# Deep carving, Kijima method



## Aracan

I do have a question: You are a big guy. What advantages does a tiny board such as yours offer? My kid weighs less than 45 kg and her board has about the same effective edge.


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## wrathfuldeity

Woah Thanks! 
? So question, focusing on your leading shoulder as the top of the joy stick in the triangle, does it move in the usual 3 axis, fore/aft, toe/heelside and up/down? Or does is the movement more of two axis of toe/heelside and fore/aft...and for the up/down axis, is that the leaning over? Just trying to visualize or am I completely off base?


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## Manicmouse

TL;DR and where's the video? :wink:


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## BoardieK

"Eurocarving" is a bit of a misnomer.
I'm in the Alps, I've been out about 30 of the last 45 days and haven't seen a single boardrider come anywhere close to laying down a "Eurocarve".
Personally I think the Japanese style of carving looks great, 45 degree board angulation in a carve is more than enough and I think is actually more functional than a higher angle with your body dragging in the snow. I'm not taking anything away from the skill required to eurocarve and fully understand why people might aspire to it but it's not for me.


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## Rip154

Oh there def needs to be a video, preferably in a basement.


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## snoway

Rip154 said:


> Oh there def needs to be a video, preferably in a basement.


:laughat2:


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## wrathfuldeity

So is this the kind of carving...


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## F1EA

Kijima said:


> So the main difference between Ryans method and my method is that Ryan finishes his heel turn fully squatted, flips to the toe edge and extends out his body where as I finish my heel turn by straightening my legs completely and popping up, by popping up I harness the stored energy in the board and get a little bit of air as I shift to the toe edge.


Yep, I do this as well. On both toeside and heelside.
That combined with shoulder and hip "pro-rotation" (especially heelside) makes a world of difference in keeping your edge locked, and adds a ton of pop to heelside turn exit.


"pro-rotation": I'm not sure what to call it.... it's the opposite of counter-rotation.


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## DaveMcI

Whoa is right, I keep my beer in the front triangle. So it doesn't spill


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## 161210

I used to try Ryan's method but with my recent knee injury I've had to go with both feet angled forward and a wider stance (female...I think we have wider stances for our height). What I've found is I can get alot lower and have a ton more control with forward angles. I recently added Now bindings to that mix and the control is insane and I love it!

With forward angles your shoulders are forward and for me carves just flow and feel more "normal". I guess with a heavy vert skating background I should have at least tried a zero angle on the back foot to start with as you don't skate in pools with a duck stance  (at least if anyone does that is not very common)....so I can relate to what you are trying to verbalize.

The only thing I would disagree with is chatter...if I get any then I get my weight over the center of my board (vertical center line...not talking about centered between bindings) more and bend my knees a tad more...that clears up chatter immediately for me. Chatter...for me...means I am not over my board enough and I need to get more aggressive to clear it up.


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## F1EA

wrathfuldeity said:


> So is this the kind of carving...
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nnm96vOV8cQ


Beauty.

(I dont particularly like the hand dragging.... but everything they're doing is beauty).


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## Kijima

Aracan said:


> I do have a question: You are a big guy. What advantages does a tiny board such as yours offer? My kid weighs less than 45 kg and her board has about the same effective edge.


Hey Aracan. I build my own boards so I am only limited by my imagination and my material sizes. I used to ride and love boards as long as 180cm but long boards start to get heavy, long super wide boards get phenomenally heavy so I started going shorter purely to manage board weight. I found that all I need for carving is board width, my 1m of effective edge has far more edge hold than my body can deal with at the moment so I have no reason to go longer.


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## Kijima

wrathfuldeity said:


> Woah Thanks!
> ? So question, focusing on your leading shoulder as the top of the joy stick in the triangle, does it move in the usual 3 axis, fore/aft, toe/heelside and up/down? Or does is the movement more of two axis of toe/heelside and fore/aft...and for the up/down axis, is that the leaning over? Just trying to visualize or am I completely off base?


Great Question Wraith.
I only think of fore-aft which is basically knowing my chatter points, and heel-toe. Bending my knees happens automatically as a by product of the other two shoulder actions. I dont focus on anything below my arm pits.


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## Kijima

Manicmouse said:


> TL;DR and where's the video? :wink:


There is one video of me on fb doing one of my first heel side lay down turns but I dont know how to get it on here just yet.
You might be able to click this link to view it. Its not my video, the ski resort filmed it at posted it.
Also this video was filmed when I was riding a more narrow 162 pow board but I set my bindings to max toe overhang to gain heel clearance as I was learning how to do them.

https://ja-jp.facebook.com/121034864712566/videos/2143891982363786/


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## F1EA

Viper21 said:


> I used to try Ryan's method but with my recent knee injury I've had to go with both feet angled forward and a wider stance (female...I think we have wider stances for our height). What I've found is I can get alot lower and have a ton more control with forward angles. I recently added Now bindings to that mix and the control is insane and I love it!
> 
> With forward angles your shoulders are forward and for me carves just flow and feel more "normal". I guess with a heavy vert skating background I should have at least tried a zero angle on the back foot to start with as you don't skate in pools with a duck stance  (at least if anyone does that is not very common)....so I can relate to what you are trying to verbalize.
> 
> The only thing I would disagree with is chatter...if I get any then I get my weight over the center of my board (vertical center line...not talking about centered between bindings) more and bend my knees a tad more...that clears up chatter immediately for me. Chatter...for me...means I am not over my board enough and I need to get more aggressive to clear it up.


Ah yes. ++ for me as well. This is THE difference.

Also Now Drive are exceptional. Whenever I go to the board mounted with Drives it's a whoa! kind of experience.


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## Kijima

wrathfuldeity said:


> So is this the kind of carving...
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nnm96vOV8cQ


Exactly. And you can see the guy having the same 180 out problems that Im having now when he lays flat on his back.:laugh2:


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## Kijima

Viper21 said:


> I used to try Ryan's method but with my recent knee injury I've had to go with both feet angled forward and a wider stance (female...I think we have wider stances for our height). What I've found is I can get alot lower and have a ton more control with forward angles. I recently added Now bindings to that mix and the control is insane and I love it!
> 
> With forward angles your shoulders are forward and for me carves just flow and feel more "normal". I guess with a heavy vert skating background I should have at least tried a zero angle on the back foot to start with as you don't skate in pools with a duck stance  (at least if anyone does that is not very common)....so I can relate to what you are trying to verbalize.
> 
> The only thing I would disagree with is chatter...if I get any then I get my weight over the center of my board (vertical center line...not talking about centered between bindings) more and bend my knees a tad more...that clears up chatter immediately for me. Chatter...for me...means I am not over my board enough and I need to get more aggressive to clear it up.


wider stance definitely helps you squat lower. My stance width is 62cm and my binding angles changed from 15-15 to 21-9 as I started exploring the possible body positions I can get to with my feet at different angles. 
I also have a really bad back knee, multiple surgeries and now Im rocking a LARS acl ligament. I snowboard fine, but cant walk to the car lol.


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## Myoko

I reckon if I tried to get down any lower in order to put both hands on the snow, sooner or later one arm would be left behind me and I would hyperextend my arm/shoulder. Think I will leave that one to you people, much respect to people who do it though.
I've personally never seen anyone lay down a carve like that in all the years I have been riding, certainly not in Japan anyway.


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## Kijima

Myoko said:


> I reckon if I tried to get down any lower in order to put both hands on the snow, sooner or later one arm would be left behind me and I would hyperextend my arm/shoulder. Think I will leave that one to you people, much respect to people who do it though.
> I've personally never seen anyone lay down a carve like that in all the years I have been riding, certainly not in Japan anyway.


I was dropping them all over suginohara on saturday :grin:


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## Kijima

Viper21 said:


> . Chatter...for me...means I am not over my board enough and I need to get more aggressive to clear it up.


I totally agree, if your way works keep doing it. Mine works really well for me. Individuals will work out there own ways of fixing the problems, it is the concepts we must understand clearly so when we identify a problem it gets fixed immediately.


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## Myoko

Lol Love it!. Best mountain in the area for carving


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## Kijima

Viper21 said:


> The only thing I would disagree with is chatter...if I get any then I get my weight over the center of my board (vertical center line...not talking about centered between bindings).


This actually sounds like you are reducing the joy stick effect to control chatter which means becoming less aggressive in your turn. My method attacks the chatter and the turn becomes more aggressive.
Not fighting, try it out :grin:


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## deagol

I'm not a fan of the double hand dragging thing, but YMMV. Looks awkward and a bit contrived to me... especially when hunching body over to do it

Laid-out body with a single hand drag is more to my liking.

:dunno:


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## Kijima

deagol said:


> I'm not a fan of the double hand dragging thing, but YMMV. Looks awkward and a bit contrived to me... especially when hunching body over to do it
> 
> Laid-out body with a single hand drag is more to my liking.
> 
> :dunno:


Post up your pics 
And yes a hunching body is a big no-no. This is what happens when people try to lay it down without first learning dynamic body movements. 
People want to pick the fruit, but not tend to the garden lol.


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## deagol

Kijima said:


> post your pics


I'll see if I have some. I'm not generally riding with someone taking pics of me. But aside from myself, I am talking about the style (both styles) in general.


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## MrDavey2Shoes

I have a long torso and stupid little arms. The proportions just aren’t there for me to get my hands in the snow heel side lol.


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## Kijima

MrDavey2Shoes said:


> I have a long torso and stupid little arms. The proportions just aren’t there for me to get my hands in the snow heel side lol.


Nice excuse but unfortunately I am not accepting it :grin:
You can do it easy if you rotate and squat


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## 161210

Kijima said:


> This actually sounds like you are reducing the joy stick effect to control chatter which means becoming less aggressive in your turn. My method attacks the chatter and the turn becomes more aggressive.
> Not fighting, try it out :grin:


Nope, not less aggressive and I am talking about occasional chatter on steeper slopes....maybe I should have stated that...I get you are not fighting  I think it can be hard to describe how one rides sometimes.

I think with my back knee being as painful as it is right now I will just continue riding the way I am until I am healed (have an MRI scheduled for this week).

Right now its incredibly painful to drive and painful to walk but I can ride as long as I don't bend my back knee more than 90 degrees. Snowboarding, for the most part, is not painful...its the before and after. I have my knee brace and crutch in the subaru next to the board when I drive up, lol.


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## Kijima

Viper21 said:


> Nope, not less aggressive and I am talking about occasional chatter on steeper slopes....maybe I should have stated that...I get you are not fighting  I think it can be hard to describe how one rides sometimes.
> 
> I think with my back knee being as painful as it is right now I will just continue riding the way I am until I am healed (have an MRI scheduled for this week).
> 
> Right now its incredibly painful to drive and painful to walk but I can ride as long as I don't bend my back knee more than 90 degrees. Snowboarding, for the most part, is not painful...its the before and after. I have my knee brace and crutch in the subaru next to the board when I drive up, lol.


I am just learning that my quads are short in my bad back knee which equates to my knee feeling like it wants to explode if I squat too much. 
Stretching them out by sitting japanese tatami style is helping a lot.


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## 161210

Kijima said:


> I am just learning that my quads are short in my bad back knee which equates to my knee feeling like it wants to explode if I squat too much.
> Stretching them out by sitting japanese tatami style is helping a lot.


I shall have to check that out...I suspect I don't/haven't stretched near enough before and after riding and now I am paying for that. I know better too...sigh.
Ya know also earlier this season I was riding bindings that were probably too soft for the board in question...I wonder if that did me in as well. I am staying on the Now bindings as I need every advantage to just ride. I will stay on them after as well because they are pretty amazing.


Really appreciate you posting your carving methods - pretty awesome to hear more ways to carve (and learn more)! Thank you for posting your way.


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## wrathfuldeity

Abit late...started this reply in the middle of sleeping today....



F1EA said:


> Beauty.
> 
> (I dont particularly like the hand dragging.... but everything they're doing is beauty).


These folks don't hand drag as much






And these folks only briefly touch the snow.






Watching these vids, it seems that in the first vid, stances are more forward and the use of their hands are reminiscent of Craig Kelly. Verses the second vid it looks abit duck and more RK style. Which brings me to another question about stance angles of ++ or +/_...to be a factor of technique and style. Idk but OP's initial post seems to be perhaps more geared to forward ++ angles.


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## Kijima

Viper21 said:


> Ya know also earlier this season I was riding bindings that were probably too soft for the board in question..
> 
> 
> Really appreciate you posting your carving methods - pretty awesome to hear more ways to carve (and learn more)! Thank you for posting your way.


When I started learning this I was flexing my bindings like crazy, I broke the highback clean off my Katana mid turn, my burton cartels were folding the reflex disc. Crazy shit was happening as I was trying to bully my snowboard into doing what I wanted it to do but now I only focus on body movements my snowboard kind of just follows along politely. 
I find myself standing square off my board all the time, firmly planted, none of that heavy levering type pressure I was applying to my bindings before. 

And thanks for the kind words.:wink:


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## Kijima

wrathfuldeity said:


> Which brings me to another question about stance angles of ++ or +/_...to be a factor of technique and style. Idk but OP's initial post seems to be perhaps more geared to forward ++ angles.


My stance changed from 15/15 duck to 21/9 duck. That really helps with heel side rotation. When I was 15/15 my body was not happy at all with the required movements but my back knee is all kinds of messed up. 

A duck back foot definitely hurts your heel side carving performance. Finding that balance I assume is very personal. Ryan does everything 15/15 duck, he is the boss lol.


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## Kijima

Another thing that is of interest to me atm is experimenting with setting up my stance forward of the sidecut radius. Reverse setback if you will. 
There's some stuff on offer there for those who like to experiment. :nerd:


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## 161210

wrathfuldeity said:


> Abit late...started this reply in the middle of sleeping today....
> 
> 
> Watching these vids, it seems that in the first vid, stances are more forward and the use of their hands are reminiscent of Craig Kelly. Verses the second vid it looks abit duck and more RK style. Which brings me to another question about stance angles of ++ or +/_...to be a factor of technique and style. Idk but OP's initial post seems to be perhaps more geared to forward ++ angles.



Interesting...in that second video the stances look super wide...


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## Kijima

Viper21 said:


> Interesting...in that second video the stances look super wide...


It helps a lot. Look at Ryans stance width in comparison to his leg length.


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## Kijima




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## deagol

F1EA said:


> Beauty.
> 
> (I dont particularly like the hand dragging.... but everything they're doing is beauty).


Agree, that video is another example of how there are several different ways of riding and, in this case, carving. Some of those riders were going into their turns super squatted, but they are holding a solid edge and it's all good. They have very fluid styles and its great to watch. Other styles have the rider extended, particularly toeside. And it's possible to have a preference without knocking someone else's style. My personal preference is to do what is natural and doesn't require over-twisting of the body in order to get both hands down. 

The old Craig Kelley style of carving is so different from the Ryan Knapton style, which are both different from these styles.
That video title Singularity 2018 above is a good example: I didn't see anyone ride the same way as the first video with the rotation to drag both hands. Differnt style, more extended, single hand dragging, looks very natural. Both are fun to watch.


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## Kijima

You can see the minor overhang I still have at 30.5cm waist width in US10 burton boots.


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## F1EA

wrathfuldeity said:


> Abit late...started this reply in the middle of sleeping today....
> 
> 
> These folks don't hand drag as much
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPY_YTlho6U
> 
> And these folks only briefly touch the snow.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=taGRXFEda7g
> 
> Watching these vids, it seems that in the first vid, stances are more forward and the use of their hands are reminiscent of Craig Kelly. Verses the second vid it looks abit duck and more RK style. Which brings me to another question about stance angles of ++ or +/_...to be a factor of technique and style. Idk but OP's initial post seems to be perhaps more geared to forward ++ angles.


Yep that looks nicer to me. Not that either is bad or worse, just that i find it cleaner and more appealing when they'renot constantly hand or nipple dragging.

Although, 2nd video is actually more fwd stanced; they're even riding proper carving narrow waist boards...


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## Kijima

deagol said:


> Agree, that video is another example of how there are several different ways of riding and, in this case, carving. Some of those riders were going into their turns super squatted, but they are holding a solid edge and it's all good. They have very fluid styles and its great to watch. Other styles have the rider extended, particularly toeside. And it's possible to have a preference without knocking someone else's style. My personal preference is to do what is natural and doesn't require over-twisting of the body in order to get both hands down.
> 
> The old Craig Kelley style of carving is so different from the Ryan Knapton style, which are both different from these styles.
> That video title Singularity 2018 above is a good example: I didn't see anyone ride the same way as the first video with the rotation to drag both hands. Differnt style, more extended, single hand dragging, looks very natural. Both are fun to watch.


I watch Ryans videos almost exclusively, my 4 year old knows him by name lol. I went into this with elbow pads and arm sleeves at the ready just like him, but I ended up needing gloves and butt pads. 
I think as we learn we do it best in our natural style be it good or bad lol. Once we master that we can start to work toward a particular style if we want but I think its much better to be able to do both. Thats what my future surely holds. 

I like that hektik backwards swally riding dude that lays on his back and vapes cbd oil at tge same time lol. Its all fun, not footy teams boys!


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## Kijima

A pre lay up pic of that board


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## Kijima

F1EA said:


> Yep that looks nicer to me. Not that either is bad or worse, just that i find it cleaner and more appealing when they'renot constantly hand or nipple dragging.
> 
> Although, 2nd video is actually more fwd stanced; they're even riding proper carving narrow waist boards...


Its amusing how Japanese like the opposite to Americans most of the time.


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## deagol

Kijima said:


> I watch Ryans videos almost exclusively, my 4 year old knows him by name lol. I went into this with elbow pads and arm sleeves at the ready just like him, but I ended up needing gloves and butt pads.
> I think as we learn we do it best in our natural style be it good or bad lol. Once we master that we can start to work toward a particular style if we want but I think its much better to be able to do both. Thats what my future surely holds.
> 
> I like that hektik backwards swally riding dude that lays on his back and vapes cbd oil at tge same time lol. Its all fun, not footy teams boys!


I had a short day riding with Ryan last year, but the snow was not conducive to carving and I never got to see him show his stuff. Super nice guy, though. He's got a lot of people who know who he is so hard to have a regular conversation like you might with someone you meet on the chairlift. He was experimenting with shin straps duck taped to his bindings. 

I've seen the vaping dude you mention (only in vids) too !



Kijima said:


> Its amusing how Japanese like the opposite to Americans most of the time.


I think he's Canadian.


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## Snow Hound

deagol said:


> ...
> I think he's Canadian.


Whoa there and this thread was going so nicely. Way to start an international incident.


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## snowman55

Snow Hound said:


> Whoa there and this thread was going so nicely. Way to start an international incident.


If they are talking about Tyler Chorlton, he's British. Not Canadian.


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## F1EA

Kijima said:


> Its amusing how Japanese like the opposite to Americans most of the time.


Nah, same guys here:





Zero hand drags. Still Japanese 



Snow Hound said:


> Whoa there and this thread was going so nicely. Way to start an international incident.


lol lol lol lol

Well, I eat sushi at least 3x a week and my son loves seaweed for snack...... I think i'm turning... i really think so.


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## Manicmouse

Kijima said:


> There is one video of me on fb doing one of my first heel side lay down turns but I dont know how to get it on here just yet.
> You might be able to click this link to view it. Its not my video, the ski resort filmed it at posted it.
> Also this video was filmed when I was riding a more narrow 162 pow board but I set my bindings to max toe overhang to gain heel clearance as I was learning how to do them.
> 
> https://ja-jp.facebook.com/121034864712566/videos/2143891982363786/


Thanks for sharing! If a picture is worth a thousands words, then a video is worth what?

I was like yeah I do that, I do that, then oh no my body can't do that  Not exactly flexible here!


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## Kijima

Manicmouse said:


> Thanks for sharing! If a picture is worth a thousands words, then a video is worth what?


Ill write you up an invoice haha


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## Rip154

The shorter board with large sidecut thing sounds interesting, as long as the snow is right. Alot of the heelside turns look ugly when going so low and tight on regular boards, they just chatter up and skid out.


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## MrDavey2Shoes

Kijima said:


> Nice excuse but unfortunately I am not accepting it :grin:
> You can do it easy if you rotate and squat


I woke up this morning, tried to stretch and sat my ass on the ground. I could not reach my trail arm across my chest to touch the ground. I have Trex arms 

I definitely get low enough on my turns but I just keep my trail arm off the snow lol.

Another thing my little arms cant do is reach my front edge while doing a heelside turn. It just doesn't work :crying:

...but I'm ok with it...

These problems pale in comparison to my issues in cycling... long torso and stubby limbs are a nightmare when it comes to proper bike fit. Wound up having a custom frame built


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## Fielding

The two hand drag looks wack. Bending forward at the waist looks wack. These fall into the category of "trying too hard." The bend you want is more like a side bend, where you move your uphill shoulder toward toward your knees at the beginning of the turn. While you're doing this you're loading your weight onto the nose of the board. At the same time you're decambering and tipping the board up on its edge. This combination of movements allows you to make the turn without losing your speed. Once you're traveling across the fall line aand holding sufficient speed you can stretch out if the mood strikes you. Or you can light a cigarette, work on your rubix cube, check your phone, adjust your junk, etc. 

The key to the whole thing is staying in the cockpit. This means staying up front on the board. One way to make sure you're doing this is to use your downhill hand to reach for the downhill edge of your board well into the turn. Try to touch it but then don't touch it. This mental trick should also cause you to tip up the board onto its edge more than you were probably doing. Tipping it up is often called angulation. There is no carving without angulation. There is no carving when your weight is heavy on your back foot.


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## Scalpelman

Kijima said:


> Another thing that is of interest to me atm is experimenting with setting up my stance forward of the sidecut radius. Reverse setback if you will.
> 
> There's some stuff on offer there for those who like to experiment. :nerd:




Now that sounds interesting. May help with heelside deep carving. 

Nice string of videos on this thread. Loving it. 

Also, @Kijima I think you need a separate board manufacturing thread.....


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## Fielding

Kijima said:


> Another thing that is of interest to me atm is experimenting with setting up my stance forward of the sidecut radius. Reverse setback if you will.
> There's some stuff on offer there for those who like to experiment. :nerd:


Interesting idea but negative setback seems counter to the prevailing carving wisdom and my own intuition. All of the dedicated carver bros I know embrace boards with setback, stiff noses, and ample camber. Maybe if you're riding a board with a soft nose or insufficient camber you might be able to carve it better if you move to negative setback. But I believe there are better ways to get to the carve. With that said, I've always learned something from messing with board setup. New setups make me really pay attention to inputs and feedback.

For me, my carving improved markedly as I did the following:

1. moved to a modest + + stance
2. learned to move my weight over and around the board...in order to bend the board and then carefully control its release
3. learned to stay in the cockpit
4. really learned to bend my knees and soak up chatter while maintaining a quiet upper body
5. embraced stiff, pure camber boards of a longer length than what I started with
6. took lessons after already having ridden like 14 years (lessons were not AASI lessons because that style sucks ass)
7. bought the stiffest boots I could find in the smallest size I could fit into...and bought custom insoles
8. moved to a more + + stance
9. became obsessed and watched a thousand youtube videos and participated in forums dedicated to turning snowboards
10. ditched most of the production boards I started with in favor of more specialized boards
11. got into board tuning including edge bevels and base prep
12. started wearing all neon and smoking cigarettes using one of those fancy extenders like HS Thompson
13. got stronger and stronger legs and core

My current softboot quiver:

Rad Air Tanker 172
Oxess BX 159/10
Swoard Dual 168
SG Soul 159 XT
Dupraz D1 6+ (178cm)


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## wrathfuldeity

Fielding said:


> My current softboot quiver:
> 
> Rad Air Tanker 172
> Oxess BX 159/10
> Swoard Dual 168
> SG Soul 159 XT
> Dupraz D1 6+ (178cm)


Do hardboots?


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## Fielding

wrathfuldeity said:


> Do hardboots?


Yes. For the hardboots I currently have a Coiler VSR AM titanal 167...Prior 4WD 168...MADD 170. I ride those with F2 Titaniums. Plus I ride the Swoard Dual, Tanker, and Dupraz with softer F2 Carves. I use UPZ RC10 boots w DGSS spring mod. 

You got some hardboots?


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## wrathfuldeity

^ Atomic Backland non-carbon boots to use with Phantom, Amplid creamer 163 split. But also picked up 2 old alpine race boards from TT and will use a set of race plates on one and spark dyno dh on the other. First season and really loving the backlands, fitting better than my 32 focus boas and significantly better performance riding down.


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## Crusty

Cool. Thanks for the insight into what you're doing. Definitely food for thought, and stuff to try.

What you say resonates. Last year or so I've found my front shoulder to be my focus. I can't quantify my body movements nearly as well as you can, but I find when I'm in balance just moving the shoulder, just a few inches, can control the whole carve. Granted, the rest of the body knows what to do, but the shoulder is all that I need to initiate.



Kijima said:


> I snowboard fine, but cant walk to the car lol.


Glad I'm not alone there as well, lol.


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## LALUNE

Is there a link of op eurocarving video in this post or I just missed it?


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## Kijima

Rip154 said:


> The shorter board with large sidecut thing sounds interesting, as long as the snow is right. Alot of the heelside turns look ugly when going so low and tight on regular boards, they just chatter up and skid out.


The main difference is that the board need not flex so much. Thats why I can draw great big perfect C shapes even when I lay it down, on a more regular board I would be biting in hard at the start of the turn simply due to the mechanics of tilting a long edge, short radius board. The short edge, long radius board will produce the large turn shape we want without so much crazy stuff going on all over the place. Simplification...


----------



## Kijima

MrDavey2Shoes said:


> I woke up this morning, tried to stretch and sat my ass on the ground. I could not reach my trail arm across my chest to touch the ground. I have Trex arms
> 
> I definitely get low enough on my turns but I just keep my trail arm off the snow lol.
> 
> Another thing my little arms cant do is reach my front edge while doing a heelside turn. It just doesn't work :crying:
> 
> ...but I'm ok with it...
> 
> These problems pale in comparison to my issues in cycling... long torso and stubby limbs are a nightmare when it comes to proper bike fit. Wound up having a custom frame built


Can we call you T-rex?:grin:


----------



## Kijima

Fielding said:


> Interesting idea but negative setback seems counter to the prevailing carving wisdom and my own intuition. All of the dedicated carver bros I know embrace boards with setback, stiff noses, and ample camber.


My rationale for being in front of the radius is that I find shifting weight back is easy, shifting weight forward is harder for me, perhaps 60% of my energy is going into getting forward, 40% into getting back. (Gravity?)

So I as move my stance forward in relation to the sidecut radius I effectively share the work load more evenly. Throughout a turn my body weight will be in exactly the same place as before, only the amount of work I had to do to get there has changed, now it will be more effort to get back, less effort to get forward than it was before. We are closer to a 50-50 energy split which is my aim.


----------



## Kijima

Crusty said:


> Cool. Thanks for the insight into what you're doing. Definitely food for thought, and stuff to try.
> 
> What you say resonates. Last year or so I've found my front shoulder to be my focus. I can't quantify my body movements nearly as well as you can, but I find when I'm in balance just moving the shoulder, just a few inches, can control the whole carve. Granted, the rest of the body knows what to do, but the shoulder is all that I need to initiate.
> 
> 
> 
> Glad I'm not alone there as well, lol.


You get it !:jumping1::jumping1:


----------



## Kijima

LALUNE said:


> Is there a link of op eurocarving video in this post or I just missed it?


There is a link of a heel side turn on about page 3 or 4 but to be honest Im not really looking to put pics and vids of myself snowboarding all over the thread, that just lets it slip further into the "I dont like this or that" comment spiral from people who really aren`t here to actually try it. Those who do try it will find a wealth of info from not only myself but other keen carvers who post up what works for them.

We are working, not showing off :grin:


----------



## Kijima

Fielding said:


> The two hand drag looks wack. Bending forward at the waist looks wack. These fall into the category of "trying too hard." The bend you want is more like a side bend, where you move your uphill shoulder toward toward your knees at the beginning of the turn. While you're doing this you're loading your weight onto the nose of the board. At the same time you're decambering and tipping the board up on its edge. This combination of movements allows you to make the turn without losing your speed. Once you're traveling across the fall line aand holding sufficient speed you can stretch out if the mood strikes you. Or you can light a cigarette, work on your rubix cube, check your phone, adjust your junk, etc.
> 
> .


Exactly. This is why I stress that getting dynamic before you even start to try laying it down is so important.
My silly little dance (that nobody has paid attention to yet lol) lets me put all that stuff in a set of brackets and forget about it. I watch friends go straight for the money shot and its all bent over at the waist reaching for the snow. I tell them to wait till they feel their knee touching the snow its time to start laying down.


----------



## Kijima

Fielding said:


> 3. learned to stay in the cockpit


I totally get you on this. I believe that a ducked out rear foot is enemy of the open front shoulder, and therefore the enemy of staying in the cockpit.


----------



## Kijima

Scalpelman said:


> Now that sounds interesting. May help with heelside deep carving.
> 
> Nice string of videos on this thread. Loving it.
> 
> Also, @Kijima I think you need a separate board manufacturing thread.....


Thats why I found myself playing with an idea that goes directly against conventional thinking(being front of sidecut). I tried it and I like it.


----------



## neni

Loads of good info in this thread, also for non-euro carving. I really like those mind pictures used (like grid, joystick, cockpit), as they can serve as mantras on the slope.

The main take home message to me is that it pays off to put thoughts into one's and others riding, analysing the good and bad, etc. Learning is a neverending process. And if you don't get it with method A, check, if you find another method which works for you. And/or create your own one.

I just spent hrs watching n comparing my moves to those of other, better riders, to find out what my problems with a certain motion are. Only by compiling the info of several sources, I think I have a trace now. Next time on slope, I think I'll learn something new .




Kijima said:


> My silly little dance (that nobody has paid attention to yet lol)


Will do, here you go, lol.



Kijima said:


> Ok guys here goes.
> ...
> I doing my little dolphin dance.


After an initial smirk, I actually like the dolphin mind picture. 

I often use the mind pic of "diving into a line" for getting into the cockpit when riding steeps in bc, but haven't used it ever for carving. And as I tend to be late with my knee/push motion in long drawn out carves, I will try next time, if imagining being a dolphin helps to improve that timing (as weird as it sounds, lol).



Fielding said:


> With that said, I've always learned something from messing with board setup. New setups make me really pay attention to inputs and feedback.


True. Some days, having a screwdriver in ones pocket and shift n try n shift n try are awesome to figure stuff out. Even boards which last year, or at the beginning of year were set up a certain way, I like to play with setback/shift of binding to toe or heel, angles, later in the season, since I may have learned something meanwhile, and now may prefer a slight different set-up.



Kijima said:


> The short edge, long radius board will produce the large turn shape we want without so much crazy stuff going on all over the place. Simplification...


Sounds interesting. How much would a long radius be if you think of women's boards? (For 24.5cm feet). The one with the biggest radius I have is a Jones Hovy 150, ww 24.7, r 7.9. I assume that's not yet what you mean?


----------



## Rip154

Kijima said:


> Thats why I found myself playing with an idea that goes directly against conventional thinking(being front of sidecut). I tried it and I like it.


I tried some "setfront" on a C2 (Lib) board once, didn't work at all, but depends on boards, have done fakie riding on directional setback cambers, and that works ok. Moss is making the Wingpin with an option like that (maybe a bit exaggerated to simulate longboarding?), don't know if that works the same way.

Have you tried reverse taper as well? I made a board with that a few years ago. Was fine for powder with alot of setback, but I noticed how it affected turns on groomers too when I centered the stance more. Could have some of the effect you are after. Noticed the Elevated Surfcraft brand put some boards with it into production as well, but I haven't found any of those to try out.


----------



## wrathfuldeity

Damm, wish I didn't have this house project...cause otherwise I be out there trying abunch of this right meow.


----------



## F1EA

Rip154 said:


> I tried some "setfront" on a C2 (Lib) board once, didn't work at all, but depends on boards, have done fakie riding on directional setback cambers, and that works ok. Moss is making the Wingpin with an option like that (maybe a bit exaggerated to simulate longboarding?), don't know if that works the same way.
> 
> Have you tried reverse taper as well? I made a board with that a few years ago. Was fine for powder with alot of setback, but I noticed how it affected turns on groomers too when I centered the stance more. Could have some of the effect you are after. Noticed the Elevated Surfcraft brand put some boards with it into production as well, but I haven't found any of those to try out.


Setback and set front on C2-type profiles is a topic in itself. These profiles are very sensitive to weight distribution/location and getting it wrong works adversely against edge hold. Which we want.

The Dupraz D1 is actually set front. And note how Fielding mentioned it as a solid carving ripper. And it is. BUT the D1 is full camber. I could play around with setback and set front on it and it slightly changed the board's behaviour.... nothing dramatic. In my case I used it at reference (set front) and it was great for going fast. Kept your tail LOCKED no matter what and very stable. Set back was nicer for mellower more forgiving riding. 

I typically add setback on my boards that don't already come with a heavy dose of it. But that's because I'm not aiming to maximize groomer performance and even with some setback, they're still awesome on groomers. Example: Archetype and Flight Attendant... i set them up all the way to the back of the channel. Still rip. And float.

Boards like Fish, landlord, Stun Gun which are heavily setback, I ride at reference. But a lot of people in other forums ride these boards slightly set-front and get great results. It's because they're camber boards.

One thing with the Landlord is the same thing mentioned above about small radius sidecuts and long-ish freeride-based eff edge. That board is excellent, but i know I am compromising long radius groomer turns... there's always some little hiccup as I fight the sidecut when going faster and with more tilt. The Archetype does not. It LOCKS. But i still prefer riding the LL for other reasons...


----------



## Kijima

neni said:


> Sounds interesting. How much would a long radius be if you think of women's boards? (For 24.5cm feet). The one with the biggest radius I have is a Jones Hovy 150, ww 24.7, r 7.9. I assume that's not yet what you mean?


You rode my 10m radius pow board with no problem and that has a longer edge length, a shorter edge length is easier to control, as is a board with more flex between the feet, so what you accomplished on that board in short time shows you need not worry about being able to handle ANY board. I see the speed at which you progress when you put your mind into it, far more than most men I know.
So. . . Neni, the Swiss Miss, you basically kill it on a snowboard, you need only a tad more flex as you weigh less. When you stand on a board you make the same triangle as I do, you are the same joy stick that I am, your shoulders rotate just as mine do. A similar board will produce a similar result. It took me 3 days to get comfortable on that new wide board, now its a toy at my feet and I have a whole new range of options in my snowboarding because of it.:laugh2:

Mountain size has a lot to do with it too, My 12m radius is great on these wide runs but you wouldnt want that on a skinny run. Im building a super wide 8m radius today so peeps can try width without having to learn a new radius at the same time
1m edge length 8m radius. it will be interesting to ride the 2 boards back to back.


----------



## Kijima

Rip154 said:


> I tried some "setfront" on a C2 (Lib) board once, didn't work at all, but depends on boards, have done fakie riding on directional setback cambers, and that works ok. Moss is making the Wingpin with an option like that (maybe a bit exaggerated to simulate longboarding?), don't know if that works the same way.
> 
> Have you tried reverse taper as well? I made a board with that a few years ago. Was fine for powder with alot of setback, but I noticed how it affected turns on groomers too when I centered the stance more. Could have some of the effect you are after. Noticed the Elevated Surfcraft brand put some boards with it into production as well, but I haven't found any of those to try out.


I only try the things that present themselves to me as problems, so far Ive not had a problem that reverse taper was the answer to so I never ended up there .0


----------



## Kijima

One thing that my dolphin dance does for me is it automatically gets me bending my knees at the right time. That natural curve that a dolphin swims with is how I visualize my body movements, its an up and down rhythm. When we add up and down rhythm to our turn we become dynamic.

Create the muscle memories. 
Put a set of brackets around your new skills and put them in your tool box. (What new skills right?)
Enjoy reaching into your tool box as you progress 
:nerd:


----------



## Kijima

Watching Ryans how to really really carve #11 you can see Giri Watts popping up at the end of his heel turn as prep for the toe turn. It's the same thing I do. 
He even puts 2 hands down heelside as his upper body rotation improves throughout the sequence of turns. Shock horror lol. 

The reason his turns look so different to Ryans is that he is obviously on a small radius sidecut which robs him of time in the turn.


----------



## Kijima

Well the season is done for me now peeps so I wish you all the best learning to lay it down. Tape up your shit BEFORE it gets full of holes lol. 

I managed to exceed my goals this season by working hard but thinking harder. I went from petting the dog to linking lay downs on both sides in about 6 weeks by studying, trying and modifying my body movements. 

I managed to snap this shot of my first line in the morning.


----------



## Rip154

This means you finally have time to make the dolphindance video?


----------



## Crusty

Kijima said:


> Well the season is done for me now peeps so I wish you all the best learning to lay it down. Tape up your shit BEFORE it gets full of holes lol.
> 
> I managed to exceed my goals this season by working hard but thinking harder. I went from petting the dog to linking lay downs on both sides in about 6 weeks by studying, trying and modifying my body movements.
> 
> I managed to snap this shot of my first line in the morning.


Mmmm. Nice.


----------



## Kijima

Rip154 said:


> This means you finally have time to make the dolphindance video?


Hahaha, at great risk of personal embarrassment


----------



## Kijima

The dolphin dance is live. I also demonstrate 3 shoulder positions, closed, neutral and open. Closed for toe turns, neutral for straight and open for heel turns. 
At the end I also show the shoulder positions with a knee roll which really opens up your chest for heel turns. 
You can carve using knee rolls as your only input, try that next time you ride. 

https://youtu.be/wvrJgW9y97k


----------



## Kijima

Right now it is the middle of summer and I have been training. 
I have built up my legs and core with 2 simple exercises that were born of the dolphin dance. 
The full body squat and the half squat with upper body rotation. 
These 2 exercises totally surprised me with the speed at which my muscles started to grow, in all the right places. 
To effectively carve all day on a snowboard you need very strong legs and core.
Look at Ryans muscle size in relation to bone length in his legs. The dude has some serious power and serious leverage over his legs. He is a boss when it comes to general leg and core strength. 
I realized if I was going to do this anything like he does that I would need to build up my legs from the chopsticks that they were. 
If you master these 2 exercises (vids coming), and have a snowboard that is wide enough, only your brain is stopping you from carving better. You simply need to understand how to move your body correctly and the carve will be the by product of your training.

Lets go longboarding. If you dont have a longboard yet, get one, pads and helmet too. 

So longboarding in the summer time is the best carving training in the world. I can practice everything I need to to prepare for day one of the 19/20 season.
Im hoping to do back to back lay down turns on my first run ?

So without muscles you cannot do this, I built mine in around 3 months, there is still time to build your muscles before the season starts. Get some. 

Now that we have muscles and can hold our body weight at any elevation for extended periods of time we are ready to put 3 very simple body movements in to place. 

1. The knee roll. 
The knee roll I learned from watching Russian hard boot riders. This really changed my riding. We roll our front knee opening up our legs for a heel turn, and then roll it back, knees together for a toe turn. 
It works beautifully, flipping your body weight from side to side automatically and opening/closing your shoulders.
Your snowboard/longboard will respond, master that.

2. Shoulder rotation. 
From your knee roll position, add in shoulder rotation. Your muscles already know what to do because you became a boss at the half squat/shoulder rotation exercise. 
When you master the combo, start putting your chin on your collar bone too. I save this for a little extra when I need it, sometimes to avoid obstacles, it's nice to have a little something in reserve. 

3. The squeeze. 
The dolphin dance teaches us to squat and rise with correct timing, now as you finish the turn think about squeezing your board out in front of you as you stand tall. 
This increases your speed into the next turn. 

I really recommend learning these 3 separate techniques individually and applying the correct amount of each to suit your own style. Actually the amount of each technique you show or hide determines the style of your turn.

Stay tuned for some riding and exercise technique vids over the next few weeks ?

And thank you Ryan for the inspiration.


----------



## Mig Fullbag

Kijima said:


> So longboarding in the summer time is the best carving training in the world.


I have been saying this since like FOREVER... :wink:

[ame]https://vimeo.com/299587083[/ame]


----------



## timmytard

Code:


[CODE]

[/CODE]


Mig Fullbag said:


> I have been saying this since like FOREVER... :wink:
> 
> https://vimeo.com/299587083


That gave me goosebumps.

Is that cause I'm getting old?

Nah, must be cause my van got broken into & both my long boards got stolen?


TT


----------



## Kijima

Yesterday I put in about 2 hours work on the long board playing with knee rolls. 
What I learned is a further simplification of thought process for making a turn.. I love simplification lol. 

So what I worked out is this. For a heel turn I think about all my power running down my front leg and out through the bone just behind my little toe. 
100% weight on the outside of my front foot. 

For a toe turn I simply roll my front foot until all my power is running down my leg and out through the ball of my foot. 

I'm just flipping my front foot from side to side and my longboard is automatically turning. 

I ordered a DJI ronin sc pro to make some vids but it's taking a while to get here.


----------



## MrDavey2Shoes

I think I will call my carver dance “the angry ape”


----------



## Kijima

I also played a bit with the squeeze, I'm really only just starting with this. 
I found a lot of extra speed from pushing the board out to the point where it wanted to throw me off the back, but just before it does that I leap forward and meet my board out in front if me. 
The same time is spent, but you travel further. That is speed generation right there. :grin:


----------



## Kijima

MrDavey2Shoes said:


> I think I will call my carver dance “the angry ape”


We need vids bro :grin:


----------



## Kijima

Stretch pole https://imgur.com/gallery/UZHB75s
Sorry I can't work out how to link it properly.

I spend a lot of time on these too. I snowboard on the blue one and roll my back on the yellow one. Man it feels good to open up your chest muscles. Our daily life has us leaning forward with shoulders rolled in. Stretching everything the other way really helps your body out.


----------



## wrathfuldeity

Kijima said:


> Yesterday I put in about 2 hours work on the long board playing with knee rolls.
> What I learned is a further simplification of thought procecess for making a turn.. I love simplification lol.
> 
> So what I worked out is this. For a heel turn I think about all my power running down my front leg and out through the bone just behind my little toe.
> 100% weight on the outside of my front foot.
> 
> For a toe turn I simply roll my front foot until all my power is running down my leg and out through the ball of my foot.
> 
> I'm just flipping my front foot from side to side and my longboard is automatically turning.
> 
> I ordered a DJI ronin sc pro to make some vids but it's taking a while to get here.



So are you swinging/rolling your lead knee forward toward the nose for heelside and then bring it aft and driving the knee to go toeside...just trying to visualize?


----------



## Rip154

Feeling this poetic approach you guys are working on. Keep it up


----------



## Kijima

Rip154 said:


> Feeling this poetic approach you guys are working on. Keep it up


Cheers bro. Your comment boosts my confidence :grin:

I just did another 2 hours on long board as the sun rose and worked out 2 exercises that will make me a master of the squeeze. 
Every day I'm finding tiny pieces of information that make me better than I was yesterday. 
Even if my riding is utter shit, I'll still be the happiest dude on the mountain based on that.
:laugh2:


----------



## Kijima

wrathfuldeity said:


> So are you swinging/rolling your lead knee forward toward the nose for heelside and then bring it aft and driving the knee to go toeside...just trying to visualize?


Yes exactly this. The swing is a circular motion rather than in a straight line. 
Do it on the floor right now and feel your little toe side load up, then roll it back in an exact reversal and feel the ball of your foot load up. 

It hurts a bit. I'm sore in those 2 places on my foot. That's a good sign to me :grin:


----------



## Kijima

I'm busting these 2 new exercises in my living room and I realized that the most important aspect of the squeeze is keeping your head low. 
Your head acts like the top bar of a press, the ground acts as the bottom bar. In the middle we squeeze and create force that pushes the board forward. 
If our head is allowed to rise that force is lost.


----------



## timmytard

Kijima said:


> Stretch pole https://imgur.com/gallery/UZHB75s
> Sorry I can't work out how to link it properly.
> 
> I spend a lot of time on these too. I snowboard on the blue one and roll my back on the yellow one. Man it feels good to open up your chest muscles. Our daily life has us leaning forward with shoulders rolled in. Stretching everything the other way really helps your body out.


Haha oh my lord.

Keep practicing, I'm sure you'll be able to fit that yellow one in soon:embarrased1: 

No videos though & that "pics or it didn't happen" phrase, let's just say I'll believe you, no need for pics bwa ha ha ha 


TT


----------



## Kijima

timmytard said:


> Haha oh my lord.
> 
> Keep practicing, I'm sure you'll be able to fit that yellow one in soon:embarrased1:
> 
> No videos though & that "pics or it didn't happen" phrase, let's just say I'll believe you, no need for pics bwa ha ha ha
> 
> 
> TT


Hahaha you sicko TT. 
>

So it's been 2 weeks now since I payed DJI directly for the new Ronin sc pro. Why do peeps sell shit before its ready in 2019. That shit sucks. 

It's 4.52am here now. In my arvo session yesterday I really worked on keeping my head low, I dropped all shoulder rotation and found myself riding super dynamically.
Shoulder rotation is proving to be a fairly dull turn input. Knee rolls are far more effective.
I was doing 50% knee roll which is all front foot and 50% squeeze which is all back foot, with my head as low as possible the entire time. 
My legs burned in a whole new way lol. 
This is "In the cockpit" riding. 

I have isolated the individual movements that ARE snowboarding. Im going to translate that into simple exercises we can all do at home with no equipment so we can ALL start shredding better than last season. :x


----------



## davidj

Kijima said:


> Hahaha you sicko TT.
> >
> 
> I have isolated the individual movements that ARE snowboarding. Im going to translate that into *simple exercises* we can all *do at home with no equipment* so we can ALL start shredding better than last season. :x


You had me at "no equipment" :notworthy:


----------



## Kijima

https://imgur.com/gallery/qxly7bX









Please can someone help me to get these links working lol? 
I took a screen shot of this mornings session that shows entry into a heel turn. 
It shows my front leg doing all the work of the direction change, loading up the outside of my foot, and my back leg waiting to perform the squeeze. 
For the squeeze to produce forward thrust my head cannot rise from that height, as my legs straighten the board has nowhere to go but forward.


----------



## Kijima

Just me talkin to myself again :grin:

Currently knee rolling past the little toe position for heel side turns, allowing more weight on to the heel saves a lot of energy at the expense of shock adsorption. 

Its an intentional step away from total performance to increase total efficiency.

The techniques are becoming second nature to me now, the mind is free to focus on new details as they arrive. 

Keep snowboarding in your mind peeps :x


----------



## Kijima

This is a sketch of knee rolls https://imgur.com/gallery/QVQuCV1


----------



## Lad Stones

Rip154 said:


> Kijima said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thats why I found myself playing with an idea that goes directly against conventional thinking(being front of sidecut). I tried it and I like it.
> 
> 
> 
> I tried some "setfront" on a C2 (Lib) board once, didn't work at all, but depends on boards, have done fakie riding on directional setback cambers, and that works ok. Moss is making the Wingpin with an option like that (maybe a bit exaggerated to simulate longboarding?), don't know if that works the same way.
> 
> Have you tried reverse taper as well? I made a board with that a few years ago. Was fine for powder with alot of setback, but I noticed how it affected turns on groomers too when I centered the stance more. Could have some of the effect you are after. Noticed the Elevated Surfcraft brand put some boards with it into production as well, but I haven't found any of those to try out.
Click to expand...

I'm just about to get an Elevated Surf Craft reverse taper board after seeing the brand mentioned elsewhere on this forum.

So I've been watching videos of them. Here's one with a bit of carving:

https://youtu.be/QPgiVj6Nb5w

Only one of those has reverse taper though, I believe.


----------



## Kijima




----------



## Kijima

Knee roll vid is live 


https://youtu.be/Cusiqu2PTaI


----------



## Aracan

A video showing that move in the wild, i.e. on an actual snowboard, would be great. The skateboard video looks pretty much like standard EC moves as propagated by the Swoard and Pureboarding guys.


----------



## Kijima

Aracan said:


> A video showing that move in the wild, i.e. on an actual snowboard, would be great. The skateboard video looks pretty much like standard EC moves as propagated by the Swoard and Pureboarding guys.


Bro, it's september lol


----------



## MrDavey2Shoes

I always squeeze it out before leaving my house for the day. Cool video, your form is very fluid. Will post my angry ape dance at first snow ?


----------



## sneakybanana

Just bought an electric board and i'm hoping to try your exercises Kijima! Your effort to document your exercises and ideas is appreciated!


----------



## davidj

@Kijima, what about Bosu Ball squats to improve snowboard balance?


----------



## wrathfuldeity

Kijima said:


> Knee roll vid is live
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nice vid of showing the knee roll while moving verses just standing in the creepy basement vid...I think we are talking (more or less) about the same thing however you are rolling the knee more and I like your squeezing it out. The creepy is more for newbs and your's is for advanced folks.


----------



## F1EA

Kijima said:


> Knee roll vid is live
> 
> 
> https://youtu.be/Cusiqu2PTaI


Hey I have (well... had) your same shoes

https://www.instagram.com/p/yyuXlBGUxK/?utm_source=ig_web_button_share_sheet

They don't make em like they used to


----------



## Kijima

sneakybanana said:


> Just bought an electric board and i'm hoping to try your exercises Kijima! Your effort to document your exercises and ideas is appreciated!


Thank you Sir 
I wore the wheels down to the core this summer, for the last few months I`ve been busy in the workshop building boards. Nagano resorts are nearly open


----------



## Kijima

F1EA said:


> Hey I have (well... had) your same shoes
> 
> 
> __
> http://instagr.am/p/yyuXlBGUxK/
> 
> They don't make em like they used to


I just bought 2 pair man. It seems a lot of old pro skaters are reviving their old shoes for the over 40s 6am skater market lol


----------



## Kijima

I have never seen that before but it seems we agree on a lot, I would love to chat with the man.

I would like everyone to know that I dont think I invented anything here, and I have no need for ego stroking. All the information is available to everyone, too much of it in fact.
All I did was sort and refine until I had nothing left but the bare essentials and tried to deliver it in a simple, easy to understand manner. The video was my first edited video ever lol, I will get better and I will update the video this season ON SNOW 

Thanks to everyone sharing good vibes ?


----------



## Kijima

davidj said:


> @Kijima, what about Bosu Ball squats to improve snowboard balance?


 Not even an echo lol


----------



## wrathfuldeity

Kijima said:


> I have never seen that before but it seems we agree on a lot, I would love to chat with the man.
> 
> I would like everyone to know that I dont think I invented anything here, and I have no need for ego stroking. All the information is available to everyone, too much of it in fact.
> All I did was sort and refine until I had nothing left but the bare essentials and tried to deliver it in a simple, easy to understand manner. The video was my first edited video ever lol, I will get better and I will update the video this season ON SNOW
> 
> Thanks to everyone sharing good vibes ?


^Likewise, did the vid for a person that had a below the knee amp and had some ROM issues (was my first and only SB vid). I'm self-taught, during my initial schooling, had alot of difficulty understanding basic concepts and moves. A large part of the difficulty, was watching others on hill you couldn't see what was actually happening under the baggy clothes and they were moving too fast. So in the vid just covering some basic gems that folks graciously bestowed on me over the years. The vid is basic conceptual stuff I wish someone would have done in a simple easy package. wrath


----------



## Kijima

wrathfuldeity said:


> ^Likewise, did the vid for a person that had a below the knee amp and had some ROM issues (was my first and only SB vid). I'm self-taught, during my initial schooling, had alot of difficulty understanding basic concepts and moves. A large part of the difficulty, was watching others on hill you couldn't see what was actually happening under the baggy clothes and they were moving too fast. So in the vid just covering some basic gems that folks graciously bestowed on me over the years. The vid is basic conceptual stuff I wish someone would have done in a simple easy package. wrath


Is that you?


----------



## wrathfuldeity

Kijima said:


> Is that you?


Its someone inpersonating me


----------



## Kijima

wrathfuldeity said:


> Its someone inpersonating me


Haha nice work man. Respect✌✌


----------



## Kijima

Tonight I want to talk about heel side chatter.
The cause of heel chatter is that our bodies are not inside the turn radius.

Picture your heel turn drawn out on the ground in front of you. A big half circle right.
Now lets think about riding a motorbike around it. You're going to want to lean in a bit huh, or you would fall off, being outside the circle and all. . .
Well it's the same fajita on a snowboard lads and ladies. Lean in or fall off the obtuse side of your own turn. A turn you created, but got on the wrong side of from the begining.

So how do we get inside the radius? Inside the circle?
With a single movement, we roll our front knee around as far as we can and hold it. Assume position-hold, the by products of this pose are tremendous.
Relax and let time create the turn for you. As the turn comes around it becomes obvious to lean back and pop out.

Inside the circle you can do no wrong. ✌✌✌


----------



## Seppuccu

(I have nothing to add, just want to follow this thread.)


----------



## ctoma

Very nice, thanks.

Recording your videos in the basement would give the vids a spectacularly creepy vibe. Just a suggestion.


----------



## WigMar

Thanks for this thread and the insights it has brought up. Your theory about having too much effective edge for easy carving blew my mind, and I had to try carving on my 144 Cool Bean today. I always use that board for the trees, and tree days are spent 90+% in the trees. Fore-aft weighting felt more obvious than on my longer decks. I had to max my stance out.

You're totally right, I was carving so hard today with less effort. Once you're stacked and the Gs get rolling, washing out just isn't an issue. Over-unders felt super locked in and swoopy. After sitting on the snow a bit, I finally did an actual laid out heelside that wasn't dog petting. I didn't pop out if it that well, but it still felt insanely good. I think there's a link between holding Gs in turns and pure joy. 

Riding a shorter effective edge makes me want to try a larger sidecut. My Cool Bean is 7.4 m, and it was feeling swoopy today. The Bateleon party wave has an 8.7-8.9 m sidecut. Do any other production boards come to mind? It's inspirational that you built your own carvers- way to experiment and drive your progression. I'll always love skateboarding, and I'm working on a pow surfer in the shop right now. Keep it up Kijima!


----------



## Rip154

Closest would be slush slasher or furberg i think.


----------



## Snowdaddy

The only instance a shorter effective edge would provide more stability and friction is if the edge needs to be short to penetrate the snow surface. In general a snowboard’s edge wouldn’t have that problem. I think this is more of a skier problem on really icy conditions.


----------



## Rip154

Seems to be more about leverage and flex than edgehold. A superbike can do better turns than a bus.

And doing videos in ctomas basement while hes sleeping does sound like a nice touch.


----------



## Paxford

Great thread, really appreciate it Kijima!



Kijima said:


> I believe that a ducked out rear foot is enemy of the open front shoulder, and therefore the enemy of staying in the cockpit.


For you yes, but I think it depends on how each person is built.

Well, your toe bone connected to your foot bone
Your foot bone connected to your heel bone
Your heel bone connected to your ankle bone
Your ankle bone connected to your leg bone
Your leg bone connected to your knee bone
Your knee bone connected to your thigh bone
Your thigh bone connected to your hip bone
Your hip bone connected to your back bone
Your back bone connected to your shoulder bone
Your shoulder bone connected to your neck bone
Your neck bone connected to your head bone

Positive angle on the rear foot doesn't help me carve at all. I have no problem opening up my front shoulder with slightly negative rear foot angles, it feels very natural. Food for thought in the link below, maybe it'll help folks with differing body types get low and dynamic by adjusting their stance. I've always wondered why I prefer a narrow stance at 6'3" tall, while others who are much shorter than me swear by a super-wide stance ...



https://www.healigo.com/blog/2016/12/14/all-squats-were-not-created-equal





Kijima said:


> One thing that my dolphin dance does for me is it automatically gets me bending my knees at the right time. That natural curve that a dolphin swims with is how I visualize my body movements, its an up and down rhythm. When we add up and down rhythm to our turn we become dynamic.
> 
> ?


Right there with ya on the concept of a dolphin dance, I was pleasantly surprised to hear I'm not alone with my swooshy dance machinations. Surfing, skating (longboard style), snowboarding, IMO it's all the same dance.



Mig Fullbag said:


> I have been saying this since like FOREVER... ?
> 
> [ame]


I've been wondering for awhile but now I'm comfortable saying ... Carver C7's work better than that at lower speeds ?



Kijima said:


> I also played a bit with the squeeze, I'm really only just starting with this.
> I found a lot of extra speed from pushing the board out to the point where it wanted to throw me off the back, but just before it does that I leap forward and meet my board out in front if me.
> The same time is spent, but you travel further. That is speed generation right there. ?


RAD! You've tasted it, now if you haven't already taste some more ... the squeeze (speed generation) can be found all over if you start looking at every inch of available terrain as an opportunity to boost. Watch pro surfers and break down their movements. Mick Fanning explains it and shows the dolphin technique in his surfing well-






Also watch snowboarder Danny Davis boost speed off terrain features in his various Peace Park vids, he's got it down. 



Kijima said:


> Yes exactly this. The swing is a circular motion rather than in a straight line.
> Do it on the floor right now and feel your little toe side load up, then roll it back in an exact reversal and feel the ball of your foot load up.
> 
> It hurts a bit. I'm sore in those 2 places on my foot. That's a good sign to me ?


Pressure from heel to ball and toes, and even specific toes, matters. Most advice is to set your front and back foot bindings equal distance under/over the edge of the board. I don't do that because that's not how my body balances best as the head of a joystick in a surfy dolphin dance. My back foot binding placement favors toeside edge, front foot favors heelside edge. We are talking very little binding shift here but it makes a difference. When surfing my feet move all over, but most pressure is in those locations evidenced by pressure dings. What this placement does snowboarding is make me feel very comfortable and solid in a carve, which then allows me to explore other little details. Maybe put something on your skateboard deck that'll show where your feet typically reside and copy that over to your snowboard.

I posted up awhile ago asking if anyone had experimented with the different bushings you can put on the 4 corners of Now bindings. Like soft bushings on the big toe and hard bushings elsewhere, or some other mix. Nobody had. Working on it ... slowly ...



Kijima said:


> I have isolated the individual movements that ARE snowboarding.


And skating and surfing and to some extent mountain biking. These sports are inline with the joystick analogy. Nice work!


----------



## Kijima

Paxford said:


> Great thread, really appreciate it Kijima!
> 
> 
> 
> For you yes, but I think it depends on how each person is built.
> 
> Well, your toe bone connected to your foot bone
> Your foot bone connected to your heel bone
> Your heel bone connected to your ankle bone
> Your ankle bone connected to your leg bone
> Your leg bone connected to your knee bone
> Your knee bone connected to your thigh bone
> Your thigh bone connected to your hip bone
> Your hip bone connected to your back bone
> Your back bone connected to your shoulder bone
> Your shoulder bone connected to your neck bone
> Your neck bone connected to your head bone
> 
> Positive angle on the rear foot doesn't help me carve at all. I have no problem opening up my front shoulder with slightly negative rear foot angles, it feels very natural. Food for thought in the link below, maybe it'll help folks with differing body types get low and dynamic by adjusting their stance. I've always wondered why I prefer a narrow stance at 6'3" tall, while others who are much shorter than me swear by a super-wide stance ...
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.healigo.com/blog/2016/12/14/all-squats-were-not-created-equal
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Right there with ya on the concept of a dolphin dance, I was pleasantly surprised to hear I'm not alone with my swooshy dance machinations. Surfing, skating (longboard style), snowboarding, IMO it's all the same dance.
> 
> 
> 
> I've been wondering for awhile but now I'm comfortable saying ... Carver C7's work better than that at lower speeds ?
> 
> 
> 
> RAD! You've tasted it, now if you haven't already taste some more ... the squeeze (speed generation) can be found all over if you start looking at every inch of available terrain as an opportunity to boost. Watch pro surfers and break down their movements. Mick Fanning explains it and shows the dolphin technique in his surfing well-
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also watch snowboarder Danny Davis boost speed off terrain features in his various Peace Park vids, he's got it down.
> 
> 
> 
> Pressure from heel to ball and toes, and even specific toes, matters. Most advice is to set your front and back foot bindings equal distance under/over the edge of the board. I don't do that because that's not how my body balances best as the head of a joystick in a surfy dolphin dance. My back foot binding placement favors toeside edge, front foot favors heelside edge. We are talking very little binding shift here but it makes a difference. When surfing my feet move all over, but most pressure is in those locations evidenced by pressure dings. What this placement does snowboarding is make me feel very comfortable and solid in a carve, which then allows me to explore other little details. Maybe put something on your skateboard deck that'll show where your feet typically reside and copy that over to your snowboard.
> 
> I posted up awhile ago asking if anyone had experimented with the different bushings you can put on the 4 corners of Now bindings. Like soft bushings on the big toe and hard bushings elsewhere, or some other mix. Nobody had. Working on it ... slowly ...
> 
> 
> 
> And skating and surfing and to some extent mountain biking. These sports are inline with the joystick analogy. Nice work!


Thank you so much for the effort you just put in to your reply man. I love it. 
A lot of your suggestions I have already put into practice. 

Post more by all means ?


----------



## Kijima

I stopped caring about bindings after I found my form. While I was learning my bindings were subjected to lots of force but now they dont play a big role. 
I feel the board and bindings just follow me around with minimal resistance much like a car trailer. 
The work was done by my body, the board just has to provide a slippery surface and some steel edges that are sufficiently wide.


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## Kijima

Concept. 
Karate chop a ball with your hand, firstly in the middle, the force will be adsorbed by the ball resulting in a neutral movement. 
Now chop it slightly off to the side and the ball will move. 
Downward force applied rear of centre creates forward movement. 

Speed generation happens. 

So my squeeze is trying to create forward momentum without feeling like I am falling off the back of the board which in turn requires energy to correct. 
I have found it by allowing my hips to shift rearward as I squeeze. My head stays at the same height, as my back leg straightens out I let that hip shift back, the board automatically shifts forward replicating the off centre karate chop and my leg straightening is turned into forward momentum.


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## Kijima

Snowdaddy said:


> The only instance a shorter effective edge would provide more stability and friction is if the edge needs to be short to penetrate the snow surface. In general a snowboard’s edge wouldn’t have that problem. I think this is more of a skier problem on really icy conditions.


Nobody said less edge gives more grip.
I said more edge unnecessary.
I said more edge forces your board to flex more in a carve further reducing your turn radius.
Width is essential, length is not, choose one cause with both your board will be very heavy.
I said 1m is enough. I could prove it to others by building a board with even less edge again and carve on it to an equal standard, but Ive already proven that to myself, I stop at that point and move forward lol.


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## Kijima

WigMar said:


> I think there's a link between holding Gs in turns and pure joy.
> 
> Riding a shorter effective edge makes me want to try a larger sidecut. My Cool Bean is 7.4 m, and it was feeling swoopy today. The Bateleon party wave has an 8.7-8.9 m sidecut. Do any other production boards come to mind?


I found that same link lol. For me, that moment at the start of a heel turn is pure bliss.
Im bringing a range of boards that will challenge how people think about snowboards and snowboarding itself.
Theres a small fb page if anyone cares. Kijima snowboards, you can find it if you want to ✌✌


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## Snowdaddy

Kijima said:


> Nobody said less edge gives more grip.
> I said more edge unnecessary.
> I said more edge forces your board to flex more in a carve further reducing your turn radius.
> Width is essential, length is not, choose one cause with both your board will be very heavy.
> I said 1m is enough. I could prove it to others by building a board with even less edge again and carve on it to an equal standard, but Ive already proven that to myself, I stop at that point and move forward lol.


I realize this is your thread and about your carving. However, if you were to weight 500 kg, your 1m edge wouldn't be enough. I don't doubt that 1m effective edge is fine for you, If you say so I'll just take your word for it.

The amount of centripetal force a board is able to produce is roughly dependent on how long your effective edge is and the board's stiffness. 

So while I don't doubt that your boards carve excellent, it's overly simplified claiming that anyone would be fine with a short effective edge.


----------



## Kijima

Snowdaddy said:


> I realize this is your thread and about your carving. However, if you were to weight 500 kg, your 1m edge wouldn't be enough. I don't doubt that 1m effective edge is fine for you, If you say so I'll just take your word for it.
> 
> The amount of centripetal force a board is able to produce is roughly dependent on how long your effective edge is and the board's stiffness.
> 
> So while I don't doubt that your boards carve excellent, it's overly simplified claiming that anyone would be fine with a short effective edge.


I am trying to simplify snowboarding my friend. I know some people don't like it, and Im stepping on toes as forum heavies feel the pressure of a new kid on the block lol.
None of that worries me.

So to reply i think the heavier rider enjoys more force on his edges and would not slide out due to lack of edge length.
Correct form is far more important, the board just needs to be adequate.


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## Kijima

Intentional asymmetry of body, and how we can use it to become better snowboarders.

In my search to heal my 41 year old body I discovered the importance of symmetry of body and symmetry of motion. For months I focused on my habits and the resulting body positions. As a right handed person I heavily favour my right side. Im holding this phone in my right hand now, I will lay on my left side so that my right side is free to do it's work etc. If we stand with perfect symmetry and then hold something in one hand, our body will shift it's centre to the opposite side, counter balancing the weight we just picked up. The right handed person is usually right eye dominant and therefore a regular stance snowboarder as we like our dominant eye to be at the back as we ride. 
So right handed and regular stance. My habit of overusing my right side results in my body offsetting to the left when I hold something, now when I an NOT holding something, I have earned a slight rearward bias. The right handed person will naturally lean right of centre. All of my lifestyle habits had resulted in me leaning back on my snowboard whilst feeling like I was centre. A very bad idea indeed. 
Deeper in to study I went and found some videos from a guy Wright Balance. He plays with sports stuff and does a strange thing where he throws his hands up near his ears three times and speaks about resetting his balance. 
Well it works a charm, check out his videos, the one I saw only had 70 something views, adapted to board sports, the concept is priceless. I realized even holding my board in my right hand was hurting my riding. 
Mind blown.

So check your habits. You could be setting yourself up for failure in snowboarding just by the way you live day to day. I was.


----------



## Kijima

Kijima said:


> I am trying to simplify snowboarding my friend. I know some people don't like it, and Im stepping on toes as forum heavies feel the pressure of a new kid on the block lol.
> None of that worries me.
> The heavier rider applies more force to the edge, I can't see them slipping out due to a too short edge at all. Just take my word lol


----------



## Snowdaddy

Kijima said:


> I am trying to simplify snowboarding my friend. I know some people don't like it, and Im stepping on toes as forum heavies feel the pressure of a new kid on the block lol.
> None of that worries me.
> 
> So to reply i think the heavier rider enjoys more force on his edges and would not slide out due to edge length.


I’m not a forum heavy and I’m not an expert rider. I do know the basic physics of centripetal force and pressure.


----------



## Mig Fullbag

I rarely disagree with you, but this is something we don't see eye to eye on. I am not a forum heavy, but I AM extremely heavy. And my 40 year experience on boards with effective edge ranging from 100cm up to over 150cm tells me otherwise. An effective edge of 100cm (combined with a bigger sidecut radius) might be working well for carving at your weight and speed on soft japanese groomers, but I can tell you it won't cut it for a bigger guy like me and/or at higher speeds and/or on steeper slopes and/or on harder or icier conditions. If a super short effective edge is the best thing for high performance carving, then there's a bunch of carving specific board designers that have been doing it all wrong for a long time... (Kessler, Oxess, Coiler, Donek, Prior, Thirst, Virus, Pogo. Gray, etc...) I am not saying it doesn't work or that it isn't a blast to ride, because I know it is. But it definitely reaches its limit quickly when any of these parameters increases (rider weight, speed, steepness, and snow hardness). Even more so when two or more do.


----------



## Paxford

Rider skill is a huge offset to those increasing parameters, but I agree with your points Mig about matching rider/board/terrain and finding the limit in some situations.


----------



## Paxford

Kijima have you reviewed the write-up's at Elevated Surfcraft? Lots of gems to be found there.


----------



## Kijima

Snowboarding center of gravity map


http://imgur.com/a/jkxLoQm


----------



## Kijima

Snowboarding board vs body movement map


http://imgur.com/a/xbP0E2k


----------



## Paxford

For this to work for me I have to think of the red = body as red = head or red = upper torso because the entire body doesn't follow the red line. Regardless, it's in your DNA now.


----------



## Kijima

Paxford said:


> For this to work for me I have to think of the red = body as red = head or red = upper torso because the entire body doesn't follow the red line. Regardless, it's in your DNA now.


You are correct. The red line is your head


----------



## Kijima

Kijima Snowboards Taiyaki 8m sidecut, 261mm waist


http://imgur.com/a/tbRJzpN


----------



## bazman

Kijima said:


> Kijima Snowboards Taiyaki 8m sidecut, 261mm waist
> 
> 
> http://imgur.com/a/tbRJzpN


Wow, that's a nice looking board


----------



## Kijima

bazman said:


> Wow, that's a nice looking board


Cheers bro. This one is my first built to order board for a customer, she came in and picked out what she wanted from all my shapes and colors etc.


----------



## Olivetta

Beautiful board that you made 

I like it 


I love to euro carving too

and I know what I need for Doing it or at list I think so

i am lucky rider, my foot is only 8US size 


by the way I need anyway a large waist snowboard 

actually I use 26,5 cm waist but specially in the back I know that it is not enough 

I use to ride a 156w and I would love to find a true twin with very stiff with a big waist like 28 or 30 cm 

actually I ride a Volkl squad prime

156cm it is ok for a short medim turn 

but at hi speed I think that a longer board it could be better 

of course it always about what do you metter in this sport 

you can not have everything specially when you are going to buy a board


----------



## Kijima

Olivetta said:


> Beautiful board that you made
> 
> I like it
> 
> 
> I love to euro carving too
> 
> and I know what I need for Doing it or at list I think so
> 
> i am lucky rider, my foot is only 8US size
> 
> 
> by the way I need anyway a large waist snowboard
> 
> actually I use 26,5 cm waist but specially in the back I know that it is not enough
> 
> I use to ride a 156w and I would love to find a true twin with very stiff with a big waist like 28 or 30 cm
> 
> actually I ride a Volkl squad prime
> 
> 156cm it is ok for a short medim turn
> 
> but at hi speed I think that a longer board it could be better
> 
> of course it always about what do you metter in this sport
> 
> you can not have everything specially when you are going to buy a board


People think Im crazy for saying this but I believe a shorter edge is better for carving because it gives less sidecut depth. That results in less board flex and cleaner turn shapes. 

A 12m radius board with 1m edge will give a bigger easier turn than one with a 12m radius but 1.2m edge. 
Same physical radius but different real world result due to that extra sidecut depth. 
We don't need it.


----------



## Kijima

Picture this.
An apple on a chopping board.
You pick up the knife and cut it, your wife also cuts it easily with the same knife.
The knife worked perfectly for you both even though you probably have different sized arms, and applied very different amounts of pressure.
The apple cut was easy because you both had more than enough power to get the job done.

Every snowboarder, just by weighing something, has enough power to get the job done, if they use that weigh to their advantage.

More edge only makes a shorter turn.

Your body is a great big lever, your snowboard just follows along.


----------



## Olivetta

I Would love to L try one of your board 

it is very hard to find a board like that with a long radius like 12 or something like that in Italy

an other Question

I have the impression (maybe I could be wrong) that your stylish it is so like the Japan’s rider
Well every single video that I saw about the Japanese carving it is about go very slow 

do you think that you could put some video about you or your board at big speed?

because your teory it is a little bit against every single knowledge that exist

it is like the Boucher does not need a big knife for cut thebeef


----------



## BoardieK

Olivetta said:


> I Would love to L try one of your board
> 
> it is very hard to find a board like that with a long radius like 12 or something like that in Italy
> ................


You might find something in the museum at the Surf Shop in Prato Nevoso!


----------



## Rip154

Olivetta said:


> I Would love to L try one of your board
> 
> it is very hard to find a board like that with a long radius like 12 or something like that in Italy
> 
> an other Question
> 
> I have the impression (maybe I could be wrong) that your stylish it is so like the Japan’s rider
> Well every single video that I saw about the Japanese carving it is about go very slow
> 
> do you think that you could put some video about you or your board at big speed?
> 
> because your teory it is a little bit against every single knowledge that exist
> 
> it is like the Boucher does not need a big knife for cut thebeef


It's carving in snow where your edge digs in, not sideslipping. A butcher needs more edge to slice a big piece in one drag and weight for chopping, snow isn't meat. Sure a longer edge can be more stable, but it's harder to get the flex right, and the wide sidecut helps with stability too. It won't cover every need, but I doubt that was the point.


----------



## Jkb818

Do you have an online store? Ship to US?


----------



## Olivetta

The table that we are spiking about it is 142cm x30,5 (I know that this is not the right calculation but we will try to do something that make sense )
Ok this table is plus or less 0,43 metre square 

If we consider a normal table. Like mine

156cm x 26,5 we will have 0,41metre square

Now my edge is 1235cm with radius of 7 

yours uses a radius of 12 with an effective edge of 100cm

Again I do not have doubt that your board it is a great board 

but I am wandering why you are the only one that use this kind of radius

The only time that I tried a Radius so high was on a SBX board


----------



## Olivetta

And I can tell that a SBX boards are not Boards for every one


----------



## Kijima

http://imgur.com/a/5YPra5N


----------



## Kijima

http://imgur.com/a/X4bGf6q


----------



## Jkb818

@Kijima 
Do you have an online store? Ship to US?


----------



## Kijima

Jkb818 said:


> @Kijima
> Do you have an online store? Ship to US?


