# Last year Cartel produced with traditional discs?



## NevaSummaLuva (Apr 1, 2011)

Anyone know the last year the Cartel was available with traditional discs? I have the same toe/heel centering problem that Dreampow has with my large Cartel Reflexes.


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## dreampow (Sep 26, 2011)

Negative. No regular disks, they won't fit.

I contacted burton directly and they said the only fix was to get mediums.

I did. They work.

If the bindings are still new they will probably help you out, if not look to trade or sell.

One other solution is to drill holes yourself, someone on EL did it and the bindings were still fine 1 year later. 

I wouldn't recommend it myself though.


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## NevaSummaLuva (Apr 1, 2011)

Yea I know they won't fit. I was just asking the last year the Cartel was available to purchase with traditional discs. I believe it was 2011 but I'm not sure. I'm looking to pickup a set with traditional discs.

I spoke with burton and they told me not to got with the mediums and large straps because I have size 11 boots without reduced footprint (K2 Maysis double boa).


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## djsaad1 (Nov 7, 2008)

NevaSummaLuva said:


> Yea I know they won't fit. I was just asking the last year the Cartel was available to purchase with traditional discs. I believe it was 2011 but I'm not sure. I'm looking to pickup a set with traditional discs.
> 
> I spoke with burton and they told me not to got with the mediums and large straps because I have size 11 boots without reduced footprint (K2 Maysis double boa).


I had last years cartels in blue with regular disks they were mediums, so yes they were available with regular disks.


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## cav0011 (Jan 4, 2009)

djsaad1 said:


> I had last years cartels in blue with regular disks they were mediums, so yes they were available with regular disks.


Pics or it didnt happen.


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## djsaad1 (Nov 7, 2008)

djsaad1 said:


> I had last years cartels in blue with regular disks they were mediums, so yes they were available with regular disks.


Board and bindings are sold but here is the thread with the pictures. 

http://www.snowboardingforum.com/bu...pment/97377-2013-arbor-coda-2013-cartels.html


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## dreampow (Sep 26, 2011)

djsaad1 said:


> I had last years cartels in blue with regular disks they were mediums, so yes they were available with regular disks.


If thats true its contary to what burton bindings told me, but that is entirely possible.

My 2011s have the adjustment I need with regular disks so I know they will work.

Sorry for the misread.


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## djsaad1 (Nov 7, 2008)

Maybe I am confusing what regular discs are.

Are we not just talking about non est discs?


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## dreampow (Sep 26, 2011)

djsaad1 said:


> Board and bindings are sold but here is the thread with the pictures.
> 
> http://www.snowboardingforum.com/bu...pment/97377-2013-arbor-coda-2013-cartels.html


We are talking about non relfex disks as regular disks, not disks with 4 holes.

That is probably the source of confusion here.


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## djsaad1 (Nov 7, 2008)

dreampow said:


> We are talking about non relfex disks as regular disks, not disks with 4 holes.
> 
> That is probably the source of confusion here.


Sorry about that


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## cav0011 (Jan 4, 2009)

djsaad1 said:


> Maybe I am confusing what regular discs are.
> 
> Are we not just talking about non est discs?


Yeah you are confused. In 2011 (might be 2010) burton had a late season release of cartels with a re:flex disc. The next season all cartels were on re:flex. The year after that most of the line went re:flex (i think)


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## NevaSummaLuva (Apr 1, 2011)

djsaad1 said:


> I had last years cartels in blue with regular disks they were mediums, so yes they were available with regular disks.


I have those blue collar cartels also at the moment. They are 2013 and mine are re:flex


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## NevaSummaLuva (Apr 1, 2011)

I just bought these on eBay. Although it shows the standard discs I need, I feel they are a reflex binding unfortunately. I also can't find anything on this colorway anywhere. What do you guys think?


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## cav0011 (Jan 4, 2009)

They look like last seasons. The yellow on the back is from the mustard colorway. The rest are presumably the black colorway. No idea if that is the original baseplate or if they are frankenstiend (not sure if re:flex highbacks are compatible with their standard baseplate, I know EST and reflex highbacks are not compatible though.)


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## dreampow (Sep 26, 2011)

Mix and match bindings, probably the disks won't work with the base plate, can't be sure though. I wouldn't bother with them.

