# Brand Showdown: Never Summer vs. YES vs. Lib Tech



## ridinbend (Aug 2, 2012)

Yes has not been around long enough to be in that list.


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## sleev-les (Feb 26, 2010)

Never Summer is my brand of choice. Never was fond of my Lib Tech. Haven't tried YES so can't comment.


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## deagol (Mar 26, 2014)

I voted for another brand, if only to bring attention to it (not saying it is "better" than the others since I have not owned all of the above-mentioned brands). But Venture Snowboards based out of Silverton does build very durable quality boards using sustainable materials that are locally sourced whenever possible (especially their wood). 

I also do really like Never Summer ever since getting one of their boards in 2012. It still looks almost brand new and has held up to all sorts of stuff I have put it through. Not to mention, it had nice understated graphics. I am not a fan of busy cartoon or graffiti-like graphics, so YMMV.

I can't comment on the ride or the quality of Yes or Lib Tech boards, but I can't stand their graphics.


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## BurtonAvenger (Aug 14, 2007)

What year Yes are we talking here? Which factory because they've been built in 3 different factories now. 

If we're talking consistent quality then anything built in Asia shits on anything built in the U.S. 

If we're talking perceived quality then all the Kool-Aid drinkers will say NS. 

Now if we're talking people that actually work in the industries interpretation of quality I would go with SWS from Dubai having the best quality right now followed by Capita's factory tied with certain Chinese factories.


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## alxmlr789 (Jun 4, 2014)

This forum is full of neversummer fanboys, naturally NS probably will get the vote around here. Between those three, I like never summer, but there are some great companies out there not mentioned. Neversummers carbonium series are durable as hell. Lib Tech is way over priced (see thread below this). 

Rome (one of my personal favs), Arbor, Rossingnol makes a durable board, and Capita. 

I currently ride NS and Rome.


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## hardasacatshead (Aug 21, 2013)

BurtonAvenger said:


> SWS from Dubai having the best quality right now


Is this where Arbor are getting their boards made now BA? Their 2014/15 boards look bloody great, gives me a good feeling about their 2016 gear.


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## hardasacatshead (Aug 21, 2013)

Oh and on the OP - I ride a Neversummer and can vouch for its longevity, I've flogged that thing and it still rides well and takes a beating with little damage. I did have a Lib and it turned to shit pretty quickly. Have never owned a Yes board. But let's be honest, that list is pretty damn small...


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## BurtonAvenger (Aug 14, 2007)

hardasacatshead said:


> Is this where Arbor are getting their boards made now BA? Their 2014/15 boards look bloody great, gives me a good feeling about their 2016 gear.


That would be correct. SWS is also making Yes. for next year and I believe a few other brands.


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## deagol (Mar 26, 2014)

For the record, the NS I have is one with carbonium top sheet. There is no Kool-Aid in my assessment, but whatever. I am currently testing 3 NS boards, one without the carbonium, and all three feel like very well made boards. 

I have read a few various posts disparaging the brand, but have not seen anything that actually demonstrates where this comes from (not saying there may not be valid point, but I have not seen them). I am not claiming to be a board "expert", but have had various boards throughout the decades and so far the NS is doing great as far as durability goes. The brands I can compare it to would be Burton, Nidecker, Sims, and Venture as far as ones that I have owned. I abandoned Burton after they went to channel, so there is that .....

Back in the old days, there were brands like Kemper, Barfoot, Aggression, Morrow, Lamar, Crazy Bannana, and so on. Not sure what people thought of them, but they no longer appear to be around. Seems that brand longevity would be indication they (NS) are doing something right, besides giving out free Kool-Aid, that is.


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## alxmlr789 (Jun 4, 2014)

I love kool-aid.


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## ridinbend (Aug 2, 2012)

Snoopy snow cone maker


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

Yes up there in the ranks now? They're going to need more patents.

As for voting, I voted: who the fuck cares.


