# Does anyone still PREFER camber?



## Nefarious

There are plenty. It all factors into your riding style and comfort. I had 3 camber decks before hybrid and it was a "night and day" difference when I switched. 

Not everyone will be so impressed. 

They still make camber decks for a reason...and it's not for filler to keep on the shelves.


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## Wiredsport

easton714 said:


> I've ridden on high-end cambered decks for 12 or so years and I have been researching/looking for a new board with some new technology for a couple months. I've demoed one rocker (meh) and have never been on a hybrid. The more I research things, the less I am certain that I actually want something with a new shape.
> 
> So that begs the question...are there any experienced boarders who simply prefer a cambered deck?
> 
> Or is there something I am missing?


You aren't alone. Plenty of riders still want some camber in their deck. The trend (if there is one) out of SIA this year was more moderate rocker shapes and the addition of cambered sections into many rockered designs (either Camber Rocker Camber or Rocker Camber Rocker). Pure Camber has become small (less than 30 percent) for 2013 (and even that seems large based on what I was seeing), but it is definitely present and still available. I know that for us, we sell the rockered models that we carry very well as there are less available to choose from. To answer your question, for sure there is a group of experienced riders that still want camber only.


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## easton714

Having seen it in person but not yet ridden it, I am leaning Unity Dominion for this very reason. Mild camber under foot (I do not like the idea of a pivot point between my feet) with a nose rocker.

Thanks guys.

The plain ole rocker I demoed was not a cheap one (Venture). I liked it enough and thought I was sold - but then I spent two days on my Rossi Premier (maybe ten years old) and I couldn't say I didn't like it better. Edge hold, carving, and stability at speed felt better on my old deck.


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## easton714

I just don't want to be the guy who was the last to get a cell phone because he didn't think he needed one. I am a big technology guy but I want to know what is being improved before I jump all in.


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## Leo

If you cannot demo a variety of boards and your next purchase is going to be your main stick, I recommend sticking with what you already like.

If you're looking for a complimentary stick to add to your quiver, it might be fun to add a different shape. You'll always have the cambered stick to fall back on for the days you miss it. Heck, bring both boards to the mountain. I normally bring two in case I feel like switching it up.

With that said, I think you'll like boards with a camber section in between the feet and rocker in the tips. These handle closest to traditional camber boards but gives you the benefit of a rocker's float when needed.

Camber underfoot is also pretty good as you will constantly feel that camber section as you ride. 

Never Summer's RC feels completely like a rocker until you engage an edge, then the camber takes over.


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## little devil

I'd never go back to camber(10+yrs) if that helps you at all...

On my n.s. the under the foot steering and control I get is just way to good to pass up. Switching back to my camber just felt sloppy.


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## wrathfuldeity

So far I (not a park guy...more a fr) perfer a cambered for snap, pop, response, stability at mach and blasting through chop. I had a skate banana...it was alright/fun for spring slush but dead feeling also have a charlie slasher rocker/flat/cam for deep poo and its very nice for surfing deep. But I plan on a through demo of a c2btx.


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## ithrowplastic

I still ride camber. It just works better here in the east where we have a lot of hard pack conditions and edge hold is at a premium. I demoed a few rocker boards and combo decks last season and it just didn't work for me and my riding style fast/agressive, I felt out of control on them. Washy at high speeds and quite chattery. I also rarely ever touch the park....but maybe the rocker or hybrid setup would work better there. I do spend some time in the pipe as well, and can tell you that a bunch of people are still riding stiffer cambered decks there. The deck I have riden the most this season has been the Capita Quiver Killer from last season, I'm happy with it for a stiffer board with camber, and it didn't break my walet.


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## isle1965

The difficulty transitioning to a hybrid profile generally lies in the fact that 
Each RC profile rides significantly differently from one another and from camber.
I dont think that a couple of laps on a demo board gives enough time to adjust to
The changes you need to make in your riding to get the most out of whatever profile you are on.
I very nearly sold my NS raptor after two days solely because it didnt ride like any of my cambered boards.
I convinced myself that camber was the only way to go and bought a CX, what a mistake. Having put in the time on many
Cambered boards and now as of late on the RC raptor, I too am hopping on the "camber is dead to me" band wagon.


.


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## yojik

I'm an experienced rider who prefers camber. It feels like a true snowboard to me. More difficult in powder? You betcha...It will only make you a better rider.


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## tdn

I went from a traditional cambered board to a hybrid (positive camber - rocker - positive camber) board and it's was an awesome change. I absolutely love the hybrid board - but with that said, I did buy another tradition cambered board a few weeks ago (ride dh), it was mostly an impulse buy but I can't wait to ride a traditional cambered board again. I'm glad I learned on a traditional cambered board and I suggest all beginners learn on them to be better riders overall. I do intent on picking a third board soon, a soft rockered board that's mostly for park/street.

I don't know where I'm going with this. 

If buying blindly I'd suggest going for a hybrid if you're only going to stick with one board, otherwise, go for what feels best after demoing that isn't a board you already have and plan on riding in the future.


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## qwezxc12

For most riding, I prefer traditional camber. I like the precision, edge control, and snap. Every year, when possible, I demo boards thinking I'll find a hybrid that I like... and every year I feel like I'm careening down the mountain on a spoon. I'm learning that if someone describes a board as "playful", I'll absolutely hate it.


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## CheeseForSteeze

I like flat, it's a good compromise, though it is much more toward the camber side of the spectrum. A lazy man's camber, so to speak, or "dead" camber. You get the same edge hold and railability for carving as well as no rebound but it also doesn't require energy to decamber the board to get it to turn. Snap is almost the same as camber. Camber still is definitely useful.

After riding The System, I don't think I'll be on hybrid again, although hybrids do offer an awesome compromise of camber and reverse camber with few of the drawbacks. Just has a mild learning curve. However, I've found that The System gives you full rocker (awesome playfulness) and addresses many of the drawbacks that hybrids try to without losing the benefits of continuous rocker.


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## Ryan_T

I still use my camber board regularly. I'd say about 50/50 with my hybrid camber. There's a bite/grip to it on hard icy conditions around here that I can't let go yet.


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## SnowRock

I was someone who upgraded equipment this year (after getting back into the game last year) but without having a chance to demo. This message board helped me understand a lot of the new jargon, but at the end of the day I stuck with what I knew and purchased the Mans Board from Salomon. It has some rocker in the tail/tip but not very noticeable to me yet (especially given the conditions I have ridden). I do find it "slightly" more forgiving versus my older stick which was a Definition. 

Now that I am back to riding more I would like to try something a bit more playful. Hoping to have the chance to demo which is never easy being based on the EC. Interested in some of the Libs/NS and Bataleons.. would like to add something to my "quiver" at the end of the season on the cheap.


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## hikeswithdogs

I came from riding Burton T6's which could be argued as being the near pinnacal of cambered boards, my TurboDream doesn't quite "rail" like they used to but it's good enough and the other advantages it has like powder riding and easier spins more forgiving landings ect just makes it more fun to ride. I mean I guess I could still take one out if I was doing border cross or something but that would be about it.

I would try demo's one of K2's flatline tech boards and see how it feels , from what I understand it's a great compromise but I don't just fine laying down giant rail carves with my traditional rocket TD and there's no way I'd give up it's powder performance. Took me probably 4-5 days of riding it(and making stance adjustments) thought to really get used to it though.


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## grafta

I think it really depends on how and where you ride.

I'm constantly blown away by the versatility of my RC deck.

I'm a one board guy and can ride it happily around Seymour in fairly hard pack (mildly icy) night conditions or blast pow up at Whistler on it.

I struggled to cover that much territory on my camber deck


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## HoboMaster

As someone who avoids groomers if possible, the only allure camber holds to me is for mach-speed bombing. Grant you I can still do that on a hybrid park board...


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## bobthegood

I learned on camber, and like most of us rode them for lotsa years. Now I ride 2 RC's and a C2. I think I would ride someone else's traditional camber board, but I do not believe I would ever buy one again.


