# Vail Resorts/Epic announces reservation system for this season



## BurtonAvenger (Aug 14, 2007)

Honestly this makes the most sense. And yes, I've seen the people losing their shit and freaking out.


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## Jkb818 (Sep 28, 2019)

Reservations process should be interesting. Hopefully it’s non-issue.


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## f00bar (Mar 6, 2014)

So as a season pass holder if you can't get in on a day you want you're doing is basically paying them not to ride.

Don't get me wrong, I understand why they are doing this. But as a pass holder you are now essentially paying them money so you can ask for their permission when you can go. Which will be made worse by assholes who just log in first thing every day and book everything whether they really intend on going or not, locking other people out.

My question is how are the lodges going to work? I don't worry so much about lift lines. You're outside. But what's their plan on handling the 11-1 rush on $18 chicken fingers?

This season is going to slaughter the few independent mountains remaining, especially in the north east.


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## Jkb818 (Sep 28, 2019)

Def stings a bit as a pass holder to potentially not be able to ride on certain days. I agree. Although I don't see how they could avoid this situation. It might actually end up being a cool thing on pow days if crowds get limited. Of course that is IF you're one of the lucky ones that gets a reservation for that day.


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## Scalpelman (Dec 5, 2017)

I got the email and knew there would be a thread going. I wonder if it will really make an impact for frequent riders? If the two-trips-a-year riders will still show up? Can’t imagine newbies waiting in the madness rental lines with masks all pissed off and sweating.

I will be looking WAY forward and reserving days. But maybe it will be more bomber, side hit, pow friendly with reduced capacity.


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## Jkb818 (Sep 28, 2019)

Scalpelman said:


> But maybe it will be more bomber, side hit, pow friendly with reduced capacity.


that would be nice


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## kimchijajonshim (Aug 19, 2007)

I'm a torn what to do. Worst case scenario I have my splitboard and can spend the winter touring (hoping resorts stay open so the idiots stay on the lifts, the avy numbers from last spring were crazy after the resorts shut down). I am considering picking up a pass to a smaller independent resort (Sugar Bowl) to avoid the mega pass crowds. But then again the mega pass crowds might not be an issue with the new capacity limits.

I will definitely avoid certain mountains. As Tahoe rider, Squaw Valley (or the resort to be renamed), Northstar, and Heavenly are pretty heavily reliant on gondolas, which I'd be super hesitant to share with randos in this climate. I've done a bit of traveling around the west coast this season for hiking and camping, and the number of mouth-breathers lacking any sense of basic risk mitigation and probabilistic thinking is fucking staggering.


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## BurtonAvenger (Aug 14, 2007)

I've been talking to people all day and should have a video dropping explaining it to you die hard riders so you don't lose your shit. In all honesty I think this is going to make the people that really want it appreciate it more and set them up for more riding. The lazy asses are going to be upset.


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## OldSnow (Nov 20, 2019)

Vail ran the same system here in Australia this season, and honestly it worked out pretty well.

If they were getting their processes right here at Perisher to use in your resorts, then I'd expect to see staff outside the lodges/food joints restricting numbers that are allowed in with mandatory face coverings.
Personally, I enjoyed the mountain more even though it cost more to ride this year - less overall people in lift lines and definitely easier navigating runs because of it.. just be happy they're opening!


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## Jkb818 (Sep 28, 2019)

OldSnow said:


> Vail ran the same system here in Australia this season, and honestly it worked out pretty well.
> 
> If they were getting their processes right here at Perisher to use in your resorts, then I'd expect to see staff outside the lodges/food joints restricting numbers that are allowed in with mandatory face coverings.
> Personally, I enjoyed the mountain more even though it cost more to ride this year - less overall people in lift lines and definitely easier navigating runs because of it.. just be happy they're opening!


That’s encouraging...it’s possible that this could be a change that most prefer with or without Covid


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## Donutz (May 12, 2010)

I wonder if they’ll do it in Whistler (not a given)


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## Manicmouse (Apr 7, 2014)

Mt Ruapehu in NZ has been operating a carpark booking system since coming out of lockdown in order to control numbers. This was heavily criticised at first but most think it's worked out okay. When the carparks are released each week they almost instantly get fully booked out which sucks!


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## Donutz (May 12, 2010)

Donutz said:


> I wonder if they’ll do it in Whistler (not a given)


No such luck. I just got that email.


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## Jkb818 (Sep 28, 2019)

Donutz said:


> No such luck. I just got that email.


