# Contest riders, corporate sponsorship, Shaun White haters; it's all hypocrisy.



## phile00 (Jan 7, 2009)

Get ready people, I'm channeling my inner Angry Snowboarder because I feel some of you need some sense talked into you. I'm generally an easy going person for the record. BA's opinionated writing style has given me some inspiration here. 

This is basically an open letter to a particular type of rider that really irks me. The "core" rider who thinks everyone who is successful is sold out. The rider who NEEDS to have a superficial sense of some random pro rider's character to make them feel better about enjoying watching a pro boarder shred. "He cares so much about the sport, he's such a good guy. He just loves what he's doing and has fun". Who doesn't care about the sport? Who fucking snowboards with a frowny face and hates it? Come on people. Keep in mind they're all getting paid to do what they love. Who isn't going to be all sugar and spice when you're living that kind of life?

I'm so tired of everyone wanting to be part of a club. Everyone who hates Shaun White is part of the "I'm core, yo, I live to ride and Shaun is a capitalist pig." Then insert some ANECDOTAL story about how he didn't sign someone's autograph. Oh whatever, get over your own melodrama. I feel the same way for people who say "sold out" and other such things as well. It's old and tired.

I personally don't idolize any rider. Matter of fact, I don't idolize any human. I don't idolize anything. It's a blatant waste of time. Stand-out human beings inspire me and that's where I leave it. In snowboarding, and the wide world of sports in general, aside from a rider being a rapist/murderer or whatever; who gives a flying shit what they do, how much money they have, or anything else for that matter?! It's not up to YOU to judge anyone, because who are YOU? Really, ask yourself that question. What makes YOU the authority?

It's so sad because nowadays Pro athletes have to apologize to the public for cheating on their wives. That's not your business and it has nothing to do with the sport. Stop idolizing people and this absurd bullshit doesn't have to keep happening. It gives the public a false sense of moral superiority. Stop letting the media make you feel like you're Judge Judy. Professional sports wether you like it or not, are all about competition, ego, and MONEY. NBA, NFL, NHL, MLB, ESPN X Games, etc., they want your money! They bathe in your money. And you give it to them so readily.

Every contest rider, every snowboarder who is sponsored, has sold out. They want to get noticed. They want to be popular. They want to be revered. It's called EGO! The corporations who sponsor them are big slow rolling economic cyborgs that have created economies of scale in their own industries and destroy everything in their paths for the ultimate goal of profitability (now I'm being dramatic, but you get the point). That's they world we live in. Stop bitching and change it if you don't like it. They have the power and weight to influence and pay for whatever they want. 

Every contest rider and/or sponsored rider is rocking stickers and wearing clothes. They're nothing but a mobile billboard. Shaun White is a capitalist. He's just doing it better than other people. Let's not forget that without Shaun's corporate sponsors (the same sponsors that sponsor everyone else pretty much), Shaun would have much less power or influence than her currently has. You bash Shaun, but look how many other of your favorite riders are basically mobile Redbull billboards.

Blame the sponsors and stop supporting the riders who take the sponsorships if you're so "core". Btw, all of you hypocrites are probably wearing name brand clothes and consume the products of these companies. But you're so ignorant and blind because you want to be part of a club, so you shut down the rational part of your brain that's yelling at you for how utterly hypocritical you're being. OMG TRAVIS RICE DIDN'T SELL OUT. Wrong. If they're sponsored, they sold out. If you hate Shaun White because he didn't share his Super Pipe with other riders, how about you also hate Redbull for building it for him and giving him a competitive edge. Oh yeah, Travis Rice is sponsored by Redbull as well. So by proxy he's fucking sold out and you should hate him too. He's taking money and perks from a company that you feel is unethical. 

Let me qualify this post with some of my impressions of some great riders:

Shaun White: Awesome in the pipe, really fun to watch because he's very skilled.
Torstein Horgmo: Love watching his slope style talents and smooth confident style, and he makes funny videos that I laugh at.
Travis Rice: Goes big, made an awesome movie, awesome to watch just rip it.