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## rader023

Snowolf said:


> I learned on camber and still ride my cambered decks now and then. I switched to the C2 profile ( camber rocker camber) and honestly am not looking back. I honestly don't understand this feeling of washing out or being out if control some people complain about. Whether it is my NS Heritage and now Cobra or my Gnu Billy Goat, when you get them on edge, the camber kicks in and they rail just as hard as any camber deck I have ridden. I am no slouch either; I am in the top 5% of fastest riders and frequently pass most riders. I clocked 57 MPH on my Heritage last year which is as fast as I would ever really go on camber.
> 
> It sounds like people just are not adapting to the subtle nuances of learning to ride hybrids effectively. Now when it comes to rebound in carving then yeah, the camber is where it is at. I do love that rebound and keep a cambered deck around for that. For everything else, I find the hybrid does it better.





hikeswithdogs said:


> I came from riding Burton T6's which could be argued as being the near pinnacal of cambered boards, my TurboDream doesn't quite "rail" like they used to but it's good enough and the other advantages it has like powder riding and easier spins more forgiving landings ect just makes it more fun to ride. I mean I guess I could still take one out if I was doing border cross or something but that would be about it.
> 
> I would try demo's one of K2's flatline tech boards and see how it feels , from what I understand it's a great compromise but I don't just fine laying down giant rail carves with my traditional rocket TD and there's no way I'd give up it's powder performance. Took me probably 4-5 days of riding it(and making stance adjustments) thought to really get used to it though.


Flatline is awesome. I have a K2 slayblade and I would put it close to my atomic alibi that was cambered as my fastest boards that I feel safe on. Hit around 55mph on both. I do not feel safe riding at speed on my ride highlife though, may have more to do with length than anything, since its flat in the middle as well.


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## Soul06

I still ride camber as well. I am not much for park or tricks. I just like to ride down the slopes as fast as I can. And seeing as I am on the east coast and have to deal with icy slopes often (especially this suck ass winter ) my camber board (Custom X) has served me better than my Hybrid (2010 Flying V). 
When and if I ever get to experience some true deep powder then my Flying V might be the board of choice as its still a very nice ride. But for now its camber for me


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## bebop_monk

I made the swith this year, and will never consider a camber board again (excluding TBT). My Yes has camber between the feet, and rocker outside, so it feels and handles like a cambered deck for the most part, just turns quicker and floats better, just all around more fun than camber. My Salomon is flat rocker, and def a ton more fun in the park than any camber decks I've ridden. Camber is definitely dead to me.


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## Butterscotch

I've been riding cambered boards for 9 years up until this season. I've only tried the v-rocker as far as the new profiles go which is on my Burton Hero. At this point I don't think I can do without either of them. I love them both however, I am still leaning toward traditional camber as being my personal choice. The rocker profile just doesn't carve very well and it has ZERO grip on steep icy slopes that my cambered board slices right through without much trouble. Its a huge night and day difference.

This is my comparison. Both setups are using the same bindings (older missons on the 7, newer missions on the Hero) and exact same boots. 
My old cambered Burton Se7en (first one Burton made) Its a very stiff park board with lots of camber for popping off jumps.
Pros:
-LOADS of edge grip and control up to the highest speeds I've been able to reach on it (terminal velocity down our diamond slopes)
-Very responsive and positive feel while transition from edge to edge.
-More pop than you could ever possibly need for large park jumps and some pipe riding.
Cons:
-Catching edges is pretty easy and unforgiving. Can make landing from a big jump slightly off square very painful.
-Low speed maneuverability isn't all that agile.

2011 Burton Hero with V-Rocker and pretty soft flex.
Pros:
-Difficult to catch an edge.
-Very playful at low speeds for buttery ground tricks.
-The soft flex gives me a better feel on rails.
-Easy to recover from landing off-center.
Cons:
-Does not grip ice at all
-Doesn't carve well at all unless its slushy or powder.
-Doesn't have that nice responsive feel while transitioning from edge to edge at higher speeds.
-The pop is ok but I could definitely use more in the park.

I've been bringing both with me and just use whatever stick I want at the time. If I want to carve through the diamond slopes than I bring the 7, if I want to play around in the park or on shallow slopes than I use the Hero. The resorts I normally go to make it pretty easy to access the parking lot from the slope so its not that big of a deal. I know at some resorts it can be a long walk back to the car. In the end my Burton Se7en can do it all very well but the Hero is limited to lower speeds and good snow conditions. For the record I can't fucking stand the Hero on icy conditions!!!!!

I haven't tried a hybrid profile yet but I'd like to pretty soon. I might wait till next year though.

P.S. My fiancee is new to snowboarding this year and is progressing very quickly. She has a Ride Solace, Rome Lo-Fi cambered (bought and rode yesterday), and shes tried my two current boards. She likes cambered the most. She loves the Se7en for its edge hold and her new Lo-Fi because of its edge hold but has a more responsive feel and fairly forgiving edges. So shes for cambered boards over anything else.


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## grafta

Butterscotch said:


> I've been riding cambered boards for 9 years up until this season. I've only tried the v-rocker as far as the new profiles go which is on my Burton Hero. At this point I don't think I can do without either of them. I love them both however, I am still leaning toward traditional camber as being my personal choice. The rocker profile just doesn't carve very well and it has ZERO grip on steep icy slopes that my cambered board slices right through without much trouble. Its a huge night and day difference.
> 
> This is my comparison. Both setups are using the same bindings (older missons on the 7, newer missions on the Hero) and exact same boots.
> My old cambered Burton Se7en (first one Burton made) Its a very stiff park board with lots of camber for popping off jumps.
> Pros:
> -LOADS of edge grip and control up to the highest speeds I've been able to reach on it (terminal velocity down our diamond slopes)
> -Very responsive and positive feel while transition from edge to edge.
> -More pop than you could ever possibly need for large park jumps and some pipe riding.
> Cons:
> -Catching edges is pretty easy and unforgiving. Can make landing from a big jump slightly off square very painful.
> -Low speed maneuverability isn't all that agile.
> 
> 2011 Burton Hero with V-Rocker and pretty soft flex.
> Pros:
> -Difficult to catch an edge.
> -Very playful at low speeds for buttery ground tricks.
> -The soft flex gives me a better feel on rails.
> -Easy to recover from landing off-center.
> Cons:
> -Does not grip ice at all
> -Doesn't carve well at all unless its slushy or powder.
> -Doesn't have that nice responsive feel while transitioning from edge to edge at higher speeds.
> -The pop is ok but I could definitely use more in the park.
> 
> I've been bringing both with me and just use whatever stick I want at the time. If I want to carve through the diamond slopes than I bring the 7, if I want to play around in the park or on shallow slopes than I use the Hero. The resorts I normally go to make it pretty easy to access the parking lot from the slope so its not that big of a deal. I know at some resorts it can be a long walk back to the car. In the end my Burton Se7en can do it all very well but the Hero is limited to lower speeds and good snow conditions. For the record I can't fucking stand the Hero on icy conditions!!!!!
> 
> I haven't tried a hybrid profile yet but I'd like to pretty soon. I might wait till next year though.


Yeah, I don't ever see anyone raving about how good burtons alt camber decks are


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## grafta

Sorry, V-rocker is straight rocker not hybrid?


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## KIRKRIDER

bobthegood said:


> I learned on camber, and like most of us rode them for lotsa years. Now I ride 2 RC's and a C2. I think I would ride someone else's traditional camber board, but I do not believe I would ever buy one again.



Camber. I still have to try a different profile. I should get a Bataleon to test soon.


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## Unowned

camber will always be around

pretty sure all, if not most (serious) boarderx and slalom guys run camber...

but general direction industry and enthusiasts are headed is towards versatility and freestyle


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## CheoSamad

After having ridden both full rocker and Camber I say that when I started I was on a cambered deck. Then I want to rocker for the park but came crawling back to camber for my park board and want to keep it that way.


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## TorpedoVegas

I learned on camber and rode it for years with no trouble, but after being away from the sport for a few years I decided to check out this new tech and bought a new2 TRice Pro with the C2BTX. It took me a good 4 or 5 days to really feel 100% comfortable on it, but now I don't think I would go back to regular camber. The float in powder is great and I find the edge hold fantastic on hard pack and ice due to the magnetraction....big time sold on that. One of the reasons I wanted to try the hybrid rocker tech was because I had read that it didn't catch edges like regular camber. After putting in a good 8 days on the C2BTX I have to say that you can still catch an edge, but it doesn't throw you around as bad when it happens. If I got sloppy and caught my edge, I was easily able to recover from it and it saved me from a few bad crashes I may have had on a regular camber deck.


