# EST VS REGULAR BINDINGS/BOARD. BURTON vs the world



## f00bar

The whole purpose of the disc is to transfer the power to the binding and the binding to the board however the binding manufacturer wants. No binding generates its power through the mounting bolts.

And airlines fly some planes across the ocean relying on only 2 engines. I think the stakes are a bit higher if they lose one than if your binding somehow comes loose. You may want to email Burton though and tell them they may have over looked something.


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## SGboarder

frankyfc said:


> Hi.
> Not new to snowboarding... long time boarder. But pretty new to tech and getting into gear... mostly cos finally due new stuff and have some cash to do so.
> 
> Never ridden an EST binding/board...
> 
> I know a lot of people say its better board feel.


Definitely a different feel. Some like some don't. A few Burton team riders use the regular reflex binding on the Burton channel boards.
One feature that is almost universally loved and only on EST (but not all EST models!) the Hinge which kind lets the boot roll sideways. Super good for loading into ollies etc.

Issue with EST bindings is that it locks you into Burton or Endeavor boards when expanding the quiver unless you also get new bindings. Especially when traveling it can be nice to take few bindings than boards and EST can limit your flexibility there.



frankyfc said:


> Bit concerned regarding only 2 contact points and my pal says that means when you turn hard saw on the heel side, the toes of the binding pull up off the board before you get response... making it have worse response than a normal binding? And vice versa on a toeside.
> Also is one screw loosens, you're "screwed".


The failure rate is super low. There used to be quite a few problems reported on the first generation of the channel. Not clear whether those were really gear issues or user mistakes. In any case Burton improved the hardware a few years ago and by all accounts it works great now. The way the slider grips the channel basically makes it impossible to move when tightened (it 'grips' the inside of the channel/underside of the topsheet) and the screw have actually better grip than regular binding bolts.

And your buddy is clueless. For most plastic baseplate bindings the toe part will rise during a heel side turn (and the heel part during a toe side turn). That doesn't affect reaction/response because in a heel side turn the board tilts as it is pushed down at the heel edge and pulled up in the center (where the bindings attach). Even a baseplate that doesn't flex has no effect on the toe edge part of the board because it is not attached to it.



f00bar said:


> The whole purpose of the disc is to transfer the power to the binding and the binding to the board however the binding manufacturer wants. No binding generates its power through the mounting bolts.
> 
> And airlines fly some planes across the ocean relying on only 2 engines. I think the stakes are a bit higher if they lose one than if your binding somehow comes loose. You may want to email Burton though and tell them they may have over looked something.


That's not quite how the mechanics work: The bolts absolutely matter. But totally agree with the 'conclusion'.


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## Nivek

It has its upsides and downsides. EST and Channel is by the the best board feel you can get. EST bindings do lock you into now three brands. Including Signal now. And bolts come loose. They just do. You should be checking your shit though. I've never had an issue on channel outside of a demo, and now I always double check a Burton demo before I take it out unless I know the dude setting me up, or more often I just do set myself up. You also get unhindered stance options. Which is good and bad. On one hand you won't ever have to choose between your stance width and edge centering, but on the other if you have very particular stance measurements they're not as easy to set every time.



I like channel. But it's probably never going to be a deciding factor for me. That said, if I decide on something channel, I'm going to put EST bindings on it.


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## GDimac

Nivek said:


> It has its upsides and downsides. EST and Channel is by the the best board feel you can get. EST bindings do lock you into now three brands. Including Signal now. And bolts come loose. They just do. You should be checking your shit though. I've never had an issue on channel outside of a demo, and now I always double check a Burton demo before I take it out unless I know the dude setting me up, or more often I just do set myself up. You also get unhindered stance options. Which is good and bad. On one hand you won't ever have to choose between your stance width and edge centering, but on the other if you have very particular stance measurements they're not as easy to set every time.
> 
> 
> 
> I like channel. But it's probably never going to be a deciding factor for me. That said, if I decide on something channel, I'm going to put EST bindings on it.


Def agree with the bolts, checking your shii regularly etc. All true with EST usage.

I'm the opposite, I prefer the reflex better. I personally find better response with it, and prefer it over the "more board feel" of EST.


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## Rip154

EST bindings (and other bindings) have that one design flaw, which makes bolts unscrew (bigger issue with old EST) and add hingepoints mostly noticed in hard heelside turns, as mentioned before.

