# Snowboarding E-Commerce A Little Help



## legallyillegal (Oct 6, 2008)

a) how do they make money
b) how do you make money
c) where is this money coming from


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## MunkySpunk (Jan 7, 2009)

I'm lost. 

Pretend for a minute, I'm searching for goggles. I'm a complete idiot who wants individualized attention. I know there's plenty of resources at my fingertips to do my own research. But I'm a big lazy whiny baby who is a product of rampant American instant gratification consumerism and I've never had to think for myself or even tie my own shoes. I'm a jerkoff that has to start 5 god damn fucking threads asking about goggles and lenses. As sure as the north star points north, I'm a plague on the internet forums. I'm not the type who cares about supporting his local shop, and I've got no idea how local commerce benefits me and my neighborhood because I'm a drooling, semi-retarded dick-for who was dropped on his head repeatedly as a baby. I'm also, as you put it, a troglodyte. What does opensky do for me? Does it connect me with your expertise and I go out and buy the equipment at a local shop? Do I look at their listing of experts, get referred to the expert, come back, and buy from opensky? 

I'm not saying there isn't a purpose or a place for this, I'm just lost as to how I would go about utilizing this place as a resource and then where I would go to get the equipment the experts have helped me to choose.


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## BurtonAvenger (Aug 14, 2007)

That's a mighty big link you got sitting there. No so the basic of it is as one of their "experts" and "shop keepers" I have free reign over what would be sold through the store front that I have set up, they aggregate content from my site to theres, and I'd get 50% off the sale of any product that's in the micro store front.

I'm all for supporting local business and keeping things local but how many shops make it easy for this anymore? I see it day in and day out "I don't have a good local shop", "I only buy online cause the nearest shop is 2 hours away", and things like that. With the hundreds upon thousands of questions I answer and what not it's pretty much after that you're out the door and off buying from some mega warehouse that's getting a profit off my advice vs the chance to support the guy thats done 98% of the work.


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## killclimbz (Aug 10, 2007)

From a micro economic stand point, if you can turn a buck on it, doing what you do, than why not?


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## MunkySpunk (Jan 7, 2009)

So they're hiring you for your expertise to setup and provide advice for a snowboard gear store? Kind of like the guy you wish your store would employ, but instead they employ half-stoned minimum wage Burton whores who think 'Capita' is a brand of power tool maker and 'Never Summer' is a town near Nome, Alaska?


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## BurtonAvenger (Aug 14, 2007)

It's not that I'm actually employed by them I'd only make money if guys like you bought something through the store. But lets look at when you needed advice for your wife and you asked it on here and you said " I hate to say this but I think BA is correct" it's that situation where you're like fuck I had to go to the guy that I disagree with on things because he actually gives the real deal advice. Now lets say I had that pandora R in my store front and you didn't have one you could buy locally but some online site that's 2,300 miles away did. This poses the question of would you buy from them the shop that did nothing for you and didn't answer your question or from me the guy that answered your questions, will continue to answer your questions, and probably cares more that you and your wife are having fun on the slopes?

Their theory is the main street shopping district has changed (no shit right) and that in the age of online dominance with the Amazons, mega warehouse stores, and shit this would make it more personalized. 1 you'd have a person you trust and believe in what they're saying (not saying you trust me or believe what I'm saying) 2 it's more one on one 3. buying from me supports me to keep on writing and doing what I'm doing and allows you to keep on reading and enjoying what I'm doing.

Is it a great system, they make it sound this way but that's why I'm asking you guys cause I want to see if it'd effect your perception of me and if you'd actually buy through a shop I had control over vs. just taking my advice and reviews and going somewhere else like you've been doing.


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## snowvols (Apr 16, 2008)

It would be awesome to be able to support you since I know you have personally helped me out. Have you thought about doing a poll or something on how many readers would continue reading and buying compared to how many would quit browsing your site?


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## BurtonAvenger (Aug 14, 2007)

No I haven't but it's probably coming to that.


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## CaptT (Sep 23, 2009)

At some point you have to realize....getting paid to do what you like, isn't selling out.......

Now, conforming to some kind of persona they think you should be...would be...

You have a skill but, I think you should get paid if they visit your site because of you...even if they don't buy... 

You will prob have a couple "core" cats that protest, but really....what is so "core" about passing up the chance to do what you love and make some duckets in the process.....

In other words....DO IT....who knows...even if it doesn't work out, it may get you more exposure for future opportunities.....

I wanna kick you in the balls some times but, you are also the first person I would ask when it comes to gear. Snowboarding to me, isn't just some hobby I do when ever I can......I eat, sleep and breathe it....My gear choices coincide with that......if you vouched for a condom shaped one-piece I would probably be riding around looking like a giant dildo......(don't fucking do it...I am on to your thought process)


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## bobepfd (Oct 28, 2007)

I'm a huge advocate of supporting your local shop. But at the same time I know what I can and cannot get out of my local shop. For that I would much rather buy from a site online that is backed or run by someone who is a real person and gives me real, tested, and researched advice on products not some company jargon or from the salesperson that tries to push a product on me that they say is comparable and they just so happen to carry.


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## BurtonAvenger (Aug 14, 2007)

It's cool seeing all the responses I'm getting from people, these aren't the typical "you're awesome you should do it blah blah blah one liners", but thought out answers that show how much you value what I'm doing.

Tenielle have you given your husband that Lordly Anal?

Bob and Vols I'm glad you can see that this opportunity would benefit both you as a shopper and me as a blogger by putting products you want in your hands through someone that would only be selling what they recommend.


