# Close to quitting snowboarding



## Benzzz (Dec 13, 2020)

Hey all
I have been snow boarding for a couple of seasons but have been held back heavily by being in foot agony 100% of the time im on the slopes.

I have outrageously wide feet because of bunnionettes (pinky toe sided bunions). I have tried a few boots previously with out success.
I have Burton ruler wides which I have heat moulded, custom foot bed and stretched them till the outer shell is almost delaminating and nothing makes them bearable.
I dont think I can cut the liner because the seam goes right over the spot where I need to cut them and remove material.
Any one else have any solutions or ideas ?
I would pay a large amount of money for custom made boots if that option existed.
Without the liner in, my foot touches both sides of the inside of the shell..!

Please help a brother not quit the sport to move to skiing!

Note: the boot is long enough for my foot, the way the photo was taken may suggest otherwise.
the width squashes that pinky toe knob right into the boot and this is where the pain and numbness comes from.



Right Foot: Length: 287mm
Right Foot: Width widest point: 115mm
Left Foot: Length: 285mm
Left Foot Width widest point 119mm


----------



## Elevation212 (Apr 21, 2019)

Sounds like a bummer my dude, have you determined your mondo size? I’d head over to this thread and ping @Wiredsport he’s awesome at getting you to the right boot. He’ll want measurement’s of both feet, way to do it is put some paper on the ground next to a wall, place your heel against the wall and press down with even pressure, mark the end point of your longest toe. For width place your instep against the wall, even pressure and mark the widest point of your foot, repeat for your other foot and post it on the forum bellow









Snowboard Boot Size Web Tool - Mondo, Brannock &amp...


They will loosen and that does take away some of that crispy new boot feel, but we do not suggest going below Mondopoint. Burton's ultra thin compression socks are my suggested favorites. Ah, gotcha! Awesome, I’ll have a look online and pick up a pair of those socks. Thanks!




www.snowboardingforum.com


----------



## FriendlyDropBear (6 mo ago)

I've heard burton can be a not great fit for plenty of people? 

It really just sounds like you need to try a bunch of boots to find a brand with a last that fits. A shame that snowboard boots don't list last width like ski boots do!

Perhaps look into thirtytwo?

ALSO what socks do you wear?


----------



## Rip154 (Sep 23, 2017)

If all else fails, get a snowskate and a powsurfer. That means you can use pretty much any winterboot, and have options for hardpack and powder. The TM2 Wides from Thirtytwo is worth trying, and possibly the K2/Ride Wides. Adidas have been known to work for some, but the liners aren’t as soft.


----------



## Adam9 (Jan 13, 2021)

Seems like a pretty extreme situation, could you size up to larger boots that fit your forefoot and then pack out the liners with foam to get the rest of your foot secure?


----------



## Elevation212 (Apr 21, 2019)

If you think hard boots would be better you could also check out the phantom slipper system


----------



## MJP (Jan 7, 2013)

Benzzz said:


> Hey all
> I have been snow boarding for a couple of seasons but have been held back heavily by being in foot agony 100% of the time im on the slopes.
> 
> I have outrageously wide feet because of bunnionettes (pinky toe sided bunions). I have tried a few boots previously with out success.
> ...


Take a look at Salomon's


----------



## boisell (Feb 14, 2016)

Burton is not a great choice for anyone with wider feet. There are a number of wides out there. Try Thirty Two's TM-2 Double Boa Wide Merrills as those are wider than most I believe. There's a boot out there for you, just need to try on a bunch to find it.


----------



## eleveneightnate (4 mo ago)

If tight/uncomfortable boots are your problem, moving to skiing isn't gonna help one bit... find some adidas Tacticals or Acerras in your size, super roomy.


----------



## Surgeon (Apr 13, 2020)

I'll be flamed for this one (bring it on guys!) but this seems like a desperate situation.

If you've tried everything under the sun and can't find anything that fits well (and I do mean EVERYTHING, take your time, shop and try around, chances are you'll find something that, with some pro-fitting help, will work for you... but if it all fails?), you always have the option of using a "normal" winter boot (gasp!), provided that you have a pair that fits you well.

Would it be ideal? No. Would it provide the support, comfort, technical advantages and so on of a real pair of snowboard boots? Nope. However, if it's the only option that doesn't make you want to quit (or chop up your feet) it's definitely worth looking into.

Back in the '80s and early '90s we used Sorel boots. They were big, clunky, floppy, had soles too wide to fit in our bindings and had only three eyelets for the laces, which meant no heel retention whatsoever. Yet we rode, learned and had a blast. Are things better today? Hell yeah, by a LOT. But it's not impossible to use something other than snowboarding boots if all else fails.

Ok young dudes who refer to my teen years as the "late 1900s", flame away...


----------



## Yotaismygame (10 mo ago)

Surgeon said:


> I'll be flamed for this one (bring it on guys!) but this seems like a desperate situation.
> 
> If you've tried everything under the sun and can't find anything that fits well (and I do mean EVERYTHING, take your time, shop and try around, chances are you'll find something that, with some pro-fitting help, will work for you... but if it all fails?), you always have the option of using a "normal" winter boot (gasp!), provided that you have a pair that fits you well.
> 
> ...


Not sure why you think youll be flamed. And btw the term "flamed" is something people said on forums back in the early 2000s. Not really a thing anymore and really not all that expectable. I remember the term "flame suite" too. Oh the early 2000s and the internet 😂


----------



## XzoltronX (Nov 28, 2019)

Surgeon said:


> I'll be flamed for this one (bring it on guys!) but this seems like a desperate situation.
> 
> If you've tried everything under the sun and can't find anything that fits well (and I do mean EVERYTHING, take your time, shop and try around, chances are you'll find something that, with some pro-fitting help, will work for you... but if it all fails?), you always have the option of using a "normal" winter boot (gasp!), provided that you have a pair that fits you well.
> 
> ...


I started in and rode (fake) Sorels for years and loved it... but I'm not sure I could go back! 

I second the sentiment that I can't imagine skiing being better.

