# Burton Launches New Step On Binding at Vail�And They Actually Look Good



## SBForum Editor (Nov 2, 2015)

*Burton Launches New Step On Binding at Vail—And They Actually Look Good*

And no, they didn't just set into a time machine and re-create the old-school step-in of the '90s. Here's the video posted on Facebook Live by Snowboarder Mag that features the designers and few Burton pros, including Terje Haakonson testing them out... 

I shared it out on Snowboarding Forum's Facebook Page:and here's the direct link to the video.


Here's a screen grab showing the three-point system, that doesn't look like any other system previously created...


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## raffertyk2 (Dec 16, 2014)

BA put out an article showing the patent last year, by the looks of this picture they stuck pretty closely to the design. Couldn't watch the video with sound yet... my boss is sitting right across from me :/

here is the link to his article
http://www.angrysnowboarder.com/is-snowboarding-ready-for-another-step-in-revolution/


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## SBForum Editor (Nov 2, 2015)

Looks like a great design and from the testers' (though mostly Burton riders) first impressions after one run, they look impressed. Might be a nice way to get first tracks in front of your friends.... Should even be able to beat the shreds riding Flows.


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## raffertyk2 (Dec 16, 2014)

From the picture the highback looks incredibly thick. Not sure though hard to see in the video. I only rode step ins once ever, but I feel like without straps response would be diminished... maybe not on carving but in the air and when buttering, less flexibility to bend the board which way you want it to go. Can anyone speak to this or against it? 

Once again very little experience with these types of bindings


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## Kenai (Dec 15, 2013)

An effective step in system inherently requires excellent boot fit. Given the widespread discussion here about proper boot fit, especially for people with wide feet, I hope Burton makes an equal effort to make a variety of good fitting boots. Hell, I suppose all I really mean is I hope they make more wide models.


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## WasabiCanuck (Apr 29, 2015)

I will wait until I see a review by someone not being paid by Burton.

They looks decent but I will hold judgement until I get more info. One possible problem I can see is my pants interfering with the heel clip but I'm used to having to get my pants out of the way of my bindings when strapping-in.

The big questions are...Will it release unintentionally? And how does the clip system hold up after say 100 uses or 1000 uses? Does it wear out? Does it ice up? I'm curious to get these kinds of questions answered.


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## SBForum Editor (Nov 2, 2015)

I agree, especially with the potential wear and tear issue. I would love to know what they're like in crash tests and how easy they are to accidentally release.

Personally, I'm a big fan of my Now Drives and have never had a problem with strapping in, but it does look like Burton has created something new and potentially exciting here for some snowboarders who value convenience over many other things.


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## Ygrene (Nov 20, 2014)

They look great but the price, wow 700 bucks for boots and bindings. A bit steep for something that's still experimental.


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## WasabiCanuck (Apr 29, 2015)

Ygrene said:


> They look great but the price, wow 700 bucks for boots and bindings. A bit steep for something that's still experimental.


Ya that's $700US about $900 or $1000CAN. Is that 5 seconds of convenience worth an extra $300 to $400? Not for me but who knows, in a couple years if the price comes down, I might change my mind.


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## hikeswithdogs (Sep 23, 2011)

Wonder how much of a pain in the ass they are on a big powder day, normally those days suck with any kind of step in technology.


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## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

My biggest concern is boots. Ride is the only brand headed in a direction with build construction to make a real effort in lengthening longevity with the Slimetongues. In my eyes for this to be a valid system I need 200 days out of the boot. Period. 

He works for Burton, but is willing to say, it's not for me, when he isn't a fan or doentike something. But the guy I know was impressed. They aren't awful. I will be pushing very hard to have these for Angry Snowboarder in the spring.


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## ajavanzado (Dec 12, 2015)

*Ride's opinion on brining back the step-ins*

shots fired lmaooo


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## scotty100 (Apr 3, 2012)

^Ride...worried much? Lol.

I applaud Burton for their innovation here...would love to try them but might wait till version 2.0 appears...let the early adopters work out the kinks first...


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## ekb18c (Mar 11, 2013)

They are only making two boots for men's and I bet none are wide. 700 bucks is a lot for boots and bindings. What if those boots are only good for 40 days? 

I agree with the amount of people not having correct sizing of boots, this could be awful. I'm assuming these are marketed to the weekend warriors that go on MLK and president days and any major holidays. 

Does that mean that people have to start using leashes again? Ugh


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## Chielsen (Oct 27, 2016)

Looks pretty interesting for casual cruising. I'm curious to see how responsive they can make these things without basicly turning your boot into a hardboot. I really can't see it work well for POW days or general backcountry/freeriding. It looks like they're really going after the casual all-mountain cruisers with these.


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## deagol (Mar 26, 2014)

call me a retro-grouch, but I don't think the straps are really a "problem" that needs to be solved. I would be paranoid about landing a jump or something and having my front foot pop out and my back foot stay in, thus having a huge lever on my back knee.


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## SnowDragon (Apr 23, 2012)

ajavanzado said:


> shots fired lmaooo


Love the guy who comments about getting snow down his backside because he sits down to strap in.
Someone should tell him to get some "big boy" pants and strap in standing up.:dry:


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## robotfood99 (Mar 19, 2016)

I like the no-compromise to integrity design approach but hard to tell from what little is shown in the video if features like highback rotation is maintained. Also, I wonder if the cleats are replaceable or serviceable. Still, it looks promising, at least far less clumsy than previous and existing step-in versions.


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## Deacon (Mar 2, 2013)

Ygrene said:


> They look great but the price, wow 700 bucks for boots and bindings. A bit steep for something that's still experimental.


