# Perks of a true twin?



## snowklinger (Aug 30, 2011)

I like twins, just not that Sims Pristine.


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## lonerider (Apr 10, 2009)

NJMurtagh said:


> I just bought my first board, it's a Sims Pristine true twin. I'm just curious of the advantages and disadvantages of a twin vs a directional board. I've always rented gear, so I don't know for sure what I was riding before. I'd say I'm an intermediate rider, I have control and I can carve well. I'd like to get into the terrain park eventually. Anyway, any input would be great!
> 
> Oh and please don't tell me I bought a crappy board or anything cause I don't wanna hear it!


A directional board can (it's not guaranteed) can be better at riding in different snow conditions. Some boards has a longer upturn nose with a slightly different shape which is better for riding in powder and for blasting through cruddy snow. At the same time, it can have a stiffer tail for better snap out of turns. A narrower tail (taper) also lets the tail sink more for better powder floatation and quicker release from turns. A setback stance is better for more control at higher speeds, and better floatation in powder (because your weight is already shift back).

A true twin is a tiny bit easier to ride and land switch - but it's not important below 540s in my opinion... maybe not even then. A Burton Fish is about as directional board as you can get, super setback, huge taper, and a cutout tail...


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## NJMurtagh (Nov 17, 2012)

snowklinger said:


> I like twins, just not that Sims Pristine.


Ya thanks bud...


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## NJMurtagh (Nov 17, 2012)

lonerider said:


> A directional board can (it's not guaranteed) can be better at riding in different snow conditions. Some boards has a longer upturn nose with a slightly different shape which is better for riding in powder and for blasting through cruddy snow. At the same time, it can have a stiffer tail for better snap out of turns. A narrower tail (taper) also lets the tail sink more for better powder floatation and quicker release from turns. A setback stance is better for more control at higher speeds, and better floatation in powder (because your weight is already shift back).
> 
> A true twin is a tiny bit easier to ride and land switch - but it's not important below 540s in my opinion... maybe not even then. A Burton Fish is about as directional board as you can get, super setback, huge taper, and a cutout tail...


Thanks for the input! I guess I oughta try it out to really know how it is for me


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

NJMurtagh said:


> I just bought my first board, it's a Sims Pristine true twin. I'm just curious of the advantages and disadvantages of a twin vs a directional board. I've always rented gear, so I don't know for sure what I was riding before. I'd say I'm an intermediate rider, I have control and I can carve well. I'd like to get into the terrain park eventually. Anyway, any input would be great!
> 
> Oh and please don't tell me I bought a crappy board or anything cause I don't wanna hear it!


Hi NJM,

True twin really (should) mean 3 things. Perfectly symetrical outline (from the true waist out to the tip and tail), Perfectly symetrical flex (from the true waist out to the tip and tail) and centerred inserts (no setback). A lot of boards that have _twin_ in their description do not meet all of the above. 

True twins can be majorly fun as play boards, park boards and general freestyle decks, but they do have limitations. boards with some setback and asymetrical flex are easier going for riding up over pow, crud etc. Sidecut shaping can be tweaked on directional decks to rip into hardpack better (with or without wavy edges). 

Let us know a little more about the deck that you bought and we will be able to tell you more. There are still big differences between individual true twins.


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## dynaweb (Dec 15, 2010)

I am a freeride guy and I really like true twin boards. Even though most say that they are for park & pipe, there is nothing like having that extra float performance when riding fakie through deep stuff.


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## lonerider (Apr 10, 2009)

dynaweb said:


> I am a freeride guy and I really like true twin boards. Even though most say that they are for park & pipe, there is nothing like having that extra float performance when riding fakie through deep stuff.


You do realize that just means float performance while riding normally is that much worse. It's always a tradeoff.


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## grafta (Dec 21, 2009)

lonerider said:


> You do realize that just means float performance while riding normally is that much worse. It's always a tradeoff.