I'm super picky about boots. Last time I needed new ones I contacted backcountry.com and said, "I want to order a bunch of boots to try on, and only keep the one that fits best. Will you pay return shipping on all the others?" And they did. I ordered 8 pairs. Annoying to do all the shipping, but I live hours from any legit boardshops so it was sort of the only way.


----------



## BurtonAvenger (Aug 14, 2007)

So couple things I'd recommend. Ditch the Burtons, they aren't the boot that fits your foot or needs. Or at least ditch their liner.

You have options to get the right fit but it's going to take a little dedication and some trial and error.

Plug liner: The Liners Archives - Intuition Liners
Notice how these liners don't have a predetermined shape or seams on the side? Yeah that's going to make it easier to mold around that bunion. 

You will probably have to get the liner cut and have some foam extraction. 

You will probably have to have a bunion bridge built to create an air pocket around the bunion. This is time intensive and will be a bit of trail and error.

You will probably need a full custom footbed as well.

My suggestion is find a ski race shop that deals with Lange Boots and does custom footbeds. Not Surefoot as I find them incompetent with issues like this. What you're going to do is tell them we need to start from the arch and work our way up to the bunion, then the liner, then the shell. It's going to be a time intensive process, judging just by what you're saying I'm guessing this is a 6 to 8 hour job from previous ones I've done in the past. 

You will probably have multiple visits with the boot fitter and become bff's. You're also going to be paying about 25 USD an hour or more for their work if they're worth it. 

The good news is you're not the only one experiencing this issue. I actually have sixth toe on both my feet and typically do a little work to mitigate it and have done all the steps above, but I also worked in a shop and was a boot fitter for a decade.


----------



## eleveneightnate (4 mo ago)

Pocket knife -> bunion -> boot freedom.


----------



## Surgeon (Apr 13, 2020)

Yotaismygame said:


> Not sure why you think youll be flamed. And btw the term "flamed" is something people said on forums back in the early 2000s. Not really a thing anymore and really not all that expectable. I remember the term "flame suite" too. Oh the early 2000s and the internet 😂


Because I'm sure for most folks here riding in something other than snowboard boots is unthinkable...
Yes, being flamed is an old term. Where and when do you think I learned about and started using it? I also hang on other forums where the median age is a lot older than this one...Doesn't mean I can't use it now. And I remember when the internet came sonny... don't try to teach me about what happened before you were born...


----------



## Surgeon (Apr 13, 2020)

BurtonAvenger said:


> So couple things I'd recommend. Ditch the Burtons, they aren't the boot that fits your foot or needs. Or at least ditch their liner.
> 
> You have options to get the right fit but it's going to take a little dedication and some trial and error.
> 
> ...


The best boot is the one that fits your bunionnettes and fits your needs...


----------



## BurtonAvenger (Aug 14, 2007)

Surgeon said:


> The best boot is the one that fits your bunionnettes and fits your needs...


Wiki feet /angrysnowboarder


----------



## PlanB (Nov 21, 2014)

If the OP can't find a solution and is going to quit to take up skiing - then I'd suggest you have another option - Hard Boots. If you're going to switch to skiing, and can fit into a hard-boot, why not just snowboard with those? 

Back in the day many people rode hard-boots (ski boots) and I know for a fact there are still several reputable companies making snowboard specific hard-boot bindings. 

I know it's 'sacrilege' around here, but if you have exhausted every single other soft-boot option, this may be your last chance to stick it out....?


----------



## Elevation212 (Apr 21, 2019)

XzoltronX said:


> I started in and rode (fake) Sorels for years and loved it... but I'm not sure I could go back!
> 
> I second the sentiment that I can't imagine skiing being better.
> 
> I'm super picky about boots. Last time I needed new ones I contacted backcountry.com and said, "I want to order a bunch of boots to try on, and only keep the one that fits best. Will you pay return shipping on all the others?" And they did. I ordered 8 pairs. Annoying to do all the shipping, but I live hours from any legit boardshops so it was sort of the only way.


the only way to buy boots- do the same thing with hiking shoes & Zappos


----------



## Elevation212 (Apr 21, 2019)

PlanB said:


> If the OP can't find a solution and is going to quit to take up skiing - then I'd suggest you have another option - Hard Boots. If you're going to switch to skiing, and can fit into a hard-boot, why not just snowboard with those?
> 
> Back in the day many people rode hard-boots (ski boots) and I know for a fact there are still several reputable companies making snowboard specific hard-boot bindings.
> 
> I know it's 'sacrilege' around here, but if you have exhausted every single other soft-boot option, this may be your last chance to stick it out....?


don’t know about sacrilege the loves moved to the splitboarding community, phantom slippers look dopoe! That said @BurtonAvenger is doing his best to burn the hard boot community to the ground so their maybe some latent agita


----------



## SEWiShred (Jan 19, 2019)

There's always such a push to make sure your boot is the perfect fit. it's optimal, no doubt, to have them perfect, but sometimes you just can't. When I started I was in size 13s because my feet were so wide. Realistically my foot length is more like a size 10. I still had fun and could enjoy myself in the size 13s. Yeah, it is better to have the right fitting boot, but sometimes it doesn't work that way. I mean we measured mine to the T and I was told to get 10 Wide Burtons, they fit almost perfectly but my foot gets wider than most in the middle of the foot and I get pain there. I also have problems with my right little toes rubbing, eventually they callus and stop hurting though. But basically, those size 13s were the most comfortable boots I had, they just didn't respond nearly as well. But if you can't find the right boot maybe you should just oversize and crank them down. I know I'm gonna get some flame for saying that but you're gonna spend all your time getting discouraged and in pain if you keep chasing after the perfect boot that'll fit your foot.


