# finally sick of the unions



## East§ide (Mar 14, 2011)

okay so i've officially had it with the forces. ive disliked them since day 1 and have hated them more and more with every day on the hill. so now i come to my decision..

do i go with :
rome 390's (boss)
ride capo
burton cartel

I want a solid all mountain binding, preferably with canted footbeds.. ive read great things on all 3, so im curious what you guys think? does one have more positives over another? ive only ever ridden cartels out of the three.

any help would be great. thanks


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## jml22 (Apr 10, 2012)

i'd throw flux in there as well


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## East§ide (Mar 14, 2011)

like rk30's ?


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## Peyto (Mar 21, 2012)

Worth taking a look at some K2 and Raiden options as well. Both have canting and quality dampening systems.


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## jml22 (Apr 10, 2012)

Well take your pick for your riding style, they're just really good bindings.
SF45s are the stiffer ones
TT30s/RK30s are more or less the same except RK30s have a urethane high back giving you a lot more flex.
I think TT30s are nylon highbacks but they still flex a bit. I have TT30s and i really like them.


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## zk0ot (Nov 9, 2009)

raiden blackhawks... canted full foam.


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## sixpoint (Nov 17, 2012)

Ive tried 4 other brands... I always come back to burton. can i ask what set you over the edge with the forces? flex, weight, sticky ratchets, comfort


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## UNION INHOUSE (Nov 13, 2012)

East§ide said:


> okay so i've officially had it with the forces. ive disliked them since day 1 and have hated them more and more with every day on the hill. so now i come to my decision..
> 
> do i go with :
> rome 390's (boss)
> ...


What's the problem? It would be good to know, even for the people recommending other binding brands.


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## Bleedblue666 (Nov 2, 2012)

Burton all the way !!!!


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## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

As a "warning" the Cartel isnt what it has been the last few years. I feel like it's back to being the freestyle dominator it used to be. Where the last few years its been more all mountain almost freeride feeling. Really awesome now though. For me it's the best Carte I've been in.

For a killer deal look at the K2 Formula. Everything you want in a light responsive package. Still the team favorite. For a bit of a skatey feel the new Salomon Holograms are fantastick and what I'll be riding this year along with Flow NX2 SE's.

So of your original List, Cartels.


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## alaric (Aug 28, 2007)

UNION INHOUSE said:


> What's the problem? It would be good to know, even for the people recommending other binding brands.


So true, I'd like to know the issue. I've heard nothing but great things about Union for the most part


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## StrattonRider (Sep 16, 2012)

East§ide said:


> okay so i've officially had it with the forces. ive disliked them since day 1 and have hated them more and more with every day on the hill. so now i come to my decision..
> 
> do i go with :
> rome 390's (boss)
> ...


i have the burton Cartels and i have like 6 days on them. I absolutely love them. I ride a lot of park and like to also ride groomers and glades. The binding has just the right flex for when i want to do some jibbing to bombing the groomers. It is just an all around perfect binding. oh and it also has what they call a "get a grip toe strap" It is a toe strap that has some sort of rubber on the inside that keeps your boot from slipping out. I give it a double :thumbsup:


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## Extremo (Nov 6, 2008)

If you're sick of Union, you'll think Flux are complete dog shit. I was impressed with the Cartel's. The 390's are legit, also look at the Raiden Phantom. I'd personally recommend the Union Atlas with a Burton toe cap upgrade.


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## stunt66 (Jan 7, 2009)

I've also heard nothing but good things about the forces too, 2 of my buddies ride them and swear by them. Fill us in on the problem. 

I've been riding EST cartels for 2 years now and have no complaints.


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## tdn (Dec 30, 2010)

^ They aren't canted.

OP, all three of your choices are great. I currently ride the 2012 Cartels on my all mountain board, 390s on my park/all mountain board.


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## StreetDoc (Dec 24, 2011)

I went from force's to Capos and I'm happy


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## blunted_nose (Apr 26, 2012)

At union - Your toe cap stinks, and the worst of all, you haven't fixed it yet. saw a guy today with union toe strap on so awkwardly that i busted out laughing.

OP - Burton are awesome, but today i looked at 2013 drake bindings, and they looked sick. I haven't tried em yet, but the base foam was soft, air bag for heel and the strap was super comfy and toe looked like it would work better. Tho you cant go wrong with cartels. What im picking up for my camel toe.


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## StreetDoc (Dec 24, 2011)

blunted_nose said:


> At union - Your toe cap stinks, and the worst of all, you haven't fixed it yet. saw a guy today with union toe strap on so awkwardly that i busted out laughing.
> 
> OP - Burton are awesome, but today i looked at 2013 drake bindings, and they looked sick. I haven't tried em yet, but the base foam was soft, air bag for heel and the strap was super comfy and toe looked like it would work better. Tho you cant go wrong with cartels. What im picking up for my camel toe.


I agree, that was my issue too. Toe strap was not good. It's a shame, otherwise I really liked how they were light and simple designed.


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## Alkasquawlik (Jul 13, 2010)

FWIW, the upgraded toe cap fits many people. I'm pissed they changed it, the OG toe cap was so much better IMO


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## Extremo (Nov 6, 2008)

blunted_nose said:


> At union - Your toe cap stinks, and the worst of all, you haven't fixed it yet. saw a guy today with union toe strap on so awkwardly that i busted out laughing.
> 
> OP - Burton are awesome, but today i looked at 2013 drake bindings, and they looked sick. I haven't tried em yet, but the base foam was soft, air bag for heel and the strap was super comfy and toe looked like it would work better. Tho you cant go wrong with cartels. What im picking up for my camel toe.


Union's new split toe is the same thing that Rome is offering on the 390. And it's better than any other split out there (Raiden, Now, K2) and lasts longer than Ride's rubber web that breaks apart within a season and turns into a shitty version of the split cap anyways.


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## EatMyTracers (Sep 26, 2012)

Any reason no one recommends flux or even talks about them? I have the dmcc light and love them, no problems yet and only heard good things about them when i was researching them.


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## extra0 (Jan 16, 2010)

I rode 2012 cartels last season. Super stoked on the simplicity, dampening and ultra light weight...but re:flex seems a bit loose. I'm gonna keep them for my smaller freestyle/groomer deck, but considering something else for my freeride/powder board.


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## tonyisnowhere (Sep 24, 2012)

Extremo said:


> If you're sick of Union, you'll think Flux are complete dog shit. I was impressed with the Cartel's. The 390's are legit, also look at the Raiden Phantom. I'd personally recommend the Union Atlas with a Burton toe cap upgrade.


nice I will look into that idea :thumbsup:


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## deepcove (Oct 20, 2012)

East§ide said:


> okay so i've officially had it with the forces. ive disliked them since day 1 and have hated them more and more with every day on the hill. so now i come to my decision..
> 
> do i go with :
> rome 390's (boss)
> ...


What size are you forces and how much do you want for them?


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## East§ide (Mar 14, 2011)

the forces are L/XL (10+) and i have no idea how much lol. Theyre the acid green colorway. I spoke to a guy at Union yesterday who was suppposed to send me info on where to ship them to get looked at (he was really nice, said that theyd hook it up and replace the toe caps with better ones, ankle straps, high backs, etc.) but i never got any info from him. Hopefully i will soon.
I liked the look of Flux, but i keep hearing big things about the 390's and i love cartels..i threw the capos in there cause id really rather have canted footbeds if possible.