Hey Jkb
Not just yet, expect all of that for next season.
For now I have limited stock and demo boards available locally ✌


----------



## Kijima

double post


----------



## Paxford

@Kijima, I've been considering the merits of short vs long effective edge for my riding. I didn't question whether one was better to carve over another. Rather I came to realize that a short effective edge kicks my butt, in a good way. Shorter edges are more fun for me. But sometimes I ride multiple days back to back. A long effective edge is easier on the body so I can ride well again the next day. There's a place for both in my quiver.


----------



## Kijima

Olivetta said:


> The table that we are spiking about it is 142cm x30,5 (I know that this is not the right calculation but we will try to do something that make sense )
> Ok this table is plus or less 0,43 metre square
> 
> If we consider a normal table. Like mine
> 
> 156cm x 26,5 we will have 0,41metre square
> 
> Now my edge is 1235cm with radius of 7
> 
> yours uses a radius of 12 with an effective edge of 100cm
> 
> Again I do not have doubt that your board it is a great board
> 
> but I am wandering why you are the only one that use this kind of radius
> 
> The only time that I tried a Radius so high was on a SBX board





Olivetta said:


> The table that we are spiking about it is 142cm x30,5 (I know that this is not the right calculation but we will try to do something that make sense )
> Ok this table is plus or less 0,43 metre square
> 
> If we consider a normal table. Like mine
> 
> 156cm x 26,5 we will have 0,41metre square
> 
> Now my edge is 1235cm with radius of 7
> 
> yours uses a radius of 12 with an effective edge of 100cm
> 
> Again I do not have doubt that your board it is a great board
> 
> but I am wandering why you are the only one that use this kind of radius
> 
> The only time that I tried a Radius so high was on a SBX board


I think for the case of carving we must ignore total board width/volume as we only ride a few centimetres at the edge. That the board is wide is purely to prevent boot out, it is not a tactic or strategy for the turn itself.
That my turn shape is large and symmetrical is a function of the static sidecut radius vs edge length. If I were to use a longer edge with the same radius my turn would be of smaller total size and it would be less of a perfect C shape as the board would be forced to flex heavily at the apex of the turn. people use board stiffness to counter act this but I believe that leads to boards riding like stiff planks.
My shorter edge length allows me perfect turn shape throughout a carved turn on a forgiving, flexible, fun board that works in most aspects of snowboarding rather than becoming carve specific like long or stiff boards become.

Now your spec of 7m at 1235mm is a short radius over a long distance. Unfortunately that combo is making it very difficult for you to carve and you will be learning form that you will need to work on forgetting when you get a board that is more appropriately designed for your needs.

Remember people believed the earth was flat for a very long time, many were ridiculed for saying otherwise. We may find safety in the herd, but little else.


----------



## Kijima

Olivetta said:


> I Would love to L try one of your board
> 
> because your teory it is a little bit against every single knowledge that exist


Thank you. That is a big compliment for me


----------



## Kijima

Paxford said:


> @Kijima, I've been considering the merits of short vs long effective edge for my riding. I didn't question whether one was better to carve over another. Rather I came to realize that a short effective edge kicks my butt, in a good way. Shorter edges are more fun for me. But sometimes I ride multiple days back to back. A long effective edge is easier on the body so I can ride well again the next day. There's a place for both in my quiver.


That is a great point Paxford. 
Perhaps our day is like a triangle. Snow/body/board.
As we shuffle around our specs we change the sides on that triangle, shifting energy from the board to the body in this case. That is probably a good thing as we should focus on our body movements rather than our board as we ride.


----------



## DaveMcI

My triangle is a pyramid with 5 sides, the most important is the side down. I'm hoping one day I'll see to the great beyond, and it will turn into a weeble wobble with no sides and never can be knocked over


----------



## Kijima

In the last few days I found the final pieces to this puzzle I took on months ago. I now have the building blocks in place that when perfected will become my style.

I have dreamed up, tried, perfected, then dumped, dreamed up again and found new ways to get to my goal.

Each step was an important part of my snowboarding improvement. In the beginning I had to get super loose and over do my movements to get a feel for it but now I have stripped back as much as I can, leaving essential elements only.

I have come to realize that our mind is the driver, our body is the car and the snowboard is the trailer, simply following along.

I base my set of turns around the heel turn. All my effort goes into the heel turn and the toe turn is merely a natural unwind from the heel turn.

Conditions here in japan are shite atm but i will try and get a vid up in the next few days if possible. ✌✌✌✌✌


----------



## lbs123

Kijima said:


> Conditions here in japan are shite atm but i will try and get a vid up in the next few days if possible. ✌✌✌✌✌


Looking forward to finally see this in practice!


----------



## MrDavey2Shoes

I’d call the board the tires since a trailer does nothing but impede a car.


----------



## Kijima

lbs123 said:


> Looking forward to finally see this in practice!


Me too man!
I am very happy with the heel turn but have some minor issues on my toe side that are the same problems I deal with as a human. Nerd neck, hunched shoulders and a back side that hangs out too much.
When I fix my walk, I guess I fix my toe turn lol


----------



## Kijima

I just did a lap with no highbacks and as I expected had no trouble at all. I could feel that the highback was not there but it did not hurt me at all. 
3 or 4 lay down heel turns happened easily. 
Im using my whole body as a lever. 
When you do that, everything changes. 

32cm waist, no highbacks, easy laid out heel carves.


----------



## Kijima

MrDavey2Shoes said:


> I’d call the board the tires since a trailer does nothing but impede a car.


As long as you know it belongs in 3rd place behind the mind and body.


----------



## Kijima

I used to ride stiff boards, I would hunt out the stiffest boots and bindings. I believed I needed that for fast, hard riding. I was totally wrong. Now I ride faster and harder, with much better form, on soft forgiving snowboards. 
So how do I manage this when all available experience tells us we need stiff unforgiving gear if we want to charge hard?
The answer is that I the rider, am the deliverer of stiffness to my snowboard.

A bridge over a river is supported by the structure above or below it. The flat road itself is not enough, so engineers design bracing usually in triangle shapes as they are very strong. 
Our snowboard is the road, our body is the bracing. Our body is the primary stiffener of our snowboard yet most of us stand on our boards without taking advantage of this fact.

A boxer stands in the ring with his muscles all pumped up, his body as stiff as he can make it for the task he is about to tackle. When he gets hit he is ready for it. He was waiting for it, expecting it.
On a snowboard you can add stiffness with the enormous triangle that you form when you stand on your board. Push your front foot forward and your back foot back into your bindings to become stiff when YOU choose to rather than nursing a stiff board around all day just to achieve the same end. ✌✌✌✌✌


----------



## Rip154

Been working on those tibs? As long as the boots don't have so much forward lean and stiffness that you have to fight it, it's cool to see what you can do without highbacks. I still like them most of the time as I rarely get groomers, and a lot of low visibility.


----------



## Snowdaddy

Kijima said:


> A bridge over a river is supported by the structure above or below it. The flat road itself is not enough, so engineers design bracing usually in triangle shapes as they are very strong.
> Our snowboard is the road, our body is the bracing. Our body is the primary stiffener of our snowboard yet most of us stand on our boards without taking advantage of this fact


Sorry, but our bodies are not rigid triangle shapes. It's the complete opposite.


----------



## Kijima

Snowdaddy said:


> Sorry, but our bodies are not rigid triangle shapes. It's the complete opposite.


I fail to see your logic. Feel free to elaborate


----------



## Kijima

2 legs fixed to a flat board is a triangle, if you flex you become rigid. 
I do anyway.


----------



## MCrides

Kijima said:


> A bridge over a river is supported by the structure above or below it. The flat road itself is not enough, so engineers design bracing usually in triangle shapes as they are very strong.
> Our snowboard is the road, our body is the bracing. Our body is the primary stiffener of our snowboard yet most of us stand on our boards without taking advantage of this fact.


I don't think this is clicking for me either. A bridge is supported from above, sure, but it's also shaped like an arch just like a stiff, cambered snowboard to give support from below.

In my mind the purpose of a stiff board is to offer resistance to the pressure your legs are putting against it. The stiffer the board, the more pressure you can apply without the board giving way, allowing for faster, more aggressive carving.

Of course it's _possible_ to carve a soft board, and of course a stiffer snowboard can be limiting in other ways, but I'm not grokking how I can replace that stiffness at will by pressing my legs outward.


----------



## MrDavey2Shoes

I don’t care about stiffness as much as dampness. DaveyDampShoes over here. My knees and back are shot and I need help from my board to absorb big hits so I don’t have to tweak my back and pinch my sciatic nerve. I could and do ride lively boards but I need to go slower to observe and mitigate the terrain. High speed I prefer damp.


----------



## Snowdaddy

Kijima said:


> I fail to see your logic. Feel free to elaborate


In a triangle truss construction there are three joints or nodes. in your leg triangle there are 6 nodes. You might be strong enough to make a triangle with your legs and counter the forces on your board by pressing your knees out. Many of us aren't. 



MCrides said:


> I don't think this is clicking for me either. A bridge is supported from above, sure, but it's also shaped like an arch just like a stiff, cambered snowboard to give support from below.
> 
> In my mind the purpose of a stiff board is to offer resistance to the pressure your legs are putting against it. The stiffer the board, the more pressure you can apply without the board giving way, allowing for faster, more aggressive carving.
> 
> Of course it's _possible_ to carve a soft board, and of course a stiffer snowboard can be limiting in other ways, but I'm not grokking how I can replace that stiffness at will by pressing my legs outward.


A Heinlein fan!


----------



## MCrides

Snowdaddy said:


> A Heinlein fan!


Eh? Never read any Heinlein.


----------



## Snowdaddy

MCrides said:


> Eh? Never read any Heinlein.


It's from the book Stranger in a Strange Land. I didn't realize it was something widely used.



MCrides said:


> but I'm not grokking


----------



## timmytard

Kijima said:


> I used to ride stiff boards, I would hunt out the stiffest boots and bindings. I believed I needed that for fast, hard riding. I was totally wrong. Now I ride faster and harder, with much better form, on soft forgiving snowboards.
> So how do I manage this when all available experience tells us we need stiff unforgiving gear if we want to charge hard?
> The answer is that I the rider, am the deliverer of stiffness to my snowboard.
> 
> A bridge over a river is supported by the structure above or below it. The flat road itself is not enough, so engineers design bracing usually in triangle shapes as they are very strong.
> Our snowboard is the road, our body is the bracing. Our body is the primary stiffener of our snowboard yet most of us stand on our boards without taking advantage of this fact.
> 
> A boxer stands in the ring with his muscles all pumped up, his body as stiff as he can make it for the task he is about to tackle. When he gets hit he is ready for it. He was waiting for it, expecting it.
> On a snowboard you can add stiffness with the enormous triangle that you form when you stand on your board. Push your front foot forward and your back foot back into your bindings to become stiff when YOU choose to rather than nursing a stiff board around all day just to ach
> Hahahahis is all I could think of the whole time I read that.





Kijima said:


> I used to ride stiff boards, I would hunt out the stiffest boots and bindings. I believed I needed that for fast, hard riding. I was totally wrong. Now I ride faster and harder, with much better form, on soft forgiving snowboards.
> So how do I manage this when all available experience tells us we need stiff unforgiving gear if we want to charge hard?
> The answer is that I the rider, am the deliverer of stiffness to my snowboard.
> 
> A bridge over a river is supported by the structure above or below it. The flat road itself is not enough, so engineers design bracing usually in triangle shapes as they are very strong.
> Our snowboard is the road, our body is the bracing. Our body is the primary stiffener of our snowboard yet most of us stand on our boards without taking advantage of this fact.
> 
> A boxer stands in the ring with his muscles all pumped up, his body as stiff as he can make it for the task he is about to tackle. When he gets hit he is ready for it. He was waiting for it, expecting it.
> On a snowboard you can add stiffness with the enormous triangle that you form when you stand on your board. Push your front foot forward and your back foot back into your bindings to become stiff when YOU choose to rather than nursing a stiff board around all day just to achieve the same end. ✌✌✌✌✌



This is all I could see as I read that.
The first 40 seconds hahaha





TT


----------



## Seppuccu

MCrides said:


> Eh? Never read any Heinlein.


Grok - Wikipedia


----------



## Paxford

Kijima said:


> I used to ride stiff boards, I would hunt out the stiffest boots and bindings. I believed I needed that for fast, hard riding. I was totally wrong. Now I ride faster and harder, with much better form, on soft forgiving snowboards.
> So how do I manage this when all available experience tells us we need stiff unforgiving gear if we want to charge hard?
> The answer is that I the rider, am the deliverer of stiffness to my snowboard.
> 
> A bridge over a river is supported by the structure above or below it. The flat road itself is not enough, so engineers design bracing usually in triangle shapes as they are very strong.
> Our snowboard is the road, our body is the bracing. Our body is the primary stiffener of our snowboard yet most of us stand on our boards without taking advantage of this fact.
> 
> A boxer stands in the ring with his muscles all pumped up, his body as stiff as he can make it for the task he is about to tackle. When he gets hit he is ready for it. He was waiting for it, expecting it.
> On a snowboard you can add stiffness with the enormous triangle that you form when you stand on your board. Push your front foot forward and your back foot back into your bindings to become stiff when YOU choose to rather than nursing a stiff board around all day just to achieve the same end. ✌✌✌✌✌


I'd call this being dynamic. A dynamic rider with excellent board control can overcome edge hold concerns on a loose board, a shortboard, hell, they can knock the legs off the kitchen table and ride it down the mountain. Doesn't mean it's the best tool for the job though. And there is a limit that not even a good rider can overcome when the terrain turns gnarly.

Kajima, I think you are in the process of finding yourself as a rider, but you haven't reached the end, and you are riding in good conditions, relatively speaking. Try taking your board to the US and riding it all over for 50 days regardless of terrain and conditions. I think you will find it doesn't work consistently. Your perfect tight radius C turns will start to fall apart as the terrain and ice gets gnarly.

I agree consumers chase stiffer planks when they are often unnecessary and at times detrimental. Kind of like a person who says I want the bestest fastest coolest most expensive gotta be the best car so I'm buying a Ferrari. Just plain stupid IMO but they get to pull up to the lodge with it and feel better about themselves. It's clear you don't need a plank for the conditions you ride. But there are riders with skill like yourself and then some, who've figured out what riding is really about, who do not want to ride a short effective edge C carver board in ice and steeps. Can they do it? Yes, but it's tough sledding. So there is good reason for having a quiver. Check out this explanation of effective edge-


----------



## lbs123

Paxford said:


> who do not want to ride a short effective edge C carver board in ice and steeps. Can they do it? Yes, but it's tough sledding. So there is good reason for having a quiver. Check out this explanation of effective edge-


This and flatground tricks are why I prefer green runs (or blue ones according European rating). I would say anything above 25% slope gradient (14 degrees) is hard to carve on an average board. The number may vary for you but even Ryan Knapton admits it's almost impossible to carve on steeper terrain.

Interesting video, btw., I've never realized skiers have 3 times longer effective edge, just the obvious 2 vs 1 edge comparison.


----------



## Snowdaddy

I had a chat with Mats at Stranda snowboards. From what I remember his philosophy was that a long soft board with a long effective edge and a long turning radius can be flexed into a shorter turning radius when you want to, and still have the longer radius for more drawn out turns. But then he's also made the boards with a shorter sidecut radius as well.

Personally, without being a board designer, I don't think there's a simple right or wrong in bord design.


----------



## MCrides

Seppuccu said:


> Grok - Wikipedia


It's funny, I use the term all the time and had no idea where it came from until now.


----------



## MrDavey2Shoes

Snowdaddy said:


> I had a chat with Mats at Stranda snowboards. From what I remember his philosophy was that a long soft board with a long effective edge and a long turning radius can be flexed into a shorter turning radius when you want to, and still have the longer radius for more drawn out turns. But then he's also made the boards with a shorter sidecut radius as well.
> 
> Personally, without being a board designer, I don't think there's a simple right or wrong in bord design.


While I don’t have any boards with Standa proportions I can say this 100% is the truth. Centerflex a board and you get a tighter radius.


----------



## F1EA

I wish I was Japanese


----------



## Paxford

Snowdaddy said:


> I had a chat with Mats at Stranda snowboards. From what I remember his philosophy was that a long soft board with a long effective edge and a long turning radius can be flexed into a shorter turning radius when you want to, and still have the longer radius for more drawn out turns. But then he's also made the boards with a shorter sidecut radius as well.
> 
> Personally, without being a board designer, I don't think there's a simple right or wrong in bord design.


There is right and wrong for the conditions and the rider. But I agree the answer isn’t simple. If you haven’t already check out Jeremy Jones series on building up a quiver. The sheer volume of boards in the market can make your head spin. JJ does a good job simplifying the process of selecting the right board for you and the conditions you plan to ride in.


----------



## neni

F1EA said:


> I wish I was Japanese


Oh man, yes, I remenber those seemingly endless and empty perfect groomers! 
We have about 200 yards of something alike. Would love to ride stuff like that more often!


----------



## F1EA

neni said:


> Oh man, yes, I remenber those seemingly endless and empty perfect groomers!
> We have about 200 yards of something alike. Would love to ride stuff like that more often!


Yeah that's a beauty.

I guess, maybe... on a not-so-busy weekday, we can score a few early runs close to this. But it would be a rare sight, specially with such good snow. 

Going to make it a goal this season, to get an uncrowded smooth groomer day...


----------



## WigMar

F1EA said:


> Yeah that's a beauty.
> 
> I guess, maybe... on a not-so-busy weekday, we can score a few early runs close to this. But it would be a rare sight, specially with such good snow.
> 
> Going to make it a goal this season, to get an uncrowded smooth groomer day...


You can squeeze in moments like this when you're in line for the chairs before they start moving. All the Jerrys are still getting themselves in order while you've got the whole mountain to yourself. Maybe this is just Colorado spoiling me though. I've wondered if those Japanese videos are shot right before the resort opens. You can hike up and do sunrise laps around here. 

After a lap or three... those sweeping carves are just a beautiful memory as if from a dream. It's a pretty short window that I wish I got to warm up for.


----------



## F1EA

WigMar said:


> You can squeeze in moments like this when you're in line for the chairs before they start moving. All the Jerrys are still getting themselves in order while you've got the whole mountain to yourself. Maybe this is just Colorado spoiling me though. I've wondered if those Japanese videos are shot right before the resort opens. You can hike up and do sunrise laps around here.
> 
> After a lap or three... those sweeping carves are just a beautiful memory as if from a dream. It's a pretty short window that I wish I got to warm up for.


Where do you ride in CO?

I rode Vail, Breck and Keystone earlier this yr (in Jan) and it was crowded from the get-go. We rode mostly weekdays and a Sat. The lines are a lot shorter than Whistler, but the runs were more crowded. At least you can choose between a few resorts.... but the highway traffic. Holy hell... that's a shit-show.

So for a lonely day like this... need to go on a weekday, early and maybe to one of the not so popular resorts.

Those Japan are probably early, but that could be a not crowded resort..... you can find that in the BC interior as well. A few of the interior resorts can have clean groomers all day with good snow. Won't be perfect like that video all day... but at least enough for a few runs.


----------



## JDA

Japan is full of empty resorts like that, its only on weekends you get some crowds but even then its relatively empty.


----------



## WigMar

F1EA said:


> Where do you ride in CO?
> 
> I rode Vail, Breck and Keystone earlier this yr (in Jan) and it was crowded from the get-go. We rode mostly weekdays and a Sat. The lines are a lot shorter than Whistler, but the runs were more crowded. At least you can choose between a few resorts.... but the highway traffic. Holy hell... that's a shit-show.
> 
> So for a lonely day like this... need to go on a weekday, early and maybe to one of the not so popular resorts.
> 
> Those Japan are probably early, but that could be a not crowded resort..... you can find that in the BC interior as well. A few of the interior resorts can have clean groomers all day with good snow. Won't be perfect like that video all day... but at least enough for a few runs.


Weekday mornings for sure- haven't rode a weekend in Summit County in years. Gotta know which runs to hit right out of the gate. There's runs at Keystone that feel like a secret sometimes. Vail has an order you have to hit runs in if you want those empty groomers. But yeah, Summit County isn't great for those uncrowded runs. Gotta be an early bird armed with the knowledge of locals to even get a few of those in. 

I'd like to see the drive up to those Japanese resorts too. Traffic on 1-70 up from Denver isn't ideal. Leaving really early helps, but they're always shutting down the roadway. Sometimes we can't get up there when the snow is really good. First world problems.


----------



## Kijima

Excuses excuses lol.

Im just a 41 year old man riding a snowboard like you lot, but thinking about it in a different way. 
Its obvious the forum locals dont enjoy my efforts though which is unfortunate but I push on regardless. Fuelled by haters I guess you could say. Keep it coming. ✌✌✌??


----------



## Kijima

JDA said:


> Japan is full of empty resorts like that, its only on weekends you get some crowds but even then its relatively empty.


I just rode 8.30 to 12.00 with less than 20 others.


----------



## Kijima

One of the main haters has actually been and stayed at my house on both her Japan trips.
We were both trying to learn this last feb were we not?
Why the neg vibes?


----------



## Seppuccu

Hate? What hate?


----------



## lbs123

I don't see much hate in this thread either, just different opinions. I've been following it since beginning and am genuinely interested in the method, but until we see some footage it's more an academic discussion.


----------



## lbs123

F1EA said:


> I wish I was Japanese


The reason I prefer Japanese carving over Ryan Knapton's (except that I like Japanese style more) is that they don't always do these craze wide carves for which you need big empty groomers. One of my favorite Toy Films rides is here at 5:55 - a crowded groomer, yet rhythm, dynamics, style


----------



## Kijima

Academic discussion for sure. That's what makes better snowboarders. 

All my work on the long board combined with 40 half days on snow in the worst season on record in japan. 
Resort opening, then closing, then opening again after a 20cm snowfall etc. Dodging rocks and dirt everywhere. 
That's how I spent my 40 days on snow. It's been far from perfect conditions across all of japan.

I have been in no rush to post vids. 
I have only filmed 1 turn all season in fact. 
My ego doesn't need the stroking lol.

I am ready to film now, but in no rush and as I ride alone 99% of the time there's nobody to hold the sony a6000 on the gimbal I have waiting to do the job with. 
It won't be a half assed movie when I make it but watching it won't make anyone a better snowboarder, Academic discussion on the other hand will. ?

FWIW im not into throwing myself onto the snow, more hovering 1cm above it. ???


----------



## neni

Huh? No hate at all, on contrary. If I ever gave you that impression, I'm sorry!

I had one of my biggest "aha!" moments that Feb riding with you, comparing pictures, comparing riding, exersising on those beautiful wide groomers, which has improved my riding tremendously. I ever since introduce my toe edge carves with a dolfin in mind and see? Now I get the timing right. That's not hate, that's love .

I haven't comented on the later posts, because I cannot follow. To me, it's only theory, as I lack the opportunity to try to reproduce your way. You continued your learning journey with short-edge long-radius boards, which are out of my experience level. Iirc you built the first of those after we left, so I couldn't try one, which is a pity, as I'm curious. They are so very opposite of what I'm used to ride (long and narrow) that I cannot imagine how such a paradigm change would feel like; I would have to ride one to feel it . 
Btw: after reading your posts, I actually tried to get close to the experience by trying the Hovy - widest shortest with biggest radius I own - on groomers, but it was no fun as my damaged foot complained heavily about the strain; but I assume that the Hovy is nowhere close to the specs which your new boards have. So I'm in the dark about how a well fitting short-edge long-radius board would feel like and change ones riding, and thus silently follow your journey until I can ride such a board myself and experience and understand what you already learned/feel riding them.


----------



## supern00b

I like this thread. Heading up to Killington, VT this weekend so these tips are all super inspiring.


----------



## Paxford

Kijima said:


> Excuses excuses lol.
> 
> Im just a 41 year old man riding a snowboard like you lot, but thinking about it in a different way.
> Its obvious the forum locals dont enjoy my efforts though which is unfortunate but I push on regardless. Fuelled by haters I guess you could say. Keep it coming. [emoji111][emoji111][emoji111][emoji694][emoji694]


No hate here. We are on a similar journey. And it is VERY opposite of the forum at-large. 

My short effective edge isn’t cutting it some days for the conditions I ride. Hope that didn’t come off as hate of your boards, my intent was to further the academic discussion about board design. I think there is a place for long effective edge at times, and I agree with you ... most think they need it when they don’t. I think they need to learn to ride correctly to realize that.


----------



## Kijima

This is my hip movement map. The hips slowly oscillate around the head, completing a full 360 degree loop over the top of a heel turn/toe turn set. Natural riders rotate counter clockwise. Goofy riders rotate clockwise. Training with a hula hoop would be very effective.

Snowboarding hip movement map


http://imgur.com/a/cEE8KXS


----------



## Seppuccu

Hm. Are you sure about this? I usually think of it as a "soggy 8" (works in 3 dimensions!). See pic. But ofc I might be wrong; granted, I'm not an advanced rider...


----------



## BoardieK

Seppuccu: I think you are on the right track about this, in theory, except that the vast majority of riders will move their head further forwards than their hips whilst on a toeside turn. The exception would be shallow to medium carving and performing a "soul arch" toeside turn, something rarely seen surfing let alone snowboarding.


----------



## Kijima

Seppuccu said:


> Hm. Are you sure about this? I usually think of it as a "soggy 8" (works in 3 dimensions!). See pic. But ofc I might be wrong; granted, I'm not an advanced rider...


Dude! Firstly thanks for thinking about it! 
So what you drew there makes perfect sense and its exactly how my thought process was until this morning. I was riding a chair and mentally reviewing my notes from yesterday. 
One of my findings has been that everything in snowboarding is a circle. You cannot move your body from A to B in a straight line, you must find a circular way to get there. 

Ive been trying to tuck my bum in as I flip to the toe edge, its easy at slower speeds but in a deep carve its hard work to overcome the centrifugal force. 
So i simply let that heel side flow continue around into a full circle. That brought my bum in easily as my head did not need to rise against the force of the turn. 
So now the side of my hip is close to the snow throughout the toe turn, Im actually leaving my lower body set up for a heel turn throughout the entirity of my toe turn which puts me in a very powerful position when the next heel turn comes around.


----------



## Kijima

Turns are a set of 2.
Heel turn is 70% of your effort.
Toe turn 30%. 
Hips do one big circle per set of turns.


----------



## Kijima

If you look at the map, where the heel turn starts, see how your hips coming back in lines up with the timing for the front knee to open.


----------



## Kijima

Seppuccu said:


> Hm. Are you sure about this? I usually think of it as a "soggy 8" (works in 3 dimensions!). See pic. But ofc I might be wrong; granted, I'm not an advanced rider...


I've been thinking about this for a few hours and the best answer I can give is that it gives too much energy to the toe turn at 50/50 split.

The heel requires more, I'm saying 70/30 energy split, but it gives you the first half of the toe turn for free as you naturally unwind.

The whole thing might end up the hula hoop method lol.
Hula hoop + knee open at the start of the heel turn = guarenteed clean turns. 
I have two arm movements to lay over the top now.


----------



## Kijima

Updated hip movement map


http://imgur.com/a/CEdlw2L


That orange section is seriously driving the hips into the turn.


----------



## Kijima

Updated hip movement map


http://imgur.com/a/CEdlw2L


That orange section is seriously driving the hips into the turn.


----------



## Kijima

Updated hip movement map


http://imgur.com/a/CEdlw2L


That orange section is seriously driving the hips into the toe turn. It may be my biggest oddball finding so far lol.


----------



## MCrides

Wouldn't this require your weight to be over your rear foot when initiating a toeside turn?


----------



## MrDavey2Shoes

This seems like it would cause the board to steer under foot more than at the contact points, are you riding something flat or rocketed? I forgot what the profile of your board is.


----------



## Seppuccu

BoardieK said:


> Seppuccu: I think you are on the right track about this, in theory, except that the vast majority of riders will move their head further forwards than their hips whilst on a toeside turn. The exception would be shallow to medium carving and performing a "soul arch" toeside turn, something rarely seen surfing let alone snowboarding.


I was perhaps more thinking of the COG moving than just the hips and the head standing still in the middle - but you are right. With deeper aggressive carves it becoms more difficult to uphold, especially for tall dudes like me and Kijima...although I'm sure Mikkel Bang would be able to soul arch the shit out of it, felt he inclined to do so. 


Kijima said:


> Updated hip movement map
> 
> 
> http://imgur.com/a/CEdlw2L
> 
> 
> That orange section is seriously driving the hips into the toe turn. It may be my biggest oddball finding so far lol.


Guess I will have to try it out on Sunday.


----------



## Mig Fullbag

The whole figure 8 center of gravity / hip movement / weight transfer is how snowboard carving has been taught since the early 90s. And the front knee drive into the turn (heelside and toeside) is still a big thing in alpine (hardboot) carving. It's pretty cool to see how you guys are coming up to those same conclusions based on your own experimenting.


----------



## Seppuccu

That's a very nice way of telling us we're just inventing the wheel all over again.


----------



## Mig Fullbag

Seppuccu said:


> That's a very nice way of telling us we're just inventing the wheel all over again.


 Haaa! Haa! Ha! Just thought it was cool to see you guys come to those same conclusions by your own experimentations. Carving got trendy in the last few years and might seem new to most "younger" riders, but it's been around since the late 80s. ​


----------



## Kijima

MrDavey2Shoes said:


> This seems like it would cause the board to steer under foot more than at the contact points, are you riding something flat or rocketed? I forgot what the profile of your board is.


Don't put the board in fisrt place, it's a passenger.


----------



## Kijima

Mig Fullbag said:


> The whole figure 8 center of gravity / hip movement / weight transfer is how snowboard carving has been taught since the early 90s. And the front knee drive into the turn (heelside and toeside) is still a big thing in alpine (hardboot) carving. It's pretty cool to see how you guys are coming up to those same conclusions based on your own experimenting.





Mig Fullbag said:


> Haaa! Haa! Ha! Just thought it was cool to see you guys come to those same conclusions by your own experimentations. Carving got trendy in the last few years and might seem new to most "younger" riders, but it's been around since the late 80s.





Mig Fullbag said:


> Haaa! Haa! Ha! Just thought it was cool to see you guys come to those same conclusions by your own experimentations. Carving got trendy in the last few years and might seem new to most "younger" riders, but it's been around since the late 80s.


So which one are we refinding? Figure 8 or hula hoop?
They are polar opposites, Im saying burn the figure 8 way, its wrong.


----------



## Kijima

MCrides said:


> Wouldn't this require your weight to be over your rear foot when initiating a toeside turn?


The first part happens as a natural unwind from the heel turn. 
For some reason it does not require more forward weight.


----------



## t21

I'm just curious when are we going to see all this experimentation in actual riding video? Is this more like a japanese style carving like the "toy films" but smoother or what? I apologize if i sound like being an ass but i am interested about this method but it's been 12 pages and all i see is sketches of turns


----------



## Kijima

Soon enough. Im finding a method not video blogging, please adjust expectations of media consumption, you wont get much from me. 
Im on a chair now, 2 runs in and the hula hoop method is pure fire. 
Figure 8 is dead ❤❤❤✌✌✌


----------



## MrDavey2Shoes

Kijima said:


> Don't put the board in fisrt place, it's a passenger.


...so yes?

I’m not disagreeing with your theories toward carving. Reason I ask is different boards behave differently. That’s not an opinion. So different movements will affect different boards differently. The board is the variable not the movements.

I think a better relationship than driver/ car/ trailer would be a person riding a bicycle. You are the driver and the engine and the bike is the machine. You can can “do” most things on most bikes but they behave better when the driver adapts to it’s inherent behaviors.


----------



## Kijima

MrDavey2Shoes said:


> ...so yes?
> 
> I’m not disagreeing with your theories toward carving. Reason I ask is different boards behave differently. That’s not an opinion. So different movements will affect different boards differently. The board is the variable not the movements.
> 
> I think a better relationship than driver/ car/ trailer would be a person riding a bicycle. You are the driver and the engine and the bike is the machine. You can can “do” most things on most bikes but they behave better when the driver adapts to it’s inherent behaviors.


I appreciate you thinking about it, seriously thinking about snowboarding IS how you get better at it.

So to reply to the camber/rocker question. Both camber and rocker only exist on an unweighted, flat board, as soon as the board is weighted or tilted both of those board characteristics are over ruled by sidecut depth.
A board will flex into a rocker shape during the turn, the smaller the radius the more it will flex, the longer the edge the more it will flex.

My snowboard could be rocker or camber and I wouldn't care either way but what I really care about is sidecut depth and its fluid relationship with sidecut radii/edge length as they have a big influence over how my board rides at high edge angles


----------



## Kijima

I'm home now for lunch, I rode all morning in the rain with a huge smile on my face from how enjoyable it was to ride the hula hoop method. 
It has really tucked in my butt on toe side deep carves and works incredibly well at speed generation on the flats. 
It feels pretty damn slinky and stylish too ???


----------



## MCrides

Kijima said:


> The first part happens as a natural unwind from the heel turn.
> For some reason it does not require more forward weight.


I don't understand what you're saying here. What is "the first part"?


----------



## Kijima

MCrides said:


> I don't understand what you're saying here. What is "the first part"?


The first part of the toe turn happens purely as an unwind from the heel turn. It's not necessary to weight the nose during this phase of the turn since we don't need to force the turn, in fact it is hard to stop the toe turn from starting after a perfect heel turn completion.
I think this is how I completely got around the problem of needing to be forward at the start of a toe turn when the hula hoop method has you a the back.
Switched on peeps identified a theoretical problem there but in the real world it's no problem at all, it's actually a speed generator.


----------



## MCrides

Kijima said:


> The first part of the toe turn happens purely as an unwind from the heel turn. It's not necessary to weight the nose during this phase of the turn since we don't need to force the turn, in fact it is hard to stop the toe turn from starting after a perfect heel turn completion.


This is at odds with my experience on a snowboard, but for the sake of discussion, let's say I'm wrong about the beginning part of the turn. Isn't there still the end of the turn to worry about? 

The hula hoop method means, while carving on my toe edge, I'm shifting my weight from aft to fore as the turn progresses, right? In that case, compared to figure 8, I'd have less pressure on the rear contact point when it was most needed: at the point in a turn where all the forces a carved turn is acting against come together and the edge is the most at risk of washing out. 

So even if you _can_ initiate a turn that way, I don't see what the advantage is. You'll be artificially limiting how hard you can rail a toe edge carve in order to gain... what?


----------



## Kijima

MCrides said:


> This is at odds with my experience on a snowboard, but for the sake of discussion, let's say I'm wrong about the beginning part of the turn. Isn't there still the end of the turn to worry about?
> 
> The hula hoop method means, while carving on my toe edge, I'm shifting my weight from aft to fore as the turn progresses, right? In that case, compared to figure 8, I'd have less pressure on the rear contact point when it was most needed: at the point in a turn where all the forces a carved turn is acting against come together and the edge is the most at risk of washing out.
> 
> So even if you _can_ initiate a turn that way, I don't see what the advantage is. You'll be artificially limiting how hard you can rail a toe edge carve in order to gain... what?


Your thought processes are sound for individual turns. 
I have combined 2 turns into a set which allows me to drop this big slow hip rotation over the set of turns. 
It just works.


----------



## Kijima

The people who are challenging this logic are the ones who I know are thinking strongly about snowboarding.
You guys are the ones that will get it when you try it. ✌✌✌

Don't stop challenging existing concepts, even mine.


----------



## Seppuccu

MCrides said:


> The hula hoop method means, while carving on my toe edge, I'm shifting my weight from aft to fore as the turn progresses, right? In that case, compared to figure 8, I'd have less pressure on the rear contact point when it was most needed: at the point in a turn where all the forces a carved turn is acting against come together and the edge is the most at risk of washing out.


These were my thoughts exactly.



MCrides said:


> So even if you _can_ initiate a turn that way, I don't see what the advantage is. You'll be artificially limiting how hard you can rail a toe edge carve in order to gain... what?


A better heelside turn, which is the problem that most snowboarders have. I suppose. If one is to believe Niel McNab, most snowboarders have a problem in linking the finish of the toeside turn and the beginning of the heelside turn, and Kijima's concept might, counter-intuitively, help with that.

Also: The more I'm thinking about it the more I think the "hula hoop" might not be evenly paced throughout the circle, and it's probably not as big toeside as heelside.


----------



## Kijima

I am only 24 hours down this particular rabbit hole so I myself am not an expert just yet.
On the flats I was doing it with even pace and generating amazing speed.
For the lay down turns I think the 2 critical points are knee open and the start of hips driving.


----------



## Kijima

My buddy is coming up on saturday to film. 
You guys get out the popcorn, Ill put on my knights armour and release a quick edit of a few turns lol.


----------



## Seppuccu

Kijima said:


> My buddy is coming up on saturday to film.
> You guys get out the popcorn, Ill put on my knights armour and release a quick edit of a few turns lol.


You should get one of those silly bird-view head mounted pole cameras so we can study your hula-hoop movement.


----------



## bazman

Kijima said:


> My buddy is coming up on saturday to film.
> You guys get out the popcorn, Ill put on my knights armour and release a quick edit of a few turns lol.


I struggle with visualisation so am looking forward to seeing the vids


----------



## wrathfuldeity

We need close up footy of the hip movement...well maybe not :O


----------



## Paxford

Kijima said:


> Updated hip movement map
> 
> 
> http://imgur.com/a/CEdlw2L
> 
> 
> That orange section is seriously driving the hips into the toe turn. It may be my biggest oddball finding so far lol.


You lost me here. Could you elaborate on that orange section? How are you driving the hips in to the toe turn? Where are the hips at that moment?


----------



## ZeMax

Paxford said:


> You lost me here. Could you elaborate on that orange section? How are you driving the hips in to the toe turn? Where are the hips at that moment?


My instructor says: you need to F***k the turn on toe side.


----------



## MCrides

Seppuccu said:


> A better heelside turn, which is the problem that most snowboarders have. I suppose. If one is to believe Niel McNab, most snowboarders have a problem in linking the finish of the toeside turn and the beginning of the heelside turn, and Kijima's concept might, counter-intuitively, help with that.


This always stands out to me when I watch other riders. Even the ones who have no trouble engaging their downhill edge switching from heel to toe struggle on the other side. They disengage the toe edge, passively let the board rotate towards the fall line, and _then_ get on their heel edge. And I'm saying "they," but I'm sure if you filmed me you'd see some unevenness there. I think it's a combination of less leverage and a mental block sine your back is facing downhill.

Still, I'm not sure how the hula hoop helps with that, since the heel side turn is the one that matches up with figure 8.


----------



## MrDavey2Shoes

@Kijima The more I think about the more the hula hoop makes sense. I think my issue with it is that I’m having trouble picturing it. By that I mean I took your map to mean a physical location in movement. Now I’m viewing it as a weight transfer...I believe I in fact already use movements similar to your map. In my head it’s just a different image. My mental imagery is more of weighting corners on a square through a circular movement. I will be trying your map out over the weekend and be more present in thought (although I find when I ride “less is more” in terms of thinking through my turns). My next question is what turn shapes are you going for here and what type of trail are you executing this on? To me I see nice C carves that need some room/time to complete and properly link. Obviously that isn’t going to work on all pitch and trail widths, no? If what your saying is what I’m now thinking then turns out not only do I mostly agree - but we’re talking about my favorite turns!


----------



## Bob F

MCrides said:


> I don't think this is clicking for me either. A bridge is supported from above, sure, but it's also shaped like an arch just like a stiff, cambered snowboard to give support from below.
> 
> In my mind the purpose of a stiff board is to offer resistance to the pressure your legs are putting against it. The stiffer the board, the more pressure you can apply without the board giving way, allowing for faster, more aggressive carving.
> 
> Of course it's _possible_ to carve a soft board, and of course a stiffer snowboard can be limiting in other ways, but I'm not grokking how I can replace that stiffness at will by pressing my legs outward.


Pushing your knees apart effectively increases the camber of the board, increasing the grip at the ends of the edges by applying more pressure there just like the board being stiffer would do.. Similarly, pulling your knees together will decrease the camber, allowing better float in deep snow.


----------



## MCrides

Bob F said:


> Pushing your knees apart effectively increases the camber of the board, increasing the grip at the ends of the edges by applying more pressure there just like the board being stiffer would do.. Similarly, pulling your knees together will decrease the camber, allowing better float in deep snow.


What if I need to use my knees to control the board in other ways, like rotating my front knee inwards as I transition into a toe side carve? And anyway, depth of camber and stiffness of the board are two different things; Kijima has said in this thread that camber vs rocker makes no difference to him, so I don’t think this is what he means.


----------



## Bob F

MCrides said:


> I don't think this is clicking for me either. A bridge is supported from above, sure, but it's also shaped like an arch just like a stiff, cambered snowboard to give support from below.
> 
> In my mind the purpose of a stiff board is to offer resistance to the pressure your legs are putting against it. The stiffer the board, the more pressure you can apply without the board giving way, allowing for faster, more aggressive carving.
> 
> Of course it's _possible_ to carve a soft board, and of course a stiffer snowboard can be limiting in other ways, but I'm not grokking how I can replace that stiffness at will by pressing my legs outward.


My thought is that the stiffer the board, the more pressure can be applied at at the ends of the edge, resulting in more even pressure though its arc.


----------



## Kijima

MCrides said:


> This always stands out to me when I watch other riders. Even the ones who have no trouble engaging their downhill edge switching from heel to toe struggle on the other side. They disengage the toe edge, passively let the board rotate towards the fall line, and _then_ get on their heel edge. And I'm saying "they," but I'm sure if you filmed me you'd see some unevenness there. I think it's a combination of less leverage and a mental block sine your back is facing downhill.
> 
> Still, I'm not sure how the hula hoop helps with that, since the heel side turn is the one that matches up with figure 8.


The reason it is brutally effective heel side is because you enter the turn with all your momentum aligned for your new direction of travel. 
The heel turn can be controlled easily and fully completed leaving you in a beautifully set up position for the next toe turn. 
Now we move the complete "wrong" way throughout the middle part of the toe turn and it feels amazing, gets your hip and knee on the snow while your hands are free and sets you up, again, perfectly, for the next heel turn.


----------



## 16gkid

t21 said:


> I'm just curious when are we going to see all this experimentation in actual riding video? Is this more like a japanese style carving like the "toy films" but smoother or what? I apologize if i sound like being an ass but i am interested about this method but it's been 12 pages and all i see is sketches of turns


It's 2020 and dude can't find anyone to shoot a 20 sec clip going down a run?


----------



## MCrides

Kijima said:


> The reason it is brutally effective heel side is because you enter the turn with all your momentum aligned for your new direction of travel.


Sorry, but I don't understand what this means. I'm tapping out of this thread to wait for the video.


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## Jkb818

I better see a video of you wearing a hula hoop when u ride or I’m gonna be really disappointed! ?


----------



## Kijima

MCrides said:


> Sorry, but I don't understand what this means. I'm tapping out of this thread to wait for the video.


Ill have one more shot at explaining it. 
A racing line around a corner, the car starts wide, hits the apex and finishes wide. 
Starting a heel turn with your hips out there in the hula hoop position means they will swing in with correct timing. This makes your bum touch only at that sweet spot where g forces are at maximum.


----------



## Kijima

16gkid said:


> It's 2020 and dude can't find anyone to shoot a 20 sec clip going down a run?


When you move to another country, and to a ski hill no tourists go to, and ride week day mornings, you might end up with the same problem. Lol


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## Jkb818

Let’s start a Go fund me page for a selfie stick!


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## Paxford

MCrides said:


> Sorry, but I don't understand what this means. I'm tapping out of this thread to wait for the video.


Long version - I think this means *drive* the board into the heelside turn. Try and avoid just setting your heel edge then letting the board wrap around the arc of the turn while you are a static passenger on top and skidding along. 99% of riders. Instead place your body where it needs to be on your toeside to *drive* the board on edge into the heelside, then trim the heelside line so you carve and drive all the way through. 1% of riders.

Short version - Use your body to build your toeside momentum and transfer that power to your heelside.


----------



## Kijima

PAXFORD MY MAN ✌✌✌

You get it 100%


----------



## lbs123

Kijima said:


> When you move to another country, and to a ski hill no tourists go to, and ride week day mornings, you might end up with the same problem. Lol


Video is not only for us, but for you too. Have you already seen yourself using this method? Would you pursue it if it looks ridiculous? From my experience, riding that feels good, doesn't always have to look good. That's fine as you can enjoy snowboarding from early stages and don't have to be a pro to experience similar feelings. On the other hand, these good feelings can be deceiving as they can mask issues with technique and style. Anyway, I hope you're onto something that not only works and feels good, but also looks good.


----------



## Kijima

lbs123 said:


> Video is not only for us, but for you too. Have you already seen yourself using this method? Would you pursue it if it looks ridiculous? From my experience, riding that feels good, doesn't always have to look good. That's fine as you can enjoy snowboarding from early stages and don't have to be a pro to experience similar feelings. On the other hand, these good feelings can be deceiving as they can mask issues with technique and style. Anyway, I hope you're onto something that not only works and feels good, but also looks good.


I do have one short clip from feb 12, before I worked out the hula hoop method but I was 3/4 of the way there already.
I make mistakes that are very clear to me now as i have already corrected them.
I am currently editing it to highlight my mistakes and demonstrate the timing of the movements.
Hold tight. I'll try and get it uploaded tonight.


----------



## wrathfuldeity

Paxford said:


> Long version - I think this means *drive* the board into the heelside turn. Try and avoid just setting your heel edge then letting the board wrap around the arc of the turn while you are a static passenger on top and skidding along. 99% of riders. Instead place your body where it needs to be on your toeside to *drive* the board on edge into the heelside, then trim the heelside line so you carve and drive all the way through. 1% of riders.
> 
> Short version - Use your body to build your toeside momentum and transfer that power to your heelside.


WUT? Is this like doing a cross under carve?


----------



## WigMar

I'm also struggling with the hula hoop concept. The figure of eight seems to make sense because it's symmetrical. It seems like the hula hoop would have your weight transfer going backwards (from tail to nose) on toe side turns. Normally, my weight is going back to the nose when I'm changing edges... in a figure of eight pattern. I'd love to see this hula hoop technique in action!


----------



## MCrides

WigMar said:


> I'm also struggling with the hula hoop concept. The figure of eight seems to make sense because it's symmetrical. It seems like the hula hoop would have your weight transfer going backwards (from tail to nose) on toe side turns. Normally, my weight is going back to the nose when I'm changing edges... in a figure of eight pattern. I'd love to see this hula hoop technique in action!


Here's what I think Kijima is suggesting: moving from tail to nose as a toe side carve progresses is counterintuitive, but doesn't actually make as much of a negative difference as we think it would--probably because achieving a solid weight stack on toe side is much easier. In return for doing the toe side weight shift "backwards," we're rewarded with a more fluid, powerful weight transfer as we begin our heel side turn, which more than makes up for any loss on toe side.

@Kijima right or wrong?


----------



## Snowdaddy

WigMar said:


> I'm also struggling with the hula hoop concept. The figure of eight seems to make sense because it's symmetrical. It seems like the hula hoop would have your weight transfer going backwards (from tail to nose) on toe side turns. Normally, my weight is going back to the nose when I'm changing edges... in a figure of eight pattern. I'd love to see this hula hoop technique in action!


You could have a wildly asymmetrical board so that it would make sense using different weight distribution patterns for heel and toe side carves. Set back on heel side and set forward on toe side.

And asymmetrical torsion pattern ofc.

Edit: Or a pure twin ofc ... haha.


----------



## Bob F

wrathfuldeity said:


> WUT? Is this like doing a cross under carve?


That was my thought too.


----------



## Paxford

wrathfuldeity said:


> WUT? Is this like doing a cross under carve?


Yes it is like it, but with the additional element of way more G's in the turn you are trying to hold an edge on. Crossunder is fairly straight riding. Crossover is traversing and then switching directions, but your body and board want to keep going straight. You are going to skid. All stuff you know but sharing anyways for the peanut gallery.

You will skid, unless, you set your heel edge before the G's hit and your body is in position to drive the board into that heel edge AND forward through the turn. That's the trimming part. That's also the moment you see those Japanese dudes getting really low as they set up for and drive through the heelside carve (but after they stand up to unweight the board). I think we all do 75% of this process when we set up from toeside to an all out heelside slash. The difference is instead of slashing try to trim that edge. You need to have the right body positioning to do it and not let G's take over.


----------



## MrDavey2Shoes

That can’t be what he means....why not just say that to begin with? Over complication for the sake of it? Idk. Anyway most people who know how to carve are already doing that. Or at least way more than 1% of riders.


----------



## Kijima




----------



## Kijima

I have both turn completions sorted now with arm movements and the hula hoop gets the hips around into a toe friendly soul arch position rather than hunched at the waist which is far more important to me than the front to back weighting issue.

Another thing that is going on with the hula hoop method is easy speed generation, its like a rotary engine in its ability to add a bit of speed with every revolution of the hips giving you a perfect spot to push off.


----------



## MrDavey2Shoes

That groomer has me aroused.


----------



## Jkb818

Despite what u say are improvements needing to be made your turns look pretty badass to me! I want to try one of your boards.


----------



## Kijima

MrDavey2Shoes said:


> That groomer has me aroused.


Nobody touches the top because you have to hike up a bit so i get it in perfect condition all day long,


----------



## Kijima

Jkb818 said:


> Despite what u say are improvements needing to be made your turns look pretty badass to me! I want to try one of your boards.


Thanks mate. I should be able to get hula hoop footage tomoz.

So with each hip rotation there are two opportunities to increase your speed. Im pushing off my rear toe into a toe turn and pushing off my front heel in a heel turn.


----------



## Kijima

The two hand movements that I use to complete my turns are called "wax off" for the toe and "eagle wing" for the heel turn. 

Each turn is built of 3 easy body positions, simply learn the moves and connect them together. 
Heel is knee open, sit on the toilet, eagle wing.
Toe is knee in, soul arch, wax off.

Over the top of all that we have the hula hoop rotation. 

I believe we can all learn to do this, and Im going to do my best to make that happen. Dont fear it.


----------



## Seppuccu

Those arm movements are more or less what I've noticed Nicholas Wolken use a lot in his carves (see Yearning for Turning). I've been trying to emulate his riding a bit lately. Success has been moderate at best.


----------



## Kijima

Seppuccu said:


> Those arm movements are more or less what I've noticed Nicholas Wolken use a lot in his carves (see Yearning for Turning). I've been trying to emulate his riding a bit lately. Success has been moderate at best.


I find focusing on pectoralis major really helps with the last 20% of my turns.


----------



## Paxford

@MrDavey2Shoes

Wraith asked me a question and I answered him. These are hard concepts to explain. While drafting, I re-wrote my post above taking out "hands" and changing to "body position" because while I mostly use my hands to get to my body position, hands aren't always necessary for weighting, and sometimes they cause problems. So, I'm loving that Kijima recognized what "raising his hand" did to his toeside turn. 

@Kijima 

My go-to for style is Taylor Knox. I studied the video below a few years ago and it really helped me refine my motions. He dolphins, he drives through his edges, he flows, he pivots, he trims, he's dynamic, he gets low, and the use of his hands are very clear in this vid-






Hope this helps.


----------



## Paxford

MrDavey2Shoes said:


> That can’t be what he means....why not just say that to begin with? Over complication for the sake of it? Idk. Anyway most people who know how to carve are already doing that. Or at least way more than 1% of riders.


I'm sorry it's complicated for you. Read on ...






High vs Low cross over turns – Key Aspect Coaching Snowboard Blog







www.keyaspectscoaching.com





.


----------



## WigMar

Hula Hoop is live! I got it working with some over unders first. While it was different, it kinda felt natural too. It was nice not even trying to shoot my weight forward to initiate toe turns. Edge transitions were smooth. Soul arch felt different but good. Slashes were more explosive. Definitely something I'm going to have to research further. Stay radical Kijima.


----------



## Kijima

WigMar said:


> Hula Hoop is live! I got it working with some over unders first. While it was different, it kinda felt natural too. It was nice not even trying to shoot my weight forward to initiate toe turns. Edge transitions were smooth. Soul arch felt different but good. Slashes were more explosive. Definitely something I'm going to have to research further. Stay radical Kijima.


Thank you so much bro ❤❤


----------



## Kijima

I am preparing to film my first 2 runs this morning ???


----------



## MrDavey2Shoes

@Paxford you have it wrong, I don’t find it complicated at all. It’s very simple. Which was my point. No doubt @Kijima is on to something here and the results are really looking great but there are many ways to make “perfect” flowing carves. If you guys disagree with that then you’ve probably got the wrong hobby...


----------



## Kijima

Brainstorming atm. 
These turns start from the knee, middle out at the hip and finish with the arms. 
Upward flow.


----------



## Kijima

Dont worry who is right and who is wrong guys. Let people express their concepts without fear of ridicule or being wrong. 
Think family, not internet warriors.


----------



## Bob F

Paxford said:


> Yes it is like it, but with the additional element of way more G's in the turn you are trying to hold an edge on. Crossunder is fairly straight riding. Crossover is traversing and then switching directions, but your body and board want to keep going straight. You are going to skid. All stuff you know but sharing anyways for the peanut gallery.


Crossunder to me is a turn that involves down unweighting by bending the legs at the beginning of the turn as you edge the board to cross under your body, causing it to change edge as it does so. Then I press the board hard by extending my legs for the the whole turn, which noticeably accelerates the board with the added pressure increasing the force into the snow. That's where I get the extra G's. I'm not sure how this could be considered "straight riding"? It is not a skill I see many people use, but one I use much of the time.


----------



## Kijima

No refreeze over night meant it was not great for carving this morning unfortunately. 
I spent my time doing hula hoop drills, blasting past the hardbooters on my 142 short fat lol.


----------



## wrathfuldeity

Interesting stuff ya'll...still trying to absorb it. But I'm wondering about the hands/arms (btw reminds me of Craig Kelly's use of his hands and more of a short board surfing style). I get that it adds to the flow and adds to the body positioning. The but, with extended arms, it also slow you down especially when you are in terrain where need to do the "low cross overs" or where you do cross under carves/turns where the more compact you are, the better. Over the years, I've tried to become more compact because I can get a faster reaction out of the board. Then again it could very likely be...because I don't ride/nor have wide open perfect groomers to blast. Its fairly rare to wide open groomers that are groomed well and without folks. Just wondering about flying arms and if you can do the movements without the arms. 

This year have been working on carving without my hands/arms by "holding onto the cowboy buckle", getting low and then feathering the edges by pulling or extending my toes in the boots.


----------



## Bob F

wrathfuldeity said:


> Interesting stuff ya'll...still trying to absorb it. But I'm wondering about the hands/arms (btw reminds me of Craig Kelly's use of his hands and more of a short board surfing style). I get that it adds to the flow and adds to the body positioning. The but, with extended arms, it also slow you down especially when you are in terrain where need to do the "low cross overs" or where you do cross under carves/turns where the more compact you are, the better. Over the years, I've tried to become more compact because I can get a faster reaction out of the board. Then again it could very likely be...because I don't ride/nor have wide open perfect groomers to blast. Its fairly rare to wide open groomers that are groomed well and without folks. Just wondering about flying arms and if you can do the movements without the arms.
> 
> This year have been working on carving without my hands/arms by "holding onto the cowboy buckle", getting low and then feathering the edges by pulling or extending my toes in the boots.


It seems to me to be an aid to getting the rotational force of the feet into the turn in a simply taught manner and perhaps to break the habit of the final swing of the arms to whip the back of the board around. The same force can be accomplished by twisting the hips into the turn with the upper body staying aligned with the board, which is a quicker motion, The better motion might be applying the rotational twist at the front foot at the same time the front edge is lowered to start flexing the front of the board into the turn by lifting/dropping the toe, and the same motion using the back foot twist and edge as the board crosses the fall line.


----------



## t21

After watching the skateboarding guy (Taylor Knox) i tried to make my heelside carve more sharper/shorter by pushing my knee out and apply a bit of my hip with the turn,the edge would bite more and i'll hold that carve and push my back knee inside to get more edge hold until i have to switch.I also find out if i keep my back knee straight out but toe up it would work the same but, it feels more comfortable when my knee is push inside.


----------



## Kijima

t21 said:


> After watching the skateboarding guy (Taylor Knox) i tried to make my heelside carve more sharper/shorter by pushing my knee out and apply a bit of my hip with the turn,the edge would bite more and i'll hold that carve and push my back knee inside to get more edge hold until i have to switch.I also find out if i keep my back knee straight out but toe up it would work the same but, it feels more comfortable when my knee is push inside.


Steering by rear femur and preload from the waist fown are amazing tools.
The arms, or pectralis major if you read closer are for turn completion only. No need to wave arms around, pectoralis major will do the job for you without much fuss


----------



## t21

Kijima said:


> Steering by rear femur and preload from the waist fown are amazing tools.
> The arms, or pectralis major if you read closer are for turn completion only. No need to wave arms around, pectoralis major will do the job for you without much fuss


I normally keep my arms subtle on my side when carving,but when i know the snow is so good for carving,i extend my arms out and glide like a bird just because it feels good


----------



## Kijima

t21 said:


> I normally keep my arms subtle on my side when carving,but when i know the snow is so good for carving,i extend my arms out and glide like a bird just because it feels good


Beautiful ?. I start every run like a bird too lol. For the mindset it gives me 
I dare you to engage your front pec in the last 20% of a toe turn ??


----------



## MrDavey2Shoes

@Kijima 
Today I had some wide open groomers with hero snow. It was great. I put the hula hoop into effect and it was a good time. The biggest difference I notice over my default carving movements is during the beginning of the toe side turn. It’s much more of a snap feeling opposed to a lean in a drive feeling. The board transitions from the heel edge to the toe edge more abruptly. I’m not sure I’m satisfied with my description there but for now it will do lol. It almost feels like a Scandinavian flick. I’ve turned this way before but it was fun to intentionally switch between my default movement and the hula hoop movement and enjoy the different sensations I could generate. I’m definitely going to continue to play with this and add it into my riding.

I was out on my tapered directional cambered board which is “off the back foot” or “surfy”. I know you’re a believer that the board is the smallest piece in the puzzle and for the most part I agree - but I think having a shorter tail helps get the board over with your weight back. As for taper, jury is still out for me!


----------



## Kijima

Thanks for the feedback! 
It works for big turns and small turns too. If you try quick rotations with short turns its like dropping back a gear and hitting the loud pedal.


----------



## SennaBlast

Your starting with the hips thought is interesting. I found that engaging with the head at first in a linear motion through to the feet was a more effective way to get more fluid turns. I just feel unbalanced trying to go hips first.


----------



## Kijima

I actually start at the knee. I prompt a turn with my front knee, middle my turn from the hips and finish with the pectoralis major. 
I have three places I need to get to in each turn and the hula hoop methods gets me to them all with correct timing and without needing to think about it anymore. 
Simplification of process is important.


----------



## nickpapagiorgio

Kijima said:


> The two hand movements that I use to complete my turns are called "wax off" for the toe and "eagle wing" for the heel turn.
> 
> Each turn is built of 3 easy body positions, simply learn the moves and connect them together.
> Heel is knee open, sit on the toilet, eagle wing.
> Toe is knee in, soul arch, wax off.
> 
> Over the top of all that we have the hula hoop rotation.
> 
> I believe we can all learn to do this, and Im going to do my best to make that happen. Dont fear it.


The carves are looking awesome Kijima!

Could you explain more about the 'wax off' and 'eagle wing' hand movements?

Out if curiosity, what binding angles do you use?


----------



## Paxford

wrathfuldeity said:


> Interesting stuff ya'll...still trying to absorb it. But I'm wondering about the hands/arms (btw reminds me of Craig Kelly's use of his hands and more of a short board surfing style). I get that it adds to the flow and adds to the body positioning. The but, with extended arms, it also slow you down especially when you are in terrain where need to do the "low cross overs" or where you do cross under carves/turns where the more compact you are, the better. Over the years, I've tried to become more compact because I can get a faster reaction out of the board. Then again it could very likely be...because I don't ride/nor have wide open perfect groomers to blast. Its fairly rare to wide open groomers that are groomed well and without folks. Just wondering about flying arms and if you can do the movements without the arms.
> 
> This year have been working on carving without my hands/arms by "holding onto the cowboy buckle", getting low and then feathering the edges by pulling or extending my toes in the boots.


I agree, it's not always Craig Kelly time. Wind resistance is real. I shrink as much as possible. Hands aren't always necessary, you can weight properly other ways, but the hands add something extra to the weighting and the flow. I think of speed skaters putting their hands behind their back for the most part, but when it gets going the arms/hands come out.

One thing about the groomers, IMO on a crowded day the board matters. Boards that like low to medium speed and short radius carves keep your riding reasonable given the crowd. I like to think of it like how a sea otter or weasel moves through its environment. Shifty creatures that get low, turn on a dime, and thread the needle.


----------



## Scalpelman

Paxford said:


> My go-to for style is Taylor Knox. I studied the video below a few years ago and it really helped me refine my motions. He dolphins, he drives through his edges, he flows, he pivots, he trims, he's dynamic, he gets low, and the use of his hands are very clear in this vid-
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hope this helps.


This is what I try to emulate. I find that knee and shoulder initiation works for me. Look at his upper body. Shoulders and hands are leading the way to his flow.


----------



## Snowdaddy

Paxford said:


> One thing about the groomers, IMO on a crowded day the board matters. Boards that like low to medium speed and short radius carves keep your riding reasonable given the crowd. I like to think of it like how a sea otter or weasel moves through its environment. Shifty creatures that get low, turn on a dime, and thread the needle.


You mean we can't all just ride Skate Bananas? 

Edit: Or do you mean we should all ride Skate Bananas?


----------



## Paxford

Bob F said:


> Crossunder to me is a turn that involves down unweighting by bending the legs at the beginning of the turn as you edge the board to cross under your body, causing it to change edge as it does so. Then I press the board hard by extending my legs for the the whole turn, which noticeably accelerates the board with the added pressure increasing the force into the snow. That's where I get the extra G's. I'm not sure how this could be considered "straight riding"? It is not a skill I see many people use, but one I use much of the time.


Pick your line (PYL) crossunder-

Point A
(
)
(
)
(
Point B

PYL crossover-

Point A
(
\
\
\
\
\
) 
/
/
/
/
(
\
\
|
Point B

Notice the crossover path of travel isn't as straight as the crossunder path of travel.


----------



## Snowdaddy

About the hula hoop. It would make much more sense doing it the other way around.

I don't think all the other riders before this totally misunderstood how riding a snowboard should be done though and claiming those people don't know how to ride is a bit silly.

Even a fledgling snowboarder like me can appreciate how different boards ride. It's not the same riding my different snowboards even if the basic technique might be the same. How you weigh them during a turn isn't the same.

Personally I don't think I would methodically start my turn with weight on the back foot for one side only unless it was necessary because of snow conditions.

It would be pretty interesting to consider the flex pattern and sidecut for a board made to ride different on heel and toe side. Like the asymmetric boards we already have.


----------



## Paxford

Don't fear it? The video at the link below explains my perspective -









What You Never Knew You Were Missing From Life on a Snowboard


Aaron Lebowitz of Soul Motion Snowboards and Alex Yoder, pro rider for Japan's infamous Gentemstick snowboard brand, explain the critical experiences and...




www.tetongravity.com


----------



## Rip154

Paxford said:


> Don't fear it? The video at the link below explains my perspective -
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What You Never Knew You Were Missing From Life on a Snowboard
> 
> 
> Aaron Lebowitz of Soul Motion Snowboards and Alex Yoder, pro rider for Japan's infamous Gentemstick snowboard brand, explain the critical experiences and...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.tetongravity.com


Yoder says it well. Lebowitz was selling snowboards to skiers.


----------



## Paxford

Paxford said:


> Pick your line (PYL) crossunder-
> 
> Point A
> (
> )
> (
> )
> (
> Point B
> 
> PYL crossover-
> 
> Point A
> (
> \
> \
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> \
> \
> \
> )
> /
> /
> /
> /
> (
> \
> \
> |
> Point B
> 
> Notice the crossover path of travel isn't as straight as the crossunder path of travel.






Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Paxford

Paxford said:


> Pick your line (PYL) crossunder-
> 
> Point A
> (
> )
> (
> )
> (
> Point B
> 
> PYL crossover-
> 
> Point A
> (
> \
> \
> View attachment 153069
> 
> \
> \
> \
> )
> /
> /
> /
> /
> (
> \
> \
> |
> Point B
> 
> Notice the crossover path of travel isn't as straight as the crossunder path of travel.






Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Paxford

Paxford said:


> Pick your line (PYL) crossunder-
> 
> Point A
> (
> )
> (
> )
> (
> Point B
> 
> PYL crossover-
> 
> Point A
> (
> \
> \
> \
> \
> \
> )
> /
> /
> /
> /
> (
> \
> \
> |
> Point B
> 
> Notice the crossover path of travel isn't as straight as the crossunder path of travel.


Bob, the crossover path I drew with my keyboard didn’t translate over properly when posting. I’ll try and attach a pic ...


----------



## Crusty

Snowdaddy said:


> I don't think all the other riders before this totally misunderstood how riding a snowboard should be done though and claiming those people don't know how to ride is a bit silly.


Agree. Even in the video above. "People are bombing hills. Faster steeper harder. No one turns. That's what is missing from snowboarding today. If people just learned to turn they'd enjoy the turns and it's all about the turns but no one turns. Embrace the turn, maaaannnn."

Um, literally any snowborder who can carve or is learning to carve has actively embraced 'The Turn'. Maaannn.


----------



## Snowdaddy

Paxford said:


> Don't fear it? The video at the link below explains my perspective -
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What You Never Knew You Were Missing From Life on a Snowboard
> 
> 
> Aaron Lebowitz of Soul Motion Snowboards and Alex Yoder, pro rider for Japan's infamous Gentemstick snowboard brand, explain the critical experiences and...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.tetongravity.com


Fear what? Charging down the fall line? Turning? Either those people are living in their own little bubble or it's just sales talk.

You only need to look at the plethora of different types of snowboards to know how much choice you have in picking different boards and doing different riding styles.


----------



## Kijima

nickpapagiorgio said:


> The carves are looking awesome Kijima!
> 
> Could you explain more about the 'wax off' and 'eagle wing' hand movements?
> 
> Out if curiosity, what binding angles do you use?


Wax off and eagle wing will be in the tutorial video coming soon. Basically they are both pectorial engagement but the eagle wing is much bigger than wax off due to the heel turn being 70% of the riders effort.

The eagle wing started as a turn completion mechanism for me but I have made it bigger and longer in my own riding because i like the style it brings.

We can all show or hide our movements to create personal style.

My binding angles are forward forward 39 front 27 back.


----------



## Kijima

Snowdaddy said:


> About the hula hoop. It would make much more sense doing it the other way around.
> 
> I don't think all the other riders before this totally misunderstood how riding a snowboard should be done though and claiming those people don't know how to ride is a bit silly.
> 
> Even a fledgling snowboarder like me can appreciate how different boards ride. It's not the same riding my different snowboards even if the basic technique might be the same. How you weigh them during a turn isn't the same.
> 
> Personally I don't think I would methodically start my turn with weight on the back foot for one side only unless it was necessary because of snow conditions.
> 
> It would be pretty interesting to consider the flex pattern and sidecut for a board made to ride different on heel and toe side. Like the asymmetric boards we already have.


My mother is also very conservative lolol


----------



## MCrides

Kijima's video proving harder to get than the next game of thrones book.


----------



## Paxford

Kijima said:


> My mother is also very conservative lolol


ROTFLMAO

Let's get back to business, sorry for the distraction. So I was a little lost on the involvement of the pec muscle. Then you tied it to the wax and eagle moves. I think I get it now and look forward to you breaking it down.


----------



## Snowdaddy

Kijima said:


> My mother is also very conservative lolol


And a little bit of a drama queen?


----------



## Kijima

MCrides said:


> Kijima's video proving harder to get than the next game of thrones book.


Don't worry my friend. It's not for you.


----------



## Kijima

Paxford said:


> ROTFLMAO
> 
> Let's get back to business, sorry for the distraction. So I was a little lost on the involvement of the pec muscle. Then you tied it to the wax and eagle moves. I think I get it now and look forward to you breaking it down.


Yes the pectoralis major is the muscle that I am using to complete turns. You can move your entire arm or not, it depends on how you want it all to look in the end.
Toe turns are the last 20% only.
Heel turns I am slowly swinging my back arm around from maybe 40% to 95% of the turn if you get me.
I like the way it looks and I feel it brings power and grace to the turn.
Others might choose to learn it, then try and hide it to create a different style. 

I have a duty to myself to create an attractive style and a duty to others to make this all easy to understand and replicate, I'm trying to walk that line atm.



You have been open minded from the start and earned my respect as such so I thank you for that Paxford.

The other haters just fuel me, they come to my thread, not me to theirs. Im 41 now, no TV for 5 years, they simply cannot see the way I can.
One day maybe. .


----------



## MCrides

Kijima said:


> The other haters just fuel me


You keep saying this, but nobody's hating.


----------



## Kijima

You are,


MCrides said:


> You keep saying this, but nobody's hating.


You are trying to be passive about it. If a heap of people jumped in to join you, you would get a little buzz, but that my friend is not happiness.
I could school you on many levels but lets keep this to snowboarding shall we?
Probably best you quietly step out like the others did after I shined the spotlight on them a few pages back. 
Bullies just hate the spotlight.


----------



## Myoko

Kijima Im a standard 15/15 duck stance as I like riding switch but I also love hard carving. You have a serious forward stance of forward 39 front 27 back which I can't even imagine but it must be beneficial to carving as the racers do it also. Exactly how does riding in a forward stance that much help with carving? Can your rear knee get lower? Have never tried it so have no idea.


----------



## MCrides

Kijima said:


> You are,
> 
> You are trying to be passive about it. If a heap of people jumped in to join you, you would get a little buzz, but that my friend is not happiness.
> I could school you on many levels but lets keep this to snowboarding shall we?
> Probably best you quietly step out like the others did after I shined the spotlight on them a few pages back.
> Bullies just hate the spotlight.


Dude, this is ridiculous. Not only am I not hating, I’ve gone out of my way to ask questions and try and explain your concepts to others in the thread.

I like talking and thinking about snowboarding technique. If you’re going to insist on reading any questions or challenges as “hate,” that’s on you.


----------



## MrDavey2Shoes

@Paxford

I watched that video, Aaron's perspective sort of reminds me of Grant Peterson's (bridgestone and then rivendell) approach to mtn biking. Riding through terrain and picking your line at a slow pace on fully rigid bike instead of dominating and charging over it on a full suspension bike. I like Yoder's approach to a quiver and find mine built out under a similar philosophy. Its good to have a charger and also a 2nd - 3rd gear board. Different boards for different days/moods. 

Having ridden in the @Kijima method in "hula hoop" movements for a few full days on my Gnu SPAM (tapered directional flex with a big rockered nose and camber under foot) I realize aside from it being pretty similar to something I've been doing for quite some time - its not a method I'd use in all situations. Its definitely a nice way to carve but probably not how I'd go about carving when I'm "charging". Thats a much more aggressive movement initiating off the front foot to engage the whole edge. Initiating a toeside off the back foot doesn't engage the front portion of the edge as theres no weight on it in the beginning of a carve when you need it. On the East Coast, where I ride most of the time, more speed requires more of the edge engaged if you want to carve hard. Most onlookers wouldn't notice much difference in the look of the turns but its a very different exercise.

When I'm riding I'm more focused on the direction my shoulders are facing/rotating than my hand movements. I find that if I place my shoulders where I want them then I'll naturally "eagle wing" or "wax off". Might not be as pretty of a motion though. I'll occasionally notice my arms getting sloppy, so maybe a shift in thinking would change that.


In short, for the most part I agree with the both of you and your perspectives towards carving. Where I split from you guys, and no that doesn't mean I'm hating, is this idea that there is only one way to eat this reese's. Thats just not so, or any fun!


----------



## Rip154

Nearly alpine stance on a board that short and wide is pretty unique, and I don't think many of us others can compare it to how we ride. Would like to try it some day. Can imagine how every body movement counts with this setup, and balace will be pinpointed. Not sure I'd want to do it full time, but I'd try it for sure.


----------



## MODO

Good vid bro. I am getting real close to have one hand on the snow back side. Toe side elbow and 2 hand on snow I can do. I feel I am doing ok for being 71 this year?????


----------



## drblast

Kijima said:


> My buddy is coming up on saturday to film.
> You guys get out the popcorn, Ill put on my knights armour and release a quick edit of a few turns lol.


Thanks for this video, very cool


----------



## Scalpelman

drblast said:


> Thanks for this video, very cool


What video? Did it get posted? Still waiting for the dolphins, eagles and waxing. So much hype.


----------



## MrDavey2Shoes




----------



## Seppuccu

Spent a few days in Åre last week and tried the principles of hula hoop out. My assessment is that basically it works, with a few comments.

First of all, the reason I think it works is simply because my heelside carves have never felt so good.

My foremost reservation is that it probably works best with a snowboard with a long sidecut - which is what Kijima has been claiming all the time. With my Rossi One LF, which has progressive and overall tight radii, I often felt that my feeble ass kind of got overpowered by the board when switching to toeside, because I was going straight to the tail section of the board's sidecut. But maybe it was because I was just to much in the backseat, or maybe I forgot to drive my front knee in, or maybe I just suck, or perhaps even all of it, idk.

Anyways, for what it's worth here's a short video of me trying. Disclaimer: I am fully aware I'm not "Eurocarving" - like I already said I only "tried the priciples". Not dragging my ass in the snow and not soul arcing. But the basic hip movement is there.


