# Do you even surfy?



## bazman (Jan 15, 2017)

I'm a proficient snowboarder and windsurfer and an average surfer so do have an option on this.

For me surfy means some steering at the ankles. For snowboarding that means boots/bindings that aren't too stiff. When it comes to boards though I class a responsive board as surfy as that matches response of a surfboard.

In powder is different - everything is surfy!


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## Snowdaddy (Feb 2, 2018)

Paxford said:


> I don’t think the snowboard industry knows much about surfing yet they throw the term surfy around often. Apparently it’s a buzzword that sells. That same crap gets repeated in forum discussions. Exceptions for me are when snowboard companies work with a surfboard shaper like Matt Biolos, Chris Christenson, etc. Full disclosure I haven’t ridden their shapes but I would wager they are as close as you can get to surfing the white wave with similar mechanics to actual surfing. Perhaps the term surfy has been created by snowboarders to mean something that varies from the actual mechanics of surfing?
> 
> If you surf and snow board at a high level I’d like to hear your thoughts on what characteristics in board, boots and bindings you’d define as “surfy”.
> 
> ...


To me, surfy is when the board moves dynamically under you without any effort. Like when you glide in powder and the board just floats and turns under you. I suppose a carving turn could be surfy as well, like if it made round smooth arcs effortlessly.

But also a combination... like when you carve up into a powder bank on the side of the piste and you slash and glide to get back into the piste.

I'm not a wave surfer (even if I would love to). I've done wind surfing and wake boarding, but powder and carving kinda beats it all.


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## snoway (Jan 25, 2017)

For me surfy is slashing in the powder on a powder board riding off the back foot - which is the closest to surfing that you can do on snow. I have surfed for most of my life and snowboarded for a few years. They are totally different things but a surfy snowboard is a loose snowboard that lets you float and slash in the soft snow or fresh powder.


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## benjinyc (Feb 24, 2017)

I surf

when you're doing all your turns off your backfoot, which has to be in deep pow (can't do that on groomers or packed because it looks whack)

looks like some people even remove their highbacks or swap them for lowbacks to maximize that effect

https://www.instagram.com/p/BQPPxDzgQlj/


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## benjinyc (Feb 24, 2017)

Paxford said:


> when snowboard companies work with a surfboard shaper like Matt Biolos, Chris Christenson


All their boards have a hull, right?, I heard that the 420 powder hull by Yes is supposed to mimick that 'surfy' effect too


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

Referring to a "surfy" snowboard... on groomers = :death:

Surfy = turn the snowboard by using the entire board's surface and initiating turns with the back foot.


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## SlvrDragon50 (Mar 25, 2017)

F1EA said:


> Referring to a "surfy" snowboard... on groomers = :death:
> 
> Surfy = turn the snowboard by using the entire board's surface and initiating turns with the back foot.


That's how I've always interpreted surfy.


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## Argo (Feb 25, 2010)

Snowboarding in real powder, and knowing how to do it right, will give you the "surfy" feel. Groomers cant ever be considered surfy...


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## tokyo_dom (Jan 7, 2013)

I snowboard to snowboard. If i wanted surfy, i would grab a wetsuit and a board, and head to the beach (I have a friend that surfs all year round). But then i cant surf, so I probably wouldnt be very successful.


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## Scalpelman (Dec 5, 2017)

I don’t surf. I interpret surfy as sloppy. Imprecise turns. Bad carving. Also agree that everything is surfy in deep pow.


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## poser (Mar 7, 2018)

Somewhat experienced surfer, advanced snowboarder. “Surfy” describes fluidity and a state of relaxation -you’re not relying on body tension and precise turns, rather glide and response to the conditions. It’s more of a reactionary and passive state. As mentioned above, the board does much of the work. (Not to imply that surfing can’t be aggressive, proactive and hard charging).


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## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

I've tried surfing...I suck....but surfy requires 1) nice pow, 2) enough slope/angle, 3) skillz and lastly the board is the least factor...of surfy.


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## Craig64 (Jul 16, 2015)

snoway said:


> For me surfy is slashing in the powder on a powder board riding off the back foot - which is the closest to surfing that you can do on snow. I have surfed for most of my life and snowboarded for a few years. They are totally different things but a surfy snowboard is a loose snowboard that lets you float and slash in the soft snow or fresh powder.


This is correct. I surfed to a very competent/competitive level for numerous decades. As a result my riding style is probably greatly effected by my surfing evolution. Now......, I just love everything about snowboarding. I love smashing out back foot turns, slashes and re-entry type cutback S's which are so easy to transfer from surfing into the powder. When riding...., I'll always try to make my boards perform a bit "Surfy" by setting it back, making the tail feel light and cranking it of the back foot whenever I can.


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## Paxford (Jan 7, 2019)

Absolutely fascinating. Your responses vary quite a bit. I thought surfy described a snowboard designed to mimic surfing in any terrain. Where you pick the best line for a surfy flow, laying in to your turns, ripping what's asking for it and leaving the rest be. As if you were ripping a perfect day on your shortboard, but the ride doesn't end in 30 seconds, it keeps on going through the trees, down the steeps ... and if all you have is groomers then you carve that up too. Pow is clearly preferred but not necessary in my book. Maybe it's a pipe dream. I thought the intent of companies pairing up with shapers was to explore what could be made to further this style of riding. I didn't think it was to just to sell pow boards made by shapers. Maybe it was though.


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

Scalpelman said:


> I don’t surf. I interpret surfy as sloppy. Imprecise turns. Bad carving. Also agree that everything is surfy in deep pow.


Absolutely not.

Doesn't have to be sloppy, or imprecise... and for sure it's not bad carving because it's not even carving. It's something different altogether, and can certainly be very precise and very clean.

Also, not everything is surfy in deep snow. But a board can only be truly surfy in deep pow.


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

Paxford said:


> Absolutely fascinating. Your responses vary quite a bit. I thought surfy described a snowboard designed to mimic surfing in any terrain. Where you pick the best line for a surfy flow, laying in to your turns, ripping what's asking for it and leaving the rest be. As if you were ripping a perfect day on your shortboard, but the ride doesn't end in 30 seconds, it keeps on going through the trees, down the steeps ... and if all you have is groomers then you carve that up too. Pow is clearly preferred but not necessary in my book. Maybe it's a pipe dream. I thought the intent of companies pairing up with shapers was to explore what could be made to further this style of riding. I didn't think it was to just to sell pow boards made by shapers. Maybe it was though.


It can definitely be an 'approach' to riding.

See Travis Rice and Victor de le Rue.... not surfy.

See Austin Smith and the japanese pow surf crew... surfy. And extremely precise and clean.

I guess you can have a certain style that transfers to how you ride groomers. But at that point it's not the board being surfy. It's you having a surfy style...

