# Why are people snowboarding with their rear hand raised?



## ridinbend (Aug 2, 2012)

It's a balance thing. I do it without even knowing it. Kinda like why dogs have tails.


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## tokyo_dom (Jan 7, 2013)

My arm comes up for balance too, and sometimes i catch myself showing traces of the invisible girlfriend habit. But to bring it all the way up so my hand is the same height as my head (and holding it there) is no longer about balance, or it didnt feel that way when i tried it.

For example this:
https://www.instagram.com/p/BPyq1ZSBIgV

He is obviously a very good snowboarder, and probably doesnt need his hand up for balance... But its all i could look at, waiting for him to high-five someone as he goes down the mountain.


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## ridinbend (Aug 2, 2012)

tokyo_dom said:


> My arm comes up for balance too, and sometimes i catch myself showing traces of the invisible girlfriend habit. But to bring it all the way up so my hand is the same height as my head (and holding it there) is no longer about balance, or it didnt feel that way when i tried it.
> 
> For example this:
> https://www.instagram.com/p/BPyq1ZSBIgV
> ...


I agree completely, looks like he's waving at his camera. My wife flaps her arms like a bird sometimes, it makes me laugh. I don't really know, arms gotta do something right?


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## dave785 (Jan 21, 2016)

You'll notice that when he holds the camera behind him, he also sticks his front hand forward (look at his shadow)... it's to get used to having weight there for when you're holding a go pro selfie stick. 

If you have your hands down, and then you hold just one hand out to the nose or tail, it'll mess up your balance. The hand up to the back offsets the weight of the go pro in the front. It also gets you used to having the hand up in the back for when you're actually holding the gopro behind you. The inverse of this is true when you have the gopro behind you. 

I have quite a few wipeouts on camera from when i switched the gopro from in front of me to behind me without moving my other hand and it messed up my weight causing me to wash out.. this seems like a good fix.


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## tokyo_dom (Jan 7, 2013)

Thats a possible reason for this guy, but i notice it a lot on riders that arent holding gopros too. More often than not its the bib-wearing nonchalant park riders, which is why i figured it was a style thing

(I bought a bib this season though, and i love it.)


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## snowklinger (Aug 30, 2011)

I'm always trying to acknowledge my fans on the chairlift.


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## ridinbend (Aug 2, 2012)

Heelside waves

Raise your hand if you like to carve by Ves, on Flickr

Untitled by Ves, on Flickr

2017-02-01_11-48-27 by Ves, on Flickr

2017-02-01_11-49-09 by Ves, on Flickr


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## robotfood99 (Mar 19, 2016)

When I do this its most likely just my middle finger in my mitt aimed at the skier posing right in the middle of the slope.


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## tokyo_dom (Jan 7, 2013)

I should clarify, I don't mean raising your arm during a sick heelside slash, that's virtually unavoidable. I mean raising your hand and leaving it there for pretty much the whole run... 



snowklinger said:


> I'm always trying to acknowledge my fans on the chairlift.





robotfood99 said:


> When I do this its most likely just my middle finger in my mitt aimed at the skier posing right in the middle of the slope.


Lol! 

I'm going to hypothesize that it came from the tits-deep pow surfers who needed to keep their trailing hand up to prevent drag, and then migrated to the i-ride-my-powder-board-in-the-park guys, and then to anyone with steeze


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## ridinbend (Aug 2, 2012)

tokyo_dom said:


> I should clarify, I don't mean raising your arm during a sick heelside slash, that's virtually unavoidable. I mean raising your hand and leaving it there for pretty much the whole run...


Oh Gotcha. Gopro selfiestick offset balancing act is my hypothesis.


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## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

my 2 cents

mostly due to a natural intuitive response

some for style

some folks are cheetahs

most folks are generally unawares

some pro's do and some don't

in variably there is always some arm waving 

however why...is there any benefit...other than acknowledging fans?

One thing to look at ... is what is the shoulder doing and why? and by extension what does the arm do?

Ime...shoulder and arm movement is something to be aware of and can enhance your riding, if you are aware of the effects.