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## Joe Coffee (Dec 12, 2012)

East§ide said:


> the forces are L/XL (10+) and i have no idea how much lol. Theyre the acid green colorway. I spoke to a guy at Union yesterday who was suppposed to send me info on where to ship them to get looked at (he *was really nice, said that theyd hook it up and replace the toe caps with better ones, ankle straps, high backs, etc.*) but i never got any info from him. Hopefully i will soon.
> I liked the look of Flux, but i keep hearing big things about the 390's and i love cartels..i threw the capos in there cause id really rather have canted footbeds if possible.


Theres awesome customer service for you. Stick with union. Just try a different model.


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## East§ide (Mar 14, 2011)

it was great customer service, except that i still havent heard from them! hopefully i will. the big issue is that while theyre being sent across the country, im kinda beat on riding until i get them back. but hey, it is what it is


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## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

Extremo said:


> Union's new split toe is the same thing that Rome is offering on the 390. And it's better than any other split out there (Raiden, Now, K2) and lasts longer than Ride's rubber web that breaks apart within a season and turns into a shitty version of the split cap anyways.


bahahaha same as Romes. That's cute. If its better than any other toe strap out there why is it we only hear about the Union strap not fitting boots? I have yet to hear anyone complain about K2's (which by the way on the Formula and up has individual adjustment for the top and bottom portion), I haven't heard anyone complain about the Raidens either. Picking on NOW? A first year product? Oh and even for a first year product I was more impressed than with Union. Yeah Rides web breaks, and somehow it doesn't effect the functionality. Which is why it"s the most popular mod to Unions.

Nice try.

Union needs to bring back the gen2 strap or shrink the one they have by 25%.

And your comment about Flux, why is it no one complains about their toe strap? Or toe ratchet? Or anything really? Oh right, cause anyone that doesn't like Union is just a hater.


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## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

EatMyTracers said:


> Any reason no one recommends flux or even talks about them? I have the dmcc light and love them, no problems yet and only heard good things about them when i was researching them.


Well in this case the OP said canted. Flux doesn't do that yet. Otherwise yeah, the DMCC Lights are awesome and one of my favorite binddings.


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## East§ide (Mar 14, 2011)

i find it hilarious to compare Unions toe caps to ANYONE else's. For a binding specific company, it baffles me that their toe caps have ZERO rubber or anything to allow for friction on the inside. Instead, you get this goofy leather that looses any friction whatsoever as soon as it gets wet. Ive debated just buying burton toe caps to put on them, but I think its a shame that this "awesome" binding company needs toe caps just to make them work. Ive compared with ride, rome, flux, burton, k2, even gnu..every single toe cap makes more sense.


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## East§ide (Mar 14, 2011)

has anyone tried the NOW IPO's? how are they? they look VERY interesting.


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## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

The IPO's are awesome. They do what they say and are a great ride.


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## East§ide (Mar 14, 2011)

would you go with those or canted re:flex cartels? i think thats basically where im at now. which do you think would be more comfortable long term? it looks like their hinging system kind of makes up for not being canted but it all seems like alot of tech speak


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## TorpedoVegas (Dec 25, 2011)

East§ide said:


> would you go with those or canted re:flex cartels? i think thats basically where im at now. which do you think would be more comfortable long term? it looks like their hinging system kind of makes up for not being canted but it all seems like alot of tech speak


I've been going back and forth between my Now IPOs and my reflex Cartels... I am liking the Now bindings more and more every day. I think they beat out the Cartels now in my mind.


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## East§ide (Mar 14, 2011)

are the cartels canted? do you feel a difference? im SO torn now. id never even considered the IPO's until today


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## Extremo (Nov 6, 2008)

Nivek said:


> bahahaha same as Romes. That's cute. If its better than any other toe strap out there why is it we only hear about the Union strap not fitting boots? I have yet to hear anyone complain about K2's (which by the way on the Formula and up has individual adjustment for the top and bottom portion), I haven't heard anyone complain about the Raidens either. Picking on NOW? A first year product? Oh and even for a first year product I was more impressed than with Union. Yeah Rides web breaks, and somehow it doesn't effect the functionality. Which is why it"s the most popular mod to Unions.
> 
> Nice try.
> 
> ...


What are you a retard? The Rome cap strap is a shit box split cap with some useless rubber thrown over the top. It's a sad attempt to mimic rides gel weave (which is pretty sick until it shreds apart). If people can't figure out how to run the Union split straps that's their fault. 

My flux blow so hard. Unibody baseplace that feels like a tank. Hollow ankle strap provides no support. And ratchets that stick, don't slide down the ladder, and only click 1-2 ladder steps at a time. The only thing they have going for them is the toe cap and the quick release of the 3 stage ratchets. They're far from top tier bindings. Which sucks, because I was really rooting for the company.


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## Cr0_Reps_Smit (Jun 27, 2009)

Extremo said:


> What are you a retard? The Rome cap strap is a shit box split cap with some useless rubber thrown over the top. It's a sad attempt to mimic rides gel weave (which is pretty sick until it shreds apart). If people can't figure out how to run the Union split straps that's their fault.
> 
> My flux blow so hard. Unibody baseplace that feels like a tank. Hollow ankle strap provides no support. And ratchets that stick, don't slide down the ladder, and only click 1-2 ladder steps at a time. The only thing they have going for them is the toe cap and the quick release of the 3 stage ratchets. They're far from top tier bindings. Which sucks, because I was really rooting for the company.


we must be riding different bindings because my flux's are awesome and never have a problem with the ratchets, always smooth. best fitting toe straps on the market in my opinion. 

as for the rome's i have a pair of 390s from at least 4 years ago and the toe straps on those are still money. my room mate is using them now with no problems what so ever. the "useless" rubber does a great job at staying in place, way better then i was ever able to get with unions.


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## Extremo (Nov 6, 2008)

Cr0_Reps_Smit said:


> we must be riding different bindings because my flux's are awesome and never have a problem with the ratchets, always smooth. best fitting toe straps on the market in my opinion.
> 
> as for the rome's i have a pair of 390s from at least 4 years ago and the toe straps on those are still money. my room mate is using them now with no problems what so ever. the "useless" rubber does a great job at staying in place, way better then i was ever able to get with unions.


The 390 has a new cap design. Old one was better IMO.


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## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

Extremo said:


> The 390 has a new cap design. Old one was better IMO.


I haven't used the new one. But with close inspection the rubber is thicker than Rides. the thicker wider bands are less likely to break. I have very little doubts it works. I will say I'm not entirely sure why they felt they needed to change it at all as the old one had nothing wrong with it.


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## Extremo (Nov 6, 2008)

Nivek said:


> I haven't used the new one. But with close inspection the rubber is thicker than Rides. the thicker wider bands are less likely to break. I have very little doubts it works. I will say I'm not entirely sure why they felt they needed to change it at all as the old one had nothing wrong with it.


