# Pant buying tips.



## andrewdod (Mar 24, 2013)

Okay, so i havent bought a pair of snowboarding pants in a good 4 years... and when i bought them then i didnt really know what i was getting... Now its time for a new pair.

So basically my question is what is a good waterproof and breathability to look for? 

These will probably be the only pair I buy for a minimum of 6 months... Shoulda got them in the spring but i forgot too... :facepalm3:


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## radiomuse210 (Sep 5, 2014)

andrewdod said:


> Okay, so i havent bought a pair of snowboarding pants in a good 4 years... and when i bought them then i didnt really know what i was getting... Now its time for a new pair.
> 
> So basically my question is what is a good waterproof and breathability to look for?
> 
> These will probably be the only pair I buy for a minimum of 6 months... Shoulda got them in the spring but i forgot too... :facepalm3:


10/10 is the minimum I would get for waterproofing/breathability. My pants for this season are 15/15, as well as my jacket. Prior to that, my jacket was 5k which allowed my inner layer to get damp if I was riding in precipitation, especially drizzle or rain. My pants were even worse. I don't remember what they were, but I was a complete noob when I bought them. Slushy snow, wet lift chairs, any wet conditions and my layers underneath would get WET. So I'm stoked to have more waterproof gear this season (although my pants are a bit too big...but as long as I'm warm/dry, I don't mind).


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## snowklinger (Aug 30, 2011)

I won't wear anything that isn't Goretex or at least 20/20 rated. Even when not necessary, breathes so much better than lower rated gear.

Shell ftw. 

Got myself a pair of Volcom Guide pants this year so sickness.

I run hot so I look for hip vents in addition to crotch, but hard to find.

Homeschool has some very breathable shit that appeals to me, but I like my ziptech as well.

Buy the right size imo. Too big or too small pants is bullshit.


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## andrewdod (Mar 24, 2013)

radiomuse210 said:


> 10/10 is the minimum I would get for waterproofing/breathability. My pants for this season are 15/15, as well as my jacket. Prior to that, my jacket was 5k which allowed my inner layer to get damp if I was riding in precipitation, especially drizzle or rain. My pants were even worse. I don't remember what they were, but I was a complete noob when I bought them. Slushy snow, wet lift chairs, any wet conditions and my layers underneath would get WET. So I'm stoked to have more waterproof gear this season (although my pants are a bit too big...but as long as I'm warm/dry, I don't mind).


I feel the pain... My old pants gave me swamp ass whether or not I fell or not... So I'm looking for something way better considering im shooting for 60 days this season.



snowklinger said:


> I won't wear anything that isn't Goretex or at least 20/20 rated. Even when not necessary, breathes so much better than lower rated gear.
> 
> Shell ftw.
> 
> ...


So the more the better? Yeah, I like my pants to fit properly... I ain't the homeboy from down the street. Just the hillbilly who likes to slide on snow. lol


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## radiomuse210 (Sep 5, 2014)

snowklinger said:


> I run hot so I look for hip vents in addition to crotch, but hard to find.




Great point I didn't think of in my first response - vents! My old pants do not have any vents, but my newer ones have crotch vents. I have a pair of 686 Smarty Cargos btw...lots of great pockets, vents, removable liner (the weather can vary widely here. 60 - 20 degF during the day depending on the time of year and what the weather decides to do, so having that removable liner is a big plus for me). My jacket and pants are both 686 Smartys so they can attach to help keep snow out. Jacket is pretty much the sibling of the pants - great pockets, removable liner, vents, same waterproofing/breathability tech, etc. 

I would also recommend going to a store and trying stuff on and then buy. Things can fit differently between models in the same brand depending on the cut/fit. I had to get a size smaller in my new 686 jacket than my old one. The pants I could've gone smaller, but then I would be losing room for protective gear like knee/butt pads. I'm getting more into park riding this year and definitely want that stuff, especially the knee pads (have a "funny" knee due to a car accident). So while it's a little big around the waist, it provides room for that extra stuff - and it's nothing a belt can't fix. It had everything I wanted in snowboard pants...so I don't mind slapping a belt on. 

I personally love 686 - in my experience their gear has been really durable, warm, and comfy. I don't have cash to drop on new outerwear every year, so I want my stuff to last as long as possible.


