# Boots faq and etc



## wrathfuldeity

Heel hold kit or make your own
http://www.snowboardingforum.com/boots/50617-thirtytwo-heel-hold-kit.html
If it is these, they go on the outside of the liner...between the liner/shell...in my pic the orange c's are covered with white tape so the don't rip off when I remove the liner from the shell after each day to dry both the shell and liner. The bigger thing is the butterfly, the upper things are the c's and below are the j's....the c's and j's go on each side of the liner, two per liner You can use any or all in a combination, imho/imhe use the butterfly first then add the c and later the j if you need more...adding layer/build up will pinch the heel/ankle more. If you get the foam sheet, just cut out in the same as in the picture. 

see the black circle on the liner's in the above pic...the butterfly is almost placed in the right spot in the above pic...that is where you paste the butterfly...then it wraps around the back to the other circle on the other side of the liner. Then if you need more pinch add the c or j bar on top of that...followed by covering it all with tape so that it doesn't rip off when putting the liner back in the boot. I don't know how much clearer it could be. perhaps try it with out peeling the backing of the sticky and just tape it on with some scotch tape...take some pics and post it up 

But before you do this; Are you adding any kind of footbed or heel lift to the liner? If yes, especially a heel lift; put the liner on first to confirm where your ankle bone is. It should sit inside the dark C of the boot liner.

The C shape (of the butterfly and C) are made to go around the ankle bone. Otherwise, you are creating a pressure point.


Boots with laces, or dual boas….you can do dual or zone tightness by how you lace them up....leave the bottom section loose, tie off at the ankle then cinch the cuff down tight

Have average size ankles and no ankle problems. I tighten the cuff to hold my foot into the heel pocket (which is mainly done with the inner laces on 32's) and more importantly so that I get the toeside leverage/response. Love the 32 focus boas for the ease of adjustment and often ride with the lower boa barely snug but cinch the cuff down and also have the inner lace pretty tight and it hasn't reduced blood flow to my foot. In the past had 32 305 and another model? with laces and actually the laces imho work better for more tweakability for comfort than the boas but the boas are so damm adjustable on the fly. I will often pop loose the cuff boa for the chair and then if dropping a gnarly line will really tighten them up verses just cruising groomers the cuff will be just snug.


Numb feet….
http://www.snowboardingforum.com/snowboarding-general-chat/50824-feet-going-numb-boots.html

I've got a high instep and a high arch and need a heel lift to fit my boot. It also pulls my foot back, so I can fit into my correct boot size (instead of sizing up). It is counter intuitive but it worked for me and I'm not going to question the boot fitter.

try insoles like superfeet or ed's sole and take a look at the above thread...

Originally Posted by wrathfuldeity 
fwiw foot numbness can also be from pressure on a peripheral nerve. Some of this is counter-intituitive...I used to have numbness but when I finally put in some good insoles that supported my high arch that did the trick and allowed me to loosen the lower boot, gain more response, comfort and no more numbness.

Cycle4fun…
Preventing numb toes while snowboarding

Dogfunk.com - Snowboard Boot Buyer's Guide from Dogfunk.com


I've spent an hour in a bike shop getting rid of hotspots. I ended up with a wedge, and a specialized insole with proper arch support and a metatarsal button to keep my feet bones from crunching on power transfer. This is the same type of problem, different sport. 


Boot maintenance and repair
Drying….if you can dry immediately after every day of riding, take the liners and insoles out. Use very low heat or no heat…just air flow works great.
Stench of boots, liners, gloves, goggle frames, jackets…my reciepe is to dip and soak with McNett MiraZyme…follow the directions…let it soak then just hang and let it air dry.

MiraZyme

If its really bad do the above and then; after its dry make up a paste of baking soda and water and smear it on…nice and heavy, let it dry. Then use white vinegar…pour it on, soak and let it foam; then rinse well with water and hang it in the bright sun to dry….this has not failed yet. Do it at the end of the season so you got fresh smelling stuff for the fall.

Boot repair…the best stuff used yet is again a McNett product called “Freesole”. Their “aquaseal” will also work but it is not as abrasion resistant and imho does not stick as well…but darn good. Use it where there is binding/boot wear, to seal up edge cuts and etc. As you can see the old 305’s are trashed (but feel like slippers) but are kept for back up and would last a couple of days.

Freesole® Urethane Formula Shoe Repair

Pics of stuff

hurricane tape and foam sheet with adhesive backing









right new liner, middle old liner with diy c and butter fly, left c and butterfly covered with hurricane tape









butterfly wrapped around back









butterfly covered









pad on the tongue to push back the ankle and to deal with a hot spot









right insole=trash, middle=abit better, left=good fit for me









note the arch support









dual zone lacing...tie a crossover knot and wrap around the boot (need long laces) to keep the foot loose and then cinch down the cuff









cinch down the inner lace harness to keep the foot pulled back in to the heel pocket


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## wrathfuldeity

moar pics....now I'm done


aquaseal









freesole...works better more durable than aquaseal









diy boot, liner and mitten dryer


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## slyder

wraith I like the boot glove dryer. 3 of us ride together often hard to dry out all the gear. I can do the plumbing, my question what are you using for a heat and blower motor source hard to tell from the pics.


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## wrathfuldeity

Slyder I had the same issue....trying to dry all the stuff. No heat...really just a small amount of air flow overnight and its done. It's just a small squirrel cage blower with electric motor that found for $5 at a building material recycle store a few years ago...its an all steel industrial thing that weighs like 20 lbs but is fairly quiet. It would be easy to jerry rig a bathroom or stove hood thing or one of those old portable hair dryers with to tube and plastic hair cap. The pvc and T's also gotten at the building recycle place; is not even glued up and there are caps to block off the un-used ones. The whole thing cost me about $15 and a few minutes of time.










Perhaps easier is like my diy ion cannon... a pvc 3 or 4" with an old (6 vdc iirc) computer fan wired up to a matching vdc wall wart then do up an adapter to the rack piping.


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## slyder

I love the computer fan idea cuz I have one. They are powerful and quiet. I'll post some pics of mine when I get here all done. Thanks for the idea and input !!!


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## chomps1211

Hey Wrath, (...you don't mind if I call U Wrath, do U?) :dunno: 
Great Topic & post! Very interesting information. I second the idea of a "sticky" or FAQ on the subject! Really appreciate your take on OP's boot fit/foot problem advise.

I've had shoe, boot (work/hiking/snow/cowboy) fit problems ALL my life. So I am keenly aware that OP's feet are not "_My_" feet!!! _(Although, I guess even a shot in the dark is better than nothing when you haven't a clue how to solve the problem.)_ I am fortunate in that after my first 5-6 weeks of "_Terrible_" trouble & intense pain while going through several different brands of SB Boots,.. I stumbled on to a pair that fit and feel pretty darn good. 

