# High Avi - Would u go?



## ARSENALFAN (Apr 16, 2012)

Cat ski trip heading out in the am. I don't like what I see and ivambterrified of avalanches. Danger Rating: Friday Alpine Treeline Below Treeline

4 - High
Very dangerous avalanche conditions. Travel in avalanche terrain not recommended.

4 - High
Very dangerous avalanche conditions. Travel in avalanche terrain not recommended.

3 - Considerable
Dangerous avalanche conditions. Careful snowpack evaluation, cautious route finding and conservative decision making essential.
Saturday
Sunday
Alpine
3 - Considerable
3 - Considerable
Treeline
3 - Considerable
3 - Considerable
Below Treeline
3 - Considerable
2 - Moderate
Confidence: Fair
Learn more about danger ratings
Storm Slabs
What Elevation Zone?Which Slopes?Chance of Avalanches?Expected Size?
New snow and wind will likely overload the upper snowpack on a variety of aspects but particularly those on lee aspects in exposed areas. Keep it conservative Friday as the snowpack adjusts to this new load.

Travel and Terrain Advice
Avoid all avalanche terrain during periods of heavy loading from new snow, wind, or rain.
With several weaknesses in the upper meter of the snowpack, the snowpack will require a few days to settle.
Good day to make conservative terrain choices.
Persistent Slabs
What Elevation Zone?Which Slopes?Chance of Avalanches?Expected Size?
The presence of buried weak layers increases the likelihood of larger avalanches that could release to a depth of a metre or even more. The distribution and reactivity of persistent weak layers is highly complex at the present time.

Travel and Terrain Advice
Avoid all avalanche terrain during periods of heavy loading from new snow, wind, or rain.
Avoid convexities or areas with a thin or variable snowpack.
Avoid areas with overhead hazard.
- See more at: South Columbia : Latest Bulletins : Bulletins : Canadian Avalanche Centre : avalanche.ca


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## linvillegorge (Jul 6, 2009)

What outfit are you going with? Those cat guides usually know their terrain really, really damn well and oftentimes even do some snowpack management in their zones. They know what they're doing. If you feel that uncomfortable, just straight up tell them that you want to stay out of avy terrain completely. They'll have some safe zones to ride that won't slide.


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## ARSENALFAN (Apr 16, 2012)

Thanks man. It was a big step for me to go in the first place and the thoughts of such horrible conditions bulls me out. I don't even care about the 400 bucks I spent. I guess I will head up and assess once I am there.


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## linvillegorge (Jul 6, 2009)

With that avy forecast, don't expect to be riding anything too exciting. But, like I said, they know their terrain and I bet you'll still have a shit ton of fun.


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## snowklinger (Aug 30, 2011)

One of the first things they told us at the intro to avy class was that conditions near perfection at an equal and relevant rate to avy danger. That is why there are books like "Staying Alive in Avalanche Terrain" by Bruce Tremper, your new Bible. 

Cat ski operations have surprisingly little to gain by getting you or themselves killed.

If you show up and the cat looks like something from a comedy movie and all the guides are drunk, maybe don't go.


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## timmytard (Mar 19, 2009)

Don't all cat/heli ski places @ least have the option of airbags?

You would think? I would.

I would go, in a heartbeat:thumbsup:



TT


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

snowklinger said:


> That is why there are books like "Staying Alive in Avalanche Terrain" by Bruce Tremper, your new Bible.


Saw this book quoted the hundreds time here. Seems to be really a bible...? If so, what makes it different to other avy books?


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## killclimbz (Aug 10, 2007)

timmytard said:


> Don't all cat/heli ski places @ least have the option of airbags?
> 
> You would think? I would.
> 
> ...


Man, too much emphasis on these things and too many people have now been killed relying on them. Sure use it if it is available but this in no way should EVER sway your decision. This is the first step in how you or your friends die.

High rating is scary. Out in those conditions in avalanche terrain and you will see recent slides are may even witness some. Which from a safe distance is really cool. It also means there is a lot of new snow. 

Snowklinger is right. The operator has little to gain by getting clients buried and a lot to lose. They know the terrain very well and should take you to some fun stuff. Listen to your guides and ride the lines you are directed too or talk about. Don't fucking punt and change it up last second on your ride because a line would be more fun. I would wager that a good majority of the accidents with a guided outfit are started this way. Don't deviate. Be disciplined. You'll have fun. 

