# Beginner snowboarder looking for advice



## TooNice (Feb 7, 2014)

Hi guys.

I was a (very regular) skier for many years before switching to snowboarding recently. 

I first started snowboarding two seasons ago but only for 2.5 days each season, and while I could do turns to some extent I never felt like I was 100% in control of those turns. I was also starting to wonder if I was really a "regular" (the goofy vs regular tests came up mixed). 

So far I've snowboarded twice this season. First day of the first time this season, I tried a goofy board. I don't think I managed a single turn on that stance with my right foot forward, yet managed rather well with my left foot forward. So I went back to regular again the next day. It probably makes no sense at all, but I felt like I had a bit more control doing turn with my left foot forward on a goofy board, but I decided to a regular board anyway. But I was starting to get puzzled by my lack of progress (by now, I had snowboarding for 7 days since the very first time). 

The first day of the second time this season, I joined a small group lesson, and the instructor instantly noticed that my boots were too loose. Thing is, I am a hiker, and when buying hiking shoes, it's common to one size up so that you can layer, and also compensate for the foot swelling after long distance walk and did the same with snowboarding shoes. As soon as I went down half a size, my control got much better, and down half another size (on a very battered rental shoes) and it did not feel nearly as tiring anymore and has become so much more fun. Now I can finally say for sure that I want to continue snowboarding, and plan to do more frequent and longer trips from now on.

This time I snowboarded for 5 days, and really worked on my form with basic turns. I had a bad back leaning habit, which still present on steeper slopes, but it is getting better. Once I have that down, I am wondering what I should work on next.

A lot of my peers wants to do jumps as soon as they can do regular turns in intermediate slopes. When I was learning how to ski though, we did not learn how to jump until my foundations were rock solid (as you'd expect when taught at school?). Long turns, short turns, parallel turns, carve turns etc. first taught long before we did jumps (actually I am pretty sure we were practising how to absorb bumps before jumps too). In the same vein, I was wondering if the next thing should be carving, switch riding, something that does not require the board to go off the ground.. or if indeed it is fine to work on basic jumps.

Last question, would you encourage taking paid lessons (group or 1-to-1)? And if so, until what stage?

Thanks


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## SkullAndXbones (Feb 24, 2014)

well first off, there's no such thing as a "goofy" or "regular" snowboard. the boards are all the same it's just a matter of how you set your bindings on them. second, stance is just a matter of preference in the same manner as being a lefty or righty. just pick which one is more comfortable or the less awkward of the 2. it's gonna take a while before you get half way decent. it takes a couple seasons just to get comfortable using both edges. and when i say seasons i mean going like 10+ times each year. i wouldn't suggest hitting jumps until you're entirely comfortable using both edges at a good rate of speed. as far as lessons go, i don't know because i never took lessons. you'll know when you're ready.


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## TooNice (Feb 7, 2014)

Thanks, figured as much. I remember that when skiing I only started doing jumps from toward the end of the second season, and at the time, I was skiing 5-7 days a week for 3 months. So yeah, I will consider myself a beginner for a long time to come. Guess I will just have to be patient and gradually improve my skills. 

Is it a good idea to practice riding switch early or is it better to leave that for later too? I am thinking that the more comfortable I get riding on a regular stance, the harder / less motivated I might be to learn how to ride switch later on so throwing a couple of switch practice now and then would be beneficial as my goal is to become a well rounder.


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

TooNice said:


> Is it a good idea to practice riding switch early or is it better to leave that for later too? I am thinking that the more comfortable I get riding on a regular stance, the harder / less motivated I might be to learn how to ride switch later on so throwing a couple of switch practice now and then would be beneficial as my goal is to become a well rounder.


Absolutely practice switch right from the beginning :thumbsup: Right now, turns are hard no matter which way. Better to develop the muscle memory for both ways right away. (I haven't and have very hard times to learn it now. It's such an embarrassing unnerving pita to go back and practice to slowly link turns switch when you could just turn and charge forward with ease )


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## SkullAndXbones (Feb 24, 2014)

i don't see problem with trying to ride switch right now. it'll probably be beneficial to you in the foreseeable future since you wanna do tricks and stuff. there's also not much of a problem with just riding regular right now. i think it's actually easier learning to ride switch when you've gotten good at riding regular because by that time you'll have a good feel for the board and will have the basic mechanics down. at that point it would be just learning to adapt to a little bit of awkwardness. whatever you do though, don't forget the most important rule of snowboarding......having fun. if you feel like riding switch then throw that bitch around and go for it.


