# Union Atlas heel cushion. Is this how its supposed to be?



## Triple8Sol (Nov 24, 2008)

I've checked them out in person and can confirm that is how they look and are designed. Haven't ridden them but from what you're describing does not sound like something worth compensating for or adjusting to.


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## addi61 (Sep 20, 2011)

Yeah, I really wanted to be happy with the Atlas but I'm not so far. I can't imagine why they would hollow out the underside of the heel cushion. My only guess is weight saving and it seems crazy to me to compromise stability and comfort to save a few grams at most.


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## bseracka (Nov 14, 2011)

Now you have a point of reference for the debates and "education" last week.

Edit: Forgot to mention, you're wrong, that's a feature and how dare you question Union design


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## jdang307 (Feb 6, 2011)

Can you just put something in there to keep it up?


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## addi61 (Sep 20, 2011)

I could stuff a bunch of Viagra under there?


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## jdang307 (Feb 6, 2011)

addi61 said:


> I could stuff a bunch of Viagra under there?


But that would only last a few hours and you'll have to call a doctor after 4.

Cialis would last you the whole weekend.


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## UNION INHOUSE (Nov 13, 2012)

addi61 said:


> I ordered a set of Union Atlas bindings to try with my Never Summer Heritage. I mounted them up and adjusted everything. After strapping in my heels felt like they were sagging. The heel cushion, which is hollowed out, collapses all the way to the top sheet leaving me with a feeling of leaning back when I am standing on flat ground. Is this what the cushion is designed to do? Has anyone else noticed this or experienced problems while riding? I don't understand why Union wouldn't just fill the entire heel area with EVA to make it nice and solid. Maybe Nose Dradamous can answer my questions. Sorry the pictures are so crappy. Thanks in advance.


This is my first post, and the first snowboarding forum I've ever signed up to. Hopefully I can answer any questions pertaining to Union. For the record, I am one of the founders of Union and have been snowboarding for 27 years. That just made me feel very old...... I'm not trying to claim, or try to be the authority of all things snowboarding. I just want everybody to know that I'm not some intern working at C3, and know a thing or two about snowboard bindings.


Addressing your question - Yes, they are designed this way for added cushion in the heel area. I think you are over-analyzing it a bit (no offense). Just go ride the bindings, and I assure you won't have any issues with the binding being "too soft" in the heel area. 

Travis Rice says that the Atlas is the best binding he's ever ridden. That's the honest truth. If anybody in this forum knows Travis, you know he's a man of his word, and has extremely high standards for gear. Probably 80% of our team rides the Atlas base and none of them have ever had any issues with EVA.

Thanks and happy shredding.


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## ShredLife (Feb 6, 2010)

why don't you address your idiot rep Johan and his grade-school marketing techniques on this board. 



why don't you innovate your toe straps to keep up with the rest of the snowboarding industry?


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## Alkasquawlik (Jul 13, 2010)

ShredLife said:


> why don't you innovate your toe straps to keep up with the rest of the snowboarding industry?


Does not compute. :dunno:


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## david_z (Dec 14, 2009)

Props to Union for signing in to respond to this thread. Hopefully they continue to engage the members of this forum and all the people looking for information, advice, etc.



ShredLife said:


> why don't you address your idiot rep Johan and his grade-school marketing techniques on this board.
> 
> why don't you innovate your toe straps to keep up with the rest of the snowboarding industry?


Look I'm not the boss of you but this is really inappropriate. Especially in light of what appears to be a mature, good-natured response by Union, there's absolutely no need to hijack this thread to try and dredge up that nonsense (which Mods here and EL handled it in a pretty good way) or your own personal beef with Union/C3/Johan.


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## UNION INHOUSE (Nov 13, 2012)

ShredLife said:


> why don't you address your idiot rep Johan and his grade-school marketing techniques on this board.
> 
> 
> 
> why don't you innovate your toe straps to keep up with the rest of the snowboarding industry?



First of all, Johan isn't our rep. I'm not defending him, just to be clear on that. He's a very passionate person who has sacrificed a great deal for our brands. His wife and kids have as well. So when somebody hates on our brand, he takes it personal. Doesn't make it right, but it is what it is. 

I have no idea what you do for a living, or if you have mouths to feed. If you do, maybe you can understand. Again, I'm not defending his actions or apologize whatever he did. 

---------

You are entitled to your opinion about our toe straps. Not all boots work ideal with our toe straps. The same can be said for any binding brand. 

It's important to have them adjusted correctly, obviously. Proper heelcup adjustment is key to toe strap fit. Nike, 32, Vans and Burton all fit great with Union. 

Every model in our new line has new toe straps that are improved. 