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## scotty100 (Apr 3, 2012)

deagol said:


> For the record, the NS I have is one with carbonium top sheet. There is no Kool-Aid in my assessment, but whatever. I am currently testing 3 NS boards, one without the carbonium, and all three feel like very well made boards.
> 
> I have read a few various posts disparaging the brand, but have not seen anything that actually demonstrates where this comes from (not saying there may not be valid point, but I have not seen them). I am not claiming to be a board "expert", but have had various boards throughout the decades and so far the NS is doing great as far as durability goes.
> 
> Seems that brand longevity would be indication they (NS) are doing something right, besides giving out free Kool-Aid, that is.


There's always been a lot of NS love on here over the years I've been a member, as a result some suggest over-hype, which is almost inevitable really and post-snowolf incident a mini-backlash of sorts has emerged. Whatever. I would say 99% of those who ride them think highly of them and report strong durability and build quality. 

Does that make them the be all and end all of snowboards? Of course not. CRC is not for everyone. And as camber is coming back into vogue you'll see a lot of anti-NS comments because of the brands' commitment to CRC. Again, whatever. NS makes a great product for many people, me included. And they make 'em here which, no matter what you may think of mass scale factories outside of the US, boosts the local economy in CO. And personally I think that's a good thing. Ditto the other brands who choose to manufacture in the US.


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## freshy (Nov 18, 2009)

I've always had the hunch that this forum is somehow in cahoots with NS seeing as how the chairman guy comes on here often. And there are the few comments I see where people talk about the NS's they were given to try out. And of course the general fanboyisim everyone notices. So yeah no surprise NS is in the lead.

If they had something other than CRC I would probably buy one, but there are too many other boards I would rather have. I'm so glad Lib realized that banana is not the be all end all and have all kinds of cambers available now.


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## scotty100 (Apr 3, 2012)

The forum is not "in cahoots with NS". Vince posts here just like a lot of other brands' reps do in a generally informative manner. Sure, they give boards out to demo, tell me one brand that doesn't do this? And if they are not doing it, why not? Scared they'll lose their "core" rep...oh please...


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## snowklinger (Aug 30, 2011)

Lets be clear the main thing we are all talking about with durability is one of either 2 things:

1. random factory defect (rare as fuck)

2. cosmetic from rubbing other boards and skis in cars and lift lines.

It is fair to say Carbonium holds up better than a classic glossy sheet in this situation. It is still pretty much equally susceptible to cuts along the edge of said topsheet. My done proto looks all sawed up on the top edges, but the rest of the sheet is fairly pristine (although diiiiiirrrrty). The bottom of that board looks like a warzone, no park or urban.

Any average sized rider at average speed on ANY board running over shit will cause damage, core shots and broken rails.

All talk to the contrary is silly and calls for all sort of hearsay, factors and luck, none of which is truly available for measure.

Never Summer makes a nice board, you hold it, you ride it, you know and feel it. This factory in Dubai apparently is making nice snowboards. Machine process is pretty high tech these days, as well as the ability of craftsmen and their tools. Lets not be a bunch of sissys about it.

In some ways the OP's question is inherently flawed. There are many reasons to choose a deck, NS isn't for everyone obviously. The real question is which sidecut and base profile do you like? What is your price point? Do you care about base material, local company, wrapped edges? Do you ride park? Do you send cliff? All of this shit is preference, all the guys are putting pretty nice shit out these days!

You fault the Chairman for participating? That's pretty fucked up he keeps it pretty chill, nobody is getting free boards. I wish more brands would do this. Union has done pretty well around here. I have reached out to Burton but would be happy to work with any other brands on this kind of level. I work 8 days a week on other shit so I could give a shit about pursuing it unless its something everyone wants.

I've called NS out for some shit I didn't like here and there but the fact is that I've bought 3 boards over the last 4 years and my participation with you all and as a customer has led them to send me decks to demo for everyone's benefit. I will be returning them next month. No reason to be a shit because you choose a life with less snowboarding. I put enough into the sport to reap some rewards, they aren't that big of a deal. I'm sure you all get bonus meth from time to time.

