# Burton Step on first impressions



## Bataleon85 (Apr 29, 2017)

I hear good things about them initially but my biggest concern would be durability over the long run. They're very expensive and I feel like those tabs would wear down if not downright sheer off and then you're either faced with a loose binding or outright replacement. Could be I'm reading too far into it but we all know bindings take a beating and I just can't imagine little tabs you're shoving your feet into numerous times a day over the course of a season is going to hold up for long, and when that's your only means of restraint, I gotta be skeptical at best. 

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## ek9max (Apr 8, 2013)

Bataleon85 said:


> I hear good things about them initially but my biggest concern would be durability over the long run. They're very expensive and I feel like those tabs would wear down if not downright sheer off and then you're either faced with a loose binding or outright replacement. Could be I'm reading too far into it but we all know bindings take a beating and I just can't imagine little tabs you're shoving your feet into numerous times a day over the course of a season is going to hold up for long, and when that's your only means of restraint, I gotta be skeptical at best.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G935T using Tapatalk


True. I personally only need them to last one 60 day season and I'll be happy enough with the durability. Regular boots and bindings dont' typically last me longer than that either.


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## Bataleon85 (Apr 29, 2017)

Well yeah anybody who rides a lot is going to tear through gear but these things are just so spendy. If you got it, by all means do it up but I can really only see two markets for these things, people with a ton of disposable income or jerrys who go once or twice a year. 

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## qelhaj (Sep 24, 2017)

ek9max said:


> So I got my pair of photon and step on bindings today. Thought I would give you guys my first impressions.
> 
> If any of you know me, I'm a bit of a gear nut. I LOVE demo'ing gear, but I don't like going to demos. So I just end up buying stuff and selling it later if I don't like it. I am by no means a burton fan either. I have had a burton performer deal for the last 3 seasons and have bought nothing off them for me. These didn't qualify for the discount so I paid retail for them.
> 
> ...


Looking forward to hearing more! Nice thanks for that review

Snowboardingfeverdreams


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## ek9max (Apr 8, 2013)

Bataleon85 said:


> Well yeah anybody who rides a lot is going to tear through gear but these things are just so spendy. If you got it, by all means do it up but I can really only see two markets for these things, people with a ton of disposable income or jerrys who go once or twice a year.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G935T using Tapatalk


Are they? They were $799 canadian. Thats about what a normal boot and binding setup is. Sometimes cheaper.


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## Bataleon85 (Apr 29, 2017)

Hmm well I guess if you buy current year's model every year at the beginning of the season? That seems high to me for standard boots and bindings. 

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## qelhaj (Sep 24, 2017)

What's the Burton warranty deal with these?

Snowboardingfeverdreams


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## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

Burton went through 20000 cycles on a single pair. 10000 with a machine, and then 10000 in the Chrsitopher Walk-in freezer at Craig's by actual people. After all that the boot-binding unit passed the test they designed to test binding to board retention. It's incredibly well tested. On top of that the binding wings are easily replaceable. My area rep put 88 days on his samples and they still snap down with security and confidence.


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## ek9max (Apr 8, 2013)

Nivek said:


> Burton went through 20000 cycles on a single pair. 10000 with a machine, and then 10000 in the Chrsitopher Walk-in freezer at Craig's by actual people. After all that the boot-binding unit passed the test they designed to test binding to board retention. It's incredibly well tested. On top of that the binding wings are easily replaceable. My area rep put 88 days on his samples and they still snap down with security and confidence.


That is good news!


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## KIRKRIDER (Mar 18, 2008)

ek9max said:


> So I got my pair of photon and step on bindings today. Thought I would give you guys my first impressions.
> 
> If any of you know me, I'm a bit of a gear nut. I LOVE demo'ing gear, but I don't like going to demos. So I just end up buying stuff and selling it later if I don't like it. I am by no means a burton fan either. I have had a burton performer deal for the last 3 seasons and have bought nothing off them for me. These didn't qualify for the discount so I paid retail for them.
> 
> ...



Perfect. >


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## Phedder (Sep 13, 2014)

ek9max said:


> Are they? They were $799 canadian. Thats about what a normal boot and binding setup is. Sometimes cheaper.


Yep, regular Photon Boas + Cartels come to $799CAD as well. I think it's just _having_ to buy both boots and bindings at the same time that makes it seem expensive to some people.


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## basser (Sep 18, 2015)

Phedder said:


> Yep, regular Photon Boas + Cartels come to $799CAD as well. I think it's just _having_ to buy both boots and bindings at the same time that makes it seem expensive to some people.


I also feel that most people don't buy boots/bindings at full retail. The only choice if you want the step on is to buy new--no discounts


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## Bataleon85 (Apr 29, 2017)

basser said:


> I also feel that most people don't buy boots/bindings at full retail. The only choice if you want the step on is to buy new--no discounts


Like I said, people with a lot of disposable income or jerrys who snowboard as a vacation lol

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## ek9max (Apr 8, 2013)

basser said:


> Phedder said:
> 
> 
> > Yep, regular Photon Boas + Cartels come to $799CAD as well. I think it's just _having_ to buy both boots and bindings at the same time that makes it seem expensive to some people.
> ...


This year ya. But by mid season next year you will be able to get a discount. And if they take off by a couple years you?ll be able to get them for end of season deals. 

They are priced well for a boot and binding combo that, if they fit well, could be superior to the traditional setup with response and convenience. 

Now if they ride like ass and get clogged us with snow constantly. Then they are the most expensive boots and bindings available that don?t work.

But after my intial living room tests, I?m optimistic that this could be a really good setup for a lot of people.


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## SGboarder (Jun 24, 2012)

Bataleon85 said:


> ...They're very expensive


Actually they are about the same as a 'standard' set-up from Burton.

EDIT: Others beat to me to pointing this. And comparing to discounted previous seasons gear is off course nonsense for now.


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## ekb18c (Mar 11, 2013)

I wished burton boots fit my feet better but since they don't, i dont think is an option for me. That's too bad because i always love new tech


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## qelhaj (Sep 24, 2017)

ek9max said:


> So I got my pair of photon and step on bindings today. Thought I would give you guys my first impressions.
> 
> If any of you know me, I'm a bit of a gear nut. I LOVE demo'ing gear, but I don't like going to demos. So I just end up buying stuff and selling it later if I don't like it. I am by no means a burton fan either. I have had a burton performer deal for the last 3 seasons and have bought nothing off them for me. These didn't qualify for the discount so I paid retail for them.
> 
> ...


Hey how did you get your hands on them? I thought they shipped out 2nd Nov.

Snowboardingfeverdreams


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## ek9max (Apr 8, 2013)

qelhaj said:


> ek9max said:
> 
> 
> > So I got my pair of photon and step on bindings today. Thought I would give you guys my first impressions.
> ...


Some local stores will have them already. They just can?t advertise or even put them on display until nov 2. So I was told anyways.


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## jinnib83877 (Oct 6, 2017)

Thanks for your review 
I can't wait to get one
It seems to be a nice product


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## ek9max (Apr 8, 2013)

jinnib83877 said:


> Thanks for your review
> I can't wait to get one
> It seems to be a nice product


Ya. I trie them on again today. Did some carpet ollies/presses and stuff. Feel like normal carpet snowboarding. lol


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

ek9max said:


> Ya. I trie them on again today. Did some carpet ollies/presses and stuff. Feel like normal carpet snowboarding. lol


Now all you need to do is drop a couple of fluffly bed pillows on your carpet..and you're riding pow


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## ek9max (Apr 8, 2013)

F1EA said:


> Now all you need to do is drop a couple of fluffly bed pillows on your carpet..and you're riding pow


E, you're also one step ahead of me.....


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## Gari14 (Jan 4, 2012)

They look awesome. I got a thing for new tech and these look great.


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## ek9max (Apr 8, 2013)

Got them in snow today. 

I’m impressed. So much response. Very comfortable and less foot fatigue from having no strap on the top of your foot tight all day. 

I did get stuck in one binding at one point because I wasn’t paying attention and got my pant leg all stuck up in there one time. 

Also stepping on and off you should really listen to the video. Heel toe and go for stepping on. And lift heel and twist to get out. 

On the carpet I didn’t have to do that but on snow it’s easier if you do.


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## qelhaj (Sep 24, 2017)

My impressions after 2 hours on them:

Let's get the negatives out of the way first. The ads said that you'd forget you had them on, well that wasn't my experience. I literally had to relearn to ride my board for the first half hour. 

Some background might be useful. I'm an intermediate riding a sized down Rossi rocknrolla predominantly doing freestyle in an indoor park in Dubai. Which was one of the reasons I wanted the step ons. When you're strapping in every 15 minutes something like this is going to make a huge difference.

I did notice the clicking sounds when flexing in the bindings. But only when my music was off and I was stationary. It was not noticable when riding because there's so many other noises drowning it out.

Finally I did experience a hot spot where the shoe met the forward outer cleat and only on my front foot. That got quite bad towards the end of the two hours. I had swapped the insoles for rather large footprint kingsoles and that might have had a part to play in it because when I put the originals back in at home on the carpet the shoe/bindings went back to feeling like a glove. I also turned the bindings out to 15 degrees or so from the 12 I initially had and I think that will put less pressure on my outside edge as I ride.

Having said all that I have to say I'm really enjoying the switch to step on. Esthetically they look great! No more bindings flopping about. The board looks neat without the straps. 

After my relearning to ride phase I started to really enjoy the better connection to the board. It actually feels like a stiffer set up initially. But then it changes to just feeling more connected to the board...Butters became easier and I got the confidence to get more air under my 180s and 360s. All this with just 2 hours to play with it. I'm quite excited to become more familiar with it.

The quality of the boots and bindings are excellent and I honestly never received better packaging on a snowboard item. The boxes it came in have magnets in them to keep them closed! I can't bring myself to throw the packaging away as it is so pretty!

The rullers were extremely comfortable straight out of the box with a good medium to soft flex. Excellent heel hold and a very reassuring boa system. Even the clip at the back for the hem of the pants felt sturdy and well made.

The bindings look very well made and felt very secure, I did have a couple of times where I engaged my cleats before the ratchet at the back and the connection felt lose so I had to exit and re engage. But I'll notch that down to getting used to the system. 