----------



## MrDavey2Shoes

@Seppuccu cool vid! I think if you slow down the rotation of your weight you’ll draw those turns out longer and deeper.


----------



## Seppuccu

MrDavey2Shoes said:


> @Seppuccu cool vid! I think if you slow down the rotation of your weight you’ll draw those turns out longer and deeper.


It's pretty lame, but I've never had much of a problem flashing my inadequacies in public.  Thanks for the encouragement and the tip - I'll try it out again in Kvitfjell this weekend (unless I get sick again; knock on wood).


----------



## speedjason

Ahh I just started to do euro turns only on the toe side. I think the initiation and timing is pretty critical as well as edge weighting. I usually do a big heel side carve with knees bent so your board is almost parallel to the run and as soon as you engage that toe side turn you wanna stack that edge so you can shift your weight and extend your lower body. As soon as you are in that laid out position unstack that edge so you are not turning too sharp. To come back up, stack that edge again and bend your knees so you can bring your body back over the board.


----------



## Kijima

Hey peeps. Trying to express myself on this forum proved to be quite the challenge, but from that I learned a lot. Not about snowboarding specifically, but about human nature. In my quest to express what I was finding each day on my snowboard I was met with obvious resistance, usually by peeps that were not even trying to do the stuff I was talking about, rather they were resisting the ideaology itself. Not unlike people resisting the ideaology of a round earth before it became widely accepted. 
So those who had this impulse based resistance never stood a chance to understand my reasoning for they were auto rejecting the concept before it had a chance to enter their sacred cranium. Those who did not auto reject this crazy, new, wrong, (insert your choice of defamatory adjective here), stood a chance of finding something within themselves prompted by my attempts to convey my findings, as good or bad as they were. 
There were a few of you I know 😊

Personally I improved out of sight this season, hindered in the end purely by lack of strength in my long suffering, 2x acl torn, 3x operated on rear knee. I have work to do. Amongst the few mates who rode along side me at times there were seemingly effortless improvements in some, and rages of fury in others as they auto rejected my words yet ended up embracing, believing and ultimately improving.
So the take away for me is this. Snowboarding is the easy bit, allowing new concepts to enter our subconscious brain is the hard bit. Don't listen to any one person absolutely but allow all ideas to enter your mind. You are not stupid. You will quickly discard any ideas that have no merit, but by disallowing a large percentage of new inputs, your outputs are guarenteed, don't be that guy/gal 😆
Let new ideas prompt your imagination, and get working on new concepts, turn them into reality, into better snowboarding and ultimately into happiness. Then share it around for me. 
From here I turn my focus to shaping boards down in my workshop and producing organic produce in my living soil farm which is something I am having great success with by doing most things 180 degrees to conventional methods. 
Peace out, love your days on this big rock and stay safe out there ✌


----------



## Kijima

Over summer I will do a theory video on youtube, for now enjoy this gif. Its my fav way to finish a run 😆


----------



## MODO

Nice carves bubba 🤙🏻🤪🏂. Where r u from?


----------



## 16gkid

Kijima you are really are your biggest fan


----------



## MrDavey2Shoes

Short version of this entire thread:

People need to be more accepting to others ideas but only my idea is right so do it that way. You might think you’re doing it right but I assure you you’re not...


Anyway, there is something to the hula hoop movements - I know this first hand as do others in this thread. However it’s a shame you got so defensive toward so many people who really weren’t hating on you, but disagreeing in a public space or even agreeing and sharing a different perspective on the same thing, like myself. Conversation is creation and you stifled so much conversation.


Glad you had a great season full of progress.


----------



## WigMar

There's a culture in snowboarding that's similar to skateboarding culture- which was/is unfortunately very closed minded in general. When I was skating in the 90's, you had to dress a certain way and do the right tricks to be accepted at all. Whole styles of skating were untouchable because they just weren't cool. Everyone would make fun of you to the point of hazing. Even snowboarding in the 2000's, we looked down on everyone who didn't look like us. Thankfully, the culture has opened up a lot, but I think we still have a long way to go. 

I hope we can get more radical new ideas like the hula hoop out of this forum. It would be a shame if all we were good for around here was telling people their boots are too big. New ideas always meet with resistance. Let's keep the discussion friendly and supportive around here; we generally do a good job.


----------



## MODO

SAME WITH SURFING BRO 🏄🏼‍♂️🤙🏻🏂🦈


----------



## Kijima

16gkid said:


> Kijima you are really are your biggest fan


Actually I have always been my biggest hater.
I have dealt with that now and am free of its burden so if you can let it go too, that would be nice


----------



## Kijima

WigMar said:


> There's a culture in snowboarding that's similar to skateboarding culture- which was/is unfortunately very closed minded in general. When I was skating in the 90's, you had to dress a certain way and do the right tricks to be accepted at all. Whole styles of skating were untouchable because they just weren't cool. Everyone would make fun of you to the point of hazing. Even snowboarding in the 2000's, we looked down on everyone who didn't look like us. Thankfully, the culture has opened up a lot, but I think we still have a long way to go.
> 
> I hope we can get more radical new ideas like the hula hoop out of this forum. It would be a shame if all we were good for around here was telling people their boots are too big. New ideas always meet with resistance. Let's keep the discussion friendly and supportive around here; we generally do a good job.


Wigmar. I respect you mate. 
My life has been a troubled one since I was a small boy. Devoid of love, always the problem child, bullied in school, I quickly learned to react against those who would attack me.

Now I see that posting on here, against convention was sure to attract the same attention I recieved from bullies in school. It's like they can smell it. 

When they hit me, I drew on my lifetime of experience of hitting back. 
However just like it brought me no happiness in school, it brought me no happiness on this forum only this time I looked at the reasons. 
16gkid, for your attacks on me, I forgive you. 
To the others who joined in, I forgive you. 
I was subconsciously asking for it in the same way a misbehaven boy is subconsciously asking for a beating by his mothers hand. 

Let us move beyond now.


----------



## Kijima

It's a rainy day here in japan and I am going to work on a short video consisting of 2 turns, showing where I finished at this season.
From somebody that used to just bomb down the hill to where I am now, which for me is just short of my goal of producing beautiful heel turns and linking them in seamless fashion into beautiful toe turns.
I find the beauty in snowboarding is its asymmetry. This is what skiing lacks, skiing offers 2 of the same turns, snowboarding offers us 2 incredibly different experiences in its turns and combining them, for me is to find the soul of snowboarding itself.


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## 16gkid

Kijima said:


> 16gkid, for your attacks on me, I forgive you.
> To the others who joined in, I forgive you.


Lol you're being a drama queen, it's just snowboarding


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## Kijima

16gkid said:


> Lol you're being a drama queen, it's just snowboarding


Stand like a man and face it like I have and I promise you will feel better about yourself. 
That is from the heart.


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## 16gkid

Kijima said:


> Stand like a man and face it like I have and I promise you will feel better about yourself.
> That is from the heart.


That's too deep man, dont let words hurt you, life is much better that way


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## Kijima




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## Kijima

Ok so lets look at this pic of your good self. I have the same problem that I am going to highlight in your technique, so by default we are equal. I am not better than you, nor do I assume so.

So the main problem here is that we remain bent at the waist in a toe turn. Bent at the waist is a heel turn friendly position and we do not want that in our toe turns. Watch Ryan Ks toe turns to confirm that to yourself, dont take it from me.
Now I have been working hard for a month or more fighting this exact problem, I did get around it but instantly run into a new problem. As I successfully pushed my hips toward the snow, the byproduct was more board angle, or inclination to use carving language. My board was getting to 90 degrees or even more, this causes excessive board flex and ultimately a total loss of edge.
my next move was to make wedge bindings to mitigate this excessive board angle. That did work but my heel turn suffered so I scrapped it.
So I went back to the source, the sensei, the man with the best toe turn in the game. RK. I studied his body position whilst his hips were pushed against the snow and noted that his board inclination was nowhere near what mine was and this was allowing him to achieve full body flatness without losing his edge.

Im struggling to post pics and words in the same post so bear with me. knapton pic coming next.


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## Kijima

OK I think I have it sorted now lol. Im working on a new laptop with a japanese keyboard and to say shit is hard to find is an understatement.

So look at Ryans extreme body angle but relatively mellow board angle. This is how he gets the job done and it is being done by flexing his ankles,, toes up. Adduction of the entire foot. Peeps like you and I need to increase our ankle flex to move forward with this.


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## Kijima

This pic shows it clearly. More board angle, less hips to the snow, worse style as a result. If his hips were to push fully down his board will go beyond 90 degrees and he will eat shit like I did 300 times before working this out


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## Kijima

Now check this beautiful style, hips forward, theres nothing heel turn friendly about this guys body position. To me it looks like pure beauty but in his board angle I see problems. It looks like 90 degrees or damn close to it, in my experience he probably lost his edge moments after this pic was taken, or pulled his hips back in time to save himself. 
So not perfect, but damn close to it.
Unquestionably beautiful


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## Kijima

So by studying many people, considering many ways to achieve the same end we can cherry pick the best bits from all these snowboarders who are doing their absolute best with the knowledge they have allowed to enter their minds, it is only by allowing a mass of info in, sorting and then discarding the junk that we will achieve our end goal.

I dont want to fight with you man, we are the same. Get yourself a wedge to stand on and start increasing your foot adduction over summer and your toe turns will be epic next season.


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## NT.Thunder

Kijima said:


> It's a rainy day here in japan and I am going to work on a short video consisting of 2 turns, showing where I finished at this season.
> From somebody that used to just bomb down the hill to where I am now, which for me is just short of my goal of producing beautiful heel turns and linking them in seamless fashion into beautiful toe turns.
> I find the beauty snowboarding is assymmetry. This is what skiing lacks, skiing offers 2 of the same turns, snowboarding offers us 2 incredibly different experiences in its turns and combining them, for me is to find the soul of snowboarding itself.


This is interesting and was something I really noticed in Japan early this year where when sitting on the chair heading back up the mountain, daughter by side, I found myself more drawn to watching the real relaxed and smooth carving from side to side compared to the bomb or hit and bounce of anything that was standing still. I don't know if it's because I'm a bit older and maybe a little more mellow but I found myself wanting to watch those with that fluent and effortless looking carving style.

Something I'd like to conciously put some time onto next trip.


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## Kijima

NT.Thunder said:


> This is interesting and was something I really noticed in Japan early this year where when sitting on the chair heading back up the mountain, daughter by side, I found myself more drawn to that real relaxed and smooth carving from side to side compared to the bomb or hit and bounce of anything that was standing still. I don't know if it's because I'm a bit older and maybe a little more mellow but I found myself wanting to watch those with that fluent and effortless looking carving style.
> 
> Something I'd like to conciously put some time onto next trip.


i think you are attracted to the circles those riders were channeling. 
Come to my unheard of, yet epic hill and we can share a chair of two


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## MrDavey2Shoes

Instead of pushing your hips try getting lower earlier in the turn so you can extend earlier and further. By lower I mean squat not angulation.


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## Kijima

MrDavey2Shoes said:


> Instead of pushing your hips try getting lower earlier in the turn so you can extend earlier and further. By lower I mean squat not angulation.


Yes there is truth in this and I have incorporated that into my method by ways of not rising up at the end of a heel turn, rather allowing the force generated by the straightening of the legs to project the board forward, rather than the body upward just prior to edge change.
An attractive byproduct of this is that it puts me in the rear seat automatically. Hula hooping my way out of a heel turn and into a toe turn.
I know the theory but could not personally achieve it this season.
Extra muscle in my rear leg and increased adduction in my ankle will get me there next season.

Much of this toe side stuff is easier when you are not trying to enter the toe turn directly out of a lay down heel turn, its the combo that throws spanners into the works. But that combo is my end goal.

If you go back to my summer training video of last summer you will see I already had the squeeze in there at the end of a heel turn but it slipped from my riding this season as I focused on other things. I find I constantly have to keep checks on individual body movements as learning a new one will often displace or upset an old one.
Thats why I like to give them silly names I think.


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## Kijima

Here you can see how I modified my old Katana bindings with a 30mm rise heel wedge, slimlined the top strap, cut off the highbacks and use over the boot toe strap rather than toe caps.
Also note the steel heel lock laying next to it.
The heel wedge was great for toe turns but everything it gave to my toe turn it subtracted from my heel turn. Fail.
Reducing the top strap worked well as did lowering the ladder strap to its lowest position.

My current binding project that I wont be able to test until next season is a pair of NOW bindings modified for extra movement. I have them rotating a lot from heel to toe edge which will further reduce board angle on toe turns as well as heel turns. I feel this extra, board angle reducing movement could be the future of carve bindings.


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## Kijima

I bolted the steel heel lock through my boot so that it directly contacted the heel loop on my binding creating a mechanical lock.
The mechanical lock, such as burton step ons and hardboots have, sucked so badly.
That started me down the path that I have since proven to myself, that stiff boots and bindings were the enemy of lay down carving.
That goes for highbacks too. The highback is the enemy of a lay down heel turn as they increase board angle. Straight up bad shit.

By end of season I was leaving my upper boots loose and top straps loose. The result of that was less board angle. Straight up goodness for lay down carving.


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## Kijima

My final hardware related experiment that proved hugely successful was getting this 152 carve board with a 136cm edge to behave exactly like my 152 all mountain board with 110cm edge at low board angles while still behaving like a 136cm edge at high angles.

Long edges make a snowboard inherently harder to ride at all times except in fast hard carves with high board angles.

I found a way to get that same high board angle performance without sacrificing low board angle performance like all long edge carve boards do.
I cannot go deeply into the details of this in public, but those who ride my hybrid carving boards next season will enjoy a beautiful experience, that i can guarantee.


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## WigMar

Kijima said:


> stiff boots and bindings were the enemy of lay down carving.
> That goes for highbacks too. The highback is the enemy of a lay down heel turn as they increase board angle. Straight up bad shit.


I've been feeling this way too. I can't believe how soft my carving setup is these days. I'm using the softest highbacks I could find. No highbacks is next level. I'd like to try that too.


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## Kijima

WigMar said:


> I've been feeling this way too. I can't believe how soft my carving setup is these days. I'm using the softest highbacks I could find. No highbacks is next level. I'd like to try that too.


Toes up for toe side. Toes down for heel side. 
Im not sure how highbacks can ever fit into that equation. 

Pm me your shipping address brother, you pay shipping and Ill send you one of my hybrid carve boards for free before next season. 
And thanks for your support. It means a lot.


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## Kijima

Now I will humbly compare my own heel turn to the man who inspired me to become a better snowboarder,and to whom I am forever thankful. Ryan Knapton.
As I have been saying for a long time now, the way to prompt a heel turn is to open the front knee, this forces the upper body to begin rotation. The next move is to begin to squat down, or sit on the toilet as I have been calling it. Now sitting on the toilet is an infamous term in carve circles it seems because it locks you in to a static middle of turn friendly position and from there you cannot complete the turn, people who fall victim to this will almost always wash out or throw a 180 out of their heel turns to conceal the poor turn completion.
Butters out anyone?
Everything in this sport is a circle, as soon as you become static, you can expect your turn to become static.
However, when preluded by the front knee open it becomes a favorable position to find yourself in. It results in the back leg being heavily bent whilst the front leg stays quite straight with just a slight bend to adsorb bumps in the snow. From there you continue the upper body rotation or eagle wing as I call it. Jamming your rear femur inward close to the front knee is also a huge help as it promotes board flex between the feet which become increasingly necessary as board angles increase, the wider your stance the more this will help you. Duckfooters will have trouble doing that however.
In this pic you can clearly see the eagle wing in action adding both balance and rotation at the same time.
The way out of this position is to squeeze the board forward by straightening the rear leg and disallowing the head to rise too much then flipping to the toe edge. If the head lifts up too high the board does not squeeze out in front and the hula hoop motion is lost, something I myself struggled to regularly achieve this season. We need strong rear leg muscles to pull it off, my chicken legs were not up to the task lol.
Again, low board angles are advantageous, toes down for heel turns, highbacks are your enemy, back them right off or delete them all together.

On a firm day I can do a full 360 degree heel turn like this at the end of a run on flat ground.

PS. I just realized how amusingly relevant the toilet sign is when we are talking about heel turns lololol.


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## Kijima

Now lets study Ryans heel turn, and I do so with all due respect to the man who is one of my heros.
Firstly I know he is holding a selfie stick and I know he is duck footed, both of those things are working against him but those are his choices.
His first mistake is to not open the front knee on entry to a heel turn which results in him sitting on the actual toilet, the infamous carve forum people type of toilet, and they are right, it is bad.
The first reason it is bad is that both his knees are bent equally in a middle of turn friendly position, its not easy to get into, nor get out of this position.
The second reason it is bad is that it prohibits upper body rotation and rear femur rotation.
The rail grab is also not advantageous as it reduces his ability to balance and completely blocks him from from rotating his upper body, a wash out or 180 out is almost guaranteed.
Another thing I see in his videos is heel turn aversion, again dont shoot the messenger, watch his runs yourself and count the toe turns vs the heel turns. Avoiding heel turns is not a good way to get better at them.
Finally I would add that he promotes cranking the highbacks which I know to be a great disadvantage for heel turns as that only increases board angle which is the enemy of lay down turns. Ryan himself taught me that when I studied his toe turn.

So there you go, and Ryan, I love you mate.


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## Kijima

This is the link to my heel turn above, it was going 360 degrees but I had to abort to avoid crashing into my buddy


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## Rip154

You should look at the Burton Tourist boot and Bent Metal Logic bindings, really flexy boot and highback. Also been doing splitboarding without highbacks for awhile now, feels great as long as the snow is soft. Burton Freestyle bindings with Freedback, and they seem to help a little with toeside response, lock the heel down but with a progressive flex.


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## Kijima

Rip154 said:


> You should look at the Burton Tourist boot and Bent Metal Logic bindings, really flexy boot and highback. Also been doing splitboarding without highbacks for awhile now, feels great as long as the snow is soft. Burton Freestyle bindings with Freedback, and they seem to help a little with toeside response, lock the heel down but with a progressive flex.


They both gravitate in the right direction for sure but my heel turn is sorted as is so Im not chasing anything hardware wise for heel turns and reflex bindings do not work at the angles I run. I tried my cartels with no highbacks but that stupid reflex disc limited the angle to 30 degrees. My front foot is 48 degrees.
The only thing that interests me now is reduced board angle on toe turns but I will do that by increasing my foot adduction over summer. The modified super rocker Now bindings might help too, but simply leaving the upper zone in the boots loose and the top binding strap loose is easy and free.

The bindings in the vid above are flows with burton straps and the highbacks in maximum recline which is quite a lot when you set the cables in the rear 2 holes and unwind the adjuster fully.


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## Rip154

Kijima said:


> They both gravitate in the right direction for sure but my heel turn is sorted as is so Im not chasing anything hardware wise for heel turns and reflex bindings do not work at the angles I run. I tried my cartels with no highbacks but that stupid reflex disc limited the angle to 30 degrees. My front foot is 48 degrees.
> The only thing that interests me now is reduced board angle on toe turns but I will do that by increasing my foot adduction over summer. The modified super rocker Now bindings might help too, but simply leaving the upper zone in the boots loose and the top binding strap loose is easy and free.


Did you lift the hanger on the Now bindings?


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## Kijima

Rip154 said:


> Did you lift the hanger on the Now bindings?


I put a 7mm spacer under the hanger and ground the hanger itself and part of the chassis to allow extra travel. The rubbers are now useless and will be re engineered possibly by simply gluing rubber pads on to the board itself.
Burton straps and ratchets go straight on too.


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## MrDavey2Shoes

I hadn’t given thought to the idea of low board angulation on heelside turns but I follow the logic there. There will be a learning curve for me to get used to a “toes down” movement on my heelsides.

Can you explain the “toes up” on toe side turns? I don’t know if I follow that. Do you mean letting the board angle drop while you’re body tips lower?

I noticed the issues of completing the hula hoop heelside to toe side movement with duck foot it would feel as though my knee is being forced in a direction it shouldn’t go. I wound up changing my back foot to 0 degrees and that helped, I’m not ready to go + + yet as I just cant give up an occasional park lap.


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## Rip154

Kijima said:


> I put a 7mm spacer under the hanger and ground the hanger itself and part of the chassis to allow extra travel. The rubbers are now useless and will be re engineered possibly by simply gluing rubber pads on to the board itself.
> Burton straps and ratchets go straight on too.


Ok, I see where you are going with that. Will be interesting to see how it works out. Can't quite wrap my head around what transitions will be like with that setup. The Tourist boot allows me to stretch my foot over let's say 90 degrees, but you will keep that at 90 and increase the angle between the binding and the board instead.

Edit: Read more posts now, so yeah you already explained that. Won't your forward stance on back foot hinder you on toeside (you probably wrote that down somewhere too)?


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## Kijima

MrDavey2Shoes said:


> I hadn’t given thought to the idea of low board angulation on heelside turns but I follow the logic there. There will be a learning curve for me to get used to a “toes down” movement on my heelsides.
> 
> Can you explain the “toes up” on toe side turns? I don’t know if I follow that. Do you mean letting the board angle drop while you’re body tips lower?
> 
> I noticed the issues of completing the hula hoop heelside to toe side movement with duck foot it would feel as though my knee is being forced in a direction it shouldn’t go. I wound up changing my back foot to 0 degrees and that helped, I’m not ready to go + + yet as I just cant give up an occasional park lap.


Toes down on heel side is not something you need to aggressively pursue, rather it is a concept you should be aware of.
That high board angles do not serve us for lay down carving is a fact.
Knowing that will allow you to understand that highbacks do not serve us for heel turns and when you either back them off or delete them all together the need to physically put your toes down disappears. At least it did in my own heel turns which I am very happy with.

Toes up on toe turns means increasing your ability to flex your ankle joints to reduce board angles. You will really know it when you reach the point where toes up becomes an issue for you but that is not until you begin trying to push your hips down to the snow.

Some people might have enough adduction ability naturally as I believe Ryan does.

Study toe turns focusing on the relationship between leg angle and board angle and you will see who is flexing the ankles and who is just standing in their boots.


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## Scalpelman

It’s all just on-the-fly figuring-shit-out with ankle motion. I get what your saying though. These are concepts to be aware of when fine tuning your balance/edge angles. That’s the flow. I seek it.


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## Kijima

Rip154 said:


> Ok, I see where you are going with that. Will be interesting to see how it works out. Can't quite wrap my head around what transitions will be like with that setup. The Tourist boot allows me to stretch my foot over let's say 90 degrees, but you will keep that at 90 and increase the angle between the binding and the board instead.
> 
> Edit: Read more posts now, so yeah you already explained that. Won't your forward stance on back foot hinder you on toeside (you probably wrote that down somewhere too)?


With FF stance I focus on placing my big toe close to the edge and that is the reason my back foot has less angle than my front.
I rotate, regardless of the resulting angle until my big toe sits near the edge.
If you run the same angles front and back you end up with the front big toe near the edge and the rear little toe near the edge which is reducing leverage and feels like an instant loss of power.
My stance angles change as my board width changes. This allowed me to finish the season on a 27cm board after riding most of it on a 32cm board.
Hello weight savings.


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## snowman55

If you really want to go soft with boots, I used see rider in the '80s(I skied then) ride with Sorel "Duck" boots. With your DYI skills, maybe you can get it to work for you.


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## MrDavey2Shoes

So I had to google some ankle movement terms real quick. Lol.
Apparently what I thought you meant was something called dorsiflexion. Adduction is something totally different than I was picturing, I’ll have to wrap my head around this concept.


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## Kijima

Scalpelman said:


> It’s all just on-the-fly figuring-shit-out with ankle motion. I get what your saying though. These are concepts to be aware of when fine tuning your balance/edge angles. That’s the flow. I seek it.


Delivering the concepts is my goal, then every person can do the fine tuning themselves.
Questions like what is your stance are no longer necessay to ask somebody when the concept is clear in your mind


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## Kijima

MrDavey2Shoes said:


> So I had to google some ankle movement terms real quick. Lol.
> Apparently what I thought you meant was something called dorsiflexion. Adduction is something totally different than I was picturing, I’ll have to wrap my head around this concept.


Edit. 
Dorsiflexion it is.


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## Rip154

Kijima said:


> With FF stance I focus on placing my big toe close to the edge and that is the reason my back foot has less angle than my front.
> I rotate, regardless of the resulting angle until my big toe sits near the edge.
> If you run the same angles front and back you end up with the front big toe near the edge and the rear little toe near the edge which is reducing leverage and feels like an instant loss of power.
> My stance angles change as my board width changes. This allowed me to finish the season on a 27cm board after riding most of it on a 32cm board.
> Hello weight savings.


I just meant that it's easier to get your toes up with a duck stance like Knapton, than trying to bend your back foot up when it's facing forward. Realise it's a constant battle of compromises.


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## Kijima

Rip154 said:


> I just meant that it's easier to get your toes up with a duck stance like Knapton, than trying to bend your back foot up when it's facing forward. Realise it's a constant battle of compromises.





Rip154 said:


> I just meant that it's easier to get your toes up with a duck stance like Knapton, than trying to bend your back foot up when it's facing forward. Realise it's a constant battle of compromises.


Thats exactly right my friend. What giveth also taketh away. 
This is a circular sport and we exist somewhere within that circle with our stance. 
Duck limits heel side friendly body rotation while granting excessive toe side body rotation for directional riding.


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## MrDavey2Shoes

@Kijima I don’t really mind what we call it, I used this ankle movement chart to visualize it as I didn’t know the terms. Is this not what you mean by adduction?


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## Kijima

MrDavey2Shoes said:


> @Kijima I don’t really mind what we call it, I used this ankle movement chart to visualize it as I didn’t know the terms. Is this not what you mean by adduction?
> View attachment 153694


I stand corrected


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## Kijima

Dorsiflexion for toe turns! 
I might get some Tshirts made up lol


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## Kijima

I built my workshop between these 2 sakura trees for days like today.


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## MrDavey2Shoes

That’s weird enough for me to wear


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## Kijima




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## WigMar

I like the eagle wing. I usually keep that arm tucked into my side. I think the eagle wing could really help with balance, and it looks like it helps determine overall turn size and timing. 

You can see the heel lock you're testing pretty clearly. Are you running the canted riser as well? I often longboard with my rear heel raised. Canted Binding risers could be pretty rad. Was that an experiment worth replicating?


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## neni

Kijima said:


>


Wow, awesome progression. So good to watch, very smooth. 

Thanks for that slow motion. Always the most helpful part to me as one can follow step by step in every part of the motion. Will get back to that post next winter and try to copy (season didn't really exist over here this year. Zero experimenting time, no progression).

... love the duct take enforced panz . You really figured out to get those heel turns really low.


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## MrDavey2Shoes

Killer turns, I’d love to see some not slowed down to just watch and enjoy as well. I think next year I may try some ++ stance angles so I can drop lower on my heelsides. I’ve been keeping my arm back arm tucked to try to move more mass heelside but I see now maybe that’s counter intuitive if I can change my angles. What kind of longboards are you guys riding in the summer to scratch the itch? I might pick one up.


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## WigMar

I've got a longer pintail that gets ridden the most. It's good fun.


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## MrDavey2Shoes

Pintail speaks to me the most visually. Is it like purchasing a short popsicle board where they're all the same and you just pick the brand and color you like? I suspect there is more to long boards than regular skateboards.


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## Rip154

Different stance widths, wheelbase, trucks, wheel size and so on.. A good shop can talk you through what they have at least.


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## Kijima

WigMar said:


> I like the eagle wing. I usually keep that arm tucked into my side. I think the eagle wing could really help with balance, and it looks like it helps determine overall turn size and timing.
> 
> You can see the heel lock you're testing pretty clearly. Are you running the canted riser as well? I often longboard with my rear heel raised. Canted Binding risers could be pretty rad. Was that an experiment worth replicating?


Tucking the arm in by your side is good for style in most of your heel turns, I personally struggle with the opposite problem there, the invisible girlfriend lol. Just make sure the arm is never static, let it stay close by your side but move it from the back through to the front as the turn progresses and your turn will flow nicely as a result, setting your upper body nicely for that next toe turn.
However when the turn gets low raising the arm to eagle wing status really helps with balance. I guess as we become better at this we can start to make more subtle body movements, refining the process but eagle wing is a huge help for me right now. 
This season I recommended eagle wing to a few local carvers who have more board talent than me, actually they started to mill around the chairlifts to share a ride up with me which is rare for a foreigner in Japan lol, and when they added it to their turns it was an obvious improvement.

I had not thought of the heel wedge at that stage of the season yet so its not in this footage but forget heel wedges, they work for toe turns but hurt heel turns so unless you want to throw a 180 butter after every toe turn they suck. Work on dorsiflexion of the ankle joint instead. I tried it so you dont have to lol.
The now binding experiment Im working on could pay off however because it gives to the toe turn and gives to the heel turn equally.


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## Kijima

neni said:


> Wow, awesome progression. So good to watch, very smooth.
> 
> Thanks for that slow motion. Always the most helpful part to me as one can follow step by step in every part of the motion. Will get back to that post next winter and try to copy (season didn't really exist over here this year. Zero experimenting time, no progression).
> 
> ... love the duct take enforced panz . You really figured out to get those heel turns really low.


Thank you for the kind words Neni. 
These are actually some of my worst turns you know, it was my first day back on the board after a huge crash at Kiji. I was deep in a toe turn at high speed when my board sunk in to a soft patch of snow causing me to scorpion at 60kph or more. I pulled all the muscles in my back and spent a week unable to move, My friend Sou was coming up from Osaka, driving 8 hours to meet me so I had to go riding and we filmed this on that day. I could not find my flow but it turns out the footage is helpful because all my bad habits are on display lol. From that we can learn more. 

Another thing with this footage is its filmed on very low angle terrain which creates a few problems. Firstly you have further to get up and down and secondly you have lots of momentum but little gravity to work with. That makes it hard to complete turns as the force pushing you forward is the primary force. Steeper terrain has a better balance of momentum and gravity and less distance to get up and down. My best carving happens on 30 degree slopes.

Our season was terrible too, lower snowfall than we had in the year of your first visit. I swear when Japan gets skunked, the energy that usually flows into japan gets pushed up and flows into north america. 
However spring was cold and kept Shigakogen in great condition. Even as I write this, there is a refreeze outside my house but sadly resorts are closed and we are locked down.

Duct tape is far cheaper than goretex hahahha. I got a whole season out of my gloves this year thanks to its magical properties.


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## Kijima

MrDavey2Shoes said:


> Killer turns, I’d love to see some not slowed down to just watch and enjoy as well. I think next year I may try some ++ stance angles so I can drop lower on my heelsides. I’ve been keeping my arm back arm tucked to try to move more mass heelside but I see now maybe that’s counter intuitive if I can change my angles. What kind of longboards are you guys riding in the summer to scratch the itch? I might pick one up.


Thanks mate. 
Practice my exercise of doing squats with square shoulders, and then do a squat with your shoulders rotated. If you can do that on a board after opening the front knee you can do everything Im doing in this video. Then hula hoop your way out.

Im riding a regular longboard, just make sure it has full wheel clearance. Electric ones are fking rad.


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## Kijima

WigMar said:


> I often longboard with my rear heel raised.


Did you say increased dorsiflexion lol. 
The subconscious skater in you already knows whats up. Now think about me leaving my top binding strap loose...


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## Kijima

This is my new longboard lol. 
I need to spotweld up some 18650 battery packs to get her running.


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## Kijima

One thing I forgot to highlight in the video is that vertical rise at the end of heel turns is bad. In both of those turns I rise vertically, now if I were to keep my head low but still perform the same body movements the energy would squeeze my board out in front, automatically putting me in the back seat and allowing me to easily hula hoop my way into a lay down toe turn.

So on paper a complete turn set looks like this.
1. Front knee open which causes upper body rotation to begin
2. Squat
3. Eagle wing
4. Squeeze whilst keeping the head low
5. Hula hoop into the toe turn
6. Begin stretching out
7. Think about dorsiflexion as you push the hips toward the snow
8 Rise vertically and wax off which is just upper body rotation to complete toe turn
9. Gently fall heel side and open the knee again.
10. Rinse, repeat.

You can see there is only 1 vertical rise in a heel turn / toe turn set.


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## Kijima

This is another look at the same turn I posted earlier, firstly at normal speed, then slow mo, then 2x slow mo


----------



## NT.Thunder

Very cool

What size board is that you're riding, looks short or is it just my eyes? Is this one of your designs @Kijima


----------



## Scalpelman

Good stuff man. The shit is tight.


----------



## Kijima

NT.Thunder said:


> Very cool
> 
> What size board is that you're riding, looks short or is it just my eyes? Is this one of your designs @Kijima


Ive been exclusively on my own boards for 5 years or more now. Since I hung up the birdman. 
The board above is called Onsen Tamago and is 152 long, and will be available in a huge range of widths to suit everyone for next season. 
I will do a 158 Onsen Tamago too. 
It's lovely flexible bamboo stick that can honestly do it all except deep pow.

The board in the other vid is a fish shape pow stick called Taiyaki and is 142 long due to having no tail. Again, bamboo core and available next season in a huge range of widths. Its fun everywhere but switch. 

I also have a long skinny pow board for those 1m dumps we get called Kiotoshi. A carve board called Gerende Cutter and an epic hybrid carve board that rides like Onsen Tamago at low angles but Gerende Cutter at high angles. 
I think it will be called Gerende Tamago lol. And Im keeping the original tech behind that board close to my chest to avoid plagiarism.


----------



## Kijima

20/21 season will be my launch


----------



## Kijima

Scalpelman said:


> Good stuff man. The shit is tight.


Thank you Sir


----------



## NT.Thunder

Is there any theme behind the naming of your board models? Is it food or prefectures or something similar? For some strange reason I now have a Okonomiyaki craving lol


----------



## Kijima

NT.Thunder said:


> Is there any theme behind the naming of your board models? Is it food or prefectures or something similar? For some strange reason I now have a Okonomiyaki craving lol


You are onto it my friend. 
These names make Japanese people laugh every time they hear them. 
Onsen Tamago is a soft egg cooked in the natural hotsprings. 
Taiyaki is a delicious fish shaped pancake filled with custard or other sweet fillings.
Kiotoshi means tree drop. Google that for a laugh.
Gerende means piste in japanese, so piste cutter. 
Gerende Tamago, you work it out lol


----------



## Olivetta

Kijima said:


> I just did a lap with no highbacks and as I expected had no trouble at all. I could feel that the highback was not there but it did not hurt me at all.
> 3 or 4 lay down heel turns happened easily.
> Im using my whole body as a lever.
> When you do that, everything changes.
> 
> 32cm waist, no highbacks, easy laid out heel carves.
> View attachment 152825


one easy question, it is safe to ride with out spoiler?

there are not risk about bad movement if we "crash"


----------



## Olivetta

lbs123 said:


> The reason I prefer Japanese carving over Ryan Knapton's (except that I like Japanese style more) is that they don't always do these craze wide carves for which you need big empty groomers. One of my favorite Toy Films rides is here at 5:55 - a crowded groomer, yet rhythm, dynamics, style


I love the Toyfilm too


----------



## Olivetta

Kijima said:


> Wax off and eagle wing will be in the tutorial video coming soon. Basically they are both pectorial engagement but the eagle wing is much bigger than wax off due to the heel turn being 70% of the riders effort.
> 
> The eagle wing started as a turn completion mechanism for me but I have made it bigger and longer in my own riding because i like the style it brings.
> 
> We can all show or hide our movements to create personal style.
> 
> My binding angles are forward forward 39 front 27 back.


super forward angles 

Nice video

do you think that your heal turn it could be ok if you will use a duck angle?


----------



## Olivetta

Kijima said:


> Yes the pectoralis major is the muscle that I am using to complete turns. You can move your entire arm or not, it depends on how you want it all to look in the end.
> Toe turns are the last 20% only.
> Heel turns I am slowly swinging my back arm around from maybe 40% to 95% of the turn if you get me.
> I like the way it looks and I feel it brings power and grace to the turn.
> Others might choose to learn it, then try and hide it to create a different style.
> 
> I have a duty to myself to create an attractive style and a duty to others to make this all easy to understand and replicate, I'm trying to walk that line atm.
> 
> 
> 
> You have been open minded from the start and earned my respect as such so I thank you for that Paxford.
> 
> The other haters just fuel me, they come to my thread, not me to theirs. Im 41 now, no TV for 5 years, they simply cannot see the way I can.
> One day maybe. .


I do not like this kind of bad vibration


----------



## Olivetta

Kijima said:


> Over summer I will do a theory video on youtube, for now enjoy this gif. Its my fav way to finish a run 😆


I like your videos

but honestly i think that your angle set up are so out of the average angle of the other ridere that it is hard to compare


----------



## Olivetta

Kijima said:


> Hey peeps. Trying to express myself on this forum proved to be quite the challenge, but from that I learned a lot. Not about snowboarding specifically, but about human nature. In my quest to express what I was finding each day on my snowboard I was met with obvious resistance, usually by peeps that were not even trying to do the stuff I was talking about, rather they were resisting the ideaology itself. Not unlike people resisting the ideaology of a round earth before it became widely accepted.
> So those who had this impulse based resistance never stood a chance to understand my reasoning for they were auto rejecting the concept before it had a chance to enter their sacred cranium. Those who did not auto reject this crazy, new, wrong, (insert your choice of defamatory adjective here), stood a chance of finding something within themselves prompted by my attempts to convey my findings, as good or bad as they were.
> There were a few of you I know 😊
> 
> Personally I improved out of sight this season, hindered in the end purely by lack of strength in my long suffering, 2x acl torn, 3x operated on rear knee. I have work to do. Amongst the few mates who rode along side me at times there were seemingly effortless improvements in some, and rages of fury in others as they auto rejected my words yet ended up embracing, believing and ultimately improving.
> So the take away for me is this. Snowboarding is the easy bit, allowing new concepts to enter our subconscious brain is the hard bit. Don't listen to any one person absolutely but allow all ideas to enter your mind. You are not stupid. You will quickly discard any ideas that have no merit, but by disallowing a large percentage of new inputs, your outputs are guarenteed, don't be that guy/gal 😆
> Let new ideas prompt your imagination, and get working on new concepts, turn them into reality, into better snowboarding and ultimately into happiness. Then share it around for me.
> From here I turn my focus to shaping boards down in my workshop and producing organic produce in my living soil farm which is something I am having great success with by doing most things 180 degrees to conventional methods.
> Peace out, love your days on this big rock and stay safe out there ✌





Kijima said:


> OK I think I have it sorted now lol. Im working on a new laptop with a japanese keyboard and to say shit is hard to find is an understatement.
> 
> So look at Ryans extreme body angle but relatively mellow board angle. This is how he gets the job done and it is being done by flexing his ankles,, toes up. Adduction of the entire foot. Peeps like you and I need to increase our ankle flex to move forward with this.
> View attachment 153680


i think it could be a prospective from the camera 

for me the board is quite 90 degreee


----------



## Olivetta

Kijima said:


> I bolted the steel heel lock through my boot so that it directly contacted the heel loop on my binding creating a mechanical lock.
> The mechanical lock, such as burton step ons and hardboots have, sucked so badly.
> That started me down the path that I have since proven to myself, that stiff boots and bindings were the enemy of lay down carving.
> That goes for highbacks too. The highback is the enemy of a lay down heel turn as they increase board angle. Straight up bad shit.
> 
> By end of season I was leaving my upper boots loose and top straps loose. The result of that was less board angle. Straight up goodness for lay down carving.
> View attachment 153686


Actually I am using burton step on and I m curios about that



but again I am quite afraid about what it could be happen if something goes wrong with out spoiler


----------



## Olivetta

Kijima said:


> My final hardware related experiment that proved hugely successful was getting this 152 carve board with a 136cm edge to behave exactly like my 152 all mountain board with 110cm edge at low board angles while still behaving like a 136cm edge at high angles.
> 
> Long edges make a snowboard inherently harder to ride at all times except in fast hard carves with high board angles.
> 
> I found a way to get that same high board angle performance without sacrificing low board angle performance like all long edge carve boards do.
> I cannot go deeply into the details of this in public, but those who ride my hybrid carving boards next season will enjoy a beautiful experience, that i can guarantee.
> View attachment 153687


very beautiful detail


----------



## Kijima

Olivetta said:


> super forward angles
> 
> Nice video
> 
> do you think that your heal turn it could be ok if you will use a duck angle?


Duck stance angles make heel turns very difficult because it restricts the necessary upper body rotation while allowing excess upper body rotation for toe turns. 
This is the reason you see 99% of riders doing ok toe turns but terrible heel turns. 
I believe if a rider wants to learn good heel turns but retain duck stance they should learn it with FF angles and gradually return the back binding to duck stance once they fully understand the body positions required. 
It will take some muscle lengthening in the rear leg, but humans are very adaptable creatures.


----------



## Olivetta

Kijima said:


> Now lets study Ryans heel turn, and I do so with all due respect to the man who is one of my heros.
> Firstly I know he is holding a selfie stick and I know he is duck footed, both of those things are working against him but those are his choices.
> His first mistake is to not open the front knee on entry to a heel turn which results in him sitting on the actual toilet, the infamous carve forum people type of toilet, and they are right, it is bad.
> The first reason it is bad is that both his knees are bent equally in a middle of turn friendly position, its not easy to get into, nor get out of this position.
> The second reason it is bad is that it prohibits upper body rotation and rear femur rotation.
> The rail grab is also not advantageous as it reduces his ability to balance and completely blocks him from from rotating his upper body, a wash out or 180 out is almost guaranteed.
> Another thing I see in his videos is heel turn aversion, again dont shoot the messenger, watch his runs yourself and count the toe turns vs the heel turns. Avoiding heel turns is not a good way to get better at them.
> Finally I would add that he promotes cranking the highbacks which I know to be a great disadvantage for heel turns as that only increases board angle which is the enemy of lay down turns. Ryan himself taught me that when I studied his toe turn.
> 
> So there you go, and Ryan, I love you mate.
> 
> View attachment 153689


interest point

but move the front legs is not easily with a duck position it is not easy


----------



## Kijima

Olivetta said:


> i think it could be a prospective from the camera
> 
> for me the board is quite 90 degreee


RK is very talented at keeping his board angle less than 90 degrees.


----------



## Olivetta

there are an other reason why the snowboard are narrow, and it because it is not easy to make a large board and maintaining that quite rigide in the axial way 


by the way I am looking for a wide board too, but twin tip do you have some suggest?


----------



## Kijima

Olivetta said:


> super forward angles
> 
> Nice video
> 
> do you think that your heal turn it could be ok if you will use a duck angle?


No. 
That is why I stopped using duck stance. 
We can all choose a stance that makes us happy, duck does not make me happy


----------



## Olivetta

Kijima said:


> Duck stance angles make heel turns very difficult because it restricts the necessary upper body rotation while allowing excess upper body rotation for toe turns.
> This is the reason you see 99% of riders doing ok toe turns but terrible heel turns.
> I believe if a rider wants to learn good heel turns but retain duck stance they should learn it with FF angles and gradually return the back binding to duck stance once they fully understand the body positions required.
> It will take some muscle lengthening in the rear leg, but humans are very adaptable creatures.


yes but with duck stance you have to be very centred on the board and this is why many people look on the bathroom


----------



## Olivetta

Kijima said:


> No.
> That is why I stopped using duck stance.
> We can all choose a stance that makes us happy, duck does not make me happy


 agree with you


----------



## Kijima

I have a friend who carves FF in the morning and swaps to duck in the afternoon


----------



## Kijima

Olivetta said:


> I like your videos
> 
> but honestly i think that your angle set up are so out of the average angle of the other ridere that it is hard to compare


My stance angle changes to suit the board width.
If my board is wide the stance angles are less because I need to keep my big toe close to the edge.
If the board is narrow my stance angles increase or I will have toe overhang.

As long as I can rotate my upper body to the heel side position and toe side position I don't really care what my binding angles are.


----------



## Olivetta

Kijima said:


> I have a friend who carves FF in the morning and swaps to duck in the afternoon


Well for me it could be complicated

I use to ride for one or two weeks for year and I do not like the idea to go with two boards

by the way 

if you do not mind I will post a small video ( it is little bit old)

in the way we could see if your methods it could work for a normal duck rider


----------



## Olivetta

Kijima said:


> My stance angle changes to suit the board width.
> If my board is wide the stance angles are less because I need to keep my big toe close to the edge.
> If the board is narrow my stance angles increase or I will have toe overhang.


of course

what i mean it was that ride so forward it is very specific

it is mean that probably you will cruising al day

for my reality (Italy) it is hard to think because it always full of people on the track

I would love to ride in empty slope but it is not my situation


----------



## Olivetta

Kijima said:


> Duck stance angles make heel turns very difficult because it restricts the necessary upper body rotation while allowing excess upper body rotation for toe turns.
> This is the reason you see 99% of riders doing ok toe turns but terrible heel turns.
> I believe if a rider wants to learn good heel turns but retain duck stance they should learn it with FF angles and gradually return the back binding to duck stance once they fully understand the body positions required.
> It will take some muscle lengthening in the rear leg, but humans are very adaptable creatures.




__
http://instagr.am/p/BgzoRdLnGUH/


Please notice that it supposed to be a Black slope


----------



## Olivetta

Olivetta said:


> __
> http://instagr.am/p/BgzoRdLnGUH/


Actually I am riding a squid Prime wolkl 156W because like you I think that a wide board is helpfull for euorcarve ( I am looking for a wider board but it seems complicated to find)

my angle is 15 -15

like you can see it is hard to make a complet rotation on back side with a duck stance ( but I love to carve in bot side the for me the duck it si something that I love to do

What I am wondering it is your technics can be used in a duck application or only in forward situation like yours


----------



## Kijima

Olivetta said:


> Well for me it could be complicated
> 
> I use to ride for one or two weeks for year and I do not like the idea to go with two boards
> 
> by the way
> 
> if you do not mind I will post a small video ( it is little bit old)
> 
> in the way we could see if your methods it could work for a normal duck rider


Go with a screwdriver instead


----------



## Olivetta

Kijima said:


> Go with a screwdriver instead


no again 

I like to carve in both the way

that it is not an option


----------



## Kijima

Olivetta said:


> Actually I am riding a squid Prime wolkl 156W because like you I think that a wide board is helpfull for euorcarve ( I am looking for a wider board but it seems complicated to find)
> 
> my angle is 15 -15
> 
> like you can see it is hard to make a complet rotation on back side with a duck stance ( but I love to carve in bot side the for me the duck it si something that I love to do
> 
> What I am wondering it is your technics can be used in a duck application or only in forward situation like yours


You will never properly learn the correct body positions if you insist on learning it with a duck stance. Try and find some flexibility in your mindset, bindings are very easy to change, your reasons for not changing angles don't mean anything to me, only to you. 
Learn it with FF angles first, then gradually change the rear binding back to duck. 
You will need to stretch the muscles in your rear leg but with your enthusiasm Im sure you can do it lol. 

I am an old man so I am happy with FF stance lol.


----------



## Kijima

Nice riding BTW


----------



## Kijima

Olivetta said:


> no again
> 
> I like to carve in both the way
> 
> that it is not an option


You have inspired me to make a video showing the 2 simple upper body positions we need to achieve and the effect stance has on reaching these positions.


----------



## Olivetta

Kijima said:


> You will never properly learn the correct body positions if you insist on learning it with a duck stance. Try and find some flexibility in your mindset, bindings are very easy to change, your reasons for not changing angles don't mean anything to me, only to you.
> Learn it with FF angles first, then gradually change the rear binding back to duck.
> You will need to stretch the muscles in your rear leg but with your enthusiasm Im sure you can do it lol.
> 
> I am an old man so I am happy with FF stance lol.


I came from FF in the past ( I have few hard table too)

I think that we have a similar age (I am 1979) 

the point it is that i love to replicated in both way my carving

I am afraid that change my set up with FF it will not help on my porpoise 

but maybe I am wrong


----------



## Olivetta

Kijima said:


> Nice riding BTW


thanks your style is cool too


----------



## Olivetta

Kijima said:


> You have inspired me to make a video showing the 2 simple upper body positions we need to achieve and the effect stance has on reaching these positions.


seems cool to me 

please feel free 

an other things that i would share is that i am more comfortable to carve with a twin tip that with a a oriented board but probably it will be about my duck stance


----------



## Kijima

I made this just for you Olivetta


----------



## NT.Thunder

Kijima said:


> I made this just for you Olivetta


Love yr videos.

So I adjusted my bindings yesterday +/+ indoors just trying a few things and immediately found it so much more comfortable, had to narrow the stance width a little but felt relaxed posture wise, way less pressure on the back knee. The issue I had was when I started trying to ollie and nollie and press and seemed to have way less power and was really uncomfortable or unnatural, maybe it’s just a muscle memory thing. I know the +/+ is more focussed on carving compared to freestyle/park but was really surprised how noticeable the difference was straight away with just a few degrees change.


----------



## smellysell

NT.Thunder said:


> Love yr videos.
> 
> So I adjusted my bindings yesterday +/+ indoors just trying a few things and immediately found it so much more comfortable, had to narrow the stance width a little but felt relaxed posture wise, way less pressure on the back knee. The issue I had was when I started trying to ollie and nollie and press and seemed to have way less power and was really uncomfortable or unnatural, maybe it’s just a muscle memory thing. I know the +/+ is more focussed on carving compared to freestyle/park but was really surprised how noticeable the difference was straight away with just a few degrees change.


Same experience here, anything off the ground with ++ for me felt really sketchy. No power and balance was off.

I believe Knapton rides duck, so you definitely can still carve that way, just probably more difficult anatomically like Kijima is saying. 

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


----------



## Kijima

NT.Thunder said:


> Love yr videos.
> 
> So I adjusted my bindings yesterday +/+ indoors just trying a few things and immediately found it so much more comfortable, had to narrow the stance width a little but felt relaxed posture wise, way less pressure on the back knee. The issue I had was when I started trying to ollie and nollie and press and seemed to have way less power and was really uncomfortable or unnatural, maybe it’s just a muscle memory thing. I know the +/+ is more focussed on carving compared to freestyle/park but was really surprised how noticeable the difference was straight away with just a few degrees change.


Thanks bro. Everything is a give and take of course but I think you are right about muscle memory making it feel weird at first. That and people just hate to change lol.
For me snowboarding has become about the two unique experiences toe turns and heel turns give, and the moment of weightlessness as I rock into a heel turn, blindly giving myself up to gravity, momentarily weightless, flying you could say.
The ability to ride switch as easily as normal pales in comparison,


----------



## Kijima

I can feel a video about how I set up my FF angles coming on lol. I know it can feel sketch when its not set up properly, getting the big toes in a position of leverage is the key


----------



## Kijima

smellysell said:


> Same experience here, anything off the ground with ++ for me felt really sketchy. No power and balance was off.
> 
> I believe Knapton rides duck, so you definitely can still carve that way, just probably more difficult anatomically like Kijima is saying.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


I bet you were opening up your chest in the air, if you dont twist your upper body a bit to keep the shoulders square you will fall into the trap of landing slightly rotated heel side. When you go FF toe side is not neutral like it used to be anymore. Its super easy to get there but requires some input unlike duck which requires zero input to stay straight.
Its the same reason peeps always wash out to the heel side when they one foot, without the back foot squaring them up they naturally open the chest and begin heel friendly upper body rotation.
Try keeping the back hand near your butt cheek and that problem will disappear real quick


----------



## Olivetta

Kijima said:


> I made this just for you Olivetta


Thanks for the video



of course I agree with you, about the FF for carving help

but only in one side

I know that for many pepole The real carving it is only one side

but I love to carve in both

by The way you can compensate the back side issue with the right flexing of your knews


especially the front knew that it will help to go down and dept until you will reach the apex of the corner


an other question

I have the impression that your technic led you to use only the front part of the edge (maybe I am wrong because from your video I am not hunnderstand very well)

from what I have study

I knew that until you will mantein a certain movement of your knews you will give the right presure to your table and that give to you the grip for make your turn in control

but In your video (that are very cool) I have the impression that you gently laid down and after that you will let the table go with out pressure, like you are not in real control but you stay in a Wilde street and you let in go the table and you will follow her

for example If I go to wide with my stance I am not able to put the right pressure on the center of the table

that it means that when I go down for carving at the apex of the corner the table will not flex and I will not able to make the turn in my control but she will led me in a wide radius that she just decide her self

I hope that I explain may self in correct way


Let me know what do you think 

again thanks for the video


----------



## Kijima

Olivetta said:


> Thanks for the video
> 
> 
> 
> of course I agree with you, about the FF for carving help
> 
> but only in one side
> 
> I know that for many pepole The real carving it is only one side
> 
> but I love to carve in both
> 
> by The way you can compensate the back side issue with the right flexing of your knews
> 
> 
> especially the front knew that it will help to go down and dept until you will reach the apex of the corner
> 
> 
> an other question
> 
> I have the impression that your technic led you to use only the front part of the edge (maybe I am wrong because from your video I am not hunnderstand very well)
> 
> from what I have study
> 
> I knew that until you will mantein a certain movement of your knews you will give the right presure to your table and that give to you the grip for make your turn in control
> 
> but In your video (that are very cool) I have the impression that you gently laid down and after that you will let the table go with out pressure, like you are not in real control but you stay in a Wilde street and you let in go the table and you will follow her
> 
> for example If I go to wide with my stance I am not able to put the right pressure on the center of the table
> 
> that it means that when I go down for carving at the apex of the corner the table will not flex and I will not able to make the turn in my control but she will led me in a wide radius that she just decide her self
> 
> I hope that I explain may self in correct way
> 
> 
> Let me know what do you think
> 
> again thanks for the video


I make my own boards that are bamboo core and soft between the feet so they flex easily. I dont like stiff boards, bindings and boots.
My videos are of my worst riding, not my best riding. I dont think I am a good rider, only a good thinker.
If you listen to the sound you will hear my commentary, I am talking about the same things you are saying. I did not get back at the end of the turn and that is the problem.
I self study, I work out the problems and I fix them.


----------



## Kijima

If I were you I would work on removing the bend at your waist that remains throughout your toe turn, adding upper body rotation to your heel turn as it is static for the entirity and probably slow down a bit so you can complete a heel turn before you begin the toe turn. Coming in straight and fast makes it harder. 
We all have lots to work on.


----------



## Kijima

Your heel turn leaves 2 tracks and you get stuck on the toilet because the grab prohibits upper body rotation. I didnt see any switch. Maybe focus on the problems going forward before you worry about the switch.


----------



## Olivetta

Thanks for the suggestion

of course I am interesting in this trad because I am here for work on my self

for the two line in the heel side it was a black track in that video

very deep slope, I was quite happy at that time


actualy I do not have video about my switch riding

but I have to say that from I start to carve in switch too I was able co understand so match better the balance to be central on the board in both way

I think that it help a lot

carve in switch let you understand better where you are wrong

at list this it as my experience


----------



## Olivetta

Kijima said:


> Your heel turn leaves 2 tracks and you get stuck on the toilet because the grab prohibits upper body rotation. I didnt see any switch. Maybe focus on the problems going forward before you worry about the switch.
> View attachment 153785


That’s it right 

grab the board help for understand the balance and the movemnt for going down 

but in the end it could be a wrong way to do it


----------



## Olivetta

__
http://instagr.am/p/BtEKGBhHqLK/

i will put an other video (the only two that I have, quite old both)

this is in slow motion (red slope this time)

I always like to have a different point of view


----------



## WigMar

I was working on heelside carves with grabs early last season, and I abandoned that train of thought after awhile. I was having a really hard time exiting the turn cleanly. I also felt the grab made my upper body too static. Playing around with the grab did teach me a thing or two though. 

Most switch carvers I've seen really favor toeside carves. Riding duck stances sets you up for that well. They'll ride switch just so they don't have to carve heelside. 

I ride double positive angles and still ride switch occasionally. If the majority of your time is spent riding one direction, shouldn't your stance reflect that? Going double positive took so much stress off of my back knee. Kijima's video explained why very effectively.


----------



## Rip154

The most hardcore carvers grab roastbeef on heelside turns.


----------



## MrDavey2Shoes

I don’t know what that means but I think the proper response is aaayyyooooo!


----------



## Scalpelman

Kijima, excellent visual of forward stance advantage. I rock it on all my decks for the heelside advantage in carving. I feel like my shoulders guide me through the mountain.


----------



## Kijima

Olivetta said:


> That’s it right
> 
> grab the board help for understand the balance and the movemnt for going down
> 
> but in the end it could be a wrong way to do it


The heelside grab is a stepping stone. Most of us start off straight legging our heel turns and the grab teaches us to get low but once we learn the muscle memory of getting low the grab becomes a problem. 
If you look at your knees they remain equally bent throughout the entire turn, that is a product of the lack of upper body rotation which is a product of the grab. 
When you let go of the grab and begin trying to rotata you will then run into the problem of the duck foot. 
At that point you can either change stance or increase your flexibility in order to achieve the heel side upper body position. 
Stepping stones.


----------



## Kijima

Scalpelman said:


> Kijima, excellent visual of forward stance advantage. I rock it on all my decks for the heelside advantage in carving. I feel like my shoulders guide me through the mountain.


It is a nice feeling I agree.
We have the two upper body positions we need to achieve and every thing else should be a gradual transition from one of those positions to the other, rising only for the toe turn, staying low throughout the heel turn. Never stop that flow or the turn becomes static.
Next time you get a chance just note the small amount of effort required to achieve the toe turn position. Its not much but failing to get there results in the weirdness I think most people feel as they begin to experiment with FF stance.
I bet it scares a lot of people back to duck.


----------



## Kijima

One thing I realize now is how we need to be stronger in the back leg than the front as we fall in to our turns but have to push our way out. The back leg does a lot more work.
Over summer I am going to allow my weight to shift to my right leg during squats, and not just when Im exercising, we squat many times in our daily life and each one is a genuine opportunity to become a better snowboarder. Its like free training, grab that shit.


----------



## Scalpelman

Kijima said:


> It is a nice feeling I agree.
> We have the two upper body positions we need to achieve and every thing else should be a gradual transition from one of those positions to the other, rising only for the toe turn, staying low throughout the heel turn. Never stop that flow or the turn becomes static.
> Next time you get a chance just note the small amount of effort required to achieve the toe turn position. Its not much but failing to get there results in the weirdness I think most people feel as they begin to experiment with FF stance.
> I bet it scares a lot of people back to duck.


Yeah toe is a breeze. FF allows more force transfer to the edge on heelside.


----------



## Olivetta

There is something in my mind that I have to discover 

do you think that when you go deep in heel side is it possible to go down with the upper body like we use to do on the toe side 

or there is a mechanical explanation because we are always vertical with the upper body when we are going on heel side ?

do you think that it is psycho or fisico limitation ?


----------



## Kijima

Olivetta said:


> There is something in my mind that I have to discover
> 
> do you think that when you go deep in heel side is it possible to go down with the upper body like we use to do on the toe side
> 
> or there is a mechanical explanation because we are always vertical with the upper body when we are going on heel side ?
> 
> do you think that it is psycho or fisico limitation ?


It can be done. I sometimes do it for a laugh, even letting my helmet touch the snow in a full heel side lay down turn but there is not much pressure on the snowboard and you cannot rotate the upper body so the turn becomes static.
Staying bent at the waist in heel turns keeps a lot of pressure on the edge.

I would like you to go back to basics next time you ride and prove these points to yourself. Once you prove them to yourself you will see why I am trying to create this method in the way that I am.

Point 1. The front knee open starts a heel turn, the front knee in starts a toe turn. Do a run where you only move your front knee and feel it steer you left and right.
Point 2. Sitting on the toilet puts pressure on the heel edge, pushing the hips forward puts pressure on the toe edge.
Point 3. Upper body rotation will finish your turns for you.

Those are all facts to me and I will never accept anything but those positions in my own riding because I have proven to myself that they are very effective positions. My goal is to stitch them all together into a single, brutally effective carving method and then share it for free with anybody that is interested.

Lots of people have good toe turns but poor heel turns.
Lots of people have good heel turns but remain bent at the waist in toe turns, Japanese carving is almost 100% like this.
You will know bent at the waist in a toe turn is bad when you go back to basics, when you know that, you cannot accept it in your own riding ever again.

Next season I will no doubt achieve my goal because understanding the concept is 95% of the battle and I absolutely understand the concepts now. The other 5% is body strength and flexibility and I have all summer to work on that, and I know exactly what I need to work on. Ankle dorsiflexion and rear leg strength.

It took me the entire season to work it all out.

Its the mind that will take you there, the body just has to be able.


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## Jkb818

Sick turns bro! I have a lot to learn still. Can I see pics of the 142 size board?


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## Rip154

Olivetta said:


> There is something in my mind that I have to discover
> 
> do you think that when you go deep in heel side is it possible to go down with the upper body like we use to do on the toe side
> 
> or there is a mechanical explanation because we are always vertical with the upper body when we are going on heel side ?
> 
> do you think that it is psycho or fisico limitation ?


Only seen that in Japan. They get down into a heelturn, then rotate shoulders back and use them for support on the snow, then roll shoulders back up and finish the turn.


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## Kijima

Rip154 said:


> Only seen that in Japan. They get down into a heelturn, then rotate shoulders back and use them for support on the snow, then roll shoulders back up and finish the turn.


Every morning I do my exercises for 10 mins,in that time I am snowboarding in my mind. Olivetta had planted this concept firmly in my mind lol so I had a look into the body mechanics.
I found that the upper body is where most of our weight is and therefore it is our source of pressure over the snowboard.

Imagine you were to put a sheet down on the grass for a picnic or whatever but it was a little windy, you would put some rocks or something heavy on top to hold it down right? That works.
So our upper body is the rock, and our snowboard is the thing we are trying to hold down but because we have long legs we need to keep our body weight stacked in a certain way so that all of our force is delivered to the snowboard.
As soon as we go beyond a certain point of upper body inclination that weight stops being delivered down through our legs to the board and takes the direct path back to the ground. Board pressure is instantly lost as a result.
There is a tipping point and staying bent at the waist keeps us on the right side of it.
Laying flat is totally possible, especially with a little help from slope angle and momentum to help us stand back up but try doing in on flat ground at the end of a run, you wont get back up.
It is but a party trick, parties are fun right, but you cant party forever. I have tried that in a previous life lol.

For the very same reason, staying bent at the waist in a toe turn is to lose down weight.
Instead of a direct line to the board we now make a kind of Z shape and energy is lost through compression of the body. You can squash a Z shape easier than an I shape. The more momentum and gravity we have with us the more we compress.
The soul arch toe turn body position is not just a direct line, but a slightly pre loaded position that helps fight compression, its the same reason they make bridges with a slight curve to the road rather than making it dead flat. Its almost like a fk you to gravity lol.
Hey gravity you cant touch me cause Im slightly preloaded the other way.


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## Kijima

Jkb818 said:


> Sick turns bro! I have a lot to learn still. Can I see pics of the 142 size board?


Thanks man. I made a heap of them starting at 26cm waist/8m radius up to 32cm waist with radii up to 16m.
This is the 32cm/12m I spent 90% of my season on but I finished the season on a 27cm board after fully accepting myself as a FF stance rider and simply rotating my binding angles around more to get the exact same gaps from my big toes to the edge that I had riding duck foot on this 32cm board. 5cm of board width weighs a fair bit you know.


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## Kijima

This one is a 30cm waist 12m radius


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## Kijima

This one is 26cm /8m radius


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## Kijima

And a couple more 26cm 8m boards with the the board art/specs printed on. 
These 2 went to the winners of a local banked slalom contest.


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## Kijima

If you watch this you will see lots of lay down turns in all styles. The ones who lay flat in heel turns rarely show the end of the turn, or they spin out/180 out of the turn. Zero clean turn completions from fully laid out heel turns, not many clean turn heel turn completions at all really.
Also note how one guy who seems like the leader gets his hips flat in toe turns but the rest all remain bent at the waist, bums in the sky.
2 months ago all I saw was laydowns everywhere, now I see problems and cover ups everywhere.


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## NT.Thunder

Nice looking boards man


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## Kijima

NT.Thunder said:


> Nice looking boards man


Thanks man.
They go better than they look too not that it means much coming from me lol!
The things I have learned end up as tech in my boards,very quickly too as I just have to walk 50m to my workshop to start a new board, not send files to china and wait for them to build and ship them back to me. It will be years before the others catch on, I just hope corona doesn't fk me launching in 20/21 lol. Fingers crossed.


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## Olivetta

I do not like so much. That guys in this video 

they put they self on the flor quit static

I do not see pressione in their table


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## Olivetta

Kijima said:


> Thanks man. I made a heap of them starting at 26cm waist/8m radius up to 32cm waist with radii up to 16m.
> This is the 32cm/12m I spent 90% of my season on but I finished the season on a 27cm board after fully accepting myself as a FF stance rider and simply rotating my binding angles around more to get the exact same gaps from my big toes to the edge that I had riding duck foot on this 32cm board. 5cm of board width weighs a fair bit you know.
> View attachment 153796


The. You actually came back in a normale 27 cm?

with what kind of radius?


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## MrDavey2Shoes

Nice top sheets on those boards. That downchill video is forum canon. Lol


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## Kijima

Olivetta said:


> The. You actually came back in a normale 27 cm?
> 
> with what kind of radius?


I did. I finished the season on 2 boards that were both 27cm thanks to FF stance.
This is the 152 twin you can see in one of my videos. It has 10m radius. 










And below is also 152 but long edge carve board with 14m radius


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## Olivetta

Let me tell you your board look amazing


Kijima said:


> I did. I finished the season on 2 boards that were both 27cm thanks to FF stance.
> This is the 152 twin you can see in one of my videos. It has 10m radius.
> View attachment 153804
> 
> 
> 
> And below is also 152 but long edge carve board with 14m radius
> View attachment 153805


----------



## Olivetta

Do you felling big differenze from the two radius?


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## Kijima

Olivetta said:


> Do you felling big differenze from the two radius?


At high board angles they both perform the same but because the 10m board has a shorter edge, it does not need to flex as much, at low angles the 10m board is much easier to ride.
Long edges force the board to use a bigger radius and that results in a board that is hard to ride at low angles.
Short edges have a real advantage IMO
My hybrid carve board (I have not shown this board in public) takes the best features of both so it rides like the 10m short edge board at low angles but the 14m long edge board at high angles. The hybrid carve board is new tech to snowboarding that I am releasing next season. Shit is about to change.


----------



## Jkb818

Kijima said:


> At high board angles they both perform the same but because the 10m board has a shorter edge, it does not need to flex as much, at low angles the 10m board is much easier to ride.
> Long edges force the board to use a bigger radius and that results in a board that is hard to ride at low angles.
> Short edges have a real advantage IMO
> My hybrid carve board (I have not shown this board in public) takes the best features of both so it rides like the 10m short edge board at low angles but the 14m long edge board at high angles. The hybrid carve board is new tech to snowboarding that I am releasing next season. Shit is about to change.


if you need someone in utah to do product testing let me know!


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## Kijima

Jkb818 said:


> if you need someone in utah to do product testing let me know!


If you guys in N America want to try my boards in a cost effective way we would need to do it as a group buy and send the lot to one person, then have that person send the boards out locally. 
You guys would all need to trust each other, I would send them out as cheaply as I can. 
It can be done. Direct sales talk small business owners language lol


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## Olivetta

One question 

essentially you are not caring about the dimension of the board

If you useride with a 30 cm large and 152 loang board

and now you use 27 cm x 152 cm

there is a big differenze of the square size of the board


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## Scalpelman

Couple observations. First the top sheet is beautiful. What kind of wood? Secondly those are long radius on relatively shorter length boards? How does that translate to your carving style?


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## Kijima

Olivetta said:


> One question
> 
> essentially you are not caring about the dimension of the board
> 
> If you useride with a 30 cm large and 152 loang board
> 
> and now you use 27 cm x 152 cm
> 
> there is a big differenze of the square size of the board


I went from 32cm waist to 27cm waist while maintaining the same clearance. Its like having a fat girlfriend that got skinny lol.
You have 2 edges and you either boot out or you dont. FF stance has many advantages for me.


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## robotfood99

Sexy shapes and topsheets! I'd be all over the 26cm 8m models...


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## Kijima

Scalpelman said:


> Couple observations. First the top sheet is beautiful. What kind of wood? Secondly those are long radius on relatively shorter length boards? How does that translate to your carving style?


Thank you Scalpelman. I have 4 different types of timber for the top sheets, all sustainably sourced of course. The names I have on the papers are botanical names of the species, log numbers and everything.
Sidecut radius and edge length both play an equal role in the turn size a board will make. When you imagine a board flexing in high angle turn so that its entire edge stays firmly planted in the snow you can see that the longer the edge is, the more it must bend. 
So lets take 2 boards with the same radius, say 10m because its a nice round number. Now a board with a short edge will flex a certain amount to maintain its edge in the snow. A longer edge board, with exactly the same 10m radius will need to flex more and as a result the longer edge, the exact same radius board will make smaller turns and be much harder to control as a result, kind of like a wild horse bucking the rider. Its not conductive to making big clean turns at all and results in J turns, slow starts with hooky quick completions. Short edges, matched with the right radii are somewhat magical for making big steady turn shapes.

So I experimented with edges from 100cm to 136cm this season and sidecuts from 8m to 16m. I learned a lot.
Not all of the combinations I rode this year will make it into production, some were amazing, some were down right hard work. 
I have learned there is a sweet spot, a ratio of edge length vs radius that produces the clean turn shape and the time in turn we desire, without the side effects we can most certainly do without. Its no good to say a certain radius is good without referencing the edge length as they are absolutely bedfellows and changing one without the other has a big effect, not always in a good way.
To put it simply its some complex shit but I really got my head around it. 

Learning what I did this season allowed me to predict, as I lay in bed, a really odd ball combo that made mathematical sense in my mind, so I built that board with only 2 weeks left in the season and honestly, I found an absolute gem that nobody could possibly stumble across unless they walked the walk I did this season. Im sure by now its obvious that I took a very different path to everyone else who shapes boards, to be honest I dont even know who shapes all the boards out there lol. Who are they and what are their qualifications? I know mine.
This oddball combo blew my fking mind, and that aint easy let me tell you. Im calling it hybrid carve tech,and one of my models will have it next year in 152 and 158 length with 26,27, 28 and 30cm waist widths.
Unfortunately I have to keep the details under my hat or the industry will just assume it and Ill be left here feeding off the scraps lol. Those who take a gamble on it next season will be smiling I promise.


----------



## Kijima

robotfood99 said:


> Sexy shapes and topsheets! I'd be all over the 26cm 8m models...


Thanks man 🤟


----------



## lifeisgold

Love this thread though not the salty complaints :/ (its the _internet _dudes)

Anyhow Kijima your posts got me thinking, if we view the turn as the body moving on top of the board rather then the legs moving the board itself there is a clear and obvious flaw to our snowboard set up. Like most sports the twisting motion is were the energy is generated (Either through the core/hips twisting on the turn or through or at the legs initially etc.... ) but in weird twist (pun def. intended) the board itself stops this motion.Imagine a boxer trying to throw a straight or a hook with his back foot glued to the floor! There would be no power at all. (similarly a Thai boxer his kick a baseball or golf swing etc.)

So what if we designed a binding that pivoted from side to side that as you made the turn motion your angle went from say -15 to 20 imagine the speed and power that would generate!

Obviously I would start by only having the back binding pivot so that you could remain stable.

Also you could maybe even have it so that like the aforementioned boxer only the toes were strapped to the board and as you turned the heel could lift (also sort of like a tele-skier)

What do you think? To far fetched?
Thanks


----------



## Kijima

lifeisgold said:


> Also you could maybe even have it so that like the aforementioned boxer only the toes were strapped to the board and as you turned the heel could lift (also sort of like a tele-skier)
> 
> What do you think? To far fetched?
> Thanks


Im already playing with a pair of jacked up, modified NOW binding that rock significantly from toe edge to heel edge. I already know its going to work well for me and others who ride at high board angles but we are a small market. 
Every gift comes with a price tag and what I believe will surely help us extreme carvers, I also know is sure to hurt regular snowboarders. 
Truth is this is a jerry sport and we are the exception, sometimes anyway lol.


----------



## WigMar

lifeisgold said:


> So what if we designed a binding that pivoted from side to side that as you made the turn motion your angle went from say -15 to 20 imagine the speed and power that would generate!


Are you talking about rotational bindings? I've seen a rotational binding or two out there in the world already. My initial thoughts were that it could help skating around if you had mobility issues, but I was afraid the binding would turn too much and destroy your knee. If you limited rotation to say 5-10 degrees it might be safer to try out. 



Kijima said:


> Truth is this is a jerry sport and we are the exception, sometimes anyway lol.


This is a Jerry sport! Very few of us are chasing the perfect turn. I'm intrigued by this increased dorsiflexion theory. I'd like to see those modified Now in action. Your ankles and feet could power through and control board angle without it being dictated by a fixed binding angle. Adding heel lift is undeniably radical!


----------



## MrDavey2Shoes

@Kijima will boardship with Dorisflection for toeside T shirts?

Did you get to try your boards on really hard snow? I’m wary of short EE in those conditions. But curious.

Say we managed to organize a group buy, what kind of price point are you thinking for the boards?


----------



## lifeisgold

WigMar said:


> Are you talking about rotational bindings? I've seen a rotational binding or two out there in the world already. My initial thoughts were that it could help skating around if you had mobility issues, but I was afraid the binding would turn too much and destroy your knee. If you limited rotation to say 5-10 degrees it might be safer to try out.


