# do u agree with this snowboard school ability chart??



## Ballistic (Aug 31, 2009)

Whistler - Ability Chart and Videos

Is it just me or is this ability chart wacked out? Maybe whistler likes thier students to feel they are alot more advanced than others agree with,, iveseen alot of other charts that place all these skill sets a click lower. Have a look.. whaddaya think??


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## IdahoFreshies (Jul 9, 2011)

well the videos are all about skiiers...so of course they think they are better than they actually are:cheeky4:


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## Grizz (Nov 10, 2008)

Ballistic said:


> Whistler - Ability Chart and Videos
> 
> Is it just me or is this ability chart wacked out? Maybe whistler likes thier students to feel they are alot more advanced than others agree with,, iveseen alot of other charts that place all these skill sets a click lower. Have a look.. whaddaya think??


I think this is the chart you were looking at. http://www.whistlerblackcomb.com/snowschool/ability_charts.htm

Well in my thinking, you can't be lower than a one or higher than a six so those levels are accurate. It must be 2-5 you have issues with but to me they seem fine. 

Too many people get hung up on what level they are, or should be. It's just a relative ranking that makes setting up a group lesson easier, nothing more. 

Some parents attitudes towards their offspring in regards to this kind of chart are the absolute worst to deal with.


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## Ballistic (Aug 31, 2009)

IdahoFreshies said:


> well the videos are all about skiiers...so of course they think they are better than they actually are:cheeky4:


Theres a link for snowboards on that same page.. oops


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## jlm1976 (Feb 26, 2009)

These seem about right. Snowboard levels are really hard to define. Skiing has a clear, established progression. Snowboarding only has a somewhat clear progression up to level 3-4 on that chart because everyone needs to know how to link turns on green terrain. After that, things start to get a little fuzzy. 
At the level 4 stage in that chart, you could have 5people in your level "4" group, all with different goals. One could want to learn flatground tricks, one steeper terrain, one carving, one switch....
This complication is one of the reasons I love snowboarding and love teaching it.


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## CheeseForSteeze (May 11, 2011)

What the hell is wrong with the person who chose the intro music for those videos?


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## Ballistic (Aug 31, 2009)

ok.. i'll concede to you guys i know some of you are high level instructors and i certainly am not. But have a look at this chart here Snowboarding & Ski Ability | KeystoneResort.com
not only is it alot more detailed but if u look at thier 'intermediate' descriptions they essentially describe what whistler is calling "advanced". Heres an excerpt below. I really like thier ADVANCED description also, they call levels 7, 8, 9.

INTERMEDIATE- LEVEL 5

Description: You ski or ride comfortably and confidently on all “green circle” and most groomed “blue square” terrain at Keystone. You can link turns (mostly parallel for skiers) of varying sizes and you can control your speed in most situations by adjusting your line, with little need for braking (“gliding the slow line fast”).

What to expect—depending on your needs and goals:
- Explore higher speeds and more vigorous movements for shorter, complete turns.
- Develop higher edge angles and discover the control and sensations of carved turns.
- Gain confidence on steeper, more challenging groomed blue terrain.
- Venture into easiest ungroomed terrain.


INTERMEDIATE- LEVEL 6

Description: You are comfortable and confident on any groomed “blue square” terrain, and capable of skiing or riding easiest ungroomed and moguled blue terrain. You can link turns of varying size at moderate speed. If you are a skier, you are usually parallel, and you may use a pole swing or plant in most of your turns. Snowboarders are beginning to skid less, with the tail of the board following the tip, for more control of their line.

What to expect—depending on your needs and goals:
- Refine your balance, technique, and consistency.
- Explore technical options for more versatility, from pure-carved turns to braking. Skiers learn to use both skis independently, with step turns, stem turns, and one- or two-footed movements. Snowboarders develop rhythm and build your bag of tricks with more varied movement options.
- Explore tactical options for confidence in more challenging blue terrain and conditions, including the steepest blue square runs and easy moguls.


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## Donutz (May 12, 2010)

Probably very useful for setting levels in lessons -- if you're above 6 you probably aren't a potential customer anyway. But I find it funny that I'm a 5/6 on that scale, and I've got _so_ far to go before I could keep up with a lot of the people on this forum.


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## Ballistic (Aug 31, 2009)

on the whistler ADVANCED video it says quote "able to link turns on easy blue runs..." I cant help but think "dude.. i hope you can link turns on blue if u call yourself 'advanced' level snowboarder." 

i dunno, i just dont like the idea of levels being diluted. If you are an advanced or expert rider.. you are pretty damn good.

The danger here, i think, is it would be a marketing advantage for a resort to be able to send students away with inflated assessments. Like a driving school that pumps out shitty drivers who are sketchy.


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## Lab (Nov 21, 2010)

I like that keystone chart. After reading it I seem to be between a 7 and 8, and i didn't think I was quite there


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## j.gnar (Sep 4, 2009)

i didnt see any mention of switch riding in either of those charts :dunno:


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## CheeseForSteeze (May 11, 2011)

I agree. No mention of how much pole jerkin' butthole surfin thug life steez you ride with either.

But seriously, switch riding will make all your riding stronger and is itself indicative of strong riding skills.


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## snowklinger (Aug 30, 2011)

> I agree. No mention of how much pole jerkin' butthole surfin thug life steez you ride with either.


this is why I look good doing level 1 snowboarding.