----------



## Elevation212 (Apr 21, 2019)

SEWiShred said:


> There's always such a push to make sure your boot is the perfect fit. it's optimal, no doubt, to have them perfect, but sometimes you just can't. When I started I was in size 13s because my feet were so wide. Realistically my foot length is more like a size 10. I still had fun and could enjoy myself in the size 13s. Yeah, it is better to have the right fitting boot, but sometimes it doesn't work that way. I mean we measured mine to the T and I was told to get 10 Wide Burtons, they fit almost perfectly but my foot gets wider than most in the middle of the foot and I get pain there. I also have problems with my right little toes rubbing, eventually they callus and stop hurting though. But basically, those size 13s were the most comfortable boots I had, they just didn't respond nearly as well. But if you can't find the right boot maybe you should just oversize and crank them down. I know I'm gonna get some flame for saying that but you're gonna spend all your time getting discouraged and in pain if you keep chasing after the perfect boot that'll fit your foot.


agreed, the only time folks get flamed IMO for riding boots that are too big is when they complain about not being able to find the right sized deck/don’t feel their setup is responsive enough

to OP if you over size consider putting some foam/padding at the front of your boot and something with a good J bar/internal boa Ankle cuff to really lock your heel in, one downside of a over sized boot is sliding around and getting blisters


----------



## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

Hi,
Please post up your four barefoot measurements and please let us know the boot size that you have been riding. That is all critical info to getting you started in the right direction.

STOKED!


----------



## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

@Benzzz there is the old school ski boot era and the new AT hard boot era, two different things. And with only 2 seasons in...kind of doubt if AT boots are going to be a good way to go. Mainly because you don't know what, how to fit and what performance you want. BA's notes about finding a competent boot fitter, working with and paying for is money well spent. In fact, go to THE go to boot fitter first and ask for an assessment and recommendation of what brand/model that might work for you...and tip them well for the service and information. At this point you are asking for a bunch of web weirdos that have a particular fetish that is perhaps worse than Imelda's. Yup we are knowledge about our tootsies... but have not yet fondled yours. However wiredsport and BA are our go to wiredos that have decades of experience between them.

I've taken the dive into AT boots and can't see myself ever going back to softboots, except for shits and giggles for retro daze. But they are a no go. Infact will likely give away 3 pairs of bindings and a couple 32's to the local kid's ski/snowboard swap next week. Anyway, the link below is my AT boot journey mainly as a bread crumb trail for potential enthusiasts.

The hardboot ride...downhill? | Snowboarding Forum - Snowboard Enthusiast Forums


----------



## Powdertrax (Jan 28, 2018)

Surgeon said:


> I'll be flamed for this one (bring it on guys!) but this seems like a desperate situation.
> 
> If you've tried everything under the sun and can't find anything that fits well (and I do mean EVERYTHING, take your time, shop and try around, chances are you'll find something that, with some pro-fitting help, will work for you... but if it all fails?), you always have the option of using a "normal" winter boot (gasp!), provided that you have a pair that fits you well.
> 
> ...


To funny just last night I was telling my brother how in the mid 80’s we used to buy Sorels, and the first thing we did was take them to the cabinet shop we worked at and hit them with the edge sander to remove the edge of the soles and toe/heal because they didn’t fit in the base plates and toe drag.

The next thing was to throw the liners away and find a pair of old ski boots at a Goodwill to remove the bladders and slide them into the Sorels. On one trip to a local ski shop I asked if they had bladders for sale, the employee said to meet him at the storage unit across the street. He unlocked the door and this 12’ x 20’ storage unit was filled floor to ceiling with boxes of brand new bladders, I couldn’t believe I had found the end of the rainbow, I grabbed two pair and told all of my friends to score some. The then asked what are you guys using these for we can’t sell them, I then mentioned to put in our Sorels and you need to advertise that you have these, they’ll be gone in a month.


----------



## Surgeon (Apr 13, 2020)

Powdertrax said:


> To funny just last night I was telling my brother how in the mid 80’s we used to buy Sorels, and the first thing we did was take them to the cabinet shop we worked at and hit them with the edge sander to remove the edge of the soles and toe/heal because they didn’t fit in the base plates and toe drag.
> 
> The next thing was to throw the liners away and find a pair of old ski boots at a Goodwill to remove the bladders and slide them into the Sorels. On one trip to a local ski shop I asked if they had bladders for sale, the employee said to meet him at the storage unit across the street. He unlocked the door and this 12’ x 20’ storage unit was filled floor to ceiling with boxes of brand new bladders, I couldn’t believe I had found the end of the rainbow, I grabbed two pair and told all of my friends to score some. The then asked what are you guys using these for we can’t sell them, I then mentioned to put in our Sorels and you need to advertise that you have these, they’ll be gone in a month.


NIce. We never thought of putting ski boots liners in there back then... I first read about this practice a couple years ago and couldn't believe we never thought of it.


----------



## NoirX252 (Aug 1, 2009)

I have what I consider ridiculously wide feet that no standard shoe really fits 100%. Even 6E New Balance.

However, the Burton Photon BOA wide fits me more or less. I even downsized; I want a very close fit.
If you want custom width; you may need a fully custom solution like a hardshell boot with custom work done to it.

Don't size up; it is masking an issue. To achieve even leverage between toe and heel edges means your toe is going to stick out way more. If you want even over-hang, you will be significantly heel-side biased. This makes a huge difference for carving on rutted, hard snow.

A custom hardboot can be plenty flexible enough. Don't be afraid to try it if it's your last resort. A plus is that hardboots do not soften up and can last hundreds of riding days.


----------



## Yotaismygame (10 mo ago)

Surgeon said:


> Because I'm sure for most folks here riding in something other than snowboard boots is unthinkable...
> Yes, being flamed is an old term. Where and when do you think I learned about and started using it? I also hang on other forums where the median age is a lot older than this one...Doesn't mean I can't use it now. And I remember when the internet came sonny... don't try to teach me about what happened before you were born...


I’m not as young as it sounds you think.
Most guys on here aren’t all that young. Just saying not sure why you thought you would get flamed and that getting flamed isn’t a thing anymore.


----------



## Elevation212 (Apr 21, 2019)

Yotaismygame said:


> I’m not as young as it sounds you think.
> Most guys on here aren’t all that young. Just saying not sure why you thought you would get flamed and that getting flamed isn’t a thing anymore.


my assumption is the primary demo here is 38-52 year old white dudes


----------



## Yotaismygame (10 mo ago)

Elevation212 said:


> my assumption is the primary demo here is 38-52 year old white dudes


I’m half brown 😎


----------



## Elevation212 (Apr 21, 2019)

Yotaismygame said:


> I’m half brown 😎


Which half?