I also found your DIY gear dryer particularly interesting.
Might I suggest you split this post into two subjects, or post a second topic for the gear dryer? I only mention this because I think others would find it particularly helpful and it isn't something they would find unless they happened to be looking in to read more on the topic of your "Boot Fit Advise" like I did! 

Just a thought.

...besides, I would like to learn more about building one myself! (...I'm not particularly creative or intuitive with mechanical type stuff!! More of an "Arrteeeeast" myself!  )


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## grafta

Bump. This needs a sticky :thumbsup:


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## wrathfuldeity

*hot spots...potential remedy*

You can add or take away liner material. Adding involves adding bits of adhesive foam...and taking away involves shaving bits of the liner off. Put your foot in the liner, use a sharpie to draw or shade in exactly where the pressure points are. Then carefully remove a bit of the liner...I'd use a grinding wheel or a small grinding wheel on a drill or a wood rasp to just take-off maybe a 16th or 8th of an inche off that spot...A LITTLE GOES A LONG WAY...don't try to take too much off at one time. Then go ride and see if that does it, if not repeat. Once you get it tweaked then smear a bit of McNett freesole on top of the grind spot to keep the liner intact.

If you grind too much off, just build it back up with the adhesive foam.


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## pdxrealtor

Love the dryer. Shit, tapping a furnace supply line would take 10 minutes. In my house the heat is always on. 

Great post!


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## wrathfuldeity

Thanks Donutz for the sticky. 

Hopefully others will add to this. 

Apologies that the original was so disorganized...I was tired.


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## Board Gadget

wrathfuldeity said:


> Thanks Donutz for the sticky.
> 
> Hopefully others will add to this.
> 
> Apologies that the original was so disorganized...I was tired.


Well deserved!!


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## offtharailz

yep well said. like everything, you get what you pay for


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## neni

Wrath, could you replace the pictures... they're all gone


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## wrathfuldeity

Idk why they disappeared and if there is some way to do this other than with a pic hosting site, let me know. I tried to repost some of them and then got the bright idea to just make a link to the pic album...being a lazy sob.

https://picasaweb.google.com/wrathfuldeity/SnowboardParts#


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## wrathfuldeity

Updated link for pictures...unorganized and partly labeled but diy boot fitting ideas, riser plates etc.

https://picasaweb.google.com/wrathfuldeity/SnowboardParts#


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## Snowboard Sloth

*Please read this*

Hey I was wondering if regular boot laces can be upgraded to a Boa system without having to buy a whole new pair of boots. I am not sure and want to know b4 I go spending my money. Thanks, have a great season!


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## hktrdr

Snowboard Sloth said:


> Hey I was wondering if regular boot laces can be upgraded to a Boa system without having to buy a whole new pair of boots. I am not sure and want to know b4 I go spending my money. Thanks, have a great season!


For all intents and purposes, the answer is no.


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## wrathfuldeity

Just an update...

A link to some boot fitting stuff and might give you some ideas for diy...but these folks are very legit and know their stuff for all kinds of board and ski things.

Boot Fitting Foam Narrowing Pads


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## custom33

one last question before your done lol  i get that everyone's feet are different and you need to get out there and try on some boots but whatsup with the 1-10 scale on softer to responsive ,, how much of a difference is it??
for ex,, if you get a burton moto x pair they are on the softer side but and seem nice for about 150 but a pair of burton ions are 430and more responsive? could the motos still get the job done


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## wrathfuldeity

custom33 said:


> one last question before your done lol  i get that everyone's feet are different and you need to get out there and try on some boots but whatsup with the 1-10 scale on softer to responsive ,, how much of a difference is it??
> for ex,, if you get a burton moto x pair they are on the softer side but and seem nice for about 150 but a pair of burton ions are 430and more responsive? could the motos still get the job done


The difference in soft/stiff can be significant...but the more important question is...what is your riding style and terrain and which amt of boot flex will enhance your riding. A soft boot is generally for park and able to tweak grabs and stuff. A stiffer boot is generally for big mtn riding...where a stiff boot will help with leveraging/supporting big lines or high speed carves...like you want to be able to lean into a stiff boot and have it hold when you are railing at 50 mph or you need a quick assured response at 50 mph.


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## custom33

thanks man i just found this site and already everyone is so helpful. i like to cruise around the MT, carve it up a little butter, but at the same time i like to hit the terrain park,,, basically im going for a whole new setup with everything and wan more of a rocker board so im guessing go with a softer pair of boots?


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## Steez Pleez

*Laces may be one of the most important parts of boots*

I ride mostly park but have been using new waxed paracord laces to get the exact fit that I want in my boots and they have worked wonders. They don't come loose as I am tightening them and they stay tight all day long. They are amazing. You find those at waxdlaces.com


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## timmytard

custom33 said:


> thanks man i just found this site and already everyone is so helpful. i like to cruise around the MT, carve it up a little butter, but at the same time i like to hit the terrain park,,, basically im going for a whole new setup with everything and wan more of a rocker board so im guessing go with a softer pair of boots?


I wouldn't go looking for a soft boot, you'll end up breaking your ankle:icon_scratch: If your lucky:huh: 

Or you could tear all your ligaments & tendons:thumbsdown:
You'll never be 100% again after that. Ever.

Get a medium flex boot, you're not a tweaker yet

When you you can tweak them to the point where, now you need softer boots, that's when you get softer boots.:thumbsup:

Not before:thumbsup:


TT


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## GunsN

*Need some help*

Hello, I am a new for this forum, also new in snowboarding 
I was standing on the snowbard only one season and I love it.
I have bought burton custom x snowbard, burton cartel est bindings and now I need boots, can you help someone what kind of boots shoud I buy?
I have 41.5 EU size (8.5 US)


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## timmytard

GunsN said:


> Hello, I am a new for this forum, also new in snowboarding
> I was standing on the snowbard only one season and I love it.
> I have bought burton custom x snowbard, burton cartel est bindings and now I need boots, can you help someone what kind of boots shoud I buy?
> I have 41.5 EU size (8.5 US)


Where the hell are ya located Gunsn no boots?

You basically want an average pair of boots that fit your feet perfect.:thumbsup:

None of us know what that boot will be for you though?

Sometimes.... I can find good shit for people.:thumbsup:
For cheap too.:bowdown:


TT


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## GunsN

timmytard said:


> Where the hell are ya located Gunsn no boots?
> 
> You basically want an average pair of boots that fit your feet perfect.:thumbsup:
> 
> None of us know what that boot will be for you though?
> 
> Sometimes.... I can find good shit for people.:thumbsup:
> For cheap too.:bowdown:
> 
> 
> TT



Have you ever reed Dale Carnegie? if not, just do it.
thank you


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## timmytard

GunsN said:


> Have you ever reed Dale Carnegie? if not, just do it.
> thank you


No, I've never reeded it I've never ever hurd of it?

