# Rocker vs Camber????



## seant46 (Dec 8, 2009)

I like a soft camber board, that way you can still press and i find that they lock into boardslides better.


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## BurtonAvenger (Aug 14, 2007)

I tried riding a Cambered deck for the first time in 2 years 2 weeks ago. It sucked dick I'd rather ride something that's alternate camber they're more fun and easier to learn tricks on and steer the way a snowboard should from beneath the feet not out at the tips.


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## Technine Icon (Jan 15, 2009)

Rocker is easier on rails and boxes because the board is pre-pressed so it's really easy to to style out your slides and presses. Yes, rockers are not very stable at high speeds and on bigger jumps, but trust me, if you have the skills you can use the board on bigger jumps. Rocker boards are going to defenitly help your progression in the park because you're not going to catch as many edges, so that will build up your confidence level. The only reason to get camber for the park is if your going to be riding big jumps all day or want to learn the hard way.


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## n2i1c3k7 (Jun 23, 2009)

BurtonAvenger said:


> I tried riding a Cambered deck for the first time in 2 years 2 weeks ago. It sucked dick I'd rather ride something that's alternate camber they're more fun and easier to learn tricks on and steer the way a snowboard should from beneath the feet not out at the tips.


is this including bataleons tbt, I know it is cambered but is a variation of it and am wondering if you think rocker is far better than that too?


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## BurtonAvenger (Aug 14, 2007)

Technine Icon said:


> Rocker is easier on rails and boxes because the board is pre-pressed so it's really easy to to style out your slides and presses. Yes, rockers are not very stable at high speeds and on bigger jumps, but trust me, if you have the skills you can use the board on bigger jumps. Rocker boards are going to defenitly help your progression in the park because you're not going to catch as many edges, so that will build up your confidence level. The only reason to get camber for the park is if your going to be riding big jumps all day or want to learn the hard way.


Shit guess my 67 reverse camber swallow tail that's designed for hard charging pow lines must suck or my 56 turbo dream can't handle charging hard. Truth is there's so many boards that are built well for all mountain use that have some kind of alternate camber on them.

TBT is not rocker it's just a tweaked base theory with camber, at the end of the day it's still camber. Camber is dead, don't know about everyone else but I'm all for anything that makes snowboarding easier otherwise we'd be making boards in our garage, riding in sorels, and still hiking up golf courses.


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## legallyillegal (Oct 6, 2008)

camber killed snowboarding


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## n2i1c3k7 (Jun 23, 2009)

i got to try a burton v-rocker and loved it except it felt very loose. i only demoed it for 3-4 runs though, do you get use to this feeling over time or is it always going to feel this way?


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## deerpark30 (Jun 27, 2009)

legallyillegal said:


> camber killed snowboarding


What do you mean?


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## VietOne (Apr 1, 2009)

n2i1c3k7 said:


> i got to try a burton v-rocker and loved it except it felt very loose. i only demoed it for 3-4 runs though, do you get use to this feeling over time or is it always going to feel this way?


All RC boards will feel loose. This is why they are great for park progression. You can attempt to hit that 360 and maybe go 300 degrees and land but the shape of the board will be more forgiving and spin around that extra 60 degrees while normal boards will end up catching an edge.

Also, normal chamber boards will always be more solid turn faster carving because of shape. When turning, tip and tail of the board acts like a spring pressing down in the turn and thats why it feels more solid while the RC boards do not get this effect. RC boards have the spring like effect in the middle of the edge and thats why the tip and tail feel more loose.

I have yet to ride a RC board that is as solid as a normal chamber board.


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## FLuiD (Jul 6, 2009)

I think we need to clarify this as there are MANY variations of "Alternative Camber"..... You can't compare a R/C Never Summer Raptor or Premier to say a true "rocker" Skate Banana etc. 

And for the poster above. Have you ridden a Never Summer or C2 Lib/GNU because if not it probably wasn't Rocker/Camber... Go ride a new Premier F1-R for a day and I bet you wouldn't say the same thing!


