# Landed on the GNU Essential Service



## BoarderHack89 (Mar 1, 2020)

So after looking at lots of boards I landed on the GNU ES. I have a DOA and Evil Twin for my indoor riding rails and jumps and the park. Wanted a directional board to bomb groomers and ride hard on the East (ice) coast. Basically first half of day park, 2nd half ride this board. Rode a 159 Ejack knife and really liked it. It took my fear away from the C3 with rocker, which felt like camber and not washy at all. Also made me think I really wanted magna traction. I had 100% confidence on ice and thinking the magna traction had a lot to do with it. Decided to rule out Arbors because I don’t want up lifted contact points on ice . Of course I could just buy a 159 EJACK but my brother has one so I can ride it once in a while. Landed on the 161 GNU ES but not sure to get the wide or not. I’m 6’0 210 with size 10.5(burton). I’m obviously leaning towards the wide but wondering your opinions. I like fast nimble boards. Again mostly groomers, I’m not taking this thing out to cliffs and riding like a pro, let’s be realistic 99% resort. I did notice the ejack felt heavier and slower at top speed and acceleration then the DOA, thinking the 161W ES will Be even worse. Of course that “heaviness” I’m sure added to the stability I felt. I guess it’s a trade off

Edit : GNU 4 162 with 257 seems cool
Also


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## MrDavey2Shoes (Mar 5, 2018)

Gonna get lots of contradicting opinions on reg vs wide. If quick/nimble is top priority and you don’t plan on laying it over on your elbow too often I’d probably go regular. Idk the specs on the board, speaking generally.


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## BoarderHack89 (Mar 1, 2020)

252 vs 262 WW


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## BoarderHack89 (Mar 1, 2020)

Local shop has last years lib tech dynamo 159 ( and anti gravity same board?) I could steal, may consider that but would have loved if it was the 161. Just happen to see if when I went for wax. Good deck for ice coast resorts ? Similar to the ES?


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## BoarderHack89 (Mar 1, 2020)

MrDavey2Shoes said:


> Gonna get lots of contradicting opinions on reg vs wide. If quick/nimble is top priority and you don’t plan on laying it over on your elbow too often I’d probably go regular. Idk the specs on the board, speaking generally.


 Yup it’s all preference, almost meaningless to ask as it’ll be split 50/50. As I posted above my local shop has last years Lib Dynamo and GNU antigravity. I’m going to be riding park over 70% of the time so don’t mind “sacrificing” and just picking up
The 159 dynamo. Just want something to keep hold on ice and go fast when the sun Goes down at Mountain creek and it freezes up instantly. Anything’s better then bombing an evil twin on ice at fast speeds, sketchy doesn’t even come close to describing it , Although I do love that board. That less friction of TBT really picks up speed fast


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## Grunky (Mar 21, 2019)

It can't telle about the Dynamo or Essential Service, but the Antigravity, I own last year's.

You said ". Wanted a directional board to bomb groomers and ride hard on the East (ice) coast ". I was looking for quite the same. As much I love the C3 camber profile with magnetraction, qhich really hods on ice, I find it to soft for bombing. When conditions are good, it's OK, but when in freezed golf balls, the board is really thrown away and shatters a lot. 
The dynamo is stiffer, and also the AntiGravity is extruded base. So personnaly, I'd go with Dynamo, or Essential Service (if I refer to the stats, I'd go ES).


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## BoarderHack89 (Mar 1, 2020)

Grunky said:


> It can't telle about the Dynamo or Essential Service, but the Antigravity, I own last year's.
> 
> You said ". Wanted a directional board to bomb groomers and ride hard on the East (ice) coast ". I was looking for quite the same. As much I love the C3 camber profile with magnetraction, qhich really hods on ice, I find it to soft for bombing. When conditions are good, it's OK, but when in freezed golf balls, the board is really thrown away and shatters a lot.
> The dynamo is stiffer, and also the AntiGravity is extruded base. So personnaly, I'd go with Dynamo, or Essential Service (if I refer to the stats, I'd go ES).


 Thank you for that, 159 dynamo seems like the one if I can get over 50% off


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## MrDavey2Shoes (Mar 5, 2018)

Honestly here is what I did when I wanted a board for Mt. Creek ice. I went into South Lodge and bought a Nitro Team Camber for $250 bucks in their shop lol. It was perfect. I know I keep saying this to everyone lately, but give that board a look. It is not directional but it has super solid hold and great pop in the park. Rips turns too.

Just to clarify something Grunk said C3 has nothing to do with stiffness it’s the camber profile. C3 varies from board to board in both stiffness and board shape. 

Anti Gravity could be ok, but if it’s like my Super Progressive Air machine, there are better choices for ice at creek.


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## Grunky (Mar 21, 2019)

Yes you're right @MrDavey2Shoes .I wasn't clear. When I said it was too soft, I was not talking about C3, which as nothing to do with stiffness, but the antigravity board. This is why Dynamo, and Essential Service, both C3 too, but stiffer, would be on my list.


