# Shell & Layering



## aleklevi (Nov 14, 2013)

Hi Everyone!

New to the forums here, figured I would see what you all think.

I typically snowboard in Vermont. I will be taking a trip to Tremblant and to Utah this winter. 

My old jacket was a Northface triclimate piece of crap that let water through. 

A lot of people have been suggesting that I get a really good "shell" and then layer underneath. Never done this before.

I found this shell that I like (fit and tech wise), what do you guys think?

Great Scott Jacket | Marmot.com

The next question, is how do I actually layer while keeping everything breathing and not sweaty? Can you point to an actual piece that I should buy to put between a base skin layer and this shell to keep warm. Should I just get a badass tri-climate where the layers zip in?

Thanks in advance.


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## Flee21 (Mar 16, 2013)

I usually just wear a 1/4 zip fleece over my base layer which seems to do the trick (I tend to run fairly warm though). If it's really cold I wear another mid weight layer then the fleece. I wear just a shell when I ride too.
Also, Marmot makes bad ass gear. Got a goretex rain jacket from them this past summer for hiking/camping and that thing held up like a champ.


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## Jed (May 11, 2011)

Basically what you want is a fleece (zip up or hoody, either works fine, but personally I find a hoody a little annoying under a jacket because the hood bunches up behind your back).

They come in all sorts of 'weights', which basically just means how thick the fleece is and how warm you want it to be.

So you can get a 1/4 weight fleece, 1/2 fleece etc, and how thick a fleece you want depends on you and how cold you get plus the temperatures at your local resort.

Personally I have one thick fleece and one thinner fleece and I just checked the temperature on the day I ride and pick the fleece I want based on how cold/warm it is that day.

Basically every snowboard company makes fleeces, just avoid normal cotton jumpers because they tend to get all sweaty and retain moisture.


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## aleklevi (Nov 14, 2013)

Thanks, this seems simple enough - just throw a decent fleece in the middle. 


How does the jacket I found look as my primary waterproof shell?


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## Derp (Feb 3, 2012)

I wear a UA 2.0 baselayer and the UA Charged Cotton Storm Mountain hoodie, followed by my Nike Foxhollow jacket. It can get pretty damn cold in Wisconsin and I've yet to be uncomfortable yet.

I know there are plenty of UA haters, but the Charged Cotton Storm hoodie I got is the shit. Regular fit so it doesn't bulk up under the jacket at all. Breathes great and water seriosuly just brushes right off of it. I wear it running in the rain and can walk inside, take it off, shake it, and it feels completely dry again.


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## Jed (May 11, 2011)

Looks like a solid shell to me. It's got your standard 10k/10k waterproof/breathability and the important part is it has fully taped seams.


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## trapper (Jan 15, 2013)

Are you sure the old shell is letting water through? It could be that you're getting soaked from the inside out from perspiration. You could go with something more breathable to eliminate that if it's the case. Also, that new jacket seems a tad heavy in that if you do get it soaked from sweat on the inside, it will take a lot longer to dry out than a thinner shell. Just something to think about from personal experience.


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## aleklevi (Nov 14, 2013)

Unfortunately, I'm 100% sure. With no activity and a bit of rain I would get wet.

Okay I'll try to look for a lighter jacker. Any recommendations?


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## trapper (Jan 15, 2013)

aleklevi said:


> Unfortunately, I'm 100% sure. With no activity and a bit of rain I would get wet.


Yeah I just replaced my old North Face Hyvent shell which was doing the same thing. Bummer, but I got several good years out of it.


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## Jed (May 11, 2011)

aleklevi said:


> Unfortunately, I'm 100% sure. With no activity and a bit of rain I would get wet.


Well if keeping rain out is your goal, you might want to think about a more waterproof shell.

10k/10k is okay and the fully taped seams is great, but you may want to look at a higher rated waterproof jacket if you ride in the rain.

In Whistler, we get the occasional wet/rainy day and there's a big difference in dryness between the guys riding 10k/10k shells and the guys with more heavy duty waterproof gore-tex (or one of the many similar high end fabrics) when we gather inside for lunch.


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## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

layering...you want to go loose and have the various opening options, pit and chest zips and etc.


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## Extremo (Nov 6, 2008)

Jed said:


> Basically what you want is a fleece (zip up or hoody, either works fine, but personally I find a hoody a little annoying under a jacket because the hood bunches up behind your back).
> 
> They come in all sorts of 'weights', which basically just means how thick the fleece is and how warm you want it to be.
> 
> ...


Agreed on the fleece. I layer in the following:

Baselayer: Heavyweight or lightweight depending on temps
Fleece Midlayer: 180g lightweight fleece for non-windy 20-30 degree days or 300g heavyweight fleece for windy single temp days. 
Outerlayer: Waterproof/windproof shell jacket. 

That pretty much covers all conditions where I'm at.


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## readimag (Aug 10, 2011)

This is what I have and I mix and match what I need for the day. Now this took me a little while to get this how I wanted it for everything I have seen. Right now is also a great time to look as they REALLY want to unload last years gear. Also look at gearscan and gear trader they have some good deals. I am about to sell my old arcteryx sidewinder on here this weekend if you want to wait and see if that works for you.