Aside from that, I don't give a flying fuck who sponsors them, what they do in their spare time, how many autographs they didn't sign, or how many babies per day they punch (Well, Ok, I wouldn't like to watch them ride if they punch babies because that's just evil  ). Oh let me also say, Shaun White practiced on that exclusive superpipe because he's a competitive athlete. Any contest rider who is in a competition wants to win and LOVES to win no matter how much they pretend like they're "above it" and "it doesn't matter". Otherwise, why would they compete? If you want to win, then you don't care about sharing and you love the limelight. Winning is egomaniacal. I'm not saying it's wrong at all, but it is what it is. Stop dressing it up and making it look prettier than it really is. Riders who pretend they don't care got you hook, line, and sinker and I find it hilarious. It's a marketing ploy, and it works. It's almost EMO if you think about it. "He's cool because he doesn't care...woahhh, I have a man crushhhh".

Question your beliefs. Why do you think they way you think? Ask yourself if you're being a hypocrite. Stop perpetuating bullshit. Even outside of snowboarding if you wear anything name brand or use anything name brand you're probably a hypocrite. 

Oh and one last thing regarding Shaun White... He's considered the second most influential professional athlete in the US. As a snowboarder, that's unprecedented. Have you ever thought that his talent and the corporate sponsors who've blown him into the stratosphere have maybe opened up the sport to a whole new audience? Stop being selfish. Snowboarding is growing and it's a good thing. Stop pretending you need to like who these total strangers are. Watching a video of a pro rider is a superficial endeavor. Watch them shred and be inspired. Leave it at that.


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## pencap75 (Dec 10, 2008)

The concept of "core" in snowboarding is ridiculous. Just because one rides and does not subscribe to the retarded snowboard bro culture makes him not "core"? 

That said, that tight leather outfit still looks gay. Whites pipe skills are still exceptional.


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## sepdxsnwbrdr (Feb 5, 2010)

Wrong and Wrong.

Would you consider Terje a sellout?


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## little devil (Aug 18, 2009)

tl,dr

Im assuming this essay can be narrowed down to- 










- WAHHHHHHHHHHHH!


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## phile00 (Jan 7, 2009)

pencap75 said:


> The concept of "core" in snowboarding is ridiculous. Just because one rides and does not subscribe to the retarded snowboard bro culture makes him not "core"?
> 
> That said, that tight leather outfit still looks gay. Whites pipe skills are still exceptional.


Haha, agreed about the outfit. 



sepdxsnwbrdr said:


> Wrong and Wrong.
> 
> Would you consider Terje a sellout?


You argument isn't very convincing. I think I made a lot of good points. Do you have an actual counter argument? Let me ask you, does Terje fit my description? If not, then he's not a sellout.


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## phile00 (Jan 7, 2009)

little devil said:


> tl,dr
> 
> Im assuming this essay can be narrowed down to-
> 
> ...


So you decided to not read it, and contribute zero to the thread. Why bother posting at all? I'm also not really whining, just expressing an opinion. I did it rant style just for fun to be honest, but I stand behind everything I say.


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## Leo (Nov 24, 2009)

sepdxsnwbrdr said:


> Wrong and Wrong.
> 
> Would you consider Terje a sellout?


Shhh. Terje's name is never allowed to be entered into any type of debate of this nature. He is a GOD. :thumbsup:


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## sepdxsnwbrdr (Feb 5, 2010)

Have you heard of the Arctic Challenge and it's origins? Terje's boycott of the Nagano Olympics?

Were you around in the 90's? Before all the "Corporate X-Games BS"?

Not everyone that is "sponsored" is a sellout.

Another example of someone that is "core"...Mikey Basich.

I don't have time to beak down your post and provide point-by-point arguments. Do your own fucking research before you get on your soapbox.


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## JoeR (Oct 30, 2010)

sepdxsnwbrdr said:


> Would you consider Terje a sellout?


Here's my definition of a sellout:

Imagine longshoremen who work the docks 18 hours a day, six days a week, with pay docked for meal and bathroom breaks. If a crate falls on your legs and cripples you, you're fired. No medical care provided -- go beg for a living. One guy decides enough is enough, and starts organizing his fellow workers. He compiles a detailed list of demands for better working conditions, spends all his free time educating and persuading his brethren, contacts a union to make plans for a representation election, and tells management the free ride is _over_! The rest of the workers are responding, finally awakening to their rights. One Monday, the longshoremen arrive at the dock and can't find their advocate. Uh oh -- where'd he go? He turns up with a nice new job in a nice comfortable office at the port authority's headquarters, making 10 times what he made on the docks. "Oh, sorry guys -- did I mention that the election is off?"

Before you can be a sellout, you have to have a moral position that can _be_ sold out. In my book, with only rare exceptions, being a professional athlete doesn't qualify.