----------



## smellysell (Oct 29, 2018)

Elevation212 said:


> my assumption is the primary demo here is 38-52 year old white dudes


✅


----------



## Manicmouse (Apr 7, 2014)

eleveneightnate said:


> Pocket knife -> bunion -> boot freedom.


I had to google bunionettes, yeah you're not cutting those off!


----------



## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

Manicmouse said:


> I had to google bunionettes, yeah you're not cutting those off!


The immediate pic in my mind was of my daughter who as a toddler liked stand on my feet and dance around.

Yup had to also had to google it...who knew.

Btw, I must be an over-ripe banana.


----------



## Surgeon (Apr 13, 2020)

Yotaismygame said:


> I’m not as young as it sounds you think.
> Most guys on here aren’t all that young. Just saying not sure why you thought you would get flamed and that getting flamed isn’t a thing anymore.


I don't appreciate pointless and pedantic lectures on internet vernacular from kids . Period.


----------



## mjayvee (Nov 18, 2015)

Yotaismygame said:


> I’m half brown 😎


Glad that I am not the only brown dude on this forum. 😆 

I was once told that I “do not look like a snowboarder.”
If I was not in the workplace and speaking with a client, I would have said: “Why, because I am not white?”


----------



## Elevation212 (Apr 21, 2019)

mjayvee said:


> Glad that I am not the only brown dude on this forum. 😆
> 
> I was once told that I “do not look like a snowboarder.”
> If I was not in the workplace and speaking with a client, I would have said: “Why, because I am not white?”


zeb Powell would like a word, but it’s best not to look like a snowboarder, buncha losers n dirtbags if you ask me


----------



## Surgeon (Apr 13, 2020)

mjayvee said:


> Glad that I am not the only brown dude on this forum. 😆
> 
> I was once told that I “do not look like a snowboarder.”
> If I was not in the workplace and speaking with a client, I would have said: “Why, because I am not white?”


I recently had a woman refuse to get on the chairlift with my daughter and myself because "I don't sit with snowboarders"... I couldn't believe it. It was like I was back in the late '80s early '90s when there was a huge divide and animosity between skiers and snowboarders (it's not completely gone but, if you weren't around back then, it was huge). I just looked at her and said "be honest lady, it's really because I'm black ain't it?" (the punch is, of course, that I'm not black, but it really made her feel extremely uncomfortable, which was the objective).


----------



## SandPounder (Apr 8, 2021)

Might want to look into Salomon Wide boots. I hear they are great.


----------



## SEWiShred (Jan 19, 2019)

NoirX252 said:


> Don't size up; it is masking an issue. To achieve even leverage between toe and heel edges means your toe is going to stick out way more. If you want even over-hang, you will be significantly heel-side biased. This makes a huge difference for carving on rutted, hard snow.


Normally I'd agree but if someone is getting ready to quit the sport because of foot pain it's best to just get them out on the hill and not be in pain than to try and get them into an optimal setup. I mean, this isn't just a typical "I bought the wrong boots and I have pain", it's more "I've tried everything because I have an issue with my foot and I'm about to give up." I've dealt with pain before, it can make what should be an amazing day be miserable.


----------



## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

SEWiShred said:


> Normally I'd agree but if someone is getting ready to quit the sport because of foot pain it's best to just get them out on the hill and not be in pain than to try and get them into an optimal setup. I mean, this isn't just a typical "I bought the wrong boots and I have pain", it's more "I've tried everything because I have an issue with my foot and I'm about to give up." I've dealt with pain before, it can make what should be an amazing day be miserable.


Well snowboarding is where pain is a motivator to learn, not an encouragement to quit. Since he has pain, he needs to learn how to deal with it, find boots that fit and likely have to fix boots so that they will fit. Most folks don't like pain, but it does tend to separate out the non-believers from the believers. Ultimately, he is the one to decide. But placating his pain is not going to work in the long run if he is determined. Imo if he is determined to be a snowboarder, he will appreciate and consider straight-up good information. Maybe he only thinks he wants to be a snowboarder. Btw, remember (or maybe you don't know) we have a gal that doesn't even have a foot and lower leg and still managed to be a rider.


----------



## Elevation212 (Apr 21, 2019)

So do we think OP quit?


----------



## SEWiShred (Jan 19, 2019)

wrathfuldeity said:


> Well snowboarding is where pain is a motivator to learn, not an encouragement to quit. Since he has pain, he needs to learn how to deal with it, find boots that fit and likely have to fix boots so that they will fit. Most folks don't like pain, but it does tend to separate out the non-believers from the believers. Ultimately, he is the one to decide. But placating his pain is not going to work in the long run if he is determined. Imo if he is determined to be a snowboarder, he will appreciate and consider straight-up good information. Maybe he only thinks he wants to be a snowboarder. Btw, remember (or maybe you don't know) we have a gal that doesn't even have a foot and lower leg and still managed to be a rider.


You're going to get hurt snowboarding. Normally you get hurt when you do something wrong. When you are in pain because of your boots, it's discouraging because you're feeling pain when you're not doing anything wrong. There's a big difference between "whoops I fucked up and hurt my wrists or have an AC separation or something" as opposed to "That run was great, I made a lot of progress in my technique but my feet are killing me because these boots don't fit well."


----------



## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

SEWiShred said:


> You're going to get hurt snowboarding. Normally you get hurt when you do something wrong. When you are in pain because of your boots, it's discouraging because you're feeling pain when you're not doing anything wrong. There's a big difference between "whoops I fucked up and hurt my wrists or have an AC separation or something" as opposed to "That run was great, I made a lot of progress in my technique but my feet are killing me because these boots don't fit well."


Agree. Just pointing out that first things first need to be done due to foot pain, OP really needs to address this and for him there is no easy way around his issue... perhaps the only easy way (which will be difficult) is to address it straight on.


----------



## NoirX252 (Aug 1, 2009)

I have really messed up feet. I exceed 6E width on shoes because my foot is wide in the wrong spots.
To make it worse; I am a mondo-point 25.5.
Despite them being floppy, the Burton Photon BOA wides have worked for me; I even downsized to 25mp (7) for them.

