# Riding pow-front vs. back leg



## Sick-Pow (May 5, 2008)

There are back leg riders, old school skateboarders like me who use more back leg. I can slash with the greats.

In deep pow, i actually need to use less rear leg, personally.

With a tapered and rockered board, I can basically relax and point it, under 3 feet of normal pow. any more than that, yeah, my back leg burns hard. ( get it, "burns hard")


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## ETM (Aug 11, 2009)

1 word. Speed


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## chub11 (Apr 8, 2012)

Ok, thanks for clearing that up. In the past, instructors I've had have made it seem like turning with the front leg was the "only" way to do it.


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## Sick-Pow (May 5, 2008)

dude, Snowolf, you need to self publish some books. you could make some great flow, gravy.....


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## HoboMaster (May 16, 2010)

For me it depends on the consistency and depth of the powder. If it's really deep, I ride in the back seat and sort of ride it like a surfboard, making initiations from putting pressure on my back foot. In less then a foot of powd or windblown, I ride it much more like you would a groomer, initiating turns with my front and generally leaning forward in an aggressive style. If you try to lean forward in deep powder, you start sinking and lose speed unless you find yourself on a very steep incline. Speed is almost everything in deep pow, you want to generally keep your speed as high as possible.


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## killclimbz (Aug 10, 2007)

Sounds like to me that the OP needs to ride deep pow more often. Actually I recommend that for everyone...


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## Lamps (Sep 3, 2011)

HoboMaster said:


> For me it depends on the consistency and depth of the powder. If it's really deep, I ride in the back seat and sort of ride it like a surfboard, making initiations from putting pressure on my back foot. In less then a foot of powd or windblown, I ride it much more like you would a groomer, initiating turns with my front and generally leaning forward in an aggressive style. If you try to lean forward in deep powder, you start sinking and lose speed unless you find yourself on a very steep incline. Speed is almost everything in deep pow, you want to generally keep your speed as high as possible.


Deep powder riding on the tail like a surfboard, best days ever...


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## chub11 (Apr 8, 2012)

killclimbz said:


> Sounds like to me that the OP needs to ride deep pow more often. Actually I recommend that for everyone...


It's not that I don't ride enough deep pow, it's just that I had always ridden with my back foot in it until I was told I should be riding more with my front foot.


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## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

A designed big pow stick will allow you to be more centered and be on the nose more. My old option northshore...cambered shovel nose pintail (old school pow board), I was in the backseat and it was more difficult to get on the nose to try to get up some speed without subbing. Verse my charlie slasher, i ride pretty much centered (it planes much easier) and can get on the nose abit more for turn initiation and to accelerate with out the tendency to sub and having to pay close attention to fore/aft position.


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## snowvols (Apr 16, 2008)

chub11 said:


> It's not that I don't ride enough deep pow, it's just that I had always ridden with my back foot in it until I was told I should be riding more with my front foot.


Point blank, you're wrong. Nobody rides enough deep powder.


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## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

chub11 said:


> So why do pro riders always seem to use their back leg to turn in pow? Am I doing something wrong? Hopefully someone can clear this up for me.


Pro are often riding pretty steep stuff, so its not so much about maintaining speed to turn, but maintaining control, having a steezy flow and getting the footy...on steeps the last thing you want to do is stand on your nose with the resulting sub and tomahawk.


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## Sick-Pow (May 5, 2008)

snowvols said:


> Point blank, you're wrong. Nobody rides enough deep powder.


Unless you are in the PNW.


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## snowvols (Apr 16, 2008)

Sick-Pow said:


> Unless you are in the PNW.


Then again you still don't ride enough deep pow. You can never ride too much.


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## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

i have not ridden enough pow and we have a 300" base


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## killclimbz (Aug 10, 2007)

wrathfuldeity said:


> i have not ridden enough pow and we have a 300" base


Exactly my point...


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## chub11 (Apr 8, 2012)

snowvols said:


> Point blank, you're wrong. Nobody rides enough deep powder.


You're completely right, my bad. I was just trying to say that I do get to ride some decent powder every now and then.


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## IdahoFreshies (Jul 9, 2011)

snowvols said:


> Point blank, you're wrong. Nobody rides enough deep powder.


:fistbump: very true sir. EVERYONE needs more powder.

personally, i love surfing really floaty through the pow, and sitting back seat and pulling wheelies through the glades and making big turns. i generally use more back and rudder through the pow, but when i start actually going faster and/or needing to be more technical ill center up a bit more. but i think that using the front to turn will make it really easy to bury the nose and eat it.


