# riding without highbacks



## j.gnar (Sep 4, 2009)

has anyone here ever done this? i know there are a few pros that do it, mainly for riding rails, and it seems to be gaining some popularity. i skate a LOT and i'm curious about trying it out this weekend. just looking for feedback, whether its positive or negative, and what your experience was if youve ridden without em


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## Redline (Jan 14, 2014)

What is this '95? If you like getting no response on your healside edge then yeah, its a great idea. Midas well run a baseless binding too while your at it.


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## Dcp584 (Sep 10, 2007)

Yea on the first rental board I ever rode 16yrs ago with those ridiculous clip in bindings. I don't see any point or benefit in riding without your highbacks.


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## tonicusa (Feb 27, 2008)

Just picked these up today!


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## speedjason (May 2, 2013)

I guess boots nowadays are stiff enough you can ride without highback.
I know my F3.0 is plenty stiff.


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## Mystery2many (Aug 14, 2013)

My Ride Rodeo bindings' highback is so soft it's almost like it's not there. I wouldn't recommend it for all mountain riding but I can see its purpose for park and street riding.


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## Redline (Jan 14, 2014)

To my eyes and taste those bindings look like complete garbage. As long as you're stoked. To each his own.


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## tonicusa (Feb 27, 2008)

They come with the regular highback too. Definitely not garbage, very well made. I have no idea how they ride yet.


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## Redline (Jan 14, 2014)

A buddy of mine had some Now bindings with a highback similar to that mid size one. You could almost twist the back completely around. They worked well for the way he likes to ride. They are entirely too soft for my style of riding. I'm not saying they are literally garbage, just far from ideal for my particular taste.


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## tonicusa (Feb 27, 2008)

Yeah but you can't judge bindings that way anymore. I have the Burton Genesis and you can do the same thing to the highback but they are responsive. Same with the ridiculously flexy Flux RL. Some of these new composites are really responsive when free riding and seem flimsy like you say in person.


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## CassMT (Mar 14, 2013)

those look kinda fun, i'd like to try em in pow with a stiff boot


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## MarshallV82 (Apr 6, 2011)

My buddy rides with no high-backs (Nitro Raidens) in the park. 

I think he's a dumbass. :dunno:


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## chad23 (Oct 13, 2011)

Hey OP I just started riding with no highbacks this year (about 20 days so far) on my burton missions. I agree that it works great for park and groomers, I guess the only drawback is losing a small amount of heel power when riding steeps. I did notice that on cat tracks I don't experience as much calf pain when I'm riding on my heel edge. It hasn't hindered my progression at all this year, realistically the only way to be a better snowboarder is to be on the hill more. Try it out and let us know how you felt about it.


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## j.gnar (Sep 4, 2009)

im gonna try it out tomorrow and see how it goes. the mountain i ride is basically 100% park so im not worried about not having the heel response on steeps. ill report back late tomorrow and let you guys know how it feels


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## aiidoneus (Apr 7, 2011)

It seems to be more of a pow thing. Things I will be trying this season:

- No boarding (no bindings)
- No highbacks
- Snowskate

Just picked up one of these to mess around with: Let's Play - Snowskate Video | Ambition Snowskates

Love it so far.

I get that a lot of people here are hardcore 'response', 'stiffness' ... blah blah .. I just like having fun and trying sh!t


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## j.gnar (Sep 4, 2009)

tried it out, it was fun for ~5 runs or so but after a gnarly edge catch at high speed and having little to no load up for front side spins i decided to go back to highbacks haha


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## chiburiv (Jan 30, 2016)

Yes - I ride all the time with no high backs. I've snowboarded for over 20 years and a qualified instructor. Basically if you are snowboarding properly you should be stacked using your core to drive your edges the full length of your board. All learners start by trying to turn with upper body, the better you get the turn initiation gets closer to the edges of your board. Pretty much all intermediate snowboarders counter rotate in their turns - if you want progress then this needs to be corrected. The high back means you're relying on your lower calves to initiate the turn and hold the edge. Once you have really good edge control using your toes and heals to initiate the turn and hold the edge you don't need them any more. Turns should be initiated with toes and heals allowing your body to be dynamic over the board to drive the edges using the full length of the board using fore and aft movement. If you're over relying on your high backs to hold your edge then it's because you're in the wrong position. I'll never ride with high backs ever again; I have super responsive control and freedom to move where I need to be over my board. It's very unforgiving however you must be stacked over your edges all throughout your turns absolutely no counter rotating otherwise you'll have much less control. It's also hard work if you're not used to it. If you take them off and find you have less control then you're not ready yet and still trying to turn your board too far away from your edges and it shows that your edge sensitivity can still be improved.