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## LightninSVT

Learned and rode camber for years. I had my board stolen 2 years ago and bought a NS hybrid due to the lack of options in a traditional cambered board. I bought a used K2 Zeppelin camber board this year because the Rocker/Camber felt to loose straight lining it at high speeds. Maybe I'm not experienced enough, but I have been riding for about 11-12 years.

Btw, I kept the NS Legacy just in case I run into any powder. I don't really like the feel of it on icy groomers. Maybe I just need to give it longer, I only rode it for about 3 days.:dunno:

Jon


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## dreampow

I leaned on posi camber too and glad I did. I have ridden a few different types of board now and they all have their strong points. For me pure posi camber is not something I will be riding anymore. I rockered up the tip in my posi camber Volkl DIY style and it just rides better in pow.

Since I ride a lot of pow and deep pow its just better. Ride are now making boards like this with posi camber in the back for carving and just a gentle rocker in the tip for better float (Highlife, Bezerker). These could be a good board for someone making the transition IMO.

My 2011 highlife is flat in the middle and has slightly rockered tips. Its close to posi camber but just better all round IMO, you can do more things easier with it.

I will probably buy a full rocker (or maybe a hybrid) for my next board as part of my quiver. 

I would definitely say it takes a few days to really dial in a new board profile that you are not used to.


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## Rezist

I've rode the same cambered deck for about ten years and recently switched it up to a hybrid. I must say the biggest loss is the rebound from carve to carve, since I have a rocker/camber/rocker combo the edge hold is still there and I still have stability. I have way better float and far better low speed carving/turn initiation on the hybrid. But at the same time I'm still a tad disappointed.


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## horia.ancas

I started like most of you guys on camber, but this year (after 10 years on camber) I bought a Park Pickle (banana rocker). I can't even begin to tell you how much I love this board. It's so playful and forgiving but I can still bomb on it. Granted, you always have to be centered on it or else you will pivot around the rocker and wash out, but after you know this it's insanely fun.
Also, buttering at high speeds is a walk in the park with the pickle. Also, I can't believe it floats just like my cambered Vapor and it's 9 cm shorter. I haven't touched the Vapor ever since I got the Pickle.

Camber is dead to me


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## woodhomie1996

I prefer camber and if not camber flat I am not a rocker person. It just feels too loose for me


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## Cr0_Reps_Smit

i will probably never ride traditional camber again


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## easton714

Thoughts on Bataleon/TBT camber?


Does the TBT make the camber better? Or does the TBT just make the camber acceptable?

Just curious...

Checking out a Bataleon stick at the moment...


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## Extremo

All of the reverse camber and alt camber boards I have tried are junk. I'd like to try the TBT and zero camber, as long as it's not too noodly.


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## dskache

I still prefer traditional camber, only demoed a rocker for a couple days and my buddy has one. I think they are fun but i still dont feel like i can cut as well as i can with my camber and we ride in icy conditions like 90% of the time..


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## GnarlyCharlie

Atmosphere Cambered Snowboards. Way Worthy! Skateboards/Snowboards - Atmosphere Clothing Store


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## dreampow

Extremo said:


> All of the reverse camber and alt camber boards I have tried are junk. I'd like to try the TBT and zero camber, as long as it's not too noodly.


what have you tried?

Junk is a bit strong. Maybe not your thing. Each profile has strong points and weak points IMO.


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## ippy

Theres probably a profile out there for everyone right now. Its a fun time. Im particularly pleased to see the tweaking of camber itself to something less aggressive (which you might be finding in the way people are messing around with zero profiles). In truth it would be hard to say if i would drop camber altogether, because honestly it just feels locked. You get spanked and you probably realise that it was more often something you did rather than a case of the terrain bouncing you around a bit. 

Of course, it kinda sucks in pow and right now we are swimming in it in japan, so my camber rides are benched for the minute. But in a few weeks or so when it starts getting icy and cut, ill be back on camber and happy bombing away through the conditions. Its pretty much the pop though that sells me on it. The quiver killer last year had nice pop, and the riot this year feels pretty similar (if a little quicker). 

So yeah, camber has a place, hybrid has a place, i just go with how im feeling that day


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## ETM

I love camber again after riding my chop shop swallow tail supermodel in japan this year. It just needs a longer more gradual nose with a more pointy shape to be my ultimate board. I wont consider anything without aggressive camber anymore but finding such a board is difficult.


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## dreampow

ETM said:


> I love camber again after riding my chop shop swallow tail supermodel in japan this year. It just needs a longer more gradual nose with a more pointy shape to be my ultimate board. I wont consider anything without aggressive camber anymore but finding such a board is difficult.


You had it done at a shop?

A DIY job?


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## ETM

Well technically it was done at a shop. My workshop but its usually turbo fabrications going down not snowboards.
Its my board and I chopped it, first time Ive ever chopped a snowboard. I think that counts as DIY.
Chop shop is just a term I used in the above post and you are nailing me for it lol.


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## dreampow

ETM said:


> Well technically it was done at a shop. My workshop but its usually turbo fabrications going down not snowboards.
> Its my board and I chopped it, first time Ive ever chopped a snowboard. I think that counts as DIY.
> Chop shop is just a term I used in the above post and you are nailing me for it lol.


I'd love to hear a report on how you did it and how you sealed up the cut edge properly.

I would maybe have a go myself.


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## ETM

If you live in japan you really need a swallowtail IMO.
I updated the thread detailing the chop job.

http://www.snowboardingforum.com/boards/44874-my-diy-swallow-tail-burton-supermodel.html


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## Extremo

dreampow said:


> what have you tried?
> 
> Junk is a bit strong. Maybe not your thing. Each profile has strong points and weak points IMO.


Park Pickle, skate banana, parkstar, and the Horrorscope. The horrorscope was just a sloppy noodle, the parkstar was loose but not as soft, the park pickle and skate banana were stiffer but couldn't handle high speeds. I could see if all you were doing was jibbing they'd be ok, but even for that rev camber isn't necessary, so I wouldn't recommend sacraficing the versatility of camber for it.


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## dreampow

ETM said:


> If you live in japan you really need a swallowtail IMO.
> I updated the thread detailing the chop job.
> 
> http://www.snowboardingforum.com/boards/44874-my-diy-swallow-tail-burton-supermodel.html


You sir are a craftsman, if you lived near me I would happily pay you to do mine.

Enjoy Hokkaido we are having an insane year. Be safe though. I honestly don't think you should or need to go far from the groomed runs this year. there is more than enough powder without taking big risks.


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## Soul06

ippy said:


> Of course, it kinda sucks in pow and right now we are swimming in it in japan...


You didn't have to say that  Over here on the US east coast we're starving for snow. Getting excited over 3 inches and you over there doing backstrokes through the deep good fluffy stuff.


Excuse me.....I'm going to go cry now
lol


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## Extremo

Snowolf said:


> Sounds like you might not like fully rockered boards. I don`t either. I am on a hybrid profile now with Neversummer and Gnu. I am finding that I really dig the camber-rocker-camber profile. They are fun a playful when flat based and have the edge hold and stability at speed once up on edge. I find this profile is the best of both worlds.


I have yet to try a hybrid camber board. I was close to pulling the trigger on the Capita BSOD, but was afraid I wouldn't like it. I just like going fast and would hate to compromise response and stabilty without gaining something incredible in return. If I can find one cheap I'll probably check it out this season.


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## Sick-Pow

That unity is a smart choice. Rad company.

The venture you tried are mainly for pow. And that type of rocker has drawbacks. Hybrid gives nothing up that a Camber deck has, just different.

Coming from skateboarding, I like the hybrid cambers FLying V, C2, Never SUmmer versions with the saucer in the middle and also weighting the contact points for camber.

The hybrid cambers that are straight camber with rocker in the tip and/or tail are, directional versions Jones, S-rocker, Unity and more

twinsh (but the camber/rocker profile is twin) Capita BDOD, Rome anthem ss, .more too I imagine.


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## Morgan514

Camber rocks! If you ride for speed and air camber has no competition. A tad reverse camber in tips can be nice for deeper snow days.


