# Bought a jacket without insulating layer, how to keep myself warm?



## Guest (Jan 20, 2010)

I have a similar jacket, its just a shell. A couple weeks ago, I was in Tremblant, and the temp dipped around -20Cish on average. I wore a thermal underlayer, a long sleeve shirt, and a fleece over top that, and it kept me super toasty, even on the 15 minute chair lift up through snow makers.

Once you get moving, you probably won't even feel the cold. Just need to survive the way up.


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## oliveryochest (Oct 22, 2009)

Wolf said:


> Hi,
> 
> I bought my very first snowboarding jacket, but made a mistake by buying it with no insulating layer. Its a Protest Geotech P10 series jacket. Yesterday tried to go few kilometers on foot and almost froze to death with it. I wore the the thermal underwear and 100% cotton pullover on it. Whats the common clothing setup with such a jackets? Does thermal underwear + one layer fleece do the job at -10..20 Celsius (14...-4F)?


I go to Hokkaido every year where temps range anywhere from -10C - 30C. I wear thermal underwear, a fleece, and then my shell jacket. I never feel cold and always stay warm and dry. Cotton is your enemy. Stay away from it.


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## bryantp (Dec 1, 2008)

*Jacket*

Begin with two layers under the jacket for all but the worst days.

I'm a Patagonia whore - I love their under-layers and mid-layers. 

Yes, Patagucci can be higher priced, but bargains can be found. More importantly, they're very kind to the environment. There's nothing more expensive than buying stuff from a polluter or child-labor type company. You pay for those the rest of your life.

Using Patagonia for an example, use a Merino 1 Crew for a base layer. If you're really cold-natured, use a Merino 2 or 3. Wool rocks because it still keeps you warm when it's wet, it breathes very well, and it doesn't stink. Great features in a base layer. A great midlayer is the Nano-puff pullover. It breathes well and compresses easily for storage. Many days you'll be too warm by lunch time. Removing the Nano and sticking it in your backpack or pocket makes life a bit easier.

My Hokkaido experience (using a different shell) leads me to believe this will work in almost any condition. If you're still cold, add one more base layer but that will be overkill for most conditions.


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## Leo (Nov 24, 2009)

There are people that swear by shells in cold weather which is perfectly fine. However, with shells you will have to put a lot of thought into your layers. Cotton is a major NO! Cotton gets wet and wet cotton is a very poor insulator. You can do cotton blends such as 80%Polyester/20%Cotton, but I wouldn't even recommend that. The best way to do it is to wear a compression fit first layer such as an Under Armour base 1.0 (you can use whatever brand you want, Patagonia is a great alternative), something more fitted as a second layer (like your thermal), and a fleece for your third layer (Merino Wool optimal here). I personally prefer insulated jackets (they come in different weights, I favor 60grams) over shells since I don't like wearing any more than two layers. I would use a shell in warmer weather though. Whatever tickles your pickle.


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## milner_7 (Feb 14, 2009)

My Special Blend Utility which is a shell is great. I wear a HH base layer then a UA hoodie and I am toasty. Have never felt cold even in -15 days. Its all about your layering.


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## hanzosteel (Oct 7, 2009)

virtually anything can be used between your base layer and your shell as insulation and since there are hundreds if not thousands of products in different weights and different materials, the possibilities are endless. try a heavy fleece sweater or down vest for super cold days. if it's still too cold, wear both and shed one when the skies open up. on warm days, just wear your shell and your base layer. for in-between days, rock a light fleece hoody under your shell. and anything an insulated jacket provides can be acheived with a shell and an insulated layer and, in fact, your shell gives you the flexibility to change it up as conditons change without having to waste money on different jackets with different insulation. my opinion though.

when you say thermal underwear, you mean a proper base layer? meaning it should be thin, snug-fitting, moisture-wicking material (brands are generally irrelevant they all do the same thing).


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## Guest (Jan 20, 2010)

I have just a shell. I was recently on a hill with -18 and I was hot...I wore Under Armour cold gear, long sleeve shirt that is 70% cotton, fleece, and then the shell. 

I'd say it all starts with the base layer and making sure you remove the sweat from your body. The cotton shirt that I have is ok. I'd rather not have a cotton but, it worked.


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## bryantp (Dec 1, 2008)

*shell*

Cotton works until wet. Then, you get cold. Then sick. The saying is Cotton Kills. Most of us don't go that far for that long. But I've had lots of students get sick. They told me the same thing.


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## PeterG (Jan 20, 2010)

Under Armour as a base then a thermal and you should be ok.


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## Sam I Am (Sep 9, 2009)

Return it. Buy an insulated jacket.


