# Binding problem after every few runs...



## snowjeeper (Nov 11, 2008)

crap i had a reply typed up and hit back.

is there loctite on there? Should be blue on the threads. If not you can get some loctite or put nailpolish on there.


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## Guest (Dec 21, 2008)

What is locktite, and you may have striped the threads in your board.


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## Vlaze (Nov 12, 2008)

NYCboarder said:


> I got the Rome targa's and today after every few runs the screws connecting to the base (board) kept coming lose and i would be able to shift the binding right and left while strapped in... did anyone else have this issue with these bindings or any other? and if so is there a fix?


Make sure blue loctite is on those screws. Did you install them yourself or at a local shop? If a local shop did it and put no loctite on them, that's a newb mistake, and a deadly one IMO. You're lucky it didn't come off on ya when going down hill. 

If you installed them yourself, you need to use blue loctite. All shops use it to resist the vibration from boarding and allowing the screws to get loose. Get some from a hardware store and apply to the screws. It will keep them in place during vibration and allow them to be removed. IF you get the red loctite, don't plan on being able to loosen them without resorting to a blow torch or something really hot to heat up the screw to remove the bond, so in other words, do NOT get red. 

Make sure that the loctite you're getting is for metal on metal, not metal on wood or vice versa. Colors for loctite can apply to various situations and strength, read the back info on them when you chose to make sure you select wisely.


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## Vlaze (Nov 12, 2008)

snowjeeper said:


> crap i had a reply typed up and hit back.
> 
> is there loctite on there? Should be blue on the threads. If not you can get some loctite or put nailpolish on there.


You're joking, right? Nail polish won't do shit compared to loctite. Get the blue loctite


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## Vlaze (Nov 12, 2008)

pops said:


> What is locktite, and you may have striped the threads in your board.


Loctite, is a bonding glue that works for many different applications. It's a main engineering glue used universally.


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## Guest (Dec 21, 2008)

If you take your bindings out to adjust them, will that blue loctite run or wear out?


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## Vlaze (Nov 12, 2008)

pops said:


> If you take your bindings out to adjust them, will that blue loctite run or wear out?


Not at first, overtime it can yes. I mean the glue dries up and creates the bond between the screw and the insert, and when you take it out yes, it's not as strong when you put it back in since some of it wears and falls off. However it still has some of the bits of glue on it, and when you screw it back in, squeezes between the threads giving some bonding. Most bindings if you buy from a store and plan to install yourself have the loctite dried on the screws for you to place in it, but that's fresh loctite, not previous installed loctite. 

IMO, if you're going to adjust your bindings that often (I maybe switch my angles twice, maybe thrice a year if I feel like it) I would suggest putting new loctite on it each time, or at least every second time you adjust it. If you do it THAT often, like on the mountain (which would be pretty insane to do it that often multiple times a day IMO) you better keep some on you. 

Actually I take that back, Loctite is supposed to be given 12-24 hours depending on temperature to bond properly. Do not adjust your angles on the mountain unless you don't mind losing some bonding. It may not be all lost, but it likely will only be half or less of what it was before.


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## Guest (Dec 21, 2008)

Thanks man, but I only adjusted them once and that was at my house.

So you think the loctite will hold pretty good only after one adjustment?


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## Vlaze (Nov 12, 2008)

pops said:


> Thanks man, but I only adjusted them once and that was at my house.
> 
> So you think the loctite will hold pretty good only after one adjustment?


Hard to say, personally, being a perfectionist and careful on what I work with, I wouldn't take the risk. I can't say it will hold pretty good and than have it bail on ya, it depends on a lot of conditions, mainly how much is left on it after you remove it. If you don't take the screws all the way out, then you probably should be ok for a little while. I'm sure some people here will say "bah, I tighten the shit out of them and its never came loose". That may be true but again, depends on many conditions.

Bottom line, loctite is cheap at the local hardware store, and takes minutes to install, and a rest assured mind that your shit is not coming loose on you.


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## Guest (Dec 21, 2008)

Thanks man I might have to get some.

When i took the screws out today, there was alot of loctite on them, but it was dry.


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## Vlaze (Nov 12, 2008)

pops said:


> Thanks man I might have to get some.
> 
> When i took the screws out today, there was alot of loctite on them, but it was dry.


Like I said, when you buy it from a store, the screws have loctite already on them from the binding manufacturer (most do anyhow), and it is obviously by then, dry. It still does the job, just when you take it out after it's already installed, the factor is there is less available to do the job. It doesn't take much loctite to do a good bonding job, persay a nice dab on 1/4 of the length of the screw. However, when they let it dry on the screw, they put it all around the diameter of it (usually). If its dry and only on one side of the screw, it won't stick with the threads well when screwing it in. When it's wet and you apply it, you don't have to apply it all around (I do anyhow) because when you rotate it, it transfers up the thread.


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## Guest (Dec 21, 2008)

Alright, thanks alot.

I will go buy some to be on the safe side.

i have to go.


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## NYCboarder (Jan 26, 2008)

CHEERS! sorry took so long to reply.. Office xmass party last night! but anyway.. the screws rome send to me did not have the blue stuff on it... I will go pick some up thanx for the info

when i apply do i let it dry or screw in while wet... I got confused with the above reply sorry


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## Rip and Ship (Nov 29, 2008)

Ya that blue loctite is the best stuff out there.


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## snowjeeper (Nov 11, 2008)

usually you do it wet, but you can do it dry also, as shown when they come from the factory they have dry loctite on the threads


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## Guest (Dec 21, 2008)

First of all, the Targa's are a super sick binding, so bravo on the purchase. The problem isn't your bindings it's that you didn't tighten the base plate screws tight enough. Get a screw driver and tighten them to your base. DO NOT over tighten, just have it taunt. If you over tighten you risk protruding your base out where you put pressure from the screws. To prevent this problem in the future, buy a driver kit, and take it on the mountain. Most mountains have screw drivers available at the bottom, but if your stuck up top it comes in handy. This advice is just coming from what I read, as I'd need to look at them closer to determine if it's something else. Most likely not, and you just need to tighten the screws on your base plate.

edit: reading the comments above, I'd stay away from any glue's or adhesives to keep it stiff. This prevents you from shifting your bindings if you ever wanted to. It's also hard to re-sell your board after you use any 3rd party adhesives. Unless they're referring to the blue loctite that comes on binding screws to begin with. You should definitely use that.


