# Iced out conditions/highback change?



## Nefarious (Dec 26, 2010)

It's reassuring to know I handled it as I should of. I didn't wipe out or catch an edge, which was my biggest concern. It certainly didn't help that I was on my pure camber stick. I appreciated the stability in my turns, but transitions caused...well



> Ice makes our asses pucker; its a fact.


A whole lot of that. Would rocker make any difference or are the crappy conditions omnipotent? I'm hoping to not have to deal with a ton more days like that, but I did appreciate the early season wake up call. 

I think my biggest problems is the fear. I had a really bad wipeout on conditions like these last year. It was only my 3rd or 4th time out and I didn't know to slow down my turns.

Appreciate the sagely advice.


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## Engage_mike (Oct 14, 2011)

Nefarious...I don't mean to use your string as an a$$ kissing tool but I just had to say something real quick...I LOVE THAT SNOWWOLF! (no ****) I appreciate your attention to each thread and the fact that you will continuously thread after thread lend some of your veteran knowledge and try to help us guys just trying to get down the mountain in one piece...I spent an hour watching all your training videos and although I've had a 1 hr instruction on a mountain top...I feel as if I learned so much more through your videos. I look forward to getting on the mountain this year and working on my toe side edge as I am one of those that is petrified of it..but back to what I was saying...thanks for being part of this community and I'll continue to visit these boards as long as there are great contributers like yourself. Thanks again for letting me use your thread for this happy rant/a$$ kissing session Nefarious


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## Nefarious (Dec 26, 2010)

I get it, as do many here. Many of us need help once in awhile. Whether it's a small question or a big problem.

There are people here we are knowledgeable about gear, some that are fantastic at teaching, and some that will help light a fire under your ass to try something that you've been afraid of. It's the mash up of so many great personalities that make this place great.

Last year around this time a woman in her 50's I believe started snowboarding and actively participating in this forum. Vicki is her name, I believe. I'm not sure if she still actively posts, but I know Wolfie went back and forth with her for weeks working on technique and pointers. Never with the slightest hint of agitation or foul mood. 

Hijack my threads whenever you want. I sure as shit do the same thing to people all the time with only half the concern. :cheeky4:


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## snowklinger (Aug 30, 2011)

Nefarious said:


> I get it, as do many here. Many of us need help once in awhile. Whether it's a small question or a big problem.
> 
> There are people here we are knowledgeable about gear, some that are fantastic at teaching, and some that will help light a fire under your ass to try something that you've been afraid of. It's the mash up of so many great personalities that make this place great.
> 
> ...


if you are talking about vic styles, that gurl's got some swagger!


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## Peaceryder (Nov 21, 2011)

Nefarious said:


> It's reassuring to know I handled it as I should of. I didn't wipe out or catch an edge, which was my biggest concern. It certainly didn't help that I was on my pure camber stick. I appreciated the stability in my turns, but transitions caused...well
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Speaking from a downhill mountain biking perspective, slowing down is the last thing you wanna do on something steep and/or slippery. Just gotta let it go man!


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## KIRKRIDER (Mar 18, 2008)

Nefarious said:


> Finally... I finally got my first 2 days of the season in. Made a trip up to Minn and luckily they had 2 runs open. It wasn't perfect conditions but it was worth going out. Day 1 was nice, soft snow...almost felt like spring conditions. Overnight it froze so day 2 was iced over and pretty garbage.
> 
> That brings me to my question. This will be my 2nd (serious) season of riding. I've got years of skateboarding/wakeboarding under my belt and am pretty confident in my balance. My question is, what can I do to make riding on ice feel more comfortable? I stay on my edges as much as possible, but it still doesn't feel ideal.
> 
> ...


Best advantage in ice? AssPads. Crash Pads 2600 Dry-Power Padded Shorts

If you HAVE to ride ice you will wash out eventually, slam your tail bone and sit there for 2 minutes cursing the ice quietly, as the stingy pain crawls up your butt.. OR invest in one of those, bounce off and keep riding. Easy choice. I never ride without now.
Protective gloves or wrist guards are a good idea too.


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## IdahoFreshies (Jul 9, 2011)

Peaceryder said:


> Speaking from a downhill mountain biking perspective, slowing down is the last thing you wanna do on something steep and/or slippery. Just gotta let it go man!


i am only speaking for myself here, but that is the worst thing you can possibly do...depending on what is at the bottom of the hill.


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## nerickson (Jan 19, 2011)

Like Snowolf said, experience is the most important thing. Getting out there and riding on ice for a day will teach you more than even hundreds of people on here trying to explain what to do.


