# Best board company



## enayes (Dec 28, 2010)

I would never buy a Burton, don't really have a reason but I just prefer to support other companies. I've heard that there high-end stuff is top-notch but they sell a lot of mediocre boards for more than there worth.

I bought a Bataleon Evil twin this year because the TBT tech sounds really cool and makes sense. The only other board I bought was a used 04 arbor mystic.


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## WHOisDAN (Jan 16, 2011)

Subjective 

Everyone has their own opinion. 

The top five snowboard brands that provide performance and durability - Yahoo! Sports


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## MistahTaki (Apr 24, 2010)

burton of course because burton is snowboarding and snowboarding is burton.


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## uh oh a virus (Jan 19, 2011)

ehh i dont buy burton. its more of a mainstream thing for me... i prefer getting brands that have amazing quality, but not as known.


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## keepridingi5 (Jan 25, 2011)

uh oh a virus said:


> ehh i dont buy burton. its more of a mainstream thing for me... i prefer getting brands that have amazing quality, but not as known.


Yeah Im not a burton fan at all. I think they are far over priced for the lack of quality. I like looking at the "good wood" of the year rankings to find the best boards.

Do most people do this or is it just me?


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## thetraveler (Feb 24, 2010)

keepridingi5 said:


> I think they are far over priced for the lack of quality.


which Burton boards in particular and which other brands have cheaper boards in the same class as those overpriced Burtons?


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## WHOisDAN (Jan 16, 2011)

Burton made good boards for a long time. A decade ago, Burton was ahead of the pack. It doesn't appear that way now because other companies are stepping up their game. I wouldn't recommend mid to low range boards from Burton, but I see nothing wrong with their high-end models. Brand name recognition is the reason why they cost more, and the same can be said about Nike.

Hating Burton because they are mainstream is something I often hear from "hypbeasts" here in trendy California. You shouldn't dislike something if you never tried it.


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## Huy (Jan 12, 2011)

Lib Tech and K2 boards are my favorite


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## thetraveler (Feb 24, 2010)

WHOisDAN said:


> Burton made good boards for a long time. A decade ago, Burton was ahead of the pack. It doesn't appear that way now because other companies are stepping up their game. I wouldn't recommend mid to low range boards from Burton, but I see nothing wrong with their high-end models. Brand name recognition is the reason why they cost more, and the same can be said about Nike.
> 
> Hating Burton because they are mainstream is something I often hear from "hypbeasts" here in trendy California. You shouldn't dislike something if you never tried it.


I guess I have to take your word for it. I never owned a Burton board but I also never rode on one that I thought was bad and I've ridden a few. I was curious as to which Burton boards people are referring to when they're talking about bad quality and what specifically are they comparing them to.


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## The Last Laugh (Jan 4, 2011)

I've never ridden a Burton board myself but I do have a lot of friends that ride Burton. A buddy of mine actually split his Burton V-rocker the other week by simply falling, a skier cut him off, so he called Burton on the moutain and they gave him a RA# and he sent it back the following day. I think regardless of the brand or board its all about customer service. Different strokes for different folks


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## Shocktroop531 (Aug 3, 2010)

burton boards are pretty good but extremely overrated and overpriced. not nearly the best boards out there. 

for my money I'd say Lib Tech, Never Summer, Venture, Jones, and Rossignol make some of the best boards. I started riding a Lib this year and its completely changed me . I had a ride before that and riding a lib made me realize what a piece of shit ride was.


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## KIRKRIDER (Mar 18, 2008)

LOve my *Arbor A - Frame*....amazing board..and love my Burton Driver X boots too. Why hate them? Because they are successful? Check "Powder and Rails" movie (Netflix Streaming), and tell me igf you can hate Jake.


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## LI Boarder (Jan 9, 2010)

*Another vote for the Driver X's. Love my Lib Tech TRS also.*


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## init (Mar 8, 2010)

The second board I got was a Burton a-series 149. This was back in 1996-98 if I recall correctly, and that thing held up for 6-7 years! I bought the board in a package with boots (ruler) and freestyle bindings. Replaced a couple of straps on the bindings, otherwise that whole package held up more than anything I've bought these later years.

I understand the haters saying low to mid sucks as far as bang for the bucks, but this company started the whole thing, and snowboards would probably not be the same today if it wasn't for Burton. I may sound like a burton fan-boy, but in reality I'm not. I just don't think they deserve all the hate they get.


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## eddoggydog (Mar 1, 2010)

My first board was a burton SuperModel that I still have and ride, probably 12 yrs old. I also have tried Rome SDS and NeverSummer. I was recently looking for a new board and thought for sure I was going to get either a Rome Agent or NS Evo. I ended up either the Burton Nug because it was just so much fun and under $500. I've never ridden the higher end Burton boards so Im curious to hear which are overpriced and what the counter parts that are cheaper/better from the other companies.


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## thetraveler (Feb 24, 2010)

Shocktroop531 said:


> I had a ride before that and riding a lib made me realize what a piece of shit ride was.


I'm thinking about stocking Ride in my shop in the 2011/2012 season. Which particular Ride board(s) was it that you thought was bad? Cheers


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## cjs2002 (Nov 15, 2010)

it's not that burton is bad. it's just that neversummer and Lib are so far ahead in at this point (in my opinion). i rode a burton for a long time...deciding on a neversummer SL this year was a complete game changer for me and i have newfound excitement for the sport.


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## maybeitsjustme (Dec 1, 2008)

I currently ride a Lib Tech board, but have also ridden Ride boards a lot over the past few years, and I have to say I can't disagree more. Ride boards are awesome--fun, poppy, and tons of life. I rode a Ride Society for a couple of seasons and still think that board had the most pop of any board I've ever had under my feet. Definitely a park monster.

When compared to the Rome Agent, which people on this forum love--the Ride Society made the Agent feel like a dead piece of wood under my feet.

I will definitely buy another Ride board in the future.


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## Chaos Theory (Sep 17, 2010)

I keep gravitating back to Burton probably because I am comfortable with their product. 

I remember the days of the Burton Air, Crazy Banana, Barfoot etc and we thought a few feet of air and a clean grab was all a man (or woman) could ask for. It didn't matter what you rode, just the fact that you rode was bonding. I remember when skiers told us we were not welcome on 'their' hill and to F-off (lol had fun with some of those tough guys)

My friend became a Burton rep and I watched as Burton really progressed the industry, sometimes in a good way, sometimes in a not so good way. I was fortunate to be able to ride a lot of different boards and got hooked on the Custom for years.

