# base structure?



## Guest (Dec 17, 2008)

not enough to notice. if want to get all randy with your base then go ahead and scrape it normally then brush it or hit it with an abrasive cleaning pad. i cant think of the name right now... not a brillo pad but they are green and abrasive ...total brainfart... duh. the brushing action helps remove the wax that fills that spaces produced from the base structure.

you are on the right track with the structure... it is a pattern cut into the base material via a stone grind. the stone itself can be prepped in a variety of ways in order to make different patterns, or structure, in your base. the structure does move water created from the friction b/t your deck and the snow out to the edges (or the back). different structures can also help you hold speed better as well as helping your board glide better in different snow and weatehr conditions... but few would ever notice the difference outside of racers and folks that work in a shop with a stone grinder and have the opportunity to screw around with different structures and then go ride on them.


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## snowjeeper (Nov 11, 2008)

you can use any brush that has stiff plastic/vinyl bristles. the type of thing you find for like scrubbing the floor, or dishes even. walmart or any hardware store will have brushes. the idea is just to create more channels for the water to move down.


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## legallyillegal (Oct 6, 2008)

Scotchbrite.


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## ridinbend (Aug 2, 2012)

Does anybody structure their base? What tool do you use?


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## Lamps (Sep 3, 2011)

ridinbend said:


> Does anybody structure their base? What tool do you use?


I got mine done by a shop, I find in spring it makes a huge difference. 

I do my own waxing, and the brush is important to get wax out of the grooves at the end. 

If I didn't structure my base I think scrape plus scotchbrite plus your first run would do it.


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## tanscrazydaisy (Mar 11, 2013)

ridinbend said:


> Does anybody structure their base? What tool do you use?


I haven't structured my own base

here's a video though


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## snowklinger (Aug 30, 2011)

ridinbend said:


> Does anybody structure their base? What tool do you use?


Alpine rocks plus a little speed.


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## ridinbend (Aug 2, 2012)

snowklinger said:


> Alpine rocks plus a little speed.


Unfortunately that's how I started my season in the low tide shark teeth of volcano riding. Now I need to ride mushy corn like it's sheet glass dawn patrol epicness.


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## Lamps (Sep 3, 2011)

ridinbend said:


> Unfortunately that's how I started my season in the low tide shark teeth of volcano riding. Now I need to ride mushy corn like it's sheet glass dawn patrol epicness.


Then get deep structure ground in, wax daily, surf the corn like its 30' tubes at Revelations.


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## Bones (Feb 24, 2008)

TeriyakiTerror said:


> i wuz wondering how much of a difference brushing after scraping the wax off is. I have a sintered base so apparently there are grooves or stuff in it so there are channels for the water


While a sintered base has pores (for lack of better word), that isn't the same as being structured (a ground geometric pattern of grooves).

A deep base structure is really only noticeable by recreational riders in wet, slushy spring conditions as it helps break the suction effect of excess water under your board. So, yeah brushing out those grooves will help, but if you already care enough to get your board ground for spring riding, then you probably already know this and you already know that one run will probably do a better job of cleaning out the structure than brushing ever will.

I use a brillo pad after scraping, but more to feel where I might want to scrape a little more.


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## ridinbend (Aug 2, 2012)

So nobody puts their own structure in? I understand getting a shop to grind in a spring cross hatch pattern , but was curious if there were any OCD base individuals that put in their own structure. I looked around and it seems there really is no snowboard specific tools to do this. Slide wright has ruby stones that are coarse and then there is the hand planer looking tools but nothing about snowboard specific DIY structure tools.

http://www.slidewright.com/ski-and-snowboard/bases/base-structuring-tools/

This wax got the most praise for spring riding.
http://www.hertelskiwax.com/Ski-Wax-Spring-Solution-p/spring-5bar-ski.htm

This was also quite helpful
http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/showthread.php/276587-Mashed-Potatoes-and-Gravy-wax-help

Here was an interesting read about how the base of the board becomes concave underfoot from weight on edges and why a flat base is most effective. Not sure if the use if this tool really applies to snowboards or not. 
http://www.slidewright.com/weblog/s...i-snowboard/base-flattener-structuring-plane/


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## 24WERD (May 9, 2012)

I just play it simple and structure using a cooper or brass brush up and down and 45degree after waxing.

