# Going off jumps?



## Guest (Jan 28, 2008)

When do you ollie off a jump and when do you just go off the jump without olling off of it?


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## Guest (Jan 28, 2008)

from wut i understand, you ollie when you want that extra pop. but until you get the feel for going off the jump, you just ride off of it.


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## PaoloSmythe (Aug 19, 2007)

you always olly

it is 'correct form'

it gives you more jump for each jump

it helps to give a more centered mass and thus stability

it is vital to ensure successful grabs and smooth rotation

(above is IMO)


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## Guest (Jan 28, 2008)

Im going to have to agree with Paolo and say, aye, ollie makes everything look cleaner. If you just ride off the lip it looks like you are launching forward. You want that hangtime effect


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## boarderaholic (Aug 13, 2007)

Depends on the jump. I don't ollie off the ones that I go off of. I find the ollie throw's off my center of balance, but that's just partially because I suck...hah.


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## Guest (Jan 28, 2008)

boarderaholic said:


> Depends on the jump. I don't ollie off the ones that I go off of. I find the ollie throw's off my center of balance, but that's just partially because I suck...hah.


OK boarder has made me change my mind a bit.

It really does depend on the lip. Most resorts build the lip without much curve thus launching you forward (you will need to ollie on these). Some resorts do have a curve on the lip and more vertical which will launch you upwards (no ollie needed)..generally these lips help with back flips.


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## Guest (Jan 28, 2008)

Ok guys. thanks. you helped me out alot. It seem though when ever i try and ollie off a jump i mess it all up and i just dont really get any higher or anything. I can do an ollie great on flat ground but when im on an incline i have trouble. but it sounds like im olling off the wrong jumps that i should just be going straight off of.


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## Guest (Jan 29, 2008)

I also find that if I ollie off the jump it helps with my balance. If I just ride off of it I feel I have no control or say when Im in the air.


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## boarderaholic (Aug 13, 2007)

JiveTalkinRobot said:


> OK boarder has made me change my mind a bit.
> 
> It really does depend on the lip. Most resorts build the lip without much curve thus launching you forward (you will need to ollie on these). Some resorts do have a curve on the lip and more vertical which will launch you upwards (no ollie needed)..generally these lips help with back flips.


Haha. Love ya mang <3. But really, it depends on the jump. Scope it out, watch other riders, then decide if you should ollie off of it or not.


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## PaoloSmythe (Aug 19, 2007)

to me, ollie always.... it is just the amount that varies! 

something with a big kick of a lip (like on a new hip jump) needs less 'ollie power' than your average, well worn wedge of snow


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## PaoloSmythe (Aug 19, 2007)

i disagree, your examiners are morons! :cheeky4:



Snowolf said:


> ....you are in essence pushing against your forward momentum.


surely it is pushing perpendicular to the direction of movement no?

the only way you can push against it, is in a back flip and even then, this opposite motion is only at head height!


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## Guest (Jan 29, 2008)

thanks everyone you helped me out alot with all this info.


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## Guest (Jan 29, 2008)

From what I have seen in the park, an ollie will give you a that sweet effect of accelerating in the air. Like the person clears the lip, and then shoots up all of a sudden and just kind of floats before coming back down.


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## Guest (Jan 29, 2008)

Snowolf said:


> What I and a lot of riders do that you may be calling an ollie, is actually just "popping" off the lip. I do not do an actual ollie because to ollie, you shift your weight foward, then rapidly shift your weight back, flex the rear leg, then extend rapidly as you are throwing your weight toward your tail to "bounce off the tail. This slows your forward momentum, throws your weight back and can send you off the lip out of balance. Inslead what most people do that they are calling an ollie, is a simple case of up unweighting which pops you off the lip with both feet.
> 
> As you approach the jump,you flex to pump more speed into the ramp and as you travel up the ramp, you begin to extend the same way you do in a half pipe as you ride from the flats into the tranny. At this point you can maintain this extension and at takeoff, down unweight the board with a rapid flexion that pulls the board up toward the upper body (raisng the landing gear). Alternately, what a lot of rider who want a little extra pop do is to re flex just before takeoff and then vigorously extend at takeoff to up unweight and gain that pop as they leave the lip. Many people think they are doing an ollie when they do this, but in reality they are just popping off with both feet to gain extra vert. Watch a pro rider go off a larg park jump and you will see they do this, not an actual ollie.


Your right on man. Ive been doing what you said in the first paragraph you typed out. I see now why im loosing soo much speed. and come to think of it in the second paragraph you typed out thats what other riders are doing when they go off the jumps ive seen them do. I always thought they were olling but thwn i think about it they really aren't. 