Welcome to the club


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## SoaD009 (Jan 9, 2020)

I’m hoping it at least cuts down on resort crowds.


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## BurtonAvenger (Aug 14, 2007)

For the people that can't grasp it here you go.


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## Jkb818 (Sep 28, 2019)

BurtonAvenger said:


> For the people that can't grasp it here you go.


Some of your finest work angry


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## BurtonAvenger (Aug 14, 2007)

I don't know if it's the finest, but saw some people were not exactly understanding what's happening with this and spreading misinformation. So fuck it, break it down so it's easily digestible and hopefully it makes people go. Well shit OK I should get this product or I shouldn't.


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## f00bar (Mar 6, 2014)

Fuck you BA, give me my fucking money back! Now!

Of course, the way things are shaping up the first positive that contact traces back to a resort is going to close it all anyway. Which given a 2 week lag gives it about 4-6 weeks after opening day.


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## Clayton Bigsby (Oct 23, 2012)

BurtonAvenger said:


> For the people that can't grasp it here you go.


I guess I’m one of those crying bitches, the only part of this video that matters to me and my riding buddies is from minute 7:05 - 7:36 and the statement “you’re not going to ride”. 

For the last 34 years we have religiously watched NOAA, NWAC and local news for those storm/powder days coming up to plan all of our sick days, but now instead of texting/calling each other to plan on ripping powder, all of us have to get on line and individually sign up for that powder (hopefully we are able to), I see at least two problems with this 1) what if for whatever reason one or two in our party were unable to login in and reserve that day ? As you said “you’re not going to be able to go”, even though you made the effort to save cash and buy a pass. 2) not sure where you live but way up here in the PNW storms often change their course sometimes for the better, sometimes for the worse and for a group of guys that only ride powder days this is VERY important. So let’s say the forecasters are saying Wednesday is going to be THE DAY, so on Sunday we all log in and beg to ride on Wednesday, but now it’s Monday night and NOAA has changed THE DAY to a day sooner and Tuesday is now THE DAY, so now what ? We just miss out on a killer powder day ? Cause we all know that life and especially powder days can easily be planned out weeks/months in advance.

We’ll all play their little game but my only hope is that for us Midweek only powder only riders it won’t be as big of an issue.


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## BurtonAvenger (Aug 14, 2007)

Guess you're going to be evaluating that 7 day forecast a lot harder now and looking at historical snow falls/storm cycles to try to pinpoint when it's going to hit. Once again as I said for the die hards it's not going to be an issue but for the try hards they'll be pissed. You have 7 priority days and 7 week of days, that's potentially 14 days straight you could block out.

If you follow the 7 day forecast and know a storm is coming in sometime between Monday and Thursday, all you need to do is on Sunday reserve the whole week. That way if it comes in on Tuesday it's blocked out if it comes in Thursday you blocked it out. Cancel the days you don't go, or don't show up, then on the following Sunday you'll get your 7 week of days back. Or if its a Midweek holiday use a priority day and once you use it you get that back yet again. You're really only adding a 5 minute inconvenience to yourself if you're actually serious about going riding. Now those freak overnight snow squalls that drop something might have you scrambling and I stress might. The potential to reserve morning of will be there and that's going to be a hit or miss situation. So you might miss out there.

Think of the alternative which could be like March 17th, where nothing was open. As someone that won once on the A Basin lottery they did and had a friend win and bring me, this is WAY better than that experiment. I MEAN WAY BETTER!



f00bar said:


> Fuck you BA, give me my fucking money back! Now!
> 
> Of course, the way things are shaping up the first positive that contact traces back to a resort is going to close it all anyway. Which given a 2 week lag gives it about 4-6 weeks after opening day.


All money to me is non refundable. 

We had an employee outbreak here this summer. Locked down staff housing, quarantined those employees, drastic cleaning of areas they worked. As a county as a whole we're up 40% for visitors over last year, yet we only have 25% lodging open for hotels, Airbnb's are popping off, but as a county with ramped up testing 70% of positive tests are tourists, locals are testing lower even though more of us are getting tested than the tourists. They've also found that there's a huge cluster of us that got it back between December and February here and they believe the athletes brought it in with them after Air and Style in Beijing. We were kind of a ground zero, but now you're talking about new policies with riding gondolas, chairlifts, buses, interacting inside, etc. 

Do I think we won't have an outbreak? No, we definitely will but as a county and a community we are doing everything we can to limit ourselves to not having the issue, other counties/states well they wild ya'll. But I think if things are done right we can make the shred season happen. 

Just be smart and cautious and you'll more than likely be fine.