Manufacturers make and market everything to sell boards. That's fine. But the initial idea is more like you said... shaped boards made to further that style, that philosophy.

What a lot of people now refer to as surfy has just been "dumbed" down because a lot of people will never get it and yeah then will be confused with sloppy.... far from it.

Think... marihuana, not cocaine


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## Paxford (Jan 7, 2019)

benjinyc said:


> All their boards have a hull, right?, I heard that the 420 powder hull by Yes is supposed to mimick that 'surfy' effect too


All those boards are considered hulls, the whole board. Any snowboard is a hull. I think your asking if their nose is designed differently. They are different, the storm chaser being the outlier with a displacement design compared to the convex planing design of the nose on the 420 board and the flat planing design on the Mayhem.


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## Craig64 (Jul 16, 2015)

F1EA said:


> It can definitely be an 'approach' to riding.
> 
> See Travis Rice and Victor de le Rue.... not surfy.
> 
> ...


That's right, when you snowboard piste like conditions you are riding traditionally from the front edges which allows the ability in setting up your turns. In powder however, you ride so much more of the back foot which exactly mimics surfing......, set a line with the front foot and smash out a powder shower with the back foot. Heaven.


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## Paxford (Jan 7, 2019)

F1EA said:


> It can definitely be an 'approach' to riding.
> 
> See Travis Rice and Victor de le Rue.... not surfy.
> 
> ...


Yes to japanese pow surf style and also to what's going on at Mt. Bachelor. And 100% yes to precision.

But I'm not sold on the board not mattering on the groomers. Alot of what I see from Japan is on surf style boards on groomers. Of course ripping groomers can also be done on a camber twin, I'm just saying it might be easier to ride surf style clean, or take it to the next level entirely, with a board designed for surfing.


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## nuisanceIV (Mar 21, 2018)

I just snowboard. Tried surfing a couple of times and wouldn't mind getting into it over the summer but I live a good 4 hours from the ocean, but that's no excuse

I've always thought of it as being "smooth". When I'm blasting down smooth groomers in hardboots on an alpine board, making very fluid turns that are consistent and not sudden/erratic, or riding untracked powder it feels I guess what you can call "surfy".

Snowboarding needs to stop taking all its things from other sports imo so I sort of have to agree :shrug:


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

Paxford said:


> Yes to japanese pow surf style and also to what's going on at Mt. Bachelor. And 100% yes to precision.
> 
> But I'm not sold on the board not mattering on the groomers. Alot of what I see from Japan is on surf style boards on groomers. Of course ripping groomers can also be done on a camber twin, I'm just saying it might be easier to ride surf style clean, or take it to the next level entirely, with a board designed for surfing.


The thing is... when you're riding a groomer, very little of the board's surface is in contact w the snow. Most of it it's sidecut. Yes, some setback and taper will influence how it behaves; but that has almost nothing to do with the shape itself.

In contrast... on powder you find most of the board's surface is in contact with the snow and because you're using all that surface in your turns and to guide your flow, the shape matters.


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## Scalpelman (Dec 5, 2017)

F1EA said:


> Absolutely not.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




To the OP, it’s MY interpretation of surfy in a snowboard review. I steer away from “surfy” with preference to “locked in” and “edge to edge transfer” and “float in powder”. I can ride any board from the back foot, but some boards are better. I can slash any board. Surfy doesn’t tell me anything. I think it’s just some zen bs to get me to buy the board. I would rather have better descriptive words in a snowboard review rather than a term with such a loose and varied interpretation.


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## MrDavey2Shoes (Mar 5, 2018)

Paxford said:


> Absolutely fascinating. Your responses vary quite a bit. I thought surfy described a snowboard designed to mimic surfing in any terrain. Where you pick the best line for a surfy flow, laying in to your turns, ripping what's asking for it and leaving the rest be. As if you were ripping a perfect day on your shortboard, but the ride doesn't end in 30 seconds, it keeps on going through the trees, down the steeps ... and if all you have is groomers then you carve that up too. Pow is clearly preferred but not necessary in my book. Maybe it's a pipe dream. I thought the intent of companies pairing up with shapers was to explore what could be made to further this style of riding. I didn't think it was to just to sell pow boards made by shapers. Maybe it was though.


I've thought the same way. I think you can surf on groomers. Of course its not like powder...
Theres no reason you can't throw cut back turns in the build up on the side of a trail or on the sides of large kicker landings/hip features. I think the board plays a factor. On my Gnu Spam I can ride off the back foot on anything except very hard/icy conditions. C3 camber with early rise is nice for going between locked in carves and loose surfy riding. On the other hand my full camber stiff board is not going to play ball...


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## poser (Mar 7, 2018)

Paxford said:


> Absolutely fascinating. Your responses vary quite a bit. I thought surfy described a snowboard designed to mimic surfing in any terrain. Where you pick the best line for a surfy flow, laying in to your turns, ripping what's asking for it and leaving the rest be. As if you were ripping a perfect day on your shortboard, but the ride doesn't end in 30 seconds, it keeps on going through the trees, down the steeps ... and if all you have is groomers then you carve that up too. Pow is clearly preferred but not necessary in my book. Maybe it's a pipe dream. I thought the intent of companies pairing up with shapers was to explore what could be made to further this style of riding. I didn't think it was to just to sell pow boards made by shapers. Maybe it was though.




I own a Jones Storm Chaser, which, could arguably be the design most representative of this “surfy” ideal on the market at time of writing. I’ve had it out 7-8x this season as we’ve had a big season in the Southwest. The thing is, the “surfy” effect of that spooned out nose doesn’t activate until you are riding at least 6 inches, probably more like 8-10 inches of powder. In 4 inches of powder, the nose dances around a bit (kind of unstable but still very fun). I do not see how this design can apply to groomers to achieve a “surfy” feel. I am aware that some people justify the purchase of a SC in an area that doesn’t get big snow by saying “it’s more than A powder board” and, sure, you can ride it on anything, but it’s not “surfy” until there is enough snow for the nose to push snow laterally and the amount of rocker keeps the nose pretty clear of contact on groomers. 

If we are comparing snowboarding to surfing on water, than I think that volume displacement, be it snow or water, is central to the definition and you just aren’t displacing much volume on groomers.


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## SteezyRidah303 (Oct 5, 2010)

Paxford said:


> If you snowboard only I’d like to hear what surfy means to you. I’m guessing I’ll disagree but let’s see how this goes.



Ive surfed once in my life on a vacation and the waves were pretty small.

