# ++ binding angles?



## SushiLover (Sep 17, 2020)

front +24 or 27
back +12

having posi in the back leg allows me to bend my back knee towards the center of the board to give me that boost between each turn


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## DRexNL (Jan 2, 2022)

SushiLover said:


> front +24 or 27
> back +12
> 
> having posi in the back leg allows me to bend my back knee towards the center of the board to give me that boost between each turn


I run +27+15 currently myself. 

Those guys on toyfilms have angles that almost seem like they're mono skiing or alpine boarding (i.e. +36+24) but it looks like it does them fine.


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## El Cholo Rojo (3 mo ago)

DRexNL said:


> seen the clips on YouTube from toyfilms


Pretty sneaky for views jaja


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## El Cholo Rojo (3 mo ago)

DRexNL said:


> (i.e. +36+24) but it looks like it does them fine.


Careful, this is all slippery slope into hard booting.


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## SushiLover (Sep 17, 2020)

DRexNL said:


> I run +27+15 currently myself.
> 
> Those guys on toyfilms have angles that almost seem like they're mono skiing or alpine boarding (i.e. +36+24) but it looks like it does them fine.


that's pretty damn aggressive, I don't know if the anatomy of my hips would allow me to ride with those angles


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## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

Depending on the setup I ride anything from 18/0 to 27/+9. Rarely go to that far on the +\+ side as I don’t feel it’s as versatile a stance as even dropping back 3 degrees to 23/+6. Anything past +6 on the back foot feels too forward for much other styles of riding beyond laying it over. Pow is often then dropped again to 21/+3 or back to the 18/0 which is really my default stance. Then drop it back to 12/-6 if I’m riding any twins or park.


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## DRexNL (Jan 2, 2022)

El Cholo Rojo said:


> Pretty sneaky for views jaja


Nah.. I just wanted to reference where I was going with this post since they list their angles and equipment they use. They also all seem to be riding wide boards.


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## GregT943 (Apr 1, 2019)

+21/+3 feels good for me on my Weston Backwoods. I also really like 18/0 for directional wide volume shifted boards (I run this on my Orca and Dancehaul). Extreme positive angles just don't feel right to me. I run +15, -9 on my daily driver Capita Mercury.


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## eleveneightnate (4 mo ago)

+18/+3 or +18/0 for pow/super directional decks. Much more than that on the backfoot and you have to wear hardboots, motorcycle helmets, and spandex.


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## WigMar (Mar 17, 2019)

Specifically for carving, I go pretty extreme with my angles sometimes. It's directly related to how wide my board is. On a short fat, I can get the clearance I need with more relaxed angles like 24/6. On more traditional skinnier carving boards, I need to run angles like 48/35. Honestly, if you keep a similar splay between your feet, the only thing that really changes is how open your shoulders become. Increasing the splay is where things get weird for me. 

Carving a skinny board with aggressive ++ angles feels amazing to me. I'm fully laying out on any toe or heel turn I feel like with hardly any effort. All the mono ski and hard boot comments are limiting to progression in my opinion. I know I had to get over those misconceptions to grow as a carver.


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## Board Doctor (Feb 1, 2018)

+18/+12


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## toaster (Jun 12, 2021)

+30/+12 here, with a 21.5" stance width on both my split and solid. This feels most intuitive to me. I've played around around A LOT with binding angles over the past few years.


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## BoardieK (Dec 21, 2015)

30/21 for predominantly carving on a 255 waist board last season.


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## TheHolyMountain (10 mo ago)

+15/+5-9, I only do it that way because that's how I skateboarded, started doing and never really changed. This last year, for the first time in 20 years, I started edging back to more like +15/0 - 5ish, in an effort to learn to ride switch.


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## NoirX252 (Aug 1, 2009)

The lowest I can get away with for my foot size while having enough clearance to carve. 

Binding angles really don't matter much. I hardly notice a difference going from 50/45 (hardboots) and my softboot setup at 12/3.

I definitely do notice the loss in leverage if I just artificially ramp up the binding angles regardless of what kind of boots I'm wearing.


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## JDA (Feb 10, 2016)

+27, +15 is what I run on my most directional boards (Dart, Skipjack, Simple Pleasures).

