# Jones vs Never Summer



## BigmountainVMD (Oct 9, 2011)

The Raptor is not a powder specific deck.


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## hktrdr (Apr 3, 2012)

BigmountainVMD said:


> The Raptor is not a powder specific deck.


That. And the Flagship not really either.


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## JT704 (Apr 3, 2013)

charles_r_cox said:


> Want to get a strickly pow slayer for next season, and I have pretty much narrowed it down to two. Looking at the Jones Carbon Flagship and the Never Summer Raptor X. Anyone ride either, and/or have any comments?


 Jones Hovercraft!


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## BigmountainVMD (Oct 9, 2011)

I feel like these threads happen often. "I want a pow specific deck, that can also carve hard on groomers but it soft enough to take in the park..." :dunno:

Depends on what you want OP, if you really only want to ride pow with this board, the options you mentioned are not the best choices.


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## charles_r_cox (Oct 30, 2012)

Nope no plans for park, but yes groomers. Wasn't really looking at the Hovercraft because I like having the multi-directional board.


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## karkis (Jan 8, 2013)

the raptor does slay pow pows
it's not exactly a twin tip tho


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## charles_r_cox (Oct 30, 2012)

Yeah, and I also know that I'm not going to be centered on the board, but set back. I like having that safety net of being able to go switch long enough to get back around if I get spun around, crash, or something.


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## hktrdr (Apr 3, 2012)

karkis said:


> the raptor does slay pow pows
> it's not exactly a twin tip tho


Raptor is not terrible in pow, but it is far from a real pow deck. Good board, but not a pow slayer.


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## longboardsrule (Dec 6, 2012)

charles_r_cox said:


> Yeah, and I also know that I'm not going to be centered on the board, but set back. I like having that safety net of being able to go switch long enough to get back around if I get spun around, crash, or something.


The raptor does not ride switch all that well, if you only need to ride switch for the situation what you described above it would be great. But doing some top to bottom switch runs you will find it is pretty twitchy. Other than that it is great for pow, crud and groomers.


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## karkis (Jan 8, 2013)

hktrdr said:


> Raptor is not terrible in pow, but it is far from a real pow deck. Good board, but not a pow slayer.


yah i get that its not tapered, swallowtail, whatever, its a charging deck.... and the best charging is thru powder!!
the OP's looking for something that can ride both ways, there's not much with more pow specific features that goes both ways.

if you can't slay pow on a raptor, it's likely the problem is you, not the board

works for me anyway
2cents...


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## linvillegorge (Jul 6, 2009)

Charlie Slasher


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## ShredLife (Feb 6, 2010)

i am the rooster king.


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## KIRKRIDER (Mar 18, 2008)

Still have to properly test the 'Craft on feet of powder. But that thing floats like a cloud.


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## charles_r_cox (Oct 30, 2012)

I did look at the Summit and Premier, but from what I could tell they didn't have a wide option...size 13 boots


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## snowklinger (Aug 30, 2011)

Snowolf said:


> I am riding every board in the NS line. *If it is strictly a powder board that you are after, the Summit is what you want*. As for Jones, I think the Hovercraft is the one you want.
> 
> The Raptor does ride powder effortlessly and has the added benefit of being super damp for better handling in crud and hard surface conditions. Personally, I feel that the Premier is a little better ride in powder than the Raptor due to be a little softer flex and less damp but that is really personal preference.
> 
> Also, the Raptor does ride switch very well as does the Premier once the rider dials in the feel. The Summit rides switch well on firmer groomed terrain but not so well in powder or deep spring slush.


Isn't the Cobra a pow deck?


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

Hmmm... I can only give impressions on the 2013 Flagship and Raptor (not carbon, not X). I ride a 158 Flagship and my husband a 164 Raptor. We've taken then into a lot of pow this season and we've both tried each others boards. I'm VERY happy with the Flagship in pow, even in 40cm deep. Very good float, (well, it's pretty long for my weight), very fast, very stable, super responsive (and I like that it's a hybrid camber ) Cons: a rather tiring ride in choppy afternoon groomers. It won't absorb bumps. Null. zero. Here you'll find the big advantage of the Raptor: it's very well dampened and agile in moguls. I love my Flagship on morning groomers but also found the Raptor to be big fun to carve, thought I don't like the Rocker while straight lining... Hubby would prefere to have a Flagship for carving since its stiffer but makes pencil line carves with the Raptor too. We both prefer the Raptor in the afternoon crud 

I'd say, the Flagship is more specialized. I take it for pow days and on cold groomer days. In such conditions it is PHANTASTIC, it's stability was the most striking quality. But it's bitchy elsewhere. For spring crud mogul days I got a softer backup board. The Raptor is more of an all day board.


