# Carving boards -- can someone explain...



## SushiLover (Sep 17, 2020)

Having camber, long effective edge, medium stiff with some torsional flex between the feet. As far as the sidecut radius goes, I found boards with 8 m radius and up are better for long drawn out arcs and have better flow in the turns.


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## drblast (Feb 28, 2017)

It really depends on your riding style, terrain, and personal preferences. I've found the only rules for me are I like the board to be on the stiffer end and mostly camber.

First choice is duck vs. +/+, with double positive making getting low and having proper body position easier. But if you aspire to be Ryan Knapton duck can work.

Camber and long effective edge makes this easier, so does setback and taper. But a little goes a long way. I love carving on my twins with 2-4cm of setback. That feels great.

If you have room (wide uncrowded groomers) riding a much longer board than normal is amazing for carving. Check out the hardboot GS boards and see how they're designed. There's a reason they look like that. You can try to emulate that style to a lesser extent in soft boots with very aggressive double positive angles and a long board.

Or check it Kijima's carving thread and look at the short/fat board approach. The Korua yearning for turning video series is more that very dynamic style instead of long drawn out carves.

Finally, it's tempting to think an 8m sidecut will make 8m circles in the snow but boards don't ride like that. The sidecut has more to do with how far the center of the board will flex once you get up on edge before it hits the ground. The deeper the sidecut, the more room it has to flex, and the tighter turn you'll make, but board flex and camber profile comes into play a lot here too. The sidecut interacts with those things to determine how a board rides.

It's tempting to go after a certain set of specs but really only riding boards will tell you what you like.


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## ZeMax (Feb 21, 2014)

Nidecker tracer and K2 simple pleasure are 2 great daily driver/ carving boards.

Magnatraction helps you when you are skidding, if you are carving keep them edges sharp instead !


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## garikgarik (Dec 15, 2011)

while carving you put the board on edge and load the board at the same time. your goal is to ride with an optimal angle and optimal pressure.
during the turn both parameters change, and different parts of the board experience different load. usually nose works in the beginning of the turn, at this stage the forces are minimal, then, while you accelerate through the turn, the pressure rises and rider uses mid board and the tail section to finish the arc. It is like you start your turn on one board and finish on another. the change is quite linear. carvers move actively above the board not every movement should be passed into the board.
Camber - you need consistent and predictable board behaviour and some force to jump into the next turn, rockered boards change their behaviour during the turn, camber works better.
Flex - you need a softer nose and stiffer tail, torsional stiffness should increase towards the tail and be present in the middle, otherwise the board would twist and you’ll loose the edge angle, unless you re super aware of your balance and weight distribution, during the whole weighting, angulation, inclination, rotation routine
Radius - smaller radius means smaller turns, better skills require larger radius, proper carving wether race or eur is extremely dizzy on boards with small radius.
Edge tech - carver needs straight edge and maximum contact, i.e. no edge tech other than sharp edge.
Titanal - less vibrations.
Carbon - torsional stiffness, vibrations
Width - no overhang


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## WigMar (Mar 17, 2019)

Most if not all of my seven board quiver are carving boards. They're all different from each other. There's twins, pintails, and swallowtails from 150 up to 166. Conditions and my mood dictate which I grab on any given day. Icy days get the longer effective edges while softer days get shorter boards.

All of these boards are camber or flat profiles without magnetraction of any kind. I like enough torsional flex to bend the board into different turn shapes as well. 

Do you ride duck stance or ++? I prefer ++ for carving by a large margin. The width of the board kinda dictates where I put my toes and heels for power distribution and boot-out reduction. My angles get steeper as my boards get longer and narrower. I've been riding my Pentaquark at angles up to 51,39, but relax that quite a bit on my wider boards.


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## garikgarik (Dec 15, 2011)

carving is a skill and you can carve on any board. carving on soft cambered twins is beneficial for the balance, you can’t carve fast and should constantly adjust your balance and pressure
carving on stiff boards with large radius allows you to focus on a few critically important movements, and you have to ride fast.
easiest boards to start carving in duck stance are short fats with slightly directional flex and small radius, however if you are good you might outgrow it pretty fast, in a couple of days.


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## MrDavey2Shoes (Mar 5, 2018)

Almost all boards are carving boards. I how you’re supposed to ride a snowboard. Most people just don’t carve. Camber dominant twin is way to go for a daily, assuming you ride the entire mountain. I don’t view Koruas/Nidedkers or anything in that vein as a “daily”. Unless all you do is carve something more traditional is a better bet. My choice is a Tom Sims Pro. However it’s not very snappy and therefore boring in the park/side hits. So I’ll likely look to replace it in a season or two.


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## MrDavey2Shoes (Mar 5, 2018)

@garikgarik damnit, beat me by literal seconds.


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## garikgarik (Dec 15, 2011)

MrDavey2Shoes said:


> @garikgarik damnit, beat me by literal seconds.


Yep, “carving boards” is a construct mostly. Any snowboard with sidecut can carve. 
people tend to forget that so called carving boards i.e. progressively stiff longitudinally, stiff torsionally, with a large(over 10metres) sidecut radius are designed for very particular style of riding, and are demanding.
However camber and slightly directional flex do help. Most Koruas and Nideckers are usual freeride boards, except for bullet train which is a carving snowboard.


