# To wear or not to wear a Helm?



## Peaceryder

Just interested in freestyle riders thoughts on using helmets. I'm a pure freerider who hasn't had much experience with jumping/jibbing other than backcountry kickers into deeeeep pow, so I never wore a helmet, even though my mom bought me one about 12 years ago, lol. Do you guys bring your helmets along just for riding 'park' or no helmet use? I did not like the feel of a helmet on my head when I tried it way back in the day. Plus, the helmet was noticeably colder! Feel like I need to yell FREEEEEEEEEEEEDOM from the top of my lungs like William Wallace when I was wearing one. However, I do know that park riding is more deadly to your lightbulb...
I should note that despite getting into more freestyle oriented riding this winter, if it snows, I'll be riding pow, not in the park 
Wanna protect my head while in the park, but don't exactly wanna lug a helmet around with me on my pack, already enough crap in there!

My question is, what are your thoughts on helmet use in respect to freestyle riding.


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## FreshPrince

Here's my question,

why not?


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## the REASON

FreshPrince said:


> Here's my question,
> 
> why not?


its uncomfortable.


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## hikeswithdogs

Trees, rocks and other idiots slamming into your melon will kill you , I have music and phone integration which is convenient and it keeps me warm and safe.

After a few hours you won't even notice it


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## Qball

It's purely your choice. I wear one and have worn one for so long that it feels weird not to be wearing one. Not uncomfortable at all.


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## fattrav

Peaceryder said:


> Just interested in freestyle riders t......
> 
> *My question is, what are your thoughts on helmet use in respect to freestyle riding*.


Hard things that you can hit your head on exist outside of the park as well. Helmets are a reasonable idea.


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## lonerider

Peaceryder said:


> Just interested in freestyle riders thoughts on using helmets. I'm a pure freerider who hasn't had much experience with jumping/jibbing other than backcountry kickers into deeeeep pow, so I never wore a helmet, even though my mom bought me one about 12 years ago, lol. Do you guys bring your helmets along just for riding 'park' or no helmet use? I did not like the feel of a helmet on my head when I tried it way back in the day. Plus, the helmet was noticeably colder! Feel like I need to yell FREEEEEEEEEEEEDOM from the top of my lungs like William Wallace when I was wearing one. However, I do know that park riding is more deadly to your lightbulb...
> I should note that despite getting into more freestyle oriented riding this winter, if it snows, I'll be riding pow, not in the park
> Wanna protect my head while in the park, but don't exactly wanna lug a helmet around with me on my pack, already enough crap in there!
> 
> My question is, what are your thoughts on helmet use in respect to freestyle riding.


My personal opinion is always wear a helmet. When learning new tricks it is really easy to catch your heel edge and slam the back of the head on the ground. Helmets are not fool-proof you can still get a concussion wearing one... but it can also mean the difference between being a little shaken up for a few minutes... and it ending the rest of your day/trip.

Even if you are just "taking it easy" you can still get hurt. You could crash on a simple box and get a concussion due to bad luck. someone else could crash into your from behind... like Boarderholic or my girlfriend two seasons ago.

Actually when I was waiting in the season pass pickup line at Kirkwood a couple of year ago... a huge icicle broke off the roof and clobbered two guys standing in line by the season pass office. One guy had a helmet and was ok although shaken up. The other guy did not and was stretchered away. Anecdotal evidence... but still.

I agree it feels nicer and more "free" without a helmet... but a proper fitting helmet should be pretty comfortable and warm.


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## Krug

I would much rather not wear a helmet, but here are the reasons why I do...

1. 2 head concussions neither of which happened in the park. 1 was caused by an out of control skier and I was wearing a helmet. I still rode the rest of the day, but literally could not piece together a sentence and had a gnarly headache.
2. I like to ride through the trees...I'm guessing my head is not going to win of I hit a tree at speed
3. Double black diamonds with exposed rocks...in the even that I bite it, I would rather not tomohawk head first into a patch of them wearing a beenie...then again, even a helmet might not save me.

My main factor for wearing though, in all honesty is because I have kiddos and I'd hate for a nasty accident to take me out of their lives.

Andy


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## risingsun270

It's totally your choice whether you want to or not but I highly recommend it in the park with rails, boxes, bailing hard on jumps, etc. it really saves you!

I can't count how many times I'm hiking a rail or waiting to drop and a guy with a helmet falls really bad and smacks his head on the back of the rail and all I'm thinking is "if that dude didn't have a helmet..." I've had my own firsthand experiences too but just my two cents. 

Outside the park there's plenty of hazards out there so again it's recommended but I usually don't wear a helmet outside of the park but I'm taking my own risk.


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## Peaceryder

risingsun270 said:


> It's totally your choice whether you want to or not but I highly recommend it in the park with rails, boxes, bailing hard on jumps, etc. it really saves you!
> 
> I can't count how many times I'm hiking a rail or waiting to drop and a guy with a helmet falls really bad and smacks his head on the back of the rail and all I'm thinking is "if that dude didn't have a helmet..." I've had my own firsthand experiences too but just my two cents.
> 
> Outside the park there's plenty of hazards out there so again it's recommended but I usually don't wear a helmet outside of the park but I'm taking my own risk.


Yeah, I'm thinking that when in the park I'll wear one or I won't try any rails outside the park. On a normal run I'm not too worried about being run into or hitting any rocks so I'll stay free in that circumstance since I've never had any issues with trees or rocks - although the base of my board might tell ya different: gotta love those exposed rocks in the worst places, lol. 

Interesting to hear the different responses, but I'm a bit shocked at the responses towards wearing a helmet. In my time ripping down double blacks at kicking horse, sunshine and castle mountain, I found that most riders didn't wear a helmet. Should note that I NEVER ventured into any park terrain areas so can't comment on that, but sounds like it's exactly opposite.


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## BigmountainVMD

I think that it's all about finding a helmet that is comfortable, light weight, and low profile. I use a Smith Vantage, and I had two sent to my house. When I picked up the box, with TWO helmets inside, it felt practically empty. I feel like a lot of the helmets designed for the "park look" (like the skate helmet look) are heavier and lack ventilation.

I also know tons of people who wear thin beanies under their helmets for warmth. That's where the inner adjustable helmets are nice.

Unless you are jibbing or riding icy park conditions, I think riding in the trees is more dangerous for your dome piece.

Have you ever actually hit your head hard while riding? I know more than a few kids who never wore helmets for the same reasons you are saying, only to slam their face on something and get carted down the hill. Needless to say they ALL made peace with some dome protection.


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## FreshPrince

the REASON said:


> its uncomfortable.


buy one that fits instead of a $30 protec skate helmet, like hikeswithdogs says, they have music integration and a plethora of colors and styles. if you can't find one that fits and works with what you're looking for you haven't looked hard enough.

Pro-tec Helmets
Capix Snow Catalog
Men's Helmets & Protection | R.E.D. Protection
Sandbox | Helmets
Snow Helmets : Bern

stupid not to wear one by claiming they're uncomfortable


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## Peaceryder

BigmountainVMD said:


> I think that it's all about finding a helmet that is comfortable, light weight, and low profile. I use a Smith Vantage, and I had two sent to my house. When I picked up the box, with TWO helmets inside, it felt practically empty. I feel like a lot of the helmets designed for the "park look" (like the skate helmet look) are heavier and lack ventilation.
> 
> I also know tons of people who wear thin beanies under their helmets for warmth. That's where the inner adjustable helmets are nice.
> 
> Unless you are jibbing or riding icy park conditions, I think riding in the trees is more dangerous for your dome piece.
> 
> Have you ever actually hit your head hard while riding? I know more than a few kids who never wore helmets for the same reasons you are saying, only to slam their face on something and get carted down the hill. Needless to say they ALL made peace with some dome protection.


Nope, have never hit my head against a tree or other object other than snow. I tend to steer my board away from such obstacles with my edges. If your edges fail you can always bail on your board by falling against the mountainside packed with snow. Always a way to avoid a tree! Lol, some will say that's crazae, but doesn't mean it ain't true.
I have once or twice driven my noggen in the snow after totally messing up a backcountry kicker  

The thread contributors can feel glad that they've convinced me to bring my helm for park use and they may also be sad because I'll never wear a helmet going down a fall line.


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## Riley212

I say wear a helmet or at least a hard hat. the new designs are more comfortable, lightweight and cool looking than they were 12 years ago. 

It never falls off and my goggles never fall off of it

It keeps my head warm

It lets me listen to music 

It protects my *brain*

protects my BRAIN

my BRAIN

*BRAIN*

The brain is the center of the nervous system in all vertebrate and most invertebrate animals—only a few primitive invertebrates such as sponges, jellyfish, sea squirts and starfishes do not have one. It is located in the head, usually close to the primary sensory organs for such senses as vision, hearing, balance, taste, and smell. The brain of a vertebrate is the most complex organ in its body. In a typical human the cerebral cortex (the largest part) is estimated to contain 15–33 billion neurons,[1] each connected by synapses to several thousand other neurons. These neurons communicate with one another by means of long protoplasmic fibers called axons, which carry trains of signal pulses called action potentials to distant parts of the brain or body targeting specific recipient cells.

From an evolutionary-biological point of view, the function of the brain is to exert centralized control over the other organs of the body. The brain acts on the rest of the body either by generating patterns of muscle activity or by driving secretion of chemicals called hormones. This centralized control allows rapid and coordinated responses to changes in the environment. Some basic types of responsiveness such as reflexes can be mediated by the spinal cord or peripheral ganglia, but sophisticated purposeful control of behavior based on complex sensory input requires the information-integrating capabilities of a centralized brain.

From a philosophical point of view, what makes the brain special in comparison to other organs is that it forms the physical structure that generates the mind. As Hippocrates put it: "Men ought to know that from nothing else but the brain come joys, delights, laughter and sports, and sorrows, griefs, despondency, and lamentations."[2] In the early part of psychology, the mind was thought to be separate from the brain. However, after early scientists conducted experiments it was determined that the mind was a component of a functioning brain that expressed certain behaviours based on the external environment and the development of the organism.[3] The mechanisms by which brain activity gives rise to consciousness and thought have been very challenging to understand: despite rapid scientific progress, much about how the brain works remains a mystery. The operations of individual brain cells are now understood in considerable detail, but the way they cooperate in ensembles of millions has been very difficult to decipher. The most promising approaches treat the brain as a biological computer, very different in mechanism from electronic computers, but similar in the sense that it acquires information from the surrounding world, stores it, and processes it in a variety of ways.

-wikipedia


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## justdust

Don't wear protective gear if you have nothing to protect...however....


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## hikeswithdogs

Peaceryder said:


> Nope, have never hit my head against a tree or other object other than snow. I tend to steer my board away from such obstacles with my edges. If your edges fail you can always bail on your board by falling against the mountainside packed with snow. Always a way to avoid a tree! Lol, some will say that's crazae, but doesn't mean it ain't true.
> I have once or twice driven my noggen in the snow after totally messing up a backcountry kicker
> 
> The thread contributors can feel glad that they've convinced me to bring my helm for park use and they may also be sad because I'll never wear a helmet going down a fall line.


No offence like riding a motorcycle wearing a helmet is your prerogative man I'm sure your a great rider but when your riding steep terrain with deep snow, large drop and trees that are only spaced a few feet apart shit happens even to the best of us.


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## Triple8Sol

I got a helmet a a few years back after a couple friends cracked their heads open on an icy day at Whistler. Wore it for a couple seasons until one day I forgot it, loved how much more comfortable it was without one, and never wore it again. Went and got one before last season though, since I spend the majority of my time in the trees and ducking ropes to the slackcountry. Wear it about 95% of the time now.


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## surferbum21

the REASON said:


> its uncomfortable.


sorry but that's the dumbest thing i've ever heard. dunno what your wearing but i have a red helmet sized up so i can wear a beanie under it. warm and i protect my thinker for $50. don't know what your life is worth but I damn well know mine is worth more than that. 

But I can't call the kettle black. I only wore a helmet in the park until two years ago when I hit ice riding switch and woke up in the meatbasket. Ever since I ride and all of my friends have since gotten one. I am very pleased to see the majority of people even local park rats wearing em more. It's just dumb not to.


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## Memphis Hawk

I didn't wear a helmet until I hit a rather thick tree branch with my skull last year. It's not what you see coming that's going to hurt you.


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## Tech420

Check out the Smith Maze. It is so light you barely notice it is there.


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## Pow?POW!

Helmet.. or concussion/degenerative brain damage/mental stability/possibility of death... Should this even be a question? 

I understand a helmets comfort ability may be a deterrent for you however it's a small price to pay in my opinion instead of waking up brain dead simply trying to enjoy one of my favorite sports.


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## onji

Snowolf said:


> Don`t wear a beanie under the helmet if you actually want protection.


What he said.

Same rule goes for most sports I've been involved in, you need that thing riding snug on your noggin'

Be safe :thumbsup:


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## Donutz

Snowolf said:


> Just an FYI here. You are calling others dumb yet you have nearly defeated the purpose of the helmet here. Your helmet needs to fit snugly without a beanie under it. When fitting yourself for a helmet, do not wear a beanie under it. A sloppy, loose fitting helmet is only marginally better than no helmet and you are riding around with a sense of false security. Don`t wear a beanie under the helmet if you actually want protection.


To be honest, I didn't know it would make that much of a difference either. Personally I find my helmet warm enough anyway, but this is Raincouver where freezing temps are a myth.


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## myschims

Look into the bern watts are hardhat helmets, they are lightweight and comfortable, plus they look good and are pretty cheap. 
I wear mine everywhere and dont feel very comfortable without one.


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## drpeppr237

I honestly hate wearing helmets and think there uncomfortable and everything, but I've known people who've had concussions and have actually split there head open, even when riding on a trail; even though I hate it I wear one just because you think about it and one blow to the head is all it takes.


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## onji

drpeppr237 said:


> I honestly hate wearing helmets and think there uncomfortable and everything, but I've known people who've had concussions and have actually split there head open, even when riding on a trail; even though I hate it I wear one just because you think about it and one blow to the head is all it takes.


Agreed. You don't need to be in the pipe or landing a big kicker to get wiped out. I've had the last 3 weeks taken out of my season (and at least one more week) from an accident I did on a hardpack groomer. I'm glad I had my helmet on.


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## gauntlet09

Last year I discovered a pretty significant "stabbing" or "poking" type of impact on the top front of my helmet. Kinda looks like it was hit by a bullet. 

Not sure, but I think it was caused by a tree branch. Seems like it could have done some real damage to a bare mellon!

I find that wearing a helmet gives me an added sense of security to bomb through shit with fewer consequences...which isn't necessarily always a good thing.


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## the REASON

sorry i dont find even proper fitting helmets to be comfortable. :dunno:

wearing a helmet is a choice, my choice is not to.

ive actually taken a pretty bad shot to the back of the head while snowboarding, with a concussion and a few hours of amnesia to boot. its not something i make a habit of so im not really worried about it.






edit* i want to add that i am in no way endorsing not wearing a helmet, they do provide a lot of protection for your precious little head. but i do endorse your right to choose whether you wear one or not.


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## Barnburner

I have been a firefighter/paramedic for 9 years. While I work in the south, have seen the result of people hitting their heads on just about everything but snow and ice. I'll spare you the details, but I can honestly say that after countless motorcycle, scooter, skateboard, falls, ect, ect. over the years I have never said "that dude was lucky he wasn't wearing a helmet". I can even say that a few times about seat belts, but never a helmet. 
My father died of a traumatic brain injury about 3 years ago. After 4 months in a hospital where my whole family pretty much stayed by his side. Coming from a family member who went through this whole ordeal, I have to disagree that it's a personal choice to wear one. Ask your family. After a traumatic brain injury, they are going to be the ones dealing with your situation, you'll be obvilious. Maybe visiting you somewhere all the time, maybe if your lucky enough to go home - feeding you, bathing you, cleaning up your drool, stuff like that...involve them in your decision.
Sorry if this was a little over the top, but maybe it will convince just one of you to wear one and save you and your family from having to deal with something like this. Why is this in a fashion forum?


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## pyrosis

Barnburner said:


> Why is this in a fashion forum?


Agree with everything barnburner said. Working as an RN in both ER and ICU for the last four years, I have seen the results of head injuries first hand. It is not pretty. That said, I have seen many patients go on to make a full recovery after a helmeted head injury, when they would have been dead without it. Just wear the helmet. Which is more important, your fashion sense or your brain matter?


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## DrnknZag

Wearing helmet is definitely a choice for each person to make. If you won't want to wear a helmet, that's fine, it's your choice.

The thing that kills me is some of the reasons I'm hearing here. The comments like "I don't plan on falling" are ridiculously comical. I do plan on falling either, but shit happens. I'm pretty sure nobody ever went out saying, "I think I'm gonna try to fall as many times as I can today." I took a hidden tree branch to the dome at Vail last year that would have certainly crushed my skull, pretty sure I didn't say something like "I was trying to bash my skull in today."

Shit DOES happen, and it only takes one incident to change or end your life. That's why I wear a helmet.


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## doktrin

I've started wearing one, and now I don't think I could justify not wearing one. The reward (looking cool, feeling lighter) isn't worth the risk (self explanatory).

That said, I rode without for years and just considered it par for the course. It was pretty uncommon for kids to wear helmets 10 years ago, and the helmets themselves were not as comfortable or low profiled as those made today.