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## Willy36 (Dec 29, 2008)

How to spout off bullshit and be annoying (and wrong) in one easy step :thumbsup:

Look mate. Let me take something from your own post as a bit of advice to you:

Who the fuck are you? No matter who you think you are, everyone here on this forum thinks you're just some dick on the internet posting a pointless rant whining about people whining. It's a fucking waste of time. Go shred or find a girl. Do something someone will actually give a shit about. Or at least don't make us read some pointless drivel :cheeky4:


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## Leo (Nov 24, 2009)

sepdxsnwbrdr said:


> Have you heard of the Arctic Challenge and it's origins? Terje's boycott of the Nagano Olympics?
> 
> Were you around in the 90's? Before all the "Corporate X-Games BS"?
> 
> ...


I think you are misunderstanding his point about every rider being a sellout. He's using the term "sellout" sarcastically as in every rider is sponsored by someone so they are effectively selling out. Meaning they get paid for doing what they do by these sponsors.

Also, Terje is awesome for doing what he has done and continues to do. Bottom line is, riders like Terje are few out of many.


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## phile00 (Jan 7, 2009)

JoeR said:


> Here's my definition of a sellout:
> 
> Imagine longshoremen who work the docks 18 hours a day, six days a week, with pay docked for meal and bathroom breaks. If a crate falls on your legs and cripples you, you're fired. No medical care provided -- go beg for a living. One guy decides enough is enough, and starts organizing his fellow workers. He compiles a detailed list of demands for better working conditions, spends all his free time educating and persuading his brethren, contacts a union to make plans for a representation election, and tells management the free ride is _over_! The rest of the workers are responding, finally awakening to their rights. One Monday, the longshoremen arrive at the dock and can't find their advocate. Uh oh -- where'd he go? He turns up with a nice new job in a nice comfortable office at the port authority's headquarters, making 10 times what he made on the docks. "Oh, sorry guys -- did I mention that the election is off?"
> 
> Before you can be a sellout, you have to have a moral position that can _be_ sold out. In my book, with only rare exceptions, being a professional athlete doesn't qualify.


Agreed. I think this basically supports my argument that "selling out" is a stupid phrase.


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## phile00 (Jan 7, 2009)

sepdxsnwbrdr said:


> Have you heard of the Arctic Challenge and it's origins? Terje's boycott of the Nagano Olympics?
> 
> Were you around in the 90's? Before all the "Corporate X-Games BS"?
> 
> ...


Yes. Some issues and riders, such as Terje are time sensitive in that they were doin their thing before all of this corporate stuff. Brian Noguchi is a great example as well. He just got out of the limelight and focused on his love for snowboarding. But that's clearly not what I'm talking about. 



Leo said:


> I think you are misunderstanding his point about every rider being a sellout. He's using the term "sellout" sarcastically as in every rider is sponsored by someone so they are effectively selling out. Meaning they get paid for doing what they do by these sponsors.
> 
> Also, Terje is awesome for doing what he has done and continues to do. Bottom line is, riders like Terje are few out of many.


^This. Thank you for clarifying Leo. It seems people are already misinterpreting what I said.


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## BurtonAvenger (Aug 14, 2007)

Is it selling out or cashing in? That's what you should be looking at.


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## lisevolution (Sep 20, 2007)

Terje rallied against snowboarding being in the olympics and even went as far as to boycott. Fast forward and now he's out having dinner with the head of the IOC to advocate slopestyle making it as a medal competition in the next olympics. 

Even a guy who was so against everything that snowboarding in the olympics stands for, realizes that in order for the sport to continue to thrive and succeed more exposure and better representation needs to happen.


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## JeffreyCH (Nov 21, 2009)

While I can't really comment on snowboarding, I can comment on x-sports in general. I was a "core" skater in the 80's, pretty damn good for the day. I loved it, lived it, and breathed it for years. As I got older the mundane things in life took over, rent, work, bills all that adult shit that takes over and pushes those things you love to the background. I was also a hell of a baseball player, but hated it, all I wanted to do was skate, so I never "sold out" to the establishment to play ball. If there would have been some way to make a living skating I would have done it in a second, or at least gave it a shot.

