# Jones Flagship vs Never Summer Raptor



## dbrownie19 (Feb 7, 2013)

Hi all,

I'm currently riding a '04 Nitro Shogun 161 and am in desperate need for an upgrade. I'm an advanced rider that's been riding since the mid-90s, but had been out only a few times in the last 4 years (not by choice) and I'm looking to get back into it in a bad way.

I live in New England so I spend the majority of my time ripping trees and moguls, but take a couple trips out west every year where I'm riding steeps, chutes and pow whenever I can. Occasionally I'll hit the park; pretty much never ride switch. I'm 6' 190lb with size 10.5-11 boots.

So I've been browsing around for a badass freeride board and the Jones Flagship 161 and Never Summer Raptor 159 seem to fit the bill. Can anyone tell me the biggest differences between the two? Does anyone have any recommendations for other boards I should check out? Would really appreciate any sort of advice..


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## linvillegorge (Jul 6, 2009)

I'm not sure you're looking at the right boards. For trees and moguls, I'd want something softer and easier to throw around. The boards you're looking at were designed with the intention of slaying big mountain lines. If you're looking at NS and Jones, I might push you more toward the Mountain Twin and SL.


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## huckfin (Dec 9, 2010)

for sure the flagship is not a board that is made to be thrown around and manhandled..


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## dbrownie19 (Feb 7, 2013)

How well will a board like the mountain twin or sl hold up in steeps and powder out west? Any other boards you think I should look into?


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## danm (Jan 16, 2010)

linvillegorge said:


> I'm not sure you're looking at the right boards. For trees and moguls, I'd want something softer and easier to throw around. The boards you're looking at were designed with the intention of slaying big mountain lines. If you're looking at NS and Jones, I might push you more toward the Mountain Twin and SL.


I have to disagree at least on the Raptor... I weigh 160-165 and on my 156 I actually seek out the tightest tree lines I can find because I can whip this thing around INSTANTANEOUSLY! I AM a pretty powerful rider at 5'5" and aint chubby, so that might have something to do with it.


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## linvillegorge (Jul 6, 2009)

They'll hold up just fine. I see plenty of SLs on the mountain here in CO. I personally ride a Proto which is pretty much just a blunted true twin SL.


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## suburbanlegend8 (Nov 14, 2012)

dbrownie19 said:


> How well will a board like the mountain twin or sl hold up in steeps and powder out west? Any other boards you think I should look into?


Mountain Twin is more of a freestyle board, would do okay in the powder but really not meant for steeps and big lines. Doesn't get onto an edge all that well and not as stable as some of the other boards you are looking at. I'd check out the NS Heritage, Lib Tech T. Rice, Landvik, or La Nina MC, Gnu Billy Goat, Arbor Coda, Yes Pick Your Line, Slash Straight, and the Salomon Man's Board


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## danm (Jan 16, 2010)

dbrownie19 said:


> How well will a board like the mountain twin or sl hold up in steeps and powder out west? Any other boards you think I should look into?


If you're an advanced rider, you could ride a 159 Raptor no problem, might have some boot overhang though. I haven't ridden a Flagship so have no recommendation on that.


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## Supra (Jan 11, 2012)

The flagship is super stiff aka not fun, and not damp at all. The profile is pretty flat too so don't expect a big rockered nose, it's just an early rise. Same concept, but way better construction and ride is the Rossi experience.

Other boards to look at : burton juice wagon, custom x, smokin kt22


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## WasatchMan (Aug 30, 2011)

K2 Raygun
Ride Berzerker
Lib Tech TRS
Ride Machete
Arbor Blacklist
Lib Tech La Nina
Jones Mountain Twin
Gnu Billy Goat
Never Summer SL
Capita BSOD
Capita TFA
Lib Tech Attack Banana

From what I've ridden - these boards will tear up the trees, slay it in the pow, and just be super all around fun - Fresh pow runs from 9am-noon after lunch you want to hit a few features in the park? No problem, these boards will kill it and keep you plenty happy. 