It doesn't put the pressure over the entire toe the way Rides does. It puts a little but not enough to be considered anything other than cosmetic? I don't know. 390s are a sick binding. Only gripe I had was too soft of an ankle strap but that's just based on preference. Not sure why they decided to change either. Not that it's really bad. I just don't think they made it better.


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## Alkasquawlik (Jul 13, 2010)

Nivek said:


> bahahaha same as Romes. That's cute. If its better than any other toe strap out there why is it we only hear about the Union strap not fitting boots? I have yet to hear anyone complain about K2's (which by the way on the Formula and up has individual adjustment for the top and bottom portion), I haven't heard anyone complain about the Raidens either. Picking on NOW? A first year product? Oh and even for a first year product I was more impressed than with Union. Yeah Rides web breaks, and somehow it doesn't effect the functionality. Which is why it"s the most popular mod to Unions.
> 
> Nice try.
> 
> ...


ha, Union is the only company that you hear complaints about toe caps?
Strange, the toe caps on my OG Malavitas always slipped up over my boot, numerous times a day. Not enough to make it a huge issue, but I never had to deal with it when I was riding my Forces. I'm gonna give them another try with a pair of Infidels I got this season, so we'll see if it's still an issue. Hopefully not.


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## Alkasquawlik (Jul 13, 2010)

East§ide said:


> i find it hilarious to compare Unions toe caps to ANYONE else's. For a binding specific company, it baffles me that their toe caps have ZERO rubber or anything to allow for friction on the inside. Instead, you get this goofy leather that looses any friction whatsoever as soon as it gets wet. Ive debated just buying burton toe caps to put on them, but I think its a shame that this "awesome" binding company needs toe caps just to make them work. Ive compared with ride, rome, flux, burton, k2, even gnu..every single toe cap makes more sense.


They hold my toe in place, perfectly fine. I don't need anything more than that.

haha why do you need friction on the inside, if you place them properly over the toe, it's going to hold it down, regardless of any "rubber" inside.


and it's completely laughable that you claim that Gnu has better toe caps than Union. That alone makes your post, and your opinion irrelevant for being such a dumb twat.


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## blunted_nose (Apr 26, 2012)

Alkasquawlik said:


> They hold my toe in place, perfectly fine. I don't need anything more than that.
> 
> haha why do you need friction on the inside, if you place them properly over the toe, it's going to hold it down, regardless of any "rubber" inside.
> 
> ...


Actually their toe strap works better. Union toe strap is a piece of shit, little fuck just laying there. does nothing and looks like it would fit my soccer shoes. Whether you admit it or not.


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## kctahoe (Nov 14, 2010)

blunted_nose said:


> Actually their toe strap works better. Union toe strap is a piece of shit, little fuck just laying there. does nothing and looks like it would fit my soccer shoes. Whether you admit it or not.


Have you ever rode a pair of unions, or owned them?


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## blunted_nose (Apr 26, 2012)

kctahoe said:


> Have you ever rode a pair of unions, or owned them?


Yep, 2009 forces. And dont tell me how the new toe strap is much better and solves everything.... please.


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## kctahoe (Nov 14, 2010)

Not going to I was just curious. I had 2010 forces, didn't think they were anything special, but not horrible, never had an issue with the old toestrap, but yet to try the new design.


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## Alkasquawlik (Jul 13, 2010)

blunted_nose said:


> Actually their toe strap works better. Union toe strap is a piece of shit, little fuck just laying there. does nothing and looks like it would fit my soccer shoes. Whether you admit it or not.


Have you ridden the Gnus?

I'd bet anything that you haven't haha, because if you did, you're a complete fucking idiot.
Those toe straps are awful, and fit terribly. Let alone the binding feels mushy and loose (I'm talking specifically about the rear entry ones, whatever they're called). Like the toe strap is the end all, be all of a binding anyway.

And the fact that you haven't even ridden the updated toe strap shows how ignorant you are. I hated the fact that they changed from the OG strap, I loved it. But apparently there were enough people complaining that Union decided to go with a new design, which fits more boot variations. Of course there are going to be outliers, but that's true with any binding company. 

And if you're going to get into an argument with someone about the differences in gear, with actual riding experience on them, I'd suggest picking that fight with someone else.


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## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

Alkasquawlik said:


> ha, Union is the only company that you hear complaints about toe caps?
> Strange, the toe caps on my OG Malavitas always slipped up over my boot, numerous times a day. Not enough to make it a huge issue, but I never had to deal with it when I was riding my Forces. I'm gonna give them another try with a pair of Infidels I got this season, so we'll see if it's still an issue. Hopefully not.


Burton's isn't the best, that's fair. I never had an issue with mine, but I know a couple people that have. It is far less common than hearing people with Union toe strap problems though.

Good luck with the Infidels, the wings aren't really all that useful on the outside, but it is still my favorite binding from them ever. Using 30% short glass in that 2 piece frame was money. Dumbest idea to get rid of it.


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## Derp (Feb 3, 2012)

blunted_nose said:


> Yep, 2009 forces. And dont tell me how the new toe strap is much better and solves everything.... please.


The new toe strap is much better and solves everything.


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## deepcove (Oct 20, 2012)

Nivek said:


> Burton's isn't the best, that's fair. I never had an issue with mine, but I know a couple people that have. It is far less common than hearing people with Union toe strap problems though.
> 
> Good luck with the Infidels, the wings aren't really all that useful on the outside, but it is still my favorite binding from them ever. Using 30% short glass in that 2 piece frame was money. Dumbest idea to get rid of it.


Burton's isn't the best is an understatement.....by far the most useless toe caps I have ever had and I was using them with a pair of Burton boots. My Unions ( both Atlas and Contact pro's) work great with Burton boots....figure that one out......:dizzy:


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## snowjab (Dec 22, 2010)

I started the season with cartels and did not like the big reflex ankle strap and not as rwsponsive as the capo i rode last year. Then i finally gave flux sf45 a try and they're the most responsive binding ever. not much tech but simple is better sometimes. My capo were great but i did have an issue with the ladder strap shredding up and sliding off the rachet. not good.


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## CalvaryCougar (Nov 3, 2009)

just get some contrabands and forget it! :laugh:














i love mine


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## mitch19 (Jul 27, 2011)

CalvaryCougar said:


> just get some contrabands and forget it! :laugh:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Fuckin' pain to get adjusted to your boot though, and it needs to be perfect


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## legallyillegal (Oct 6, 2008)

not really, ive broken the thong on mine and was fine


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## mitch19 (Jul 27, 2011)

Each to their own I guess, the ones I had I just couldn't get comfortable and binned them.


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## East§ide (Mar 14, 2011)

Alkasquawlik said:


> They hold my toe in place, perfectly fine. I don't need anything more than that.
> 
> haha why do you need friction on the inside, if you place them properly over the toe, it's going to hold it down, regardless of any "rubber" inside.
> 
> ...


first of all, suck my dick. secondly, if you know anything about basic physics, friction on the inside of the toe cap would stop it from sliding up or down. im pretty sure even someone as fucking stupid as you can put the toe caps in the right spot just like i do. im glad they work for you..for myself and countless others, they're steaming piles of floppy leather shit. whats completely laughable is how bad you want to suck Union's cock. Guess what? Ive looked at basically every toe cap I could find and Union's are by far the most worthless of the bunch. They're flat (no curvature at all), they have textured leather that gets worn down to flat in 5 days on the hill, and they dont fit over a majority of boots.