Do this drill...go to a mellow green/blue run and just cruise at a low-medium speed in a neutral position in a straight line...but swing your arms back and forth...like when you are walking...but give them a good swing...swing them slowly and then faster. Notice what happens? Of course you are going to turn…merely by swinging your arms...depending on what side your leading hand/arm is on...heelside or toeside…and subsequently the trailing arm will be over the opposite edge.

Experiencing this you can use this to your advantage to throw spray slashes, to pre-rotate and etc. But it can also be a disadvantage, in the case you are waving your rear arm high in the air…like a cheetah tail. This is because you are inadvertently increasing your swing weight and thus are not able to anticipate or pre-respond to the next move/s. Its like an ice skater doing pirouettes…with arms out they spin slower…but bring the arms/hands closer to the axis of spin and the speed of the spin increases. So for snowboarder to increase the speed and efficiency of movement it is good to keep your arms/hands close to your body. Thus the instruction is to “glue your elbows to your ribs”…and throw your shoulders (in a duck and weave boxing like fashion) to enhance your desired movement. You want to throw your shoulders but not extend your arms and hands because it will slow you down…or even prevent you from being able to be in a good position for the following desired move. For example…say you are popping cross-unders…it’s easier to keep your leading shoulder straight down the fall line…keeping your trailing arm glued to the ribs…and thus not much movement of the trailing shoulder….and you should be able to pop the cross-unders more quickly….than if you had your trailing arm flaying about being a counter-weight.

Anyway…watch vids of riders, surfers, skaters, and diving board folks… how the pros use and throw their shoulders to do their flips/spins and whatnot.

Point is you don’t want your waving to the fans to fuckup your show.

btw watch temple...which imo is one of the smoothest natty riders


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## ridinbend (Aug 2, 2012)

wrathfuldeity said:


> Anyway…watch vids of riders, surfers, skaters, and diving board folks… how the pros use and throw their shoulders to do their flips/spins and whatnot.
> 
> Point is you don’t want your waving to the fans to fuckup your show.
> 
> btw watch temple...which imo is one of the smoothest natty riders


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## chomps1211 (Mar 30, 2011)

:shrug: >


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## Fielding (Feb 15, 2015)

tokyo_dom said:


> My arm comes up for balance too, and sometimes i catch myself showing traces of the invisible girlfriend habit. But to bring it all the way up so my hand is the same height as my head (and holding it there) is no longer about balance, or it didnt feel that way when i tried it.
> 
> For example this:
> https://www.instagram.com/p/BPyq1ZSBIgV
> ...


The inimitable RK addresses this way of riding at 50 seconds in. He says that it's dogshit.

https://youtu.be/mvADH_dLb4w


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## speedjason (May 2, 2013)

If you are trying to initiate some rotation, arms out helps a lot.
However, depending on what you are trying to do, arm is not needed.
For me, I normally don't stick my arm out but when I ride switch, having the arm out helps changing edges but of course my switch is not as strong as my goofy. I can carve with hands tied in my back. Having arms out allows you to use the weight of the arms to switch edges much quicker. They are like giant pendulums.
Look Ryan Knapton being badass on his board again.


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## SGboarder (Jun 24, 2012)

wrathfuldeity said:


> btw watch temple...which imo is one of the smoothest natty riders


Yes, always loved the riding in that clip. Incidentally also makes my point from the other thread: TC (like many freeriders) mostly rides with an open upper body and almost never in the cereal box


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## Fielding (Feb 15, 2015)

I notice that when I get nervous about edging over ice I tend to want to lift my trailing arm into the invisible girlfriend pose. It's a bad habit. But it comes so naturally! I think it's a helpful to seek balance by spreading your weight up top. It allows you to make micro balance corrections that would be more difficult if you were just standing up stick-straight. Kind of like the way tightrope walkers carry long poles. I try to fight the invisible girlfriend pose because it looks dumb. Whenever I see someone doing it they look nervous and uneasy. 

