# Traditional Camber vs Rocker-Camber-Rocker



## Phedder (Sep 13, 2014)

Hey guys, our season here in NZ is pretty much over so I'm going to be on the lookout to snap up some deals. I'm after a board to compliment my Skate Banana which I have an absolute blast on. I intend to use it next season for some high speed carving and moderate kickers (SB just a bit too loose on the landings)

So, how much of a difference in board feel and performance is there really between traditional camber, and a rocker-camber-rocker set up? I'm guessing it depends how far the camber extends, if it's just between the bindings or right under them as well? Obviously traditional camber will be the best for carving, pop and stability, but how much of that would I be losing out on if I got something with a little rocker at the tip and tail to keep it less catchy and little more playful? Any boards you guys have used or would recommend to suit what I'm after?

Cheers! Hope everyone in the Northern Hemisphere is amping up for your season!


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## Mizu Kuma (Apr 13, 2014)

Comin off a Banana, go grab yaself a YES The greats, and enjoy!!!!!


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## NWBoarder (Jan 10, 2010)

Is the SB the first board you've ever ridden? If so, a traditional camber deck is going to feel wildly different to you.


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## Phedder (Sep 13, 2014)

Just checked them out, looks awesome and would definitely fit the bill! Unfortunately I've never even seen a YES board here in New Zealand. I love being at the bottom of the world, but it can suck for options sometimes haha. Brands that are most available would be Burton, Technine, Rossignol, Salomon, Ride, K2, Mervin, Bataleon, and Forum.


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## Phedder (Sep 13, 2014)

NW, No I learned on a flat camber board, bought myself a cheap full rocker board which was a lot of fun but fell to pieces which is why I then got the SB, they let me have it at cost due to the defect in my first rockered board. I could immediately feel the difference the magnetraction made and it was just a tad stiffer as well, so whilst still being a tonne of fun I felt a lot more stable and in control at speed and on hard pack. I've also ridden a friends Technine B-shaw pro which was a full camber but with Jib edges, beveled up. I loved the feel of that, super responsive, a tonne of pop (more than I was expecting on the first kicker I took it over haha) and the beveled edges meant it wasn't catchy either. It was still a little bit too soft for me, but if I ended up with a full camber board bevelling the edges would be a real possibility.


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## poutanen (Dec 22, 2011)

I think everyone needs to own a stiff full camber board for at least one full season.

That said, the best board I've ever been on for carving/edge hold had a lifted tip (early rise from about 6"-8" in front of the front binding).

If were looking for one board to have fun on for a season, I'd be looking hard at the Burton Landlord.


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## SkullAndXbones (Feb 24, 2014)

i ride a Rome Anthem (it's a regular cambered board) and it doesn't catch any edges. it's a very fast board and extremely stable at high speeds. i say go with a regular cambered board. out of the brands you listed, i say go with a Burton Custom X.


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## kosmoz (Dec 27, 2013)

Salomon Assasin, if you find the size for yourself.


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## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

imho...don't bevel the edges of a cambered board...at some point ya want them sharp edges....just learn how to ride with the sharp edges.


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## Phedder (Sep 13, 2014)

I was actually after a second hand Rome Anthem until the guy realised what he had and put the price up $100. I think what I end up with will largely be determined by what deals I can nab. Most likely second hand, as new boards here never really get cheap enough. Though if it's a few more months down the track I probably won't mind dropping a bit more coin if I know it's exactly what I want.

As for bevelling a full camber board, would 2 degrees really make that much of a difference to the grip? Keeping them sharp, they'd still grip really well, just not grab quite as early into a turn, correct?


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## Lamps (Sep 3, 2011)

Burton custom and process are both made in quantity, and come in camber. Should be some in used market.


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## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

Phedder said:


> I was actually after a second hand Rome Anthem until the guy realised what he had and put the price up $100. I think what I end up with will largely be determined by what deals I can nab. Most likely second hand, as new boards here never really get cheap enough. Though if it's a few more months down the track I probably won't mind dropping a bit more coin if I know it's exactly what I want.
> 
> As for bevelling a full camber board, would 2 degrees really make that much of a difference to the grip? Keeping them sharp, they'd still grip really well, just not grab quite as early into a turn, correct?


