# Mondo sizing



## Jkb818 (Sep 28, 2019)

So I measured my feet and I’m size 26 mondo. Which is size 8 men’s US? I wear a size 10 boot now. Does this mean I’m really supposed to fit in a size 8?! That seems insane to me. I feel like I’d be lucky to fit in a size 9...have I really been wearing my boots this oversized for all these years? The boots I’m looking at now are Burton Photons by the way...


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## Motogp990 (Mar 10, 2013)

In not so many words, yes.

I wear size 9 boots. A few years ago I was wearing 12s until I learnt how boots are supposed to fit.

That being said, depending on how many days a year you ride, I feel having the "optimum" fit may not be necessary.


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## Jkb818 (Sep 28, 2019)

Motogp990 said:


> In not so many words, yes.
> 
> I wear size 9 boots. A few years ago I was wearing 12s until I learnt how boots are supposed to fit.
> 
> That being said, depending on how many days a year you ride, I feel having the "optimum" fit may not be necessary.


 my mind is kinda blown by this ? .... I ride like 50+ days a season


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## Motogp990 (Mar 10, 2013)

Jkb818 said:


> my mind is kinda blown by this ? .... I ride like 50+ days a season


50+, I'd go for it. And i think you'll be pleasantly surprised when you wear correct mondo size boots. I was skeptical as well.


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## freshy (Nov 18, 2009)

Jkb818 said:


> So I measured my feet and I’m size 26 mondo. Which is size 8 men’s US? I wear a size 10 boot now. Does this mean I’m really supposed to fit in a size 8?! That seems insane to me. I feel like I’d be lucky to fit in a size 9...have I really been wearing my boots this oversized for all these years? The boots I’m looking at now are Burton Photons by the way...


Maybe your feet are also wide. I have compensated with extra length to get the comfy width. With wide boots you don't need to do that anymore. Also measure across the widest part of your foot and you'll find you width with a letter designation. If you PM Wiredsport or if he happens to see this he'll help you out I'm sure.

But I hear you, it's impossible to think you'll fit in some boots, but when they pack out you'll be wishing you went down at least half a size or more. That is if they fit your foot shape cause sometimes they just will never feel good.


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## Jkb818 (Sep 28, 2019)

freshy said:


> Jkb818 said:
> 
> 
> > So I measured my feet and I’m size 26 mondo. Which is size 8 men’s US? I wear a size 10 boot now. Does this mean I’m really supposed to fit in a size 8?! That seems insane to me. I feel like I’d be lucky to fit in a size 9...have I really been wearing my boots this oversized for all these years? The boots I’m looking at now are Burton Photons by the way...
> ...


 10cm considered wide with a 26 mondo?


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## Doraibu (Aug 13, 2017)

Jkb818 said:


> So I measured my feet and I’m size 26 mondo. Which is size 8 men’s US? I wear a size 10 boot now. Does this mean I’m really supposed to fit in a size 8?! That seems insane to me. I feel like I’d be lucky to fit in a size 9...have I really been wearing my boots this oversized for all these years? The boots I’m looking at now are Burton Photons by the way...


You won’t fit because you haven’t found the right mould. Fuck burton if it doesn’t fit you. Go try out everything else out there. You’d be amazed how foot pain issues goes away by sizing down to your right size than sizing up to what the shop keeper is trying to sell you


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

Jkb818 said:


> 10cm considered wide with a 26 mondo?


Hi Jkb,

Yes, 10 cm is an EE width at your size. This is 2 width sizes wider than a "standard" D width. Wide feet are a very common reason why riders end up in boots that are too long. While no brand currently produces boots specificaly for EE width, Burton does produce the Ruler Wide and the Photon Wide which are both designed for EEE width. Those will be excellent choices for you in Mondopoint 260 or size 8 US in snowboard boots. This will have a very positive effect on your riding!


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## Jkb818 (Sep 28, 2019)

Wiredsport said:


> Jkb818 said:
> 
> 
> > 10cm considered wide with a 26 mondo?
> ...


 That’s pretty wild! I’m going from a size 10 to a size 8 wide huh? Very curious to try and see how they feel. Such a huge departure from what I’ve been riding for the last 2 decades.


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## Wesley Hunt (Feb 11, 2018)

I was riding size 7.5 boots (burton 2008), dropped down to size 6 last year after measuring & wiresports help. I don't know how I snowboarded so long without the right size - probably just thick socks, jbars, and cranking down bindings


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

Wesley Hunt said:


> I was riding size 7.5 boots (burton 2008), dropped down to size 6 last year after measuring & wiresports help. I don't know how I snowboarded so long without the right size - probably just *thick socks, jbars, and cranking down bindings*


Right, lol, me too. Byebye cranking and heel lift; welcome blood circulation.

Wide feet here, too. Just one size for me, tho, but I remember how I couldn't believe neither that I could ever fit into smaller boots n argued with Wired that no, I couldn't... well... I could. And glad I did. 

OP, you're in good company 

(I bet, Wired will open a bottle and have a satisfied drink and smile when he reads this thread)


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## MrDavey2Shoes (Mar 5, 2018)

I hate boots. Will be trying my 4th pair in 3 seasons lol


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

Jkb818 said:


> That’s pretty wild! I’m going from a size 10 to a size 8 wide huh? Very curious to try and see how they feel. Such a huge departure from what I’ve been riding for the last 2 decades.


Yes, but not just any Wide model. Most Wide models (there are very few) will not fit EE width.


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## Jkb818 (Sep 28, 2019)

Wiredsport said:


> Yes, but not just any Wide model. Most Wide models (there are very few) will not fit EE width.


Yeah i already had my eyes on Photons which is convenient. Actually already had bought a pair that are sitting brand new in the box. Those are size 10 though. I just happened to get feedback from another member when i was asking about board size recommendations that I might want to rethink my boot size. Which led me down this rabbit hole of learning more about this topic and being open minded to the fact that maybe i've been buying the wrong size boots for a long, long, long time. :laugh2:


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## Jkb818 (Sep 28, 2019)

Ordered a pair of size 8 and 8.5 photons in wide today. Figured might as well get a 8.5 just in case...i'll report back with my findings. measured my feet again just to make sure and i'm def 26 X 10 cm. Which according to you guys is a size 8 in wide. not the size 10s i've been wearing since i was like 17 years old...i'm 40 now!


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

Hi JKB,

26.0 is size 8 (not 8.5). Have your heat fit on those done right away and have a great season shredding it up. 

STOKED!


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## Jkb818 (Sep 28, 2019)

Wiredsport said:


> Hi JKB,
> 
> 26.0 is size 8 (not 8.5). Have your heat fit on those done right away and have a great season shredding it up.
> 
> STOKED!


 so cancel the 8.5s as far as you’re concerned?


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

Jkb818 said:


> so cancel the 8.5s as far as you’re concerned?


Yes 

STOKED!


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## Jkb818 (Sep 28, 2019)

ok so i'm wearing the boots right now...what is a good way to know for sure that i'm not buying boots that will kill me? i will say that at the moment the right boot feels more snug than i'm used but doesnt really hurt. the left one is not really feeling so good. maybe i didnt measure the left foot properly. UPDATE: i never cancelled the 8.5 Wide Photon order and trying those on now too. Left foot feels better but still pretty snug. open to suggestions and guidance!


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## Motogp990 (Mar 10, 2013)

If you stand in your snowboard stance with your knees bent and ankles flexed as if you're riding, it should give you a more accurate feel.

If you stand stiff legged your toes should touch the liner but when in snowboard stance it should only barely graze the liner.

If that's the case, once your boot breaks in, I dont think you'll have any issues with comfort.

Also, make sure your boots are properly tightened. If you wear them loose because you think itll give you a more comfortable fit, you'll regret it big time. You'll get hammer toes because your loose boots aren't holding your foot properly and itll be painful.


