# Need help to choose freeride/carve board



## Tantin (Apr 17, 2017)

Hi guys! Seems like you have a great community here, so I would be glad for your help. Sorry for my possible mistakes - English is not my native language.

I'm intermediate rider, 180cm (5' 11') 72 kg (~160lb). Interesting about carving a groomers and freeride in a pow day. No park, no jumps. And switch is not in priority. Don't want a quiver, looking for a one-for-everything board. Currently riding K2 Turbo Dream 162. Love it, but looking for something more cambered and (maybe?) stiff. I understand that the best way to choose a right board is just to demo it, but it's really difficult task here in Russia.

Here's the board that I'm looking at (also have an opportunity to buy it online with a good deals on spring sales). All 2017 models

1. Jones Flagship 161 - seems like a very stiif, so i'm afraid of it a little
2. Jones Explorer 162 - more flexible, good reviews, but so mellow camber and short radius - is it good for learning to carve? 
3. Jones Hovercraft 160 - never tried such a short tail boards. Can it be really versatile?

Heard a lot of rumors about poor quality of Jones snowboards but it seems like last few years models is much better?

4. Nidecker Donuts 160 - specs looking great but it's almost impossible to find any reviews on it.
5. Capita BSOD 162 - doubt about stiifness, many reviewrs notice a too much flex for a freeride board 
6. NS Swift 157 - would be this lenght enough for a powder? Also the most expencive one. And what about this c-r-с profile compare to camber-rocker? Isn't too lose for carving?

7. And finally Borealis. Arcane or Koi. They have a really temting 50% spring sale on the official website but this brand a completely dark horse for me.

So, would be very appreciate for any words of advice. Does any of this boards noticable better than my TurboDream and wich one is the best for my style of riding? Or should I look for something else?

Thanks!


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## Phedder (Sep 13, 2014)

For someone who's first language is Russian, your English is fantastic! 

It really depends just how much more aggressive of a ride you want than your Turbo Dream. That's a pretty good board in powder, especially a 162 at your weight. I think the safest bet would be the Jones Explorer, it's less of a step up stiffness and aggression wise compared to the Flagship and Hovercraft, but should still offer a noticeable improvement for carving and edgehold over your Turbo Dream. 

Two others to look at if you can find a deal on them as well would be a Burton Flight Attendant or a Yes PYL. Personally the Flight Attendant is the board that made me fall in love with carving, it's got great spring edge to edge from a healthy dose of camber, but the big fat shovel nose, set back, and taper make it float really well in powder too.


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

Tantin said:


> Interesting about carving a groomers and freeride in a pow day. No park, no jumps. And switch is not in priority. Don't want a quiver, looking for a one-for-everything board.


What's your pow terrain looking like? High alpine? Open? Trees? Steep or rather flat? Fresh snow all day or is your region crowded and the fresh snow gets rutted n moguled quickly? What's your style of riding there? Rather playful looking for hits n jumps or rather fast big turns? How often do you get pow vs groomer days? 

Same on on groomers. Crowded? Moguled? Or huge perfecttly maintained pistes all day? You aim to ride from first to last chair or call it a day early? Soft snow? Hardpack? How fast/aggressive is your style? 



Tantin said:


> Heard a lot of rumors about poor quality of Jones snowboards but it seems like last few years models is much better?


Hmmm... we had statistically as much quality issues with them as with other high-end models of other brands like Burton or Ride. Two of our 12 Jones had a delam issue after the first day out. They've a good customer's service and replaced the decks w/o discussion. The ones which were fine were of very durable quality. Sturdy base which gets hardly scratches, resistant topsheets.


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## Tantin (Apr 17, 2017)

Phedder said:


> For someone who's first language is Russian, your English is fantastic!
> 
> It really depends just how much more aggressive of a ride you want than your Turbo Dream. That's a pretty good board in powder, especially a 162 at your weight. I think the safest bet would be the Jones Explorer, it's less of a step up stiffness and aggression wise compared to the Flagship and Hovercraft, but should still offer a noticeable improvement for carving and edgehold over your Turbo Dream.
> 
> Two others to look at if you can find a deal on them as well would be a Burton Flight Attendant or a Yes PYL. Personally the Flight Attendant is the board that made me fall in love with carving, it's got great spring edge to edge from a healthy dose of camber, but the big fat shovel nose, set back, and taper make it float really well in powder too.


Thanks Phedder! Yep, PYL is also in my wish list. How stiff is it? Closer to Flagship or somwhere in between with explorer?

Another interesting model for me is Rossignol XV. But I read that it has stiffer nose than the tail and it's pretty unusual.