That's cool though, have fun reeding:laugh:


TT


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## chomps1211

timmytard said:


> No, I've never reeded it I've never ever hurd of it?
> 
> That's cool though, have fun reeding:laugh:
> 
> 
> TT


Lol! ...and you can have fun wriding while he's reeding! :thumbsup:


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## timmytard

chomps1211 said:


> Lol! ...and you can have fun wriding while he's reeding! :thumbsup:


0 yu bet or bee leave it!:yahoo::eusa_clap::icon_scratch:


TT


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## GunsN

Haha, very funny


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## poutanen

GunsN said:


> Have you ever reed Dale Carnegie? if not, just do it.
> thank you


What is this guy on???


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## GunsN

poutanen said:


> What is this guy on???


Do you have any problem?!


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## timmytard

GunsN said:


> Do you have any problem?!


Oh GunsN, I sure hope you're in some tiny Eastern block country?:dunno:

Cause if you're like 17 & born in the USA?

Oh my, you guys are fucked, as a nation.


TT


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## GunsN

timmytard said:


> Oh GunsN, I sure hope you're in some tiny Eastern block country?:dunno:
> 
> Cause if you're like 17 & born in the USA?
> 
> Oh my, you guys are fucked, as a nation.
> 
> 
> TT


I am a new member, it doesn't matter where I am from, I just wanted some advise and you all began laughing, it is not good habit!


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## timmytard

GunsN said:


> I am a new member, it doesn't matter where I am from, I just wanted some advise and you all began laughing, it is not good habit!


GunzN, The reason I said I hope you are in a small Eastern block country.

Is because some of your English isn't perfect, but if English isn't your first language, then you have a reason that it's not perfect.

But.....
If you were born in the United States & English is your first language?
and you still don't know ho to use it properly?

Then yes, yes, I am making fun of you:cheeky4:


TT


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## chomps1211

GunsN said:


> I am a new member, it doesn't matter where I am from, I just wanted some advise and you all began laughing, it is not good habit!



*coughDCcough*




timmytard said:


> Is because some of your English isn't perfect, but if English isn't your first language, then you have a reason that it's not perfect.
> 
> Then yes, yes, I am making fun of you:cheeky4:
> 
> 
> TT


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## poutanen

GunsN said:


> Have you ever reed Dale Carnegie? if not, just do it.
> thank you





poutanen said:


> What is this guy on???





GunsN said:


> Do you have any problem?!


Yes. Timmytard actually was giving you good advice. You may have miss-interpreted it, but the advice was good (i.e. buy the boots that fit, not what people on a forum tell you to buy).

Your next response is asking if Timmytard has read Dale Carnegie?!? Dale Carnegie is most famous for management courses and self-help books.

So you ask for advice, Timmy gives you good advice, and you tell him he needs to read a self help book?

I'll say it again: WHAT IS THIS GUY ON?

Either we need to go back to the drawing board with English skills, or I smell a troll...


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## Deacon

poutanen said:


> I smell a troll...


That's just your upper lip.


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## chomps1211

I repeat,...



chomps1211 said:


> *coughDCcough*


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## poutanen

The Deacon said:


> That's just your upper lip.


Aw shit I had some cheese up there...


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## GunsN

thanks for advices :eusa_clap:


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## chomps1211

GunsN said:


> thanks for advices :eusa_clap:


Where's GreyDragon when u need him? :laugh:


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## flipstah

So I have a weird dilemma. 

I have a Burton Moto in 8.5, which is my shoe size in a Converse.

I wear thick socks for warmth and I find that if I tighten the liner laces, the width of my foot gets sore very quickly. If I loosen the liner laces and just tighten the upper zone of my boot, then it's comfier but I find that sometimes, my feet 'pop' out of the heel and feels like I'm on the balls of my feet. 

If I pick a smaller size, then it's definitely too tight. Is there a brand that has a wide width profile? To give you a reference point, I find PUMA's very uncomfortable when I wear thick socks and have to wear dress socks.


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## Deacon

flipstah said:


> So I have a weird dilemma.
> 
> I have a Burton Moto in 8.5, which is my shoe size in a Converse.
> 
> I wear thick socks for warmth and I find that if I tighten the liner laces, the width of my foot gets sore very quickly. If I loosen the liner laces and just tighten the upper zone of my boot, then it's comfier but I find that sometimes, my feet 'pop' out of the heel and feels like I'm on the balls of my feet.
> 
> If I pick a smaller size, then it's definitely too tight. Is there a brand that has a wide width profile? To give you a reference point, I find PUMA's very uncomfortable when I wear thick socks and have to wear dress socks.


Are you looking for sneakers or snowboard boots?? Or does Puma make boots now too?:dizzy:


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## flipstah

Deacon said:


> Are you looking for sneakers or snowboard boots?? Or does Puma make boots now too?:dizzy:


Snowboard boots, of course. 

But certain brands fit wider/narrower than others and I've only tried Burton and thirtytwo. I haven't found a store locally that carries Adidas or Nike.


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## Deacon

Read:

http://www.snowboardingforum.com/boots/167369-brannock-measurement-snowboard-boot-sizing.html


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## flipstah

Deacon said:


> Read:
> 
> http://www.snowboardingforum.com/boots/167369-brannock-measurement-snowboard-boot-sizing.html


Thanks! I'll check this out and be educated.


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## Phedder

flipstah said:


> So I have a weird dilemma.
> 
> I have a Burton Moto in 8.5, which is my shoe size in a Converse.
> 
> I wear thick socks for warmth and I find that if I tighten the liner laces, the width of my foot gets sore very quickly. If I loosen the liner laces and just tighten the upper zone of my boot, then it's comfier but I find that sometimes, my feet 'pop' out of the heel and feels like I'm on the balls of my feet.
> 
> If I pick a smaller size, then it's definitely too tight. Is there a brand that has a wide width profile? To give you a reference point, I find PUMA's very uncomfortable when I wear thick socks and have to wear dress socks.


First I'd try with proper snowboard socks. Thin Merino ones would be best. Huge difference between an oldschool thick sheeps wool sock and a thin merino one designed for snowboarding/outdoors.


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## bksdds

-Little note from the company that makes freesole. Thanks for making a great product.


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## basser

I want to put a heel grip in my boot to see what kind of difference it makes. I have some of those regular gel heel grips. Would I put them inside of the liner or outside?


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## Deacon

Not exactly sure what a heel grip is, but j bars and c bars go on the outside of the liner.


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## basser

Deacon said:


> Not exactly sure what a heel grip is, but j bars and c bars go on the outside of the liner.


A heel grip is just one of those things you put in the back of your shoe if it's too big. The one I have is pretty much horizontal but the two ends drop down a little bit.

I guess I will put it outside of the liner?


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## Deacon

basser said:


> A heel grip is just one of those things you put in the back of your shoe if it's too big. The one I have is pretty much horizontal but the two ends drop down a little bit.
> 
> I guess I will put it outside of the liner?


