# Am I layering wrong?



## supern00b (Jan 27, 2020)

Not sure if I'm layering right. I always use a lightweight down midlayer which insulates well, but I end up sweating up a storm after the first run.

Does anyone have advice regarding when to use down vs a thicker poly/wool midlayer?


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## drblast (Feb 28, 2017)

I've used down once, and it was well below zero, windy and snowing on the top of Blackcomb. Nothing was too warm that day.

Otherwise, down is overkill. If I'm doing the mid-layer/shell thing, I have the thin poly Patagonia vest (Nano? I think?) that I use that is warm enough down to 20F. Below 20F I have a very thin North Face full puffy from Costco that is essentially the same thing with sleeves. But that's rare around here.

I have an insulated jacket that I don't use a mid-layer with that works for just about every resort condition around here if I'm not working too hard. But the vest/shell combo is what I use if I go alone or with friends who ride as non-stop as I do.

Also it depends on your body type; I have a friend who is a rock climber with essentially zero body fat and he's never warm enough. I've learned not to layer like him.


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## Phedder (Sep 13, 2014)

Yeah I'll only use down below -20C. Otherwise it's either a merino base layer + fleece midlayer, or on colder days I have Arcteryx Rho AR (new favorite base layers, thick fleece as far as baselayers go, super warm and wicks very well) plus a breathable synthetic insulation (Patagonia Nano Air). 

Down just doesn't breathe very well, and it's amazing at retaining heat, especially for it's weight to warm ratio. Keep it for the coldest days when you know you're never going to be too hot, and instead try find a decent fleece midlayer for most days, and a breathable puffy insulation for cold but not coldest days. Patagonia Nano or Nano air, Arcteryx Atom or Proton, North Face thermoball etc. Every outdoor company should have at least one or two non-down puffy style jackets.


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## supern00b (Jan 27, 2020)

drblast said:


> I've used down once, and it was well below zero, windy and snowing on the top of Blackcomb. Nothing was too warm that day.
> 
> Otherwise, down is overkill. If I'm doing the mid-layer/shell thing, I have the thin poly Patagonia vest (Nano? I think?) that I use that is warm enough down to 20F. Below 20F I have a very thin North Face full puffy from Costco that is essentially the same thing with sleeves. But that's rare around here.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the insight. Would a northface fleece work as a midlayer for temps of 20F+ ?


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## supern00b (Jan 27, 2020)

Phedder said:


> Yeah I'll only use down below -20C. Otherwise it's either a merino base layer + fleece midlayer, or on colder days I have Arcteryx Rho AR (new favorite base layers, thick fleece as far as baselayers go, super warm and wicks very well) plus a breathable synthetic insulation (Patagonia Nano Air).
> 
> Down just doesn't breathe very well, and it's amazing at retaining heat, especially for it's weight to warm ratio. Keep it for the coldest days when you know you're never going to be too hot, and instead try find a decent fleece midlayer for most days, and a breathable puffy insulation for cold but not coldest days. Patagonia Nano or Nano air, Arcteryx Atom or Proton, North Face thermoball etc. Every outdoor company should have at least one or two non-down puffy style jackets.


Do you use a shell jacket in any of these instances?


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## WigMar (Mar 17, 2019)

I like to layer under a shell. I only break out the down if it's going to be really cold. I've found wool layers close to the skin are more breathable and comfortable. I'm looking to be a little chilled at the end of a lift ride, but I really don't like overheating.


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## pabstbluribbin (Nov 26, 2019)

drblast said:


> Also it depends on your body type; I have a friend who is a rock climber with essentially zero body fat and he's never warm enough. I've learned not to layer like him.


I echo this because I am that guy. I really believe in layering, but I use a thin long sleeve UA top, with a hooded thermal over (Patagonia R1...possibly the best piece of clothing I own) then a down jacket over that and a rain jacket over it..mostly for wind proofing. I shed the down jacket when it’s warmer because it’s easy to take off and can be smushed in my pack better than anything.


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## Phedder (Sep 13, 2014)

supern00b said:


> Do you use a shell jacket in any of these instances?


Oh yeah always an outer jacket for water/windproofing, for the previous 5 seasons it was a shell. This season I finally replaced my riding shell and now my jacket has a very light level of insulation in it, barely notice a warmth difference as my old shell was very heavy/thick face fabric anyway.

I can get away with just the Rho AR +Jacket comfortably to -10C or so, but I usually wear a lighter base layer + fleece midlayer with a chest pocket instead to have somewhere to keep my phone warmer so it doesn't die. If I'll only be riding for 2-3 hours and it's not bitterly cold my phone's fine in the jackets chest pocket.


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## Donutz (May 12, 2010)

I always use a merino wool baselayer, and on colder days I have a zip-up merino midlayer. But today at Whistler it was -9c first thing, so I added a Burton fleece neck warmer that I had in a drawer. Just having that thing on, keeping my body heat from leaking up around my neck, made a huge difference. And when things warmed up, it fit nicely in my goggle pocket. So that's my newest layering item for cold days.


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## Kijima (Mar 3, 2019)

For the body I use merino-fleece-shell.
For the hands, merino glove liners inside mitts.
Wool socks in boots that aren't too tight across the top of the foot. 
And when it gets really cold take a backpack, they keep your back warm.


