# How to make a fast 'swing' turn on steep slope



## bighuyou (Mar 25, 2019)

When I observe some great snowboarders going down the off piste steep slope, I see they handle it really well in two ways:
1. *Nose Roll*: 




I couldn't do this well and any tips for the execution of this fast swing? 
Could it because my weight is not on the front enough? 
2. *Leap turn*: 




One question I had from watching this is that do you experts use more [Flex to release] or [Extend to release] on off piste? Like do you get low to initiate turn or you get up to initiate turn?

But yeah, I don't think I am able to execute fast enough turn on off piste steep slope. However, for the same steepness, my turn on the groomed trail is fast and within well control though. Please help me master this skill. Thank you for reading and answering my questions.


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## Rip154 (Sep 23, 2017)

First one is easy to practice on flats. Just lift your backfoot and twist your body around. Nice for when you are tired or going slow and looking around in chopped up terrain.

The second one you can safely forget about. Sometimes you need to hop around on steep crusty terrain, but you usually ride out on one edge, do a 180 and go to the other side while slowly getting back down.


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## bighuyou (Mar 25, 2019)

Rip154 said:


> First one is easy to practice on flats. Just lift your backfoot and twist your body around. Nice for when you are tired or going slow and looking around in chopped up terrain.
> 
> The second one you can safely forget about. Sometimes you need to hop around on steep crusty terrain, but you usually ride out on one edge, do a 180 and go to the other side while slowly getting back down.


1. I had really hard time lifting back foot even on flats! I don't know if it is related to the fact that I have pretty wide stance?
2. I do see some advanced riders just jump and turn 180 without having to slide down slope much because they barely had board pointing toward down hill. How to do that though
3. How do you actually ride down steep ungroomed area? how to execute faster turn so that everything is more under consistent control instead of sudden stopping on heel edge to regain control? Sounds like you only use both methods I mentioned are just occasionally.


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## Donutz (May 12, 2010)

Huh. I've been doing both of those things without really thinking about it.

OP, on steep/ungroomed, consider tight C turns. Won't work in moguls, obviously, but in normal crud and chunder, it does well enough.


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

Sounds as if you have too much weight on back foot. Back foot needs to be "free" to do such swivels / billy goating in steeps. Get your weight on front foot. Needs some overcoming of mental blockages as it's natural to fear steeps and thus lean backwards... my mantra to overcome that fear habit is to keep the nose in fall line, mentally concentrating to have weight on front foot. With that, the back foot is free to steer n swivel.


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## bighuyou (Mar 25, 2019)

Donutz said:


> Huh. I've been doing both of those things without really thinking about it.
> 
> OP, on steep/ungroomed, consider tight C turns. Won't work in moguls, obviously, but in normal crud and chunder, it does well enough.


I think those best turn I saw was more like = shaped turns


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## Rip154 (Sep 23, 2017)

The important part is being in control and spotting places where you can turn, make small adjustments to direction or stop completely. If you lose control, you might miss your spot and have an accident. Go for easier terrain first, and go slow. Absorb the terrain similar to riding a washboard, but at some point you will be able to do it with each foot, on the toeside and on the heelside and even in turns, and know if the terrain will cause you any problems or if you can safely straightline or make turns.

If your stance is too wide to do something, experiment with it. The C2X is not the best board for learning this, but the day trader might be.


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## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

At home, just use a matt. Get in your natural stance width...hop up (use more of you toes/calves to spring up than crouching and hopping up) and then rotate your hips 180 degrees...both front and backside. Back and forth. Don't twist up or pre-rotate your shoulders...rotate/lead with your hips and then let your shoulder/torso follow around. On the hill, its more about sucking up your knees than squatting the hopping up. This will help you get the feel for doing it on the snow/mountain.


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## poser (Mar 7, 2018)

Spend some time riding bumps and you will be forces to improve this skill.


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## Crusty (Nov 8, 2018)

Donutz said:


> Huh. I've been doing both of those things without really thinking about it.
> 
> OP, on steep/ungroomed, consider tight C turns. Won't work in moguls, obviously, but in normal crud and chunder, it does well enough.


Agree.

OP- Do you have tight C turns down? Basically, find a smooth trail at a pitch you're totally comfortable on. Practice making even, constant radius turns close to 180* (start and finish across the fall line). Work on getting them quicker and shorter but completely smooth and even. Keep your knees bent and posture neutral. Do this until you can link them smooth and tight down a moderately pitched trail.

Now, start applying this to steeper groomed trails. Apply more pressure to your edge as you finish the turn, across the fall line. This is how you'll control your speed. Keep sliding in a constant arc, just apply braking force to keep your speed where you want it (knees are bent, right?) Start linking these. Work on doing them in a constant rhythm. Across the fall line to across the fall line. Toe edge to heel edge to toe edge to heel edge. Get them quick, 1-2 seconds tops.

