# Can Online Tutorials Replace Actual Lessons?



## 166983 (Oct 25, 2018)

So I'm looking to properly get into snowboarding this year. I've been before, but it was a long time ago and I wasn't very good anyway, so it'd be better to just act like I've never been.

I've been doing some research and keep hearing that learning to snowboard without lessons is often a bad idea, since you'll likely have no idea what you're doing and can develop bad habits that may be hard to break. 

However, I'm just a college student working part time and want to save money if I can, so do you guys think that it's feasible to study online tutorials and videos to learn the basics and beginner's traps instead of paying an instructor to teach me these things?

It'll be at least another month before snowboarding season starts where I live, so I figure this should be plenty of time to study snowboarding and get a good idea of what I should and shouldn't be doing. But I can also see the advantage of having an actual instructor there to assess my abilities and give me specific pointers.


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## tonymontana (Dec 10, 2016)

Online tutorials do help but I think there is only so much you can understand without trying it.


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## Rip154 (Sep 23, 2017)

If you have any friends that have been doing it aswell, getting them to give you some pointers and ride with you, can be better than lessons from an instructor that doesn't know you.

I've only gotten a few bc lessons, and one group lesson when I started, that just turned into freeriding because the instructor saw the program was pointless for a few of us.


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## 161210 (Feb 9, 2018)

I would advise the lessons...instead of worrying as much about bad habits (which is very valid) think more about both injury prevention and enjoyment of the sport. It can be very frustrating when that board does not act for you like it does for the people in the videos...you will shorten your learning curve dramatically and that will give you a much better time. Some areas have deals on lessons like Loveland's 3 class pass which gives you 3 lessons and after the third you get a full season pass included (before the third your pass is restricted to the beginner area which does contain a few smaller blue runs along with the small hill you learn on).

I know it's rough to save up and find the deals for lessons but it really pays off in your enjoyment of snowboarding and in injury prevention. I skateboarded for eons on vert and am very good at that and have done freeriding on a bindingless snowboard for decades outside of resorts but I still went for the lessons because a board with edges and bindings is a whole different animal and I am very glad that I did. Right now there are a few things I am expert on and a bunch of things I am intermediate or even beginner on with snowboarding so the lessons helped me to fill in the gaps and now I just ride and continue my learning (and might take more lessons further on). Don't know if you have a skate background but if you do consider that snowboarding has bits and pieces that do relate to skating but also a wide body of knowledge that is nothing like skating....so you wind up with ability all over the place and need to realize that. That being said skateboarding even a little helps.

When you go to the hill the first time be sure to wear a tailbone pad and wrist guards along with a helmet.


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## freshy (Nov 18, 2009)

I would say yes. But the caveat would be to spend the lesson money on a seasons pass and ride every day.


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## f00bar (Mar 6, 2014)

I don't even bother going to the mountain any more and just play Steep.


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## Snowdaddy (Feb 2, 2018)

electricblue said:


> So I'm looking to properly get into snowboarding this year. I've been before, but it was a long time ago and I wasn't very good anyway, so it'd be better to just act like I've never been.
> 
> I've been doing some research and keep hearing that learning to snowboard without lessons is often a bad idea, since you'll likely have no idea what you're doing and can develop bad habits that may be hard to break.
> 
> ...


I'd say it depends very much on the individual. Do you have experience with skiing, inline skating, ice skating, wakeboarding or skateboarding?

I never took any lessons and I was linking carves within a couple of days. I think attitude to risk, fear, and pain is a big factor in how fast you learn. And knowledge about snow, it helps being a skier. I watched quite a lot of snowboarders before starting out. Both tutorials and people just being good at riding.

I think one have to have reachable and realistic goals when starting out. My primary goal was learning to carve. So I set my goals to: initiate a turn, link sliding turns and then carve. You will see people sideslipping down the mountain heel and toe side. I set my focus on not doing that but instead to point my board as much downhill as I dared and on turning and traversing. Find a good piste to start on. Not too steep but enough so that you can get a little bit of speed up.

Personally I didn't see much of a reason to take beginner lessons, but I'm fully set on taking more advanced lessons. If nothing else it's good to have someone point out your faults.

I second the opinion that protection is absolutely necessary and that lessons is a good idea in general. People really hurt themselves snowboarding. If you don't feel confident, take lessons. I think the key is to know your own ability and to calculate your risks. If you break your arms the first day it's going to be a short season.

Edit: Learning how to fall on a snowboard is very important.


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## taco tuesday (Jul 26, 2014)

f00bar said:


> I don't even bother going to the mountain any more and just play Steep.


Why didn't I think of this? Imagine the gas money I could save! And not have to buy a season pass. This is some next level stuff right here.


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## Kenai (Dec 15, 2013)

Is Steep better than Alto's Adventure? I kick ass at that! Hasn't had a noticeable impact on my snowboarding as far as I can tell.


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## Kenai (Dec 15, 2013)

electricblue said:


> ... I'm just a college student working part time ....


Where are you?


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## 166983 (Oct 25, 2018)

Snowdaddy said:


> Do you have experience with skiing, inline skating, ice skating, wakeboarding or skateboarding?


I actually used to go inline skating around my neighborhood all the time as a kid and was pretty good at it. I gave it another shot this summer and can still do it pretty well. I'm not sure how much of that really translates to snowboarding, but I'm familiar with stuff like shifting weight to turn and whatnot. 

I also used to go down sledding hills with a crappy plastic kids snowboard that you'd buy at Toys R Us for $20 or something. But when I went real snowboarding for the first time, they told me that didn't count when they asked if I had ever snowboarded before.



Rip154 said:


> If you have any friends that have been doing it aswell, getting them to give you some pointers and ride with you, can be better than lessons from an instructor that doesn't know you.


Unfortunately I don't really have any friends who snowboard, but I do have some who ski. In fact, my dad used to ski all the time and offered to teach me. I plan to take him up on that offer and try skiing sometime, but I've always been more interested in snowboarding than skiing.


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## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

Snowdaddy said:


> I'd say ...
> 
> Edit: Learning how to fall on a snowboard is very important.


This

However to yer ? abt on-line tuts replacing actual lessons...NO. But having a general concept and vocabulary down will help deal with the WTF. And yer not even ready for the creepy basement vid ... so don't watch it. :grin:


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## phillyphan (Sep 22, 2016)

This is like saying: "Can YouTube videos replace med/dental school?" NO


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## Snowdaddy (Feb 2, 2018)

electricblue said:


> I actually used to go inline skating around my neighborhood all the time as a kid and was pretty good at it. I gave it another shot this summer and can still do it pretty well. I'm not sure how much of that really translates to snowboarding, but I'm familiar with stuff like shifting weight to turn and whatnot.
> 
> I also used to go down sledding hills with a crappy plastic kids snowboard that you'd buy at Toys R Us for $20 or something. But when I went real snowboarding for the first time, they told me that didn't count when they asked if I had ever snowboarded before.
> 
> ...


