# Binding Options for a All Mountain Freestyle Board



## cutilikre036 (Aug 4, 2020)

Hey guys, I have an 2020 Endeavour Pioneer (Size 11 Boot), and I'm starting to ride in the park, and I want something that can do that without sacrificing too much carving ability. My choices so far were (in no order) 1. Arbor Cypress 2. Union Strata 3. Burton Cartel 4. Rome Katana. I've also heard some good things about the Burton Malavita and the Salomon Hologram. Can anyone give any recommendations or comment on these 4?


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## Rip154 (Sep 23, 2017)

burton est vita or xbase


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## Phedder (Sep 13, 2014)

Yeah since you have the channel may as well capitalize on it, I'd go EST Cartel, Vita, or Genesis depending on budget and preferences.


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## drblast (Feb 28, 2017)

EST Cartel, and get the large size. If your boots are reduced footprint you might be able to squeeze into mediums but you'll overpower them especially on a wide board.


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## cutilikre036 (Aug 4, 2020)

drblast said:


> EST Cartel, and get the large size. If your boots are reduced footprint you might be able to squeeze into mediums but you'll overpower them especially on a wide board.


wdym overpower them? As in i'll get too quick of turn response?


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## cutilikre036 (Aug 4, 2020)

Phedder said:


> Yeah since you have the channel may as well capitalize on it, I'd go EST Cartel, Vita, or Genesis depending on budget and preferences.


Ok so I know the Cartel is like your do it all binding, and malavita is a bit stiffer (according to reviews at least), and then the Genesis is at a higher pricepoint than both of these two. My question is whether I should go EST/Reflex since I'll probably keep my board for 3-4 years, at which point I might get a new one. Should I get new bindings at that time (like is it necessary) or can I keep my bindings, in which case I dont want to limit myself to channel boards only. Is there a huge difference between reflex and est?


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## jstar (Sep 21, 2016)

The Cartel EST would be my pick. 

And yeah, at 3-4 years you might as well get the EST. If you end up selling the board, just do it as a package with the bindings (if you end up needing new bindings).


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## cutilikre036 (Aug 4, 2020)

jstar said:


> The Cartel EST would be my pick.
> 
> And yeah, at 3-4 years you might as well get the EST. If you end up selling the board, just do it as a package with the bindings (if you end up needing new bindings).


what''s the benefit of EST exaclty? I understood it to be more responsive. tho malavita est has the hinge which isn't avaliable on reflex models


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## Rip154 (Sep 23, 2017)

cutilikre036 said:


> Ok so I know the Cartel is like your do it all binding, and malavita is a bit stiffer (according to reviews at least), and then the Genesis is at a higher pricepoint than both of these two. My question is whether I should go EST/Reflex since I'll probably keep my board for 3-4 years, at which point I might get a new one. Should I get new bindings at that time (like is it necessary) or can I keep my bindings, in which case I dont want to limit myself to channel boards only. Is there a huge difference between reflex and est?


Cartel has a stiffer ankle strap. Vita has an asym ankle strap that give less pressure points when you bend your ankles alot, so it's better with soft boots. Cartel has a new version for 2021, so I'm not sure there's any benefit to the Vita besides the strap, but that's important to me. Vita also has some canting, which I think they dropped on Cartels in 2021, so in theory you can sport a wider stance if that's your thing, but I think it's just more painful than regular. If I could have the footbed and highback of the new Cartel, and the strap of the Malavita, no doubt for me, and that's why I liked the X-base I guess. Genesis just seems unnecessary now. EST has less plastic under foot, because the screws are attached on the sides, so more comfort. The hinge makes the binding move more with the board, which has some benefits, mainly that you don't have to tighten the screws as often.


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## drblast (Feb 28, 2017)

cutilikre036 said:


> wdym overpower them? As in i'll get too quick of turn response?


I used to have medium Malavitas on a trice pro, and the base would bend significantly in turns reducing the response. It felt sluggish and I was pretty much at the last hole on the straps so I had a lot of leverage pulling in that smaller binding.

There was an immediate difference when I put metal bindings on that didn't flex.


