# Malavita questions



## NZRide (Oct 2, 2013)

Hey there,

Was planning to upgrade the Rome390s up to 390 Bosses (keen to get canting to help out the ol knees). But some recent posts have made me look at other options.
Burton Malavitas and of course Cartels get good write ups, and have canting (am I correct that Union still do not offer this?)
Firstly, Best to point out I would be looking at the Re:flex version as going on a non Burton 4 holer.

1.) So question is, I'm assuming the 4 holer plate comes with this version out of the box. Is it able to be used so you can use the holes in a heel to toe orientation, so that I can move the binding back or forward towards the heel or toe direction (as opposed to the stance width direction)?
Reason I ask is I have big feet and with my Romes maxed out in the heel cup, only way I can get boot centred on board is to have the holes oriented this way and not use the centre hole. 
I guess it is possible, as it should just be a case of rotating the disc as per my current Rome disc, but being Burton and EST compatible, I just wanted to check, anyone tried them this way and works all good out of the box with the supplied discs?

2.) Reliability and robustness of the Malavitas? good? (Klinger mentioned about the heel hammock being a potential failure point in another post, anyone see any wear and tear on this part of the binding?)

3.) What's making this a tougher decision than it should be, is whats been mentioned in other posts about Cartels actually being softer than the Vita (some of these comments are over a year old), I do want a freestyle binding (like the 390), hate rigid freeride bindings, so do I trust what Burton says on their site?
Burton officially rating it a 6 in stiffness and stating it is softer than the Cartel (the Cartel being a 7). I would say the Vita should be the one for me. Anyone had experience on the actual 2014 models to verify is Burton correct or in reality is the Cartel a slightly softer binding? What matches up closest to the 390 in reality?
Looking for good response, but some room to move if you know what I mean.

thanks for any advise,


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## bseracka (Nov 14, 2011)

Union does have canting on several models. Yes burton reflex bindings do come with 4 hole discs, there is a second set of discs that can be ordered if you need edge to edge alignment instead of nose tail. Reliability has bee good on the vita and cartel. The vita feel stiffer in the hb than the cartel, in practice it's probably not noticeable. They share the same baseplate iirc. Neither is overly stiff and probably on par with the 390.


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## lab49232 (Sep 13, 2011)

Just get a set of the canted footbeds for the 390's! Really the only difference and you can get cheaper footbeds than if you bought a completely new binding. I love my 390 Bosses FTR.


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## NZRide (Oct 2, 2013)

bseracka said:


> Yes burton reflex bindings do come with 4 hole discs, there is a second set of discs that can be ordered if you need edge to edge alignment instead of nose tail. .


Ahh yeah thats what annoys me about Burton, why could they not just have a normal 4 holer, any other bindings I've had could just be used in any orientation.
It makes it hard for me to order online, how do I get hold of the other base plates, ask them shop to send them also?
Sorry you may think its a retarded question. Just I am not in the U.S, its summer here and I need to buy online in the U.S for my Colorado trip in March, so need everything complete for when I arrive (I'm having it delivered to hotel), would hate to find a surprise in the box like the wrong discs, which is why I asked.

Union website sucks, I hate it how there is no useful info on the type of binding, so you have to go into them all, and even when you do, you still not get no idea of if the binding is even basically a freeride or freestyle type (reminds me of the Capita board website). Just a blurb of their own tech terms, which mean shit to me.
I just looked at the Forces and Contact because that's names I'd heard of and didn't see any mention of canting so gave up on them. If they can't advertise effectively on their own website how do they expect to peddle their shit?


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## NZRide (Oct 2, 2013)

lab49232 said:


> Just get a set of the canted footbeds for the 390's! Really the only difference and you can get cheaper footbeds than if you bought a completely new binding. I love my 390 Bosses FTR.


Unfortunately I have the older 390s, before they came out with the 2 part footbed, so not compatible with the canting footbeds.
My wife has the 2012 version with them though, I didn't think you could buy just the footbeds. Can you get them from Rome?


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## theprocess (Sep 9, 2013)

bseracka said:


> ...The vita feel stiffer in the hb than the cartel, in practice it's probably not noticeable. They share the same baseplate iirc...


For 2014 the Reflex version has different baseplate. EST version has same baseplate.

Overall stiffness of the binding is a function of the highback, straps and baseplate combined...having said that the malavita highbacks are stiffer than the current cartel highbacks.


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## ICary (Aug 2, 2013)

The new 2015 Vitas are sick! Colorway is too.


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## theprocess (Sep 9, 2013)

ICary said:


> The new 2015 Vitas are sick! Colorway is too.


Details? Pic?


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## snowklinger (Aug 30, 2011)

the wear of the heel hammock happens but it doesnt degrade the function of the binding.


