# Thank you and report back



## fayewolf (Jan 3, 2011)

Hi guys,

Thank you for helping me out with my (embarassing) super beginner questions last week! I made it out to the mountain today and rode for a few hours. I took another lesson because it's cheaper and I am really dumb in learning this sport for some reason. 

Okay, so finally, I was able to ride on my toe edge and able to link a few turns. So this does not happen all the time. And it's not like when i got it once it clicked and I can do it all the time either (diassapointed!!). However, the important thing is I know how it feels when the turn was done. I re-read the thread before I head up but I wasn't able to recall too much other than 
Allow the board to go nose down, flat for a bit then dig my shin into my boots, shoulder over toes and trust that the board will turn uphill. 


Well, here was the issue. My instructor today told me to look downhill all the time. So since I ride goofy, that means toward my right, so sometimes, when I do this, i'm traversing down the slope to the right at fairly high speed till I run out of room and hit the fence (a string thingy that separates us from the terrain park). did i not dig my shin down enough? I caught a feel heel edge too, I'm not sure why? Maybe i had a mental lapse and just fell. My ass hurt like hell since i fell mostly on my right cheeks, but at least tailbone and wrists are spared. 

And suddenly, I remember to lean into the slope (uphill) and this made my turns so much better. 

If my toe side turn is successful (without falling and feeling at ease), turning heelside is almost never a problem now. 

Well, I hope this is progress, albeit slower. I do want to thank everyone for their help!!


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## fayewolf (Jan 3, 2011)

Snowolf said:


> Well, don`t be too literal with this "always look downhill" advice. I am sure what your instructor was trying to to do was to get you to not be looking down at your feet (this is something I see my students do too much and I have to constantly nag them) I think a better "command" is to tell the student to "look where you are going" If I understand your description correctly, you were traversing across the hill on your heel edge attempting initiate the toeside turn? If so, there is really nothing you do with regard to looking as you should already be facing in the general direction of your toeside turn. One thing you can do is to point down the hill with your front arm. This will help you develop the habit of positioning your shoulder over the toe edge to help you make a more effective turn initiation.
> 
> A little thing that really helps too is to dip the front shoulder down toward your board a little. Think of trying to make your shoulders parallel to the slope as you point down the hill. Doing this keeps you positioned in a weight forward stance at a time when it is too easy to lean back up the hill. In addition, it is more than pushing the shin into the boot. You need to think in terms of driving your knee out and down in front of you toward the snow. If done correctly, you will feel the weight on the ball of your foot. As you drive the knee down, also pull it in toward your rear binding a bit. This adds some rotational force to your board as well as torsional twist.
> 
> In any turn, the lower you get by flexing (closing) the ankles and knees to get lower, the more effective these movements are going to be and the more stable you will remain through your turn.


Snowolf, thank you again, sorry, I'm still a bit muddy about my terms. What I meant was:
I've already pointed my board nose down, getting ready to dip my shoulder and push my shin down to initiate a toe side turn. I can get this sort of started but maybe I didn't push down with both toes/shins), i find myself essentially going down the slope diagonally on my toe edge fairly quickly. This is when I momentarily look up the mountain (away from looking down the hill), i find it easier to complete the turn. But my instructor wants me to continue to where I'm going which cause me to continue traversing (not straight across) down the slope instead of completing my turn. 

Now that I"m no longer on the slope, I think what happened was I didn't engage my rear foot fast enough. So, i probably was just engaging my front toe edge and side slipping on that edge.


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## slyder (Jan 18, 2010)

fayewolf said:


> i find myself essentially going down the slope diagonally on my toe edge fairly quickly. This is when I momentarily look up the mountain (away from looking down the hill), i find it easier to complete the turn.


it sounds like you aren't pressing enough to get the board to pull you completely into the turn. Almost like you are balancing on the toe edge making you just go diagonally. 
Is your body leaned back while your toes are pushing onto the edge, basically creating a balance beam so to say??

Don't fret though, it sounds like you are progressing and you are feeling and realizing the physics of the board/body movements. A few more times and this will all of a sudden just click and become second nature.


