# 1st season boarding videos (am I doing this right?!)



## Kevington (Feb 8, 2018)

Looks good! Maybe try and get lower by bending at the knees (not the waist). Next step is carving where you let the sidecut do the work and use the terrain to control your speed rather than skidding against gravity.


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## Donutz (May 12, 2010)

There's a lot of counter-rotation and arm waving going on. You should be initiating your turns lower down into your hips. You're also doing what I guess you'd call skid turns, where you do a quick turn then go in a more-or-less straight line, then skid, etc. Aim instead for arcs. It'll be easier on the legs, and make the tossing around of the upper body less tempting.


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## porterror (Feb 26, 2020)

Donutz said:


> There's a lot of counter-rotation and arm waving going on. You should be initiating your turns lower down into your hips. You're also doing what I guess you'd call skid turns, where you do a quick turn then go in a more-or-less straight line, then skid, etc. Aim instead for arcs. It'll be easier on the legs, and make the tossing around of the upper body less tempting.


Thanks! I definitely do feel some counter-rotation sometimes. I keep trying to use my front shoulder to initiate the turn (someone told me that), but maybe I should start lower in the hips. Some of that video was on some diamond steeps, so I was skidding the turns a bit to slow. I can go decently fast and kick snow out the sides, but only on blues/straights. I can carve a bit, but really need an open area. Checked my line and it was rather cut.


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## WigMar (Mar 17, 2019)

Talking about getting rid of counter rotation, I like to play a game to get my shoulders in alignment. I pretend that's it's pitch dark out, and I'm holding a lantern or flashlight in my lead hand. I shine the light where I'm going to be turning, as if my lead hand was headlights. You lead the turn by shining the light along the whole arc of the turn you're making, keeping the light just in front of the board. If your board isn't travelling in the light's path, you're counter rotated.


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## Donutz (May 12, 2010)

The debate about shoulder rotation vs hip rotation is an ongoing one. If you watch Nev Lapwood (Snowboard Addiction), he actually very overtly moves his lead hand toward the edge he's trying to engage, which means he's initiating the turn from the shoulders down. But some people say that results in a slower turn with more effort. The hip-initiated turn is more subtle, but probably involves more board torsion since what you're really doing is forcing the front knee to move to the desired edge.

Unfortunately, not all supposed experts agree on proper technique, and what is proper technique varies by terrain and speed as well. As far as I'm concerned, the acid test is whatever gives you maximum control with minimum effort is the right way.


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## porterror (Feb 26, 2020)

Donutz said:


> The debate about shoulder rotation vs hip rotation is an ongoing one. If you watch Nev Lapwood (Snowboard Addiction), he actually very overtly moves his lead hand toward the edge he's trying to engage, which means he's initiating the turn from the shoulders down. But some people say that results in a slower turn with more effort. The hip-initiated turn is more subtle, but probably involves more board torsion since what you're really doing is forcing the front knee to move to the desired edge.
> 
> Unfortunately, not all supposed experts agree on proper technique, and what is proper technique varies by terrain and speed as well. As far as I'm concerned, the acid test is whatever gives you maximum control with minimum effort is the right way.


can’t hurt to try next time. I sometimes find it weird when I’m pointing my shoulders and hand to where I want to go, but my lower half/board and feet are still going a different way. I really do think I should be initiating from hips/board and everything same time. At least from my many years of skiing rotation is key, but still trying to figure out how to get it to the board.


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## WigMar (Mar 17, 2019)

porterror said:


> I sometimes find it weird when I’m pointing my shoulders and hand to where I want to go, but my lower half/board and feet are still going a different way.


That's counter rotation. You want to get that out of your riding except for times when you're actively using it, like in the trees or in the park. 

Snowboarding really requires your full body working in concert. Everything is involved from your feet to your head. Getting your body and board in line with themselves simplifies things a lot. Your hips drive things the hardest, but your whole body is important.