Of course there are Burton boards I feel are crap, just like I feel there are other manufacturers that have some crappy boards too. I just haven't been on another manufacturer's board that I have liked more than some of my Burton's. I do believe they are out there, and in greater numbers than ever. I wish I still had a large group of friends to ride with on a frequent basis so I could still try various equipment.

I would like to try a NS Evo, a Bataleon ET (almost bought one a little while ago), Capita Stairmaster..

Any other recommendations on boards/brands I should try? I like a board I can press, and I like a true twin. Currently I ride a Burton Love which I, well uh, love.


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## freshy (Nov 18, 2009)

WHOisDAN said:


> Subjective
> 
> Everyone has their own opinion.
> 
> The top five snowboard brands that provide performance and durability - Yahoo! Sports


I totally agree with that list. Mervin Mfg has been innovating since day one, seems like every few years a new technology that actually helps and isint just hype comes out. I like the fact they are built for riders by riders.
And Never Summer is a great company as well, it's weird how that list and a lot of people say it's a company no one has heard of...I knew about them as soon as I got into boarding over 15 years ago, and I have seen a lot of their boards being used by people who rip. Again a company that is built by riders and don't make their boards in China.
As much as I hate to admit it Burtons high end stuff is pretty good. But I don't like much else about them.


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## PredaClone (Dec 30, 2010)

freshy said:


> I like the fact they are built for riders by riders.


Because other people's boards are built by gerbils for turkeys, right?


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## freshy (Nov 18, 2009)

PredaClone said:


> Because other people's boards are built by gerbils for turkeys, right?


Built by people who don't snowboard or care about snowboarding for people who have money. Built in the USA or built in China. If you think there is no difference you are a fool.


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## enayes (Dec 28, 2010)

the USA isn't god when it comes to manufacturing, great products are made all over the world


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## JoeR (Oct 30, 2010)

freshy said:


> Built by people who don't snowboard or care about snowboarding


This factor conceivably could make a difference, but it would have to be demonstrated empirically, through quality studies. I wouldn't take it on faith.



> Built in the USA or built in China.


This factor can make a difference from a macroeconomic perspective, but not necessarily to the board itself. However, if you choose to give it weight, that's your privilege.



> for people who have money.


This is pure snobbery -- a bogus distinction between "riders" and "people who have money." All good boards cost a pretty penny these days. In fact, boards manufactured domestically typically cost somewhat _more_ than those made overseas.


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## freshy (Nov 18, 2009)

enayes said:


> the USA isn't god when it comes to manufacturing, great products are made all over the world


Ok, country of origin...I'm not trying to say USA is the best, but they happen to be a country that makes the best snowboards IMO



JoeR said:


> This factor conceivably could make a difference, but it would have to be demonstrated empirically, through quality studies. I wouldn't take it on faith.


If you don't snowboard how would you know what can be improved upon in the design of a snowboard?





JoeR said:


> This factor can make a difference from a macroeconomic perspective, but not necessarily to the board itself. However, if you choose to give it weight, that's your privilege.


Are you insane? China is known for using the cheapest and most unsafe compounds around.
Name me one other company that puts as much research and development with into their materials while having a concern for environmentally safe products as libtech. Genetically altered trees, top sheets made from beans, basalt made from volcanic rock instead of fiberglass...I can keep going on, go look at libtechs website if you care to learn more. But please don't try and tell me anything made in China can compare to something like that.




JoeR said:


> This is pure snobbery -- a bogus distinction between "riders" and "people who have money." All good boards cost a pretty penny these days. In fact, boards manufactured domestically typically cost somewhat _more_ than those made overseas.


A person who thinks of snowboarding as more than a hobby will most likely not buy the cheapest board one can find at a sports chain store, but will buy at a boardshop that has a higher end product. 
Where as someone who is in it for a little fun in the winter won't care about the latest and greatest technology, and will most likely buy from a big chain with cheap prices from staff who know next to nothing about the sport. 

Boards manufactured domestically, particularly one made by hand obviously will cost more. Paying a worker a decent wage with benefits will of course make the price of a board higher as opposed to paying next to nothing for manufacturing and materials overseas.
Personally I would rather support a snowboard company who hires people who like to snowboard and gives them a good wage and good working conditions. 
You think you will get the same quality of board from a factory in China built by people earning next to nothing with shit working conditions even if they had the exact same materials as the domestic company?


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## Hodgepodge (Dec 9, 2010)

freshy said:


> Ok, country of origin...I'm not trying to say USA is the best, but they happen to be a country that makes the best snowboards IMO
> 
> 
> If you don't snowboard how would you know what can be improved upon in the design of a snowboard?
> ...


This is excellent.

and mervin FTW.. or anything USA frankly (NS, Smokin, Jones...)


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## linvillegorge (Jul 6, 2009)

For my money:

1. Never Summer
2. Smokin'


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## thetraveler (Feb 24, 2010)

Hodgepodge said:


> This is excellent.
> 
> and mervin FTW.. or anything USA frankly (NS, Smokin, Jones...)


LOL. Do you even know where Jones do their manufacturing?


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## JoeR (Oct 30, 2010)

freshy said:


> If you don't snowboard how would you know what can be improved upon in the design of a snowboard?


Boards are not _designed_ by factory workers. All big board companies have professional design staffs and test rider teams, regardless of where the boards are actually manufactured.



> Are you insane?


Nice rabid argument. Good start.



> China is known for using the cheapest and most unsafe compounds around.


Snowboards are not made _by_ "China" -- they are made in Chinese factories according to specs prepared by the snowboard companies' design and production managers.

You probably have some Chinese-made snowboarding equipment in your home, such as bindings, boots, outerware, etc. Aren't you worried about all the "unsafe compounds" to which you may be exposed?

By the way, why is the hate directed exclusively at China? What about all the board manufacturing that is outsourced to Europe?



> Name me one other company that puts as much research and development with into their materials while having a concern for environmentally safe products as libtech. Genetically altered trees, top sheets made from beans, basalt made from volcanic rock instead of fiberglass...I can keep going on, go look at libtechs website if you care to learn more. But please don't try and tell me anything made in China can compare to something like that.


There's nothing wrong with being a LibTech fan, but there's no need to swallow the hype whole. Every top board company has its own slate of tech innovations and interesting design tweaks. Believing that one company is miles ahead of all the others means moving from being a fan to a fanboy. 