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## gmore10

tell you the truth i dont wear one but have one incase i decide to do park i proably should wear one all the time considering ive had 5 concussions not from snowboarding but from rugby but it your choice


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## squid267

Honestly just wear one. Its safe and usually are really comfy and warm. Soo many occasions where if i wasnt wearing a helmet id be serious hurt.


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## swilber08

Barnburner said:


> I have been a firefighter/paramedic for 9 years. While I work in the south, have seen the result of people hitting their heads on just about everything but snow and ice. I'll spare you the details, but I can honestly say that after countless motorcycle, scooter, skateboard, falls, ect, ect. over the years I have never said "that dude was lucky he wasn't wearing a helmet". I can even say that a few times about seat belts, but never a helmet.
> My father died of a traumatic brain injury about 3 years ago. After 4 months in a hospital where my whole family pretty much stayed by his side. Coming from a family member who went through this whole ordeal, I have to disagree that it's a personal choice to wear one. Ask your family. After a traumatic brain injury, they are going to be the ones dealing with your situation, you'll be obvilious. Maybe visiting you somewhere all the time, maybe if your lucky enough to go home - feeding you, bathing you, cleaning up your drool, stuff like that...involve them in your decision.
> Sorry if this was a little over the top, but maybe it will convince just one of you to wear one and save you and your family from having to deal with something like this. Why is this in a fashion forum?


good point :thumbsup:....its kind of selfish to not think about your family if you think about it


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## KIRKRIDER

This just popped up on my FB....Moving Forward - Trailer - YouTube


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## kayin

my helmet has saved me so many times! I would likely be concussed many times or worse if I wasn't wearing one! and recently picked up a new one with a bit of a visor that i think looks pretty cool, so the whole helmets looks gay is a bad argument imo! they save lives, they save your brain functioning, and to me, that's all that matters!


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## otisdelarosa

Why not try wearing helmet? You'll get used to it eventually. It's for protection after all.

Howdy


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## surferbum21

Snowolf said:


> Just an FYI here. You are calling others dumb yet you have nearly defeated the purpose of the helmet here. Your helmet needs to fit snugly without a beanie under it. When fitting yourself for a helmet, do not wear a beanie under it. A sloppy, loose fitting helmet is only marginally better than no helmet and you are riding around with a sense of false security. Don`t wear a beanie under the helmet if you actually want protection.


i'd love to see evidence to support that. 

A majority of people i know all wear beanies under helmet to keep head warm and pretty sure I see a hell of a lot of pro riders wearing beanies under their helmets. My helmet does not keep me warm at all. If anything I would think a beanie would add more cushion. It still fits snug and doesn't move around. i've bumped my head several times with it on and it sure as hell did the job.


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## Barnburner

surferbum21 said:


> i'd love to see evidence to support .


Agreed. And I am serious, if you have some info please post it and I will utilize it in our safety committee's, ect. we wear helmets with hoods, without, with hoods and mask, ect, ect...
With all due respect, I just don't see it. And the basis for so has several reasons. Mostly revolving around the helmet companies liability, because unfortunately, that's what makes our world turn...I have never seen a warning not to wear anything under a helmet, and the companies would certainly use that as an easy "out", especially since it's a common practice.
If the fit were THAT specific, there would be a more specific fit. It wouldnt be S,M,L,XL...what about those that fall in between. Also my Berns helmet I just got has a winter insert and a sweat band instead of an insert for summer use. The winter one is thicker than my beanie, and because of that the helmet fits a little looser without the insert, but the difference is greater than using my beanie and not using it.


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## mastershake

i used to snowboard about 9 years ago..16-18yrs and i never wore a helmet. i thought they were bulky, uncomfortable and most of all looked "nerdy"..

i am 27 now and as I changed my life i decided to start riding again, the first thing i did was to buy a helmet and i didn't let my gf go out without wearing one. Life is so much more precious to me now and there is ABSOLUTELY no reason to not wear a helmet. 

Uncomfortable? Maybe if you spent 30$ on your helmet. Go to stores and try them on. They have to fit snug but not uncomfortably, helmets are like shoes you have to try them on and play with them until you find the one that feels snug and comfortable..it shouldnt move around on your head. if you find a helmet like that, within a few minutes of riding you will forget you even have it on. believe me.

I wear a POC Skull Light helmet, it cost me 130$...it keeps me warm, i don't feel its there and most of all it protects my head. everyone is a hero until they take a hit straight to the noggin.


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## JeffreyCH

I will always maintain a position of helmet use being a personal choice. However some things to be considered about the reasons some have for not wearing them. 

Uncomfortable: If the OP's helmet is 12 years old, the rate that tech moves these days that is ancient. Helmets are like boots, people can recommend models till they are blue in the face, YOU HAVE TO TRY THEM ON! And I don't mean just 1 or 2 that some random dude on the internet recommended. I tried on 15 before I bought mine (Giro G9) with the amount of manufacturers and models available you will find something that fits right. 

I don't ride park: In my experience, outside the park, most concussions happen on easy groomers. These areas are congested with inexperienced riders/skiers, sure you can control what YOU do but shit does indeed happen. I also seem to edge catch more on green runs, when I'm riding more advanced runs I'm 110% focused on what I am doing and the terrain directly in front of me. On green groomers I'm picking my line based on the people in front of me and not so much on what I am sliding over. 

Not warm: *I have no idea about the beanie/fit thing* I usually have to open vents to keep from sweating like a pig in mine, maybe cheap helmets don't have as good of insulation :dunno: The only time I can remember not venting mine was a heavy snow at Keystone a few years ago, was probably in the teens, and dumping. Still warm enough, I can't imagine riding in weather that was much worse. 

Doesn't look cool: If you are going to the mountain just to make a fashion statement, then why bother riding at all, just gear up in a grand worth of Burton crap and hang out in the lodge. If you are THAT worried about what other people think, it's an issue with your self esteem....besides mine looks bad assed :cheeky4:

All in all, as I have said in these threads before, better to have it and not need it, then need it and not have it...your squash your choice.


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## gauntlet09

I'm with you on the warmth thing Jeffrey. My head has never been cold in 12+ years of wearing a helmet (by itself), and I usually run on the cooler side. 

I also have a Giro (Seam). They make really nice helmets. Lightweight, well ventilated, goggle compatability, comfortable (for me)...a little spendy, but you get what you pay for.

I liked the look of the Smith helmets quite a bit more, but they just didn't fit me right.


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## swilber08

Barnburner said:


> Agreed. And I am serious, if you have some info please post it and I will utilize it in our safety committee's, ect. we wear helmets with hoods, without, with hoods and mask, ect, ect...
> With all due respect, I just don't see it. And the basis for so has several reasons. Mostly revolving around the helmet companies liability, because unfortunately, that's what makes our world turn...I have never seen a warning not to wear anything under a helmet, and the companies would certainly use that as an easy "out", especially since it's a common practice.
> If the fit were THAT specific, there would be a more specific fit. It wouldnt be S,M,L,XL...what about those that fall in between. Also my Berns helmet I just got has a winter insert and a sweat band instead of an insert for summer use. The winter one is thicker than my beanie, and because of that the helmet fits a little looser without the insert, but the difference is greater than using my beanie and not using it.


yea I have to agree....beanies dont make helmets less safe, a helmet that is too loose does


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## IdahoFreshies

Personally i hardly ever wear a helmet. I just don't find them comfortable nor do i like how they look, nor do i like how they fit with my neck warmer, or how bulky they are, or how they get itchy. The only times i will wear a helmet are if i want to do some filming with the helmet cam, or if im having a park day. Other than that its a beanie or some type of a hat.



JeffreyCH said:


> I don't ride park: In my experience, outside the park, most concussions happen on easy groomers. These areas are congested with inexperienced riders/skiers, sure you can control what YOU do but shit does indeed happen. I also seem to edge catch more on green runs, when I'm riding more advanced runs I'm 110% focused on what I am doing and the terrain directly in front of me. On green groomers I'm picking my line based on the people in front of me and not so much on what I am sliding over.
> 
> 
> Doesn't look cool: If you are going to the mountain just to make a fashion statement, then why bother riding at all, just gear up in a grand worth of Burton crap and hang out in the lodge. If you are THAT worried about what other people think, it's an issue with your self esteem....besides mine looks bad assed :cheeky4:


well i dont ever ride green groomers so it looks like i am safe there. I am hardly ever in areas with inexperienced beginners so for the most part i dont need to worry about other people. And while i dont go up to the mountain to make a fashion statement i do care a bit about what i look like, and i dont like the look of helmets, simple as that, just my personal opinion.


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## Argo

My helmet looks stupid but I still wear it, I'd rather look stupid than be stupid. I have a size 8 hat/67 helmet so there aren't many cool options.... Wearing one has saved me a few times though, my niece and son would both likely be dead without one. Both have been knocked out and cracked helmets. My niece woke up in providence hood river hospital not knowing how she got there, that's a long ride off mt hood.....


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## HoboMaster

Was dicking around coming down a cattrack after a long epic powder day on tuesday and caught my nose - did a flip and landed straight on the back of my head. I was dizzy for about 10 minutes and the impact still hurt with the helmet, but boy was I glad I was wearing it. Shit happens when you least expect it and it's nice to have that security.


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## zealandblack

After getting two concussions, I've taken to wearing my helmet every time I go out. First concussion was when I was just starting out, one of the first black diamond runs I ever hit, and it was icy as shiiit. Ended up falling pretty bad and slamming my head on some ice. 
After that I got a helmet, but as I got better I decided to only wear it when I was planning on charging icy or going big in the park. I was with a few beginner friends and decided to forego the helmet because I was just going to be taking it easy with them. But by the end of the day I got restless and ended up taking some laps through the park where I blasted my head when i botched the landing on a fairly large jump. That one really sucked because I had to drive home since my car wasn't automatic and none of my friends could drive a stick. Whole way back, my friends had to keep reminding me where we were going and how to get back to my house. Driving back was probably even dumber than not wearing a helmet.
Interestingly, since I started wearing a helmet, I've injured pretty much everything else on falls, but haven't once taken a big blow to the head. That's not going to stop me from putting one on though. The one time I leave the helmet in the car, I'll probably end up cracking my skull on a kink rail. 

As far as the whole, "don't wear helmet over beanie" thing, I've never heard that before. I've always worn my helmet over a beanie and goggles under the helmet. I like the look better, plus I find it more comfortable with the beanie on than the ear pads.


----------



## SchultzLS2

Last year my cousin was riding side by side with his buddy. His buddy fell and hit his head not even that hard and immediately started having a seizure right there. I was on the fence about wearing a helmet then, but after that I wear it every time now.

I have a Smith Maze. It is the lightest helmet there is. It feels like I have nothing on my head, it stays the perfect temp all day, keeps my ears warm, plays music, and gives me a tad more courage. I may look a little dumb but...I'll never go back to a too hot/too cold/too itchy beanie again.


----------



## swilber08

caught a heel edge two days ago doing a frontside bs on a og rail while I was wearing my helmet and it probably saved my life :thumbsup:

...the back of my head bounced off the rail and I still might have gotten a mild concussion but no doubt I wouldn't be sitting here if I wasn't wearing it

everyone please wear a helmet when you're out there....there really is *absolutely no justifiable reason not to*


----------



## twin89

wear it, seeing as fashion is typically the reason for younger people to not wear one... having a functional brain>>>looking as steezy as possible.


----------



## Smokehaus

I find brains to be pretty steezy if I must admit.


----------



## kramer213

the REASON said:


> its uncomfortable.


Know whats more uncomfortable a concussion...


----------



## IdahoFreshies

kramer213 said:


> Know whats more uncomfortable a concussion...


*see snowolf's posts in the helmet thread in the general section


----------



## honeycomb

I bought my helmet so I could have speakers in the ear pads, my ear buds kept falling out, the little bit of head protection is just a bonus


----------



## Tyler Durden

If you're in any doubt, watch this.

Full Movie: Moving Forward


----------



## sketcharoo

I've been on 5 trips to CO to board and next week I'll be making my 6th trip. I've never worn a helmet before and on at least 2 different occasions in the past I've hit a nasty patch of ice and wiped out and hit my head real good. I've also been clobbered by an idiot or 2 on the mountain.. I'm 100% guilty of being that person who thought people would make fun of me for wearing a helmet, or that it would look "stupid". Let's get realistic, you know what would look more stupid?? You being paralyzed or in a vegetable state and pissing/shitting yourself all day and being incapable of living your life without 24/7 assistance. I come from a pre-med background and I have a pretty in-depth understanding of the brain and I can't believe how ignorant I was to never wear a helmet on my previous trips. I'm investing in a helmet today and I'll have it on every time I hit the slopes next week.

"Many organs and tissues in the body can recover after injury without intervention. Unfortunately, some cells of the central nervous system are so specialized that they cannot divide and create new cells. As a result, recovery from a brain or spinal cord injury is much more difficult."


----------



## Cole323

You can be the best snowboarder in the world, but it is more about the people behind you. I know this guy who was slammed head on by a skier, went to the emergency room and the only reason he survived was because he was wearing a helmet. I really don't think I would hurt myself, but to protect myself from other riders.


----------



## HoboMaster

Cole323 said:


> You can be the best snowboarder in the world, but it is more about the people behind you. I know this guy who was slammed head on by a skier, went to the emergency room and the only reason he survived was because he was wearing a helmet. I really don't think I would hurt myself, but to protect myself from other riders.


Precisely why you ride faster then everyone else, just have to worry about not running into people


----------



## poutanen

There's still a question over helmets?!?! Got mine about 4 years ago (15 years into my snowboarding career) because my buddy and I collided and I forgot how to talk for a few weeks. Now I find it warmer (toque only covers to the ears at the most), more comfortable (goggles don't press into my face and rub itchy toque on me lol), and just downright better.

When I'm flying through the trees, off little cliffs, etc. do I want to be worried about keeping my head safe?

To each his own I guess. I used to ride a sportbike and helmets are mandatory in Canada. Saw some guys in Philly popping wheelies on enduro's with no helmets and I just about puked my stomach turned so much.

Would you bet money that you could ride around holding a watermelon all day and not crack it?


----------



## onefutui2e

IMO there are helmets so light you won't even notice that you're wearing one. but they're typically very expensive.

like someone pointed out on this forum, your body is pretty good on its own at guessing where parts of your body are in relation to each other. so if you hit the ground it instinctively knows how much to tense your neck so you avoid slamming your head, among other things. it's not perfect but it does the job for most situations. it depends on your activities too. i used to break dance so i'm used to falling in almost every way possible.

there's also that catch-22 where increased safety is correlated with increased risk-taking. they've done studies on it but you can see it on the forums here too. i personally would not have put myself in a situation a year ago to get a concussion if i didn't have a helmet on, but it pretty much saved my life.

of course, if your body is not aware of a rock being there you're all kinds of fucked. in that case a helmet will probably be helpful.


----------



## kpd2003

Any protection is better than none, but is spending $130 really worth it? I would imagine any helmet would work - obviously not as well as a "snowboard" deemed helmet with specific advantages (re; speakers, insulation, etc.) - to at least do the basic protecting that a helmet is good for. So, as long as it is not a huge deal, *would wearing a simple skateboard helmet give you the same level of protection on the snow as it would against concrete*?

I got a good chuckle when I saw a snowboarder a few weeks ago with a dirtbike/motocross helmet. More dangerous than beneficial with the limited peripherals but it does add to my original question: can any helmet work as a snowboard helmet?

Goddamn I am a stingy mofo!


----------



## poutanen

^^^ You can get a basic snowobarding helmet for $40...

Smith Hustle Silver Max 2011 Helmet Medium | eBay

I think my helmet was about $90 on sale. Light, closeable vents so good for a wide range of temps, ratchet strap adjustment for good fit. 

I've busted shoulders, ribs, wrists, and bruised my tailbone really bad over the years of boarding. I forgot how to talk and gave myself headaches for a while after hitting my head. Not really looking to become a vegetable any time soon.


----------



## KIRKRIDER

kpd2003 said:


> Any protection is better than none, but is spending $130 really worth it? I would imagine any helmet would work - obviously not as well as a "snowboard" deemed helmet with specific advantages (re; speakers, insulation, etc.) - to at least do the basic protecting that a helmet is good for. So, as long as it is not a huge deal, *would wearing a simple skateboard helmet give you the same level of protection on the snow as it would against concrete*?
> 
> I got a good chuckle when I saw a snowboarder a few weeks ago with a dirtbike/motocross helmet. More dangerous than beneficial with the limited peripherals but it does add to my original question: can any helmet work as a snowboard helmet?
> 
> Goddamn I am a stingy mofo!


Will my Subaru WRX take me up the mountain? For sure and well too. Is it as safe and quiet as an Audi S4? No way. You get what you pay for.


----------



## mixie

this thread made me stop wearing a helmet. :cheeky4: When i started riding a friend gave me his old one but it only fit with a beenie underneath. Not to mention it was hideous!! I wore it when I was learning (which is probably when you need it the least) and would still wear it on icy days. Then I saw that post with the OSHA regs-- I've ditched that thing and I'm not looking back. Maybe if I find one on sale with some headphones built in, I'll pick one up. 


what I don't get is why helmets are such a hot topic. In any sport. not just ski/snowboard. I've seen a million altercations both online and in person over helmets in cycling as well. Why do people care what someone else does? How does my wearing (or not) a helmet effect you? 


Random Facts: I've suffered 3 concussions in my life. One was from being hit in the face (martial arts tourney) the second was from crashing my bike at about 25 mph and landing on my head. (yes, with a helmet)

The third and far worst concussion was from slipping while playing DDR. :laugh: Yeah, I know Im talented.