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## NYCboarder (Jan 26, 2008)

ribbed said:


> First of all, the Targa's are a super sick binding, so bravo on the purchase. The problem isn't your bindings it's that you didn't tighten the base plate screws tight enough. Get a screw driver and tighten them to your base. DO NOT over tighten, just have it taunt. If you over tighten you risk protruding your base out where you put pressure from the screws. To prevent this problem in the future, buy a driver kit, and take it on the mountain. Most mountains have screw drivers available at the bottom, but if your stuck up top it comes in handy. This advice is just coming from what I read, as I'd need to look at them closer to determine if it's something else. Most likely not, and you just need to tighten the screws on your base plate.
> 
> edit: reading the comments above, I'd stay away from any glue's or adhesives to keep it stiff. This prevents you from shifting your bindings if you ever wanted to. It's also hard to re-sell your board after you use any 3rd party adhesives. Unless they're referring to the blue loctite that comes on binding screws to begin with. You should definitely use that.


Its not that i did not tighten enough... The guys above with suggestions of the blue locite are correct. Thanx for the help everyone:thumbsup:


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## Guest (Dec 22, 2008)

NYCboarder said:


> I got the Rome targa's and today after every few runs the screws connecting to the base (board) kept coming lose and i would be able to shift the binding right and left while strapped in... did anyone else have this issue with these bindings or any other? and if so is there a fix?


Based on what you first wrote here, 99% of the time it's that you did not have the screws tightened properly, and not that the original adhesive on the binding screws, loctite, was worn down and rubbed off. You just bought these binding, how quickly do you think this stuff wears down? (not that fast, haha). And also working in a rental shop and dealing with worn down screws often, I know from experience you can still tighten binding screws down thoroughly and never have them loosen on the mountain without loctite. But I'm glad you figured it out. :thumbsup: On a side note, no one I have ever rode with or ever worked with at my shop has purchased loctite to add to their binding screws. I'd actually think purchasing a nut sack would be cheaper, faster, and more efficient to replace then worrying about industrial adhesives. In fact, tapping skies is the ONLY time I'd actually suggest applying a third party adhesive, even loctite. Mostly because you'll probably put too much on or leave unwanted residue from using wet, sticky adhesive for the next time you want to mount bindings or sell your board. The only reason wood glue is applied to skies is because the drill hole isn't always perfectly tapped and because you're not moving you're ski bindings often. Snowboard bindings are different and most people frequently change their settings, or take them off in the off season. They have a perfectly tapped strip and the screws will lock thoroughly. Adding loctite is a safety precaution, mainly for stripped hardware, and not a necessity. Especially considering you just bought these. I'd rethink some things. But to each their own.:dunno:


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## alf (Mar 14, 2008)

Man I must be incapable of tightening my binding screws properly, cuz they always come loose. I've loctited them a few times, but I always carry a driver so I can retighten on the mountain. I think after they've been re-torqued a few times without changing the position of the bindings, they stay put a little longer. Maybe the board compresses or something. It's darn annoying.

Next step would be red loctite, but they bill that stuff as "permanent" so...


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## Vlaze (Nov 12, 2008)

ribbed said:


> Based on what you first wrote here, 99% of the time it's that you did not have the screws tightened properly, and not that the original adhesive on the binding screws, loctite, was worn down and rubbed off. You just bought these binding, how quickly do you think this stuff wears down? (not that fast, haha). And also working in a rental shop and dealing with worn down screws often, I know from experience you can still tighten binding screws down thoroughly and never have them loosen on the mountain without loctite. But I'm glad you figured it out. :thumbsup: On a side note, no one I have ever rode with or ever worked with at my shop has purchased loctite to add to their binding screws. I'd actually think purchasing a nut sack would be cheaper, faster, and more efficient to replace then worrying about industrial adhesives. In fact, tapping skies is the ONLY time I'd actually suggest applying a third party adhesive, even loctite. Mostly because you'll probably put too much on or leave unwanted residue from using wet, sticky adhesive for the next time you want to mount bindings or sell your board. The only reason wood glue is applied to skies is because the drill hole isn't always perfectly tapped and because you're not moving you're ski bindings often. Snowboard bindings are different and most people frequently change their settings, or take them off in the off season. They have a perfectly tapped strip and the screws will lock thoroughly. Adding loctite is a safety precaution, mainly for stripped hardware, and not a necessity. Especially considering you just bought these. I'd rethink some things. But to each their own.:dunno:


Alright, I figured as I mentioned in previous posts I would get response like this for people that just overtighten their screws. There is a reason the screws get stripped, and it's because of overtightening to keep them in place. Yes they may stay in place, but doing it over and over, is what leads a lot of time to stripping the thread. Blue loctite, or loctite in general, is not a "third party" adhesive. It is a main adhesive used commonly for many engineering applications, I know I work with this stuff daily. 

In response to the line that the stuff doesn't wear off, and you just bought them, is correct when they are used after initial application. However when you take the screws off that contain the glue on them, you lose the main bond, the adhesive is not in sticky form, it's in solid form, and will not bond as good as it did the first time with some of it crumbled off.

By using the loctite, you do not need to tighten the screws so damn hard that so many do, it can be tightened down until resistance is met, and then tightened normally, not overtightened. There are different applciations and numbers associated with loctite for the right application which again is why I mentioned on previous posts, to check the info on the back to make sure you have it for the right application which is not wood application but metal to metal. You do not tap the board to screw in an extra screw, inserts are used, and if threads are stripped you replace the insert. You should NOT screw into the board itself without an insert. Also this adhesive is not sticky adhesive. It's wet, and dries up leaving a dry solid bond to the two pieces. 