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## adgu (Oct 2, 2019)

@MrDavey2Shoes @garikgarik 

Dear all, I am very much pleased to see your comments, which I found very helpful for me. I have finished my third season in my snowboarding life. This year, I have been in mountains total 15 days. But in the third day, my left ankle was sprained to outside and I was suffering from ankle pain all other days. Anyway.

Here is my video with soft board, soft boots and soft binding. the waist size of this full camber board is 25cm. All I tried to get more lying on my heelside while carving. Actually I feel wonderful until I watched this video. When I see this, I am really disappointed  





Greetings from Istanbul.


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## MrDavey2Shoes (Mar 5, 2018)

Looking good so far! Some tips, try not to bend at the waist. Also, keep your weight on the front foot longer and stay on the side cut. It looks like you might be rushing the turns a little by pushing your back foot around too soon.


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## adgu (Oct 2, 2019)

MrDavey2Shoes said:


> Looking good so far! Some tips, try not to bend at the waist. Also, keep your weight on the front foot longer and stay on the side cut. It looks like you might be rushing the turns a little by pushing your back foot around too soon.


Thanks for advice. 

toe side : I can stay on the side cut easily. even make a complete circle pushing on my front foot. however,
heel side : I cannot. eventhough the heelside edge is sharper then toeside, I cannot draw that smooth line on the ground. the board is chattered anyway. I think this is something about my skills and I have to practice more.



MrDavey2Shoes said:


> try not to bend at the waist.


I ll keep in mind for the next season.


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## garikgarik (Dec 15, 2011)

i’d change the boots and bindings to stiffer ones, it adds control and protects ankles, if the fit is correct. i don’t think your current board has exhausted its potential and you’d benefit from riding stiffer and larger board, it might be counterproductive. however if you feel like getting a new board, i’d look at something like salomon dancehaul or niseko pleasures. Drive your knees into the snow on the toe edge, on the heel edge lean with your upper body over the heel edge inside the turn, before bending in the waist, on the toe edge bend back from the snow in your waist and shoulders, don’t try to reach the snow with your arm.


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## garikgarik (Dec 15, 2011)

On the heel edge it is kinda important to set the turn early in the first part of the arc. On the video rider moves its leading heap forward but the torso is over the tail of the board








Part of the body weight is outside of the turn - shoulders and head over the toe edge, part of the weight over the heel edge. Rider is looking down the slope, looking inside the turn helps better.
Lean into the turn with your upper body first, pull your toes up, then bend in the waist, look inside the turn, shift the weight on to your back leg during the turn


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## adgu (Oct 2, 2019)

garikgarik said:


> i’d change the boots and bindings to stiffer ones, it adds control and protects ankles, if the fit is correct. i don’t think your current board has exhausted its potential and you’d benefit from riding stiffer and larger board, it might be counterproductive. however if you feel like getting a new board, i’d look at something like salomon dancehaul or niseko pleasures. Drive your knees into the snow on the toe edge, on the heel edge lean with your upper body over the heel edge inside the turn, before bending in the waist, on the toe edge bend back from the snow in your waist and shoulders, don’t try to reach the snow with your arm.


 Oh no, I see this video very late at the end of the season  now, I have to wait for next season to make some practice. but, I feel that is something wrong in my riding.. This is the mistakes I exactly made whole this season. Thanks dudes, I read every one of your comments word by word... You will see better videos here next season.


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## garikgarik (Dec 15, 2011)

adgu said:


> Oh no, I see this video very late at the end of the season  now, I have to wait for next season to make some practice. but, I feel that is something wrong in my riding.. This is the mistakes I exactly made whole this season. Thanks dudes, I read every one of your comments word by word... You will see better videos here next season.


I think you’ve made hell of progress for couple of seasons of riding. Slight changes in the technic may actually help to keep your ankles safe.


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## adgu (Oct 2, 2019)

garikgarik said:


> I think you’ve made hell of progress for couple of seasons of riding. Slight changes in the technic may actually help to keep your ankles safe.


Thanks maan, your comments was very helpful. I save them all for the next season to progress in technical and better way. Carving is so much fun. I don't express my feeling at the beginning of this season when I stand on edges. I really thank you very much for your above comments which I cannot correct it by myself.


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## garikgarik (Dec 15, 2011)

adgu said:


> Thanks maan, your comments was very helpful. I save them all for the next season to progress in technical and better way. Carving is so much fun. I don't express my feeling at the beginning of this season when I stand on edges. I really thank you very much for your above comments which I cannot correct it by myself.


No worries, mate)


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## deagol (Mar 26, 2014)

WigMar said:


> ...
> 
> All of these boards are camber or flat profiles *without magnetraction of any kind*. I like enough torsional flex to bend the board into different turn shapes as well.


I've never tried magnatraction, but have heard this many times from those who have. I guess the whole feel of magnatraction must be pretty unique??


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## kieloa (Sep 20, 2019)

Great tips from everyone! I would spend some money in riding lessons if I was you, then maby a new board.


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## JDA (Feb 10, 2016)

I currently have seven boards in my quiver and spend a lot of time just carving.
My favorites for carving in no particular order are

K2 Simple Pleasures
Amplid Pillowtalk
Capita Outerspace Living
Endeavor Archetype


The other boards are:
Korua Dart
K2 Manifest
Burton Skipjack Surf (need to try this again as I don't ride it often)


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## adgu (Oct 2, 2019)

kieloa said:


> Great tips from everyone! I would spend some money in riding lessons if I was you, then maby a new board.