Every sport that makes you aware of the center of mass in your body is a help in snowboarding and similar sports. No one in here can know how you are going to do on your first day of riding. You are probably the best judge of that. However, it doesn't sound like you have that much experience with skiing or any of the sports I mentioned. Did you manage to link turns on your fist day the last time you tried?

Before I hopped on a snowboard I had nearly 40 years of skiing, skateboarding and ice/inline skating. And a bunch of other balance sports like horseback riding and biking. I still fell over a lot and was black and blue my first days and managed by having a helmet and eating painkillers. :surprise:

Starting out with a lesson can never hurt if you feel like it could make the next couple of days easier. I'm positive I'd have done better with a real instructor than learning on my own. If you feel like you might be sideslipping down the mountain your first week, it might be a good investment to get lessons. Ski passes aren't that cheap either and if you are going on a trip to do this you don't want to ruin your vacation.



phillyphan said:


> This is like saying: "Can YouTube videos replace med/dental school?" NO


Watching videos can't hurt at least. It's good to know what you are striving for and how a proper form looks.


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## kosmoz (Dec 27, 2013)

My self taught friends tried to teach me - was not getting anywhere, spent like 10 full days on the hill strugling. Then, offseason, watched some tutorials, got the concept how the turning should be made and how the board is working and from there I started having fun and improve my riding.


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## SteezyRidah303 (Oct 5, 2010)

electricblue said:


> I've been doing some research and keep hearing that learning to snowboard without lessons is often a bad idea


I think the best part about a coach is you have someone watching you who knows what they are doing and can make on the fly corrections. I learned on my own and developed a lot of bad habits that i had to later iron out when i decided to take it more seriously.

You can watch a bunch of videos, but then when you get to the mtn, its tough to really recall all that info. Maybe if you re-watched them before each run, maybe record yourself riding so you can look for mistakes you are making that you may not notice until you can see yourself in 3rd person....


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## phillyphan (Sep 22, 2016)

Snowdaddy said:


> Watching videos can't hurt at least. It's good to know what you are striving for and how a proper form looks.


Absolutely doesn't hurt. I watched them all the time in school and now around the house to fix things. They are great.


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## f00bar (Mar 6, 2014)

phillyphan said:


> Absolutely doesn't hurt. I watched them all the time in school and now around the house to fix things. They are great.


While they don't hurt I don't usually find them overly helpful when getting to specifics, for example doing butters, etc.

The problem I have is they go from explanation to doing them perfectly with no middle ground that actually shows progression, people failing and then ideas on how to correct them, etc.

A real life instructor will watch your pathetic failed first/second/third/... attempt and tell you how to improve. A video doesn't do that. Now I'll admit I likely need more hand holding than most but for me videos work best for big picture stuff.


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## freshy (Nov 18, 2009)

phillyphan said:


> This is like saying: "Can YouTube videos replace med/dental school?" NO


How is riding an advanced toboggan for fun anywhere close to med school?


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## 166983 (Oct 25, 2018)

So my takeaway is that they won't hurt, but taking at least a group lesson won't hurt either and is probably a better option in the long run. I'll think I'll just do it, but I'll also probably spend the next month or so watching videos, since there's a while until the season starts.


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## f00bar (Mar 6, 2014)

electricblue said:


> So my takeaway is that they won't hurt, but taking at least a group lesson won't hurt either and is probably a better option in the long run. I'll think I'll just do it, but I'll also probably spend the next month or so watching videos, since there's a while until the season starts.


Private lesson is #1 , but the face value cost of that is excessive. However depending on the area you go to more often than not I can get a private lesson for the cost of a group if I time it correctly. The later in day you try the more likely you are that few people will be there. 

The area I go to have way more people lined up to give lessons than typically show up for the 2:00 classes.


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## phillyphan (Sep 22, 2016)

Honestly, take AT LEAST a one day lesson. Learn how to link turns and the basics. Then ride. I took a one day lesson. Then went out for the next few days and worked hard at what I had learned in the lesson. Basically boarded for 3 days total. Took ten years off due to remaining high school/college. Got back into it with friends who were much more experienced and picked up even more from riding with them. 

So long story short. Take a lesson. Learn the basics. And then work on it and push yourself. Experience is what matters at the end of the day.


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## Snowdaddy (Feb 2, 2018)

phillyphan said:


> Honestly, take AT LEAST a one day lesson. Learn how to link turns and the basics. Then ride. I took a one day lesson. Then went out for the next few days and worked hard at what I had learned in the lesson. Basically boarded for 3 days total. Took ten years off due to remaining high school/college. Got back into it with friends who were much more experienced and picked up even more from riding with them.
> 
> So long story short. Take a lesson. Learn the basics. And then work on it and push yourself. Experience is what matters at the end of the day.


And take a couple of pain pills and continue boarding if you wake up the following day.


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## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

Snowdaddy said:


> And take a couple of pain pills and continue boarding if you wake up the following day.



pre-dose in the parking lot with ibuprofen...to help prevent the swelling before it occurs :wink:


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## Snowdaddy (Feb 2, 2018)

wrathfuldeity said:


> pre-dose in the parking lot with ibuprofen...to help prevent the swelling before it occurs :wink:


I was dosing myself an entire week with both ibuprofen and paracetamol last season. The mornings were murderous and getting out of bed was nearly impossible. One of each in the morning and another one for lunch. :grin:


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## drblast (Feb 28, 2017)

I learned the hard way, by myself, no lessons, well before there was YouTube.

First day sucked but I kept at it all day, second day was a year later and for some reason I could link turns just fine by the end of the day. I had bought a board and visualized turning on it in the previous year. Must have helped.

I was also really into skateboarding and skimboarding when I was a kid and they're similar skills.

I think nothing will help you get better as fast as riding a lot. A lesson can help, videos can help, taking videos of yourself riding helps, but putting the theory into practice takes muscle memory in muscles you might not even use much.


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## Kenai (Dec 15, 2013)

You still didn’t mention where you live. You might find a nice friend who will share some in person tips for a case of beer (or the monetary equivalent if you are not old enough). Also, as you are in college, you can often find a day mid-week to get to the local hill when your group lesson happens to just be you. Finally, at your college you very well might find an outdoor club that has some opportunities to either get deals or meet people who will help you. 


