# East coast aggressive rider looking for a all mountain fast board



## Deftones882 (Sep 27, 2012)

I have been riding for many years. I ride mostly on the east coast so I have to deal with ice. I have a gnu space case for park riding already and am looking for a great all mountain board that has good speed behind it as well as stable riding. I have a lib tech trs 2012 which I think is amazing but it has a excluded base which I feel is slowing me down but it rides awesome. I really want something like the trs but faster. I am considering a new trs cause of the TNT base also have been looking into the lib tech pheonix series. Like the slash atv reviews a lot but I am afraid it's too geared at park. K2 turbo dream got me going but I hear its a power board. Side note I am 6'3" 220 pounds. I ride very hard and fast. Please help i have been killing myself with research trying to find the right board.


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## Lamps (Sep 3, 2011)

Deftones882 said:


> I have been riding for many years. I ride mostly on the east coast so I have to deal with ice. I have a gnu space case for park riding already and am looking for a great all mountain board that has good speed behind it as well as stable riding. I have a lib tech trs 2012 which I think is amazing but it has a excluded base which I feel is slowing me down but it rides awesome. I really want something like the trs but faster. I am considering a new trs cause of the TNT base also have been looking into the lib tech pheonix series. Like the slash atv reviews a lot but I am afraid it's too geared at park. K2 turbo dream got me going but I hear its a power board. Side note I am 6'3" 220 pounds. I ride very hard and fast. Please help i have been killing myself with research trying to find the right board.


 Burton custom X is a classic choice for going fast - as a bigger guy the stiffness may also help. Keep it sharp and it has good edge hold even on ice. 

Otherwise maybe something with magnetraction.


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## Sudden_Death (Mar 23, 2011)

Smokin' KT22 would be worth a look, burly and has mag for the ice.

Edit: You can also get it in regular or hybrid camber.


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## timmytimmytimmy (Feb 19, 2013)

The Jones All Mountain does very well in the East Coast. I have been using it here and it holds up particularly well on ice. It may not be the best board for 'hard and fast' but it's a great all-round board that holds up at high speeds.


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## Deftones882 (Sep 27, 2012)

I was looking into a burton custom x hardcore when I bought my lib. I am just concerned about it handling the ice. Magnatraction is pretty much necessary on the ice coast. It does seem like a kick ass board though. This smokin kt22 looks really good def going to have to look into it more. Never even heard of the brand before so it's pretty cool to see a new option. I remember reading something about the jones board and the carbon making it shitty as far as choppyness goes. Do u ride a jones?


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## Mystery2many (Aug 14, 2013)

My Never Summer SL hauls serious ass and holds a better edge on the ice coast then all the magna traction boards I have rode. And it's a confidence builder due to how stable it is and how well it ride.


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## Deftones882 (Sep 27, 2012)

One of my good friends rides a proto ct. I rode it last year once and really liked the way it handles. My biggest complaint about it and his too after riding my board is the chatter on that thing. It rides really nice but it's def choppier than my trs. Other than that awesome riding board! How is the sl though in your opinion as far as that goes? They don't have magnatraction but they have something in there that makes it nice and grippy on ice. I hear that the sl is def leaning more toward all mountain and the proto being a all mountain board geared at park too. So many choices makes this super hard to decide.


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## Lamps (Sep 3, 2011)

I ride mostly at blue mountain Ontario where we seem to have more ice than snow and I find that burton's cambered boards (at least the ones I've ridden) handle the ice we have here pretty well as long as you keep them sharp. 

I can't imagine that there's any board out there that you would say to yourself, 'wicked, there's tons of ice, gonna take my never summer Zamboni and kill it today'. :laugh:

I was out at whistler last year and from mid mountain down one day it was a sheet of ice as it had rained overnight and then froze as the temp fall that morning. My buddy rode a custom X and I had a Vapor and we were tracking very well, and reasonably comfortably compared to some others riding with us on non cambered boards.


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## Mystery2many (Aug 14, 2013)

Deftones882 said:


> One of my good friends rides a proto ct. I rode it last year once and really liked the way it handles. My biggest complaint about it and his too after riding my board is the chatter on that thing. It rides really nice but it's def choppier than my trs. Other than that awesome riding board! How is the sl though in your opinion as far as that goes? They don't have magnatraction but they have something in there that makes it nice and grippy on ice. I hear that the sl is def leaning more toward all mountain and the proto being a all mountain board geared at park too. So many choices makes this super hard to decide.


