# Snow shoes over split board?



## Bkeller

So ive never done any back country riding before, its something I would love to experience given that I have just moved out to NM from MI. I plan on taking all the necessary avalanche courses and going out with a guide my first few times. 

That being said, while I understand that Split boards give you a major advantage in terms of getting up the mountain faster, they are crazy expensive from what I can see, would it not be far more cost effective to just get a nice pair of snowshoes that can easily strap to my backpack instead? Im under the impression that a splitters main purpose is to keep you on top of the pow and moving quickly? Do people snow shoe instead?

Thanks for helping a mountain noob.


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## Zee

Snowshoes are very tiring... esecially when trying to keep up with people on skis/skins.


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## killclimbz

Yeah snow shoes suck. They are slow, you still post hole, and you have to carry your board on your back. All major disadvantages. They will get you further out than without them, but you are still going to be limited. I'd say snow shoes are a great way to get your first experiences with bc riding, but if you are at all getting into it, you'll want a splitboard. For bc gear splitboards are cheaper than say getting the same set up for a skier. So it's still a good deal. Or you could always buy a snowmobile, but if you thought a splitboard was crazy expensive...


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## killclimbz

Also, keep in mind for the price of a good pair of snow shoes you can make a do it youself splitboard with the Voile split kit. A couple of members of this forum have done it. Cifex and stoepstyle I believe.


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## Bkeller

Thanks for the quick responses guys, Im not sure what im gonna do, If I really get into BC, ill prolly save money on lift tickets etc, im about 3 hours from Taos, Santa Fe, Etc. So weekend trips get expensive with gas 100$, lift tickets 50-70$ a day, plus hotels and food. Maybe a splitter would be the way to go down the road.


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## T.J.

snowshoes suuuuuuuuuuuuuck


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## Zee

Splitter is a big investment... I've been meaning to get one for 2 seasons already.


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## ElChupocabra

Snowolf said:


> For anything else or in early season pow, they suck ass bad. As Kill said, you will still post hole in pow with them and then when you pull your foot out of the hole, you have several pounds of pow on top of your foot and within a mile or two you are pooped.


ugh! don't get me started on how aweful snowshoes are in powder. If you must, just get the largest available size. Most 'snowshoers' just walk around on cross-country trails and don't need to worry very much about floatation and most snow shoes are marketed accordingly. I had to use snow shoes during my avy class at santa fe and was miserable. Probably worth just saving up for a split and post holing until then. Hopefully splits will drop dramatically in price once _stupid_ voile's _stupid_ patent expires. 
My suggestion for you is to take advantage of the $18 two lift pass at santa fe which is sold for the sole purpose of letting people take advantage of their open ropes policy. (both the policy and ticket are kind of a secret)
Taos is definitely worse for backcountry simply because they seem to hire a bunch of conservative fucktards to work on their ski patrol who seem to think backcountry riding (or any development in ski/board culture from the past 15 years) is a personal insult. (the rest of the administration there is perfectly fine.) 
For more info on NM BC check out my post on the avy class: http://www.snowboardingforum.com/back-country-travel/21691-aiare-level-1-new-mexico-colorado.html

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## stoepstyle

Ive bootpacked and snowshoed and once you get going on skins it is so fast. Its ridiculous how fast it is compared to snowshoeing. Get the kit I built my own split and it works like a charm. If you end up building your own talk to me I can give you some pointers


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## linvillegorge

Just bumping this thread to confirm that snowshoes do in fact SUCK ASS!

I went out Sunday and was the only one in the group snowshoeing it. By the time we got to the top I was already pretty spent and I'm in pretty decent hiking shape - I just climbed Longs Peak again a little over a month ago. By the time we got to doing our third run, I was struggling to simply stay upright on my board I was so spent from the hiking, much less do any real riding of any kind.

It really sinks in to you (literally) when you're watching the guys in front of you skinning while sinking in maybe 6" or so while you follow along behind them in their tracks and you're sinking knee deep and just plain killin' yourself.

