# Questions for you (ahem snowolf)



## Grizz (Nov 10, 2008)

Right, not ideal learning conditions.

When you say you tried riding goofy and regular, did you actually take the bindings off and remount them in the new stance or did you just ride switch? If the board is a directional twin or a true directional that could come into play. 

Also with your bindings at 20/10 it's going to be uncomfortable riding in one direction and might play a large part in why you dominant stance is goofy but you feel more in control riding regular. Change you angles to 15/-9 or 12/-12 for a start and experiment from there. 

As for width, at home (without wearing a board), take three or four large hops straight up. On the last one try and land in your most stable stance. Have someone measure it(from the center of one foot to the center of the other)and the distance should be a good place to start experimenting with stance width from.

The bottom line is... get your gear set up balanced and stable so all you need to focus on is making that f'er turn.


----------



## snowjeeper (Nov 11, 2008)

Yeah I actually switched the bindings around so the first time they were set up goofy, but I always ended up going down the hill switch ( so left foot forward) then I switched the bindings to regular stance. The boards were *I think* all mountain freestyle. So it looked like a twin design, but the bindings were definitely set back towards the end of the board.
Thanks!


----------



## Guest (Nov 23, 2008)

Try this. Measure from the center of your knee to the bottom of your foot., (note the measurment) Now, measure the width of your shoulders at the shoulder sockets (rotator cuff) Then, stand with your feet together and move you back foot slowly back an inch at a time util you feel your weight is centered 50/50 on each foot. Now take an average of all three measurements and set you stance this wide.

In regard to stance angles, this is a personal preference but a duck stance seems best suited to help give you a neutral stance with your weight centered between your feet as you flex, extend and rotate when riding.. 
My stance angles have evolved over the years as most riders do as they learn and progress.

Hard conditions are very un forgiving to poor technique, As soft comditions are very forgiving to questionable technique... translation?? Learn on a soft pow pow day,. your tail bone will be glad you did... Are you Shreddy??


----------



## snowjeeper (Nov 11, 2008)

Snowolf said:


> Well, Grizz covered all the things I would have asked you. This is definitely a little unusual so we need to get more info. First off, does riding goofy feel the most natural when you are skating and gliding one footed?


Yes, absolutely feels better, more natural and stable. I had no problems getting off the lift riding goofy.


Snowolf said:


> How about getting on and off the chairlift? Often a beginner who has no real dominant foot, will not be sure what is best for them. Ok, this question is going to sound dumb and a little insulting, but it has to be asked; Did you check to be certain that the board was being ridden in the correct direction? If it is a directional with a set back stance that is set up back wards this could happen.


Well the top of the board had BURTON on it, so if you looked down you could read it normally, I assume that's the front of the board.


Snowolf said:


> Additionally, are the bindings mounted evenly (in other words are the same set of inserts being used in front and rear)?


That i am not sure about, how do I check that?


Snowolf said:


> Barring any of this, sometimes eyesight plays a role. There is such a things as dominant eye. It could be that your left eye is dominant. I am a regular rider and have a very dominant left eye. I prefer this eye for use with a rifle scope or telescope.


I'm not sure about this, I'm generally right everything, my left hand is retarded, my left foot is retarded. I literally hit my left foot on things while i'm walking because it's always just kinda out there.



Thanks for your help so far! Hopefully I can figure out if it was the setup or me leading to these problems. the other times I've ridden this hasn't happened. But I definitely was better this time overall.


----------



## snowjeeper (Nov 11, 2008)

I'm somewhat duck footed anyway, my feet stick out at angles because of years of soccer. So I'll definitely change the bindings to be ducky next time. I'll also do the measurements you recommend. Thanks guys! you're super awesome.


----------



## Flick Montana (Jul 9, 2007)

Ducky is a solid stance. I ride 15/-15 and it's pretty solid. You can ensure that your bindings are centered when you put them on the board. Just make sure they are both on matching screw holes. Unless your board is drilled off center, you'll be fine.

