# avy packs



## Justin

Started looking for an airbag back pack. I am liking the mammut so far due to the fact that if i want to use different packs i can just buy a different sized pack and move the system.

Anything that i should be aware of when buying or are these not really going to help? I have taken the 1st avy course and might take the second. I am not planning on ending up in a slide but $1000 to live seems reasonable if they work.


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## DrnknZag

I've started looking at avy pack as well by request of my girlfriend. I've narrowed my choice down to the ABS Vario, Mystery Ranch Blackjack, BCA Float 32, and North Face Patrol 24 ABS.

IIRC, there are three or four main manufacturers: ABS, Snowpulse, Avyvest, and I think BCA. The Mammut packs you're looking at use the Snowpulse system. North Face uses ABS, and Mystery Ranch uses Avyvest. BCA I believe makes their own, but I'm not 100% sure.

I haven't read much about the Mammut packs, other than they use Snowpulse technology. Being able to switch bag sizes is pretty a pretty nice option, although I believe the Mammut bags just have a removable airbag section that you can stick in other bags, so you technically are still buying another backpack.

The ABS Vario packs have a much better system IMO, where airbag is in the base unit, and you can zip on separate bag sizes. There's a reason you see most pros with ABS packs, they're very well made and I believe have been around the longest perfecting their technology. The only problem I find with the ABS packs is their price and availability in North America. The base unit and canister will run you close to $1100, then closer to $1300 once you get a bag on it. I have yet to find a vendor that sells a large variety of the zip on packs, which in my mind defeats the purpose of being able to switch bag sizes. I'm hoping more vendors will have product available this year. REI and Backcountry have been known to have some, but not a huge selection.

BCA definitely has the best priced packs in the states. Pretty much under $750 out the door for the Float 32. I HATE their packs though. I just don't find them comfortable at all. I'm hoping that's changed with the brand new Float 32 though since I have a buddy with a BCA proform which would get me in under $600.

Mystery Ranch definitely intrigues me. Their pack looks awesome, but the overall weight of the pack is keeping me from buying it already. It's got a really sweet frame and is super customizable (which probably doesn't help the weight). It's a 43L pack, so it's big enough for longer tours, but compresses down very nicely. I really really like this pack, but the weight still bugs me.

An airbag isn't a replacement for extensive avy training and knowing what you're doing. Nor should it give you more confidence when riding in sketchy terrain. Same goes for the Avalung (which I ride with too). But it does give you one more out if the shit does hit the fan.

Anyway, check out wildsnow.com, they've done a ton of reviews on airbag packs.


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## killclimbz

The Mammut packs appear to me to be the best tailored towards backcountry riders. Designed so that you can carry your board in split or together mode. Being able to swap out the system is nice. In reality, I am not so sure how handy that will be. I can see it being useful for hut trips, but I am not sold that their large pack is appropriate enough for that sort of thing. On top of that, on hut trips, riding with a large pack just sucks. I know that I always bring a smaller "sidecountry" style pack with me for hut trip laps. Maybe that is the way to go, a smaller pack you can bring on those trips. I'll be rocking the 30 this year.

Airbags work, I have no doubt about that. If I had to choose between having a beacon or an airbag, I'd probably take my chances with the airbag. They have had a much better success rate with live recoveries than beacons have ever had. Not that I am going to do that, but it's worth noting. 

A bit of advice on the avy course thing. Get at least a season or two under your belt before going for your level II, if you haven't already. Level II is great, but so many people take it right after their Level I. They have no boot to the ground experience. You need some of that. The Level I course taught you everything you need to know to travel safely in the backcountry. There is nothing new in the Level II that is going to make it easier. You will get some heightened awareness to problems that aren't discussed in the Level I. It might allow you to make the choice to ride something you wouldn't have, but it's just as likely to make you back off.


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## killclimbz

I should note that I have a lot of friends who have airbag packs. The Mammut owners are by far the most happy with how the bag carries and deploys.


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## DrnknZag

killclimbz said:


> I should note that I have a lot of friends who have airbag packs. The Mammut owners are by far the most happy with how the bag carries and deploys.


Good to know....the Mammut packs were one of the few I couldn't find a lot of first hand reviews on.


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## killclimbz

I think the other point is all of the airbag manufacturer's packs work. ABS has been around the longest so they have the most success stories. Personally I like the bags that surround your head, not that I would not use an ABS pack. They are quality.


