# The Whitelines - Real Time Reviews



## Revvi (12 mo ago)

Reviews with rider’s footage and feedback is always great!
Definitely better than the Curated reviews….

They started doing Women’s reviews too. That’s pretty refreshing. Especially reviewers that can ride well, and give proper feedback.


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## Etienne (Apr 2, 2021)

Seeing the rider's style definitely and terrain where it was tested helps a ton for understanding the review. That's why I really like The Good Ride for exemple, I like different boards than them, but it's easy to see why—we just ride totally different mountains, in a different way. With a bit of habits you can read in between the lines, e.g. I know how to decipher french Snowsurf tests because I bought many boards based on their reviews. But video is must IMO.


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## BoardieK (Dec 21, 2015)

Yeahti87 said:


> It looks like the Whitelines came up with a new format of their reviews.
> 
> The guy can definitely shred the park, a simple yet valuable video edit, a personal take on the board feel, the pros and cons.


Ed Leigh is well known in UK as presenter of the BBC's Ski Sunday programme.


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## rgrwilco (Oct 15, 2007)

Etienne said:


> Seeing the rider's style definitely and terrain where it was tested helps a ton for understanding the review. That's why I really like The Good Ride for exemple, I like different boards than them, but it's easy to see why—we just ride totally different mountains, in a different way. With a bit of habits you can read in between the lines, e.g. I know how to decipher french Snowsurf tests because I bought many boards based on their reviews. But video is must IMO.


I like the format of The Good Ride, but its such a strange situation. You need an e-harmony profile to ask questions? why are comments turned off? Also, The dude (James) is not that strong of a rider, so you have to take his reviews with a grain of salt.


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## Surgeon (Apr 13, 2020)

rgrwilco said:


> I like the format of The Good Ride, but its such a strange situation. You need an e-harmony profile to ask questions? why are comments turned off? Also, The dude (James) is not that strong of a rider, so you have to take his reviews with a grain of salt.


I agree but on the other hand: how many guys watching reviews are at the level of that guy demoing for whitelines? Same thing applies: take it with a grain of salt if you can't throw 720s around on your first drop on a new board...


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## Craig64 (Jul 16, 2015)

Surgeon said:


> I agree but on the other hand: how many guys watching reviews are at the level of that guy demoing for whitelines? Same thing applies: take it with a grain of salt if you can't throw 720s around on your first drop on a new board...


Yep pro level rider jumping on for a 1st ride and destroying the mountain.


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## Yeahti87 (Jan 17, 2019)

rgrwilco said:


> I like the format of The Good Ride, but its such a strange situation. You need an e-harmony profile to ask questions? why are comments turned off? Also, The dude (James) is not that strong of a rider, so you have to take his reviews with a grain of salt.


At least you can see his riding level and form your own opinion based on the video edit.
The paper accepts everything unlike the video.

And anyways he is a pretty confident rider on the groomers and from my experience of riding 50 plus boards in the past 4 years he seems to properly evaluate in a vast majority of cases how the board carves, especially how the sidecut radius dictactes the turn characteristics once you can properly lean the board over.

I take every review with a grain of salt. If I blindly followed one reviewer I’d have missed riding many good boards that remain the same year after year or undergo minimal changes in the flex (less impactful than sizing up 2 cms what is always doable) and are rated as underperforming one year and the next year they become a favourite/top 5 and what not.


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## Etienne (Apr 2, 2021)

Yeahti87 said:


> At least you can see his riding level and form your own opinion based on the video edit.
> The paper accepts everything.


Yeah, exaclty! It makes it easier to understand why they like some boards, and maybe not as much other that are praised here in the Alps (like some Slash, Nidecker, Salomon HPS M...). 

I see whitelines has dropped another [emoji106]





Envoyé de mon H8324 en utilisant Tapatalk


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## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

It will be interesting to see how this progresses, but my gut says this guy knows how to review a board for himself, but not the general public. Based on how many times he said “playful” regarding the Mod. He did say you need to know what you’re doing on it, but still, playful is not the first word I go to with that board, and certainly not it’s defining feature.


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## Luffe (Apr 5, 2021)

Just beeing able to see how the boards performs under some stress makes these reviews golden. How he categorize and judge the boards seems to align very well with how he rides the boards, from what I’ve seen.


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## Yeahti87 (Jan 17, 2019)

Luffe said:


> Just beeing able to see how the boards performs under some stress makes these reviews golden. How he categorize and judge the boards seems to align very well with how he rides the boards, from what I’ve seen.


