# Remind The Solution vs Intuition liners



## chomps1211 (Mar 30, 2011)

Wasn't familiar with Intuition. Took a look at their web site. Seems to me those are ski boot specific liners. I didn't see SB boots mentioned anywhere. Might want to check on that.


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## BurtonAvenger (Aug 14, 2007)

The problem with Intuition that you will run into is that if your boot doesn't have a sewn in inner lace option it's gone. They also take up more volume than the Reminds. Great product but not ideal for a snowboard boot. Now Reminds the issue you might run into is the fit with your boot you need to try them on to see if they work. Some people have 0 problems other people not so lucky.


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## East§ide (Mar 14, 2011)

is there any simple way to know if they will fit in your boot? is it by brand, or by size that the fit doesnt work? i should probably just email them..


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## I need a name (Mar 5, 2009)

BurtonAvenger said:


> The problem with Intuition that you will run into is that if your boot doesn't have a sewn in inner lace option it's gone. They also take up more volume than the Reminds. Great product but not ideal for a snowboard boot. Now Reminds the issue you might run into is the fit with your boot you need to try them on to see if they work. Some people have 0 problems other people not so lucky.



I'm not following you on this one. It looks like the intuition dreamliners have a regular liner lace on them with the drawstring thing. I have room to spare, my boots are currently shimmed with foam. Needed to size up to get the width needed for my toe box.


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## chomps1211 (Mar 30, 2011)

BurtonAvenger said:


> ....Now Reminds the issue you might run into is the fit with your boot you need to try them on to see if they work. Some people have 0 problems other people not so lucky.


I purchased a pair of the Remind Solution liners a little more than a month ago. Only got to use them once for a really short am session before the back trouble that benched me for a month. 

I have been out with them 3 times now in the last week. I believe BA has a full review of them on his site. (...it was very positive, main reason I bought them.) I intend to post my impressions and opinions on them soon once I get a few more days in using them, now that my back isn't keeping me off the hill.

I will say this, they appear to be a very well made, quality liner. Better quality than the original liners. Now,... @ $130, easily the price of a brand new pair of boots (at least assuming EOS sales.) they are pricey. But my 2010/11 thirtytwo ST Boa's now feel and perform like brand new boots. And I've easily got well over 100-130+ days in them with the original liners.

If you really like and want to get extra season(s) out of the boots you have? These are definitely worth considering.


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## East§ide (Mar 14, 2011)

that seems to be the one drawback.. for instance, I paid somewhere in the neighborhood of $200 or so for my Rome Libertines.. i love them, they are the most comfortable boot I've worn, but they hurt also. I want to alleviate the pain, but it's hard to justify taking an already expensive product, throwing out basically everything but the shell of the product, and then spending $130 extra to make them right.. just seems crazy


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## chomps1211 (Mar 30, 2011)

East§ide said:


> that seems to be the one drawback.. for instance, I paid somewhere in the neighborhood of $200 or so for my Rome Libertines.. i love them, they are the most comfortable boot I've worn, but they hurt also. I want to alleviate the pain, but it's hard to justify taking an already expensive product, throwing out basically everything but the shell of the product, and then spending $130 extra to make them right.. just seems crazy


Sorry but that statement has me a little confused. No sarcasm intended, but "they are the most comfortable boots you've owned, *and* thay hurt???

How r they hurting you? What about their fit do you think is causing that? I understand the point you made about the cost on top of the cost of the boot. I think that's a valid point if we are talking new boots. That may not be the most practical solution in that situation. 

My point was for the price of a pair of "on sale boots,.". (Which never seem to be available in my size.). You can renew and extend the life of your old, much loved and ridden boots.


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## I need a name (Mar 5, 2009)

chomps1211 said:


> Sorry but that statement has me a little confused. No sarcasm intended, but "they are the most comfortable boots you've owned, *and* thay hurt???
> 
> How r they hurting you? What about their fit do you think is causing that? I understand the point you made about the cost on top of the cost of the boot. I think that's a valid point if we are talking new boots. That may not be the most practical solution in that situation.
> 
> My point was for the price of a pair of "on sale boots,.". (Which never seem to be available in my size.). You can renew and extend the life of your old, much loved and ridden boots.