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## Justin

Thanks for all the info guys. Hut trips are deffinitaly in the picture. We are already planning one for january so maybe i should go with a smaller pack? I was hoping to get 2 bags so that i would always have the airbag available. Seems kind of stupid to buy one and then store it in a bigger pack:dunno:

If i were just to get one pack and bring it along for a hut trip what size would you recommend? Just a general range, as i am not sold on one brand yet. I will need to try some on. I will be doing day trips and one resort i ride at has some inbounds terrain that requires avy gear so i would probably use it there as well.

Yeah i defintally need more experience, the only reason i was thinking about taking it soon was the company that i went through says you have to take them within a year of each other. I figuired it was probably just to get you to sign up but was unsure. A couple of people have told me now just to wait. I have some friends and friends of friends that have experience so i will be tagging along this year.


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## killclimbz

Well here is what I was sort of thinking. Generally speaking on hut trips, the skin in doesn't have a ton of avalanche danger. Well at least in the states. I know in Canada, there are times when you are exposed for an hour or more. Which I fine terrifying. Anyway, it looks like the largest airbag pack you can get is a 45 liter pack from Mammut. I don't know about you, but that is rather small. My hut pack is a 55 liter pack with an additional 20 liter removable pack. Even then, I find that stuff can be crammed for just a two night hut trip. Though you could probably get away with riding with a 45 liter pack all cinched up when your overnight gear is stashed in the hut. 

I find a 30 liter pack to be about perfect for your typical day trip use. Lets you carry what you need but also not so large. That is your everyday pack in the Mammut line up. Then maybe instead of going with the 45 liter pack, you might want to get the 22 liter sidecountry pack as your second. Then use a regular large pack to hump your stuff in and just clip or strap down that pack on the outside. If you are clever enough, you can probably use it to hump some extra items in while it's attached to you pack. Maybe stash the cartridge and bag in you main pack, that sort of thing. Then once there use that pack as your tour pack. 

Again, this depends on where you are going. The Canadian hut trip can be a hell of a lot different than the Colorado experience. In my region, once you get to the hut, most of the stuff you ride is fairly close. At a hut like Janet's Cabin some of the best stuff lets you lap right by the hut. So it's do a run, skin back to the hut, eat some soup, warm up, then skin back up to the ridge, lather, rinse, repeat. Most of them offer this in some way or the other. You are not out on all day tours, so not as much extra gear needs to be carried. It could be totally different where you are going. I would check with your experienced buddies and see what they think.


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## Justin

awesome, thanks for all the great info. I will pop into mec and try some different brands on, and check with some freinds. Thanks for all the help.


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## DrnknZag

Has anyone had any experience with the Mystery Ranch Blackjack pack? I'm really leaning towards this pack, even though it's the heaviest of the bunch. Mystery Ranch is known for making some of the most bombproof packs of any company out there, and I really like the fact that they are hand made in the USA. One of the main reasons I like the Blackjack is how customizable the fit is, and I've heard it carries incredibly well. That is what probably brings up the weight of the pack though. Another reason I'm liking it is it's versatility. It looks like it compresses very well for a 42L pack, and is large enough for longer trips. The airbag is also removable to give you a really nice backpacking pack for the summer. Anyway, has anyone had their hands on one?


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## ShredLife

Avalanche Airbag Backpack Overview - The Backcountry Skiing Blog

fairly complete comparison chart...good article


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## DrnknZag

ShredLife said:


> Avalanche Airbag Backpack Overview - The Backcountry Skiing Blog
> 
> fairly complete comparison chart...good article


Yeah, definitely a great link....I've gotten most of my airbag knowledge from those reviews.


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## killclimbz

I believe Mystery Ranch has a quality product. They have been testing their stuff for years. There is a hilarious thread on TGR where they have pics from their product testing with dummies. A few of their charges to set off avalanches were dropped a little too close to the dummies. Good stuff.


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## DrnknZag

^^From everything I've heard, Dana has an excellent reputation for his packs over the years. I haven't seen that thread on TGR, I'll have to look for it this afternoon. I'm still a little weary of a heavier pack though.


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## killclimbz

Is it Dana from Dana Designs? That dude definitely knows how to design a bomber, well thought out pack.


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## DrnknZag

One in the same, I believe.

I'm so close to pulling the trigger on that pack. I'm still a bit concerned about weight, but then again it's only about a pound heavier than the ABS, or a pound and a half heavier than the BCA.