Regarding stepping on on a slope that requires some practice as well. But I find in the end that if I engaged the back of the boot then as soon as I put pressure on my toe edge as I ride away the cleats would engage with a satisfying click.

One of the best snowboard purchases I made!









Snowboardingfeverdreams


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## ek9max (Apr 8, 2013)

The product is really good. I?m very picky with my gear and some of the guys know me here as somebody who buys something then sells it on Craigslist the next day and buys something else. 

Day one. I?m impressed and can?t wait to get out again. 

As good as the product is now. I?m excited to see what comes next year and so on. Photons are good. But it would be cool to have those SLX are ons I?ve seen around also. And for them to iron out even more bugs.


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## ek9max (Apr 8, 2013)

Got 4 days in snow with these now. Each day got better and I love them now!!!!

Once you learn the nuances of the system, it becomes second nature. I can get IN and OUT much faster than regular bindings. They are super responsive and comfortable.


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## durp (Oct 25, 2017)

deletededed


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## ek9max (Apr 8, 2013)

durp said:


> ek9max said:
> 
> 
> > Got 4 days in snow with these now. Each day got better and I love them now!!!!
> ...


Early season groomers type stuff. Not super hard pack but not too soft either. 

At this point. No, I won?t go back. They perform as good if not better then regular bindings. But it?s just so easy to get in and out. 

There was a trail where it?s basically impossible to get up this small hill so I?m used to stopping, unstrapping to skate 10? then having to strap back in. It?s a really cool line but sometimes I would avoid it because of the inconvenience. 

This time I went up there. Unclipped, skating 10? and stepped back on in seconds. It felt amazing. 

I did go a bit off piste where there was about a 2 min hike. Go to the spot, brushed off the snow and stepped on. I had to make a bit of a platform just like with regular bindings. And put a bit more pressure to make sure I was in. But it was fine. 

The only way I could see myself going back to regular bindings are if the boots pack out and become super sloppy and uncomfortable. Or when I get it into wet deep snow and it freezes up the binding. So time will tell. 

People say that they are made for beginners, but I think they aren?t more suitable for intermediate and up. There?s a bit of a learning curve to being efficient at getting in and out. And a bit of balance needed too, or super flat starting points off a lift which aren?t always there. 

Basically if you?re able to put regular bindings on well without sitting down, you will love these. 

But if you?re thinking of getting them. I would say that if you?re not a beginner, get them.


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## 70'sskater (Mar 20, 2014)

Just got out the 1st time on mine. I have the Photon boots.

Pro's
boots super comfortable, no pressure points or heel lift.
pretty responsive system, real happy with how they performed.
felt like a strap set-up without the pressure of having straps on.
easy in easy out.
none of the lifties noticed or cared about leashes. I was at Stevens Pass, Wa

Con's
none really, I would prefer laces over Boa but its not that big of a deal.
.
Just one day but so far so good.


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## jywu86 (Jan 16, 2012)

ek9max said:


> Early season groomers type stuff. Not super hard pack but not too soft either.
> 
> At this point. No, I won?t go back. They perform as good if not better then regular bindings. But it?s just so easy to get in and out.
> 
> ...


I'm curious to hear why you don't think they would be good for a beginner? Is it mainly the responsiveness? I just got these for my wife because it's hard for her to strap in and takes a lot of energy for her to get started. She's a fairly new rider so I'm a little concerned these will might be too responsive for her. Thanks in advanced!


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## ek9max (Apr 8, 2013)

jywu86 said:


> I'm curious to hear why you don't think they would be good for a beginner? Is it mainly the responsiveness? I just got these for my wife because it's hard for her to strap in and takes a lot of energy for her to get started. She's a fairly new rider so I'm a little concerned these will might be too responsive for her. Thanks in advanced!



I think this because you don't always have a perfectly flat spot to stand and clip in. So you need to be proficient at digging your heel into the snow first, then keeping your balance to clip in. 

Also, it takes a bit of effort for me to get my heel into the 2nd locking position. I actually hop then stomp by back foot in before I get going. That would be tough for a beginner. 

That's why I think these are great for intermediate and up. Guys that never sit down now to do up their bindings. I don't sit down to do up my bindings, and these save me a bunch of hassle from bending over to do up my straps.


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## jywu86 (Jan 16, 2012)

ek9max said:


> I think this because you don't always have a perfectly flat spot to stand and clip in. So you need to be proficient at digging your heel into the snow first, then keeping your balance to clip in.
> 
> Also, it takes a bit of effort for me to get my heel into the 2nd locking position. I actually hop then stomp by back foot in before I get going. That would be tough for a beginner.
> 
> That's why I think these are great for intermediate and up. Guys that never sit down now to do up their bindings. I don't sit down to do up my bindings, and these save me a bunch of hassle from bending over to do up my straps.


That's a great point! I had her practice on rubber floor mats in the garage and it seemed like pretty easy, but once you lose that traction I can definitely see it being a lot more difficult. I guess it's time to teach a new skill!


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## riderriderpow77 (Jan 11, 2015)

i'm not familiar with the predisposition people have with step ons, as i am fairly new to the sport, but these look legit. no more wet spots on my ass and just seems great for a resort rider. 

darcey sharp had a quick little line in this IG post using them: https://www.instagram.com/p/BbVREJWhlgO/?hl=en&taken-by=darcysharpe

i'll probably pick up a set when they go on discount lol


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

riderriderpow77 said:


> no more wet spots on my ass and just seems great for a resort rider.


Get proper pants... really. 

After that, practice to strap in standing. It's not that hard, just a matter of balance which needs practice (which I could imagine those step on bindings need as well)


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## WasabiCanuck (Apr 29, 2015)

neni said:


> Get proper pants... really.
> 
> After that, practice to strap in standing. It's not that hard, just a matter of balance which needs practice (which I could imagine those step on bindings need as well)


Yup this. Snowboarding got a lot more fun for me once I learned how to strap-in standing-up. The step-ons would make it a bit easier but not a ton. It's something I may get down the road especially as I get older. The tech seems legit.


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## ek9max (Apr 8, 2013)

WasabiCanuck said:


> neni said:
> 
> 
> > Get proper pants... really.
> ...


You’d be surprised.... I strapped in standing 99% of the time. And this makes it even easier and much faster. I didn’t think it would make such a big difference until I got them, got used to them, and rode with all my friends that don’t have them. It’s seriously like 200x faster.


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## zc1 (Feb 20, 2017)

ek9max said:


> You’d be surprised.... I strapped in standing 99% of the time. And this makes it even easier and much faster. I didn’t think it would make such a big difference until I got them, got used to them, and rode with all my friends that don’t have them. It’s seriously like 200x faster.


Mostly agree (I don't know about 200x :wink. It's faster in and out, at least as responsive as my strap bindings, and more comfortable. Additionally, you know you've got it set up exactly the same time every time you click in -- no wondering if you placed your foot just right or clicked the ratchets enough/too many times. For those thinking about getting them, don't bother with it if the boots don't fit you properly; you'll be wasting your time. If the boots fit you really well, though, it's a nice alternative to traditional strap bindings.


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## snowbank (Nov 19, 2017)

zc1 said:


> Mostly agree (I don't know about 200x :wink. It's faster in and out, at least as responsive as my strap bindings, and more comfortable. Additionally, you know you've got it set up exactly the same time every time you click in -- no wondering if you placed your foot just right or clicked the ratchets enough/too many times. For those thinking about getting them, don't bother with it if the boots don't fit you properly; you'll be wasting your time. If the boots fit you really well, though, it's a nice alternative to traditional strap bindings.


That's good to hear. Do the cleats cause pressure points for you? At this point would you go back to straps? I've yet to hear a bad thing about riding them...I actually worry it will feel more like a carving slalom board because they are so locked in. Rather than a surfy board that has play between the boot and binding.


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## ek9max (Apr 8, 2013)

snowbank said:


> zc1 said:
> 
> 
> > Mostly agree (I don't know about 200x
> ...


The first few days I had some pressure on my small toe on my front foot. It was never that bad and it’s mostly gone now. 

At this point I don’t think I’ll go back to strap no. But if I had to, it wouldn’t be the end of the world either. 

The only way I could see myself going back is if these boots pack out so much that response goes to crap. 

But 10+ days on them I think they’ve packed out almost fully and they still ride great. 

I’d love to try out some ions or slx in the step on. Photons aren’t my fave.


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## zc1 (Feb 20, 2017)

snowbank said:


> That's good to hear. Do the cleats cause pressure points for you? At this point would you go back to straps? I've yet to hear a bad thing about riding them...I actually worry it will feel more like a carving slalom board because they are so locked in. Rather than a surfy board that has play between the boot and binding.


No pressure points for me. They are definitely solid, but supposedly some of the prototypes were worse as they had 4 connection points vs the 3 on the production model. My impression is that they just feel like really good bindings. I can't use exclusively these, as Burton won't sell the bindings separately, but when they decide to open up the supply, if these are still working then as they do now, I'll happily put step on bindings on more of my boards and retire/sell some of the strap bindings.

I had never ridden Burton boots until this set. I had only ever tried one pair in-store and they caused a lot of pain on one foot. I didn't revisit the brand (for boots) after that, until the step ons were released. The Photons surprised me in the way they fit my feet (perfectly) and that's why I decided to give the system a go.


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## chomps1211 (Mar 30, 2011)

neni said:


> Get proper pants... really.
> 
> After that, *practice to strap in standing. It's not that hard, just a matter of balance which needs practice *(which I could imagine those step on bindings need as well)


^!!This!!^

I honest to god never unserstood the problem ppl were having standing up to strap in!!!!

I am prolly the _least_ coordinated, athletic, or graceful member of this entire forum,...! I'm 57 years old, Arthritic, weigh 245/250 buck nekkid & suffer from a _terminally_ disgusting case of TB! *(...two Bellies!!)* I have 6 pieces of titanium screwed into my spine @ L2/3,... 

And I can _still_ manage to strap in standing up!!! :blink:

The only *real* advantage these new step-ins offer in my case,...?








.....Nobody on the slope would have to see my "Butt Crack" ever again!!! :rofl3: :laugh:


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

qelhaj said:


> My impressions after 2 hours on them:





ek9max said:


> Got 4 days in snow with these now. Each day got better and I love them now!!!!


 @SGboarder, @Nivek: have you as well tried them?