Oh, I'm not sure that you'd even feel that through your liner. I think you'd be better off with a c bar.


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## basser

Deacon said:


> Oh, I'm not sure that you'd even feel that through your liner. I think you'd be better off with a c bar.


gotcha. Where do they sell c / j bars? I saw in a couple threads tognar's was mentioned, is that still a thing?


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## chomps1211

basser said:


> ...I saw in a couple threads tognar's was mentioned, is that still a thing?


Yes!
5678910


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## Deacon

basser said:


> gotcha. Where do they sell c / j bars? I saw in a couple threads tognar's was mentioned, is that still a thing?


I believe so., but I make my own, wrath has a thread on boot hacks.


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## basser

chomps1211 said:


> yes!
> 5678910


5678910???


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## basser

Deacon said:


> I believe so., but I make my own, wrath has a thread on boot hacks.


Cool, I will take a look. In general though, you put it outside of the liner right?


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## Deacon

basser said:


> 5678910???


He was just getting the minimum 10 characters to post. 



basser said:


> Cool, I will take a look. In general though, you put it outside of the liner right?


Yes.


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## SGboarder

basser said:


> Cool, I will take a look. In general though, you put it outside of the liner right?


Footbeds/tongue shims generally inside the liner.
Almost everything else (J bars/c bars/butterflies/other heel hold aides, foam padding, etc) generally outside the liner.
Heel wedges/cups are case-by-case ( often inside the liner but it depends - eg wedges/heel lifts generally go outside).


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## chomps1211

basser said:


> 5678910???


10 character minimum for a post!!! >

Tognar.com


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## basser

Deacon said:


> He was just getting the minimum 10 characters to post.
> 
> 
> Yes.





SGboarder said:


> Footbeds/tongue shims generally inside the liner.
> Almost everything else (J bars/c bars/butterflies/other heel hold aides, foam padding, etc) generally outside the liner.
> Heel wedges/cups are case-by-case ( often inside the liner but it depends - eg wedges/heel lifts generally go outside).





chomps1211 said:


> 10 character minimum for a post!!! >
> 
> Tognar.com


Alright, I'll try what I have right now, and likely pick up something from Tognars.


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## Winter_Lion

Thanks @wrathfuldeity for the insightful thread. After being fitted by Wiredsport on his thread, my only option for my wide foot was a snowboarding boot half a size bigger, I have already gotten some Surefeet insoles. So, after two days riding in my boots I'm experiencing heel lift, I'll definitely get started in that. Should I start now before my boot actually packs out or start with the butterfly adjustments then c and j bars?

Sent from my VK410 using Tapatalk


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## wrathfuldeity

Winter_Lion said:


> Thanks @wrathfuldeity for the insightful thread. After being fitted by Wiredsport on his thread, my only option for my wide foot was a snowboarding boot half a size bigger, I have already gotten some Surefeet insoles. So, after two days riding in my boots I'm experiencing heel lift, I'll definitely get started in that. Should I start now before my boot actually packs out or start with the butterfly adjustments then c and j bars?
> 
> Sent from my VK410 using Tapatalk


WinterLion...ru the one that bought 32 lashed boots and your one foot is 1/2 size smaller?...If not, what do you got?


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## Winter_Lion

wrathfuldeity said:


> WinterLion...ru the one that bought 32 lashed boots and your one foot is 1/2 size smaller?...If not, what do you got?


No, from wired's thread I got the Salomon Dialogue Wide Men's Size 7 because they don't sell 6.5 in men's. I believe that according to my measurements this means I'm a little more than a "C" wide in women's but just under the men's...

My measurements are:
Left foot: 24. 3 cm Length/9.646 inches
9.2 cm width/3.622 inches

Right foot: 24.5cm/9.843 Length
9.4 cm/3.701 inches


Sent from my VS990 using Tapatalk


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## wrathfuldeity

winter-lion...well to me the numbers don't mean much but to get you in the ballpark. Hopefully you have gotten to try on the dialogues. 

ime, as long as your foot is not getting severely pinched width wise or toes...length wise, you are good...so as you are able to wiggle the tootsies. But the arch/instep thing is more of the issue; in part due to support of the arch (thus the aftermarket insoles that fit your arch) and the insoles help to keep your foot planted inside your boot/liner. I have 32 focus boas and can/do leave the tension fairly loose and at times even unlatched in the foot/lower boa. The lower boa is just to hold your foot in place with enough pressure to keep your foot planted on the insole...it does NOT take that much pressure...And in fact if you are crank it too much you will definitely get pain, numb feet and feel like your foot is getting crushed...because it is.

However, as for the inner lace that holds the ankle and heel in the heel pocket...that is locked down...about as tight as I can pull it. This inner lace is what holds the foot back and locks down the ankle...so that there is very little/no heel lift. You will see in some of my responses...the reference to using "butterfly" wraps...the reason, is the butterfly actually creates a deeper heel pocket and has the potential to mould around the back of the ankle above the heel (skinny part)...and thus help to lock down the heel...due to the creation of the deeper heel pocket.

As for the cuff, i.e., the upper boa...that is snugged down pretty firmly...because the cuff area of the boot/leg is what gives you the leverage to engage your edges. If you have too much slop in the cuff you can't get the power, leverage or support of driving your knees and thus pressuring the edges of the board. This is also where adding some foam to the outside of the liner on the tongue...this will help to push the heel back into the heel pocket and give you a bit of extra padding on the shin...so that you can really cinch the inner laces. 

ime, the above works for me. But also ANTICIPATE that you will have some packing out...so when the packing out occures then you will feel it and adjust/add more foam as needed. Again at some point...the packing out will stop (at least in my case with 32 intuition liners) and hopefully you will have made the adjustments/modifications so that they will fit like slippers for years...until the boot shell gives out. Right now on my white 32 focus boas...iirc have 5-6 seasons = maybe 125 days and probably next year...this summer will looking to replace das boots


----------



## Jman1115

What is a good brand of boot to get? I Nearest boot fitter is 3 hours from me. My goal right now is to get a good brand of boot and mess with it from there. I was looking at a pair of DC boots?


----------



## Snow Hound

Jman1115 said:


> What is a good brand of boot to get? I Nearest boot fitter is 3 hours from me. My goal right now is to get a good brand of boot and mess with it from there. I was looking at a pair of DC boots?


There's a lot of good brands but they all fit a little different. The best brand for you is the one that fits. If you haven't already, measure your feet and work out exactly what size you need and go from there.


----------



## bksdds

Deacon said:


> I believe so., but I make my own, wrath has a thread on boot hacks.


Ya, he does. This very thread page #1 .