Price is hanging me up too. I can get the BCA fully equipped for around $600, but the bag isn't very versatile since you can't remove the airbag for other uses. Even though I'd be spending $400 more for the MR pack, I could still use it for other uses.

Any input to help sway my decision, kill?

Gah.


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## ShredLife

just gonna throw this out there - all of these will help to save your life, but only if you're wearing it (obviously). that said, weight is a huge issue for me maybe because i'm only ~150# - especially because these are all about 4+ pounds heavier than a normal pack....

at this time i am leaning towards the Mammur Ridelight RAS 30l then possibly supplementing with a smaller, lighter RAS enabled pack once they release the non-airbag-equipped RAS packs for sale...


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## killclimbz

Hahaha.

Overall, unless price is the hang up, I would go with just about anyone else than BCA. Their track record with quality on their packs these days just sucks. I've seen their new packs and they look nice enough, but I don't know that they will hold up. Blown stitching that sort of thing. Their warranty department is good and they'll fix 'em, but who wants to deal with that? 

The versatility thing. It's nice to have, but I wouldn't make that a deal breaker. You want to buy the pack that you are going to use. I that for over 90% of my bc endeavors, I am going to use one pack. Generally speaking. As far as for cross sport use. I also find that I usually go to something different that is more specific for what I am doing. Again that's me. Plus if you are going to drop that sort of coin on an airbag pack, do you really want to put wear and tear on the pack for other pursuits? Making it wear out quicker? 

If you can, go try on the packs you are interested in. The MR pack may weigh more but it may also carry a ton better. Load it up and try it on. If it carries better, it's worth the extra pound of weight. I know that is a really key thing about the Mammut packs. They carry their loads quite well.


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## linvillegorge

I just don't trust Mammut. I had one of their shovels (key word being "had") and the t-handle snapped off of it on about the 3rd use. Lost my faith in them right then and there. It's just unacceptable for virtually brand new safety/rescue gear to fail like that. It wasn't even like I was dogging on it. I was just digging a quick pit.


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## killclimbz

Hmmm, I haven't used any of their avy tools, but Mammut is a company with a very good rep with safety gear. Used tons of their ropes over the years for climbing, their beacons are excellent. Most every one I know prefers their airbag packs. It's what I am planning on rocking this year.

Weird for a shovel to do that. Did you contact them about it?


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## ShredLife

.... and arguably the best climbing ropes in the game...

every company now makes shovels that are unacceptable to be in any BC pack


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## linvillegorge

killclimbz said:


> Weird for a shovel to do that. Did you contact them about it?


Nah, didn't even bother. Just bought another one. Pretty sure it's a Black Diamond.


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## killclimbz

If you still have the shovel, I'd contact them. 

For one, I'm sure they'd like to know.

Second, they'll probably replace it. Never bad to have an extra avy shovel or two. If anything, it is a great thing to have in the trunk of your car. That is where one of mine reside. Used it to dig myself free a few times.


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## linvillegorge

True. I'll check and see if I still have it laying around. Not sure that I do.


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## hikeswithdogs

I WISH I could afford a ABS pack this season, all of our money is tied up in our move back to Utah. I think I'm gonna have to stick to my avalung for another season and hope for a more stable snowpack than the nightmare most of us experienced last year.

Any chance they come down in price further by this time next year?


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## killclimbz

Prices are dropping. You might see them for $100 less next year. Give it 3-5 years and I think most will settle into the $600-$700 range. Maybe BCA will get their packs under $400. Hard to say. The more people buy into them the more likely prices will drop. Of course beacons have been pretty stagnant at that $300 range for years now.


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## ShredLife

beacon prices have gone up, along with the tech - some of it useful, some of it just bells and whistles that shouldn't be on a beacon.

i'd love to see the prices come down on these... enough manufacturers are making them now that it tells me they're making $ at it, not just offering airbags to be one of the only ones doing it.

in europe and asia airbag tech is used in consumer motorcycle crash gear at the price of $400 a jacket... as it is snowboarders/skiers already typically pay on the order of 2-4 times the price of a backpack on a jacket - so why are all these packs so much $$$?

- they figure if you have the free time and $ to play in the snow then they can gouge our asses.

- bigger canisters/more air?

- continued r&d and hopefully lighter systems down the road...

- :dunno:


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## killclimbz

I have no idea on the motorcycle jackets. I assume that they are not self deployed though. Sometimes small changes in tech make a big deal in price for the manufacturers and people on down the line. 

