# Looking to upgrade Burton Custom to similar



## Krimson (May 19, 2014)

Hey All,

I have been snowboarding (poorly) for many years and just recently moved out to the Rockies for work and have gotten really into it over the past season. I am slowly upgrading my gear since everything I have has either been freebees or cheap deals from friends. Because of that, I didn't get much say in anything, but hey it was better than renting.

Now this year I have progressed a lot, so I think it is time my equipment becomes suited for me. I have already ditched the old boots and got some DC Phase boots which actually fit me properly, size 10.5.

My board is an old 2000 Burton Custom 156 "Shaft" model equipped with some old Ride Preston bindings. I have really gotten used to this board over the season and can really start to manipulate it. I do the best going down blues, but have fun struggling down the blacks since I can quickly turn from one edge to the next to fight my way down the hill. I have no interest in the park, just having fun on the groomed runs or backside.

I started searching for boards, but am overwhelmed by the options and am hoping someone can help point me in the right direction. Should I keep the same size board since that is what I am used to? When I try some steep black diamonds, I would like to be able to quickly turn and stop, (then go, and stop and go...) But when I am on a blue I would like to carve it and feel good.
Should I get a wide board for my shoe size 10.5? How about the flex? I think the current board is 5/10.

I am going to upgrade the bindings for sure, but should I get a new board at the same time, or does it make a difference?

I am also not looking to drop a fortune on the new setup, but something that will be better than what I am currently riding and will make me feel better out there and let me maybe speed up.

Absolutely any suggestions are welcomed, no clue where to begin.


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## Snow Hound (Jul 21, 2012)

To help with sizing it would help to know your weight?

*I started on a Custom & my next board (Never Summer SL) really helped me with my confidence & my riding improved across the board.


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## Krimson (May 19, 2014)

I am 5'11" and weigh 190-200lbs.


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## Simon Birch (Mar 11, 2014)

I know you stated you didn't want to spend a fortune, but do you have a budget dollar wise to offer suggestions? 

Take a look at these sites to get an idea of prices, if you see something you like I wouldn't wait too much longer since a lot of last years stock is selling out since prices are reduced.

Outdoor Gear & Clothing | Run, Camp, Bike & More | Backcountry.com
Snowboard. Skate. Surf. Clothing. Shoes. | Tactics Board Shop
Ski, Snowboard, Wakeboard, Skateboard & the Freshest Clothes | evo

Also look at Craigslist and eBay for some used deals. For your weight and what you want to do your new board length should be longer than 156.


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## Krimson (May 19, 2014)

I would ideally like to spend no more than $500-600 on board and bindings.

Going larger than 156, will I still be able to swing the board around easily when I'm struggling down a black diamond? I literally go down a bit, then kick out the back to stop. Or when I get stuck in moguls (which I tend to come across more than I like) I like the maneuverability to turn quickly to get through them. I also end up in narrow tree paths quite a bit.

I would like to buy new this year since everything I have ever owned has been second or third hand.


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

Hard to say if you'll have troubles to swing a longer board. In general, longer will be harder to turn but this also depends a lot on the model... and most of all on your leg work. Main question is, why do think you need to size up? I ony three reasons to size up: more stability needed when bombing, more edge needed when carving at higher speed, more float needed in pow. If none applies to you, no need to size up. 



Krimson;1715410
I am going to upgrade the bindings for sure said:


> If your bindings are as old as your board, then definitely get new bindings as well now. They have changed a lot since then. Better straps, more comfort, better adjustability, better boot hold.


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## Krimson (May 19, 2014)

The only reason why I was thinking about sizing up is because of some calculator I put my info in online and it recommended 163. I am pretty happy with my 156 though.

Would a longer board make going faster feel smoother? I usually start slowing down when I feel unstable. It could also be that I haven't waxed my board since I got it (>7 years).


Are there specific bindings I should be looking at with specific boards?


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

Krimson said:


> It could also be that I haven't waxed my board since I got it (>7 years).