But just in case you dont want to read all of that, heres a tl;dr : go fuck your mother


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## Extremo (Nov 6, 2008)

East§ide said:


> first of all, suck my dick. secondly, if you know anything about basic physics, friction on the inside of the toe cap would stop it from sliding up or down. im pretty sure even someone as fucking stupid as you can put the toe caps in the right spot just like i do. im glad they work for you..for myself and countless others, they're steaming piles of floppy leather shit. whats completely laughable is how bad you want to suck Union's cock. Guess what? Ive looked at basically every toe cap I could find and Union's are by far the most worthless of the bunch. They're flat (no curvature at all), they have textured leather that gets worn down to flat in 5 days on the hill, and they dont fit over a majority of boots.
> 
> But just in case you dont want to read all of that, heres a tl;dr : go fuck your mother


I disagree with this as well. I have the SL's with the new split cap and the Atlas with a Burton get-a-grip upgrade. I switch up my boards daily depending whether I'm riding park or the mountain. Niether strap is better or worse than the other. You may not like the look of the Union, but they work and feel pretty much exactly the same. I don't even notice the difference while riding. Maybe they'd be a problem if I wasn't able to get them so center properly or something, who knows. But for me that isn't the case.


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## East§ide (Mar 14, 2011)

fair enough, however ive had cartels, missions, even Ride Ex and LX and I can say that all 4 of them had better quality toe caps than the Unions. The Unions are also less than 18 months old and have more visible damage to the leather, the highback padding, etc than any of the other bindings..the cartels and missions were from 2009. If you like your Union toe caps, then all the power to you. Personally, I think they're worthless and the ones on my girlfriends Burton Citizen bindings are better quality


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## Extremo (Nov 6, 2008)

East§ide said:


> fair enough, however ive had cartels, missions, even Ride Ex and LX and I can say that all 4 of them had better quality toe caps than the Unions. The Unions are also less than 18 months old and have more visible damage to the leather, the highback padding, etc than any of the other bindings..the cartels and missions were from 2009. If you like your Union toe caps, then all the power to you. Personally, I think they're worthless and the ones on my girlfriends Burton Citizen bindings are better quality


Oh definitely. Any fabric covered strap is going to get shredded after awhile. The Burton get-a-grip strap is indestructable. I guess the Union straps just work better for some than others.


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## UNION INHOUSE (Nov 13, 2012)

Extremo said:


> Oh definitely. Any fabric covered strap is going to get shredded after awhile. The Burton get-a-grip strap is indestructable. I guess the Union straps just work better for some than others.



Agreed. Do people get mad when their shoes wear out? Straps are like shoes - use them and they wear. 

It is time for Eastsside to move on. Buy something else, go shred and have FUN. Much better than debating about it on the internet for days on end.


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## KBNYY (Jan 8, 2012)

The only issue I have had with my Union's is that when I cinch down, my little toe feels a bit pinched. Never had that problem with the Cartels, but then again I feel like I have better response from the DLXs. Could just be that I need to adjust it out a bit.


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## East§ide (Mar 14, 2011)

UNION INHOUSE said:


> Agreed. Do people get mad when their shoes wear out? Straps are like shoes - use them and they wear.
> 
> It is time for Eastsside to move on. Buy something else, go shred and have FUN. Much better than debating about it on the internet for days on end.


1. I've never had a pair of shoes start to tear, fray and fall apart (the plastic pieces on my highbacks pop out and one even fell off the lift the other day)... and in the case that they did, im pretty sure the company would send a new pair without hesitation. In fact, that did happen to me ONCE with a pair of shoes, and not only did i get a new pair, i was sent a second pair just for my troubles.

2. I wouldn't be complaining at all if the rep that I spoke with actually emailed me the information. I feel like I was yes'd to death to get me off the phone. 

3. If I was GOING to push your brand to anyone, the fact that rather than try to justify your product or do right by your customers, you think that it is time for me to "MOVE ON"? If that's the case, can I get my $200.00 back for your shotty product?

Word to the wise from an actual salesperson and someone who works in a professional setting - the customer is always right, your reputation hinges not on the satisfied people but the ones who aren't satisfied that you do right by, and when representing a company as a web presence, you should act like a professional. The fact that you're a binding specific company and think it's time to move on to another company just shows how little faith YOU have in your product.

Learn how to represent your brand.


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## Argo (Feb 25, 2010)

Sounds like someone bitching about a product to justify shity ability. We have 40 days this season on a pair of union atlas bindings. The split toe strap works great. Between my son and I we have flux tt30, flux dmcc light, forum Shaka, Rome 390 boss x 2, flow five, flow nx2at and union atlas. I sold 4 pairs of different Burton bindings and 2 pairs of older flows this fall also. 

My sons primary binding for training and competition is the union atlas. It is loose enough for park and responsive enough for pipe, slope and he even likes it for boarder cross races..... 

Granted we have never used any older models of union so I don't know if they suck on the toe strap or not..... 

Either way there is no reason to suck anyone off or fornicate with their moms.... Get a different binding, I'm sure you will bitch and moan about it too..... I'm gonna eat some lunch and get a few more laps in before I go to work.


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## tdn (Dec 30, 2010)

UNION INHOUSE said:


> Agreed. Do people get mad when their shoes wear out? Straps are like shoes - use them and they wear.
> 
> It is time for Eastsside to move on. Buy something else, go shred and have FUN. Much better than debating about it on the internet for days on end.


It's a forum, he can debate whatever he wants so long as it follows the rules.

Besides, these debates can get entertaining to read on my phone when I'm bored at work.


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## East§ide (Mar 14, 2011)

Argo said:


> Sounds like someone bitching about a product to justify shity ability. We have 40 days this season on a pair of union atlas bindings. The split toe strap works great. Between my son and I we have flux tt30, flux dmcc light, forum Shaka, Rome 390 boss x 2, flow five, flow nx2at and union atlas. I sold 4 pairs of different Burton bindings and 2 pairs of older flows this fall also.
> 
> My sons primary binding for training and competition is the union atlas. It is loose enough for park and responsive enough for pipe, slope and he even likes it for boarder cross races.....
> 
> ...


actually, this thread started about asking about some other bindings. you must be super awesome with so many different pairs of bindings. pardon me for not having the same glowing experience with Unions as you do - all I know is that for a binding specific company, the quality and craftsmanship is lacking big time. Maybe that's different for the Atlas or Contacts, though they all seem to have the same exact toe cap, and EVERY shop that I go into that sells Union says that they get the same complaints all the time - the toe caps are garbage.
Explain to me how my ability has anything to do with tearing and fraying leather, pieces of plastic falling off and toe caps that slide onto the top of the boot? youre welcome to polish my sack if youre against sucking me off.


----------



## UNION INHOUSE (Nov 13, 2012)

So let me get this straight. You called the warranty department and didn't get taken care of? 

Call me. 206.632.1601 

Ask for George.


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## East§ide (Mar 14, 2011)

yes, thats exactly what happened. I called and spoke to someone who told me " oh dont worry, send in your bindings, well hook it up, change the ankle and toe caps (toe caps to a better kind he said), hook it up, make it worth your while".. i asked him to email me where to send them and I never got anything. that was 2 days ago. he told me he was emailing it in 10 minutes.