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## supern00b (Jan 27, 2020)

Kijima said:


> For the body I use merino-fleece-shell.
> For the hands, merino glove liners inside mitts.
> Wool socks in boots that aren't too tight across the top of the foot.
> And when it gets really cold take a backpack, they keep your back warm.


I gotta look into merino. I've been using synthetic shirts lately, they seem to keep me dry, but not rly warm


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## kimchijajonshim (Aug 19, 2007)

If you run warm and sweaty, down sucks. You want synthetic insulation. 

The only time I use down layers snowboarding is splitboarding for as a ridgetop puffy when I'm stationary. If I'm moving at all, down is overkill.

But layering is super personal. Both to where you ride and your personal temperature. I run warm and can get away with a base layer most days in Tahoe, maybe the occasional active insulation midlayer. My wife sometimes wear 2 separate fleece midlayers in the exact same conditions. If I rode in Wyoming or Colorado, I'd dress warmer.


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## Scalpelman (Dec 5, 2017)

Layers layers. Always a base layer that varies in thickness depending on the temps. As above merino is most comfortable. I generally wear my base layer under an insulated shell. If it’s really cold I’ll add a fleece shirt. But I like to run cool. Don’t like to sweat too much in general. It just freezes on the lift. I’m usually going balls out all day so I keep myself warm.


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## ridethecliche (Feb 27, 2019)

supern00b said:


> I gotta look into merino. I've been using synthetic shirts lately, they seem to keep me dry, but not rly warm


Look at uniqlos Baselayers. They're priced very well and the brushed fleece heat tech LS shirts are fantastic. I use the heat tech tights as well.


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## Mike256 (Oct 13, 2013)

You need a few options and check your forecast before layering. Its specific to each person so there is no perfect setup for all people.

I use a thermoball vest, if its to cold for that i use a long sleeve light fleece, if its to cold for that i use both.


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## MrDavey2Shoes (Mar 5, 2018)

I wear two Uniqlo base layers and a beat up old flannel shirt. On the really cold days I’ll add a third base layer. Then it’s a bib and shell. Fully aware I’m doing it wrong, but it works for me.

Legs are a Uniqlo base layer and the thinnest wool sock I can find. I like euro socks.


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## kimchijajonshim (Aug 19, 2007)

Uniqlo Heat Tech makes good basic. Best bang for buck out there on a budget. That said, I much prefer proper technical base layers (either synthetic or Merino) and would recommend it if you can afford it.


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## smellysell (Oct 29, 2018)

It's really personal, I would say. It gets REALLY cold here, and I never need more than a base layer, fleece, and a shell. Others I'm sure would freeze at sub zero Farenheit temps that way, I get a little cold by the end of a lift ride. Think the key is a lot of options. I have a variety of different weight mid layers depending on conditions.


Sent from my Pixel 5 using Tapatalk


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## Craig64 (Jul 16, 2015)

supern00b said:


> Am I layering wrong?


Yes


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

Merino as base layer is the best option. Costs a bit, but it’s good invested money. They last years. Big advantage is that they don't get that funky smell syntethic shirts do after few hours. 

Down I only use if below -20°C windy and overcast. The down jacket is always in the backpack to have a backup to keep me warm during breaks or après, however.

If you wear a backpack, the Black Diamond Deployment hoody jacket is a real good midlayer for cold days. It is insulated at the upper arms and chest, but thin at the back and underarms. Regulates heat very well. Dunno if the model is still called that way, mine is some years old, but they sure have a something equal in the current line-up.


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## Jack87 (Jan 9, 2021)

Good question I guess each person is different. I wear wool light weight ski socks to just below my knees, my regular synthetic boxers, Burton Impact shorts and some knee pads. Sessions snowpants that are essentially a shell little to no insulation and open vents.

Haven't had issues being too cold at all below my waist. 

Sessions Jacket that is more or less a shell with little insulation. Wool long sleeve t shirt as my base layer it's mostly designed for summer hiking but works well for me. That's it! I'm comfortable down to about 18 degrees like that. Any colder I have a light weight dakine hoody I throw on as a mid layer. Designed for the beach but I like it. I also carry another mid layer got from Costco Hi-Tech I think is the brand. It's simple not think but a bit more insulation and occasionally will throw it on often times not though.

I get hot and sweaty to easily which then will make me cold from being wet. So I am warmer the less I sweat so I wear as little as I possibly can to prevent sweating but have my backpack with the mid layer just in case conditions change on the mountain.


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## bob2356 (Jul 13, 2012)

Jack87 said:


> Good question I guess each person is different. I wear wool light weight ski socks to just below my knees, my regular synthetic boxers, Burton Impact shorts and some knee pads. Sessions snowpants that are essentially a shell little to no insulation and open vents.
> 
> Haven't had issues being too cold at all below my waist.
> 
> ...


You shouldn't be cold from being wet with wool layers. That's the big advantage to wool. It retains it's insulating properties when wet. That being said I wear a cotton turtleneck with wool over it since I can't stand wool or synthetics on my skin. It gets wet but the wool wicks it away pretty well. For super cold days I've got a wool shirt so thick and heavy that all my buds call it the weight belt.


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