# Moving to Double BOA - 2 questions



## EastCoastChris (Feb 24, 2013)

Ok, I'm a little unsure about this... I was looking for some new boots. I've always used traditional lacing because I started riding in the early 90s before the BOA thing. I've borrowed boots, rented boots, demo'd boots...But I've always, always, always had heel lift problems. No matter what boots I ride, I get heel lift. I've been wearing boots 1/2 too small trying to prevent heel lift, and I STILL get it, but with added numbness as well. 

So with no on-hill experience whatsoever I pulled the trigger on a pair of double BOA boots online. The K2 Contour (basically the women's version of the Maysis.) They are supposed to be good for preventing heel lift. They have BOA lacing for both the outer and the lining.

But I got a couple questions about the whole BOA thing. There is one BOA wheel for the entire outer lacing. How do you adjust the top or bottom of the boot independently (or can you not do that?) In a perfect world these boots will actually fit on the hill and I won't need to adjust/tighten around the ankle while trying desperately to keep the bottom looser and blood in my toes. But how is this supposed to work? I can't figure this out.

Also, by the time I really pack 'em out, I won't be able to return them. I'm a little worried about the cables causing issues when they do pack out, like digging into the boot or my foot. Does the BOA lacing become painful over time, or are they pretty reliably comfy long term? 


*NOTE* Yes, I bought a pair of boots online site unseen. I know, I know. I'm trying to save some money! In NYC, you are paying MSRP even on past season's gear in the brick and mortar store. So even with return shipping, I'm still saving crazy cash. While a pro bootfitting would be preferable, it prolly ain't happening.


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## Toomeyct (Apr 4, 2012)

Yeah if those boots do just have one boa dial for the outer lacing then you can't adjust both zones. It just tightens the entire boot all at once. I had a pair of Ride Jackson Boa's like this. They did not work for me. I like to keep my foot area pretty loose and my ankle pretty tight. So to get the ankle as tight as I liked it in the Ride, I had to crank them down which pretty much murdered my foot. I probably rode 10 or so days in them before moving to a pair of Salomon Synapse Double Boa's which have a dial for the foot and the ankle separately. This let me keep the foot loose and the ankle tight. 

I wouldn't give up on them just yet as they may fit you perfectly but know that if you like to keep your ankle tight and your foot loose, this may not work out.


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## dcrides (Jan 21, 2013)

I have the Maysis and they are very comfortable and warm.
The first few days, I overtightened the inner boa to reduce heel lift, which led to some numbness for about a week, so now I'm careful about not overdoing it.
Due to my narrow heels, I had to add foam J-bars to the liner which helped the heel lift a lot and I don't need to tighten the inner boa as much. 
I also loosen the outer boa before I get on the chair, as I like to ride with the outer boa tight.


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## EastCoastChris (Feb 24, 2013)

Ahhhhh. Ok. I see what the deal is. "Double BOA" means inner and out BOAs, rather than top/bottom BOA. 

Makes sense, I can ride with the inner pretty tight for the ankle and other somewhat looser the toe box. That seems to work in the living room. But until you are carving ice its hard to know how boots will ride. 

Easy and quick loosening of the outer for lift rides was one of the biggest reasons I jumped on the BOA actually.


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## Toomeyct (Apr 4, 2012)

EastCoastChris said:


> Ahhhhh. Ok. I see what the deal is. "Double BOA" means inner and out BOAs, rather than top/bottom BOA.
> 
> Makes sense, I can ride with the inner pretty tight for the ankle and other somewhat looser the toe box. That seems to work in the living room. But until you are carving ice its hard to know how boots will ride.
> 
> Easy and quick loosening of the outer for lift rides was one of the biggest reasons I jumped on the BOA actually.


Well I believe that is true for this boot. On most boots I have seen "Double BOA" means a dial for the ankle and a dial for the foot. My boots (Salomon Synapse) are like this.


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## dcrides (Jan 21, 2013)

At :30 you will see a cut away of the inner boa in action.

K2 Maysis Boa Snowboard Boots 2013 - YouTube


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## zk0ot (Nov 9, 2009)

Boa focus usually specified that it was an upper and lower. Not sure if they still follow that rule.


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## Deacon (Mar 2, 2013)

What the double boa does is going to depend on the brand. The K2 Contour is a Boa Conda double boa... Same as my Maysis. Definitely work on adjusting the position of the conda piece so it's in the right spot for your foot. You should be able to get great heel hold without cranking the crap out of it. I know I was anyway, but the first time I tried to wear it around the house I had it in the wrong spot and it hurt almost right away, and my foot started falling asleep within a couple minutes. It's super adjustable though. :thumbsup:


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## ETM (Aug 11, 2009)

Put some soft foam on the top of your foot/front ankle area. . This will stop your heel lift as the re is nowhere for it to go.
Works for me.


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## EastCoastChris (Feb 24, 2013)

Ahhhh rock on. I get it. Next year I will have to pick up some Triple Boas...which K2 totally has for guys but not for ladies. 

