# Small Boot Snowboarders Support Group



## jtg (Dec 11, 2012)

After realizing that I've apparently overlooked an important sizing element in snowboarding all this time, waist width, I've come to the realization that this industry is not made for dudes with size 7-7.5 feet.

Apparently just about everyone has a foot length that is significantly larger than the waist width of their snowboard (though not necessarily overhanging at the inserts with angles - and talking about feet only, not boots). This isn't the case for 7 feet. Some boards are 247mm, but a size 7 is 250mm. For comparison, a size 9.5 is 267mm, way wider than even most wide boards at the waist yet fits on a normal width board.

That has to make for some rather significant mechanical differences, so now I'm curious what it feels like snowboarding on something that fits. The problem is almost all of the boards with less than 240mm waists, which you'd need to get comparable leverage, are either super short toy boards or wet noodle women's boards. 

My powder boards are 253mm at the waist :blink: Wider for powder is probably not that bad, but I'm guessing at least a 247 or something will make me feel like I was on a boat before.

What do the other 7s ride? Or do you just accept that you have to lay in to everything harder than everybody else? What are the longer, narrow, stiffer boards?

TRS 148N is 238mm, but I'd like something a bit longer. So far, that's all I can really find.

Yes Hel is 239, but only 146, which is too tiny.

The other option is custom building a Prior, which I'm way too cheap to pay for.


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## ETM (Aug 11, 2009)

Heaps of small time guys can build you a custom ride at a good price. I could but Im too far away.
Google divide rides. He builds really nice boards out of canada.


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## ETM (Aug 11, 2009)

Ps go small with your sidecut radius. 6m or so.
That will let you have a narrow waist but keep the tips relatively wide


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## ETM (Aug 11, 2009)

https://m.facebook.com/profile.php?id=340384672727751&_rdr


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## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

Been a member for a long time. Gotz men's 7 and could even go down to a 6.5. Not only boards ... but boots and for me...WEIGHT at 180#...are also issues. My boots are women 32 Focus Boa size 8 and 7.5, and women's K2 Contour size 8. 

Ime the perfect waist width would be 24.3-5 and iirc my main stable ranges form 24.3 to 26. The 26 is a bear but has been mitigated via diy 20mm riser plates.

list of the quiver and past favs for width

Option women's Kendra Starr camber 155 ...directional twin
Option women's Trinity camber 158...women's version of the Vinson
Option NorthShore camber pintail 161/2?...abit wide but doable...may split
Gnu Billy Goat c2btx split 159
Charlie Slasher 164...way too wide but does alright with diy 20mm riser

Gnu old cambered b-nice 154...sadly snapped the tail...fun board

Current potentials
Gnu Billy Goat 156...btw Temple also has small feet...iirc 8
Gnu Rider's Choice 154
Gnu Lady's Choice 154
Gnu Bpro 155
Jaimie Lynn 157? c3

I also drooled over some Venture boards


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## jtg (Dec 11, 2012)

Hmm, even 243 isn't comparable to what normal feet get on a normal board for leverage, though probably a big improvement. 9.5 feet get an extra 22mm on a 253 board, and a 7 would get just 7mm on a 243, and probably back to negative at the inserts with angles factored in. 

@ETM: yeah, can't find any sidecut that aggressive, can barely find suitable boards at all. Unless you mean custom specs. 

WTF do they ride in Japan? They must have boards that don't land over here.


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## ETM (Aug 11, 2009)

jtg said:


> Hmm, even 243 isn't comparable to what normal feet get on a normal board for leverage, though probably a big improvement. 9.5 feet get an extra 13mm on a 253 board, and a 7 would get just 1mm on a 243, and back to negative at the inserts with angles factored in.
> 
> @ETM: yeah, can't find any sidecut that aggressive, can barely find suitable boards at all. Unless you mean custom specs.
> 
> WTF do they ride in Japan? They must have boards that don't land over here.


Im talking about a custom shape. Divide can do it for you easily.
I feel your pain too. I built some super wide boards and they were so hard to edge-lack of leverage, you really need the right width board to enjoy snowboarding.
Hit him up on facebook or email about a custom shape, tell him Goz sent you ;-)


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## ETM (Aug 11, 2009)

And what do they ride in japan? Lots of shit that the western world would say is "wrong".
Boards above head height etc. It truely is another world


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## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

ETM said:


> And what do they ride in japan? Lots of shit that the western world would say is "wrong".
> Boards above head height etc. It truely is another world


pics please...tiny Asians with big ass samuri boards

and hook me up...I'm asian wit small feet


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

Hi JTG,

How much do you weigh?

Please measure your foot using this method:

Kick your heel (barefoot please, no socks) back against a wall. Mark the floor exactly at the tip of your toe (the one that sticks out furthest - which toe this is will vary by rider). Measure from the mark on the floor to the wall. That is your foot length and is the only measurement that you will want to use. Measure in centimeters if possible, but if not, take inches and multiply by 2.54 (example: an 11.25 inch foot x 2.54 = 28.57 centimeters).


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## ETM (Aug 11, 2009)




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## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

^ Holy Snoz

Is that one of your creations?


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## ETM (Aug 11, 2009)

Nope my biggest is 180 and only comes up to my nose.


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## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

I can't even imagine the pow in which to use that thing....ya fricking sneeze and u be in da white room.


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## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

Wiredsport said:


> Hi JTG,
> 
> How much do you weigh?
> 
> ...


Wired...just wondering?

My foot is 23.5 cm, and I'm 5'6" and 180#, going into 12th year at Baker and a geezerly 55 yo all mtn...(no park)....any suggestions?


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## timmytard (Mar 19, 2009)

I've ridden chic boards before too

Took an Option Bella 54 out as a spare on opening day 2 years ago.

Ended up trying it first in the morning, only planned on doing a run or two just to try it out.

Rode it all day:laugh: Had so much fun, came back the next day & rode it again.

JTG, I have another Bella in a 49. Mint condition it's got Burton CFX bindings on it. I had CFX's before & they're sweet.

I'm up in Van, so not too far if you're interested?

TT


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## Cr0_Reps_Smit (Jun 27, 2009)

I have size 8 boats so not quite as small as yours but still pretty small. I never really noticed much of an issue with leverage or anything but I also don't much attention to dimensions, usually just ride whatever they give me hah.


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## jtg (Dec 11, 2012)

Wiredsport said:


> Hi JTG,
> 
> How much do you weigh?
> 
> ...


145, rear foot 248mm, front foot 250mm.

I guess this is not technically a Size 7, but K2 said it was last year. On the 2013 Thraxis the box says 7 US, 6 UK, 39.5 EU, 25cm. 

Which doesn't match up with this handy conversion chart that others might find useful, so I guess manufacturers kind of make things up a bit:










Anyway, I just measured some of my boards at the inserts and they are 252mm, 255mm, 265mm (waists: 247, 247, 253). I think the one I learned on was even wider. I went from that to an Option Mirror with a 245 waist and it blew my mind, but I just thought that was mostly because it was shorter.

So, Wiredsport, what would you say is the ideal width for those dimensions? I'm just estimating based on a 9.5 foot on a 253 waist board, which is roughly 14mm, meaning the same for me at 250mm foot would require 236, give or take a couple mm for different sidecuts or mtx etc. Does that math make sense? I am measuring from underneath the board btw, to account for the bevel.

I don't really like rocker boards, I like the stability of camber, but shorter camber boards are way too much work in powder, especially at lower speeds between trees etc. I think I've found rocker/camber/rocker styles to work out the best for the riding I do. The TRS XC2 148N probably wouldn't be too bad, but I think I'd like RCR given the choice. And since the tips are lifted in RCR, I probably need to size up a bit. 



timmytard said:


> I've ridden chic boards before too
> 
> Took an Option Bella 54 out as a spare on opening day 2 years ago.
> 
> ...


I might hit you up when I go to whistler just to give it a run, sounds like it will submarine in powder though, so I'm not sure.



Cr0_Reps_Smit said:


> I have size 8 boats so not quite as small as yours but still pretty small. I never really noticed much of an issue with leverage or anything but I also don't much attention to dimensions, usually just ride whatever they give me hah.


If you have a narrower board - some come in 247ish without being called "narrow" specifically - a size 8 (254mm) would give you pretty close. Or it could just be that you've never known what you've been missing out on. It's not like I can't snowboard - plenty of small feet guys can charge hard on bigger boards, but I guess they're less agile than what a larger foot would be on the same board, and lay in to things harder without knowing it.



ETM, does divide have an email address? I don't have FB. Also, any idea what that would cost? I generally like boards cheap enough that I don't have to baby them, would be kind of hesitant to get a custom build, but I'd consider it.


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## ETM (Aug 11, 2009)

[email protected]


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## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

Signal OG 155 waist 24.6, Yes TDF 157N waist 24.8, Nitro Team 155 waist 24.8, Salomon Time Machine 156 waist 24.8, K2 TurboDream 159 waist 24.9, Arbor A-Frame 159 waist 24.9, Ride Berzerker 158 waist 24.8.

Really with that size boot and properly fit bindings, anything below 25.0 will be fine. And if you're that worried about it, get something like NOW's or Flow to compensate for your lack of mechanical leverage and boards that are mostly rocker as that lessens the amount of effort needed to keep a board on edge in the first place.


