# Toe ramps, cushioning and the Salomon Defenders



## eelpout (Mar 1, 2009)

Just received a set of the new Salomon Defenders. Looking forward to trying them out this season.

One thing was a bit of a puzzlement though: the cushioning on the base plate.

Here is a screen grab of a demo unit Salomon was showing in the spring, note the toe ramp on the bottom at left:










Now look at the sole of one from the pair I received:










Notice there is no cushioning underneath the toe ramp. Interesting.

Salomon apparently _does _use toe ramp cushioning on their production higher end Shadow Fit units like the Hologram and Quantum (you can find pics/vids online). 

At first I thought it was accidentally left off, then I found a video of a rep talking about the District a couple years ago, which has no cushioning underneath. He said it's because they wanted to "reduce the base plate area... for more natural board flex." 

I asked the retail shop about it after I discovered this and they were a bit mystified as well and intend to talk to Salomon about it this week.

So, what do people think is going on here? Feedback from spring demos and pros who tried it saying the cushioning wasn't needed or diminished the feel of it? Cost reduction?


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## TimelessDescent (Oct 26, 2014)

Ive never had padded toe ramps on any of my bindings so I wouldnt know what the benefits would be. Most of my boards past and present are pretty damp so its prob better if my toe ramps have direct contact with my board.

On a side note...I used to extend my adjustable toe ramps out towards the edge thinking I would have more leverage in a toe side turn. What I found out through trial and error was that my board had a more natural flex and roll when transtioning in and out of turns when my toe ramp wasnt extended as close the the edge. I ride mens large bindings and right now I think my toe ramp is all the way in...maybe one click towards the toe edge but thats it. This may not be the case for everyone but I thought I would share. (For reference i wear 10.5 size boot in a large binding on a directional freeride board with a 25.3 waist width.)


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## SkullAndXbones (Feb 24, 2014)

the thing that looks off to me about it is it looks like there's a spot to put a pad so i'm not sure why it would be designed that way if it's not supposed to have one. my rome targa bindings have rubber padding under the bindings that cover the whole base. that plus the canting pads make them very comfortable bindings IMO. i never feel any chatter under my boots and they are still very lively and responsive.


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## TimelessDescent (Oct 26, 2014)

SkullAndXbones said:


> the thing that looks off to me about it is it looks like there's a spot to put a pad so i'm not sure why it would be designed that way if it's not supposed to have one. my rome targa bindings have rubber padding under the bindings that cover the whole base. that plus the canting pads make them very comfortable bindings IMO. i never feel any chatter under my boots and they are still very lively and responsive.



I have padding under my bindings and whole base as well. thats where most of the shock absorption and weight will be. Having padding under the toe ramps is unnecessary for the most part as the adjustable toe ramp is only there to provide leverage.


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## eelpout (Mar 1, 2009)

SkullAndXbones said:


> the thing that looks off to me about it is it looks like there's a spot to put a pad so i'm not sure why it would be designed that way if it's not supposed to have one.


It looks off to me too, but there is already precedent for it. The Salomon District is the same way with a "naked" toe ramp and has been out for a couple years.









Just curious why Salomon has a pad on toe of some bindings, but not others. i.e. the Hologram:


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## TimelessDescent (Oct 26, 2014)

I think the reasoning is pretty straightforward and youve answered your own question. Any extra padding will add more shock absorption...that should be obvious. On a more expensive model it would be considered an upgrade i suppose. Its up to you to decide if you think its necessary to have it for your ride. 

If I was as concerned about it as you...I would find a piece of rubber equivalent to the thickness of the rest of the padding on your bindings and cut it to fit under your toe ramp.


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## eelpout (Mar 1, 2009)

TimelessDescent said:


> I think the reasoning is pretty straightforward and youve answered your own question. Any extra padding will add more shock absorption...that should be obvious. On a more expensive model it would be considered an upgrade i suppose.


yeah, sure you're right. since the Defender is a bit stiffer model, that would sit below the Quantum. And they likely wanted to leave some reasons to spend that extra $90.

It still would be nice for Salomon to explain why they had the extra rubber piece on the demos in the spring and then decided to remove it.


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## Mizu Kuma (Apr 13, 2014)

By the pics it looks to me like the ramps that don't have the full padding have some sort of different material on the 3 lugs along with the "W" shaped support?????

Does the ramp sit flush to the deck when it's bolted on, or does it look like it needs a shim in order to make it a tighter fit?????

If the "W" is padded, it might be a way to limit the amount of potential damage to the "older styled" full wrap padded toe ramp when it's hanging off the edge of the board?????


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## Fewdfreak (May 13, 2013)

Not sure on the Salomons but I know that Burton Cartel's ReFlex version from 2013 to 2014 went from having a solid like hard plastic toe ramp underside to having the softer foam pad. I suppose to increase plush feel or save cost but I wonder if will noticeably decrease response? I haven't ridden yet. Like others have said might have been a prototype in the preproduction models that didn't pass muster in the final release.


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## Ravaging Rami (Mar 11, 2014)

Fewdfreak said:


> Not sure on the Salomons but I know that Burton Cartel's ReFlex version from 2013 to 2014 went from having a solid like hard plastic toe ramp underside to having the softer foam pad. I suppose to increase plush feel or save cost but I wonder if will noticeably decrease response? I haven't ridden yet. Like others have said might have been a prototype in the preproduction models that didn't pass muster in the final release.


I read that some were complaining about too much felt chatter under toes so they switched it, it could have also been to make it more plush.


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## eelpout (Mar 1, 2009)

Mizu Kuma said:


> By the pics it looks to me like the ramps that don't have the full padding have some sort of different material on the 3 lugs along with the "W" shaped support?????


the yellow toe part is all one piece of hard plastic.



Mizu Kuma said:


> Does the ramp sit flush to the deck when it's bolted on, or does it look like it needs a shim in order to make it a tighter fit?????


hope you can see from picture I just took, it's not flush and _just _floats above the surface (see the shadow underneath). Does it matter? I don't know, put any pressure on the toe ramp and it's going to press against the board. but is there a gap? yes.


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## SkullAndXbones (Feb 24, 2014)

yeah that's a weird design. what if you're riding in powder and you get snow all jammed up in there?


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## Mizu Kuma (Apr 13, 2014)

By the look of that gap it was designed to have the padding on it!!!!!

I'd say that they've fucked up and left yours off by mistake!!!!!


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## eelpout (Mar 1, 2009)

So I heard back from the dealer this morning, he talked to his Salomon rep and said they did indeed drop the underneath toe padding from demo units to production on The Defender. No explanation as to why was given though.

My guess is, as was surmised earlier, it's a marketing thing to make the Hologram and Quantum more _plush_. I do wonder though if this might alter any reviewer's opinion slightly which was based upon the demo units.

I'm not going to sweat it too much because I've since seen a bunch of other brand bindings that have floating ramps like this. I just never noticed before as bindings I've owned weren't this way. Pressure for "toe-side" mostly comes from the ball of the foot anyway.


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