Thanks Kieloa, I also believe the power of education, too. However, I cannot see anybody who ride carving perfectly in Turkey yet. Or, no instructor for advanced carving techniques. I have been touch with couple of friends, who are in the same position with me. We are all trying to improve our skills from other sources but instructors.

3 years ago, when I just decided to go for snowboarding, I took 1 hour lesson from a licensed instructor. Honestly, I learnt almost nothing from him. Just understand the snowboard equipments, how to take on, take off and how to walk while one foot is tied, etc. But same day night, I searched a lot of "how to" videos to understand. Thanks to "snowboard addiction" youtube channel and some others, which I owe my basic techniques to. 

I think learning from couple of friends, watching some educational videos and spending some time at mountain for a little bit practice will be more powerful than having one hour stupid lesson. I can easily confess that above comments works better than that lessons. 

Please do not misunderstand my above explanation.. Education is must. but It must be from right person.. and I cannot find the right person yet.

I really want to ride with you guys in your resort in some time.. or you may visit Turkey and we may ride together here.


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## Rip154 (Sep 23, 2017)

How far from Istanbul do you go to snowboard?


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## adgu (Oct 2, 2019)

Rip154 said:


> How far from Istanbul do you go to snowboard?


The closest resort is "Kartepe Ski Resort" 90mins by drive. But it is too small and not managed well. Second one is "Uludag Ski Resort" which takes around 3hours by drive. This is not bad. It is very big but the piste is not quality enough. The third one is "Kartalkaya Ski Resort" where has two side. both side is better than above two.

There are may be 15-20 ski resort in different locations.. But we mostly prefer the following ones which are the best in Turkey;
Sarikamis Ski Resort
Erciyes Ski Resort
Palandoken Ski Resort


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## 165586 (May 9, 2018)

adgu said:


> @MrDavey2Shoes @garikgarik
> 
> Dear all, I am very much pleased to see your comments, which I found very helpful for me. I have finished my third season in my snowboarding life. This year, I have been in mountains total 15 days. But in the third day, my left ankle was sprained to outside and I was suffering from ankle pain all other days. Anyway.
> 
> ...


Hey man, OP here. WTF are doing hijacking my thread?!? If you want feedback, post your own thread.


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## adgu (Oct 2, 2019)

zirkel said:


> Hey man, OP here. WTF are doing hijacking my thread?!? If you want feedback, post your own thread.


hijacking? I had no such an intention like that. If I did something out of forum rules, just show me so that I will apologize from every one of you. My post was also related to carving boards because I m trying to carve with a soft board. 

I don't understand why you are bothered about this.


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## kimchijajonshim (Aug 19, 2007)

zirkel said:


> Some boards that I'm looking at:
> 
> Korua Cafe Racer
> Nidecker Tracer
> ...


I briefly owned a Cafe Racer 164 and own a United Shapes Orbit 157. I like both, but very different boards.

Cafe Racer was mellow, relatively little camber and relaxed flex. It felt very neutral turn to turn, no real natural "snap". You could generate snap with your body movements, but it waited for rider input. I liked it, I would have kept it if it wasn't so wide... 278 mm with size 10 US boots was a load in firm conditions. I replaced it with a Korua Stealth 163, which is also pretty wide (269 mm) but much more manageable (and also has a lot more snap, most likely due to being much more heavily cambered through the camber zone).

Orbit ATTACKS. Not that much camber, but stiff powerful flex. My go-to when I need to handle gnarlier lines and don't expect new snow. You can an incredible amount of effective edge for its size, the 157 rides more like a 164. It's not a "short-fat" either, they just lop off a bunch of nose kick (so not ideal for pow).

Broadly, anything can carve unless you have reverse sidecut. My solid board quiver:


US Orbit 157
Korua Stealth 163
US Cadet 162
Dupraz D1 6'
Moss Swallow 162


All of them can carve, but excel at different things and require different riding styles and inputs. 

Stealth is pretty sweet hybrid snowsurf / all-mountain deck. Little bit rear-foot driven, but not nearly as much so as a Moss or a Gentemstick. Pops turn to turn reallly well, feels great up on edge. Struggles a little bit in firmer snow due to the width, but I can make it work. Great all-around daily driver for carving and pow that can still handle some gnarlier freeride lines. I can ride it either + / + or duck.

Orbit discussed above.

The Cadet is traditional all-mountain deck with a bit of Japanese snowsurf influence. Fun at slower speed and medium radius carves. Has a relatively relaxed medium flex, very short effective edge (rides more like a 158), and a tighter 7.8 m sidecut, so I get pretty sketched on it if I put it up on edge going faster than 40 mph. I can ride this one either + / + or duck.

Dupraz has a more centered riding style on groomers. Big open sidecut (8.7 m), I can lay this over on edge at 50+ mph and feel very comfortable. I also can't ride this + / +... it has a ton of tail and even with a slight amount of forward angle on the back foot, the tail feels too grippy on the backend of the turn. I ride this one exclusively duck.

The Moss is super rear-foot driven and basically designed for + / + stance. I ride this one aggressively double posi, +30 / + 12. I can do that because the extreme setback and the swallowtail means the tail releases super quickly. Very backfoot driven.