For me "Surfy" means loose. soft everything, The angles have room to move when leaning opposed to a stiff setup where any movement gets immediately translated into the board. I call my lib tech Mayhem with switchback BACKLESS bindings "surfy" because the lack of a high back makes the board much less responsive giving a unique sensation that i would assume is similar to surfing.. I only use the term in reference to deep snow, you will never get a "surfy" feel on the groomers, its got to feel bottomless, in which case soft/backless bindings and soft boots provide a uniqe feeling. 


Honestly i see your frustration and I'd go as far to say that it was given completely new meaning in the snowboard community that isnt necessarily accurate. But, when used in context I feel like it gets the point across without having to define it...I guess we should be using the term... Surf-LIKE?


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## BoardieK (Dec 21, 2015)

I think the term "Surfy" is coined to appeal to those riding powder.

However, I think anyone who has ridden big waves would agree that the best comparison in snowboarding would be driving big carves across wide empty pistes.

ps. and if it's on a camber board so much the better!


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## Paxford (Jan 7, 2019)

poser said:


> Somewhat experienced surfer, advanced snowboarder. “Surfy” describes fluidity and a state of relaxation -you’re not relying on body tension and precise turns, rather glide and response to the conditions. It’s more of a reactionary and passive state. As mentioned above, the board does much of the work. (Not to imply that surfing can’t be aggressive, proactive and hard charging).


Poser I think your answer is one of the best, but especially because of the disclaimer at the end about power surfing. I like riding my snowboard like a shortboard. In powder my riding becomes more like I'm on a longboard, more float, less inputs. I'm basically trying to reach my flow state, but my goal is to power surf my way there, not cruise my way there like riding a longboard.



poser said:


> I own a Jones Storm Chaser, which, could arguably be the design most representative of this “surfy” ideal on the market at time of writing. I’ve had it out 7-8x this season as we’ve had a big season in the Southwest. The thing is, the “surfy” effect of that spooned out nose doesn’t activate until you are riding at least 6 inches, probably more like 8-10 inches of powder. In 4 inches of powder, the nose dances around a bit (kind of unstable but still very fun). I do not see how this design can apply to groomers to achieve a “surfy” feel. I am aware that some people justify the purchase of a SC in an area that doesn’t get big snow by saying “it’s more than A powder board” and, sure, you can ride it on anything, but it’s not “surfy” until there is enough snow for the nose to push snow laterally and the amount of rocker keeps the nose pretty clear of contact on groomers.
> 
> If we are comparing snowboarding to surfing on water, than I think that volume displacement, be it snow or water, is central to the definition and you just aren’t displacing much volume on groomers.


What length Storm Chaser? Just thinking if it's longer and you are light that may be part of the nose issue you mentioned. Also how hard you push it and how much you engage your front foot. I'm not too concerned about a lack of buoyancy with the chaser. Not because I think it will float, but because no board I'm aware of will in hardpack. I'm more concerned about not riding my camber board in hardpack. If the nose won't engage at all then I see your concern. I've seen boards ride like that, not a huge fan.




SteezyRidah303 said:


> Ive surfed once in my life on a vacation and the waves were pretty small.
> 
> For me "Surfy" means loose. soft everything, The angles have room to move when leaning opposed to a stiff setup where any movement gets immediately translated into the board. I call my lib tech Mayhem with switchback BACKLESS bindings "surfy" because the lack of a high back makes the board much less responsive giving a unique sensation that i would assume is similar to surfing.. I only use the term in reference to deep snow, you will never get a "surfy" feel on the groomers, its got to feel bottomless, in which case soft/backless bindings and soft boots provide a uniqe feeling.
> 
> ...


Surf-like makes more sense. In my opinion a loose connection to your equipment is not surf-like. I'm getting the impression people see surfers slipping all over the water and must think we are always on the edge of control, all loosey goosey but somehow we pull it off. Not the case. My shortboard feels solid to my feet most of the time. If you know how to shortboard well you can be locked in until you intentionally break the bond, or fall. If your just learning then surfing feels loose for sure, but learners do not display the surf-style I'd go for. You can make the overall ride look loose to others by slashing about, but your connection to your board is not loose by nature. You've got gravity and additional G's bearing down for most of the ride.



Scalpelman said:


> To the OP, it’s MY interpretation of surfy in a snowboard review. I steer away from “surfy” with preference to “locked in” and “edge to edge transfer” and “float in powder”. I can ride any board from the back foot, but some boards are better. I can slash any board. Surfy doesn’t tell me anything. I think it’s just some zen bs to get me to buy the board. I would rather have better descriptive words in a snowboard review rather than a term with such a loose and varied interpretation.


Those are some wise words Scalpelman. 



BoardieK said:


> I think the term "Surfy" is coined to appeal to those riding powder.
> 
> However, I think anyone who has ridden big waves would agree that the best comparison in snowboarding would be driving big carves across wide empty pistes.
> 
> ps. and if it's on a camber board so much the better!


That's rad. I'd add driving frontside top to bottom on a wall with big carving bottom turns and mix of carves and snaps off the top. That rythm is unmistakable. I ride camber. I don't love it's entry to the ramp of a wall and suspect rocker would do better, but on piste it's magic. Decisions.


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## keel_bright (Jan 13, 2013)

The WORST is the word "backcountry". Every product is backcountry this backcountry that. This would be great for backcountry, that's great for backcountry. Look at the fucking 'Terrain' slider on Burton's website. I remember one specific instance of talking to people on the mountain who said they were doing backcountry. Over the course of my conversation with them it became apparent to me that they basically meant "off-piste" the whole time.

Yo. The backcountry kills people every year. It is LETHAL. Venturing there requires training, commitment, and discipline. Stop fucking making light of it.


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## drblast (Feb 28, 2017)

I'm not a good surfer but I know how it feels.

With regard to snowboarding, I think of surfy as you're turning from the back of the board. That almost always happens in deep powder when you're trying to float, but I also get that feeling on S-Rocker type boards with taper where the shorter cambered tail digs into the snow and lets you drive from the back foot a bit.

I have a 159 Rome Mod (twin), and a 159W Mullair (directional taper), both have significant camber but the Mullair feels way more "surfy" in the sense that I'm talking about.

With bindings I assume surfy means "loose" like you're not firmly attached to the board.


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## Craig64 (Jul 16, 2015)

They love using the term "Surfy" on the Goodride.


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

Craig51 said:


> They love using the term "Surfy" on the Goodride.


Bastardizing the essence of surf-inspired snowboarding one review at a time...


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## Paxford (Jan 7, 2019)

SteezyRidah303 said:


> Ive surfed once in my life on a vacation and the waves were pretty small.
> 
> For me "Surfy" means loose. soft everything, The angles have room to move when leaning opposed to a stiff setup where any movement gets immediately translated into the board. I call my lib tech Mayhem with switchback BACKLESS bindings "surfy" because the lack of a high back makes the board much less responsive giving a unique sensation that i would assume is similar to surfing.. I only use the term in reference to deep snow, you will never get a "surfy" feel on the groomers, its got to feel bottomless, in which case soft/backless bindings and soft boots provide a uniqe feeling.