Your really smart at this stuff.


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## PaoloSmythe (Aug 19, 2007)

Snowolf said:


> What I and a lot of riders do that you may be calling an ollie, is actually just "popping" off the lip.


you sat _tomAto _i say _tomatO _



> Many people think they are doing an ollie when they do this, but in reality they are just popping off with both feet to gain extra vert.


how do you realise pop with both feet? when you say 'with both feet' do you mean both feet unload at the same time? if so, how does this elastically load the longitudinal axis of the board (the origins of the pop's power)?

(unlike when i was suggesting examiners were morons, i am not trolling here. these _losses due to jargon translation_ are a recurrent problem. cheers.)

without wishing to be too pedantic.... your description of an ollie, where by weight is forward biased before then being rearward, with rear leg flexion and extension is the EXACT same thing as what occurs when going up a ramp transition, except the inclination of the 'launch pad' renders the forward leaning aspect of the ollie obsolete, due to your trajectory.

ultimately, the _pop _aka _ollie _is initiated thru the elastic loading of the board and are thus the same thing, are they not?


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## PaoloSmythe (Aug 19, 2007)

*Mr Wolf*.... my love for you as you know is endless. and so there i was about to do that, which i never do: agree to disagree, when i read this:



Snowolf said:


> you NEVER, EVER ollie off the wall of the half pipe as this will push you out away from the wall into the flats, not push you further up the wall.


good god man! that is awful. just awful! have another coffee and reconsider, before some _wannabe shawn white_ hangs up their nose or edge on a pipe re-entry! 

for sure pop will not raise you higher, but it will ensure you clear the lip / coping.

don't take just my word for it (note the words ‘hop’ and ‘jump’ when regarding the point of ‘take off’):

How to Frontside Air on a Snowboard Halfpipe | eHow.com



> Bottom line, if someone wants to do this then fine, there are no rules against this but my point is and has been that when learning the fundamentals of going off man made terrain park features it is much better to have people go off the ramp smoothly without the ollie or the unweighting. At their stage, the ramp provides more than enough air. Teaching them to ollie or unweight when first learning makes it more difficult for them to learn the basics of ATML.


Frankly, whether absolute newbie or not, I wouldn’t consider introducing students to terrain park features, unless they were already happily ollying rollers or off the sides of cat tracks etc….



> the pop I refer to is a simple hop with both feet at the same time


To my understanding (and that is all it is)…. _pop _from a board cannot be achieved by jumping with both feet at the same time; the effect can only be realised thru an ollie type sequence of front and then rear foot unweighting. 

don't take just my word for it:



> How to Ollie on a Snowboard:
> Don't just do what most people think and pull both of your knees up at the same time. That will just lead to less air and an uncomfortable start and landing....
> Right before jumping, bend your knees, "pop" off your back foot, and pull your front foot up hard.


How to Ollie on a Snowboard

the _pop _can allow the entire body to realise a greater amplitude in the jump as a whole, but also, it can help to propel the feet and knees up into the body, to create a more stable centre of mass, to provide smoother and more controlled flight, grabs and spins.

the fear you report of a _pop _causing backwards motion, ending up in the disaster of landing on your back, only occurs if your upper body is leaning back. with ‘weight’ giving pop being effectively waist down, i do not feel that efforts to attempt an ollie for the above mentioned benefits would conspire into a back plant disaster.


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## sedition (Feb 8, 2007)

I think the idea of ollie v. pop is better understood in the context of skateboarding, as the board is *not* actually attached to your feet. Becuase of this, the nuances between the two are more apparent. That said, there *is* a substantive difference between the two. Here is why. 


*I. FLATGROUND*

*(a) Ollie:* 
Everyone has seen a skatebard ollie on flat ground. We all know the mechanics of it. A Snowboard ollie is not that different. No in-depth explination of these is needed (I hope). 

*(b) Pop:*
On a skateboard, there is only *one* way to get "pop" on flat ground; you have to bonk your back wheels off a raised lip/crack in the pavement. You do a little wheelie, your back-wheels hit the crack/lip, you unweight your board, and the back wheels will "pop' (bonk) off the lip, giving you a bit of air-time. There is *no* per se ollie involved here *at all*. The same holds true with snowboarding. You can do a real "ollie" on flatground, or you can bonk/pop over a lip, etc. This example, I think, best illustrates the difference between "pop" and "ollie." They are very, very different from each other. 