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## BoarderHack89 (Mar 1, 2020)

MrDavey2Shoes said:


> Honestly here is what I did when I wanted a board for Mt. Creek ice. I went into South Lodge and bought a Nitro Team Camber for $250 bucks in their shop lol. It was perfect. I know I keep saying this to everyone lately, but give that board a look. It is not directional but it has super solid hold and great pop in the park. Rips turns too.
> 
> Just to clarify something Grunk said C3 has nothing to do with stiffness it’s the camber profile. C3 varies from board to board in both stiffness and board shape.
> 
> Anti Gravity could be ok, but if it’s like my Super Progressive Air machine, there are better choices for ice at creek.


 That’s a steal !!


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## BoarderHack89 (Mar 1, 2020)

MrDavey2Shoes said:


> Honestly here is what I did when I wanted a board for Mt. Creek ice. I went into South Lodge and bought a Nitro Team Camber for $250 bucks in their shop lol. It was perfect. I know I keep saying this to everyone lately, but give that board a look. It is not directional but it has super solid hold and great pop in the park. Rips turns too.
> 
> Just to clarify something Grunk said C3 has nothing to do with stiffness it’s the camber profile. C3 varies from board to board in both stiffness and board shape.
> 
> Anti Gravity could be ok, but if it’s like my Super Progressive Air machine, there are better choices for ice at creek.


 Lol thay had a TRS 159 and I believe 162 also. Lots to choose from !! Also cold brews


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## drblast (Feb 28, 2017)

The ES is abnormally narrow.

You definitely want a wide if you go for the Essential Service. I used to own the 159W. If you liked the EJack in 159 the ES 159w will be similar but stiffer and more chargey. The ES 161W will amp that up slightly, so if you wanna go fast and mostly straight you're on the right track. If you're worried about it being too much board the 159W will feel a little more playful.


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## freshy (Nov 18, 2009)

If your going to want to do proper carves go wide, if you want faster edge to edge and don't care too much about deep trench carving then reg.
I went through the exact same dilemma with wanting the fast edge to edge vs the sluggish wide. I hated the wide at first, but it's definitely grown on me especially when I got stiff bindings and boots.


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## BoarderHack89 (Mar 1, 2020)

There’s so many similar boards. Found a few last year model boards online.
Mullair 161W - $479
Billy goat 162- $429
Gnu 4 162 -$349

Will These ride very similar?


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## Grunky (Mar 21, 2019)

Gnu 4 is a Directional Twin, with sintered base.
Mullair is directional with extruded base.
Billy Goat is directional with sintered base. 

They are around the same flex patterns, same profile, what will differ is the 4 will be better for riding switch, the Mullair and the Billy Goat for pure directional riding, the Billy Goat having a better base material but which needs more care, and maybe a little stiffer, but almost without tapper, where the Mullair has a little more tappered shape. 

The new Essential Service is just the Mullair rebranded since they closed the contract with him. 

This is purely theoritical with the specs, didn't ride any of them. 

Without taking sizes and wide or not into account, for hard charging I'd go Billy Goat. If you want more switch riding, Gnu 4. 
But if you want/need a wide, the Mullair is still a solid board.


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## BoarderHack89 (Mar 1, 2020)

Dam you and your logic!! Ya that sums it up nicely. Leaning towards billy goat now but the 4 seems like a cool board also. Thanks for your help


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## BoarderHack89 (Mar 1, 2020)

Ok let’s change this thread to “ Narrowed Down to The Gnu billy goat and 4


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## ridethecliche (Feb 27, 2019)

I think it's funny that you started this off saying you wanted a directional and then added a directional twin to the list!


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## BoarderHack89 (Mar 1, 2020)

ridethecliche said:


> I think it's funny that you started this off saying you wanted a directional and then added a directional twin to the list!


It has the word directional, it’s a start!!!As you know it’s very tough to find a board You want that has all the exact specs and comes in a size you want. I am unwilling to compromise on C3, and would like magna traction. That alone narrows it down to only a few deck.


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## Grunky (Mar 21, 2019)

There are also other companies with edge tech not called magne traction that have camber boards.
I think that Rossignol has the jibsaw or templar which could be in the list of medium stiff boards with camber and good edge tech.


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## ridethecliche (Feb 27, 2019)

I'm actually waiting to try out my Arbor iguchi pro camber. I know you wrote them off, but I'm intrigued by the fenders because it means you won't get punished trying to chill on the same board on a more mellow run.


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## BoarderHack89 (Mar 1, 2020)

ridethecliche said:


> I'm actually waiting to try out my Arbor iguchi pro camber. I know you wrote them off, but I'm intrigued by the fenders because it means you won't get punished trying to chill on the same board on a more mellow run.


I was very hyped on the Annex and A frame but really want exceptional grip and the uprise fenders I think are a big sacrifice( In theory) I really like all 3 of the decks I listed and no doubt will love any of them. Now just narrowing it down. Also I haVe to actually pull the trigger on the 162 vs 159. Will be the biggest board I’ve Owned even though im 6’0 210 athletic build.
Def report back on the arbor


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## mjayvee (Nov 18, 2015)

Grunky said:


> Gnu 4 is a Directional Twin, with sintered base.
> Mullair is directional with extruded base.
> Billy Goat is directional with sintered base.
> 
> ...


The Mullair has a sintered base. I know, because I own the 2017 model. I have since retired that board because Nico went nuts. 

