# 2013 union binding >HELP<



## ShredLife (Feb 6, 2010)

i took a really huge shit the other day.... then i looked down and realized it was actually just a Union toe strap.


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## JBthe3rd (Jan 31, 2012)

I have this same issue with my 2013 SL's it really pisses me off. The toe ratchets suck! Not to mention how easy the paint as scratching right off of the highbacks...


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## arnyxp (Jan 8, 2013)

ShredLife said:


> i took a really huge shit the other day.... then i looked down and realized it was actually just a Union toe strap.


sigh.... duck....

edit: forgot the "" sad face


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## outofcontrol (Jan 9, 2013)

I just orderd a ride 3d thingrip strap replacement kit to switch my union toe straps  so yeah, they're (putting it gently) not that good


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## Extremo (Nov 6, 2008)

The straps are sick. If you can't figure out how to release them, that's not the bindings fault. 

Hint: Press down, lift up. Simultaneously.


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## BurtonAvenger (Aug 14, 2007)

Extremo said:


> The straps are sick. If you can't figure out how to release them, that's not the bindings fault.
> 
> Hint: Press down, lift up. Simultaneously.


Now I know it's tough for you to comprehend this with your blind fanboyism but all these people saying the same thing means it's the product not them!


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## Extremo (Nov 6, 2008)

BurtonAvenger said:


> Now I know it's tough for you to comprehend this with your blind fanboyism but all these people saying the same thing means it's the product not them!


Yeah, the ratchet is sticky. Not a news flash. But it's not hard to figure out. It'd be like some asshole bitching that Burton's ratchets skip. It happens, but it doesn't take a genius to figure out how to press down simultaneously while ratcheting. You can either bitch about it, or figure out you're doing something wrong.


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## BurtonAvenger (Aug 14, 2007)

Or they could take the feedback and finally build something that works properly. Hard concept I know.


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## Extremo (Nov 6, 2008)

BurtonAvenger said:


> Or they could take the feedback and finally build something that works properly. Hard concept I know.


Best ratcheting mechanism on the market. Never skip, never pre-release. For the extra ounce of brain cells it takes to figure out how to get out of them, it's worth it.


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## arnyxp (Jan 8, 2013)

Extremo said:


> The straps are sick. If you can't figure out how to release them, that's not the bindings fault.
> 
> Hint: Press down, lift up. Simultaneously.


worked :yahoo: 

guess i found that extra brain cell :blowup:


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## BurtonAvenger (Aug 14, 2007)

Extremo said:


> Best ratcheting mechanism on the market. Never skip, never pre-release. For the extra ounce of brain cells it takes to figure out how to get out of them, it's worth it.


Never release? Seen more than my fair share of kids fly out of these things.


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## Gdog42 (Nov 11, 2012)

Yeah, I have a pair and they are a bitch to release. Extremo's right about pressing on the back of the ratchet with your thumb while pulling of on the front- that's what's been working for me. I use the DLX/Flite ratchets- they're much easier to release than the others, as I have a pair of the Force ratchets and they can be difficult to work with.

All Union needs to do is put a friggin release lever on the toe ratchets like they have on the ankle ratchets. That would reduce their #1 complaint by *a lot.* 
It's not complicated, if Union's reading this.


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## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

Unions toe ratchet being difficult to release does not translate into holding better. The locking teeth are on an independent pin within the ratchet housing. Their ability to hold the ladder has nothing to do with the way the rest of the mechanism pressures it to release. Their is NO benefit to its design and to be completely honest it's a dated racthet mechanism. Do it the way Burton/Flux do it, or use the industry standard, a 3 pin with a release lever. No reason not to.


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## Gdog42 (Nov 11, 2012)

Nivek said:


> Unions toe ratchet being difficult to release does not translate into holding better. The locking teeth are on an independent pin within the ratchet housing. Their ability to hold the ladder has nothing to do with the way the rest of the mechanism pressures it to release. Their is NO benefit to its design and to be completely honest it's a dated racthet mechanism. Do it the way Burton/Flux do it, or use the industry standard, a 3 pin with a release lever. No reason not to.


That's not the problem. The problem is that there's no release lever on the toe ratchets. So because of a lack of leverage that would be provided by one, more force needs to be applied to release the toe ratchet.

I guess that's why they called it the "Force" binding.

Yes I know, that was a shit joke.


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## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

Gdog42 said:


> That's not the problem. The problem is that there's no release lever on the toe ratchets. So because of a lack of leverage that would be provided by one, more force needs to be applied to release the toe ratchet.
> 
> I guess that's why they called it the "Force" binding.
> 
> Yes I know, that was a shit joke.


I dont understand where I lost you. Many argue that Unions toe ratchet being harder to release means it wont pop as easy. I was assuming that's more or less what Fanboy was getting at by making the comment he did about their funcionality, and giving an explanation as to why it's complete nonsense.


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## Gdog42 (Nov 11, 2012)

Nivek said:


> I dont understand where I lost you. Many argue that Unions toe ratchet being harder to release means it wont pop as easy. I was assuming that's more or less what Fanboy was getting at by making the comment he did about their funcionality, and giving an explanation as to why it's complete nonsense.


Sorry about that.
You were saying that the reason the Union ratchets are hard to release is because "The locking teeth are on an independent pin within the ratchet housing." The reason it's like that is so when the ratchet is released, both the lock and the ratchet itself are pulled up to give the ladder more clearance, rather than the lock only moving up like on other bindings.

This design can't be a problem because the heel ratchets work the exact same way but have a release lever, which puts enough leverage on the lock for easy release. The toe ratchets don't have the a lever, so the ratchet has to be pulled up at both ends on the outside and there's less direct leverage on the lock, if you get what I mean.

I think the reason Union doesn't have a release lever on the toe ratchet is because it's smaller and looks cleaner without one, but that just makes difficult to use and backfires on their idea of simplicity.

I hope Union will take more notice of these complaints and will fix this issue next season. All they need to do is add a little more material in the right shape and place to create a new mold for that part (a smaller version of the heel ratchet release lever).


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## Extremo (Nov 6, 2008)

Nivek said:


> Unions toe ratchet being difficult to release does not translate into holding better. The locking teeth are on an independent pin within the ratchet housing. Their ability to hold the ladder has nothing to do with the way the rest of the mechanism pressures it to release. Their is NO benefit to its design and to be completely honest it's a dated racthet mechanism. Do it the way Burton/Flux do it, or use the industry standard, a 3 pin with a release lever. No reason not to.


I disagree. The 3 piece design of burton and flux results in stripping. Any tweak and it skips ladder steps. I'm not saying it's bad, and can't be averted with careful pressure, but it's just a drawback of this design. 

The Union design is perfected. They've profiled it so low there's no room for error. It's superior in hold and ratcheting. And the release is easy when you apply thumb pressure on the top and lift with the index finger simultaneously.


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## Gdog42 (Nov 11, 2012)

Extremo said:


> I disagree. The 3 piece design of burton and flux results in stripping. Any tweak and it skips ladder steps. I'm not saying it's bad, and can't be averted with careful pressure, but it's just a drawback of this design.
> 
> The Union design is perfected. They've profiled it so low there's no room for error. It's superior in hold and ratcheting. And the release is easy when you apply thumb pressure on the top and lift with the index finger simultaneously.


Your right, but only if a person knows specifically to do that. The binding instructions don't have anything about it, and when I first got them I was thinking _how the balls do I release this?_ Of course a second later I realized the easiest way to do it, but there are some people who lack common sense. I've seen several guys in the lift lines who bitch about it but when they try to take off the toe strap, they just try to do it only using their index finger. I have to explain to them to also use their thumb, then they stop bitching about it.

They could release it like that if Union had release levers on their toe ratchets but because of the look, I assume, they don't. This is the only reason I could think of for this- there's definitely enough room to have a lever like there is on the ankle ratchet. I think this is a stupid excuse, if that is the reason. Sacrificing functionality for a better looking product was a mistake here.


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## jennifer (Dec 18, 2012)

I have a pair of union flite bindings. I love them, have never had a problem with the release. Guess I am lucky. I am however completely pissed that the pretty pink paint is chipping off in one or two spots already. I have only spent time on the bunny hill. Not like I am tearing down the mountain or anything.


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## Gdog42 (Nov 11, 2012)

jennifer said:


> I have a pair of union flite bindings. I love them, have never had a problem with the release. Guess I am lucky.


I agree, but it's not because of luck.
I have the DLX and Force bindings. My bro has the Flites. The DLX and Flite both have the same toe ratchet, which is a lot easier to release than that of the other Union bindings.

Also, the lock on The DLX/Flite ratchets opens up wider which makes them easier to slide on the ladders. I have a DLX toe ratchet on my back binding and a Force ratchet on my front binding, since I get out of the back binding after every run. Both sets of my straps are from the Force bindings, and I use the DLX ankle ratchets too.



jennifer said:


> I am however completely pissed that the pretty pink paint is chipping off in one or two spots already. I have only spent time on the bunny hill. Not like I am tearing down the mountain or anything.



Annoyingly, the paint on my heel loop and toe ratchets has also started to chip off. :angry: That happens with everyone's though.
You could return them if possible and go with another brand if it bothers you. 
The biggest parts- the base and highback- are not painted, so you don't have to worry about those.

I do think they could have made the paint more durable though. I wonder how much more they'd cost if the parts were powder-coated instead of painted? That would last a *long* time.


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## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

I was not commenting on why the ratchet was hard to open. You made that assumption based on nothing. I was purely commenting on the ratchets ability to stay put on the ladders while riding.

When properly adjusted and used correctly you don't strip ladders with Burton or Flux ratchets. If you're maxing out the ladder and trying to choke your ankle then yes, you will strip ladders. But if you're doing that, you didn't set up your bindings right or you're in the wrong size.

Oh and good job pointing out 2 brands that you "claim" have inferior ratchets. And can you really say that they perfected their toe ratchet in year one? Cause I'm pretty sure the mechanism is the same.

You failed to explain why they aren't using a release like on the ankle either. That one seems to stay put just fine and not strip. While I've never had an issue with Burton/Flux ratchets I still prefer a 3 pin (there's isn't) like K2, Ride, and Salomon now use. It has as much power and accuracy as your beloved Unions and then also releases 10 times eaiser.


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## jdang307 (Feb 6, 2011)

I haven't used all of the brands, but the best ratchets I've used were Raidens.

Burton was pretty good too. Rome's been ok so far.