You should trade, you have nice bindings, someone would trade for another company similar size like rome or K2 or flow.


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## NevaSummaLuva (Apr 1, 2011)

The graphics on the baseplate and footbed look like my 13's. here is the only other picture I have from eBay. I don't remember if the baseplate came in traditional disc that year. Otherwise, I don't know how you would even Frankenstein a reflex baseplate to fit traditional discs. Seems impossible.


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## NevaSummaLuva (Apr 1, 2011)

dreampow said:


> Mix and match bindings, probably the disks won't work with the base plate, can't be sure though. I wouldn't bother with them.
> 
> You should trade, you have nice bindings, someone would trade for another company similar size like rome or K2 or flow.


Wanna sell or trade your 2011's!


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## scottb7 (Nov 19, 2012)

I had emailed burton to see what they thought about my size 11's, and then i could not wait so i called. talked to guy on phone that said definitely get the large. 3 days later different guy on email said get the medium.

I got the forum republic instead. It has adjustable heel cup, and still has the hinge disc. From what other on this forum said burton will support. Indeed many of the fittings look the same as burton stuff.

FORUM Snowboards | We Live Forum


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## NevaSummaLuva (Apr 1, 2011)

scottb7 said:


> I had emailed burton to see what they thought about my size 11's, and then i could not wait so i called. talked to guy on phone that said definitely get the large. 3 days later different guy on email said get the medium.
> 
> I got the forum republic instead. It has adjustable heel cup, and still has the hinge disc. From what other on this forum said burton will support. Indeed many of the fittings look the same as burton stuff.
> 
> FORUM Snowboards | We Live Forum


Thanks for telling me about these. I will definatley research them. I was looking at the Union Factory, however, I am hesitant because of the toe strap and buckle.


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## scottb7 (Nov 19, 2012)

None of the union stuff has hinge disc does it? Burton bought forum i think a few years back. So I think this is last year forum will be around. But I think burton will support for quite a while. 

Take a look at my thread, and do some research on the forum stuff.

http://www.snowboardingforum.com/bindings/113921-heel-hammock-bs-not-tough-binding.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forum_Snowboarding


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## atr3yu (Feb 15, 2012)

Just to be clear we are talking about the 2013/14 Cartels with the reflex disk not centring on the board? I have a size 9 Ride RFL boot and medium Cartel's and cannot get a good centre on my T.Rice HP so I slapped them on my Charlie hoping it will less of a difference on my pow deck. I thought it was just me or the combination of equipment.


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## dreampow (Sep 26, 2011)

NevaSummaLuva said:


> Wanna sell or trade your 2011's!


Not for Large 2013s! Maybe for some K2 company:dunno:.

I really like the 2011s not just the sizing the stiffer bigger highbacks are just better for freeride.

They have lasted well and are still getting lots of use.


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## dreampow (Sep 26, 2011)

atr3yu said:


> Just to be clear we are talking about the 2013/14 Cartels with the reflex disk not centring on the board? I have a size 9 Ride RFL boot and medium Cartel's and cannot get a good centre on my T.Rice HP so I slapped them on my Charlie hoping it will less of a difference on my pow deck. I thought it was just me or the combination of equipment.


This is about 12/13 reflex cartels but any reflex bindings from burton have limited adjustability. You may have problems on the large or small ends of the binding size depending on the board.

Rome also have more adjustability along with a number of other brands, I like the feel of burtons though.


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## Beeb (Mar 13, 2012)

This thread has me a bit worried now, I was planning on chucking some large Cartels or Genesis on a YES - Pick Your Line 161.


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## dreampow (Sep 26, 2011)

Solution, go to the shop and try both mediums and large, make sure you can center you boots on the board before you buy. 

The vast majority of boots will fit fine on one or the other, very few will fall inbetween and cause issues.


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## atr3yu (Feb 15, 2012)

Well i have like 3 days on mine already so i think taking them back is not going to happen. Looks like I will just sell them or trade them..... >_<

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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

The problem is mostly with the Reflex discs, because they only have 3 adjustment holes (as opposed to 4 on the regular discs). This does not happen on the EST because they offer a lot more range to adjust.

