# ThirtyTwo sizing



## Kijima (Mar 3, 2019)

I have a left big toe nail that turns black every season. The others do not. 
A good solution could be upsizing or in my case regular nail clipping and filing.


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## kierandugdale (Oct 21, 2019)

Kijima said:


> I have a left big toe nail that turns black every season. The others do not.
> A good solution could be upsizing or in my case regular nail clipping and filing.


Think if I go up a half size that should be perfect. That’s if the sizing is the same as in 2016. Not sure if it is different now with the 1 to 1 lasting. As in the Thirty Two website is that’s that the boots are true to normal shoe size. I am normally a uk 7.5 in normal shoe size.


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## Kijima (Mar 3, 2019)

kierandugdale said:


> Think if I go up a half size that should be perfect. That’s if the sizing is the same as in 2016. Not sure if it is different now with the 1 to 1 lasting. As in the Thirty Two website is that’s that the boots are true to normal shoe size. I am normally a uk 7.5 in normal shoe size.


Email thirtytwo and ask if they use a true half size last or are they using a full size shell with thicker insole to make a half size boot.


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## Radialhead (Jan 3, 2018)

1 to 1 lasting means each size has its own last. So 8.5 will use a different last to 8 & 9. There are a million posts in this section about how to measure your feet to get the right size; pick any & look for Wiredsport's instructions. If you wear 7.5 shoes, you should probably be wearing 6.5-7 snowboard boots.


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## Kijima (Mar 3, 2019)

Each size or each half size? 
Details. .


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## Radialhead (Jan 3, 2018)

Half sizes are still sizes. They may be half sizes in US sizing but they're not in Euro or mondo sizing.


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## Kijima (Mar 3, 2019)

Excellent point you have


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## Seppuccu (Dec 4, 2012)

kierandugdale said:


> Think if I go up a half size that should be perfect. That’s if the sizing is the same as in 2016. Not sure if it is different now with the 1 to 1 lasting. As in the Thirty Two website is that’s that the boots are true to normal shoe size. I am normally a uk 7.5 in normal shoe size.


Don't do it man! You're on the wrong track. I got a black toenail from 32TMs half a size too big. Radialhead got it right - you should size _down_, not up. Get your foot apropriately measured and then pick accordingly.


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## WigMar (Mar 17, 2019)

If there's too much movement in a boot, your foot slides forward and gets toe bang. If boots are too small, also toe bang. Sometimes modifications to your boots are better than changing sizes. Maybe the boot fits correctly except for the toe area. In that case, a little work on those liners could make all your toes happy. Heel lifts pull your toes back from the front while locking your heels into the pocket. If that's not enough, you can make a slit or three in the liner with a razor blade where the hot spot is. If that's not enough, you can remove more foam and cover that with duct tape. There's really no reason to deal with foot pain. Get in there and make those boots fit.


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## drblast (Feb 28, 2017)

My feet are 28cm pretty much exactly. _Maybe_ 28.1 on the left foot but it really depends on how much I pronate. With good arch support it's 28.

I get TM2 XLT's in 280 Mondo (US10) and they are very tight at first and require heat molding. After five days on snow they're comfy and no longer causing numbness or pain. After 20 days they feel like stiff slippers made for my feet. After 50 days I can put those heel hold discs in to tighten things up a bit.

In my experience trusting the Mondopoint size to be correct with 32 is the way to go.


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

I always have to size up half a size in ThirtyTwos.

My foot size is 28.3cm. I wear US10.5 casual shoes and 10.5 in almost all other boot brands. With 32 I have to wear US11. Even the new ones, tried a 2020 TM2 in both 10.5 and 11. No way I would use the 10.5 but the 11 was perfect and I have owned US11 ThirtyTwo and US10.5 before. The 10.5 i had to get rid of because they were simply impossible. And currently, I am actually wearing a US10.5 Vans with a US11 ThirtyTwo liner... I love their performance liner. Very comfortable and stiff but most importantly in my case, because I have narrow feet, it is plush and high volume, so I get great heel hold and support from it.

Go to a shop, try a few boots on. Get the ones that fit best. And best = snug fit with absolutely no heel movement. Toes touching the front but zero discomfort. Any discomfort in the store equals 1,000x on the mountain.

You don't HAVE to be in any size. Your size is the boot that fits best.


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

drblast said:


> My feet are 28cm pretty much exactly. _Maybe_ 28.1 on the left foot but it really depends on how much I pronate. With good arch support it's 28.
> 
> I get TM2 XLT's in 280 Mondo (US10) and they are very tight at first and require heat molding. After five days on snow they're comfy and no longer causing numbness or pain. After 20 days they feel like stiff slippers made for my feet. After 50 days I can put those heel hold discs in to tighten things up a bit.
> 
> In my experience trusting the Mondopoint size to be correct with 32 is the way to go.


Pretty much the same experience. 24.5cm feet, 24.5cm mondo 32 XLT. Super (read as uncomfy) tight the first days. Soon, toes are comfy. Mondo sizing was the right fit.


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

F1EA said:


> You don't HAVE to be in any size. Your size is the boot that fits best.


Problem is just, that whatever sits in the shop, won't on the slope at day 10 ?‍♀

My rule of thumb meanwhile is that in the shop, the boot has to feel too tight. Only then it'll become a good long lasting partner for the slopes.

Every boot I had which was comfy in the show, was too large soon on slopes (especially heel lift was the issue).


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## kierandugdale (Oct 21, 2019)

F1EA said:


> I always have to size up half a size in ThirtyTwos.
> 
> My foot size is 28.3cm. I wear US10.5 casual shoes and 10.5 in almost all other boot brands. With 32 I have to wear US11. Even the new ones, tried a 2020 TM2 in both 10.5 and 11. No way I would use the 10.5 but the 11 was perfect and I have owned US11 ThirtyTwo and US10.5 before. The 10.5 i had to get rid of because they were simply impossible. And currently, I am actually wearing a US10.5 Vans with a US11 ThirtyTwo liner... I love their performance liner. Very comfortable and stiff but most importantly in my case, because I have narrow feet, it is plush and high volume, so I get great heel hold and support from it.
> 
> ...


thanks for the advice. I have already owned a pair of 32 lashed in a size UK 8 and these were too small on the left foot and my big toe was getting a lot of pair due to them been too small and not moving due to been to big. I had these boots for around 3 years so the liner would of packed out. The way round to be able to ride with less pain was wear a thinner snowboard sock.
I have printed out a mondo measurement for my foot. I will use this to help me. However I think straight away I need the 8.5 size due to the fact that I was in pain with the 8.0 size.


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

neni said:


> Problem is just, that whatever sits in the shop, won't on the slope at day 10 ?‍♀
> 
> My rule of thumb meanwhile is that in the shop, the boot has to feel too tight. Only then it'll become a good long lasting partner for the slopes.
> 
> Every boot I had which was comfy in the show, was too large soon on slopes (especially heel lift was the issue).


Likewise for "too tight". What feels too tight, or uncomfortable in the shop = hell on the slopes.

Maybe I am already used to what snug means because I don't really size up on normal shoes. So for me, top tight is really too tight. Even the size 11 ThirtyTwos are a bit too tight in the shop and maybe the first week, but painless and I can feel the heel hold is there. The 10.5 is just undoable. Immediate pain on the middle toe which gets curled, and in my previous 10.5 it was kind of doable in the shop but then my feet went totally numb in the mountain.

Similar but opposite case with Burton Ions. US10.5 has always been perfect length, but waaaaay to wide on the toes and just snug enough on the heels. 10.5 Imperials fit perfect.

Also 10.5 Vans fit perfect. But the liner is very low volume and soft... i like the ThirtyTwo liner much better.

Salomon... I think I can squeeze into a US10. At least in the shop it's manageable.

So basically and in summary... i can roam about size 10 and 11 depending on the boot... which to me it's far more important and true than my "true" size.

According to "true" size, the 10.5 Burton Ions fit... yet they don't.
The Salomon 10 are too small... but not really.
The ThirtyTwo 11 are too big... but... they're ok. And far better than 10.5....


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

Oh by the way, I also have a custom Intuition liner.... the liner is size US10, yet it is about a full 1cm longer than the US11 liner.

I put a photo a long time ago here: ThirtyTwo Boots run Small?


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## kierandugdale (Oct 21, 2019)

F1EA said:


> Oh by the way, I also have a custom Intuition liner.... the liner is size US10, yet it is about a full 1cm longer than the US11 liner.
> 
> I put a photo a long time ago here: ThirtyTwo Boots run Small?


Iv heard people say online they normally have to size up half a size with 32 as they feel they run smaller than other brands


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

kierandugdale said:


> Iv heard people say online they normally have to size up half a size with 32 as they feel they run smaller than other brands


I wouldn't doubt it. But... to be honest, I am certain you will hear everything: they run small, they run true to size, they run big you can size down...

All feet are different, so there will be as many opinions as there are feet. Just go with whatever fits your foot comfortably and don't care about anything else.


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## kierandugdale (Oct 21, 2019)

F1EA said:


> I wouldn't doubt it. But... to be honest, I am certain you will hear everything: they run small, they run true to size, they run big you can size down...
> 
> All feet are different, so there will be as many opinions as there are feet. Just go with whatever fits your foot comfortably and don't care about anything else.