I just looked this up and you are right these things have been around for ages! I have never heard of these things. People have been making rotational bindings since the early 2000's, mostly they were for skating once you got to the line or when stuck in the flats but some were meant to be ridden like I was suggesting. Those design's just seem crazy to me, both bindings spin 360 degrees once unlocked. It most feel like one of the most unstable boards eve to ride. I was saying just have the back foot move and at most rotate 35 degrees.... Also I would think you would want resistance you wouldn't want the foot to just spin in place that quickly...

Anyhow thank for sharing, learnt something new today


----------



## Kijima

WigMar said:


> If you limited rotation to say 5-10 degrees it might be safer to try out.


One of the reasons my fav pair of bindings were the 2011 flow NXT AT chassis with burton straps is that the chassis is L/XL size and wide AF. My boots move angles within the binding.
Slop tech is real lol.
Slop in boots with the exception of heel lift is productive. Buy big comfy boots and heel wedge the fk out of them to stop heel lift. The next pair of boots I buy Im going up a full size from US10 to US11 to gain more comfort, now that I run FF stance I no longer care how long my boot is. Im stretching out into comfort over reduced footprint.

Slop in bindings with the exception of the toe strap is productive. I now run my top binding straps loose AF, especially on the back foot to reduce board angle, this shit is all factual to me.





WigMar said:


> This is a Jerry sport! Very few of us are chasing the perfect turn. I'm intrigued by this increased dorsiflexion theory. I'd like to see those modified Now in action. Your ankles and feet could power through and control board angle without it being dictated by a fixed binding angle. Adding heel lift is undeniably radical!


You see clearly, future is bright my friend.

The fact that this sport is now old, or oldish leads people to believe that all the answers lie in the past, but if snowboarding is to progress it absolutely needs some answers to lie in the future.
Lots of peeps scoff at me for simply having a look. Like Mig fullbag laughing at me months back saying carvers have been carving for years and all I was finding was what they already found in the 82/83 season when lycra was the in thing. A few replies later was me screaming THE HULA HOOP WORKS...

When we stop looking, we stop finding.

Knapton prompted me to look. All hail Knapton.


----------



## Kijima

MrDavey2Shoes said:


> @Kijima will boardship with Dorisflection for toeside T shirts?


I really really want this to happen lol. 
Guess who the king of dorsiflection seems to be? Look at those hips forward too lmfao.
MJ would have been a wicked carver, straight on the team.












MrDavey2Shoes said:


> Did you get to try your boards on really hard snow? I’m wary of short EE in those conditions. But curious.


You are correct. Where I live and ride the sun has a big effect on the snow, so throughout the day, on a clear day, conditions change fairly rapidly which is great for testing boards because I can see the effects across a broad spectrum of conditions in a single day.
In the cold cold mornings on the shortest board, the Taiyaki with 100cm edge, the ones with the bigger radius, 12m, 14m and 16m were prone to becoming stuck in the grooves of the groomer. As my turns came around and lined up with a groove I was having these unexplainable wipe outs.
I traced it down to being that there was so little sidecut depth on these short edge, long radius boards that the entire edge could exist within a single groomer groove, and if that groove was hard enough there was no way out. I even went to the extreme of filing the edges into a razor sharp angle at that point on the board but occasionally it still happened so I moved away from riding those boards on the super cold mornings, those crashes fking hurt lol.
Once the snow had softened I would pull those boards back out and all was good.
So for guys who consistently ride in cold cold conditions I would never recommend such a combo. Because radius and edge length are bedfellows we can get around it in two ways, both of which provide different characteristics.
1. We can change to a smaller radius, dont run 12,14 or 16m. Run 8m or 10m. This keeps the care free playfulness of the 1m edge length but provides more sidecut depth so that it becomes impossible for your entire edge to slot into a single groomer groove, the edge has too much curve to it and will always fall across more than one groomer groove. Problem solved.
2. We can keep the same large radius but increase edge length which has the same effect on sidecut depth, disallowing the board to fit into a single groove, but with a longer edge comes loss of playfulness, more traction is gained, but more traction is not always a good thing. Long edges are harder to control and far less nimble.
Think about a police man trying to wack a crowd of peaceful protesters lol. If he uses a short baton he is nimble, he can wack a lot of people very quickly. If he uses a long baton, not so nimble, he needs more time to line up his target, more time to swing it back, more time to wack you. You might move out of his way before he kicks your peacefully protesting ass lol.

Long edge board behave exactly like this, you need to plan those turns earlier and commit harder. For big open resorts this is no problem, for tight, busy resorts its a huge problem.
If you know who you are, and what your requirements are I can provide guidance in board design that I guarantee will work for you. No guess work.



MrDavey2Shoes said:


> Say we managed to organize a group buy, what kind of price point are you thinking for the boards?


Lets take this out of the public spectrum. Send me a pm and I will happily reply mate.


----------



## zc1

Kijima said:


> Point 1. The front knee open starts a heel turn, the front knee in starts a toe turn. Do a run where you only move your front knee and feel it steer you left and right.
> Point 2. Sitting on the toilet puts pressure on the heel edge, pushing the hips forward puts pressure on the toe edge.
> Point 3. Upper body rotation will finish your turns for you.


I agree with these points. All of these concepts (in spirit, not in exact wording) are currently part of CASI-driven snowboard instruction in Canada. Weakness in dorsiflexion is something that I like to point out in advanced lessons and sessions. The way most get around it, and what propagates the problem even further, is stiff boots. The more you care about technical riding, the more undesirable stiff boots become.

But as has been pointed out, the majority of snowboarders don't care about perfect turns or 'full' range of ankle movements and their contribution to riding. They can get by just fine with their boots locking their ankles at 80 +/- 5 degrees.


----------



## Kijima

zc1 said:


> I agree with these points. All of these concepts (in spirit, not in exact wording) are currently part of CASI-driven snowboard instruction in Canada. Weakness in dorsiflexion is something that I like to point out in advanced lessons and sessions. The way most get around it, and what propagates the problem even further, is stiff boots. The more you care about technical riding, the more undesirable stiff boots become.
> 
> But as has been pointed out, the majority of snowboarders don't care about perfect turns or 'full' range of ankle movements and their contribution to riding. They can get by just fine with their boots locking their ankles at 80 +/- 5 degrees.


I totally agree mate.
Where this ended up I could never have planned or expected and I dont claim to have invented (for lack of a better word) anything. All I did was consider every problem that came before me in a methodical way, leaving all options on the table as I did it.
The real gem was finding the hula hoop motion, it goes totally against what popular theory says a toe turn should be. Ill hang my hat on that and be done.
Simplification is key, how many pages does that CASI book have anyway? Ive never seen it.
Lets all just become better snowboarders, and lets all open our minds to future possibilities.


----------



## Scalpelman

Kijima said:


> I really really want this to happen lol.
> Guess who the king of dorsiflection seems to be? Look at those hips forward too lmfao.
> MJ would have been a wicked carver, straight on the team.
> 
> View attachment 153831
> 
> 
> 
> You are correct. Where I live and ride the sun has a big effect on the snow, so throughout the day, on a clear day, conditions change fairly rapidly which is great for testing boards because I can see the effects across a broad spectrum of conditions in a single day.
> In the cold cold mornings on the shortest board, the Taiyaki with 100cm edge, the ones with the bigger radius, 12m, 14m and 16m were prone to becoming stuck in the grooves of the groomer. As my turns came around and lined up with a groove I was having these unexplainable wipe outs.
> I traced it down to being that there was so little sidecut depth on these short edge, long radius boards that the entire edge could exist within a single groomer groove, and if that groove was hard enough there was no way out. I even went to the extreme of filing the edges into a razor sharp angle at that point on the board but occasionally it still happened so I moved away from riding those boards on the super cold mornings, those crashes fking hurt lol.
> Once the snow had softened I would pull those boards back out and all was good.
> So for guys who consistently ride in cold cold conditions I would never recommend such a combo. Because radius and edge length are bedfellows we can get around it in two ways, both of which provide different characteristics.
> 1. We can change to a smaller radius, dont run 12,14 or 16m. Run 8m or 10m. This keeps the care free playfulness of the 1m edge length but provides more sidecut depth so that it becomes impossible for your entire edge to slot into a single groomer groove, the edge has too much curve to it and will always fall across more than one groomer groove. Problem solved.
> 2. We can keep the same large radius but increase edge length which has the same effect on sidecut depth, disallowing the board to fit into a single groove, but with a longer edge comes loss of playfulness, more traction is gained, but more traction is not always a good thing. Long edges are harder to control and far less nimble.
> Think about a police man trying to wack a crowd of peaceful protesters lol. If he uses a short baton he is nimble, he can wack a lot of people very quickly. If he uses a long baton, not so nimble, he needs more time to line up his target, more time to swing it back, more time to wack you. You might move out of his way before he kicks your peacefully protesting ass lol.
> 
> Long edge board behave exactly like this, you need to plan those turns earlier and commit harder. For big open resorts this is no problem, for tight, busy resorts its a huge problem.
> If you know who you are, and what your requirements are I can provide guidance in board design that I guarantee will work for you. No guess work.
> 
> 
> Lets take this out of the public spectrum. Send me a pm and I will happily reply mate.


So me, the ice coaster, wouldn’t fare well with the long radius shortie? Kinda bummed. Seems like a cool combo. I watched a video last year that discusses radius and board flex. The two are intimately associated. Are your boards stiff, soft or in between?


----------



## Kijima

Scalpelman said:


> So me, the ice coaster, wouldn’t fare well with the long radius shortie? Kinda bummed. Seems like a cool combo. I watched a video last year that discusses radius and board flex. The two are intimately associated. Are your boards stiff, soft or in between?


You can ride such a board once the snow softens. It's really only the first hour of the day, or shady aspects where it happens to me. Conditions always change.
My boards are thiner than any board you have ever seen, some peeps need to grind a bit off the length of their binding screws.
Bamboo core, so flexy by default.
And the core profile is even thinner between the feet to promote flex right where we need it.
Its a brutally effective combo inmy opinion.
It will get copied.


----------



## Scalpelman

I always found that there is a need for some dampness when carving. Need to plow through imperfections in the snow without altering the carve line. those imperfections cause vibrations to resonate to the thighs. If it’s just for a few hours it’s not a big deal. But all day long is wearing. However if the board is too damp, the loss of pop is disappointing.


----------



## Kijima

Scalpelman said:


> I always found that there is a need for some dampness when carving. Need to plow through imperfections in the snow without altering the carve line. those imperfections cause vibrations to resonate to the thighs. If it’s just for a few hours it’s not a big deal. But all day long is wearing. However if the board is too damp, the loss of pop is disappointing.


When I get choppy conditions I push my front foot forward and back foot back into the bindings. This makes my whole body more a part of the board than it was before, like a big A frame which really really helps distribute the shock rather than allowing the all the shock to be adsorbed into the ankle and knee joints. Become proactive rather than reactive to bumpy conditions.
I wrote a post about it mid season and got criticized strongly, so never bothered to say any more about it, but it works.

I would like you to get your board on the floor and tilt it right up like it were doing a lay down turn. See how much force is required to complete the bend required to keep the whole edge in contact as it tilts over.
Its a lot. That too is taxing on your body.
When we get this between the feet flex wrong we see the strange double line in our tracks like we could see in Olivettas heel track a few pages back.
I can make you a board without thinning the core between the feet but Id rather you enjoy the flex that works so well in the turn, and try the alternative way of soaking up bumps in the snow.


----------



## zc1

Kijima said:


> I totally agree mate.
> Where this ended up I could never have planned or expected and I dont claim to have invented (for lack of a better word) anything. All I did was consider every problem that came before me in a methodical way, leaving all options on the table as I did it.
> The real gem was finding the hula hoop motion, it goes totally against what popular theory says a toe turn should be. Ill hang my hat on that and be done.
> Simplification is key, how many pages does that CASI book have anyway? Ive never seen it.
> Lets all just become better snowboarders, and lets all open our minds to future possibilities.


Haha, I'd be guessing, but it has a lot. I haven't paid attention to the number of pages. It's an instructor manual, just like any other teaching manual, so it outlines concepts and then goes into detail explaining them. The manual is for instructors, not students. It's up to the instructor to present the material in a way that is relevant to and applicable by the student...which is where the instructor courses come in -- they introduce instruction theory and mindset, and it's up to the instructor to take it wherever they like. 

Just as university science courses introduce the basics of critical thinking, and scientific method then it's up to you to apply them or not. Some instructors just teach what's in the book and nothing more, and some continue to analyze and learn as you do. They become 'students of the sport.' It's an old term, but I first heard it only a year-or-so ago in an interview with Mikaela Shiffrin. That's my approach to snowboarding, and clearly yours as well.


----------



## Kijima

zc1 said:


> They become 'students of the sport.' That's my approach to snowboarding, and clearly yours as well.


It leads to guaranteed happiness 🤟 🤟 🤟


----------



## WigMar

Kijima said:


> Simplification is key, how many pages does that CASI book have anyway? Ive never seen it.
> Lets all just become better snowboarders, and lets all open our minds to future possibilities.


I saved the New Zealand snowboard instructors manual someone posted in an earlier thread. It's 342 pages. 

Progression makes me happy. Cheers to being a student of the sport. I'm constantly excited there is still so much to discover.


----------



## NT.Thunder

WigMar said:


> I saved the New Zealand snowboard instructors manual someone posted in an earlier thread. It's 342 pages.
> 
> Progression makes me happy. Cheers to being a student of the sport. I'm constantly excited there is still so much to discover.


Ohhh, I know what I'm doing these next few days during lock-down - thanks


----------



## zc1

WigMar said:


> I saved the New Zealand snowboard instructors manual someone posted in an earlier thread. It's 342 pages.
> 
> Progression makes me happy. Cheers to being a student of the sport. I'm constantly excited there is still so much to discover.


That's very comprehensive. Made me curious enough to take the CASI one off the shelf and check it -- 188 pages, haha.

There's a link to the CASI one on their Facebook page, but here's the direct link: CASI Reference Guide (2018)


----------



## Kijima

WigMar said:


> I saved the New Zealand snowboard instructors manual someone posted in an earlier thread. It's 342 pages.


Concise 



WigMar said:


> Progression makes me happy. Cheers to being a student of the sport. I'm constantly excited there is still so much to discover.




btw I just discovered the smilies


----------



## Kijima

My book be like...
Page 1. Open front knee
Page 2. sit on toilet...
Page 7. The end

Kids be like... I got this!


----------



## Kijima

Like panning for gold.
CASI just says, gold looks like this, heres a pan, and theres the river.


----------



## Kijima

double post


----------



## Kijima

Im online too much today I can feel it LOL
I went dog powered longboarding today with my 8 month old border collie and she nearly got under my wheels at speed. I had to bail to avoid running her over and now Im kinda banged up, Gory pic below








__
Sensitive content, not recommended for those under 18
Show Content


----------



## NT.Thunder

Great dogs, I've got a caramel Border Collie pure bred, from a working dog line. Just runs all day.

The Caramel Ghost


----------



## Kijima

NT.Thunder said:


> Great dogs, I've got a caramel Border Collie pure bred, from a working dog line. Just runs all day.
> 
> The Caramel Ghost
> View attachment 153836


Same eyes. 
Lets go ay


----------



## NT.Thunder

Might have to buy some knee pads before I ride the longboard.

So smart Border Collies, I haven't had him on a lead for years. Stops at roads and waits, comes when called, just so clever. Having space is the key though, we've got 5 acres and he just loves the space. Not much of a guard dog though.


----------



## Kijima

NT.Thunder said:


> Might have to buy some knee pads before I ride the longboard.
> 
> So smart Border Collies, I haven't had him on a lead for years. Stops at roads and waits, comes when called, just so clever. Having space is the key though, we've got 5 acres and he just loves the space. Not much of a guard dog though.


The triple 8 helmets and pads are all very small fitting
size up hard if you buy it


----------



## zc1

Kijima said:


> Like panning for gold.
> CASI just says, gold looks like this, heres a pan, and theres the river.


Haha, a bit of an exaggeration. The beginner progression is pretty thorough. Overall, though, the pedagogy is presented in the actual instructor courses. A picture is worth a thousand words. It's a lot of doing, not reading.


----------



## zc1

My go-to gear on the street is a helmet and gloves. Older I get the more I think about wrist guards, though.


----------



## zc1

@Kijima Is your entire lineup going to be carving boards? You may have said it earlier in the thread but I tuned in late. Can you provide brief descriptions/one liners for the boards in the line?


----------



## Kijima

zc1 said:


> Haha, a bit of an exaggeration. The beginner progression is pretty thorough. Overall, though, the pedagogy is presented in the actual instructor courses. A picture is worth a thousand words. It's a lot of doing, not reading.


I make that statement having never read the book lol


----------



## Kijima

zc1 said:


> @Kijima Is your entire lineup going to be carving boards? You may have said it earlier in the thread but I tuned in late. Can you provide brief descriptions/one liners for the boards in the line?


No no not at all, I live in one of the powder snow capitals of the world, January is all about powder here so I have 2 pow boards for now, one of which is the same Taiyaki board I rode 95% of the season on variations of. Many widths up to suuuuuuper wide.

1.Thats the 142 no tail shortie pow stick, rides pow like a jet ski. Scrubby trees? 50cm pow or less, ride this one.
2. Then I have Kiotoshi which means tree drop in Japanese, its the long skinny pow board, rides pow more like a yacht through the islands. You got nicely spaced trees? dumps 50cm to 1m overnight? Ride this one. 152cm and 162cm
3.The Onsen Tamago is a flexy twin. 152cm 158cm, widths up to cra cray also.
4.Gerende Cutter is a full carve board
5.And my personal fav, the hybrid carver which has its own carve/play thing going on.

2 pow sticks
1 twin and
2 carvers

Lots of sidecut radii
Lots of widths up to suuuuper wide.


----------



## kieloa

Kijima said:


> Knapton prompted me to look. All hail Knapton.


Knaptons riding is so ugly, that I can't even watch it. Ugh. I take those Japanese unpure riders over him every day.

But it's a great thing that you can look outside of the box!


----------



## Kijima

kieloa said:


> Knaptons riding is so ugly, that I can't even watch it. Ugh. I take those Japanese unpure riders over him every day.
> 
> But it's a great thing that you can look outside of the box!


Thats not true at all to me.
I think Knapton has the best toe turn in the game. Nobody gets their hips so close to the snow every day of the week like he does.
Japanese carvers typically do mad heel turns but all stay in the toilet on toe turns, Ive not found the hips to the snow Japanese carver on youtube anyway.
As soon as I see bums in the air for toe turns I stop paying attention lol

Im trying to mix them both in my own riding


----------



## Kijima

You can watch hours and hours of graceful Japanese carvers like this Rama109 dude who are one of the most popular in Japan but you wont see a toe turn like Knaptons
I reckon if Ryan went FF stance he would have heel turns down in a week and we would all see a true boss in his prime.


----------



## Kijima

When Ryan Knapton turns his back foot around we will all know that we have seen the Jesus of carving


----------



## Kijima

Think about the 2 different cultures, asian and western. If you go back to the roots of each culture, fighting was the sport of the day right, Asians evolved fighting into martial arts, westerners evolved fighting into boxing.
Theres a something deep down inside us that drives us to act, or wish to act in a certain way. And it seems to flow out of us as we lose consciousness of the moment, we revert to those deeply engrained patterns. Like when we ride a snowboard.


----------



## lifeisgold

Kijima said:


> Think about the 2 different cultures, asian and western. If you go back to the roots of each culture, fighting was the sport of the day right, Asians evolved fighting into martial arts, westerners evolved fighting into boxing.
> Theres a something deep down inside us that drives us to act, or wish to act in a certain way. And it seems to flow out of us as we lose consciousness of the moment, we revert to those deeply engrained patterns. Like when we ride a snowboard.


Bit of a stereotype there, its western confirmation bias at work. Before the boxer revolution and later Cultural Revolution (laws dictating what fight styles could work) from what we can tell martial arts in the east were much more nuts and bolts and similar to what was going on in the west.

Plus I would be remiss if I did not point out that Muay Thai (Thai Boxing) and Muay Lao are some of the most burtal sporting versions of fighting we know of very similar to boxing/savate. Plus on the west you had fencing and later wrestling (very similar to early judo/jiujitsu) that were art form of their perspective fighting style. Not mention all the different martial arts that existed in the world of medieval Europe like lancing etc....

In matter of fact catch wrestling and judo (then ju-jitsu) is a good example of how we perceive things different because of culture upbringing. The two were very similar in the early 1900's but one was done with a bit of bowing beforehand and while wearing white pajamas and the other was done in nothing but a pair of boxers so we see them very differently.


----------



## WigMar

Kijima said:


> When Ryan Knapton turns his back foot around we will all know that we have seen the Jesus of carving


I'd love to see Ryan ride double positive without highbacks! That would definitely force some changes in his riding.


----------



## MrDavey2Shoes

I’d like to see Knapton stop plugging for Fat Tire. He still doing that?
Really though I’d like to see more edits from him and less instruction, his edits are sick but there aren’t enough.

while we’re on the topic of Japanese toe turners, I really don’t like when they basically just lay down on the snow. You can tell they’re not actually turning or engaging the edge. Looks like a crawling baby with its belly dragging on the ground.


----------



## ZeMax

Kijima said:


> When Ryan Knapton turns his back foot around we will all know that we have seen the Jesus of carving


Go and have a look at Patrice fivat and the other guys at Swoard. Dragging the hip is so 1990s. These guys are grinding the corner fo their goggles. You have to look hard for their softboot videos on the Dual but it's out there.


----------



## BoardieK

MrDavey2Shoes said:


> .................
> 
> while we’re on the topic of Japanese toe turners, I really don’t like when they basically just lay down on the snow. You can tell they’re not actually turning or engaging the edge. Looks like a crawling baby with its belly dragging on the ground.


That's the issue I have with lay down carving: 1) it reduces speed, 2) it straightens out the turn because the board becomes unweighted, you often see the momentum and continuity of the run destroyed. To my eye a nicely balanced carve with a hand just skimming the snow looks so much better and is so much more functional as part of a series of turns.
A lay down carve is undoubtedly a high skill manoeuvre but it should be used sparingly and where it won't detract from the rest of the ride.
Amongst those Japanese videos of a group of snowboarders together you can often see a lesser skilled rider at the back putting in a more fluid series of turns than the better guys fluffing their lay down carves.


----------



## Quandom

Lived in Japan for 12 years. They def have a different style in carving. Its not their strongest attribute as a whole, but their flat land free style is something else. And that is generally speaking. I notice most of the freestyle guys like really noodley boards to really butter around. Its crazy to see how many of them are so good at freestyle too.


----------



## MCrides

I love me some flat, laydown carves, and I'd go so far as to say Knapton is _the_ most important rider in the game today--at least in terms of making carving great again and upping the game of your standard resort snowboarder. Based on the sample I see from the lift, I'd say less than 10% of snowboarders can carve at all, let alone lay them down.

But in the spirit of "open mindedness," I do want to push back a bit on the idea that any waist bending is automatically poor form on the toe side. Of course, there are times when it _does_ indicate poor form--riders who are "petting the dog" by breaking at the waist instead of actually using the force of the carve to get low, for example. And pushing the hips forward can be a really important cue for learning and improving toe side carves. But there are also plenty of riders who choose to bend at the waist instead of laying down, while still using their edges just as well.

Here's Knapton's buddy Giri Watts, for example:










He's got the board well on edge, has his knees and torso low to the ground... there's nothing stopping him from extending completely if he wanted to. He's just choosing to remain tucked up for some reason. If you've seen a video of him, the dude can definitely carve for real.

Snowboard racers do this all the time also, probably because it gives them a speed advantage similar to a skiers tuck:










I don't think this Olympian would do better to straighten out.

Tucking at the waist (as long as it's done as part of a good carve and not as a "hack" for getting low) has another advantage too: more of the rider's weight will be stacked vertically over the edge, all else being equal.

Again, nothing wrong at all with straightening the hips--it's important technique to learn and is obviously awesome from a feel/aesthetic standpoint. I just don't think waist bending is an automatic no-no.



> I really don’t like when they basically just lay down on the snow


Lol, yeah I know what you mean. Can't call it a "carve" if all your weight is on the snow, even if you pop back up at the end.


----------



## zc1

They do it (bend at the waist) because it allows them to pump to the next turn and continue to build speed. Keeping the hips (edited; originally wrote "waist") extended doesn't allow for the same generation of force. If you look at Giri, he looks like he's about to leap. All that force will go into the board and the rebound will push him towards his next apex...or more likely into a revert carve or some other beautiful move.

If you're just riding the sidecut and letting the board and gravity do all the work then you can use whatever posture you want -- look at Knapton in the photo you posted -- he can't put any more energy into the board from that position and is just riding the edge through the turn. If you want to continue to build speed or be active in the turn then you can do it to some extent in the "good form" low inclination of the torso with a lot of angulation at the hips and knees, or you can generate even more by assuming what's being referred to here as "bad form" by flexing all of the joints and then using the energy of extending them to generate speed into the next turn. 

Every move has a consequence. In this case, it may look 'ugly' to some but it's very much functional.


----------



## MCrides

zc1 said:


> They do it (bend at the waist) because it allows them to pump to the next turn and continue to build speed. Keeping the waist extended doesn't allow for the same generation of force.


Yeah, of course. What I notice about a lot of the "downchill," Japanese-style carvers is that they often look like they aren't putting any energy back into the board at all. Maybe they're laid out, maybe they're tucked up in a position like Giri is above, but either way they're passively riding the carve out instead of pushing against it.


----------



## zc1

@MCrides Absolutely. I was only commenting on why Giri might have been doing it in the above photo, or why racers would do it as in your example. I completely agree with the comment about a lot of riders in videos doing it as a habit or intentionally because they consider it stylish and not because they're actually trying to derive any functional benefit from it.


----------



## MCrides

zc1 said:


> @MCrides Absolutely. I was only commenting on why Giri might have been doing it in the above photo, or why racers would do it as in your example. I completely agree with the comment about a lot of riders in videos doing it as a habit or intentionally because they consider it stylish and not because they're actually trying to derive any functional benefit from it.


Yeah, we're agreeing. Bent hips are not an automatic indication of poor form, was my main point.


----------



## Olivetta

Kijima said:


> You can watch hours and hours of graceful Japanese carvers like this Rama109 dude who are one of the most popular in Japan but you wont see a toe turn like Knaptons
> I reckon if Ryan went FF stance he would have heel turns down in a week and we would all see a true boss in his prime.


What kind of board use this guy?

I suppose with soft boots and very FF angulation


----------



## Olivetta

MrDavey2Shoes said:


> I’d like to see Knapton stop plugging for Fat Tire. He still doing that?
> Really though I’d like to see more edits from him and less instruction, his edits are sick but there aren’t enough.
> 
> while we’re on the topic of Japanese toe turners, I really don’t like when they basically just lay down on the snow. You can tell they’re not actually turning or engaging the edge. Looks like a crawling baby with its belly dragging on the ground.





Kijima said:


> You can watch hours and hours of graceful Japanese carvers like this Rama109 dude who are one of the most popular in Japan but you wont see a toe turn like Knaptons
> I reckon if Ryan went FF stance he would have heel turns down in a week and we would all see a true boss in his prime.


got it 

it is hard board


----------



## Olivetta

BoardieK said:


> That's the issue I have with lay down carving: 1) it reduces speed, 2) it straightens out the turn because the board becomes unweighted, you often see the momentum and continuity of the run destroyed. To my eye a nicely balanced carve with a hand just skimming the snow looks so much better and is so much more functional as part of a series of turns.
> A lay down carve is undoubtedly a high skill manoeuvre but it should be used sparingly and where it won't detract from the rest of the ride.
> Amongst those Japanese videos of a group of snowboarders together you can often see a lesser skilled rider at the back putting in a more fluid series of turns than the better guys fluffing their lay down carves.


Quite clear 

The lay down it is only for fun not for speed


----------



## Kijima

lifeisgold said:


> Bit of a stereotype there, its western confirmation bias at work. Before the boxer revolution and later Cultural Revolution (laws dictating what fight styles could work) from what we can tell martial arts in the east were much more nuts and bolts and similar to what was going on in the west.
> 
> Plus I would be remiss if I did not point out that Muay Thai (Thai Boxing) and Muay Lao are some of the most burtal sporting versions of fighting we know of very similar to boxing/savate. Plus on the west you had fencing and later wrestling (very similar to early judo/jiujitsu) that were art form of their perspective fighting style. Not mention all the different martial arts that existed in the world of medieval Europe like lancing etc....
> 
> In matter of fact catch wrestling and judo (then ju-jitsu) is a good example of how we perceive things different because of culture upbringing. The two were very similar in the early 1900's but one was done with a bit of bowing beforehand and while wearing white pajamas and the other was done in nothing but a pair of boxers so we see them very differently.


I think you went a different way with that than I was going. 
In martial arts I see circles. 
In boxing I see squares. 
In japanese carving I see circles and flow. 
In western carving I see squares and force.


----------



## Kijima

WigMar said:


> I'd love to see Ryan ride double positive without highbacks! That would definitely force some changes in his riding.


They would be beautifil changes


----------



## Kijima

Quandom said:


> Lived in Japan for 12 years. They def have a different style in carving. Its not their strongest attribute as a whole, but their flat land free style is something else. And that is generally speaking. I notice most of the freestyle guys like really noodley boards to really butter around. Its crazy to see how many of them are so good at freestyle too.


All the action must happen where the ladies can see it from the chair lift lol.


----------



## Kijima

MCrides said:


> I love me some flat, laydown carves, and I'd go so far as to say Knapton is _the_ most important rider in the game today--at least in terms of making carving great again and upping the game of your standard resort snowboarder. Based on the sample I see from the lift, I'd say less than 10% of snowboarders can carve at all, let alone lay them down.
> 
> But in the spirit of "open mindedness," I do want to push back a bit on the idea that any waist bending is automatically poor form on the toe side. Of course, there are times when it _does_ indicate poor form--riders who are "petting the dog" by breaking at the waist instead of actually using the force of the carve to get low, for example. And pushing the hips forward can be a really important cue for learning and improving toe side carves. But there are also plenty of riders who choose to bend at the waist instead of laying down, while still using their edges just as well.
> 
> Here's Knapton's buddy Giri Watts, for example:
> 
> View attachment 153841
> 
> 
> He's got the board well on edge, has his knees and torso low to the ground... there's nothing stopping him from extending completely if he wanted to. He's just choosing to remain tucked up for some reason. If you've seen a video of him, the dude can definitely carve for real.
> 
> Snowboard racers do this all the time also, probably because it gives them a speed advantage similar to a skiers tuck:
> 
> View attachment 153842
> 
> 
> I don't think this Olympian would do better to straighten out.
> 
> Tucking at the waist (as long as it's done as part of a good carve and not as a "hack" for getting low) has another advantage too: more of the rider's weight will be stacked vertically over the edge, all else being equal.
> 
> Again, nothing wrong at all with straightening the hips--it's important technique to learn and is obviously awesome from a feel/aesthetic standpoint. I just don't think waist bending is an automatic no-no.
> 
> 
> 
> Lol, yeah I know what you mean. Can't call it a "carve" if all your weight is on the snow, even if you pop back up at the end.


Great points you make.
I always take things back to basics to sort out complex issues like this.
So that would mean cruising around the mountain doing toe turns with a soul arch, and then toe turns bent at the waist.
From that most basic comparison I would make my decision, as I obviously have, but we can all put what we choose to put in our turns.
Its only important that it made its way there because we chose to include it


----------



## Kijima

Guys. Just to clarify when I say bad form I mean it as something I wish to leave out of my own riding, for my own reasons.
Im not a great rider at all, all of these guys would smoke me lol, I know that.
For me, with my long skinny body type, not racing, Im simply trying to ride with a style that makes me feel good.
Bent at the waist in toe turns looks bad to me, feels bad tome, and I have proven it to myself to be a heel friendly position so Im working hard to eliminate it from my own riding.

Now if I had to get around the next red flag 20m down hill, I would leave it there as maintaining heel friendly posture in my toe turn would be an advantage to me.


----------



## Kijima

MCrides said:


> Yeah, of course. What I notice about a lot of the "downchill," Japanese-style carvers is that they often look like they aren't putting any energy back into the board at all. Maybe they're laid out, maybe they're tucked up in a position like Giri is above, but either way they're passively riding the carve out instead of pushing against it.


Excellent observation.
I fell victim to this most of the reason and I worked out that its easy to fall in to a turn but harder to push ourselves back out of a turn. It requires far more effort.
So if we go into a turn under the assumption that its a 50/50 energy split between the front half and the back half of the turn we are making a big mistake. 
I feel its more like 40/60. Now I know that I will avoid the same trap next season.

Actually I tested it 3 days ago doing road laps at a closed resort, coming out the back of my turns with power. It works.


----------



## Kijima

Olivetta said:


> What kind of board use this guy?
> 
> I suppose with soft boots and very FF angulation


They all use long edge boards, whoever sponsors them they ride that board.


----------



## Kijima

MCrides said:


> Snowboard racers do this all the time also, probably because it gives them a speed advantage similar to a skiers tuck:
> 
> View attachment 153842
> 
> 
> I don't think this Olympian would do better to straighten out.


I believe they maintain that heel turn friendly position in the toe turn because the next flag is a heel turn and they dont have time to be in both positions and still win a race. Thhey set up for dominant heel turns and survive the easier toe turns. Its fast.




MCrides said:


> Tucking at the waist (as long as it's done as part of a good carve and not as a "hack" for getting low) has another advantage too: more of the rider's weight will be stacked vertically over the edge, all else being equal.


I would also say that theres nothing stacked about Z shape for toe turns, in this shape the riders body is highly compressible. An I shape is stacked for toe turns, Z shape is stacked for heel turns.


----------



## zc1

I just like sharing this video because I like his style. The lie-downs fit with his style of riding and I think overall it has a nice flow to it. I like the variety of lines, speeds, use of terrain...


__
http://instagr.am/p/B8_YWULAaP3/


----------



## NT.Thunder

zc1 said:


> I just like sharing this video because I like his style. The lie-downs fit with his style of riding and I think overall it has a nice flow to it. I like the variety of lines, speeds, use of terrain...
> 
> 
> __
> http://instagr.am/p/B8_YWULAaP3/


His stance looks set-back a fair distance for those conditions, with that board does doing that just make the turning radius much smaller and quicker to intiate the carve?


----------



## zc1

That's the normal position of the stance on that board. It has a 52 cm wide reference stance and it's way set back. It has camber under the rear foot only, like the Moss Jellyfish. The tightness of the turn can be manipulated with the back foot. Shift your weight there while leaned over and it'll tighten up the turn. 

The little bit of a wing on each side of the tail serves two purposes. (1) it's the end of the effective edge and the transition to the stepped-in tail allows for "carve wheelies" (where he lifts the nose up while leaned over in a carve); (2) helps to decrease the tail volume to drop the tail in powder.

Here he is with the board:


__
http://instagr.am/p/B84Cmz1ANld/


----------



## Scalpelman

zc1 said:


> That's the normal position of the stance on that board. It has a 52 cm wide reference stance and it's way set back. It has camber under the rear foot only, like the Moss Jellyfish. The tightness of the turn can be manipulated with the back foot. Shift your weight there while leaned over and it'll tighten up the turn.
> 
> The little bit of a wing on each side of the tail serves two purposes. (1) it's the end of the effective edge and the transition to the stepped-in tail allows for "carve wheelies" (where he lifts the nose up while leaned over in a carve); (2) helps to decrease the tail volume to drop the tail in powder.
> 
> Here he is with the board:
> 
> 
> __
> http://instagr.am/p/B84Cmz1ANld/


Love seeing videos like this. That guy is smooth as butter. And it’s good to see everyone’s perspective on carving and flow, ideals they wish to achieve. But for me that flow is slow. I want to do what he’s doing at 30-40mph, not 10-20. That’s my ideal. Not sure I will achieve it.


----------



## Rip154

Scalpelman said:


> Love seeing videos like this. That guy is smooth as butter. And it’s good to see everyone’s perspective on carving and flow, ideals they wish to achieve. But for me that flow is slow. I want to do what he’s doing at 30-40mph, not 10-20. That’s my ideal. Not sure I will achieve it.


Would you really do that in a crowded family section of the slopes?


----------



## MrDavey2Shoes

Scalpelman said:


> Love seeing videos like this. That guy is smooth as butter. And it’s good to see everyone’s perspective on carving and flow, ideals they wish to achieve. But for me that flow is slow. I want to do what he’s doing at 30-40mph, not 10-20. That’s my ideal. Not sure I will achieve it.


Me too amigo, I got pretty close one weekend at Bromley. That mountain has amazing terrain for fast carving


----------



## Scalpelman

Rip154 said:


> Would you really do that in a crowded family section of the slopes?


I wouldn’t have even done what he was doing. Seemed a bit hairy. Was waiting for the 5yo takeout.


----------



## zc1

Scalpelman said:


> Love seeing videos like this. That guy is smooth as butter. And it’s good to see everyone’s perspective on carving and flow, ideals they wish to achieve. But for me that flow is slow. I want to do what he’s doing at 30-40mph, not 10-20. That’s my ideal. Not sure I will achieve it.


He doesn't always ride like that, either. If you check out the Downchill videos or some of the Moss videos you'll see him in those as well. He said that type of riding is perfect for small hills, where there's no need to rush back down to the lift.

That's only my ideal for Snow surfing, not for "regular riding." If I'm on a regular popsicle stick board or a regular freeride board I'm usually riding in a "more spirited" manner than that and in more varied terrain.

My goal with Snow surfing is what he suggests for small hills, but everywhere -- slowing it down, looking at the hill differently and trying to use more of the terrain in more creative ways. Where most people stop riding on the hill and coast to the lift, he's still getting turns in and having fun. Where most people only look and ride downhill, he also looks at uphill lines that he can ride as if he's actually surfing a wave. It's just a really unconventional approach.

I'll post more video of him riding somewhere else to avoid cluttering up this thread. I just posted that to contribute to the discussion about Snow surfing style.


----------



## Kijima

NT.Thunder said:


> His stance looks set-back a fair distance for those conditions, with that board does doing that just make the turning radius much smaller and quicker to intiate the carve?


Long noses with short tails make a board look set back, if you look at my boards, not one of them has set back, some just have longer noses


----------



## Kijima

zc1 said:


> Here he is with the board:
> 
> 
> __
> http://instagr.am/p/B84Cmz1ANld/


That definitely is set back vs the sidecut. That puts the riders weight automatically in the back seat, you have more work to do to start the turns but less to finish them.


----------



## Kijima

Here we go boys, uploaded 3 days ago, he might take 11 and a half minutes to say it, but what he says is hips forward for toe turns.
The Japanese will be on to it next season.


----------



## Kijima

Just look at the bio mechanics of his legs. Short as fk and balls of muscle. 
It helps.


----------



## zc1




----------



## zc1




----------



## NT.Thunder

Core strength


----------



## Scalpelman

Fuck the snow is the position.


----------



## Kijima

I pressed my first longboard yesterday.


----------



## t21

Kijima said:


> I pressed my first longboard yesterday.
> 
> View attachment 153872


Nice one, what motor are you using?top speed and range?


----------



## Kijima

t21 said:


> Nice one, what motor are you using?top speed and range?


I have twin 6374 motors and building a 12s5p samsung 30qbattery pack for my electric set up but this deck is far too flexy to put motors on. 
It actually feels just like snowboarding, I think Ive made the perfect snowboarding summer training device


----------



## MCrides

Kijima said:


> I would also say that theres nothing stacked about Z shape for toe turns, in this shape the riders body is highly compressible. An I shape is stacked for toe turns, Z shape is stacked for heel turns.


If I have the board way up on edge, the closer my center of gravity is to the board, the more my weight is stacked vertically over the board. Tucking brings my center of gravity closer.

But that's in an all-else-being-equal scenario. I do think focussing on hip extension is often really helpful--I can feel it when I ride. I'm thinking out loud here, but I think it's because pushing my hips forward lets me achieve greater angulation without greater inclination, which could more than offset any weight stack advantage from tucking. Also, the act of extending pushes energy back into the edge.


----------



## MCrides

zc1 said:


> My goal with Snow surfing is what he suggests for small hills, but everywhere -- slowing it down, looking at the hill differently and trying to use more of the terrain in more creative ways. Where most people stop riding on the hill and coast to the lift, he's still getting turns in and having fun. Where most people only look and ride downhill, he also looks at uphill lines that he can ride as if he's actually surfing a wave. It's just a really unconventional approach.


You'll like this article on snow surfing, if you haven't seen it already:

Bottom Turn : How Snow Surfing is Growing Around the Globe


----------



## zc1

@MCrides Cheers! I'll check it out.


----------



## zc1

MCrides said:


> You'll like this article on snow surfing, if you haven't seen it already:
> 
> Bottom Turn : How Snow Surfing is Growing Around the Globe


You were correct. It was a good read. Although Tamai said something similar, I think I like the way Wolken summed it up a bit more (similar to what Moss rider Naoya Wada said):

_When it comes to his outlook on snow surfing today, Wolken agrees that its largely about seeing terrain in a more three-dimensional way, but adds his own take. Its a kind of creative work, he says, in which you set surf-inspired turns in the right places and link them to form a pleasing line that creates an overall aesthetic impression in the backcountry, or on groomers. The biggest draw for him, and something that was echoed by everyone else I talked to for this story, is being able to have fun doing turns, try new shapes, and be open minded to snowboarding again. _

Then of course the extension to that last thought, and the reason some of us have a number of different boards: 

_I didnt realize until I was in Niseko and riding different shapes that you can actually offer yourself a whole different experience every day _

At a Moss info session someone asked the Moss rep what he liked most about snow surfing. His answer was two-fold:

_(1) The friendships
(2) It's accessible. Anyone can snow surf and progress in it. It's very low-consequence_

The second point was the big one. The things that we see our favourite snow surfers doing in the videos are things that we can actually safely learn to do, without special training, facilities, etc. What Red Gerard does matter-of-factly in a slopestyle run is completely unapproachable for me. I grew up watching Michael Jordan dunk, Wayne Gretzky skate circles around people and put the puck in the net like nobody before, and all of that was completely unapproachable for me. But now I watch Naoya Wada creatively paint lines in the snow and it's something that I could actually potentially do one day.


----------



## MCrides

zc1 said:


> _(2) It's accessible. Anyone can snow surf and progress in it. It's very low-consequence_


Yeah, this resonates with me also. I have virtually no interest in freestyle, and even if I did, I'm too old an injury-averse now to try and get better at it. But riding the mountain in three dimensions, improving the way I traverse what nature gave me... that's something I can chase after.

There's a great youtube vid called "Chasing Advanture" that's worth a watch:






At the end, the narrator talks about how we often focus on what happens in the air at the exclusion of how we use the ground, and I think he's onto something.


----------



## Kijima

V 2.0 summer training board.
Im working like crazy atm to produce a longboard that rides just like a carving snowboard.


----------



## NT.Thunder

I just took my longboard for a bit of a run through the skate park. Took me a little to find a run that I was comfortable with through the park as it is obviously a little sketchy hitting the half bowl areas but managed to get a run down pat where I could pump through the bowl then carve a track around the park back into the bowl to pump up some more speed again. Lost a bit of bark when the front trucks got caught up on the top section of the bowl. A smaller surfskate would be much better here but the longboard is good practice for riding switch.


----------



## Kijima

NT.Thunder said:


> I just took my longboard for a bit of a run through the skate park. Took me a little to find a run that I was comfortable with through the park as it is obviously a little sketchy hitting the half bowl areas but managed to get a run down pat where I could pump through the bowl then carve a track around the park back into the bowl to pump up some more speed again. Lost a bit of bark when the front trucks got caught up on the top section of the bowl. A smaller surfskate would be much better here but the longboard is good practice for riding switch.


Careful in the park on a longboard lol


----------



## Kijima

Im having very fast success with these carving skateboard designs, I already modfied the one in the pic 4 times this afternoon and have it dialed. 
V3.0 will be coming very soon.

Today I actually got moving a bit too quickly and needed to slow down so I reversed the up/down body movements that I learned work so well to produce speed, and sure enough I was wiping off speed just like that.
So staying high in my heel turns and then crouching low in my toe turns was very effective at slowing me down. 
You know a method is true when it gives the opposite effect when you reverse it.


----------



## NT.Thunder

Yr work looks super slick, would love to see the process of pressing boards and what’s involved from start to finish. Love the clean finish.
Riding the park today I notice I’m much more confident on the toe turns and really pushing out of them with some speed. Not so on my heels but it’ll come. 
I will need some knee pads and a helmet though if I persist with the park.
I’m curious, and maybe it’s at the start of this thread, but how did you end up in Japan doing what you do?


----------



## Kijima

NT.Thunder said:


> Yr work looks super slick, would love to see the process of pressing boards and what’s involved from start to finish. Love the clean finish.
> Riding the park today I notice I’m much more confident on the toe turns and really pushing out of them with some speed. Not so on my heels but it’ll come.
> I will need some knee pads and a helmet though if I persist with the park.
> I’m curious, and maybe it’s at the start of this thread, but how did you end up in Japan doing what you do?


Its the rise that gives you power in toe turns, thats what you are feeling there.
For heel turns you need to stay low so that you can rise in the toe turn, so keep your head low but straighten your legs which squeezes the board forward. That gives power to a heel turn.
When you get them both happening you start flying lol.

Me in Japan? 
Back in Australia I used to be in to cars, I turned that into a business producing hand made turbo systems. That blew up quickly and I did it for 9 years, got bored, sold everything including my pride and joy race car that Id been working on for 6 years and was 90% finished, bought a house in Japan and said see ya later fuckers. Moved country.
In Japan I built a workshop myself which collapsed under a 2m dump of snow, that crushed my 2 cars and half of my shit I had stored in there, my friends who used to use me for free accom all walked off and left me.
I had nothing.
So I went from successful to broken. Popular to nobody.Majority to minority Fat to skinny lol
You name it, Ive probably walked both sides of the line.


----------



## Kijima

I built this crazy turbo system on my race car that most people couldnt get their heads around. Pics of got leaked and went viral around the world in 24 hours lol. 100k shares on fb etc.
Still I get sent messages from old friends showing me some social media link where peeps are arguing if its real or photoshopped.
I used to be a member on here with that name. ETM


----------



## Kijima

And the day i sold her


----------



## WigMar

Kijima said:


> I built this crazy turbo system on my race car that most people couldnt get their heads around. Pics of got leaked and went viral around the world in 24 hours lol. 100k shares on fb etc.
> Still I get sent messages from old friends showing me some social media link where peeps are arguing if its real or photoshopped.
> I used to be a member on here with that name. ETM
> View attachment 153907


I think I've seen this car before lol! The turbo instead of an emblem sticks in my memory. That set up is visually stunning.


----------



## t21

Kijima said:


> And the day i sold her
> View attachment 153908


Awesome car! hey i remember your name about a year or two ago. You were building your own powder boards(swallowtail) i think,then you stop posting for a while. well welcome back!


----------



## Kijima

t21 said:


> Awesome car! hey i remember your name about a year or two ago. You were building your own powder boards(swallowtail) i think,then you stop posting for a while. well welcome back!


It was about 7 years lol. Time sure does fly


----------



## wrathfuldeity

Kijima said:


> And the day i sold her
> View attachment 153908


Is that a parachute pack? And I remember those crazy boards you were pressing...outstanding!


----------



## Kijima

wrathfuldeity said:


> Is that a parachute pack? And I remember those crazy boards you were pressing...outstanding!


Yeah parachutes for slowing down are mandatory. 
Silly games boys like to play lol.


----------



## Kijima

Ive been skateboarding using a broom stick, not unlike a witch lol.
Im finding the stick, held in both hands as I carve, brings a very nice understanding of the correct flow to my upper body movement.

Expect a vid in the next few days, or maybe I should save it for halloween lol.


----------



## MrDavey2Shoes

Is that a commodore?


----------



## NT.Thunder

MrDavey2Shoes said:


> Is that a commodore?


Falcon I think.......same thing


----------



## Kijima

Falcodore


----------



## Kijima

You can see the difference between my v1.0 and v2.0 longboard decks. 
V1.0 used 5 ply bamboo like a traditional skate deck and rides like a skateboard. 
V2.0 used all the same materials as my snowboards. A single vertically laminated bamboo core with triaxial glass/epoxy layers top and bottom. 
This rides amazingly similar to a snowboard. 

Im working on 3.0 right now.


----------



## WigMar

I wish I could give that two thumbs up.


----------



## Kijima

You can see the epic flex Im getting with the 2.0 board. This flex is what makes it feel like a carving snowboard, its causing a really nice progressive rake change to the truck angles which really changes the feel of the turns.
Stiff decks cannot get close to the feeling. 
The only problem Im having is actually bottoming out the deck on the road if I turn too hard so v3.0 is getting a big camber section between the feet. That should stop the bottom outs and hopefully add more pop as a bonus. 
I want the flex to happen between the feet and the trucks rather than in the middle of the board.


----------



## Kijima




----------



## Kijima




----------



## Jkb818

Sick style bro


----------



## t21

Kijima said:


>


Cool pic/vid. Your board is surely flexible,your buncing already while you push  the place you are in gives me a bit of flashack when my family and i used to be stationed in Yokosuka, we lived in Negishi housing close to Yokohama and driving around to see other places was an awesome experience.btw,i bet that old man in your vid is probably in his 90's and still working on his yard, good people and we always felt safe back there.


----------



## Rip154

Kijima said:


> You can see the epic flex Im getting with the 2.0 board. This flex is what makes it feel like a carving snowboard, its causing a really nice progressive rake change to the truck angles which really changes the feel of the turns.
> Stiff decks cannot get close to the feeling.
> The only problem Im having is actually bottoming out the deck on the road if I turn too hard so v3.0 is getting a big camber section between the feet. That should stop the bottom outs and hopefully add more pop as a bonus.
> I want the flex to happen between the feet and the trucks rather than in the middle of the board.
> View attachment 153955
> View attachment 153956


Tried angled risers/wedges on trucks, and carbon or some hardwood stringer between the feet?


----------



## wrathfuldeity

Kijima said:


> You can see the epic flex Im getting with the 2.0 board. This flex is what makes it feel like a carving snowboard, its causing a really nice progressive rake change to the truck angles which really changes the feel of the turns.
> Stiff decks cannot get close to the feeling.
> The only problem Im having is actually bottoming out the deck on the road if I turn too hard so v3.0 is getting a big camber section between the feet. That should stop the bottom outs and hopefully add more pop as a bonus.
> I want the flex to happen between the feet and the trucks rather than in the middle of the board.
> View attachment 153955
> View attachment 153956


I'm putting in an order for the v3.0 deck...please pm me an invoice. Thanks!


----------



## Kijima

Jkb818 said:


> Sick style bro


Thanks man. 
You can see how keeping the head low in heel turns allows the rise in toe turns to happen. 
All I think about now is my vertical rise and fall and twisting the upper body in a continuous motion.


----------



## Kijima

Rip154 said:


> Tried angled risers/wedges on trucks, and carbon or some hardwood stringer between the feet?


Yeah Ive been playing with angled riser combos, rkp/tkp truck combos, big/small wheels, different urethane compounds, pneumatic wheels. 

What I worked out is that risers and truck geometry on a stiff deck is a static change and doesn't give a snowboard feeling. 
Allowing progressive change in truck geometry via board flex gives the best results.


----------



## Kijima

The way I really got it feeling right was by making the tail more narrow than the front. This allows the tail to flex easier and gives the same feeling as popping out of a carve on a snowboard.
As I discovered with snowboards, its all about flex in the right places.


----------



## t21

wrathfuldeity said:


> I'm putting in an order for the v3.0 deck...please pm me an invoice. Thanks!


me too 😁


----------



## Kijima

I gotta make it work first boys!

But seriously, thanks for the vibes.


----------



## NT.Thunder

Flex is insane, thanks for the vid, keep them coming


----------



## WigMar

I generally don't pay attention to my vertical rise much when longboarding. I'm going to feel it out tomorrow and see if I can replicate your method of rising through the toe turn. I'm curious to see how that feels, and what I'm doing naturally already. 

Those decks look sweet! I'm stoked to see the progression going on here. Thanks for keeping us posted.


----------



## MrDavey2Shoes

Cool video, what I found interesting was your turn is really two turns. I know that doesn’t make sense but I mean to say your heel and toe turn look to be part of the same “unit”. Like, instead of heelside (unit) then toeside (unit)it looks like heelside/toeside (unit) then heelside/toeside (unit). I guess that could be the hula hoop on a smaller scale?


----------



## wrathfuldeity

Kijima said:


> I gotta make it work first boys!
> 
> But seriously, thanks for the vibes.


I'm a believer! Seriously, I want in the production line. Years ago, my lame ass hack at a bamboo battling ram from scraps. A turning radius of at least 15 meters, bottom out, adjustable deck elevation and weighed 10 kilos...lol. If it got away, it would do serious damage...kill pedestrians, dogs and cats. Gave it away to some kid with the stern warning it would hurt somebody.


----------



## Kijima

wrathfuldeity said:


> I'm a believer! Seriously, I want in the production line. Years ago, my lame ass hack at a bamboo battling ram from scraps. A turning radius of at least 15 meters, bottom out, adjustable deck elevation and weighed 10 kilos...lol. If it got away, it would do serious damage...kill pedestrians, dogs and cats. Gave it away to some kid with the stern warning it would hurt somebody.
> View attachment 153988


Thats pure epic bro


----------



## Kijima

MrDavey2Shoes said:


> Cool video, what I found interesting was your turn is really two turns. I know that doesn’t make sense but I mean to say your heel and toe turn look to be part of the same “unit”. Like, instead of heelside (unit) then toeside (unit)it looks like heelside/toeside (unit) then heelside/toeside (unit). I guess that could be the hula hoop on a smaller scale?


You got it. Ive been calling them a set of turns for some time now.
A heel turn sets up a toe turn. A toe turn sets up a heel turn, its yin and yang boys and girls.

If you go back to my stance movie and recreate those two upper body positions, with max rise at the toe position and max fall at the heel position you will generate the same flow.

All the open minded learning Ive done is being refined down to a few core elements.
The knee open/closed is incorporated, the squat and hips forward is incorporated, eagle wing and wax off incorporated, hula hoop just happens. 
We are getting close to purity of movement IMO


----------



## Kijima

Kijima said:


> View attachment 153957


Look at that front knee in at the start of my toe turn and I wasnt even thinking about it.


----------



## Kijima

Im expecting a fair bit of spring back from the 1 ply bamboo so I gave the mold plenty of camber. 
5 degree rake on the front, 10 degree on the back.
Tomorrow will be V3.0 day.


----------



## Kijima

WigMar said:


> I generally don't pay attention to my vertical rise much when longboarding. I'm going to feel it out tomorrow and see if I can replicate your method of rising through the toe turn. I'm curious to see how that feels, and what I'm doing naturally already.
> 
> Those decks look sweet! I'm stoked to see the progression going on here. Thanks for keeping us posted.


The rise and fall as I do adds speed, often on a longboard you get going a bit too fast so flipping the method will slow you down. 
Rise in a heel, fall in a toe turn slows you down nicely.


----------



## Scalpelman

Very cool. I wonder if any other longboard co put in glass? I bet not.


----------



## Kijima

Not sure on that one.

In other news Ive been trying to work out why these expensive big wheels absolutely suck ass for carving. They just skip out on me every time I lean in to a carve and the answer is that they have too much support on the outside of the wheel. The obtuse rounded angle on the black ones is too supportive and does not allow the edge of the wheel to flex. Thats bad.

So the oldskool looking wheels that have a cone shape are the ones you want for this style of riding.


----------



## zc1

Scalpelman said:


> Very cool. I wonder if any other longboard co put in glass? I bet not.


Lib Tech and Powell Peralta do (in addition to carbon fiber). Mervin also uses snowboard construction in the swappable baseplates of their Bent Metal bindings.


----------



## zc1

Kijima said:


> Not sure on that one.
> 
> In other news Ive been trying to work out why these expensive big wheels absolutely suck ass for carving. They just skip out on me every time I lean in to a carve and the answer is that they have too much support on the outside of the wheel. The obtuse rounded angle on the black ones is too supportive and does not allow the edge of the wheel to flex. Thats bad.
> 
> So the oldskool looking wheels that have a cone shape are the ones you want for this style of riding.


Check out the Carver Roundhouse wheels. The riding surface of the wheel is actually concave to apply more pressure to the edges when the board is weighted.









Roundhouse by Carver Concave Wheel Set - 69mm 78a


The need for grip has never been more important than in surfskate, where you rely on the traction of the wheels to fully lean into carves and cutbacks. Roundhouse Concave Wheels give you extra projection out of your turns so you can complete maneuvers you’d otherwise slide out on. The key to...



shop.carverskateboards.com


----------



## Kijima

zc1 said:


> Check out the Carver Roundhouse wheels. The riding surface of the wheel is actually concave to apply more pressure to the edges when the board is weighted.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roundhouse by Carver Concave Wheel Set - 69mm 78a
> 
> 
> The need for grip has never been more important than in surfskate, where you rely on the traction of the wheels to fully lean into carves and cutbacks. Roundhouse Concave Wheels give you extra projection out of your turns so you can complete maneuvers you’d otherwise slide out on. The key to...
> 
> 
> 
> shop.carverskateboards.com


I was looking at them last night!


----------



## Kijima

100% mold conformation. No deflection lol. 
Im a little shocked to be honest. 
I will let it post cure tonight and ride it in the morning.


----------



## WigMar

Kijima said:


> Yeah Ive been playing with angled riser combos, rkp/tkp truck combos, big/small wheels, different urethane compounds, pneumatic wheels.
> 
> What I worked out is that risers and truck geometry on a stiff deck is a static change and doesn't give a snowboard feeling.
> Allowing progressive change in truck geometry via board flex gives the best results.


I think raking the trucks with the deck is brilliant! I've never seen that in practice before, and I'd love to feel it. Very radical. That camber section looks serious enough to support a big guy too. I like where this is going.


----------



## Kijima

WigMar said:


> I think raking the trucks with the deck is brilliant! I've never seen that in practice before, and I'd love to feel it. Very radical. That camber section looks serious enough to support a big guy too. I like where this is going.


Raking the trucks angles is just like using wedged risers. Most people set up wedges with more angle at the front to keep the tail quiet and stable while the nose moves around which gives stability at speed and a surfy feeling. 
But I found that sucks for snowboard style carving, and its actually beneficial to have the tail move around more than the nose to help complete the turns allowing nice full shapes to be drawn by the board.
So what I have here works like both of those things depending on which way you ride it. For mellow slopes where you are snowboarding in your mind ride it forwards, for steeper stuff where survival is the primary goal turn it around and ride it backwards. 

Im not sure if the camber is too high or not but if it is I will just reduce the camber in the mold and go again with v4.0


----------



## Kijima

Boom. 
She rides like a dream. The camber is perfect and pushes down to about level rather than bottoming out on the road like v2.0 was doing. 

The truck rake works as expected and really focuses the flex just outside the feet as I was hoping it would. 

Beautiful pockets for the feet to lock in to. 

When I first cut it out I went for a longer wheel base but it flexed too much and was cutting too big of a radius so I returned to the OG wheel base. 

Now I need to put some miles on her and make sure it doesn't explode or spontaneously combust and im good to go with pressing a first batch.
I also have some clear glass fritt on the way to sprinkle on the top sheet instead of using grip tape for a really high end finish!

As I rode it down the hill I was laughing out loud. Its a good life. 

Wheel base 1.








.
.
Recut








.
.

And the OG wheel base returns


----------



## NT.Thunder

Sweeeeeettttttt!!

Let me know if you need beta testers  looks awesome


----------



## Kijima

Ill be throwing up a website in the next few days.
I have been selling snowboards locally but this funny looking skatey will be the first product I stock and sell like a regular shop.

Its exciting for me after 5 years of basically zero income lol.

Im talking with a US distributor you all know well, so that should mean I can keep some stock in Colorado for easy shipping throughout North America.
I have a distributor in Australia also.

Fingers crossed we can even ship this stuff atm.


----------



## NT.Thunder

Kijima said:


> Ill be throwing up a website in the next few days.
> I have been selling snowboards locally but this funny looking skatey will be the first product I stock and sell like a regular shop.
> 
> Its exciting for me after 5 years of basically zero income lol.
> 
> Im talking with a US distributor you all know well, so that should mean I can keep some stock in Colorado for easy shipping throughout North America.
> I have a distributor in Australia also.
> 
> Fingers crossed we can even ship this stuff atm.


Nice work, let me know who the Aussie distributor is when you can


----------



## Kijima

I finished off the NOW riser plate job Ive had sitting on the bench for a bit too long lol.


----------



## wrathfuldeity

Kijima said:


> Ill be throwing up a website in the next few days.
> I have been selling snowboards locally but this funny looking skatey will be the first product I stock and sell like a regular shop.
> 
> Its exciting for me after 5 years of basically zero income lol.
> 
> Im talking with a US distributor you all know well, so that should mean I can keep some stock in Colorado for easy shipping throughout North America.
> I have a distributor in Australia also.
> 
> Fingers crossed we can even ship this stuff atm.


Pleading, give us a heads up, kickstarter or preferably do a pre-order with the US distributor. Also sending a pm, meow


----------



## t21

Kijima said:


> Boom.
> She rides like a dream. The camber is perfect and pushes down to about level rather than bottoming out on the road like v2.0 was doing.
> 
> The truck rake works as expected and really focuses the flex just outside the feet as I was hoping it would.
> 
> Beautiful pockets for the feet to lock in to.
> 
> When I first cut it out I went for a longer wheel base but it flexed too much and was cutting too big of a radius so I returned to the OG wheel base.
> 
> Now I need to put some miles on her and make sure it doesn't explode or spontaneously combust and im good to go with pressing a first batch.
> I also have some clear glass fritt on the way to sprinkle on the top sheet instead of using grip tape for a really high end finish!
> 
> As I rode it down the hill I was laughing out loud. Its a good life.
> 
> Wheel base 1.
> View attachment 154007
> 
> .
> .
> Recut
> View attachment 154008
> 
> .
> .
> 
> And the OG wheel base returns
> View attachment 154009


sweet looking deck! i had to admit,the first thing i thought when i saw your pics of the deck it reminded me of the old Tacoma narrows bridge in Wahington state when it started swaying when strong winds was blowing it around


----------



## Kijima

t21 said:


> sweet looking deck! i had to admit,the first thing i thought when i saw your pics of the deck it reminded me of the old Tacoma narrows bridge in Wahington state when it started swaying when strong winds was blowing it around


hahaha I could watch that bridge sway in the wind all day. It had great flow.

Im making some changes to the mold tomorrow actually. I will reduce the rear truck angle to 5 degrees and the front to 2.5 degrees as everything has a maximum flex point and I feel those angles just moved it closer to the max flex point, therefore actually reducing the flex a small amount.
Im going to get the rear end swinging around in a different way by making the wheelbase a tiny bit longer in the tail which will add progressive flex in the same way that thinning the tail in the v2.0 board did.
Its beautiful to ride now, but it will be even more lively with these mods.
V4.0 here we come.


----------



## MrDavey2Shoes

implemented hula hoop into longboarding today, suddenly my wheels stopped skidding out. I was going vertical too early in my turns and putting too much lateral force into my wheels too soon. Which I think translates to forcing out a turn too soon. ALSO, my Shama barefoot sandals were an awesome accompaniment.


----------



## Kijima

MrDavey2Shoes said:


> implemented hula hoop into longboarding today, suddenly my wheels stopped skidding out. I was going vertical too early in my turns and putting too much lateral force into my wheels too soon. Which I think translates to forcing out a turn too soon. ALSO, my Shama barefoot sandals were an awesome accompaniment.


Nice one man.
The hula hoop really adds timing to the turn, its kind of hard to find yourself in the wrong place when you implement it. Just like its hard to do a toe turn with your knee out, or a heel turn with your knee in.
By learning new habits and new muscle memories that automatically have us in the right body positions with the right timing, we eliminate all the movements that dont actually serve us.
That is the secret IMO. Elimination of the unnecessary, we are left with only that which is necessary.
Then we can lock those necessary elements down to muscle memory and free the mind up to focus on other things like watching out for bumps in the snow, rocks on the road or people who would take you out etc.

Next time you ride with hula hoop, focus on being low for the heel turn and high for the toe turn, with everything in the middle a graduation to the other.


----------



## Kijima

Man longboarding can teach us a lot about snowboarding.
Im riding flat ground every morning with my dog pulling me along, as she gets more tired we start to slow down. Any bad form I have becomes very obvious which confirmed to me today that leaning back in any turn is always a step away from the goal of generating speed and power.
We obviously need to weight the back of the board at certain times through the turn but unless you are trying to slow down leaning back is the wrong way to do it, squeezing the board forward is a far more efficient way to weight the back of the board.
When you think squeezing instead of leaning back the centrifugal force is a speed increaser, the board accelerates around the body.
When you think lean back the board stays there, and the body decelerates around the board. Its backwards thinking, unless slowing down is the goal.


----------



## Kijima

Something came to me this morning as I was dog skating, and I feel its the final piece to the puzzle.
The 6 concepts are effective and when put together form the basis of this method.
1,Knee out
2,Sit on toilet
3,Eagle wing upper body rotation
4,Knee in
5,Hips forward soul arch
6,Wax off upper body rotation

I have since added that it is critical to stay low in a heel turn and squeeze the board forward with the same energy that would normally make you rise up.
This serves 2 purposes.
7. Squeezing the board forward in a heel turn is a speed generator.
8. Remaining low gives you the perfect starting point so you can rise up in a toe turn which is also a speed generator.
When you add this to your method you have 2 point where speed generation can occur in a turn set.

And finally, the hula hoop is is what ties it all together, yeah its a backwards toe side movement compared to popular theory, but heres the reason why I believe it is a better method.
Think about the heel side turn, squeezing the board out in front.
Now where does that leave the board? Out in front right.
If we do nothing from that point on, we will always remain behind the board, so we need to get out in front of the board at some point if we are ever going to squeeze the board forward again when the cycle repeats itself.
So the toe turn is our chance to jump forward with our bodies, and getting forward grants us our next opportunity to squeeze the board forward.

9.The hula hoop movement is the fluid deliverer of this opportunity whilst allowing the hips to get forward in the toe turn

So it seems I finish with 9 points.
I am going to give myself some time to really concrete these movements in to my skateboarding and then finally, produce the method demonstration movie on the skateboard this summer, then back it up with an early season movie on the snowboard.

Its been 8 months since I made the first movie, some of the stuff I had correct right from the very start, some took a bit of work and a bit of egg on the old face lol, but I grew from every last piece of it.

Peace out boys and girls.

The original movie below.


----------



## Kijima

Ive got a few days riding on v4.0 now. This is the one. 
I will be making a small run of 10 decks and that will be it until next summer, if any of you guys want one speak up and I will make sure you get a personalized one with your name written on the core. 
This first batch will be JP¥30,000 and after that they will be priced higher.
Deck only. 
Suits 10 inch trucks. 
Legit snowboard carving experience.
Money back to anyone who isnt satisfied, no questions. 
Also I will be doing a group shipping order to the US via Wigmar so shipping should not be too expensive collectively. 

Thank you.


----------



## Kijima

Im also working on an electric upgrade kit that will be available as a direct bolt on next summer.


----------



## WigMar

Version 4.0 has some camber! Looking at the thinness of the deck and the video of a previous prototype, I'm assuming it's pretty flexible. Flexing mid turn must progressively change the rake angle on the trucks, right? That would change the turning radius of the trucks, perhaps a lot like center flexing a sidecut. Am I on the right path here? I'm intrigued.


----------



## NT.Thunder

Kijima said:


> Im also working on an electric upgrade kit that will be available as a direct bolt on next summer.


This would be handy, especially after hurting my calf Thursday evening, hurts bad when pushing. 

I'm still keen on the OneWheel XR though, just need to put some money away.


----------



## Kijima

WigMar said:


> Version 4.0 has some camber! Looking at the thinness of the deck and the video of a previous prototype, I'm assuming it's pretty flexible. Flexing mid turn must progressively change the rake angle on the trucks, right? That would change the turning radius of the trucks, perhaps a lot like center flexing a sidecut. Am I on the right path here? I'm intrigued.


Exactly the right path mate. v4.0 flexes back to flat under my 90kg of corona bread eating weight lol. Really it depends on where you put your feet, I am putting my front foot right in the pocket and back foot more toward the middle as that makes the tail walk around more and really pops out of turns. 

Im also adding a very slight squeeze to my toe turns now which is lots of fun and a huge speed adder. 
I really need to get a vid of where Im at now after a week riding this thing.


----------



## Kijima

Here they come. . .


----------



## WigMar

I think making the tail walk out more is key to achieving that snowboarding feel. Those topsheets are beautiful!


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## NT.Thunder

@Kijima

Been a while, how's the longboard production going?

How's Japan looking in regards to CV19 and getting a season there early next year?


----------



## Kijima

Long time no see peeps!
I hope you are all healthy and still sane 

In Japan life has returned to normal so the season will be normal with the exception of no tourists I think, resorts will be fine but accommodation owners in a few areas will be quiet for sure. 

I have been making boards all summer.
The twins are ready for sale, I went crazy on the widths so I can accommodate everyone. 
23, 24, 25 ,26 ,27 ,28 and 30cm waist widths are in stock.
















Now I am half way through the powder boards and after that I start carving boards. 










I also got good at making dourdough lol


----------



## MrDavey2Shoes

These look amazing - I’m holding out for a carving board this is good news!


----------



## Scalpelman

What’s that dark one in the middle. That thing has edge for days.


----------



## Jkb818

Sick looking decks!


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## Kijima

Scalpelman said:


> What’s that dark one in the middle. That thing has edge for days.


Thats a 21/22 prototype carve board but this years model has the same outline. 
The prototype is actually pressed in the same mold as the twin and has the same radius as the twin but instead of curving in for the nose/tail it contines with more edge. That portion of edge is lifted and larger radius. It will only touch the snow at extreme board angles, all other times the board will ride like the twin rather than a longer edge board. 
Long edge boards are slow to react but have amazing traction, Im hoping to fuse agility and traction with this idea.


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## Kijima

Jkb818 said:


> Sick looking decks!


Thanks man.


----------



## Kijima

This is one of the wides, 28 or 30cm I can't remember. 
































The full mug shot. From L to R
30cm 28cm 27cm 25cm 24cm 23cm


----------



## bazman

Beautiful looking boards!


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## MrDavey2Shoes

The base pops so well against the wood topsheet


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## Jkb818

Yeah I’m feeling the teal blue bass and Japanese lettering


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## Jkb818

Love to see a black stain wood version. Personal preference.


----------



## MODO

Looking good my man. What r the flex ratings, and how do u determine the flex ? The board on top with the flat nose and tail, what is that. Interested COLORADO 🤙🏻🏂🏂


----------



## smellysell

I want one of the widest twins! 

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


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## MODO

What side cut radiuses and lengths? THANKS ( MODO )


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## Kijima

Jkb818 said:


> Yeah I’m feeling the teal blue bass and Japanese lettering


Thanks  Its a custom color that I painstakingly picked from a pantone chart and had made by crown in sintered 4001 material. Lots of $$$ and risk there, but Im super happy with it and it is very fast with the professional stone structure and wax future job that every board gets.


----------



## Kijima

Jkb818 said:


> Love to see a black stain wood version. Personal preference.


Everything is possible


----------



## Kijima

MODO said:


> Looking good my man. What r the flex ratings, and how do u determine the flex ? The board on top with the flat nose and tail, what is that. Interested COLORADO 🤙🏻🏂🏂


Great question.
The twins are very flexible but not noodles at all. All my boards have 100% bamboo core which has a very high rebound rate so the boards are super snappy.
I believe in flex for carving and these boards are designed to be firm outside the feet but softer between the feet. This makes them able to flex into the constantly variable positions you need to maintain edge in snow during a carved turn and then it rebounds and flips you back out .
Every rider so far loves the flex, from 45kg girls to big fat bread eating men like myself lol.
I've not had a single unhappy customer/tester to this point 

The pow board that you see above is stiffer so the nose does not flex back in deep pow. No flex zone between the feet on this one but it has a soft flatish tail that makes for very comfortable soft landings off pillows and general high speed powder jumping.
Ive tested that shape for 3 seasons in super deep conditions, over that time it morphed into stiff nose, stiff middle, soft tail.


MODO said:


> What side cut radiuses and lengths? THANKS ( MODO )


The twins are 152 with 10m radius. I built a heap of different variations and this one was the best by far, actually it's the most fun board Ive ever ridden on hard pack in my life.
Im left field lol, so I come at my designs in a way that makes sense to me rather than following protocol of building say a 152, 155, 157 and a 159 in nearly identical widths I build only 152 length because of the nippy, care free way that edge length behaves. I don't need slightly longer, slightly less nimble versions of it, I only need wider versions of the very same shape so every rider regardless of boot size can enjoy the same thing exactly.


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## Kijima

smellysell said:


> I want one of the widest twins!
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


That would be 30cm waist which is 31cm wide at the inserts


----------



## NT.Thunder

Nice work @Kijima and looks like you have been super busy over the summer, welcome back.

Can't wait to see a few YouTube clips & reviews of the boards this season, fingers crossed international travel is a go for the Japan season and if so I'm outta here!!


