# Too much heel side sliding.



## WasabiCanuck (Apr 29, 2015)

Bro, you need to really squat down when you are on a heel side carve. Like low enough you could almost grab your board between your feet. In addition to messing with your stance width and angle, also crank your high backs forward a bit. This will help with heel side carves. 

Check out this Snowboard Addiction vid on carving. Very helpful I think.


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## AmberLamps (Feb 8, 2015)

I doubt its your stance, I bet its your technique, post a video of yourselfe riding, or do anlittle video watching on YouTube and learn how to carve.


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## WasabiCanuck (Apr 29, 2015)

I'm sorry, I think I misunderstood your post. Are you saying that you favor your heel edge? If that is the case, you just need to ride more. Stay on mellow slopes and really work on your turns. Everyone favors their heel edge at first. Really stick your hips out on your toe side carves, that will stack your weight over the toe edge of the board. 

With more time, it will be very natural and relaxed. For now just stick to mellow runs and slower speeds until you get your turns more dialed.


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## WasabiCanuck (Apr 29, 2015)

AmberLamps said:


> I doubt its your stance, I bet its your technique, post a video of yourselfe riding, or do anlittle video watching on YouTube and learn how to carve.


Exactly, pick a stance that is comfortable in a squated position. For me it is 15/-15. Then just work on your technique. Filming is a great idea.


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## strycker (Jan 28, 2015)

WasabiCanuck said:


> Exactly, pick a stance that is comfortable in a squated position. For me it is 15/-15. Then just work on your technique. Filming is a great idea.


If I'm riding that flatter green section at our hill, I don't have much trouble at all transitioning from heel to toe side edge and getting a decent turn in under control. The moment I get on a little steeper slope, it all goes to hell. If I get speed built up heading straight downhill during the carve and I try to get to the toe edge, it typically ends in a spectacular crash for the chair lift viewers. But if I try to stay in control, I find myself slowing on the heel side. In those icy conditions, I can just hear it eating my board. Is what my base looks like normal for harsh conditions? I'll re-wax it before next time for sure. I also have rust spots on the rails already and I always dry it off.


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## WasabiCanuck (Apr 29, 2015)

strycker said:


> If I'm riding that flatter green section at our hill, I don't have much trouble at all transitioning from heel to toe side edge and getting a decent turn in under control. The moment I get on a little steeper slope, it all goes to hell. If I get speed built up heading straight downhill during the carve and I try to get to the toe edge, it typically ends in a spectacular crash for the chair lift viewers. But if I try to stay in control, I find myself slowing on the heel side. In those icy conditions, I can just hear it eating my board. Is what my base looks like normal for harsh conditions? I'll re-wax it before next time for sure. I also have rust spots on the rails already and I always dry it off.


Are you carving the greens? If not, work on that. If you are, try going faster. Like don't brake at all for the whole run. Get used to speed and carving.

Not sure why your base is so messed up. If you are on your heel edge ALOT all the wax will be pulled off that side quickly. As for your edges, do you put your board in a bag at the end of the day? I used to get rust when I put my board in bag. You can get rust remover that works pretty well. It looks like an eraser.


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## speedjason (May 2, 2013)

Can't really tell without seeing how you ride, bro.


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## strycker (Jan 28, 2015)

Yes I transport the board in a bag in the car. Usually dry it off before hand but there is residual snow on and around the bindings. I have some rust remover at home from some other projects. I'll try it out. That heel side is the worst it's looked after one session. And I rode it a lot before I waxed it at all. I'll just re-apply and see how it turns out. As for filming myself, not quite sure how to get that done.


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## Shred&Butter (Sep 15, 2012)

Those edges! It won't be the root of your problem but I'd definitely file that rust off :grin:

Are you sure you're not too heavy for your board? It's a tell tale sign for me that I'm too heavy for a board / it's too flexible if I tend to skid very easily when I try to heel side turn. If you're sure about your technique (keeping weight centered etc.) then it could be that the board is flexing too easily when your weight is on your heels. This is especially noticeable on icy packed groom runs (that horrid noise).


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## strycker (Jan 28, 2015)

Shred&Butter said:


> Those edges! It won't be the root of your problem but I'd definitely file that rust off :grin:
> 
> Are you sure you're not too heavy for your board? It's a tell tale sign for me that I'm too heavy for a board / it's too flexible if I tend to skid very easily when I try to heel side turn. If you're sure about your technique (keeping weight centered etc.) then it could be that the board is flexing too easily when your weight is on your heels. This is especially noticeable on icy packed groom runs (that horrid noise).


It's a 158W Rome Tour board. I'm 6'1 & 172 lbs. I've got size 12 boots. I'm going to slide my bindings back as I think my toe was dragging on my back foot possibly a smidge. I'm just trying to figure out what feels right too I guess. Cheapo board I got end of year sale to learn on basically so I didn't have to rent different stuff all the time. I did ride my Burton Flying V I got used on here and I loved the feel of that one. I seemed to control it better than the Rome somewhat. It's a 159W (if not its 158W) I think. I'd have to double check that. I do like my highbacks fully forward. It feels much more stable in my opinion when I'm riding. It's been upright before and I couldn't keep stable. Sometimes they pop up by accident and I don't notice on the back foot.