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## UNION INHOUSE (Nov 13, 2012)

East§ide said:


> yes, thats exactly what happened. I called and spoke to someone who told me " oh dont worry, send in your bindings, well hook it up, change the ankle and toe caps (toe caps to a better kind he said), hook it up, make it worth your while".. i asked him to email me where to send them and I never got anything. that was 2 days ago. he told me he was emailing it in 10 minutes.


Just call and we can resolve this. Or PM my your number and I'll call you.


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## East§ide (Mar 14, 2011)

UNION INHOUSE said:


> Just call and we can resolve this. Or PM my your number and I'll call you.


will do, i am in work right now otherwise i would. i will PM you my #. Thanks.


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## Cr0_Reps_Smit (Jun 27, 2009)

i love happy endings.


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## hktrdr (Apr 3, 2012)

East§ide said:


> 1. I've never had a pair of shoes start to tear, fray and fall apart (the plastic pieces on my highbacks pop out and one even fell off the lift the other day)... and in the case that they did, im pretty sure the company would send a new pair without hesitation. In fact, that did happen to me ONCE with a pair of shoes, and not only did i get a new pair, i was sent a second pair just for my troubles.
> 
> 2. I wouldn't be complaining at all if the rep that I spoke with actually emailed me the information. I feel like I was yes'd to death to get me off the phone.
> 
> ...


What utter nonsense.


----------



## East§ide (Mar 14, 2011)

hktrdr said:


> What utter nonsense.


YOU'RE utter nonsense, and you smell like shit. :thumbsup:


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## deepcove (Oct 20, 2012)

East§ide said:


> 1. I've never had a pair of shoes start to tear, fray and fall apart (the plastic pieces on my highbacks pop out and one even fell off the lift the other day)... and in the case that they did, im pretty sure the company would send a new pair without hesitation. In fact, that did happen to me ONCE with a pair of shoes, and not only did i get a new pair, i was sent a second pair just for my troubles.
> 
> 2. I wouldn't be complaining at all if the rep that I spoke with actually emailed me the information. I feel like I was yes'd to death to get me off the phone.
> 
> ...


I will give you some input as an actual sales person and some one who works in a professional industry. At some point you have to make a decision on weather or not you are ever going to make a customer happy, because as you said the customer is always right. I have on more than one occasion done everything possible to make a customer happy beyond reasonable expectations. Eventually I had no choice but to advise a customer to deal with another manufacturer. It has nothing to do with faith in my product, there are simply some people who will never be totally satisfied and at some point you have to stop the bleeding.


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## UNION INHOUSE (Nov 13, 2012)

East§ide said:


> YOU'RE utter nonsense, and you smell like shit. :thumbsup:


I've called you 5 times in the past 2 days. Did you get the voice messages? Who knows, maybe you type-oh'd the wrong number and some random person is getting my messages.

We are closed till Thursday, fyi. 

It's just awesome this post keeps going..


----------



## East§ide (Mar 14, 2011)

deepcove said:


> I will give you some input as an actual sales person and some one who works in a professional industry. At some point you have to make a decision on weather or not you are ever going to make a customer happy, because as you said the customer is always right. I have on more than one occasion done everything possible to make a customer happy beyond reasonable expectations. Eventually I had no choice but to advise a customer to deal with another manufacturer. It has nothing to do with faith in my product, there are simply some people who will never be totally satisfied and at some point you have to stop the bleeding.


Thank you for your input,but I'm well aware of all of this. I sold well over $150,000 in products this past month alone in a very down industry (kitchens) .. I know all about reasonable expectations, satisfying a customer and going above and beyond. Thank you though . 


UNION INHOUSE said:


> I've called you 5 times in the past 2 days. Did you get the voice messages? Who knows, maybe you type-oh'd the wrong number and some random person is getting my messages.
> 
> We are closed till Thursday, fyi.
> 
> It's just awesome this post keeps going..


This post is perpetuated by trolls. I actually did get the voicemails this morning. Sorry I have not had time to answer my phone, I have been working 12 hour days helping Sandy victims get back into their houses . I appreciate your calling and will call you back on Thursday


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## Alkasquawlik (Jul 13, 2010)

East§ide said:


> first of all, suck my dick. secondly, if you know anything about basic physics, friction on the inside of the toe cap would stop it from sliding up or down. im pretty sure even someone as fucking stupid as you can put the toe caps in the right spot just like i do. im glad they work for you..for myself and countless others, they're steaming piles of floppy leather shit. whats completely laughable is how bad you want to suck Union's cock. Guess what? Ive looked at basically every toe cap I could find and Union's are by far the most worthless of the bunch. They're flat (no curvature at all), they have textured leather that gets worn down to flat in 5 days on the hill, and they dont fit over a majority of boots.
> 
> But just in case you dont want to read all of that, heres a tl;dr : go fuck your mother


Like I said, you continue to prove that you know nothing.
Carry on.


----------



## goalieman24 (Aug 28, 2009)

East§ide said:


> Thank you for your input,but I'm well aware of all of this. I sold well over $150,000 in products this past month alone in a very down industry (kitchens) .. I know all about reasonable expectations, satisfying a customer and going above and beyond. Thank you though .


It seems you didn't quite grasp what deepcove was getting at, and instead decided to gloat on your own "accomplishments."
His post was in response to you being so taken back by being told that maybe it's time to move on... which is why he said that sometimes you encounter those who just won't be satisfied, rationalizing the advice that the Union rep gave to you. 
I :icon_scratch:'d at the "sold well over $150k" pat-on-the-back as well. One, because of its irrelevancy, and two, well... why not just say $175k(or whatever it was)?? I guess just typical salesman jargon throwing in that vague "well over" adjective instead of just a concrete figure. Not to mention, if you're in an area that has been hit hard with a natural disaster, any sort of industry dealing with rebuilding/repairs is _far_ from a down industry.


----------



## Donutz (May 12, 2010)

As a total aside, when I first saw this thread I almost moved it into the politics section. I figured it was going to be a right-wing rant about the labour movement. :laugh:


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## snowklinger (Aug 30, 2011)

Donutz said:


> As a total aside, when I first saw this thread I almost moved it into the politics section. I figured it was going to be a right-wing rant about the labour movement. :laugh:


same.

some wierd disconnect with an argument that was much more impassioned a hundred years ago being brought back on the interwebs. 

but then we were "rewarded" with this drivel...


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## SHREDDER97 (Aug 1, 2010)

OP i highly recommend the 390 boss's and the new cartels. Formulas surprised me last year. Very solid bindings for the price. IMO i don't think union has changed a damn thing on the forces in the past 5 year (except the toe strap which got worse) but continue to charge top dollar. Not bashing them just saying.


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## Extremo (Nov 6, 2008)

SHREDDER97 said:


> OP i highly recommend the 390 boss's and the new cartels. Formulas surprised me last year. Very solid bindings for the price. IMO i don't think union has changed a damn thing on the forces in the past 5 year (except the toe strap which got worse) but continue to charge top dollar. Not bashing them just saying.


