# Need some Advice on Double Blacks



## bseracka (Nov 14, 2011)

If you're not able to make confident heel and toeside turns you need to not be on blacks and doubles. It sounds like you're trying to ride well beyond your skillset, this leads to stagnation of skill and injury.


----------



## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

Snowolf said:


> This applies for both turns but especially so for the heelside turn. The reason you are washing out most likely is because you are most likely too stiff legged and are remaining too far forward at the end of the turn.
> 
> As you no doubt know, to initiate a good turn on steep terrain, you need to shift your weight forward over the front foot. The problem is that often we get so focused on this that we forget that there is a time to get aft on our board. In addition, we have learned to flex (get low) going into each turn and then gradually extend through the turn. What often happens though is we extend through the apex of the turn and then become static through turn completion. Both of these things allow the tail of our board to loose edge hold and skid out from under us.
> 
> ...


So next question....transition from heelside. I have trouble on steeps with the next move from heelside.....I think it has something with the step right after dropping the nose, i.e., getting in position to initiate the turn to toeside. Its just not smooth...it feels rushed and ineffectual. Idk if its a twisted up (counter-rotated) not rotating or not enough pre-rotating, not having enough weight on the nose or not dropping my shoulder enough or being too stiff legged. Thanks


----------



## Flaus (Jan 2, 2012)

Snowolf said:


> Typically, do you find that you have difficulty initiating the toeside turn and pulling the nose up out of the fall line and then having the turn complete very abrupty?


If he isn't talking about this, I would love to know your thoughts on improving this issue (tips, tricks, etc.). On steeper terrain I often find I'm not smoothly initiating my toe side from a heel side turn and have the nose lift up on me. When I place more weight on my front foot and lean downhill, it smooths it up but it's very awkward feeling. Is it just something I have to get used to?


----------



## seriouscat (Jan 23, 2012)

Snowolf said:


> This applies for both turns but especially so for the heelside turn. The reason you are washing out most likely is because you are most likely too stiff legged and are remaining too far forward at the end of the turn.
> 
> As you no doubt know, to initiate a good turn on steep terrain, you need to shift your weight forward over the front foot. The problem is that often we get so focused on this that we forget that there is a time to get aft on our board. In addition, we have learned to flex (get low) going into each turn and then gradually extend through the turn. What often happens though is we extend through the apex of the turn and then become static through turn completion. Both of these things allow the tail of our board to loose edge hold and skid out from under us.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the detailed explanation snowolf. This was the exact same thing my instructor was telling me on yesterday. I booked a lesson for check up on technique and better sketchy condition riding and consistent edge angles. 

He had me do the turns in forward lean and back lean and then combine both motions in conjunction with the dynamic anticipation in upper body. Tried a double black today and while I was still falling/ not consistent, it made a huge difference in confidence. I am so used to leaning forward this will take me a while to work into muscle memory.


----------



## Flaus (Jan 2, 2012)

Thanks Snowolf! That really does help. I would like to see those videos if you don't mind. The wife a d I are going to Utah in January and plan to have more practice runs here on the east coast before heading out there. Would be good to have some drills to practice here before the trip.


----------



## Flaus (Jan 2, 2012)

As always, AWESOME SNOWOLF! Thanks. I will definitely have a couple runs with these drills.


----------



## sixpoint (Nov 17, 2012)

Excellent read. Thank you.


----------



## skip11 (Jan 28, 2010)

@snowolf: What about using "wiper" turns (more like pivot turns, but not all the way to hop turns)? I found myself doing this at times on steeper, uneven terrains.


----------



## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

Snowolf, Thanks! From your excellent instructions, I think my issue is that I have been too late to engage and then over compensating by being too much on my nose when going to toeside. Infact twice did toeside cartwheels (never happens when going heelside) while riding some bc deep steeps on Saturday.


----------



## skip11 (Jan 28, 2010)

Yes, I was talking about turns like that. Snowprofessor also talks about the turn here 

How To Snowboard: Riding Steeps - YouTube


----------



## Stinky Ninja (Sep 12, 2012)

Snowolf said:


> This applies for both turns but especially so for the heelside turn. The reason you are washing out most likely is because you are most likely too stiff legged and are remaining too far forward at the end of the turn.
> 
> As you no doubt know, to initiate a good turn on steep terrain, you need to shift your weight forward over the front foot. The problem is that often we get so focused on this that we forget that there is a time to get aft on our board. In addition, we have learned to flex (get low) going into each turn and then gradually extend through the turn. What often happens though is we extend through the apex of the turn and then become static through turn completion. Both of these things allow the tail of our board to loose edge hold and skid out from under us.
> 
> ...


 Thank you Snowwolf, I really appreciate your detailed explanation. I will use this information when i'm riding tomorrow hopefully it goes better than yesterday!


----------



## Stinky Ninja (Sep 12, 2012)

bseracka said:


> If you're not able to make confident heel and toeside turns you need to not be on blacks and doubles. It sounds like you're trying to ride well beyond your skillset, this leads to stagnation of skill and injury.


I can perform my toeside and heelside turns fine on black diamonds. Riding down double blacks is a lot different technique but thanks.


----------

