# Am I ruddering?



## flipstah (Feb 3, 2015)

So this is the first time in a while that someone videotaped me (it's usually me doing it) and I just want to know if I picked up bad habits like ruddering.






Footage of me is scattered from 1:48 mark (orange pants, black jacket).

I'm using body lean and shoulders to turn pretty much. Pointing helps too.

I imagine my feet are on rockers and just... Do it really.

But it's way different when someone records you and critiques you from a third-party perspective. 

If there's other techniques I should focus on, I'm all ears! I want to get better. :happy:


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## ryannorthcott (Dec 17, 2010)

Looks to me like you are bending more at the waist and less at the knees. I would work on bending your knees more and get your buddies to duct tape your hands to the side of your pants as well, that will help with the unnecessary upper body movement.


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## cookiedog (Mar 3, 2014)

Shit your AV it's BURNING MY EYES and giving me epileptic seizures!!


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## Manicmouse (Apr 7, 2014)

Pretty hard to see clear footage of your technique but it looks like you need to keep your weight forward more when initiating turns.

Turn on your edges rather than swishing your back foot around.


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## GOskiLF_bum (Feb 5, 2013)

it looks like you're in moguls or bumps of some kind...if that's the case, then rudder away. If you'd like to improve in bumps, trees, moguls, etc., then work on independent leg bending and straightening. Make sure you bend at the knees and ankles, not the waist. This video is tough to see what you're actually trying to accomplish though.


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## flipstah (Feb 3, 2015)

ryannorthcott said:


> Looks to me like you are bending more at the waist and less at the knees. I would work on bending your knees more and get your buddies to duct tape your hands to the side of your pants as well, that will help with the unnecessary upper body movement.


So I shouldn't have busy arms then? One pointer I got was to point where I'm going and that helped so I guess I'll have to kill that habit?



cookiedog said:


> Shit your AV it's BURNING MY EYES and giving me epileptic seizures!!


STARE AT IT. STARE. IT WANTS YOU TO GIVE ME ALL OF YOUR LIFE SAVINGS.



Manicmouse said:


> Pretty hard to see clear footage of your technique but it looks like you need to keep your weight forward more when initiating turns.
> 
> Turn on your edges rather than swishing your back foot around.





GOskiLF_bum said:


> it looks like you're in moguls or bumps of some kind...if that's the case, then rudder away. If you'd like to improve in bumps, trees, moguls, etc., then work on independent leg bending and straightening. Make sure you bend at the knees and ankles, not the waist. This video is tough to see what you're actually trying to accomplish though.


Yeah, it was mogul galore in majority of the footage (2:50-2:56 for example) but in some groomer runs, I still can't believe how upright I look even though I felt like I was low to the ground. I looked like a sail. (1:55 start and 3:33 start)


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## ekb18c (Mar 11, 2013)

Your avatar and video just caused me to have a seizure. I'm spazzing right now... Yuck


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## flipstah (Feb 3, 2015)

ekb18c said:


> Your avatar and video just caused me to have a seizure. I'm spazzing right now... Yuck


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## MGD81 (Mar 13, 2012)

GOskiLF_bum said:


> it looks like you're in moguls or bumps of some kind...if that's the case, then rudder away.


Sorry, thats completely incorrect. 

Take a lesson, an instructor will pretty quickly give you some stuff that will dramatically improve your riding.

Your video hurts my brain.


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## flipstah (Feb 3, 2015)

MGD81 said:


> Sorry, thats completely incorrect.
> 
> Take a lesson, an instructor will pretty quickly give you some stuff that will dramatically improve your riding.
> 
> Your video hurts my brain.


I think I'll have to now because I'm getting conflicting information.

Yeah, I wanted to experiment with the sound... My other ones are less seizure-inducing!


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## GOskiLF_bum (Feb 5, 2013)

MGD81 said:


> Sorry, thats completely incorrect.
> 
> Take a lesson, an instructor will pretty quickly give you some stuff that will dramatically improve your riding.
> 
> Your video hurts my brain.


well we're going to disagree on this one 'cause it's not completely incorrect. is kicking out your back foot perfect in moguls? no. But for this rider it's effective. and i can tell you from experience that any good instructor would say the same thing. they would work up to better techniques in the future but there's absolutely nothing wrong with doing this in bumps.