Lastly I don't work in a retail shop or a repair shop, but I've worked with this adhesive long enough and know where it can be used to a benefit to assist. You mention you work in a rental shop enough to know what you deal with. The key point is, you work in a rental shop, so you will be adjusting the bindings and so forth for different riders all the time, so of course it's not ideal to use loctite with people who come and go using the snowboard every day or even during the same day and making adjustments all the time since this glue requires time unless an activator is used to cure properly.

It's almost like some responses get a negatory or last ditch effort connotation to resort to using the stuff. I can garauntee, using loctite is more of a peace of mind than overtightening the bindings which a lot of people do, and at times resulting in stripped threads, screws that won't loosen, or worn grooves on the screws that make it a p.i.t.a. (pain in the ass) to get the screwdriver to work. For the comment that loctite should be used only if the threads are stripped, BAD ADVICE. NEVER DO THIS. The threads are the MAIN bond, NOT the adhesive. IF you have threads stripped, replace the inserts on the board, don't F around saying bah and being stubborn. This can easily get you back in the ass on the slope when you least expect it, I wouldn't take the chance. The adhesive assists with resisting the vibration from going over the terrain and thus allowing the screws to loosen up. There is loctite used for permanent sealing, but then you wouldn't ever be able to remove your screw again without resorting to high heat (think blow torch) to melt the bond.

I would highly suggest blue loctite for YOUR own board, and not if you're working in the rental department. Also, I'm sure some pros never use it, but these guys get free equipment left and right and go through boards like condoms (excuse the exaggeration) yearly and doubtly mess with their angles that much for most of them. MOST of us, do not have this benefit, and stick with 1 or 2 boards tops a year top and do not adjust our binding angles more than a few times a year to mess around. With your own board, you will only be adjusting the thing once, twice tops I would think a year to try different set ups for most people. People who've snowboarded enough know what settings they want and usually don't change them multiple times a year, maybe for the start of the year and that's it. The only excess changes they usually make are the forward lean adjustments. If you change your settings daily, and this is again for the bindings angles only we're talking about, and change them on the mountain then it will be more of an annoyance than anything to use the loctite and it won't do a thing for you without proper curing. Rarely have I seen anyone do this nor know anyone who would do this in such excess.


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## Vlaze (Nov 12, 2008)

alf said:


> Man I must be incapable of tightening my binding screws properly, cuz they always come loose. I've loctited them a few times, but I always carry a driver so I can retighten on the mountain. I think after they've been re-torqued a few times without changing the position of the bindings, they stay put a little longer. Maybe the board compresses or something. It's darn annoying.
> 
> Next step would be red loctite, but they bill that stuff as "permanent" so...


Alf, a few questions. Are you using a medium strength blue loctite made for metal on metal, and not wood on metal or some other material application? Are you allowing it 12-24 hours for full curing or are you putting it on and using the board within a couple of hours?

I took my board a few years back to the shop to let them set it up, he applied loctite to it and I just had to tighten them down again once last year. I would suggest though reapplying the stuff at the start of each year with all the changes in the weather and the downtime the board is sitting down not at use before getting used again the next year.


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## Guest (Dec 23, 2008)

Vlaze said:


> Alright, I figured as I mentioned in previous posts I would get response like this for people that just overtighten their screws. There is a reason the screws get stripped, and it's because of overtightening to keep them in place. Yes they may stay in place, but doing it over and over, is what leads a lot of time to stripping the thread. Blue loctite, or loctite in general, is not a "third party" adhesive. It is a main adhesive used commonly for many engineering applications, I know I work with this stuff daily.


My first post warned against over tightening screws, so I don't understand how I am the type of person who 'just over tighten their screws'. The real reason you don't want to over tighten is because you'll most likely create a protrusion at each screw insert on your base. It's one of the most common problems that come in to the repair shop I work at. (I sell/repair/tech/rent boards and skis at this job, btw.) A third party adhesive is referring to something that is applied after the fact or not provided with you're equipment. i.e. Wood glue used in SKI bindings, or wet loctite for snowboard bindings. I referred to ski mounting or tapping (that means when you create the thread inside the wood ski) because it's usually makeshift and applying wood glue helps the binding stay in place. Snowboards obviously have metal inserts with metal threading - a much more consistent hold for screws. Therefore loctite becomes LESS necessary, especially if you think you need to apply it after you take your screws out. So unnecessary.



> In response to the line that the stuff doesn't wear off, and you just bought them, is correct when they are used after initial application. However when you take the screws off that contain the glue on them, you lose the main bond, the adhesive is not in sticky form, it's in solid form, and will not bond as good as it did the first time with some of it crumbled off.


No, it's going to take a lot more then just unscrewing your screws a few times to 'crumble off' the blue loctite that is already on the screws. Even more reason not to apply more. I'm referring to the guys BRAND NEW Targa bindings.



> By using the loctite, you do not need to tighten the screws so damn hard that so many do, it can be tightened down until resistance is met, and then tightened normally, not overtightened. There are different applciations and numbers associated with loctite for the right application which again is why I mentioned on previous posts, to check the info on the back to make sure you have it for the right application which is not wood application but metal to metal. You do not tap the board to screw in an extra screw, inserts are used, and if threads are stripped you replace the insert. You should NOT screw into the board itself without an insert. Also this adhesive is not sticky adhesive. It's wet, and dries up leaving a dry solid bond to the two pieces.


Again, my first post recommended keeping taunt pressure on your screws to your bindings. The threading of the metal inserts alone will hold in your screws as long as you keep taunt pressure when you tighten your bindings.



> Lastly I don't work in a retail shop or a repair shop, but I've worked with tis adhesive long enough and know where it can be used to a benefit to assist. You mention you work in a rental shop enough to know what you deal with. The key point is, you work in a rental shop, so you will be adjusting the bindings and so forth for different riders all the time, so of course it's not ideal to use loctite with people who come and go using the snowboard every day or even during the same day and making adjustments all the time since this glue requires time unless an activator is used to cure properly.