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## ETM

dreampow said:


> You sir are a craftsman, if you lived near me I would happily pay you to do mine.


Haha cheers mate.
If the boards im going to start pressing come out good I will bring a few over with me for you guys to try out. They do have 15mm camber but I may make a rocker version for hakkoda seeing as it has no groomed runs at all so a hakkoda board may as well be a big banana.


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## zakuma

Wiredsport said:


> teensnowboarding You aren't alone. Plenty of riders still want some camber in their deck. The trend (if there is one) out of SIA this year was more moderate rocker shapes and the addition of cambered sections into many rockered designs (either Camber Rocker Camber or Rocker Camber Rocker). Pure Camber has become small (less than 30 percent) for 2013 (and even that seems large based on what I was seeing), but it is definitely present and still available. I know that for us, we sell the rockered models that we carry very well as there are less available to choose from. To answer your question, for sure there is a group of experienced riders that still want camber only.


HI. Would you happen to know why these riders only want Camber? thanks


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## Soul06

zakuma said:


> HI. Would you happen to know why these riders only want Camber? thanks


I would imagine because Camber has the best stability at high speeds and not everyone is into the tricks, spinning and jibbing. Thats just my guess.


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## ThunderChunky

It's nice for jumps. I can notice quite a bit on my rocker board that it washes out on landings after I try to spin and land on edge.


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## CheeseForSteeze

If you stomp down, you can send it on a reverse camber board just like a camber board. There are also reverse camber boards that handle speed and chop just as well as regular camber boards; this is more a product of good damping than camber shape. Really, anything you can do on camber you should be able to do on reverse camber as well as all the hybrid shapes (R&C, camber with rocker tips, flat, flat with rocker etc) after riding a little bit and getting a feel. Some camber shapes make some things somewhat easier or feel different underfoot so really, it's boils down to preference.


----------



## marcdeo

perhaps its just me.....

im 5'10" 200lbs

my solomon is a 158, my Coda is a 161.

lately I have been riding an Arbor Coda (coming from a solomon official camber). The coda has a parabolic rocker. I had all the typical preconceived notions. I assumed it would be Pivoty when flat basing on those long groomers. I was preparing to have my back end wash out when I landed backseat. I expected to lose stability when carving at high speeds.

It felt as stable when flat basing as my camber - I couldn't tell a difference. I FLEW down runs and it held an edge like a goddam wolverine. and not once did I wash out when landing backseat. 

I realize that every board is different, and I guess that's my point. Lumping boards into + or - camber is an over simplification. There are SOOOO many variables to consider, from rider ability/preference, riding conditions, edge alterations (magne traction/vario/GripTech etc)...


----------



## Wiredsport

zakuma said:


> HI. Would you happen to know why these riders only want Camber? thanks


There are plenty of reasons that we hear. Tons of stored energy/pop, Full running length in contact, most dynamic transitions from edge to edge. For some they are used to it, like it, and it is just what a snowboard feels like. This is definitely not to say that all experienced riders want only camber, just that there is certainly a group that does. Every design has benefits and drawbacks. It is a series of hits, preference and compromise.


----------



## wrathfuldeity

This page has some relevance

http://www.snowboardingforum.com/boards/46606-rocker-not-rocker-end-my-misery-2.html


----------



## Snowrat

marcdeo said:


> perhaps its just me.....
> 
> I realize that every board is different, and I guess that's my point. Lumping boards into + or - camber is an over simplification. There are SOOOO many variables to consider, from rider ability/preference, riding conditions, edge alterations (magne traction/vario/GripTech etc)...


Pretty much spot on, although IMHO camber and flex are the biggest factors. I've demo'd a lot, and found I need two... My Rome Anthem (161cm) is a traditional camber. Great for fast and steep. Riding gates is smooth and stable. The midrange flex gets me lots of pop when I want to get air, but it's terrible for butters and park or any trick that doesn't involve launching off a hit (jump 180s take a lot of effort). My Burton Custom (154cm) is a flying V and is fun in the park, unassisted pops or ollies (as opposed to launching off a hit) and general dancing around (It pivots easily). On faster terrain (steeps, gates, etc) I have to put a lot of effort in scrubbing off speed to keep it stable. The traditional camber under feet allows it to carve nicely at moderate speeds, but the flex and reverse camber between the feet makes it pivot unpredictably at higher speeds. This season I've tended toward more park riding, so my Rome is getting little use, but I don't think I'll ever give up the traditional camber entirely.


----------



## conwayeast

I'd recommend starting with some sort of hybrid version. To go from camber to a full rockered deck doesn't seem like the smartest thing. I have been riding a K2 Parkstar lately and have loved it. 

This weekend I got a YES Basic with camrock and it is pretty awesome. Felt comfortable on it 20sec into riding it and on my first run was riding thru icy glades with it no problem. For a board on the cheaper end of the spectrum is def something to consider.

I have also own a NS Legacy and K2 Slayblade.


----------



## hikeswithdogs

Just rode a camber board for the first time almost 2 years over the weekend, and yea I'll never go back if I don't have to. Way more work in the powder and much more effort to muscle it around for tight turns.


----------



## Triple8Sol

I have quite a few friends that have stuck with traditional camber. It works just fine for them in everything from park to trees to pow, as it has since the beginning. Like others have said though, I'm over it though, and am all about the hybrids.


----------



## poutanen

Not that I'm a racer or boarder-x guy, but I usually look to sports to give me a perspective.

The Kessler boards use a camber with "lifted tips" profile that I guess people could call rocker-camber-rocker if they really wanted, but I think it's just that the tip portion starts to rise earlier.

Personally, I ride is stiff as F*^& camber board, I ride the shit out of it, yes it takes more muscle through powder but I don't snowboard because it's an easy thing to do. I don't have anything against flat or rocker boards, but add me to the Camber Camp. :thumbsup:


----------



## Mattizhere

i personally ride a rome artifact as my main board, its the cambered version....powder wise it holds up great, but when there is a REAL powder day i take out my ride machete, (low-rise rocker) which flys thorugh powder like its nothing


----------



## KIRKRIDER

Camber, and a JJ Hovercraft rocker, camber, rocker for pow days.


----------



## poutanen

Mattizhere said:


> i personally ride a rome artifact as my main board, its the cambered version....powder wise it holds up great, but when there is a REAL powder day i take out my ride machete, (low-rise rocker) which flys thorugh powder like its nothing


:blink:










Thread's over a year old, and now that I've had more time on various camber boards, I think I like camber with a lifted nose the best. Had the stiff heavily cambered T7 out in deep powder the other day, and I noticed myself having to work at a slope that would normally be fun. This was a mild slope so I had to head down the fall line and stand back more. The lifted nose shape on my other board makes it feel more surfy.

Also, the other board rails harder than the T7, so I think carving has more to do with effective edge and other board specs than camber profile. That said you won't find me riding a "moustache rocker" any time soon! :dizzy:


----------



## Banjo

Camber is the only thing I can ride in a halfpipe...


----------



## Rockpen

I'm torn on this. I like both, RC for playing around and camber for when my adrenaline fueled devil horns come out. Sure the camber kicks in when it's on edge, they say. Well I don't like riding on my edges, and I don't like carving or turning as it slows you down. I would like to try the unity whale with camber under the feet and rocker in the nose but that board is hard to come by over here.


----------



## poutanen

Rockpen said:


> Well I don't like riding on my edges, and I don't like carving or turning as it slows you down.


:blink:

What DO you like to do then?!? :icon_scratch:


----------



## Banjo

Rockpen said:


> I don't like carving or turning as it slows you down.


You're doing it wrong....


----------



## Rockpen

poutanen said:


> :blink:
> 
> What DO you like to do then?!? :icon_scratch:


Flat basing blacks. FTW! No that is not a joke, I like to flat base down black runs, the steeper the better. Within reason of course, some slopes are too steep for too long to flat base the whole thing.


----------



## KIRKRIDER

Dude...do you snowboard? 
No man...I flatboard.  I flatboard blacks.


----------



## poutanen

Banjo said:


> You're doing it wrong....


:thumbsup:



Rockpen said:


> Flat basing blacks. FTW! No that is not a joke, I like to flat base down black runs, the steeper the better. Within reason of course, some slopes are too steep for too long to flat base the whole thing.