Im going to order a few different sizes and then send back the others. It’s a hour and half drive to closest snowboard shop.


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## drblast (Feb 28, 2017)

More anecdata: after measuring my feet I went and tried on many, many boots in my Mondopoint size. The only ones that didn't cause immediate discomfort or pain were the 32's. Salomon (not wide) - forget it, couldn't get those off fast enough and I think they were too narrow. Burtons fit fairly well but had a pressure point in my big toe that felt like a pebble was stuck in the front of the boot. I used to have size 10 Vans that turned my toes purple.

I'm not advocating buying boots that cause discomfort or pain in the hope it packs out and goes away. But I do think brand new boots that haven't been heat molded should fit tight and if they're not causing your feet to go numb within an hour, they're probably going to pack out and be too big after 5-10 days. I know that because it's happened every single time I've gotten 10.5 size boots because they felt comfortable in the shop.

By far the most comfortable boots I've had initially were Salomon Synapse Wide 10.5. Those felt GREAT. But I noticed after about 20 days on them I had to really tighten the laces hard to get the same level of response as when they were new. That put pressure on my feet and ankles and didn't feel so great anymore, so when I'd ride on consecutive days I alternated riding with those and an older pair of boots so that the pressure points wouldn't be in the same place. Then it dawned on me that maybe the slop and extra room in the boots was causing my foot to shift around which along with the added pressure of very tight laces, was causing all of these problems.

So I decided to go with my Mondopoint size and find the brand of boots that fit me best in that size. I can now ride as many consecutive days as I want to without issue. I even brought my Synapse Wides on a week-long trip figuring I'd need to preemptively swap out boots so that my feet and calves wouldn't get sore. I tried that on the second day and after two runs of swimming in my too-big Synapses, feeling uncomfortable and like I lost 50% of the control on my board, I ran to the car and put on my TM2's.

If 32's aren't fitting in your Mondo size, don't size up to try to fix it. Find a different brand that fits you correctly.


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

drblast said:


> More anecdata: after measuring my feet I went and tried on many, many boots in my Mondopoint size. The only ones that didn't cause immediate discomfort or pain were the 32's. Salomon (not wide) - forget it, couldn't get those off fast enough and I think they were too narrow. Burtons fit fairly well but had a pressure point in my big toe that felt like a pebble was stuck in the front of the boot. I used to have size 10 Vans that turned my toes purple.
> 
> I'm not advocating buying boots that cause discomfort or pain in the hope it packs out and goes away. But I do think brand new boots that haven't been heat molded should fit tight and if they're not causing your feet to go numb within an hour, they're probably going to pack out and be too big after 5-10 days. I know that because it's happened every single time I've gotten 10.5 size boots because they felt comfortable in the shop.
> 
> ...


Yep, I agree with most. Expect that instead of going with the brand that fits at your mondo size... I "advocate" going with the boot that fits regardless of your mondo. But do measure your feet.... then know that you can reasonably be mondo +/- half a size depending on the brand/boot.

But yes, most importantly: do NOT decide on a specific boot/brand then figure out the fit. Shop with an open mind (and that includes size).


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

He sizes up half a size on ThirtyTwos:


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## drblast (Feb 28, 2017)

F1EA said:


> Yep, I agree with most. Expect that instead of going with the brand that fits at your mondo size... I "advocate" going with the boot that fits regardless of your mondo. But do measure your feet.... then know that you can reasonably be mondo +/- half a size depending on the brand/boot.
> 
> But yes, most importantly: do NOT decide on a specific boot/brand then figure out the fit. Shop with an open mind (and that includes size).


I agree with getting the boot that fits, but knowing what "fits" is a near impossibility until you've already bought the boots and they've broken in and packed out a bit. All of my boots have fit, for varying levels of "fit," at the time that I bought them. It wasn't until I tried to get into the smallest possible boots that didn't cause immediate pain that I found boots that work long term. And what's weird is that it's the brand that many people say you should size up a half size on, and I'm at the very upper end of the size range, even over it by a mm on my left foot. I'm a prime candidate for that advice and if I took it I'd be swimming in my TM2's after 10 days and very unhappy.

If 32 ends up being the brand that's very-tight-but-not-painful, be sure put in insoles with enough arch support so that your feet don't flatten out and push your toes into the front of the boot as you ride. Proper arch support can buy you a mm or two of extra space in the front of the boot. TM2's work very well for me, but TM2's with Remind Cush insoles are worlds better. The stock insoles in TM2's do nothing for you.


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

Yeah I actually do use insoles. They help a LOT. Even on the US11 shells. The middle toe gets beat up without insoles.

In my 10.5 Vans Im using Superfeet blue (very thin, low volume, medium arch). Can't use the green because it's too tight. Also even after 2 seasons on them, I only need the very thin heel-hold thingies for extra heel hold, which I added since day 1. But, if i get trigger happy and tighten too much my feet go numb... or if I add the thick heel holders = numb feet too. It happens every once in a while (that I overtighten the boas), maybe like 1 in 3 days, so I have to deal with the boa tightness to bring my foot back to life.

With the US11 shell i can use Superfeet Green, which I prefer because it has a bit more cushioning and more arch support. I would also need to the thick heel hold thingies (5mm) by the end of the season... but 0 numbness and I can wear the boots all day anyday with no issues. Also, dont remember my feet ever going numb with the US11 shell.


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## drblast (Feb 28, 2017)

Superfeet are great too.

It's funny, we think of feet as solid planks that don't move and have one "size" but there are so many variables. After my knee surgery two years ago I had to stay off my right foot for two months, then learn to walk again over the next two. I wore holes in the insoles of my sneakers as the toes on my right foot dug in to try to maintain my balance. I never realized how much our feet are constantly moving and adjusting just to maintain balance.

You can try this in bare feet with a ruler; stand on the ruler then shift your weight to your lateral or medial side then bend your ankle all around. Your toes will grow and shrink by at least half a centimeter as you do this. Flatten your feet completely and you can easily gain a shoe size. Realize that this is all happening constantly as you're riding. A well-fitting boot that matches your foot shape and insoles that prevent your foot from flattening out will prevent your toes from jamming into the front of the boot and the extra volume from a thick insole in the right place can counter-intuitively give your foot more room.

Since I could barely walk two summers ago I spent a _lot_ of time looking at my feet, watching the excellent boot fit videos on Angry Snowboarder, and buying lots of different insoles to get that perfect fit. Luckily for me they're the Remind Cush which are cheaper than the Medic or Superfeet.


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

Yup. Insoles are a day and night difference in all day comfort.

The way I see it, feet have too many variables/dimensions to try and box it under just "length". So... your "proper" size is just that... length. I guess on wide boots you add width, but that's about it, and it doesn't even say much about how wide unless you really dig into it, as most boots are just wide or not.

Then you also have arch height. Shape of toes. Shape and size of ankles. The calf and shins... any little toe or ankle "deformity"... etc.

In fact, i never have issues with my left foot. My boots all fit perfectly on the left foot. The right foot is a headache... It's taller, longer, skinnier; yet both are still mondo 285, just a slightly different shape.


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## BoardieK (Dec 21, 2015)

I have 32 Focus Boas with the Elite liner and customisable arch support which I found better than the Superfeet/Sidas insoles I'd tried on previous boots. These are new boots and super stiff. I diy heat moulded them before use and I've worn them for about 15 full days so far, they are jyst starting to break in but I still have a bit too much compression across the widest part. 

In comparision to my Flow Hylites I'd say the are going to last a fair bit longer, maybe 50% longer, but that is probably because they are 20% heavier.


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

kierandugdale said:


> I used to have a pair of Thirty Two Lashed FALL 2016 mens snowboard boots in size UK 8.0. I got rid of these boots in the end due to the left foot been a tiny bit too small in length giving me pain. I then got a pair of Adidas Response 3MC ADV snowboard boots in size UK 8.5. After a week of riding in these on holiday they gave me boot pain and also heel lift. I want to go back to Thirty Two boots, I'm thinking of the Mullair, TM(May be too stiff), TM3 or Lashed again, as I want a premium boot and comfort for all mountain riding. Is the elite fit liner as comfy as the team fit liner in the Lashed as the comfort was great apart from length. Also I'm unsure about the size I should get due to the 1 to 1 lasting, what does this mean? Would size UK 8.5 be best.
> Would appreciate the advice on the best size and the elite liner.
> Thanks
> Kieran


Hi Kieran,
Before you get too deep in I would strongly suggest that you take your own barefoot measurements (both length and width). 

Please measure your feet using this method:



Kick your heel (barefoot please, no socks) back against a wall. Mark the floor exactly at the tip of your toe (the one that sticks out furthest - which toe this is will vary by rider). Measure from the mark on the floor to the wall. That is your foot length and is the only measurement that you will want to use. Measure in centimeters if possible, but if not, take inches and multiply by 2.54 (example: an 11.25 inch foot x 2.54 = 28.57 centimeters). For width please place the inside (medial side) of your foot against a wall. Please then measure from the wall out to the widest point on the lateral (outside) of your foot.