I took a loss in my quiver because of that and will need to find another freeride/big mountain board when gear goes on discount. 

The Essential Service would be the exact replacement, but I have also been considering the Capita Mercury. Mervin boards are nice for the Magne Traction and durability, but they are also heavy IMO.


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## SEWiShred (Jan 19, 2019)

BoarderHack89 said:


> I was very hyped on the Annex and A frame but really want exceptional grip and the uprise fenders I think are a big sacrifice( In theory) I really like all 3 of the decks I listed and no doubt will love any of them. Now just narrowing it down. Also I haVe to actually pull the trigger on the 162 vs 159. Will be the biggest board I’ve Owned even though im 6’0 210 athletic build.
> Def report back on the arbor


You do not always have to have edge tech to handle ice. I have a 159W Hot Knife and it grips very well, but I demoed a Donek Sabre SRT and it completely blew it away with more effective edge and no edge tech. I know they're in completely different leagues and price points, but I don't think edge tech is essential if you have enough camber and effective edge. 

Maybe someone more knowledgeable can chime in, but in my experience in the Midwest on a 123 Rosi Mini, 155 Flow Quantum, 155 Rome Artifact Rocker, 159w Hot Knife, and a day of demoing Burton Custom X, Free Thinker, and Donek Sabre SRT, the real advantage of edge tech is being able to have a shorter board and still have some of the benefits of a larger one. It's not necessary, though it has some advantages (and disadvantages).

I am 5-9, 210lbs with an athletic build too. I think you will be a lot happier on a larger board. When I went from 155w Flow Quantum (pop camber shape) to 159w Hot Knife it was like night and day on ice. But I still keep my Quantum in my quiver because it's far more forgiving and less catchy when doing things like Jumping. My next charging board will either be a 159w with edge tech or something bigger than 162 with no edge tech.


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## MrDavey2Shoes (Mar 5, 2018)

Why not look at Jones?


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## Kevington (Feb 8, 2018)

BoarderHack89 said:


> Thank you for that, 159 dynamo seems like the one if I can get over 50% off


Having ridden the Mullair (Essential Service) 159 and owned the Dynamo 159 I would say to avoid the Dynamo. I found it too soft for a freeride board and I'm only 165lbs. At your weight it will not be a bomber. The Essential Service on the other hand has basically no speed limit.


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## BoarderHack89 (Mar 1, 2020)

Kevington said:


> Having ridden the Mullair (Essential Service) 159 and owned the Dynamo 159 I would say to avoid the Dynamo. I found it too soft for a freeride board and I'm only 165lbs. At your weight it will not be a bomber. The Essential Service on the other hand has basically no speed limit.


 I found some last years model of the Mullair 161W, 4 162 and Billy goat 162. Just debating between these 3. Prob can’t go wrong with any, from Angrys reviews seems like the Billy Goat is the hard charger and still damp yet lively.


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## BoarderHack89 (Mar 1, 2020)

MrDavey2Shoes said:


> Why not look at Jones?


 Thought about he Flagship 162W


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## ridethecliche (Feb 27, 2019)

To echo what I've said above and / or elsewhere. My signal omni is a RCR board that's about 2 cm longer than my normal board size (158 vs 156) and I've never felt that was lacking grip in icy conditions. 

There's definitely a point at which I call it a day though because when it gets icy and wind swept, it's just sketchy as all fuck and not fun anymore. If it looks like that's going to be the case I'll just ride in the morning while things are still groomed. Thinking of loon over here. There are a few corners of that mountain where I definitely don't venture if it's icy and windy and they havent seen actual snow in a while.


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## BoarderHack89 (Mar 1, 2020)

ridethecliche said:


> I'm actually waiting to try out my Arbor iguchi pro camber. I know you wrote them off, but I'm intrigued by the fenders because it means you won't get punished trying to chill on the same board on a more mellow run.


 Certainly didn’t write off. Last seasons A frame is still in the back of my head. To many decks to choose from


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## edi414 (Feb 20, 2018)

Kevington said:


> Having ridden the Mullair (Essential Service) 159 and owned the Dynamo 159 I would say to avoid the Dynamo. I found it too soft for a freeride board and I'm only 165lbs. At your weight it will not be a bomber. The Essential Service on the other hand has basically no speed limit.


I love the Mullair but have to say that I don’t think it’s a hard charger. May well be that I’m comparing to the wrong boards but felt a huge gap towards boards like the Custom X for example...


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## BoarderHack89 (Mar 1, 2020)

edi414 said:


> I love the Mullair but have to say that I don’t think it’s a hard charger. May well be that I’m comparing to the wrong boards but felt a huge gap towards boards like the Custom X for example...


 What size did you ride /stats?


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## edi414 (Feb 20, 2018)

BoarderHack89 said:


> What size did you ride /stats?


I own the regular 161 at 187cm and 77kg, 10.5US Burton boots.


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## BoarderHack89 (Mar 1, 2020)

edi414 said:


> I own the regular 161 at 187cm and 77kg, 10.5US Burton boots.


