# Riding a 181



## schmitty34 (Dec 28, 2007)

You really don't need a board that big. 181 is huge. Even if you gained some more pounds as you got older, that is still pretty large. If you really want a big board and just want to do big carves, sure, you can probably get away with it. 

What makes you want such a big board? You can find plenty of smaller boards with big waist widths that will support your size and be WAY quicker and responsive. 

I'm 6'4 200 and ride a 161 C2 board. My older board was 167. I think you could be looking at a board in the high 160s unless you are dead set on a really big board.


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## HoboMaster (May 16, 2010)

181? I didn't know they still made snowboards that big. Sounds pretty excessive if you ask me, there are lots of guys around your size or bigger who ride much smaller boards.

Something to keep in mind is that rental boards mostly suck, and are not a good representation of what a good board should ride like. The Storm is a freeride stick for sure, which means it's made to handle that type of riding. Because it's made to handle that type of riding, a huge one would likely just be cumbersome.

I would personally stick in the 160's range, with all of the new technology out there most of these boards ride bigger then they are anyways.


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## MrOverkill (Jan 19, 2011)

I'm really not sure why I want a big board, it's just that in every sport I've done that involves a board, a big one has just felt "right". I started surfing, and when I was 8-10 I tried a 6' shortboard, but just couldn't ride it. Ended up moving to 9-11' longboards (keep in mind that that was when I was 10). Also, directly related to snowboarding, I know that rental boards are not a good representation, but I tried to ride a 164, and it felt too short, not in the noodlyness department or anything like that, it just felt unstable/like it just wasn't there. I took one run and went back for the 168.

I'm pretty set on the 172 or 181 Storm for the reasons I mentioned earlier (boot size, Venture makes great boards, I like the storm).

Is there anything wrong with my logic that I can get a 181, learn how to ride it on the 10-15 days I have at Alpine (Shitty boring repurposed landfill) and go out West after that? Because I've been getting really bored at Alpine, and I think that having a challenge to learn how to ride the board would help with my boredom.


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## HoboMaster (May 16, 2010)

You can go any size you want, it's just that the bigger the board - the harder to initiate and make turns. Every turn is going to take more effort and you will lose maneuverability. When you go out West your terrain is not going to be limited to shitty, flat wide open groomers. Your going to have powder, trees, bowls, steeps etc...

Having a lot of maneuverability on those types of terrain is very important. Grant you I'm 145lb 5'7, but I freeride on a 151 and love it because It's incredibly responsive and I never have to worry about making hairpin turns.

Honestly, humongous freeride boards have kind of become a thing of the past. More then anything they limit your riding.


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## MrOverkill (Jan 19, 2011)

I always thought that going out West would give me more room, the fun runs at Alpine are maybe 40' across. I probably won't do trees, as I wouldn't really trust myself on any board not to hit a tree (if the forests out there are as dense as our Ohio Maple forests. I'll have to take another look at the specs (I don't have acrobat installed on my comp, so looking at the specs PDF is a real pain.) But I might end up getting the 172. I was also thinking to get the 181, and then later on (one or two seasons from now, pick up a Prior Pow-Stick in a 176 or 167 for my shorter board.


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## HoboMaster (May 16, 2010)

MrOverkill said:


> I always thought that going out West would give me more room, the fun runs at Alpine are maybe 40' across. I probably won't do trees, as I wouldn't really trust myself on any board not to hit a tree (if the forests out there are as dense as our Ohio Maple forests. I'll have to take another look at the specs (I don't have acrobat installed on my comp, so looking at the specs PDF is a real pain.) But I might end up getting the 172. I was also thinking to get the 181, and then later on (one or two seasons from now, pick up a Prior Pow-Stick in a 176 or 167 for my shorter board.


You are true to your name MrOverkill :laugh: :laugh:


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## Lstarrasl (Mar 26, 2010)

You're only 14? WTF are you eating?


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## MrOverkill (Jan 19, 2011)

Yeah, Unfortunately I didn't have the funds for some Malamutes, or ThirtyTwo Primes, but I am getting the Raiden Machines, and probably next season I'll sell my Rulers and pick up a pair of stiffer boots.

I think I'm going to stick with the 181, because I don't know how much I'm going to grow (One side of the family is weightlifters, the other 6'8 to 7' tall, I was predicted to be 6'8, but I think I'll settle somewhere around 6'3, 300# when I'm a senior (I'll be playing football/doing shotput through High School, so I will bulk up like mad). And I can always learn to deal with a harder turn initiation. The fact that the Pow-Stick rides shorter than its length (Shorter contact edge, higher sidecut radius) should allow me to pick up a nice higher maneuverability board later on.

Also, I'm not particularly fat either, I've been around 200 from my fatty days at 9 or 10, I was about 5'4 and 200, I've fluctuated within about 15 pounds in either direction until this Spring, when I started working out a little bit and hit 220.


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## schmitty34 (Dec 28, 2007)

"More space" doesn't necessarily mean wider more spacious runs. The mountains are bigger and the terrain is more varied, but it just becomes steeper and more challenging....and WAY more fun. You can stick to the easy groomers and they will probably be longer than what you have, and maybe wider depending on the run, but like you said, those runs start to become boring. 

If you really want to have fun snowboarding you will want to progress and take on more challenging terrain or start trying tricks or things like that. That is what prevents snowboarding from getting boring. If I just stuck to cruising the easy blue runs I would get bored and quit snowboarding.

My concern for you is that if you get a huge board, progressing and taking on more challenging/fun runs will be difficult. 

Definitely go with the 172 instead of the 181 if you really want a big board....although I think you still might be better off with something smaller, but it sounds like you really want a big board.

EDIT - didn't see your last post when I posted this. If you really think you are going to be a big guy, I understand the desire for a bigger board. There is one really big dude on this forum (i.e. 6'9ish and high 200s) so you should ask him.....I forget his name, but I'll post it back here once I remember. He rides boards in the mid 160s I think.


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## MrOverkill (Jan 19, 2011)

I will say that there is no way I'm going to do tricks. As I've stated, I've had two brain injuries in the past, so I'm not to keen on anything past just riding. When I ride however, I love to carve and go fast, but due to my fear, I have to have a rock solid ride to bomb anything. That's my logic behind the bigger board.

Also, just checking the specs, Venture doesn't reccomend the 172 for anyone over 205#. I'll probably be hitting 250 sometime this year.

Looking at the Pow Stick, I think it will be a good twist to get when I have more money (i.e. for next season or the season after) as it has a hybrid rocker (rockered nose, cambered rest of the board) and shorter running length than the Storm.

I'm really sorry if it came across as me being a hardheaded asshole here. I heard everything everyone is saying, it's just that because of my fear, I'm willing to give up a little maneuverability for some stability (I have the brute muscle to swing the tail into a skid very quickly if I ever needed to stop quickly)


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## MrOverkill (Jan 19, 2011)

So I emailed Venture today, and the first thing I want to say is that I was surprised and pleased by how fast they replied. Without further ado, here is my conversation:

MrOverkill: Hey, I was just wondering if you guys could help me out. I am looking to buy one of your Storm models (not splitty) and was wondering if you could help me with sizing. I ride a size 12-13 boot with a low angle rear binding, so the 27cm waist is pretty much a must as far as I'm concerned. The question comes to my riding style. I ride a lot of groomers for the time being, but I'm going to be moving to a different location which will open up a lot of powder/fun longer runs. I'm about 6' tall, 225 pounds, probably going to grow to about 6'3 and between 250 and 300. Is the 181 right for me? I don't do any park, and since I've had two concussions, I like a more stable ride as it gives me a sense of safety.

Thanks in advance


Venture Snowboards: Thanks for your email and your interest in Venture. You're on target with the waist width, but length is a really tricky thing to make a recommendation on since so much of it comes down to personal preference. You would be within the recommended range for either the 171 or 181. I would suggest you go shorter if you think you will be riding mellow terrain or a lot of tight spots like trees (shorter = greater maneuverability) or if you like a little bit more flex (as our boards get longer they also get stiffer). You might go longer if you think you'll be riding mostly open steeps, or like a stiffer deck. You might also go longer if you think you are looking to get something you can grow into over time. The quadratic sidecuts make our boards super stable so I wouldn't necessarily think you should size up just for stability's sake. You might also think about what length board you are riding now and use that to help you gauge. If the 181 is a really big jump in size from what you're riding now (5 cm or more) it will be a big adjustment, so you might consider the shorter of the two. Hope that helps!

Think snow

MOK: Thanks for your help. I think I'm going to go for the 181 for a stiffer deck/stability as I plan on getting a Prior Pow Stick in a 167/176 in a year or two. Just so you know, I picked the Pow Stick because it's a bit softer, a bit shorter, but still has the build to float in powder (no offense to Venture, but I just didn't see anything that fit in your lineup, but I'll definitely check before I buy).

Thanks again for your quick response, it's always good to have a company that's willing to help out their customers.