Beacons are basically (real basic here) two way radios. The main difference is that two ways are always in receive mode until otherwise used. Beacons are always in transmit mode until otherwise used. Small change, big difference in price.


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## ShredLife

but its more than just that - as i'm sure you know. changes to beacon tech include the move from analog to digital, the advent of multiple burial specific screens and all the stuff that comes with multiburial algorithms or whatever voodoo, plus all the bullshit like digital inclinometers, thermometers, barometers, altimeters, built in bootwarmers and any other -meter you can think of that should be on your suunto not your beacon...


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## killclimbz

Oh I am not dismissing any of that. There is a lot of stuff, which I agree is not needed. The algorithms and such are software programming though. Yeah, it costs money to develop, but it's there is not a specific manufacturing cost. If say beacon manufacturers could by the same parts that two way radios use, the costs would go way down. As that stuffed in made in huge numbers. Having to have tweaked specialty parts certainly drives the costs up for everyone. I am over simplifying this of course. 

I certainly just want a beacon to do one thing, be a beacon.


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## linvillegorge

That's the thing with virtually all electronics. The majority of the cost is in the development. The actual sum of the components usually isn't shit.


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## DrnknZag

BTW, anyone who's interested there's a group buy deal for the Mystery Ranch Blackjack airbag pack over at the TGR Forums.....

Mystery Ranch Group Buy

This sways my decision, I'm going with the MR pack!


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## killclimbz

Just ordered a Mammut RAS 30 liter pack for this season. Will be rocking the airbag in the next week or two.


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## ShredLife

Please post a detailed review when you get it... I'm between that one and the abs but no one stocks the mammut near me...


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## linvillegorge

With all the paper I've been stacking the last few months, it's something I'm gonna look into. Definitely looking smaller than 30L though. I think I'd prefer something more in the neighborhood of 20L. 25L tops.


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## ShredLife

the ones we're talking about here are transferable to different pack setups. so you can buy a 30l and then for another 100-150 bucks you get an 18l or whatever...

i think dakine is making a pack that works with the abs system, there are a bunch of abs packs - all work with the base unit (the airbag). the RAS system is transferable to any other RAS pack (snowpulse/mammut).


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## killclimbz

Why do people think a 30L pack is way too big? All of my bags over the last 10 years have either been 30 or 35 liter. Seems like the perfect day pack size to me and has been for a good number of years.

Shred I'll definitely post up. I probably won't have it until the week after next. Mammut is expecting to have the packs next week and then they'll ship my order. 

I have played with the Mammut packs before. Several friends are rocking them. I know the packs are solid. As far as the airbag, it works like an airbag should. Pull the cord it blows up around your head. Which I like, better protection for the head. Of course the ABS has two bags, which means two bags have to be punctured to lose the float effect. That is not to be underestimated either. RAS or ABS seem to be the two best systems.


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## ShredLife

for any noobs reading - many of the smallest sized shovels being sold today by some companies as snow safety gear are not acceptable for use in the bc. 

G3, Black diamond, voile, i think ortovox and i'm sure others make shovels that have no business in anyone's bc pack as an 'essential' item.

don't get a teeny tiny little bitch shovel just to keep your pack light. get a man's shovel and save a life like a real 'murican hero


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## linvillegorge

Snowolf said:


> I can see the desire for a smaller pack for side country and even close in back country. Riding with a pack sucks plain and simple, so the smaller the pack the more fun it is riding. I keep my pack as small and light as I possibly can. Carry a small stove to melt snow for water instead of carrying a big ass water bladder, keep my essentials as small and light as humanly possible.


My thoughts exactly. Plus, you gotta remember killclimbz, you're a pretty big dude. A 30L pack probably feels quite a bit smaller to you than it does to me.


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## killclimbz

I think most people I go out with are rocking that size. Some no larger than you. They do cinch up quite a bit. Of course for slackcountry riding I would carry something much smaller. I know going out for a day in backcountry, I can't carry what I need to have. Sure I have some items that most people don't want. In addition to the standard avy package, I carry a first aid kit, SAM splint, CPR Mask, a warm layer (micro puffy), extra gloves, extra goggles, plus my food and water. All of that is stuff that I don't always or rarely use, but when you need it, you are awfully glad to have it. Pretty hard to get all of that in a 20 liter pack. Plus skins are going in the pack on the down and they do take up a fair amount of space. Of course those can go in a jacket pocket if it's big enough.