Also, since your left foot is the clumsy one, you would think you are right handed and would ride normal and not goofy. But what do I know? I'm not an instructor.


----------



## snowjeeper (Nov 11, 2008)

ok that's good to know, yeah i kick with the right foot. See I assumed it was the front foot leading, so that's why you'd want your dominant foot in front?


----------



## WhistlerBound (Aug 24, 2008)

Snowolf said:


> I am right handed, have a dominant left eye and ride regular...:dunno:


Hmm, same, but I can use scissors with my left hand just as well as my right and hold my coffee mug with my left hand ... :dunno:


----------



## Guest (Nov 24, 2008)

WhistlerBound said:


> Hmm, same, but I can use scissors with my left hand just as well as my right and hold my coffee mug with my left hand ... :dunno:


 Yeah matey but your an ozzie wanka from down unda Tazzie land where toilet bowls swirl in the opposite direction so your a freak :cheeky4: just joshing ya bastard!! ha ha:laugh:


did you buy a sled yet?? when are u going to whistler cobber?


----------



## Guest (Nov 24, 2008)

snowjeeper said:


> ok that's good to know, yeah i kick with the right foot. See I assumed it was the front foot leading, so that's why you'd want your dominant foot in front?


NOPE! (generally speaking as their are exceptions to this rule) but, IF you are right leg dominant.. ie. kick, throw bat with your right hand, or foot YOUR LEFT leg IS the stronger leg and should ride forward.. (regular) Think about it!! Your right leg which may be more coordinated, Is generally weaker than the leg you use to brace and support right side dominant activities and indiviuals...

I just want to stress that this is a generalization and not set in stone.... It seems to be true most of the time.


----------



## Guest (Nov 24, 2008)

oneplankawanka said:


> NOPE! (generally speaking as their are exceptions to this rule) but, IF you are right leg dominant.. ie. kick, throw bat with your right hand, or foot YOUR LEFT leg IS the stronger leg and should ride forward.. (regular) Think about it!! Your right leg which may be more coordinated, Is generally weaker than the leg you use to brace and support right side dominant activities and indiviuals...
> 
> I just want to stress that this is a generalization and not set in stone.... It seems to be true most of the time.


true i play soccer with my right foot but my stance is regular


----------



## Celt943 (Sep 22, 2007)

Snow jeeper, I Don't mean to highjack your thread, but have a question for snowolf. When you guys talk about using the same holes for the front and rear binding, that only works if your stance is the same width as the boards default right? My stance for instance is only 19.5" and the default holes on my directional twin Rome board would give me a 21" stance. Am I doing something wrong by moving my front binding back 1 set of holes and my rear binding forward 1 set to get the 19.5" that I need??


----------



## snowjeeper (Nov 11, 2008)

no, that's a great question and one I would've asked next time i go boarding lol.


----------



## Grizz (Nov 10, 2008)

Another way to describe the hole issue. It all relates to the center of the inserts.

:::::: C ::::::

If you are mounting the back binding on the first four inserts closest to the center you should mount the front binding on the first four inserts closest to center. 

For any other stance width just make both your front and back bindings the same distance from center.

Rules are made to be broken. When? Sometimes on hard snow I like my bindings off set a little towards the nose for aggressive turn initiation. Sometimes in deep powder, on a traditional cambered twin shape, I'll move the bindings a little towards the tail for more tip float.

In general having your bindings centered is a good place to start. Once you master the basics you should experiment with different setups.


----------



## Grizz (Nov 10, 2008)

Celt943 said:


> Am I doing something wrong by moving my front binding back 1 set of holes and my rear binding forward 1 set to get the 19.5" that I need??


Not at all, you'll still be symmetrical with the center of the inserts. Moving one binding changes the distance by .75 so moving both = 1.5". You should be dialed.

