# CO, MT, WY, CA... where to go?



## linvillegorge

If you're going to come to CO, unless you're seeking out the whole resort experience, I'd go somewhere other than the main I-70 resorts. El Nino years are a fickle bitch for us so it's hard to say what could be good and what might now. The San Juans are my favorite area of the state, but they tend to suck during El Nino years. Knowing it's going to be an El Nino year, I'd honestly probably look elsewhere. Other areas tend to be more reliable. I'd probably look toward Tahoe.


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## mojo maestro

Aspen..........


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## neni

mojo maestro said:


> Aspen..........


Be a bit patient with me... (I'm an Euro, I've no concept of places/resorts that for you may be common knowledge). Aspen because: ?

LG, thanks for the El Nino hint. Gonna keep that in mind. The plan is to really wait and fly to wherever the snow _is_ good.


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## linvillegorge

mojo maestro said:


> Aspen..........


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## linvillegorge

neni said:


> Be a bit patient with me... (I'm an Euro, I've no concept of places/resorts that for you may be common knowledge). Aspen because: ?


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## Argo

Big sky or Jackson Hole with a side country guide. 

Big sky is number 1 on my favorites list currently and fairly easy to get to through Bozeman.


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## linvillegorge

If they're getting snow, Crested Butte would probably be my CO pick. But, Tahoe is probably gonna get dumped on. Definitely looking at lining up a trip out there this coming season myself.


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## Argo

Big sky Montana is 45 min south of Bozeman, they have great steep alpine terrain that is right off the cable car/lifts and hikeable while being in bounds. 

Jackson Wyoming - has amazing side country terrain but I would not do it without someone that knows the area WELL. Also good steep terrain off their tram in bounds. 

San juans in Colorado - 
Silverton has a small single lift and heli that's relatively inexpensive with awesome terrain.

Telluride also has great terrain off the lifts or hike to. 

Given the places you have been and go to, these are the best options IMHO for you guys. If you make it to the I70 corridor of Colorado, you can stay in my spare room. We live in Vail at the base of the mountain, I love Vail and there is some great side country that we could show you. it and most everything around here is not the kind of steep your used to. The avalanche danger is high with the winter pack usually tho and the snow is to light to stick to the stuff you would be used to seeing. You max out at around 50 degree slopes holding good safe-ish snow here and you don't get alot of resorts with that steep of terrain that is available.


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## Argo

I have spent numerous days at all resorts listed in this thread so far, except chugach.... I definitely stand by my picks.


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## BoardChitless

linvillegorge said:


> If you're going to come to CO, unless you're seeking out the whole resort experience, I'd go somewhere other than the main I-70 resorts. El Nino years are a fickle bitch for us so it's hard to say what could be good and what might now. The San Juans are my favorite area of the state, but they tend to suck during El Nino years. Knowing it's going to be an El Nino year, I'd honestly probably look elsewhere. Other areas tend to be more reliable. I'd probably look toward Tahoe.


Spot on... great advice! Even though it's the weather, this is a pretty damn fair assessment for climate during El Nino seasons, but who can predict the weather.

The weather is the weather... but, Linvillegorge gives a fair idea of what to expect or NOT expect. Then again, maybe it's a solid season next year... who knows!!! 

If you do go to CO - Aspen is awesome, so is Vail, but I think A.Basin has some legit terrain with not as big of crowds! Although my favorite terrain & snow is Steamboat. Their glades on the backside are a wilderness... I could shred it a 100days no problem, and never be bored.

Neni, from what I saw, I really don't think any trip will compare to yours this past season in Alaska unless you travel the Powder Highway...


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## linvillegorge

Neni had a great trip to AK no doubt, but another trip to AK would certainly top it. I was up there right after she was and the conditions were largely what I would call dogshit. She got a lot better conditions than I did as she did several heli days while I was just squeezing in a couple of days at Alyeska as I could fit them into my work schedule, but overall, it was about the worst AK season that anyone up there could remember. I definitely gotta get back up there soon to redeem that one.


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## neni

Thanks Argo :thumbsup: very appreciated. Your picks sound great. The snowpack you describe sounds pretty similar to what we have at home; maybe our snow is a tad heavier but by no means sticky - avy danger is a constant companion.

Steep is not absolutely necessary (there'll be nice steeps in AK). I'd also enjoy to ride in mellower terrain if there's deep fluffy stuff as compensation. Or treeriding is something I'd be very interested in as we don't ride that here.


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## neni

linvillegorge said:


> Neni had a great trip to AK no doubt, but another trip to AK would certainly top it. I was up there right after she was and the conditions were largely what I would call dogshit. She got a lot better conditions than I did as she did several heli days while I was just squeezing in a couple of days at Alyeska as I could fit them into my work schedule, but overall, it was about the worst AK season that anyone up there could remember. I definitely gotta get back up there soon to redeem that one.


Haha! We had pretty good conditions at the beginning of the trip while hiking but after 20days continuous bluebird (in.the.Chugachs!) uhm... I prefer to call these conditions "challenging", but dogshit fits well . You're absolutely right, in terms of snow conditions, it only can get better. I'd swap the 5 fly days we had in challenging snow for a crap week with lots of down days due to storms but with 1 day fresh pow


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## mojo maestro

neni said:


> Aspen because: ?


4 mountains, awesome apres, not on the I-70 corrider and I'm guessing you can afford it. Colorado btw.........


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## chomps1211

Argo said:


> Big sky Montana is 45 min south of Bozeman, they have great steep alpine terrain that is right off the cable car/lifts and hikeable while being in bounds.


Argo, I assume you drove to Big Sky. Since it gets such good reviews and is a sister resort to Boyne here in MI. It's been on my "gotta go there" list. I have looked into it some and one thing neni might want to check closely is flights and connections to n from. 

Ea. time I looked into flights from Detroit, there have been NO direct flights into Bozeman. The absolute best I could find were a very few one stop over flights, turning what should be at most a 3 hour flight into 4-5+! 6-8, even some 10 hour or more trips were the norm with multiple stops n layovers. At least going west. :dunno:

Granted, it could be a much different situation flying in from the WC or Alaska, but I thought I'd mention it since since it could complicate last minute scheduling if the same holds true. 

This site has a few pretty good overall reviews and resort info of a few of the places already mentioned:

"Rip The World"

Hope u find it helpful! :thumbsup:


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## Argo

Overall Vail has amazing cruising terrain and typically great snow around that time frame. You would have a personal guide or multiple guides in the area too, given we aren't away for a competition. 

I would just wait for snow conditions and get a regional flight to the best snow.

The option of south central British Columbia is amazing too. Terrain is long and steep plus typically great snow that time of year


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## mojo maestro

argo said:


> i would just wait for snow conditions and get a regional flight to the best snow.


+1.........


