# Jones Carbon flagship setup



## Tatanka Head (Jan 13, 2014)

It depends on what you like. I prefer stiff boots, bindings and relatively stiff boards. I put my medium flex bindings on my board, and hated it. The response wasn't there for me. I also weigh 100kg, so flex in boots, bindings and board is different for me compared to someone weighing 80kg. So maybe 100kg in a stiff set up is similar to 80kg in mid-flex set-up. 

All in all, you need to feel your way through it and tune it to your preference.


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## Kuuno (Mar 31, 2016)

Okay,

My weight is around 80 - 85kg so maybe the setup could be doable.

Have you tried to ride with stiff board, medium stiff bindings and stiff boots setup? Heard some rumours that works well too? Of course some one can like and other hate it more than anything


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## Tatanka Head (Jan 13, 2014)

Yeah, my boots are Ride Insanos and the bindings I rode with were Union SLs (Mid-flex) and Union Factory (8/10 or 9/10 flex). 

Boards ridden with combo, Jones mnt twin, Hovercraft, and Krypto. Hovercraft and SLs, were horrible. Made me hate the board. Recently ridden with Factory and now I like it again. The SLs on the mnt twin were actually alright. The flex worked well together. SLs on the Krypto and it was fun, but I had to work harder. 

I haven't ridden my Factory bindings with the Jones mnt twin, but on the other two boards I really like them. Responsive. Snappy. I simply prefer that over the less responsive set up. 

I'd say, try it. I've never ridden the missions, so I can't comment. With that said, do you really wanna put missions on your carbon flagship? Hahah get some post season deals, you'll probably enjoy it more.


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## Kuuno (Mar 31, 2016)

Heh, true that.

Well, i have plenty of time to search the right setup for the next season  Anyhow i will go and try how mid flex's are working with carbon fs.

(And probably after start to look stiffer ones)


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## Tatanka Head (Jan 13, 2014)

Maybe Neni will chime in. Her SO rides a carb. flag, but not sure which bindings his set up has. If I recall correctly, he is about your weight. I want to say he rides with Malvitas or Cartels. She can clarify on that, and then hopefully that will help guide you in a more specific direction for your research.


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## joebloggs13 (Feb 28, 2013)

The carbon Flagship is a very stiff deck. If you are not going to update the boots I would def get stiffer bindings. Union, Now Drive or Burton Diodes would work well with that board.


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

NOW Drive first and due to the problems with their ratchets now Burton Diodes. Together with Burton Driver X boots. Seems like a good match 

But it's all about personal preference. We - I as well - like a stiff combination; got a responsive board, get responsive bindings n boots; but someone else may prefer differetly.

BTW: Tatanka, the Cartels were on the Custom X; weight is spot on; good memory.


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## joebloggs13 (Feb 28, 2013)

I ride an Arbor Steepwater, which is as stiff as the carbon Flagship and have Burton Diodes with Burton Ion boots. I also like a stiff setup with a stiff board.


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## Mig Fullbag (Apr 15, 2014)

I would go for the Now Drive and Burton Driver X combo. Then play with the bushing setup and flip-it ankle strap on the Drives to fine tune the response and feel you want.


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## Judokick (Dec 1, 2015)

stiff board plus stiff binders plus stiff boots = better be on your game all day, every day. if that's your thing cool, who are you racing?

personally I like medium ish binders (which 75% of all bindings are anyway) and medium ish flex boots on everything (stiff to soft boards). that seems to be the most comfort/least hassle combination.


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

Judokick said:


> stiff board plus stiff binders plus stiff boots = better be on your game all day, every day. if that's your thing cool, who are you racing?
> 
> personally I like medium ish binders (which 75% of all bindings are anyway) and medium ish flex boots on everything (stiff to soft boards). that seems to be the most comfort/least hassle combination.


Just to get a better idea... which boards you ride are you talking about when you say stiff?


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## Snow Hound (Jul 21, 2012)

I like my PYL much more with Diodes + Malamute (stiff) than I did with Cartels + Synapse (mid). The Carbon Flag is even stiffer so... But you won't know for sure till you try.

Sent from my ONE E1001 using Tapatalk


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## SGboarder (Jun 24, 2012)

joebloggs13 said:


> I ride an Arbor Steepwater, which is as stiff as the carbon Flagship


Nah, Carbon Flag is much stiffer. Steepwater is at best like the regular Flag, maybe not even that stiff.