Three questions: I could imagine that they are hard to click in in deep fluffy pow, i.e. without firm ground. Is it?

They must feel quite different for riding. I mean, there's no straps, i.e. if on a long hard front edge carve, the ankle does not have the push of a strap to do mini adjustments, or vice versa, on a heel carve, toes dont have the toe strap push. 
Mini adjustments in that system all have to come from the base connection, feet are pulling at the boot instead of pushing against straps, which I assume, feels very different. Can you do mini edge adjustments as precisely as if in familiar strap system where one can address each strap separately? 

I assume the boot is pretty stiff over all to transmit that pulling... how tight do you need to be in the boot? (I've my lower boot completely loose, to allow for good curculation on the chairlift. I only tighten the upper boot decently; I get response by tightening binding straps pretty tight; I assume, with this new system, one has to have the boot tightened quite firm or one looses response?


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## qelhaj (Sep 24, 2017)

Is anyone else experiencing got pain on the outside edge of the foot where it meets the cleats? Any ideas on how to fix that problem?

Snowboardingfeverdreams


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## zc1 (Feb 20, 2017)

neni said:


> I could imagine that they are hard to click in in deep fluffy pow, i.e. without firm ground. Is it?


Probably. Same deal with skis. There are ways around it, same as with skis. I'm leaving for the mountains in a few hours (first trip of the season). Hopefully I'll run across some, but the word so far is that yes, you can step on in powder but it takes some adjustments, as would be expected.



neni said:


> They must feel quite different for riding. I mean, there's no straps, i.e. if on a long hard front edge carve, the ankle does not have the push of a strap to do mini adjustments, or vice versa, on a heel carve, toes dont have the toe strap push.


The ankle still has to push the boot. It's just that the boot no longer has to push a strap, but a cleat, instead. Two thirds of the cleats are also not radically different in their positioning. The boot's two front cleats attach to the bindings at the same spot as the straps would in a traditional setup, so the forces are ultimately going to the same place as they would with straps. It's the rear, single cleat that connects differently than in a traditional setup (one point/area of connection rather than two).



neni said:


> Mini adjustments in that system all have to come from the base connection, feet are pulling at the boot instead of pushing against straps, which I assume, feels very different. Can you do mini edge adjustments as precisely as if in familiar strap system where one can address each strap separately?


You can micro-manage to your heart's content. The connections are similar, as above. The movements are the same. The responsiveness still depends on the same things:

1. boot fit (foot-boot connection) -- if it's sloppy, then don't expect miracles from the rest of the system

2. strap tightness (boot-binding connection) -- cleats replace straps, and they're at least equivalent to (and probably better than, in most cases) 'locked down' ankle and toe straps

3. binding responsiveness (binding-board connection) -- same as a traditional binding (4x4 or EST/ICS)

With traditional bindings, the only guaranteed locked-down connection was #3 . Now with step ons, #2 and #3 are solid. The only potentially sloppy connection (assuming it's all working) is like with skiing: foot-boot. If you wear well-fitted, stiff boots and clamp down your straps with your traditional setup, then this will actually feel at least very similar, very likely the same and possibly even better. That's why I say it just feels like a very good set of bindings. It's still the same motions of your toes, feet and ankles being transmitted through a boot, to a binding. The only difference is they removed/shortened the middle man (straps) opting for cleats. Straps are variable with respect to positioning, tightness, responsiveness. Cleats are not.



neni said:


> I assume the boot is pretty stiff over all to transmit that pulling... how tight do you need to be in the boot? (I've my lower boot completely loose, to allow for good curculation on the chairlift. I only tighten the upper boot decently; I get response by tightening binding straps pretty tight; I assume, with this new system, one has to have the boot tightened quite firm or one looses response?


As above, if everything is set up properly and working properly then the sloppiest connection now is the boot-foot connection. The responsiveness of the system is only going to be as good as the boot fit. If the boots don't fit well then don't bother.


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## WasabiCanuck (Apr 29, 2015)

ek9max said:


> The first few days I had some pressure on my small toe on my front foot. It was never that bad and it’s mostly gone now.
> 
> At this point I don’t think I’ll go back to strap no. But if I had to, it wouldn’t be the end of the world either.
> 
> ...


Ya I'm going to wait until they have a higher-end boot in the line-up. But holy shit Ions/slx are so fricken expensive already. Those boots are $500+cdn now. How much will they be with step-on tech!?! Probably $1000 for boot & binding. That's steep.


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## qelhaj (Sep 24, 2017)

neni said:


> @SGboarder, @Nivek: have you as well tried them?
> 
> Three questions: I could imagine that they are hard to click in in deep fluffy pow, i.e. without firm ground. Is it?
> 
> ...


I haven't had the chance to try them in deep snow. But I have started learning to stop on on a slope. It is a learning process as I never got the balance required down even on strap-ons.

But I have started to trust the mechanism more and am not too worried about getting the heel in first etc. I'm just placing my foot in the bindings with one movent. And that's a pleasure.

Honestly I have better board control on the step ons than I did with bindings. It may be partly to do with the fact that my old boots felt about a size too big. But I tried them on my proto type 2 and loved that setup.

So to answer your question yes you can make mini adjustments on the carve but the process feels a little different. I would say this new system is more confidence inspiring. You feel more connected to your board.

I do like a tighter fit\ more responsive fit. But I don't think I needed to have my boot really tight.

Snowboardingfeverdreams


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## riderriderpow77 (Jan 11, 2015)

i'm pretty good at skating around 1 foot strapped in and i like the idea of pushing off and stepping in. and yeah i can strap in standing but this just seems more natural. also i think these would be great for small indoor resorts and for those kids that like to constantly unstrap and walk up the jib line or w/e.


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## N-Y (Jan 15, 2017)

my step on setup

https://imgur.com/a/E6ue5


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## eli783 (Oct 24, 2012)

Finally got a solid day under my belt on these and couldnt believe how soft but responsive they are. At first I was kinda expecting response overkill but they definitely have a slight playfulness to them. Like others have said, if the boots are ill fitting the system is pointless. The boots are soaking up so much energy im nervous these photons will be mush in two yrs. ATM though theres really no complaints. If you're already standing to strap in, you'll get this in a few tries. If you're still goofing on straps, you'll goof in these.


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## ek9max (Apr 8, 2013)

I had them in DEEP heavy pow today.  At one point my buddy led me to a pretty flat spot and we got stuck. I wasn’t able to get into the 2nd locking position but still able to ride. 

I wasn’t fully confident in them self tightening (which they didn’t) so I took it easy until the end of the run. 

Rest of the day was great as I am good enough to very rarely get stuck somewhere. 

But if you get stuck on pow days in places. You might not like these much.


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## snowbank (Nov 19, 2017)

ek9max said:


> I had them in DEEP heavy pow today. At one point my buddy led me to a pretty flat spot and we got stuck. I wasn’t able to get into the 2nd locking position but still able to ride.
> 
> I wasn’t fully confident in them self tightening (which they didn’t) so I took it easy until the end of the run.
> 
> ...


Yeah my fear. And I had them not able to lock in the second position when the clip malfunctioned from something in the spring mechanism.


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## eli783 (Oct 24, 2012)

snowbank said:


> Yeah my fear. And I had them not able to lock in the second position when the clip malfunctioned from something in the spring mechanism.


Didnt your defected binding not clip in at all?


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## snowbank (Nov 19, 2017)

eli783 said:


> Didnt your defected binding not clip in at all?


No it did clip some of the time, and I could get it to the second position, but the first position was not reliable at all. Burton said it was something in the spring, but if I were in powder I'd be wondering too if it was reliably clipped in like he said in deep pow...


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

ek9max said:


> I had them in DEEP heavy pow today. At one point my buddy led me to a pretty flat spot and we got stuck. I wasn’t able to get into the 2nd locking position but still able to ride.
> 
> I wasn’t fully confident in them self tightening (which they didn’t) so I took it easy until the end of the run.
> 
> ...


Oh you took them to deep pow and rode them?? 
That's crazy.

You should worry and wonder instead. Like Snowbank.


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## snowbank (Nov 19, 2017)

ek9max said:


> I had them in DEEP heavy pow today. At one point my buddy led me to a pretty flat spot and we got stuck. I wasn’t able to get into the 2nd locking position but still able to ride.
> 
> I wasn’t fully confident in them self tightening (which they didn’t) so I took it easy until the end of the run.
> 
> ...


Do you find because the heel is locked that you don't have enough movement? Wondering if you think this tech will always been in your equipment future?


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## f00bar (Mar 6, 2014)

Ugha... Was really hoping this thread would stay informative and not turn into a shit show. Can't you too just get a room already?


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## chomps1211 (Mar 30, 2011)

:blink:
...Am I the _only_ person that stops to brush the ice & snow out of my bindings before strapping in???:blink:




(...standing up btw!) >


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## snowbank (Nov 19, 2017)

chomps1211 said:


> :blink:
> ...Am I the _only_ person that stops to brush the ice & snow out of my bindings before strapping in???:blink:
> 
> 
> ...



I always do it! It feels weird to me not to have a stable place for my boot to go. like something is in my shoe. Sometimes if there is a ton of snow and I am feet of powder its impossible to get it all out.


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## Matty_B_Bop (Jan 27, 2015)

What would be the biggest benefit of these over traditional bindings with straps? The amount to time to get in and out of them doesn't seem like that much of a time saver. Less pressure on the boots from straps (more comfortable)? 

I'm all about new tech, but just trying to understand the major benefits of these especially given the price.


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

Matty_B_Bop said:


> What would be the biggest benefit of these over traditional bindings with straps? The amount to time to get in and out of them doesn't seem like that much of a time saver. Less pressure on the boots from straps (more comfortable)?
> 
> I'm all about new tech, but just trying to understand the major benefits of these especially given the price.


I think the benefits are very minimal...
Sort of like Boa. How much time do you REALLY save? Is anyone actually timing and accounting that? geez. Poor people.

I guess it's more about convenience. For a lot of people, it's just convenient to just step in and that's it. Actually, it's probably convenient for everyone, but many people just don't care, yet. Like auto transmissions.... it's definitely more convenient, but tons of people choose manual.