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## arsenic0 (Nov 11, 2008)

Go for it dude, there's no shame in making a buck.


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## killclimbz (Aug 10, 2007)

CaptTenielle said:


> I wanna kick you in the balls some times but, you are also the first person I would ask when it comes to gear. Snowboarding to me, isn't just some hobby I do when ever I can......I eat, sleep and breathe it....My gear choices coincide with that......if you vouched for a condom shaped on-piece I would probably be riding around looking like a giant dildo......(don't fucking do it...I am on to your thought process)


CT, this is why you have become one of my favorites on the site. Absolute comedy.


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## hanzosteel (Oct 7, 2009)

what about pricing in your "store"? most people are shopping online because it's damn cheaper. currently, poeple get your advice and go search for prices online for the best price and it would be hard to beat backcountry, sierra, etc. for prices. what about returns? - one of the advantages to having a good local shop is that you can try the stuff on before you buy - of course, this wouldn't apply if your "store" only sold boards. what i'm saying if the prices and return policies are comparable to the other online stores that everyone is currently supporting, then i think most respectful riders will support someone like you in a setting like opensky but right now backcountry and sierra are killing it just on prices.


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## BurtonAvenger (Aug 14, 2007)

I'd control the pricing. I get a print out of what they paid and what the msrp is and I go from that. Prices might not get as low as stuff like Backcountry cause their buying tier is in the 10's of millions, but I could probably give it a fair run to smaller sites that people shop from like Porters or Evo.

But what they're trying to offer is a more personalized shopping experience and any of you that know me and how I do things I'll answer as many questions as I can till you're satisfied which is better than a wham bam online shopping warehouse.


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## baldylox (Dec 27, 2007)

I prefer to support a positive influence on the sport. I just bought a package as a gift from wiredsport being that he is a member that I could go to if I were dissatisfied and (BIG AND) the price was VERY CHEAP. In many cases I would pay a little more for good service / return policy. I can't say I've encountered a really knowledgeable salesmen on DogFunk / Sierra or in my LBS. Usually if I walk in the LBS, they automatically tell me "This board is sick in the park, yo!" even if I am looking for/at a super stiff 167 wide. While I am by no means a "snowboard techie", after riding for 13 or 14 years I've learned a few things about what board characteristics / materials correspond to board performance. If I could talk to someone in real terms without having to scour the market for what I think I'm looking for, than that has some value. Unfortunately, any previous attempt at such an exchange of knowledge has been futile when confronted with a yellow beanie wearing park rat trying sell me the second most expensive board in the shop cause it has "steez".

Anyway, my point is that it sounds like a good idea. No I would not look at you as a typical merchant though perhaps new members might. Just don't quit your day job just yet.


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## MunkySpunk (Jan 7, 2009)

BurtonAvenger said:


> But lets look at when you needed advice for your wife and you asked it on here and you said " I hate to say this but I think BA is correct" it's that situation where you're like fuck I had to go to the guy that I disagree with on things because he actually gives the real deal advice.


Tongue in cheek, you're on that page too. :cheeky4: I respect the knowledge, and I'm not too proud to say "I don't know." - that's what questions and experts are for. It hurts a bit more to say "I was wrong." But I do it when I'm backed into a corner. :laugh:


> Is it a great system, they make it sound this way but that's why I'm asking you guys cause I want to see if it'd effect your perception of me


Wait... what? You care what we think? Who are you? How did you get BA's password?


> and if you'd actually buy through a shop I had control over vs. just taking my advice and reviews and going somewhere else like you've been doing.


I've got my local shop which a friend just started this year. Barring that, I'd prefer giving you my biz. God knows you've earned it.


CaptTenielle said:


> You have a skill but, I think you should get paid if they visit your site because of you...even if they don't buy...


THAT would cost him business. Folks wouldn't go to the Sexually Frustrated Snowboarder if they had to pay a subscription.. no site hits, no shopping.


> what is so "core" about passing up the chance to do what you love and make some duckets in the process.....


Nothing.


> I wanna kick you in the balls some times but,


What's your Paypal address? I'll shoot you some cash to do it. Extra if you do it with steel tipped boots, plus a bonus if you Lance Armstrong his sack. The Monotesticular Snowboarder - because someone has to fondle it like it is. :laugh:


> you are also the first person I would ask when it comes to gear.


I ask the search engine here first out of general courtesy, but BA's a close second. But his advice > search.


BurtonAvenger said:


> It's cool seeing all the responses I'm getting from people, these aren't the typical "you're awesome you should do it blah blah blah one liners"












> Bob and Vols I'm glad you can see that this opportunity would benefit both you as a shopper and me as a blogger by putting products you want in your hands through someone that would only be selling what they recommend.


All anyone can ask a business owner is that he puts his money where his mouth is. Unless you own a brothel. Then you put other stuff where your mouth is. :cheeky4:

At any rate, I'd put you down as option #2 after my own buddy's board shop any day.


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## MunkySpunk (Jan 7, 2009)

One last thing, if you're worried about blog visitors thinking you're just schilling for your own putative shop, you need to make the distinction: You're not recommending what you're selling, you're selling what you recommend. You need to couch it in those terms.


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## CaptT (Sep 23, 2009)

Spunk....your on a roll today....don't slow down....:thumbsup::thumbsup:

I actually have an after thought..........BA, have you thought of doing some kind of price break for resort employee's.......not shop employee's but just resort employee's.....it would be pretty kick ass for the guys out there working for nothing living the dream......they always shred their shit and THAT would be a MAJOR drawing point...... +1 for the local scum bags......