VS: Glad I could help Sam. FYI, I consider the Storm to be a great design for deep snow - the taper, rocker and softer/pointier nose really help keep it on top of the pow. However it can still handle chop and crud really well too. I ride it both solid and split in all kinds of conditions and love it. 

think snow,


And...if you like the swallow tail shape of the pow stick stay tuned. We are probably going to have a late season release that you will like.

(This part has me on edge... but I don't want to wait until mid season, so I'll give them a season or two to perfect design)

MOK: Man, if you guys are coming out with a swallowtail, I might have to get that. I love the fact that you guys give your boards a 2 year warranty, and the fact that you guys are right in the heart of snowboarding, so you guys actually know what's up with your boards.

You guys are great. My preorder for a 181 Storm will be in shortly.


Thanks so much for all you guys' help. Just thought I'd give you my final decision.


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## SHREDDER97 (Aug 1, 2010)

I would definitely suggest a smaller board. I would go in the 160s. Venture makes great boards but i assume they are more geared towards powder. You might want something a little more all around. Look into the never summer heritage it would suit you well imo.


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## MrOverkill (Jan 19, 2011)

Thank you for your input. I've decided on the 181 due to Venture's advice. They make and ride their boards, so I assume they know best how they react.


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## Argo (Feb 25, 2010)

Why ask for advice if you made your mind up already. I ride all mountain/freeride and think your crazy to think a 181 is a good length. Im 6' 290. I ride a 159w and thats down from the 164w I also have. You don't have the powder out there to justify that size of a board. If you grow to 6'9" then you will be ok when that happens. Riding crap rental boards can't give you the real feel of a board. However, its your money.....

Now that I live up in Vail full time I will likely get a 168w for powder days.....


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## Argo (Feb 25, 2010)

Im a 13 boot.....


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## Justin (Jun 2, 2010)

lol why ask for advice when you already made your mind up. not 1 person has said that you should get it. most of these ppl know what they are talking about. you are making a mistake. most would now say but do what you want cause they are polite. its to big. don't buy the 181. but we all know your going to buy it anyway.


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## kung-POW (Mar 16, 2011)

Wow.. 181cm for your size is ridiculous! That's like to the top of your head! I know guys who are much bigger than you riding mid 160's. Why not buy a board to get you started atm, and buy a bigger board down the road if you actually get to the size that would require a 181??


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## CheeseForSteeze (May 11, 2011)

a 9'-11' soft longboard for a new surfer is pretty common, regardless of body size. Buoyancy forces make a surfboard capize very quickly once past the balance threshhold. A long board helps with this when you are learning. Plus, when learning you are usually on small, slow waves (1-3' swells) and you basically have to have a longboard to catch a swell that small at all. Anyone who rides a 6'-5'6" shortboard is at least an advanced to pro rider who is cutting very gnarly slashes on tight, fast and probably big barrels.

I wouldn't use the fact you rode a longboard to mean you need a 181. Anything that long is probably an alpine racing deck that is super thin and ridden with a direcitonal stance. Go with a 165+ directional that has a stiffer flex pattern and damping for the riding you want to do.


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## howeh (Jun 2, 2011)

I'm 6' 6", 250lbs and ride a 169W (size 15 feet). It's just about the right length for me. 181 is serious overkill man.


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## MrOverkill (Jan 19, 2011)

Justin said:


> lol why ask for advice when you already made your mind up. not 1 person has said that you should get it. most of these ppl know what they are talking about. you are making a mistake. most would now say but do what you want cause they are polite. its to big. don't buy the 181. but we all know your going to buy it anyway.



I hadn't made my mind before this thread, I based my decision off of what Venture has said to me. My logic is that they build and ride their boards, so they will have the best idea of what's going to fit me.

Again, I don't mean to offend anyone with my choice, I hear you guys, and understand your logic. However, with the advice Venture has given me, I am going to go with a 181.


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## threej21 (Jan 2, 2011)

just to give you more comparison...im 6 foot, 205-220#, sz 12 boot, and ride a 156 W and have no problems whatsoever....cant even imagine riding a board that is 25 cm BIGGER


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## MrOverkill (Jan 19, 2011)

Venture says, and I quote here, "You would be within the recommended range for either the 171 or 181" Ok, I'm good with either a 171 or 181, let's see what they have to say about both: 

"I would suggest you go shorter if you think you will be riding mellow terrain or a lot of tight spots like trees (shorter = greater maneuverability) or if you like a little bit more flex (as our boards get longer they also get stiffer)." Ok, When I'm out here for this one season, this could be a good decision.

"You might go longer if you think you'll be riding mostly open steeps, or like a stiffer deck. *You might also go longer if you think you are looking to get something you can grow into over time*." Ok, this might be the better choice, as everything after this year will be steeps/powder bowls. Keeping in mind that *I'm already out of their recommended weight range for the 181 and only looking to gain.*

I hope that explains my reasoning. I don't mean to discredit you guys' helping me, but between the specs they write, the response they give me, and my own personal feelings (mainly related to my head injuries, not just I WANT A 181) I've made a decision. Thank you all for your help, I don't mean to seem like a hardheaded ass, but from the information presented to me, this is my decision.


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## Justin (Jun 2, 2010)

LOL these are from your posts.

post 1"Just want to get your thoughts. *I'm pretty convinced* on the Storm, and the 27 cm Waist (I ride a low angle rear binding and size 12 boots)."
post 2 "*I'm pretty set *on the 172 or 181 Storm"
Post 4 "*I think I'm going to stick *with the 181,"
lol get whatever board you want no one acutally cares we don't have to ride it, but at what point were you open to suggestion?


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## Argo (Feb 25, 2010)

Not to mention the guys @ venture are up in silverton with probably some of the most consistent deep powder in the usa other than alaska with steep and difficult terrain. Your 14 with experience on Shit snow and Shit hills with even shittier rental gear.... your ahs and head injuries are obviously swaying your decisions. Hope it looks good on your wall....


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## schmitty34 (Dec 28, 2007)

MrOverkill said:


> I hadn't made my mind before this thread, I based my decision off of what Venture has said to me. My logic is that they build and ride their boards, so they will have the best idea of what's going to fit me.


I'll give this one more try even though I gave up last week because it was clear you were going to choose the 181 despite every experienced boarder on here telling you it was wrong.

There are two things wrong with your post here....

1 - even the venture guy tried to steer you to the 172. He said maybe consider the 181 if you want to grow into it, but really, he was saying the 172 is better for what you need. 

2 - Yes they make and ride their boards, but they have no idea what type of rider you are. If he knew you were 14 and only ride mellow groomers he probably would have told you that the Storm is a bad board for you period...regardless of size. That thing is built for steep powder filled runs. When I say steep, I mean a steep that you literally have never seen on the mountains you ride. Even their website says it's build for "big lines in burly terrain"....something you probably will never touch. 

anyway, you know everyone thinks this is the wrong board for you so it's up to you. I just wanted to point out the flaw in your thinking.

If you really trust the venture guy, email him again and give him a very honest assessment of the type of snowboarder you are. If you say, "I'm 14 and only ride mellow groomers," he'd be a liar if he said the Storm was right for your.


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## AAA (Feb 2, 2008)

Geez, the kid's 14. Take it easy people! 

OP, I don't know what that particular board is, but all else being equal, the longer board will cut through chopped up snow / crud better and won't throw you around. It is also going to be more stable at speed, like you say. It will also be faster, much faster, and will need more room to run full bore without checking your speed. The shorter board, on the other hand, will be more manueverable. I've been a freerider/freecarver as well for 20 years, though I ride alpine boards, with a 182 being my go-to board. It's ideal for 90% of the riding I do, and I make it work for the other 10. A 181 may be ideal for most of what / how you like to ride as well. Just realize that it will also require more aggressiveness to make it turn tight in traffic or close terrain, bumps, etc., that you'll be hauling butt when you're carving, and the thing will probably feel lethargic at slower speeds and/or on green runs. Just some things to consider for your age or if you're worried about injury. If you have to have the 181, go for it, ride it hard and enjoy. But if you have reservations about riding something quite so full-on, you may reconsider the 171. Both lengths are considered "long" by current trends, not that you should put much stock in that. Be realistic about how you ride, your ability, and what you want to do, especially if mom and pop are footin' the bill. Take it from there and choose your stick. And if you decide to stick with the 181, then welcome to the world of long boards.


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## schmitty34 (Dec 28, 2007)

AAA said:


> Geez, the kid's 14. Take it easy people!


Take it easy? We are trying to prevent him from buying the wrong board and wasting his money which he has already said is limited.

When giving your input, did you realize that he is 14 and a beginner snowboarder (his own words, not mine)? He is afraid of head injuries because he caught an edge and hit his head. IMO, a long stiff board is not the best for a beginner that is worried about catching edges. That 181 storm is going to be a tough board to ride for a beginner. 

Long and stiff is stable if you know how to use it. If not, it just makes snowboarding harder.