Lets focus on what is real and what is positive.

The new Ripsaw design will truly satisfy many people wanting either something different from NS, trad camber or both. It isn't camber, but its viable to be sure.


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## ek9max (Apr 8, 2013)

Only experience I had with NS is that 2 Ripsaw boards I had both didn't meassure equal from insert to tip/tail. Supposed to be a true twin. 

Had a few lib tech and thought they were very well built.

I would for sure buy a lib or NS again if they made a RCR profile.


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## deagol (Mar 26, 2014)

I had a Burton BMC several years ago and that $%^&% board snapped like a twig on me and I was no where near the weight limit for the board- tail just snapped like nothing on my second season (only 1.2 seasons on it since this happened fairly early in the second season). I did not abuse that board. I have used my Raptor more aggressively and for at least twice as long as the BMC and it's fine. So that is where my thoughts on durability come in. P-tex has gotten gouged, but that's expected. 

I saw a vid by a poster on this forum where it claimed "camber is dead". I sure as hell hope it's not because it rocks on lots of typical conditions. NS doesn't offer a regular camber board, so if I want to replace my current one, I'll have to look elsewhere.

Riding the Ripsaw profile, though, comes pretty close. The deeper camber portion is noticeable compared to the Raptor and approaches my T6. 

I would like to compare RCR to CRC, and am sure both profiles have something to offer.


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## freshy (Nov 18, 2009)

scotty100 said:


> The forum is not "in cahoots with NS". Vince posts here just like a lot of other brands' reps do in a generally informative manner. Sure, they give boards out to demo, tell me one brand that doesn't do this? And if they are not doing it, why not? Scared they'll lose their "core" rep...oh please...


I'm not trying to be negative about it. It's great that Vince does that. I just really happened to think someone who works at NS set up these forums and there was a natural bias towards that company. It's just random thoughts and a loose opinion I have about this place, please don't take it as some sort of offense towards anyone.

Maybe I'm missing all the threads about Mervyn and Yes lending people demos.


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## scotty100 (Apr 3, 2012)

Are you serious?!! "NS set up these forums"?!!! Lol. That's the funniest thing I've read in a long time.

C'mon dude you've been a member since 2009, you know the shit that went down on here couple of years back with snowolf. Never Summer are smart enough to use this forum as a source of new product development from the feedback they get from the hardcore riders that are on here. In return they give riders the opportunity to try something they might not otherwise get hold of and nine times out of ten it gets them another customer down the road. Fucking win-win if you ask me.

But let's not fight the snowolf wars again...we all know what that was really about.


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## BurtonAvenger (Aug 14, 2007)

Man I've read some good ones, but that has to be the funniest thing I've read on here in a long time. It's the Shredanati controlling all things snowboarding.


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## larrytbull (Oct 30, 2013)

freshy said:


> I'm not trying to be negative about it. It's great that Vince does that. I just really happened to think someone who works at NS set up these forums and there was a natural bias towards that company. It's just random thoughts and a loose opinion I have about this place, please don't take it as some sort of offense towards anyone.
> 
> Maybe I'm missing all the threads about Mervyn and Yes lending people demos.


I'm fairly new to the forum and to snowboarding in general. I have an arbor,sims, and marhar board. My son has 2 burton and 1 never summer.
So I have seen a few different Mfr's board. I have to give it to NS for making a really nice Youth Board. You can really see and feel it when compared to my son's other boards. My son also has relagated the other boards to be rock boards after riding NS. not a fan boy, I buy other mfr's for me, but I have to give them thumbs up for making a really nice board for the youth market, which has some of the features of the adult board (multi radial side cut, hybrid profile, and sintered base) many other mfr's don't have this type of a board for the kids.
and if the youth board is that nice I m pretty sure the adult ones are nicely made as well (judging by the fan boys on this board). :hairy:


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## Mystery2many (Aug 14, 2013)

Don't like any lib tech boards and NS makes outstanding boards. One would say I'm a fanboy.  But I've recently bought the Slash-Happy Place and that board is insanely fun! Decent pop, forgiving on squirrelly jumps, spin friendly, good float, smooth through tight trees and stable at high speeds (not as stable as my NS but stable nonetheless).