*II. TRANSITION*

This is where things get a more muddled. We'll start with a (skateboard) half-pipe. 

*(a) OLLIE/POP ON A VERT HALF-PIPE:*
To get air on a vert half-pipe, you do not "ollie" or "pop" into it. You do a mix of BOTH. You do a slight wheelie to get your front wheels over the lip/coping, then you then unweight, and bonk your back wheels off the coping in order to "pop" your board into the air. At this point you either grab it with your hand, OR, you use the mechanics of a real ollie to control the board in some manner. 

Now, think of a real street/flatground ollie. You slam the tail into the ground. Now watch someone skating vert. *No one* does a *REAL* ollie when they leave the coping on a vert ramp. If you tried to do a real ollie on vert, you would shoot yourself backwards, out toward the flat-bottom of the ramp, and away from the transition. This is bad. 

Back to snowboarding. When you are on a vert half-pipe, the same thing basically applies. There is no real "ollie" and there is no real "pop." What you are doing a hybrid of both. 

*(B) OLLIE/POP ON LESS THAN VERT HALF-PIPE:*
Watch any skater on a mini-ramp that does not go to vert. How do they catch air? With a full on *OLLIE*. The tail of their board hits the transition of the ramp with full force. If you try to "pop" off the coping on a less than vert ramp, it will send you onto the platform, *not* into the air *ABOVE* the transition. Here again, the same is true with snowboarding. If you just "pop" you will go onto the platform. If you ollie, you will be able to do an air and land back in the transition.

*(C) OLLIE/POP OVER A 1/4-PIPE, JUMP, ETC:*
This, is where it all starts to break down, and get really muddled.

The closer it comes to vert, the more you have to "pop" (see 1/2-pipe example above). The closer it comes to a flat ramp with less transition, the more muddled it becomes as to what you actually have to do. You have more options at this point. Think back to the flat-ground ollie v. flat-ground pop example above. You could "pop" (bonk) over that crack in the sidewalk, or you could full-on ollie over that crack in the sidewalk. The choice is yours. However, they are very different tricks and have very different mechanics. The same is true with snowboarding. You have the choice of "poping" off a lip, or doing an ollie *before* the lip. Often the type jump, and what you are trying to do, can lend itself to which you chose (ollie or pop). Again, as seen via the flatground skateboard example, they are two very different tricks.


*III. WORST OF ALL WORLDS: The "Jump-Up"*

The last part of this, is something that can *only* be done on a snowboard, and is impossible on a skateboard. I'll call it a "jump-up" for lack of a better word. This is simply when you just jump straight up in the air. It is not an ollie. It is not pop. Since the board is attached to your feet, it will come with you. If you did this on a skateboard, the board would stay on the ground, and you would be up in the air. Many, many, many people do this and do not pop or ollie, *at all*, when going off ramps, transition, jumps, etc. The "jump-up"t can have the same overall effect of an ollie or a pop (i.e. get you airborne), yet it is actually *neither*. Jump-ups should be avoided. You should either ollie, or pop, when going off a jump, as they give you much more control, and will make for a much smoother take-off and landing.

My 2-cents. 
-sedition


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## PaoloSmythe (Aug 19, 2007)

there is always gonna be a problem when someone mentions _nuances_. 

and so 'pop' is derived from the tail of your board striking against a lump in an other wise smooth ramp transition? ummm nope. 

_a hybrid of both_? what does that even mean? if you unweight the front to cause longitudinal elasticity to cause the tail end to 'pop' then that is an ollie. otherwise and without a lumpy coping for the tail to 'bonk' off of, where does this 'pop' come from?

i am genuinely puzzled as opposed to being a smart arse here.


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## sedition (Feb 8, 2007)

PaoloSmythe said:


> there is always gonna be a problem when someone mentions _nuances_.
> 
> and so 'pop' is derived from the tail of your board striking against a lump in an other wise smooth ramp transition? ummm nope.
> 
> ...


Pop comes from your board bouncing off (and upward) something, combined with the basic upward form of an ollie, but it is not an ollie in the strict sense. It can also be the natural trejectory that an object takes off another object, which can further be manupulated by adding ollie/jump-to it.


Take a skateboard 1/2-pipe with NO coping. You still will not ollie to get airborne, and there is no proper pop/bonk of the wheels to create "pop." However, the upward momentum will still get you in the air. Your leg movements, however, are still the same as if there WAS coping. You do a little wheelie, and unweight, using your legs to guide the board. A hybrid of both means that you use the form of an ollie (for you can ollie standing still) for control, and the lip/momentum of pop to get you in the air (for it is IMPOSSIBLE to have pop while standing still).