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## kierandugdale (Oct 21, 2019)

F1EA said:


> Yep, I agree with most. Expect that instead of going with the brand that fits at your mondo size... I "advocate" going with the boot that fits regardless of your mondo. But do measure your feet.... then know that you can reasonably be mondo +/- half a size depending on the brand/boot.
> 
> But yes, most importantly: do NOT decide on a specific boot/brand then figure out the fit. Shop with an open mind (and that includes size).


I emailed Thirty Two direct and they suggest going up half a size than normal shoe size. I have had really bad foot pain from vans aura pro and from Adidas response. Not sure if this is due to the boa. So I want to go back to 32 as these fitted the best and was best for comfort, also I want to go back to laces as I don’t want boa again and get foot pain. Both the vans and Adidas was in the same places at bottom of tongue area when it curls up. I have ordered a 8.0 and 8.5 so far.


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

kierandugdale said:


> I emailed Thirty Two direct and they suggest going up half a size than normal shoe size.


Hi Kieran,
You have some incorrect advice there. I pasted the size chart from 32's website below. It matches every other brand's sizing guides because in snowboard boots your foot measurement in millimeters is always your Mondopoint size. This is not a conversion. Because of that your snowboard boot size will always be smaller than your US shoe size. If you are having pain I would strongly suggest that you measure your feet (both length and width) and post those measurements here. STOKED!


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## ridethecliche (Feb 27, 2019)

I wear a size 8.5 in sneakers and skate shoes. I bought an 8.5 in the TM2. It was too big.

Just bought an 8 in TM3 and it's better. I think I could have sized down to a 7.5 if I used a small heel lift to get my heel in the pocket better.


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

ridethecliche said:


> I wear a size 8.5 in sneakers and skate shoes. I bought an 8.5 in the TM2. It was too big.
> 
> Just bought an 8 in TM3 and it's better. I think I could have sized down to a 7.5 if I used a small heel lift to get my heel in the pocket better.


Yep. That's why street shoe sizing is absolutely irrelevant.
You can wear different sizes on different brand and type of street shoes.... same with snowboard boots.
I have US10, 10.5 and 11 shoes. They all fit. I even have a pair that's size 9... they also fit very well. Should I size down on those 9s? to US8.5 boots. That should be fun.


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## kierandugdale (Oct 21, 2019)

Wiredsport said:


> Hi Kieran,
> You have some incorrect advice there. I pasted the size chart from 32's website below. It matches every other brand's sizing guides because in snowboard boots your foot measurement in millimeters is always your Mondopoint size. This is not a conversion. Because of that your snowboard boot size will always be smaller than your US shoe size. If you are having pain I would strongly suggest that you measure your feet (both length and width) and post those measurements here. STOKED!
> 
> View attachment 152856










This is different to Adidas. I measured my feet and they are 26.2 on left and 26 on right


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

Hi Kieran,

26 cm is Mondopoint 260 or size 8 US in snowboard boots (*UK 7). 26.2 cm is Mondopoint 265 or size 8.5 US in snowboard boots (*UK 7.5). We will definitely need your width for each foot as well. There is no way to get this correct without barefoot length and width measurements for each foot. If possible please post up images of your barefoot measurements being taken.

STOKED!


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

BoardieK said:


> I have 32 Focus Boas with the Elite liner and customisable arch support which I found better than the Superfeet/Sidas insoles I'd tried on previous boots. These are new boots and super stiff. I diy heat moulded them before use and I've worn them for about 15 full days so far, they are jyst starting to break in but I still have a bit too much compression across the widest part.
> 
> In comparision to my Flow Hylites I'd say the are going to last a fair bit longer, maybe 50% longer, but that is probably because they are 20% heavier.


I had Focus Boas before.... they last a LONG time. Lots of things to help with flex retention. Definitely a bad-ass boot but I had to ditch mine after about 20days because they were too small and didn't quite break in to where they felt ok. 

I gotta say Vans Verse are also pretty sturdy. Mine look almost like new on the outside (minus a heel cup attack from Union Stratas). After about 2 seasons, I think they're just now starting to feel broken in, and I still have the plastic inserts for the tongues to add...


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## kierandugdale (Oct 21, 2019)

F1EA said:


> I had Focus Boas before.... they last a LONG time. Lots of things to help with flex retention. Definitely a bad-ass boot but I had to ditch mine after about 20days because they were too small and didn't quite break in to where they felt ok.
> 
> I gotta say Vans Verse are also pretty sturdy. Mine look almost like new on the outside (minus a heel cup attack from Union Stratas). After about 2 seasons, I think they're just now starting to feel broken in, and I still have the plastic inserts for the tongues to add...


The 32 mullair boots have arrived. I think the size UK 8.0 are the best. Have size larger than my normal shoe size. My left foot is bigger than my right. I can feel the big toe rubbing the end of the liner and when bending my legs the toes come off the end of the liner. On my right foot I can’t feel the liner at the end as much. Do you think this is the best size?


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## kierandugdale (Oct 21, 2019)

F1EA said:


> I had Focus Boas before.... they last a LONG time. Lots of things to help with flex retention. Definitely a bad-ass boot but I had to ditch mine after about 20days because they were too small and didn't quite break in to where they felt ok.
> 
> I gotta say Vans Verse are also pretty sturdy. Mine look almost like new on the outside (minus a heel cup attack from Union Stratas). After about 2 seasons, I think they're just now starting to feel broken in, and I still have the plastic inserts for the tongues to add...


The 32 mullair boots have arrived. I think the size UK 8.0 are the best. Have size larger than my normal shoe size. My left foot is bigger than my right. I can feel the big toe rubbing the end of the liner and when bending my legs the toes come off the end of the liner. On my right foot I can’t feel the liner at the end as much. Do you think this is the best size?


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

kierandugdale said:


> The 32 mullair boots have arrived. I think the size UK 8.0 are the best. Have size larger than my normal shoe size. My left foot is bigger than my right. I can feel the big toe rubbing the end of the liner and when bending my legs the toes come off the end of the liner. On my right foot I can’t feel the liner at the end as much. Do you think this is the best size?


You cannot feel the end of the liner as much, or at all?

If you can't feel it at all, I would try UK7.5 and see if you can handle the pressure on the toes in your longer foot. So if your left foot can handle the squeeze from UK7.5, go with that. If not, stick with the UK8, or find a different boot altogether.

Also, check your width as Wiredsport mentioned.

But definitely ignore your street shoe sizing. It means nothing. Half a size more, less or equal than street shoe doesn't mean anything because there's a million different types of street shoes and everyone considers big/small/fit differently.


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

kierandugdale said:


> The 32 mullair boots have arrived. I think the size UK 8.0 are the best. Have size larger than my normal shoe size. My left foot is bigger than my right. I can feel the big toe rubbing the end of the liner and when bending my legs the toes come off the end of the liner. On my right foot I can’t feel the liner at the end as much. Do you think this is the best size?


In a correctly fit snowboard boot you will have firm pressure (toes and heels) into the compliant materials of the liner. This is after the break in period. Keep in mind that all boots will break in ~ 1 full cm (one US boot size).

I cannot suggest strongly enough that you check your barefoot width as well (and please post images).


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## Radialhead (Jan 3, 2018)

kierandugdale said:


> View attachment 152857
> This is different to Adidas. I measured my feet and they are 26.2 on left and 26 on right


That's for shoes not snowboard boots. The Adidas boot chart puts you in a UK8. Adidas Snowboard Boot International Size Chart Table fitting info


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## Fletch7 (Jul 23, 2018)

kierandugdale said:


> The 32 mullair boots have arrived. I think the size UK 8.0 are the best. Have size larger than my normal shoe size. My left foot is bigger than my right. I can feel the big toe rubbing the end of the liner and when bending my legs the toes come off the end of the liner. On my right foot I can’t feel the liner at the end as much. Do you think this is the best size?


I have the TM2 XLT's in a UK 9.5, which is also my shoe size and mondo size. My left big toe also touches the end of the boot more than the right, but not really at all when I bend at the knees. When I first got the boots my toes were maybe touching the end a little too much, but after heat moulding and putting my custom insoles in it pulled my toes back very slightly so that my toes still touch but with no pain when riding. Custom insoles stop your arch collapsing, which could put more pressure on your big toes as your foot splays. I would recommend that everyone use either an off the shelf insole that fits your foot or go for a complete custom insole. It's money well spent.


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## kierandugdale (Oct 21, 2019)

Fletch7 said:


> I have the TM2 XLT's in a UK 9.5, which is also my shoe size and mondo size. My left big toe also touches the end of the boot more than the right, but not really at all when I bend at the knees. When I first got the boots my toes were maybe touching the end a little too much, but after heat moulding and putting my custom insoles in it pulled my toes back very slightly so that my toes still touch but with no pain when riding. Custom insoles stop your arch collapsing, which could put more pressure on your big toes as your foot splays. I would recommend that everyone use either an off the shelf insole that fits your foot or go for a complete custom insole. It's money well spent.


I have also ordered an uk 7.5 which is my normal shoe size. If I can walk in these without pain then I will go for this size as I know they will pack out over time. As I do a week holiday each year and a weekend holiday I don’t ride these boots that much so will take a lot longer to break in. Also will last years to come. With the 32 mullair they come with the customer footbed with the arch support to be added.