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## eelpout (Mar 1, 2009)

anyone know if people on buddy passes would be allowed on the hill for the early season? Southern hemisphere folks have any experience with this?

*Edit: *hmm found this. doesn't look like it:

*



Q: How can I register friends for Buddy Tickets and Ski-With-A-Friend days?
A:

Click to expand...

*


> Buddy tickets and Ski-With-A-Friend tickets will be available for purchase beginning December 8, 2020. For the 2020/21 season, you must be a pass holder to purchase a Buddy or Ski-With-A-Friend ticket online (you may not send your benefits to others to redeem online). Pass holders will be able to utilize their Buddy and Ski-With-A-Friend benefit tickets on any day when there is available capacity for lift ticket purchases. We strongly recommend purchasing your Buddy or Ski-With-A-Friend tickets in advance through epicpass.com to secure your ticket before traveling to our resorts. The pass holder must be present at the resort for pick up.


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## BurtonAvenger (Aug 14, 2007)

There is but not like how it used to be. You can't walk up and use it, basically week of reservation style starting December 8th.


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## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

Clayton Bigsby said:


> I guess I’m one of those crying bitches, the only part of this video that matters to me and my riding buddies is from minute 7:05 - 7:36 and the statement “you’re not going to ride”.
> 
> For the last 34 years we have religiously watched NOAA, NWAC and local news for those storm/powder days coming up to plan all of our sick days, but now instead of texting/calling each other to plan on ripping powder, all of us have to get on line and individually sign up for that powder (hopefully we are able to), I see at least two problems with this 1) what if for whatever reason one or two in our party were unable to login in and reserve that day ? As you said “you’re not going to be able to go”, even though you made the effort to save cash and buy a pass. 2) not sure where you live but way up here in the PNW storms often change their course sometimes for the better, sometimes for the worse and for a group of guys that only ride powder days this is VERY important. So let’s say the forecasters are saying Wednesday is going to be THE DAY, so on Sunday we all log in and beg to ride on Wednesday, but now it’s Monday night and NOAA has changed THE DAY to a day sooner and Tuesday is now THE DAY, so now what ? We just miss out on a killer powder day ? Cause we all know that life and especially powder days can easily be planned out weeks/months in advance.
> 
> We’ll all play their little game but my only hope is that for us Midweek only powder only riders it won’t be as big of an issue.


PM sent


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## Yeahti87 (Jan 17, 2019)

I couldn’t convice some of my shred buds to get a season skipass for the incoming season in Europe. Not sure if we will have the same regulations, I hope not, but when I sent them this link and they saw 7:05-7:36, they bought their season tickets in 5 min.


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## MrDavey2Shoes (Mar 5, 2018)

Can you imagine what a shit show it would be if the mountains were in southern states like Florida? Holy fuck, that would be the whole basket ruined.

I mean obviously that makes no sense, but Tennessee has a top 5 video now lol


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## Jkb818 (Sep 28, 2019)

think they will limit the amount of season pass purchases?


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## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

Jkb818 said:


> think they will limit the amount of season pass purchases?


Some resorts are definitely thinking and implementing this.


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## BurtonAvenger (Aug 14, 2007)

Jkb818 said:


> think they will limit the amount of season pass purchases?


Vail has so much data from the way Epic Passes work with the RFID that they know exactly who goes where, how many people are where, etc. etc. There's a magic number in there that will be the cut off, this push back to the 17th of September for season pass sales is because they haven't reached that threshold. For the 19/20 season they sold 1.2 million passes, that pass window closed in November to buy it. The word is they figure they're halving season pass sales so that's only 600k globally. 

From talking with various people that work for them pass sales are high in certain areas and low in others. The big areas that are low are the people that travel to destination resorts. That's the target $$$$ demographic they're worried the most about. People that live here that go for 2 to 4 hours a day, not exactly their money makers, and they're pretty much assuring that they should get out to ride. But Joe from Hollywood that brings his whole family for 8 days at X mas, stays in lodging, eats on mountain, eats in their restaurants at night, and pretty much only uses their services, that's who they want to make sure gets their pass, gets their X mas ski trip in, and drops 10 grand. 