Ussually, when your boot falls inbetween sizes you can find it hard to center in the board (too much heelside if your boot's too small for the binding, toeside if it's too big).

I actually have regular Burton discs that i could try for fit on Reflex Missions, but i havent tried them (lazy) to check if they fit the reflex bindings. Didnt need to try because my sz 11 TM2's are ok for me on L bindings; but I think the discs fit, because they are awfully similar... they'd just lose re:flex-ness.


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

atr3yu said:


> Well i have like 3 days on mine already so i think taking them back is not going to happen. Looks like I will just sell them or trade them..... >_<
> 
> Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


If you purchased at a shop, try to take them back if they dont fit. Or at least take them in with your boots and board and see if you can get some compromise from the shop. If your boots are within the size range you may have an argument and Burton is very good with customer support. Worth a try....


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## atr3yu (Feb 15, 2012)

F1EA said:


> If you purchased at a shop, try to take them back if they dont fit. Or at least take them in with your boots and board and see if you can get some compromise from the shop. If your boots are within the size range you may have an argument and Burton is very good with customer support. Worth a try....


You are right I might as well try. From your other post it would seem i need a smaller size binding though I would be surprised if my boot fit in the size small.

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## djsaad1 (Nov 7, 2008)

I am sorry to be dense, but can someone explain to me the problem with reflex.

I am looking at buying another pair of cartels for a riders choice and don't want to mess up.

What changed on the reflex disc that makes it harder to center the boot compared to another manufactures standard 4 hole disc?


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## atr3yu (Feb 15, 2012)

djsaad1 said:


> I am sorry to be dense, but can someone explain to me the problem with reflex.
> 
> I am looking at buying another pair of cartels for a riders choice and don't want to mess up.
> 
> What changed on the reflex disc that makes it harder to center the boot compared to another manufactures standard 4 hole disc?


For starters there are only three holes instead of four in the disk. For me in a size nine ride rfl boot and medium cartels I have the binding as far toe side as possible and am still quite heal heavy. To solve my issue it would seem I should try the size small cartels. Seems to be a combination of board, binding size and boot size. Also appears from this thread asking burton will get you mixed answers.


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

djsaad1 said:


> I am sorry to be dense, but can someone explain to me the problem with reflex.
> 
> I am looking at buying another pair of cartels for a riders choice and don't want to mess up.
> 
> What changed on the reflex disc that makes it harder to center the boot compared to another manufactures standard 4 hole disc?


Read post #27.

Basically, what changed is 3 holes on the reflex vs 4 holes on the standard ones. Sometimes that extra hole is all you'd need to make them fit or not. Also, boots have changed in terms of footprint... so a size 12 boot of today has a very different footprint accross brands and compared to older boots.

The problem is only if your boot size falls in the middle of the sizing chart. For example, size L bindings are listed for US 11+, and M up to US 10.5. So if your boot size is 10, 10.5 or 11 i think you should check for fit at the shop or make sure your shop would take them back for trade if they dont fit.

When i bought mine, the guys were super nice and even held a size M binding for me in case the L didnt fit.

I had no idea about the problem because i used to have standard discs, but when i tried the new ones i realized where the problem would be, because my boot was just barely ok, where i could center the same boots with room to spare with the older bindings... did a search, and sure enough, it happens to some people.


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## NevaSummaLuva (Apr 1, 2011)

F1EA said:


> The problem is mostly with the Reflex discs, because they only have 3 adjustment holes (as opposed to 4 on the regular discs). This does not happen on the EST because they offer a lot more range to adjust.
> 
> Ussually, when your boot falls inbetween sizes you can find it hard to center in the board (too much heelside if your boot's too small for the binding, toeside if it's too big).
> 
> I actually have regular Burton discs that i could try for fit on Reflex Missions, but i havent tried them (lazy) to check if they fit the reflex bindings. Didnt need to try because my sz 11 TM2's are ok for me on L bindings; but I think the discs fit, because they are awfully similar... they'd just lose re:flex-ness.