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## JBthe3rd (Jan 31, 2012)

In comparing my 2013 Union SL's to my 2012 Burton Cartel's ... The Unions and that toe ratchet are arguably pieces of $&@; ... But the color scheme goes perfect with my NS Cobra BIA


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## vukovi21 (Feb 17, 2012)

Extremo said:


> The straps are sick. If you can't figure out how to release them, that's not the bindings fault.
> 
> Hint: Press down, lift up. Simultaneously.


that is what i am telling people all the time,just press down a little and it is all good,are they the smoothest NOOO,but is this really a problem NOOOOO

press down and pull and all is good,have a '12 forces it was an issue for a day,and when i say an issue i mean it needed me a second more to unbuckle,just came home from the mountain and no problems what so ever!!!


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## Extremo (Nov 6, 2008)

Nivek said:


> I was not commenting on why the ratchet was hard to open. You made that assumption based on nothing. I was purely commenting on the ratchets ability to stay put on the ladders while riding.
> 
> When properly adjusted and used correctly you don't strip ladders with Burton or Flux ratchets. If you're maxing out the ladder and trying to choke your ankle then yes, you will strip ladders. But if you're doing that, you didn't set up your bindings right or you're in the wrong size.
> 
> ...


Union isn't using the release lever on the toe ratchet as they do on the ankle because it would look retarded and it isn't necessary. Again, you just need to pull and press...no need for a lever. 

Ride uses the same mechanism. They've also perfected this ratchet design. They just use a lever, which I think looks ridiculous and, again, is completely unnecessary.

10 times easier? Seriously, pull and press simultaneously. For some it may take some practice. But if you work really really hard, you will get it some day.


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## BurtonAvenger (Aug 14, 2007)

Union toe ratchets, same as Drake from 15 years ago. Time for a design change and progression.


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## vukovi21 (Feb 17, 2012)

in all honesty i think that idea is for someone that doesnt own a pair of unions and is thinking of buying them can get an idea of how they will perform...

you can argue about the toe cap(fits my ambush boots so no problem there) but to bitch about the buckle come on..great bindings...everyone def helped me way back when i was contemplating what to buy

and that what its all about helping others that didnt have a chance to own them,or else we can go on and on like should a get a burton or some other board stuff...personal preferences but the buckle is just fine


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## seant46 (Dec 8, 2009)

vukovi21 said:


> in all honesty i think that idea is for someone that doesnt own a pair of unions and is thinking of buying them can get an idea of how they will perform...
> 
> you can argue about the toe cap(fits my ambush boots so no problem there) but to bitch about the buckle come on..great bindings...everyone def helped me way back when i was contemplating what to buy
> 
> and that what its all about helping others that didnt have a chance to own them,or else we can go on and on like should a get a burton or some other board stuff...personal preferences but the buckle is just fine


It may be fine to some, but that has been unions number one complaint by people for seasons now. I think its just being ignorant as a company to not take that feedback.


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## Extremo (Nov 6, 2008)

BurtonAvenger said:


> Union toe ratchets, same as Drake from 15 years ago. Time for a design change and progression.


Proving once again you're a dumbass. 



vukovi21 said:


> in all honesty i think that idea is for someone that doesnt own a pair of unions and is thinking of buying them can get an idea of how they will perform...
> 
> you can argue about the toe cap(fits my ambush boots so no problem there) but to bitch about the buckle come on..great bindings...everyone def helped me way back when i was contemplating what to buy
> 
> and that what its all about helping others that didnt have a chance to own them,or else we can go on and on like should a get a burton or some other board stuff...personal preferences but the buckle is just fine


Don't fret, these two have been hardcore Union haters for years now. I always find it's funny they go ape shit over product that uses the same exact designs, yet takes any chance they get to shit on Union. You know what they say about turds of a feather...

BA use to shit all over brands back in his elsnowboardo days...he use to get flamed to shit back then, it was pretty f'n hilarious do watch him get douched on a daily basis. Which is why you shouldn't listen to gear whores when it comes to product. Listen to people who actually buy their shit. When you've got skin in the game you take the time to pay attention do good product, which is why I'm still riding Union. Some of the garbage these guys orgasm over is embarrassing to snowboarding.


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## Derp (Feb 3, 2012)

Bought the new Force this year on a recommendation. Absolutely hated them for the first couple weeks. 

Instead of pissing and moaning though I researched threads. Search function over and over again on several different sites.

Took me another couple weeks to finally dial them in. Little by little through trial and error. I'm not gonna lie, it was a bitch. Pretty damn happy now and the more I beat the shit out of them the better they seem to fit.

Would I recommend them to someone else? Not unless they wore the exact same boot I wore and in the exact same size. I probably wouldn't even buy another pair in the future unless I started seeing a lot less threads like this.

That being said, people need to realize that shit don't often fit perfect right out of the box. 

As far as paint chipping, ffs it's snowboarding, not ballet. If you are more worried about how you look then how you ride then you likely buy your shit from Zumiez.


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## jennifer (Dec 18, 2012)

Derp said:


> As far as paint chipping, ffs it's snowboarding, not ballet. If you are more worried about how you look then how you ride then you likely buy your shit from Zumiez.


Not saying I am more worried about how I look than how I ride. What I am saying is that I spent a lot of money on my bindings, I have used them 3 times...on a bunny hill. NO reason for them to be chipping already. I think for what we spend on gear we should be able to expect it to ride well AND look good for more than 5 minutes. I don't think that is too much to ask. 

Also...I did ballet for 10 years, and no serious ballerina cares more about looks than function. In ballet you buy a pair of expensive new toe shoes...and then you proceed to beat the hell out of them, burn them, rip them just to make them more functional on your feet. So you should not compare things you know nothing about.


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## atr3yu (Feb 15, 2012)

jennifer said:


> Not saying I am more worried about how I look than how I ride. What I am saying is that I spent a lot of money on my bindings, I have used them 3 times...on a bunny hill. NO reason for them to be chipping already. I think for what we spend on gear we should be able to expect it to ride well AND look good for more than 5 minutes. I don't think that is too much to ask.
> 
> Also...I did ballet for 10 years, and no serious ballerina cares more about looks than function. In ballet you buy a pair of expensive new toe shoes...and then you proceed to beat the hell out of them, burn them, rip them just to make them more functional on your feet. So you should not compare things you know nothing about.


I agree, I would like them to look good for awhile if possible. Helps on resale value. I don't have many days on my Capos yet, but I have hit a few trees, rocks, ate shit a few times, they look flawless. In fact I still haven't torn the toe webbing.


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## BurtonAvenger (Aug 14, 2007)

Extremo said:


> Proving once again you're a dumbass.
> 
> Don't fret, these two have been hardcore Union haters for years now. I always find it's funny they go ape shit over product that uses the same exact designs, yet takes any chance they get to shit on Union. You know what they say about turds of a feather...
> 
> BA use to shit all over brands back in his elsnowboardo days...he use to get flamed to shit back then, it was pretty f'n hilarious do watch him get douched on a daily basis. Which is why you shouldn't listen to gear whores when it comes to product. Listen to people who actually buy their shit. When you've got skin in the game you take the time to pay attention do good product, which is why I'm still riding Union. Some of the garbage these guys orgasm over is embarrassing to snowboarding.


Funny I remember you biting your pillow and crying over your lack of knowledge or informed decision making. Also repeatedly being owned because your blind fanboyism clouds your judgement. I know this is a hard concept but when everyone says the same thing about a product having a fault and continually saying why can't they fix this and the brand ignores it, then it's the brands fault to recognize that they need to fix the problem. Hell by your own admission in other threads you recommend swapping the toe straps out for another brands. So are you admitting it's faulty as well or can Union do no wrong?

Let me give you a little history lesson here Extremo and you can look this up. Martino Fumagali (sp) and George Kleckner (pretty sure there's 2 other guys in there as well think Bob Gungam and Johan) worked for Drake during its heyday in the late 90's early 00's before the brand decided to shove its head up its ass. 

Those guys made in my opinion some of the best bindings at that time because you were limited to Preston/Ride (Crap), K2 (explosive crap) Burton (plastics that ate themselves and ratchets that exploded, also had a weird fit on bulkier boots), Technine (explosive bindings), and a few others. It was during this time period Drake was pretty much on everyone's feet if you weren't sponsored by another company. At that time definitely the most durable binding. 

These guys left and formed Union which is why the design cues are very similar. The problem is that a majority of their design ideas haven't changed since then. All one has to do is look at the fucking ratchets. Sure they worked back then but things have gotten so much better since then. Now you can sit around and not care about progression, but me personally I like having an iPhone over a Zach Morris brick, I like a Ps3 over a NES, and I definitely like bindings that are minimalistic but have increased functionality.

So Jr. what do you have to say to all that? 

Now for 2014 supposedly there's a drastic overhaul on their binding line. I'm curious to see what's changed and to see if they've addressed the heel cup slip issues, ratchets, toe strap fit, that lame ass piece in the highback that sits between the strap and highback that seizes up on new bindings, as well as the dampening, and then there's my personal favorite the double ejection factor on the bindings. Would I be willing to try them? Yeah it's been a few years since I bothered to give a fuck about hopping on some Unions. 

Normally I avoid getting into it with dipshits of your diminished mental capacity these days, but I felt compelled to speak up against your blind fanboyism. Also before you say Nivek is a full on hater, kid owned 3 pairs for his personal set ups over the years and had all those issues, yet continued to ride them till he had that big revelation you never will because your extra chromosomes hinder your thought process and bought some real bindings.


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## Gdog42 (Nov 11, 2012)

After reading this thread I emailed C3 yesterday about not having a release lever on the Union toe ratchets, which would solve the problem of them being difficult to release. I expect they already knew, but I also mentioned it was their most common complaint in most of the reviews I've seen.

They came back today with this:

"This is handled for next season. Thanks for the feedback."

:yahoo:

Problem solved. ...Hopefully.


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## Extremo (Nov 6, 2008)

BurtonAvenger said:


> Funny I remember you biting your pillow and crying over your lack of knowledge or informed decision making. Also repeatedly being owned because your blind fanboyism clouds your judgement. I know this is a hard concept but when everyone says the same thing about a product having a fault and continually saying why can't they fix this and the brand ignores it, then it's the brands fault to recognize that they need to fix the problem. Hell by your own admission in other threads you recommend swapping the toe straps out for another brands. So are you admitting it's faulty as well or can Union do no wrong?
> 
> Let me give you a little history lesson here Extremo and you can look this up. Martino Fumagali (sp) and George Kleckner (pretty sure there's 2 other guys in there as well think Bob Gungam and Johan) worked for Drake during its heyday in the late 90's early 00's before the brand decided to shove its head up its ass.
> 
> ...


