# Advice on jacket



## ealxele (Nov 9, 2020)

Hey guys, about to go on my first snowboarding trip.

Found a good deal on this just wondering if this would be ideal for snowboarding. Going to Breckenridge.

Mountain Hardwear Exposure/2™ GORE-TEX Pro Jacket

Thank you in advance!


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## WigMar (Mar 17, 2019)

That's a nice jacket! It's probably overkill for Breckenridge. The air and the snow up there are both pretty dry. Gore-Tex is better suited to the North West imo. In Summit County, I stay dry in 10,000mm on even the heaviest pow days.


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## ealxele (Nov 9, 2020)

Thank you for the reply! Ah, I gotcha. I guess I was trying to find something that would be able to handle everything that's why I went with this one. But I guess there is a jacket for each occasion. Even though it's overkill you think it would still be OK to wear? And would this be ideal for snowboarding?


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## WigMar (Mar 17, 2019)

Yeah, that looks like a great jacket for snowboarding. I like using shells like that because you can layer whatever you need underneath for whatever the temperature is. I also like the underarm vents for when you're working hard.


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## ealxele (Nov 9, 2020)

Again thank you so much for the reply! Super excited lol do you have any tips for first-timers?


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## smellysell (Oct 29, 2018)

ealxele said:


> Again thank you so much for the reply! Super excited lol do you have any tips for first-timers?


Hug yourself when you're falling. 

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## WigMar (Mar 17, 2019)

Maybe get some padded impact shorts to cushion your falls and keep your backside warm when you're on the snow all day. Like Smelly said, don't break a wrist. Lessons are dope. 

Don't get too discouraged. It'll click soon enough, and you'll have the time of your life.


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## Craig64 (Jul 16, 2015)

Looks like a 3L GORE-TEX pro jacket similar to the Burton Hover. _Cohæsive™_ hood stoppers.


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## BoarderHack89 (Mar 1, 2020)

Anyone have reccos for impact shorts, oddly tough to find reputable brands other then stuff on amaZon


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## Donutz (May 12, 2010)

For most levels of impact, the Burton impact shorts are fine. I don't think they'd be enough if you slammed on a rail, but for most unexpected landings, they do enough to spread the force of impact. And they're about as low-profile as you can get.


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## BoarderHack89 (Mar 1, 2020)

Call me cheap but those look insanely overpriced . My son has football shorts that look to have more padding from Nike that were $39


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## Grunky (Mar 21, 2019)

For impact shorts, you can look for motorcylce equipment. If you can find something built with D3O material, it's the best. It feels very soft and flexible, but it strenghten on impact. 
I recommend it also for park riding, especially for rails.


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## BoardieK (Dec 21, 2015)

I'd say a powder skirt is pretty essential for a novice and that jacket doesn't have one.


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## Donutz (May 12, 2010)

BoarderHack89 said:


> Call me cheap but those look insanely overpriced . My son has football shorts that look to have more padding from Nike that were $39


Oh, they're definitely expensive. But to borrow an aphorism from project management, you can have cheap, you can have good protection, or you can have low profile. Pick any two.


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

Does the jacket have a powder skirt? To me, that's a must in a snowboarding jacket... (next to underarm vents), even if not novice.


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## Donutz (May 12, 2010)

neni said:


> Does the jacket have a powder skirt? To me, that's a must in a snowboarding jacket... (next to underarm vents), even if not novice.


Yeah, when I'm looking at a jacket, I look for powder skirt, wrist gaiters, pit vents, good pocketses (gollum), and level of waterproofing. Doesn't absolutely have to have all of those (except good waterproofing), but if it fails on too many items, I put it back on the rack.


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

Donutz said:


> Yeah, when I'm looking at a jacket, I look for powder skirt, wrist gaiters, pit vents, good pocketses (gollum), and level of waterproofing. Doesn't absolutely have to have all of those (except good waterproofing), but if it fails on too many items, I put it back on the rack.


Agree expect of wrist gaiters. Don't like them. They seem to always jam/tangle with mid layer. Plus... as oldschool glove over cuff gal, I don't need them


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## BoarderHack89 (Mar 1, 2020)

Donutz said:


> Oh, they're definitely expensive. But to borrow an aphorism from project management, you can have cheap, you can have good protection, or you can have low profile. Pick any two.