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## BurtonAvenger (Aug 14, 2007)

Here read these The Angry Snowboarder Blog Archive Camber Theories Explained
The Angry Snowboarder Blog Archive Camber Theories In Use


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## Guest (Apr 8, 2010)

Reverse camber / alternate camber is lame. It's like riding a bike with training wheels. Same with Magne traction - all these things create bad riding habits ie Let you get away with things - hiddious things , sloppy things that you wouldn't get away with normally. Bad style. 

When your board lets you get away with things like landing 90 degress to you landing , it's bad. When the time comes to step it up on bigger jumps , that reliance on your boards technology to do the job is very sketchy. And more often than not you'll eat shit trying to grease that last spin around.

Unless you like to fold your board in half on jumps or do wwwwwwwickeeeed over-vert roll on nose presses then why don't you just buy something thats got some shape to it , not a big slab of shit like what Mervin is producing.


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## BurtonAvenger (Aug 14, 2007)

10 bucks you don't even snowboard


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## jitpunkia (Mar 24, 2010)

BurtonAvenger said:


> Here read these The Angry Snowboarder Blog Archive Camber Theories Explained
> The Angry Snowboarder Blog Archive Camber Theories In Use


awesome link

and i can see the point where reverse camber killed snowboarding . but nevertheless im still having so much fun with my banana .. 

one question . when they say banana traction, does that mean magnetraction + reverse camber?


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## lupine (Sep 16, 2009)

discostix said:


> Reverse camber / alternate camber is lame. It's like riding a bike with training wheels. Same with Magne traction - all these things create bad riding habits ie Let you get away with things - hiddious things , sloppy things that you wouldn't get away with normally. Bad style.
> 
> When your board lets you get away with things like landing 90 degress to you landing , it's bad. When the time comes to step it up on bigger jumps , that reliance on your boards technology to do the job is very sketchy. And more often than not you'll eat shit trying to grease that last spin around.
> 
> Unless you like to fold your board in half on jumps or do wwwwwwwickeeeed over-vert roll on nose presses then why don't you just buy something thats got some shape to it , not a big slab of shit like what Mervin is producing.


You sir are a world class moron! Suggestion: Actually ride a Mervin board, try the GNU Park Pickle or Lib Tech Skate Banana, then form an opinion.


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## Guest (Apr 8, 2010)

Rode a park pickle when they first dropped last season. Besides looking like a giant green shit the board was shite for hitting bigger jumps , I rode the 150 ( Yes 150 , I ride usually a 151. No I don't need a 158 custom x) And it blew for jumping. It was fun to play around on but The asysimmetric edge made me get lazy on rotating tricks. 

I don't snowboard , I just sit on the Internet and read other peoples reviews like the rest of you punters


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## legallyillegal (Oct 6, 2008)

haha i like this discostix kid


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## Guest (Apr 9, 2010)

So then what would be the most effective way to progress in the park ( the correct way). I heard before that r/c do let you get away with things like spins on jumps, and much easier on rails.


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## Guest (Apr 9, 2010)

Vasnwbrder said:


> So then what would be the most effective way to progress in the park ( the correct way). I heard before that r/c do let you get away with things like spins on jumps, and much easier on rails.


Yeppo , R/C is the go for begineer / intermediate park riders and just jibbers. The whole point of Rocker is to have raised contact points so you don't catch on boxes etc , Ie you can grease spins of/on to rails and blah which on a normal camber board - it wouldn't let you get away with it and you just catch. 
Magnetraction is a good idea too because you can run your rails hella blunt and still have a good effective edge - Which a single sidecut board , which only has 2 contact points , you still need to run these sharp enough to cut through snow but with a board with 4 or more contact points (Ie: magnetraction , triradial sidecuts blah) you can dull down the edges more.

Get something preety soft and forgiving for rails if your just getting into it or looking to progress faster. But not sloppy , you still want something with snap

I'd either get a smokin or something along the lines of next year's Bataleon Evil twin...

Obviously R/C boards allow you to get away with more thus making you progress quicker but create lazy riding habits. Thats why once , you feel you have your shit on lock then get something with camber if you like to shred the whole park , that way you still have stability on jumps and predictability of rails. Having camber also forces you to land tricks cleaner and become a better rider as you can't get away with everything like you do with r/c...