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

Man it's great that the NS Chairman comes in here, posts, answers questions, and even better that they hand some boards for dudes to try out. How much better can it get??

As far as 'quality'... NS are good. But about the same as many others, and I think a few others are better. But at that level, performance is key so thats where I'd make my choices. 

No idea how the OP came to the 3 brands in the poll or what he wants to get out of it... Maybe looking for some reassurance?
Pretty pointless thread.


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## chomps1211 (Mar 30, 2011)

My first board was an Arbor Roundhouse. Second, a Rome GR. For my third deck,..? I bought a used NS Proto CT from a forum member turned riding buddy.

I really like all three boards. I have also ridden & demo'd a couple of Burton boards, (…most with some sort of "Flying V" shape) I really didn't care for them. For the riding I was doing here in MI, it seems I just sort of gravitated to the NS Proto being my main board. I still ride the other two, nothing wrong with either of them. I just found myself riding the NS more and more frequently. I progressed riding on all three boards, but feel I have progressed further while riding the Proto.

Now,.. last season I found myself becoming more and more comfortable riding the groomers faster and faster. For this I began to feel the Proto was not the best choice! The CrC felt a little squirrelly to me on hard pack at higher speeds.

So I plan on either demoing or trying out some sort of RcR ride for my next board. If NS has a good RcR deck,..? I will probably check it out. But there are others I am considering as well. (…if it didn't seem as tho Arbor was focused on mainly Rocker'd boards lately, I'd consider one of theirs too.) While I am certainly happy with and enjoy my NS board? I'm not a fanboi or KoolAid drinker!


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## StAntonRider (Dec 15, 2014)

chomps1211 said:


> My first board was an Arbor Roundhouse. Second, a Rome GR. For my third deck,..? I bought a used NS Proto CT from a forum member turned riding buddy.
> 
> I really like all three boards. I have also ridden & demo'd a couple of Burton boards, (…most with some sort of "Flying V" shape) I really didn't care for them. For the riding I was doing here in MI, it seems I just sort of gravitated to the NS Proto being my main board. I still ride the other two, nothing wrong with either of them. I just found myself riding the NS more and more frequently. I progressed riding on all three boards, but feel I have progressed further while riding the Proto.
> 
> ...



Lol, when NS makes an RCR board I'll eat my bindings.


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## chomps1211 (Mar 30, 2011)

StAntonRider said:


> Lol, when NS makes an RCR board I'll eat my bindings.


Well, to further bolster my claim that I'm no NS fanboi,..? I wasn't even aware that NS didn't have a single rCr deck in their lineup! I knew they had a bunch of different CrC's, but NO RcR's at all? I find that hard to understand. 

I've been equally confused by Arbor's lineup lately,.. A few full camber, directional rides and everything else seems to be Mountain Rocker! And I'm not interested in a full rocker board. :dunno: Well, hold on,.. I did like the review for the Marhar Throwback and it's a rocker'd deck. Still, I think I'd rather go for a camber dominant profile on my next ride. RcR is where my interest lay right now.


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## ekb18c (Mar 11, 2013)

I love my RCR Yes Asym.


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## snowklinger (Aug 30, 2011)

StAntonRider said:


> Lol, when NS makes an RCR board I'll eat my bindings.


I think your vegan lifestyle is safe, boddhisattva.


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## chomps1211 (Mar 30, 2011)

snowklinger said:


> I think your vegan lifestyle is safe, boddhisattva.