Lastly, you probably don't realize that there is a patent battle going on with toe straps right now, and we have steered clear of any patent infringements.


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## addi61 (Sep 20, 2011)

Thanks for answering my question! If for some reason I did have an issue with the EVA coming apart would that be covered under the base plate warranty? If you don't mind me asking, why didn't you just fill the whole heel with EVA like the contact pro?



UNION INHOUSE said:


> This is my first post, and the first snowboarding forum I've ever signed up to. Hopefully I can answer any questions pertaining to Union. For the record, I am one of the founders of Union and have been snowboarding for 27 years. That just made me feel very old...... I'm not trying to claim, or try to be the authority of all things snowboarding. I just want everybody to know that I'm not some intern working at C3, and know a thing or two about snowboard bindings.
> 
> 
> Addressing your question - Yes, they are designed this way for added cushion in the heel area. I think you are over-analyzing it a bit (no offense). Just go ride the bindings, and I assure you won't have any issues with the binding being "too soft" in the heel area.
> ...


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## ShredLife (Feb 6, 2010)

UNION INHOUSE said:


> First of all, Johan isn't our rep. I'm not defending him, just to be clear on that. He's a very passionate person who has sacrificed a great deal for our brands. His wife and kids have as well. So when somebody hates on our brand, he takes it personal. Doesn't make it right, but it is what it is.
> 
> I have no idea what you do for a living, or if you have mouths to feed. If you do, maybe you can understand. Again, I'm not defending his actions or apologize whatever he did.


well he is a sales rep for Union/Capita isn't he?

what does having children have to do with it? 

people who are snowboarders and are not blinded by some twisted sense of brand loyalty have complaints about the functionality of your product. i'm not the only one. feel free to deflect all criticism as my fault, but you'll be doing your market (snowboarders) a huge dis-service. 
So how does Union Sales Rep choose to deal with it? by pitting a forum of sycophants against other snowboarders for the promise of free gear. sad. very sad.

good luck with your damage control exercises.


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## Alkasquawlik (Jul 13, 2010)

ShredLife said:


> well he is a sales rep for Union/Capita isn't he?
> 
> what does having children have to do with it?
> 
> ...



such a bitter, bitter old man.


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## killclimbz (Aug 10, 2007)

Keep it civil guys. Questions were asked about Johan, they were answered. Maybe not to your liking, but you got one.


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## ShredLife (Feb 6, 2010)

Alkasquawlik said:


> such a bitter, bitter old man.


such a shill... too bad you didn't win the bindings lil buddy.


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## Alkasquawlik (Jul 13, 2010)

ShredLife said:


> such a shill... too bad you didn't win the bindings lil buddy.


Like I said, I didn't want them and that wasn't the catalyst to make me jump over here. Stoked that Phony and matty got them, they're fun bindings, had them last year.


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## phony_stark (Jul 2, 2011)

ShredLife said:


> such a shill... too bad you didn't win the bindings lil buddy.


Even though you may not think so, you're belittling yourself WAY more than you think you're belittling others. People are starting to notice.


OP, that's the way they're designed. Coming off of forces and contacts they felt a little weird to me too, when I first strapped in and I had the same reservations as you. However, after riding them, I found that, sinking feeling, wasn't there at all and that the binding was actually quite nice and damp in the heel. I am, BY NO MEANS, comparing myself to T.Rice, but they're also my favorite bindings ever, and allowed me to sell my Cartels.

Have you ridden them yet? If so, and it still felt weird and something you can't get over, then definitely swap out. If not, I say give them a try.

Alka, I actually don't/won't have the team bindings for very long. I'm sending them to Jerms! Spreading the stoke.


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## ShredLife (Feb 6, 2010)

why are YOU on here, besides of course to win free bindings and give ridiculous advice beyond your scope of knowledge?


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## Alkasquawlik (Jul 13, 2010)

ShredLife said:


> why are YOU on here, besides of course to win free bindings and give ridiculous advice beyond your scope of knowledge?


I wasn't aware that SBF was an "invite only" forum.

Give me a fucking break. The website's banner says it is for "snowboard enthusiasts". I'm pretty sure that everyone who has posted here, even you with your tiny head, are snowboard enthusiasts who enjoy talking about the different aspects of the industry.

And "giving ridiculous advice beyond your scope of knowledge"? Really? Pot, meet Kettle.


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## phony_stark (Jul 2, 2011)

I'm not asking why are you on SBF in general (although, any thread I have been on regarding gear, I have had to ask you to contribute to the thread instead of just walking behind people shaking your fist.). I'm asking why are you on this thread in particular if you have no advice for the original poster.