----------



## wrathfuldeity

BA has kicked up an excellent series on boot fitting. Go watch it even if you dont think you have boot issues...its pure gold, straight from the leppercon himself.
THANKS @BurtonAvenger


----------



## BurtonAvenger

wrathfuldeity said:


> BA has kicked up an excellent series on boot fitting. Go watch it even if you dont think you have boot issues...its pure gold, straight from the leppercon himself.
> THANKS @BurtonAvenger
> 
> https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=QaWEpvPSess#


You mean Cenacorn sir.


----------



## chomps1211

wrathfuldeity said:


> BA has kicked up an excellent series on boot fitting. Go watch it even if you dont think you have boot issues...its pure gold, straight from the leppercon himself.
> THANKS @BurtonAvenger
> 
> https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=QaWEpvPSess#





BurtonAvenger said:


> You mean Cenacorn sir.


I wuz wunderin' why there wasn't more (any?) buzz surrounding BA's new boot fitting video series around here...? (I only just discovered & binge watched it myself a couple days ago.)  

As wrath mentioned,.. some pure gold in that series. I'm planning on saving a little of my disability payments to join the pay wall. (...looking forward to the monthly stickers!) :laugh: :cheer:


----------



## BurtonAvenger

Probably a combination of it being July, I didn't promote it outside the usual channels, and snowboarders are not doing snowboard things right now.


----------



## QwertyDaz

Hello,

I'm new to snowboarding, currently having indoor lessons in the UK and in the process of booking a trip for next Jan/Feb. Based on my experience of hire boots at my UK lessons I'm keen to get hold of my own boots before going.

I measure 29.8 cm heel to toe and standard width (can't remember the measurement) but I never need wide for football boots, golf shoes etc. and I know I generally have a narrow heel. 

I have a friend who went and bought everything new for his first trip last winter and after four days he quit and spent the rest of his holiday in the bar. He's offered me his 2018 Salomon Launch BOA SJ (2018) for a bargain price of £45 and they look unused to the eye. 

They are size UK 12 (31.0) which is a full size larger than my measurement (I've read all I can about fitting on this forum) but I've tried them on a few times over the past week and walked round the house up to an hour at a time. My toes are just about touching the liner front and I have plenty of wriggle room with no noticeable heel lift when trying to simulate turns. 

Now on to the point of my post - are Salomon boots known to come up small? I've put my foot over the standard insole and it doesn't seem like I have 1 cm of space past my toes. 

Would his four days of falling over have packed them out much? How much packing out can I expect in a week of riding - although they feel fine now I don't want them to be huge.

I know the ultimate answer is get fitted for new boots, and I probably will if I like this trip and plan another. 

Thanks


----------



## Myoko

I was told the best boots are the ones that fit your feet and have found that to be good advice for 20 years, regardless of the brand. A professional boot fitter is worth their weight I have found although all boots pack out and die eventually. Joeysmyoko helped me last year and sold me a pair of Strapins which also made a big difference to my heel lift and response.


----------



## SGboarder

Myoko said:


> I was told the best boots are the ones that fit your feet and have found that to be good advice for 20 years, regardless of the brand. A professional boot fitter is worth their weight I have found although all boots pack out and die eventually. Joeysmyoko helped me last year and sold me a pair of Strapins which also made a big difference to my heel lift and response.


If power straps such as Strapins make a big difference for heel hold, your boots do not fit well or your boots are almost certainly too large.


----------



## Myoko

Understand that ALL boots pack out and eventually you will have heel lift, especially in your back foot if you do a lot of tree riding in powder. This includes high-end boots that were perfect and fitted by a professional boot fitter and less than a season old and I have had many such boots over the years.
They definitely help with heel lift, but I didn't buy them for that purpose. I bought them for backcountry insurance but found they are worth keeping on everywhere. Or just buy a new pair of boots every year if you like.


----------



## Kenai

Myoko said:


> Understand that ALL boots pack out and eventually you will have heel lift, especially in your back foot if you do a lot of tree riding in powder. This includes high-end boots that were perfect and fitted by a professional boot fitter and less than a season old and I have had many such boots over the years.
> 
> They definitely help with heel lift, but I didn't buy them for that purpose. I bought them for backcountry insurance but found they are worth keeping on everywhere. Or just buy a new pair of boots every year if you like.




The point is to buy boots to fit your foot AFTER they pack out. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Billsc43

Have been reading a lot of great advice on this forum, so throwing my situation out there for help: I have small hobbit feet: 25.5cm with max width 9.5cm about where the forefoot meets the mid-foot. Based on my research, that lines up with size 8 in regular width. However, when I’ve boot shopped in the past, even a size 9 tends to feels like a boa constrictor on my foot, so I tend to size up. I typically wear a 9 dress shoe due to what I perceive is a fairly narrow heal, but 9.5 or even 10 in atheletic shoes to get a comfortable fit. I don’t believe I have a severely high arch, but the top of my foot is high and boney.

Long story short, both pairs of boots i’ve owned have killed the top of my back foot. The Burtons I had caused enough of an issue I sometimes struggled to ride back to back days. I upgraded to some Rides a few seasons back, and they are better, but by afternoon the pain shows up and gets a little worse with each lap. Everything else feels fine, top of the foot pressure point is the only issue.

Other background is I play hockey and I like to put my boots on like a skate - very snug and secure for max control. I’m wondering if I’m buying a boot that’s too big based on comfort standing in the shop and tieing them so damn tight I’m self-inflicting the pain. Is the solution to get used to a smaller boot that’s not tied as tightly?

Looking a new dual-BOAs for an upcoming trip. Really don’t want to spend that $$$ on another pair of painful boots. Thanks a ton to anyone who can help.


----------



## Wiredsport

Billsc43 said:


> Have been reading a lot of great advice on this forum, so throwing my situation out there for help: I have small hobbit feet: 25.5cm with max width 9.5cm about where the forefoot meets the mid-foot. Based on my research, that lines up with size 8 in regular width.


Hi Bill,

25.5 is Mondopoint 255 or size 7.5 US in snowboard boots. 9.5 is E width and would require a specific Wide boot. Before we get there, please post up images of your bare foot while taking the measurements below.


Please measure your foot using this method:

Kick your heel (barefoot please, no socks) back against a wall. Mark the floor exactly at the tip of your toe (the one that sticks out furthest - which toe this is will vary by rider). Measure from the mark on the floor to the wall. That is your foot length and is the only measurement that you will want to use. Measure in centimeters if possible, but if not, take inches and multiply by 2.54 (example: an 11.25 inch foot x 2.54 = 28.57 centimeters). For width please place the inside (medial side) of your foot against a wall. Please then measure from the wall out to the widest point on the lateral (outside) of your foot.


STOKED!


----------



## Myoko

Kenai whilst a well-fitting boot may remain comfortable for years, it will start to pack out quickly and I have found a distinct difference in less than a week power, control and response wise....with high-end well-fitted boots of all descriptions.
When it happens (not if) this WILL lead to slower transitions and less response in your turns with absolute certainty but people just adapt and think that is normal. It does not need to be is my point.
A well-fitted boot is crucial, just don't expect it to last for long in the same condition you purchased it as there will be a lag when you lean into a transition. A strap of any description you can actually lever fixes that response time. Don't believe me, try it and see.


