# Insulation question - Just how warm is a 60G or 80G?



## say chi sin lo

I'm looking for a new jacket and I really like North Face's Maching Jacket:

*https://www.thenorthface.com/shop/mens-jackets-vests-skiing-snowboarding/mens-maching-jacket-nf0a34na?variationId=UBX*

Love the colorways, design, and everything. The jacket I'm replacing is 10 years old and I didn't pay much attention to insulation rating back then.

*Just how warm is a 60G, 80G jacket?* I will be doing all of my snowboarding in Lake Tahoe, where it's usually in the '30 to '40s.

Sidenote, I recently bought the North Face Alligare Jacket:

*https://www.thenorthface.com/shop/mens-alligare-thermoball-triclimate-jacket-nf0a3322?variationId=A1Z*

Upon delivery, I find it a tad bit loose and bulky and I may return it. I read that is usually the case with a 3-in-1 jacket.

And yes, I would like Gore-Tex. This jacket is going to last me the next 5-10years (I hope!)

Thank you, everyone.


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## PlanB

These are only general guides but they give you a reference/starting point:
*
How to Choose a Ski or Snowboard Jacket
*
*https://www.outdoorgearlab.com/topics/clothing-mens/best-down-jacket/buying-advice*


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## SGboarder

say chi sin lo said:


> I'm looking for a new jacket and I really like North Face's Maching Jacket:
> 
> https://www.thenorthface.com/shop/m.../mens-maching-jacket-nf0a34na?variationId=UBX
> 
> Love the colorways, design and everything. The jacket I'm replacing is 10 years old and I didn't pay much attention to insulation rating back then.
> 
> *Just how warm is a 60G, 80G jacket?* I will be doing all of my snowboarding in Lake Tahoe, where it's usually 30-40's.
> 
> Sidenote, I recently bought the North Face Alligare Jacket:
> 
> https://www.thenorthface.com/shop/m...ll-triclimate-jacket-nf0a3322?variationId=A1Z
> 
> Upon delivery, I find it a tad bit loose and bulky and I may return it. I read that is usually the case with a 3-in-1 jacket?
> 
> And yes, I would like Gore-Tex. This jacket is going to last me the next 5-10years (I hope!)
> 
> Thank you everyone.


It depends on what insulating material is used, weight alone does not tell you much. In the case of the jacket that you're looking, Heatseeker insulation is a TNF version of Primaloft. Primaloft is pretty good stuff for synthetic insulation, reasonably warm and works pretty well even when wet (keep in mind that you're more likely to get wet from inside of the jacket (by sweating) rather than moisture getting in from the outside).
The jacket is not going to be as warm as down or one of the better TNF Thermoballs but should be more than adequate for Tahoe in most conditions (you can always add a light mid-layer).
For spring time riding this might actually be too warm and a bit bulky (weight of 1055g is not bad but almost double of what some shells are).

Also, why do you want Goretex?


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## say chi sin lo

SGboarder said:


> It depends on what insulating material is used, weight alone does not tell you much. In the case of the jacket that you're looking, Heatseeker insulation is a TNF version of Primaloft. Primaloft is pretty good stuff for synthetic insulation, reasonably warm and works pretty well even when wet (keep in mind that you're more likely to get wet from inside of the jacket (by sweating) rather than moisture getting in from the outside).
> The jacket is not going to be as warm as down or one of the better TNF Thermoballs but should be more than adequate for Tahoe in most conditions (you can always add a light mid-layer).
> For spring time riding this might actually be too warm and a bit bulky (weight of 1055g is not bad but almost double of what some shells are).
> 
> Also, why do you want Goretex?


Let me get the Goretex question out of the way:

1) Never owned one, seriously want to see what all the fusses are about.
2) If I can max out on breathability, I will. I either don't sweat or sweat buckets. My old jacket was like an oven and if I sweat, it's good game. I read that nothing quite approaches the waterproofness and breathability of a Goretex. It's probably overkill. I've seen so many jackets rated at 20k/20k with the manufacturer's own proprietary weatherproof technology. But, see the sales link below and I made the plunge. 
3) I read that it's bombproof. I'd like this jacket to last several seasons at the minimum. 
4) Never owned one, seriously want to try one, really. Haha (Flame suit ready, come at me  )

I ended up returning that 3-in-1 Alligare jacket, it had Thermoball and it was heavy and chunky. While I was at the store, I tried on another jacket with the same Heatseeker insulation and really liked the thinness of it. 