To put it into perspective for you guys. I have an IKON and A basin pass already paid for. I'm looking at Epic, Loveland, and maybe Ski Cooper. I don't really foresee me leaving the state to shred anywhere else this year, just doesn't seem smart or cool with how things are going. But my theory on getting 2 to 5 passes is this:
1. If there's limits/reservations I up my chances of shredding.
2. Almost all resorts are offering some kind of insurance/assurance guarantee so if there's a lock down again or closure I can forfeit it to next season. Thus saving me cash next year.
3. It will raise my cost per day to shred, but it forces me to have to use each pass x number of days to get the total value. A typical year for me on a pass is between 3.49 to 12.99 a day to ride. My estimate is that with this system I'll be paying low end 7.99 to high end 26.99 a day to ride. That's still cheaper than no pass and just buying day tickets. 
4. Peak times when everyone is fighting, antsy, and usually not in a good mood, I can be selective with where I go and if that means I go to a less busy resort that has peak numbers more akin to a mellow Wednesday at a mega resort I'll be less aggressive or anxious. It makes for an overall better riding situation for everyone. It also takes away from the congestion that the mega resorts will have. 
5. In a worst case scenario if one resort on a mega pass closes, I have potential to access others or I can go to a smaller resort still. While it would suck to have to drive daily to WP, Steamboat, Vail, Aspen, Eldora, at least I'd have that potential which keeps my business afloat. 

I think if people just take a smart look at how often they shred and where they shred they can evaluate what is the best option for them this way. If I was living in Denver and having to deal with I70 traffic and fighting known crowds I'd probably by pass the Epic, do IKON so I could get Eldora, WP, and maybe a Loveland Pass. Set my schedule so I'd work Saturdays because FUCK THAT, and go. But living up here and typically riding Sunday through Friday I feel this best secures me for what I need.


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## lab49232 (Sep 13, 2011)

This was really the only ossible outcome for resorts but also without a general idea of what capacity reduction is it's pretty hard to put any faith in to the idea that season pass holders will be able to mostly ride when they want. I know it didn't work that way at Bachelor when they reopened last season, or Timberline. Id love to know what % reduction is beause then it would be fairly easy to gt a rough idea of just how hard it will be to get a reservation. If capacity is reduced by 5-10% it's probably a non issue. If capacity is reduced by 50% or more compared to the previous year..... Even with a season pass you're going to be fighting a lot of people to get your name on the list


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## f00bar (Mar 6, 2014)

Pretty sure you'll see 50% capacity or less as a requirement. Things are a shit storm now, and it's Summer. I know it's Apples to Oranges, but those movie theaters that are open here are set at <25% capacity or 25 people per theater, whichever is less. I guess the good news is no skiers will be riding your board in the lift line.

CO at least has enough in-state, but take a look at VT. They need people from MA,CT,NY,NJ and there's a pretty good chance that intestate travel will again be prohibited. If you're from one of those states then the real issue is whether you'll be allowed to leave your own state to get into VT. Actually VT goes by county, and if you look at the list today, the vast majority of counties within a day outside of VT require a 14 day quarantine upon entry.

Of course, this just means people will ignore the quarantine rules. And we all know where that will just lead us, at least in the northeast. VT has been pretty isolated from this all. But they have to remain that way. The largest city in VT has about 45k people. They simply don't have the medical capacity for a large outbreak and the Governor will shut it all down real quick.


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## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

If I wasn't already set-up for BC....that shit should be flying off the shelves...prepare...pre-order...well its a bit late for pre-orders. In fact received my season's Sparks stuff in June 

On another note, I could imagine that some resorts will resort to strict limiting and policing of parking...no parky no skiee.

Me thinks that resorts will limit their season's pass sales to about 50%.


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## f00bar (Mar 6, 2014)

wrathfuldeity said:


> If I wasn't already set-up for BC....that shit should be flying off the shelves...prepare...pre-order...well its a bit late for pre-orders. In fact received my season's Sparks stuff in June
> 
> On another note, I could imagine that some resorts will resort to strict limiting and policing of parking...no parky no skiee.
> 
> Me thinks that resorts will limit their season's pass sales to about 50%.


I don't think they'll limit sales at all. Worst case is a partial refund of a sale they wouldn't have gotten if they had a limit. The reality is sales will be down regardless, if for no other reason than unemployment driven, they aren't going to help that. I'll be curious to see how the few remaining small independent mountains handle it compared to the Vail conglomerate. Vail certainly has a bit more liquidity and more importantly ability to raise cash than the few remaining family owned that remain. Those places have no choice but to grab as much as they can.


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## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

f00bar said:


> I don't think they'll limit sales at all. Worst case is a partial refund of a sale they wouldn't have gotten if they had a limit. The reality is sales will be down regardless, if for no other reason than unemployment driven, they aren't going to help that. I'll be curious to see how the few remaining small independent mountains handle it compared to the Vail conglomerate. Vail certainly has a bit more liquidity and more importantly ability to raise cash than the few remaining family owned that remain. Those places have no choice but to grab as much as they can.


