# What if boots pack out too much?



## Napoleon (Feb 27, 2013)

I purchased both a size 7 and 7.5 (yes I have small feet) Burton IONS and have been comparing the two (will return whichever I do not keep). But I cannot decide which one to go with!

The size 7 is TIGHT, like to the point where my toes are pressed against the liner. The size 7.5 is comfortable right out of the box and my toes gently gently brush against the liner edge. The 7 needs to pack out a lot to get comfortable (a solid 1/2 size to even be comfortable, maybe 3/4 size), but the 7.5 is fine if it packs out a 1/4 size or so.

That being said, I am leaning towards the 7.5. But, here is the question: If they pack out way more than expected, can something be done down the road? Is there a way to fill in space or ensure better heel hold if they do pack out too much? If I heat mold later on, will that "re-size" the liner? 

None of my friends board (all skiiers) so this forum is really my only source of information. I cannot be the only one in this spot; boots pack out, surely someone has come up with ways to modify?


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## BurtonAvenger (Aug 14, 2007)

Heat molding never makes a boot tighter it makes it fit where it needs to fit. Unless those boots are 1 to 1 molded that 7 and 7.5 are the exact same size.


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## Napoleon (Feb 27, 2013)

I doubt they are the same size? They feel very different.


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## Cr0_Reps_Smit (Jun 27, 2009)

Napoleon said:


> I doubt they are the same size? They feel very different.


I believe the shell of the boot is the same size when it comes to .5 sizes but the liner itself is a slightly different size to make up the difference.


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## Kevin137 (May 5, 2013)

I have the 2014 IONS in both US 9 & 9.5

And on measuring them there is a 5mm difference in outer boot sizing. and the same on the liner, 5mm difference.

I use the 9.5 with thick socks when cold and the 9 with thin socks when above 0.


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## Brewtown (Feb 16, 2014)

Id read that all burton boots are 1:1 but cant confirm that personally. Boots WILL pack out, some more than others, so I always err on the small side. If your toes just brush the liner on the bigger size thats too big, but again just my opinion, im not a boot fitter. Some pressure on your toes is fine, that should break in. Id just make sure the narrower width doesnt cause any pressure points. Im between an 11.5 and 12 with the b boots ive tried. 12s are comfy but too loose in the toes, 11.5s fit snugly around my toes but the overall smaller fit just doesnt work.


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## Napoleon (Feb 27, 2013)

If they are the same shell then and only the liner differs, then does it matter whether I go with 7 or 7.5? I'm still not certain that the shell for the 7 and 7.5 are the same- when I put them in my bindings there is a difference. Maybe the 7.5 and 8 are the same shell?


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## Kevin137 (May 5, 2013)

Measure them... Put a ruler or yardstick on the floor, and against a wall and the boot on top, you will soon see for yourself...!

the difference give or take is 1 cm for every full size...


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## Napoleon (Feb 27, 2013)

The pressure on my toes in the 7 borders on the level of my outer 3 toes curling (which I think is too small). Again, if it packs out 1/2 to 3/4 of a size, great! But if it only packs out 1/4 a size, then ouch. The 7.5 is still pretty snug, don't get me wrong. No heel lift and a 1/4 size pack out will still be snug. If that liner packs out to a full size 8 then I might have slightly too much room.

The boot is solid and even with a pack out I think my heels will stay locked in. My question was really, JUST IN CASE it does give me a bit of heel lift after wearing a lot, can something be done? Or do I just have to throw out a $400 pair of boots


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## ashwinearl (Jan 19, 2010)

Napoleon said:


> The pressure on my toes in the 7 borders on the level of my outer 3 toes curling (which I think is too small). Again, if it packs out 1/2 to 3/4 of a size, great! But if it only packs out 1/4 a size, then ouch. The 7.5 is still pretty snug, don't get me wrong. No heel lift and a 1/4 size pack out will still be snug. If that liner packs out to a full size 8 then I might have slightly too much room.
> 
> The boot is solid and even with a pack out I think my heels will stay locked in. My question was really, JUST IN CASE it does give me a bit of heel lift after wearing a lot, can something be done? Or do I just have to throw out a $400 pair of boots


Are you using an aftermarket insert, like superfeet, etc.? A good insert with structure under the arch can help lift your toes off the front just a hair. This can give you a few mm.

The ION's look to be heat moldable. Look for shops willing to heat mold boots not purchased there or professional ski boot fitters. You can mold them while wearing some toe covers which can give you a little bit of room.


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## Kevin137 (May 5, 2013)

But you still don't know if it is just the liners that are a different size or not...

Measure the actual boot as well...!

All boots are uncomfortable while they pack out, i had a couple of days in BOTH sets of mine, and i get heel lift in neither of them even in thin socks... 

You keep repeating yourself with the fact that even the 7.5 is snug... if that is the case, just keep the 7.5 and be done with it...!


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## Extremo (Nov 6, 2008)

Napoleon said:


> The pressure on my toes in the 7 borders on the level of my outer 3 toes curling (which I think is too small). Again, if it packs out 1/2 to 3/4 of a size, great! But if it only packs out 1/4 a size, then ouch. The 7.5 is still pretty snug, don't get me wrong. No heel lift and a 1/4 size pack out will still be snug. If that liner packs out to a full size 8 then I might have slightly too much room.
> 
> The boot is solid and even with a pack out I think my heels will stay locked in. My question was really, JUST IN CASE it does give me a bit of heel lift after wearing a lot, can something be done? Or do I just have to throw out a $400 pair of boots


I typically buy boots that allow my toes to touch the end of the liner. But your toes pressing into the liner means it's too small. You should be less concerned with how they fit length wise and more with how they fit around your foot. I say go with the 7.5.