::::: - ::::: If this is 21"

::::: - ::::: Here is 19.5"


----------



## Flick Montana (Jul 9, 2007)

falconis said:


> true i play soccer with my right foot but my stance is regular


That's the way it is supposed to be. I always assumed it was because the more coordinated leg needed to be the one to guide the board. My right leg works a lot harder on the back of the board that my left one does. I never put more weight on my left leg just because it is in front and I've never felt my left leg was stronger OR more coordinated. In fact, my whole left side is pretty much just there for symmetry purposes.


----------



## Guest (Nov 25, 2008)

Flick Montana said:


> That's the way it is supposed to be. I always assumed it was because the more coordinated leg needed to be the one to guide the board. My right leg works a lot harder on the back of the board that my left one does. I never put more weight on my left leg just because it is in front and I've never felt my left leg was stronger OR more coordinated. In fact, my whole left side is pretty much just there for symmetry purposes.


Your different body parts have to work in coordination with one another in order for you to function. In this case, if you're right leg dominant then it is weaker because your body will always tend to use your left leg for bracing and balancing. So the result is that while your right leg is more coordinated than your left, your left is stronger because it's always been put to use as the counterpart for the right legs movements. So your left leg (and side of the body) develops the muscles and coordination necessary for balance and strength more as you grow and/or workout as the right leg (and side of the body) develops the different muscles that allow for better motor control more.

A couple of dominance tests that are fairly easy:
For your legs, put on a pair of socks and slide across a bare floor. Which ever food trails behind is your dominant one.
For your eyes, with both eyes open, hold one finger up (point at the ceiling) and then pick a point on a wall. Then close one eye at a time. One of the eyes will continue to stay lined up with the point you chose while the other will line up with your finger in a different location. The one that stays lined up is your dominant. 
And we all know which hand is dominant.


----------



## Snowjoe (Jul 3, 2007)

You know the whole working out what stance you are by kicking a soccer ball just doesn't work well at all. On the mountain there are many many more goofy riders as a percentage than there are left footed soccer players. Left footers really are the minority wheras goofy riders are out in force.


----------



## snowjeeper (Nov 11, 2008)

Yeah last time I was out, it was 50% goofy. How do you tell which hand is "dominant"? Is that the hand holding the whip?


----------



## Snowjoe (Jul 3, 2007)

The one you use to give yourself a J Arthur.


----------



## Snowjoe (Jul 3, 2007)

What I was saying is by this logic it would seem that left footed players would be goofy. However the gap between the goofy riders and amount of people who play soccer left footed is very different. At my mountain goofy riders are probably around 40%, however a soccer team is lucky to have just 1 player who is left footed. If it went by feet then the amount of goofy riders would be down around the 5-10% mark, in all my years of playing soccer in parks and school only myself and one other friend are left footed. We had this argument with rentals at the hill, asked most of the goofy riders which foot they kick with and the majority are right footed.

If I had my way the very basic beginner decks would be true twins and bindings set at 12 -12 or something just for the first day, so if they turn out to be the other stance no messing around is needed, just ride the board backwards. Then once they have their stance dialled they can get back on a directional board.


----------



## Snowjoe (Jul 3, 2007)

Yeah it can be hard to see as most pro's can hit it left footed because of so much practice, I guess just like training switch, but most peoples left foot resembles a balloon being deflated! I'm lucky enough to be blessed with being able to kick with both feet. Although thinking about it maybe there is a bit of truth in it. Before I probably have over exaggerated the amount of goofy riders on the hill, and I guess when kids learn to kick they could well often be copying people they see kick right footed, so they don't use the left foot because they think its bad to kick with that foot and learn with their right, maybe there's a hidden underclass of lefties who have been stunted in their kicking education! Rafael Nadal is right handed, but learnt to play tennis with his left hand on purpose, I would kind of like to see him hit with his natural right hand and see how good he is. I always see alot more left handed ice hockey players than there should be going by the proportion of the general public, do they learn that way on purpose of what? Are there kids learning snowboarding who think it's cool to be different so learn goofy on purpose to say they're goofy.

Sorry I've gone off on some mad tangent!

One thing I also see alot is, kids especially, are less concerned about their stance and prefer to do their turns in the direction they feel most comfortable rotating, so they just end up turning in 360's down the hill. 