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## BurtonAvenger (Aug 14, 2007)

Vasnwbrder said:


> So then what would be the most effective way to progress in the park ( the correct way). I heard before that r/c do let you get away with things like spins on jumps, and much easier on rails.


Rome said it best "No Correct Way" all the shit he's spewing at you is nothing more than hater propaganda from people that fear something that truly changes and benefits the rider. Fuck I see Eric Willet every day spinning bs 1260 doubles in Freeway on a Omatic Celebrity BS but gee guess he can't ride. Or how about Marc Hoyt and Colin Spencer 2 coaches from Woodward one that rides the Salomon Grip and the other that rides the Lib Tech Trs C2. Both are throwing multiple doubles on 100 foot gap jumps. Truth is camber is stale and makes you ride a snowboard the way it shouldn't. Steering should be underfoot which is what most RC decks are giving riders these days, with regular camber it makes you steer out at the tip and tail. Think about riding a skateboard where do you stand? Right over the trucks, right? Now where do you initiate turns? From the trucks. This is what RC does it puts the steering right from the bindings right underfoot. Yes there are ones that are sloppy soft jib noodles but there are a ton of decks you can ride all mountain perfectly fine and still send it on jumps. I ride Breck daily on only reverse hitting 20 to 30 foot jumps and multiple jibs and you know what I have a smile on my face the whole time. Personally I like riding stuff that makes snowboarding easier cause you know if we didn't progress technology we'd be riding Sims or Burtons that didn't have metal edges and using Sorels.


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## Guest (Apr 9, 2010)

^ this idea that camber-bad-rocker-good is as ridiculous and childish as rocker-bad-camber-good and posts, like this one, which seek to inflame the debate do a disservice to the discussion and the sport in general.

camber and alternate camber are simply different approaches to snowboard technology. each is a tool and, in common with any tool, they each have pros and cons. further, different people will have different preferences.

your suggestion that camber killed snowboarding and somehow prevents correct (for want of a better term) turn initiation is just laughable, polarising nonsense. but you already know this because you're not interested in a discussion, you're just interested in getting a rise and listening to the sound of your own voice. pretty easy from the comfort of a browser.

the irony of your criticising others for 'hater propaganda' is obviously lost on you and it would be funny if it weren't so sad. there are 10^6 of you on the web. you're mundane and you know it.

have a great day.

alasdair


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## Guest (Apr 9, 2010)

BurtonAvenger said:


> Rome said it best "No Correct Way" all the shit he's spewing at you is nothing more than hater propaganda from people that fear something that truly changes and benefits the rider. Fuck I see Eric Willet every day spinning bs 1260 doubles in Freeway on a Omatic Celebrity BS but gee guess he can't ride. Or how about Marc Hoyt and Colin Spencer 2 coaches from Woodward one that rides the Salomon Grip and the other that rides the Lib Tech Trs C2. Both are throwing multiple doubles on 100 foot gap jumps. Truth is camber is stale and makes you ride a snowboard the way it shouldn't. Steering should be underfoot which is what most RC decks are giving riders these days, with regular camber it makes you steer out at the tip and tail. Think about riding a skateboard where do you stand? Right over the trucks, right? Now where do you initiate turns? From the trucks. This is what RC does it puts the steering right from the bindings right underfoot. Yes there are ones that are sloppy soft jib noodles but there are a ton of decks you can ride all mountain perfectly fine and still send it on jumps. I ride Breck daily on only reverse hitting 20 to 30 foot jumps and multiple jibs and you know what I have a smile on my face the whole time. Personally I like riding stuff that makes snowboarding easier cause you know if we didn't progress technology we'd be riding Sims or Burtons that didn't have metal edges and using Sorels.


Stop name dropping , double cork this double cork that.

Both you and I know that those riders are a cut above the average and could do what they do on any snowboard given time.

You should invest in some binding suspension or step ins - they make snowboarding easier and have progress technology.


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## killclimbz (Aug 10, 2007)

discostix said:


> Stop name dropping , double cork this double cork that.
> 
> Both you and I know that those riders are a cut above the average and could do what they do on any snowboard given time.
> 
> You should invest in some binding suspension or step ins - they make snowboarding easier and have progress technology.