Baker is offering last year pass holders first dibs, after that...

"To help regulate capacity during these times of COVID, we will be assessing the total number of pass sales...and may need to limit total pass sales after that. Pass availability after September 30th is to be determined and will be announced Oct 1 or sooner. Pass availability may be capped at any point after Sept. 30, 2020."

So to read between the lines. Sell enough passes to cover only the anticipated season's operational and fixed expenses. Then cut off the sale of passes and switch to only daily lift sales via the reservation system...which is gravy (net income)...and hope for the best considering the covid circumstances.


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## f00bar (Mar 6, 2014)

wrathfuldeity said:


> Baker is offering last year pass holders first dibs, after that...
> 
> "To help regulate capacity during these times of COVID, we will be assessing the total number of pass sales...and may need to limit total pass sales after that. Pass availability after September 30th is to be determined and will be announced Oct 1 or sooner. Pass availability may be capped at any point after Sept. 30, 2020."
> 
> So to read between the lines. Sell enough passes to cover only the anticipated season's operational and fixed expenses. Then cut off the sale of passes and switch to only daily lift sales via the reservation system...which is gravy (net income)...and hope for the best considering the covid circumstances.


Or, marketing 101 would say a good way to get people on the fence to buy your product is create a false sense of future unavailability. These places typically don't have great debt to cash ratios and the banks don't give a fuck, and running expenses will be higher not lower than previous years. 

But I don't think it'll matter, the economy right now will drive sales down. How many Baker passes won't be bought thanks to layoffs at Boeing and the local economic hit just from them, for example. I can say where I work we're tied to the hip to Boeing, are actually larger than they are, and thanks to furloughs and likely impending layoffs most of the people I know are holding off on passes.


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## Jkb818 (Sep 28, 2019)

Utah economy is doing quite well. I think the big variable this season will be visitors from out of state and international. Also wondering if we weekday volume will be impacted a bit because of kids learning virtually. Just glad I own a split board.


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## Lamedog (Apr 9, 2020)

I'm assuming most of you guys are north America based?

I'm currently looking at the logistics and more importantly rules around travelling from the UK to Whistler.

Thinking about working from there and boarding at the same time.

But it's a tricky thing to work out: when to book long term accomodation, buy a lift pass, book flights. 

Feels like a headache! But maybe this is the best opportunity given that I think many won't want the same headache.


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## lab49232 (Sep 13, 2011)

f00bar said:


> Or, marketing 101 would say a good way to get people on the fence to buy your product is create a false sense of future unavailability. These places typically don't have great debt to cash ratios and the banks don't give a fuck, and running expenses will be higher not lower than previous years.
> 
> But I don't think it'll matter, the economy right now will drive sales down. How many Baker passes won't be bought thanks to layoffs at Boeing and the local economic hit just from them, for example. I can say where I work we're tied to the hip to Boeing, are actually larger than they are, and thanks to furloughs and likely impending layoffs most of the people I know are holding off on passes.


Agreed 100% on the marketing spiel

As for the economy will drive down sales.... There's a giant misconception about this. Covid has actually been EXTREMELY profitable for a lot of families, or rather, families classified as middle income and higher have largely seen that they are spending far less money while also benefiting from no automatic student loan pausing, government checks, an ABSOLUTELY INSANE housing market, and especially from just saving money out of inability to spend and fear. And most of these middle and upper income people are also people who did not lose their job or suffer work setbacks.It's really a financial burden we've set purely on low income and small business owners which is a whole other problem for our approach but that's a different conversation. The most important one is who makes up the majority of the ski and snowboard industry: middle and upper income families. They have the money to buy passes, extra money to buy passes in fact.

But yes my feeling is likely extreme reductions in capacity which makes this chipper "oh it's ok you just have to plan your reservations" more a "pick exact days you want to ride the second reservations open and then fight like cats for it and then just hope you get lucky any reserved days are good"

If Vail believes there will be no issue it's a simple PR statement: "Last year our resorts averaged only 25% of daily traffic as season pass holders, As such limiting our capacity to 40% should provide adequate room for you to comfortably buy your pass and ensure you'll get to ride most days you wish."


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## Phedder (Sep 13, 2014)

Lamedog said:


> I'm currently looking at the logistics and more importantly rules around travelling from the UK to Whistler.
> 
> Thinking about working from there and boarding at the same time.