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## Bones (Feb 24, 2008)

fayewolf said:


> I took another lesson because it's cheaper and I am really dumb in learning this sport for some reason.
> ...
> Well, I hope this is progress, albeit slower.


Actually it sounds like pretty good progression to me.

I remember what it was like for me the first half of my first season and it was almost exactly like your description: a little frustration sneaking in and a whole bunch of analysing.

I still take weekly lessons and see the never ever and beginner groups going thru exactly what you're going thru. And then hear the same stories over beers later on (pretty social lesson program at my hill).

And from what I've experienced, seen and heard, you're at the hardest, most frustrating part of the learning curve and you're certainly not alone in experiencing it. Just keep doing what you're doing and you'll push over the hump. And THEN, the progress comes fast and furious and you feel like you're getting better every run, every turn!


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## Jeklund (Dec 14, 2009)

Sounds like to me your counter rotated a little bit and not leaning over enough to get that edge engaged. Simply pushing your shins against the front of your boots isn't going to do much unless you follow through with your entire body.


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## fayewolf (Jan 3, 2011)

slyder said:


> it sounds like you aren't pressing enough to get the board to pull you completely into the turn. Almost like you are balancing on the toe edge making you just go diagonally.
> Is your body leaned back while your toes are pushing onto the edge, basically creating a balance beam so to say??
> 
> Don't fret though, it sounds like you are progressing and you are feeling and realizing the physics of the board/body movements. A few more times and this will all of a sudden just click and become second nature.


I'm not sure if I'm forming a balance beam or not. But not until the last two run that I suddenly remember to lean towards the slope and all of a sudden I'm a lot more stable. I'm waiting for the clicking moment!!



Bones said:


> Actually it sounds like pretty good progression to me.
> 
> I remember what it was like for me the first half of my first season and it was almost exactly like your description: a little frustration sneaking in and a whole bunch of analysing.
> 
> ...


I agree that I'm at the steepest learning curve stage. The 2nd time I was on the slope, I was quite comfortable with heel side so naturally I would fall back to that and do falling leaf. The 3rd time up, I forced myself to try going down toe side edge, and then forced to link turns. This is when I start catching edge and falling alot. As long as my right butt heals (it's really sore and inflamed now), I'll get back out there!!


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## fayewolf (Jan 3, 2011)

Snowolf said:


> Couple of things then......
> 
> So it sounds like you are making the transition from your heel edge to your toe edge; going through the fall line and all. This is good. Turn initiation is the hardest part to get. Now you need to just work on turn completion. In addition, set up your shoulders sooner; before your board enters the fall line. As soon as the board enters the fall line, push down on that front toe to quickly steer it back out of the fall line. If the board does not respond quickly enough, increase that torsional twist by pressing harder on the toe of the front foot.
> 
> ...


I finally kinda understand what you mean by torsion twist, if I understand correctly, this is like the gas/clutch thing where from my toe side traverse, I would relax my front front, but keeping my rear foot toe edge engaged, so it's sorta like twisiting my board in opposite directions? this will help make the nose of my board get back into the fall line, but since my rear foot is still engaged in toe edge, it won't have me fly down?

I am SO GLAD that I don't have to be completely horizontal to the fall line in order to initiate my next turn. You are ABSOLUTELY right that when I'm across the fall line and have to go to the other edge, it's like an "OMG, here it goes" moment. 

But please allow me to ask you to clarify this. If I'm doing this open ended turn, when my board is not totally across the fall line, so basically, when I initated my toe side turn, I'm side slipping across the fall line diagonally, correct? If I start relaxing my front foot at this stage and keep my rear foot engaged in my toe edge until the board point straight down, I won't fall, right? 

To answer your question:

Just a question:.....is the instructor trying to get you to not turn up the hill and instead come out of the turn and set up for your heel side?

The reason he told me to do this is because when I look up the hill, I sorta stay there and forgot to come back out and i would have a mental lapse and catch the heel edge (I'm not sure why I do that, perhaps because I would be facing up hill, and forget to allow my board to go back to the fall line and try to get the hell out of the toe edge and start to switch edge too soon because I'm so afraid of the toe edge, but not sure)
I think thats exactly what you've described though.