I’m the same but 40lbs heavier, would love not to get the wide if I don’t have to. One of the reason I’m leaning towards the Gnu 4. Essentially same shape, very similar board maybe a tad softer and more twin


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## MrDavey2Shoes (Mar 5, 2018)

Are all the boards you’re looking at tapered? I don’t think you want taper for turning on ice. Today I took my SPAM which as I mentioned is C3 directional with Mag and taper and it was not biting at all, the back would let go. Traded out the Sims at lunch which is a stiff directional with a twin side cut no taper or edge tech but lots of effective edge and had no problems the rest of the day. Anecdotal, I know.


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## BoarderHack89 (Mar 1, 2020)

MrDavey2Shoes said:


> Are all the boards you’re looking at tapered? I don’t think you want taper for turning on ice. Today I took my SPAM which as I mentioned is C3 directional with Mag and taper and it was not biting at all, the back would let go. Traded out the Sims at lunch which is a stiff directional with a twin side cut no taper or edge tech but lots of effective edge and had no problems the rest of the day. Anecdotal, I know.


 So I rode a 159 EJACK and it felt great on the icey hard pack my DOA was sketchy as hell on. I could dig in the Ejack with full confidence. Thus started my search for a Magna Traction board. Maybe I’m associating the wrong thing (magna traction ) to the great hold. Seeing as I have a 158 DOA and 159 Evil twin I decided I needed a slightly larger more free ride type deck with magna traction. The 4, billy goat, and mullair seemed to be a nice step up from my / boards without going death plank.
Basically Mervin c3 160-162 on the free ride side of things, maybe even an aggressive all mountain


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## MrDavey2Shoes (Mar 5, 2018)

Definitely nothing wrong with Mag it’s definitely a grip enhancer but there’s other stuff you want to look at too is what I meant to get across. I’m not Anti Mag but you wanna make sure the board you’re looking at checks the other boxes too. In my opinion long effective edge and camber are a must for max grip, add Mag to that at you’ve got a winner for sure. The DOA has rocker in the tips that’s probably what you feel letting go in ice.


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## BoarderHack89 (Mar 1, 2020)

Got any suggestions ? I’d prefer a last year model to save some dough. Really leaning towards the 4 as it’s on sale for $350 and seems like a great first “larger” board for me . I like whipping around and the nimbleness of the DOA and Evil twin. I def don’t want a big board that does long drawn out turns and you can’t whip around, which is why I’m also between 159 and 162


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## Phedder (Sep 13, 2014)

If you rode and liked the E-Jack, why not buy the 162? Sounds like a safe bet meeting all your criteria and it's a board you're already familiar/a fan of.


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## BoarderHack89 (Mar 1, 2020)

Phedder said:


> If you rode and liked the E-Jack, why not buy the 162? Sounds like a safe bet meeting all your criteria and it's a board you're already familiar/a fan of.


 My brother has it lol, cant but the same deck!! But I may end up doing just that. Altough I’ve heard multiple people say don’t size up on the Ejack, and I did like the 159


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## BoarderHack89 (Mar 1, 2020)

Im riding a 162 BSOD Monday, I’ll see how that size feels. I may take a shot on the 162 Gnu 4 if I like the size.


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## MrDavey2Shoes (Mar 5, 2018)

The 4 actually looks like a good choice on paper. Specs are pretty close my Sims in terms of side cut radius, effective edge and width. Similar shape too. It has a little taper but not too much, looks like .2 cm on the 159. I know you said you want last years model but damn the 2021 graphic is cool. I’ve never ridden one so I’m going off the specs.


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## BoarderHack89 (Mar 1, 2020)

MrDavey2Shoes said:


> The 4 actually looks like a good choice on paper. Specs are pretty close my Sims in terms of side cut radius, effective edge and width. Similar shape too. It has a little taper but not too much, looks like .2 cm on the 159. I know you said you want last years model but damn the 2021 graphic is cool. I’ve never ridden one so I’m going off the specs.


 I actually like last years graphic/color over the black and white so I lucked out. I think I’m going to pull the trigger. I’m riding last years BSOD 162 Monday and will determine if I want a 159 or 162 depending how that feels.


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## MrDavey2Shoes (Mar 5, 2018)

Have you seen this yet? You’re right, graphic is cool.


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## BoarderHack89 (Mar 1, 2020)

MrDavey2Shoes said:


> Have you seen this yet? You’re right, graphic is cool.


 Yup watched every review for them all, tbh there’s some luck finding the right one. They
All basically fit the bill


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## MrDavey2Shoes (Mar 5, 2018)

Yea there is a lot out there, especially in the all mountain/free ride category. Have you looked at the Telos DST? It’s on my shortlist when I have to replace my Sims. No edge tech though.


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## BoarderHack89 (Mar 1, 2020)

MrDavey2Shoes said:


> Yea there is a lot out there, especially in the all mountain/free ride category. Have you looked at the Telos DST? It’s on my shortlist when I have to replace my Sims. No edge tech though.


 After riding the Ejack just looked at Mervin with C3


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## BoarderHack89 (Mar 1, 2020)

My main question on the Gnu 4 is this a board you size up on? Meaning it’s an all
Mountain board, yet freestyle. Is this a board I’d be better off at 159 vs 162? I’ve read the Ejack is a board you don’t size up . Def want a board where 162 is the proper size and I want a little bigger charger.