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

Jkb818 said:


> ok so i'm wearing the boots right now...what is a good way to know for sure that i'm not buying boots that will kill me? i will say that at the moment the right boot feels more snug than i'm used but doesnt really hurt. the left one is not really feeling so good. maybe i didnt measure the left foot properly. UPDATE: i never cancelled the 8.5 Wide Photon order and trying those on now too. Left foot feels better but still pretty snug. open to suggestions and guidance!


Hi,

Have you had your heat fit done?


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## Jkb818 (Sep 28, 2019)

Wiredsport said:


> Hi,
> 
> Have you had your heat fit done?


 no I haven’t...can I do that and still return them if they don’t fit right? What are proper steps for heat molding?


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

Jkb818 said:


> no I haven’t...can I do that and still return them if they don’t fit right? What are proper steps for heat molding?


This is your size. You need to have your heat fit done. That will not affect return but you do not need to return. What you have described is correct.


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## Jkb818 (Sep 28, 2019)

Tried remeasuring and i think i might be closer to 26.7cm length and 9.1cm width....where would that put me? size 9 normal width?


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

Jkb818 said:


> Tried remeasuring and i think i might be closer to 26.7cm length and 9.1cm width....where would that put me? size 9 normal width?


You will want to post up your 4 barefoot measurement images (2 length and 2 width) showing your whole foot in each, the wall and your ruler.


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## Jkb818 (Sep 28, 2019)

pics of feet added! 

based off what i can see it looks like:

26.5 X 9 for my left foot 

26.3ish X 9.4 for my right.

seem right to you?


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

Jkb818 said:


> pics of feet added!
> 
> based off what i can see it looks like:
> 
> ...


Yes, that does look correct. That changes things a lot. 26.5 cm is Mondo 265 or size 8.5 US in snowboard boots. 9.4 mm is a standard D width. 

STOKED!


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## Jkb818 (Sep 28, 2019)

Thanks man! I’ll try some this weekend. No matter what I’m determined to downsize from the size 10s I had before.


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## Jkb818 (Sep 28, 2019)

Just wanted to provide an update on my progress went to a professional boot fitter today brought the 9 1/2 size photons with me that felt like they were the best fit after trying every possible size. He confirmed that going down even half a size more would have my feet extending beyond the footbed. He also confirmed I was a 265 mondo but the photons weren’t designed exactly to Mondo scale. Which I could clearly see by the footbed. So ultimately we determined the boots were a good match but a custom footbed would make sense since I have high arches that heat molding the button beds wouldn’t solve. End of story. ??


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

Jkb818 said:


> Just wanted to provide an update on my progress went to a professional boot fitter today brought the 9 1/2 size photons with me that felt like they were the best fit after trying every possible size. He confirmed that going down even half a size more would have my feet extending beyond the footbed. He also confirmed I was a 265 mondo but the photons weren’t designed exactly to Mondo scale. Which I could clearly see by the footbed. So ultimately we determined the boots were a good match but a custom footbed would make sense since I have high arches that heat molding the button beds wouldn’t solve. End of story. ??


Hi JKB,

Sadly, you have been given some bad advice on all of those issues. Your feet will and should always extend past the insert (footbed). That is how all snowboard boots are designed. In a correctly fit snowboard boot your foot will overhang the insert (footbed) by ~ 1cm. That is what allows your foot to pressure into the compliant materials of the liner. If that is not the case the boot is too large. The Photons and all Burton snowboard boots (all snowboard and ski boots) are designed to the Mondopoint standard. You can confirm this by visiting the Burton site and viewing their size chart.

STOKED!


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## Jkb818 (Sep 28, 2019)

Now my brain is twisted like a pretzel! ?


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

Jkb818 said:


> Now my brain is twisted like a pretzel! ?


Hah! You are actually a very easy fit. You are an 8.5 in snowboard boots at a normal width. All brands produce that. I know that it is an adjustment for you but I am being firm because I know that the sooner you accept this the happier you will be. 

STOKED!


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## Jkb818 (Sep 28, 2019)

Is the custom foot bed that better supports my arches a good idea?


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

Not to begin with. When riders move to their correct Mondopoint size they often find that aftermarket solutions are not required. Find your baseline first and then modify if it is still needed.

STOKED!


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## Jkb818 (Sep 28, 2019)

You are of the opinion that first thing you should do is get the heat moulding done not let boots and naturally mould from riding?


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

Jkb818 said:


> You are of the opinion that first thing you should do is get the heat moulding done not let boots and naturally mould from riding?


The two processes are entirely different. Riding will only break in a boot. It will never mold it. Heat molding should be done immediately.

STOKED!


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## Jkb818 (Sep 28, 2019)

@Wiredsport Ok cool...last question I think. More board related...but you clearly know your stuff. I’m 140-145lbs and torn between the 147 and 150 size lib tech orca. What would you recommend based off my boot size and weight? Their sizing chart is kind of useless. Thanks!!!


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## Jkb818 (Sep 28, 2019)

@Wiredsport just wanna say thanks for guidance on the boots. Couldn’t get myself to go all the way to a 8.5 but did buy 9s instead of the 10s I started with. After two days of riding I can tell these are going to be money. Maybe next time I buy boots I’ll go all the way with the 8.5


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## Oea232524 (Jan 8, 2021)

Hi wiredsport,

you seem to be the premier expert in these forums so hoping you can help me. My flexibility isn’t what it used to be so I picked up a pair of burton step on bindings with photons last year. Had only one 3 day trip and for the whole trip after I had been on mountain for just short time my pinky toes started to really hurt (I ride regular and left foot was worse than right). I want to love this setup but can’t get over the pain. I have an orthodic in the shoes riding a size 10 regular width. I did the mondo measurements and came up with 26.9 and 10cm for left foot, 27.3 and 9.9 right foot. My stance is +21 and -12. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.


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## WigMar (Mar 17, 2019)

Oea232524 said:


> Hi wiredsport,
> 
> you seem to be the premier expert in these forums so hoping you can help me. My flexibility isn’t what it used to be so I picked up a pair of burton step on bindings with photons last year. Had only one 3 day trip and for the whole trip after I had been on mountain for just short time my pinky toes started to really hurt (I ride regular and left foot was worse than right). I want to love this setup but can’t get over the pain. I have an orthodic in the shoes riding a size 10 regular width. I did the mondo measurements and came up with 26.9 and 10cm for left foot, 27.3 and 9.9 right foot. My stance is +21 and -12. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.


This little toe hot spot is a known problem with step ons. What size are you currently in? Have you heat molded the boots yet? Check out this thread for a possible solution.


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

Hi Oea,

26.9 cm is Mondopoint 270 or size 9 in snowboard boots, 27.3 cm is Mondopoint 275 or size 9.5 US in snowboard boots. 10 cm is E width which requires a wide boot at these sizes. The suggested boot would be the Salomon Dialogue Wide or Synapse Wide in size size 9.5 as those are both designed for E width. Going too large in the step-on boots is problematic because there are some common discomfort points with those boots and they are worse with any foot motion. This also gets worse as the boots pack in and become roomier. Your smaller foot is a full Mondo size smaller that your boot.

STOKED!


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## Oea232524 (Jan 8, 2021)

Wiredsport said:


> Hi Oea,
> 
> 26.9 cm is Mondopoint 270 or size 9 in snowboard boots, 27.3 cm is Mondopoint 275 or size 9.5 US in snowboard boots. 10 cm is E width which requires a wide boot at these sizes. The suggested boot would be the Salomon Dialogue Wide or Synapse Wide in size size 9.5 as those are both designed for E width. Going too large in the step-on boots is problematic because there are some common discomfort points with those boots and they are worse with any foot motion. This also gets worse as the boots pack in and become roomier. Your smaller foot is a full Mondo size smaller that your boot.
> 
> STOKED!