One more thing, as I was reading some old threads, you mentioned this:
Remember that at this stage with basic turns, the board needs to go from one edge to flat before going to the new edge. Allow that board to flatten out before applying pressure to the new edge. In these types of turns, this means the board will pointing down the fall line on a fairly flat base. As long as the board is traveling straight tip to tail, you will not catch an edge and are safe to pressure either edge of the board depending on what direction you wish to go.

Does both feet need to be in neutral position(no toe side or heel side) in order for the board to point straight tip to tail? If not, say that I can still keep my rear foot engaged in an edge, can I still switch edge at this point?


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## slyder (Jan 18, 2010)

Snowolf,
Since this seems to be a fairly common question or instruction method. You should try to make a video of this on "dry dock" to show what you mean and how the board flexes with the pressure. I think this would help explain/show to many of your students and beginners the principle of how the board turns and the actual move moment. 
Sounds like it might be a some work to make but since you or someone with similar teaching ability, the point would be made clearly and correctly and help many new/newer riders.

Just a thought


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## slyder (Jan 18, 2010)

yes, because I would bet that even though instructors or friends explain this. They don't understand teh flex or how the edge tip pulls the board around. A visual as we all know is worth a thousand words. Especially if the person never skiied or snowboarded.

again something I thought that would help


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## metric (Jan 16, 2011)

Okay I had to register, because this thread explains my first ever experience snowboarding to a T. I went for the first time in the Alps yesterday with a lesson in the morning. Heel turns as expected were easy after about 30 mins. But I couldn't get my toe turn to work correctly. I think I was also not coming out of my toe turn quick enough, because I tended to get too close to perpendicular to the fall line, and then I couldn't get back to initiate my heel turn again. 

I learned a lot last night about the torsional forces on the board, so I'm going to try to concentrate on initiating the turns with my lead foot and following through with my back foot.

Snowolf you have a way with words. Every time I read one of your posts it is easy for me to picture in my mind exactly what you're trying to say. Thanks a lot! I will let you know how it goes today.


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## fayewolf (Jan 3, 2011)

I'm glad I'm not alone!!! Let us know how it goes! 
By the way, since I ride goofy, when I catch an edge, i fell on my right cheek of my ass, and it's been 2 days and its still sore like hell when I sit on it. There are no visual bruises or anything, but when I pressed deep down, it hurts, I think it's also a bit inflamed. Any tips on faster healing? 
i'm icing, using arnica gel, and taking arica tablets. It doesn't hurt while walking or train in martial arts, but I cannot even bear the thought about riding and landing on my right ass when it's sore to even sit.


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## metric (Jan 16, 2011)

Finally have some time to report back on my snowboarding day on Monday. I went back to some easier blues to practice linking turns. I now definitely have the feel for initiating the turns and straightening the board out down the fall line using pressure on my front foot, but my toe side turns still need some work. I still feel that I'm picking up too much speed diagonally before my toes really start to slide into the turn and burn off speed.

I think what I need to work on is keeping my weight forward and doing the 'dry hump' with my hips in front like Snowolf has talked about before. I'm eager as ever to get back on the piste and practice practice practice. On the bright side, I managed to conquer both the T-bar and chairlift without falling once 

Also a question: I'm renting a board/boots for the season and for whatever reason, the dude decided to set my bindings at 27/-15. Could the large angle of my front binding be affecting my ability to turn toe side? I'm going to give 15/-15 a try for next time.


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## fayewolf (Jan 3, 2011)

metric: this happened to me too!! I would be turning over my shoulder to look diagonally down hill, put weight on my front foot, maybe i'm applying toe pressure (against shin) or maybe not enough, but I literally will freakn fly down the moutain diagonally and I know I'm applying some pressure on the toe side edge because i can hear the "shhhhhhhhhhh and snow flying", but it won't slow down, and I freak out until I either fall down or apply so much pressure that it stops!!!

