# Waterproof camera VS Action camera



## poutanen (Dec 22, 2011)

I think the biggest issue is the waterproof point and shoots are bigger than the already bulbous GoPro. They'd be useless as a POV cam. As a pole mount then I don't see a problem, as long as they've got the same or better specs (sensor size, frame rate, battery life, etc.) then there's no reason not to use them. Probably millions of mounts out there for the standard 1/4" base.

Alternatively, there are several waterproof action/POV cams out there designed to do exactly what you want it to do.

I'm taking another route, I find POV cams okay for chase video, and the occasional shakey vid showing my route through a run. But otherwise the video is crap (doesn't matter which camera). So I'm going to pick-up a video capable DSLR one of these days and use an action rig with it. I already have an older DSLR that I've used for on snow shots, and got pics like this.










I'm looking for a Canon 5D MKII for video and stills. :yahoo:


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## Argo (Feb 25, 2010)

I have 4 different pov cameras and they are way way way better than my waterproof sony point and shoot. I also recently(6 months ago) picked up a dslr, it's video quality is amazing. Pictures, more amazing. For ease of use in difficult areas, without a pro camera guy, I would go with pov. I have a canon 60d, the video quality is equal to the 5d. 5d is a way way better portrait and indoor camera though. The 60d & 70d are amazing for action shots and HD video. Over the past few months I have shot pics and video with them all and I'm still happy with my money savings getting the 60d. 

On the pov side, I still prefer drift HD ghost. Gopro black edition is too buggy and has really bad battery life for me to like using it on any regular basis.


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## poutanen (Dec 22, 2011)

Argo said:


> I have a canon 60d, the video quality is equal to the 5d. 5d is a way way better portrait and indoor camera though. The 60d & 70d are amazing for action shots and HD video. Over the past few months I have shot pics and video with them all and I'm still happy with my money savings getting the 60d.


It's funny cause this thread just sparked me to look again at all the models. I have been lusting for a 5D MKII for the last year or so, because I want to do two main things:

1) Take landscapes and some close up wildlife photography to blow up and put on my walls (my current Digital Rebel 6.3 mp isn't half bad at that!).

2) Take GOOD snowboarding videos and stills a couple times a year.

I'm starting to think that a 60D would be fine for my needs. I always wanted a full frame for the landscapes, but I'm sure the 60D would still blow me away at the sizes I want to blow things up to (3' x 4' or so).

What do you think? All my lenses are EF mount, but I think they're all compatible still between EF and EF-S right?

Edit: Okay now I'm trying to figure between the 5D MKII, 60D, 6D, or 7D... 6D might be the target, being full frame and a little higher MP than the 60D or 7D, but still cheaper than the 5D MKII.


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## ShredLife (Feb 6, 2010)

megapixels don't really matter at this point... its all about sensor size, focusing speed and points, and what you want to do with it.. FF better for landscape, portrait; crop sensor better for wildlife, action sports...


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## Argo (Feb 25, 2010)

I have never used the 6d/7d.... I'm sure they are great. I honestly could not see the difference in the full frame 5d Mk shots and my 60d. I did not blow anything up to posters though and don't care about portrait - landscape

The only real upgrade in the 70d seems to be the cool touch screen. If. You have the cash I would go straight to the 6/7d. If not just stick with the 60d. The 70d is not worth the extra $4-600


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## Casual (Feb 9, 2011)

poutanen said:


> It's funny cause this thread just sparked me to look again at all the models. I have been lusting for a 5D MKII for the last year or so, because I want to do two main things:
> 
> 1) Take landscapes and some close up wildlife photography to blow up and put on my walls (my current Digital Rebel 6.3 mp isn't half bad at that!).
> 
> ...


Well, for what you have listed I would say 7D. 6D and 60D have plastic body and lower build quality, I would cut them out. If you have any EF-S lenses they won't work on a FF body so thats a choice you have to make. So between the 7D and 5DMKII...

Here's my breakdown.

7D - Higher FPS for stills, crop sensor gives you more reach with your lenses (better for close ups of wildlife), smaller and lighter which is nice for video as you have to carry the thing. Smaller video files gives you more video on your cards. Faster/better autofocus. Accepts your EF-S lenses.

5D - Better IQ (arguable), higher MP (doesn't matter), larger sensor is better in low light and better DOF. Wider FOV with same lenses, good for landscape.

Basically if you were looking to do portraits and landscape only I would say 5D, but for video, wildlife and sports the 7D is a better bet. If you pop a 10-22 on it your gonna be super wide and make up for the crop frame. Getting more reach out of a 70-300 is a big deal though (like having a 480mm on a 5d). you will notice that bigtime when your trying to shoot a bird or a moose thats far away. The autofocus is alaso more advanced on the 7D.

What lenses do you have?


