# Burton EST problem



## Tech420

I tighten the screws once a week (I ride 4-5 times a week). Usually the screw doesn't move at all, but it makes me feel better.


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## Butterscotch

I use blue thread lock on my hardware so it doesn't come loose. When I re-tighted them after I got down the slope they just did the same thing two runs later. I'm starting to worry its going to be a very common problem. I got those screws as tight as I could and I had plenty of grip to tighten with the rubber palms on my gloves. It was only the back binding so far (right foot).


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## WolfSnow

I ride a Burton Hero too. 
The first year I rode it (last year, the 2011 model), the bindings came loose alot. I permanently carried a screw driver around in my pocket. It was extremely frustrating. 
I didn't want it to happen this year so I posted a question about it here, (http://www.snowboardingforum.com/snowboarding-general-chat/41799-burton-est-chanel-help.html) and I got lots of helpful answers. 

I personally wasn't too keen on modifying my screws with locktite, so this year I've been taking "Nivek's" advice which was to just tighten them again once I was out in the cold weather. 
So far its worked really well, when I get the opportunity after a few runs to tighten them again, I do. And sometimes the screw it a little loose, but not so that the binding is moving like it was last season. I haven't had any problems that effect my riding with it so far this year. 

You also learn what will make it worse and what won't. The more tail/nose presses you do, the quicker it will loosen. Leaving the board dangling off your foot rather then using the board rest on the chair lift will also aid in loosening it. 

Hope I was of some help, 
-WolfSnow


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## Deviant

Must just be me but I really cranked the screws down and have held super well, haven't touched the screws this year at all, and been a while since I touched them last season. Running Triad EST's on an X8.


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## DrrrtyChurro

Butterscotch said:


> makes it difficult to adjust on top of the mountain if I need to.


That's your problem.

I rode Burton est boards for the last 2 years, had no problems with them, own multiple and im stoked on the channel.

#1. The screwdrivers at the hill at the tool-benches suck ass.
#2. With my experiences with the EST, if it loosens on you during the day your screwed, every time you slide it around and shit re-mounting it snow, dirt, whatever else, gets caught in the binding when you re-mount it and it makes it so you cant tighten it down properly. 

Mount your board at your house and leave it, take your "#3 Phillips" and crank down on your hardware as tight as you can. and Voila! your set. when you go up riding, double check and re-tighten it in the parking lot before you start your day. You should be set for the season. 

I have never had issues with the channel. I guarentee you have nothing wrong with your board or binding.

If you stick with one stance and dont play around with it its gonna hold, once you touch it to "tool" with your stance at the top of the hill (nice pun eh?) its gonna make it a bitch to keep tight on the hill


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## orangatang

Im usually to lazy to find the table or bench with a tool so I just carry a burton bullet in a pocket, works well.


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## dreampow

DrrrtyChurro said:


> That's your problem.
> 
> I rode Burton est boards for the last 2 years, had no problems with them, own multiple and im stoked on the channel.
> 
> #1. The screwdrivers at the hill at the tool-benches suck ass.
> #2. With my experiences with the EST, if it loosens on you during the day your screwed, every time you slide it around and shit re-mounting it snow, dirt, whatever else, gets caught in the binding when you re-mount it and it makes it so you cant tighten it down properly.
> 
> Mount your board at your house and leave it, take your "#3 Phillips" and crank down on your hardware as tight as you can. and Voila! your set. when you go up riding, double check and re-tighten it in the parking lot before you start your day. You should be set for the season.
> 
> I have never had issues with the channel. I guarentee you have nothing wrong with your board or binding.
> 
> If you stick with one stance and dont play around with it its gonna hold, once you touch it to "tool" with your stance at the top of the hill (nice pun eh?) its gonna make it a bitch to keep tight on the hill


I don't ride burton boards, one of the reasons I would like to is that the channel (supposedly) makes it easier to adjust your stance on the hill. Dialing in more setback for pow or centering it up for freestyle.

What you are saying seems to negate one of the big benefits of the channel.

One of the reasons I don't ride burton (channel) is they seem to stand a much better chance of getting loose while riding.

I like the idea of better board feel and flex though.