My vans are the most comfortable boot I have ever worn, but still cause me pain. I'd rather shell out the money on a newish pair of boots for the liners to make them absolutely perfect.


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## East§ide (Mar 14, 2011)

chomps1211 said:


> Sorry but that statement has me a little confused. No sarcasm intended, but "they are the most comfortable boots you've owned, *and* thay hurt???
> 
> How r they hurting you? What about their fit do you think is causing that? I understand the point you made about the cost on top of the cost of the boot. I think that's a valid point if we are talking new boots. That may not be the most practical solution in that situation.
> 
> My point was for the price of a pair of "on sale boots,.". (Which never seem to be available in my size.). You can renew and extend the life of your old, much loved and ridden boots.


basically, these are the most comfortable boots out of all of the pairs that I have owned - BUT, that being said, I have never had a day of snowboarding where I wasn't in almost constant foot pain. The Libertines are worlds better than, say, the Vans boots i had before (fit wise, for me personally), but they are still far from perfect.

I have very wide, very flat feet. They get significantly wider as I put pressure on my feet.. what generally tends to happen is that my boots are too tight across the ball of my foot, leading me to try to keep it loose down there, which normally also makes the rest of my foot really loose in my boot. If I tighten them, I am guaranteed pain.. usually the first 2 runs are brutal, then it calms down to a dull ache,and then after lunch usually starts to hurt again. Sometimes it is just across the ball of my foot (the widest part), and sometimes it is also in my arch, especially when really cranking down on my toe edge (which i ride on more often than my heels.) I have tried a bunch of different insoles (never Remind, mostly from local shops and stuff) with the same result - they generally hurt MORE because people that are selling this shit dont understand that I dont want an insole to FIX my flat foot but something that will mold to the shape my foot ALREADY is and make it comfortable. I cant snowboard with some massive arched insole trying to fix my flat feet. 

TL;DR - my boots are comfier than any others ive had, but they still hurt 99% of the time.


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## I need a name (Mar 5, 2009)

East§ide said:


> basically, these are the most comfortable boots out of all of the pairs that I have owned - BUT, that being said, I have never had a day of snowboarding where I wasn't in almost constant foot pain. The Libertines are worlds better than, say, the Vans boots i had before (fit wise, for me personally), but they are still far from perfect.
> 
> I have very wide, very flat feet. They get significantly wider as I put pressure on my feet.. what generally tends to happen is that my boots are too tight across the ball of my foot, leading me to try to keep it loose down there, which normally also makes the rest of my foot really loose in my boot. If I tighten them, I am guaranteed pain.. usually the first 2 runs are brutal, then it calms down to a dull ache,and then after lunch usually starts to hurt again. Sometimes it is just across the ball of my foot (the widest part), and sometimes it is also in my arch, especially when really cranking down on my toe edge (which i ride on more often than my heels.) I have tried a bunch of different insoles (never Remind, mostly from local shops and stuff) with the same result - they generally hurt MORE because people that are selling this shit dont understand that I dont want an insole to FIX my flat foot but something that will mold to the shape my foot ALREADY is and make it comfortable. I cant snowboard with some massive arched insole trying to fix my flat feet.
> 
> TL;DR - my boots are comfier than any others ive had, but they still hurt 99% of the time.




You're in luck. I had the same problem for ages. 


Here's the fix:
Low profile custom orthotics with a metatarsal bar, arch support created off of a weighted foot (won't correct it, just give you some support when on your feet), and heat mold all of this with a big toe cap on. You'll be golden. My arch always killed when shops gave me off the shelf stuff. No boots seemed to be wide enough either since once your feet swell up, the metatarsal area will curl upwards. When pressure is applied, it will go back down and cause pain. The support bar, when custom fitted for your foot, will keep it from collapsing and allow your foot some more room width wise.

As for store bought insoles, they are just trying to solve something that they can't. Each foot is unique, an off the shelf product will not work.