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## ShredLife (Feb 6, 2010)

Casual said:


> Well, for what you have listed I would say 7D. 6D and 60D have plastic body and lower build quality, I would cut them out. If you have any EF-S lenses they won't work on a FF body so thats a choice you have to make. So between the 7D and 5DMKII...
> 
> Here's my breakdown.
> 
> ...


pretty much this. 


i have a 7d and its tits. i also have the EF-S 10-22mm and it is fucking rad. i love wide angle shit... the main reason i'd still like a FF is low light/difficult indoor stuff, but also to take advantage of the wider ends of other lenses i have.. sometimes its annoying when you have a $1000 piece of glass and the wide end is cropped 1.6x

for wildlife and sports the 7d is pretty much it bc of the focusing and crop sensor... and it doesn't really fall short for landscapes and portraits at all, just not as optimal as the FF (larger sensor = better low light/less noise, more dynamic range, wide.)


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## poutanen (Dec 22, 2011)

Thanks gents (I use the term loosly... ) both my lenses are EF. I've got a Sigma 18-55 and a Canon 75-300. Nothing fancy, but I do tend to use the 75-300 at full zoom quite often. That pic above was taken with a 200 mm focal length.

Only trouble is the 7D is fairly close in price to the 5D MKII... :dunno:


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## Casual (Feb 9, 2011)

7D came out a year later. Used the 7D is seling for $1000-$1200, the 5DMKII is more like $1500-$1700. Close in price doesn't have to mean anything though, one is more suited to your needs.

If I were you I would trade the 75-300 and get a 70-300 (way better IQ).

Canon or Sigma 10-20ish
Keep the 18-55 if you like it, or get a 17-85 IS USM
70-300 IS USM

Then your all set. One day if you feel like dropping hard cash get some red rings on your lenses.

I have Sigma 10-20, 17-40L, 24-105L, 70-300 IS USM, 50 1.4, 100 2.8 Macro a 5DMKIII and 50D.

What I really want is a Canon G16 because most of the time I don't feel like carrying any of that shit I listed above lol. My wife and I have a portrait biz so most of it just sits unless she is shooting. I love my 50D with the 10-20 for skateboarding and shit as well as landscape, I also love the 70-300... I don't shoot mid range much.


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## BigmountainVMD (Oct 9, 2011)

I had a waterproof, freeze proof, shock proof Panasonic Lumix TS1 (the original model) and while it was quite functional, it was horrible as an action cam due to the lack of fisheye/viewing angle and lack of good shock/vibration reduction.

Every video of me snowboarding would be shaky as hell the lack of viewing angle made it impossible to crop the video to reduce vibration.


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## Casual (Feb 9, 2011)

g_ngan said:


> The GoPro has made a big impact for a lot of sports however, they are not the only one out there that offers action cameras. No doubt that the advantage for GoPro would be the accessories variety that they offer.
> 
> I always wonder why can’t we use the waterproof camera from different brands (e.g. Sony TX series) for these action activities. These cameras are capable of what GoPro can do and do more. It use the standard screw size (1/4” thread), which is a standard features where different brands or other aftermarket brands can make products for. The only downside I see is that it doesn’t offer many different mounts that the GoPro does. I do not see that it will be that difficult to create different mount for the 1/4“ thread.
> 
> ...


OP - most POV action cameras have a very wide FOV which makes it easy to capture action sports while being close up, it also makes camera shake less noticable. They usually have some technology built in to reduce camera shake as well. On top of this they are designed for video so they have optimal battery and recording for video. A waterproof camera will probably be around 35mm on average and will have a lot of camera shake, the battery will probably not last very long with video either. So if you like short clips of shaky seizure inducing video that is the way to go.


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## hktrdr (Apr 3, 2012)

Casual said:


> OP - most POV action cameras have a very wide FOV which makes it easy to capture action sports while being close up, it also makes camera shake less noticable. They usually have some technology built in to reduce camera shake as well. On top of this they are designed for video so they have optimal battery and recording for video. A waterproof camera will probably be around 35mm on average and will have a lot of camera shake, the battery will probably not last very long with video either. So if you like short clips of shaky seizure inducing video that is the way to go.


+1 - that plus frame rates, sub-optimal image processing for video, rolling shutters, etc. are all issues with P&S cameras.


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## g_ngan (Mar 18, 2012)

poutanen said:


> It's funny cause this thread just sparked me to look again at all the models. I have been lusting for a 5D MKII for the last year or so, because I want to do two main things:
> 
> 1) Take landscapes and some close up wildlife photography to blow up and put on my walls (my current Digital Rebel 6.3 mp isn't half bad at that!).
> 
> ...


For taking photos, any of these will do a great job. I've used 60D for a trip and it's definitely a great DSLR for photos. It really depends what you need and do. If you do not need the FPS then a 6D will be enough. If all you need is FPS then 7D is sufficient (7D MKII is rumor to be release). Just remember that 60D is not water sealed so they may affect your choice too. I bought a 5D MKIII for the low noise performance and FPS for my motorcycle shootings. 