----------



## poutanen

mixie said:


> I wore it when I was learning (which is probably when you need it the least) and would still wear it on icy days. Then I saw that post with the OSHA regs-- I've ditched that thing and I'm not looking back. Maybe if I find one on sale with some headphones built in, I'll pick one up.


I would hardly say learning is when you need it least. Catch an edge, go down on ice, head smashed like a melon... lol

Also why do you care about OSHA regs when you're snowboarding? Are you being paid to snowboard? I'd take a loose helmet with a beanie rather than no helmet any day.

I really don't care if people wear a helmet or not, but I have to question peoples motivation NOT to wear one.


----------



## cjcameron11

Snowolf said:


> Yeah, this is also the exact reason why I drive a large SUV (though I wish I could afford one that was a hybrid or alt fuels). I am not worried about my driving but rather the other idiots on the road running into me. I want to always be in the larger vehicle just in case!



Exact reason i drive a toyota land cruiser, i figure id rather have the guilt of someone i don't know dying in an accident with me than myself or family dying. IMO bigger is better on the road.


----------



## poutanen

cjcameron11 said:


> Exact reason i drive a toyota land cruiser, i figure id rather have the guilt of someone i don't know dying in an accident with me than myself or family dying. IMO bigger is better on the road.


I'd kill for an FJ40 Landcruiser (the 70's landcruisers)... On the other hand bigger isn't always better on the road. Just look at the Ford/Firestone roll over scandal. 

That said, you wouldn't catch me dead in a dumb car, I mean smart car.


----------



## cjcameron11

Haha smart cars are pretty much a coffin in a collision, also plenty of fj40's here in aus pretty cheap


----------



## poutanen

cjcameron11 said:


> Haha smart cars are pretty much a coffin in a collision, also plenty of fj40's here in aus pretty cheap


Would love to import one. Here they're $10k CDN and up for one that's not rusted to shit... Damn Aussies get all the good cars for cheap!


----------



## boarderbud

wear a helmet. you get used to it after a couple days and wont even notice your wearing it anymore.I lost a month riding this season because I hit my head when least expected to and got a bad concussion back in January.


----------



## onji

I always ride with my helmet, even groomers can be dangerous when travelling at high speed on icy hardpack. Furthermore you never know when some muppet is going to come flying into you.

Like I've said before. Helmets can be replaced, head's cant......


----------



## Howlingsonnets

Peaceryder said:


> Just interested in freestyle riders thoughts on using helmets. I'm a pure freerider who hasn't had much experience with jumping/jibbing other than backcountry kickers into deeeeep pow, so I never wore a helmet, even though my mom bought me one about 12 years ago, lol. Do you guys bring your helmets along just for riding 'park' or no helmet use? I did not like the feel of a helmet on my head when I tried it way back in the day. Plus, the helmet was noticeably colder! Feel like I need to yell FREEEEEEEEEEEEDOM from the top of my lungs like William Wallace when I was wearing one. However, I do know that park riding is more deadly to your lightbulb...
> I should note that despite getting into more freestyle oriented riding this winter, if it snows, I'll be riding pow, not in the park
> Wanna protect my head while in the park, but don't exactly wanna lug a helmet around with me on my pack, already enough crap in there!
> 
> My question is, what are your thoughts on helmet use in respect to freestyle riding.


I wear a helmet bc id rather be uncomfortable than unable to move speak or wakeup......i wanna ride for a long time and i cant do that if i just hit my head the wrong way (not saying its 100% bulletproof)

I honestly dont care if i may fall into the uncool category of helmet wearers who ride


----------



## Lamps

onji said:


> Furthermore you never know when some muppet is going to come flying into you.


this is the argument that can't be refuted unless you claim to have spidey sense and eyes in the back of your head, no matter how good you are some dufus can crash into you.


----------



## Donutz

Howlingsonnets said:


> I honestly dont care if i may fall into the uncool category of helmet wearers who ride


And who elected them arbiters of coolness anyway? Fuckem.


----------



## Lamps

Donutz said:


> And who elected them arbiters of coolness anyway? Fuckem.


exactly

QFT


----------



## cd21

Peaceryder said:


> Yeah, I'm thinking that when in the park I'll wear one or I won't try any rails outside the park. On a normal run I'm not too worried about being run into or hitting any rocks so I'll stay free in that circumstance since I've never had any issues with trees or rocks - although the base of my board might tell ya different: gotta love those exposed rocks in the worst places, lol.
> 
> Interesting to hear the different responses, but I'm a bit shocked at the responses towards wearing a helmet. In my time ripping down double blacks at kicking horse, sunshine and castle mountain, I found that most riders didn't wear a helmet. Should note that I NEVER ventured into any park terrain areas so can't comment on that, but sounds like it's exactly opposite.


well when I freeride (basically all I do) I wear a helmet because you can still get whacked by trees and such. So yeah go with a helmet


----------



## StrattonRider

the REASON said:


> its uncomfortable.


you wanna know what is uncomfortable? ..... Having brain problems for the rest of your life because you decided not to were a helmet. They make them so light and unnoticeable.


----------



## jdmccright

I look at it this way. Do I really have time to be out of work with a broke brain.? The answer is always no.


----------



## B(F)Dkid55

hikeswithdogs said:


> Trees, rocks and other idiots slamming into your melon will kill you , I have music and phone integration which is convenient and it keeps me warm and safe.
> 
> After a few hours you won't even notice it


I agree, get one with the music integration and you wont notice it as much


----------



## Donutz

jdmccright said:


> I look at it this way. Do I really have time to be out of work with a broke brain.? The answer is always no.


Me lose brain? Uh-oh.
.
.
.
Why you laugh?


-- H. Simpson


----------



## KIRKRIDER

Peaceryder said:


> Just interested in freestyle riders thoughts on using helmets. I'm a pure freerider who hasn't had much experience with jumping/jibbing other than backcountry kickers into deeeeep pow, so I never wore a helmet, even though my mom bought me one about 12 years ago, lol. Do you guys bring your helmets along just for riding 'park' or no helmet use? I did not like the feel of a helmet on my head when I tried it way back in the day. Plus, the helmet was noticeably colder! Feel like I need to yell FREEEEEEEEEEEEDOM from the top of my lungs like William Wallace when I was wearing one. However, I do know that park riding is more deadly to your lightbulb...
> I should note that despite getting into more freestyle oriented riding this winter, if it snows, I'll be riding pow, not in the park
> Wanna protect my head while in the park, but don't exactly wanna lug a helmet around with me on my pack, already enough crap in there!
> 
> My question is, what are your thoughts on helmet use in respect to freestyle riding.


So if you like going fast down the mountain the answer should be obvious. Trees are harder than skulls? Wear one.


----------



## BigmountainVMD

I HATED my helmet from 15 years ago, but they have gotten so much lighter, warmer, and less obtrusive. I absolutely love my Smith Vantage and it is so light I can barely tell the difference between that and a thick beanie.

The trees in most glades in Maine are extremely close together, and you often get branches in the face when there is a lot of snow (plus I'm 6'3") so I love having a helmet so I can charge head first and not worry about it.

The one time I hit my head without a helmet on was enough to make me wear one constantly after that.


----------



## RedRomo

Krug said:


> I would much rather not wear a helmet, but here are the reasons why I do...
> 
> 1. 2 head concussions neither of which happened in the park. 1 was caused by an out of control skier and I was wearing a helmet. I still rode the rest of the day, but literally could not piece together a sentence and had a gnarly headache.
> 2. I like to ride through the trees...I'm guessing my head is not going to win of I hit a tree at speed
> 3. Double black diamonds with exposed rocks...in the even that I bite it, I would rather not tomohawk head first into a patch of them wearing a beenie...then again, even a helmet might not save me.
> 
> My main factor for wearing though, in all honesty is because I have kiddos and I'd hate for a nasty accident to take me out of their lives.
> 
> Andy


#3 for me too.


----------



## RedRomo

Krug said:


> I would much rather not wear a helmet, but here are the reasons why I do...
> 
> 1. 2 head concussions neither of which happened in the park. 1 was caused by an out of control skier and I was wearing a helmet. I still rode the rest of the day, but literally could not piece together a sentence and had a gnarly headache.
> 2. I like to ride through the trees...I'm guessing my head is not going to win of I hit a tree at speed
> 3. Double black diamonds with exposed rocks...in the even that I bite it, I would rather not tomohawk head first into a patch of them wearing a beenie...then again, even a helmet might not save me.
> 
> My main factor for wearing though, in all honesty is because I have kiddos and I'd hate for a nasty accident to take me out of their lives.
> 
> Andy


Kiddos and concussions for me too


----------



## ComeBack_Kid

This thread reminds me: I need a new helmet.

Also, for the few who mentioned Kevin Pearce as an example of why you should wear a helmet, HE WAS WEARING A HELMET WHEN HE WAS INJURED. 

Helmets are not a foolproof solution, but they are still a damn good idea. I know they don't look "steezy" and Torstein and Travis Rice don't always wear them, but the rest of us still should.


----------



## BarrettDSP

I have a wife, 2 small kids and a career so I want to be able to continue to provide for my family and spend time with them in the future so I started wearing on a few years ago. I know my first one saved me from a concussion as the back of my head fell straight back on a sheet of ice and I was still woozy the rest of the day. I know they arent fool proof but I feel that make the odds a little lower of getting hurt out there. Plus I know have one that i can hook my ipod up to and I dont even notice im wearing it most of the time.


----------



## 131441

This thread has convinced me to also purchase a helmet. I have another kid on the way in April, and it would be selfish of me (IMO only) to not protect myself.


I rode a long long time without. And if thats your choice that cool by me.


----------



## Gdog42

12 years ago? 
Go for a new helmet. Modern helmet are much lighter, lower-profile, breathable and warm. 
Mine came with 3 different sizes of pads so I could customize the fit. It now feels not much different than wearing a hat. 
I used to have the same opinion about helmets being uncomfortable, and wore a beanie most of the time, but that's because I used to have this crap ski racing helmet that made my head look- and feel- like a bowling ball! I never even notice the modern one I'm wearing now. It's a Giro Revolver. I also put my earphones in the ear pads, so now I can listen to music. Good shit!

Lib Tech makes a really low-profile helmet, and I think it's certified:
http://www.evo.com/helmets/lib-tech-burtner-helmet.aspx


----------



## mixie

so for those of you with the bern watts, how do you keep from over heating? 


I will wear it when it's cold, I prefer to wear it then. But anything over 40 degrees or so I overheat and can't wear it. I sweat so badly in it. If I take the lining out the helmet is so big that it's pretty much useless.....It's pretty snug with the lining snapped in. 


and on a really shallow note, aside from the over heating part I hate wearing it in the spring with just a long sleeved t shirt. I feel like I look top heavy and will topple over so I avoid wearing it in favor of a streamlined beanie. With a big puffy jacket on, the helmet looks more balanced and it bothers me less. I should really get over it. I know.


----------



## MarshallV82

Shit, Another Helmet thread. 

I wear one because I like how it holds my goggles in place and it makes me feel cozy. I don't always wear one though, so I'm sure I'll die a horrible death like the helmet police are predicting. The new Helmets are actually stylish and comfortable, for me anyway. If it's a nice blue bird day out I gotta ditch it for the Raybans and Beanie. 

I gotta look into getting one with the speakers built in, and some new goggles! any suggestions ?


----------



## MarshallV82

mixie said:


> and on a really shallow note, aside from the over heating part I hate wearing it in the spring with just a long sleeved t shirt. I feel like I look top heavy and will topple over so I avoid wearing it in favor of a streamlined beanie. With a big puffy jacket on, the helmet looks more balanced and it bothers me less. I should really get over it. I know.


Haha. 

Sadly, I think like this too! It makes me feel pretty damn goofy


----------



## snowklinger

mixie said:


> so for those of you with the bern watts, how do you keep from over heating?
> 
> 
> I will wear it when it's cold, I prefer to wear it then. But anything over 40 degrees or so I overheat and can't wear it. I sweat so badly in it. If I take the lining out the helmet is so big that it's pretty much useless.....It's pretty snug with the lining snapped in.
> 
> 
> and on a really shallow note, aside from the over heating part I hate wearing it in the spring with just a long sleeved t shirt. I feel like I look top heavy and will topple over so I avoid wearing it in favor of a streamlined beanie. With a big puffy jacket on, the helmet looks more balanced and it bothers me less. I should really get over it. I know.


I'm assuming that you have the vent cover removed. Honestly the Watts is the best ventilated of the 3 or 4 i've used lately. The earpads ARE HOT AS FUCK THO, I totally agree. I got a Ride helmet this summer that is cooler but I don't like it as much.

Been considering wearing a thin merino buff on my head to help evacuate sweat. :dunno:

I'm putting a pink unicorn on my next board gonna name it Mixie, fyi.


----------



## aloutris

KIRKRIDER said:


> This just popped up on my FB....Moving Forward - Trailer - YouTube


I watched this earlier today...
and now I just got home from buying a helmet xD


----------



## bubbachubba340

After a good few knocks WITH a helmet on that resulted in minor concussions. I haven't ridden a day without one since. I find that it gives me a lot more confidence to try new tricks on bigger features without much doubt in my mind. I wear a giro helmet that's the same style wise as I believe the Bern Watts with the visor. It has a ratchet system in the back similar to Boa/a hardhat that fits pretty nice.


----------



## mixie

snowklinger said:


> I'm assuming that you have the vent cover removed. Honestly the Watts is the best ventilated of the 3 or 4 i've used lately. The earpads ARE HOT AS FUCK THO, I totally agree. I got a Ride helmet this summer that is cooler but I don't like it as much.
> 
> Been considering wearing a thin merino buff on my head to help evacuate sweat. :dunno:
> 
> I'm putting a pink unicorn on my next board gonna name it Mixie, fyi.



Vent cover? No idea if it's open or not, I've not really looked at it that closely in the handful of times Ive actually worn it. 

but yeah, the ear pads my gawd they're redonkulously warm. Can't take it!

I don't like caps, so name it mixie, bitch.


----------



## bobthegood

Read a SB Forum post a couple of years ago that basically said, if you're going to buy a helmet, buy one you really like, 'cause if you don't like it, you won't wear it. I ended up with a K2 Crossfire? w/adjustable vents, speakers, ratchet adjustnment. More $$ than I wanted to spend, but now I won't ride without it.


----------



## Cycle4Fun

gauntlet09 said:


> Last year I discovered a pretty significant "stabbing" or "poking" type of impact on the top front of my helmet. Kinda looks like it was hit by a bullet.


Did you replace the helmet? The protection in that area is now compromised. This is from a man who's used 4 mountain bike helmets in 8 years.

Helmets are good for one serious impact.


----------



## mixie

Cycle4Fun said:


> This is from a man who's used *4 mountain bike helmets in 8 years.*


that's pretty good!!! back when I was racing road bikes I went thru at least one helmet per year :dizzy: It never failed to happen right after spending $$$ on a super lite weight well vented helmet. I crashed a frickin giro atmos a week after buying it. Man I was pissed. 

Some cheapie 50 dollar ugly looking bucket? Id never crash.


----------



## super-rad

I rode with a helmet for the first time on Saturday. I picked up a RED Theory helmet and I loved it. Kept me nice and warm and I felt more confident when pushing my limits a bit. I was very concerned about warmth, as my ears tend to get very cold, but I was nice and toasty all day. It was also surprisingly comfy. Barely noticed wearing it at all.


----------



## FacePlant4Free

aloutris said:


> I watched this earlier today...
> and now I just got home from buying a helmet xD


yeah that is def some scary shit. i couldn't imagine something like that happening to me. losing years of your life because of something like this would be insane.

i won't yell at anyone, i will simply suggest it. 

love my RED HiFi and it is sooo warm :thumbsup:


----------



## Howlingsonnets

aloutris said:


> I watched this earlier today...
> and now I just got home from buying a helmet xD


Always wore a helmet no matter how cool my beanie was or how uncool my helmet may have been....not everyone is as luck as him...very inspiring and it makes me wanna buy a helmet to give up to the most obnoxious teen who think they r too cool for school up on the mountain...


----------



## conspiracy

Wear your helmet! i could never think of doing rails without one. scares me. get a smith maze. they are 11.5 oz and you dont even feel. them. they are absolutely amazing


----------



## spinn3rs

Always wear a helmet.
Had an accident last year (a pine tree jumped into my path). I collided head first and was out for 20 minutes. Suffered a cracked wrist but no head injury. That was *WITH* a helmet on my mellon.
If i wasnt wearing one i wouldnt be able to plan my revenge this year.

Joking aside, that shit was scary and i wouldnt think of going up a hill without my helmet afterwards.


----------



## Donutz

spinn3rs said:


> Had an accident last year (a pine tree jumped into my path). I collided head first and was out for 20 minutes. Suffered a cracked wrist but no head injury. That was *WITH* a helmet on my mellon.
> If i wasnt wearing one i wouldnt be able to plan my revenge this year.


:laugh: Bringing an axe this year?


----------



## SnowDragon

Wow, what a thread!
In the short time I've been on this site I haven't seen Snowolf so pissed over something, so you know this is quite the topic.

Let me throw a few thoughts into the discussion.