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## snowvols (Apr 16, 2008)

One other thing since I know you think it is a terrible idea for boota to be bought online since you can not try them out. Would you sell them?


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## tomtom88 (Nov 13, 2008)

Alright, after reading this whole thread and the blog, I'm still having a difficult time grasping this. So this is an online boardshop, with the benefits of a small local shop and knowledgable staff, yet it also has the benefits of an online shop with low prices and tech support chat?


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## BurtonAvenger (Aug 14, 2007)

MunkySpunk said:


> One last thing, if you're worried about blog visitors thinking you're just schilling for your own putative shop, you need to make the distinction: You're not recommending what you're selling, you're selling what you recommend. You need to couch it in those terms.


 Yeah that thought has crossed my mind that I'd be selling what I recommend instead of recommending what I sell which is what I had to do last year at my real job. I'm definitely going to be stressing that point big time.



CaptTenielle said:


> Spunk....your on a roll today....don't slow down....:thumbsup::thumbsup:
> 
> I actually have an after thought..........BA, have you thought of doing some kind of price break for resort employee's.......not shop employee's but just resort employee's.....it would be pretty kick ass for the guys out there working for nothing living the dream......they always shred their shit and THAT would be a MAJOR drawing point...... +1 for the local scum bags......


What support the minimum wage snow carnies? Bah someone needs to keep them eating ramen and drinking cheap whiskey.



snowvols said:


> One other thing since I know you think it is a terrible idea for boota to be bought online since you can not try them out. Would you sell them?


 Fuck no, there would never ever EVER be a boot sale EVER by me, maybe boot related products like socks and footbeds but boots as a whole I will never ever sell.



tomtom88 said:


> Alright, after reading this whole thread and the blog, I'm still having a difficult time grasping this. So this is an online boardshop, with the benefits of a small local shop and knowledgable staff, yet it also has the benefits of an online shop with low prices and tech support chat?


It's not necessarily a board shop in the sense that you think it is. It's more a link to a small store front with about 7 to 10 products that are things that I use and recommend often so it could be Oakley Crowbars, Smartwool socks, super feet insoles, maybe a k2 jibpan or bindings. But the basics of it are this basically they take my content that would be beneficial to someones purchase I.e. the camber theory posts I have and maybe some reviews. The products being sold are solely the stuff that I use and recommend not stuff I'm selling that I have to recommend. But what it does in a land of box stores and shop reviews is it gives you a direct line to what I've been doing for the oh god almost last 7 years and instead of taking my advice and going to say sierrasnowboards or backcountry or mooseknucklebumfuck.com you'd be buying from a store front that I'd be seeing 50% of the profits. 

The whole point of the open sky project is to put you as a shopper in touch with me as a blogger and hey if you read what I'm writing the review doesn't fit your needs or the tech talk isn't what you think it is and you go and buy from someone else cool, if you buy from me even better. But the whole point of it is to bring people back to people instead of being shopper 283848438 placing order number xj28447tc4848-bukake it's just a more personal way to shop.


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## tomtom88 (Nov 13, 2008)

I guess what I'm having a hard time understanding is, is this going to be an actual brick and mortar business, or is it solely online?


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## BurtonAvenger (Aug 14, 2007)

solely online


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## hanzosteel (Oct 7, 2009)

i don't see the downside to doing this. you get control of your content, you can still run your angry website, it doesn't cost you any capital or financial risk, you don't even have to set it up yourself. but you gain exposure, bigger audience, you can still rant here and on angry and you pocket whatever coin for whatever you sell and i'm sure there are many who will buy from you if the prices are competitive with other online stores. so, is there a catch?


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## Thadwood (Dec 13, 2008)

BA, I know that if an opportunity like this was presented to me, I'd kick myself if I didn't accept it. From reading the blog entry, this sounds like a rare chance to make a positive change to the industrial side of snowboarding. Obviously I can't speak for everyone, but no person who frequents your site or this forum can argue with the fact that you commit yourself to, and concern yourself with helping people to make choices they won't regret. The fact that you've been doing this out of your own time for so long is proof that you're in no way "in it for the money". 

I realize I don't know you very well, and as such my opinion doesn't count for much, but I do believe that people will support you if you choose to turn a profit doing what you love, provided you continue to be a positive influence on the sport (as I'm sure you will.) 

I know this isn't really criticism, but honestly there isn't much I can criticize you on. Just my 2 cents, I'd say absolutely go for it.


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## Random Hero (Sep 30, 2008)

Well if I can get a Jibpan off of you for a decent price I'll definately do it that way considering you're the reason why I want that board so bad.


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## BigC_ 13 (Dec 28, 2008)

As long as you stand by your morals and don't start saying "buy this it's awesome" for every product out there just to make a buck I say go for it. Although I don't always agree with your views on things I know your advice is always solid and trustworthy.

Go for it, this good be an awesome opportunity for a future career if this blows up.


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## hanzosteel (Oct 7, 2009)

yo, BA - just curious, if you were open for business today, what boards, bindings, etc. would you be putting up in your storefront for sale? i just want to get an idea of what to expect.


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## Sam I Am (Sep 9, 2009)

I support the idea that you could make a buck without changing a damn thing. That I'll high five. 

BUT. Isn't it the local shops that sponsor events on the mountains. Get kids started out in the professional career of snowboarding by giving them a hand and sponsoring them also. This online site is good for genuine advice from a legitimately knowledgeable person, but what would they do to keep my mountain running. Especially in this economic crisis. 

If you doing this online thing takes away revenue from local shops that help keep the ski resorts running than I can't support you in that. I need the mountain open to live my life and I don't understand how Open Sky will support the resorts.