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## ETM

DrrrtyChurro said:


> That's your problem.
> 
> If you stick with one stance and dont play around with it its gonna hold, once you touch it to "tool" with your stance at the top of the hill (nice pun eh?) its gonna make it a bitch to keep tight on the hill


Well thats just shit isn't it. 
The boards need 2x channels running parallel to each other then you could use 4 bolts instead of 2. They could also make them a different profile again just to make them completely unusable with any previous gear. All your m6 and m5 channel gear would be no good so you would be out buying more bindings for no reason. Sounds right up burtons alley.


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## Lamps

Use a good quality #3 screwdriver and you shouldn't have a problem. I'm 4 years on est with no issues, great system.


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## Butterscotch

I have been changing my stance a little bit, I keep a #3 screw driver in my camelbak so I just adjust it when I get to the top of the lift. I was out for 3 hours before it came loose. I cranked down on them as tight as I could the other night and they still came loose only two runs later (it was the last run anyway). I'm a mechanic and am very familiar with any tool so I kind of doubt I didn't get it tight enough. The binding didn't come completely loose, it slipped a few degrees at a time if I hit a mogul or any other sudden impact. It was only the left (inside) screw on my right binding. The screw on the other side held firm which kept the binding from moving front to back so it just twisted on me. 

One of the reasons why I got the hero was for the est channel so I can easily adjust it since park riding is somewhat new to me. I've been riding for 9 years but park never appealed to me, I just thought I'd give it a shot this year. The easy adjustability has been great because since I'm new to park I'm trying to find the stance that I like especially for rails. I think I've got it where I want it now so I wont have to mess with the stance but it is kind of irritating that I'm stuck to one stance and I need to tighten the screws down throughout the day. If I take a break from the park and go hit some diamond slopes I don't want to worry about my binding slipping out of place on me, that just seems like a pain in the ass.

It was only the first time this happened so I'll see how it works out this Monday.


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## dreampow

Not very heroic if it moves every time you have a big impact.

Also probably depends on the riders weight and riding style as to how much stress is on each bolt.


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## Cruiserdude

I wondered about this possibility when I first saw the Channel EST system. I love the idea of it, but this seems like a high cost if its a common issue, especially considering that its proprietary and incompatible with other options, anyway. Has anyone tried contacting Burton directly, telling them how dissatisfied they are, and asking what they can do about it? Seems like a safety issue as well as performance.


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## Butterscotch

dreampow said:


> Not very heroic if it moves every time you have a big impact.
> 
> Also probably depends on the riders weight and riding style as to how much stress is on each bolt.


No kidding. I like the adjustability but I'll probably stick with the more traditional mounting system next time. I have the 155; I only weigh 147lbs and I'm 5'9" so I'd hope it can handle that. I wasn't being very aggressive for the day either. I was helping my fiancee learn how to snowboard so I spent most of my time on the easy slopes. I only made a few runs down intermediate slopes and no time in the park at all. I did practice some buttery tricks and riding switch but that's about it.

When I have a problem like this I usually dwell on it for a while . It just bothers me how they held just fine for the first 5 rides for the season when I was actually practicing in the park but they decided to give out on a relaxed day of boarding. I'm wondering if the hardware is sort of worn out from all of the adjusting I've been doing. The plastic washer that molds into the saw tooth surface in the binding to keeps it from slipping seems sort of shaved down. Burton sends you the M6 hardware for free so its not a big deal cost wise...


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## Butterscotch

Cruiserdude said:


> I wondered about this possibility when I first saw the Channel EST system. I love the idea of it, but this seems like a high cost if its a common issue, especially considering that its proprietary and incompatible with other options, anyway. Has anyone tried contacting Burton directly, telling them how dissatisfied they are, and asking what they can do about it? Seems like a safety issue as well as performance.


Well I did some research and it doesn't seem to be that common of an issue so I guess I'm just doing something wrong. My binding only slipped a little at a time, by the time I got down the slope it moved from 13 degrees toe out to 5 degrees in. It slipped easier and easier with each one so if your on a long slope with no screw driver it could be a safety issue. I probably will call Burton about it if this happens again Monday. I do like Burton's boards and I love their boots but their bindings do seem a little lack luster compared to some of the other ones out there.