Thank you for regurgitating the same story that has been all over the web for the last 7 years. 

You know what else drake used 15 years ago? A baseplate, also an ankle strap, also a heel loop. You're an idiot. There are 2 types of toe ratchets on the market, 2 piece and 3 piece. You're telling me Rome, Raiden, Ride, and Union, who all use this design, have failed to innovate? I actually find this design to be superior to the other. But, to each their own. 

4 years ago Union had a problem with their toe ratchet sticking. I still have them. They redesigned them the next year. Now it's the strongest ratchet design on the market. The one heel cup slipping problem was on this forum and caused by user error, never heard of it again. Toe strap is redesigned, works perfectly. Dampening is perfect, I know you like inch thick pillows under your feet, but that's because your a pussy. I prefer to actually feel my binding. Double ejection? What's that about no pic didn't happen? This doubly applies to you. 

Remember back int he snowboard.com days when 90% of what came out of your mouth was entirely made up? Looks like you're just the same old tard. Which is too bad. If you only had some credibility left, I'd actually think you had some value. Instead you're a waste of time.


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## Extremo (Nov 6, 2008)

Gdog42 said:


> After reading this thread I emailed C3 yesterday about not having a release lever on the Union toe ratchets, which would solve the problem of them being difficult to release. I expect they already knew, but I also mentioned it was their most common complaint in most of the reviews I've seen.
> 
> They came back today with this:
> 
> ...


I hope they don't do anything to the ratchet. It's perfect exactly how it is.


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## Gdog42 (Nov 11, 2012)

Extremo said:


> I hope they don't do anything to the ratchet. It's perfect exactly how it is.


That's true, but adding a release lever would only mean a new mold of the same release part but with a perpendicular extension piece (lever).

You could still release it the same way they do now if they did add the lever, if you preferred. 
The actual release piece would be exactly the same but with more material so it could be pulled directly form outside the ratchet housing. It wouldn't change the performance of the ratchet one bit. It would just give it an easier way to open.


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## BurtonAvenger (Aug 14, 2007)

Extremo said:


> Thank you for regurgitating the same story that has been all over the web for the last 7 years.
> 
> You know what else drake used 15 years ago? A baseplate, also an ankle strap, also a heel loop. You're an idiot. There are 2 types of toe ratchets on the market, 2 piece and 3 piece. You're telling me Rome, Raiden, Ride, and Union, who all use this design, have failed to innovate? I actually find this design to be superior to the other. But, to each their own.
> 
> ...


I see you're still butt hurt about being owned so bad for the last decade. What's it like waking up every day and realizing you suck at life. 

Yes because I just ride around with a camera taking photos of everyone riding all the time. Unlike you I actually fucking ride. 

Hmm looking at the Union ratchets and the Rome, Flux, Flow, Raiden, Ride and Burton ratchets I have here I can see the complete differences. How are you so inept at looking at it and going a push down release is not the same as a lever release. Then again you're the same guy that comprehend that all these people with the same problem on the same products must be right. Hmm consensus must be a hard thing to understand. I think those extra chromosomes from your mom being your cousin haven't helped. 

Don't get so bent because people see through your blind fanboyism and lack of understanding anything.


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## Extremo (Nov 6, 2008)

Gdog42 said:


> That's true, but adding a release lever would only mean a new mold of the same release part but with a perpendicular extension piece (lever).
> 
> You could still release it the same way they do now if they did add the lever, if you preferred.
> The actual release piece would be exactly the same but with more material so it could be pulled directly form outside the ratchet housing. It wouldn't change the performance of the ratchet one bit. It would just give it an easier way to open.


There already is an easy way to open it. Pressing and lifting simultaneously. It's just as easy without the lever as it is with it. Just some people for whatever reason can't seem to figure it out. Low IQ? Who knows.


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## Gdog42 (Nov 11, 2012)

Extremo said:


> There already is an easy way to open it. Pressing and lifting simultaneously. It's just as easy without the lever as it is with it. Just some people for whatever reason can't seem to figure it out. Low IQ? Who knows.


Yes you're right. I know it's easy when done correctly. 

What I'm saying is that there are people out there who can't seem to figure out how do release it correctly/easily, which it appears you've also observed. I see them almost every time I'm in the lift line. 
The very first time I did it I didn't realize I had to pull up on the front with my index finger while pushing down on the back end with my thumb at the same time. That was with the easier DLX ratchets. Now I have the Force ratchets, although I'm doing it the right way they still need a good amount of effort to release when fully cranked down. It's an issue. No matter how good they hold, they simply shouldn't be a pain in the ass the release.

Think of it like this: With a release lever you get the same performance but with 2 ways to release it- the same traditional way and an *obvious way*, for those guys that moan about it.

I imagine that Union will be adding this next season for financial reasons, too. Most of the time the toe ratchets are their only complaint, and if they crack down on it and fix the issue there will be much less complaints, resulting in more sales. 
More sales = more money
More money = good brand lasting longer

I don't want to see Union bindings lose popularity and fall because of something as stupid as a missing extension of plastic. I'm pretty sure that you don't neither, so you should be happy that they're pushing hard to stay competitive by their fixing their only real problem. 

It might not be a problem for you and me because we're aware of the easy way to release the ratchets; but it is a problem for anyone else who buys the bindings and doesn't read this forum or doesn't realize how to do it the easy way. 
It's not like the ratchets are going to lose anything they already have, so I don't see what's wrong with it. It's all beneficial.

Now, who wants bacon? :tongue4:
http://www.snowboardingforum.com/off-topic-general-discussion/54137-bacon.html


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## Extremo (Nov 6, 2008)

Gdog42 said:


> Yes you're right. I know it's easy when done correctly.
> 
> What I'm saying is that there are people out there who can't seem to figure out how do release it correctly/easily, which it appears you've also observed. I see them almost every time I'm in the lift line.
> The very first time I did it I didn't realize I had to pull up on the front with my index finger while pushing down on the back end with my thumb at the same time. That was with the easier DLX ratchets. Now I have the Force ratchets, although I'm doing it the right way they still need a good amount of effort to release when fully cranked down. It's an issue. No matter how good they hold, they simply shouldn't be a pain in the ass the release.
> ...


It's unnecessary. Especially just to appease a few dipshits who can't figure out how to release a toe strap. If they're having that hard of a time, maybe the other complexities of snowboarding may be too much for them too. Consider it a litmus test.


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## ARSENALFAN (Apr 16, 2012)

I am really, really, feeling the love throughout this thread.


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## Chef Jer (Apr 3, 2011)

All I can think of reading this thread is:


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## jennifer (Dec 18, 2012)

Extremo said:


> It's unnecessary. Especially just to appease a few dipshits who can't figure out how to release a toe strap. If they're having that hard of a time, maybe the other complexities of snowboarding may be too much for them too. Consider it a litmus test.


You know...I was actually on your side of things in the begining of this thread. But your nasty attitude and absolute inability to even attempt to look at things in another persepective has changed that. 

OK...so lets assume you are right and there is no problem and everyone else out there is just stupid. Maybe union should at least put proper way to release in their own INSTRUCTIONS. Not everyone is a pro, not everyone who buys a union binding is going to be an expert or know that there is a particular way to do this. Many of them are going to be frustrated and not understand why their binding is giving them so much shit...so they will take it back. 

I am a very new rider. Bought a pair of union flite bindings after my very first day of boarding. Very first night when I set them up in my living room I got one stuck. (I did say earlier I had never had one stick, but I was mistaken) Managed to yank it free and then came here to this forum to see what was up. Discovered that there was an easier way of doing things and have not had a single issue since. Love my bindings. But I had already found this site. Had I not known there were sites like this out there I would have popped those babies right back in the box and exchanged them for the purple burtons I was looking at in the same trip. Why is is such a BFD to you for them to put a simple stupid peice of plastic there to help out some newbies or some people who may have never rocked a union binding before? Or at the very least make mention of the mechanism in the instructions that come in the box? 

I should not have to go searching online to figure out how to use my gear. Something like "how to release ratchet" should be included on that little sheet of paper that says "how to mount binding". 

Again....Love my union bindings so far. Don't love your superior attitude or your assesment that anyone who would like to have a release lever or proper instructions is just stupid. That is assinine and makes you look like some 15 year old stuborn child playing on his mommys computer. Just saying.


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## NWBoarder (Jan 10, 2010)

jennifer said:


> You know...I was actually on your side of things in the begining of this thread. But your nasty attitude and absolute inability to even attempt to look at things in another persepective has changed that.
> 
> OK...so lets assume you are right and there is no problem and everyone else out there is just stupid. Maybe union should at least put proper way to release in their own INSTRUCTIONS. Not everyone is a pro, not everyone who buys a union binding is going to be an expert or know that there is a particular way to do this. Many of them are going to be frustrated and not understand why their binding is giving them so much shit...so they will take it back.
> 
> ...


You're gonna fit right in around here. :eusa_clap:


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## Gdog42 (Nov 11, 2012)

Yep, some people just can't accept change. Even if it's a good thing. :dunno:

Extremo, I honestly would have expected you to support Union's decision to do something about their toe strap ratchets if you like the brand so much.

Or maybe they should paint "PUSH HERE" on the back of the ratchets and "PULL HERE" ON THE FRONT... but then paint chips off.  So, that wouldn't be a solution.

Adding a release lever will make EVERYONE IN THE SNOWBOARDING WORLD happy, or at least ok, with Union bindings. That will also help people like us because we wouldn't have to waste our time on the forums explaining to everyone who complains the easiest way to release them.

Besides, it's Union- whatever they do is still going to be the same good indestructible shit, so there's nothing to worry about! :thumbsup:
Except the paint.


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## Extremo (Nov 6, 2008)

jennifer said:


> You know...I was actually on your side of things in the begining of this thread. But your nasty attitude and absolute inability to even attempt to look at things in another persepective has changed that.
> 
> OK...so lets assume you are right and there is no problem and everyone else out there is just stupid. Maybe union should at least put proper way to release in their own INSTRUCTIONS. Not everyone is a pro, not everyone who buys a union binding is going to be an expert or know that there is a particular way to do this. Many of them are going to be frustrated and not understand why their binding is giving them so much shit...so they will take it back.
> 
> ...