As it is currently, you wouldn't even be allowed to board your flight from the UK, no non-essential travel. I know of many people with valid working visas who have been turned away at the airport because they didn't have a valid job offer from within Canada, despite their own immigration website stating that isn't a requirement. It appears many border officers aren't up to date with their own rules and regulations, and ultimately the decision is up to them as an individual at the time. 

Trying to get through so you can work remotely and snowboard? Gonna have to jump over a lot of hurdles for that one. 

But hey there's still a few months for them to update policies, keep your fingers crossed.


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## Craig64 (Jul 16, 2015)

OldSnow said:


> Vail ran the same system here in Australia this season, and honestly it worked out pretty well.
> 
> If they were getting their processes right here at Perisher to use in your resorts, then I'd expect to see staff outside the lodges/food joints restricting numbers that are allowed in with mandatory face coverings.
> Personally, I enjoyed the mountain more even though it cost more to ride this year - less overall people in lift lines and definitely easier navigating runs because of it.. just be happy they're opening!


I have never had to book with my Epic pass at Perisher this year. Just rock up and ride. The car park was 400 metres into overflow on the road for Mon and Tuesday then 3/4 full Wed to Fri. Longest wait was 10 to 15 (rare), after lunch almost straight on.


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## WiseGuyRiver (Dec 27, 2019)

eelpout said:


> Let the grousing begin.
> 
> https://www.epicpass.com/info/letter...r-pass-holders
> 
> ...





OldSnow said:


> Vail ran the same system here in Australia this season, and honestly it worked out pretty well.
> 
> If they were getting their processes right here at Perisher to use in your resorts, then I'd expect to see staff outside the lodges/food joints restricting numbers that are allowed in with mandatory face coverings.
> Personally, I enjoyed the mountain more even though it cost more to ride this year - less overall people in lift lines and definitely easier navigating runs because of it.. just be happy they're opening!


Thanks for the insight! This should be higher up so people see it.


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## BurtonAvenger (Aug 14, 2007)

Craig64 said:


> I have never had to book with my Epic pass at Perisher this year. Just rock up and ride. The car park was 400 metres into overflow on the road for Mon and Tuesday then 3/4 full Wed to Fri. Longest wait was 10 to 15 (rare), after lunch almost straight on.


 This is what I keep hearing. Either worst thing imaginable, or no problems at all with Australia. The other thing with Australia is limited resources, limited parking, and what is it 3 resorts on Epic down there vs 25 plus in North America. I bet Perisher or Hotham at it's busiest is still not even half occupancy of a place like Keystone. On a plus side Vail essentially made them the guinea pig to figure out all the kinks. 

On another note Loveland is around 30 days to snow making.


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## lab49232 (Sep 13, 2011)

Well I did some digging and got a hold of some of my old friends who still work in resort front offices. Turns out I've been out of the resort industry for longer than I realized!

Riding has become controlled by season pass holders more than I could have imagined. In previous years with rising lift ticket prices and the addition of mega passes (Epic, Ikon) over 70% of all ski visits were by season pass holders. On the low end at a a few small resorts they averaged a little over 50% of people on the hill each day had a season pass. Most of the time, the larger the resort and pricier day ticket price (aka Vail resorts) the heavier the volume of pass holders.

Whats that mean? First off, I hope you're a pass holder because day lift tickets are likely going to be near impossible to get most places. Of course this is actually ideal now as resorts have switched to expecting a huge portion of their money from season passes, and in a season of Covid uncertainty, they'll be far more active in seeking those sales to guarantee income. This is why you'll see reports of limited pass sales and pass holder only reservations and other incentives or scare tactics to encourage you spending your money up front.

So you're a pass holder are you good now? Well based on the average number of visitors who are pass holders, if resorts have to limit capacity by more than 30% of last year you're going to have to fight people to use your pass. If they have to limit capacity by 50% or more, get over the days of picking when you ride even with a pass. Reservation availability wont meet a fraction of the demand so you'll have tons of season pass holders sitting at home unable to use their pass.

If Vail wants to alleviate this concern they can easily release the numbers, and those numbers run no risk to the company, So there's no reason not to. Unless of course, the numbers contradict their indication that capacity and demand are adequate.


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## eelpout (Mar 1, 2009)

Reservation Details | Epic Season Pass







www.epicpass.com


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## Lamedog (Apr 9, 2020)

I'm still stuck at the first hurdle. Can't get in to North America!

7 days in Europe only isn't worth the pass price. So will probably end up refunding.

