# Quick edge to edge and speed control



## RVM (Jan 31, 2007)

Cool, I'll work on that next week when I'm up. I probably still move my upper body a bit more than I need to while riding. I'll focus on putting most of the movement into my lower body.

Regarding the unwanted carve, it actually happens evenly on both my toe and heel edge, though I think you're right in that I'm leaning my entire body too hard.

Thanks so much for the thoughtful advice!


----------



## hellside (Dec 28, 2008)

Snowolf said:


> Do not let the nose cross the fall line


nose of what?



Snowolf said:


> ...Arch your back to keep your upper body stacked over your board....





Snowolf said:


> ... Again, arch the back to keep you upper body over the board and do ....


Do I arch in different direction?

Thanks for teaching this!


----------



## RVM (Jan 31, 2007)

Sno, your advice was awesome! It took a few tries to figure out how this should feel, but once it clicked it all came together smoothly. I'm still a bit squirrely doing it, but I feel like I have the basics down and just need to master the technique now. If it matters I was practicing this on dusted ice (early morning) and slush (it got to 57F by noon where I was over the weekend).

This really opened up my riding ability and gave me more options when going down the hill. It also really upped my confidence at higher speeds. Thanks so much! Your time and knowledge and your willingness to share both are very much appreciated!


----------



## Jimmyb (Dec 22, 2010)

I was having the same problem controlling my speed. I'm a beginner but couldn't pass up a custom x on clearance for $150. The bruises I have will be worth it after I catch up with the learning curve. Thanks for the advice. I would get my edge locked in and have to almost completely stop to change from heal to toe or vice versa. Also, its a 156 and I'm 5'10" and 179 pounds. I think it was the correct size?


----------



## AdrenalinPlease (Dec 15, 2010)

Snowolf said:


> Thanks for the feedback. It means a lot to me to know that my efforts have helped someone; that is why I do this both here and on the slopes....:thumbsup:.


I have learned more from your post than I have in the last few years by myself.



Jimmyb said:


> I was having the same problem controlling my speed. I'm a beginner but couldn't pass up a custom x on clearance for $150. The bruises I have will be worth it after I catch up with the learning curve. Thanks for the advice. I would get my edge locked in and have to almost completely stop to change from heal to toe or vice versa. Also, its a 156 and I'm 5'10" and 179 pounds. I think it was the correct size?


I think a 158 is more your size, but the question is what are you going to be using it for?


----------



## Jimmyb (Dec 22, 2010)

Mainly groomers and pow.


----------



## TXBDan (Feb 16, 2010)

my dynamic riding has really come a long lately. what i consiously think about is advice i think i read from snowolf some time ago. its to sort of pump by sucking up your feet during the edge transition and then pushing out forward for heelside and pushing out back for toe side. your body stays in the same place so youre not fighting your inertia. im thinking push forward, suck up, push back, suck up, push forward, suck up, repeat. sucking up gets you low and allows the board to transition between edges much much easier. I'm getting good and can now transition edges about once per second. With some aggressive skid angles to control speed and this quick dynamic riding, i can now tackle blacks pretty darn well.


----------



## rasmasyean (Jan 26, 2008)

Sounds like detuning your tip and tail of the board would help. 
In your case, the tip detuning helps smoothly initiate a turn. The tail detuning will help smothly come out of a turn and enter into the next.

There are various instructions on the internet on this and videos on youtube. Just search "snowboard detuning". It's not really hard but if you're nervous about your "mechanical skills", just bring it to a shop.


----------



## rasmasyean (Jan 26, 2008)

Screw "good riding technique". Just "cheat" and tune your board like everyone else. Unless you are trying to force yourself to LTR the hard way because it will build character or something, just give your board a good tune to your specific type of riding you do most. You will have a much better time. SnoWolf is just one of those ancient Kung Fu dudes who will forever seek some perfection and true harmony with mind and body an snowboard (instead of sword). :laugh:

BTW, pro competitors tune their equipment all the time too...or they have ppl turn it for them like "World Cup Technicians". There actually is such a worker!