So because they are a cut above average and like the tech we shouldn't use it? I'm not getting your point here.


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## Guest (Apr 9, 2010)

killclimbz said:


> So because they are a cut above average and like the tech we shouldn't use it? I'm not getting your point here.


My God......


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## Guest (Apr 9, 2010)

Everyone on here is a bit touchy feely with their snowboard technologies.

Think of it this way righto.

You are strapped onto a piece of wood. It's a piece of wood that slides down the hill , it's not a formula one car is it. 

Just ride the fuckin thing and stop thinking about how it interacts with the snow. Just fuckin stand on the prick and ride the thing. It's all you


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## killclimbz (Aug 10, 2007)

If you feel that way then why the fuck are you posting in this thread? 

The point of the gear forum is to talk about this sort of thing. I guess you missed that too...


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## seant46 (Dec 8, 2009)

killclimbz said:


> If you feel that way then why the fuck are you posting in this thread?
> 
> The point of the gear forum is to talk about this sort of thing. I guess you missed that too...


yup.

10char


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## Leo (Nov 24, 2009)

discostix said:


> Everyone on here is a bit touchy feely with their snowboard technologies.
> 
> Think of it this way righto.
> 
> ...


Same shit could be said about cars. You can get your puny ass into a fucking dodge Neon and drive that shit. I personally prefer a Suburu WRX.

Your point falls short of validity disco. Sure, we can all ride a piece of wood that just slides down the hill. But the real question is: why should we? Either way we are going to blow a nice lump of cash on this shit so might as well get one with better tech that is more forgiving.

The fault of sloppy styles doesn't lie in the board, it lies in the rider. The board being forgiving can be a very good tool for progression or a tool for slops. I can land a suitcase and get away with some errors with an RC board, but that doesn't mean I am going to be satisfied with that trick. I'm going to perfect it. I just rather not have to eat more shit than I normally would on a regular camber. Same goes for learning any trick on an RC board.

A sloppy rider will be sloppy regardless of what they ride. At least with a forgiving board, they have less chance of getting injured.

By the way, I ride a camber board just so you know.


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## jitpunkia (Mar 24, 2010)

it is interesting though .. iv yet to meet anyone in real life or online .. well this is the first .. that hates on R/C so much .. very interesting

my personal opinion, it made me a better rider, it help with my confidence and it made me try stuff iv never tried before .. bottom line .. its still FTW for me


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## Guest (Apr 9, 2010)

jitpunkia said:


> it is interesting though .. iv yet to meet anyone in real life or online .. well this is the first .. that hates on R/C so much .. very interesting


interesting indeed.

i find that, as with many things in life, posts like these say so much more about the subject than they do about the object.

alasdair


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## NYCboarder (Jan 26, 2008)

BurtonAvenger said:


> Rome said it best "No Correct Way"


I love that quote.. I got those stickers with my binding.. that is one of the few stickers i Rock


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## BurtonAvenger (Aug 14, 2007)

alasdairm said:


> ^ this idea that camber-bad-rocker-good is as ridiculous and childish as rocker-bad-camber-good and posts, like this one, which seek to inflame the debate do a disservice to the discussion and the sport in general.
> 
> camber and alternate camber are simply different approaches to snowboard technology. each is a tool and, in common with any tool, they each have pros and cons. further, different people will have different preferences.
> 
> ...


If I wanted to hear my own voice I'd probably talk to myself and not answer posts on forums now wouldn't I? Let me ask you this how long have you been riding and how many decks have you ridden in your lifetime? I've ridden reverse exclusively for 3 years now and just went back on camber and you can see the differences in riding.

Oh and while you were here pissing and moaning about my post I was out riding park on a bluebird day on my rockered deck once again having fun and not carrying what I was riding. Can you say that?



discostix said:


> Stop name dropping , double cork this double cork that.
> 
> Both you and I know that those riders are a cut above the average and could do what they do on any snowboard given time.
> 
> You should invest in some binding suspension or step ins - they make snowboarding easier and have progress technology.