I wonder how many sales were outside the N.America. Could be more availability for you guys than you realise.


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## Jkb818 (Sep 28, 2019)

Lamedog said:


> I'm still stuck at the first hurdle. Can't get in to North America!
> 
> 7 days in Europe only isn't worth the pass price. So will probably end up refunding.
> 
> I wonder how many sales were outside the N.America. Could be more availability for you guys than you realise.


Sure hope it ends up being a locals season...no offense


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## Lamedog (Apr 9, 2020)

Ha. No worries. I'd be the same if I was a local. Unfortunately I have several £££s tied up in aborted hotel bookings from earlier this year.

I guess i could always apply to be a liftie!


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## eelpout (Mar 1, 2009)

anyone else try getting in line?

Number of users in line ahead of you: 81970
Your estimated wait time is: more than an hour​Serving: ~50k guests per hour​​ 
Status last updated: 11:50:01 AM MT​*Message last updated: 11:09 AM*
​Thanks for your patience. We still have availability at every resort for every day of the core season! We look forward to seeing you on the mountains this winter!​


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## Jkb818 (Sep 28, 2019)

Yep this is pretty fucking crazy hope it’s not like this all the time


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## Donutz (May 12, 2010)

It was over 100k for me when I joined the line. I doubt it'll be like this for more than today. Right now, everyone on the planet is trying to book xmas holidays. Once that's gone, it'll dribble off.


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## lab49232 (Sep 13, 2011)

Jkb818 said:


> Yep this is pretty fucking crazy hope it’s not like this all the time
> View attachment 155403


Yup, kind of called that one. The math was simple and just didn't make sense despite the optimism a select few people tried to pump through. 

Meadows on Hood is still trying to sell us the idea that they're just going to get people to spread out their riding throughout the day this year instead of people all showing up for first tracks and thus eliminate any crowding. next I imagine they'll be telling us theyre going to get pigs to fly. Gear sales remain through the roof meaning resort demand remains through the roof.


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## Jkb818 (Sep 28, 2019)

As someone who lives locally I don’t really have any days in mind that I care to be there other than when it snows.


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## lab49232 (Sep 13, 2011)

Jkb818 said:


> As someone who lives locally I don’t really have any days in mind that I care to be there other than when it snows.


And those spots are getting reserved right now by people a month or two months in advance. You're hoping that it snows on a day not preseason booked, and then that you se the snow first and manage to get your reservation for one of the remaining spots in before other people see. There will be zero powder days not fully booked well ahead of time at many resorts. Reservations are going to make powder chasing an impossibilty for many. Instead its just gonna be a hope you get lucky on a day you pre reserved.


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## Jkb818 (Sep 28, 2019)

lab49232 said:


> And those spots are getting reserved right now by people a month or two months in advance. You're hoping that it snows on a day not preseason booked, and then that you se the snow first and manage to get your reservation for one of the remaining spots in before other people see. There will be zero powder days not fully booked well ahead of time at many resorts. Reservations are going to make powder chasing an impossibilty for many. Instead its just gonna be a hope you get lucky on a day you pre reserved.


Or have your wife work there and have zero restrictions. 🤓


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## lab49232 (Sep 13, 2011)

Jkb818 said:


> Or have your wife work there and have zero restrictions. 🤓


Hmmmmm..... that's so crazy it just might work! I have a feeling you'll be pissing off a lot of people on this forum all season long.


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## Jkb818 (Sep 28, 2019)

It might not matter....shit is really hitting the fan here. I am fully prepared to just be using my splitboard this season at this rate. At this rate we'll probably be seeing 5K cases a day or more in a few days.









2,987 more COVID-19 cases, 17 deaths reported Friday as Utah breaks records again


Utah's number of COVID-19 cases has increased by a record-high 2,987 on Friday, with 17 more deaths reported, according to the Utah Department of Health.




www.ksl.com


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## drblast (Feb 28, 2017)

I'm pretty sure whoever owns Vail has a pretty extreme fetish for making people wait in lines. Reminds me of the cable company in South Park.


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## lab49232 (Sep 13, 2011)

Jkb818 said:


> It might not matter....shit is really hitting the fan here. I am fully prepared to just be using my splitboard this season at this rate. At this rate we'll probably be seeing 5K cases a day or more in a few days.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Oregon just announced increased restrictions and close to lockdown again as well

Gov. Kate Brown to announce two-week ‘pause’ on social activities for select counties to slow coronavirus spread


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## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

Baker on 11/6/20 "paused" further sales of season passes...figured that might happen...kind of think they might not open it back up. And the snow machine has started up...woohoo!!!