Would those Solomon boots be compatible with the burton step on bindings or would I have to buy a new setup?


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## Oea232524 (Jan 8, 2021)

Oea232524 said:


> Would those Solomon boots be compatible with the burton step on bindings or would I have to buy a new setup?





Wiredsport said:


> Hi Oea,
> 
> 26.9 cm is Mondopoint 270 or size 9 in snowboard boots, 27.3 cm is Mondopoint 275 or size 9.5 US in snowboard boots. 10 cm is E width which requires a wide boot at these sizes. The suggested boot would be the Salomon Dialogue Wide or Synapse Wide in size size 9.5 as those are both designed for E width. Going too large in the step-on boots is problematic because there are some common discomfort points with those boots and they are worse with any foot motion. This also gets worse as the boots pack in and become roomier. Your smaller foot is a full Mondo size smaller that your boot.
> 
> STOKED!


actually from my quick search it looks like those boots would not work with step on. Would you not suggest going down a size and wide in the Burton’s? Think I’ll continue to have problems with their product?


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

They are not. Burton's Wide boots are EEE width so those are not a strong option. The Salomon boots would be my top suggestion should you find the current Burton boots too uncomfortable. Going down a half size in standard width will not answer the width issue which will likely make that toe issue worse.


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## RayzTheRoof (Mar 10, 2014)

I'm a bit late here but I'd take sizing of any form with a grain of salt, because fit can always be different from boot to boot. I'm supposed to be a size 7 if I use my Mondo size. Yet I can barely push my foot into any 7.5 boots without losing a foot to circulation problems. So I usually go for 8s. 24.5cm is my Mondo length last I measured, but 8 on a Brannock device. I dunno


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## Snow Hound (Jul 21, 2012)

RayzTheRoof said:


> I'm a bit late here but I'd take sizing of any form with a grain of salt, because fit can always be different from boot to boot. I'm supposed to be a size 7 if I use my Mondo size. Yet I can barely push my foot into any 7.5 boots without losing a foot to circulation problems. So I usually go for 8s. 24.5cm is my Mondo length last I measured, but 8 on a Brannock device. I dunno


Have you measured the width? I'm guessing your feet are wide and that's the reason you can't get into your mondo size.


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## RayzTheRoof (Mar 10, 2014)

Snow Hound said:


> Have you measured the width? I'm guessing your feet are wide and that's the reason you can't get into your mondo size.


My feet are slightly wide. But I mean my toes curl way too uncomfortably in 7.5s that I've tried on, I couldn't imagine 7.


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## RayzTheRoof (Mar 10, 2014)

Apparently my cm measurement is 24.8cm, which is size 7. I can't imagine squeezing into a size 7 anything.


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## Snow Hound (Jul 21, 2012)

RayzTheRoof said:


> My feet are slightly wide. But I mean my toes curl way too uncomfortably in 7.5s that I've tried on, I couldn't imagine 7.


You see I've been reading these forums for 12+ years now and have seen literally hundreds of riders come through and one way or another end up in their mondo size (myself included). The biggest hurdle, and I'm not saying there aren't many others, seems to be acceptance. Maybe you're special? I really don't know. Maybe you need to try some wides?


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## RayzTheRoof (Mar 10, 2014)

I'm definitely not special and want a 7.5 pair, but at this point if I return my brand new unworn 8s and order a smaller pair I'm losing even more time in an already shitty season. I don't know how much a boot will pack out beforehand and some barely do at all apparently (I've read that about the Infuse and tm-3 for example). And once heat molded you can't really return a pair. I found the perfect boot for my heel so far, but I can't get a 7.5 for at least a couple weeks unless I want to pay $40 shipping


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

Hi Rayz,

Thanks for posting. It is really critical that we get your length and width measurements for each foot. We can definitely get you into the correct size but it does take those 4 pieces of info. I can tell that this has caused you some irritation so it is worth taking a bit of time to get this right. Please post images of all 4 barefoot measurements being taken. 

STOKED!

Please measure your feet using this method:

Kick your heel (barefoot please, no socks) back against a wall. Mark the floor exactly at the tip of your toe (the one that sticks out furthest - which toe this is will vary by rider). Measure from the mark on the floor to the wall. That is your foot length and is the only measurement that you will want to use. Measure in centimeters if possible, but if not, take inches and multiply by 2.54 (example: an 11.25 inch foot x 2.54 = 28.57 centimeters). For width please place the inside (medial side) of your foot against a wall. Please then measure from the wall out to the widest point on the lateral (outside) of your foot.


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## RadDad801 (Dec 7, 2020)

28x10.5. Hopefully the size 10.5 ThirtyTwo's I just bought fit. I rode 6 seasons on the last size 11 ThirtyTwo's.


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

Hi,

28 cm is Mondopoint 280 or size 10 US in snowboard boots. 10.5 cm is E width. My top suggestion for these specs is the Salomon Dialogue Wide or Salomon Synapse Wide in size 10. Both are designed for E width. 

STOKED!


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## RayzTheRoof (Mar 10, 2014)

Thanks, I know my mondo size. I'm just irked it doesn't correlate to a Brannock device sizing, because that's the most common size measuring device in the US. Yeah it's old, but if you're not educated about it you think the size is the same. A size 8 in snowboard boots isn't the same length as 8 Brannock :/


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## RayzTheRoof (Mar 10, 2014)

Guys I need quick help. I tried on the 8 TM-2s. Awful heel hold without additional bars put in. In store it was fine but this pair sucks for whatever reason. My toes are curling at the ends. All of my toes that is, definitely touching the end of the boot _and_ curling, so this is why I mean Mondo sizing does not always work. The Vans Infuse have much better heel hold in 8s, and I think my toes are touching the ends and curling a tiny bit, but not sure. Should I go for 7.5 in Infuse?

edit: 
screw it, pulled the trigger on 7.5 Infuse. I think it will work great! 

But yeah I am pissed about the 32's. 
The TM-2's in shop were 8.5 laced, amazing heel hold. The ones I bought were 8 double boa. The boa might contribute to the worse heel hold, but I can't really tell. I'm also really bothered by the fact that all my toes touched the end of the boot painfully uncomfortably, even with knees bent, despite my mondo size being one full size smaller than an 8. The Infuse at 8 felt a little curled but it felt like my toes were touching a soft tip compared to the hardness my toes touched in the TM-2s, so I think I felt the Liner end in the Infuse that would pack out further, while the TM-2's shell was constricting my foot permanently. 

The final thing that sucks about this situation is that I really wanted to love the TM-2's. The build quality is so much higher than the Infuse. The Infuse models I checked out all had wobbly uneven soles, which surely isn't a big deal, but stuff wasn't even glued on straight or stitched straight. Liner velcro inside also didn't line up and lock in one pair. But man the heel hold is so much better and the liner is the most comfortable I've ever felt in a boot. I guess comfort and fit is more important than any other little things that won't make a real performance difference. Oh and the TM-2's are super light, which I was hyped about for getting into park hard this season. I feel like the stiffness and heaviness of the Infuse are going to really restrict me with learning a bunch of buttering.


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## Radialhead (Jan 3, 2018)

RayzTheRoof said:


> Thanks, I know my mondo size. I'm just irked it doesn't correlate to a Brannock device sizing, because that's the most common size measuring device in the US. Yeah it's old, but if you're not educated about it you think the size is the same. A size 8 in snowboard boots isn't the same length as 8 Brannock :/


It's not really like that. A Brannock device is for measuring shoes, & shoes are designed to be comfortable from day one & not touch the ends of your toes. Snowboard boots aren't shoes, they're a piece of sporting equipment. They're not designed to be comfortable from day one, they're designed to fully support your foot & prevent it moving for the long-term. It simply isn't possible to do that & also be comfortable on day one at a reasonable cost.