Have you ridden the Atlas? He's having reservations about them.
If not, maybe you shouldn't be on this thread.


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## BurtonAvenger (Aug 14, 2007)

UNION INHOUSE said:


> This is my first post, and the first snowboarding forum I've ever signed up to. Hopefully I can answer any questions pertaining to Union. For the record, I am one of the founders of Union and have been snowboarding for 27 years. That just made me feel very old...... I'm not trying to claim, or try to be the authority of all things snowboarding. I just want everybody to know that I'm not some intern working at C3, and know a thing or two about snowboard bindings.
> 
> 
> Addressing your question - Yes, they are designed this way for added cushion in the heel area. I think you are over-analyzing it a bit (no offense). Just go ride the bindings, and I assure you won't have any issues with the binding being "too soft" in the heel area.
> ...


So who is this then besides anonymous C3 employee? Is it George Kleckner, Martino Fumagalli, John Malkoski, or someone else? Or is this the new account better associated with all of the above and rotating through the employees? Little transparency never hurts vs Internet anonymity. 

Travis might be a great guy (haven't met him) but the whole using him as an example is kind of a bad one. Nothing against you or him, but if you remember when he rode "exclusively" for Bent Metal, he was riding Cartels. 

My .02 cents on your EVA. Nothing wrong with having it in the heel it does help, but aesthetically I probably would have just made it solid so that there wasn't that gap in there so questions like this didn't happen. Once again not hating just pointing out my opinion on it. 



UNION INHOUSE said:


> First of all, Johan isn't our rep. I'm not defending him, just to be clear on that. He's a very passionate person who has sacrificed a great deal for our brands. His wife and kids have as well. So when somebody hates on our brand, he takes it personal. Doesn't make it right, but it is what it is.
> 
> I have no idea what you do for a living, or if you have mouths to feed. If you do, maybe you can understand. Again, I'm not defending his actions or apologize whatever he did.
> 
> ...


Can we all just get it out there that Johan is the Global Sales Guy and technically as an employee/owner/Internet Warlock or whatever is a representative of your brand. 

His actions regardless of pure or for his personal agenda effect you guys as a whole. While it's great to have company people answering questions it does nothing when they get into a penis-measuring-shit-flinging-fanboy-rallying-troll-fest. And yes that's exactly what happened regardless of what anyone says. Bottom line it obviously had some impact on you as a brand because you are here now under this name addressing these points. 

Sacrifices happen to everyone in life and no one can say who has sacrificed more or less than anyone else unless they've literally walked in their shoes. We've all sacrificed something for snowboarding and honestly we'll probably all continue to make more. Just because a person has more invested in a brand than others whether it's the fan boys or the haters or the realists it shouldn't have any effect on how they interact with potential customers or how to get the information out there. You have to keep it neutral regardless if you think/know you are right because at the end of the day you're representing a brand not an individual. 

For what it's worth I think you guys do have a great thing going with how you do the online product clinics, I think you've done well with aligning yourself with die hard brand enthusiasts, and I think your marketing just about destroys everyone else on the market. I'm talking C3 as a whole not just Union here. The level of hype you have is amazing but I think can be a bit blinding as well. 

Now before I give my .02 cents on where I think you're dropping the ball I just want to preface this by saying I'm not here to instigate with Phony, Matty, Alka, or any of your other loyalists/EL guys and I'm definitely not defending anyone from over here like Shred Life. I have too little time for shit like that anymore and since we're all trying to be civil or at least some of us are I figured I could put it out there. If anyone has a problem with me just email me directly [email protected]. 

I think you're missing the point of the people that are saying they're noticing issues with your bindings. It's great feedback for you that there's more than one or two people saying "hey this sucks", they're legitimately saying, "hey we have this issue and have had it for a few years why aren't you addressing this?" Criticism no matter how negative or blunt should be one of your driving forces to going forward and making a better product. Even if you don't like the person you should say "fuck yeah lets fix this and then shove it back down their throat at a demo or on their website or wherever because we believe in our product." What I gather and once again this is just my .02 cents based on opinions and observations is that you guys as a whole can't take criticism. Case in point a few years ago I posted a review on one of your products, I actually really liked it all but one thing (think it was the sidecut) and suddenly that made me a pure blown fucking hater. Not the case I liked everything about it but one thing. You guys got so hung up on that one thing you failed to see that there was a laundry list of things that I thought were great. I've seen this happen with other people. Now if you want to surround yourself with yes men then hey go for it but from my experiences that's when stagnation happens and that just fucking sucks. 