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## MrDavey2Shoes (Mar 5, 2018)

The only time I’d go with a size outside of what I’d normally ride would be for a volume shift. People differ here but it’s my opinion that if you have to size up or down on a board your using it outside of it’s intended purpose and would be best suited picking something for what you’re looking to do in the correct size. Sorry for run on sentence

Often free ride boards are longer than your normal board because of large amount of rocker in the nose or tail for float. So that 162 may actually have close to the same effective edge as a 158. The extra cms go toward float and don’t have much effect on hard pack.


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## BoarderHack89 (Mar 1, 2020)

Ya I don’t ride ANY pow, At all. This is why I’m between sizes. Will the 162 give me any advantage outside of that ?


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## BoarderHack89 (Mar 1, 2020)

Effective edge
158 DOA- 1256
159 Evil twin - 1217
Gnu 4 159/62 -1190/1210


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## MrDavey2Shoes (Mar 5, 2018)

It will give you more effective edge than the 158 which means more grip. But go with the size that best suits your weight. If you’re a super strong rider you can get away with up sizing, but I can’t imagine you’re a stronger rider than Forrest!


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## BoarderHack89 (Mar 1, 2020)

MrDavey2Shoes said:


> It will give you more effective edge than the 158 which means more grip. But go with the size that best suits your weight. If you’re a super strong rider you can get away with up sizing, but I can’t imagine you’re a stronger rider than Forrest!
> Well I guess that’s my question. For this board what would be “standard”. If Forests 5’10 170 and rides a 159 then maybe I’d assume the 162 would be my size. Usually people are riding a size smaller then generally accepted. I.e I’m 6’0 210’and everyone wants to put me on a 162+but my biggest deck is a 159. Riding a 162 BSOD today so I’ll know how I like a 162 and make the decision.


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## MrDavey2Shoes (Mar 5, 2018)

There’s probably a size chart on GNU or EVO

My free ride deck are all 157-159 (aside from my shifted party platter) I’m 170-175 with 8.5 boot. All things being the same you probably want something bigger.


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## BoarderHack89 (Mar 1, 2020)

Lol the good ole 140-230 vs 150-240 chart


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## drblast (Feb 28, 2017)

At some point you just pull the trigger. Length does matter and you can feel a 3cm difference, but that's only if you are comparing boards back to back.

I have a 159 and 162 in the same board, same year, same everything. There is a difference in the way they ride, but they don't make much difference in the way _I_ ride. If I ride the 159 a lot the 162 feels aggressive, and going back to the 159 it feels nimble and fun.

But overall they ride about the same and I couldn't tell you which one I like better overall. The 159 is better for park and tight trees, slightly. The 162 is better for carving and groomers, slightly.

The minor differences in boards are just that. If you find a board you really like and ride it a bunch it will become your favorite. Remember that snowboarding is board, bindings, boots and rider all working together. Learning to ride a particular board well is easier than constantly changing out gear, or obsessing over millimeters.

By all means try a lot of boards if you can, then pick your favorite and ride it to death.


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## BoarderHack89 (Mar 1, 2020)

Sold a deck today and met The guy at the mountain. He had a 162 2017 BSOD so it worked out absolutely perfect. The 162 didn’t feel big at all, just a little “clunky”. Of course I absolutely love Bataleon and my evil twin because it’s so light and the 3bt is very quick. Everything feel slower to me. After riding that compared to my 159 I realized how much I love the Evil Twin, and that for the Mountains I ride 99% of the time I’ll be happier with a 159. GNU customer service said the Billy Goat is Mervins stiffest board and reccomended the 159 4, and i think that’s spot on. I like the shape and will fit for what I need. Even with this I’ll prob be reaching for the evil twin most the time. Not gonna over think it and just pull the trigger


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## MrDavey2Shoes (Mar 5, 2018)

Do it!!!


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## BoarderHack89 (Mar 1, 2020)

Also I finally got a speedometer app. My fastest run on the evil twin was 44 MPH. Yes I would have like a little more stability but tbh I don’t see myself pushing it much further then that 99% of the time. This was carving not just pointing and going.


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## BoarderHack89 (Mar 1, 2020)

drblast said:


> At some point you just pull the trigger. Length does matter and you can feel a 3cm difference, but that's only if you are comparing boards back to back.
> 
> I have a 159 and 162 in the same board, same year, same everything. There is a difference in the way they ride, but they don't make much difference in the way _I_ ride. If I ride the 159 a lot the 162 feels aggressive, and going back to the 159 it feels nimble and fun.
> 
> ...


that’s exactly right. I think being honest with myself ill be much happier with the 159. Def going with the 4 as GNU told me the billy goat is Mervins stifffest deck. lol I’m always tinkering and Can’t just be happy. Recently down sized my boots dramatically because I found out I have EEE width. After some days in them they packed out absolutely perfect where I have slight pressurea against my big toe and the rest fits super snug and perfect. Obviously my first thought was.... these fit too good, maybe I can go down a half size!


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## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

BoarderHack89 said:


> Also I finally got a speedometer app. My fastest run on the evil twin was 44 MPH. Yes I would have like a little more stability but tbh I don’t see myself pushing it much further then that 99% of the time. This was carving not just pointing and going.