Go ride.


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## CassMT (Mar 14, 2013)

splittin froghairs, personally i think this is a crock-o-sh!t


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## ridinbend (Aug 2, 2012)

CassMT said:


> splittin froghairs, personally i think this is a crock-o-sh!t


I'll let you know, I still got a month and a half of riding slush and corn. Last year when things got soft, I literally could only ride about an hour before suction and then it's like riding with the ebrake on.


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## tanscrazydaisy (Mar 11, 2013)

Ideally, get yourself a board dedicated to spring slush


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## chomps1211 (Mar 30, 2011)

tanscrazydaisy said:


> Ideally, get yourself a board dedicated to spring slush


....aaaand that board would be different how? Are you talking about getting a board and then doing something specific to it? Something to the base, specific wax, texture, what?

Or is there some aspect of board design n tech that is specifically suited for performing better in wet spring snow? Some brand or base, camber combo?

I'm not being sarcastic. I'm just a little confused by that comment. Aside from a warm temp wax and maybe steering clear of flat camber designs. I don't know a lot about various boards and brands but I assumed _any_ board was about as good or bad at dealing with wetpack and "board suck!" 

(..."Wetpack!" That's mine for describing fresh wet snow, packed and warmed to the point of sucking!).


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## ridinbend (Aug 2, 2012)

tanscrazydaisy said:


> Ideally, get yourself a board dedicated to spring slush


Already do. Sick stick. 
"One of the most iconic Salomon boards has returned for yet another year to Slay Boredom. Built from the ground up with ABC Wrapper construction, Popster profile, and a shape designed for bottomless pow, slushy summer laps, and everything between. Take more Sick Days." 

New boards don't come with structure for corn/wet snow conditions.


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## jtg (Dec 11, 2012)

chomps1211 said:


> ....aaaand that board would be different how? Are you talking about getting a board and then doing something specific to it? Something to the base, specific wax, texture, what?
> 
> Or is there some aspect of board design n tech that is specifically suited for performing better in wet spring snow? Some brand or base, camber combo?
> 
> ...


Because structuring is a permanent modification to the base, and performs worse in non-slush snow. So if you're going to take things that far, do it on a dedicated spring board, and leave the base on your main board alone.

It's more commonly done on skis, for reasons I don't know. Most shops don't even do it on boards.

Ski Base Structure Theory


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## Bones (Feb 24, 2008)

ridinbend said:


> So nobody puts their own structure in? I understand getting a shop to grind in a spring cross hatch pattern , but was curious if there were any OCD base individuals that put in their own structure.


Here's a good read on base structure theory:

Ski Base Structure Theory

You can do a stone grind by hand, but you'll need to practice a lot before you can achieve good results. 

Any flurocarbon wax will work well in spring conditions for the recreational rider. Hertel wax is a fan favorite on this forum, but there is no mention of the science behind any of their wax on their website. Personally I found it to be no different than most other all temperature waxes: meaning pretty good, but nothing special. Their spring wax is their regular wax with some "anti-pollen" addictive, but it isn't flurocarbon. I have noticed a significant difference using high fluro Toko wax in the spring, but the price difference is bigger than the performance difference so I won't be restocking when it is gone. Then again, I only get a couple of weeks of spring riding before the hills close around here and that stuff is expensive


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## ridinbend (Aug 2, 2012)

Bachy is open til June 1 and our spring temp fluctuations can be almost 3 mons. We're in it now. Both shops I called the employees said they all do their boards, but I like taking care of my shit. Bought a brass brush and spring warm wax and I'll just do it on my rock board/spring board. I'll update if I notice a difference. Last spring was sticky to say the least. More surface area requires more water movement, and so I was just surprised how much skiers did for spring, but didn't find anything about snowboarders riding and managing the slush in the spring.