Aaaaaaaaa! :blink: Make waxing to your habit, else the gods of snowboarding will never be on your side 

Yes, in general, a longer board the same shape/flex will be smoother than a shorter. But it will be more work to turn. It's a trade off. 

Online calculators are fun. Different ones have put me on boards from 145 up to 157 . 
Good starting point would be the weight range of a specific board you're interested in. I'd say, get one you're in the upper part of the range (=smaller) to adjust for your need to have something easy to turn on steeps. I assume, this will put you on something 158ish. 

I've close to zero experience with "nice" all mountain boards. Tried a Rome Agent (camber) and Burton Sherlock which could fit, just to throw in some options. But there are surely many other nice all mountain boards. Others will know more options.


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## Krimson (May 19, 2014)

Awesome, thanks!

Since I like the ability to quickly turn, should I be looking for something more flexy than stiff? I'm considering the NeverSummer SL, it's in the mid-flex zone, 158 size, can fit my boot size, and seems to be a good intermediate board.

Anyone have any other recommendations, or comments about this board?


How about bindings to go along with it? I don't have the first clue how to purchase bindings, I didn't even realize you could get different kinds.


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## Simon Birch (Mar 11, 2014)

I have a 158 NS SL, my weight bounces between 185-187 and I have a 10.5 boot. I have a pair of Rome 390's and Rome 390 Boss bindings I switch off and on with. 

The SL is a great board for what you do. It might take half a day or so to get used to the camber/rocker/camber profile if you never rode a board like that before. This board is sort of like a jack of all trades master of none. I ride mine out in the east coast so I went with a 158, if I was out in CO I would have picked up the 161 for better float and stability. Yeah with a shorter board your going to have more "agility" with it and it will be easier to learn on. 

Now you mentioned issues on higher end runs, are you nervous or scared? Chances are it might just be a confidence issue.


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## Krimson (May 19, 2014)

That sounds perfect to me, I am around the same weight and same boot size. No need for a wide board then?

I am starting to think that's exactly what I am after, the agility.

The issues on higher end runs is a confidence thing, not my board. Before this year I would only stick to the green runs, and when I start getting too much speed I would start slowing down. I am getting over it, and was bombing a few short steep runs last time I was out. But I would like a stable board that I can ride quick but if I get that nerve to stop, I can stop it at any moment.


Is it a better time to pick up a board now while they're on sale for about 30% off, or should I wait until later in the summer hoping for a deeper discount before the new stock arrives? I am moving out of an apartment into a house in a few months so it would be better to wait for the space, but I don't exactly have the extra cash to wait and miss out on a deal.


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## Simon Birch (Mar 11, 2014)

Krimson said:


> That sounds perfect to me, I am around the same weight and same boot size. No need for a wide board then?
> 
> I am starting to think that's exactly what I am after, the agility.
> 
> ...


If you want to get a NS SL at a good price Never Summer SL Snowboard - Snowboard Shop > Snowboards > Men's Snowboards

I would get it sooner than later cause inventory is starting to clear out at the good sites most 158's are gone that are under $400. With a 10.5 boot size we are good enough where we don't need to ride a Legacy (the wide version of the SL) My toe has never snagged the snow on my toe edge when I carve real hard. If I have time later tonight I'll take my SL out of storage and put the bindings on and send you a few pics so you can see for yourself.


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## Krimson (May 19, 2014)

That's the site where I could find it the cheapest as well. I'm really starting to like this board the more I read about it. It seems perfect for what I do with it.

I would really appreciate a few photos if you get the time for it later on.

Thanks!


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## Krimson (May 19, 2014)

How about the SL against the Cobra?


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## Simon Birch (Mar 11, 2014)

The Cobra is a great board but directional, and I love riding switch. Plus me being on the east coast really limits what I can buy and get my moneys worth, that's why I went with the SL. The cobra in CO would be great but right now the only size I've seen at a good deal is a 155 which in all honesty would probably be to small for you. It's doable but after you progress in skill you will wish you bought a larger cobra. There are other sites selling Cobras that would go well with your weight but you might be paying well over $350 for it.