Hahaha, 44mph will become like driving only in the right lane...
You might be buying the c3 marketing crew their beers...while ur drinking their koolaid...
Question...have you ever rode a straight up non-wavey fr cambered machine?


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## BoarderHack89 (Mar 1, 2020)

wrathfuldeity said:


> Hahaha, 44mph will become like driving only in the right lane...
> You might be buying the c3 marketing crew their beers...while ur drinking their koolaid...
> Question...have you ever rode a straight up non-wavey fr cambered machine?


Nope mostly all mountain freestyle. Evil Twin, DOA,E jack knife etc . Ya it wasn’t too fast lol but it gets sketchy with your tail flapping like a towel and feeling like your riding a paper towel. Baby steps man , baby steps . That’s why I’m looking at these boards


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## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

BoarderHack89 said:


> Nope mostly all mountain freestyle. Evil Twin, DOA,E jack knife etc . Ya it wasn’t too fast lol but it gets sketchy with your tail flapping like a towel and feeling like your riding a paper towel


And that is why there is a traditional cambered fr machine...ginsu verses a katana


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## BoarderHack89 (Mar 1, 2020)

wrathfuldeity said:


> And that is why there is a traditional cambered fr machine...ginsu verses a katana


Yup, this deck is the beginning of my journey. Also nice to have a new board outside of what I always buy(Twin Freestyle boards)


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## BoarderHack89 (Mar 1, 2020)

Had a 10% off from EVO and the 4 is on clearance so $314.99. Should be here in a week


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## BoarderHack89 (Mar 1, 2020)

On a scale of 1-10 how much of a pussy am I for thinking mid 40s was fast on a park deck


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## ridethecliche (Feb 27, 2019)

I rode the iguchi pro camber today. The lifted contact points do a lot to make the board feel more fun when you're not being aggressive with it and take don't take anything away when you're on it. 

It looks like you made a decision already but you should definitely try to ride one of the arbor boards sometime. The guch is also no where near as stiff as I was led to believe! I've heard the annex is definitely stiff though. 



BoarderHack89 said:


> On a scale of 1-10 how much of a pussy am I for thinking mid 40s was fast on a park deck


Depends on the terrain. The signal disruptor is a park board and it's plenty fast. The rome buckshot scared me too much to even attempt gaining much speed. It wasn't loose or flappy... But the feeling of flex just didn't feel right to me.


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## BoarderHack89 (Mar 1, 2020)

ridethecliche said:


> I rode the iguchi pro camber today. The lifted contact points do a lot to make the board feel more fun when you're not being aggressive with it and take don't take anything away when you're on it.
> 
> It looks like you made a decision already but you should definitely try to ride one of the arbor boards sometime. The guch is also no where near as stiff as I was led to believe! I've heard the annex is definitely stiff though.
> 
> ...


 The annex and Aframe/crosscut really have my interest. I’d love to be able to ride one. Being in NJ tough to find demos. A local big shop has a Last year crosscut 158 on clearance. I’m gonna check back in a few weeks and try and work out a demo. Only one shop demos near me and they mostly have Capita and Bataleon


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## Paxford (Jan 7, 2019)

BoarderHack89 said:


> On a scale of 1-10 how much of a pussy am I for thinking mid 40s was fast on a park deck


1, because it was a park deck.


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## BoarderHack89 (Mar 1, 2020)

Paxford said:


> 1, because it was a park deck.


 I’ll take it


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## ridethecliche (Feb 27, 2019)

BoarderHack89 said:


> The annex and Aframe/crosscut really have my interest. I’d love to be able to ride one. Being in NJ tough to find demos. A local big shop has a Last year crosscut 158 on clearance. I’m gonna check back in a few weeks and try and work out a demo. Only one shop demos near me and they mostly have Capita and Bataleon


Local big shop = Pelican? 
I know them and ski barn stock Arbor. The white horse Pelican had a ton of boards including an Arbor terrapin and Nitro Canon. I was pretty surprised. 

Ever ride blue? I'm sadly in nj as well.


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## BoarderHack89 (Mar 1, 2020)

ridethecliche said:


> Local big shop = Pelican?
> I know them and ski barn stock Arbor. The white horse Pelican had a ton of boards including an Arbor terrapin and Nitro Canon. I was pretty surprised.
> 
> Ever ride blue? I'm sadly in nj as well.


Yup I’m 15 minutes from the Pelican on rt.10, they have the cross cut. Arbor website says some place called Mt. Everest Has a 159 annex may take a ride. Ski barn also stocks Arbor I believe. Out of Bounds is my go to shop as they demo , great guys. I ride Mountain creek as I have a season pass and big snow to progress on my rails and jumps. I’m the bozo 36 year old hiking the rail with my 8 year old. Love to meet up at mountain creek some time when my new deck comes in. The Pelican on 10 has a 161W essential service as well.


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## drblast (Feb 28, 2017)

BoarderHack89 said:


> On a scale of 1-10 how much of a pussy am I for thinking mid 40s was fast on a park deck


40mph is no joke; hit a tree, another person, or fall the wrong way at that speed and it gets serious quickly.

I've owned flexy park boards where if I took them above 40mph and carved quickly in not-perfect snow there was a good chance the nose would hit a bump, dig in and bend upward, forcing an immediate unintentional 180. Even flat basing at 45mph felt like the upper limit. Stopping quickly on a board like that becomes a gamble.