> A person who thinks of snowboarding as more than a hobby will most likely not buy the cheapest board one can find at a sports chain store, but will buy at a boardshop that has a higher end product.
> Where as someone who is in it for a little fun in the winter won't care about the latest and greatest technology, and will most likely buy from a big chain with cheap prices from staff who know next to nothing about the sport.


Now you're contradicting yourself. First you said the problem was that the Chinese-made boards were for "people with money" rather than real riders. Now you're saying that the Chinese-made boards are sold cheaply to casual buyers, and it's the real riders who buy the more expensive gear in fancy shops. So I guess the legit riders must be the "people with money"?

There's nothing wrong with preferring to support domestic manufacturing, but there's no need to conjure up unwarranted generalizations to justify yourself. According to you, it's inevitable that K2 & Ride boards will be of terrible quality, because of the curse of Chinese manufacturing. But since we can all see and test those boards for ourselves, the argument falls apart.


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## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

freshy said:


> Ok, country of origin...I'm not trying to say USA is the best, but they happen to be a country that makes the best snowboards IMO
> 
> 
> If you don't snowboard how would you know what can be improved upon in the design of a snowboard?
> ...


Who says that the people making them are also the designers? The original Machete, a Ride made in China, went through more than 40 prototypes before the Ride board designer was satisfied. Is that enough R&D for you? And if you wanna talk Eco, Arbor. They win. How about Monument, they are using bamboo sidewalls. Have you been to any of these Chinese factories? I haven't. I get the feeling everyone thinks of the shitty working conditions that Nike got into trouble with in the 80's. Outsourcing is about money, yes, but it works because paying someone $40,000 in India equates to an American getting paid twice that or more for the same job and equal quality. The Chinese factories are not the sweatshops you think they are. Are they as Eco as Mervin, no. But do you think the entirety of the Megacorp of Quiksilver is that Eco? Its not, being part of Quik puts them on the same level as Ride and K2. So when it really comes down to it, Mervin is no better than the rest. You want something better, Arbor, Signal, Monument or even NS.


Do I care? No. Where do my company opinions come from? How the product rides. BTX is shit. It needs to die. The only center reverse that has worked in my opinion is Arbor. Other than that you need Camber in the tips. Mervins are heavy, often have less pop than their competitors, they cut corners with non full wrapped edges to boost profits (I don't want to have to baby my shit to make it last a full season), and they rely more on hype to sell their product than anything else. You name any Mervin and I can name a small company board that is either cheaper or rides just as well or better.


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## freshy (Nov 18, 2009)

JoeR said:


> Now you're contradicting yourself. First you said the problem was that the Chinese-made boards were for "people with money" rather than real riders. Now you're saying that the Chinese-made boards are sold cheaply to casual buyers, and it's the real riders who buy the more expensive gear in fancy shops. So I guess the legit riders must be the "people with money"?
> 
> There's nothing wrong with preferring to support domestic manufacturing, but there's no need to conjure up unwarranted generalizations to justify yourself. According to you, it's inevitable that K2 & Ride boards will be of terrible quality, because of the curse of Chinese manufacturing. But since we can all see and test those boards for ourselves, the argument falls apart.


Maybe I should have said average consumer instead of "people with money". What I meant with my comment was that most companies cater to the average consumer, not the hardcore snowboarder. I'm not saying K2 and Ride are terrible quality, but I am saying the quality of Mervin and Never Summer boards are better.
Lets say there was no money in selling snowboards, there would be a few companys that do it for the love of the sport, Burton, Never Summer and the Mervin companies I believe would still be around. All the ski companies like K2 and Rossignal would have never bothered in the first place, they are only in it for the money. Ride? who knows, I don't think so.

China is just an easy target. Could just as easily be India or Indonesia or whatever. Are you trying to argue that boards made by hand by people who love to snowboard will be of worse quality than those made overseas by the average factory worker or a machine?


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## JoeR (Oct 30, 2010)

freshy said:


> Lets say there was no money in selling snowboards, there would be a few companys that do it for the love of the sport


Love of the sport can't defy economics, unfortunately. Soon enough, there would be no companies.



> Are you trying to argue that boards made by hand by people who love to snowboard will be of worse quality than those made overseas by the average factory worker or a machine?


No, it seems that the only person who's argued that some boards are worse than others because of where they're manufactured has been you. I've never said anything about some boards being inferior; I merely stated that the fact that some boards are made in China does not necessarily mean that they are not as good as domestically manufactured boards.


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## thetraveler (Feb 24, 2010)

freshy said:


> Maybe I should have said average consumer instead of "people with money". What I meant with my comment was that most companies cater to the average consumer, not the hardcore snowboarder. I'm not saying K2 and Ride are terrible quality, but I am saying the quality of Mervin and Never Summer boards are better.
> Lets say there was no money in selling snowboards, there would be a few companys that do it for the love of the sport, Burton, Never Summer and the Mervin companies I believe would still be around. All the ski companies like K2 and Rossignal would have never bothered in the first place, they are only in it for the money. Ride? who knows, I don't think so.
> 
> China is just an easy target. Could just as easily be India or Indonesia or whatever. Are you trying to argue that boards made by hand by people who love to snowboard will be of worse quality than those made overseas by the average factory worker or a machine?


You don't know what you're talking about.

"Hand made" - what do you think that even means?

Companies mainly (read almost 100%) exist for the love of profit no matter what their marketing department will have you believe. That is the purpose of a company - make profit. Otherwise they'd be charities. I doon't see Burton, Never Summer or Mervin giving any boards away for free. What do you think some of these founding fathers of snowboarding had envisioned when they started manufacturing/producing snowboards? I'll tell you - creating a snow sport as big as skiing and becoming the K2s and Rossignols of that new sport.

Ride is owned by K2. 

Give some examples of boards from Never Summer and Mervin that are better quality than Ride and K2 and say why. Bear in mind they should be in the same price bracket.


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## freshy (Nov 18, 2009)

Nivek said:


> Have you been to any of these Chinese factories? I haven't.





Nivek said:


> The Chinese factories are not the sweatshops you think they are.


Suddenly you know what there like? 


C2 does have camber in the tips. 
Mervins are among the lightest boards out there. I havent ridden every Lib Tech but my Dark Series has more pop than any board I have ever ridden. Even in the 90's Lib's were the lightest and strongest with the most pop because of the rib tech technology. They have since improved on that technology making their boards even lighter, stronger and with more pop. Why would they make them worse? 

Where are you coming up with these so called facts of yours?