Sorry to sound like a dick, but if you'd been around this forum for any length of time, you'd know the Union/Anti-Union debate has been heated for a long long time. It was once Burton/Anti-Burton (talk about fucking childish). 

I'm all for a good brand battle, whatever floats your board. But some people know the difference between a newb having trouble figuring something out for the first time, and a legitimate design flaw. My ranting was aimed at the latter.


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## jennifer (Dec 18, 2012)

Gdog42 said:


> Besides, it's Union- whatever they do is still going to be the same good indestructible shit, so there's nothing to worry about! :thumbsup:
> Except the paint.


I already know I am going to get a bunch of crap for this question...but I dont care. You think if I sent mine out to be powder coated it would void my union warranty? Think that would solve my issue with the paint chipping?


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## Chef Jer (Apr 3, 2011)

jennifer said:


> I already know I am going to get a bunch of crap for this question...but I dont care. You think if I sent mine out to be powder coated it would void my union warranty? Think that would solve my issue with the paint chipping?


Save your money:thumbsup: Snowboard stuff gets dinged up... can't be avoided. If it gets bad enough that it really bothers you sell your current stuff next fall and buy new gear.


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## jennifer (Dec 18, 2012)

Extremo said:


> Sorry to sound like a dick, but if you'd been around this forum for any length of time, you'd know the Union/Anti-Union debate has been heated for a long long time. It was once Burton/Anti-Burton (talk about fucking childish).
> 
> I'm all for a good brand battle, whatever floats your board. But some people know the difference between a newb having trouble figuring something out for the first time, and a legitimate design flaw. My ranting was aimed at the latter.


Even if it is not a design flaw...dont you think at the very least union should include a note of this in their instruction sheet? Personally I think everyone should buy and use whatever bindings make them happy. We all have things that are deal breakers for us...this design (whether is is flawed or not) is going to be a deal breaker for some people. Would having them add a lever be a deal breaker for you? If not...then why shouldnt union do what they can to make as many people happy as possible? Personally the paint issue is a bigger deal to me. And you can all call me stupid or whatever for saying that. Why even bother putting paint on them if it is only going to start chipping and looking like crap on day 1? THAT is a design or quality control flaw.


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## Extremo (Nov 6, 2008)

jennifer said:


> Had I not known there were sites like this out there I would have popped those babies right back in the box and exchanged them for the purple burtons I was looking at in the same trip. Why is is such a BFD to you for them to put a simple stupid peice of plastic there to help out some newbies or some people who may have never rocked a union binding before? Or at the very least make mention of the mechanism in the instructions that come in the box?


And you do realize you would have had to figure out how to release your Burton toe strap the exact same way right? That's how life works sometimes, you just have to figure some shit out on your own. Some people decide to bitch about it instead. Glad you're not one of them...


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## dofman (Jan 17, 2011)

jennifer said:


> Even if it is not a design flaw...dont you think at the very least union should include a note of this in their instruction sheet? Personally I think everyone should buy and use whatever bindings make them happy. We all have things that are deal breakers for us...this design (whether is is flawed or not) is going to be a deal breaker for some people. Would having them add a lever be a deal breaker for you? If not...then why shouldnt union do what they can to make as many people happy as possible? Personally the paint issue is a bigger deal to me. And you can all call me stupid or whatever for saying that. Why even bother putting paint on them if it is only going to start chipping and looking like crap on day 1? THAT is a design or quality control flaw.


put your pants over your binding if it bothers your that much, no one's looking at them anyway. ride more, care less about cosmetic.


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## jennifer (Dec 18, 2012)

dofman said:


> put your pants over your binding if it bothers your that much, no one's looking at them anyway.


My point, again, is that if I am spending that much money on something I should not have to put my pants over them. Yes, they are good bindngs. I am not bothered enough by it that I want to take them back (yet). 

And people DO look at them. I have had at least 5 different people tell me how nice they are and ask me where I got them. Paint chips are not bad yet...but make me worry about what they will look like by the end of the season. Last car accident I had didnt do any mechanical damage...but I still didnt want to drive around with a big ass dent in my car. Guess that makes me superficial. 

I get that a lot of people would not be bothered by it. But I expect certian things when I spend money on them. If they had been half the price I would be half as worried about it.


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## Chef Jer (Apr 3, 2011)

jennifer said:


> Paint chips are not bad yet...but make me worry about what they will look like by the end of the season. Last car accident I had didnt do any mechanical damage...but I still didnt want to drive around with a big ass dent in my car. Guess that makes me superficial.


You are not superficial. However, you are falling into ice and snow... this will scratch and chip your bindings. Just as driving your car repeatedly into snow banks would damage your car.

All bindings are going to incur cosmetic damage... it's unavoidable:dunno: Unions hold up better than Rome and not quite as good as Burton (from a cosmetic standpoint) but you will never purchase a binding/board that does not show wear after use. None of these cosmetic issues effect how products perform so you have to accept it.


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## JBthe3rd (Jan 31, 2012)

Some of y'all are funny... I totally agree.. I payed 250+ for these Union SL's and after one day of riding the paint was already starting to chip off pretty bad .. That didn't happen on any of my others... (Burton or Ride) so it's not normal or acceptable.. Some of us like for our ish to look good ! Especially after paying all of that money for it !


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## ShredLife (Feb 6, 2010)

extremo you dick-riding fanboy freak... your gaping butthole must be a bloody mess with all the Union dick you ride.


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## jojotherider (Mar 17, 2011)

ShredLife said:


> extremo you dick-riding fanboy freak... your gaping butthole must be a bloody mess with all the Union dick you ride.


dude, you totally got him! zing!

I'm kinda new around these parts, but dayam, get over yourselves people. Ride what you want to ride, like what you want to like, like more than one brand. Your experience is different from everyone else. So you having a bad experience doesn't mean everyone is going to have a bad experience. 

I have a set of Contact Pro bindings that I love. I got them for almost half off recently. I almost didn't get them because I felt like the ratchet was sticking a bit in the store (and I had also read about this one lots of sites). I gambled anyway. now that they're on the board, I don't really notice the sticking much. they certainly don't release like my Burton bindings (Custom/Triad/P1) or my Rome Targas did. However, I also don't think they are so difficult to release that I gotta go piss in someone's cornflakes.

Jennifer - Have you tried making a warranty claim? If they're chipping so bad trying going that route. Wouldn't hurt anything. Hopefully, you won't have to go without bindings. Maybe try the shop you bought them from and see if they will do something about it. I think you're right, if you spent the money on them, you should expect them to look good. Bindings aren't exactly wear parts like tires or something. Sure they take a beating, but they're not supposed to just crumble to nothing.

I like bindings from Burton, Union, Rome, K2, Ride and anyone else that is going to offer some features that I like. No reason to go brand bashing.

-joel


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## Gdog42 (Nov 11, 2012)

jennifer said:


> I already know I am going to get a bunch of crap for this question...but I dont care. You think if I sent mine out to be powder coated it would void my union warranty? Think that would solve my issue with the paint chipping?


Sorry, I wasn't giving you crap. I was actually agreeing with you. If you pay that much money for a product, whether or not it's a pair of bindings, the paint on the metal parts should *not* start chipping off that soon.

One day on a bunny hill is just too early. I went an entire season last year and the paint on the heel loop only started to chip off after a really icy day in CO (This was over Spring Break so it was one of my last days of the season.)

It did chip off the toe ratchets a little before, but that didn't bother me because at that point I'd been using them for while. One day on the bunny hill sounds ridiculous. 
Exactly what binding model and color are they? Also, where on the bindings did the paint chip off? Sometimes, in manufacturing, some paint colors can be weaker than others.


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## smokebelch109 (Nov 6, 2012)

Hey, i just borrowed a pair of these off a friend, took me a few goes to figure out how to use them but theyre not that hard at all and are made pretty well ergonomically for your hand to release them.

They feel sturdy like theyre not gonna just come off by accident too which i like.

Admittedly at the first attempt i thought 'woah its stuck, have i broken it?' once you learn how to operate it as it was intended its really a very nice and SECURE system.


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## Extremo (Nov 6, 2008)

jennifer said:


> My point, again, is that if I am spending that much money on something I should not have to put my pants over them. Yes, they are good bindngs. I am not bothered enough by it that I want to take them back (yet).
> 
> And people DO look at them. I have had at least 5 different people tell me how nice they are and ask me where I got them. Paint chips are not bad yet...but make me worry about what they will look like by the end of the season. Last car accident I had didnt do any mechanical damage...but I still didnt want to drive around with a big ass dent in my car. Guess that makes me superficial.
> 
> I get that a lot of people would not be bothered by it. But I expect certian things when I spend money on them. If they had been half the price I would be half as worried about it.


Are you going to bitch about base scratches and top sheet dings too? What about your laces wearing out on your boots? Skid marks on your baselayer? Are you just unhappy about life in general?


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## Derp (Feb 3, 2012)

jennifer said:


> My point, again, is that if I am spending that much money on something I should not have to put my pants over them. Yes, they are good bindngs. I am not bothered enough by it that I want to take them back (yet).
> 
> And people DO look at them. I have had at least 5 different people tell me how nice they are and ask me where I got them. Paint chips are not bad yet...but make me worry about what they will look like by the end of the season. Last car accident I had didnt do any mechanical damage...but I still didnt want to drive around with a big ass dent in my car. Guess that makes me superficial.
> 
> I get that a lot of people would not be bothered by it. But I expect certian things when I spend money on them. If they had been half the price I would be half as worried about it.


Just a thought and I realize you are unhappy about your paint chipping, but what about finding a nail polish that matched your bindings? That might provide some sort of a "cover up"

YES, I know you shouldn't HAVE to do that or anything for that matter, but it might at least stop the chipped spots from getting any worse. You could even apply it to your finger nails and then be all matching! WIN WIN. :yahoo:

Honestly surprised that you have a paint problem. I've over 100 hours with my Force this season and barely show any signs of wear other than the heel cups. and toe straps that are beat to shit lolol.


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## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

Snowolf said:


> Wow! Like holy shit wow!
> 
> Just read through that whole thing and this is the kind of shit that makes me glad summer is coming so I can go rafting the rivers instead of dealing with snowboarders......
> 
> just ride people!


I tend to agree. And while I'm quite often a focus in these threads especially regarding Union I try not to and very rarely resort to personal attacks. 