Steezy I keep coming back to "surfy means loose" thinking I'm missing something. I can't ride surf-style safely on piste without quick precision from my equipment, at least not on my current camber board. I'm trying to understand why many of you share the view that pow is the only way. Surfing pow is a less precise, more forgiving "floaty" experience. I think that is what most non-surfers are stuck on being surf-style. I tried imagining what a non-surfer feels in pow ...

If I wasn't already a surfer and I rode pow for the first time I would immediately think the glide and float sensation is surf-like. I'd think about what I've experienced before in piste and would likely conclude it doesn't compare, therefore piste is not surfy. If I then tried backless bindings in pow it might feel even more surf-like due to less response felt through turns compared to piste. That could frame my understanding of "surfy" forevermore. 

That is unless I became at least an intermediate shortboarder. Intermediate shortboarders are pretty damn good in my area. Surfing 10 times isn't good, try say 200 days on a shortboard and 100 days on a longboard before that ... as the bare minimum. I think the surfiness of piste would become clear. Good surfers are drawing surfy lines on a canvas. That's what I do on piste. Joel Parkinson comes to mind as a good example. As I watch him I can see so many parallels to riding piste that you may miss if you don't surf. Don't focus so much on the slashes, focus on what he does leading up to them and after. Try and understand how he positions his body throughout. His movements are to increase glide, not FLOAT. Water is much denser than pow, you don't float on it, you glide on the planing hull of a surfboard due to hydrodynamic force. He's actually reducing float as much as possible, and I think we all agree there's close to zero float going on riding piste.


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## Paxford (Jan 7, 2019)

BTW not claiming I ride anywhere near as good as Parko, just an example.


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## SteezyRidah303 (Oct 5, 2010)

Paxford said:


> Steezy I keep coming back to "surfy means loose" thinking I'm missing something. I can't ride surf-style safely on piste without quick precision from my equipment, at least not on my current camber board. I'm trying to understand why many of you share the view that pow is the only way. Surfing pow is a less precise, more forgiving "floaty" experience. I think that is what most non-surfers are stuck on being surf-style. I tried imagining what a non-surfer feels in pow ...
> 
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9FBX_b0XjLQ


I completely understand what you mean. Makes sense that the buoyancy in water is much higher than snow would feel the opposite of loose. I asked a few of my non surfing friends yesterday on the mountain what they thought surfy meant and most answers were referring to bottomless snow wide slashes out in the open. 

But, one of my friends who surfs at an advanced level (taught in Australia for 3 years) gave a seemingly opposite answer...he says he feels most surf like when ripping thru the trees. Shooting small gaps and going under branches, he thinks its the closest you can get to feeling like you are in barrel...

Made me think the origin of my definition of "surf like snowboarding". When you just swim in water it feels "soft", its tough to understand the bouncy and how locked the edge may feel on a surfboard without having either an understanding of the physics of buoyancy or surfing at an advanced level.

I think that may be where most snowboards get the "loose" idea from. Ground vs water, hard vs soft. The inexperienced surfer (myself) might imagine surfing to feel "softer" under foot than the "hard" groomers, just like deep bottomless powder. therefore making deep powder feel "Surfy".

I am starting to understand how improperly the term is used in the community. But, I would still go as far to say that it has been given new meaning (unfortunately) in the snowboarding community and *most would refer to a soft setup or deep snow as "surfy"....


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## linvillegorge (Jul 6, 2009)

I was surfing in Costa Rica all last week. I got my ass WHOOPED. I don't have a lot of surfing experience but I was okay on the board. It was the paddling out where I was getting wrecked. Spent plenty of time in the washing machine. It's not a coincidence that virtually all regular surfers are in great shape and it's not just because they want a good beach body. That shit is WORK.

In terms of replicating that experience on the snow, you basically need a board built like a surfboard. Lots of rocker, lots of setback, heavily tapered, and pretty stiff. You also need the right type of snow. Coastal "powder" would probably be the closest you could get.


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

Yep, surfing is VERY difficult. People complain about snowboarding and the thing is.... snowboarding you just fall more and potentially hurt some bones when you start; but surfing is just difficult altogether. And a workout.

I grew up surfing and in a surf culture. (Caribbean). I skateboarded much more than I surfed, but all my friends either skate, surf or were body boarders. That was waaaaay before Instagram...

Anyways......... no. Snowboarding on a groomer has nothing to do with surfing. No matter how it gets spun. The PHYSICS (laws of motion) are completely different to riding on a groomer.

You can still have a "surfy" style and translate that to a groomer. But........ water and deep pow have 3 things in common that riding on a groomer does not:

1. You float on powder and water and not on a groomer. This:
_Archimedes' principle states that the upward buoyant force that is exerted on a body immersed in a fluid, whether fully or partially submerged, is equal to the weight of the fluid that the body displaces and acts in the upward direction at the center of mass of the displaced fluid._

This is a VITAL difference. This is the essence of surfing and riding pow because it is how you turn and why humans have come up with the different surf and pow shapes/profiles which are very different from groomer carving boards.

2. You turn with the sidecut on groomers. Not on pow or water. 
Another vital difference which dictates how people turn and why people make certain movements on a surfboard vs ripping a groomer. On water and pow you turn with the board's shape by manipulating buoyancy (see 1).

3. Groomers are man-made. Pow terrain and waves are not.

So please for the love of god........ stop.
or not.

Doesn't matter either way hahahahah


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## snoway (Jan 25, 2017)

F1EA said:


> Yep, surfing is VERY difficult. People complain about snowboarding and the thing is.... snowboarding you just fall more and potentially hurt some bones when you start; but surfing is just difficult altogether. And a workout.
> 
> I grew up surfing and in a surf culture. (Caribbean). I skateboarded much more than I surfed, but all my friends either skate, surf or were body boarders. That was waaaaay before Instagram...
> 
> ...


I grew up surfing too (South Africa - Indian Ocean) and when I finally saw snow everyone told me you can surf so snowboarding will be so easy, you just surf on the snow... these snowboarders had never surfed a day in their lives. Surfing is surfing and snowboarding is snowboarding. Snowboarding was a totally different beast and a very steep learning curve.


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## linvillegorge (Jul 6, 2009)

There are definitely differences between all the board sports whether it's snowboarding, skating, wakeboarding, surfing, or whatever. But I do think already being compentent at one does ease your transition to any of the others if for no other reason than you're already accustomed to standing sideways on a board in motion. Fighting that instinct to square your shoulders to the direction of motion is one of the hardest things you have to fight in the early stages of learning to ride any type of board.