If you are in the U.S., ABSOLUTELY it is your choice to wear or not wear, and should stay that way.
Now I don't know how your health insurance premiums work there, but clearly they should be WAY higher for people who participate in risky activities without taking reasonable precautions. If your health insurer will cover you for all the treatment, therapy and aftercare (possibly years to rest of your life) for a serious injury and doesn't charge you a ton more in premiums, take advantage of that!!! Dodge the uncomfortable, unstylish brain bucket and maximize your freedom! Since you are comfortable with taking the risk, and your insurer is also comfortable with that, exercise your freedom!! YAH!!
And don't forget your contribution to the economy - keeping all those health care, therapy and long term care workers gainfully employed. Nice...

Now, how many of you who don't wear helmets, wear goggles?
Goggles? Really?
Aren't goggles just eyeglasses for sport activities? And we all know from our school days that eyeglasses are not cool. Only geeks/nerds/brainiacs wear glasses. SOOO unstylish. AND uncomfortable. Having a tight-fitting strap running around your head? Pressing a band of foam against your face with a coloured piece of plastic, which may fog up, obstructing your vision? Come on! Does it get more uncomfortable than that?? How do you see anything with that on?? Go ahead, ditch it.
Really, are there any BENEFITS to wearing goggles?



Okay, I hope I've brought a different take on why (I think) a helmet should be worn. But I'm not up for making it mandatory - at least in the U.S. Here in Canada where health care is universal and is funded by the taxpayer, I don't want my tax money taking care of some vegetable for the rest of his/her life because h/she didn't want to be "uncomfortable" or "not stylish". Many resorts here require a helmet if you go into the terrain park.


----------



## conspiracy

Donutz said:


> :laugh: Bringing an axe this year?


revenge is near.


----------



## aloutris

GreyDragon said:


> Wow, what a thread!
> In the short time I've been on this site I haven't seen Snowolf so pissed over something, so you know this is quite the topic.
> 
> Let me throw a few thoughts into the discussion.
> 
> If you are in the U.S., ABSOLUTELY it is your choice to wear or not wear, and should stay that way.
> Now I don't know how your health insurance premiums work there, but clearly they should be WAY higher for people who participate in risky activities without taking reasonable precautions. If your health insurer will cover you for all the treatment, therapy and aftercare (possibly years to rest of your life) for a serious injury and doesn't charge you a ton more in premiums, take advantage of that!!! Dodge the uncomfortable, unstylish brain bucket and maximize your freedom! Since you are comfortable with taking the risk, and your insurer is also comfortable with that, exercise your freedom!! YAH!!
> And don't forget your contribution to the economy - keeping all those health care, therapy and long term care workers gainfully employed. Nice...
> 
> Now, how many of you who don't wear helmets, wear goggles?
> Goggles? Really?
> Aren't goggles just eyeglasses for sport activities? And we all know from our school days that eyeglasses are not cool. Only geeks/nerds/brainiacs wear glasses. SOOO unstylish. AND uncomfortable. Having a tight-fitting strap running around your head? Pressing a band of foam against your face with a coloured piece of plastic, which may fog up, obstructing your vision? Come on! Does it get more uncomfortable than that?? How do you see anything with that on?? Go ahead, ditch it.
> Really, are there any BENEFITS to wearing goggles?
> 
> 
> 
> Okay, I hope I've brought a different take on why (I think) a helmet should be worn. But I'm not up for making it mandatory - at least in the U.S. Here in Canada where health care is universal and is funded by the taxpayer, I don't want my tax money taking care of some vegetable for the rest of his/her life because h/she didn't want to be "uncomfortable" or "not stylish". Many resorts here require a helmet if you go into the terrain park.


I get what you're saying, but snow reflects the sun and that can damage your eyes. Also it protects the eyes from wind and the cold.
Not as important as a helmet though


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## mixie

GreyDragon said:


> Now I don't know how your health insurance premiums work there, but clearly they should be WAY higher for people who participate in risky activities without taking reasonable precautions.



you admit to knowing NOTHING about a particular topic (who covers premiums) so at least you know you're ignorant and to ignore the rest of your post. Thanks for the heads up.


So uh...who gets to decide what risky behavior is? 


eating cheeseburgers every day? Skyd Diving? Smoking weed? Doing prescription pills? Riding a bike on the road in rush hour traffic (which even with a helm is pretty fucking dangerous where I live. 

Riding a motorcycle? Being a couch potato? Having unprotected sex with random strangers? 

So, who should pay more then? And how much more? 

and what happens if you DONT have a helmet on but you break your leg? 



oh wait, you already stated you don't know what you're talking about so Im guessing you're not gonna have any answers, either.


----------



## SnowDragon

Mr. Mixie, I said I don't know how the premiums are set in the U.S. In Canada, if you buy travel insurance, you are required by the insurer to disclose if you will be participating in any "high risk" activities. You have to tell them what it is before you are issued the coverage or else you are not covered for injury sustained doing that activity. The premium for the policy goes up accordingly, if they insure you at all

And, uh, since the insurance company is the entity providing the coverage, it is in their sole discretion to decide what is risky, and how much they wish to charge you for coverage, if they cover you at all.

I BELIEVE that similar practices exist in the U.S., (aren't professional athletes restricted from participating in "risky" activities by their insurance policies in the U.S.?) but I can't say for sure as I don't buy insurance there, so I didn't want to be arrogant and make any assumptions

That should take care of your summary comment that I know nothing about what I'm talking. I do - from experience. You can put your head back down now, from wherever you extracted it.

Mr. Aloutris, you are correct of course, and I knew that when I posted. But, as you mention, those things CAN occur (they may not). The rider is free to take the risk of eye damage occurring, just the same as head damage occurring when not wearing a helmet. My point about choosing comfort over safety is still valid in this illustration I believe.


----------



## chomps1211

mixie said:


> ...I went thru at least one helmet per year :dizzy: It never failed to happen right after spending $$$ on a super lite weight well vented helmet.
> 
> ...Some cheapie 50 dollar ugly looking bucket? Id never crash.


That's "Murphy!" ...it's the _Law_!!! 




onji said:


> I always ride with my helmet, even groomers can be dangerous,.. Furthermore you never know when some muppet is going to come flying into you.
> 
> ...Like I've said before. Helmets can be replaced, head's cant.





Lamps said:


> this is the argument that can't be refuted unless you claim to have spidey sense and eyes in the back of your head, no matter how good you are some dufus can crash into you.


How True, How True!! ...from my own personal experience, lest you need reminding!! :laugh:


----------



## Donutz

mixie said:


> So uh...who gets to decide what risky behavior is?


No idea what I'm stepping into here, but to answer the actual question: the actuarial tables. There's more than enough statistical data to identify risky behaviours. In fact insurance companies use it all the time. That's why smokers get a lower rate (among many many other examples).


----------



## mixie

GreyDragon said:


> Mr. Mixie, I said I don't know how the premiums are set in the U.S. In Canada, if you buy travel insurance, you are required by the insurer to disclose i.



Im a bit confused...are we talking about health insurance or travel insurance or life insurance. I can't tell from your post? There's quite a bit of difference 


actuary tables for life insurance don't cover a lot of activities. And depending on who pays your premium (you or your employer) you may or may not need to disclose any information.


which is funny, I know a few people who've gone on major cleanse diets and quit smoking and partying for the month prior to getting life insurance physicals. You know, so they;re test results would have better numbers...which is why the whole thing is just....bogus.


----------



## Donutz

mixie said:


> actuary tables for life insurance don't cover a lot of activities. And depending on who pays your premium (you or your employer) you may or may not need to disclose any information.
> 
> 
> which is funny, I know a few people who've gone on major cleanse diets and quit smoking and partying for the month prior to getting life insurance physicals. You know, so they;re test results would have better numbers...which is why the whole thing is just....bogus.


The insurance companies have access to a lot more statistics than those that they are allowed to use, i.e. they can't set your rates based on your religious beliefs, but you can bet they know how religious beliefs affect health!

As for the cleansing thing -- that's just stupid. If you claim you don't smoke and you get a policy based on that, and if an autopsy (or whatever) shows you were a smoker then your policy is void and you've paid a lot of premiums for nothing. Might as well just not get a policy.


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## NorthCoastRider

Wear a helmet, or don't, it's your choice. But if you smoke your noggin without one its too late at that point.

I've been boarding/ skiing for almost 30 years and only started wearing a helmet this year. I've only had 1 bad crash in all those years (landed on my hip in the park) but I starting wearing one for my kids. 

I want them to always wear a helmet so I wear one.


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## Donutz

NorthCoastRider said:


> Wear a helmet, or don't, it's your choice. But if you smoke your noggin without one its too late at that point.
> 
> I've been boarding/ skiing for almost 30 years and only started wearing a helmet this year. I've only had 1 bad crash in all those years (landed on my hip in the park) but I starting wearing one for my kids.
> 
> I want them to always wear a helmet so I wear one.


:thumbsup: yeah, the "do as I say not as I do" thing doesn't work well with the young'ns. And as much as you may be willing to take chances with your own bean, if one of your kids became a vegetable because you set a bad example you'd be in hell for the rest of your life.


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## EatMyTracers

I didn't wear one my first few times but then my brother hit a tree and I have seen to many people with concussions so I always do now.


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## Flick Montana

I wear a helmet more out of concern from laceration from other boarders/skiers than concussions. Still, never a bad idea to protect the old bean.


----------



## Lady

In my first season I used to wear only cute beanies. After a scary accident I decided to buy a helmet. I must say yes, wear it!!! Now I feel safe and warm. Helmet save my head several times.


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## faridk89

the REASON said:


> its uncomfortable.


Last year I started wearing a helmet and got some piece of shit from K2 for like 45 bucks, it sucked major cock and it was uncomfortable as hell..

This year I got myself a 2013 Burton Red Mutiny with speakers in it. It's light, keeps me warm and not bulky. 

You get what you pay for, and I'd pay a little extra to keep myself safe


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## t21

I wear a helmet everytime because i want to and i need to. someone said "is $130 really worth it?" my take on that is i'd rather pay that much rather than pay thousands of dollars of hospital bills if you get injured:dunno:


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## conspiracy

haha i learned that you gotta have the helmet on tight, if not, it wont do much good. learned that one trying to frontflip...


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## Arlen

Hey! You're not the one, who don't like to wear helmet. But helmets are not for making the style statement, it is used to protect head in case of fall or mishap.....So it is better to be safe. I will personally recommend you to wear helmet in any condition.....


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## freshy

I tried to wear one one year and I hated it. I wear one of those neck toques and the helmet straps always got in the way. My ears were always cold. And lest importantly I looked and felt like a tool.

But once I start shredding with my daughter I will wear one ONLY when she's there.


----------



## conspiracy

freshy said:


> I tried to wear one one year and I hated it. I wear one of those neck toques and the helmet straps always got in the way. My ears were always cold. And lest importantly I looked and felt like a tool.
> 
> But once I start shredding with my daughter I will wear one ONLY when she's there.


like iv said b4. try smith maze. they are sooo light and comfy and my ears stay warm


----------



## Whoracle

I wear a helmet, its a POC recepter bug. I was riding in between 2 runs at White Pass following a skiers tracks. I guess I'm not as agile as he was, and while trying to squeeze between a group of 3 trees I caught my head on one. Gave me a gnarly black eye and a mild concussion even though I was wearing a helmet. Stay safe out there everyone!


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## freshy

conspiracy said:


> like iv said b4. try smith maze. they are sooo light and comfy and my ears stay warm


Do you happen to know if the maze will fit with those huge electric eg2 goggles?


----------



## conspiracy

freshy said:


> Do you happen to know if the maze will fit with those huge electric eg2 goggles?


im not sure i can check cuz my friend has em. i tried eg 2.5 (HUGE!!!) and they seemed to fit well except they were to big for my face.


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## conspiracy

i, personally use Oakley crowbars. they fit really well and i love the feel of those goggles.


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## that1guy

Waxed it off a box yesterday on the last run. Went upside down on my head and landed all kinds of fucked up. Got a mild concussion, neck stinger and a black left eye. Wife is buying me a helmet today. Now I am at work and can barely move my neck and mah head hurts like the dickens.


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## faridk89

Read this guys, pretty sad and the kid was wearing a helmet at the park. Rumor is he landed on his neck but I guess we'll never actually know.

Teen dies after fall at Uxbridge ski resort - thestar.com


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## 306stang

Got a Smith Holt audio last year. Lightweight and great fit. Not sure why it took so long for me to get one......been riding for about 16-17 years.


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## double

I got a concussion not wearing a helmet about 12 years ago and have worn a helmet every since. Even if that had not happened to me I would still wear a helmet for three reasons:

1) First and foremost, I have children and need to set a good example for them and not get hurt so that I can be there for them.

2) My wife is a doctor and after working emergency room covering trauma (during her residency) she emphatically will tell anyone who asks that she would NEVER ski/board without a helmet (or ride a motorcycle under any condition). She is not an alarmist at all but has seen first hand the effects of head injuries and the ability to try to protect oneself by putting on a helmet is so easy.

3) No matter how good of a rider you are, stuff happens (that is why they are called accidents). It can be another rider, tree stump or rock you don't see when conditions are poor, etc.. that creates a bad situation.

I don't pass judgement and folks can do what they want but I am surprised that helmets are not mandatory on all mountains and believe they will be.


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## crash77

I never wanted or felt the need to wear a helmet until....my son and I went on a MLK weekend trip to Camelback in PA. Last run on Sunday night (blue ice run) I washed out and it happened so fast I couldn't have braced myself if I wanted to. Long story short, I immediately knew I had a concussion, a mild concussion but a concussion none the less. And to add insult to injury, a separated shoulder. Needless to say I'll be getting a helmet. I love riding to much to risk taking myself out of the sport.


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## jennifer

This is my very first season. I bought a helmet and wear it on the bunny hill. There are a few reasons.

My daughter is 7. She is in her second ski season. I make her wear a helmet, and I try very hard not to be a hypocrite. So if I want her to wear one and think its cool I need to wear one. She has a seperate helmet for her biking, skating, scootering. It is my job to protect her...and if that means me putting on a helmet with her then so be it. 

I am a mom. I can not risk not being there for her as she grows up. So if I am going to do something risky I need to take every precaution I can. 

Last weekend I had a nasty fall that involved flipping several times and tumling. It was scary. Even more scary was how bad my head hurt and how dizzy I was after hitting my head. I was on any icy bunny hill...not like I was out there on a diamond run. 

My husband does not wear a helmet. He never has. Been boarding for 20 years, and on skis before that. I don't nag him. It is his life. I have told him I would prefer that he wear one, but I left it at that. I am not his mother. It is a choice. I can think your choice is stupid all I want...but I am not going to advocate taking that choice away from you. 

I DO think it is pretty damn stupid to sit there and say that you are never going to have an accident because you can control all the things that cause accidents. Obviously you have already sustained some sort of brain damage if you really think that. Kind of like someone saying they dont need a condom with a hooker because they can totally tell that the chick is clean....and can totally pull out so there is no way she can get knocked up. It is the shit you dont see that can kill you.


----------



## Gdog42

I was on the chairlift today and we saw a guy in the park below fall on a steep rail. He wasn't wearing a helmet in his head was this close ok to hitting the rail- just barely missed.

That was one lucky guy. But had his head just been an inch to his right, it would have been lights out for him.

I have personally taken multiple falls and slammed my head hard. The worst was on solid ice and even with the helmet on properly, it was still painful and I had to sit there for a while before I felt ok to get going again. Just a hour earlier, before I went in for lunch, I had been riding around with only a beanie since I has been hesitant to wear my helmet. All I was thinking was that if I hadn't chosen to wear my helmet it would be very likely that I might not be here now. Always been wearing one when snowboarding since that incident, and it has saved me from many other impacts. 

jennifer was exactly right- I've only hit my head hard when I've least expected it. I don't have to worry so much about it though by wearing a helmet. A friend of mine told me he's going to try snowboarding for the first time next week. After telling him about the recent death of that girl in MI and some of my own experiences I told him, "whatever you do, wear a helmet. It doesn't matter if you rent or buy one, just make sure you wear a helmet." Thankfully he completely agreed, because he actually cares about making a ridiculously simple and harmless decision to dramatically increase his protection and decrease his chances of long-term injury. 

Recently I've honestly been seeing more people wearing helmets that I do not wearing helmets. Just a few years ago it was the other way around, but now most people seem to actually care about preventing brain damage. :thumbsup: This only shows that people no longer give a shit about looking a little more bulky on the head, and don't give a crap if they see someone else wearing them.

One additional thing I like about my helmet is that I've rigged an audio system in the ear pads. One could suggest headphones instead, but I once saw a guy whose headphones fell off after landing a jump. Because mine are inside the helmet, they can't fall off when riding.


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## that1guy

conspiracy said:


> like iv said b4. try smith maze. they are sooo light and comfy and my ears stay warm



This is what I have. I like it ok I guess. It is way different feeling than wearing a beanie. They are really light and comfy though. Only thing I don't like, when going super fast it is really loud with whistling sounds coming through my helmet. Kind of annoying but I can deal.


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## smokebelch109

Helmets are warm and comfortable, just find the right one. I never used to wear one and was always skeptical of wether they'd be warm enough or useful... But i now fully appreciate it. I hit my head on a rail this year (wearing a helmet) and got hit by a stray ski. Better safe than sorry and tbh some of the designs look pretty cool. Warm as hell even in -10 Celcius + windchill i was warm and toasty, built in headphones are way better than having earbuds in too, my ears used to be in agony from wearing earbuds+hat all day.

the question 'how much do you value your life' comes to mind.

I found it helped make me somewhat braver too.