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## WasabiCanuck (Apr 29, 2015)

strycker said:


> Yes I transport the board in a bag in the car. Usually dry it off before hand but there is residual snow on and around the bindings.


Stop putting it in a bag unless you absolutely have to. Let that bitch air dry. Guys think they are protecting the board by putting it in a bag but it is horrible for rust. Don't put it in a bag until it is *completely* dry. It is good you wipe it down and try to dry it, but it is impossible to get it totally dry unless you take your bindings off and keep them away from the board. A lot of snow packs in and under the bindings that can't just be wiped off.

I stopped putting mine in a bag and viola, no more rust. I had to put mine in a bag back in the day because I was jumping straight on to a bullet train in Japan to my place in Tokyo after 2 days of riding. I should have taken it out when I got home but I didn't realize how easily it would rust in my bag.


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## trapper (Jan 15, 2013)

I honestly think you just need to ride more on terrain you're comfortable with and get more comfortable with speed. It sounds to me like you're doing a lot of speed checking because you simply aren't comfortable enough to ride fast yet. I'm no expert but that's my guess (without videos).

If you're having trouble heelside on steeps then you need to do as someone mentioned and get into a more athletic stance. You have to be aggressive on steeper terrain if you want to hold a carve.


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## virtu (Jan 22, 2016)

Shred&Butter said:


> Those edges! It won't be the root of your problem but I'd definitely file that rust off :grin:
> 
> Are you sure you're not too heavy for your board? It's a tell tale sign for me that I'm too heavy for a board / it's too flexible if I tend to skid very easily when I try to heel side turn. If you're sure about your technique (keeping weight centered etc.) then it could be that the board is flexing too easily when your weight is on your heels. This is especially noticeable on icy packed groom runs (that horrid noise).


Just in case, did you already tried to put a little bit more weight on your front foot when doing your heel side turn? If the board is a little bit small, moving a little bit the balance to the front can avoid the board skid.

Also doing this will improve your technique of controlling your balance and edges.


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## ridinbend (Aug 2, 2012)

You've destroyed the base on that heel side, I've never seen that..looks like an unbalanced tire ware. Either you ride solely in the heel side all the way down or that's defective. You wore through the colors in the base structure.

Have you ever put wax on that thing?


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## Argo (Feb 25, 2010)

You're not carving, you're trying to do basic turns. You're a beginner riding falling leaf on your heel side. That's what your board says to us.

Get an instructor, learn to ride properly on this board, buy a new one when you learn.


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## strycker (Jan 28, 2015)

ridinbend said:


> You've destroyed the base on that heel side, I've never seen that..looks like an unbalanced tire ware. Either you ride solely in the heel side all the way down or that's defective. You wore through the colors in the base structure.
> 
> Have you ever put wax on that thing?


Yes it's been waxed. I don't think you realize the ice that I was riding on. I know I favor heel side more as a beginner, but I've not been doing the falling leaf pattern. I actually do transition to toe side. On the steeper green I end up falling leaf a few times. I've noticed when I wax the board the base colors come out some as the wax is removed. I've noticed tinting on the wax itself. I'm using the Dakine Supertune kit and iron. I watch the professional on Youtube and follow all the instructions he does. The base looked fine after waxing last time. I'll re-wax it and see if it comes back or not.

This guide is what I was going by:


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## speedjason (May 2, 2013)

Was the wax smoking when you did it?
No way the color would come out when you wax.


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## speedjason (May 2, 2013)

WasabiCanuck said:


> Stop putting it in a bag unless you absolutely have to. Let that bitch air dry. Guys think they are protecting the board by putting it in a bag but it is horrible for rust. Don't put it in a bag until it is *completely* dry. It is good you wipe it down and try to dry it, but it is impossible to get it totally dry unless you take your bindings off and keep them away from the board. A lot of snow packs in and under the bindings that can't just be wiped off.
> 
> I stopped putting mine in a bag and viola, no more rust. I had to put mine in a bag back in the day because I was jumping straight on to a bullet train in Japan to my place in Tokyo after 2 days of riding. I should have taken it out when I got home but I didn't realize how easily it would rust in my bag.


You can put it a bag for transportation. Just take it out when you get home and lay it against a wall to dry.


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## strycker (Jan 28, 2015)

speedjason said:


> Was the wax smoking when you did it?
> No way the color would come out when you wax.


No, no smoking. I use this stuff.

Choad Cheese Snowboard and Ski Wax

I set the iron to 120, melted and dripped all over board, spread out using iron. I made sure to get the edges really well too. The graphics on the bottom of the board have edges to them. If you run your fingernail lengthwise along the board you can feel them. Even when waxing I can feel them. Always been that way. I let the board sit for 20-30 mins and then scrape. I put too much wax on the first time and it was hard to get it all off. Maybe I'll just let the snow (or ice) remove it next time.


