# Anyone got high-end durable bib they love?



## finboy (12 mo ago)

Thoughts on going to something like an ak tusk that is a more robust goretex pro?


----------



## Oldman (Mar 7, 2012)

Give a good look at Flylow. I have a pair of their pants and bibs that I have been wearing for almost 10 years now. I'm not that hard on my stuff, but they have been totally bomb proof.


----------



## Chern (3 mo ago)

Just got a pair of the 686 Dispatch in a Large. It was a replacement from a warranty issue for a past pair. Glad I sized up. more room, but I wouldn’t say they are baggy. Medium grabs the boys a little too firmly but still fit.
I‘ve toured and ridden in them a few times this season. For me it’s about venting. Both in and outside of each leg has a vent which is a plus. pockets are decently placed. Cargo pockets on both legs. Big front pockets. chest pockets are on the small side, but will hold essentials like a tool or a scraper. It’s not one big “dump it all in” pocket.
I agree photos on their website suck and don’t really show you all that this pant has to offer. With that said, I highly recommend. price point is good for what you get. They did have a 20% / $90 off Black Friday deal. Don’t know if they’d give it to you. Never hurts to ask nicely.
Colors are drab this year. Like you I want to be seen. If it weren’t a warranty replacement I don’t know if I’d have picked these due to color options. I went with the Orion blue/ gray over the black or BSB (baby sh*t brown). I certainly wouldnt have picked them based on the photos. Now that I have a pair, I do like them.


----------



## kimchijajonshim (Aug 19, 2007)

finboy said:


> Thoughts on going to something like an ak tusk that is a more robust goretex pro?


Goretex Pro isn't inherently more robust, depends on the face fabric. Tusk and AK457 are designed around touring, so they prioritize lightness. I believe they're only like 40 Denier fabric, opposed to 80-ish on the non-Pro Freebird.


----------



## toaster (Jun 12, 2021)

1. If you are currently getting 2-3 seasons out of a pair of bibs you're doing something right.

2. Athletic fit and freedom of movement are mutually exclusive. Backcountry skiers achieve this using softshell material. Softshell is notoriously not durable over multiple seasons. These are heavy duty softshell, and may be close to what you're looking for:








Men's Trailbreaker II Pants


Breathable, stretch-woven soft shell with waterproof lower legs to protect you where you’re most exposed to snow




www.outdoorresearch.com





3. I was going to suggest FlyLow Baker bibs. *There is no more durable ski/snowboard bib on the planet.* I'm going on season FOUR (150+ days) with my current pair. You're trying to have it both ways -- durable with freedom of movement, yet not baggy but you have "thunder thighs". These are what you need:








Baker Bib


One of our most popular bib ski pants, the Baker Bib is built for skiers that demand the most of their gear. Great for a mix of inbounds and backcountry skiing.




flylowgear.com


----------



## Donutz (May 12, 2010)

I weigh 200 lbs and I use exclusively Burton [AK] bibs. I literally haven't had one fail yet. OTOH, I don't go dragging my ass on slopes doing eurocarves either.


----------



## Demi9OD (Dec 23, 2014)

kimchijajonshim said:


> Goretex Pro isn't inherently more robust, depends on the face fabric. Tusk and AK457 are designed around touring, so they prioritize lightness. I believe they're only like 40 Denier fabric, opposed to 80-ish on the non-Pro Freebird.


Goretex Pro's advantage is it's breathability. It's nice to have for a top but I don't feel it's as important on pants/bibs.

I picked up a Flylow Baker bib from Backcountry in April for $250 to replace my aging and poorly vented North Face bibs I got off GearTrade many years ago. Looking forward to these lasting me for the next decade, only seeing 6-12 days on the slopes a year. I am 41, 5'9, 175lbs with a dadbod and these will keep me honest in Medium. It would be hard to ratchet my bindings if I put on 15lbs lol!

