# Is there a way to make more room in the toe box?



## PlanB

In my experience, after the amount of riding you have in these boots (40 days), they're not going to 'pack-out' any further. Nor would heat-molding create any more room. 

I hade a pair of older Vans (forget the model) that I wore for half a season and was never 100% with them (got to be about 85% or so) even after heat-molding. One day I just said the heck with it - took out the liner out, located the spot I felt some rubbing - shaved off a small portion of the liner on the outside with a box-cutter and that fixed the problem instantly. From that point on the boots were about a 95% fit and I rode them for another season and a half essentially issue-free. 

People need to remember - these boots/liners are made for 'generic' foot patterns, and even with heat-molding they may never be 100% the right fit for your foot/ankle/calf.

This is why boot-fitters exist and they will tell you the same thing - off the shelf boots are made for 'generic' feet and often require customization for optimal fit.


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## Extremo

Back in the day when boots where big and chunky it was common for people to buy a size smaller to reduce overhang and cut the toe of the liner out. I've done it myself in a few pair. Don't cut the whole toe off, just the front ridge of the liner were your toes are touching. It'll make the boot fit a half size larger.


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## ETM

Extremo said:


> Back in the day when boots where big and chunky it was common for people to buy a size smaller to reduce overhang and cut the toe of the liner out. I've done it myself in a few pair. Don't cut the whole toe off, just the front ridge of the liner were your toes are touching. It'll make the boot fit a half size larger.


I've been considering this actually. I went down a size in boots to get a better fit but my left big toe is getting hammered where the boot starts to curve around. 
I have already glued a piece on the inside to push my foot across to the other side but my toe nail is half black again lol..
Im worried if I cut the liner it will just introduce my toe to to the hard outer boot and cause more pain. The boot is fine for length its just that the boots curve and my toes are kind of straight.


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## atad1234

*It works!*

Thanks for the tip guys, I took a small box cutter snd shaved off slices in the toe area and it changed the felling completely. 

I haven't ride with them since but from walking around the house it looks like the annoying hammering sensation around the big toe disappeared.

ETM:

I can't see how glueing pieces to the side of the liner can help..not sure if it is the same case like mine but for me shaving off the liner did much more than I expected.


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## ETM

atad1234 said:


> Thanks for the tip guys, I took a small box cutter snd shaved off slices in the toe area and it changed the felling completely.
> 
> I haven't ride with them since but from walking around the house it looks like the annoying hammering sensation around the big toe disappeared.
> 
> ETM:
> 
> I can't see how glueing pieces to the side of the liner can help..not sure if it is the same case like mine but for me shaving off the liner did much more than I expected.


cause my toe is hitting on the side, so by pushjng my foot across in the boot it gives me more room on the side.


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## Wiredsport

atad1234 said:


> Hi.
> 
> Question is, does heat holding them now after being used for some time can get mew that extra room I need in there? Does these tow caps can really expand the liner? I don't feel like changing my boots again...just want one pair to be snug but comfy..
> 
> Thanks.


You can definitely mold these boots with a positive result after 40 days (and much longer). 

I would not suggest the toe cap method as it tends to make for a _comfort fit_ (which is code for _sloppy boot_. )

Has your boot ever been heat fit? If not, start there (no toe caps please). Packing out does not give the same result as a heat fit. 

If after the heat fit you still have an issue with your big toe, you can selectively blow out that single area with a blow dryer. While the blow dryer method is sub standard for an entire fit, it is ideal for a selective adjustment.

The reason Blow dryers do not work as well for a full liner fit is that it is difficult to achieve a consistent temperature across the entire liner and as the heating is done form the outside, the most important inner portion of the liner is more difficult to warm safely and correctly. Also it is more likely that the liner will be overheated which can cause damage. None of these issues are a factor for the (carefully managed) spot fit as you are looking to warm only a few inches of the boot and this can easily be achieved from externally applied heat.

Once heated you can manually compress the liner from the inside in very specific areas with a protected hand/thumb or a shaped tool.


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## Jcb890

Wiredsport said:


> You can definitely mold these boots with a positive result after 40 days (and much longer).
> 
> I would not suggest the toe cap method as it tends to make for a _comfort fit_ (which is code for _sloppy boot_. )
> 
> Has your boot ever been heat fit? If not, start there (no toe caps please). Packing out does not give the same result as a heat fit.
> 
> If after the heat fit you still have an issue with your big toe, you can selectively blow out that single area with a blow dryer. While the blow dryer method is sub standard for an entire fit, it is ideal for a selective adjustment.
> 
> The reason Blow dryers do not work as well for a full liner fit is that it is difficult to achieve a consistent temperature across the entire liner and as the heating is done form the outside, the most important inner portion of the liner is more difficult to warm safely and correctly. Also it is more likely that the liner will be overheated which can cause damage. None of these issues are a factor for the (carefully managed) spot fit as you are looking to warm only a few inches of the boot and this can easily be achieved from externally applied heat.
> 
> Once heated you can manually compress the liner from the inside in very specific areas with a protected hand/thumb or a shaped tool.