As you get comfortable linking these on steeper stuff, try this: when you release the braking pressure at the end of the turn, spring with your legs a bit to unweight the board as you initiate the next turn. Pop and turn. As you finish that turn on the opposite edge, you'll have to absorb a bit more momentum as you're now un-unweghting. Use that pressure as your braking force, then release it as you pop into the next turn. Unweighting the board makes it even quicker to turn, weighting the board checks your speed. The quick turns mean your constantly checking your speed, and constantly maintaining your speed like that means you can make adjustments rapidly- every turn- to stay in control even in different snow, bumps, changes in pitch, whatever. 

I call 'em jump turns. I know carving gets all the glory but I love doing these down steep stuff, especially in good snow. It's a great way to stay smooth and aggressive and really charge on steeps.


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## speedjason (May 2, 2013)

Unweight the back leg and do hopped turns using upper-body counter rotation.


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## eelpout (Mar 1, 2009)

Xavier has some things to say about this.


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## snowman55 (Feb 17, 2012)

This video should help you out with using the pivot "wiper" turns on steeps.


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## Jimi7 (Jan 14, 2020)

Xavier's advice is good (of course). I always thought of them as jump turns if that helps. You can try doing them in moguls, just as you clear the top a mogul, the board naturally "unloads" and you should be able to do a quick 180*. You just have to keep working on it and eventually it'll kick in.


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## Donutz (May 12, 2010)

Jump turns and wiper turns are slightly different. I do both on moguls, but in slightly different circumstances. To do jump turns without killing yourself you have to be more centered on the board.

The part about turning on the side of the mogul is a good one. If you suck up the board while going up the side of the mogul, you can very easily swivel the board just at the highest point, then push down on the board to get the edge engaged.


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## WigMar (Mar 17, 2019)

Donutz said:


> The part about turning on the side of the mogul is a good one. If you suck up the board while going up the side of the mogul, you can very easily swivel the board just at the highest point, then push down on the board to get the edge engaged.


My brother taught me a float-turn technique that might be the same as this. You ride up the side of moguls and give yourself a tiny launch off the top. When in the air, you change your edges and come down ready to roll. You ride down that mogul and give yourself another tiny launch at the top of the next one. This way you're changing edges in the air, kind of like a jump turn without really jumping. The mogul does the jump part for you.


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## Donutz (May 12, 2010)

WigMar said:


> My brother taught me a float-turn technique that might be the same as this. You ride up the side of moguls and give yourself a tiny launch off the top. When in the air, you change your edges and come down ready to roll. You ride down that mogul and give yourself another tiny launch at the top of the next one. This way you're changing edges in the air, kind of like a jump turn without really jumping. The mogul does the jump part for you.


Not quite the same technique. Not an invalid technique, but different. I don't go over the top of the mogul and I don't leave the snow. I go up the side of the mogul but just uphill of the peak of the bump. I suck my legs up while doing this so that the board is essentially unweighted as I hit the crest. This allows me to turn the board on a dime, especially since the main contact point is the middle of the board at that point.

Also, taking this path instead of sticking to the trough means there's room to swivel without catching the tail on an uphill bump. If you stick to the trough, you have to work a lot harder to go to your downhill edge in order to avoid catching the tail. Especially on a camber board which has no forgiveness in this area.

I've also done jump-turns, mostly where I don't think I can get away with the above. But they make me more nervous.


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## zc1 (Feb 20, 2017)

Lots of different approaches to moguls.


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## MrDavey2Shoes (Mar 5, 2018)

I honestly didnt know those things had names lol. Just keep riding steep terrain and eventually you'll find yourself naturally doing that stuff as you build confidence. They're moves born from function not form.


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## Jimi7 (Jan 14, 2020)

MrDavey2Shoes said:


> I honestly didnt know those things had names lol. Just keep riding steep terrain and eventually you'll find yourself naturally doing that stuff as you build confidence. They're moves born from function not form.


Tru dat!!!


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## zc1 (Feb 20, 2017)

@bighuyou From the discussion and vids you can see there are a lot of different approaches. Consider a lesson next season. Ask your instructor to take you through some steep terrain and both watch you ride it as well as lead you through it a few different ways so that you can try to copy his/her technique. There's only so much you can get from reading descriptions and watching videos. Following someone else's line and technique often works well.


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## 16gkid (Dec 5, 2012)

I find the best way to ride moguls is to just veer left or right of it ?


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## bighuyou (Mar 25, 2019)

wrathfuldeity said:


> At home, just use a matt. Get in your natural stance width...hop up (use more of you toes/calves to spring up than crouching and hopping up) and then rotate your hips 180 degrees...both front and backside. Back and forth. Don't twist up or pre-rotate your shoulders...rotate/lead with your hips and then let your shoulder/torso follow around. On the hill, its more about sucking up your knees than squatting the hopping up. This will help you get the feel for doing it on the snow/mountain.


Active in forum again since new season started . I tried this at home, and I could only turn 90 degrees instead of 180....need more practice!


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