Edit: I did return a FlyLow jacket that was just too heavy and stiff. I'd have happily worn that thing into a Mad Max sand storm. Ended up in a Vassi GTX Pro jacket that worked out really well. Full zipped on a 15 minute bus ride after a day of shredding and didn't get stuffy at all, so breathable.


----------



## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

I mean, you may already know it but, you da problem. 
Flylow built their name on durability, Norrona might be a good bet but no personal experience yet, maybe look at FW or Trew, maybe Patagonia or Arcteryx...

How rough is your normal existence that you're blowing through shit like this? I know guys, your size, that spend more days on a sled or splitting than most people do on resort that don't go through outerwear that fast. Like multiple seasons. Maybe just slow down and don't go ape shit as you put on your pants?


----------



## kimchijajonshim (Aug 19, 2007)

Nivek said:


> I mean, you may already know it but, you da problem.
> Flylow built their name on durability, Norrona might be a good bet but no personal experience yet, maybe look at FW or Trew, maybe Patagonia or Arcteryx...
> 
> How rough is your normal existence that you're blowing through shit like this? I know guys, your size, that spend more days on a sled or splitting than most people do on resort that don't go through outerwear that fast. Like multiple seasons. Maybe just slow down and don't go ape shit as you put on your pants?


I don't do anything especially nuts. Especially 10+ years ago. I definitely accelerated seat wear in the past few years focusing more on deep carving, with the occasional 35-40 mph butt slide on groomers. I don't fall a ton, but my falls tend to be violent, even on controlled butt slides.

I-- and my wife --just accept that I am an extreme outlier that destroys shit. Combination of weight, riding relatively hard, liking a more fitted silhouette (more stress on seams), and forgetfulness / carelessness. Normal set of jeans last me less than of a year of consistent wear before I start blowing holes in the crotch. I wear through shoe outsoles absurdly quickly. I've broken 3 bed frames in my adult life, and at least 6 phones. Last iPhone was in my pocket when I had a minor fall in a skate bowl (forgot I had it in my back pocket). I took it to the Apple store thinking I needed a cracked screen replacement. Technician took a look at it and said: "Don't see that every day... that's not repairable, the frame of the phone is literally bent."

Hell, last season I EXPLODED a binding casually landing an ollie on a groomer at maybe 25-30 mph. Lost control and went to my butt. I surveyed the damage and was really confused because my ratchets were still done... I shattered the fucking heelcup in two separate places, and the remains were still wrapped around my foot. Thankfully the run I was on was empty and I was technically competent enough to one-foot down 2k of vert lol.

(Edit on that last bit: should mention the exploded bindings were sample and had a cored out weak point that was addressed in the production model. But still...)



toaster said:


> 1. If you are currently getting 2-3 seasons out of a pair of bibs you're doing something right.
> 
> 2. Athletic fit and freedom of movement are mutually exclusive. Backcountry skiers achieve this using softshell material. Softshell is notoriously not durable over multiple seasons. These are heavy duty softshell, and may be close to what you're looking for:
> 
> ...


1. 3 seasons for me is max 100 days, probably more like 80 in any given consecutive 3 year stretch. I'd honestly be happy with 100-ish days of useful life, except I'm usually contacting warranty after more like 40-60.

2. "Athletic fit and freedom of movement are mutually exclusive. " This isn't true? Practically speaking [ak] Freebirds have the cut I want with no meaningful restriction of movement. I can hike, ride, and generally move without issue. Unfortunately seems that I put more stress on the seams when I tumble because of lack of excess fabric. I wouldn't call them tight by any means, but I don't give a lot of slack.

3. Thanks, Flylow has never really popped up on my radar but sounds promising. I'm a little skeptical of "no more durable bib" on the planet, but they look promising. 150 denier face fabric, not that expensive, decent relaxed but not schlubby fit. Wish they weren't so obviously a ski brand (they have two token no-name snowboarders on the team, but all the marketing collateral on the website features skiers or models in ski boots), but that doesn't matter too much day-to-day.


