# Magnetraction vs Vario



## Dano (Sep 16, 2009)

Hey all, 

I'm picking a new set-up this year and a big factor for me is edge hold and control on shit snow. The last couple years where I ride have been absolutely insane for dry deep powder but this is usually never the case (between early Jan-mid Feb at least). So I'm looking for a stiff RC board to handle both these riding conditions and my style. The 2 I've narrowed it down to are the T.rice and the Heritage. 

Here's the issue. Never Summer is virtually non-existent up hear with the exeption of one or two and even though NS has a ton of hype (and I'm completely sure for good reason), it's hard for me to order a snowboard that I've never ridden let alone touched or seen, based on Internet hype alone (and also tough for me not to buy local). On the other hand, even though my buddy's T.rice is an awesome and fun deck to ride, I don't like how every second person has one. Even though that's more evidence it's a solid stick, it's a little mainstream if ya know what I mean. 

Any help guiding this $500+ purchase would be greatly appreciated, Thanx.


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## TofuSama (May 20, 2010)

As far as I know, Magnetraction is stronger than Vario for edge grip. Not that I have any experience with either, but that seems to be what people here are saying.


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## Leo (Nov 24, 2009)

Good ol' NS vs Lib 

My two pickles:

Magnetraction: No comparison when it comes to edge hold on crap. It is hands down the best design for this purpose. One consistent problem is the complaints about it being too sticky. However, taking an edge tool to it will virtually alleviate this problem without sacrificing the edge hold.

Vario: The second best option (excluding magnetraction variations). Some people find this to be the best option because it's not as "sticky" as mtx. I ride on ice/hardpack 99.9% of the time and vario worked well enough. However, comparing the Evo to the Naner, the Naner holds up much better on ice. I make this comparison because both are softer decks. The naner even with its softer flex, still held it's edge really well on ice. The Evo got sketchy.

Keep in mind, I'm talking really shitty East Coast man-made snow. 

Other observations are the Lib Techs are generally heavier. The Evo and Proto are noticeably lighter than the Naner and TRice (reg model). NS Topsheets, especially carbonium, are super durable. Lib Tech bases are more durable in my opinion though. Both brands' bases are plenty fast (sintered).

I haven't ridden the Heritage and I loved the T.Rice. Hard decision for sure though because the two NS boards I rode are my two current favorites for their intended use :laugh:


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## CheeseForSteeze (May 11, 2011)

If you are careful about driving your edges around on high grade hardpack, Variogrip will be enough grip. The worst conditions I rode last year were Feburary in Killington and I didn't have any problems going around the dubs on my park sized Evo (151).


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## ecks (Oct 6, 2010)

I took the proto out during one of the iciest days at Windham and it was able to hold it edge on just pure ice without a problem. I was surprised its how well it handled so I am not sure how much better mtx can be but if its any better than vario then its unnecessary since vario hold up just fine in what I thought was the worst conditions imaginable. 

Just my opinion though, I haven't tried any libtech board.


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## B.Gilly (Jul 23, 2008)

I have ridden both forms in the last couple years along the east coast. I prefer vario grip over Magne-Traction. I did find Magne-Traction a bit to sticky for me, even though it did dig in very well in the ice, Vario Grip was much smoother for transitioning from edge to edge for me while still having great bite. Once either one is locked into a turn the perform the same task, 

Edge hold will be fine with either system for the most part. Just boils down to you as a rider though, skill level and riding style plays more of a role in ice then the edge tech in my opinion. For me the main issue is the I do not have to work the board as much with Vario as I do with Magne(talking about the stickiness of transitions that I experience)which equates to less fatigue.


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## Leo (Nov 24, 2009)

Have you tried detuning the edges on mtx Gilly?

I wholeheartedly agree with riding style. I personally don't find mtx to be sticky.

In the end, overall, I like NS boards more than Lib Tech's. The only Lib Tech board I would consider over an NS one is the Banana Magic.


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## B.Gilly (Jul 23, 2008)

I do detune the tips and tail but not the entire edge. To me I find it odd to alter the edge that much but I do keep my edges very sharp on all my boards and touch them up probably more then is needed.