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## Bones (Feb 24, 2008)

If I had 3 months of spring riding, then I definitely would have a deep grind put on a dedicated board. Around here, spring board = rock board


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## Lamps (Sep 3, 2011)

jtg said:


> Because structuring is a permanent modification to the base, and performs worse in non-slush snow. So if you're going to take things that far, do it on a dedicated spring board, and leave the base on your main board alone.
> 
> Ski Base Structure Theory


Someone pointed out earlier that a recreational rider will only notice the difference in spring conditions if you get structure ground in. I agree with this, and so I think there's no need to dedicate a board for spring due to base grind, I put structure in all boards that I on that I might ride in spring conditions, and in other conditions I find no detriment.


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## CassMT (Mar 14, 2013)

my spring board = whats left of my winter board, haha


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## chomps1211 (Mar 30, 2011)

jtg said:


> Because structuring is a permanent modification to the base, and performs worse in non-slush snow. So if you're going to take things that far, do it on a dedicated spring board, and leave the base on your main board alone.
> 
> It's more commonly done on skis, for reasons I don't know. Most shops don't even do it on boards.
> 
> Ski Base Structure Theory





Lamps said:


> Someone pointed out earlier that a recreational rider will only notice the difference in spring conditions if you get structure ground in. I agree with this, and so I think there's no need to dedicate a board for spring due to base grind, I put structure in all boards that I on that I might ride in spring conditions, and in other conditions I find no detriment.



Ok, thanks! I thought that was probly what you meant, but wasn't certain. Appreciate you clearing that up for me. Iir, my '10-'11 Arbor Roundhouse has some very subtle structure tip to tail. I only remember experiencing moderately bad board suck with it once. And that was on "_wetpacked_" fresh like I described earlier. 




(...really hoping that term will catch on! How cool would it be to be able to make a claim to actually coining a new piece of "bro-speak?!))   lol!


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## rambob (Mar 5, 2011)

Hey Rideinbend, U need to talk to the peeps at the Race Place: They are The Shit for Tuning Advice in Bend/Bach. Take your Board/s in there and have em take a look at em. If you're gonna ride a bunch during the Spring then U need a coarse texture stone ground on your base. If U get the right texture and the right wax its back to shredding as normal........
The Race place is at 3rd and Reed Mkt located in the same business as Patio World.


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## ridinbend (Aug 2, 2012)

rambob said:


> Hey Rideinbend, U need to talk to the peeps at the Race Place: They are The Shit for Tuning Advice in Bend/Bach. Take your Board/s in there and have em take a look at em. If you're gonna ride a bunch during the Spring then U need a coarse texture stone ground on your base. If U get the right texture and the right wax its back to shredding as normal........
> The Race place is at 3rd and Reed Mkt located in the same business as Patio World.


Cheers bratha, I will definitely take my board over there. Thanks


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## Lamps (Sep 3, 2011)

ridinbend said:


> Bachy is open til June 1 and our spring temp fluctuations can be almost 3 mons. We're in it now. Both shops I called the employees said they all do their boards, but I like taking care of my shit. Bought a brass brush and spring warm wax and I'll just do it on my rock board/spring board. I'll update if I notice a difference. Last spring was sticky to say the least. More surface area requires more water movement, and so I was just surprised how much skiers did for spring, but didn't find anything about snowboarders riding and managing the slush in the spring.


I don't think you'll get much structure with a brass brush, deep structure is ground in with a stone wheel or a machine.


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## hardasacatshead (Aug 21, 2013)

Pretty sure Lamps is on the money here. I use a brass brush before every wax and it doesn't visibly affect the structure at all, I think the most you get is a good clean out of all the dirty stuff that's stuck in your base.