----------



## ridethecliche (Feb 27, 2019)

Just buy two of whatever you like to rotate them or to have a backup. If one dies you still have something to wear while waiting on warranty.


----------



## eleveneightnate (4 mo ago)

Nivek said:


> maybe look at FW


Been eying FW’s line. Any experience? Love the minimalist thing they have going on and their marketing is mostly snowboarding forward, I just don’t know anyone that has any of their stuff.


----------



## Etienne (Apr 2, 2021)

I had an AK, which got a crampon cut—but any would have I think. I changed it (for sizing reason) and among the ones I considered there was : Volcom, Trew, Penguin, Strafe, FlyFlow. All of them have an high end bib that was reviewed as pretty bombproof.

I ended with a FW manifest tour 3L. It's great on many level: it breathes really well (better than gore, at the cost of being a bit less waterproof), it's sturdy and comfy, some feature are really cool lik the magnet pocket (really great for big gloves). I would have just liked one extra tranceiver pocket and it would be perfect! (edit: I just saw they added one on the new model…).


----------



## Schoobang (Nov 4, 2019)

I love my Norröna Tamok bibs.


----------



## kimchijajonshim (Aug 19, 2007)

Schoobang said:


> I love my Norröna Tamok bibs.


What're your height / weight / build specs, and how's the fit on these? They look $$$$ but promising. If they last me 4-5 seasons, I'll be happy.



Etienne said:


> I had an AK, which got a crampon cut—but any would have I think. I changed it (for sizing reason) and among the ones I considered there was : Volcom, Trew, Penguin, Strafe, FlyFlow. All of them have an high end bib that was reviewed as pretty bombproof.
> 
> I ended with a FW manifest tour 3L. It's great on many level: it breathes really well (better than gore, at the cost of being a bit less waterproof), it's sturdy and comfy, some feature are really cool lik the magnet pocket (really great for big gloves). I would have just liked one extra tranceiver pocket and it would be perfect! (edit: I just saw they added one on the new model…).


Thanks, a few good Euro options I wasn't aware of. FW looks pretty promising. Good fit, good colors, not crazy $, available in the States.

Penguin also looks interesting, but looks like I'd probably have to travel to Europe or get something shipped across the Atlantic to even try anything on.


----------



## unsuspected (Oct 26, 2015)

kimchijajonshim said:


> Goretex Pro isn't inherently more robust, depends on the face fabric. Tusk and AK457 are designed around touring, so they prioritize lightness. I believe they're only like 40 Denier fabric, opposed to 80-ish on the non-Pro Freebird.


I can answer this since I have the Tusk jacket and have tried the bibs. No, just no.
The jacket was 40D and pants 70D when I bought mine. Burton don't specify that info on their site anymore unfortunately.
Im light small dude at 240lbs but with more of a dadbod, all belly no ass and bigger than average thighs but I ain't destruction derby on two legs. I use my jacket almost at a daily basis (mostly ridin the bike to and back from work) and it has not shown no wear or tear for 2 years. I did rip a hole thru the fabric the first week but since it's been all good.


----------



## kimchijajonshim (Aug 19, 2007)

unsuspected said:


> I can answer this since I have the Tusk jacket and have tried the bibs. No, just no.
> The jacket was *40D and pants 70D *when I bought mine. Burton don't specify that info on their site anymore unfortunately.
> Im light small dude at 240lbs but with more of a dadbod, all belly no ass and bigger than average thighs but I ain't destruction derby on two legs. I use my jacket almost at a daily basis (mostly ridin the bike to and back from work) and it has not shown no wear or tear for 2 years. I did rip a hole thru the fabric the first week but since it's been all good.


Thanks, you're right. I found some old product pages and you're right, 40D jacket, 70D hi-top pants. Still lighter weight than I'm comfortable given my history destroying nominally tougher 78D Freebirds.