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## HoboMaster (May 16, 2010)

schmitty34 said:


> Long and stiff is stable if you know how to use it. If not, it just makes snowboarding harder.


This. If you are not an experienced snowboarder riding a stiff, long traditional camber board is going to be extremely unforgiving: As in eating shit, alot, often times going fast. 

It's the last board a beginner-intermediate should start out on.


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## linvillegorge (Jul 6, 2009)

181 is absurdly huge. I'd love to hop on that thing in a big, open bowl of bottomless pow, but that's about the only thing that board is good for IMO.


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## MrOverkill (Jan 19, 2011)

Well, now that I actually got a chance to ride the board, I figure I might as well let you guys know how it turned out.

Yes, in difference with all of your advice I bought a 181. I know, what a douche, right?:laugh:

I went to SLC for a snowboarding trip from 3/17 until 3/24. Overnight the first day the canyons got about 2' of snow. It was amazing. First day was at Snowbird, it honestly sucked. First day back on a board in over a year, conditions I'd never ridden before, and a board that was significantly different from anything I'd ridden before. Snowbird was thoroughly tracked out and riding the the crud while getting used to such a radical setup is just brutal.

Second day showed about 8" of new snow overnight as I recall. This would be the last for the rest of the trip. We went to Brighton. This day was the best day of the trip. 2' of powder on the harder runs, not nearly as tracked out as Snowbird had been, and I was getting used to the board. It was starting to get to be a ton of fun in the deep stuff. The big soft nose and hard tail made it incredibly easy to get on plane and turn in powder.

Third day was back to Snowbird, lots of fun again, even though conditions were getting worse. No new snow, but it had stayed cold, so hiking to Peruvian still yielded about 2-3' of nice powder. Another great day.

From the fourth day on it got bad. The weather got warmer and then froze overnight. It was not completely iced over, but it was not nearly as fun as the powder days. The board held well to the slopes on this mashed potatoes day. I believe we were still at snowbird.

Fifth day was at Solitude, I had tweaked my ankle on day four, and the slopes were icy as hell at Solitude, ended up washing out on my edges all morning, sliding down the hill on my ass.:laugh: By mid-day the sun had come out and softened up the snow a good bit and I was able to lay deep trenches. Unfortunately, the only video I have is of me doing a nice laid-over carve, hitting a rut, sketching out and rolling head over ass backwards. Now I know how much you guys would love to see that, but I'm not ready for that level of internet infamy.

Sixth day was back at Snowbird, snow was a lot softer, slush is no fun, but I had a blast with my buddies. Board was a little hard to handle going edge to edge, but length wise it was stable as all get out. I really enjoyed the speed of the board and the stability. Edge holding was quite nice, and durability was very good. All that being said, none of those combined equal how much fun it was in the powder.

Thank you all for your advice, and if I buy another board it will be shorter for the non-powder days, however I had a ton of fun on this board and do not regret the purchase one bit.


As to anyone reading this thread, keep in mind I'm a fatass (6' #250) if you're much smaller you will probably not have as much fun as I did.

Take care friends.:thumbsup:


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## seant46 (Dec 8, 2009)

Its good you had fun on it. If you truly advance in boarding though one day you will realize that thing is holding your progression back. a 181


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## walove (May 1, 2009)

if making nice turns at speed is your main focus then going long is the right decision. Im smaller than you at 170 pounds and have rode up to a 174 and the stability at speed and edge hold is unmatched. When conditions get bumpy you tend to slow down, and long boards perform better at higher speeds. More experience and stronger legs will help a lot. As well as picking the best line down the slope, Carrying speed through a section and placing a turn in a more open area, srubb some speed and keep going. 

My other advise is get some stiff boot and bindings, it take a lot more force to drive a big board and soft gear designed for a 150lb guy on a noodle 152 dose not work well.


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## poutanen (Dec 22, 2011)

I gotta say 90% of you guys in this thread are hilarious! It's like if a board gets over 169 cm you guys think it's some concrete toboggan or something! If you're looking at pure weight, I'm 175 lb and according to Burton and the snowboard calcs a 159 is about right for me. I was considering a 163 to open it up even more... In fact I still am thinking about it.

To for me, the weight to height ratio is 1.1... Take that out to a 250 person and 227cm comes up. Again I'm talking about weight alone here don't jump all over me people! Now I'm 5'7" and again on a 159. If he's 6'3" now, he's 11% taller than me. Do the math and that works out to a 178 cm board. Shit, alpine boards are in the 180 range.

Here's my final though on this matter.


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## Ttam (Jan 20, 2010)

Yea I got to say a 181 is fucking HUGE. I was riding a 163 before I went down to a 153 park board and it made a huge difference. Hucking around a 163 is hard I couldn't imagine how hard a 181 is. No two boards are going to ride the same.
Ive played around this year on a couple of boards. My Arbor, the buddies bataleon, capita and a K2 www. The arbor is very washy/quick? If that makes sense? You can revert it a lot easier compared to the buddies capita which is like on rails. It takes time to get used to a board. Especially when you down size is pretty much what Im getting at. I would know. It took me almost a whole season to get used to the Arbor.


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## ETM (Aug 11, 2009)

I am 6'3" 240lb. My first board was a 172 camber board, I found it difficult to negotiate and over the next few years I rode shorter and shorter boards all the way down to 159 with rocker. These boards seemed fun and were easier to throw around than my 172 but now I am back on my original 172 camber board and loving it, the difference is as snowolf said, my skill level. Big boards are where its at for me, but it took a few years to get to this point.
I am currently building my first board, its a 180 powder board that comes up to my nose.


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## cjcameron11 (Feb 5, 2011)

I was going to comment on this then decided not to, now i have decided to chuck in my opinion.

First off I'm probably one of the bigger snowboarders going around, I'm 6'11 and weigh 270 - 275lbs. I have about 45 days under my belt so i am by no means an expert BUT from my own experience, i started on a 169W and after my initial 20 days or so i downsized to a 166W (different camber too) to ride something more lively and less of a plank. I know at least 3 guys my weight that all ride boards shorter than 168. These guys range from a 1st year to a seasoned vet, along with most others on this forum i think you have made a big mistake.

I also agree with Snowolf, after reading your review on your plank i laughed when you said you were laying down carves, cmon man seriously do you actually think that you could carve a board after so few days? I know you feel the need to justify your purchase to save face, and i understand how hard it is to admit you are an absolute tool who can't take good advice on board.

Im glad that your new board has shown some durability after "6" days on it, i mean lets face it if you had of got a shorter board it probably would have snapped in half due to the extreme terrain and forces put on that board in those 6 days. Ohh btw i don't consider 2 - 3' of snow "powder riding" i could be mistaken but i thought resorts classified powder days as 6 or 8 inches plus. Anyway thats beside the point, what you should do is say to yourself: 

"Self, i fucked up, I can be an immature teenager sometimes and i guess thats ok cos I'm 14, BUT i am going to admit that i can be wrong and do myself a favour, I'm going to return/sell the board and buy something that will actually help me to enjoy the sport more and progress quickly, sincerely myself"


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## MrOverkill (Jan 19, 2011)

Thank you all for your input, now a few things.

#1: I probably used the wrong term of "laying down trenches" I got caught in the memory. However, I was carving (this is not my first season, that was probably days 35-41 snowboarding for me.

@Snowolf: Yes, the 172 might have been more fun from a quick turns standpoint. However, I have no interest in riding chutes at this point, and I much more enjoy the stability at speeds granted by the 181. As for not progressing past bombing blues, I was riding ungroomed blacks by day 3, following my friends who had been skiing for 10+ years (One of them was a friend's dad who was on the German GS team back in the day). As to not having to use a board like this to "float in powder", no, I didn't have to. Did it make it easier? Yes. Did I feel like it made my trip un-fun? No.

@CJCameron: You're big, you like to ride short boards, some people are tiny and like to ride long boards, it's all a matter of preference. Admittedly, my choice here removes itself from the standard deviation by quite a bit, but it is still an expression of my preference. Second, do I think I could lay carves? Yes. You want to know why? Because I went back and looked at the trail left by my board from the run. There was no skidding. Only the snow displaced by the edge through the carve. As I said before, I got caught up in the memory and may not have been "laying trenches", but I certainly was locked into a nice carve. If I had gotten a video other than me sketching out, doing something stupid, and flipping around, I would have posted it here. 2-3' is about 60-90cm of snow. I think that's a powder day, especially given that the people at Snowbird were saying it was one of the best days of the year. Just for your information, the single tick (') means feet, and the double (") means inches. The durability came from running into some rocks on the last day due to making a stupid decision. I ran into some rocks that tore the hip of my pants open, gave me a softball sized bruise, and a nice scrape about 5" long on my hip. I expected some major edge damage, as well as serious damage to the base or topsheet. All that happened was a couple 3mm nicks in the topsheet, cosmetic, and nothing to bitch about.