They will not fit. The discs are not interchangeable


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## atr3yu (Feb 15, 2012)

Ok, so I just phoned Burton and spoke to Julie, who picked up on the first ring.... what company pick-ups up on the first ring?? :dunno: Any ways I needed disks for my sons 2010 grom bindings which I got for free. No problem, they have them and are sending them for free. I asked about my Cartels so she puts me on hold, talks to her peeps and then comes back and says we have had other people mention this so lets send you some standard disks for free as well. I asked her are you sure they will fit and she said yes they will, so here's to hoping. I will also say she was without a doubt the coolest customer service rep I have ever talked to. She is also going to hook me up with some free stickers. So if you have an issue, I say just call the big bad B, they aren't so bad after all!


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## scottb7 (Nov 19, 2012)

What does "standard discs" mean"? So they will not be "reflex" discs? If so why would anyone want to give up the flex?


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## atr3yu (Feb 15, 2012)

scottb7 said:


> What does "standard discs" mean"? So they will not be "reflex" discs? If so why would anyone want to give up the flex?


Yes, "Standard" four hole disks, no reflex cut outs, etc. Just old skool normal disks, or at least that is what I was told. SHipping is 7-10 days and she said I will most likely be the 10 days given where I am located. Maybe she was wrong, maybe not. I am hoping for the best as I would like to keep the bindings. If these disks don't work out I will just try to trade for something else. I have been quite interested in trying some Unions and this year seems to be a better year for them. The Factory and Contact Pro both look interesting to me.


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

scottb7 said:


> What does "standard discs" mean"? So they will not be "reflex" discs? If so why would anyone want to give up the flex?


Left is Reflex, right is Standard:









This is a comparison between the 3D discs. It's actually 5 holes vs 3 holes, so the adjustability is significant. I have the 2x4's mounted, but the difference is totally comparable between 3D and 2x4.

Basically, fit-wise they are identical. The difference is the cutouts which allow for flex.

People may give up the reflex if it means they can center their boots using standard discs.


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

atr3yu said:


> Ok, so I just phoned Burton and spoke to Julie, who picked up on the first ring.... what company pick-ups up on the first ring?? :dunno: Any ways I needed disks for my sons 2010 grom bindings which I got for free. No problem, they have them and are sending them for free. I asked about my Cartels so she puts me on hold, talks to her peeps and then comes back and says we have had other people mention this so lets send you some standard disks for free as well. I asked her are you sure they will fit and she said yes they will, so here's to hoping. I will also say she was without a doubt the coolest customer service rep I have ever talked to. She is also going to hook me up with some free stickers. So if you have an issue, I say just call the big bad B, they aren't so bad after all!


Cool! :thumbsup:


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## NevaSummaLuva (Apr 1, 2011)

F1EA said:


> Cool! :thumbsup:


Standard non-reflex discs WILL NOT fit in a re:flex baseplate. Tried that months ago.


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## NevaSummaLuva (Apr 1, 2011)

If you notice on the re:flex disc the teeth are on the sides of the reflex disc. On the standard disc the teeth are on the bottom of the disc. Trust me I've tried, they are not interchangeable. It was the first thing I tried when I discovered my boot wasn't centered.


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## atr3yu (Feb 15, 2012)

NevaSummaLuva said:


> Standard non-reflex discs WILL NOT fit in a re:flex baseplate. Tried that months ago.


Well, I hope she knew what she was talking about and I am getting something that will fit. I will remain optimistic despite the obvious evidence to the contrary.


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

NevaSummaLuva said:


> Standard non-reflex discs WILL NOT fit in a re:flex baseplate. Tried that months ago.


Yeah, the grooves are a little different... 
If you tried, i guess they don't fit. I really havent tried them, just looked at the discs side by side.... but if Burton say they fit, then maybe they do, or at least they have SOME discs which do.


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## NevaSummaLuva (Apr 1, 2011)

atr3yu said:


> Well, I hope she knew what she was talking about and I am getting something that will fit. I will remain optimistic despite the obvious evidence to the contrary.


She is probably going to send you the reflex binding with The holes for tip to tail adjustment. But let me know what she sends. I'm still curious


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## dreampow (Sep 26, 2011)

Burton were very helpful for me too, still this is a big problem and I think they need to make it clear that there is now less adjust ability and that people really need to try on before they buy, the size chart on the website is no good, it said I can rock an L but I could not. 


I like the reflex system a lot, but I don't ride Est and I don't want to. I don't want to be restricted to a burton board.