What I really need to learn to do is when I'm getting my board tail to nose straight, to keep pressure on my rear foot, so I'm not always flyign down the mountain leaving me no time to think about what to do next!


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## Donutz (May 12, 2010)

Turn uphill. I'm always yelling that at my daughter when she starts to go too fast and panic. If you don't like your speed, turn uphill.


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## fayewolf (Jan 3, 2011)

I know... sometimes I will be able to do that. But sometimes I freaked out and i was going so fast, my brain won't work and all I can think of is, okay, let's do a heel side edge to stop it (umm before my board points down hill) and bam, catch an edge.


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## fayewolf (Jan 3, 2011)

Hi Snowolf, yes, so I would completed my heel side turn, point board nose down, flat for a sec, then initiate my toe side turn. The turn initiation usually is fine, I would be traversing across the slope on my toe side, but at a speed where I don't really like, it all happen so fast that my brain would lock up!! I think sometimes I would apply more toe pressure and I would come to a complete stop, panic and wanting to link the turn, i would try to initiate the heel side before my board goes thru that nose down stage and catch an edge


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## Donutz (May 12, 2010)

fayewolf said:


> Hi Snowolf, yes, so I would completed my heel side turn, point board nose down, flat for a sec, then initiate my toe side turn. The turn initiation usually is fine, I would be traversing across the slope on my toe side, but at a speed where I don't really like, it all happen so fast that my brain would lock up!! I think sometimes I would apply more toe pressure and I would come to a complete stop, panic and wanting to link the turn, i would try to initiate the heel side before my board goes thru that nose down stage and catch an edge


So it sounds like you complete a heelside turn, then more-or-less complete a toeside turn but skid-stop toeside because of speed, then try to initiate another heelside too soon, catch a heel-edge, and fall over. That's what I'm reading.


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## gjsnowboarder (Sep 1, 2009)

in addition with Snowolf's last suggestion I suggest looking for visual cues to help you stay actively moving. Remember try this after first attempting the forementioned movements first.

Use a counting system. somewhere between 1-3 or 1-5. I will use the 1-5 for instance. You will want try and match the nose of your board with these cues. Start on your toeside in a traverse
1- is straight across the hill to slightyly up(left side of run)
2- is at a 45 degree angle down the hill
3- is straight down
4- is at a 45 degree angle down the hill (right side of run.)
5- is back straight across to slightly up the hill.
now repeat back for your next turn.

try looking only 15 feet(or whatever the size of your turns will be) or so down at the snow where you plan on turning.
keep the count going at the same pace to build flow between your turns.
if it helps make a pointing gesture to where your are turning too in the snow. Once you get comfortable you will be able to stop this.
Make sure to count out loud. Otherwise you will have a tendency to stop counting which probably means you have stopped moving throughout your whole turn.
Try different counts with different sizes of turn.

Remember you will still need to make the movements descibed above in earlier posts. This trick is primarily a mental one. You can even make specific movements at specific counts to help you turn. i.e. at 1 let your foot start goin flat. at 2 starting turning(rotating) your foot and hip in the direction of your turn) 3. Starting pressing your lead foot up hill edge into the snow and raising the downhill edge with both feet 4. continue rotating adding in the back foot now. 5. finish out the turn with your back foot pressing uphill edge into snow. and then back to one. There are many ways to use the "count" to assist in learning to ride.


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## fayewolf (Jan 3, 2011)

Thank you!! I think the counting will definately help to get me into rhythm!


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## fayewolf (Jan 3, 2011)

Donutz said:


> So it sounds like you complete a heelside turn, then more-or-less complete a toeside turn but skid-stop toeside because of speed, then try to initiate another heelside too soon, catch a heel-edge, and fall over. That's what I'm reading.