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

linvillegorge said:


> There are definitely differences between all the board sports whether it's snowboarding, skating, wakeboarding, surfing, or whatever. But I do think already being compentent at one does ease your transition to any of the others if for no other reason than you're already accustomed to standing sideways on a board in motion. Fighting that instinct to square your shoulders to the direction of motion is one of the hardest things you have to fight in the early stages of learning to ride any type of board.


Yes to this ^

Most people underestimate the initial learning curve (I know I did)... there will be one. 

BUT if you already can stand sideways on a board and ride relatively well, the full learning curve (meaning progressing past the day 1 kind of stage) will be a quicker and easier transition; so once you start progressing, it can go a lot faster if you do the other board sports. 

I totally under-valued the privilege I had when I could literally surf any day of the year... I should have surfed more.
Living in a small island, there were going to be good or at least decent waves no more than 3.5hr away any day for 12 months of the year. 

I miss that with snowboarding and I hate the 'urgency' and corporate vibe to it.... maybe that makes each awesome day more valuable; but I like the 'lifestyle' part of sports, which I kind of get in winter. But it's not the same; it's so short.....


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## Craig64 (Jul 16, 2015)

F1EA said:


> Yep, surfing is VERY difficult. People complain about snowboarding and the thing is.... snowboarding you just fall more and potentially hurt some bones when you start; but surfing is just difficult altogether. And a workout.
> 
> I grew up surfing and in a surf culture. (Caribbean). I skateboarded much more than I surfed, but all my friends either skate, surf or were body boarders. That was waaaaay before Instagram...
> 
> ...


Yep this is exactly what the term "surfy" relates to as riding in powder is so similar to surfing. The same turns, movements,
doing floaters, snaps, slashes from the back foot in surfing can be mimicked and transfered with similar techniques into snowboarding. Me personally......., I always like to ride like this. On groomers (especially crusty, icy conditions) it's always leaning forward setting the front edge to initiate and effect the turn. I still like banging a slash off a side wall on the piste but I'm generally sliding the tail out here to create a big "surfy" snow spray. With 38 years of surfing and snowboarding together you'll often try to meld them together. 

So you will feel the "surfy" nature of a snowboard always in powder when you steer and drive off the tail. A "surfy" snowboard is one that will effect this sensation easier than others. James from the Goodride absolutely loves using this term as it lets him then go into one of his self relatable yarns about "It's like when I'm riding a 7 foot gun" or "Riding my short twin fin swallow tail". 

Short tailed, tapered, directional, rockered, swallow tailed designs will allow you to feel this "surfy" sensations far easier. I always set my bindings -10 to -20 from reference when there is a hint of fresh snow to assist this "surfy" feel as that's how I like to ride, off the tail when I can. On piste/man made Australian garbage, I'll set up for reference as I'll be riding traditionally with an aggressive carving technique as the key focus.


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## Myoko (Dec 11, 2018)

Surfed and boarded for about 20 years. Rode the board shown for 10 of them until only a few years ago when other short tail options finally came out. Native Snowsurf, no longer available due to one of the boy's parents being lawyers but it was a perfect board for a surfie feel. Couldn't hold an edge to save its life, but was fantastic in powder and particularly in trees. Closest I get to a surfie feel now on a short powder board is when I surf the bank of fresh snow on the edge of groomers, just stay in that pocket until I'm ready to go out and slash it. It's like your pumping along a wave, anyway, it's nice now to come out and hold an edge on a groomer also.


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## Paxford (Jan 7, 2019)

SteezyRidah303 said:


> I completely understand what you mean. Makes sense that the buoyancy in water is much higher than snow would feel the opposite of loose. I asked a few of my non surfing friends yesterday on the mountain what they thought surfy meant and most answers were referring to bottomless snow wide slashes out in the open.
> 
> But, one of my friends who surfs at an advanced level (taught in Australia for 3 years) gave a seemingly opposite answer...he says he feels most surf like when ripping thru the trees. Shooting small gaps and going under branches, he thinks its the closest you can get to feeling like you are in barrel...
> 
> ...


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## Paxford (Jan 7, 2019)

F1EA said:


> Anyways......... no. Snowboarding on a groomer has nothing to do with surfing. No matter how it gets spun. The PHYSICS (laws of motion) are completely different to riding on a groomer.
> 
> 
> You can still have a "surfy" style and translate that to a groomer. But........ water and deep pow have 3 things in common that riding on a groomer does not:
> ...


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## Rip154 (Sep 23, 2017)

Do you even trolly? Let's look at halfpipe, which is closest to riding a breaking wave, aka surfing. What boards are used there? Does anyone call cambered twins surfy? I don't really think it's bad for boardsports to share terms. We can relate to it, and surf any terrain, anywhere at any time.


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

Paxford said:


> ....


Powder snow itself may be entirely made up of solid particles (it isn't... but it's also not as simple because there's lots of other little things at play)... but just like liquified soils, it doesn't behave like a solid, nor entirely as a liquid. So in the end, you still get some modified form of the archimedes principle on powder snow. It's not exactly the same as in water... but for this discussion, close enough. Liquefiable soils are typically made up of really small particles, and the degree of liquefaction depends on saturation (water content) and confining stress (pressure)... very much like powder snow. And hence why dry blower pow is very different from wet pow, and of course packed pow different from fluff.

Just like water... powder can change its physical behaviour due to changes in pressure, temps, etc. Melted pow is not pow anymore and neither is packed pow. Just like frozen water is not a liquid anymore.

You do not need a sidecut to turn in pow. There's the old Burton throwbacks with no edges, no sidecut... and you can turn them in pow. Not so fun on an icy groomer.

Many resorts have man made snow. But more importantly, yes there's man made waves... but the effect on the physical behaviour of the man-made portion on a groomer is way more significant than on a man made wave. 

A man made wave is still made up of water. A groomed slope has completely modified the physical properties of the snow on it and it no longer physically behaves as powder...

:nerd:


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## Paxford (Jan 7, 2019)

Rip154 said:


> Do you even trolly? Let's look at halfpipe, which is closest to riding a breaking wave, aka surfing. What boards are used there? Does anyone call cambered twins surfy? I don't really think it's bad for boardsports to share terms. We can relate to it, and surf any terrain, anywhere at any time.


Ha, just hoping people start thinking about it, like you just did with halfpipe. I think high camber twins on groomers are surfy with the right width board and rider. That's what I ride. I am exploring if there is something better out there to amplify surf-style. Calling a camber board surfy evokes a reaction in snowboarders though. I think people are just afraid to go there because that's carving, eurocarve or switchy butter jibber jab or whatever name they've assigned, and surfy can only be another name they've assigned. 