All carving boards, all very different feels. Only real consistent trends are stiffer than average, varying degrees of taper, and directional shapes.


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## drblast (Feb 28, 2017)

adgu said:


> hijacking? I had no such an intention like that. If I did something out of forum rules, just show me so that I will apologize from every one of you. My post was also related to carving boards because I m trying to carve with a soft board.
> 
> I don't understand why you are bothered about this.


Don't worry about it, hopefully we're all friends here. Threads can go any number of ways... It's a discussion.

Etiquette is to post a new thread to start a new discussion but it's not worth getting upset over.


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## Craig64 (Jul 16, 2015)

adgu said:


> @MrDavey2Shoes @garikgarik
> 
> Dear all, I am very much pleased to see your comments, which I found very helpful for me. I have finished my third season in my snowboarding life. This year, I have been in mountains total 15 days. But in the third day, my left ankle was sprained to outside and I was suffering from ankle pain all other days. Anyway.
> 
> ...


Nice background soundtrack 

Hey mate you need to put some babes in your carving video.

_



_


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## adgu (Oct 2, 2019)

drblast said:


> Don't worry about it, hopefully we're all friends here. Threads can go any number of ways... It's a discussion.
> 
> Etiquette is to post a new thread to start a new discussion but it's not worth getting upset over.


Thanks drblast, I already got my replies and thanks to all. see you in some other discussions..


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## adgu (Oct 2, 2019)

Craig64 said:


> Nice background soundtrack
> 
> Hey mate you need to put some babes in your carving video.


I'll do my best next time


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## Yeahti87 (Jan 17, 2019)

kimchijajonshim said:


> Cafe Racer was mellow, relatively little camber and relaxed flex. It felt very neutral turn to turn, no real natural "snap". You could generate snap with your body movements, but it waited for rider input. I liked it, I would have kept it if it wasn't so wide... 278 mm with size 10 US boots was a load in firm conditions. I replaced it with a Korua Stealth 163, which is also pretty wide (269 mm) but much more manageable (and also has a lot more snap, most likely due to being much more heavily cambered through the camber zone).


I had the CR 59 and still own the 64. Tested them for 3 days, 5 runs and a size swap. My shred buds have owned another CR 64, Pencils 59, 64, Darts 56 and 64 and Otto 61. I have inspected the Otto 57 and the TF 57 in person as well so it’s a good sample of Korua’s ‚true camber’ and ‚directional camber’ bends. The consistent difference is the upkick in the tail and the upkick in the nose but only for the Otto (apart from the shapes obviously). No consistency with the camber bend varying between their ‚true’ and ‚rockered’ camber profiles.

The conclusion after seeing them all in person (only the Dart 56 wasn’t new) is that the camber bend is a random factor. To be honest there is no difference in the nose rocker section as well. In my case it was the CR 59 that had a mellow camber, the arc on the 64 is very high. The Dart 64 and the Otto 57 and 61 had way more camber than the CR 59. Both CRs 64 had the same bend as these more cambered ‚directional camber’ Darts/Pencils/Ottos.

For me the CR 59 also had more snap from the carves than the CR 64 but it was much less cambered so my take on the difference is that since it’s narrower and has a tighter sidecut, it’s quicker to decamber and unload it what generates a better pop from the carve.


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## Scalpelman (Dec 5, 2017)

zirkel said:


> What charateristics make an excellent soft boot carving board?
> 
> Optimal sidecut radius for small, medium (my preferred) or large turns? Board width (I have a size 9 boot)? Soft flexible middle vs stiff middle? What makes a carving board forgiving (my preferred) vs hard charging? How does board taper affect carving turns? Setback or twin? Magnetraction edges vs straight? Is there something beneficial to asymmetrical shapes?
> 
> ...


To the OP, all those qualities you listed impact the style of carving. I haven’t ridden any of the boards on your list. But I have a few dedicated carving boards. My choice of board depends on many factors but mostly the quality of the piste. The better quality snow the less I worry about length and effective edge. If I know there’s some soft stuff to dig an edge into I’ll grab a shorter board with a smaller sidecut to play around. Likewise if there’s good snow I worry less about the type of camber as I don’t need my full edge in contact with the snow. A hybrid will suffice. Currently I’m in love with S camber. But I’m a bit fickle and that may change next season.  Carving under these conditions is really fun and I like a smaller sidecut for C shaped carves. If the snow is nice I’m usually riding just a bit slower and wanting to pop off natural features, so a livelier, less damp board is better. 

If it’s icy I’ll grab a longer full camber deck. Those types of conditions require my full edge and a longer edge to stay on a rail. Usually I’m riding faster S turns when it’s icy so a longer sidecut suits that style of turning. 

Hard charging can mean a lot of things. I consider myself a hard charger. It’s tough for me to break out of that mentality of always riding as fast as I feel comfortable under the conditions. If it’s icy with crud around then trying to lay out high speed carves with those variable conditions is hard to maintain with a poppy board. Your leg gets jackhammered from taking all those bumps. That’s where dampness can really help. A damp board will plow through the crud with less vibrations traveling up your legs. That way you can maintain your carving line at speed with less fatigue. It allows you to focus on carving technique when you’re not riding first tracks on a groomer. But the downside of an overly damp board is loss of pop. 