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## conspiracy

that1guy said:


> This is what I have. I like it ok I guess. It is way different feeling than wearing a beanie. They are really light and comfy though. Only thing I don't like, when going super fast it is really loud with whistling sounds coming through my helmet. Kind of annoying but I can deal.


I dont get that at all. Mine fits perfectly and there are no gaps for wind :3


----------



## Soul06

I'd love to ride without a helmet. Feels better. Looks cooler. Like the original poster said, "Its FREEDOM!!!!" However seeing as how I ride the Ice Coast, how i've been run into from behind, how I've been tripped up by the mysterious rock that looked like a piece of snow or twig/grass pertruding from a thin area that I didn't notice causing me to slam backwards to the ground I will FOREVER wear a helmet.
Falls can happen anytime and I would like to be able to return home to my wife in the same condition I left.


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## Extremo

+1 for the helmet.

This is my first year wearing a helmet. Last year I got knocked out with a grade III concussion, no helmet. I didn't even remember how I got to work the next day. I ended up getting taken to the hospital for a CAT scan. 

At first I hated it and found it distracting. Now I don't even notice it. When I ride without it I feel like something's missing. And it def has the added benefit of keeping my head warm on windy and sub freezing days. 

Now I look at few kids without helmets riding the park and think what an idiot, kind of the way I look at hockey goalies from the 70's.


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## waimatao

I generally always wear a helmet now. I was introduced to a guy a few years back who could only communicate through pen and paper. He had lost all ability to speak in an accident, and yup, the accident occurred on a boarding trip in Japan... wasn't wearing a helmet. 
His advice- obvious innit, wear a helmet.


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## xDOTY

Always, Always, Always.


Got a concussion last year from falling off a rail even with my helmet. I compressed the foam in the back.

When you catch an edge (happens to all of us at some point) you will be thankful you had it. It keeps you warm and today they are very light and stylish. 

Do it.


----------



## danzo

After cracking my helmet this year doing a regular run (caught an edge on ice) I can only recommend that a helmet always be worn unless you consider yourself a professional. 

It will save your life when you least expect it, even if that's 1/10 time you make impact with your head. I value my noodle, don't see why others wouldn't.


----------



## Easto

When I first took up skiing no one wore a helmet. If you had a helmet on people would likely laugh at you.

Fast Forward to today and I would say at least half the people on the hill (probably more) wear a helmet. It's not cool nor nerdy to wear a helmet. It's like gloves vs mitts. No one cares if you wear mitts vs gloves. No one cares if you wear a helmet vs not wearing a helmet.

If you have concerns about your safety and choose to wear a helmet, then go for it.

If you don't feel like wearing one for some other reason other than not being cool, then don't wear one.

I wear one because I have hit my head on the slopes before and I had a brief blackout and a huge headache for the rest of the day. Likely got a concussion. Would a helmet have helped me? I don't know ..... I will let you know next time I smack my head hard and if my helmet helps


----------



## Bullboy145

I will always wear a helmet, and have since I started. I have people I go with sometimes blaming me for making them wear helmets, because of my gnarly crash my first year out. One in particular could have been bitching about his head last night rather than his back when he fell on a patch of ice. When I see people not wearing helmets, especially in the park, I just think, "Bro/brah, you are gonna end up on an mf'n stretcher."


----------



## neni

I ALWAYS ride with helmet, never felt uncomfortable with it and never cold (we can have -20°C). 10 years ago, it was only a bunch of snowboarders waring helmets here, now its 99% of skiers and I havn't seen one on a board without in this year. 

After an out of control skier hit me in the back with a ski edge, I even began to wear a back protector if I'm riding without backpack (with integrated protector).

I'm quite happy to have a working brain and back. Somehow it happens to be that I only like sports where you risk them :dunno: but I at least can try to protect them.


----------



## Gdog42

On Saturday I attempted an arched rail, but slipped sideways and fell. The back of my head smacked the rail and I was on the ground. Weird thing is that I never saw myself fall. It was just slip, slam, somehow on the ground looking up in a second. My vision went yellow for a moment and I could feel my brain swelling a little inside my skull. I guy came over and asked if he should call ski patrol but I said I thought I was ok and luckily I was, except for the headache for the rest of the day.

All this happened with my helmet on. I can't imagine what it would have been like had I not been wearing it. 
The helmet itself looks fine but I don't think I can afford another at the moment if it does turn out to be cracked.


----------



## East§ide

Gdog42 said:


> On Saturday I attempted an arched rail, but slipped sideways and fell. The back of my head smacked the rail and I was on the ground. Weird thing is that I never saw myself fall. It was just slip, slam, somehow on the ground looking up in a second. My vision went yellow for a moment and I could feel my brain swelling a little inside my skull. I guy came over and asked if he should call ski patrol but I said I thought I was ok and luckily I was, except for the headache for the rest of the day.
> 
> All this happened with my helmet on. I can't imagine what it would have been like had I not been wearing it.
> The helmet itself looks fine but I don't think I can afford another at the moment if it does turn out to be cracked.


classic example of a helmet probably saving you from being a vegetable.

theres literally NO reason not to wear a helmet. i wear one every single time I ride now.


----------



## PDubz

I wear a helmet most the time, but not always. I agree it's a great idea to always wear one but on a nice spring day when I want to hit the park in a T-shirt I'll forgo the helmet. It should be up to each person IMO, I very, very rarely hit my head anyway. The times I have I was glad to be wearing a helm though! 

Sue me. =)


----------



## East§ide

PDubz said:


> I wear a helmet most the time, but not always. I agree it's a great idea to always wear one but on a nice spring day *when I want to hit the park in a T-shirt I'll forgo the helmet. It should be up to each person IMO, I very, very rarely hit my head anyway. The times I have I was glad to be wearing a helm though! *
> 
> Sue me. =)


if the idiocy of this doesn't jump out at you, ill be amazed. when you want to go hit the park (which is inherently more dangerous) youll forego the helmet for what purpose? you cant wear a t shirt with a helmet? 
you "rarely hit your head"? all it takes is one time. sarah burke. liam neeson's wife. etc. etc. etc.
yet you admit the times you have hit your head, you were glad you had one on. i hope for your sake you never have to regret NOT wearing one.


----------



## stickz

I easily smacked my hard enough Monday on some icy moguls to get a concussion. I've had 2 from other sports. but because I was wearing my helmet all I have is a small bruise next to my left eye. my helmet is so light is really is almost not noticeable.


----------



## PDubz

East§ide said:


> if the idiocy of this doesn't jump out at you, ill be amazed. when you want to go hit the park (which is inherently more dangerous) youll forego the helmet for what purpose? you cant wear a t shirt with a helmet?
> you "rarely hit your head"? all it takes is one time. sarah burke. liam neeson's wife. etc. etc. etc.
> yet you admit the times you have hit your head, you were glad you had one on. i hope for your sake you never have to regret NOT wearing one.


I agree it's a stupid statement, but It's what I do. Helmets were not very popular when I started skateboarding and snowboarding, ...I lived. I can get killed driving to the resort as well, but I still take the risk of driving on ice. I'd rather get killed riding than killed at work, My job is just as or more dangerous even with the safety precautions. 

Even when I hit the park without the Helmet, I hit features I'm confident on and don't use that time to progress. I'm not saying I ride reckless with a helmet, but I push my limits more. (Helmets are f**king hot when it's 50 degrees, and I don't like looking like a bobble-head)

Please feel free to set up a tent by the chairlift and give away free food to people who don helmets while spewing your point. =)


----------



## East§ide

I think it's far from spewing my point..just making your point look idiotic. Actually, you really did that yourself. You even admitted its stupid. I'd rather look like a bobble head than a vegetable, and when it's 50* out take your helmet off between runs. Football players practice in 100+* heat in full pads. You can't ride a snowboard in 50* weather with a helmet cause its too hot ? LOL


----------



## nmk

Peaceryder said:


> Just interested in freestyle riders thoughts on using helmets. I'm a pure freerider who hasn't had much experience with jumping/jibbing other than backcountry kickers into deeeeep pow, so I never wore a helmet, even though my mom bought me one about 12 years ago, lol. Do you guys bring your helmets along just for riding 'park' or no helmet use? I did not like the feel of a helmet on my head when I tried it way back in the day. Plus, the helmet was noticeably colder! Feel like I need to yell FREEEEEEEEEEEEDOM from the top of my lungs like William Wallace when I was wearing one. However, I do know that park riding is more deadly to your lightbulb...
> I should note that despite getting into more freestyle oriented riding this winter, if it snows, I'll be riding pow, not in the park
> Wanna protect my head while in the park, but don't exactly wanna lug a helmet around with me on my pack, already enough crap in there!
> 
> My question is, what are your thoughts on helmet use in respect to freestyle riding.


Can't imagine riding without a helmet! In Austria, icy conditions are of the norm and a helmet saved me from some nasty headaches already. Ass protector, knee protector are standard for me. Thinking about elbow protectors next. Feels strange to ride without 'em. Helmet cold? Which helmet did you try?! Yeah, helmet head looks pretty goofy but when everyone has it.... who cares. Here in Europe, on many slopes helmets are mandatory for kids and I would say now 80% of all skiers and boarders wear helmets, if not more.


----------



## jjz

I know a guy who finally listened to his mom and put on a helmet for the first time.

On the last day of the trip, he hit a tree head first, without the helmet he could of died. 

thats all i gotta say.


----------



## Soggysnow

I always wear one.There are so many styles and colours and shapes now too.
I smashed my head on the ground a couple weeks back and would have definitely done some real damage if I was not wearing one. I totally would have needed to take time off riding, something that no one wants to do!
A guy this year died last run, didn't run into anything, just caught and edge fell...and unfortunately had nothing to help absorb the impact and died. So sad.


----------



## MarshallV82

Can these threads be considered as Politics and banished from the forums?
... Nothing but an ongoing war, you could replace Helmet with Gun control and Abortion and have the same results.

Better get some sleep, I'm headed to the Mtn tomorrow. No helmet this week though, can't find it :dunno: Left it in a buddies truck maybe. Hopefully I can survive...


----------



## poutanen

MarshallV82 said:


> Can these threads be considered as Politics and banished from the forums?
> ... Nothing but an ongoing war, you could replace Helmet with Gun control and Abortion and have the same results.


Seeing as how it's DIRECTLY related to snowboarding... :dunno:


----------



## MarshallV82

poutanen said:


> Seeing as how it's DIRECTLY related to snowboarding... :dunno:


Worth a shot. I just want it to die!

Rant over.


----------



## poutanen

MarshallV82 said:


> Worth a shot. I just want it to die!
> 
> Rant over.


Fair enough, I think this is one of those things that'll keep going though. I think it's safe to say the logic is there for wearing vs. not, so people will keep coming and preaching the gospel!!! lol


----------



## stupidmop

Personally, I find no downside to them these days. I actually like the way they look with all the different models that are available.


----------



## danm

Sorry, but Helmets :thumbsup: ... Beanies/bare head :thumbsdown: ... just my opinion...

danm


----------



## SuperNewb

I had too much speed on a jump this past weekend, completely overshot the landing, and smacked my head against the ground.

My neck is a little sore, and I had a tiny headache. Without the helmet, I probably would have had a pretty bad concussion.


----------



## East§ide

Or worse. All I have to do is think of Liam Neeson's wife and there's never a decision to make. It doesn't matter how good you are, you can ALWAYS make the simplest of mistakes.. And it can cost you everything


----------



## m0rph3us

My very first day learning, I caught a mean heel edge and cracked my head. Nothing serious, but enough to realise that I could easily do some damage in a similar situation.

Worn a helmet ever since. Whacked it a few times hard enough to know I would've been in trouble without it.


----------



## faridk89

Discussing if people should wear a helmet or not to wear a helmet is like discussing if you should wear a condom or not.... Obviously you should wear a condom but a lot of people don't, the best you can do is educate people and get the information out. 

The rest is up to the individual...:dunno:


----------



## EastCoastChris

Ha! Great thread. When I started riding in the early 90s...NO ONE wore helmet. Not skiiers, not snowboarders. I NEVER wore a helmet and end up with a couple minor concussions.
Upon returning to a board after a while off I was so pleased to see almost everyone on the hill wearing a helmet. I rented a helmet and just purchased a Bern Baker EPS and felt muuuuch safer wearing it. It was warmer and more comfortable than a beanie and I wasnt dropping my goggles all over the place.


----------



## freshy

faridk89 said:


> Discussing if people should wear a helmet or not to wear a helmet is like discussing if you should wear a condom or not.... Obviously you should wear a condom but a lot of people don't, the best you can do is educate people and get the information out.
> 
> The rest is up to the individual...:dunno:


I don't wear either . Been with the same chick since 1999 so I don't need to worry about getting an STD. And been riding since 1988 so I pretty much know my limits by now. 
The only reason I would consider wearing one is when I take my 3 year old out to the hill to set a good example.


----------



## freshy

nmk said:


> Can't imagine riding without a helmet! In Austria, icy conditions are of the norm and a helmet saved me from some nasty headaches already. Ass protector, knee protector are standard for me. Thinking about elbow protectors next. Feels strange to ride without 'em. Helmet cold? Which helmet did you try?! Yeah, helmet head looks pretty goofy but when everyone has it.... who cares. Here in Europe, on many slopes helmets are mandatory for kids and I would say now 80% of all skiers and boarders wear helmets, if not more.


I can't imagine wearing all that stuff, but I can imagine what you look like.







:cheeky4:


----------



## globoat

faridk89 said:


> Discussing if people should wear a helmet or not to wear a helmet is like discussing if you should wear a condom or not.... Obviously you should wear a condom but a lot of people don't, the best you can do is educate people and get the information out.
> 
> The rest is up to the individual...:dunno:


A+ to this post!


----------



## nmk

freshy said:


> I can't imagine wearing all that stuff, but I can imagine what you look like.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> :cheeky4:


Close, sometimes when the conditions are bad, I wish I had more bubble wrap.


----------



## Nerozor

Ive never really worn a helmet, except when I was younger and thought those chrome helmets was so badass  But anyway, to me it seems like wearing a helmet is very trendy thesedays, and your sort of an outsider if you dont. When your queing for the lift, and your the only guy without helmet, its sort of.... wierd?


----------



## seant46

freshy said:


> I can't imagine wearing all that stuff, but I can imagine what you look like.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> :cheeky4:


LOL :laugh:


----------



## tokyo_dom

Wife took a nasty fall off a medium kicker yesterday; left the launch heelside and of course the board went out in front of her, landed on her butt and whacked her head. Was fairly slushy conditions so no concussions/dizzyness but she still ended up with a headache for the rest of the afternoon.

And yet she *still* refuses to wear a helmet. Thinks it makes everyone think you are a pro that does backflips off 50ft jumps (mind you i wouldnt go out without my helmet and i am far from that level)

Anyone have any suggestions for a 'cute' helmet? Or something that is low profile/doesnt stand out too much?


----------



## Gdog42

tokyo_dom said:


> Anyone have any suggestions for a 'cute' helmet? Or something that is low profile/doesnt stand out too much?


From what I've seen, Bern makes the lowest-profile helmets in a variety of colors and styles. The lining is like a beanie and has soft fur around it (like wearing my Chihuahua on my head :laugh. I think your wife would like that.

Just make sure it has EPS or is certified; a couple seasons ago Bern's lower-end helmet wasn't. 

Lib Tech also has an insanely low-profile helmet that is certified. Right now I have a Giro Revolver. I put earphones in the audio pads though, because the Skull Candy one they make for it is crap.

I bet she would want to wear the helmet If you got her an audio-compatible one! Outdoor Technology is releasing a wireless helmet audio system this year in September- man I can't wait to get one of those!


----------



## East§ide

LOL at Freshy.. You know your limitations.. That's laughable. Ill bet you NEVER catch an edge or make a mistake. What an idiot


----------



## MarshallV82

East§ide said:


> LOL at Freshy.. You know your limitations.. That's laughable. Ill bet you NEVER catch an edge or make a mistake. What an idiot


No need for the insults.. It's not illegal to ride without a helmet. Do you just stand in the lift line scolding people for not wearing helmets? I think it's great that most people wear helmets but it's a personal choice and should remain that way. More people get ran over walking to work than hurt/killed while skiing/riding.


----------



## tokyo_dom

Gdog thanks for the suggestions; Will look at some of those offerings.

The audio thing i am not so sure on, neither of us ride with audio at the moment (hard enough to communicate out there as it is).

Was actually just going to get her one of those pads for the back of your head; but i am pretty sure she wont turn down a fairly low profile helmet if it came as a present


----------



## tokyo_dom

Bern Brighton Hard Hat - Women's | evo

That one seems to fit the 'cute' citeria, but doesnt seem to conform to safety standards (and it costs more than the ones that do  )


----------



## KansasNoob

Just figured I'd mention, I have a Red Trace II. No issues with the quality, it's actually pretty nice, and fits my head good, but is absolutely unbearable on my ears. By 1 in the afternoon they'll be throbbing. As much as I like the helmet itself, my ears can't take it so I'm hunting for another. Just a thought for those of you with higher set or larger ears.


----------



## stickz

KansasNoob said:


> Just figured I'd mention, I have a Red Trace II. No issues with the quality, it's actually pretty nice, and fits my head good, but is absolutely unbearable on my ears. By 1 in the afternoon they'll be throbbing. As much as I like the helmet itself, my ears can't take it so I'm hunting for another. Just a thought for those of you with higher set or larger ears.


try red helmets by burton. I have the wifi and love it.


----------



## ig88

stickz said:


> try red helmets by burton. I have the wifi and love it.


How does wifi relate to helmets. Please elaborate?