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## 166983 (Oct 25, 2018)

Kenai said:


> You still didn’t mention where you live. You might find a nice friend who will share some in person tips for a case of beer (or the monetary equivalent if you are not old enough). Also, as you are in college, you can often find a day mid-week to get to the local hill when your group lesson happens to just be you. Finally, at your college you very well might find an outdoor club that has some opportunities to either get deals or meet people who will help you.


Not that I think you guys are untrustworthy or anything, but I'm not quite comfortable with the idea of sharing my location and meeting up in real life with people on a forum I just joined a day or two ago. I appreciate the thought though.

My school does technically give me a discount, but it doesn't apply until mid January and is only valid on nights when I'm always scheduled to work, so it's pretty much worthless. But going midweek when few people are around is a pretty good idea.


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## Kenai (Dec 15, 2013)

electricblue said:


> Not that I think you guys are untrustworthy or anything, but I'm not quite comfortable with the idea of sharing my location and meeting up in real life with people on a forum I just joined a day or two ago. I appreciate the thought though.



While I totally understand the concern, many of us also know people at various areas around the country and could recommend instructors or deals. I wasn’t asking for your street address!




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## phillyphan (Sep 22, 2016)

electricblue said:


> Not that I think you guys are untrustworthy or anything, but I'm not quite comfortable with the idea of sharing my location and meeting up in real life with people on a forum I just joined a day or two ago. I appreciate the thought though.
> 
> My school does technically give me a discount, but it doesn't apply until mid January and is only valid on nights when I'm always scheduled to work, so it's pretty much worthless. But going midweek when few people are around is a pretty good idea.


Lol, to each, his own. Some of the best times come from random meetups from people on here or just meeting other riders at resorts.


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## Tom Wilson (Oct 1, 2018)

electricblue said:


> So I'm looking to properly get into snowboarding this year. I've been before, but it was a long time ago and I wasn't very good anyway, so it'd be better to just act like I've never been.
> 
> I've been doing some research and keep hearing that learning to snowboard without lessons is often a bad idea, since you'll likely have no idea what you're doing and can develop bad habits that may be hard to break.
> 
> ...


Id say get a lesson - 

So last year i learnt to snowboard (well began to learn to snowboard) 

Me and a friend who had never snowboarded before booked a 1 hour lesson for the 2 of us. 

The week or so before we went to the slope, I spent a lot of time watching youtube vids aimed at beginner snowboarders, the ones that list in a sensible order the skills to practice - I highly recommend snowboardprocamps videos. 

Our lesson wasn't until after midday but we arrived on the slope early to practice the basics as seen in the videos,
Skating, heel slipping, toe slipping, falling leaf both heal and toeside - These we had nailed by lunch, at least to the stage where we got off the bunny slopes and took the chairlift and rode a green run, basically falling leaf and heel slipping all the way down. We knew what to expect with the button lifts and chair lifts from watching the videos and also some slope eticet - i.e not sitting down in the middle of the slope, or beneath a feature. 

We tried a couple of turns but fell at every effort - despite watching the vids. 

We then had our lesson, we told the guy what we had done, he asked to see our skills and we showed him, and he was really happy as he could then spend the whole 1hr teaching us to turn from heel to toe and toe to heel edges, 

He was really good at pointing out where both of us had been going wrong when trying to turn, gave us tips on adjusting the weight balance on our legs and also letting us know when we were getting it right, and also pointing out that as it was really hard and icy as beginners we were going to struggle no matter what. 

I think even that one lesson really helped - and when i watched all the videos again about linking your first turns it matched with what the instructor had said and I could also relate alot better to the videos. 

The next weekend I went back after fresh snow and really started doing well, linking multiple turns, and falling alot less and traveling with speed, and after a couple more weekend vists, i was really getting flowing down the green and blue run, watching the videos in between trips to refresh skills i had learned and look for the next thing to try. 

i really dont think i would have progressed as quickly as i did if i hadn't had that first lesson helping me to get turning, and i also think i wouldnt have progressed as quickly if i hadnt watched alot of the videos on youtube. 

I fully plan to get another lesson at some point when I reach something I'm struggling/ not so confident with (e.g jumps or hard carving) or i feel i reach a plateau with my riding in general. 

So yes i think you can learn with out a proper instruced lesson on the slope but I think you will learn quicker and enjoy it a whole lot more as learning to snowboard is pretty tough in the beginning - a lot tougher than skiing


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## Manicmouse (Apr 7, 2014)

Stranger danger is a myth. The vast majority of violent encounters are between people who know each other, e.g. family!

Maybe this forum attracts the stalker, serial killer types though lol


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## Snowdaddy (Feb 2, 2018)

Manicmouse said:


> Stranger danger is a myth. The vast majority of violent encounters are between people who know each other, e.g. family!
> 
> Maybe this forum attracts the stalker, serial killer types though lol


:hairy: ... sure ...


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## Kenai (Dec 15, 2013)

Haha. I wasn’t suggesting the OP meet an SBF member alone in a dark parking lot to go to the mountain for the first time! Regardless, manicmouse is largely correct - OP is far more likely to be assaulted by someone at school. 

Well, that’s my uplifting thought for the day. 


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## 166983 (Oct 25, 2018)

I've seen enough of 4chan and kiwifarms to be hesitant about putting personal information online :wink: But yeah, I'm sure it's not as dangerous as those public service announcements make it seem.


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## Manicmouse (Apr 7, 2014)

electricblue said:


> I've seen enough of 4chan and kiwifarms to be hesitant about putting personal information online <img src="http://www.snowboardingforum.com/images/SnowboardingForum_2015/smilies/tango_face_wink.png" border="0" alt="" title="Wink" class="inlineimg" /> But yeah, I'm sure it's not as dangerous as those public service announcements make it seem.


I don’t think anyone wanted your postal address buddy.


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## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

Manicmouse said:


> Stranger danger is a myth. The vast majority of violent encounters are between people who know each other, e.g. family!
> 
> Maybe this forum attracts the stalker, serial killer types though lol


Myth?.. @chomps1211 took the bait...


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

electricblue said:


> Not that I think you guys are untrustworthy or anything, but I'm not quite comfortable with the idea of sharing my location and meeting up in real life with people on a forum I just joined a day or two ago. I appreciate the thought though.