I also ride hardboots; I downsize to 24mp and can probablly downsize one more for a really close fit. I do not need shell work and just simply get by with an Intuition liner.

I'm sure there is an option for the OP available. Especially if they go hardboots and do really crazy custom shell modifications.

I guess shopping for boots when you have messed up feet is like a female teen with a trust fund looking for that perfect prom dress; just a PITA and too many hours spent.


----------



## Ricola (Sep 13, 2021)

Benzzz said:


> Hey all
> I have been snow boarding for a couple of seasons but have been held back heavily by being in foot agony 100% of the time im on the slopes.
> 
> I have outrageously wide feet because of bunnionettes (pinky toe sided bunions). I have tried a few boots previously with out success.
> ...


But if you go to skiing you'll be in hard ski boots, maybe even harder to fit. ?


----------



## philw (8 mo ago)

I don't have messed up feet, but I could never get rid of the pain of soft boots. Anyone saying "man up, ignore it", obviously doesn't understand the issue. Sorels are fine on a no-board, but for everything else I use Atomic Backlands + Phantom levers, which for me were perfectly comfortable out of the box, weigh next to nothing and don't break. At the end of a long day I'll be the one forgetting I'm wearing my boots - they're _that _comfortable.


----------



## Benzzz (Dec 13, 2020)

NoirX252 said:


> I have really messed up feet. I exceed 6E width on shoes because my foot is wide in the wrong spots.
> To make it worse; I am a mondo-point 25.5.
> Despite them being floppy, the Burton Photon BOA wides have worked for me; I even downsized to 25mp (7) for them.
> 
> ...


Excuse my ignorance but what are "hard" and "soft" boots ?


----------



## Benzzz (Dec 13, 2020)

Elevation212 said:


> So do we think OP quit?


Not yet, the season has not yet started where i am, but i have made no progress, i only just realised that if i put my foot into the empty shell without the liner my foot touches the side walls of it !


----------



## 16gkid (Dec 5, 2012)

Benzzz said:


> Not yet, the season has not yet started where i am, but i have made no progress, i only just realised that if i put my foot into the empty shell without the liner my foot touches the side walls of it !


Damn boi, you thicc 😂


----------



## Manicmouse (Apr 7, 2014)

Benzzz said:


> Excuse my ignorance but what are "hard" and "soft" boots ?


Hard boots are more like ski boots, made with a hard plastic shell and a liner.


----------



## Benzzz (Dec 13, 2020)

Wiredsport said:


> Hi,
> Please post up your four barefoot measurements and please let us know the boot size that you have been riding. That is all critical info to getting you started in the right direction.
> 
> STOKED!


Thanks for the reply! I hear you are the man and may be my best bet!

Boot: Burton Ruler Wide US 12 (photo posted of my foot next to the boot in original post, it just touches each side of the shell if i don't put the liner on.)

Right Foot: Length: 287mm
Right Foot: Width widest point: 115mm
Left Foot: Length: 285mm
Left Foot Width widest point 119mm 

thanks again !


----------



## Benzzz (Dec 13, 2020)

Manicmouse said:


> Hard boots are more like ski boots, made with a hard plastic shell and a liner.


wow i didnt know that was a thing for snowboarding, the reason that sounds like it could work is because i could get it custom made, and no matter how much searching i have done online i dont see custom made snowboard boots. The boot fitter didnt help me at all, heatmolded, stretched custom beds etc etc.


----------



## Benzzz (Dec 13, 2020)

Manicmouse said:


> I had to google bunionettes, yeah you're not cutting those off!


hahaha ye not without some difficulty. i posted a pic of my nasty ass foot in the original post.


----------



## Benzzz (Dec 13, 2020)

wrathfuldeity said:


> @Benzzz there is the old school ski boot era and the new AT hard boot era, two different things. And with only 2 seasons in...kind of doubt if AT boots are going to be a good way to go. Mainly because you don't know what, how to fit and what performance you want. BA's notes about finding a competent boot fitter, working with and paying for is money well spent. In fact, go to THE go to boot fitter first and ask for an assessment and recommendation of what brand/model that might work for you...and tip them well for the service and information. At this point you are asking for a bunch of web weirdos that have a particular fetish that is perhaps worse than Imelda's. Yup we are knowledge about our tootsies... but have not yet fondled yours. However wiredsport and BA are our go to wiredos that have decades of experience between them.
> 
> I've taken the dive into AT boots and can't see myself ever going back to softboots, except for shits and giggles for retro daze. But they are a no go. Infact will likely give away 3 pairs of bindings and a couple 32's to the local kid's ski/snowboard swap next week. Anyway, the link below is my AT boot journey mainly as a bread crumb trail for potential enthusiasts.
> 
> The hardboot ride...downhill? | Snowboarding Forum - Snowboard Enthusiast Forums


Thanks for the reply!
I would honestly pay good money to get individual help, the boot fitter in my area was basically useless, and every store that sells snowboard boots tells me i just need to break them in, they are clearly clueless to my issue of course I can't break in something that is physically too small for my foot.
I don't think custom fitters exist ? Only for foot beds and liners where i need a wider shell.


----------



## NoirX252 (Aug 1, 2009)

My feet touches the side of my boots without the liner as well.

As for for length, my feet touches the tip of the boots, always. In hardboots, if I don't trim my nails, I will feel it.


----------



## NoirX252 (Aug 1, 2009)

Just saw your pic. My feet are definitely more messed up than yours by a pretty big margin. Don't give up hope.


----------



## Benzzz (Dec 13, 2020)

NoirX252 said:


> Just saw your pic. My feet are definitely more messed up than yours by a pretty big margin. Don't give up hope.


what was your solution ?


----------



## NoirX252 (Aug 1, 2009)

Benzzz said:


> Thanks for the reply! I hear you are the man and may be my best bet!
> 
> Foot:
> Length: 282mm
> ...


Fyi. 
255mm give or take pending on foot.
Widest point (which is mid foot for me), 105mm or so.

No one makes wide boots for width in the midfoot.
By the way, you should be in a 28/27.5/27 boot.