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

kierandugdale said:


> I have also ordered an uk 7.5 which is my normal shoe size. If I can walk in these without pain then I will go for this size as I know they will pack out over time. As I do a week holiday each year and a weekend holiday I don’t ride these boots that much so will take a lot longer to break in. Also will last years to come. With the 32 mullair they come with the customer footbed with the arch support to be added.


Yeah that's a good idea. Once you try the two sizes you will know which is better.

This guy also sizes up on ThrityTwo:





1 full size on TM2 and half a size on TM3 (which has the elite liner). Then he sizes down on Adidas. His buddy from that other youtube channel didn't and... i posted in some other thread him talking about his painful experience.

Also, most people refer to sizing up or down from normal shoes. I refer to it relative to your mondo size.


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## Amy1988 (Feb 22, 2020)

Hi sorry to butt in - I'm in the middle of deciding on my second pair of boots (first pair were basically comfy from day 1 and in hindsight way too big - I now get numb toes after a few hours through either gripping with my toes or doing everything up too tight to compensate for the loose boots). 

I've bought a pair of ThirtyTwo TM2s (ladies) in size 4 - normal shoe size is 4.5/5 - and I think this is spot on as boots are uncomfortable when standing up straight but in board stance I can still feel the liner when I wiggle my toes. I was also sized as a 4 using a ThirtyTwo sizing board. I'll admit I haven't tried on lots of boots as a) I live in the Highlands and so even travelling 3-4h I'm lucky if stores stock more than 2 brands of ladies boots and b) I have real issues with heel lift and I feel like ThirtyTwo boots have been the only brand to fix that.

However, the TM2s cause complete numbness in both feet just wearing them in the house for 15mins - and when I take them off there are large red pressure marks on the tops of both feet. I find the heel holds pretty uncomfortable too (like someone is pinching either side of my achilles heel with their thumb and fore finger). The numbness is by far my biggest problem though - will the padding in the tongue of the liner pack out (either naturally or by heat moulding) or should I be considering another boot? Most issues seem to relate to length of boot/fitting an alternative footed but my issue seems to be coming from above.. 

Thoughts appreciated.. Off to Banff in 5 weeks so have some time to try different options (and the TM2s can still be returned). Ta!


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## WigMar (Mar 17, 2019)

It's common to have numbness from cutting off the circulation to the veins on the top of the foot. If you can heat mold those liners, it will make a difference. Under heat, the EVS foam moves from areas of high to low compression. It gets out of the way of your foot and fills in the low areas. You can get rid of hot spots like on top of your feet when heat molding. Build up some padding on your foot where you have hot spots- I often use moleskin or adhesive foam. Then do the heat mold and you should be good to ride. Here's a video on how to heat mold yourself.

If there's still problems there, more aggressive measures can be taken. All of my boot liners are modified in one way or another.


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

Amy1988 said:


> Hi sorry to butt in - I'm in the middle of deciding on my second pair of boots (first pair were basically comfy from day 1 and in hindsight way too big - I now get numb toes after a few hours through either gripping with my toes or doing everything up too tight to compensate for the loose boots).
> 
> I've bought a pair of ThirtyTwo TM2s (ladies) in size 4 - normal shoe size is 4.5/5 - and I think this is spot on as boots are uncomfortable when standing up straight but in board stance I can still feel the liner when I wiggle my toes. I was also sized as a 4 using a ThirtyTwo sizing board. I'll admit I haven't tried on lots of boots as a) I live in the Highlands and so even travelling 3-4h I'm lucky if stores stock more than 2 brands of ladies boots and b) I have real issues with heel lift and I feel like ThirtyTwo boots have been the only brand to fix that.
> 
> ...


Try a heat-mold or lower volume insoles.


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## Amy1988 (Feb 22, 2020)

Thanks guys! There's not much to the insole at all fortunately so don't think I can increase the 'head height' by changing that out. I suppose my worry with the heat moulding is that I can't know if it's going to fix the problem before I do it.. And then I won't be able to return/exchange the boots..!


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

Amy1988 said:


> Thanks guys! There's not much to the insole at all fortunately so don't think I can increase the 'head height' by changing that out. I suppose my worry with the heat moulding is that I can't know if it's going to fix the problem before I do it.. And then I won't be able to return/exchange the boots..!


You want to DECREASE the height of your instep. ThirtyTwo insoles are fairly thick, so a lower volume insole helps to get the top of your feet a little lower and give those veins a little room to flow.

Also heat molding will help with the top of foot issue.

Why would they not let you return your boots if you heat mold?? Dont let em walk over you.

Otherwise, do it yourself at home and return them if it doesn't work. They'll never know and it makes no difference because they can reheat for the next person with no issues.


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## kierandugdale (Oct 21, 2019)

Wiredsport said:


> Hi Kieran,
> Before you get too deep in I would strongly suggest that you take your own barefoot measurements (both length and width).
> 
> Please measure your feet using this method:
> ...


Left foot is 25.8cm and 9cm wide. Right is 25.2cm and 9cm wide.


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

Important UPDATE:
For the ThirtyTwo with the Elite Liner, go your mondo size. It's a little tight on the toes, but not brutal like on the performance liner. Need to be heat-molded before riding but ok.Tried both Mullair and TM3 at the shop. Half size up is ok, only if the liner doesn't pack much, but I'm not sure because it's a new liner...

Performance liner... yeah I have to go half size bigger than mondo. No question on that one.


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## kierandugdale (Oct 21, 2019)

F1EA said:


> Important UPDATE:
> For the ThirtyTwo with the Elite Liner, go your mondo size. It's a little tight on the toes, but not brutal like on the performance liner. Need to be heat-molded before riding but ok.Tried both Mullair and TM3 at the shop. Half size up is ok, only if the liner doesn't pack much, but I'm not sure because it's a new liner...
> 
> Performance liner... yeah I have to go half size bigger than mondo. No question on that one.


Thank a lot for the info much appreciated.


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## snowman55 (Feb 17, 2012)

My 32 Focus Boa, which has the 32's Elite liner, was tight around the toe and would cause numbness when I first got it. I got it heat molded and it now fits like a glove. I sized down to my Mondo size which ended up being a 1/2 size smaller than my shoe size. I'm glad I did.


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

kierandugdale said:


> Thank a lot for the info much appreciated.


No problem.

The downside is... that the Elite does not offer the same ankle/heel hold. In fact, I would rather wear a US11 TM2 (performance liner) than a 10.5 TM3 (elite).

The TM3 feel wider on the front of the foot and my feet actually have a lot of room in it, which I have NEVER felt with ThirtyTwo boots before.

So for people in general...
Narrow feet I think the performance liner is better. Then for people with wider feet, the elite is better. If you can fit your mondo in a Performance liner, you're golden. And if you find the performance liner boots too tight, try an Elite boot. Also the elite liner is quite a bit softer.


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## ridethecliche (Feb 27, 2019)

I honestly don't think that these comparisons are worth much.
I wear an 8.5 running shoe where I can feel my big toe touching the end of the shoe. I literally wear through the toe sometimes.

I got a size 8 TM3. I agree the heel hold could be better, but it's really not that hard of an issue to fix.I have low volume heels so i just put a bunch of foam to caress the area around the achilles tendon, threw in the black heel hold donut and called it a day.

I'm still working out the kinks, but this is way better than the TM2's that I bought in my sneaker size. Those were way too big for me. I bet I could fit into a 7.5 TM3 if i used heel lifts.

The point is... as @Nivek said elsewhere... Thirty two sizing stuff is all over the place. You have to try things out before you commit. That said... for all I know, I should get rid of these boots and get something different because it's likely that something else fits my foot better from the getgo.


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

ridethecliche said:


> I honestly don't think that these comparisons are worth much.
> I wear an 8.5 running shoe where I can feel my big toe touching the end of the shoe. I literally wear through the toe sometimes.
> 
> I got a size 8 TM3. I agree the heel hold could be better, but it's really not that hard of an issue to fix.I have low volume heels so i just put a bunch of foam to caress the area around the achilles tendon, threw in the black heel hold donut and called it a day.
> ...


Lol
Doesn't help YOU because you're already in the gutter.

The fact you need all those bits in a relatively new boot sized to your mondo, shows it simply doesn't fit; Rehardless of size. Or more appropriately, that the Elite ThirtyTwos don't have as good heel hold as the boots w the Performance liner.

Which... you would have known had you read this thread. But it didn't exist when you git your boots. Such is life. Now you know 

Not everyone is lucky. But i have a shop 2 blocks from my place, and like 3 more big shops and the Intuition HQ ~5 mins from my work. I can try boots and stuff anytime...


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## Amy1988 (Feb 22, 2020)

F1EA - the TM2s I've just bought have the performance liner, I think they fit OK lengthwise but do you think going the half size up like you've suggested would help with the numbness issue I'm having (I think that's due to pressure on top of my foot though)? Or is going the half size up only necessary for people who planned to buy based on mondo sizing (which I didn't do)?


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

Amy1988 said:


> F1EA - the TM2s I've just bought have the performance liner, I think they fit OK lengthwise but do you think going the half size up like you've suggested would help with the numbness issue I'm having (I think that's due to pressure on top of my foot though)? Or is going the half size up only necessary for people who planned to buy based on mondo sizing (which I didn't do)?