Yeah, we get it dude. You like the boards you like. This guy wanted pro's and cons, and the perks of a true twin. You're just sounding like you think everyone else is wrong. Not flaming, just an observation :thumbsup:


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## lonerider (Apr 10, 2009)

grafta said:


> Yeah, we get it dude. You like the boards you like. This guy wanted pro's and cons, and the perks of a true twin. You're just sounding like you think everyone else is wrong. Not flaming, just an observation :thumbsup:


well each OP is a new person. Plus if you read my previous post I gave a much longer pro ovs con breakdown. 

I think there are a lot of poseurs who give advice based on what they read from their computer chair instead of actual experience. That Is why I started to include videos of myself so people can see what kind of rider I am and then decide if in worth listening to.

If you spin 540 and switch 720 and say you prefer a true twins I will totally believe you. But if all you can do is a 180... then don't go recommending true twins with being truthful about your own abilities.

Same is true when talking about short vs long boards.


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## grafta (Dec 21, 2009)

lonerider said:


> well each OP is a new person. Plus if you read my previous post I gave a much longer pro ovs con breakdown.
> 
> I think there are a lot of poseurs who give advice based on what they read from their computer chair instead of actual experience. That Is why I started to include videos of myself so people can see what kind of rider I am and then decide if in worth listening to.
> 
> ...


I got a true twin because I aspire to be able to ride switch. I find it much easier to wrap my head around going the 'wrong' way if things are symmetrical.

What's wrong with someone giving their opinion who can only just 180?

You saying people who are less skilled than you are liars? Sorry, I just think the way you write sounds condescending. But whatever, it's teh interwebz


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## NJMurtagh (Nov 17, 2012)

Wiredsport said:


> Hi NJM,
> 
> True twin really (should) mean 3 things. Perfectly symetrical outline (from the true waist out to the tip and tail), Perfectly symetrical flex (from the true waist out to the tip and tail) and centerred inserts (no setback). A lot of boards that have _twin_ in their description do not meet all of the above.
> 
> ...


Hey, thanks for the response, you've cleared things up a little. Like I said, I'm still learning but would like to get to the park so I wanted to have a board that would be good for that, without spending a whole lot.

Here is the description for my board:

The new SIMS Pristine is designed specifically for ladies and features a true twin tip freestyle board with a women's progressive side cut and SIMS EZ rocker flat for a responsive yet catch-free ride. Not to surpass the durable yet forgiving SIMS ABS sidewalls and full tip to tail Poplar wood core, this board promises an epic ride experience at a reasonable price.

Anything else you can get from that?

thanks again!


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## NJMurtagh (Nov 17, 2012)

grafta said:


> I got a true twin because I aspire to be able to ride switch. I find it much easier to wrap my head around going the 'wrong' way if things are symmetrical.
> 
> What's wrong with someone giving their opinion who can only just 180?
> 
> You saying people who are less skilled than you are liars? Sorry, I just think the way you write sounds condescending. But whatever, it's teh interwebz


I'm not sure I can even do a 180, so opinions from beginner or intermediate park riders are just as helpful!


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## Slush Puppie (Aug 15, 2011)

In that case, don't worry about it. Come back and tell us when(if) you notice the limitations or advantages of the board. Until then, enjoy!


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## poutanen (Dec 22, 2011)

grafta said:


> I got a true twin because I aspire to be able to ride switch. I find it much easier to wrap my head around going the 'wrong' way if things are symmetrical.


I've done a lot of switch riding on a very directional board. If I were really looking to improve my switch riding for a day I'd probably swap the bindings over and ride with my back foot at the front.

I don't think Lonerider was saying directional was better than true twin, he was just offering the contrast to what dynaweb was saying:

Yes, dynaweb was right that a true twin will be much easier to ride switch in the powder. The tradeoff is that it's much harder to ride regular in the powder. Take a look at home many powder boards are true twins! 