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## jtg (Dec 11, 2012)

Those are all way wider than what we are talking about. Like I said, I have a couple boards under 250mm, including two 247, so I do know how it rides.

You say it would ride fine, but consider that you wear a size 9 in flow boots (going by your AS reviews), which is 270mm. You telling me to ride a 247mm board would be the same as you riding a skunk ape wide 268mm. Are you claiming that there isn't much difference between you riding a super wide board like that, and a normal width board?

Yeah, you can ride it, but surely you lose some agility. Most dudes on the bubble of wide boards will do whatever they can to avoid having one, because it's a significant difference.


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## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

I definitely get what you're saying. And from the industries point of view, we sell 10 times the number of 13's than we do 7's and the downside to riding a board too narrow is drag. The downside to riding a board too wide is diminished leverage. One instantly puts you down, the other just makes it harder. Without access to wides the bigfoots are forced into risers or ski's. You're still capable of actually snowboarding.


The very fact you're even considering the Skate Narrow makes me think you aren't that big. How much do you weigh? You'll notice all the decks I mentioned are 55 or larger. If you're a lighter guy then as the size shrinks so will the waist.

And for a time a couple brands made a few "asia" oriented decks with narrower waists than average. They don't sell.


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## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

Nivek said:


> The very fact you're even considering the Skate Narrow makes me think you aren't that big. How much do you weigh?
> 
> You'll notice all the decks I mentioned are 55 or larger. If you're a lighter guy then as the size shrinks so will the waist.


Also wondered how much jtg weighs...my weight can easily decamber a 55 and engage the sidecut quicker.

Wonder back to what ETM noted about radius...having a board with a 6 radius sidecut might be interesting to ride...wonder if its hooky...meaning that it might be a problem to release the edge when transitioning? Seems to me that with a 6 radius you want a cambered board...so as to pop to the next edge.


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## ShredLife (Feb 6, 2010)

this shit doesn't matter. go ride.


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## kosmoz (Dec 27, 2013)

And now I don't know what to blame for lack of playfullness in my mans board compared to sabotage: it's mid wide width (+6mm over sabotage), it's sidecut or stiffness


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## ETM (Aug 11, 2009)

wrathfuldeity said:


> Also wondered how much jtg weighs...my weight can easily decamber a 55 and engage the sidecut quicker.
> 
> Wonder back to what ETM noted about radius...having a board with a 6 radius sidecut might be interesting to ride...wonder if its hooky...meaning that it might be a problem to release the edge when transitioning? Seems to me that with a 6 radius you want a cambered board...so as to pop to the next edge.


It will be fine. I havent ridden a 6m radius but I have ridden 18,16,14,12,10 and 8m radii so I have a fair idea how a 6 would go.
The thing the short radius will do for you small hoofed crew is allow an appropriate width but still maintain a wide nose and tail for increased surface area = pow performance.


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## ETM (Aug 11, 2009)

SGboarder said:


> That chart looks like it is for women's shoe sizes.


Agree. Its one size out


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

Hi guys,

The sizes in the image below are the sizes that you will find printed in snowboard boots. The old rule was take the two cm #'s and add them up for the US show size. Example: 27 cm (which is the same as mondopoint). 2 + 7 = 9 US . This works up to size 11.5.


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

Hi guys,

Stoked to hear from you all on this. 

To frame the issue a bit and as you guys already know, Snowboarding is stupid fun even if you are not on the textbook perfect gear. You can ride, you can rip, you can shred, you can lacerate. You can slide on snow on most anything and it will be fun. Ready for the _but_?

_But_ there is a difference between do-able and awesome. All snowboard designers design their boards so that the _design size _rider (that is the rider at the dead middle of the size range for any given size in any given model) *has barefoot overhang *of both the toe and heel edges at all normal stance widths and angles. I point this out because that is how snowboards work best. Too much overhang and they work worse. No overhang and they work much worse. 

When looking for a new board most of us are looking for perfect. The tips we give on width (especially for small footed riders - where it matters the most) are given for those people who are looking for the best possible fit, not just something that will work. We completely get the _grab it and ride it _mentality and all of this info will not appeal to or be useful for those guys. We respect that.

Also, this makes little or no difference for pow only boards. Close is good enough there as pow is so compliant that overhang leverage is much less important to surf those epic days.

Again, I would like to stress the unimportance of waist width. Toss that info out. Focus only on width at the inserts that you use. Our suggestions for the small footed. Get as close to an overhang situation as your foot size allows. Do not hesitate to ride a female specific board. Consider custom. Stand barefoot at your stance width and angles on every board at your local snow show - where a mask if you need to, maybe one of those beardy things . If overhang is not achievable at your foot size, get as close as possible. At that point every mm matters. Riders with very small feet need to double down on binding support and boot support. You can not afford any slop in the system.

JTG, you are in a better situation than many because you are light. The ideal for you would be 24 to 24.5 at the inserts that you use (not waist). As I have mentioned before, no one designs stock men's boards for size 7. This will be a series of small compromises.


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## kosmoz (Dec 27, 2013)

and there is zero info online about width at the inserts, right?


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## jtg (Dec 11, 2012)

SGboarder said:


> That chart looks like it is for women's shoe sizes.


Hah, good call. That makes more sense. Though that makes the comparison even worse, size 9 mens are actually like 278, riding 253mm boards! 




Wiredsport said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> Stoked to hear from you all on this.
> 
> ...


Yeah the problem is nobody publishes width at inserts, so best I can do is go by waist and scale relative to other examples.



wrathfuldeity said:


> Also wondered how much jtg weighs...my weight can easily decamber a 55 and engage the sidecut quicker.


Only 145, so my situation isn't as bad as yours, but there still seems to be nothing that works. It's as if there is a weird gap in sizing here. Take an aggressive ladies board like the ride farah for example, the 153 is 243mm at the waist and the weight range is 115-155. According to wiredsport, we would ideally want 240-245 at the _inserts_, meaing that one won't even be close. But go down to the 144 on the same board and the waist drops to 238, and that board is built for a 85lb girl. :dizzy:

148N TRS is the only board I can find that might be even somewhat close at 238mm, but that's going to be a bad time in powder for me and really bad time for you. Yes Hel looks like a decent candidate but would be a compromise due to width - the 152 is 242mm at the waist, 149 is 241mm, does have lifted nose though. Bonus points for the 2015 model not being overly girly looking.


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

> Yeah the problem is nobody publishes width at inserts, so best I can do is go by waist and scale relative to other examples.


True. To make that worse, many of the waist numbers that are published are off (many are off by as much as a cm in a situation where mm matter). Fortunately you are in WA state. I would highly recommend visiting your local shops and standing on a bunch of boards. You will likely be pretty surprised by what you find.


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

jtg said:


> Take an aggressive ladies board like the ride farah for example, the 153 is 243mm at the waist and the weight range is 115-155. According to wiredsport, we would ideally want 240-245 at the _inserts_, meaing that one won't even be close.


By chance, I've that board at hand . It's 250mm at the mid insert (the 156 Mothership with 245mm ww has 255mm at mid insert) both front and hind.
My feet are 24cm. Both boards fit my feet well IMO. 

I've tried boards with 253 up to 260mm ww and yes, they feel boatish. I've also tried one with 234mm and I couldn't fix my bindings in my usual angles cos the overhang would have been too much; too narrow IMO.

The 153 Farah with size 8.5 women's boots, so you can judge if that's close enough:
Front +21°
















Hind, +9°


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## jtg (Dec 11, 2012)

neni said:


> By chance, I've that board at hand . It's 250mm at the mid insert (the 156 Mothership with 245mm ww has 255mm at mid insert) both front and hind.
> My feet are 24cm. Both boards fit my feet well IMO.
> 
> I've tried boards with 253 up to 260mm ww and yes, they feel boatish. I've also tried one with 234mm and I couldn't fix my bindings in my usual angles cos the overhang would have been too much; too narrow IMO.
> ...


I think, like most of us, you're just used to more room. Most riders are much closer to the edge than that. Your forward stance might also change the equation too though. 250mm at the insert means that on my 25cm foot, anything other than 0 degree angles is no longer reaching the end, let alone barefoot overhanging like wiredsport says. Yours is still going to be a full 1cm away at 0 degrees.

To put in to perspective, you riding that board (when not surfing pow) at 24.3ww with 24cm feet (US mens 6) would be comparable to a guy with size 8.5 (26.5cm) boots riding a skunk ape wide 268cm board.

Edit: Again, nobody is saying you can't ride that or shouldn't ride that, I'm just pointing out that we were obviously conditioned to control a snowboard in a much different way than most are used to, with our own sets of tradeoffs and compromises. Most people would think a guy with 8.5s on a skunk ape wide would be a ridiculous thought and somewhat funny, yet this is basically the only way of snowboarding that us size 7s have ever known.

Since there is no snow right now I'm geeking out about this and set on trying to find something with the ideal dimensions to see what it feels like. Maybe I'm so used to wider boards that I'll hate it and go back to what I've always done (also why I don't want a custom board yet). But I thought the thread would be useful for those who have looked into it to share what they found.


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

All true. The most valuable picture will be of your bare foot placed against the base of the board at you stance width and angles. The various amounts of padding and extra material that is used at the toe and heel of various boots does not help in developing leverage. All may look well with boots on but this can mask the underlying issue. With a 24 cm foot on a 25 cm (at inserts) board we would expect you to be at 2 cm (total) within the edge confines at your stance width and angles.