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## KIRKRIDER (Mar 18, 2008)

Arbor A-Frame / Hovercraft with K2 CINCH -CTX and Burton Driver X

>>>


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## Kuuno (Mar 31, 2016)

Neni btw,

How much setback u guys have used with fs and carbon fs? 

I watched your videos from AK Heli trip and that was just really.. Wow


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

We both had reference stance. The board floats perfectly without any leaning on the back leg.

Meanwhile I ride a notch wider, hind insert shifted back.


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## joebloggs13 (Feb 28, 2013)

SGboarder said:


> Nah, Carbon Flag is much stiffer. Steepwater is at best like the regular Flag, maybe not even that stiff.


I have to disagree with you there. I know the wood top sheet Flag and my Steepwater is stiffer and has a much shallower sidecut---> means its a go straight and go fast, which becomes more responsive the steeper it gets. Never tried the carbon Flag, so can't comment on that.


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## multikill (Nov 26, 2015)

HotSnowball said:


> Not in my experience. I rode the Flagship and when upgrading also tried the Steepwater. Very similar flex but the Flagship was definitely slighter more stiff, except possibly in the nose.





joebloggs13 said:


> I have to disagree with you there. I know the wood top sheet Flag and my Steepwater is stiffer and has a much shallower sidecut---> means its a go straight and go fast, which becomes more responsive the steeper it gets. Never tried the carbon Flag, so can't comment on that.


Maybe you guys got different models of year.>


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## hikeswithdogs (Sep 23, 2011)

If you can afford it why the hell not, buying new snowboard gear is about my favorite thing in the world besides powder days.


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## Kuuno (Mar 31, 2016)

So little update,

Deck arrived today and it looks awesome, It's 164cm and my weight is around 85kg so it should be just fine eventhough Jones himself has said that smaller one would work better? 

We'll see.

Again, found good deal of Union T.rice bindings and DC T.rice boots (both 2016 and no, i'm not trying to collect Travis collection ) so those should be stiff enough to do the job 

I just cant wait for the next season's alp trips! Maybe i have to head to north while we have still lot of snow there in Finland.


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## Judokick (Dec 1, 2015)

neni said:


> Just to get a better idea... which boards you ride are you talking about when you say stiff?


I don't ride any boards that I would consider stiff anymore. Back in the day I rode Rome Designs and stiffer burtons. These days I think some Jones qualify as stiff, as well as the Burton toughcat, but not sure what else. anything with substantial carbon will be stiff.

back in the day board design relied on stiffness for stability and power, these days designs are more refined and subtle, boards don't need to be super stiff and you almost have to go way out of your way to find something really stiff, IMO


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## SGboarder (Jun 24, 2012)

multikill said:


> HotSnowball said:
> 
> 
> > Not in my experience. I rode the Flagship and when upgrading also tried the Steepwater. Very similar flex but the Flagship was definitely slighter more stiff, except possibly in the nose.
> ...


Snowball might be onto something: joebloggs is maybe confused because the rockered nose of Flag might feel softer - but contact point to contact point there is no question that the Flag is definitely stiffer (as it should be given the core, quadrax vs triax glass, etc.).


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## joebloggs13 (Feb 28, 2013)

SGboarder said:


> Snowball might be onto something: joebloggs is maybe confused because the rockered nose of Flag might feel softer - but contact point to contact point there is no question that the Flag is definitely stiffer (as it should be given the core, quadrax vs triax glass, etc.).


Both the wood topsheet Flag and the Steepwater are rated an 8 on their flex. I am riding a 2016 Steepwater, and it is at least as stiff as the flag. I have tried both as well.


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## WasabiCanuck (Apr 29, 2015)

So the flagship is more for off-piste? I'm debating between the regular Flagship, Mnt Twin, or Ultra Mnt Twin. I ride mainly groomers and like to play around with switch and a bit of buttering, but I like to go fast too especial when riding with skiers. My old board is so squirrelly at higher speeds.


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## joebloggs13 (Feb 28, 2013)

WasabiCanuck said:


> So the flagship is more for off-piste? I'm debating between the regular Flagship, Mnt Twin, or Ultra Mnt Twin. I ride mainly groomers and like to play around with switch and a bit of buttering, but I like to go fast too especial when riding with skiers. My old board is so squirrelly at higher speeds.