In summary, might I have picked a better board for my all-around needs? Definitely. Did I? No. Did I still have a lot of fun on this board? Yes. Do I regret buying it? Not at all. Do I have significantly less knowledge than many on this board? Yes. Are their criticisms of me valid? Yes.

Thank you all for your advice. If anybody feels disrespected, I apologize. I did not intend that in the slightest. As to a shorter board, I was planning on buying a shorter board anyway. This is a humongous dedicated powder board, is it going to be good for all conditions? Fuck no. Was it great for me where I wanted it to be and good enough everywhere else? Yes. So now, I'm probably rambling on a bit and should shut up.


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## dreampow (Sep 26, 2011)

Thing is why ask for advice if you have already decided what to do?:dunno:

People give their advice most of it sensible and based on years of experience. Then you choose to ignore it and go with your own idea based on your very limited knowledge and experience.

10cm may not sound like a lot but it makes a huge difference to the amount of space you need to turn the board. I started out on a 165 and now mostly ride a 157 or 158. I am 175lbs.

I have a 161 and enjoy riding it too. It takes a little more effort, but a 181 is pretty hard core and specialized. 

You can certainly ride it and enjoy it, but if I were you I would try out a wide board in the 166-168 range in the next year.

As people have said you will probably soon realize that being able to make quicker sharper turns is safer and allows you to ride much more kinds of terrain.

Bombing blues gets boring fast.

Enjoy the board and maybe you can learn to be less stubborn and open to advice from more experienced people.

Could save you a lot of wasted time and money in life.


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## cjcameron11 (Feb 5, 2011)

_Thank you all for your input, now a few things.

#1: I probably used the wrong term of "laying down trenches" I got caught in the memory. However, I was carving (this is not my first season, that was probably days 35-41 snowboarding for me._

well maybe we all were confused because in your first post you said you had 10 - 15 days on a mountain. Maybe you meant one mountain specifically, or maybe you have ridden some more days since your original post, anyways i would still love to see you carving on the 181.

_@CJCameron: Second, do I think I could lay carves? Yes. _

good for you


_2-3' is about 60-90cm of snow. I think that's a powder day, especially given that the people at Snowbird were saying it was one of the best days of the year. Just for your information, the single tick (') means feet, and the double (") means inches. 
_
Yeah i know the difference thanks mate, i obviously misread it, but thanks for pointing me in the right direction smart ass

_The durability came from running into some rocks on the last day due to making a stupid decision. I ran into some rocks that tore the hip of my pants open, gave me a softball sized bruise, and a nice scrape about 5" long on my hip. I expected some major edge damage, as well as serious damage to the base or topsheet. All that happened was a couple 3mm nicks in the topsheet, cosmetic, and nothing to bitch about._

MAYBE if you were riding a SHORTER more maneuverable board you wouldn't have hit those rocks 

Anyway I'm not going to continue an argument/stupid discussion over the net with a 14yo, the fact is people tried to help, you ignored them and came back to make a point like you were right, when anyone who knows anything at all can see you made a mistake. Cheers


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## cjcameron11 (Feb 5, 2011)

Snowolf said:


> Something just isn't adding up here. First off the guy does not even remotely sound like any 14 year old I have ever seen on a forum ever. Secondly, this has been an exercise in futility as it is very obvious the guy was not looking for advice at all. For every point every person has made to steer him toward or more "conventional" length of board, he has come back with prepared arguments against the advice. Thirdly, I know of very few new riders who are "carving ungroomed black diamond runs" on day three; granted an Ohio "black Diamond" is equivalent to the bunny hill here in the PNW. Couple this amazing aptitude if true with very unusual timidity toward even basic all mountain freestyle moves and this becomes extremely implausible.
> 
> Lastly, I dont think there is anything more irritating than a person who openly asks for advice then argues against every point when the advice is freely given. It is a huge slap in the face to those who took the time to offer up very solid advice thus wasting their time completely. This just smells trollish to me....:dunno:


Kinda have to agree, after looking at his past posts he definitely does not use language typically associated with a young teen. Especially when he says in one post, "listen Kids" and his advice amongst other threads suggests otherwise also.


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## poutanen (Dec 22, 2011)

Snowolf said:


> You can shove the little snide jab at the very experienced riders on this forum who were, in good faith, legitimately trying to give the kid sound advice!
> 
> No one thought anything of the kind and these people know what they are talking about. Your points about height are totally superfluous. Board length is determined almost exclusively by the rider's weight not height. At 225-250, that 172 was really ideal and the 181 was stupid for this kid's level of riding. The advice given by the people you are disparaging was spot on. The length of board this kid was obsessed with is too long for his SKILL. I also call total bullshit on "laying down deep trenches" from someone with under 30 days ever on a board as well.


The advice given by some of the people in this thread was that even a 159 is okay for somebody in the 225 range. I wouldn't say that's spot on.

None of us have ever seen the kid ride, or really know what he's all about based on what he claims to do or like to try to do. I just find it hilarious that people have some sort of mental block when a board gets longer than 169 cm. I agree that the 172 was probably spot on, but looking back people were telling him much lower than that. Hence my thread to throw things in the other direction.

The 222 cm is valid because it's fully 40 cm longer than the board he bought, and the guy is even doing spin tricks on it. Sure he's got the experience to back it up, but guys here were making it sound like riding a 182 would be impossible.

People, if we get so entrenched in our own little world that we can't think outside the box once in a while, it'll become a very boring world! :cheeky4:

Think it's time to change my screen name to "snide jab"


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## MrOverkill (Jan 19, 2011)

A couple things:



Snowolf said:


> Something just isn't adding up here. First off the guy does not even remotely sound like any 14 year old I have ever seen on a forum ever.


I apologize I don't fit your mold of any 14 year old. I am currently 15 years old. I would rather not divulge any more details as to my birthday and other personal details as what goes on the web stays on the web, no matter how much I'd like to change that. Take it for what you want, I am 15, I have no reason to lie, if you don't believe it, it causes me no particular harm.



Snowolf said:


> Secondly, this has been an exercise in futility as it is very obvious the guy was not looking for advice at all. For every point every person has made to steer him toward or more "conventional" length of board, he has come back with prepared arguments against the advice.


This is fair. I apologize for my lack of respect. I was in fact not looking for advice and did not communicate as well. I had an understanding of the pros and cons of such a long board and wanted to make sure I wasn't overlooking anything major. I should have been more respectful of the time everyone took to offer those opinions, and for what good it will do I apologize for my disrespect of your time.



Snowofl said:


> Thirdly, I know of very few new riders who are "carving ungroomed black diamond runs" on day three; granted an Ohio "black Diamond" is equivalent to the bunny hill here in the PNW. Couple this amazing aptitude if true with very unusual timidity toward even basic all mountain freestyle moves and this becomes extremely implausible.


I was referring to day 3 of my trip, and I never said I was carving. I was in fact riding ungroomed blacks on day 3 of my trip while at Snowbird. Not exactly a "bunny hill" if you ask me. I will assume for the purposes of respect that you simply misinterpreted and move on. Just trying to clarify here. I do not enjoy being in the air, it makes me feel a lack of control over the board and I become hypersensitive as to what my board is doing, as a result I tend to over-correct and jack myself up badly. Is the answer to keep myself away? No, I should grow a pair and hit some jumps, but the purpose of this trip was to have fun with my friends, and I can't really accomplish that from a hospital bed.



Snowolf said:


> Lastly, I dont think there is anything more irritating than a person who openly asks for advice then argues against every point when the advice is freely given. It is a huge slap in the face to those who took the time to offer up very solid advice thus wasting their time completely. This just smells trollish to me....:dunno:


Again, I apologize. I miscommunicated and then was disrespectful to those who did not see what was in my head. My mistake, I'll do my best in the future to communicate more clearly and be respectful.



Snowolf said:


> It is obvious he is simply talking to hear himself talk so really should just stop asking for advice. He does not seem to be legitimately looking for advice so much as looking for an argument in which to plead a pre determined case.


Just so you know, I took Nivek and Wiredsport's advice and purchased a pair of Raiden Machines, I loved the bindings and they performed well for me. That was not based on any "pre determined case" of mine, simply from internet research after they provided their great advice. The board was in fact a pre-conceived notion of mine, but we went over this. I miscommunicated, wasted peoples' time, I apologize.




cjcameron11 said:


> well maybe we all were confused because in your first post you said you had 10 - 15 days on a mountain. Maybe you meant one mountain specifically, or maybe you have ridden some more days since your original post, anyways i would still love to see you carving on the 181.


