# Turns on Narrow runs/slipways/run off slopes.



## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

Haha, we have plenty of these narrow "badass drop" tracks  some years ago, I hated them, especially in spring time. Hard ice in the mornings, nasty mogul parcours in the afternoon. Nowadays I love to ride ("bomb") them. 

Not sure what you mean with back-leg ruddering and dynamic turns. 

I don't use my upper body for turn initiation on these tracks. Actually, with all the skiers on them, there's not enough space left to do proper turns. So I got it centered and stable and the legs do the work. Depends on how narrow I want to stay and how fast I want to be and how steep the track is. The steeper, the more work is done by the back leg, nose points down, weight on front leg, back leg makes the edge to edge transition. With this, you can stay very narrow and won't gain too much speed in steeps. 
If there's slightly more space, I do rather fast edge to edge transitions with both legs equally engaged. Again, not real turns. Both legs bent low, weight slightly on front leg, the moment the edge grips put pressure on the edge so knees will stretch slightly and before the board really turns you use the momentum, change edge, force especially front part of edge and bend knees deep for next "turn". The faster, the lower and more weight on front leg. Dont "ask" the board to turn, force it on edge. Maybe that's not what you wanted to know/do, but that's how I do and it's fun


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## Kevin137 (May 5, 2013)

To be fair, the only thing you should be worrying about here, but if you think you are an intermediate and can really cope with most runs, then it is more than likely just a confidence thing...

The more you ride them as you would any other run the more confident you will become...

If you are in front, then it is down to whoever is behind to be aware of you, not you being nervous because they are behind... Try to put others out of your thoughts and ride as normal...


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## Decade190 (Feb 26, 2012)

neni said:


> Haha, we have plenty of these narrow "badass drop" tracks  some years ago, I hated them, especially in spring time. Hard ice in the mornings, nasty mogul parcours in the afternoon. Nowadays I love to ride ("bomb") them.
> 
> Not sure what you mean with back-leg ruddering and dynamic turns.
> 
> ...


Ha that does sound fun. Sounds like when it is reeaaly narrow there is an element of swinging the back leg then? I've always heard of back-leg ruddering as some evil technique that should never be used (or in the forums this seems to be the case). Maybe there's a place for it...
One day I will be that boarder that bombs through the middle of the weaving skiiers... one day :blink:


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## Decade190 (Feb 26, 2012)

Kevin137 said:


> To be fair, the only thing you should be worrying about here, but if you think you are an intermediate and can really cope with most runs, then it is more than likely just a confidence thing...
> 
> The more you ride them as you would any other run the more confident you will become...
> 
> If you are in front, then it is down to whoever is behind to be aware of you, not you being nervous because they are behind... Try to put others out of your thoughts and ride as normal...


True... there is an element of me freaking out when I see the edge. And imagining diving off the side in a dramatic accident, taking several skiers out with me. 
OR... maybe it just makes me hyper-aware of my technique, whereas I don't think about it as much on a wide open stretch :dunno:


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## Kevin137 (May 5, 2013)

Do you mean the type of run that is this kind of width...???

About 2 mins in, not before...






That is what we have for a green at my local slope, it can be a little intimidating for sure, but once you have a little confidence on it, then you soon understand that you won't have the problems you think you will... 

The young lad in the video, is 7, his 1st trip down there last year was hilarious, he was really worried, and actually crashed head 1st into the rocks the other side... Hehe

His season edit shows more about how he copes now, and the difference is huge, which i honestly believe comes down to confidence, i know everyone is different, and our levels are different, but we are all capable of what we put our minds too, it just takes a little longer for some to overcome our fear of what concerns us...

Don't worry though, you are not alone, we ALL have that at some stage, and once through it, it makes the next step in our learning all the more enjoyable...


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## Deviant (Dec 22, 2009)

OP, I know what you mean. Usually these narrow runs are fairly flat pitches where you'll need to go straight to maintain speed, but from time to time you'll run into a moderate pitch. 2 big things are confidence and not target-fixating on the edge. Keep your eyes ahead and not peeking over at the edge constantly. As we all know with snowboarding your body follows your head. If you want to practice just find a wider run and try to maintain a straight path with turns instead of turning across the hill. 