Actually Mervin does not wrap the edges around because you don't need edges on the tip and tail, not having an edge on the tips wont make your board any weaker, it will make it harder to fix if you damage your nose or tail and add extra weight. 
They don't have tip to tail wood cores because they are not necessary, in fact they have plastic tips because that is the most likely spot to get damaged, so if you smoke a rock your board is easily reparable.


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## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

I do know what hand made means. There is far less difference in Mervins hand made and completely automated. Omatic put it best on their sidewalls. "hand made by expensive machines". The beauty of saying hand made is that you only have to have someone do one thing by hand to make that distinction. 

I never said I knew what they are like, but I think everyone will agree that one can say they aren't sweatshops. That's illegal.

Since when has Mervin ever been the lighest? Great, the Dark Series is light, you paid over $650 for it. Good job. It has the most pop? have you ridden a DH hybridrize? I have. Mervins pop comes from stiffness, I don't know why anyone would want to have to throw their whole bodyweight into a board for pop.

Was I talking about C2? No. I said BTX.

Why is it only Rome seems to be beating Lib in the delam department if the unwrapped edges don't make a durability issue?


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## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

If you're saying that the factories overseas are less quality because the people making the stuff don't love snowboarding you're implying that the individual has some impact on the construction of the board. Yet you then say that they aren't handmade and Mervins are. If overseas aren't handmade than it doesn't matter who they employ. Which one do you want? They're automated, meaning yes, the quality IS higher. A machine is much more accurate than a human, period.


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## Qball (Jun 22, 2010)

freshy said:


> Suddenly you know what there like?
> 
> 
> C2 does have camber in the tips.
> ...


Most modern boards and ski have abs or ptex tips, it's part of the basic construction. Bullshit on the non full wrapped edges, the only reason to not fully wrap is because it is more difficult to do. Fully wrapped edges provides more protection, period, with the only draw being slightly more weight.


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## freshy (Nov 18, 2009)

thetraveler said:


> You don't know what you're talking about.
> 
> "Hand made" - what do you think that even means?


I think it means human hands are doing something to the board during the production instead of being made completely by a machine. I know machines are involved but for the most part a person is applying resin by hand, a person is cutting and grinding down the board to it's final shape once it comes out of the press, a person is using a drill press to make the insert holes. A person can spot any flaws in a board when they are making them by hand.



thetraveler said:


> Companies mainly (read almost 100%) exist for the love of profit no matter what their marketing department will have you believe. That is the purpose of a company - make profit. Otherwise they'd be charities. I doon't see Burton, Never Summer or Mervin giving any boards away for free. What do you think some of these founding fathers of snowboarding had envisioned when they started manufacturing/producing snowboards? I'll tell you - creating a snow sport as big as skiing and becoming the K2s and Rossignols of that new sport.


I know what your saying and I'm not so naive to think they would do it for free. But those companies started because they could make a buck doing something that they loved to do, and did it so others could have as much fun as they were having sliding sideways down hills covered in snow. 
If they were only interested in becoming millionaires there would have been easier ways to do that.





thetraveler said:


> Give some examples of boards from Never Summer and Mervin that are better quality than Ride and K2 and say why. Bear in mind they should be in the same price bracket.


How about how Never Summer takes their factory seconds and destroys them so there are no flawed boards of there's around.


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## freshy (Nov 18, 2009)

Qball said:


> Most modern boards and ski have abs or ptex tips, it's part of the basic construction. Bullshit on the non full wrapped edges, the only reason to not fully wrap is because it is more difficult to do. Fully wrapped edges provides more protection, period, with the only draw being slightly more weight.


You have no idea what your talking about!


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## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

freshy said:


> A person can spot any flaws in a board when they are making them by hand.


Then why do handmade boards sometimes have problems with inserts matching discs and machine made ones almost never do?


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## Qball (Jun 22, 2010)

freshy said:


> You have no idea what your talking about!


Please enlighten me then. Most boards have sidewalls and tipspacers last time i checked.


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## freshy (Nov 18, 2009)

Qball said:


> Please enlighten me then. Most boards have sidewalls and tipspacers last time i checked.











Here is an image of one of rides cores, tip to tail wood. All I am saying is if you hit a rock hard enough head on with your nose of the board to get to the core you have just destroyed your board. Same accident on a Lib and you can repair the board.


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## freshy (Nov 18, 2009)

Nivek said:


> Then why do handmade boards sometimes have problems with inserts matching discs and machine made ones almost never do?


I have noticed that on my Lib, but my bindings still attach perfectly fine. Have you seen one where you couldn't mount the binders or something?


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## Qball (Jun 22, 2010)

I see. So mervin's cores are blunted or are the built kind of like this?










I find Ride slackcountry's tips to be pretty weak compared to my NS, but I think they make them so thin to reduce weight.


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## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

freshy said:


> I have noticed that on my Lib, but my bindings still attach perfectly fine. Have you seen one where you couldn't mount the binders or something?


I have. Not with bindings that use slotted discs obviously, though I've seen it get tight even then.


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## freshy (Nov 18, 2009)

here is a stack of cores from mervin.


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## Phenom (Dec 15, 2007)

Burton is the best.


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## thetraveler (Feb 24, 2010)

Phenom said:


> Burton is the best.


we've already got enough ridiculous threads on this forum. go shit-stir somewhere else. bump the "burton quality control" thread if there isn't anything else going


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## Phenom (Dec 15, 2007)

thetraveler said:


> we've already got enough ridiculous threads on this forum. go shit-stir somewhere else. bump the "burton quality control" thread if there isn't anything else going


If I share my opinion that Burton is the best, it automatically means that I'm stirring up shit?

A little presumptuous, wouldn't you say?


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## JoeR (Oct 30, 2010)

Qball said:


> I find Ride slackcountry's tips to be pretty weak compared to my NS, but I think they make them so thin to reduce weight.


Yes, Ride calls that "Thin Con," and it is a weight-saving feature.


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## Lstarrasl (Mar 26, 2010)

Phenom said:


> If I share my opinion that Burton is the best, it automatically means that I'm stirring up shit?
> 
> A little presumptuous, wouldn't you say?


thats what you were doing though


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## Phenom (Dec 15, 2007)

Lstarrasl said:


> thats what you were doing though


o rly? My signature says otherwise


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## thetraveler (Feb 24, 2010)

Phenom said:


> If I share my opinion that Burton is the best, it automatically means that I'm stirring up shit?
> 
> A little presumptuous, wouldn't you say?


take it in jest, as it was intended. i noticed the burtons in your sig. just trying to get a little banter going. hence the smiley face on my original post. i actually think burton are right up there at the top with a few others. these "which board/binding/boot/company is best" threads are also subjective so we can't all really agree there is THE ONE at the end of the day.