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## DrnknZag

Just placed the order for my Mystery Ranch Blackjack through the TGR group buy. Got it for their proform price, roughly 30% off. I'm pretty stoked, but hopefully I'll NEVER have to use it.

Keep an eye out for an extensive review once I get my hands on it.


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## AdamBQ

I can't imagine riding with anything smaller then a 30l, and if I bring my camera out I really need something bigger. 
How do you guys fit water and food with all the safety gear in an 18l pack? Do you bring layers with you?


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## ShredLife

if i'm just out for the day then i'm barely bringing any food. maybe a small baggie of trailmix and a cliff bar or maybe two cliff bars...

for layering i usually limit it to two smartwool longsleeve tees and a patagonia r1 fleece - _*total*_ including however much of that i am wearing. 

i only bring a puffy on overnight stuff. only exception would be to sub one smartwool tee out for a micro puffy vest of some sort. if its just a day trip usually no extra gloves...

the other thing is the camera - if you're lugging a DSLR out there the time has come to change equipment. look at the sony nex 6 and 7, the olympus em5, fuji xpro1 and other compact systems cameras. these new mirrorless cameras offer up to all but the largest full-frame sensor equivalents in a much, much smaller and lighter package. i can carry mine with the lens attached in a small case on the hipbelt of my backpack and i don't even notice it there riding. really is a game-changer for backcountry photography - you can bring it every time and it doesn't add 5-15lbs of suck to your day. another ground-breaking little camera is the sony rx100 - an very powerful and capable compact that's IQ can rival a DSLR with its 1" sensor.

edit: if you're using a full-frame camera like a canon 5dii or higher or whatever nikon's equivalent is i'd still switch to a mirrorless for hiking, unless you really are a pro photographer and you're getting paid for your images. even then i'd still give it some serious thought. sony's nex system leaves some room for the possibility of a ff nex model in the future.


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## AdamBQ

Yeah I wanna switch my 7D out with the new Canon mirrorless, but Avy pack first. Last year Canon gave me a free T3 (I gave it to my little sis) so I am kind of hoping that maybe I get their new one this year, or at least a smoking deal on it.


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## ShredLife

the canon m falls short of the mark set by the other cameras i mentioned... i'm coming from a 40d and also own a 7d. the 7d has barely gotten use since i got a nex 7...

so many different options and competing specs on these cameras tho - it can be hard to decide which one is right for you... if i was in your spot i think i'd probably sell the 7d for the nex 6 (better af than the nex 7) but i don't know how you use the 7d now... not many downsides to the new mirrorless cams tho.

i think i'm going to get my 7d converted to infrared and keep saving for more nex glass and a fullframe body of some sort next year, and keep my nice canon glass for now...

just so many goddamn options


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## killclimbz

Back on topic here. My Mammut RAS 35 shipped today. Finally. I don't think I'll have it in time for this weekend, but will have it next week. I might be playing hooky Wednesday. Probably going to blow it and get it recharged before I take her out.


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## DrnknZag

My Mystery Ranch Blackjack showed up two weeks ago. Haven't been out in the field with it yet, I'm waiting to find a SCBA shop that'll refill the canister so I can test blow it.

First impressions though.......WOW. This pack is BOMBER. The fit and finish makes my Dakine packs look like they were made my a 2 year old in Indonesia (well, maybe they were). It does feel kinda heavy when lifting it (it's one of the heavier airbag packs) but the weight almost completely disappears once you put it on your back (even when loaded). With the custom fit climbing style frame, it carries very very VERY well. Definitely large enough to fit gear for a hut trip at 42L, but compresses down real nicely if you're just doing sidecountry laps too.

Overall, this pack lives up to Mystery Ranch's and Dana's reputation. Very solid and well built pack. Made in 'Merica, bitches!

I'll get some pictures for you guys and a video of the first test blow......


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## killclimbz

I'd be surprised if any Scuba shop wouldn't refill it. My buddy had to get his airbag filled in Seattle last year after flying in from Denver. I think the first place he went to did it. 

Curious as to when it blows. Are there parts that have to be replaced? For BCA I believe there is an O Ring part that has to be swapped out. For the Mammut System, there is a burst plate. Mystery Ranch have any of that?


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## DrnknZag

Yes, MR sent the pack with a couple o-rings that have to be replaced with each blow.

Kill, are there any spots in Summit County that can refill canisters? I'll be bringing my pack with me to CO, but won't have much time in Denver before heading west.