I do know some guys that run Lib tech and love them so not really a hate on the edge tech just not for me.


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## Leo (Nov 24, 2009)

B.Gilly said:


> I do detune the tips and tail but not the entire edge. To me I find it odd to alter the edge that much but I do keep my edges very sharp on all my boards and touch them up probably more then is needed.
> 
> I do know some guys that run Lib tech and love them so not really a hate on the edge tech just not for me.


You're just like me with edges. I don't even bother with the tip and tail. I just ride the boards as is.

I was just asking because I found that mtx detuning solved the "sticky" problem for people.


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## B.Gilly (Jul 23, 2008)

Leo said:


> You're just like me with edges. I don't even bother with the tip and tail. I just ride the boards as is.
> 
> I was just asking because I found that mtx detuning solved the "sticky" problem for people.


I guess my slight engineering background feels it it wrong to change something that was designed for a purpose. I am old and set in my ways sometimes.


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## CheeseForSteeze (May 11, 2011)

Edges can be tuned or detuned for different variety of purposes without compromising board function. Instead of changing it from it design purpose, I think of it as closely optimizing it for a more specific purpose

Snowboarders have it a bit easier, particularly since snowboarding is mostly freestyle/freeride oriented rather than alpine oriented. Ski racers will tune base and side angle edges to 0.25 degree increments on Wintersteiger machines so their base and edge angles achieve the right combination of grip and turn in. It will vary for outside and inside edges. Some skiiers will even set up a progressive or degressive tune tip to tail depending on the conditions and grades being ridden.

Luckily, most snowboarders can get away with an 89/89 tune and a detune contact point to nose/tail. This will handle 90% of the riding most people will do.

East coast is a bit sketchier because everything is hardpack so sharp edges are kind of required, but because there's no pow, there is a huge focus on freestyle making detuning for kinks somewhat desirable. I find a 88.5 or 88.0 degree base with a 89.5 or 89.0 side edge for a 91.0 degree set works pretty well as a compromise.

One rule of tuning I personally follow is to always tune a little bit at a time and to tune the base edge first before you remove side edge. You can always overtune the side edge to get more grip later. The only thing you have to worry about lifting the base edge bevel up too much is riding steep grades becomes more of a chore.

You won't hurt your board by detuning the nose and tail. The only reason the edges are fully wrapped is to protect against damage. This is something Mervin doesn't do and I really can't see it saving much in the way of materials, weight or cost.


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## B.Gilly (Jul 23, 2008)

Changing the bevel is a personal preference for sure me I run 90/90 but most of my buddies run 89/91.


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## Mervin MTX (Jan 25, 2011)

Back on topic. If it is just a matter of MTX vs VG. Then for grip alone MTX is without question the better of the two. I don't know if you guys night board on the east coast but that would be the best example of the two tech's. MTX gives you a lot more confidence because it'll just grip, stick and slice through the ice. With VG in the worst conditions I have to go slower and have experienced the edges washing out more. 

Yes people complain about the 'stickiness' of MTX but that is just personal preference and sticky = grip in my opinion. It is a lot of hype over nothing because there are many many variations of MTX and the subtle waves are not sticky at all but still offer better grip/traction than VG.

Regarding the quality of construction, there is no question NS has a better topsheet. Mervin boards gets banged up very easily. In 1 day of riding, it'll look like 2 weeks while my NS boards are still mint. I will say however the Horsepower boards or those that have the basalt construction do last much longer than the regular Mervin topsheets.


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## Mysticfalcon (Nov 27, 2007)

Try the Smokin magnetraction. They use a slightly melower magnetraction that I like a lot better then the way that Lib does it. The NS vario works well enough for me. It is not as good as even the mellow Smokin MTX but it is very predictable. I ride a lot of wind blown ice and it pretty much sucks with anything.


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## B.Gilly (Jul 23, 2008)

Out of the 3 companies I rode with Magnetraction I did prefer the smokin over the others. Yes I ride nights the slopes near me are open either till 9 or 10 depending on which one I am at.

