# Boots in correct Mondo Size - Too small?



## jae (Nov 27, 2015)

if you read the thread closely, there is no way around shopping for boots except to try them all on. if all our feet were shaped exactly the same, we wouldn't have these problems. all feet are different. 

couple things you can try: 
get a heat fit. waiting for boots to pack out can be a bitch sometimes, especially if they don't fit correctly. 
you can try using new insoles or taking out and riding without them. 
try messing with your liners.


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## nickname55 (Feb 28, 2013)

Thanks, the problem is the liner i think. They are very thick. When i put my liners from my old boots in (which are thinner and 1 size bigger) it feels better. 
I will ride the new boots + new liners a couple more days and also try heat fit etc. If it still hurts then i will put in my stinky old forum liners :dry:


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## Winter_Lion (Nov 30, 2016)

Is that what Wired recommends for you? Did you also measure your width? Are you high arched, flat footed, are there any issues that are not addressed? Did you get heat fitted, did you try different liners? I also went through Wired's thread, we figured out that while I am a men's wide, but they don't make boots in my size 6 I had to move up to six and a half but even then I still had issues with my boots that were addressed by an REI boot fitter. We tried two different liners and then we heat fitted using thin socks. Since I just had my first run in them and even though they are half a size too big I still feel my boots are too small to walk in my toes are hitting the front of the shoes but on the board they are great.

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## nickname55 (Feb 28, 2013)

Width is good, its just the length that causes some pain after a full day riding. 



Winter_Lion said:


> I still feel my boots are too small to walk in my toes are hitting the front of the shoes but on the board they are great.


Thats someting i just don`t understand. When I`m snowboarding I`m not in riding position the whole day! Okay the boot should be mainly good for riding, but still okay for waiting at the lift or building a kicker. We aren`t racers...
Whats the benefit of toes hitting the front anyway? Why not have 5mm space? It should be possible to have a snug fit and no heel lift without touching the front, or am I wrong?


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## Nocturnal7x (Mar 6, 2015)

Clip your toenails recently?

Could help if not.


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## Argo (Feb 25, 2010)

Nocturnal7x said:


> Clip your toenails recently?
> 
> Could help if not.



I do cut my nails every day pretty much, should be a habit.... not only that but make sure you arent using some old ass thick socks that take up a hole shoe size..... One caveat that the sizer should have is the type of socks you wear. If you wear thick ass socks you should go a half size higher.....


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## Winter_Lion (Nov 30, 2016)

nickname55 said:


> Width is good, its just the length that causes some pain after a full day riding.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Lol, it was explained that snow boots are built like upside down sevens so, once your foot is inside the boot, kick down on the heel to ensure that your heels is firmly inserted into the back of the boot. Plus, when you get into riding position your foot will scoot back. There's another inch or two in the boot that isn't accessible in a normal walking position. I remember the kicking heel trick during my watering break this week it made the shoes this much more tolerable when walking.

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## SGboarder (Jun 24, 2012)

nickname55 said:


> Width is good, its just the length that causes some pain after a full day riding.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You're wrong. Snowboard/ski boots require a performance fit to *perform* properly. That is why there is a liner to take up the space and your toes should push into the soft liner material.


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

Hi Nick,

Let's see if we can get you sorted. Since we are joining your process a little late in the game please help us by backtracking a little. Please measure both your barefoot width and length and post photos of the measurements. We also need to know if the boots have been heat fit.

STOKED!


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## nickname55 (Feb 28, 2013)

Wiredsport said:


> Hi Nick,
> 
> Let's see if we can get you sorted. Since we are joining your process a little late in the game please help us by backtracking a little. Please measure both your barefoot width and length and post photos of the measurements. We also need to know if the boots have been heat fit.
> 
> STOKED!


Thanks for fast response! 
The boot is a deeluxe spark xv mondo size 27 ( I use it for splitboarding too)
When I step on the insoles I have about 5mm overhang. 
Anyway... its *not* the case that my toes do extremely hurt and that i have to stop riding during the day. But I feel a fairly strong pressure on my big toes and at the end of a full day riding the big toes do hurt and I feel great pleasure getting out of the boots. 
I`m not sure if I could ride 2 or 3 days in a row with that boots. My toesnails are trimmed and I wear very thin ski socks. The liner is the PF Model they are not supposed to be heat fitted. So no - I did not heat fit them. 

This is my left foot, its slightly larger (1-2mm) than my right foot


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

nickname55 said:


> Thanks for fast response!
> The boot is a deeluxe spark xv mondo size 27 ( I use it for splitboarding too)
> When I step on the insoles I have about 5mm overhang.
> Anyway... its *not* the case that my toes do extremely hurt and that i have to stop riding during the day. But I feel a fairly strong pressure on my big toes and at the end of a full day riding the big toes do hurt and I feel great pleasure getting out of the boots.
> ...


Hi Nick,

Those measurements would have you at a significantly wide (EE) width in a Mondo 270 (size 9) boot. But...