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## Jkb818

And what would you consider the right width for someone with a 27 mondo boot size


----------



## Kijima

NT.Thunder said:


> Nice work @Kijima and looks like you have been super busy over the summer, welcome back.
> 
> Can't wait to see a few YouTube clips & reviews of the boards this season, fingers crossed international travel is a go for the Japan season and if so I'm outta here!!


Cheers man 
It was 33 degrees and 90% humidity all fking summer lol, but today I have long sleeves and long pants on, 17c. It flips like a pancake from season to season in Japan. 

I think the Japanese gov will allow travel inward, possibly with an isolation period which is no big deal for seasonaires but quite a big deal for people with jobs and families to get back to, but there just isn't many planes in the sky so ticket prices will be high no doubt. 
It's a tough one. . . If you do make it over, head to nozawa onsen and we can shred some laps together, go for day trips, talk shit etc, lol.


----------



## Kijima

Jkb818 said:


> And what would you consider the right width for someone with a 27 mondo boot size


That completely depends on your stance angles and how deep you wish to carve. If you want to lay it down I recommend flush on the heel side and 1cm boot underhang on the toe side. 
For duck footers that means superwide. For FF stance that usually means more narrow. 
I dropped from a 30cm board to a 27cm board when I changed to FF stance, you just keep rotating binding angles until you get the right clearance both sides. 

I did ride a 32cm board for half the season, setting up flush on the heel but having 3 or 4cm boot underhang on the toe side so if I can do it anybody can so long as they follow my methodology, when I was duck footed I enjoyed that clearance toe side. 

This brings me to another point unrelated to your question but here goes anyway lol.
I skated a lot over summer and have further refined my method but after all the shit I took last season I am somewhat reluctant to post my thoughts so I will simply do my best to make a vid early in the season showing how I move my body to get the results and everyone can simply watch it or not watch it. 
We don't need any more bad vibes and butthurt people including myself lol, but I have made good progress in both technique and simplification.


----------



## MODO

KIJIMA, R U JAPANESE ? How long u live in JAPAN ? Your boards r interesting. R wide boards popular there? Maybe some day I make it. 🏂🤙🏻🤪


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## Kijima

MODO said:


> KIJIMA, R U JAPANESE ? How long u live in JAPAN ? Your boards r interesting. R wide boards popular there? Maybe some day I make it. 🏂🤙🏻🤪


I am an Aussie who fell in love with snowboarding in 2008, fell in love with snowboarding in Japan after my first trip in 2011 and moved here in 2015, to a small town with a ski resort quite close to Nozawa Onsen, Shiga Kogen, Myoko, Madarao etc. 

Japanese have small feet so they dont usually need wide boards and they also typically ride FF stance for carving. It's westerners who want to carve with a duck foot so those superwides I make are aimed at them more than Japanese riders. 
I hope you make it! Im happy to ride with everyone


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## Jkb818

I gotta experiment with FF...I think it would suit my riding style well.


----------



## Kijima

Jkb818 said:


> I gotta experiment with FF...I think it would suit my riding style well.


It changed my life man. 
Forget the numbers of the angles, set up for clearance, the back foot needs to be about 2 clicks less angle than the front foot so as to get your big toe out close to the edge, and then you need to learn a new body position as your neutral, if you keep the same muscle memory from duck riding you will have a tendency to constantly turn heel side, I see many people have this problem when one footing/skating on flats because it was the duck foot keeping them straight before and when you lose that you need to keep yourself straight with your shoulders


----------



## bazman

Kijima said:


> I skated a lot over summer and have further refined my method but after all the shit I took last season I am somewhat reluctant to post my thoughts so I will simply do my best to make a vid early in the season showing how I move my body to get the results and everyone can simply watch it or not watch it.
> We don't need any more bad vibes and butthurt people including myself lol, but I have made good progress in both technique and simplification.


Please keep posting! Don't be put off by the feedback/discussion. Videos would be great if you can post them - I am a visual person and struggle to follow along with the written technique descriptions


----------



## MrDavey2Shoes

I’ll be switching to FF this season. I noticed an improvement when I set my back foot to 0 toward the end of last season. I can see that forward angle will be even more beneficial for carving. I think I’ve taken it as far as I can with my back hip facing the wrong direction.

It’s interesting, like the whole rocker revolution returning to camber, people are returning to FF stances.

Any updates on the “dorsiflection for toeside” T shirts lol


----------



## WigMar

I spent all last season around +6, +27. I found it to be a very versatile stance for all mountain riding from groomers to the trees. 

I'm looking forward to going more extreme with my angles on my carving board this season. Watching riders ride very FF stances looks more centered to me. Seems like it's easier to lay down those heelside carves. I think the hardest thing to get used to will be the change in splay between the feet.


----------



## Jkb818

At this point it would be kind of stupid for me not to try more forward stance considering two main boards in my quiver are very directional. I actually don’t mind riding fakie and I’m pretty decent at it I’ve just had a thing for directional boards lately.


----------



## Kijima

MrDavey2Shoes said:


> I’ll be switching to FF this season. I noticed an improvement when I set my back foot to 0 toward the end of last season. I can see that forward angle will be even more beneficial for carving. I think I’ve taken it as far as I can with my back hip facing the wrong direction.
> 
> It’s interesting, like the whole rocker revolution returning to camber, people are returning to FF stances.
> 
> Any updates on the “dorsiflection for toeside” T shirts lol


You nailed it there when you mentioned your hip. 
There is a certain feeling about the way the rear femur sits in the hip socket and a particular way you can generate the hula hoop motion in that rear hip joint when you go FF.
You can feel it if you put your feet as if you were FF on a board and squat a little bit, your behind will drop rearward and then you can play with moving that rear hip joint around in a hula hoop fashion. 
Lol @ dorsiflection T shirts haha.


----------



## Kijima

WigMar said:


> I spent all last season around +6, +27. I found it to be a very versatile stance for all mountain riding from groomers to the trees.
> 
> I'm looking forward to going more extreme with my angles on my carving board this season. Watching riders ride very FF stances looks more centered to me. Seems like it's easier to lay down those heelside carves. I think the hardest thing to get used to will be the change in splay between the feet.


It's that differential between the angles that kind of locks up the rear hip joint making everything harder heel side. 

I recommend simulatiing FF stance, squatting a bit and getting to know the rear femur/hip joint very well. Notice how the hips square up, no longer parallel with direction of travel.
Straighten your front leg and you find yourself in the back seat, then allow your front leg to bend a bit and you fall forward into centre and through to the front seat. 
Front to back weighting can be totally controlled by bending or straightening the front leg


----------



## Scalpelman

Kijima said:


> It's that differential between the angles that kind of locks up the rear hip joint making everything harder heel side.
> 
> I recommend simulatiing FF stance, squatting a bit and getting to know the rear femur/hip joint very well. Notice how the hips square up, no longer parallel with direction of travel.
> Straighten your front leg and you find yourself in the back seat, then allow your front leg to bend a bit and you fall forward into centre and through to the front seat.
> Front to back weighting can be totally controlled by bending or straightening the front leg


Is that how you decided your ff angles or do you play around with them? A balance between toe clearance and hip motion?


----------



## Kijima

Scalpelman said:


> Is that how you decided your ff angles or do you play around with them? A balance between toe clearance and hip motion?


I really don't care what my angles are, so long as they are both forward and relatively similar angles. The feet dont drive your turns, the upper body does that and as long as you can achieve your upper body rotations as per my last youtube vid you will succeed. 
It is true however that the higher your numbers the more you favour heel side, and heel side being most peoples more difficult side, it pays to set up in a heel friendly fashion. 

So the feet really do two things. 
Firstly to apply pressure primarily in the heel and toe axis but also side to side, if you don't utilize the side to side action of your feet you lose ability to fine tune your balance. 
Secondly they cause you to boot out, and you really want to avoid that.

So setting up is primarily a clearance game for me, if you set your clearances right it's actually the board width that will dictate your stance angles, as I said I run different angles on different width boards but always the same clearances.

Set your boots up flush on the heel, 1cm underhang on the toe and see what the angles are. Then rotate the back foot 2 clicks back which does eat into your clearance a bit but I never boot out on the back foot, always the front.


----------



## MODO

I have a good question for yo. I don’t know anyone that can answer it🤪🤪 just using round numbers, I u have a board with a 25 cm. Waist and put 1/2 inch risers under your bindings in reference to boot out. What would that make your boards width equal to? I hope I explained it clearly 🙄🙄🏂. If not tell me an I will try another approach. THANKS BRO 🏂🤙🏻


----------



## Kijima

MODO said:


> I have a good question for yo. I don’t know anyone that can answer it🤪🤪 just using round numbers, I u have a board with a 25 cm. Waist and put 1/2 inch risers under your bindings in reference to boot out. What would that make your boards width equal to? I hope I explained it clearly 🙄🙄🏂. If not tell me an I will try another approach. THANKS BRO 🏂🤙🏻


I tried that myself when I first saw Ryan Knapton and wanted to carve but didn't have wide boards.
The truth is that it does give extra clearance but only at low board angles. 
To carve deeply you absolutely need to tilt the board over more and more, and as you tilt the board the clearance that risers gives you becomes less and less. 
So in the end it does not work.


----------



## MODO

What good r risers then? 🙄🙄


----------



## MODO

What width board do u ride for doing a full laid out carve ? And length


----------



## MODO

I c these guys on the KORUA VIDS. DOING FULL LAID OUT CARVES and those boards r only 26.9 width. While RYAN doing the same carve on a 32 cm waist. I am trying to figure this one out. CLUE ME IN 😳😳


----------



## Kijima

MODO said:


> What good r risers then? 🙄🙄


Not much good for us lol


----------



## Kijima

MODO said:


> What width board do u ride for doing a full laid out carve ? And length


This season I will ride 27cm and 28cm waist boards. The 28cm I will use when the snow gets softer for extra toe clearance. FF stance, 28cm/US10 size boots.


----------



## Kijima

MODO said:


> I c these guys on the KORUA VIDS. DOING FULL LAID OUT CARVES and those boards r only 26.9 width. While RYAN doing the same carve on a 32 cm waist. I am trying to figure this one out. CLUE ME IN 😳😳


Ryan needs a super wide board because he uses duck stance. If he swapped to FF and worked on heel turns rather than 180 butters you would see him back away from superwides like i did. 
But its all about doing whatever makes you happy and I'd say he is pretty happy.


----------



## NT.Thunder

Kijima said:


> Cheers man
> It was 33 degrees and 90% humidity all fking summer lol, but today I have long sleeves and long pants on, 17c. It flips like a pancake from season to season in Japan.
> 
> I think the Japanese gov will allow travel inward, possibly with an isolation period which is no big deal for seasonaires but quite a big deal for people with jobs and families to get back to, but there just isn't many planes in the sky so ticket prices will be high no doubt.
> It's a tough one. . . If you do make it over, head to nozawa onsen and we can shred some laps together, go for day trips, talk shit etc, lol.


Yep Nozawa Onsen was likely the place we were heading to should borders open, will depend on isolation requirements though at this stage.

Any recommendations for accomm for a family of four that won't break the bank?

A couple of laps and beers sounds like a plan


----------



## Kijima

NT.Thunder said:


> Yep Nozawa Onsen was likely the place we were heading to should borders open, will depend on isolation requirements though at this stage.
> 
> Any recommendations for accomm for a family of four that won't break the bank?
> 
> A couple of laps and beers sounds like a plan


There is lots of accom up there and it will be quiet. I reckon there will be good deals on the usual accom sites


----------



## Yeahti87

Ryan Knapton carves in a completely different realm. He’s godlike and the combination of 80 degree ~ board tilt in regular AND switch Eurocarves, 540s between the carves and crazy butters requires so much underhang both toe and heelside, the sidecuts he rides and the duck stance. He’s hard to relate to though, it’s not the rabbit 99 % of the snowboarders can chase. You can chase his Euros with a very specific setup and in a very limited conditions but you’re not gonna do what really defines his style. Great that he’s been contributing so much to the soft boot Eurocarving hype and his progression tips help to make better riders. I wasn’t keen on snowboarding seeing the jib rats, that was what I understood to be snowboarding. It was Knapton’s carves that got me hyped after the first day. There’s a shitload to learn from him but 99,9 % of us will never be able to truly imitate his style. If you watch his vids on 158W Custom X there’s a big difference in the board tilt in Euros.

A really nice guy and super fun to watch but it’s more like 1800 triple corks in a carving and all mountain freestyle pack.

The Korua guys ride double FF angles (Nico Wolken is the most extreme there) most of the time but they cannot hit that tilt both heelside and toeside at the same shot. They can do a very high angled toeside Euro to a toeside revert but these are the vid shots made on a specific binding setting for the shot - an underhang on the toeside and the heels pushed way over the edge but in that particular shot they don’t try a heel Eurocarve. There are shots with a super aggressive heelside Euro but then hit the stop button and check the toeside overhang. They also utilize dorsiflexion a lot when doing both Eurocarve turns in a one shot but then the tilt is closer to 45 degree both sides. That is why 8,6 ~~ meter sidecuts work. A decambered 8,6 m sidecut board with a 80 degree board tilt makes like 3-4 m circle.

Similar shots to the one like this. A very aggressive heelside carve with plenty of tilt but watch the toes:









What Korua guys do is more relatable to us, we can actually (hopefully) get to a similar level if we push hard for years. Same with Nidecker’s Slice and Dice series for a more freestyle feel.


----------



## Kijima

Yeahti87 said:


> Ryan Knapton carves in a completely different realm. He’s godlike and the combination of 80 degree ~ board tilt in regular AND switch Eurocarves, 540s between the carves and crazy butters requires so much underhang both toe and heelside, the sidecuts he rides and the duck stance. He’s hard to relate to though, it’s not the rabbit 99 % of the snowboarders can chase. You can chase his Euros with a very specific setup and in a very limited conditions but you’re not gonna do what really defines his style. Great that he’s been contributing so much to the soft boot Eurocarving hype and his progression tips help to make better riders. I wasn’t keen on snowboarding seeing the jib rats, that was what I understood to be snowboarding. It was Knapton’s carves that got me hyped after the first day. There’s a shitload to learn from him but 99,9 % of us will never be able to truly imitate his style. If you watch his vids on 158W Custom X there’s a big difference in the board tilt in Euros.
> 
> A really nice guy and super fun to watch but it’s more like 1800 triple corks in a carving and all mountain freestyle pack.
> 
> The Korua guys ride double FF angles (Nico Wolken is the most extreme there) most of the time but they cannot hit that tilt both heelside and toeside at the same shot. They can do a very high angled toeside Euro to a toeside revert but these are the vid shots made on a specific binding setting for the shot - an underhang on the toeside and the heels pushed way over the edge but in that particular shot they don’t try a heel Eurocarve. There are shots with a super aggressive heelside Euro but then hit the stop button and check the toeside overhang. They also utilize dorsiflexion a lot when doing both Eurocarve turns in a one shot but then the tilt is closer to 45 degree both sides. That is why 8,6 ~~ meter sidecuts work. A decambered 8,6 m sidecut board with a 80 degree board tilt makes like 3-4 m circle.
> 
> Similar shots to the one like this. A very aggressive heelside carve with plenty of tilt but watch the toes:
> View attachment 154878
> 
> 
> What Korua guys do is more relatable to us, we can actually (hopefully) get to a similar level if we push hard for years. Same with Nidecker’s Slice and Dice series for a more freestyle feel.


Some good observations there man. 
To sum it up, nobody is killing it both heel side and toe side which is exactly what I am trying to accomplish. 
Fingers crossed lol


----------



## Yeahti87

Kijima said:


> Some good observations there man.
> To sum it up, nobody is killing it both heel side and toe side which is exactly what I am trying to accomplish.
> Fingers crossed lol


Don’t get me wrong, both Korua/Nidecker guys and Knapton are killing it in a different style. In my opinion you seem to be working on something that is a mix - very wide but not ultra wide boards like Ryan while riding double forward similar to the Korua guys.


----------



## Kijima

Yeahti87 said:


> Don’t get me wrong, both Korua/Nidecker guys and Knapton are killing it in a different style. In my opinion you seem to be working on something that is a mix - very wide but not ultra wide boards like Ryan while riding double forward similar to the Korua guys.


They are killing it within their niche no doubt, everyone is doing their best out there and having lots of fun.
I do all my groundwork on my skateboard and then translate it to the snowboard which was why I built the longboards that flex like a snowboard.

Last season I noticed Ryans hip position is the reason his toe turns are so powerful, and that he has very good dorsiflexion to keep his board angle away from 90 degrees.
I also studied a Japanese teenage girl called Kira Kobayashi who absolutely kills it on her heel turns.

But I found linking both of them together impossible and thats why I truely believe the way to link them is to swing your hips around the back in a hula hoop fashion rather than trying to go up and over.
On the skateboard Ive already got it down. . .

For me the holy grail is to do beautiful turns to the left and beautiful turns to the right, then share the info with everyone. Not to serve my ego or any bullshit like that but because I just love snowboarding so much that it never leaves my mind.
I actually walked away from a successful business and life in my home country Australia so I could live the snowboarding life in Japan and let me tell you it has not been easy lol. 

I believe the answer will be simple when we find it.


----------



## bazman

Kijima said:


> Some good observations there man.
> To sum it up, nobody is killing it both heel side and toe side which is exactly what I am trying to accomplish.
> Fingers crossed lol


Have you experimented with making any asymmetrical boards to see if they can help?


----------



## MODO

Grate write ups guys. I have a one wheel and it has helped my back side balance and turning a lot. But I have to say that the risers help🤪😎 IMO. PRACTICE PRACTICE 🤙🏻🏂 that’s all it takes LOL 🤪. I watch U TUBE ALL the time and some of these KOREN AND JAPANESE R AMAZING. I HAVE A 27 WAIST BOARD WITH 1/2 INCH RISERS and can do a full lay out carve with 10 US BOOTS. I am no grate boarder, but I have been surfing for 40 plus years and always try relate snowboarding to surfing 🏄🏼‍♂️🏄🏼🏂🤙🏻 JUST WAITING FOR THE SNOW. STAY SAFE GUYS 😎


----------



## Kijima

bazman said:


> Have you experimented with making any asymmetrical boards to see if they can help?


I played around with the idea, even to the point of cutting out an asymmetric base and bending the edges, it had smaller radius and shorter edge length heel side, but at that exact time I worked out how to improve my heel turns just by moving my body differently so I scrapped the idea. 
When I ride I feel that my board is like a trailer and my body is the car. The board is strapped to my feet and only goes to places my feet go lol so if I control how my body moves I completely control how my board moves. 
The board has no other option.


----------



## MODO

Yea I here ya. I am always experimenting LOL 🤓. One of my boards is a N.S PTOTO ASYM. U CAN FEEL THE DIFFERENCE HEEL SIDE BUTi really don’t need an asym. Board. I just changed my angels again 🙄🙄🙄


----------



## DaveMcI

Are all these drooling peoples going to be able to buy these? Maybe I missed a post, but how many American pesos do I need for a twin with a 10 side cut and a 30 waist? And I cant believe someone else thought pow boards need stiffer noses. I thought my misconceptions were from riding east coast powcreat.


----------



## Kijima

DaveMcI said:


> Are all these drooling peoples going to be able to buy these? Maybe I missed a post, but how many American pesos do I need for a twin with a 10 side cut and a 30 waist? And I cant believe someone else thought pow boards need stiffer noses. I thought my misconceptions were from riding east coast powcreat.


The one million dollar question. 

My boards are low volume and built for the high end Japanese market. 
Gentem sticks sell for ¥150,000 here which is like US$1500 and a burton custom for example sells for ¥90,000/US$900.
I have priced my boards at ¥100,000 or US$1000, if I were to go cheaper Japanese customers would be suspicious of the quality lol. Dont forget retail shops take half of that money when they sell one by the way. 

Now I know it sounds like big bucks in western markets but I think it would be rude to sell them cheaper in the US than in japan where they are made, but what I am going to do to ease the financial burden for international customers is offer free shipping world wide. 
Hopefully that will be enough to keep the international customers happy or at least without feeling they have raped lol.

And don't forget the boards are built with the highest quality materials throughout and come with a stone structured base grind, wax future wax job, I even wax the sidewalls and top sheet too. 

High price, legit high quality, limited numbers. 
That board you asked about for example, in 30cm waist I only have 5 in stock. 

よろしくお願いします　🙏


----------



## MrDavey2Shoes

I think $1000 is completely acceptable for a high quality low volume board hand built by a community member. That being said, I need to move some money around my bank accounts before purchasing! Lol


----------



## Kijima

MrDavey2Shoes said:


> I think $1000 is completely acceptable for a high quality low volume board hand built by a community member. That being said, I need to move some money around my bank accounts before purchasing! Lol


Thanks for the vibes!
I need to build a damn website first too lol. 

Another cool thing I can do for people who pre order in the summer time is put their name or initials on the board and Im also experimenting with glass fritt on the top sheet between the feet to add grip whilst one footing. If it works well like I think it will it can be added to your board at the time of building. 
Yesterday I pressed the last 162 Kiotoshi and started on the Taiyaki, I acted on feedback from customers and test riders and put a small tail on it making it a 151. 26cm, 28cm and 30cm variations. Pictured below is a custom order of the 26cm I built last month for a local girl shredder.


----------



## Kijima

The old taiyaki shape next to a base of the new Taiyaki


----------



## Kijima

And the glass fritt that I use. It all started as a grip tape alternative on the skate decks, I actually smash up apple juice bottles to make it and epoxy it on.


----------



## Jkb818

Kijima said:


> Thanks for the vibes!
> I need to build a damn website first too lol.
> 
> Another cool thing I can do for people who pre order in the summer time is put their name or initials on the board and Im also experimenting with glass fritt on the top sheet between the feet to add grip whilst one footing. If it works well like I think it will it can be added to your board at the time of building.
> Yesterday I pressed the last 162 Kiotoshi and started on the Taiyaki, I acted on feedback from customers and test riders and put a small tail on it making it a 151. 26cm, 28cm and 30cm variations. Pictured below is a custom order of the 26cm I built last month for a local girl shredder.
> View attachment 154895


That’s my type 😍


----------



## MrDavey2Shoes

Yea, Woa I want that one. Does that fall into the carver or powder shapes category? The shape speaks to me.


----------



## Kijima

MrDavey2Shoes said:


> Yea, Woa I want that one. Does that fall into the carver or powder shapes category? The shape speaks to me.


Well its both.
I use it as a pow board up to 40cm deep and a carve board in any condition, it has flex between the feet for carving.
It has the shortest edge of all the shapes so its the most nimble and probably the easiest to learn deep carving on because of that.
Long edges are very committal and good for big resorts with few people, short edges are very nimble and easy to navigate busy resorts on.

Im working on them now, I have 10x26cm, 5x28cm but I will keep one of those for myself and only 3x30cm which when I measured was actually 29.5cm.

8m radius on this board so it's smaller than the twin but the shorter edge length makes the turn size similar.

Im trying to press as many boards as I can before it gets too cold here and I only have 1 more shape to go after this one, the long edge carve board, so I may revisit the Taiyaki and make some more of the 28 and 29.5cm ones after that.


----------



## lifeisgold

Kijima said:


> sell for ¥150,000 here wh





Kijima said:


> I played around with the idea, even to the point of cutting out an asymmetric base and bending the edges, it had smaller radius and shorter edge length heel side, but at that exact time I worked out how to improve my heel turns just by moving my body differently so I scrapped the idea.
> When I ride I feel that my board is like a trailer and my body is the car. The board is strapped to my feet and only goes to places my feet go lol so if I control how my body moves I completely control how my board moves.
> The board has no other option.


 I still think the solution might be a rear binding that swivels 15-25 degrees but not swinging freely, rather one that has a bit of resistance that you need to force a bit. Even wilder would be a rear binding that allows the heal to lift off the board as it swivels (so that just the toes is connected like in telemark). After all, most major sports have that hip swivel and the heel need to come up to make that work otherwise you weight is all thrown off. Think golf or baseball swing, boxers punch, Thai kick or a million other cases the heel always lifts and pivots.The difference for me was immense, just standing on the floor and trying to make a snowboard motion you can feel your base get all wonky allow you heel to come up and pivot and you have really strong center of gravity. 

Ps Those board do look interesting would would then a try but they are well out of my price range anyhow.


----------



## Kijima

lifeisgold said:


> I still think the solution might be a rear binding that swivels 15-25 degrees but not swinging freely, rather one that has a bit of resistance that you need to force a bit. Even wilder would be a rear binding that allows the heal to lift off the board as it swivels (so that just the toes is connected like in telemark). After all, most major sports have that hip swivel and the heel need to come up to make that work otherwise you weight is all thrown off. Think golf or baseball swing, boxers punch, Thai kick or a million other cases the heel always lifts and pivots.The difference for me was immense, just standing on the floor and trying to make a snowboard motion you can feel your base get all wonky allow you heel to come up and pivot and you have really strong center of gravity.
> 
> Ps Those board do look interesting would would then a try but they are well out of my price range anyhow.


You could add longboarding to that list of activities that lift the heel, actually my modified NOW bindings do just that, allowing for virtual heel lift in toe turns. 
I am also an advocate of leaving the upper binding strap loose as well as the upper boot. 

I love your observations man.


----------



## lifeisgold

Kijima said:


> You could add longboarding to that list of activities that lift the heel, actually my modified NOW bindings do just that, allowing for virtual heel lift in toe turns.
> I am also an advocate of leaving the upper binding strap loose as well as the upper boot.
> 
> I love your observations man.


Thanks, same.

I spend a totally inappropriate amount of time thinking about snowboarding considering how many actual days I get on the mountain.


----------



## MrDavey2Shoes

@lifeisgold A base from a binding like a Lien by K2 with the soft pods beneath might give a similar result to what you're going after there. I found when I rode Union Strata that I had a ridiculous amount of movement in the base as far as nose to tail movement. Obviously they dont "swivel" and the movement is not to the degree you're suggesting, but maybe you'll like them.

Personally, I like to feel firmly planted on the board when carving in a manner I'd put under the category of "charging" (figure 8 movements) so I ride Katanas. They keep me feeling tight but have decent lateral movement allowing me to engage the edges where I need to. I just picked up some NOW IPO, I'm going to give softer surfy bindings another shot for the style of turning we're talking about here. (hula hoop movements)


----------



## MODO

Sounds good. I’ll check out those LIEN BINDINGS. 🏂🤙🏻


----------



## Kijima

lifeisgold said:


> Thanks, same.
> 
> I spend a totally inappropriate amount of time thinking about snowboarding considering how many actual days I get on the mountain.


The first step is admitting it.


----------



## Kijima

MrDavey2Shoes said:


> @lifeisgold A base from a binding like a Lien by K2 with the soft pods beneath might give a similar result to what you're going after there. I found when I rode Union Strata that I had a ridiculous amount of movement in the base as far as nose to tail movement. Obviously they dont "swivel" and the movement is not to the degree you're suggesting, but maybe you'll like them.
> 
> Personally, I like to feel firmly planted on the board when carving in a manner I'd put under the category of "charging" (figure 8 movements) so I ride Katanas. They keep me feeling tight but have decent lateral movement allowing me to engage the edges where I need to. I just picked up some NOW IPO, I'm going to give softer surfy bindings another shot for the style of turning we're talking about here. (hula hoop movements)


Loose boot tops and top straps = easier dorsiflexion = better toe side performance for peeps who are gettin low.


----------



## Jkb818

lifeisgold said:


> I spend a totally inappropriate amount of time thinking about snowboarding considering how many actual days I get on the mountain.


Same here bro


----------



## MrDavey2Shoes

@Kijima How loose are we talking? Not enough that your boot slides around noticeably in the binding Imagine.

I’m going to see if I can get used to that feeling of not being totally binded down. It will be an adjustment, certainly. I think the movement in SkateTech will help me with some dorsi movement too.

I agree with the boots, no need to over tighten a properly fitted boot.


----------



## Kijima

MrDavey2Shoes said:


> @Kijima How loose are we talking? Not enough that your boot slides around noticeably in the binding Imagine.
> 
> I’m going to see if I can get used to that feeling of not being totally binded down. It will be an adjustment, certainly. I think the movement in SkateTech will help me with some dorsi movement too.
> 
> I agree with the boots, no need to over tighten a properly fitted boot.


Just enough that when you tilt toe side it allows your board to stay a few degrees less angle than your feet.
Every little bit of angle you can remove from the board in a toe side lay down turn is priceless.

It's equivalent to increased dorsiflexion, if you max out your natural dorsiflexion with stretching pre season and gain a little from your boots, a little from your top strap and a little from your bindings you have a real advantage.
The ill fated heel lock taught me how important that movement really is.

And it's October now, time to get serious with your pre season routine.


----------



## WigMar

Kijima said:


> And it's October now, time to get serious with your pre season routine.


I couldn't be more stoked.


----------



## Scalpelman

Reinvigorating my workout routine as we speak. Can’t wait for snowfall.


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## MrDavey2Shoes

do share


----------



## Scalpelman

I like kettle bell. Been doing it for years. It’s a core blasting and high rep squat circuit course of moves—flow if you will. Constant kettle motion for 40 min. So it’s a bit cardio too. I got the workout from michael skogg dvd my wife bought me for Christmas. I’m telling you it allows my 5’5” 160lb frame to throw around 163 stiff full camber decks.


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## Kijima

La nina


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## Yeahti87

If the Corona panic won’t cause unecessary lockdowns in the EU I’m on a glacier in 1,5 week yay!


----------



## Kijima

Yeahti87 said:


> If the Corona panic won’t cause unecessary lockdowns in the EU I’m on a glacier in 1,5 week yay!


I hope you get there bro!


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## Kijima

Today I did a quick vid the pre season trainers amongst you might appreciate.


----------



## Paxford

Kijima said:


> You could add longboarding to that list of activities that lift the heel, actually my modified NOW bindings do just that, allowing for virtual heel lift in toe turns.
> I am also an advocate of leaving the upper binding strap loose as well as the upper boot.
> 
> I love your observations man.


You selling the pucks for the NOW’s too? They sound like my jam.


----------



## Scalpelman

Kijima said:


> Today I did a quick vid the pre season trainers amongst you might appreciate.


Thanks for the hula hoop explanation. Was having a hard time conceptualizing. I guess I do that already but don’t think about it. I’ll have to pay attention.


----------



## Olivetta

thanks for the time that you spent for explain it 

May I ask for same video in dack stance?

i would love to see the movement.

thanks so much in advance


----------



## Kijima

Paxford said:


> You selling the pucks for the NOW’s too? They sound like my jam.


Nah man,its something I am testing out this season, there's no guarantee it will work well but I'll know soon enough. if it does work you could make your own out of a chopping board


----------



## Kijima

Olivetta said:


> thanks for the time that you spent for explain it
> 
> May I ask for same video in dack stance?
> 
> i would love to see the movement.
> 
> thanks so much in advance


It would look the same except my back knee would be sticking out like a sore thumb lol. This video has no upper body rotation in it as its not needed to describe the movement of the hips but when rotation is added, the duck foot really blocks my ability to get the heel side body position I need so I gave up on duck stance for carving.
It is my opinion that you can choose either heel turns or duck stance, I choose heel turns.


----------



## Kijima

Scalpelman said:


> Thanks for the hula hoop explanation. Was having a hard time conceptualizing. I guess I do that already but don’t think about it. I’ll have to pay attention.


There us only a subtle difference between hula hooping around to the toe turn and crossing over like normal but the effect it has on the toe turn is huge. 
When hula hooping, as you weight the toe edge you are already in an arched position which has a direct line of force to the edge and cannot be compressed.
If you come across your center line to the toe edge with even 1% of squat in your hips you will begin to further compress and that will only get worse as you tilt.


----------



## Kijima

Rocking an Insta page now if anyone is interested.

@kijimasnowboards


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## Kijima

And a new logo too.


----------



## MCrides

This whole thread I thought the hula hoop involved moving from aft to fore as you progressed through a heel side turn. Could not make sense of how that could be beneficial. The video makes clear that you still move fore to aft throughout the turn, you just hula hoop _in order to get forward in the first place._


----------



## lotechpeter

MCrides said:


> This whole thread I thought the hula hoop involved moving from aft to fore as you progressed through a heel side turn. Could not make sense of how that could be beneficial. The video makes clear that you still move fore to aft throughout the turn, you just hula hoop _in order to get forward in the first place._


I thought the same thing until I saw the video, it now makes more sense.


----------



## DaveMcI

I needed a refresher on what hoola hoping is


----------



## Scalpelman

Now there’s a video worth watching.


----------



## Kijima

MCrides said:


> This whole thread I thought the hula hoop involved moving from aft to fore as you progressed through a heel side turn. Could not make sense of how that could be beneficial. The video makes clear that you still move fore to aft throughout the turn, you just hula hoop _in order to get forward in the first place._


This thread has been a progression. When I first did the hula hoop I was moving backwards through the toe turn but it still felt good. The reason is that I was in an arched body position for the first time and the arched toe turn is so brutally effective that my turns improved a lot. 
Then the season ended. 
I created the flexible longboard.
I spend hundreds of hours practicing over the summer and ended up where I am at now, just using the hula hoop as a link between heel and toe turns. 

Many people laughed at me and thought I was off my head lol but I believe I have landed in a good place with my method. 
This thread is really a display of experimental thinking and what it can offer. 

This season I can put it to the snow. 
No highbacks. Short edges. Flexible boards. Loose binding straps and body movements that I have locked down well before the snow even fell. 

Stay tuned and stay happy lads


----------



## Snowdaddy

Kijima said:


> This thread has been a progression. When I first did the hula hoop I was moving backwards through the toe turn but it still felt good. The reason is that I was in an arched body position for the first time and the arched toe turn is so brutally effective that my turns improved a lot.
> Then the season ended.
> I created the flexible longboard.
> I spend hundreds of hours practicing over the summer and ended up where I am at now, just using the hula hoop as a link between heel and toe turns.
> 
> Many people laughed at me and thought I was off my head lol but I believe I have landed in a good place with my method.
> This thread is really a display of experimental thinking and what it can offer.
> 
> This season I can put it to the snow.
> No highbacks. Short edges. Flexible boards. Loose binding straps and body movements that I have locked down well before the snow even fell.
> 
> Stay tuned and stay happy lads


I guess you now officially turned into your mother


----------



## Kijima

Snowdaddy said:


> I guess you now officially turned into your mother


Bro even my mother thinks Im crazy


----------



## Kijima

This is how I rotate my hips now 
The hula hoop motion from end of heel to start of toe happens very quickly, as does end of toe to start of heel.
This motion gives a direct line of force to the heel edge in heel turns and the toe edge in toe turns


----------



## Kijima

Here is an exercise that anyone can do to prove the squat/arch theory to themselves.
Do a squat, get low and see how your toes come off the ground. The line of force is directed to your heels, so it is a very effective position for weighting the heel edge.
Do an arch and get as low as you can, note how your heels come off the ground, this is a very effective position for weighting the toe edge.

Now lets simulate how snowboarders do a toe turn.
We maintain a slightly squatted position, no arch, and lean over with the upper body to weight the toe edge（simulate it right now）. This creates a Z pattern, with the line of force beginning at the head and finishing at the ass. No line of force to the snowboard at all, to deliver the energy to the snowboard it must go through the riders core muscles and legs which is very inefficient. It becomes a battle of gravity/centrifugal forces of the turn vs your muscles and usually the rider loses that battle.

Skateboard taught me this so it is a fact to me and therefore my goal became to eliminate squat from my toe turns, hence the hula hoop being so effective even when I was weighting my board back to front in toe turns last season.

So my rules for body movement have become
1. Squat/arch
2. Squeeze throughout the turn, not leaning forward or back with my body but by forcing the board forward throughout the turn. Keeping the head low is super important as you reach the end of the turn. Vertical rise should be avoided.
3. Rotate upper body, in the last few months I have actually been working on achieving that rotation with my hips only and keeping the upper body quiet, but to start out upper body rotation is simple so I recommend it.
4. Then link the turns together via hula hoop.

My rules for hardware have become
1. Forward lean on bindings hurts heel turns because it keeps you on top of your board when you should be pushing away from your board
2. Soft boards flex much easier, something you will be spending a lot of time doing, so why have a stiff board.
3. Reduce board angle in toe side turns with dorsiflexion and loose binding top straps.
4. FF stance, even if you don't want to ride FF stance all the time, you will never comprehend the correct body movements trying to learn with duck stance, so learn it with FF stance and work your way back to duck if that's what you want.


----------



## MrDavey2Shoes

I was riding 18+ 0 today because Pow days are not the day to try drastically new stances lol. However by bringing my back foot from -5 to 0 it is already noticeably easier to implement some of these motions. What’s interesting is as you start to implement the stuff we’re talking about here it feels unatural to have your back foot at a 0, and more so 18+ is not nearly enough on the front foot. It restricts opening the knee. It was very obvious where my stance was holding me back. Once all this rare east coast Pow Pow is groomed out I’m going all in on ++ with at least 1 setup.


----------



## Kijima

MrDavey2Shoes said:


> I was riding 18+ 0 today because Pow days are not the day to try drastically new stances lol. However by bringing my back foot from -5 to 0 it is already noticeably easier to implement some of these motions. What’s interesting is as you start to implement the stuff we’re talking about here it feels unatural to have your back foot at a 0, and more so 18+ is not nearly enough on the front foot. It restricts opening the knee. It was very obvious where my stance was holding me back. Once all this rare east coast Pow Pow is groomed out I’m going all in on ++ with at least 1 setup.


Nice one man. Your season just took a leap into the experimental territory I spent last season playing with. Enjoy the ride


----------



## Scalpelman

Dude I was riding backed off to 18/0 on a powder board today. Better for switch. 

But MAN, that shoulder turn advice you gave me on another thread completely fixed my heelside carves. I was railing it today. Thanks so much! @Kijima ;


----------



## Kijima

Scalpelman said:


> But MAN, that shoulder turn advice you gave me on another thread completely fixed my heelside carves. I was railing it today. Thanks so much! @Kijima ;


Good to hear man.


----------



## wrathfuldeity

@Kijima Yesterday did a tad of adjustment of stance angles, to +18, 0. It was great! Had smoother engagement of both heel and toeside and much improved mogul riding. Noticed that if I got too transverse in the shoulders to the fall line I would have to do 45-90 degrees hop/flick to save myself...and had to make a slight adjustment to riding flats. Anyway love it, plan to stick with the +18, 0 for 1 more day and then give ++ a go.


----------



## MrDavey2Shoes

I found +24 +9 to be a nice compromise between ++ and the utility of duck/0


----------



## MCrides

Coming back to the thread to report that after a long off season, I made it back onto the slopes yesterday to find that my heel side carves are absolute garbage. Just... steaming dog shit.

Really felt like I was making progress here last season at +18/-9. Going to play with +/+ next weekend.

On the plus side, I was railing my toe edge. With the weight stacked correctly I can put as much power into it as I want and it's fun as shit, but the heel edge is a fragile bitch that just pops right out unless I'm super gentle with it.


----------



## MrDavey2Shoes

What’s goin on with the heel sides @MCrides


----------



## Donutz

Yeah, I sympathize, as I've spent the last two seasons trying to get my heelsides working properly. But it might not be the same problem.


----------



## MCrides

MrDavey2Shoes said:


> What’s goin on with the heel sides @MCrides


Just can’t get it locked in to the point that I can put pressure back into the board the way I can on toe edge. So I end up just passively riding it unless the conditions are perfect.


----------



## MrDavey2Shoes

Idk if this is going to be helpful but a lot of people don’t engage their heelside edge until they’re already pointing down the mountain. I try to engage the heelside edge while riding across the fall line and begin the turn while my back is still facing down the mountain. That along with proper weighting will lock the edge in before reaching the bottom of the arc which will have my toes facing down the mountain. 

Basically I want my carve to be in the shape of a C not a rounded off L. No idea if this is where the problem is but it’s a common one.


----------



## Donutz

MrDavey2Shoes said:


> Idk if this is going to be helpful but a lot of people don’t engage their heelside edge until they’re already pointing down the mountain. I try to engage the heelside edge while riding across the fall line and begin the turn while my back is still facing down the mountain. That along with proper weighting will lock the edge in before reaching the bottom of the arc which will have my toes facing down the mountain.
> 
> Basically I want my carve to be in the shape of a C not a rounded off L. No idea if this is where the problem is but it’s a common one.


Yeah, I'm intending to use my 360 camera on a stick this week to check my form. But historically my toesides have been nice arcs that start with a transition to toeside edge well before I hit the fall line; but my heelsides have tended to be a braking maneuver into a heelside skid. No arc, no beauty, but lots of chatter, because that's generally where I've bled off most of my speed.

My attempts at fixing it have been:

little more lean on the highbacks
WAY more squat going into the heelside
NOT going into a braking maneuver.

That last one is basically an effort of will over my body's desire to slow down as soon as I see the slope. I've been able to correct it more quickly by practicing on moderate slopes that don't initiate the fear reflex. I've mostly conquered it, but like quitting smoking, I have to stay on top of it. Eventually I want my heelside and toeside carves to be completely symmetrical in all conditions.


----------



## DaveMcI

Donuts, try no lean on your high backs. It will give you more feel for your heel edge. Lift your toes, settle into your heels and keep the pressure there by keeping the back of your hips like you want to sit in a chair.


----------



## MrDavey2Shoes

I ride no forward lean, I think @Kijima even goes as far as removing high backs entirely.
(where you been dude?)

Other ways to bleed speed are by continuing the turn uphill slightly or a quick skid by pointing the nose uphill before continuing on to set your heel edge while still crossing the fall line. Obviously this sort of breaks up the motions we’ve been discussing but it’s better than eating it!

Lastly, ++ stance really does work. I wish I had done that earlier.


----------



## Scalpelman

What worked for me as recommended by kijima is to focus more on rotation of the trailing shoulder toward the nose during the middle of the turn. It forces you to continue to engage the nose.


----------



## MCrides

MrDavey2Shoes said:


> Idk if this is going to be helpful but a lot of people don’t engage their heelside edge until they’re already pointing down the mountain. I try to engage the heelside edge while riding across the fall line and begin the turn while my back is still facing down the mountain. That along with proper weighting will lock the edge in before reaching the bottom of the arc which will have my toes facing down the mountain.
> 
> Basically I want my carve to be in the shape of a C not a rounded off L. No idea if this is where the problem is but it’s a common one.


Totally get what you’re describing and agree it’s a super common problem, although I don’t think it’s what’s ailing me. Although I did notice that the less locked in a got, the less I was able to use the downhill edge the way you’re describing. Less centripetal force, I think.

What about getting in the edge earlier locks it in more?


----------



## MCrides

Don’t think I’m following the no forward lean/no high back logic here. If I’m getting low, my calves are going to be pushing forward and it seems like I’d want them to stay in contact with the high backs.


----------



## MrDavey2Shoes

@MCrides ultimately the earlier edge set is a symptom of proper weight transfer and timing but if you watch any of those guys on YouTube even and maybe especially Knapton, you’ll see what I’m talking about. The edge transition happens before the direction change. Think C not L for the shape of the trench you leave in the snow. 

As far as high backs it’s all preference but I think forward lean (in large doses at least) restricts my ability to move my weight around properly. To me it feels like my edge is moving before my body is where I want it.

As scalpelman said the trail arm thing is super important too!


----------



## MCrides

MrDavey2Shoes said:


> @MCrides ultimately the earlier edge set is a symptom of proper weight transfer and timing but if you watch any of those guys on YouTube even and maybe especially Knapton, you’ll see what I’m talking about. The edge transition happens before the direction change. Think C not L for the shape of the trench you leave in the snow.


I get what you’re talking about, I’m just having trouble figuring out why it would make a difference in terms of edge hold. I have the same heel edge issues regardless of how early I get on the edge.

Re: high backs, I’m sure Kijima will disagree but it seems like something that would vary a lot depending on anatomy, body proportions, flexibility, etc.


----------



## Kijima

Wooah its nice to see you guys in here working through your issues, usually it's just me muttering away to myself lol.
I will do my best to run through the posts and add anything not already covered.


----------



## Kijima

wrathfuldeity said:


> @Kijima Yesterday did a tad of adjustment of stance angles, to +18, 0. It was great! Had smoother engagement of both heel and toeside and much improved mogul riding. Noticed that if I got too transverse in the shoulders to the fall line I would have to do 45-90 degrees hop/flick to save myself...and had to make a slight adjustment to riding flats. Anyway love it, plan to stick with the +18, 0 for 1 more day and then give ++ a go.


🤟 🤟 🤟 You just increased your heel side upper body rotation by quite a bit Im sure.


----------



## Kijima

MrDavey2Shoes said:


> I found +24 +9 to be a nice compromise between ++ and the utility of duck/0


This has become my powder stance. FF 24/9, It's not too aggressive, offers enough heel side mobility for nice pow turns without making too much work out of toe turns.
With greater angles in pow I found it too much work squaring up my hips for toe turns, but on groomers I need more rotation so I run more angle.


----------



## ridethecliche

Kijima said:


> Wooah its nice to see you guys in here working through your issues, usually it's just me muttering away to myself lol.
> I will do my best to run through the posts and add anything not already covered.


We appreciate ya man!

This thread and this discussion have been pretty cool. I honestly think about it while riding all the time!


----------



## Kijima

MCrides said:


> Coming back to the thread to report that after a long off season, I made it back onto the slopes yesterday to find that my heel side carves are absolute garbage. Just... steaming dog shit.
> 
> Really felt like I was making progress here last season at +18/-9. Going to play with +/+ next weekend.
> 
> On the plus side, I was railing my toe edge. With the weight stacked correctly I can put as much power into it as I want and it's fun as shit, but the heel edge is a fragile bitch that just pops right out unless I'm super gentle with it.


Even at －９you are limiting your upper body rotation quite a bit so I wouldnt expect you to learn good heel turns with that stance. I would recommend trying something like FF 24/9 for a day, or even just a morning and work on heel turns only, forget toe turns all together until you work out your new muscle memories for heel turns. 

So really complete your toe turns, get that board running across the hill, even up hill. Overemphasize your upper body rotation as you finish the toe turn.
Commit to the edge change, it is not a direction change yet, just an edge change. You are now travelling across the hill on your heel edge and falling down hill from your board into a squat. By the time your butt hits the snow your board will be starting to curve around and it will soon be below you again. 
You have to commit to this dangerous yet brilliant feeling of being down hill of your board, at first it really is a leap of faith but you just have to take it.


----------



## Kijima

MrDavey2Shoes said:


> Idk if this is going to be helpful but a lot of people don’t engage their heelside edge until they’re already pointing down the mountain. I try to engage the heelside edge while riding across the fall line and begin the turn while my back is still facing down the mountain. That along with proper weighting will lock the edge in before reaching the bottom of the arc which will have my toes facing down the mountain.
> 
> Basically I want my carve to be in the shape of a C not a rounded off L. No idea if this is where the problem is but it’s a common one.


Once you are locked like that you are really fking locked hey, the hardest part is getting unlocked at the end of the turn.


----------



## Kijima

Donutz said:


> My attempts at fixing it have been:
> 
> little more lean on the highbacks
> overemphasize upper body rotation at the end of toe turns
> WAY more squat going into the heelside
> NOT going into a braking maneuver.


I added one for you


----------



## Snowdaddy

MCrides said:


> Totally get what you’re describing and agree it’s a super common problem, although I don’t think it’s what’s ailing me. Although I did notice that the less locked in a got, the less I was able to use the downhill edge the way you’re describing. Less centripetal force, I think.
> 
> What about getting in the edge earlier locks it in more?


You could try an earlier transition from toe side to heel side, and make sure your trajectory is aimed at the "toe side" side of the piste and then follow the path of the sidecut.

Like if you have a strong toe side carve, it's naturally going to bend the board a lot more because of the board tilt/angle. You will have ended the toe side turn quite perpendicular to the fall line. The As you go into the heel side turn you will be planning your turn back into the piste. The early part of the turn will be too sharp and you will never bend the board into that turn. Making a skid throughout the turn.

More S-turn shape on the toe side makes my heel side turns more C shaped.


----------



## Kijima

DaveMcI said:


> Donuts, try no lean on your high backs. It will give you more feel for your heel edge. Lift your toes, settle into your heels and keep the pressure there by keeping the back of your hips like you want to sit in a chair.


I agree with this, even though forward lean seems to aid heel turns that is only true to a rider who is NOT leaning into their turns with their whole body. If you follow my teachings you will be using your whole body as a lever and forward lean becomes something that you no longer need


----------



## Kijima

MCrides said:


> Totally get what you’re describing and agree it’s a super common problem, although I don’t think it’s what’s ailing me. Although I did notice that the less locked in a got, the less I was able to use the downhill edge the way you’re describing. Less centripetal force, I think.
> 
> What about getting in the edge earlier locks it in more?


Getting in earlier is super important.
Most people only have the middle of their turns, the start never happened, then they have the middle and lose the finish of the turn due to not being favourably stacked over the edge. Creating a place for the start of your turn to happen is an important thing, as you come across and up the hill you are creating a nice place for your turn and also controlling your speed at the same time.
The awkward thing about all of this is that nothing much happens when you first switch edges, the new turn is slow to start and requires a bit of patience from the rider. For a heel turn you use this time to squat heavily.
Soon enough the board will start to come around for you and at that moment you can begin the upper body rotation on a locked edge, before the forces of the turn take control.


----------



## Kijima

MCrides said:


> What about getting in the edge earlier locks it in more?


Basically getting into position before the forces of the turn become too great for you to overcome.


----------



## Kijima

MCrides said:


> I get what you’re talking about, I’m just having trouble figuring out why it would make a difference in terms of edge hold. I have the same heel edge issues regardless of how early I get on the edge.
> 
> Re: high backs, I’m sure Kijima will disagree but it seems like something that would vary a lot depending on anatomy, body proportions, flexibility, etc.


I don't disagree  
The amount of forward lean a rider needs decreases as they begin leaning in more and it reaches an anti climax when you can do heel turns with your butt 1cm off the ground, at that point any forward lean you have results in unnecessary board angle which causes massive decambering of the board. 
So for someone like me when can get my butt on the ground quite easily forward lean is bad, for regular Johnny forward lean is good, for you, forward lean will become less and less useful in a progressive fashion as you get better at heel turns so don't worry about it just yet, but let the concept exist in your mind that you will need less as you improve.


----------



## Kijima

When I get an opportunity I will make a new vid. 
How to do deep heel turns.
I just need somebody to hold a camera for me lol.


----------



## MrDavey2Shoes

Touched the snow with my lead hand on a heelside today, progress is happening! First couple of attempts were a disaster as I was too focused on body angle and moving low before I was deep enough into the turn. Basically I got distracted with the goal and sacrificed the process.

Once I realized that I tried to be patient with my movements and focused on really bringing that trailing arm into it. I think more forward angle on my back foot would definitely help but until conditions improve I’ll probably stay at +9. 

Probably only pulled it off twice, but now it’s just a matter of practice.

On another note, I figured out how to do those double arm bellyflop lay out turns they do on Toy313. They’re hilarious fun.


----------



## Kijima

MrDavey2Shoes said:


> Touched the snow with my lead hand on a heelside today, progress is happening! First couple of attempts were a disaster as I was too focused on body angle and moving low before I was deep enough into the turn. Basically I got distracted with the goal and sacrificed the process.
> 
> Once I realized that I tried to be patient with my movements and focused on really bringing that trailing arm into it. I think more forward angle on my back foot would definitely help but until conditions improve I’ll probably stay at +9.
> 
> Probably only pulled it off twice, but now it’s just a matter of practice.
> 
> On another note, I figured out how to do those double arm bellyflop lay out turns they do on Toy313. They’re hilarious fun.


Time to tape up your shit before you get holes in it


----------



## WigMar

Kijima said:


> Time to tape up your shit before you get holes in it


I've got holes in the seat of my bibs!


----------



## MCrides

Kijima said:


> The amount of forward lean a rider needs decreases as they begin leaning in more and it reaches an anti climax when you can do heel turns with your butt 1cm off the ground, at that point any forward lean you have results in unnecessary board angle which causes massive decambering of the board.


In my mind I want a high board angle, for two reasons. One, because the steeper the angle, the sharper the edge and the more hold it will provide. And two, because I also want the option to decamber the board by applying pressure with my legs, and the lower the board angle the less space there is for decambering.

Think about it this way: the whole reason toe side carves are easier to begin with is because it's easier to get a high board angle while keeping your weight stacked vertically over the edge. Those physics don't change when we get to heel side.


----------



## DaveMcI

Mcrides, I think by decreasing forward lean on high backs it gives you more range of board angles to use.


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## Kijima

MCrides said:


> In my mind I want a high board angle, for two reasons. One, because the steeper the angle, the sharper the edge and the more hold it will provide. And two, because I also want the option to decamber the board by applying pressure with my legs, and the lower the board angle the less space there is for decambering.
> 
> Think about it this way: the whole reason toe side carves are easier to begin with is because it's easier to get a high board angle while keeping your weight stacked vertically over the edge. Those physics don't change when we get to heel side.


I can understand that, and it is true while your body is vertical, but when your body is close to the snow you will find the other side of the coin.
Where you are trying to achieve lower board angles by means such as dorsiflexion and reducing forward lean to avoid a problem you have not encountered yet, where too high board angles force your edge to lose traction.

I hate to keep posting this same pic but just look at the angles at play here and you will see that at some point your desire for high board angles will become desire for low board angles due to angle of your body being so great.










Vid here 

__
http://instagr.am/p/CIZjoyyFQmd/


----------



## Kijima

A Hakuba local putting one of my pow boards to the test


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## MCrides

Kijima said:


> but when your body is close to the snow you will find the other side of the coin.


How does body lean change the way the edge of the board grips the snow?


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## MrDavey2Shoes

MCrides said:


> How does body lean change the way the edge of the board grips the snow?


It’s about where your body/balance points are in relation to the angle of your board. The board should follow body. That edge isn’t going to hold if your body is in the right place. 

Ironically it was this point specifically I used to disagree with Kijima. Something about the board being a trailer I think. So much of the board/edge behavior is dictated by parts of your body nowhere near the board!

Today I learned that the motion of your rear arm must be more than simply reaching across the body. That will change your position but that won’t move your body’s mass enough, you need to actually swoop. The lesson I learned is the movement to get to the position is as important as the position.

Today I saw a hard booter riding ++ but the carves were very different, still looked skidded and they were very short. L shaped. He had minimal upper body movement. Reminded me of skiing more than snowboarding.


----------



## BoardieK

MCrides said:


> Think about it this way: the whole reason toe side carves are easier to begin with is because it's easier to get a high board angle while keeping your weight stacked vertically over the edge. Those physics don't change when we get to heel side


Unless your hand/arse is taking some of the weight, which also creates drag and generally prevents the board decambering leading to a bigger radius turn. (not this video which is slow speed) 
I prefer not to touch the snow and just let the edge do its stuff and so I use quite a lot of forward lean on my rear highback (+30/+12). But in the end it's all down to personal preference and the style that you are trying to achieve.


----------



## MCrides

MrDavey2Shoes said:


> It’s about where your body/balance points are in relation to the angle of your board. The board should follow body. That edge isn’t going to hold if your body is in the right place.


Of course this is true, but I think it supports my understanding, not the opposite. The less your body is stacked vertically over your edge, the more board tilt you'll need to get the same edge hold. And, more board tilt lets you decamber the board further, which means more centrifugal force to balance the aggressive body lean.

More body lean requires more board tilt. It sounds like Kijima and you are saying the opposite though, unless I'm misreading.


----------



## ridethecliche

Center of gravity changes and lean angles change as you increase speed. Look at Motorcycles for ex. You turn very differently at slow vs high speeds. Totally different body /bike position.


----------



## MrDavey2Shoes

For me at least, forward lean on the binding creates too much board tilt too early. Restricting the movements I want to make with my body. If it works for you, that’s good. But in my experience, too much tilt too early results in lack of edge grip and a chattering. I think it tightens to turn too soon...or something.


----------



## MCrides

MrDavey2Shoes said:


> I think it tightens to turn too soon...or something.


Ohhhhhhh that totally makes sense to me. Like, you have to get your body in position to respond to it before tightening the radius.


----------



## Kijima

MCrides said:


> How does body lean change the way the edge of the board grips the snow?


If your legs are vertical then your board is going to be flat on the snow, if your legs are horizontal then your board is going to be tilted at a high angle as a result, you don't need to encourage your board to tilt more with forward lean because its already doing that as a result of your body angle.


----------



## Kijima

MCrides said:


> More body lean requires more board tilt. It sounds like Kijima and you are saying the opposite though, unless I'm misreading.


You say body lean requires board tilt, I say body lean produces board tilt.
It's a chicken/egg situation, the difference being you are thinking the board is controlling your body angle and I am thinking my body is controlling my board angle.
You are mentally allowing the board to be the leader, that if you can just create a high board angle you will be granted the ability to get a low body angle.
I know that my board does not grant me the ability to get a low body angle, rather it is forced to follow along, the high board angle is a byproduct of my body movements and not the other way around.

You are the boss, not your board.


----------



## Kijima

MrDavey2Shoes said:


> The lesson I learned is the movement to get to the position is as important as the position.


Exactly, they are one and the same, and every position is merely a progression to the next, constantly fluid, never static.
When you do the right dance your board does the right turn, every time.


----------



## MCrides

Kijima said:


> You say body lean requires board tilt, I say body lean produces board tilt.


I think both of those things are true and not contradictory. Of course body lean produces board tilt, but it's also possible to tilt the board without body lean. This is easier to do on toe side, which is why aggressive toe side carves are easier.


----------



## Kijima

MCrides said:


> I think both of those things are true and not contradictory. Of course body lean produces board tilt, but it's also possible to tilt the board without body lean. This is easier to do on toe side, which is why aggressive toe side carves are easier.


Im glad we can agree on that  
But exactly what you are describing, the board tilt without body tilt is bad news for heel turns because it leaves you with no weight inside the arc. No weight to counter balance yourself against the forces of the turn, akin to a moto GP rider not leaning in to his turn, he is sure to get flicked off the other side of the bike as the forces of the turn increase. 
A heel turn on a snowboard is exactly the same principal and that is why you can dangle your butt 1cm off the ground and not touch the snow when you perfectly match your body weight inside the arc against the forces of the turn. And you do that by tilting your body as low as possible.
Give it a try from my perspective and see how you go.


----------



## ridethecliche

I've been on a few boards when I was a new rider where the board was definitely the one taking me for a ride lol


----------



## Paxford

MrDavey2Shoes said:


> That edge isn’t going to hold if your body is in the right place.


@MrDavey2Shoes is this a typo? Think this is what you meant-

That edge is going to hold if your body is in the right place.


----------



## Scalpelman

The only time I like forward lean is when I’m attacking narrow lines on my freeride board. Then the edge to edge transfer speed rules the riding of the day. But those are more fast S turns and speed scrubbing. No layout carves. That’s when the forward lean becomes a hindrance. Laying out C’s and O’s.


----------



## DaveMcI

Scalpelman said:


> The only time I like forward lean is when I’m attacking narrow lines on my freeride board. Then the edge to edge transfer speed rules the riding of the day. But those are more fast S turns and speed scrubbing. No layout carves. That’s when the forward lean becomes a hindrance. Laying out C’s and O’s.


It just means when shit gets real you are not using your whole body to control your board. It's ok, most of us(you people) are in the same boat. Personally I dont mind if my boat sinks, I'm a good swimmer.


----------



## MrDavey2Shoes

Paxford said:


> @MrDavey2Shoes is this a typo? Think this is what you meant-
> 
> That edge is going to hold if your body is in the right place.


lol thank you for catching that


----------



## Snowdaddy

MrDavey2Shoes said:


> lol thank you for catching that


Or the edge isn't going to hold unless your body is in the right place. A slight difference.


----------



## MrDavey2Shoes

@Snowdaddy that was what I intended to type. It’s because I have 3 thumbs.


----------



## Paxford

Scalpelman said:


> The only time I like forward lean is when I’m attacking narrow lines on my freeride board. Then the edge to edge transfer speed rules the riding of the day. But those are more fast S turns and speed scrubbing. No layout carves. That’s when the forward lean becomes a hindrance. Laying out C’s and O’s.


So true. I never ride with forward lean, but the high back is there when I’m getting serious (which is rare). Carving mellow groomers only no need for high backs.


----------



## wrathfuldeity

Kijima said:


> This has become my powder stance. FF 24/9, It's not too aggressive, offers enough heel side mobility for nice pow turns without making too much work out of toe turns.
> With greater angles in pow I found it too much work squaring up my hips for toe turns, but on groomers I need more rotation so I run more angle.


@Kijima couple of ?'s Are you running different angles on groomed/packed vs the pow angles? Stance width, just slippers on the floor, at my 23" width duck trying the FF angles, my hips were doing crazy things and felt like a locked/limited range (not in a good way). Where as FF with width about 19-20" felt comfortable easy to move my hips around and with good range. So wondering if that is the case of going FF and significantly narrowing the stance with? Thanks! Going to try FF tomorrow woohoo!


----------



## Kijima

wrathfuldeity said:


> @Kijima couple of ?'s Are you running different angles on groomed/packed vs the pow angles? Stance width, just slippers on the floor, at my 23" width duck trying the FF angles, my hips were doing crazy things and felt like a locked/limited range (not in a good way). Where as FF with width about 19-20" felt comfortable easy to move my hips around and with good range. So wondering if that is the case of going FF and significantly narrowing the stance with? Thanks! Going to try FF tomorrow woohoo!


Yes I run less angle on my pow board now. FF 24 9 and my stance width is 60cm.
A narrow stance makes it difficult to squat down low for the heel turn, hard booters run narrow stance to induce decambering.
I use a wide stance and induce decambering with my knee in knee out method. 
Knapton uses a wide stance too which helps him squat. 

I think you should go as wide as you can whilst maintaining maximum upper body rotation, and don't forget to put effort into your front hip for toe turns


----------



## wrathfuldeity

Kijima said:


> Yes I run less angle on my pow board now. FF 24 9 and my stance width is 60cm.
> A narrow stance makes it difficult to squat down low for the heel turn, hard booters run narrow stance to induce decambering.
> I use a wide stance and induce decambering with my knee in knee out method.
> Knapton uses a wide stance too which helps him squat.
> 
> I think you should go as wide as you can whilst maintaining maximum upper body rotation, and don't forget to put effort into your front hip for toe turns


With a stance width of 60cm, what is your inseam...leg?


----------



## Kijima

wrathfuldeity said:


> With a stance width of 60cm, what is your inseam...leg?


80cm. So my stance width is 75% of my inseam.


----------



## WigMar

Gotta say I was loving the hula motion going into the soul arch today. It felt really solid stacking weight like that. I really try not to reach for the snow, but it's been coming closer and closer. Getting that soul arch laid over is going to be awesome when it comes. You can't really pet the dog when you've got a soul arch going.


----------



## WigMar

A note on carving conditions. I've been making good progress very early in the day when the cords are fresh. Then things get scraped down to the ice that is our poor base layer right now, and my progress goes out the window. I resort to bombing more and carving less. We're so low tide there's gravel in the groomers. 

Today I left my big resort when it got busy, and I hit a smaller local on the way home. It's got an excellent blue that has a different orientation to the sun, and it was still soft. So stoked to have some soft snow to play with. That local is about to get a lot more traffic from me. How hard can conditions get before you guys throw in the towel?


----------



## Paxford

@Kijima how much setback you are riding with FF and does your FF vary on setback? 

I ask because I’m getting very different results FF across boards in hardpack. The issue is my back foot, some boards I can tolerate some positive angle and not lose much pop and control, so it’s worth it for the flat carving gains. But others there’s just too much lost so I can’t put as much power in to turns on vert terrain ... and reentry feels weird. Holding and releasing via that back foot is really important to rip vert terrain. My body can’t shift fast enough, I’ve got to tweak feet/ankles along with body.

All my boards carve fine on level piste and FF really does make it easy to get lower heelside, but funny thing is my centered twin does best with FF from a pop jump vert ripping stability perspective. My more setback decks FF lose a lot more in those situations. Trying to figure it out. Maybe less tail along with putting my back foot big toe in a weaker position is too much. I’ve seen my buddies surfing do this flowy pump thing with heavy FF in the middle of the arc of a wave, but they can’t rip bottom turns or top turn like that, there’s no control, they skip out. They have to plant that back foot to do that with any real power. Maybe not negative, but very close to zero, not with a lot of forward angle backfoot.


----------



## Kijima

WigMar said:


> A note on carving conditions. I've been making good progress very early in the day when the cords are fresh. Then things get scraped down to the ice that is our poor base layer right now, and my progress goes out the window. I resort to bombing more and carving less. We're so low tide there's gravel in the groomers.
> 
> Today I left my big resort when it got busy, and I hit a smaller local on the way home. It's got an excellent blue that has a different orientation to the sun, and it was still soft. So stoked to have some soft snow to play with. That local is about to get a lot more traffic from me. How hard can conditions get before you guys throw in the towel?


I dislocated my shoulder Dec 29 due to pushing too hard when conditions were not ideal, you gotta respect the conditions. . .


----------



## Kijima

WigMar said:


> Gotta say I was loving the hula motion going into the soul arch today. It felt really solid stacking weight like that. I really try not to reach for the snow, but it's been coming closer and closer. Getting that soul arch laid over is going to be awesome when it comes. You can't really pet the dog when you've got a soul arch going.


It feels pretty good huh, my toe turns are getting better for me too, I am focusing on achieving maximum arch at the middle of the turn and keeping my hands tucked in rather than touching the snow.
Already I have surpassed my performance last season where I was stuck with my bum in the air, one thing that is helping me is staying low throughout the heel turn.
A toe turn is for rising up and a heel turn is for dropping back down, there is no up in a heel turn.


----------



## Kijima

Paxford said:


> @Kijima how much setback you are riding with FF and does your FF vary on setback?
> 
> I ask because I’m getting very different results FF across boards in hardpack. The issue is my back foot, some boards I can tolerate some positive angle and not lose much pop and control, so it’s worth it for the flat carving gains. But others there’s just too much lost so I can’t put as much power in to turns on vert terrain ... and reentry feels weird. Holding and releasing via that back foot is really important to rip vert terrain. My body can’t shift fast enough, I’ve got to tweak feet/ankles along with body.
> 
> All my boards carve fine on level piste and FF really does make it easy to get lower heelside, but funny thing is my centered twin does best with FF from a pop jump vert ripping stability perspective. My more setback decks FF lose a lot more in those situations. Trying to figure it out. Maybe less tail along with putting my back foot big toe in a weaker position is too much. I’ve seen my buddies surfing do this flowy pump thing with heavy FF in the middle of the arc of a wave, but they can’t rip bottom turns or top turn like that, there’s no control, they skip out. They have to plant that back foot to do that with any real power. Maybe not negative, but very close to zero, not with a lot of forward angle backfoot.


That is a tricky one man, I'm thinking that perhaps you aren't shifting your weight rearward enough, if the rear toe is loaded you get that lack of bottom turn power thing going on, try squeezing the board forward a bit and let the weight flow past your rear toe to your heel. If you practise at home, FF stance, you should be able to stand there with zero weight on your front foot, and you will notice the line of force goes down through your heel not your toe.


----------



## MrDavey2Shoes

@Paxford do the boards giving you trouble have significant taper? I find my tapered deck doesn’t hold on as well when carving on steeper terrain. Try only going to +9 on the rear, so far I find it gives up very little to riding at 0.


----------



## Kijima

In other news I ordered a gopro on monday, from the official gopro website. It asked me which country I was from, Japan, and charged me in Japanese Yen. Then after more than 48 hours I get an email saying my product has shipped from Singapore and that I am responsible for import duties and taxes. WTF 
Now this is going to cost me more than retail price, I never would have went through with the sale if I knew they didn't have stock in Japan, I would have just bought it from a reseller who does have stock in Japan and who has paid the import fees etc saving me time and money.


----------



## Kijima

MrDavey2Shoes said:


> @Paxford do the boards giving you trouble have significant taper? I find my tapered deck doesn’t hold on as well when carving on steeper terrain. Try only going to +9 on the rear, so far I find it gives up very little to riding at 0.


Good point, and to further answer I never run setback or taper. I am always centre of my edge.


----------



## lifeisgold

Kijima said:


> In other news I ordered a gopro on monday, from the official gopro website. It asked me which country I was from, Japan, and charged me in Japanese Yen. Then after more than 48 hours I get an email saying my product has shipped from Singapore and that I am responsible for import duties and taxes. WTF
> Now this is going to cost me more than retail price, I never would have went through with the sale if I knew they didn't have stock in Japan, I would have just bought it from a reseller who does have stock in Japan and who has paid the import fees etc saving me time and money.


I am pretty sure you can just refuse to receive and they will send it back to gopro in Singapore. That is if they realize to charge you, when I lived abroad (not japan) it was hit or miss process


----------



## Kijima

lifeisgold said:


> I am pretty sure you can just refuse to receive and they will send it back to gopro in Singapore. That is if they realize to charge you, when I lived abroad (not japan) it was hit or miss process


The fineprint which was only made available to me 48 hours after I paid states that if I refuse to accept it they will deduct the shipping cost and import costs from my refund, and trying to contact tech support is impossible.
Gopro official is nothing more than a second rate drop shipper, and its coming via UPS, now those guys never forget to charge import fees, it's actually where they make most of their money, fingers crossed I guess.


----------



## MrDavey2Shoes

That’s a rotten hand my dude!

doing some thinking today before I hit the mountain later. Sometimes my heelside will chatter due to over tightening the radius on steeper terrain. (to clarify im talking steeper blues not blacks). On the one hand the answer could be open the radius of my turn more. However I’m really working toward matching the shape of my toe carves. I’m thinking my issue could be this:
In motor racing you look through the turn or maybe even down to the next turn, this guides you through space but also creates the illusion of moving slower since you’ve created more time between where you are and where you’re going.
Problem here is it’s hard to look into your next turn while still in the middle of your current.
All this to say that the more turns I link together the earlier (in terms of point across piste) I need to engage the next turn in order to keep from flying off into narnia and breaking my face. Problem is as that point of no return keeps coming closer and closer but I can’t “look through” the turn to my next edge transition. Going to try and work thay out today. What I’ve come up with so far is as I’m crossing the fall line on my heelside, pick the next engagement point for my next heelside as I cross back on my toes as I’m passing it on the current heelside (look down hill to the next heel engagement before I engage my toeside)

Ultimately I think I’m just craving wider groomers and In an ideal world I’d just have access to wider groomers, but I’m hiding on the smaller mountains to stay away from Covid, time to adapt!


----------



## Paxford

Kijima said:


> That is a tricky one man, I'm thinking that perhaps you aren't shifting your weight rearward enough,
> 
> First few runs surfing the pipe yesterday before I posted this I was too forward, then I squeezed weight rear like you are thinking, and could then turn off the top better but nowhere near where it should be ... every turn I’m thinking this is how I used to surf water the first few years before I got control. I think of it as 3 points of a triangle from the groin to two feet, that triangle has to be centered over board to enter and exit these vert maneuvers with power and control. Also to setup for the next move. One of the benefits of FF is dropping that rear knee, but I don’t need FF to drop my rear knee, I do it fine at -6. I think I’ve gone too far forward on backfoot. I’m a bit duck naturally, so I’m fighting anatomy a bit as well. It seems my back knee folds almost too easily with FF and then I’ve lost that triangle at inopportune times on vert.
> 
> if the rear toe is loaded you get that lack of bottom turn power thing going on, try squeezing the board forward a bit and let the weight flow past your rear toe to your heel. If you practise at home, FF stance, you should be able to stand there with zero weight on your front foot, and you will notice the line of force goes down through your heel not your toe.
> 
> Line of force through the heel on vert is the problem, in surfing you get to move your feet so line of force is heel when it should be, like when carving down the line in the arc midway up a wave, and move line of force through big toe when it should be, like when entering and exiting a top side slash or a drawn out toe side bottom turn, or launching airs and re-entering.
> 
> IMO, If bindings could move negative backfoot when needed this wouldn’t be a downside for FF for me.
> 
> .


----------



## Paxford

Kijima said:


> That is a tricky one man, I'm thinking that perhaps you aren't shifting your weight rearward enough,
> 
> First few runs surfing the pipe yesterday before I posted this I was too forward, then I squeezed weight rear like you are thinking, and could then turn off the top better but nowhere near where it should be ... every turn I’m thinking this is how I used to surf water the first few years before I got control. I think of it as 3 points of a triangle from the groin to two feet, that triangle has to be centered over board to enter and exit these vert maneuvers with power and control. Also to setup for the next move. One of the benefits of FF is dropping that rear knee, but I don’t need FF to drop my rear knee, I do it fine at -6. I think I’ve gone too far forward on backfoot. I’m a bit duck naturally, so I’m fighting anatomy a bit as well. It seems my back knee folds almost too easily with FF and then I’ve lost that triangle at inopportune times on vert.
> 
> if the rear toe is loaded you get that lack of bottom turn power thing going on, try squeezing the board forward a bit and let the weight flow past your rear toe to your heel. If you practise at home, FF stance, you should be able to stand there with zero weight on your front foot, and you will notice the line of force goes down through your heel not your toe.
> 
> Line of force through the heel on vert is the problem, in surfing you get to move your feet so line of force is heel when it should be, like when carving down the line in the arc midway up a wave, and move line of force through big toe when it should be, like when entering and exiting a top side slash or a drawn out toe side bottom turn, or launching airs and re-entering.
> 
> IMO, If bindings could move negative backfoot when needed this wouldn’t be a downside for FF for me.
> 
> .