Have to ask would you be questioning this if the rating was considerable? How about moderate? Most accidents actually happen in those ratings. Not high. 

Listen to your guides, do the drills for that worst case scenario, and have a good time. You should be bringing nothing back but epic smiles.


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## killclimbz (Aug 10, 2007)

And btw, good for you for reading the avy report. You should do that everyday. Even though you feel like you don't know much. You'll be surprised about how much you learn by reading it. That alone can help make you an asset out there.


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## killclimbz (Aug 10, 2007)

neni said:


> Saw this book quoted the hundreds time here. Seems to be really a bible...? If so, what makes it different to other avy books?


Bruce Tremper the author is one of the most respected guys in the world when it comes to avalanche science. Though that is not really why his book is so recommended. It is the fact that it is a fairly entertaining and easy book to read. He puts it out there in layman's terms and sprinkles a little humor in there. Just about everyone can understand it.

He has a new book out called Avalanche Essentials: A Step by Step System for Safety and Survival.

I think I am going to go pick it up today actually. I've read staying alive in Avalanche terrain maybe a dozen times now. It is a great way to refresh your memory of what you need to pay attention to in the field. I suspect this new book is just as awesome, maybe even more so.


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## West Baden Iron (Jan 31, 2013)

killclimbz said:


> Bruce Tremper the author is one of the most respected guys in the world when it comes to avalanche science. Though that is not really why his book is so recommended. It is the fact that it is a fairly entertaining and easy book to read. He puts it out there in layman's terms and sprinkles a little humor in there. Just about everyone can understand it.
> 
> He has a new book out called Avalanche Essentials: A Step by Step System for Safety and Survival.
> 
> I think I am going to go pick it up today actually. I've read staying alive in Avalanche terrain maybe a dozen times now. It is a great way to refresh your memory of what you need to pay attention to in the field. I suspect this new book is just as awesome, maybe even more so.


I will attest that it is an easy read. I picked it up after killclimbz recommended it. There is no more layman out there than me at this point, and he makes it easier to understand. When I read some of the avalanche reports now, I at least now what they are talking about.

I'll have to pick up the new one too.


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

Thanks Killc! The German ones I've read so far were very dry - hard to stay awake more than two pages :huh: 
Ordered both, also the new one, gonna have to improve my snow vocab anyway.


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## destroy (Dec 16, 2012)

I look at an airbag like a seatbelt. It's not the only thing you should rely on, but it could definitely save your life. There's that video where Bruce Tremper talks about airbags. He has one, and tends to wear it... but mostly only when he's concerned about the conditions - and even then he questions himself, asking "why not just stay home if it's questionable?". That said, I'm a little crazy and there's basically no weather that could keep me from driving. :hope:

Some of the biggest cruxes in snow science is the fact that the best terrain and the most fun times to ride (freshies!) are also the most dangerous.

Apparently his new book is meant to be used as a field guide that you can carry in your pack and use for reference. I started reading Staying Alive, watched a few films, and read most of the Canadian AST I course over the summer, and last week when I tagged along on an avalanche awareness tour in Whistler I already knew everything they had to say.


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## killclimbz (Aug 10, 2007)

Don't get me wrong. I have an airbag. I wear it any time I am traveling in avalanche terrain. Which is pretty much every time I go out snowboarding. Better to have a gun and not need it right? 

But, when people start talking about the airbag being the difference between them going out, riding a line, that sort of thing. That is a recipe for heartbreak.


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## destroy (Dec 16, 2012)

Exactly. 

I bought one too, and even though I've already spent entirely too much money on gear in my short snowboarding career I figured, "why not?" I'd rather spend the extra few hundred on something that could let me live another day, and maybe even save someone else's life. So I've loaded up and got an Avalung as well. Even sound knowledge and decision making could use a little backup every now and then.

Better smart than dead.


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## killclimbz (Aug 10, 2007)

I quit riding with the avalung after I got the airbag. Just too much shit. Doesn't help that I carry my slr on a chest harness. I do use the avalung when I don't have the bag. Such as for hut trips, where I have a different bag for that purpose.


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## killclimbz (Aug 10, 2007)

Which btw I think Arsenal is on his cat trip. I am thinking he is having a blast. Hope he got pics. Those Canadian cat ops seem to be the best in North America.


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## atr3yu (Feb 15, 2012)

killclimbz said:


> Which btw I think Arsenal is on his cat trip. I am thinking he is having a blast. Hope he got pics. Those Canadian cat ops seem to be the best in North America.