I ran into this in colorado this past march, the run below was narrow at the top but a fairly decent pitch up until 30 seconds then it flattened out. Mostly bothered me as I have a mild fear of heights, it's odd because we rode the slope to the right of the edge but still was a weird feeling riding along the ridge. It looks wider due to the gopro wide angle lens. Since you said you sometimes slide on one edge the whole way it mostly sounds like a confidence issue.


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## AntipodeanSam (Apr 19, 2013)

Kevin137 said:


> The young lad in the video, is 7, his 1st trip down there last year was hilarious, he was really worried, and actually crashed head 1st into the rocks the other side... Hehe
> 
> Don't worry though, you are not alone, we ALL have that at some stage, and once through it, it makes the next step in our learning all the more enjoyable...


Little legend!!! Yeah that is about the size of most of our bloody slopes at many of the NZ ski fields, haha.

I am assuming the OP means a little smaller? Either way, no shame in using some back leg ruddering in the narrows, full on turns with traffic just isn't feasible on some runs. Just my opinion, I'm no expert...


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## Kevin137 (May 5, 2013)

> I ran into this in colorado this past march.


That does look a little narrower than what he was riding for sure, but for a 6 or 7 year old everything is frightening...  Hence he went head 1st the other side... Hehe



> Little legend!!!


He is getting there that is for sure, we are very proud of him, he only got about 24 hours on the snow his 1st season, but his 2nd, this past season he has been really focused, tried really hard and pushed himself hard, he has had some great support from a few of the local pros, Stian Sivertzen has been amazing with him, and always takes time to push him that little harder... 

We started a fb page for him in March, and he has nearly a 1000 likes on it already, and we post his videos there, you can see many more, including his 1st attempt at a slush pool, with hilarious results, but he went at it with the aim of succeeding even though he knew he would probably not...

If anyone else wants to follow him or just see more of his videos, www.sneakysnowboarder.com takes you straight there... The more the merrier, he loves that people see what he does, he thinks it's really cool... So much so, he raided his savings to buy his own action camera even though we already had 2 in the house, purely because then it is his, and not mine... So cool...


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## MarshallV82 (Apr 6, 2011)

Just spot a good line and ride it. Sorry, I suck at giving advice.

Bend your knees a lot and dig in to stay stable, you can turn quick to avoid people in your way. I think it's more of mental block for you. Try them early in the day over and over when it's not crowded.


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

fhendo190 said:


> Ha that does sound fun. Sounds like when it is reeaaly narrow there is an element of swinging the back leg then? I've always heard of back-leg ruddering as some evil technique that should never be used (or in the forums this seems to be the case). Maybe there's a place for it...
> One day I will be that boarder that bombs through the middle of the weaving skiiers... one day :blink:


Well... ruddering sound negative and I think I can imagine, what it defines. I see people "rudder" forceless and uncoordinated with their back legs and upper body turned in the opposite direction. In that case I'd also say it's bad 


@Kevin: Your vid is a highway! 
I'm thinking of almost 1000 vertical meters of this (here a least with a rope :laugh









Or one of my favorite passages at home, begins at 0:58 (not my vid). Right side it a vertical drop of about 500m.


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## MarshallV82 (Apr 6, 2011)

neni said:


> Well... ruddering sound negative and I think I can imagine, what it defines. I see people "rudder" forceless and uncoordinated with their back legs and upper body turned in the opposite direction. In that case I'd also say it's bad
> 
> 
> @Kevin: Your vid is a highway!
> ...


I love launching off the side of cat tracks like that, Snowbird UT was great for those.


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## Kevin137 (May 5, 2013)

neni said:


> @Kevin: Your vid is a highway!
> I'm thinking of almost 1000 vertical meters of this (here a least with a rope :laugh


You are looking at it with a child on the , it is 7 metres wide, although it does appear that it is wider in points because it actually is, at points, but they put a little mound of snow to stop you ending up in the trees, like that helps when you can't ski or snowboard, and to be fair, i would, if i was a novice skier stay well away from the likes of what you posted, but where i am now with my boarding, i would be off the side having loads of fun in the POW...


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

MarshallV82 said:


> I love launching off the side of cat tracks like that, Snowbird UT was great for those.