I'm confused by your math. Stiff boots cost $400. Good bindings cost $300. These boots would HAVE to be stiff to work correctly, and burton isn't know to produce crappy bindings.... Sounds like the price is in line with the market.


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## Alonzo (Dec 30, 2015)

I like things I can fix/modify myself. 

Strap breaks/sucks? Swap it out. Ratchets are shitty? Swap em out. Want to put a better highback on, but the holes don't line up? Drill new holes and slap her on.

I wouldn't dare touch the locking mechanisms on those things, even if the whole set-up only cost fifty bucks - I'd be too worried about triggering a mechanical failure and tearing my other knee off. At $700 USD, you would have to be fucking crazy.


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## Alonzo (Dec 30, 2015)

If I were inclined to move in this direction, I would just pick up a pair of Phantoms and modify a pair of soft AT hardboots (probably Scarpa Aliens) and call it a day. At least the mechanism is proven and simple.


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## Jcb890 (Dec 12, 2014)

Thank you Burton for listening to all of your customers who have been clamoring for strap-less step-in bindings for which you need to purchase binding-specific boots!!

(yes, that's sarcasm)


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## Psi-Man (Aug 31, 2009)

At the risk of being lambasted, I was a big fan of the clicker back in the mid to late 90's. I forget the boot I had (some K2 model), but I got lucky, they were were comfortable and worked well for my riding style. I got nearly two seasons out of them before I broke the heel clamp off the boot on vacation in Whistler sometime in February 1998. I tried three different boots the rest of the season, but could never find a boot that worked after that and since there is nothing worse than uncomfortable boots, I had to bag the system and go back to straps. These systems are so boot dependent....so I have my doubts.


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## snowklinger (Aug 30, 2011)

Psi-Man said:


> At the risk of being lambasted, I was a big fan of the clicker back in the mid to late 90's. I forget the boot I had (some K2 model), but I got lucky, they were were comfortable and worked well for my riding style. I got nearly two seasons out of them before I broke the heel clamp off the boot on vacation in Whistler sometime in February 1998. I tried three different boots the rest of the season, but could never find a boot that worked after that and since there is nothing worse than uncomfortable boots, I had to bag the system and go back to straps. These systems are so boot dependent....so I have my doubts.


I used these as well they were on most rentals, loved em at the time, probably would not now though tbh

not closed to burtons


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## Psi-Man (Aug 31, 2009)

snowklinger said:


> I used these as well they were on most rentals, loved em at the time, probably would not now though tbh
> 
> not closed to burtons


If I recall correctly, Switch was a more popular rental here on the east coast.


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## Mig Fullbag (Apr 15, 2014)

Whether we like it or not, or if it is for us or not, the industry needs this. You are all looking at this as young and healthy riders (at least young at heart...), and whether it fits your "rad" and "core" style of riding or not. But the fact is snowboarding loses many users each year because of ease of use. After 37 years of riding, I have seen many of my friends and acquaintances go back to skiing or quit because of it for different reasons. One of them was teaching their kids. Starting them on snowboards is generally harder and more time consuming then having them start on skis. You spend your day getting yourself AND your kids in and out of bindings. Sometimes, several times per run. So some of them gave up and switched back to skis. For some others, it is health related. Repeatedly bending over at the waist with almost straight legs is nooot so good for your back. And the older you get, the harder it is. Do you know plenty of riders in their 60s, 70s or even 80s? They are pretty rare. But curiously, I see plenty of them on skis though.

I am 54, massively fat and have a bad back. It is a miracle that I can still bend over to strap in and out. I sometimes have to sit down at the end of a run because my back is killing me. I certainly wish that a step-in system that works for me will be there for when I can't strap-in anymore cause I certainly don't want to quit. Burton getting back into it is a step in the right direction. That's not how I would have done it. The release system should be integrated at the top of the boot, and not down on the heelcup. That is something the hardbooters definitely have right. You just pull a handle through you pants leg that sticks out the top of your boot, and you're out.


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## deagol (Mar 26, 2014)

Mig Fullbag said:


> Whether we like it or not, or if it is for us or not, the industry needs this. You are all looking at this as young and healthy riders (at least young at heart...), and whether it fits your "rad" and "core" style of riding or not. But the fact is snowboarding loses many users each year because of ease of use. After 37 years of riding, I have seen many of my friends and acquaintances go back to skiing or quit because of it for different reasons. One of them was teaching their kids. Starting them on snowboards is generally harder and more time consuming then having them start on skis. You spend your day getting yourself AND your kids in and out of bindings. Sometimes, several times per run. So some of them gave up and switched back to skis. For some others, it is health related. Repeatedly bending over at the waist with almost straight legs is nooot so good for your back. And the older you get, the harder it is. Do you know plenty of riders in their 60s, 70s or even 80s? They are pretty rare. But curiously, I see plenty of them on skis though.
> 
> I am 54, massively fat and have a bad back. It is a miracle that I can still bend over to strap in and out. I sometimes have to sit down at the end of a run because my back is killing me. I certainly wish that a step-in system that works for me will be there for when I can't strap-in anymore cause I certainly don't want to quit. Burton getting back into it is a step in the right direction. That's not how I would have done it. The release system should be integrated at the top of the boot, and not down on the heelcup. That is something the hardbooters definitely have right. You just pull a handle through you pants leg that sticks out the top of your boot, and you're out.



This post brings up a good point, but maybe different than expected: if it is so easy to use hard boots to get in and out of bindings as this suggests, could hard boots be the simple answer for riders who have a problem with soft-boots and highbacks?

If it really is for older riders, maybe they would be better off with hard boots anyway, since they are (presumably) less into the freestyle stuff ??