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## SGboarder (Jun 24, 2012)

strycker said:


> No, no smoking. I use this stuff.
> 
> Choad Cheese Snowboard and Ski Wax
> 
> I set the iron to 120, melted and dripped all over board, spread out using iron. I made sure to get the edges really well too. The graphics on the bottom of the board have edges to them. If you run your fingernail lengthwise along the board you can feel them. Even when waxing I can feel them. Always been that way. I let the board sit for 20-30 mins and then scrape. I put too much wax on the first time and it was hard to get it all off. Maybe I'll just let the snow (or ice) remove it next time.


Are you using a metal scraper or is your scraper extremely sharp?


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## deagol (Mar 26, 2014)

Lots of good advice here. One thing to add RE heelside edge wear: the "hockey stop" is hard on the heelside edge.. 

there are more graceful ways to scrub speed that don't wear your edges as much. Also falling leaf is, IMO, a bad habit to get into. I see way too many riders take that "style" onto steeper runs and ruin the snow (not to mention their heelside edges) by sliding down that way, scraping the snow off down to ice, when they should learn how to carve (not slide) on both edges on less steep runs first.


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## jtg (Dec 11, 2012)

The base is fine. That's wax film. Does it come off when you scratch it, showing the true base color underneath? If yes, then there is no damage.


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## strycker (Jan 28, 2015)

SGboarder said:


> Are you using a metal scraper or is your scraper extremely sharp?


I've been using the Dakine scraper that came with it. It's the plastic type wide one. The kit came with a metal one as well, but skinnier.


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## strycker (Jan 28, 2015)

jtg said:


> The base is fine. That's wax film. Does it come off when you scratch it, showing the true base color underneath? If yes, then there is no damage.


Not sure. I'll check it out when I get home. I waxed the board before I rode it this last time. The conditions were loose granular and the hard pack was solid ice basically. It sounded awful riding on it and the board chattered a ton. I was riding at night so the slopes were pretty bad from being ridden all day. Some places had no loose anything on the ice.


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## SGboarder (Jun 24, 2012)

jtg said:


> The base is fine. That's wax film. Does it come off when you scratch it, showing the true base color underneath? If yes, then there is no damage.


The guy said this before:


strycker said:


> I've noticed when I wax the board the base colors come out some as the wax is removed. I've noticed tinting on the wax itself.


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## timmytard (Mar 19, 2009)

trapper said:


> I honestly think you just need to ride more on terrain you're comfortable with and get more comfortable with speed. It sounds to me like you're doing a lot of speed checking because you simply aren't comfortable enough to ride fast yet. I'm no expert but that's my guess (without videos).
> 
> If you're having trouble heelside on steeps then you need to do as someone mentioned and get into a more athletic stance. You have to be aggressive on steeper terrain if you want to hold a carve.


Ride more & learn how to toe side carve properly.

It looks like you have never been on your toeside edge.

You need to bite the bullet & spend a day dialing in that toeside carve.

Sure you're gonna eat shit a few times probably?

But you have too, to do it.


TT


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## strycker (Jan 28, 2015)

timmytard said:


> Ride more & learn how to toe side carve properly.
> 
> It looks like you have never been on your toeside edge.
> 
> ...


I think the biggest problem is our tiny slopes. It's usually busy and icy. There's only realyl one trail I'm comfortable on to try out the back and forth heel to toe and I have been doing that. But groups of 10-15 people go down that trail together and start and stop almost all the time. So if I get a rhythm going it's quickly squashed by people sitting in the trail or crossing you up at high speeds. I wish I was out there the greens are 500-1000 feet wide, not 100. Then I wouldn't be so timid on not crashing into 10 people all at once. I've had ski patrol following little kids down the trail and essentially block me out from passing too. It's frustrating trying to learn on the crap we have. And I'm not afraid to crash. Done that plenty. I've gotten good at toe side up hill stops.


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## Jcb890 (Dec 12, 2014)

strycker said:


> I think the biggest problem is our tiny slopes. It's usually busy and icy. There's only realyl one trail I'm comfortable on to try out the back and forth heel to toe and I have been doing that. But groups of 10-15 people go down that trail together and start and stop almost all the time. So if I get a rhythm going it's quickly squashed by people sitting in the trail or crossing you up at high speeds. I wish I was out there the greens are 500-1000 feet wide, not 100. Then I wouldn't be so timid on not crashing into 10 people all at once. I've had ski patrol following little kids down the trail and essentially block me out from passing too. It's frustrating trying to learn on the crap we have. And I'm not afraid to crash. Done that plenty. I've gotten good at toe side up hill stops.


Sounds like a similar spot to my wife in her learning. She is far more comfortable turning and stopping on her heel than her toe. She is able to turn both ways on easy slopes at our local mountain, but she is also worried by large crowds and having to go around people. Unfortunately, there is almost no way around this as the easiest trails are always the most crowded. If you can, go during more of their off hours when it is less busy in general.

How are you going to fix your problem? Practice. You just need a lot more practice, as does my wife. Its the only way to get better. Just keep going and keep trying. Eventually you'll get it. Your stance isn't going to make a huge difference if you are comfortable with the way it is now.

As for your board... if that's not wax build-up and not properly scraped off, then I'm not sure.