Exactly. I still remember how I would be traversing on my toeside, i kept looking down the hill (at a spot where I DIDN"T want to go), and it just kept carving down (or whatever the word you use skid, carve..)until I say to myself, okay enough already, if I don't skid stop toeside, i'll either drift all the way into the otherside of the fence (terrain park) or I'll have to just fall and stop


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## Donutz (May 12, 2010)

fayewolf said:


> Exactly. I still remember how I would be traversing on my toeside, i kept looking down the hill (at a spot where I DIDN"T want to go), and it just kept carving down (or whatever the word you use skid, carve..)until I say to myself, okay enough already, if I don't skid stop toeside, i'll either drift all the way into the otherside of the fence (terrain park) or I'll have to just fall and stop


Well, I don't have Snowolf's knowledge of technique details, but I can tell you one thing -- you'll always go where you're looking. If you're looking where you don't want to go, you're gonna go there.


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## fayewolf (Jan 3, 2011)

Just came back from the mountains and it is much better this time! I was able to get to a long green run and link my turns. The first few times, I had to bring my toe side turn to almost a complete stop , horizontal to the slope, then think in my head, relax front toe edge, keep rear toe edge engaged, nose start to turn, i flatten the board by relaxing my rear foot and immediate do my heel side turn. 
Then I was able to do it without the pause/stop. 
But this doesn't happen all the time, I fell alot less on the green runs.

Went with a friend and she really wanted to try the blue runs *totally regret this*.... I went with her, I was freakn out on the ski lift, it was fast and so high up (afraid of height here). Then I started the decent, for the life of me, I just cannot convince myself to do the toe side at all, and when I do, I fall immediately, i can't even tell you how that happened. It was just too steep for me at this stage. 
I also happened to rendenered myself into a cat track and having absolutely no clue what to do. i was able to get thru it, but got stuck in an area where I could fall down a steep cliff, and then comes a hella steep slope, i can barely convince myself to be able to stand up with my board in the middle of this slope... totally freaked out. But now, I have this experience (i actually tried this twice), will go back to the greens and practice. 

I really don't quite understand why the speed freaks me out so bad and why its taking me so long to learn this!


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## slyder (Jan 18, 2010)

It is very key at this point to not put yourself into these type of situations. Personally I would have un-buckled and walked down.
Stay with the gentler slopes till you start to become more comfortable. I still don't ride many black trails, I can, it's just not what I enjoy.
Keep working on the fundementals, then progress to the harder terrian trails.


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## firstx1017 (Jan 10, 2011)

Fayewolf,

I am having some of the same problems you are having. I have posted some videos of my progress for Snowolf to help me out and it has helped. I have been run into by other snowboarders while going to my toe edge and falling. After that I can't tell you how long it takes me to get up the nerve to try toe edge again. I posted in the video yesterday of the guy coming out of nowhere and sure enough, it happened again today but with a girl running into me. I was having a hard time going from toe edge to heel edge and my problem was I was not squatting while starting the turn and extending into the turn. I have remedied that with Snowolf's advise and today was even better than yesterday. Going to toe side has been easier to me, once I get up the nerve to it. I traverse alot on my heelside getting up the courage to go toeside! lol Today I really started linking my turns quicker and really got the timing down, but didn't get any video today because it was on the wrong setting. My husband was so upset with himself as you could really see the progression I made today on the videos. And by the way, I'm trying to learn this at 50! lol Here are the links to the video last week and the one from yesterday. I can't wait to try again tomorrow.

YouTube - critic my ride
"critique" my ride

YouTube - ride after snowolf advice


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## fayewolf (Jan 3, 2011)

firstx1017 said:


> Fayewolf,
> 
> I am having some of the same problems you are having. I have posted some videos of my progress for Snowolf to help me out and it has helped. I have been run into by other snowboarders while going to my toe edge and falling. After that I can't tell you how long it takes me to get up the nerve to try toe edge again. I posted in the video yesterday of the guy coming out of nowhere and sure enough, it happened again today but with a girl running into me. I was having a hard time going from toe edge to heel edge and my problem was I was not squatting while starting the turn and extending into the turn. I have remedied that with Snowolf's advise and today was even better than yesterday. Going to toe side has been easier to me, once I get up the nerve to it. I traverse alot on my heelside getting up the courage to go toeside! lol Today I really started linking my turns quicker and really got the timing down, but didn't get any video today because it was on the wrong setting. My husband was so upset with himself as you could really see the progression I made today on the videos. And by the way, I'm trying to learn this at 50! lol Here are the links to the video last week and the one from yesterday. I can't wait to try again tomorrow.
> 
> ...