Ultimately they need to work a solution that brings more adjust ability or loose customers.

Just in this 1 thread there are 3 or 4 people with this issue and we are all considering different bindings for next time around.


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

dreampow said:


> Burton were very helpful for me too, still this is a big problem and I think they need to make it clear that there is now less adjust ability and that people really need to try on before they buy, the size chart on the website is no good, it said I can rock an L but I could not.
> 
> 
> I like the reflex system a lot, but I don't ride Est and I don't want to. I don't want to be restricted to a burton board.
> ...


Oh yea, it is definitely an issue. But, so far Burton has given top customer service, so at least people feel taken care of, which is not bad at all.

The lack of adjustability is a downside for simplicity. On the EST it's actually TOO MUCH adjustability, while still being simple... so it is a pretty well designed system. I dont use it, but i have to say it's pretty good.

Most of the (repeat) customers will either know which binding size to get, or at least make arrangements with the shop when they buy it... the rest, well maybe the shops/sites whatever gives better sizing information in the future. 

Anyways, it's ok to try different bindings. But i think Burton is doing the best they can, really, it does not seem like they are cutting corners or giving consumers the short stick. On the other hand, their trying to offer people without their "system" more or less equal features.

Who knows, maybe next yr they make their bindings a bit smaller, to reflect the smaller footprints; modify the base discs, correct their size range or go by footprint measure instead of nominal size, whatever.... Or they could just make erryone buy burton boots, bindings and boards :icon_scratch:


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## OU812 (Feb 2, 2013)

I have large 2013 Cartels with Deeluxe ID 10.5 boots and I'm centered just fine. I used the bottom holes on the Re:Flex disc. I feel like I got lucky because seeing whats happened to others if it would of been off I'd be screwed as there's very little adjustability. Not sure how it would work out if I get different boots. I might be better off in 11's, will see. I'm getting some toe pain in both boots walking around in them but while riding its fine for now, guess thats where it counts.
They're great bindings however.


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## atr3yu (Feb 15, 2012)

OU812 said:


> I have large 2013 Cartels with Deeluxe ID 10.5 boots and I'm centered just fine. I used the bottom holes on the Re:Flex disc. I feel like I got lucky because seeing whats happened to others if it would of been off I'd be screwed as there's very little adjustability. Not sure how it would work out if I get different boots. I might be better off in 11's, will see. I'm getting some toe pain in both boots walking around in them but while riding its fine for now, guess thats where it counts.
> They're great bindings however.


Well the funny thing is according to burtons website you could be in a medium binding. The fact that you are centred in a large with 10.5 boots surprises me, but I am glad it worked out for me. I imagine if i was wearing 10.5s in the medium binding I would be good to go.

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## OU812 (Feb 2, 2013)

I dunno man, they look centered to me :dunno:
I was first thinking about buying Union bindings and when I emailed them asking which size with those size boots they told me L/XL. Its too bad it hasn't worked out for you, I'd get the mediums and stick with Cartels. The straps and rackets are so much nicer on the Burton's I think.


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## scotty100 (Apr 3, 2012)

F1EA said:


> Oh yea, it is definitely an issue. But, so far Burton has given top customer service, so at least people feel taken care of, which is not bad at all.
> 
> The lack of adjustability is a downside for simplicity. On the EST it's actually TOO MUCH adjustability, while still being simple... so it is a pretty well designed system. I dont use it, but i have to say it's pretty good.
> 
> ...


I'm definitely a proponent of matching the same company's boot to binding, makes things so much easier and with Burton their boots and bindings are as good and probably better than most anyway so win-win keeping it all in the burton family.

But I think all they have to do is just begin to offer a slightly tweaked std disk along with the reflex disk with every pair of reflex bindings. Problem then solved if your particular board width / boot size are causing some centering issues.

The problem is exacerbated if the wrong size board and bindings are bought to begin with...so:

1. don't buy a wide board if you don't need it 
2. any boot under a size 11 go with a medium. 
3. boot size 11 and over - go with a large. 
4. boot size 11 with shrinkage tech...you _might_ get away with a medium burton binding. In that case, try before you buy...