RayzTheRoof said:


> Guys I need quick help. I tried on the 8 TM-2s. Awful heel hold without additional bars put in. In store it was fine but this pair sucks for whatever reason. My toes are curling at the ends. All of my toes that is, definitely touching the end of the boot _and_ curling, so this is why I mean Mondo sizing does not always work.
> 
> The TM-2's in shop were 8.5 laced, amazing heel hold. The ones I bought were 8 double boa. The boa might contribute to the worse heel hold, but I can't really tell. I'm also really bothered by the fact that all my toes touched the end of the boot painfully uncomfortably, even with knees bent, despite my mondo size being one full size smaller than an 8.


I suspect what's happening there is your heel was fully seated in the heel pocket in the 8.5s, due to them being too big so mimicking a fully broken in liner. With a stiff liner, your heel may not have been able to seat fully back in the 8's without heat-molding. That will give the impression of bad heel-hold, & put too much pressure on your toes as your foot's too far forward in the boot.

But to be honest you're just throwing away money until you measure your foot width. When people go for boots 2-2.5 sizes bigger than Mondo as you have been, it's often simply because they have wide feet that won't fit in a standard width boot's toe-box.


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## RayzTheRoof (Mar 10, 2014)

I had measured my width and I don't have a wide foot it seems.


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## ridethecliche (Feb 27, 2019)

RadDad801 said:


> 28x10.5. Hopefully the size 10.5 ThirtyTwo's I just bought fit. I rode 6 seasons on the last size 11 ThirtyTwo's.


The 3XD's you bought have a significantly stiffer liner than your TM2's. It's going to feel totally different, especially in a smaller size. Be warned that you're likely going to have to mold them if you want a shot in hell of them feeling okay out of the box. Luckily the liners can't really pack out all that much due to their construction so it shouldn't really reduce their life.


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## RayzTheRoof (Mar 10, 2014)

Radialhead said:


> It's not really like that. A Brannock device is for measuring shoes, & shoes are designed to be comfortable from day one & not touch the ends of your toes. Snowboard boots aren't shoes, they're a piece of sporting equipment. They're not designed to be comfortable from day one, they're designed to fully support your foot & prevent it moving for the long-term. It simply isn't possible to do that & also be comfortable on day one at a reasonable cost.
> 
> 
> I suspect what's happening there is your heel was fully seated in the heel pocket in the 8.5s, due to them being too big so mimicking a fully broken in liner. With a stiff liner, your heel may not have been able to seat fully back in the 8's without heat-molding. That will give the impression of bad heel-hold, & put too much pressure on your toes as your foot's too far forward in the boot.
> ...


Ahh, never thought of those explanations. Overall I think the Infuse 7.5 will be fine since I had tried it and and I thought it was super tight, and with a ton of heel hold immediately. The 32 build quality and weight was amazing, but it's definitely less comfortable and I cannot find any sizes below 8 anywhere.


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## ridethecliche (Feb 27, 2019)

RayzTheRoof said:


> Ahh, never thought of those explanations. Overall I think the Infuse 7.5 will be fine since I had tried it and and I thought it was super tight, and with a ton of heel hold immediately. The 32 build quality and weight was amazing, but it's definitely less comfortable and I cannot find any sizes below 8 anywhere.


Like I said above, you really have to break in the liners on the 32's you have or get them heat molded. Even so, they sometimes fit smaller than other models like the TM2's. I'm pretty sure I've seen that some folks have to size up a half size. 

Out of curiosity, what did you think of the 32 sizing vs the vans? The 32's ended up being too big for you? Asking because I have a set of TM3's in 8 and ordered a set of vans infuse in the same size lol. I should maybe have ordered the vans in size 7.5 as well but read that they fit true to size.


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## Jelly817 (Jan 5, 2021)

Wiredsport said:


> Hi,
> 
> 28 cm is Mondopoint 280 or size 10 US in snowboard boots. 10.5 cm is E width. My top suggestion for these specs is the Salomon Dialogue Wide or Salomon Synapse Wide in size 10. Both are designed for E width.
> 
> STOKED!


I literally just got mine in today! The saloman dialogue wides fit PERFECT! They are snug around the foot but not to the point where I feel my toes are suffocating like they have the past few season wearing rentals. I can't believe how accurate you were on sizing lol With that in mind, lets move on to my wifes foot now cause I can't just let her wear those rentals now that i've seen the light. Her feet size comes in at 9.3 inches long and 3.6 inches wide on her right foot. On her left food, we got 9.5 inches long and 3.5 inches wide. Thank you in advance and I'll have her write you a review as well when she's off work!


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## RayzTheRoof (Mar 10, 2014)

ridethecliche said:


> Like I said above, you really have to break in the liners on the 32's you have or get them heat molded. Even so, they sometimes fit smaller than other models like the TM2's. I'm pretty sure I've seen that some folks have to size up a half size.
> 
> Out of curiosity, what did you think of the 32 sizing vs the vans? The 32's ended up being too big for you? Asking because I have a set of TM3's in 8 and ordered a set of vans infuse in the same size lol. I should maybe have ordered the vans in size 7.5 as well but read that they fit true to size.


Yeah I don't usually like to heat mold because I have OCD related ticks and would move my feet around internally too much, and also I feel like it can potentially make the liner too loose because it's not broken in naturally.

The 32's felt small in a size 8 for me, but it could totally be because the heel is pushing my toes to the tip of the boot. No real way to tell. Initially though, the Infuse has a thousand times more comfort and better fit. I read Vans also don't pack out as much, so I think a 7.5 will be perfect for me while also keeping the heel hold. The 8 had some lift while walking about and my toes were a little cramped but comfortably cramped. If the 7.5 is somewhat uncomfortably cramped, maybe that will be perfect lol. I am worried I should have gone for 7s though because my mondo is 24.8. But the 7.5 Vans I tried on a couple weeks ago were pretty damn tight and I can't see myself even successfully stuffing my foot in anything smaller.


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## ridethecliche (Feb 27, 2019)

RayzTheRoof said:


> Yeah I don't usually like to heat mold because I have OCD related ticks and would move my feet around internally too much, and also I feel like it can potentially make the liner too loose because it's not broken in naturally.
> 
> The 32's felt small in a size 8 for me, but it could totally be because the heel is pushing my toes to the tip of the boot. No real way to tell. Initially though, the Infuse has a thousand times more comfort and better fit. I read Vans also don't pack out as much, so I think a 7.5 will be perfect for me while also keeping the heel hold. The 8 had some lift while walking about and my toes were a little cramped but comfortably cramped. If the 7.5 is somewhat uncomfortably cramped, maybe that will be perfect lol. I am worried I should have gone for 7s though because my mondo is 24.8. But the 7.5 Vans I tried on a couple weeks ago were pretty damn tight and I can't see myself even successfully stuffing my foot in anything smaller.


Pull out the liner for the 32's you got and compare it to the vans. It's nothing like most liners. I'm pretty certain the vans will pack out way more than the 32's just because of the liner. You're still thinking about the TM2's which do not use the same liner as your new 32's.

Depending on how crazy you want to get with things for the verse you could size down to the 7's and get heel lifts to pull your toes back a tiny bit and possibly help get your ankle locked into the ankle pocket a bit better as well. That's a super aggressive fit though (looking at you @WigMar) and its not something I really have much intention of doing. If the 8's had lift, your feet were likely sliding forwards and crunching your toes.

Fit is the most important thing for the boots for sure. If the vans fit you better, that's all there is to it.

And just for reference, I measured my mondopoint at 25.8 and fit in the TM3's in a size 8 with the same liner as your 3XD's. I also ordered the size 8 verse to try on and will try those this weekend when they get here. I also ordered and tried on a set of ride lasso's in size 8 which seemed to fit well and had good heel hold.

If you find that your feet are too cramped in a size 8 boot, you may be underestimating the width of your feet.