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## grafta (Dec 21, 2009)

nerickson said:


> Like Snowolf said, experience is the most important thing. Getting out there and riding on ice for a day will teach you more than even hundreds of people on here trying to explain what to do.


So no use having a forum then huh?  Sorry, had to be said.

Righto, i'm off then. Maybe i'll learn knitting from youtube now


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## Peaceryder (Nov 21, 2011)

IdahoFreshies said:


> i am only speaking for myself here, but that is the worst thing you can possibly do...depending on what is at the bottom of the hill.



Well, unless there's a 200ft drop off a cliff I follow my sentiment. Trying to 'slow down' or stop on ice is just asking for the pain. Then again, I'm used to mtn biking down mtns in the snowy/icy conditions. No amount of braking expertise is gonna stop your tires from sliding out if it's icy enough. Your board and you also maintain more balance by having more of your board on the surface of the icy floor. 

One thing is for certain, I've never landed on my ass by straight lining it through a bad icy patch; however, the reverse is true. When I was first learning how to shred I did try to carve more and/or stop on ice and on too many occasions you end up half heartedly losing your balance only to recover in time and straight line it anyways. The irony of this statement is that in order to recover I'd straight line it like I should have been doing to start with. Plus, I'm no engineer, but from riding experience your edges work more efficiently at higher speeds. Does this take more ballz? Yes. But I think of it this way, when you're first learning to snowboard your body is reluctant to point itself aggressively down the hill, so when you try to carve it doesn't quite work out all that well... sore butt! lol. Sometimes the best thing to do is the most difficult. 

I just know that I've never ONCE slid out on ice when I was charging it. I can recall several instances when I was first learning where I did though. I'm gonna assume that the entire run down the mountain is not ice in this circumstance. Ever tried to stop a snowboard at full speed? You don't need much space at all. And usually if you look ahead there's a nice spot beyond the icy patch where you can settle your speed down a bit if you need to. 

Hitting the brakes on ice is most of the reason why people go off the road when they're driving on the highway!!!!! The same concept should apply to a board at your feet.


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## Perpetual3am (Nov 19, 2007)

Great advice in here, I'm from the East Coast so at least some ice is kind of a given most days. It completely changes how well I can ride as I'm more tentative and can't just charge down some run if it has patches here and there. I found that keeping my edges at a happy medium, you definitely want to have some there in case you have to turn, but not so much that they're digging in and possibly making you bail. I also invested years ago in board shorts with a tailbone protector, I find it gave me a bit more confidence, and made those bails a little more forgiving. And this may be a given but I wear a helmet all the time, you only have to ring your bell once on a solid patch of ice to know why. 

The only good thing I find about ice is when I do get to ride in nice snow with no ice patches, you can go balls out with 100% confidence.


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## Nefarious (Dec 26, 2010)

After my ice encounter, I've gotten a helmet and am looking into impact shorts. I didn't take a bad fall, but I'm getting to the point where the injuries aren't worth the risk of boarding. I still want to board, therefore I must be proactive. I'm excited for my next trip on actual snow. After 40+ runs on ice, I think my next outing will be extremely productive.


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## KIRKRIDER (Mar 18, 2008)

Nefarious said:


> After my ice encounter, I've gotten a helmet and am looking into impact shorts. I didn't take a bad fall, but I'm getting to the point where the injuries aren't worth the risk of boarding. I still want to board, therefore I must be proactive. I'm excited for my next trip on actual snow. After 40+ runs on ice, I think my next outing will be extremely productive.


Old man says:
buy protective gear BEFORE you get hurt.


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## Nefarious (Dec 26, 2010)

KIRKRIDER said:


> Old man says:
> buy protective gear BEFORE you get hurt.


New helmet at home. Buying impact shorts soon. It's just not worth the injuries.


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## CheeseForSteeze (May 11, 2011)

Get a feel for softening your inputs like Wolf says and you will master riding ice. Now I'm assuming aren't you riding actual ice because ice is very rare, even out here in the East Coast and what most people refer to as ice is really just frozen granular hardpack. We get patches of actual ice every once in a while but most of what the East Coast is (and the Midwest where I've done some riding) is technically frozen granular and there is a huge difference between the two. You should have heard the wankers out in Summit County last week whine about ice and I was stoked on the texture. It wasn't even frozen granular hardpack, it was just dense packed snow but had a nice, softer texture to it.

True ice is literally like a hockey arena and you can't even get on edge on it much like jibbing boxes and it's nearly completely unridable. Frozen granular snow is challenging to ride but with time, you can learn to really haul on it gracefully and with great control.