----------



## Scalpelman

Kijima said:


> 80cm. So my stance width is 75% of my inseam.


Is that standard way of calculating? I run stance at 23” inseam 29”. Maybe I’ll narrow it at bit.


----------



## MCrides

Scalpelman said:


> Is that standard way of calculating? I run stance at 23” inseam 29”. Maybe I’ll narrow it at bit.


This is going to be highly variable depending on body ratios, flexibility/joint mobility, and personal preference. If you've ever done any weightlifting, you'll see that different guys achieve deep squats with a whole variety of different stance widths depending on their proportions, and on a snowboard there's also rotational considerations to keep in mind.

23" with 29" inseam does seem on the wider side of the spectrum though.


----------



## ridethecliche

@Kijima which gopro? Sorry for the shenanigans... My gf just got me an 8 for christmas. Was thinking of mayyybe seeing if I could put in some money and swap it up for a 9 but I don't really know if it's going to be worth it for the stuff I'm doing. The biggest thing for me was the replaceable lens and probably the bigger battery. Not sure if it's really worth going through the hassle for snowboarding and biking though.

@Scalpelman how tall are you? Are you using your pant inseam or your real measured inseam?



WigMar said:


> Gotta say I was loving the hula motion going into the soul arch today. It felt really solid stacking weight like that. I really try not to reach for the snow, but it's been coming closer and closer. Getting that soul arch laid over is going to be awesome when it comes. You can't really pet the dog when you've got a soul arch going.


I think about that a lot too. I need to get out to the local hill for open so I can have some nice conditions to carve in. I'll have to break in the ember on a day like that to see how it rails. Otherwise, I'm just going to get bucked around to oblivion.


----------



## Paxford

@Kijima, I made a mess of my reply to your post, trying to reply inline. I put your comments in italics so they can be differentiated-

_That is a tricky one man, I'm thinking that perhaps you aren't shifting your weight rearward enough,_ 

First few runs surfing the pipe yesterday before I posted this I was too forward, then I squeezed weight rear like you are thinking, and could then turn off the top better but nowhere near where it should be ... every turn I’m thinking this is how I used to surf water the first few years before I got control. I think of it as 3 points of a triangle from the groin to two feet, that triangle has to be centered over board to enter and exit these vert maneuvers with power and control. Also to setup for the next move. One of the benefits of FF is dropping that rear knee, but I don’t need FF to drop my rear knee, I do it fine at -6. I think I’ve gone too far forward on backfoot. I’m a bit duck naturally, so I’m fighting anatomy a bit as well. It seems my back knee folds almost too easily with FF and then I’ve lost that triangle at inopportune times on vert.

_if the rear toe is loaded you get that lack of bottom turn power thing going on, try squeezing the board forward a bit and let the weight flow past your rear toe to your heel. If you practise at home, FF stance, you should be able to stand there with zero weight on your front foot, and you will notice the line of force goes down through your heel not your toe._

Line of force through the heel on vert is the problem, in surfing you get to move your feet so line of force is heel when it should be, like when carving down the line in the arc midway up a wave, and move line of force through big toe when it should be, like when entering and exiting a top side slash or a drawn out toe side bottom turn, or launching airs and re-entering.

IMO, If bindings could move negative backfoot when needed this wouldn’t be a downside for FF for me.


----------



## Snowdaddy

MCrides said:


> This is going to be highly variable depending on body ratios, flexibility/joint mobility, and personal preference. If you've ever done any weightlifting, you'll see that different guys achieve deep squats with a whole variety of different stance widths depending on their proportions, and on a snowboard there's also rotational considerations to keep in mind.
> 
> 23" with 29" inseam does seem on the wider side of the spectrum though.


And squats are different with snowboard boots and strapped in than when barefoot. And different when on edge than when flat basing.


----------



## Kijima

MrDavey2Shoes said:


> That’s a rotten hand my dude!
> 
> doing some thinking today before I hit the mountain later. Sometimes my heelside will chatter due to over tightening the radius on steeper terrain. (to clarify im talking steeper blues not blacks). On the one hand the answer could be open the radius of my turn more. However I’m really working toward matching the shape of my toe carves. I’m thinking my issue could be this:
> In motor racing you look through the turn or maybe even down to the next turn, this guides you through space but also creates the illusion of moving slower since you’ve created more time between where you are and where you’re going.
> Problem here is it’s hard to look into your next turn while still in the middle of your current.
> All this to say that the more turns I link together the earlier (in terms of point across piste) I need to engage the next turn in order to keep from flying off into narnia and breaking my face. Problem is as that point of no return keeps coming closer and closer but I can’t “look through” the turn to my next edge transition. Going to try and work thay out today. What I’ve come up with so far is as I’m crossing the fall line on my heelside, pick the next engagement point for my next heelside as I cross back on my toes as I’m passing it on the current heelside (look down hill to the next heel engagement before I engage my toeside)
> 
> Ultimately I think I’m just craving wider groomers and In an ideal world I’d just have access to wider groomers, but I’m hiding on the smaller mountains to stay away from Covid, time to adapt!


Personally I am always looking into the turn I am engaged in, even at the end of a heel turn, I am still looking further into the heel turn, the flip to toe turn happens and then my head will start to come around. I guess the timing is something I no longer think about.
Make your heel turn your primary turn and match your toe turn to it, but in reality if your board has the same radius on both sides it will automatically match its own turn shapes when you perfect your body movements. I have achieved symmetry of my turn shapes without trying very hard at it, symmetry comes as a byproduct of well constructed turns so just focus on that IMO


----------



## Kijima

Scalpelman said:


> Is that standard way of calculating? I run stance at 23” inseam 29”. Maybe I’ll narrow it at bit.


No idea lol, I wouldn't recommend narrowing your stance unless you want to get that hardbooter style going on


----------



## Kijima

MCrides said:


> This is going to be highly variable depending on body ratios, flexibility/joint mobility, and personal preference. If you've ever done any weightlifting, you'll see that different guys achieve deep squats with a whole variety of different stance widths depending on their proportions, and on a snowboard there's also rotational considerations to keep in mind.
> 
> 23" with 29" inseam does seem on the wider side of the spectrum though.


I agree man. That's why I like to focus on concepts rather than hard rules. 
All you need to be able to do is achieve the necessary upper body rotation and necessary squat, no doubt it will come via different stance angles and widths for a lot of us


----------



## Kijima

ridethecliche said:


> @Kijima which gopro? Sorry for the shenanigans... My gf just got me an 8 for christmas. Was thinking of mayyybe seeing if I could put in some money and swap it up for a 9 but I don't really know if it's going to be worth it for the stuff I'm doing. The biggest thing for me was the replaceable lens and probably the bigger battery. Not sure if it's really worth going through the hassle for snowboarding and biking though.
> 
> @Scalpelman how tall are you? Are you using your pant inseam or your real measured inseam?
> 
> 
> 
> I think about that a lot too. I need to get out to the local hill for open so I can have some nice conditions to carve in. I'll have to break in the ember on a day like that to see how it rails. Otherwise, I'm just going to get bucked around to oblivion.


I went for the 8 as 9 was full of features I don't really need, and I only plan on filming 2 or 3 runs in the morning so battery life etc is not a consideration.


----------



## Kijima

Paxford said:


> @Kijima, I made a mess of my reply to your post, trying to reply inline. I put your comments in italics so they can be differentiated-
> 
> _That is a tricky one man, I'm thinking that perhaps you aren't shifting your weight rearward enough,_
> 
> First few runs surfing the pipe yesterday before I posted this I was too forward, then I squeezed weight rear like you are thinking, and could then turn off the top better but nowhere near where it should be ... every turn I’m thinking this is how I used to surf water the first few years before I got control. I think of it as 3 points of a triangle from the groin to two feet, that triangle has to be centered over board to enter and exit these vert maneuvers with power and control. Also to setup for the next move. One of the benefits of FF is dropping that rear knee, but I don’t need FF to drop my rear knee, I do it fine at -6. I think I’ve gone too far forward on backfoot. I’m a bit duck naturally, so I’m fighting anatomy a bit as well. It seems my back knee folds almost too easily with FF and then I’ve lost that triangle at inopportune times on vert.
> 
> _if the rear toe is loaded you get that lack of bottom turn power thing going on, try squeezing the board forward a bit and let the weight flow past your rear toe to your heel. If you practise at home, FF stance, you should be able to stand there with zero weight on your front foot, and you will notice the line of force goes down through your heel not your toe._
> 
> Line of force through the heel on vert is the problem, in surfing you get to move your feet so line of force is heel when it should be, like when carving down the line in the arc midway up a wave, and move line of force through big toe when it should be, like when entering and exiting a top side slash or a drawn out toe side bottom turn, or launching airs and re-entering.
> 
> IMO, If bindings could move negative backfoot when needed this wouldn’t be a downside for FF for me.


You are going outside my area of expertise with the vert carving 
If you can achieve your upper body rotation at -6 then you should stay at -6. Dial in that rear angle by where you like your rear knee in a heel turn and you will be automating one aspect of your heel turn which is a good thing.


----------



## Kijima

Snowdaddy said:


> And squats are different with snowboard boots and strapped in than when barefoot. And different when on edge than when flat basing.


They are also extremely different with different stance angles, weighting the board in a different way as we squat down.
FF stance send the riders weight to the rear automatically in a squat which is automation of technique by means of stance angle.


----------



## Snowdaddy

Kijima said:


> They are also extremely different with different stance angles, weighting the board in a different way as we squat down.
> FF stance send the riders weight to the rear automatically in a squat which is automation of technique by means of stance angle.


I agree about the weight shifting fore to aft depending on angles. What I was aiming at was more the thing about how we keep our center of mass or how our force vector goes into the board. Like how on edge we can actually squat without folding over at the waist in a toe turn. Simply because we tilt the board instead for using our ankle joints.


----------



## Rip154

Paxford said:


> @Kijima, I made a mess of my reply to your post, trying to reply inline. I put your comments in italics so they can be differentiated-
> 
> _That is a tricky one man, I'm thinking that perhaps you aren't shifting your weight rearward enough,_
> 
> First few runs surfing the pipe yesterday before I posted this I was too forward, then I squeezed weight rear like you are thinking, and could then turn off the top better but nowhere near where it should be ... every turn I’m thinking this is how I used to surf water the first few years before I got control. I think of it as 3 points of a triangle from the groin to two feet, that triangle has to be centered over board to enter and exit these vert maneuvers with power and control. Also to setup for the next move. One of the benefits of FF is dropping that rear knee, but I don’t need FF to drop my rear knee, I do it fine at -6. I think I’ve gone too far forward on backfoot. I’m a bit duck naturally, so I’m fighting anatomy a bit as well. It seems my back knee folds almost too easily with FF and then I’ve lost that triangle at inopportune times on vert.
> 
> _if the rear toe is loaded you get that lack of bottom turn power thing going on, try squeezing the board forward a bit and let the weight flow past your rear toe to your heel. If you practise at home, FF stance, you should be able to stand there with zero weight on your front foot, and you will notice the line of force goes down through your heel not your toe._
> 
> Line of force through the heel on vert is the problem, in surfing you get to move your feet so line of force is heel when it should be, like when carving down the line in the arc midway up a wave, and move line of force through big toe when it should be, like when entering and exiting a top side slash or a drawn out toe side bottom turn, or launching airs and re-entering.
> 
> IMO, If bindings could move negative backfoot when needed this wouldn’t be a downside for FF for me.


Think it's more a combination of speed and conditions vs stiffness/camber/sidecut on the board. On some you need to engage the top turn earlier to have enough power to follow through. If you have a really stiff board, you might want to gather some speed from the other wall and get a steeper angle now and then. The middle rocker/dual camber boards are kinda nice because you have some of the same rocker as surfboards, but cambered tips that hold, so it's easier to push them around at lower speeds, but they still don't lose grip.


----------



## Kijima

Rip154 said:


> Think it's more a combination of speed and conditions vs stiffness/camber/sidecut on the board. On some you need to engage the top turn earlier to have enough power to follow through. If you have a really stiff board, you might want to gather some speed from the other wall and get a steeper angle now and then. The middle rocker/dual camber boards are kinda nice because you have some of the same rocker as surfboards, but cambered tips that hold, so it's easier to push them around at lower speeds, but they still don't lose grip.


My boards are camber but are designed to flex between the feet, so you get the traction of camber and the ability to flex the board by opening and closing your knees. It's the best of both worlds for carving


----------



## Rip154

Kijima said:


> My boards are camber but are designed to flex between the feet, so you get the traction of camber and the ability to flex the board by opening and closing your knees. It's the best of both worlds for carving


Plus they look awesome! Will have to try some if I get a trip to that area.


----------



## Kijima

Rip154 said:


> Plus they look awesome! Will have to try some if I get a trip to that area.


Thanks man. I will be sending some decks to Wigmar shortly so if you are in the USA hit him up for a demo


----------



## Paxford

This has been such a fun experiment. I’ve stepped on snow with my boards setup in ways where I feared I would certainly crash. And I did, but not nearly as much, or as hard, as I feared. And I learned so much. What a great way to break the mold and improve. Thank you Kijima, you are an innovator, and also thank you to everyone open to this conversation about a topic near and
dear to my heart.


----------



## Scalpelman

MCrides said:


> This is going to be highly variable depending on body ratios, flexibility/joint mobility, and personal preference. If you've ever done any weightlifting, you'll see that different guys achieve deep squats with a whole variety of different stance widths depending on their proportions, and on a snowboard there's also rotational considerations to keep in mind.
> 
> 23" with 29" inseam does seem on the wider side of the spectrum though.


I picked my stance width by my squat width. Maybe I’ll just roll with it.


----------



## Rip154

Scalpelman said:


> I picked my stance width by my squat width. Maybe I’ll just roll with it.


Unless you get knee pain, it's just pref, but you will notice very fast if it's too wide or narrow.


----------



## Kijima

Paxford said:


> This has been such a fun experiment. I’ve stepped on snow with my boards setup in ways where I feared I would certainly crash. And I did, but not nearly as much, or as hard, as I feared. And I learned so much. What a great way to break the mold and improve. Thank you Kijima, you are an innovator, and also thank you to everyone open to this conversation about a topic near and
> dear to my heart.


Thank you so much for the kind words mate. 
I have a lot of passion for this, and being able to share it with peeps like all of you, who are open to testing crazy ideas and come back to this thread with your feedback makes it even more fun.


----------



## Kijima

My gopro has landed, and I did not have to pay import duties and tax so in the end it worked out ok. 
I will do my best to produce some instructional heel turn vids over the next few weeks.


----------



## Kijima

This morning was my daughters preschool recital, and part of the performance was about snowboards because in October I had all the kids out to my workshop so they could see how snowboards are made. 
Anyway they made their own boards from cardboard boxes and creatively used tissue boxes for bindings, but check the stance angles lol. FF all the way, and thats my daughter on the left


----------



## Scalpelman

Love the tiara!! [emoji23][emoji23]


----------



## MrDavey2Shoes

I like the wood grain top sheet, I wonder where she has seen that???

Overcooked a heelside today and overshot the groomed portion of the trail. Almost got my toeside set and was soooo close to making it out but I ate it. Got away with nothing more than bruised ego...Right under the main lift lol.

Otherwise I focused on moving Up in my toesides and down in my heels. Felt good!


----------



## Kijima

MrDavey2Shoes said:


> .Right under the main lift lol.


----------



## MCrides

Think I was a little harsh on myself in my last comment. out yesterday and put down some really solid heel side carves.
The two things I was focusing on were getting low as early as possible in the turn—before edge change, before knee drive, really the very first thing you do to begin the turn—and getting my back knee working as well as my front, which isn’t something I’ve ever messed around with before. Haven’t really come up with a mental model of how to use the back knee yet, but there’s definitely something to it, even in a duck stance.


----------



## Paxford

Drop-knee is a technique in longboard surfing where you drop that rear knee to weight the tail, which lifts the front of the big log you are riding, then you set the edge and carve a turn on a really big board. 

But the board doesn’t need to be big, you can do the same to get low and place weight in the right spot on a snowboard.


----------



## Kijima

MCrides said:


> Think I was a little harsh on myself in my last comment. out yesterday and put down some really solid heel side carves.
> The two things I was focusing on were getting low as early as possible in the turn—before edge change, before knee drive, really the very first thing you do to begin the turn—and getting my back knee working as well as my front, which isn’t something I’ve ever messed around with before. Haven’t really come up with a mental model of how to use the back knee yet, but there’s definitely something to it, even in a duck stance.


There is definitely something about bringing the back knee in, it has a huge influence over your personal style. I actually saw knapton doing a much better heel turn than he was doing last season, but it still looked awkward and I think its because of his back knee sticking out limiting his upper body rotation. 

You should spend a morning playing with rear binding angles and rear knee driving until you find your sweet spot.


----------



## t21

Kijima said:


> There is definitely something about bringing the back knee in, it has a huge influence over your personal style. I actually saw knapton doing a much better heel turn than he was doing last season, but it still looked awkward and I think its because of his back knee sticking out limiting his upper body rotation.
> 
> You should spend a morning playing with rear binding angles and rear knee driving until you find your sweet spot.


Ryan also do a lot of nose and tail rolls on his carving and 360's and i believe that is why his in a duck stance because he gets his strength from that by lifting his legs ang swinging it around whichever way he wants to and lands it smoothly and be ready for the next turn. just my .02 cents


----------



## Kijima

Paxford said:


> Drop-knee is a technique in longboard surfing where you drop that rear knee to weight the tail, which lifts the front of the big log you are riding, then you set the edge and carve a turn on a really big board.
> 
> But the board doesn’t need to be big, you can do the same to get low and place weight in the right spot on a snowboard.


When you drop a knee you shift your weight to that direction.
If you start a heel turn with a bent front knee and finish it with a straight front knee you have correctly weighted the edge throughout the turn. 
Our legs make a triangle as we stand on a board, all we need is to shorten one side of the triangle to shift our weight


----------



## Kijima

t21 said:


> Ryan also do a lot of nose and tail rolls on his carving and 360's and i believe that is why his in a duck stance because he gets his strength from that by lifting his legs ang swinging it around whichever way he wants to and lands it smoothly and be ready for the next turn. just my .02 cents


It's true.


----------



## Kijima

t21 said:


> Ryan also do a lot of nose and tail rolls on his carving and 360's and i believe that is why his in a duck stance because he gets his strength from that by lifting his legs ang swinging it around whichever way he wants to and lands it smoothly and be ready for the next turn. just my .02 cents


This is the one I was referring to. 
What I notice is lack of hip rotation, and his upper body is flat rather than vertical which means he has to put weight on his forearm rather than balance himself against the forces of the turn. 
It's very different to how I do a heel turn with my leading hand touching but not bearing weight and upper body vertical so I can balance my weight against the forces of the turn. 
Stance angles are what creates these two polar opposites of the same thing.


----------



## Paxford

IMO, eurocarve is for show, not flow, when you use hand or forearm to support yourself. Balance the triangle over the board, let your hand barely kiss the snow, not to prop you up in a carve, unless you are going for the money shot of course.


----------



## t21

Kijima said:


> This is the one I was referring to.
> What I notice is lack of hip rotation, and his upper body is flat rather than vertical which means he has to put weight on his forearm rather than balance himself against the forces of the turn.
> It's very different to how I do a heel turn with my leading hand touching but not bearing weight and upper body vertical so I can balance my weight against the forces of the turn.
> Stance angles are what creates these two polar opposites of the same thing.
> 
> View attachment 156224
> 
> View attachment 156228


Nice shot Kijima, now i want to see you do a front side nose roll 180 and then a backside 360 spin to your heel edge lol! I do have to say that ground tricks can be done on FF angles cuz i watch some Japanese vids were they do a lot of it and most of them are FF.


----------



## Kijima

t21 said:


> Nice shot Kijima, now i want to see you do a front side nose roll 180 and then a backside 360 spin to your heel edge lol! I do have to say that ground tricks can be done on FF angles cuz i watch some Japanese vids were they do a lot of it and most of them are FF.


Haha I can't do that stuff like Ryan can, he is a far better snowboarder than me, I am just attracted to a different style of carving. 
The style I like focuses on a heel turn whilst Ryans style focuses on a toe turn. I believe there is room for both 
Japanese love ground tricks, some do nothing but ground tricks with 0 0 stance and their jackets unzipped all day long lol. Japanese chicks dig it.


----------



## Kijima

This is who I modeled my heel turn off, and I am trying to bring aspects of Ryans toe turns into my own style, but not the elbows on the ground, Im not a fan of that.


----------



## MCrides

Kijima said:


> There is definitely something about bringing the back knee in, it has a huge influence over your personal style. I actually saw knapton doing a much better heel turn than he was doing last season, but it still looked awkward and I think its because of his back knee sticking out limiting his upper body rotation.
> 
> You should spend a morning playing with rear binding angles and rear knee driving until you find your sweet spot.


Yeah, back knee in gave some power or fluidity or something as I initiated heel edge turns, but I was also playing with back knee _out_ as I reached the wash-out point. I think with a duck stance it gives you a little more weight and pressure over the rear contact point. I've used it sometimes as a hip alignment cue when riding a T-bar, but haven't messed around with it during turns until now.

Meant to try +/+ but the screwdriver stations were put away for COVID, I guess. Next time.


----------



## MrDavey2Shoes

That video was A+

Watching it made me realize I’m staying in my heelside for too long and drawing them too far horizontal to the fall line. Probably would’ve prevent Saturday’s “mishap” 😂


----------



## MCrides

Kijima said:


> This is who I modeled my heel turn off, and I am trying to bring aspects of Ryans toe turns into my own style, but not the elbows on the ground, Im not a fan of that.


This guy's obviously legit, but I don't think I could replicate his technique. His front knee is almost locked completely straight from start to finish!


----------



## wrathfuldeity

Tried FF +24/+9, had to widen my stance to 21"...but wasn't feeling it. Compared to a few days earlier which was at +18/0 at 23". The +24/+9 was too much heelside bias and not enough toeside. Kept getting locked in heelside and could not smoothly transition to toeside. I'm sure, everything needs more work. This morning set up 3 boards for +18/0 at 23" and perhaps go up tomorrow and try it on all three boards.


----------



## Kijima

MCrides said:


> Yeah, back knee in gave some power or fluidity or something as I initiated heel edge turns, but I was also playing with back knee _out_ as I reached the wash-out point. I think with a duck stance it gives you a little more weight and pressure over the rear contact point. I've used it sometimes as a hip alignment cue when riding a T-bar, but haven't messed around with it during turns until now.
> 
> Meant to try +/+ but the screwdriver stations were put away for COVID, I guess. Next time.


Duck stance certainly is an automatic hip alignment cure, I teach noobs with FF stance to put their rear hand in their rear pocket and that keeps them aligned as they unload from lifts and ride one footed.


----------



## Kijima

MrDavey2Shoes said:


> That video was A+
> 
> Watching it made me realize I’m staying in my heelside for too long and drawing them too far horizontal to the fall line. Probably would’ve prevent Saturday’s “mishap” 😂


Most people don't hold them long enough so don't hate on yourself for doing that. It's a stepping stone to heel turn proficiency. Sometimes when I am lazy I get stuck on a locked heel edge and have to ride up hill to a stop. 
There is a sweet spot for edge transition, and it also plays a large role in creating symmetry in your turn shapes.


----------



## Kijima

MCrides said:


> This guy's obviously legit, but I don't think I could replicate his technique. His front knee is almost locked completely straight from start to finish!


It's a teenage girl lol.


----------



## Kijima

wrathfuldeity said:


> Tried FF +24/+9, had to widen my stance to 21"...but wasn't feeling it. Compared to a few days earlier which was at +18/0 at 23". The +24/+9 was too much heelside bias and not enough toeside. Kept getting locked in heelside and could not smoothly transition to toeside. I'm sure, everything needs more work. This morning set up 3 boards for +18/0 at 23" and perhaps go up tomorrow and try it on all three boards.


Focus on creating your toe turn by pushing your front hip toe side the relaxing for heel side.


----------



## MCrides

Kijima said:


> It's a teenage girl lol.


Ha! Wish I had teenage girl size feet sometimes.


----------



## t21

The ladies and gents on those vids are fun to watch and wishing i could do some of those tricks but....it's only a wish


----------



## t21

Kijima said:


> Most people don't hold them long enough so don't hate on yourself for doing that. It's a stepping stone to heel turn proficiency. Sometimes when I am lazy I get stuck on a locked heel edge and have to ride up hill to a stop.
> There is a sweet spot for edge transition, and it also plays a large role in creating symmetry in your turn shapes.


i had my heelside carve pretty good and i do hold them longer, but i lost my edge when i tried to transition to my toe side by lifting my front heel up to early before my body was positioned to transition to toe side and down i go sliding on my butt and laughing my ass off!


----------



## WigMar

I've been following this crew of riders. They've got a higher speed approach than the snow surfers. I like the style.


----------



## Paxford

@WigMar if not already, check out toyfilms on IG.


----------



## Scalpelman

WigMar said:


> I've been following this crew of riders. They've got a higher speed approach than the snow surfers. I like the style.


That’s the ticket! The teenage girl rips too! Spent another day on the diamond blade Sunday slaying groomers. Today was a low angle day railing the Niche Pyre 155. Headed out tomorrow again on the Fullbag-day 4 of 7. Both rail really well but I have the pyre set up at 18/0, the fullbag 24/6. Different boards with the pyre being more of an S camber, but boy that 18/0 stance lets me rail it.


----------



## MrDavey2Shoes

I used to like Toyfilms but lately they’ve been doing too much flat land and not enough turning. I’ve been watching Gelanding on Instagram. Super smooth riding.


----------



## Paxford

MrDavey2Shoes said:


> I used to like Toyfilms but lately they’ve been doing too much flat land and not enough turning. I’ve been watching Gelanding on Instagram. Super smooth riding.


YES! Stoked to see Gelanding ripping the sides. That’s my style.


----------



## Kijima

t21 said:


> i had my heelside carve pretty good and i do hold them longer, but i lost my edge when i tried to transition to my toe side by lifting my front heel up to early before my body was positioned to transition to toe side and down i go sliding on my butt and laughing my ass off!


Don't lift your feet, stay low and rock your whole body over to the toe edge then stretch yourself out as the toe turn begins


----------



## Kijima

MrDavey2Shoes said:


> I used to like Toyfilms but lately they’ve been doing too much flat land and not enough turning. I’ve been watching Gelanding on Instagram. Super smooth riding.


Too much squat in toe turns too


----------



## t21

Kijima said:


> Don't lift your feet, stay low and rock your whole body over to the to edge then stretch yourself out as the toe turn begins


That is what i normally do but for some reason i my brain says"ok you need to go toe side now"but my body just delayed the action and my front foot release the edge. It was late on the day so i guess i was tired already though i was trying for another nice carve to finish the day.


----------



## Kijima

Paxford said:


> IMO, eurocarve is for show, not flow, when you use hand or forearm to support yourself. Balance the triangle over the board, let your hand barely kiss the snow, not to prop you up in a carve, unless you are going for the money shot of course.


I totally agree.when I first started this I was bearing too much weight but now I try to estimate the forces of the turn based on speed and pitch and then try to match that with how much weight I throw inside the arc. When I get it wrong I touch my bum on the snow and the nose of the board skips around, when I get it right I hover 1cm off the surface of the snow without touching and that puts a big smile on my face


----------



## Kijima

t21 said:


> That is what i normally do but for some reason i my brain says"ok you need to go toe side now"but my body just delayed the action and my front foot release the edge. It was late on the day so i guess i was tired already though i was trying for another nice carve to finish the day.


You will never make amazing progress late in the day, I would even say the first 2 hours of the day are your window for experimental riding, while conditions are best and the crowds are still making their way to the mountain, you get your work done then dial it back a bit and enjoy the rest of the day.


----------



## robotfood99

WigMar said:


> I've been following this crew of riders. They've got a higher speed approach than the snow surfers. I like the style.


Haha, rode with them a ittle bit last season. Their motto translates loosely, "May you find your enligh-turn-ment." They mostly ride Pheonix Pyonchang, site of the last winter Olympics. The thing with that crew/ resort is, the same style of riding is f'ing everywhere, like Agent Smith in The Matrix. Some super-Knapton level skills here and there, too.


----------



## robotfood99

Just drooling at these runs... both human and nature.

@Kijima, stay safe from all that pow. There is no justice you guys get so much while the rest of the world can only watch on youtube.


----------



## MCrides

Kijima said:


> You will never make amazing progress late in the day, I would even say the first 2 hours of the day are your window for experimental riding, while conditions are best and the crowds are still making their way to the mountain, you get your work done then dial it back a bit and enjoy the rest of the day.


So true. Make first chair if you want to practice!


----------



## MrDavey2Shoes

I always get frustrated as the day goes on and then my wife will be like “dude all the corduroy is gone and it’s lumpy” and I’ll be like “wtf don’t call me dude, bro.”

anyway, yea morning for experimenting afternoons for cruising and having a good time!


----------



## Paxford

Kijima said:


> I totally agree.when I first started this I was bearing too much weight but now I try to estimate the forces of the turn based on speed and pitch and then try to match that with how much weight I throw inside the arc. When I get it wrong I touch my bum on the snow and the nose of the board skips around, when I get it right I hover 1cm off the surface of the snow without touching and that puts a big smile on my face


For sure. When you’re perfectly balanced against the force, dragging a finger or two, or not, your prerogative, thats the sweet spot. I don’t get there much heelside, my bum can’t take the risk of overshooting the sweet spot on hardpack. Water or soft snow, it’s on.


----------



## Kijima

robotfood99 said:


> . The thing with that crew/ resort is, the same style of riding is f'ing everywhere


It's the same here too, anyone who can carve does it in the exact same style, quality heel turns but hunched over toe turns. 
Also they only make turns in one size, they cannot keep their style in a larger turn size so it becomes this monotonous rhythm without consideration for the terrain features. 
It's really important that the style you have as a rider works in more than one certain set of conditions.


----------



## Kijima

Paxford said:


> For sure. When you’re perfectly balanced against the force, dragging a finger or two, or not, your prerogative, thats the sweet spot. I don’t get there much heelside, my bum can’t take the risk of overshooting the sweet spot on hardpack. Water or soft snow, it’s on.


Ass padding and tape bro, get into it


----------



## Kijima

So today the sun finally came out, no powder for once lol and groomers were perfect so I got a really good chance to work on some of these new concepts.
I focused on rear knee driving and continual squatting throughout my heel turns and it worked really good.
The continual squat with FF stance equates to continual rearward weighting, so no more thinking about weighting my heel turns anymore, I have automated that job and it works perfectly from steep terrain right out into the flats. The knee drive compliments it perfectly.
I used to require a certain amount of speed or pitch do get my carve on but today it was there no matter how fast I was going.
Hula hoop is working very well and I am achieving a full arch in my toe turns unlike last season. Things are looking good to take some footage on friday up at Shiga Kogen.


----------



## WigMar

Kijima said:


> It's the same here too, anyone who can carve does it in the exact same style, quality heel turns but hunched over toe turns.
> Also they only make turns in one size, they cannot keep their style in a larger turn size so it becomes this monotonous rhythm without consideration for the terrain features.
> It's really important that the style you have as a rider works in more than one certain set of conditions.


I've been thinking about their turn size and shape too. Their riding reminds me of the ski slalom racers who hit the gates at very regular intervals, but they don't have gates to dictate their turn, just their sidecut. 

Glad you finally got some sunshine. I hope some of that powder is heading my way!


----------



## Kijima

WigMar said:


> I've been thinking about their turn size and shape too. Their riding reminds me of the ski slalom racers who hit the gates at very regular intervals, but they don't have gates to dictate their turn, just their sidecut.
> 
> Glad you finally got some sunshine. I hope some of that powder is heading my way!


100% on the slalom skier comment. 
Because the forces of the turn are quite low you don't get much hang time availability and end up rushing everything as a result.


----------



## MrDavey2Shoes

Thats pretty funny, you've got a powder problem and the rest of us are starving for snow!


I remember early in this thread you posted a video, not sure if it was the hula hoop or the dolphin dance but there was something about "squeezing it out" at the end of the heel motion. It almost feels like using your back foot to push the board forward (nose - tail not heel - toe) while you move around behind it. The motion fell into place yesterday as a result of working on earlier exits from my heelside carve.

Here are my thoughts, and you know all this already.

Wow, for me it is the missing piece to the Hula Hoop motion. It allows the board to unweight and just tip over onto the toe edge while you're still low so all you have to do is rise up and push your hips toeside as you rise toward your nose and bang, back into position for a heel turn. When done this way the board locks in very tight allowing you to move freely above the board without much concern about the edge hold. When you get it right its right, however I rushed it a few times and that overtightens to toeside way to soon and I went over the bars. The video of that girl you posted shows the "Squeeze" clearly. Watching her front leg really helped me.

I think I'm starting to get my heels pretty low, compared to where I started. I think I'm making progress as far as butt above snow and can drag that lead hand more frequently but my upper body is still pretty vertical. It almost feels like I'm reaching for the snow in order to get lower instead of getting lower and being able to touch the snow. Subtle difference and I think you'll understand what I'm trying to say. I need to keep working this motion and dialing in the timing and the rest will come eventually.

Man, this is hard to type about, I've edited this over and over and I think I've gotten close enough to what I want to say.


----------



## Kijima

MrDavey2Shoes said:


> Thats pretty funny, you've got a powder problem and the rest of us are starving for snow!
> 
> 
> I remember early in this thread you posted a video, not sure if it was the hula hoop or the dolphin dance but there was something about "squeezing it out" at the end of the heel motion. It almost feels like using your back foot to push the board forward (nose - tail not heel - toe) while you move around behind it. The motion fell into place yesterday as a result of working on earlier exits from my heelside carve.
> 
> Here are my thoughts, and you know all this already.
> 
> Wow, for me it is the missing piece to the Hula Hoop motion. It allows the board to unweight and just tip over onto the toe edge while you're still low so all you have to do is rise up and push your hips toeside as you rise toward your nose and bang, back into position for a heel turn. When done this way the board locks in very tight allowing you to move freely above the board without much concern about the edge hold. When you get it right its right, however I rushed it a few times and that overtightens to toeside way to soon and I went over the bars. The video of that girl you posted shows the "Squeeze" clearly. Watching her front leg really helped me.
> 
> I think I'm starting to get my heels pretty low, compared to where I started. I think I'm making progress as far as butt above snow and can drag that lead hand more frequently but my upper body is still pretty vertical. It almost feels like I'm reaching for the snow in order to get lower instead of getting lower and being able to touch the snow. Subtle difference and I think you'll understand what I'm trying to say. I need to keep working this motion and dialing in the timing and the rest will come eventually.
> 
> Man, this is hard to type about, I've edited this over and over and I think I've gotten close enough to what I want to say.


Dude I read that almost with a tear in my carving eye lol.
Yesterday I played with being vertical to start my heel turns VS staying super low like knapton does and I actually prefer to start high. It feels better and works well with this style of heel turn.
So it really is an up down motion with the start of the heel turn being the peak and the start of the toe turn being the trough.

When you start your toe turn you need to be on edge but not inside the arc just yet. Keep your weight over the board for a second or two until you feel it start to come around, then allow yourself to fall inside the arc. I call this moment Michael Jackson because it feels like this


----------



## Kijima

MrDavey2Shoes said:


> I think I'm making progress as far as butt above snow and can drag that lead hand more frequently but my upper body is still pretty vertical. It almost feels like I'm reaching for the snow in order to get lower instead of getting lower and being able to touch the snow.


It sounds like you have a slight mismatch in your body weight vs the forces of the turn. Try doing the same thing on a steeper run and you might find the sweet spot comes to you rather than you searching for it.


----------



## snow & pow adventures

Hey! I read some of the posts here, a lot of information and I'm starting to lose what's what.

I've been trying to get lower on my heelside in the same way as you're doing. I'm just calling it japan style carving, as most of the jp riders I watch ride like that. It's sth like watching European SITS school 
I really dig that style but had a lot of trouble getting lower.
I concluded, my upper body is not facing forward enough. I tend to open and leave my "upper body behind. That's one error I'm making, but I most trouble I have is with the timing of all the movements when entering heelside turn. When I'm trying to go low, close to the board edge - I don't know how to straighten my legs to stay low on the ground, I fall (went down too much?.
And when I'm thinking about my butt touching the ground, my butt goes low, but I lean forward with my upper body (the instinct to keep the balance? nothing else comes to my mind why I do that).

Any tips on how should I approach heelside to turn from low stance when ending toeside turn?

Here's me trying my best from the start of the season. I really like some of the toesides turns how they look. I also see, that entering heelside, I only go down, not charging/leaning forward. Like I was thinking that I will get low enough to the ground to touch my lead hand if I only duck more.
Any tips on how to jump to the next level? How should I start my turn? Should I leave my hips stady and only turn my upper body and open? Or should I work with my hips too getting low on heelside?





This is so far the best video I found showing how to get to what I want to do.





From what I see, this rider is starting to move his upper body and shoulder way before the turn (I'm doing it at the peak of each turn, so maybe I'm too late?). I'm used to keeping my upper and lower body in the same plane, maybe that's why I cannot go that low?
Anyway, I'm planning to do drills he shows here, as I think they will lead me eventually to that awesome heelside position. Any thoughts on that?
And if I'll start this shoulder movement and get low, when should I start to push my knees and try to straighten them up to create a force that will hold me above the ground with my ass? 

As MrDavey wrote...so hard to express what you want to say in my own language...so I hope you understand my questions and concerns .


----------



## Kijima

snow & pow adventures said:


> Hey! I read some of the posts here, a lot of information and I'm starting to lose what's what.
> 
> I've been trying to get lower on my heelside in the same way as you're doing. I'm just calling it japan style carving, as most of the jp riders I watch ride like that. It's sth like watching European SITS school
> I really dig that style but had a lot of trouble getting lower.
> I concluded, my upper body is not facing forward enough. I tend to open and leave my "upper body behind. That's one error I'm making, but I most trouble I have is with the timing of all the movements when entering heelside turn. When I'm trying to go low, close to the board edge - I don't know how to straighten my legs to stay low on the ground, I fall (went down too much?.
> And when I'm thinking about my butt touching the ground, my butt goes low, but I lean forward with my upper body (the instinct to keep the balance? nothing else comes to my mind why I do that).
> 
> Any tips on how should I approach heelside to turn from low stance when ending toeside turn?
> 
> Here's me trying my best from the start of the season. I really like some of the toesides turns how they look. I also see, that entering heelside, I only go down, not charging/leaning forward. Like I was thinking that I will get low enough to the ground to touch my lead hand if I only duck more.
> Any tips on how to jump to the next level? How should I start my turn? Should I leave my hips stady and only turn my upper body and open? Or should I work with my hips too getting low on heelside?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is so far the best video I found showing how to get to what I want to do.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From what I see, this rider is starting to move his upper body and shoulder way before the turn (I'm doing it at the peak of each turn, so maybe I'm too late?). I'm used to keeping my upper and lower body in the same plane, maybe that's why I cannot go that low?
> Anyway, I'm planning to do drills he shows here, as I think they will lead me eventually to that awesome heelside position. Any thoughts on that?
> And if I'll start this shoulder movement and get low, when should I start to push my knees and try to straighten them up to create a force that will hold me above the ground with my ass?
> 
> As MrDavey wrote...so hard to express what you want to say in my own language...so I hope you understand my questions and concerns .


Just quickly what stance angles are you running?


----------



## snow & pow adventures

Kijima said:


> Just quickly what stance angles are you running?


On this vid +18/-6 - my standard freeride/carving stance.

I've tried +30/+12 for the first time this year, and dig it, but I would love to learn doing that with 18/-6 as I do more freeride than riding on piste.

way easier to engage both turns
I was thinking I'm getting lover, until I saw video and my friend who recorded told me, I'm not (so after changing the settings it just seemed to me that i was lower)
I found this angles very stable when charging hard on moguls, little jumps - loved it
I had no idea what to do exactly with my back knee.It's lose, and doesn't work while Im in turn.
harder , much harder to do speedcheck in powder, but maybe that's because that was my first tries

Here's clip when I started riding 30/12 (except part I'm riding below line, it's 18/-6) maybe you can judge how changing angles changed my ride. I'm too biased,watched myself to many times already and can't be objective anymore  One difference is that I was riding Nitro Pantera above, and here is Dropout, which isn't as good carver as Pantera





edit: sorry for so much content, but I don't have access to my riding RAW files for a while:/


----------



## Kijima

Ok, firstly congratulations on your english ability, its high level 🤟 🤟 🤟

Now there is a lot to look at here but first I will talk about the instructional video you posted.
You are right, that is Japan style 100%, its not a great style in my opinion because I really dislike that toe turn where the rider is heavily squatted. I am working very hard to NOT look like that in my toe turns. Also the rider doesnt get very low on heel turns because the upper body rotation is poor at the end of the toe turn. They need to really over emphasize the upper body rotation at the end of the toe turn if they want to get lower in heel turns.

Now before we talk about your turns, you need to understand that you are trying to learn something new, and that your stance is making it hard to physically achieve, so I strongly recommend you change your back foot angle to a positive angle while you are trying to learn it.



1
This is your best toe turn style, hips forward in a nice arch, its a strong position and looks cool









2
This is your worst toe turn style, bent over at the waist and squatting










3
This is you beginning a heel turn, you have not yet changed edges but your upper body is already well into its heel friendly position. You need to be rotated heavily the opposite way at this point, then as you cross over to the heel edge your butt will fall forward as you squat and you will be able to get much lower in the turn with much better edge hold too.









4
This is your static upper body throughout the heel turn, the rear arm never moves, the upper body never rotates more and therefore the turn is not a complete one. You should try swinging that rear arm around continually as the turn progresses.
That static rear arm haunts nearly every duck footed rider I see.









Also there is a lot of pointing down hill in your riding, to become a good carver you need to be pointing across the hill most of the time but your resort looks a little dangerous to be trying that with so many people so be careful


----------



## snow & pow adventures

Kijima said:


> Ok, firstly congratulations on your english ability, its high level 🤟 🤟 🤟


Thanks for the kind words!



Kijima said:


> Now there is a lot to look at here but first I will talk about the instructional video you posted.
> You are right, that is Japan style 100%, its not a great style in my opinion because I really dislike that toe turn where the rider is heavily squatted. I am working very hard to NOT look like that in my toe turns.


Could you post img of proper in your opinion deep toeside turn? Now, thinking about it, I see that I bent my waist on purpose to be able to touch the ground (so it wasn't a natural position, but forced). I always judged my position in terms of straight line with the board.









I think in my mind that's what I'm trying emulate









I see how we're roated with hips differently.
What's the exemplary position that you have in mind? Something like on photo above or completly different? (example photo would be great)





Kijima said:


> Also the rider doesnt get very low on heel turns because the upper body rotation is poor at the end of the toe turn. They need to really over emphasize the upper body rotation at the end of the toe turn if they want to get lower in heel turns.


Yeah I noticed that, but It seemed ok as it's fluid movement, up and down, and looked composed  Anyway I understand that's a different variation, let's leave it then.




Kijima said:


> Now before we talk about your turns, you need to understand that you are trying to learn something new, and that your stance is making it hard to physically achieve, so I strongly recommend you change your back foot angle to a positive angle while you are trying to learn it.


Roger,I'll use 30/12 to practice this.




Kijima said:


> 1
> This is your best toe turn style, hips forward in a nice arch, its a strong position and looks cool
> View attachment 156309


Ok I see, that's my "no effort" toeside, without charging.
I prefer this kind of toeturn (aggressive) - or this little bent in waist isn't good?












Kijima said:


> 2
> This is your worst toe turn style, bent over at the waist and squatting


<answer above>



Kijima said:


> 3
> This is you beginning a heel turn, you have not yet changed edges but your upper body is already well into its heel friendly position. You need to be rotated heavily the opposite way at this point, then as you cross over to the heel edge your butt will fall forward as you squat and you will be able to get much lower in the turn with much better edge hold too.
> View attachment 156311


Ok got it.I can even visualise it 



Kijima said:


> 4
> This is your static upper body throughout the heel turn, the rear arm never moves, the upper body never rotates more and therefore the turn is not a complete one. You should try swinging that rear arm around continually as the turn progresses.
> That static rear arm haunts nearly every duck footed rider I see.
> Th
> View attachment 156312


Ok got it, you right, I'm locking myself to early as I understand? I should continue to open into left side auntil I touch the ground?



Kijima said:


> Also there is a lot of pointing down hill in your riding, to become a good carver you need to be pointing across the hill most of the time but your resort looks a little dangerous to be trying that with so many people so be careful


Fair point. I'm so used to ride downdoing just smal edge changes and I worked a bit last season, to make those turns longer and start to change edge when I'm riding across the slope.
I always look out before deeper turns 

---
Thanks for that! If you have anything other to add please share. I'm going to bed so I'll have time to think about your tips.


----------



## Kijima

A little bend in your waist is ok, and when conditions are bumpy you need it, but for pure carving style I like the arched body position, it just looks and feels good.
I spent all last season trying to do toe turns but they looked the same as yours, everyone is doing them like that but there's something not quite right about it and I was never happy with it. 
I could never stretch myself out all the way to an arch but this season I have it worked out, hopefully tomorrow my buddy will take some footage for me.


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## Snowdaddy

snow & pow adventures said:


> I think in my mind that's what I'm trying emulate


If I'm not mistaken, that's Nicholas Wolken. If you watch his films you will notice that he does a lot of bending at the waist in his turns. But the direction for the angle is forward, not perpendicular to the board towards the snow.

Wolken is my favorite rider.


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## MrDavey2Shoes

@Kijima absolutely right, I’m out of time somewhere. I’ll hunt it down over my next few days out. I hope! I related to that MJ picture, it does feel like everything is in your toes.

@Snowdaddy
Wolken is one of my favorite riders too but he’s almost unattainable. You fall down riding like Wolken and something is breaking for sure. That being said if I ever find myself on a Korua on a groomer as nice as the ones in the YFT videos I’m going for it.


----------



## Kijima

Remove squat is beautiful IMO


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## MrDavey2Shoes

keystone surf club is another interesting Instagram I just followed today. Kinda japanese, kinda what we're talking about here, kinda just weird. I dig it.


----------



## WigMar

Keystone is my home mountain. I'm always looking for that crew, and I haven't found them yet. It would be so cool to ride like this in a group. I feel like carving is a lonely sport.

I did find a rider surfing a Moss the other day. He had pretty decent style for riding duck. I tried to talk him into trying ++ angles. He was interested in my Surfari and we almost traded boards, but didn't want to mess with the bindings. It was nice to snow surf with someone for a run or two.


----------



## Scalpelman

Kijima said:


> Remove squat is beautiful IMO
> View attachment 156346


Yes! but can’t stay opened up like that for long. That’s my next step in progression. Linking that kind of turn is a bit challenging. Just spent the past 6 days lapping resorts and hammering out my high speed carving. Split time between the fullbag DB and the nitro pantera. My turns are dialed in. Can touch the snow with ease on low angle runouts but my constant need for speed limits it on the steeps. So for me, in my progression, the next step is fine tuning the transitions.

We need a reopening of the hula hoop discussion.


----------



## Scalpelman

WigMar said:


> Keystone is my home mountain. I'm always looking for that crew, and I haven't found them yet. It would be so cool to ride like this in a group. I feel like carving is a lonely sport.
> 
> I did find a rider surfing a Moss the other day. He had pretty decent style for riding duck. I tried to talk him into trying ++ angles. He was interested in my Surfari and we almost traded boards, but didn't want to mess with the bindings. It was nice to snow surf with someone for a run or two.


Agreed! Not a lot of flow carvers out there. I happened upon a guy taking a sweet surfy line at Stowe today. Couldn’t tell the board he was riding but it looked like a cafe racer. Anyway it was nice to follow his playful line for a while.


----------



## MrDavey2Shoes

There’s a couple guys who ride Bromley that like to turn. I’ve counted...3?


----------



## Kijima

Well my first gopro session was a flop, all I have is footage of the lovely blue sky   
It's a shame because conditions were rad, luckily I took some pics of my buddy Johnny getting down and dirty on his OnsenTamago 152.


----------



## Kijima

.


----------



## Kijima

Scalpelman said:


> Yes! but can’t stay opened up like that for long.


 If you do it for 1 second that's all anyone will remember  



Scalpelman said:


> We need a reopening of the hula hoop discussion.


Yes. I need that myself as its time for me to do some work on my toe turns.


----------



## MrDavey2Shoes

@Kijima what is that shape designed for? I love a pointy nose with a blunt, squares tail. Definitely my favoraite shape and That is what keeps drawing me to a Cafe Racer, and I guess what drew me to my Sims.


----------



## Kijima

MrDavey2Shoes said:


> @Kijima what is that shape designed for? I love a pointy nose with a blunt, squares tail. Definitely my favoraite shape and That is what keeps drawing me to a Cafe Racer, and I guess what drew me to my Sims.


Taiyaki is my do it all shape. It handles unlimited dry powder and up to 50cm heavier powder plus it carves like a beast.
It's my daily driver in 30cm waist width. 
The 30cm is sold out now, only 26 and 28cm left.


----------



## MrDavey2Shoes

@Kijima those are some wide waists, what would you put someone with a US size 8 on?


----------



## Kijima

MrDavey2Shoes said:


> @Kijima those are some wide waists, what would you put someone with a US size 8 on?


US 8 is 26cm. For a regular snowboarder I match boot size to waist width and people are always happy. For deep carving I recommend boot size plus 2cm so that would be 28cm for you and it would give you the same clearance as me with my 28cm boot and 30cm waist width.


----------



## MrDavey2Shoes

That’s what I was thinking as well. Do you have any shots of the camber profile? Can’t wait to see these things in action.

It’s Interesting but I think heelside clearances are an overlooked spec in the traditional snowboard design. It’s becoming more often that I’ve felt chatter in either the heel of my boot or the heel cup of the binding as it makes contact with the snow.


----------



## Kijima

MrDavey2Shoes said:


> That’s what I was thinking as well. Do you have any shots of the camber profile? Can’t wait to see these things in action.
> 
> It’s Interesting but I think heelside clearances are an overlooked spec in the traditional snowboard design. It’s becoming more often that I’ve felt chatter in either the heel of my boot or the heel cup of the binding as it makes contact with the snow.


The camber is very mild and stops just inside the contact points.


----------



## PistePioneer

Has anyone here settled on preferred binding angles + stance width or are you guys always tinkering?
This discussion, along with Korua's and Nidecker's video series, has inspired me to give double positive angles a try.
I have spent a lot of time riding +15/-6 but I plan on jumping straight into +27/+6 and than gradually bringing that back foot up to +27/+15 (Taken from Nicholas Wolken). 
I would be interested to hear what angles you guys prefer to ride and would appreciate some suggestions on what I should try out.


----------



## MCrides

PistePioneer said:


> Has anyone here settled on preferred binding angles + stance width or are you guys always tinkering?
> This discussion, along with Korua's and Nidecker's video series, has inspired me to give double positive angles a try.
> I have spent a lot of time riding +15/-6 but I plan on jumping straight into +27/+6 and than gradually bringing that back foot up to +27/+15 (Taken from Nicholas Wolken).
> I would be interested to hear what angles you guys prefer to ride and would appreciate some suggestions on what I should try out.


I tried +/+ today for the first time, 24/9. Wanted to ease into it more but I get rear toe drag pretty consistently at less than 9.

Mixed feelings but I can definitely see why it cleans up heel side carves.


----------



## MrDavey2Shoes

I like 24/9 I feel it is superior for turning and doesn’t give up much versatility


----------



## PistePioneer

How does taking off and landing jumps feel with 24/9 ? I found that with even just 18/0, I felt off-balance going off of jumps. I suspect that jumps would have felt better if I had given myself more time to adjust.


----------



## Kijima

PistePioneer said:


> Has anyone here settled on preferred binding angles + stance width or are you guys always tinkering?
> This discussion, along with Korua's and Nidecker's video series, has inspired me to give double positive angles a try.
> I have spent a lot of time riding +15/-6 but I plan on jumping straight into +27/+6 and than gradually bringing that back foot up to +27/+15 (Taken from Nicholas Wolken).
> I would be interested to hear what angles you guys prefer to ride and would appreciate some suggestions on what I should try out.


There are two considerations when it comes to stance angles. Upper body rotation and boot clearance.
If you have a nice wide board your main consideration should be that you can achieve the necessary upper body rotation.
If your board is not wide enough you should focus on boot clearance which will result in you running greater angles.

Your example of changing from -6 to +6 does nothing for boot clearance but a lot for upper body rotation.
I always recommend people new to FF to set the bindings up flush on the heel side with all the extra board width on the toe side and to have a separation of angles of around 12 to 18 degrees.


----------



## wrathfuldeity

I tried +24,+9 but it was too heel side biased. So went +21,0 and it felt right and could do both toe and heel side well. But I don't have the rear knee nor the hulu hoop thing figured out. However, methinks need a wider, longer and less sidecut because I kept blowing out and couldn't hold the edges.


----------



## Kijima

PistePioneer said:


> How does taking off and landing jumps feel with 24/9 ? I found that with even just 18/0, I felt off-balance going off of jumps. I suspect that jumps would have felt better if I had given myself more time to adjust.


When you change angles you need to create new muscle memories, so time is essential. Usually pushing your front hip toe side in toe turns is an effective way to rebalance yourself


----------



## Kijima

Check this vid out


----------



## PistePioneer

Kijima said:


> There are two considerations when it comes to stance angles. Upper body rotation and boot clearance.
> If you have a nice wide board your main consideration should be that you can achieve the necessary upper body rotation.
> If your board is not wide enough you should focus on boot clearance which will result in you running greater angles.
> 
> Your example of changing from -6 to +6 does nothing for boot clearance but a lot for upper body rotation.
> I always recommend people new to FF to set the bindings up flush on the heel side with all the extra board width on the toe side and to have a separation of angles of around 12 to 18 degrees.


Now you've got me doing heelside turns in my living room lol. Just from doing that, I can tell that going from -6 to 6 adds a lot of range of motion to my upper body rotation.
I'm currently in a size 9 so I'm OK with board clearance.


----------



## PistePioneer

Kijima said:


> Check this vid out


Great video! 

So, when doing heel-side turns, you're not actually weighting your arms at all right? As I understand it, you're just dragging your hands and the turn combined with your momentum is keeping you upright in that position.


----------



## Kijima

PistePioneer said:


> Now you've got me doing heelside turns in my living room lol. Just from doing that, I can tell that going from -6 to 6 adds a lot of range of motion to my upper body rotation.
> I'm currently in a size 9 so I'm OK with board clearance.


Haha join the club man. I learn all my body positions in my living room or on my longboard in summer time. It's actually hard to change your riding style by simply riding, muscle memory is very powerful and so are turn forces, your chances of overcoming both of these phenomenon are slim if you don't practice at home. 
Understand a concept, build some muscle memories, then try and put it to the snow.


----------



## Kijima

PistePioneer said:


> Great video!
> 
> So, when doing heel-side turns, you're not actually weighting your arms at all right? As I understand it, you're just dragging your hands and the turn combined with your momentum is keeping you upright in that position.


Exactly, when you are learning all of this you will weight both your hands and your butt but as you get better it becomes a balance thing where you estimate the forces of the turn and lean in just enough to hover 1cm off the ground. The front hand always goes down in a heel turn but it's not for stability, more about achieving the correct upper body rotation and posture.


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## Kijima

Fwiw my leading shoulder dislocates very easily but doing heel turns has never caused a dislocation so the forces are quite low, but it will destroy your gloves quickly so tape up. Taped mitts are best.


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## Kijima




----------



## MCrides

The biggest "con" I felt besides things that I'd get used to like what @Kijima is saying about hip alignment, was that my toe edge carves were significantly less powerful in terms of actively decambering the board. Not sure if I'm willing to give that up for a better heel edge.

I think a more subdued +/+ stance, or even a neutral back foot might be the sweet spot for me, but that will take a wider board.


----------



## Kijima

MCrides said:


> The biggest "con" I felt besides things that I'd get used to like what @Kijima is saying about hip alignment, was that my toe edge carves were significantly less powerful in terms of actively decambering the board. Not sure if I'm willing to give that up for a better heel edge.
> 
> I think a more subdued +/+ stance, or even a neutral back foot might be the sweet spot for me, but that will take a wider board.


The sweet spot for me is boot size +2cm = waist width. 
In my case 28cm boot +2cm = 30cm waist width.


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## NT.Thunder

Kijima said:


> The sweet spot for me is boot size +2cm = waist width.
> In my case 28cm boot +2cm = 30cm waist width.


Is that US10.5?
Do you have a link to your boards for sale online?


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## Kijima

NT.Thunder said:


> Is that US10.5?
> Do you have a link to your boards for sale online?


28cm is US10.
I dont have a website built yet unfortunately, because I subcontract the base grinding to a professional, and I only just received the bulk of my boards last friday I have not been able to photograph everything properly. It has been a slight disaster from that perspective but we are selling boards via instagram/paypal for international customers at a reduced rate of JP¥70,000 plus shipping. One shipped to Switzerland yesterday for JP¥85,000.

I have Onsen Tamago 152 twin boards in waist widths 23,24,25,26,27,28 and 30cm









Taiyaki 151 in waist widths 26,28 and 30cm










And Kiotoshi 162 deep powder board in 25cm waist width.


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## WigMar

Kijima said:


> Fwiw my leading shoulder dislocates very easily but doing heel turns has never caused a dislocation so the forces are quite low, but it will destroy your gloves quickly so tape up. Taped mitts are best.


My leading shoulder is also quite weak. As a result, I try to keep my hands off of the snow. After reading this, I spent all day with my leading hand on the snow. It felt good. 

I dug in at one point, and put a bunch of weight on my front shoulder. It was totally fine. The forces involved were low, and the angle was alright.


----------



## Kijima

WigMar said:


> My leading shoulder is also quite weak. As a result, I try to keep my hands off of the snow. After reading this, I spent all day with my leading hand on the snow. It felt good.
> 
> I dug in at one point, and put a bunch of weight on my front shoulder. It was totally fine. The forces involved were low, and the angle was alright.


Be careful with the dig in. Taped mitts really helps as they are very slippery


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## Kijima




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## Kijima




----------



## lbs123

Nice! If you scroll down fast enough, it works almost like a video


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## Kijima

View attachment 156603


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## Kijima

View attachment 156617


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## Rip154

@Kijima 
What's the main difference between the Twin and Taiyaki, besides the obvious, and what stance ranges do you have?


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## Kijima




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## Kijima




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## MrDavey2Shoes

Ah damnit, I’ve got so far to go. Lol

I think I’ve got to work on front leg extension earlier in my turn.

great sequences, I’m a visual learner so I think this will help me.


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## Kijima

MrDavey2Shoes said:


> Ah damnit, I’ve got so far to go. Lol
> 
> I think I’ve got to work on front leg extension earlier in my turn.
> 
> great sequences, I’m a visual learner so I think this will help me.


We all do man, no matter what level we achieve we are always beginners to the next.


----------



## Kijima

Rip154 said:


> @Kijima
> What's the main difference between the Twin and Taiyaki, besides the obvious, and what stance ranges do you have?


Taiyaki 151 is a powder/carve board with its long nose and short tail, slightly shorter edge length and 8m sidecut so it is very nimble. 26cm, 28cm and 30cm waist widths. 

Onsen Tamago deep carving twin 152 has a longer edge and 10m radius so it has a little bit more edge hold and draws a larger arc. Waist widths every 1cm from 23cm to 30cm. 

Both have the same flex between the feet bamboo core which really helps carving and stance range is 52cm to 62cm. 

So far Taiyaki is the most popular board, but my first day out on the 30cm Onsen Tamago was a blast yesterday, I really enjoyed it.


----------



## WigMar

Thanks for the photo sequences. I found them to be really helpful. Photo sequences are how I learned to skate in the 90s. I had way more mags than videos. This brought me back in a good way. As a result, I made large improvements today. I also spent more time on my butt than I'd like to admit. I'm feeling like a beginner again, but I'm seeing the light. My day ended with a healthy tomahawk in the middle of a deep but absentminded toeside. I was fine, but I took that as a sign to call it. 

I was getting stuck in heelside turns sometimes. I'd end up going uphill and even finish into a bit of a 180. I think my weight may have been too far in the backseat?


----------



## Kijima

WigMar said:


> Thanks for the photo sequences. I found them to be really helpful. Photo sequences are how I learned to skate in the 90s. I had way more mags than videos. This brought me back in a good way. As a result, I made large improvements today. I also spent more time on my butt than I'd like to admit. I'm feeling like a beginner again, but I'm seeing the light. My day ended with a healthy tomahawk in the middle of a deep but absentminded toeside. I was fine, but I took that as a sign to call it.
> 
> I was getting stuck in heelside turns sometimes. I'd end up going uphill and even finish into a bit of a 180. I think my weight may have been too far in the backseat?


Spending too much time on your butt is part of it, keep at it man.
Actually the way to unlock your edge is to squeeze the board forward, stay low and rock over into a toe turn.
My biggest problem is stopping myself from rising up at the end of a heel turn, gotta squeeze and stay low.


----------



## MrDavey2Shoes

Kijima said:


> Spending too much time on your butt is part of it, keep at it man.
> Actually the way to unlock your edge is to squeeze the board forward, stay low and rock over into a toe turn.
> My biggest problem is stopping myself from rising up at the end of a heel turn, gotta squeeze and stay low.


The squeeze is everything. I was blessed with rare powder the last week so carving took a bit of a back seat to tree runs, but back to work this weekend!


----------



## Kijima

MrDavey2Shoes said:


> The squeeze is everything. I was blessed with rare powder the last week so carving took a bit of a back seat to tree runs, but back to work this weekend!


Get back to work!!!


----------



## Kijima

This one is interesting, it shows how edge transition happens with zero input to the board and nothing going on with the lower body at all, it is simply a by product of rocking my body mass over to the other side.


----------



## Kijima

Front leg straight, back leg bent. High board angle as a by product of leg angle, this is where you do not need forward lean increasing board angle.
Note the board does not decamber excessively due to the edge length vs sidecut relationship being favourable for deep carving, most boards will fold up a lot more than this resulting in shortened turns.
































Below is a good angle of weight distribution, not how far forward my body mass is, my head in front of the front binding


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## Kijima

Animated GIF


An animated gif. Make your own gifs with our Animated Gif Maker.




imgflip.com


----------



## wrathfuldeity

Kijima said:


> Front leg straight, back leg bent. High board angle as a by product of leg angle, this is where you do not need forward lean increasing board angle.
> Note the board does not decamber excessively due to the edge length vs sidecut relationship being favourable for deep carving, most boards will fold up a lot more than this resulting in shortened turns.
> View attachment 156663
> 
> View attachment 156673
> 
> View attachment 156666
> View attachment 156667
> 
> 
> Below is a good angle of weight distribution, not how far forward my body mass is, my head in front of the front binding
> View attachment 156668
> 
> View attachment 156670
> View attachment 156671
> View attachment 156672


Please do a sequence transitioning to and through the toeside...THANKS!


----------



## Kijima

wrathfuldeity said:


> Please do a sequence transitioning to and through the toeside...THANKS!


I will, I am still working on my transition to toe turns however so give me some time  

A far as the toe turn itself goes I am strongly trying to achieve an arched body position by mid turn, I can lay down toe turns with 2 hands down but I am trying to do it with a rotated upper body and one, or no hands touching


----------



## Kijima

This is one of my toe turns from yesterday, high board angle, knees down low, upper body rotated how I want it but something still isn't quite right about it. The need to put my hand down in toe turns is something I would like to eliminate. I am actually working on pulling my knees together to decamber the board more because when I drop my upper body closer to the snow I tend to lose my edge. It's a fine line between a heavily weighted and an unweighted board.

I am not a great snowboarder to be honest, I spent 10 years smashing powder and bombing hills, in 2 seasons I have learned all these new skills and I am not finished yet 🤟 🤟 🤟


----------



## MrDavey2Shoes

Soooo smooth.


----------



## wrathfuldeity

Kijima said:


> Spending too much time on your butt is part of it, keep at it man.
> Actually the way to unlock your edge is to squeeze the board forward, stay low and rock over into a toe turn.
> My biggest problem is stopping myself from rising up at the end of a heel turn, *gotta squeeze* and stay low.


Ok...I'm having a tard time...your vid notes repeatedly the squeeze...but it seemed there are 2 squeezes. But what is exactly the squeeze? Is it where you are moving the board under the body, is it un-weighting and kind of doing a cross under to the new edge while continuing to be crouched...I am befuddled.

On another note, today was a bluebird iced groomers; had alot of fun...probably the best ice riding evar. Really noticed head movement and deliberately rotating my head into the carves...still working on shoulder movements. And for moi...the heelside seems easier than getting the toeside together.


----------



## Kijima

wrathfuldeity said:


> Ok...I'm having a tard time...your vid notes repeatedly the squeeze...but it seemed there are 2 squeezes. But what is exactly the squeeze? Is it where you are moving the board under the body, is it un-weighting and kind of doing a cross under to the new edge while continuing to be crouched...I am befuddled.
> 
> On another note, today was a bluebird iced groomers; had alot of fun...probably the best ice riding evar. Really noticed head movement and deliberately rotating my head into the carves...still working on shoulder movements. And for moi...the heelside seems easier than getting the toeside together.


The squeeze is pushing your board out in front of you, when you do it you heavily weight the back of the board which gives you superpowers to complete your turns without washing out. 
It really helps you get from a heel turn into a toe turn, its like throwing the board away from your body, if you look at my heel turn pics you will see that I'm not on top of my board but beside it. The same thing goes for toe turns. If you find yourself completely on top of your board then you have work to do in stretching out, this stretching out happens against the forces of the turn so usually you don't get fully stretched out in a toe turn and end up stuck there with your butt in the air like 99% of knapton imitators. 
So the board you throw away from yourself at the last minute is the board you dont have to try and stretch away from, it's already over there beside you rather than under you and that creates a lovely place for you to lay down a toe turn without having to do all the stretching. 
Basically there is a line your board will take and a line your body will take, between them is separation and the squeeze provides tgat separation along with much needed turn completion. 
When you get to the point that Wigmar is at, getting locked on a heel edge with no way out the squeeze becomes an essential tool allowing you to choose when your next turn will start.


----------



## Kijima

To add. 
Committing to the line your body must take instead of the line your board will take is the real mind trick to deep carving.


----------



## Kijima

Let your mind follow the blue line and your board will take the red line.


----------



## Kijima

I am going to have a look at my toe turn here, it comes off the back of this successful, fairly well completed heel turn on a fairly steep run.








So looking at this entry I can see that I am almost dead center of the board so there was no squeeze, I really need to push the board forward more before I rock over to toe side. That movement would show itself here as a heavily bent rear knee and a straight front knee, you can see my rear knee is only slightly more bent than the front, not good.
Head height is fairly low which is good but the bend is mostly in the waist, I would like it to be mostly in the knees.
Upper body rotation is good, starting the toe turn rotated as per the end of the heel turn is my goal here.
That rear hand is already fishing for the snow, maybe I will try bringing that hand across my body more.







I am looking at the same line my snowboard will take, creating work for myself here ,I will need to move my body away from my board now and that creates the messy parts of the turn that I am not happy with.














By this point my board is pointing directly down hill, from here on the turn forces multiply rapidly making further stretching out impossible, Im stuck now with what I achieved in the first half of the turn.


----------



## Kijima

View attachment 156702

















































Its interesting to see that my shoulders don't really do much rotation throughout the toe turn, my upper body stays in a heel side friendly rotation the entire time.
When I was trying to learn how to get into the heel turns I was really over emphasizing my upper body rotation to complete a toe turn. I feel it's an important stepping stone to getting your head around the new style of heel turn, but it seems I have dropped it without realizing.


----------



## Kijima

Homework. 
Over empahsize the squeeze at the end of heel turns.
Find a little extra heel turn completion.
Bend more at the knees and less at the waist as I rock over into a toe turn.
Find somewhere to put my rear arm at the start of toe turns.


----------



## Kijima

For the insta people

__
http://instagr.am/p/CKYqhehsSaS/


----------



## BoardieK

It looks to me as though your upper body rotation is preventing your front foot (from the knee down) torquing the toe edge into the turn, and therefore your turn is not as tight as it could be.


----------



## Kijima

BoardieK said:


> It looks to me as though your upper body rotation is preventing your front foot (from the knee down) torquing the toe edge into the turn, and therefore your turn is not as tight as it could be.


That is true, but I am actually trying to buy myself time in the turn rather than shorten them up, as I like to use the full width of the run. To rotate or not rotate could be a nice way to control my turn shape for tighter runs.
Thanks for the idea BordieK 🤟 🤟 🤟
I am going to play with a gradual rotation throughout the turn


----------



## Kevington

Staying low and the squeeze at the end of the heel turn allowing a nice transition to the toe edge you talk about immediately made me think of this video:


----------



## Kevington

There are moments where he's so low and over the back at the transition point that his _back_ hand is touching the snow.


----------



## Scalpelman

Kijima said:


> That is true, but I am actually trying to buy myself time in the turn rather than shorten them up, as I like to use the full width of the run. To rotate or not rotate could be a nice way to control my turn shape for tighter runs.
> Thanks for the idea BordieK [emoji2937] [emoji2937] [emoji2937]
> I am going to play with a gradual rotation throughout the turn


That’s my next step in progression. Changing the turn to match the terrain. Sometimes it’s just a matter of following another persons line to get a new perspective on how to lay out turns in varied terrain. Getting into a rhythm of carving low on a unchanging slope is fun. But to me, I’m looking to put the layout carve onto an ever changing fall line. That’s when the flow is achieved. [emoji1308][emoji1689][emoji1591]


----------



## wrathfuldeity

Kijima said:


> The squeeze is pushing your board out in front of you, when you do it you heavily weight the back of the board which gives you superpowers to complete your turns without washing out.
> It really helps you get from a heel turn into a toe turn, its like throwing the board away from your body, if you look at my heel turn pics you will see that I'm not on top of my board but beside it. The same thing goes for toe turns. If you find yourself completely on top of your board then you have work to do in stretching out, this stretching out happens against the forces of the turn so usually you don't get fully stretched out in a toe turn and end up stuck there with your butt in the air like 99% of knapton imitators.
> So the board you throw away from yourself at the last minute is the board you dont have to try and stretch away from, it's already over there beside you rather than under you and that creates a lovely place for you to lay down a toe turn without having to do all the stretching.
> Basically there is a line your board will take and a line your body will take, between them is separation and the squeeze provides tgat separation along with much needed turn completion.
> When you get to the point that Wigmar is at, getting locked on a heel edge with no way out the squeeze becomes an essential tool allowing you to choose when your next turn will start.





Kijima said:


> To add.
> Committing to the line your body must take instead of the line your board will take is the real mind trick to deep carving.





Kijima said:


> Let your mind follow the blue line and your board will take the red line.
> View attachment 156686


Thanks, that makes sense to me...so begs a couple other questions. At the point that the blue and red lines overlap/connect...are you moving your body over the board...or moving the board under your body? Also on your blue red drawing...can you point out where (? presuming you are referring to the body line?) you push/throw the board away/infront of your body...is it before the apex or at the apex of your body line...or where...or is it the board line? Thanks, its all becoming more clear.


----------



## Kijima

wrathfuldeity said:


> Thanks, that makes sense to me...so begs a couple other questions. At the point that the blue and red lines overlap/connect...are you moving your body over the board...or moving the board under your body? Also on your blue red drawing...can you point out where (? presuming you are referring to the body line?) you push/throw the board away/infront of your body...is it before the apex or at the apex of your body line...or where...or is it the board line? Thanks, its all becoming more clear.


1. At the point where the lines connect, tge edge change, you move your body across to the other side of the board. 
2. By the time my board is pointing down hill I am beginning to pass some pressure to the back foot, in the lower half of the turn the back foot does most of the work.
3. Just at the end, before the lines meet, squeeze and rock over to the toe side, you should find your board has moved away from your body by the time you land on your toe edge, saving you lots of work stretching out.


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## Kijima

This is one of my tracks from last season and nicely shows the body line inside the board line.


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## Kijima

Kevington said:


> Staying low and the squeeze at the end of the heel turn allowing a nice transition to the toe edge you talk about immediately made me think of this video:


Yeah he does it a few times, I think the first turn is the best example, then it turns into a fantastic example of squatted toe turns.


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## MrDavey2Shoes

Today my rotations were off and my timing was fucked and I couldn’t get my body pointing where I wanted it. Couldn’t figure out what was off - I figure “oh this is just rocker I guess.” I was riding a Mind Expander for the 4th time.

When I put my board back in my car I realized I was riding +18-0. I had never gone back to ++ after all the pow totally forgot to do it! I was still getting my carves in, but it was a noticeable difference.

side note - the mind expander really turns far better than I expected it to!


----------



## Kijima

MrDavey2Shoes said:


> Today my rotations were off and my timing was fucked and I couldn’t get my body pointing where I wanted it. Couldn’t figure out what was off - I figure “oh this is just rocker I guess.” I was riding a Mind Expander for the 4th time.
> 
> When I put my board back in my car I realized I was riding +18-0. I had never gone back to ++ after all the pow totally forgot to do it! I was still getting my carves in, but it was a noticeable difference.
> 
> side note - the mind expander really turns far better than I expected it to!


The difference is real. 
Those pics I posted were all done with a rear foot angle of +18 on a 30cm waist board.