And since you want a more agile board to learn on I would go with the 158 SL.


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## Simon Birch (Mar 11, 2014)

Wait don't get it from tactics (great place I've ordered from them before)

I just looked at the site I bought a Lib Tech Hot Knife from and they're selling a 158 SL for $306. They are based in Chicago and my board no joke got to me in 2 days....not that you need it that fast unless your going to Mt Hood or the southern hemisphere. Then again I don't know if there are any places in CO you can go to right now. When I lived in Denver for a year I remember the snow pretty much melted in the rockies around June.

Never Summer - Mens SL Snowboard 2014, 158 : Windward Boardshop


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

Salomon Assassin 158. 
If you know how to deal with your edges and want a good board that can handle pretty much anything.

You'll need to wax it every once in a while. And you don't need Wide.


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## Simon Birch (Mar 11, 2014)

F1EA said:


> Salomon Assassin 158.
> If you know how to deal with your edges and want a good board that can handle pretty much anything.
> 
> You'll need to wax it every once in a while. And you don't need Wide.


Soloman makes great boards at good prices as well as boots, look around at some other companies as well besides NS. Good thing about NS is their warranty is like 5 years. And yeah in powder wax every 4-5 times you ride, on man made snow like every time or other time you ride. A fellow forum member named Snowdogwax sells some great all temp wax at great prices, I got my order air shipped 2 days after placing it. And you get a lot with your order.


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## Krimson (May 19, 2014)

Simon Birch said:


> Wait don't get it from tactics (great place I've ordered from them before)
> 
> I just looked at the site I bought a Lib Tech Hot Knife from and they're selling a 158 SL for $306. They are based in Chicago and my board no joke got to me in 2 days....not that you need it that fast unless your going to Mt Hood or the southern hemisphere. Then again I don't know if there are any places in CO you can go to right now. When I lived in Denver for a year I remember the snow pretty much melted in the rockies around June.
> 
> Never Summer - Mens SL Snowboard 2014, 158 : Windward Boardshop


Sweet!! Thanks for that, that's a really good price.

I'm actually up in Canada, an hour away from the rockies. Our last resort just shut down today, and I'm already looking forward to next winter (even though I have been dying for summer).

I'm by no means sold on NeverSummer, but from what I have been reading recently, I am really starting to like this board. I'll check out Soloman as well!


I'll probably be buying some wax soon too, thanks for the tip!
Any other tips and hints for a newbie like me would be great


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## Simon Birch (Mar 11, 2014)

Krimson said:


> Sweet!! Thanks for that, that's a really good price.
> 
> I'm actually up in Canada, an hour away from the rockies. Our last resort just shut down today, and I'm already looking forward to next winter (even though I have been dying for summer).
> 
> ...


Get some medium stiff bindings to go with your new board. A few popular suggestions are Flux TT30, Burton Cartel, Union Force, Rome Targas, Rome 390's, and Rome Boss 390's. Soft bindings are mainly for people who ride in the park.


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## Simon Birch (Mar 11, 2014)

Here are a few pics of the toe and heel side with a size 10.5 boot, as you can see you don't really need a wide board (the legacy)


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## Krimson (May 19, 2014)

Thanks for the pictures!! Looks like 10.5 works perfectly. I never realized how high up the boots actually sit, or how noticeable that camber is.

How does riding that chamber compare to the older conventional boards?


For the bindings, so far I've been leaning towards the Union Force. Will those be a good freeride only, no park binding?


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## Simon Birch (Mar 11, 2014)

I'm sure the boots possibly lower a little bit when your feet are in them, no idea since I never looked or had anyone take a picture while wearing them that close and at that angle.

Check out this link for all the pros and cons of different types of boards

http://www.snowboardingforum.com/boards/37496-rocker-camber-everything-between.html

It didn't take me long at all to get used to C/R/C since most of the boards I've ridden all have some form of rocker or camber in them. 