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## ridinbend (Aug 2, 2012)

I have the low back pieces for my NOW drives and love them in powder. Once you get onto groomed stuff it's not as easy to ride but still not that difficult. Gives me way more front side slash power. No reason to hate when something enhances the sensation of pow surfing.


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## highme (Dec 2, 2012)

ridinbend said:


> I have the low back pieces for my NOW drives and love them in powder. Once you get onto groomed stuff it's not as easy to ride but still not that difficult. Gives me way more front side slash power. No reason to hate when something enhances the sensation of pow surfing.


I grabbed some Now Selects from the Next Adventure basement for dirt cheap a few weeks ago, and they only have the low backs. Theu are missing a couple of bushings otherwise I would have mounted them to my Derby Snake. Gonna get some replacements sent my way so I can give that a go.


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

chiburiv said:


> If you're over relying on your high backs to hold your edge then it's because you're in the wrong position. I'll never ride with high backs ever again; I have super responsive control and freedom to move where I need to be over my board. It's very unforgiving however you must be stacked over your edges all throughout your turns absolutely no counter rotating otherwise you'll have much less control. It's also hard work if you're not used to it. If you take them off and find you have less control then you're not ready yet and still trying to turn your board too far away from your edges and it shows that your edge sensitivity can still be improved.


Interesting read and makes me think that it may be a good way to refine ones technique to take them off for some time. (I'm sure that turn initiation wouldn't be a big difference for me, but I rely a lot on the highback leverage pushing through backside carves, I'm pretty sure I couldn't if you'd take 'em away....)


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## ridinbend (Aug 2, 2012)

neni said:


> Interesting read and makes me think that it may be a good way to refine ones technique to take them off for some time. (I'm sure that turn initiation wouldn't be a big difference for me, but I rely a lot on the highback leverage pushing through backside carves, I'm pretty sure I couldn't if you'd take 'em away....)


You need to do some surfing.


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

ridinbend said:


> You need to do some surfing.


Haha, take a map and look where Switzerland is... we can only surf with the help of sails or kites


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## Argo (Feb 25, 2010)

neni said:


> Haha, take a map and look where Switzerland is... we can only surf with the help of sails or kites


Don't forget airplanes, to get you to the beach.


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

Argo said:


> Don't forget airplanes, to get you to the beach.


If I hop on an airplane, the intend is to bring me to pow. Priorities  snow wins over beach


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## Clayton Bigsby (Oct 23, 2012)

neni said:


> If I hop on an airplane, the intend is to bring me to pow. Priorities  snow wins over beach


Spoken like a true Swiss (as I am), just last night my wife and I went out to dinner with my riding buddy and his wife, after dinner we were saying good bye and I said "pray for snow", then my wife followed that with pray for sun Hawaii, I told her to have fun:laugh2:


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## Ciscokid22 (Jun 28, 2015)

*I've been on my NOW Drives with lowbacks most of the season.*

I have noticed a slight loss of heel edge control when I try and lay out a real aggressive carve on that side, but I like the response and feeling better for everything else I have done- moguls, steeps, POW, park jumps, and just playing around on the mountain. I do ride in very stiff boots. The other pair of bindings I have mounted on my other board I use regularly are some Ride El Hefes, which are pretty damn stiff. I also have some Union Factory's and Burton Cartels on the shelf, I don't like those as much as the 2 sets of bindings I'm using. I don't think I would like a more conventional binding without highbacks, but I really feel like the NOWs help transmit pressure to edge better. You will always see ignorant haters saying "that looks stupid" or "go back to the 90's" but most of them haven't actually tried anything different in a decade or 2.


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## kimchijajonshim (Aug 19, 2007)

I'm riding most days in Now Drives without highbacks. I find I like it a lot better. I maybe feel a touch less aggressive on heelside carves (rode highbacks for the first time this season last week when I was traveling and had to rent), but the ankle mobility and freedom is well worth it. I feel like absorb shock and bumps way better without highbacks. I tested it out end of last season, lost my highbacks over the off season, and don't really mind too much. It's a fun, different ride.