----------



## East§ide

MarshallV82 said:


> No need for the insults.. It's not illegal to ride without a helmet. Do you just stand in the lift line scolding people for not wearing helmets? I think it's great that most people wear helmets but it's a personal choice and should remain that way. More people get ran over walking to work than hurt/killed while skiing/riding.


I'm not insulting him for not wearing a helmet.. That's a personal choice and while I don't agree that's his perogative. Saying that he knows his limitations and therefore wouldn't fall on his head is an idiotic statement though


----------



## KansasNoob

stickz said:


> try red helmets by burton. I have the wifi and love it.


I have had a Red helmet before that I liked, just can't put up with this one. I'll go try some on Saturday when I get to Pagosa.


----------



## Donutz

MarshallV82 said:


> No need for the insults.. It's not illegal to ride without a helmet. Do you just stand in the lift line scolding people for not wearing helmets? I think it's great that most people wear helmets but it's a personal choice and should remain that way. More people get ran over walking to work than hurt/killed while skiing/riding.


That's because more people walk to work more often. A per capita comparison would be more accurate.

As to the insults, when you make a statement on the forum, no-one is obligated to agree with you. I think it was a dumb statement as well. I'd probably phrase it a little better...  But yeah people know their limitations and don't need helmets just like they know their liquor capacity and don't need to take a taxi.


----------



## EastCoastChris

tokyo_dom said:


> Bern Brighton Hard Hat - Women's | evo
> 
> That one seems to fit the 'cute' citeria, but doesnt seem to conform to safety standards (and it costs more than the ones that do  )


Its part of the Bern Hard Hat line. Since it doesnt conform to standards, they cant call it a "helmet." Well...they probably can but they dont. 

Look at the Bern lines that say EPS. Very similar look...harder foam for big impacts.


----------



## Nerozor

I really like Sweet Protection helmets, so I guess ill get one!


----------



## East§ide

Donutz said:


> That's because more people walk to work more often. A per capita comparison would be more accurate.
> 
> As to the insults, when you make a statement on the forum, no-one is obligated to agree with you. I think it was a dumb statement as well. I'd probably phrase it a little better...  But yeah people know their limitations and don't need helmets just like they know their liquor capacity and don't need to take a taxi.


thanks Donutz, thats basically what I was trying to say. Wearing a helmet is definitely a personal decision, even though I honestly can't figure out how someone could justify not wearing one when it could be the difference between life and death, but I just thought that was one of the most idiotic statements I'd ever read and is the exact kind of thing that temps Karma to prove you wrong.

I was just at a ladies house measuring her kitchen, and as a rule, I always try to connect with them on a personal level. They're a skiing family, but theyre also a nurse and Dr respectively..one of their best friends came in in Friday after a terrible ski accident..had he not had his helmet on, he would probably be brain dead. He is a double black level skiier, and yet he had emergency surgery to fix his collapsed lung and broken back and spine..he has 2 18" rods going down his back right now.

It doesn't matter how good you are, mistakes happen. Personally, at 27, I have too much responsibility and too many people who care about me to take that risk.


----------



## MarshallV82

You've called out someone on each page of this thread.. Helmet nazis just get old! I too have been skiing/skateboarding and riding over twenty years. I just started wearing a helmet a few years ago when they got popular. I still ride without them from time to time when it's a nice spring day and just casually ride groomers with the girlfriend. I won't be surprised when insurance companies start making resorts make helmets mandatory or give them a discount if they do.

Worst thing I've had happen was a broken femur while skiing and and broken ribs/dislocated elbow while riding. Skateboarding was the worst for head injuries. Nobody wore a helmet back when I was into that. Making beginners/tourists stay the fuck off terrian they cant handle and making them learn and follow the skiers code would help curb injuries more than PPE. Kids in the future are going to have to suit up like Ironman to be allowed to have fun.


----------



## East§ide

MarshallV82 said:


> *You've called out someone on each page of this thread.. Helmet nazis just get old!* I too have been skiing/skateboarding and riding over twenty years. I just started wearing a helmet a few years ago when they got popular. I still ride without them from time to time when it's a nice spring day and just casually ride groomers with the girlfriend. I won't be surprised when insurance companies start making resorts make helmets mandatory or give them a discount if they do.
> 
> Worst thing I've had happen was a broken femur while skiing and and broken ribs/dislocated elbow while riding. Skateboarding was the worst for head injuries. Nobody wore a helmet back when I was into that. Making beginners/tourists stay the fuck off terrian they cant handle and making them learn and follow the skiers code would help curb injuries more than PPE. Kids in the future are going to have to suit up like Ironman to be allowed to have fun.


im not a helmet nazi.. I dont give a flying fuck if you become a drooling vegetable..ill bet if you did (or anyone else did ) your family would be wishing you wore a fucking helmet so that they wouldnt be wiping spittle off of your chin, pushing you around in a wheelchair or feeding you baby food. Again, let me make it clear..*i dont care if you wear a helmet, thats your decision* but the moronic fucking comments in this thread about why people don't wear them makes me wonder if they haven't already hit their heads too many times. 

"im know my limits"
"im just cruising"
"shouldnt have been on that terrain"

guess what? youre not a professional rider, and you're certainly not infallible..how about rather than make idiotic reasons, you just say "i dont want to wear a helmet despite the fact that I know the risks inherent with high speed head injuries"?

EVERYONE makes mistakes ... Caleb Moore, Shaun White, Sarah Burke... theyre all much better at their sport than you. I'll bet Shaun White doesn't get into a halfpipe without a helmet on..and Ill also bet he knows his limitations. its a stupid fucking argument and youre just asking for karma to teach you a lesson.

so, in conclusion, suck my helmet nazi nuts


and in case any of you missed it..this was Liam Neeson's wife Natasha Richardson

"On 16 March 2009, Richardson sustained a head injury when she fell while taking a beginner skiing lesson at the Mont Tremblant Resort in Quebec, Canada about 80 miles (130 km) from Montreal. The injury was followed by a lucid interval, when Richardson seemed to be fine and was able to talk and act normally. Paramedics and an ambulance which initially responded to the accident were told they were not needed and left.[19] Refusing medical attention twice, she returned to her hotel room and about three hours later was taken to a local hospital in Sainte-Agathe-des-Monts after complaining of a headache.[20][21] She was transferred from there by ambulance to Hôpital du Sacré-Cœur, Montreal, in critical condition and was admitted about seven hours after the fall.[22][23] The following day she was flown to Lenox Hill Hospital in New York City, where she died on 18 March at the age of 45.[1][24] An autopsy conducted by the New York City Medical Examiners Office on 19 March revealed the cause of death was an "epidural hematoma due to blunt impact to the head", and her death was ruled an accident.[20]"


----------



## Blazin' Raisin

I felt the same as you Peaceryder (FREEEEDOM!!!)

Then I caught a toe edge avoiding a bowling pin of a skier, and bounced my forehead of the hard pack. Once my eyesight settled, I saw the indent in the snow from my head, about two inches from a nice big boulder. I bought a helmet ASAP.


----------



## glaucon

Last week at Northstar:

A dad skier was bending down to zip up his toddler daughter's jacket in the base area near a fence. A pair of skis were leaning up against the fence two feet away from dad. Some doofus backed up into the skis, causing them to slide and fall down the fence crashing directly into dad's head. Luckily, he had his helmet on. If he didn't, he'd most certainly have had to go to the hospital for something.

You wear a helmet because doofuses have a knack for being unforeseeable.


----------



## Gdog42

tokyo_dom said:


> Bern Brighton Hard Hat - Women's | evo
> 
> That one seems to fit the 'cute' citeria, but doesnt seem to conform to safety standards (and it costs more than the ones that do  )


Check out these ones on dogfunk.com. If it says "Women's" and "EPS", it should be fine. You can check each helmet's safety certifications in the column on the right side of its page.

http://www.dogfunk.com/helmets#app=brand%3D+price%7E+sortby%7E+cat%7E7+subcat%7E52+group%7E39+offset%7E+on_sale%7E+promo%7E+brand_page%7E&consurf_pgp_app=brand%3D100000335%26sortby%3Dprice_asc%26cat%3D7%26subcat%3D52%26offset%3D0%26on_sale%3D%26page_name%3DHelmets%26brand_name%3DBern%26size_text%3D%26sort_by_text%3DPrice%20Lower%26group%3D39

These are also cheaper than the ones on evo.com, and Dogfunk has a much better lifetime return policy. If she does get one and it doesn't fit, you can exchange it for free. If you need a refund, play it nice and they'll always give you the return label for free. 

They also have a load of other brands to choose from.


----------



## Donutz

East§ide said:


> im not a helmet nazi.. I dont give a flying fuck if you become a drooling vegetable..


I'm going to second this. I fully believe in personal freedoms and I will support your freedom to be a christian fundamentalist just as strongly as I'll support your freedom to be a trasnvestite lesbian transexual alternative lifestylist. But that doesn't mean I have to agree with your personal choice. And if you voice your opinion, I have a right to voice mine. Which may or may not include telling you I thnk you're a moron.

There's a huge difference, both morally and otherwise, between trying to _persuade_ someone to a point of view and trying to shove it down their throat. It can be hard to tell which it is sometimes when you have a personal stake in the question though.


----------



## Gdog42

As for accident stories...
My sister's fiancé (<hey that's cool- the accent was automatic!) told me about his friend who went skiing several years ago wearing only a beanie. He fell on a beginner hill, and during the moment he was on the ground a skier sliced over his head and cut it pretty deep. 

After a fair amount of stitching later he turned out to be ok, but man that was just nasty! 

This was back when I was learning and him and my sister were visiting us for crizmas break. My dad, being the money-saving man he was, got me one of these stupid things to wear:









I was about to go snowboarding one day without it and he told me this story of his friend, so I wore it. 

It looked like a bowling ball. It cramped my ears. It was terrible.:dizzy: But it saved my ass later on! (I've still been needing to sell it since I've had my REAL snowboarding helmet, which is the most awesome thing I've ever worn on my head!)

It's in new condition still if anyone's interested... if anyone is I'll take some pictures.


----------



## briancgrs

I never wore one for 8 years of riding. Hit a 20 footer at bachelor earlier this year and caught my heel edge landing and slammed my head. Rattled me pretty good. Went and bought a helmet, forgot it was on after ten minutes. So now I'm wondering why I haven't had one since the day I started...


----------



## KIRKRIDER

I was riding really mellow woods saturday, following my son ( I let him go ahead so I can see what he's doing and where he goes) he's 13 and learning. 
I ducked a branch but didn't see the other one behind it, a broken stump that smacked my helmet protected forehead. It was a good hit. Without helmet I would have had stitches for sure. I was not going fast.


----------



## East§ide

Haha Donutz, that's what they don't get.. I have no vested stake in their life, but the stupid reasonings just make me want to face palm all day. No one is perfect, conditions are rarely perfect, and aside from the occasional assclown chiming in about how they never fall or they haven't work one in X amount of years and have been fine, there's 20+ pages of new to experienced riders telling stories about how their helmet saved their day,season or life. 

I didn't think helmets were cool at first.. I didn't want to wear one so badly. Then, one day I was calmly cruising down a mellow blue trail with some friends and looked back to see where they were and lost my edge.. I fly backwards about 10 feet downhill and smack my head pretty good.. Seeing stars, I got up, rode to the lodge and bought a helmet.. And then looked around and realized I was in the majority with the helmet on


----------



## mosf88

I am 45 and never wore a helmet since I started skiing in the late 80s, through transition to snowboarding last year.... until a couple of things happened this season.

- Ultra icy conditions early this season and I kept catching edges like crazy. Several slams backwards into the ground while my kids were around and I was 3 hours from home really started me thinking.

- Doing much more aggressive runs and seeing the effects of higher speed and greater angles got me thinking some more...

- Then my son and I decided to try park. That was it - I bought a helmet first and never looked back. I have a Red Trace, its comfortable both in feel and temperature regulation. 

Now I can do whatever and not have to think about it. I just put it on and keep it on and I made peace with that. Partly at my age there are bigger things to be worried about... I know people fighting cancer, raising disabled kids, unable to find work, etc, etc...how can I get worked up about a helmet?

My kids need me around for a long time so that is a big factor for me....but otherwise I think its pretty cool to be riding at my age, especially in the park with the teens and 20'somethings, and I would hate to lose that.


----------



## ShadowCloud04

I always where mine park or not. It makes me feel comfortable going outside of my normal range of things I try. Now when not hitting park you may think what can happen well this year my 3 friends and I went on a boarding trip. 3 of us hit park and the other guy would just cruise and bomb a couple hills. He was pretty experienced with handling speed, but one time he just caught an edge and had to go to the hospital. He had broken his collar bone and gotten a concussion. Ya the collar bone thing would of happened but if he had worn a helmet then when the ski patrol asked him where he lived he would probably actually be able to answer. But overall it's a choice.


----------



## behi

Snowolf said:


> Lastly, don`t kid yourself about helmets. Too many people think of these things as some sort of magic talisman that makes you invincible and as a bonus wards off evil. Most helmets are rated for under 15 MPH and an impact more than that makes the helmet increasingly ineffective. If you are riding at 25 MPH, which is really slow for any intermediate rider, and you slam your head to the ice or hit a tree, you are getting a concussion helmet or not.


If you hit a solid object with your head at 35mph, you are likely dead - helmet or not. But, if you crash on an icy slope, the helmet doesn't have to absorb your movement speed, it primarily has to absorb the fall component. I.e. if your head falls 2m (you topple over), it accelerates to 14mph.


> The concussion is caused by the sudden stop and the brain slamming into the skull. This still happens with a helmet.


Not really. The helmet is designed to cushion the 'sudden stop' - make it not so sudden - and absorb impact energy. 

Excerpt from an old Ski Canada Magazine article, "The Science Behind Helmets":
_
An insight as to why this study found a difference in patterns of death as a function of helmet utilization can be found in the following study. A simulation using a 50th percentile male anthropometric device (Scher, Richards and Carhart, 2005) was done of a snowboarder going 30 kph, catching an edge and falling headfirst onto soft snow, icy snow and a fixed object (a 28-cm upright wooden post). This simulation was done to assess the effect of wearing a helmet or not under the three different impact conditions. The helmet in question met the requirements of ASTM F2040. [...] This study found that if the impact is onto a soft-snow surface, both the measured g-loads (under 100 g) and the computed HIC values (less than 220) are well within acceptable limits regardless of whether or not a helmet is used. When the impact was onto simulated hard, icy snow, the helmet reduced the average measured g-load from 329 to 162, and the HIC value from 2,235 to 965. When the impact was against the fixed object, the helmet reduced the values from 696 to 333, and the HIC from 12,185 to 3,299.

The study concluded that under the circumstances of impact with soft snow, the use or non-use of the helmet had no significant effect. In the matter of the impact with a solid fixed object resembling a tree, while the use of a helmet was associated with a significant reduction in both the g-load and the HIC, the likely outcome remained that of a fatal injury— with or without the use of a helmet. *With an impact on icy snow, the use of a helmet could be the difference between a significant head injury (possibly life-threatening) and a minor head injury.* _

There is a huge difference between helmets, even if they are certified. The standards allow something like 250g - 300g deceleration. Above 100g, chances are you will get a concussion. Above 300g, chances are you will have fractured head.

There is a large number number of studies that show that helmets do reduce head injuries for snowboarders. A lot of people seem to think they will perform miracles - which they clearly don't.

While I do wear a helmet for boarding (I've hit my head a few times in soft snow, fortunately never on hard pack - knock on wood), I don't use a bicycle helmet. IMHO, there isn't enough evidence that bicycle helmets do something useful.


----------



## wernersl

Hey some helmets on some people (myself included) look gay as fuck! Cant stand the look of that piece of shit on my head. Makes my head sweat and its harder to hear what is around me. 

BUT...Ive gotten so used to it that I would feel really weird without it. In fact...takes me longer to get the beanie/goggle combo comfortable for the ride...only to have it blow off my head screaming down a double black. I'm done with NOT wearing helmets.

I'm a bigger dude so the thing really does look like shit on my head, but I don't really care. What it does do is deflect branches, other peoples boards if I eat shit in front of them or get taken out by an elitist skier. 

So...I will always have mine, and as bad as it looks, have never heard anyone say...whoa...that looks gay as fuck. Then again I cant really hear outta that thing very well. Enjoy.