And I can't count the times I've tried to get across that I do not hate Union. Some of their practises bother me as well as what I and many others believe to be blatant oversights in construction. But I like the brand. They have a very rider driven and fun image. And when they first got going they we're really holding to the creed that Drake set down with a binding that was comfortable, responsive, and would never brake. Its been 8 years though and coming from someone that rode them for 3 years exclusively they, up until this year at least, have felt stagnant. A couple new models and a few other small changes but nothing huge. Their flagship binding, the Force, has only had minor tweaks here and there in the history of the brand. Some good, some not. They started with a rubbery material as the heel bushings that I felt rode much better. The EVA in them just doesnt take up vibration as well. The heel straps are better. And the gen 2 toe strap was better than year one. One thing I like Union for over most I've worked with is the adjustments. You have a much easier time getting someone boots centered on the board and getting an exact width they like with the way the heelcup and toe ramp adjust.

To hate a brand as a whole is to say I dislike everything they do and everyone there. I don't. I don't even hate all their product. I will hapilly sell Contact Pro's after I make sure the toe strap fits well and clear the customer on the toe ratchet and other than my issues with the toe strap I see no reason why the Flite shouldn't be one of the best budget bindings on the market, I just haven't ridden them yet.

As far as my gripes with the toe ratchet, again, I owned 3 pairs over 3 years. It took me 15 seconds to figure it out. But I also had all six ratchet's retention springs fail around the 20 day mark and the levers would flop about. It never effected the functionality but to call that the best ratchet on the market is silly. And there is only one reason for them not to change to a levered release, cost. From the sounds of the email someone posted they are either adding a lever to it for 2014 or moving towards something similar to Burton/Flux. So as far as the ratchet debate is concerned, I think it's done.

The new Union representative on here has been civil to me and even concerned as to how my attitude towards the product developed. I won't alter my opinions, but in return I'm trying my best to be as objective with the product as I can. Blatant fanboyism isn't helping though.


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## jennifer (Dec 18, 2012)

Extremo said:


> Are you going to bitch about base scratches and top sheet dings too? What about your laces wearing out on your boots? Skid marks on your baselayer? Are you just unhappy about life in general?



I am very happy with my life, though you seem to be one unhappy son of a bitch. Seriously, grow up. 

I have spent less than 10 total hours on a bunny hill....so YES, I would bitch about many of those things if they were already happening! I spend good money on things, and I take care of my things. So it does bother me when things like this are already happening. You seen to just want to start a personal attack on any person who dares to say there is the smallest thing they dont like about these bindings. It is stupid and childish. 

Again....aside from the paint issue I love my union bindings. I bought and took back 3 different pairs before I got these. I have kept these ones. Obviously I like them. But I am not blind to every single issue. It is a good product, but it could be improved upon. I think any normal adult with a fully functioning brain would be open to any improvements that could be made on a product. 

The sad thing is that I am sure with your union crush you will be the first one talking about how the 2014 design is the best ever and union rocks....even after all of you garbage about how nothing needs to be changed. Then I will hopefully be around to tell you what a hypocrite that makes you.


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## UNION INHOUSE (Nov 13, 2012)

arnyxp said:


> worked :yahoo:
> 
> guess i found that extra brain cell :blowup:


Seems like arnyxp got it figured out, right? 

PM sent to make sure. 

People are crazy on here!


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## UNION INHOUSE (Nov 13, 2012)

jennifer said:


> Again....aside from the paint issue I love my union bindings. I bought and took back 3 different pairs before I got these. I have kept these ones. Obviously I like them. But I am not blind to every single issue. It is a good product, but it could be improved upon. I think any normal adult with a fully functioning brain would be open to any improvements that could be made on a product.


Hi Jennifer,

Please send a couple photos of your chipped paint to this address: [email protected]

Feel free to PM me with any questions or concerns. 

Thank you.


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## UNION INHOUSE (Nov 13, 2012)

BurtonAvenger said:


> Union toe ratchets, same as Drake from 15 years ago. Time for a design change and progression.


That is 100% False.


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## Extremo (Nov 6, 2008)

jennifer said:


> I am very happy with my life, though you seem to be one unhappy son of a bitch. Seriously, grow up.
> 
> I have spent less than 10 total hours on a bunny hill....so YES, I would bitch about many of those things if they were already happening! I spend good money on things, and I take care of my things. So it does bother me when things like this are already happening. You seen to just want to start a personal attack on any person who dares to say there is the smallest thing they dont like about these bindings. It is stupid and childish.
> 
> ...


There's a difference between saying 'I can't seem to figure out how to release this ratchet' and "these ratchets suck". The first comment illicits a friendly response like "Just press and lift simultaneously, hope that helps". Blaming the product for you're lack of common sense get's you called an idiot. The response is relative to your initial approach.

And if Union does make a change to its toe ratchet design next year I'll say it was completely unnecessary, but felt the need to placate to whiners like you. Hell, maybe they won't even paint their bindings anymore, just so you won't have any to fall off.


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## snowklinger (Aug 30, 2011)

If bindings are painted how do you not expect them to chip? I would expect it and not care? If you buy a binding that is painted, and you care when it chips, imo, you are a retard. Consider the stress and flex happening. If its not a solid colored plastic or some kind of anodized aluminum, paint is gonna chip off at some point. :dunno:

I'm not an engineer or anything just a simpleton observing the bleeding obvious.


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## Leo (Nov 24, 2009)

Snowolf said:


> The paint issue is not unique to Union either. My Rome Targa`s and 390`s have paint issues too where I have banged them up as do every binding own. My board gets plenty of battle scars as well. Think of these dings, dents, scratches and gouges as battle damage; the give your equipment character and make you look more badass.....
> 
> Funny thing is, I picked up the Contact Pro`s last year for my Cobra and until reading this thread, I had not even noticed the toe strap release issue; it was just intuitive to me.


Had an angry parent come in the shop the other day complaining that his son's brand new Forces' toe ratchet had paint chipping after one day. All I could tell him was that my Rome's were 50x worse with paint chipping off the base, highback, and ratchets. Then I said "But they still do their intended job." Also told him if it bothers him that much that Union would take care of him.

Honestly, what do people expect? Do you go back to your car dealership and complain because a piece of road gravel chipped your paint? This is snowboarding and just like with your car, things are going to hit your gear. If you want it to look pristine, then don't ride. If it bothers you that much, stick to matte colors. Anything with any amount of gloss is going chip.


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## Sudden_Death (Mar 23, 2011)

Leo said:


> Honestly, what do people expect? Do you go back to your car dealership and complain because a piece of road gravel chipped your paint? This is snowboarding and just like with your car, things are going to hit your gear. If you want it to look pristine, then don't ride. If it bothers you that much, stick to matte colors. Anything with any amount of gloss is going chip.


I think the issue people are having is that rocks aren't hitting the car so to speak. The paint is falling off in the driveway, and if that is the case you are bloody right I am going to talk to the dealer about it.


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## jennifer (Dec 18, 2012)

Again...for those who are having a hard time reading or understanding the paint problem. I have spent less than 5 hours on this set of bindings...on a very mellow 50 foot bunny hill. So yeah...I think my complaint is valid. Just because you dont mind your stuff looking like poo after that very minimal amount of use does not mean the rest of us are ok with it. Maybe if people expected better from some companies they would actually meet those expectations. 

I am not usually a complainer. I actually originally mentioned the paint as a side note to the discussion. Because that bothers me more than the ratchet issue....which for me has not been a huge issue. 

I am not a retard, or someone who expects their gear to stay pristine forever. I did however expect it to last more than 5 hours on a nearly flat bunny hill. There are no rocks, no ice, nothing hitting the bindings. I put my board in a bag when storing it, and for the car ride up to the mountain. I do not carry my board by the bindings or lay it binding side down ever. So I think it is retarted to tell me that I should expect to have paint peeling at ths point. 

Also.....as I have said several times, I still like the bindings. I still plan on keeping them. I still like these better than the other 3 pairs I returned. BUT, I did expect them to look nice for a little while. But I guess it is hard for some people to grasp that. If no one gives a crap what their gear looks like then I assume all of you are wearing solid colors with plain black bindings and head to toe monotone. Obviously we all DO care to some extent what we look like. If we didnt they would not sell boards with graphics or pink bindings.


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## Derp (Feb 3, 2012)

jennifer said:


> Again...for those who are having a hard time reading or understanding the paint problem. I have spent less than 5 hours on this set of bindings...on a very mellow 50 foot bunny hill. So yeah...I think my complaint is valid. Just because you dont mind your stuff looking like poo after that very minimal amount of use does not mean the rest of us are ok with it. Maybe if people expected better from some companies they would actually meet those expectations.
> 
> I am not usually a complainer. I actually originally mentioned the paint as a side note to the discussion. Because that bothers me more than the ratchet issue....which for me has not been a huge issue.
> 
> ...


Or maybe you should just have stayed in ballet.

/thread


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## jennifer (Dec 18, 2012)

Derp said:


> Or maybe you should just have stayed in ballet.
> 
> /thread


 Maybe....because at least most of those people had class.


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## Leo (Nov 24, 2009)

Sudden_Death said:


> I think the issue people are having is that rocks aren't hitting the car so to speak. The paint is falling off in the driveway, and if that is the case you are bloody right I am going to talk to the dealer about it.


No. The paint isn't falling off by itself. They sit in the box or the display shelf, which is the equivalent of your driveway analogy, and the paint remains fine. You drive your bindings off the lot and take it off-roading. Some of us jib, jump, and go rock diving. Even if we aren't doing those things, we are still constantly flexing these bindings putting stress on them all the while they continue to get rocked by vibrations.

So then the paint falls off and people think it did it on its own. Again, the paint stayed on just fine when it was sitting on the shelf or in the box. Not to mention getting shipped around.

Long story short? Who cares?


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## UNION INHOUSE (Nov 13, 2012)

jennifer said:


> Maybe....because at least most of those people had class.


I took my daughter to her 1st ballet class on Saturday. She was so stoked! 

Jennifer, I sent you a private message to take care of this.


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## arnyxp (Jan 8, 2013)

UNION INHOUSE said:


> Seems like arnyxp got it figured out, right?
> 
> PM sent to make sure.
> 
> People are crazy on here!


Yeah everything is all good.

crazy how this thread blew up lol... i was just looking for some help :blink:

thanks for your reply.


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## Extremo (Nov 6, 2008)

And....scene.