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## Kijima




----------



## WigMar

Kijima said:


> View attachment 156467


Have you ever tried one of these hand planes? Just looks like the nose of a skateboard strapped to you hand. I'm thinking about making one or two and trying it out. I'm rocking very tough Kinko work mittens, and the snow is polishing the pigskin to a high shine. We'll see how long they last.


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## Kijima

I've not tried a hand plane.


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## NT.Thunder

All the best carvers I see seem to wear that sky blue colour jacket...........maybe it’s just a new wardrobe we need.😂
Great photos


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## BXNoob

Hey ! 
New on this thread. 
Is there any videos of you riding @Kijima ?


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## Kijima

NT.Thunder said:


> All the best carvers I see seem to wear that sky blue colour jacket...........maybe it’s just a new wardrobe we need.😂
> Great photos


You could be onto something man


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## Kijima

BXNoob said:


> Hey !
> New on this thread.
> Is there any videos of you riding @Kijima ?


Welcome BXnoob. 
Here are some of my favourite excuses for not having video yet. 
I just bought a gopro last week but the only day I took it out the angle of the camera was wrong and most of the footage is just blue sky lol.
Since the day those pics were taken its been raining a lot so conditions are poor. 
I am still not happy with my toe turn entry so my riding is not quite ready to be honest, but it will come soon.


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## Kijima

I just found one vid on the gopro that worked, it's a bit of hill bombing but I am uploading it anyway


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## WigMar

I've been thinking about making something like longboard slide gloves. Reducing the friction and increasing the glide of the hand on the snow seems like a good way to improve safety. I got my mitten caught in a skier's trench and wrenched on my arm a bit the other day. I probably had too much weight on that arm though. I'm still feeling out that balancing act.

I started looking at making a hand plane, and it reminded me of longboard slide gloves. Many production slide gloves have plastic slider pads attached to gloves with velcro. If the slider gets stuck on something, it rips off of the velcro attachment instead of wrenching your arm. I'm visualizing a hand plane attached to my mitten with some velcro. Usually they're made out of skateboard noses, but I wonder If I can add some rocker to a cutting board with a heat gun. I've got an old cutting board lying around, but I gave away my old skateboards to neighborhood kids last summer.

Ryan Knapton said he has two bad shoulders, and the slippery marine vinyl on his sleeves makes deep carving safer for him. Even jackets have too much friction. Maybe you're on the right track with the duct tape on your mittens. His vinyl sleeves have got me thinking about gluing some vinyl to the seat of my pants as well. They're taking a beating.


----------



## MrDavey2Shoes

Tell me about it, so many cheek splitters in the name of getting moar loeh.

I’ve been having issue with my tail staying locked in as I get lower. Probably me, but I’m blaming all this delicious fresh soft snow and my tapered deck that I chose for such conditions.

The be next to your board not over your board mindset has helped me. Along with front leg extension. Progress is slow but consistent. I feel the changes but I don’t know how visual they are. My arcs are pretty dialed but I need to get my damn ass on the snow! Perhaps it’s time to kick up the posi posi from 27/9. But after this storm blows through, gotta take the gift of pow when it’s given!


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## Kijima

All I can say about tape is that it works and it's flexible


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## Kijima

MrDavey2Shoes said:


> Tell me about it, so many cheek splitters in the name of getting moar loeh.
> 
> I’ve been having issue with my tail staying locked in as I get lower. Probably me, but I’m blaming all this delicious fresh soft snow and my tapered deck that I chose for such conditions.
> 
> The be next to your board not over your board mindset has helped me. Along with front leg extension. Progress is slow but consistent! I feel the changes but I don’t know how visual they are. My arcs are pretty dialed but I need to get my damn ass on the snow!


Yesterday I got my buddy @dreampow sitting his butt on the snow very quickly and the tip that got him there was to save his toe turn upper body rotation until the very end of the turn. As soon as he held the rotation back in toe turns he was on the snow in his heel turns.


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## MrDavey2Shoes

By that do you mean save the rotation out of the toe turn til the very end of the toe turn or the rotation into the toe turn at the end of the heel turn?


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## Kijima

Ps. I changed the threat title to from eurocarving to deep carving, I think the style that is forming here is not really eurocarving anymore. 
Eurocarving is all about being flat on the snow like a smashed egg and bearing lots of weight.
Deep carving is about maintaining the radius of the turn and getting low without bearing much weight on the snow.


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## MrDavey2Shoes

I noticed that, completely agree with it.


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## Kijima

MrDavey2Shoes said:


> By that do you mean save the rotation out of the toe turn til the very end of the toe turn or the rotation into the toe turn at the end of the heel turn?


Hold back your toe turn


MrDavey2Shoes said:


> By that do you mean save the rotation out of the toe turn til the very end of the toe turn or the rotation into the toe turn at the end of the heel turn?


Don't spend your toe turn rotation allowance until the end of the turn


----------



## Kijima

Here's the hill bombing vid. I accidentally uploaded it to my personal account


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## Scalpelman

I stopped trying to touch the snow. Almost ripped my arm off once. Not worth it.


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## Kijima

Scalpelman said:


> I stopped trying to touch the snow. Almost ripped my arm off once. Not worth it.


Yes I my next mission is to find a new place for my rear arm in toe turns. Im thinking to bring it forward near my front pocket and then raise it in circular motion so it's not begging for the snow all the time.


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## Scalpelman

Kijima said:


> Here's the hill bombing vid. I accidentally uploaded it to my personal account


Nice vid. What board are you riding?


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## Kijima

Scalpelman said:


> Nice vid. What board are you riding?


The Onsen Tamago 152 twin, 30cm waist.
I am 191cm, 90kg（6 foot 3 200lb）and now in a 9.5 boot.

Wide boards get heavy if they are too long so I like to keep them short and flexible, if you stack your weight you can carve on very short edges.


----------



## Paxford

Kijima said:


> I am going to have a look at my toe turn here, it comes off the back of this successful, fairly well completed heel turn on a fairly steep run.
> View attachment 156687
> 
> So looking at this entry I can see that I am almost dead center of the board so there was no squeeze,* I really need to push the board forward more before I rock over to toe side. *That movement would show itself here as a heavily bent rear knee and a straight front knee, you can see my rear knee is only slightly more bent than the front, not good.
> Head height is fairly low which is good but the bend is mostly in the waist, I would like it to be mostly in the knees.
> Upper body rotation is good, starting the toe turn rotated as per the end of the heel turn is my goal here.
> That rear hand is already fishing for the snow, maybe I will try bringing that hand across my body more.
> View attachment 156688
> I am looking at the same line my snowboard will take, creating work for myself here ,I will need to move my body away from my board now and that creates the messy parts of the turn that I am not happy with.
> View attachment 156689
> View attachment 156690
> By this point my board is pointing directly down hill, from here on the turn forces multiply rapidly making further stretching out impossible, Im stuck now with what I achieved in the first half of the turn.
> View attachment 156692
> View attachment 156695
> View attachment 156696
> View attachment 156697
> View attachment 156698
> View attachment 156699


You can fix this. Your heel turns are beautiful. As you know, toe doesn't match. I bolded what you need to do in your comment above before anything else. Do a mini squeeze *on your heel *right before switching to toeside carve. Your flatbasing before your toe turn and you shouldn't be. Squeezing a little heelside carve uphill immediately before switching to toe will allow you to fall over to toe without reaching for it. You'll be low without hunching over, you'll actually be leaning back uphill. Suggest ignoring your plans for torso and hand positioning after the squeeze and just work on that squeeze, then go from there to figure out the rest. Not convinced your torso should be open, nor right hand forward of your body. Look how a good surfer bottom turns toeside, backhand trailing in the water, not out in front like you have it.


----------



## Kijima

Paxford said:


> You can fix this. Your heel turns are beautiful. As you know, toe doesn't match. I bolded what you need to do in your comment above before anything else. Do a mini squeeze *on your heel *right before switching to toeside carve. Your flatbasing before your toe turn and you shouldn't be. Squeezing a little heelside carve uphill immediately before switching to toe will allow you to fall over to toe without reaching for it. You'll be low without hunching over, you'll actually be leaning back uphill. Suggest ignoring your plans for torso and hand positioning after the squeeze and just work on that squeeze, then go from there to figure out the rest. Not convinced your torso should be open, nor right hand forward of your body. Look how a good surfer bottom turns toeside, backhand trailing in the water, not out in front like you have it.


Firstly, thank you for helping man, I appreciate it.
I can also appreciate I am possibly putting the cart before the horse with the upper body counter rotation but I am not giving up on the idea just yet, I know I can quit that and go 2 hands down easily but you can see the difference it makes to the style of the turn. Knapton counter rotates and has the best style, there is a lot to like about keeping the front shoulder pulled back IMO.
The heel squeeze is more than likely the solution.


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## Kijima

It's even in his hip rotation


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## lbs123

Kijima said:


> It's even in his hip rotation


What about this, anything you can use from it? I found it a similar technique in terms of hip rotation. He doesn't go that low, but I guess he could if he wanted.


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## lbs123

One thing I've noticed in your toe turns is that your front arm gets a bit passive, you could try to gradually push it backwards during the turn which would result in more open hips. This could be an equivalent of your rear arm movement during the heel turn, when you are pushing it forward. Even on the above image, Knapton has his front arm behind his hip.

Edit: I see that you've already mentioned Knapton's shoulder pulled back.


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## Kijima

lbs123 said:


> What about this, anything you can use from it? I found it a similar technique in terms of hip rotation. He doesn't go that low, but I guess he could if he wanted.


I don't think so but I will say Xavier was super cool to me when I met him at Nozawa Onsen 3 or 4 years ago.


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## Kijima

lbs123 said:


> One thing I've noticed in your toe turns is that your front arm gets a bit passive, I could try to gradually push it backwards during the turn which would result in more open hips. This could be an equivalent of your rear arm movement during the heel turn, when you are pushing it forward. Even on the above image, Knapton has his front arm behind his hip.


That is an interesting concept, to be upper body neutral entering the turn and then pull it back. 🙏


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## Kijima

Here is Knapton starting his toe turn with his arm already behind his back and bent at the waist. The only difference is that he got his board away from his body at the last minute and being shorter he has less distance to stretch out.


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## lbs123

Kijima said:


> Here is Knapton starting his toe turn with his arm already behind his back and bent at the waist. The only difference is that he got his board away from his body at the last minute and being shorter he has less distance to stretch out.


Right, I've just checked his videos and that's how he rides. I respect the man, but his style and this particular technique of keeping arm behind the back is not something that I'd like that much. Still, I think that gradually moving arm backwards could make some difference. Unfortunately, the resorts are closed here, so it's not something I can test myself now.


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## Kijima

We have had nothing but rain for nearly a week here so everything is either slush or ice but as soon as we get a new surface to ride on I will be putting all of these ideas under the microscope.


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## lifeisgold

Anyone try coating the gloves in rubber or hx-80? I am afraid at this rate in a couple pages we will have a few people with an adaptive hand held ski or something, and at what point would you no longer be boarding? I think riding two edges put you really close to ski territory...


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## Kijima

lifeisgold said:


> Anyone try coating the gloves in rubber or hx-80? I am afraid at this rate in a couple pages we will have a few people with an adaptive hand held ski or something, and at what point would you no longer be boarding? I think riding two edges put you really close to ski territory...


I sprayed a pair of mitts with that rubber in a can stuff but it peeled off instantly.


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## wrathfuldeity

Kijima said:


> Yes I my next mission is to find a new place for my rear arm in toe turns. Im thinking to bring it forward near my front pocket and then raise it in circular motion so it's not begging for the snow all the time.





lbs123 said:


> What about this, anything you can use from it? I found it a similar technique in terms of hip rotation. He doesn't go that low, but I guess he could if he wanted.


Kijima it looks that you and X really use your rear knee to drive, shape, squeeze...and then explode at the last moment to rise up and thus de-camber your toeside turns to set up the heelside. Its like doing a combination of a cross under and a cross over...but its more of a fore/aft movement. Meaning you are rising up to decamber (instead of sucking up the knees to the next edge in a cross under). But you are pushing the board forward during the squeeze to set up the heelside; then you are letting the board float or pulling the board back to the dump.


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## wrathfuldeity

Kijima said:


> I sprayed a pair of mitts with that rubber in a can stuff but it peeled off instantly.


Maybe use some Freesole...aka Aquaseal SR+ to glue on a thin layer of plastic or a p-tex puck like pad.


----------



## ZeMax

Check on the extremecarving forum for all your glove coating needs ! These guys tested them all.

I had a set covered in the recommended Sikaflex stuff (sorry can't remember) worked quite well. Slippery yet dureable. Thor gloves last quite a while too check em out.

I have since switched to Kinco gloves. Getting 3 seasons out of a set before making hole in the palm's leather


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## MrDavey2Shoes

I find that the trailing arm location dictates the style of toe turn. Mellow soul carves where you ride through the side cuts normal diameter and just dig the centrifugal force? Let it trail behind. Looking to drive the turn more and manipulate the radius? I’ll bring the trail arm more inline with the center of my body...I think. 

If I’m not touching snow I believe my arm usually starts off trailing and works it’s way forward as I extend upward. I don’t usually pay much attention to what’s going on with my toeside since those are auto pilot but I’ll try to be aware of what’s going on today.


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## Paxford

MrDavey2Shoes said:


> I find that the trailing arm location dictates the style of toe turn. Mellow soul carves where you ride through the side cuts normal diameter and just dig the centrifugal force? Let it trail behind. Looking to drive the turn more and manipulate the radius? I’ll bring the trail arm more inline with the center of my body...I think.
> 
> If I’m not touching snow I believe my arm usually starts off trailing and works it’s way forward as I extend upward. I don’t usually pay much attention to what’s going on with my toeside since those are auto pilot but I’ll try to be aware of what’s going on today.


This ^^^


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## Paxford

Kijima said:


> Firstly, thank you for helping man, I appreciate it.
> I can also appreciate I am possibly putting the cart before the horse with the upper body counter rotation but I am not giving up on the idea just yet, I know I can quit that and go 2 hands down easily but you can see the difference it makes to the style of the turn. Knapton counter rotates and has the best style, there is a lot to like about keeping the front shoulder pulled back IMO.
> The heel squeeze is more than likely the solution.
> View attachment 156817
> 
> View attachment 156818


He's open torso but that looks like nearing the end of his turn where he would microhook back uphill before switching to heel. There's a place for open torso to start the initiation back to heel. Or if you want/need to scope what's down below. From the pics it looks like you are open torso more towards the beginning of the toe turn.


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## Scalpelman

I’m still diggin the fact that you are laying out those turns on a 152. It’s a perfect groomer. What’s your approximate speed? Can you still ride through a bit of chop like that?


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## Paxford

@Kijima looking at your comment again I really do think it's cart before the horse making things feel weird from the open torso. Why they feel weird IMO is either you are opening the torso, which changes the weighting over the board, at less than ideal moments, or you don't have enough speed to counteract open torso weight shifts if you are doing it at the right moment. I open torso when everything is perfectly balanced at that moment I am feeling weightless, not before. And if I'm beginning the turn there are G's and I am feeling heavy, if I'm traversing there aren't. If I opened torso and held it before that weightless moment I would be fighting against the G force of the turn and it would feel weird if I didn't bring it all the way around and throw spray, or initiate a heelside, or get low again by pumping down the line. Open torso while traversing makes more sense to me than while actually turning. Spectators might think I am turning when I open torso, but it's really not a C arc I am cutting. It's an initiating turn, then more of a stand up full leaned straight shoot, then a closing turn to heelside. Watch the longer eurocarves on Toy Films, they aren't turning as much at that moment when they are fully laying it down, they are more shooting straight. Haven't checked Knapton but I suspect it's the same, more straight shooting when laying it down.

I'm thinking about lines drawn longboard skating to try and connect this thought with you. I carved down hills as a kid, starting with small where I could just turn to scrub speed, essentially flatbasing. As the hills got steeper or longer with more speed I had two choices, either traverse more sharply or get lower and weighted more uphill to counteract the G's as I took the fall line. If I opened my torso that would shift my weight downhill, feel weird, and potentially cause a spill. I "generally" wouldn't risk opening torso over concrete unless I carried it through to a heelside turn or pumped down the line, almost immediately returning to low attack position driving forward. On water or snow, sure, I'll open torso for fun because it feels good at the right moment. I don't see it as very functional though by itself, it's a slick trick unless followed by a transition to another move. Suggest getting that toeside dialed hugging the upslope before you try having fun opening the torso. You'll probably over-turn uphill quite often until you get the board's torsional flex figured to keep your nose pointed down the fall line, but once you get that line balanced, you'll be leaning already and easily stand open torso just inches from the snow, no weirdness involved.


----------



## Kijima

I dunno guys. I watched a lot of knapton last night and he starts his toe turn rotated away and holds it for the duration of the turn. 
If he can do it anybody can do it so Im not 100% that is the broken link but I am going to have a look. 
Personally I feel it's lack of separation, anyway I can't do much until it snows again because it's too icy right now to throw myself into belly flops


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## Kijima

Scalpelman said:


> I’m still diggin the fact that you are laying out those turns on a 152. It’s a perfect groomer. What’s your approximate speed? Can you still ride through a bit of chop like that?


I don't need much edge length to hold a carve, when you are locked you are locked.
Im not sure how fast I ride but Im definitely not a snail haha, in chop I think about the triangle my legs and board make, and I stiffen the board by pushing my feet in opposite directions. That works to stiffen my board like a truss.

30cm waist board get heavy when they are too long, so riding short boards is a good idea in my opinion. No blaming the tools for the tradesmans shoddy work 


Kijima said:


> I am going to have a look at my toe turn here, it comes off the back of this successful, fairly well completed heel turn on a fairly steep run.
> View attachment 156687
> 
> So looking at this entry I can see that I am almost dead center of the board so there was no squeeze, I really need to push the board forward more before I rock over to toe side. That movement would show itself here as a heavily bent rear knee and a straight front knee, you can see my rear knee is only slightly more bent than the front, not good.
> Head height is fairly low which is good but the bend is mostly in the waist, I would like it to be mostly in the knees.
> Upper body rotation is good, starting the toe turn rotated as per the end of the heel turn is my goal here.
> That rear hand is already fishing for the snow, maybe I will try bringing that hand across my body more.
> View attachment 156688
> I am looking at the same line my snowboard will take, creating work for myself here ,I will need to move my body away from my board now and that creates the messy parts of the turn that I am not happy with.
> View attachment 156689
> View attachment 156690
> By this point my board is pointing directly down hill, from here on the turn forces multiply rapidly making further stretching out impossible, Im stuck now with what I achieved in the first half of the turn.
> View attachment 156692
> View attachment 156695
> View attachment 156696
> View attachment 156697
> View attachment 156698
> View attachment 156699


Looking at this change of edges here, I feel I am doing too much with my upper body and not enough with my knees, I am going to play with different amounts of knee drive as I roll over to the toe edge


----------



## Kijima

If you watch this vid to the end you can see me trying to carve prior to all of this.


----------



## Kijima

1000 posts and 54,000 views. Wow.


----------



## WigMar

Kijima said:


> I don't need much edge length to hold a carve, when you are locked you are locked.


Yeah, I had a great time carving on my 151 Slush Slasher today. Riding something softer, shorter, and wider with a big sidecut seemed to make progression easier. I was riding chopped up afternoon groomers, but I didn't have any troubles with traction. Once you're locked, you're leaving trenches.


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## Kijima

This example is inspired by Paxfords insta message.






















The pic below is the equivalent of edge change to toe turn, he is rocking over to toe edge








Then he rotates his upper body completely while the board continues to move away from him creating separation








So he gives all his rotation at the start of his turn, the opposite to what I am trying to do with my toe turn. 

Two things, the move on a surfboard happens very quickly compared to a snowboard, and the surfer cannot simply wait for his sidecut to bring the board around for him so he has to force it with upper body rotation alone.


----------



## lbs123

Stale Sandbech had a carving episode on his channel yesterday. Obviously, mixed with freestyle, but at 5:13 there is a transition from the heel to toe side carve






What I find interesting is how far behind he has his front arm on the toe side carve. I quite like this style:


----------



## Kijima

lbs123 said:


> Stale Sandbech had a carving episode on his channel yesterday. Obviously, mixed with freestyle, but at 5:13 there is a transition from the heel to toe side carve
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What I find interesting is how far behind he has his front arm on the toe side carve. I quite like this style:
> View attachment 156865


I like it too. I think it looks better and it means you have all that twisting force stored up that you can use at the end of the turn.


----------



## lbs123

One more thing I'm working on when riding is hunched back. This is less obvious issue than bending at the waist, but affects many of us because of nowadays lifestyle and wrong posture we might already have. When it comes to snowboarding I'm not sure if it has any impact on the riding itself, but for sure it doesn't add to the overall style. So what I'm trying to do is to be aware of that and actively retract my shoulder blades when riding.


----------



## Kijima

lbs123 said:


> One more thing I'm working on when riding is hunched back. This is less obvious issue than bending at the waist, but affects many of us because of nowadays lifestyle and wrong posture we might already have. When it comes to snowboarding I'm not sure if it has any impact on the riding itself, but for sure it doesn't add to the overall style. So what I'm trying to do is to be aware of that and actively retract my shoulder blades when riding.


Me too man. I actually live with pain every day, sore muscles from having bad posture my entire life. 

One of the things I focused on early in this thread was posture awareness and correction.


----------



## Rip154

I was looking at the hillbombing one, and noticed two turns (1.03 and 1.50) that were better. You might have to put some more G into the turn before laying it out, kinda fits with the counter rotating being discussed.


----------



## MrDavey2Shoes

The counter turn is what allows you to drop your elbow to the snow on a toeside. The trailing lead arm is a symptom of bringing your trail arm forward. In the same way that a 180 is bringing your tail forward not your nose backward you want to bring that arm forward not focus on bringing the lead arm backward


----------



## Paxford

Again, this ^^^ if you are going for that trailing arm forward then you will have open torso with forward arm back. Knapton is using rotation to pop butter twisty 180/360 things out of carves and opens torso to set up rotation for them. He sometimes keeps open torso and just carves underfoot cross under keeping torso centered in space. But occasionally he does keep that torso closed to produce the most powerful crossover carve where he’s also traversing more. I’ll point out that look from Kijimas surf pics above in a sec ...


----------



## Paxford

Kijima said:


> This example is inspired by Paxfords insta message.
> View attachment 156860


This one, standard bottom turn, trailing arm, eyes forward, torso closed, attacking it. Kelly or similar caliber surfer will show it better if I can find it ...


----------



## Paxford




----------



## Paxford

Kelly is rotating around a point to carve a circle toe-side. @Kijima I see you rotating around a point on your heelside turns, and they are powerful. 

Open torso toeside isn't driving as much power into that point rotation around a circle toeside carve as you could because you are shifting weight outside of the circle, towards your heelside edge. You'll feel weightless when you do open torso, which is cool, but if you keep the torso closed you'll feel the full G-force potential of the turn you are laying. Neither is right or wrong, you should be able to do both though, they are both pretty sick. Power of the G's through your turn, or more of a layback towards the tail mellow weightless cruise through your turn.


----------



## Kijima

Well I went out today and started really squeezing at the end of my heel turns and putting 2 hands down in toe turns. It's much easier to be low with 2 hands down and upper body square to the snow surface, Im going to get very familiar with riding like that and once I get good at it I will start to play with adding style to it with counter rotation. 
I was creating nice easy separation by squeezing the board away from my body at the last moment.

Anyway it looks like a week of powder from tomorrow so time to chill on the carves for a bit.


----------



## Scalpelman

Paxford said:


> Kelly is rotating around a point to carve a circle toe-side. @Kijima I see you rotating around a point on your heelside turns, and they are powerful.
> 
> Open torso toeside isn't driving as much power into that point rotation around a circle toeside carve as you could because you are shifting weight outside of the circle, towards your heelside edge. You'll feel weightless when you do open torso, which is cool, but if you keep the torso closed you'll feel the full G-force potential of the turn you are laying. Neither is right or wrong, you should be able to do both though, they are both pretty sick. Power of the G's through your turn, or more of a layback towards the tail mellow weightless cruise through your turn.


YES. Both are fun. I like to play around during the day with each. But the more forward facing, lead arm trailing position seems to allow me to disengage locked in edges a bit faster and get in a bit of yearning for turning mood. Thanks for pointing that out. Sometimes your subconscious figures it out but your cortex doesn’t realize why.


----------



## MrDavey2Shoes

Man I just love talking about turning. Almost as much as I love turning,

This is the first season I messed around with the double hand touch turns which I call the "bellyflop" turn. While it looks like it will be a more difficult turn its actually an easier turn than the elbow drop because your weight stays a bit more centered along the sidecut. I was shocked how quickly it came to me. They feel so good too. I also like that they can be done at pretty mellow speeds and with very little prep. Pretty much just a slight rock heelside before the toeside. Its not as dynamic a turn as an elbow dropper and doesnt generate power, but who cares. Its a fun multiplier.


----------



## WigMar

I taught the two handed bellyflop toe turn to a friend today. I think that was the first time his sidecut took him for a ride. He was stoked. 

I've been going back and forth between one and two hands down on toe turns. On the one handers, I've been tucking my leading arm behind my front hip early in the turn. It reminds me to push those hips closer to the snow. It kinda stalls the turn a bit. Releasing that hand forward towards the end of the turn generates extra rotation and completes the toe turn with a little uphill explision that makes the transition to heels easier. You can sort of fall into it. It also leaves my front hand in a good place to drop to the snow on the upcoming heel turn.


----------



## Kijima

I find when I go two hands down the only way out of the turn is to suck my legs up knapton style which forces a low entry into the heel turn


----------



## Kijima

Green jacket guy starts adding squeeze at about his fourth turn, unfortunately backs it up with heavily squatted toe turns.


----------



## BXNoob

Kijima said:


> Green jacket guy starts adding squeeze at about his fourth turn, unfortunately backs it up with heavily squatted toe turns.


Ok so I had a question (maybe the answer is obvious):
I noticed that Japanese riders (I think) like the ones featured on toyfilm’s insta for example all seem to ride with a heavy back foot. To the point that they are sometimes close to doing a tail press. 
But then I watch people like Knapton and he’s reallyyyy centered on his board.
Is there a real difference and cons/pros to both style ?
Personally, im more confortable trying to ride like Knapton but thats probably because I learned with instructors.


----------



## Kijima

BXNoob said:


> Ok so I had a question (maybe the answer is obvious):
> I noticed that Japanese riders (I think) like the ones featured on toyfilm’s insta for example all seem to ride with a heavy back foot. To the point that they are sometimes close to doing a tail press.
> But then I watch people like Knapton and he’s reallyyyy centered on his board.
> Is there a real difference and cons/pros to both style ?
> Personally, im more confortable trying to ride like Knapton but thats probably because I learned with instructors.


FF stance vs duck stance I think.
When you squat with FF your weight goes back naturally, when you squat with duck your weight goes center.

FF stance is very common in Japan.


----------



## BXNoob

Kijima said:


> FF stance vs duck stance I think.
> When you squat with FF your weight goes back naturally, when you squat with duck your weight goes center.
> 
> FF stance is very common in Japan.


Alright thanks ! 
Imo FF carving looks way better, might try it on my Pentaquark once I don’t have to speed check between each turn lol.


----------



## Kijima

BXNoob said:


> Alright thanks !
> Imo FF carving looks way better, might try it on my Pentaquark once I don’t have to speed check between each turn lol.


I agree with you 100%


----------



## BXNoob

Kijima said:


> I agree with you 100%


Another question for you @Kijima , do you prefer riding with low or middle or high arms ? Im asking you because judging by the pics of you riding, im still years behind in terms of skill.
I was told I look goofy because I always ride with high arms, especially while carving. But then I saw riders like Ryo Aiwaza and so it must be a preference thing ?


----------



## Kijima

BXNoob said:


> Another question for you @Kijima , do you prefer riding with low or middle or high arms ? Im asking you because judging by the pics of you riding, im still years behind in terms of skill.
> I was told I look goofy because I always ride with high arms, especially while carving. But then I saw riders like Ryo Aiwaza and so it must be a preference thing ?


That is a good question because I struggle to control my rear arm sometimes, almost to the point of having an invisible girlfriend   sometimes I hear travis rice whispering in my ear things like "Yo Kijima you're so hot right now," but then I snap out of it and realize that its not travis rice whispering in my ear but its actually my INVISIBLE GIRLFRIEND talking shit in my ear again.

The japanese style is to raise that rear hand up in the air, high five your IG rather than hold her hips. I think it probably looks more stylish with the hand up


----------



## WigMar

I noticed Stale has his rear arm going pretty vertical over his head on his deep heelsides. My first impression is that it's kinda goofy, but I'm going to see how it feels before I judge.


----------



## Kijima

My arm goes out like this to counter my body weight, bending it up at the elbow might look more stylish.


----------



## Kijima

Today I played with the rear arm up and liked it, I couldn't go super deep because there was lots of powder but I am definitely going to experiment a bit more with it.


----------



## Paxford

My back arm is up beyond level from time to time, sometimes when I’m saving myself, sometimes when I’m flowing. I try to only use it during flow to pump more power/gain speed, but it’s a lifesaver in junk, in trees, rocks, logs, uphills, for weighting/unweighting, speedchecks, carving chunder, etc. I landed on this article from 1999, had to click because of the pre-2K, so tempting and a good read to pair with Kijima’s body positioning discussion.





__





The Core Four | SNOWBOARDER Magazine


The Core Four




www.snowboarder.com


----------



## MCrides

Question for the carving crew: what's the effect of setback on carving? I pushed my bindings all the way back yesterday thinking I was in for some deep pow. The pow turned out to be meh, but I had some fantastic edge hold on my carves.


----------



## Yeahti87

MCrides said:


> Question for the carving crew: what's the effect of setback on carving? I pushed my bindings all the way back yesterday thinking I was in for some deep pow. The pow turned out to be meh, but I had some fantastic edge hold on my carves.


It allows me to ride more front foot-heavy. You have less space to lean back at the end of the carve but it’s harder to make a full camber twitchy when initiating the turn from the front foot. My default setback on carvers is around 20-30 mm now.
I prefer a more centered stance when I ride between 15/-15 and 18/-9.


----------



## Snowdaddy

I personally do not set back or set forward. I've tried that a bit and found I like working from the centered stance is best for me. Even my First Call feels best riding centered. That board seems to have a smaller radius towards both nose and tail and going in on the front foot and out on the back foot makes for the most fun carving.

My other boards' centered stance is already set back on sidecut.


----------



## MrDavey2Shoes

I stay as close to reference stance as possible by splitting any change to stance from reference equally between front and rear foot. I like to ride boards how they're intended. Otherwise I think the sidecut gets weird. Just my opinion.

Anyway had a breakthrough on heelsides this week and I'm now touching snow on command. I have opened the radius on the end of my toesides slightly keeping more momentum into my heelsides and thus cutting down on the amount of rotation my body needs to make. This allows me to make the upper body rotation later in my turn which keeps me in the front seat longer, equating to moarr loehh. This knapton video brought this together for me. At 2:18 you see that he doesn't rotate his upper body until that heel edge is well set and hes about halfway through the arc. If you're riding ++ you can ignore the bit he mentions prior about the "big twist". Not needed on ++.

Admittedly I'm reaching snow diagonally opposed to straight out the back, but I think repetition will get me more laid out.






ryan knapton heelside carve - - Video Search Results


The search engine that helps you find exactly what you're looking for. Find the most relevant information, video, images, and answers from all across the Web.




video.search.yahoo.com


----------



## Kijima

I ride centre of sidecut.


----------



## Kijima

MCrides said:


> Question for the carving crew: what's the effect of setback on carving? I pushed my bindings all the way back yesterday thinking I was in for some deep pow. The pow turned out to be meh, but I had some fantastic edge hold on my carves.


You were weighting the back of the board more than usual.


----------



## MCrides

Kijima said:


> You were weighting the back of the board more than usual.


Yeah, that was my best guess. Part of me feels like it's cheating, the other part of me is asking why I wouldn't "cheat" all the time if it just automatically gives me better edge hold.


----------



## MCrides

MrDavey2Shoes said:


> At 2:18 you see that he doesn't rotate his upper body until that heel edge is well set and hes about halfway through the arc.


Great find. His front knee is really instructive to watch on that same turn. Really obviously straightens out as his body rotates.


----------



## Kijima

Last night it rained hard and conditions were great for carving today. Super fast snow.
I was doing toe turns two hands down, elbow down and one hand down, so three different styles. 
Practicing with 2 hands down is really helping me get a good feel for things whilst I am down on the snow, my one hand down turn has become lower than it was before, so getting down any how you can is an important step


----------



## MrDavey2Shoes

Kijima said:


> Last night it rained hard and conditions were great for carving today. Super fast snow.
> I was doing toe turns two hands down, elbow down and one hand down, so three different styles.
> Practicing with 2 hands down is really helping me get a good feel for things whilst I am down on the snow, my one hand down turn has become lower than it was before, so getting down any how you can is an important step


Yea dude!


----------



## Kijima

I felt my jacket gripping the snow when I was elbow down but Im not sure if I want the knapton sleeve, its quite the statement lol


----------



## MrDavey2Shoes

Kijima said:


> I felt my jacket gripping the snow when I was elbow down but Im not sure if I want the knapton sleeve, its quite the statement lol


Yea I don’t do a Knapton sleeve either. However I do try to grip my cuff in my fist which is a tip I picked up from one of his videos a while back.


----------



## Kijima

Yesterday I started playing with product photography for the website


----------



## MrDavey2Shoes

I’m a bit stoned but they look like they taste good.


----------



## Kijima

MrDavey2Shoes said:


> I’m a bit stoned but they look like they taste good.


Thats a hell of a club to be a part of


----------



## Rides with Nate

Sounds like some great carving techniques. I’ve got some questions, so I think I understand the front shoulder joystick thing, but how do I position my knees and hips, how much do I bend, and should my back be straight or leaning toward the turn? And at what points in the turns should I bend or straighten my knees?
Anyone know of some videos that would help explain?


----------



## MrDavey2Shoes

@Rides with Nate theres a couple videos Kijima posted in here but it’s going to take some sifting at this point as we’re 53 pages in (wow!). Try to find the Dolphin Dance and Hulahoop videos for starting points. From there it’s pretty much sore tailbones and wrists until you get it right. Which I have not 🤣

are you running ++ yet because that’s pretty critical to the turns we’re talking about here.


----------



## Rides with Nate

MrDavey2Shoes said:


> @Rides with Nate theres a couple videos Kijima posted in here but it’s going to take some sifting at this point as we’re 53 pages in (wow!). Try to find the Dolphin Dance and Hulahoop videos for starting points. From there it’s pretty much sore tailbones and wrists until you get it right. Which I have not 🤣
> 
> are you running ++ yet because that’s pretty critical to the turns we’re talking about here.


Thanks I’ll go look for those. Hopefully I’ll go again soon so I can practice.

Newbie question, is ++ both feet angled forward? Because if so I am not 😂


----------



## MrDavey2Shoes

@Rides with Nate yes, ++ is both feet forward. Not needed for all carving, but pretty helpful for this style.


----------



## Rides with Nate

MrDavey2Shoes said:


> @Rides with Nate yes, ++ is both feet forward. Not needed for all carving, but pretty helpful for this style.


Thanks I’ll try it out, it doesn’t sound as comfortable to me but I’ll see how I like it.


----------



## ZeMax

Rides with Nate said:


> Thanks I’ll try it out, it doesn’t sound as comfortable to me but I’ll see how I like it.


Go easy
24 /6 
30 / 9
then really crank it up 35 / 12


----------



## Kijima

Shit is starting to get serious around here! 
This board is a prototype for next season called Gerende Cutter 152. 
I have no hesitation in pumping out a batch of these for next season as it rides amazingly. 
Multi radius sidecuts, teamed up with lifted tips, an unlikely combo that really worked out. Im pretty stoked on how easy it rides vs the performance it gives back, long edge carve boards can be demanding but this thing has a playful side to it✌✌✌


----------



## NT.Thunder

Kijima said:


> Shit is starting to get serious around here!
> This board is a prototype for next season called Gerende Cutter 152.
> I have no hesitation in pumping out a batch of these for next season as it rides amazingly.
> Multi radius sidecuts, teamed up with lifted tips, an unlikely combo that really worked out. Im pretty stoked on how easy it rides vs the performance it gives back, long edge carve boards can be demanding but this thing has a playful side to it✌✌✌
> View attachment 157074



Man that is a sweet looking board, similar shape to a ........................


----------



## Paxford

@Kijima and really everyone, tried reverse eurocarve? All I can say is IT HURTS 😂 Need to up my switch carving, or lack thereof atm.


----------



## Kijima

Paxford said:


> @Kijima and really everyone, tried reverse eurocarve? All I can say is IT HURTS 😂 Need to up my switch carving, or lack thereof atm.


No I have not but I see lots of people trying it, it seems everybody wants it. I saw a girl playing around with gentle toe side carves 360 spin out into a reverse carve, that looked fun.
Ive got 40cm powder outside my door thos morning so there wont be much else but point and giggle happening today


----------



## MrDavey2Shoes

Are you guys talking about revert carves but laid out onto the elbow?


----------



## Paxford

Yep, this.






Nowhere near getting my arm down in reverse. Really like how RK breaks it down. Every time I ride switch I tell myself “it’s the same, you are still riding forward”. I suck at it, but I stay calm thinking about how the motions are exactly the same as going forward, which I’ve got down, just need to build the muscle memory.


----------



## Kijima

MrDavey2Shoes said:


> Are you guys talking about revert carves but laid out onto the elbow?


Reverse carves in general are trendy around here.


----------



## MrDavey2Shoes

There’s a pretty helpful boardarchive video too. Honestly the only thing I’ve ever taken away from board archive or snowboard pro camp lol


----------



## MCrides

I can't seem to carry enough speed into the revert so they end up looking pretty weak. At what point in the turn do you guys start the revert?

I agree the laid out revert is sliiiiiick.


----------



## MrDavey2Shoes

You can do them anywhere really...more important than speed is weighting your back foot once it turns into your front foot. I like to try to look over my front (now back) shoulder to help drive the weight.

Edit: I don’t get them laid out all pro-like


----------



## Kijima

Its a big pow day in Japan and Im waiting to ride the steepest trees in Japan.


----------



## BoardieK

Taking the one on the left? 😁


----------



## Kijima

BoardieK said:


> Taking the one on the left? 😁


----------



## Kijima

Well the Kiotoshi 162 powder board excelled today, it really is unsinkable and the long soft tail is a stabilizing pleasure to have running behind you. I'll never change a thing about that board as long as I live, it really is the perfect big powder day stick.
I own a birdman 180 too but the Kiotoshi 162 does it better.


----------



## Kijima

I just ordered one of these cant plates for my rear binding thinking it might deliver more power to the rear heel.


----------



## Rip154

MCrides said:


> I can't seem to carry enough speed into the revert so they end up looking pretty weak. At what point in the turn do you guys start the revert?


If you start with a heelside carve till you are facing downhill, then do a quick frontside revert with your knees bent and back hand down and try to lock it into a carve a few times first, it will get easier.


----------



## Aracan

Kijima said:


> I just ordered one of these cant plates for my rear binding thinking it might deliver more power to the rear heel.


They would have told you that at any Pureboarding camp in the last twelve years or so. (Although they might have added it's not worth bothering with moving parts, just get the 6° wedge and be done with it.)


----------



## ZeMax

Aracan said:


> They would have told you that at any Pureboarding camp in the last twelve years or so. (Although they might have added it's not worth bothering with moving parts, just get the 6° wedge and be done with it.)


Doesn't Joerg and his crew ride flat ?


----------



## Aracan

ZeMax said:


> Doesn't Joerg and his crew ride flat ?


You're probably thinking of the Swoard guys. They're very big on riding flat.


----------



## ZeMax

Aracan said:


> You're probably thinking of the Swoard guys. They're very big on riding flat.


Right,both flat.

Ah yes. think I remeber now: flat front foot and big ass heel block with the the toe lever so loose it is scary.


----------



## Kijima

Another fking powder day lol. No carving to be done.


----------



## Kijima

Aracan said:


> They would have told you that at any Pureboarding camp in the last twelve years or so.


Well that means I saved a lot of money by buying one of my own will, without having to pay money to someone so they could recommend I buy one


----------



## ZeMax

PureBoarding clinics are Free.


----------



## Kijima

ZeMax said:


> PureBoarding clinics are Free.


I was having a laugh man, Aracan obviously needed to get that off his chest, and Im doing my best not to take the bait. 
✌


----------



## Aracan

I'll be curious to know how the heel block works out for you.


----------



## ZeMax

Kijima said:


> I was having a laugh man, Aracan obviously needed to get that off his chest, and Im doing my best not to take the bait.
> ✌


All good. jokes and sarcasm gets lost in the translation often on my side.


----------



## timmytard

I just took a couple vids the other day.
I noticed that I use my trailing hand to help me turn toeside.
I've been going sofa king fast lately that if I just push my back hand out away from my body just a little bit, the resistance from the wind helps me turn.
I had no idea I was doing this.
But I do it in almost all my videos.
Only when I'm hauling ass though.

Hahaha that's my contribution lol

TT


----------



## ZeMax

"The resistance from the wind helps me turn"


----------



## Kijima

timmytard said:


> I just took a couple vids the other day.
> I noticed that I use my trailing hand to help me turn toeside.
> I've been going sofa king fast lately that if I just push my back hand out away from my body just a little bit, the resistance from the wind helps me turn.
> I had no idea I was doing this.
> But I do it in almost all my videos.
> Only when I'm hauling ass though.
> 
> Hahaha that's my contribution lol
> 
> TT


Its good to have you in the house mate 🤟 🤟 🤟


----------



## Kijima

ZeMax said:


> "The resistance from the wind helps me turn"


He needs a rudder


----------



## Kijima

Ive been making good progress on my tall turns. Starting tall and finishing tall, only touching down for a moment at the apex of the turn where the forces are at their greatest. 
It feels much better than staying low between the turns and it must look good too because everyone is commenting about how relaxed my turns look. 
Im riding a more narrow 27cm waist with FF45/30 angles and I think that is helping me achieve the style. 
I start the heel turn standing tall, open my front knee, drive my back knee in close to the front knee, my back arm goes up and I focus on dropping my front shoulder. 
As the turn comes around, still with almost completely straight legs I bend at the waist and my butt hits the snow for a second then the forces of the turn lift me up naturally. It feels beautiful, easy and requires little energy. 
Then for the toe turn I pull my front knee in toward the back knee and with relatively straight legs I fall into the toe turn, again only touching down for a second before the forces of the turn pick me up with little effort again. 

The fall is what feels amazing, Ive known that for a long time now, fall with momentary time on the ground. 
If you stay low between turns you get a lot of time on the ground but no fall. 

These are two completey different styles of turns, my goal is now to get someone to do a follow cam video where I put down a few of both types of turns in the same run .


----------



## Scalpelman

Looking forward to seeing vids of that style.


----------



## MrDavey2Shoes

I think narrower boards make the “fall turn” easier or at least more intuitive. Since you’re using less movement it’s nice to have that skinny waist width as it makes the edge transition more of a pendulum. I was on my Nitro Team the other day, and while it was extremely restrictive on heelsides the skinny waist was refreshing on tall toeside turns.

I’m a size 8 and ride boards 157-159 though so waist width is often something I don’t need to worry about as far as toe overhang.


----------



## Snowdaddy

Kijima said:


> Its a big pow day in Japan and Im waiting to ride the steepest trees in Japan.
> 
> View attachment 157115


Very nice looking


----------



## Kijima

Scalpelman said:


> Looking forward to seeing vids of that style.


Im battling successive powder days again lol. Yesterday was legit big mountain pow surfing with no lift lines. Id love to show you guys around my haunts when travel becomes possible again.


----------



## supern00b

Kijima said:


> Im battling successive powder days again lol. Yesterday was legit big mountain pow surfing with no lift lines. Id love to show you guys around my haunts when travel becomes possible again.


Do you adjust binding angles and riding style for pow days?


----------



## Kijima

supern00b said:


> Do you adjust binding angles and riding style for pow days?


I do, Im riding a 30cm Taiyaki so my angles are more moderate but still FF. 
I just checked. Its FF39/12


----------



## Kijima

Well this binding wedge turned out to be a bad idea. I set it up at its maximum 8 degree setting and took it out for a few laps today, it completely stole my power to the back foot.
I could barely get any pressure down and my turns suffered badly as a result so off to the market it goes.
It was so bad it has me reconsidering the 2.5 degree canted footbeds in the katanas.


----------



## supern00b

@Kijima, I got 3 questions for you.

1. I'm having trouble with figuring out the timing of your hula hoop motion tutorial (aka helpful woodshop video) you have on Youtube. I've summarized the motions into 3 motions for both heel and toe sides: bend knees, squeeze (which i'm internalizing as a just being a more aggressive standing motion), hula to front (swing hips to initiate next turn). Could you summarize the timings using the below clocks for when during the carve to execute these motions? I'm goofy, so 12AM-6AM is heelside, and 12PM-6AM is toeside for me.











2. When you hula hoop to start a new turn going from heel to toeside, it appears to be that your hips are swinging from your rear foot toeside to your nose toeside, as illustrated in a) below. However, I did notice that your feet are still in the heelside position during this motion. Shouldn't the hula motion be more like b) below?










3. Finally, are you using any unweighting techniques during all of this? It seems like you're applying force to the board at all steps, maybe with the exception of when you hula hoop.


----------



## MrDavey2Shoes

@supern00b I think you’ve got a grasp on the hula hoop, but it’s always hard to articulate lol. Have you tried it yet? It feels more natural than it sounds. There’s a bit of unlearning involved here. Red pill blue pill kinda shit lol. Sorry I know I’m only being anecdotal...

@Kijima what are you going for with those? They almost remind me of the riser plates that used to come with Palmers.


----------



## supern00b

MrDavey2Shoes said:


> @supern00b I think you’ve got a grasp on the hula hoop, but it’s always hard to articulate lol. Have you tried it yet? It feels more natural than it sounds. There’s a bit of unlearning involved here. Red pill blue pill kinda shit lol. Sorry I know I’m only being anecdotal...


Nah haven't tried the hula hoop method; I'm hitting the slopes tomorrow so I wanna study this as much as I can before then.

The first and last time I tried using forward stance, I was applying duck stance techniques, and I fell a lot. To my credit, I used my knees to enter turns, but was unfortunately mainly flexing my ankles to try to engage the edge instead of using primarily hips and knees. Since I was flexing my ankles at an angle that was more parallel to the board instead of perpendicular, turns weren't engaging, and I ended up just straightlining it down the hill instead of going across the slope; that, coupled with me bending my knees meant i was barrelling down the fall line in the back seat, which led me to just wipe out. Trying to avoid that this time around!


----------



## Kijima

supern00b said:


> @Kijima, I got 3 questions for you.
> 
> 1. I'm having trouble with figuring out the timing of your hula hoop motion tutorial (aka helpful woodshop video) you have on Youtube. I've summarized the motions into 3 motions for both heel and toe sides: bend knees, squeeze (which i'm internalizing as a just being a more aggressive standing motion), hula to front (swing hips to initiate next turn). Could you summarize the timings using the below clocks for when during the carve to execute these motions? I'm goofy, so 12AM-6AM is heelside, and 12PM-6AM is toeside for me.
> 
> 
> View attachment 157360
> 
> 
> 2. When you hula hoop to start a new turn going from heel to toeside, it appears to be that your hips are swinging from your rear foot toeside to your nose toeside, as illustrated in a) below. However, I did notice that your feet are still in the heelside position during this motion. Shouldn't the hula motion be more like b) below?
> 
> View attachment 157361
> 
> 
> 3. Finally, are you using any unweighting techniques during all of this? It seems like you're applying force to the board at all steps, maybe with the exception of when you hula hoop.


The hula hoop is a tool, it teaches you to use your hips as the primary way of shifting your weight, it teaches you to get your weight inside the line that your board will take, it forces a nice weight distribution through your heel turn and pops you into your toe turn with a nice arched body shape. 

I actually use it in two ways, one is standing tall on run outs etc where its not steep enough to carve, hula hooping helps me generate speed and secondly in deep carves where I get low. 

I will come back and answer your question fully after riding today, Im going up to shiga kogen with my filming buddy today so hopefully I will come home with new pics and vids.


----------



## Kijima

MrDavey2Shoes said:


> @supern00b I think you’ve got a grasp on the hula hoop, but it’s always hard to articulate lol. Have you tried it yet? It feels more natural than it sounds. There’s a bit of unlearning involved here. Red pill blue pill kinda shit lol. Sorry I know I’m only being anecdotal...
> 
> @Kijima what are you going for with those? They almost remind me of the riser plates that used to come with Palmers.


I spoke with some carvers a few weeks back who were both using them so since I am trying every option I can think of I decided to give it a try but it worked against me. 
I learned something from it though.


----------



## Kijima

Well we have epic lift lines here today so filming is out of the question unfortunately. The place is packed.


----------



## Kijima

supern00b said:


> @Kijima, I got 3 questions for you.
> 
> 1. I'm having trouble with figuring out the timing of your hula hoop motion tutorial (aka helpful woodshop video) you have on Youtube. I've summarized the motions into 3 motions for both heel and toe sides: bend knees, squeeze (which i'm internalizing as a just being a more aggressive standing motion), hula to front (swing hips to initiate next turn). Could you summarize the timings using the below clocks for when during the carve to execute these motions? I'm goofy, so 12AM-6AM is heelside, and 12PM-6AM is toeside for me.
> 
> 
> View attachment 157360
> 
> 
> 2. When you hula hoop to start a new turn going from heel to toeside, it appears to be that your hips are swinging from your rear foot toeside to your nose toeside, as illustrated in a) below. However, I did notice that your feet are still in the heelside position during this motion. Shouldn't the hula motion be more like b) below?
> 
> View attachment 157361
> 
> 
> 3. Finally, are you using any unweighting techniques during all of this? It seems like you're applying force to the board at all steps, maybe with the exception of when you hula hoop.


Ok before I start on answering your questions I will just give you a run down on how the hula hoop came to be. I had worked out separate body positions for start, middle and end of the turn but when I put them all together it became apparent that it could be simplified further by just doing a hula hoop motion with your hips. If I did a hula hoop I was hitting all the right body positions of the heel turn at the right times and popping out of the heel turn behind my board (there's your unweighting for edge change) and falling into an arched position for toe turns which was and still is my goal.
So let's go back to the start, as always beginning with a heel turn at 12 o'clock. I'm doing this goofy for you, clockwise rotation.
Step 1. Travelling directly across the slope open your front knee as far as you can. This gets you forward and starts your upper body rotating correctly. In the last few days I have learned that dropping your inside shoulder and raising your rear arm is very beneficial as well at the same time as you open your front knee.
Step 2. Squat. I have also learned that driving your rear knee forward, close to your front knee is very beneficial at this point. It is now 3 o'clock and your board is pointing directly down the slope
Step 3. Squeeze. Push your board out in front of you as you finish the turn travelling directly across the slope. You should focus on keeping your head low as you straighten your front leg. Your front leg straightening is going to take the board with it, out from under you and you will achieve automatic rearward weighting and ultimately unweighting as you flip over to the toe edge at 6 o'clock

Now those 3 steps can all be put under the umbrella of a half hula hoop rotation starting at 12 o'clock and finishing at 6 o'clock for goofy.

Once you have done that you will find yourself almost catapulted onto your toe edge.
Step 4. Catch it on your front foot at 11 o'clock, that part from 6 o'clock to 11 o'clock happens in the blink of an eye.
So from 11 o'clock, feed it back to 6 o'clock throughout your toe turn achieving a soul arch position at 9 o'clock, then its back to step 1, open the front knee for your next heel turn.

On paper it looks like this with the heel turn being pink and the toe turn being blue.









If you are on the flats you can just do a normal rotation because the main point is to get your squat and your arch happening, front to back weighting on toe turns isn't so important here and there just isnt enough time to pull it off.


----------



## Kijima

I recently found these fleece lined rubber mitts, they are working out pretty well so far, nice and slippery and no signs of wear. I wear them with my usual merino wool liners so they never felt sweaty even theough they dont breathe, they were nice and warm last week in -8c too.


----------



## Kijima

Dorsiflexion at work, body weight is kept inside the line of the snowboard therefore it is all delivered to the toe edge. Suspension comes from the ankle/knee not from the knee/hip.
Stiff boots and high binding top straps limit dorsiflexion so are undesirable









Get your dorsiflex on for toe turns! Deliver all your weight to the inside edge.


----------



## Kijima

In this pic dorsiflexion is not being utilized, rather the knee/hip is used for suspension but the byproduct of that is weight stacked outside the board.


----------



## MrDavey2Shoes

All about the dorsiflection! (Still waiting on the official Kijima snowboards shirt) The lower you go the more it matters. Especially on a deck with a moderate waist. But I don’t like a soft boot.


----------



## Kijima

MrDavey2Shoes said:


> All about the dorsiflection! (Still waiting on the official Kijima snowboards shirt) The lower you go the more it matters. Especially on a deck with a moderate waist. But I don’t like a soft boot.


Yes the lower you go the more it matters. 
First reason is obviously to stack your weight as shown but the second reason is to moderate your board angle when laying it down.


----------



## supern00b

Kijima said:


> Dorsiflexion at work, body weight is kept inside the line of the snowboard therefore it is all delivered to the toe edge. Suspension comes from the ankle/knee not from the knee/hip.
> Stiff boots and high binding top straps limit dorsiflexion so are undesirable
> View attachment 157425
> 
> 
> Get your dorsiflex on for toe turns! Deliver all your weight to the inside edge.
> View attachment 157426


Wouldn't pushing your toes into the snow provide more edge angle than dorsiflexion?


----------



## Kijima

supern00b said:


> Wouldn't pushing your toes into the snow provide more edge angle than dorsiflexion?


Pushing your toes is hard work and there just isn't much leverage available down close to the board. 
Your upper body is where most of your weight is, so if you get good at stacking that weight inside your edge you can achieve 100x greater pressure than you ever could trying to push down with your toes at much lower energy expenditure. That means you can be locked on edge casually rather than working hard for it.


----------



## MrDavey2Shoes

Kijima said:


> Yes the lower you go the more it matters.
> First reason is obviously to stack your weight as shown but the second reason is to moderate your board angle when laying it down.


Pondering a question about dorisflexion but I can’t quite articulate it right now lol.


----------



## Scalpelman

Kijima said:


> Dorsiflexion at work, body weight is kept inside the line of the snowboard therefore it is all delivered to the toe edge. Suspension comes from the ankle/knee not from the knee/hip.
> Stiff boots and high binding top straps limit dorsiflexion so are undesirable
> View attachment 157425
> 
> 
> Get your dorsiflex on for toe turns! Deliver all your weight to the inside edge.
> View attachment 157426


Yes this is the stance. And DAMN that’s some good looking piste. Lay out for days!!!!


----------



## MrDavey2Shoes

@Kijima ok I got it my thoughts together, turns out it was a simple question. Are you using dorsiflextion to stack or is your proper stacking creating the dorsiflection. Personally I find the second to be true.

I tried two different spellings to get the autocorrect to go away...neither worked lol


----------



## Kijima

MrDavey2Shoes said:


> @Kijima ok I got it my thoughts together, turns out it was a simple question. Are you using dorsiflextion to stack or is your proper stacking creating the dorsiflection. Personally I find the second to be true.
> 
> I tried two different spellings to get the autocorrect to go away...neither worked lol


I think the latter is true for me too, in that pic i was certainly not conscious of it but when I saw the pic there it was. I did train my body to do it over summer and I obviously know I need it in my riding so it's no fluke that I find myself doing it. 
Also my boots are set up to allow for it which is kind of important. Just like setting up your stance angles mechanically allows or disallows certain body movements, setting up your boots does too, I really enjoy using a strapin strap above my ankle and leaving the upper boa a little looser


----------



## MrDavey2Shoes

I’ll do the same with my boots in good/predictable snow. But on lumpy dust on crust days I usually need a little more support and I’ll crank them down more. The straps look interesting, better heel hold?


----------



## Kijima

MrDavey2Shoes said:


> I’ll do the same with my boots in good/predictable snow. But on lumpy dust on crust days I usually need a little more support and I’ll crank them down more. The straps look interesting, better heel hold?


Well before the straps my heel hold was achieved by cranking the top boa very tightly, now I can have my top boa anywhere I like it and never worry about my foot swimming around in my boot. 
I'll never go back.


----------



## supern00b

Kijima said:


> Well before the straps my heel hold was achieved by cranking the top boa very tightly, now I can have my top boa anywhere I like it and never worry about my foot swimming around in my boot.
> I'll never go back.


Wait, what's going on with your straps?


----------



## Kijima

supern00b said:


> Wait, what's going on with your straps?


Im running one of these directly above my ankle.


----------



## MrDavey2Shoes

Very interesting video on Koruas Instagram right now. A lot of what is going on in here...


----------



## WigMar

I've had a breakthrough in the last few days. Someone posted a photo of a noob falling down in an excellent heel side turn pose. If I didn't know better, I'd have said he was shredding heelsides harder then me. I decided I had to try falling down too, and that was the missing piece of my carving puzzle! I was just lacking a certain level of commitment in my initiations. Now I'm touching snow easily on toes and heels while just flying. 

I've been throwing myself at the snow, and the turn comes around and holds me up off of the ground. Carving has become more about playing with gravity than trying to control or turn my board. I'm finally getting the board as a trailer reference. 

Instead of bearing weight like a tripod, my hands have become more like feelers telling me how hard to lay into the turn. They're usually just skimming the surface while my board rips a trench. I think it's all about balance. 

I'm grateful to this thread and all of its participants. 

STOKED!


----------



## supern00b

WigMar said:


> I've had a breakthrough in the last few days. Someone posted a photo of a noob falling down in an excellent heel side turn pose. If I didn't know better, I'd have said he was shredding heelsides harder then me. I decided I had to try falling down too, and that was the missing piece of my carving puzzle! I was just lacking a certain level of commitment in my initiations. Now I'm touching snow easily on toes and heels while just flying.
> 
> I've been throwing myself at the snow, and the turn comes around and holds me up off of the ground. Carving has become more about playing with gravity than trying to control or turn my board. I'm finally getting the board as a trailer reference.
> 
> Instead of bearing weight like a tripod, my hands have become more like feelers telling me how hard to lay into the turn. They're usually just skimming the surface while my board rips a trench. I think it's all about balance.
> 
> I'm grateful to this thread and all of its participants.
> 
> STOKED!


Super glad to hear that; my plan was to work on the same exact thing the next time I hit the slopes.


----------



## MrDavey2Shoes

Ugh...I’ve been having trouble with that part.

can you share the picture?


----------



## ridethecliche

Now that I have a go pro, I have plenty of pictures of me falling. Are you asking me to share them?


----------



## WigMar

@SushiLover posted it a little while ago...


----------



## Kijima

WigMar said:


> I've had a breakthrough in the last few days. Someone posted a photo of a noob falling down in an excellent heel side turn pose. If I didn't know better, I'd have said he was shredding heelsides harder then me. I decided I had to try falling down too, and that was the missing piece of my carving puzzle! I was just lacking a certain level of commitment in my initiations. Now I'm touching snow easily on toes and heels while just flying.
> 
> I've been throwing myself at the snow, and the turn comes around and holds me up off of the ground. Carving has become more about playing with gravity than trying to control or turn my board. I'm finally getting the board as a trailer reference.
> 
> Instead of bearing weight like a tripod, my hands have become more like feelers telling me how hard to lay into the turn. They're usually just skimming the surface while my board rips a trench. I think it's all about balance.
> 
> I'm grateful to this thread and all of its participants.
> 
> STOKED!


That's so awesome to hear man!


----------



## Kijima




----------



## Kijima

The muscle memories that get us through each turn we do on a snowboard are stubborn bitches.


----------



## ridethecliche

I'm going to try not to take the advice too literally. Throwing myself on the mountain, whether on purpose or by mistake, seems to really hurt.


----------



## Hatto

I have been practicing in the loungeroom much to the laughter of the misses, now i just need snow to try it all out. 
And yes Kijima, you will be giving me private lessons while i demo a kiji stick


----------



## Kijima

Go easy on the shagpile carpet Hatto


----------



## supern00b

His hips don't lie


----------



## MrDavey2Shoes

I will only listen to lil' john today. Might help.


----------



## supern00b

that one song has some good cues to carve to right?

toeside turns: awww skeet skeet skeet skeet skeet skeet skeet skeet 
heelside turns: til the sweat drop down my balls


----------



## Hatto

Kijima said:


> Go easy on the shagpile carpet Hatto


The shagpile is ok, it's the Cow hide rug that makes me catch an edge


----------



## MrDavey2Shoes

supern00b said:


> that one song has some good cues to carve to right?
> 
> toeside turns: awww skeet skeet skeet skeet skeet skeet skeet skeet
> heelside turns: til the sweat drop down my balls


I want you to know that because of this I have a new on piste mantra.


----------



## ridethecliche

Humor me for a minute...
We talk sometimes about boards washing out and just not being designed with carving etc in mind right?
So, just so I'm clear... If one can do a solid toeside carve on a board and the heelsides wash out constantly, then it's 100% a technique or board setup thing right? Because if the board isn't asym, then there shouldn't be anything related to the design of the board that would make heelside carves unattainable or whatnot, yes?

I said you'd have to humor me!
🙃


----------



## Kijima

ridethecliche said:


> Humor me for a minute...
> We talk sometimes about boards washing out and just not being designed with carving etc in mind right?
> So, just so I'm clear... If one can do a solid toeside carve on a board and the heelsides wash out constantly, then it's 100% a technique or board setup thing right? Because if the board isn't asym, then there shouldn't be anything related to the design of the board that would make heelside carves unattainable or whatnot, yes?
> 
> I said you'd have to humor me!
> 🙃


Boards dont wash out, riders do


----------



## ridethecliche

I've got some work to do. Pretty stoked though. Didn't think I'd be able to do an actual solid carve in my 3rd season of riding. Have the basics of the toe-side down, now just gotta get the heel side workable. 

Too bad the days here are numbers. Slush season will make things a bit difficult re carving.


----------



## Kijima

ridethecliche said:


> I've got some work to do. Pretty stoked though. Didn't think I'd be able to do an actual solid carve in my 3rd season of riding. Have the basics of the toe-side down, now just gotta get the heel side workable.
> 
> Too bad the days here are numbers. Slush season will make things a bit difficult re carving.


Slush season mornings are great for carving man, dont quit till the lifts stop spinning. 
Get yourself a board thats 2cm wider than normal for slush carving


----------



## ridethecliche

Kijima said:


> Slush season mornings are great for carving man, dont quit till the lifts stop spinning.
> Get yourself a board thats 2cm wider than normal for slush carving


2 CM!!!?!?!?!?!?!

We'll see how it goes. I just really wanted to figure out heelside carves on this one particular board, but looks like it's going to have to wait till next season!


----------



## MrDavey2Shoes

Kijima said:


> Boards dont wash out, riders do


dropping truth bombs lol

@ridethecliche the Spam will carve slush nicely. Don’t let the fact that it isn’t volume shifted fool you Into thinking it’s not a party board!


----------



## ridethecliche

MrDavey2Shoes said:


> dropping truth bombs lol
> 
> @ridethecliche the Spam will carve slush nicely. Don’t let the fact that it isn’t volume shifted fool you Into thinking it’s not a party board!


YOU SPILLED THE BEANS!

Also, the ww is almost a full cm wider than the yup!


----------



## supern00b

noooo not the beans


----------



## ridethecliche

I mean the spam.

He spilled the spam!

At this point, I don't even know if it's ever going to show up. It's been stuck where it was shipped from for a week. My board is already with the guy. We're both scratching our heads about it and I just submitted something to usps but i digress.


----------



## Kijima

ridethecliche said:


> 2 CM!!!?!?!?!?!?!
> 
> We'll see how it goes. I just really wanted to figure out heelside carves on this one particular board, but looks like it's going to have to wait till next season!


Sometimes just swapping boards can help you break through to the next stage, don't fear it. 
Im just about to do a spring sale actually, even though its dumping snow outside again lol. 
All boards $550 paypal plus shipping, lots of 28 and 30cm available.


----------



## ridethecliche

Kijima said:


> Sometimes just swapping boards can help you break through to the next stage, don't fear it.
> Im just about to do a spring sale actually, even though its dumping snow outside again lol.
> All boards $550 paypal plus shipping, lots of 28 and 30cm available.


Honestly board width isn't an issue for me at a sz 8 boot. At 269, my korua stealth is about the widest I'd want to go!

Will def keep in mind your point point re: trying a different board for a bit before coming back to the other one!


----------



## Kijima

ridethecliche said:


> Honestly board width isn't an issue for me at a sz 8 boot. At 269, my korua stealth is about the widest I'd want to go!
> 
> Will def keep in mind your point point re: trying a different board for a bit before coming back to the other one!


If you start booting out in slush just put a bit more angle on your bindings


----------



## wrathfuldeity

ridethecliche said:


> Humor me for a minute...
> We talk sometimes about boards washing out and just not being designed with carving etc in mind right?
> So, just so I'm clear... If one can do a solid toeside carve on a board and the heelsides wash out constantly, then it's 100% a technique or board setup thing right? Because if the board isn't asym, then there shouldn't be anything related to the design of the board that would make heelside carves unattainable or whatnot, yes?
> 
> I said you'd have to humor me!
> 🙃


Its technique, more specifically body positioning. With toeside, you are probably rotated open and looking downhill. While as with heelside, you are more closed and already looking downhill and thus are more transverse of the of the fall line. Thereby with the board being more transverse of gravity, you will have a tendency to washout.

So you can do one or more several things:
Don't get too transverse and initiate back towards toeside sooner....mostly a mental aggression and timing thing.
Keep your leading shoulder within 45 degrees of the fall line...both on toe and heel side.
Notice and pay attention to your back foot pressure and aft body position differences between toe and heel side carves.
Notice the slope steepness and snow conditions and adjust accordingly. 
There are probably some other things that I'm not thinking of at the moment.


----------



## Kijima

When I wash out it's always because I didn't get inside the line my board was going to take.
In each turn there is a balance point that we are trying to find, you can either be right on it, inside it or outside it. Most snowboarders never get inside that point especially in heel turns so their body mass is always pulling them away from the turn and a washout occurs. 
If you put too much mass inside the arc you will be pulled down to the piste, too little and you are pulled away from the piste, that's your washout right there because gravity has taken control of your body mass and is unweighting your inside edge.


----------



## Kijima

Once again I will say stop thinking about your board or you are thinking about this problem backwards, when you get your body in the right place your board will lock itself on edge. 
Most snowboarders do heel turns in the red zone and are constantly being pulled away from the slope and weighting the outside edge as a result. 
We need to find the balance point, or slightly past it which is the blue zone, when you are in the blue zone you are heavily weighting the inside edge so you have solved your washing out problem and now have a new, more fun problem of keeping yourself off the slope.
New problems = progression.


----------



## ridethecliche

Thanks for this!

The only reason I was thinking about the board was because it felt like the nose would fold on me. 

I guess that's more of a result of the issue rather than a cause of it.

Start to lose traction in the back foot
👉
Weight shifts relatively forward
👉
Too much weight on nose
👉
Nose folds. 

The nose folding and washout were the end result not the cause. Watching vids of myself is readily apparent how much I'm hinging at my waist!


----------



## Kijima

Stick man inside the balance point toe turn. 









Stick man inside the balance point heel side


----------



## Kijima

ridethecliche said:


> Thanks for this!
> 
> The only reason I was thinking about the board was because it felt like the nose would fold on me.
> 
> I guess that's more of a result of the issue rather than a cause of it.
> 
> Start to lose traction in the back foot
> 👉
> Weight shifts relatively forward
> 👉
> Too much weight on nose
> 👉
> Nose folds.
> 
> The nose folding and washout were the end result not the cause. Watching vids of myself is readily apparent how much I'm hinging at my waist!


The easiest way to begin your journey to the inside for heel turns is to squat heavily early in the turn. You will actually go past the blue zone but that is a step in the right direction. 

Please post a screenshot if you have one. I see lots of people getting close to the balance point but being hindered by something like lack of upper body rotation.


----------



## ridethecliche

I'll upload videos and post them when I get a chance. I have plenty of heelside wipeouts, don't worry.

Also after talking to @MrDavey2Shoes im pretty sure I'm initiating heelside turns too late and need to start when I'm about perpendicular to the fall line instead of trying to shift weight over just as I start parallel to the fall line.


----------



## supern00b

In a forward stance, how do you squat towards the center of the carve? My ass keeps moving towards the tail of the board instead...


----------



## Kijima

Yeah we all have to cross that bridge man ✌ 
When you travel across the slope you create moments where there forces of the turn are quite low and you use these low pressure moments to get your body positions set up correctly so that when the high pressure moment comes you are sitting pretty on a locked edge.


----------



## Kijima

supern00b said:


> In a forward stance, how do you squat towards the center of the carve? My ass keeps moving towards the tail of the board instead...


That's right FF stance shifts your weight back as you squat but that's a good thing.
Im not sure where you are at with your heel turns but the answer is probably to get more forward at the start of your turn.


----------



## supern00b

Kijima said:


> That's right FF stance shifts your weight back as you squat but that's a good thing.
> Im not sure where you are at with your heel turns but the answer is probably to get more forward at the start of your turn.


More forward?? Like, opening my front knee up for a longer period of time?


----------



## Kijima

supern00b said:


> More forward?? Like, opening my front knee up for a longer period of time?


Yeah heel turns are very front heavy things, everyone I have coached into better heel turns always get a shock at how far forward they find themselves. But you cannot get forward enough without the counter rotation at the start of the turn, it's critical.


----------



## WigMar

Yeah, I was really surprised at how far forward heel turns start too. When I'm entering the turn, it feels like I'm reaching out past the nose with my leading hand. Squatting down through the end of the turn gets your weight back over the tail again.


----------



## ridethecliche

This is a carving video right?


----------



## Kijima

ridethecliche said:


> This is a carving video right?


Dude I had the same crash last sunday and ended up on my back too. I still can't walk properly from it 
The first thing I did after I got back on my board was try to recreate the situation. I found that my nose was flopping around and fixed it by pulling my front knee in which forced the sidecut to engage better.


----------



## Kijima

Body mass inside the board = weighting the inside edge. 









Body mass outside the board = weighting the outside edge


----------



## MrDavey2Shoes

I think I’m at a point where I either need to commit to more drastic forward angles or just be happy with where my heelsides are at. I’m currently at 27/9 and I can’t bring my upper body around enough without disengaging the back foot. Human anatomy and all that...

I can touch the snow but it’s not occurring as a result of the turn. I’m trying to touch the snow to get myself lower. I’m also touching in front of me let’s say about 45 degrees more toward the nose than @Kijima in the photo above. Which is not the desired outcome. What is really frustrating is that my heelside turns are nearly identical in shape to my toesides, so I’ve got them dialed but I don’t feel stylin’


----------



## supern00b

Kijima said:


> Body mass inside the board = weighting the inside edge.
> View attachment 157521
> 
> 
> Body mass outside the board = weighting the outside edge
> View attachment 157522


Lol that second pic is what moosejaw used in a recent Instagram ad


----------



## Kijima

MrDavey2Shoes said:


> I think I’m at a point where I either need to commit to more drastic forward angles or just be happy with where my heelsides are at. I’m currently at 27/9 and I can’t bring my upper body around enough without disengaging the back foot. Human anatomy and all that...
> 
> I can touch the snow but it’s not occurring as a result of the turn. I’m trying to touch the snow to get myself lower. I’m also touching in front of me let’s say about 45 degrees more toward the nose than @Kijima in the photo above. Which is not the desired outcome. What is really frustrating is that my heelside turns are nearly identical in shape to my toesides, so I’ve got them dialed but I don’t feel stylin’


Turn it, learn it, then turn it back as far as you can


----------



## Kijima

supern00b said:


> Lol that second pic is what moosejaw used in a recent Instagram ad


One mans trash is anothers treasure


----------



## MrDavey2Shoes

Going 35/15 today, see how that goes!


----------



## t21

ridethecliche said:


> This is a carving video right?


Amazing how he switched hand with his go-pro like he'd done that many times over


----------



## ridethecliche

t21 said:


> Amazing how he switched hand with his go-pro like he'd done that many times over


Can't say I've switched hands many times before, but I'm certainly not new to the ass over teakettle!


----------



## ridethecliche

@Kijima

The washout I was talking about is at the end of this video.






And then this is something from the other day.






What I'm noticing is:

A) Body position not stacked. I.e. hinging with back a bit. Need to consciously work on this when I'm out next time.
B) Not going across the mountain enough. I keep ending my turn and starting the next one instead of switching edges while going perpendicular to the fall line. That should also help in slowing things down a bit and tightening up the turn because I'm starting the turn on edge instead of trying to change edges and turn all at the same time.


----------



## ridethecliche

And lastly, here's my GF putting my body positioning to shame.
@WigMar and @jxs1984 , she's on the 148 tailgunner. I think you'd both asked at some point. I set it up double positive for her. I think it's +3 or +6 in the back. Front was maybe 21 or 24.


----------



## Kijima

@ridethecliche 
You should practice single turns that finish across the slope. Your momentum is dragging you down hill, you gotta break that pattern up to get to the next stage. 
So big toe turns that finish up hill. Stop. Then big heel turns. Stop etc.