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## Maya (Mar 9, 2021)

I understand the debate about starting the movement from the shoulder or directly in the hips, but I miss the point about counter rotation. Maybe this is because I am still not advanced enough in my snowboard skills, but when counter rotation is useful? What does it do?


porterror said:


> I sometimes find it weird when I’m pointing my shoulders and hand to where I want to go, but my lower half/board and feet are still going a different way.


Described like this, I don't get why this was defined counter rotation. To me it seems just another way to say "move first your hands and upper body, rest of the body will follow".
I meet counter rotation while looking at jib series on snowboard addiction (video 7 backside boardslide, second 33). The guy shows that when he jumps to move his board 90° on the left, he also move his upper body some degrees to the right. So he is actually moving his body in the opposite direction wrt to the board rotation. This seems to me really counter rotation (and not only because the guy mentioned it  ). Unfortunately, I was not able to grab any explanation on why counter rotation is needed here.
Can someone help me to understand?


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## Donutz (May 12, 2010)

Maya said:


> I understand the debate about starting the movement from the shoulder or directly in the hips, but I miss the point about counter rotation. Maybe this is because I am still not advanced enough in my snowboard skills, but when counter rotation is useful? What does it do?


That isn't counter-rotation. Counter-rotation is when you move your upper body in the opposite direction from where you want to point your board. What I was talking about was moving your upper body _toward _the desired turn and having the board follow. I think the debate is about whether you're using your upper body momentum to torque the board around, or whether you're using the upper body movement to initiate the turn via board torsion and/or edge transition.


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## Maya (Mar 9, 2021)

Donutz said:


> you're using your upper body momentum to torque the board around,


Can you please elaborate more on the torque, @Donutz ?


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## Donutz (May 12, 2010)

Maya said:


> Can you please elaborate more on the torque, @Donutz ?


In this case I meant where you throw your upper body toward the turn, then pull the lower body around to follow. It's actually how you start a rotation on jumps. It's a valid technique in certain circumstances, like jump-turns on steep narrow tracks, but normally you don't want to use your upper body weight to force a turn via rotation. You shift your body weight fore and aft to change edge engagement, and toward one edge or the other to balance in turns, but mostly it's board control from the hips down that initiates and controls the turns.


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## f00bar (Mar 6, 2014)

Does your wife know you have an invisible girlfriend you have on your arm while snowboarding? 

Just teasing, for season 1 I would mark it off as a smashing success for you. Tons of progress to go I wouldn't say you are behind the curve for first year.


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## porterror (Feb 26, 2020)

f00bar said:


> Does your wife know you have an invisible girlfriend you have on your arm while snowboarding?
> 
> Just teasing, for season 1 I would mark it off as a smashing success for you. Tons of progress to go I wouldn't say you are behind the curve for first year.


{looks at videos again}....omg yes I'm holding an invisible girlfriend...hah. What am I supposed to do with that arm!?


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## f00bar (Mar 6, 2014)

porterror said:


> {looks at videos again}....omg yes I'm holding an invisible girlfriend...hah. What am I supposed to do with that arm!?


Probably the most common thing for new riders. Fix is pretty simple, grab your pant leg. Losing the arm movement will do a lot to fix rotation issues and get you using the board flex and edges to initiate your turns, not arm swings. Plus you won't look like creepy old guy looking for a date.


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## Maya (Mar 9, 2021)

Donutz said:


> It's a valid technique in certain circumstances, like jump-turns on steep narrow tracks, but normally you don't want to use your upper body weight to force a turn via rotation.


I was teached in a not consistent way and I was told to iniziate turns by turning my upper body. Later on, I discovered it would have been easier for me to shift weight from day zero. I mean weight shifting is intuitive enough without faking via shoulder turn. As a consequence I learned to force turns instead of letting the snowboard turn and so I did until I watched tons of videos of snowboard basics. To me, turning has been something that has to finish as soon as possibile even applying torque to that board when it was not needed at all. 
Last (difficult) time on the slope I tried to let the snowboard turning to get a different feeling.

So good to knows It Is not recommended for newbies.