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## Napoleon (Feb 27, 2013)

Yes, definitely using after market insoles. I have plantar fasciitis and must have proper support. I've tried Zaps, Sole, and Superfeet, but none have been comfortable. I recently started using Abeo insoles (made by the walking company) and my feet were in heaven.

The insoles do take up space and the sizing I am discussing includes the insoles in them. The 7 fits perfect without the insoles, but once you put aftermarkets in them, it get VERY VERY tight in there (hence the toes jamming).


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## Kevin137 (May 5, 2013)

Are we even having the same conversation in here...???

It seems that you are answering questions that are not answered and ignoring the ones that are...

Go to a shop and get a boot fitter to tell you... You might get the answer you want then...


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## Napoleon (Feb 27, 2013)

Thanks for the info all. I am sticking with the 7.5 size. Again, the big question was, can something be done down the road IF (again, only if) they happen to pack out more than anticipated.


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## Napoleon (Feb 27, 2013)

Kevin137 said:


> Are we even having the same conversation in here...???
> 
> It seems that you are answering questions that are not answered and ignoring the ones that are...
> 
> Go to a shop and get a boot fitter to tell you... You might get the answer you want then...


I'm trying to keep up with everyone's comments! Sorry if we got side tracked. The question wasn't really whether I need 7 or 7.5... I'm pretty confident the 7 is too tight. The question was, if the 7.5 packs out more than anticipated a year or two from now, can something be done to take up that little extra space? I know people mention J-bars, but no clue if they actually help at that point.


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## Extremo (Nov 6, 2008)

Yep, Tognar.com has all kinds of boot fitting options to fill space. Plus there are diy tutorials all over the internet.


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

You're talkin about Ions.

I dont have them, but most (if not all) the people who have tried them have commented on the liner packing out very little. Different case from say... ThirtyTwo.


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## Argo (Feb 25, 2010)

F1EA said:


> You're talkin about Ions.
> 
> I dont have them, but most (if not all) the people who have tried them have commented on the liner packing out very little. Different case from say... ThirtyTwo.


Ion pack out maybe 1/4 size. Go with the best fit between the two as of now. They just won't pack out THAT much. If you start getting lift or a flopping forefoot then put in some fillers. I use 5mm neoprene cut to the right shapes in my boots.


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## IS3_FTW (Jan 21, 2013)

You say that 7s are perfect until you put in the insoles. So that raises your foot and being crushed from the top and not pushed in from the toe? Sounds like 7s your size, but with the insoles, go with 7.5"

If you start getting heal lift over time, wear another pair of socks.

I just bought 9s, which gives me heal lift. If i dont find another pair in 8.5", im just going to ride with 2 pairs of socks with the 9s


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## SGboarder (Jun 24, 2012)

Kevin137 said:


> But you still don't know if it is just the liners that are a different size or not...


According to Burton they have had 1:1 lasting for all boots for years...




F1EA said:


> You're talkin about Ions.
> 
> I dont have them, but most (if not all) the people who have tried them have commented on the liner packing out very little. Different case from say... ThirtyTwo.


Ions have a pair of Ion and they do pack out. I doubt there is a boot liner in existence that does not pack out - the Infinite Ride liners maybe a bit less than others, but they still do.


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## ridinbend (Aug 2, 2012)

SGboarder said:


> According to Burton they have had 1:1 lasting for all boots for years...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


This is pretty much a non issue if the op is riding less than 10-20 days a season. Yeah boots pack out, but to noticeably pack out a liner the rider is most likely riding 50+ days a season.


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## SGboarder (Jun 24, 2012)

ridinbend said:


> This is pretty much a non issue if the op is riding less than 10-20 days a season. Yeah boots pack out, but to noticeably pack out a liner the rider is most likely riding 50+ days a season.


Why? It will just take longer (in terms of time, not number of days), no? Anyway, it took less than 20 days for my Ions to start to pack out.


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## chomps1211 (Mar 30, 2011)

F1EA said:


> You're talkin about Ions.
> 
> I dont have them, but most (if not all) the people who have tried them have commented on the liner packing out very little. *Different case from say... ThirtyTwo.*


Can't comment on the Ion's, but my 32's packed out significantly very early my first half season. Although some of that early pack out was my own fault! I was a newb & lacing the Boa's _way_ too tight while riding. I also laced them very tight during and after having them heat molded! :facepalm1: 

Not to mention, putting them thru a helluva flexing workout learning to ride with my 10.5 sized boots on a wide assed board! :blink: :embarrased1:

That said,.. I followed BA's oft repeated advice about using C bars and such to help fix any heel lift trouble etc. after they packed out. Tognar.com is a fantastic resource for all kinds of various boot fitting items btw! The fix was fairly simple once I got some education on proper boot fit! Wore them for 3 full season's. I had well over 100 days on them before needing to buy new Remind liners for them! Shells will fall apart before those Reminds pack out! 

(_…Thanks again BA! My feet are forever in your debt!_) :cheer: :hairy:


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## Napoleon (Feb 27, 2013)

Thank you all for the input! Pretty much got the information I was looking for. I only get about 15 days a season (stupid job, can't take days off) so they do not get THAT beat up. My last 2 boots (a 32 and a K2) packed out a CRAZY amount, which on top of everything were already too big as a size 8. 

I can tell the IONs are built wayyyy better and probably won't pack out as much as my old boots. But good to know that if I need something down the road in a year or two, I can get it.


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