I hate to put board styles into boxes, but here's a quick breakdown for the OP (BTW, you already bought your board so kinda late to get this info now! Enjoy the board and enjoy the sport don't worry about the details).

A directional board (all else being equal):
- carves better, easier
- floats better in powder
- can have more pop out of turns and off kickers
- can possibly blast through crud better

A true twin board is worse than the above while riding normally, and better than the above while riding fakie. I would buy a true twin board if I was going to spend 50%+ of my time in the park, ride very little powder, or if I was just a cruiser who spent a significant amount of time on sidehits and riding fakie.

I'm willing to bet that the average snowboarder only spends 10% of their time riding fakie (and that includes the park rats in the total average) so I imagine true twin boards have a significantly smaller market.


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## lonerider (Apr 10, 2009)

grafta said:


> You saying people who are less skilled than you are liars? Sorry, I just think the way you write sounds condescending. But whatever, it's teh interwebz


No, I'm not saying that... read the exact wording my post (it's quoted in your post):



lonerider said:


> But if all you can do is a 180... then don't go recommending true twins *with[out] being truthful about your own abilities*


There is nothing wrong with sharing your experiences with other people - that's why this forum exists. The problem is when people are not being truthful about themselves and "where" they got the information they are giving. 

If you didn't get this information from firsthand experience, you should say "_I was told that_ twin boards are better for switch riding" instead of saying "If you ever ride switch, you need to get a true twin" In the second version, you are passing off someone else's experiences/knowledge as your own and that' is not being truthful. It gets worse over time, because the advice gets mangled over times as it get passed on from person to person - like a game of telephone.

I used be much more mellow in my advice... but I found out that my voice gets crowded up by people who I frankly think don't know what they are talking about sometimes (they might mean well, but they are wrong). Just recently one person was suggested shorter park boards for better spins to someone just starting out in park, but later admitted they never go into the park and were just repeating something they had heard. I found I need to take a much stronger stance, otherwise I think people just randomly chime in with random hearsay.



grafta said:


> I got a true twin because I aspire to be able to ride switch. I find it much easier to wrap my head around going the 'wrong' way if things are symmetrical.


See if everyone gave the full details like you just did.... I'm totally fine with that. I might disagree with it... but then it's just a straight up debate of opinions. However, I'm pretty sure you get a little lazy writing post and just shorten it to "get a twin to ride switch" a lot of the twins, and I think is not beneficial to the OP.

I try to be very clear about who I am, what I can do... so that people can make a fair judgment of whether to trust what I'm saying as true. This is the _interwebz_ and someone who has never snowboarded before (or has limited firsthand knowledge about what they are talking about) could post anything and a lot of novice snowboarders might believe them.

So back to my original point to NJMurtagh:
If you are just starting out in park... just ride and not worry about your board so much. Eventually you will get good enough to develop your own preferences. A 180 is a 180 pretty much any board, switch riding is switch riding on pretty much any board. Once you get better and decide that all you want to do is park.... then go for the true twin at that time.


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## Alex B (Nov 12, 2012)

poutanen said:


> I've done a lot of switch riding on a very directional board. If I were really looking to improve my switch riding for a day I'd probably swap the bindings over and ride with my back foot at the front.
> 
> I don't think Lonerider was saying directional was better than true twin, he was just offering the contrast to what dynaweb was saying:
> 
> ...


Out of interest, what is the advantage of a directional twin?

Alex B


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## bcasey (Jan 19, 2011)

Good post Poutanen,

If I could only own one board.. it would be something slightly directional. Completely symetrical setups are not going to make you a better switch rider, a directional 1-board-quiver is going to serve you a lot better. 

To the OP, don't be discouraged by your purchase and the advice... if you get into some nice snow, just set your bindings back an insert and you will do just fine! If you love snowboarding and ride a ton.. you will probably find yourself owning a shorter twin and a longer directional later in life.