Lol. When I joined this forum, and some time later told hubby that we'll travel to Murica to meet some guys I met on the internet (here) he was like "are u crazy?!?". Turned out that the bunch of dudes we met in CO, and a trip later in Japan and another trip later in WA, or the guy who visited us over here (meanwhile met about 20ppl from this forum) were all no jack the rippers, but nice guys n gals which simply share the same passion: snowboarding. (If you need proof, check my trip reports; I survived those meet ups well with loads of laughs and good timed )

I understand your hesitation. Don't post name or face or address if you feel uncomfortable, that's good common sense; but your region is fine. No worries. The guys which are here since long time are just +/- normal ppl, who hang around here cos they love snowboarding. The weirdo internet garbage which pops up here every now and then is chased away quickly.


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## phillyphan (Sep 22, 2016)

neni said:


> Lol. When I joined this fotum, and some time later told hubby that we'll travel to Murica to meet some guys I met on the internet (here) he was like "are u crazy?!?". Turned out that the bunch of dudes we met in CO, and a trip later in Japan and another trip later in WA, or the guy who visited us over here (meanwhile met about 20ppl from this forum) were all no jack the rippers, but nice guys n gals which simply share the same passion: snowboarding. (If you need proof, check my trip reports; I survived those meet ups well with loads of laughs and good timed )
> 
> I understand your hesitation. Don't post name or face or address if you feel uncomfortable, that's good common sense; but your region is fine. No worries. The guys which are here since long time are just +/- normal ppl, who hang around here cos they love snowboarding. *The weirdo internet garbage which pops up here every now and then is chased away quickly*.


LOL like within their first post or two that don't fit the norm they are gone. Super quick.


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## drblast (Feb 28, 2017)

neni said:


> electricblue said:
> 
> 
> > Not that I think you guys are untrustworthy or anything, but I'm not quite comfortable with the idea of sharing my location and meeting up in real life with people on a forum I just joined a day or two ago. I appreciate the thought though.
> ...


Funny, nobody has chased me away yet.

OP, meet me at Stevens Pass this winter and I'll show you the ropes. Easy to find me; I drive the white van with the Free Candy sign on the passenger side.


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## Kenai (Dec 15, 2013)

Well, I was the one trying to get the OP’s location and I DO actually live in a white van! As long as there is no school w/in 1000 feet of the ski area parking lot, that’s where you’ll find me! (That’s a joke, OP!)

A little late season touring at Shames Mountain. 











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## chomps1211 (Mar 30, 2011)

Obviously you don't give out personal info or agree to meet up with someone private you just met on the interwebz. :blink: :facepalm3:

But you need to read *this* thread. All 21 pages of it. 
Neni's PNW meet up thread!

Then look up more of @neni's past trip report threads. The SBF ppl and the meet ups have been the *very best part* of being a member of this forum. 

Met the nicest, coolest, _weirdest_, kindest, ppl. (...not excluding myself from being one of the weird ones.) :laugh: Rode (...and survived) sum of the gnarliest shite of my life. 

Be smart about it, but don't be afraid to meet with & make new friends in a safe environment. :grin:


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## drblast (Feb 28, 2017)

Kenai said:


> Well, I was the one trying to get the OP’s location and I DO actually live in a white van! As long as there is no school w/in 1000 feet of the ski area parking lot, that’s where you’ll find me! (That’s a joke, OP!)
> 
> A little late season touring at Shames Mountain.


Fixed that for you:


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## 161210 (Feb 9, 2018)

Also....you will need a good helmet - check out something like giro's combyn....that type of helmet liner should be gentler to your brain when you catch an edge and get slammed onto your head (happens while learning...you don't have time to brace for it and you get slammed). Preventing serious injury with good gear and lessons = being able to enjoy snowboarding. Shred makes a similar helmet and this year Scott does as well....the "one and done" ski helmets typically have the wrong type of foam in them and if you look at the helmet you will see that the back of the head has thiner foam there in the liner - that is not what you want as a snowboarder. The rental helmets are typically the one and done types that you don't want on your head....so consider getting yourself a good helmet....many are multiple sport certified so it's a good investment (Shred helmets come to mind).

If you get yourself a skateboard with softer wheels (like 70's-80's duro meant for the street and not the park...that way you won't get stopped on every small stone in the street) and then learn to push yourself along with your rear foot and also to do carves you will be ahead of the game when you take your first snowboarding lesson. The ability to push your skateboard along with one foot directly (and being very comfortable with that) relates to being able to get off the lift easily on a snowboard. I have a few friends that are self taught and they still seem to have issues getting off the chairlift easily....that's something I never had issues with to include my first time on the lift and that is directly because of skateboarding. So you can do a little "homework" beforehand if you desire to make that first lesson go easy...

Enjoy your journey!


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## chomps1211 (Mar 30, 2011)

drblast said:


> Fixed that for you:


...aaaand I fixed _that_ for you! :laugh:


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## drblast (Feb 28, 2017)

chomps1211 said:


> ...aaaand I fixed _that_ for you! :laugh:


I couldn't figure out how to make the image inline. I bow to you, sir.


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## Kenai (Dec 15, 2013)

drblast said:


> Fixed that for you:




Excellent work! In my prior life I was a prosecutor. When I left, the victim advocates got me a cake with a big white free candy van in the icing.


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## basser (Sep 18, 2015)

Do you live in that van full time or is it just for snowboarding at mountains?


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## Kenai (Dec 15, 2013)

basser said:


> Do you live in that van full time or is it just for snowboarding at mountains?



Currently full time. Our blog is not up to date because I slacked off late this summer, but I’ll get it going again soon - www.powderhunds.com - and if you are interested you can see last winter’s travels. 



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## 16gkid (Dec 5, 2012)

I flew to Switzerland last season to meet up with Mr. and Mrs. Neni, still have my my liver and kidneys!


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## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

16gkid said:


> I flew to Switzerland last season to meet up with Mr. and Mrs. Neni, still have my my liver and kidneys!


Obviously you did not drink and eat enough to go into a cirrhosis and diabetic crisis...despite neni's best attempt.


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## SnowDragon (Apr 23, 2012)

16gkid said:


> I flew to Switzerland last season to meet up with Mr. and Mrs. Neni, still have my my liver and kidneys!


But didn't you already meet them in Washington or Oregon the year before?
And with a group of people from this forum?

i.e. you didn't just go to Switzerland by yourself and meet two forum members you hadn't met before.