As far as the Union Force bindings go I can't honestly give you an opinion since I never used them. Your best bet is to do a search for them on this forum and see what others who have used them think, or wait and hopefully someone with some experience with them posts on this thread.


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## Krimson (May 19, 2014)

Thanks so much for your help Simon!

I just put the order through for the NS SL 158! I can't wait for it to get here and go boarding next season!!

Being in Canada, a lot of the online stores don't ship up here, so I managed to find one in Canada for $409CAD. A bit more than I would have paid if I lived down there, but that's how it goes up here usually...


Now for the bindings.....
If anyone coming across this who can recommend bindings for this board with DC Phase 10.5 shoes for a 5'11" guy weighing just under 200lbs... I would love to hear options!
What do you think of the Union Force for freeriding?


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

Krimson said:


> How does riding that chamber compare to the older conventional boards?


Did give several CRC boards a try but couldn't warm to the shape, don't like the wiggly gymball between the feet feel of them :dunno: but others love the shape. It's personal preference. They're easier to turn and less catchy but IMO less precise. 
Hope you'll like it. Have fun!


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

neni said:


> Did give several CRC boards a try but couldn't warm to the shape, don't like the wiggly gymball between the feet feel of them :dunno: but others love the shape. It's personal preference. They're easier to turn and less catchy but IMO less precise.
> Hope you'll like it. Have fun!


^ what she said.

For bindings, the Force can pretty much do anything. So you could do Burton Genesis, Ride Capo, Union Force or Atlas, NOW Drive. Or a whole other bunch of bindings... You say you want freeride, but the SL is not exactly a freeride board.

For the SL i'd get Genesis or Union Contact Pro.

For more freeride-oriented freestyle riding, i'd use Now Drive, Union Atlas or Ride Capo on a Cobra (if neversummer). But would rather ride any of those bindings on a Assassin, Mountain Twin or something like that. That's just my opinion though.


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

Uh post got doubled....


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## Krimson (May 19, 2014)

F1EA said:


> ^ what she said.
> 
> For bindings, the Force can pretty much do anything. So you could do Burton Genesis, Ride Capo, Union Force or Atlas, NOW Drive. Or a whole other bunch of bindings... You say you want freeride, but the SL is not exactly a freeride board.
> 
> ...


Sorry, got a bit carried away. I think freeriding is a bad term for what I will be doing with the board.
I will be doing groomed runs about 50% of the time and the rest of the time....not sure what to call it....but runs still in the ski boundaries, but where groomers can't get to. Backsides of the mountains still leading to lifts, peaks, etc.

Is the NS SL a good board for this? I got a little worried that I jumped the gun a bit too early.


Haven't heard of the wiggly-gym ball yet :blink: I hope I will like it too. I just was getting tired of research and wanted to just jump in and do it!


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## Manicmouse (Apr 7, 2014)

If you ignore the park and want a stiffer setup for speed and stability you are probably looking for a freeride board. It's a quite a generic term.


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

Krimson said:


> Sorry, got a bit carried away. I think freeriding is a bad term for what I will be doing with the board.
> I will be doing groomed runs about 50% of the time and the rest of the time....not sure what to call it....but runs still in the ski boundaries, but where groomers can't get to. Backsides of the mountains still leading to lifts, peaks, etc.
> 
> Is the NS SL a good board for this? I got a little worried that I jumped the gun a bit too early.
> ...


Yep SL will be perfect for that.

But that isnt what ppl commonly refer to as freeriding. So like i said: Force, Genesis etc will be perfect. 

If you ask for a freeride binding, people will point you to something else... along with a different board.


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## Krimson (May 19, 2014)

Soooooo.... I just found out the local store I tried visiting over the weekend just opened up their new location and has the Cobra and Pronto for $50 cheaper than I bought the SL for online.

I just did some quick reading and it seems that the Cobra and Pronto people are happy paying more for. Should I cancel my online order (it's a holiday here today, so they wouldn't have received it yet) and head down to the shop and pick up a Cobra or Pronto instead? Save a few bucks and get some extra tech?