So I have a variety of boards to suit the conditions and my mood. They vary in length from 155-163. Some full camber some RCR, a couple S camber. Sidecut varies from 7.6-10 in my quiver. I have two full camber carving decks. Both are 163. One is really damp, the other a bit lively.


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## unsuspected (Oct 26, 2015)

I own the same year Orbit as @kimchijajonshim and his description is on point. The board is a true beast and rides hard. So I recommend to size down from your regular length.

@Snowdaddy owns a Tracer for info.


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## 165586 (May 9, 2018)

kimchijajonshim said:


> I briefly owned a Cafe Racer 164 and own a United Shapes Orbit 157. I like both, but very different boards.
> 
> Cafe Racer was mellow, relatively little camber and relaxed flex. It felt very neutral turn to turn, no real natural "snap". You could generate snap with your body movements, but it waited for rider input. I liked it, I would have kept it if it wasn't so wide... 278 mm with size 10 US boots was a load in firm conditions. I replaced it with a Korua Stealth 163, which is also pretty wide (269 mm) but much more manageable (and also has a lot more snap, most likely due to being much more heavily cambered through the camber zone).
> 
> ...


THIS was really good info. Thanks for your input!

Leaning Tracer. Looking for user-friendly groomer carver for next season to compliment the powder board. Like to keep the quiver to 2 boards (3 including split). Ride double positive angles (+25/+7) with narrow stance width. Size 9 boots (currently Genesis + Tourists). Should be able to hold an edge while railing on early morning icy corduroy.


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## Yeahti87 (Jan 17, 2019)

zirkel said:


> Leaning Tracer. Looking for user-friendly groomer carver for next season to compliment the powder board


I’ve been on a Tracer, it’s exactly that - a user-friendly groomer carver. Not a demanding board but it deliveres well.


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## onitsukatiger (Mar 16, 2014)

Of the list you suggested, I'd recommend the US orbit. Probably 154 or 157 for you.


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## bob2356 (Jul 13, 2012)

"Looking for a groomer carving board (70% daily driver) for all conditions (soft, ice, corn) whenever there's no fresh snow."

People have been looking without success for the board for all conditions since Jake Burton was testing boards by hiking Stratton at night.. All boards are a series of compromises in design. An ice carving machine won't be ideal for powder, etc, etc, etc.. Get a board that matches you most common riding conditions and don't sweat it if it's not that great in the days conditions are unusual. 

Get comfortable making a solidly balanced moderate carving turn and it will carry you through most anything no matter what board you are on or what the conditions. Riding might be more work and not totally pretty when conditions turn ugly but it will get you there and let you get a day in when most people are sitting by the fire complaining. 

Demo days are your friend. Hunt for them.


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## MrDavey2Shoes (Mar 5, 2018)

bob2356 said:


> "Looking for a groomer carving board (70% daily driver) for all conditions (soft, ice, corn) whenever there's no fresh snow."
> 
> People have been looking without success for the board for all conditions since Jake Burton was testing boards by hiking Stratton at night.. All boards are a series of compromises in design. An ice carving machine won't be ideal for powder, etc, etc, etc.. Get a board that matches you most common riding conditions and don't sweat it if it's not that great in the days conditions are unusual.
> 
> ...


Everything you said is true EXCEPT, it was Bromley Mountain, just down the road, the Burton guys would ride at night. They didn’t hike it, they drove cars up Bromley Village and then rode down the nearest trail. Coincidentally, actually probably intentionally, that’s the trail Bromley builds their park on nowadays.


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## bob2356 (Jul 13, 2012)

MrDavey2Shoes said:


> Everything you said is true EXCEPT, it was Bromley Mountain, just down the road, the Burton guys would ride at night. They didn’t hike it, they drove cars up Bromley Village and then rode down the nearest trail. Coincidentally, actually probably intentionally, that’s the trail Bromley builds their park on nowadays.


I started when you could only board at west mt ny or stratton so you pretty much rode with burton guys any time you went to Stratton. I've heard the story both ways from burton guys at the time. Probably both were true. I've seen pics at the old Burton factory in Manchester of Jake Burton allegedly hiking up Stratton at night, but I think it was with a snurfer.


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## DownhillKrill (Jan 5, 2021)

Many boards out there which carve great. Your first decision point is how much specialization do you want? The more you specialize, the more the board is losing other traits. How much give and take you to want.


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## Snowdaddy (Feb 2, 2018)

zirkel said:


> Some boards that I'm looking at:
> 
> Korua Cafe Racer
> Nidecker Tracer
> ...


I haven't been on the Café Racer, but I own the Pencil plus, the Bullet Train and the Tracer. I would guess the Pencil is a lot like the Café Racer when you compare sidecuts. I'd say the Tracer is more easy going partly because of its narrower width when compared to a Pencil. The Korua has a longer sidecut radius towards the tail and the Tracer is a bit the opposite. Tracer has a more mellow turn initiation, but tightens up the turn a lot more towards the end. The Korua keeps the turn shape more throughout the turn, making it more race like... At least in my experience.

Personally, if I had to choose, I'd pick a Korua instead of a Nidecker. Even if I spent my third season mostly on the Tracer instead of the Pencil. Mainly because it's more easy going.

I haven't tried the Orbit, but I'd trust @unsuspected on that.

If you get a chance to jump on a Stranda Shorty 169 or 164, I can recommend that one.