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## Argo

When you decide, post up... I'll comment on places to stay that are more convenient to lifts. Most places have a slight commute to the mountain base but do have places to stay that are at the base but not always on the sites to reserve lodging


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## neni

Yea, I plan to only book an international flight to Denver or Seattle (as this is the connection to Anchorage) well in advance, but the other destination last minute-ish.

Thanks chomps for that hint. Exactly for such reasons I would like to have my list of options prepared in advance, not to book early, but to check for such potential problems and not being surprised by them if selecting that destination last minute cos it has great snow.


Argo, would be a blast to meet. The SO would certainly love to ride with riders like you guys.


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## Irahi

At the risk of violating the Washington tourism code of conduct and this might be crazy, but if you're already in Seattle, maybe ride some of those mountains that are an hour or so away?


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## linvillegorge

Irahi said:


> At the risk of violating the Washington tourism code of conduct and this might be crazy, but if you're already in Seattle, maybe ride some of those mountains that are an hour or so away?


This is also a very viable option.


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## neni

Irahi said:


> At the risk of violating the Washington tourism code of conduct and this might be crazy, but if you're already in Seattle, maybe ride some of those mountains that are an hour or so away?


No particular reason other than that I _read_ that the states I had listed have lighter snow (way of thinking was: sticky heavy snow in AK, and look for fluff elsewhere) and having friends in Vancouver complaning about the lack of snow lately. But I'll add recommendations in that area as well. I just rather take another short flight for a _great_ place and _great_ conditions than stay in the area just to avoid another flight.


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## Irahi

Snow density just depends on the day. We get lots of rapid temperature fluctuations in WA during the winter, which is part of what gives us such crazy snowfall and such variable snow. Storm days can get straight up retard deep though, just keep an eye on the telemetry.


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## Argo

Seattle to Bozeman is a direct flight On Alaska airlines @ $290 round trip during that time frame....


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## chomps1211

Argo said:


> Seattle to Bozeman is a direct flight On Alaska airlines @ $290 round trip during that time frame....


...._Figures!!!_ :RantExplode: ...about half the price flying from Detroit too! :blink:


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## linvillegorge

I imagine flying out of Detroit is outrageous, but flying in is probably dirt cheap. You know, with everyone trying to get the hell out of there and all. :laugh:


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## chomps1211

linvillegorge said:


> I imagine flying out of Detroit is outrageous, but flying in is probably dirt cheap. You know, with everyone trying to get the hell out of there and all. :laugh:


Lol! Touché!! :laugh: :eusa_clap:


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## ridinbend

Won't Whistler/Blackcomb be a solid option for El Nino? Lake Tahoe loves it that's for sure.

https://www.facebook.com/mtbachelorfanpage/posts/416607538394476

This was just my research on Bachy and El Nino, but a good piece of mapping.


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## linvillegorge

Temperature is rarely an issue for us here in CO, it's just whether or not we get the moisture with the right flow.


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## killclimbz

El Nino typically favors Cali, southern Colorado, and areas along thay southern geographic region. Predictions are already out that Montana and probably Jackson are not going to have very good seasons. Washington could be rough too 

Neni, I would be happy to to take you around Bert and maybe some other spots along the Colorado front range. Not sure if it will be very good. Typically durinh El Nino years the bookends are the best with a long dry spell in the middle. If you gamble look at mid to late March. 

Also, you go Colorado way, you might want to come out for Silverton splitfest. First full weekend of April. The backcountry around there is great and you can get as rowdy or mellow as you like. I don't know the area very well but got in pretty deep this year. My eyes are open to what is available there and it is amazing. 

Overall though, Tahoe is probably the best bet. Last El Nino like this it started snowing in February there and did not stop until June. All sorts of records set for snowfall that year. 

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


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## neni

Thanks Killc! Would be great to hike together. Silverton sounds interesting (bit far away...?). What exactly is this event? Meet n hike together or more of a demo event?
Denver, Bozeman and Tahoe are all under 2hrs by direct flight from Seattle with Alaska Air. Perfect selection. So far so good. Now I gonna have to monitor that El Nino thing (sounds still a bit like tossing a coin here Latest WMO ENSO Update) and have a lot to look up which will shorten the time over summer. Tho I'm now very intrigued to visit CO


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## linvillegorge

neni said:


> Thanks Killc! Would be great to hike together. Silverton sounds interesting (bit far away...?). What exactly is this event? Meet n hike together or more of a demo event?
> 
> *Detroit*, Bozeman and Tahoe are all under 2hrs by direct flight from Seattle with Alaska Air. Perfect selection. So far so good. Now I gonna have to monitor that El Nino thing (sounds still a bit like tossing a coin here Latest WMO ENSO Update) and have a lot to look up which will shorten the time over summer. Tho I'm now very intrigued to visit CO


Don't go to Detroit. No matter what, don't go to Detroit. Well, that is unless you want to be nowhere near any decent snowboarding and you'd like to see the closest thing to a 3rd world country that America has to offer. In that case, then by all means go to Detroit.


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## killclimbz

So the events for the splitfest are in Silverton. Usually opening day is held at the Venture snowboard factory with beer served. Then nights two and three there is food and beer covered by the $60 fee for the fest, plus you get a raffle ticket (or three I forget). Lots of manufacturers are there demoing gear. Last year, Furberg, Venture, Voile, Spark, Weston, Phantom, and a few others were doing free demos. Lots of splitboard.com types end up there. I met the legendary Tex. Jason and John run the thing and both know the backcountry really well and try there best to help point people new to the area to good tours. Zach and Forrest, a couple of partners of mine really know the area very well too. 

There are also speakers from AAIRE, CAIC, and Silverton Avalanche school. I was pleasantly surprised to see Tom Murphy from AAIRE give an excellent speech about how to make sound decisions. All in all, this past year, we had some of the best in business of avalanche safety and education at the event. Plus the CAIC forecaster for the region gave a great overview of the snow pack history and what we were currently dealing with. 

Silverton is something like a six and a half hour drive from Denver. It is a little po dunk wild west type of town. Only the main street is paved. It has a few good spots to eat and the Montanya rum bar is the place to go outside of Splitfest events. If you start leaning that way, we can work on timing, rides, and such. If it works out, I think I am going to try to go down for the week. Definitely for the four days of the fest.


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## neni

linvillegorge said:


> Don't go to Detroit. No matter what, don't go to Detroit. Well, that is unless you want to be nowhere near any decent snowboarding and you'd like to see the closest thing to a 3rd world country that America has to offer. In that case, then by all means go to Detroit.