Exactly. The GNU RC review:




You can see the guy fighting the autospin of the rocker in the middle and he talks about the fore aft issue with the profile. I had the same feeling riding the Orca.

I don’t like here the host here pushing ‚the perfect blend of playfullness’ statement. Let the rider sum up what he already said - that he would prefer this board with a camber profile and by watching the video you can see why.


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## Luffe (Apr 5, 2021)

Yeahti87 said:


> I don’t like here the host here pushing ‚the perfect blend of playfullness’ statement. Let the rider sum up what he already said - that he would prefer this board with a camber profile and by watching the video you can see why.


Yeah, I know. But at least the rider is honest. Lets hope they keep it that way. That the host has to stay more diplomatic to keep boards getting sent his way is understandable.


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## Snowdaddy (Feb 2, 2018)

Reviews without video footage would never make me buy a board.


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## BurtonAvenger (Aug 14, 2007)

^ That's cute. 

In regards to James, just remember he's a back foot dominate rudder footer. Dude has never initiated a turn off his front foot. Hence he has bad form and bad habits. If I leaned back on everything I rode it would drastically change how I view them. And I too would probably use the phrase "off the back" over and over and over again like he does. 

At the end of the day when it comes to reviews you need to be aware of if they are looking at it from the perspective of who is this for and how it works/doesn't work for that or are they just looking at it from how it works for them. There's a big difference between the two. 

It's funny sitting where I am after doing this for 20 years and seeing how people keep trying and can't quite master it. It's really not that hard.


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## Yeahti87 (Jan 17, 2019)

BurtonAvenger said:


> In regards to James, just remember he's a back foot dominate rudder footer. Dude has never initiated a turn off his front foot. Hence he has bad form and bad habits. If I leaned back on everything I rode it would drastically change how I view them. And I too would probably use the phrase "off the back" over and over and over again like he does.


You have to use your front foot to initiate the turn early to heel carve like that.




 0:35


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## BurtonAvenger (Aug 14, 2007)

Dudes sitting on his backfoot with his rear hip kicked out just a bit more than the front. Dude looks like a geriatric struggling to take a poop.


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## Scalpelman (Dec 5, 2017)

BurtonAvenger said:


> Dudes sitting on his backfoot with his rear hip kicked out just a bit more than the front. Dude looks like a geriatric struggling to take a poop.


I heard he has monkey pox. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## DaveMcI (Aug 19, 2013)

I bet the korua guys cringe watching this.


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## robotfood99 (Mar 19, 2016)

Reviewers review the boards... while we review the reviewers lol.

For me, consistency is more important than displays of riding skills or camera work. When reviewing/comparing products that are as diverse in build, shape, and characteristic as snowboards, the reviewer has to be disciplined to deliver reviews that are as consistent across the board (pardon the pun) as possible. Angry does this with his review format and gear. Snowboarding Profiles has a scoring table that is consistently applied to all review subjects. In comparison, TGR, Curated, and even Whiteline's reviews are full of subjective points-of-views from different levels of riders using different gear under varying conditions. At this point, the videos of riding become just fill-content and their reviews just cause information overload and analysis paralysis. 

I still appreciate the videos of riding, mostly to look at the boards themselves or the landscape. Even TGR's, even though James' backfoot-squatting, shoulder-hunching 'carves' are enough to want to look for a new sport.


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## Surgeon (Apr 13, 2020)

rgrwilco said:


> I like the format of The Good Ride, but its such a strange situation. You need an e-harmony profile to ask questions? why are comments turned off? Also, The dude (James) is not that strong of a rider, so you have to take his reviews with a grain of salt.





Surgeon said:


> I agree but on the other hand: how many guys watching reviews are at the level of that guy demoing for whitelines? Same thing applies: take it with a grain of salt if you can't throw 720s around on your first drop on a new board...


_I hate to quote myself but there's a sub-thread/subject in there_

If you watch the lastes review (DOA), the rider (sorry, I didn't get his name right) said it was too soft for jumps and so on, saying that it was great at lower-speeds and jibbing. At this point the "other guy" stepped in saying that, to be fair to the board, the rider was in the top-most tier when it comes to freestyle abilities, jump size and speed...

That's exactly what I meant initially: all reviews are relative to the reviewer's abilities vs yours.