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## adgu (Oct 2, 2019)

Dear Everyone, your all opinion is very much important for me. here is some carving trials. I feel very comfortable on my toeside, but there is still some problem with my heelside. I don't know the problem point. What do you think?

please ignore after 80seconds.


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## lbs123 (Jan 24, 2017)

@adgu you have some nice moments there, but you should also adjust your riding to the conditions. Snow seems to be too soft and you are booting out. Besides that you could make transition from the toe to heel side a bit smoother, not leaving your rear hand behind you, but rather gradually pushing it to the front. Also it seems to me that your centre of mass is far away from the heel edge, you could stack more over the edge by opening you shoulders/hips a bit more on heel side.


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## adgu (Oct 2, 2019)

lbs123 said:


> @adgu you have some nice moments there, but you should also adjust your riding to the conditions. Snow seems to be too soft and you are booting out. Besides that you could make transition from the toe to heel side a bit smoother, not leaving your rear hand behind you, but rather gradually pushing it to the front. Also it seems to me that your centre of mass is far away from the heel edge, you could stack more over the edge by opening you shoulders/hips a bit more on heel side.


 Thanks lbs123, I will check my turn speed and try to be smoother. But what could be the reason for loosing balance on heelside edge? how can I keep close my centre of mass to the heel edge?


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## Rip154 (Sep 23, 2017)

You are committed to the turns at least. Think it’s just some more practice and getting strength and balance up. What stance are you running? Looks like you are stalling a little on front foot on heelside turns. Did you check out the Kijima thread? The last pages have a good explanation for this.


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## lbs123 (Jan 24, 2017)

You could get lower earlier in the turn, check this comparison with one of the Toyfilms riders. It seems you are standing tall when switching from toe to heel side turn and only getting low when you turn down the fall line. This might put too much pressure on the edge in the 2nd half of the turn and result in losing the edge. Try to switch edges faster and stay lower between turns. Other thing might be that you are putting too much weight on the front leg too.


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## garikgarik (Dec 15, 2011)

adgu said:


> Dear Everyone, your all opinion is very much important for me. here is some carving trials. I feel very comfortable on my toeside, but there is still some problem with my heelside. I don't know the problem point. What do you think?
> 
> please ignore after 80seconds.


Too much weight on front leg, shift your weight towards back leg. Imagine that your pelvis and your back shoulder are on one line over your back binding. Also helps to lean your back binding’s highback a bit more forward than the front one.
Also huge progress and nice riding.


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## garikgarik (Dec 15, 2011)

adgu said:


> Dear Everyone, your all opinion is very much important for me. here is some carving trials. I feel very comfortable on my toeside, but there is still some problem with my heelside. I don't know the problem point. What do you think?
> 
> please ignore after 80seconds.


Second point is that you finish your toeside in plus stance (leading hand behind heelside edge) 
You kinda don’t have neutral position in between your turns.
Hence you can’t actively rotate into your heelside turn nor with lower body neither with upper.
It kinda helps in duck stance. 
Try to finish your toeside turn with your leading hand over the nose of your board, and try to get back into neutral position in between the turns


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## adgu (Oct 2, 2019)

Rip154 said:


> You are committed to the turns at least. Think it’s just some more practice and getting strength and balance up. What stance are you running? Looks like you are stalling a little on front foot on heelside turns. Did you check out the Kijima thread? The last pages have a good explanation for this.


Hello Rip154, yes I really needs tons of practice but I have practice with correct techniques. my stance is F36 R21 but I feel both must be little bit more forward. I m thinking on F39 R30 or something. I did not know Kijima Thread? can you send me a link? thanks for your comments.


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## adgu (Oct 2, 2019)

lbs123 said:


> You could get lower earlier in the turn, check this comparison with one of the Toyfilms riders. It seems you are standing tall when switching from toe to heel side turn and only getting low when you turn down the fall line. This might put too much pressure on the edge in the 2nd half of the turn and result in losing the edge. Try to switch edges faster and stay lower between turns. Other thing might be that you are putting too much weight on the front leg too.
> 
> View attachment 161959


You are amazing  thank you. I will try this next week ride.


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## adgu (Oct 2, 2019)

garikgarik said:


> Too much weight on front leg, shift your weight towards back leg. Imagine that your pelvis and your back shoulder are on one line over your back binding. Also helps to lean your back binding’s highback a bit more forward than the front one.
> Also huge progress and nice riding.


Thanks garikgarik, these really help me to understand better. I am gonna try these all.


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## adgu (Oct 2, 2019)

garikgarik said:


> Second point is that you finish your toeside in plus stance (leading hand behind heelside edge)
> You kinda don’t have neutral position in between your turns.
> Hence you can’t actively rotate into your heelside turn nor with lower body neither with upper.
> It kinda helps in duck stance.
> Try to finish your toeside turn with your leading hand over the nose of your board, and try to get back into neutral position in between the turns


I got you. Do I understand correctly, I need to finish both turns with neutral position (parallel to board) and start another turn smoothly? yes, I just realized that my chest still look forward and my front arm is out of board line. this my lose my balance during the heelside turn? is that so?


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## garikgarik (Dec 15, 2011)

adgu said:


> I got you. Do I understand correctly, I need to finish both turns with neutral position (parallel to board) and start another turn smoothly? yes, I just realized that my chest still look forward and my front arm is out of board line. this my lose my balance during the heelside turn? is that so?