Dang, those are really good!!! I wish i can be smooth like you!! I'm frankly quite frustrated, I'm usually fairly good with sorts, but for some reason, snowboarding is so difficult! 

Did you have a turning point/breaking point? How long did you stay in greens before you get comfortable to go onto the blues?


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## firstx1017 (Jan 10, 2011)

I've been a skier for only 4 years and was finding that difficult to master. I am not one who likes to go fast and skiing would BURN my thighs. When the conditions would get slushy I just couldn't go fast in those conditions and was basically just plowing down the mile run - which when I got to the bottom my thighs were screaming at me to stop. My husband started snowboarding 3 years ago and he says he likes it better than skiing. When you get to a steep hill you if you don't feel comfortable you can just falling leaf it down, which sounded good to me. He never talks about his thighs screaming at him, so, for my 50th birthday I decided to give it a try, lost 50 pounds and my first time on a snowboard was Thanksgiving Day 2010. It has not come easy to me at all! I can only do about 2 hours a day before I am wiped out so two weekends to me is like 1 day to a regular person! lol The run in the video is one mile green run. I have not ventured to blues as at our resort they are pretty steep for me - I had a hell of a time on the blues even with skis. Today was my best day, and as I said I have no video which is a bummer as I had a really good faceplant that I did today! lol I got a good rhythm going and was linking my turns so much closer together and found out that by doing that you can control your speed more - funny how it takes you to get to this point to control your speed. Will try to post tomorrow and you can sure tell the difference just in these past 2 weekends. Keep at it!


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## fayewolf (Jan 3, 2011)

firstx1017 said:


> I've been a skier for only 4 years and was finding that difficult to master. I am not one who likes to go fast and skiing would BURN my thighs. When the conditions would get slushy I just couldn't go fast in those conditions and was basically just plowing down the mile run - which when I got to the bottom my thighs were screaming at me to stop. My husband started snowboarding 3 years ago and he says he likes it better than skiing. When you get to a steep hill you if you don't feel comfortable you can just falling leaf it down, which sounded good to me. He never talks about his thighs screaming at him, so, for my 50th birthday I decided to give it a try, lost 50 pounds and my first time on a snowboard was Thanksgiving Day 2010. It has not come easy to me at all! I can only do about 2 hours a day before I am wiped out so two weekends to me is like 1 day to a regular person! lol The run in the video is one mile green run. I have not ventured to blues as at our resort they are pretty steep for me - I had a hell of a time on the blues even with skis. Today was my best day, and as I said I have no video which is a bummer as I had a really good faceplant that I did today! lol I got a good rhythm going and was linking my turns so much closer together and found out that by doing that you can control your speed more - funny how it takes you to get to this point to control your speed. Will try to post tomorrow and you can sure tell the difference just in these past 2 weekends. Keep at it!


You go girl!!! Not ever been on snow ever before this year, i think might be a bit of disadvantage! I did falling leaf all the way down the blues since that was the only way i could've get down, walking down was too steep, i just sucked it up and do it . I can't even tell you how long those runs were, but I suspect they are fairly long. I would love to see your new video!! 
My thighs were burning because I had to go down falling leaf on my heels and had to use it to control my speed. Yikes.. i really want to be able to do this at ease!!


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## metric (Jan 16, 2011)

Same problem as both of you. I am now much more comfortable with my toe side turns after having made myself ride more on toe side yesterday, but the hardest part for me is going back to my heel side. I know that I need to keep my weight forward and stay low, because when I do that it seems to help. The speed I am still trying to get used to, so I have tried to practice going (nearly) straight on easy European blues with a little toe edge to prevent edge catches.