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## East§ide (Mar 14, 2011)

I need a name said:


> You're in luck. I had the same problem for ages.
> 
> 
> Here's the fix:
> ...


that sounds great, but where in the world do i go to have someone do this for me? Im willing to spend the $$, but there aren't any bootfitters within about 2 1/2 hours of here.. and the one time I did waste my time seeing a true boot fitter, they didn't help anyway. 
Should i be going to an orthopedist for these?


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## BurtonAvenger (Aug 14, 2007)

I need a name said:


> I'm not following you on this one. It looks like the intuition dreamliners have a regular liner lace on them with the drawstring thing. I have room to spare, my boots are currently shimmed with foam. Needed to size up to get the width needed for my toe box.


So you bought a boot that's too big because you have a wide foot?



East§ide said:


> that seems to be the one drawback.. for instance, I paid somewhere in the neighborhood of $200 or so for my Rome Libertines.. i love them, they are the most comfortable boot I've worn, but they hurt also. I want to alleviate the pain, but it's hard to justify taking an already expensive product, throwing out basically everything but the shell of the product, and then spending $130 extra to make them right.. just seems crazy


Ugh! Just ugh. 

Here's the deal you guys might have a good fitting boot but you don't have a great fitting boot. The problem is that you aren't addressing the proper problems. Arch support is one of them as with any boot off the shelf the insole is pure crap, just throw it away. Now comes the trial and error and money expenditure no one wants, the custom boot fit. Each of you sounds like you have issues that you need a one on one fit with a solid boot fitter. 

One of you has a wider forefoot that has issues and so it reads is up sizing. Which is not the answer. A heat mold will do so much, a low profile arch support will do so much, but what you need is a good fitter that's not afraid to cut your liner open and remove foam. Yeah it sucks and isn't always the answer but it needs to be. 

The other is suffering through a lack of arch support that no liner will fix, it's a footbed issue. You need your arch cradled so that it doesn't compress. The boot should be snug to your preference, not loose like a whales vagina. The looseness is actually hindering the fit of the boot and causing more problems. 

I guess this summer I'll have to make the "how do I fix my boots myself" videos. I've been dreading doing this but as snowboarding has gotten older so too have our feet and the problems that brings.


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## I need a name (Mar 5, 2009)

BurtonAvenger said:


> So you bought a boot that's too big because you have a wide foot?




Yes. I've fought for years on proper fitting boots. Always followed the guidelines, always had a problem. Even with custom orthodontics. Decided instead of getting such a tight fit, I would go a bit on the loose side. Threw some c pads and foam around the ankle, shin bang eliminator, and a bit of foam underneath my orthotic. Perfect fit, it's just causing me some pressure points right on the top of my foot. View my other thread to see my "custom" fitting progression. 

I re heatmolded the liners tonight. Kept everything as is, but threw some foam over the hot spots. I put some foam over the top of my foot in hopes to redistribute the pressure points, but it didn't work. Removed this and tried to mold it do get more room over those spots. 




As for the other poster, get the orthotics from doctors footlabs. They mail the foam box out to you to make a mold. Did a KILLER job with mine.


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## BurtonAvenger (Aug 14, 2007)

You're going the wrong route to fix the problem. Unless you have something like a EEEE width foot there are boots that fit you. All you did was get something too big then add foam to it which isn't fixing the problem just creating others. What you need to do now to fix your forefoot/instep area is create a shim around the hot spot that goes over the instep/toe box area. What this does is creates a hallow spot where the hot spot is by distributing the pressure outward over the effected area. Think of it like putting a donut around the area. Once you have the donut then comes the grinding and shaving part to minimize it and get it perfect. 

What you really need is a real boot that fits everything on your foot. 

Also Footlabs might work for you but in my opinion it's garbage and not an effective remedy to 99% of what people need for orthodics.