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## snowbank (Nov 19, 2017)

F1EA said:


> I think the benefits are very minimal...
> Sort of like Boa. How much time do you REALLY save? Is anyone actually timing and accounting that? geez. Poor people.
> 
> I guess it's more about convenience. For a lot of people, it's just convenient to just step in and that's it. Actually, it's probably convenient for everyone, but many people just don't care, yet. Like auto transmissions.... it's definitely more convenient Kent, but tons of people choose manual.


Yeah I agree. 

Transworlds pros and cons in their review seems pretty comprehensive

Pros:
Quick boot-to-binding entry that doesn't require bending over.
Laser-fast toe-to-heel response.
The boots are comfortable.
Solid landings.

Cons:
Odd clicking noise.
Lack of freedom to ride other bindings/boots.
Boot-to-binding entry is tough with snow build-up.
Restriction of movement.


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## ek9max (Apr 8, 2013)

Matty_B_Bop said:


> What would be the biggest benefit of these over traditional bindings with straps? The amount to time to get in and out of them doesn't seem like that much of a time saver. Less pressure on the boots from straps (more comfortable)?
> 
> I'm all about new tech, but just trying to understand the major benefits of these especially given the price.


I do find them very responsive. And maybe a bit less foot fatigue. 

The time saved with the step on portion doesn't seem like a lot...... But it really is a LOT of time. I feel like I'm standing around a lot waiting for my friends. Not a big deal, but it is significant. 

The best part that I like about it them is when you get stuck on a flat part. This weekend there are a couple spots at revelstoke that are unavoidable to unstrap, no matter how good or fast you are. 

So I would get stuff. Unclip, kick 2-3 times, clip back in. done. 100% of the other snowboarders had to stop.


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## f00bar (Mar 6, 2014)

When you are just standing around even 10s seems like a long time.

However the premium cost right now big picture wise would keep me from buying them. A couple hundred bucks for me isn't worth the probably 5m of total savings a day it'd buy me.

Honestly I'm just waiting to see how seem with a few more miles on them and what Burton does licensing wise. Boot wise we know they'll license. I wonder if they'll license the bindings as well for other companies. Not that I've ever had an issue with Burton bindings, but I do like choices.


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## snowbank (Nov 19, 2017)

f00bar said:


> When you are just standing around even 10s seems like a long time.
> 
> However the premium cost right now big picture wise would keep me from buying them. A couple hundred bucks for me isn't worth the probably 5m of total savings a day it'd buy me.
> 
> Honestly I'm just waiting to see how seem with a few more miles on them and what Burton does licensing wise. Boot wise we know they'll license. I wonder if they'll license the bindings as well for other companies. Not that I've ever had an issue with Burton bindings, but I do like choices.


Big question for me is if companies will want to license it. Doesn't seem like the channel system has caught on.


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## ek9max (Apr 8, 2013)

f00bar said:


> When you are just standing around even 10s seems like a long time.
> 
> However the premium cost right now big picture wise would keep me from buying them. A couple hundred bucks for me isn't worth the probably 5m of total savings a day it'd buy me.
> 
> Honestly I'm just waiting to see how seem with a few more miles on them and what Burton does licensing wise. Boot wise we know they'll license. I wonder if they'll license the bindings as well for other companies. Not that I've ever had an issue with Burton bindings, but I do like choices.


Ya I Agree. These aren't so awesome that everybody needs to get rid of their current equipment to get it. 

But the next time you need new boots and bindings. I would definitely take a look, especially in a couple years when they have a few different boots options and bindings.


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## ek9max (Apr 8, 2013)

snowbank said:


> Do you find because the heel is locked that you don't have enough movement? Wondering if you think this tech will always been in your equipment future?


For my foreseeable future, yes I think I will have these as my go to boot/binding setup. I really do like them overall. But change my mind all the time and go through WAY too much gear each season just because I change my mind all the time. 

That being said. I'm 17 days into my season and still have the photon step ons. Usually by now I would be on my 2nd or 3rd pair of boots and/or bindings by now.


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## Liontaryist (Dec 4, 2017)

*Talk is cheap!*

Hey guys/gals
Someone by the name "Snow bank" brought this forum to my attention so I thought I'd share some dynamic footage of the Step Ons in use. I've got 8 days on my pair and I'm a 350 pound aggressive rider.
Go take a peek!
(update) the forum won't let me post a link cuz I just signed up. I guess just go to YouTube and search: "Burton Step Ons vs 350lbs rider" sorry for the trouble.


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## snowbank (Nov 19, 2017)

Liontaryist said:


> Hey guys/gals
> Someone by the name "Snow bank" brought this forum to my attention so I thought I'd share some dynamic footage of the Step Ons in use. I've got 8 days on my pair and I'm a 350 pound aggressive rider.
> Go take a peek!
> (update) the forum won't let me post a link cuz I just signed up. I guess just go to YouTube and search: "Burton Step Ons vs 350lbs rider" sorry for the trouble.


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## CelliniKS (Mar 23, 2015)

Liontaryist said:


> Hey guys/gals
> Someone by the name "Snow bank" brought this forum to my attention so I thought I'd share some dynamic footage of the Step Ons in use. I've got 8 days on my pair and I'm a 350 pound aggressive rider.
> Go take a peek!
> (update) the forum won't let me post a link cuz I just signed up. I guess just go to YouTube and search: "Burton Step Ons vs 350lbs rider" sorry for the trouble.


Here is the link https://youtu.be/f79k98UsR-U
It is a really good video to demonstrate the about of movement and foot role the system allows. Nothing like the step in's of yesteryear.

Edit: oops snowbank beat me too it.


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## f00bar (Mar 6, 2014)

I totally was not expecting that much play in the toes. That seems way different than straps. Not saying if that is good or bad, just not what I envisioned.


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## snowbank (Nov 19, 2017)

f00bar said:


> I totally was not expecting that much play in the toes. That seems way different than straps. Not saying if that is good or bad, just not what I envisioned.


Yeah me neither. I found this video of traditional straps to compare. It's weird because the strap version looks so much more fixed to the binding, but the step ons have a much more locked in feel almost like a ski boot at the heel.


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## CelliniKS (Mar 23, 2015)

f00bar said:


> I totally was not expecting that much play in the toes. That seems way different than straps. Not saying if that is good or bad, just not what I envisioned.


It is probably pretty similar to the amount of movement in a regular binding, it's just easier to see with the focus point of the cleat. You have to imaging those straps are stretching and flexing as they are being pushed and pulled against. Even just the compression of the material used in the strap during a turn. One of the things Burton said led them to this final design was that they needed to mimic the foot roll/movement you get in normal strap bindings so that it felt natural. Also note that this guy is 350 pounds so he probably gets a little move flex/movement than the average sized rider.


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## Liontaryist (Dec 4, 2017)

f00bar said:


> I totally was not expecting that much play in the toes. That seems way different than straps. Not saying if that is good or bad, just not what I envisioned.


I was surprised at how similar the feel was to my Burton Ruler Boots with Malavita Bindings, minus the pressure points and an added, much desired, predictability in transitioning from toe to heel. Unfortunately, I got rid of my malavitas or I'd compare the two.
I'd be willing to bet that my old traditional setup would've shown even more toe movement. Let me point out that even though the Step Ons allow for a lot of play nose to tail, the toe cleats catch the toe hooks so solidly, it makes for a more responsive feel toe to heel. That's the beauty of this system, it seems to be great for both freestyle as well as freeride. It's got nice play to allow for powerful ollies and presses/tweaks, yet a solid toe/heel response for guys who just like to carve. All that said, I would have to say I was pleasently surprised at how much of a freestyle feel this setup has.


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

f00bar said:


> I totally was not expecting that much play in the toes. That seems way different than straps. Not saying if that is good or bad, just not what I envisioned.


Pointless. Now bindings have a ton of movement. So does EST, and pretty much any binding with some sort of plate technology (like Arbor, Rome, etc).

Makes no difference if your boots move when on heelside because your pressuring the highback, that's where the response comes from. On toeside, well, you're pressing down and your boots are clipped to the back; not much movement is going to happen that will cost response.

I trust the people I know and what I have personally seen. Not the anonymous 1st post reddit crew.


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

Liontaryist said:


> Hey guys/gals
> Someone by the name "Snow bank" brought this forum to my attention so I thought I'd share some dynamic footage of the Step Ons in use. I've got 8 days on my pair and I'm a 350 pound aggressive rider.
> Go take a peek!
> (update) the forum won't let me post a link cuz I just signed up. I guess just go to YouTube and search: "Burton Step Ons vs 350lbs rider" sorry for the trouble.


Do you guys know Buncha_cunts from Reddit too?
Check him out, he's awesome.

He's got the same M.O. as Snowbank and you. You should get along just fine.


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

CelliniKS said:


> It is probably pretty similar to the amount of movement in a regular binding, it's just easier to see with the focus point of the cleat. You have to imaging those straps are stretching and flexing as they are being pushed and pulled against. Even just the compression of the material used in the strap during a turn. One of the things Burton said led them to this final design was that they needed to mimic the foot roll/movement you get in normal strap bindings so that it felt natural. Also note that this guy is 350 pounds so he probably gets a little move flex/movement than the average sized rider.


Listen to people like this guy ^


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## f00bar (Mar 6, 2014)

F1EA said:


> Pointless. Now bindings have a ton of movement. So does EST, and pretty much any binding with some sort of plate technology (like Arbor, Rome, etc).
> 
> Makes no difference if your boots move when on heelside because your pressuring the highback, that's where the response comes from. On toeside, well, you're pressing down and your boots are clipped to the back; not much movement is going to happen that will cost response.
> 
> I trust the people I know and what I have personally seen. Not the anonymous 1st post reddit crew.


By a ton you mean the amount that you can compress some bushings. I'd hate to see how you define a fuck ton 

You're spot on on the high back though, the toe movement was so much and unexpected it kept me from thinking about the whole picture.


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## Liontaryist (Dec 4, 2017)

F1EA said:


> Pointless. Now bindings have a ton of movement. So does EST, and pretty much any binding with some sort of plate technology (like Arbor, Rome, etc).
> 
> Makes no difference if your boots move when on heelside because your pressuring the highback, that's where the response comes from. On toeside, well, you're pressing down and your boots are clipped to the back; not much movement is going to happen that will cost response.
> 
> I trust the people I know and what I have personally seen. Not the anonymous 1st post reddit crew.