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## kri$han (Feb 24, 2007)

I'm confused.

I think I've skateboarded maybe once in my life... (or a few times if you count that really tacky 80's skateboard I had as a kid, with the big plastic brake on it  ).

I might be a "jump-uper"


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## Guest (Jan 31, 2008)

Snowolf said:


> Exactly and this is why in a superpipe, you never, ever want to ollie or even jump or push off the wall. You simply unweight the beaod and lift it off the wall toward your upper body so it clears the wall and is withing easy reach to push it back onto the wall after the spin. I have seen the aftermath of kids who learned to jump/ollie/push off the wall in a mini pipe, after they do this in the super pipe, They freefall 18 feet to the hard, icy bottom and I have seen shin bones poking through snow pants as a result. Please, please, please, everybody DO NOT DO THIS...you will fuck yourself up.


You know Wolf... I am not going to lie... your posts are starting scare the bejuses out of me. I don't want to do any park anymore... I think im just going to cruise around the bunny slope from now on....

P.S. you really do sound like an instructor.. an instructor in any sport always scare the bejuses out of you... "you can die on a mountain bike...ive seen skulls split open"...."if you do not perform a safety stop before head towards the ocean surface...you will explode"

so seeehkarrryy


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## Guest (Jan 31, 2008)

Why do we have to analyse everything it just makes things confusing and complicated. When I'm in the park, or in the pipe I couldn't tell you if or when I ollie/pop/jump/whatever, I just ride and do whatever comes natural to me. If I thought about what I was when I was doing it, it would just screw me up and end in a disaster


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## sedition (Feb 8, 2007)

intake said:


> Why do we have to analyse everything it just makes things confusing and complicated.


For *NO* other reason than we are bored at school/work?


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## Guest (Feb 11, 2008)

*Thanks for the tips*



Snowolf said:


> When going off manmade jumps in the terrain park, it is recomended by AASI to *NOT *ollie. In freestyle certification, instructors are taught to discourage this when teaching students. The ramp is designed to provide more than enough vert and adding in an ollie is an unnecessary complication for a new rider. Later, there will be circumstances where an ollie will be used to increase height off a flat trajectory. Natural features often require an ollie for decent air, but not a feature in a terrain park. When learning to jump, the entire trick is broken down into what we call *ATML *(Approach, Takeoff, Maneuver and Landing)
> 
> This is for doing a straight air; there are some minor approach and takeoff differences for setting up for a spin.
> 
> ...



I hit my first jumps this weekend and it was amazing... I'm addicted.. thanks for the tips...


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## KaOTiKM3 (Feb 13, 2008)

Hey I'm new here, been looking for a good snowboarding forum and this seems like one of the most informative ones. I've been riding for about 1.5 years, and looking to progress beyond normal riding. I have been practicing my flatland tricks but am by no means an expert. I have been looking for an answer to this very question for a while as many sites describe the transition from the lip of the kicker as a "pop". To summarize this, the "pop" is basically just jumping with both legs into a tuck in the air? I have been doing jumps with ollies off the lip but it seems like it would be more difficult to incorpoate full rotations (360s) while doing this as a beginner? It seems to me, doing it with out the ollie will help me concentrate on the actual spin, but won't my weight begin to shift to the front of the board as I come down without the ollie to help "level" me out?


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## Guest (Feb 14, 2008)

It's a ying/yang thing, in going off any trasition there is a fine balance between the force in your legs and the force of gravity & inertia. You never want to overdo it or underdo it, but find the right force in your legs that allows you to take the proper trajectory of the lip. Always suck up your legs. If you have the resources to learn how to pump on a skateboard ramp(halfpipe), just learn how to pump back and forth. If you want to learn how to ollie off a jump, practice on your ollie first, don't just jump, learn how to smap off your tail and level it out, suck it up. Watch skateboarders ollie over things in slow mo. Don't jump off your toes like you normally would. Do it off little bumps and over stumps and such, then take it to the park.


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## chilliwilli (Dec 8, 2008)

Snowolf said:


> When going off manmade jumps in the terrain park, it is recomended by AASI to *NOT *ollie. In freestyle certification, instructors are taught to discourage this when teaching students. The ramp is designed to provide more than enough vert and adding in an ollie is an unnecessary complication for a new rider. Later, there will be circumstances where an ollie will be used to increase height off a flat trajectory. Natural features often require an ollie for decent air, but not a feature in a terrain park. When learning to jump, the entire trick is broken down into what we call *ATML *(Approach, Takeoff, Maneuver and Landing)
> 
> This is for doing a straight air; there are some minor approach and takeoff differences for setting up for a spin.
> 
> ...