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## chomps1211 (Mar 30, 2011)

radiomuse210 said:


> *….Things can fit differently between models in the same brand *depending on the cut/fit. I had to get a size smaller in my new 686 jacket than my old one. The pants I could've gone smaller, but then I would be losing room for protective gear like knee/butt pads…..


*That's* the thing that really annoys me about shopping for outwear. Not only that, but even if you find that jacket or pant in a style and color you like *and* that has a fit that really suits you,..? One or two seasons later and they have dropped or changed the cutt and you're forced to go back on the hunt for something you not only like, but looks good on you and is the perfect fit all over again!!!


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## Rookie09 (Sep 5, 2012)

radiomuse210 said:


> Great point I didn't think of in my first response - vents! My old pants do not have any vents, but my newer ones have crotch vents. I have a pair of 686 Smarty Cargos btw...lots of great pockets, vents, removable liner (the weather can vary widely here. 60 - 20 degF during the day depending on the time of year and what the weather decides to do, so having that removable liner is a big plus for me). My jacket and pants are both 686 Smartys so they can attach to help keep snow out. Jacket is pretty much the sibling of the pants - great pockets, removable liner, vents, same waterproofing/breathability tech, etc.
> 
> I would also recommend going to a store and trying stuff on and then buy. Things can fit differently between models in the same brand depending on the cut/fit. I had to get a size smaller in my new 686 jacket than my old one. The pants I could've gone smaller, but then I would be losing room for protective gear like knee/butt pads. I'm getting more into park riding this year and definitely want that stuff, especially the knee pads (have a "funny" knee due to a car accident). So while it's a little big around the waist, it provides room for that extra stuff - and it's nothing a belt can't fix. It had everything I wanted in snowboard pants...so I don't mind slapping a belt on.
> 
> I personally love 686 - in my experience their gear has been really durable, warm, and comfy. I don't have cash to drop on new outerwear every year, so I want my stuff to last as long as possible.


My old pair of pants were 686 Smarty (guys version) and they were decent but not right for me. The waterproofing and breathability was great (20k/20k I think, could be wrong). But I got the smalls and they felt a little short, a little big in the waist, and a little too baggy for my liking. The sizing was disappointingly off considering I feel like I'm very average build (5'9 165 lbs). I used them for only a season, but I put a hole in the knee when I wiped out walking on the sidewalk back to my house so I got a new pair for this year. 

I got Special Blend Gutter pants. I've only used them once this year so far but it was snowing the entire day and I stayed completely warm and dry. They're 15k/10K I believe. I got these in size medium and they fit absolutely perfectly in length, waist, and fit (regular vs baggy). Special Blend is quickly becoming one of my favorite outerwear brands. I own 2 special blend hoodies which are also perfect in both function and looks.

Anyways, enough about me. I recommend the brand Special Blend and caution against 686's sizing if you're similar size to me. As far as waterproofing and breathability goes, obviously the higher the better. However for me I'm fine with 10k/10k and can't tell much of a difference when I get higher than that. Maybe because of where I ride (MN) it doesn't get very wet most of the time.


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## andrewdod (Mar 24, 2013)

chomps1211 said:


> *That's* the thing that really annoys me about shopping for outwear. Not only that, but even if you find that jacket or pant in a style and color you like *and* that has a fit that really suits you,..? One or two seasons later and they have dropped or changed the cutt and you're forced to go back on the hunt for something you not only like, but looks good on you and is the perfect fit all over again!!!


Part of the reason im on the hunt right now... I absolutely hated my other pants... but since they were a gift i made dew, and got 4 years out of them. Time to move on!


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## chomps1211 (Mar 30, 2011)

andrewdod said:


> Part of the reason im on the hunt right now... I absolutely hated my other pants... but since they were a gift i made dew, and got 4 years out of them. Time to move on!


…I've got three pairs of Burton snowboard pants. Each one of them fits different!


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## radiomuse210 (Sep 5, 2014)

Rookie09 said:


> Anyways, enough about me. I recommend the brand Special Blend and caution against 686's sizing if you're similar size to me. As far as waterproofing and breathability goes, obviously the higher the better. However for me I'm fine with 10k/10k and can't tell much of a difference when I get higher than that. Maybe because of where I ride (MN) it doesn't get very wet most of the time.