You're right, there's a discrepancy. Both were quick calculations, the first conservative and the second slightly less so while being more thought out. My school went on approximately 12 days of ski trips each year the past two years. This year we only had 4 days. That's 28 so far. I had 3 days of riding prior to attending boarding school, that's 31. So this trip was days 32-38 for me. Quote that number from now on please, as I actually put a significant amount of thought into it this time.



cjcameron11 said:


> Yeah i know the difference thanks mate, i obviously misread it, but thanks for pointing me in the right direction smart ass


Pot, meet kettle. I obviously know that 2-3" isn't a powder day. I am aware that you are from Australia and wasn't sure if you were entirely familiar with the notation system for Imperial units. I was simply trying to inform, not disrespect. My apologies.



cjcameron11 said:


> MAYBE if you were riding a SHORTER more maneuverable board you wouldn't have hit those rocks


Probably true. Also if I wasn't balls tired from 5.5 days of riding after a year of being a lazy ass I may not have done it either. In any case, my riding isn't the point, the board hit some rocks fairly hard and came out with little damage, board has good durability in my eyes.



cjcameron11 said:


> Anyway I'm not going to continue an argument/stupid discussion over the net with a 14yo, the fact is people tried to help, you ignored them and came back to make a point like you were right, when anyone who knows anything at all can see you made a mistake. Cheers


Yes, people tried to help, and they did so admirably. Had I not already understood what they were saying I probably would have taken their advice to heart and bought something smaller. Yes, by all common logic I made a mistake. I do not feel that I made a significant one in terms of the board I bought. The mistake I made was disrespecting all those who attempted to help me in this thread, and I'll apologize again for that. I informed myself well as to the pros and cons of various designs and specifications, took into account my personal peculiarities and purchased a board that I thought worked for me. I rode it and had fun, and have no significant regrets. It worked for what I wanted it to work for, and that's all that I asked.



I would like to reiterate my apologies in regards to all those who helped me. I apologize for not being more respectful when I declined your advice and for not being as clear in communication as I could have been. I hope that I didn't inconvenience anyone too much in this regards. Thank you all, and I will attempt to remedy those issues in the future.


I would also like to see myself carving, but as I was riding alone all morning I didn't get any videos when I was "in the groove" and the snow wasn't slushy as all hell. I know this seems unlikely, and I would prove it with picture of the board and bindings if I wasn't 800 miles away from them. After my trip I returned to my home to complete the last week of my vacation. I then left the board there and returned to boarding school. I can post pictures of the board, bindings, and boots when I get back home again in the summer. It is a Venture Storm 181, primarily white base. Raiden Machines with the chrome covering chipping off of the highbacks, and Burton Rulers, white, with some wear on the right toe from resting my board on it on the lifts when there wasn't a board rest.


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## threej21 (Jan 2, 2011)

poutanen said:


> The advice given by some of the people in this thread was that even a 159 is okay for somebody in the 225 range. I wouldn't say that's spot on.


board size varies from personal preference, ability, and riding style....IMO 159 for a 225 lb guy is big, so its all in the eye of the beholder.

I am 6' 220lbs and have ridden a 155-156 for two seasons and absolutely love it...i am though a 100% freestyle rider that does also bomb blacks at times, but am usually in the park or making the entire mtn my park.

so just pointing out that there really isnt a "spot on" size for any single person

also, IMO 181 is just retarded big and really has no purpose other than wide open bottomless bowls as someone else suggested earlier


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## mixie (Mar 29, 2011)

MrOverkill said:


> A couple things:
> 
> 
> 
> I apologize I don't fit your mold of any 14 year old. I am currently 15 years old. I would rather not divulge any more details as to my birthday and other personal details as what goes on the web stays on the web, no matter how much I'd like to change that. Take it for what you want, I am 15, I have no reason to lie, if you don't believe it, it causes me no particular harm.




15 years old and the money for a $500 snowboard, bindings and a trip to Utah? Boarding School? hmmm,.......Do you have an older brother, preferably of legal age? I need some new bindings bad.....


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## poutanen (Dec 22, 2011)

threej21 said:


> I am 6' 220lbs and have ridden a 155-156 for two seasons and absolutely love it...i am though a 100% freestyle rider that does also bomb blacks at times, but am usually in the park or making the entire mtn my park.
> 
> also, IMO 181 is just retarded big and really has no purpose other than wide open bottomless bowls as someone else suggested earlier


Trust me if you tried bombing a black on a longer board you'd know what I was talking about.

Alpine race boards go upwards of 185cm for "regular" sized riders. And they're meant to turn, carve to be specific. So for pure carving I would say you'd want to stay on the slightly longer said instead of slightly shorter.

The only time a long board will get in your way is if you're trying to do slider turns or short sharpe turns in the trees. If you're carving there should be virtually no negative effect to the length.

Now in this riders case, again we don't know him and have never seen him ride, but yeah 181 is probably way to long.


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## poutanen (Dec 22, 2011)

threej21 said:


> board size varies from personal preference, ability, and riding style....IMO 159 for a 225 lb guy is big, so its all in the eye of the beholder.


Just for shits and giggles I looked up the size chart for a Burton Custom. Chose that board since it seems to have more size options than almost any other board out there.

The 158cm is meant for a 130-180 pound rider. That means the "sweet spot" would be about 155 lb for that board. I always think it's a good idea to get as close to that spot as possible if you want to board to act like it was designed for. So a 225 lb guy would be WAY out of that range.

The 163 is 150-200, so 175 would be the sweet spot.

The 169 is 175-210+, if you expand that plus to 225 to coincide with the other ranges, that puts the sweet spot at 200 pounds.

Now if you were to graph these three boards and their sweet spots, you could extrapolate that a board with a 225 lb sweet spot would be about 174-175, and a 250 lb sweet spot would be 180 or so.

Again, I'm not trying to talk out of my ass here or put down "experienced riders" but doing some math shows that a 180 cm board for a 250 guy is not out of the question at all, in fact it may be just about right. Again this is all based on weight, which Snowolf specifically said is the major basis for choosing a board length (and I agree).


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## threej21 (Jan 2, 2011)

you ride what you want man, and i as well as everyone else will do the same....but use your math and everyone on the mountain that is 175 lbs or more would be on boards 165cm and above, which just isnt the case, so somewhere your logic is flawed.

if thats you in your avatar, it looks like your on a huge board as well, so maybe your just trying to justify your own preference


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## schmitty34 (Dec 28, 2007)

Snowolf said:


> I am also curious, is he going backwards in time?. In this thread a year ago he was supposedly 15 but now is 14. What gives?
> http://www.snowboardingforum.com/bindings/38101-bindings-boots-new-setup.html
> 
> Everything about the post history makes all of this highly suspicious.


Haha....15 years-old in February 2011, then 14 years-old in August 2011!! 

I can almost buy mis-calculating your days on the mount by half...almost, but getting your age totally wrong?

This does seem very trollish, but that's a lot of effort to just mess with a bunch of guys on a forum.

Hey, but if you are truely 14/15, mad props for your writing skills, your logic used in your arguements, and keeping your cool on the internet when most teens would have told us to eat shit and f-off.


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## ilikecoupons (Jan 20, 2012)

I think that the 181 might seem fine for you just depending on how strong you are. As you said, you were born into a family of weight lifters and if your 200+ and not fat you must be preeeetty stron. If any of your friends ride a 171 or anything near that, swap boards for a day and see what the difference is. You might be happier, and they might curse you under their breath for giving them such a long board:cheeky4:


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## snowklinger (Aug 30, 2011)

This is a funny thread.

I was on the lift with a guy about 45, my height (short), but pretty thin, a small dude. He was riding like a 190 or some shit, and had apparently been riding it for years. He said he had ridden everything else and it was all bullshit, he liked his plank. Whatever, I'm sure he didn't do anything cool on it, maybe some gay russian turns.


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## MrOverkill (Jan 19, 2011)

dreampow said:


> Thing is why ask for advice if you have already decided what to do?:dunno:
> 
> People give their advice most of it sensible and based on years of experience. Then you choose to ignore it and go with your own idea based on your very limited knowledge and experience.
> 
> ...


I overlooked this by accident. I've already covered the asking for advice, but I'll take responsibility for miscommunicating again. Also, as to bombing blues, I was riding ungroomed blacks by day 3. Once conditions went to crap on days 4, 5, and 6 even my experience friends weren't riding off piste.

Thank you for your input though, and in the future I will keep it in mind.


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## ETM (Aug 11, 2009)

post a pic of yourself with the board


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## poutanen (Dec 22, 2011)

threej21 said:


> you ride what you want man, and i as well as everyone else will do the same....but use your math and everyone on the mountain that is 175 lbs or more would be on boards 165cm and above, which just isnt the case, so somewhere your logic is flawed.
> 
> if thats you in your avatar, it looks like your on a huge board as well, so maybe your just trying to justify your own preference


That's me in the avatar, it's a 159 and I'm 175 pounds, right in the "sweet spot" of the size chart... Not trying to justify anything, just trying to show that there are some various forms of sound advice available here and elsewhere.

According to Burton's math, for a Burton Custom, If you weight between 175-200 you'd pick either the 158 or 163 depending on your needs. You'd pick a 169 if you were roughly 200 pounds, and if you weighed more than that you'd be outside the sweet spot of that board range.