Again, to each their own. If you feel loctite will assist you in keeping your bindings secured, then do it. However, I think the side effects that will occur from using it, like leftover residue from the wet bonding agent on the inserts, out weigh the benefits of it. Your going to make your board harder to mount the next time you take your bindings off and definitely will make it harder to sell. The point I mentioned my job was to contrast how often I take screws off and how often customers come back with loose binding problems. If the this were actually a problem, this would be a mandatory necessity at every shop. But it's not a problem, and is made up in your head. It's really just simply you didn't tighten your screw enough, or the board you put the Targa's on had striped inserts. At this point, I'd replace your inserts/board.



> It's almost like some responses get a negatory or last ditch effort connotation to resort to using the stuff. I can garauntee, using loctite is more of a peace of mind than overtightening the bindings which a lot of people do, and at times resulting in stripped threads, screws that won't loosen, or worn grooves on the screws that make it a p.i.t.a. (pain in the ass) to get the screwdriver to work. For the comment that loctite should be used only if the threads are stripped, BAD ADVICE. NEVER DO THIS. The threads are the MAIN bond, NOT the adhesive. IF you have threads stripped, replace the inserts on the board, don't F around saying bah and being stubborn. This can easily get you back in the ass on the slope when you least expect it, I wouldn't take the chance. The adhesive assists with resisting the vibration from going over the terrain and thus allowing the screws to loosen up. There is loctite used for permanent sealing, but then you wouldn't ever be able to remove your screw again without resorting to high heat (think blow torch) to melt the bond.


I just said the threads are the main bond in my second post, so now you're repeating what I said and agreeing with me. 
In no way does the adhesive resist vibration to your board allowing your screws to loosen. The two have nothing to do with the other, and board dampening is caused by attributes to each board and nothing to do with loctite. If you disagree I'd like you to actually chart how significant you think loctite can be on dampening. Seeming my side relates to every tech manuel written by every company describing how their boards tech creates dampening. I don't see loctite anywhere. Your imagining this.



> I would highly suggest blue loctite for YOUR own board, and not if you're working in the rental department. Also, I'm sure some pros never use it, but these guys get free equipment left and right and go through boards like condoms (excuse the exaggeration) yearly and doubtly mess with their angles that much for most of them. MOST of us, do not have this benefit, and stick with 1 or 2 boards tops a year top and do not adjust our binding angles more than a few times a year to mess around. With your own board, you will only be adjusting the thing once, twice tops I would think a year to try different set ups for most people. People who've snowboarded enough know what settings they want and usually don't change them multiple times a year, maybe for the start of the year and that's it. The only excess changes they usually make are the forward lean adjustments. If you change your settings daily, and this is again for the bindings angles only we're talking about, and change them on the mountain then it will be more of an annoyance than anything to use the loctite and it won't do a thing for you without proper curing. Rarely have I seen anyone do this nor know anyone who would do this in such excess.


I don't think loctite is necessary but if want to use it on your board, go ahead. Of course, loctite has its purpose even in snowboard screws, but as long as it's dry. Wet loctite will leave a residue you don't want. This is why I suggested just buying a nut sack as a more viable option. I disagree with you saying 'most of us' adjust bindings a few times a year. There are various situations to move your stance, and if you don't I don't think you get out much, or are taking advantage of things. I also know lots of people have lots of different set ups and therefore have lots of different opportunities to change th eir bindings out. When you say you rarely see anyone adjusting their bindings, I think you need to be more aware the next time your at a mountain. People are at the screw driver bench at all times.


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## Vlaze (Nov 12, 2008)

ribbed said:


> My first post warned against over tightening screws, so I don't understand how I am the type of person who 'just over tighten their screws'. The real reason you don't want to over tighten is because you'll most likely create a protrusion at each screw insert on your base. It's one of the most common problems that come in to the repair shop I work at. (I sell/repair/tech/rent boards and skis at this job, btw.) A third party adhesive is referring to something that is applied after the fact or not provided with you're equipment. i.e. Wood glue used in SKI bindings, or wet loctite for snowboard bindings. I referred to ski mounting or tapping (that means when you create the thread inside the wood ski) because it's usually makeshift and applying wood glue helps the binding stay in place. Snowboards obviously have metal inserts with metal threading - a much more consistent hold for screws. Therefore loctite becomes LESS necessary, especially if you think you need to apply it after you take your screws out. So unnecessary.


For the end of this portion, I'm sorry, but this is not true. Just because you have better bonding with metal to metal for threads, does not eliminate the issue of them getting loose from the vibrating of the board going over versatile terrain and especially for park rats going over rails and jumps. It is still necessary imo, and many people consider using it professionally.



ribbed said:


> No, it's going to take a lot more then just unscrewing your screws a few times to 'crumble off' the blue loctite that is already on the screws. Even more reason not to apply more. I'm referring to the guys BRAND NEW Targa bindings.


Again, it can crumble off pretty easily, in fact, most of the time replacing them all I see is left over residue, and residue is residue. It's not dried adhesive left on the screw and there is no negative effect to this other than the color notice on the screw itself. And if you do apply more after changing your binding angles, you remove the original dried up adhesive, (again it's not sticky like wood glue). It's common sense to not just apply more to the left over dried up stuff already used without properly cleaning the threads and applying new loctite to it



ribbed said:


> Again, my first post recommended keeping taunt pressure on your screws to your bindings. The threading of the metal inserts alone will hold in your screws as long as you keep taunt pressure when you tighten your bindings.