Dano- try and see if you can try them out. I know NS is not easy to come by where you are but try and hop on a MTX board if you can. It really comes down to what you prefer.


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## CheeseForSteeze (May 11, 2011)

You might find that the R&C profile gains some grip back over BTX/C2BTX despite the Mervin MTX sidecut having much more outright grip than Variogrip. Driiving it through the nose to turn then really weighting the board like a regular camber stick when traversing across the falline on hardpack, I find I have more than enough grip.

I found MTX to be grippy and not particularly catchy on a Park Pickle BTX, AG C2BTX and T. Rice and T. Rice HP C2BTX. However, I also didn't find the extra grip.

Both of these sidecuts and camber profiles are going to have enough grip where you can make a small adjustment and have identical performance on both sticks.


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## Dano (Sep 16, 2009)

*SBF comes through again*

This is absolutely great, thanks for all the input boys! Even if it did make this decision even harder :laugh:. I rode my buddy's 2011 T.rice for a few runs last year and it was pretty much exactly what I'm looking for, the only issue is that I hear such great stuff about Never Summer that it's really just deciding between the known vs unknown.


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## HoboMaster (May 16, 2010)

Never ridden a Mervin, but I can agree about NS VG working well but not being bullet-proof. I hardly ever ride ice so it's not a problem for me, but the few times it's been sketch-o-ice I was definitely checking my speed and watching my edge.


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## Nolefan2011 (Mar 12, 2011)

Dano, they are two different rides IMO. I also felt the Heritage and SL were more damp than the Rice / Phoenix, and could plow through just about everything. That said, the Rice / Phoenix were IMO more fun to ride, because I thought they were torsionally faster edge to edge, a litte bit looser without being squirely, and IMO, felt they were a little more snappy.

It was about 6 months ago, so it's not as fresh in my mind, but I just remember feeling more of a damp, plank like ride from Never Summer, and more of a loose, responsive ride from the Lib Tech.

So it really depends what you are looking for. Heritage you could charge almost anything, but the T Rice had some more play for me. FWIW.


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## Dano (Sep 16, 2009)

FWIW there's so much more to this decision than just edge hold and control. Durability, dampness, speed, weight, traction, float, and how it handles jumps and natural features are all part of the equation. I know well enough the board doesn't make the rider, the rider makes the board. This will probably be the last board I buy for quite a long time and I'm really looking at all the angles. I've been doing a lot of my own research as opposed to starting a lazy douche bag "which board should I buy?" thread, I think we've sat through enough of those . I've read all the reviews, watched all the YouTube vids, researched and compared the features & tech, and I've ridden what I can. 

To be honest, the reason a board I've never even seen in person is in the final 2 is because of the 3 year warranty, the TLC that clearly goes into these decks, customer service, and the high esteem in which NS is held here. (While trying to cut out the blind uneducated unwavering fan boy love as sometimes witnessed in the Burton, Union, or Evo threads)

That's why this been such a great help, you guys clearly know your stuff. Thanks again


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## Mysticfalcon (Nov 27, 2007)

Well I used to be a burton guy. The Custom was a great do everything stick. Since they layed off a lot of americans including a lot of people I know I have started looking american made. Smokin was my favorite and Ive had several Smokin boards. Then I just tried a SL last year. It basically got rid of my desire to have a quiver of boards since it just plain works. It does deep pow 90% as well as a Smokin Pinner. It rips groomers at speed 95% as well as my Burton supermodel. It jibs like a noodley park stick when I want it too but still pops off lips like crazy. I know staff at Burton and I know staff at Smokin. I dont know anyone at Never summer to give me a deal but they do seem to be all that I want now.


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## ABagofButter (Jun 10, 2011)

I know this is about magnetraction vs. vario, but how is tbt on ice? is it just like any other cambered board on ice or is it sketchier?