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## mark0157 (Jan 9, 2018)

*Good lessons are worth it!!*

I grew up skiing and was pretty darn good. Switched over to snowboarding in high school, but didn't get too into it at the time. Fast forward 20 years and 3 kids...got our boys started at 4 and 6...assumed it was like riding a bike (and I wakeboard and surf...so what could go wrong)??? EVERYTHING...everything could and did go wrong. The hubs was beyond embarrassed! He refused to ride with me until I took a lesson :laugh2:

Not only could I not even make it down a tiny bunny hill at Buck Hill in MN, our two kids were freaking out, crying...it was an #epicfail and a true disaster.

The next day I signed up the boys for lessons at Afton Alps and signed up myself too. The instructors there are amazing and my boys (now 6 and 9) shred down the hill and in one two hour lesson with a good instructor I went from totally sucky to MN black diamonds...so yes, I think a lesson with a good instructor is totally worth it. That was two seasons ago...we are going to Park City in 42 days! :grin:

I take a lesson at the beginning of every season now to get back into it quick and this year our 4 year old will be out riding her Chicklet with her brothers!!


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## offthewallds (Dec 16, 2016)

Viper is laying down some sage advice. 

Some experience carving on a skateboard will help you progress from rudder turns to sidecut turns on your snowboard. Developing that understanding of the forces and sensations comes through riding, not tutorials.

Get some lessons so you can expedite your enjoyment of the advanced toboggan. ?


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## speedjason (May 2, 2013)

I think just with anything, for some people, they can just try things out and figure out what works what doesn't. For others, they need someone to teach them how to do it right.
The main thing is still ride as much as possible and try new things as much as possible.


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## timmytard (Mar 19, 2009)

phillyphan said:


> This is like saying: "Can YouTube videos replace med/dental school?" NO


What!!!!!!:surprise:
You mean you wouldn't let me remove a brain tumor from you, over some book leaning nerd with years of schooling.

I might be able to hook up free wi-fi in there somehow?
I'd throw that in for free to.

How can you possibly say no to that 
Pfft have fun paying for internet FOREVER. 


HAHAHA
TT



Having said that.
I watched tonnes of snowboarding videos before I EVER went snowboarding.
This was before quad corks in your ass.
Most of it was just big airs & sweet carves in powder.

I had this shit down in my head before I ever stepped foot on a snowboard.

Went to Whistler with my step mom & her ski racer kid for my first time boarding.
Got on it & rode away

Nobody ever told me about that toe side edge catch though & never seen anyone in a video eat shit at the speed of light from catching a toe side edge either.

That was quite the fuckin' eye opener
Holy fuck, why didn't anyone tell me that?

I never did that again, not like that first day


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## LALUNE (Feb 23, 2017)

People learn in different ways. Some people tried and figured out themselves.

I watched numerous popular "tutorial" videos and in hindsight I realize most of them are just wrong.

Imo the only two tutorial videos with in-depth details and elaboration of correct riding techniques that are worth recommending are:

1. Creepy basement video (youtube "Neutral stance and basic movement" and skip the butt cheek part if you are under 18) - Great for beginner
2. Ryan Knapton's how to carve series - missing how to pressure the edge in different states of turns but you can figure out yourself

A PASI level 3 or CASI level 4 instructor will teach you so much about how to ride efficiently with correct forms, the rest will be your milages on mountains.


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## chomps1211 (Mar 30, 2011)

Snowboard Addiction's tuts are really good. Well done, good quality & informative.


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## SnowDragon (Apr 23, 2012)

chomps1211 said:


> Snowboard Addiction's tuts are really good. Well done, good quality & informative.


Best vids out there imo.
Well worth the subscription cost.


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## SnowDragon (Apr 23, 2012)

LALUNE said:


> People learn in different ways. Some people tried and figured out themselves.
> 
> I watched numerous popular "tutorial" videos and in hindsight I realize most of them are just wrong.
> 
> ...


For a beginner, which I assume is the level of the OP, a CASI level 4 instructor is overkill. Level 2 at most for beginners, 3 and 4 for advanced riders.

Which country is PASI btw?


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## LALUNE (Feb 23, 2017)

SnowDragon said:


> For a beginner, which I assume is the level of the OP, a CASI level 4 instructor is overkill. Level 2 at most for beginners, 3 and 4 for advanced riders.
> 
> Which country is PASI btw?


You will be surprised about how much better level 4 instructors are compared with level 2 ones. But you are making a point, level 4 instructors would be more beneficial to riders who get their basics dialed.

PASI is US equivalent to CASI.


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## caboholic (Dec 24, 2018)

I watched a lot of online tutorials when I started. I'd say that they helped somewhat, but most of what helped me was time on the hill and switching to a board that was appropriately sized/shaped.

When I started, I was using a giant (to me) 1990's 163 O-Sin camber board that seemed at the time to turn like a barge (thanks @drblast), then I bought a 157 rocker board and suddenly turning wasn't all that hard any more. :grin:

Riding with friends who can point out your mistakes is also useful so that way you know if you're unconsciously doing things like keeping your legs too stiff or leaning backwards or what have you.


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## RayC (Oct 3, 2018)

Ryan Knapton tutorials and just trying to go out more often is how I learned to snowboard.

Snowboard addiction is pretty good


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## timmytard (Mar 19, 2009)

caboholic said:


> I watched a lot of online tutorials when I started. I'd say that they helped somewhat, but most of what helped me was time on the hill and switching to a board that was appropriately sized/shaped.
> 
> When I started, I was using a giant (to me) 1990's 163 O-Sin camber board that seemed at the time to turn like a barge (thanks @drblast), then I bought a 157 rocker board and suddenly turning wasn't all that hard any more. :grin:
> 
> Riding with friends who can point out your mistakes is also useful so that way you know if you're unconsciously doing things like keeping your legs too stiff or leaning backwards or what have you.


What O'Sin board?
3800?
Whatever happened to that old board?


TT


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## caboholic (Dec 24, 2018)

timmytard said:


> What O'Sin board?
> 
> 3800?
> 
> ...




I don’t think it was the 3800, but you’d have to ask @drblast to be sure. In fact, I think he even still has that board lurking around somewhere. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## drblast (Feb 28, 2017)

timmytard said:


> What O'Sin board?
> 3800?
> Whatever happened to that old board?


I still have it. It's a 163W, not sure the model name. Actually...maybe that's how I can float in pow these days.


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## caboholic (Dec 24, 2018)

drblast said:


> I still have it. It's a 163W, not sure the model name. Actually...maybe that's how I can float in pow these days.


If nothing else, your legs will get stronger from muscling the weight of it around.


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## cliffjumper68 (Nov 30, 2018)

LALUNE said:


> You will be surprised about how much better level 4 instructors are compared with level 2 ones. But you are making a point, level 4 instructors would be more beneficial to riders who get their basics dialed.
> 
> PASI is US equivalent to CASI.