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## Sudden_Death (Mar 23, 2011)

Leo said:


> No. The paint isn't falling off by itself. They sit in the box or the display shelf, which is the equivalent of your driveway analogy, and the paint remains fine. You drive your bindings off the lot and take it off-roading. Some of us jib, jump, and go rock diving. Even if we aren't doing those things, we are still constantly flexing these bindings putting stress on them all the while they continue to get rocked by vibrations.
> 
> So then the paint falls off and people think it did it on its own. Again, the paint stayed on just fine when it was sitting on the shelf or in the box. Not to mention getting shipped around.
> 
> Long story short? Who cares?


I don't think anyone is saying it is falling off by itself, just that with the lightness of the use so far it sounds like it should be holding up far better. To go back to this car analogy, your paint shouldn't fall off hitting a pothole at normal city speeds. As for who cares, she said she is happy with how they work and that is truly what matters. However when people spend good money they expect a certain quality and Union is a company that likes to place itself in the upper echelon of binding makers. If this were Lamar or some big box brand I could see saying you get what you pay for but people are paying a premium for the Union name and the quality that should come with it. It is nice to see that Union is listening and I commend them for that. Their supporters should take some cues from the way the company has handled themselves in the various Union threads.They are big boys, they don't need their fans going all reactionary and crapping on their reputation.


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## jennifer (Dec 18, 2012)

Leo said:


> No. The paint isn't falling off by itself. They sit in the box or the display shelf, which is the equivalent of your driveway analogy, and the paint remains fine. You drive your bindings off the lot and take it off-roading. Some of us jib, jump, and go rock diving. Even if we aren't doing those things, we are still constantly flexing these bindings putting stress on them all the while they continue to get rocked by vibrations.
> 
> So then the paint falls off and people think it did it on its own. Again, the paint stayed on just fine when it was sitting on the shelf or in the box. Not to mention getting shipped around.
> 
> Long story short? Who cares?


Actually...the first paint chip was discovered right out of the box. I have been assured that what is happening with mine does not sound like normal wear and tear. If mine is an abnormal case then I have nothing bad to say about the union bindings at all. 

Long story short...I care.


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## jennifer (Dec 18, 2012)

Sudden_Death said:


> I don't think anyone is saying it is falling off by itself, just that with the lightness of the use so far it sounds like it should be holding up far better. To go back to this car analogy, your paint shouldn't fall off hitting a pothole at normal city speeds. As for who cares, she said she is happy with how they work and that is truly what matters. However when people spend good money they expect a certain quality and Union is a company that likes to place itself in the upper echelon of binding makers. If this were Lamar or some big box brand I could see saying you get what you pay for but people are paying a premium for the Union name and the quality that should come with it. It is nice to see that Union is listening and I commend them for that. Their supporters should take some cues from the way the company has handled themselves in the various Union threads.They are big boys, they don't need their fans going all reactionary and crapping on their reputation.


Thank you.  I am so glad to see that someone here understands what I am saying. 

I did get a personal email from the union rep, and was very suprised and pleased. It really makes me like the brand and the binding I got even more...because they obviously do care about the customer and the quality of their product.


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## Gdog42 (Nov 11, 2012)

Sudden_Death said:


> It is nice to see that Union is listening and I commend them for that. Their supporters should take some cues from the way the company has handled themselves in the various Union threads.They are big boys, they don't need their fans going all reactionary and crapping on their reputation.


Yeah, Union has given me great customer service in the past. At first I tried contacting them from Union's website, but that didn't work. I thought it was a little lame, and even got impatient and said a few negative things about them on a different thread last year, but when I directly contacted C3 it was literally some of the the best customer service I've ever had from a snowboarding brand. :thumbsup:

And I've been through the warranty claims, returns, and various other situations with other brands- C3's service was definitely superior.

Now I've got the chance, I'd actually like to apologize to the Union rep here about some of the garbage assumptions I made about the dude in the setup clinic video, when I got pissed a while ago. I since saw some of the older videos with him and in those he's a really decent guy who really shows the quality that Union is about. Sure he seemed to have a bit more of an aggressive attitude in the 2011-2012 setup video, but I suppose that was just intended to show the abuse the bindings can take. :eusa_clap:


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## Leo (Nov 24, 2009)

jennifer said:


> Actually...the first paint chip was discovered right out of the box. I have been assured that what is happening with mine does not sound like normal wear and tear. If mine is an abnormal case then I have nothing bad to say about the union bindings at all.
> 
> Long story short...I care.


Never said anything about you Jennifer. 

If you and sudden death read my original post, I was talking about a customer that came in angry that his son's jibstick setup had paint chips on the toe ratchet of his Union bindings.

I didn't mention though that the same customer's kid's board had a dinged up base which further proves he was jibbing.

And contacting brands usually nets satisfactory results. Union is on here taking care of people already. 

Sorry if it seemed like I was directing this towards you specifically. I was doing no such thing.


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## Sudden_Death (Mar 23, 2011)

My mistake. I thought you were equating her troubles with the kid who's dad had the complaints about the paint. Also, good to know calling may help. I have been emailing Flow since before Christmas so it looks like I will be giving them a call.


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## Leo (Nov 24, 2009)

Sudden_Death said:


> My mistake. I thought you were equating her troubles with the kid who's dad had the complaints about the paint. Also, good to know calling may help. I have been emailing Flow since before Christmas so it looks like I will be giving them a call.


No, I was relating it to countless others who have over reacted like that dad. Jennifer was calm about the whole thing and wasn't acting like the binding itself was broken. 

Sexist comment: besides, she's a female so...

One of my buddies experienced his first tree runs recently with me. He was a little bummed when he saw his new goggles all scratched up. I said, "What, do you think the goggle is for? Just the sun?" LoL good times.


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## Leo (Nov 24, 2009)

Snowolf said:


> I don't know if you have read the whole thread here or have been aware of other threads on this subject. It is by far a larger percentage of Union haters who have gone over the top with vitriol. If a couple of loyal fans have been a bit reactionary, it is a simple case of cause and effect. Most of what I see here is:
> 
> HATER: Union is shit! The ratchets are garbage
> SUPPORTER: No! They work differently, you need to use them right.
> ...


I'd like to remind you of some of these same Union supporters that were around when Flow had a good following on here Wolfie...

Sorry, I just couldn't help myself with that comment haha.

Off-topic: I should have written you an email instead, but messaged you on Facebook instead because I was already on it so... GO READ AND RESPOND!


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## scotty100 (Apr 3, 2012)

Snowolf said:


> I don't know if you have read the whole thread here or have been aware of other threads on this subject. It is by far a larger percentage of Union haters who have gone over the top with vitriol. If a couple of loyal fans have been a bit reactionary, it is a simple case of cause and effect. Most of what I see here is:
> 
> HATER: Union is shit! The ratchets are garbage
> SUPPORTER: No! They work differently, you need to use them right.
> ...


+1...the union negativity does seem to be over-the-top. When you read some of the threads on here makes me think it's more personal bias than actual product design failure that drives the comments. After watching the union binding set-up videos on YouTube, which are so clear and to the point my old grandmother could set up a pair, I'm left scratching my head as to why anyone would struggle with the toe cap set up and the ratchets look pretty straightforward to release no matter how grippy they make them...which after experiencing my Rome bindings fall to bits after one day on the hill can only be a good thing...:dizzy:


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## Mfoehrkolb (Jan 11, 2013)

Gdog42 said:


> I do think they could have made the paint more durable though. I wonder how much more they'd cost if the parts were powder-coated instead of painted? That would last a *long* time.


--- Are they not already powder coated? I paint for a living (hvlp paint and powder coating), and i highly doubt they are using a 1 stage enamel paint or a 2 stage basecoat/clear coat application. 

Are you 100% sure they aren't powder coated already? Or was your question/statement just speculation?


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## Joe Coffee (Dec 12, 2012)

No he is right. I do find the paint on my heelcups on my forces chips easily. Kinda dissapointed. However the sticky toe cap is not a prob anymore for me after reading that tip about pressing down and pull up at the same time. WORKS BOYZ IT WORKS STOP BITCHIN.


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## Gdog42 (Nov 11, 2012)

Mfoehrkolb said:


> --- Are they not already powder coated? I paint for a living (hvlp paint and powder coating), and i highly doubt they are using a 1 stage enamel paint or a 2 stage basecoat/clear coat application.
> 
> Are you 100% sure they aren't powder coated already? Or was your question/statement just speculation?


Nope. The metal components look like they're painted with an enamel. It's a gloss finish on the DLX and a matte finish on the Force. There doesn't seem to be a clear coat on them, which would help protect the paint. I think that that's all Union's missing. 

The paint on mine has held up great besides a little scraping on the corners of the heel loops (where they've contacted the snow over time) and on the lower edges of the toe ratchets. That was after a whole season of using them, so the paint itself is pretty durable. It would last longer though with a clear coat, unless they already have one and I just haven't noticed.


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## East§ide (Mar 14, 2011)

heres my take :

for a binding specific company to have SO many issues and SO many complaints, it is clearly not the user who is at fault. While you could probably make a billion minute adjustments to somehow make the bindings work for you, the sad truth is that the same issues that were on the 2010, 2011, and 2012 Unions continue to appear on the newer versions. The toe strap is garbage..i stood in zumiez yesterday and compared it to every single toe cap they had..from ride EX's to burton citizen womens bindings..they were the floppiest, thinnest toe caps with the absolute least amount of friction-causing material on the inside of the toe caps. Holding them next to a pair of Burton Mission bindings, the Missions seemed better in literally every sense. I just wish that Union would take some feedback from their customers and make the simple changes that we're all hoping for.


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## arnyxp (Jan 8, 2013)

So after figuring out that to undo my toe strap all you have to do is push+pull i have to say... i love my union contacts they're sooooo sick. the ankle straps undo so easily and the toe strap give me the security i need cause i know they won't slip. :yahoo:


still have to see how my paint holds up though seeing thats the 2nd major complaint.