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## Rip154 (Sep 23, 2017)

drblast said:


> I used to have medium Malavitas on a trice pro, and the base would bend significantly in turns reducing the response. It felt sluggish and I was pretty much at the last hole on the straps so I had a lot of leverage pulling in that smaller binding.
> 
> There was an immediate difference when I put metal bindings on that didn't flex.


Has something to do with that board too, so if the Endeavor is similar ye. Had some issues with large Cartels on a trice, so not sure size will make a difference, but most boards are fine for me in a medium binding as long as they aren't too wide and torsionally stiff. Going wide on that board wasn't necessary as it flexed too much in the middle to take advantage of the width.


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## AC93 (May 1, 2020)

cutilikre036 said:


> Hey guys, I have an 2020 Endeavour Pioneer (Size 11 Boot), and I'm starting to ride in the park, and I want something that can do that without sacrificing too much carving ability. My choices so far were (in no order) 1. Arbor Cypress 2. Union Strata 3. Burton Cartel 4. Rome Katana. I've also heard some good things about the Burton Malavita and the Salomon Hologram. Can anyone give any recommendations or comment on these 4?


I would go for the cartel or malavita reflex version. seen alot of people having issues with the est bindings. They were always retightening them. i've ridden both reflex and est, I honestly dont feel that much of a difference between the two. except, i have never had to retighten my reflex bindings.


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## cutilikre036 (Aug 4, 2020)

AC93 said:


> I would go for the cartel or malavita reflex version. seen alot of people having issues with the est bindings. They were always retightening them. i've ridden both reflex and est, I honestly dont feel that much of a difference between the two. except, i have never had to retighten my reflex bindings.


Malavita has a hinged hell cup avaliable on EST only, so i was thinking maybe go est. When you say retightening them, do you mean retightening the screws that actually hold the bindings in place to the board, or the toe/ankle straps?


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## cutilikre036 (Aug 4, 2020)

drblast said:


> I used to have medium Malavitas on a trice pro, and the base would bend significantly in turns reducing the response. It felt sluggish and I was pretty much at the last hole on the straps so I had a lot of leverage pulling in that smaller binding.
> 
> There was an immediate difference when I put metal bindings on that didn't flex.



base of the board or base of the binding? Both cases don't sound good. What are some good metal bindings I should look at then? I don't know many who use metal (other than bent metal co)


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## AC93 (May 1, 2020)

cutilikre036 said:


> Malavita has a hinged hell cup avaliable on EST only, so i was thinking maybe go est. When you say retightening them, do you mean retightening the screws that actually hold the bindings in place to the board, or the toe/ankle straps?


Yes, I was referring to the screws that mount the bindings on the board


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## bob2356 (Jul 13, 2012)

Don't know anything about the union strata, but I've had great luck with the STR.


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## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

TL;DR

All good options honestly, but Rome DOD or Katana. Pretty much the only bindings I give a shit to ride anymore. (And Freeballers, but... c'mon... they're Freeballers)


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## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

AC93 said:


> I would go for the cartel or malavita reflex version. seen alot of people having issues with the est bindings. They were always retightening them. i've ridden both reflex and est, I honestly dont feel that much of a difference between the two. except, i have never had to retighten my reflex bindings.


So I never have, and here's the thing with Channel and EST. You can get new bolts AND inerts. And by no issues I mean mount it in the fall and never touch it again... so....


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## cutilikre036 (Aug 4, 2020)

Nivek said:


> So I never have, and here's the thing with Channel and EST. You can get new bolts AND inerts. And by no issues I mean mount it in the fall and never touch it again... so....


sorry i dont really understand what you're saying


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## Phedder (Sep 13, 2014)

cutilikre036 said:


> sorry i dont really understand what you're saying


I think he's saying he never had to re-tighten the bolts on his channel/EST combos. 

I'm mostly the same, if I'm riding a channel board I'm riding it with EST Bindings. I just really enjoy the feel that the hinge provides, and infinite stance adjustment can be pretty useful. Of the 9 channel boards I've owned, I've only had to retighten 1 often and another 1 rarely through the season. The 1 I had to deal with often was second hand and well used, so worn inserts were likely the culprit. New board and new bindings, crank them down when you mount them and you won't have any issues. 

If I'm not on a channel board, I'm a Rome bindings fanboy now. Katanas are just so damn good and work across such a wide range of boards and styles.