I have the proto ct and just bought the HD. They changed the profile on HD to cut down on chatter without sacrificing the more playful ride. I love my SL and I compare its ride to driving a Cadillac. It's a strong smooth ride with excellent edge hold on ice. It's rocker in the middle has a good flex for pressing and butters and the damp camber outside the binding makes it real lively when I hook turns and ride trees or hauling ass trying to beat a friend.


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## BigmountainVMD (Oct 9, 2011)

Where do you ride out east? Sugarloaf for me. I feel you on the need for some sort of ice grip tech. Magnatraction on Lib/Gnu and vario on the NS boards are my favorites, and hold the best in my opinion.

The TNT base on the current TRS is still an extruded base I believe. The GNU Riders Choice is very similar but slightly higher end. It has a sintered base and similar flex profile as the TRS. If you wanted to go stiffer, you could look at the T. Rice (esp if you have size 12+ feet).

Do you want a twin board for riding switch? Otherwise I would look at a directional board.


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## Deftones882 (Sep 27, 2012)

I'm in Vermont a lot and like once a year ill make a west coast trip. I thought the TNT base is super fast? Like faster than even sinthered maybe I'm wrong but that's what I always thought. I think the tnt just needs to be waxed all the time? well if anyone knows for sure that answer please chime in. I don't ride switch much so a directional would be fine with me. Gnu rider choice is def a good board I don't know if you can say its higher end over the trs. To me they seem very identical to each other. My trs maxes out at 55-60 mph that's pushing the shit out of it can not go any faster which sucks cause it's such a great ride it feels like you are riding too slow. Now the t rice is another great board! But I feel like its geared more toward park although it is supposed to be a aggressive ass board. I really liked the idea of the t rice right awsy but def feared it was too parkish and would loss the all mountain agresive feel. I've been reading there are a few salomans out there that move like hell but are choppy.


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## Deftones882 (Sep 27, 2012)

Sudden_Death said:


> Smokin' KT22 would be worth a look, burly and has mag for the ice.
> 
> Edit: You can also get it in regular or hybrid camber.


Sudden death I saw u post about the smokin boards which was pretty cool cause I never heard of them and you were right out of there whole line the kt22 would be best for me. But is this board more for a powder oriented rider? That's the vibe I got off it but it does have magnatraction so idk. And cause u made a good suggestion I looked into some of your past stuff and I saw you talking about the signal UNO. U really think that thing rides like a SL? If so amazing deal! I'm not cheap but if its really comparable I'm all about saving a buck or two


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## Sudden_Death (Mar 23, 2011)

The full camber KT22 would rip up anything the East could throw at it, the hybrid would offer more float. I had the MIP which is one of their softer park boards and now I'm riding the Mailorder Bride. They aren't making it anymore but it is similar to the Superpark only flat camber. It eats up ice, and if I can get a deal at the end of this year I hope to grab the KT22. The Status Uno is pretty much the SL. Same specs, made in the same factory just with I think a couple less features and different name/graphics. If you can find one in your size it would be a good choice. Way more playful than the Smokin' or the T. Rice but not as aggressive.


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## bseracka (Nov 14, 2011)

pm Argo he can share a lot of details about the kt22 and smokin in general.


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## SnowDragon (Apr 23, 2012)

Deftones882 said:


> I'm in Vermont a lot and like once a year ill make a west coast trip. I thought the TNT base is super fast? Like faster than even sinthered maybe I'm wrong but that's what I always thought. I think the tnt just needs to be waxed all the time? well if anyone knows for sure that answer please chime in. I don't ride switch much so a directional would be fine with me. Gnu rider choice is def a good board I don't know if you can say its higher end over the trs. To me they seem very identical to each other. My trs maxes out at 55-60 mph that's pushing the shit out of it can not go any faster which sucks cause it's such a great ride it feels like you are riding too slow. Now the t rice is another great board! But I feel like its geared more toward park although it is supposed to be a aggressive ass board. I really liked the idea of the t rice right awsy but def feared it was too parkish and would loss the all mountain agresive feel. I've been reading there are a few salomans out there that move like hell but are choppy.