Ups... sorry... I meant Denver :blush: (Guess I lost some credits now... )


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## chomps1211

linvillegorge said:


> Don't go to Detroit. No matter what, don't go to Detroit. Well, that is unless you want to be nowhere near any decent snowboarding and you'd like to see the closest thing to a 3rd world country that America has to offer. In that case, then by all means go to Detroit.





neni said:


> Ups... sorry... I meant Denver :blush: (Guess I lost some credits now... )


*HEY!!!!!!* Wtf???? 



Nah! That's about right! :dunno:  
...of course I knew that _had_ to be a typo when nen's posted that!


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## Argo

Here is silverton in December 2012..... I wanna go back again, we are way better riders now with an added 300+ days of experience. I'd actually be inclined to meet you and your husband at any of these mountains, we have done minimum 6 days at each one already and love them all.....



silverton2 on Vimeo


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## Argo

vail.....





Big sky.....






Jackson hole


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## mhaas

Where's the Utah love, neni? Its not like it averages over 500 inches of super dry snow a year or anything??


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## mojo maestro

mhaas said:


> Its not like it averages over 500 inches of super dry snow a year or anything??


But it's still Utah.........best parts of Utah are south of I-70.


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## killclimbz

mojo maestro said:


> But it's still Utah.........best parts of Utah are south of I-70.



You guys are harsh. Utah is rad. Most years it does get a lot more snow than Colorado, and you can ride steeper lines mid winter in the backcountry. Not nearly as sketch of a snow pack as here. 

Anyway, mhaas has a point, a lot of bang for your buck in Utah. I have had some awesome days there.


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## Argo

Utah is cool.... Here's south of 70....


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## mojo maestro

Corona Arch..........that's a sweet rope swing spot.


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## mhaas

The funny thing is, Utah is more "Utah" south of I 70. Northern Utah is way more liberal than southern Utah aside from the touristy areas you Colorado folk like to play in.

Northern Utah is just as badass. Everything pictured is within 1.5 hours of the airport.


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## Argo

mojo maestro said:


> Corona Arch..........that's a sweet rope swing spot.


Just make sure the rope isn't too long.....


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## mojo maestro

Rope swing is nothin'.........some crazy fuck flew a plane through that arch.


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## neni

linvillegorge said:


> Neni had a great trip to AK no doubt, but another trip to AK would certainly top it. I was up there right after she was and the conditions were largely what I would call dogshit. She got a lot better conditions than I did as she did several heli days while I was just squeezing in a couple of days at Alyeska as I could fit them into my work schedule, but overall, it was about the worst AK season that anyone up there could remember. I definitely gotta get back up there soon to redeem that one.





neni said:


> Haha! We had pretty good conditions at the beginning of the trip while hiking but after 20days continuous bluebird (in.the.Chugachs!) uhm... I prefer to call these conditions "challenging", but dogshit fits well . You're absolutely right, in terms of snow conditions, it only can get better. I'd swap the 5 fly days we had in challenging snow for a crap week with lots of down days due to storms but with 1 day fresh pow



Just quickly put some takes together to illustrate the conditions in the last week of the trip. Each take is 15seconds, each of decreasing snow goodness. In hindsight, the first take was one of the best snow run we had and it sure wasn't _good_ snow. But compared to crusts n hardpack in many different nuances, spotted with shiny ice, uneven windblown crusts that made your teeth rattle, sometimes nicely even crusts which one could carve on... thus already short soft parts were "great". No dust or faceshots but bits n pieces flying around :blink:

http://vimeo.com/96190592


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## neni

mhaas said:


> Where's the Utah love, neni? Its not like it averages over 500 inches of super dry snow a year or anything??


haha, the ignorant picture of Utha I have is just full of deserts



mhaas said:


> The funny thing is, Utah is more "Utah" south of I 70. Northern Utah is way more liberal than southern Utah aside from the touristy areas you Colorado folk like to play in.
> 
> Northern Utah is just as badass. Everything pictured is within 1.5 hours of the airport.


Those pics look terrific. Especially the chutes in the third last pic and... I love trout! So yes, I'll add Utha to the monitoring list. Would SLC be a hub you'd recomment to set the base? 




Argo said:


> vail..... Big sky..... Jackson hole





Argo said:


> Here is silverton in December 2012..... I wanna go back again, we are way better riders now with an added 300+ days of experience. I'd actually be inclined to meet you and your husband at any of these mountains, we have done minimum 6 days at each one already and love them all.....


Thanks for the vids, very appreciated! All these runs look appealing to me :thumbsup: Do you have an idea, on how much +/- vertical these mountains have? You've been to Verbier... how do they compare to "our" mountains?

BTW: Great to see how much your kid has progressed in that short time! Well yea,300+d, that's insane (in a good way!). It took me a decade to clock that many days


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## Argo

Jackson, telluride, Silverton and bigsky are all similar in steepness with a solid vertical from 2000-4000' 

No where here has as much alpine terrain as you guys do there or as there is in Alaska. They all get consistent light snow with exceptions to the lower 1/3 of the mountains in late March..... Base areas are relatively low in elevation. Vail, Breck, copper, Loveland and areas with bases 8000' or higher get light snow still on later dates. We had light pow days into early May...


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## NWBoarder

If WA has the storms blowing while you're around, then there are plenty of great places that would be super fun for you. Don't dismiss completely unless it's too warm and the rains have begun. The last few years, though, March and April have been the money months around here.


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## killclimbz

Washington is great. The backcountry riding is rowdy and super fun. It would be an easy jaunt from Alaska too. I am planning on heading to Stevens Pass again in March. Maybe I'll ride the ski area next year. El Nino can really screw Washington though this is only set up that worries me. Then again a bad Washington year means you get 300" versus 600" for the season. There is usually plenty to do no matter what. 

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


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## BFBF

Just go to Vail.
There's a ton of good places eat/stay and if you go midweek crowds aren't an issue.
The backside alone is bigger than most of the resorts previously mentioned and the with good snow, you'll be very busy finding untouched tracks, especially if you have the patience to work your way out to Siberia and outer mongolia(back bowls)


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## linvillegorge

She's got the right plan. Just wait and see where the flakes fly.


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## poutanen

Screw the states...


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## neni

poutanen said:


> Screw the states...


 SEA to Calgary is <2hrs with Alaska Air, so yes, Revy and KHM and maybe Fernie are in as well. 










So yes, wherever the flakes fall is an important aspect... but there are other aspects besides snow quality as wherever I either know locals or manage to hire guides or cat operators, no matter if BC or resort based. 

Hiring for BC out of the blue is always kind of a lottery... you never know if you're lucky a) with the guide and b) with how they match the groups. The group is always just a strong as the weekest member... K, I'm not super fit, noob in splitting and overall an OK but not very good rider, but learned that many ppl tend to overestimate their ability. Been in groups where the prerequisite would have been good fitness and riding level and there were folks in the group completely overstrained: not fit enough to hike the planned stretch, not having the level to ride the planned runs... so yes, you accept that fact in that moment and stay in mellower terrain or don't do another run and call it a day, but it sucks. So if I spend a ton of time and money to hire guides/operators, I expect to get some value, i.e. a skilled guide and matched groups. Thus recommendations on good guides/operators are highly appreciated and key to choose that spot.