I called North Face because I didn't know what "60g/80g" meant. They confirmed that it's 80g body, 60g sleeves. I was doing my own research and the Maching jacket is one of the lighter jacket with similar amount of insulation + Goretex.

And then I randomly stumbled across this, it's the Maching jacket but $100 off. I couldn't pass it up:

https://www.park2peak.com/The-North-Face-Maching-Gore-Tex-Jacket-Men-s-p/northmachingjkt.htm

(And it looks like I purchased the last Small they had, sorry!)


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## bazman

I prefer a shell jacket with no insulation and then can wear whatever layers I want underneath depending on the weather.

I heat up while riding and then cool down when resting so layers gives me the most flexibility.

What temps do you ride in? If you ride in spring then an insulated jacket might be too warm

Am huge fan of goretex for breathability and waterproofness. Expensive but worth it. Not essential if you only ride in dry conditions though


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## say chi sin lo

bazman said:


> I prefer a shell jacket with no insulation and then can wear whatever layers I want underneath depending on the weather.
> 
> I heat up while riding and then cool down when resting so layers gives me the most flexibility.
> 
> *What temps do you ride in? If you ride in spring then an insulated jacket might be too warm*
> 
> Am huge fan of goretex for breathability and waterproofness. Expensive but worth it. Not essential if you only ride in dry conditions though


All of my riding will be in Lake Tahoe, so we're talking about 30-45's. But if it's near 45 degrees, I tend to avoid those days if I can.

The insulation will be handy on those lift rides, and I'll just open up my vents and cool down as I ride down the mountain.


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## SGboarder

say chi sin lo said:


> Let me get the Goretex question out of the way:
> 
> 1) Never owned one, seriously want to see what all the fusses are about.
> *2) If I can max out on breathability, I will. I either don't sweat or sweat buckets. My old jacket was like an oven and if I sweat, it's good game. I read that nothing quite approaches the waterproofness and breathability of a Goretex. It's probably overkill. I've seen so many jackets rated at 20k/20k with the manufacturer's own proprietary weatherproof technology. But, see the sales link below and I made the plunge.
> 3) I read that it's bombproof. I'd like this jacket to last several seasons at the minimum. *
> 4) Never owned one, seriously want to try one, really. Haha (Flame suit ready, come at me  )


2) You're never gonna max out or even have great breathability with an insulated jacket. Plus your jacket only has the regular Goretex, not the more breathable Goretex Pro. Some people will argue that a breathable membrane (Goretex or whatever else) is pointless on an insulated jacket. I think it still works on a lightly insulated piece, but no question breathability is seriously compromised. => Hence, shell!
3) Durability does not come from the Goretex membrane but depends on the face fabric and the workmanship. 78D x70D nylon at 158g/m2 is decent but far from the most durable/bombproof.


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## say chi sin lo

SGboarder said:


> 2) You're never gonna max out or even have great breathability with an insulated jacket. Plus your jacket only has the regular Goretex, not the more breathable Goretex Pro. Some people will argue that a breathable membrane (Goretex or whatever else) is pointless on an insulated jacket. I think it still works on a lightly insulated piece, but no question breathability is seriously compromised. => Hence, shell!
> 3) Durability does not come from the Goretex membrane but depends on the face fabric and the workmanship. 78D x70D nylon at 158g/m2 is decent but far from the most durable/bombproof.


How do you tell if it's regular Goretex vs Goretex Pro?

I swear North Face's specification sheets are either too technical, or they deliberately made them super confusing. 

Also, my body tends to run cold, I hope an insulated jacket will be a good choice.


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## SGboarder

say chi sin lo said:


> How do you tell if it's regular Goretex vs Goretex Pro?


It is stated clearly in the product descriptions, eg this one has the Pro fabric:
https://www.thenorthface.com/shop/mens-summit-l5-gore-tex-pro-jacket-nf0a37pi?variationId=15Q

I swear North Face's specification sheets are either too technical, or they deliberately made them super confusing. 



say chi sin lo said:


> Also, my body tends to run cold, I hope an insulated jacket will be a good choice.


I also run very cold. Still prefer a shell, even if takes to midlayers to stay warm.