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

Tantin said:


> Another interesting model for me is Rossignol XV. But I read that it has stiffer nose than the tail and it's pretty unusual.


I'd stay away from the XV - or any other board with massive magnetraction. Those edges don't _glide_ through snow when carving but cut into it and break your turn. No fun if you're into carving. Already the mellow magnetraction of the Flagship one can feel, but there, it's mellow enough to be a well balanced trade-off (it gives this board good edge hold even tho it has rarher short effective edge).


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## Tantin (Apr 17, 2017)

neni said:


> What's your pow terrain looking like? High alpine? Open? Trees? Steep or rather flat? Fresh snow all day or is your region crowded and the fresh snow gets rutted n moguled quickly? What's your style of riding there? Rather playful looking for hits n jumps or rather fast big turns? How often do you get pow vs groomer days?
> 
> Same on on groomers. Crowded? Moguled? Or huge perfecttly maintained pistes all day? You aim to ride from first to last chair or call it a day early? Soft snow? Hardpack? How fast/aggressive is your style?


I don't have my "home spot". I ride different resorts here in Russia and Europe so it's really can be a very different conditions. That's why I'm looking something more versatile. 

About my style - I like to go pretty fast, like to turn and keep the board on the edge. But's it's not like bombing straight lines down the hill. Less interesting in tricks and jumps. Usually from first to last chair ) And in a pow day i'm totally off-piste focused.


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## Tantin (Apr 17, 2017)

neni said:


> I'd stay away from the XV - or any other board with massive magnetraction. Those edges don't _glide_ through snow when carving but cut into it and break your turn. No fun if you're into carving. Already the mellow magnetraction of the Flagship one can feel, but there, it's mellow enough to be a well balanced trade-off (it gives this board good edge hold even tho it has rarher short effective edge).


Interesting, thanks!

Am I right that since I'm lightweight and prefer an upper size of boards (like 160-162) for better floating - even medium/stiff boards would be stiff enough for me?

P.S. Looks like i found many answers in nearby Intermediate board - Never Summer PTT / Jones Mountain Twin thread )


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

Tantin said:


> Interesting, thanks!
> 
> Am I right that since I'm lightweight and prefer an upper size of boards (like 160-162) for better floating - even medium/stiff boards would be stiff enough for me?


That's so hard to say because a lot of personal preference mixes into it. In general, the more aggressive and fast, the stiffer. But at some point this interferes with all-day suitability. Since you want 1 board for all day, look for a freeride deck with good dampening most of all.


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## Tantin (Apr 17, 2017)

neni said:


> That's so hard to say because a lot of personal preference mixes into it. In general, the more aggressive and fast, the stiffer. But at some point this interferes with all-day suitability. Since you want 1 board for all day, look for a freeride deck with good dampening most of all.


Thanks, that a good input! 

So what do you reccomend between Capita BSOD and Jones Explorer? They are quite similiar by specs. But it's hard to compare because every brand has their own stifness scale, as i understand.


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

Tantin said:


> Thanks, that a good input!
> 
> So what do you reccomend between Capita BSOD and Jones Explorer? They are quite similiar by specs. But it's hard to compare because every brand has their own stifness scale, as i understand.


Sorry, can't help cos I have tried none of them. (you don't want Ride Highlife, Volkl Coal, Jones Flagship. All too stiff/lack of dampening for 1 board strategy), Look at the ones Phebber mentioned. He rides a lot all year round and should know what he's talking about. Also check out angrysnowboarder.com which is a good review site. I've met that guy, he does demos carefully, and most importantly, is brutally direct whith words, so I trust his reviews.


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## Tantin (Apr 17, 2017)

neni said:


> Sorry, can't help cos I have tried none of them. (you don't want Ride Highlife, Volkl Coal, Jones Flagship. All too stiff/lack of dampening for 1 board strategy), Look at the ones Phebber mentioned. He rides a lot all year round and should know what he's talking about. Also check out angrysnowboarder.com which is a good review site. I've met that guy, he does demos carefully, and most importantly, is brutally direct whith words, so I trust his reviews.


Anyway thanks for your answers Neni. The last question - is the short tail boards are something that i shouldn't look at? Except for riding switch what else a limitations of them?


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

Tantin said:


> Anyway thanks for your answers Neni. The last question - is the short tail boards are something that i shouldn't look at? Except for riding switch what else a limitations of them?