"The Hinge" tech made this flaw less noticable and partly fixed the problem for most users. 

When a board with EST bindings flex, the heelloop doesn't flex with the board, and becomes like a support beam to the force being transferred through the board, a heelloop is usually pretty stiff. The binding bends at toeside but stays put at heelside and you've got rotation going on with every flex, which loosens the screws and can be felt as a hingepoint. "The Hinge" enables the board and binding to flex more before this happens. Now most won't notice the problem, but it's still around.

The problem is still around with regular bindings with discs, but much less noticable with minidisc and reflex. Here the disc or the binding itself becomes the hingepoint, sometimes back to the heelloop again, but you don't have the same problem with unscrewing here as with old stiff bindingplates with big discs. To clarify, EST has the largest travel for unscrewing of any bindings, but "The Hinge" made it less of a problem.

Theres the physics behind it, but the feel you have to figure out yourself.

If you have boots that can transfer the boardfeel and don't need alot of padding from the binding, EST could be great for you.


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## sush1

The thing that I worry about with EST is that they allow the binding to move forward and backward so easily (towards the heel and toe edge). So as you're torquing them around riding I worry that it is putting more force on the bolts in extra directions, as 4 hole bindings can't slide forward and back generally. I have had EST boards/bindings before and not had a problem with them really, but it's always in the back of my mind that they might be less stuck on. If you use reflex or a minidisc on a channel board the bolts can only slide from tail to nose and not from edge to edge, which seems like less can go wrong to me. When I put my 4x4 bindings on my channel board it feels very secure, when I put EST bindings on it's always in the back of my mind that I shouldn't put much pressure on the bindings.

I'm trying to decide if I should get EST bindings again for my channel board or just get regular ones so I can switch them around with my other board. I am going to get burtons either way cartel, malavita or genesis. With my stance width I know reflex will be ok on my other board.

Any advice?


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## tanscrazydaisy

Rip154 said:


> EST bindings (and other bindings) have that one design flaw, which makes bolts unscrew (bigger issue with old EST) and add hingepoints mostly noticed in hard heelside turns, as mentioned before.
> 
> "The Hinge" tech made this flaw less noticable and partly fixed the problem for most users.
> 
> When a board with EST bindings flex, the heelloop doesn't flex with the board, and becomes like a support beam to the force being transferred through the board, a heelloop is usually pretty stiff. The binding bends at toeside but stays put at heelside and you've got rotation going on with every flex, which loosens the screws and can be felt as a hingepoint. "The Hinge" enables the board and binding to flex more before this happens. Now most won't notice the problem, but it's still around.
> 
> The problem is still around with regular bindings with discs, but much less noticable with minidisc and reflex. Here the disc or the binding itself becomes the hingepoint, sometimes back to the heelloop again, but you don't have the same problem with unscrewing here as with old stiff bindingplates with big discs. To clarify, EST has the largest travel for unscrewing of any bindings, but "The Hinge" made it less of a problem.
> 
> Theres the physics behind it, but the feel you have to figure out yourself.
> 
> If you have boots that can transfer the boardfeel and don't need alot of padding from the binding, EST could be great for you.


When subject screws to vibrations, they tend to loosen. That's what the blue loctite is for that you see on binding screws. That's why there is a nylon insert in the burton acrew 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk


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## Rip154

tanscrazydaisy said:


> When subject screws to vibrations, they tend to loosen. That's what the blue loctite is for that you see on binding screws. That's why there is a nylon insert in the burton acrew
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk


Ye, nice to have a tube of that stuff too, but wasn't enough for first version EST.


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## Kodjosuprem

Does the channel system implies less response when carving? (with EST or reflex) Im quite tall and heavy with large feet. (

I would like a wide Burton custom board but i'm efraid of my binding lift up when turning.


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## SGboarder

Kodjosuprem said:


> Does the channel system implies less response when carving? .


No it does not. 



Kodjosuprem said:


> I would like a wide Burton custom board but i'm efraid of my binding lift up when turning.


The Binding lifting has no negative effect on turning (might actually be a good thing/help with turning).


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## Tycho

I love the stance options EST gives you, that is the primary win for me. Getting the boot/binding perfectly centered on the board and my stance width just right makes for a good deal more comfort than traditional insert packs. I do find my EST bindings come loose more often than my regular bindings, but not so much as to be a problem. Like others have said you just need to regularly check it. I've never had one just completely back off and become dangerous, just I'll notice it a little loose and then crank back it down. EST you can crank it as hard as you want as you are not pulling up insert packs by doing so.