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## 70'sskater (Mar 20, 2014)

I wasted a couple seasons in the late 90's with Clickers. The bindings were good they were made by Shimano, but i couldn't find a boot that didn't give me tons of heel lift. I did get to try the new Kwickers a few yrs ago and K2 did fix the boots I was impressed there was no heel lift. But the bindings sucked, realy hard to click in, I guess there was a recall after I tried them. They were no longer made by Shimano and they have a couple flanges on the sides that trap snow.
So I guess Burton could have something here, if the boots are supportive enough to hold your heel down, I imagine they would be a the stiffer side. I also wonder if you can click in on the chairlift with these. That was about the only positive thing I could say about the old Clickers, if you were riding a chair with a death ramp up top you could click in and ride off the chair.
I found it mildly annoying in the video that eveyone was calling these step-ons instead of step-ins, maybe I'm just old and grouchy, but it seemed like they are trying to fool us some how by changing the name.
With an exisitng set of Genesis and Capo bindings I prob won't be switching over anytime soon.


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## AmberLamps (Feb 8, 2015)

Why would I need these?


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## KIRKRIDER (Mar 18, 2008)

Mig Fullbag said:


> Whether we like it or not, or if it is for us or not, the industry needs this. You are all looking at this as young and healthy riders (at least young at heart...), and whether it fits your "rad" and "core" style of riding or not. But the fact is snowboarding loses many users each year because of ease of use. After 37 years of riding, I have seen many of my friends and acquaintances go back to skiing or quit because of it for different reasons. One of them was teaching their kids. Starting them on snowboards is generally harder and more time consuming then having them start on skis. You spend your day getting yourself AND your kids in and out of bindings. Sometimes, several times per run. So some of them gave up and switched back to skis. For some others, it is health related. Repeatedly bending over at the waist with almost straight legs is nooot so good for your back. And the older you get, the harder it is. Do you know plenty of riders in their 60s, 70s or even 80s? They are pretty rare. But curiously, I see plenty of them on skis though.
> 
> I am 54, massively fat and have a bad back. It is a miracle that I can still bend over to strap in and out. I sometimes have to sit down at the end of a run because my back is killing me. I certainly wish that a step-in system that works for me will be there for when I can't strap-in anymore cause I certainly don't want to quit. Burton getting back into it is a step in the right direction. That's not how I would have done it. The release system should be integrated at the top of the boot, and not down on the heelcup. That is something the hardbooters definitely have right. You just pull a handle through you pants leg that sticks out the top of your boot, and you're out.


K2-Cinch-CTX + Burton Rider X works pretty well too Takes 10 seconds standing to step on. faster if you can find a tree or anything to lean a bit on.


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## t21 (Dec 29, 2010)

I do like this new step-on bindings but not for that price. I can see the benefit of not bending down to strap but you still do to release it. Having flow bindings where you bend to strap and release almost have the same amount of time with the step-on, well except the part where you adjust your straps until you find the sweet spot. I noticed that to avoid accidental release from your binding, your pant leg is inside the heelcup. I guess you can always bring a retractable ski pole to push the lever to release from the binding so you don't have to bend down :wink:


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## deagol (Mar 26, 2014)

finally watched the full vid. Seemed there was lots of Kool-Aid drinking going on..


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## Ygrene (Nov 20, 2014)

Deacon said:


> I'm confused by your math. Stiff boots cost $400. Good bindings cost $300. These boots would HAVE to be stiff to work correctly, and burton isn't know to produce crappy bindings.... Sounds like the price is in line with the market.


No maths actually, that's the price that is mentioned in the video. 

I'll openly admit that I'm a cheapskate. I make barely over the average wage and snowboarding is an expensive sport. $700 is a lot of money for me because my current setup cost me just over 300 (Salomon Malamute bought offseason for 200 and Burton Malavita's from the Burton Family Sale for 120 bucks). In my mind, that 380 bucks is another four days on the hill for me and choosing between the two, I'd rather ride more. Not saying that these are a bad product. Only time will let us know that one.


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## Ygrene (Nov 20, 2014)

deagol said:


> finally watched the full vid. Seemed there was lots of Kool-Aid drinking going on..


Honestly, it did feel like Terje didn't hang around because he hadn't formed an opinion about them yet. Judging from the bit in the middle of the video where he's taking his time to pick his line, it felt like that he really wanted to test them out and get a feel for them. I'd be interested to hear what he says about them. More importantly, I'd like to hear what the average rider has to say about them.


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## gnarstradamus (Jan 12, 2016)

deagol said:


> finally watched the full vid. Seemed there was lots of Kool-Aid drinking going on..


Agreed. The only person they show really pushing it on them is Terje at the 15:00 mark and he rips but it's Terje and he can rip on anything so it doesn't give us much. I read that he was testing them for Burton last season and won the Riks Banked Slalom on a pair. But again it's Terje.


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## Kenai (Dec 15, 2013)

gnarstradamus said:


> Agreed. The only person they show really pushing it on them is Terje at the 15:00 mark and he rips but it's Terje and he can rip on anything so it doesn't give us much. I read that he was testing them for Burton last season and won the Riks Banked Slalom on a pair. But again it's Terje.


It's pretty likely that your logic is backwards. You are essentially suggesting that Terje is doing well despite the bindings' performance. The more likely explanation is that the bindings work just fine and he rips. Beginners are beginners no matter the quality of the gear. He is almost certainly putting more stress on those bindings than any beginner so whether they are optimal for him or he can adapt and make them work, it still proves the point that the bindings are functional and the skill of the rider determines the skill of the rider.