Good call. It's also worth noting how much more pressure I'm putting on the toes than the average sized rider. Exactly twice the amount of pressure! My main point of posting the footage was to prove even a big guy like me won't pop out of the things.


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## CelliniKS (Mar 23, 2015)

F1EA said:


> Do you guys know Buncha_cunts from Reddit too?
> Check him out, he's awesome.
> 
> He's got the same M.O. as Snowbank and you. You should get along just fine.


Now hold up, I don't think Liontaryist and Snowbank have the same or even similar points. Snowbank is saying he doesn't trust the system (and I guess Buncha_cunts as well), while Liontaryist is saying he 100% trusts the system. I thought that it was a neat video (while not the original intent of the video) to point out the difference this revisited step on system has when compared to the old step in stiff metal plate no movement welded to the board type bindings.



F1EA said:


> Listen to people like this guy ^


Not sure if this is sarcasm or not.

Edit: after re-reading your posts, I don't think you were being sarcastic, and we are in agreement about the boot movement in a normal strap binding.


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## Liontaryist (Dec 4, 2017)

CelliniKS said:


> Now hold up, I don't think Liontaryist and Snowbank have the same or even similar points. Snowbank is saying he doesn't trust the system (and I guess Buncha_cunts as well), while Liontaryist is saying he 100% trusts the system. I thought that it was a neat video (while not the original intent of tshe video) to point out the difference this revisited step on system has when compared to the old step in stiff metal plate no movement welded to the board type bindings.
> 
> 
> 
> Not sure if this is sarcasm or not.


Ya, wait... WHAT??? I came to the forum because Snowbank kept criticizing the Step Ons. Go look at the thread he started in the comment section isnthe video. If anything, I came in here to defend myself from Snowbank. Notice my title? "Talk is cheap" that was directed at Snowbank hahaha


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## snowbank (Nov 19, 2017)

Liontaryist said:


> CelliniKS said:
> 
> 
> > Now hold up, I don't think Liontaryist and Snowbank have the same or even similar points. Snowbank is saying he doesn't trust the system (and I guess Buncha_cunts as well), while Liontaryist is saying he 100% trusts the system. I thought that it was a neat video (while not the original intent of tshe video) to point out the difference this revisited step on system has when compared to the old step in stiff metal plate no movement welded to the board type bindings.
> ...


Dude I respect your take and think it’s great your experience and I like your riding style. Fluid as fuck. I didn’t realize how polarizing this tech is. It’s like trump v Obama. I realize I post all over but there is another guy who posts all over shitting on anyone who speaks against step on and marvels at them. I think it IS old tech. Three points have been done. What’s hard to come by is people stress testing them which takes time. I respect you and wasn’t trying to make you defend anything.


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

CelliniKS said:


> Not sure if this is sarcasm or not.
> 
> Edit: after re-reading your posts, I don't think you were being sarcastic, and we are in agreement about the boot movement in a normal strap binding.


lol 
No, your post is fine.


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## snowbank (Nov 19, 2017)

Also yeah I did talk to bunch a cunts and he said he is starting to test product. That he rides them and likes them. He told me Burton didn’t have intentions for this to be big they just wanted to get the product out there which is why the binding is so bare bones. I don’t know why I keep getting lumped in because my binding malfunctioned and a guy on reddit. I don’t trust them. That’s me and my take.


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## Liontaryist (Dec 4, 2017)

snowbank said:


> Dude I respect your take and think it’s great your experience and I like your riding style. Fluid as fuck. I didn’t realize how polarizing this tech is. It’s like trump v Obama. I realize I post all over but there is another guy who posts all over shitting on anyone who speaks against step on and marvels at them. I think it IS old tech. Three points have been done. What’s hard to come by is people stress testing them which takes time. I respect you and wasn’t trying to make you defend anything.


I don't understand why you bothered buying a pair. The Step Ons are 'obviously' new tech. This is some next level tech going on here with the points of contact still allowing the sole of the boot to have complete contact with the board/baseplate, the "living hinge" toe hooks, etc.
It seems like you're a Union Binding plant with a goal to fill everyone's mind with doubt. That's what it seems like. If you're so against the system, return your pair and let someone who's eager to but them try them. At what point do you just let people enjoy themselves? I'm not saying this is the best binding in the world, but I'm saying I'm in love with it (for me) and I'm trying to share my experience with it and answer any questions people have.


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## ek9max (Apr 8, 2013)

snowbank said:


> eli783 said:
> 
> 
> > Didnt your defected binding not clip in at all?
> ...





snowbank said:


> F1EA said:
> 
> 
> > I think the benefits are very minimal...
> ...


I’ve seen you posting about these all over the forum and YouTube and such. 

I understand how you had a defective product. Since burton got you all fixed up, have you been on the slopes yet?

You’ve been doing a great job giving these bindings a terrible reputation thus far.


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## coloradodirtbag (Feb 9, 2017)

https://www.reddit.com/r/snowboarding/comments/7g19c1/update_on_burton_step_on_malfunction/


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## chomps1211 (Mar 30, 2011)

:facepalm3:


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

f00bar said:


> By a ton you mean the amount that you can compress some bushings. I'd hate to see how you define a fuck ton
> 
> You're spot on on the high back though, the toe movement was so much and unexpected it kept me from thinking about the whole picture.


Even more. We're taking about pulling here, so when you press on the highback on a heelside, your front bushings lift up an imperial metric fuck ton  As the bushings wear out, it's even more. Plus, you get play/stretch from the straps as well. If any bindings were dead-tight, everyone would hate them.

In any case, there is play. And that's ok.
Similar with Arbor, Rome and a few other bindings which considerably reduce the binding footprint and have "power points" etc..


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## snowbank (Nov 19, 2017)

Enjoy your seasons!


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## Liontaryist (Dec 4, 2017)

F1EA said:


> Do you guys know Buncha_cunts from Reddit too?
> Check him out, he's awesome.
> 
> He's got the same M.O. as Snowbank and you. You should get along just fine.


Not sure how you thought I was on the same page as Snowbank, I'm a total StepOn fanboy. I posted a youtube vid to share my experience, it unexpectedly became a helpful Q&A for folks until Snowbank came along like "a fly in the ointment" with repetitive questions and concerns that were all over the board. He posted a link to this forum, so here I am just to test the waters.

Ive finally taken the time to review Snowbanks' footage of his malfunction. Even though the footage is less than desirable, I think I know what's going on. The primary position is tough to engage if your leg isn't within a 90 degree angle to the binding. A way to assist in engaging it is to rock/sway your leg back and forth, for lack of a better description. In one of his videos it looks like he wasn't even engaging the primary position, yanking the boot back out, then claiming it was malfunction. It's hard to believe the spring was broken because there are 2 springs at the ready in case one breaks. If the spring was broken or even perhaps missing entirely (I can't tell with the footage he provided), it's an obvious manufacturer defect and not something to worry about while on the slopes.


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## snowbank (Nov 19, 2017)

Liontaryist said:


> Not sure how you thought I was on the same page as Snowbank, I'm a total StepOn fanboy. I posted a youtube vid to share my experience, it unexpectedly became a helpful Q&A for folks until Snowbank came along like "a fly in the ointment" with repetitive questions and concerns that were all over the board. He posted a link to this forum, so here I am just to test the waters.
> 
> Ive finally taken the time to review Snowbanks' footage of his malfunction. Even though the footage is less than desirable, I think I know what's going on. The primary position is tough to engage if your leg isn't within a 90 degree angle to the binding. A way to assist in engaging it is to rock/sway your leg back and forth, for lack of a better description. In one of his videos it looks like he wasn't even engaging the primary position, yanking the boot back out, then claiming it was malfunction. It's hard to believe the spring was broken because there are 2 springs at the ready in case one breaks. If the spring was broken or even perhaps missing entirely (I can't tell with the footage he provided), it's an obvious manufacturer defect and not something to worry about while on the slopes.


This is why, as you say, I am a "fly in the ointment." No matter what I say or how I explain it, I am wrong and too dumb to use bindings. It's not like I set out to make these things fail. I tried them several times fuck around with the boots on the binding without my foot in it. I then said hey, let me test it out attached to something and part of why no board is because I had a credit and wanted to use it at the same store for a board if I didn't keep these. 

Burton confirmed there was an issue with the spring. The first time it's happened they said. They said that. If they said, oh we found nothing wrong, I'd leave it at that and say wow I need to apologize to Burton and you guys. But they told me there was something in the spring. You can see in this video






that the clip is IN the binding cleat. Fully. The lever is down. Everything looks right, and out comes the boot. I have nothing to gain by claiming malfunction. I just want to ride on something that works.

edit: the spring wasnt missing either. don't remember exactly but it was something catching on the spring or in it.


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## Liontaryist (Dec 4, 2017)

snowbank said:


> This is why, as you say, I am a "fly in the ointment." No matter what I say or how I explain it, I am wrong and too dumb to use bindings. It's not like I set out to make these things fail. I tried them several times fuck around with the boots on the binding without my foot in it. I then said hey, let me test it out attached to something and part of why no board is because I had a credit and wanted to use it at the same store for a board if I didn't keep these.
> 
> Burton confirmed there was an issue with the spring. The first time it's happened they said. They said that. If they said, oh we found nothing wrong, I'd leave it at that and say wow I need to apologize to Burton and you guys. But they told me there was something in the spring. You can see in this video
> 
> ...


I'm not calling you dumb and I don't think you are at all. If anything I'd say overly inquisitive. I'm sorry, but that footage is lacking the detail I need to see if the boot really was engaged in the primary position nor can I see the behavior of the springs or the hook itself. It's just timed in a way that puts everything I want to observe out of view at the worst possible moment. 

I want to get to the bottom of this, and I believe I can with a question... The spring loaded part in the hi-back is called the "heel buckle" I want to know whether or not the heel buckle was spring loaded like it's supposed to be or if it was broken and moving like a dead hinge. Did the heel buckle bounce back when you touched it? If yes, it's very possible your heel buckle was slightly off center, making it difficult for the heel cleat to lock in without moving your leg/ankle left to right like i've mentioned before.


