# Will flow bindings loosen up a bit?



## breeze (Dec 20, 2014)

Hey everyone! I just got some new flow haylo bindings, and I'm having a hard time getting them off at the end of a run. The rear-entry is extremely difficulty to pull down, and even the ratchets (which is what I've been doing, since they are easier than the rear-entry lever) are challenging to loosen. I was wondering if I can expect for this to get easier with time and if there are any insider tips on how to open both the ratchets and the rear-entry lever easier? Thanks!


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## larrytbull (Oct 30, 2013)

Not sure about halos but maybe your forward lean is set too high


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## breeze (Dec 20, 2014)

larrytbull said:


> Not sure about halos but maybe your forward lean is set too high


Thanks for the tip. I'll adjust and hopefully have a better day tomorrow.


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## slyder (Jan 18, 2010)

go to Flows website and watch their how-to on fitting the boots. Sounds to me like you don't have them set up correctly. We've owned 5 different pairs of Flows and never had an issue unless I had something not setup correctly. 
Which has happened to me. 

As LarryBull mentioned ck your forward lean or your strap is way to tight not allowing your boot to go fully in making the highback hard to snap closed


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## breeze (Dec 20, 2014)

slyder said:


> go to Flows website and watch their how-to on fitting the boots. Sounds to me like you don't have them set up correctly. We've owned 5 different pairs of Flows and never had an issue unless I had something not setup correctly.
> Which has happened to me.
> 
> As LarryBull mentioned ck your forward lean or your strap is way to tight not allowing your boot to go fully in making the highback hard to snap closed


Well, I'm not having an issue snapping it in, it's pulling it down to open up the high-back to start with. I'm about to play with it a little to see if it is easier with the forward lean not so far. I'll post updates


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## Ballistic_BW (Jan 12, 2015)

Hard as in the bolts are too tight and its not rotating freely at the pivot points?

My flows would catch on the lip of my rubber sole on my boats when I put the high back down to get my boot out at lift lines. 

Eventually it tore rubber sole off my heel. Was very annoying as it progressively did this throughout my day. First 3-4 times it would be fine..and then it would start snagging every time. I would have to unratchet the binding to be able to get my boot out without it snagging.


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## t21 (Dec 29, 2010)

Had a Flow 5 a while back and it was the same thing for me when it was new. The highback too would not stay down. The following weekend it started to loosen up(highback) and my boots are getting easier to pull out, i just lift up my heel when i pull my highback down. I am not sure what brand of boots you have but i wear the 32 boa and its a bit wider for the flow binding heel area but it overtime it starts to fit in. My Flow Fuse would also do the same on my boots once a while but, oh well .. i love them:happy:


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## breeze (Dec 20, 2014)

Ballistic_BW said:


> Hard as in the bolts are too tight and its not rotating freely at the pivot points?
> 
> My flows would catch on the lip of my rubber sole on my boats when I put the high back down to get my boot out at lift lines.
> 
> Eventually it tore rubber sole off my heel. Was very annoying as it progressively did this throughout my day. First 3-4 times it would be fine..and then it would start snagging every time. I would have to unratchet the binding to be able to get my boot out without it snagging.


Hard as in, maybe I'm just a weakling, but to get it to unlatch takes a lot of strength from me. However, I did just sit there and unlatch it/re-latch it about 50 times and I think it's loosened it up a bit. I also adjusted the ratchets to be a bit looser so that my foot can get in/out easier, but I'm worried it might be too loose on the mountain now. Guess I'll find out tomorrow! Haha.

t21, my boots are k2 sendit. No idea if they're wide or not compared to other boots as these are the only ones I've ever owned, haha. Glad to hear they will loosen up some more. I was cursing the things the first time I wore them, but I really think I just need to get used to it and it'll get better over time.


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## Argo (Feb 25, 2010)

try putting the cable on the other side of the ladder straps. My old flows I stored with the high backs down so it would have memory of being down and not being up. My flows now, NX2-GT, are super smoother. The highback falls right down when I unclip it.


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## breeze (Dec 20, 2014)

Argo said:


> try putting the cable on the other side of the ladder straps. My old flows I stored with the high backs down so it would have memory of being down and not being up. My flows now, NX2-GT, are super smoother. The highback falls right down when I unclip it.


That's a good idea to leave the highbacks down. Why didn't I think of that? :facepalm1: lol


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## slyder (Jan 18, 2010)

Ive had 2 sets of K2's with my Flows and both were a great fit for the bindings. My Van's on the other hand were quite bulky and the fit, not so good.