Sidenote: wish more companies would just provide this metric and just general info about face fabrics. Face fabrics texture and weight have huge impacts on comfort and performance, but most snowboard companies just focus on the membranes. 20k doesn't mean a whole lot in a vacuum.


----------



## Elevation212 (Apr 21, 2019)

I think the endeavor 3L bibs are the best deal in the industry, fully taped, breathable but waterproof, been rocking my current pair for over 120 days of back country and resort with no signs of wear









Endeavor 3L Shelter Bib Pant


The 3 Layer Shelter Bib Pant is our take on the technical outerwear layer that can be used all season from first snow to spring slush. 3 layer fabrics provide 20,000mm wind and water resistance with a Bio DWR coating for an eco friendly performance finish. With full seam sealing and waterproof...




usa.endeavorsnowboards.com


----------



## kimchijajonshim (Aug 19, 2007)

WTF no idea Endeavor made outerwear and that is a screaming value. Might order it to try fit and just... stash it as a backup even if it doesn't come out on top.


----------



## Craig64 (Jul 16, 2015)

kimchijajonshim said:


> *Wishlist:*
> 
> High-level waterproofing and breathability. Doesn't have to be Goretex, but in that tier. I'll ride in inclement weather and hike lines reasonably often.
> 3L preferred, I tend to pack light when traveling, but I'll consider high-end 2L.
> ...


You really answer your own question here???
Burton USA have looked after you with their outstanding warranty 5 times. This is your *Number 1* priority. You *"WREC**K"* gear (not sure how as I've never had any outerwear TNF/Roxy/Quicksilver/Burton etc fail me through rider mishaps or workmanship)...., so you need this *GOLDEN* Manufacturer backing when you buy outerwear.


----------



## Schoobang (Nov 4, 2019)

kimchijajonshim said:


> What're your height / weight / build specs, and how's the fit on these? They look $$$$ but promising. If they last me 4-5 seasons, I'll be happy.


I’m 190cm, 82kgs, normal/slim build and I wear tamok in large. Norröna, and Scandinavian brans in general, are quite long/tall/slim. Tamok is definitely more loose fitting than most of norrönas other stuff though. The fit in large is not so different from Burtons AK-bib in the same size, but I chose tamok because they felt more durable and sturdier. Also nicer details, and I have good experiences from other norröna outerwear.


----------



## Elevation212 (Apr 21, 2019)

kimchijajonshim said:


> WTF no idea Endeavor made outerwear and that is a screaming value. Might order it to try fit and just... stash it as a backup even if it doesn't come out on top.


ye my dude they also slash prices a few times a year, got mine on a eos deal for $125

went to them after my Burton AKs blew out over 80 days, definetly feel better built, if I had any small compliants

1. no cargo pockets, I don’t like riding with a back pack so I sometimes miss the extra storage

2. the vent zips aren’t YKK, though I’ve never had leaking problems,

But all up they are dry, breathable, tough as nails and a great price, I also really dig the vents on the outside of the thighs rather then crotch as it lets me blast cool air into my nethers when riding rather then just having my taint skank waft into my nose as I ride the flying couch


----------



## kimchijajonshim (Aug 19, 2007)

Craig64 said:


> You really answer your own question here???
> Burton USA have looked after you with their outstanding warranty 5 times. This is your *Number 1* priority. You *"WRECK"* gear (not sure how as I've never had any outerwear TNF/Roxy/Quicksilver/Burton etc fail me through rider mishaps or workmanship)...., so you need this *GOLDEN* Manufacturer backing when you buy outerwear.


The [AK] warranty is great, which is the main reason I kept buying them (those 5 failures are off 3 separate purchases). But at this point I'd prefer to just not deal with it. Partially because the overhead of sending them and being without a set of pants is annoying, and also from from a waste / resource consumption perspective.