I think you've got a lot of this backward.
The TRS is more parkish than the TRice. The TRice is definitely the more aggressive board.

Sintered bases are faster than TNT bases, and have to be waxed frequently.

Yes, The Salomon Burner is a very fast board. If you want more twinish, the XLT is a very good fast board. The edge hold might not be enough for you though.

From reading your riding description, I'd suggest the new Rossignol XV.
Xavier de la Rue's new board has got to be damn aggressive. AND it has magnetraction for edge grip.:thumbsup:
I think you should look into that.


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## BigmountainVMD (Oct 9, 2011)

GreyDragon said:


> I think you've got a lot of this backward.
> The TRS is more parkish than the TRice. The TRice is definitely the more aggressive board.
> 
> Sintered bases are faster than TNT bases, and have to be waxed frequently


Yes... what he said.


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## Fewdfreak (May 13, 2013)

TRS has TNT base which is NOT a sintered base. Lib touts it as a step up from an extruded but not needing to be waxed like a sintered bc it is infused with flouro compounds to make it go fast without the need to wax. I like to wax so I go with sintered and I feel they are faster when I am pushing to the max than the extruded counterparts I have rode. Plus they sail though the flats and I hate getting slowed down in the flats. I was trying to decide between the TRS narrow vs the B pro last year and they were very similar boards (TRS graphics were sweeter tho) and I went for the B pro bc of the sintered base and I kept hearing TNT could be slow on some years. Since you already have the TRS which they claim is the fastest unwaxed base I'd try something new and see how that does but keep in mind if you do get a sintered base you will need to wax it to get that top performance.


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## hktrdr (Apr 3, 2012)

GreyDragon said:


> I think you've got a lot of this backward.
> The TRS is more parkish than the TRice. The TRice is definitely the more aggressive board.
> 
> Sintered bases are faster than TNT bases, and have to be waxed frequently.
> ...


+1 on pretty much all of that.

And the TRS has had the TNT base pretty much forever - the OP's current deck has it as well. And yes, it is an extruded base but that does not really limit top speed - if you cannot get the deck over 60mph it is a technique issue, not a limitation of the board.


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## poutanen (Dec 22, 2011)

Deftones882 said:


> Magnatraction is pretty much necessary on the ice coast.


How many BX/race boards have magnetraction?!? :dunno:

Personal preference, but I'd think that if it's so good, all the race boards would have it now. They're moving a lot faster and need better edge hold on ice/hardpack than us!


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## BigmountainVMD (Oct 9, 2011)

poutanen said:


> How many BX/race boards have magnetraction?!? :dunno:
> 
> Personal preference, but I'd think that if it's so good, all the race boards would have it now. They're moving a lot faster and need better edge hold on ice/hardpack than us!


I agree, but how many BXers only sharpen their edges once or twice a season like most casual snowboarders? The grip tech shines because it doesn't need to be sharpened nearly as much and can hold an edge when dull relative to a BX camber board.


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## poutanen (Dec 22, 2011)

BigmountainVMD said:


> I agree, but how many BXers only sharpen their edges once or twice a season like most casual snowboarders? The grip tech shines because it doesn't need to be sharpened nearly as much and can hold an edge when dull relative to a BX camber board.


So then we agree: a sharp cambered board holds on ice better than the alternatives!!! :yahoo:


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## hktrdr (Apr 3, 2012)

poutanen said:


> So then we agree: a sharp cambered board holds on ice better than the alternatives!!! :yahoo:


No, do not agree. It is just that a sharp cambered board has *good enough* edge hold for BX and that the slight negative of MTX et. (essentially some loss of speed) matters much more for racers than for casual rider, so adding any sort of grip/edge technology is *not worth the trade-off* - unlike for the vast majority of recreational riders.


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## poutanen (Dec 22, 2011)

Then why aren't hockey skates made with similar styles? Surely the grip level for a hockey player is more important than any slight speed reduction...

I just don't buy the claimed physics of it.

What happened to that review video on a hockey rink? Can't remember the outcome but I thought it was sort of interesting.