Just my 2 cents.


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## m_jel (Apr 21, 2009)

he's saying its more to bring a shop-experience to you online. Unless you have an insane local shop, they don't sell absolutely everything you want to buy, and instead of going to whatever website you usually go to, you use his advice, reviews etc. and get it from his storefront. Not so much to replace local shops (unless they just push whatever they carry onto you) as it is to supplement them in my view. Sounds like a good opportunity, and it could even give people a chance to get that hard-to-find gear


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## BurtonAvenger (Aug 14, 2007)

hanzosteel said:


> yo, BA - just curious, if you were open for business today, what boards, bindings, etc. would you be putting up in your storefront for sale? i just want to get an idea of what to expect.


 I don't even know if I'd carry hard goods the more I think about it. The options are endless though.



Sam I Am said:


> I support the idea that you could make a buck without changing a damn thing. That I'll high five.
> 
> BUT. Isn't it the local shops that sponsor events on the mountains. Get kids started out in the professional career of snowboarding by giving them a hand and sponsoring them also. This online site is good for genuine advice from a legitimately knowledgeable person, but what would they do to keep my mountain running. Especially in this economic crisis.
> 
> ...


 Is there a coherent thought in there at all or are you in a turkey induced rambling? FYI shops don't keep resorts open it's actually the tourists that pay by the day for their tickets (not pass holders), eat at the resort cafeterias/restaurants, and shop in the resort owned stores.

Have you not seen the over saturation of "sponsored" kids out there I don't think what I'm doing would be hurting that in any way especially with how retarded the industry has gotten with giving out "sponsorships". You must be a kid if you're concerned about sponsorship cause no adult would give a fuck about that shit. Let me tell you sponsorship isn't all it's cracked up to be.



m_jel said:


> he's saying its more to bring a shop-experience to you online. Unless you have an insane local shop, they don't sell absolutely everything you want to buy, and instead of going to whatever website you usually go to, you use his advice, reviews etc. and get it from his storefront. Not so much to replace local shops (unless they just push whatever they carry onto you) as it is to supplement them in my view. Sounds like a good opportunity, and it could even give people a chance to get that hard-to-find gear


Nailed it!


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## CaptT (Sep 23, 2009)

So what's the verdict BA????


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## MunkySpunk (Jan 7, 2009)

BA, I don't know you from Adam. I could only pick you out of a lineup by your goggle tan, so this post may be WAAAAY off.

I'm guessing you don't have a 401(k) or other sort of IRA. Correct me if I'm wrong and stop reading now.

I'd love to live the Ramen noodle life for what you do.... for a time. But the Ramen noodle life doesn't invest in your future. What I'm trying to say is if you want to keep hitting the hills for a living, you've got to make a living off of it sooner or later, or you're not going to be doing it for long.

I'm blessed to have a job I like. That doesn't mean it isn't stressful and I don't have my bad days. Hell, it isn't even the first job I'd pick if given my choice of ANY job in the world. Professional hot tub tester, brothel review blogger, or your job are at the top of my list. But for practical jobs that I can do, I'm where I want to be.

Social Security isn't going to exist when you or I retire, and what happens if you get into a serious career-ending accident, or break a femur and can't do your equipment reviews for an entire season? Grab the love of your life by the balls and squeeze every last cent out of it that you can while you can. Harsh reality is always lurking around the corner, and I'd wager you want to be writing a 'Grays on trays' blog at 55 instead of jockeying a 7-11 cash register and talking like Uncle Rico about the good old days and the way it could have been.

The moral of the story: You should open this shop, maybe even spin it into a highly regarded local shop on the ground one day. This is a good low-risk opportunity to start it all. Don't blink twice, or even once, at people telling you that you're 'selling out' or 'jeopardizing other local shops'. You can't stop the future - it's coming. So worry about yourself and your future.


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## Sam I Am (Sep 9, 2009)

BurtonAvenger said:


> I don't even know if I'd carry hard goods the more I think about it. The options are endless though.
> 
> Is there a coherent thought in there at all or are you in a turkey induced rambling? FYI shops don't keep resorts open it's actually the tourists that pay by the day for their tickets (not pass holders), eat at the resort cafeterias/restaurants, and shop in the resort owned stores.
> 
> Have you not seen the over saturation of "sponsored" kids out there I don't think what I'm doing would be hurting that in any way especially with how retarded the industry has gotten with giving out "sponsorships". You must be a kid if you're concerned about sponsorship cause no adult would give a fuck about that shit. Let me tell you sponsorship isn't all it's cracked up to be.


It seems the sincere OP has brought back has inner prick.

From the Angrey Snowoarder himself:

I’ve written quite a bit how online stores are great and how efficient they can be which is great for the consumer. However, now I’m more concerned about the backlash effect. When you go and purchase online it takes money out of the pocket of your local shop. In some areas shop owners aren’t all that keen to building the scene and for them it’s business. The other side of the same coin is the shop owner who tries to grow skateboarding or snowboarding by putting on events, movie premiers and contests. Sure it’s an extension of marketing their business but without growing the audience they won’t stay in that business. without the shop the scene loses a vital local touchpoint to sustaining itself.

......

I’m not telling you to not shop online. If you have need and budget do what you need to do but think about this: who is going to host a rail jam at your mountain or best a trick contest at a local ledge. Think about who is part of your community and who is taking your money.

...............

Why should you support your local shop you ask? I’ll tell you why, unlike a online shop the money you spend with these guys goes back to your local economy. These are the guys that sponsor local events and riders. Lets say its Friday afternoon and you’re going riding but you broke some random part on your gripper grips, do you think you’ll get a replacement part from the online store in time to avoid the crisis of not having your gear for the weekend? I highly doubt that and I bet your local shop can accomodate you.