----------



## Wiredsport

Myoko said:


> I was told the best boots are the ones that fit your feet and have found that to be good advice for 20 years, regardless of the brand. A professional boot fitter is worth their weight I have found although all boots pack out and die eventually. Joeysmyoko helped me last year and sold me a pair of Strapins which also made a big difference to my heel lift and response.


Hi Myoko,

Have you taken your barefoot measurements yourself as a reference? If not, that would be a great idea. 

Please measure your foot using this method:

Kick your heel (barefoot please, no socks) back against a wall. Mark the floor exactly at the tip of your toe (the one that sticks out furthest - which toe this is will vary by rider). Measure from the mark on the floor to the wall. That is your foot length and is the only measurement that you will want to use. Measure in centimeters if possible, but if not, take inches and multiply by 2.54 (example: an 11.25 inch foot x 2.54 = 28.57 centimeters). For width please place the inside (medial side) of your foot against a wall. Please then measure from the wall out to the widest point on the lateral (outside) of your foot.


----------



## Wiredsport

QwertyDaz said:


> Hello,
> 
> I'm new to snowboarding, currently having indoor lessons in the UK and in the process of booking a trip for next Jan/Feb. Based on my experience of hire boots at my UK lessons I'm keen to get hold of my own boots before going.
> 
> I measure 29.8 cm heel to toe and standard width (can't remember the measurement) but I never need wide for football boots, golf shoes etc. and I know I generally have a narrow heel.
> 
> I have a friend who went and bought everything new for his first trip last winter and after four days he quit and spent the rest of his holiday in the bar. He's offered me his 2018 Salomon Launch BOA SJ (2018) for a bargain price of £45 and they look unused to the eye.
> 
> They are size UK 12 (31.0) which is a full size larger than my measurement (I've read all I can about fitting on this forum) but I've tried them on a few times over the past week and walked round the house up to an hour at a time. My toes are just about touching the liner front and I have plenty of wriggle room with no noticeable heel lift when trying to simulate turns.
> 
> Now on to the point of my post - are Salomon boots known to come up small? I've put my foot over the standard insole and it doesn't seem like I have 1 cm of space past my toes.
> 
> Would his four days of falling over have packed them out much? How much packing out can I expect in a week of riding - although they feel fine now I don't want them to be huge.
> 
> I know the ultimate answer is get fitted for new boots, and I probably will if I like this trip and plan another.
> 
> Thanks


Hi Qwerty,
Yes, Mondo 310 will be a full size to large for your measurements posted above. Please let us know your width measurements as well. In regards to the insert, you ill not have 1 cm of insert past your foot. Your foot will overhang the insert by ~1 cm.


----------



## Billsc43

Wiredsport said:


> Billsc43 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Have been reading a lot of great advice on this forum, so throwing my situation out there for help: I have small hobbit feet: 25.5cm with max width 9.5cm about where the forefoot meets the mid-foot. Based on my research, that lines up with size 8 in regular width.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 25.5 is Mondopoint 255 or size 7.5 US in snowboard boots. 9.5 is E width and would require a specific Wide boot. Before we get there, please post up images of your bare foot while taking the measurements below.
> 
> 
> Thanks, Wired.
> 
> Snapped these photos earlier roughly confirming the original measurements. (Pardon my abused paws).
> 
> Thinking I’ll try to find a shop that carries ThirtyTwos which I have read are higher volume/slightly wider on average. Maybe Nidecker (Flow) as well. Would appreciate your take on where I should start.
> 
> Much appreciated!
Click to expand...


----------



## Wiredsport

Billsc43 said:


> Wiredsport said:
> 
> 
> 
> 25.5 is Mondopoint 255 or size 7.5 US in snowboard boots. 9.5 is E width and would require a specific Wide boot. Before we get there, please post up images of your bare foot while taking the measurements below.
> 
> 
> Thanks, Wired.
> 
> Snapped these photos earlier roughly confirming the original measurements. (Pardon my abused paws).
> 
> Thinking I’ll try to find a shop that carries ThirtyTwos which I have read are higher volume/slightly wider on average. Maybe Nidecker (Flow) as well. Would appreciate your take on where I should start.
> 
> Much appreciated!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hi Bill,
> 
> I am not finding your images. Please repost those. Neither of the boots you mentioned would be suggested for E width. Only Salomon produces for E width (only their Wide Models). Before we get there we should confirm your measurements with images.
> 
> STOKED!
Click to expand...


----------



## Myoko

Hello Wiredsport, 

Appreciate the advice re measuring foot, I have bought enough shoes and made enough mistakes over the years so now go 100% on feel. What actually fits my foot, length, width and stiffness. Toes needing to touch the edge uncomfortably and then they will eventually get better after a lot of pain in just a dumb plan, going through pain to break a boot in is simply not necessary in my view.

I have yet to buy the boot I had researched and actually wanted though to be honest as I always end up with whatever boot fits my foot the best. But get a good boot fitter and give yourself lots of time to try on boots, both are worth making the effort to find I believe. Works for me anyway


----------



## Wiredsport

Myoko said:


> Hello Wiredsport,
> 
> Appreciate the advice re measuring foot, I have bought enough shoes and made enough mistakes over the years so now go 100% on feel. What actually fits my foot, length, width and stiffness. Toes needing to touch the edge uncomfortably and then they will eventually get better after a lot of pain in just a dumb plan, going through pain to break a boot in is simply not necessary in my view.
> 
> I have yet to buy the boot I had researched and actually wanted though to be honest as I always end up with whatever boot fits my foot the best. But get a good boot fitter and give yourself lots of time to try on boots, both are worth making the effort to find I believe. Works for me anyway


Hi Myoko, 

If you ever want to check your fit we can do that with ease. What you wrote about boots going south for you that quickly is quite common when riders are buying larger than Mondopoint. You may have it just right, but it is always worth the 2 minutes it takes to check. We are here if you would like to see. STOKED!


----------



## Myoko

Must admit I have never heard of Mondopoint. I did the measurements and I am 27.5cm by 10.5cm and I always end up in a size US10 or size US10.5 boot as boots tend to vary with different manufacturers. I'd rather a 10 so I can use medium bindings. I'm pretty anal about making sure my toes are not in pain and my heel feels firm and I tend to get stiff boots without much give if possible.


----------



## Wiredsport

Myoko said:


> Must admit I have never heard of Mondopoint. I did the measurements and I am 27.5cm by 10.5cm and I always end up in a size US10 or size US10.5 boot as boots tend to vary with different manufacturers. I'd rather a 10 so I can use medium bindings. I'm pretty anal about making sure my toes are not in pain and my heel feels firm and I tend to get stiff boots without much give if possible.