The speed itself rarely scares me, but I carry plenty of momentum and the idea that I might not be able to stop in time to avoid catastrophe makes me really nervous.


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## Phedder (Sep 13, 2014)

drblast said:


> 40mph is no joke; hit a tree, another person, or fall the wrong way at that speed and it gets serious quickly.
> 
> I've owned flexy park boards where if I took them above 40mph and carved quickly in not-perfect snow there was a good chance the nose would hit a bump, dig in and bend upward, forcing an immediate unintentional 180. Even flat basing at 45mph felt like the upper limit. Stopping quickly on a board like that becomes a gamble.
> 
> The speed itself rarely scares me, but I carry plenty of momentum and the idea that I might not be able to stop in time to avoid catastrophe makes me really nervous.


Yep, definitely no joke and the feeling of being in control is crucial to me as well, consequences can be too high if you're not.

One of my worst memories on a board was on a Huck Knife coming in full speed from a wide green and hitting a hard last second carve to turn 90 degrees and get air off the edge into a (usually groomed) steep black run. It was spring, and they definitely hadn't groomed that run in a few days. Frozen spring push mound moguls the whole way down and I was already carrying way too much speed to try and scrub any of it. Just had to point it and absorb everything in front of me without becoming too airborne, if I ate shit I definitely would have been bounced off a few moguls and seriously hurt. I'd done the exact same thing dozens of times when that run was smoother so the speed itself wasn't a problem, but that board in those conditions definitely puckered me up and sketched me out enough to have never come full speed into that run blind again. Honestly very very stupid of me to have done that on a first time down that run for the day.

On a stiffer, damper more freeride type board I'd have been far more comfortable. I really think you're going to have a good eye opener to how differently boards can ride and what potential they can unlock! Welcome to your new, ever enlarging quiver


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## ridethecliche (Feb 27, 2019)

Going fast doesn't hurt. 
Stopping fast does 😁

@BoarderHack89 
I have a pass to blue so go there. Never been to creek but from what I've heard I'm not sure I really want to haha. 
I think I have a few days on a pass to big snow but I'm not sure I really want to go there again given how everything is indoors etc. I thought I was going to get a refund. Need to check in on that. If they don't do that I might have to go back there at some point. I have a beater park ish board I can have fun with there. I've never really done park so figure it's something to try. 
OOB folks seem like good stoked people but not really my shop of choice. I guess I don't really go to stores anymore. I miss Eastern boarder back in MA. 
I bought my last board from a company rep that was selling off of demo boards. I'll probably keep doing that if I can. 

I've also been told that the annex is much stiffer than the guchi pro. Not sure id like it tbh.


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## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

@BoarderHack89 the ES should do you well in your progression. Its all a progression and figuring out/matching the best tool for your terrain, snow and skill level. I would imagine with a park background, you will pick up things very quickly with the ES. Definitely put a traditional cambered FR machine on your list in the future. Back in the day GNU did a traditional camber but with magnetraction...loved that board for learning to be comfortable on ice...it was a sad day when I snapped its tail. I've begged Merv pervs to do it again...and iirc they did a couple of prototypes that they brought to the LBS to demo...but ultimately they went the c3 route which ime is a MEH compared to straight up FR camber.


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## BoarderHack89 (Mar 1, 2020)

It’s on


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## BoarderHack89 (Mar 1, 2020)

Came In today, going to get it waxed up and take it out tomorrow. Love the graphic. That C3 has absolutely no rocker, it’s Straight cAmber tip to tip with no uprise at all. Only things it’s extremely mild mag, Almost not even noticeable. One question, there are no marks for where reference is. The specs say 1 inch set back. Am I right in assuming reference is setting my stance and trying to get exactly an inch more nose then tail measuring from center of binding?


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## BoarderHack89 (Mar 1, 2020)

Reminds me of last years DOA with the sparkle blue...


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## MrDavey2Shoes (Mar 5, 2018)

I usually start at the middle inserts and adjust my stance by making the changes as symmetrical as posssible from there. If I need to narrow by 1 inch I’ll pull the front binding back .5 and the back binding forward .5. No idea if that’s correct.


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## BoarderHack89 (Mar 1, 2020)

That’s exactly what I do for my twins within a reference stance. Then measure from binding to nose and tail to make sure it’s perfectly symmetrical. My main question
Is with setback should I use that same method but have an extra inch of nose


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## BoarderHack89 (Mar 1, 2020)

So I think I’m am idiot. From reading it looks like boards with setback adjust the binding inserts to accommodate. So basically just set up center in the insert packs and that should about right


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## ridethecliche (Feb 27, 2019)

BoarderHack89 said:


> So I think I’m am idiot. From reading it looks like boards with setback adjust the binding inserts to accommodate. So basically just set up center in the insert packs and that should about right


Yeah, center is center.

There's a difference between being centered on the board vs centered in the sidecut. Many boards have a longer nose, but you're still centered in the sidecut at reference even though the nose is longer than the tail.