----------



## Benzzz (Dec 13, 2020)

NoirX252 said:


> Fyi.
> 255mm give or take pending on foot.
> Widest point (which is mid foot for me), 105mm or so.
> 
> ...


your width length ratio would be similar to mine then it seems ? My foot is just very wide at one point though and tapers off.
I dont fully understand what 28/27.5/27 are referring to ?


----------



## NoirX252 (Aug 1, 2009)

Benzzz said:


> what was your solution ?


The Burton Photon Boa wides work for me. 
For hardboots, it was aftermarket liners, like the Intuition Powerwrap; they are very thin in spots where my foot is high volume (which is pretty much everywhere).

Actually, have you considered custom after market liners for your boots? Use ones meant for softboots (regular snowboard boots).


----------



## NoirX252 (Aug 1, 2009)

SBC Wrap - Intuition Liners


Developed and tested with Team Canada Snowboard!




intuitionliners.com





^^^ I've heard good things about this.
I use their powerwrap liner for my hardboots. The link above is for both soft and hardboots.

Also, 28/27.5/27 refers to the mondo point of the boot you should be on. US 12 is too big (that is like mondo 30)


----------



## Benzzz (Dec 13, 2020)

NoirX252 said:


> The Burton Photon Boa wides work for me.
> For hardboots, it was aftermarket liners, like the Intuition Powerwrap; they are very thin in spots where my foot is high volume (which is pretty much everywhere).
> 
> Actually, have you considered custom after market liners for your boots? Use ones meant for softboots (regular snowboard boots).


I have not no, I figured the fact that my foot does not even fit into the shell would suggest that I need more room entirely (even if linerless was a practical option)


----------



## Manicmouse (Apr 7, 2014)

Mondopoint: Ski Boots Size Chart & Mondopoint Conversion | evo


----------



## El Cholo Rojo (3 mo ago)

Benzzz said:


> i posted a pic of my nasty ass foot in the original post.


Lmao gottem. Everyone knows this is low-key a feet forum.


----------



## Elevation212 (Apr 21, 2019)

El Cholo Rojo said:


> Lmao gottem. Everyone knows this is low-key a feet forum.


"Ye baby, keep posting those delicious feet pics for daddy" @Wiredsport probably


----------



## 16gkid (Dec 5, 2012)

Someone just made like $7.60 selling these feet pics, suckers


----------



## Anditwasstillhot (3 mo ago)

I’m sorry I didn’t go through the entire thread because there are so many so I apologize if someone has said this. I’ve had the same issues. Find out if you have high arches. Check wet feet on piece of paper. If you do get insoles. I did and it’s changed everything.


----------



## Benzzz (Dec 13, 2020)

Anditwasstillhot said:


> I’m sorry I didn’t go through the entire thread because there are so many so I apologize if someone has said this. I’ve had the same issues. Find out if you have high arches. Check wet feet on piece of paper. If you do get insoles. I did and it’s changed everything.


ye i got custom insoles, unfortunately that doesnt reduce the width of my feet though which is the real issue


----------



## Benzzz (Dec 13, 2020)

NoirX252 said:


> I have really messed up feet. I exceed 6E width on shoes because my foot is wide in the wrong spots.
> To make it worse; I am a mondo-point 25.5.
> Despite them being floppy, the Burton Photon BOA wides have worked for me; I even downsized to 25mp (7) for them.
> 
> ...


i forgot to ask what hardboot do you use ? im still not sure what they even look like, could you please post a picture of them ?


----------



## NoirX252 (Aug 1, 2009)

Track 425 Pro - Deeluxe


For those who crave speed, the Track 425 Pro is your partner in crime. This racehorse sports a symmetrical shell for maximum support and an aggressive feel.




deeluxe.com




I would suggest not doing this as these are generally for freecarving/racing. They do have softer flexing models in their range, but they are still relatively stiff.

I would suggest maybe something like




__





Tech Boots


While the term "hardbooting" is often used to describe the setup, Phantoms are designed to use lightweight alpine touring (AT) boots, not traditional "hardboots", like those designed for snowboard carving or racing. For many years, it's been a dream for all riders on a SplitTech system that...




www.phantomsnow.com





Or anything related to that area of snowboarding (splitboarding).


----------



## Benzzz (Dec 13, 2020)

NoirX252 said:


> Track 425 Pro - Deeluxe
> 
> 
> For those who crave speed, the Track 425 Pro is your partner in crime. This racehorse sports a symmetrical shell for maximum support and an aggressive feel.
> ...


damn thought i had an answer. 
in addition i am inexperienced so super stiff hard boots would probably be terrible. i love the idea that they cna just melt the plastic around the knobbly parts of my foot to make it fit though


----------



## NoirX252 (Aug 1, 2009)

Still there. The other ones like phantoms or things pertinent to splitboarding are very soft. IIRC, about as stiff as a Burton Driver X; except they are:

1. better for touring, since they can flex backwards for longer strides. (this is why professional splitboard guides wear hardboots).
2. They don't lose their flex in 10 days. Lifespan of a plastic boot is orders of magnitude more than a regular snowboard boot.

Just to be sure. Hardboot snowboarding is typically referred to for racing carving. The other "hardboots" we are talking about are much softer flexing, and are the choice for a number of professional splitboard guides.









Splitboarding in hardboots: A review after two intense seasons — Calvin Shackleton


It has been two intense seasons of backcountry splitboarding around Tromsø since I made the switch from a softboot to a hardboot setup on my splitboard. With over 31,000 m of mountain elevation ridden in the 2019/2020 winter season alone, and training for and taking part in the Arctic Splitboard Cha




www.calvinshackleton.com












Top Hardboots for Splitboarding for 2021 - Mountain Weekly News


So you're wanting to wear ski boots for splitboarding? Or just want a splitboard hardboot. My question is why? Having skied for many years and surfed




mtnweekly.com












The Rise of Hardboot Snowboarding


With the popularity splitboarding has gained in the past few years, snowboarders can finally get in the backcountry with their two-planked friends. But the set...




www.tetongravity.com


----------



## Benzzz (Dec 13, 2020)

NoirX252 said:


> Still there. The other ones like phantoms or things pertinent to splitboarding are very soft. IIRC, about as stiff as a Burton Driver X; except they are:
> 
> 1. better for touring, since they can flex backwards for longer strides. (this is why professional splitboard guides wear hardboots).
> 2. They don't lose their flex in 10 days. Lifespan of a plastic boot is orders of magnitude more than a regular snowboard boot.
> ...


thanks again for the replies,
Sadly I still have no clue what to do though, I thought the pro's would have people custom building boots for them i would literally pay 2000$


----------



## Rip154 (Sep 23, 2017)

Benzzz said:


> thanks again for the replies,
> Sadly I still have no clue what to do though, I thought the pro's would have people custom building boots for them i would literally pay 2000$







__





Black Snowboard | Pierre Gignoux Carbon Ski Boots







pierregignoux.fr




This guy could probably make 2000$ boots.