Wasn't name dropping citing specific examples. But your logic is so flawed so now these riders are above the rest and because they choose something that's easier they lose credibility. Your argument is so flawed and once again poses the question of do you actually snowboard or do you just arm chair warrior forums?


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## Guest (Apr 9, 2010)

BurtonAvenger said:


> If I wanted to hear my own voice I'd probably talk to myself and not answer posts on forums now wouldn't I?


not necessarily 


BurtonAvenger said:


> Let me ask you this how long have you been riding and how many decks have you ridden in your lifetime?


it's not clear to me why your question is relevant but i'll humour you. i've been riding about 7 years. i have probably owned 10 or 12 different snowboards and have probably ridden 20 or 25 different boards. i've tried alternate camber boards. i prefer regular camber boards.


BurtonAvenger said:


> I've ridden reverse exclusively for 3 years now and just went back on camber and you can see the differences in riding.


i'm sure you are correct. you prefer alt-camber, other people (myself included) prefer regular camber boards. i think you are just agreeing with me. 


BurtonAvenger said:


> Oh and while you were here pissing and moaning about my post I was out riding park on a bluebird day on my rockered deck once again having fun and not carrying what I was riding. Can you say that?


again, it's not clear to me why that's relevant and i did not realise it was a competition but, again, i'll humour you. i rode for two hours today but had to get back to work. i have ridden on 98 days this season (since november 20th). how many days do you have? why does it matter?

alasdair


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## BurtonAvenger (Aug 14, 2007)

alasdairm said:


> not necessarily
> it's not clear to me why your question is relevant but i'll humour you. i've been riding about 7 years. i have probably owned 10 or 12 different snowboards and have probably ridden 20 or 25 different boards. i've tried alternate camber boards. i prefer regular camber boards.
> i'm sure you are correct. you prefer alt-camber, other people (myself included) prefer regular camber boards. i think you are just agreeing with me.
> again, it's not clear to me why that's relevant and i did not realise it was a competition but, again, i'll humour you. i rode for two hours today but had to get back to work. i have ridden on 98 days this season (since november 20th). how many days do you have? why does it matter?
> ...


Using it to prove a point. 98% of the people on here haven't ridden more than maybe 3 boards in their life time. Yet the power of the internet gives anyone with a keyboard the ability to type a way to express that they are knowledgeable. So it opens the door to the blind leading the blind which happens. I've found that when you question how many decks a persons been on normally it's very few and far between so they're comprehension of the tech involved is limited. Add to that not many days on snow and like I mentioned blind leading the blind. 

In my post that seems to set you off I said it best in the very first sentence, No Correct Way. I was just putting my .02 cents out there as to what the truths are about R.C. tech. 3 years of riding it exclusively has shown me a lot of the short comings with Camber and Reverse if a company jumps into it. I've literally ridden hundreds of decks from all forms of alternate and stock camber. Camber does have a lot of limitations that have been squashed with R.C and a ton of companies have come a long way in making it so camber is going to be fully replaced for now, 15 years from now someone will say remember camber lets bring it back. Circle of life in the snowboard industry. Can't remember who said this to me but this is a quote that rings true about r.c., " anyone can make a r.c. board that's good on jibs or in pow, but the real challenge is making a r.c. board that you can ride the whole mountain with". Essentially when R.c. came out you had the WWW rocker and the Banana that was it. I still hate the Banana to this day but then again it was a jib stick as was the WWW now we have decks that you can boost a 50 foot gap jump and then slash a pow turn while venturing into the park and pressing a box. Camber can do all that stuff too but it doesn't make it as easy. Maybe it's the fact I'm not a teenager anymore or perhaps it's the fact I want more fun and less effort out of things that has me supporting R.C. But for now I can tell you it's not going anywhere and if it hadn't been created the stagnation of the snowboard industry would still be going full steam ahead.

Today was day 123 first day of the season was I believe October 12th, can't really remember and I'll finish the season out around June 7thish.


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## NYCboarder (Jan 26, 2008)

I may be off but it seems like your talking about pure camber vs. pure reverse cambered boards.

What is everyones take on neversummers tech since it incorporates both?