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## killclimbz

I don't know of any shops in Summit that do it. Here is a map of dive shops in the Denver area.

Pretty sure any of them will do a refill for you. The Underwater Phantaseas place is a fairly quick on/off of I70 heading up towards Summit. Maybe 10 minutes off of the highway, probably not even that far. BA may know of some spots in Summit you can call to see if they'll do it. The other place that could lead you in the right direction is Wilderness Sports in Summit. They sell avalanche gear. I doubt they do refills, but they will probably know where you can get it done. All of the mountaineering shops in Denver quit doing refills because of liability. The fact that they are not certified like dive shops are scared them off. There is also a dive shop close to my house. I am planning on checking with them about doing refills here soon. They would be more out of the way from the airport though than phantaseas is for the direction you are traveling.

Oh and airsoft guys are another one that can usually refill airbag canisters. Evidently Sports Authority is an Airsoft supplier. So maybe they can do it, and they do have a shop in Silverthorne. You might give them a call too.


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## killclimbz

What are the dates of your trip? Things have been looking up. It would be fun if we could go pillow smashing on Vail Pass. Always a good time in at that spot.


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## DrnknZag

Our trip will be from 3/2 to 3/10. We fly into Denver late Saturday evening and are planning on heading straight to Summit County from there, which is why I was wondering if I could get it filled in Dillon or Silverthorne.

Only two of us on the trip are splitty equipped. Do you think I'd be possible to rent a split setup and ski touring setup for the other two guys? I'm still on the fence about bringing my splitty, but if I can I'll do it. Might ship my Sparks to my buddy's hour ahead of time so I pack two decks and one set of bindings.


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## killclimbz

Call the Sports Authority. They might just be able to do it. Wilderness Sports would be where I would first check for split rentals. I am pretty sure if they don't rent splits someone else does in Summit. 

So I leave for Washington March 8th. It is totally worth bringing your split. If the snows there. I'll have a better idea come February if you really want to bring it or not. I'll make time to get out that first weekend or during that week with you if it's a go. I'll be in Gold Bar from March 8th-18th. My riding time is the 9th through the 17th. Looking forward to some PNW goodness.


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## Triple8Sol

Snowolf said:


> I can see the desire for a smaller pack for side country and even close in back country. Riding with a pack sucks plain and simple, so the smaller the pack the more fun it is riding.


Precisely. Hence the invention of products like TNF Powder Guide vest, which is now available with ABS too.



ShredLife said:


> for any noobs reading - many of the smallest sized shovels being sold today by some companies as snow safety gear are not acceptable for use in the bc.


I hear what you're saying here, but here's my thoughts: The dimensions of the shovel is less important as how quickly you're moving snow. This would hold even more true for someone of smaller stature or a woman, but really for anyone. if you can dig longer/harder with a smaller blade vs. tiring out and dragging ass with a larger blade, wouldn't that actually the smarter choice? I wouldn't argue against a burlier model with telescoping handle vs. a thing-walled "lightweight" model that will bend/break more easily.


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## ShredLife

Triple8Sol said:


> I hear what you're saying here, but here's my thoughts: The dimensions of the shovel is less important as how quickly you're moving snow. This would hold even more true for someone of smaller stature or a woman, but really for anyone. if you can dig longer/harder with a smaller blade vs. tiring out and dragging ass with a larger blade, wouldn't that actually the smarter choice? I wouldn't argue against a burlier model with telescoping handle vs. a thing-walled "lightweight" model that will bend/break more easily.


i agree with your statement but i also maintain that some of the smallest blades out there are simply too small and absolutely some of the shafts/handles... also, having a larger blade doesn't mean that you have to take the biggest scoops all the time - it does give you the option however.


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## killclimbz

I received my pack on Tuesday and took it out yesterday. 

Initial thoughts. The thong retention strap is sexy. Makes you feel special on the way down. The pack itself seems to be burly enough and well designed. I got the 30 liter pack. Two gripes. 1. It should be a 30 liter pack after the airbag is added to it, not before. A big chunk of space is gone before you even load it. I may have to order the 45 liter bag at some point. 

2. The other shoulder strap should be set up to run a hydration hose through it to keep it from freezing. You have a bladder pocket and a hose hole that leads to the outside of the pack. Yeah, instant freeze. I'd be willing to pay an extra $50 for this feature. 

Otherwise, it's a pretty sweet bag. I plan on deploying the airbag next week. One I find a place that will recharge the canister. The system itself does not add much weight to the bag. I was surprised at how little the weighed with just the RAS system in it.


