# Shovel and probe choices..?



## ShredLife (Feb 6, 2010)

first off, this: RECALL CAMPAIGN 3+ AVALANCHE TRANSCEIVER

shovel, fine. probe, personally i prefer a 320cm.


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## Slush Puppie (Aug 15, 2011)

Thanks for the heads up, mine's not affected I checked before purchasing.

I read that longer than 300cm is only really worthwhile for organised rescues/probe lines?


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## ShredLife (Feb 6, 2010)

Slush Puppie said:


> I read that longer than 300cm is only really worthwhile for organised rescues/probe lines?


that sounds ridiculous. 

it really depends on your snowpack where you are riding. continental snow never gets as deep as coastal stuff so the slides won't be as deep. its a personal decision. for me i'd easily rather carry a slightly longer, beefier and consequently heavier probe because in the event i have to ever use it it will be during a class 11 shitstorm and i'd much rather err on the side of being prepared. 

these are tools to save a life. not worth it for me to use the bare minimum.


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## Slush Puppie (Aug 15, 2011)

I'm sure it can't hurt too much to have a 3m+ one, though pretty much all of the info I've read so far (in the links stuck above) and on European based sites suggest 2.40m is the ideal length a personal pack. Covering typical burial depths comfortably while being easier to deploy and handle. Longer, heavier duty being best for more frequent use applications such as organised search teams. To me this does seem like intuitive advice.

Some sources
Probes | Henry's Avalanche Talk
Avalanche Probes - Snowshepherd
http://www.avalanche.ca/adx/aspx/ad...2fa&Filename=Manuel+Genswein+probe+review.pdf

I'd be interested to here some more perspectives on this before proceeding.


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## killclimbz (Aug 10, 2007)

Get a carbon 300cm probe if you are worried about the weight. If the shit hits the fan the longer probe isn't always about depth. If you have a 240 cm probe and your victim is buried say around 200 centimeters. When you are probing, it is a lot more work to probe all the way down. You're bending over much more and such. With a 300 centimeter probe it's just a little easier. It's not necessary, a 240 will work, just a thought for you. As far as deploying goes. If you are having problems deploying your probe, you need to practice with it more. Regardless of length. 

For the shovel, make sure you are rocking a metal blade. 

Being that I am in Colorado and we have a continental snow pack, I used a 240 cm probe for years. Now that I am traveling to Maritime snow pack locations at least once a season, I'm rocking a 340 cm carbon probe. Did some snow pit stuff and that probe got swallowed when trying to measure the snow depth. I had my arm in the snow up to my shoulder and still couldn't hit ground. In an avalanche situation and a deep snow pack like that. Yeah, a longer probe is a great idea.


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## ShredLife (Feb 6, 2010)

ShredLife said:


> \ in the event i have to ever use it it will be during a class 11 shitstorm and i'd much rather err on the side of being prepared.
> 
> these are tools to save a life. not worth it for me to use the bare minimum.


this guy is jeanyus


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## Slush Puppie (Aug 15, 2011)

Thanks for the feedback. I'm my scenario those deeper burial depths would be very unlikely unless some kind of terrain trap was involved.

I found some more info again: Probes echoing the 240 size as being a recommended choice. 

It seems that an extension piece can be added to the one I was looking at if required (travelling to deeper snow location, conditions). Let's face it, if the burial dept is over 2m, you're in trouble full stop 

Advice appreciated but i'm going to stick with my original options.


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## Triple8Sol (Nov 24, 2008)

The difference between a 240 and 300 prode is only a few ozs. in weight and a couple extra shaft pieces in bulk. I've always had a 300cm and you're not gonna notice a difference in weight/size that's equivalent to a couple clif bars. Seems strange to risk having a probe that's too short for the rescue vs. having a longer one that might be just a few bucks more. It's not like you're gonna buy multiple probes, so why not get one that will work no matter where you move/travel?

The shovel you listed seems like a good option. I've always opted for one with a telescoping handle too. I used to have a T-handle, but now that I'm venturing over into mitten territory (instead of gloves) I replaced it with a D-handle.