Halfpipe is not the closest to riding a wave. A breaking wave has a softer shoulder in front of it and a fairly soft breaking lip, at least compared to the solid and vertical lip of a halfpipe. And since the wave only breaks for a moment, the rest of the time it is ridden before breaking. Check out the "surfy" terrain at the Big Wave Challenge, you'll notice the majority of terrain they are shredding is way less vertical than a true pipe. You may also notice it's hardpack :laugh2: At about 2:10 they get to one of my points, that it's about the turns, not the airs.






Notice the riders are favoring riding frontside like you would in surfing. Halfpipe is ridden front and backside in quick succession like two walls, or waves, about to slam in to one another, which we know isn't what generally happens surfing ocean waves. It's just like skateboarding though. A pipe board has high camber for pumping the ramp and control for a clean exit and reentry getting air in the pipe. Neither is a focus of surfing, we just don't pump that way because we don't have another wave standing in front of us to use. We wouldn't ride camber surfboards for more exit/entry control because in general they don't work the rest of the time in water like a flat or rocker board does.


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

haha yeah that's awesome. It's just for fun though. For fun... and to bottle and sell a product.

Same with the early skateboarding days in the 70's... they were basically emulating surfing on pavement or an empty pool etc.


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## 161210 (Feb 9, 2018)

On the binding-less Sims yellow banana from 1978...yes...that is surfing...and it doesn't work in anything but deep pow 

(Sims SkiBoard from 1978....they weren't called snowboards yet back then...I still have mine and still occasionally ride it...that's definitely surfing snow).


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## Fielding (Feb 15, 2015)

I grew up surfing and still surf. But not as much as I snowboard. Snowboarding and surfing are quite different. Buoyancy is a key factor in surfing...less so in snowboarding. When you ride a short surfboard particularly in smaller waves you generate speed and make moves by sinking the tail (or more) of the board and then unweighting it as you turn up the wave. Doing this without losing the wave or falling is difficult for beginners.

Surfing is super difficult to learn. It requires a high level of physicality. Paddling is exhausting. One big problem with learning to surf is that you need good conditions and no crowds. That's hard to find. Waves are inconsistent unless you're in a very special place. Crowds of surfers are not going to be stoked to see you floundering inside of the break and generally being a menace to society with your loose board and all. So you might get punched in the face. That rarely happens when you're snowboarding, probably because everyone is wearing goggles.

I think it's a lot easier to learn to ride a snowboard. It's also easier to have a good day of snowboarding than it is to have a good day of surfing. This holds even if you already know how to surf. Chairlifts provide a chance to rest and a chance to drink beer while you're sporting. None of that in surfing unless you're getting towed out by a jetski. Snow conditions are generally more predictable and consistent than wave conditions. It's easier to find good snow and no crowds than it is to find good waves and no crowds. 

I like to think of the mountain as a wave when I'm snowboarding. I like runs that have a noticeable side pitch so that I can ride like I'm going down the line on a wave. I like to attack the lip and then make fast bottom turns to get back up the face of the mountain-wave. The most surfy snowboard I have in my snowboard quiver is the Dupraz D1 6+. The huge nose on that board allows you to throw the board up the face of the mountain or a side bank in a way that feels kinda like surfing. The floaty, rockered front end adds to the surfing sensation. I rode this board in soft snow yesterday and it was a total blast.


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## Myoko (Dec 11, 2018)

I think surfers will stand on a board slightly different and when under pressure will adopt a similar stance to when they are trying to hold onto a big bottom turn, but snowboarding is now more consistently enjoyable due to the lack of a crowd factor. The sheer competitiveness of just catching a wave these days is not why I surf and if its remotely busy it becomes very competitive. The physics of it is irrelevant to me, how I am feeling doing it, and after it, is different these days. Snowboarding allows you to go where you want, PRACTICE the same thing until you nail it, and you generally will come off the mountain having had a predictable good day, and be in a good head space. To me, both activities are as close as I get to meditation or a religion, but the older I get the more I gravitate towards enjoying snowboarding. Having said that I'm a way better snowboarder than surfer these days and that may affect my thoughts


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## Paxford (Jan 7, 2019)

F1EA said:


> Bastardizing the essence of surf-inspired snowboarding one review at a time...


I share your skepticism about Goodride and marketing in general. But man I think they nailed it on the second video on the page below titled "short/fat/surfy". There's a bunch of people on this thread saying they snowsurf on groomers, mostly surfers, and a bunch of people denying that, mostly snowboarders. If an average snowboarder jumped on a shortboard and could actually ride it well I think they would recognize carving groomers is actually surfing.

https://thegoodride.com/snowboard-riding-styles/


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## Paxford (Jan 7, 2019)

F1EA said:


> Powder snow itself may be entirely made up of solid particles (it isn't... but it's also not as simple because there's lots of other little things at play)... but just like liquified soils, it doesn't behave like a solid, nor entirely as a liquid. So in the end, you still get some modified form of the archimedes principle on powder snow. It's not exactly the same as in water... but for this discussion, close enough. Liquefiable soils are typically made up of really small particles, and the degree of liquefaction depends on saturation (water content) and confining stress (pressure)... very much like powder snow. And hence why dry blower pow is very different from wet pow, and of course packed pow different from fluff.
> 
> Just like water... powder can change its physical behaviour due to changes in pressure, temps, etc. Melted pow is not pow anymore and neither is packed pow. Just like frozen water is not a liquid anymore.
> 
> :nerd:


I've been reviewing the science (the little things) trying to find support for your scientific hypothesis. In the past I've worked extensively on buoyancy related projects using archimedes principal, but only considering liquid water and air, not solid ice nor phase change thermodynamics or pressures in air pores based upon saturation levels. I'm finding "snow science" is a very broad term encompassing many scientific theories about matter and how it behaves. Applying these theories to snow involved lots of assumptions, and those assumptions were made to solve different problems than the one before us. As far as I can tell, nobody has used the scientific method to answer the question of whether there is bouyancy in pow. It would make a great thesis paper. 

I want there to be buoyancy in pow, that's something humans can work with to do good. If I understand correctly your hypothesis is pow behaves like liquified soil. For example less dense objects rise to the surface in quicksand. I doubt this hypothesis is correct based upon the saturation levels and pressure in pow, but I haven't eliminated it entirely. Do you want to discuss further? Or just messing around on a thread? If you want to discuss I'm down but we should start a new thread, it's a pretty dry topic.


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## MrDavey2Shoes (Mar 5, 2018)

I think people are getting hung up on the verbiage here, surfy implies similar or inspired by ...surfing implies surfing ...