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## Argo (Feb 25, 2010)

phenom, I dont even see a signature for you.... lol

For my money here is where I have ventured from and to in my boards. 

First year boarding purchases(5 years ago)...
Me - Flow 164 w/flow bindings, Some burton board w/ burton bindings
Wife - Rossignal Zena 139
Daughter - neversummer legacy
Son - Ride kids board.....

My two boards both were super heavy and only lasted me about 30 days of riding, 2 seasons at beginner level. My wife still has her zena, she still has it and rides it sometimes. My daughter still rides her neversummer on occasion, no issues with that board. My son outgrew his Ride but it is still in almost new condition.

I picked up a cheap LTD board with some new flow bindings and flow boots for $350, ebay package deal.... The board is a 159W, I used it for 2 seasons at beginner/intermediate level, it is still in good condition with no problems. I still use the bindings and boots too.

I got my son some cheap board that had Wolverine/xman on it because he liked/likes it alot(he was 8 at the time of purchase). HE still has this board and still rides it 2 years later. He has done high cascades camp with it, hitting the park heavy and doing jumps up to 20'. This board is like a tank for some reason.... lol. I paid $75 on sale for it..... 

I got my daughter a new Neversummer this past winter, her old one is still in fair condition and rideable after 4.5 seasons. She has also been to high cascades with it but is not as good/advanced as my son. 

This season I started it with a new board, I got a smokin snowboards KT-22. It is super light, has the clash rocker and magna traction. I love this thing, it really brought my riding level up a notch to where I can comfortably carve down a heavy blue and s-turn down blacks.... Their warranty is awesome, 3 years full warranty and 3 years woops warranty(means you can break it in half yourself, send it in and pay cost for a new one). I will be riding smokin boards for a while because the service from Jay and Quintin has been second to none. I got one for my niece last year and they both took the effort to find the exact board I needed in some warehouse across the country, it was the last one in the country for sale at any of their retailers or in their stock......

My wife and son this year got new Rome boards. They are very light weight, have the rocker and they are in love with the boards. The technology also had a big impact on my wifes riding helping her to get down a blue s-turning now. She could only ride heel side before and falling leaf..... She is NOT in any way an athletic person other than she gets on a treadmill or walks every day. She is super tiny and never played a sport at all, she tried snowboarding and fell in love 4 years ago, lol. The first year she just chilled and watched us......

The boards that were new this year, Rome x 2, smokin and never summer all still look like new after 15 days of use so far riding 8-9 hours each day.... I have one top sheet gash from some fucking retard that couldnt keep control in the lift line of 6 people.......

All in all my money goes to these boards and in this order.....

1) tied with neversummer and smokin snowboards, hard to pick a winner.
2) Rome
3) Venture - I have looked at their boards alot but could not find one my size to buy. I will be buying one of their boards for powder. I want a 168 W, they have the widest wide board made.
4) mervin boards, likely Lib Tech Dark would be a board I would get, a larger wide board for powder if I could not find what I wanted in a timely manner from the prior 4 companies listed.... Their pricing is just super high in comparison to comprable products....
5) K2, Rossignol, Burton.... these would all fall into the same category but likely would not be purchased because the other 5 companies have so much to offer....
6) any of the cheap ass boards that are on ebay for $400 or less package deals, usually I get these because they come with good bindings and boots that would cost that much alone without the board.... I have a ton of cheap boards with decent bindings and boots laying around that we use for people that come along and board with us.... I have about 8 or 9 spare set ups. I am going to start making a couple of benches......


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## Lstarrasl (Mar 26, 2010)

Phenom said:


> o rly? My signature says otherwise


Oh I thought you were joking. I can't see your signature.


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## SilverSurfer (Sep 27, 2010)

freshy said:


> Here is an image of one of rides cores, tip to tail wood. All I am saying is if you hit a rock hard enough head on with your nose of the board to get to the core you have just destroyed your board. Same accident on a Lib and you can repair the board.


freshy = Mervin Fanboy

I've owned two Gnu's, both regular camber. They were by far the heaviest and fastest boards to lose their camber (dead board). Also on my 2008 Gnu at the tip on my toe edge has started to peel out. It is an easy repair that I have had to fix several times, but in my opinion not wrapping the edge is dumb. Think of the edge at the tip and tail as bumpers. I prefer to have a metal bumper instead of a plastic one.

I don't know why you think a tip to tail wood board cant have the tip or tail repaired. You are wrong.


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## ClevelandSB (Dec 4, 2010)

it amazes me how much everyone here seems to be willing to give up long term durability for a few oz in weight savings. I mean seriously by the time you strap whatever binding you have onto the board, your boots, outerwear, and whatever you ate for breakfast a few oz is going to be 100% unnoticable. Despite what all these manufacturers want to hype up the "less is more" idea when it comes to weight, they are really doing themselves a favor by cutting down on material costs while simultaneously convincing customers they're getting a better product. I'll take more robust construction and a few more ounces ANY DAY so that I can ride my $500 board for another 2 seasons. 

And the guy glowing about lib tech's metalless, woodless tail and tip "technology", I've seen enough 2 month old libs that look like they just went through a garbage disposal to never even consider buying one.


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## Lstarrasl (Mar 26, 2010)

Why is everyone arguing over this?

Who gives a shit.

I'm riding a Mervin till I die.
You ride a Burton, NS, Arbor ect. I don't give a shit. 

If people ask me, I'm telling them to get a Mervin board.


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## ClevelandSB (Dec 4, 2010)

Lstarrasl said:


> Why is everyone arguing over this?
> 
> Who gives a shit.
> 
> ...


its because you're a howard stern fan

O&A for life


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## Lstarrasl (Mar 26, 2010)

ClevelandSB said:


> its because you're a howard stern fan
> 
> O&A for life


Are you really a fan of O&A? I've never listened.


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## ClevelandSB (Dec 4, 2010)

Lstarrasl said:


> Are you really a fan of O&A? I've never listened.


yeah I had XM awhile back and I really liked it. I don't have XM now though so I just listen to their "best of" tapes on youtube


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## little devil (Aug 18, 2009)

N.S. hands down!

2nd to me is smokin. Offering the broken board dealy thing. It would be great to see all companies do this.