Just because you guys know of people (or are doing it yourself) who are very heavy on shorter boards, doesn't mean that this guy is wrong for wanting to ride a longer board. Again my math isn't based on my own thoughts or what a friend rides, it's based on extrapolating data from Burton's size charts.

You guys are saying a 181 is completely out to lunch (to paraphrase the theme of this thread) while I'm saying although long, and not a great beginner size, for a 250 pound guy the math actually makes it seem plausible.


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## MrOverkill (Jan 19, 2011)

schmitty34 said:


> Haha....15 years-old in February 2011, then 14 years-old in August 2011!!
> 
> I can almost buy mis-calculating your days on the mount by half...almost, but getting your age totally wrong?
> 
> ...


I intentionally got my age wrong. I was attempting to obfuscate personal details on the internet. If I had any way of proving I am 15 currently and was 14 in August 2011 without divulging any more personal details, I would.

The mis-calculation was due to me rounding down. I guessed we probably had 9-10 days per year, and then took off 1 from that. Thinking back on it, we went for about 3 months every weekend (school dictates when we go. That's why it's so infrequent) and more than once when school would allow it. I figure that to be around 12 days per year. As to the rest of it, I already calculated it.

You guys can call me a troll all you would like. I'm not one, I simply made a mistake in communication and didn't handle it well.


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## MrOverkill (Jan 19, 2011)

ETM said:


> post a pic of yourself with the board


Don't have one, and won't for a while. As I said I left the board at home when I came back to school. Also, if I did have one, you guys wouldn't believe that I'm 15, as I have a massive beard.

I would also like to refrain from posting a picture of me on the internet. I will however post up a picture of all of my gear as listed here:

1 pair of Smith goggles with Persimmon lenses (el cheapo model)
1 Giro Revolution helmet, size L
1 pair of 2012 white Burton Rulers, size 12 with wear on the right toe box
1 2012 Venture Storm 181. Ring from binding baseplate obvious on front insert pack, three small topsheet nicks in the nose.
1 pair of 2012 Raiden Machines with the chrome paint chipping off on the highback.

I will include a piece of paper saying "MrOverkill Snowboardingforum.com [date in mm/dd/yyyy form]"

If that doesn't prove myself, I have no idea what will.


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## cjcameron11 (Feb 5, 2011)

Just stop, stop writing, seriously you deliberately wrote the wrong age to "obfuscate" you are making me laugh now, can't post a pic? Cos you are afraid someone will come find you? If you are so big what's to worry about??? Just do a print screen of your so called video.

This is comical


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## MrOverkill (Jan 19, 2011)

Video was taken on my friend's iphone. I will try to get it sent to me later today. I have it on a picasa account, but the school server has blocked it. I will take a screenshot of the blocked page with my user control panel open in another tab. Will edit this post with it.

Other than that, if you don't believe it, wait until June when I get back from school.

I simply do not enjoy posting my personal information on the internet. It stays here forever, and as little a trail as I can leave, I like to leave as little a trail as possible.


http://imageshack.us/f/163/54038217.png/

There you go.


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## schmitty34 (Dec 28, 2007)

poutanen said:


> You guys are saying a 181 is completely out to lunch (to paraphrase the theme of this thread) while I'm saying although long, and not a great beginner size, for a 250 pound guy the math actually makes it seem plausible.


Keep in mind that nobody flat out said that 181 is totally out of question for a 250 pound guy. Obviously there is a market out there for 181 boards, and I am sure it's not limited to really big dudes. 

What everyone did say is that the board is not good for THIS really big dude...who isn't really all that big BTW...just big for a 14/15-year-old. 

Take into consideration that this kid was asking for advice, said he only has 10-15 days on the mountain, and said he currently only rides mellow groomers. 

With that information, there is absolutely no way that you can say anyone giving legit advice would suggest a tapered 181 board built for "big lines and burly terrain" (quote from Venture).


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## poutanen (Dec 22, 2011)

MrOverkill said:


> I simply do not enjoy posting my personal information on the internet. It stays here forever, and as little a trail as I can leave, I like to leave as little a trail as possible.


I hear you here, although you can go too far with it. I wrote some comments on a blog about 10 years ago that I still believe, but I'd rather some people not read, but there they are out there for the world to see! 

I also tend to not post info about where I'm going until I've already been. Don't want somebody able to trace me down and then rob my house while I'm away. The tweeters and facebookers who post their life stories a second at a time are asking for it.

That said, the easy thing to do in this thread would have been to say "I'm a teen and I'm still growing, so I'd like to buy a board I can ride now, but not grow out of in a couple years".

BTW I got a 153 as a replacement for a broken board when I first started (I was 12 or so). At the time I was 130 pounds. Now by all the calculations I've seen, that was about 6 cm too big for me at the time and for my ability. I certainly don't think it hampered my learning... I was using it for competitions by about age 15 (downhill racing). That said I never got into spin tricks in the park. Maybe this is why?


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## poutanen (Dec 22, 2011)

schmitty34 said:


> Keep in mind that nobody flat out said that 181 is totally out of question for a 250 pound guy. Obviously there is a market out there for 181 boards, and I am sure it's not limited to really big dudes.
> 
> What everyone did say is that the board is not good for THIS really big dude...who isn't really all that big BTW...just big for a 14/15-year-old.


Actually you were one of the ones giving very good advice in this thread. Here's the kind of stuff that made me comment initially as I think it is potentially the extreme on the opposite end of the spectrum (as the 222 is extreme on the long end)...

Argo said he's 290 lb riding a 159W. (methinks he's _slightly_ outside the suggest weight range)

Kung-pow said a 181 was "ridiculous".

Howeh said is was "serious overkill".

Threej21 said he's 205-220 and rides a 156W. (again, sounds like he's probably well outside the weight range)

Linvillegorge said it's "absurdly huge".

Schmitty, I think your advice (among some others in this thread) has been sound. You're saying there's nothing wrong with a 180 cm board for a big guy, but he'd likely have an easier time learning on something shorter that's still designed for his weight range. Again I think a 169 or so is designed for his weight or a little less. And as he grows in mass and ability, a 180+ board isn't out of the question at all.

Reading the quotes and sizes above, people were making it sound like the 181 would send him into orbit the minute he strapped in, and that he should be getting a 156 or 159 to learn on, and I think that's just plain old bad advice!

*Unfortunately I got chastised for offering a second opinion on what I sincerely thought was wrong.*


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## schmitty34 (Dec 28, 2007)

poutanen said:


> Actually you were one of the ones giving very good advice in this thread. Here's the kind of stuff that made me comment initially as I think it is potentially the extreme on the opposite end of the spectrum (as the 222 is extreme on the long end)...
> 
> Argo said he's 290 lb riding a 159W. (methinks he's _slightly_ outside the suggest weight range)
> 
> ...


Again, I think it is the context of the comments. I would say that 181 probably is "absurdly huge" or "serious overkill" for a 6 foot 225 pound beginner.

If the OP said he was a 225 pound expert looking for a freeride powder board for deep BC lines, then I doubt any of those comments would have been posted.


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## poutanen (Dec 22, 2011)

Snowolf said:


> To be fair, I don`t recall reading anyone telling him to ride a 156-159. They simply stated what THEY were riding. In fact, I think most people advised him not to buy the 181 but to get the 172. I think you are pushing so hard for the longer board that you are reading things into what people are actually saying...:dunno:


Possibly, and I think we're all in agreement for what the suggested size should be for somebody his weight and ability. Most posters though tend to say what they ride as advice for somebody new to the sport (i.e. "I ride an xxx and it's great for me!"), which may be why I was assuming Argo and Threej21 were suggesting a board in the 150's.

I was using Burton's chart simply as an illustration of what a projected board size _could_ be for a person that's in the 250 pounds range. I've had my experiences on boards, you've had yours, as has everyone else on these forums, but most of those are subjective experiences. I'm not trying to be a burton fanboy, but I would think their charts should be based on at least SOME engineering principles, and to me that makes them much more valid than our subjective opinions.

I posted the 222 video because when I first heard of it I was of the same mindset (a board that long would be unrideable!) But the rider was in fact fully capable of riding it in powder, as well as performing spin tricks, and some little fun stuff at the side of a groomed run.

Everyone thought the world was flat and people were killed for saying it was round. 

Case closed lol. Sounds like the OP did what he wanted despite the advice, and now he won't be riding until next year anyway. If I were him I'd try to demo as many boards as possible in the fall to actually feel the difference and make his own subjective judgment instead of not-listening to us internet hacks.


