# Burton Step-on Hot Spot Issues?



## Nate Smilovici

I just picked up a pair of photon steps-on's and the pinkie toe and the Tailor's bunion gets hot spots just laying around the house trying to heat mold these things. Usually wear a size 10 boot but went down to a 9 at first. After wearing them for 1 hour around the house my foot went numb and had severe hot spots in those areas. Then the same thing with the 10 just not as much numbness. No its not over tightened but it is tightish as it should be. When the outer cleat is under pressure from tightening the boa it really notches down into your foot causing pain and soreness within 10 min. I hate to say that since I've waited on a list all summer to pick mine up and now I'm probably going to either return them and scrap the whole step on system all together or try to see what other solutions are out there... My foot is not wide I tend to fit in a more euro shoe which typically is slimmer but this is a serious design flaw and will eliminate many people from enjoying this set up. AARRH!! Anyone here experience this similar issue find a fix? TIA!


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## Motogp990

I dont own stepons and I've never tried them, however snowboardprocamp reviewed them and they commented on getting a hot spot similar to you.


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## Wiredsport

Nate Smilovici said:


> I just picked up a pair of photon steps-on's and the pinkie toe and the Tailor's bunion gets hot spots just laying around the house trying to heat mold these things. Usually wear a size 10 boot but went down to a 9 at first. After wearing them for 1 hour around the house my foot went numb and had severe hot spots in those areas. Then the same thing with the 10 just not as much numbness. No its not over tightened but it is tightish as it should be. When the outer cleat is under pressure from tightening the boa it really notches down into your foot causing pain and soreness within 10 min. I hate to say that since I've waited on a list all summer to pick mine up and now I'm probably going to either return them and scrap the whole step on system all together or try to see what other solutions are out there... My foot is not wide I tend to fit in a more euro shoe which typically is slimmer but this is a serious design flaw and will eliminate many people from enjoying this set up. AARRH!! Anyone here experience this similar issue find a fix? TIA!


Hi Nate,

This issue in the step on boots is common and is often related to poor initial fit. Please measure your foot using this method:

Kick your heel (barefoot please, no socks) back against a wall. Mark the floor exactly at the tip of your toe (the one that sticks out furthest - which toe this is will vary by rider). Measure from the mark on the floor to the wall. That is your foot length and is the only measurement that you will want to use. Measure in centimeters if possible, but if not, take inches and multiply by 2.54 (example: an 11.25 inch foot x 2.54 = 28.57 centimeters). For width please place the inside (medial side) of your foot against a wall. Please then measure from the wall out to the widest point on the lateral (outside) of your foot.


STOKED!


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## N0lan

@Wiredsports: 
I own the burton step on Photons as well, size 13. 
I used your method measuring my feet. Length 30,0 cm; width 11,0 cm. 

Have quite wide feet and I feel the pressure on the side of my feet too.
Haven't heat molded them but wore them in house for several hours. What do you recommend?


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## Wiredsport

N0lan said:


> @Wiredsports:
> I own the burton step on Photons as well, size 13.
> I used your method measuring my feet. Length 30,0 cm; width 11,0 cm.
> 
> Have quite wide feet and I feel the pressure on the side of my feet too.
> Haven't heat molded them but wore them in house for several hours. What do you recommend?


Hi Nolan,

Yours is one of the common scenarios that works poorly with the step on system. 30 cm is actually Mondo 300 or size 12 in snowboard boots. But...11 cm at size 12 is an E width. The Photon Step On's are D width. You have upsized boot length a full size to gain the width that you need but that gives really poor results with this system. In terms of fit is misaligns the foot with the boot structures. In terms of performance is is awful because there is no outer binding to make up for a sloppy fit. This will get worse after the break in period and will degrade further over time.

I would strongly suggest that you opt for a Salomon Wide boot (E width) in size 12 with a conventional binding.

Stoked!


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## N0lan

Thanks for your reply! Well my toes actually touch the nose of the boot so I dont think the boot is to big in length. I cant return the boots and the pressure doesnt seem to be that terrible.. So I think i'll probably stick with these boots for a while and mod the boot as far as possible. I've heard about shops that can strech/widen boots a bit. What do you think about that? Will heat molding help further after several hours of wearing them indoors?


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## SGboarder

N0lan said:


> Thanks for your reply! Well my toes actually touch the nose of the boot so I dont think the boot is to big in length.