Having the rear arm go up and down as you make turns is something different. I think that early on (like the 1990s) it was a necessary mechanical means of enhancing downforce the get the board on edge and to flex a little to make decent turns. It was necessary to pump the upper body in order to overcome limitations in early board, binding, and boot designs. As we got stiffer boots and bindings, and boards with sidecut, better flex patterns, and other turn-enhancing properties, we no longer need to bob up and down, flapping our arms, to make the board respond to turn inputs. 

Riding powder, like the yellow-clad bro in the OP video, is a different thing. Instead of turning off your edges, like you would on hard pack, you make turns off the base of your board --kinda like you do with a surfboard (discounting the fins --but actually there's a current trend where some bros are riding finless...never mind, I digress). Upper body mechanics are different in powder. Because you aren't locked in by your edges, you need to exaggerate the base angle of your board to the snow to turn effectively. In order to do that you have to do more twisting upper body movements. That's one reason, I think, why yellow bro is doing the royal wave as he carves the pow. It's also possible that he is just striking a pose. I wouldn't put that past a bro who matches his goggles to his pants to his jacket. Or was that a onesie?


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## BoardWalk (Mar 22, 2011)

Balance.....everyone deals with it differently.


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## Rogue (Nov 29, 2014)

This thread is hilarious but I disagree with the GoPro selfie theory. I'm the GoPro selfie queen and my arm doesn't do that every time. More like the bird flapping ridinbend mentioned hahaha 

My friend does the stick straight out arm thing and I think it looks ridiculous and distracting and I've noticed more pros doing but not all the same. I'm sure Wikipedia has the answer LMAO


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## f00bar (Mar 6, 2014)

I assumed it was practicing for the audition for the remake of "Zoro, the gay blade".


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## david_z (Dec 14, 2009)

Are you describing the phenomenon known to some as "Burton Arms"? Seriously watch any Burton video it's like all of their team riders do this all the time.


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## freshy (Nov 18, 2009)

I think for the most part it is something one does without noticing. On a related note sometimes on groomers and cat tracks I notice my front arm/hand will naturally go into a t-rex or the universal gay hand pose. I've never really thought about or looked back to what my trailing arm is doing.


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## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

^ ^MJ heelside







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## jjj604 (Dec 16, 2015)

david_z said:


> Are you describing the phenomenon known to some as "Burton Arms"? Seriously watch any Burton video it's like all of their team riders do this all the time.


haha i was thinking of this video at the start of the thread but you beat me to the punch




i tend to keep my arms to the side but when consciously trying to keep my arms up while making sweeping turns, i find that it makes the turns feel more flowy provided you're going fast. if you're going slow, you're going to look like that lasso guy in knapton's video. my guess on why the majority of park riders do it nowadays is partly due to the the amount of rotations people are working into their tricks; more rotation + less grabs (270s on/off + bigger spins on smaller jumps) means they don't have to keep their arms close to the board. having the arms up helps with stalling out spins by mixing in some counter rotations


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## tokyo_dom (Jan 7, 2013)

david_z said:


> Are you describing the phenomenon known to some as "Burton Arms"? Seriously watch any Burton video it's like all of their team riders do this all the time.


YES! thats it... I like that term.

So maybe its just the cooler version of the invisible girlfriend. I am going to practice my Burton Arms so that when things get sketchy i can look stylish instead of dorky

Also thanks to Wrath for commented on the shoulder position. I suppose that its inevitable that i will put my arms out for balance at times but as soon as you start opening your shoulders you will look like a beginner noob.


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## Argo (Feb 25, 2010)

OMG, lmao. 

Oh and thats how i ride. 



wrathfuldeity said:


> ^ ^MJ heelside
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## jae (Nov 27, 2015)

like nico? (former burton rider) I do that too.. mainly when I'm carving fast and low heel side so I can drop it going fast and low toe side so I can touch the snow. it feels more fluid to me...


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## wakalino (Feb 15, 2017)

david_z said:


> Are you describing the phenomenon known to some as "Burton Arms"? Seriously watch any Burton video it's like all of their team riders do this all the time.


Lol, i've been calling it Mark McMorris Trailing Arm Syndrome


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## raoul duke (Feb 23, 2017)

Style master? If i looked like Craig when riding i'd be ok with that....

won't let me post link but search craig kelly style master?


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