"*NO*" to the toe caps? Even if it is a little tight in the toe box area? Is it a bad thing to have comfort in the toe area?


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## Wiredsport

Hi,

We always suggest having a first fit done with no toe cap. That will create a perfect wrap of your foot and will redistribute liner material to the negative spaces. In the majority of instances that will be all it takes. 

If there is still point pressure then that can be addressed by slectively blowing out specific micro-regions as above. 

A toe cap is not shaped like your foot. It just creates generic space in front of your foot. Just like with too large a boot this allows fore/aft slippage and the potential for heel lift.


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## Jcb890

Wiredsport said:


> Hi,
> 
> We always suggest having a first fit done with no toe cap. That will create a perfect wrap of your foot and will redistribute liner material to the negative spaces. In the majority of instances that will be all it takes.
> 
> If there is still point pressure then that can be addressed by slectively blowing out specific micro-regions as above.
> 
> A toe cap is not shaped like your foot. It just creates generic space in front of your foot. Just like with too large a boot this allows fore/aft slippage and the potential for heel lift.


I wonder if my boots fit perfect then and I'm just thinking about it wrong. My toes come right up to the edge of the toe box. It is not painful, but I can feel that they are there. Perhaps after a few runs they would become painful a bit, but just putting them on and walking around the house there's no pain.

I'm wondering if a heat mold *without* the toe caps would suit me better. Theoretically, I should gain a tiny bit of space in the toes due to the heel and rest of the boot molding to my foot, right?


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## Wiredsport

Jcb890 said:


> I wonder if my boots fit perfect then and I'm just thinking about it wrong. My toes come right up to the edge of the toe box. It is not painful, but I can feel that they are there. Perhaps after a few runs they would become painful a bit, but just putting them on and walking around the house there's no pain.
> 
> I'm wondering if a heat mold *without* the toe caps would suit me better. Theoretically, I should gain a tiny bit of space in the toes due to the heel and rest of the boot molding to my foot, right?


Hi,

Boots are designed to fit with firm pressure into the compliant liner materials for both toe and heel. 

Here is a snip on fit:

Your boots should be snug!

The most common complaint about boots is that they are too loose, not to tight. The junction between rider and board begins with the boot, as it is in the most direct contact with the rider. When fitting boots, use the following method: A. Slip into the boot. B. Kick your heel back against the ground several times to drive it back into the boot's heel pocket. C. Lace the boot tightly, as though you were going to ride. NOTE: This is where most sizing mistakes are made. A snowboard boot is shaped like an upside down "7". The back has a good degree of forward lean. Thus, when you drop into the boot, your heel may be resting up to an inch away from the back of the boot, and your toes may be jammed into the front of the boot. Until the boot is tightly laced, you will not know if it is a proper fit. D. Your toes should now have firm pressure against the front of the boot. As this is the crux of sizing, let's discuss firm pressure: When you flex your knee forward hard, the pressure should lighten, or cease, as your toes pull back. At no time should you feel numbness or lose circulation. Your toes will be in contact with the end of the boot, unlike in a properly fit street or athletic shoe (snowboard boots are designed to fit more snugly than your other shoes). When you have achieved this combination of firm pressure and no circulation loss, you have found the correct size!


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## Jcb890

Wiredsport said:


> Hi,
> 
> Boots are designed to fit with firm pressure into the compliant liner materials for both toe and heel.
> 
> Here is a snip on fit:
> 
> Your boots should be snug!
> 
> The most common complaint about boots is that they are too loose, not to tight. The junction between rider and board begins with the boot, as it is in the most direct contact with the rider. When fitting boots, use the following method: A. Slip into the boot. B. Kick your heel back against the ground several times to drive it back into the boot's heel pocket. C. Lace the boot tightly, as though you were going to ride. NOTE: This is where most sizing mistakes are made. A snowboard boot is shaped like an upside down "7". The back has a good degree of forward lean. Thus, when you drop into the boot, your heel may be resting up to an inch away from the back of the boot, and your toes may be jammed into the front of the boot. Until the boot is tightly laced, you will not know if it is a proper fit. D. Your toes should now have firm pressure against the front of the boot. As this is the crux of sizing, let's discuss firm pressure: When you flex your knee forward hard, the pressure should lighten, or cease, as your toes pull back. At no time should you feel numbness or lose circulation. Your toes will be in contact with the end of the boot, unlike in a properly fit street or athletic shoe (snowboard boots are designed to fit more snugly than your other shoes). When you have achieved this combination of firm pressure and no circulation loss, you have found the correct size!