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## Jelly817 (Jan 5, 2021)

Wiredsport said:


> Hi,
> 
> 28 cm is Mondopoint 280 or size 10 US in snowboard boots. 10.5 cm is E width. My top suggestion for these specs is the Salomon Dialogue Wide or Salomon Synapse Wide in size 10. Both are designed for E width.
> 
> STOKED!


I measured my feet and was 27.75 cm in each foot in length and about 10.6cm wide and @Wiredsport made this same exact suggestion to me. I was very hesitant cause I've worn 10.5's at the park rental store and they fucked my toes up HARD and were slightly small. Then here I was being suggested a 9.5 and I couldn't seem to believe it at all. It just seemed completely unrealistic that my foot would fit inside it. Today I got my Saloman Dialogue Wides, put on the same socks as I did last season, and I can't begin to explain to you the difference I felt even though it was a half size smaller than I would've picked for myself. The width completely expands the toe area for you so that your toe is still hitting the tip but without pain. I can see how wearing these might break them in a little bigger which may make them not as perfectly snug but that's a chance i'm willing to take because I got these on sale. I was way too fearful to buy a 9.5 but going a full size smaller than what you would expect definitely won't be too small if wired suggests it now that I know myself. I personally got the 10. I was extremely hesitant and thought that maybe my foot was different. I was wrong, this guy clearly knows his shit when it comes to snowboard boots fit. The wides were a serious game changer.


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## RayzTheRoof (Mar 10, 2014)

ridethecliche said:


> Pull out the liner for the 32's you got and compare it to the vans. It's nothing like most liners. I'm pretty certain the vans will pack out way more than the 32's just because of the liner. You're still thinking about the TM2's which do not use the same liner as your new 32's.
> 
> Depending on how crazy you want to get with things for the verse you could size down to the 7's and get heel lifts to pull your toes back a tiny bit and possibly help get your ankle locked into the ankle pocket a bit better as well. That's a super aggressive fit though (looking at you @WigMar) and its not something I really have much intention of doing. If the 8's had lift, your feet were likely sliding forwards and crunching your toes.
> 
> ...


What, my new 32s ARE the TM-2's


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## ridethecliche (Feb 27, 2019)

RayzTheRoof said:


> What, my new 32s ARE the TM-2's


I think I had you confused with someone else that posted in one of the other shoe threads. I thought you had the 3XD's. Ignore me lol. You're right. They'll definitely pack out. 
😂😂😂


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## WigMar (Mar 17, 2019)

RayzTheRoof said:


> I feel like it can potentially make the liner too loose because it's not broken in naturally.


Boot liners are designed to be heat molded. Heat molding actually moves EVA around from areas of high pressure to low pressure areas. It is not the same as riding a boot to break it in, because that just compresses the EVA instead of shifting it around. More aggressive liners must be heat fit- it is mandatory. They are too shapeless otherwise. As @ridethecliche pointed out, a heat mold can get your heel to finally sit in the pocket. I don't think you have to be totally still when you're heat molding. It's not an instant process. 

Many of us have slowly crept down to smaller boot sizes. I didn't just end up in tiny boots with heel lifts overnight. I wish I had taken a shorter journey to get me to where I am, but I'm happy to be here with my aggressive performance fit.


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

Jelly817 said:


> I literally just got mine in today! The saloman dialogue wides fit PERFECT! They are snug around the foot but not to the point where I feel my toes are suffocating like they have the past few season wearing rentals. I can't believe how accurate you were on sizing lol With that in mind, lets move on to my wifes foot now cause I can't just let her wear those rentals now that i've seen the light. Her feet size comes in at 9.3 inches long and 3.6 inches wide on her right foot. On her left food, we got 9.5 inches long and 3.5 inches wide. Thank you in advance and I'll have her write you a review as well when she's off work!


Hi Jelly,

She is Mondopoint 245 which is a womens size 7.5 (or a men's 6.5). Her foot is D width which is wider than a standard B for women's boots. Smaller women's boots are trick because there is way more variability in sizing. She _may_ find enough width in some women women's models to accommodate her width. Most will not. If she is unable to find a women's boot that works, men's boots in size 6.5 are an option. Men's standard with boots are D width. 

STOKED!


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## Jelly817 (Jan 5, 2021)

Wiredsport said:


> Hi Jelly,
> 
> She is Mondopoint 245 which is a womens size 7.5 (or a men's 6.5). Her foot is D width which is wider than a standard B for women's boots. Smaller women's boots are trick because there is way more variability in sizing. She _may_ find enough width in some women women's models to accommodate her width. Most will not. If she is unable to find a women's boot that works, men's boots in size 6.5 are an option. Men's standard with boots are D width.
> 
> STOKED!



@Wiredsport This is very tough. I can't find mens boots in 6.5 and can't find any website that states the width of their shoes either for women. If you have any suggestions throw them my way, otherwise we may have to settle with getting a mens 7.


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

Hi Jelly,

The brand sites may be a good option. Here is Salomon filtered by 6.5. Men's snowboard boots | SALOMON®


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## Radialhead (Jan 3, 2018)

Jelly817 said:


> @Wiredsport This is very tough. I can't find mens boots in 6.5 and can't find any website that states the width of their shoes either for women. If you have any suggestions throw them my way, otherwise we may have to settle with getting a mens 7.


@neni recommended DC Mora for women with wide feet. My girlfriend is a UK5.5 D width & that's what she'll be getting next time round.


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

Radialhead said:


> @neni recommended DC Mora for women with wide feet. My girlfriend is a UK5.5 D width & that's what she'll be getting next time round.


Or check men's Deeluxe boots. 

I usually cannot wear men's boots (get calve bite from the high boot leg), but could wear Deeluxe XV fine, as an other female friend can. However, I don't know if the XV specifically has a boot leg which works for women, too, or if all of Deeluxe men's boots are designed that way, but maybe some of their resort boots are suitable. Worth a check. (XV is a backcountry boot. Not really for resort riding)


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## ridethecliche (Feb 27, 2019)

My gf really likes her moras as well.


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## RayzTheRoof (Mar 10, 2014)

Rode the 7.5 Infuse today. Snug fit, right foot perfectly locked down, left foot has a lot of lift. I tightened them lightly and it helped but still not great. Then my feet when numb and lost circulation. I rode the rest of the day with no lacing basically. I just tied it extremely loose, laces basically doing nothing, boa barely touched, liner harness not even tightened. Yeah my foot was numb.
So basically I need a size 7 boot to lock down my heels, but I can't even wear an untied 7.5 without losing blood flow


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## WigMar (Mar 17, 2019)

Bootfit my friend, bootfit. I feel like finding the proper size and shape of boot is the only the first step. Then comes the process of making those boots fit your foot perfectly. I hasn't ever been my experience that I can buy a boot and just go wear it. People who can do that must have a more generic foot shape or something. With new boots, I'm always coming home and breaking out the foam, razor knife and heat gun. I've got at least 40 days on my boots right now, and I just tweaked the liners again as they got packed out. They continue to fit my feet perfectly because I force them to. I'd recommend a heat mold if you haven't gone there yet. Move that EVA from the areas that are cutting off your circulation and down into the areas that are loose. If you have already had them heat molded, you can hit the hot spots with a heat gun and get them out of your way. Also, are you on the stock insoles? Finding an insole with less volume would probably free up some blood flow as well.


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## RayzTheRoof (Mar 10, 2014)

This has happened with every single boot I've owned, 3 pairs at this point :/, and I feel the 8s I used to own wasn't really tightened down too much. The Infuse is super cushy and soft, not as stiff as it seems, so I can't see where the circulation is being cut off. I wish this boot was for me because it's easily the most comfortable liner I've felt. Though I'll say the customizability is a bit of BS. The power strap acts as a tight top lace, which is great, but all the calf lacing below that seems to not matter then. The tongue stiffeners also barely made a difference to me.