And for lift accessible runs, local knowledge is key anyway. Inbounds may be not a problem in terms of avy but it's too likely that we won't find the good runs, and till we may find them they'll be chewed up by locals. The bigger the resort, the better the plan has to be. We don't have "hidden stash this way" signs here and I'm sure it's the same at yours . Besides the guiding aspect, it's just fun to meet locals, having a blast to ride together and have a beer together afterwards and share the stoke of the day.


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## Argo

The group dynamic is a great reason for places like Vail or bigsky type places. You can do big lines in bigsky with a lift or cable car. They have patrol take groups from lone peak on high avy danger days.

Jackson typically always has sidecountry guides available on short notice. They also have big terrain off the tram or with a short hike and long traverse back for sidecountry. 

Revelstoke is awesome too. They have heliand cat operating from their base and available on short notice. They have huge inbound lines with short hikes. Very barebones for resort amenities. harder to get to if driving from Calgary but they do have a small airport you can fly in to which makes it quite convenient if you don't mind paying up....

In Vail there is great terrain and for the.more experienced and better in the Group, preferably only one or two people, you can do side country with A bus ride back while the lower level riders can stay on resort. I would be happy to take people to West Vail or backside Vail sidecountry but would hand you off to more experienced east Vail guys that are great and safe/conservative in that area..... 

It's the closest to Euro style mtns also.... Meaning all high-speed lifts with on hill dining and drinking at multiple places scattered over the mtn.


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## Argo

Telluride also has great lines in bounds and side country. amazing little town, old town... The resort side is nice also. My only complaint about here was the lift layout being awkward but oh well.... One of my favorites still. 

Silverton will require a group to stick together since it's usually still guide only at that time. 

So far my 5 favorite in order are Vail, big sky, telluride, Jackson and revy. 

With more time and good snow I think revelstoke and Verbier would be up there.... The other Euro resorts would likely be higher too with good snow and less crowds, we hit in the low season and had zero crowds but from the numbers of visitors they report I'm guessing it would be fucking insane to ride there in peak Times.... 

Don't get me wrong with Vail being #1, it doesn't have alot of big terrain and yeah it gets crowded On holiday weekends but the snow is consistently great quality and the terrain is very fun, it's huge and hasn't gotten old yet. Late March and early April is usually not crowded at all.


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## neni

Thanks Argo, great info again. (Haha, before joining this board, I would had taken it for granted that there are places to eat n drink, bathrooms with spring tab water all over the place, max 5 min liftlines and chairlifts with safety- and board rest bars.)

As for Vail: I just looked at the slope maps. I assume "Front side" confers to what you called West Vail, the "Back Bowls" to backside, and "Blue Sky Basin" to East Vail?

Don't get me wrong, I've absolutely no problem to adjust to a weeker rider if riding in a "private pack" (for heaven's sake, if I'm a "guest" in someones pack I'll be thankfull for being welcomed and sure as hell not demanding!) As a sidemark: At home, usually I was the weekest in my pack, I'm thankfull to the others being patient with me and I do the same when someone else joins the pack. One adjusts the plan and potential stoke of the day accordingly. So if someone new joins and says he's eager to try but not experienced, no prob, I won't expect to do 15000ft in steep n deep that day. We'd have a great day anyway, either laughing about fails or being stoked about every run that worked out well.

It only gets unnerving if you _pay_ for an operated tour, with clear predefined aims and prerequisites and then have narcistic individuals which make it impossible to do that tour.


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## Argo

East vail is an area that is the northern facing slope right along the south side of I70, out of bounds. You get there taking the Outer Mongolia poma lift the hiking out the gates there to the top of the mtn, then drop off the north side into whatever line you want. You ride into the neighborhood and catch the free town bus back to vail mtn.

West vail is the out of bounds area that is west of the main ski area, out of bounds. You drop in to the west vail(part of town) or Intermountain part of vail. You ride into the neighborhood and catch the free town bus back to vail mtn.

Basically in the US, everything inside of the ski area boundary map is "in bounds". European "off piste" is not how the rules work here. You can ride all over the ski area(unless there is a marked closure) and still be "on piste". Anyone that I would hook you up with, including me and my son, can proficiently ride the terrain here and it's outskirts as well as any other mentioned ski areas. I would be The slower one of our group growing down hill. Anyone that I would have you ride with here out of bounds would be proficient in that terrain and reading it. This is of course if you were to come here..... I'd go to whatever of these resorts had the best snow at the time, I may not be riding vail if Jackson or bigsky have better snow, we drive for the goods as well as competitions. 

The "front side" of vail on a ski map are the slopes between cascade/lionshead lifts and high line lift and are northern facing. From game creek bowl out to Mongolia bowl is all considered "backside". Bluesky is the area serviced by skyline, Pete's and Earls lifts.....

15000' is a half day here. Even doing bus laps in east or west vail you'd get that or more.

I have gotten over caring about hauling ass so much, I have no problem waiting for people if I know them or am riding with them as my group on a resort.


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## Argo

When I do a full on heli or cat group trip, it will be a private group..... I would be pissed at an 8000' day when I know we could do at a minimum double that in good conditions.


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## poutanen

Argo said:


> When I do a full on heli or cat group trip, it will be a private group..... I would be pissed at an 8000' day when I know we could do at a minimum double that in good conditions.


Yeah we're talking about doing a heli-day with our group of patrollers. That I'm excited about, because the worst of them are still GOOD skiers and boarders, the best of them are damn good... :yahoo:


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## neni

linvillegorge said:


> El Nino years are a fickle bitch for us so it's hard to say what could be good and what might now. The San Juans are my favorite area of the state, but they tend to suck during El Nino years. Knowing it's going to be an El Nino year, I'd honestly probably look elsewhere. Other areas tend to be more reliable. I'd probably look toward Tahoe.





killclimbz said:


> El Nino typically favors Cali, southern Colorado, and areas along thay southern geographic region. Predictions are already out that Montana and probably Jackson are not going to have very good seasons. Washington could be rough too.
> 
> Overall though, Tahoe is probably the best bet. Last El Nino like this it started snowing in February there and did not stop until June. All sorts of records set for snowfall that year.


K, in short, the northern lower 48 will likely suffer in El Nino years, right? No matter if coastal or continental? How would more northern regions as BC and AK be affected? Is precipitation more unpredictable or shiftet completely?