As someone who's owned several models of Forces over the past 5 years I can tell you they've changed a lot.


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## Alkasquawlik (Jul 13, 2010)

SHREDDER97 said:


> OP i highly recommend the 390 boss's and the new cartels. Formulas surprised me last year. Very solid bindings for the price. *IMO i don't think union has changed a damn thing on the forces in the past 5 year (except the toe strap which got worse) but continue to charge top dollar. Not bashing them just saying*.


The ignorance is big with this one..

I wasn't aware the Force was a "top dollar" binding haha, the Cartel is more expensive than it.
And yes, there have been changes.


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## scottb7 (Nov 19, 2012)

i have to say i have used ride contrabands for 3 years and they are pretty good.


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## Argo (Feb 25, 2010)

Dude probably will never call and get a solution offered by the owner of union..... I'm sure he has more fun bitching about it.....


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## phony_stark (Jul 2, 2011)

Lotsa LULZ going on in this thread....


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## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

Extremo said:


> As someone who's owned several models of Forces over the past 5 years I can tell you they've changed a lot.





Alkasquawlik said:


> The ignorance is big with this one..
> 
> I wasn't aware the Force was a "top dollar" binding haha, the Cartel is more expensive than it.
> And yes, there have been changes.


Genuine inquiry, what's changed other than toe strap? And for my sake lets go back to year one. I think I can name some stuff, but I'd rather just hear it from a Union supporter.


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## NoOtherOptions (Nov 28, 2011)

Yo OP if you don't want the Unions I'll buy em.  yo Union INHOUSE can you fix em if I buy em! ha.


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## East§ide (Mar 14, 2011)

NoOtherOptions said:


> Yo OP if you don't want the Unions I'll buy em.  yo Union INHOUSE can you fix em if I buy em! ha.


lol thats alright, i plan on sticking it out this season with them. im going to call Union INHOUSE later on today to finally go over the issues.
Next season when I get a new deck ill grab a revised set of the now IPO or 390 bosses and see how they compare.


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## Extremo (Nov 6, 2008)

Nivek said:


> Genuine inquiry, what's changed other than toe strap? And for my sake lets go back to year one. I think I can name some stuff, but I'd rather just hear it from a Union supporter.


Everything has been upgraded over the years except the heel loop and forward lean adjuster (which don't need to be). 

Redesigned the ankle strap adjustment mechanism
Redesigned the ankle and toe ratchets
Redesigned the ankle strap (softer and lower profile)
Added multiple toe strap positions to the baseplate
They increased the size of the foam dampening pads
Added a padded footbed
Added a padded highback

They've pretty much addressed each of the gripes people have had over the years, including the toe strap. Outside of Flux's FTM cap (which I don't think they use anymore), Union's split strap is as good as any other that I've ridden.


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## blunted_nose (Apr 26, 2012)

Extremo said:


> Everything has been upgraded over the years except the heel loop and forward lean adjuster (which don't need to be).
> 
> Redesigned the ankle strap adjustment mechanism
> Redesigned the ankle and toe ratchets
> ...


Ratchets and straps from my 2006 P1's are better then 2013 forces. Toe strap is designed in a weird shape, more boxy boot shapes don't fit that good. ratchets don't release until you kung fu whack them. And the P1's have airbags, better pressure distribution on the ankle strap and are 6 years older. Goes to show.... I have my friends forces right here, as well as the P1's. Forces just don't feel good at all.


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## Extremo (Nov 6, 2008)

blunted_nose said:


> Ratchets and straps from my 2006 P1's are better then 2013 forces. Toe strap is designed in a weird shape, more boxy boot shapes don't fit that good. ratchets don't release until you kung fu whack them. And the P1's have airbags, better pressure distribution on the ankle strap and are 6 years older. Goes to show.... I have my friends forces right here, as well as the P1's. Forces just don't feel good at all.


I agree, but the question was what have they changed over the years.


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## UNION INHOUSE (Nov 13, 2012)

blunted_nose said:


> Ratchets and straps from my 2006 P1's are better then 2013 forces. Toe strap is designed in a weird shape, more boxy boot shapes don't fit that good. ratchets don't release until you kung fu whack them. And the P1's have airbags, better pressure distribution on the ankle strap and are 6 years older. Goes to show.... I have my friends forces right here, as well as the P1's. Forces just don't feel good at all.




The P1's also retailed for $130 some odd dollars more than the Force. 

Sorry guys, don't have time for this today. I can list out many changes to the Force over the years. The only thing we haven't changed is the baseplate tooling. Are we going to do this with all the leading binding models on the market in the past 10 years?

Can somebody just start a new thread? This one is tired.


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## UNION INHOUSE (Nov 13, 2012)

East§ide said:


> lol thats alright, i plan on sticking it out this season with them. im going to call Union INHOUSE later on today to finally go over the issues.
> Next season when I get a new deck ill grab a revised set of the now IPO or 390 bosses and see how they compare.


didn't get that call today. It's beer thirty.


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## blunted_nose (Apr 26, 2012)

UNION INHOUSE said:


> The P1's also retailed for $130 some odd dollars more than the Force.
> 
> Sorry guys, don't have time for this today. I can list out many changes to the Force over the years. The only thing we haven't changed is the baseplate tooling. Are we going to do this with all the leading binding models on the market in the past 10 years?
> 
> Can somebody just start a new thread? This one is tired.


6 years ago... Cant defend superior bindings, sorry. Try harder next year, and i might consider union. I would start with toe straps that are forward only, nobody uses up top anymore. They provide better support and are way comfier. Next i would do is make the base less bulky, and straps thinner with more design towards anatomy, not piling up enough foam till they don't give any support unless you crank them tight as fuck. You want this tread ended? Showing you actually don't care about feedback. Way to go.


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## scottb7 (Nov 19, 2012)

i support eastside on this one, and i think it is great that we can voice concerns about product and the vendor can choose if they want to chime in or not. that is their call. my thanks goes to moderator for letting it go...

and i would give another shameless plug for ride contraband - no stock in the company - but come on...compared to my flows they are way more locked in, one rachet...like every binding i fit to boot once when i got them and never looked back.


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## Alkasquawlik (Jul 13, 2010)

blunted_nose said:


> 6 years ago... Cant defend superior bindings, sorry. Try harder next year, and i might consider union. I would start with toe straps that are forward only, nobody uses up top anymore. They provide better support and are way comfier. Next i would do is make the base less bulky, and straps thinner with more design towards anatomy, not piling up enough foam till they don't give any support unless you crank them tight as fuck. You want this tread ended? Showing you actually don't care about feedback. Way to go.


Lol at the troll. Come on man, you were asking to buy Union Forces just a couple days ago.


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## blunted_nose (Apr 26, 2012)

Alkasquawlik said:


> Lol at the troll. Come on man, you were asking to buy Union Forces just a couple days ago.


10 dollars? i don't think they are worth anything else. There is a difference from wanting a binding because I need one, and wanting a binding i would pay more for. I wouldn't pay premium for it, but id ride it for 10 bucks...


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## snowjab (Dec 22, 2010)

Union makes a great product I prefer flux but leaning towards some atlas if i find a good deal . Years ago I had an issue with some straps on my forces and i had to send pics of the issue and file a warranty claim then the same day this kid shows up to my office with new straps . Union hand delivered them. I guess its nice being in Seattle but still they didnt have to go.that far.