They sink more into pow with the rear and thus float higher up with the nose. I don't know... I don't like that concept of floar generation, it sounds like slowing one down, I prefer a longer board instead whish floats _on_ snow instead of _against_ it. But I don't mind to ride long decks cos my terrain allows for it and I like a long edge anyway for carving. But for ppl who like short boards, it makes sense. To each their own 

Plus I'd expect a short tail will not carve the same way. Can't say if it's just a matter of getting used to, or if it's clear problem.


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

Yes Pick your Line or B Flight Attendant are great choices. Really versatile for being "freeride" boards. Stable enough to bomb, go fast and ride pow, but not planks so that you can easily handle slower speeds and tighter scenarios. I would say the flex is about 6/10 on the FA and maybe 7/10 on the PYL. Another cool board is the Ride Alter Ego, similar to these two I guess.

Neither of them has massive taper or setback so they ride pretty balanced.


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## Alonzo (Dec 30, 2015)

The Borealis Drakkar looks pretty sweet, and that's a great deal.


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## timmytard (Mar 19, 2009)

A Dupraz 

There's a Russian snowboard instructor at my old mtn, he teaches in hard boots.
He's got tonnes of crazy boards.

I seen him one day in super deep powder, with hard boots on, riding a Dupraz.

I'd never heard of it before.
It looked so good & he was slaying powder awesome on it.

It took me 3 years to finally find a used one on Craigslist.
It was so awesome, I bought another one.

Les snowboards Dupraz


TT


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## Snow Hound (Jul 21, 2012)

F1EA said:


> Yes Pick your Line or B Flight Attendant are great choices. Really versatile for being "freeride" boards. Stable enough to bomb, go fast and ride pow, but not planks so that you can easily handle slower speeds and tighter scenarios. I would say the flex is about 6/10 on the FA and maybe 7/10 on the PYL. Another cool board is the Ride Alter Ego, similar to these two I guess.
> 
> Neither of them has massive taper or setback so they ride pretty balanced.


+1 on the PYL. 


Alonzo said:


> The Borealis Drakkar looks pretty sweet, and that's a great deal.


Oh sheet. Yet another board to add to the long list (Koi looks nice also). At least the last few added have been European (got a raging hard on for the Korua Stealth) and I might finally be able to stop the perving over Priors (at least reduce the regularity).


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## Tantin (Apr 17, 2017)

Amount of mentions Yes PYL make me think about buying one )


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## Tantin (Apr 17, 2017)

timmytard said:


> A Dupraz
> 
> There's a Russian snowboard instructor at my old mtn, he teaches in hard boots.
> He's got tonnes of crazy boards.
> ...


Dupraz and Prior are surprisingly popular in snowboard community in Russia. They are freeride and carving oriented mostly, and legendary durable. As well as NS )


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## Lad Stones (Sep 9, 2016)




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## Tantin (Apr 17, 2017)

if you have enough skill you can ride even a barn door ))


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## unsuspected (Oct 26, 2015)

+1 on the FA, really fun and versatile board.


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## QCMP (Aug 5, 2016)

Just ot add my two cents but if you are looking at the Yes PYL and the B Flight Attendant you might wanna take a look at a Jones Aviator since you originally looked at Jones boards. I'm riding one for two years now and it can bomb, carve and has a lot of tech in it. The carbon sheet in it makes it stiff but it has softer tips (nose and tail) than its middle section but not too stiff in the torsional section to engage into a turn. This year we had lots of snow in my area and I had lots of fun on that board.
Plus, this is a really well made board the quality is there.


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## Tantin (Apr 17, 2017)

QCMP said:


> Just ot add my two cents but if you are looking at the Yes PYL and the B Flight Attendant you might wanna take a look at a Jones Aviator since you originally looked at Jones boards. I'm riding one for two years now and it can bomb, carve and has a lot of tech in it. The carbon sheet in it makes it stiff but it has softer tips (nose and tail) than its middle section but not too stiff in the torsional section to engage into a turn. This year we had lots of snow in my area and I had lots of fun on that board.
> Plus, this is a really well made board the quality is there.


Thanks for input. I heard that the Aviator almost as stiff as the Flagship. And it's a full camber so should be not so fun in powder I suppose?


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## QCMP (Aug 5, 2016)

Tantin said:


> Thanks for input. I heard that the Aviator almost as stiff as the Flagship. And it's a full camber so should be not so fun in powder I suppose?


The Flagship is from what I've read on this forum a plank. Stiff and for advanced riders.

The Aviator has some stiffness but still softer flex in the tips for sure and has the better of two worlds when it comes to the camber, traditionnal in a way because it is prominent added to rocker in the tips and beveled edges that makes it ride more like a contemporary snowboard and not a trad camber of the 90s.