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## kaborkian (Feb 1, 2010)

NZRide said:


> Ahh yeah thats what annoys me about Burton, why could they not just have a normal 4 holer, any other bindings I've had could just be used in any orientation.
> It makes it hard for me to order online, how do I get hold of the other base plates, ask them shop to send them also?
> Sorry you may think its a retarded question. Just I am not in the U.S, its summer here and I need to buy online in the U.S for my Colorado trip in March, so need everything complete for when I arrive (I'm having it delivered to hotel), would hate to find a surprise in the box like the wrong discs, which is why I asked.
> 
> ...


Bindings are designed to flex with the board, re:flex. The discs are cut so they are soft one way and stiff the other way. The ones that come with the board are intended to be mounted so you can move the bindings toe to heel. You ca actually rotate them and use the holes to adjust nose to tail, but it will mostly take away the reflex feature.


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## sleev-les (Feb 26, 2010)

I've got last years Vitas and I am able to adjust them heel to toe with the disc that comes with them. I have mine set on the third hole back so that my binding is shifted toward the toe side in order to center my boot.


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## tonicusa (Feb 27, 2008)

Yeah they make two different reflex discs to be used in either direction on the board. I haven't noticed a big difference in using them lengthwise versus width wise. But I also don't notice the reflex difference much at all in general. Nowhere near my ESTs or even Forum hinge discs.


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## scotty100 (Apr 3, 2012)

ICary said:


> They also get a new "flip out of the way" strap (so it's not sitting on the baseplate)
> QUOTE]
> 
> Sounds like the K2 strap tech has come off patent then...it's a good feature.


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## scotty100 (Apr 3, 2012)

NZRide said:


> 1.) So question is, I'm assuming the 4 holer plate comes with this version out of the box. Is it able to be used so you can use the holes in a heel to toe orientation, so that I can move the binding back or forward towards the heel or toe direction (as opposed to the stance width direction)?
> Reason I ask is I have big feet and with my Romes maxed out in the heel cup, only way I can get boot centred on board is to have the holes oriented this way and not use the centre hole.
> I guess it is possible, as it should just be a case of rotating the disc as per my current Rome disc, but being Burton and EST compatible, I just wanted to check, anyone tried them this way and works all good out of the box with the supplied discs?
> 
> ...


1. What size boots and what size board waist width? There's been a couple of threads recently discussing centering with the reflex bindings. It's not a big deal if you get the right size binding and have the right size board etc. If you are 11+ boot size get a large in burton bindings. Below 11 get a medium.

2. Malavita quality and durability are generally thought to be first class. IMO, a step above Rome for sure.

3. The Vita highback is thought to be a touch stiffer than the Cartel. I have both models and the Cartel is a little softer torsionally. But I don't think it's that much and you could easily rock the cartels on anything. Vita has the plush asym ankle strap.



NZRide said:


> Ahh yeah thats what annoys me about Burton, why could they not just have a normal 4 holer, any other bindings I've had could just be used in any orientation.
> It makes it hard for me to order online, how do I get hold of the other base plates, ask them shop to send them also?
> Sorry you may think its a retarded question. Just I am not in the U.S, its summer here and I need to buy online in the U.S for my Colorado trip in March, so need everything complete for when I arrive (I'm having it delivered to hotel), would hate to find a surprise in the box like the wrong discs, which is why I asked.
> 
> ...


Burton rider services would quickly ship out to wherever you are if you needed spare parts, they are very very good. But again, depending on boot and board size you probably won't need to stress about centering with the reflex discs.

Agree on Union lack of binding category details being annoying. Lots of people think the same way. I think they have a different philosophy on this sort of thing though. Search for posts by extremo, he once broke down the union line for me according to stiffness that was very helpful.


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## trapper (Jan 15, 2013)

scotty100 said:


> Agree on Union lack of binding category details being annoying. Lots of people think the same way. I think they have a different philosophy on this sort of thing though. Search for posts by extremo, he once broke down the union line for me according to stiffness that was very helpful.


There is this one too that Nivek provided the breakdown to which Extremo endorsed:
http://www.snowboardingforum.com/bindings/87369-union-model-breakdown.html


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## ICary (Aug 2, 2013)

scotty100 said:


> ICary said:
> 
> 
> > They also get a new "flip out of the way" strap (so it's not sitting on the baseplate)
> ...


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## NZRide (Oct 2, 2013)

kaborkian said:


> Bindings are designed to flex with the board, re:flex. The discs are cut so they are soft one way and stiff the other way. The ones that come with the board are intended to be mounted so you can move the bindings toe to heel. You can actually rotate them and use the holes to adjust nose to tail, but it will mostly take away the reflex feature.