It is best if you measure without tracing the outline of your foot. That tends to "grow" the foot in all directions. Please remeasure using this method:

Please measure your barefoot width of both feet. If you could place the inside (medial side) of each foot against a wall and measure straight out to the wide point of the outside (lateral side) that would be awesome.

For foot length please cick your heel (barefoot please, no socks) back against a wall. Mark the floor exactly at the tip of your toe (the one that sticks out furthest - which toe this is will vary by rider). Measure from the mark on the floor to the wall. That is your foot length and is the only measurement that you will want to use. Measure in centimeters if possible, but if not, take inches and multiply by 2.54 (example: an 11.25 inch foot x 2.54 = 28.57 centimeters).


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## nickname55 (Feb 28, 2013)

Wiredsport said:


> Hi Nick,
> 
> Those measurements would have you at a significantly wide (EE) width in a Mondo 270 (size 9) boot. But...
> 
> ...


The measure of the foot length was done correct (heel against the wall) its still 26,8cm on both + - 1mm
But the measure of the width was done wrong. I did it again the correct way - Right foot 9,9cm, Left foot 10,00cm


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

nickname55 said:


> Thanks for fast response!
> The boot is a deeluxe spark xv mondo size 27 ( I use it for splitboarding too)
> The liner is the PF Model they are not supposed to be heat fitted. So no - I did not heat fit them.


How many days did you use it?

I've the same boot with PF liner. That liner packs out significantly. I've a 24.5 foot; got the 25 mondo cos the 24.5 felt too short when trying. Even the 25 felt very short in the beginning; toes hitting the front like you describe; after half a season riding n hiking I had wished I'd gotten the 24.5; liner packed out so much that my foot/heel began to slip; j bars n custom insoles with a good footbed did the trick for me; happily using the boot into its 3rd season.


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

nickname55 said:


> The measure of the foot length was done correct (heel against the wall) its still 26,8cm on both + - 1mm
> But the measure of the width was done wrong. I did it again the correct way - Right foot 9,9cm, Left foot 10,00cm


Got it. You are 1 mm over a "normal" D width. That is typically no problem to accommodate with a heat fit. It sounds like you have not had your heat fit done yet. I write it a lot but getting heat moldable liners heat fit should be considered mandatory . This will help you a lot. Also, what Neni has written is correct. Your boots will continue to break in. 

STOKED!


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

Wiredsport said:


> Got it. You are 1 mm over a "normal" D width. That is typically no problem to accommodate with a heat fit. It sounds like you have not had your heat fit done yet. I write it a lot but getting heat moldable liners heat fit should be considered mandatory . This will help you a lot. Also, what Neni has written is correct. Your boots will continue to break in.
> 
> STOKED!


The PF liner from Deeluxe is not made to be heat molded. It's a thicker liner type which molds to the foot by wearing (according to the Deeluxe prep) :dunno:

BTW, @Wiredsport: got my AT boots heat molded as you recommended and am very glad I did! They're so much more comfy now even though I _thought_ they were already comfy before molding  Once again, thanks!


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## nickname55 (Feb 28, 2013)

neni said:


> How many days did you use it?
> 
> I've the same boot with PF liner. That liner packs out significantly. I've a 24.5 foot; got the 25 mondo cos the 24.5 felt too short when trying. Even the 25 felt very short in the beginning; toes hitting the front like you describe; after half a season riding n hiking I had wished I'd gotten the 24.5; liner packed out so much that my foot/heel began to slip; j bars n custom insoles with a good footbed did the trick for me; happily using the boot into its 3rd season.


I used it about 10 days. 6-7 days splitboarding and 3 days riding. I also recognized that the pf liner packs out alot! When I first tried it on I thought it would be way too small, now i think its just a bit too small :/ but my toes do still hurt after a day riding.
When I bought the boots back then i noticed that they don`t come in "real" half sizes. The only difference between size 27 and 27,5 was the length of the insole. And size 28 the shell is one full cm longer. That felt a bit too big.


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

neni said:


> The PF liner from Deeluxe is not made to be heat molded. It's a thicker liner type which molds to the foot by wearing (according to the Deeluxe prep) :dunno:
> 
> BTW, @Wiredsport: got my AT boots heat molded as you recommended and am very glad I did! They're so much more comfy now even though I _thought_ they were already comfy before molding  Once again, thanks!


Hi Neni,

So stoked that this helped you! The Spark XV boot is offered with 3 liner options deeluxe.com : Spark XV NAVY . Two of them are branded Thermo Flex and are advertised as a Heat Moldable upgrade liner. Deeluxe takes the very commendable step of noting baking temperatures on their site, "*This liner is heat-formed to your foot. It is placed in a special oven that is heated between 90-110°C. While cooling, the liner is fitted to your foot and will retain its form. Consequently, we recommend you have your liners professionally molded to guarantee the perfect fit.*"

The most basic liner is not advertised as heat moldable but it almost certainly is. All EVA liners are heat moldable and I would be very surprised if they were using something other than EVA in that liner. I would push the rep on that. He may not know, but I bet he could find out for you .