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

Liontaryist said:


> Not sure how you thought I was on the same page as Snowbank, I'm a total StepOn fanboy. I posted a youtube vid to share my experience, it unexpectedly became a helpful Q&A for folks until Snowbank came along like "a fly in the ointment" with repetitive questions and concerns that were all over the board. He posted a link to this forum, so here I am just to test the waters.
> 
> Ive finally taken the time to review Snowbanks' footage of his malfunction. Even though the footage is less than desirable, I think I know what's going on. The primary position is tough to engage if your leg isn't within a 90 degree angle to the binding. A way to assist in engaging it is to rock/sway your leg back and forth, for lack of a better description. In one of his videos it looks like he wasn't even engaging the primary position, yanking the boot back out, then claiming it was malfunction. It's hard to believe the spring was broken because there are 2 springs at the ready in case one breaks. If the spring was broken or even perhaps missing entirely (I can't tell with the footage he provided), it's an obvious manufacturer defect and not something to worry about while on the slopes.


I never said you had the same opinion. Just the same M.O.


----------



## Liontaryist (Dec 4, 2017)

F1EA said:


> I never said you had the same opinion. Just the same M.O.


Hey, just to be crystal clear, my M.O. is to try and help everyone have fun snowboarding as much as I do


----------



## snowbank (Nov 19, 2017)

Liontaryist said:


> snowbank said:
> 
> 
> > I'm not calling you dumb and I don't think you are at all. If anything I'd say overly inquisitive. I'm sorry, but that footage is lacking the detail I need to see if the boot really was engaged in the primary position nor can I see the behavior of the springs or the hook itself. It's just timed in a way that puts everything I want to observe out of view at the worst possible moment.
> ...


----------



## Liontaryist (Dec 4, 2017)

snowbank said:


> Liontaryist said:
> 
> 
> > What is there to get to the bottom of? Boot is in the binding. Metal clip is in the cleat. Sole of boot is on the padding fully. You can see it. If I can’t know from that it’s not in I don’t know what to say. I don’t have the bindings or boots anymore. They have them.
> ...


----------



## snowbank (Nov 19, 2017)

Liontaryist said:


> snowbank said:
> 
> 
> > Getting to the bottom of what actually was malfunctioning to help put your mind at ease, as well as mine and others. I would need to see the heel cleat and heel buckle up close in action in order to see how it was malfunctioning, those are the only parts that would be causing this malfunction.
> ...


----------



## SGboarder (Jun 24, 2012)

snowbank said:


> Big question for me is if companies will want to license it. Doesn't seem like the channel system has caught on.


Channel system is not widely used because many other manufacturers do not have the capability to build boards that way.


----------



## Liontaryist (Dec 4, 2017)

snowbank said:


> Liontaryist said:
> 
> 
> > I'm not worried about my shit working. I wouldn't take it out if it weren't. Only Burton knows why this happened, and all I got was a short answer about the spring, and that this was the first time ever it's happened. Which I still find hard to believe. Believe me or not, but Burton told me the binding clip, not cleat was the problem. People seem to not believe anything I say anyhow, so not sure I will convince you.
> ...


----------



## SGboarder (Jun 24, 2012)

snowbank said:


> Dude I respect your take and think it’s great your experience and I like your riding style. Fluid as fuck. I didn’t realize how polarizing this tech is. It’s like trump v Obama. I realize I post all over but there is another guy who posts all over shitting on anyone who speaks against step on and marvels at them. I think it IS old tech. Three points have been done. What’s hard to come by is people stress testing them which takes time. I respect you and wasn’t trying to make you defend anything.





snowbank said:


> Also yeah I did talk to bunch a cunts and he said he is starting to test product. That he rides them and likes them. He told me Burton didn’t have intentions for this to be big they just wanted to get the product out there which is why the binding is so bare bones. I don’t know why I keep getting lumped in because my binding malfunctioned and a guy on reddit. I don’t trust them. That’s me and my take.


It is *you* who is polarizing and *you* who keeps lumping you in. Nobody else. By the looks of it you had a defective pair of bindings, that happens with all binding types (regular straps, rear entry, old school clickers) and has nothing to do with StepOn technology. Yet *you* try raise doubts about the technology all over the place (here, YouTube, Reddit).
Time to STFU.


----------



## snowbank (Nov 19, 2017)

SGboarder said:


> It is *you* who is polarizing and *you* who keeps lumping you in. Nobody else. By the looks of it you had a defective pair of bindings, that happens with all binding types (regular straps, rear entry, old school clickers) and has nothing to do with StepOn technology. Yet *you* try raise doubts about the technology all over the place (here, YouTube, Reddit).
> Time to STFU.


I've said it is a defective binding. I've said Burton took care of it. Quickly. I said I know I am in the minority. Most people I see on the fence are saying they want to wait out a season. I can see why. I don't think they are fully ready for primetime. When the release video came out everyone on here seemed to say they will not last. A lot of people have doubts about the step on step ins. They won't catch on, you'll pop out of the binding. I don't know the answer to those questions. Everything I've heard from people has been largely positive. 

But people call me out as a liar for saying my binding didn't work! I agree with you 100% that this is a defective product that happens, but I can still have doubt. When no one listens it's frustrating. When people call me a fake or that my story is bullshit, I will defend my experience. Look at how Burton rolled this stuff out. Only people who they know will give positive feedback review it. It raises questions for me. I was skeptical the first time in the 1990's and I was right. I realize this is 2.0. I hope it gets more people out there.


----------



## Deacon (Mar 2, 2013)

snowbank said:


> I've said it is a defective binding. I've said Burton took care of it. Quickly. I said I know I am in the minority. Most people I see on the fence are saying they want to wait out a season. I can see why. I don't think they are fully ready for primetime. When the release video came out everyone on here seemed to say they will not last. A lot of people have doubts about the step on step ins. They won't catch on, you'll pop out of the binding. I don't know the answer to those questions. Everything I've heard from people has been largely positive.
> 
> But people call me out as a liar for saying my binding didn't work! I agree with you 100% that this is a defective product that happens, but I can still have doubt. When no one listens it's frustrating. When people call me a fake or that my story is bullshit, I will defend my experience. Look at how Burton rolled this stuff out. Only people who they know will give positive feedback review it. It raises questions for me. I was skeptical the first time in the 1990's and I was right. I realize this is 2.0. I hope it gets more people out there.


So you’ve been riding since the 90’s but your testing solution was to bolt the bindings to a piece of plywood, not an actual snowboard?!? 

This robs you immediately of credibility. 

Just saying.


----------



## snowbank (Nov 19, 2017)

Deacon said:


> So you’ve been riding since the 90’s but your testing solution was to bolt the bindings to a piece of plywood, not an actual snowboard?!?
> 
> This robs you immediately of credibility.
> 
> Just saying.


Burton demonstrated these things on a table bolted to nothing. If it robs me of credibility, fine. I am sharing my first impressions here. And defending myself. Does it matter how I tested it when the result was faulty and Burton confirmed it? I improvised and got the same result that was proven by the manufacturer. Ideally I would have a board and I will soon.


----------



## jstar (Sep 21, 2016)

snowbank said:


> Deacon said:
> 
> 
> > So you’ve been riding since the 90’s but your testing solution was to bolt the bindings to a piece of plywood, not an actual snowboard?!?
> ...


Damn dude, you just can’t let this go can ya... Anyone else kinda feel sorry for this guy...no snowboard too.


----------



## snowbank (Nov 19, 2017)

jstar said:


> Damn dude, you just can’t let this go can ya... Anyone else kinda feel sorry for this guy...no snowboard too.


Other people aren't letting go either.


----------



## Snow Hound (Jul 21, 2012)

Never was so much written by so many about so little.


----------



## chomps1211 (Mar 30, 2011)

snowbank said:


> Other people aren't letting go either.


----------



## snowklinger (Aug 30, 2011)

*as in all nature, the shape of the shortbus has purpose (troll fitted)*

dcsnow in 2017 :


----------



## kosmoz (Dec 27, 2013)

I'll buy these for my GF, so she had a better time on the hill, and that means I also will have a better time  The availability is a problem though, and I won't buy them online, without trying , because Burton boot sizing is shit, my GF has 5.5 size feet (36 EUR), but wears 8 size (39 eur) Burton Emerald boots. Brother had size 10 Salomon Faction and then went for size 11 Burton Ambush.


----------



## Liontaryist (Dec 4, 2017)

:nerd:


----------



## zc1 (Feb 20, 2017)

Liontaryist said:


>


That should work better (video didn't show up).


----------



## SGboarder (Jun 24, 2012)

kosmoz said:


> I'll buy these for my GF, so she had a better time on the hill, and that means I also will have a better time  The availability is a problem though, and I won't buy them online, without trying , because Burton boot sizing is shit, my GF has 5.5 size feet (36 EUR), but wears 8 size (39 eur) Burton Emerald boots. Brother had size 10 Salomon Faction and then went for size 11 Burton Ambush.


She (and your brother) would have an even better time with properly fitting boots...


----------



## Liontaryist (Dec 4, 2017)

Thanks! I posted that with a weak signal. I thought it just wasn't loading for me when I checked it.


----------



## kosmoz (Dec 27, 2013)

SGboarder said:


> She (and your brother) would have an even better time with properly fitting boots...


no shit, sherlock :nerd:


----------



## SGboarder (Jun 24, 2012)

kosmoz said:


> no shit, sherlock :nerd:


Hey, you're the one with the clown shoe gang...


----------



## kosmoz (Dec 27, 2013)

SGboarder said:


> Hey, you're the one with the clown shoe gang...


oh rly? So why the insole of size 11 burton is even a tad shorter than size 10 salomon's? And the insole of women's size 8 Burton boots goes well in size 5,5 walking boots (put remind insoles in snowboard boots)?


----------



## Liontaryist (Dec 4, 2017)

kosmoz said:


> oh rly? So why the insole of size 11 burton is even a tad shorter than size 10 salomon's? And the insole of women's size 8 Burton boots goes well in size 5,5 walking boots (put remind insoles in snowboard boots)?


I use Super Feet insoles that fit perfectly into my Merrill US Men's 12 wide hiking shoes.
I have to cut away a good 1/2" inch of those same insoles to fit a Burton size 12 boot.
Both fit like a glove. Burton's reduced footprint at play... must be magic.


----------



## SGboarder (Jun 24, 2012)

kosmoz said:


> oh rly? So why the insole of size 11 burton is even a tad shorter than size 10 salomon's? And the insole of women's size 8 Burton boots goes well in size 5,5 walking boots (put remind insoles in snowboard boots)?


