# Help boy just won't listen to me....vid



## Cr0_Reps_Smit (Jun 27, 2009)

well right off the bat his stance is pretty off, his shoulders are open causing his legs to wanna match up with his upper body and putting him on his heel edge so he slides out like that. he also needs to bend his knees a little more to help with the landing. when he lands itll be easier for him to stick it if he comes down on his toes.


you can really see how open his shoulders are by the way he has his back arm, i like to call that the "mystery date" because he has his arm out like its around someones shoulders. the best way to fix that is in his general riding since if he hits jumps like that, chances are he rides around like that too. as much as he'd probably hate by the sounds of it, all you can really do is keep reminding him to keep his shoulders closed when hes riding when you catch him doing it.


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## slyder (Jan 18, 2010)

The mystery date I like that !!! I really haven't watched his normal riding, that is a great point and I will start to look at that.
I haven't sent him this video yet, as he really wasn't responsive to reviewing videos. So I've been posting them to his FB in a very fun way hoping he would watch them and maybe critique his own form. 
I'm trying everything I can think of.

Thanks Cro


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## C.B. (Jan 18, 2011)

Who cares let him just have fun.


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## Cr0_Reps_Smit (Jun 27, 2009)

C.B. said:


> Who cares let him just have fun.


well by the sounds of it hes getting very frustrated and not having fun because of washing out on his landings. plus its his dad, can you really tell him to not care about his son getting frustrated over something?

in my opinion, video review is one of the best things to do to help correct your form. something that you might think feels alright could actually be completely off and once you watch yourself most of the time you can see that.


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## slyder (Jan 18, 2010)

Plus one of these times he could plant on his ass and really get hurt and end his season. Who really wants this to happen to his son or anyone????


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## CheoSamad (Nov 18, 2011)

One thing that would help would be for him to bend his knees when he lands and stay squared up with his knees and shoulers.


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## gprider_capita (Feb 17, 2011)

Also try to teach your son how to pop off of jumps and to absorb the impact of the landing with his legs


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## ThunderChunky (Oct 1, 2011)

OR at least suck his knees up when he goes off the jump and let them down right before he lands.


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## BurtonAvenger (Aug 14, 2007)

Get him a hooker and then he'll respect and listen to you often. Or just hire a bigger kid to mock him till he does it right.


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## PanHandler (Dec 23, 2010)

ride up to one of the other park rats and pay him 5 bucks to go up to your son and say "Hey bro if you close your shoulders youll probably stomp it first try"

Kids tend to listen to their peers and i know i would probably take the advice of a random park rat that i know is a better rider than me over my dads advice any day.


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## slyder (Jan 18, 2010)

Wolf your right in that statement as is everyone in what is happening and yep this is the same thread as last time but more of how do I help him as to knowing what he is doing. I do know an instructor. I may ask my boy if he wants me to get him a lesson which would be a legit lesson. I don't want to do it on the sly like others suggest, great idea, but not the way I want to approach it. Could back fire, maybe asking a fellow rider to point out a tip or two but the cash idea I think is to sly. Our hill has some great riders and I know a few from being on the hill a lot. I may ask them to give him some input.

Another angle I just thought of: I know I told him and showed him but maybe he is struggling with the concept of "opening up" or opening the shoulders. He may not totally see/get that point and not want to feel embarrassed or dumb for not knowing it....a thought

Again we have a great relationship, I just can't coach him. Not sure when/where we lost that but we did and I wish we didn't

BA I have enough raging hormones in the house with 2 teenage boys and a tween daughter, not ready for the sex angle, I have enough just keeping them on the right path :thumbsup:


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## jlm1976 (Feb 26, 2009)

*Avoid calling it a lesson*

Sounds silly but to a teenager saying "do you want me to get you a freestyle lesson with a good instructor! " will turn him off. However calling it a freestyle clinic and finding him a coach will probably make him more enthusiastic. Many resorts stop calling advanced classes "lessons ". Instead it's a 2hr "park session with one of their coaches" or a steeps clinic with a qualified guide.


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## Tarzanman (Dec 20, 2008)

Improve your own skills and then show your kid up at the park while girls are watching.

Make sure to call him "sonny-boy" while you are twisting 360's in the pipe. Tousle his hair after you pull off gnarly tricks and tell him that he's lucky to have an old man who is a bad ass shredder.

If he has trouble with a jump, ask him if he wouldn't be happier riding skis on a green groomer. Then throw up the shocker (or some other gang sign) to reinforce how core his pops is!

Follow these steps and I predict a happy, successful snow vacation.


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## Donutz (May 12, 2010)

Tell him that moguls are the buried bodies of kids who wouldn't listen to their fathers.


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## Death (Oct 21, 2010)

He's super stiff right from the takeoff and it negatively affects him all the way through. Not only is this bad style, it's causing his washouts and he tries to land without actually absorbing any impact in his knees. It's hard to tell from the video, but maybe give him a bit wider stance.