I would personally hit a local shop, your boot size _may_ be on the verge of a wide - personally with a 10.5 I would NOT get a wide though. Also get the correct size board or it will ruin everything. I think a ~157 @ 190lbs will cater to your freestyle/allmountain/powder/tree riding, all while being a fun board.

*edit:* 

Again - like everyone else said - I would highly advise against the Flagship or the Raptor. These are big mountain, hard charging boards - unless *you* are putting down first decents in AK then I would not not even consider these.


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## dbrownie19 (Feb 7, 2013)

Hi everyone,

Thanks for your input. As much as I wish I was putting down first descents in AK, I'll be doing the majority of my riding at resorts (trees & moguls in VT; back bowls, steeps & chutes out west), with some occasional side country/backcountry rips. But it sounds like the flagship or raptor may still be a bit overkill. 

I've been riding my Nitro Shogun 161 for about 8 years, so I can handle a long(er), stiff hard charging board pretty damn well. Many of you seem to be recommending getting a 157-159. What are the advantages to that?

Thanks again.


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## Supra (Jan 11, 2012)

Check out the k2 ultra dream


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## Aw3bb (Jan 27, 2013)

Arbor Coda or the jones mt twin. We r close in size and I was making similar comparisons a couple months ago, went with the coda, absolutely love it! I have no prob riding switch on it when I need or want to


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## tom1234 (Feb 3, 2013)

Supra said:


> Check out the k2 ultra dream


i concur!

only spent 2 or 3 days on it, but so far i'm stoked that i went for the K2


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## sidewall (Nov 6, 2009)

Supra said:


> The flagship is super stiff aka not fun, and not damp at all. The profile is pretty flat too so don't expect a big rockered nose, it's just an early rise. Same concept, but way better construction and ride is the Rossi experience.
> 
> Other boards to look at : burton juice wagon, custom x, smokin kt22


This. Flagship is a harsh ride.


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## Triple8Sol (Nov 24, 2008)

Don't let these guys scare you off from your original options. Sounds like you've been riding a long time and are used to a long, stiff, cambered board. Going to either of the options you listed will not be an issue, after you get used to the new board and alternative profiles after a day or two. Although the Raptor is regular width, you should be ok, might be pushing it a bit with a size 11 on the 159. Stiff yes, but plenty agile due to the width/sidecut. I had a great time bombing on mine, and had no issues with it in terms of maneuverability. Flagship is prob a great option also, more familiar length and camber in the middle, although it is damn stiff.


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## wernersl (Dec 28, 2011)

Triple8Sol said:


> Don't let these guys scare you off from your original options. Sounds like you've been riding a long time and are used to a long, stiff, cambered board. Going to either of the options you listed will not be an issue, after you get used to the new board and alternative profiles after a day or two. Although the Raptor is regular width, you should be ok, might be pushing it a bit with a size 11 on the 159. Stiff yes, but plenty agile due to the width/sidecut. I had a great time bombing on mine, and had no issues with it in terms of maneuverability. Flagship is prob a great option also, more familiar length and camber in the middle, although it is damn stiff.


Agree. I rock a 165 wide with size 11. Plenty maneuverable for me. And on those crappy days will slay the groomers.


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## danm (Jan 16, 2010)

wernersl said:


> Agree. I rock a 165 wide with size 11. Plenty maneuverable for me. And on those crappy days will slay the groomers.


Agree with your agree! OP would be fine on a 159... LOVE my Raptor (not endorsed btw)... :thumbsup:


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## Triple8Sol (Nov 24, 2008)

wernersl said:


> Agree. I rock a 165 wide with size 11. Plenty maneuverable for me. And on those crappy days will slay the groomers.


Some of us didn't learn/progress on noodley bananas. We had to learn how to manhandle some unforgiving planks lol.


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## wernersl (Dec 28, 2011)

Triple8Sol said:


> Some of us didn't learn/progress on noodley bananas. We had to learn how to manhandle some unforgiving planks lol.


Hey I started on an old school Burton Custom. No Noodle that's for sure.