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## MrOverkill (Jan 19, 2011)

Snowolf said:


> WTF???? Sorry dude, but now I am imagining something really bizarre. Are you Hagrid`s kid from Harry Potter or something.........:laugh:



Build and hair are similar. :laugh: Not quite as portly. Unfortunately I don't have any pictures of myself that I'm willing to post on the web. I propose we conclude this thread for now with this:

OP (me) made a mistake. Accepts it, apologizes for it. OP did not handle well-mannered advice well. OP was not clear with his experience/expertise. OP may or may not be son of Hagrid. OP may or may not be wanted by Swamp People. OP has done his best to clear the situation up by posting relevant information. OP will provide pictographic evidence of gear (including the pants I ripped up, they're Bass Pro Shop 100 MPH waders (had them around for a project, they're waterproof, used them to ride) with a nice 6" or so gash on the right hip) when he gets back from boarding school.

As for the board, we can all agree that a 181 is not best for any beginner-intermediate. It probably was not "best" for me. I've never intended to argue that. There are pros and cons to a board of this length, and anyone who purchases one should be fully informed as such and not bitch about it. I made a "mistake", but still had a fun time and enjoyed myself.

As much as I know we'd all like to bicker back and forth about who said what, who's telling the truth, and who is the most "entrapped", none of that is really relevant. I'll post up photo evidence of me having the gear I've mentioned, and you guys can choose what to believe. I didn't mean to disrespect anyone or create any kind of controversy when I posted my review, simply to say that I had purchased the board you guys had all advised against and it was not as bad as you had made it seem to be. This outcome would not be likely for almost any other scenario. However, I understand how you all took it the way you did, and I apologize for that. Can we all just agree to shut up until I post some proof of me not being a troll?:dunno:


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## Sick-Pow (May 5, 2008)

Hey dude, I will buy that 181 from you.


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## MrOverkill (Jan 19, 2011)

Sick-Pow said:


> Hey dude, I will buy that 181 from you.


If I seriously consider selling it I'll get in touch with you.


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## timmytard (Mar 19, 2009)

schmitty34 said:


> Haha....15 years-old in February 2011, then 14 years-old in August 2011!!
> 
> I can almost buy mis-calculating your days on the mount by half...almost, but getting your age totally wrong?
> 
> ...


I'd have to agree, very articulate for a kid. 

Good on ya dude.

For what it's worth, I had a Never Summer Legacy 174 wide & @ 165lbs with size 9.5 boots.I loved it & had no problem riding it.


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## AcroPhile (Dec 3, 2010)

timmytard said:


> I'd have to agree, very articulate for a kid.
> 
> Good on ya dude.
> 
> For what it's worth, I had a Never Summer Legacy 174 wide & @ 165lbs with size 9.5 boots.I loved it & had no problem riding it.


Why on earth did you have a wide board with 9.5 boots??? :dunno:


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## timmytard (Mar 19, 2009)

AcroPhile said:


> Why on earth did you have a wide board with 9.5 boots??? :dunno:


I worked out a deal @ a used sporting goods store.

I traded my Salomon Fastback 160 with Burton Freestyle bindings, for the Never Summer Legacy 174W with flow bindings & a Forum Destroyer 152 with Forum bindings. I had to pay an extra $50 bucks. All three boards were in immaculate condition.

@ the time, the people working the store had never heard of Never Summer, Flow or Forum, But they had heard of Salomon & Burton. So I managed to convince them that those were shitty no-name companies, & that my board was the best ever made.

Neither one of the 2 boards I was trading for were personally good for every day riding, but together it was a wicked combo.

I ended up selling the Legacy for $280, knocked down from $300 because the flows were womens & the Destroyer for $220.
Here is a line from the Destroyer add on Craigslist.

I got a 2008 152cm Forum Destroyer, The 152 doesn't have gay colors like pink or baby blue, it is gold with metallic flecks with the charcoal background. It looks stylin'.

I should have asked for more $$$$ on the Destroyer, it sold in hours.

TT


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## linvillegorge (Jul 6, 2009)

I can't believe this poor kid actually bought a 181. And I'm one of the "big board" proponents on this board. I generally like a board a few cms longer than most on this board, but 181... that's a very much a specialty board. You can't have that thing as your main board.


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## cjcameron11 (Feb 5, 2011)

linvillegorge said:


> I can't believe this poor kid actually bought a 181. And I'm one of the "big board" proponents on this board. I generally like a board a few cms longer than most on this board, but 181... that's a very much a specialty board. You can't have that thing as your main board.


LOL please don't let it start up again, i think most are of you opinion but it really got out of control for a while here......


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## schmitty34 (Dec 28, 2007)

cjcameron11 said:


> LOL please don't let it start up again, i think most are of you opinion but it really got out of control for a while here......


No way man, we can't let this small board propaganda continue! 

If this thread doesn't live on, the children of this generation will continue to be shackled with the conformist mindset that tells us all we need smaller boards. Like sheep to the slaughter they will be flocking to the mountains with boards reminiscent of popsicle sticks strapped to their feet.


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## P3 Mammoth (Dec 3, 2011)

Hah, board length debates are the best. To each his own. Every board is a toy made of wood and plastic so don't take things too seriously. Trends come and go, board sizing is just one of these trends. I love my 150 as much as I love my 180, just not for the same things.

Here's a few words from JG about current board size trends, take it for what it's worth (he's trying to sell you on his ideas.) John Gerndt on Nugs,Roots,Harvest and Freeback Bindings | Buoloco


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## MrOverkill (Jan 19, 2011)

linvillegorge said:


> I can't believe this poor kid actually bought a 181. And I'm one of the "big board" proponents on this board. I generally like a board a few cms longer than most on this board, but 181... that's a very much a specialty board. You can't have that thing as your main board.


Thank your for your concern, however as CJCameron said, I'd rather not bust this open again. It's been discussed ad nauseum already, and I don't really want to end up with a poo-flinging discussion again.

In short, I bought it, I liked it, I had fun. Not everyone will, and the advice given to me was sound. In the end, I tend to agree with P3 Mammoth. You ride what you want to ride, I ride what I want to ride, both may be unorthodox, (Me riding a 155 or 157 at 250 pounds would have to considered unorthodox, as well as my riding a 181 at my relative level of experience) but let's live and let live.

I'll have picture proof up in June that I am not a troll.


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## extra0 (Jan 16, 2010)

I did the same thing when I first started snowboarding: I was given advice by older, longtime experienced riders, but couldn't stop from obsessing over a certain size. I ended up with a super stiff/long board as my first and an even longer board as my second. Rode each one about 5 days each before I sold them.

Now, at 175 lbs (6', 1" tall), I'm riding a 155 cm on hardpack/groomer days and a 163 cm on deep powder days (which, btw, works in depths of up to 4-5 feet). I have thought about getting a 168 for that one storm every year that dumps over 5 ft, but probably not really worth it.

Depending on the conditions you usually ride in, you can get used to just about any size board, but a 181 is pretty ridiculous for 95% of snowboarders. Being that they're a small company in hard times, could it be that Venture was just trying to make a sale?...I can't imagine they would've even suggested a 181 to you if you hadn't already shown such a biased interest toward it.


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## BoardWalk (Mar 22, 2011)

It's not about how big your board is, it's how you use it....at least that's what I tell my wife...


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## MrOverkill (Jan 19, 2011)

Well, just drove back from school today.

My room is still a massive clusterf*ck from unpacking, so I haven't gathered all of the stuff I promised together. I do have a quick pick showing the clusterf*ck, the Venture, and, for those of you with sharp eyes, the Raiden Machines.


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## ETM (Aug 11, 2009)

That is a bad ass powder board man. I would own it in a heartbeat.


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## MrOverkill (Jan 19, 2011)

ETM said:


> That is a bad ass powder board man. I would own it in a heartbeat.


I know I shouldn't peddle my own shit here, but look for a thread in the WTS section down the line. I still need to do more research, but as it seems that I'm not going to see anything except ice for a while, I might consider trading/selling this... We'll see though, much research still to be done.


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## IndraRipper (May 22, 2012)

Ok guys this thread made me chuckle a bit 
I am 14 and am 5'9" I ride 150 blunt, I mostly do park.
But Thai year in whistler I wen mad and tested loads of boards from a tiny 138 up to 157.
little boards are a LOT of fun to mess about with and I do ride fast sometimes but with the skate banana 153 there was very little chatter and I was hitting 83kph.


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## eclipse1018 (Mar 1, 2012)

*You are 14??*

You're 14 and 225! Is shaq your father by any chance? jk.. besides alpine race boards, i really dont think they make boards in that size.. plus from my experience.. bigger boards = more speed and a larger turning radius.. if you have no intentions of going to the park.. than i suggest a classic camber board or hybrid camber board for good control!


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## cjcameron11 (Feb 5, 2011)

MrOverkill said:


> I know I shouldn't peddle my own shit here, but look for a thread in the WTS section down the line. I still need to do more research, but as it seems that I'm not going to see anything except ice for a while, I might consider trading/selling this... We'll see though, much research still to be done.


Sound like after your trip you have realised that you may have made a poor decision on board choice......


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## MrOverkill (Jan 19, 2011)

cjcameron11 said:


> Sound like after your trip you have realised that you may have made a poor decision on board choice......