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## tokyo_dom (Jan 7, 2013)

Breeze, my wife has the Haylo's too, and she has exactly the same issue. In fact she broke her nail last weekend trying to undo the latch, and as a result, hates these bindings (the broken nail took a chunk of flesh with it)

This is not a problem with the highback not lying down etc, hers have gotten to a point where they lie down ok, but once she raises them up, the locking lever is so tight it seems like it will break the binding to close it up. We loosened the ratchets to the point she can shimmy her boots around when clipped in (this helped), but then she said it feels too loose to be comfortable boarding. And then magically on the next run, it got back to being tight to close up again (snow buildup? ratchets being closed in by the lift?)

FWIW, i bought a set of Fives at the same time as her, and i set both of our bindings up according to the flow setup options. The Haylo does not have a highback adjustment like my Fives do, so the only option i am seeing would be to move the wire mounting point one step back (which will most likely reduce in backwards lean).

I will have another go tonight to see if i can make them easier to get into. My Fives are simple as, and now that the highbacks are starting to loosen up to a point of lying down they are 10x quicker than my old Burtons.

Sorry that i cant give any solutions, but yes, i know the problem you are talking about.


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

Hi guys,

Please check that your gals are flexing their knees forward hard when they are clamping and releasing the cam. This is almost always the cause of this issue. The bindings are nearly impossible to clamp or release with calf pressure against the highback. Most dudes need to lean forward to clamp/release due to lack of Yoga. Many gals can reach the cam by twisting and flexing around the back (but the bindings will not clamp or release well this way). 

Have them try again by bending both knees deeply when they go to clamp/release. They should easily clamp/release from the bent-knee crouching position. 


STOKED!


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## tokyo_dom (Jan 7, 2013)

Thats some solid advice there... Thanks! Didnt get a chance to look at it last night but tonight i will get her to put the boots on and show me how she clamps in.

The only other thing i can think of is boot incompatibility - i.e. the diameter of her boots (Deeluxe Ray Lara) at the ankle might be bigger than the typical boot. But then i am sure i should be able to adjust for that.

Lets see how i go tonight


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

> The only other thing i can think of is boot incompatibility - i.e. the diameter of her boots (Deeluxe Ray Lara) at the ankle might be bigger than the typical boot. But then i am sure i should be able to adjust for that.


I don't think that is it. Pretty sure we have you with the other suggestion but let me know. Let's get some photos if that is not the fix.


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## tokyo_dom (Jan 7, 2013)

Ok after confirming that my wife is no more yoga-flexible than i am, i set about comparing my Fives to her Haylos... And i have fixed the problem, mostly.

First thing i noticed: When flipping the locking latch open/closed, my highback moved forward 1cm, but her Haylo moved forward a full 2.2cm. That puts a LOT of pressure on on the latching motion with the boots in place, unless the boots are quite loose in there!

Second problem is not so bad but the tab which locks the latch in place is about 2mm out of alignment with the latch, so you need considerable pressure to Lock or Unlock the latch, compared to my Fives which almost seem loose in comparison (no issues on the mountain though)

Only way to fix the forward movement of the highback during latching is to reduce forward lean. So i moved the wire mounting point one step further out. But that put the bindings at zero or perhaps negative forward lean. Thats when i noticed the haylo does have forward lean adjustment, its a screw on the side of the binding, and it was set to almost all the out (negative). Screw that a bit to the positive side to get it at least close to zero lean, and now latching motion is much easier. Locking is still very stiff, and unlikely to get any easier due to the misalignment of the tab, but at least my wife seems happy for now.


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

Please post up a photo of the misalignment.


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## tokyo_dom (Jan 7, 2013)

Will do when i get home. When the latch flips up, the tab on the highback that locks it in place hits about 2mm below the hole that it should go into. You can close it, but it takes a decent amount of force. Same for opening.


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## tokyo_dom (Jan 7, 2013)

*@Wiredsport*

Wiredsport, see the attached pic. Note that the tab is hitting the very bottom of the opening it needs to go into. It slides up fine but it takes a fair amount of force to get it in (compared to my fives)


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## fastaction (Nov 27, 2014)

Pretty cool wiredsport in these forums. I bought some Flow NX2-GT hybrid from u guys a month ago.