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## deagol (Mar 26, 2014)

I would have to re-watch the end of the video to know for sure, but most of the Kool-Aid I was remembering came from the Burton guy (which is expected) but more so from that lady, who was talking about how she was so solid even on ice due to this set-up (like her edges held better due to the step-in/on bindings).


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## f00bar (Mar 6, 2014)

Ygrene said:


> No maths actually, that's the price that is mentioned in the video.
> 
> I'll openly admit that I'm a cheapskate. I make barely over the average wage and snowboarding is an expensive sport. $700 is a lot of money for me because my current setup cost me just over 300 (Salomon Malamute bought offseason for 200 and Burton Malavita's from the Burton Family Sale for 120 bucks). In my mind, that 380 bucks is another four days on the hill for me and choosing between the two, I'd rather ride more. Not saying that these are a bad product. Only time will let us know that one.


But comparing an MSRP to what you get at a sale isn't very fair either.


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## WasabiCanuck (Apr 29, 2015)

deagol said:


> I would have to re-watch the end of the video to know for sure, but most of the Kool-Aid I was remembering came from the Burton guy (which is expected) but more so from that lady, who was talking about how she was so solid even on ice due to this set-up (like her edges held better due to the step-in/on bindings).


I'm not going to form an opinion from that video. It was a bunch of guys paid by Burton, and Snowboarder magazine which is probably in the tank for Burton. It was a cool video to introduce the product and I am interested, it looks solid and I think the design could work. But until I see a decent review from a respectable 3rd party I won't form an opinion.

Since I finally learned to strap-in standing up, I don't think these are that amazing. Probably a little more convenient but until I see them up close and can try them on and test them at least in a shop, I won't know for sure.

Somebody mentioned a problem I hadn't thought of, you are paying a premium price for the boots but do they last as long as high-end boots. Anyone ride Ion's or SLX? Can you get 100 or 200 days in those boots? They are going with the Boa system for these so that is the Photon Boa boot. Anyone getting 100 or 200 days with the Photon? 

I think they also said they would have the Ruler for this. So is that $700 for the Photon or the Ruler? Lots of questions to be answered. The SIA trade show will be very interesting this year.


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## Motogp990 (Mar 10, 2013)

My personal take on the system is not Burton trying to revolutionize the boot/binding combo and making everybody switch to it but just introduce a different product to take more market share. Kind of like how EST bindings forces you to ride a Burton board (yes I know endeavor and maybe somebody else may have a channel system).

Or in the everyday world, somebody like coke bringing out a new flavor.

Imo $700 sounds cheap for something that's been in development for 5 years with 1000's of prototypes. I would almost say they are taking a loss and going to increase the price of their regular boots and bindings to recoup their costs, if they haven't already.

I've been riding ions the past few seasons and the price has steadily gone up. The ions have been $479cdn, $499cdn and $529cdn the past 3 seasons. Wtf. I wouldn't be surprised if they are $560+ next season.

Anyways, if Burton has a free demo at Whistler and there isn't a lineup, I'll try them out. However, like most you guys, I'll wait and see before I consider buying.


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## Mig Fullbag (Apr 15, 2014)

deagol said:


> This post brings up a good point, but maybe different than expected: if it is so easy to use hard boots to get in and out of bindings as this suggests, could hard boots be the simple answer for riders who have a problem with soft-boots and highbacks?
> 
> If it really is for older riders, maybe they would be better off with hard boots anyway, since they are (presumably) less into the freestyle stuff ??


Softboots and highbacks are not the problem. It's the repeated bending over and easy quick in and out. And even the softest hardboots don't come close to the "surfy" feeling of even the stiffest softboots. For me it is a "feel" thing. And I am convince that for my style of riding, and most freeriders, an hybrid between a soft and hardboot using something similar to the Intec step-in technology used in hardboots, would be fantastic.

And not saying the Burton ones are for older riders, just saying the industry will eventually need an easier to use binding/boot interface to retain the older demographic, new parents, very young kids, etc...

And freestyle can be done on hardboots with little mods. There's a freestyle pro who picked up splitboarding and switched to modified Dynafit touring hardboots because apparently they are superior to softboots for backcountry touring. He posted vids of him using them in the park to prove they were working for pretty much anything. Can't find the vids right now, or remember is name, but they are on IG.


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## Mig Fullbag (Apr 15, 2014)

KIRKRIDER said:


> K2-Cinch-CTX + Burton Rider X works pretty well too Takes 10 seconds standing to step on. faster if you can find a tree or anything to lean a bit on.


Still needs bending over and reaching down to the back of your foot, which is even worst for me and my shitty back...


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## Mig Fullbag (Apr 15, 2014)

Ygrene said:


> Honestly, it did feel like Terje didn't hang around because he hadn't formed an opinion about them yet. Judging from the bit in the middle of the video where he's taking his time to pick his line, it felt like that he really wanted to test them out and get a feel for them. I'd be interested to hear what he says about them. More importantly, I'd like to hear what the average rider has to say about them.


It was not is first try on them. a vid leaked on IG last spring where he was using them at a banked slalom race.


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## ShredLife (Feb 6, 2010)

Step-ins are for kooks.