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## bseracka (Nov 14, 2011)

OU812 said:


> I dunno man, they look centered to me :dunno:
> I was first thinking about buying Union bindings and when I emailed them asking which size with those size boots they told me L/XL. Its too bad it hasn't worked out for you, I'd get the mediums and stick with Cartels. The straps and rackets are so much nicer on the Burton's I think.


Looks centered to me.


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## NevaSummaLuva (Apr 1, 2011)

OU812 said:


> I dunno man, they look centered to me :dunno:
> I was first thinking about buying Union bindings and when I emailed them asking which size with those size boots they told me L/XL. Its too bad it hasn't worked out for you, I'd get the mediums and stick with Cartels. The straps and rackets are so much nicer on the Burton's I think.


Yes. Just look at dreampows thread. The mediums DO work. Our concern is with the L Cartel Re:flex


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

NevaSummaLuva said:


> Yes. Just look at dreampows thread. The mediums DO work. Our concern is with the L Cartel Re:flex


He has L/XL, and the boots look perfectly centered. Must be those boots have large footprint... it's VERY difficult to standarize due to all the different footprint reduction out there......... So, for him, the L works. For me at size 11 TM2s, the L bindings work too...


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## OU812 (Feb 2, 2013)

Yea, those are size Large Cartels with 10.5 boots. The board is a 161 SL. 25.5 waist.


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## NevaSummaLuva (Apr 1, 2011)

Ah. I have a 158 sl with a 25.3 ww


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## dreampow (Sep 26, 2011)

scotty100 said:


> But I think all they have to do is just begin to offer a slightly tweaked std disk along with the reflex disk with every pair of reflex bindings. Problem then solved if your particular board width / boot size are causing some centering issues.
> 
> 
> 3. boot size 11 and over - go with a large.
> .


I agree they can solve the problem with an extra disk for people who don't fit in the range. Good idea:thumbsup:.

I have both Burton boots and bindings cause I like them. I have size 11s with shrinkage tech. My 2011 cartels fit just fine so I assumed my 2013 Large cartels would work with the same boots and board. 

Nope, I had to exchange for mediums, so your point number 3 is not quite right. I can only wear meduims with my boots and I have a regular board, not a wide.

I would say 10 and 11 size boots you will need to try on in the shop before buying, one or the other will work but make sure you get it centered.


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## scotty100 (Apr 3, 2012)

dreampow said:


> I agree they can solve the problem with an extra disk for people who don't fit in the range. Good idea:thumbsup:.
> 
> I have both Burton boots and bindings cause I like them. I have size 11s with shrinkage tech. My 2011 cartels fit just fine so I assumed my 2013 Large cartels would work with the same boots and board.
> 
> ...


Yup, agreed :thumbsup:...I think my point #4 covered that (assuming your burton boot has shrinkage tech and in the context of reflex...i.e. 2012 onwards):



scotty100 said:


> The problem is exacerbated if the wrong size board and bindings are bought to begin with...so:
> 
> 1. don't buy a wide board if you don't need it
> 2. any boot under a size 11 go with a medium.
> ...


I wear a size 10 burton boot with both a medium malavita (reflex) and medium cartel (est). No problem centering on reg width boards (25.3 160 Yes great beauties and 25.5 161 burton barracuda). Also have worn a 10.5 32 lashed in the medium malavita and was ok...though it was borderline.


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## NevaSummaLuva (Apr 1, 2011)

OU812 said:


> I dunno man, they look centered to me :dunno:
> I was first thinking about buying Union bindings and when I emailed them asking which size with those size boots they told me L/XL. Its too bad it hasn't worked out for you, I'd get the mediums and stick with Cartels. The straps and rackets are so much nicer on the Burton's I think.


You setup looks great!


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## NevaSummaLuva (Apr 1, 2011)

Picked up a pair of 2012 missions on eBay. It was the only bindings I could find online with traditional discs. Anyone know if I can put Cartel Asymm ankle straps on the 2012 missions?


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## bseracka (Nov 14, 2011)

yes............................................


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## scottb7 (Nov 19, 2012)

Just put on my forum republics with hinge disc. And compared to my old bindings the flex is night and day different. I don't know why anyone would want a traditional disc. You don't know what you are missing. Honestly, I tell you that from experience.