Besides really toning down the inputs on your board, good vision is key because picking your line becomes critical. You need vision (get the right goggle lens) because it helps you see the contours of the terrain so you can pick that good line. Frozen granular can be awesome for park conditions because it stays consistent and fast but it hurts like hell to fall on, as you noted.

Keeping your board tuned will also help immensely with grip.


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## linvillegorge (Jul 6, 2009)

Fuck riding ice. I'll just drink beer.


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## Peaceryder (Nov 21, 2011)

Snowolf said:


> Cheese, you obviously have not ridden Vista or Cascade or any wind exposed ridge lines at Mt. Hood Meadows! :cheeky4:
> 
> All kidding aside though, generally what you are saying about " frozen granular " is pretty accurate and I call this "hard pack ". When I say ice, I do in fact mean ice and I know the difference! We get actual ice; often much worse than back east and typically on much steeper terrain. I am talking about clear or blueish ice on the surface that ranges from a thin layer to several inches thick.
> 
> ...


I agree with this sentiment being a west coast rider in Alberta. You go up and ride Kicking Horse resort in BC and much of the season is spent navigating a very bumpy and purely ice based final 20% of the mtn. This is caused because BC's 'warm days', so the bottom of the mountain is an ice rink from rain. Our mountains out west if I'm not mistaken have much steeper and higher elevation in general compared to the east coast, so we're riding down steeper runs on ice sometimes, and often on chippy hard pack if it doesn't snow. --Checkout Norquay, Nakiska for a couple other less than ideal mtns, but both are steep as it comes without going to Alaska 

I think being balanced, stable and predictable when riding hard packed or icy surfaces is the biggest key. For me, that's what made it not so bad. It's actually kinda fun to straight line a sketchy section so you can have that wonderful LOOOOOOOOONNG carve that sounds like a boat is moving through the artic frozen waters. That cracking sound like you're gonna fall through the ice, lol. Not saying it isn't sketchy but if you catch the right positive edge and balance on your carve technique then it can be an interesting experience and a speeeeedy one. You have to really let go off your snowboard control without leaving your balance behind. A bad habit of mine in the beginning on icy conditions was to continue to make those sharp/dynamic quick carves, which leads to catching a lot of edges and a sore butt. You have to allow the board to have a lot of the control on ice, u control your balance and make sure you're making Tugboat like turns to get down the mtn. Faster is safer and carving less makes the least mess on crappy conditions. Or at least this is the advice I finally started using that I gave to myself during one of my runs where I decided to not try to carve and control everything on ice.


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## linvillegorge (Jul 6, 2009)

Snowolf said:


> I drink Vodka then go out and ride ice.


Well, that's one way to do it! :laugh:


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## CheeseForSteeze (May 11, 2011)

Snowolf said:


> Pacific Northwest riders who ride all the time are some of the best ice riders there are. I work and ride at Mt. Hood Meados at night and I ride pretty intense ice more than any other condition and I don't stick with gentle green groomers either. I drop the bowls and the Face which are all 40 degree plus on any condition. If you learn to ride it, you can ride real ice.
> 
> Not discounting the ice skills that our east coast riders have in any way. But people who say we don't get ice out west or that west coast riders are not ad good as east coast riders, simply are incorrect.


Oh no, I'm sure you get true ice out west as well, especially with the higher moisture content snow in the PNW which is likely to thaw and freeze cycle from frozen granular into ice, especially as it gets tracked up or packed by high winds. It's just that I hear so many riders on lifts talking about "icy" conditions when in fact there isn't really ice so I was trying to clarify with the OP since as we both know, the technique for riding hardpack/frozen granular and true ice are pretty different. Well, not different, but the margins for different dynamics are far narrower on ice.

The ice I've seen out here is fairly rare but the real problem with it is that it's hidden under a very thin layer of wind blown dust and gets exposed as you ride over it. It's similar to the type 1 ice you describe being formed by high moisture content snow (lake effect snow + artificial) and wind packing, being tracked up and occasional sun exposure to thaw the layer so it can refreeze at night. There's not much opportunity to practice riding it unless you want to hike that spot :/ I would guess most ice riders are probably good not out of opportunity, but necessity.

However, I bet that ice thaws into some sweet spring corn once the sun starts coming out regularly. The wind packed ice formed by freezing and thawing here has a window of around 2 weeks here where it becomes like soft granular approximating real corn conditions.


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## CheeseForSteeze (May 11, 2011)

Snowolf said:


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