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## surfinsnow (Feb 4, 2010)

WHOisDAN said:


> Subjective
> 
> Everyone has their own opinion.
> 
> The top five snowboard brands that provide performance and durability - Yahoo! Sports


Good to see Never Summer at #3. My 09 Titan is the best board I've ever ridden, and I was stoked to buy it from a US company, not a mass-produced Burton POS stamped out in a Chinese prison camp. Read the reasons why Burton is #2...basically because they turn out a brazillion boards for every demographic. The mini-review doesn't say anything about Burton quality, and only mentions their weird binding set-up almost as an afterthought.

Personally, I went with NS because of their reputation, and because they're built in the USA by real snowboarders, not mass-produced in China. I would never buy a Burton for the same reason I would never buy a Ford Taurus; I don't want the same thing everyone else has, and just because they sell a fuckload of them doesn't mean they're good. After all, this is the same country that like Survivor and American Idol. Popular doesn't equal quality.


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## surfinsnow (Feb 4, 2010)

Nivek said:


> ...paying someone $40,000 in India equates to an American getting paid twice that...


The only person making $40,000 in India is the Prime Minister. Indian workers get paid in cents, not dollars, same as Chinese workers. That's why cheap-ass American companies move their manufacturing there. And that's why you get prison-labor boards made out of ground up bone meal, lead and pressboard.


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## Phenom (Dec 15, 2007)

Lstarrasl said:


> Oh I thought you were joking. I can't see your signature.


why the hell is my signature invisible to some of you? I can see it, thetraveler can see it. Display settings?


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## little devil (Aug 18, 2009)

Phenom said:


> Display settings?


 Yeppers!

If you come onto the board without being signed in you can see everyones sigs. After signing in you cant, unless you fucks around with your user CP to allow you to contiue to see sigs.


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## Sincraft (Sep 6, 2010)

Huy said:


> Lib Tech and K2 boards are my favorite


I agree with k2, at least for entry-mid level boarder


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## Phenom (Dec 15, 2007)

little devil said:


> Yeppers!
> 
> If you come onto the board without being signed in you can see everyones sigs. After signing in you cant, unless you fucks around with your user CP to allow you to contiue to see sigs.


So then you're saying it's not my settings make it invisible, it's theirs. amirite?


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## onji (Jan 28, 2011)

Rowenta hands down, best boards I've ever used. Lightweight aluminium core, white finish, integrated laundry rack, etc.


http://www.rowentausa.com/rowenta/All+products/Linen+care/Ironing+boards/


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## sepdxsnwbrdr (Feb 5, 2010)

For me it's Smokin.

My girlfriend just bought a vixen and I've been on a big wig since last spring. As an unemployed/underemployed carpenter I REALLY appreciate what they are doing. After going through this recession as a craftsman...and subsequently watching our family cabinet business(30+ years of about a dozen employees) fold, I have an enormous appreciation for what they have built. 

I sent an email to smokin a few weeks ago to ask a few questions and beg for some stickers. Jay Quentin himself responded to my email and answered my questions. I doubt Jake Burton is doing any actual customer service for his company.

3 year warranty and fully wrapped magne FTW


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## cjs2002 (Nov 15, 2010)

summary of thread:


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## bcasey (Jan 19, 2011)

Lstarrasl said:


> Why is everyone arguing over this?
> 
> Who gives a shit.
> 
> ...


+1

People will just rep what they own..


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## sepdxsnwbrdr (Feb 5, 2010)

bcasey said:


> +1
> 
> *People will just rep what they own..*


Wrong. I own many things that suck, and wouldn't "rep" or purchase again. I hate my Bern helmet. The audio broke the 1st day and I can't wear anything but oakley a-frames with it. This is only one of many examples.

When something sucks, I pass along the info.

When something rocks, I pass along the info.


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## charlie_hustle7 (Dec 20, 2010)

Im going to throw in my two cents as everyone else. 

Arbor i believe will have to get the title as the most environmentally friendly/geared company. 

Burton should get respect from everyone that snowboards for their innovations and contributions to snowboarding. If it wasn't for them there surely would not be half of these companies out there making money because people would not be aware, care, or be involved in snowboarding because they created and still to this day help sustain snowboarding as a whole with their advertising and marketing. 

Quality-How many of you own Chrysler's? Why would i ask? Because they are perfect example of USA made product that has terrible build quality, resale, and etc... However, i do believe as a American we need to support all the USA companies to sustain our nations economy, god knows we need it! The cheap boards that Burton, LTD, and etc.. make need to be made by somebody for the individuals that are "fair weather" fans of winter sports. Not everybody needs or wants the best of the best. So there is no reason to blast them because someone got to do it. 

Jones snowboard company-How in the hell can you name a first year company one of the top 5 companies in specifically durability? Performance maybe... I understand they are using existing tech from other companies, but really the durability thing kills me. No way could you put them in the top ten since there R&D time in years could be counted on one hand, realistically more like months! That had to be a paid endorsement! Nobody knows how those boards will fare after years or seasons of use and abuse. 

BTW- I ride Arbor currently, i love its graphics, durability, reputation, resale value, and of course its performance!


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## Lstarrasl (Mar 26, 2010)

I have to give props to Burton today. I called the warranty department about my cracking Unidisks on my binding plates. No questions asked, the guy said he would ship me out two new ones with hardware. :thumbsup: Sweet, now I can sell them.


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## cjs2002 (Nov 15, 2010)

charlie_hustle7 said:


> Im going to throw in my two cents as everyone else.
> Quality-How many of you own Chrysler's? Why would i ask? Because they are perfect example of USA made product that has terrible build quality, resale, and etc... However, i do believe as a American we need to support all the USA companies to sustain our nations economy, god knows we need it! The cheap boards that Burton, LTD, and etc.. make need to be made by somebody for the individuals that are "fair weather" fans of winter sports. Not everybody needs or wants the best of the best. So there is no reason to blast them because someone got to do it.


this point is completely moot, as Burton's lower and mid level models are comparable in price to a company like Neversummer and Lib, who produce arguably the highest quality snowboards money can buy.


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## Lstarrasl (Mar 26, 2010)

charlie_hustle7 said:


> Im going to throw in my two cents as everyone else.
> 
> Arbor i believe will have to get the title as the most environmentally friendly/geared company.
> 
> Burton should get respect from everyone that snowboards for their innovations and contributions to snowboarding. If it wasn't for them there surely would not be half of these companies out there making money because people would not be aware, care, or be involved in snowboarding because they created and still to this day help sustain snowboarding as a whole with their advertising and marketing.