Hi Myoko,

27.5 cm is Mondopoint 275 or size 9.5 US in snowboard boots. I would strongly suggest that you also measure your barefoot width (directions above). Thanks


----------



## neni

Myoko said:


> Toes needing to touch the edge uncomfortably and then they will eventually get better after a lot of pain in just a dumb plan, going through pain to break a boot in is simply not necessary in my view.


It is inevitable that liners will break in. They loose volume. That's how liners are. Thus... you have two choices: buy too large boots to circumvent the break in "pain" and end up with a too large, no heel hold, non-responsive boot as soon as liners broke in and then try to tinker the lost heel hold by using jbars, add insoles with footbed to avoid slipping around in the now too big boot.

Or: buy a correctly sized boot which indeed is uncomfy the first days, but will fit once broken in.

I (and a ton of other ppl here) have been in the first group many years (in my case 15 years). With all the tinkering and lost response and heel lift and cranking down ratchets n overtightening to compensate for lost response swimming in too big boots which were "comfy" "fitting" when buying. 

And since this was continuously miserable, I dared the experiment and believed Wired (of course after the same arguing; BTW: I'm surprized he has the patience to go through those arguments again and again with all the ppl here) and sized down. And see? After initial two-three uncomfortable days when boots were too narrow around heel or too short around toes? They broke in and THEN fitted perfectly for the next 80 days.

Of cours, simply choosing the right size won't guarantee that the boot fits. Width, heel, and arch height need to fit, too. But once you find that model _in the correct size_? Life will get easier. 

The other thing is response... every boot will get softer by time. This as well is inevitable. Thus buy the boot stiffer than you want them in the end. If you really really want a very stiff boot, check 32 Jones MTB (iirc you do BC riding, right?). That's as stiff as one can go. But be prepared to go through some initial uncomfortable days cos it will be uncomfortably stiff at the beginning until it breaks in. Then it becomes just very stiff . (Whereas Deeluxe XV went from stiff to mid-stiff with use).

Good luck!


----------



## Myoko

That was my barefoot dimensions. 27.5cm by 10.5cm ....probably closer to 28cm. I see where 28 is US10 and 27.5 is US9.5.

Nahhh i don't subscribe to the buying too small as I have had boots that crushed my toes for months until I took them to someone that extended them perhaps less than .5cm. I actually discussed this with a guy today who fixed my back foot boot who is a professional boot fitter and he had the same opinion. Mind you, he also sold me the boot originally  Depends on the boot also I imagine


----------



## chomps1211

@Myoko, Check out Angrysnowboarder.com for their "Boot Fitting 101" series. 

What you're describing with the "_toes_" jammed uncomfortably into the end of the boot? That's what AS describes as a "Performance fit!" 

*That* fit is *not* recommended for the majority of ppl buying boots. That type fit is only for the hard core shredder looking for a super responsive fit that won't pack out in 20 days. :shrug: 

A regular fit is where the toes _just_ touch the tip of the boot liner while standing up straight. With knees bent in a riding stance, your toes will/should pull back slightly.


----------



## Myoko

!00% agree chomps. I think what people don't reflect on is at the top of the boot when it starts to pack out. When you lean into your turn your response time between transitions is much slower and many are unaware of it/put up with it when it can be fixed quite easily.


----------



## Wiredsport

Myoko said:


> That was my barefoot dimensions. 27.5cm by 10.5cm ....probably closer to 28cm. I see where 28 is US10 and 27.5 is US9.5.
> 
> Nahhh i don't subscribe to the buying too small as I have had boots that crushed my toes for months until I took them to someone that extended them perhaps less than .5cm. I actually discussed this with a guy today who fixed my back foot boot who is a professional boot fitter and he had the same opinion. Mind you, he also sold me the boot originally  Depends on the boot also I imagine


Hi Myoko,

I see your issue. 10.5 cm wide is an EE width at 27.5 cm. This will never work well in "normal" width snowboard boots which are D width. Essentially your Boot is too long but not wide enough. This is extremely common. If you try on your correct Mondopoint length it Feels too short. This is because the toe box is not wide enough. The arc of the toebox is designed for D width feet so your EE width feet are too long at the outsize of the arc. Your fitter and boot fitter should have picked up on this. Sadly this gets missed all the time. 

If you post up images of your barefoot length and width measurements being taken I can correct this for you. This problem always leads to boots becoming essentially useless after pack in. It becomes a very expensive habit to try to keep buying boots that are really only in usable condition for two weeks .


----------



## Wiredsport

chomps1211 said:


> @Myoko, Check out Angrysnowboarder.com for their "Boot Fitting 101" series.
> 
> What you're describing with the "_toes_" jammed uncomfortably into the end of the boot? That's what AS describes as a "Performance fit!"
> 
> *That* fit is *not* recommended for the majority of ppl buying boots. That type fit is only for the hard core shredder looking for a super responsive fit that won't pack out in 20 days. :shrug:
> 
> A regular fit is where the toes _just_ touch the tip of the boot liner while standing up straight. With knees bent in a riding stance, your toes will/should pull back slightly.


Hi Chomps,

This is part correct. A performance fit is when riders are going smaller than their Mondopoint range (which is .5 cm). When you are within the .5 cm of your Mondopoint range you are in your standard suggested fit. This is still how every snowboard boot is designed (it is actually the core principle of the Mondopoint standard). This has been our stock suggestion for 25 years. Firm pressure, not just touching is the key:


Your boots should be snug!
The most common complaint about boots is that they are too loose, not too tight. The junction between rider and board begins with the boot, as it is in the most direct contact with the rider. When fitting boots, use the following method: A. Slip into the boot. B. Kick your heel back against the ground several times to drive it back into the boot's heel pocket. C. Lace the boot tightly, as though you were going to ride. NOTE: This is where most sizing mistakes are made. A snowboard boot is shaped like an upside down "7". The back has a good degree of forward lean. Thus, when you drop into the boot, your heel may be resting up to an inch away from the back of the boot, and your toes may be jammed into the front of the boot. Until the boot is tightly laced, you will not know if it is a proper fit. D. Your toes should now have firm pressure against the front of the boot. As this is the crux of sizing, let's discuss firm pressure: When you flex your knee forward hard, the pressure should lighten, or cease, as your toes pull back. At no time should you feel numbness or lose circulation. Your toes will be in contact with the end of the boot, unlike in a properly fit street or athletic shoe (snowboard boots are designed to fit more snugly than your other shoes). When you have achieved this combination of firm pressure and no circulation loss, you have found the correct size!