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## East§ide (Mar 14, 2011)

arnyxp said:


> So after figuring out that to undo my toe strap all you have to do is push+pull i have to say... i love my union contacts they're sooooo sick. the ankle straps undo so easily and the toe strap give me the security i need cause i know they won't slip. :yahoo:
> 
> 
> still have to see how my paint holds up though seeing thats the 2nd major complaint.


i hope they dont slip..


also, the paint on my acid green forces is shot..the plastic is one color, the metal another, the leather another, the padding another..and the heelcup is all chewed up


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## Extremo (Nov 6, 2008)

East§ide said:


> heres my take :
> 
> for a binding specific company to have SO many issues and SO many complaints, it is clearly not the user who is at fault. While you could probably make a billion minute adjustments to somehow make the bindings work for you, the sad truth is that the same issues that were on the 2010, 2011, and 2012 Unions continue to appear on the newer versions. The toe strap is garbage..i stood in zumiez yesterday and compared it to every single toe cap they had..from ride EX's to burton citizen womens bindings..they were the floppiest, thinnest toe caps with the absolute least amount of friction-causing material on the inside of the toe caps. Holding them next to a pair of Burton Mission bindings, the Missions seemed better in literally every sense. I just wish that Union would take some feedback from their customers and make the simple changes that we're all hoping for.


You have so many complaints because such a large percent of the snowboard community is riding them. From my time on the hill, as well as my experience in this forum, I know more people riding Union than any other brand. I'm almost starting to notice more people ride Union than all other brands combined. 

And 90% of the complaints are pathetic. 4-5 years ago they had a problem with their toe ratchets. They redesigned them. People didn't like the 2nd generation toe cap. They redesigned it. People wanted more dampening on the foot bed. They redesigned it. The complaints now are just from pathetic whiners. The bindings are great just the way they are.


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## Mel M (Feb 2, 2012)

Yeah, unfortunately I have to agree. The problem is I liked everything else about the Union Atlases over most Burtons when I bought them last year. The high back, ankle strap, heelcup adjustability, etc. The cap strap kept slipping off during runs whether I had on my Burton Rampants or Salomon Synapses, even on mellow runs.

I just bought Burton Getta-grip toe straps and now it's perfect, but it would be nice not to have this issue out of the box.


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## East§ide (Mar 14, 2011)

Extremo said:


> You have so many complaints because such a large percent of the snowboard community is riding them. From my time on the hill, as well as my experience in this forum, I know more people riding Union than any other brand. I'm almost starting to notice more people ride Union than all other brands combined.
> 
> And 90% of the complaints are pathetic. 4-5 years ago they had a problem with their toe ratchets. They redesigned them. People didn't like the 2nd generation toe cap. They redesigned it. People wanted more dampening on the foot bed. They redesigned it. The complaints now are just from pathetic whiners. The bindings are great just the way they are.


im starting to wonder if you work with them or are trying for a sponsorship? i would say that more people ride one form or another of Burton bindings than any other...from LTR rentals to Genesis and Diodes, and you NEVER hear people complaining about the quality of the bindings. I'm not kidding when i say my gf's old starter pair of Burton Citizen bindings that cost $120.00 seem to be made of better quality and just make more SENSE. The toe cap makes no sense to me, i dont care how you spin it... leather is not good when it is wet, and it expect a toe cap to hold a boot in securely when it is shapeless, and has a leather interior with NO texture or rubber is inane and clearly someone doesn't understand the concept of friction. i can't for the life of me fathom how redesigning their toe cap somehow makes it okay that the second design sucks..guess what? you can redesign a car and it can still be a redesigned piece of shit. im happy you like them, but to call an entire group of people who dropped a nice chunk of change on an underwhelming product "whiners" just shows how tightly you're dangling from their sack


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## Extremo (Nov 6, 2008)

Seriously, the Union toe strap is better than my Burton getagrip strap (for those following along, the getagrip isn't that responsive). Just because you either don't like it or can't figure it out doesn't mean you have to dedicate your life to ripping on them. You should try like... snowboarding, or something.


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## East§ide (Mar 14, 2011)

Extremo said:


> Seriously, the Union toe strap is better than my Burton getagrip strap (for those following along, the getagrip isn't that responsive). Just because you either don't like it or can't figure it out doesn't mean you have to dedicate your life to ripping on them. You should try like... snowboarding, or something.


i do like, snowboard or something, assclown. i would say you're far more dedicated to kissing Union's ass than i am to ripping on them. I'm giving an honest assessment of the problems I've had with my unions..im 27 years old, I have a full time career, I'm pretty sure I can figure out how to set up bindings..I've tried every position for both the ankle and toe caps..it doesnt matter how you spin it, wet leather does not provide ANY sort of grip, and the shapeless floppy flacid piece of perforated leather doesnt even fit correctly around the toe box of most boots. I'm entirely entitled to my opinion (which is based in FACT), and not liking them due to a major part of their binding is a fair reason to complain.


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## Extremo (Nov 6, 2008)

East§ide said:


> i do like, snowboard or something, assclown. i would say you're far more dedicated to kissing Union's ass than i am to ripping on them. I'm giving an honest assessment of the problems I've had with my unions..im 27 years old, I have a full time career, I'm pretty sure I can figure out how to set up bindings..I've tried every position for both the ankle and toe caps..it doesnt matter how you spin it, wet leather does not provide ANY sort of grip, and the shapeless floppy flacid piece of perforated leather doesnt even fit correctly around the toe box of most boots. I'm entirely entitled to my opinion (which is based in FACT), and not liking them due to a major part of their binding is a fair reason to complain.


So you'd rather spend your sullen life pissing over something instead of moving on. I hated my experience with flux. You don't see me jumping on every flux thread bashing the company. I found something I liked better. Some people like Flux better, I don't. 

Maybe you need new boots if you can't get the toe strap to fit. I've ridden the BFB's and 32 sonics, both with rounded toes and the Andreas Wiigs and currently the Celsius Cirrus, both with boxed toes and had no problems with either. I don't know why you're havng a hard time. Sale season is coming, try Ride or something.


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## East§ide (Mar 14, 2011)

im just going to go back to cartels or missions..since the missions are basically last years cartels. i just feel like if you have an issue with Union, you get bashed on for it. I'm clearly not the only one having these problems, and I'm sure not everyone is using the same boot as me.
I don't have a sullen life, but considering you're sitting in front of a computer also, what's your excuse? I'm letting people know my personal experience with my bindings..not everyone is made of money and can just go and grab a new set of bindings or boots when they're unhappy with the product.
Again, im not pissing over anything..if people asked me about my board or boot experience id be just as honest..for better or worse


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## UNION INHOUSE (Nov 13, 2012)

East§ide said:


> i hope they dont slip..
> 
> 
> also, the paint on my acid green forces is shot..the plastic is one color, the metal another, the leather another, the padding another..and the heelcup is all chewed up


These neon colors are very difficult to work with, especially green. It's impossible to perfectly match colors of fabric, injected EVA, painted materials, and pigment plastic injection. Why is your heelcup "all chewed up"? 

For the record, we don't have an issue with paint quality. Bindings are painted 1 by 1, by hand, by humans. There will always be a few bad ones due to human error. If there is an instance where things are chipping beyond normal wear and tear, the person is always taken care of. It's probably less than 20 people a year. 

People who are upset about scratches and ****** from normal wear and tear are going to be upset with any binding they buy. You ever heard of a kid trying to return a skate deck because it got scratched up? It happens. 

Yesterday I started having a problem with one of the doors on my car. I googled it, and found a forum for my exact car. Lots of people had the same issue, and several of them were pretty mad about it. "They've been making cars for 100 years - how can they screw up a door latch?" That's when I realized that the only reason any of the posters on there was due their specific problem with the door. There are probably millions of those cars on the road, and maybe .001% of them had this specific issue, yet the casual observer would assume this is a major problem, and a recall is in order. Same deal here. We sell a lot of bindings, and have less than 1% warranty return rate. That's the main reason Union has had success. 99% of snowboarders will take durability and safety over anything else. Taking care our customers has also been one of our main strengths since day one. 

Thanks for reading, and go have FUN.


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## East§ide (Mar 14, 2011)

UNION INHOUSE said:


> These neon colors are very difficult to work with, especially green. It's impossible to perfectly match colors of fabric, injected EVA, painted materials, and pigment plastic injection. Why is your heelcup "all chewed up"?
> 
> For the record, we don't have an issue with paint quality. Bindings are painted 1 by 1, by hand, by humans. There will always be a few bad ones due to human error. If there is an instance where things are chipping beyond normal wear and tear, the person is always taken care of. It's probably less than 20 people a year.
> 
> ...


I can totally appreciate where you're coming from and you make a fair point. You have to remember that your 1% warranty return rate has other factors involved - for instance, for me, i wouldve dont the warranty return but I cant wait 2-3 weeks for my bindings to come back to me from Seattle. Also, many people probably find a fix to the issues themselves rather than look for a warranty - similar to what you did searching on google. I'm not saying you make a bad product, but anyone would agree there is always room for improvement and the issues that I've had seem to echo others problems as well.
I can understand how difficult it is to match that green in multiple different materials, but as time has gone on, you can definitely see that the plastic has faded to a more yellow color, as have the perforated leather straps. That's okay though, cosmetics are secondary and anything that gets that much use is going to take a beating, especially outdoors. I don't know why my heelcups are all chewed up..I'm far from a pro rider, but I don't spend much time falling down either..:dunno:
Id really love to say at the end of the everything that I was able to make the Unions work and that in the end I was happy with them - that'd be my ultimate goal. Not to complain, but to get the product that I'd heard about and hoped for.


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## Extremo (Nov 6, 2008)

East§ide said:


> im just going to go back to cartels or missions..since the missions are basically last years cartels. i just feel like if you have an issue with Union, you get bashed on for it. I'm clearly not the only one having these problems, and I'm sure not everyone is using the same boot as me.
> I don't have a sullen life, but considering you're sitting in front of a computer also, what's your excuse? I'm letting people know my personal experience with my bindings..not everyone is made of money and can just go and grab a new set of bindings or boots when they're unhappy with the product.
> Again, im not pissing over anything..if people asked me about my board or boot experience id be just as honest..for better or worse


I too have a job...which is why I'm sitting in front of a computer. So if you would get over it already, I've got billings that need to be done. Besides, aren't you also sitting in front a computer? :icon_scratch:

I'm just pointing out, that, in my experience with Union, which has been relatively extensive, I haven't been able to replicate this problem (which is why I'm more than happy with the product) and suspect that you may be doing something wrong, especially considering, in most cases of someone coming here for advice it turns out to be someone with little experience with the product and their problem is easily resolved. I just find it odd that I ride these same bindings 3-4 times a week and still haven't experienced any of these issues. Like Union said, you may be in that 1%.