Nah, your issue can be solved with a heat fit or by lowering your feet a bit. Try thinner socks?

A lower volume insole + heat fit will get rid of the pressure on top of your foot.

Half size up or down is ONLY needed if you try the two sizes and one is noticeably better = snug all around with no heel lift and no pain.


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## ridethecliche (Feb 27, 2019)

F1EA said:


> Lol
> Doesn't help YOU because you're already in the gutter.
> 
> The fact you need all those bits in a relatively new boot sized to your mondo, shows it simply doesn't fit; Rehardless of size. Or more appropriately, that the Elite ThirtyTwos don't have as good heel hold as the boots w the Performance liner.
> ...


Haha possible. 

I had heel lift on my TM2s as well though. I guess some of us just have weird feet that are going to require some mods to whatever we decide to wear even if it's a decent fit in the right size from the get go. 

On a different note, what do you think of the elite footbeds? Think they're usable or did you replace them from the get go?


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## WigMar (Mar 17, 2019)

Finding a boot that fits my foot well is really only the first step for me. As it packs out and breaks in, I'm ready with the foam to keep that boot feeling fresh 50 to 100 days in. Heel lift is going to show up at some point. I also like sizing down as much as possible, and a modest heel lift can really help with that. 

I like the idea of denser foam in the liners. Having a liner I didn't have to rebuild with foam would be nice.


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

ridethecliche said:


> Haha possible.
> 
> I had heel lift on my TM2s as well though. I guess some of us just have weird feet that are going to require some mods to whatever we decide to wear even if it's a decent fit in the right size from the get go.
> 
> On a different note, what do you think of the elite footbeds? Think they're usable or did you replace them from the get go?


I didn't buy the Elite boots, but if I did... I would try the footbeds. They were not bad at all, but it's difficult to know until actually riding. Typically, you notice the awesomeness of custom footbeds after a day of riding. The liner I would take off right away because it simply doesn't work for me; but I have an older US10.5 Performance liner (they used to call it Level 3 liner) I can put in, or my custom Intuition, whichever fits best; so I think the boots are still fine. I would simply swap the liner.




WigMar" said:


> Finding a boot that fits my foot well is really only the first step for me. As it packs out and breaks in, I'm ready with the foam to keep that boot feeling fresh 50 to 100 days in. Heel lift is going to show up at some point. I also like sizing down as much as possible, and a modest heel lift can really help with that.
> 
> I like the idea of denser foam in the liners. Having a liner I didn't have to rebuild with foam would be nice.


Well, that's how the performance ThirtyTwo feels for me (and for a lot of people who really like the fit of ThirtyTwo). I have it in my Vans for 1.5 seasons already plus 0.5 in their original boots; it is definitely packed in, and I heat molded it when I got those boots too. The only modification it has is very thin footbeds, which I would use anyway (I use the thin in these 10.5 shells, would use the green in US11 shells). I have tried it with and without the thin heel hold thingies and it's fine either way. I just prefer the extra security. The thick ones I don't use in these boots cause they cut off my circulation.

Also my Intuition only has two moldable foam C's on the heels which we put in the initial heat fitting, and have used this liner also for like 1.5 seasons. Only reason I don't have it on my Vans is because it makes the boots too stiff. Super comfortable, but stiff as hell. This liner would be great in the Mullair boots which are starting to interest me after all this talk... but at their price, and knowing I'd have to swap liners... I probably would prefer to buy B Ions.

But anyways... that's why I really like that ThirtyTwo Performance (level 3 liner). Stiffer than most liners, plush, great heel hold. Comfort on day 1, but also packs out without a ton of slop.


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## drblast (Feb 28, 2017)

Amy1988 said:


> Hi sorry to butt in - I'm in the middle of deciding on my second pair of boots (first pair were basically comfy from day 1 and in hindsight way too big - I now get numb toes after a few hours through either gripping with my toes or doing everything up too tight to compensate for the loose boots).
> 
> I've bought a pair of ThirtyTwo TM2s (ladies) in size 4 - normal shoe size is 4.5/5 - and I think this is spot on as boots are uncomfortable when standing up straight but in board stance I can still feel the liner when I wiggle my toes. I was also sized as a 4 using a ThirtyTwo sizing board. I'll admit I haven't tried on lots of boots as a) I live in the Highlands and so even travelling 3-4h I'm lucky if stores stock more than 2 brands of ladies boots and b) I have real issues with heel lift and I feel like ThirtyTwo boots have been the only brand to fix that.
> 
> ...


Heat molding mostly fixes this for me, but also _tightening_ the laces particularly in the upper area of the boot helps.

Why? Because the TM2 tongue is very stiff and fairly flat. Tightening the laces compresses the side of the tongue in causing it to form more of a U shape giving you a bit of extra space on top of the foot.

During my first few days with TM2's I leave the liner and lower laces fairly loose and I cross the laces before the top three grommets as if I were about to tie a bow so that pressure on the top part of the boot doesn't cause the laces to tighten around my lower foot. Then I tighten the upper section hard. When I do this I can feel the pressure come off the top of my foot and my toes draw back from the front slightly. I still get numbness but it's mild and only after an hour or so. Then I have a drink at the bar, loosen everything, get circulation back, and then repeat the process. The second half of the day is usually better because the liner has warmed up and is more pliable around my foot.


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## drblast (Feb 28, 2017)

Also if you have TM2's look at where that last fabric loop is attached; it's attached to the sides of tongue then loops through the boot. That's not immediately obvious but if you're cranking down on that you're pulling the tongue down on top of your foot directly. Figuring out where to lace tight and where to lace loose depends on your foot shape and how much the boots have molded to your feet, but having the flexibility to keep some parts tight and some parts loose is the best thing about laces.

(Whoops, this is only on the older TM2's)


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

Everyone sized up half a size based on these reviews:


thirty two mullair review - Google Search


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## kierandugdale (Oct 21, 2019)

F1EA said:


> No problem.
> 
> The downside is... that the Elite does not offer the same ankle/heel hold. In fact, I would rather wear a US11 TM2 (performance liner) than a 10.5 TM3 (elite).
> 
> ...


The uk 7.5 thirtytwo mullair have arrived. On my left foot my big too is pushing Into the liner. It is not getting crushing, I can just feel it pushing into the liner. I can’t wriggle the toe compared to my right foot. I am wondering if I heat mould them will it push our a little on my left foot so it’s not too much pressure? Also the heal hold is great with no movement. If there is movement in future there is the heel hold kit. In a few days I’m going to a indoor slope in the UK. I could get these heat moulded at the shop and test out on the slope for an hour or two.


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## kierandugdale (Oct 21, 2019)

F1EA said:


> No problem.
> 
> The downside is... that the Elite does not offer the same ankle/heel hold. In fact, I would rather wear a US11 TM2 (performance liner) than a 10.5 TM3 (elite).
> 
> ...


The uk 7.5 thirtytwo mullair have arrived. On my left foot my big too is pushing Into the liner. It is not getting crushing, I can just feel it pushing into the liner. I can’t wriggle the toe compared to my right foot. I am wondering if I heat mould them will it push our a little on my left foot so it’s not too much pressure? Also the heal hold is great with no movement. If there is movement in future there is the heel hold kit. In a few days I’m going to a indoor slope in the UK. I could get these heat moulded at the shop and test out on the slope for an hour or two.


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

kierandugdale said:


> The uk 7.5 thirtytwo mullair have arrived. On my left foot my big too is pushing Into the liner. It is not getting crushing, I can just feel it pushing into the liner. I can’t wriggle the toe compared to my right foot. I am wondering if I heat mould them will it push our a little on my left foot so it’s not too much pressure? Also the heal hold is great with no movement. If there is movement in future there is the heel hold kit. In a few days I’m going to a indoor slope in the UK. I could get these heat moulded at the shop and test out on the slope for an hour or two.


Yep that's your fit.

That's how the Elite feels for me at US10.5. Except with a little less heel hold and generally a bit roomier on the sides (all compared to my other liners) . You should be able to relieve that bit of pressure on the toe by heat fitting, as long as it's not painful.

Always good to try half a size smaller than the one you think feels good. That way you KNOW what fits best.

Also, you have two different size feet. That's a problem... so go with the size that fits without pain on the bigger foot... then deal with the smaller foot later on by adding volume/heel hold/foam/thicker footbed, etc.


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## kierandugdale (Oct 21, 2019)

F1EA said:


> Yep that's your fit.
> 
> That's how the Elite feels for me at US10.5. Except with a little less heel hold and generally a bit roomier on the sides (all compared to my other liners) . You should be able to relieve that bit of pressure on the toe by heat fitting, as long as it's not painful.
> 
> Always good to try half a size smaller than the one you think feels good. That way you KNOW what fits best.


I think the uk 8 fit better out of the box, but I’m thinking about packing out. will the elite liner pack out much over time. I just don’t want to get a boot too small again and be in pain while riding and having to get rid of them again in the end. I really appreciate your help and advice. As I only ride about 12 days of the year i don’t have much experience.