I think it's great that kids today have the chance to turn pro in any of these sports. I think it boils down to jealousy, Monday rolls around and it's back to the shitty job, with a shitty check, and a boss breathing down your throat. While Shaun does what he loves, cashes a paycheck for more then you will make in years and is partying it up someplace after a weekend of "working" 

Now if the guy sucked and was constantly pushed up as the greatest thing since sliced bread then there would be a problem, but he doesn't, right now he is the king of the pipe(or queen if you judge by his outfit lol) and there are 1000's of kids pushing it to take that crown, I see that as a good thing. 

If anything, x-sports need to be structured more like main stream sports, who sponsors NFL, NBA, MLB? They sponsor themselves, the players have unions, insurance for injuries ect. Think about it, if there was a league and structured teams, would it hurt or help the sport?


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## phile00 (Jan 7, 2009)

BurtonAvenger said:


> Is it selling out or cashing in? That's what you should be looking at.


BA, that's actually my point. If you're getting paid to do it, then it's either right or wrong. But too many people are hypocritical about it. 

One of my favorite examples is how so many people complained about Shaun White not sharing his super pipe with other people. Firstly, is that really the case? Did he specifically say other people couldn't ride it? But my major point is that Redbull (and I think Oakley?) paid for it. They wanted him to have a competitive edge. Competition is competition. That's part of the game. The people who hate Shaun for that should also hate Redbull and Oakley, and probably stop supporting the riders who are sponsored Redbull and Oakley as well. Otherwise, I say they shouldn't complain because it's contradictory. It's like being dead set against abortion, but going to an abortion doctor that also happens to be a really good primary care doctor. Go somewhere else if you don't like it! 

I personally have no problem with it. I love watching contests, I love watching video parts, I love wearing nice, quality made gear, and I also love to ride. It all goes hand in hand. It all takes money. Some of the corporations, wether people like it or not, are progressing the sport by making it more noticeable.


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## phile00 (Jan 7, 2009)

lisevolution said:


> Terje rallied against snowboarding being in the olympics and even went as far as to boycott. Fast forward and now he's out having dinner with the head of the IOC to advocate slopestyle making it as a medal competition in the next olympics.
> 
> Even a guy who was so against everything that snowboarding in the olympics stands for, realizes that in order for the sport to continue to thrive and succeed more exposure and better representation needs to happen.


Well put. I follow this logic as well, as evidenced by my post. 

And just to further clarify to whoever is reading this, I don't judge on either side of the coin. Basically I'm saying either be "core" and follow that to the bitter end without being hypocritical, or join the rest of us and stop pretending.


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## phile00 (Jan 7, 2009)

JeffreyCH said:


> I think it's great that kids today have the chance to turn pro in any of these sports. I think it boils down to jealousy, Monday rolls around and it's back to the shitty job, with a shitty check, and a boss breathing down your throat. While Shaun does what he loves, cashes a paycheck for more then you will make in years and is partying it up someplace after a weekend of "working"
> 
> Now if the guy sucked and was constantly pushed up as the greatest thing since sliced bread then there would be a problem, but he doesn't, right now he is the king of the pipe(or queen if you judge by his outfit lol) and there are 1000's of kids pushing it to take that crown, I see that as a good thing.


You hit the nail on the head.



JeffreyCH said:


> If anything, x-sports need to be structured more like main stream sports, who sponsors NFL, NBA, MLB? They sponsor themselves, the players have unions, insurance for injuries ect. Think about it, if there was a league and structured teams, would it hurt or help the sport?


It's funny you say that, because I was actually thinking this when I started this thread. I have all kinds of ideas for how I'd structure a snowboarding league. I think if done properly it could be great fun. Does snowboarding need that? Nope. But it might be cool. Who knows?

People resist new ideas when they feel it encroaches on their security. Many people feel secure in saying that they are a snowboarder, that they participate in a dangerous sport that is difficult to learn and master. They want that all for themselves because it makes them feel superior and exclusive in some ways. Many walks of life participate in this kind of elitism. I think it's a bad attitude.


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## baldylox (Dec 27, 2007)

> *false sense of moral superiority.*


10 characters


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## JeffreyCH (Nov 21, 2009)

I think in a lot of ways a league would be better, it would add a more professional air to it. Rather then having sponsored riders, the teams would give endorsements, rather then espn and mt. dew owning the competitions it would be in the hands of the league. What hoops do you suppose Reebok goes through to keep their deal with the NFL? Major networks pay to air games not the other way around. 

I think that would put the power in the riders hands where it belongs. After all, those are the guys that risk life and limb to do what thy do, why shouldn't they be able to cash in on it and not be pushed around by big corporations. 