Correct, i’d focus on these two things - finishing turns in neutral stance with weight stacked over your back leg, try a short movement like you push your board forward with your legs in the last part of the turn, and initiating heelside turn with more weight on back leg, like now front part of the board has higher edge angle than the back one, means that all your weight is concentrated on the 1/3 of effective edge, it is important to engage the whole edge right from the start of your heelside turn.


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## adgu (Oct 2, 2019)

garikgarik said:


> Correct, i’d focus on these two things - finishing turns in neutral stance with weight stacked over your back leg, try a short movement like you push your board forward with your legs in the last part of the turn, and initiating heelside turn with more weight on back leg, like now front part of the board has higher edge angle than the back one, means that all your weight is concentrated on the 1/3 of effective edge, it is important to engage the whole edge right from the start of your heelside turn.


This was very useful information, thank you garikgarik. but it also sounds difficult to do. I will try and practice more next week.


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## adgu (Oct 2, 2019)

Hello everyone, I just try to do what you suggested me last weeks. I tried to finish my toe side turn with neutral stance, it really help me to start heel side turn. But I am still difficulty to get lower on heel side turn. When I tried to turn my chest toward to direction, the board start immediate turn and I fall down. And I feel it is not smooth enough. can you please check the video. this is slow motion for better understanding. sorry I don't have much video because riding is more fun to record video.






by the way, why don't we follow each other on Instagram? here is my account @adgu please add, thanks.


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## Yeahti87 (Jan 17, 2019)

It looks good but a couple of things that might help.
1. Try to finish the toeside perpendicular to the fall line.
2. You initiate the backside from the front foot and get low quickly but then shift your weight to the backfoot a bit more. By trial and error you should find the sweet spot (look at the board where it loses the grip first). If it’s the nose you haven’t put enough pressure there at that stage, if the backfoot drifts first before you fall more weight shifted there.
3. Lower the highback forward lean a bit. It will be less responsive but will let you get lower before you tilt the board hard and start tightening the turn really fast.
4. You can also try a board with a bigger sidecut radius.


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## adgu (Oct 2, 2019)

Yeahti87 said:


> It looks good but a couple of things that might help.
> 1. Try to finish the toeside perpendicular to the fall line.
> 2. You initiate the backside from the front foot and get low quickly but then shift your weight to the backfoot a bit more. By trial and error you should find the sweet spot (look at the board where it loses the grip first). If it’s the nose you haven’t put enough pressure there at that stage, if the backfoot drifts first before you fall more weight shifted there.
> 3. Lower the highback forward lean a bit. It will be less responsive but will let you get lower before you tilt the board hard and start tightening the turn really fast.
> 4. You can also try a board with a bigger sidecut radius.


Hello Yeahti87, I think I start my heelside turn with front foot, but I am not sure if my toeside finish perpendicular to fall like or not. Actually I know this but never care I think. This means, I need to turn as early as possible. I will be in mountain the other week and I will keep in mind those suggestions. thank you very much. (I have only this Korua Otto and I have to do it with this one).


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## Rip154 (Sep 23, 2017)

Working with the board you have is a good point. That also means you gotta work with the limitations of that board. Maybe you don’t get exactly the turn you want, but the best turn you can do with that board.


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## adgu (Oct 2, 2019)

Rip154 said:


> Working with the board you have is a good point. That also means you gotta work with the limitations of that board. Maybe you don’t get exactly the turn you want, but the best turn you can do with that board.


Hello Rip154, you are right. I feel I can do it, but I have to be patient. If I do my best with this one, I would like to buy the new board which is more suitable for aggressive turns. Thanks for your comments.


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## adgu (Oct 2, 2019)

Rip154 said:


> Working with the board you have is a good point. That also means you gotta work with the limitations of that board. Maybe you don’t get exactly the turn you want, but the best turn you can do with that board.


Exactly.. I have another video here. what I realized is that I do not turn my chest enough to the forward. I will try to turn my chest more and try to keep my hips over the board this weekend. I have to close the season this weekend and it is very sad to wait for next Winter for my next snowboarding.


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## adgu (Oct 2, 2019)

Hello Everyone, here is the end of season video. I tried to turn my chest to the forward but something is wrong or I need to make more practice.. please check and comment your suggestions. .thanks.


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## Rip154 (Sep 23, 2017)

Can see improvement, heelsides are starting to look nice. Looks a little tailheavy on toeside now, overrotating or not easing into the turn. Could try to get lower in the start and then stand back up when most of the rotation is done, so it gets progressive and not like flipping a switch. Also, I think you might be too much forward on stance angles, unless you need it for the width. Tried 30/12 or 27/9? Easing off on the stance will slow down toeside a bit, maybe give you more control. Also try without touching the ground on toeside, because then you can’t be off balance.


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## DaveMcI (Aug 19, 2013)

The wash outs and other problems can be solved by getting lower and more dynamic in a squating type response. You are definitely carving nicely but if you get more squaty it will help you manage your turns better. Which means more control in all aspects of the carve. In the last video you are definitely carving, but u are stuck in the carve. Hence when you have to adjust ( for a random other ski or ride person) you have to ditch the carve. If you have more gate control (squatimg capacity) you would have more carve control.