Perhaps my problem is I am having a tough time getting past the idea/feel of my toes being up against the end of the boot and that being the opposite of how normal shoes fit.


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## Wiredsport

Jcb890 said:


> Perhaps my problem is I am having a tough time getting past the idea/feel of my toes being up against the end of the boot and that being the opposite of how normal shoes fit.


Lets find out for sure. What size boot are you in?

Please measure your foot using this method:

Kick your heel (barefoot please, no socks) back against a wall. Mark the floor exactly at the tip of your toe (the one that sticks out furthest - which toe this is will vary by rider). Measure from the mark on the floor to the wall. That is your foot length and is the only measurement that you will want to use. Measure in centimeters if possible, but if not, take inches and multiply by 2.54 (example: an 11.25 inch foot x 2.54 = 28.57 centimeters).

Then please pull the insert from inside the liner and measure it toe to heel.

Finally, please stand on the liner with your heel back in the heel recess and take a photo of that from above.


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## Jcb890

Wiredsport said:


> Lets find out for sure. What size boot are you in?
> 
> Please measure your foot using this method:
> 
> Kick your heel (barefoot please, no socks) back against a wall. Mark the floor exactly at the tip of your toe (the one that sticks out furthest - which toe this is will vary by rider). Measure from the mark on the floor to the wall. That is your foot length and is the only measurement that you will want to use. Measure in centimeters if possible, but if not, take inches and multiply by 2.54 (example: an 11.25 inch foot x 2.54 = 28.57 centimeters).
> 
> Then please pull the insert from inside the liner and measure it toe to heel.
> 
> Finally, please stand on the liner with your heel back in the heel recess and take a photo of that from above.


I will try and do that at some point this weekend. I'll try to explain the best I can though without pictures... and I don't want to take my shoes and socks off and measure my foot against the wall here at work :chin:

I wear a size 14 in New Balance sneakers. I have a pair of old Dr. Marten shoes that are 13's. I cannot wear Nike shoes because they are too narrow. I have a medium/wide foot.

My boots are Thirty-Two Focus BOA's (2 zones).

I did take the insert out from inside the liner and stood on it with my heel all the way to the back like you asked me to do in another thread. My big toe *DOES NOT* come out past the end of the foot insert.

Overall, the boot feels really tight and stiff. I love the feel. It just just a little too tight in the toes... maybe?


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## Wiredsport

Please post a link to the old thread. I forgot we had done this together 

The foot measurement will be helpful. (Your coworkers will understand. Guys measure their feet at work all the time.)

You are really looking for 1 cm of overhang to the insert (.5 on the toe and .5 on the heel). 

This is the process of getting used to a correct snowboard boot fit. It can change your world in terms of precision and performance and it is the basis for getting the rest of your gear properly adjusted, centered, and shred ready.

STOKED!


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## snowklinger

I have alot of volume in the forefoot of my flat wide feet. For a performance fit I need to do a considerable amount of fitting down there:

Cut the front 3-5 (depending on footsize and problem spots) inches off a couple-3 pairs of old cotton socks (i got a drawerfull i don't wear ever). Wear them over the part of your foot (you can custom cut this) that needs room, you can get pretty creative (for example if you need really specific that a sock wont do, athletic tape a build up in the area, then sock over). I'll put several layers on. Then a thin tight sock over that. Then I stand in my boots until they are cool (minimum 15 minutes, maybe 20, don't walk around, stand with all your weight pressing down and a little pressure on your shins, like in bindings. This is a good time for carpetboarding with new gear when theres no snow) after heating the liners up in the dryer on high.

I wear a 10 in regular shoes but make 9's work with this method. It makes for a great fit but requires work and pain. I usually have to repeat the process 2-3 times.

This year I'm wearing 10's out of the box, but as soon as they get sloppy I have a pair of 9's that are just barely broke in to go back to.


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## Jcb890

Went and got my boot heat molded today. Wow what a difference!

Before heat molding, I could not get my foot into the boot without the lining being taken out of the boot first. My toes were pretty well crunched up against the end of the boot in the toe box. That is not the case any more! They feel awesome. I have more room everywhere in the boot, but it is still very tight to my foot. The toebox has been pushed out a bit also which is a big help. None of my toes are crunched any more and my big toes are just barely touching the end of the boot/toebox in each boot. I can't wait to get out and ride, they feel glorious.


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