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

Paxford said:


> I've been reviewing the science (the little things) trying to find support for your scientific hypothesis. In the past I've worked extensively on buoyancy related projects using archimedes principal, but only considering liquid water and air, not solid ice nor phase change thermodynamics or pressures in air pores based upon saturation levels. I'm finding "snow science" is a very broad term encompassing many scientific theories about matter and how it behaves. Applying these theories to snow involved lots of assumptions, and those assumptions were made to solve different problems than the one before us. As far as I can tell, nobody has used the scientific method to answer the question of whether there is bouyancy in pow. It would make a great thesis paper.
> 
> I want there to be buoyancy in pow, that's something humans can work with to do good. If I understand correctly your hypothesis is pow behaves like liquified soil. For example less dense objects rise to the surface in quicksand. I doubt this hypothesis is correct based upon the saturation levels and pressure in pow, but I haven't eliminated it entirely. Do you want to discuss further? Or just messing around on a thread? If you want to discuss I'm down but we should start a new thread, it's a pretty dry topic.


There absolutely is some sort of buoyancy in powder. Like I said though, float in powder/snow is not as simple as on water because there's other (microscopic) forces working around snow crystals, so it is not entirely buoyancy as we know it through Archimedes; but a couple more concepts together, such as "inverse segregation"... in any case, it's a starting point. You would find research around avalanche airbags on the matter. 

Liquefiable soils are another starting point. The physical behaviour of snow crystals is not exactly the same as liquefiable soils, because again, there are other little forces at play in snow; but it's another starting point. In fact, avalanches can be seen as some sort of liquefaction...


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## Paxford (Jan 7, 2019)

I can accept some sort of definition of buoyancy if we aren't defining the term strictly under archimedes principle. Avalanches is where I started but found the methods of analysis were beyond where the starting point should be in solving this specific buoyancy-pow problem. The little things must be understood first, or else we are basing our conclusions on assumptions about the little things specific to modeling the avalanche problem. I believe the buoyancy-pow problem has to be broken down to the crystals and go up from there through the various scientific theories that can be applied rationally to answer the question.

Thanks for inverse segregation! I'll check it out. Check out sintering, phase change thermodynamics, methods of mass transport, grain boundary, really everything crystals, everything pressure (including pore pressure with air vs. water vapor vs saturated liquid), air and water vapor convection in snow, Colloidial systems, snow metamorphism, and so on. No bouyancy found yet but I am hopeful because I feel something going in pow like everyone else does. I think pressure is going to be a key factor, I'm searching for how pressure can exist in pow in high enough quantities sufficient for the relatively heavy board we ride through it to be bouyant. I don't expect pressure in the temperature gradient between earth and the top of the pow will be enough. Maybe the force of the board when riding is getting the pressure dialed right immediately underfoot for bouyancy to occur, that's my working theory to prove/disprove but first have to get a firm handle on what the snow is like pressure wise before the board hits it. I think it's really low, therefore no buoyancy at that point, but I haven't worked through it entirely.


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## deagol (Mar 26, 2014)

I think there might be "too much thinking" going on in this thread, but with that, I just thought of something: powder (stationary non-avalanching) acts like a compressible solid, in that once you compress it (ride through it) it doesn't rebound. That feels different than buoyancy to me, or at least the kind of buoyancy we think of with water where the water returns to the same surface level once the object being submerged is removed. 

Surfy to me means being able to whip the board around easily, being able to easily change the direction the board is pointing without needing to carve. YMMV. I have surfed a tiny bit, but I suck.


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## Kala (Mar 13, 2018)

Yes, surfy is likely a marketing trick to attract a wider audience. However, with everything we do with this sport there is a fine balance between our pleasure in riding and what marketeers hijack and turn into sellable products. To me, surfy really speaks to the finest elements of snowboarding, that is flotation, wavy gestures, planing (a term borrowed from windsurfing), more pressure to the back leg off turns. This is done in powder per excellence but it can also occur on other terrains too: spring slush and varied snow can accommodate it too. Now, whether carving on hard pack can be considered surfy is a matter of perception. In a way all board sports contain a certain fundamental motif of balancing on a board and gracefully turning it-- so yes it probably can be surfy.


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## Paxford (Jan 7, 2019)

deagol said:


> I think there might be "too much thinking" going on in this thread ...
> 
> Agreed, how about a rad statement or two from Taro Tamai of Gentemstick to brighten everyone's day-
> 
> ...


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## Paxford (Jan 7, 2019)

Paxford said:


> ... Halfpipe is not the closest to riding a wave ...


Need to correct myself here and give RIP154 credit where it's due. Regular sized halfpipe is not the closest to riding a wave ... BUT 18 ft+ Superpipe is damn near the closest thing to riding a wave. In the Superpipe you have enough time/space in between walls to set up and hit the wall with surf style. Regular halfpipe not so much, the walls are too close to one another. My apologies, I haven't had access to a Superpipe until recently.

Now I just want to ride the Superpipe 24/7.


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## WigMar (Mar 17, 2019)

Paxford said:


> Need to correct myself here and give RIP154 credit where it's due. Regular sized halfpipe is not the closest to riding a wave ... BUT 18 ft+ Superpipe is damn near the closest thing to riding a wave. In the Superpipe you have enough time/space in between walls to set up and hit the wall with surf style. Regular halfpipe not so much, the walls are too close to one another. My apologies, I haven't had access to a Superpipe until recently.
> 
> Now I just want to ride the Superpipe 24/7.


It's been so long since I was in one of those. I used to feel like you had to rip through that deathtrap to be cool. Never tried hitting one with surf style, but it sounds rad. Certainly a much safer way to approach those superpipes.


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## Paxford (Jan 7, 2019)

Always thought they were a death trap too, and when they are iced over they are. Let the sun warm up both sides of the pipe and you can surf it like no other structure I’ve found. Feels like a big day but much easier because the pipe ain’t moving like waves/water.


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## DaveMcI (Aug 19, 2013)

As in carving upside down? Aaaaa sheeet!


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## Paxford (Jan 7, 2019)

Yessir, that’s the goal anyways. I need slush and practice. I have a small window of opportunity in the afternoon when the sun finally hits both sides.


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## Paxford (Jan 7, 2019)

Words of wisdom from JJ-


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## Rip154 (Sep 23, 2017)

Surfing isn't just one style, and surfboards ride very differently. Why should surfy in snowboarding narrow itself to a certain style or board? Use whatever terrain you have infront of you, and link up turns from top to bottom with flow, choose a board that works for the conditions and the way you feel like riding. A good quiver should cover alot of different aspects, and the surfstyle companies do that. They don't have the regular freestyle sticks because 95% of the other boards are like that.


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## zc1 (Feb 20, 2017)

The Moss rep at an info session I went to a couple of months ago said "You can snow surf with any board. Our boards just make it easier."


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## Paxford (Jan 7, 2019)

And better on features in critical maneuvers where edges tend to catch.

Right tool for the job, but not the only tool a good rider can surf with. There is a price to be paid, along with gains to be had, with true camber or lots of camber on a stiff plank.