At some point in your skills development, you are going to want the grip.......do not dimish your board to match your skills....improve your skills to match the board!


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## ItchEtrigR (Jan 1, 2012)

wrathfuldeity said:


> At some point in your skills development, you are going to want the grip.......do not dimish your board to match your skills....improve your skills to match the board!


+1

Like wrath lays it out for you at some point in your riding the catchiness thing will go away and you'll benefit from that edge being sharp. there's a specific reason you wanna bevel it, if you don't know the reason odds are you don't need to....


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## poutanen (Dec 22, 2011)

wrathfuldeity said:


> At some point in your skills development, you are going to want the grip.......do not dimish your board to match your skills....improve your skills to match the board!


+1 billion

I can't stand how much people talk about camber catching edges. Guns don't kill people, people kill people!

I equate it to driving. If you've never driven a manual, you've never REALLY driven. Same with a stiffer cambered board with good sharp edges. A little less forgiving? Yes. More fun when it all works out just right? Sometimes, YES.

In the long run, every persons sweet spot is going to be different from the next. And camber profile alone isn't the only determining factor in how a board behaves.

My zen setup seems to consist of a board with mild camber throughout, early rise tips, and moderate longitudinal stiffness with very high torsional stiffness. The edges and base have "race" tuning, 0.5/2 degree edge and base bevels, and a fine texture/grind. Length for my 180 lb body is anywhere from 160-165 that feels good. This is for a good amount of charging hardpacked groomers, variable terrain, and deep powder.

The next guy might want a full rocker board that's short plus some sort of atypical edge profile, to ride the same terrain I do! 

Now I can't remember where I was going with this post. I remember why I hate working nights...


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## OU812 (Feb 2, 2013)

poutanen said:


> +1 billion
> 
> I can't stand how much people talk about camber catching edges. Guns don't kill people, people kill people!
> 
> ...


Everyone is different, find what works best for you? :moon:

I wanna try a cambered board soon, and feel the difference. Only been on CRC.


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## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

OU812 said:


> Everyone is different, find what works best for you? :moon:
> 
> I wanna try a cambered board soon, and feel the difference. Only been on CRC.


full cam is ALOT of fun...the board is more lively...learn to use it....popping from edge, pulling g's out of the turn, digging trenches on the nose, railing turns, boosting off little things.


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## deagol (Mar 26, 2014)

I have an older Burton T6 camber board that I love for groomers and a Neversumer Raptor that is rocker/camber. As one would expect, there is a little trade-off in edge hold (T6 is a bit better) but the Raptor is a bit better for situations I want a "surfier" board (steeps and bumps and powder). Which is the better board? It depends on conditions. I would also stay away from edge bevel.


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## Brewtown (Feb 16, 2014)

If you go Burton I'd look at the process. Medium soft flex, fairly mild camber, big scooped nose/tail and squeezebox should make it easier to press than most traditional camber boards. 

Otherwise I keep hearing great things about the Assassin and Villain, sounds like Salomon really has their hybrid profile dialed in.


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## kosmoz (Dec 27, 2013)

Brewtown said:


> If you go Burton I'd look at the process. Medium soft flex, fairly mild camber, big scooped nose/tail and squeezebox should make it easier to press than most traditional camber boards.
> 
> Otherwise I keep hearing great things about the Assassin and Villain, sounds like Salomon really has their hybrid profile dialed in.


don't forget about sabotage, it's also an awesome board. Salomon did an excellent job with that flat out camber and sidecut of straight lines


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## Phedder (Sep 13, 2014)

Thanks for the insight guys, plenty to think about. The reason I'd bevel the edges on a full camber board would be to make it more kicker and spin friendly. I'm confident I won't catch an edge riding the mountain, however a big reason for wanting camber is the added pop and stability for bigger kickers. Bevelled edges would give a bit more forgiveness on landings and recovering from spins, and I know if I was skillful enough that shouldn't be necessary, but we're not all pros haha. Ultimate we're out for fun, and I know a small bevel would still give me the stability at speed and carving ability I'm after, whilst making it a little more forgiving for kickers. Of course I'd ride it sharp and unbevelled first to decide if doing so was at all necessary!


