# Couple of questions on form, FS, etc.



## alecdude88 (Dec 13, 2009)

oh the love of park boards on ice. I got a rome artifact and on icy days its impossible to put any form of pressure on your edge if its on ice. also when you first step on a noodle the only thing that feels different is its a bit less stable when your pressing a hard edge and presses will be easier


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## Matuuh (Dec 26, 2008)

You can also spin frontside off toes. Thats how i nailed my first FS 540 found it a lot easier and comfortable and it looks better too.


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## Leo (Nov 24, 2009)

I only have this to contribute to this discussion:

K2 WWW blows on ice.

The only park boards I have ridden that perform well on ice are Magnetraction boards.


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## BliND KiNK (Feb 22, 2010)

good to know lol, thx all


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## rasmasyean (Jan 26, 2008)

Soft boards in general are bad on edges compared to stiff boards given all other things equal. And to a certain extent, you may find you're skidding a lot more with a noddle board and carving a lot more with the stiff board. And when you go "fast", a noddle board becomes pretty unstable.


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## Karasene (Oct 20, 2010)

My first time out on my new set up was on solid ice and it was a nightmare to get use to my first few runs.. I hated my new board that day. Took it out 4 more times that same week and loved it. Give it another go. You'll feel way more comfortable in no time.



MUTAAH... how do you spin frontside off your toes...:dunno: just wondering.


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## Phenom (Dec 15, 2007)

I prefer spinning frontside off my toes for the smaller spins (1s and 3s) since the quick edge change to the heel for the extra kick isn't necessary. This probably stems from me prefering to spin backside, in which case I'm leaving off my toes as well.


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## BliND KiNK (Feb 22, 2010)

I might as well make myself comfortable with jumping off the heels.... I think the problem is when I go FS I always ALWAYS catch my toe edge and have to correct... doing BS all day perfect.. .I can even land in presses and stuff... I think a lot of the problem is that I'm scared to ride switch... because I suck... but when I go BS I can correct to goofy as soon as I land the 1' ...


Speaking of which, yeah I hated my WWW... but today I took it into the pow pow and holy shit... I AM IN LOVE with this board... except it gets dinged up like a motherfucker.... but I've never been cheered from the chairlift so much... from conquering pow to tail pressing natural table tops... .it was pretty bad ass... and I got my carving down with it as well.. it looks like I'm trying to bone the ground I have to lean over so much to get crisp carves XD


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## Mr. Polonia (Apr 5, 2009)

BliND KiNK said:


> So I got my k2 www rocker... woo!...
> 
> The hill was really hardpacked ice today... so please tell me thats why I felt so out of my element on that board.. or does going from a stiff board to a noodle take a while to get used to? any tips?
> 
> Also.. I think with frontside spins... I can't force myself to jump off my heels.... any tips on that.. I've got backside down clear but frontside just throws me off... thanks.!



A soft board will always be terrible on ice as compared to a stiffer one...add the rocker feature and then ur traction is really impaired as compared to a camber. You have to remember that when ur riding on a rocker, your weight is fighting against the boards natural concave shape so therefore your edges have the tendency to lift up and not grip the surface. On a cambered board, its the opposite. Your weight pushes down on the boards convex shape and actually once u start engaging edge to edge, the board flexes to a rocker shape, so with all those forces applied, the edges are pressing harder on the surface and as a result u have more control and stability.


dont get discouraged with the boards performance just yet...just wait til you get more snow on the ground, and once u get the feel of ur new board, you will become more comfortable riding over ice as well


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## Toecutter (Oct 11, 2009)

I don't know if rockers and carving on ice were meant to go together. It's a "wrong tool for the job" thing.


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## Toecutter (Oct 11, 2009)

Snowolf said:


> The best "all around" board in my opinion is a mid stiff camber/rocker combo board. I personally prefer the traditional camber between the feet with early rise rocker tip and tail. My Rossignol Angus with the Amptek has really impressed me with its ability to provide all of the benefit of a rocker in powder and slush, yet has the edge hold on ice due to the camber between the bindings. I do not like the feel of C2 that has the rocker between the feet and camber tip and tail. It feels less agile on ice to me.
> 
> Still, when it gets bullet proof or crud with death cookies, I break out my Atomic Radon which is as stiff as a railroad tie and has razor sharp edges with only a .5 bevel. It will catch an edge and slam you the second you get sloppy with it, but the bitch will carve a turn on the hardest, blue ice there is. Rockers are great for many things but I don`t see conventional camber ever being fully replaced.


Are you liking the Magne-traction on the Angus? I've been eyeing up a Rossignol Experience and I've read some comments that the MT is too "catchy."

And hows the damping in our heavy, wet crud?


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## Karasene (Oct 20, 2010)

Toecutter said:


> Are you liking the Magne-traction on the Angus? I've been eyeing up a Rossignol Experience and I've read some comments that the MT is too "catchy."


Another reason why I HATED my board the first day... rode on as wolf said "bullet proof" ice and crud night rding on a new set up with magna traction. my edges kicked the shit out of me a few times. It was 10x more catchy. But as soon as I got the feel for it I was like "holy shit this thing works!" it suddenly felt like my snowboard had 4 wheel drive. Its awesome. If you ride ice its a must in my opinion.


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## Toecutter (Oct 11, 2009)

Karasene said:


> Another reason why I HATED my board the first day... rode on as wolf said "bullet proof" ice and crud night rding on a new set up with magna traction. my edges kicked the shit out of me a few times. It was 10x more catchy. But as soon as I got the feel for it I was like "holy shit this thing works!" it suddenly felt like my snowboard had 4 wheel drive. Its awesome. If you ride ice its a must in my opinion.