After watching some of the "Instructors" at Breck today... I would definitely try and get someone who knows what they are doing, a more advanced instructor or private instructor from the area. There are tons of great people in these ski towns that have passes and for not so much coin will spend a few hours getting you on the basics.

Back when I learned it was at night (had to sneak in and hike the runs) and I think it actually helped cause you really feel what your body is doing. If you are super nervous that will screw you up, try something like snobahn


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## timmytard (Mar 19, 2009)

drblast said:


> I still have it. It's a 163W, not sure the model name. Actually...maybe that's how I can float in pow these days.


Was it a powder board?
Kinda sounds like it.

TT


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## drblast (Feb 28, 2017)

timmytard said:


> Was it a powder board?
> Kinda sounds like it.
> 
> TT


I checked it out, it's a Zen+ 163 wide. 4x4 inserts, very directional but not pow specific, heavy. Full camber as was standard in the 90's. Pretty sure the freeride decks I have today would outrun it in powder but it does have the volume going for it.


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## Radialhead (Jan 3, 2018)

The trouble with Snowboard Addiction is this: 



 I know that's wrong, so how can I trust their advice on stuff that I don't know? Are their videos that aren't aimed at complete beginners more reliable?

I've found the SnowProfessor videos best for complete beginners. They're not exactly top quality productions, but quite amusing & accurate. E.g.


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## Snowdaddy (Feb 2, 2018)

Radialhead said:


> The trouble with Snowboard Addiction is this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A_3_s8uK3_0 I know that's wrong, so how can I trust their advice on stuff that I don't know? Are their videos that aren't aimed at complete beginners more reliable?
> 
> I've found the SnowProfessor videos best for complete beginners. They're not exactly top quality productions, but quite amusing & accurate. E.g. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nKGfL2jdQZo


https://snowboardaddiction.com/blogs/learn-to-ride/first-turns

The one above is from their site.


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## Radialhead (Jan 3, 2018)

Snowdaddy said:


> https://snowboardaddiction.com/blogs/learn-to-ride/first-turns
> 
> The one above is from their site.


A better video, but the text that accompanies it still talks about initiating turns with your head, shoulders etc.


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## Snowdaddy (Feb 2, 2018)

Radialhead said:


> A better video, but the text that accompanies it still talks about initiating turns with your head, shoulders etc.



From their site:



> Your snowboard turns have to happen in one smooth movement. Start off in a heel side slide slip (body facing down hill). When you're ready to start a toe side turn, press down on your front foot. As your board starts to point down hill, rotate your head, shoulders and hips. Keep rotating all the way round until your front hand is pointing to the other side of the slope and you're on a toe side edge (body facing up the mountain).


The below I take as a way to keep from counter-rotating.



> Feel The Flow!
> 
> Never force your turns. When you initiate a turn, transfer the energy from your head, shoulders, hips, knees, ankles...into your board. This will ensure you're turns are clean and flow.


The counter-force from this comes from the snow up into the board and so on. It's just a way of describing the turning motion. As opposed to turning the board while rotating your body the opposite direction to counter the force with your body.


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

Radialhead said:


> The trouble with Snowboard Addiction is this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A_3_s8uK3_0 I know that's wrong, so how can I trust their advice on stuff that I don't know? Are their videos that aren't aimed at complete beginners more reliable?


Why do you think it's wrong? Sounds pretty reasonable. Until your lower body doesn't move independently, it's a good starting point to go top down (turn head, shoulers follow, hip follows a.s.o.)


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## Radialhead (Jan 3, 2018)

neni said:


> Why do you think it's wrong? Sounds pretty reasonable. Until your lower body doesn't move independently, it's a good starting point to go top down (turn head, shoulers follow, hip follows a.s.o.)


That's basically the opposite of modern thinking for beginner's turns. These days you're taught to start with foot pressure & everything else follows, i.e. bottom up not top down.


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## Radialhead (Jan 3, 2018)

Snowdaddy said:


> > When you're ready to start a toe side turn, press down on your front foot. As your board starts to point down hill, rotate your head, shoulders and hips.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Maybe I'm reading it wrong but they just seem to contradict each other.


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## chomps1211 (Mar 30, 2011)

Radialhead said:


> That's basically the opposite of modern thinking for beginner's turns. These days you're taught to start with foot pressure & everything else follows, i.e. bottom up not top down.



That in _no way whatsoever_ means that the top down method is wrong. Just different from the so called, _"modern"_ Thinking! (...and when has _that_ ever been known to be wrong?) :facepalm3:

I was started out with doing C turns on a fair slope. Those start from the top down. Weighting the desired downhill foot & Pointing into/thru your turn. Worked for me and many others. How do you figure its alla sudden wrong? Less advanced maybe. But then we're talking noobs here, not advanced riders.


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## chomps1211 (Mar 30, 2011)

...adding to my previous post, having a rider use his edges and turn from the bottom up would work better when they've had some experience with their edges in the first place. 

Not to mention,.. when was the last tome you saw a noob with proper fitting and set up gear? Try getting your edges to respond to subtle, below the waist shifts in movements when your too big rental boots are 3years old, all packed out & too soft. Plus your on a board that's to big/small for your weight on bulletproof, boilerplate ice! :blink: :shrug:


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## Radialhead (Jan 3, 2018)

chomps1211 said:


> That in _no way whatsoever_ means that the top down method is wrong.


It's not the way beginners are taught, therefore telling beginners to do that is wrong. If they start to learn like that, then have lessons, they'll waste time having to unlearn bad habits.



chomps1211 said:


> I was started out with doing C turns on a fair slope. Those start from the top down. Weighting the desired downhill foot & Pointing into/thru your turn. Worked for me and many others. How do you figure its alla sudden wrong? Less advanced maybe. But then we're talking noobs here, not advanced riders.


What can I say, it's simply not how you'd be taught these days by a top level instructor, any more than you'd be taught to turn by ruddering. It's not advanced, it's just the way it is. Materials technology probably has a lot to do with the change in approach.


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## Snowdaddy (Feb 2, 2018)

Radialhead said:


> Maybe I'm reading it wrong but they just seem to contradict each other.


Well, they say the turn is initiated by applying edges and shifting weight. How you get there is another matter. I'm not very experienced but I still guess that most experienced riders don't let the board start the turn all by itself by simply toe-squeezing.


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## LALUNE (Feb 23, 2017)

neni said:


> Why do you think it's wrong? Sounds pretty reasonable. Until your lower body doesn't move independently, it's a good starting point to go top down (turn head, shoulers follow, hip follows a.s.o.)