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## MrDavey2Shoes (Mar 5, 2018)

You’re good dude


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## Paxford (Jan 7, 2019)

MrDavey2Shoes said:


> I usually start at the middle inserts and adjust my stance by making the changes as symmetrical as posssible from there. If I need to narrow by 1 inch I’ll pull the front binding back .5 and the back binding forward .5. No idea if that’s correct.


Sounds correct to me


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## BoarderHack89 (Mar 1, 2020)

So just to clarify cause I’m clearly over thinking this . Has 6 holes each side for bindings, I set up each binding dead center and then made my stance 22.5. Center of Front binding to nose is about 3 inches more then back binding to tail, normal ? Sorry used to just using reference stance then measuring nose and tail to be identical . I guess in my Head 1 inch setback meant I was gonna have an extra inch of nose, just alarmed me to see 3 inches


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## Grunky (Mar 21, 2019)

Reference stance on GNU/Lib Tech using a 4x4 disc: 2nd and fourth inserts from the middle. 
Some companies calculate setback on all the board, some other on the contact points. 
So center your bindings on the insert packs and it will be okay


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## BoarderHack89 (Mar 1, 2020)

Grunky said:


> Reference stance on GNU/Lib Tech using a 4x4 disc: 2nd and fourth inserts from the middle.
> Some companies calculate setback on all the board, some other on the contact points.
> So center your bindings on the insert packs and it will be okay


 Ya just centered them in the insert pack. It’s 2x4 so used middle two holes (3 and 4)


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## WigMar (Mar 17, 2019)

BoarderHack89 said:


> So just to clarify cause I’m clearly over thinking this . Has 6 holes each side for bindings, I set up each binding dead center and then made my stance 22.5. Center of Front binding to nose is about 3 inches more then back binding to tail, normal ? Sorry used to just using reference stance then measuring nose and tail to be identical . I guess in my Head 1 inch setback meant I was gonna have an extra inch of nose, just alarmed me to see 3 inches


Yeah, from my perspective you're thinking too hard. I like feeling new decks out. I rarely measure anything. I just throw bindings on the center holes and see how it feels. Then I play around with dialing things in. If it feels like the nose is way too big and your weight is too far back, change it. I couldn't tell you what my preferred stance is. It's different on different boards, just like my riding is different on different boards.


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## BoarderHack89 (Mar 1, 2020)

WigMar said:


> Yeah, from my perspective you're thinking too hard. I like feeling new decks out. I rarely measure anything. I just throw bindings on the center holes and see how it feels. Then I play around with dialing things in. If it feels like the nose is way too big and your weight is too far back, change it. I couldn't tell you what my preferred stance is. It's different on different boards, just like my riding is different on different boards.


 Awesome thanks, coming from twins I’m super precise in making my board exactly symmetrical. Got it waxed and set up can’t wait for tomorrow.


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## WigMar (Mar 17, 2019)

BoarderHack89 said:


> Got it waxed and set up can’t wait for tomorrow.


What a beautiful feeling.


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## BoarderHack89 (Mar 1, 2020)

WigMar said:


> What a beautiful feeling.


 It’s the little things


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## drblast (Feb 28, 2017)

Setback specs are a really annoying non-standard thing. I don't trust any specs like that and set the board up how it feels right.

Even twins, unless you have a perfectly symmetrical duck stance you are not "centered" if your lead foot has more of an angle. That also can ride great with a cm or two of setback. Pretty sure the reference stance on a Jones Mountain Twin is exactly that - a twin with the bindings moved back 2cm on sidecut and board.


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## BoarderHack89 (Mar 1, 2020)

So I got a chance to take the board on a few runs today and absolutely loved it. It was exactly what I wanted it to be in my head. The flex was perfect, past middle of the road but I Could still butter. I really liked the C3 but it certainly isn’t forgiving, some would say a little catchy. This is camber tip To tip. Once or twice I got lazy and felt it “almost catch” when standing up straight or going flat on a cat track. That being said this thing railed turns and carves. The more you put in the more it put out. The magna-traction looks very mellow but this thing grips great. It really is exactly what it claims to be. An all mountain freestyle bordering on that all mountain free ride. Switch felt oddly very comfortable once you get past the shape. The “centered” stance was quite a bit set back but felt great, which was prob why it was so fun to butter with the extra stiffness. Went to 360 a toe side carve and went a little to backseat into a butter but other then that didn’t feel to back seat, I may leave it as is atleast for another trip.

Funny enough my wife came out for the first time in over 1.5 years after having our child and this certainly isn’t a deck to be messing Around helping people and getting lazy. I rode my evil twin the first half of the day then this the second. I do love 3bt for lighting quick acceleration and speed but on the flip side it’s enjoyable to have a deck you “have to dig in” to engage and it fights back in a good way. I’ve noticed with non Bataleon boards to get max speed you do just have to point it and go a little more,
Assuming it’s because of the less friction tbt has.

Overall absolutely love the board, it is exactly as described, and I will be reaching for this board way more then I had anticipated i would


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## Grunky (Mar 21, 2019)

Glad you found a board that fits your needs! Have fun with it!


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## BoarderHack89 (Mar 1, 2020)

Grunky said:


> Glad you found a board that fits your needs! Have fun with it!


Thanks I will, very happy I took a shot on it. The 159 was perfect also. Decided to run my angles 18/-9 instead of my normal 15/-15 and liked that as well


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