If anything can be learned from Johan's little quest for knowledge is that everyone has their brand preferences, people need to be educated, you guys could have handled that better as a company, this site could have handled it differently, the Internet is full of Warlocks, there just isn't enough male boards with Unicorns, and that going forward snowboarders should work together to make snowboarding better for people coming in.

Also it's a public forum if people want to join regardless of their motives and answer questions, I say go for it. It sucks when you're on a public forum and there's 2 people that are the only ones educated enough to answer the questions. The more people giving more options the better. Hell it's the reason I said fuck it and started my site, got sick of answering questions daily and decided to take control of the content. Keep up the work fellas you might like this place. As for you old fucks that are getting all angry about these guys sticking around don't fear change.

On a sidenote is this going to be the year I can finally get some Capita decks and Union bindings on my site for review or am I still blacklisted?

Flame on guys I'm about to go get my inner nerd on and play call of duty, then plot how to use this chainsaw on some snowboard equipment and make an amusing video.


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## phony_stark (Jul 2, 2011)

BurtonAvenger said:


> Now before I give my .02 cents on where I think you're dropping the ball I just want to preface this by saying I'm not here to instigate with Phony, Matty, Alka, or any of your other loyalists/EL guys and I'm definitely not defending anyone from over here like Shred Life. I have too little time for shit like that anymore and since we're all trying to be civil or at least some of us are I figured I could put it out there. If anyone has a problem with me just email me directly [email protected].
> 
> 
> If anything can be learned from Johan's little quest for knowledge is that everyone has their brand preferences, people need to be educated, you guys could have handled that better as a company, this site could have handled it differently, the Internet is full of Warlocks, there just isn't enough male boards with Unicorns, and that going forward snowboarders should work together to make snowboarding better for people coming in.
> ...


Well said. 

I don't think anyone is trying to flame or catch feelings, I think, like you said, the people that have ridden the gear are trying to offer their opinions/advice on the the gear that people are asking about without a lot of hassle from the people who haven't ridden it (or rode it for a day). 

I know you noticed all the shit going on, and, wisely, decided to keep on doing what you were doing. In fact, I think you even took time out to help a dude set his 390s up.

OP, now that you know that the heel is the way it is, and may make your decision based on that, how grey are those stone atlases? I want a pair to be matchy matchy with my Yes board and Arbor del Rey.


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## addi61 (Sep 20, 2011)

The grey is pretty close to the grey Malavitas from last year if my memory serves me. They are a lot lighter than this years Cartels in the cement colorway. I would say the stock photos on the union site are a good match for the actual color.



phony_stark said:


> Well said.
> 
> I don't think anyone is trying to flame or catch feelings, I think, like you said, the people that have ridden the gear are trying to offer their opinions/advice on the the gear that people are asking about without a lot of hassle from the people who haven't ridden it (or rode it for a day).
> 
> ...


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## phony_stark (Jul 2, 2011)

addi61 said:


> The grey is pretty close to the grey Malavitas from last year if my memory serves me. They are a lot lighter than this years Cartels in the cement colorway. I would say the stock photos on the union site are a good match for the actual color.


YAY! Just what I wanted to know. Thanks.


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## addi61 (Sep 20, 2011)

No problem. I'll get off my own topic for a second and ask if you have ridden the team bindings with the atlas base and team highback at all? If so, how do they compare to the regular atlas? Thanks.



phony_stark said:


> YAY! Just what I wanted to know. Thanks.


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## Alkasquawlik (Jul 13, 2010)

addi61 said:


> No problem. I'll get off my own topic for a second and ask if you have ridden the team bindings with the atlas base and team highback at all? If so, how do they compare to the regular atlas? Thanks.


I rode the Teams all last year, the only difference being that this year's are gray compared to last year's black/orange color scheme.

I'm riding the stone Atlas' this season.

They're really comparable, the Team highback is a tiny, tiny bit stiffer IMO, due to it being a solid piece (compared to the Atlas' cored out highback), but the difference between the two are negligible. Ride almost exactly the same.


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## addi61 (Sep 20, 2011)

So probably not worth trying to track down a pair of teams or superpros.



Alkasquawlik said:


> I rode the Teams all last year, the only difference being that this year's are gray compared to last year's black/orange color scheme.
> 
> I'm riding the stone Atlas' this season.
> 
> They're really comparable, the Team highback is a tiny, tiny bit stiffer IMO, due to it being a solid piece (compared to the Atlas' cored out highback), but the difference between the two are negligible. Ride almost exactly the same.


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## phony_stark (Jul 2, 2011)

You'll be able to track them down, but it'll be hard/expensive to do so until the end of the season.

If you're talking ride-ability, I believe Alka, in that there's not enough of a difference in the highback to change the way you ride. Sure do look cool though.