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## larrytbull (Oct 30, 2013)

I am totally on the step in binding bandwagon, and have owned every major rear entry binding on the market looking for ones that work great. ATM I am still a flow fan, but even the flows have their issues. My initial thoughts on these are . Interesting, but I am concerned about the boot. As others have posted, the boot is the difference between a great day on the snow and a painful day, which means fit, comfort, and width (for us wide feet guys). This design will lock us in to one boot, and what happens if these bindings are not popular? will I wind up speding $$$$ then find out a season later they are no longer making them or have tweaked them, so that I can't upgrade? I am also concerned about the boot to binding interface, these things seem plastic welded to the boot, but if the boot is taking the stress from the heel cup, which is probably stiffer and stronger, how will these hold up after more than a few days.
I can surely see the treads ripping out on the boots after more than 5-10 days on snow.
I for sure will keep an eye on these, but will not commit till i see some long term reviews/riders who can answer the above


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## f00bar (Mar 6, 2014)

I would guess that if these gained any traction then they would license the boot tech out to other vendors. Maybe Hush Puppies will enter the game to take care of all the geriatric snowboarders


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## BurtonAvenger (Aug 14, 2007)

I'm probably the only person on here that's had these in his hand and played around with them for a few minutes. I'll have a set coming eventually.

You won't see shit about these at SIA or any trade show. Burton is done with trade shows and just doing regional showings now as it frees up more cash/time. 

Step Ins suck. Argue all you want about your poor back or your inability to balance or whatever. They fucking sucked and you can cry at me all you want. I ride more than you, I have more fucked up medical issues with my body from riding than you, and yet I manage to make it work. 

These will be in limited release from what I was told for next season and marketed only in key areas. They're going after the recreational rider that sucks. These aren't even going to be in their LTR rental program it seems (that may change).

Here's the issue. Burton boots just don't last. Even their highest end you can maybe get 50 to 80 days depending on the rider. Someone like me I would eat through boots with this system. Average rider, sure fine 50 days is probably about 8 years of riding. Awesome, good job you're not sustaining snowboarding. 

The actual mechanism to click in and out is fine. It's engineered properly from my inspection and it makes sense. Then again strap bindings make more sense. 

Everyone argues about this whole "we need to make it easier", you know what fuck you. A little adversity builds character and if people want to ski fine go fucking ski and blow your knee out when your din is fucked. A little downsizing in the bubble wouldn't hurt and personally I'd like to see the SKU count on gear drop by 50% as well as seeing a lot of brands just disappear from snowboarding. 

As mentioned I've already talked to some people about getting a set of these to test and I'll make sure Nivek gets some too. Do I think this solves anything? NO. Will I probably like them? NO. Will these be more of a cash grab for Burton, yes.


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## f00bar (Mar 6, 2014)

You can go collect a dollar from every person who rides 100+ days a year, I'll collect a $1 from every person who rides 50 in 8 years. Let's see which was the better choice.

The mistake that Burton is making is they are showing Terje with them, a person who falls into and is idolized by the 100+ or at least wanna be 100+ day rider. And realistically that isn't their target audience for these things.

You say its a cash grab, well, shit, every product snowboard related is. The only question is whether there is a group of consumers who consider it good purchase and just because it isn't you doesn't mean they suck or don't fill a need.


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## gnarstradamus (Jan 12, 2016)

Kenai said:


> It's pretty likely that your logic is backwards. You are essentially suggesting that Terje is doing well despite the bindings' performance. The more likely explanation is that the bindings work just fine and he rips. Beginners are beginners no matter the quality of the gear. He is almost certainly putting more stress on those bindings than any beginner so whether they are optimal for him or he can adapt and make them work, it still proves the point that the bindings are functional and the skill of the rider determines the skill of the rider.


I understand where you're coming from if we're talking about whether his boot pops loose when he rails a turn or if something breaks - I was more coming from the perspective of how responsive they are and how much you can control the board with them which was always the downfall of step ins and is even the issue with other rear entry binding systems on the market now. Terje can clearly control the board with them, but I watched him poach the Dew Tour slope course in Breck last week on a board with no bindings on it at all and he could control that, so to look at his ability to control the board with them may not translate to the average rider. That's all I was saying.


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## cerebroside (Nov 6, 2012)

BurtonAvenger said:


> ...They're going after the recreational rider that sucks...


So like 95% of snowboarders?

Edit: Including myself.


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## Ygrene (Nov 20, 2014)

Motogp990 said:


> Imo $700 sounds cheap for something that's been in development for 5 years with 1000's of prototypes. I would almost say they are taking a loss and going to increase the price of their regular boots and bindings to recoup their costs, if they haven't already.


I didn't think about it this way but I wonder, wouldn't it have made more sense to make it cheaper out the door and saturate the casual market with these since these are the people I'm guessing they're aiming for?



Mig Fullbag said:


> It was not is first try on them. a vid leaked on IG last spring where he was using them at a banked slalom race.


Well, that blows my theory out of the water.


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## t21 (Dec 29, 2010)

Terje was the main person that burton was focusing on this video riding their binding cuz he'd done it before IMO. Jack Mitrani wearing a red jacket was there too(Danny Davis BFF) but you only seen him probably twice, once when he was stepping on and last was he was trying to catch Terje downhill. Their binding works and for older people with back issues (Mig) and me as well, a retractable pole would work. Some riders will never like this bindings the same way they do not like Flow or any rear-entry bindings. We all just have to see how long this binding will last,become popular,or just fade out and forget about it. IMO, if i live past 60 and still riding...hopefully this binding would be around so i can carry a pole just to release my bindings like a skier:grin: fuck you if you don't like it!


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## Motogp990 (Mar 10, 2013)

Ygrene said:


> I didn't think about it this way but I wonder, wouldn't it have made more sense to make it cheaper out the door and saturate the casual market with these since these are the people I'm guessing they're aiming for?


Maybe their metrics dude/dudette felt $700 was the absolute cheapest price point or optimal price they could sell them in regards to business sense:shrug: 

Obv, I'm not an expert and in reality I'm talking out of my ass, however I recall hearing in the car world, how all those supercar/hypercar manufacturers that bring prototypes to production are sold at a loss, even if the price is $1 million dollars or whatever. Due to the extremely high costs it takes to R&D those cars. And in general it just seems to be very costly to engineer something new with tonnes of proto's vs changing a couple minor things and colors and releasing upgrades.


