# Epicmix



## earl_je (Oct 20, 2009)

Vail resorts came up with a rather innovative feature for their season passes... 

EPICMIX

_What is Epicmix:

EpicMix is new for the 2010/2011 season at Vail, Beaver Creek, Breckenridge, Keystone and Heavenly, and a revolutionary technological advancement for the ski industry. With EpicMix, all your activity on the slopes is automatically captured and uploaded to your EpicMix dashboard.

Now you can follow your days skied, track your vertical feet, see where you rode, earn EpicMix pins for your achievements, and collect points.

But that’s not all. You can also connect with your social networks like Facebook and Twitter and share your stats, pins and points.

All this is possible because of Radio Frequency scanners at the base of every lift, and RF technology built into every Vail Resorts season pass, and PEAKS lift ticket._


Pretty stoked about this new feature, I just hope it works as advertised!


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## Ezkimo (Apr 2, 2008)

I dont know if I am too stoked about this. I dont like the feeling of people knowing exactly where I am at and what I am doing. I think this is just another way for the evil company that vail resorts kind of is to track and follow your every move. Obviously I'm blowing it a little out of porportion but it definatly is a pro/con thing. I never duck ropes but I can see this gettin a lot of kids in trouble and their passes revoked. I want BA opinion on this.


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## Jeklund (Dec 14, 2009)

Its a neat idea reminds of xbox achievements and i could see how getting "Pins" could be fun. However as Ezkimo said i don't like the idea the resorts can track where you are and know if you duck ropes and what not. I looked on their site to see if it was optional but it didn't really say. It will be neat to see where this goes and if any other resorts pick up this or a similar system.


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## JRosco (Sep 27, 2010)

They are already tracking you everytime they scan your pass, the only difference now is that they made it so you can see how many runs you have done with some features to make it interesting. If you don't choose to share your info with people, you can change your privacy settings. 
This doesn't track you where ever you are on the mountain at any given momment, just everytime you get scanned at a lift. 
I dig it just so I know how many runs I have done, and how many days I have been up, everything else I couldn't care less about. Once the season starts Im sure I will have more to say about it.


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## Jeklund (Dec 14, 2009)

Are you sure because from the video on their website it sounds like they track where you are on the mountain. I recall them saying something like each pass has a RF technology thing and every lift station has a receiver or something. I just imagine it would be pretty inaccurate in calculating your total vertical. I could be mistaken and even then it doesn't even effect me.


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## JRosco (Sep 27, 2010)

Jeklund said:


> like each pass has a RF technology thing and every lift station has a receiver


 Exactly.

Everytime you get on a lift, your pass is scanned as always, thats how they calculate the vertical, and are able to tell you where you have been on the mountain.


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## JRosco (Sep 27, 2010)

To be honest, if they put receivers all over the mountain so they could track where you're at, at all times,I wouldn't really mind. That would make EpicMix a whole lot more Epic, then we would be able to see exactly what runs we did and map your day. I see it as being helpful in an emergency if someone got hurt/lost, make rescue easier. If you like to duck the ropes and go out of bounds, then I suppose that would be a con for you, but thats really the only con I can think of?


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## earl_je (Oct 20, 2009)

Good point about the tracking out of bounds shredding. I do duck ropes frequently but I highly doubt they'll track stuff like that. Even if they did, and it was a problem, I'm sure somehow they'll warn me before revoking my pass immediately. 
IDK, I guess we'll see. 

BA is familiar with how they run things over there so I wonder how they'll react to it?


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## Ezkimo (Apr 2, 2008)

I would prefer to keep it simple, like its always been. I don't care to ask a lifty how many runs I've had, my knees tell me that. The only thing I honestly care about is how many days im getting with my pass, which I evaluate with how much I'm paying it off. With work and school and shit, I am uber curious how my season is going, and just the number of days I've been up is enough. which ultimately mean nothing, because just going up to the snow and the mountain atmosphere for one day is enough to make my pass worth my while.

A.k.a.: I cant wait regardless of the new bullshit they put out, I just want to strap in and have an amazing time wit my buds.

/end rant.


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## BurtonAvenger (Aug 14, 2007)

If you don't opt in for it there's no problem in my mind. If shit starts getting insane pry your pass apart and pull the chip out of the middle, problem solved. Right now I don't foresee Vail Resorts using the RF like a Recco system to actually find/track you. Not saying that option won't come down the road we all know how "family friendly" resorts have started getting lately. But I'm not ready to subscribe to the conspiracy theorists beliefs that big brother is out to get us as it would be social media suicide on their part if they did. 