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## I need a name (Mar 5, 2009)

BurtonAvenger said:


> You're going the wrong route to fix the problem. Unless you have something like a EEEE width foot there are boots that fit you. All you did was get something too big then add foam to it which isn't fixing the problem just creating others. What you need to do now to fix your forefoot/instep area is create a shim around the hot spot that goes over the instep/toe box area. What this does is creates a hallow spot where the hot spot is by distributing the pressure outward over the effected area. Think of it like putting a donut around the area. Once you have the donut then comes the grinding and shaving part to minimize it and get it perfect.
> 
> What you really need is a real boot that fits everything on your foot.
> 
> Also Footlabs might work for you but in my opinion it's garbage and not an effective remedy to 99% of what people need for orthodics.


To date, the only thing that fit was a wide salomon dialogue, but that boot fell apart so fast that I just couldn't waste money on another. I've had so many boots with a snug fit, my toe box just got so cramped that it would never work for me. The donut cutout is the next method of attack, just tried re heat molding first though to "punch" out the liner a bit in those spots. The nice thing about this problem is that at the end of the day I can easily see the hotspot. If it persists, I'll just color the area in with a sharpie on my foot to get the foam cutouts in the perfect spot. I also need to determine if its the shell creating the point or inside the actual liner itself.

As for the footlabs, they worked for me because I knew exactly what I needed. Foam thickness, metatarsal bar, etc.


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## East§ide (Mar 14, 2011)

Thanks for the info from both of you .

BA, I have seen one boot fitter who really didn't help me very much. I'm starting to fell as if it's just going to be an endless issue for me . I'm saving for a wedding right now so randomly dropping money to try out different products just isn't an option for me . I don't know anything about the physiology of the foot and so I don't know if I'm really following everything you're saying about displacing or distributing the pressure .
When I first got the Libertines, they were quite a bit tighter than they are now - obviously they've packed out some, which is expected, and yet with all the packing out and heat molding they've done (probably about 25 days in them ) they don't feel like they've molded to my foot .. More like they've just opened up wider in every aspect .


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## BurtonAvenger (Aug 14, 2007)

What's your foot size also "punching" out a liner will only do so much and after 2 molds you've pretty much done all you can. Then it becomes a shell issue. You can punch out the shell of a boot but as I've only done it once and seen it not do what is needed I strongly don't recommend this. What you more than likely need to do is cut the liner and remove the foam. Once again not exactly something I would recommend for the average DIYer out there. Also since you have foam under your insole I would pull that out and put it on a belt sander to thin it out. 

That's packing out. Your boot will never fit the exact same way it does when you try it on in the shop. What's going on with your foot is the stock insole isn't supporting it so when you put weight on it that crappy foam insert that is supposed to support your foot is just giving out and your foot is going in every direction. You more than likely just need a good supportive snowboard insole. After that it's pretty much minimal fixes to tweak it. 

I will say this I was a boot fitter for 10 years. No 2 feet are the same and you can work magic if you have a good competent boot fitter. Problem is for 350 bucks any idiot can get a "degree" that says Masterfit on it, doesn't mean they're any good. Hands on ability is what really matters as well as being able to break down a step by step process of what they're working on. 

There also comes a point where some people can't be helped because they're trying to make muscles that are damaged work beyond what they can and the boot fit doesn't help. Sometimes you have to retrain those muscles in your feet. I had to do it one year and it's not exactly the most pleasant thing.


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## I need a name (Mar 5, 2009)

^ I'll run the belt sander. That's a great idea that I didn't think about. Thin it out underneath the problem spot a bit.

As for cutting the liner, I'll go this route after trying the donut cutouts. To do this I would just pinpoint the hotspot and cut the foam out of this small region to free up the space? Do I cover it with any thin orthotic foam and tape or just sew around the hole to keep anything from fraying?

After this, I'll jump over to the remind liner... Or should I just skip right ahead to this?


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## East§ide (Mar 14, 2011)

BA, my boots are a 10.5 I believe . I really appreciate all of the info . Unfortunately that was my experience with a boot fitter .. Regurgitated information and a decent fit, but not perfect . If you were around I wouldn't have these issues haha .

So bottom line, what do you recommend , will the Solution liner make a difference ? Should I see an orthopedist about insoles ? Like I said I don't have a boot fitter who can or will modify my liners for me now .


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## AgingPunk (Feb 18, 2014)

BurtonAvenger said:


> You're going the wrong route to fix the problem. Unless you have something like a EEEE width foot there are boots that fit you..