Interesting. The Jones Flagship version (similar to the Rossi Exp.) uses a "mellow magne-traction," which sounds like a milder construct designed intentionally to decrease the catchiness. I don't ride ice very often but I can see how it would be useful.


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## rasmasyean (Jan 26, 2008)

Toecutter said:


> Are you liking the Magne-traction on the Angus? I've been eyeing up a Rossignol Experience and I've read some comments that the MT is too "catchy."
> 
> And hows the damping in our heavy, wet crud?


Are those RC boards that have the MTX that are "catchy"? Because when I heard of that I was thinking it may (or also) have to do with the RC. Becauce RC initiates into turns faster so if you're not used to it, you'd be expecting a "delay", but then it "hooks" you. I found this is prevalent when doing cross under turns in packed.

But also, many different RC shapes are out there now so it would depend on the board I guess.

Maybe what you can do is detune the tip and tail extending a little past the first seration in the MTX board. This way the "second seration" is the one that would be "hookey" if anything and by that time you would have been deeper into your turn. Pretty much similar to how a non-MTX detuned edge would behave.

But if you implement this tune, of course it might not be as overall grippy on ice. Just like with a regular camber board, you would loose that bite at the curved tip-to-sidecut-transition. Though with MTX, you would theoretically have 5 more (instead of 7) so it's not that big of a tradeoff. And with a BTX, the board should take advantage of this because as they say "it rides more between the bindings than out towards the ends like camber"....hence the "skateboard feel" (well not exactly, imo, but I guess more skateboardy than camber a bit). 

But the overall effect of RC anyway is that it "spins" more easily so whether on ice or powder, you will have to get used to the different fore-aft balance because it just wants to spin. Which is also why it's easier for beginners because it "helps" initiate turns. With that said, on steep ice, you need to be more aware of edging more towards the middle than rely on the tip and tail of a cambered board holding your weight...hence it will "feel shorter".

Personally, I found that MTX grips real well on ice and at slower speeds, you can carve on it like an ice skate pretty easily. But on hard pack carving, you feel the serations vibrating your board, thought it still holds well.


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## Toecutter (Oct 11, 2009)

Snowolf said:


> The Angus does not have magnatraction. It is really a very nice 50/50 split between a conventional camber board and a rocker. The edge hold comes from the traditional camber between the bindings and the float and forgiveness of nearly catch free riding comes from the rocker at tip and tail.
> 
> The Angus is a great board for the PNW! It is a medium stiff flex both torsionally and longitudinally and has really good medium to high dampening. The thing excells in our wet, sticky, heavy mashed taters! It does lack compared to a traditional camber on ice though but the edge forgiveness makes it a decent ride once you get used the fact that is a bit more pivot to it at speed. You have to get pretty sloppy to catch an edge even on ice.


Cool, thanks.


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## Leo (Nov 24, 2009)

Simple solution to MTX being "too catchy." Detune your edges. You still get the 7 contact points so you won't lose the ice performance while gaining less catchiness.


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## slyder (Jan 18, 2010)

not usre I can add great detail, but I love how my LibTech with Magnatraction handles in icey conditions.
Here in the Midwest lots of manmade snow, tons of traffic and some warm days ,things can get hard and icey fast. I am able to dig right in and I feel more comfortable than my order conventional board in these conditions.


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## BliND KiNK (Feb 22, 2010)

just to keep myself dedicated to one thread.. and it sort of applies... so 


today I went to the park, (yesterday MLK day, I work overnight) and hit my first few boxes... and actually rode away without falling once... no catches or anything... but I assume my biggest question ( i just did 50/50's I guess? ) when doing a boardslide is my edge on my k2 www rocker going to catch that box? because if it is I'm going to use my helmet when I try it...

Also, I knocked a skier on his ass and got him kicked off the hill today... he kept fucking stabbing my board with his poles... AND FUCKING LAUGHING ABOUT IT... WTF:dunno:

So now I have a bunch of indentations next to my binding and that guy just gets a hit to his pride for the fact that he pretty much took his wife down with him and almost the rest of his group... So...FUCK!!! that pissed me off so much. I would have beat the shit out of him with his ski but that would have definitely landed me without a hill like that douche.


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## slyder (Jan 18, 2010)

I haven't had the courage to boardslide yet. I did successfully do many frontside boardslides which are done with rotation and back to a 50/50 without catching an edge. I think you would be more prone to catch on a rail rather than a box but no expert here.

I say yes to the helmet. One your trying totally new tricks with material that WILL hurt if you hit it. Two I always were a helmet, you don't mean to get slammed thats why it's an accident.

Sorry to hear about your board, I would have said something after the 1st one. You are able to tell if it was not purposely done or an accident. After the 2nd intentional tap of the pole I would have been much more aggressive in my handling of it verbally. I have yet to run across anyone one like this but I see from the posts here they are out there, why, no idea. Why be a ass to a total stanger just because he's on a snowboard, makes no sense.....


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## pencap75 (Dec 10, 2008)

Nitro subpop/subzero has excellent ice edge hold, in my opinion. Which is surprising for such a soft board.



Leo said:


> I only have this to contribute to this discussion:
> 
> K2 WWW blows on ice.
> 
> The only park boards I have ridden that perform well on ice are Magnetraction boards.


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