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## Bparmz (Sep 7, 2011)

poutanen said:


> Then why aren't hockey skates made with similar styles? Surely the grip level for a hockey player is more important than any slight speed reduction...
> 
> I just don't buy the claimed physics of it.
> 
> What happened to that review video on a hockey rink? Can't remember the outcome but I thought it was sort of interesting.


Here it is.

Snowboard Edge Test - Ice Breakers - YouTube

Pretty fun and interesting to watch.


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## BigmountainVMD (Oct 9, 2011)

Oh yes. That amazing test that had practically no scientific method whatsoever. Different boards of different lengths/effective edges with different weight riders with different skills. Oh yeah... on an outdoor ice rink... so the properties of the ice change as the temperature changes... and they were being pulled by a slingshot... which pulls people of different weights at different speeds... resulting in different momentums... and different lengths to stop.

I don't want to start that other thread again... but can we at least agree that results of this test should be viewed in the same light as a demented bum telling you that eating dog meat makes your muscles stronger and your dick bigger?


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## SnowDragon (Apr 23, 2012)

All this science is making my head hurt.:dizzy:

Can't we go back to "the board slides good"?:thumbsup:


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## snowklinger (Aug 30, 2011)

BigmountainVMD said:


> Oh yes. That amazing test that had practically no scientific method whatsoever. Different boards of different lengths/effective edges with different weight riders with different skills. Oh yeah... on an outdoor ice rink... so the properties of the ice change as the temperature changes... and they were being pulled by a slingshot... which pulls people of different weights at different speeds... resulting in different momentums... and different lengths to stop.
> 
> I don't want to start that other thread again... but can we at least agree that results of this test should be viewed in the same light as a demented bum telling you that eating dog meat makes your muscles stronger and your dick bigger?


no wonder my dick isn't getting bigger


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## Lamps (Sep 3, 2011)

poutanen said:


> Then why aren't hockey skates made with similar styles? Surely the grip level for a hockey player is more important than any slight speed reduction...
> 
> I just don't buy the claimed physics of it.
> 
> What happened to that review video on a hockey rink? Can't remember the outcome but I thought it was sort of interesting.


Skating happens on the edge on generally flat surface.


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## BigmountainVMD (Oct 9, 2011)

Here is a thought: What would you rather use to cut through a frozen piece of meat?


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## Lamps (Sep 3, 2011)

BigmountainVMD said:


> Here is a thought: What would you rather use to cut through a frozen piece of meat?


A freshly sharpened burton custom X. :laugh:


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## BigmountainVMD (Oct 9, 2011)

Lamps said:


> A freshly sharpened burton custom X. :laugh:


:eusa_clap:


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## poutanen (Dec 22, 2011)

BigmountainVMD said:


> Here is a thought: What would you rather use to cut through a frozen piece of meat?


That's the thing, I don't care about cutting through it, I only want to grip the meat... lol

Now what would I want to grip the meat? 7 separate pieces of edge about 10 cm long, or one continuous 125 cm edge?

I think it would be interesting to have a machine setup to test the theories at different angles (and sharpness of the boards). There would be an angled area covered in ice/hardpack, and a machine that would try to push the board sideways along the ice at a given angle. You'd then measure how much force it took to push the board.


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## BigmountainVMD (Oct 9, 2011)

poutanen said:


> That's the thing, I don't care about cutting through it, I only want to grip the meat... lol
> 
> Now what would I want to grip the meat? 7 separate pieces of edge about 10 cm long, or one continuous 125 cm edge?
> 
> I think it would be interesting to have a machine setup to test the theories at different angles (and sharpness of the boards). There would be an angled area covered in ice/hardpack, and a machine that would try to push the board sideways along the ice at a given angle. You'd then measure how much force it took to push the board.


They have a test similar to that for climbing shoe rubber. The put a standardized weight on a piece of the rubber and tilt the given surface until the rubber slips. The rubbers than can handle higher angles are generally "more sticky."


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## poutanen (Dec 22, 2011)

BigmountainVMD said:


> They have a test similar to that for climbing shoe rubber. The put a standardized weight on a piece of the rubber and tilt the given surface until the rubber slips. The rubbers than can handle higher angles are generally "more sticky."


Yeah exactly! There's got to be a fairly easy way to build the same type of thing to test snowboard edges. Trouble is to truly test JUST the edge technology, you'd need identical boards except for the edge tech. As far as I know nothing exists that are identical...