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## Rip154 (Sep 23, 2017)

cutilikre036 said:


> sorry i dont really understand what you're saying


And maybe that if you mess up the inserts, you can just buy new ones on channel boards, can't do that on 2x4s. I had some Custom EST bindings, and they were wiggling loose all the time, but the X-bases seem fine so far. I have some hinged Cartels too, but the footbeds were awful, so I don't really use those, maybe if I can find some replacement footbeds. Since they don't have an EST Mission next year, maybe that's the last of the issues with EST gone, that the softer EST bases without hinge didn't work well enough.


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## BoarderHack89 (Mar 1, 2020)

I hate bindings with thick straps. The Union Team force from last year and Union force 2021 are great. Lightt, good fit, and really like the straps.


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## Scalpelman (Dec 5, 2017)

cutilikre036 said:


> sorry i dont really understand what you're saying


I think what he’s saying is, no matter what binding you own, you should check the screws throughout the season. It’s not a set it and forget it.


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## jickx09 (Apr 26, 2019)

Rip154 said:


> And maybe that if you mess up the inserts, you can just buy new ones on channel boards, can't do that on 2x4s. I had some Custom EST bindings, and they were wiggling loose all the time, but the X-bases seem fine so far. I have some hinged Cartels too, but the footbeds were awful, so I don't really use those, maybe if I can find some replacement footbeds. Since they don't have an EST Mission next year, maybe that's the last of the issues with EST gone, that the softer EST bases without hinge didn't work well enough.


Wow I just realize now that the EST version is missing from several Burton bindings. 😮 Weird, I thought that the recent versions of EST were reliable and successful. Scrapping it on the lower-end models suggests that it was not. Pity.


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## Needmoresnow (Dec 29, 2019)

jickx09 said:


> Wow I just realize now that the EST version is missing from several Burton bindings. 😮 Weird, I thought that the recent versions of EST were reliable and successful. Scrapping it on the lower-end models suggests that it was not. Pity.


Just checked their site, looks like they still offer it on everything but the freestyle binding. Burton never offered it on their low end bindings afaik.


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## jickx09 (Apr 26, 2019)

Needmoresnow said:


> Just checked their site, looks like they still offer it on everything but the freestyle binding. Burton never offered it on their low end bindings afaik.


I meant that the EST version is missing from the 2021 of e.g. the Custom or the Mission. On the website you can still find the 2019 and 2020 models indeed also in EST.


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## Needmoresnow (Dec 29, 2019)

jickx09 said:


> I meant that the EST version is missing from the 2021 of e.g. the Custom or the Mission. On the website you can still find the 2019 and 2020 models indeed also in EST.


I think the Custom is no longer in the lineup for 2021, just the mission in reflex. Everything up from there is available in both EST and reflex.


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## Rip154 (Sep 23, 2017)

jickx09 said:


> I meant that the EST version is missing from the 2021 of e.g. the Custom or the Mission. On the website you can still find the 2019 and 2020 models indeed also in EST.


It could be just a cost or demand issue, but I had some real problems with the CustomEST, maybe it was a bad year. Now that the Custom binding is merged with Mission, it's just that one and the freestyle missing from the EST line. I know the X doesn't use the hinge on est because it would be heavier, and it's now the only one without hinge. X also isn't offered in reflex, maybe just a logical decision because of the added weight, or that they can't offer the springbed in reflex.


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## jickx09 (Apr 26, 2019)

Needmoresnow said:


> I think the Custom is no longer in the lineup for 2021, just the mission in reflex. Everything up from there is available in both EST and reflex.


You are right, I haven't noticed that the Custom is not there anymore. Since I did some shopping at the spring sales earlier this year, I've been trying to not to browse for new stuff.




Rip154 said:


> It could be just a cost or demand issue, but I had some real problems with the CustomEST, maybe it was a bad year. Now that the Custom binding is merged with Mission, it's just that one and the freestyle missing from the EST line. I know the X doesn't use the hinge on est because it would be heavier, and it's now the only one without hinge. X also isn't offered in reflex, maybe just a logical decision because of the added weight, or that they can't offer the springbed in reflex.


I hope that the '19 Mission EST, which I bought will be OK. Can't wait to try them out this winter.


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