All year long, no it will not and I will disagree. This is why when I do see those people who are working on the small stations outside the lodge with the screwdriver using them. They're not adjusting angles, they're tightening down their bindings again and more than likely not using loctite.



ribbed said:


> Again, to each their own. If you feel loctite will assist you in keeping your bindings secured, then do it. However, I think the side effects that will occur from using it, like leftover residue from the wet bonding agent on the inserts, out weigh the benefits of it. Your going to make your board harder to mount the next time you take your bindings off and definitely will make it harder to sell. The point I mentioned my job was to contrast how often I take screws off and how often customers come back with loose binding problems. If the this were actually a problem, this would be a mandatory necessity at every shop. But it's not a problem, and is made up in your head. It's really just simply you didn't tighten your screw enough, or the board you put the Targa's on had striped inserts. At this point, I'd replace your inserts/board.


Again, residue is residue and a visual effect, it does not affect the threads working in the inserts of anything of the such. If one is worried on it, blow out the broken loctite after removing the screws from the insert threads with an air compressor. And this is not made up in my head, as I posted above this, this is why I see people on the stations with the screwdriver, because they're continually retightening their bindings. Just because people don't come back, doesn't mean they're not taking care of it themselves at the stations. And secondly, my posts does not mean it will get loose not using loctite in one day, I'm referring to over time.



ribbed said:


> I just said the threads are the main bond in my second post, so now you're repeating what I said and agreeing with me. In no way does the adhesive resist vibration to your board allowing your screws to loosen. The two have nothing to do with the other, and board dampening is caused by attributes to each board and nothing to do with loctite. If you disagree I'd like you to actually chart how significant you think loctite can be on dampening. Seeming my side relates to every tech manuel written by every company describing how their boards tech creates dampening. I don't see loctite anywhere. Your imagining this.


This is partially false due to what seems to be confusion on your part on how loctite works and misinterpretation of what I wrote. Again, I will repeat myself saying I work with this stuff daily. I am a mechanical engineer and designer, and we use the loctite for thread locking on areas that are present with lifecycles of vibrations from the dynamics of the systems we build. 

Loctite has MANY applications. Thread locking is one of them which assists with doing just that, to resist vibration to assist with preventing them from loosening which is point in case for this post, the problem WHY snowboard bindings get loose overtime. Do we use spring washers? Do we use lock nuts? No, so we have nothing assisting with preventing loosening on these screws other than tightening them down, loctite assist with this. What do you think they apply loctite for? 

I think you're confusing what I wrote. In no way did I say loctite assists with dampening to the board as a whole, it doesn't take a gear head to figure this out that adhesive on a binding screw does not help the board performance for preventing vibration. So all those board tech articles for board dampening for this post is useless. I'm saying it contributes to resisting the vibration that is caused FROM the board going over the terrain and preventing the screws from loosening, we're talking about two different things.

They just don't get loose off a jump or rails being mainly a freerider myself, it takes time for them to get loose and is due to the neverending dynamics it faces on the mountain which is again, vibration. OF course boards are made with good dampening attributes, but do you think they fully stop vibration? Do you think car suspension fully embraces all bumps and knots in the roads? The board will not do shit directly under the bindings that is screwed directly to the board not allowing the board to flex directly under them. So each time the board leaves the surface it's on and hits it again, that is creating a dynamic vibration under your board and on your bindings.



ribbed said:


> I don't think loctite is necessary but if want to use it on your board, go ahead. Of course, loctite has its purpose even in snowboard screws, but as long as it's dry. Wet loctite will leave a residue you don't want. This is why I suggested just buying a nut sack as a more viable option. I disagree with you saying 'most of us' adjust bindings a few times a year. There are various situations to move your stance, and if you don't I don't think you get out much, or are taking advantage of things. I also know lots of people have lots of different set ups and therefore have lots of different opportunities to change th eir bindings out. When you say you rarely see anyone adjusting their bindings, I think you need to be more aware the next time your at a mountain. People are at the screw driver bench at all times.


Read what I wrote above this, these people are only there on occassion I see them, retightening their bindings. I do not see them adjusting the angles messing with them all the while. Also, you sound confused on how loctite works saying dry and wet. Loctite is wet initially, and it dries up when the bond is formed. It is not either or, it is both initial and final stages.

Lastly I spoke mainly from experience seeing what I've seen on the mountain and from people I know. I rarely know anyone who adjusts binding angles at the mountain, but give it the full day trying the settings before adjusting them for the next day instead of changing them all the while in this excess. Which is why I made the point if they do this, loctite will not benefit them. It requires proper curing time which is on average 12-24 hours and is why I mentioned for rentals, is pointless and completely agree on your side for not using this in that instance. I spoke and made point to mention mainly for the average boarder who own their own gear, it's far more benefitial than just tightening them up because you have nothing assisting with resisting the vibrations that loosen your screws over time.

Peace.


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## Guest (Dec 23, 2008)

But I think when you refer to my confusion, you are actually confused on many parts of my post, and take different things out from what I actually wrote. First, I don't think loctite is unnecessary to use, but I think applying additional loctite to your binding screws is unnecessary when you can buy a brand new sack of 10 screws/washers for like a dollar. I just think taking those steps are unnecessary. I understand the uses of loctite, and I also understand the forms of it. It is wet when you apply it from a tube. It is dry when you get it from the manufacturers - how it's supposed to be applied to your binding screws when screwing them into your board. You said that you disagree the screws will not stay taunt all year long beacuse of dynamic vibrations to the board. Yeah, of course. Of course you'll need to tighten your screws up on occasion. But at the same time, I'm not keeping my one binding on my one board all year long. Maybe you do, and don't find a reason to remove your bindings. I'm likely to go through two boards and try a variety of bindings a year. The original post I responded to in this thread was in regard for how unneccessary loctite was for his brand new Targa bindings. He just bought them, he just had them loose, and he didn't have them loosen overtime - like you mention bindings do. Clearly, this was a problem of tightening and not his lack of loctite. :thumbsup:


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## snowjeeper (Nov 11, 2008)

this is like a loctite pissing contest.