 That’s the thing , they look cheap. also I thinka firm foam would be better then what looks like plastic on the burton


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## Grunky (Mar 21, 2019)

BoarderHack89 said:


> also I thinka firm foam would be better then what looks like plastic on the burton


It's not plastic, it's G-Form. It's quite similar to 3DO. It looks like plastic, but it's very flexible, and very light. 
But if you hit it, it strenghtens and absorb a lot. It's massively used in motocycle equipment, for racing or off-road. It's one of the best protections. 
But G-Form also has it's own line of products, for skateboarding, you may find them cheaper than Burton in skateshops.


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## drblast (Feb 28, 2017)

Burton Impact shorts work well, and last a long time. I have multiple 40+ day seasons on mine. They're also comfortable and thin enough to wear over a base layer and underneath snow pants so I can just drive in them and hop out of the car and go. The best protection is stuff that you actually wear.

As far as the jacket, it's a great deal but wouldn't be my first choice especially for a beginner. I think that would be much better suited to backcountry where you're moving around so much that you're more concerned about staying cool than staying warm, and where you also want to buy expensive base and mid layers.

As a resort rider you want something insulated so you don't have to buy and pack on the layers just to stay warm. Better yet it should have a powder skirt, and be somewhat long and slightly baggy in case you do want to add layers on the super cold days. For me, 32 Degree base layers from Costco and an insulated breathable jacket cover 95% of resort riding. If you're super thin and freeze easily like my vegan rock-climbing buddy, you might want a puffy vest mid-layer from Patagonia or North Face. I have one of those and it's great for that 5% of the time when I'm at Blackcomb on an especially cold and windy day.

For warmer spring days I'll ditch the jacket entirely and wear a cheap hoodie from Old Navy.


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## ealxele (Nov 9, 2020)

BoardieK said:


> I'd say a powder skirt is pretty essential for a novice and that jacket doesn't have one.


Just curious why is it pretty essential?


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## ealxele (Nov 9, 2020)

neni said:


> Does the jacket have a powder skirt? To me, that's a must in a snowboarding jacket... (next to underarm vents), even if not novice.


No it doesn't have one. Why is the powder skirt a must?


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## Grunky (Mar 21, 2019)

ealxele said:


> Just curious why is it pretty essential?


As a novice you may fall quite often, or spend time on your ass or knees. Powder skirt will prevent snow to enter from the bottom of your jacket.


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## WigMar (Mar 17, 2019)

Bibs help with that too.


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## ealxele (Nov 9, 2020)

drblast said:


> Burton Impact shorts work well, and last a long time. I have multiple 40+ day seasons on mine. They're also comfortable and thin enough to wear over a base layer and underneath snow pants so I can just drive in them and hop out of the car and go. The best protection is stuff that you actually wear.
> 
> As far as the jacket, it's a great deal but wouldn't be my first choice especially for a beginner. I think that would be much better suited to backcountry where you're moving around so much that you're more concerned about staying cool than staying warm, and where you also want to buy expensive base and mid layers.
> 
> ...


Thank you for the reply. When you say something insulated would you recommend going from 3L to 2L? Because the 3L Pro would be more breathable compared to the 2L. I can see what you're saying since mine is a regular jacket more on the slim side not baggy. What's so important about a powder skirt? Thank you.


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## ealxele (Nov 9, 2020)

Grunky said:


> As a novice you may fall quite often, or spend time on your ass or knees. Powder skirt will prevent snow to enter from the bottom of your jacket.


I gotcha, makes sense. Thank you!


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## ealxele (Nov 9, 2020)

WigMar said:


> Bibs help with that too.


Yea I was looking at some! I was all worried about getting 3L and guess overlooked getting things like the powder skirt/bibs etc.


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## Craig64 (Jul 16, 2015)

ealxele said:


> Thank you for the reply. When you say something insulated would you recommend going from 3L to 2L? Because the 3L Pro would be more breathable compared to the 2L. I can see what you're saying since mine is a regular jacket more on the slim side not baggy. What's so important about a powder skirt? Thank you.