Personally I'm opting out of this program just because I don't want something to happen where people are like well you were on this chairlift when it went down blah blah blah.


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## AWNOW (Sep 12, 2009)

I am holding off my opinions until a few weeks into the season to see what it is like. I can see how it could make a mellow day a bit more fun. I anticipate the biggest pain in the ass is listening to people on the chair lift talk about how awesome they are because they have pins X,Y,Z.


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## S4Shredr (Oct 23, 2009)

Ezkimo said:


> I would prefer to keep it simple, like its always been. I don't care to ask a lifty how many runs I've had, my knees tell me that. The only thing I honestly care about is how many days im getting with my pass, which I evaluate with how much I'm paying it off. With work and school and shit, I am uber curious how my season is going, and just the number of days I've been up is enough. which ultimately mean nothing, because just going up to the snow and the mountain atmosphere for one day is enough to make my pass worth my while.
> 
> A.k.a.: I cant wait regardless of the new bullshit they put out, I just want to strap in and have an amazing time wit my buds.
> 
> /end rant.


I agree, what ever happend to the days that they didnt even scan and you had those stick on day passes? Man things have changed in the past 20 years. Whatever though, I guess to some people its cool, I dont think I'd ever log onto it to see where I rode on any given day though or strive to achieve any "Pins".


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## JRosco (Sep 27, 2010)

AWNOW said:


> I anticipate the biggest pain in the ass is listening to people on the chair lift talk about how awesome they are because they have pins X,Y,Z.


 :laugh: That can all be avoided by turning up the tunes! 





S4Shredr said:


> I dont think I'd ever log onto it to see where I rode on any given day though or strive to achieve any "Pins".


 Agreed, I saw the pins that can be earned and it seems to be geared more towards teens. :dunno:
Now if I could earn points for free beer, I would be all about it!


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## HoboMaster (May 16, 2010)

Mmm, sounds like a big social media advertising scheme to me, rather then a 1984 tracking system. If they can get people all pumped up about it, shit flies on the social networks, and soon enough there is some big ass facebook app with 100,000 users and some corporation who wants to buy it for mega-bucks.

The creater of Farmville and Mafia Wars, Zynga is worth like fucking 3 billion. All they had to do was make a shitty Harvest Moon duplicate that programmers from 1998 could have made, uploaded it to Facebook, and watched as casual-gamers ate the shit up.


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## daysailer1 (Nov 9, 2007)

There is a way to keep Vail from tracking you to that smoke shack or out of bounds. Ski Pass Defender Vail is using UHF RFID chips.


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## JRosco (Sep 27, 2010)

daysailer1 said:


> There is a way to keep Vail from tracking you to that smoke shack or out of bounds. Ski Pass Defender Vail is using UHF RFID chips.


 So the only way you can be tracked in real time is if you use the social media apps on your smart phone,put you can change your privacy settings. Otherwise the only way your location would be known,is when you get scanned at the lift.


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## daysailer1 (Nov 9, 2007)

JRosco said:


> So the only way you can be tracked in real time is if you use the social media apps on your smart phone,put you can change your privacy settings. Otherwise the only way your location would be known,is when you get scanned at the lift.


It's the only way your friends can be prevented from tracking you -opt out on the VR website. VR will still collect your data. There's talk of more mountain antenna's. The UHF chip has a longer range than the other chips.

With a new iPhone app, you do have the ability to scan others ski passes but not necessarily get their private data.


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## AWNOW (Sep 12, 2009)

daysailer1 said:


> There is a way to keep Vail from tracking you to that smoke shack or out of bounds.


VR knows where the shacks are, not really a secret by any means.


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## daysailer1 (Nov 9, 2007)

AWNOW said:


> VR knows where the shacks are, not really a secret by any means.


Very true.

But now if someone comes out of a shack and then injures themself or someone else ..... lawsuits nullified or prosecuted.


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## killclimbz (Aug 10, 2007)

daysailer1 said:


> Very true.
> 
> But now if someone comes out of a shack and then injures themself or someone else ..... lawsuits nullified or prosecuted.


Why would coming out of a shack go either way? I know for a fact that not everyone visiting a shack is participating in a safety meeting.


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## linvillegorge (Jul 6, 2009)

Is anyone else sick of how everything involving Vail Resorts is EPIC this and EPIC that? I mean c'mon. It's terribly played out.