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## Guest (Apr 10, 2010)

Never summer have done it right , wasn't their idea but - Inca came up with it first. Pretty rogue brand that one , had some ideas but their graphics looked like they should be on a suncreen bottle not a snowboard.

But remember I sit on my computer all day playing warcraft and sitting on this forum talking shit


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## NYCboarder (Jan 26, 2008)

Most people know Inca came up with the idea. However, you did not put any info on if you rode it before, how it handles, etc.. that was the question i initially asked


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## BurtonAvenger (Aug 14, 2007)

Inca is dual camber under foot similar to Nitro's Gullwing what NS did is put a micro camber out in the tips with a full reverse between the feet. The Angry Snowboarder Blog Archive Dualing Camber there you go


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## NYCboarder (Jan 26, 2008)

i know what it is i own an EVO-R. Just havent had a chance to take it out yet this season. thats why i asked whats your opinion on it... again its the question i initially asked


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## BurtonAvenger (Aug 14, 2007)

Wasn't answering your question was just pointing out that Inca's dual camber is not anywhere near what NS did. If you want to know what I think of it I suggest just reading my site and the numerous posts I've answered where I talk about it.


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## Guest (Apr 10, 2010)

BurtonAvenger said:


> Using it to prove a point. 98% of the people on here haven't ridden more than maybe 3 boards in their life time. Yet the power of the internet gives anyone with a keyboard the ability to type a way to express that they are knowledgeable. So it opens the door to the blind leading the blind which happens. I've found that when you question how many decks a persons been on normally it's very few and far between so they're comprehension of the tech involved is limited. Add to that not many days on snow and like I mentioned blind leading the blind.


i understand. thanks. i work in a ski/ride school at a major resort in tahoe. not only do i get out to ride almost every day, i'm around snowboarders, level i, ii & iii snowboard instructors and aasi examiners all the time. when we're not riding, we're sitting around discussing technique, training, ma, progressions, equipment, etc. endlessly.


BurtonAvenger said:


> In my post that seems to set you off I said it best in the very first sentence, No Correct Way.


i think we agree on this. at first, to me, it seemed like you were simply putting down camber generally the way the other poster was putting down alt-camber generally. hence my response.


BurtonAvenger said:


> Camber does have a lot of limitations that have been squashed with R.C and a ton of companies have come a long way in making it so camber is going to be fully replaced for now...


perhaps but i doubt it given how entrenched camber is. camber still makes sense for a lot of reasons. further, i see a lot of people blaming (camber)equipment for problems which are, more likely, deficiencies in their technique.


BurtonAvenger said:


> But for now I can tell you it's not going anywhere and if it hadn't been created the stagnation of the snowboard industry would still be going full steam ahead.


i agree alt-camber's not going anywhere and i think that's great. one man's "stagnant" industry is another's "ain't broke so don't fix" industry...


BurtonAvenger said:


> Today was day 123 first day of the season was I believe October 12th, can't really remember and I'll finish the season out around June 7thish.


cool.

regards

alasdair


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## Reede (Feb 16, 2009)

Why do people get so defensive about this argument? It boggles my mind.

I have traditional camber boards, the challenge with RC as mentioned earlier by BA is to make a board that is stable while charging. Stability at speed and edge grip on ice being my main criteria for my next board which I plan to buy probably after this coming Australian winter. At this stage it looks like i'll be getting either a Custom-X or a T6 (Got EST bindings, kinda stuck with Burton)

Is there such a thing as a RC board that will honestly be as safe on icy steeps as either of these boards or other brands equivalents? Because until that is conclusively proven, camber will still have a place.

And to the guy saying that RC is cheating because it makes things too easy? I cant believe i'm even dignifying that comment but tell me who is stupider, the guy who makes things easier for himself or the one that deliberately makes it harder to achieve the same result, I can certainly tell you which one is gonna be getting the job promotion back in the real world.