Because snowboard boots and walking boots do (and are intended to) fit very differently.


----------



## kosmoz (Dec 27, 2013)

Liontaryist said:


> I use Super Feet insoles that fit perfectly into my Merrill US Men's 12 wide hiking shoes.
> I have to cut away a good 1/2" inch of those same insoles to fit a Burton size 12 boot.
> Both fit like a glove. Burton's reduced footprint at play... must be magic.


Footprint reduction you say...  ofc size 10 burton is smaller footprint than size 10 Vans, but to fit size 10 foot you need size 11 burton and size 11 burton has a footprint ~ to size 10 Vans :grin: 

All this is a joke, but from 4 persons (GF, brother and two friends with Burton Moto), who has Burton boots, none of them has them same size as their regular shoes, always bigger.


----------



## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

kosmoz said:


> All this is a joke, but from 4 persons (GF, brother and two friends with Burton Moto), who has Burton boots, none of them has them same size as their regular shoes, always bigger.


This just proofs that your friends/gang all share the same issue (call it preference, if you like) to ride big boots.

Just cos a connected group of ppl do the same in the same way doesn't automatically make it the right way . Could as well be an herd effect.


----------



## snowklinger (Aug 30, 2011)

the moto is a sock with laces lets be truthful


----------



## CelliniKS (Mar 23, 2015)

snowklinger said:


> the moto is a sock with laces lets be truthful


Seriously though. I had motos in size 11, got Ruler SO's size 10 this year. I rode the Moto's one last time this season after test fitting the Rulers. I couldn't believe I put up with that. The heel hold alone blew me away, I was like woah is this what a snowboard boot is supposed to feel like. The motos liner has nothing to it, its just a tube. Couple that with the super softness of the boot, and the fact that it was a size too large, and it really did feel like I was just wear a sock or regular soft sneakers.


----------



## kosmoz (Dec 27, 2013)

neni said:


> This just proofs that your friends/gang all share the same issue (call it preference, if you like) to ride big boots.
> 
> Just cos a connected group of ppl do the same in the same way doesn't automatically make it the right way . Could as well be an herd effect.


oh cmon', you are all so clever for yourself, that it's hard for you to believe someone else knows how to fit boots. Believe me, I also thought that 3size bigger boots for my gf is a mistake, but measured her feet lenght, insole lenght, put her standing on insole alone - she definitelly needs womens 39 Burton Emerald, when she wears size 36 everything else.


----------



## SGboarder (Jun 24, 2012)

kosmoz said:


> oh cmon', you are all so clever for yourself, that it's hard for you to believe someone else knows how to fit boots. *Believe me*, I also thought that 3size bigger boots for my gf is a mistake, but measured her feet lenght, insole lenght, put her standing on insole alone - she definitelly needs womens 39 Burton Emerald, when she wears size 36 everything else.


No, nobody's gonna believe that without any evidence to support it.


----------



## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

kosmoz said:


> oh cmon', you are all so clever for yourself, that it's hard for you to believe someone else knows how to fit boots. Believe me, I also thought that 3size bigger boots for my gf is a mistake, but measured her feet lenght, insole lenght, put her standing on insole alone - she definitelly needs womens 39 Burton Emerald, when she wears size 36 everything else.


Lol, what a nonsense. You're such a troll.


----------



## Snow Hound (Jul 21, 2012)

snowklinger said:


> the moto is a sock with laces lets be truthful


No! Socks are comfy.


----------



## eli783 (Oct 24, 2012)

kosmoz said:


> Footprint reduction you say...  ofc size 10 burton is smaller footprint than size 10 Vans, but to fit size 10 foot you need size 11 burton and size 11 burton has a footprint ~ to size 10 Vans :grin:
> 
> All this is a joke, but from 4 persons (GF, brother and two friends with Burton Moto), who has Burton boots, none of them has them same size as their regular shoes, always bigger.


my buddy says the same shit and is cranking on his lace all the time. If you take this thinking into buying Step ons its not gonna be worth. My boots fit perfectly and Im just nervous that they will be mush soon because the boots are soaking up so much energy.


----------



## ek9max (Apr 8, 2013)

eli783 said:


> my buddy says the same shit and is cranking on his lace all the time. If you take this thinking into buying Step ons its not gonna be worth. My boots fit perfectly and Im just nervous that they will be mush soon because the boots are soaking up so much energy.


I have about 20 days in mine now. Yes they are softer than the were originally, they have not softened up more than any other boot I’ve put 20 days on.


----------



## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

ek9max said:


> I have about 20 days in mine now. Yes they are softer than the were originally, they have not softened up more than any other boot I’ve put 20 days on.


You got 20d already??
What. The fuck.:skateboarding:


----------



## ek9max (Apr 8, 2013)

F1EA said:


> You got 20d already??
> What. The fuck.:skateboarding:


Well. I’d say 10 full days. The rest are half days at the in town hill riding some park or goofing around. 

But the boots and bindings have some mileage for sure.


----------



## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

ek9max said:


> Well. I’d say 10 full days. The rest are half days at the in town hill riding some park or goofing around.
> 
> But the boots and bindings have some mileage for sure.


Yeah that's still pretty neat; plenty days already.


----------



## Craig64 (Jul 16, 2015)

kosmoz said:


> Footprint reduction you say...  ofc size 10 burton is smaller footprint than size 10 Vans, but to fit size 10 foot you need size 11 burton and size 11 burton has a footprint ~ to size 10 Vans :grin:
> 
> All this is a joke, but from 4 persons (GF, brother and two friends with Burton Moto), who has Burton boots, none of them has them same size as their regular shoes, always bigger.


100% Agree. I've been a size US13 in all my shoes for the last 30 years but have always been in a US14 Burton boot. Which means I have to max out with Imperials as SLX and Ion only run to 13. My son is 10 1/2 to 11 and he's in US12 SLX.


----------



## coloradodirtbag (Feb 9, 2017)

Craig51 said:


> 100% Agree. I've been a size US13 in all my shoes for the last 30 years but have always been in a US14 Burton boot. Which means I have to max out with Imperials as SLX and Ion only run to 13. My son is 10 1/2 to 11 and he's in US12 SLX.


100% disagree. I'm a size 12 street, ride an 11 SLX.


----------



## Deacon (Mar 2, 2013)

If you are UPSIZING your boot from your street shoe, you are in the wrong size boot. 

Check your mondo size.


----------



## SGboarder (Jun 24, 2012)

Craig51 said:


> 100% Agree. I've been a size US13 in all my shoes for the last 30 years but have always been in a US14 Burton boot. Which means I have to max out with Imperials as SLX and Ion only run to 13. My son is 10 1/2 to 11 and he's in US12 SLX.


Bad move.



coloradodirtbag said:


> 100% disagree. I'm a size 12 street, ride an 11 SLX.





Deacon said:


> If you are UPSIZING your boot from your street shoe, you are in the wrong size boot.
> 
> Check your mondo size.


^^^ What these guys are saying.


----------



## snowbank (Nov 19, 2017)

To everyone who shit on my thread...

https://www.burton.com/us/en/steponupdate


----------



## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

snowbank said:


> To everyone who shit on my thread...
> 
> https://www.burton.com/us/en/steponupdate


I don't think you get it.

Translation: everyone shitting on your thread... will continue to shit on your thread.

Get back to Reddit ya kook.


----------



## snowbank (Nov 19, 2017)

F1EA said:


> I don't think you get it.
> 
> Translation: everyone shitting on your thread... will continue to shit on your thread.
> 
> Get back to Reddit ya kook.


So no one believed me, now you will continue to shit on my thread? Everyone said it was just me being stupid, then it was I got one bad apple. Now it might affect their entire product release. Lol yeah I am a kook for figuring out a problem. :blahblah:


----------



## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

snowbank said:


> So no one believed me, now you will continue to shit on my thread? Everyone said it was just me being stupid, then it was I got one bad apple. Now it might affect their entire product release. Lol yeah I am a kook for figuring out a problem. :blahblah:


Exactly.

People like you is the reason there's a warning saying Hot coffee is hot, and floors are slippery when wet.


----------



## Deacon (Mar 2, 2013)

snowbank said:


> So no one believed me, now you will continue to shit on my thread? Everyone said it was just me being stupid, then it was I got one bad apple. Now it might affect their entire product release. Lol yeah I am a kook for figuring out a problem. :blahblah:


They literally say, “don’t forget to click in all the way!”


----------



## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

Deacon said:


> They literally say, “don’t forget to click in all the way!”


LOL I hadn't read the statement hahah

The statement basically says: don't be a kook and make sure you're clicked all the way :rotfl:


----------



## f00bar (Mar 6, 2014)

From my memory that is not what they originally pitched, which was it was perfectly OK to only be 1 click in and it was totally safe. To me that page reads like a total product recall/rework.

Riding with 1-click was pretty paramount for them to try to cut off people complaining about dealing with snow on the heel.


----------



## snowbank (Nov 19, 2017)

Deacon said:


> snowbank said:
> 
> 
> > So no one believed me, now you will continue to shit on my thread? Everyone said it was just me being stupid, then it was I got one bad apple. Now it might affect their entire product release. Lol yeah I am a kook for figuring out a problem.
> ...


Duh dude. Except if there is snow pack you can’t always.


----------



## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

f00bar said:


> From my memory that is not what they originally pitched, which was it was perfectly OK to only be 1 click in and it was totally safe. To me that page reads like a total product recall/rework.
> 
> Riding with 1-click was pretty paramount for them to try to cut off people complaining about dealing with snow on the heel.


I'm not sure what they "pitched" as I haven't followed much media. Can you provide a source where they state that? ^ 

Also, it is their duty to address any potential issue, even if it comes from 1 guy posting and click baiting on multiple Reddit, YouTube and forums. Some people actually live off this. 

Companies even recall and make updates JUST to avoid lawsuits. Why do you think snowboard bindings come with a leash?

Does anybody actually know Snowbank? Is any of his Reddit, YouTube addresses etc tied to a real name, a real account with more than a 1st post to "document this very important issue"?

How many REAL people with real accounts have come forward with this "issue".


----------



## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

snowbank said:


> Duh dude. Except if there is snow pack you can’t always.


That's why you have hands. To remove the snowpack. Like people you know....... do with normal bidings.

Duh.