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

kierandugdale said:


> I think the uk 8 fit better out of the box, but I’m thinking about packing out. will the elite liner pack out much over time. I just don’t want to get a boot too small again and be in pain while riding and having to get rid of them again in the end. I really appreciate your help and advice. As I only ride about 12 days of the year i don’t have much experience.


Hmmm that's though to know. The Elite liner is relatively new so I am not sure. I don't even know how much can you heat fit these liners, as it has quite a bit of non-moldable 'high rebound' EVA.

Here's one thing you can do:
Take the liner out (from the UK7.5) and get your feet in it and tie the little power strap. If you feel the same sort of pressure/pain on your toes... that's good news. Means it's pressure coming from the liner and can be heat molded out. 

If the pressure disappears, then that means the pressure/pain is coming from the shell and in that case go with the bigger one because otherwise the pain will kill you on the mountains.

Or... do you have older liners lying around? try them with one of your older liners and see if they're comfortable. If they are, then again, it's the liner and all you need is a proper heat-fit. 

Good luck! and get back with feedback. I'm an infinitely curious soul. It's a disease hahahah


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## ridethecliche (Feb 27, 2019)

Sigh, I've modified things a bit but I think I really just need to suck it up and heat mold my liners...


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

ridethecliche said:


> Sigh, I've modified things a bit but I think I really just need to suck it up and heat mold my liners...


Do it. On day 1. It ONLY helps, absolutely no drawbacks to it.

People talk about "trading longevity", "expediting the breakdown process".... but no. Heat molding is NOT the same as breakdown. The liner and shell will degrade with USE (as in riding, hiking, etc). But the moldable foam will not be damaged by heat molding. 
Heat mold with the footbeds you will use for sure, and do not add any other fitting foam or anything to the first fitting. THEN if you need, you can start adding stuff.

Like i said, I'm not sure exactly how much fitting you can get out of the elite liner because it does have a lot more eva vs moldable foam compared to the other liners; so pretty sure they've sacrificed some fitting potential for longevity. We shall see...

Personally, I am not a fan of the elite liner. Too wide inside, not enough ankle support and really tight against the toes. Deadly combination. Your mileage may vary and all that.


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## WigMar (Mar 17, 2019)

ridethecliche said:


> Sigh, I've modified things a bit but I think I really just need to suck it up and heat mold my liners...


I like to heat mold new boots. The hot foam moves around to fill in voids as well as getting out of compressed areas. Riding to mold a boot just compresses areas. Does heat molding reduce the lifespan of a liner? I don't know. It certainly fits my foot better afterwards.

I've never worn boots and then molded them. I'd imagine that's not gonna smell great. Those hot rice socks smell kinda good- maybe go that route.


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## ridethecliche (Feb 27, 2019)

So uh... If I go to a shop tomorrow to heat mold my boots... Should I take out all the foam I added? I added most of it in regions where I'd previously had issues with my TM2's as well.
Some of it I think i can just take off and store during the heat molding process and then reapply when I get home because I'm 100% sure that some of those problem areas will still be there (since I have low volume lower legs).

I really don't want to have to redo all the C bars and heel stuff I made for the boots, but that wouldn't be a huge deal and I can play arts and crafts tomorrow afternoon. I don't think i have enough foam left to remake the stuff that takes up volume around my lower leg. All that stuff is also between the liner and the shell so heatmolding would actually be useful with that stuff in there right?

And I should use the aftermarket insole I'm running and not the stock one, right?

Honestly, I'm actually a bit curious about heat molding while keeping the modifications I've made since it should target those areas even more. If it ends up being a terrible idea, I can always just say screw it, rip it all off, and go get them molded again. What say you?

Thanks for the input on this...


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

ridethecliche said:


> So uh... If I go to a shop tomorrow to heat mold my boots... Should I take out all the foam I added? I added most of it in regions where I'd previously had issues with my TM2's as well.
> Some of it I think i can just take off and store during the heat molding process and then reapply when I get home because I'm 100% sure that some of those problem areas will still be there (since I have low volume lower legs).
> 
> I really don't want to have to redo all the C bars and heel stuff I made for the boots, but that wouldn't be a huge deal and I can play arts and crafts tomorrow afternoon. I don't think i have enough foam left to remake the stuff that takes up volume around my lower leg. All that stuff is also between the liner and the shell so heatmolding would actually be useful with that stuff in there right?
> ...


How do you have all the foam pads attached? Self-adhesive or duct tape?

I guess you can leave the foam in there during the heat molding, but the best result is to heat mold, then add the foam where you need it. That way the moldable foam will take up the highest volume it can, then you supplement with the add ons. If you add the foam in before the heating, the foam will be compressed and will not expand to its maximum. This may be fine... or not. 

And yeah use the insoles you'll be using with the boots. Don't heat the liners with them in... just put them in after heating when you put on the boots.

You can heat mold many many times. 2, 3, 5, even 10 times will make no difference to the foam. Provided you heat it at the proper temp. So you can go for the best fit even if it needs a few heatings.

Also, since you want more volume, don't do your boots too tight when heat molding. Not super loose, but looser than when you normally ride, and wearing the thinnest socks you can find. Once molded, you can take them home and add the foam, then try them with the socks you ride in and tie normally to see how things are looking.

Does the shop have a fitter? Or is it mostly just a dude? If it's a dude he'll give you ideas or comments which you can consider if they make sense. If it's a proper fitter, then they should know all you need.


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## ridethecliche (Feb 27, 2019)

Foam is attached with self adhesive and duct tape in some spots.... It's fine. I have more foam at home. I might just rip it all off for now and spend the 20 bucks to get them heat molded and then start the process all over again so it's done the way it's supposed to be done. It's just gonna be some dude. Do you suggest making a toe cap for the process? I.e. cut toes off an old sock and wear it under board socks to get a little more room for toes going?

I'm going to be riding 2 days this weekend, so I'll have some time on saturday evening to sit down with the foam and mess with things again. If I can get things molded early enough today (weds), I might even be able to go to the indoor place and try things out there this evening and make some mods at night even before I head up north for the weekend.


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

ridethecliche said:


> Foam is attached with self adhesive and duct tape in some spots.... It's fine. I have more foam at home. I might just rip it all off for now and spend the 20 bucks to get them heat molded and then start the process all over again so it's done the way it's supposed to be done. It's just gonna be some dude. Do you suggest making a toe cap for the process? I.e. cut toes off an old sock and wear it under board socks to get a little more room for toes going?
> 
> I'm going to be riding 2 days this weekend, so I'll have some time on saturday evening to sit down with the foam and mess with things again. If I can get things molded early enough today (weds), I might even be able to go to the indoor place and try things out there this evening and make some mods at night even before I head up north for the weekend.


Yeah that sounds good. Taking out the foam, then putting back in where you need it should not be a big problem. Can use a sharpie to mark out where your current foam is and use that as reference

No caps. Not really needed...

So an initial heat fit, then you can take it to your place and rework the foam bits to address any issue. Use a hair dryer if you just need to heat a specific area at home or something like that.

Wear it a bit at home to make sure things feel tight and comfy. Then test it out in a relatively small and simple place is the best. Wearing it is ok to get a general idea; but even simple riding helps a lot more because it puts everything to the stress and motions that you normally do. The first couple days riding with newly fit boots I take an older pair of boots as well, just in case.

Then you can heat mold again if needed. That's the good thing, that you can reheat many times without worries.


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## kierandugdale (Oct 21, 2019)

F1EA said:


> Hmmm that's though to know. The Elite liner is relatively new so I am not sure. I don't even know how much can you heat fit these liners, as it has quite a bit of non-moldable 'high rebound' EVA.
> 
> Here's one thing you can do:
> Take the liner out (from the UK7.5) and get your feet in it and tie the little power strap. If you feel the same sort of pressure/pain on your toes... that's good news. Means it's pressure coming from the liner and can be heat molded out.
> ...


I look the uk 7.5 elite liner out of the shell and I can still feel the same amount of pressure on big toe pushing into the liner. Tomorrow I’m going to go get them heat moulded and go on the indoor slope in the uk to see what they are like. I think getting the smaller size and heat moulding them will be the best result. The uk 8 fit better out of the box as there is less pressure on the left toes and they are just touching the liner in this boot.
By putting the thirtytwo toe caps on while heat moulding will his make much length room? On the elite liner it doesn’t feel like there is much heat mouldable foam at the toe box. Just wondering if I will get any length room to get rid of the pressure point.


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

kierandugdale said:


> I look the uk 7.5 elite liner out of the shell and I can still feel the same amount of pressure on big toe pushing into the liner. Tomorrow I’m going to go get them heat moulded and go on the indoor slope in the uk to see what they are like. I think getting the smaller size and heat moulding them will be the best result. The uk 8 fit better out of the box as there is less pressure on the left toes and they are just touching the liner in this boot.
> By putting the thirtytwo toe caps on while heat moulding will his make much length room? On the elite liner it doesn’t feel like there is much heat mouldable foam at the toe box. Just wondering if I will get any length room to get rid of the pressure point.


You got it. True, they do fit very tight and i'm not sure how much you can actually achieve by heat molding the Elite liner. It does have quite a bit less moldable foam... i like my cushy and responsive Performance liner. Also has a much more forgiving toe cap. 