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## Alkasquawlik (Jul 13, 2010)

poutanen said:


> I think everyone needs to own a stiff full camber board for at least one full season.


#preach

I still scare myself on my Romain Uninc when I take it out.


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## Manicmouse (Apr 7, 2014)

How does traditional camber compare to C3 BTX? That's got quite aggressive camber compared to your average hybrid rocker.

I'm weighing up getting a cambered board for aggressive charging in hardpack conditions.


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## tonicusa (Feb 27, 2008)

It's the closest thing you will find to a traditional cambered board. I ride primarily cambered boards for everything. Slash ATV my pipe board, Burton Cloudsplitter my powder board, jump line my Signal OG, Burton Custom and Capita NAS for all around, Nitro Team for jibbing. I've been riding cambered boards forever, and I LOVE the C3 on the Lib Darker I picked up last year. It's much closer to traditional camber than anything YES makes (own most of those). The Darker is a really fun all around ripper, it's pretty good in the pipe, destroys the jump line, and is surprisingly fun and easy to ride. It's a touch wider and heavier than some boards but you won't notice it because the board is so nimble and designed well. I recommend C3 above all the Camrock stuff.


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## chomps1211 (Mar 30, 2011)

poutanen said:


> +1 billion
> 
> *I can't stand how much people talk about camber catching edges. Guns don't kill people, people kill people!*
> 
> ...


Agree with Pout, 100% on that!

By far, My two _HARDEST_ slams from caught edges, were in the beginning riding on the _"easy, beginner"_ profiled type boards from the rental dept. (…and I do mean _HARD!!_ They weren't your typical beginner bruised butt falls!) I hit so hard, I caught the attention of the ski patrol! I was so badly bruised, my feet turned purple! I hurt bad for weeks afterward! :signlol:

Obsessive idiot that I am,.. I went right out afterward and bought my first board. A 2010/11 Arbor Roundhouse! This board is a _very_ stiff, full, heavily cambered deck! After those first two times out,.. _This_ is the board I got to continue to learn on! :blink: Lol!

Ironically or not,.. I had plenty of falls learning naturally, BUT,… I really don't recall catching all that many edges, and I _never_ slammed anywhere _near_ as hard riding the Arbor as I did those first two times on those _"Easy"_ boards!!! And I have no doubt it helped me become a better rider, sooner than I would have otherwise!


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## aiidoneus (Apr 7, 2011)

A good rider should be competent on any board and appreciate the right board for the right job. Just like any decent 'driver' knows how to handle a 2wd, awd, 4x4, mechanical throttle, sequential gear box, and host of other driving skills.

It's not about the board but the skills you gain from all different boards.

People shouldn't just try a cambered deck, they should try all sorts of boards. Sure, we all have a few boards we love and have fun on. But when you want to progress, experiment. Learn how to carve hard on a total park noodle, learn how to jib on the stiffest mother you can find. Get out of your comfort zone!


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## Bertieman (Jan 19, 2014)

tonicusa said:


> I've been riding cambered boards forever, and I LOVE the C3 on the Lib Darker I picked up last year. It's much closer to traditional camber than anything YES makes (own most of those). The Darker is a really fun all around ripper, it's pretty good in the pipe, destroys the jump line, and is surprisingly fun and easy to ride. It's a touch wider and heavier than some boards but you won't notice it because the board is so nimble and designed well. I recommend C3 above all the Camrock stuff.


How about a C3 with TNT base? Much of a difference?


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## Manicmouse (Apr 7, 2014)

tonicusa said:


> It's the closest thing you will find to a traditional cambered board. I ride primarily cambered boards for everything. Slash ATV my pipe board, Burton Cloudsplitter my powder board, jump line my Signal OG, Burton Custom and Capita NAS for all around, Nitro Team for jibbing. I've been riding cambered boards forever, and I LOVE the C3 on the Lib Darker I picked up last year. It's much closer to traditional camber than anything YES makes (own most of those). The Darker is a really fun all around ripper, it's pretty good in the pipe, destroys the jump line, and is surprisingly fun and easy to ride. It's a touch wider and heavier than some boards but you won't notice it because the board is so nimble and designed well. I recommend C3 above all the Camrock stuff.