They lose respect, why don't Terje and Craig Kelly still have pro models? I know Kelly died, but give his proceeds to his kid.

When I'm 90 Terje, Lynn, Rice, Sanders, and Kelly should still all have pro models.


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## charlie_hustle7 (Dec 20, 2010)

cjs2002 said:


> this point is completely moot, as Burton's lower and mid level models are comparable in price to a company like Neversummer and Lib, who produce arguably the highest quality snowboards money can buy.


Is that right? Im not sure where you're shopping but you CANNOT find an NEW ADULT SIZE mens Neversummer or any Libtech for less than $400. most are priced $450 to $550 or even more. Burton offers numerous models for under $400 and many in the $200 to $300 price range all day long anywhere, net, store, shop. Please find me multiple models made by Lib tech and Neversummer for those price points, because i would love to have one of each! 

your move cjs2002...


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## charlie_hustle7 (Dec 20, 2010)

Lstarrasl said:


> They lose respect, why don't Terje and Craig Kelly still have pro models? I know Kelly died, but give his proceeds to his kid.
> 
> When I'm 90 Terje, Lynn, Rice, Sanders, and Kelly should still all have pro models.




Yeah cant really argue with that kinda being fucked up, but who knows. We don't know if they lost the licensing rights or if the families chose not to further promote with Burton.. As for the others the same could be said as to maybe they have other reasons why Burton does not carry pro models for them. My only guess is they are no longer competing pros so unless they wanted or promoted a tribute/specialty board then that's why they no longer have current models in production. I totally agree they should come out with a tribute for kelly and send the proceeds to his kids!!


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## cjs2002 (Nov 15, 2010)

wow, this was really hard. i had to go to the burton website. struggle #1. they list 36 men's boards. Out of the 36, i counted 8 that have a retail price below $399.95. that was struggle #2. I did some division, and then subtraction, and netted out with 80% of burton's models falling into the $400+ range. After my intense calculations, I then took a closer look at the models that were listed below $399.95. If you think these are the models that most "fair-weather" riders purchase, you are mistaken. These are the lowest level models that burton offers, and far from the most popular, which I believe was the basis for your original argument (that fair weather riders will buy $200-$300 boards). I'm sure some do, but let's not act like that's the norm. Out of the 6 boards on burton's site that are designated with the "most popular" tag, 100% of those are boards in the $400+ price range. My argument is that burton's mid level models are comparable in price to lib and NS. I stand by my argument.


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## JoeR (Oct 30, 2010)

charlie_hustle7 said:


> Quality-How many of you own Chrysler's? Why would i ask? Because they are perfect example of USA made product that has terrible build quality, resale, and etc... However, i do believe as a American we need to support all the USA companies to sustain our nations economy, god knows we need it!


I've owned several foreign and several domestic cars in my life. All three American cars have been from brands that subsequently went out of business: Eagle (a Chrysler nameplate), Pontiac, and Mercury. I'm trying to develop U.S. brand loyalty, but they won't let me.


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## charlie_hustle7 (Dec 20, 2010)

JoeR said:


> I've owned several foreign and several domestic cars in my life. All three American cars have been from brands that subsequently went out of business: Eagle (a Chrysler nameplate), Pontiac, and Mercury. I'm trying to develop U.S. brand loyalty, but they won't let me.


Yeah i feel you JoeR..i went Chevy, to Pontiac, to Toyota, back to Chevy, then to a Madza, and now im hooked on BMWs for life. Still hard to beat a good ole' Chevy Tahoe or truck tho..


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## charlie_hustle7 (Dec 20, 2010)

cjs2002 said:


> wow, this was really hard. i had to go to the burton website. struggle #1. they list 36 men's boards. Out of the 36, i counted 8 that have a retail price below $399.95. that was struggle #2. I did some division, and then subtraction, and netted out with 80% of burton's models falling into the $400+ range. After my intense calculations, I then took a closer look at the models that were listed below $399.95. If you think these are the models that most "fair-weather" riders purchase, you are mistaken. These are the lowest level models that burton offers, and far from the most popular, which I believe was the basis for your original argument (that fair weather riders will buy $200-$300 boards). I'm sure some do, but let's not act like that's the norm. Out of the 6 boards on burton's site that are designated with the "most popular" tag, 100% of those are boards in the $400+ price range. My argument is that burton's mid level models are comparable in price to lib and NS. I stand by my argument.


You may be partially right on mid level boards, but as you conveniently failed to mentioned and changed to just "mid" not "low to mid" is that libtech and never summer don't offer any affordable, entry level boards at all. i would not recommend anyone that is new or even partially new to the sport unless they just have a pocket full of cash to drop $400 + on a deck only, i think most would agree. In addition everyone should know that it doesn't matter what you are purchasing that snowboards, electronics, or whatever that if you go to a manufacturers website your going to get raped on the price. Almost everyone of those boards can be bought for 20 to 30% less at any other retailer, online, or shop. 

To make it clear i love neversummer boards and libtech for the serious rider or to a person of means, they should be a top choice. But you can barley get those boards on ebay used for less than 200 or 300 dollars for the deck alone that's in decent to good shape. Also for the average joe on the street or fair weather fan most have no clue who neversummer or lib tech is..you just cant compare burton the brand to those smaller companies. Best example i have is say NBA. For those who are fans, follow their team, or just watch occasionally have no clue prolly who players like Zach Randolph are. He averages 20 pts and 13 rebounds a game, good for 20th and 3rd in the league respectively. Not many players that can average a double, double much less average over 20 a game. Or even Monta Ellis that is the leagues 4th leading scorer. Im willing to bet over half or better couldn't tell you what team they play for, what college they went to, or even what race they were. Which gets back to my original statement that these companies are offered the ability to make, run, and profit in a business that was built, and sustained off Burton's back.


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## Leo (Nov 24, 2009)

JoeR said:


> I've owned several foreign and several domestic cars in my life. All three American cars have been from brands that subsequently went out of business: Eagle (a Chrysler nameplate), Pontiac, and Mercury. I'm trying to develop U.S. brand loyalty, but they won't let me.


Eagle = Mitsubishi parts and yes, they are out now.

Pontiac and Mercury are still alive and kicking.

Did you mean Plymouth? Another Chrysler owned defunct brand. Chrysler did a lot with Mitsubishi parts for a while. Hyundai too I think.

Some Saturn cars were DaeWoo.

Ford still uses Mazda platforms.