When a reviewing organisation/group has to put a caveat on the rider's review by pointing that the guy is "too good", that's as worse as reading/watching a guy who can't ride well giving you his opinion on a board (and there are a LOT of those out there, having a camera/gopro doesn't make you an expert but they all think they are). That part of the video really had me shaking my head. It completely defeats the purpose and just proves that they didn't pick the right rider for their review(s). Again: the best rider out there isn't necessarily the best rider to do reviews... 

However, a reviewer with a lot of experience (as opposed to being a pro-level rider) can usually extrapolate but I suspect that very few reviewers out there can do this properly.

I'll admit that seeing a guy in action helps me gauge where I sit compared to him and how his review will apply to me. E.G.: I don't go as big as the whiteline guy anymore but we ride quite similarily. Beastie: sorry, I'm more advanced on all aspects by a lot...


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## drblast (Feb 28, 2017)

Nivek said:


> It will be interesting to see how this progresses, but my gut says this guy knows how to review a board for himself, but not the general public. Based on how many times he said “playful” regarding the Mod. He did say you need to know what you’re doing on it, but still, playful is not the first word I go to with that board, and certainly not it’s defining feature.


Yeah unless they significantly increased the flex of the Mod since 2018, "playful" and "washy" is just misleading as hell. I could describe my 159 Mod as playful because I'm at the top end of the weight range and it's broken in, but someone who hadn't ridden that board would think mid-flex camrock park board based on that review which is not even close.

Love the format though, just have to look at it through the lens of an expert rider.

The Angry reviews are based on CO riding on much shorter boards than I'd use in the PNW, and he and I are about the same size. So I take that into account.

I do think reviews by people who are much better than I am are more useful than reviews by people who aren't (Good Ride). For that matter, The Good Ride is probably a decent resource for beginners.


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## Etienne (Apr 2, 2021)

Surgeon said:


> _I hate to quote myself but there's a sub-thread/subject in there_
> 
> If you watch the lastes review (DOA), the rider (sorry, I didn't get his name right) said it was too soft for jumps and so on, saying that it was great at lower-speeds and jibbing. At this point the "other guy" stepped in saying that, to be fair to the board, the rider was in the top-most tier when it comes to freestyle abilities, jump size and speed...
> 
> ...


For me it's still good info: he tested it mainly in the park and for him a Miller flip over a big knuckle is "fun" => says nothing about all-mountain beside occasional sidehit cruising to the park and it's probably a board with more power than I would need for park. Same for that english dude reviewing the Dancehaul (can't remember his name). He cruised it on the summer glacier doing mellow carves/euro-carves and smooth trick on small stuff => says nothing about steeper/more technical terrain (that's fine). Or boardarchive rating "carving boards", you see him laying a euro-carve in between park runs => ok, I know what he means by "carve" (that's fine too, just not my style). To me video doesn't say everything at all, but it gives context.

Now TBH you can also do that with text if you care. That's one thing I really like about Snowsurf (french), it's that they have a varied crew of testers ranging from old schooler too young park/FWT guns and will highlight who like it and why: freestylers found it efficient but boring, heaviers guys found it playful/smaller guys liked it on bigger jumps, liked the steep wide open more than technical forest, wide range of riders loved it etc.


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## Surgeon (Apr 13, 2020)

Etienne said:


> For me it's still good info: he tested it mainly in the park and for him a Miller flip over a big knuckle is "fun" => says nothing about all-mountain beside occasional sidehit cruising to the park and it's probably a board with more power than I would need for park. Same for that english dude reviewing the Dancehaul (can't remember his name). He cruised it on the summer glacier doing mellow carves/euro-carves and smooth trick on small stuff => says nothing about steeper/more technical terrain (that's fine). Or boardarchive rating "carving boards", you see him laying a euro-carve in between park runs => ok, I know what he means by "carve" (that's fine too, just not my style). To me video doesn't say everything at all, but it gives context.
> 
> Now TBH you can also do that with text if you care. That's one thing I really like about Snowsurf (french), it's that they have a varied crew of testers ranging from old schooler too young park/FWT guns and will highlight who like it and why: freestylers found it efficient but boring, heaviers guys found it playful/smaller guys liked it on bigger jumps, liked the steep wide open more than technical forest, wide range of riders loved it etc.


I agree with you that it's still good info/useful. I will still maintain that when you have to add a caveat that your rider is too good for the board but it won't be the case for the majority (and we're not talking about a beginner board): you still missed the mark a bit. As I said: the footage helps me situate myself in relation to the rider so it is useful.