So exactly why support your local shop?


I'm SO SORRY that I'm worried about sponsorship. Yeah, I'd like to see my buddy actually make a life of it, cuz he wants it, than work a 9 to 5 job (not that there's anything wrong with that) at Walmart of McDonald. So I do care. Maybe it's not what it's cut out to be, but hell I'm still going to support him if he does get sponsored. You don't like sponsorship. That's great. But other kids do and you can't say shit to sway their minds. Get over it.


Like I said earlier, it would be great that you make an extra buck. I've got nothing against it. But how much will this online buying affect my local economy. At least when I buy at the shop (bad shop or good shop) some of that money goes back into the economy.

Don't ask for our thoughts on things if you don't want to here it. If I got something wrong, then my god, please help me understand it.


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## Sam I Am (Sep 9, 2009)

m_jel said:


> he's saying its more to bring a shop-experience to you online. Unless you have an insane local shop, they don't sell absolutely everything you want to buy, and instead of going to whatever website you usually go to, you use his advice, reviews etc. and get it from his storefront. Not so much to replace local shops (unless they just push whatever they carry onto you) as it is to supplement them in my view. Sounds like a good opportunity, and it could even give people a chance to get that hard-to-find gear


Sounds good. If that's what it is then go for it. No one is stopping you.


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## legallyillegal (Oct 6, 2008)

Sam I Am said:


> It seems the sincere OP has brought back has inner prick.
> 
> From the Angrey Snowoarder himself:
> 
> ...


hah i was waiting for this inconvenient truth to pop up

i was going to post it myself, but i don't really give a shit.


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## BurtonAvenger (Aug 14, 2007)

Sam I Am said:


> It seems the sincere OP has brought back has inner prick.
> 
> From the Angrey Snowoarder himself:
> 
> ...


Oh no I offended you for calling out the fact you care about sponsorship heaven forbid that you have a friend that's the next fucking Jed Anderson or Shaun White or whatever kid is the flavor of the season for the next year. Yes all hail the sponsorship for someone thats probably a mediocre rider at best and will fade away into nothingness only to end up like Jimmy Halopoff (sp) being a tile finisher or cabinet master or whatever the fuck he's doing now. Yes get all butt hurt that I'm calling bull shit on sponsorships especially shop sponsorships. Woo this kid showed up to work for us for free lets sponsor him then he went to a demo and turned screws and lets give him a head to toe kit. Face the fucking facts you retard true make a living at it sponsorships as we know it are few and far between most people have real jobs hell Dan Brisse paints fucking billboards on highways in the off season so he can shred and that dude kills it. Chad Otterstrom yes the Otterpop is a bar tender at Whales Tail in Breck and works at Woodward and that guy has been killing it since you were just a drip of semen down your mothers thigh. Don't think I wasn't once that kid with dreams of sponsorship in my eyes but I learned early on what it took and knew I didn't have it, most kids are too stupid for that and end up burnt out has been never was's that piss and moan. Sorry I didn't sugar coat it for you junior that's not my style. I think there's plenty of sites that are like that go check out transworld or snowboarder mag. They'll continue to tell you that you're the best and you'll be pro as long as you buy into whatever flavor of kool aid they offer this month.

Where am I saying don't buy locally? Am I saying buy from me and fuck your local shop, no I'm not saying that hell I'd hope people are buying locally. But how many of you come to me for advice then go and buy from the sierra snowboards, backcountry's, some douche bag local shop you don't like? Yeah that's great that I've done their job for them so they can turn a profit, here's a chance for me to turn it. Have I listed what I'm going to carry? No, have I even said I'm doing it? No! Have I even once said fuck your local shop? Fuck No! So try to twist what I've been saying for your stupid retort like you think you can best me at a battle of wits. Truth is I've probably done more for snowboarding than your local shop and helped hundreds more people than them. I don't see anyone else that's dedicated as much time as I have for the last almost 7 years in providing reviews, advice, tech break downs, and all that shit. But hey you're a fucking kid that knows everything aren't you? 

We as snowboarders have to face the fact that online retail is killing off our local shops. Want to argue that one go into your local shop and just see the listed prices of all the current in-line gear, then go to any of the big 5 online stores and see who has the better prices. 9 out of 10 times it's online. Look at the stranglehold Burton put on their dealers only to say fuck it we'll sell direct since it's another medium we can control. But oh wait you in your infinite wisdom have spent countless hours talking with manufacturers large and small about distribution models and the impact of the online market haven't you? Fuck no you haven't so sit down and shut the fuck up you whiney little twat. This opportunity is a chance to take away the customer 29384848 order number 384848 society that's taken over and bring it back to a more one on one experience. Oh but wait you probably will argue that you know so much about customer service and how you have worked more than half your life in it haven't you? Then you'll argue that you in fact have spent half your life working in the "local" shop. News flash outside of resort areas local shops are dying the only ones that are surviving know how to market themselves online as well as locally. So does your local shop have a website oh shit are they taking business from people that live away from your local area where they might have a local shop? Hmm seems a bit flawed there if that's the case.

Also I asked advice from everyone to take in all sides of things. As many have mentioned the only ones that are there to say don't do it are the jealous no talent ass clowns that don't know how to make their voice heard. You're like mole man from the Simpsons the one person that always votes no in the public polls with Mayor Quimby. Yeah you want to push my buttons go for it but I'll say this I'm out there with a voice that's heard, heard enough so some guys with a shit ton of money are willing to invite me to their idea that is something that could potentially reinvent the online retail market which has been flawed since the 90's. So like many have said what's the risk to me? What one kid who has no concept of the true realities of life says I'm a sell out, but the many that understand the work I put into what I do could potentially throw some business my way if they can't find things locally? Yeah that's a risk I'm willing to take.