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## jtg (Dec 11, 2012)

Ok I think wrathfuldeity might have nailed this one with the venture. They'll do 240mm in either 149 or 153. That's the narrowest I can find besides the 148 TRS and I don't really want a TRS.


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## snowklinger (Aug 30, 2011)

calf raises


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## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

snowklinger said:


> calf raises


Best answer yet!!!!!


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## hpin (Feb 11, 2010)

I'm on the same boat. I wear a 7 Lashed and 7.5 Kaiju. 145+/- lbs
My main board right now is a 155 Berzerker with medium Capos. 246 waist and 7.1 sidecut. It works for me for freeride, fast groomers and a little bit of powder. I went catskiing with it and felt that I needed more float.

I am also very curious how a properly sized board would feel under my feet, but I need a mid-stiff board for riding the resorts that I go to.


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## speedjason (May 2, 2013)

I am not getting OP's concern because I don't euro carve at 90 degree so that overhang is a problem.
the problem with wider board is response compare to a normal sized board. just like a sports car, wider is harder to tip over.
I think OP is over thinking things. like someone said, just go ride.
also unless you have +0/-0 angle, you are not gonna have exact the length of your boots across the board. size 7 250mm at 15 degrees is only 241mm across the board so a 247mm board can perfectly contain your boots with room to spare. besides most boots are tapered at the bottom and add the height of your bindings, you will have more than enough clearance.


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## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

hpin said:


> I'm on the same boat. I wear a 7 Lashed and 7.5 Kaiju. 145+/- lbs
> My main board right now is a 155 Berzerker with medium Capos. 246 waist and 7.1 sidecut. It works for me for freeride, fast groomers and a little bit of powder. *I went catskiing with it and felt that I needed more float.*
> 
> I am also very curious how a properly sized board would feel under my feet, but I need a mid-stiff board for riding the resorts that I go to.


So...you are going to need a pow/float/cat board and a resort board. Riding soft fluffy pow or untouched...you are going to want more float and a wider board will float better. You don't need to so much concerned with quick edge to edge response that a narrow board will give. Because riding pow is a slightly different skill set....its more of a surfing feel, its more about maintaining speed *and looking for and then waiting for the turns to come* to you. Verses riding groomed or packed...you don't worry about speed, you can force railing turns...digging in or trenching an edge and pop to the next edge....in deep pow you cant do that as aggressively. The deep pow turns you lean into them, hold steady and then move out of the turn.

My perfect packed or groomer goofing around board is a narrowesh 155 like a gnu bpro or a fully cambered 155 twin, for 6-12" of pow its my 159 billygoat...slightly wider ww...but my deep pow 12"+ board is a 164 charlie slasher that has a 26cm waist...it is boatesh on packed and groomer...but floats like a dream in the deep.


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## jtg (Dec 11, 2012)

speedjason said:


> I am not getting OP's concern because I don't euro carve at 90 degree so that overhang is a problem.
> the problem with wider board is response compare to a normal sized board. just like a sports car, wider is harder to tip over.
> I think OP is over thinking things. like someone said, just go ride.
> also unless you have +0/-0 angle, you are not gonna have exact the length of your boots across the board. size 7 250mm at 15 degrees is only 241mm across the board so a 247mm board can perfectly contain your boots with room to spare. besides most boots are tapered at the bottom and add the height of your bindings, you will have more than enough clearance.


Please don't bother posting if you don't understand the issue and don't know of any boards that fit in this sizing category. Your post doesn't even make sense so I'm not sure that you read the thread. No idea why you're pointing out that a size 7 boot will have room to spare on a 247mm board.

If you think width doesn't matter for a size 7 boot on a normal width board, go ride a wide board and then post back about how it didn't make a difference. Nobody with a 9 or 10 rides a wide and most with an 11 try not to.


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## jtg (Dec 11, 2012)

hpin said:


> I'm on the same boat. I wear a 7 Lashed and 7.5 Kaiju. 145+/- lbs
> My main board right now is a 155 Berzerker with medium Capos. 246 waist and 7.1 sidecut. It works for me for freeride, fast groomers and a little bit of powder. I went catskiing with it and felt that I needed more float.
> 
> I am also very curious how a properly sized board would feel under my feet, but I need a mid-stiff board for riding the resorts that I go to.


A 155 sounds big enough for float, but that is a directional twin. Try with setback?

246 waist at 155 is definitely one of the narrowest I've seen at that length.


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## speedjason (May 2, 2013)

jtg said:


> Please don't bother posting if you don't understand the issue and don't know of any boards that fit in this sizing category. Your post doesn't even make sense so I'm not sure that you read the thread. No idea why you're pointing out that a size 7 boot will have room to spare on a 247mm board.
> 
> If you think width doesn't matter for a size 7 boot on a normal width board, go ride a wide board and then post back about how it didn't make a difference. Nobody with a 9 or 10 rides a wide and most with an 11 try not to.


but you are comparing to the waist width which is irrelevant where the bindings are are wider depending on the side cut.
I still don't know what you are trying to achieve here. you want wide board? you want narrow board?
you want more float? try longer board with setback if you want to keep o the width or you can also try wide board.
my board is 247 waist width and the width at the inserts is about 250mm. my size 8 boots are about 290mm long but I have my bindings at 15 degrees so its about 266 in absolute width.

if you really want some long board with narrow girth for pow, look for jones. They have 158cm board with 247mm waist.


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## hpin (Feb 11, 2010)

kosmoz said:


> and there is zero info online about width at the inserts, right?


That's right and short of physically measuring each model and size from local board shops, there no way of knowing the real measurements. I measured my berzerker 155, with 246 waist and 294 tail, at the ideal stance it's 259mm.

However with the right formula, given the waist width, nose width, sidecut radius, and recommended stance width, couldn't one estimate the board width at the inserts? anyone remember their geometry?


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## redlude97 (Jan 9, 2008)

speedjason said:


> but you are comparing to the waist width which is irrelevant where the bindings are are wider depending on the side cut.
> I still don't know what you are trying to achieve here. you want wide board? you want narrow board?
> you want more float? try longer board with setback if you want to keep o the width or you can also try wide board.
> my board is 247 waist width and the width at the inserts is about 250mm. my size 8 boots are about 290mm long but I have my bindings at 15 degrees so its about 266 in absolute width.
> ...


He wants a narrow board for increased response, doesn't have anything to do with pow


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## speedjason (May 2, 2013)

redlude97 said:


> He wants a narrow board for increased response, doesn't have anything to do with pow


Can't be that much different I would imagine.
I mean size 7 vs size 8 boots, 10mm difference. Doesn't really matter on a 150 board. In fact, it would make no difference at all. The reason why people with bigger feet still riding short boards is weight. Clearly feet size has no relation to body weight. If overhang really is an issue, you go wide board.
I just don't know why OP is moaning about a regular board with size 7 boots is a problem. Many light weight people with big feet would kill to ride a normal size board not because response problem although wide board is less responsive but because overhang. Small feet on a regular size board does not equal to riding wide board. It's not the relationship between the boots and the board that determine how a board handle. It's the board only. It'll be like saying a big car will handle the same as a smaller car if the driver of the bigger car is taller than the driver of smaller car.
I can be 150lbs riding a 150cm board with size 5 feet it will make no difference if I have size 8 feet. Now if I am 150lbs with size 13 feet, I will need wide board and the handling is gonna be different.


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## jtg (Dec 11, 2012)

You have no idea what you're talking about and apparently refuse to read the thread, please stop posting in it. We aren't interested in your thoughts on the matter. Thanks.


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## 2hellnbak (Sep 21, 2012)

jtg said:


> You have no idea what you're talking about and apparently refuse to read the thread, please stop posting in it. We aren't interested in your thoughts on the matter. Thanks.


When your mountain only has a 240 foot vertical drop it doesn't matter what you ride, you aren't going to turn at all lol. Might as well get a ski sled and some sled dogs.


Nebraska lol


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## redlude97 (Jan 9, 2008)

speedjason said:


> Can't be that much different I would imagine.
> I mean size 7 vs size 8 boots, 10mm difference. Doesn't really matter on a 150 board. In fact, it would make no difference at all. The reason why people with bigger feet still riding short boards is weight. Clearly feet size has no relation to body weight. If overhang really is an issue, you go wide board.
> I just don't know why OP is moaning about a regular board with size 7 boots is a problem. Many light weight people with big feet would kill to ride a normal size board not because response problem although wide board is less responsive but because overhang. Small feet on a regular size board does not equal to riding wide board. It's not the relationship between the boots and the board that determine how a board handle. It's the board only. It'll be like saying a big car will handle the same as a smaller car if the driver of the bigger car is taller than the driver of smaller car.
> I can be 150lbs riding a 150cm board with size 5 feet it will make no difference if I have size 8 feet. Now if I am 150lbs with size 13 feet, I will need wide board and the handling is gonna be different.


If you had size 8 feet, would you ride a wide board? I know I wouldn't


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## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

2hellnbak said:


> When your mountain only has a 240 foot vertical drop it doesn't matter what you ride, you aren't going to turn at all lol. Might as well get a ski sled and some sled dogs.
> 
> 
> Nebraska lol


qft...a toboggan would work


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## speedjason (May 2, 2013)

redlude97 said:


> If you had size 8 feet, would you ride a wide board? I know I wouldn't


No, what I am saying is someone is being unnecessarily anal.
He thinks his small feet should ride a even narrower board.