The est channel has been out for quite a few years so I guess if it was a common problem they would have done more to fix it by now.


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## Sick-Pow

Call and get new hardware.Sometimes the washers suck real bad....normally on the OLDER channel, and the older hardware.

No one asked the most important question....what year is your board?

Thanks for redeeming yourself in the last post because your orginal post with the 2 sided tape thing sounded strange. 9 years of riding experience, I trust your judgement.


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## paulperroni

I'm also quite interested to know what Burton says...
I love the EST System idea but have been concerned from the beginning when I saw that only 2 screws were holding my size 13 boot.
Since I only ride once a year for about 5 days, I am curious and worried about the durability of the system.
Anybody got feedback from Burton?


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## Butterscotch

Sick-Pow said:


> Call and get new hardware.Sometimes the washers suck real bad....normally on the OLDER channel, and the older hardware.
> 
> No one asked the most important question....what year is your board?
> 
> Thanks for redeeming yourself in the last post because your orginal post with the 2 sided tape thing sounded strange. 9 years of riding experience, I trust your judgement.


Haha well I was thinking drastic measures at that point using the tape. It just frustrated the crap out of me that the binding kept moving so I was thinking of anything at all that would keep them from moving. Its a 2011 with 2011 bindings. Everything was brand new when I bought it.


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## Butterscotch

Well my binding didn't hold again. Its started slipping easier this time but I think it was caused entirely by all of the adjusting I was doing trying to get the angle of my back foot comfortable for me. I think the first few slips just finished off the plastic washer that keeps the binding from slipping. The plastic washer sinks into the saw toothed edge on the binding which normally holds it in place perfectly but the washer on the side that kept slipping is shredded from the adjusting and slipping that its been put through. I don't understand why they didn't just make the washer match the saw tooth edge in the binding. That way the washer would fully interlock into the binding and would be impossible to slip unless the nut is actually loose.

The picture shows the one on the left that didn't slip at all compared to the one on the right which is the nut that kept slipping on me. I can't be sure this is why it keeps slipping but it seems to make sense. My bindings held great until I kept adjusting the back binding. The only way to find out is to get new M6 hardware and see what happens.


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## CheoSamad

Butterscotch said:


> This season I got a Burton Hero with the EST channel and mission bindings to go with it. I figured there might be a problem with the binding sliding around while riding because of the way they mount with only 2 screws but after the first 5 rides this season they held firm and didn't budge.... until now. So I just wanted to see if this was a common issue with the est channel and what other people did to fix it. So if you've had this problem with the est binding setup with Burton and found a way to fix it I'd love to hear what you did.
> 
> I like the full adjustablility of the est channel but I can't have them sliding around while I'm trying to ride. I was thinking about using some 2-sided tape to stick them down and keep them from slipping but that makes it difficult to adjust on top of the mountain if I need to.


I owned a Burton Hero EST last year and I had the EXACT same problem (back foot and everything) I would just tighten it whenever it started to slide which would be once every few days. It did not have the problem when I first got it but it got really bad after like 3 or 4 weeks.


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## Sick-Pow

Old hardware. They updated everything this year and last year.

call them and they will send you new stuff.

sorry for the hassle, most people are not having issues, even the pros.


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## aftershock141

Sick-Pow said:


> Old hardware. They updated everything this year and last year.
> 
> call them and they will send you new stuff.
> 
> sorry for the hassle, most people are not having issues, even the pros.


This is the truth. My hardware looks completely different.


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## paulperroni

Soooo glad I subscribed to this thread! I am calling Burton tomorrow and request a hardware update.
Here is the number on their site just in case someone wants it: Tel: (800) 881-3138
I will post their feedback tomorrow... Good night ya'll!


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## zenith1

I bought a board with EST last season, a Custom X 2011. At first I was a bit sceptical, and quite right, after the first couple of rides my bindings shifted a couple of degrees. Then I just cranked down the screws really hard and did the same once the board was cold out on the mountain, and I had no issues afterwards. This year I changed both my stance width and angles, again cranked down quite hard, still holding up. I usually ride a couple of times every week.