I'm that guy BA speaks of. 10 4E with a high arch, metatarsal issues and narrow heel: tons of fun. Miserable pain every time I rode thought it would be like that for life.
1st I found Salomon Synapse Wide boots, mine are holding up fine 25 days out. Then I found a pedorthist who specialized in athletics, I'm in NYC so snow specific was difficult.
Short answer is I dropped $500 on his services for custom foot beds, and liner tweaks and adjustments and I don't have any foot pain, done.
I get that it's a lot of $$$ and a few years ago I wouldn't have been able to swing it, but it completely changed riding for me.
I still battle occasional numbness and heel lift, but that's more to lazy riding and short term memory loss remembering what lacing system works best.
If you have creepy, mutant, Fred Flinstone feet like me it's gonna take time and money to get right, but then it will change your life.


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## East§ide (Mar 14, 2011)

I'm in NJ.. Who was the doctor that you saw ? I'm not opposed to going I to the city to see someone if it is worth it and they know what they're doing .


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## AgingPunk (Feb 18, 2014)

Jeff Rich, if I'm remembering correctly him and another guy started Master Fit that was mentioned above, kinda cheesy website, but who cares if the work is good, right? He can recommend boots for width and work with what you have. I actually got some cash back from my insurance on the orthotics so that helped as well. Good luck.
Rob

Home | U.S. Orthotic Center, Jeffrey Rich, Pedorthist


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## I need a name (Mar 5, 2009)

Tried the boots on. Can't tell anything yet, but the heat mold definitely tightened up the heel section and of course I have less overall play. I removed any foam above the top of my foot and as mentioned before molded it with foam stuck to the hot spots to punch out the liner in those areas. I'll give it a go in a few days to see how it works out. If not, I'll just pick up a remind liner.


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## BurtonAvenger (Aug 14, 2007)

I need a name said:


> ^ I'll run the belt sander. That's a great idea that I didn't think about. Thin it out underneath the problem spot a bit.
> 
> As for cutting the liner, I'll go this route after trying the donut cutouts. To do this I would just pinpoint the hotspot and cut the foam out of this small region to free up the space? Do I cover it with any thin orthotic foam and tape or just sew around the hole to keep anything from fraying?
> 
> After this, I'll jump over to the remind liner... Or should I just skip right ahead to this?


What you have going on is an over all volume issue. So you sand down underneath it drops the foot down, now that's going to move the insole around in the boot and might bring other issues like a lack of heel support. If that's the case cut a J bar as needed or a piece of foam under existing J bars to tighten it up. 

Now if you're going to go the foam removal route there's a few things to understand. Once you cut that liner and remove foam there's no going back. What I suggest is find the hot spot and cut an X into the liner. This will cause the foam to push out. Try the boot on and see if that did enough. If it didn't then comes the foam removal and that's not fun. You want to blast the open area with a heat gun to soften the foam then with needle nose pliers pluck out the effected area and slowly remove it. Stopping every soft often to try on the boot and see if it feels better. Better to do it in moderation than go all in and find out you removed too much. A strip of duct tape over the open area works wonders. 

Actually you would be surprised how much you can fix in a ski or snowboard boot with just duct tape and a little creative problem solving. 

If you do go the Remind Liner route they actually have less volume in the heel and forefoot than an Intuition. The Intutions are designed to be used in a ski boot over a snowboard boot where the Reminds are snowboard specific. With you having a bigger boot than you should I honestly think you'll run into volume issues with it. 



East§ide said:


> BA, my boots are a 10.5 I believe . I really appreciate all of the info . Unfortunately that was my experience with a boot fitter .. Regurgitated information and a decent fit, but not perfect . If you were around I wouldn't have these issues haha .
> 
> So bottom line, what do you recommend , will the Solution liner make a difference ? Should I see an orthopedist about insoles ? Like I said I don't have a boot fitter who can or will modify my liners for me now .