Shells
Arcteryx Sidewinder
Arcteryx Beta FL
Special Blend Utility
Bonfire jacket

Mid Layer
Arcteryx Atom LT
MTN Hardwear Compressor
Patagonia Capilene 1 silk top and bottom
Patagoina Capilene 2 top and bottom

Soft Shell Jackets
Neff daily
DC


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## poutanen (Dec 22, 2011)

FWIW, I wear upper body armour now, and run TOO HOT most of the time. Even wearing a shell I still get too hot. This is what I wear:

- Lululemon long sleeve shirt
- Demon Flex Force Pro Armour
- Jacket over top (shell 75% of the time, winter jacket for cold days)


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## Lamps (Sep 3, 2011)

http://www.snowboardingforum.com/outerwear-accessories/46026-mid-layer.html

http://www.snowboardingforum.com/ou...-insulation-outer-layer-versus-mid-layer.html

Two threads with good info. I like merino in general, for both base and mid layers


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## ShredLife (Feb 6, 2010)

poutanen said:


> - Lululemon long sleeve shirt


you just can't help yourself can you bro? did you get the pants to match? 



.... pics? :blink:


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## poutanen (Dec 22, 2011)

ShredLife said:


> you just can't help yourself can you bro? did you get the pants to match?
> 
> .... pics? :blink:


See see I support the brand that I love! :bowdown: Wish I had a pair of the MENS pants but I'm not coughing up $100 for pants that make my ass look oddly good. :blink:


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## kaborkian (Feb 1, 2010)

poutanen said:


> See see I support the brand that I love! :bowdown: Wish I had a pair of the MENS pants but I'm not coughing up $100 for pants that make my ass look oddly good. :blink:


Pictures!


Wait...that just sort of came out, happens anytime I read "ass look good...". Context is important...


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## kaborkian (Feb 1, 2010)

To the op: as already stated, unless in single digits, a light base layer like Under armor or light fitted fleece plus shell is plenty. If is really cold, add a mid layer fleece. Since it doesn't need to be wind proof, any cheap fleece is fine.


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## Hiltzy (Nov 14, 2013)

*Under Armour*



Derp said:


> I wear a UA 2.0 baselayer and the UA Charged Cotton Storm Mountain hoodie, followed by my Nike Foxhollow jacket. It can get pretty damn cold in Wisconsin and I've yet to be uncomfortable yet.
> 
> I know there are plenty of UA haters, but the Charged Cotton Storm hoodie I got is the shit. Regular fit so it doesn't bulk up under the jacket at all. Breathes great and water seriosuly just brushes right off of it. I wear it running in the rain and can walk inside, take it off, shake it, and it feels completely dry again.


I wish we could accept under armour because they are 
A. Crazy Affordable (on occasion)
B. Very Warm
C. Lots of mobility
D. I have an Under Armour jacket that outperforms my oakley jacket consistently but wont wear it because it just feels out of place, but sick graphic and everything. I got it 80% because nobody will buy their stuff.....


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## ridinbend (Aug 2, 2012)

My go to layering is a merino base layer.

Base: Arcteryx Eon slw short or long sleeve. 

Mid: Patagonia R1 grid fleece full zip no hood
(r1 at 6pm.com)

Stoic Breaker fleece
(Stoic Breaker Fleece Hooded Jacket - Men's | Backcountry.com)

Shell:Columbia peak2peak, Mammut Slope jacket, Volcom Landvik TDS

Spending a little extra dough for good layers is worth it if they will get used. Being warm and dry is essential. Merino layers wick sweat. The grid fleece also wicks very well. I am not a fan of synthetic layers personally, but that's because I sweat a lot.


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## anvilstrkr (Oct 26, 2013)

last year I got rid of the fleece and went with Patagonia Nano puff zip-up. They make it in a vest or jacket style. It comes in down insulation or a lighter one. I prefer it over a fleece because of the bulkiness of fleece and the weight.


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## Extremo (Nov 6, 2008)

anvilstrkr said:


> last year I got rid of the fleece and went with Patagonia Nano puff zip-up. They make it in a vest or jacket style. It comes in down insulation or a lighter one. I prefer it over a fleece because of the bulkiness of fleece and the weight.


I've been interested in these too...just worried that they're not breathable enough and I'd sweat my ass off then freeze on the way back up the lift. I might pick one up if I can find one cheap.


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## ridinbend (Aug 2, 2012)

Extremo said:


> I've been interested in these too...just worried that they're not breathable enough and I'd sweat my ass off then freeze on the way back up the lift. I might pick one up if I can find one cheap.


Nano Puff.

nano puff, Clothing at 6pm.com

and this guy always has deals:
http://dreammail.edgesuite.net/pata...a_Dillon_Webspecials_110413.pdf?sssdmh=dm23.0


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## killclimbz (Aug 10, 2007)

Nano puff's are awesome. As a base or mid layer though? Sounds awfully hot except on the coldest of days. 