Less directional but still setback I run around +18, -3 (Dancehaul, Manifest, Archetype).

Dancehaul has replaced my park board but I used to run +12,-12 on that.


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## FriendlyDropBear (6 mo ago)

I like a healthy amount of front foot >21 +

But my back foot is a little funny.
I find that (with flat bindings) if I give the rear foot much over +6 I feel like my ankle begins to bind up.
It tends to feel most comfortable between +3 & -3

Heel lift (and to a lesser extent cant) unlocks more aggressive forwards rear foot angles.... kinda like a runners block?


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## Etienne (Apr 2, 2021)

I tried hard last season and anything past +6 and I feel like I can't ride. I mean some of my heelside look better, but any kind bump, sketchy transition etc. I'm totally out. Plus it hurts my knee so bad, I must be having super bad positionning. Funny because I started with ++, clanging my back knee to the front one, then spent a decade correcting it to be more squared, hips aligned, power squat stance… and now I can't ride ++ anymore. I know I should just do that with ++ too, but I just seem not to be able to 🤷‍♂️

The idea of heel lift sound pretty appealing though, like a heel gas pedal.


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## 16gkid (Dec 5, 2012)

WigMar said:


> Specifically for carving, I go pretty extreme with my angles sometimes. It's directly related to how wide my board is. On a short fat, I can get the clearance I need with more relaxed angles like 24/6. On more traditional skinnier carving boards, I need to run angles like 48/35. Honestly, if you keep a similar splay between your feet, the only thing that really changes is how open your shoulders become. Increasing the splay is where things get weird for me.
> 
> Carving a skinny board with aggressive ++ angles feels amazing to me. I'm fully laying out on any toe or heel turn I feel like with hardly any effort. All the mono ski and hard boot comments are limiting to progression in my opinion. I know I had to get over those misconceptions to grow as a carver.


Welp, we found the monoskier


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## Apex (Sep 23, 2021)

+21/+9 if only laying it over on groomers.
+21/+3 for everything else.


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## Aracan (Nov 24, 2017)

On my wider carving board I run 58/37, on the narrower one (which is still rather wide for a carving stick) 62/41.


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## FriendlyDropBear (6 mo ago)

Aracan said:


> On my wider carving board I run 58/37, on the narrower one (which is still rather wide for a carving stick) 62/41.


How wide is the narrow carving board? Narrowest I've got is 23cm... which falls in that strange middleground between an alpine carver and a regular all-mountain softboot board (otherwise occupied by the likes of swoard and pure board)
At the moment I have it set up with pureboarding angles which are closer to softboot freeride angles but haven't ridden it yet! I only got bail bindings and 'hardboots' after the season was over here in Aus.


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## Craig64 (Jul 16, 2015)

Decades ago started like most riding duck with my stance but gradually moved through the years to a more forward stance. Was riding with +18/0 a few years ago (as seen below) as it's much easier bringing rear weight forward when charging hard and engaging front contact edges.










For the last 2 years or so, have now been running much more positive in the rear +18/+6 which I find joy far more with how I like to ride (as seen below). Never really been much of a "Buckhouse" park/freestyle guru as I've found with older age it develops a greater desire for hard charging AM/Freeride/Powder terrain and riding conditions.


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## Aracan (Nov 24, 2017)

FriendlyDropBear said:


> How wide is the narrow carving board?


I just checked, turns out they are both 24  - a rather new Contra and an old PB Bastard (the current ones are slightly narrower, I believe). I find the wide PB splay serves me very well, although it looks very old-school (check the angles in old Burton catalogues from the early 90s).


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## RallySoob (11 mo ago)

+/+ stances remind me of the 90's when people thought 'downhill' boards were cool. I dont know how you guys do it... Seems like it would be so hard to carve right and throw the board around like you should. to ecah their own though. I'de love to see an explainer vid on this method


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## FriendlyDropBear (6 mo ago)

RallySoob said:


> +/+ stances remind me of the 90's when people thought 'downhill' boards were cool. I dont know how you guys do it... Seems like it would be so hard to carve right and throw the board around like you should. to ecah their own though. I'de love to see an explainer vid on this method



"Downhill" boards are cool.... The point is that it facilitates an entirely different style of riding. 
Pretty much everyone who rides +/+ would tell you they're trying NOT to throw the board around sideways and that that's something you should NOT be doing. 