I do have a question to add as I've never tried regular bindings on a EST board, specifically Now bindings. I was looking into getting a pair of Now's and possibly putting them on an EST board. Is the experience any different than when secured with insert packs or do they feel about the same?


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## GDimac

Tycho said:


> I love the stance options EST gives you, that is the primary win for me. Getting the boot/binding perfectly centered on the board and my stance width just right makes for a good deal more comfort than traditional insert packs. I do find my EST bindings come loose more often than my regular bindings, but not so much as to be a problem. Like others have said you just need to regularly check it. I've never had one just completely back off and become dangerous, just I'll notice it a little loose and then crank back it down. EST you can crank it as hard as you want as you are not pulling up insert packs by doing so.
> 
> I do have a question to add as I've never tried regular bindings on a EST board, specifically Now bindings. I was looking into getting a pair of Now's and possibly putting them on an EST board. Is the experience any different than when secured with insert packs or do they feel about the same?


I've used both EST and Reflex/reg 4x4 binders on my Burton decks, and I personally prefer the feel more with the latter. Ya, you do get great board feel with EST (my Genesis EST, to be specific) but I'd still rather have my Atlas' on instead as I feel I get more response from it than the Genesis. I also prefer my Genesis X re:flex binders on my channel boards/CustomX specifically (but tbf, it is a bit more of a responsive binding compared to the regular Genesis, which is what I prefer). 

End of the day, it is preference and to me regular binders/non-EST feels more responsive for me, so I prefer to go with that if I had the option. But you also do get great board feel with EST. Hope that helps a little.


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## F1EA

Tycho said:


> I love the stance options EST gives you, that is the primary win for me. Getting the boot/binding perfectly centered on the board and my stance width just right makes for a good deal more comfort than traditional insert packs. I do find my EST bindings come loose more often than my regular bindings, but not so much as to be a problem. Like others have said you just need to regularly check it. I've never had one just completely back off and become dangerous, just I'll notice it a little loose and then crank back it down. EST you can crank it as hard as you want as you are not pulling up insert packs by doing so.
> 
> I do have a question to add as I've never tried regular bindings on a EST board, specifically Now bindings. I was looking into getting a pair of Now's and possibly putting them on an EST board. Is the experience any different than when secured with insert packs or do they feel about the same?


No difference. No issues. I ride my Drives and Pilots on channel boards all the time.

Now's are pretty damp so they dont vibrate as much and they have a little rubber pad on the mounting disc. Metal baseplates and Flux I'd recommend getting Burton bolts (nylon strip), because they are not very damp. But Reflex and Now you can use the bolts they come with.

Mini disc and Reflex bindings actually have MORE adjustability and stance options than EST..... more angles and you can move them around a wider range as the mounting holes are closer and inside the binding.


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## Tycho

GDimac said:


> I've used both EST and Reflex/reg 4x4 binders on my Burton decks, and I personally prefer the feel more with the latter. Ya, you do get great board feel with EST (my Genesis EST, to be specific) but I'd still rather have my Atlas' on instead as I feel I get more response from it than the Genesis. I also prefer my Genesis X re:flex binders on my channel boards/CustomX specifically (but tbf, it is a bit more of a responsive binding compared to the regular Genesis, which is what I prefer).
> 
> End of the day, it is preference and to me regular binders/non-EST feels more responsive for me, so I prefer to go with that if I had the option. But you also do get great board feel with EST. Hope that helps a little.





F1EA said:


> No difference. No issues. I ride my Drives and Pilots on channel boards all the time.
> 
> Now's are pretty damp so they dont vibrate as much and they have a little rubber pad on the mounting disc. Metal baseplates and Flux I'd recommend getting Burton bolts (nylon strip), because they are not very damp. But Reflex and Now you can use the bolts they come with.
> 
> Mini disc and Reflex bindings actually have MORE adjustability and stance options than EST..... more angles and you can move them around a wider range as the mounting holes are closer and inside the binding.



Excellent information. Thanks!


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## F1EA

Tycho said:


> Excellent information. Thanks!


By the way, new Now's with plastic base do not come with the channel disc. I think new Drives do, but the softer ones don't. The channel discs are either available for free or to buy. 

My older drives and Pilots both came with the channel disc, so make sure you check/confirm when you buy.


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