Needless to say, I am currently in the market for a splitboard. I'll probably pick up a cheap pair of snowshoes on CL to use in the meantime, but I have definitely learned first hand that snowshoes are NOT the way to go longterm. It's expensive to get into backcountry riding. You've already invested in a beacon, shovel, probe, pack, etc. You might as well go ahead and make the leap to pick up a split to make the experience far more enjoyable.


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## killclimbz

I think he has seen the light. 

Though I did tell everyone that by the end of the day you'd say you were getting a splitboard...:laugh:


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## killclimbz

Don't get me wrong. I'm hurting from Sunday, but with the splitboard you can travel much further with less effort. Even so, it's still a lot of effort. Then again, it does nothing but good things for you so it's worth it imo.


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## HoboMaster

I snowshoe a decent amount in the mountains behind my house during the winter. One of the biggest things I notice is that when you have a hardpack of snow, with not a ton of powder on top, snowshoes work pretty good because they have something to compact the new snow onto and tend to not sink so much. If your on a lot of fresh powder though, prepare to get worked, because although they distribute your weight much better then just boots, they still sink.

Like everyone has said, snowshoeing is very athletic. It's a bit like hiking in sand. If your going a long distance, carrying lots of shit on your back, your going to get tired fast. That being said, I think snowshoes will probably serve you well for your first several smaller BC experiences, just to get a better idea of what it's like because just going out and buying a split is expensive. Once you decide snowshoes suck and you want to do lot's of BC, get the split.

Having a pair of snowshoes anyways isn't a bad idea. I have a pair simply because they are necessary where I live if I get snowed in, have to park my car down the road, and snowshoe to my house.


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## snowvols

I bought a split off of CL for 450 including skins. Worked like a charm last weekend and plan on taking it out again this weekend. So glad someone sent that to me if not I was thinking I was going to buy slowshoes for the season.


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## Tauwolf

OK, here's a question, if I can find a pair of snowshoes on the cheap (say under $100), and will only use them for a couple of days in Colorado in January, will I be better off than the other 3 guys who will be booting it? Or is the gain so small that I might as well just save the pennies and boot with them?


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## HoboMaster

Well, depends what kind of hiking you are doing. Personally I think snowshoes are a huge upgrade over booting when your in thick/deep snow. Is this going to be the only time you will ever use them? Like I said before, just having a cheap pair of snowshoes is nice to have anyways. I think you can pick up a "decent" pair from Wal-Mart for like $60-70.


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## linvillegorge

Snowshoes are definitely better than booting, but if you're only going to use them for a few days, you'd probably be better off just renting a pair. REI is $15 for the first day and I think $10 after that.


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## Tauwolf

I think they have some plans to boot The Professor and a couple of other well known spots in that general area. I was kinda hoping you'd say the gain is minimal so I could save my money haha!

I think I may just buy some off ebay or craigslist. If I can get a few days use out of them this year I'll be happy, and then I'll have them for future trips.


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## linvillegorge

Yeah, you get out here on a powder day and try to snowshoe it and you'll be doing like me and rooting through the garage for shit to sell in order to buy a splitboard!

I think I've scrounged up enough to net about $4-500 so far. I'm thinking about selling the 3rd row seat in my Tahoe as well. If I did that, I'd only be a couple of bills away from a new Voile Mojo RX. That's the way I'm leaning. I'd love to have an NS or Venture, but you're looking at about $1300 for those.


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## Zee

linvillegorge said:


> Yeah, you get out here on a powder day and try to snowshoe it and you'll be doing like me and rooting through the garage for shit to sell in order to buy a splitboard!
> 
> I think I've scrounged up enough to net about $4-500 so far. I'm thinking about selling the 3rd row seat in my Tahoe as well. If I did that, I'd only be a couple of bills away from a new Voile Mojo RX. That's the way I'm leaning. I'd love to have an NS or Venture, but you're looking at about $1300 for those.