I used to skateboard as a teen but was more of an intermediate that hung with pros...just didn't have the time to dedicate to practice. I stopped skating 15 years ago and snowboarding over 10 years ago but never did any park. This is my first season back on the slopes and I started with rollers etc to get a good feel of my weight and balance mid-air. I've been practicing on smaller jumps and have begun getting descent air with just my momentum. I'm now practicing jumps with more speed, getting more air but my landings have been hit or miss. After reading your advise, i've been nailing it more often by staying upright and especially bringing my knees up


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## Guest (Mar 4, 2009)

intake said:


> Why do we have to analyse everything it just makes things confusing and complicated. When I'm in the park, or in the pipe I couldn't tell you if or when I ollie/pop/jump/whatever, I just ride and do whatever comes natural to me. If I thought about what I was when I was doing it, it would just screw me up and end in a disaster


I tried jumps for the first time yesterday and the first few attempts DID end in disaster! That's normal for 1st timers tho right? 

Ok, here's how it went down: The first time I ollied, popped, or whatever and got a decent amount of air. I was even super close to landing it until my butt hit the ground about the same time as my board. I tried not to let that phase me, I was just happy that I got the guts to go for it and didn't maim myself in the process. The second jump was the killer. It was a bigger kicker than the first and I was feeling so good about it, I just went for it and hauled balls to the jump. I came up and did the pop/ollie thingy and it worked, I got kicked WAY up there BUT somehow I managed to land FLAT on my back.  I then did my best to manuver my body outta the way, and proceeded to the fetal position, remaining that way for a good two minutes, until the tingling quit.

I'll admit that crash shook me up a bit, and for the rest of the day I hit the smaller kickers with a little less speed and didn't even try to pop/ollie. I just sorta went over the jumps for the most part, getting about half as much air, but being able to land with ease. 

Is this normal for people just starting out on jumps? Or am I right in assuming I'm doing the popping all wrong, which is what's causing me to crash and burn?


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## Guest (Mar 4, 2009)

Mrs.Queez said:


> I tried jumps for the first time yesterday and the first few attempts DID end in disaster! That's normal for 1st timers tho right?
> 
> Ok, here's how it went down: The first time I ollied, popped, or whatever and got a decent amount of air. I was even super close to landing it until my butt hit the ground about the same time as my board. I tried not to let that phase me, I was just happy that I got the guts to go for it and didn't maim myself in the process. The second jump was the killer. It was a bigger kicker than the first and I was feeling so good about it, I just went for it and hauled balls to the jump. I came up and did the pop/ollie thingy and it worked, I got kicked WAY up there BUT somehow I managed to land FLAT on my back.  I then did my best to manuver my body outta the way, and proceeded to the fetal position, remaining that way for a good two minutes, until the tingling quit.
> 
> ...


Yeah, start out easy and get comfortable in the air just by letting your speed take you into the air and once you get the hang of that, start popping off the lip. Make sure you keep yourself compact in the air and use your legs as shock absorbers. Keep practicing and you'll feel better about going off bigger ones.


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## redlude97 (Jan 9, 2008)

depending on the steepness of the lip of the kicker, ollieing is probably what caused you to land on your back. an ollie requires a shift of your weight to the tail, and many kickers are already designed to shoot you up and actually need you to lean slightly forward to come off centered over your board. Ollieing off that type of kicker essentially caused you to over rotate due to leaning back too much, hence landing on your back.


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## KillerDave (Mar 11, 2013)

*Time to redirect this one...*

Hi guys,

I know this has been asleep for quite some time but it is exactly what I'm working on....

Contrary to comments above, my instructor was putting me through ollies before the jumps with the view to getting more hight....

Now, I must say that my ollies suck.... Big time...

Anyway, as has been said ^^^ I have found that the shape of the ramp makes all the difference...

And I get more air time when I simply "pop"off the lip.

Plus, if the transition has real kick to it, I've found there's not been much need to "pop" or ollie at all... The danger is (that I have found) that you will overshoot the landing point and possibly crash.:dizzy::dizzy::dizzy:


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## Krato (Apr 29, 2013)

KillerDave said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> I know this has been asleep for quite some time but it is exactly what I'm working on....
> 
> ...


ya man don't ollie especially on those steeper trannys. you need to be stable and centered and so long as your speed is right all you need is a nice little pop. those legs should work like a suspension system.


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