My point to all of this? When it comes to automobiles, it's very tough to purchase a 100% American made one. Remember, just because it's a foreign brand does not mean it wasn't built/assembled here. Honda, Mitsu, Mazda, Toyota, etc... all have plants here. That means they also employ Americans.

Totally different in the snowboarding world. Brands like Never Summer and Lib Tech are 100% American made (even the machines?). You're not going to see a Never Summer board that uses a Japanese snowboard brand's molds.


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## nerve (Feb 14, 2008)

I own both a 2001 Burton Custom(retired) and 2008 Never Summer Evo. I love both boards equally. Loved my Custom for riding all day long and I'd gladly buy another custom any day of the week. I equally love my Evo (which i purchased shorter) for the park. Love the softer side and the response. I'm currently only riding the Evo and considering a new freeride/large mountain board. Still looking at new customs but the price just puts me off.

I'd gladly buy a NS or Burton. As most people said, higher end burtons are definitely great boards.


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## JoeR (Oct 30, 2010)

charlie_hustle7 said:


> To make it clear i love neversummer boards and libtech for the serious rider or to a person of means, they should be a top choice. But you can barley get those boards on ebay used for less than 200 or 300 dollars for the deck alone that's in decent to good shape.


I don't think there's any question that these are relatively expensive brands. And MSRP is only part of the equation. If you want a mid- to high-end board from some big manufacturers, such as Burton, K2, or Ride, there's a decent chance that you'll be able to find a new one for a 20-30% discount in the off-season. That makes these brands potentially much cheaper than a brand like Never Summer, which as its fans proclaim, limits production so much that almost everything sells out at the list prices and unused boards on sale are hard to find.


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## JoeR (Oct 30, 2010)

Leo said:


> Eagle = Mitsubishi parts and yes, they are out now.
> 
> Pontiac and Mercury are still alive and kicking.


Huh? No Pontiacs have been made since 2009. All Pontiac dealer franchises were terminated as of Oct. 2010. You can still get service from GM, but it's a dead brand. Mercury production also has completely ceased. When the existing inventory goes, the dealerships will close unless they also handle Lincoln or another brand. I will show you the sad letter Ford sent me if I can find it.


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## Phenom (Dec 15, 2007)

sepdxsnwbrdr said:


> For me it's Smokin.
> 
> My girlfriend just bought a vixen and I've been on a big wig since last spring. As an unemployed/underemployed carpenter I REALLY appreciate what they are doing. After going through this recession as a craftsman...and subsequently watching our family cabinet business(30+ years of about a dozen employees) fold, I have an enormous appreciation for what they have built.
> 
> ...


How many e-mails do you think Burton gets per day? How many e-mails do you think Smokin gets per day?

If you created the most popular and successful company (in ANY industry), would you be working a customer service position? :laugh:


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## Phenom (Dec 15, 2007)

I see automobiles have made their way into the thread.

Domestics are garbage.


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## Leo (Nov 24, 2009)

JoeR said:


> Huh? No Pontiacs have been made since 2009. All Pontiac dealer franchises were terminated as of Oct. 2010. You can still get service from GM, but it's a dead brand. Mercury production also has completely ceased. When the existing inventory goes, the dealerships will close unless they also handle Lincoln or another brand. I will show you the sad letter Ford sent me if I can find it.


Ah, I see. They just very recently phased out though. Your post putting them next to the Eagle brand made it seem like they have been gone for a while like Eagle. My mistake.


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## JoeR (Oct 30, 2010)

Leo said:


> Ah, I see. They just very recently phased out though. Your post putting them next to the Eagle brand made it seem like they have been gone for a while like Eagle. My mistake.


I may be an auto Jonah, but even I can't drive three brands out of business simultaneously. First I have to own one -- _then_ they go down the tubes.


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## ClevelandSB (Dec 4, 2010)

LAMAR all day bitches!


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## sepdxsnwbrdr (Feb 5, 2010)

Phenom said:


> How many e-mails do you think Burton gets per day? How many e-mails do you think Smokin gets per day?
> 
> If you created the most popular and successful company (in ANY industry), would you be working a customer service position? :laugh:



Thank you for making my point for me.

You can shop at Wal-Mart, I'm taking my business to Joe Main St.


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## Phenom (Dec 15, 2007)

sepdxsnwbrdr said:


> Thank you for making my point for me.
> 
> You can shop at Wal-Mart, I'm taking my business to Joe Main St.


Don't kid yourself, Joe Main St would be Joe Tycoon if he could figure out how.


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## freshy (Nov 18, 2009)

charlie_hustle7 said:


> Im going to throw in my two cents as everyone else.
> 
> Arbor i believe will have to get the title as the most environmentally friendly/geared company.
> 
> ...


As far as I can see Arbor just uses bamboo, just go look at what Lib is doing for eco crap.environMENTAL Lib Tech Snowboards 
Even their outerwear is made with recycled products, something no other snowboard company is doing as far as I know.

And I sort of agree with the car analogy. Here's my take. When autos were first being mass produced at the turn of the century the USA was miles ahead of the pack, as time went on companies like Ford had a solid rep and seemed to put profits ahead of quality and they ended up with crappy products nobody really wants. It's kind of comparable to snowboarding, it is a sport that is maybe just coming out of it's infancy, and it was the American companies that did most of the early innovating. Burton is kind of like Ford in that respect, they helped bring snowboarding to the masses and got to a point where quality started to suffer and smaller companies who were more focused on making a better board started sprouting up, and surpassing them is terms of innovations and quality.
Alright enough stoner theory.

I ride a Lib for all the same reasons you mentioned, performance, durability, graphics, reputation, resale, also because I feel like they are always innovating, and another one you never mentioned; warranty. Mervin's warranty is legendary, did you know Gnu almost went bust because in the early 90's (I believe) they had a major problem with the edges ripping out of their boards. They stayed true to their word and warrantied every single board that came in almost making them bankrupt.
I had an experience where my roof racks failed and my wife's and my boards went flying on the highway. My Lib and her Gnu both survived the ordeal unscathed but my Bent Metal binding's heelcups got bent to shit; they warrantied those even tho it was not a manufactures defect. Stuff like that just goes a long way with me.

Like someone mentioned, I am repping what I like and what I know. I know Libtech will never let me down, I have had super good luck with them in the past and I just can't say enough good stuff about them.


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## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

freshy said:


> Even their outerwear is made with recycled products, something no other snowboard company is doing as far as I know.


Bond Outerwear is 100% carbon neutral and uses all the recycled materials possible. And Holden has been using Hemp for years.


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