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## redlude97 (Jan 9, 2008)

speedjason said:


> No, what I am saying is someone is being unnecessarily anal.
> He thinks his small feet should ride a even narrower board.


 his small feet don't overhang his current boards, he's looking for something that would give similar leverage as someone who has a size 9/10 on a 25mm WW board. Just because you can't feel the difference in waist width between boards doesn't mean others can't. I have to avoid any midwides because my feet are only 8.5, and my big powderboard is a chore to ride on groomers because of its waist width.


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## Extazy (Feb 27, 2014)

So why wont he go with narrow board? I ride 7.5 and I have no issues riding normal boards..

Riding 153 gnu carbon credit and 156 solomons mans board.


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## redlude97 (Jan 9, 2008)

Extazy said:


> So why wont he go with narrow board? I ride 7.5 and I have no issues riding normal boards..
> 
> Riding 153 gnu carbon credit and 156 solomons mans board.


Thats what he's looking for, the CC is 24.7 but he'd need something in the 24.4 range to get the same leverage you do.


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## JonSnow (Jul 24, 2013)

Have you looked into getting some stiff bindings and boots? I believe that from a physics standpoint if you have a stiff binding/boot combo the size of your feet will not matter for leverage because you have an almost direct connection to the board. The size of your feet should only matter for leverage if you have a very soft combo, because you are able to articulate your ankle and have to use your calf/shin muscles to do so.

I don't think that small feet are so much the problem as weak calves. Your calves have developed with your small feet. Your feet are a shorter lever arm then most peoples, so if you were to lift 200lbs doing calf raises your calves are actually doing less work than someone else with bigger feet lifting the same weight. This is why short little stocky dudes can lift a lot more weight for their weight then someone with long limbs, shorter ROM and shorter leverage = less work.

If someone with bigger feet steps on a board and the width is the same length as his feet, he won't be doing any more work than usual when he goes up on his toes. If you do the same thing however it's like lengthening your feet without building the muscle to support the added length in the lever arm.

Even though I think it was said jokingly I think that calf raises will definitely help, but I think that stiff boots and bindings will help even more.


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## Extazy (Feb 27, 2014)

redlude97 said:


> Thats what he's looking for, the CC is 24.7 but he'd need something in the 24.4 range to get the same leverage you do.


Lib tech might have something in that range. But i think those will be around 149 though


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## jtg (Dec 11, 2012)

FFS enough with the useless skeptical replies already. This thread is for small footed dudes to post about narrow boards that are not short noodles.


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## ShredLife (Feb 6, 2010)

jtg said:


> FFS enough with the useless skeptical replies already. This thread is for small footed dudes to post about narrow boards that are not short noodles.


little guy is butthurt about his small dick. you are mad bro.


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## jtg (Dec 11, 2012)

Extazy said:


> So why wont he go with narrow board? I ride 7.5 and I have no issues riding normal boards..
> 
> Riding 153 gnu carbon credit and 156 solomons mans board.





Extazy said:


> Thank you! Unfortunately I couldn't find even one instructor in April/may. It's not busy so all mountains closed their riding schools. *But next season I will probably take Burtons learn to ride program.*





You know you're talking to dudes who drop gnarly shit at Mt Baker right? You don't even know what issues are, let alone if you have any. (tip: everyone has issues)

A buddy of mine rides at Hood year round, has been riding for 30 years and has been sponsored by the biggest sponsors in the industry. He's got size 8 feet. He rides narrow boards when he isn't surfing powder. Because it's a night and day difference. He could eurocarve at mach 1 on a door "with no issues" if he wanted to. But he'd much rather have a narrower board. I'll let him know that he just needs to do more calf raises and try stiffer boots though.

BTW, I have stiff boots and stiff bindings. You can still feel a difference between narrow and wide boards. If you haven't ridden a wide board, like 260+, don't bother with your theories until you try it. If you try it and say it made no difference, you're lying


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## speedjason (May 2, 2013)

ShredLife said:


> little guy is butthurt about his small dick. you are mad bro.


Wait, I thought he had a vagina.:eyetwitch2:


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## MikeIn248 (Dec 6, 2011)

Try a Donek Incline ($600).


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## jtg (Dec 11, 2012)

MikeIn248 said:


> Try a Donek Incline ($600).





> Available in waist widths from 22cm to 31cm
> 
> We’ll help you determine the width that best suits your foot and angles. Custom lengths (less than 190cm) available at no extra charge.


Nice, thanks! Cheaper than Prior, about the same as Venture but a bit more customization. Didn't realize Donek also made softbooter boards 

I would like to hear others experiences with them in general though. I'd consider dropping $600 for the right board, but that's tough on a blind purchase.

Hah, when you enter a Size 7 boot into their waist width estimator, with 12 degree back foot, it says you want a waist of 23cm  Doesn't ask stance width though, so I wonder how accurate that is.

Edit: They don't mention camber profile. Are all of their boards regular camber boards?


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## radiomuse210 (Sep 5, 2014)

jtg said:


> Nice, thanks! Cheaper than Prior, about the same as Venture but a bit more customization. Didn't realize Donek also made softbooter boards
> 
> I would like to hear others experiences with them in general though. I'd consider dropping $600 for the right board, but that's tough on a blind purchase.
> 
> ...



Huh, that waist width seems small - fwiw I have a size 6.5 boot in womens (around 5.5-6 in mens I think) and I typically ride boards with waist widths from 23.2-23.4. At my angles (12+,9-) and stance width (18-19in), anything higher is either pushing it or just plain not gonna work. 23.2 is my happy place as far as that goes.


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## el-ultra (Oct 2, 2014)

Hi Jtg,

I have exactly the same issue as you but im 5'7 and weigh 165lb. My feet are 25.2 front and 25 rear. People in this post have made some great suggestions in terms or boards to go for but I think you could really consider going for a custom if you are concerned like me. I have just ordered a Prior AMF 156 with a 242 width at inserts. They guys there are super helpful and with your weight you could get a 153 with a really narrow waist. Donek is also a great place to look too as mentioned. 23cm at waist would be a seriously narrow deck and I would worry about stability at speed, 24cm at inserts would suit you great! 

Before I even heard about the waist issue I was riding a Bataleon Goliath 156 which was about 25.7 at inserts, I didn't know any better and if I am serious I didn't have any issues. My current ride is a 157n Libtech TRS and yeah it?s too wide but the cam rock profile really helps. Just my 2 cents.

Edit..
Checked with Prior, 242mm at centre of inserts does mean a waist of 232mm in the centre of the board with a sidecut of around 8m.


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## jtg (Dec 11, 2012)

So I finally got to take a TRS 148N out which is 237mm at the waist. Took some getting used to, but it's a pretty huge difference actually being able to control your edges from your ankles rather than laying in to everything. So, apparently this is what snowboarding feels like to everyone else! :banana:

148 is pretty short so I'll probably get something longer made at comparable width if it ever snows again.



el-ultra said:


> Hi Jtg,
> 
> I have exactly the same issue as you but im 5'7 and weigh 165lb. My feet are 25.2 front and 25 rear. People in this post have made some great suggestions in terms or boards to go for but I think you could really consider going for a custom if you are concerned like me. I have just ordered a Prior AMF 156 with a 242 width at inserts. They guys there are super helpful and with your weight you could get a 153 with a really narrow waist. Donek is also a great place to look too as mentioned. 23cm at waist would be a seriously narrow deck and I would worry about stability at speed, 24cm at inserts would suit you great!
> 
> ...


Interesting, 232 does sound pretty narrow. Definitely interested in your feedback on that one and with dealing with Prior in general. I think I'm gonna go with a Donek Nomad at 153/154ish.

Why are you ordering a 242mm insert width board if you say 257mm "didn't have any issues"? Doesn't make sense to me that you'd make such an extreme change for no discernible benefit. 

Where do you ride?


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## KinkMojo (Mar 26, 2014)

Wow I'm in the same boat as jtg, not noticing that width is an important factor although I have Mondopoint 26.1 feet. To me it seems like I don't have enough overhang on my board. What would be the optimal width at inserts for me?


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## ashwinearl (Jan 19, 2010)

jtg said:


> After realizing that I've apparently overlooked an important sizing element in snowboarding all this time, waist width, I've come to the realization that this industry is not made for dudes with size 7-7.5 feet.
> 
> Apparently just about everyone has a foot length that is significantly larger than the waist width of their snowboard (though not necessarily overhanging at the inserts with angles - and talking about feet only, not boots). This isn't the case for 7 feet. Some boards are 247mm, but a size 7 is 250mm. For comparison, a size 9.5 is 267mm, way wider than even most wide boards at the waist yet fits on a normal width board.


FINALLY. I've found my people!

Male, 
135lbs
currently wearing size 7 Lashed, 
25.5 cm foot length heel to end of middle toe
Stance angles +18/-9 PR +15/-12 19 3/4 to20" wide at suggested setback
Intermediate rider (groomers)
East Coast

Toe overhang at the inserts is a significant issue for board control. Like others here I am struggling with pressuring the edge well and also torsionally twisting the board from running boards that are probably too stiff.