A powder skirt is a locked in protection/junction between the Jacket and the pants it can be zipper/tagged together and prevents snow getting dragged down your back/bum when you stack. 3L Pro is up there with the best system but generally they are just a shells. I'd say you would be able to get 3L insulated but they would be $$$$$$. An insulated jacket is heaps better than multiple base layers but locks you in to whatever rating it is. You can vent out to reduce heat though. If you have the money then go for multiple jackets but if not get the 3L and insulate with appropriate base layers depending on the Temp's.

Have a look at my outerwear reviews for more info.


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## Kevington (Feb 8, 2018)

2L is fine if you don't need it to be ultra light and pack down tiny in a backpack. Thats what 3L is for - backcountry missions where every gram counts and mega breathability for moving uphill under your own steam. Another reason some people prefer a shell with a mid layer(s) for warmth is that they move independently from each other. You get more mobility with that set up as the shell slides over the mid layer as you move. If I wear an insulated jacket it feels really bulky and restrictive, a puffy under a shell feels way better to me.


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## Mike256 (Oct 13, 2013)

Dont prioritise 3L vs 2L over other features. I have both, both work great. Youre going to have fun with that jacket cuz its snowboarding so if you like it get it. Personally though id rather a jacket with mesh on the underarm vents as i usually leave mine open, no mesh would fill snow. I like volcom zip tech over traditional powder skirts, before ziptech id never use my powder skirt and i survived so i wouldnt stress too much about that if its the jacket you want unless you really hate wet underpants (which will happen), or as others said wear bibs.


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## drblast (Feb 28, 2017)

ealxele said:


> Thank you for the reply. When you say something insulated would you recommend going from 3L to 2L? Because the 3L Pro would be more breathable compared to the 2L. I can see what you're saying since mine is a regular jacket more on the slim side not baggy. What's so important about a powder skirt? Thank you.


I wouldn't worry about 3L or 2L at all. There are two schools here, one is that you get a shell jacket (these are literally paper-thin) and layer underneath. The other is an insulated jacket with perhaps a base layer.

I have both. Same company, same fit, and I use the insulated jacket for resort riding and the shell for backcountry. In the backcountry the trick is to stay dry, which because you're walking up a mountain with gear means you're sweating a ton and breathability is important - insulation that you can't take off is your enemy. So a base layer with shell is what you do. You freeze for about 2 minutes then as you get moving you warm up. If you stop for lunch or at the top for a break, you get cold very fast and need a down/puffy middle layer. But you have a backpack and carry that all with you.

At resorts, you ride lifts up so half the time you're sitting there not moving in potentially windy conditions. That gets really cold. Riding, you get hot again, but nothing like hiking up a mountain so breathability is a little less important. I really don't like the extra bulk of a middle layer in resorts and it's one more thing to forget or to have to pack away if you get too hot, so insulated jacket that's warm 95% of the days it is. And the insulated jacket isn't particularly bulky; I feel more constricted the more layers I have on. (This is my insulated jacket: Armada Atka at evo)

As I'm tall (6'3") with fairly broad shoulders things like jacket and sleeve length are much more important to me than rating numbers. All the gore-tex in the world makes no difference if you can't tighten your bindings because your too-short jacket sleeves tug at you, or if snow gets up under the jacket when you fall, or if when you're sitting on the lift you have plumber butt.

The shell jackets work best if you have a full complement of other gear like bibs, base layers, and a breathable middle layer. If you _don't_ already have that then you're going to be spending a bundle to be comfortable and shopping for that stuff will be a baffling ordeal. But a decent insulated jacket and some Burton Covert pants on sale and you're good for 95% of resort riding.


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## ealxele (Nov 9, 2020)

drblast said:


> I wouldn't worry about 3L or 2L at all. There are two schools here, one is that you get a shell jacket (these are literally paper-thin) and layer underneath. The other is an insulated jacket with perhaps a base layer.
> 
> I have both. Same company, same fit, and I use the insulated jacket for resort riding and the shell for backcountry. In the backcountry the trick is to stay dry, which because you're walking up a mountain with gear means you're sweating a ton and breathability is important - insulation that you can't take off is your enemy. So a base layer with shell is what you do. You freeze for about 2 minutes then as you get moving you warm up. If you stop for lunch or at the top for a break, you get cold very fast and need a down/puffy middle layer. But you have a backpack and carry that all with you.
> 
> ...


Thank you so much! This is the answer I needed. I now finally understand the basic concepts. I just want to say thank you for taking the time to write all this. You are the MVP!


