# Why are there not more Reverse SideCut Board shapes?



## BurtonAvenger (Aug 14, 2007)

Whitegold has one as well, Mott at Igneous also made one, and I know there's one more from some Euro company too but I can't think of the name.


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## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

BurtonAvenger said:


> Whitegold has one as well, Mott at Igneous also made one, and I know there's one more from some Euro company too but I can't think of the name.


Signal is playin with it too yes? No sale though if I remember right.


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## BurtonAvenger (Aug 14, 2007)

That's actually something they were making for Guch for Volcom but with a Signal topsheet. Basically Guch saw what it was doing for Travis so said I want one.


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## fattrav (Feb 21, 2009)

Well, it did do alot for me...


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## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

BurtonAvenger said:


> That's actually something they were making for Guch for Volcom but with a Signal topsheet. Basically Guch saw what it was doing for Travis so said I want one.


That's right. I knew Guch was involved but couldn't remember the details.


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## Sick-Pow (May 5, 2008)

There are so many ski manufactures with it across their line (Armada comes to mind with 2) and with rocker+camber it seems to take away from the poor hardpack performance.

Next for snowboards is concave bases stuff+RS+RC/Hybrid camber+ strange puck like contact points?


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## BurtonAvenger (Aug 14, 2007)

You talking about that deck Flow had at Dew Tour?


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## Sick-Pow (May 5, 2008)

BurtonAvenger said:


> You talking about that deck Flow had at Dew Tour?


Do share.

I am talking about another design I have seen( cannot remember the small ski manufacture name,but some of the engineers that first worked with Shane McClonkey's skis? I think they left and started their own company). Small pucks, like a bulge, right at the outer edge of where the contact points are. For skis with tons of concave and reverse sidecut and rocker. Like a Bataleon TBT on steroids. Maybe Magnatraction is a better solution, but these looks cool. They had protos at SIA.

They say it is for grip in short bursts, so then when you go into the really deeps stuff, or jump, the rest of the ski performs. They assume ( protos) that with so much concave and rocker and sidecut, you would want this little bit of extra traction for icy entrances, or run outs.

Maybe Magnatraction is a better solution, but these look cool.


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## BurtonAvenger (Aug 14, 2007)

Oh it's a ski fuck those things I don't care what they're doing doesn't effect me. I thought you were talking about the new design Flows working on with impact gel on their already hybrid camber, concaved based deck.


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## skip11 (Jan 28, 2010)

Atomic is coming out with a reverse side cut board at the tip and tail called the Sir Float-alot.


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## Sick-Pow (May 5, 2008)

skip11 said:


> Atomic is coming out with a reverse side cut board at the tip and tail called the Sir Float-alot.


I saw that at SIA, cool graphic. If it was not so brutally cold at the demo, I might have actually ridden it.


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## Sick-Pow (May 5, 2008)

BurtonAvenger said:


> Oh it's a ski fuck those things I don't care what they're doing doesn't effect me. I thought you were talking about the new design Flows working on with impact gel on their already hybrid camber, concaved based deck.


No you are right, but to ignore the tech bleed is putting blinders on, don't you think?


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## BurtonAvenger (Aug 14, 2007)

Not really I honestly don't give a fuck about skiing. They have different physics and geometry plus reverse sidecut is such a fine niche there's probably less than 500 of them in the world. I care more about making good riding cheap decks then I do adding another contact point, shoving more carbon fiber dildo rods in a deck, or using fossilized anodized pixie shit on a base.


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## Sick-Pow (May 5, 2008)

BurtonAvenger said:


> Not really I honestly don't give a fuck about skiing. They have different physics and geometry plus reverse sidecut is such a fine niche there's probably less than 500 of them in the world. I care more about making good riding cheap decks then I do adding another contact point, shoving more carbon fiber *dildo *rods in a deck, or using fossilized anodized pixie shit on a base.


I have the opposite design desire (more dildos). I want custom design, in a well built fairly long lasting board. Burton has almost met that desire for the last few years.

Personally, I only ride pow and early season cruising days, so I have my camber and then the alternate for the really "big" resort pow days. I am for sure a more narrow market. But "big mountain" design is changing fast, and has changed fast in skiing, helping snowboarding with manufacturing evolution.

Never Summer is gear up'd for making skis too BTW (they make Icelandic). 

Elan is a ski company who produces snowboards too.


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## BurtonAvenger (Aug 14, 2007)

I know plenty of factories that make skis and snowboards. Pull out the mold, change the cartridge, and poof there you go. 

I have a lot of pro skier friends and they all say the same thing Reverse sidecut skis are not fun on a resort they save them for Vail Pass. Niche market right there.


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## Sick-Pow (May 5, 2008)

They did say splitboards were a niche market. Now almost 1/3 of makers have them. 