:lol:
10char


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## f00bar (Mar 6, 2014)

I think people just need to try to justify the money they spend. And in the scheme of things it's not even a ton of money.


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## jtg (Dec 11, 2012)

scotty100 said:


> Never Summer are smart enough to use this forum as a source of new product development from the feedback they get from the hardcore riders that are on here. In return they give riders the opportunity to try something they might not otherwise get hold of and nine times out of ten it gets them another customer down the road. Fucking win-win if you ask me.


Nope, that's not how handing out promo gear works. Your fanboyism is causing you to be naive. You were correct up until "Never Summer are smart enough to use this forum". Everything after that is wrong.


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## Manicmouse (Apr 7, 2014)

jtg said:


> Nope, that's not how handing out promo gear works. Your fanboyism is causing you to be naive. You were correct up until "Never Summer are smart enough to use this forum". Everything after that is wrong.


If you're going to call someone out, at least give your reasons :blahblah:


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## crash77 (Jan 24, 2011)

NS set up these forums...lmao. I think that's hardly the case. Regardless of what brand you prefer, someone will either love it or hate. This forum should be used by new riders as guidelines not god-lines. This brand shit gets too deep sometimes...do some research, pick a board, and get on the hill as much as possible.


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## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

chomps1211 said:


> StAntonRider said:
> 
> 
> > Lol, when NS makes an RCR board I'll eat my bindings.
> ...


How many brands have not released another or anbupdated version of their first rocker offerring other than Arbor? System works, it's in fact the only full rocker worth riding in my experience. It's dialed and works exceptionally well. And for '16 they are introducing system camber, which so far has been working exceptionally well for me as well.

I am heavely wagering a camber comeback from NS for '17. My info has shown they are locked into RC as part of the patent agreement. Could be wrong, but the agreement is supposedly up for '17 and I do find it hard to believe they genuinely believe RC is the only profile worth producing. Hell, the Ripsaw came across to me as them trying super hard to make RC as cambered as possible. And I do know they are still producing special runs of full camber for certain shop emp and special customer. Either way, faith in RC as the best of both worlds is fast dying with more people riding Camrocks and realize its broader benefits.


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## deagol (Mar 26, 2014)

Nivek said:


> .... the Ripsaw came across to me as them trying super hard to make RC as cambered as possible. ....


It rides that way, too. Just spend a good half day on it comparing to the Chairman (board, not person). I am starting to love this board.....


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## BurtonAvenger (Aug 14, 2007)

deagol said:


> It rides that way, too. Just spend a good half day on it comparing to the Chairman (he'll tell you). I am starting to love this board.....


Fixed that for you.


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## JH84 (Nov 30, 2014)

I can't really say either, I've never rode a YES or Lib Tech board. 

I bought a 2012 NS Heritage - 158 and I just didn't like the way it rode. It's a good board for carving and running over things but it just felt dead to me. I thought it was boring to ride. It's just collecting dust in my room, I love the top-sheet though :facepalm1: If anyone in Denver is interested in it offer me a price =) I've rode it like 5 times, total. 

I actually need to get a new board, that flow I have is thrashed. I loved my old Burton Supermodel, but I quit buying their stuff when they did that channel thing.


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## deagol (Mar 26, 2014)

BA, I don't know what your axe to grind is with NS, but 

If you have something valid, go ahead and say so. Enough innuendo..


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## BurtonAvenger (Aug 14, 2007)

deagol said:


> BA, I don't know what your axe to grind is with NS, but
> 
> If you have something valid, go ahead and say so. Enough innuendo..


I've said that plenty. I just saw a post for some humor there that needed to be done. Don't cry about it.


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## StAntonRider (Dec 15, 2014)

BurtonAvenger said:


> I've said that plenty. I just saw a post for some humor there that needed to be done. Don't cry about it.


It's not really humorous. NS really isn't as good as people say it is. It's good, but the hype makes it a Lebron bandwagon. People just need to chill and realize it's 90 percent rider, 10 percent board. 