Then those pesky guys who have skateboarded their whole lives and insist on pushing mongo, now they ARE crazy!


----------



## Guest (Dec 8, 2008)

Tell someone to sneak up from behind and push you when you're not expecting it. What ever foot you put in front to catch yourself should be your lead foot. not sure how true it is but i heard it a long time ago.


----------



## Jenzo (Oct 14, 2008)

HuskyKid42 said:


> Tell someone to sneak up from behind and push you when you're not expecting it. What ever foot you put in front to catch yourself should be your lead foot. not sure how true it is but i heard it a long time ago.


Yea I don't know about that soccer thing, to kick a soccer ball with my left foot would be very akward, however, I ride goofy (right foot forward). When I learned to ride may moons ago it just left a lot more natural.
I keep wanting to play guitar and box lefty as well, yet I'm right handed.. maybe I'm just like, screwed up! :dunno:


----------



## Grizz (Nov 10, 2008)

Snowolf said:


> Here is a thought I had for awhile now and wanted to run this by some fellow instructors...
> 
> What about having a skate board handy in the rental center. Let the person try it out to see which way they felt was more comfortable. When I skate, just like ride, I can tell without a shadow of a doubt which way I feel best. My first time on a skate board I knew instantly what way I wanted to ride. Why not have a couple of cheapo Wall Mart boards down in the rental center and if someone is not sure, let them skate up the hall with it and find out?
> 
> Just an idea I have been thinking about for awhile now.


It's a good thought. I think the lawyers might have a problem with it. 

I've always liked the "imagine your going to run, and slide across a slippery ice rink or a linoleum floor in your socks" to determine stance.

The push from behind has some problems. It's aggressive, and if you don't push exactly dead center in their back it can influence which foot they step out with. 

I think the best way for dealing with the issue is to set the board up in a centered duck stance, on a twin, with both bindings using the same angle towards the nose or tail. When they get outside let them go with what feels best even if it takes a little experimentation. It's usually pretty obvious who should be what or if it matters at all.


----------



## max_tm (Dec 7, 2008)

I completely agree with the socks on the linoleum floor thing. Picked it up a few years ago and have used it ever since.


----------



## snowjeeper (Nov 11, 2008)

maybe i'm just a freak, but sliding either foot forward seems almost the same to me. hehe. but we've already gone over that before. once I get my own board I'll experiment more.


----------



## Grizz (Nov 10, 2008)

snowjeeper said:


> maybe i'm just a freak, but sliding either foot forward seems almost the same to me.


Not to freaky. I'd guess 30-40% of first timers are like that.


----------



## Guest (Dec 9, 2008)

Snowolf said:


> Here is a thought I had for awhile now and wanted to run this by some fellow instructors...
> 
> What about having a skate board handy in the rental center. Let the person try it out to see which way they felt was more comfortable. When I skate, just like ride, I can tell without a shadow of a doubt which way I feel best. My first time on a skate board I knew instantly what way I wanted to ride. Why not have a couple of cheapo Wall Mart boards down in the rental center and if someone is not sure, let them skate up the hall with it and find out?
> 
> Just an idea I have been thinking about for awhile now.


i hate to poke a really big whole in this theroy but i have a good freind who skates goofy and rides regular.


----------



## Guest (Dec 9, 2008)

all of these suggestions are just that..There is no aboslute, just techniques that will HELP you determine what might work.

I have found that generally if you are right side dominant, you will be regular. If you are left side dominant then you are probably goofy. There are exceptions to this rule,and as intructors we see this regularly....in my expperience in woman.... for some reason.

At work we NEVER PUSH A CUSTOMER TO MAKE THIS DETERMINATION.;....NEVER EVER. I like Grizz's suggestion...

beginners may change their leading foot several times during a lesson.. encourage them to go with what feels natural an comfortable... after all, they have to ride the board and no formula for determinning which foot should be forward is correct if the rider does not feel comfy doing so... So, let them try with either foot leading. but don't be overly concerned about it... the proper leading foot will come to light eventually.