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## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

Neither? Regular Flagship over carbon. You don't need a carbon Flagship. No one does.

K2 Ultra Dream. Still one of the best freeride/pow boards I've ridden. Or maybe a YES PYL? I just don't like Magne. And for a pow board why would you need it anyway?


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

Nivek said:


> You don't need a carbon Flagship. No one does.


Why not? Wouldn't the weight reduction be an advantage?


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## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

For what? Hiking? Sure, if you're hiking multiple miles. Then again people have been doing it just fine for like ever with boards that aren't a full carbon topsheet. You save what, maybe like half a pound? Take the extra $400 you'd save and get a gym membership and get stronger. You'll save more weight in a hiking situation if you take a shit before you head out.

If you're putting yourself into crazy ascent situations like Jones then the weight savings can make a difference. You're not. And it will be a lot less painful for you if you sharkfin your new deck if it's the regular and not the carbon.


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## hktrdr (Apr 3, 2012)

snowklinger said:


> Isn't the Cobra a pow deck?


Not even close. It is an all-mountain deck with a couple of somewhat pow friendly aspects.
In Japan it is a groomer board...


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## hktrdr (Apr 3, 2012)

Nivek said:


> For what? Hiking? Sure, if you're hiking multiple miles. Then again people have been doing it just fine for like ever with boards that aren't a full carbon topsheet. You save what, maybe like half a pound? Take the extra $400 you'd save and get a gym membership and get stronger. You'll save more weight in a hiking situation if you take a shit before you head out.
> 
> If you're putting yourself into crazy ascent situations like Jones then the weight savings can make a difference. You're not. And it will be a lot less painful for you if you sharkfin your new deck if it's the regular and not the carbon.


+1, exactly that. Plus for most people the bindings and boots weight more than the board, so the overall savings are absolutely negligible.


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## hktrdr (Apr 3, 2012)

Snowolf said:


> No. The Cobra was partially a direct result of my feedback to Vince about the way that the Heritage handled heavy, wet PNW "powder". Neversummer made the Cobra with handling characteristics very similar to the Heritage but added an spade shaped tail and a slightly longer transition in the nose and a little more upturn in the nose to make it "friendlier" in our wet "powder". Yes, it kills it in the powder for what it is; an all mountain freestyle deck but the Priemier and the Summit still out perform it in powder.


Agree with pretty much all of that. NS calls the Cobra an all-mountain _freeride_ board, but I think that is mostly semantics. I actually felt it was similar to the Premier in pow (assuming matching sizes) - I can see how the damp Premier would be better in the chopped stuff, but I do not encounter much of that in Japan 
Summit is definitely way better than either.



Snowolf said:


> Neversummer really does not yet have a true powder specific board like a Jones Hovercraft or other brands that make truly powder specific decks but they do very very well in powder for what they are....:thumbsup:


Again, completely agree. Really wish they had a short, surfy stick like a Fish, 420, etc. but not sure how that would fit in with their philosophy.
I would love to try the NS swallowtail or at least hear more about it - but have never seen one in person, let alone ridden one...


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## FractureItAll (Dec 2, 2013)

Cant and wait to ride a Never summer Heritage this winter, but id personally say never summer as their 3 year warranty really can't be beat.


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## theprocess (Sep 9, 2013)

Whiskey has 154 Flagship (2012 Nidecker) going for $280 right now.


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## RickB (Oct 29, 2008)

i just remembered that i rode a cobra on a nice powder day last year but it wasnt in japan so i should probably slit my own throat and die run on sentence dot com


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## ridinbend (Aug 2, 2012)

charles_r_cox said:


> Nope no plans for park, but yes groomers. Wasn't really looking at the Hovercraft because I like having the multi-directional board.


Get a Salomon Sick Stick. It's a twin, but it sure as hell rides like a surfy pow slayer. Just finished an epic pow session at Bachy. Love that board!


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