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## say chi sin lo

SGboarder said:


> It is stated clearly in the product descriptions, eg this one has the Pro fabric:
> https://www.thenorthface.com/shop/mens-summit-l5-gore-tex-pro-jacket-nf0a37pi?variationId=15Q
> 
> I swear North Face's specification sheets are either too technical, or they deliberately made them super confusing.
> 
> 
> I also run very cold. Still prefer a shell, even if takes to midlayers to stay warm.


The Maching jacket only says... 

Insulated, weatherproof GORE-TEX® 2L jacket


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## bazman

Goretex 2L has a separate loose inner liner needed for the breathability to work. Goretex 3L has all layers sandwiched together and I believe is more hard-wearing but a bit stiffer than 2L

They don't seem to publish the ratings any more, but I've had 2 x goretex 2L jackets and been very happy with breathability and waterproofness


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## say chi sin lo

bazman said:


> Goretex 2L has a separate loose inner liner needed for the breathability to work. Goretex 3L has all layers sandwiched together and I believe is more hard-wearing but a bit stiffer than 2L
> 
> They don't seem to publish the ratings any more, but I've had 2 x goretex 2L jackets and been very happy with breathability and waterproofness


Thanks, glad to hear.

I've got to say, I am having a bit of a buyer's remorse with this insulated jacket.


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## SGboarder

say chi sin lo said:


> The Maching jacket only says...
> 
> Insulated, weatherproof GORE-TEX® 2L jacket


Which means that it is standard Goretex (not Pro).



bazman said:


> Goretex 2L has a separate loose inner liner needed for the breathability to work. Goretex 3L has all layers sandwiched together and I believe is more hard-wearing but a bit stiffer than 2L


The inner loose liner is to protect the Goretex membrane from picking up too much dirt, sweat etc.
Does not matter for an insulated jacket since the insulation covers the membrane/requires an inner liner anyway.



say chi sin lo said:


> I've got to say, I am having a bit of a buyer's remorse with this insulated jacket.


No need, it looks like a perfectly decent resort jacket.


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## tonymontana

I do most of my riding in Lake Tahoe myself and recently tested out a jacket that has 80g insulation in the body and 40g in the sleeves. It was a warm day when I went about 50 degrees at the base. IMO the 80g was a little warm for that temperature. So I will probably be buying something else for spring boarding.

I Like the jacket because I dont need to use a mid layer, especially depending on the weather.
I also think at temperatures of 40 degrees and below the jacket will be fine.

Just make sure to remember, it's colder at the top and on lifts. Also carrying a backpack which adds the ability to remove or add layers really helps.


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## say chi sin lo

bazman said:


> Goretex 2L has a separate loose inner liner needed for the breathability to work. Goretex 3L has all layers sandwiched together and I believe is more hard-wearing but a bit stiffer than 2L
> 
> They don't seem to publish the ratings any more, but I've had 2 x goretex 2L jackets and been very happy with breathability and waterproofness


Thanks appreciate the feedback!


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## say chi sin lo

bazman said:


> Goretex 2L has a separate loose inner liner needed for the breathability to work. Goretex 3L has all layers sandwiched together and I believe is more hard-wearing but a bit stiffer than 2L
> 
> They don't seem to publish the ratings any more, but I've had 2 x goretex 2L jackets and been very happy with breathability and waterproofness





SGboarder said:


> Which means that it is standard Goretex (not Pro)
> 
> The inner loose liner is to protect the Goretex membrane from picking up too much dirt, sweat etc.
> Does not matter for an insulated jacket since the insulation covers the membrane/requires an inner liner anyway.
> 
> No need, it looks like a perfectly decent resort jacket.


Thanks, appreciate the feedback!


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## say chi sin lo

tonymontana said:


> I do most of my riding in Lake Tahoe myself and recently tested out a jacket that has 80g insulation in the body and 40g in the sleeves. It was a warm day when I went about 50 degrees at the base. IMO the 80g was a little warm for that temperature. So I will probably be buying something else for spring boarding.
> 
> I Like the jacket because I dont need to use a mid layer, especially depending on the weather.
> I also think at temperatures of 40 degrees and below the jacket will be fine.
> 
> Just make sure to remember, it's colder at the top and on lifts. Also carrying a backpack which adds the ability to remove or add layers really helps.


Yeah I will have a backpack on me.

Also, if it's 50's, I tend to avoid those days.


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