I know, it's still early, but I'm curious anyway. Just read the latest El Nino update and it seems as if odds are increasing... Latest WMO ENSO Update


----------



## ridinbend

neni said:


> K, in short, the northern lower 48 will likely suffer in El Nino years, right? No matter if coastal or continental? How would more northern regions as BC and AK be affected? Is precipitation more unpredictable or shiftet completely?
> 
> I know, it's still early, but I'm curious anyway. Just read the latest El Nino update and it seems as if odds are increasing... Latest WMO ENSO Update


No. N Cal should not suffer. Tahoe and mammoth love EN. Pretty sure it does wonders up in BC also.


----------



## neni

ridinbend said:


> No. N Cal should not suffer. Tahoe and mammoth love EN. Pretty sure it does wonders up in BC also.


I'm confused. To what part of my post belongs your "No"? I assume, the geographic division I used was too relative and/or I'm using wrong terms...?  Is CA considered a northern 48 state?

From the quoted posts I concluded that northern states as MT, WA = bad, south = good - I've considered Tahoe to be pretty south (compared to MT, WA...)


----------



## ridinbend

neni said:


> I'm confused. To what part of my post belongs your "No"? I assume, the geographic division I used was too relative and/or I'm using wrong terms...?  Is CA considered a northern 48 state?
> 
> From the quoted posts I concluded that northern states as MT, WA = bad, south = good - I've considered Tahoe to be pretty south (compared to MT, WA...)


When using 48 to refer to the states, it's every state. This does not include Hawaii or Alaska. You are right about north versus south, but for the most part northern 48 is the continental us states of north America. It's all good I get more how you were referring to it. Cheers.


----------



## neni

Hmmm... I'm kind of allergic against readin "Alaska" and "warm" in the same sentence... El Nino 2014-2015: What the weather pattern means for 60-plus places.


----------



## ridinbend

neni said:


> Hmmm... I'm kind of allergic against readin "Alaska" and "warm" in the same sentence... El Nino 2014-2015: What the weather pattern means for 60-plus places.



Season passes.....

To buy or not to buy, that is the $1700 question.


----------



## Karasene

Alright I'll chime in 

Now granted I don't have any experience in the pacific north west where I also hear really great things about large amounts of snow fall even late in the year, I can say Utah does have some advantages. 

First most of the mountains here are less than an hour drive from an international airport. Second transportation to and from the airport is relatively easy, there's a tram and train that will transport you near your destination within the city or a train can take you further north to Ogden for the northern resorts, if that doesn't work their are shuttles you can book between $30-$50usd that will drop you off directly at your destination (About Us | Express Shuttle I just got a price quote of $49 for two people traveling from the airport to Ogden, UT (Forty minute drive) 
UTA Trax (to Frontrunner train if needed) http://www.rideuta.com/mc/?page=UTAProjects
Frontrunner train http://www.rideuta.com/mc/?page=uta-home-frontrunner

Second most ski resorts here have bus transit directly to the resort from town. If you're staying in the city this can be a long ride (an hour? longer depending) Ski bus link covers: Snowbird & Alta Ski Routes, Solitude & Brighton Ski Routes, Sundance Ski Resort, Powder Mountain Resort, Snowbasin Resort, http://www.rideuta.com/mc/?page=RidingUTA-SkiService $4.50 one way non-pass holders
Parkcity's free shuttle service including airport service http://www.visitparkcity.com/visitors/transportation/free-transit/

Third the state slogan of "The Greatest Snow On Earth" isn't just a claim in the dark, the snowpack here stays great for days and here's an article that explains why. 
Ski Utah - Snow If it's a solid snow day I've discovered you can guarantee it's going to be epic 90% of the time. Don't think it can't get icy however coming from the east coast trust me these people don't know what ice really is and this will only occur if it's been a dry season and in the spot everyone is deciding to only use a single edge on the way down. 

Forth there's generally much less people here than resorts in CO. A lift line comparison is pretty drastic. Altho you do get heavily visited mountains around here and I'd say one of the main would be Snowbird however they're pushing some of the best all mountain terrain so there's good reason, but you're chances of finding freshies go way down. The mountain is sick tho. http://www.snowbird.com

Brighton also a fun mountain but kinda feels a bit smaller due to the lift layout to me. Milly's lift tho great place! Some cool terrain for the creative rider. More of an east coast feel at that resort because it's not so new and has some nice tree runs it's also about 85% Boarders. http://www.brightonresort.com

Parkcity is for the rich tourist and park rats, best park anywhere probably nationwide hands down (but they just lost the court case to Vail so Parkcity lifts may be taken down out of spite, waiting for more news on that...) 

Snowbasin amazing mountain, less crowds, 4 peaks worth of hikeable ridge line, side country and super long runs top to bottom. I recommend riding with someone who knows the mountain well (like us) Altho we generally don't do much back country riding yet not until we invest more money into the safety of it. Depends on conditions. Plus we're teetering on what passes we want to hold next season but I live a half an hour away regardless. Oh did I mention gondolas on 2/3 sides of the resort. However the mountain doesn't cater to "snowboarders" and you'll hear Celine Dion a lot on the outdoor radio, so this mountain lacks a lot of vibe. http://www.snowbasin.com

Powder Mountain, homey, small town family type atmosphere, lots of sick powder 7,000 acres of terrain however most of it you have to work for and don't expect to get a good day at this resort with out lots of hiking, granted some of it is just small hikes. I love this mountain, there's cat riding $15 a ride (But I found when the cat packs the snow I can hike it in 15-25 minutes so I never pay. I've actually arrived alone by foot at the same moment all of my buddies got dropped by the cat and they were pretty impressed.) That is where you're going to find powder lines tho pretty much all the time. What the mountain lacks in some areas it makes up for in snow. Just not as steep and long as some of the other resorts, foods good there tho and it's one of the cheapest resorts. (Many stoners ride this mouton fyi ) http://www.powdermountain.com/en/the-mountains/resort-photos/

Jackson Hole would be sick if they got a storm, I hear about it all the time, no excuse why I haven't been yet. 

Tahoe I can only imagine having really heavy snow in spring... altho I got some good days there middle of March 2 years ago and it was nice but a mix of conditions.
Okay there ya go!


----------



## linvillegorge

'Who needs Mexico?' as tuna, yellowtail, mahi-mahi invade Southern California waters - Pete Thomas Outdoors

Looks like this big El Nino is happening. What I find encouraging is that they're referencing 1997. I wasn't our here in CO then, but it's my understanding that '97 was a KILLER year here in CO. All the big seasons I've experienced out here have all referenced back to '97. Some of the older heads can correct me on that if I'm wrong.

We shall see...


----------



## PalmerFreak

I'm seriously considering a trip to Telluride this season and it sounds like it would be a good year to go, correct?


----------



## NWBoarder

Damn Karasene, you're making me wanna go visit my sister in Utah this winter.  