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## Aznglfer

burton has some pretty good customer service. i had some problems with my bindings and they just sent me replacement parts to fix it


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## MeanJoe

Totally my first thought when reading this thread was to ask if he bought a 2011 board and mounted 2010 or earlier EST bindings. They changed the hardware and if you're not using the correct hardware with the board then you'll have problems.


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## poutanen

I was on a T6 with the older hardware and had no issues, but it was end of season for me. Started on a T7 the next year (Fall 2010), mounted the bindings myself, rode for 21 days without checking (very stupid I know). I just checked them this year after 12 days and a couple of the screws turned 1/4 turn or so, but neither binding came loose ever during riding.

The channel itself has grooves IIRC, and you need the bolts to fully seat inside the grooves or they'll constantly work themselves free. I vaugly remember very lightly hand tightening my bolts, then doing final positioning of the binding, then cranking them tight. Maybe that helped seat the hardware prior to being tightened?


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## BoardWalk

Butterscotch said:


> " I only weigh 147lbs and I'm 5'9"



You need a cheeseburger...


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## Butterscotch

BoardWalk said:


> You need a cheeseburger...


13% body fat . Motocross and mountain biking keeps me in pretty good shape.

I actually bought this board at a swamp meet sort of thing at a local shop in September. The board was brand new but they didn't have the M6 hardware for it so the next day I called Burton to have them ship me the hardware. The customer service was excellent like it always is from Burton but did they really just change the hardware since early September 2011?


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## paulperroni

So I called Burton this afternoon and was impressed with their superb customer service. 
Spoke to Sean who deserves a shout out for his product knowledge and excellent service. He explained to me that as many of you mentioned on this thread, the hardware changed in 2010-11. He insisted it was not a safety issue but an improvement on the technology.
Unfortunately for me, my bindings are 09.
I say unfortunately because the new hardware will not fit my 09 channels.
That is the bad news for me...
He was still kind enough to send me and my brother (who has my identical setup) new hardware.

Eventhough I did not get the ideal outcome, I was extremely pleased with Burton's consumer support!


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## poutanen

paulperroni said:


> Eventhough I did not get the ideal outcome, I was extremely pleased with Burton's consumer support!


This is going off topic, but I bought a Burton T6 on an end of season deal at the end of the 2009/2010 season. Mounted the bindings, took it out for a day and the pads on the board service at the toes and heels (a sort of high denisty foam in the board surface itself) started to peel away from the topsheet. It was a very minor flaw, and only cosmetic, but I sent the board into Burton anyway to see what they'd say.

A couple weeks later my new T7 arrived in the mail!

Despite all the negativity about the big B, in the one dealing I've had with their customer service, I was impressed.  Now I'm trying to see if it's possible (and what they'd charge) to repair the topsheet on the same T7. It was damaged when I moved out to Alberta...


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## CornedBeef

I have an adjustable screwdriver with a handle that folds in half so you can use it as a rachet. 

After tightening as much as I can with the screwdriver straight up, I fold the handle to get more leverage/torgue and can easily get another 1/4 to half turn....more if I wanted to. Never had a problem with burton's channel.


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## BoardWalk

Butterscotch said:


> 13% body fat


Maybe I should lay off the cheeseburgers...


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## Leo

If loctite isn't doing the job, then I suggest you request replacement parts. Burton will happily send you extra ICS parts.


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## menacekop

Im on my 3rd year with EST and have never had an issue, and I'm constantly changing up my angles depeding on what I'm doing.


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## Butterscotch

Going snowboarding tonight, it will be nice and cold (for this area anyway). I bought a new screwdriver that may help. The dakine torque wrench with the sort of t-shaped handle. I got an extra 1 full turn on my screws compared to my stubby craftsman screwdriver from my garage. I'll let you know if the slip.


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## Butterscotch

I went Sunday and today (Monday) and they didn't slip at all. That extra one turn is all it took to my bindings firmly in place. I didn't touch them at all so no re-tightening on the hill. So it was basically operator error :cheeky4:. You really gotta crank those suckers down though. I'll probably call Burton for another set of the hardware anyway which has apparently changed since I've gotten mine.


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