----------



## wrathfuldeity

If you have high arches and burning pain/pins and needles....take a look at this thread.

https://www.snowboardingforum.com/boots/260493-foot-burn-foot-pain-pins-needles.html


----------



## Snowboarderfresh

Woo that's impressive. Thanks


----------



## Snowboarderfresh

I am new snowboarder starts from this snow season, and I bought a the cheapest Decathlon boots recently. Found a problem, each time when i go snowboarding and put my feet in the boots for just 1 hour, my dogs barking so bad. I was thinking maybe I tied too much tight maybe? But even that tight when I slide down the hill(*face towards mountain top*) I feel my feet are about to get out from the boots. Shall I change a even smaller boots? Any suggestions will be highly appreciated


----------



## Wiredsport

Snowboarderfresh said:


> I am new snowboarder starts from this snow season, and I bought a the cheapest Decathlon boots recently. Found a problem, each time when i go snowboarding and put my feet in the boots for just 1 hour, my dogs barking so bad. I was thinking maybe I tied too much tight maybe? But even that tight when I slide down the hill(*face towards mountain top*) I feel my feet are about to get out from the boots. Shall I change a even smaller boots? Any suggestions will be highly appreciated


Please measure your feet using this method:



Kick your heel (barefoot please, no socks) back against a wall. Mark the floor exactly at the tip of your toe (the one that sticks out furthest - which toe this is will vary by rider). Measure from the mark on the floor to the wall. That is your foot length and is the only measurement that you will want to use. Measure in centimeters if possible, but if not, take inches and multiply by 2.54 (example: an 11.25 inch foot x 2.54 = 28.57 centimeters). For width please place the inside (medial side) of your foot against a wall. Please then measure from the wall out to the widest point on the lateral (outside) of your foot


----------



## Snowboarderfresh

Wiredsport said:


> Kick your heel (barefoot please, no socks) back against a wall. Mark the floor exactly at the tip of your toe (the one that sticks out furthest - which toe this is will vary by rider). Measure from the mark on the floor to the wall. That is your foot length and is the only measurement that you will want to use. Measure in centimeters if possible, but if not, take inches and multiply by 2.54 (example: an 11.25 inch foot x 2.54 = 28.57 centimeters). For width please place the inside (medial side) of your foot against a wall. Please then measure from the wall out to the widest point on the lateral (outside) of your foot


Thank you so much, I will try and hopefully I will find the perfect fit boots.


----------



## elkhart

I'm litteraly getting crazy trying to find my size for snowboard boots.
I've read what wiredsport said and done it, bare foot against a wall : 28,8 cm/28,6cm and 10,3 width.
But i can't find a size chart with the width. 
I'm also worrying with what i've red : to take 0,5 shorter than your mondo size.
For example : should i get a 28,5 in nitro ? I was in a shop and had for sure bad advice, i said i was 46 in nike and people gave me 45 1/3 in Nitro team wich is a 30.. I could still feel the end of the boots while standing, that's why i think that 2 size shorter would be very short.

I ask all of this because where i am i can't find any shop, and i'm so tired to travel to try 1 boot that i will order online some.



Elkhart


----------



## Wiredsport

Hi Elkhart,

Your measurements above are Mondopoint 90 or size 11 US in snowboard boots. 10.3 cm is a "normal" D width at this size. You will not want to go smaller than your Mondopoint size but Mondopoint 300 is too large. Just touching the end of the boot is too large. You will want to have firm pressure (both toes and heels) into the compliant materials of the liner. 

If the assistance provided has been helpful to you, your positive reviews on either of the sites below (or both) would be greatly appreciated. STOKED!











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----------



## elkhart

Thank you a lot !


----------



## wrathfuldeity

Hi All, 
The reason for this sticky thread was to help folks figure out the boot thing. And as @neni notes all boots will soften and pack out...even performance fit boots will need tweaking.

Also figure to link for folks wanting to explore or go the AT/hardboot route. To which at this point I will likely never go back to soft boots again. But AT boot fitting is a similar process and will still pack out and will need tweaking. So below is abit of my journey to AT boots.









The hardboot ride...downhill?


Just some thoughts on riding in hardboots...since I haven't seen much but the statement that the ride down is less than desirable than with soft boots. Thoughts on hardboot riding: So currently have 6 days with hards-on...its like taking Viagra. Moi, 60yrs, 5”6”, 172 lbs (goal to get to 160)...




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## wrathfuldeity

Some thoughts about packing out and old liners (copy paste from another thread)

Depending on where/what is packed out and has created space/looseness...will depend on what mod or bits of foam to add. Definitily support @WigMar thought of strategically adding foam. A few thoughts:

Perhaps if its just general looseness and your footbed/insoles are good, just put in a thin pice of plastic or plain flat converse tennis shoe foam under your current insole. This will take up a LOT of volume...a little goes a long way...like a 16th or an 8th of an inch. Its basically a "boot shim" that will soak/suck up perhaps 1/2 mondo size. Its a cheap and easy fix that is also easily reversible. I'd recommend maybe starting here first.

Often times its not the packing out of the lower boot/foot...because we like abit more room for da tootsies. But it is the heel pocket and we are getting heel lift...So you make the heel pocket deeper by adding a 1/2 butterfly and perhaps some j/c bars to get the heel held down And sometimes you need some foam bit on the outside of the tounge liner to help keep/push your foot/heel back in to that new pocket. Thus you keep some space for your toes and fore foot and instep/arch that will help with circulation issues...But will lock down your heel and cuff...which is where you get your leverage and power...especially if you are more of a freerider/carver style rider.

For re-heat moulding the liner, ime it will work...BUT it only works for a short time...a few days. It will re-expand the foam liner (intuition liners ime) but the liners will pack out again in short order...so why bother. Imho the since your liners are already moulded to your foot and are perhaps comfortable except for some volume issues, its better to pursue the 2 above options first.

edit: ...so if your toes are sore at the end of the day...I'd suspect that your foot is moving fore/aft and you are getting "toe bang"...So good insoles with good/proper arch support will help. And perhaps a bit thicker/more volume via the boot shim...And the foam bits on the tongue liner will all help...presuming that you are not having heel lift issues. If you are having heel lift issues...make a deeper heel pocket.

And another thing...if you have old liners that have all your tweaks to a performance fit slippers but your boots are trashed....just put your old liners in the new shells and you don't need to mess around with break-in and all that stuff. Anyway that is what I've done with my old 32 focus boas soft boots...new shells and old liners...works great. And its probably what I will at least try with my AT boots when the time comes. Thus the moral of the story...save your old liners. It iwll also act as a guide of what and how much to mod new liners...old liners are a valuable source of information for future boot fitting and tweaks.


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## wrathfuldeity

Link to thread of Kijiami boot mod of blowing out the shell of the boot. Great job!









I successfully heat molded my burton boot shells


I figure I should share how I managed to heat mold my burton photon wide boot shells to accommodate my super wide foot. Firstly my foot is wide AF, EEEE with what they call the 6th toe (hello Springfield) which is an even wider part behind the little toe, and the worst part is my big toe does...




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