Right now, I am on a Ride Antic 151, after going through Wired Sports fit guide: http://www.wiredsport.com/snowboard_fit_tips I realized that I need a narrower (at the inserts) board.

As others have stated, it is difficult to assess what the width will be at the inserts when the typical waist specification is listed. Has anyone seen a calculator that takes into account waist width, sidecut, tip/tail width to generate a better estimate of width at the inserts?

So what about a running list of potential boards and links to custom builders that can accommodate our niche.

What I am looking for is.
-RCR camber profile
-possibly Mellow magnetraction
-Narrow at the inserts so that my 25.5cm foot has overhang to pressurize the edge
-Torsionally mid-soft so that I can twist the board
-149-153 length
-stiffness rated for 135lbs

I want to be able to turn quickly, and turn a lot. My goal is to be able to ride glades and small moguls. 

Some boards that are on my list but have no idea of the critical Width at the inserts (WAI) measurement are:

Some I got off this thread over at Easy Living. 

TRS 148-Narrow
Rossignol Frenemy
Rossignol Diva
Jones Twin Sister
Capita Birds of a Feather
Capita Jess Kimura
Capita outdoor living
StepChild Sucks Slim
Prior Slaylok
Prior Brandywine
Yes Basic
Ride Farah


Can someone list the custom builders? 
Donek
Prior
Divide ? 

For the issue of dealing with a chick print, can someone post a link to tips on DIY for overlaying vinyl or something over if desired?

Anyway, *thanks so much *to the original poster for making this thread. We're a very small niche which doesn't make sense from a business standpoint to really have a product dedicated to it. There seem to be some options out there in women's boards (and ways to get around chick prints if desired), some traction towards the Narrow models of existing boards, and a handful of custom builders, so we aren't totally SOL.


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## ashwinearl (Jan 19, 2010)

I emailed Donek based on my specs above and they suggested 148 Phoenix with custom waist width of 23.3

The closest things I've seen to that length/waist are:
Prior Brandywine 147 23.6
TRS 148N - 23.7
Capita birds of a feather 146/23.5 - 148 23.8
Jess Kimura 148 23.8


I need to ask about available camber, It is a 7day turn around.


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## el-ultra (Oct 2, 2014)

jtg said:


> Interesting, 232 does sound pretty narrow. Definitely interested in your feedback on that one and with dealing with Prior in general. I think I'm gonna go with a Donek Nomad at 153/154ish.
> 
> Why are you ordering a 242mm insert width board if you say 257mm "didn't have any issues"? Doesn't make sense to me that you'd make such an extreme change for no discernible benefit.
> 
> Where do you ride?


Hi jtg,

I actually revised my order with Prior and went to 250 at the centre insert on their recommendation. I have used the Prior for 2 weeks in whistler and its awesome, really recommend the AMF. I have 0 issues with edge to edge transition.

I didn't have any issue with the Bataleon because I didn't know any better, I just rode the board and it was fine. The reason I made such a change was after learning the improvement a narrow waist can make.

I ride everywhere but mainly the Alps as I am from Europe.


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## ashwinearl (Jan 19, 2010)

ETM said:


> [email protected]


FYI for others looking.

I contacted Divide to ask about board for my men's size 7 boot. They didn't have stock board that matched the narrow width and full custom was $1500 Canadian.

I've been in correspondence with Donek and they start at $650 and go up with certain options. 

Waiting to here from Prior on what they suggest and est. cost.


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## Kenai (Dec 15, 2013)

I'm just subscribing. Size 6.5-7 wide feet (in Nike Lunarendor size 8) here. I weigh 165-70. I have always wondered about this issue, but I've never seen a logical discussion until now. Thanks!


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## jtg (Dec 11, 2012)

el-ultra said:


> Hi jtg,
> 
> I actually revised my order with Prior and went to 250 at the centre insert on their recommendation. I have used the Prior for 2 weeks in whistler and its awesome, really recommend the AMF. I have 0 issues with edge to edge transition.
> 
> ...


For 250 at the center insert, what is it at the waist? And for your stance, are your feet actually at the center or inside a bit?


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## Kenai (Dec 15, 2013)

For those of us with average weight (170 lbs.) and small feet (I measured 24.4 cm), what does getting a custom narrow board do for float? I assume if I ordered a custom board I'm going to end up learning how everyone else feels for carving, but I'm going to compromise significantly on any performance off the groomed. Absent a ridiculous amount of side cut creating extra wide tips/tails there is no way to get the surface area back to something comparable to a stock board.


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## ashwinearl (Jan 19, 2010)

*Waist, stiffness, how does it come together?*

So I'm on a quest for narrower board now. But in looking back at the specs on boards I've owned, I'm considering that waist can't be the only criteria.

I am male size 7 boot, 25cm raw measurement of foot, 135lbs, 5'4", athletic but not super aggressive rider. Central New York, Intermediate, groomers, want to get better for glades and small moguls

Boards owned:
1998 Oxygen Vibe 154 , Waist 24.5 - camber
2005 Rome Anthem 146, Waist 23.8 - camber
2010 K2 Believer 151, waist 24.7 -flat line
2012 Ride Antic 151, waist 24.6, Ride low rize

Thinking back the Vibe was ok turning and I could do cross under turns. But I was learning and caught edges a lot, and it might have been a tad too long. The Anthem was stiffer,shorter and narrower, but was much harder for me. The only time it would listen to me was when I was on it, aggressive and fresh. The Believer was stable but hard to get turning and helped me get over the fear of cat tracks. The Antic has been a good balance of stability on flats, and initiates turns much better than the K2 but still seems like I "should" be able to initiate turns, esp toe edge faster. I also seem to blow out on the heel edge. 

In my current quest, here are some boards that I'm considering. Any opinions welcome.

I "think" I want traditional camber or a hybrid profile that is camber dominant. My hope is that 15 years of experience will help me adapt back to camber and control those catastrophic edge catches.

-Full Custom Donek Phoenix, 148 23.3 waist, tuned slightly more flexible for me
Never Summer Infinity 149 23.6
Never summer lotus 149 23.5
Smokin vixn 148 23.5 $450 ebay - rocker in middle camber at end
Prior slaylock 150 23.5
arbor push 148 23.6 - stiffer-
Prior Brandywine 147 23.6
Atomic Tikka 148 23.6
Option bella 148 23.7 (153-23.9 $47 +$50 ship ebay)
K2 lunatique 149 23.7
TRS 148N - 23.7 - maybe too stiff
GNU B-nice 151 148 23.8
Capita Jess kimura 148 23.8
Nitro fate 146 23.8
CAPiTA Saturnia 149 - 23.8
Flow canvas 148 23.8 
2012 K2 Wolfpack 148 - 23.8 - flat camber
Capita birds of a feather 146/23.5 - 148 23.8 
Lamar whipser 149 - 23.9
Option Kendra Star
Ride farah 147 24
Rosi Frenemy 147-24, 50-24.1
GNU ladies Choice 148.5 - 24.2!! 
GNU B-pro 149 24.2 
Rossi Diva 148 - 24.2
GNU Bpro 149 24.2
salomon gypsy 148 24.2
Jones Twin Sister 149 24.2
NAS 153 24.


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## ashwinearl (Jan 19, 2010)

really good post on the subject here:
How Important is Snowboard Width Sizing and How Do I Get it Right? | Snowboarding Profiles


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## jtg (Dec 11, 2012)

ashwinearl said:


> So I'm on a quest for narrower board now. But in looking back at the specs on boards I've owned, I'm considering that waist can't be the only criteria.
> 
> I am male size 7 boot, 25cm raw measurement of foot, 135lbs, 5'4", athletic but not super aggressive rider. Central New York, Intermediate, groomers, want to get better for glades and small moguls
> 
> ...


I find it odd that you've been snowboarding for so long and catching edges is even a thing. Normally I would say that if you have to think about catching edges, it's probably too early to buy a custom board. But you've been riding for 15 years and this is still a concern? And 15 years of experience and you're still only riding intermediate groomers?

While a narrow board would certainly be an advantage, it sounds like there are bigger problems here. 



Kenai said:


> For those of us with average weight (170 lbs.) and small feet (I measured 24.4 cm), what does getting a custom narrow board do for float? I assume if I ordered a custom board I'm going to end up learning how everyone else feels for carving, but I'm going to compromise significantly on any performance off the groomed. Absent a ridiculous amount of side cut creating extra wide tips/tails there is no way to get the surface area back to something comparable to a stock board.


Good question, how do you calculate the difference in surface area? If it's a powder board, the width isn't going to be as important. Otherwise, you probably have to go a bit longer if you go narrower.


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## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

jtg said:


> I find it odd that you've been snowboarding for so long and catching edges is even a thing. Normally I would say that if you have to think about catching edges, it's probably too early to buy a custom board. But you've been riding for 15 years and this is still a concern? And 15 years of experience and you're still only riding intermediate groomers?
> 
> While a narrow board would certainly be an advantage, it sounds like there are bigger problems here.
> *yes problem...perhaps lack of days per season*
> ...


Surface area will be dependent up on snow conditions and perhaps board profile is a more influential factor.

The obvious answer is QUIVER, a pow board for open bowls C Slasher 164, a nimble pow tree board billygoat 159, a groomer carving board option trinity 158 or k starr 155 and a messing around board bpro 155...easy problem solved.