Even tho I only have cambered boards at present, there is definitely place for a RC board in my quiver. I just havent developed a great enough need for one yet (ie: I don't ride boxes and rails, I only freeride and hit jumps)


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## Guest (Apr 11, 2010)

Reede said:


> Why do people get so defensive about this argument? It boggles my mind.


it's pretty straightforward. generally speaking, people on the internet take comments way too personally.

often, when person a says "_i don't like your snowboard/binding/boot/jacket/whatever choice_", person b hears "_i don't like you_". it typically spirals downwards from there.

alasdair


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## Leo (Nov 24, 2009)

alasdairm said:


> it's pretty straightforward. generally speaking, people on the internet take comments way too personally.
> 
> often, when person a says "_i don't like your snowboard/binding/boot/jacket/whatever choice_", person b hears "_i don't like you_". it typically spirals downwards from there.
> 
> alasdair


I hate all of you 

Look towards the 2011 K2 Turbo Dream if you want to dabble in RC tech for all-mountain use. I live in Michigan and ice surfing is the norm around here. The 2011 TD has harshmellow which keeps it real stable on the steeps. As for ice, it works good enough on it. If you want a board for purely charging icey steeps, look into the 2011 Rossignol One Magtek. Combination camber/rocker with magnetraction. The board is uglier than my dog's diarrhea, but man, does that thing rip. Super affordable too.


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## rasmasyean (Jan 26, 2008)

discostix said:


> Reverse camber / alternate camber is lame. It's like riding a bike with training wheels. Same with Magne traction - all these things create bad riding habits ie Let you get away with things - hiddious things , sloppy things that you wouldn't get away with normally. Bad style.
> 
> When your board lets you get away with things like landing 90 degress to you landing , it's bad. When the time comes to step it up on bigger jumps , that reliance on your boards technology to do the job is very sketchy. And more often than not you'll eat shit trying to grease that last spin around.
> 
> Unless you like to fold your board in half on jumps or do wwwwwwwickeeeed over-vert roll on nose presses then why don't you just buy something thats got some shape to it , not a big slab of shit like what Mervin is producing.


So is using shaped skis. Because if you want to be a real skier, you must use straight skis all the way, so you will work those muscles and skid every arced turn…the way it’s supposed to be done. Eskimos have been doing that for 1000 years before all these stupid inventions…so they must know. They know how to really ski as a result of it. If they entered the Olympics, hell, they would win every event. But since they don’t use communications technology much, they don’t know about it.


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## rasmasyean (Jan 26, 2008)

Vasnwbrder said:


> So then what would be the most effective way to progress in the park ( the correct way). I heard before that r/c do let you get away with things like spins on jumps, and much easier on rails.


RC doesn’t let you “get away with spins” on jumps if you are doing fast rotations and want to lock that stop on landing. It does make it “spin out” more rather than edge catch and slam you if you’re off. So if you’re a competition grader 60 ft 1080 rider, go camber. 

The truth is that despite what people say about how much it affects their spins here…most people are not near that level of “spinning” or “jumping” for that to matter a whole lot. Until Discostix posts some videos of himself doing these rad tricks, take his word with caution. If you are basically doing slow spins and small jumps, you won’t have to adjust your riding all that much to land a jump “on stomp” on an RC board. Unless it’s like really really RC’ed them maybe it will feel a little washy.


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## rasmasyean (Jan 26, 2008)

alasdairm said:


> it's pretty straightforward. generally speaking, people on the internet take comments way too personally.
> 
> often, when person a says "_i don't like your snowboard/binding/boot/jacket/whatever choice_", person b hears "_i don't like you_". it typically spirals downwards from there.
> 
> alasdair



It’s because on “the internet” no one can punch you in the face through your monitor…so everyone speaks their mind…or just plainly BS’s to flame an argument for kicks. 

In RL, this is not so, so people are more “political” about it so they don’t hurt your feelings. But the exception is if they are adolescent and bigger than you or have more friends, they might speak their mind to you anyway. This also stops when they learn to chill out or after they get put in the hospital for it. lol


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## rasmasyean (Jan 26, 2008)

Here's good a desctiption.
YouTube - (skate banana) Camber and Reverse Camber snowboard technology

The other option that is "in between" is dual camber.
This is more like the "ski effect" in terms of turing because it puts camber between each foot...as opposed to regular camber which treats the snowboard as having one giant foot between the bindings.


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## n2i1c3k7 (Jun 23, 2009)

how does reverse camber help with edge catching? because when you are strapped in the board goes flat right?