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## Flant (Sep 7, 2011)

well said Dano


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## Emur00 (Sep 11, 2011)

I'm a girl so my main debates are over the B-street and the Ns panora. i ride east cost, so its ice and hard pack all the way. From what I've heard, The magne traction REALLY does make the difference, but NS boards are really damp so they make for much smoother rides. I'm going to be buying either the B-street or the pandora, still can't decide which one I want. Many people say the pandora is an over-all more stable ride, but the vario grip doesn't hold as well on east coast turf as the MTX. Not sure If I'm ready to sacrifice that essential grip for the smoother ride. decisions, decisions.


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## slyder (Jan 18, 2010)

So Dano,
What was your decision?
I don't have the experience of most of you. But I chose the Banana for the MTX and don't regret it one minute. I have very similar conditions and I believe the board helped me to progress in our less than perfect man-made snow and very crowded conditions here.
I also ride park and jumps, but again, not to the level of others on here.


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## Qball (Jun 22, 2010)

between magnetraction and vario, magnetraction has worked much better for me. I have about a seasons worth of riding on both a NS SL and a Smokin superpark, and magnetraction has better edge hold even without being tuned, ever. I didn't really like mervin's magnetraction when i tried it but I didn't really get all that much riding on it. I think smokin definitely has it dialed though.


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## AdamBQ (Sep 15, 2009)

Dano, you can buy local in Edmonton.

Go to Skiers Sportshop on 109th St right before turning onto the low level. They have the full NS line up. It's where I bought my 2009/10 Legacy, and where I got my 2010/11 Raptor X. They are pretty good there, I've had good experiences every time I have gone in. So that at least solves the "buy local" problem for you.


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## Emur00 (Sep 11, 2011)

How much more smoothly do NS boards ride vs Lib/Gnu? I hear alot of people love the smoothness the NS boards have because of the dampening. Gnu and lib seem to be pretty dry as far as I've heard.


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## jdang307 (Feb 6, 2011)

Emur00 said:


> How much more smoothly do NS boards ride vs Lib/Gnu? I hear alot of people love the smoothness the NS boards have because of the dampening. Gnu and lib seem to be pretty dry as far as I've heard.


No experience with mervin but an SL paired up with K2 Uprise (harshmellow) was like gliding over cream. It's noticeable.


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## Lstarrasl (Mar 26, 2010)

people that say Magnatraction is sticky or catchy are kooks!


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## lisevolution (Sep 20, 2007)

I ride NY, VT, MA, and PA all of which are hard packed at best icy on average and boilerplate at worst. I own a Legacy and have ridden the dark, skunk and the old 11up all with mtx or btx. Add to that the fact I'm like 270lbs and let's just say I put pressure on my edges. The vario is definitely not as grippy as the vario but I like the vario better. As BGilly said it just transitions edge to edge more naturally. Also if conditions are boilerplate it doesn't matter which one you're riding, you have to point it and barely work your edges anyway. 

As far as the difference in dampness, truthfully my gut tells me you will barely notice the difference anyway. Yes the NS is solid and plows through crud but we don't get enough snow outside of jay to really have to worry about that. The bs snow piles at the end of the day can be charged through on 1984 Burton backhill just fine. 

Both brands make good boards. I went with NS because I wanted the 3 yr warranty and I prefer their take on alt camber


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## Flant (Sep 7, 2011)

cheers @lisevolution. Still tossing up NS 158 Heritage V 159 Premier... I hope either will be great.


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## Dano (Sep 16, 2009)

Here she is boys and girls, the new whip. Thanks for all the input, the dampening in the NeverSummers' sure was tempting but at the end of the day I went with the stick i knew best. 

Cheers!


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## danm (Jan 16, 2010)

Dano said:


> Here she is boys and girls, the new whip. Thanks for all the input, the dampening in the NeverSummers' sure was tempting but at the end of the day I went with the stick i knew best.
> 
> Cheers!
> 
> View attachment 6163


You'll love it... or you won't!!!


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## sidewall (Nov 6, 2009)

Dano great choice man. I'm looking at the T. Rice's myself. Curious how the horsepower rides, specifically dampness.

Oh and I haven't ridden vario but magne is tough to live without on the east coast.


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## Flant (Sep 7, 2011)

just riding vario on a NS Premier F1 through some crud here in Japan and it chews through it quite well or maybe im just excited because i dont get to ski too much these days.


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