Enough trail and error should fix this if he won't take advice. The little kickers he's hitting don't have nice landings to begin with.


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## BoardWalk (Mar 22, 2011)

BurtonAvenger said:


> Get him a hooker and then he'll respect and listen to you often. Or just hire a bigger kid to mock him till he does it right.


Fail safe parenting tips, and they work for almost any situation.


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## PanHandler (Dec 23, 2010)

i wouldnt literally pay some park rat to give my child advice. i was being kind of tongue in cheek about it while getting my point across.


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## snowklinger (Aug 30, 2011)

Maybe approach the topic of progression as a group, instead of individually, and then pursue individual coaching for all 3 of you with separate goals that you can all set yourselves. Chances are if he's as frustrated as you say, he'll pursue and own it.


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## slyder (Jan 18, 2010)

snowklinger said:


> Maybe approach the topic of progression as a group, instead of individually, and then pursue individual coaching for all 3 of you with separate goals that you can all set yourselves. Chances are if he's as frustrated as you say, he'll pursue and own it.


I'd like to do a group lesson for all of us but it's just not in the budget. Plus the oldest is still out, sees the Dr on the 20th. We find out if his season is over or he can ride again.

I've talked with a instructor that recommended a park instructor. I'm going to talk with him next opportunity and approach the boy about me getting him a "Park Coach" that sound about right???

I really want to fix this so 1: he doesn't get hurt 2: don't want these bad habits to keep being reinforced 3:he can enjoy it more and can keep progressing


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## snowklinger (Aug 30, 2011)

Alot of kids lack the maturity to know they have a cool dad, don't feel bad about that either. (flashback like 10 years ago when the Osbournes was on tv)Even Ozzy's kids, in front of friends, roll their eyes and act like their dad is a giant turd, which obviously has everything to do with them being kids and nothing to do with whether or not Ozzy is cool :thumbsup:


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## john doe (Nov 6, 2009)

He needs to start trying to do nose grabs. Sure, he may land sideways a few times but then he will see he is starting off sideways.

Did you ever suggest to him the exercise I suggested in the previous thread?


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## MsLizzie (Jan 30, 2012)

Mm, this might come too late and as more of an afterthought, but I think kids always want to feel equal to their parents and teenagers even more so.. (and yes yes, I know, not possible, but it doesn't stop them from wanting it). Therefore having to receive tips from parents/older siblings often makes them feel even more inferior than they already do. So I agree, a park session with someone closer to his age would be perfect (though it would have to be served on a platter of "other kids are doin' it too"). And other than I would say just go and have fun WITH him - when you do the things he does and he sees that he is not the only one messing up, it might help him to relate to you more easily.

In any case, I agree, it's really cool that you care, so don't let this little hickup stop you! Just don't do all the work for him in that caring department, let him do some of it - you might be surprised


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## wrathfuldeity (Oct 5, 2007)

Teens hate to be told what to do. So another approach is to ask them; by playing the humble but dumb ass old geezer. So the trick is to frame the question well. 

An example: "Son, I've been trying to hit that jump, but when I go off, I think I open my shoulders and then get twisted up and eat it toe edge on the landing. What do you think I could do?...How do you keep your shoulder's closed during the approach and take-off?"

Its kind along the line of old med school...see one, do one, teach one. It's at the teach one stage where a person really learns their shit by trying to explain or show it to another person.


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## slyder (Jan 18, 2010)

wrathfuldeity said:


> An example: "Son, I've been trying to hit that jump, but when I go off, I think I open my shoulders and then get twisted up and eat it toe edge on the landing. What do you think I could do?...How do you keep your shoulder's closed during the approach and take-off?"


Great idea to ask his help for me to encourage dialogue, wish I would have tried this a while back. I'm still not sure if he knows or quite understands what opening shoulders actually means and he knows I land all the jumps so not sure this would work.



John Doe said:


> Did you ever suggest to him the exercise I suggested in the previous thread?


John, he really shuts down when I try to get the conversation or point out tips to him so I never had the opportunity to suggest it. It is a great tip and I am still trying this to help me.

At this point I'm gonna ask if he would like to get a "park coach" not entirely sure how to phrase it. Seems to be a balancing act, as to not make him mad or shut down....

Thanks for all the support from everyone on this subject even though it's so similar to the other post and helping me support my kids. I truly enjoy riding with them and spending time with them and I hope they enjoy this time too. They might realize it later in life and that is fine with me. Looking back and saying I really enjoyed that time as a kid riding with my dad. My fear is next year the oldest starts to drive and I know he will want to ride with his buddies more, so hoping he will still have time for "ole Dad"


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## dreampow (Sep 26, 2011)

In my experience kids do the opposite of what parents tell them (I did).

So just tell him to open his shoulders up even more and stand up as tall as possible:laugh:.