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## NYCboarder (Jan 26, 2008)

ribbed said:


> No, it's going to take a lot more then just unscrewing your screws a few times to 'crumble off' the blue loctite that is already on the screws. Even more reason not to apply more. I'm referring to the guys BRAND NEW Targa bindings.


I never once said brand new... i do not know where that came from.. i got them last season


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## Flick Montana (Jul 9, 2007)

The loctite on my binding screws dried up and came off after 1 season. I'm debating getting more.


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## Guest (Dec 23, 2008)

NYCboarder said:


> I never once said brand new... i do not know where that came from.. i got them last season


Alright bro, take the advice and move on. :thumbsup:


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## Vlaze (Nov 12, 2008)

Flick Montana said:


> The loctite on my binding screws dried up and came off after 1 season. I'm debating getting more.


Right, like I explained in almost every post....the loctite dries up in 12-24 hours and creating the bond. I would find it hard to believe it came off when the screws are still in there, or rather impossible. I think I can assume correctly that you removed the screws and it fell off when you did so, correct? If you had no problems with the screws being loose, then I'd reapply the loctite for the second season.


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## NYCboarder (Jan 26, 2008)

of course i switched my angles up many times.. that is why i said thankyou for the info in the locktight.. end this post


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## alf (Mar 14, 2008)

Holy cow. I skimmed over the treatises (treatii?) on the last page and most of it sounded plausible, I think... 

But since Vlaze asked the question of me: I usually leave it at least overnight and it's a little bottle of Permatex "medium strength" blue. Probably purchased during the late Paleolithic period so... YMMV.

I'm generally proponent of loctite based on lots R/C airplane flying though.


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## Guest (Dec 24, 2008)

haha, OK for real, I wasn't going to bring this up because I think the damages of using wet loctite or any external adhesives is obvious for resale or remounting. But were ANY of you even aware the manufactures don't want you to do it? And if you do it voids the warranty. Got your binding warranty handy? If you don't here, I'll read you the fine print which is also available on every binding manufactures slip. "This warranty is void for damage caused by solvents or thread-locking adhesives." This is why every ski shop does not do it, it is not an industry standard to apply it after the fact, and it is not recommended by me. If you want to stick with your solution to the problem, it's your board. This conversation wouldn't be happening if you came into my shop about this problem because I would of told you a long time ago it's your board, do what you want, but don't expect anyone to honor your warranty - and then let you on your way. Binding manufacturers do not want you to do it, and every ski tech you ever talk to does not recommend the use of loctite as an additional material. And seriously, the stuff does not crumble off that easy, your kidding me. I wanted to get this out, I hope this issue is clear for both of you. :laugh::laugh::laugh:


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## Guest (Dec 24, 2008)

ribbed said:


> haha, OK for real, I wasn't going to bring this up because I think the damages of using wet loctite or any external adhesives is obvious for resale or remounting. But were ANY of you even aware the manufactures don't want you to do it? And if you do it voids the warranty. Got your binding warranty handy? If you don't here, I'll read you the fine print which is also available on every binding manufactures slip. "This warranty is void for damage caused by solvents or thread-locking adhesives." This is why every ski shop does not do it, it is not an industry standard to apply it after the fact, and it is not recommended by me. If you want to stick with your solution to the problem, it's your board. This conversation wouldn't be happening if you came into my shop about this problem because I would of told you a long time ago it's your board, do what you want, but don't expect anyone to honor your warranty - and then let you on your way. Binding manufacturers do not want you to do it, and every ski tech you ever talk to does not recommend the use of loctite as an additional material. And seriously, the stuff does not crumble off that easy, your kidding me. I wanted to get this out, I hope this issue is clear for both of you. :laugh::laugh::laugh:


"Damage from the use of solvents, adhesives, or other substances not specifically determined for use on snowboard products. "

From Rome's warranty page, Warranty | Rome Snowboard Design Syndicate 2009

Creative word addition there.

How, exactly, do you think a thread-locking compound can damage a board and/or bindings? Or affect resale?

You seem to be under the impression that loctite and other thread-locking compounds are the equivalent of squirting gorilla glue in your threads. The only adhesive property of a thread-locking compound is the wet compound not pouring over threads like water. Wet, it will wipe off easily with a paper towel. Dry, it will easily flake off.

The threadlocking compound clings very loosely to the fastener it is applied to -- the adhesiveness is actually very poor, as it is designed to flow into the threads. Then, when you fasten it down, the compound contains a resin that solidifies in the absence of air. In effect, what this does is fill in gaps in the threading that would otherwise allow vibrations to shake it out. It is is no way, shape, or form using adhesion to keep the threads locked. The level of "lock" is determined by the strength of the resin. Loctite blue is extremely weak and brittle. It is meant to withstand nothing more than a few inch-pounds of torque before crumbling. Even if you used loctite red, the most damage you would cause would be rounding out the screws.

Please don't take this is a flame, but your obvious misunderstanding of how a threadlocking compound works is painfully apparent by the fact that, in arguing against it, you brought up wood glue. It is not a glue or a paste. In fact, if you were compare it to anything, it is most similiar to wrapping the threads in silicone tape. Which, btw, is also a very real solution to this issue. And if you're worried about the FUD being spread in this thread about loctite and warranties, silicone tape is not even termed an adhesive, so feel free to use that.


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## Guest (Dec 24, 2008)

ribbed said:


> Snowboards obviously have metal inserts with metal threading - a much more consistent hold for screws. Therefore loctite becomes LESS necessary, especially if you think you need to apply it after you take your screws out. So unnecessary.


So, explain the invention of lock washers if this is the case?





> No, it's going to take a lot more then just unscrewing your screws a few times to 'crumble off' the blue loctite that is already on the screws. Even more reason not to apply more. I'm referring to the guys BRAND NEW Targa bindings.


Actually, that's all it will take. Because it's a resin, not a glue.




> Again, my first post recommended keeping taunt pressure on your screws to your bindings. The threading of the metal inserts alone will hold in your screws as long as you keep taunt pressure when you tighten your bindings.