But with other hybrid profiles the price is not as significant.


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## zc1 (Feb 20, 2017)

Paxford said:


> Right tool for the job, but not the only tool a good rider can surf with.


Absolutely. The right tools make any job easier.


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## taco tuesday (Jul 26, 2014)

Orange man is surfy.

No not that orange man, the snowboarding Buddhist one. Kazushi Yamauchi. 

Whether on groomers or powder his style is largely what I think of when hear about surfy snowboarding.


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## WigMar (Mar 17, 2019)

Orangeman is pretty awesome. I like Yo Amagai's style a lot too.


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## WigMar (Mar 17, 2019)

I just found a pretty decent Japanese turning tutorial that's in English. Turns that lead to everything

It seems to be part of a tutorial for sale/rent on Vidmeo. Let's Go Snowboarding! 2


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## Paxford (Jan 7, 2019)

WigMar said:


> I just found a pretty decent Japanese turning tutorial that's in English. Turns that lead to everything
> 
> It seems to be part of a tutorial for sale/rent on Vidmeo. Let's Go Snowboarding! 2


That first vid is great. Sometimes it’s hard to convey in writing what you have in mind. This is what have in mind when I think snowsurf, surfy, surfing the white wave, etc. 

They’ve combined groomer riding, mostly carving with well placed slashes and scrubs, with carving and slashing (rad maneuvers) on 3D terrain.


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## MrDavey2Shoes (Mar 5, 2018)

...ok there is literally nothing in that video that is different from carving properly. I have decided “surfy” is just a new buzz word for carving based free riding. I’m glad we’re all on the same page now


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## Rip154 (Sep 23, 2017)

I mean if you browse through the 90s movies, you find the same riding, but on big mountains and mostly camber boards. The focus was on using terrain better than skiers. If you have big enough terrain and smooth snow, camber works well, and when it get's tighter and slower you can use something that doesn't fight the transitions. This surf inspired thing was going from the start. It started outside the groomed trails, and I guess going away from that has started the decline in many places, both in numbers and style. I guess awesome terrain available from lifts, good shapers and rolemodels is the key. I just notice how all the kids swap from skis to snowboards as soon as they see someone putting down lines in the fresh. It's like they get inspired, or don't actually dare to go out there unless someone opens it up. Many parents now grew up on freestyle sticks, and didn't witness the early days, so it's good to see a revival of sorts.

Funny, I actually have that Let's Go video on dvd, some nice riding in it.


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## zc1 (Feb 20, 2017)

😂


MrDavey2Shoes said:


> ...ok there is literally nothing in that video that is different from carving properly. I have decided “surfy” is just a new buzz word for carving based free riding. I’m glad we’re all on the same page now



Realistically, there are only three things that a board can do on the snow -- slide, carve or flat base. So if all you focus on is the board, then yes, all styles of riding look the same since they're all combinations of those three activities.

For me, snow "surfing" is about (1) the rider's inputs, style, flow; (2) the choice of terrain and lines. Snow surfing looks like surfing waves -- a lot of upper body movement, generation of torque in the upper body and transmitting that to the lower body and eventually the board to pump, perform slashes, cutbacks, off the lips, etc. -- I aspire to be able to ride like this.


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## MrDavey2Shoes (Mar 5, 2018)

Aka carving, turning and skidding lol. I’m not looking at a board, that’s a weird thing to do. I’m looking at a snowboarder snowboarding. Unless you were watching a different video 

Listen I get it, we’re all happy that the style we’ve cultivated outside of park riding is finally getting the credit it deserves. What we’re doing is essentially the most core riding style there is or has been. “Surfy” riding is just the fundamentals of snowboarding - unfortunately most people ignore them. But let’s not be the fixie hipsters of snowboarding about it...


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## zc1 (Feb 20, 2017)

MrDavey2Shoes said:


> Aka carving, turning and skidding lol. I’m not looking at a board, that’s a weird thing to do. I’m looking at a snowboarder snowboarding. Unless you were watching a different video
> 
> Listen I get it, we’re all happy that the style we’ve cultivated outside of park riding is finally getting the credit it deserves. What we’re doing is essentially the most core riding style there is or has been. “Surfy” riding is the fundamentals of snowboarding - unfortunately most people ignore them. But let’s not be the fixie hipsters of snowboarding about it...


All good. I didn't even look at whatever video is being discussed, but could guess what you were referring to (in general terms) based on your comment. I share that sentiment. Most of the riding that people reference as 'surfy' doesn't look 'surfy' at all to me, either. To me 'surfy' means it emulates (water-)'surfing' movements.

And I'm definitely not core to the 'surf' movement, nor have I been involved in cultivating that style of riding. I just like it and want to learn to ride in that way, but I'm a complete beginner. Next season's going to be fun.


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## zc1 (Feb 20, 2017)

To me, the following all show 'snow surfing.'

MOSS SNOWSTICK Performance Quad " surfing on snow" - YouTube

MOSS SNOWSTICK "THE SPRING SNOW" - YouTube

MOSS SNOWSTICK Wing SW "surfing on snow" - YouTube

Naoto Kotsugai (Instagram)

In going back to my previous point, Naoto Kotsugai is using all the same techniques -- sliding/skidding, carving and flat basing -- but the way they're generated is different from what you see in most of the 'surfing' videos and his movements really look like he is imitating surfing on water.


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## JDA (Feb 10, 2016)

I grew up surfing and think I have a bit of a surfy style when snowboarding, nothing beats finding snow features that look like waves and then slashing off the top!

here is some photo evidence.


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## Craig64 (Jul 16, 2015)

JDA said:


> I grew up surfing and think I have a bit of a surfy style when snowboarding, nothing beats finding snow features that look like waves and then slashing off the top!
> 
> here is some photo evidence.


Nice shots JD. 

Where's that Perisher/Thredbo?


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## JDA (Feb 10, 2016)

Craig51 said:


> Nice shots JD.
> 
> Where's that Perisher/Thredbo?


Cheers mate, all photos from Perisher. 1 and 3 are in the sidecountry off "double trouble" and 2 was right next to the T-bar at North Perisher.


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## MrDavey2Shoes (Mar 5, 2018)

Now I wanna share a slashy too!


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## Clayton Bigsby (Oct 23, 2012)

There’s an easy way to see for yourself, the next time it dumps 15-18” grab your park board and go for a couple runs, then switch to a directional powder specific board (the Fish for me) you’ll find better floatation, higher speeds due to the greater floatation, ease of turning, ease of getting through areas that your park board wouldn’t have enough floatation/speed to get you through that flat spot, no leg burn because you’re able to ride the board with your weight centered not sitting on your backleg and last but not least the huge fucking smile on your face.


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