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## Kenai (Dec 15, 2013)

wrathfuldeity said:


> The obvious answer is QUIVER...


Sure, but the point of this thread seemed to be to get a board with an "appropriate" width for tiny feet. If I get a board with a reasonable width for my size 7 feet and 170 lbs. it is very unlikely to be even close to adequate for anything but groomers. I'll be perfectly happy in the powder on a powder board, but then I am just back to just accepting something that performs differently for me than someone with normal feet. 

The bottom line is that I probably can't win even with a custom board. To understand the feeling an average foot/weight person has to engage the edge I need a really narrow board. If I get a really narrow board it seriously limits the conditions under which it performs optimally. 

My feet suck! (And don't think the ladies don't notice. They do.)


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## flips712 (Dec 10, 2011)

Thanks for the link. That site is really good!


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

Kenai said:


> Sure, but the point of this thread seemed to be to get a board with an "appropriate" width for tiny feet. If I get a board with a reasonable width for my size 7 feet and 170 lbs. it is very unlikely to be even close to adequate for anything but groomers. I'll be perfectly happy in the powder on a powder board, but then I am just back to just accepting something that performs differently for me than someone with normal feet.
> 
> The bottom line is that I probably can't win even with a custom board. To understand the feeling an average foot/weight person has to engage the edge I need a really narrow board. If I get a really narrow board it seriously limits the conditions under which it performs optimally.
> 
> My feet suck! (And don't think the ladies don't notice. They do.)


Hi Bro,

Having the correct board width (or as close as you can come to it) will make your riding more fun in all conditions except possibly really deep pow days. On those deepest days, yes, you may end up with a pow specific stick, but that is the case for many riders with big feet as well. You are on the right course with this thread.

STOKED!


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## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

Kenai said:


> Sure, but the point of this thread seemed to be to get a board with an "appropriate" width for tiny feet. If I get a board with a reasonable width for my size 7 feet and 170 lbs. it is very unlikely to be even close to adequate for anything but groomers. I'll be perfectly happy in the powder on a powder board, but then I am just back to just accepting something that performs differently for me than someone with normal feet.
> 
> The bottom line is that I probably can't win even with a custom board. To understand the feeling an average foot/weight person has to engage the edge I need a really narrow board. If I get a really narrow board it seriously limits the conditions under which it performs optimally.
> 
> My feet suck! (And don't think the ladies don't notice. They do.)


Bro...i know your pain...I do women's size 8 boots and at 180#....I just listed my quiver and these boards are the closest non-custom that fit my needs...except for the charlie slasher...I also use diy 20mm riser plates to get a better leverage angle...it works.


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## Nolefan2011 (Mar 12, 2011)

I can only imagine the next topic of discussion for you guys. Probably for another message board.


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## Irahi (May 19, 2011)

God this thread is depressing as fuck. Size 7 feet here, I subscribe to the "just ride anyway" mentality, but the thought that I could have it easier nags at the back of my mind occasionally. 

Read through the whole thing credit card in hand waiting for a revelation to happen.

Nope, just an industry guy telling us that nobody gives a shit.


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## ashwinearl (Jan 19, 2010)

*Another interesting link*

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TZb1gDrYf0U

More skewed towards too narrow of a board, but the concept applies to too wide.


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## flips712 (Dec 10, 2011)

*Boards in Japan*



jtg said:


> Hmm, even 243 isn't comparable to what normal feet get on a normal board for leverage, though probably a big improvement. 9.5 feet get an extra 22mm on a 253 board, and a 7 would get just 7mm on a 243, and probably back to negative at the inserts with angles factored in.
> 
> @ETM: yeah, can't find any sidecut that aggressive, can barely find suitable boards at all. Unless you mean custom specs.
> 
> *WTF do they ride in Japan? They must have boards that don't land over here.*


Two of the boards popular in Japan are made by Gentem and Yonex. And as another poster mentioned the length of their boards are quite long but I noticed that some of that had pretty narrow waist widths. Not all of them, but some of them.

FLOATER153 uni : GENTEM STICK

THE SNOW SURF 14-15 SPOONFISH MERMAID : 151cm TSS ¥¹¥×¡¼¥ó¥Õ¥£¥Ã¥·¥å ¥Þ¡¼¥á¥¤¥É TSS by GENTEMSTICK

THE SNOWSURF

SNOWBOARD ã‚¹ãƒŽãƒ¼ãƒœãƒ¼ãƒ‰ | ãƒ¨ãƒ�ãƒƒã‚¯ã‚¹(YONEX)


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## Kenai (Dec 15, 2013)

I'm also going to engage in some stereotyping here - I'm willing to bet the Japanese riders with smaller feet also weigh significantly less than your average Five Guys eating American. The boards you just posted are not long at all!


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## flips712 (Dec 10, 2011)

Well, I'm a tiny girl so any board over 142 is long for my size but would be like riding a twig for a guy. 

The links I posted were mainly so other can check out all their boards as they do have some long boards on their site.


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## destroy (Dec 16, 2012)

ITT:


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## TooNice (Feb 7, 2014)

If my feet are 24cm what would be the "ideal" waist widths?

BTW, even by Japanese standards, my feet are too tiny for most boot manufacturers to bother with. I have only seen one Japanese maker with boots starting at 24cm according to the catalogue, BUT after going to many, many shops stocking that brand, I could not find a single shop selling anything smaller than 1-1.5 size larger.

On the other hand, I do notice that many snowboarders here ride relatively shorter boards. Not sure if this is more to do with a preference to freestyle once they are more or less intermediate riders, the fact that they are lighter, or something else.


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## Extazy (Feb 27, 2014)

TooNice said:


> If my feet are 24cm what would be the "ideal" waist widths?
> 
> BTW, even by Japanese standards, my feet are too tiny for most boot manufacturers to bother with. I have only seen one Japanese maker with boots starting at 24cm according to the catalogue, BUT after going to many, many shops stocking that brand, I could not find a single shop selling anything smaller than 1-1.5 size larger.
> 
> On the other hand, I do notice that many snowboarders here ride relatively shorter boards. Not sure if this is more to do with a preference to freestyle once they are more or less intermediate riders, the fact that they are lighter, or something else.


I think ideally you want 1 inch of overhang on both sides.

Have you tried 32? I think I saw on their website size 5 and 6.

http://thirtytwo.com/boots/prime-8/black/

And try some ladies boots, but the stiffest ones.


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## jtg (Dec 11, 2012)

TooNice said:


> If my feet are 24cm what would be the "ideal" waist widths?
> 
> BTW, even by Japanese standards, my feet are too tiny for most boot manufacturers to bother with. I have only seen one Japanese maker with boots starting at 24cm according to the catalogue, BUT after going to many, many shops stocking that brand, I could not find a single shop selling anything smaller than 1-1.5 size larger.
> 
> On the other hand, I do notice that many snowboarders here ride relatively shorter boards. Not sure if this is more to do with a preference to freestyle once they are more or less intermediate riders, the fact that they are lighter, or something else.


Probably around 22cm.


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## timmytard (Mar 19, 2009)

I have a brand new Infinity for sale.

Yup it's a chics board:facepalm1:, but it's still a Never Summer & it'll handle a dudes weight.

My first Never Summer deck was a Lotus. I don't know why you guys aren't riding chics boards?

Especially Never Summer chic decks. haha
They're about the least chic lookin' board out there. 


TT


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## T.J (Feb 20, 2015)

Alas it seems I belong to this group 

24.9 foot size.....


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## flips712 (Dec 10, 2011)

Extazy said:


> I think ideally you want 1 inch of overhang on both sides.
> 
> Have you tried 32? I think I saw on their website size 5 and 6.
> 
> ...



And if my feet are 22cm and I'm an adult female what would be the "ideal" waist widths? Does anyone know of any manufacturers that make really narrow boards for people like me? I've searched extensively and can't find anything that would 'ideally' fit me. I weigh 105 lbs BTW. 

Thanks,
flips712


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## ashwinearl (Jan 19, 2010)

flips712 said:


> And if my feet are 22cm and I'm an adult female what would be the "ideal" waist widths? Does anyone know of any manufacturers that make really narrow boards for people like me? I've searched extensively and can't find anything that would 'ideally' fit me. I weigh 105 lbs BTW.
> 
> Thanks,
> flips712


Ones that I came across with narrower waists "in general" were
Never Summer Infinity,
Arbor Eden
Atomic Polarity
Capita BOF
Signal Vita Wavelength
forum star 

Donek is the best vendor for making a custom width/length/flex. 

I am learning that waist width alone isn't the only factor involved here. It's a combination of waist width, and torsional flexibility, and technique. I had a really narrow waist Rome Anthem once but I couldn't do anything with it because of technique and it was too stiff for me.

So perhaps a board with a waist that is on the narrower side, but still might not be enough to get your toes at the edge, but with a softer torsional flex might help you?

You will get different answers from different people. Some have better technique and prefer stiffer boards, others not. Demoing is the only way to really know, or buy used with the intention of flipping it at a loss just to try them out.

But I think going as narrow as you can does make a difference so it is worth it to at least try something narrower which trying to match the flex with your own size, strength, skill ability.