Thanks, good to know. I'm riding a NS Cobra X CRC and want something a lot more stiff and cambered for certain conditions. I've always used wide boards but think I might try something narrower as I fear I've overestimated the effect of my marginal overhang. So a standard Darker might be perfect!


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## Mizu Kuma (Apr 13, 2014)

Phedder said:


> Thanks for the insight guys, plenty to think about. The reason I'd bevel the edges on a full camber board would be to make it more kicker and spin friendly. I'm confident I won't catch an edge riding the mountain, however a big reason for wanting camber is the added pop and stability for bigger kickers. Bevelled edges would give a bit more forgiveness on landings and recovering from spins, and I know if I was skillful enough that shouldn't be necessary, but we're not all pros haha. Ultimate we're out for fun, and I know a small bevel would still give me the stability at speed and carving ability I'm after, whilst making it a little more forgiving for kickers. Of course I'd ride it sharp and unbevelled first to decide if doing so was at all necessary!


Every board comes with a beveled edge straight outta the factory!!!!!

The amount of bevel depends on what type of style the board is made for!!!!!

Catchy edges are mostly due to the Contact Points (Widest points of Nose/Tail) of the edge bein left sharp!!!!! * Pretty much every board comes outta the factory with de-tuned contact points!!!!! (Sharp edges filed down so they are rounded) 

This is also another reason why RCR Profile boards (Like The YES Greats) are so versatile, cause they can carve due to the cambered section, and the lifted nose and tail of the Rocker gets those contact points up outta the way unless you get right up on an edge!!!!! The lift also helps with float in the Pow!!!!!


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## tonicusa (Feb 27, 2008)

Actually not all boards come from the factory with the edges beveled. There are many that come perfect 90/90 with no bevel. All the Burton boards have at least a -1/-1 but there are other brands that don't. My Capita NAS and Signal OG (cambered) come with no bevel 90/90. And very few boards come with their contact points already detuned, it's most common with park specific boards from certain brands.

I do like a -2/-2 park friendly bevel on my jump boards. Rome and a lot of other brands will put a -2/-2 on their park specific boards but you should always know how your board comes. A lot of companies don't readily share this information on their sites anymore, you have to ask.


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## tonicusa (Feb 27, 2008)

Bertieman said:


> How about a C3 with TNT base? Much of a difference?


The TNT base is decent but not as fast as their sintered. Even their sintered base is nothing to write home about, it's not as fast as many of my other sintered sticks. Keep it waxed every few times out and it won't be an issue.


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## Seppuccu (Dec 4, 2012)

tonicusa said:


> All the Burton boards have a -1/-1


Fixed that for ya. 




aiidoneus said:


> A good rider should be competent on any board and appreciate the right board for the right job. Just like any decent 'driver' knows how to handle a 2wd, awd, 4x4, mechanical throttle, sequential gear box, and host of other driving skills.
> 
> It's not about the board but the skills you gain from all different boards.
> 
> People shouldn't just try a cambered deck, they should try all sorts of boards. Sure, we all have a few boards we love and have fun on. But when you want to progress, experiment. Learn how to carve hard on a total park noodle, learn how to jib on the stiffest mother you can find. Get out of your comfort zone!


/thread


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## Phedder (Sep 13, 2014)

I've come across a 2009 Ride Prophet in pretty good nick that I'm very tempted on. Stiff, full camber mountain charger, responsive edge to edge. Sounds like a lot of fun!


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

aiidoneus said:


> A good rider should be competent on any board and appreciate the right board for the right job. Just like any decent 'driver' knows how to handle a 2wd, awd, 4x4, mechanical throttle, sequential gear box, and host of other driving skills.
> 
> It's not about the board but the skills you gain from all different boards.
> 
> People shouldn't just try a cambered deck, they should try all sorts of boards. Sure, we all have a few boards we love and have fun on. But when you want to progress, experiment. Learn how to carve hard on a total park noodle, learn how to jib on the stiffest mother you can find. Get out of your comfort zone!