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## daysailer1 (Nov 9, 2007)

killclimbz said:


> Why would coming out of a shack go either way? I know for a fact that not everyone visiting a shack is participating in a safety meeting.


Yeah, it could go either way but there's always gonna be an air of suspicion.

You could prove or disprove you were there. Not to say all safety meetings happen there either.

Say people were known to be drinking or smokin at a place at a certain time. You were there too for the same time period and area. Then someone gets hurt. A lawyer supenoeas Vail's database. What you gonna say?

Then there's the employee who was speeding and killed the dude a few years back at Vail. The pass could then be used to track your speed on the slope. Or you said you weren't speeding or weren't in a family zone and speeding and hit a kid.

I'm not defending or endorsing this tech or being paranoid. I don't even go to VR ski areas since I don't have their pass.

Instructors and kids in classes wear a GPS device at most large CO resorts these days. Believe me, they use them to track you everywhere on the hill. They'll call you on the hill and start asking questions if things look strange to them.


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## Milo303 (Apr 6, 2009)

I'm getting a cover for my pass.

My favorite Vail riding is out of bounds... There's no way to get to the lifts that I do in the order that I get to them without cutting ropes so my ass would be grass


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## earl_je (Oct 20, 2009)

I might get a cover also, put it on when I'm out of bound, take it off when I do want it to track me. Thanks for that link.


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## Random Hero (Sep 30, 2008)

Haven't read the thread, I just had to say this. You know the world is coming to an end when we are trying to emulate videogames in real life instead of the other way around.


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## BurtonAvenger (Aug 14, 2007)

Once again I'll stress they aren't using this like a Recco system where they can ping off of you 24/7 it's predominately around lifts and that's that. For now. Man lots of foil hat wearers around here.


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## J.Schaef (Sep 13, 2009)

Stevens pass started using RFID a while back.

I have a season pass there. 

I spent lots and lots of time in the slackcountry out there, never heard a peep about it.

The RFID stations are ONLY gates at the entrance to lifts.


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## BurtonAvenger (Aug 14, 2007)

Black88sir said:


> Stevens pass started using RFID a while back.
> 
> I have a season pass there.
> 
> ...


Yes for Stevens Passes system.


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## J.Schaef (Sep 13, 2009)

What I am getting at, is that I think all the RFID systems are pretty similar.

Just because Vail is selling the information off in a pretty little package, doesn't make the system different.

I can call stevens, or visit the guest relations office, and they can tell me how many times I rode up a particular lift. That is pretty much all they are selling here. 

I like conspiracy theorys as much as the next guy, but you guys are just reaching too far.


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## Milo303 (Apr 6, 2009)

My main concern is some of my out of bounds spots take me from X lift to X lift that isn't accessible by in bounds riding.... So I'm not sure just how far the signal can be picked up around lifts..... Even saying you went past X lift outside of it's radius to pick your pass up, the lift you end up at still may not be accessible even if you really did just go by outside of the lift signal range. So that wouldn't be a good excuse.

If that makes sense.....


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## Milo303 (Apr 6, 2009)

Stevens Pass isn't owned by Vail resorts so they may handle going out of bounds differently


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## J.Schaef (Sep 13, 2009)

Yeah, they might handle it differently. I see what you are saying, but in my experience, this system isn't to police your out of bounds usage. It is simply to open the gate and let you on the lift. When they say "track where you go on the mountain" it simply means that you can see which lift gates you opened. 

Besides that, the RFID scanners that are built into the gates only seem to have about a 3 foot range. If that.


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## Milo303 (Apr 6, 2009)

I wish that's all Vail resorts did... There's tons of horror stories about what Vail resorts employees have done with peoples passes for misc things.

But who knows man, I hope I'm reading to far into it, but I'm still getting a cover. I want nothing to do with this epic mix thing


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## J.Schaef (Sep 13, 2009)

The system isn't built like that. I am pretty sure that if you get a cover for your pass, you won't be able to access the lift gates.


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## Milo303 (Apr 6, 2009)

Theres only people with scanners at the bottom so if the RFID won't read thru it, I will take it off at that point

What are you saying the system isn't built like?


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## J.Schaef (Sep 13, 2009)

It isn't built to track your every movement. Even a UHF RFID chip only has a range of 45 feet or less. You think the mountain is really going to spend that much time/money installing UHF antennas just to moniter which users are going out of bounds?