Your issue isn't the liner it's the footbed. Before you go all crazy and spend hundreds on a custom footbed try a snowboard specific over the counter footbed first. The remind Cush and Medics are actually some of the best I've ever used in my life. After 10 years on custom orthodics I've gone to Remind and my knees, back, and riding have been better. See how they fit to your foot you obviously want the one with less arch which I might be wrong but I think that's the Medic, can't remember off the top of my head. Try that and see how it matches up with your boot/foot shape. Now initially you might get some discomfort in the arch of the foot. That's because it's now cradling and helping with the muscles that have been injured from an improper supportive footbed. Typically takes 3 to 5 uses of riding to get them to help your feet. In some instances though a Hartzler Notch needs to be cut into the arch of the footbed. All you do is take a razor knife and cut a line in the middle of the footbed from the start of it back towards the heel. This gives it a little more room by making it compress. It's a real simple solution to a lot of peoples footbed issues.


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## East§ide (Mar 14, 2011)

thanks BA, i really really appreciate your advice. i had actually emailed Remind a few months ago about this issue and they had recommended the Kush footbed.. they even offered to give me a free refund if they didn't work. I didn't order them because I honestly had figured that OTC footbeds just wouldnt cut it for me and i didn't want them to waste a product if it didn't. I think I'll go ahead and order them now and see how they work out.Again, i cant thank you enough for the info.


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## snowklinger (Aug 30, 2011)

BA, pretty rad of you to follow this thread this way, hundreds of people should benefit from what you have done for 2 folks here.

Just an RE: to the Reminds above: out of their 2 more expensive models, yea, Medic is the one with a less severe arch, also has the most cushioning of any model, have a pair in my boots and a pair that migrates between all my street shoes. Happy feets.

this thread should probably be stickied.


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## East§ide (Mar 14, 2011)

snowklinger said:


> BA, pretty rad of you to follow this thread this way, hundreds of people should benefit from what you have done for 2 folks here.
> 
> Just an RE: to the Reminds above: out of their 2 more expensive models, yea, Medic is the one with a less severe arch, also has the most cushioning of any model, have a pair in my boots and a pair that migrates between all my street shoes. Happy feets.
> 
> this thread should probably be stickied.


yea he really has been excellent..lots of help. 

this is the email i got from remind.. he recommended the Cush when I asked him, but now im totally confused on which one to try



> I hear ya... I've been snowboarding my whole life. I would say since you have a flatter foot the Cush would be your best option but you will need to break it in since it does have a bit of an arch. Give it a try if you want and after a couple weeks if you don't like them I will refund you.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> ...


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## snowklinger (Aug 30, 2011)

I have only tried one model, maybe the Cushes would be better for me too. My feet are so happy in the Medics...

I wouldn't argue with the guy from Remind


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## East§ide (Mar 14, 2011)

I guess theres nothing to lose, right? Ill order them and let you guys know the results!


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## SnowDragon (Apr 23, 2012)

snowklinger said:


> I have only tried one model, maybe the Cushes would be better for me too. *My feet are so happy in the Medics...*


+1.

Never had any real problems with boots, but always felt that the footbeds could be better.
Got some skier brand a couple of years ago thinking they would make a big difference over stock footbeds, but didn't really notice a difference.
Then I remembered BA's website and article about changing your footbeds and the advertising there for Reminds.

Got a pair of Medics at the start of this season and wish I'd bought them years ago. NOTICEABLE DIFFERENCE!!:thumbsup::eusa_clap:


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## BurtonAvenger (Aug 14, 2007)

Like I said I could be wrong on what I recommended. Plus I had been out in the sun all day riding and wrote that response in about 5 minutes before I ran out the door so I didn't check anything. John is the man and knows what's good.


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## East§ide (Mar 14, 2011)

its all good BA, you were beyond helpful and i really appreciate it


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## I need a name (Mar 5, 2009)

Got the remind solution +medic insoles. Holy stiffness/support. Have to break them in a bit.

Heel doesn't seem like it would hold, but I'm LOCKED in. Seems like the instep pain is gone, but I'm getting some other pain under the outer edge of the balls of my feet. This might go away as the insoles break in a bit.


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

Great thread! 