As for the videos, none of these will do a great job. DSLR sucks at action videos because you need to manual focus all the time. If you are shooting videos as a chase person then it will be near impossible. If you are standing in one spot then that may be better.




Casual said:


> OP - most POV action cameras have a very wide FOV which makes it easy to capture action sports while being close up, it also makes camera shake less noticable. They usually have some technology built in to reduce camera shake as well. On top of this they are designed for video so they have optimal battery and recording for video. A waterproof camera will probably be around 35mm on average and will have a lot of camera shake, the battery will probably not last very long with video either. So if you like short clips of shaky seizure inducing video that is the way to go.


That’s also one of the things I realize when I am doing my research. The GoPro has 8mm focal while my Sony is 25mm. The battery life sucks on both anyway. I will be carrying an external USB battery juice.



hktrdr said:


> +1 - that plus frame rates, sub-optimal image processing for video, rolling shutters, etc. are all issues with P&S cameras.


The P&S that I plan to use is capable of 1080i with 60FPS so that should be good enough? Let me mount it on to my car and see if it is any good.


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## hardasacatshead (Aug 21, 2013)

Casual - if you want a top notch point and shoot I highly highly recommend the Sony RX-100 - it's my backup camera and it's really sensational. I'd almost put it above a G16. 

Here's my 2c. Being something of a photography fanatic I've been through a lot of bodies, lenses and as a result $$$. I've had a 400D, 40D, 5DMkII, 1Dsmk2 and now 5DMkIII. I shoot with primes mostly (14mm f/2.8, TS-E 24mm, 35mm f/1.4, 84mm f/1.4, 70-200mm f/2.8 II) Of the lot the 5D3 is by far the best for stills of landscapes and portraits while kicking everything bar the 1Dx's ass for sport/action. The AF is bang on and shits all over the already great 7D. For video it's also delicious.

For the record, image quality is much better on the 5D3 than anything in the crop sensor fleet and the only thing that comes close is the 6D (of course the 1Dx is better but it's a different beast that bad boy). 

For video though it's a tricky one. You're not going to get a great autofocusing DSLR for video, that's the nuts and bolts of it. The new 70D is a big step up and after playing with it for a bit it's pretty damn quick for video. So in that respect it's without a doubt your best bet. 

But the reason a lot of people use a DSLR for video is to get the same narrow depth of field characteristics achievable otherwise only with a $150k video camera. If you go for a crop sensor camera you'll lose a lot of that ability. It'll still be better than your typical go pro footage by far but you cannot get the same subject isolation as with a full frame body for a given aperture. 

Take that with a grain of salt I guess, if I were looking for a dedicated video body and had the cash I'd still go for a 5D3. Why?

- It's built like a fucking tank. I've hauled mine all over the world this year and it's copped a beating but hasn't missed a beat. It's been in heavy rain, snow, 45deg C belting sun and it's been spot on. Many other bodies don't have the same weather sealing and build quality. 

- Full frame = better low light ability/less noise at high ISOs, better subject isolation, better dynamic range and wider wide end. 

- Magic Lantern firmware rocks and the 5D3 stable release can't be far off. I've been using the alphas/betas for a while and they work anyway. 

If I didn't have the cash for that then I'd probably move toward a 70D, purely because it's got great AF for video which is something lacking on everything else. If you're going to get a DSLR rig with a serious follow focus setup then shell out for the 6D. If you don't shoot action stills and like landscapes/portraits it's spot on.

I hope I haven't confused you. I have certainly confused myself. My head hurts...


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## hktrdr (Apr 3, 2012)

g_ngan said:


> The P&S that I plan to use is capable of 1080i with 60FPS so that should be good enough? Let me mount it on to my car and see if it is any good.


If that thing is indeed recording interlaced, then that points to some data rate issues/bottle necks. Would probably imply a lot of compression and poor image processing as well.


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## g_ngan (Mar 18, 2012)

hktrdr said:


> If that thing is indeed recording interlaced, then that points to some data rate issues/bottle necks. Would probably imply a lot of compression and poor image processing as well.


What do you mean by data rate/ bottleneck? I believe the tx10 is capable of recording avchd or mp4.


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## hktrdr (Apr 3, 2012)

g_ngan said:


> What do you mean by data rate/ bottleneck? I believe the tx10 is capable of recording avchd or mp4.


I fit is the TX10 then it does indeed not do full 1080p - just 1080i in AVCHD, and only 1440x1080p in MP4.

Also, while the official bit rate is 24 Mbps for 1080i AVCHD, that was always a bit suspicious considering how long it takes for video recording to start/finish. There is definitely a bottleneck in the system and I suspect the processing/compression is it.


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## Casual (Feb 9, 2011)

g_ngan said:


> As for the videos, none of these will do a great job. DSLR sucks at action videos because you need to manual focus all the time. If you are shooting videos as a chase person then it will be near impossible. If you are standing in one spot then that may be better.


Actually if you put an ultra wide lens or a fisheye on it the dof is from about 1ft to infinity so why would this be a concern?


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