I found this thread from a few years ago... seems to support everything we've been talking about. EVERYONE mentions they fit very tight on the toes. I agree.









Thirtytwo 32 tm3's?? (Team 3) Info?


Hey guys. At the point of needing new boots and almost pulled the trigger on the tm2 xlts - however they felt extremely stiff for park riding when tried on in store. I ride everywhere. A lot of jumps. Only a few rails, hardly at all. Current boots are northwave decades. Just spotted the...




www.snowboardingforum.com





Your problem is the other shorter foot. You can't go too comfortable on the other one because then you'll have all sorts of issues with the smaller foot...


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## ridethecliche (Feb 27, 2019)

Went through the process and things felt a bit better afterwards to be honest. I'm not totally sure I could get my knees bent enough to get my right heel all the way back in the pocket, but we'll see how it goes. If it's better, I might try giving it one more go over the weekend at Loon. I used thin ski socks for molding, but for riding I might put in the thinner heel hold inserts and use slightly thicker socks I usually ride in. Either which way, regardless of how I modify going forward, I think this is a good starting off point.

I agree that there's less foam to compress over here, but the liner itself does have a little give to it.

Re: that other thread.
I've looked through it before. My TM2's were definitely stiffer than these. I don't mind it though. Truth be told, for my next pair of boots I'm going to try a ton more stuff and hopefully find a triple boa option that works better. I've ridden a set of 32 boots that had a boa for the heel hold and that with a laces option would be friggin perfect.


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

Amy1988 said:


> Hi sorry to butt in - I'm in the middle of deciding on my second pair of boots (first pair were basically comfy from day 1 and in hindsight way too big - I now get numb toes after a few hours through either gripping with my toes or doing everything up too tight to compensate for the loose boots).
> 
> I've bought a pair of ThirtyTwo TM2s (ladies) in size 4 - normal shoe size is 4.5/5 - and I think this is spot on as boots are uncomfortable when standing up straight but in board stance I can still feel the liner when I wiggle my toes. I was also sized as a 4 using a ThirtyTwo sizing board. I'll admit I haven't tried on lots of boots as a) I live in the Highlands and so even travelling 3-4h I'm lucky if stores stock more than 2 brands of ladies boots and b) I have real issues with heel lift and I feel like ThirtyTwo boots have been the only brand to fix that.
> 
> However, the TM2s cause complete numbness in both feet just wearing them in the house for 15mins - and when I take them off there are large red pressure marks on the tops of both feet. I find the heel holds pretty uncomfortable too (like someone is pinching either side of my achilles heel with their thumb and fore finger). The numbness is by far my biggest problem though - will the padding in the tongue of the liner pack out (either naturally or by heat moulding) or should I be considering another boot? Most issues seem to relate to length of boot/fitting an alternative footed but my issue seems to be coming from above..


You have high arches I assume. I got the same issues of out of the box 32 XLT and MTB. Liner at heels soon was not pinching anymore. Get them heat molded to get the fit better.
For numbness, i.e. cutting off circulation, undo the lower eyelet of the liner, don't tighten the lace of the lower shell part (I make a knot into laces at the lower boot which stops that part from getting tightened), and get thin insoles.
Also, I observe that the stiff tongue presses on my arch when leaning fwd with shins, which causes numbness. To avoid that, I reduce long time pressure of shins but rather use ankles/forefeet on toeside turns.
With the compination of all these measures ^, my boots went from uncomfortably tight and numbness to a comfy responsive boot w/o numbness, but it's a compromise.

However... 32 aren't a good match for feet with high arches... I wouldn't recommend those boots to anyone with high arches. I only still get 32 as they are the only decent women's boots for touring I found, holding crampons well.
If you don't NEED those 32 and could use a different boot/brand for your riding aims, I'd swap them. Ride Cadence was my favorite for resort riding. Did fit very well for my high arch and narrow heels.


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## kierandugdale (Oct 21, 2019)

F1EA said:


> You got it. True, they do fit very tight and i'm not sure how much you can actually achieve by heat molding the Elite liner. It does have quite a bit less moldable foam... i like my cushy and responsive Performance liner. Also has a much more forgiving toe cap.
> 
> I found this thread from a few years ago... seems to support everything we've been talking about. EVERYONE mentions they fit very tight on the toes. I agree.
> 
> ...


I got the UK 7.5 32 mullair boots heat moulded the other day. While I got them heat moulded I put some toe caps on to get some area room, put a thick one on left foot to get some more length. After I rode on the snow dome and I was not getting any paid but still could feel the touch at end of liner. More when I was on my heel edge putting the brakes on. I could feel like the footbed was curling up at the end of the foot. I have took the footbed out and can see that there is makes for 8.5, 9, 9.5. Does the footbed have to be cut to size? I have attached a photo, I put my foot into the boot without a foot bed and there was better room.


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## WigMar (Mar 17, 2019)

Yes, it probably does need to be trimmed. I like to trace the stock insoles onto the aftermarket ones so I get the shape of the liner right.


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

That's strange that the boots came with a footbed you need to trim. They usually make them multi-size but they come trimmed for your specific size. In any case, yeah trimming is best.

I too got the Mullair boots last week (US10.5). Put 3 days on them already. 

BUT i've been riding them in my older and almost new US10.5 Level 3 liner (Performance). The fit is PERFECT with that liner and it adds a bit of stiffness... 

The stock elite liner it is really tight lengthwise. Borderline undoable but ok if you're willing to work the liner. My mondo on TM2 is undoable, but on the elite it would just take some effort. 

I heat-molded the stock liner without toe caps and it improved; but not yet to a level where I would be able to ride without pain on my toes. In other words, I would not use them because I've got ZERO tolerance for boot pain. So yeah toe caps sound like a good idea, anything to make some room at the toes really.

If only you didn't have a much shorter foot, I would say go straight to half size bigger than mondo and save yourself the struggle.


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## kierandugdale (Oct 21, 2019)

F1EA said:


> That's strange that the boots came with a footbed you need to trim. They usually make them multi-size but they come trimmed for your specific size. In any case, yeah trimming is best.
> 
> I too got the Mullair boots last week (US10.5). Put 3 days on them already.
> 
> ...


I will trim down the footbed to the correct size and see if that makes it much better. I still have the UK8 boots I want to make sure I make the right decision before sending them back. I have also ZERO tolerance for boot pain. I have changed boots 3 times in the last year because I want it to be comfy. I spend a lot of money going on vacation to go snowboarding twice a year and I want to be comfy! Last month in Austria the Adidas response Boots I had gave me too much paid that effected my performance a lot and I could not enjoy it as much. But ye with having two different size feet’s I feet like my right foot is perfect in the 7.5 but my left foot is on the knocker of the 7.5 and 8. I’m a size uk 7 in most normally sneakers or 7.5 in some brands. The photo below shoes the different size feet. I think I will cut the footbed and play around with the foots and wear them for a few hours and if I feel like it will annoy me I might go for the 8 boots.


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## ridethecliche (Feb 27, 2019)

Ended up heat molding them again at the hill over the weekend with thin socks and better positioning and I think it worked out much better when when with my regular slightly thicker socks.
Probably the best I've ever felt in boots without putting stuff in there. Going to add a bunch of foam back in there before my trip tomorrow to dial things in a bit because my ankle was still moving a bit but I'm pretty stoked to be honest!

Also re liner talk. If the toes are the issue I'd throw some heel lifts in if everything else is mostly good. I don't mind these liners too much.

How are the mullairs? Do they do a better job of locking the heel? It looks like they have two loops that pull things together for heel hold vs one on the other boots.



WigMar said:


> Yes, it probably does need to be trimmed. I like to trace the stock insoles onto the aftermarket ones so I get the shape of the liner right.


That's the stock 32 insole for that boot. Weird. Mine don't seem to do that, but I haven't ridden the boots with them in there.


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## Myoko (Dec 11, 2018)

Kijima said:


> I have a left big toe nail that turns black every season. The others do not.
> A good solution could be upsizing or in my case regular nail clipping and filing.


I'm the same!!! Heads up, the older I get the faster my bloody finger and toe nails grow also btw.


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

ridethecliche said:


> Ended up heat molding them again at the hill over the weekend with thin socks and better positioning and I think it worked out much better when when with my regular slightly thicker socks.
> Probably the best I've ever felt in boots without putting stuff in there. Going to add a bunch of foam back in there before my trip tomorrow to dial things in a bit because my ankle was still moving a bit but I'm pretty stoked to be honest!
> 
> Also re liner talk. If the toes are the issue I'd throw some heel lifts in if everything else is mostly good. I don't mind these liners too much.
> ...


Yes, that's the feeling of a good heat-fit.

The liners are fine. They are just a little too 'low-volume" for me. I have really skinny feet so anything that is not "plush" will leave me feeling naked and with too much room. Also... most other liners have a neoprene toe cap which gives a little way, these don't. The foam goes all around so your toes are always against liner. This is great for performance; but on top of heating, you also need to break in the non-moldable foam to release some of the pressure at the toes. Ok for a performance minded person, but must be hell for the ~10 day/season rider.