Firstly, thanks for all the posts guys, useful info here for sure. So many to quote from.
Above helped put it in perspective from the start, as it didn't make sense to me why there would be a different disc (sorry its hard as all our stores have surfboards and wakeboards at the moment, not a snow related product in sight I can look at), but the flex thing makes sense. 
I have also found another post which had a picture which helps make more sense, given its not a symmetrical circular disc like "standard" bindings.
One source of confusion was the second post, that stated the supplied disc was nose to tail/ not edge to edge, but this above post and some subsequent posts have said that edge to edge adjust is the supplied disc, which would be my preferred option.
So thanks for clearing all that up. My only issue now, is I read another post about issue with Cartels (Vitas the same) with Reflex disc's, not being able to centre the bindings properly because of the reduced 3 hole option vs standard binding 4-5 hole option.
I think I would be OK as I definitely need Large bindings (size 12 ThirtyTwo Lashed boot with no shrink tech etc mounting to 261 w.w board). But I want full confidence to purchase for mine and also for my Wifes bindings, she is 8 1/2 Womens, which is equivalent to about 7 mens so sure thats only a Small mounting to a 251 w.w board.
Do the Cartels and Vitas have moveable heel cup (perhaps 3 position? and extendable toe ramp?), to give a lot of options to change the length of the binding?
It seems odd to me that people in the other forum I mentioned, had troubles. 3 holes should be enough to vary the binding centre in conjunction with the binding changes. Romes do give a lot of adjustability in this area, but it sounds like Burton maybe do not, thus why they have had troubles? Is this correct, or anyone experienced this issue in the Large and small binding sizes?

thanks,


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## kaborkian (Feb 1, 2010)

NZRide said:


> Firstly, thanks for all the posts guys, useful info here for sure. So many to quote from.
> Above helped put it in perspective from the start, as it didn't make sense to me why there would be a different disc (sorry its hard as all our stores have surfboards and wakeboards at the moment, not a snow related product in sight I can look at), but the flex thing makes sense.
> I have also found another post which had a picture which helps make more sense, given its not a symmetrical circular disc like "standard" bindings.
> One source of confusion was the second post, that stated the supplied disc was nose to tail/ not edge to edge, but this above post and some subsequent posts have said that edge to edge adjust is the supplied disc, which would be my preferred option.
> ...


Cartel and vita have fixed heel cups and adjustable toe ramps. Pretty sure that's true for all burton bindings. I've used adjustable, non burton, heel cups...they always seem to come home adjusted different than when the leave. I hate them, plus a fixed heel cup means a solid structure, less complexity, and less weight.

I have also used a size large burton with size 10 boots. Could not get enough forward adjustment to get enough toe overhang. They rode like crap because heel edge was extremely responsive and toe edge took all I had to hold an edge. The longer size 12 boot will fix that in a large binding. Same idea applies for your wife in a size 7 in size small bindings.


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## NZRide (Oct 2, 2013)

kaborkian said:


> Cartel and vita have fixed heel cups and adjustable toe ramps. Pretty sure that's true for all burton bindings. I've used adjustable, non burton, heel cups...they always seem to come home adjusted different than when the leave. I hate them, plus a fixed heel cup means a solid structure, less complexity, and less weight.
> 
> I have also used a size large burton with size 10 boots. Could not get enough forward adjustment to get enough toe overhang. They rode like crap because heel edge was extremely responsive and toe edge took all I had to hold an edge. The longer size 12 boot will fix that in a large binding. Same idea applies for your wife in a size 7 in size small bindings.


Thanks Kab, I figured there must be some lack of adjustability for the 3 whole thing to be an issue. On my Romes from the standard position I had to push them back, and still use off centre disc holes to get perfect position. I agree what your saying though, less parts to fail and lighter weight is always good.

However I guess the offside of that, is that it seems Burton are leaving some customers in that crappy situation where after shelling out good cash for a high end, brand new binding, you cannot centre the binding, and thats snowboarding 101 right there.
I think what your saying would likely be correct, 12 in the L, and 7 in the S, should be OK on a 4 holer?, but anyone had experience with these exact sizes to verify its golden?


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## kaborkian (Feb 1, 2010)

NZRide said:


> Thanks Kab, I figured there must be some lack of adjustability for the 3 whole thing to be an issue. On my Romes from the standard position I had to push them back, and still use off centre disc holes to get perfect position. I agree what your saying though, less parts to fail and lighter weight is always good.
> 
> However I guess the offside of that, is that it seems Burton are leaving some customers in that crappy situation where after shelling out good cash for a high end, brand new binding, you cannot centre the binding, and thats snowboarding 101 right there.
> I think what your saying would likely be correct, 12 in the L, and 7 in the S, should be OK on a 4 holer?, but anyone had experience with these exact sizes to verify its golden?


Actually now that I think about it, I gave the large Burton's to a friend in a 12 and they centered just fine. Can't be sure on the 7 in a small, but it "fits" what I know about a medium.

Yes it's a little more difficult to make sure you get the right size. But it's fairly well known that Burton's size charts aren't exact, and you should be in mediums from 7.5 or so to 11.


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