I'd be interested to know how Burton is treating Kevin Pierce, did they help with his medical bills? Did they honor his contract even though he will probably never ride professionally again? Or did they dump him like a hot potato and leave him hanging? It would also be interesting to see what all is really included in a big time snowboarding contract?


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## phile00 (Jan 7, 2009)

cifex said:


> 10 characters


If this is a knock on me, nowhere did I say I was morally superior. It's a call to arms to get people to stop being so hypocritical. As evidenced by the fourth post above this, you'll see I don't judge either way unless you're a hypocrite. I'm saying be core or be mainstream, but stick to your guns. You can't have it both ways. Nice try 

That said, I did make commentary on how I believe people shouldn't idolize each other. I think it's a pretty reasonable opinion though.


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## phile00 (Jan 7, 2009)

JeffreyCH said:


> I think in a lot of ways a league would be better, it would add a more professional air to it. Rather then having sponsored riders, the teams would give endorsements, rather then espn and mt. dew owning the competitions it would be in the hands of the league. What hoops do you suppose Reebok goes through to keep their deal with the NFL? Major networks pay to air games not the other way around.
> 
> I think that would put the power in the riders hands where it belongs. After all, those are the guys that risk life and limb to do what thy do, why shouldn't they be able to cash in on it and not be pushed around by big corporations.
> 
> I'd be interested to know how Burton is treating Kevin Pierce, did they help with his medical bills? Did they honor his contract even though he will probably never ride professionally again? Or did they dump him like a hot potato and leave him hanging? It would also be interesting to see what all is really included in a big time snowboarding contract?


It's an aggressive idea, but it sounds pretty neat to me. I really haven't weighed the negatives at this point, but you're right in that it seems like it would give more power to the riders rather than the companies. I'm pretty sure Mtn. Dew and Redbull wouldn't like this to happen though 

Regarding Kevin pierce, that whole situation is tragic. I wonder how sponsors are treating him... He seemed pretty happy go lucky at the X games but it was definitely sad to see, especially knowing he was such a great rider.


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## BurtonAvenger (Aug 14, 2007)

You put structure and order in snowboarding and that's another nail in the coffin.


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## 604al (Mar 11, 2008)

good post OP, I agree with the core of your rant.


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## phile00 (Jan 7, 2009)

BurtonAvenger said:


> You put structure and order in snowboarding and that's another nail in the coffin.


Depends on how you look at it. No matter where snowboarding goes in the future, it's not really going to change how you ride, where you ride, or how much you enjoy riding.


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## Mooz (Aug 14, 2007)

phile00 said:


> I don't idolize any human.


You should idolize Indiana Jones. He's a badass and has a hat. That's also pretty much where I stopped reading. Too many words, not enough tits. Do you think I have unlimited time to waste on the interwebs? Well sir, I do not. My time wasting time is limited and could be better spent watching squirrels water ski or learning how fucking magnets work. If I wanted to read a book, I would go read an actual book. One with tits!


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## BurtonAvenger (Aug 14, 2007)

I believe a book with tits is called porn.


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## phile00 (Jan 7, 2009)

Mooz said:


> You should idolize Indiana Jones. He's a badass and has a hat. That's also pretty much where I stopped reading. Too many words, not enough tits. Do you think I have unlimited time to waste on the interwebs? Well sir, I do not. My time wasting time is limited and could be better spent watching squirrels water ski or learning how fucking magnets work. If I wanted to read a book, I would go read an actual book. One with tits!


Fuckin' magnets, how do they work?!?! hahah. Please tell me you've seen that godawful Insane Clown Posse video! It's so terrible.


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## Grasschopper (Jan 7, 2010)

Damian Sanders and Shawn Farmer were sell outs.


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## Mooz (Aug 14, 2007)

phile00 said:


> Fuckin' magnets, how do they work?!?! hahah. Please tell me you've seen that godawful Insane Clown Posse video! It's so terrible.


Fuck no. I have less time ICP than I have for your long ass humorless rant :cheeky4:


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## burritosandsnow (Nov 22, 2008)

of course your rant was rendered null and void when Shaun White said himself that snowboarding for him wasnt fun


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## mallrat (Oct 27, 2009)

Grasschopper said:


> Damian Sanders and Shawn Farmer were sell outs.


You're probably sarcastic but,

Damian got paid too do blow, bang strippers and ride a snowboard. Dude was as punk as they come. Find out about the hammer handle story. He was the exact same guy when he was doing framing or contstruction. He's the perfect example of what isn't a sellout. He never compromised his beliefs for a sponsor.