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## WasabiCanuck (Apr 29, 2015)

I used to hate crowds when I was learning. I would get freaked out when people passed me and hated trying to pass people. Kicking Horse has a horrible cat track when you first get off the gondola. Super crowded and narrow, barely 20ft wide. Double Black diamond to the right and wall to the left. I hated that part of the run. Not fun when learning.

As you improve, you will get better edge control and feel much more comfortable with crowds. Crowds don't bother me at all any more, I just cruise around slow people and give fast people room to pass. Like everyone said, practice.


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## Jcb890 (Dec 12, 2014)

WasabiCanuck said:


> I used to hate crowds when I was learning. I would get freaked out when people passed me and hated trying to pass people. Kicking Horse has a horrible cat track when you first get off the gondola. Super crowded and narrow, barely 20ft wide. Double Black diamond to the right and wall to the left. I hated that part of the run. Not fun when learning.
> 
> As you improve, you will get better edge control and feel much more comfortable with crowds. Crowds don't bother me at all any more, I just cruise around slow people and give fast people room to pass. Like everyone said, practice.


I remember the first couple times out my wife lamenting "_I just want to be good!!_" and I just kept trying to tell her that you need practice to get better, it just doesn't magically happen.


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## strycker (Jan 28, 2015)

Well the base is still flat at those spots. It's not like it's gouged out or splintered or anything. I will re-wax and see what it looks like. 

As for crowds, I've gotten better at navigating through them, but anticipating their next move still is troublesome. I've not hit or taken down anyone yet (knock on wood.) But that trail is the only one except the bunny hill which is so small you spend more time on the lift than on the board. But it might be a better place to practice when not as busy. Believe me, I'd rather be there right now when no one else is, but I do have to work unfortunately. :frown:


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## Jcb890 (Dec 12, 2014)

strycker said:


> Well the base is still flat at those spots. It's not like it's gouged out or splintered or anything. I will re-wax and see what it looks like.
> 
> As for crowds, I've gotten better at navigating through them, but anticipating their next move still is troublesome. I've not hit or taken down anyone yet (knock on wood.) But that trail is the only one except the bunny hill which is so small you spend more time on the lift than on the board. But it might be a better place to practice when not as busy. Believe me, I'd rather be there right now when no one else is, but I do have to work unfortunately. :frown:


It's probably fine to learn on and shouldn't really hold you back in that aspect. Don't worry about it too much for now.

Luckily our local mountain is open at nights so we can go for a couple hours before they close when it is usually least busy. Trust me, nobody likes riding when there's crowds:wink:


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## strycker (Jan 28, 2015)

Jcb890 said:


> It's probably fine to learn on and shouldn't really hold you back in that aspect. Don't worry about it too much for now.
> 
> Luckily our local mountain is open at nights so we can go for a couple hours before they close when it is usually least busy. Trust me, nobody likes riding when there's crowds:wink:


Yeah eventually I'll take it into the park and trash it there I'm sure. Our mountain is open till 10 PM so I usually get out there Friday nights. Going to try mid week instead for less people.


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## Jcb890 (Dec 12, 2014)

strycker said:


> Yeah eventually I'll take it into the park and trash it there I'm sure. Our mountain is open till 10 PM so I usually get out there Friday nights. Going to try mid week instead for less people.


Our mountain is also open until 10 PM. My recommendation would be going during the week sometime after 7 PM. By 8 or 8:30 our local mountain gets much less crowded. If you have a pass there, it doesn't matter if you only get there a couple hours before they close up.


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## strycker (Jan 28, 2015)

Jcb890 said:


> Our mountain is also open until 10 PM. My recommendation would be going during the week sometime after 7 PM. By 8 or 8:30 our local mountain gets much less crowded. If you have a pass there, it doesn't matter if you only get there a couple hours before they close up.


I have a discount pass. For night lifts 5PM to 10PM its $27.50. It's just so iced up by then it sucks. I usually spent about 4 hrs when there.


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## Jcb890 (Dec 12, 2014)

strycker said:


> I have a discount pass. For night lifts 5PM to 10PM its $27.50. It's just so iced up by then it sucks. I usually spent about 4 hrs when there.


Just think of it this way - if you learn on this crap, you'll be good to go when you get some better snow to use those skills on.

Also, it is good to get some practice in with those adverse conditions since you aren't always going to get the best conditions each time out, no matter where you're riding.


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## XxGoGirlxX (Jan 15, 2016)

Jcb890 said:


> Just think of it this way - if you learn on this crap, you'll be good to go when you get some better snow to use those skills on.
> 
> Also, it is good to get some practice in with those adverse conditions since you aren't always going to get the best conditions each time out, no matter where you're riding.


 +1 
Yep just go go go. Whether it sucks or rocks is up to your attitude and will push you to get better.


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## strycker (Jan 28, 2015)

XxGoGirlxX said:


> +1
> Yep just go go go. Whether it sucks or rocks is up to your attitude and will push you to get better.