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## ridinbend (Aug 2, 2012)

hardasacatshead said:


> Pretty sure Lamps is on the money here. I use a brass brush before every wax and it doesn't visibly affect the structure at all, I think the most you get is a good clean out of all the dirty stuff that's stuck in your base.


Yeah I'll need a spring grind for sure.


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## ItchEtrigR (Jan 1, 2012)

restoring an well used board, trying to shave off a fraction of a second on a lap time or in a race this makes sense otherwise its a waste of time & money if you think your gonna get considerably faster in the spring wet...


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## Lamps (Sep 3, 2011)

ItchEtrigR said:


> restoring an well used board, trying to shave off a fraction of a second on a lap time or in a race this makes sense otherwise its a waste of time & money if you think your gonna get considerably faster in the spring wet...


Dude, it's not about lap times, it's about not going over the handlebars when you hit some watery snow. It makes a huge difference.


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## Bones (Feb 24, 2008)

ItchEtrigR said:


> restoring an well used board, trying to shave off a fraction of a second on a lap time or in a race this makes sense otherwise its a waste of time & money if you think your gonna get considerably faster in the spring wet...


For any other time of the season, I'd agree with you.

But, in the spring, it's the difference between unstrapping on the sunny flats or making it to the next pitch.


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## ridinbend (Aug 2, 2012)

Bones said:


> For any other time of the season, I'd agree with you.
> 
> But, in the spring, it's the difference between unstrapping on the sunny flats or making it to the next pitch.


Bachelor has the entire mountain accessible when the summit is open but lots of traversing which requires the quickest possible base. It's not the corn terrain its getting back to the lifts, especially at low spots


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## rambob (Mar 5, 2011)

ItchEtrigR said:


> restoring an well used board, trying to shave off a fraction of a second on a lap time or in a race this makes sense otherwise its a waste of time & money if you think your gonna get considerably faster in the spring wet...


Sorry, but^^ this statement is way wrong in relation to tuning a board for warm (spring) snow. Having the right structure is as important if not more important then wax in these conditions. If U have a well tuned board for these conditions U wont lag in the flats and your wax will last longer. The two keys are to have the deep machined structure and fourocarbon wax thats for the right temp (all temps dont work as good).....And ya got wax after every day U ride and brush the shit out it (forget about that scotchbrite).


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## Mizu Kuma (Apr 13, 2014)

A proper Structure is ground into the base, but finishing your wax with a brush (or even with scotchbrite) will put a light structure into the finish of the wax as well!!!!!

The brushed structure will wear off pretty much first run though!!!!!

Structured base finishes are also found in high end boards!!!!! My DC Devun has a "Structurn Base" that comes standard in that model!!!! This board is not designed as a Spring Slush Ride!!!!! 

Rockered Boards (and predominantly Rockered Hybrids) are the best for spring slush conditions, but a clean and properly waxed base will always run better than one that isn't!!!!!

Here in Australia we get probably the most extreme spring slush, and nothin will beat a properly waxed board!!!!!

Use a warm flourinated wax, and structure or not, brush or scotchbrite buff finish from tip to tail in straight lines!!!!! 

And if the base looks dirty, give it a proper clean before a deep wax!!!!!


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## Mizu Kuma (Apr 13, 2014)

Close up of my DC Devun!!!!!


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## hardasacatshead (Aug 21, 2013)

Mizu Kuma said:


> A proper Structure is ground into the base, but finishing your wax with a brush (or even with scotchbrite) will put a light structure into the finish of the wax as well!!!!!
> 
> The brushed structure will wear off pretty much first run though!!!!!
> 
> ...


!!!!! :blink:


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## Mizu Kuma (Apr 13, 2014)

hardasacatshead said:


> !!!!! :blink:


!!!!! :wacko:


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## jtg (Dec 11, 2012)

So, who can do this around Seattle/Portland?


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