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## RayzTheRoof (Mar 10, 2014)

Also I'll never know if a boot causes these circulation problems until I try them on the mountain :/


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## ridethecliche (Feb 27, 2019)

Out of the box boots are going to be 'good enough' for the most part. If you're having a little bit of heel lift, there are lots of mods you can do to work with that. Going forward I expect to be doing this with every set of boots I own either right away or after they break in over a few days.


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## RayzTheRoof (Mar 10, 2014)

Noticeable heel lift right out the gate is a pretty bad sign though, particularly because my other foot is fine, so I think the left boot just wasn't as snug at first and will only break in to be worse. I don't really want to modify anything in these boots because the heel wrap stitched on the liner already pinches my ankle super tight.


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## ridethecliche (Feb 27, 2019)

RayzTheRoof said:


> Noticeable heel lift right out the gate is a pretty bad sign though, particularly because my other foot is fine, so I think the left boot just wasn't as snug at first and will only break in to be worse. I don't really want to modify anything in these boots because the heel wrap stitched on the liner already pinches my ankle super tight.


Except that this suggests that your feet are very different and you will likely have to make modifications regardless. So you might be able to find something that works halfway for both and modify from there, but IMHO having one foot feel totally different is a sign that bootfit might be even more challenging off the rack.


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

RayzTheRoof said:


> So basically I need a size 7 boot to lock down my heels, but I can't even wear an untied 7.5 without losing blood flow


Hi Rayz,

Unlaced boots make things much worse. When a boot is unlaced there is nothing to hold your heel back in the pocket so it will crush your toes against the front. No judgements should be made based on an unlaced boot.

I would again urge you to post up images of all four of your barefoot measurements being taken. You are putting a lot of thought and effort into this (which is great) but if you are open to outside consideration, it is impossible for us to give meaningful suggestions without those details. We are really guessing at that point.


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## RayzTheRoof (Mar 10, 2014)

Unlaced was a bit of an exaggeration, everything was done up enough to put things where they should be, the boot just might not be for me. 

My lengths for both feet are 24.8cm and the width was 3.5 inches exactly on the left foot. I haven't checked the right but I'll get on that soon
and images, thanks. 

Isn't instep height important for boot consideration too because that point can cause blood flow issues?


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

Hi Rayz,

24.8 is mid-range for Mondopoint 250 or size 7. 3.5 inches is mid-range for a standard D width. A high instep is easily accommodated by the Mondopoint range unless very severe. You are actually a very straight forward fit. There are a lot of great boots out there for you in your size. Just get your heat fit done before riding and you should have great success. I will be happy to confirm with images as sometimes we can pick up things there that are a little off. 

STOKED!


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## RayzTheRoof (Mar 10, 2014)

Can boots that are perfect for your foot still cause blood flow problems without molding? Because even before I rode looser yesterday, my boots weren't cranked down super tight and had issues. 


Other than that though, my real issue is finding boots in a 7. They practically don't exist unlesa I order online from the manufacturer with shipping that will arrive at the end of the season
. I also need to find small bindings :/ I live Contact Pros but again I can't find smalls.


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## RayzTheRoof (Mar 10, 2014)

Pics:


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## RayzTheRoof (Mar 10, 2014)

God I just want TM-2's in a 7 so badly!


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

Please measure both of your widths again and reshoot using this method. For width please place the inside (medial side) of your foot against a wall. Please then measure from the wall out to the widest point on the lateral (outside) of your foot.


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## RayzTheRoof (Mar 10, 2014)




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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

Hi,

It is actually the reverse we are looking for. Please place the inside (medial side) of your foot against a wall. Please then measure from the wall out to the widest point on the lateral (outside) of your foot.


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## RayzTheRoof (Mar 10, 2014)




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## RayzTheRoof (Mar 10, 2014)

Sorry, updated the pics. If I get another Vans Infuse in a 7, is it likely that the blood circulation issues will go away after break-in? I am pretty against heat molding because I can't keep my feet still and I don't think the fit is as accurate as riding to break them in. And generally no retailer would exchange after that and people who might buy my boots in the future will have a different fit.


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

Hi,

Yes, you are a standard size 7 and actually a very straight forward fit. 

Heat fit should be considered mandatory and it should be done right away. I have never heard of a retailer not accepting a return for a boot that has been heat fit. They can be reformed dozens of times and returned to the original form simply by reheating the liner without a foot. 

Heat fitting creates an exact negative of your foot. This is a positive. This is a highly customized fit. Wearing a boot to break it in, compresses the materials with motion and enlarges it everywhere. This is an (unavoidable) negative. The two processes are not at all alike.

STOKED!


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## RayzTheRoof (Mar 10, 2014)

But by that science of molding, even after a mold to your fit you will be breaking it in and making it larger everywhere. So that part is unavoidable?


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

Hi Rayz,

The heat molding process allows the heated EVA in the liner to flow and reposition to the negative areas around your foot. This minimizes the negative impacts of traditional break in. If I might, you are putting a lot of of barriers in the way of your getting a good fit. You have a very straight forward fit and an unremarkable foot in terms of boot fit. I would urge you to simply follow the process that is consistent with boot design. If you follow those steps you will achieve the correct fit.

STOKED!


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## RayzTheRoof (Mar 10, 2014)

I greatly appreciate your help, but I'm hesitant because there seems to be a lot of conflicting info out there. There's the FAQ thread that says heat molding works best if done immediately, but you said a liner can be molded as many times as you want and even return to its original shape. Some say it reduces the liners life span (probably negligible) and others have experience with losing heel hold after molding. So of course I'm hesitant at first.


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## WigMar (Mar 17, 2019)

I think you're overthinking the process. I wouldn't be hesitant at all. There's a lot of misinformation out there. Honestly, there's no way I would ever try to "ride a boot in". That's just not how the gear is designed. If you want boots to fit well without heat molding, you need to buy linerless boots. 

Boots with removable liners are designed to be heat molded. The liner is left pretty shapeless and generic on purpose. Riding the boot will not shape the liner to your foot. Only heat molding does this.

Heat molding works best when the foam is new. You can mold it a dozen times in a row with no ill effects as long as you don't get the foam too hot.

As boots are used, the cells of the foam can become damaged. This reduces the ability of the foam to move under heat, but there is still movement. You can still heat form a liner with 50 days on it. Ask me how I know. 

Loosing heel hold after molding means they molded improperly. It's easy to redo until it's right. You've got to get your feet locked into the heel pocket by kicking the heels on the ground and lacing up tight.


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## RayzTheRoof (Mar 10, 2014)

Gotcha, thanks. Do shops usually take the liner out for their heat machines or do it while it's still in the boot?


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## WigMar (Mar 17, 2019)

They generally put the liner in the boot and put the whole unit on the heater. Here's a guide by Intuition for shops doing heat molding if you want to nerd out on their process.


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## RayzTheRoof (Mar 10, 2014)

I just have a tendency to fidget a lot and fear messing up the mold. And also not having my heel in the pocket enough.


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## WigMar (Mar 17, 2019)

I think you'll be alright if you move a little. Most of the movement in the foam happens as soon as you put your foot in the boot. You're just waiting for it set as it cools.

It's pretty easy to seat the heel in the pocket when the liner is hot. Just kick it back against the ground a few times. I seat my heels in the pocket like this every time I put my boots on.


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## Oea232524 (Jan 8, 2021)

Wiredsport said:


> They are not. Burton's Wide boots are EEE width so those are not a strong option. The Salomon boots would be my top suggestion should you find the current Burton boots too uncomfortable. Going down a half size in standard width will not answer the width issue which will likely make that toe issue worse.


Picked up a pair of synapse wides in the 9.5 as you suggested. Is there a tip on how to know if they are going to be a good fit. Walking around my house in them now and they feel tight. Bottom of my foot feeling like it’s losing some circulation. Kind of tight around the ankle/heel. Concerned that once I get on mountain it will only get more uncomfortable. I don’t think I laced that tight.