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## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

This past weekend did an avy course and one of the guys had this shovel and it did seem to have some use in the pick position; though I forgot to ask how well it fit in his pack.

Ortovox Grizzly multifunctional avalanche shovel


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## killclimbz (Aug 10, 2007)

The "snow hoe" option is actually very nice. Great for when you are digging pits with multiple people. You can hoe shit out of the way while others dig. It also could be very useful if you are digging like hell for a person with two or three others. Again, clearing snow as you dig into your victim.


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## Slush Puppie (Aug 15, 2011)

I've been doing a bit more research, the Kodiak looks pretty awesome too if you want the pick axe function. Though I'm still with my original choice. 

It's amazing how many design features you can fit into a shovel (and how important some of them seem to be).

The G3 AviTech was tempting me briefly. But the Beast is easier to source where I am and seems comparable in a few key ways and a solid choice.

Probe wise, I havent found any option recommended more frequently (by europeans) than the Ortovox. I also haven't seen any carbon probes for sale locally of 3+m but most will take a 40mm or 60mm extension piece. So going to stick with that option too and probably get the 40mm extension. Seems a sensible compromise of all the considerations raised.

I'm still not much closer to choosing a pack though. Have any of you used the Ortovox Freeride? Free Rider 18 Snowsafe : Avalanche safety products and Backcountry equipment
Or the Dakine Heli pro? 
Thoughts, other suggestions?
Needs to be small low profile and light (but with completely internal shovel storage.)

Also considering airbag options.

It's something I think I could ideally do with trying on before buying but I don't want to risk waiting until I get to the resort because I don't know what the visibility situation is like :dunno:


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## deeppowder (Nov 27, 2012)

Triple8Sol said:


> The difference between a 240 and 300 prode is only a few ozs. in weight and a couple extra shaft pieces in bulk. I've always had a 300cm and you're not gonna notice a difference in weight/size that's equivalent to a couple clif bars. Seems strange to risk having a probe that's too short for the rescue vs. having a longer one that might be just a few bucks more. It's not like you're gonna buy multiple probes, so why not get one that will work no matter where you move/travel?
> 
> The shovel you listed seems like a good option. I've always opted for one with a telescoping handle too. I used to have a T-handle, but now that I'm venturing over into mitten territory (instead of gloves) I replaced it with a D-handle.


Having a probe that would work everywhere does seem more practical to me.


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## linvillegorge (Jul 6, 2009)

My probe is 320cm, but realistically speaking, if you're digging up someone buried 300cm, you're likely going to be digging up a corpse. They're just too deep. It's gonna take too long.


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## ShredLife (Feb 6, 2010)

linvillegorge said:


> My probe is 320cm, but realistically speaking, if you're digging up someone buried 300cm, you're likely going to be digging up a corpse. They're just too deep. It's gonna take too long.


if you hold a tape measure in your hand and let it drop to the floor you'll be holding 75-100 cm of tape in your hand if you remain upright. in a probing situation are you going to go down to one knee driving your hand to the top of the snow each time you probe or are you going to remain standing? 

i think its a silly argument to go short. are any of you really that concerned over the weight of two more fucking tent poles? would you accept a beacon with 30% less range? an airbag with 30% less capacity just so it will weigh 5% lighter?


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## linvillegorge (Jul 6, 2009)

I guess you missed the part where I said that I have a 320cm probe during your passionate rant. :cheeky4:


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## ShredLife (Feb 6, 2010)

the silly part was really more about the OP asking for advice on equipment and to then try and justify his decision contrary to the advice he has received.


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## linvillegorge (Jul 6, 2009)

Ah, gotcha :thumbsup:


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## Slush Puppie (Aug 15, 2011)

Shrug. Well I listened to your advice and as already stated, since 300cm or longer were not available (without ordering for the US maybe), whereas the 280cm once actually was I've gone for that. Following the recommendation of several avalanche professionals is good enough for me.

I'm glad at 320cm yours all "go up to 11" so to speak but the crucial thing is that I now have something that I can and will carry with me in the side country where I will be using it instead of nothing. So let's just move on and hope _none_ of us ever need to use them for real.


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