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## ShredLife

Just ordered mine: the Light RAS ready, RAS system, canister and refill kit 3-pack. comes in at just under $900. i special ordered from REI so i can return it if i feel like it. will update here if it backorders and when it comes.


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## killclimbz

Which pack is it? The smallest one? If it's that one, you might have room for your bikini after the airbag is in it. Good choice overall though.


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## ShredLife

Light R.A.S. ready - Avalanche Airbags - Mammut


30l, ~600g lighter than the "regular" Ride RAS 30l, no padded hipbelt.


i wear my thong in the bc - no need to pack it


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## killclimbz

Gotcha. I don't believe I ordered the light, but it's basically the same pack. I do wish that the pack was 30 liters after the airbag is in place. Still, it seems to have just enough room for me to bring what I need. It's packed to the hilt though. I think you'll like it.


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## ShredLife

i definitely plan on augmenting the Pro 45l for overnight stuff. they do make the pro in a 35l, maybe that would have been a better fir for you?


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## killclimbz

Yeah, it probably would have been the better buy. It made the pro form a lot more complicated and actually jacked the price up quite a bit having to buy the airbag separate from the pack. I can't really complain considering the price I paid. I might order the 35 liter pack later and sell the 30 liter one without the system for a ridiculous price. 

What I really want is for those guys to add an insulated hydration shoulder strap. Freezing is a big issue here with our cold ass temps. The insulated shoulder strap is the only thing I have used that stops it from happening.


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## ShredLife

i realize that this could be dangerous given the purpose of the pack - and i haven't seen these in person yet, but could you just run an insulated bladder sleeve inside the strap with the handle? running next to the handle?

yea the insulated tubes aren't as good as a strap but its something...


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## killclimbz

I exchanged emails with the Mammut Rep JP about this. They do not recommend that action at all. Part of the problem I think is that the hose could get yanked instead of the handle in an emergency. Otherwise I don't really see it affecting the performance of the bag. This is one you'd have to make a decision on yourself and it if it goes south, could have serious ramifications in regards to the bag deploying or not. I *may* go that route, but not before I try a lot of other things first. Right now I've wrapped my already insulated hose with insulation tape for water pipes. It looks like shit, but if it works, I am cool with it. I don't suspect it will work though as the should strap rides high and tight to your body, getting insulation from there too.


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## ShredLife

well i'm sure you already know this but for any NEWPS reading along, remember to blow-back the water from the hose back into the bladder after drinking....

fuck i just use waterbottles.... i like taking a break :laugh:


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## killclimbz

Yeah, I always blow back, but with a loaded pack, the water just gets pushed back up the tube. I'll probably be moving to water bottles, but damn I like the hydration hose much better over the course of a day.


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## ShredLife

i've been using aluminum water bottles from the dollar store. they're basically the same as a sigg but they're only a buck!


like i said before - i do like to stop and break along the way and its nice to take the pack off every now and then for a drink.... i also try to work on pre and post hydration more so i can just go when i'm out there...


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## killclimbz

Sooooooo...

I was out at Buffalo Pass yesterday. My look like shit insulation over the insulation hose didn't work and it froze right away. Avalanche danger at the spot I was hitting at Buff Pass is fairly non existent. I wanted hydration and one water bottle wasn't going to do it for me. So I ran the hose along with the pull handle. I didn't activate the bag of course, but in all honesty I don't see how a tube running along side the handle is going to cause your bag not to work. The main thing is to make sure one or the other is stashed out of the way so you don't accidently activate the bag or have the water hose get in the way of your ability to pull the handle. It was very easy to do and guess what? My hose didn't freeze all day. Of course this goes against manufacturer recommendations and probably voids any claim you might have if the bag doesn't deploy. Regardless it works and unless I really think I might need to deploy the bag, I am probably going to rock it that way. Of course if I think I will be getting in a situation where I might need to deploy the bag, I need to have my head checked as to why I am going out at that point...


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## AdamBQ

Doesn't camelpack make an insulation line to wrap your hose?


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## killclimbz

AdamBQ said:


> Doesn't camelpack make an insulation line to wrap your hose?


Yes, but it is not enough to keep your hose from freezing. I am using it. I suspect in warmer climates, like the PNW and California, maybe the insulated hose is enough most of the time. In Colorado, where the temps are usually in the teens or twenties, it's instant freeze. I suspect it has a lot to do with the fact that the hose doesn't ride high and tight against your body like it does in the should strap. So cold air surrounds it. I know I am breaking the rules, but I am pretty confident that this is a rule I can break.