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## MGD81 (Mar 13, 2012)

GOskiLF_bum said:


> well we're going to disagree on this one 'cause it's not completely incorrect. is kicking out your back foot perfect in moguls? no. But for this rider it's effective. and i can tell you from experience that any good instructor would say the same thing. they would work up to better techniques in the future but there's absolutely nothing wrong with doing this in bumps.


Stop digging.

You don't teach bad technique and then unteach it.

You teach good technique on easier tasks/terrain then build from there. 

I know lots of good and bad instructors, I don't know a single one that would give that advice. 

Question for you - how easy is flexing/extending to absorb bumps when you are left twisted from kicking that back foot? 

Second q - if you kick your back foot out and it doesnt point all the way across the hill, how are you going to control your speed?


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## GOskiLF_bum (Feb 5, 2013)

MGD81 said:


> Stop digging.
> 
> You don't teach bad technique and then unteach it.
> 
> ...


who's digging now? look, this is a difference of opinion. but perhaps this would help: 

www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_7FH6EE5YY

ok no clue how to post youtube on this site...sorry about that.


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## MGD81 (Mar 13, 2012)

GOskiLF_bum said:


> who's digging now? look, this is a difference of opinion. but perhaps this would help:
> 
> www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_7FH6EE5YY
> 
> ok no clue how to post youtube on this site...sorry about that.


You are digging, a big hole!

Seems like you are unaware of the difference of ruddering and short radius turns with upper lower body separation.

Ruddering is kicking your back foot around, it leaves you twisted on your toes and makes you throw your upper body around like a fool - you have to because you are not using your snowboard to make the turns. 

Old mate in the video is purposefully keeping his shoulders silent pointing down the hill, and using a combination of fore-aft pressure and front leg/knee/foot steering to turn his snowboard underneath him - This is pretty much the only way to ride zipperline bumps effectively. He is NOT ruddering.


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## GOskiLF_bum (Feb 5, 2013)

MGD81 said:


> You are digging, a big hole!
> 
> Seems like you are unaware of the difference of ruddering and short radius turns with upper lower body separation.
> 
> ...


ok...perhaps ruddering is a bad word. But he is pivoting. Ruddering or pivoting I really don't give a fuck. and if you don't think he's not kicking his back foot out and pivoting, then you need to watch the video again. he mentions windshield wiper turns...same thing. pivoting, ruddering, wiper turns...who cares. I apologize for not using the official lingo, but perhaps this is the biggest issue with instructors?


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## MGD81 (Mar 13, 2012)

It's a good video, but I don't need to watch it again. 

I would be pretty shit at my job if I couldn't tell the difference between someone turning with their lower body vs their upper body.

Sounds like you can't tell the difference, so either educate yourself or stop giving shitty advice out that harms peoples snowboarding.


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## GOskiLF_bum (Feb 5, 2013)

MGD81 said:


> It's a good video, but I don't need to watch it again.
> 
> I would be pretty shit at my job if I couldn't tell the difference between someone turning with their lower body vs their upper body.
> 
> Sounds like you can't tell the difference, so either educate yourself or stop giving shitty advice out that harms peoples snowboarding.


i'm curious....explain to me how one rudders. and you couldn't be more off on your last comment, but how can you really be sure of that? you don't know my past, education, experience, etc. i'm almost certain our definition of rudder is two totally different things. honestly I enjoy these debates so chill a bit. The way I view ruddering is exactly what's described in the video. Ruddering to me would be the windshield wiping turns. I very well could be using rudder wrong, however.


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## Manicmouse (Apr 7, 2014)

GOskiLF_bum said:


> who's digging now? look, this is a difference of opinion. but perhaps this would help:
> 
> www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_7FH6EE5YY
> 
> ok no clue how to post youtube on this site...sorry about that.