And the forum have adjustable base plate. Got the large bindings and moved the base plate where i needed it with no problem. Large binding with size 11 boots. Toe heel hangover just fine.


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## tanscrazydaisy (Mar 11, 2013)

F1EA said:


> The problem is mostly with the Reflex discs, because they only have 3 adjustment holes (as opposed to 4 on the regular discs). This does not happen on the EST because they offer a lot more range to adjust.
> 
> Ussually, when your boot falls inbetween sizes you can find it hard to center in the board (too much heelside if your boot's too small for the binding, toeside if it's too big).
> 
> I actually have regular Burton discs that i could try for fit on Reflex Missions, but i havent tried them (lazy) to check if they fit the reflex bindings. Didnt need to try because my sz 11 TM2's are ok for me on L bindings; but I think the discs fit, because they are awfully similar... they'd just lose re:flex-ness.


Burton non-EST boards have a triangular pattern for their binding holes. Most likely it would to force people to use Burton bindings with burton boards (back before the EST days). 

My 2008-2009 season Burton Triad (which well predates the re:flex) did come with the standard 4-hole discs also (for non-burton boards)


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## NevaSummaLuva (Apr 1, 2011)

scottb7 said:


> Just put on my forum republics with hinge disc. And compared to my old bindings the flex is night and day different. I don't know why anyone would want a traditional disc. You don't know what you are missing. Honestly, I tell you that from experience.
> 
> And the forum have adjustable base plate. Got the large bindings and moved the base plate where i needed it with no problem. Large binding with size 11 boots. Toe heel hangover just fine.


Wouldn't centering my boot with a traditional disc prove more beneficial than having an uncentered boot with a reflex disc? I rarely do any park, 95% freeride. Never Summer SL 158

What on the Forum baseplate is adjustable? the heelcup?


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## scottb7 (Nov 19, 2012)

Everything on the forum line is moveable. You can move the entire base plate with the heel cup. then you can also adjust the heel cup. And as i mentioned you the hinge disc. Even if you don't go in the park you get more flex out of the board which i personally thing is better for carving or any small jumps you might want to play with as more bending of the board gave me a whole lot more pop.

THE REPUBLIC

if you look at the binding pic you will see bottom of the 3 screws allows for base plate to be moved forward/back. Then there is a screw set for highback, and of course top one for straps. plus you get hinge disc and canting footbed. 

i agonized cause i wanted the cartel or the malavita. but i am very glad i did not. the hinge or bendable discs is the real deal in my opinion and the heel hammock is not proven to be so great.

EDIT:::Just to be clear and to be pointed...Does everyone see what happened. Burton bought a company that produced a better product. Then shut down that company. Enjoy your traditional disc.



forum is owned by burton and will be gone next year. i think.


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## bseracka (Nov 14, 2011)

tanscrazydaisy said:


> *Burton non-EST boards have a triangular pattern for their binding holes. Most likely it would to force people to use Burton bindings with burton boards (back before the EST days). *
> My 2008-2009 season Burton Triad (which well predates the re:flex) did come with the standard 4-hole discs also (for non-burton boards)


They always included the 4x4 disc to allow for more sales on the 3d bindings. On the lower level bindings they used a single universal disc good for 3d and 4x4. They did cut costs on the 4x4 discs by not putting foot bed material on them.


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## NevaSummaLuva (Apr 1, 2011)

scottb7 said:


> Everything on the forum line is moveable. You can move the entire base plate with the heel cup. then you can also adjust the heel cup. And as i mentioned you the hinge disc. Even if you don't go in the park you get more flex out of the board which i personally thing is better for carving or any small jumps you might want to play with as more bending of the board gave me a whole lot more pop.
> 
> THE REPUBLIC
> 
> ...


I agree. Forums hinge disk is actually a HINGE. Def better than the reflex disc. There are still some republics floating around on eBay. Ill try and pick one up

Thanks For the info


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## tonicusa (Feb 27, 2008)

What size Republics are you looking for, I have an extra pair of Medium black. I also have an extra set of Large heel hoops you can retrofit into the medium binding (a little trick courtesy of Rider Services).


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

scottb7 said:


> EDIT:::Just to be clear and to be pointed...Does everyone see what happened. Burton bought a company that produced a better product. Then shut down that company. Enjoy your traditional disc.
> 
> 
> 
> forum is owned by burton and will be gone next year. i think.