Merci pour Snowsurf: je ne connaissais pas. Je vais y jeter un oeil...


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## Yeahti87 (Jan 17, 2019)

Etienne said:


> For me it's still good info: he tested it mainly in the park and for him a Miller flip over a big knuckle is "fun" => says nothing about all-mountain beside occasional sidehit cruising to the park and it's probably a board with more power than I would need for park. Same for that english dude reviewing the Dancehaul (can't remember his name). He cruised it on the summer glacier doing mellow carves/euro-carves and smooth trick on small stuff => says nothing about steeper/more technical terrain (that's fine). Or boardarchive rating "carving boards", you see him laying a euro-carve in between park runs => ok, I know what he means by "carve" (that's fine too, just not my style). To me video doesn't say everything at all, but it gives context.


It looks like you told the Whitelines to post another review to back up your claim hah (and I agree).
The Otto review:





The guy admits he struggled to handle the Otto 161 on an icy groomer (I see the trail so that’s not my ‚icy’ but yet again because I can see the conditions I can relate to his ‚icy’).

When you see him strapping in it doesn’t really look that wide, there is a boot overhang on both sides. Because there is a video edit you can see what he means by carves and a 15 degree board tilt isn’t the level when you are strong enough at carving to really evaluate how a board behaves underfoot in a hard carve (compare it to e.g. Mark Fawcett or TJ heelside carves on all mountain boards).

So while he is a top-tier park rider I’ll never be even close to I can also calibrate his feedback when it comes to carving (how and what conditions he rides and what is his take on it).

And what will be a playful board for him in the park like the Mod will be an unforgiving ride for me there but on the other hand what is too much for him is not enough for me when it comes to other riding aspects (and I regularly ride my friend’s Otto in 157 and have ridden the 161 with 9 US so I know this board perfectly).

The video carries a LOT of feedback and helps to understand what is what for a given rider.


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## philw (8 mo ago)

I think the "Whitelines" things are reasonable reviews, although I read their views on my current daily driver (Hometown Hero) and couldn't believe we were riding the same thing. Perhaps they sized wrong or something - but there was no video, so it was just marketing text which could have been taken from Burton directly.

Probably most people who buy any of these, and probably all who rely on reviews don't ride particularly well, because if you ride a lot then you can try what you want.

Even so, The Good Ride bloke shows that a novice reviewing a board is pointless. Why would anyone care what someone who rides with all their weight on the back leg feels about a board? The board's not got a lot of tail, but the rider's powder technique is very much numpty too. You have to be an expert to quickly understand the difference between boards. Skill helps - novices can't just jump on a board and thrash it, which that Whitelines bloke did. And you can't tell as a novice what's the snow and what's you and what's the board. Experts can "dial in" for a particular board in powder much quicker than a novice.

Looking at this last "review", you can see what the board is pretty clearly, if you can't work that out from the specs and position in their range. 

Actually if you look at the Korua video of that "cafe racer" board, in footage selected by a very expensive looking marketing department, the rider's fighting the board's design now and then. It's clear what they're selling, but the board's obvious fish-like characteristic means it's not going to be as good for what they're selling as other boards.


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## Luffe (Apr 5, 2021)

philw said:


> I think the "Whitelines" things are reasonable reviews, although I read their views on my current daily driver (Hometown Hero) and couldn't believe we were riding the same thing. Perhaps they sized wrong or something - but there was no video, so it was just marketing text which could have been taken from Burton directly.


What would you say is off about the HH review? Got that board myself, so I’m curious to know.


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## Snowdaddy (Feb 2, 2018)

philw said:


> Actually if you look at the Korua video of that "cafe racer" board, in footage selected by a very expensive looking marketing department, the rider's fighting the board's design now and then. It's clear what they're selling, but the board's obvious fish-like characteristic means it's not going to be as good for what they're selling as other boards.


Except it looking like a generally cheap marketing department, it would be interesting to hear you elaborate on the rest of this.


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## philw (8 mo ago)

Luffe said:


> What would you say is off about the HH review? Got that board myself, so I’m curious to know.


I was talking about a text review which_ I thought_ was their's... I looked again just now and they have both text and video, and the video is spot on. I'm not sure if that's the same text, but the text isn't great.... but the video is spot on. My bad... a decent review.