You might try some power stretch fleece if bulk is an issue but you want maximum warmth. I use ps tops mid winter and just fleece pants. Can't bring myself to do ps pants. Ps is warm, breathes, and wicks very well. 

Nanos are great, I keep one in my pack when touring in a small stuff sack. Great on cold days when you stop for lunch or are waiting on a ride. Every now and then when it is super cold it does become a mid layer. I would probably do that more often if I was riding at the resort. So there is that.


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## ekb18c (Mar 11, 2013)

I picked up a nano puff vest and it's damm warm. 

On sale from O2 gear (last yr models but who cares!)

o2gearshop


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## aleklevi (Nov 14, 2013)

I picked up a nice gore-tex shell just now! I'm going to save money on the baselayer and use my old UA 1.0 coldgear stuff for a bit.

Just need a mid-layer right now. I found this at EMS, any thoughts on it? The puff is too expensive for me right now.

EMS Men's Vector Power Stretch 1/4 Zip - Eastern Mountain Sports


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## ShredLife (Feb 6, 2010)

without a doubt Patagonia makes the best insulating layers. be it a nano or micro puff, an R1 or an R4. their waffle-knitted shit like R1 is the best for me for shredding - but i haven't used a nano or micro for shred. i see a nano vest in my future. 

i rock the R1 pullover with a smartwool longsleeve t shirt + nike drifit or UA tshirt on the coldest days out here (under an Arc'Teryx shell). 

also have a DAS parka and a MH 800fill puffy for bc/emergency shit although neither is super packable and both are insanely warm. soon to be relegated to truck duty when nano is mine. 

i'll probably go micro vest+nano hoody.


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## readimag (Aug 10, 2011)

I had the Patagonia nano hooded jacket and sold it for the MH ghost whisperer hooded jacket cause it has 850 fill and weights in at 7.5 oz. Plus it packs down to the size of a softball it is perfect for boarding in the BC if I have to walk out at night as I dont have a split yet.


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## ShredLife (Feb 6, 2010)

readimag said:


> I had the Patagonia nano hooded jacket and sold it for the MH ghost whisperer hooded jacket cause it has 850 fill and weights in at 7.5 oz. Plus it packs down to the size of a softball it is perfect for boarding in the BC if I have to walk out at night as I dont have a split yet.


MH makes very good down gear. the subzero i have has better specs than pretty much any other jacket in its class, in fact its too warm for 95% of what i do.

going with Pat. if i renew my pro deals, if i just get lazy and pay for it in a store i'd look at MH's down for sure.


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## tony10 (Jun 15, 2013)

i usually wear a cold gear underarmour, a hoody, and then my 686 plexus hydra.. i board in VT and CT as well.


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## readimag (Aug 10, 2011)

ShredLife said:


> MH makes very good down gear. the subzero i have has better specs than pretty much any other jacket in its class, in fact its too warm for 95% of what i do.
> 
> going with Pat. if i renew my pro deals, if i just get lazy and pay for it in a store i'd look at MH's down for sure.


Yeah have both MH and Pat pro deals so I can pick and choose.


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## Deacon (Mar 2, 2013)

ekb18c said:


> I picked up a nano puff vest and it's damm warm.
> 
> On sale from O2 gear (last yr models but who cares!)
> 
> o2gearshop


You guys talked me into a nano puff jacket. Can't go wrong for $90, I suppose.


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## djmisio85 (Jan 22, 2013)

Thought I'd just chime in here. This year, bought myself a Quiksilver Mission Printed shell (wbb1 design only sold in Japan by the looks of it). I think the key to the layers should be tight breathable layers. If you can stand compression wear, try that and maybe a hoody or a thin fleece on top of that. I'm going to be wearing a Skins A200 Thermal l/s top which has very good breatheability and keeps you warm with a fleece lining. I guess as many people have mentioned, it's good to have a decent shell, because you can still wear it on a warmer day, just wear less layers underneath


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## rambob (Mar 5, 2011)

To the original guy asking about the Marmot shell: I got an old 2L Membrain Marmot Jacket and wore it alot for a few seasons. Membrain is good stuff, I always thought it breathed better then other brands' 2L stuff like entrant or intrex, conduit, etc. Works real well in the wet Pacific NW.


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## ju87 (Mar 9, 2011)

The Deacon said:


> You guys talked me into a nano puff jacket. Can't go wrong for $90, I suppose.


patagonia nano is one of my favorite pieces of gear, great for a mid-layer. highly recommended


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## Deimus85 (Dec 3, 2012)

I've been wearing Underarmour Base 2.0 Cold gear, a Wool sweater, and a Polyester Dri-Fit Tshirt underneath my outershell. If it gets colder, I would throw a longsleeve tshirt in there somewhere. I have always felt so heavy and bulky after all that gear was on.

I just picked up a 3XL UnderArmour Mountain Base 2.0 Cold Gear, and their Carbon Scent-Blocker Hunting Cold Gear crew neck in attempt to delete the Wool and longsleeve layer and lighten the load a bit. I am curious to see how layering up Cold Gear will work out for me. The dual crew neck doesn't seem to bother me in the initial home test fit. 

I would like to pick up a nice Merino Wool layer for colder temperatures.


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