Believe me, I have a blast every time I'm out on the board or I would have given up last year. I made it down the hill without crashing my first time out this season so that was huge for me. Subsequently I made more successful trips downhill, then started to try getting better at linked turns and little by little more speed. But it's extremely hard to learn when the icy surface has no snow in it and the granular is all pushed out to the sides already when you get there. But I'll keep at it since there's no other choice in the matter. Wishing for better conditions though too at the same time.


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## WasabiCanuck (Apr 29, 2015)

strycker said:


> Believe me, I have a blast every time I'm out on the board or I would have given up last year. I made it down the hill without crashing my first time out this season so that was huge for me. Subsequently I made more successful trips downhill, then started to try getting better at linked turns and little by little more speed. But it's extremely hard to learn when the icy surface has no snow in it and the granular is all pushed out to the sides already when you get there. But I'll keep at it since there's no other choice in the matter. Wishing for better conditions though too at the same time.


Haha, I remember when I was just happy getting down without crashing. Brings back good memories. Ice does suck. Sometimes I feel like a noob riding on ice, turns just feel wrong. Your stoke will keep you going and you will get better. Universal law of snowboarding - you get better the more you go. Not everyone gets better at the same rate, but everyone gets better.

Get a lesson. Only $40 or $50 and it can't hurt. I learned a ton of good drills to practice from the one lesson I had, in Australia of all places  haha.


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## SkullAndXbones (Feb 24, 2014)

i agree with what some other people have said, just ride more and eventually you'll get comfortable on both edges


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## XxGoGirlxX (Jan 15, 2016)

strycker said:


> But it's extremely hard to learn when the icy surface has no snow in it and the granular is all pushed out to the sides already when you get there. But I'll keep at it since there's no other choice in the matter. Wishing for better conditions though too at the same time.


See if u can challenge yourself to stay in those narrow bands of granular on the sides (if you can do so safely) :smile:


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## poutanen (Dec 22, 2011)

Have you taken some lessons yet?


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## strycker (Jan 28, 2015)

XxGoGirlxX said:


> See if u can challenge yourself to stay in those narrow bands of granular on the sides (if you can do so safely) :smile:


I was in those on the uphill banked area on the slower trail and it was like riding on pillows. So much it was like mush. But then again that area was like 10-20' wide so not much maneuverability.



poutanen said:


> Have you taken some lessons yet?


I had a beginner's lesson before a big trip out west to Breck last year. Since then it's just been me, YouTube videos and the forum and a little luck. I'll try to see if I can't get a lesson sometime this year if we get some decent snow on the slopes.


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## poutanen (Dec 22, 2011)

strycker said:


> I had a beginner's lesson before a big trip out west to Breck last year. Since then it's just been me, YouTube videos and the forum and a little luck. I'll try to see if I can't get a lesson sometime this year if we get some decent snow on the slopes.


I strongly suggest a couple lessons each year, for ANY level rider. My wife found that she'd hit a plateau in her riding, and we'd pay for a lesson then she'd jump to the next level.

We just recently did 6 days of riding at Kicking Horse, with intense lessons for 4 of those days (with 114 other ski patrollers and family). First time I've taken real lessons since 1992. We can all use a little help with our riding from time to time! >


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## WasabiCanuck (Apr 29, 2015)

poutanen said:


> I strongly suggest a couple lessons each year, for ANY level rider. My wife found that she'd hit a plateau in her riding, and we'd pay for a lesson then she'd jump to the next level.
> 
> We just recently did 6 days of riding at Kicking Horse, with intense lessons for 4 of those days (with 114 other ski patrollers and family). First time I've taken real lessons since 1992. We can all use a little help with our riding from time to time! >


Solid advice for all of us. :thumbsup:

Even pros have coaches.


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## strycker (Jan 28, 2015)

jtg said:


> The base is fine. That's wax film. Does it come off when you scratch it, showing the true base color underneath? If yes, then there is no damage.


Fortunately this is exactly what it was. Does that mean I didn't scrape enough off? I thought I got all of it off pretty well. It hasn't happened before and is why I was concerned.


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## Rogue (Nov 29, 2014)

Why would only the heel side have wax film......? The paint looks completely gone


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## strycker (Jan 28, 2015)

Rogue said:


> Why would only the heel side have wax film......? The paint looks completely gone


I rode the edge a lot on the ice. It's definitely wax though as I took a scotchbrite pad to it and it went away and still color below it. Going to rewax and scrape. Should the wax still be semi warm when removed or cold. I had a heck of a time scraping completely cooled off.


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## bksdds (Jul 2, 2015)

strycker said:


> I rode the edge a lot on the ice. It's definitely wax though as I took a scotchbrite pad to it and it went away and still color below it. Going to rewax and scrape. Should the wax still be semi warm when removed or cold. I had a heck of a time scraping completely cooled off.


I'd start with what the wax manufacturer recommends.


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## Rogue (Nov 29, 2014)

strycker said:


> I rode the edge a lot on the ice. It's definitely wax though as I took a scotchbrite pad to it and it went away and still color below it. Going to rewax and scrape. Should the wax still be semi warm when removed or cold. I had a heck of a time scraping completely cooled off.


Post a finished pic when you're done bc it's tripping me out lol


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## speedjason (May 2, 2013)

It's kind weird they printed the graphics on the top side of the base. Usually they do the graphics under the transparent base.