Like what neni said, this methodology is correct.


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## Radialhead (Jan 3, 2018)

LALUNE said:


> Like what neni said, this methodology is correct.


According to who? Not the level 4 instructor I started learning with last year (who's also the only woman in Europe qualified to examine level 4 snowboard instructors). I know lots of people learnt that way, but these days you're taught to pressure & twist the board with your feet & then knees/hips if required & the rest of your body just naturally follows.


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

Radialhead said:


> That's basically the opposite of modern thinking for beginner's turns. These days you're taught to start with foot pressure & everything else follows, i.e. bottom up not top down.





Radialhead said:


> It's not the way beginners are taught, therefore telling beginners to do that is wrong. If they start to learn like that, then have lessons, they'll waste time having to unlearn bad habits.
> 
> What can I say, it's simply not how you'd be taught these days by a top level instructor, any more than you'd be taught to turn by ruddering. It's not advanced, it's just the way it is. Materials technology probably has a lot to do with the change in approach.





Radialhead said:


> According to who? Not the level 4 instructor I started learning with last year (who's also the only woman in Europe qualified to examine level 4 snowboard instructors). I know lots of people learnt that way, but these days you're taught to pressure & twist the board with your feet & then knees/hips if required & the rest of your body just naturally follows.


Repeating a claim with increasing emphasis doesn't make the claim any more convincing. Your argument lacks the reasoning so far. "It is like that because I say so/s.o. said so" is just that, a claim. 

I don't know much abt snowboarding instruction (but have several decades experience with sports training with different trainers), dunno abt modern times vs old times and current trends. However, I know that the method you bluntly repeat to be "wrong" does work. You're sure you're not confusing "wrong" with "different"...?

Sure, I can imagine that with nowadays softer shorter rockered boards it's way easier for beginners to twist those boards and therefore instructors have adjusted their methods accordingly, but this doesn't mean that the other method is "wrong", just _different_. Maybe even obsolete for most, but not "wrong". Life rarely is binary. And I would be strongly suspicious abt a trainer who only has 1 pony in his pack. Cos a good trainer/instructor has a bag full of ways to get different ppl to the next level and can react if they have someone who doesn't pick it up with the current standard way. So... even if you'd claim that the pope said so, I still wouldn't be convinced. If you - however - deliver a good _explanation_ of _why_ something which worked for years suddenly is "wrong" instead of just different, then yes, sure, it's always cool to learn something new 

BTW: +/+ stances neither are "wrong", just different.


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## chomps1211 (Mar 30, 2011)

^what @neni said^

I watched the second vid. Aside from being more than a bit cheesy, it only shows a beginner how to make one turn at a time. 

At least by being instructed in those outmoded, ill conceived, _wrong_ C turns, I *was* linking turns. 

That snow doctor didn't link a single one of those J turns. They just did a series of individual and opposite maneuvers with no apparent link or transition. 

In fact they left the rider pretty much out of position for linking any turn by having them finish uphill. The instructor had to _hop_ turn the board to get into position for the next J! :shrug:

Finishing my C turn leaves me perfectly perpendicular to the fall line and in a good position for seamlessly switching edges and linking the turn. 

Now I don't know what some sort of governing body of instructors is saying is right or wrong. I only know that talking about squishing grapes with the exact _right_ amount of pressure to initiate a turn? Sounds a helluva lot more confusing than telling someone to simply point your head & shoulders into your turn. :shrug:


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## Snowdaddy (Feb 2, 2018)

Radialhead said:


> According to who? Not the level 4 instructor I started learning with last year (who's also the only woman in Europe qualified to examine level 4 snowboard instructors). I know lots of people learnt that way, but these days you're taught to pressure & twist the board with your feet & then knees/hips if required & the rest of your body just naturally follows.


There is not really any difference between what you say and what is said in the Snowboardaddiction video. The only difference (as I see it) is your "naturally follows".

Let's look at riding a bike. When you turn you naturally lean into the turn. You don't turn your bike and the body just follows. When you are an experienced rider, the leaning is natural. When you are learning to ride it's not that natural though. The natural part is because of the physics of centripetal force. :blahblah:

I'm just saying there are more than one way to look at initiation.


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## 16gkid (Dec 5, 2012)

Radialhead said:


> According to who? Not the level 4 instructor I started learning with last year (who's also the only woman in Europe qualified to examine level 4 snowboard instructors). I know lots of people learnt that way, but these days you're taught to pressure & twist the board with your feet & then knees/hips if required & the rest of your body just naturally follows.


Are you a big fan of common core math?


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## Radialhead (Jan 3, 2018)

chomps1211 said:


> ^what @neni said^
> 
> I watched the second vid. Aside from being more than a bit cheesy, it only shows a beginner how to make one turn at a time.
> 
> ...


Err it's one of a series, broken down into minor steps, like most snowboarding tuition videos on YouTube.

Being able to do something doesn't mean it's the correct way to teach someone else how to do it. You can learn to get down a hill by ruddering whilst wearing boots that are three sizes too big on bindings set at 0 degrees, but hopefully you'd raise an eyebrow if you saw an instructor telling someone to do it that way.


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## Radialhead (Jan 3, 2018)

neni said:


> I don't know much abt snowboarding instruction
> 
> And I would be strongly suspicious abt a trainer who only has 1 pony in his pack.


Heh. Sorry but given the choice between a random stranger on the internet (albeit one I respect based on previous postings)with "little experience of instruction", and someone who's considered one of the top female instructors in the world with 20 years of teaching experience, highest instructor level achievable (level 4 ISTD), along with Alpine, Nordic, Telemark, Adaptive, Ski & Freeski qualifications, I'm sure you'll understand which one I choose to follow. And I know you'd do exactly the same in my position. :smile:

I'm quitting this thread now (life's too short etc). But as I know I've seen you recommend the creepy basement video to beginners, I'll leave you with this.


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## chomps1211 (Mar 30, 2011)

:facepalm3:

10char


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## Radialhead (Jan 3, 2018)

Snowdaddy said:


> There is not really any difference between what you say and what is said in the Snowboardaddiction video. The only difference (as I see it) is your "naturally follows".
> 
> Let's look at riding a bike. When you turn you naturally lean into the turn. You don't turn your bike and the body just follows. When you are an experienced rider, the leaning is natural. When you are learning to ride it's not that natural though. The natural part is because of the physics of centripetal force. :blahblah:
> 
> I'm just saying there are more than one way to look at initiation.