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

Can't tell you if you should cancel or not (only done some runs on the SL, not enough to know the board and don't know the Proto/Cobra at all). But I'd always prefer to buy local over online. Many advantages... they'll handle problems with gear (can be PITA with online shops, long waiting time for replacement of malmanufactered stuff), will immediately supply you with replacement parts if e.g. a ratchet is broken, if you're long term customer you may get free stuff every once in a while and it's fun to hang out there in the pre-season and talk about snowboarding and get all stoked for the upcoming season .

As to the gymball effect: A board with rocker between the feet has a convex base between the feet. If you ride flat based with your weight centered, you're balancing right on this convex part and it feels unstable; not the case with camber (=concave) between the feet. That's it. As long as you are on edge, this won't affect you. You're used to camber now, just be aware that you're going to get a different shape and may need to adapt how you distribute your weight a bit if you want to ride flat.

As for the term freeride: actually, you're not wrong to call your aims "freeriding" as you don't aim for park... but the division of a whole world of riding styles and skill levels in three categories (freestyle or freeride or all-mountain for both) is a simplification that can lead to misinterpretations. If you refer to yourself as freerider, ppl usually interpret that you're an advanced rider specialized e.g. on high speed carving and big lines and would point in the direction of stiff n specialized gear, while what you want is all-mountain gear. This brings me back to the local shop... go there and talk to the guy face to face, and profit from their knowledge.


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## ItchEtrigR (Jan 1, 2012)

neni said:


> As to the gymball effect: A board with rocker between the feet has a convex base between the feet. If you ride flat based with your weight centered, you're balancing right on this convex part and it feels unstable; not the case with camber (=concave) between the feet. That's it. As long as you are on edge, this won't affect you. You're used to camber now, just be aware that you're going to get a different shape and may need to adapt how you distribute your weight a bit if you want to ride flat.


Your saying the convex center makes one teeter totter tip to tail when strapped in weight centered?


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

ItchEtrigR said:


> Your saying the convex center makes one teeter totter tip to tail when strapped in weight centered?


Ehm... not exactly teeter totter, that would be exaggerated. But it feels _more_ wiggly flat based + weight centered compared to a camber board. One can adjust to it, and thus for sure its' not an issue for everybody (I don’t like it and just don’t see the point why I should get a board I need to adjust to that when there would be other shapes where I don’t have to. It's just personal preference... I’m pigheaded )


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## Simon Birch (Mar 11, 2014)

Since he is pushing 200lbs on a 158 I don't think he will have those issues. I didn't on my SL 158 weighing 187lbs, well probably almost 195 with gear on. Then again I probably didn't notice it since I'm always trying to dodge skiers slowly zig zagging all over the place


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## ItchEtrigR (Jan 1, 2012)

OK thanks, makes sense, so its not something absolute, more relative to the rider.


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

ItchEtrigR said:


> OK thanks, makes sense, so its not something absolute, more relative to the rider.


It's _all_ relative to the rider


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## Mizu Kuma (Apr 13, 2014)

neni said:


> Ehm... not exactly teeter totter, that would be exaggerated. But it feels _more_ wiggly flat based + weight centered compared to a camber board. One can adjust to it, and thus for sure its' not an issue for everybody (I don’t like it and just don’t see the point why I should get a board I need to adjust to that when there would be other shapes where I don’t have to. It's just personal preference... I’m pigheaded )


You're not the only one that thinks like this!!!!!

I tried to like the C2 on my TRice, but it just wasn't for me!!!!!

Camber or CamRock is the only profile that I feel gives me real control!!!!!

Maybe I'm a Control Freak?????


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## Krimson (May 19, 2014)

I wrote an email to Never Summer, and they said their new board which will be replacing the SL is going to extend the Rocker Camber profile. Looks like that's the direction they're headed in.

I decided to stay with the SL, I am very excited to try out the profile, and really hope I like it. I have the feeling it will take some getting used to, but once I am comfortable with the board, it will outperform my old camber board. Just 6 months to go!


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