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## Donutz (May 12, 2010)

I've taken one private lesson every season and it's always been useful. You'll find that you probably have some bad habits that can be corrected, and there may be techniques that you're not even aware of that you can be taught. Also, if you're feeling like you've plateau'd a bit, the instructor can take you out of your comfort zone.


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## TooNice (Feb 7, 2014)

Thanks for all the response so far. I will continue to simultaneously work on my regular and switch turns for a while then. I really want to get better and learn some jumps and tricks, but hopefully being patient and investing in building a strong foundations will be pay itself off in the long term 

I am not sure if this is the right place, but I would also like to ask a little about gear. Right now, I am not too bothered about buying a board (should I be?), and am thinking of sticking to rentals for a while.

Boots on the other hand, I think that I want to invest in those. I have small yet wide feet, and it is only during my latest trip last week that I realised both the importance of boots when it comes to control, and the fact that no rental boots I have tried so far, fitted me perfectly. To a greater or lesser extent, I could feel my heel lifting and that really tired my feet and affected my control.

The main issue is that I have small but wide feet, so the perfect size on a normal boot is going to be too uncomfortable at the front, yet going half-size up is going to leave enough of a gap that it is no longer a tight fit. I figured that buying my own shoes will ensure a perfect fit.. assuming of course that I buy the right shoes. Could someone familiar with snowboard boots suggest brands that lean towards the wider side of the spectrum, or offers a range for people with wider feet? I've never tried the Boa system, but I am quite keen on giving it a shot. 

Thanks again


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

A have a couple of friends who skied avidly and switched to snowboarding... one did it because pow+snowboarding is super, another just wanted the challenge. Both transitioned reasonably well.

Anyways... first thing you have to understand is BALANCE. This is not too important on skis, but is everything on a snowboard. Basically, on skis you are naturally balanced in all directions, on a snowboard you're unbalanced in the toe/heel direction.

In your case, I would take a group lesson to start with, see where you are in comparison to others, hear other people's problems and maybe apply them to yourself if/when needed. Then ride a few days and then go for a private lesson once you are clearer with your preferred style/terrain and the weak points of your riding... because you've skied, you will be much more aware what your weaknesses are, and a private lesson will really help you.

I did a private lesson first, and it was really good; but in hindsight, i would have definitely preferred group to begin, then a private to focus on specific techniques/weaknesses...

2cents from a relative beginner.

Good to see you strayed away from the darkside. Master Yoda would be proud.


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## t21 (Dec 29, 2010)

Glad to know that you are enjoying snowboarding. Stick with your plan with switch and park riding and for the boots question, i believe 32 brands cater to wider feet but i'm not sure of that. I have the 32 Focus Boa but my feet are not wide though it fits my feet well. BA(angrysnowboarder) is known as a former bootfitter so he might have some ideas for you. Snowboard will be cheaper by spring sales,but there are some websites that have sales now (Evo.com, backcountry,etc.) but we would need your stats(height,weight, preferred riding style) so we can provides inputs of what board could be good for you.:thumbsup:


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

TooNice said:


> The main issue is that I have small but wide feet, so the perfect size on a normal boot is going to be too uncomfortable at the front, yet going half-size up is going to leave enough of a gap that it is no longer a tight fit. I figured that buying my own shoes will ensure a perfect fit.. assuming of course that I buy the right shoes. Could someone familiar with snowboard boots suggest brands that lean towards the wider side of the spectrum, or offers a range for people with wider feet? I've never tried the Boa system, but I am quite keen on giving it a shot.


I'm not sure if it's the same with men's boots, but with women's, the Ride I have are rather narrow and K2 rather wide.
There's a boot faq sticky thread by wrath in the boots subforum you'll find plenty of good info


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## SkullAndXbones (Feb 24, 2014)

i was going to suggest 32 boots as well. i don't have much experience with them. i've only tried on one pair at the store but for some reason they were my first thought. go to your local shop and just try on different boots from all the different brands.