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## bksdds (Jul 2, 2015)

strycker said:


> I rode the edge a lot on the ice. It's definitely wax though as I took a scotchbrite pad to it and it went away and still color below it. Going to rewax and scrape. Should the wax still be semi warm when removed or cold. I had a heck of a time scraping completely cooled off.


Did you fix that crappy wax job yet?


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## bksdds (Jul 2, 2015)

strycker said:


> So I've been getting a little better each time I'm out and seem to be progressing. That said I have about 10-12 days total on the board at about 3-4 hours per session. I've been playing with stance lately and have gone from the 12/-12 to 15/-9 and I think the last was 15/-7. I still have a lot of trouble carving downhill without getting on the heel side edge and braking. Keep in mind the slopes have been pretty icy this year on the east coast as well. I waxed the board last weekend took it out this past Saturday night and was sliding basically on icy loose granular conditions. Pics of the board are attached. This is my heel side edge. Should I attempt to move to a rear foot forward stance instead of duck to see if control is better and minimize my heel side time? Any other suggestions that I could try?


Hey poop! Where did you go?


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## strycker (Jan 28, 2015)

bksdds said:


> Hey poop! Where did you go?


I was out riding, not on here. lol. Here's the new wax job. Pretty sure I didn't get it all off again but oh well. I feel like I'm going to gouge the base with the metal scraper if I do too much more. The color still comes out a little with the wax that is removed. And I definitely feel the ridge edge of the graphic letters.

Did go riding last Thursday and it was less crowded. Concentrated on turns a lot more and made it down the hill a lot better, but was using all the hill side to side in my carving attempts. I did get on the toeside a lot more too and I was fine. Biggest thing I changed was my stance. Went back to the 12/-12 and concentrated on getting low. I would wrap my left arm behind my knee to make sure I was getting down there and I felt so much more stable and the speed wasn't an issue. I guess being 6'1 and not getting low was throwing my balance off a lot and I was becoming unstable at higher speeds. Not being crowded allowed me to stay in a toeside ride a lot better cutting across the hill. I still feel like I slow down way too much before the turn I initiate. I can't do it at speed yet. That knee pointing video also helped my a lot in the other post on this section. Felt that was helping with my feet and driving the board. All in all I think I did much better. Still no video. Maybe next time out if I can figure out how to make one by myself.

Anyway, color looks fine on the board still so must have been the wax residue as noted before.


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## bksdds (Jul 2, 2015)

strycker said:


> I was out riding, not on here. lol. Here's the new wax job. Pretty sure I didn't get it all off again but oh well. I feel like I'm going to gouge the base with the metal scraper if I do too much more. The color still comes out a little with the wax that is removed. And I definitely feel the ridge edge of the graphic letters.
> 
> Did go riding last Thursday and it was less crowded. Concentrated on turns a lot more and made it down the hill a lot better, but was using all the hill side to side in my carving attempts. I did get on the toeside a lot more too and I was fine. Biggest thing I changed was my stance. Went back to the 12/-12 and concentrated on getting low. I would wrap my left arm behind my knee to make sure I was getting down there and I felt so much more stable and the speed wasn't an issue. I guess being 6'1 and not getting low was throwing my balance off a lot and I was becoming unstable at higher speeds. Not being crowded allowed me to stay in a toeside ride a lot better cutting across the hill. I still feel like I slow down way too much before the turn I initiate. I can't do it at speed yet. That knee pointing video also helped my a lot in the other post on this section. Felt that was helping with my feet and driving the board. All in all I think I did much better. Still no video. Maybe next time out if I can figure out how to make one by myself.
> 
> Anyway, color looks fine on the board still so must have been the wax residue as noted before.


Nice on the wax job. I can feel the ridges barely on my base graphics so don't worry about it. Keep it up man. Just have to get used to that feeling of engaging that edge and then get used to riding locked in that edge.


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## ridinbend (Aug 2, 2012)

#cocknballs


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## speedjason (May 2, 2013)

yea dont use too much wax next time so it's easier to scrap off.


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## strycker (Jan 28, 2015)

speedjason said:


> yea dont use too much wax next time so it's easier to scrap off.


I used less this time and it still is tough to scrape. Maybe I'm letting it cool too much. It's pretty solid again before I remove it usually.


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## speedjason (May 2, 2013)

strycker said:


> I used less this time and it still is tough to scrape. Maybe I'm letting it cool too much. It's pretty solid again before I remove it usually.


I think I use one drop every 2 inches alone the parameter of the board maybe one pass down the center.
I set my iron to 120c.


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## freshy (Nov 18, 2009)

Going back to your stance, are you centered on the inserts and have the boots centered on the board? If your board has reference points on the inserts use those, otherwise ensure if you have say 2 inserts from the middle of the board to where your front binding is mounted you also have 2 inserts from the middle to the rear binding. Also make sure your boots are centered not necessarily your bindings. Easiest way I find is to tighten up your boots and do them up in the bindings and look from the base, there should be the same amount of heel and toe overhang.

If all that stuff is centered then it's all your technique. Either keep practicing or just get a lesson.