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## ShredLife

Killz - did you blow that pack yet? Just wondering what the length of pull of the release cord is like in regards to this bladder hose discussion...


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## killclimbz

I haven't blown the pack yet. I have taken the cartridge out and pull the cord activating the burst pin and such. The pull is very short. It snaps into place. The key thing I take from it is to make sure the bladder hose is stashed away from the handle. Which by the design of the zipper it was pretty easy to do. I'll probably get to blow it this week. Looks like I need to spend some time working on my car and there isn't much snow in the forecast anyway. Should leave me with time to mess with the pack and get the cartridge refilled.


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## Slush Puppie

I'm interested to know how noticeable is the extra weight when riding with one of these badboys on vs a standard pack?

I like the R.A.S. system but the original Snowpulse seems to offer great tech and lower profile packs (hard to tell without seeing in person). Bit more expensive though. 

I'm tempted but I want something minimal weight and profile as it would be day use only and must be comfortable on the lift. Don't need much storage other than to fit the safety gear in.


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## killclimbz

Get one of the 25 liter packs. As far as the weight goes. I was surprised at how little the system weighs in an unloaded pack. Not much. Plus the Mammut Packs carry very well. At least the 30 liter does. They do weigh a whole lot less than the BCA versions for certain. 

It is more weight, no way to get around it. The extra layer of insurance is well worth it imo.


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## ShredLife

ok, so i traded in some old gear at the swap shop and they happened to have a RAS ride 30 hangin on the wall so i put the trade $ towards it and took it home. 

i cancelled most of the order i had put in for the ride light 30 but i left the bag itself on there so that is still coming sometime. it will end up over 2 pounds lighter with the light bag so i'm still pretty intrigued to see what that's gonna look like. 

the RAS 30 itself is a pretty sick pack, although quite bulky near the top where the airbag sits. when fully loaded its also pretty bulky as far as the depth off of your back, which i hate - but it carries pretty well so i'll just have to see how it feels on snow.

one thing i can't figure out tho, Killz maybe you can help: with these packs A-frame carry up a chute or in any slide zone is a no-no, so i'm fine with diagonal ski-style carry. the problem is i can only see/find the lower diagonal carry attachment. :dunno: do you know where the top one is? :blink: i can see no topside diagonal loop....

took it to a scuba shop to get filled (canister came empty) and discovered that you need a scuba tank adapter SCUBA Yoke to Airbag Canister Fill Adapter to do that... if i can get it filled at a paintball shop tomorrow i'll blow it before my sunday tour/hike/shred.


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## ShredLife

well, got the pack filled at the paintball place for 3 bucks. took it home and blew it in the back yard. works great. super easy to deflate, fold, and repack. super easy to replace the burst disk. got it refilled again and i'm all set. 

one thing i like about the Snowpulse (non RAS) bags is that after a minute or two the bag self-deflates so that in the event of a burial you get the advantage of the airbag-sized air pocket.


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## killclimbz

Shred, there is a loop in the Avy gear pocket. Has to be for the diagonal carry carry.

I think I am going to blow mine today and go get her refilled. Glad to hear it was easy for you.


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## ShredLife

That's the bottom loop, I'm looking for the top one... I figured out a bootpacking setup with the skis strappied together, one binding off and dangling from that bottom loop and the skis just in like board carry... Works ok.


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## killclimbz

There is a loop inside of the avy gear pocket at the top of the pack. I was wondering what the hell it was for. Pretty sure there is no way in hell you'd use it for the bottom loop. I am not sure what else it would be for. At least that is how it is in my pack.


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## killclimbz

Unless of course my definition of the top of the pack is just the opposite of yours. I am going to go look at it now.


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## killclimbz

Okay, I get it, that upper strap is the release for the loop at the bottom. Hadn't noticed that. Looks like you loop 'em and use the upper snowboard strap? Pretty weird.

I'll email JP at Mammut and ask my ski buddies about it.


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## killclimbz

Well, I just blew the pack in my house. Wife is super pissed at me. Took me a bit to find the release valve. My bag did not deflate until I hit the release valve btw. Good 10-15 minutes and the airbag was still solid full of air. That might not be a good thing that your experienced Shred. Got it all packed back in it's spot. Now I just got to get the cartridge refilled.


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