Doesn't that get boring? Don't you live in the alps? I thought there was some good terrain there?!? :dunno: I think EVERY slope I ride is too steep and or long to flatbase and not end up in serious pain.

Nevertheless, camber wins. Thread done.


----------



## Rockpen

KIRKRIDER said:


> Dude...do you snowboard?
> No man...I flatboard.  I flatboard blacks.


Sometimes I actually do snowboard and use my edges and turn. But if the freshys are gone and the slopes are icy then I like to play rocket man most of the morning, then head over to the park and do a few boardslides, then call it a day and head over to the watering hole.


----------



## poutanen

You have hills like this available to you, and you want to go down them STRAIGHT!?! You sure you're not trollin'? :blink:


----------



## Rockpen

poutanen said:


> :thumbsup:
> 
> 
> 
> Doesn't that get boring? Don't you live in the alps? I thought there was some good terrain there?!? :dunno: I think EVERY slope I ride is too steep and or long to flatbase and not end up in serious pain.
> 
> Nevertheless, camber wins. Thread done.


Oh there is some awesome terrain here and no it does not get boring as my tolerance increases and I need more speed. I don't do this everyday on every run but when the need for speed arises then yes, flat basing it is.


----------



## Rockpen

poutanen said:


> You have hills like this available to you, and you want to go down them STRAIGHT!?! You sure you're not trollin'? :blink:


No I would not flat base that, and no I am not trolling. Sorry but I should of said flat basing Black groomed runs.


----------



## CassMT

going all the way back to the OP...

i've always ridden a full camber board...when i look down the length of a C2 or C3, magnatraction, etc..-my gut asks, is this really better? is this gonna have the pop from carve to carve i want?

regardless, i willl try the 'new'...i was planning to demo a SkunkApe all thru this season, but it just never worked out, either someone had it out, of i just didnt want to spend a pow day getting used to the demo

so, i can't say 'prefer', for sure, only...tbd

next season, before i get a new deck, i will demo everything out there i can


----------



## jdang307

Tadashi makes me want to try a TDF. Doesn't look like he has trouble in the pow :laugh:

Of course I suck and he's sorta kinda good.

Drop at 1:46 is bigger than anything I would even dare think about doing, in real life or in my dreams.

and the sequence starting at 2:10 is just plain hilarious.


----------



## daniel42

I have Tadashi's first year burton promodel which is the exact same shape as his current model, but with what appears to be quite different internals.

I have ridden it in powder (up to waist deep) a few times with varying amounts of success, always with a centered stance.

I have only seen him ride his pro models in videos (or what looks like them) and having ridden his board (not that I am that good a rider), I can say the magic is in Tadashi himself not his board.


----------



## CassMT

daniel42 said:


> ....the magic is in Tadashi himself not his board.


that's gonna be the case with any board...whatever the advances, or marketing, there's no magic


----------



## MarshallV82

I like both I guess.

I love how playful the Evo is.
I love how stable and fast the supermodel is.


I don't have a large sample size though.


----------



## daniel42

The reality is though that not all boards are equal for all the different riding scenarios.

Tadashi seems to ride almost exclusively in deep backcountry powder on what is pretty much a normal sized (157 I think), camber, twin tipped park board.

If a person on this forum described the riding that Tadashi does and asked for a board recommendation, I very much doubt the TDF would be on that list.

People would be suggesting things like powder snakes and charlie slashers.

So I guess in response to someone watching Tadashi and wanting to buy his board, all I was trying to say is don't. Something like a powdersnake will probably make a regular snowboarder ride like Tadashi more than a TDF will, as sometimes it helps to buy talent.

*Disclaimer: I have never ridden a powdersnake or a charlie slasher.


----------



## ItchEtrigR

Camber for me, however I'm digging the 3 stage rocker (flat between the bindings) and i absolutely love my Slayblade flat through the contacts.
Rocker is fun, camber is technical & flat is a nice medium between the two. 

I'm looking forward for k2 new lifted profile if i can move my Slayblade I'll pick one up for next season.


----------



## Rockpen

Snowolf said:


> Still no change here in my opinion. Been over a year since this zombie thread reemerged from the grave and I love RCR even more. I personally have zero desire to ride traditional camber any more. I recently broke out the old Atomic Coldsmoke full camber and honestly, on the hard packed piste, both my Billy Goat and every Neversummer I have tested blow it away as far as carving and stability at speed. Then when I went into the tight trees with it, it was more work than fun to negotiate the tight trees. The Moguls that I can now run a zipper line in the same path as a skier with my RCR boards was just plain sucktastic on the Atomic. In both cases, I can ride it well, but its just not nearly as fun. Yes, I do know how to ride a cambered deck too. I learned on them and taught on them for about 5 years before switching the RCR. The only reason I am even keeping the thing is purely sentimental value; it and the Forum Destroyer were the boards I learned on.
> 
> The rocker-camber-rocker profile wins hands down to full camber for me. Traditional camber may be fine for cruising groomers with the old women, but when it gets technical, they are inferior in every way......:cheeky4:


I have tested the camrock on Nidecker and I "think" the rocker-camber-rocker produces a more stable ride at break neck speeds than the camber-rocker-camber design. I say think because I have not rode enough models to make a definitive statement. I did test a new NS premier for one run and even though it was much more stable than my proto (duh) it was not near as stable as my cambered premier. I would really like to test the raptor and summit before I decide which system works best for me and my riding but so far it looks like I prefer camber to be in the middle.


----------



## Greyvdub

Rode only on a very aggressive camber board for the past ~6/7 years (Palmer Carbon Circle I & II), this year was the first year I bought a used 2011 Ride Highlife UL, which is a very slight camber to flat board. 

Really enjoyed it for all around conditions, thought it was more "playful" than the Palmer (its probably 30% lighter), but the Palmer cannot be matched, in my opinion, with edge hold and stability at high speeds. 

I will be packing both to my next trip, but probably grabbing the Ride for most days I want to just goof around a bit....


----------



## behi

Rockpen said:


> I have tested the camrock on Nidecker and I "think" the rocker-camber-rocker produces a more stable ride at break neck speeds than the camber-rocker-camber design.


I would say that really depends on the design. I have a CRC board that is more stable than any camber board I've tried. The rocker in the middle is much softer than the camber sections under the feet (the camber sections are something like 3x stiffer).

Not sure, what break neck speed is for you; for me it's 60mph, my CRC board is stable and doesn't show any vibrations/chatter.


----------



## Bullboy145

Like snowolf, I learned on a Camber, back when I got my Chopper, even that had camber to some degree, sure, Easy Rider was there, but camber is camber. I guess learning on camber makes it easier to ride RCR, Flying V, Doubledog, or whatever companies are calling Hybrid Camber these days. I myself ride a Custom Smalls now, with Flying V, and dang, the thing rides nicer.


----------



## CassMT

so what exactly has to change in riding technique for one of the new multicambers? subtle or drastic difference?

(while i wait for the answer imma go mow down some grandmas on the groomers, LOL)


----------



## Bullboy145

CassMT said:


> so what exactly has to change in riding technique for one of the new multicambers? subtle or drastic difference?
> 
> (while i wait for the answer imma go mow down some grandmas on the groomers, LOL)


I would assume that you would need to tone it down on the aggressiveness & erraticness of your movements, assuming multicamber=hybrid camber.


----------



## Donutz

I went from a traditional camber cheapie board to a Heritage. I found the turning characteristics of the Heritage to be unnervingly different. You get used to it fast enough, but first couple of times, wow!

Details here:

Never Summer Heritage Review


----------



## CassMT

yeh hybrid i meant, w/e...so, less erratic? i'll have to work on that, haha

liked that review donutz, good description


----------



## CassMT

sounds good...well i'm now thinking to demo that skunkape before the season's end, even if it on some spring conditions, could be fun

they have a 161 and a 165, from these comments im thinking to grab the 161..my everyday is a 163, sounds like shorter/grippier will be good

squirelly on the flats? good to know, theres quite a bit of cat track riding here


----------



## poutanen

Snowolf said:


> Actually, that comment was to flip some shit to Poutenan....