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## AWNOW (Sep 12, 2009)

Outside of being afraid of change, I have never understood why people hate magne traction type edges. I ride decks with traditional edges, but when I have had serrated edges on demos and such, they hold the fuck out of a turn. It always seemed obvious to me. :dunno:


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## poutanen (Dec 22, 2011)

AWNOW said:


> Outside of being afraid of change, I have never understood why people hate magne traction type edges. I ride decks with traditional edges, but when I have had serrated edges on demos and such, they hold the fuck out of a turn. It always seemed obvious to me. :dunno:


Here's a great way to increase power and save fuel in your car/truck!

Tornado Air :: More Power, More Mileage!

edit:
http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/2012/01/gas-saving-devices-tested/index.htm

My point is that claims and theory are just that, until there are OBJECTIVE results to help prove/disprove otherwise.

I believe they are a gimmick, and I believe that people are getting a "seat of the pants" effect based on the fact that they THINK it holds better. Unfortunately without objective data, it's just a guess. People put K&N air filters and exhausts on their cars and they FEEL faster. They take them to the dyno to find that they have gained nothing and sometimes lost power.

FWIW, this isn't an attack on anybody, just a healthy debate!


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## BigmountainVMD (Oct 9, 2011)

poutanen said:


> Yeah exactly! There's got to be a fairly easy way to build the same type of thing to test snowboard edges. Trouble is to truly test JUST the edge technology, you'd need identical boards except for the edge tech. As far as I know nothing exists that are identical...


The only thing I could think of would be something in the lib lineup with normal mag vs. mellow mag. That could be a start. 

I think as long as the effective edges were the same, you could come to some conclusions. But it would always be "Lib C2BTX with Mag holds better than X hybrid camber with whatever edge tech and Y hybrid camber with whatever."

This could totally be done, but it would take more time and money than any of us care to throw at it. I could see it happening with some good carpentry skills, some weights, and a day in an ice factory.


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## poutanen (Dec 22, 2011)

BigmountainVMD said:


> I think as long as the effective edges were the same, you could come to some conclusions. But it would always be "Lib C2BTX with Mag holds better than X hybrid camber with whatever edge tech and Y hybrid camber with whatever."
> 
> This could totally be done, but it would take more time and money than any of us care to throw at it. I could see it happening with some good carpentry skills, some weights, and a day in an ice factory.


I almost think you could have a sort of mythbusters setup just using a piece of stock steel. Both would be the same length, but one you would cut out "teeth" so that only about 1/2 the edge touched the surface. Of course there's a couple different tests you would want to do.

One would simply drag the edge sideways on the ice, and measure how much force it takes to drag it. Another would be to run the edge along the ice to create a "groove" and then try to force it sideways and see which one holds more. If libs theory is right it should create a deeper groove with the same amount of force applied.

I think you hit the nail on the head with effective edge. This is where I think the BX board shines. For a 160 cm board they have 140+ cm of effective edge. When I went from a stiff 159 cm cambered traditional shape board (with 125 cm effective edge) to a stiff 160 cm cambered bx shape board, the difference wasn't noticeable. It was UNREAL... :blink:

Timmy tard tried my board but unfortunately it was a slushy raining Vancouver day, and he said it felt like any other board. On hardpack, there's no way a traditional shaped board with any edge tech is going to keep up with it!

Let the battle of subjectivity commence!!!


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## hktrdr (Apr 3, 2012)

poutanen said:


> I almost think you could have a sort of mythbusters setup just using a piece of stock steel. Both would be the same length, but one you would cut out "teeth" so that only about 1/2 the edge touched the surface. Of course there's a couple different tests you would want to do.
> 
> One would simply drag the edge sideways on the ice, and measure how much force it takes to drag it. Another would be to run the edge along the ice to create a "groove" and then try to force it sideways and see which one holds more. If libs theory is right it should create a deeper groove with the same amount of force applied.
> 
> ...


The 'ice test' misses an important part of of how and why Magnetraction works: One of the key ideas and selling points is that the board still has edge hold when not the entire edge is in contact with the snow (e.g., because of uneven/bumpy terrain, board flex or twist, etc.).


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