Every 45 feet? I don't think so. 

The system here doesn't use people with RFID scanners, It is a gate system like on a subway. You ride up to closed gate, it scans your pass, and swings open. 

I think you are far too concerned about it. Get the pass, Ride out of bounds. You will be fine.


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## Milo303 (Apr 6, 2009)

I never said it would track your every movement... I said it will track what gates you enter and if you enter one gate, then enter another gate that's not in bounds accessible from your previous gate, they will know you went out of bounds.

I think you might've misunderstood what I was saying. It's difficult to explain it in text


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## Milo303 (Apr 6, 2009)

Black88sir said:


> The system here doesn't use people with RFID scanners, It is a gate system like on a subway. You ride up to closed gate, it scans your pass, and swings open.


Ya that's not how it is here as of right now


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## J.Schaef (Sep 13, 2009)

Milo303 said:


> I never said it would track your every movement... I said it will track what gates you enter and if you enter one gate, then enter another gate that's not in bounds accessible from your previous gate, they will know you went out of bounds.
> 
> I think you might've misunderstood what I was saying. It's difficult to explain it in text



I get it, I just have my doubts that they monitor the usage that closely. I mean, think of how many people have season passes. 

I could be wrong. What lifts are you talking about?


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## BurtonAvenger (Aug 14, 2007)

Vail resorts is run by satan and honestly in the future they will find a way to turn that RFID chip into a Recco Reflector so they could use that technology to find you. Right now they're toying with the idea of tracking people. But if you know Vail resorts this tracking isn't just for usage data they'll find a way to make it more family friendly.


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## earl_je (Oct 20, 2009)

BurtonAvenger said:


> Vail resorts is run by satan and honestly in the future they will find a way to turn that RFID chip into a Recco Reflector so they could use that technology to find you. Right now they're toying with the idea of tracking people. But if you know Vail resorts this tracking isn't just for usage data they'll find a way to make it more family friendly.


funny how they use the term 'family friendly' in a completely different manner... :cheeky4:


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## daysailer1 (Nov 9, 2007)

Not all that hard to put a scanner at a backcountry gate. Ya gotta go through the gate to be legal. I know there is at least one resort using RFID scanning at backcountry gates.

Vail has money and massive manpower. They don't do anything like mom & pop ski resorts. They want the entire contents of your wallet. They'll figure out how to get it eventually. That's good American capitalism at work.

Maybe I should just have a table and a battery powered drill at the Vail exit on I-70. Post a sign saying "I'll prevent Vail Resorts from tracking you." Then just drill a hole into the chip in their pass.:laugh:


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## JRosco (Sep 27, 2010)

daysailer1 said:


> Not all that hard to put a scanner at a backcountry gate. Ya gotta go through the gate to be legal. I know there is at least one resort using RFID scanning at backcountry gates.


What do you mean by backcountry gate??by gate you mean lift, right? If there is a gate/lift in the backcountry, its not really considered backcountry and still in-bounds of the resort. 




daysailer1 said:


> Maybe I should just have a table and a battery powered drill at the Vail exit on I-70. Post a sign saying "I'll prevent Vail Resorts from tracking you." Then just drill a hole into the chip in their pass.:laugh:


No need, Vail will do it for with a hole punch if you ask them, of do it yourself.


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## daysailer1 (Nov 9, 2007)

JRosco said:


> What do you mean by backcountry gate??by gate you mean lift, right? If there is a gate/lift in the backcountry, its not really considered backcountry and still in-bounds of the resort.
> 
> 
> No I do not mean lift or lift-served terrain. Backcountry does not mean lift. I mean a backcountry access gate. Some people call it side-country. The resort and the national forest service call it a backcountry access gate.
> ...


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## daysailer1 (Nov 9, 2007)

READ this thread. It explains it all.

Keeping morons out of the slackcountry- lets see your signs! - Teton Gravity Research Forums


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## JRosco (Sep 27, 2010)

daysailer1 said:


> Since you do not know what backcountry is - stay out of it. Backcountry is not patrolled at ski resorts. You go out the gate - yer on yer own. It is not in-bounds. Google is yer friend. You go out a access gate, you better have probe, shovel, and beacon and a friend. Both should know how to use them.


Dude, I was just trying to clerify what you meant by backcounty gate. I know what the backcountry is all about, I just have never done any backcountry terrain via a resort "gate" and wasn't sure what you meant. No need to be condescending. :thumbsdown:


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