I think my biggest problem is finding easy slopes that are wide with no steep sections or narrow cat tracks. The place I went to yesterday it took me a couple hours just to find a place to practice that didn't have sections where I end up wasting my time falling leaf down portions of it. Then at the end of the day, when I had to go down a harder blue to get back to the base of the mountain, it was near closing time so there were 1,000 snowboarders passing right by me going Mach 10


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## firstx1017 (Jan 10, 2011)

Fayewolf, here is my video from this morning. This was the last of 7 one mile runs of the day before I had to head home from excitment and exhaustion! lol I can't believe the difference from last Sunday's video prior to Snowolfs posted advice to this morning. One thing, I do have a flat rocker board which I was advised to get by the pro shop as it does not catch edges as easy as a camber board and due to my age and how I am not interested in jumps, rails, jibs, etc. etc. etc. and just want to get down green/blue runs they recommended it, however, it can be squirrely when flat on the ground which I had to get used to. My husband got one also and LOVES it compared to the camber board he had. They also say that you can progress faster on the flat rocker boards than a camber board and I was all for that! And after the "arm" advice and the leg extension on my back edge, I feel I made a huge improvement from last Sunday. Keep at it and keep posting your progress - I'd love to read the updates.

Vicki - the 50 year old elderly snowboarder - lol

YouTube - 1 23 2011


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## fayewolf (Jan 3, 2011)

It really is amazing!! Love how smooth and consistent your turns are! I just don't know if I will ever get there, i don't live very close to the mountains. I see that you are using your front hand to point where you are going does that really help? I"m going to give that a try. 

I don't know what the difference is in board. I have absolutely no interest in jumps, tricks/rails/box, whatever they do in the terrain park. My goal is the same as yours, being ableto cruise down the blues and greens. Maybe I'll look into getting a rocker board too, I have no idea what that is though. Which model did you get?

Oh, so I'm not sure if i actually squat down when I do my heel side turn, but i'm still having a bit of a problem turning toe side. Now most of the time I'm able to do it, but it takes me a long time to make a turn, like I would traverse on my heel side for a long time, take a deep breath, omg omg omg, release my front heel edge, then my dreaded moment when my board is flat for one second, i dip my shoulder and dig my shin onto my boots, i flet like I'm leaning my shoulder ALOT onto my front foot (I'm goofy, so this is my right shoulder onto my right foot), then add my rear foot toe edge.


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## slyder (Jan 18, 2010)

Not sure this will help but visualize and think like in chess. Maybe try thinking several steps ahead for those turns.


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## firstx1017 (Jan 10, 2011)

fayewolf said:


> It really is amazing!! Love how smooth and consistent your turns are! I just don't know if I will ever get there, i don't live very close to the mountains. I see that you are using your front hand to point where you are going does that really help? I"m going to give that a try.
> 
> I don't know what the difference is in board. I have absolutely no interest in jumps, tricks/rails/box, whatever they do in the terrain park. My goal is the same as yours, being ableto cruise down the blues and greens. Maybe I'll look into getting a rocker board too, I have no idea what that is though. Which model did you get?
> 
> Oh, so I'm not sure if i actually squat down when I do my heel side turn, but i'm still having a bit of a problem turning toe side. Now most of the time I'm able to do it, but it takes me a long time to make a turn, like I would traverse on my heel side for a long time, take a deep breath, omg omg omg, release my front heel edge, then my dreaded moment when my board is flat for one second, i dip my shoulder and dig my shin onto my boots, i flet like I'm leaning my shoulder ALOT onto my front foot (I'm goofy, so this is my right shoulder onto my right foot), then add my rear foot toe edge.


Fayewolf,
Mar arm is up because Snowolf saw that I was always looking down the hill an not leaning my shoulders towards my turns. With my arm up I look at my hand and when I go to toe edge I move my arm to the toe side of the board and my shoulder then moves to the toe side and I look at my hand which turns my head. Being a skier, I was stuck in always wanting to face forward and always looking down the hill. But I've been there like you being on my heelside and traversing all the way getting up the nerve to go to my toe edge and then falling numerous times - not to mention going to toe side and having errant snowboarders running into me! lol I found it best while going to my toe edge for me to think about popping up and thrusting my hips forward and arching my back. When I put too much weight on my front foot on toe edge I tended to fall or it would start carving and then I'd lose control. I'm not at the "carving" stage and when I accidentally start carving it really throws your weight off and usually I would fall. I've done it heelside where I started carving and then went out of control also. So, when practicing I would start by coming to almost a complete stop on my heelside, slowly lift off the pressure from your front foot to start the board going downhill, move your arm to the toe side and then put pressure on my toes, pop up and extend with my hips pushed toward the hill and arching my back. It took me awhile to start to go to toe edge with more speed. I would always come to an almost complete stop before I tried toe edge so I was not going fast and could complete the turn. We all learning differently so this is just my take, I'm no expert yet! lol