Elevation212 said:


> ye my dude they also slash prices a few times a year, got mine on a eos deal for $125
> 
> went to them after my Burton AKs blew out over 80 days, definetly feel better built, if I had any small compliants
> 
> ...


Even though Endeavor's has a decent reputation, I'm generally skeptical of snowboard company outerwear (32? Lib Tech? LOL). But your experience 120+ days on these puts them in top contention... especially if you similarly wore out [ak] equivalents in ~80.

That pricing is bonkers. Even at full retail, that's like Montec / Dope level pricing, except to a well-respected endemic brand. They gotta be saving costs somewhere, I just wonder where.


----------



## Etienne (Apr 2, 2021)

kimchijajonshim said:


> What're your height / weight / build specs, and how's the fit on these? They look $$$$ but promising. If they last me 4-5 seasons, I'll be happy.
> 
> 
> Thanks, a few good Euro options I wasn't aware of. FW looks pretty promising. Good fit, good colors, not crazy $, available in the States.
> ...


Penguin is really interesting fit one reason: Dermizax EV. If you're not that specific on the fabric or it's breathability, then it's not worth the hassle of importing them indeed. And even if, you have options: Trew, Strafe... 

Candide C1 is apparently pretty robust too and most likely as baggy as it comes... Looks like a good no bullshit design.








C1 PANTS 3L BIB


This 3-layer seam-sealed pant is light in design, breathable and durable. It will keep you protected in the severe weather conditions whilst regulating body temperature on those steep climbs up and cool rides down. Candide’s most technical pant comes as a detachable BIB. It’s an optimal match...




www.candide.co


----------



## Elevation212 (Apr 21, 2019)

kimchijajonshim said:


> The [AK] warranty is great, which is the main reason I kept buying them (those 5 failures are off 3 separate purchases). But at this point I'd prefer to just not deal with it. Partially because the overhead of sending them and being without a set of pants is annoying, and also from from a waste / resource consumption perspective.
> 
> 
> Even though Endeavor's has a decent reputation, I'm generally skeptical of snowboard company outerwear (32? Lib Tech? LOL). But your experience 120+ days on these puts them in top contention... especially if you similarly wore out [ak] equivalents in ~80.
> ...


fuckin Canadians,who knows how there economy works


----------



## juhyou (Nov 6, 2019)

well, i had the Arcteryx stinger bibs for 7 ish years, they were superb bibs but a little thin, they lost thier waterproofness last season, was shocking, pooled water seeping in thru the seams , errrgh.. i called arcteryx . that old model was extinct so they offered new SV alpha model instead as a repalcement ( 7y =lifetime warranty from ARX) so i had to pay 300 bux for them, i sent the stingers back to repair but they said nope , the gore tex has gone.. so i took the alphas, it was going to cost me at least that anyays for another set. TREWTH bibs were what i wanted but no size for me , so i took the mack daddy arcteryx instead , ill say they are significantly more robust and the XXL have plenty of thigh accomodatition , like you my thighs arnt what ud see in a TUTU, maybe not quite as much as the the older stingers (which i loved) but enough nmot to be a concern , there are no pockets on the alphas which i hate so 
i still want a set of trewth bibs ,saw a set of CAPOW for sale which i htink ill pounce on but i give the alphas 10/10 for toughness for sure, wind also doesnt seem to exist to them they are seriosuly good duds and not just for models walking thru high streets.
rode them 30 days last year, not a scerik of a complaint......... except no pockets.........


----------



## tanscrazydaisy (Mar 11, 2013)

My burton bibs are less than $200... so far from high end... and on my 3rd season.


----------



## finboy (12 mo ago)

Elevation212 said:


> fuckin Canadians,who knows how there economy works


spoiler alert, it doesn’t really _cries in devalued canadain peso_


----------



## Craig64 (Jul 16, 2015)

tanscrazydaisy said:


> My burton bibs are less than $200... so far from high end... and on my 3rd season.