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## TooNice (Feb 7, 2014)

Haha, seems like my feet really are small even by small feet standard (of an adult male). As someone with no DIY skill, this wouldn't really work, but for anyone with small feet and some DIY skills, this seems perfect if you want a powder board: YES. SNOWBOARDS » The Clark Blog / 001


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## flips712 (Dec 10, 2011)

TooNice said:


> Haha, seems like my feet really are small even by small feet standard (of an adult male). As someone with no DIY skill, this wouldn't really work, but for anyone with small feet and some DIY skills, this seems perfect if you want a powder board: YES. SNOWBOARDS » The Clark Blog / 001


I'm kind of handy....for a girl. I actually considered attempting a diy build with a coworker who is super crafty since I can't find a narrow enough board.


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## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

flips712 said:


> I'm kind of handy....for a girl. I actually considered attempting a diy build with a coworker who is super crafty since I can't find a narrow enough board.


riser plates are easy to make and they work, made these for my 164 charlie slasher...20mm thick...high density plastic, band or jig saw and a drill press ... and some longer 6mm screws cut to length


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## flips712 (Dec 10, 2011)

wrathfuldeity said:


> riser plates are easy to make and they work, made these for my 164 charlie slasher...20mm thick...high density plastic, band or jig saw and a drill press ... and some longer 6mm screws cut to length


Thanks for the pics. Perhaps a dumb question, but aside from the base plate cutout what is the purpose for all the other cutouts? Is it done to minimize the amount of material in contact with the board? It looks like you have 3M tape on them. If so, is the applied to both the top and bottom of the plates or on one side only?

Thanks,
flips712


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## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

flips712 said:


> Thanks for the pics. Perhaps a dumb question, but aside from the base plate cutout what is the purpose for all the other cutouts? Is it done to minimize the amount of material in contact with the board? It looks like you have 3M tape on them. If so, is the applied to both the top and bottom of the plates or on one side only?
> 
> Thanks,
> flips712


All the holes are for weight savings...ya really don't need a solid plate and the tape is for some grippage so the binding/riser plate/board doesn't slip.

So just get some a block of high density plastic, set your binding on and trace around and for the disc, cut and drill out. Doing this then you don't change the flex profile of the board because your riser plate is the same foot print of the binding. The riser changes the angle so that you can get more leverage...because your pivot point in the ankle is further away from the board.


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## ThredJack (Mar 18, 2014)

I'm a 7.5 boot. I currently have a K2 Subculture with 250 ww. I don't think I was having any issues due to my waist width, but I'm too much of a beginner to really know. I also was wearing boots a full size too big last season. Don't know if that would matter.

I'm 5'7" about 190lds(not as fat as I sound!:embarrased1. I'd assume being a fat ass would eliminate Women's boards from contention?


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## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

ThredJack said:


> I'm 5'7" about 190lds(not as fat as I sound!:embarrased1. I'd assume being a fat ass would eliminate Women's boards from contention?


I'm 5'6", 180 with size 7 and ride/have 3 women's boards that work darn well, Option Kendra Starr 155 cambered directional twin, Option Trinity 158 freeride cambered and a gnu bpro 155 c2btx. If you are going to ride a women's board, get the top of the line, stiffest expert/pro model...and probably longest women's board.


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## ThredJack (Mar 18, 2014)

wrathfuldeity said:


> I'm 5'6", 180 with size 7 and ride/have 3 women's boards that work darn well, Option Kendra Starr 155 cambered directional twin, Option Trinity 158 freeride cambered and a gnu bpro 155 c2btx. If you are going to ride a women's board, get the top of the line, stiffest expert/pro model...and probably longest women's board.


I figured flex would be an issue, I know women's boards are quite a bit softer than men's boards. Even the ones that are considered a "medium" flex are more like a men's beginner or jib boards probably.

I want something that can do park, for when I start to dabble in there, probably by the end of this coming season(I'm hoping). My main issue with women's boards will be the graphics. I know graphics aren't really important, but I don't want tie-dye flowers or rainbows and unicorns on my base graphic. lol

I'll stick to my K2 for now, see if it becomes an issue, though I don't remember having to lean into anything too hard....but I want to keep this in mind for when I DO decide to buy something new.


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## timmytard (Mar 19, 2009)

wrathfuldeity said:


> I'm 5'6", 180 with size 7 and ride/have 3 women's boards that work darn well, Option Kendra Starr 155 cambered directional twin, Option Trinity 158 freeride cambered and a gnu bpro 155 c2btx. If you are going to ride a women's board, get the top of the line, stiffest expert/pro model...and probably longest women's board.


I too have ridden the chic sticks,:embarrased1: Had an Option Bella 54 & more recently a Never Summer Lotus & I still have an Infinity.
The Lotus was the 1st Never Summer I had, I loved it.
It's the reason I started buyin' NS'ers.

I personally just like an extremely stiff, wide board.
But since my feet fit it, I had to give it a try.

They are my favorite board to ride, & it all started with the chic stick. haha


TT 



If they made a bigger chic stick, I'd be all over it. The lotus was a 57 & the Infinity is a 56

Either one of those you could ride.

I usually ride big, wide, stiff ass boards. 

& I punish em, but the little girl boards were up to the challenge.



Also, a big shout out to Option boards.

They were top of the line boards for more than 20 years, from my home town.
Shame they are no more.

You guys should snatch up every one you see, cause if it's your size, chances are you're gonna love it.

I've had more Option boards than any other & I've yet to break one.

Think I have @ least 5 of em?

They make fuckin' stiff hard chargin' boards, in either chic or dick


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## jtg (Dec 11, 2012)

Capita NAS is also not a bad compromise. The 153 is 242mm, the 159 is 249mm. It's a stiffer camber board.


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## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

timmytard said:


> Also, a big shout out to Option boards.
> 
> They were top of the line boards for more than 20 years, from my home town.
> Shame they are no more.
> ...


One caveat with Options...get the expert and pro level boards...got 3 that are 10+ years, practically bombproof and all are doing just fine....don't get the beginners levels and the newer ones after 2005? that were not made in Vancouver.


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## ThredJack (Mar 18, 2014)

jtg said:


> Capita NAS is also not a bad compromise. The 153 is 242mm, the 159 is 249mm. It's a stiffer camber board.


Looks nice, but I think I'm looking for something a little softer. I won't be hucking myself off big booters anytime soon, just boxes, rails, and mild jumps for now.


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## jtg (Dec 11, 2012)

ThredJack said:


> Looks nice, but I think I'm looking for something a little softer. I won't be hucking myself off big booters anytime soon, just boxes, rails, and mild jumps for now.


But you're 190lbs. The 153 is meant to be on the stiffer side for a 115-165lb rider. It won't be stiff for you at all.


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## ThredJack (Mar 18, 2014)

jtg said:


> But you're 190lbs. The 153 is meant to be on the stiffer side for a 115-165lb rider. It won't be stiff for you at all.


This is true, but I'm hoping to lose about 20lds before next season, putting me about 170. I don't think the extra 5lds would effect the flex that much, might make it feel a tad softer, but nothing drastic.


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## timmytard (Mar 19, 2009)

One of you dainty footed big:dry: dudes should buy the Infinity I have.

Never Summer is about one of the best boards for not having stereotypical chic graphics.

Not a single person ever said anything about the Lotus I was riding.

They're pretty much mostly black & any little patch of color can be covered up with a few stickers.

If you buy a used guys never Summer deck, they don't usually drop much in price.

Chics boards, for some reason do?

So you could buy a semi beat up guys Never Summer for maybe $200?

Or you could buy the absolutely pristine, scratch free Infinity I have for less.


I have some other gear to that some of you guys might want?

Got a brand new pair of 32 Tm 2's in an 8? I think?
A few years old so not Boa, but kick ass boots.

& a pair of virtually brand new Burton Boxer's in an 8 as well I think?

I know I have more shit, just can't think of it off hand right now.


TT


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## jdang307 (Feb 6, 2011)

WW on The Hel by Yes looks promising

YES. SNOWBOARDS » HEL YES.

EDIT: Didn't realize it was a womens board untiL I watched the video. Not overly girly though.


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## Irahi (May 19, 2011)

I've been pretty happy with the Capita NAS since I picked one up. 242 waist width @ 153cm length, and no one would ever accuse it of being a noodle.


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## Extazy (Feb 27, 2014)

Maaan. If I didn't have 3 boards already I wouldve've bought that. It seems like I am gonna demo lots of stuff next year)


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## OMG_MOVE (Oct 22, 2015)

Folks,

I'd like to get your expert opinions on what board I should proceed with. I'm one of those situations where I'm a smaller foot but not too small and not to big.

Specs:

Sex: Male
Height: 5'8
Weight: 190 lb
Level: Intermediate
Type: Mainly groomers, enjoy a mix of freestyle and freeride. Would like to work on carving and some switch riding
Location: East Coast Hard Pack / Ice
Current Board: 2013 Rossignol Templar 156 (Used since beginner)
Binding Angles: 15+/9-
Bindings: 2015 Burton Genesis Reflex Medium
Boots Sz 8 Burton Ruler
Barefoot Measurement - 259mm

I'm looking to get onto a new board. Also debating on moving up in size to a 158/159.

I'm finding it hard to find a board that has smaller waist widths, I tend to see an average waist width of 253 in the 158/159 range.

