# Burton Cartel vs Union Atlas



## Mystery2many

The Atlas base plate is more rigid than the reflex base plate. Not sure what a heel strap is but the ankle strap folds out of the way so you can easily strap in standing up without it springing back over the binding. Honestly both are great choices. Go with the one you personally like better. I vote Union.


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## robotfood99

Both good but I vote Cartel. The strap thing you describe with Burton bindings is the flex slider and its not an issue. You can flick it out of the way with your boot easily.


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## linvillegorge

I don't like Union's narrow, heavily padded ankle straps, so I vote Cartel. While the rest of the binding world moves toward wider ankle straps with less padding to distribute pressure evenly across the top of the boot, Union still sticks with a really narrow strap and tries to pad the hell out of it to make up for it. 










vs.


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## evan_pollack

Thanks for your input. Too bad I can't test them on the snow because I'm trying to make the best of the post season sales. :/


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## jae

I wish I had that ankle strap flex crap with mine. I ride cartels, the current things I wish for in my bindings would be the malavitas. lol


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## Nivek

That's OK. I've ridden both. I think the best thing for you with the Atlas is the fixed angle canting vs the Autocant on the Cartels. I tend to enjoy fixed angle more on decks with center rocke. However, the Burton's certainly have the advantage on durability. For that reason they'd be my choice from those options. 

On the other hand you can find Ride Rodeos for pretty solid prices, get the durability and the fixed angle canting. Rodeos are one of my go to bindings.


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## UNION INHOUSE

Nivek said:


> That's OK. I've ridden both. I think the best thing for you with the Atlas is the fixed angle canting vs the Autocant on the Cartels. I tend to enjoy fixed angle more on decks with center rocke. However, the Burton's certainly have the advantage on durability. For that reason they'd be my choice from those options.
> 
> On the other hand you can find Ride Rodeos for pretty solid prices, get the durability and the fixed angle canting. Rodeos are one of my go to bindings.


Yo Nivek - Just curious what part of the Atlas you think is less durable? 

Does the shop you work at carry Union?

Not looking to start any debates. Just curious is all.


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## evan_pollack

Nivek said:


> That's OK. I've ridden both. I think the best thing for you with the Atlas is the fixed angle canting vs the Autocant on the Cartels. I tend to enjoy fixed angle more on decks with center rocke. However, the Burton's certainly have the advantage on durability. For that reason they'd be my choice from those options.
> 
> On the other hand you can find Ride Rodeos for pretty solid prices, get the durability and the fixed angle canting. Rodeos are one of my go to bindings.


Thanks for replying. However, I have a couple more questions. Wouldn't having fixed canting reduce its versatility? Would I have to adjust to less of an angle if I wanted to spend more time in the park towards the end of the season when the mountains I go to are too slippery to ride the black diamonds?

Also, what effect would fixed canting have on riding a board with rocker between the feet?

These are the small details between the two bindings I would like to know. Thanks again.


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## linvillegorge

Autocant, fixed cant, no cant, whatever. Honestly, I'm the poster child for someone who should benefit from canting. I like a pretty wide stance and I've had multiple knee and ankle injuries. It doesn't make a meaningful difference IMO. As for fixed canting vs. autocanting, I literally can't tell a difference at all.

It's not a factor in my binding purchase decisions.


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## SteezyRidah303

evan_pollack said:


> Anybody have an opinion on which one is better? I heard the Atlas was more of a park binding even though it's fairly stiff and labeled as all mountain. I heard that the Atlas was more responsive than the Cartel even though they are both rated 7 in stiffness. Also does the heel strap of the Cartel get in the way when you are getting of a lift? I noticed that it falls down onto the board when your foot isn't strapped in.
> 
> I plan on using these bindings on a lib tech trs firepower with k2 thraxis boots. I mostly ride all mountain with occasional park laps.


Both good....Cartel toe caps are SUPER cumfy but the atlas is my favorite binding ive ever owned...plus union has lifetime warranties on the baseplate and high backs :grin:


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## SteezyRidah303

UNION INHOUSE said:


> Yo Nivek - Just curious what part of the Atlas you think is less durable?
> 
> Does the shop you work at carry Union?
> 
> Not looking to start any debates. Just curious is all.


I thought the *definition *of Durability *was *Union haha love you guys' stuff been rocking it for a while now. Only thing ive ever broken was the base plate on a pair of Contact Pros and they were able to hook it up! so even if you have a problem with durability, Union has you covered


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## SGboarder

linvillegorge said:


> Autocant, fixed cant, no cant, whatever. Honestly, I'm the poster child for someone who should benefit from canting. I like a pretty wide stance and I've had multiple knee and ankle injuries. It doesn't make a meaningful difference IMO. As for fixed canting vs. autocanting, I literally can't tell a difference at all.
> 
> It's not a factor in my binding purchase decisions.


^^^ Pretty much that. Heck for many people the boot/foot position shifts 1/2 to 1'' within the binding between runs which far more than offsets tiny adjustments like 1-2 degrees of canting.

Plus there really isn't such a thing as 'fixed' canting: As long as there is some sort of foam it will compress unevenly depending which part of the foot you put your weight on. How much depends on weight of rider, stance width, etc Probably even boot type, kind of sole, etc 

Some of my non-canted but cushy bindings give a more canted foot position than my bindings with traditional or auto cant.