For what it is worth.. I have owned some of the so-called "_quiver-killer_" boards and nothing beats actually owning a good 2+ board quiver IF you ride dynamic conditions.

Enjoy your new board bud!


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## poutanen (Dec 22, 2011)

Alex B said:


> Out of interest, what is the advantage of a directional twin?


It's essentially another compromise. It'll carve better than a true twin (though not as good as a true directional), and ride fakie better than a true directional (though not as good as a true twin).

Clear as mud?!? 



bcasey said:


> If I could only own one board.. it would be something slightly directional. Completely symetrical setups are not going to make you a better switch rider, a directional 1-board-quiver is going to serve you a lot better.
> 
> To the OP, don't be discouraged by your purchase and the advice... if you get into some nice snow, just set your bindings back an insert and you will do just fine! If you love snowboarding and ride a ton.. you will probably find yourself owning a shorter twin and a longer directional later in life.
> 
> For what it is worth.. I have owned some of the so-called "_quiver-killer_" boards and nothing beats actually owning a good 2+ board quiver IF you ride dynamic conditions.


+1 although a true park rat would probably only need a 1 board quiver and that would be a true twin. Methinks the average rider is best served by a mid-flex, directional, all mountain board.

Also, I find most people only ride their first board for a short period of time. Best to buy something in the middle of most specs and then once you determine where you want to take your riding, get something more specialized.

I'm a big proponent of a quiver-killer but that's because my RUNS let alone my DAYS can include copious amounts of powder, followed by some high speed groomer bombing, to a kicker, then into the glades, finally back out onto a groomer/cat track for some carving and side hits.  The elevation changes here can mean that the top of the mountain has 1 foot of light powder, with the middle section in ice/hardpack, and the bottom is slush. That was last May at Lake Louise and it had me guessing a few times in one run!


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## dreampow (Sep 26, 2011)

For most riders out there its just splitting hairs IMO. Probably doesn't make much odds until you get to upper intermediate.

Yes, a directional twinish deck with a slight setback is probably the 1 board quiver I would recommend. 

Having said that twin decks can do everything very well, so just enjoy your new board OP. 

I spent most of last season on a 161 Volkl zenit. It has setback (which I set all the way back for pow days) a touch of taper and is stiffer in the tail. Posi camber.

Then I bought a 157 proto CT specifically for all mountain freestyle and because I like riding switch (at least 30%) and want to ride more. I ride a lot of switch in pow and the twin profile makes it much easier. As long as its not too deep a C2BTX type profile gives plenty of float going either way.

I just like the idea of using my body and muscle groups in a balanced way left and right. 

I was actually very pleasantly surprised with how well I could carve on the proto, takes a little more fore aft movement, but with effort it carves really well (not as well as the Volkl but pretty damn good). 


I still have the volkl and no doubt I will be riding it a fair bit this season (when I want to bomb flat out). 
I'll be on the proto most days though and I guarantee I'll be flying past people on their freeride sticks on the steeps and powder sticks in the pow because I know how to ride it. 

If people like twins let them ride them, its slightly disadvantageous for carving and powder but its minimal and the limiting factor here is almost always rider ability not board.


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## snowklinger (Aug 30, 2011)

dreampow said:


> For most riders out there its just splitting hairs IMO. Probably doesn't make much odds until you get to upper intermediate.
> 
> Yes, a directional twinish deck with a slight setback is probably the 1 board quiver I would recommend.
> 
> ...


qft.

lonerider, you can't argue with someone when they tell you that you come off as condescending, it just makes it more so. You do come off that way a little, and pretty sure Grafta and I like ya(ok not sure about Grafta, he is pretty badass). 

Maybe I come off the same way, dunno, sounds like you ride pretty good, but no amount of ability really makes your opinions more factual. Facts are facts and opinions are opinions.