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## gjsnowboarder (Sep 1, 2009)

Donutz said:


> Probably very useful for setting levels in lessons -- if you're above 6 you probably aren't a potential customer anyway. But I find it funny that I'm a 5/6 on that scale, and I've got _so_ far to go before I could keep up with a lot of the people on this forum.


That right there is the battle for many snowsports schools. Getting the upper level rider. If you use the 9 level system like AASI this is where a persons riding can really take off yet many times people feel like they don't need assistance. To me its like getting a Hs Diploma or GED and not taking it to the next level of education, any level of education. yeah you can be successful in life but the statistics say additional education usually pays off. Knowledge is power.


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## Ballistic (Aug 31, 2009)

well i started looking at these charts because i am hoping to maybe git some lessons this season. I am generally level 6 at some skills, 7 at other skills, and 8 at other skills. In other words... weak in park tricks, switch. Stronger in freeride oriented stuff, dynamic carved and skidded turns no problem. In fact this season i plan to specifically progress my park skills even though in my soul i know i'm more about freeride. I happily compare this to dirt biking... i grew up from 10 yrs old riding offroad. Offroad, not mx tracks. I compare freeride to offroad and park to the local track (or x games maybe). Offraod is wide open spaces... exploration... fresh tracks... natural jumps, banks, trails, desert, mountains, fields, streams... you get the picture. Now i will say this, i'm 49 yrs young this year and this is my 4th full season snowboarding... im loving it even more than offroad riding, baseball, softball, whatever.. its by far my #1 sport now.


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## j.gnar (Sep 4, 2009)

CheeseForSteeze said:


> I agree. No mention of how much pole jerkin' butthole surfin thug life steez you ride with either.
> 
> But seriously, switch riding will make all your riding stronger and is itself indicative of strong riding skills.


not sure if that is a poke at what i said or what, but i always figured a top level rider would be competent in riding both regular and goofy stances. maybe thats just me?


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## CheeseForSteeze (May 11, 2011)

What? No. I agree, switch riding is something that any good rider needs, whether they focus freestyle or not. It improves all aspects of riding and is indicative of strong overall riding ability.


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## Donutz (May 12, 2010)

CheeseForSteeze said:


> What? No. I agree, switch riding is something that any good rider needs, whether they focus freestyle or not. It improves all aspects of riding and is indicative of strong overall riding ability.


One thing you don't want is to limit yourself to half of the possibilities. I remember in basketball (way way way back) in school, some guys who couldn't use their off hand simply wouldn't use the left side of the court. Same principle with riding switch -- you'll only end up doing half of what you could be doing.


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## caneyhead (Jan 5, 2009)

Switch riding if nothing else but to avoid lengthy heal side traverses.


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## Jon T (Mar 19, 2010)

I agree with all of the switch riding talk. It doesn't seem like people take that into account, but in the end if you can ride switch as good as you can regular, you are a lot better rider than that person who goes out and hucks tricks regular all of the time. I don't even know if someone should be considered advanced if they cant ride switch all over the hill.


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## skycdo (Sep 15, 2011)

Yeah I definitely wouldn't call someone "advanced" if they can link turns comfortably on blues... The Keystone levels make more sense. Whistler's are too generic to be beneficial. I haven't gotten switch down at all and I hesitate to call myself "intermediate"


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## CheeseForSteeze (May 11, 2011)

Donutz said:


> One thing you don't want is to limit yourself to half of the possibilities. I remember in basketball (way way way back) in school, some guys who couldn't use their off hand simply wouldn't use the left side of the court. Same principle with riding switch -- you'll only end up doing half of what you could be doing.


Yea, I remember I always had to guard a kid and I noticed he couldn't really drive with his left hand so I'd just force him around to the left every time. We'd most likely get a turnover and he would never score even if he could take it to the hole. Not that I'm one to talk, left handed layups aren't exactly the easiest thing for me.

Now, in snowboarding, riding switch isn't quite as tricky as skating switch, but I think that's all the more reason why people should be able to do it. I know very few skaters (personally) that can switch flip and only one that has switch tres dialed. There's really no expectation to skate switch because it's so difficult but I think for snowboarding, everyone should learn it eventually.


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## jlm1976 (Feb 26, 2009)

At my old mountain, I used to have all the new instructors do this after going over teaching beginners. Then, coming down that green, we talk about using those movements for beginners we just went over to improve their switch riding. It was always a goodtime and usually humbled them right away. 
We also used to have random "switch days" where everyone tied a piece of fluorescent tape around their new front leg and if you got spotted with it in the back when riding there were consequences...


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## Grizz (Nov 10, 2008)

jlm1976 said:


> At my old mountain, I used to have all the new instructors do this after going over teaching beginners. Then, coming down that green, we talk about using those movements for beginners we just went over to improve their switch riding. It was always a goodtime and usually humbled them right away.


When clinicing new hires on first time progressions, I also have them do it on their first chairlift ride, if it seems safe for the group. Great way for them to develop empathy for their future students.



jlm1976 said:


> We also used to have random "switch days" where everyone tied a piece of fluorescent tape around their new front leg and if you got spotted with it in the back when riding there were consequences...


:thumbsup: I may be "stealing" this. Sounds like a fun time.


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## jlm1976 (Feb 26, 2009)

It's a great "challenge by choice ". If I do a clinic the same day as switch day, usually just break everyone into groups of 3 and tell them to just go ride switch as a group and coach each other and then just float from group to group to help keep them on task. Great way to work on their teaching while riding.


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