Toes touching the front of hte boot means nothing. Could mean that the the boots fit, might mean that the boots are too small or that the are too small.
In your case the boots are too long.



N0lan said:


> I cant return the boots and the pressure doesnt seem to be that terrible.. So I think i'll probably stick with these boots for a while and mod the boot as far as possible. I've heard about shops that can strech/widen boots a bit. What do you think about that?


Terrible idea. Your boots are already too big, so do not stretch them even further.



N0lan said:


> Will heat molding help further after several hours of wearing them indoors?


Of course it will. Heat molding always helps/improves the situation (unless a proper heat mold has already been done before). Wearing the boots (indoors or outdoors) does not heat mold them.


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## Wiredsport

N0lan said:


> Thanks for your reply! Well my toes actually touch the nose of the boot so I dont think the boot is to big in length.


Hi Nolan,

That is a common misconception. Just touching the end of the boot indicates that the boot is too large. This supports your measurements which indicate that the boot is 1 cm too long. In your correct Mondopoint size (which will be a full cm smaller than your current boots) both your toes and heels will have firm pressure into the compliant materials of the liner. Heat fitting is an important step but it has little to no effect when a boot is too large. I would see if the seller will take the boot back. If they are unused they likely will help you with a return or exchange.


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## Tony McCandless

Just literally got mine a few hours ago. have to say that sadly agree - these are way tight. I usually ride Northwave Dominion which are a stiff boot but these are just way too narrow on my foot.

I had heat moulds done for Northwaves so will do the same for the Photons and see if that makes a difference. I certainly hope so given what I spent on these.....


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## Wiredsport

Tony McCandless said:


> Just literally got mine a few hours ago. have to say that sadly agree - these are way tight. I usually ride Northwave Dominion which are a stiff boot but these are just way too narrow on my foot.
> 
> I had heat moulds done for Northwaves so will do the same for the Photons and see if that makes a difference. I certainly hope so given what I spent on these.....


I will be happy to help.

Please measure your foot using this method:

Kick your heel (barefoot please, no socks) back against a wall. Mark the floor exactly at the tip of your toe (the one that sticks out furthest - which toe this is will vary by rider). Measure from the mark on the floor to the wall. That is your foot length and is the only measurement that you will want to use. Measure in centimeters if possible, but if not, take inches and multiply by 2.54 (example: an 11.25 inch foot x 2.54 = 28.57 centimeters). For width please place the inside (medial side) of your foot against a wall. Please then measure from the wall out to the widest point on the lateral (outside) of your foot.


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## Tony McCandless

Both feet 27.8 cm and width 10.2 L and 10.4 cm R.


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## Wiredsport

Tony McCandless said:


> Both feet 27.8 cm and width 10.2 L and 10.4 cm R.


Hi Tony,

This is not going to be a good match for you. 10.4 cm is an E width which will be too wide for the "normal" D width Step on boots. Your Mondopoint size is 280 or size 10 in snowboard boots. Salomon makes some excellent Wide models in E width.

STOKED!


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## Nate Smilovici

After wearing them around the house over the past 4 days(10 hours or so) I've noticed the pinky and bunion hot spot area got fairly packed out to a nice snug fit with no issues. After running my hands along the inside of the boot without the liner I never felt a notch so i realized it was the liner causing this issue. There is a stitching on the liner that when in the boot, backs up to the hard plastic and metal cleat on the boot right before it starts to curve where the padding is thicker which created the issue hot spots. Heat molding will probably alleviate most peoples issues with a borderline E width foot. I may suggest to make sure you get the snuggest fit you feel ok in as I could see this being hazard if this boot becomes to large connected the way it does to the binding.


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## Wiredsport

Nate Smilovici said:


> After wearing them around the house over the past 4 days(10 hours or so) I've noticed the pinky and bunion hot spot area got fairly packed out to a nice snug fit with no issues. After running my hands along the inside of the boot without the liner I never felt a notch so i realized it was the liner causing this issue. There is a stitching on the liner that when in the boot, backs up to the hard plastic and metal cleat on the boot right before it starts to curve where the padding is thicker which created the issue hot spots. Heat molding will probably alleviate most peoples issues with a borderline E width foot. I may suggest to make sure you get the snuggest fit you feel ok in as I could see this being hazard if this boot becomes to large connected the way it does to the binding.