I'm in a similar boat as Eastside, accepted footpain as normal part of snowboarding/hiking. Part of the problem (numbness) was solved in an other tread, what remains is the - by far more severe - nerve pain. This thread raises hope that also this can be solved.

If riding with a lot of pressure on the ball of the foot - also when running or hiking uphill - suddenly in the middle of the ball nerves begin to buzz, with every step. Hiking uphill long distances is worst. Was told already as kid that this comes from having splayfeet. 



BurtonAvenger said:


> I will say this I was a boot fitter for 10 years. No 2 feet are the same and you can work magic if you have a good competent boot fitter.


Had 3 custome soles made by 2 different shops, also the sole done by an orthopedic didn’t help. They all had a little bump in the middle if the ball, of which the orthopedist claimed it should support the ball. But they all made the problem worse. 

Got ThermoSole 3D actually just to warm the feet but they also turned out to delay the buzzes. If hiking longer than 30min however, it starts. They have a supportive footbed but the part at the ball is completely flat. 

I feel comfortable in new hiking boots but as soon as their soles mold to my feet and the bump at the ball middle develops, the buzzes begin. In sandals with rigid hower, I can walk forever. I thus had the suspicion that the custom/orthopedic soles which are molded to the feet are going the wrong direction, that a sole that can't mold at all at the ball and is just flat would work best and thus I'm reluctant to order a product which molds to the foot...

Any thoughts on this problem?


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## BurtonAvenger (Aug 14, 2007)

There giving you too much metatarsal arch support. I hate that bump and doing them in footbeds as there are few people that really need it. Most are women that have a high arch and wear heels all the time. 

You could have planar fasciitis


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## I need a name (Mar 5, 2009)

BurtonAvenger said:


> There giving you too much metatarsal arch support. I hate that bump and doing them in footbeds as there are few people that really need it. Most are women that have a high arch and wear heels all the time.
> 
> You could have planar fasciitis


The support bar is hit or miss. Mine took a few tries to get right. It needs to be positioned perfectly, which is hard to do in a boot. It also needs to be the right hardness. Most feel like rocks under foot. Mine are softer, providing just a little support for me without being excessive.

How long does it take for the medics to break in? I normally heat mold everything, but John suggested otherwise for the solution liner.


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## I need a name (Mar 5, 2009)

Problem is not gone, the hotspot pressure point continues. 


Here's a picture of the foot after a few hours of riding.


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## I need a name (Mar 5, 2009)

Just figured this out. It's not the rivets or anything that are causing me the pressure, it's the actual tongue of the boot itself. The point where it changes from toe to shin cuts deeply into the liners.

This seems like my next plan of attack. 

Insert my low profile orthotics into the solution liners, add extra j bars and ankle foam to tighten up the heel. No heel lift problems now, but if I drop my heel lower, I'll probably begin to experience some. 

From here. I will add thicker orthotic foam to the inside of the shell from the toe section of the tongue back. I'll add more to the shin area too, creating a space at the crease. Hopefully this can shim it out far enough to keep the direct crease from digging in.


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## BurtonAvenger (Aug 14, 2007)

I'd say about 10 days for the medic. Careful with putting foam in the liner as it usually just gets pushed around and craps out. What it looks like you need is a Bridge put in on the outside. Make two strips of foam that are even length that you can put on the liner on the outside of the crease. Should cause a gap in pressure distribution and won't wear out as quick.


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## I need a name (Mar 5, 2009)

I'm a little confused as to where to place the bridge of foam. 

Am I understanding this correctly? Two pieces of relatively thick/wide form next to the problem spot where the green lines are pictured? It the tongue of the shell that is pressing down, I need to shim that up and out of the way a bit. If I keep the shell really loose, I don't get quite as much pain. I have a nasty habit of lacing up relatively tight for control reasons, but with these liners I have way more support and tighter fit so I shouldn't need to do it...


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## BurtonAvenger (Aug 14, 2007)

Honestly what I would do is put a piece of foam under the red chord at the bottom so that it puts pressure on that instead of cinching down the liner over the instep. It's all instep related pain that you're getting by raising up the chord which is what seems to be the catalyst to putting it down on the foot you should bypass the pressure you're getting and the need to do a bridge shim.