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## East§ide (Mar 14, 2011)

snowjab said:


> Union makes a great product I prefer flux but leaning towards some atlas if i find a good deal . Years ago I had an issue with some straps on my forces and i had to send pics of the issue and file a warranty claim then the same day this kid shows up to my office with new straps . Union hand delivered them. I guess its nice being in Seattle but still they didnt have to go.that far.


thats a cool story, definitely good customer service, but i do know that if i was to get parts, i was told id have to send my bindings from NJ to Seattle and back..thats at least 1, probably 2 weekends missed for me.

i didnt make this thread to bash Union but more to ask about some other Binding choices going forward. The more research I've done, the more options I've seen that might suit me better. In the meantime, I'd like to keep riding my forces and hoping that Ill get the issues straightened out.

And Union INHOUSE, sorry..i appreciate you keeping involved. Been very busy around here with the constant flooding and the hurricane damage.


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## alaric (Aug 28, 2007)

Huge props to UNION for sticking around and staying in touch even if the thread is old and tired.


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## Extremo (Nov 6, 2008)

blunted_nose said:


> 6 years ago... Cant defend superior bindings, sorry. Try harder next year, and i might consider union. I would start with toe straps that are forward only, nobody uses up top anymore. They provide better support and are way comfier. Next i would do is make the base less bulky, and straps thinner with more design towards anatomy, not piling up enough foam till they don't give any support unless you crank them tight as fuck. You want this tread ended? Showing you actually don't care about feedback. Way to go.


I guess you've never heard of the Atlas line.


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## blunted_nose (Apr 26, 2012)

Extremo said:


> I guess you've never heard of the Atlas line.


Alright, but you can get way better bindings for way less. Also since union is binding company, why would you pay 300 for something another company , that isnt binding oriented, makes better for less? 

Wrong, union is shit, they want this thread closed because they don't care about feedback. Hype is all they have and rich cunts that ride them because someone pro is payed to ride them, you really think travis rice wants to run union? Hmmm, wonder why he rode cartels before without a binding sponsor.

I dont care about a company that its sole purpose is to make a binding, which they cant even do properly and that doesn't give a shit about what people say about it. For fucks sake, even k2 bindings are better and they are originally a ski company?

For the price of atlas you can get switchbacks. Id rather have those.....


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## Extremo (Nov 6, 2008)

blunted_nose said:


> Alright, but you can get way better bindings for way less. Also since union is binding company, why would you pay 300 for something another company , that isnt binding oriented, makes better for less?
> 
> Wrong, union is shit, they want this thread closed because they don't care about feedback. Hype is all they have and rich cunts that ride them because someone pro is payed to ride them, you really think travis rice wants to run union? Hmmm, wonder why he rode cartels before without a binding sponsor.
> 
> ...


Switchback better than the Atlas? Now that's a joke. Cartels? I'd give you that, but at a $40 increase in cost all you're really getting is an upgrade in the toe strap. And like I said, you can add that to the Atlas at the same cost and have, IMO, a better binding.


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## blunted_nose (Apr 26, 2012)

Extremo said:


> Switchback better than the Atlas? Now that's a joke. Cartels? I'd give you that, but at a $40 increase in cost all you're really getting is an upgrade in the toe strap. And like I said, you can add that to the Atlas at the same cost and have, IMO, a better binding.


Its cute, how you defend union. But look at the big picture...... there are better choices.

Switchbacks are solid. Straps are super plush, ratchets aren't the best but still better then union, and toe strap is sick. Id say, the 300 dollars switchbacks compare to 25o dollar forces. But at the same value level as forces, cartels are a clear choice.


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## Extremo (Nov 6, 2008)

blunted_nose said:


> Its cute, how you defend union. But look at the big picture...... there are better choices.
> 
> Switchbacks are solid. Straps are super plush, ratchets aren't the best but still better then union, and toe strap is sick. Id say, the 300 dollars switchbacks compare to 25o dollar forces. But at the same value level as forces, cartels are a clear choice.


The switchback ankle straps blow. Ratchets aren't close to Unions. The toe cap is about as basic as you can find. And all for $300 when you can the the far superior Atlas for $60 less. What a joke. And then you're comparing the $199 Force to the $270 Cartel? This argument is a joke.


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## alaric (Aug 28, 2007)

blunted_nose said:


> Alright, but you can get way better bindings for way less. Also since union is binding company, why would you pay 300 for something another company , that isnt binding oriented, makes better for less?
> 
> Wrong, union is shit, they want this thread closed because they don't care about feedback. Hype is all they have and rich cunts that ride them because someone pro is payed to ride them, you really think travis rice wants to run union? Hmmm, wonder why he rode cartels before without a binding sponsor.
> 
> ...


Your opinion on products are rightfully yours. BUT, there's no need to call people cunts just because you don't like a product. Stop with the disrespect. There's no need for it. You need to take a chill pill.


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## Cr0_Reps_Smit (Jun 27, 2009)

yea, i cant say i'm a fan of unions but you sound like a dick.


----------



## goalieman24 (Aug 28, 2009)

blunted_nose said:


> Alright, but you can get way better bindings for way less. Also since union is binding company, why would you pay 300 for something another company , that isnt binding oriented, makes better for less?
> 
> Wrong, union is shit, they want this thread closed because they don't care about feedback. Hype is all they have and rich cunts that ride them because someone pro is payed to ride them, you really think travis rice wants to run union? Hmmm, wonder why he rode cartels before without a binding sponsor.
> 
> ...


You're hypocritical as shit.
You proceed to bash Union claiming that they are ridden by 'rich cunts'... yet when you try and provide a "suggestion" for a better option, everything you suggest is even more expensive. 
It's also worth mentioning your WTB ad for bindings. As already posted, you were asking for forces... but your price range takes away any credibility you have in this argument. Clearly you're not capable of buying the bindings under discussion... so your hate must just simply be based on envy, or the "I read this on the internet so it must be true" mentality.


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## blunted_nose (Apr 26, 2012)

Prices taken from my local shop. Source. 

Union Atlas - 319.99
Union Force - 269.99
Burton Cartel - 269.99

Overpriced bindings, that work, yeah they work, but not worth the money. How are switchback ratchets bad? They release smooth, union ones actually dont. Tried it before, they require force. Maybe that's where they got the name for the Force model. Ugly colorways too.

Hmm, sorry for coming of as a douchebag, i cant stand union. My suggested options my be higher but not by much, and what you gain over union products is returned in value. Anyways, sorry for this sack of shit my posts are. If i offended anyone, my apologies. I respect anyone who rides a plank on snow. Well, i just wanted to voice my opinion. Please, don't listen to me because im obviously retarded. Good night.


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## blunted_nose (Apr 26, 2012)

Cr0_Reps_Smit said:


> yea, i cant say i'm a fan of unions but you sound like a dick.


I'm sorry. Don't confuse internet trolling with my actual personalty.


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## Extremo (Nov 6, 2008)

blunted_nose said:


> Prices taken from my local shop. Source.
> 
> Union Atlas - 319.99
> Union Force - 269.99
> ...