The Mullairs are amazing. I find them very close to TM2, which to me is the best flexing boot ever. They have this elaborate heel lacing system which... it's fine, but nothing you can't get from say the lace TM2 or even the TM3 in terms of pure heel lock. What it does offer is flexibility... there's a loop you can skip if you want to have a bit more flex at the articulation. When you tie that one in, you get double heel lock but also the articulation gets a bit more rigid which adds some response to the boot.

My two favortie things in the boot (besides the flex) is the rubber in the sole (really soft... feels like a true winter tire compound vs hard slippery rubber) - pretty sure this will last a lot less than the one in my Vans Verse but... really grippy and light. The Vans sole will last forever. Then there is something going on in the heel which I am not sure what it is... it is just comfortable; similar feeling I get from the Burton EST springbed.


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## Legendaryl (Mar 31, 2020)

F1EA said:


> Important UPDATE:
> For the ThirtyTwo with the Elite Liner, go your mondo size. It's a little tight on the toes, but not brutal like on the performance liner. Need to be heat-molded before riding but ok.Tried both Mullair and TM3 at the shop. Half size up is ok, only if the liner doesn't pack much, but I'm not sure because it's a new liner...
> 
> Performance liner... yeah I have to go half size bigger than mondo. No question on that one.


Hi @F1EA,

I have a 32 Binary BOA US10 with Performance Liner.
My Feet is Mondo 27 (US9) and sizing half size up is US9.5. Is there anything I can put into the shoes to push my feet forward so i don't have to waste money to buy a new boots? I screwed up buying my boots and previous boot fitter said it would be fine which apparently not because I kept getting Foot Burn around my arch - possible a Plantar Fasciitis 

Thanks!


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

Legendaryl said:


> Hi @F1EA,
> 
> I have a 32 Binary BOA US10 with Performance Liner.
> My Feet is Mondo 27 (US9) and sizing half size up is US9.5. Is there anything I can put into the shoes to push my feet forward so i don't have to waste money to buy a new boots? I screwed up buying my boots and previous boot fitter said it would be fine which apparently not because I kept getting Foot Burn around my arch - possible a Plantar Fasciitis
> ...


Hmmm a full size too big is almost always irresolvable. The reason your arch and ball hurt can be from you trying to muscle it so your feet don't move inside the boot.

An option can be trying a thicker footbed and adding all the little heel hold kit donuts to keep your feet from moving... if that doesn't improve things, then sell them and try out a couple different boots and different sizes.


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## Legendaryl (Mar 31, 2020)

F1EA said:


> Hmmm a full size too big is almost always irresolvable. The reason your arch and ball hurt can be from you trying to muscle it so your feet don't move inside the boot.
> 
> An option can be trying a thicker footbed and adding all the little heel hold kit donuts to keep your feet from moving... if that doesn't improve things, then sell them and try out a couple different boots and different sizes.


Hi, thanks for your quick reply

I see... I’ll have to make a custom foot bed regardless because I don’t just think it’s because of the large size but might be because of the mild-flat foot that I was told that I have. That, coupled with large size shoes that make me unconsciously cringing and muscling my toes and foot into a ball to prevent movements. I’ll try that before I sell it.

Do you have any experience with Adidas boots? If so, for my exact Mondopoint (one foot is just 1mm away from 27MP) what size boots should I be wearing?


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

Legendaryl said:


> Hi, thanks for your quick reply
> 
> I see... I’ll have to make a custom foot bed regardless because I don’t just think it’s because of the large size but might be because of the mild-flat foot that I was told that I have. That, coupled with large size shoes that make me unconsciously cringing and muscling my toes and foot into a ball to prevent movements. I’ll try that before I sell it.
> 
> Do you have any experience with Adidas boots? If so, for my exact Mondopoint (one foot is just 1mm away from 27MP) what size boots should I be wearing?


Size your boots for the biggest foot if you go with the mondo size; unless you're willing to "force" the extra space in the liner by heat molding and so on. But this all depends what you're comfortable with and how the boots fit.

Adidas, from what I have heard people say run a little big... so likely true to Mondo size (where ThirtyTwo run a little small, so likely a bit too tight for your Mondo). I've never owned Adidas boots, but tried US10.5 Blauvelt a couple of years ago. They fit me well all around but the heel was too loose. So that was good for my mondo size. Similar with DC boots... fit well length-wise but a bit too wide in the heels.

ThirtyTwo even though the Mullair 'can work' at my true mondo, I would not wear them/buy them at that size if I didn't have my other liners. They are way too tight with the stock 10.5 liners.


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## fzst (Jan 3, 2019)

Legendaryl said:


> Hi, thanks for your quick reply
> 
> I see... I’ll have to make a custom foot bed regardless because I don’t just think it’s because of the large size but might be because of the mild-flat foot that I was told that I have. That, coupled with large size shoes that make me unconsciously cringing and muscling my toes and foot into a ball to prevent movements. I’ll try that before I sell it.
> 
> Do you have any experience with Adidas boots? If so, for my exact Mondopoint (one foot is just 1mm away from 27MP) what size boots should I be wearing?


My feet are MP 27.5, meaning they are something in between 27-27,5cm long. I have an Adidas Acerra in a size 9 and they fit quite good, they do run large. If your feet are MP 27 meaning they are something in between 26,5 - 27cm long than you should try a size US 8.5.


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## IanL (Mar 30, 2021)

ridethecliche said:


> I wear a size 8.5 in sneakers and skate shoes. I bought an 8.5 in the TM2. It was too big.
> 
> Just bought an 8 in TM3 and it's better. I think I could have sized down to a 7.5 if I used a small heel lift to get my heel in the pocket better.


Just got the tm3 


ridethecliche said:


> I wear a size 8.5 in sneakers and skate shoes. I bought an 8.5 in the TM2. It was too big.
> 
> Just bought an 8 in TM3 and it's better. I think I could have sized down to a 7.5 if I used a small heel lift to get my heel in the pocket better.


Got the Tm3 in a 9 and did heat molding and after 2 days Bott expanded more and decided I would sell them and get and 8.5.

Left foot measures 27.5 on the mondo and right 27 which is like a 9.5 and a 9. Old Burton boots were a 9.5 and pretty close in volume compared to the tm3.

So for me I'd say you want some pain and toes really pressing cause when they break in and do molding they will pack out.

Initially the 9 was very tight toes couldn't move and I got pain after about 10 min put the toe cap on and did molding then it got more spacious and a little more after 2 days.


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## ridethecliche (Feb 27, 2019)

IanL said:


> Just got the tm3
> 
> 
> Got the Tm3 in a 9 and did heat molding and after 2 days Bott expanded more and decided I would sell them and get and 8.5.
> ...


Are you looking for the 8.5? I'll sell my set if you are!


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## IanL (Mar 30, 2021)

ridethecliche said:


> Are you looking for the 8.5? I'll sell my set if you are!


I've been reading through your comments on the TM3. Thanks for sharing. Sounds like they've been used a bit. How many days? What didn't you like about them? Saw you also changed liners. You liked the TM2 liner better right? Was wondering what the difference felt like. Did you get the liners in the same size? And try them both on without the shell?

Mine was tight length wise with toes touching but in the shell and when i get riding it loosens up and i get play.

Have also considered the TM2.


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## ridethecliche (Feb 27, 2019)

IanL said:


> I've been reading through your comments on the TM3. Thanks for sharing. Sounds like they've been used a bit. How many days? What didn't you like about them? Saw you also changed liners. You liked the TM2 liner better right? Was wondering what the difference felt like. Did you get the liners in the same size? And try them both on without the shell?
> 
> Mine was tight length wise with toes touching but in the shell and when i get riding it loosens up and i get play.
> 
> Have also considered the TM2.


Feel free to PM me.

I think I maybe have 10-15 days on the TM3s and yeah the definitely look used but I mean i wouldn't be asking close to new prices for them. I've been wearing lassos for a bit now. Still looking for the right boot though. The TM3 is definitely a 100 day boot though. My lassos already look worn in comparison. 

The TM2 liner isn't better per se. It's just pusher so I thought it was worth trying. Didn't work for me. Maybe 2-3 days.

Send me a message and I'll ship them both to you cheap. Maybe like 200+ shipping for both TM2 AND TM3.


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## IanL (Mar 30, 2021)

ridethecliche said:


> Feel free to PM me.
> 
> I think I maybe have 10-15 days on the TM3s and yeah the definitely look used but I mean i wouldn't be asking close to new prices for them. I've been wearing lassos for a bit now. Still looking for the right boot though. The TM3 is definitely a 100 day boot though. My lassos already look worn in comparison.
> 
> ...


If you put them on ebay or wherever you can send me the link. Probably will buy something new but i'd take a look.


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## ridethecliche (Feb 27, 2019)

IanL said:


> If you put them on ebay or wherever you can send me the link. Probably will buy something new but i'd take a look.


I'm not going to sell them on ebay. The fees are too high for something like this. If you're interested, drop me a line and we can do payment through a secure source (paypal etc). I've bought and sold a few things on here so I'm not worried about it. If you're not comfortable with that then no worries. I'll put them up on facebook marketplace and groups closer to next season.

Good luck finding the 'perfect' boot. I'm still looking lol.

Edit: I messaged you so we don't clutter up this thread.


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