I've sensed you poking me today, but my resistance to respond is growing old master! :yahoo:

I have to say after riding a sort of RCR (or CCR actually with the nose being lifted), then getting back onto the cambered T7, a heavily cambered board is very competent, but the lifted nose one blows it out of the water on other design aspects. Overall it's a more enjoyable ride for the whole day.


----------



## BoardWalk

Rockpen said:


> Flat basing blacks. FTW! No that is not a joke, I like to flat base down black runs, the steeper the better. Within reason of course, some slopes are too steep for too long to flat base the whole thing.


I would really like to see that.


----------



## jdang307

Snowolf said:


> Still no change here in my opinion. Been over a year since this zombie thread reemerged from the grave and I love RCR even more. I personally have zero desire to ride traditional camber any more. I recently broke out the old Atomic Coldsmoke full camber and honestly, on the hard packed piste, both my Billy Goat and every Neversummer I have tested blow it away as far as carving and stability at speed. Then when I went into the tight trees with it, it was more work than fun to negotiate the tight trees. The Moguls that I can now run a zipper line in the same path as a skier with my RCR boards was just plain sucktastic on the Atomic. In both cases, I can ride it well, but its just not nearly as fun. Yes, I do know how to ride a cambered deck too. I learned on them and taught on them for about 5 years before switching the RCR. The only reason I am even keeping the thing is purely sentimental value; it and the Forum Destroyer were the boards I learned on.
> 
> The rocker-camber-rocker profile wins hands down to full camber for me. Traditional camber may be fine for cruising groomers with the old women, but when it gets technical, they are inferior in every way......:cheeky4:


You mean camber/rocker/camber ... right? :laugh:


----------



## Baigle

I have to say that I have not found a rocker board that keeps as good of an edge as a cambered board. 

I understand that if you spend tons of time in the park doing rails and small to medium jumps or if you ride pow all the time rocker would be pretty fun. 

But I live on the ice coast and mostly ride glades and cut between runs to ride the bush while randomly cruzing the hill doing small tricks. The rocker boards I have tried seem a little slow doing this and the tree slamming potential went up considerably. 

I currently ride a burton uninc and demoed about 10-15 boards and have not really found anything that I like more, but since the board is showing its age I am really searching for a replacement. 

Although as mentioned before the non cambered boards did not really do it for me, one board I did try that I found was pretty close and was excellent in pow was the burton easy living. 

Might have to get one just to use on pow days while still being able to ride the wind swept crust on the main runs that I normally encounter after leaving the trees.


----------



## BlueSkeleton

My last two boards have been the Capita DOA and TFA. They're both a type of camrock, and I like the shape a lot. They're good for jumps, bombing groomers, halfpipe (camber is excellent for carving and pop).
Flat/lifted contact points make the boards almost as catch free as my old Indoor Surival, which is a flat/rocker board, but they are definitely more springy and stable.

Pow float is a lot of marketing, imo. Unless you NEED a centered stance WHILE you're riding pow, you can set back your bindings, and any board will float better.

My jib skills are lacking, so in the park I tend to go for the biggest jumps I can handle, or the halfpipe, camber is best for this.

The only other time i'd want a rocker board is tight in the glades, because I tend to initiate turns by sort of nose-butter-pivoting into them, and a rocker board's tail will naturally move out of the way faster for turns. I think the length of the board (shorter) is more important for riding in tight vegetation.

DC also makes some camrock boards, and I think more companies will be producing boards with a mellowed camber soon.


----------



## Soul06

Reading the comments here I am considering giving hybrid another try. I didn't have the worst experience the first time I had one. My first board (purchased) was the 2010 Burton Flying V. I believe it was their first attempt at the profile. I think back to it to say it rode alright but then I was still a brand new rider and working heavily on my own skills. I do remember it getting very chattery while flatbasing and it taking more effort to keep it straight. But again I was still new to riding so that could be all my fault.
Eventually I got better but soon after jumped to a '10 Custom X......WHICH I LOVE!!!! Just bought the '13 Custom X to replace my old one. Sadly wont be able to ride it till next season but yall have me really thinking about picking up next years '14 Custom Flying-V. Especially since I hear they are switching it up a bit and attempting to make it a stiffer version then any of the other FVs.


----------



## spino

Snowolf said:


> Pretty sure Flying V is full rocker. There is a huge difference between a hybrid and a rocker. Sounds like some folks are basing their opinions on full rocker versus full camber.


i have never tried it so i do not know how it performs.
but the flying v is definitely a CRC hybrid, at least in its design.


----------



## Soul06

Snowolf said:


> Pretty sure Flying V is full rocker. There is a huge difference between a hybrid and a rocker. Sounds like some folks are basing their opinions on full rocker versus full camber.


Nah its a hybrid its designed to be camber-rocker-camber w/ lifted tips. Their full rocker is called V-Rocker


----------



## skip11

Flying V is rocker tip and tail, camber under the foot, and rocker in the middle (What soul06 said).


----------



## poutanen

skip11 said:


> Flying V is rocker tip and tail, camber under the foot, and rocker in the middle (What soul06 said).


I really wish they'd all stop the marketing crap and start calling a spade a spade.

There's pretty much 5 types of base profile (not including TBT)

1) Camber (including the flat base to cambered tips)

2) Flat

3) Rocker (including the flat base to rockered tips)

4) RCR (basically any of the camber with lifted tips models)

5) CRC (Flying-V, Mustache rocker, etc.)


----------



## blunted_nose

poutanen said:


> I really wish they'd all stop the marketing crap and start calling a spade a spade.
> 
> There's pretty much 5 types of base profile (not including TBT)
> 
> 1) Camber (including the flat base to cambered tips)
> 
> 2) Flat
> 
> 3) Rocker (including the flat base to rockered tips)
> 
> 4) RCR (basically any of the camber with lifted tips models)
> 
> 5) CRC (Flying-V, Mustache rocker, etc.)


Simplified: 

Camber - what men ride

Rocker - Gals, girls, beginners and people who like to replace stability and precision with a sloppy banana.


----------



## CassMT

CRC brings to mind a recurve bow....wonder if it is a similar principle at work


----------



## jdang307

poutanen said:


> I really wish they'd all stop the marketing crap and start calling a spade a spade.
> 
> There's pretty much 5 types of base profile (not including TBT)
> 
> 1) Camber (including the flat base to cambered tips)
> 
> 2) Flat
> 
> 3) Rocker (including the flat base to rockered tips)
> 
> 4) RCR (basically any of the camber with lifted tips models)
> 
> 5) CRC (Flying-V, Mustache rocker, etc.)


There are some with rocker in front and camber all the way back too, right?


----------



## poutanen

jdang307 said:


> There are some with rocker in front and camber all the way back too, right?


Yeah actually that's what my board is like, I consider that either part of the camber, or part of the RCR camp.


----------



## nataku

I think it depends on the conditions for me and my two boards, a camber profile (Arbor Element CX 2010) and a rocker profile (Arbor Coda 2012). I do mostly all mountain riding, and prefer the Element CX for most conditions since it is more damp at speed, while the Coda is more fun with some new snow on the ground.


----------



## PalmerFreak

I rode a full camber board my first 13 years and switched to a LibTech C2 profile board (T.Rice) a few weeks ago and it's awesome. I can't see myself going back to full camber unless the C2 is squirrelly at higher speeds that I only usually reach when I go out west. I live in the Midwest and the runs at my local hills aren't long or steep enough to get above 30-35MPH.


----------



## Efilnikufesin

blunted_nose said:


> Simplified:
> 
> Camber - what men ride
> 
> Rocker - Gals, girls, beginners and people who like to replace stability and precision with a sloppy banana.



And your riding TBT?


----------



## CheeseForSteeze

blunted_nose said:


> Simplified:
> 
> Camber - what men ride
> 
> Rocker - Gals, girls, beginners and people who like to replace stability and precision with a sloppy banana.


Some of the best, most powerful and precise boards I've ridden are some variation on reverse camber.


----------



## jdang307

Efilnikufesin said:


> And your riding TBT?


eunuch

...


----------



## redlude97

Efilnikufesin said:


> And your riding TBT?


lol yup. Funniest statement coming from this goober. TBT is great and I enjoy riding my bataleon occasionally but it is one of the most forgiving boards out there and is ideal for beginners but I can't charge nearly has hard on it as other CRC or RCR boards I have.