Seriously a clinic is a good idea, a younger cool looking rider will be the ideal coach (who has some skills obviously).
Or a nice looking young lady coach?


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## slyder (Jan 18, 2010)

We are supposed to go to the best hill in our state if the oldest gets released from his injury.
Maybe I can use this to encourage a coach. It will help in your fun at Granite Peak I can tell him. Sell it on the fun we'd have at the best hill in our area.

Sound like it is phrased/work???


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## slyder (Jan 18, 2010)

That is a great idea, as it would be new for both of us, since mine are terrible to start with. We do have some very good small rollers that this would be perfect on. We are going Saturday and I will try this. 

That's a trick he hasn't tried and I will phrase it that BS is way cooler. If he doesn't want to try a BS 180 for himself he can spot me and I can use open shoulder form to help him see it like you suggest and I would probably wash out anyway. Giving him the chance to watch and see how important form is and like you said hoping the light goes on.

Since your thinking cap is on, any suggestions how I start.
closed shoulders or open?
No knee bend?
lack of rotation?

*****I need to be a careful as to *not mock* his riding technique. Man, who knew teaching a simple straight air would be so complicated....*****

another tool in the arsenal of teaching tips !!!


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## john doe (Nov 6, 2009)

Mock his riding technique. He doesn't even know he is doing what he is. You could just start doing jumps like him and falling. Act like you lost how to do a jump. Then ask for him to watch you and tell you what you are doing wrong. With the BS 180 attempt technique I just see him trying to spin while still facing forward. He will do a BS 90 land on his heel edge, and knock him self out.


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## nomembername (Mar 21, 2011)

You ever think about getting him on here to look at the tips, tricks forum and watch some videos? 

If he knew someone with Cro's ability was giving him advice im sure he would be more inclined to follow it, rather than from his dad who isnt a park-expert. No 14 yr old wants to be told what to do by their dad. That wont happen until he leaves the house and hes calling you up to figure out how you did it all these years.


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## gprider_capita (Feb 17, 2011)

Slyder, you should have taken your son to the mighty midwest camp back in late december early january. They stopped at tyrol and granite peak. I attended the camp and it was an amazing experience for my first camp and i got a helmet which i use all the time now because i never use to have one. I learned alot of new tricks and had a great time too, consider taking your son next year to the camp and you wont regret it.


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## slyder (Jan 18, 2010)

Yes I was going to do MMWT at Tyrol Basin but it was out of my budget and over New Years eve and New Years day and we were having a house full of friends so that didn't work out. Granite Peak stop I would also have to do a hotel and take off work so couldn't do that.

I am trying to save for a camp for the kids. Per Wolf that would be awesome but again outside of my means.

nomembername, I so wish he would watch videos. He does a little on youtube, I have the box set of Snowboard Addiction training videos and he won't watch them. I just get a grumpy "I'm not gonna watch them" really don't know why and that is upsetting and enraging at the same time as they would truly help him.


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## snowklinger (Aug 30, 2011)

even newbie BS 180's are hella steezy.

fuck I know mine are :laugh:


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## mitch19 (Jul 27, 2011)

Not saying this will work for him but personally this has helped me so far.

Get a bigger jump.

Whenever I go through the smaller park and hit smaller jumps I always feel off and even stack, after stacking off the smaller jumps and rails went back into the M/L side of the park and was hitting 25-35footers and landing them perfectly. I personally find the take off and landings better with bigger jumps.


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## slyder (Jan 18, 2010)

John Doe and others have mentioned this, we just got back from a very short outing today. I watched him ride just on the groomers and boy is he "open". He is almost looking straight down the hill and while bombing blacks....

He hit a few jumps today, they were pretty icy even though the hill itself was in good shape. He did same as usual. Facing straight down hill, straight legs, washing out heelside on the landing.
Positive note, we stepped aside from the lift line and I showed him exactly his body language and explained how his lower body was just catching up to his upper body while he was in the air. Causing him to land on his heelside edge and wash out. He listened a bit but also blamed the jump :dunno: 

I just worry *a lot* as if something would happen it would be to him out of my 3 kids. I can totally see it unfold as we are riding, straight legs, open shoulders, as soon as he leaves the jump his board rotates just 30degrees or so and then he slides out.

Saving up for a camp or coach for next year as the season here is fast approaching an end.

Note: it amazes me how fast he can bomb and stay in control with his upper body facing downhill like that....


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## uh oh a virus 2 (Sep 1, 2011)

All he really has to do is watch the video and he can tell whats wrong... he just looks awkward in the air. He should slightly pop off the lip, level his board out in the air, and when he lands bend the knees a little bit to absorb the impact. Also he should keeps his arms in. It just looks better. Don't be so scared, hitting kickers is so much fun! I remember when I was like him and it pissed me off to no end! Once he starts to land a few he will pick it up in a heartbeat.


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