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## DaveMcI (Aug 19, 2013)

I lasted about 2 min into that video, it was painful to listen to whoever that was. Vaill is full of dbags.


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## freshy (Nov 18, 2009)

Seems like it would be the same type people riding these as who made the bulk of the sales in the 90's which would be people without a clue, and old dudes. Lucky for Burton there are no shortage of those people.


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## basser (Sep 18, 2015)

let's be real tho, for $700 you can get yourself a good pair of boots as well as bindings. So people are going have to decide what they prefer as they can go either route. For most people that are not good riders and don't ride much every year I doubt they would want to spend $700 for boots and bindings, probably more like $300-400.


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## larrytbull (Oct 30, 2013)

f00bar said:


> You can go collect a dollar from every person who rides 100+ days a year, I'll collect a $1 from every person who rides 50 in 8 years. Let's see which was the better choice.
> 
> The mistake that Burton is making is they are showing Terje with them, a person who falls into and is idolized by the 100+ or at least wanna be 100+ day rider. And realistically that isn't their target audience for these things.
> 
> You say its a cash grab, well, shit, every product snowboard related is. The only question is whether there is a group of consumers who consider it good purchase and just because it isn't you doesn't mean they suck or don't fill a need.


youbare spot on foobar. they need people like me to be thier poster.child
old and with a job

Sent from my SM-N920P using Tapatalk


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## destroy (Dec 16, 2012)

Motogp990 said:


> Maybe their metrics dude/dudette felt $700 was the absolute cheapest price point or optimal price they could sell them in regards to business sense:shrug:
> 
> Obv, I'm not an expert and in reality I'm talking out of my ass, however I recall hearing in the car world, how all those supercar/hypercar manufacturers that bring prototypes to production are sold at a loss, even if the price is $1 million dollars or whatever. Due to the extremely high costs it takes to R&D those cars. And in general it just seems to be very costly to engineer something new with tonnes of proto's vs changing a couple minor things and colors and releasing upgrades.


You're correct about the cars AFAIK as well.

Usually things like that for whatever reason they probably consider them some kind of valuable R&D exercise? I don't know what you learn from making a 1000 HP car with 12 radiators and 4 turbos that translates into anything usable on the consumer market, but hey...

As far as practicality, Mercedes-Benz used to employ a "no cost spared" approach to the engineering of their cars up until the early 2000's. Some of those cars cost over a billion dollars in development and design, and you could tell!



But oh yeah, these bindy bootie things will stink.


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## BurtonAvenger (Aug 14, 2007)

f00bar said:


> You can go collect a dollar from every person who rides 100+ days a year, I'll collect a $1 from every person who rides 50 in 8 years. Let's see which was the better choice.
> 
> The mistake that Burton is making is they are showing Terje with them, a person who falls into and is idolized by the 100+ or at least wanna be 100+ day rider. And realistically that isn't their target audience for these things.
> 
> You say its a cash grab, well, shit, every product snowboard related is. The only question is whether there is a group of consumers who consider it good purchase and just because it isn't you doesn't mean they suck or don't fill a need.


You're clearly missing the point here chief. Someone that buys gear every 8 to 10 or in this case it's been almost 20 years does not support snowboarding. They get this gear, they go maybe on a good year what, 10 days a year. The average snowboarder rides 9.3 days a season right now. Let that fucking sink in 9.3 days. 

Why were we selling step in bindings 10 years after they were discontinued on super close out at shops over the world? A lot of shops just ended up chucking them because there was no demand. The answer? Because the people that bought them stopped either using them, riding, or buying them. So you sit around for 20 years and suddenly they either come back to riding, bitch that their equipment which was too over built is finally dead and they're finally going to buy new equipment, or you get a few people that might have some issues that need it. 

It's a quick cash grab that won't be here in a few season. 



cerebroside said:


> So like 95% of snowboarders?
> 
> Edit: Including myself.


You ride more than 5 days a year? If you do, you're past what is considered a casual recreational rider. 



t21 said:


> Terje was the main person that burton was focusing on this video riding their binding cuz he'd done it before IMO. Jack Mitrani wearing a red jacket was there too(Danny Davis BFF) but you only seen him probably twice, once when he was stepping on and last was he was trying to catch Terje downhill. Their binding works and for older people with back issues (Mig) and me as well, a retractable pole would work. Some riders will never like this bindings the same way they do not like Flow or any rear-entry bindings. We all just have to see how long this binding will last,become popular,or just fade out and forget about it. IMO, if i live past 60 and still riding...hopefully this binding would be around so i can carry a pole just to release my bindings like a skier:grin: fuck you if you don't like it!


If you ride with a pole I hope you stab yourself. No, just fucking NO. 



freshy said:


> Seems like it would be the same type people riding these as who made the bulk of the sales in the 90's which would be people without a clue, and old dudes. Lucky for Burton there are no shortage of those people.


Gotta cash that 401k in and buy something. 



basser said:


> let's be real tho, for $700 you can get yourself a good pair of boots as well as bindings. So people are going have to decide what they prefer as they can go either route. For most people that are not good riders and don't ride much every year I doubt they would want to spend $700 for boots and bindings, probably more like $300-400.


As mentioned limited market, limited consumer. 700 now and maybe this will pay for the r&d and they might break even, especially if they bring it to the rental market. There will be 2 boot options a soft boot and a stiffer boot. 