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## TooNice (Feb 7, 2014)

Thanks for the replies. I do plan on trying many boots before buying, but it's nice to have a starting point 

On the subject of board.. Though it might be a bit early to get my own board, it hasn't stopped me from reading about the subjects. I am one of those people who spend weeks if not months reading up before spending, as I am willing to spend quite a bit for quality.

I am 162cm, about 60kg and my feet are about 7.5 US. Based on what I've read, I need a pretty short board with a slim profile. This season I have been renting a 145cm board but having a look online, it seems that men's boards usually starts out longer. Will I have difficulty finding a board that is the right size for me?


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## speedjason (May 2, 2013)

TooNice said:


> Thanks for the replies. I do plan on trying many boots before buying, but it's nice to have a starting point
> 
> On the subject of board.. Though it might be a bit early to get my own board, it hasn't stopped me from reading about the subjects. I am one of those people who spend weeks if not months reading up before spending, as I am willing to spend quite a bit for quality.
> 
> I am 162cm, about 60kg and my feet are about 7.5 US. Based on what I've read, I need a pretty short board with a slim profile. This season I have been renting a 145cm board but having a look online, it seems that men's boards usually starts out longer. Will I have difficulty finding a board that is the right size for me?


you should be fine with a 150cm mid soft men's board.


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## TooNice (Feb 7, 2014)

Woes be me. Looks like I got my feet size completely wrong. I am nowhere near a 7.5 US, but a 6 US! The first online size converter I found got it all wrong. And it seems that it puts me strictly in the ladies department :laugh: For the sake of a comfortable ride, I am willing swallow my pride. The good thing about being in Japan, is that I get more "Asian fit" options (for wide feet).

My concern is that there might be other things to consider when buying a ladies boots as a guy. I have very small feet, but my legs / body is otherwise quite muscular (I do a lot of hiking), and I most likely weigh more than most women with similarly sized feet. Will I need to shoot for shoes that are stiffer (assuming women's boots are rated at different standard to men's boots)?

Is there anything I need to know in regards to shopping for ladies boots, and the impact to the rest of the system (binding, boards)?


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## Tarzanman (Dec 20, 2008)

Don't listen to these guys. I don't usually do this for just anyone, but I have some left over stock of goofy-footed, orthogonally cambered snowboards. These are not factory seconds... they are unused extras manufactured for the national team left over from the 2012 Winter Olympics in Wakanda.

I only have goofy-footed boards left, so I will sell one to you for a rock bottom price!

Man you're lucky! I wish I were you and about to get such a good deal on primo equipment!


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

TooNice said:


> Woes be me. Looks like I got my feet size completely wrong. I am nowhere near a 7.5 US, but a 6 US! The first online size converter I found got it all wrong. And it seems that it puts me strictly in the ladies department :laugh: For the sake of a comfortable ride, I am willing swallow my pride. The good thing about being in Japan, is that I get more "Asian fit" options (for wide feet).
> 
> My concern is that there might be other things to consider when buying a ladies boots as a guy. I have very small feet, but my legs / body is otherwise quite muscular (I do a lot of hiking), and I most likely weigh more than most women with similarly sized feet. Will I need to shoot for shoes that are stiffer (assuming women's boots are rated at different standard to men's boots)?
> 
> Is there anything I need to know in regards to shopping for ladies boots, and the impact to the rest of the system (binding, boards)?



No boot specific impact on board (other than small feet=narrow board), but on the binding selection. Women's boots generally have a shorter boot leg. Men's bindings generally have higher highbacks. Thus check, that the rim of the boot is higher than the highback of the bindings you'll get. My women's boots work perfectly fine with some men's bindings, with others not.

IIRC, Wrathfuldeity wears women's boots and has written posts on the topic <go search> 

BTW: be careful when searching for women's boots and using US sizes... Same numbers in US men's and US women's are different sizes :blink: your men's 6 would be a women's 7.5.


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## TooNice (Feb 7, 2014)

Thanks! I will take a look (at the other thread). Ah, I didn't know that US use a different system for men and women (bit odd to me but anyway). That would explain why I ended up with that 7.5 figure for 24cm (I am in Japan right now) - I must've looked at the ladies column ^^;

I plan to buy boots first, whatever fits best, and from there shop for whatever bindings works with the boots (and finally board). Are there boards from women (e.g. with slimmer profiles) or are regular boards fine with a 6M/7.5F?