----------



## wernersl

Snowolf said:


> So many insults....why?
> 
> Here is the deal with this continual argument. The problem here is the preaching and the name calling. Some in the pro helmet camp take on an almost evangelic fervor about it that is just going to piss people off. It`s like the new born again Christian or new non smoker who seems to be on some mission to save the world. In every one of these threads that pop up over and over and over again, year after year after year after year, its always the same. The pro helmet evangilist resorts to calling everyone else dumb, stupid, idiot, moron, etc. This is NOT how you are going to win anyone over. In all of these arguments over the years I have not seen a case wear a non helmet person has called the helmet advocate names. This is just like the God freaks who get nasty and mean when the atheist does not agree with them on the subject of religion.
> 
> Being in the profession of snowsports, we talk a lot about this issue and quite frankly, almost everyone is sick and tired of the helmet preachers who really need to get over themselves and just stop it; its fucking annoying as hell. I don't think there is a single person out there that doesn't get the benefits of helmet use but this constant barrage of helmet, helmet, helmet, helmet gets fucking old. What the helmet evangelist doesn't seem to get is that by proselytizing non stop, they are actually creating Resistance to helmet use in the same way that in many cases, nagging a smoker to quit will actually make them more determined not to.
> 
> Think about it. Look at this thread as an example. In the 5 years of admining this forum, I cannot remember ever seeing a thread started by someone who doesn't wear a helmet, preaching the evils of helmet use or making fun of people wearing helmets. On the other hand we have on average 2 or 3 of these "wear your helmet" threads a year. After awhile it just gets fucking old.
> 
> What also gets old is the repeated anecdotal stories about how a helmet saved this person`s life or prevented that person`s concussion or death. Fact of the matter is that even without helmet use, skiing and riding is actually statistically a very safe sport. You are hundreds of times more likely to receive a head injury in the car crash on the way to or from the mountain.
> 
> If a person does not want to wear a helmet, it is no one else`s business and it is not anyone`s place to be preaching about it. As an adult, capable of my own risk assessment I can determine for myself whether I choose to wear or not wear a helmet and I don't need some do gooder acting like my personal nanny. Sorry, but the proselytizing is a form of butting into other people`s business and it is both intrusive and rude.
> 
> That is why people get testy over this constant preaching. We all get it. We all "should" be wearing a helmet. If we are not already doing so it is not because the helmet evangelists hasn't spread the good news; its because we made a choice not to and the preaching is only going to turn people off.
> 
> I wear a helmet sometimes bu to be honest, I don't more than I do. Have I taken some nasty falls? Yep. Have I hit my head? Very rarely and in fact I hit my head way more with a helmet on. Well, I used to until I switched to the lighter weight, lower profile Capix and Sandbox helmet. I find the standard egg head helmets have a big enough profile that I hit more shit with my head because of the helmet.
> 
> Lastly, don`t kid yourself about helmets. Too many people think of these things as some sort of magic talisman that makes you invincible and as a bonus wards off evil. Most helmets are rated for under 15 MPH and an impact more than that makes the helmet increasingly ineffective. If you are riding at 25 MPH, which is really slow for any intermediate rider, and you slam your head to the ice or hit a tree, you are getting a concussion helmet or not. The concussion is caused by the sudden stop and the brain slamming into the skull. This still happens with a helmet. The helmet is designed to protect the surface of the head from impact and they are very effective for that. Again, not discouraging helmet use, just reminding folks of facts. Too often I see people ride irresponsibly because the helmet gives them an inflated sense of security and as a result, do things that puts them in needless peril and it is because they are wearing the helmet that think they can do anything without consequence.
> 
> At any rate, carry on but lets cut the name calling and keep it civil.


Yes the disrespect and name calling here is uncalled for and bullshit. As for people preaching...they can fuck off. As I have said...I wear one. Looks gay, but who cares. Do I think you or anyone else should? Dont really care. Unless of course you are part of my family, then I might have something to say about it. Otherwise...rather you wouldnt because watching people on the board of shame gives me a chuckle. No matter the injury, and I laugh a little because, hey, it wasnt me this time!

For the stories...dont care either way. You know, some people even make those up. Hell even statistics are 46% bullshit, but sometimes a good reference point.


----------



## Vinh

behi said:


> While I do wear a helmet for boarding (I've hit my head a few times in soft snow, fortunately never on hard pack - knock on wood), I don't use a bicycle helmet. IMHO, there isn't enough evidence that bicycle helmets do something useful.


There might not be enough evidence, but I saw this while I was watching Discovery channel about James Cracknell, who got fucked up while doing an attempt do cycle, swim, run and row from LA to NY in 16 days. This is from wikipedia:

"On 20 July 2010, Cracknell was hit from behind by a petrol tanker whilst cycling during an attempt to cycle, row, run and swim from Los Angeles to New York within 16 days. The accident happened at around 5.30am on a quiet stretch of road outside Winslow, Arizona. He has attributed his survival to the fact he was wearing a cycle helmet at the time, which was "shorn in two". In the crash he suffered a contre-coup injury to the frontal lobes of his brain. He was "fully kitted out" by sponsors including the manufacturer of his helmet. He is now back at home with his family, although his recovery may never be complete. In 2012 Cracknell and his wife wrote Touching Distance about his life before and after his brain injury, which has left him with epilepsy and a changed personality (including a short temper)."

I don't use a cycling helmet myself, probably because I got my own car and almost never take a bike out anymore. But even if so, I wouldn't really use a helmet anyway. For snowboarding I do use my helmet, because I feel a bit safer with it and it has speakers in it for music hehe.


----------



## glaucon

Snowolf said:


> Fact of the matter is that even without helmet use, skiing and riding is actually statistically a very safe sport. You are hundreds of times more likely to receive a head injury in the car crash on the way to or from the mountain.


Snowolf, I think your basic point is that people shouldn't be mean, and I agree with that. But by the same token, the rhetoric on both sides should be fair. The part of your post quoted above I think is irresponsible. It is a completely unsubstantiated claim and has no basis in fact (unless you want to point to surveys or actual facts). Perhaps you are looking at statistics of overall numbers of accidents instead of per capita stats, as obviously a greater number of people drive cars per day than snowboard.

I don't have statistics, but speaking from my own experience, I know that head injuries resulting from snowboarding accidents are many times more likely than driving. I only started wearing a helmet about 8 years ago, less than half of my riding career. When I rode without a helmet, I routinely hit my head on the ground (most of my time was on the ice coast). I never got a concussion (that I know of), but I would often get insane headaches. This would happen at least once every 5 days of riding. My day was over when the headache became unbearable. My brother did get a concussion while snowboarding (along with a broken collar bone and shoulder), but he was never in a car accident. I also never hit my head when I was driving in nearly 20 years nor do I think it very likely.

I've seen this "driving is more dangerous than snowboarding" argument on here a number of times. I really think we need to dispel ourselves of this ridiculous notion in order to more fairly assess the actual risks. It's just not true.

But as to the merits of this thread, as with all internet bickering, one side inflates the arguments of the other, the other responds with insults and then everyone is making comparisons to Hitler and born again christians. I've seen it a hundred times.

From what I can tell, the two sides essentially come down to:

*Anti-helmets*: Adults are generally smart enough to appreciate the risks in the things they do and have the right to deny reasonable precautions despite their proven efficacy.

*Pro-helmets*: Helmets are demonstrably safer, non-obtrusive, and give me the warm fuzzies. I don't understand why someone would purposely put themselves at additional risk by not wearing one, but at the same time I desperately want everyone on the mountain to wear one because then I'll feel like less of a dork.

Maybe we can all agree on this, or something close, and move on.


----------



## Donutz

glaucon said:


> everyone is making comparisons to Hitler and born again christians. I've seen it a hundred times.


And the Hitler Proposition says that once Hitler is invoked in any debate, no further progress is possible.


----------



## Donutz

glaucon said:


> *Pro-helmets*: Helmets are demonstrably safer, non-obtrusive, and give me the warm fuzzies. I don't understand why someone would purposely put themselves at additional risk by not wearing one, but at the same time I desperately want everyone on the mountain to wear one because then I'll feel like less of a dork.


Fail. First you accuse other people of creating straw persons, then you create one. As eastside pointed out, and as I pointed out, we don't give a flying fuck whether or not someone wears a helmet. We also don't care if they do or do not wear gloves, a tutu, a yeti costume, bat wings, or someone else's skin. The argument comes from someone making a statement or statements that we consider to be either untrue, illogical, a non sequitur, or downright moronic. Whether the argument is about helmets, weather, politics, religion, bindings, cars, pets, or girlfriends, no one has a right to expect to make a statement and demand that no one else respond. This is a _discussion_ forum, not a _speech_ forum.

You called snowolf on the car injury statement not because you are religious about statistics, or because you are religious about cars, or a recently converted car faithful -- you called it because he made a statement that you considered to be wrong and a poor reason for taking a particular stance. If you're going to play the objective outsider, then please extend everyone the same courtesy.

An objective version of the above would have read something like "*Pro-helmets*: If you want to not wear a helmet that's your right, but if you're going to try to rationalize the decision with nonsense arguments, I'm going to call you on it."


----------



## glaucon

Donutz said:


> Fail. First you accuse other people of creating straw persons, then you create one. As eastside pointed out, and as I pointed out, we don't give a flying fuck whether or not someone wears a helmet. We also don't care if they do or do not wear gloves, a tutu, a yeti costume, bat wings, or someone else's skin. The argument comes from someone making a statement or statements that we consider to be either untrue, illogical, a non sequitur, or downright moronic. Whether the argument is about helmets, weather, politics, religion, bindings, cars, pets, or girlfriends, no one has a right to expect to make a statement and demand that no one else respond. This is a _discussion_ forum, not a _speech_ forum.
> 
> You called snowolf on the car injury statement not because you are religious about statistics, or because you are religious about cars, or a recently converted car faithful -- you called it because he made a statement that you considered to be wrong and a poor reason for taking a particular stance. If you're going to play the objective outsider, then please extend everyone the same courtesy.


Yeah, you're right. I did mischaracterize the pro-helmets group. I did it that way because I fall into that group and in trying to be fair I was a little self-deprecating and tried to be partially funny, but it didn't come off that way. I agree with everything you say.


----------



## tj_ras

Why can't we be friends
Why can't we be friends
Why can't we be friends
Why can't we be friends

I seen you around for a long long time, ya
I really remembered you when you drink my wine

Why can't we be friends
Why can't we be friends
Why can't we be friends
Why can't we be friends

I seen you walkin' down in Chinatown
I called you but you could not look around

Why can't we be friends
Why can't we be friends
Why can't we be friends
Why can't we be friends

I bring my money to the welfare line
I see you standing in it every time

Why can't we be friends
Why can't we be friends
Why can't we be friends
Why can't we be friends

The color of your skin don't matter to me
As long as we can live in harmony

Why can't we be friends
Why can't we be friends
Why can't we be friends
Why can't we be friends

I'd kinda like to be the President
So I can show you how your money's spent

Why can't we be friends
Why can't we be friends
Why can't we be friends
Why can't we be friends

Sometimes I don't speak right
But yet I know what I'm talking about

Why can't we be friends
Why can't we be friends
Why can't we be friends
Why can't we be friends

I know you're workin' for the CIA
They wouldn't have you in the Ma-fi-a

Why can't we be friends
Why can't we be friends
Why can't we be friends
Why can't we be friends...


----------



## East§ide

Snowolf said:


> So many insults....why?
> 
> Here is the deal with this continual argument. The problem here is the preaching and the name calling. Some in the pro helmet camp take on an almost evangelic fervor about it that is just going to piss people off. It`s like the new born again Christian or new non smoker who seems to be on some mission to save the world. In every one of these threads that pop up over and over and over again, year after year after year after year, its always the same. The pro helmet evangilist resorts to calling everyone else dumb, stupid, idiot, moron, etc. This is NOT how you are going to win anyone over. In all of these arguments over the years I have not seen a case wear a non helmet person has called the helmet advocate names. This is just like the God freaks who get nasty and mean when the atheist does not agree with them on the subject of religion.
> 
> Being in the profession of snowsports, we talk a lot about this issue and quite frankly, almost everyone is sick and tired of the helmet preachers who really need to get over themselves and just stop it; its fucking annoying as hell. I don't think there is a single person out there that doesn't get the benefits of helmet use but this constant barrage of helmet, helmet, helmet, helmet gets fucking old. What the helmet evangelist doesn't seem to get is that by proselytizing non stop, they are actually creating Resistance to helmet use in the same way that in many cases, nagging a smoker to quit will actually make them more determined not to.
> 
> Think about it. Look at this thread as an example. In the 5 years of admining this forum, I cannot remember ever seeing a thread started by someone who doesn't wear a helmet, preaching the evils of helmet use or making fun of people wearing helmets. On the other hand we have on average 2 or 3 of these "wear your helmet" threads a year. After awhile it just gets fucking old.
> 
> What also gets old is the repeated anecdotal stories about how a helmet saved this person`s life or prevented that person`s concussion or death. Fact of the matter is that even without helmet use, skiing and riding is actually statistically a very safe sport. You are hundreds of times more likely to receive a head injury in the car crash on the way to or from the mountain.
> 
> If a person does not want to wear a helmet, it is no one else`s business and it is not anyone`s place to be preaching about it. As an adult, capable of my own risk assessment I can determine for myself whether I choose to wear or not wear a helmet and I don't need some do gooder acting like my personal nanny. Sorry, but the proselytizing is a form of butting into other people`s business and it is both intrusive and rude.
> 
> That is why people get testy over this constant preaching. We all get it. We all "should" be wearing a helmet. If we are not already doing so it is not because the helmet evangelists hasn't spread the good news; its because we made a choice not to and the preaching is only going to turn people off.


In all fairness SnoWolf , I've shown you immense respect I'm every thread in which we've communicated . I think I have every right to call someone out on being idiotic or making an idiotic statement. As I mentioned before, I really don't give a crap one way or the other if someone chooses to wear a helmet.. I'm a 27 year old adult who makes his own decisions and determined that whether I like the look and feel of a helmet or not, I feel that it is a simple and effective way to protect myself against avoidable head injury. If someone doesn't want to wear one, that is their perogative. What bothers me is the nonsensical and frankly idiotic reasonings behind it. To say that you (and I mean you in the general term) are above reproach and know your limits, so you don't need a helmet or any other number of frankly stupid arguments is the issue. As someone who puts alot of time and effort into promoting this sport, it's disappointing to me to hear that you think people who are pro-helmet take on some type of preaching role. Could it be that perhaps we want to set a better example for new riders coming into the sport ? Could it be that we have had enough close calls in our own lives that we feel it is prudent to share that information with others and hopefully they can avoid the same conclusion? Concussions, head injuries, etc. are a serious injury as recent medical studies have shown. Am I a dr or a scientist ? No, but I do understand common sense. I think that calling out someone's argument for or against helmets on the grounds of them making an idiotic statement is something is not only appropriate but necessary. You spend alot of time on this forum correcting misinformation - to say that someone is so good at snowboarding that they're immune to falling on their head is just stupid, and I think most would agree.
Also, as I mentioned, I've shown you a ton of respect and I DO respect you, but you set a precedent for personal attacks in the NS Fiberglass thread that is above and beyond what I've seen you call many people out for. I realize that as a moderator you can generally do what you want and I happen to be okay with that, but I think it's sort of self righteous to tell me that I'm being insulting by calling a duck a duck. I try not to be argumentative or rude without provocation and I don't post unless I feel that I can contribute in some way to the conversation. 
I mean no disrespect by any of this, I just felt that I needed to say this. Not everyone will like what I have to say, but that is what a forum is for - discussion and debate and the sharing or knowledge ( and often misinformation.)

Like I said earlier in the thread and like Donutz agreed, we don't care if you choose to wear a helmet or not, but don't serve up some lame ass reason to everyone on a platter and not expect someone to call it out. I think you'd agree ?

Edit: one last thing , I didn't start this thread nor am I the only one who has tried to explain the benefits of wearing a helmet. I am simply a contributor to a topic that was started by someone else. If you'd like to PM me or talk in some way, ill bet you'd see that we are actually very much alike and on the same page.


----------



## honeycomb

I got my helmet last year, mainly because I wanted speakers in the ear pieces. I hate wearing earbuds and none of them fit my ears good, they're always slipping out. I've been boarding for 15years(damn...I'm getting old  ) and never had any major injuries. Two weeks ago I got a mild concussion trying miller flips on a ~15' solid ice jump. First try went well, almost landed but under-rotated a bit and washed out. Second try I hit it with more speed, too much, threw it late and missed the hand drag completely, overshot the landing, over-rotated and whipped my head onto the ice. What happened after is a long story I might tell some other time, don't really remember any of it but the ski patrol and some locals at the hill filled me in, ended up at a hospital. To keep it short, I was supposed to fly out to St. Louis with my work for a trade show the next day. I missed that flight since I was released an hour before it was taking off, but I was able to fly out the next day and work the trade show. I had a headache for 3-4 days and for a week I was a bit out of it, it felt like I just got off a boat all day, just wobbly and dazed. Without a helmet I'm sure it would have been much worse, I might still be in the hospital.


----------



## Donutz

East§ide said:


> I realize that as a moderator you can generally do what you want and I happen to be okay with that,


wait, i can do what I want???? OK, you are a chocolate bunny!

Just a point of clarification, Snowolf is an admin, although he does jump in when things get nuts. As a moderator I have more of a duty to try and be even-handed and not get involved -- which unfortunately I fail at regularly, being a passionate snowboarder.


----------



## snowklinger

this thread has way too many walls of text to even read.

this is how you do it fuckers:

the other day I was throat fucking this grateful gnargoyle when suddenly I had to go shred. The end.


----------



## East§ide

Donutz said:


> wait, i can do what I want???? OK, you are a chocolate bunny!
> 
> Just a point of clarification, Snowolf is an admin, although he does jump in when things get nuts. As a moderator I have more of a duty to try and be even-handed and not get involved -- which unfortunately I fail at regularly, being a passionate snowboarder.


I'm Jewish and my gf got me chocolate bunnies for Easter since I'm deprived.. They're overrated lol. I'd rather be a box of Russel Stovers or something, if that's cool  

I did mean admin, I'm responding to everything on my iPhone so it's a pain to go back and double check stuff sometimes. I hope you guys can see where I'm coming from though. 