Hi Nate,

This is not sounding great to me. Did you ever provide your measurements? If not, please do.


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## Tony McCandless

Heat moulding eased mine up nicely as did the custom footbeds I have in all my boots.


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## Wiredsport

Tony McCandless said:


> Heat moulding eased mine up nicely as did the custom footbeds I have in all my boots.


Hi Tony,

What boot size did you end up with? 

STOKED!


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## Tony McCandless

UK 10. Liner much improved post moulding and footbed a great fit. Suspect latter helps place my foot much better than the cheap footbed that came with the boot. I temd to need orthotics in any sports footwear. 

Now for aome snow to test out. ?


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## SGboarder

Tony McCandless said:


> UK 10. Liner much improved post moulding and footbed a great fit. Suspect latter helps place my foot much better than the cheap footbed that came with the boot. I temd to need orthotics in any sports footwear.
> 
> Now for aome snow to test out. &#55357;&#56899;


That is not going to end well. Your foot length is for a UK9, so those boots are 2 sizes (1 full size) too large/too long...


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## Wiredsport

Tony McCandless said:


> UK 10. Liner much improved post moulding and footbed a great fit. Suspect latter helps place my foot much better than the cheap footbed that came with the boot. I temd to need orthotics in any sports footwear.
> 
> Now for aome snow to test out. ��


Hi Tony,

UK 10 is Mondopoint 290 or size 11 US in snowboard boots. Your foot length is 27.8 cm, so a full 1.2 cm smaller than the boot size that you have purchased. That is a big deal in snowboard boot sizing. A very common mistake in boot buying is to upsize the boot to cure a width issue. Your 10.4 cm width measurement above is an E width at your actual foot size (but is the top size in the width range for a "normal" D width at the size that you have purchased). I know that this sounds like a minor deal but the boots that you purchased will never be right. All of the foot structures will fail to align in a boot that is too large. This will get worse after break-in and will further degrade over time. I never like to bring bad news but it is better to know .


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## Tony McCandless

Interesting approach and well intended but given the advice you have handed out here then the same would apply for the Northwave Domains and the Northwave Legends which were in fact both US 11. Both were spot on and trust me facilitated many a great days riding. New ones are simply that I like to play with new tech and TBH I know what feels good and what doesn’t. 

BTW my Legends had the footbeds done in Big White last year and are like a glove all round - the shop there are exceptional and had zero issue with fit despite being in a position to offer me new boots had it been needed. 

So net net science is great but feel is a very very individual things. As such ease your conscience - your “bad news” is an opinion not a fact so I will appreciate the advice but respectfully make my own mind up where it counts - on the hill. 

For all the folk being put off Step On’s - my advice - if you can afford it without regrets give it a go - if it really doesn’t work out wing them back to Burton or put them up for sale and somebody else will take a punt if only out of the curiosity we all have for new toys. Step Ons cannot not fit everybody. 

Ride safe.


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## Wiredsport

Hi Tony,

I certainly won't push the issue with you if you are stoked. I responded because you had written, "I temd to need orthotics in any sports footwear". That is very common for individuals wearing oversized boots. Most find that they are able to shed orthortics, custom footbeds, J bars, etc when they move to their actual Mondopoint size at their actual width. If you ever decide to explore that we will be here...beating the drum.

STOKED!


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## Nate Smilovici

Tony McCandless said:


> Heat moulding eased mine up nicely as did the custom footbeds I have in all my boots.



I think it's mainly with the photon lining issue as I tried on a ION boot in the same size and didn't have any issues from the start. Glad it worked out for you as it did for me. Enjoy!!


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## N0lan

Wiredsport said:


> Hi Nolan,
> 
> That is a common misconception. Just touching the end of the boot indicates that the boot is too large.


What do you mean by this? Do my toes need to pierce through the fabric or be half folded in the shoe in order to be the right fit?


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## Wiredsport

N0lan said:


> What do you mean by this? Do my toes need to pierce through the fabric or be half folded in the shoe in order to be the right fit?


Hi Nolan,

No Sir. Not quite that extreme  Boots are designed so that when you are wearing your Mondopoint size You will have firm pressure (both toe and heel into the compliant materials of the liner). If you are just touching that will mean that the boot is ~1 cm too large (one full boots size). You should be overhanging the insert of the boot by ~1 cm. You can check this by removing it. Post up a picture or two of yourself standing on the insert if you have the time. 