I would like a more affordable choice in RC/RS to the banana hammock that is not made by Atomic.


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## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

Haha splitboards. We'll get a few gung-ho J.Jones wannabes that kill or seriously injure themselves and the splitboards will be back to the purists who actually have the knowledge and respect to use them.

give it 2 maybe 3 years and the big companies wont make them anymore, cause the demand is gonna die.


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## Sick-Pow (May 5, 2008)

Nivek said:


> Haha splitboards. We'll get a few gung-ho J.Jones wannabes that kill or seriously injure themselves and the splitboards will be back to the purists who actually have the knowledge and respect to use them.
> 
> give it 2 maybe 3 years and the big companies wont make them anymore, cause the demand is gonna die.


Get 'em cheap now huh?

Backcountry touring is a huge growth market for both snowboard and ski. Black Diamond is just getting bigger and more invested. 

For my niche market, I see more people wanting a singular experience like pow (no park, no resorts), and will do almost anything to perpetuate that lifestyle. i cannot see that trend declining with any rise in popularity. 

You have seen the numbers over on splitboards.com, right? It is not small.


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## BurtonAvenger (Aug 14, 2007)

Ask any company that's made splitboards long haul they'll tell you it has its ups and downs. Nivek nailed it a couple bad deaths and stupid people out there and shit will mellow back out.


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## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

not too mention people don't realize to do it right, it takes like $3k startup.


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## Sick-Pow (May 5, 2008)

BurtonAvenger said:


> Ask any company that's made splitboards long haul they'll tell you it has its ups and downs. Nivek nailed it a couple bad deaths and stupid people out there and shit will mellow back out.


 I think nothing is more versatile as a recreation than a great form of transport (split with skins) and the best way down in pow or corn, on a board. Snowshoes have their place, but suck to carry down and can be slow and laborious.

East Vail is a madhouse now on the weekends, either all those people are very lucky, or many to most are getting educated. Any path you choose you are mitigating risk, so even doubling, say the Colorado avy deaths, is still not that many.

I saw a Banana Hammock split for sale over on splitboards, too fucking cool. Inside edges too. Reverse sidcut is tempting for my pow exclusive days.


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## Sick-Pow (May 5, 2008)

Nivek said:


> not too mention people don't realize to do it right, it takes like $3k startup.


no way, that is @2K over.

me
used Venture splitboard and bindings and crampons 400

Pieps DSP, ebay, @75.00 (brand new summertime snag)

Skins, poles, shovel, probe, pack, ice axe, crampons, first aid, other safty stuff @350-450 tops. Already had most stuff.

Avy 1+2 300

same boots, outerwear.


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## killclimbz (Aug 10, 2007)

An avy 1&2 for $300 available to the mass public? Certainly not aiare...


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## Sick-Pow (May 5, 2008)

killclimbz said:


> An avy 1&2 for $300 available to the mass public? Certainly not aiare...


I should have said around 300, as I certainly do not remember it might have been each. One was here in Colorado and 2 was in AK, both AIARE courses.

Figuring AVY 1 into the cost is fine, but we are still a long way from 3k.


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## BurtonAvenger (Aug 14, 2007)

Not really if you do everything right and buy new.


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## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

BurtonAvenger said:


> Not really if you do everything right and buy new.


This and even if you do have the right knowledge to safely buy used, that's the exception. Most people don't, so $3k it is.


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## walove (May 1, 2009)

Sick-Pow said:


> There are so many ski manufactures with it across their line (Armada comes to mind with 2) and with rocker+camber it seems to take away from the poor hardpack performance.
> 
> Next for snowboards is concave bases stuff+RS+RC/Hybrid camber+ strange puck like contact points?



your thinking of DPS skis and their cleat tech linky, looks kooky but DPS makes nice shit. Them and praxis really dialed in the five point ski design. Not fully reverse sidecut. They have different amounts of sidecut underfoot, with reverse and rockered tips and tails. Very similar to the atomic sirfloats. These design work in more then just new snow, they excel in all soft/variable snow conditions. Where i ride at Bridger Bowl, when you are on top of the ridge and around others who don't mind hiking a little for better runs this is the design you see.

BA says he doesn't care about ski designs, and i agree there are many differences, when you break it down to a physics level they are really the same. Your weight and pressure are applied to different areas of the board or ski, but both have to be transferred to the snow. These new designs are not going to be your go to park deck or are great at railing turns on groomers but that is not the point. As the average age of a snowboarder gets older and less are focused on freestyle there will be a shift in the style of boards being made. New designs like this do not fit into the big factory style of production. On the ski side small companies with low production numbers have developed these designs, which are then adopted by they larger companies, dps lotus = atomic bentchetler, salomon S7... Snowboards have been the same old shape for years and it is due to change. 