The Flagship is a directional board. If you want hard charging twins that work well in different conditions there are other options.

Jones Flagship 2016-2011 Snowboard Review


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## joebloggs13 (Feb 28, 2013)

The wood Flagship and the Steepwater are both rated an 8/10 on the flex, whereas the carbon Flag is rated as a 10/10. So comparing the wood top sheet flag to the Steepwater, the Arbor has a shallower sidecut and full wrap sidewall, which adds to the response. The wood Flag has a different camber profile, harder steel edges and more rocker, which gives it a unique feel. Take it all for what you will. I will take the Carbon Flag over all, but when it comes to choosing between the wood Flag and the Steepwater, I go Steepwater any day.


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## eugenei (Sep 8, 2016)

joebloggs13 said:


> The wood Flagship and the Steepwater are both rated an 8/10 on the flex, whereas the carbon Flag is rated as a 10/10. So comparing the wood top sheet flag to the Steepwater, the Arbor has a shallower sidecut and full wrap sidewall, which adds to the response. The wood Flag has a different camber profile, harder steel edges and more rocker, which gives it a unique feel. Take it all for what you will. I will take the Carbon Flag over all, but when it comes to choosing between the wood Flag and the Steepwater, I go Steepwater any day.



Hey Joe,
Since you have tried the Steepwater and Carbon Flagship could you please give me an advice on them? I have purchased 3 boards and have hard time picking which one to keep and which to return. I have Carbon Flagship 161, Arbor Steepwater 162 and Arbor A-Frame. I had never ridden any of them. Could you put in your 5 cents in regards to your experience with them? I'm advance/expert from East Cost, I'm just looking for a stiff/fast board that I can carve and hit 60 + mph on. My previous boards that i had were Burton BMC, Burton T6 and Burton T7 so I'm looking for something that is similar to that.


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## joebloggs13 (Feb 28, 2013)

eugenei said:


> Hey Joe,
> Since you have tried the Steepwater and Carbon Flagship could you please give me an advice on them? I have purchased 3 boards and have hard time picking which one to keep and which to return. I have Carbon Flagship 161, Arbor Steepwater 162 and Arbor A-Frame. I had never ridden any of them. Could you put in your 5 cents in regards to your experience with them? I'm advance/expert from East Cost, I'm just looking for a stiff/fast board that I can carve and hit 60 + mph on. My previous boards that i had were Burton BMC, Burton T6 and Burton T7 so I'm looking for something that is similar to that.


Hi eugenie, of the three boards you mentioned, and for the conditions you will be riding...ie east coast groomers, the A-Frame would be the one I most suited for that. The A-Frame is a euro carve beast. The Carbon Flag and the Steepwater are similar to each other and are for specific terrain. On groomers they are more of a straight-line bomb, and the faster you go the more responsive they become. They are big mountain weapons pure and simple. They will give similar rides, but arrive at that through different tech. 

The Carbon flag is a very stiff hybrid camber with a big powder nose, mellow mag for grip. The Steepwater is more old school, stiff, traditional camber between contact points(a lot of it), has a big nose, big setback and almost no sidecut depth, meaning the sidecut radius is much larger than your average board(and more than the Flag and A-Frame), and because of that large radius the arc of your turns will be much greater than the A-Frame, and can only be achieved at speed. The Carbon flag is different in that the sidecut depth is more pronounced(or a shallower radius if you would), but because it is so stiff(10/10 vs 8/10 on the Steepwater) it also needs speed or you will just skid your turns, and skidding on a board that stiff would be nasty.

The A-Frame is a true carver, maybe not as fast as the Carbon Flag and the Steepwater, it it can really bomb. To achieve what you want on the Steepwater or Carbon Flag, you would have to be riding some serious vertical. You haven't mentioned the wood Flag, and that might also work for you, as it has a shallower sidecut radius than the Steepwater with the same flex rating...8/10.