I'm in between on the following boards

1) Libtech TRS 159 - Has a waist width of 253, another forum member provided me with the insert width at the bottom measuring 260mm. So this leaves me 1mm short based on the BOTTOM of the board.

2) Prior MFR - 158 - Has a waist width of 248, radius of 8.5 and a setback of 25mm. The store owner provided a measurement at the front inserts of 257 on the bottom and 250 at the topsheet. Setback of 25mm might be an issue for what I want to achieve?

Which would be the better option for me? I don't know much about the Prior MFR and hard to find reviews as it is a smaller company. It's also twice the price as the TRS i'm getting is from last season. But i'd rather go for the better option.

I'm also open to any suggestions you may have for any other mid-flex All-Mountain type boards.

I look forward to your responses!

Thank you soo much!


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## OMG_MOVE (Oct 22, 2015)

OMG_MOVE said:


> I'm in between on the following boards
> 
> 1) Libtech TRS 159 - Has a waist width of 253, another forum member provided me with the insert width at the bottom measuring 260mm. So this leaves me 1mm short based on the BOTTOM of the board.
> 
> 2) Prior MFR - 158 - Has a waist width of 248, radius of 8.5 and a setback of 25mm. The store owner provided a measurement at the front inserts of 257 on the bottom and 250 at the topsheet. Setback of 25mm might be an issue for what I want to achieve?


Looks like i'm going to with the Prior AMF 156 - They provide some good customization options. I'll be able to get my board dialed in this way. 

For those who are having a hard time getting that right fit you might want to check them out at Prior Snowboards and Skis

I'll try to provide a review this season once I get this board


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## Phedder (Sep 13, 2014)

The overall shape looks similar to a Ride Berzerker, can get the 2015 in evo outlet for $320, 158 is 248 at the waist. Though If you've got the money for custom go for it!


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## jtg (Dec 11, 2012)

I got them to go super narrow on my Prior. Haven't ridden it yet. FYI, to get them to take enough off of an AMF 156 you'll need to opt for the $300 custom template option. The good news is once you're paying that anyway, they'll do pretty much anything you can dream up.

If you're dropping all that cash for a prior though you should really go longer than 156. At 190lbs you're gonna submarine that thing if you ever do find some powder. You can get them to stiffen up a shorter board, but there's no replacement for surface area when you need to float.


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## jtg (Dec 11, 2012)

Huh, just noticed that some Smokin ladies boards have some interesting dimensions.

Smokin Vixin comes in lengths up to 156, and all sizes have a waist width of 235mm. That's the longest board that I've seen that goes that narrow. Flex says 6 which is pretty stiff for their mens boards at least, and recommended weight is 120-170. The art on the LTD version doesn't look great, but it's not extremely girly.

true twin CTX with magnetraction, guessing it rides somewhat like the TRS 148N but with more edge.

Vixin LTD.


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## SkullAndXbones (Feb 24, 2014)

timmytard said:


> One of you dainty footed big:dry: dudes should buy the Infinity I have.
> 
> Never Summer is about one of the best boards for not having stereotypical chic graphics.
> 
> Not a single person ever said anything about the Lotus I was riding.


they were just being polite you cross dressing rider weirdo.


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## shasty (Nov 30, 2014)

Just a heads up for fellow narrow footers.

Evo is having a massive sale on 2015 Yes Hel Yes, for $216 with cyber monday coupon (right now all sizes available). 
Even though its a woman's board, it definitely looks like gender neutral, and should be stiff enough for all mountain use. 


I've been waiting patiently for this sale and snagged this board with size 152cm. I weigh 140 and wear a US size 7 boot.


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## Luftschiff (Nov 30, 2015)

Too bad that it doesn't ship to places outside the US


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

jtg said:


> The problem is almost all of the boards with less than 240mm waists, which you'd need to get comparable leverage, are either super short toy boards or wet noodle women's boards.


After rinding one of @ETMs very narrow boards I got aware of what leverage actually means. Wasn't aware before of how much I had to work for my turns all that time on rather oversized boards.

Begun to look for a board which would combine a narrow waist AND a decent length (<24mm / ~156cm). Fail for the "standard" brands. Seems like their women's boards having a decent length are built for huge women with equally big feet :dunno:.

The ones I found to go into this direction are from small local handmade brands; did demo a Radical Snowflake splitboard (153/23.7) and Zensnow Women’s (156/23.9) and wow, they were awesomness - the price is a different story tho :laugh:. You may wanna check locally craftet little brands at yours, they may offer equal options which depart from the general industry stats.

I went with a smaller women's version (152/24.1) of the trusted Jones Flagship which has the profile (early rising rockered nose) I love to ride and found it a pretty perfect trade-off for my stats (115lb, 24.5cm feet). Could also be an option for you small footed guys as its weight range goes up to 160lbs.


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## Kenai (Dec 15, 2013)

Prior is a North American company to consider. With the Canadian exchange rate right now it's a great deal for Americans. Many of their boards seem slightly narrower than most manufacturers with normal specs, but for $150 they will also narrow any board up to 1cm. I'm hoping to order a board soon as I understand they have an end of year sale.


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## Argo (Feb 25, 2010)

Donek is another one that will make a board to spec. They have narrow boards from the get go too. Made in Silverthorne Colorado


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## Phillip Vainer (Mar 27, 2016)

Man oh man, you all don't know just how grateful I am for this threading actually being a thing. I just had my board stolen so I'm in the market for a new board. My old board was a 2015 157cm Burton Process Off-Axis back when I bought that board I had no idea just how important board width was so I just got a regular width board. Now being in the market again I really want to try to get myself the best board possible especially a board that takes into account my foot size.

Body details:
-Foot size : 25cm (currently wear size 7 RIDE Anthem and i love them)
-Weight: 160lbs
-Height: 5 foot 9 exactly

I'm looking for a strong all mountain board that I can use to really charge down the mountain on. So overall something that is stable in powder and steeper runs but I do like to dabble around at the park occasionally. 

Again I'm really glad there are people out there with the same problem as me! Thank you in advanced for any advice you all can share with me.


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## Kenai (Dec 15, 2013)

Phillip Vainer said:


> Man oh man, you all don't know just how grateful I am for this threading actually being a thing. I just had my board stolen so I'm in the market for a new board. My old board was a 2015 157cm Burton Process Off-Axis back when I bought that board I had no idea just how important board width was so I just got a regular width board. Now being in the market again I really want to try to get myself the best board possible especially a board that takes into account my foot size.
> 
> Body details:
> -Foot size : 25cm (currently wear size 7 RIDE Anthem and i love them)
> ...


My boots are 25 but my foot is only 24.3. Last season I picked up a 156 Flight Attendant with a WW of 248. That was one of the narrowest mass market boards I found. Overall I've loved it, but this year I found some super heavy deep snow and I wasn't happy with the float in those specific conditions (I weigh 170 and was wearing a pack). It was fine on the steep, but I had to work to keep the nose up on mild slopes. As a general all-mountain board it is fantastic.

Where are you? I'd be happy to let you try mine if you are in the NE (or Tahoe in a couple weeks).


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## Phillip Vainer (Mar 27, 2016)

Kenai said:


> My boots are 25 but my foot is only 24.3. Last season I picked up a 156 Flight Attendant with a WW of 248. That was one of the narrowest mass market boards I found. Overall I've loved it, but this year I found some super heavy deep snow and I wasn't happy with the float in those specific conditions (I weigh 170 and was wearing a pack). It was fine on the steep, but I had to work to keep the nose up on mild slopes. As a general all-mountain board it is fantastic.
> 
> Where are you? I'd be happy to let you try mine if you are in the NE (or Tahoe in a couple weeks).



Thanks hella for the advice. I live in Reno NV which is minutes from tahoe. Shoot me a message closer to the date of your trip to tahoe and i'll see if i can swing by the slopes to test it out!


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## Phillip Vainer (Mar 27, 2016)

Hey man do you have any knowledge on the CAPiTA NAS 2015/2016 156cm?? That board has a WW of 245mm.


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## Kenai (Dec 15, 2013)

Phillip Vainer said:


> Thanks hella for the advice. I live in Reno NV which is minutes from tahoe. Shoot me a message closer to the date of your trip to tahoe and i'll see if i can swing by the slopes to test it out!


I'll be at Squaw or Alpine Meadows 4/8-10. I just sent you a PM but I don't think you can send any until you have more posts so just check that you got my message.


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## mojo maestro (Jan 6, 2009)

Shouldn't the support group be for the wives and girlfriends?


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## Phillip Vainer (Mar 27, 2016)

Yeah I can't PM just yet. And thanks for the offer dude but i can't afford to buy a day pass. I have a season pass to Northstar, Heavenly, and Kirkwood but i really appreciate the offer.


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## Kenai (Dec 15, 2013)

mojo maestro said:


> Shouldn't the support group be for the wives and girlfriends?


You. Take. That. Back. 

http://www.cnn.com/2016/03/08/health/trump-small-hands-penis/


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## refdog2400 (Mar 24, 2021)

Small boot crew - anyone have experience riding short / fat volume shifted boards like the k2 party platter (142 - 254mm) or telos back/slash (143 - 260mm)? Do they work for smaller foot and lighter riders <130lbs?

Weight is bottom of range for party platter (130-230+lbs) and middle of range for back/slash (up to 150 lbs)


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