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## Guest (Jan 20, 2010)

Ok, i'll try to go with single fleece right-now


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## Guest (Jan 20, 2010)

you don't need to rebuy anything.

just get some layers.

layers
*layers*
*layers!*


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## earl_je (Oct 20, 2009)

one word: layers

i mean really, how hard can that be?


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## Guest (Jan 20, 2010)

Stupid question from me: how tight should the thermal underwear be? If its slightly loose, does it infulence anything? I am figuring that my underwear might be slightly bigger than it is necessary for me


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## Guest (Jan 20, 2010)

PeterG said:


> Under Armour as a base then a thermal and you should be ok.


Under Armour is amazing and depending on how cold the area your headed is a Patagonia R1 is a great base layer as well.


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## Guest (Jan 20, 2010)

Wolf said:


> Stupid question from me: how tight should the thermal underwear be? If its slightly loose, does it infulence anything? I am figuring that my underwear might be slightly bigger than it is necessary for me


it should be pretty tight not as much as under armor but def still tight. If its loose its not wicking moister from your body so if you sweat you will get cold fast if it doesn't fit. Also If its too loose it doesn't keep in body heat as well.


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## Guest (Jan 20, 2010)

Sam I Am said:


> Return it. Buy an insulated jacket.


Don't return it having no insulation is a great thing because you can layer up and take off what you don't need. If you have an insulated jacket and its a warm day you will burn up.


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## Leo (Nov 24, 2009)

You shouldn't just tell someone not to buy an insulated jacket. It is preference. Obviously more people like to get into the art of layering. I can just buy a cheap shell jacket that is the same cost or even cheaper than a base layer for warmer days. How often do you snowboard in the spring though? Are you constantly snowboarding in warm weather? I bet the majority of the time, it is during colder weather with wind chills. A jacket that is insulated with only 60grams isn't going to bake you like pot roast. When you start going into the down jackets or insulation into the hundreds of grams, then you can talk about being too warm.

My whole reasoning for using lightly insulated jackets is so I can wear one less layer than I would normally have to with a shell. For example, with a shell in 10 degree weather, I have to wear at least 3 layers underneath unless I use two layers with the mid layer being something like thick fleece or wool. With my 60 grams insulation, I just have to wear two very light layers: UA base 1.0 and a polyester long sleeve over it. I stay plenty warm.

Another reason why you shouldn't rule out insulation completely is design. I love my Shaun White jackets for their design. They don't make the signature series in shells. 60 grams is not heavy at all and I still have to wear a couple of layers under it. I can shed a layer just fine to cool off if it gets warm.

For me, all that layering is a hassle. Take it off, put it on, take it off again. Take one off, take two off, put one back on, blah blah blah. Warmer weather? I'll use a $50 shell or not even use a jacket at all. Unless of course I really want that powder skirt.

Anyway, just layer up and keep the shell. It's not a deal breaker. You might even end up liking shells better, who knows :dunno:

Just don't knock all insulated jackets just because there are people who prefer to layer.


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## Snowfox (Dec 26, 2009)

^On that topic...

I use an insulated jacket as well. If it ever gets too warm I just unzip it. I keep the snowskirt still attached so I don't have to worry about snow getting in my ass or anywhere else. 
Plus, a lot of stuff have those air zipper spots (not sure what they're called, you zip them down so it lets some air in if you're overheating).


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## sevenstarsfall (Jan 16, 2010)

Probably asked before but where is everyone buying their under armour from??


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## Leo (Nov 24, 2009)

sevenstarsfall said:


> Probably asked before but where is everyone buying their under armour from??


Under Armour


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## sevenstarsfall (Jan 16, 2010)

Thx Leo,

Would the 1.0 be suffiecient for me, im in Northern California and usually go to Truckee for my boarding?

Also since Ive never measured my chest, I wear size medium t-shirts, would medium work for my UA or should I measure myself and go by the chart?? 

Thx


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## Leo (Nov 24, 2009)

Going by the chart is the best way, but I wear a medium shirt and use a large in UA.

Just a warning, if you aren't used to compression gear like the base 1.0, you will feel pretty uncomfortable at first. You'll get very used to it though after a few sessions. I love the compression feel now. I forget it's there. It actually minimizes my soreness too after riding (unless the soreness is from falls :laugh.

I don't know the temperatures of where you ride, but from personal experience the base 1.0 keeps me warm in 20 degree temperatures. I do have an insulated jacket over it though. If you use another layer over the base 1.0, you will be pretty warm.


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## briangig (Nov 6, 2009)

i use relaxed fit UA cold gear, works great..I also have some burton base shirts polyester/spandex mix. I like a jacket with zip out insulation..3 jackets for the price of one, plus you can remove one of the layers if you warm up.