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## phile00 (Jan 7, 2009)

burritosandsnow said:


> of course your rant was rendered null and void when Shaun White said himself that snowboarding for him wasnt fun


Sorry, Shaun White wasn't at the crux of my argument, so nothing is rendered null and void. Also, do you have a citation for Shaun White's purported statement? I can't find it in google. My argument was about the hypocrisy of "core" vs. mainstream attitude when most core snowboarders participate readily in the mainstream but pick and choose what is ok and what isn't ok, often to a contradictory end.


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## phile00 (Jan 7, 2009)

mallrat said:


> You're probably sarcastic but,
> 
> Damian got paid too do blow, bang strippers and ride a snowboard. Dude was as punk as they come. Find out about the hammer handle story. He was the exact same guy when he was doing framing or contstruction. He's the perfect example of what isn't a sellout. He never compromised his beliefs for a sponsor.


Well he took their money  And they new that no matter what he did, they knew they'd make money by sponsoring him. And I'm sure they did things he didn't like. I think it's just fine he took sponsorship money. I have zero problem with it personally.

But I find it ridiculous to complain about what the company does if you take their money. That's like thinking Saddam Hussein is a genocidal despot, one of the most filthy human being to ever live, then letting him pay you a salary, buy you a condo and a couple of vacations.


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## Grasschopper (Jan 7, 2010)

mallrat said:


> You're probably sarcastic but,
> 
> Damian got paid too do blow, bang strippers and ride a snowboard. Dude was as punk as they come. Find out about the hammer handle story. He was the exact same guy when he was doing framing or contstruction. He's the perfect example of what isn't a sellout. He never compromised his beliefs for a sponsor.


Yup pretty much completely sarcastic. Hell I bought a Kick 165 back in the day but no way was a rocking the hard boots (on my freestyle board) or all the neon.  Man I miss those Fall Line Films movies...why did I get rid of them?...did they ever make DVD versions?


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## phile00 (Jan 7, 2009)

burritosandsnow said:


> of course your rant was rendered null and void when Shaun White said himself that snowboarding for him wasnt fun


Yeah...actually you took what he said out of context. He said that it doesn't always have to be fun. For him it's a fulfilling feeling. It renders nothing that I said null and void. 

As an aside, most people will misinterpret my OP simply because it's not 3 sentences long (low attention spans). Other posters in this thread have helped clarify my point, and I have yet to see actual reasoned evidence to the contrary pointing out the flaws in my POV.


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## dkimxd (Nov 13, 2011)

You can't be a sellout and be a pro at any sport.. You're getting paid to do what you love, you wouldn't be that good and have dedicated that much time into becoming a pro if you didn't love it. Now you would be a sellout if someone offered you a million dollars a year for the rest of your life if you never played that sport again, but I honestly don't think ANYONE would take that offer.. 

As for this topic.. I don't see any point in it. There is no reason for you to tell other people that their opinions are wrong.. This isn't Nazi Germany.


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## phile00 (Jan 7, 2009)

dkimxd said:


> You can't be a sellout and be a pro at any sport.. You're getting paid to do what you love, you wouldn't be that good and have dedicated that much time into becoming a pro if you didn't love it. Now you would be a sellout if someone offered you a million dollars a year for the rest of your life if you never played that sport again, but I honestly don't think ANYONE would take that offer..


That's what I was getting at. The notion and the usage of the phrase "selling out" is stupid. You seem to agree with me here...



> As for this topic.. I don't see any point in it. There is no reason for you to tell other people that their opinions are wrong.. This isn't Nazi Germany.


Well I'm expressing my opinion, that's freedom of speech. Having an opinion and being able to express it certainly isn't fascism..isn't it the opposite?

I do not remember telling people their opinions were wrong. I posted this thread a long time ago, but I remember pointing out the hypocrisy. It was merely a rant to get people to think about their thoughts and actions on this subject. Because frankly, the people who are "core" often times are elitists, and look down on other riders because they have nothing better to do. And that's a bummer. 

Anyhow, a message board is nothing but opinion. I'm sure if I bothered to go through your post history, you'd be offering all sorts of opinions, some maybe even more passionate than others. This is general chat, and this is the place for discussion. If you do not like it, do not reply. No one forced you to express your opinion.


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## ThunderChunky (Oct 1, 2011)

Go Away!!!!


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