That vid is a perfect example of what to do instead of ruddering.

Nice technique demonstrated there.


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## flipstah (Feb 3, 2015)

GOskiLF_bum said:


> who's digging now? look, this is a difference of opinion. but perhaps this would help:
> 
> www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_7FH6EE5YY
> 
> ok no clue how to post youtube on this site...sorry about that.


Thanks for this. My carving is garbage compared to this. :facepalm1:


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## radiomuse210 (Sep 5, 2014)

GOskiLF_bum said:


> who's digging now? look, this is a difference of opinion. but perhaps this would help:
> 
> www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_7FH6EE5YY
> 
> ok no clue how to post youtube on this site...sorry about that.


Yeah that's not ruddering...he's definitely using that front foot to steer the board - not kicking out his back foot and twisting his body around to steer. I think what you think of as "ruddering" isn't the same as what most people here do. It's not a teachable technique and is definitely considered a bad habit.


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## GOskiLF_bum (Feb 5, 2013)

radiomuse210 said:


> Yeah that's not ruddering...he's definitely using that front foot to steer the board - not kicking out his back foot and twisting his body around to steer. I think what you think of as "ruddering" isn't the same as what most people here do. It's not a teachable technique and is definitely considered a bad habit.


ok bad choice of words on my end then. thanks for clearing that one up. i was viewing the ruddering of a board the same as the windshield wiping turns.


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## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

Get some good lessons!!! It is very apparent you have very poor form...ur stinky butt, counter balanced, stiff legged and have no awarness of your upper body alignment....and it also seems to me have a too narrow and knocked knee stance...and you do not know how to use your lower body to move into turns. You are not stacked, nor aligned and your body parts are flying outside of the box. Get back on a bunny hill and develope/establish some good form and then go from there.


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## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

GOskiLF_bum said:


> who's digging now? look, this is a difference of opinion. but perhaps this would help:
> 
> www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_7FH6EE5YY
> 
> ok no clue how to post youtube on this site...sorry about that.


OP has no business being on the steeps of this vid. The guy riding in the vid is at a completely different level and the skills he is using are waaay beyond OP's current level.


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## GOskiLF_bum (Feb 5, 2013)

wrathfuldeity said:


> OP has no business being on the steeps of this vid. The guy riding in the vid is at a completely different level and the skills he is using are waaay beyond OP's current level.


you're absolutely right and now I'm understanding the confusion. This is NOT the video I intended to post. I have no clue what the hell happened but this is the one I was hoping to post: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q4RyLN7C5X4

It should be how to ride moguls from snowprofessor. it looked like the OP was in moguls or bumps of some kind from the video, which is why i was hoping for this video and not the steeps video.


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## flipstah (Feb 3, 2015)

wrathfuldeity said:


> Get some good lessons!!! It is very apparent you have very poor form...ur stinky butt, counter balanced, stiff legged and have no awarness of your upper body alignment....and it also seems to me have a too narrow and knocked knee stance...and you do not know how to use your lower body to move into turns. You are not stacked, nor aligned and your body parts are flying outside of the box. Get back on a bunny hill and develope/establish some good form and then go from there.


Can you explain most of the terminologies you used?

Have no idea what you said in some sentences.


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## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

flipstah said:


> Can you explain most of the terminologies you used?
> 
> Have no idea what you said in some sentences.


Yes I could explain and I understand that you have no idea of the concepts (and neither did I for the first few years...and don't do what I did...not take lessons....TAKE LESSONS!!!). Perhaps one day I will do a little utube demo for newbs because it would be easier to show you....but unfortunately I gots no time nor brain cells for the next few weeks. However, you are encouraged to do some searches here, on the webz, youtube and bookstore/library.


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## flipstah (Feb 3, 2015)

wrathfuldeity said:


> Yes I could explain and I understand that you have no idea of the concepts (and neither did I for the first few years...and don't do what I did...not take lessons....TAKE LESSONS!!!). Perhaps one day I will do a little utube demo for newbs because it would be easier to show you....but unfortunately I gots no time nor brain cells for the next few weeks. However, you are encouraged to do some searches here, on the webz, youtube and bookstore/library.