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## adgu (Oct 2, 2019)

Rip154 said:


> Can see improvement, heelsides are starting to look nice. Looks a little tailheavy on toeside now, overrotating or not easing into the turn. Could try to get lower in the start and then stand back up when most of the rotation is done, so it gets progressive and not like flipping a switch. Also, I think you might be too much forward on stance angles, unless you need it for the width. Tried 30/12 or 27/9? Easing off on the stance will slow down toeside a bit, maybe give you more control. Also try without touching the ground on toeside, because then you can’t be off balance.


Hello Rip154, thanks. that's right, I also feel the need of lower with knee and stand up after rotation done. Besides, Yes, my stance angles are F+42 B+30. Actually the width is ok for boots but I really feel comfortable with these angles. But other ones could be tried. This season is over in Turkey already, but I will try it next season. I will try not to touch the ground as much as possible. I understand what you exactly mean. Thanks again.


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## adgu (Oct 2, 2019)

DaveMcI said:


> The wash outs and other problems can be solved by getting lower and more dynamic in a squating type response. You are definitely carving nicely but if you get more squaty it will help you manage your turns better. Which means more control in all aspects of the carve. In the last video you are definitely carving, but u are stuck in the carve. Hence when you have to adjust ( for a random other ski or ride person) you have to ditch the carve. If you have more gate control (squatimg capacity) you would have more carve control.


Hello DaveMcl, nice to hear your comments. Thank you very much. I will try to get lower as squating type in my next riding (which will be most probably in next season anyway). I will check and try all your suggestions then. I like you all guys, and thanks for your suggestions... I have improved my skills more thanks to your advices.


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## Snowdaddy (Feb 2, 2018)

This has to be the best spam yet...


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## Hgthegreat (Jul 15, 2021)

I found a solid deal for a Cafe Racer in my size, I already have a K2 Alchemist and Gnu Gremlin for carving, is there anything that Cafe Racer would add? I just always wanted to try a Korua and never got a chance.


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## ridethecliche (Feb 27, 2019)

@adgu it also looks a little like you're rushing things and speeding up and over exaggerating your movements. Flow with it a bit more and try to hold the carves a bit longer. 

Looks really solid though! 

@Hgthegreat 
Try it then!


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## Yeahti87 (Jan 17, 2019)

Hgthegreat said:


> I found a *solid deal* for a Cafe Racer *in my size*, I already have a K2 Alchemist and Gnu Gremlin for carving, is there anything that Cafe Racer would add? I just *always wanted to try* a Korua and never got a chance.


Fixed.


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## adgu (Oct 2, 2019)

ridethecliche said:


> @adgu it also looks a little like you're rushing things and speeding up and over exaggerating your movements. Flow with it a bit more and try to hold the carves a bit longer.
> 
> Looks really solid though!
> 
> ...


Nice observation, I will keep this in my mind.


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## JWJW (9 mo ago)

165586 said:


> What charateristics make an excellent soft boot carving board?
> 
> Optimal sidecut radius for small, medium (my preferred) or large turns? Board width (I have a size 9 boot)? Soft flexible middle vs stiff middle? What makes a carving board forgiving (my preferred) vs hard charging? How does board taper affect carving turns? Setback or twin? Magnetraction edges vs straight? Is there something beneficial to asymmetrical shapes?
> 
> ...


Check out nitro woodcarver...solid reviews over the past few years.


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## adgu (Oct 2, 2019)

Dear everyone... I make this video slow motion to see my technique and I really need your comments about stance, body position etc. I tried to start turning as early as possible as you see. it made so much difference but still a lot of things are missing... Thanks.









Heel Side Turning Technique Check


In this video, I tried to check my technique to see if it is stable and correct turning position. According to my observation, I need to bend my upper body m...




www.youtube.com


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## DaveMcI (Aug 19, 2013)

Looks, good. Can u play a normal speed video with a couple linked turns? That would be better for a critique


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## adgu (Oct 2, 2019)

DaveMcI said:


> Looks, good. Can u play a normal speed video with a couple linked turns? That would be better for a critique


Hello Dave, here is the normal speed of this video..








heel side - normal speed for snowboarding forum


heel side - normal speed for snowboarding forum




youtube.com





by the way, you can find the full day riding within 6min in my last shares at my youtube channel.


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## Yeahti87 (Jan 17, 2019)

That’s a very good heelside turn. Good job.


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## adgu (Oct 2, 2019)

Yeahti87 said:


> That’s a very good heelside turn. Good job.


Thanks Yeahti87, I try to be better and you all help me much to fix my body position.. I think I still need to improve more.


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## MrDavey2Shoes (Mar 5, 2018)

To be honest I’m not sure you need any critique from any of us. Turns look pretty damn dialed to me. If you want them to be more drawn out maybe just stay on the front foot longer.


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## adgu (Oct 2, 2019)

MrDavey2Shoes said:


> To be honest I’m not sure you need any critique from any of us. Turns look pretty damn dialed to me. If you want them to be more drawn out maybe just stay on the front foot longer.


Thanks MrDavey2Shoes, very happy to see your comment. But believe me, all guys here have given me very critical information and I reach this level with the help of their instructions. For instance; completing the turn... start turning as early as possible.. etc. these critical suggestions save my life.. thanks to all and I know I still need your advice if any of you find any mistakes.. Thank you again and I ll keep sharing my progress.


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