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## strycker (Jan 28, 2015)

freshy said:


> Going back to your stance, are you centered on the inserts and have the boots centered on the board? If your board has reference points on the inserts use those, otherwise ensure if you have say 2 inserts from the middle of the board to where your front binding is mounted you also have 2 inserts from the middle to the rear binding. Also make sure your boots are centered not necessarily your bindings. Easiest way I find is to tighten up your boots and do them up in the bindings and look from the base, there should be the same amount of heel and toe overhang.
> 
> If all that stuff is centered then it's all your technique. Either keep practicing or just get a lesson.


To answer that, yes, I've changed my stance back to a 12/-12 stance where I began. I made sure the bindings were centered. As for the boots, they are as close as I can get them to centered. I moved them back one spot as I felt like I was toe dragging on the front edge. It seemed to help. I've even measured my disc centers with a tape to make sure they are placed equal distance from the front and back tips of the board. It made all the difference having room to practice. Our slopes are just not ample enough unless you're out there at off-peak hours or mid-week nights. Being able to set the toe side and continue made a huge difference in my turning. Other times I have to watch people above me and try not to cross in front of them. I know I have the right of way technically, but they don't seem to care. They bomb the greens I try to practice on in a straight line top to bottom most of the time. I'm more cautious because of that.


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## freshy (Nov 18, 2009)

Right on just keep at it. Just one more comment on what you just said. If your board is a true twin measuring from the ends will work, but if it has setback you shouldn't trust those measurements. Reason being you want to be centred on your side cut, using reference points or equal amounts of inserts from the mid board will ensure that.


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## Fielding (Feb 15, 2015)

Instead of falling leaf on your heals, see if you can do falling leaf on your toes. Try to get used to having your back to the bottom of the mountain. As long as you keep your uphill edge engaged you'll be fine. (That is essentially snowboarding in a nutshell right there.)

Once you feel comfy on your toes, try to make some turns. Just skid the turns. Don't worry about carving. KEEP KNEES BENT and body ready to bounce. You'll need a little bit of speed in order to make some turns. If you've practiced your falling leaf then you know how to edge the board. That means you can always step on it abd dig in the uphill edge to put on the brakes if you need to. So now you gotta just do it. 

Point the board downhill to get a little speed. Once you've covered maybe 20 feet, put your weight on your front foot. This will be scary. You're going to be pointed down the mountain, and you'll be getting some speed that you don't think you know what to do with. So your instinct will tell you to lean onto your back foot, to lean back up the mountain to saftey. Don't. That's the instinct that makes it hard to learn how to ride. Beat that instinct. Once you have some speed, put your weight on the front and slide your back foot out to make the turn. Do it quickly. Just kick that back foot out to where you want it to be. All the while, keep that uphill rail dug into the snow. Just scrape the uphill rail through the turn. And don't catch your downhill rail. (Words to live by.) This will put your board back to perpendicular to the bottom of the mountain. Then you'll be dropping speed.

Before you come to a complete stop (and fall over), point the front of your board back down the hill, and get ready to put your weight on the front foot, kick out the back foot for your turn...repeat this process until you're at the bottom.

Consider: 

snowboarding slow is really hard to do. I have many more falls going slow than I do going fast. You need speed to predictably edge the board. 

Don't over-turn. If you turn past perpendicular to the bottom of the hill then you'll either stop cold or you'll end up going fakie down the mountain and then you'll freak out and probably bail. So don't exaggerate the turns too much. 

You need decent conditions to learn on. At least something that's soft, whether it's pow or slush. Hardpack sucks for learning. Sadly, the green runs are always the first ones to get hard and ice up. People polish the shit out of them by side slipping down them and doing that piece of pizza thing. If you can get off the lift OK and can at least falling leaf your way down a blue run, practice your turns on the gentle parts of a blue run. 

It might be easier to learn with a slightly forward stance than with a duck stance. A slightly forward stance will give you the ability to look down the mountain when you are doing a toe turn. This makes it less scary. I personally ride with either a flat back foot or a slightly forward back foot because I am not into park and I never go switch for very long.

Consider ducking work for a couple of weekdays in order to get some quality time with no crowds. 

Even better: a week spent someplace where there's good snow and a lot of room would probably see you linking turns down the blues with great confidence. Whereas 10 more half day trips to a cold, hard-frozen hill with narrow trails and big crowds might not see you doing anything more than you are now.


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## SGboarder (Jun 24, 2012)

Fielding said:


> Once you have some speed, put your weight on the front and slide your back foot out to make the turn. Do it quickly. Just kick that back foot out to where you want it to be. All the while, keep that uphill rail dug into the snow.


Don't. Do. That.


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## Fielding (Feb 15, 2015)

SGboarder said:


> Don't. Do. That.


Would you suggest a perfectly fluid carved turn instead of a skid turn for a beginner? Because I don't think it works that way.


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## ridinbend (Aug 2, 2012)

Fielding said:


> Would you suggest a perfectly fluid carved turn instead of a skid turn for a beginner? Because I don't think it works that way.