Good points.
Posts like that make me musing that my riding is very limited/one dimensional. Been actually thinking to get a lesson this season to discover, hiw this jib n butter stuff actually is donw. Well, maybe not on the stiffest mother in the quiver to begin with


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## Mizu Kuma (Apr 13, 2014)

tonicusa said:


> Actually not all boards come from the factory with the edges beveled. There are many that come perfect 90/90 with no bevel. All the Burton boards have at least a -1/-1 but there are other brands that don't. My Capita NAS and Signal OG (cambered) come with no bevel 90/90. And very few boards come with their contact points already detuned, it's most common with park specific boards from certain brands.
> 
> I do like a -2/-2 park friendly bevel on my jump boards. Rome and a lot of other brands will put a -2/-2 on their park specific boards but you should always know how your board comes. A lot of companies don't readily share this information on their sites anymore, you have to ask.


I emailed Signal, and you're right that they come ex factory without bevel!!!!!










But like they state, you should then bevel the edge, and when bought at a good board store they should have that sorted when ya choose a Signal?????

My last two DC's, Lib, and YES have all had contact points de-tuned, but I can't vouch for other brands!!!!! I'd guess Signal wouldn't do it for the same reason they don't put the bevel in????? They're leaving it completely up to the customer!!!!!


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## Alkasquawlik (Jul 13, 2010)

aiidoneus said:


> A good rider should be competent on any board and appreciate the right board for the right job. Just like any decent 'driver' knows how to handle a 2wd, awd, 4x4, mechanical throttle, sequential gear box, and host of other driving skills.
> 
> It's not about the board but the skills you gain from all different boards.
> 
> People shouldn't just try a cambered deck, they should try all sorts of boards. Sure, we all have a few boards we love and have fun on. But when you want to progress, experiment. Learn how to carve hard on a total park noodle, learn how to jib on the stiffest mother you can find. Get out of your comfort zone!


This is one of the best arguments I've seen for why people should give cambered decks a try. Seriously.


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## freshy (Nov 18, 2009)

Manicmouse said:


> How does traditional camber compare to C3 BTX? That's got quite aggressive camber compared to your average hybrid rocker.
> 
> I'm weighing up getting a cambered board for aggressive charging in hardpack conditions.


I've only owned cambered boards till I got my Darker C3 last year. I would say they are very similar. The biggest difference I noticed is the C3 will tear up powder without having to put so much pressure on your back leg like traditional camber. I can sort of feel the pivot point where that little bit of rocker is between my feet. Then on groomers it rides pretty much exactly as my cambered Dark series. I'm a huge fan of the C3 profile and I think it's perfect for my style of riding; hard charging freeriding.


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## tonicusa (Feb 27, 2008)

Mizu Kuma said:


> I emailed Signal, and you're right that they come ex factory without bevel!!!!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yeah, you picked three companies that just happen to detune their boards, Salomon does too. I have a DC Mega, Lib Darker, and YES Big City. They all came detuned. But I often hit them again to get it super rounded, and unless it's a board I ride in the pipe I like to detune a little further down my effective edge.

I always bevel my own boards. And 90/90 or zero bevel is my least favorite. Unless it's on a rockered board like the Lib C3 and YES cam rock, where it's less noticeable. But on a traditional cambered board, Capita NAS, Signal OG 90/90 just doesn't feel smooth. I like -1/-1 on my free ride cambered boards, it rolls into a carve with a little more finesse.

It's a good idea to know how your board's edges come from the factory. Some like the Lib Darker C3 and YES Big City do not have a factory bevel but the contact points are detuned. There is no hard and fast formula from manufacturers. Burton is the most predictable where virtually everything comes with a -1/-1 bevel and contact points that are not detuned. And don't forget that a hybrid cambered board will feel very different with no bevel compared to a traditional cambered board that is 90/90. The hybrid cambered boards don't feel 90/90 even when they are because their profile makes them respond differently in a carve.


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## Manicmouse (Apr 7, 2014)

freshy said:


> I've only owned cambered boards till I got my Darker C3 last year. I would say they are very similar. The biggest difference I noticed is the C3 will tear up powder without having to put so much pressure on your back leg like traditional camber. I can sort of feel the pivot point where that little bit of rocker is between my feet. Then on groomers it rides pretty much exactly as my cambered Dark series. I'm a huge fan of the C3 profile and I think it's perfect for my style of riding; hard charging freeriding.