Uhm... not at this place! We see this every year... you get a good view from down at the aprés ski bar at how the heli rescue team tries to get them out off the cliff. well... it's better now since they put lots of warnings signs with scull n crossbones  but at other spots I totally agree, groomers are only good for connecting fields of gold 

To the OP: try to exercise at a spot where you feel save e.g. a wide slope. You could define a range of 3m from the poles that indicate the border of a groomer to be your track and exercise short turns, fast edge to edge transition there (use your knees! ). There you won't be distracted by drops, trees or skiers. Take your time, confidence comes automatically. If you KNOW you can stay within a certain corridor on a groomer, these tracks will loose their freight :yahoo:


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## ItchEtrigR (Jan 1, 2012)

Kevin137 said:


> That does look a little narrower than what he was riding for sure, but for a 6 or 7 year old everything is frightening...  Hence he went head 1st the other side... Hehe
> 
> 
> 
> ...


dope !! tell the lil superstar he got himself a fan in oslo... Im in kongsberg quite often... its a sweet little resort you guys got their, we usually go on the alpinetog tilbud from nsb when I need a break from the crowds in tryvann...


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## Kevin137 (May 5, 2013)

ItchEtrigR said:


> dope !! tell the lil superstar he got himself a fan in oslo... Im in kongsberg quite often... its a sweet little resort you guys got their, we usually go on the alpinetog tilbud from nsb when I need a break from the crowds in tryvann...


Cool, i was in Tryvann in April, last week, i love it there, but Kongsberg is "home" for me... 

I actually live in Drammen, not Kongsberg, but hey, what's a small drive... Haha


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## Ocho (Mar 13, 2011)

fhendo190 said:


> True... there is an element of me freaking out when I see the edge. And imagining diving off the side in a dramatic accident, taking several skiers out with me.
> OR... maybe it just makes me hyper-aware of my technique, whereas I don't think about it as much on a wide open stretch :dunno:


Remember: where you look is where you go. 

I'll catch myself noticing a careen-to-my-death drop edge and promptly switch my focus and thoughts. Especially when I rapidly begin to wonder if I'd hit that tree first _then_ the rocks? Or the rocks first? Before long into such speculation I'm much closer to that edge than I'd prefer to be.

Basically it's that cue of thought progression to snap me back to reality and immediately look where it is I actually want to go. Ideally I have it down to when I glance at it, I look away.


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## Kevin137 (May 5, 2013)

@ItchEtrigR

You know that Timeksrpessen has a deal for a return ticket with lift pass as well don't you...???

Maybe not quite as fast as the train, but it is in force everyday, just so you know... 

Stay in touch and we can hook up next season, and you can take the piss out of my bad riding...


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## Decade190 (Feb 26, 2012)

AntipodeanSam said:


> Little legend!!! Yeah that is about the size of most of our bloody slopes at many of the NZ ski fields, haha.
> 
> I am assuming the OP means a little smaller? Either way, no shame in using some back leg ruddering in the narrows, full on turns with traffic just isn't feasible on some runs. Just my opinion, I'm no expert...


Yeah, some of the runs i'm talking are narrower, pretty much a few metres across and next to some crazy cliff edges.

Mad props to the little dude for his riding though. He's gunna be amazing by the time he's my/our age if he sticks with it!


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## Decade190 (Feb 26, 2012)

neni said:


> To the OP: try to exercise at a spot where you feel save e.g. a wide slope. :





EatRideSleep said:


> Remember: where you look is where you go.
> 
> .


Yeah good advice... I need to practice my technique more on wider groomers I think rather than just bmbing around all the time (however fun that may be).

And as most people have said, I just got to ignore the edges or just man up and deal with it ha. Unfortunately I won't be able to put this into practice until December now 

Anyone got any vids of them/someone riding one of these narrow slopes well?


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## AntipodeanSam (Apr 19, 2013)

fhendo190 said:


> Yeah good advice... I need to practice my technique more on wider groomers I think rather than just bmbing around all the time (however fun that may be).
> 
> And as most people have said, I just got to ignore the edges or just man up and deal with it ha. Unfortunately I won't be able to put this into practice until December now
> 
> Anyone got any vids of them/someone riding one of these narrow slopes well?


Yeah sorry if ruddering is just looking straight down the mountain and twisting legs and core that is bad, you still need to maintain your basic edge to edge principals with in line shoulders and head just on a much smaller scale. 

You will be fine, just hold your line and don't worry about people behind or around you, especially skiers


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## Krato (Apr 29, 2013)

when in doubt, 0 or 90

thats what i always say


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