----------



## Umberlee (Sep 12, 2010)

Snowolf said:


> Detuning and bevels are not really required for good riding technique. You have the right idea. It is called unweighting. In order to make good, positive and quick edge transitions using both feet simultaneously or close, you need to briefly unweight the board. There is up unweighting where you pop up off of the snow with a rapid push up away from your board and a down unweighting, where you briskly collapse your lower body and you drop down toward your board. Up unweighting is fun and effective for wide open carves but down unweighting is a better tactic for steep terrain where you are doing more dynamic skidded turns....:thumbsup:


Cheers Snowolf, I've just spent a productive day at the snowdome mastering down unweighting and dynamic skidded turns from the info in this thread. Thanks to this forum my riding's progressing faster than I could have dreamed, I just wish I could get more time on the snow to put all the theory into practice!


----------



## Edp25 (Dec 27, 2010)

This thread was a great help to me this weekend. Thanks to all for the great advice!


----------



## rasmasyean (Jan 26, 2008)

Umberlee said:


> Cheers Snowolf, I've just spent a productive day at the snowdome mastering down unweighting and dynamic skidded turns from the info in this thread. Thanks to this forum my riding's progressing faster than I could have dreamed, I just wish I could get more time on the snow to put all the theory into practice!


And if you really want a quick edge change, do a slight simultaneous counterotation with your upper boddy and arms while you unweight. This will allow you to whip the board faster arround. The basic idea is that: every (rotational) action has an equal and opposite (rotational) reaction. It takes some time to get used to this advanced technique apparently, so it would need some extra work.

And if you have a tip-tail detune and bevel, as snowolf mentioned, it will be more forgiving if you aren't "perfect" like some ppl. But the advantage is that you can make quicker edge changes on the fly, dodging those trees and little kids.


----------



## gjsnowboarder (Sep 1, 2009)

rasmasyean said:


> And if you really want a quick edge change, do a slight simultaneous counterotation with your upper boddy and arms while you unweight. This will allow you to whip the board faster arround. The basic idea is that: every (rotational) action has an equal and opposite (rotational) reaction. It takes some time to get used to this advanced technique apparently, so it would need some extra work.
> 
> And if you have a tip-tail detune and bevel, as snowolf mentioned, it will be more forgiving if you aren't "perfect" like some ppl. But the advantage is that you can make quicker edge changes on the fly, dodging those trees and little kids.


Don't follow this advice. Because if you counter rotate you are moving force opposite of the direction that you are going. This will cause a cross-out of intended direction. Meaning instead of turning you end up go in the direction of which ever rotational force was greater. Not only this but due to the counter rotation you will also twist up your spine which will limit your range of motion and can leave you in a compromised position to manage terrain you are riding towards. Remember that it is the body parts that are closer the snowboard that will move it quicker. Movement that further way from the board can have unintended consequences if not complimenting the lower.

As far as the detuning goes edge change isn't made "quicker" by a de-tuned edge. IT limits the potential of unitentional catches. Which is why jibbers prefer doing this so when boardsliding a rail they limit the equipment profile of wanting to catch the edge. However in the pipe or in carving having your new edge "catch"into the snow quicker is a preferred result which is harder to do when you edge is de-tuned/beveled.


----------



## rasmasyean (Jan 26, 2008)

gjsnowboarder said:


> Don't follow this advice. Because if you counter rotate you are moving force opposite of the direction that you are going. This will cause a cross-out of intended direction. Meaning instead of turning you end up go in the direction of which ever rotational force was greater. Not only this but due to the counter rotation you will also twist up your spine which will limit your range of motion and can leave you in a compromised position to manage terrain you are riding towards. Remember that it is the body parts that are closer the snowboard that will move it quicker. Movement that further way from the board can have unintended consequences if not complimenting the lower.
> 
> As far as the detuning goes edge change isn't made "quicker" by a de-tuned edge. IT limits the potential of unitentional catches. Which is why jibbers prefer doing this so when boardsliding a rail they limit the equipment profile of wanting to catch the edge. However in the pipe or in carving having your new edge "catch"into the snow quicker is a preferred result which is harder to do when you edge is de-tuned/beveled.