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## Argo

Mt baker had me drooling over its surrounding terrain. The ski area is meh....


----------



## Argo

That picture was taken yesterday. From baker looking at shuksan

Oh and it's way the fuck out there.....


----------



## wrathfuldeity

Argo said:


> That picture was taken yesterday. From baker looking at shuksan
> 
> Oh and it's way the fuck out there.....


Damm...u was in town...I haven't been around much...getting hammered by work and family stuff...if still around we do so brew.


----------



## killclimbz

linvillegorge said:


> 'Who needs Mexico?' as tuna, yellowtail, mahi-mahi invade Southern California waters - Pete Thomas Outdoors
> 
> Looks like this big El Nino is happening. What I find encouraging is that they're referencing 1997. I wasn't our here in CO then, but it's my understanding that '97 was a KILLER year here in CO. All the big seasons I've experienced out here have all referenced back to '97. Some of the older heads can correct me on that if I'm wrong.
> 
> We shall see...


I have seen good El Nino years and bad ones. 97 was a good season, but two of the last three have been better imo. 10-11 being all time. Last year was pretty dang good too. So much so that I did one peak on my board this year and called it good. So much riding, I needed to change things up. That rarely happens. 

Anyway, one of the worst seasons I have seen is El Nino and one of the better seasons was El Nino. About the only thing I remember about them is there is usually one month that is just about as bone dry as it gets. February is generally that time frame. On either side of that it can nuke. So if the season wants to be like that, than so be it.


----------



## f00bar

killclimbz said:


> I have seen good El Nino years and bad ones. 97 was a good season, but two of the last three have been better imo. 10-11 being all time. Last year was pretty dang good too. So much so that I did one peak on my board this year and called it good. So much riding, I needed to change things up. That rarely happens.
> 
> Anyway, one of the worst seasons I have seen is El Nino and one of the better seasons was El Nino. About the only thing I remember about them is there is usually one month that is just about as bone dry as it gets. February is generally that time frame. On either side of that it can nuke. So if the season wants to be like that, than so be it.


Call me pessimistic towards meteorologists, but I have a hard time putting real stock in the whole El Nino this, or that stuff. Even if it's the largest factor there's just too many other things that can make or break things. And trumping up El Nino this way or that is just good business for them.


----------



## ridinbend

f00bar said:


> Call me pessimistic towards meteorologists, but I have a hard time putting real stock in the whole El Nino this, or that stuff. Even if it's the largest factor there's just too many other things that can make or break things. And trumping up El Nino this way or that is just good business for them.


It doesn't really have anything to do with meteorologists predictions. The Pacific ocean is abnormally warmer than usual right now which is the precursor to EN. When the ocean warms the way it is right now it brings big storms from the south. Big ocean swells and epic waves all up and down the Pacific. I just got back from so cal and friends are catching crazy amounts of tuna straight out in local waters. There's no telling what the winter will do but one thing is for sure and that is that the Pacific is alive with life from the warmer temps.

http://instagram.com/p/qstxCqSRLG/

http://instagram.com/p/qdFOrgrjjL/


----------



## f00bar

ridinbend said:


> It doesn't really have anything to do with meteorologists predictions. The Pacific ocean is abnormally warmer than usual right now which is the precursor to EN. When the ocean warms the way it is right now it brings big storms from the south. Big ocean swells and epic waves all up and down the Pacific. I just got back from so cal and friends are catching crazy amounts of tuna straight out in local waters. There's no telling what the winter will do but one thing is for sure and that is that the Pacific is alive with life from the warmer temps.
> 
> Instagram
> 
> Instagram


I understand the science and don't disregard it. I purposely steered away from using climatologist as I didn't want to mistakenly go down the path that can lead whenever that term is used. I just don't buy into El Nino means region XYZ will get more snow. I can remember a few years back when the dust storms off Africa that help form Hurricane season were ripe for a monster season that never panned out. Easy to focus on the trees and not the forest behind them.

My point is just book as late as your budget allows and see where things are at.


----------



## neni

f00bar said:


> My point is just book as late as your budget allows and see where things are at.


I'll do :thumbsup: 
Also haven't booked the heli trip yet even tho it books out rather early. Either they will have space or not. We'll see. I'm not eager to do that travel again and not have proper snow up there.

Karasane, thanks a lot for your info on UT! Highly appreciated! This keeps me busy some time


----------



## deagol

One thing this thread shows is that there really is a community here. Argo offereing room at his place for a visitor.. that's awesome.

Weather for the next season is hard to predict this far out... I would love to do a road trip down to Silverton (used to live in Durango, have visited the site of that ski area before it was built, but not since) with some peeps next season, but it's too soon to know when for me. 

Colorado Vs Utah.. I don't know. I have heard great things about Utah and I hope top visit in Winter for the first time next season (have a place to stay in SLC). As long as the snow is good, you will have a great experience (hopefully).


----------



## CassMT

planning far in advance seems so sketchy these days, you may get lucky...or not. if i were going to another continent i think i would try to find the optimum window (here i'd say it'e mid Feb to mid March), and just get to a good state or region, then start stormchasing. booking a week in one spot or another would for me be too nervewracking, the all egg son one basket scenario...if you hit even a few ultimate days in a 2 week visit you will still look back on it as a success....remaining as flexible as possible is what i'm saying i guess


----------



## ridinbend

f00bar said:


> I understand the science and don't disregard it. I purposely steered away from using climatologist as I didn't want to mistakenly go down the path that can lead whenever that term is used. I just don't buy into El Nino means region XYZ will get more snow. I can remember a few years back when the dust storms off Africa that help form Hurricane season were ripe for a monster season that never panned out. Easy to focus on the trees and not the forest behind them.
> 
> My point is just book as late as your budget allows and see where things are at.


I 100% understand and agree. Hopefully it works out for Tahoe and mammoth if anybody. El Nino has been pretty good to those spots. But yeah, anything can happen.


----------



## Argo

wrathfuldeity said:


> Damm...u was in town...I haven't been around much...getting hammered by work and family stuff...if still around we do so brew.


Yeah, we were there and camped a night at silver fur grounds. Then headed up to BC and whistler.

My son asked about you and your daughter, I had told them that we may get a local guide/ride buddy during the slalom, but didn't wanna bother you on short notice

I'm in bend now sitting in a laundromat and heading to hood tomorrow. Did a lot of hiking and biking but no riding


----------



## ridinbend

Argo said:


> Yeah, we were there and camped a night at silver fur grounds. Then headed up to BC and whistler.
> 
> My son asked about you and your daughter, I had told them that we may get a local guide/ride buddy during the slalom, but didn't wanna bother you on short notice
> 
> I'm in bend now sitting in a laundromat and heading to hood tomorrow. Did a lot of hiking and biking but no riding


Perfect timing, heats back up tomorrow.