That said, I rode some Nitro Teams last week and enjoyed the more precise feel too. I'll probably switch back and forth between the two depending on conditions and how I feel.

Keep in mind Nows are specifically built to be ridden without highbacks, so can't comment on how this would work versus a DIY set up of just pulling highbacks off a Burton or something).


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## Dani-K (Oct 13, 2020)

I ride on Old metal bindings. I got it when i was about 13 and to this day i love the ride. I took the highbacks off a number of years ago and will never go back. i even rented a board at aximer Lizum in Austrian Alps and made the shop take the Highbacks off. the difference is amazing the If you like more natural control of a board. leave the highbacks at home.


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## tanscrazydaisy (Mar 11, 2013)

j.gnar said:


> has anyone here ever done this? i know there are a few pros that do it, mainly for riding rails, and it seems to be gaining some popularity. i skate a LOT and i'm curious about trying it out this weekend. just looking for feedback, whether its positive or negative, and what your experience was if youve ridden without em


Years ago, as a noob the rental bindings were step-ins (not to be confused with Burton step-ins that was introduced at least a decade later) that had no highbacks

Sent from my moto x4 using Tapatalk


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## Manicmouse (Apr 7, 2014)

tanscrazydaisy said:


> Years ago, as a noob the rental bindings were step-ins (not to be confused with Burton step-ins that was introduced at least a decade later) that had no highbacks
> 
> Sent from my moto x4 using Tapatalk


The boots had those metal parts sticking out the sides? Snow got in the mechanism and made them hard to use? They were totally shit! Used those my first time snowboarding in the mid 90s...


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## WigMar (Mar 17, 2019)

Yeah, those early step-ins were really, really bad. I was blown away when I got actual bindings.


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## tanscrazydaisy (Mar 11, 2013)

Manicmouse said:


> The boots had those metal parts sticking out the sides? Snow got in the mechanism and made them hard to use? They were totally shit! Used those my first time snowboarding in the mid 90s...


Those. I hated them

Sent from my moto x4 using Tapatalk


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## YourMomsNewFriend (Sep 13, 2020)

Yes. I also snowboarded with no bindings at all. Also no boots. And there was no board underneath my feet either. 

It was summer too so there was no snow. Not a mountain in sight for sure. 

And we didn't even have a slope or knew what snowboarding was. Yeahhhh. Those were the good ol' days.


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## Kijima (Mar 3, 2019)

I believe highbacks actually hurt heel turn performance, they keep you on top of the board, when leaning away from the board is a very effective method for stacking your weight over the heel edge. If you do lean over enough to stack the weight nicely you end up with board angles that are very high and that is bad news for booting out, excessive decambering and loss of edge as the board approaches 90 degrees.
Forward lean is responsible for the skidded heel turn pandemic that snowboarding has accepted as normal.


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## Kijima (Mar 3, 2019)

I did this turn on flow bindings with the highbacks leaning back as far as possible, which is a lot when both cables are in the rearward holes.
You can see that the front leg is almost straight and its relationship to the board is an obtuse angle, (reverse forward lean).
If I had forward lean cranked up it would force one of two scenarios.
1. The board angle would become much greater and I would lose my edge as it approached 90 degrees, or
2. I would be forced up on top of the board more and then I would not have my weight stacked so effectively on the heel edge causing the turn to skid.


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## DaveMcI (Aug 19, 2013)

The skidded turn pandemic is real people!


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## Kijima (Mar 3, 2019)

DaveMcI said:


> The skidded turn pandemic is real people!


Its coming soon to a hill near you lol


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## DaveMcI (Aug 19, 2013)

We can call it the noob flu


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## Kijima (Mar 3, 2019)

Face masks are not effective in stopping transmission either.


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## DaveMcI (Aug 19, 2013)

That's why we must remove our high backs and put them our face


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## Scalpelman (Dec 5, 2017)

Kijima said:


> Forward lean is responsible for the skidded heel turn pandemic that snowboarding has accepted as normal.


Quote of the season.


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## bseracka (Nov 14, 2011)

And here I thought the skidded turn phenomenon was due to the good ride rating the ability of boards to skid turns like it’s a metric for judging boards, or some new party trick


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