That doesn't make sense. how can your rotational force make it go in the "opposite direction" of your turn (a translation). Rotation only positions your board in the direction you want to go. Translation is caused by the forces of the snow and does not matter whether your body is a stick or a pretzel. Besides, the counter rotation is just for a moment. You don't keep your "spine twisted" for the rest of your riding.

And if you look it up, detuning also smooths the transition in and out of a turn. And bevels also increase speeds of snowboards in both turning and flat basing. When you look at "half pipe bevels" though it's not 3 degrees like jibbing bevels, it's like 1 degree since you can take advantage of that quicker edge catching you are talking about. If you want good edge "bite", you bevel the side edge to make the total edge angel < 90 degrees. But that's usually for racing.

Check this out.
http://www.tognar.com/bevel_edge_tips_file_bevel_ski_snowboard.html


Also, think about it this way. If the snow was perfectly flat like an ice rink, when you are transitioning an edge and you have 0 degree base bevel, when you are flat, both edges are almost engaged. If it was 3 degrees, it means there is a 6 degree leeway between edge engagements. That also means a 6 degree of marjin of error for "jibbers / spinners". Now anyone can say in a perfect athelete you wouldn't need this. But the snow is not even perfectly flat so... Ultimately, somewhere between 1-3 is ideal for most ppl. But to say that it's "only for rails" or whatever, is totally missing a huge part of what beveling is about.


----------



## gjsnowboarder (Sep 1, 2009)

rasmasyean said:


> That doesn't make sense. how can your rotational force make it go in the "opposite direction" of your turn (a translation). Rotation only positions your board in the direction you want to go. Translation is caused by the forces of the snow and does not matter whether your body is a stick or a pretzel. Besides, the counter rotation is just for a moment. You don't keep your "spine twisted" for the rest of your riding.
> 
> And if you look it up, detuning also smooths the transition in and out of a turn. And bevels also increase speeds of snowboards in both turning and flat basing. When you look at "half pipe bevels" though it's not 3 degrees like jibbing bevels, it's like 1 degree since you can take advantage of that quicker edge catching you are talking about. If you want good edge "bite", you bevel the side edge to make the total edge angel < 90 degrees. But that's usually for racing.
> 
> ...


your rotationl forces can go in opposite directions because your are dealing with more then one plane(sp?) of movement. To get counter rotation your upper body is going to have to move seperate from your lower body. When the direction of rotation is opposite of each other it causes a wind-up in a persons spine much like twirling a pair a headphone cords. When you release the force acting on the headphones it unwinds in the opposite direction it had been twirling. What this means in snowboarding is that counter the rotation that is opposite to the dierection you are turning a big un-weighting movement is needed to allow the lower and upper body to rematch and turn in the desired direction. Big movements are slow. Adn when they originate up high in the body they can move up your center of gravity. Which in turn can cause you to roll over like an SUV. You can still ride a board using counter-rotation, but it leaves you compromised for being able to absorb terrain or turn the board as well. Another example of the force involved is a straight air. While the forces of gravity are affecting the contact and pressure of the snowboard a person riding countered can still ride and use various muscles to go in the direction they want to travel. The moment they pop off the lip those forces are no longer present and the spin unwinds typically causing the board to typically pivot 45- 90 degrees. Landing 90 off a jump isn't my idea fun. You say that counter-rotation is just for a "moment" but wouldn't be better to use that "moment" for something better? 
AS for the beveling I like the fact you actually ended up agreeing with me. i.e. less bevel = quicker. As for the comment "only for rails" I didn't say that. I said "preferred by jibbers." The reasoning is the added margin of error they can enjoy without catching an edge. A beveled edge is also preferred for learner boards for the same reason. Better margin of error before catching an edge.


----------



## NIghtwing (Jun 20, 2014)

*Quick Edge tips from Snowolf not showing*

Highly interested in the reply by Snowolf but it does not show. Can anyone repost? (if allowed) I am always looking to intake edge control tips. I am a long time snowboarder and full advanced but know that I can always learn more and/or better techniques. Thx.

Also hoping that these tips can be applied to big feet wide board rider.


----------



## jdang307 (Feb 6, 2011)

All of Snowolf's posts are now in the ether.


----------