If it were me, the carbon Flag is almost like a unicorn out there, and should be kept purely as a big mountain weapon, because in my mind, as they say in the Spinal Tap....this one goes to eleven!!! The Steepwater is also somewhat of a unicorn, looks fantastic with the burled eucalyptus top sheet, and is also more of a big mountain slayer. Ultimately the decision is yours. I have to say though, to have those three boards in my living room would be some serious eye candy!!!:tongue4:


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## eugenei (Sep 8, 2016)

joebloggs13 said:


> Hi eugenie, of the three boards you mentioned, and for the conditions you will be riding...ie east coast groomers, the A-Frame would be the one I most suited for that. The A-Frame is a euro carve beast. The Carbon Flag and the Steepwater are similar to each other and are for specific terrain. On groomers they are more of a straight-line bomb, and the faster you go the more responsive they become. They are big mountain weapons pure and simple. They will give similar rides, but arrive at that through different tech.
> 
> The Carbon flag is a very stiff hybrid camber with a big powder nose, mellow mag for grip. The Steepwater is more old school, stiff, traditional camber between contact points(a lot of it), has a big nose, big setback and almost no sidecut depth, meaning the sidecut radius is much larger than your average board(and more than the Flag and A-Frame), and because of that large radius the arc of your turns will be much greater than the A-Frame, and can only be achieved at speed. The Carbon flag is different in that the sidecut depth is more pronounced(or a shallower radius if you would), but because it is so stiff(10/10 vs 8/10 on the Steepwater) it also needs speed or you will just skid your turns, and skidding on a board that stiff would be nasty.
> 
> ...


Joe, do you think the A-Frame and the Steepwater are different enough to keep em both? what i mean, maybe I can use A-Frame for carving and Steepwater for bombing? =) or there just too similar?


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

eugenei said:


> I'm advance/expert from East Cost, I'm just looking for a stiff/fast board that I can carve and hit 60 + mph on.


The Carbon Flag would surely fit that bill. 

Hubby uses that board as his on quiver go to board for 4y now; in resort, riding fast and carving hard is all he does. Nice thing about it is that it'll bomb bad icy days as well as it'll ride deep n steep. 

(Only thing he doesn't like it too much is in moguls; but... even though he'd have more mellow boards - like Raptor or Custom X - to back-up on days with lousy groomer conditions? He still _always_ grabs the Carbon to ride.)


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## Elektropow (Mar 6, 2014)

neni said:


> The Carbon Flag would surely fit that bill.
> 
> Hubby uses that board as his on quiver go to board for 4y now; in resort, riding fast and carving hard is all he does. Nice thing about it is that it'll bomb bad icy days as well as it'll ride deep n steep.
> 
> (Only thing he doesn't like it too much is in moguls; but... even though he'd have more mellow boards - like Raptor or Custom X - to back-up on days with lousy groomer conditions? He still _always_ grabs the Carbon to ride.)


What does he think about throwing that tail around in super steep terrain or if you get to hit some trees? I have the Burton FA now and like the measurements. Even though the tail is stiff, it's a bit shorter which allows me to quite easily go from heelside to toeside in sticky situations. I guess the Carbon FS is a bit more work, but doable if you know what you're doing? I got to test ride the regular flagship, but not through steeps down chutes. Definitely likes speed and comes alive when you're charging, but you might hit those rock areas you have to navigate through steeps in shitty snow, so can appreaciate a bit of nimbleness as well.


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

Elektropow said:


> What does he think about throwing that tail around in super steep terrain or if you get to hit some trees? I have the Burton FA now and like the measurements. Even though the tail is stiff, it's a bit shorter which allows me to quite easily go from heelside to toeside in sticky situations. I guess the Carbon FS is a bit more work, but doable if you know what you're doing? I got to test ride the regular flagship, but not through steeps down chutes. Definitely likes speed and comes alive when you're charging, but you might hit those rock areas you have to navigate through steeps in shitty snow, so can appreaciate a bit of nimbleness as well.



Quick turns in steep are no problem at all. Also slowmo billy goating is easy, tail is quite short n thrown around easily, even I can do that easily on my oversized Flags. It's more the slow flat deep between trees sort of terrain I had most work to get the turns out. He never mentioned a problem there. Only terrain he ever mentioned to be some work are moguls. He's not too fond to hit Zermatt Rothorn run when it's all moguled


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## Elektropow (Mar 6, 2014)

neni said:


> Quick turns in steep are no problem at all. Also slowmo billy goating is easy, tail is quite short n thrown around easily, even I can do that easily on my oversized Flags. It's more the slow flat deep between trees sort of terrain I had most work to get the turns out. He never mentioned a problem there. Only terrain he ever mentioned to be some work are moguls. He's not too fond to hit Zermatt Rothorn run when it's all moguled


Hah, yeah can imagine quick turns to avoid throwing yourself unwantedly in the air to be some work. Also, those flat deep pow sections are always a bitch and it's all about keeping your speed. If you have to throw the board around more sort of unnaturally it slows you down. Short tail deep sidecut pow sticks excel here though. 