I was wearing a women's 7.5 when my street size is an 8. So I can probably wear a men's 7 unless they are way wider than women's boots. 

I'm just thrilled to be wearing my actual size. The half size too small toe scrunching business was not good. We'll see if its as good on the hill in about 30 days!

OMG I just realized I can probably squeeze my insoles in these boots! Oh joy. My 1/2 too small boots wouldn't take the insole without my feet turning blue. I need to pick up another pair.


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## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

ECC look at this sticky and the pics. I have 32 focus boas...love them... and have figured out a few things to prevent heel lift with bits of self-adhesive foam...even when they get packed out. Of course ymmv

http://www.snowboardingforum.com/boots/51066-boots-faq-etc.html


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## tanscrazydaisy (Mar 11, 2013)

NYC has a great bootfitter.... ain't cheap though.

www.usorthorticcenter.com


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## jml22 (Apr 10, 2012)

Boas are a bit different, you can do them up too tight and cause some major pain halfway down a run. It usually takes me a full run to tweak it for the rest of the day. I like them, there's just that learning curve to getting them dialed in perfectly.


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## killclimbz (Aug 10, 2007)

The BOA liners are supposed to be pretty great for snugging up, so you may have your ankle lift problem solved there. 

You can effect how tight zones get on with the single BOA by how you tweak your foot. I believe leaning forward, gets the lower zones tighter while obviously the upper zone will not be as tight. Yoga for boots. I use BOA boots that do the Upper/Lower but not the liner. Try 'em when you get them. If you don't like how they work, I'd just send them back and get the triple BOA model or go with something else. I think there are some boots out there that just have the BOA liner now. Which from what I've seen is probably the best system to cinch a liner up that is out there.

I might be confusing some ski boot models too though. Saw so god damn many boots at SIA that I only remember a few in particular.


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## freshy (Nov 18, 2009)

BOA's won't eliminate heel lift. Even with my brand new DC Status boots I could lift my heel if I try to in one boot but not the other. So it's more about the construction and shape of the boot and the shape of your heel. J hooks are what you want to eliminate heel lift. Or you could use foam tape to achieve the same thing. Just pull out your liner and put some foam where you think you need it to lock your heel down on the outside of the liner. The extra pressure from that point with any luck will be enough to lock you in.

oops just noticed wrath's post where I learned how to do that...Just follow his guide.


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## BruceWard (Dec 8, 2010)

*Heat Mold Em*

Before you ride in them, take them to your local store and have them heat mold them to your foot. Usually if they sell K2 gear, they'll do it for free or cheap - you need to do it before you ride as if you do it after, your feet sweat will funk up the store - not cool ha ha. 

I have the K2 Maysis Double and had the Raider single before. FYI, on my K2 Maysis model, there is no pad protector for the wire - which means if you ride a lot and use your free foot to hold your board, eventually the edges will cut against the boa wire. While I never had a wire break, by the end of the season the wires did get frayed. K2 repaired mine this year for free. Best idea is to create some strap to protect them...

Also, always always always bring your old spare boots on a long trip. My Raider Boa tightener broke one day and it was a day ending affair. Thus I always try and bring both boots with me just in case. Paranoid but whatever.


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## hktrdr (Apr 3, 2012)

freshy said:


> *BOA's won't eliminate heel lift.* Even with my brand new DC Status boots I could lift my heel if I try to in one boot but not the other. So it's more about the construction and shape of the boot and the shape of your heel. J hooks are what you want to eliminate heel lift. Or you could use foam tape to achieve the same thing. Just pull out your liner and put some foam where you think you need it to lock your heel down on the outside of the liner. The extra pressure from that point with any luck will be enough to lock you in.
> 
> oops just noticed wrath's post where I learned how to do that...Just follow his guide.


Not really. You are talking about a different double Boa configuration: The Status had the Boa for upper and lower zones, but both for the shell - which does not directly address heel lift. In OP's case the second Boa is internal, which actually does a pretty good job of addressing heel lift.


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## hktrdr (Apr 3, 2012)

BruceWard said:


> Before you ride in them, take them to your local store and have them heat mold them to your foot. Usually if they sell K2 gear, they'll do it for free or cheap - you need to do it before you ride as if you do it after, your feet sweat will funk up the store - not cool ha ha.
> 
> I have the K2 Maysis Double and had the Raider single before. FYI, on my K2 Maysis model, there is no pad protector for the wire - which means if you ride a lot and use your free foot to hold your board, eventually the edges will cut against the boa wire. While I never had a wire break, by the end of the season the wires did get frayed. K2 repaired mine this year for free. Best idea is to create some strap to protect them...
> 
> Also, always always always bring your old spare boots on a long trip. My Raider Boa tightener broke one day and it was a day ending affair. Thus I always try and bring both boots with me just in case. Paranoid but whatever.


Best idea is actually not to rest your board on the instep of your boot. In fact, supporting your board that way will cut through laces even faster than through Boa cables.