What you should be doing throwing yourself around so that your body weight influences the board! 

I'm willing to bet you ride with a fair bit of counter rotation and spend more time with your edges slipping than locked in? 🤔


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## RallySoob (11 mo ago)

ya definitely. im not locked into a hard carve unless im bombing run but still my ride style incorporates a whole lot of less than full force carving. i need to try it before i have an opinion really but from the looks of it… seems so foreign to what i understand snow boarding to be. the way the body moves in your carves is a trip. closed hips vs open hips . looks like skiing almost . like olympic snowboard slalom…looks like a slight hip cantered ski stance. open va closed. after thinkn about it i could prob try it on my setup just see what its like for few runs im curious


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## Etienne (Apr 2, 2021)

What I have a very hard time with when ++ is the way you squat. Dycj is regular (power) squat, where ++ is a split squat, wich is another common posture in many sports btw. 

Helped me a bit when I realized that, that I had one foot forward, one foot backward, not "same but sideways". I'm still super bad at it... 

Envoyé de mon H8324 en utilisant Tapatalk


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## buller_scott (Jun 10, 2018)

Nivek said:


> back to the 18/0 which is really my default stance.


This past season, that's what i settled on too, as a daily non-carving stance. Interesting how the 18 degree splay seems to work for a lot of people. 



DRexNL said:


> They also all seem to be riding wide boards.


They do have some wide decks, such as the WRX Mark W, but check the stats on many of the hammerhead decks - they're often pretty modest waist widths, around 25.4-25.6 at most. 



GregT943 said:


> +21/+3 feels good for me on my Weston Backwoods. I also really like 18/0 for directional wide volume shifted boards (I run this on my Orca and Dancehaul).


Birds of a feather - +21 +3 for carving, +18 0 for daily, for me. 



Craig64 said:


> Decades ago started like most riding duck with my stance but gradually moved through the years to a more forward stance. Was riding with +18/0 a few years ago (as seen below) as it's much easier bringing rear weight forward when charging hard and engaging front contact edges.


I am starting to wonder if this is an age thing now lol. I am guessing everyone in here who has 18/0 angles (or more positive), is older than 35. Or rather, not as young as 35. Next season I can actually see myself going even more + +. Maybe something like +27 +9


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## Craig64 (Jul 16, 2015)

buller_scott said:


> This past season, that's what i settled on too, as a daily non-carving stance. Interesting how the 18 degree splay seems to work for a lot of people.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I think you're onto something. 👍


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## buller_scott (Jun 10, 2018)

RallySoob said:


> +/+ stances remind me of the 90's when people thought 'downhill' boards were cool. I dont know how you guys do it... Seems like it would be so hard to carve right and throw the board around like you should. to ecah their own though. I'de love to see an explainer vid on this method


There are camps that say that your snowboard stance should mimic how you do squats/lifts at the gym, and then there are the camps like in Japan who absolutely SLAY carves, all at HIGH + + angles. 

I get that Ryan Knapton exists, sure.. but personally I cannot reconcile a park stance with superior one-forward-direction carving. I personally find + + WAY better for compression turning, is it? (The opposite of flexion, if I recall correctly from my snowboard camp + CASI training - so rather than extend up to unweight, you're sucking your knees into your chest when going to change edges, thus unweighting mid-turn). 

Balancing weight on front foot + being able to dip rear leg to facilitate this, just works for me. Being able to brace forward and really dip that rear knee as you crrrrrank that carve's radius and tighten it up, is a thing of beauty IMO. 

Give it a bash one day, I say!


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## Craig64 (Jul 16, 2015)

buller_scott said:


> There are camps that say that your snowboard stance should mimic how you do squats/lifts at the gym, and then there are the camps like in Japan who absolutely SLAY carves, all at HIGH + + angles.
> 
> I get that Ryan Knapton exists, sure.. but personally I cannot reconcile a park stance with superior one-forward-direction carving. I personally find + + WAY better for compression turning, is it? (The opposite of flexion, if I recall correctly from my snowboard camp + CASI training - so rather than extend up to unweight, you're sucking your knees into your chest when going to change edges, thus unweighting mid-turn).
> 
> ...