Yeah he was staying in my home town and riding with Vallaha Powder Cats...they are cool people up there I am sure he is having a blast. We got a 25cm dump their first day out so I am sure they are having a blast.


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## Oldman (Mar 7, 2012)

Having never done any BC myself, I am psyched to hear all about it as I believe it is his first such BIG BC adventure.

Hope he reports in with pics and rave reviews. 

A trip like this is definitely on this Oldman's bucket list and has to happen sooner than later.


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## aiidoneus (Apr 7, 2011)

Oldman said:


> Having never done any BC myself, I am psyched to hear all about it as I believe it is his first such BIG BC adventure.
> 
> Hope he reports in with pics and rave reviews.
> 
> A trip like this is definitely on this Oldman's bucket list and has to happen sooner than later.


No need for reviews, just do it.


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## snowklinger (Aug 30, 2011)

aiidoneus said:


> No need for reviews, just do it.


hush you!.........


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## jdang307 (Feb 6, 2011)

Hope he reports back soon as well. I am also terrified of slides and don't have the terrain nearby to even try to learn BC. The closest I'll get is a cat tour in Salt Lake probably. Not this year, maybe not next, but it'll be done soon.

I should check if Mammoth has any.


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## killclimbz (Aug 10, 2007)

He's doing Vahalla Powder cats? He may never report back, his mind is completely blown. 

That operation is probably one of the top five anywhere. The terrain and guides they have are some of the best around. 

He shouldn't have been worried about avalanche danger. He should of been worried about finding his brain after a day there...


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## TorpedoVegas (Dec 25, 2011)

He survived the trip just fine. I was with him and we had a great day, guides were awesome, the snow was deep and the lines were steep. We spent most of the time in the trees, some wind slab action out there for sure, but we rode a little bit of everything as far as terrain goes. Here's a pic i took of Arsenal trapped in the whiteroom that I couldn't stop laughing at.


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## t21 (Dec 29, 2010)

TorpedoVegas said:


> He survived the trip just fine. I was with him and we had a great day, guides were awesome, the snow was deep and the lines were steep. We spent most of the time in the trees, some wind slab action out there for sure, but we rode a little bit of everything as far as terrain goes. Here's a pic i took of Arsenal trapped in the whiteroom that I couldn't stop laughing at.


WOW! thank god for his helmet,i would not have spotted him:laugh: great pic!


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## jdang307 (Feb 6, 2011)

killclimbz said:


> He's doing Vahalla Powder cats? He may never report back, his mind is completely blown.
> 
> That operation is probably one of the top five anywhere. The terrain and guides they have are some of the best around.
> 
> He shouldn't have been worried about avalanche danger. He should of been worried about finding his brain after a day there...


Just checked it out. When I hit the lotto (or win a big case) I'm going. No ifs and buts.


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## killclimbz (Aug 10, 2007)

Yep, looks pretty god damn fun. Way to get after it guys. Hopefully arsenal was able to pick up the bits of his brain. Looks pretty mind blowing.


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

killclimbz said:


> Bruce Tremper the author is one of the most respected guys in the world when it comes to avalanche science. Though that is not really why his book is so recommended. It is the fact that it is a fairly entertaining and easy book to read. He puts it out there in layman's terms and sprinkles a little humor in there. Just about everyone can understand it.


Indeed, a great read. Love his easy memorable comparisons and the humor. Very different from the ones I knew. Funny to see it contains some pics/statistics from CH as well.
Thanks again, it has a fix place on my nightstand.


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## killclimbz (Aug 10, 2007)

Awesome! I just finished avalanche essentials. It is now the book I'll read every year. Everyone should read Staying Alive in Avalanche terrain. Once you hace some years behind you, Avalanche Essentials is the one to remind you of what the basics are to do to stay alive year in and year out. Just about perfect for the vet with an understanding of the basics.


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## ARSENALFAN (Apr 16, 2012)

Thanks for all the replies. I decided to go on the Cat Trip and had an excellent day in the mountains. Some crazy glade boarding due to the extreme hazard but it was still a heck of alot of fun. I appreciate the fact I didn't get raked over the coals for asking the question. I am just very apprehensive about the backcountry. Some people are simply content to ride resort and I happen to be one of them. Different strokes for different folks. I certainly respect those who are interested in backcountry boarding and take it seriously. All the best.