----------



## SilverSurfer

Snowolf said:


> These is nothing I can do on a traditional camber that I cannot do as well or in some cases better on a hybrid.


Two boards of similar flex, you should if you know how to load the tail, be able to ollie higher on a camber board. Simple physics.

Think of it this way 
Camber = spring
Rocker = worn out spring
CRC = mostly worn spring
RCR = closest to camber 

There is a reason almost every guy who is competing in Slopestyle or Half pipe still rides camber.


----------



## behi

SilverSurfer said:


> Two boards of similar flex, you should if you know how to load the tail, be able to ollie higher on a camber board. Simple physics.


Similar flex is a bad assumption. Snowboard construction has come quite a long way and flex can vary across the board length. I.e., my CRC board has a soft rocker section with much stiffer camber sections.


----------



## P.Swayze

Yes. 

Camber For Everything - Except Riding POW, which a Reverse Camber nose is all that is needed for pure awesomeness-


----------



## SilverSurfer

behi said:


> Similar flex is a bad assumption. Snowboard construction has come quite a long way and flex can vary across the board length. I.e., my CRC board has a soft rocker section with much stiffer camber sections.


This is not something new. This style of snowboard construction has been going on long before reverse camber boards. I have camber boards with soft tips and stiff middle sections and camber boards with soft mid section and stiff tips. These ideas were borrowed from ski companies pretty much from the begining of snowboard construction using CNC machines.


----------



## blunted_nose

Guys i was fucking kidding, geez. Im not even going to get in this debate because its so dry and over - debated. Hybrid is cool. camber is cool. Ride whatever makes you happy.


----------



## Rockpen

blunted_nose said:


> Guys i was fucking kidding, geez. Im not even going to get in this debate because its so dry and over - debated. Hybrid is cool. camber is cool. Ride whatever makes you happy.


Nailed it. Thread over. Next topic, I wish NS still made a full camber freeride deck. I may just settle for a Salomon Burner. I have a few friends riding them and I have a few days on one as well and they kind of feel like the old NS cambered boards. Damp, stable, go charge anything, a bit heavy but bombproof, confidence inspiring stability at any speed on any terrain and crushes chunder with a Cadilac like suspension feel.


----------



## scotty100

Rockpen said:


> Nailed it. Thread over. Next topic, I wish NS still made a full camber freeride deck. I may just settle for a Salomon Burner. I have a few friends riding them and I have a few days on one as well and they kind of feel like the old NS cambered boards. Damp, stable, go charge anything, a bit heavy but bombproof, confidence inspiring stability at any speed on any terrain and crushes chunder with a Cadilac like suspension feel.


I too would love to see NS develop new shapes as well as continue to tweak their CRC profile. Perhaps a couple of boards with a camrock profile would be cool...something new.


----------



## wrathfuldeity

ride whatever is best for the conditions and terrain.

But on Sunday, rode some great spring corn with the old 2005 cambered....It was sooo muuuch FUN. They had a banked boarder-x track set up and the cambered just tracked like it was on rails, popped through the turns and blasting the banks. :yahoo:


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## Balls of Steel

yes! I prefer normal ass traditional camber to any other kind. Provides the most stability solid edge hold and stomped landings on big park features. traditional camber fits my riding style best


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## flatlander

I like my capita sierrascope fk, but I miss the fluidity and stability of my old cambered board. I'm split 50/50 on whether I'll go with hybrid rocker/camber or toned down traditional camber on my next board.


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## jdang307

NS just posted this on their FB












> "Hybrid camber boards lack speed and can't hold an edge..."
> 
> Except for Never Summer boards with RC Technology and Vario Power Grip Sidecut!!!
> 
> Congratulations to Tristan Clegg! USASA National BoarderX Champion.


:laugh:

I think he's riding a Cobra but not sure.


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## mixie

jdang307 said:


> NS just posted this on their FB
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> :laugh:
> 
> I think he's riding a Cobra but not sure.


boarder cross champion on a Never Summer....

cue poutanen having a meltdown...ITS ALL OVER SELL YOUR IRONING BOARD. 

but really...it's 99% rider and 1% board so....camber fo eva...

oh wait. 

p.s. you know i love you poutanen...Im just mad cos...well my season is OVER...sigh.


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## poutanen

mixie said:


> cue poutanen having a meltdown...ITS ALL OVER SELL YOUR IRONING BOARD.


Looked at some of the results sheets and saw him racing 8 other people from Utah. That's a national championship?!? :dunno:

Camber FTW!!!


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## CassMT

winners of the Legendary Banked Slalom this year:

Pro Men

1. Seth Wescott 1:33.221
2. Graham Watanabe 1:33.801
3. Jason Robinson 1:34.045
4. Rob Fagan 1:34.318
5. Nate Holland 1:34.873
6. Travis Rice 1:35.231
7. Harry Kearney 1:35.285
8. Terje Haakonsen 1:35.662
9. Temple Cummins 1:36.183
10. Rob Kingwill 1:36.197

wonder how many were on traditional cambers(?), i have a feeling that Seth was...only one i'm sure _wasn't_ is Trice...i was there too, just wasn't paying attention to that


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## SinkHole

CassMT said:


> winners of the Legendary Banked Slalom this year:
> 
> Pro Men
> 
> 1. Seth Wescott 1:33.221
> 2. Graham Watanabe 1:33.801
> 3. Jason Robinson 1:34.045
> 4. Rob Fagan 1:34.318
> 5. Nate Holland 1:34.873
> 6. Travis Rice 1:35.231
> 7. Harry Kearney 1:35.285
> 8. Terje Haakonsen 1:35.662
> 9. Temple Cummins 1:36.183
> 10. Rob Kingwill 1:36.197
> 
> wonder how many were on traditional cambers(?), i have a feeling that Seth was...only one i'm sure _wasn't_ is Trice...i was there too, just wasn't paying attention to that


Bet JRob and Temple were both NOT on camber as well.


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## poutanen

CassMT said:


> winners of the Legendary Banked Slalom this year:


They bank the turns so non-camber guys can have a chance too!!!


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## CassMT

SinkHole said:


> Bet JRob and Temple were both NOT on camber as well.


probably true

but Terje? would surprise me if he was not


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## scottb7

I recently switched from very stiff 2010 ride dh camber to pretty soft 2012 rome gargage rocker.

The new board is much more surfy and playful. For just playing on the hill buttering, surface 180's 360's, tail press. Stuff just playing on the hill softer rocker board much better.

For carving it is worse. For boxes and rails it is better, but for landing jumps it is worse only in that after you land carving away at high speed (coming down off jump) is worse. Worse, only in that you are moving quick and trying to regain control (slow down). As I get used to new board perhaps I will improve. Plus where I am at minnesota buck hill there is usually not all that much room before you run into someone or something.

Mainly my point is this: I think most of concerns about rocker boards vs camber is not so much due to shape as it is to softness of the board. I can't be sure, but I think if my rocker board was stiffer the edges would bite in more when carving. So it is not so much the camber/rocker that makes a difference.


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## blunted_nose

To people who complain about camber and lack of float. Shut up, if you go fast enough any, and i mean any, board will float.


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## CassMT

it would be interesting to be used to both, do a big pow run, then switch boards and do the same exact run


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## scottb7

It is not that interesting. the camber stiffer board is better for carving...end of report. Better: more locked in, can generally go faster with more control.


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## redlude97

blunted_nose said:


> To people who complain about camber and lack of float. Shut up, if you go fast enough any, and i mean any, board will float.


WTF do you know, just a couple months ago you had barely ridden any pow, let alone any big lines. Many of us are well aware of how a cambered board rides in pow. I did it for almost a decade.


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## SinkHole

....annnnnnnnd get the marshmallows, cause damn!


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## CassMT

im riding the softest camber ive ever been on, *lovin it for everything*, including haulin azzz, crud, pow, w/e

theoretically makes sense that a rocker in pow would not 'drag', but we must be talking a pretty damn subtle difference, Princess and the Pea type subtle


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## SinkHole

What is this soft cambered board you doth speak of?