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## freshy (Nov 18, 2009)

I had a shell, and like other said layers. I just want to ad that I had a insulated vest I found at a second hand shop that was perfect for those cold days, come to think of it I wore that vest all the time... Keep that core warm.


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## kswissreject (Feb 26, 2009)

I love my icebreaker - they are super warm, and easy to wear several times without washing. have the leggings, the long sleeve undershirt, and also a midweight top over that. this combination works really well, IMO.


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## Guest (Jan 24, 2010)

hanzosteel said:


> virtually anything can be used between your base layer and your shell as insulation and since there are hundreds if not thousands of products in different weights and different materials, the possibilities are endless. try a heavy fleece sweater or down vest for super cold days. if it's still too cold, wear both and shed one when the skies open up. on warm days, just wear your shell and your base layer. for in-between days, rock a light fleece hoody under your shell. and anything an insulated jacket provides can be acheived with a shell and an insulated layer and, in fact, your shell gives you the flexibility to change it up as conditons change without having to waste money on different jackets with different insulation. my opinion though.
> 
> when you say thermal underwear, you mean a proper base layer? meaning it should be thin, snug-fitting, moisture-wicking material (brands are generally irrelevant they all do the same thing).


Thermal underwear - FiveSeasons base layer. I tried the stuff first time today with underlayer + cotton t-shirt + Lafuma fleece. The temp was -16C. Setup was very-very slightly cooler than comfortable.


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## Leo (Nov 24, 2009)

Wolf said:


> Thermal underwear - FiveSeasons base layer. I tried the stuff first time today with underlayer + cotton t-shirt + Lafuma fleece. The temp was -16C. Setup was very-very slightly cooler than comfortable.


When you start getting into double digit negative temps, it's time for you to consider well insulated jackets. If you don't mind puffy ones, a down jacket will definitely keep you warm with minimal base layering.

Just an option though. :dunno:


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## hanzosteel (Oct 7, 2009)

i respectfully disagree. you don't need to buy another expensive water/windproof insulated jacket when the temp drops to super cold levels if you already own a water/windproof shell. you can buy or use existing natural or synthetic down garment as your mid layer under your shell. i use a $40 down-filled vest and there are down "sweaters" versions (for lack of a better word) too (basically the same thing in zip-out jacket systems). 1 layer equivalent to the insulation in an insulated jacket. 1 shell all year round. 3-in-1 jacket systems are also versatile if you don't want to go the shell or insulated jacket route.


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## Guest (Feb 14, 2010)

Hi,

I got the issue solved with using usual scarf. It blocks the air flow through neck area and keeps warm. It also lifts the jacket slightly off the chest and shoulders - more air under jacket, better insulation.


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## Guest (Feb 14, 2010)

Quick note on down jackets... the outer fabric may be waterproof, but none of the seams will be sealed, so wear only on cold, non snowing days.

As for insulation, yep to the layer ideas. Under Armour or other compression layers are great, but try to keep the merino layers (base) to a minimum, as once it gets wet, it becomes heavy, loses insulation, & takes a lot longer to dry. As a mid layer, I'd also consider a soft-shell jacket (Mountain Equipment, Marmot, Helly Hanson, Sessions, North Face, Mountain Hardware), as the fabrics are at least a two-way stretch, breathable, & can be used as another form of outerwear, if needed, & will insulate very well!


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## Extremo (Nov 6, 2008)

You dont need a down jacket, just check out a good layering fleece like North Face Denali. I have a shell jacket and I layer with a moisture wicking dryride baselayer and a 300-500 gram fleece like the Denali. Throw on a fleece neck gaiter and you'll never get cold. EMS makes a 300g fleece as well that is similar to the Denali and its about $70 cheaper.


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## phile00 (Jan 7, 2009)

I use Under Armor Cold Gear 3.0. It's amazing. I layer micro fleece pants and a hoodie over that. If it's cold, I replace the hoodie with a nice jacket that's made of wetsuit like material. Then my final layer is my shell and pants. They're both 20,000/20,000 waterproof/breathable. The jacket is getting kind of old, so the wind passes through it if it's a really windy day. So far I've had this getup in -15 so far and I'm nice and warm.


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## malkinfleury (Dec 1, 2008)

i don't get the big deal with cotton...i wear cotton hoodies and shirts under my jacket with a fleece liner, IF anything gets wet, it's the very bottom of the hoodies, and it doesn't make me colder at all, and it doesn't affect anything...


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## Guest (Feb 20, 2010)

Cotton doesn't breath or evaporate sweat or moisture, as efficiently or as quick, as tech t's, so you may end up getting colder, or feeling damper under a breathable outerwear. Not saying don't wear cotton, but it's not advisable on humid or heavy snowfall days


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