Coming from a person who bought an ultra aviator, fuck me.


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## Nolefan2011 (Mar 12, 2011)

NS makes overly damp planks that inspire average riders to go bigger because the thing will be stable in any chop. 

However, go send a Yes Greats off any lip, and your eyes will open to the world of freestyle snowboarding. It's enough to make you sell that NS. Go actually carve and feel the power generated out of a turn with a Yes Optimistic (whatever the equivalent is now), and throw away your NS.

NS makes GREAT starter boards at each tier in their brand for someone to gain confidence and go harder. With that said, they are glorified progression planks.

I do like Lib Tech.  Less plank like, more alive. TRS, Hot Knife, T Rice. Great boards. Two gripes. Magnatraction drag, and sacrificed pop for more wet layup. BUT, they at least have torsional flex and don't feel like you are riding a couple 2 x 4s strapped to your feet down the mountain. The Hot Knife actually generates some good power and pop as well, without feeling like a total plank.

I'd like to see Capita on this list. They are building some excellent boards these days, and saw they just built a brand new facility.


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## timmytard (Mar 19, 2009)

I like Gnu over Lib.

Same shit, different pile.

Cheaper & faster bases.

As far as Never Summer goes.

One of my all time favorite sticks is my NS Heritage X 156.
Nobody gave me this board, I bought it.
Just traded my new Skunk Ape 69 for a Chairman 64

I ride a fuckin' metric shit tonne of boards.:hairy:

I have a stack, a big stack, I haven't even got to try yet.

If I ride a board & it sucks ass, I'll tell you about.
I don't give a fuck who's board it is, if it sucks.
I want everyone to know it sucks.

There is no brand loyalty, no fanboyism.
A board gets one chance, one run really.
If it's shit it goes back to the rack, right then.
Plain & simple. Never to be ridden again

I have a Yes Optimistic, it's the only camrock board I've tried.
Here's a bit of it, haha, I have a thing for jumpin' fences.
I'm always pulling them out & moving them back a bit.
The snow always gets pushed up against them, making a nice lip.
Just perfect to launch over.

https://vimeo.com/



TT


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## Kink (Jan 6, 2015)

My current YES board is great, especially its sintered base. Pretty sturdy and holds wax great. On the other hand the sidewalls ding easily as fuck, not very happy with that.


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## StAntonRider (Dec 15, 2014)

Kink said:


> My current YES board is great, especially its sintered base. Pretty sturdy and holds wax great. On the other hand the sidewalls ding easily as fuck, not very happy with that.


YES is great, but for some reason they keep using sintered 2000, which break easily. I wouldn't say shittier, but the only upside is a little bit lighter.


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## timmytard (Mar 19, 2009)

Nolefan2011 said:


> NS makes overly damp planks that inspire average riders to go bigger because the thing will be stable in any chop.
> 
> However, go send a Yes Greats off any lip, and your eyes will open to the world of freestyle snowboarding. It's enough to make you sell that NS. Go actually carve and feel the power generated out of a turn with a Yes Optimistic (whatever the equivalent is now), and throw away your NS.
> 
> ...


Maybe you just still ride like a beginner?

Mine seems to handle this "Danger Permanently Closed" section, that I can never get anyone else to come in there with me, pretty well.

This was my first day back after blowin' out my knee,
There were no groomed runs, it was 2 feet deep.
It was too bumpy everywhere, I needed some fresh lines.
The Fluffy smooth kind.

https://vimeo.com/

This is the entrance, it gets nasty after this. 


TT


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## ShredLife (Feb 6, 2010)

jesus christ there is so much dumb shit being spewed in this thread.... you're basically all retards.


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## Nolefan2011 (Mar 12, 2011)

So Tard, you are happy with the pop and spring out of your NS? You can take any board into the danger closed section tard. Point was many people like the big damp plank to do it instead of riding something that can really send it along the way. The boards are dead because they add so much damn dampening so you'll duck the rope.


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