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## killclimbz (Aug 10, 2007)

Finally got your brain back in your skull? 

Glad you had fun. There is nothing better. BC riding taked a serious commitment from yourself if you want to do it for a lifetime. Discipline and patience are key. The test is a lifetime. I am still taking it.


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## kaka (Aug 28, 2012)

ARSENALFAN said:


> Thanks for all the replies. I decided to go on the Cat Trip and had an excellent day in the mountains. Some crazy glade boarding due to the extreme hazard but it was still a heck of alot of fun. I appreciate the fact I didn't get raked over the coals for asking the question. I am just very apprehensive about the backcountry. Some people are simply content to ride resort and I happen to be one of them. Different strokes for different folks. I certainly respect those who are interested in backcountry boarding and take it seriously. All the best.


How do you think the conditions would be for cat boarding after not having snow for almost 2 weeks? I will likely be in Nelson next week, around this time, and if it's still dry, wanted to contemplate doing a cat day with 2 others.


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## ARSENALFAN (Apr 16, 2012)

Send a pm to ATR3YU who posted earlier. He lives in Nelson and has a bead on what is going on. My thoughts are that it will still be good as they have alot of terrain, but he will know better. Cheers.


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## atr3yu (Feb 15, 2012)

ARSENALFAN said:


> Send a pm to ATR3YU who posted earlier. He lives in Nelson and has a bead on what is going on. My thoughts are that it will still be good as they have alot of terrain, but he will know better. Cheers.


Yes, feel free to pm me if you want and I can answer pretty much anything about Nelson and the sorrunding area. I have a crew up at Baldface right now for a 4 day stay so I should a detailed snow report soon. I can tell you that the local hill Whitewater is currently destroyed.


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## killclimbz (Aug 10, 2007)

As long as it hasn't been terribly warm, I got to think there are quality north facing shots that are holding great snow. atr3yu is definitely your man.


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## kaka (Aug 28, 2012)

atr3yu said:


> Yes, feel free to pm me if you want and I can answer pretty much anything about Nelson and the sorrunding area. I have a crew up at Baldface right now for a 4 day stay so I should a detailed snow report soon. I can tell you that the local hill Whitewater is currently destroyed.


Unfortunately I think all of the interior is destroyed. Our plan to chase the snow in the region seems totally depressing right now. I was just thinking that Wildhorse, Big Red Cats or even Valhalla might be good to go up with for a day, but not if we are going to ride crusty shit.


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## atr3yu (Feb 15, 2012)

kaka said:


> Unfortunately I think all of the interior is destroyed. Our plan to chase the snow in the region seems totally depressing right now. I was just thinking that Wildhorse, Big Red Cats or even Valhalla might be good to go up with for a day, but not if we are going to ride crusty shit.


Well, the good news is even at Whitewater there is still no crusty shit. It has stayed cold enough up there that there has not been a thaw and freeze. I rode all facing aspects on Sunday and the little fresh snow I did find was still good. I would stay off Big Red as they are lower alpine for sure so the possibility is there for thaw and freeze. Valhalla is probably you best bet I would think....Wildhorse is like 25min from my house, yet I know very little about it for some reason. If Wildhorse takes you above the elevation of the Summit chair at Whitewater I would say it could be epic as I know the mountains that they use, just not sure how high up they go exactly.


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## Brainwashed (Nov 28, 2012)

TorpedoVegas said:


> He survived the trip just fine. I was with him and we had a great day, guides were awesome, the snow was deep and the lines were steep. We spent most of the time in the trees, some wind slab action out there for sure, but we rode a little bit of everything as far as terrain goes. Here's a pic i took of Arsenal trapped in the whiteroom that I couldn't stop laughing at.


Holy crap.... that picture is amazing!


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## kaka (Aug 28, 2012)

atr3yu said:


> Well, the good news is even at Whitewater there is still no crusty shit. It has stayed cold enough up there that there has not been a thaw and freeze. I rode all facing aspects on Sunday and the little fresh snow I did find was still good. I would stay off Big Red as they are lower alpine for sure so the possibility is there for thaw and freeze. Valhalla is probably you best bet I would think....Wildhorse is like 25min from my house, yet I know very little about it for some reason. If Wildhorse takes you above the elevation of the Summit chair at Whitewater I would say it could be epic as I know the mountains that they use, just not sure how high up they go exactly.


much appreciated, I will look into base elevation and keep an eye on temps. Hopefully there is a dump early next week though.


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