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## WasatchMan (Aug 30, 2011)

dbrownie19 said:


> I've been riding my Nitro Shogun 161 for about 8 years, so I can handle a long(er), stiff hard charging board pretty damn well. Many of you seem to be recommending getting a 157-159. What are the advantages to that?
> 
> Thanks again.


I used to ride longer stiffer boards as well, recently switched to shorter boards - they are just so much more fun in the trees, more agile, more playful and versatile. You seem to love trees and moguls/banks. I find shorter boards more fun in tight chutes and steeps, they will still handle well especially the boards I listed before. Also be great in powder with their rockered tips, but very stable with camber under-foot.

Longer stiffer boards are such one trick ponies - they can get boring.

You have your Nitro 161 if you want to blast groomers so i'd start a quiver and pick up a shorter board.


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## dbrownie19 (Feb 7, 2013)

Thanks again for the comments. Headed up to Vermont this weekend and then out to Colorado next week, so I think I'm going to try to demo a couple difference boards before I pull the trigger. Cheers.


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## EatMyTracers (Sep 26, 2012)

I'm in this same position and am still unsure of what to get.


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## linvillegorge (Jul 6, 2009)

dbrownie19 said:


> Thanks again for the comments. Headed up to Vermont this weekend and then out to Colorado next week, so I think I'm going to try to demo a couple difference boards before I pull the trigger. Cheers.


There ya go. I think that's the right move.


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## EatMyTracers (Sep 26, 2012)

What would you guys recommend from your experience. I wish I could demo them like the op but sadly I can't


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

Triple8Sol said:


> Don't let these guys scare you off from your original options. Sounds like you've been riding a long time and are used to a long, stiff, cambered board. Going to either of the options you listed will not be an issue, after you get used to the new board and alternative profiles after a day or two. Although the Raptor is regular width, you should be ok, might be pushing it a bit with a size 11 on the 159. Stiff yes, but plenty agile due to the width/sidecut. I had a great time bombing on mine, and had no issues with it in terms of maneuverability. Flagship is prob a great option also, more familiar length and camber in the middle, although it is damn stiff.


Agree! 
My husband is riding a Raptor 164, loves it for being very agile, fun to carve AND great in pow. 
I'm on a Flagship 158 (I'm 123lbs). You'll find some of my impressions here girl-jones-flagship-good-idea guess if I'm pleased with it  
I actually tried it yesterday in dense trees. It's easy to maneuver. The Flagship is damp, yes. I landed a little jump out of pow on the flat track with my legs not bent enough to absorb. The shock-energy was transferred through all spines  but that's my fault. Bend your knees, ride low and you'll have a lot of fun. 



Triple8Sol said:


> Some of us didn't learn/progress on noodley bananas. We had to learn how to manhandle some unforgiving planks lol.


maybe that's the reason, why I don't get the point of the flagship being hard to ride; I had to learn an old Custom X  

I'd recommend, you give them both a try and judge by yourself, if they fit your expectations and riding style.


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## Weipim (Nov 20, 2012)

OP hope its no too late for me to chime in, i am the exact same spec as u, 6ft 189lbs and 10.5shoes

i have over 10boards including the 159 raptor. i cant say it is better than flagship since i never tried one, but it is amazing for trees. it is super agile, a lot less forgiving than other NS board due to longer camber on nose, set back is for ultra float and very very damp. sometimes it scares me cause i feel like the nose is pulling me to sherr it wants at a fast speed, but if you come from an old school camber board than u shouldnt have a problem

whoever says rap is only for big mountain pow lines either never rode raptor or needs to relearn his skillz


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## danm (Jan 16, 2010)

Weipim said:


> OP hope its no too late for me to chime in, i am the exact same spec as u, 6ft 189lbs and 10.5shoes
> 
> i have over 10boards including the 159 raptor. i cant say it is better than flagship since i never tried one, but it is amazing for trees. it is super agile, a lot less forgiving than other NS board due to longer camber on nose, set back is for ultra float and very very damp. sometimes it scares me cause i feel like the nose is pulling me to sherr it wants at a fast speed, but if you come from an old school camber board than u shouldnt have a problem
> 
> whoever says rap is only for big mountain pow lines either never rode raptor or needs to relearn his skillz