So if that makes me a sell out in your eyes so be it. I'll never make everyone happy and I came to terms with that a while ago. But if there's a chance for me to keep on doing what I've been doing for almost 7 years and turn a profit and I don't have to change my formula of how it's done then I'm going to do it. Because ultimately the amount of people I help is going to be more beneficial to snowboarding than one local shop with one local sponsored kid.



legallyillegal said:


> hah i was waiting for this inconvenient truth to pop up
> 
> i was going to post it myself, but i don't really give a shit.


 This coming from the guy that acts like a douche bag know it all on here but is always the first to run to me with a private message or email me for my advice. Do us all a favor dipshit and stop being a cum guzzling cum dumpster and sit down, shut the fuck up, and either contribute or stop trolling. We all know you troll solely for the fact that you never got any attention as a child and your father probably shoved the broom handle up your ass. Hell I'm convinced you don't even snowboard but just regurgitate random tidbits people like myself have thrown out as if it's your own intelligent thought. You remind me of this chick Rita that works for one of my friends, she's a try hard that wants to be into whatever is cool but never found out who she is.


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## Triple8Sol (Nov 24, 2008)

BurtonAvenger said:


> I'd control the pricing. I get a print out of what they paid and what the msrp is and I go from that. Prices might not get as low as stuff like Backcountry cause their buying tier is in the 10's of millions, but I could probably give it a fair run to smaller sites that people shop from like Porters or Evo.


Keep in mind that some brands, both large and small, have restrictions/limitations on how their distributors and retailers price their products, when they can/can't offer discounts, etc...



BurtonAvenger said:


> Fuck no, there would never ever EVER be a boot sale EVER by me, maybe boot related products like socks and footbeds but boots as a whole I will never ever sell.


Quoted for future reference 



MunkySpunk said:


> One last thing, if you're worried about blog visitors thinking you're just schilling for your own putative shop, you need to make the distinction: You're not recommending what you're selling, you're selling what you recommend. You need to couch it in those terms.


I agree that this is the key. It has to be clear that your reviews are as free from bias and outside influence as possible, as it is now without any dollars involved. It'll just be up to you to uphold that and resist the temptation to promote more items to offer a wider variety of products to increase potential revenue. Same goes for avoiding any outside influences/pressures that may arise, some of which can be anticipated now, and some of which cannot be.

I don't read your blog on any regular basis, but I've been on a couple times for longer sessions where I read quite a few archived reviews that interested me, in a single sitting. I definitely appreciate what you do, which is similar to what a select few forum members try to do here on SF as well. Whether this endeavor proves successful or not, I personally have no issue with you trying to make a buck for your efforts. I think anyone that currently knows of your site and understands what you're about, would agree. The tricky part is regarding new readership that may not grasp the distinction (above). Lord knows how many lazy half-literate lemmings are online these days.


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## Sam I Am (Sep 9, 2009)

BurtonAvenger said:


> Oh no I offended you for calling out the fact you care about sponsorship heaven forbid that you have a friend that's the next fucking Jed Anderson or Shaun White or whatever kid is the flavor of the season for the next year. Yes all hail the sponsorship for someone thats probably a mediocre rider at best and will fade away into nothingness only to end up like Jimmy Halopoff (sp) being a tile finisher or cabinet master or whatever the fuck he's doing now. Yes get all butt hurt that I'm calling bull shit on sponsorships especially shop sponsorships. Woo this kid showed up to work for us for free lets sponsor him then he went to a demo and turned screws and lets give him a head to toe kit.


Which is why I said this:



Sam I Am said:


> Maybe it's not what it's cut out to be, but hell I'm still going to support him if he does get sponsored. You don't like sponsorship. That's great. But other kids do and you can't say shit to sway their minds. Get over it.





BurtonAvenger said:


> Dan Brisse paints fucking billboards on highways in the off season so he can shred and that dude kills it. Chad Otterstrom yes the Otterpop is a bar tender at Whales Tail in Breck and works at Woodward and that guy has been killing it since you were just a drip of semen down your mothers thigh.


Good for them. If that's how they get to snowboard then no one is critisizing them. 



BurtonAvenger said:


> Don't think I wasn't once that kid with dreams of sponsorship in my eyes but I learned early on what it took and knew I didn't have it, most kids are too stupid for that and end up burnt out has been never was's that piss and moan. Sorry I didn't sugar coat it for you junior that's not my style.


Again. Which is why I said this:



Sam I Am said:


> Maybe it's not what it's cut out to be, but hell I'm still going to support him if he does get sponsored.
> …..................You don't like sponsorship. That's great. But other kids do and you can't say shit to sway their minds. Get over it.





BurtonAvenger said:


> I think there's plenty of sites that are like that go check out transworld or snowboarder mag. They'll continue to tell you that you're the best and you'll be pro as long as you buy into whatever flavor of kool aid they offer this month.


Obviously I'm going to buy into a magazine. They're all knowing, so why not? Sure let's go that route. 
I must have forgotten, or am not smart enough, to ask a real sponsored snowboarder how life is in that lane, and what in entails. Must have just slippped my mind. Thank you for pointing me in the right direction.



BurtonAvenger said:


> Where am I saying don't buy locally? Am I saying buy from me and fuck your local shop, no I'm not saying that hell I'd hope people are buying locally.