But yeah, good to know! If my FA becomes damaged goods early on in the season, I might go for either one of the flagships as my freeride stick. Magne doesn't hurt either on some traverses and billy goating. Contemplating on the Hovercraft as well, as it's more of a freeride oriented pow floater, but I'm confident down steeps with the Derby 147 even, just not flatbasing at 100kmh, so FS's looking more on point as of now.


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

Elektropow said:


> But yeah, good to know! If my FA becomes damaged goods early on in the season, I might go for either one of the flagships as my freeride stick. Magne doesn't hurt either on some traverses and billy goating. Contemplating on the Hovercraft as well, as it's more of a freeride oriented pow floater, but I'm confident down steeps with the Derby 147 even, just not flatbasing at 100kmh, so FS's looking more on point as of now.


The mellow magne of the Flag IMO is _just_ the perfect mix. Not too much to break too much in soft groomers; but enough to give great edge hold. Been in very steep icy sections and not once was concerned that the edge wouldn't hold. Very confidence inspiring.

Hmmm... Hovy... ppl seem to like it. I don't. It may be nice in pow, but on groomers it's so much inferior what a Flag offers. I'm a one quiver person. And for what I like to ride, the Flag is just the perfect board. Sure, bit of a deawback in flat trees or moguls, but that's something I rarely ride and thus not what I optimize a board for. For high alpine BC, steep n deep AND for groomer days where carving n riding fast is the topic, I haven't found a deck whick offers as much reliability AND float. 

Lol, I'm not in the three digit range of speed, 85 is where my comfort zone ends, but I know from the SO that it's not the slightest problem on a Flag. Another nice thing with it is the relatively soft nose. If you happen to hit a little bump at those speeds with a stiff nose? No good. The softish nose of the Flag will float over that bumb. Sure, you'll then have to absorb the impact of the bump once it comes to the stiff section under your feet, but as you ride low anyway, you can absorb it.


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## Elektropow (Mar 6, 2014)

neni said:


> The mellow magne of the Flag IMO is _just_ the perfect mix. Not too much to break too much in soft groomers; but enough to give great edge hold. Been in very steep icy sections and not once was concerned that the edge wouldn't hold. Very confidence inspiring.
> 
> Hmmm... Hovy... ppl seem to like it. I don't. It may be nice in pow, but on groomers it's so much inferior what a Flag offers. I'm a one quiver person. And for what I like to ride, the Flag is just the perfect board. Sure, bit of a deawback in flat trees or moguls, but that's something I rarely ride and thus not what I optimize a board for. For high alpine BC, steep n deep AND for groomer days where carving n riding fast is the topic, I haven't found a deck whick offers as much reliability AND float.
> 
> Lol, I'm not in the three digit range of speed, 85 is where my comfort zone ends, but I know from the SO that it's not the slightest problem on a Flag. Another nice thing with it is the relatively soft nose. If you happen to hit a little bump at those speeds with a stiff nose? No good. The softish nose of the Flag will float over that bumb. Sure, you'll then have to absorb the impact of the bump once it comes to the stiff section under your feet, but as you ride low anyway, you can absorb it.


Yup, sounds awesome!

Normally I'd be more into a deeper sidecut, but since I do all sorts of riding and the Flag is at the very other end of the spectrum, it wouldn't be for versatility anyhow, so I'd just bomb on it when it's tied to my feet and have another board when conditions don't allow freeriding and getting to those spots or I'm just up for some fooling around.

To be honest, I think the Hovy would be just fine on groomers. I know some people who do great on it, even race with it or go down steep chutes. For me it's the tail. I like a tail for ollies and stuff and the Hovy requires more boost from the terrain plus I alraedy have the Derby, which isn't really the same but works great in trees and crappy conditions. Maybe purely for a Japan trip, heh.


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