----------



## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

Benzzz said:


> Hey all
> I have been snow boarding for a couple of seasons but have been held back heavily by being in foot agony 100% of the time im on the slopes.
> 
> I have outrageously wide feet because of bunnionettes (pinky toe sided bunions). I have tried a few boots previously with out success.
> ...


Hi Benzzz,

You are Mondopoint 290 or size 11 in snowboard boots. Your smaller foot is Mondopoint 285 or size 10.5. You are an EEE width and your Wider foot is the largest measurement in the range for EEE. Typically the measurement would be an easy fit for a EEE boot such as the Burton Ruler Wide or ION Wide. Bunions can make thing tricky though. What size Ruler wides did you get?

STOKED!


----------



## Benzzz (Dec 13, 2020)

Wiredsport said:


> Hi Benzzz,
> 
> You are Mondopoint 290 or size 11 in snowboard boots. Your smaller foot is Mondopoint 285 or size 10.5. You are an EEE width and your Wider foot is the largest measurement in the range for EEE. Typically the measurement would be an easy fit for a EEE boot such as the Burton Ruler Wide or ION Wide. Bunions can make thing tricky though. What size Ruler wides did you get?
> 
> STOKED!


Hi, thanks for the reply.

US12 Ruler Wides.
I guess im out of options.


----------



## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

You will want the size 11's. Your foot will not line up correctly in a size 12. Your best option is going to be matching both your Mondopoint length and your width. That will position your foot correctly inside the boot shape. Your current boot set is 1.5 sizes too large for your wider foot. That is a big problem. This will allow motion within the boot which can cause a lot of pain. If customization is required, it is always best to work with a correctly sized boot.

STOKED!


----------



## Elevation212 (Apr 21, 2019)

Wiredsport said:


> You will want the size 11's. Your foot will not line up correctly in a size 12. Your best option is going to be matching both your Mondopoint length and your width. That will position your foot correctly inside the boot shape. Your current boot set is 1.5 sizes too large for your wider foot. That is a big problem. This will allow motion within the boot which can cause a lot of pain. If customization is required, it is always best to work with a correctly sized boot.
> 
> STOKED!


facts, my arches killed me until I dropped from a 12 to 11 all pain went away once my feet stopped shifting


----------



## Benzzz (Dec 13, 2020)

Wiredsport said:


> You will want the size 11's. Your foot will not line up correctly in a size 12. Your best option is going to be matching both your Mondopoint length and your width. That will position your foot correctly inside the boot shape. If customization is required, it is always best to work with a correctly sized boot.
> 
> STOKED!


Just to clarify, without the liner, the size 12 shell touches my bare foot on both sides. I can just about feel the front of the boot on my big toe with the liner on. Im not sure if there is a discrepancy in the way i measured my foot but i find it so tough to believe a smaller boot will fit my bunion. The boot is quite uniform in shape and only curves close to the toes.

What sort of customisations would you suggest ? The ski boot fitter i went to tried to stretch that area of the boot but said it would delaminate if he went further.


----------



## Benzzz (Dec 13, 2020)

Elevation212 said:


> facts, my arches killed me until I dropped from a 12 to 11 all pain went away once my feet stopped shifting


makes sense, mine dont shift whatsoever though, they are squashed into place so much that after an hour of pain it goes numb cause of the loss of circulation.


----------



## Elevation212 (Apr 21, 2019)

Benzzz said:


> Just to clarify, without the liner, the size 12 shell touches my bare foot on both sides. I can just about feel the front of the boot on my big toe with the liner on. Im not sure if there is a discrepancy in the way i measured my foot but i find it so tough to believe a smaller boot will fit my bunion. The boot is quite uniform in shape and only curves close to the toes.
> 
> What sort of customisations would you suggest ? The ski boot fitter i went to tried to stretch that area of the boot but said it would delaminate if he went further.


I’ll let @Wiredsport weigh in but in my experience when I get new boots I have a snug boardering on uncomfortable snugness across my toes and across my foot, over 5-10 days the liner breaks in and then my foot fits snuggly with full contact of foot to liner, this is optimal, once I start feeling space it means my foot will shift and it’s time for new liners/boots

now if you have contact pain that’s another issue that others will need to address, how do your street shoes work? Painful?


----------



## Benzzz (Dec 13, 2020)

Elevation212 said:


> I’ll let @Wiredsport weigh in but in my experience when I get new boots I have a snug boardering on uncomfortable snugness across my toes and across my foot, over 5-10 days the liner breaks in and then my foot fits snuggly with full contact of foot to liner, this is optimal, once I start feeling space it means my foot will shift and it’s time for new liners/boots
> 
> now if you have contact pain that’s another issue that others will need to address, how do your street shoes work? Painful?


i only wear stretchy fly knit trainers.
or shoes that look like boats haha


----------



## Benzzz (Dec 13, 2020)

Benzzz said:


> Just to clarify, without the liner, the size 12 shell touches my bare foot on both sides. I can just about feel the front of the boot on my big toe with the liner on. Im not sure if there is a discrepancy in the way i measured my foot but i find it so tough to believe a smaller boot will fit my bunion. The boot is quite uniform in shape and only curves close to the toes.
> 
> What sort of customisations would you suggest ? The ski boot fitter i went to tried to stretch that area of the boot but said it would delaminate if he went further.