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## Liv4Sno (Apr 1, 2010)

Sick-Pow said:


> dude, Snowolf, you need to self publish some books. you could make some great flow, gravy.....


I totally agree.


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## Liv4Sno (Apr 1, 2010)

Snowolf said:


> While the logic of this seems sound, in the PNW I have found that there is such a thing as "too much powder" or perhaps a better way to put it is "more than ideal". Our powder is much heavier and wetter than your Wasatch powder and is a lot more difficult to ride in and you become more limited as to terrain. I have literally been too stuck to move on a 45 degree pitch up here when it is super sticky and skinning in it when it gets like this just flat sucks. Up here, a foot to 15 inches is actually ideal; anything over that in one dose gets to be a pain in the ass. Newbies cant handle it all up here when it gets like this. I have been in your type of dry continental snow chest deep and can still maintain speed on relatively gentle slopes. If someone can ride off piste in the PNW, they can ride anywhere.


I always thought if someone could ride the ice on the EC they could ride anywhere? lol


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## IdahoFreshies (Jul 9, 2011)

Snowolf said:


> Up here, a foot to 15 inches is actually ideal; anything over that in one dose gets to be a pain in the ass. Newbies cant handle it all up here when it gets like this. I have been in your type of dry continental snow chest deep and can still maintain speed on relatively gentle slopes. If someone can ride off piste in the PNW, they can ride anywhere.


im going to say that anything over a foot to 15" anywhere newbies cant handle. one fall and getting buried and a rider unfamiliar with deep off piste pow could lose their shit and freak out trying to escape, not to mention being unsure how to get going again or find their way out. the only down side to having a shit ton of pow (2ft range) is that you are limited to what you can ride due to how steep of a slope you have to be on to make it down.


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## chomps1211 (Mar 30, 2011)

Don't wish to HiJack the thread, but I feel the need to ask a "NooB" question,..

Originally posted by Snowolf; 
_use the rear foot to actually control edge pressure and tilt for a more surfboard like feel and to prevent the powder tomahawk._

I think I _might_ just have a picture in my head of exactly what the *"Powder Tomahawk"* probably is, but just so I can be certain,..

WTF exactly _Is_ a Powder Tomahawk?? I'm imagining the nose of the board Augering down Hard @ speed into the deep stuff and that, _that_ serves as the starting point for this particular process?


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## HoboMaster (May 16, 2010)

chomps1211 said:


> Don't wish to HiJack the thread, but I feel the need to ask a "NooB" question,..
> 
> Originally posted by Snowolf;
> _use the rear foot to actually control edge pressure and tilt for a more surfboard like feel and to prevent the powder tomahawk._
> ...


Think of it like this... Ever seen someone or gone over the bars yourself on a bicycle? The bicycle stops but your momentum doesn't. The Tomahawk involves going fast, having your nose nosedive into powder which stops your momentum, making you basically do a front flip onto your ass. Sometimes these can be saved and you will actually land back on your board and ride it out. Other times you will fly through the air like a ragdoll :laugh:


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## NWBoarder (Jan 10, 2010)

chomps1211 said:


> I'm imagining the nose of the board Augering down Hard @ speed into the deep stuff and that, _that_ serves as the starting point for this particular process?


You hit the nail on the head Chomps.


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## boarderinblack (Apr 15, 2012)

Powder riding on steeps keeps being pain in my ass too. I’m not an experienced rider, may be 40 days in total. I have 158 hybrid camrock board and i weigh 138 lb only. 

My problem is about turns on steep slopes taking so long time because shifting my center of gravity to the back limits my back leg’s ability in turns. Delay in my turns causes excessive speed and sometimes losing my control on steeps. I would be glad, if someone may explain how to make agressive turns on steep slopes while riding on powder. 

I still try to figure out the role of front leg in turn initiation on powder. Should i use my front leg first to iniate to turn by using the torsional force like in groomed runs or keep steady while backfoot initiating turn by using edges like in kitesurfing or wakeboarding? 

Is popping essential for quick turns? If yes, how should i do it to make aggresive and quick turns?

I would be glad, if you have a look into my riding style and feel free to make comment or advice about my technique(I’m the one in black snowsuit). I still have some serious doubts about my technique. Thank you for your help...