PS: This is by no means an argument on my part. I am sharing some experience and I have no problem if my suggestions are not followed or even considered. They are given with my best intentions. 

STOKED!


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## Outlaw911

Nate Smilovici said:


> I just picked up a pair of photon steps-on's and the pinkie toe and the Tailor's bunion gets hot spots just laying around the house trying to heat mold these things. Usually wear a size 10 boot but went down to a 9 at first. After wearing them for 1 hour around the house my foot went numb and had severe hot spots in those areas. Then the same thing with the 10 just not as much numbness. No its not over tightened but it is tightish as it should be. When the outer cleat is under pressure from tightening the boa it really notches down into your foot causing pain and soreness within 10 min. I hate to say that since I've waited on a list all summer to pick mine up and now I'm probably going to either return them and scrap the whole step on system all together or try to see what other solutions are out there... My foot is not wide I tend to fit in a more euro shoe which typically is slimmer but this is a serious design flaw and will eliminate many people from enjoying this set up. AARRH!! Anyone here experience this similar issue find a fix? TIA!


I had this EXACT problem...hot spot 5th metatarsal head with my new Burton step-ons (10.5 ruler's boots + medium step-ons). 
I fixed this with a "Bootfitter" boot stretcher from Amazon ($40) and a hair dryer.


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## docterstupid

Bought this setup (Photon size 13) in December and have used ~10 days. Had the same issue with sore pinky toes after the first couple of days, but figured out that I had the ankle strap on the boots done up just a bit too tight. No issues since then. Absolutely love these things.


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## MattW

Hi there, interested in reading this. I bought the Photons in UK size 12 and boarded for a week in Feb. Had the same trouble. Soreness on right foot at its widest point into base of small toe. Particularly when stopping would almost cramp too. Foot dimensions as per instructions above are 29.4cm long and 10.5cm wide so I’m wondering if width is the issue here? Any insight appreciated!

Matt


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## Crusty

Wiredsport said:


> Boots are designed so that when you are wearing your Mondopoint size You will have firm pressure (both toe and heel into the compliant materials of the liner). If you are just touching that will mean that the boot is ~1 cm too large (one full boots size).


Huh, I never knew. This should be emphasized more often. Not that I've actively sought your advice, but I've casually read several boot fitting threads here and hadn't caught that nugget of wisdom.

I kind of want my boots to wear out faster now.


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## Wiredsport

Crusty said:


> Huh, I never knew. This should be emphasized more often. Not that I've actively sought your advice, but I've casually read several boot fitting threads here and hadn't caught that nugget of wisdom.
> 
> I kind of want my boots to wear out faster now.


Hi,

Yes, this cannot be emphasized enough. The range for any mondopoint size (half size) is 5 mm. If your foot is with that 5 mm range you will have the fit described above. That is how boots are designed to work.

STOKED!


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## MattW

If anyone has a perspective in this it’d be much appreciated. Still undecided to push on through or switch back to the Salomon. Never had pain from these.


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## Radialhead

MattW said:


> Hi there, interested in reading this. I bought the Photons in UK size 12 and boarded for a week in Feb. Had the same trouble. Soreness on right foot at its widest point into base of small toe. Particularly when stopping would almost cramp too. Foot dimensions as per instructions above are 29.4cm long and 10.5cm wide so I’m wondering if width is the issue here? Any insight appreciated!
> 
> Matt





MattW said:


> If anyone has a perspective in this it’d be much appreciated. Still undecided to push on through or switch back to the Salomon. Never had pain from these.


Are you sure your measurements are accurate & are actually done according to the instructions? It's amazing how many people get that wrong. If so, your feet are standard width, but your boots are 1.5 sizes too big. These are Wiredsport's links for sizing: https://snowboardbootsizer.com/ https://www.wiredsport.com/width2.JPG


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## Wiredsport

Radialhead said:


> Are you sure your measurements are accurate & are actually done according to the instructions? It's amazing how many people get that wrong. If so, your feet are standard width, but your boots are 1.5 sizes too big. These are Wiredsport's links for sizing: https://snowboardbootsizer.com/ https://www.wiredsport.com/width2.JPG


Hi,

Radial has some good advice there. UK 12 (US 13) is Mondopoint 310. At 29.4 you would be a size 11.5 US or Mondopoint 295. Please confirm those measurements with some images of your bare feet being measured. 