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## CassMT

K2 Titan 163, its a big noodle compared to my last board, i think its actually a few years old, got it new/old just maybe 2 months ago...sold off a 181 i had for haulin ass on the groomers cuz this one is just as fast, i can hit that 'wind barrier' ppl mentioned on the other thread no prob


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## redlude97

No way it was softer than the cambered rome artifacts. Those were f'n sketchy of any booters


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## flatlander

I think about it like this.... My line down the hill is a groove, and it's my job to keep my body weight balanced over the groove. Cambered boards naturally lend themselves to a tight groove, and my body is forced to make adjustments that keep my balance centered over this groove. Rockered boards naturally allow a looser groove, and my body is forced to make adjustments that keep the groove tighter.

In a situation where I'm hitting something off balance and/or making a sloppy landing, the rockered board is a double edged sword that 1) can make the takeoff a little sloppier if I'm not managing a tight groove on my own, 2) can allow a sloppier landing to end well because I don't have to work as hard to keep my body balanced over the naturally tight groove of a cambered board. 

On the other hand, a cambered board will 1) punish me for a sloppy takeoff if I can't keep my body aligned to the tighter groove...but keeping the groove tight happens more naturally and 2) punish me for a sloppy landing with edge catch.

A couple of other differences:


my rockered board doesn't treat me very nice if my weight is too far back on the tail during the landing. in the same situation, my cambered board forces the nose of my board to the ground and saves me sometimes..sort of like an ollie in reverse.
float in pow? nah, not really. my boards are both medium-stiff, and I don't notice this at all. maybe if you had a couple of limp noodle boards, I can imagine a cambered limp noodle board would want to flex in the center and nose-dive into the pow....while a rockered noodle might maintain float.
Carving is so much more fluid and effortless with camber. That's not to say I can't carve a fluid line with my rockered board if I focus, but it definitely washes out sometimes when I'd rather be zagging.
All that to say, it's really just preference. I like the feeling of both styles. On my rockered board, I really enjoy hard-charging nasty terrain like rough/mogully/chundered pow....whereas my cambered board sometimes makes me feel like I'm about to faceplant if i get too loose. On my cambered board, there's no rockered equivalent to carving a perfect arc across pristine pow or corduroy. I dream of the day I get to try hybrid camber board and leave the traditions behind...but I really doubt I'll stop liking both until maybe I'm a better snowboarder than I'm ever likely to become.

edit: what a bunch of nonsense, lol


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## scottb7

flatlander, that was a good post!


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## onthefence

CassMT said:


> i can hit that 'wind barrier' ppl mentioned on the other thread


Whats this?


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## poutanen

onthefence said:


> Whats this?


Not really a barrier, but the point at which you can't go any faster downhill because the drag is equal to gravity. You stop accelerating...


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## CassMT

next year i'm wearing my union suit on the outside, LOL


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## Deacon

CassMT said:


> next year i'm wearing my union suit on the outside, LOL


And next spring Union will have a caption contest on a photo of you....
:laugh:


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## CassMT

it's the* new style*, i'm_ fashion-forward_ yo










(can you tell ive got some free time this mornin, LOL)


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## Deacon

CassMT said:


> it's the* new style*, i'm_ fashion-forward_ yo
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (can you tell ive got some free time this mornin, LOL)


Hey, I really dig that parquet topsheet!
:bowdown:


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## CassMT

yeh, and i think my new sidecut design would be_ better than camber or hybrid_, *whatchout y'all*


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## honeycomb

Is it TBT with magnetraction? Other than that I'm not interested


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## --bigtime--

honeycomb said:


> Is it TBT with magnetraction? Other than that I'm not interested


Damn Bataleon Fanboy over here. Jeez. Kid probably even rides with sunglasses he gets for free.


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## Rockpen

Had an interesting discussion today at my LBS regarding hybrid vs camber. It seems all of us were in favor of cambered boards. We all agreed that rocker and hybrid boards have their place (park or pow) but for aggressive hard charging nothing beats camber. The shop owner said most boards will most likely return to camber next year and that this hybrid nonsense is just marketing hype (his words). But I also sort of agree with him. I'm looking for a new freeride board and for the first time in 10+ years it WILL NOT be a Never Summer. We all agreed that the older NS boards were built for experianced and aggressive riders and the newer models are better suited for begginers. Anyways, was checking out the Kessler Ride but damm!$$$$$$


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## poutanen

Rockpen said:


> Had an interesting discussion today at my LBS regarding hybrid vs camber. It seems all of us were in favor of cambered boards. We all agreed that rocker and hybrid boards have their place (park or pow) but for *aggressive hard charging nothing beats camber*.


A couple years after the first posts in this thread, I still agree in general. The only "hybrid" shape I like is camber with lifted tips, or early rise in the nose.

Just as an aside, there's more to the board specs than camber that determine how it will rail a turn. Sidecut radius, effective edge, flex profile, and camber profile all play a pretty equal part in that equation.

Everyone I know who's owned a Kessler Ride thinks they're the shit. It does hurt paying a premium for a board, but if it's significantly better than what you can find in the sub-$750 range at what you want it to do, then why not? :dunno: There are worse things to waste money on...


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## Rockpen

poutanen said:


> There are worse things to waste money on...


Like a $6,000 carbon fiber "enduro" MTB? :blink: 

I agree the price is high considering it doesn't split into two pieces. A friend of mine got an amazing deal on one and he seems to love it. I can't even come close to catching him, forget it. He was keeping up with his girlfriend (who races) on skies, first time that's ever happened. But still, I REALLY, REALLY want that MTB so I have to save where I can. When I asked him if it was better than his Salomon Burner his reply was "not if I had to pay full price". Even though he was faster he said it was a better board but only by a very slight margin. 
I think that slight margin was the extra cm in length and a new base WITH wax.


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## poutanen

Rockpen said:


> Like a $6,000 carbon fiber "enduro" MTB? :blink:


Just buy last years MTB and with the money you'll save you could buy the Kessler outright!?! 

I've never understood people that spend more than $1500 on a bike, but they're the same people that don't understand me spending $1300 on a board. 

All in all, worse things to spend your money on, in no particular order would be: heroin, hookers, gambling.


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## CassMT

i still prefer camber, and union suits


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## tonicusa

Camber and original coke. Crack sucks.


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## CheoSamad

Camber is just tried and true, Rocker is a bit more playful for jibs but I hate it for jumps, Definitely not a fan of hybrid.


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## TUTRider

*My Take*



Rockpen said:


> Had an interesting discussion today at my LBS regarding hybrid vs camber. It seems all of us were in favor of cambered boards. We all agreed that rocker and hybrid boards have their place (park or pow) but for aggressive hard charging nothing beats camber. The shop owner said most boards will most likely return to camber next year and that this hybrid nonsense is just marketing hype (his words). But I also sort of agree with him. I'm looking for a new freeride board and for the first time in 10+ years it WILL NOT be a Never Summer. We all agreed that the older NS boards were built for experianced and aggressive riders and the newer models are better suited for begginers. Anyways, was checking out the Kessler Ride but damm!$$$$$$


Well, this is only coming from a "beginner" as I believe you called NS riders but bear with me. In the past two years I have been on the podium at the USASA National Championships for Boarder-cross two times, once placing 3rd in 2012 and this most current season 1st in arguably one of the most competitive age groups in USASA. Both times I was on a Never Summer R/C board and both times i was competing against, and beating, riders on Oxess, Apex, Donnek, and yes, even Kessler.

In free-riding terms I am riding some of the roughest mountains in the US, including Jackson Hole, Wy 8-10 days a year and 60-70 days a year I am bombing Snowbird, Utah. When I ride either of these mountains or anywhere else that I want free-ride performance...I always grab a NS.


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## tonicusa

And....... schwaaak. A perfectly executed bitch slap. 


But nonetheless you would have placed on anything you rode probably. There is some correlation between Never Summers move to RC and a whole new demographic of riders they pulled in. And some old schoolers they lost just because some guys will only ride camber.


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## VanillaEps

poutanen said:


> Just buy last years MTB and with the money you'll save you could buy the Kessler outright!?!
> 
> I've never understood people that spend more than $1500 on a bike, but they're the same people that don't understand me spending $1300 on a board.
> 
> All in all, worse things to spend your money on, in no particular order would be: heroin, hookers, gambling.


Coming from someone that has paid $6k on a mountain bike, I would actually understand paying premium for a snowboard.


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