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## UNION INHOUSE (Nov 13, 2012)

East§ide said:


> I can totally appreciate where you're coming from and you make a fair point. You have to remember that your 1% warranty return rate has other factors involved - for instance, for me, i wouldve dont the warranty return but I cant wait 2-3 weeks for my bindings to come back to me from Seattle. Also, many people probably find a fix to the issues themselves rather than look for a warranty - similar to what you did searching on google. I'm not saying you make a bad product, but anyone would agree there is always room for improvement and the issues that I've had seem to echo others problems as well.
> I can understand how difficult it is to match that green in multiple different materials, but as time has gone on, you can definitely see that the plastic has faded to a more yellow color, as have the perforated leather straps. That's okay though, cosmetics are secondary and anything that gets that much use is going to take a beating, especially outdoors. I don't know why my heelcups are all chewed up..I'm far from a pro rider, but I don't spend much time falling down either..:dunno:
> Id really love to say at the end of the everything that I was able to make the Unions work and that in the end I was happy with them - that'd be my ultimate goal. Not to complain, but to get the product that I'd heard about and hoped for.


Well, let us know if we can help with anything. 

Just FYI, we normally just ask for a photo of the issue. That way you aren't waiting for FedEx to drive back and forth across the country. 

Also, every single Union dealer is given FREE spare parts kits. These kits have buckles, heelcups, ladders, all hardware, forward lean adjusters, toe straps, ankle connectors, and probably a few other things i'm not thinking of. They are asked to take care of ANY Union customer, regardless of where the bindings were purchased. 

So, long story long... If your heelcup is not properly working, call us for a new one, or go in your local shop. Either way, you won't miss a day on snow.


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## East§ide (Mar 14, 2011)

Extremo said:


> I too have a job...which is why I'm sitting in front of a computer. So if you would get over it already, I've got billings that need to be done. Besides, aren't you also sitting in front a computer? :icon_scratch:
> 
> I'm just pointing out, that, in my experience with Union, which has been relatively extensive, I haven't been able to replicate this problem (which is why I'm more than happy with the product) and suspect that you may be doing something wrong, especially considering, in most cases of someone coming here for advice it turns out to be someone with little experience with the product and their problem is easily resolved. I just find it odd that I ride these same bindings 3-4 times a week and still haven't experienced any of these issues. Like Union said, you may be in that 1%.


yup, im also at work sitting in front of my computer. 

and im glad things have worked well for you with union..maybe my boot size isnt compatible with their bindings, maybe im part of the 1%, maybe i just got a really crappy set of toe caps..i dont know the answer, and i dont feel that i should need to justify myself based on my experiences. i paid good money for the bindings and was super stoked about them - i have no desire to complain about them, id much rather be loving them and saying nothing but good things.
I wouldn't say anything negatively about a company unless I felt that it was warranted, and after trying literally every setting on my bindings, they just dont work over the toe box.


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## East§ide (Mar 14, 2011)

UNION INHOUSE said:


> Well, let us know if we can help with anything.
> 
> Just FYI, we normally just ask for a photo of the issue. That way you aren't waiting for FedEx to drive back and forth across the country.
> 
> ...


i appreciate that. i bought the bindings at zumiez and despite beings friends with the managers, when i told them my issues, they didnt mention anything about having spare parts of replacement parts. where would you suggest i go in central nj?
whats your phone # again? i can definitely take pics, but the guy i spoke with on the phone told me id need to send the bindings in to them. thats what initially turned me off from any warranty work - im 3000 miles away lol


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## Extremo (Nov 6, 2008)

East§ide said:


> I don't know why my heelcups are all chewed up..I'm far from a pro rider, but I don't spend much time falling down either..:dunno:


Have you ever seen a a set of Raiden's or 390's after one season? They look worse than my 5 year old Forces. For a metal binding, Union holds up pretty well.


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## UNION INHOUSE (Nov 13, 2012)

East§ide said:


> i appreciate that. i bought the bindings at zumiez and despite beings friends with the managers, when i told them my issues, they didnt mention anything about having spare parts of replacement parts. where would you suggest i go in central nj?
> whats your phone # again? i can definitely take pics, but the guy i spoke with on the phone told me id need to send the bindings in to them. thats what initially turned me off from any warranty work - im 3000 miles away lol


Check your PM:thumbsup:


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## Leo (Nov 24, 2009)

Extremo said:


> Have you ever seen a a set of Raiden's or 390's after one season? They look worse than my 5 year old Forces. For a metal binding, Union holds up pretty well.


My 390's looked like shit after two days on snow...


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## East§ide (Mar 14, 2011)

gracias, thanks!


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## atr3yu (Feb 15, 2012)

So I got to ride my first pair of Union’s. I was at the hill the other day and ran into a guy I knew from around town and he really wanted to try my Bezerker. So I was like sure why not I get to try a Capita DOA and Union bindings, cool. We did three runs on each other’s boards and I must say that I loved how playful his setup was compared to mine. Anyways I was Contacts and without changing any setup on them they worked really well I thought. The toe cap fit my RFL’s well, no slipping off or anything, held them down really tight. The toe strap buckle is a little weird, but after reading over this thread I knew how to get them off. Overall from that 3 run test I would consider buying a pair for sure. I also really loved the DOA board, that thing was awesome. Off topic a little, I think I am going to try a few more softer shorter boards than my Bezerker, but I think I may be in the market for a trade.


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## scotty100 (Apr 3, 2012)

Leo said:


> My 390's looked like shit after two days on snow...


Yeah I had similar experience...my Rome Mobs were fkd after 3 days on the hill, disappointing yes, but rather than whine constantly on a message board I spoke immediately with Rome and got the spare parts delivered quickly. Problem solved. Who cares if they get dinged up riding, they are bindings...what do people expect?! Just make sure they work and do their job and who cares if there's a scratch here or there or the color has faded??!


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## jdang307 (Feb 6, 2011)

Leo said:


> My 390's looked like shit after two days on snow...


I have 2012's, 3 days now, and I don't see any damage really. I got them cheap so I'm expecting them to get fucked up. But so far, no.


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## Mfoehrkolb (Jan 11, 2013)

Gdog42 said:


> Nope. The metal components look like they're painted with an enamel. It's a gloss finish on the DLX and a matte finish on the Force. There doesn't seem to be a clear coat on them, which would help protect the paint. I think that that's all Union's missing.
> 
> The paint on mine has held up great besides a little scraping on the corners of the heel loops (where they've contacted the snow over time) and on the lower edges of the toe ratchets. That was after a whole season of using them, so the paint itself is pretty durable. It would last longer though with a clear coat, unless they already have one and I just haven't noticed.


--- Think im going to open up shop to snowboarders and start powder coating bindings any color they can come up with and or basecoat/clear coat the color of their choice.

I still find it hard to believe they use a basic enamel paint job on them. Makes sense though since its very cheap.


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## Gdog42 (Nov 11, 2012)

Mfoehrkolb said:


> --- Think im going to open up shop to snowboarders and start powder coating bindings any color they can come up with and or basecoat/clear coat the color of their choice.
> 
> I still find it hard to believe they use a basic enamel paint job on them. Makes sense though since its very cheap.



Sounds like a good idea. For Union bindings, you'd only be able to paint the heel loop though, since that's the only painted individual metal part. There are the ratchets, but they have plastic components and can't be taken apart.


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## Mfoehrkolb (Jan 11, 2013)

*2013 union binding &gt;HELP&lt;*



Gdog42 said:


> Sounds like a good idea. For Union bindings, you'd only be able to paint the heel loop though, since that's the only painted individual metal part. There are the ratchets, but they have plastic components and can't be taken apart.


--- There is low temp powder coat available. Down in the 350 degree range for when you bake the powder. Wonder if that would melt the plastic, or just low enough to not.

I'm new to the scene but if this is a common problem with bindings in general. I don't see why people don't offer this as a service. 

Could make someone keep their bindings for an extra season or 2 maybe 3... The price savings would be considerable too. Drop 40-60$ on getting all your metal parts redone any color you want instead of 160-300$ on new bindings.


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## scotty100 (Apr 3, 2012)

I think Union sell spare heel loops on the C3 website for anyone who is concerned with paint chipping...but again, why would anyone be so concerned about paint chipping...?! Use 'em till they fall apart then buy new ones!


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## ShredLife (Feb 6, 2010)

Mfoehrkolb said:


> I'm new to the scene but if this is a common problem with bindings in general. I don't see why people don't offer this as a service.


because for the most part no one gives a shit.


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## Mfoehrkolb (Jan 11, 2013)

*2013 union binding &gt;HELP&lt;*



ShredLife said:


> because for the most part no one gives a shit.


--- ... Touché sir.

What about all the girls out there that care? (figuratively and literally)

My girlfriend is so upset about the scuff she received on the top of her board when a skier slid over it lol.


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## Gdog42 (Nov 11, 2012)

Mfoehrkolb said:


> --- There is low temp powder coat available. Down in the 350 degree range for when you bake the powder. Wonder if that would melt the plastic, or just low enough to not.
> 
> I'm new to the scene but if this is a common problem with bindings in general. I don't see why people don't offer this as a service.
> 
> Could make someone keep their bindings for an extra season or 2 maybe 3... The price savings would be considerable too. Drop 40-60$ on getting all your metal parts redone any color you want instead of 160-300$ on new bindings.


350 degrees (F or C) is still quite high for plastic, and different binding brands use different plastics at different densities. Union uses a Dupont resin which is really dense, but I still wouldn't risk it, unless you could remove the plastic components and only paint the metal ones. Wouldn't you also have to remove the original paint first? The irremovable plastic parts in the way would make that complicated anyway...

Or you could just repaint them in a high-grade enamel and apply a tough, weatherproof and flexible clear coat for protection.


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## Mfoehrkolb (Jan 11, 2013)

Gdog42 said:


> 350 degrees (F or C) is still quite high for plastic, and different binding brands use different plastics at different densities. Union uses a Dupont resin which is really dense, but I still wouldn't risk it, unless you could remove the plastic components and only paint the metal ones. Wouldn't you also have to remove the original paint first? The irremovable plastic parts in the way would make that complicated anyway...
> 
> Or you could just repaint them in a high-grade enamel and apply a tough, weatherproof and flexible clear coat for protection.


--- I would assume i would be able to remove the metal parts in some way or form. If it is possible, powder coating the heel cup and whatever else that is stricly metal is what can be possible, and then just bc/cc or just the enamal ss paint the parts that have plastic around or in them. They do make adhesion promoters and flex agents you can add to the paint to aid in the durability. It's what i have to do to front and rear bumpers of cars so rocks don't chip and people who bump your car doesn't crack the paint.


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