I just put the liner on barefooted and my big toe touches the front of the liner, definitely not the outer shell !


----------



## Elevation212 (Apr 21, 2019)

Benzzz said:


> i only wear stretchy fly knit trainers.
> or shoes that look like boats haha


ahh yeah my man unfortunately I don’t think you are going to find a boot option with no contact of foot to liner, hardboots will most likely be just as bad, have you been the the peodatrist? Sounds like a huge bummer


----------



## Benzzz (Dec 13, 2020)

Elevation212 said:


> ahh yeah my man unfortunately I don’t think you are going to find a boot option with no contact of foot to liner, hardboots will most likely be just as bad, have you been the the peodatrist? Sounds like a huge bummer


ye he just gave me custom insoles.


----------



## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

Benzzz said:


> Just to clarify, without the liner, the size 12 shell touches my bare foot on both sides. I can just about feel the front of the boot on my big toe with the liner on. Im not sure if there is a discrepancy in the way i measured my foot but i find it so tough to believe a smaller boot will fit my bunion. The boot is quite uniform in shape and only curves close to the toes.
> 
> What sort of customisations would you suggest ? The ski boot fitter i went to tried to stretch that area of the boot but said it would delaminate if he went further.


Hi,

Your width as measured above is wide, but not unusually so, even with the bunion width included. We see a lot of EEE measurements here and those can be accommodated by the correct boots. If you are unsure of your measurements please post 4 images showing each of your measurements being taken. Please show the wall, the measuring tool and your whole foot in each image. Bunions can be very sensitive and can cause pain. The best we can do in those instances is to keep the foot itself from moving inside the boot. 

I would not suggest any modification until you are in the correct boot size. Wearing a boot that is 1.5 sizes too large will not work. 

STOKED!


----------



## Benzzz (Dec 13, 2020)

Wiredsport said:


> Hi,
> 
> Your width as measured above is wide, but not unusually so, even with the bunion width included. We see a lot of EEE measurements here and those can be accommodated by the correct boots. If you are unsure of your measurements please post 4 images showing each of your measurements being taken. Please show the wall, the measuring tool and your whole foot in each image. Bunions can be very sensitive and can cause pain. The best we can do in those instances is to keep the foot itself from moving inside the boot.
> 
> ...


Hi WiredsSport. I would like to thank you again for helping me, I have added the photos here, I have also included a photo of me standing in the liner outlining my big toe which is pressing into the end of it, if i was to go for a smaller boot, my toe would certainly not fit, im really confused at the suggestion to go smaller, it also does not feel like my feet move whatsoever inside the boot.


----------



## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

Benzzz said:


> Hi WiredsSport. I would like to thank you again for helping me, I have added the photos here, I have also included a photo of me standing in the liner outlining my big toe which is pressing into the end of it, if i was to go for a smaller boot, my toe would certainly not fit, im really confused at the suggestion to go smaller, it also does not feel like my feet move whatsoever inside the boot.


Hi Benzzzz,

We should really see your 2 barefoot width measurements as well. Your foot length is an easy fit in Mondopoint 290 or size 11 US in snowboard boots. One foot is actually size 10.5 and the other is Mid range for size 11. Aside from your Bunion your foot is not really unusual provided that we address the width issue. We see a lot of EEE feet. Real trouble begins above EEE where no manufacturers provide products. Please post your 2 barefoot width measurements images so we can be triple sure.

STOKED!


----------



## Benzzz (Dec 13, 2020)

Wiredsport said:


> Hi Benzzzz,
> 
> We should really see your 2 barefoot width measurements as well. Your foot length is an easy fit in Mondopoint 290 or size 11 US in snowboard boots. One foot is actually size 10.5 and the other is Mid range for size 11. Aside from your Bunion your foot is not really unusual provided that we address the width issue. We see a lot of EEE feet. Real trouble begins above EEE where no manufacturers provide products. Please post your 2 barefoot width measurements images so we can be triple sure.
> 
> STOKED!


widths are attached.
Why is it that its the bunion side and baby toe are in pain and then after 2 hours become numb if the boot is sized correctly ? I cant get my head around that logic.
My big toe presses into the liner with my US 12, with 11 i think ill have to bend my big toe to fit it in.

thanks again


----------



## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

Hi,

We cannot use tracings for measurements. Please watch this video to see how to measure accurately.  STOKED!


----------



## Benzzz (Dec 13, 2020)

Wiredsport said:


> Hi,
> 
> We cannot use tracings for measurements. Please watch this video to see how to measure accurately. STOKED!


Right foot width according to the video guidelines: 113mm
Left foot width according to the video guidelines: 116mm


----------



## YawgooBread (2 mo ago)

Honestly, maybe try to get your next pair molded at a different shop. I wonder if it was an error on their part and the fit needs to be corrected.


----------



## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

Benzzz said:


> Right foot width according to the video guidelines: 113mm
> Left foot width according to the video guidelines: 116mm


Hi Benzzz,

Got it. Your feet are EE and EEE width. The EEE width foot is Mid range for EEE so you have plenty of headroom there. The Burton Ion Wide, Burton Ruler Wide, and 32 TM2 Wide are all great choices for you in Mondo 290 or US Size 11.

STOKED!


----------



## Benzzz (Dec 13, 2020)

Wiredsport said:


> Hi Benzzz, Got it. Your feet are EE and EEE width. The EEE width foot is Mid range for EEE so you have plenty of headroom there. The Burton Ion Wide, Burton Ruler Wide, and 32 TM2 Wide are all great choices for you in Mondo 290 or US Size 11. STOKED!


 thanks again ! So what is your advice if you were me ? Sell the ruler wide us12 and buy one of the above hoping for the best ? No modifications ?


----------



## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

Hi,

Mondo 290 is your size at EEE width. That is the start point. Get your heat fit done in the stock insoles and ride through the two week break in period. Boots will pack out about 1 ful cm (1 full size) during that period. After that, if you need to modify, you will have the correct platform to do so.

STOKED!


----------



## Pablo$ (Oct 10, 2020)

Why do I keep clicking this thread? 1 quitter = 1 less person I might need to deal with on the hill.

STOKED!


----------