----------



## Argo

Hey ridenbend are there any must eat at places that are downtown area?


----------



## ridinbend

Argo said:


> Hey ridenbend are there any must eat at places that are downtown area?


Zydeco is a must but a bit spendy.


----------



## neni

*Easter holiday rush...?*

How busy are your mountains a week before Easter? i.e. March 20th-27th? 



CassMT said:


> if i were going to another continent i think i would try to find the optimum window (here i'd say it'e mid Feb to mid March), and just get to a good state or region, then start stormchasing. booking a week in one spot or another would for me be too nervewracking, the all egg son one basket scenario...if you hit even a few ultimate days in a 2 week visit you will still look back on it as a success....remaining as flexible as possible is what i'm saying i guess


I get your point.... and I get that late March-early April is not optimal for riding continental US, but the main reason we'll cross ocean n continent is the week in Alaska, where the heli season just begins end of Feb (short days are a limiting factor). They get ~15minutes more daylight per day... thus we chose the rather late time frame. It's give and take...


----------



## CassMT

late season, like last 'spring' can be incredible. the One day, the ultimate pow day of last winter here was Mar. 26, 9 days before our mtn closes and it stayed amazing til closing (and after)..never can tell...good luck neni, at this point i think the universe owes you some good snow
.
.
.
.


----------



## ridinbend

All of march is spring break for the universities and schools. It is the second busiest time of the season besides the holidays. March/April is also one of the best months/periods to ride for the cascades.


----------



## f00bar

neni said:


> How busy are your mountains a week before Easter? i.e. March 20th-27th?


I can't tell you for sure as you'll be out West before I ever will be  However I will say that around here (New England) the week before Easter is traditionally a week school break in many towns. Travel wise i always thought the week after made more sense, but at least our town and quite a few around do before.

edit: Thinking on it more it has to do with aligning so they don't have an extra day for Good Friday.


----------



## Argo

The 20-27 is actually the week before the week before easter. That will be A slight swing period with the last of the busiest spring break weeks leaving and easter week following it....


----------



## neni

Thanks guy for the input! Highly appreciated. 
BTW: It's thanks to this forum I got the inspiration for the first trip :thumbsup:



Argo said:


> The 20-27 is actually the week before the week before easter. That will be A slight swing period with the last of the busiest spring break weeks leaving and easter week following it....


Sold. Just got the message that the AK week is fine. Yay, can't wait for the next season. Now... find flights, get fit, and there's an entire season at home to exercise jumps :yahoo: super stoked!


----------



## Karasene

Jelly. :eusa_clap:


----------



## neni

*CO questions*

The I-70 between Denver/Vail... I get from other threads that it's rush hour prone route. Assume, it's the weekend warrior Friday evening rush westwards n Sunday eastwards. Or does this also apply Thursday evenings/Friday mornings?

I assume, renting a 4x4 is a good idea? (We're used to driving on snow/ice and using snowchains)

That Dillon Reservoir Lake... is it usually frozen mid/end March? Is it windy in March at all?


----------



## jjb7733

I drive a VW jetta up there from Golden with front wheel drive and no chains, and if I leave at 6 am on the weekends and head back around 2 pm I have very little trouble with the traffic on I-70 either way. However leaving a-basin and trying to get up the pass in the afternoon can be impossible with my car, I usually have to go around the long way.


----------



## linvillegorge

neni said:


> Is it windy in March at all?


It's always windy.


----------



## Argo

4x4 will prevent you from being one of the retards stuck on the side of the road or being in an accident. Managing 100+ people that drive the passes every day, the ones with 4x4 or awd always get to work, others do not. Another difference with rentals is you don't get snow tires like the European rentals swap out to in winter, just all seasons tires. Chains are an extra charge just like in Europe. 

Your assumption on traffic is correct but in general the morning traffic heading west is busier than the evening westbound traffic. Friday evening is insanity. Sunday eastbound is also insanity. 

Dillon is definitely frozen in March and summit county is always windy....


----------



## jjb7733

It seems like the ones that are stuck in the ditch or smashed into the guard rail are usually 4x4's


----------



## linvillegorge

jjb7733 said:


> It seems like the ones that are stuck in the ditch or smashed into the guard rail are usually Subarus


FTFY

Hey, you can't fix stupid. Those with 4x4 or AWD who act like they can still drive like it's 75 and sunny? Yeah, they're gonna have some problems with that eventually. But, the big advantage 4x4/AWD offers is when you have to stop on an incline. Going up the hill at Georgetown or the hill on either side of the tunnel or on Vail Pass it's not fun getting those two wheel drives up and going again when they have to stop on the uphill.


----------



## CassMT

jjb7733 said:


> It seems like the ones that are stuck in the ditch or smashed into the guard rail are usually 4x4's


QFT...and the Fiestas and '87 Rabbits just blaze on thru, hah


----------



## neni

Argo said:


> Another difference with rentals is you don't get snow tires like the European rentals swap out to in winter, just all seasons tires.


That's bizarre.... snow tires are so mucht better in snow... :dunno: since there are passes, combined with the weaker tires gonna get an AWD then, it's night and days on inclines (at my home, it's 2 months either FWD with chains or AWD, otherwise you won't manage the steep track). 


Thanks for the info!
Good news with the frozen lake n wind! We may fit in a day snowkiting - if there's no dump to ride, of course :laugh:

Swapped the arrival day in Denver to Thursday March 19th instead of Friday. Not eager to spend my holiday in traffic jams if it can be avoided getting there a day earlier. 

As prices of flights n rental cars have already increased since I last checked, I gonna pull the trigger now :yahoo:

Any hints on dos n don'ts in CO are appreciated!


----------



## killclimbz

The top Colorado hint I can think of is buy your booze at a liquor store. Grocery store beer is watered down 3.2% swill. Many out of staters get popped by that one.


----------



## deagol

if staying in Summit County, expect lots of annoying tourists..

give Loveland a try, if you can


----------



## Argo

Don't take baked goods Or candy from strangers.


----------



## ridinbend

Get high and don't drink and drive.:dizzy:


----------



## neni

Good hint with the beer, Killc. Love my can after riding. You've also got these funny brown paper bags and no drinking in public rules? (Remember the first beer buy in AK. Payed n took the cans, wanting to leave. Girl saying wait, the bag! - I don't need a bag, we'll drink them right away - You need a bag! - No really, I don’t need a bag - You _need_ a bag! - okeyyy...?).

Loveland is on the list, their ridge cat sounds interesting :thumbsup:

Which is a reliable weatherforecast/precipitation/snowcondition/avy info site I should monitor?

Which part of Denver is a nice place to hang out the last evening before getting the plane Sat morning?


----------



## linvillegorge

You won't run into any of those weird drinking in public laws here in CO.