Again, why do lockwashers exist? Why was loctite invented? Why does every nut and bolt in a car's engine bay and suspension have loctite red?



> I just said the threads are the main bond in my second post, so now you're repeating what I said and agreeing with me.
> In no way does the adhesive resist vibration to your board allowing your screws to loosen. The two have nothing to do with the other, and board dampening is caused by attributes to each board and nothing to do with loctite. If you disagree I'd like you to actually chart how significant you think loctite can be on dampening. Seeming my side relates to every tech manuel written by every company describing how their boards tech creates dampening. I don't see loctite anywhere. Your imagining this.


Loctite, again, is not an adhesive. It also does not secure bindings to a board. This is not in question. However, by filling in the gaps in a thread to thread interface, you stop them from vibrating loose. They still vibrate, but they vibrate together, essentially. The loctite is not there to prevent any vibration or create any dampening -- it's to prevent the threads from disengaging as a result of the vibration.





> I don't think loctite is necessary but if want to use it on your board, go ahead. Of course, loctite has its purpose even in snowboard screws, but as long as it's dry. Wet loctite will leave a residue you don't want. This is why I suggested just buying a nut sack as a more viable option. I disagree with you saying 'most of us' adjust bindings a few times a year. There are various situations to move your stance, and if you don't I don't think you get out much, or are taking advantage of things. I also know lots of people have lots of different set ups and therefore have lots of different opportunities to change th eir bindings out. When you say you rarely see anyone adjusting their bindings, I think you need to be more aware the next time your at a mountain. People are at the screw driver bench at all times.


The problem with your logic is this: The dry loctite that you see on new screws started out as wet loctite. It is put onto the threads, and then dries and hardens into the resin that you see on a fresh screw. While this will work in locking the threads, it's actually *less* effective than applying wet loctite yourself. The issue is, with a wet application, it precisely fills any gaps in tolerances. In a pre-dried application, it just crumbles and jams itself in the threads.

Wanna know the ironic part? The reason they do this is because individuals and shops don't all do it, and it's safer than nothing.


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## Guest (Dec 24, 2008)

o shit im an idiot.
Last night i took my bindings off my board and noticed some blue stuff on the screws and didnt think it belonged there so i peeled it off. And sure enough i noticed my bindings kept coming loose today. what do i do now!!!?!?


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## Jenzo (Oct 14, 2008)

Dirtyeggroll said:


> o shit im an idiot.
> Last night i took my bindings off my board and noticed some blue stuff on the screws and didnt think it belonged there so i peeled it off. And sure enough i noticed my bindings kept coming loose today. what do i do now!!!?!?


sorry but, that gave me a chuckle. :laugh:

Just buy some locktite


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## arsenic0 (Nov 11, 2008)

Im with the Pro Loctite people. As someone who has used it a lot in RC Airplanes and on my old board(need to get some new loctite for new board) it does work. I rode my old board the entire season, probably 13ish trips up to the mountain and never retightened my bindings once. When i finally did take them off it was not that difficult. I dont see how it could actually damange your board, or your bindings. Or if it did that there would be any way for them to prove it after you pull off the loctite flakes...


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## Triple8Sol (Nov 24, 2008)

This thread should have ended with post #2. Just put a very tiny dab on each screw. It will work itself through the threads as you tighten the screws.










/thread


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## Jenzo (Oct 14, 2008)

Triple8Sol said:


> This thread should have ended with post #2. Just put a very tiny dab on each screw. It will work itself through the threads as you tighten the screws.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You want the thread to end, yet you post pics of the explosive, hydrochloric acid form of locktite, now he's going to simultaneously explode and this feet will melt into acid puddles.


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## snowjeeper (Nov 11, 2008)

ribbed said:


> haha, OK for real, I wasn't going to bring this up because I think the damages of using wet loctite or any external adhesives is obvious for resale or remounting. But were ANY of you even aware the manufactures don't want you to do it? And if you do it voids the warranty. Got your binding warranty handy? If you don't here, I'll read you the fine print which is also available on every binding manufactures slip. "This warranty is void for damage caused by solvents or thread-locking adhesives." This is why every ski shop does not do it, it is not an industry standard to apply it after the fact, and it is not recommended by me. If you want to stick with your solution to the problem, it's your board. This conversation wouldn't be happening if you came into my shop about this problem because I would of told you a long time ago it's your board, do what you want, but don't expect anyone to honor your warranty - and then let you on your way. Binding manufacturers do not want you to do it, and every ski tech you ever talk to does not recommend the use of loctite as an additional material. And seriously, the stuff does not crumble off that easy, your kidding me. I wanted to get this out, I hope this issue is clear for both of you. :laugh::laugh::laugh:


since this is now just getting silly, my bindings from Rome came with RED LOCTITE on the screws FROM THE FACTORY. lol. You seem like a really smart guy ribbed, but I don't know why you're getting stuck on this.


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## Guest (Mar 3, 2009)

Sorry to resurrect an old thread but as a noob I figured it was better to search and reply to an old topic rather than start a whole new thread.

Anyway, I recently bought a new '07 Arbor Formula and some '09 Union Contact bindings as my first set up. Not feeling entirely comfortable with mounting everything on my own I had the shop go ahead and do it. The first time out everything was great. During the second time out my bindings started to come loose a bit and I was able to wiggle them back and forth a bit. As a beginner I didn't realize this was really bad and went on a few more runs before calling it a day. 

After getting home I read up on some stuff (loose bindings, binding angles, etc.) and decided to go ahead and tweak everything myself. When adjusting my bindings I noticed that all of the screws had some loctite on them already. I assume it's from the shop because my brother bought a board at the same time and his binding screws have loctite as well. I didn't apply any more loctite but I did tighten my bindings pretty tight and everything seemed good to go.

Fast forward to yesterday. After a few runs my bindings are loose again. I had to tighten them a few times throughout the day. It's especially annoying because the Contacts have a base plate (not sure if that's the right word?) over the binding screws. 