This is true, I sold 2 of my boards, 2 kids snowboards (the old ones), and some other stuff... I'm sure there are things in the basement I could sell.


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## linvillegorge

My fiance is flipping out about me wanting to sell my leather 3rd row buckets out of my Tahoe, but it's like I told her, my old Tahoe didn't even have 3rd row seating and in the six years I had it, I can't think of a single time when I would've used it. The day I bought my new Tahoe, I took them out and they haven't moved from that spot in the garage during the 8 months I've had it. I don't foresee that changing. All I see is some good money that could be put to use elsewhere.

Matter if fact, I regret even mentioning it to her. If I'd just sold the damn things without saying anything, she'd never know they were gone.

I'm taking my new to me Arbor Element out this Friday. After that I will decide whether it or my 08/09 NS Heritage is getting sold.

I'm pretty sure I'm going to be able to get a Mojo with minimal out of pocket expense, hopefully none.


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## ElChupocabra

Why not grab that new Burton split. More tech than you can shake a stick at and for the very affordale (and un-burton-like) price of $600. Their split costs just as much as some their comparable solid boards. But of course then you have to try to find $300 more for some spark or Voile bindings plus $95 for the BD triple flick lock poles. plus $80 for some mohair-nylon skins. and hundreds more if you need avy gear.
Maybe just sell the whole Tahoe. jk


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## linvillegorge

ElChupocabra said:


> Why not grab that new Burton split. More tech than you can shake a stick at and for the very affordale (and un-burton-like) price of $600. Their split costs just as much as some their comparable solid boards. But of course then you have to try to find $300 more for some spark or Voile bindings plus $95 for the BD triple flick lock poles. plus $80 for some mohair-nylon skins. and hundreds more if you need avy gear.
> Maybe just sell the whole Tahoe. jk


I think the Burton split is just like the Lib Tech though in that it comes with no hardware and isn't even drilled. Hell, if I wanted to go with something like that I may as well just split one of my current boards.


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## snowvols

The Burton split has gotten some pretty rave reviews. I would love to be able to demo several different splits but I do not believe that is possible.


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## killclimbz

Unless something has changed the Burton is pre-drilled with inserts and it has tip/tail clips. But that is it. You still have to buy the Voile or Karakorum system, get skins, and maybe bindings depending on you preference. I also don't see it being at all revolutionary. Pretty run of the mill split actually. It'll do the job.


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## linvillegorge

The way I see it, I'm pretty much between the Voile Mojo and NS. I really want the NS, but for $1100 you get the the full setup with skins and bindings with Voile. The NS costs $1300 and I'd still be stuck with my old Rides for another season.

I'd get a 164 Heritage if I went NS. I'd get a 166 Mojo if I went Voile.

On a side note, I talked to the NS guys at Loveland today. They were doing a demo day and I took a quick run on a 162 Heritage. Nice board. It was a hard pack day and I just bombed one run on it and that was it, so I can't say much. I'll just say that it was a lot more stable at speed than my Evo (duh), but there's still a time and a place for traditional camber and that time and place is going balls to the wall on hard packed groomers.

Anyway, I was asking them about the split sizes and options and what not. They said they'll split anything. Whatever you want. You come into the factory, pick the top sheet you want, pick your base, whatever. You pick it, they'll split it. For $1300, I wouldn't expect any less.


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## killclimbz

Hey Linville. I know some people have the Voile Light Rail binder and as far as the binding itself goes, I'm sure it performs great. There is a design problem with it that the Spark Models don't have. This is a tab at the bottom of the slider plate on the Voile model that cracks and breaks. That's the tab that stops it from sliding off the pucks. The same one the plates have. I have cracked and broke off several on the plates. I have no reason to believe that the binding won't have that problem too. 