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## BruceWard (Dec 8, 2010)

*Best Foot Rest*

True on not resting on my foot; yet I cringe to put my sharp edges on the foot rests and by mid day start cramping if I don't put em somewhere...old fart type :dunno:

Your rec?


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## hktrdr (Apr 3, 2012)

BruceWard said:


> True on not resting on my foot; yet I cringe to put my sharp edges on the foot rests and by mid day start cramping if I don't put em somewhere...old fart type :dunno:
> 
> Your rec?


Hook the toe of your boot under the heel cup of the binding. Problem solved.


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## freshy (Nov 18, 2009)

hktrdr said:


> Not really. You are talking about a different double Boa configuration: The Status had the Boa for upper and lower zones, but both for the shell - which does not directly address heel lift. In OP's case the second Boa is internal, which actually does a pretty good job of addressing heel lift.


Oh I never knew. Well then nevermind.


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## Deacon (Mar 2, 2013)

hktrdr said:


> Hook the toe of your boot under the heel cup of the binding. Problem solved.


This. Works perfect. :thumbsup:


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## MikeIn248 (Dec 6, 2011)

My kid and I both have BOA boots from Flow. I called them up to ask about buying spare cables, and they just sent me some for free. (You had to know the model name, because the wire lengths vary.) So if anyone's worried about cables snapping, you can get spares from manufacturers.

My sister owns a horse. One time I happened to ask something or other about whether she uses horse shoes or not (you know, those metal things). She said no, but the horse had these really cool boots for riding on certain surfaces. The boots had this clever system where you wound a knob to tighten some internal wires, then pressed in when you wanted to release it. Who would've thought that they make BOA boots for horses! (She was equally impressed that they make BOA boots for snowboarding.)

Boa® Horse Boot | Advanced Hoof Protection | EasyCare Inc


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## EastCoastChris (Feb 24, 2013)

So I've been running around in these for a while (not to the store and stuff, just trying to break them in.)

I like many people have this really goofy issue where my left foot is bigger than the right. Some boots tend to exacerbate this more than others. In my Keens for example its pretty pronounced. Not sure why. It's definitely noticeable in this boot too. So the size of these is perfect for my left foot. I can wiggle my toes by they are touching the edge of the toe box. The right side probably could have used the 7.5 instead of 8 but I don't think they are sold that way. LOL

So I have no heel lift on my left. My right foot is still getting the slightest bit of heel lift but the way these BOAs are built, I can't really tighten them around the ankle without cranking the top of my foot off too. I am going to try the soft foam hack and see if that works. 

Either way I ride regular so its not the biggest issue. Eliminating heel lift in my left foot will be huge if they keep riding the way they fit in the living room. 

This BOA thimg is kind of complicated too. I'm not having a ton of faith in the rugged-ness of these knobs right now. My old-school lace boots will probably have to come as a backup.


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## Deacon (Mar 2, 2013)

My left foot is easily a half size bigger, and I sized to my right. I rode my Maysis for the first time last Sunday, and at the start of the day I had some discomfort at the end of my left big toe, but I had no problem with the boa's once I got the conda located properly. By the end of a couple hours my toe either felt better or numb, not sure but it didn't hurt. I brought last seasons boots too, just in case. :laugh: I crashed a lot and I didn't have a boa pop loose or any trouble with them.


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## Ocho (Mar 13, 2011)

MikeIn248 said:


> My sister owns a horse. One time I happened to ask something or other about whether she uses horse shoes or not (you know, those metal things). She said no, but the horse had these really cool boots for riding on certain surfaces. The boots had this clever system where you wound a knob to tighten some internal wires, then pressed in when you wanted to release it. Who would've thought that they make BOA boots for horses! (She was equally impressed that they make BOA boots for snowboarding.)
> 
> Boa® Horse Boot | Advanced Hoof Protection | EasyCare Inc


Yes, and there's also a tall boot (for the rider) using BOA Veredus They're around $900 msrp.


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## Ocho (Mar 13, 2011)

EastCoastChris said:


> So I've been running around in these for a while (not to the store and stuff, just trying to break them in.)
> 
> I like many people have this really goofy issue where my left foot is bigger than the right. Some boots tend to exacerbate this more than others. In my Keens for example its pretty pronounced. Not sure why. It's definitely noticeable in this boot too. So the size of these is perfect for my left foot. I can wiggle my toes by they are touching the edge of the toe box. The right side probably could have used the 7.5 instead of 8 but I don't think they are sold that way. LOL
> 
> ...


I recall seeing here someone post a solution to the same issue with smaller foot...could have been adding a foam piece or something. Might want to try a search on it. 

Or perhaps check wrath's sticky on boot mods.


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## EastCoastChris (Feb 24, 2013)

Yeah the soft foam was suggested above. Def worth a try - better than finding someone with the exact opposite foot sizing and trading boots. Lol. 

Good to know the knobs hold up better than I think they will!

I know it will take a couple tries to find the right tightness on hil - but I do dig the speed and simplicity of the BOA. Glad I gave it another go after the one disastrous BOA attempt I had a rental counter


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