The thing about 686 is that you need to pay attention to the fit. I can't remember what the different fits are called - but yeah the fit of the Smarty line definitely affects the sizing - they run big. Like I said, that jacket I got was the same size as my old jacket (small) and it was a good size too big. The X-Small was perfect. I think the size down in the pants would have been great BUT I wouldn't have had room for knee/butt pads. I know when I sized down from the S jacket to the XS, the size difference was more than I was expecting, but it ended up being perfect. I'm really short, so everything is long on me unless I can find a "short" version. The old 686 jacket fit great right out of the box - just as you would expect a small to fit. I think I'm going to hunt down a pair of the 686 Smarty pants in a smaller size during end of season sales for days I'm not going into the park and don't have to worry about protective gear. 

My friend had a similar issue with Burton pants - just could not get the right fit, like he was in between sizes for most of what he tried on. I have a Volcom Tech Hoodie that is just heavenly. Outer wear can be such a pain sometimes - definitely try it on.


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## andrewdod (Mar 24, 2013)

might pull the trigger on these... the price is nice

Amazon.com : Special Blend Proof Ski Snowboard Pants Greyskull : Snowboarding Pants : Sports & Outdoors


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## radiomuse210 (Sep 5, 2014)

andrewdod said:


> might pull the trigger on these... the price is nice
> 
> Amazon.com : Special Blend Proof Ski Snowboard Pants Greyskull : Snowboarding Pants : Sports & Outdoors


I would check on the return policy - just in case. And personally I would shoot for something a bit higher than 10k, but a lot of folks ride 10k gear and don't seem to have an issue.


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## andrewdod (Mar 24, 2013)

I think this is gonna be a one shot deal. Either gonna love em or hate em... I cant be missing riding time waiting on pants... Got caught when i pulled the gear out this year, i didnt realize the old ones were shredded. The important part is if they function well for me, hopefully some good research prevents an issue.


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## SnowDragon (Apr 23, 2012)

chomps1211 said:


> *That's* the thing that really annoys me about shopping for outwear. Not only that, but even if you find that jacket or pant in a style and color you like *and* that has a fit that really suits you,..? One or two seasons later and they have dropped or changed the cutt and you're forced to go back on the hunt for something you not only like, but looks good on you and is the perfect fit all over again!!!


Those killer first world problems!!!


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## chomps1211 (Mar 30, 2011)

GreyDragon said:


> Those killer first world problems!!!


If it was just snowboarding outerwear,.. Yeah! I'd totally agree with you. It would be a "poor poor me" kinda 1st world problem sort of deal. But I'm built like a troll or something! I have real trouble finding good quality clothes that fit right. Always have.

When I was a baby,..? My grandparents had to kick in to help my parents afford custom fitted baby shoes! (…so I could walk, not as a status thing.) I went thru high school wearing size 12 shoes, because I couldn't find wide, 10.5 EEE shoes back then. 

I know a lot of my foot problems probably stem from growing up wearing ill fitting, too big shoes. after the baby shoes,.. I never got a pair of wide anythings for my feet until I was in the service. 

As for the rest,.. aside from fashion, which I could really gas about! Try finding suitable, functional, well fitting outdoor gear? Only places that _ever_ carried any kind of Quality, _functional_ outdoor clothing and gear for big dudes, were hunting shops! Before I lost weight, I wore a *lot* of Camo!! (_…guess a lotta fat assed ******** out there toting guns n beer into the woods!_)  lol!

/rant


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## andrewdod (Mar 24, 2013)

chomps1211 said:


> If it was just snowboarding outerwear,.. Yeah! I'd totally agree with you. It would be a "poor poor me" kinda 1st world problem sort of deal. But I'm built like a troll or something! I have real trouble finding good quality clothes that fit right. Always have.
> 
> When I was a baby,..? My grandparents had to kick in to help my parents afford custom fitted baby shoes! (…so I could walk, not as a status thing.) I went thru high school wearing size 12 shoes, because I couldn't find wide, 10.5 EEE shoes back then.
> 
> ...


easy on the camo jokes! that life is real for some of us still! hahaha jk i only wear it when im out in the woods totin my guns.


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## SkullAndXbones (Feb 24, 2014)

i just get pants that fit and are in my budget.


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## chomps1211 (Mar 30, 2011)

andrewdod said:


> easy on the camo jokes! that life is real for some of us still! hahaha jk i only wear it when im out in the woods totin my guns.