For $1300, you get the full kit with the Neversummer, just not the binders. Also with the either boards having rocker on them, you might want to go shorter. 166 is what I ride with regular camber. On the new rocker board I'm getting I'm going around 160-161. You still get a bigger board performance and more nimbleness in the trees. And believe me there are some pretty gnarly tight tree runs around here that we do in mid winter. This ain't Utah, where the snow pack stabilizes a hell of a lot more quickly. We're tree rats in those mid winter months.


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## Zee

linvillegorge said:


> The way I see it, I'm pretty much between the Voile Mojo and NS. I really want the NS, but for $1100 you get the the full setup with skins and bindings with Voile. The NS costs $1300 and I'd still be stuck with my old Rides for another season.
> 
> I'd get a 164 Heritage if I went NS. I'd get a 166 Mojo if I went Voile.
> 
> On a side note, I talked to the NS guys at Loveland today. They were doing a demo day and I took a quick run on a 162 Heritage. Nice board. It was a hard pack day and I just bombed one run on it and that was it, so I can't say much. I'll just say that it was a lot more stable at speed than my Evo (duh), but there's still a time and a place for traditional camber and that time and place is going balls to the wall on hard packed groomers.
> 
> Anyway, I was asking them about the split sizes and options and what not. They said they'll split anything. Whatever you want. You come into the factory, pick the top sheet you want, pick your base, whatever. You pick it, they'll split it. For $1300, I wouldn't expect any less.


I'm surprised they'll split anything, you might want to double check with Vman on that. As far as I know, they are only splitting the Summit, and the Heritage, the Heritage being available in January. It is true they'll put any topsheet and base on it though.

I went with the 160 Summit (5'10 180 lbs) after talking to Vince about it, he said the 160 would be better, and the Summit will have no issues with float. I liked the default topsheet actually.


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## linvillegorge

I really want to demo the Heritage on a pow day. I'm skeptical about the amount of additional float the RC provides. My 158 Evo.doesn't float for shit. My old cambered 160 Heritage floats much better. Now, I realize these boards are on the near opposite ends of the spectrum and I'm comparing apples and oranges. I'd still just like to get that new Heritage in some steep and deep before pulling the trigger on a split.


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## Zee

Surprising, I have an SL-R 158 that I can float in pow pretty easily, I do have to put more weight on the back leg, I think that's going to be the case with any twinnish board. That's why I went with the Summit over the heritage. I don't ride switch or try many spins or tricks when I'm wearing a pack. Plus, pintails are a ton of fun in the trees (I rode a regular cambered mullet for a while on cat trips)


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## kysnowboarder

I guess this is probably a stupid question, but I don't know the answer so I will ask...Do you have to know how to ski to split board? How hard is it to learn to split board?


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## linvillegorge

Zee said:


> I don't ride switch or try many spins or tricks when I'm wearing a pack.


that's actually a good point


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## HoboMaster

Ky, when you are actually riding it's a snowboard, so you don't need to know have to downhill ski. However you do need to know how to skin, which is basically walking with ski's on. You would also need to know how to maneuver the ski's on their edges, incase you are going up a really steep slope and have to side-step or you are on glacial terrain.

These things are easy enough to learn with a little practice. If you are a good snowboarder, picking up downhill skiing is actually really easy. I tried skiing for the first time last year and was going down black diamonds at the end of the first day. While the sports are completely different, many elements are the same for example, like understanding snow conditions, knowing how your edges respond, committing to your turns etc...


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## kysnowboarder

HoboMaster said:


> Ky, when you are actually riding it's a snowboard, so you don't need to know have to downhill ski. However you do need to know how to skin, which is basically walking with ski's on. You would also need to know how to maneuver the ski's on their edges, incase you are going up a really steep slope and have to side-step or you are on glacial terrain.
> 
> These things are easy enough to learn with a little practice. If you are a good snowboarder, picking up downhill skiing is actually really easy. I tried skiing for the first time last year and was going down black diamonds at the end of the first day. While the sports are completely different, many elements are the same for example, like understanding snow conditions, knowing how your edges respond, committing to your turns etc...