I don't understand when people say that Camber is no good in powder but I prefer camber in powder to a rocker board. But it goes into personal preferences and for that you have to ride and try as many boards and setups as you can to know what bests suits you.


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

Tantin said:


> Thanks for input. I heard that the Aviator almost as stiff as the Flagship. And it's a full camber so should be not so fun in powder I suppose?


The Aviator is rocker tips, camber in the middle section.


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## GDimac (Nov 19, 2015)

F1EA said:


> I would say the flex is about 6/10 on the FA and maybe 7/10 on the PYL.


Hmm ... from my experience with my FA & when i got to test the 2018 PYL at the end of our szn here, they feel about the same. If anything, feel like the FA is just a tad bit stiffer. But not much.

Either way both great freeride boards that are versatile, as already mentioned. Prob the 2 most mentioned/recommended boards in this forum also, and understandbly so. I personally would go with the FA. Love carving with it but also enjoy taking it into the park esp on jump lines. GL.


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## SnowDragon (Apr 23, 2012)

F1EA said:


> The Aviator is rocker tips, camber in the middle section.


3D rocker (or spoon tips) though.
Not as good in powder as regular rockered tips.


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

GDimac said:


> Hmm ... from my experience with my FA & when i got to test the 2018 PYL at the end of our szn here, they feel about the same. If anything, feel like the FA is just a tad bit stiffer. But not much.
> 
> Either way both great freeride boards that are versatile, as already mentioned. Prob the 2 most mentioned/recommended boards in this forum also, and understandbly so. I personally would go with the FA. Love carving with it but also enjoy taking it into the park esp on jump lines. GL.


Yeah they make the PYL a bit softer each yr. which is not bad. But the FA has remained the same. I've tried the older PYL from 15 or 2016 and the 2016 FA. I have a new FA but haven't ridden it yet; it's​ definitely softer, milder sidecut and with more camber than the Landlord.



GreyDragon said:


> 3D rocker (or spoon tips) though.
> Not as good in powder as regular rockered tips.


Yep. True normal rocker tips is better in pow. 3D Is a bit better on groomers.


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## Tantin (Apr 17, 2017)

I'm confused by the GoodRide review for the Aviator. They claim that it's feels a little washy because of this 3D. Pretty strange to me that they made a spoon nose at the agressive and hard charging Aviator and didn't at the more versatille Mountain Twin.

Why do you guys think about TheGoodRide reviews? Are they trustworthy?


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

Tantin said:


> I'm confused by the GoodRide review for the Aviator. They claim that it's feels a little washy because of this 3D. Pretty strange to me that they made a spoon nose at the agressive and hard charging Aviator and didn't at the more versatille Mountain Twin.
> 
> Why do you guys think about TheGoodRide reviews? Are they trustworthy?


No need to be confused. Any board with any rocker, 3D lifted contacts, lifted edges etc will feel more "washy" than a full camber board. That's the whole point.

Also.... a spoon nose makes it float better and behave more directional than the Mountain Twin. Much better for hard charging and riding pow. Makes perfect sense as well.


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## deagol (Mar 26, 2014)

a carving quiver killer with freeride and powder abilities? my choice, hands down, would be the Never Summer Chairman wide. 
I rode the Swift (finally) and would love that in the trees and pow, but Chairman better for me for carving, Swift is surfy (and fun as hell)...


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

Tantin said:


> Why do you guys think about TheGoodRide reviews? Are they trustworthy?


If you're lucky and they actually have ridden the particular deck you look into carefully, the review can be good. But they often mention shit like "there wasn't any pow, but _looking_ at the boards profile it's going to be great". Huh?!?
If you spend 3 runs on a deck, that's a first take, an impression. Not a _review_. A review takes time. And catually riding different conditions. My opinion.


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## SGboarder (Jun 24, 2012)

Tantin said:


> I'm confused by the GoodRide review for the Aviator. They claim that it's feels a little washy because of this 3D. Pretty strange to me that they made a spoon nose at the agressive and hard charging Aviator and didn't at the more versatille Mountain Twin.


2 points:
1. The Aviator is not THAT hard charging and aggressive.
2. Mountain Twin has a LOT more rocker in the nose/tail than the Aviator (so contact points are pretty lifted already and there would not be as much benefit/impact from the spoon (or beveling)).



Tantin said:


> Why do you guys think about TheGoodRide reviews? Are they trustworthy?


They do not deserve to be called reviews. Occasionally they have good summaries/overviews of board features but given their lack of ability and the minimal time they spent with the gear their opinions are totally unreliable and often clearly wrong.