I'm going to check the stickies and start from there. Thanks


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## jtg (Dec 11, 2012)

most importantly, do not make us listen to backstreet boys


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## flipstah (Feb 3, 2015)

jtg said:


> most importantly, do not make us listen to backstreet boys


Everything can be improved but that, I can't guarantee.

How about some 5ive or AQUA instead? Vengaboys? :hairy:


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## jtg (Dec 11, 2012)

flipstah said:


> Everything can be improved but that, I can't guarantee.
> 
> How about some 5ive or AQUA instead? Vengaboys? :hairy:


sounds like what you really need are some skis or snowblades


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

jtg said:


> sounds like what you really need are some skis or snowblades


...and make sure your clothing/gear is fully color-matched.


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## flipstah (Feb 3, 2015)

jtg said:


> sounds like what you really need are some skis or snowblades


NOOOOOO! 

Fine, I'll step up my music game.


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## chomps1211 (Mar 30, 2011)

flipstah said:


> Can you explain most of the terminologies you used?
> 
> Have no idea what you said in some sentences.


Might help if you listed exactly which terms are confusing you. 

"Stinky Butt?" I believe that's in reference to your being all bent over at the waist with your butt hangin' out past your heel edge. Like you're about to drop a Deuce! Hence,.. Stinky butt. 

Stacked? Counter balanced? This happens when you're not balanced with your weight and body position properly centered over the board. Lots of things involved in getting this wrong. Bent to far at the waist, riding too far in the back seat, very straight, stiff legged stance. Essentially, it means your body's center of gravity and balance is everywhere but centered over your board. 

So you compensate for this with counter rotating in the upper body, with extreme movements of arms and shoulders to help initiate & recover from turns and riding over bumpy, variable terrain. 

You have obviously been riding awhile and while you do manage to ride that terrain without too much trouble,..? Some "fix-it" lessons to help correct improper technique can make navigating the same terrain easier, less tiring, and speed up/further your progression. 

So Wrath,.. Did I get that about right? :hairy: As usual, if I'm way off? Feel free to ridicule and correct my mistakes!  :laugh:


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## flipstah (Feb 3, 2015)

chomps1211 said:


> Might help if you listed exactly which terms are confusing you.
> 
> "Stinky Butt?" I believe that's in reference to your being all bent over at the waist with your butt hangin' out past your heel edge. Like you're about to drop a Deuce! Hence,.. Stinky butt.
> 
> ...


Thanks for that. Yes, I have no trouble in groomers and moguls but on really steep terrain (blacks/double blacks), everything goes down the drain.

I want to be decent at this and having proper technique is key so I'm definitely heading back up on the bunny hill and figure things out. 

I'll have to adjust my bindings too as I have a tendency of buckling my knees in which is uncomortable and from what I've seen in videos, a no-no. 

Also, I want a quieter upper body for better footage. I don't like this swinging nonsense.


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

flipstah said:


> Also, I want a quieter upper body for better footage. I don't like this swinging nonsense.


You should want a quiet upper for better technique and possibly avoiding serious injury if you're doing blacks and doubles........ NOT for better footage.

But yeah... the skiers army could use a good soldier.


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## flipstah (Feb 3, 2015)

F1EA said:


> You should want a quiet upper for better technique and possibly avoiding serious injury if you're doing blacks and doubles........ NOT for better footage.
> 
> But yeah... the skiers army could use a good soldier.


Well of course but my comment just goes hand in hand. I will get better and make the snowboard legion proud.


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## t21 (Dec 29, 2010)

flipstah said:


> Well of course but my comment just goes hand in hand. I will get better and make the snowboard legion proud.


good, for the sake of the flips! :hairy:.


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

flipstah said:


> Fine, I'll step up my music game.





flipstah said:


> Well of course but my comment just goes hand in hand. I will get better and make the snowboard legion proud.


Ok. In the meantime... the Snowboard Police has their eyes on you.


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