Cool, I understood that you "skied" up and snowboard down, but just wasn't too sure how hard the ski up part was to pick up. Are you feet positioned on the split board (when together) the same way they are on a snowboard or are they position forward like on skies?


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## linvillegorge

kysnowboarder said:


> or are they position forward like on skies?


That would be AWESOME... to watch someone else try to do! :laugh:

Nah, they're positioned like on a normal board.


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## kysnowboarder

linvillegorge said:


> That would be AWESOME... to watch someone else try to do! :laugh:
> 
> Nah, they're positioned like on a normal board.


Cool. I have seen people at the fake ski resort going down what looks to be snowboard but they have poles and there feet are forward, I thought they might be on split board, but I guess not. Not sure what type of snow sport it is, but I like my feet being perpendicular to the board better anyways...


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## Zee

That's a monoski..


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## kysnowboarder

Zee said:


> That's a monoski..


Awesome, that is what I saw, I never got a close enough look at it to tell that it was one solid board.


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## snowvols

While skinning at Alta yesterday there were some slight down hills in which I picked up speed. I just pretended I was a tele skier and lifted the hill in order to turn and slow down.


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## Mysticfalcon

Are his legs strapped together? Ive seen people on those at the hill before but I never noticed strapping the legs together. I suppose that is just because I try not to look at them too closely for fear of it rubbing off on me.


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## HoboMaster

It actually looks like they are. It makes sense for what you have to do in order to monoski. Having both legs locked together is vital.

Monoskiing though really is the apex of gaperdom. Telemarking is close up there, but not anywhere near monoskiing.


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## Zee

I'm going to disagree with telemarking being gaper, the guys I know on telemarkss absolutely rip.


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## HoboMaster

Guys on Monoskiis can rip too, but that doesn't help them avoid looking funny as hell.

Being an "ok" skier, I just don't understand telemarking. It's like adding a handicap on purpose. Maybe that's the point :dunno:


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## linvillegorge

I respect the telemark guys, but it is cold hard fact that it is impossible to teleski wothout looking like a complete douche.


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## stoepstyle

Snowolf said:


> This to me is the apex of "Gaperdom"....:laugh::laugh::laugh:



Ha mammoth this summer I saw one pull the biggest donkey kick I have ever seen while boosting about 6 feet out of their summer halfpipe!


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## baldylox

Isn't the point of telemark that you can lift your heel making it easier to skin uphill when touring?


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## snowvols

It is a different type of skiing all together and for some reason they take pride in being a free-heeler. :dunno: There are also Alpine ski setups that allow to lift the heel for skinning up the hill.


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## Mysticfalcon

I ride with some teleskiers that are absolutely nuts. Last year at Jay Peak there was a teleskier in the top 3 in the big air comp. Living in an area with lots of tight backcountry stuff there are a lot of very good teleskiers out earning their turns all the time. Most of the locals on skis either have Tele skis or AT (the releasable heel skis)


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## ElChupocabra

In this day and age I don't really see a place for teleskiing or monoskiing. Both seem to encumber themselves needlessly. Monoski combines the worst aspects of skiing and snowboarding whereas the only advantage teleskiing had was rendered obsolete by Touring bindings for alpine skis. They will be activities relegated to ski blade status soon.


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## Mysticfalcon

ElChupocabra said:


> In this day and age I don't really see a place for teleskiing or monoskiing. Both seem to encumber themselves needlessly. Monoski combines the worst aspects of skiing and snowboarding whereas the only advantage teleskiing had was rendered obsolete by Touring bindings for alpine skis. They will be activities relegated to ski blade status soon.


Im pretty sure that anyone who says that Teleskis will be obsolete and go the way of skiblades doesnt know any real teleskiers.


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## linvillegorge

Mysticfalcon said:


> Im pretty sure that anyone who says that Teleskis will be obsolete and go the way of skiblades doesnt know any real teleskiers.


Like I said, I respect them, but I'll be damned if I'm gonna go down the slope looking like I'm proposing to some invisible woman every time I make a turn.


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