STOKED!


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## mutantshark

Outlaw911 said:


> I had this EXACT problem...hot spot 5th metatarsal head with my new Burton step-ons (10.5 ruler's boots + medium step-ons).
> I fixed this with a "Bootfitter" boot stretcher from Amazon ($40) and a hair dryer.


can u elaborate on what you did to adjust your boots? i have a pair of Swaths US11 and having same issues with my back foot

i am about to measure my feet, but my right foot is smaller than my left, visibly, and has always been an issue. My last boots were 10.5US Burtons and i would get FRONT foot pain all the time! Now with my new boots, my front foot doesnt hurt at all (literally rode nonstop for 4hrs yesterday, never unclipped my front foot, and not a signal issue). But im getting this REAR foot hot spot now: I dunno if its my foot shifting in the boot while riding to a new and offset position, which is placing the bone in the wrong place for the cleat? taking the boot on and off helps, so leaning towards my foot shifting in the boot while riding....

EDIT:
Left foot - 28.3cm (US 10.5)
Right foot - 27.8 cm (US 10)
Width - roughly 10.5cm


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## yaksplat

mutantshark said:


> can u elaborate on what you did to adjust your boots? i have a pair of Swaths US11 and having same issues with my back foot
> 
> i am about to measure my feet, but my right foot is smaller than my left, visibly, and has always been an issue. My last boots were 10.5US Burtons and i would get FRONT foot pain all the time! Now with my new boots, my front foot doesnt hurt at all (literally rode nonstop for 4hrs yesterday, never unclipped my front foot, and not a signal issue). But im getting this REAR foot hot spot now: I dunno if its my foot shifting in the boot while riding to a new and offset position, which is placing the bone in the wrong place for the cleat? taking the boot on and off helps, so leaning towards my foot shifting in the boot while riding....
> 
> EDIT:
> Left foot - 28.3cm (US 10.5)
> Right foot - 27.8 cm (US 10)
> Width - roughly 10.5cm


I've been out 3 times with my US11.5 swaths and I'm in the same boat. I replaced 20 year old Original Sin step in's that never once had any issue. Now after about 20 minutes of riding, I'm in constant pain, outside of the pinkie toe and big toe. I'm going to try the Photon Wide boots and see if that makes a difference. If I can find them.


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## Pablo$

Holy shit. I just sparked one up and read all of wiredsport's replies in a robot voice out loud to myself.

TOKED!


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## Snow Hound

Pablo$ said:


> Holy shit. I just sparked one up and read all of wiredsport's replies in a robot voice out loud to myself.
> 
> TOKED!


I'm pretty sure he's an android. Never gets riled, despite disbelieving dick heads daily.


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## Jack87

Wiredsport said:


> Hi Nolan,
> 
> No Sir. Not quite that extreme  Boots are designed so that when you are wearing your Mondopoint size You will have firm pressure (both toe and heel into the compliant materials of the liner). If you are just touching that will mean that the boot is ~1 cm too large (one full boots size). You should be overhanging the insert of the boot by ~1 cm. You can check this by removing it. Post up a picture or two of yourself standing on the insert if you have the time.
> 
> PS: This is by no means an argument on my part. I am sharing some experience and I have no problem if my suggestions are not followed or even considered. They are given with my best intentions.
> 
> STOKED!


I appreciate you sharing your experience and applaud you continue to do so! Please don't ever let those that choose to look the other way discourage what you do because it is very helpful to others!


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## Daniel Furgatch

I am in the process of getting the swath step ons. I have super bent pinkie toes and am now afraid that the boots are gonna be too painful. Can i put one of those stretcher machines that bumps out the toe, like i can for work boots? Not sure the molding thing will be enough.


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## rixter145

For me, I wear the Burton ultra light weight compression sock and that removed any hotspots for me. What socks are you guys all wearing? Maybe try thinner socks


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## Daniel Furgatch

Outlaw911 said:


> I had this EXACT problem...hot spot 5th metatarsal head with my new Burton step-ons (10.5 ruler's boots + medium step-ons).
> I fixed this with a "Bootfitter" boot stretcher from Amazon ($40) and a hair dryer.


So the work boot toe stretcher thing works on the cleat? Pushing it out to take the pressure off the baby toe. Think i am gonna need that for my Swath step ons.


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