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## ealxele (Nov 9, 2020)

Mike256 said:


> Dont prioritise 3L vs 2L over other features. I have both, both work great. Youre going to have fun with that jacket cuz its snowboarding so if you like it get it. Personally though id rather a jacket with mesh on the underarm vents as i usually leave mine open, no mesh would fill snow. I like volcom zip tech over traditional powder skirts, before ziptech id never use my powder skirt and i survived so i wouldnt stress too much about that if its the jacket you want unless you really hate wet underpants (which will happen), or as others said wear bibs.


I will definitely take a look into ziptechs thank you!


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

If you should go with a shell and layers vs. insulated jacket also has to do with where you ride and your personal bodyheat. 

Like, where I ride, I mostly have gondolas (no freezing cold motionless exposure on chair lifts), quite long runs which keep me warm from moving, and we mostly have sunshine, i.e. mornings are chilly but the midday sun is quite warm, rarely cold wind. In an insulated jacked, I'd run too hot most of the times, even if I'd only wear one thinnest baselayer underneath. I thus only own shells, which I wear with different base layers depending on time of winter/day.

If your resort has short runs on which you hardly warm up, runs/lifts are in the shade, lifts are long slow wind exposed chairlifts where you turn into an ice cube (like in Loveland), or weather is mostly overcast or windy and cold, or your body generally looses heat quickly as soon as you don't move, then an insulated jacked would make sense as you're always quite cold.


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## smellysell (Oct 29, 2018)

I'll never buy another insulated jacket for riding, the one I own never gets used, except as an around town coast. It's preference though and the info you've gotten is solid. 

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## mjayvee (Nov 18, 2015)

ealxele said:


> I will definitely take a look into ziptechs thank you!


With Zip Tech, you pretty much just have Volcom as your only option. I remember having to help my friend get out of his Jacket because the Zip Tech zipper got stuck between the jacket and pants. But he loves his Volcom and I love my Burton AK with the traditional button & velcro fasteners on the powder skirt. Plus I use bibs for the deep days.


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## smellysell (Oct 29, 2018)

mjayvee said:


> With Zip Tech, you pretty much just have Volcom as your only option. I remember having to help my friend get out of his Jacket because the Zip Tech zipper got stuck between the jacket and pants. But he loves his Volcom and I love my Burton AK with the traditional button & velcro fasteners on the powder skirt. Plus I use bibs for the deep days.


Yep, keep being tempted by non-bibs, but know I won't wear them. Bibs are a game changer. I've taken the powder skirt out of all my jackets. 

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## WigMar (Mar 17, 2019)

smellysell said:


> Yep, keep being tempted by non-bibs, but know I won't wear them. Bibs are a game changer. I've taken the powder skirt out of all my jackets.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


Bibs over skirts all day!


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## smellysell (Oct 29, 2018)

WigMar said:


> Bibs over skirts all day!


Brother from another mother! :hifive:

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## smellysell (Oct 29, 2018)

WigMar said:


> Bibs over skirts all day!


Shell or insulated? 

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## WigMar (Mar 17, 2019)

Shells... you know!


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## smellysell (Oct 29, 2018)

WigMar said:


> Shells... you know!


[emoji3590][emoji3590][emoji3590]

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## mjayvee (Nov 18, 2015)

Shells and (lightly) insulated for me.


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## CauseNAffect (Feb 1, 2016)

seeing a lot about pow skirts.... must say once u go bib you really have no need for the extra weight. I was riding the burton AK freebird and switched back to the arcteryx theta AR. Having a jacket that feels like nothing gives you a very different experience on the hill. glad to be losing those oz's and trading them for a lighter upper body experience.


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## evocrew (Oct 29, 2020)

CauseNAffect said:


> seeing a lot about pow skirts.... must say once u go bib you really have no need for the extra weight. I was riding the burton AK freebird and switched back to the arcteryx theta AR. Having a jacket that feels like nothing gives you a very different experience on the hill. glad to be losing those oz's and trading them for a lighter upper body experience.


Def with you on loving the flexibility that wearing bibs gives!


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## skybob (Nov 27, 2020)

mjayvee said:


> Shells and (lightly) insulated for me.


+1 for this. Not too bulky and not too light.


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