If you want more a feeling in the heel AND a team highback, see if you can still find some Union Holdens. They'd fit the bill.


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## Alkasquawlik (Jul 13, 2010)

Unless the color scheme makes you go from 6 to midnight whenever you look at them, probably not.

You'll pay a pretty penny for them as well if you end up finding a pair.


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## Alkasquawlik (Jul 13, 2010)

phony_stark said:


> If you want more a feeling in the heel AND a team highback, see if you can still find some Union Holdens. They'd fit the bill.


The Holden pairs are titties. so good looking.


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## addi61 (Sep 20, 2011)

I have a pair of forces and they served me well but I would like to get away from the force base plate. The hard plastic in the heel section feels bad on my heel because the soles of my boots are pretty soft and low profile. 



phony_stark said:


> You'll be able to track them down, but it'll be hard/expensive to do so until the end of the season.
> 
> If you're talking ride-ability, I believe Alka, in that there's not enough of a difference in the highback to the way you ride. Sure do look cool though.
> 
> If you want more a feeling in the heel AND a team highback, see if you can still find some Union Holdens. They'd fit the bill.


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## Alkasquawlik (Jul 13, 2010)

addi61 said:


> I have a pair of forces and they served me well but I would like to get away from the force base plate. The hard plastic in the heel section feels bad on my heel because the soles of my boots are pretty soft and low profile.


Force has the Stage 2 baseplate, the Atlas has a Stage 3.

They're really similar bindings, I rode the Forces for years, and this is my second season on the Atlas base. The Force is a just a tad bit more responsive than the Force, but let us know how you like the Atlas after you get some days on them!


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## phony_stark (Jul 2, 2011)

I actually think, and this is not to push kool aid on you, with a low profile heel in your boot that soft eva pad in the back is something you're gonna be into when you start riding them.


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## UNION INHOUSE (Nov 13, 2012)

ShredLife said:


> well he is a sales rep for Union/Capita isn't he?
> 
> what does having children have to do with it?
> 
> ...


I think you missed my point, and battling with you probably isn't going to change how you feel. 

You don't like Union or our Sales Manager. Got it.


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## UNION INHOUSE (Nov 13, 2012)

BurtonAvenger said:


> So who is this then besides anonymous C3 employee? Is it George Kleckner, Martino Fumagalli, John Malkoski, or someone else? Or is this the new account better associated with all of the above and rotating through the employees? Little transparency never hurts vs Internet anonymity.
> 
> *George Kleckner.*
> 
> ...


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## UNION INHOUSE (Nov 13, 2012)

addi61 said:


> Thanks for answering my question! If for some reason I did have an issue with the EVA coming apart would that be covered under the base plate warranty? If you don't mind me asking, why didn't you just fill the whole heel with EVA like the contact pro?


It would be covered under the lifetime warranty, yes. 

Actually, if you look at our entire binding line, most of the models don't have it "filled in". The purpose is to alleviate binding to board contact, even if it's EVA. Even EVA gets stiff in the cold. 

Thanks for the support!


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## Leo (Nov 24, 2009)

UNION INHOUSE said:


> First of all, Johan isn't our rep. I'm not defending him, just to be clear on that. He's a very passionate person who has sacrificed a great deal for our brands. His wife and kids have as well. So when somebody hates on our brand, he takes it personal. Doesn't make it right, but it is what it is.
> 
> I have no idea what you do for a living, or if you have mouths to feed. If you do, maybe you can understand. Again, I'm not defending his actions or apologize whatever he did.


First of all, I'm glad you are here to provide constructive help for your customers. 

I do need to interject though and comment on this post of yours...

Let's not bring a story about having a wife and kids into this discussion. Because if you want to do that, I would like to point out that I also have a wife and two kids. I also work in the industry and sacrifice a lot of my time to help riders into the right gear. And yes, I do in fact help them with Unions if that is what they are interested in.

Why do I bring this up? Because it's ironic that you mention his family when that very man brought this stupid beef of his into my WORK EMAIL when I was asking for information on your products so I could list them online informatively/creatively. Then to add insult to injury, his cronies at the Boyne Mt test fest were trash talking under their breaths around me like I'm some type of ignorant fool.

So that's great he cares about his company and has a family to help support. How about showing that same level of respect for others in the same situation. NOT ONCE did I ever send your company an email about his actions. NOT ONCE did I EVER bring my employer into this beef.

At any rate, I'm 100% speaking the truth when I say it's nice to have you here. So far you have been 1000% more professional than the man you defend. And yes, by bringing up a story about his family you are in fact defending him.

Have a nice day.


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