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## Jkb818 (Sep 28, 2019)

Utah just finally decided to have a statewide mask mandate.


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## eelpout (Mar 1, 2009)

Jkb818 said:


> Utah just finally decided to have a statewide mask mandate.


it's not the outdoors and mask wearing that I have a problem with, one can get a balaclava with a filter holder. it's everything that involves going _indoors_ on the hill. what'll be open, will they make us wait outside in a line to go in and someone tosses a pack of $11 _Slim Jims_ at us, just to have to turn around and eat outside at 3 deg. F?


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## Jkb818 (Sep 28, 2019)

eelpout said:


> it's not the outdoors and mask wearing that I have a problem with, one can get a balaclava with a filter holder. it's everything that involves going _indoors_ on the hill. what'll be open, will they make us wait outside in a line to go in and someone tosses a pack of $11 _Slim Jims_ at us, just to have to turn around and eat outside at 3 deg. F?


I totally get that. I live locally to the mountains so I won’t be eating at the mountain and really having to deal with other headaches. I couldn’t imagine spending thousands of dollars to travel with my family to go to a ski resort this winter though. Sounds like a massive headache.


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## WigMar (Mar 17, 2019)

I was pretty bummed last week. Maybe I had unrealistic expectations of getting into the reservation system and booking a day. I was quick on the draw when the waiting room opened up, and was like #150,000 in line. I got in two hours later, and all the spots were booked up. Ah well. Good things come to those who wait. 

Today had the same beginning with a different outcome. I was behind only 1000 people, and got in within a few minutes. Even better, days at Keystone and Breck were still available! 

Maybe the system was swamped the first day it opened up as pass holders tried to lock in their priority days. Hopefully it'll be easier to make reservations week of that it was that first day. I'm honestly glad I got a Loveland pass as well. It'll be great to be able to go riding on a whim like usual.


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## Jkb818 (Sep 28, 2019)

WigMar said:


> I was pretty bummed last week. Maybe I had unrealistic expectations of getting into the reservation system and booking a day. I was quick on the draw when the waiting room opened up, and was like #150,000 in line. I got in two hours later, and all the spots were booked up. Ah well. Good things come to those who wait.
> 
> Today had the same beginning with a different outcome. I was behind only 1000 people, and got in within a few minutes. Even better, days at Keystone and Breck were still available!
> 
> Maybe the system was swamped the first day it opened up as pass holders tried to lock in their priority days. Hopefully it'll be easier to make reservations week of that it was that first day. I'm honestly glad I got a Loveland pass as well. It'll be great to be able to go riding on a whim like usual.


Yeah I’m hoping as things dissipate it’s not a big issue but I did hedge my bets with a pass to another resort in addition to epic.


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## lab49232 (Sep 13, 2011)

Whats the latest on availability? They still have spots available for every day?


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## Scalpelman (Dec 5, 2017)

lab49232 said:


> Whats the latest on availability? They still have spots available for every day?


Epic NE resorts seem ok.


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## Lamedog (Apr 9, 2020)

Any views on Whistler. Still looking to travel in Jan. But might as well refund my lift pass now if it seems I am won't get days.


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## Donutz (May 12, 2010)

You won't be able to get into Canada. We won't be lifting international restrictions any time soon.


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## Jkb818 (Sep 28, 2019)

Donutz said:


> You won't be able to get into Canada. We won't be lifting international restrictions any time soon.


If I was Canada I wouldn't want anyone from the US visiting either.


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## lab49232 (Sep 13, 2011)

Jkb818 said:


> If I was Canada I wouldn't want anyone from the US visiting either.


Canada is no longer America's hat, America is now Canada's underwear.


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## Jkb818 (Sep 28, 2019)

lab49232 said:


> Canada is no longer America's hat, America is now Canada's underwear.


Germ infested underwear


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## Donutz (May 12, 2010)

Whistler is one of the Vail properties (not news to anyone) and is using the same reservation system. But while things have been insane for the US-based resorts, you can still literally reserve any set of dates at Whistler, even xmas holidays. I really don't think Whistler is going to be as busy this year.


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## MrDavey2Shoes (Mar 5, 2018)

If I was Canada I dont think I'd ever let our mouth breathing asses back in. You guys got a good thing going right now!


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## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

Here's the solution. Any day in which it snows more than 6 or 8+ inches over night are for season pass holders only or for folks (tourists) that have made reservations at least 3 weeks in advance...and no daily lift tickets will be sold that day.


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