Hahahaha! No insult intended! :laugh: I just got tired of _always_ having to go camo if I wanted good quality outer wear! You will _NEVER_ find XXLT sizes in REI!!! lol 

(…before someone starts linking the fuck out of a bunch of XXL stuff from REI? Remember,... I'm an _OLD_ fuck. Most of my life was lived _Before_ the Interwebz!!!  K? ) :blink:


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## rambob (Mar 5, 2011)

andrewdod said:


> might pull the trigger on these... the price is nice
> 
> Amazon.com : Special Blend Proof Ski Snowboard Pants Greyskull : Snowboarding Pants : Sports & Outdoors


Those pants look like they dont have vents or boot gaiters. Nice color tho....


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## 2hellnbak (Sep 21, 2012)

My only help... I HATE back pockets in snowboarding pants! Snow just.... sticks to them, then you sit on the chair lift, and it melts, then you take a run, and more snow sticks to them! Maybe I just have a hot ass (I thank you) but at the end of the day, it's unpleasant no matter how much waterproofing your pants have....

Just hate back pockets. Between the jacket and the pants there are enough pockets to smuggle a few kilos of cocaine into Utah so why would I ever need back pockets?


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## andrewdod (Mar 24, 2013)

yeah, plans changed on those pants. to good to be true. did some googling and theyre only 8k and 5k. not good enough for me.


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## Rookie09 (Sep 5, 2012)

andrewdod said:


> yeah, plans changed on those pants. to good to be true. did some googling and theyre only 8k and 5k. not good enough for me.


Honestly waterproofing isn't that big of a deal to a certain extent depending on where you live. If you live somewhere that rains some during the winter or gets thaws midseason then ya get some good waterproofing, but if you're like me and live in MN where it's always below freezing all season long then even poor waterproofing will suffice in most cases. That said 8k and 5k IS pretty low. Why are they that low when the site said 10k/10k??


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## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

outer gear can be spendy...however if you search, wait patiently, not particular and then pounce...there are scores to be had. I'm always on the lookout (year round) for used but not abused. This year not needed...but just too good to pass up, both are 20/20k and happened to be black...arcteryx beta ar pants $80 with small rip (easily repaired) on the lower leg inside seam and trew beast jacket $120 like new. :jumping1::jumping1::jumping1:


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

chomps1211 said:


> …I've got three pairs of Burton snowboard pants. Each one of them fits different!


That's why I love Arc'teryx. Chevk size talbe - order - it fits. Always. I hate shopping, it's PITA enough for casual clothes, I feel ya (I got clothes in size 32-46 :eyetwitch2. Thus I'm glad that I found a brand for outware which is consistent in sizing.


OP: look for quality pants; waterproof n breathable of course, shell with air wents can be used in cold days with an additional base layer and in warm spring days; boot gaitors are must. Good pants can last a long time. Had my former Spyder in use over 400days, still waterproof.


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## Steezus Christ (Jul 29, 2013)

The big thing about buying more waterproof gear isn't only the fact it's waterproof but it also lasts longer too in most cases. I heard somewhere though that the waterproof and breath ability isn't actually regulated to any standards and numbers can be completely false? Can somebody confirm that or is it straight up bullshit?


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## Karpediem (Aug 29, 2007)

Doubt the numbers are false. Go compare different pants at different numbers and you can tell which ones are rated higher just by the look and the feel.

How are waterproof ratings determined?

Waterproof ratings are determined by the clothing manufacturer or fabric producer, with testing done either by independent laboratories or in-house. There are a number of different testing protocols in use, but most involve the equivalent of placing a 1” x 1” square tube over the fabric and determining how high (in millimeters) a column of water you can suspend over it before it starts to leak. Some manufacturers have developed their own testing methods that involve adding pressure to the process to simulate the effects of wind.

While waterproof ratings are becoming more standardized, remember that different labs may test or report differently, and may come up with different results even with two pieces of fabric from the exact same roll, so take the numbers with a grain of salt. Keep in mind that some manufacturers report waterproof ratings in PSI (Pounds per Square Inch) rather than millimeters, which has a conversion rate of 704 mm = 1 PSI.


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## XR4Ti (Dec 12, 2009)

I wear the 686 Smarty Cargo pants as well. Nice that you can buy them in a "Tall" sizing option for those of us that need it.


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## Rookie09 (Sep 5, 2012)

XR4Ti said:


> I wear the 686 Smarty Cargo pants as well. Nice that you can buy them in a "Tall" sizing option for those of us that need it.


That's really the only option to go for 686 in my opinion. From the one pair I owned I feel like they run big but short, which is really annoying to me.


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