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## scotty100 (Apr 3, 2012)

HoboMaster said:


> Think of it like this... Ever seen someone or gone over the bars yourself on a bicycle? The bicycle stops but your momentum doesn't. The Tomahawk involves going fast, having your nose nosedive into powder which stops your momentum, making you basically do a front flip onto your ass. Sometimes these can be saved and you will actually land back on your board and ride it out. Other times you will fly through the air like a ragdoll :laugh:


That's exactly what happened to me at Squaw in tahoe this past weekend. This is my first season riding and last weekend was my first ever taste of the powder...literally...I was eating it big time and went over the front edge of the board about 3 or 4 times in some spectacular wipe-outs! Up to now my lessons have not included what to do when you ride powder and wow did I get creamed big time. If I wasn't tomahawking I was coming to a dead stop and had no clue how to get out of it and get going again...was a learning experience for sure!! I'm still not sure what to do but will be pouring over this part of the forum for the next few weeks to understand where I went wrong...:laugh:


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## chub11 (Apr 8, 2012)

scotty100 said:


> That's exactly what happened to me at Squaw in tahoe this past weekend. This is my first season riding and last weekend was my first ever taste of the powder...literally...I was eating it big time and went over the front edge of the board about 3 or 4 times in some spectacular wipe-outs! Up to now my lessons have not included what to do when you ride powder and wow did I get creamed big time. If I wasn't tomahawking I was coming to a dead stop and had no clue how to get out of it and get going again...was a learning experience for sure!! I'm still not sure what to do but will be pouring over this part of the forum for the next few weeks to understand where I went wrong...:laugh:


Just out of curiosity, which runs were you riding? I ride at Squaw too, and there are a bunch of really fun places to get some great snow on powder days. Last week was awesome!


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## scotty100 (Apr 3, 2012)

chub11 said:


> Just out of curiosity, which runs were you riding? I ride at Squaw too, and there are a bunch of really fun places to get some great snow on powder days. Last week was awesome!


Yeah - it was awesome. And not too busy either. I was on a few green runs including east broadway and baileys I think then a couple of blues including saddle I think but can't remember the other one. I got stuck off the side of east broadway a few times...quite funny...for my wife anyway...


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## chub11 (Apr 8, 2012)

scotty100 said:


> Yeah - it was awesome. And not too busy either. I was on a few green runs including east broadway and baileys I think then a couple of blues including saddle I think but can't remember the other one. I got stuck off the side of east broadway a few times...quite funny...for my wife anyway...


Yeah I nearly killed myself at one point when I transitioned from groomer to powder and didn't realize it until my nose caught and I was tomahawking :laugh:... I had most of my weight on my front foot and was going pretty fast. Getting stuck sucks, especially when you have skier friends who tease you when you have to unstrap and climb out!


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## scotty100 (Apr 3, 2012)

chub11 said:


> Yeah I nearly killed myself at one point when I transitioned from groomer to powder and didn't realize it until my nose caught and I was tomahawking :laugh:... I had most of my weight on my front foot and was going pretty fast. Getting stuck sucks, especially when you have skier friends who tease you when you have to unstrap and climb out!


Dude that is EXACTLY what happened to me...with my wife skiing behind me laughing her ass off...:laugh: You going back up again this weekend? I reckon that's my last trip up for this season. I did buy the special price season pass for next season though so I plan on hitting squaw a lot December onwards...can't wait...:thumbsup:


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## chub11 (Apr 8, 2012)

scotty100 said:


> Dude that is EXACTLY what happened to me...with my wife skiing behind me laughing her ass off...:laugh: You going back up again this weekend? I reckon that's my last trip up for this season. I did buy the special price season pass for next season though so I plan on hitting squaw a lot December onwards...can't wait...:thumbsup:


I might go up this weekend, not sure yet. Hopefully next season will be better than this one, even though I can't complain too much with all the late snow we're getting.


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## Sick-Pow (May 5, 2008)

^^^another awesome chapter of your book.


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## Frankyis4 (Jan 18, 2012)

Snowolf just needs to put all his information in one central place. I learn so much from the post


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## chub11 (Apr 8, 2012)

Frankyis4 said:


> Snowolf just needs to put all his information in one central place. I learn so much from the post


:thumbsup:


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## scotty100 (Apr 3, 2012)

Snowolf said:


> Thanks guys, just love talking snowboarding....:thumbsup:


You should definitely write a book or something...publish it online maybe. Your instruction and advice are first class plus you write well in a clear manner, easy to understand etc. Not many people can do that.:thumbsup:


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## boarderinblack (Apr 15, 2012)

It’s really hard to explain the pleasure offered by riding a snowboard off-piste in soft fresh powder snow. Floating feeling brings full of freedom and happiness. 