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

Hi NJM,

You are going to have a lot of fun on that deck. Flat rock is very easy to learn on. This profile (generality) is stable and is very catch free and easy going. They don't love ice or extreme hardpack and the require care at speed, but on the whole you have a fun design to learn and progress on.

Plese post up your weight and foot size, as well as the length of your deck. It is still important that you have the correct size.


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## NJMurtagh (Nov 17, 2012)

Wiredsport said:


> Hi NJM,
> 
> You are going to have a lot of fun on that deck. Flat rock is very easy to learn on. This profile (generality) is stable and is very catch free and easy going. They don't love ice or extreme hardpack and the require care at speed, but on the whole you have a fun design to learn and progress on.
> 
> Plese post up your weight and foot size, as well as the length of your deck. It is still important that you have the correct size.


Cool, nice to hear some positives!
I'm 5'4", 127Lbs and my foot size is women's 8. My board is a 147.


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## Wiredsport (Sep 16, 2009)

NJMurtagh said:


> Cool, nice to hear some positives!
> I'm 5'4", 127Lbs and my foot size is women's 8. My board is a 147.


So that is going to be a very easy board to use and learn on. If you eventually prefer freeriding, carving etc, you will eventually outgrow it, but you can always use it as your play board.


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## dynaweb (Dec 15, 2010)

poutanen said:


> The tradeoff is that it's much harder to ride regular in the powder. Take a look at home many powder boards are true twins!


Well, not as much as you would think. Explain then T Rice and other SuperNatural style riders who kill it on true twins.


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## poutanen (Dec 22, 2011)

dynaweb said:


> Well, not as much as you would think. Explain then T Rice and other SuperNatural style riders who kill it on true twins.


He's one of the best in the business and performing freestyle moves in that event? :dunno:

I think it still stands true for the average rider a directional shape and flex board will be better in the powder while going forward. Actually this is true for Rice and the rest of the gang, but he's got the ability to overcome the limitations of the board.

People have been telling me for years I should be on a rocker board in the powder. My mad skillz allow me to rock the camber however I want on whatever I want! :cheeky4: Ha!


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## herzogone (Oct 19, 2010)

poutanen said:


> He's one of the best in the business and performing freestyle moves in that event? :dunno:
> 
> I think it still stands true for the average rider a directional shape and flex board will be better in the powder while going forward. Actually this is true for Rice and the rest of the gang, but he's got the ability to overcome the limitations of the board.
> 
> People have been telling me for years I should be on a rocker board in the powder. My mad skillz allow me to rock the camber however I want on whatever I want! :cheeky4: Ha!


I agree, I think the big reason they rode twins in Super Natural is that twins are better for riding _switch_ in powder, which many of them did for substantial sections. And of course spins are a bit easier too.

I also agree with your main point, that the average rider probably doesn't care much about riding switch on powder days. I think it's pretty well accepted that directional boards make powder riding easier in your preferred stance (swallowtail powder boards must exist for a reason). Slightly directional twins are a compromise, making things slightly easier in the preferred stance, at a slight expense when riding switch. Riding a twin in powder means keeping most of your weight over your rear leg, which gets tiring, but riding switch allows the other leg to take a turn.

I guess I should qualify this by saying I'm probably less experienced than many here, and the current limit of my spinning ability is 180s, but I have at least ridden powder on both a directional-twin and a true-twin. I like my current board, a true-twin, because I like to ride switch a lot, even on powder days.


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## Jed (May 11, 2011)

I'd say the average rider is better off with a slightly directional snowboard over a true twin.

True twins start to gain the advantage if you do a lot of freestyle and/or ride switch often (or if you're working your way up to doing that).

Honestly, it feels a little bit better doing switch tricks on a true twin, but the difference isn't major and I'm saying this as someone who regularly spins switch 5s and up.

In the end if you get used to spinning/landing switch on a slightly directional but twin-ish shape, you can even end up preferring that feel just due to your muscle memory remembering the feeling.


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