Weather forecast site? NOAA.gov and opensnow.com.
Avy site? Colorado Avalanche Information Center –

Where to hang out in Denver? No clue, I pretty much don't.

Also, I'll add that if you want to buy weed, do it down in the Denver area before heading to the mountains. Much better deals in the Denver metro area dispensaries than there are up in the mountains.


----------



## deagol

You will hopefully have fun on Loveland's ridge cat. The vertical drop probably won't be anywhere near what you are used to in Europe, but it's still fun if conditions are good. It can be very windy there...

As far as Denver, I am not very knowledgable, but I know others like an area called "LODO" which means *Lo*wer *Do*wntown. There are lots of bars there- if that's your thing. 

If you keep in touch with folks as things get closer, you will probably find people here willing to show you around. If you plan on going to Copper Mountain on a Monday, I might be there.

Also, I have heard the weekend crowds are not very bad if you venture as far west as Beaver Creek. Saturday crowds in Breckenridge & Vail are very bad.


----------



## f00bar

I think you've already set itineraries, but to me setting sat/sun as your arrival seems ideal to avoid both traffic, you'd be going the other way, and weekend crows with all weekday riding. Just curious, how long are you making this outing?


----------



## jjb7733

Loveland is awesome if the snow is fresh! The parking lot can be completely full on the weekend and still little or no lift lines, but they are pretty slow and windy lifts!


----------



## killclimbz

For Denver, downtown is generally the place to stay. Lots of great restaurants and breweries in the area. Rino, LoDo, Highlands, 17th st are all right there or within a short distance.


----------



## neni

Good info with Loveland not being crowded on weekends... may be a good starting point then. And thanks for the wind hint: the immediately-shivering-if-not-moving girl will take the down jacket to that mountain then  



f00bar said:


> I think you've already set itineraries, but to me setting sat/sun as your arrival seems ideal to avoid both traffic, you'd be going the other way, and weekend crows with all weekday riding. Just curious, how long are you making this outing?


We need to leave/fly Sat March 28th morning, it's a fixed date for the AK part of the trip. Thus arriving the Sat/Sun a week before would be a bit short. Thinking now of arriving on Thursday afternoon and immediately head westwards to avoid the worst Friday westbound traffic. This gives 8 full days. 

If crowds are an issue, we can avoid resorts on the weekend. We've our split/avy equipment with us, and if conditions don't allow to hike, well, we're on holiday... it won't kill to sleep in and add a lazy day with sightseeing . Or we spend the weekend in LUV and on Dillon lake. Or whatever/whereever suits best to the conditions. Everything between the arrival/leave day is flexible. Besides the first and last night, I won't book accomotations in advance.


----------



## jjb7733

neni said:


> Good info with Loveland not being crowded on weekends... may be a good starting point then.


I'm not saying it isn't crowded, but somehow they don't usually suffer from the long lift lines when it is.


----------



## f00bar

I so envy your travels! It's kinda funny, around here we always talk about wanting to head to your neck of the woods, and here you are coming over here. Of course the sad part is you've gone to better places here than I have.


----------



## Argo

Lines are alright and organized in comparison to Europe. It's actually lines and not a mad mob pushing through the turnstiles. Usually on busy days I'll ride hard early and get 20k' vertical by noon and chill all afternoon. Sometimes catching a few late afternoon lifts. Even on the busy days you can stay ahead of the crowd. Most tourist skiers/rider's don't start until 10/1030 and stop for lunch, then go from 1230 to 1430. In March the lifts are open 830 to 1600. Keystone has night riding until 2000.


----------



## neni

Argo said:


> Lines are alright and organized in comparison to Europe. It's actually lines and not *a mad mob pushing through the turnstiles*. Usually on busy days I'll ride hard early and get 20k' vertical by noon and chill all afternoon. Sometimes catching a few late afternoon lifts. Even on the busy days you can stay ahead of the crowd. Most tourist skiers/rider's don't start until 10/1030 and stop for lunch, then go from 1230 to 1430. In March the lifts are open 830 to 1600. Keystone has night riding until 2000.


LOL, what a good short descripion. And IIRC, you haven't had a day with fresh here, when the mad mob gets _really_ pushy 

 we've about the same schedule.


----------



## KansasNoob

This is what you can expect for tires on an AWD rental. 2014 Outback. 

I think it's awesome you're coming to ride. If you were going to be there earlier in the month, I would definitely catch a few laps with y'all.


----------



## linvillegorge

Yep, you're gonna get the cheapest, longest lasting, hard as a rock tires on the planet on a rental car. The tires pictured are actually pretty decent for a rental, at least they have a decent amount of siping. Hence the need for 4x4 or AWD in a rental. People out here who frequently travel to the mountains who don't have 4x4 or AWD almost always have snow tires and often carry chains as well. That makes a HUGE difference. You're not gonna have those luxuries in a rental. It may not snow while you're here and the 4x4/AWD not needed, but no way of knowing that. Better to hedge toward being prepared for the worst.


----------



## KansasNoob

Yeah they are pretty well siped. Those were the stock Continentals and I would trust the car on them. I doubt it can push snow like a pickup with them but I wouldn't be scared to drive it in a foot. I don't know if Sub's are a big thing in Europe but there is a reason people love em here.


----------



## linvillegorge

KansasNoob said:


> there is a reason people love em here.


Why, because they hate head gaskets? :laugh:


----------



## KansasNoob

Lol see my pic in "today I hate"? 

Don't like connecting rods either, hahahah


----------



## mikeg

neni said:


> That's bizarre.... snow tires are so mucht better in snow... :dunno: since there are passes, combined with the weaker tires gonna get an AWD then, it's night and days on inclines (at my home, it's 2 months either FWD with chains or AWD, otherwise you won't manage the steep track).
> 
> 
> Thanks for the info!
> Good news with the frozen lake n wind! We may fit in a day snowkiting - if there's no dump to ride, of course :laugh:
> 
> Swapped the arrival day to Thursday instead of Friday. Not eager to spend my holiday in traffic jams if it can be avoided getting there a day earlier.
> 
> As prices of flights n rental cars have already increased since I last checked, I gonna pull the trigger now :yahoo:
> 
> Any hints on dos n don'ts in CO are appreciated!


If you get a chance, check out Euclid Hall for dinner. Great food and great beers--how can you not like a place that categorizes their beers by comparing them to mathematical complexity?

Welcome to Euclid Hall Bar and Kitchen!


----------



## snowklinger

mikeg said:


> If you get a chance, check out Euclid Hall for dinner. Great food and great beers--how can you not like a place that categorizes their beers by comparing them to mathematical complexity?
> 
> Welcome to Euclid Hall Bar and Kitchen!


I've been meaning to get to Euclid. I was very underwhelmed by Rioja.


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