Anyone remember when Burton invented that ripcord binding for easier tightening? Or the winged high backs that were interchangeable, what about their own attempt at BOA. Burton tries a lot of new tech and brings it to the market and it has a lot of failures people like to forget. 2 years and gone is what I'm calling right now. We'll see it again about 2038.


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## chomps1211 (Mar 30, 2011)

GreyDragon said:


> Love the guy who comments about getting snow down his backside because he sits down to strap in.
> *Someone should tell him to get some "big boy" pants and strap in standing up.*:dry:


:facepalm3: ^this^

…or do what I do! I put suspender buttons on *all* my SB pants. I almost never sit to strap in,.. But I quit using a belt because whenever I washed out & slid down the slope,… the belt just scooped up a ton of snow and deposited it right down my ass! (_Monkey Butt_ is a *serious* health issue!!) :rofl3: 

Besides…. _NOBODY_ needs to see _my_ "plumbers crack" while I'm bending over my TB's & strapping in! (Two Bellies!)  :laugh:

@Mig Fullbag,…. I def feel ya about the discomfort bending over with a bad back. (…and LARGE front!) _The things we'll do for Love!! Eh?_ :laugh:


As for the issues of price point mentioned,… I must be a Helluva serious cheapskate!! I've got 3 pairs of boots and 3 sets of bindings,… (All Cartels) And I *never* paid more than $325-$400 for any one set of boots/binders!! :blink:

According to @BurtonAvenger 's statistics,.. I'm certainly past being just an average or casual rider!! (…at least as far as days on the snow are concerned.) Should my skillz ever warrant needing/wanting a super serious, high end set of gear,.. I'm not opposed to spending $700+! Especially for quality gear! But $700 is a shit ton of money for me! 

Right now,.. That's more like Boots, Bindings _AND_ a new board!!


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## scotty100 (Apr 3, 2012)

Lot of opinion so far on how these will suck that seems to me based mainly on how bad step ins were 15 years ago. Maybe wait till we see how these perform before writing them off as a quick cash grab...all I know is that there's defintely a market for convenience AND performance and the pricing is not that crazy considering their other high end gear...bought together genesis and photons will run you over 700 bucks...


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## Argo (Feb 25, 2010)

I love my flows, no thanks on these things. Maybe good for some people but I doubt they are around for too long. Didnt K2 re launch a step in last year(maybe 2 years now) and now we are hearing nothing about them?

I agree with BA on like 99% of his opinion on these things....


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## snowklinger (Aug 30, 2011)

ShredLife said:


> Step-ins are for kooks.


bro



sup yo'

hi bro


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## KIRKRIDER (Mar 18, 2008)

Mig Fullbag said:


> Still needs bending over and reaching down to the back of your foot, which is even worst for me and my shitty back...


Agree. Not as effortless as a step in. but using either a "runner's start" pose, or just leaning down on a slope standing on your toe edge makes it really quick and comfortable. Would attaching a line to the highback mechanism help you bend less?


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## f00bar (Mar 6, 2014)

Wake me up when they use magnets.


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## destroy (Dec 16, 2012)

BurtonAvenger said:


> You're clearly missing the point here chief. Someone that buys gear every 8 to 10 or in this case it's been almost 20 years does not support snowboarding. They get this gear, they go maybe on a good year what, 10 days a year. The average snowboarder rides 9.3 days a season right now. Let that fucking sink in 9.3 days.
> 
> Why were we selling step in bindings 10 years after they were discontinued on super close out at shops over the world? A lot of shops just ended up chucking them because there was no demand. The answer? Because the people that bought them stopped either using them, riding, or buying them. So you sit around for 20 years and suddenly they either come back to riding, bitch that their equipment which was too over built is finally dead and they're finally going to buy new equipment, or you get a few people that might have some issues that need it.
> 
> ...


You're definitely right. It was only a few/couple seasons ago that they didn't have any boots with Boa tech, steadfast sticking by their crappy speed laces. Now they're slipping the Boa back in (get your mind outta the gutter!) to lots of boots in their lineup, little more each year.


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## ShredLife (Feb 6, 2010)

snowklinger said:


> bro
> 
> 
> 
> ...


hey broseph


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## Alpine Duke (Jun 21, 2015)

that video was so painful! The guy videoing would pan AWAY from their feet every time someone was clicking in?? Painful! Gets the names wrong, talks about shots he did or didn't want....but no edit. And that is their product PR vid??? Really?? The photog chick was carrying the absolute top of the line camera but he seemed to be videoing with his 5 year old phone or something. What is up???


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## robotfood99 (Mar 19, 2016)

Alpine Duke said:


> that video was so painful! The guy videoing would pan AWAY from their feet every time someone was clicking in?? Painful! Gets the names wrong, talks about shots he did or didn't want....but no edit. And that is their product PR vid??? Really?? The photog chick was carrying the absolute top of the line camera but he seemed to be videoing with his 5 year old phone or something. What is up???




That was a Facebook Live footage, I believe. So obviously no edits but the whole thing was still poorly shot and presented.


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## 70'sskater (Mar 20, 2014)

Here's a review,dont like the clicking sound it make while riding, see the video. Also in the "comfort" section of the review he mentions some discomfort on the sides where the attach points are. I could def see that happeining over time (big red flag too me). Also found it intersting he says heel to toe response is faster than tradonal bindings even those with carbon highbacks.
Burton Step On: A Critical Review of a New Step-In Snowboard Binding System | TransWorld SNOWboarding


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## SnowDragon (Apr 23, 2012)

70'sskater said:


> Here's a review,dont like the clicking sound it make while riding, see the video. Also in the "comfort" section of the review he mentions some discomfort on the sides where the attach points are. I could def see that happeining over time (big red flag too me). Also found it intersting he says heel to toe response is faster than tradonal bindings even those with carbon highbacks.
> Burton Step On: A Critical Review of a New Step-In Snowboard Binding System | TransWorld SNOWboarding


Meh.
A review by someone who has a built in bias against them from the start. Not particularly useful imo.