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## ridethecliche (Feb 27, 2019)

f00bar said:


> Does your wife know you have an invisible girlfriend you have on your arm while snowboarding?
> 
> Just teasing, for season 1 I would mark it off as a smashing success for you. Tons of progress to go I wouldn't say you are behind the curve for first year.


+1

I wouldn't worry too much about diamond trails and whatnot. Everything in the pocono's is a bit of a joke. 

All that said, this is really solid for the end of your first season! Stoked!


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## WigMar (Mar 17, 2019)

ridethecliche said:


> +1
> 
> I wouldn't worry too much about diamond trails and whatnot. Everything in the pocono's is a bit of a joke.
> 
> All that said, this is really solid for the end of your first season! Stoked!


Yeah, I saw those trails and couldn't help but think they were awfully mellow for diamonds. Guess that scale is relative to the resort. It wouldn't be very helpful to be looking at a map that was all greens.


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## ridethecliche (Feb 27, 2019)

WigMar said:


> Yeah, I saw those trails and couldn't help but think they were awfully mellow for diamonds. Guess that scale is relative to the resort. It wouldn't be very helpful to be looking at a map that was all greens.


One of them at blue was very hard after the huge dump here when I was riding a board that was way too wide for me. That made navigating the moguls a very tamahawky affair. 

Hunters trails are legit challenging. That mountain probably has some of the best terrain in this area.


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## drblast (Feb 28, 2017)

Maybe I can explain upper-body movements in a different way. But first, you look great for your first season.

Let's look at the second video. On the steeper parts, your body, legs, and board seem really stiff, like I could push you gently on the shoulder and you'd fall over flat. As you turn, your whole stiff body is turning kind of like those inflatable punching toys with the weighted bottom that wobble back and forth. But why is that?

Trace the path you took down the steeper part - it's a mild S shape. But look at where the board is pointed - if you were on edge you would be zipping across that run from side-to-side and making much less downhill progress. What you're doing is essentially flat-basing down the fall line but using skidded turns to control your speed, and it looks like you are turning the board first and trying to follow it with your upper body in order to stay balanced. You're letting the board get ahead of you.

Skidding instead of carving is easier, but exacerbates the upper body balance problem. As you skid turns the tendency is for your board to be very out of alignment with your direction of travel, which is where your body wants to keep going. You'll feel that as tension in your entire body as you try to compensate and balance to keep your body weight centered over the board, but you're already losing that battle because your upper body is on top of where the board was a moment ago, not where it is.

At about the 12 second mark, you get to a flatter part and you move your legs independently of your upper body for the last one or two turns we can see. You're obviously looser and more comfortable here. That's exactly what you want to do on steeper parts. To get there you need to loosen up, get your legs and board working independently of your upper body. Your upper body shouldn't be moving much at all.

In the future I would focus on doing as many turns on that steep part as quickly as possible. When you can do 8-10 quick turns on that part instead of the 3 slow ones you did, you'll know you're progressing because you won't be able to do it off-balance with a stiff upper body. Best part is you can practice that on the flatter parts too.


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## Snowdaddy (Feb 2, 2018)

I would concentrate on doing rounded turns. The progress to carving. This is an excellent video.









Round Smooth Turns


The shape of an ideal snowboard turn is round, smooth, and consistent. In this tutorial we're going to take you through exercises and techniques to get your turns smoother than glass. Want to learn other ways to round out your riding skills? Check out the full Intermediate Riding Series...




snowboardaddiction.com


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## Maya (Mar 9, 2021)

Snowdaddy said:


> I would concentrate on doing rounded turns. The progress to carving. This is an excellent video.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


This video is very interesting. It is what I am trying to learn now.


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## Aracan (Nov 24, 2017)

The first 10 seconds or so of that video show what is also known as "The Norm": On an easy slope, at moderate speed, tilt the board on edge by leaning over a bit. Inclination only, no angulation. The board will draw a line according to its radius. Ride that radius until you are slow enough to comfortably lean into the other direction. Again, no angulation, just inclination. Rinse and repeat. This helps to give you a feeling for "natural" behaviour of the board when tilted on edge.


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