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

tokyo_dom said:


> Wiredsport, see the attached pic. Note that the tab is hitting the very bottom of the opening it needs to go into. It slides up fine but it takes a fair amount of force to get it in (compared to my fives)


Hi Bro,

Have a look at this vid and let me know if the motion is similar to the Flite that is shown (check at 00:20). These use the same mechanism.


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

fastaction said:


> Pretty cool wiredsport in these forums. I bought some Flow NX2-GT hybrid from u guys a month ago.


Thanks so much for the support, brother. We appreciate it.

STOKED!


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## tokyo_dom (Jan 7, 2013)

Hi WiredSport, there is no way you could clip them in with one hand like that - its far too stiff, due to that tab hitting the bottom of the hole (this is on both left and right bindings). Also that stiffness means that if opening the bindings without any boot in there like that, you would need to apply a fair bit of pressure pushing back the highback to unlock. This pressure would then fight against you as you open the latch as it pushes the highback forward a bit before opening.

But since moving the mounting point and setting her up with closer to 0 highback lean, the closing/opening of the binding latch is now apparently a lot easier (no more broken nails over the weekend). The locking part is still way too stiff, but maybe thats what you get for buying the cheapest model of the lineup, and also sight-unseen over the net (might have noticed this if we tried them in a shop). Its just a design mistake; unless they accidentally delivered ours with latches intended for another model?


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

Still not liking the sound of that bro. Something is going on and we are missing it. She should not need to be at zero degrees.

What is her foot size? What is the binding size?

Please post up more photos of the entire setup with her foot tightly laced into the boot and in the bindings.


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## rawbar (Feb 21, 2015)

My 8yo daughter was unable to manage ratchet style bindings so I ordered her a set of Flow Microns. She tried out a set locally and was able to unlatch but they didn't have her size available so I had to order online. She simply doesn't have the strength to open the latch. It's difficult even for me ... with or without feet in the bindings. 

I need to figure out how to loosen up the latch or this isn't going to work. I'm not a snowboarder (or skiier) so there's no practical way for me to be at the top to help her get in and at the bottom to get out each run. I had bought these with the idea that she would be able to independently get in and out of them. 

Not sure what to do at this point.... open and close 500 times to loosen things up or send them back.


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## jten9 (Oct 29, 2014)

I put my 6yr old son in microns, and they are fairly easy to latch/unlatch. They did loosen up a bit from when they were new, but even then they weren't terribly stiff.

You do have to ensure that the rider is flexing forward just a bit, not leaning back into the highbacks when latching/unlatching. 

The microns are working great for my son, he can be fairly independent getting in and out of the bindings.


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## breeze (Dec 20, 2014)

Rawbar,

My bindings have loosened up immensely since I first got them. What worked for me was 
1.)Store the bindings with the highbacks down. It makes the whole process much smoother.
2.)Make sure the ratchets aren't too tight. They don't need to be as tight as regular bindings to be secure, so having then a little looser to be able to easily kick in and out will not affect performance. If her foot isn't getting in far enough it will be near impossible to latch. Occasionally I can't get my foot in far enough due to snow build-up and my male friends can manage to latch it for me, but there's no way I can do it unless I'm all the way in. It's also worthwhile to lead out snow buildup after each run. Takes 2 seconds and I'm still out of my bindings faster than everyone else.
3.)When you're home, just work the latch a bunch of times. I sat there watching a TV sow and just undid them, and redid them, about 500 times. It really helped, I noticed a difference the very next time I went out.
4.)as others have said, make sure she's bending her knees when she's un-latching.
5.)Make sure her gloves stay on while she's doing it. If I take off my mittens often times I can't get enough strength because the pressure from pushing down starts hurting. This is usually only on really cold days where it's started to freeze, but still a good habit.
6.)It might help to adjust the forward lean to zero for getting it to latch. I like a lot of forward lean, so I don't have mine set like that, but it is a tiny bit easier to latch when forward lean is set to 0.

FWIW, I was the original poster (a 5'0 110lb female) and I loveeeee my bindings now that I've learned to use them properly and they've loosened up. It's doubtful I will ever buy anything but flows again.


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## rawbar (Feb 21, 2015)

thanks all, i'll try to see if i can break these in to the point where my daughter can undo them.


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## Helix (Feb 23, 2015)

After a couple days of riding there's a noticeable difference in my NX2's. The front binding is *much* harder to unlatch than the rear one, so I'm guessing they'll loosen up after a bit of use/break in. That said, NX2's are not microns.


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