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## SGboarder (Jun 24, 2012)

F1EA said:


> The Aviator is rocker tips, camber in the middle section.


Only starting this season. Until last year it was full camber (with beveled contact points).


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## SGboarder (Jun 24, 2012)

F1EA said:


> GreyDragon said:
> 
> 
> > 3D rocker (or spoon tips) though.
> ...


Uh!? Why do you think that?


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

SGboarder said:


> Uh!? Why do you think that?


Because camber to rocker tips lifts the contacts a bit more when weighted. 

Camber to 3d contacts the contacts stay at the same height when weighted.


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## SGboarder (Jun 24, 2012)

F1EA said:


> Because camber to rocker tips lifts the contacts a bit more when weighted.
> 
> Camber to 3d contacts the contacts stay at the same height when weighted.


That seems apples-to-oranges: Rocker and spoon/3D are not mutually exclusive. For instance, the Aviator has both rocker and 3D.
So it might be true for some board with spoon tech (various Burtons, in a way TBT boards), but not sure I agree with it as a general statement.

Pus the 'additional' lifting of the contact points (of the whole nose actually) is not necessarily beneficial in pow as it can lead to 'plowing' if there is too drastic of a rise/rocker.


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

SGboarder said:


> That seems apples-to-oranges: Rocker and spoon/3D are not mutually exclusive. For instance, the Aviator has both rocker and 3D.
> So it might be true for some board with spoon tech (various Burtons, in a way TBT boards), but not sure I agree with it as a general statement.
> 
> Pus the 'additional' lifting of the contact points (of the whole nose actually) is not necessarily beneficial in pow as it can lead to 'plowing' if there is too drastic of a rise/rocker.


Yeah I'm referring to only rocker vs only 3D contacts. If you have both then it's​ just exaggerating the effect.

And I was actually confused about the Aviator because Jones has changed it a bit, so I gotta check what's the newest one like. 

As for plowing...... I think a lot has been made of it. You do far more plowing with full rocker or CRC than just a rockered nose..... 

But still, mellow early rise is enough to float well and it still doesn't plow too much. Plows less than CRC for sure.


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## Tantin (Apr 17, 2017)

Thanks for your inputs guys! Many things looks more clear now.

One more question - what sidecut radius and shape you prefer to see in your quiver killer deck? I'm generally understand how it works in theory, just intersting about your personal expirience. And am i right that turning radius depends on stiffnes as well while doing the same vertical work?

For example Jones Explorer 162 has only 7.9m. Would it be something that can prevent me to grow up in my carving skill or nothing to worry about?

And... does sidecut radius has the meaning in powder? )


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

Tantin said:


> Thanks for your inputs guys! Many things looks more clear now.
> 
> One more question - what sidecut radius and shape you prefer to see in your quiver killer deck? I'm generally understand how it works in theory, just intersting about your personal expirience. And am i right that turning radius depends on stiffnes as well while doing the same vertical work?
> 
> ...


Don't worry about this. Just pick a board and ride it.


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

Tantin said:


> Thanks for your inputs guys! Many things looks more clear now.
> 
> One more question - what sidecut radius and shape you prefer to see in your quiver killer deck? I'm generally understand how it works in theory, just intersting about your personal expirience. And am i right that turning radius depends on stiffnes as well while doing the same vertical work?
> 
> ...


From what I understand it - I hope someone will correct me if I'm wrong, SG? - a bigger sidecut in a softer board is an advantage cos you'll easily pres it into a shorter radius. 

The wider the radius, the wider the inherent turns, i.e. w/o you working for shorter radiuses. The stiffer the board, the more work you have to put into to get those shorter radiuses. 

A softish board with short radius would not do nice long drawn out fast carves. It would likely be bent too much (from the pressure of your weight amplified by speed) and do surprising tight turns, which - I assune - you may avoid by putting a lot of weight on your front foot. The bigger radius I'd reckon enables to do thise big turns w/o having to adapt your weight distribution too much.

BTW: Some will say "Don't worry about this. Just pick a board and ride it"... but it _still_ would be interesting to learn abt the influence of sidecut/stiffness by the ones who know it. I'm just assuming but would love to know more.


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

neni said:


> From what I understand it - I hope someone will correct me if I'm wrong, SG? - a bigger sidecut in a softer board is an advantage cos you'll easily pres it into a shorter radius.
> 
> The wider the radius, the wider the inherent turns, i.e. w/o you working for shorter radiuses. The stiffer the board, the more work you have to put into to get those shorter radiuses.
> 
> ...








https://youtu.be/uE1YdDj_L0o

Part 2: https://youtu.be/hFjq741bkbI


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