Agree, I think people get scared when they look at NS's board chart and see the Raptor (and Summit) on the far right... I think they get the notion that it's ONLY for gnarly steep AK terrain... well I'm sure it feels at home there but I love mine on ordinary double black tree, hike runs... actually REALLY love it in the trees. Be careful on steep technical runs though, the tail likes to really rocket through turns... :thumbsup:


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## linvillegorge (Jul 6, 2009)

It's not that it's the ONLY thing that it can do, but it IS what that board was designed to do.

I just see a lot of people wanting these burly boards when their stated riding preferences scream to get something else.

At the end of the day, ride what you want.


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## danm (Jan 16, 2010)

linvillegorge said:


> It's not that it's the ONLY thing that it can do, but it IS what that board was designed to do.
> 
> I just see a lot of people wanting these burly boards when their stated riding preferences scream to get something else.
> 
> At the end of the day, ride what you want.


I actually totally agree with that


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## wernersl (Dec 28, 2011)

It's my all mountain stick... Love it. Especially if you're a groomer whore.


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## dbrownie19 (Feb 7, 2013)

Hi guys-- I ended up pulling the trigger on a Raptor 159 over the weekend. Was still pretty torn, but got a deal too good to pass up.

Took it out at Smuggs, VT on Saturday. First impressions, the thing absolutely bombs. I couldn't believe how fast it went and how controlled I felt on it at high speeds. It also had some nice pop for straight airs and I had no problem whipping it around through the trees and moguls. And from the few fresh turns I got, it felt unbelievable. 

To be fair, I'm sure any board I got would have felt great coming from an '04 Nitro Shogun 161, but I'm stoked on it so far. I'm headed out to Colorado on Thursday, so I'm itching to test it out on some bigger mountains.

The next question for me, is what bindings do I get for it? ..Planning on holding out a bit for some end of the year deals...


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## seriouscat (Jan 23, 2012)

I use diodes on mine.


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## wernersl (Dec 28, 2011)

I've been tempted to try diodes on mine, but can't spend the cash. Good alternative... Rome arsenals. Team up great on the Raptor. Good stiff binding and great customer support.


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## Weipim (Nov 20, 2012)

agree on stiff bindings

i user this years cartel but felt too soft 

also used now ipo although still kinda soft but kingpin makes up nicely

will try my c60 sometimes


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## JDMITRB18CR (Mar 16, 2012)

try getting mid-stiff bindings.. i use the 2012 contact pro's on my cobra and it feels perfect.. but i'm selling the cobra to upgrade to the Raptor, so i'll let you know how that feels whenever that happens :yahoo:




dbrownie19 said:


> Hi guys-- I ended up pulling the trigger on a Raptor 159 over the weekend. Was still pretty torn, but got a deal too good to pass up.
> 
> Took it out at Smuggs, VT on Saturday. First impressions, the thing absolutely bombs. I couldn't believe how fast it went and how controlled I felt on it at high speeds. It also had some nice pop for straight airs and I had no problem whipping it around through the trees and moguls. And from the few fresh turns I got, it felt unbelievable.
> 
> ...


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## danm (Jan 16, 2010)

dbrownie19 said:


> Hi guys-- I ended up pulling the trigger on a Raptor 159 over the weekend. Was still pretty torn, but got a deal too good to pass up.
> 
> Took it out at Smuggs, VT on Saturday. First impressions, the thing absolutely bombs. I couldn't believe how fast it went and how controlled I felt on it at high speeds. It also had some nice pop for straight airs and I had no problem whipping it around through the trees and moguls. And from the few fresh turns I got, it felt unbelievable.
> 
> ...


SWEET, LOVE THIS BOARD!!! I have Flow NXT-FSE's on mine and it's a good combo... whatever brand you get make sure it's the stiffest or near to it in that particular line.


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