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## Snow Hound (Jul 21, 2012)

Sounds about right to me. Did you get them heat moulded? Do you have any old boots you can swap into if it gets too much? I'm sure they'll be perfect after a few days.


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

Here is our heat fit info (link below). I cannot reiterate this enough. Get your boots heat fit right away. 









Heat Fit FAQ - Love your feet


Heat Fit FAQ - Love Your Feet Greetings fellow foot lovers. As a die hard supporter of best-practice boot fitting everywhere, I wanted to share some thoughts on the heat fit process. What is a heat moldable liner? Heat moldable (AKA heat fit, AKA thermofit, AKA thermoform) liners are made...




www.snowboardingforum.com


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## RayzTheRoof (Mar 10, 2014)

Hey Wiredsport, when a shop heat molds a boot with their machines, they usually leave the liner in the boot I believe. Are they supposed to remove the footbed as well? I ask because when you look up all the DIY at home videos, everyone takes the liner out and the footbed before putting a bag of rice or whatever inside.

Also do you recommend the method where you lift your toes onto a piece of wood, or is that overkill?

Final question is: I've seen you mention you flex your knees forward during molding. Do you mean bend your knees to a stance as if you were on a board riding? Should you be pushing your shins forward much into your boots' tongues?

Also, almost every source always says that heat-molding speeds up the break-in process. But according to you, heat molding and break-in are 2 very different things. Where does your info come from, because it makes a lot more sense, but no one else says that.


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

Rayz,

Please read my tips in the link above. All of your questions are answered in that post. Most liners are removed for heating and then reinserted for the actual fit.

STOKED!


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## Radialhead (Jan 3, 2018)

RayzTheRoof said:


> Also, almost every source always says that heat-molding speeds up the break-in process. But according to you, heat molding and break-in are 2 very different things. Where does your info come from, because it makes a lot more sense, but no one else says that.


That's the internet for you. Somebody says something they once heard (or guessed), somebody else finds it when Googling, believes it, quotes it, & before you know it a myth is born. OK it happened pre-Internet too (just look at religion), but it's far more prevalent these days. It is just common sense that heat molding will fill voids as well as remove pressure; anyone who's ever owned a memory foam mattress will have seen it in action. But there are so many comments on the Internet stating that you don't need to heat mold because you can just break the boots in by riding. So when you state otherwise, people struggle to believe it.


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## ridethecliche (Feb 27, 2019)

Radialhead said:


> That's the internet for you. Somebody says something they once heard (or guessed), somebody else finds it when Googling, believes it, quotes it, & before you know it a myth is born. OK it happened pre-Internet too (just look at religion), but it's far more prevalent these days. It is just common sense that heat molding will fill voids as well as remove pressure; anyone who's ever owned a memory foam mattress will have seen it in action. But there are so many comments on the Internet stating that you don't need to heat mold because you can just break the boots in by riding. So when you state otherwise, people struggle to believe it.


Pretty sure manufacturers say that as well, i.e. you will mold the boots to your feet just by riding (i.e. heat from your feet will activate the foam and layer it places), but heat molding will speed up the process significantly...and just makes more sense overall because you're not going to get the same redistribution of foam at the lower temp from just your feet.


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## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

ridethecliche said:


> Pretty sure manufacturers say that as well, i.e. you will mold the boots to your feet just by riding (i.e. heat from your feet will activate the foam and layer it places), but heat molding will speed up the process significantly...and just makes more sense overall because you're not going to get the same redistribution of foam at the lower temp from just your feet.


Well that is a theory and practice. But perhaps based on marketing to the lodge bunnies that want to avoid pain. I've done it both ways and both work. But heat moulding is not the magic bullet.


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## RayzTheRoof (Mar 10, 2014)

Wiredsport said:


> Rayz,
> 
> Please read my tips in the link above. All of your questions are answered in that post. Most liners are removed for heating and then reinserted for the actual fit.
> 
> STOKED!


Thanks! Missed that link. Is there potential damage if they put one of those heaters in the boot without removing the liner separately? Like below:


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## ridethecliche (Feb 27, 2019)

RayzTheRoof said:


> Thanks! Missed that link. Is there potential damage if they put one of those heaters in the boot without removing the liner separately? Like below:


Those heaters are what 32 uses. Pretty sure it has their logo on it.


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## Radialhead (Jan 3, 2018)

ridethecliche said:


> Pretty sure manufacturers say that as well, i.e. you will mold the boots to your feet just by riding (i.e. heat from your feet will activate the foam and layer it places)


They may say that, but I don't believe a word of it. Your feet compress the foam at the points where the PSI's high enough to do so, & body heat may make the foam a bit softer to help with that, but no way do they get hot enough to make the foam puff up the way it does when you stick the liners in the oven. If the boots are tight enough when new & you can handle the pain, it might not matter though. Either way I'll stick with heat molding as it's so quick & easy to do at home once you stop being scared of damaging the liners.


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## Kijima (Mar 3, 2019)

Radialhead said:


> They may say that, but I don't believe a word of it. Your feet compress the foam at the points where the PSI's high enough to do so, & body heat may make the foam a bit softer to help with that, but no way do they get hot enough to make the foam puff up the way it does when you stick the liners in the oven. If the boots are tight enough when new & you can handle the pain, it might not matter though. Either way I'll stick with heat molding as it's so quick & easy to do at home once you stop being scared of damaging the liners.


How hot is your oven when you heat them up?


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## Kijima (Mar 3, 2019)

Radialhead said:


> That's the internet for you. Somebody says something they once heard (or guessed), somebody else finds it when Googling, believes it, quotes it, & before you know it a myth is born. OK it happened pre-Internet too (just look at religion), but it's far more prevalent these days.


What an epic prelude to a post. 
Did you also know that wax gets deep into the microscopic pores in your base, even though the viscosity of molten wax is too low to actually find its way into a microscopic hole.


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## Radialhead (Jan 3, 2018)

Kijima said:


> How hot is your oven when you heat them up?


I use 115 deg C for 10-15 minutes.


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## Radialhead (Jan 3, 2018)

Kijima said:


> What an epic prelude to a post.
> Did you also know that wax gets deep into the microscopic pores in your base, even though the viscosity of molten wax is too low to actually find its way into a microscopic hole.


One of my favourites is that you have to scrub in new motorcycle tyres as they have a slippery release agent on that's used to get them out the mould. I got so fed up with reading that nonsense I spoke to several tyre manufacturer's technical engineers, all of whom confirmed it was a myth. And yet even professional tyre fitters continue to spread it.


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## Kijima (Mar 3, 2019)

Radialhead said:


> I use 115 deg C for 10-15 minutes.


Thank you Sir


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## ridethecliche (Feb 27, 2019)

Radialhead said:


> They may say that, but I don't believe a word of it. Your feet compress the foam at the points where the PSI's high enough to do so, & body heat may make the foam a bit softer to help with that, but no way do they get hot enough to make the foam puff up the way it does when you stick the liners in the oven. If the boots are tight enough when new & you can handle the pain, it might not matter though. Either way I'll stick with heat molding as it's so quick & easy to do at home once you stop being scared of damaging the liners.


Exactly. My comfort is worth it. Heat molding boots is another layer of customization. No chance im skipping it.


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## WigMar (Mar 17, 2019)

Kijima said:


> How hot is your oven when you heat them up?


You'll see them puff up when they're ready. Eva swells up a little like a marshmallow.


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## ktcred (Jan 25, 2021)

@Wiredsport

Thanks for all of your help on these boards. If you don't mind, I would appreciate your recommendation for boot sizing for me as well. (Note: I read through your instructions and measured to the best of my ability.)