----------



## ridethecliche

Kijima said:


> @ridethecliche
> You should practice single turns that finish across the slope. Your momentum is dragging you down hill, you gotta break that pattern up to get to the next stage.
> So big toe turns that finish up hill. Stop. Then big heel turns. Stop etc.


Yup. Those were going to be the drills I did next time. 
🤘🤘🤘


----------



## Scalpelman

I think that it’s easier to do toeside turns because it’s just a much more comfortable position to place pressure on your toes. It’s much more conducive to balancing your weight fore and aft. For a backside you don’t have the tactile advantage of your toes which give instantaneous feedback to your brain. On heelside you have more power but it’s more brute strength. Less finesse. In addition it’s a “blind” turn. So you really need to emphasize the twist of the torso forward. And focus on rotation of the lead shoulder to the piste. This forces you to weight the nose and drive through the turn. Thanks @Kijima ;


----------



## Kijima

Scalpelman said:


> I think that it’s easier to do toeside turns because it’s just a much more comfortable position to place pressure on your toes. It’s much more conducive to balancing your weight fore and aft. For a backside you don’t have the tactile advantage of your toes which give instantaneous feedback to your brain. On heelside you have more power but it’s more brute strength. Less finesse. In addition it’s a “blind” turn. So you really need to emphasize the twist of the torso forward. And focus on rotation of the lead shoulder to the piste. This forces you to weight the nose and drive through the turn. Thanks @Kijima ;


I totally agree with you ✌ 
Heel turns are harder to learn but more rewarding when you pull off a clean one, and once you work them out they actually become easier than toe turns. 

Working them out has kept me fairly engaged with life over the last few years


----------



## supern00b

Is there a cue/heuristic you guys recommend I use when turning my torso during heelside turns? e.g. reaching for an imaginary bar upslope behind me, etc.

The further I rotate my torso and bend my knees, the more it feels like I'm about to fall over....should I be focusing on the timing of the motion rather than getting twisted and low as quickly as possible? It seems like once I'm in the actual turn, my momentum would keep me from falling on my ass, but if I get low without actually being in the carve, I'd just fall on my ass. Not sure if any of this is coherent.


----------



## Kijima

supern00b said:


> Is there a cue/heuristic you guys recommend I use when turning my torso during heelside turns? e.g. reaching for an imaginary bar upslope behind me, etc.
> 
> The further I rotate my torso and bend my knees, the more it feels like I'm about to fall over....should I be focusing on the timing of the motion rather than getting twisted and low as quickly as possible? It seems like once I'm in the actual turn, my momentum would keep me from falling on my ass, but if I get low without actually being in the carve, I'd just fall on my ass. Not sure if any of this is coherent.


It's perfectly coherent, and yeah you have to find the balance point as you are discovering. 
Get your work done early in your turns and then let your body fall. You can either fall inside the balance point or be pulled away from it, choose the first option. Spend time on the ground, get familiar with how that feels and start working back to the balance point.


----------



## MrDavey2Shoes

Today was total boiler plate. I was hoping the temps would keep the thaw nice and slushy but that’s now how she goes sometimes. Borderline impossible to set edges. Anyway here’s a pic of my progress:


----------



## Kijima

MrDavey2Shoes said:


> Today was total boiler plate. I was hoping the temps would keep the thaw nice and slushy but that’s now how she goes sometimes. Borderline impossible to set edges. Anyway here’s a pic of my progress:
> View attachment 157567


      
I just bought 2 pair of second hand bibs, $100 each.


----------



## Kijima

@MrDavey2Shoes 
Marine vinyl patching


----------



## ridethecliche

MrDavey2Shoes said:


> Today was total boiler plate. I was hoping the temps would keep the thaw nice and slushy but that’s now how she goes sometimes. Borderline impossible to set edges. Anyway here’s a pic of my progress:
> View attachment 157567


"Hey hun, can you take a picture of my bum for my internet palz?"


----------



## ridethecliche

Kijima said:


> @MrDavey2Shoes
> Marine vinyl patching
> View attachment 157575


Nice princess sticker collection. I hope you put some on the vinyl!


----------



## WigMar

Kijima said:


> @MrDavey2Shoes
> Marine vinyl patching
> View attachment 157575


I've been thinking about doing the same. My pants are almost as bad as @MrDavey2Shoes. Spending time on your butt is definitely part of it. What type of adhesive are you using? I was thinking about e6000, just because I've got some around.


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## Kijima

Im using this but Im not sure you will find the same one at your local store lol. 
Any old contact glue will work.


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## Kijima

I put a pillow in the ass of the bibs to give some shape and now Im bonding the vinyl down.


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## WigMar

Ahh, good old g17z!


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## Kijima

WigMar said:


> Ahh, good old g17z!


ボンド aka bondo aka glue


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## Kijima

Pretty happy with the bond


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## MrDavey2Shoes

Is that material stiff is it pliable to your movements?


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## wrathfuldeity

MrDavey2Shoes said:


> Is that material stiff is it pliable to your movements?


It's fairly pliable, its canvas weight with vinyl coating. I have a friend that could sew up some hot pink or lime green shorts you could wear over your pants.


----------



## supern00b

MrDavey2Shoes said:


> Today was total boiler plate. I was hoping the temps would keep the thaw nice and slushy but that’s now how she goes sometimes. Borderline impossible to set edges. Anyway here’s a pic of my progress:
> View attachment 157567


So uhh, do you have a Patreon?


----------



## supern00b

Kijima said:


> I put a pillow in the ass of the bibs to give some shape and now Im bonding the vinyl down.
> View attachment 157577


I read this as "I put a pillow in the bibs so it looks like I have a juicy ass when I ride". 

I'm dumb


----------



## ridethecliche

supern00b said:


> I read this as "I put a pillow in the bibs so it looks like I have a juicy ass when I ride".
> 
> I'm dumb



Thats what the stickers are for!


----------



## MrDavey2Shoes

wrathfuldeity said:


> It's fairly pliable, its canvas weight with vinyl coating. I have a friend that could sew up some hot pink or lime green shorts you could wear over your pants.


I’m actually going to give this serious consideration. The subsequent raditude could be off the charts!


----------



## ridethecliche

I see a market for the asses of all the assless chaps!


----------



## Aracan

To whom it may concern:








Hank's Back Story


Hank's Back Story is the one hundred-third episode of King of the Hill. It was first aired on May 6, 2001. The episode was written by Alan R. Cohen and Alan Freedland, and directed by Cyndi Tang-Loveland. Hank, Bill and Boomhauer are drinking in the alley and Bill mentions that the mail came a...




kingofthehill.fandom.com


----------



## Masterblaster

Some good tips in the last bit of this thread on initiating turns front side the backside one question I have is how do you initiate the hillside turn and not cause the board to bounce. is it more weight on the front foot or the back foot that causes this it seems like to me traveling fast and putting the backside edge in too far around causes the bounce ?


----------



## Kijima

Masterblaster said:


> Some good tips in the last bit of this thread on initiating turns front side the backside one question I have is how do you initiate the hillside turn and not cause the board to bounce. is it more weight on the front foot or the back foot that causes this it seems like to me traveling fast and putting the backside edge in too far around causes the bounce ?


A board will bounce or chatter where there is a lack of weight holding it down. If you get chatter at the front that means your board needed a bit more weight over the front. If you react quickly you can get the feedback (chattering) and react by shifting your weight to stop it


----------



## Masterblaster

It’s not just the front that chatters. It’s the whole board. I’m on typical groomed Corduroy slopes that are a bit hard with some loose powder here in there maybe it’s the way I have the bindings set up I don’t really know much about that I’ll post a picture of the board shortly


----------



## WigMar

I'll bet either the front or the rear is chattering worse, even if the whole board is chattering. Just today I was using chatter to fine tune my fore-aft weighting. I had my weight too far forward towards the end of heelside turns, and there was some chatter. Shifting my weight rearwards turned the chatter into grip.


----------



## Masterblaster

Yea I felt the same thing. I’m trying to stay forward like I ski. But when I force my self further back it’s unnatural feeling but seems to smooth it out. Chatter is a bad description. My whole board bounces when this happens. Too far sideways on heel side turns. My board has a strange shape in the middle too. It’s 10 year old t rice lib tech. With about 2 hours on it lol. 157. I’m 5.10 180 lbs


----------



## Masterblaster




----------



## Masterblaster




----------



## Kijima

Masterblaster said:


> It’s not just the front that chatters. It’s the whole board. I’m on typical groomed Corduroy slopes that are a bit hard with some loose powder here in there maybe it’s the way I have the bindings set up I don’t really know much about that I’ll post a picture of the board shortly


Lets go back to basics next time you ride. Do single turns that finish up hill and come to a stop. You should be able to make a single track in the snow like that before you go to the next step which is linking the turns together.


----------



## BoardieK

Masterblaster said:


> Yea I felt the same thing. I’m trying to stay forward like I ski. But when I force my self further back it’s unnatural feeling but seems to smooth it out. Chatter is a bad description. My whole board bounces when this happens. Too far sideways on heel side turns. My board has a strange shape in the middle too. It’s 10 year old t rice lib tech. With about 2 hours on it lol. 157. I’m 5.10 180 lbs
> View attachment 157606


I don't think you are carving yet so the techniques in this thread aren't applicable. The chattering you describe on hard corduroy is normal for novice board riders when side slipping, your board is probably making a lot of noise too?


----------



## Masterblaster

Chatter tends to happen first run of day and sometimes after whole day of riding when I’m tired. Just can’t feel how much too far I’m bringing the heel side turn that causes it. I’m carving ok on blue stuff and can link turns with my hands behind me ok. But when on the steeps I have to steer from the back and pivot on the front. Getting better at riding in traffic.


----------



## Kijima

Masterblaster said:


> Chatter tends to happen first run of day and sometimes after whole day of riding when I’m tired. Just can’t feel how much too far I’m bringing the heel side turn that causes it. I’m carving ok on blue stuff and can link turns with my hands behind me ok. But when on the steeps I have to steer from the back and pivot on the front. Getting better at riding in traffic.


That sounds like giraffe leg syndrome. First run of the day your muscles aren't warmed up and at the end of the day you are tired so you get more lazy. I bet at the moment of chatter if you dropped your head height down the chatter would be reduced.


----------



## Scalpelman

The dreaded giraffe leg syndrome.


----------



## Masterblaster

That’s a strange name for it lol. What’s that mean wobbly legs ?


----------



## Kijima

Masterblaster said:


> That’s a strange name for it lol. What’s that mean wobbly legs ?


Stiff straight legs ✌ ✌ ✌


----------



## Masterblaster

I do ride a little stiff first couple runs. With practice hope that fades away. First steep run in traffic always makes me nervous


----------



## WigMar

Try to get lower and looser when you're nervous or things start not going well. It goes against instinct, but it'll save you. Giraffes are terrible snowboarders. 

If I'm headed into a sketchy line, I'll take a few deep breaths and make myself relax as much as possible. It's good to scare yourself, but do it with a calm center.


----------



## t21

I'd normally do my first couple of runs on the green zone to loosen my old joints by doing small carve turns, then proceed to what my intentions are for the rest of the day


----------



## Masterblaster

Lol me too. A few easy slopes to get loose. I’m 50 and don’t want to eat it early. I boarded 9 hours the last day out and felt it in the calves badly. Looking for softer bindings now. Flow bindings don’t work well for long day


----------



## Kijima

Masterblaster said:


> Lol me too. A few easy slopes to get loose. I’m 50 and don’t want to eat it early. I boarded 9 hours the last day out and felt it in the calves badly. Looking for softer bindings now. Flow bindings don’t work well for long day


Wow 9 hours, that's a marathon man 
I'm the opposite, I warm up before the lift starts running at hit that fresh piste hard. My first run of the day is often my best run, fresh cord is hypnotic, high speed meditation.


----------



## Masterblaster

After long days I’m never up first but hit slopes about 10 and ride till 9 at night with hour lunch. It will wear ya out. I mix it up with sking and boarding. Thinking on getting some new genesis bindings to be a bit more easy on calf muscle


----------



## wrathfuldeity

Esteemed fellows of the carve,

Yesterday had alot of fun blasting firmed packed groomers that soffened up a tad during the day. I have some questions...but don't quite know what they are. So after watching the vid posted below, I gave it a try. Certainly the lowest I've ever gotten...so the questions:

My front leg was burning and pretty much toast by noon...is that normal?

Going in to toeside, where should my leading and trailing hands/arms be? I tried reaching out with my trailing hand but did not want to do the butt in the air thing. There were a few times it was like my nose was pretty close to the ground and was looking down the corduroy...where all you see are the grooves in the corduroy while flying along (pretty cool perspective) 

And coming out of toeside...something did not quite feel right...there was a bit of a wobble or catch and I was unsure of how much weight/pressure to put on my back leg how much and when? Should I be powering off the back leg?

The other thing about coming out of toeside, it did not feel like i was standing up, but doing more of a cross under edge transition. If I did not get so low, I could easily stand up and do the normal cross over carve transition...but it felt really slow and weak....verses quick and powerful.

Where as everything heelside felt easy getting in, sitting and come out fairly smooth and with ease.

Last ? How fast should I be going? It seemed like I could not get nor keep enough speed...even though pretty sure I was doing at least 45+mph/72kph on a well known groomer that I've confidently hit 60mph/100kph.

Anyway it was a fun day, felt super in control and stable while mach'n. I wish I had a vid...but lapping solo the whole day.

Any advice is much appreciated!

[갑툭팁#42] 외경과 프레스 같이 사용하기 - YouTube


----------



## Kijima

wrathfuldeity said:


> Esteemed fellows of the carve,
> 
> Yesterday had alot of fun blasting firmed packed groomers that soffened up a tad during the day. I have some questions...but don't quite know what they are. So after watching the vid posted below, I gave it a try. Certainly the lowest I've ever gotten...so the questions:
> 
> My front leg was burning and pretty much toast by noon...is that normal?


Congrats man, it sounds like you put sone new muscles to work. 


wrathfuldeity said:


> Going in to toeside, where should my leading and trailing hands/arms be? I tried reaching out with my trailing hand but did not want to do the butt in the air thing. There were a few times it was like my nose was pretty close to the ground and was looking down the corduroy...where all you see are the grooves in the corduroy while flying along (pretty cool perspective)


This is subjective depending on the style you want to have. I do it in two different ways and get 2 different styles. 
1. Two hands down is much easier so it's the best way to get yourself down on the ground but it takes a certain quality of snow/grooming to do. You need a fast smooth surface to pull it off because this style puts a lot of weight on your hands and rear forearm. I just spent my morning doing this so much I was getting hot hands from the all the friction but it was loads and loads of fun. 
Something I notice about 2 hands down is that there is no upper body rotation so the board is not tortionally flexing, the nose can get grabby if you have too much weight on the front foot so be careful of the frontflip causing crash that can sneak up on you. 

2. The other way is to go in with upper body rotation as per the finish of your heel turn, so keeping your front hand away from the snow. 
This looks way more stylish in my opinion and it has some advantages that I am beginning to notice. One advantage is that by keeping your front shoulder open you keep a lot of pressure off your front toe which creates a toe up style tortional flex at the front. That opens up the radius allowing for a larger turn size. 
For me this style is much harder to achieve but it's the one I really really want. 






wrathfuldeity said:


> The other thing about coming out of toeside, it did not feel like i was standing up, but doing more of a cross under edge transition. If I did not get so low, I could easily stand up and do the normal cross over carve transition...but it felt really slow and weak....verses quick and powerful.


Coming out of a two hands down turn is definitely a stay low cross under turn and you kinda need to throw yourself straight into a lay down heel turn or it feels weird, like waiting for a bus as you exit. 




wrathfuldeity said:


> Where as everything heelside felt easy getting in, sitting and come out fairly smooth and with ease.






wrathfuldeity said:


> Last ? How fast should I be going? It seemed like I could not get nor keep enough speed...even though pretty sure I was doing at least 45+mph/72kph on a well known groomer that I've confidently hit 60mph/100kph.
> 
> Anyway it was a fun day, felt super in control and stable while mach'n. I wish I had a vid...but lapping solo the whole day.
> 
> Any advice is much appreciated!
> 
> [갑툭팁#42] 외경과 프레스 같이 사용하기 - YouTube


How fast depends on pitch and conditions. Today was fast and clean groomers for me and I was absolutely flying with less turn completion than normal allowing for the higher speed, but when conditions are less ideal I will complete the turns more and slow myself down a bit to maintain control.


----------



## Kijima

Today I achieved my goal of touching my hip on the snow in toe turns, I must have done it 20 times or more so the lift ticket earns its place on the refrigerator


----------



## WigMar

Kijima said:


> Today I achieved my goal of touching my hip on the snow in toe turns, I must have done it 20 times or more so the lift ticket earns its place on the refrigerator


That's so RAD! You're going to destroy the front of your pants now too. 



Kijima said:


> Something I notice about 2 hands down is that there is no upper body rotation so the board is not tortionally flexing, the nose can get grabby if you have too much weight on the front foot so be careful of the frontflip causing crash that can sneak up on you.


Very much this! I abandoned two hands down fairly early because I kept getting those violent nose grabs. It seemed to work better when my rear forearm was down, and my front hand was on the snow. Having two hands down as an option is kinda nice sometimes, like when you're coming into a corner too hot. Just remember to keep the weight off of the nose a bit!



Kijima said:


> How fast depends on pitch and conditions. Today was fast and clean groomers for me and I was absolutely flying with less turn completion than normal allowing for the higher speed, but when conditions are less ideal I will complete the turns more and slow myself down a bit to maintain control.


Yeah, controlling speed is in the turn's finish. I was pointing it uphill for quite awhile as I felt out the transitions. I've finally been finishing turns more downhill, and things are really connecting.


----------



## Kijima

WigMar said:


> That's so RAD! You're going to destroy the front of your pants now too.


Been doing that since I was a teenager


----------



## ridethecliche

Took it back to basics today and just practiced bending my knees for edge engagement and then extending to drive the turn. Might go back tomorrow morning to get a few more hours more in of the same.

Riding in pretty icy conditions had me developing some bad habits partially out of some fear of falling. How ironic that doing things this way just brings the grip home!

@WigMar we need some video!


----------



## WigMar

I'll try to get some clips before the season ends. I've started fine tuning. I'm really trying to hone in on the body movements that are productive and get rid of anything that isn't helping. I've noticed that knee rolls are more important than I thought, the hips really drive the bus, and the arms dictate a lot of style.

I've been springing out of toe turns, which seems to help with falling into the heel turn. The hula hoop feels good when you're unweighted.

My tracks are getting thinner and cleaner, but it looks like my toes and heels are still making contact. I've been increasing my binding angles to reduce this, and I've gotten up to 42, 30. I think I'm going to bump it up again to 45,33. I feel like this is getting up into hardboot territory. I might have to take @Kijima up on that spring sale and get a wide carver.


----------



## ridethecliche

A forum'er getting a Kijima board?


----------



## Kijima

Im not sure if there is a link or not, but I took the bindings off my 27cm Gerende Cutter carve board yesterday because a guy came to demo it and I put them straight onmy 30cm Taiyaki without changing the angles, so I gained an extra 3cm of clearance, then went out and had a breakthrough session.

Changing shit up really seems to snap you out of a plateau.


----------



## Kijima

WigMar said:


> I'm really trying to hone in on the body movements that are productive and get rid of anything that isn't helping. I've noticed that knee rolls are more important than I though.


This is where it's at. We can all jump up a few levels simply by becoming aware of our individual habits and dropping the unnecessary junk that's mixed up in them. 
Get better by refinement, discard the movements that don't serve you.


----------



## Kijima

Dropping my inside shoulder has been a recent revelation for me, when I took my rear hand and put it up in heel turns I noticed how effective dropping the inside one was. 
Then I noticed that entering my toe turns with counter rotated upper body allowed me to drop my inside shoulder through the toe turn which resulted in me being lower without bending at the waist.


----------



## Kijima

The setup has quite a bit of clearance.


----------



## WigMar

That's beautiful- I've been dreaming of clearances like that!


----------



## WigMar

Kijima said:


> Dropping my inside shoulder has been a recent revelation for me, when I took my rear hand and put it up in heel turns I noticed how effective dropping the inside one was.
> Then I noticed that entering my toe turns with counter rotated upper body allowed me to drop my inside shoulder through the toe turn which resulted in me being lower without bending at the waist.


That Stale video got me raising my outside arm. I like it on heelsides- I've been calling it the scorpion tail. On toesides it's more of a turning bird's wing. 

I also noticed it dropped my inside shoulder. I wasn't sure if that was good or bad, but it sure does feel good going into turns that way. I'll try keeping more counter rotation going into toe turns. Getting extended with low hips sounds good!


----------



## Kijima

Well that setup that worked so well in yesterdays +3c conditions was hard work in todays refreeze conditons. After 1 turn I knew I was on the wrong board for the day so I swapped out to the Gerende Cutter, moved to a lesser angle slope and worked on my tall heel turns, making tracks that looked like puzzle pieces. 



So short edges work well for soft conditions and high speed riding but when it's really firm more edge and less width is beneficial for sure 

And leaving pendulum swing tracks like this is lots of fun when you can't get your high speed on.


----------



## Scalpelman

Kijima said:


> Well that setup that worked so well in yesterdays +3c conditions was hard work in todays refreeze conditons. After 1 turn I knew I was on the wrong board for the day so I swapped out to the Gerende Cutter, moved to a lesser angle slope and worked on my tall heel turns, making tracks that looked like puzzle pieces.
> 
> 
> 
> So short edges work well for soft conditions and high speed riding but when it's really firm more edge and less width is beneficial for sure
> 
> And leaving pendulum swing tracks like this is lots of fun when you can't get your high speed on.
> 
> View attachment 157700


Do you switch to low angle piste or does the puzzle piece line act as your speed check? Ok


----------



## Paxford

@Kijima @WigMar that dropped/tucked shoulder has me thinking if I understand what you are doing correctly [emoji2369]

@Kijima are you tucking your shoulder at the end of your toe turn, when driving the board slightly (or more) uphill? In your pendulum drawing I think it’s a bit exaggerated to make it clear, but I’m guessing it’s the moment at which you are driving uphill toeside and tucking shoulder just before, during, and after switching edges to heelside. Are you also tucking shoulder heelside mid or end turn, or is that all open shoulder?

@WigMar couldn’t find the Stale video to check ... are you doing the wavy bird hand/dropping shoulder driving down the toeside line, more mid turn, or somewhere else like early or late in toe turns?


----------



## WigMar

Here's that Stale video. I've been thinking about dropping the inside shoulder into the turn, and rotating through the turn with the outside arm. Before this, I'd often been keeping my arms low, with my outside arm tucked behind my hip in toe turns.


----------



## BoardieK

I dunno, some of that arm up in the air stuff looks a bit contrived to me. Enjoyed the video though and I have to admit to occasionally hitting a fantastic spot with no one around and putting out BOTH arms and "flying". Woohoo.


----------



## Scalpelman

I think the arm in the air acts as a counterbalance too. I’m gonna give it a go.


----------



## ridethecliche

Woah, his board is actually more vertical during heelside carves!


----------



## Kijima

Scalpelman said:


> Do you switch to low angle piste or does the puzzle piece line act as your speed check? Ok


I did both because the snow was bulletproof, steeper terrain was hard to hold an edge on and the low angle stuff was so fast it enabled such over completed turn shapes.


----------



## Kijima

Paxford said:


> @Kijima @WigMar that dropped/tucked shoulder has me thinking if I understand what you are doing correctly [emoji2369]
> 
> @Kijima are you tucking your shoulder at the end of your toe turn, when driving the board slightly (or more) uphill? In your pendulum drawing I think it’s a bit exaggerated to make it clear, but I’m guessing it’s the moment at which you are driving uphill toeside and tucking shoulder just before, during, and after switching edges to heelside. Are you also tucking shoulder heelside mid or end turn, or is that all open shoulder?
> 
> @WigMar couldn’t find the Stale video to check ... are you doing the wavy bird hand/dropping shoulder driving down the toeside line, more mid turn, or somewhere else like early or late in toe turns?


Im tilting shoulders at the moment of edge change.


----------



## Kijima

BoardieK said:


> I dunno, some of that arm up in the air stuff looks a bit contrived to me. Enjoyed the video though and I have to admit to occasionally hitting a fantastic spot with no one around and putting out BOTH arms and "flying". Woohoo.


I used to think it was over acting too but there's certainly something to managing the angle of your shoulders at the point of turn entry. 
I'm going to play with tilting my shoulders whilst keeing that back arm quiet.


----------



## MrDavey2Shoes

Kijima said:


> Dropping my inside shoulder has been a recent revelation for me, when I took my rear hand and put it up in heel turns I noticed how effective dropping the inside one was.


[/QUOTE]

I discovered this yesterday after a few days of moving backwards progress wise. I was getting frustrated and riding tight and trying to muscle it, force it. Wrenching and jerking my body around. Riding angry.


So I went back to the basics. Ditched my carving board for my party platter and got back to the movements not the positions. Rode weird and had fun. I found myself basically doing a giant “wax on Daniel-son” with my rear arm rotating a giant slow circle at the shoulder. Back to the carving board today and implemented this and suddenly I’m getting way lower than I had been able to before. Touching the snow and butt skimming above the piste....however I’d wash out probably
60-70% of the time. But no worry, the code has been broken now I just need to keep at it until I find my balance point. I think.

@WigMar the “throw yourself at the snow” idea is also helping quite a bit. Keeps me in the front seat.

Finally a breakthrough after a frustrating couple days of no of no progress whatsoever!


----------



## Kijima

MrDavey2Shoes said:


> 157707[/ATTACH]


----------



## Kijima

Dude Im doing exactly the same motion with my rear arm. It's a circle, everything is a circle.
I am starting heel turns standing high with no upper body rotation, my rear arm bent at the elbow around 45 degrees and held above head hight. Inside sholuder is dropped low.
I gradually squat so that max squat coincides with the max g force part of the turn. At that same point my rear arm is at its lowest and fully rotated.
Hula hoop out of the heel turn with the rear shoulder dropped and the front shoulder rotated.


----------



## Aracan

Kijima said:


> I found that all I need for carving is board width, my 1m of effective edge has far more edge hold than my body can deal with at the moment so I have no reason to go longer.





Kijima said:


> So short edges work well for soft conditions and high speed riding but when it's really firm more edge and less width is beneficial for sure


I have a feeling that, like a nice carve at the flat end of a run, this thread might just come full circle.


----------



## MrDavey2Shoes

@Kijima I love the drawings, they always help me as I'm very visual. Looks like we're working on the same thing right now. I can't wait until I find my balance point, I just hope I get to enjoy it before the season ends here.

I think there is something to be said about stepping back onto a flexy board with minimal EE. With the lesser grip it really forces you to pay attention to the nuances of motion and technique. Ultimate EE and grip, while necessary for optimal carving can be a crutch for us and allow us to blur some of the technique aka ride lazy. TL;DR I found hopping back on something playful to be a good exercise in making sure I'm doing my part and not just relying on a stiffer board with EE to get me through the turn.


----------



## supern00b

MrDavey2Shoes said:


> @Kijima I love the drawings, they always help me as I'm very visual. Looks like we're working on the same thing right now. I can't wait until I find my balance point, I just hope I get to enjoy it before the season ends here.
> 
> I think there is something to be said about stepping back onto a flexy board with minimal EE. With the lesser grip it really forces you to pay attention to the nuances of motion and technique. Ultimate EE and grip, while necessary for optimal carving can be a crutch for us and allow us to blur some of the technique aka ride lazy. TL;DR I found hopping back on something playful to be a good exercise in making sure I'm doing my part and not just relying on a stiffer board with EE to get me through the turn.


As much as I appreciate the sentiment, is this really a worthwhile endeavor? I equate it to a craftsman saying "I will intentionally use less-optimal tools to work on honing my technique". 

For the sake of the discussion, another example: as a guitar player, that's like me saying "I'll practice on a guitar that hasn't been setup to work on my technique". A guitar that isn't properly set up is tougher to play, but it's still doable with some adapting. Does this really equate to getting better at the skill?


----------



## ridethecliche

supern00b said:


> As much as I appreciate the sentiment, is this really a worthwhile endeavor? I equate it to a craftsman saying "I will intentionally use less-optimal tools to work on honing my technique".
> 
> For the sake of the discussion, another example: as a guitar player, that's like me saying "I'll practice on a guitar that hasn't been setup to work on my technique". A guitar that isn't properly set up is tougher to play, but it's still doable with some adapting. Does this really equate to getting better at the skill?


Actually, it would be more like practicing on a guitar with higher action to develop and train finger strength before going back to the instrument you usually play. Kinda like why people recommend learning on acoustic first since it helps develop technique a bit better than learning on electric (allegedly).

Swapping boards is an interesting concept too because every board drives differently. Learning to adapt to a board is helpful, I think, because conditions aren't always perfect and those skills can translate to other boards you ride, y'know? I think that's what Davey's going for here.


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## supern00b

Fair enough, goes to show why I suck at guitar =/


----------



## MrDavey2Shoes

supern00b said:


> As much as I appreciate the sentiment, is this really a worthwhile endeavor? I equate it to a craftsman saying "I will intentionally use less-optimal tools to work on honing my technique".
> 
> For the sake of the discussion, another example: as a guitar player, that's like me saying "I'll practice on a guitar that hasn't been setup to work on my technique". A guitar that isn't properly set up is tougher to play, but it's still doable with some adapting. Does this really equate to getting better at the skill?


As a guitar player I would equate it to saying I will practice my fundamentals on my acoustic to ensure I am playing as cleanly as possible as opposed to through my electric on a channel with gain where my shortfalls are made up for by the gain on the amp.


----------



## Kijima

It's important to mix up your boards because the one board cannot do it all in every condition and changing seems to really help you break habits that are holding you back. 

Riding slowly with turns completed to the absolute limit is my new hobby in bad conditions.


----------



## supern00b

what would be the snowboard equivalent of having reverb on w/ dirty amp at all times?


----------



## Kijima

supern00b said:


> what would be the snowboard equivalent of having reverb on w/ dirty amp at all times?


Riding fast


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## supern00b

Kijima said:


> Riding fast


Speaking of which, is there a speed limit for carving? Or will great technique eventually allow you to carve at super fast speeds?


----------



## ridethecliche

supern00b said:


> what would be the snowboard equivalent of having reverb on w/ dirty amp at all times?


3BT

There. I said it.


----------



## MrDavey2Shoes

Kijima said:


> Riding fast


lol yup
@ridethecliche I agree with the above statement. But you better put your flame suit on!


----------



## Kijima

Aracan said:


> I have a feeling that, like a nice carve at the flat end of a run, this thread might just come full circle.


3 days ago I did the best carving of my life on 1m of edge.
The board is only one part of the traction equation with the other being snow condition, the more your board sinks in to the snow the less edge you need to achieve the same amount of traction.
So taking too much edge to a piste that is providing a healthy dose of traction is unnecessary, kind of like chopping an onion with a machete, its over kill and you might just cut your finger in the process.

So on a beautiful soft snow day the best tool is a short edge board to release you from your turns easily.
On a hard snow day the snow isn't giving you much feedback so you need a longer edge.
✌ ✌ ✌


----------



## WigMar

supern00b said:


> Speaking of which, is there a speed limit for carving? Or will great technique eventually allow you to carve at super fast speeds?


I've been feeling out a very variable speed limit. There's limitations imposed by my technique, the conditions, the slope, my gear, and how all those factors interact. There's a sweet spot where you can go quite fast. G-forces in turns start stacking up with speed. Your turns get longer and straighter the faster you go.


----------



## Kijima

supern00b said:


> Speaking of which, is there a speed limit for carving? Or will great technique eventually allow you to carve at super fast speeds?


When you fail to hold your edge you just caught yourself speeding


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## ridethecliche

supern00b said:


> Speaking of which, is there a speed limit for carving? Or will great technique eventually allow you to carve at super fast speeds?


----------



## wrathfuldeity

supern00b said:


> what would be the snowboard equivalent of having reverb on w/ dirty amp at all times?


Reverb on a dirty amp is mushy verses delay on a dirty amp is huge...so sloppy technique











supern00b said:


> Speaking of which, is there a speed limit for carving? Or will great technique eventually allow you to carve at super fast speeds?


Great technique will allow you to carve at super slow speeds. Years ago saw this rider carving pencil thin lines while going slightly faster than walking speed...twas blown away.


----------



## Aracan

Kijima said:


> So taking too much edge to a piste that is providing a healthy dose of traction is unnecessary, kind of like chopping an onion with a machete, its over kill and you might just cut your finger in the process.


Not sure if I understand you correctly. But it looks to me like you are saying: "If your technique is good enough for difficult conditions, you should get another board for easier conditions, because your technique is probably not good enough for those."
Oh come on.


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## Kijima

Aracan said:


> Not sure if I understand you correctly. But it looks to me like you are saying: "If your technique is good enough for difficult conditions, you should get another board for easier conditions, because your technique is probably not good enough for those."
> Oh come on.


Quit it with the negative vibes please Aracan. 
People come in here to talk about or think about abstract ideas related to carving, you come in for other reasons. 
Have a good think about your reasons and what energy you are channelling when you post in this thread because you come off disgruntled.
Lets swing the vibe the other way please, why don't you add something positive, thought provoking or otherwise interesting instead of trying to trip me up.


----------



## Scalpelman

Aracan said:


> Not sure if I understand you correctly. But it looks to me like you are saying: "If your technique is good enough for difficult conditions, you should get another board for easier conditions, because your technique is probably not good enough for those."
> Oh come on.


I think of it as more “bring the right board for the conditions.”


----------



## Aracan

Kijima said:


> Have a good think about your reasons


Entertainment, mostly. Two years ago, when this thread started and the "extremely short wide board" was presented as the surprising solution to carving (along with body movements which were rather hard to explain), I was wondering if
a) everybody else had missed something important in the last twenty years or so
or b) you would revise your opinion, and if that, how long it would take.
Turns out that “b)” and “two years”.
I was also wondering when you would treat us to your good self putting your theories to the test (as in actually carving, on actual video, in actual non-perfect conditions).
Answer: maybe later, because, oh crap, all those pesky powder days.


Kijima said:


> People come in here to talk about or think about abstract ideas related to carving,


Truer words were never written.


Kijima said:


> Quit it with the negative vibes please Aracan.


I thought this was a discussion, not an agreeing contest. I believe you said (at least you couldn't be bothered to enlighten me otherwise, instead choosing to chastize me about the quality of my “energy”) that one should get a special board for those rare days when conditions are nice enough that anyone halfway competent could carve on their toilet door. In case I haven’t made myself clear:
That's bullshit. If you can carve on hardpack but aren't able to carve leisurely on grippy snow there is something wrong with your technique, not with your board.


Scalpelman said:


> I think of it as more “bring the right board for the conditions.”


If your first board is a GS board with an 18 cm waist, then by all means get another board for those mellower days. If your first board is a modern slalom board, or an all-around alpine board, or anything meant to be ridden in softboots, chances are it is plenty mellow. And if anyone still insists that you need a “mellow” board, you might justifiably ask yourself why. Especially if it involves a faulty comparison with edged weapons.


----------



## WigMar

I've got a quiver of three powder boards for different depths and types of snow and freeriding. Why not have a quiver for carving as well? Certainly there's an ideal tool for different conditions. I've been getting a lot of enjoyment out of switching between two. 

I've been carving on a 262ww 160 Pentaquark, and a 286ww 151 Slush Slasher. There's a huge difference between soft and hard snow conditions, and there's a huge difference in those boards. The shorter wider board is better at soft conditions hands down. It's got extra width to accommodate the deeper trenches you lay in soft snow, and it doesn't get stuck in it's own trench as easily. I prefer the extra grip of the long board when it's really firm out. However, that board's pretty narrow for soft conditions. I'm still getting boot and heel contact with my bindings set at 42/30. If it started getting wider, it would get too heavy quickly.


----------



## Aracan

Whatever rocks your boat. As long as you don't tell me that it's somehow dangerous ("might cut your finger") to ride a more capable board in conditions that don't demand it …


----------



## ridethecliche

What does that even mean?!


----------



## Scalpelman

Aracan said:


> Entertainment, mostly. Two years ago, when this thread started and the "extremely short wide board" was presented as the surprising solution to carving (along with body movements which were rather hard to explain), I was wondering if
> a) everybody else had missed something important in the last twenty years or so
> or b) you would revise your opinion, and if that, how long it would take.
> Turns out that “b)” and “two years”.
> I was also wondering when you would treat us to your good self putting your theories to the test (as in actually carving, on actual video, in actual non-perfect conditions).
> Answer: maybe later, because, oh crap, all those pesky powder days.
> 
> Truer words were never written.
> 
> I thought this was a discussion, not an agreeing contest. I believe you said (at least you couldn't be bothered to enlighten me otherwise, instead choosing to chastize me about the quality of my “energy”) that one should get a special board for those rare days when conditions are nice enough that anyone halfway competent could carve on their toilet door. In case I haven’t made myself clear:
> That's bullshit. If you can carve on hardpack but aren't able to carve leisurely on grippy snow there is something wrong with your technique, not with your board.
> 
> If your first board is a GS board with an 18 cm waist, then by all means get another board for those mellower days. If your first board is a modern slalom board, or an all-around alpine board, or anything meant to be ridden in softboots, chances are it is plenty mellow. And if anyone still insists that you need a “mellow” board, you might justifiably ask yourself why. Especially if it involves a faulty comparison with edged weapons.


You need it because it’s FUN. There’s no way in hell you can lump every carving board into one category. They all ride differently. And the experience you feel carving on differing decks on differing conditions is one of the best smile inducing things about snowboarding.


----------



## WigMar

MrDavey2Shoes said:


> @WigMar the “throw yourself at the snow” idea is also helping quite a bit. Keeps me in the front seat.


I was thinking about this front seat idea yesterday. When you're running ++ angles, getting low through the turn gets you into the backseat. That automates the rearward weight shift naturally and well. I've been having to focus on getting as forward as I can early on. Opening my front knee hard as I'm throwing myself at the snow has been helping with that even more on heelsides. I'm chattering and washing out less. It feels like you're driving the board into the snow with your knees.


----------



## Hatto

Aracan said:


> Entertainment, mostly. Two years ago, when this thread started and the "extremely short wide board" was presented as the surprising solution to carving (along with body movements which were rather hard to explain), I was wondering if
> a) everybody else had missed something important in the last twenty years or so
> or b) you would revise your opinion, and if that, how long it would take.
> Turns out that “b)” and “two years”.
> I was also wondering when you would treat us to your good self putting your theories to the test (as in actually carving, on actual video, in actual non-perfect conditions).
> Answer: maybe later, because, oh crap, all those pesky powder days.
> 
> Truer words were never written.
> 
> I thought this was a discussion, not an agreeing contest. I believe you said (at least you couldn't be bothered to enlighten me otherwise, instead choosing to chastize me about the quality of my “energy”) that one should get a special board for those rare days when conditions are nice enough that anyone halfway competent could carve on their toilet door. In case I haven’t made myself clear:
> That's bullshit. If you can carve on hardpack but aren't able to carve leisurely on grippy snow there is something wrong with your technique, not with your board.
> 
> If your first board is a GS board with an 18 cm waist, then by all means get another board for those mellower days. If your first board is a modern slalom board, or an all-around alpine board, or anything meant to be ridden in softboots, chances are it is plenty mellow. And if anyone still insists that you need a “mellow” board, you might justifiably ask yourself why. Especially if it involves a faulty comparison with edged weapons.


This entire thread has been about searching, looking for , trying different things to do with carving and i think it has been great. I believe my technique has to change for different boards and different conditions and that there is always alternative ways to achieve the same result.
As i get older i am finding it harder to push hard all day so if changes to to technique, easier riding boards (shorter, lighter) for the conditions keeps me out there longer, than i am all for it. I am always open to new concepts, trying things etc (have nothing to lose and everything to gain).
Just because nobody has changed things in the last 20 years doesn't mean there are no changes to be had/made. If Kijima's ideas provoke all who are interested to ask questions and try different things and they work then that is great for everyone, if they don't work, nothing is lost and the journey has been enjoyed.
If anyone had said to me 20 years ago that we would be riding a 150cm board in powder i would have laughed, but here we are.

Aracan, if you believe that nothing important has been missed in the snowboard world in the last twenty years, well i have no problem with that (each to their own) but i don't understand why you would be looking at a forum thread that is clearly about a potential alternative to your beliefs


----------



## MrDavey2Shoes

Hatto said:


> This entire thread has been about searching, looking for , trying different things to do with carving and i think it has been great. I believe my technique has to change for different boards and different conditions and that there is always alternative ways to achieve the same result.
> As i get older i am finding it harder to push hard all day so if changes to to technique, easier riding boards (shorter, lighter) for the conditions keeps me out there longer, than i am all for it. I am always open to new concepts, trying things etc (have nothing to lose and everything to gain).
> Just because nobody has changed things in the last 20 years doesn't mean there are no changes to be had/made. If Kijima's ideas provoke all who are interested to ask questions and try different things and they work then that is great for everyone, if they don't work, nothing is lost and the journey has been enjoyed.
> If anyone had said to me 20 years ago that we would be riding a 150cm board in powder i would have laughed, but here we are.
> 
> Aracan, if you believe that nothing important has been missed in the snowboard world in the last twenty years, well i have no problem with that (each to their own) but i don't understand why you would be looking at a forum thread that is clearly about a potential alternative to your beliefs


 this guy gets it.


----------



## MrDavey2Shoes

WigMar said:


> I was thinking about this front seat idea yesterday. When you're running ++ angles, getting low through the turn gets you into the backseat. That automates the rearward weight shift naturally and well. I've been having to focus on getting as forward as I can early on. Opening my front knee hard as I'm throwing myself at the snow has been helping with that even more on heelsides. I'm chattering and washing out less. It feels like you're driving the board into the snow with your knees.


In thinking about what you’ve said here and thinking about my own experience I think it’s easier to get in the front seat when you move diagonally instead of laterally over the nose. I think that’s actuated by the knee roll or maybe the knee roll is the outcome. I don’t know.


----------



## Paxford

Kijima said:


> Dude Im doing exactly the same motion with my rear arm. It's a circle, everything is a circle.
> I am starting heel turns standing high with no upper body rotation, my rear arm bent at the elbow around 45 degrees and held above head hight. Inside sholuder is dropped low.
> I gradually squat so that max squat coincides with the max g force part of the turn. At that same point my rear arm is at its lowest and fully rotated.
> Hula hoop out of the heel turn with the rear shoulder dropped and the front shoulder rotated.
> View attachment 157708


I don’t think of everything as a circle or even a combination of circles. That doesn’t give your connections of flow their due IMO.

All this stuff ... circles, hips, hands, hula, eagles, waving birds, waxing Daniels, etc regardless of whatever name we give the incremental parts they are all progressing towards a common goal of being able to dolphin dance really well. All the parts need to be assembled back together and once mastered then focus shifted to style and flow.


----------



## Aracan

See above. If you feel a quiver adds to your fun, then by all means build a quiver. Just don't tell me I _need_ a mellow board because I might cut myself with a more capable board. Especially not if you are in the business of selling those mellow boards for $ 1,000 apiece.


----------



## MrDavey2Shoes

Aracan said:


> See above. If you feel a quiver adds to your fun, then by all means build a quiver. Just don't tell me I _need_ a mellow board because I might cut myself with a more capable board. Especially not if you are in the business of selling those mellow boards for $ 1,000 apiece.


I think you’d cut yourself with any board.

@Paxford but the funny names are half the fun!


----------



## Aracan

MrDavey2Shoes said:


> I think you’d cut yourself with any board.


It has happened, although not while carving. That must be why Hula-Hoops are the new weapon of choice. Much safer all around.


----------



## MrDavey2Shoes

Aracan said:


> It has happened, although not while carving. That must be why Hula-Hoops are the new weapon of choice. Much safer all around.


Clearly you don’t own any Hula Hoops. This thread should be fun and Aracan is not fun.


----------



## Aracan

If you managed to cut yourself on a Hula Hoop you obviously have found the secret that this thread is about. More power to you.


----------



## MrDavey2Shoes

You don’t know the power of the Hula Hoop - Darth Vader


----------



## ridethecliche

I mean... people cut themselves with paper all the time.

Though I guess that does have a lot of effective edge for the sheet length so...

But also Aracan... Why are you like this doe?


----------



## Kijima

Rolling around your heel to exit a heel turn really pops you out of your turns.
In your house, stand against a wall take a step forward so that you can lean back into the wall. Go through the motions of your heel turn whilst resting your back against the wall and when you get to the end try rolling your full body weight around your back heel.
Get used to the feeling at home then put it to the snow and I bet you feel more edge hold and pop out of your heel turns.


----------



## Kijima

Here is something interesting. I wax my sidewalls because it easy to do while I have the heat gun out waxing my base, check out how much dirt I just wiped off my sidewalls. That's the stuff that slows you down, it's worth cleaning off.


----------



## Masterblaster

I just switched to boarding from sking last yr. I’m 5”10 riding a 167 t rice libtech board. Started with flow binding didnt like them. Just bought genesis binding. I noticed when I removed the flows somehow one was mounted further to toe edge. Not sure how this happened. 
I noticed in your picture both bindings were angled further forward than I’d expect. Maybe this would be best for me also. I’m riding goofy footed and never will ride switch Every once in a while might get small air on high speed hits on almost always groomers. I’m 50 and just enjoy carving turns and getting more comfortable at speed. What angle would be best for this sort of riding. This was my last angle setup. Should I setup a little toward the back of board to smooth it out since no switch riding ?


----------



## Masterblaster




----------



## Kijima

Masterblaster said:


> I just switched to boarding from sking last yr. I’m 5”10 riding a 167 t rice libtech board. Started with flow binding didnt like them. Just bought genesis binding. I noticed when I removed the flows somehow one was mounted further to toe edge. Not sure how this happened.
> I noticed in your picture both bindings were angled further forward than I’d expect. Maybe this would be best for me also. I’m riding goofy footed and never will ride switch Every once in a while might get small air on high speed hits on almost always groomers. I’m 50 and just enjoy carving turns and getting more comfortable at speed. What angle would be best for this sort of riding. This was my last angle setup. Should I setup a little toward the back of board to smooth it out since no switch riding ?


The main thing you gain from more binding angle is a greater ability to rotate your upper body into a heel turn friendly position. I changed from duck stance +15 -15 to FF stance and I really enjoy it but it is such a personal thing. My angles are +48 +33 on most of my boards these days which sounds extreme but I slowly worked my way up to those numbers. 
As a 50 year old looking to cruise groomers I think a forward forward stance would suit you for sure. 
Set up at +30 +15 and steer with your front hip when you first try it. ✌


----------



## Aracan

Some people find more splay (angle difference between front and rear) facilitates a strong toeside turn. So if +30 +15 suits you, it's worth trying if +35 or even +40 and +15 (if your binding supports that) might suit you even better.


----------



## Scalpelman

Definitely play around with angles. I ride anywhere from 0/+18 to +9/+27 depending on the deck. If it’s soft snow/powder I like the smaller angles on my S camber decks. It lends more versatility/easier to land side hits. Icy and fast days I crank up the angles and bring out the long, full camber decks.


----------



## Kijima

Aracan said:


> Some people find more splay (angle difference between front and rear) facilitates a strong toeside turn. So if +30 +15 suits you, it's worth trying if +35 or even +40 and +15 (if your binding supports that) might suit you even better.


Do you think it's more splay or a more square rear foot that adds power to toe turns? 
Like creating that same splay by reducing the rear angle instead would probably make more people feel a stronger toe turn. 
I have found I like more rear angle as I started doing my toe turns with a rotated upper body, when my body was more square I liked the more square rear angle.


----------



## wrathfuldeity

Kijima said:


> Do you think it's more splay or a more square rear foot that adds power to toe turns?
> Like creating that same splay by reducing the rear angle instead would probably make more people feel a stronger toe turn.
> I have found I like more rear angle as I started doing my toe turns with a rotated upper body, when my body was more square I liked the more square rear angle.


The more square the rear foot...does add power to initiate the toe turns. However wondering if a more rotated (in to the toeside) upper body could be used more...because...having a square rear foot helps getting into the toeside carve...but does not help in tucking or rolling your knee toward the nose to get low and in the backseat at the end of the toeside carve. OTOH, more likely retarded and struggling trying to figure some of this stuff out.


----------



## Aracan

Kijima said:


> Do you think it's more splay or a more square rear foot that adds power to toe turns?
> Like creating that same splay by reducing the rear angle instead would probably make more people feel a stronger toe turn.


In a nutshell, both. But my rear angle is a given resulting from boot size and board width. With my boards I cannot go lower than 40° and still avoid overhang. I have been told by experienced riders with smaller feet that an even lower angle is beneficial.
However, I know from experience that increasing splay by increasing the front angle will also improve the toeside turn. There seems to be an upper limit. Personally, I don't really feel comfortable on a 24 cm board with an angle noticeable higher than, say, 65°.


----------



## Kijima

Aracan said:


> Personally, I don't really feel comfortable on a 24 cm board with an angle noticeable higher than, say, 65°.


Interesting. 
I've not been to such extreme angles as 65 degrees but I am finding myself embracing more narrow boards these days due to the higher rear binding angle.
I'm on a 27cm waist now for firm conditions and only pull out the 30cm boards for soft snow.


----------



## Kijima

wrathfuldeity said:


> The more square the rear foot...does add power to initiate the toe turns.


I used to feel the same thing and that's why I was loving 30cm waist widths but as I started doing toe turns in a new style with the rotated upper body I am finding I can deliver a lot of power to the toe edge by pushing my rear hip down to the snow.
When you do a toe turn with rotated upper body your hips are at 90 degrees to the board instead of parallel, and this allows you to get weight over the toe edge in a new way and I'm finding it to be very effective.

Eg +48 +33 hips at 90 degrees (chairlift edit, it's more like 45 degrees) and heavily pushing that rear hip to the snow, only closing the upper body in the last 10% of the toe turn.


----------



## Masterblaster

Kijima said:


> The main thing you gain from more binding angle is a greater ability to rotate your upper body into a heel turn friendly position. I changed from duck stance +15 -15 to FF stance and I really enjoy it but it is such a personal thing. My angles are +48 +33 on most of my boards these days which sounds extreme but I slowly worked my way up to those numbers.
> As a 50 year old looking to cruise groomers I think a forward forward stance would suit you for sure.
> Set up at +30 +15 and steer with your front hip when you first try it. ✌


How much different is that then what I have pictured. I forgot to check numbers when I took them off. I just set them up Initially how my feet felt comfortable standing in them. Also does it make sense to set up a little bit back on the board of center if your never riding switch ?


----------



## Kijima

Masterblaster said:


> View attachment 157803


What you have there look like +15 +3 to me. 
It's very moderate, not really taking advantage of a forward forward stance. 
The only real answer is the one that feels good to you so have a play around with it and realise that your style will change and grow in time, as you get more used to FF stance you tend to increase the angles more and more.


----------



## Aracan

Kijima said:


> When you do a toe turn with rotated upper body your hips are at 90 degrees to the board instead of parallel, and this allows you to get weight over the toe edge in a new way and I'm finding it to be very effective.


I may be picturing this wrong, but it sounds like you are advocating the advantages of counter-rotation for toeside turns.


----------



## MrDavey2Shoes

Maybe it was just the photo burn that board looked set up backwards for goofy foot...bindings looked set too far toward the nose.


----------



## Masterblaster

Yes that’s what I’m asking. It is setup for goofy foot I’m a lefty. But I’m wondering if I should setup a little bit towards the back of the board since I never ride switch. How often do guys setup not in the center. I suppose most guys go switch once in a while. I know I never will. I feel incredibly off balance switch and I’m to old to bust my ass learning it. Just not important. Neither was sking backwards lol.


----------



## Masterblaster

MrDavey2Shoes said:


> Maybe it was just the photo burn that board looked set up backwards for goofy foot...bindings looked set too far toward the nose.


Post above


----------



## MCrides

Masterblaster said:


> Yes that’s what I’m asking. It is setup for goofy foot I’m a lefty. But I’m wondering if I should setup a little bit towards the back of the board since I never ride switch. How often do guys setup not in the center. I suppose most guys go switch once in a while. I know I never will. I feel incredibly off balance switch and I’m to old to bust my ass learning it. Just not important. Neither was sking backwards lol.


The board should be marked with a reference stance, which will put you inline with wherever the manufacturer intended you to be relative to the sidecut. Some people like to shift backwards relative to the reference stance, usually to increase float, but also sometimes for technique reasons. Personal preference, and if you want to try it out go for it--I spent a few days this season riding with extra setback to see how it affected my carving.

If MrDavey is right and your bindings are _forward_ of the reference stance, then you should definitely move them back.


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## Masterblaster

MCrides said:


> The board should be marked with a reference stance, which will put you inline with wherever the manufacturer intended you to be relative to the sidecut. Some people like to shift backwards relative to the reference stance, usually to increase float, but also sometimes for technique reasons. Personal preference, and if you want to try it out go for it--I spent a few days this season riding with extra setback to see how it affected my carving.
> 
> If MrDavey is right and your bindings are _forward_ of the reference stance, then you should definitely move them back.


I don’t see anything around the holes in the board for reference to stance. When you say float you mean foot powder to keep nose up. I’m only getting to ride groomers if I’m lucky here on east coast va


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## Scalpelman

Masterblaster said:


> I don’t see anything around the holes in the board for reference to stance. When you say float you mean foot powder to keep nose up. I’m only getting to ride groomers if I’m lucky here on east coast va


Yes set back for powder. 

I have a wide stance and still try to center that around the reference. If it can’t be even I’ll hedge to rear of reference.


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## supern00b

Kijima said:


> Ive got a few days riding on v4.0 now. This is the one.
> I will be making a small run of 10 decks and that will be it until next summer, if any of you guys want one speak up and I will make sure you get a personalized one with your name written on the core.
> This first batch will be JP¥30,000 and after that they will be priced higher.
> Deck only.
> Suits 10 inch trucks.
> Legit snowboard carving experience.
> Money back to anyone who isnt satisfied, no questions.
> Also I will be doing a group shipping order to the US via Wigmar so shipping should not be too expensive collectively.
> 
> Thank you.
> 
> View attachment 154092


Has this group buy passed already? I'm looking for a long board to practice my turns.


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## WigMar

Two handed heelsides- Conditions were extremely firm and icy yesterday after many freeze and thaw cycles. There was some slush to be slashed at the base, but that transitioned into blue ice at the top. I found a sunny lower blue run that was just soft enough to set an edge into if you committed hard. The sketchy conditions had me putting both hands down on toe turns, which seemed to help with how icy it was. Well, I was inspired to put both hands down on heel turns as well. I'd seen it in videos, but I never thought I'd be able to get that back arm around and down. After a season spent getting low heelside, both hands down on heels turns was actually pretty easy. I liked how it commits a ton weight up front over the nose. Initiations had so much commitment there was no problem driving the edge into the firm slope. I prefer one hand down for both toe and heel side turns, but having the option of two hands is nice.


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## Scalpelman

WigMar said:


> Two handed heelsides- Conditions were extremely firm and icy yesterday after many freeze and thaw cycles. There was some slush to be slashed at the base, but that transitioned into blue ice at the top. I found a sunny lower blue run that was just soft enough to set an edge into if you committed hard. The sketchy conditions had me putting both hands down on toe turns, which seemed to help with how icy it was. Well, I was inspired to put both hands down on heel turns as well. I'd seen it in videos, but I never thought I'd be able to get that back arm around and down. After a season spent getting low heelside, both hands down on heels turns was actually pretty easy. I liked how it commits a ton weight up front over the nose. Initiations had so much commitment there was no problem driving the edge into the firm slope. I prefer one hand down for both toe and heel side turns, but having the option of two hands is nice.


Yeah but two hands looks much cooler.


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## MrDavey2Shoes

Ah shit, we’ve been called out 🤣


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## NT.Thunder

I just wanted to bump this thread - we have a few new posters joining for this upcoming season and this thread deserves a good read from anyone who truly wants to improve their riding.

Game changer for me.


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## ridethecliche

NT.Thunder said:


> I just wanted to bump this thread - we have a few new posters joining for this upcoming season and this thread deserves a good read from anyone who truly wants to improve their riding.
> 
> Game changer for me.


Stickyyyy time!


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## Seppuccu

Too long for sticky.


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## WigMar

Just wanted to bump this thread again out of appreciation. These deep carving skills have changed the way I ride a snowboard in general. It's pretty awesome. Its increased my skill set all over the mountain. Even my freeride game got tighter.


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## smellysell

WigMar said:


> Just wanted to bump this thread again out of appreciation. These deep carving skills have changed the way I ride a snowboard in general. It's pretty awesome. Its increased my skill set all over the mountain. Even my freeride game got tighter.


What are the main points that have helped you? 

Sent from my Pixel 5 using Tapatalk


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## MrDavey2Shoes

I love having a place to go and nerd out about turning

Happy 21/22 season


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## WigMar

smellysell said:


> What are the main points that have helped you?
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 5 using Tapatalk


It really tightened up my fundamentals. If all you work on for awhile is turning, all of your turns get better. I'm riding better and using less energy. I'm grateful to this thread and all of its participants. 

Specifically I felt like it fundamentally changed my freeriding. Instead of bombing and doing hockey stops that blind you with faceshots or bleeding off speed with lots of shifty back foot movements, I'm more carving through the powder among the trees. I'm also in much finer control of my nose to tail balance, which makes all kinds of things easier- like not getting bucked around when you bounce off of hidden roots and rocks early season. Really getting on the nose helps in moguls. Your back leg is free to float and shift from toe to heel while the nose drives turns through the bumps.


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## Kijima

Hello carve peoples


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## NT.Thunder

Kijima said:


> Hello carve peoples


YES - He's back!

Season looks great man, hoping your making the most of the reduced crowds testing those wide open groomers!!!

Do tell.


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## Kijima

I spent a few seasons getting up on the nose for heel turns and couldn't work out how to weight the back of the board as the turn finishes.
This season I have been trying to stay off the front foot as much as I can and it's working.
This is what I worked out, my upper body is where the bulk of my weight is, and if I put my weight out in front it will all flow down my front leg and I end up locked in a front leg only turn.
In a front leg only turn your board doesn't flex properly, the front flexes a lot and the back stays much straighter. This is the cause of the double line in your tracks if you ever see one. Uneven board flex.
This pic I scooped off the net, it's not me but shows exactly how my heel turns used to be. Heavily rotated, one leg weighted and uneven board flex.









So I figured if my front leg can do the first 3/4 of the turn alone then my back leg should be able to do the last 3/4 of a turn on it's own.
I squared my shoulders up, dialled back my stance angles and started trying heel turns with no rotation and found it very easy to finish the turns with power. Unlike before.
I ended up being able to do bum down heel turns without putting my hands on the snow.
With the skills I learned by doing that I have been able to really hold back my upper body rotation and finish my heel turns cleanly, with power and control.
The trick was to not get on the front leg in the first place.
My board flex looks like this now and it leaves a razor sharp track.









In video it looks like this. For me personally the heel turn is almost complete, the toe turn just needs the front shoulder opened up, relax the posture and swing down like a pendulum, without bearing weight on the snow.









Carving January 2022







youtube.com


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## Scalpelman

Welcome back! Yeah that heelside video looks dialed in. I’ve been playing around with fore and aft weighting this season. It’s made an immense improvement in turns, especially with my shorter, more playful decks. Smoother flow. 


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## Jkb818

Man I need to get my heel sides looking like that!


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## LeDe

@Kijima, 
Am I right saying that this tecnique requires even more leg control ie stronger quads and glutes? 
As you are not pushing into the turn with your front leg it seems this is really the controlled pace of the squat that does it all.


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## Kijima

LeDe said:


> @Kijima,
> Am I right saying that this tecnique requires even more leg control ie stronger quads and glutes?
> As you are not pushing into the turn with your front leg it seems this is really the controlled pace of the squat that does it all.


Actually my heel turn now uses very little energy, the pendulum swing takes me down, I fold at the hips, no squat to speak of so not much leg strength really required, then the pendulum effect lifts me up effortlesly. Same for the toe turn. It requires little energy.

Patience and delayed movements are what I used to get this style of turn. Everything I recommended in years gone past was essential, I still recommend people to learn heel turns in the same way.
Let the toe turn run up hill.
Rotate heavily.
Squat while rotated until you sit on the snow.
Once on the snow rotate back around. People who follow these rules generally start touching their bum in heel turns within a few hours.
Once you lock that down I recommend patience and delay. Hold everything back and let the pendulum swing do all the work with a fold at the hips rather than a squat at the knees.


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## Kijima

This is what I worked out about weighting my board. 
Upper body is like a water tank sitting on a table. If the tank is pushed to one side you cannot expect much weight to flow down the other leg. 
If you look at anyone who does heavily rotated heel turns you will see where they are putting their weight, out over the front leg. They will usually prefer a set back board with a long nose as that brings the front leg close to the middle of the board because that's how they flex the board. They will usually hide it with speed and cannot perform a slow carve with the same action. 
A good carving method will work regardless of speed, you should be able to do it fast or slow , doing it slowly is far better practice actually.


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## Jkb818

I think I need to be more mindful of bending at the waist instead of knees.


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## Scalpelman

Kijima said:


> View attachment 161842
> 
> This is what I worked out about weighting my board.
> Upper body is like a water tank sitting on a table. If the tank is pushed to one side you cannot expect much weight to flow down the other leg.
> If you look at anyone who does heavily rotated heel turns you will see where they are putting their weight, out over the front leg. They will usually prefer a set back board with a long nose as that brings the front leg close to the middle of the board because that's how they flex the board. They will usually hide it with speed and cannot perform a slow carve with the same action.
> A good carving method will work regardless of speed, you should be able to do it fast or slow , doing it slowly is far better practice actually.


Couple questions. 

1. The hips are the pendulum? 

2. The carving you describe is for a twin-ish board in regards to foot weighting? 

I mean of course we all do changes in weighting with more freeride shaped decks. 
But are you saying that with a set back deck we should be not forward weighing? I feel like it’s crucial to initiating the turn. 


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## ridethecliche

Welcome back!


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## Kijima

Scalpelman said:


> Couple questions.
> 
> 1. The hips are the pendulum?
> 
> 2. The carving you describe is for a twin-ish board in regards to foot weighting?
> 
> I mean of course we all do changes in weighting with more freeride shaped decks.
> But are you saying that with a set back deck we should be not forward weighing? I feel like it’s crucial to initiating the turn.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


1. The pendulum effect is basically harnessing the natural forces of the turn.
If you look at my heel turn in the vid above you can see I don't put much weight inside the arc until the g forces start to increase. Max g force occurs at the 3/4 point of the turn, by having patience at the start of the turn I have been able match the amount of weight inside the arc perfectly with the g forces of the turn.

2. I don't feel the board type has any influence over the turn, only that it is wide enough to avoid boot out and flexible enough to achieve the necessary arc.
If you want to carve like this you need a flexible board. I build bamboo boards purpose built for the task, stiffer boards just wont give you the same performance.

3. Forward weighting is super important, especially for people trying to change from their old method to my method. Without heavy forward weighting you will never achieve your goal, but as you know I've been at this for years now and I have improved and refined the method constantly. In the end weighting the nose became a trap that I got stuck in, I worked out that I would never be able to weight the tail because my mass was too far forward.
I still strongly recommend heavy forward weighting for anyone trying to bring new life to their heel turns, there's probably an entire season worth of front heavy turns there for anyone before they need to think about staying off the nose like i am now.


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## MrDavey2Shoes

I’m definitely too front heavy right now. Going with a wider board, in my case a Korua, was really a game changer for getting lower on heelside. I didn’t realize my heels were catching the snow on regular width boards! Very curious what something like your boards would feel like


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## Kijima

MrDavey2Shoes said:


> I’m definitely too front heavy right now. Going with a wider board, in my case a Korua, was really a game changer for getting lower on heelside. I didn’t realize my heels were catching the snow on regular width boards! Very curious what something like your boards would feel like


I have a buddy who has a korua and also one of my 28cm wide Taiyaki 151. Korua is much stiffer especially between the feet. 
I don't want to say a negative word about other boards, but this is a game of flex, stiff boards do not help you carve.


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## Etienne

Yeah I just mentionned that back leg problem in a couple other threads and totally agree with you here. On +/+ angles I have more troubles to put power on my back leg. If I'm not cautious, I tend to pivot around my front leg, which locks me in a position where I can squat as much as I should and makes my back leg useless and rotating inward a bit. This totally kill my end of turn and chaining/jumping into the next one. When I try to really square my shoulders and knees, it's much better, but I really don't do it as well as I do with classic +/0 or +/- angles, yet… practice 

As for the Korua, I was very disoriented at first, because I too like boards that flex and have quite some rebound. But it just works. They way the tapper, setback and sidecuts are made, just make the board doesn't need that much flex. It can still carve all kinds of radius once you figure out how to sail it.


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## Kijima

Etienne said:


> Yeah I just mentionned that back leg problem in a couple other threads and totally agree with you here. On +/+ angles I have more troubles to put power on my back leg. If I'm not cautious, I tend to pivot around my front leg, which locks me in a position where I can squat as much as I should and makes my back leg useless and rotating inward a bit. This totally kill my end of turn and chaining/jumping into the next one. When I try to really square my shoulders and knees, it's much better, but I really don't do it as well as I do with classic +/0 or +/- angles, yet… practice
> 
> As for the Korua, I was very disoriented at first, because I too like boards that flex and have quite some rebound. But it just works. They way the tapper, setback and sidecuts are made, just make the board doesn't need that much flex. It can still carve all kinds of radius once you figure out how to sail it.


You feel the same thing I feel 
My angles were +45 +30, I went back to +30+15 to learn the no hands down heel turn but I have gone back to +45 +30 again.
If my front foot is not +45 I cannot pressure the side of my foot enough and the heel turn suffers.


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## NT.Thunder

Kijima said:


> I have a buddy who has a korua and also one of my 28cm wide Taiyaki 151. Korua is much stiffer especially between the feet.
> I don't want to say a negative word about other boards, but this is a game of flex, stiff boards do not help you carve.


Are you talking torsionally or longitudinal regarding stiffness and isn't this going to be relative to the speed and turn radius of the carve? Surely with a softer board there's going to be issues at higher speeds and through chopped out terrain?


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## Kijima

NT.Thunder said:


> Are you talking torsionally or longitudinal regarding stiffness and isn't this going to be relative to the speed and turn radius of the carve? Surely with a softer board there's going to be issues at higher speeds and through chopped out terrain?


Longitudinal stiffness and mostly between the feet. Yes stiff boards are good for chopped up conditions because they plow through, but this is a carving thread 
You could walk into a ferrari dealer and ask about off road performance but you would be in the wrong shop.
There is a long held belief in snowboarding that carving needs stiff equipment but my results have come by embracing flex.
Stiff boards need larger radii because they are very hard to flex and large radii boards are dogs to ride at anything less than mach 10, such that most people don't enjoy them, me included.


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## NT.Thunder

Kijima said:


> Longitudinal stiffness and mostly between the feet. Yes stiff boards are good for chopped up conditions because they plow through, but this is a carving thread
> You could walk into a ferrari dealer and ask about off road performance but you would be in the wrong shop.
> There is a long held belief in snowboarding that carving needs stiff equipment but my results have come by embracing flex.
> Stiff boards need larger radii because they are very hard to flex and large radii boards are dogs to ride at anything less than mach 10, such that most people don't enjoy them, me included.


Ah yes, I forget that some people are blessed with ultimate carving conditions most of the time, especially now with border restrictions. Make the most of your soft board because in 12 months I'm hoping you'll only be able to get 30 minutes of these conditions before the international tourists destroy your playing field.


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## Rip154

Kijima, did you try making snowskates for carving yet?


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## Kijima

NT.Thunder said:


> Ah yes, I forget that some people are blessed with ultimate carving conditions most of the time, especially now with border restrictions. Make the most of your soft board because in 12 months I'm hoping you'll only be able to get 30 minutes of these conditions before the international tourists destroy your playing field.


Catch ya later.


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## SmileSnowboards

Read through all the pages of the discussion, can't wait for some time on the mountain to try things out. Also interested in Kijima-san's boards, so beautiful!


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## Etienne

Bern trying 24/6 following this discussion, actively not over rotating my upper body and it felt great, while still getting the benefits of +/+.

I think the most benefits come from having less difference between the front and back foot. With duck, it aligns your body, with +/+ it just twist your body.

Envoyé de mon H8324 en utilisant Tapatalk


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## Scalpelman

Etienne said:


> Bern trying 24/6 following this discussion, actively not over rotating my upper body and it felt great, while still getting the benefits of +/+.
> 
> I think the most benefits come from having less difference between the front and back foot. With duck, it aligns your body, with +/+ it just twist your body.
> 
> Envoyé de mon H8324 en utilisant Tapatalk


I’ve tried lots of different angles. For carving 24/6 is my jam. 


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## ridethecliche

Kijima said:


> Longitudinal stiffness and mostly between the feet. Yes stiff boards are good for chopped up conditions because they plow through, but this is a carving thread
> You could walk into a ferrari dealer and ask about off road performance but you would be in the wrong shop.
> There is a long held belief in snowboarding that carving needs stiff equipment but my results have come by embracing flex.
> Stiff boards need larger radii because they are very hard to flex and large radii boards are dogs to ride at anything less than mach 10, such that most people don't enjoy them, me included.


This is why I realized I preferred other boards over my koruas. I love getting to mach 10 once in a rare while but that's really not how I normally ride...


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## Etienne

Boards like Swoards or SG do flex a lot indeed, so do the all-mountaint half-pipe-ish boards in a different style, yet carves a lot.


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## supern00b

2 unrelated questions:

Can this technique translate to fast/tight carving? If so, what adjustments need to be made?
re: Toe turns - Been using a +27 +3 stance, and I feel like my hips are only really involved at the end of my turn. If I focus on pushing my hips forward, the overall turn shape ends up never going across the fall line because I end up in the backseat almost immediately due to my rear foot being way more responsive than the front to the hip positioning. Instead of consciously pushing my hips forward, should I be consciously weighing my front foot beforehand to initiate the toeside turn?


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## MrDavey2Shoes

You want to be drawing a line across the fall line between arcs. It’s how you get both the board and your body in position for the next arc


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## supern00b

MrDavey2Shoes said:


> You want to be drawing a line across the fall line between arcs. It’s how you get both the board and your body in position for the next arc


Thanks for the reply; I guess to be more precise, I can do a full traverse to a full stop back up the hill on my heelside, but on my toeside, I can't end up going back up the hill. If I don't recruit my hips and sort of prioritize weighting the front foot sooner and longer, I think I can achieve this, but not sure how optimal that is technique-wise.


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## Jkb818

Scalpelman said:


> I’ve tried lots of different angles. For carving 24/6 is my jam.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Gave this a try today and felt good. The lighting was just way too flat though to really ride aggressively so I’ll have to wait for another day to give it the full test.


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## Paxford

Jkb818 said:


> Gave this a try today and felt good. The lighting was just way too flat though to really ride aggressively so I’ll have to wait for another day to give it the full test.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


24/6 is mine too! Carving for LIFE. Stance as narrow as the board will go.

I switch it to 24/-6 when I want to go freestyle. 

Thanks @Kijima!


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## Jkb818

Trying narrower might be next..I’m on reference but I’m 5’6”.


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## Scalpelman

Jkb818 said:


> Trying narrower might be next..I’m on reference but I’m 5’6”.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I’m 5’5”. Was rocking a really wide stance for awhile. Now back to reference. It’s all good. I think I was overcompensating for bad skills. Haven’t gone narrower than reference but maybe I should try?


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## Jkb818

Scalpelman said:


> I’m 5’5”. Was rocking a really wide stance for awhile. Now back to reference. It’s all good. I think I was overcompensating for bad skills. Haven’t gone narrower than reference but maybe I should try?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I think for double positive narrower makes sense


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## blowfin

NT.Thunder said:


> Ah yes, I forget that some people are blessed with ultimate carving conditions most of the time, especially now with border restrictions. Make the most of your soft board because in 12 months I'm hoping you'll only be able to get 30 minutes of these conditions before the international tourists destroy your playing field.


Well, with a seasons pass it's probably not much more than that anyway. Plus people don't go there to carve, or for anything much at all really. The real risk for that hill is it closing down due to financial issues, a lot of the infrastructure and facilities are up for sale.


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## MrDavey2Shoes

I’ve be alternating between 36/12 and 24-27/6 on some of my boards. I haven’t switched the angles between boards so it’s not apples to apples but I think I preferred the 24-27/6 this season. Going up to 36/12 on my Cafe Racer felt like I didn’t have leverage to get back toeside - id also not be able to nuance the rear toeside contact point like I wanted. I have 8.5 boots though so I’m outgunned from the start on that board. Great on heelsides though, felt fantastic.


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## Scalpelman

MrDavey2Shoes said:


> I’ve be alternating between 36/12 and 24-27/6 on some of my boards. I haven’t switched the angles between boards so it’s not apples to apples but I think I preferred the 24-27/6 this season. Going up to 36/12 on my Cafe Racer felt like I didn’t have leverage to get back toeside - id also not be able to nuance the rear toeside contact point like I wanted. I have 8.5 boots though so I’m outgunned from the start on that board. Great on heelsides though, felt fantastic.


I felt the same way. I tried 27/12 on a wide carving board and didn’t care for it. Back foot is the finesse steering foot and it wasn’t as effortless. Back to +6 rear. 


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## Kijima

...


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## MrDavey2Shoes

Kijima said:


> ...


I agree!


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