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## evan_pollack

SGboarder said:


> ^^^ Pretty much that. Heck for many people the boot/foot position shifts 1/2 to 1'' within the binding between runs which far more than offsets tiny adjustments like 1-2 degrees of canting.
> 
> Plus there really isn't such a thing as 'fixed' canting: As long as there is some sort of foam it will compress unevenly depending which part of the foot you put your weight on. How much depends on weight of rider, stance width, etc Probably even boot type, kind of sole, etc
> 
> Some of my non-canted but cushy bindings give a more canted foot position than my bindings with traditional or auto cant.


Thanks I'm glad it doesn't make that much of a difference haha.


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## Nivek

UNION INHOUSE said:


> Yo Nivek - Just curious what part of the Atlas you think is less durable?
> 
> Does the shop you work at carry Union?
> 
> Not looking to start any debates. Just curious is all.


The biggest issue I guess isn't technically a durability issue as nothing is really breaking, but still an issue that causes new parts. Bolts backing out. I replaced more lost Union parts than any other brand. Burton was second which I would argue is more do to volume. The others we carry, K2, Ride, Now, Flow, and Salomon had less replaced, possibly even less all together. And for volume arguments we sold through K2 and Ride before Union with similar initial stock.

The second issue is strap durability. We see more shredded Union ankle straps than nearly any other. The seams haven't proven to hold up very well.

The third issue we see is stripped heelcups. It starts with the pinch bolts loosening which frees up the heelcup for slight shifting movement that worsens and eventually ends up fully slipping. I personally know 3 or 4 people with this issue.

The other we saw a couple of was the Trilogy and Contact Pro with the new frame cracking just around the strap mount. I can't say it's a real issue for sure or not as it's a new frame, but worth mentioning since you're asking.

I do work at a shop that sells Union. We sold Rosa, Milan, Trilogy, Legacy, Force, Contact Pro, Atlas, Rice, and have sold Ultra's and FC's.

Kudos on the Atlas though, I think it's the best Union I've ridden. A really solid and versatile binding.


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## Nivek

evan_pollack said:


> Thanks I'm glad it doesn't make that much of a difference haha.


Well that's one persons opinion. I personally feel a huge difference in density canting vs angled canting vs flat.


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## ekb18c

I enjoy actual canting vs autocant as it really helps my knee. I have pain on my front knee because of a wide stance. After 1 season on actual canted binding, the pain went away. From that day forth, I look for bindings with 2-3 degree canted footbeds. 

Both bindings are durable, however, the heelcup on the union just looks like crap after a few days because the paint chips off. It's minor and cosmetic but it happens. 

I love both unions and burtons but there are parts from each that i like more. I had issues with the union ankle straps with fitment and couldn't get the ankle straps from c3 so I bought Cartel ankle straps and it was the best thing ever for the Trice bindings. 

I like the union toe straps more. 

I like cartel ankle straps more, I like burton ankle straps more in general, be it from the genesis, vita, cartel or the diode.


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## SLiM253

UNION INHOUSE said:


> Yo Nivek - Just curious what part of the Atlas you think is less durable?
> 
> Does the shop you work at carry Union?
> 
> Not looking to start any debates. Just curious is all.





Nivek said:


> The biggest issue I guess isn't technically a durability issue as nothing is really breaking, but still an issue that causes new parts. Bolts backing out. I replaced more lost Union parts than any other brand. Burton was second which I would argue is more do to volume. The others we carry, K2, Ride, Now, Flow, and Salomon had less replaced, possibly even less all together. And for volume arguments we sold through K2 and Ride before Union with similar initial stock.
> 
> The second issue is strap durability. We see more shredded Union ankle straps than nearly any other. The seams haven't proven to hold up very well.
> 
> The third issue we see is stripped heelcups. It starts with the pinch bolts loosening which frees up the heelcup for slight shifting movement that worsens and eventually ends up fully slipping. I personally know 3 or 4 people with this issue.
> 
> The other we saw a couple of was the Trilogy and Contact Pro with the new frame cracking just around the strap mount. I can't say it's a real issue for sure or not as it's a new frame, but worth mentioning since you're asking.
> 
> I do work at a shop that sells Union. We sold Rosa, Milan, Trilogy, Legacy, Force, Contact Pro, Atlas, Rice, and have sold Ultra's and FC's.
> 
> Kudos on the Atlas though, I think it's the best Union I've ridden. A really solid and versatile binding.


Curious as to what the @UNION INHOUSE response will be. I have multiple pairs of various bindings from both Burton and Union. Various models have their own pluses and minuses and I have favorites from each. I have always questioned Union’s heel cup and highback/ankle strap bolt designs though. It seems like a slightly outdated design to me. If they were to update it, though, they’d risk upsetting the cult Union customer base that’s all about trading, mixing and matching parts to make franken binders and a design change could make a lot of parts less compatible. I understand the old “if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it” but there’s also “the more parts, the more possibility of failure”. I’ll still be buying bindings from both companies, but I do like having to check fewer bolts on my Burtons and not having to add more locktite before going out to ride. That being said, my superforces are hands down my favorite bindings of all time.


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## GDimac

My bro has the camo Cartels from last yr and I got to try the Atlas also from the shop owner at the local shop I always go to. Both are great imo esp for what you're looking to do. 

Tho I did feel that the Atlas felt a little more responsive than the Cartels. But I love how comfy Burton straps are. Also, for some reason, the toe strap always seems to slide down whenever I use Union (happened often with my Forces too, no matter how tight I made it). Never happened with my Vitas nor when I used the Now Drives (love these, will be getting these for upcoming season). 

But ya, both would work well imo, for what you're looking for.


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