# chattering heelside carve :(



## Music Moves (Jan 23, 2009)

I'm assuming you're riding hard pack/groomers?


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## shirtandnopants (Feb 11, 2011)

Music Moves said:


> I'm assuming your riding hard pack/groomers?


yup this happens more often on hard packed/groomed. Pow makes it a lot easier though i usually scarve through it


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## shirtandnopants (Feb 11, 2011)

Snowolf said:


> Harpack and ice is tricky to hold an edge at the bottom of the turn when carving. All forces come together here to want to throw the board to the outside of the turn...gravity, momentum and centrifugal force. A few things you can do to help increase your edge hold here:
> 
> *More angulation, less inclination:* The more you incline (lean) your body toward the inside of the turn, the more force is directed to the outside of the turn horizontally. This adds more stress to your edge hold. By using more angulation of the ankles, knees and hips. you can maintain the high edge angles needed for good carving, yet keep you body over the top of the board exerting all force vertically down onto your edge thus providing superior edge hold.
> 
> ...


cheers i'll try that when im up next. Sprained both my wrists yesterday so outta the game for at least 5 days


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## BliND KiNK (Feb 22, 2010)

do you have any forward lean on your bindings? that will help a lot.. I ride with no forward lean and have this problem.. but two notches of forward lean and I hold them much easier.... but giving lessons with forward lean is a big no no for me.


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## KIRKRIDER (Mar 18, 2008)

BliND KiNK said:


> do you have any forward lean on your bindings? that will help a lot.. I ride with no forward lean and have this problem.. but two notches of forward lean and I hold them much easier.... but giving lessons with forward lean is a big no no for me.


same question...


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## shirtandnopants (Feb 11, 2011)

BliND KiNK said:


> do you have any forward lean on your bindings? that will help a lot.. I ride with no forward lean and have this problem.. but two notches of forward lean and I hold them much easier.... but giving lessons with forward lean is a big no no for me.


No they're in the most upgright position possible. I'll give it a shot next session if my carving doesn't improve with practice


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## BliND KiNK (Feb 22, 2010)

...Well hell, look at it like this... you are using your equipment against you instead of for you.. I say instead of practicing you just change the settings to give you some forward lean... take a few runs and see if it doesn't help tremendously the way I believe it will... and if I'm wrong then you can come back and say hey kink you were wrong... then I will find where you live, because I'm never wrong


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## shirtandnopants (Feb 11, 2011)

BliND KiNK said:


> ...Well hell, look at it like this... you are using your equipment against you instead of for you.. I say instead of practicing you just change the settings to give you some forward lean... take a few runs and see if it doesn't help tremendously the way I believe it will... and if I'm wrong then you can come back and say hey kink you were wrong... then I will find where you live, because I'm never wrong


I live up on a mountain in a cave :cheeky4: 

when would you have your bindings not giving you any front lean?


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## BliND KiNK (Feb 22, 2010)

shirtandnopants said:


> I live up on a mountain in a cave :cheeky4:
> 
> when would you have your bindings not giving you any front lean?


The reason why I wouldn't is for if I'm in the terrain park... I can't balance as well with forward lean on... maybe the whole flat footed thing... not sure yet.. but giving lessons you have to stop and stand a lot while explaining things to your students ( if you will ). The only drawback of forward lean on your bindings is that it will wear you down a little faster, that's why I say find a medium to where you can do your carves but not fatigue your legs too much.

And no I don't mean forward lean will make you take one run and want to go home, you just have to take time and build up those muscles just like any other ones you've developed


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## Alexander (Apr 7, 2008)

Sorry to hijack the thread, but quick question for carving with duck stance. Where should my back knee be? As normal in duck stance or semi-aimed towards the front of the board?


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## jlm1976 (Feb 26, 2009)

Alexander said:


> Sorry to hijack the thread, but quick question for carving with duck stance. Where should my back knee be? As normal in duck stance or semi-aimed towards the front of the board?


 You'll want to have your shoulders and hips rotated to the inside of the turn which will re orient your back knee a little more forward. But I wouldn't actively turn the back knee towards the front of the board or tuck it towards your front knee. This will take pressure off the back half of the board and be more likely to generate skid. If you feel like you need more pressure forward, it probably means that you aren't moving your weight forward far enough at the start of the turn or that you are moving your weight back too soon in your turn. For really aggressive heelsides in duck stance I find that I need to leave my weight forward longer in my turn than when on toeside.


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## BliND KiNK (Feb 22, 2010)

Having it rotated forward could cause you to put too much weight on it at an unnatural angle... resulting in a knee injury... meniscus I believe.. no for carving if you are -15/15 or regular 15/-15 concentrate on not twisting that back knee too much.

I did it for a while and have a bad left knee.. and after a day of riding like that I could barely walk the next day.

So tl;dr no.


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## jdang307 (Feb 6, 2011)

Snowolf said:


> I will second Kink's advice here. Always take advantage of your equipment options to assist your riding. Forward lean is huge in maintaining good, responsive heelside turns. Ironically it also helps your toeside too. The main reason for this is it allows you to maintain higher edge angle heelside without inclination (leaning back) thus keeps the edge locked in with your weight stacked over the board. It helps toeside because it tends to force you to ride with the knees bent and in a better athletic stance.
> 
> Forward lean for freeride and none for park; especially jibbing where unwanted edging is super bad.


Interesting. What do you recommend for forward lean? I've always had it straight back. Medium? Max? I mostly freeride getting good at it, not many jumps ... yet.


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## BliND KiNK (Feb 22, 2010)

-.- I need a prestige so people ask my advice, I'll give it time... I would say adjust it slowly towards the max taking a run in between each adjustment... depending on your bindings this should be relatively quick... and just keep doing it until you find a good setting for you or when you notice the skid is lessening from the heelside carves. :thumbsup:


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## BCBoarder (Dec 19, 2016)

Great thread I thought I'd resurrect as I'm early intermediate skill level and working on heelside carving. 

My understanding is that we have an anatomical deficit with heel flexion and stacking our weight over the heelside edge. I've heard people say for heelside 'Sit in the Chair'. 
On toeside I feel like I can carve even uphill toward the end of the turn, but for heelside - no love. I'm trying to get as much angle as possible, stacking my weight but end up either washing out or falling. I'm also unsure as to when I should initiate the heelside carve as sometimes if I've gone toeside to be practically perpendicular to the fall line, it feels like not enough pressure to stay on edge. (maybe need to keep more speed?) I like to carve upwards on the hill (to about perpendicular to fall line) near end of my turns to manage my speed as I'm trying to avoid skidding.

Any other tips to get my heelside carving to approximate my toeside? (I've already adjusted forward lean significantly and it really helps as well as trying to keep my knees 'soft' and bent)

Thanks in advance.


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## BCBoarder (Dec 19, 2016)

Maybe this is the part I'm having trouble with:
"Work the top of the turn: Complete each turn to manage speed and make the edge change earlier so you get your new edge set before the board enters into the fall line. By working the top of the turn, you can get the edge engaged early and even use the top of the turn to do a little braking early so you don not enter the bottom of the turn with so much force."

Am I understanding it right that when initiating the turn I have to get on edge early and start with much more weight forward on my board, and increasingly toward the back of the board as the turn progresses? Hard to wrap my head around all this.


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## jae (Nov 27, 2015)

at this point it's better to create a new thread. if you were going to necro a post, necro this one http://www.snowboardingforum.com/ti...ng/205385-how-not-jackhammer-carved-turn.html hope it helps you out.


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## BCBoarder (Dec 19, 2016)

Awesome thread - bookmarked. Thanks!


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