Think I might have found my next deck then 

Coming through stateside July 2015 so will try to get an end of season board sent to a friend in Boston or find a 2nd hand board on these forums.


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## tonicusa (Feb 27, 2008)

Hit me up in July. I have a 2014 Lib Darker. I will ride it this season and then probably replace it with a new one.

Just a heads up, that while it's a fantastic all around board, it's not great in powder, but if it dumps you should have a powder board anyhow.


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## Manicmouse (Apr 7, 2014)

tonicusa said:


> Hit me up in July. I have a 2014 Lib Darker. I will ride it this season and then probably replace it with a new one.
> 
> Just a heads up, that while it's a fantastic all around board, it's not great in powder, but if it dumps you should have a powder board anyhow.


I'm seeking a hardpack killer, I'm happy with my Cobra in the pow. If I go deep powder I'll find something else!

Sounds great if you're looking to offload at the end of the season, easy to get it to Boston? PM so I don't derail this thread any more and we can talk details


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## Mizu Kuma (Apr 13, 2014)

tonicusa said:


> Yeah, you picked three companies that just happen to detune their boards, Salomon does too. I have a DC Mega, Lib Darker, and YES Big City. They all came detuned. But I often hit them again to get it super rounded, and unless it's a board I ride in the pipe I like to detune a little further down my effective edge.
> 
> I always bevel my own boards. And 90/90 or zero bevel is my least favorite. Unless it's on a rockered board like the Lib C3 and YES cam rock, where it's less noticeable. But on a traditional cambered board, Capita NAS, Signal OG 90/90 just doesn't feel smooth. I like -1/-1 on my free ride cambered boards, it rolls into a carve with a little more finesse.
> 
> It's a good idea to know how your board's edges come from the factory. Some like the Lib Darker C3 and YES Big City do not have a factory bevel but the contact points are detuned. There is no hard and fast formula from manufacturers. Burton is the most predictable where virtually everything comes with a -1/-1 bevel and contact points that are not detuned. And don't forget that a hybrid cambered board will feel very different with no bevel compared to a traditional cambered board that is 90/90. The hybrid cambered boards don't feel 90/90 even when they are because their profile makes them respond differently in a carve.


Yeah, I'm the same!!!!

Always de-tune contact again, and check base/side edge bevels due to the ice we experience down under!!!!!

I'm not a jib monkey, so I like a relatively sharp/acute angle, with a bevel thats flatbase friendly!!!!! (2/88)


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## OU812 (Feb 2, 2013)

Whats the base and side bevel angles from Never Summer? I have a 2013 SL, most likely will get it sharpened before season starts. I'm gonna email NS but hoping someone here might know and get the answer sooner.


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## NWBoarder (Jan 10, 2010)

OU812 said:


> Whats the base and side bevel angles from Never Summer? I have a 2013 SL, most likely will get it sharpened before season starts. I'm gonna email NS but hoping someone here might know and get the answer sooner.


Pretty sure NS uses a 0,0 bevel on the majority of their boards.


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## OU812 (Feb 2, 2013)

NWBoarder said:


> Pretty sure NS uses a 0,0 bevel on the majority of their boards.


This is what I've been reading as well, doing a bit of research today.


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## OU812 (Feb 2, 2013)

Just got a reply from NS, that was quick. Awesome! Here's what they wrote:

"The standard Never Summer tune we suggest is using a flat grind. Some refer to it as a 0, 0 grind or 0, 90 grind. The only time this changes is if your board has a Carbonium top sheet, in which we suggest using a 1 degree side edge and a 1/2 degree base bevel."


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## tonicusa (Feb 27, 2008)

Do they even make a traditional cambered board anymore?


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## poutanen (Dec 22, 2011)

OU812 said:


> The only time this changes is if your board has a Carbonium top sheet


What would the topsheet have to do with anything?!? :shrug:


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## Manicmouse (Apr 7, 2014)

poutanen said:


> What would the topsheet have to do with anything?!? :shrug:


Wondering the same!


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## OU812 (Feb 2, 2013)

Same here, there's gotta be a reason. Maybe better edge hold on their softer boards? Who knows, I'll email back and ask.


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## Mizu Kuma (Apr 13, 2014)

What if they were made from Unobtainium?????


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