RK is at a switch carving level hardly any of us would ever get close to reaching. The key word her is "Switch".

I'm with you on the rest. I feel ++ as you get older and ride in a more specific aggressive directional style suited to this stance is a far easier.


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## buller_scott (Jun 10, 2018)

Craig64 said:


> RK is at a switch carving level hardly any of us would ever get close to reaching. The key word her is "*Switch*".
> 
> I'm with you on the rest. I feel ++ as you get older and ride in a more specific aggressive directional style suited to this stance is a far easier.


He has a skill set that is admirable, no doubt. I wonder how much longer he is going to rock 32CM waist widths... He is legit, but so are SO many carvers from the other side of the world (Igucchan, Sendai Extreme, etc) who have inspired me much more in the last couple of years, than RK. 

In fact, Sendai Extreme put a thought in my head, aboutair awareness training locally, that i am starting to think might have to be an annual thing. 

Won't say what just yet, need to suss it out before group-suggesting it.

Love you guys!!!


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## USMCCAPTAIN (Feb 8, 2019)

I have a Knapton Twin 160 with a 31cm Waist
Now O-Drive Bindings (Duck +15/-15)
Burton Driver X Boots


If you have bigger feet you can control a bigger board.


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## WigMar (Mar 17, 2019)

I just had an interesting experience riding with a new crew. I was the only ++ rider. Other than that, there were three other boarders riding symmetrical duck stances and a telemarker. We were freeriding powder stashes in the trees all day. After a run or two, I heard the younger riders in the crew talking about how I was surfing effortlessly between the trees while they were having to hop and twist their back feet around. A lot of that comes down to technique, but I said it makes sense to ride a directional board with a directional stance in the powder, and they all wanted to try it. They kept calling it "the powder stance." 

After we found a screwdriver and got everyone dialed in between 0/21 and 6/24, we hit a few more laps. Everyone was blown away- they were riding better with less effort. They all kept commenting on how long it had taken them to try something so simple as the powder stance. One rider wanted to go more extreme with his angles right away, while another wanted to try a directional duck stance at -3/18 or so, and the third rider was stoked with 0/21. We didn't really get into switch riding much cause we were raging through the trees.

I was stoked they tried the powder stance instead of making fun of me all day. They'd asked why I ride that way at the start of the day when we were strapping in. I was waiting for the taunting to begin, but I guess it's hard to make fun of someone who's crushing it. The telemarker remarked on everyone's fluidity and agility increasing throughout the afternoon. Time will tell where their freeriding angles will end up. They were talking about leaving the park boards duck but rocking the powder stance on the powder boards.


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## RallySoob (11 mo ago)

I tried the ++ this last weekend for 2 long runs and I just can't do it. But I did try... I did +15 in front and +9 in the back. I fell on my ars trying to ride fakey it was a mess. I did ok just normal carving but it felt really weird

I guess after 25yrs of doing +/- I am stuck in my habits. 

Im glad you had a better experience than me though


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## t21 (Dec 29, 2010)

I just switch last weekend from 24/-3 to 24/3 and find it more easier for toeside turns while carving. Its not much of posi angles but turning on bumps with this angles i'm still adjusting, it's doable but learning as i ride since i've been on duck stance for several years. It is also easier on my back knee since i'm older now with some issues on them.


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## Snowdaddy (Feb 2, 2018)

First season I started out with something like +18/-6. Second season I kept switching it around from double positive to the old stance. Then it was slight duck in crowded resorts because it's easier to counter rotate when it gets messy... but on boards like the Tracer or Pencil riding duck just isn't really a thing for me. Last season I started riding +18/-6 or -9... who knows... just because my daughter started riding and I started riding switch just to have something to pass the time with while having around with her.

As the season progressed I realized that +18/+3 is the most duck I can stand. 21/3 is a good allround stance for me, but 27/9 or 27/6 is nice on some boards.

But there's no right or wrong with stance angles.


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