You used the word kick in the description of how to turn. Being unbalanced, irregularly weighted and kicking is not good advice. You don't need to carve to turn properly, just balanced weight and good form is enough to smoothly transition between her and toe side.


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## speedjason (May 2, 2013)

Fielding said:


> Would you suggest a perfectly fluid carved turn instead of a skid turn for a beginner? Because I don't think it works that way.


Just kicking the board around won't work either. You see that very often on the slope, board at an angle but flat, rider still going straight.
Edging is the key. Kinda the difference between snowboard and skateboard. Snowboard wants to slide in all directions where skateboard does not.


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## strycker (Jan 28, 2015)

Fielding said:


> Instead of falling leaf on your heals, see if you can do falling leaf on your toes. Try to get used to having your back to the bottom of the mountain. As long as you keep your uphill edge engaged you'll be fine. (That is essentially snowboarding in a nutshell right there.)
> 
> Once you feel comfy on your toes, try to make some turns. Just skid the turns. Don't worry about carving. KEEP KNEES BENT and body ready to bounce. You'll need a little bit of speed in order to make some turns. If you've practiced your falling leaf then you know how to edge the board. That means you can always step on it abd dig in the uphill edge to put on the brakes if you need to. So now you gotta just do it.
> 
> ...


Ducking work in a 2 man office is pretty hard .. lol. I could ask for time off and if there's not much work then I'm sure it'd be fine. I feel like I've got the basics down, it's just getting better and avoiding people. 

As for the board stance, I think I better check the Flying V for an offset. I set it up centered but you may be right on the setback note. Need to see what the manuf spec in for that board. The Rome Tour I have is a true twin board.


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## Fielding (Feb 15, 2015)

You're thinking too much about your setup. Any basically average setup that comes close to fitting your body will do when you're at your current level. No 3 degree tweak or 1 inch stance change is going to make you into a capable and confident rider if you're just heel sliding everywhere. All this setup changing is likely confusing for your body/brain. Just In case you're way off, The beginner setup I've had most luck with is slightly set back from center (your inserts likely already do this), rear +3 and front +18, stance equal to the distance between your kneecap and your heel when standing barefoot, and crank up the FLAD (no real objective measurement available here but you want more than none). This kinda setup promotes turning on the toe side. It'll let you see down the hill when you're on your toe rail. It's also pretty narrow so putting weight on the front foot won't feel so awkward and scary.

Learn to turn first. Learn to link your heel turns with your toe turns. Then, once youre able to S-turn at modest speed revisit your setup and consider duck if you wanna ride switch and do park.


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## SGboarder (Jun 24, 2012)

Fielding said:


> Would you suggest a perfectly fluid carved turn instead of a skid turn for a beginner? Because I don't think it works that way.


What the other guys said. Even skidded turns are initiated from the front foot, not by kicking the rear foot around.



ridinbend said:


> You used the word kick in the description of how to turn. Being unbalanced, irregularly weighted and kicking is not good advice. You don't need to carve to turn properly, just balanced weight and good form is enough to smoothly transition between her and toe side.





speedjason said:


> Just kicking the board around won't work either. You see that very often on the slope, board at an angle but flat, rider still going straight.
> Edging is the key. Kinda the difference between snowboard and skateboard. Snowboard wants to slide in all directions where skateboard does not.


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## Fielding (Feb 15, 2015)

If you read on, right after I use the word kick, I describe dragging the uphill edge down and around. The important thing is load to weight up on the front foot. Once you do that you can do almost anything you want with the backend. New riders always want to put all their weight on the back foot. That's a huge problem. It is possible to do a backf foot heavy turn at high-speed. But not at Low speed. First learn to skid. Then learn to carve.


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## strycker (Jan 28, 2015)

Fielding said:


> If you read on, right after I use the word kick, I describe dragging the uphill edge down and around. The important thing is load to weight up on the front foot. Once you do that you can do almost anything you want with the backend. New riders always want to put all their weight on the back foot. That's a huge problem. It is possible to do a backf foot heavy turn at high-speed. But not at Low speed. First learn to skid. Then learn to carve.


Well I survived multiple runs on the Far Side at Whitetail this past weekend. Working on turns is essential for that run and by the end off the trip there I was making it down Far Side (east coast black diamond) without really falling except due to the moguls that had built up. I was attempting carves in between the ditches they had created mid run. I feel like I've advanced a bit more now. Still attempting to stay low and centered, hand behind knee and weight forward over front foot. A few times I was really getting the foot roll to drive the board well. I was exhausted by the time we left. I was trying to heel side on slide on the huge piles to flatten them out by the end of the day.


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## ridinbend (Aug 2, 2012)

strycker said:


> I was trying to heel side on slide on the huge piles to flatten them out by the end of the day.


Ironic, the name of your thread is "too much heel side sliding".


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## strycker (Jan 28, 2015)

ridinbend said:


> Ironic, the name of your thread is "too much heel side sliding".


Yes, I realize that now. Problem with those piles is they send me airborne, a feeling I'm not yet used to on the board. I was able to land a continue on some of the time, but those piles were huge in the turn area (dogleg right basically.) It was like the skiers carved a valley into the run.


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