Thanks for the clarification.



BurtonAvenger said:


> But how many of you come to me for advice then go and buy from the sierra snowboards, backcountry's, some douche bag local shop you don't like? Yeah that's great that I've done their job for them so they can turn a profit, here's a chance for me to turn it. Have I listed what I'm going to carry? No, have I even said I'm doing it? No! Have I even once said fuck your local shop? Fuck no!


One more time. Which is why is said this:


Sam I Am said:


> If that's what it is then go for it. No one is stopping you.





BurtonAvenger said:


> So try to twist what I've been saying for your stupid retort like you think you can best me at a battle of wits.


You're so smart BA. Only YOU could have figured me out.


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## Sam I Am (Sep 9, 2009)

BurtonAvenger said:


> Truth is I've probably done more for snowboarding than your local shop and helped hundreds more people than them. I don't see anyone else that's dedicated as much time as I have for the last almost 7 years in providing reviews, advice, tech break downs, and all that shit.


No. You've done A LOT. Maybe, maybe not more that “my local shop” who's also been doing that for years. You've helped hundreds. Thanks for that. You've provided reviews, advice, tech break downs, and all that shit. And I'm sincerely glad you have. There's a lot that I didn't understand without you. I'm not going to deny that. 



BurtonAvenger said:


> But hey you're a fucking kid that knows everything aren't you?


Yes. WHICH IS WHY I SAID THIS:



Sam I Am said:


> If I got something wrong, then my god, please help me understand it.





BurtonAvenger said:


> We as snowboarders have to face the fact that online retail is killing off our local shops. Want to argue that one go into your local shop and just see the listed prices of all the current in-line gear, then go to any of the big 5 online stores and see who has the better prices. 9 out of 10 times it's online. Look at the stranglehold Burton put on their dealers only to say fuck it we'll sell direct since it's another medium we can control. But oh wait you in your infinite wisdom have spent countless hours talking with manufacturers large and small about distribution models and the impact of the online market haven't you? Fuck no you haven't so sit down and shut the fuck up you whiney little twat. This opportunity is a chance to take away the customer 29384848 order number 384848 society that's taken over and bring it back to a more one on one experience.


Yeah I got that. Thanks for restating it.



BurtonAvenger said:


> Oh but wait you probably will argue that you know so much about customer service and how you have worked more than half your life in it haven't you? Then you'll argue that you in fact have spent half your life working in the "local" shop.


Hold on there. I thought I was just a kid, like you said earlier. What? Did I age twenty years in the course of a few paragraphs. 

Don't say shit you know nothing about. Hell for all you know I could be a substitute teacher on the off days and the manager of a local bike shop during my usual hours. I never stated I new everything about customer service so don't put words in my mouth. If you've dealt with people like that, then that sucks for you, but I don't fall in the same barrel as they do.



BurtonAvenger said:


> News flash outside of resort areas local shops are dying the only ones that are surviving know how to market themselves online as well as locally.


Wish all shops would follow this example......



BurtonAvenger said:


> So does your local shop have a website oh shit are they taking business from people that live away from your local area where they might have a local shop? Hmm seems a bit flawed there if that's the case.


Perhaps they are taking business away from other local shops. But at least one of 'em is surviving.



BurtonAvenger said:


> Also I asked advice from everyone to take in all sides of things.


Which is why I offered my view.



BurtonAvenger said:


> As many have mentioned the only ones that are there to say don't do it are the jealous no talent ass clowns that don't know how to make their voice heard.


1.I never said don't do it.
2.Cause the only one offering an opposing view are the jealous no talent ass clowns that don't know how to make their voice heard. Or perhaps the opposing view sees something with a down side and is/are trying to point it out and hear what you've got to say about it.



BurtonAvenger said:


> You're like mole man from the Simpsons the one person that always votes no in the public polls with Mayor Quimby.


Again. I never said don't do it. 



BurtonAvenger said:


> Yeah you want to push my buttons go for it but I'll say this I'm out there with a voice that's heard, heard enough so some guys with a shit ton of money are willing to invite me to their idea that is something that could potentially reinvent the online retail market which has been flawed since the 90's.


Good. You have a vioce that's heard. Go fix that online retail market. 



BurtonAvenger said:


> So like many have said what's the risk to me? What one kid who has no concept of the true realities of life says I'm a sell out, but the many that understand the work I put into what I do could potentially throw some business my way if they can't find things locally? Yeah that's a risk I'm willing to take.


Who the hell was calling you a sell out. I looked back though my posts and nope, no such words in there. Stop trying to bring it back to that. 

If they can't find things locally, then whatever, let them through business your way.




BurtonAvenger said:


> So if that makes me a sell out in your eyes so be it. I'll never make everyone happy and I came to terms with that a while ago. But if there's a chance for me to keep on doing what I've been doing for almost 7 years and turn a profit and I don't have to change my formula of how it's done then I'm going to do it.


Read dipwad. READ. I never called you a sell out. What your doing..or what you will be doing will not make you a sell out. Just a knowlegeable person working for another site taking some kind of business away from local shops. 



BurtonAvenger said:


> Because ultimately the amount of people I help is going to be more beneficial to snowboarding than one local shop with one local sponsored kid.


Perhaps in providing better gear / gear advice. But who's going to sponsor that next rail jam all those kids have been practicing for. Some of us actually like those things. It's not just one local shop and one local sponsored kid. It's you countining the online trend, whether you want to admit it or not. Better online service, but still part of the online trend.