If you're talking about motorbikes, that isn't actually how your turn, at least not at speed. You countersteer. Sure leaning will get the bike over eventually, but it's inefficient - just like initiating a snowboard turn with your head  Motorbikes are one thing I do know about, having been riding for 47 years.


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## Radialhead (Jan 3, 2018)

16gkid said:


> Are you a big fan of common core math?


I've never heard of it, I'd guess it's a US thing as you said 'math' (we call it maths over here in the UK).


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## Radialhead (Jan 3, 2018)

P.S. Chomps, did you read the one lonely comment at the bottom of the Snowboard Addiction page you linked to? It wasn't me, honest! 



> "Hi! I’ve been teaching snowboarding for 15 years. I LOVE your videos, but I have to say I’m disappointed in your suggestion to initiate the turns from the head down. I work very hard to make sure my students initiate turns from as low as possible and let the board do the work. Turning top-down often leads to ineffective turns, counter rotations and a lot of pain!"


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## Snowdaddy (Feb 2, 2018)

Radialhead said:


> If you're talking about motorbikes, that isn't actually how your turn, at least not at speed. You countersteer. Sure leaning will get the bike over eventually, but it's inefficient - just like initiating a snowboard turn with your head  Motorbikes are one thing I do know about, having been riding for 47 years.


It's not comparable because of a motorbike's mass unless you counter steer and also have to lean into the turn because you'll fall over otherwise. Counter steering is technique you can use while steering, but it's not applicable in every terrain. And that wasn't the point of the example at all. The point was that a beginner consciously needs to be aware of the centripetal force of a turn and prepare for it. And in the case of snowboarding there's also the counter-rotating to take into account.


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## chomps1211 (Mar 30, 2011)

Radialhead said:


> Heh. Sorry but given the choice between a random stranger on the internet (albeit one I respect based on previous postings)with "little experience of instruction", and someone who's considered one of the top female instructors in the world with 20 years of teaching experience, highest instructor level achievable (level 4 ISTD), along with Alpine, Nordic, Telemark, Adaptive, Ski & Freeski qualifications, I'm sure you'll understand which one I choose to follow. And I know you'd do exactly the same in my position. :smile:
> 
> *I'm quitting this thread now...*


Several pages too late IMO,.. :shrug:

...And given the choice between personal experience with proven techniques and testimonials from long time, known sbf members, and a forum newb with an answer for _everything?? _ I know which one *I'm * going with.


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## 16gkid (Dec 5, 2012)

Radialhead said:


> :blahblah::blahblah::blahblah:


When it comes down to it, ur just a barely novice snowboarder spouting off knowledge you heard from someone else, so dont let the door hit you on your way out.


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## Radialhead (Jan 3, 2018)

chomps1211 said:


> Several pages too late IMO,.. :shrug:
> 
> ...And given the choice between personal experience with proven techniques and testimomials from long time, known sbf members, and a forum newb with an answer for _everything?? _ I know which one *I'm * going with.


Just one more try in case it wasn't absolutely clear. I'm not saying other ways don't work, I'm just saying that isn't how beginners are now taught. The instructor who commented on that page agreed, the creepy basement video agrees, pretty much every other YouTube video I've seen about 'beginner turns' agrees, & I'm sure any instructors you ask will agree.


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## f00bar (Mar 6, 2014)

There is no substitute to a nice scorpion and telling yourself not to do whatever you did that way again.


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## neni (Dec 24, 2012)

Radialhead said:


> Just one more try in case it wasn't absolutely clear.* I'm not saying other ways don't work*...


Well, good then. Because that's what you did. Repeatedly. And that's the reason for this urgh discussion. Nobody here doupts your instructor. What we objected against is your repeated claim of the other way being "wrong". That was the trigger word. And I doupt that your instructor ever used that word but that you misinterpret. Anyway.


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## Radialhead (Jan 3, 2018)

16gkid said:


> When it comes down to it, ur just a barely novice snowboarder spouting off knowledge you heard from someone else, so dont let the door hit you on your way out.


The advantage of being a 'barely novice snowboarder' is I'm the only person in this discussion with very recent experience of how beginners are taught. Your experience on the other hand appears to extend to 'how to be a twat'. Congratulations!


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## chomps1211 (Mar 30, 2011)

Radialhead said:


> Just one more try in case it wasn't absolutely clear. I'm not saying other ways don't work, I'm just saying that isn't how beginners are now taught. The instructor who commented on that page agreed, the creepy basement video agrees, pretty much every other YouTube video I've seen about 'beginner turns' agrees, & I'm sure any instructors you ask will agree.


Oh it's clear,...! You claim the top down method is wrong. It's not! It's _different_ from what you were taught. 

Is it better? More effective? Dunno! I know what worked for me and others. 

I do know that What I saw & heard espoused in that SD video concerning pressuring edges sounded weird & confusing & "I" already know how to flex & steer with my feet, knees & waist. Dunno what a noob would make of it. :shrug:

Btw,... the creepy basement vid is aimed more towards someone who can already get down the hill without sideslipping, can link their turns and wants to progresss. In _that_ instance ,... talking about turning from the waist down is definitely appropriate.


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## Radialhead (Jan 3, 2018)

neni said:


> Well, good then. Because that's what you did. Repeatedly.


I really, really didn't. I said it was 'wrong' because it doesn't match anything I've encountered about teaching beginners, but I never said it doesn't work. Honest.


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## 16gkid (Dec 5, 2012)

Radialhead said:


> The advantage of being a 'barely novice snowboarder' is I'm the only person in this discussion with very recent experience of how beginners are taught. Your experience on the other hand appears to extend to 'how to be a twat'. Congratulations!


The disadvantage of being a novice, is that you literally know "fuck-all" besides what someone else tells u, and of course you do what every novice does, you go online and you preach about this brand new knowledge you barely even understand, to a bunch of people that have been doing this for years and years. thats called being a CUNT mate. Also remember when you said you were leaving a few posts back??


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## Snowdaddy (Feb 2, 2018)

I don't think name calling is productive either. :whiteflag:


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## Snow Hound (Jul 21, 2012)

f00bar said:


> There is no substitute to a nice scorpion and telling yourself not to do whatever you did that way again.


But what the fuck was it?


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## Rip154 (Sep 23, 2017)

Alot of what instructors are saying is just to convince you to try different elements of riding. If you ride alot, you get better. Splitting up the movement into different elements is one of those things that just seem to work well for teaching.


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## Donutz (May 12, 2010)

This thread has reached the meta stage, where everyone is arguing about what they are or were arguing about and who said what and so forth. Time to move on.


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