----------



## snowbank (Nov 19, 2017)

F1EA said:


> f00bar said:
> 
> 
> > From my memory that is not what they originally pitched, which was it was perfectly OK to only be 1 click in and it was totally safe. To me that page reads like a total product recall/rework.
> ...


I don’t reveal personal info online for this reason. You’ve been saying dickish shit this whole time. 

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=geGO6vW0ac8

Go to 12:05 and you will see them market this as a a product that won’t fail in the first locking position.


----------



## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

Actually.... I'm done discussing this junk.

Snowbank:
Can you provide a single account from where your issue has been documented with your real name? Real address, real YouTube account??

This will make or break your argument.

Lots of people know me here. Also, my YouTube account has other 'personal' videos with my real name, real life.

People know ekmax same with tons of other people here. By real name. Real YouTube, etc.

ALL of your accounts are 1st post wonders.

This ain't Reddit. Man up.

Unless you can provide that ^ STFU and get back to Reddit. You kook.


----------



## f00bar (Mar 6, 2014)

F1EA said:


> I'm not sure what they "pitched" as I haven't followed much media. Can you provide a source where they state that? ^


Sorry, but as I say, just from my memory. Logically however what is the point of having a 2 position system where the first position is unreliable and you're told not to use it.

And Burton isn't going to potentially replace every singe part for every binding they have shipped unless they have reason.

I'd be interested to see the replacement part side by side with the new to try to determine if there are any engineering changes put in or if it just comes down to some number with manufacturing flaws.


oops, deleted wrong stuff from the quote. just saying I have no literature to back it up.


----------



## snowbank (Nov 19, 2017)

F1EA said:


> Actually.... I'm done discussing this junk.
> 
> Snowbank:
> Can you provide a single account from where your issue has been documented with your real name? Real address, real YouTube account??
> ...


Why on fucking earth would I give you my real name? All you do is call me a kook. I honestly don’t know what you would do with that. Every thread you just question my identity. What the fuck does it matter? I posted an issue AND WAS RIGHT. I helped Burton make a more secure product. I’ve told things like they were and care about my info being public. It’s cool you post everything I don’t. I just found out this forum existed and I’ve been out of the sport a while.

The way you behave is the reason I don’t put my name on here or anywhere.


----------



## CelliniKS (Mar 23, 2015)

snowbank said:


> So no one believed me, now you will continue to shit on my thread? Everyone said it was just me being stupid, then it was I got one bad apple. Now it might affect their entire product release. Lol yeah I am a kook for figuring out a problem. :blahblah:


Why would you stoke the fire? You're asking to get flamed. 

Most people never disagreed/said your findings were impossible (yes, some people did). In fact, when Burton confirmed there was an issue and sent you another pair, everyone should have agreed that you at least had a defective unit (again some didn't, they were wrong, good job). The problem was (and still is with these type of comments) your approach to the subject. You started coming right out the gate saying this product flat out didn't work (not true). Then you refused to see the other side of the argument (many on here were also guilty of that against you). Then you post videos and pictures that seem to be hiding things/not showing the full picture (kind of like a blurry big foot picture), whether that was your intention or just bad camera work doesn't matter if you are showing them to a skeptic. Finally you exhibited weird behavior like getting a factory replacement from Burton yet still buying another pair even though you said you weren't going to use them . I assume you were collecting and selling them for profit (which would not be the righteous thing to do if you were in fact only concerned with the safety of other boarders).

In any case I'm sure everyone is glad that Burton is taking steps which are very quick and easy to correct this issue.


----------



## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

snowbank said:


> Why on fucking earth would I give you my real name? All you do is call me a kook. I honestly don’t know what you would do with that. Every thread you just question my identity. What the fuck does it matter? I posted an issue AND WAS RIGHT. I helped Burton make a more secure product. I’ve told things like they were and care about my info being public. It’s cool you post everything I don’t. I just found out this forum existed and I’ve been out of the sport a while.
> 
> The way you behave is the reason I don’t put my name on here or anywhere.


BS.
You had never met me before you created all your other fake accounts.

Everyone refuting your BS claims use either their own name or their real accounts.

Again. Man up or STFU.


----------



## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

CelliniKS said:


> Why would you stoke the fire? You're asking to get flamed.
> 
> Most people never disagreed/said your findings were impossible (yes, some people did). In fact, when Burton confirmed there was an issue and sent you another pair, everyone should have agreed that you at least had a defective unit (again some didn't, they were wrong, good job). The problem was (and still is with these type of comments) your approach to the subject. You started coming right out the gate saying this product flat out didn't work (not true). Then you refused to see the other side of the argument (many on here were also guilty of that against you). Then you post videos and pictures that seem to be hiding things/not showing the full picture (kind of like a blurry big foot picture), whether that was your intention or just bad camera work doesn't matter if you are showing them to a skeptic. Finally you exhibited weird behavior like getting a factory replacement from Burton yet still buying another pair even though you said you weren't going to use them . I assume you were collecting and selling them for profit (which would not be the righteous thing to do if you were in fact only concerned with the safety of other boarders).
> 
> In any case I'm sure everyone is glad that Burton is taking steps which are very quick and easy to correct this issue.


Exactly.

Like I said... I would have banned him from the very 1st post.


----------



## snowbank (Nov 19, 2017)

CelliniKS said:


> snowbank said:
> 
> 
> > So no one believed me, now you will continue to shit on my thread? Everyone said it was just me being stupid, then it was I got one bad apple. Now it might affect their entire product release. Lol yeah I am a kook for figuring out a problem.
> ...


I admitted the title was too much. I apologized for that. But I can’t change the title. 

Are you serious? Many people said I was a liar and yeah I did crop that video close because I’m not publicly posting shit to be recognized. People want me taking selfies next to the bindings. 

I did see the other side. I said it may just be mine and I don’t doubt good experiences. I never said these suck no one buy them. I had my doubts which were founded. 

As for why u have so many pairs. Not really anyone’s business. I also had an extra pair of boots that Burton sent by mistake. I could have easily kept them or returned them for a refund or sold them. I didn’t I told Burton and returned them because they weren’t mine to keep.


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## snowbank (Nov 19, 2017)

F1EA said:


> snowbank said:
> 
> 
> > Why on fucking earth would I give you my real name? All you do is call me a kook. I honestly don’t know what you would do with that. Every thread you just question my identity. What the fuck does it matter? I posted an issue AND WAS RIGHT. I helped Burton make a more secure product. I’ve told things like they were and care about my info being public. It’s cool you post everything I don’t. I just found out this forum existed and I’ve been out of the sport a while.
> ...


What? Never said I met you. lol. Not interested in ever meeting you. You are telling me to shut the fuck up and then want me to give you my name. HA. would you like my credit card number too? No thanks


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## snowbank (Nov 19, 2017)

f00bar said:


> F1EA said:
> 
> 
> > I'm not sure what they "pitched" as I haven't followed much media. Can you provide a source where they state that? ^
> ...


The cleat just looks wider...I don’t see much of a change. I think that’s to account for the spring not aligning.


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## CelliniKS (Mar 23, 2015)

snowbank said:


> I admitted the title was too much. I apologized for that. But I can’t change the title.
> 
> Are you serious? Many people said I was a liar and yeah I did crop that video close because I’m not publicly posting shit to be recognized. People want me taking selfies next to the bindings.


Yes I'm serious. If your first post went like this "Potential Defect in new Burton Step on's: Hey guy's I believe I may have found a potential defect where the first engagement point does not stay fully locked in. Here is an example of me using the boot as it was intended (not with my hand and screwed to a piece of plywood), and look it just pops right out. I have already contacted Burton, and they will be sending me a replacement boot due to the defect on mine. I'm not saying it is a failed product, but there may be some defects and for this season I will be returning my pair and most certainly not buying another pair to sell. Be sure to test your gear before going to the mountain", the response would have been much different. Yes, you still would have some haters that wont give up their points, but mostly you'd have a positive response.

Also, no I don't expect you to take selfies next to the bindings, just present a full picture. I don't agree with giving out personal information online unless it is necessary, too many wacko's out there these days.


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

snowbank said:


> What? Never said I met you. lol. Not interested in ever meeting you. You are telling me to shut the fuck up and then want me to give you my name. HA. would you like my credit card number too? No thanks


Lol trying to get clever now eh
Of course you've never met me duh. But other people have. 

Nobody has ever met YOU, however.

Nobody's also met you on your other fake Reddit accounts. Or on your fake YouTube accounts.

I'm not telling you to STFU AND give me your name. I'm saying STFU OR give your name/identity. Different things 

But yeah.... keep wording your way around it.

You're fake news buddy.


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

f00bar said:


> Sorry, but as I say, just from my memory. Logically however what is the point of having a 2 position system where the first position is unreliable and you're told not to use it.
> 
> And Burton isn't going to potentially replace every singe part for every binding they have shipped unless they have reason.
> 
> ...


I'd be much more interested in seeing REAL people with the "issue".


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## snowbank (Nov 19, 2017)

CelliniKS said:


> snowbank said:
> 
> 
> > I admitted the title was too much. I apologized for that. But I can’t change the title.
> ...



You are right that anything could always be worded better. You have the jist of my post and I did give Burton credit for fixing the problem. I said I was contacting them. They also told me this product was totally reliable when they replaced them only to issue a recall a week later. People make a living bu companies aren’t always trying to be forthcoming too. They want to make money.


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## snowbank (Nov 19, 2017)

F1EA said:


> f00bar said:
> 
> 
> > Sorry, but as I say, just from my memory. Logically however what is the point of having a 2 position system where the first position is unreliable and you're told not to use it.
> ...


Thought you were done?


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## killclimbz (Aug 10, 2007)

Snowbank, I am sick of your crap. You continually post in the same subject matter that didn't go your way and are upset over. When someone doesn't respond they way you want you report the post? Really? Put on some big boy pants. Most of the responses are because you were being a jerk and you got called out. You don't get to control how a thread goes. You put it out there and see what you get. We locked the offending thread and yet here you are and you can't let it go. 

So here is the deal. Someone who complains that they are always the victim on a forum, is generally the problem. You are trying to become one. Do not post again in a Burton Step on thread. One more post about step ons and you are banned. End of story, no review, no warning. I respectfully ask the other forum members to report your posts about step ons if you choose to continue on this path. 

You can continue to be a member here or you can leave. That is up to you.


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