enough to bury.


----------



## DrnknZag (Feb 7, 2010)

Slide in the Bridger Range last weekend......

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/10/29/3-skiers-partially-buried-by-avalanche-in-montana-1-injured/

Walove I know you're local out there, have you heard anything about this one?


----------



## walove (May 1, 2009)

i dont know the people but i know the line. I skied the same line last october. And turned back off a line last november. The bowl is very tight keeping sunlight out and holding snow for a long time. 

the bridgers picked up over two feet at that elevation from wed-sat night. then temps spiked sunday morning. certain aspects had a lingering crust and hoar from the early october snow. (seen in the gnfac video from sphinx mt) When i was out on thursday at the ski area all we could find was unconsolidated snow sitting on dirt grass and rocks. 

I guessing similar conditions as when we turned back off a line in the same bowl last november. We hiked on unconsolidated snow from the trailhead to the bottom of the bowl, around 2 miles. Still new snow on the ground and no base. As we started to climb the line to ski the new snow became more wind effected, and deeper. Hand tests had showed that the new snow was ready slide as it was now formed a slab from the wind and was sitting on the old crust. We stopped going up and climbed over a scree ridge and decended on a small protected slope. 

conditions change quick, elevation, and aspect change the picture fast. We were aware of where the old snow was because we had been into the area a few weeks before. Once its all covered things get tricky.

heres a video from last year 

32288390


----------



## killclimbz (Aug 10, 2007)

I really need to do some Montana splitting...


----------



## walove (May 1, 2009)

killclimbz said:


> I really need to do some Montana splitting...


you make the trip ill show you around. 

No easy access from mt passes like you have in CO. Get ready for a slog. The fairy lake area (from the video) is a four mile skin in on the road before you get to anything moderately steep once they close the gate. (gates still open this time of year making it a bit of a gangbang) Another two miles to get to some lines. Seems like most zones require atleast a three mile flat slog. The trail heads are close to town, with in 15 miles, so you spend your time hiking instead of driving. 

unless your talking cooke city..aka..heaven 

skipped the season pass this year and bought a cheap sled to get out to the steeps quicker. Working on a dynafit soft boot and kicker skin set up to make flats go a little quicker.


----------



## killclimbz (Aug 10, 2007)

I've heard that about Montana. A sled assist is very helpful. We do have a lot of great pass access here, but there are plenty of slogs too. Gore range stuff, fourteeners and most peaks over 13 require typically something like a 5-7 mile approach. Some even more, but I tend to start thinking I want a sled for those...


----------



## linvillegorge (Jul 6, 2009)

Yep, if you're talking 3 mile flat slogs pretty much everywhere you go, I'd definitely go the cheap sled route. Good call. :thumbsup:


----------



## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

Snowolf said:


> While good practice in general, it us especially important for the PNW riders to pay very close attention to the dramatically changing weather conditions. A Forest Service road up here that you use to access back country snow can become impassible even with the best 4x4 in a matter of hours as a result of our severe fall storms. If you are back on these roads, carry a chain saw and plenty of fuel. Fallen trees from these intense winds often block these roads then heavy snow can follow.
> 
> I had to cut 3 fallen lodgepoles from the road to Mt. Adams this summer after a wind storm!


ya don't want to be in the trees when the wind blows....which reminds me...Huddie

Black girl, black Girl, dont lie to me
Tell me where did you sleep last night?
In the pines, In the pines, Where the sun never shine
I shivered the whole night through.

Black girl, black girl, where will you go
Im going where the cold wind blows
In the pines, In the pines, Where the sun never shine
I will shiver the whole night through.

Black girl, black Girl, dont lie to me
Tell me where did you sleep last night?
In the pines, In the pines, Where the sun never shine
I shivered the whole night through.

My Husband was a Railroad man
Killed a mile and a half from here
His head, was found, In a drivers wheel
And his body hasn't never been found.

Black girl, black girl, where will you go
Im going where the cold wind blows
You called me weak, and you called me the most
You called rita, bring me back home.


----------