As for the board, here is a link to look at. 

Rocker Guide - What is "Rocker" and why does it matter? | evo

They make Banana boards, reverse camber boards and the new ones are hybrids now which isn't listed. I have the flat rocker and the front and back ends are bowed up slightly and flat in the middle. My camber board was bowed up in the middle and that is I guess where you would catch edges. I asked for advise on the Boards section here because they said flat rocker boards are good for park riding which I wasn't going to be doing. But then "Nefarious" said it would be good for what I wanted, just cruising down the mountain in greens/blues like in my video. In the end, I went with Nefarious's advice and went ahead and got it. The first day I only used it twice and I wasn't thrilled with it. Then went back to my regular camber board and caught the edges so much that the next day I tried the flat rocker out again and I did much better. My husband kept telling me to stick with it as he noticed how much easier it is for him to snowboard on the flat rocker than on his camber board. Now I love it - I'm a converter! lol

Hope this helps!


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## fayewolf (Jan 3, 2011)

firstx1017 said:


> So, when practicing I would start by coming to almost a complete stop on my heelside, slowly lift off the pressure from your front foot to start the board going downhill, move your arm to the toe side and then put pressure on my toes, pop up and extend with my hips pushed toward the hill and arching my back. It took me awhile to start to go to toe edge with more speed. I would always come to an almost complete stop before I tried toe edge so I was not going fast and could complete the turn. We all learning differently so this is just my take, I'm no expert yet! lol


Yes, that's what I'm doing as well. I almost come to a complete stop on my heel side. The problem is sometimes my heel edge "overshoots" and I ended up have to go heel side on my other foot and try again... going from toe side edge to heel side edge, I don't really have to go to a stop. I don't know why, so weird. 



Snowolf said:


> That aiming with the front arm thing is a training aid that helps the new rider to position their upper body correctly for each turn.
> 
> For your heelside, definitely sit down into it a bit; this weights the heel edge without the problems of leaning back over the edge. It keeps your body weight stacked over the board and keeps maximum edge pressure on your heel edge.
> 
> On your toe side turns, it is good that you are positioning the shoulder, but don`t forget to flex that front leg. Think of driving the front knee down towards the snow and also pull it back toward your rear foot to add some rotational force. "down and back" is what you should be thinking.


Thank you snowolf! The shoulder dipping is helping tremendously. What is difficult for me is thrusting my hip forward. When I dip my shoulder to my front foot (right foot since I ride goofy), i also lean my shoulder into the big toe of that foot. so, my shoulder is kind of pushed forward towards the uphill and my entire body is leaning forward, when my shoulders are drived downwards, it's difficult to thrust my hip forward when my shoulder (upper body) is already leaning forward, is this wrong?


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## firstx1017 (Jan 10, 2011)

Yes, that's what I'm doing as well. I almost come to a complete stop on my heel side. The problem is sometimes my heel edge "overshoots" and I ended up have to go heel side on my other foot and try again... going from toe side edge to heel side edge, I don't really have to go to a stop. I don't know why, so weird. 

Yes, I was doing that also a few weeks ago. I would overshoot and have to "falling leaf" it the other way and then come back and try to go to toe side again. I basically did the whole run going to toe side then back to heel side, overshoot and falling leave it to the other foot and then back to my front foot to set up for the toe edge turn. I just kept at it and once I figured out I was overshooting because I was not fully extended while on my heel side I don't overshoot near as much. Now it is the terrain and lopsided hills that will make me overshoot sometimes.


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