Man, can we please not start this again? I looked at my schedule for my new school and the possibilities I have coming my way. Every one involves approximately 0 inches of powder. When I bought the board I thought I'd be seeing more powder on the trips I have upcoming. Shit happens, plans change, and one must adapt one's equipment to them.


If anyone really wants to restart this... Please go read the past 4 or 5 pages, see that it has been beaten to death and back, and change your mind about restarting this. End of the line is, I disrespected some forum members with the way I posed the question and responded to their advice. I bought a board against their recommendations. I had fun on said board in MOST conditions. Said board was a hellion on ice. Might I have had more fun with a different board? Yes. Will I ever know for sure? No. Did I have fun on the 181? Yes.

That basically recaps everything in the last 4 pages and all I really have to say on the topic. Could we please handle this maturely and move on?



On the note of promised pics or it didn't happen, my room is still a disaster. I'll be working all day to have it cleaned up, and as soon as I do, I'll post up the picture I promised.


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## MrOverkill (Jan 19, 2011)

Snowolf said:


> I am still sticking with my theory that you are related to Hagrid.........:cheeky4:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You know... Thinking back on it I might have some memories of living with someone who looked like that... 


Also, ignore all the random shit on the bookshelf. Haven't lived in this room for way too long...


I'd like to keep it around, as it is tons of fun in the powder and wide open spaces, but money is tight and I still need a new computer and car... We'll see what this year brings though. :thumbsup:


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## MrOverkill (Jan 19, 2011)

As promised, here are pics.






















































(Note the rings I mentioned)












Hope that is good enough, as I'm not really willing to post anything else.


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## cjcameron11 (Feb 5, 2011)

couldn't help myself, still one of the funniest threads i have ever been a part of


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## budderbear (Nov 27, 2011)

MrOverkill said:


> Man, can we please not start this again? I looked at my schedule for my new school and the possibilities I have coming my way. Every one involves approximately 0 inches of powder. When I bought the board I thought I'd be seeing more powder on the trips I have upcoming. Shit happens, plans change, and one must adapt one's equipment to them.
> 
> 
> If anyone really wants to restart this... Please go read the past 4 or 5 pages, see that it has been beaten to death and back, and change your mind about restarting this. End of the line is, *I disrespected some forum members with the way I posed the question and responded to their advice.* I bought a board against their recommendations. I had fun on said board in MOST conditions. Said board was a hellion on ice. Might I have had more fun with a different board? Yes. Will I ever know for sure? No. Did I have fun on the 181? Yes.
> ...


:laugh: really ? hypocrite


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## MrOverkill (Jan 19, 2011)

budderbear said:


> :laugh: really ? hypocrite


Good point, except that it isn't a good point at all.

Yes, I disrespected some members. It was not intended at all, but looking back at it, it was definitely there. Hindsight is a bitch, huh?

I had the maturity to admit it and apologize for it. If you really feel like immaturely carrying this on, go ahead and PM me, I'd be happy to discuss it there. However for the purposes of this thread, I feel as though I have said everything I need to say, or really that I can say.


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## budderbear (Nov 27, 2011)

MrOverkill said:


> Good point, except that it isn't a good point at all.
> 
> Yes, I disrespected some members. It was not intended at all, but looking back at it, it was definitely there. Hindsight is a bitch, huh?
> 
> I had the maturity to admit it and apologize for it. If you really feel like immaturely carrying this on, go ahead and PM me, I'd be happy to discuss it there. However for the purposes of this thread, I feel as though I have said everything I need to say, or really that I can say.


"sits back and grabs popcorn" :laugh:


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## Nefarious (Dec 26, 2010)

budderbear said:


> "sits back and grabs popcorn" :laugh:


That doesn't apply when you called him out. The guy has defended himself 1,000 times over. Leave it alone


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## budderbear (Nov 27, 2011)

Nefarious said:


> That doesn't apply when you called him out. The guy has defended himself 1,000 times over. Leave it alone, idiot.


Sure I'm the idiot... :laugh: last time I checked I didn't buy a way oversized board that I wasted my money on


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## MrOverkill (Jan 19, 2011)

budderbear said:


> Sure I'm the idiot... :laugh: last time I checked I didn't buy a way oversized board that I wasted my money on


In my mind, if I had fun riding it I didn't waste my money. And yes, I did have a hell of a lot of fun on it.


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## budderbear (Nov 27, 2011)

MrOverkill said:


> In my mind, if I had fun riding it I didn't waste my money. And yes, I did have a hell of a lot of fun on it.


I'm sure you did have fun on it, I would too but only in a huge ass open bowl of powder, otherwise... a 181 is something to get if you 1. freakin huge 2. rich and want to fill the quiver 3. Live above tree line/ somewhere with insane powder


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## MrOverkill (Jan 19, 2011)

budderbear said:


> I'm sure you did have fun on it, I would too but only in a huge ass open bowl of powder, otherwise... a 181 is something to get if you 1. freakin huge 2. rich and want to fill the quiver 3. Live above tree line/ somewhere with insane powder


Bro, I get that you have your way of thinking, but I've really addressed all of these arguments a few times in the past 9 pages. I'm not going to reiterate them here, please go back and read them for yourself.

If you have any new ideas/arguments you'd like to contest, let me know. :thumbsup:


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## budderbear (Nov 27, 2011)

MrOverkill said:


> Bro, I get that you have your way of thinking, but I've really addressed all of these arguments a few times in the past 9 pages. I'm not going to reiterate them here, please go back and read them for yourself.
> 
> If you have any new ideas/arguments you'd like to contest, let me know. :thumbsup:


Thats fine, my point was basically... just because its fun doesn't make it the right choice... take hookers for example


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## MrOverkill (Jan 19, 2011)

Snowolf said:


> I am still sticking with my theory that you are related to Hagrid.........:cheeky4:


One thing, I did shave and get a haircut for summer, so my hagridian lineage is not quite so obvious. Come winter it will be back in full force :thumbsup:


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## budderbear (Nov 27, 2011)

cjcameron11 said:


> _*Ohh btw i don't consider 2 - 3' of snow "powder riding" i could be mistaken but i thought resorts classified powder days as 6 or 8 inches plus.*_ Anyway thats beside the point, what you should do is say to yourself:
> 
> "Self, i fucked up, I can be an immature teenager sometimes and i guess thats ok cos I'm 14, *BUT i am going to admit that i can be wrong* and do myself a favour, I'm going to return/sell the board and buy something that will actually help me to enjoy the sport more and progress quickly, sincerely myself"


2-3' = 24-36" which happens to be more then 6-8" "=inches '=feet :cheeky4:


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## MrOverkill (Jan 19, 2011)

budderbear said:


> 2-3' = 24-36" which happens to be more then 6-8" "=inches '=feet :cheeky4:





mroverkill said:


> 2-3' is about 60-90cm of snow. I think that's a powder day, especially given that the people at Snowbird were saying it was one of the best days of the year. Just for your information, the single tick (') means feet, and the double (") means inches.



I already pointed that out to him. Don't sweat it though, thanks for trying to help me out.


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## budderbear (Nov 27, 2011)

yeh I think I'll just shut up now and read every page before I say more lol, but you have to admit the irony there is funny, saying "admit your wrong" when he was wrong


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## cjcameron11 (Feb 5, 2011)

Buddy, I think you need to check who's side you're on, firstly u jump on this thread against overkill, then decide to have a crack at me as well. Have a read over all the pages check what's written by both sides, read them carefully then comment. Otherwise as you have just done you will look like a douche with no idea.

And FYI quotation marks are used when quoting or writing someone's speech, have a re read and then tell me if anyone was admitting being wrong.

Ohh and in case overkill is wondering, I really don't care if u sell ur board I was just fuckin with ya on that last comment


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## MrOverkill (Jan 19, 2011)

cjcameron11 said:


> Ohh and in case overkill is wondering, I really don't care if u sell ur board I was just fuckin with ya on that last comment


It's all good bro, sorry I didn't take the joke  :thumbsup:


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## ETM (Aug 11, 2009)

Budderbear you are a fuck puppet.

Well done to you mr overkill, you proved that you were telling the truth and handled yourself like a man even when you were copping it from every angle. If I were you I would keep that board mate. One day you will probably be riding Japan once a year and you wont be able to get that board back.


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## MrOverkill (Jan 19, 2011)

ETM said:


> Budderbear you are a fuck puppet.
> 
> Well done to you mr overkill, you proved that you were telling the truth and handled yourself like a man even when you were copping it from every angle. If I were you I would keep that board mate. One day you will probably be riding Japan once a year and you wont be able to get that board back.



Thanks for the kind words, mate.

We'll see how it goes. If it's in the budget for me to pick up a smaller board for the ice I'll be seeing this year, I'll definitely keep it. It is soooooo much fun in the powder :cheeky4:


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## combatwombat (Apr 4, 2012)

Oh man you bought a 181


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