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## poutanen (Dec 22, 2011)

TooNice said:


> But I was starting to get puzzled by my lack of progress (by now, I had snowboarding for 7 days since the very first time).
> 
> Last question, would you encourage taking paid lessons (group or 1-to-1)? And if so, until what stage?


If you only had sex twice a year for 3 years, you wouldn't get very good at it right!?! Don't beat yourself up on progress if you've only been out a couple days a year. If you're really interested in the sport, just get out more, that's the one SURE way to progress.

Lessons are obviously suggested. There is no point when you can stop taking lessons. I'm heading out this weekend to take a course on how to teach advanced boarders to be better... 

Boots need to be sized right, and right is probably a lot tighter than you've ever felt. Imagine skating in loose skates, or skiing in loose ski boots, that's what you're trying to do if you snowboard in loose boots!

Jumping, it's up to you, but I would encourage getting a strong handle on-piste before worrying about jumping. And learning to jump on little rollers on the snow is easier than learning in the park... At least it was for me.


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## TooNice (Feb 7, 2014)

Colourful analogy :laugh:

It wasn't so much about being good, but I was pitting myself against people who joined the same program, and snowboarded as little as I have. The faster learners were linking turns by the second day, and had far more control than I had on the fifth. Even the slower learners were starting to overtake me in control after the fifth day. And they got tired far less than I did even though fitness wise, I was one of the most active of the group. No one were carving down the slopes, we are all still beginners, but I felt that I was lagging behind the group.

But tightening the boots on the 8th day really made a breakthrough. I am still a beginner and will remain to be one for many season to come *but* suddenly I felt I had control. On the 9th day, I went half a size down (smallest they had) and it got better yet but my heel were lifting a lot and I tired me out. 11th day, I changed resort and went for a really battered traditional lace boots that was another half a size down. The boots looked terrible, but it reduced (but not eliminated) the heel lift it my control was again improved and I could snowboard for hours at a time without my feet killing me.

So yeah as you said, the boots had to be tighter than what I was used to / know is good for me from my hiking experience. With hiking, I had to size up. I learned that going not half, but an entire size up was beneficial for long distance (30+ km) due to the feet swelling after about 20km, and it also provided space for layering when going to colder places. With snowboard, it's completely different, but it was something I had not realised (I've skied/ice-skated for 7 years, but it was a couple of years back so I do not really recall how tight the boots were).

At any rate, yeah, the last five days of snowboarding had been really fun and I am now ready to commit. Hence the decision to invest in boots because drn, those really make a difference!


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## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

Hi, also an asian with small feet and 180 lbs....men size 7 and use size 8 women's boots both 32 focus boas and k2 contours with double boas...you will want the women's boots to be the high end stiffer ones...and two of my 4 boards are high end stiffer cambered women's boards. I don't care if its women's gear as long as it works...and I wear men's hot pink pants. So one of the important numbers to pay attention to, is the waist width of the board. I'd imagine you will want it to be under 25 cm and probably closer to 24 cm will be ideal. My actual preferred waist width is 24.5-75 but my pow charlie slasher 164 board is 26 cm which is very sluggish to go from edge to edge.


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## TooNice (Feb 7, 2014)

How do you find the 32 compared to the K2? Being in Japan may well limit my option (the last store to only had Nike as a two boa option for the ladies). But I may end up looking for/buying a pair of boots when I go to the US on holiday.


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## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

TooNice said:


> How do you find the 32 compared to the K2? Being in Japan may well limit my option (the last store to only had Nike as a two boa option for the ladies). But I may end up looking for/buying a pair of boots when I go to the US on holiday.


I've got over 7 years in 32's and only 1 day of splitboarding in k2...got the k2 cause they were way cheeeaaap and they fit.


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## TooNice (Feb 7, 2014)

@wrathfuldeity: Going back to the previous post, do you think that I would have trouble with a waist width of 24.8cm (keeping in mind that I am a men size 6 / women size 7.5)?

What do you think is going to be more noticeable, 6mm of waist width, or the camber profile?

I am asking this because I have narrowed down to two 149 all mountain freestyle board.

The first one is a men's board. Camber/Rocker/Camber with a waist width of 24.8cm.

The second one is a women's board. Rocker/Camber/Rocker with a waist width of 24.2cm.

Though I haven't tried either board (and have no mean to try them), I am leaning towards the first one, though I am slightly worried about the waist width..


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