So, to make a long story even longer... is there something up with my set up that is incompatible? This thread makes me think Union bindings and Austrian made boards might not get along. Or is it something as simple as applying some more loctite myself and giving it another shot? Anything else? Unfortunately I won't be able to make it out again this year but I was hoping for some resolution soon so I can return the board/bindings(probably not even an option as I've used the setup 3 times) or buy something else on sale now. 

Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated.


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## legallyillegal (Oct 6, 2008)

the idea that austrian boards and union bindings don't match is complete bupkus

union is c3
capita is c3
elan makes capita
elan is austrian (and produces 1 out of every 5 snowboards on the market)


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## Guest (Mar 4, 2009)

sas410 said:


> Sorry to resurrect an old thread but as a noob I figured it was better to search and reply to an old topic rather than start a whole new thread.
> 
> Anyway, I recently bought a new '07 Arbor Formula and some '09 Union Contact bindings as my first set up. Not feeling entirely comfortable with mounting everything on my own I had the shop go ahead and do it. The first time out everything was great. During the second time out my bindings started to come loose a bit and I was able to wiggle them back and forth a bit. As a beginner I didn't realize this was really bad and went on a few more runs before calling it a day.
> 
> ...


So I brought my brother's setup over (Forum board with Burton bindings) as a frame of reference (I'm not sure exactly how tight bindings SHOULD be) and to see if everything would work if I switched things around. When I put the Burton bindings on my Arbor Formula they tightened up a lot better/easier than my Union Contacts. Then I tried to put my Union Contacts on his Forum board and there was still a bit of wiggle. Are my Union Contacts defective? Am I hosed?


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## rgrwilco (Oct 15, 2007)

legallyillegal said:


> the idea that austrian boards and union bindings don't match is complete bupkus
> 
> union is c3
> capita is c3
> ...


my contacts/datas did not work with my rome graft. would move around even when they were as tight as they would go. my friends burtons worked, my romes worked(obiously). but they fit just fine on my stairmaster.

another oddity: i was given a pair of ride delta mvmt brand new. the baseplates did not line up with the holes on my graft at all, but did on the stairmaster. to be sure the graft wasnt bad i tried em on my friends artifact. no luck. strange world


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## arsenic0 (Nov 11, 2008)

Maybe contact Union and tell them what you've done? They would be the authority, maybe you have a crappy base plate with bad teeth, or bad bindings with bad teeth that arent gripping eachother properly and slipping. If your base plate allows it flip it 180 degree's and try to see if its the teeth that are just worn out somehow?


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## kri$han (Feb 24, 2007)

Bump for this thread.

I'm also a "pro-loctite" user, but last year I learned a hard lesson about letting the Loctite get all over my base plates: It caused the plastic to deteriorate, and made them crack. AND I was still having my binding screws come loose  The Confusing thing is that I have bindings by Burton AND Rome, and only the Rome's deteriorated :\ The Burtons are still good...

Rome was wicked and sent me a replacement set however, they've instructed me NOT to use Loctite.

I've heard of a new product recently, called "Loctite Tape", basically you wrap the tape around the screws so that it doesn't get all over the place during install (like when a wet screw is being inserted into the base plate).










I also don't think I'll be removing my bindings whenever I wax the board, this year.


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## andrewboktor (Nov 11, 2010)

kri$han said:


> Bump for this thread.
> 
> I'm also a "pro-loctite" user, but last year I learned a hard lesson about letting the Loctite get all over my base plates: It caused the plastic to deteriorate, and made them crack. AND I was still having my binding screws come loose  The Confusing thing is that I have bindings by Burton AND Rome, and only the Rome's deteriorated :\ The Burtons are still good...
> 
> ...


You guys have to find an obfuscated solution for every problem, don't you?

Just put the freakin' loctite in the insert, position your base plate and insert your screws. No chance of getting it anywhere other than the insert/screw combination.


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## Beatlesfan888 (Jul 8, 2010)

it wont get inside the threads therefore missing the point of using it


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## andrewboktor (Nov 11, 2010)

Beatlesfan888 said:


> it wont get inside the threads therefore missing the point of using it


That's if you deliberately put it on the bottom of the insert, just squirt a little drop on the side (on the thread), just do it in the insert instead on the screw and your good to go without screwing up your bindings.


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## arsenic0 (Nov 11, 2008)

I would never put loctite down into the insert, imo its just going to harden at the bottom and be a bitch to remove and not really do anything to keep the bolts in. Just a small dab on the threads and let it set...


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## treymchattie (Aug 6, 2008)

DAKINE Binding Hardware - Snowboard Shop > Snow Accessories > Binding Accessories

should do you well, already have loctite on them. there is a better alternative out there, i just cant find them, but they have a cut in the threads with a small piece of soft plastic glued in place. think my ride LX's came with some


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## Beatlesfan888 (Jul 8, 2010)

yeah im not to worried about it though you just be careful about it and not use too much, or use that loctite tape. Ive heard that some shops use teflon tape too (used on air pipe threads to seal them off) ive never actually tried it myself though.


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## treymchattie (Aug 6, 2008)

Beatlesfan888 said:


> yeah im not to worried about it though you just be careful about it and not use too much, or use that loctite tape. Ive heard that some shops use teflon tape too (used on air pipe threads to seal them off) ive never actually tried it myself though.


teflon tape would work well and is easily removable. just be sure to use lots of it


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## extra0 (Jan 16, 2010)

damn, this thread is old...what the hay:

I ride targas and, although I did have to put loctite on all the other screws, I haven't had to mess with the insert screws at all. 

in the first place, I think the proper way is to to tighten the insert screws at home/room temperature, then re-tighten them when they're cold after your first run (you'll get in another quarter turn). Mine stay tight this way without loctite.


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## Beatlesfan888 (Jul 8, 2010)

yeah thats a good point the metal contracts


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## Derek (Dec 30, 2008)

Edit: Posted in the wrong thread


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