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## nickname55 (Feb 28, 2013)

I talked to deeluxe last friday and they told me that it is possible to heat mold the performance flex liner. But in comparison to the thermo flex liner the molding process is possible only one time. So you have to be sure not to f*ck it up. 
They also said that i could try to remove the insole and ride without it. I think i will try this first and if it does not work i can still get the liner heat molded. 
Maybe i should have bought the boot with the thermo liner in the first place. It looks differently shaped. Even without heat molding it seems to offer a lot more space at the toes: 
TF liner deeluxe.com : Thermo Flex Liner BLACK
PF liner deeluxe.com : Peformance Flex Liner BLACK


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

nickname55 said:


> I talked to deeluxe last friday and they told me that it is possible to heat mold the performance flex liner. But in comparison to the thermo flex liner the molding process is possible only one time. So you have to be sure not to f*ck it up.


Hi Nick, Well...the part about it being heat moldable is correct. That is because it is an EVA liner. The part about it being only moldable once is incorrect. Again, that is because it is an EVA liner.  Do not hesitate to heat mold these. That should be your first step.


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## nickname55 (Feb 28, 2013)

Wiredsport said:


> Hi Nick, Well...the part about it being heat moldable is correct. That is because it is an EVA liner. The part about it being only moldable once is incorrect. Again, that is because it is an EVA liner.  Do not hesitate to heat mold these. That should be your first step.


Thanks, i think I`ll give it a try. Unfortunately with the PF Liner its not possible to take off the heel harness. Is that a problem? I`m not sure if 100 degree would harm the plastic part.
deeluxe.com : Peformance Flex Liner BLACK


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

nickname55 said:


> Thanks, i think I`ll give it a try. Unfortunately with the PF Liner its not possible to take off the heel harness. Is that a problem? I`m not sure if 100 degree would harm the plastic part.
> deeluxe.com : Peformance Flex Liner BLACK


You are good. The same harness and plastic part is used on their Thermoflex liners. Liner | deeluxe.com


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## nickname55 (Feb 28, 2013)

Wiredsport said:


> Hi Nick, Well...the part about it being heat moldable is correct. That is because it is an EVA liner. The part about it being only moldable once is incorrect. Again, that is because it is an EVA liner.  Do not hesitate to heat mold these. That should be your first step.


Wiredsport, you were right, I heatmolded the PF liners of my Deeluxe XV Boot some weeks ago and it worked out great. (12min 110 degree, no toe caps, standing still for 15 min)
They do fit perfect now! 

In the meantime I bought another deeluxe boot (a softer one for park riding, the XV is a stiff splitboardboot). They came with a heatmoldable liner (Thermoflex Premium Liner) - To my surprise the molding process did not work nearly as good as with the PF Liner / XV Boot. 
The material got molded but the whole liner did not stretch even a bit. So my toes are still pushing hard into the toe box. Not sure whats wrong with that liner...
I did 2 more molding processes but it did not help. Also the EVA seems to became a bit harder form the molding processes.


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

nickname55 said:


> Wiredsport, you were right, I heatmolded the PF liners of my Deeluxe XV Boot some weeks ago and it worked out great. (12min 110 degree, no toe caps, standing still for 15 min)
> They do fit perfect now!
> 
> In the meantime I bought another deeluxe boot (a softer one for park riding, the XV is a stiff splitboardboot). They came with a heatmoldable liner (Thermoflex Premium Liner) - To my surprise the molding process did not work nearly as good as with the PF Liner / XV Boot.
> ...


So stoked to hear that your initial boots are working for you!

For your heat fit on your second boots, please give me the details of what your boot fitter did. This is not sounding good.


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## nickname55 (Feb 28, 2013)

Wiredsport said:


> So stoked to hear that your initial boots are working for you!
> 
> For your heat fit on your second boots, please give me the details of what your boot fitter did. This is not sounding good.


Unfortunately I had to heatmold both of them at home. (No shops with ovens nearby)
I used my kitchenoven @ 110 °C for 12 minutes. Oven fan was turned on. 
After 12 minutes I took them out and immediately put the heel harness on and insoles in. Then I put the liner in the "shell" put my feet in banged heels on the floor and stood still for 15 min with knees slightly bent. 
As said before my first liners (Deeluxe PF Liner) turned out perfect! So I did the same process for the new one too (Deeluxe TFP Liner). 
There was one strange thing I noticed during the molding process with the TFP Liner: while I stood still and waited for the liner to cool down I noticed that the more it cooled down the more pressure I felt on my toes. 
It did not keep the shape / legth of my feet during the cooling process like the PF liner did. It kinda shrinked back to its original length.


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

nickname55 said:


> Unfortunately I had to heatmold both of them at home. (No shops with ovens nearby)
> I used my kitchenoven @ 110 °C for 12 minutes. Oven fan was turned on.


Got it. stiffening of the liner comes from overheating. Unfortunately, home oven temperatures are highly unreliable. What you are describing is exactly the behavior of an overcooked liner. It contracts and stiffens heavily during cooling. Sadly, there are no steps to correct for a hardened liner.


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