Forum is already gone. Whatever you're seeing now is older stuff still in stock.

And i don't think the burton thing was for a single product (ie bindings). It was everything, Forum was an up and coming company who managed to grow and grabbed a good team of riders...... made good products at much better price than Burton. They probably had some good financial backing....... so Burton bought then killed the competition. That was a mega douche move.


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## OU812 (Feb 2, 2013)

I don't see it as a douche move, it's capitalism.
I'm not defending Burton however 99% of companies would do the same if they had the funds. I don't think Burton's intention was to shut Forum down, they just bit off more than they could chew. Didn't they get rid of some other names as well. Besides Forum didn't have to sell right? It's too bad we as customers lost an option but life goes on.


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

OU812 said:


> I don't see it as a douche move, it's capitalism.
> I'm not defending Burton however 99% of companies would do the same if they had the funds. I don't think Burton's intention was to shut Forum down, they just bit off more than they could chew. Didn't they get rid of some other names as well. Besides Forum didn't have to sell right? It's too bad we as customers lost an option but life goes on.


Lol i was actually going to write "that's capitalism for ya" right at the end.

But hmmm, i think it's a douche move; mostly because had Forum been their ONLY competitor, it would have actually been illegal... 

But yea... that's capitalism. Personally, I don't care. I'd buy Burton as much as i'd buy Never summer, Ride, Salomon, Forum, Capita.... etc or anyone else. If i like the product and it's at reasonable price.


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## scottb7 (Nov 19, 2012)

This is all I got to say Buck Ferton


Just kidding. All is fair in love, war, and capitalism.


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## Triple8Sol (Nov 24, 2008)

OU812 said:


> I don't see it as a douche move, it's capitalism.
> I'm not defending Burton however 99% of companies would do the same if they had the funds. I don't think Burton's intention was to shut Forum down, they just bit off more than they could chew. Didn't they get rid of some other names as well. Besides Forum didn't have to sell right? It's too bad we as customers lost an option but life goes on.


Yeah they also killed off Special Blend and Foursquare. It def saddens me because Forum and SB were my favorite brands/teams when I started riding ~14yrs ago.


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## scottb7 (Nov 19, 2012)

Yep, when i started riding 4 years ago. I bought 2 pants and 2 jackets from special blend and foursquare. So I am nostalgic.

Hope those dude's at forum cashed out. But if they were not smart enough to cash out then I guess it serves them right. Maybe they did not make money and run the forum into the ground. Hard to know. Maybe the stuff was too good relative to the volume sold and did not make money. Hard to say.

Nostalgic: A bittersweet longing for things, persons, or situations of the past.


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## atr3yu (Feb 15, 2012)

So turns out they just sent me the regular re:flex disks..... yay.. I don't seem to noticed the off center-ness so much on my Charlie since I am just riding pow. So I guess they will just stay on my Charlie or I will try to trade for something interesting.


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

atr3yu said:


> So turns out they just sent me the regular re:flex disks..... yay.. I don't seem to noticed the off center-ness so much on my Charlie since I am just riding pow. So I guess they will just stay on my Charlie or I will try to trade for something interesting.


Oh that sucks. Maybe call them again and tell em it didn't work? see if they send you other discs. I guess you have nothing to lose anymore....


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## NevaSummaLuva (Apr 1, 2011)

Mounted the traditional disc missions i got yesterday. Look at the difference in the centering vs. the cartel reflex


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## grimsontyde (Oct 13, 2011)

I just picked up 15' Cartels Reflex today and ran into the same problem, I cant center the bindings properly, heels end up to far back, with a size 10.5 L/XL binding.. hmm


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

atr3yu said:


> So turns out they just sent me the regular re:flex disks..... yay.. I don't seem to noticed the off center-ness so much on my Charlie since I am just riding pow. So I guess they will just stay on my Charlie or I will try to trade for something interesting.


Oh actually, i have a Charlie and noticed the same thing. My L Missions were perfectly centered on it, but heel heavy on an Endeavor Live and NS Cobra.

I think it has to do with the Charlie's sidecut. Very mellow sidecut = better centering.


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