Bottom Line: I'm looking into the Burton Step On system and the accompanying Photon boots. Based on my measurements (see below) and Burton's sizing chart, should I be looking at a size 9.5? ( can get my head around a 10.5, but 9.5 seems like pain-city (I normally where a shoe between 10.5 and 11)

Measurements (pictures attached):

Left Length: 27.3 cm
Right Length: 27.0 cm
Left Width: 9.8 cm
Right Width: 9.7 cm
EDIT: I remeasured my feet; I wasn’t putting all of my weight on them the first go around (was sitting). Left Length: ~27.9; Right Length: ~27.6. Sounds like a 28, which is 10 US. I tried that on a Photo (see later post), and left foot was fairly cramped.
Some quick notes:

I have 2012 Thirty Two's STWs that are a size 11. Too soft and time to upgrade. I always thought the left foot was just a tad too tight, bruising my longest toe. Based on their sizing chart, I'm assuming I should be in a 9.5? That seems insane.
I tried on a 10.5 in Burton Swath and my toes felt like they were curling. The 11 in Swath felt much better and did touch the front of the lining
My snowboard boot fitter was trying to sell me on a 10.5 in K2 Maysis. He measured me with a standard show sizing tool
My ski boots are either 27 or 27.5 )and fit like a glove - for over 9 years

Thanks in advance for your assistance.


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## Radialhead (Jan 3, 2018)

ktcred said:


> @Wiredsport
> 
> 
> Bottom Line: I'm looking into the Burton Step On system and the accompanying Photon boots. Based on my measurements (see below) and Burton's sizing chart, should I be looking at a size 9.5? ( can get my head around a 10.5, but 9.5 seems like pain-city (I normally where a shoe between 10.5 and 11)
> ...


Your feet are a fraction smaller than mine & I wear US9.5 (Burton & Northwave). If I was getting Step-Ons, I'd probably get the 9.5 Wide as your feet are at the upper limit of standard width boots, & lots of people struggle with the width of Step-Ons being too narrow by the toe cleats.


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## RayzTheRoof (Mar 10, 2014)

Really pissed. Got Salomon Lo Fi's. Extroardinarily comfortable, fits well in my mondo size...but has zero heel hold despite the str8jkt tech inside. It's a harness that tightens over the liner to hold down your ankle. 
But :
1. the boa lace is cheap thread and not wire, already frayed out of the box.
2. The harness only covers half the ankle, providing zero hold and intense pain when tightened. Photo below of the tightened harness:









I made a post about this before I took the liner out to see what was up with the red str8jkt. It's awful.


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## ktcred (Jan 25, 2021)

Radialhead said:


> Your feet are a fraction smaller than mine & I wear US9.5 (Burton & Northwave). If I was getting Step-Ons, I'd probably get the 9.5 Wide as your feet are at the upper limit of standard width boots, & lots of people struggle with the width of Step-Ons being too narrow by the toe cleats.


Thanks for the quick reply. I went to the local ski shop today and tried on a few different options (I'm seeking the Photon Step On and they only had the regular Photon). I measured at 10.5 on the Brannock scale and I tried the 10 and 10.5 Photons. My left, and bigger, foot was pressing hard against the front of the size 10 boot; I can't imagine it being comfortable over an full day on the mountain. The 10.5 fit nice and snug, with my longer foot pressing firmly, but not scrunched, in the boot. Felt a bit closer and probably tighter than my ski boot.

In speaking with the manger (keep in mind that this is Atlanta, but he is experience and has been in the busy for as long as I recall), he felt that I should go with the 10.5 because a) I live in Atlanta and spend only 10 to 15 days on the mountain b) the Photon doesn't pack at as much as others c) feels that I won't lose anything in terms of responsiveness and yet get more comfort. He also rides the Steps Ons and said I shouldn't have the hot spot others note, as that seems to be limited to those with wide feet.

Hmmmm


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

Hi KT,

Your images show a very easy fit for Mondopoint 275 or size 9.5 US in snowboard boots. Your images show you as being at the lowest to middle side of the 5 mm range for this size. You are a standard D width. This is also confirmed by your years of comfortable riding in Mondopoint 275 ski boots which use the exact same mondopoint sizing standard as snowboard boots. If you would like to use your second measurements (no images) then you would be Mondopoint 280 or size size 10 but I would strongly suggest that you confirm those in duplicate as that would be very odd with your ski boot history. 

Step on's are not unusual in sizing but they do have a group of fit peculiarities that can be problematic. Some of the rigidity that is typically managed by the binding in a conventional system is built in to the boots in the step on system. This does sometimes cause discomfort and it is not limited to wide feet.

STOKED!


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## Radialhead (Jan 3, 2018)

ktcred said:


> Thanks for the quick reply. I went to the local ski shop today and tried on a few different options (I'm seeking the Photon Step On and they only had the regular Photon). I measured at 10.5 on the Brannock scale and I tried the 10 and 10.5 Photons. My left, and bigger, foot was pressing hard against the front of the size 10 boot; I can't imagine it being comfortable over an full day on the mountain. The 10.5 fit nice and snug, with my longer foot pressing firmly, but not scrunched, in the boot. Felt a bit closer and probably tighter than my ski boot.
> 
> In speaking with the manger (keep in mind that this is Atlanta, but he is experience and has been in the busy for as long as I recall), he felt that I should go with the 10.5 because a) I live in Atlanta and spend only 10 to 15 days on the mountain b) the Photon doesn't pack at as much as others c) feels that I won't lose anything in terms of responsiveness and yet get more comfort. He also rides the Steps Ons and said I shouldn't have the hot spot others note, as that seems to be limited to those with wide feet.
> 
> Hmmmm


Your money, your call. But 10.5 is designed for feet from 28.1 to 28.5cm long, as per Burton's own sizing chart. As Step-Ons haven't got the binding straps to partly counter a loose boot, I'm fairly sure you'll regret it.


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## ktcred (Jan 25, 2021)

@Wiredsport & @Radialhead

Thanks again for the help. I've uploaded a few new pics:


Left Foot @ 27.9 cm
Right Foot @ 27.4 cm
Two pics of me on my size 11 ThirtyTwos foot bed (black foot bed)
Two pics of me on my size 27.5 (maybe it is a 27?) Salomon ski boots (blue foot bed) - EDIT: These are aftermarket foot beds and have a lift at the heel
When I tried on the 10.0 Photon's I felt pretty crunched. However, the above numbers say otherwise. Thoughts


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## ktcred (Jan 25, 2021)

@Wiredsport if I recall correctly, ski boot shells run in full sizes only (e.g., 26, 27, 28). Do snowboard shells run the same way, or are they true half sizes?


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

1:1 lasting is a feature of some terrific snowboard boots (meaning that a shell size is produced for each half size) while skip lasting is used in other excellent boots. I like the term skip lasting vs whole size lasting as the breaks do not have to be on the whole sizes and the breaks can be inconsistent throughout the size range. It is important to keep in mind that the snowboard boot is a compound product and the integration of the components is what determines a great product. A great fit can be achieved in boots with or without 1:1 lasting.

STOKED!


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## Oea232524 (Jan 8, 2021)

Wiredsport said:


> Here is our heat fit info (link below). I cannot reiterate this enough. Get your boots heat fit right away.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I’m going to be in park city this week - haven’t used the Salomon dialogues I purchased as you suggested. Do you Have a shop in park city you recommend for the heat fit?


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## Proelim (Mar 21, 2021)

Hey,

All Deeluxe have really wide calve area (at least mens boots - I didn't try womens yet ) 
Also they are famous for a pretty wide footbed



neni said:


> Or check men's Deeluxe boots.
> 
> I usually cannot wear men's boots (get calve bite from the high boot leg), but could wear Deeluxe XV fine, as an other female friend can. However, I don't know if the XV specifically has a boot leg which works for women, too, or if all of Deeluxe men's boots are designed that way, but maybe some of their resort boots are suitable. Worth a check. (XV is a backcountry boot. Not really for resort riding)


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