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## chomps1211 (Mar 30, 2011)

I have been having similar issues with the top of my instep using my new solution liners. I was considering undoing and re-lacing them, bypassing the bottom lace loops altogether. It appears that that would still let me sinch them up just above my ankle. My hope is that it wouldn't allow for any significant heel lift while helping resolve the pressure. 

Any thoughts on the potential efficacy of that particular attempt to fix the issue? I can always redo the lacing if it doesn't help or worse lets my heel slip. 
I do like the liners aside from this but right now, I have to re-adjust my boots several times a day to help eliminate the instep pressure and pain.


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## I need a name (Mar 5, 2009)

I'll try the foam under the red section. It's the tongue of the shell getting pulled down into the liner by the boa dial.

The best option for me at this point is to throw as much foam on the outside of the liner as physically possible to get a strangulation type grip around the ankle while maintaining a wide toe box. This way, I don't have to tighten the shell at all, just enough to keep my liner in place.


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## I need a name (Mar 5, 2009)

Pain persists. Trying a different thickness foam.


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## jtg (Dec 11, 2012)

I need a name said:


> As for the other poster, get the orthotics from doctors footlabs. They mail the foam box out to you to make a mold. Did a KILLER job with mine.


I have flat feet (though not wide) and metatarsal pain. I'm considering something like this, though I've already had 2 sets of orthotics made and they aren't helping. Is this doctorsfootlabs.com? If so, which product? Did you do the $200 custom option and talk to the doctor there?


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## tonicusa (Feb 27, 2008)

Just take your Reminds out. The top of your foot hurts because there isn't enough volume in the boot. My reminds are a lot chunkier than the inserts that come stock with my Kaiju. After a week or two of hard riding the top of my back foot can get sore. I just take the Reminds out for a few days and ride the stock footbeds.


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## jtg (Dec 11, 2012)

Anyone tried aftermarket intuition liners? The expensive firm ones that go in the oven and don't mold from pressure on your feet. Not the crap ones that come with some high end boots and say intuition on them but aren't really at all.

I'm considering these:

https://intuitionliners.com/the-liners/powerwrap/

I would be putting them in K2 Thraxis (triple BOA) if that matters.

I have a dealer nearby that can sell/fit me, but he obviously has an interest in selling them, so if anyone has negative (or positive) experiences, that would be good to know. I already have custom footbeds but I don't know if they're helping or hurting. They definitely didn't solve my problems.


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## chomps1211 (Mar 30, 2011)

You mean negative besides that they're for ski boots? No laces?


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

chomps1211 said:


> You mean negative besides that they're for ski boots? No laces?


Not a problem for some snowboard boots. My TM2s have the inner laces attached to the shell... no laces on the liner. Really effective, i must say.

Maybe the Thraxis are like that too? :dunno:


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## jtg (Dec 11, 2012)

Their site says they are also for snowboard boots and several of their images show snowboarders. Also, my stock liners have no laces, just a powerstrap. The boots do have BOA conda though.


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## Irahi (May 19, 2011)

jtg said:


> Anyone tried aftermarket intuition liners? The expensive firm ones that go in the oven and don't mold from pressure on your feet. Not the crap ones that come with some high end boots and say intuition on them but aren't really at all.
> 
> I'm considering these:
> 
> ...


I've tried having a shop put those exact liners in a snowboard boot. Unfortunately the molding process doesn't work for crap in a softshell boot. The shell is less rigid than your feet are, so rather than the shell putting pressure on the liner and therefore molding it to your feet, your feet are putting greater pressure on the liner and it molds it to the shell.

If you had a really tight shell fit you could probably make it work, but most snowboard boot shell fits are really loose compared to what you'd see in a ski boot.


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## I need a name (Mar 5, 2009)

Update. Problem solved. Threw foam on top of my foot and kept the outer shell completely loose. LOVE these liners. Really stiffen up the boot and improve control. 

Not completely perfect as my toes go numb due to lack of circulation at lunch time, but I can easily pull the boots off for a minute and im back to 100%.


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