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## NT.Thunder (Jan 4, 2020)

It was pretty Icy there on the groomers last week but looking at that image below which might have been early in the season we had a shite load more coverage as we were dropping into this whitestar run from the clock-tower down to the lift and here it's bare.


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## Luffe (Apr 5, 2021)

philw said:


> I was talking about a text review which_ I thought_ was their's... I looked again just now and they have both text and video, and the video is spot on. I'm not sure if that's the same text, but the text isn't great.... but the video is spot on. My bad... a decent review.


The video is good, but the text is bad and has no info. They didn’t use to have that video.


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## NT.Thunder (Jan 4, 2020)

Etienne said:


> For me it's still good info: he tested it mainly in the park and for him a Miller flip over a big knuckle is "fun" => says nothing about all-mountain beside occasional sidehit cruising to the park and it's probably a board with more power than I would need for park. Same for that english dude reviewing the Dancehaul *(can't remember his name)*. He cruised it on the summer glacier doing mellow carves/euro-carves and smooth trick on small stuff => says nothing about steeper/more technical terrain (that's fine). Or boardarchive rating "carving boards", you see him laying a euro-carve in between park runs => ok, I know what he means by "carve" (that's fine too, just not my style). To me video doesn't say everything at all, but it gives context.
> 
> Now TBH you can also do that with text if you care. That's one thing I really like about Snowsurf (french), it's that they have a varied crew of testers ranging from old schooler too young park/FWT guns and will highlight who like it and why: freestylers found it efficient but boring, heaviers guys found it playful/smaller guys liked it on bigger jumps, liked the steep wide open more than technical forest, wide range of riders loved it etc.


Was that Malcom Moore? I love his videos and riding style, we're all different.

I wouldn't mind seeing a review which has one or two good riders running through all the technical parts of the board and how it rides with good footage but also just pick like 2 or 3 random everday riders from the resort and give them a few laps on the board and hear an every-day riders thoughts. Nothing technical, just a guy on a board cutting a few laps, I reckon that would be interesting.


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## Etienne (Apr 2, 2021)

Yeah Malcom Moore that's it! I really enjoyed it and it's part of many reviews that made me buy a Dancehaul, but I meant I knew I would get nothing interesting about off-piste/steeper/more technical in this review (which isn't obvious if you "radio" the review). I rode this precise glacier more than anything else in my life and I know it won't tell you everything about a board. But don't get me wrong, it made me want to ride the thing!


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## philw (8 mo ago)

Luffe said:


> The video is good, but the text is bad and has no info. They didn’t use to have that video.


Thanks muchly for quoting that. I should have checked (again) before posting, but I did think I was going crazy there for a while. Yeah, the text reads like... BS which is what I remembered.

The video is good, spot on. As is the board. I mostly ride deep powder only, and have always had to carry a different board for resort days, because trad powder boards (including those shaped like that Korua Cafe Racer) are not very enjoyable on hardpack. The HH rocks on hardpack. I never rode the Skeleton Key on hard snow, but I did ride the Dump Truck there and it was like all those other boards, not great. The HH has a similar plan shape and the camber looks to be similar, but they're completely different rides. I think the secret sauce is probably the torsional stiffness, as mentioned in the video.


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## Rip154 (Sep 23, 2017)

its like a mix of goofride and fuckhouse, with slightly more skill and sense


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## IroningBoard (9 mo ago)

I'll say this, I like watching some of these reviews just to see some nice riding and resort / park lines, since usually we just see 2-4 second clips. So as long as they are showing good videos of good riding, it also serves another demographic. Not every review has to be too in depth IMO if they are doing that, just entertaining. If you want cold hard facts on a board, or to create a discussion about it, Avran is probably the go to anyway. As long as they aren't cringey (TGR), I don't see anything wrong. People shouldn't listen to 1 review anyway. And it seems like WhiteLines and others are trying their hardest to listen to the community when it comes to their review formats, so that's also a plus. I guess my stance is I'd rather have more snowboard content than no snowboard content, even if some of the informational opinions are a bit off.


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## unsuspected (Oct 26, 2015)

Rip154 said:


> its like a mix of goofride and fuckhouse, with slightly more skill and sense


So angry asshole?


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## Rip154 (Sep 23, 2017)

unsuspected said:


> So angry asshole?


I dunno, but the constant SHAKABRA and repeating brand information was a bit annoying. I’m not that bothered with reviews either way, they don’t usually have the boards I’m into now, and mainstream boards ride like they always do.


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