In Australia we have ascending in RRP for Burton Bibs: 
Reserve 15k 2L DRYRIDE, 
Reserve 2L GORE-TEX, 
[ak] Cyclic 2L GORE-TEX, 
Carbonate 3L GORE-TEX,
[ak] Freebird 3L GORE-TEX,
[ak] Tusk 3L GORE-TEX Pro.


----------



## Kevington (Feb 8, 2018)

I just got a pair of the Burton Reserve Gore-tex bibs. They seem very solid. Really burly material, thicker than AK cyclic for example and just as well constructed. Feels like the whole pant is made of the tougher material they put on the side panels of the Cyclic jacket. Also a bit looser and a less techy, articulated fit than AK. Fewer panels and seams which seems better from a durability point of view. Much cheaper than AK. I have the Treeline 3L jacket and I'd say the same about it too.


----------



## Craig64 (Jul 16, 2015)

Kevington said:


> I just got a pair of the Burton Reserve Gore-tex bibs. They seem very solid. Really burly material, thicker than AK cyclic for example and just as well constructed. Feels like the whole pant is made of the tougher material they put on the side panels of the Cyclic jacket. Also a bit looser and a less techy, articulated fit than AK. Fewer panels and seams which seems better from a durability point of view. Much cheaper than AK. I have the Treeline 3L jacket and I'd say the same about it too.


In Australia the Reserve GORE-TEX bibs are only $Au50 cheaper RRP than [ak] Cyclic bibs.


----------



## kimchijajonshim (Aug 19, 2007)

Got the 686 Dispatch bib in-hand. These are a top contender. They're indeed a lot more impressive than the schlubby amateur-ish marketing photos. Initial impressions is AK Cyclic is bit more polished, little more articulated fit, but Dispatch fits me a little better (bit more generous through seat and thighs), is built more rugged, and has a more thoughtful expansive feature set. Material is a little less supple, but "supple" AK fabrics got me 5 pants warranties / major repairs in 200-250 days on snow-- actually 6, I just remembered I sent in a set of Swash pants twice lol.

I really appreciate that they have some very thoughtful touches for backcountry usage. Full wrap kick panels for splitboarding. A true beacon pocket that eliminates need for to wear a harness (and will keep beacon 50+ cm from my phone in pant pocket). Heavily reinforced waist loops so I can keep random useful stuff handy on a carabiner (gloves, mini-compass, etc.). Dispatch is probably a little heavy duty to be my primary touring pants, but I'd feel comfortable bringing them as my only set of bibs on a mixed resort/touring trip.

Only real downer for me is the color ways are boring. I'll probably just go black because the drab "Rhino Gray" is depressingly drab. Couldn't find the "Orion Blue" in stock at the local, but will hunt for them. AK definitely has them beat on color pop. But whatever, function >>> fashion. Couple minor quibbles other than that (not stoked on the use of velcro on high-end outerwear, wish they had adjustable waist), but really minor.

90% sure I just keep these. I may try to nab a set of the Endeavors to check them out, or check out a few other options on this thread. But these are pretty darn good, if they were brighter I'd 100% sure keep them.


----------



## ju87 (Mar 9, 2011)

Patagonia Powslayer bibs have been pretty bombproof for me.


----------



## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

Trew jacket and pants have worked great
TREWth Bib PRIMO - Regular – TREW Gear


----------



## bshelford (Jan 23, 2015)

My vote is Burton AK. I have an AK jacket that is 10 years old and sees 25 days a year. It's still as water proof as day 1 and shows very little wear other than around the cuffs. I've been super happy with it and will buy another. My pants are Burton also but I haven't had them that long because I had a pair of Sessions pants that I loved and held up really well when I first got the jacket. I'm 6' 220 and a long time cyclist. Think sprinter, not climber. Broad shouldered and thick legged. The Burton stuff fits amazing.


----------