As for splitboards, yes it will always be a niche but $3k to "do it right" is a joke. 
old board -- free
volie diy kit $150
skins $100
old binders free
collapsible poles $10 home made from old ski poles
beacon probe shovel $400 get some good stuff
advanced avy course from Gallatin Vally avy center and MSU $50 + $35 for the beginner class. 

$800 total i've put 30 days or so on mine in the last two years with zero issues.

As i get older i find myself looking for jumps less, and looking for good snow and good turns more. Im guessing that im not the only one. Looking for less hype more substance and more new designs.


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## Sick-Pow (May 5, 2008)

walove said:


> your thinking of DPS skis and their cleat tech linky, looks kooky but DPS makes nice shit. Them and praxis really dialed in the five point ski design. Not fully reverse sidecut. They have different amounts of sidecut underfoot, with reverse and rockered tips and tails. Very similar to the atomic sirfloats. These design work in more then just new snow, they excel in all soft/variable snow conditions. Where i ride at Bridger Bowl, when you are on top of the ridge and around others who don't mind hiking a little for better runs this is the design you see.
> 
> BA says he doesn't care about ski designs, and i agree there are many differences, when you break it down to a physics level they are really the same. Your weight and pressure are applied to different areas of the board or ski, but both have to be transferred to the snow. These new designs are not going to be your go to park deck or are great at railing turns on groomers but that is not the point. As the average age of a snowboarder gets older and less are focused on freestyle there will be a shift in the style of boards being made. New designs like this do not fit into the big factory style of production. On the ski side small companies with low production numbers have developed these designs, which are then adopted by they larger companies, dps lotus = atomic bentchetler, salomon S7... Snowboards have been the same old shape for years and it is due to change.
> 
> ...


the self styled "know it alls" on this board are all hot air. 

Thanks, and your last sentence sums up many peoples desires quite nicely.


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## Sick-Pow (May 5, 2008)

dudes are too lazy to even click when they come here. at least I will post some pics for the drool factor.


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## BurtonAvenger (Aug 14, 2007)

I've probably forgotten more about snowboard design than you know.


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## ETM (Aug 11, 2009)

Nivek said:


> Haha splitboards. We'll get a few gung-ho J.Jones wannabes that kill or seriously injure themselves and the splitboards will be back to the purists who actually have the knowledge and respect to use them.
> 
> give it 2 maybe 3 years and the big companies wont make them anymore, cause the demand is gonna die.


LOL nice comment


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## killclimbz (Aug 10, 2007)

ETM gets the necrophiliac award of the day...


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## Deacon (Mar 2, 2013)

killclimbz said:


> ETM gets the necrophiliac award of the day...


I always forget to check the dates, but now I know why the link didn't work. So who was right...?
:laugh:


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## walove (May 1, 2009)

ETM said:


> LOL nice comment


Splitboarding is the only segment of snowboarding that is growing. Lot more companies are make unique pow boards too, many feature reverse side cut in the nose. 
Things have changed in the last two years. 

BA should still be happy, for every split or pow board made, there are ten cheap park decks


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## BurtonAvenger (Aug 14, 2007)

Oh I am happy. Also more powder freestyle boards being made. Snowboarding>Skiing any day of the week.


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## t-bizzy (Sep 13, 2009)

So has anybody ridden any of these reverse sidecut boards? I'm looking for some kind of comparisons to regular sidecut boards.


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## ETM (Aug 11, 2009)

:laugh:


killclimbz said:


> ETM gets the necrophiliac award of the day...


I googled reverse sidecut and this thread came up. I thought it would be funny to pop up a few years after niveks comment to say splitboarding didnt fade out.


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## ETM (Aug 11, 2009)

t-bizzy said:


> So has anybody ridden any of these reverse sidecut boards? I'm looking for some kind of comparisons to regular sidecut boards.


Its only something you would ride if you went cat or sled boarding. No good for hard pack


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## Deacon (Mar 2, 2013)

t-bizzy said:


> So has anybody ridden any of these reverse sidecut boards? I'm looking for some kind of comparisons to regular sidecut boards.


These are awesome in pow...








AND it has reverse sidecut!


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## Steezus Christ (Jul 29, 2013)

killclimbz said:


> ETM gets the necrophiliac award of the day...


haha was reading through this thread and thought something didnt seem quite right then went back and realised its about 2 years old..

amazing how much has changed. the fact that we r now seeing more true twin splits just goes to show. who knows where splitboard/snowboard shapes will be in another 2 years.


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## t-bizzy (Sep 13, 2009)

ETM said:


> Its only something you would ride if you went cat or sled boarding. No good for hard pack


Thanks, I realize that. I'm still looking for feedback.


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## ETM (Aug 11, 2009)

You wont get much Im afraid. A friend of mine has a banana hamock but im sure it hasnt been ridden out here in oz lol. 
When I move to japan I will build one and let you know :laugh:


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