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## Leo (Nov 24, 2009)

n2i1c3k7 said:


> how does reverse camber help with edge catching? because when you are strapped in the board goes flat right?


The board goes flat, but the board isn't just shaped like a banana from the side. If you look at a rocker board vertically, it will have a slight U shape to it as well. So unless you are exerting force at all the contact points, then no, the board won't be completely flat. Furthermore, the board will not flex on flat land the same way it will when riding powder or other types of snow. The snow underneath it won't be solid like your living room floor.

Here's yet another way to look at things. Imagine standing on top of an upside down U shaped piece of wood. You flatten out pretty good in the middle right? Imagine flipping over that same piece of wood so it is U shaped and imagine standing on that. What happens to the middle and tip and tail?


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## rasmasyean (Jan 26, 2008)

n2i1c3k7 said:


> how does reverse camber help with edge catching? because when you are strapped in the board goes flat right?


Some shapes make the tip and tail raise even when you stand on it.
But even the ones that flatten out don't exert as much force on the snow and "digs in" less when you stand on it. And if you're like in the back seat, the board has a tendancy to raise more easily off the snow rather than stay flat.


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## n2i1c3k7 (Jun 23, 2009)

oh ok, it still seems like tbt would reduce edge catching the most though.


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## rasmasyean (Jan 26, 2008)

Reede said:


> Is there such a thing as a RC board that will honestly be as safe on icy steeps as either of these boards or other brands equivalents? Because until that is conclusively proven, camber will still have a place.


I think a board with magnetraction edges will beat those boards. Whether the RC makes it worse than a C version, I can't say.


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## BurtonAvenger (Aug 14, 2007)

Reede said:


> Is there such a thing as a RC board that will honestly be as safe on icy steeps as either of these boards or other brands equivalents? Because until that is conclusively proven, camber will still have a place.


Yeah there's actually a bunch I've been riding. The 2011 Arbor Coda with grip tech does that, all the never summer decks with the vario grip well, Ellis Eecco with the dip and grip edge and reverse is solid as well. 0 camber boards are 100% edge hold as well. It's just a matter of what do you want to get from the deck and what do you want to give up to get that. There is no such thing as the perfect board for every condition and that's a fact.


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## rasmasyean (Jan 26, 2008)

Snowolf said:


> I believe you are right in your statement that camber will always have a place.


It’s funny that you should say that…because just a little while ago normally it would have been…

"I believe you are right in your statement that *reverse *camber will always have a place."


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## Guest (Apr 13, 2010)

Here's my very well informed and un-bias understanding. A guide to snowboard teck:

Camber - Traditional snowboard shape, contact points at each ends. Hold and edge averagely and has average pop.

Reverse camber, ata: rocker - The opposite of camber. Lacks camber's control and sometimes compensated with magnatraction. Has less pop than camber, but it said to have a more fun feel, it floats in powder better and catches less edges. Also note that the differences between rocker and camber really arn't that dramatic.

Zero base - Literally in between rocker and camber.

Rocker and camber tech - Never summer exclusive, is rocker with cambered ends, acts similar to magnatraction rocker, having multiple contact points at the center and ends. It holds near camber controle and keeps the fun of rocker. Considered "the best of both worlds" RC tech is a good compensation between rocker and camber.

Triple base technology - Patented by Bataleon and is cheating. It's way too good at everything to be fair. There's a special place in hell for those who ride bataleon, damn Austrians.


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## BurtonAvenger (Aug 14, 2007)

How the hell is that unbiased and most of what you said doesn't even make that much sense.


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## rasmasyean (Jan 26, 2008)

lVlatt said:


> Here's my very well informed and un-bias understanding. A guide to snowboard teck:
> 
> Camber - Traditional snowboard shape, contact points at each ends. Hold and edge averagely and has average pop.
> 
> ...


Lib Tech's C2 BTX is also rocker and camber shaped. 

I've heard that Triple base technology makes the board wobbly at certain phases of a turn at higher speeds. And that turning is somewhat harder as well when carving.

Also, Burton's "scoop" is similar in principle to TBT. Just more smooth rather than "fasceted".


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