I’m not an extreme snowboarder but dont deny riding steep slopes and deep powder making me feel better.

I try not to tilt my board too much from one edge to the other in turns before speeding up. In steep slopes, this technique does not help me much. I definitely need to make quick and short turns. 

I think jump turns are essential to save time and take control of the board. I keep practising to jump with my board, pivot in the air and land on the opposite edge. I still need to have time and knowledge to figure out hopping part imo because my landdings are not generally straight across the fall line when i hop to turn and most of them result in tomahawk. I would like to hear your opinions about jump turns...


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## ETM (Aug 11, 2009)

Try a swallow tail. You wont need to do jump turns anymore.


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## boarderinblack (Apr 15, 2012)

ETM said:


> Try a swallow tail. You wont need to do jump turns anymore.


Thanks for your suggestion. I’m gonna try one asap. I would love to have one, they look pretty sexy but I already had a freeride/pow board, Nidecker Mega. On the other hand, I’m planning to buy a mountain freestyle / park board soon…


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## ju87 (Mar 9, 2011)

boarderinblack said:


> Thanks for your suggestion. I’m gonna try one asap. I would love to have one, they look pretty sexy but I already had a freeride/pow board, Nidecker Mega. On the other hand, I’m planning to buy a mountain freestyle / park board soon…


Sorry about the OT... what kind of bindings are you running on that Mega? I have the same board and I think my bindings might be a bit too soft for it (Flux TT30).

Cheers


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## Sick-Pow (May 5, 2008)

Mega is the MEgalight? Not a pow board FYI. Just another mountain "twin". No taper.

Tom Burt says about 10mm of taper is just about perfect for a "free ride" board, Helps with those pow turns in the steeps. I think hybrid rockers help even more.


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## grafta (Dec 21, 2009)

ETM said:


> Try a swallow tail. You wont need to do jump turns anymore.


People have trouble slashing tight turns in pow? Doesn't really seem that difficult to me... I guess if you want a 'soft' ride that you don't have to put much effort in then that sounds like an option. I thought swallow tail was to help tail to sink to keep the nose up in deep deep pow?


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## ETM (Aug 11, 2009)

A swallow tail changes the whole dynamic of the board, it does more than just help the nose float and one of the things I found is it allows you to turn much easier on steeper slopes in deep powder. It makes a slope ridable that you wouldnt be able to ride on a normal board, if thats being soft so be it, to me being soft is not trying new things to see if you like them or not.
A swallow tail one of those things you just cant get your head around until you ride one in deep pow.


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## grafta (Dec 21, 2009)

I guess I see people riding true twins in some insane shit so I figure, who needs a dedicated pow board really? I know it's different strokes for different folks so don't get me wrong. I think it's a different way of riding that is def just as legit.

Thread is about front leg vs back, so sorry bout the hijack. My comment on that? Whatever is appropriate and works. If you got submarine tip action going on you best be leaning back :laugh:


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## boarderinblack (Apr 15, 2012)

ju87 said:


> Sorry about the OT... what kind of bindings are you running on that Mega? I have the same board and I think my bindings might be a bit too soft for it (Flux TT30).
> 
> Cheers


I usually prefer to ride with my Ride El-hefe and Rossignol HC 3000 on off-piste powder. I haven’t got any chance to try Flux TT before but I had chance to ride with Union Atlas and Union Force SL, softer ones compared to my bindings. I feel more comfortable and controlled with my hard bindings on powder compared to those Union`s(no offence-i’m not a pro and i really love to snowboard with unions on groomers ) Binding’s response rate counts for me if i make a mistake on powder while riding in high speed. I would suggest you to try stiff bindings with your board if possible. I believe that megalight(camrock) has good flexibility for those stiff bindings and you`ll see the difference on powder.



Sick-Pow said:


> Mega is the MEgalight? Not a pow board FYI. Just another mountain "twin". No taper.
> 
> Tom Burt says about 10mm of taper is just about perfect for a "free ride" board, Helps with those pow turns in the steeps. I think hybrid rockers help even more.


I have very limited knowledge about snowboarding but Nidecker Megalight(camrock w/ultimate grip) is described as advanced to expert freeride and powder board by the company and other review sites as well as I see. 

It’s definitely not a twin board. On the contrary, it’s directional and nose is significantly longer/wider than the tail. This board features 20mm of taper. 

I agree with your perspective about hybrid rockers. Actually, from a distance my camrock board looks like a rocker board but when you look closer you see the little camber between the feet.


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