----------



## Guest (Dec 10, 2008)

sorry if someone already posted this but stand with feet next to each other. Jump as high as you can in place. The foot that lands in front is your dominant foot and should go down the hill first.


----------



## Guest (Dec 10, 2008)

Snowolf said:


> Good point! Along this same line, I had a kid who skated mongo and I could not convince him to skate with a snowboard with the front foot strapped in. He would leave the back foot strapped in and push mongo on the board as well. I had him try the "correct" way and the poor kid could stay upright, so I had him just do what worked.
> 
> Our rental boards are set up so that it is super easy to spin the bindings around. For me, this is one of the reasons I still like to spend a little time with the falling leaf exercise even though AASI is tending to discourage it. It is the perfect time for the student to discover which direction they feel is most comfortable with.


do you work at hood??


----------



## Guest (Dec 10, 2008)

Where does AASI discourage the falling leaf?? specifically?? I have never come across this, and have only heard you mention that some Colorado division of AASI was discouraging it?? please explain Wolf?? and call me please...


----------



## Guest (Dec 10, 2008)

at my resort, we've bumped the default lesson length up to full-day and, while we continue to offer half-days, we are strongly encouraging people to consider taking a full-day lesson, especially at level 1.

i find that, in a typical 3-hour level 1 lesson, i can normally get people to turning on both edges with a traverse between turns but, sometimes a class will get to falling leaf in 3 hours and time is up. after that, the first thing they do is head out on the hill to practice what they've learned.

i completely agree wiht your comments on its importance as a step in the progression.

alasdair


----------



## Grizz (Nov 10, 2008)

I don't see anything wrong with having the falling leaf stashed away in your bag of tricks. I also completely understand the point of not wanting people to use it as their default method of decent when they should be linking turns. I would hope most of the people we see doing this are "self" or "friend" taught and not instructor taught. I can only hope I live to see a day of no "scrapers" on a powder morning.

You may have covered this in the other post but here's a thought, all beginner terrain is not created equal. If I was teaching at an area that had a 5 degree beginners slope I would cut the FL out of my progression in most lessons. My teaching terrain is closer to 10 or 15 degrees so I frequently use it to keep speeds down. Having admitted to my FL use, I do try to move them past the FL and into linked turns as quickly as safety, snow conditions and the students athleticism allow.


----------



## Guest (Dec 11, 2008)

The heelside falling leaf is a skill you will use throughout your snowboarding career...It is a very valuable skill and it will get used. I understand that beginners will have a tendency to camp out on their heelside but I do not find it detrimental to a students progress.

It is then a good instructor's task to take advantage of that learned skill and then progressing to heel and toeside traverses and eventually fall line turn initiation drills.(garlands, chicken out turns etc.)

Sideslipping and the falling leaf get people sliding on the snow and feeling the stoke... If this is what it takes to get people comfy controling their speed, using gravity to stop and understanding how pressure distrribution and torsional steering effect board performance,then I will use the F leaf alot, but all students are different and a good instructor will use what he has in his bag of tricks to get the students to make the proper movements that will lead good board performance, and a good learning progression.

To demonize teaching the falling leaf is wrong and should be applied and taught on a case by case basis.

I use it alot because as I stated earlier, I find it a very important and valuable technique for getting folks comfy sliding and learning how to stop, and controlling their speed .... all with the reassuring feeling of facing down the hill, having everything in front on them, and in some case ME holing on to their hands and giving concurrent feedbackk as we practice our skills.

Don't poo poo the falling leaf!!!! I have found it to be a great tool and part of my beginning turn intitiation progression for new students... In closing, I would like to point out, that in my experience, students who cannot control their speed, or confidently stop will have have huge fear issues when you ask them to get the tip of their board close to the fall line and learn to initiate an edge change, and eventually linked turns.... This is where teaching the falling leaf FIRST is so valuable to me as an instructor.... and to my students.....Because it works!!!!


----------