BurtonAvenger said:


> This coming from the guy that acts like a douche bag know it all on here but is always the first to run to me with a private message or email me for my advice. Do us all a favor dipshit and stop being a cum guzzling cum dumpster and sit down, shut the fuck up, and either contribute or stop trolling. We all know you troll solely for the fact that you never got any attention as a child and your father probably shoved the broom handle up your ass. Hell I'm convinced you don't even snowboard but just regurgitate random tidbits people like myself have thrown out as if it's your own intelligent thought. You remind me of this chick Rita that works for one of my friends, she's a try hard that wants to be into whatever is cool but never found out who she is.


Poor Rita.....

Yes. He is a “douche bag”. But a funny one at that. And he doesn't troll...all the time. Here's him actually contributing something: 

http://www.snowboardingforum.com/equipment-reviews/20176-anyone-have-ride-kink.html

http://www.snowboardingforum.com/general-equipment-talk/20145-do-you-suppose-lighter-k2-auto.html

http://www.snowboardingforum.com/general-equipment-talk/20118-s-m-binders.html


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## BurtonAvenger (Aug 14, 2007)

Did that really warrant 2 responses? Fuck kid you really want to try and prove a point that does nothing don't you? I highly suggest some reading comprehension classes cause you're really lacking in understanding sarcasm. Oh and while you didn't directly call me a sell out the tone and wording points in a direction that would insinuate that. It's also like you're trying to shame me from doing it cause I'm some how hurting your local scene.

Also you're really hung up on localized sponsorships and contests. Local shop riders hardly do anything in terms of driving business to a shop. Dealt with shop team kids for years maybe 1 of them got a product sold because they repped it, it's just like how ski companies are drifting away from on hill rep riders, they really don't do shit. I've actually started working on putting together an idea for an event here that would meld both the online aspect with the local scene. It's a tough one but it is highly do able. 

Oh but yes lets go the route that I'm just another person adding to the online decline, perhaps that decline starts the second I put my fingers to keys and give someone that can't get good advice locally exactly what they need. Shit I just hindered the mindless local dolt that works at the shop down the street and did his job. Or could it be that this opportunity is taking the right steps to turn around the e commerce side of snowboarding that we have now.

Also Rita is retarded.


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## Sam I Am (Sep 9, 2009)

2 responses...yes, since I was “attempting” to address everything you wrote. Perhaps you've mastered the art of internet sarcasm, but some of us find that's it much too much effort to point it out to others, but I didn't need to since you yourself could tell it was sarcasm. Good for you.

I don't know how bluntly I can put this. I'm not directly nor indirectly calling you a sellout. I don't think your a sellout by doing this, but I'm sure you're going to bring it back to this seeing as you're so intent on you thinking that I'm viewing you as the bad guy.

Okay. You say contests and sponsorships don't do shit for snowboarding business. They are, though, the entertainment part of the business, attracting the potential customers and perhaps future snowboarders. It's good for the scene. 

Glad you good do that online morphing local scene thing. Hope that works out.

Look buddy, my main point “that does nothing” is my worry over the dissappearnce of local shops and what that entails. I view this online thing that you will do a great way for snowboarders to get the gear they want and some good advice, but at the same time, that mindless local dolt just lost his job because the expansion of the internet, which you may be helping, took it. Yeah, he didn't do his freaking job, but he's back out on the streets looking for one, like you might be when the internet shopping thing takes revenue away from your own shop. The shops helped build the snowboard scene, not the online thing.

God I know your whole thing about good customer service and all, but the shops helped build the snowboard scene, not the online thing. I never got to the point I wanted, and should have, stated in the beginning: how is your online gig going to help the scene out? What are you going to do to help it out? Or perhaps you could get something started with the guys from Open Sky and have them do something for, on more time, the snowboard scene. 

Hope that gets my point/question across.

…...oh, and that is why I said 'poor rita'.


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## baldylox (Dec 27, 2007)

Unsubscribed.


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## BurtonAvenger (Aug 14, 2007)

I always thought the point of having a job was to do it and do it well, not to have one and have people take pity on you if you lose it due to the fact you sucked at it. But hey I understand society has changed and everyone wants everyone to feel good cause the new mindset isn't telling people the world is harsh. 

If you're so worried about local shops go work in one and turn it around and shape their online presence and E-commerce. Put in the time to train a staff to not be the mindless dolt that ultimately brings about the decline of your local shop. Buy locally, buy goods made locally, bank locally, do everything locally. Cause as it stands right now the only "local" shops are going to be the ones that have a high volume tourist traffic that allows them to cater to that crowd and even that type of shop is hurting. The power to save anything that's local lies solely in the hands of the locals. 

Like I said in my initial post there's things I like and don't like about Open Sky and I wanted to get everyones perspective before I considered going ahead. I still haven't read the contracts I have to sign to make sure that I'm not giving away my rights and likeness, that they ultimately don't end up owning my domain, or that I have a contract that could fine me if I quit doing my blog. I also have to take into account all the readers whether it's the ones sitting in a cubicle monday through friday living vicariously through me and dreaming of the weekend when they get to shred or the guys that live 15 minutes from me and ride the same mountains I do. There's a lot of fine lines that this is treading and like you said what are they doing for snowboarding, that's the one thing it will always come back to with me. 

I'm always going to be a local shop guy, I work in a local shop. But like I mentioned I have to ask myself is someone else making a buck off my advice worth it to me in the long run. Cause as it stands I could always say fuck it, pull the plug, and not give advice.


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## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

MunkySpunk said:


> You're not recommending what you're selling, you're selling what you recommend.


This is perfect. I think this over anything else describes the shop part of this deal the best. Put this at the top of the store page.


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