Weird. My shops got:

Atlas $239
Force $199
Mission $200
Cartel $270


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## Alkasquawlik (Jul 13, 2010)

blunted_nose said:


> 10 dollars? i don't think they are worth anything else. There is a difference from wanting a binding because I need one, and wanting a binding i would pay more for. I wouldn't pay premium for it, but id ride it for 10 bucks...


You forgot the other zero, my man.


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## Alkasquawlik (Jul 13, 2010)

blunted_nose said:


> Prices taken from my local shop. Source.
> 
> Union Atlas - 319.99
> Union Force - 269.99
> ...



Blame your shit shop, not Union. They're jacking up the prices way above MSRP. Way to not use Google either, tard. Simple search shows the actual MSRP. 

The Burton prices are inflated as well.


----------



## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

Extremo said:


> Weird. My shops got:
> 
> Atlas $239
> Force $199
> ...



I see what ya did. Cartels at $270 are EST. Not a fair comparison. Compare the ReFlex and standard retail for the Cartel is $10 less than the Atlas. On top of that $270 is mark up. That sucks. Why is your shop charging more than retail for Cartels and not anything else?


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## blunted_nose (Apr 26, 2012)

Alkasquawlik said:


> Blame your shit shop, not Union. They're jacking up the prices way above MSRP. Way to not use Google either, tard. Simple search shows the actual MSRP.
> 
> The Burton prices are inflated as well.


But then your not supporting your local shreds. Lol, whole new argument. Anyways, we either pay that in Canada or get hit by duty and tax from USA.


----------



## Extremo (Nov 6, 2008)

Nivek said:


> I see what ya did. Cartels at $270 are EST. Not a fair comparison. Compare the ReFlex and standard retail for the Cartel is $10 less than the Atlas. On top of that $270 is mark up. That sucks. Why is your shop charging more than retail for Cartels and not anything else?


Probably because they're the only shop left withing a 40 mile radius. Their K2 stuff is significantly higher than MSRP too. 

Dogfunk shows $229 for Cartel with Reflex? I thought for sure it would be up in the Phantom price range. I haven't ridden the cartel since they introduced reflex, but as long as it's not full on crap, that's probably the best binding (relative to price) on the market, IMO.


----------



## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

Extremo said:


> Probably because they're the only shop left withing a 40 mile radius. Their K2 stuff is significantly higher than MSRP too.
> 
> Dogfunk shows $229 for Cartel with Reflex? I thought for sure it would be up in the Phantom price range. I haven't ridden the cartel since they introduced reflex, but as long as it's not full on crap, that's probably the best binding (relative to price) on the market, IMO.


This year I might actually agree. Its the best rendition of the Cartel I've been in. The softer highback puts it back into the freestyle dominator position where it belongs. I do really like the Formulas though.


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## blunted_nose (Apr 26, 2012)

Ahheeemmmm, 2006 P1's anyone? I love them.... Burton made the comfiest binding back then... 

One binding i would consider below par of union is Technine. Why are they still in business? And even then, their toe strap is better....
Because of all the "low riding" ******'s with oversize coats ?


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## bseracka (Nov 14, 2011)

blunted_nose said:


> Ahheeemmmm, 2006 P1's anyone? I love them.... Burton made the comfiest binding back then...
> 
> One binding i would consider below par of union is Technine. Why are they still in business? And even then, their toe strap is better....
> Because of all the "low riding" ******'s with oversize coats ?


You really are an angry little troll aren't you? :eusa_clap: I always thought Canadiens were supposed to be friendly and accepting of others.


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## Alkasquawlik (Jul 13, 2010)

blunted_nose said:


> Ahheeemmmm, 2006 P1's anyone? I love them.... Burton made the comfiest binding back then...
> 
> One binding i would consider below par of union is Technine. Why are they still in business? And even then, their toe strap is better....
> Because of all the "low riding" ******'s with oversize coats ?



Have you ever ridden Technines? Or are you basing it what you've read online. Serious question.


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## blunted_nose (Apr 26, 2012)

A mixture of seeing it in stores, playing with them in my hands and online reviews. Never rode one because they look like shit.


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## Alkasquawlik (Jul 13, 2010)

blunted_nose said:


> A mixture of seeing it in stores, playing with them in my hands and online reviews. Never rode one because they look like shit.


Haha then your opinion means jack shit.


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## snowklinger (Aug 30, 2011)

Alkasquawlik said:


> Haha then your opinion means jack shit.


welcome to snowboardingforum.com :welcome:


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## StimulisRK (Jul 5, 2012)

I just read through all of that haha :eusa_clap:

1. George at Union is THE MAN!! He's always helped me with any issues I've had over the years, and he helped hook me up for a school project I did on machining processes a few years back!
2. I've ridden every pair of forces between 2007 and 2012 and I'VE NEVER HAD TOE STRAP OR TOE RATCHET ISSUES. I honestly think it's gotta be certain types of boots or people's inability to properly adjust their straps.


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## blunted_nose (Apr 26, 2012)

Yes, my opinion is jack shit. Why are you guys trippying over what i say. WHY. 

Ride em if you like them, dont if you dont like them. easy.


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## phony_stark (Jul 2, 2011)

^^ Why are you posting on this thread again?


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## poutanen (Dec 22, 2011)

blunted_nose said:


> Anyways, we either pay that in Canada or get hit by duty and tax from USA.


Actually due to Burtons retailer agreements we can't buy Burton products from the states. But if we could we'd pay no duty (NAFTA) and only local taxes. What you might be talking about are brokerage fees, and that's something that drives me up the wall...

I've got a few good sources in Canada that offer prices similar to or as low as the lowest US prices once they all start marking down in the spring.

Paid $275 CDN for my C60 ESTs back in the day! :yahoo:


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## blunted_nose (Apr 26, 2012)

poutanen said:


> Actually due to Burtons retailer agreements we can't buy Burton products from the states. But if we could we'd pay no duty (NAFTA) and only local taxes. What you might be talking about are brokerage fees, and that's something that drives me up the wall...
> 
> I've got a few good sources in Canada that offer prices similar to or as low as the lowest US prices once they all start marking down in the spring.
> 
> Paid $275 CDN for my C60 ESTs back in the day! :yahoo:


Sick deal. Paid 80 bucks for brand new P1's 2006 model. right from kijiji. 

And yeah, that's what i meant, all fee's and products that America can ship like bataleon, which is priced lover then Canada price wise, the duty on the thing is like 100 bucks and up. Just because its made in Austria.


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## poutanen (Dec 22, 2011)

blunted_nose said:


> Sick deal. Paid 80 bucks for brand new P1's 2006 model. right from kijiji.


Yeah I keep looking for more C60s and C02s... There ARE still brand new ones kicking around. I just wish they'd start making them again. The diodes look to flimsey to be their stiffest binding now...  I know they are but come on. Bring the C60 back!


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## blunted_nose (Apr 26, 2012)

poutanen said:


> Yeah I keep looking for more C60s and C02s... There ARE still brand new ones kicking around. I just wish they'd start making them again. The diodes look to flimsey to be their stiffest binding now...  I know they are but come on. Bring the C60 back!


C60's were the shit. So comfy, yet so responsive. Wasn't just that tho. They were an icon.


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