For me, he lost all credibility when he said he prefers his 15 year old truck and adamantly states that strap bindings will always be cooler than step-ons. I'll be sure to stay off of this old man's lawn.


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## DaftDeft (Mar 7, 2016)

It's interesting in a way since the reviewer was clearly biased against bindings from the start and still ended up kind of liking them.

He didn't hate them, as much as he really wanted to hate them.


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## snowklinger (Aug 30, 2011)

GreyDragon said:


> Meh.
> A review by someone who has a built in bias against them from the start. Not particularly useful imo.
> 
> For me, he lost all credibility when he said he *prefers his 15 year old truck* and adamantly states that *strap bindings will always be cooler than step-ons.* I'll be sure to stay off of this old man's lawn.


ironically i find that he gains credibility at these points

this system is designed for rental fleets and tourists, not regular riders, this dynamic seems unlikely to change.

I've been on 'Vitas for about 5 years, i think its time to go FLUX.


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## kenshapiro2002 (Feb 1, 2011)

Mig Fullbag said:


> Whether we like it or not, or if it is for us or not, the industry needs this. You are all looking at this as young and healthy riders (at least young at heart...), and whether it fits your "rad" and "core" style of riding or not. But the fact is snowboarding loses many users each year because of ease of use. After 37 years of riding, I have seen many of my friends and acquaintances go back to skiing or quit because of it for different reasons. One of them was teaching their kids. Starting them on snowboards is generally harder and more time consuming then having them start on skis. You spend your day getting yourself AND your kids in and out of bindings. Sometimes, several times per run. So some of them gave up and switched back to skis. For some others, it is health related. Repeatedly bending over at the waist with almost straight legs is nooot so good for your back. And the older you get, the harder it is. Do you know plenty of riders in their 60s, 70s or even 80s? They are pretty rare. But curiously, I see plenty of them on skis though.
> 
> I am 54, massively fat and have a bad back. It is a miracle that I can still bend over to strap in and out. I sometimes have to sit down at the end of a run because my back is killing me. I certainly wish that a step-in system that works for me will be there for when I can't strap-in anymore cause I certainly don't want to quit. Burton getting back into it is a step in the right direction. That's not how I would have done it. The release system should be integrated at the top of the boot, and not down on the heelcup. That is something the hardbooters definitely have right. You just pull a handle through you pants leg that sticks out the top of your boot, and you're out.


64 years young here. Skied almost 40 years and switched to a tray ten years ago... I'll never go back. Started out with Flows, then thankfully switched to K2 Cinch bindings which serve me perfectly. The best "old age" fix was going to K2 boots with boas. THAT was the best aid to an aged body. I watched the Burton video and was psyched about these, but after thinking more, my front foot is staying in anyway so no advantage there. Getting out is nno easier and actually looks to be MORE difficult. I'm curious about snow intrusion being a problem as it always has been with step ins. As since its a boot specific system, I'd need to get convinced that their boots are as close to prefect as my K2s are.

What I want is a toy to help me on the flats... My idea is scissorhands... ten inch nails that pop out so I can lean over and claw my way back up to speed on the flats i can't get through.


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## hikeswithdogs (Sep 23, 2011)

Ygrene said:


> No maths actually, that's the price that is mentioned in the video.
> 
> I'll openly admit that I'm a cheapskate. I make barely over the average wage and snowboarding is an expensive sport. $700 is a lot of money for me because my current setup cost me just over 300 (Salomon Malamute bought offseason for 200 and Burton Malavita's from the Burton Family Sale for 120 bucks). In my mind, that 380 bucks is another four days on the hill for me and choosing between the two, I'd rather ride more. Not saying that these are a bad product. Only time will let us know that one.



Seriously I WILL NEVER pay retail for anything, if it's not ATLEAST 50% off I'm not even remotely interested......I know what the mark up is on this stuff.

I think for my Jones flagship and Burton Genesis bindings(new in the plastic) together I paid less than 500$


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## KIRKRIDER (Mar 18, 2008)

kenshapiro2002 said:


> 64 years young here. Skied almost 40 years and switched to a tray ten years ago... I'll never go back. Started out with Flows, then thankfully switched to K2 Cinch bindings which serve me perfectly. The best "old age" fix was going to K2 boots with boas. THAT was the best aid to an aged body. I watched the Burton video and was psyched about these, but after thinking more, my front foot is staying in anyway so no advantage there. Getting out is nno easier and actually looks to be MORE difficult. I'm curious about snow intrusion being a problem as it always has been with step ins. As since its a boot specific system, I'd need to get convinced that their boots are as close to prefect as my K2s are.
> 
> What I want is a toy to help me on the flats... My idea is scissorhands... ten inch nails that pop out so I can lean over and claw my way back up to speed on the flats i can't get through.


51 here, same bindings with Burton DriverX boots. Great combination. Good point about the new system. As for flats...wax a lot and avoid them!  had the same scissor hands idea, then I use my sturdy actioncam pole if needed. But a good wax goes a long way on flats.


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## ek9max (Apr 8, 2013)

hikeswithdogs said:


> Ygrene said:
> 
> 
> > No maths actually, that's the price that is mentioned in the video.
> ...


If I want something, I'll buy it. If I can get a deal, great. But if not, I don't might a shop shop owner making money, cause that's what keeps the world going around.


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