I have and do enjoy being a member of this forum, and I'd like to continue.. I think when anyone feels passionately about something, for better or worse, it can take a personal swing. It isn't always necessary or intended, but still.. It happens. I've learned in 15 years of being on forums not to take the Internet too seriously and to never get butthurt by some nameless person on the other side of a keyboard


----------



## East§ide

Perhaps we ought to take this to PM or email, even phone if you'd prefer . I fully supported your dealing with that troll, and my post above yours in that thread basically echoed your sentiments exactly . The point was simply that as a forum member, it's incredibly difficult to determine what is and isn't appropriate as a response when it seems to change with each thread. I may have gone over the top with ETM, but I honestly feel that if a statement is idiotic, there's no reason not to say so. You're right, calling him an idiot may have been unnecessary, but a duck is a duck and a stupid statement is a stupid statement. I understand that as an admin and someone who has to moderate the forums you deal with a number of different circumstances , but I was and always am simply trying to contribute to a conversation. I don't go out of my way to attack someone, but I will also defend myself and my opinions. Also, I happen to find being called a helmet nazi incredibly offensive. Maybe as much or more so than you may find the word idiot offensive. Again, I don't expect you to, but if you took the time to talk to me personally, you may see that I am just being honest and thoughtful. I play devils advocate to provoke discussion , not argument. Some people take offense to that. That is their issue, not mine. You did ask me to tone down using the word idiot in reference to a person and I did, however I think calling something idiotic is in an entirely different context . I don't want to argue about this anymore or have any bad blood. As I mentioned earlier, I support and respect your opinions and the work you do... I wasn't calling you out because I don't agree, I was just saying that I'm clearly not a troll and that the way that thread ended made it unclear to me what is and isn't acceptable. I apologize if you took that as a personal attack as it wasn't intended as such .

I hope that we can let this argument die and that you and I can move forward from this. I enjoy this forum immensely and have learned alot from it, mostly from your posts. 

(Btw, I'm Jewish and while the word nazi may not offend you , it does offend me to be caled a helmet nazi.. Rather than report the post and complain, I simply take it and spin it. We all handle things differently.)


----------



## poutanen

There's only ONE way to settle this debate...



























Sorry it's a repost:


----------



## EastCoastChris

I saw somewhere (Scientific American...NIH some other laymen's publication? ) that a meta study was recently published examining whether increased helmet use had any correlation with or causal relationship to increased injury rates related to increased risk taking behaviors. The meta study concluded no relationship. 

I didn't read any more than the article on the abstract. Nor can I tell you about any of the populations studied in the individual studies reviewed. I just know I read it somewheres. I am in health stats but not public health or populational control. So this isnt exactly my bag. But I'm satisfied that research has been done on this issue. And I'm fairly confident that risks of helmets are negligable at best.


----------



## East§ide

Snowolf, I appreciate your reply and would rather take this to PMs. There's things I'd like to say privately and I think that at this point your point and mine have both been made. Let me know if you're okay with this.


----------



## snowklinger

Snowolf said:


> Wait! Where is her helmet????


i has a little one she can use.


----------



## behi

EastCoastChris said:


> I saw somewhere (Scientific American...NIH some other laymen's publication? ) that a meta study was recently published examining whether increased helmet use had any correlation with or causal relationship to increased injury rates related to increased risk taking behaviors. The meta study concluded no relationship.


I certainly ride faster/more aggressive on hard pack/icy stuff since using a helmet. If it increases risk is debatable, since being more relaxed/not tensing up in shitty conditions improves control.


----------



## ItchEtrigR

In Norway we are pretty good at wearing helmets, old and young, experienced and novice, one plank or two, from the park kid landing 25'ers with ease to the dad on the bunny hill putting his 4yr old on a pair of skis or snowboard for the first time.

we get a few die hards, 60yr old on their telemarks with pilot sun glasses and Norwegian wool knit sweater on to the once almost pro mother of three bombing the mountain on her slaloms as many times as she can before her Easter holiday is over.

Point is helmets are cool, and if your not wearing one then you either know your craft very well and are taking a calculated risk or think your better then you actually are and are horrible at counting the odds that are stacked against you...


----------



## East§ide

Snowolf said:


> Eastside,
> 
> You and anyone on this forum can PM anytime you want about anything.
> 
> I am not picking on you here per se but I was trying to deal with this on the road with an Iphone and just didn't have the ability to deal with all of your points. I am address this publicly because it is at the crux of my extreme frustration with these helmet threads and I will go into that next post.
> 
> 
> 
> For really not giving a crap, you sure are passionate about this. You have a "right" to have an opinion and to voice it yes. It has never been about your opinion, it has been about the delivery and you do NOT have a right to use any tone you feel like. That has been what I have been trying to tell everyone involved. This is not open for debate any longer. No one is going to be allowed to call people stupid, idiot or any other name simply because they hold an opinion that you fell is stupid or idiotic. You seem like a pretty sharp guy, you should have no problem finding a way to get your point across without being a dick to people. This is no longer just a friendly request nor is it meant to single you out this goes for everyone. No more insults and name calling period.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You need to learn way more about me and what I have said even in this thread. In the next post, I will direct you and others to specific posts wear I have advocated proper fitting helmets. You are also grossly misrepresenting what I have said here. I have clearly in multiple helmet threads thread over six years clearly stated that there is a HUGE difference between a helmet proponent and a" helmet nazi" or "helmet evangelical". There is a HUGE difference between offering up advice and preaching. I know you are smart enough to understand this. You are deliberately obfuscating here to bolster your argument and I am not buying it. And for your information, when I coach kids, I wear my helmet to "set a good example" even though we are not required to by our resort. Again, you need to get to know someone before jumping to conclusions.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Again though, It isn't the content, its your delivery that is the problem. It is perfectly acceptable to "correct misinformation" and I do it all of the time but there is a huge difference between this and preaching or nagging. Put the information out there, when able back it up with some sources (very helpful but not always necessary) and leave it at that. I know you have heard the saying that you can lead a horse to water but you cant make him drink. Same thing here. You did your "duty", you put the information out, now leave it be and quit preaching. That is all people are saying. The problem is and it was said in another thread, when you keep on, it comes across as having to "win" the argument at all costs.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Don`t worry, you are in no danger of anything yet. I can even accept that you don't mean to disrespect people but you have to understand that it does not come across that way when you call someone an idiot. No one is going to take kindly to that. It starts fights and once you say that, nothing you say after will even register with the person so you sabotaged everything you claim to be wanting to accomplished but your delivery.
> 
> Like I said, you are still cool with the admin and mod team right now. You are just kind of the catalyst that has brought this entire helmet issue back to the forefront again and we are looking at making some changes about how these topics will be handled in the future because in six years, every single helmet thread has ended in a shit show. So again, you are not being singled out even though it seems like it. Plenty before you have had issues and we have banned many people for going apeshit over helmets.
> 
> Feel free to PM with any questions. Not pissed at you in any way, just exasperated with this entire subject.


Thanks SnoWolf, I understand your points and will keep them in mind for future reference. I guess too many years on forums has made me respond in certain ways that I shouldn't. 

Here's my response to this thread :

Hey guys I wear a helmet because I hit my head a few times and remembered the story about Liam Neeson's wife dying and figured it wasn't worth the risk. It doesn't bother me much to wear it once I got used to it. To each their own.


----------



## EastCoastChris

Driving is not more dangerous than snow sports and the "by particpant" metric is a rediculous metric. You may ride 5-10 miles a day max. 90 minutes of actually standing on the base if the board maybe? Most participants do that 3 times a year or so. 

Most of us drive 30,000 miles a year.
Its the reason you always see the traffic fatality number drop when gas prices spike. Not a decrease in total driver but a decrease in miles driven.


----------



## poutanen

EastCoastChris said:


> You may ride 5-10 miles a day max.


:blink:

Even when I used to board in Ontario all the time I was still averaging 40+ km a day. My best day so far is 82 km last spring. I would say my MINIMUM day is 25 km!!!

Anyway, this thread needs to take another direction. Somebody post some yoga pants please I'm running out of material!


----------



## kaner3sixteen

I'd like to hear from a expert on this


----------



## CassMT

next year,helmet...had a few close calls, and actually a few key posts on this thread helped me decide, mostly for fam, obligations, etc..not fear


----------



## The Jake

Snowolf said:


> I think you might want to take note of something here. In the six years of moderating and admining this site, I have seen these same threads crop up year after year and we usually see 2 to 3 a year and in EVERY case they have had to be locked because it is ALWAYS the helmet evangelicals who attack and insult anyone who dares express an opinion that as an adult they have the right to choose to not wear a helmet. These people just cant stand it and ALWAYS attack. All I have EVER seen from the opposition is the desire to just be left the hell alone and yes they have called these people helmet nazis and I happen to agree. Some of these people get so damn bent out of shape because they cant convert someone they become fascist in nature.
> 
> When they cant convert by insults and attacks and brow beating, their next step is ALWAYS to try to get laws passed that force people to comply with their opinions. If that isn't Fascist and Nazism I don't know what is. Then when called Fascists and Nazis, these people freak out and play the victim role.
> 
> Sorry if I lack the patience for this shit. After dealing with it over and over and over in every damn helmet thread, I am sick of it. Not to mention that a real personal pet peeve of mine is people who can`t mind their own business and control freaks. I loath busy bodies and control freaks with a passion This entire country would be so much better off if people would just mind their own business and stop trying to control other people. At least a large part of this fanatical fervor around helmet use is based solely of control freaks trying to satisfy their pathological need to control other people. I hate it and I hate these people.
> 
> This thread went to absolute shit once again at post 157:
> 
> Post 157
> 
> This is what I have been talking to Mr. Eastside about. Why people cant express their opinion and he is by no means an exception here, without this kind of vitriol escapes me. They always say the same thing too, "I don't really care what you do, I am just pointing out how stupid your are". Really? If a person doesn't care, then why the angry tone? Why the need to control that other person?
> 
> Anyway, that is why I am so done with these threads and I may in fact takes Marshal`s suggestion and close this one too. We are going to have a talk in the admin lounge about this and maybe put a moratorium on these helmet discussion because not one has ever had a good ending. We got rid of the politics section for this reason.
> 
> In the time being, people need to understand a few things. There has literally never been one single person posting an opinion that helmets should not be worn. Almost everyone alive understands the benefits of wearing one and no one really needs convincing. Even those who either always wear a helmet or selectively wear one are all sick and tired of the damn preaching. Just shut up already, we get it, just stop and mind your own damn business. As I said earlier, all this incessant preaching does for some is galvanize their resolve to never wear one because they don't want to give into a bunch of damn control freaks. We are at a point where the preaching is having the opposite effect.
> 
> So, new rule goes into effect right now. talk helmets all you want, compare brands, review them, whatever. If someone asks whether they should or shouldn't wear a helmet, give them your advice but do it politely and not with the attitude. If a counter opinion is given, leave it alone; its not your place to attack or counter an opinion given. Now, from here on out any more of this insulting, calling people idiots or stupid will get this thread locked and the user will be given a 30 day ban. I am done with reading all of these insults and personal attacks.


The reason some people (myself included) want a law passed regarding helmet use is due to the social implications of head injuries, not the desire to "control" people. That is absurd paranoia.

Let's say Snowboarder X is out on the mountain one day, falls, and sustains a head injury. Let's say it's a traumatic brain injury and that it will limit Mr. X in terms of his cognitive ability for the rest of his life. His health insurance company or his parents' health insurance company is only going to pay a portion of what he needs in terms of care. It is not going to pay benefits to cover 24 hour care, vocational rehabilitation, physical rehabilitation, speech pathology, etc.

To the extent that the insurance company now has humongous bills to cover for Mr. X, how do you think they do it? They pass the cost of it onto everyone else that has the same health insurance. When you require THAT much medical care, we, as a society, pay for each other in the form of higher premiums. The effect may be miniscule if you look at it on a small scale, but if you aggregate all of the head injuries and the cost of care associated with those injuries over a lifetime and then compare that with baseline health insurance premium prices, you'd see a substantial difference. 

The best analogy, really, is seatbelts in a motor vehicle. It wasn't always legally required to wear your seatbelt. Some people wore them, some people didn't. Most didn't, in fact. And what happened? Over time, car insurance companies studied accidents, injuries and fatalities and found that those who weren't wearing seatbelts suffered far worse injuries. So they worked in tandem with the car manufacturers, the federal government and state government to ensure that seatbelts would be required. The result wasn't an across-the-board elimination on injuries or fatalities, of course. But the rate of driver-hours to severe injuries is much lower in the seatbelt era. Fewer people get hurt, they get hurt less severely and our car insurance premiums aren't as high as they would be if seatbelts weren't legally required.

That's fascism? That's naziism? No sir, it's not. That's called progress.


----------



## KIRKRIDER

EastCoastChris said:


> Driving is not more dangerous than snow sports and the "by particpant" metric is a rediculous metric. You may ride 5-10 miles a day max. 90 minutes of actually standing on the base if the board maybe? Most participants do that 3 times a year or so.
> 
> Most of us drive 30,000 miles a year.
> Its the reason you always see the traffic fatality number drop when gas prices spike. Not a decrease in total driver but a decrease in miles driven.


You should compare with driving a bike, where you are as exposed as riding a board. Not in a car. Would you ride a bike without helmet?


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## The Jake

When I was a kid, nobody wore a helmet to ride bicycles unless it was a special needs kid. And we did all kinds of dangerous sh*t on bicycles and fell off many, many times.

Today, you almost never see a kid riding a bike without a helmet? Why?

Two reasons: 

1) The law. Some states and municipalities require that bicycle riders under a certain age wear a helmet. And it's not because they want to "control" people. It's because they want to prevent traumatic brain injuries.

2) People are smarter and more conscientious today than they were 20 years ago and helmet technology has progressed to the point where helmets are light, durable, comfortable and extremely effective.


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## CassMT

i think that is why its so much easier for kids today to accept helmets for everything...biking, riding, skating, walking down the street

i've got a skate helmet, but i hate it, never wear it...*not advocating anything* probably a good idea for skating...i just think that regardless any arguments for social good, etc..it still comes down to a choice


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## KIRKRIDER

I propose a simple effective test:

TEST 1 - Put a helmet on, slam your head on the nearest wall as hard as you can. Write down the results.

TEST 2 - Remove the helmet and slam your head on the nearest wall as har as you can. Write down the results.

Compare the results and damage. Decide which option is better. :blink:


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## CassMT

took 

test

rezultsss

inconclusiveve


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## The Jake

It's definitely a choice and I'm cool with it being a choice while it remains un-regulated.

One day, however, it may become regulated. The health insurance companies might say "enough is enough," and lobby Congress and state legislatures and push to get mandatory helmet laws passed in the states that have ski resorts. And if that day comes, it's not a loss of "freedom" or "control" by the government. A loss of freedom would be if the government kidnapped you, transported you to a prison camp and made you break bricks 20 hours a day, subsisting on food and rice mush. See, e.g., North Korea. 

I think people get a bit melodramatic when it comes to the erosion of our "freedoms." Freedom doesn't mean the ability to do anything you want, damn all the consequences to yourself and to others. Freedom is about doing what makes you happy, but while also being responsible to yourself and to others.


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## KIRKRIDER

CassMT said:


> took
> 
> test
> 
> rezultsss
> 
> inconclusiveve




Repeat the test until results are conclusive or enlightenment is achieved.
:dizzy::laugh:


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## KIRKRIDER

Snowolf said:


> I completely disagree. I am a commercial driver and I typically put 1500-2000 miles in a week on the company vehicle. This does not include the miles I put on my personal vehicle. Combined, I am racking up about 150K a year so I know something about highway statistics.
> 
> In just your drive to the hill ( not talking entire yearly driving ) you are far more POTENTIALLY likely to be involved in an accident that injures you. I am talking about POTENTIALLY. There are so many factors present that if the slightest thing goes wrong at the precise right time, bam! You're involved in the accident. On the hill, you are not passing oncoming skiers at 60 MPH that weigh 1,500 pounds. You are not typically operating around people skiing and texting like you are on the road. The potential is so much greater driving even if you drive the same distance as you ride in a day.
> 
> It's just like the person who is shitting their pants in fear of flying. Same thing, they are in far greater danger driving to the airport than on the plane yet you can't convince them of that. No matter how you look at statistics, the fact remains that you are in fact in more potential danger driving to the mountain than you are once you get there.
> 
> I am not saying the driving is that dangerous either. In 23 years of commercial driving with well over 2 million logged miles. I have only been involved in two minor fender benders neither my fault involving drunk people swerving into me. But the potential exists at all times and every oncoming vehicle on a 2 lane highway could be "the one". What I am saying is that the potential on the mountain is so ridiculously low that in essence, people are worrying themselves sick over something that barely exists. The risks certainly do not justify legislative action.


IMO you should compare with driving say...a dirt bike, where you're exposed completely. Not a truck or a car where you already are inside a...metal helmet


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## East§ide

Welp, at least the focus is off of me 

But honestly, now this is becoming political. In NJ it's state law for children under 18 to wear helmets on the mountain. I haven't heard any sort of backlash that has come from this. Another aspect to consider is that requiring helmets may lower insurance premiums for the resorts themselves allowing them to operate with less liability and cost. I don't know if its true or not, but that's another angle to look at.

I do think it should be personal choice for adults who are smart enough and considered mature enough to make their own decisions, but I also see nothing wrong with requiring children to wear helmets and hopefully setting a precedent where that will become the norm for them once they turn 18.


On a smaller side note, it'd be nice if we could stop referring to it as nazism .. Nazism exterminated 6 million Jews along with millions of others and really shouldn't be used to describe something like this. Just my opinion of course !


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## KIRKRIDER

Snowolf said:


> Driving includes motorcycles. Doesn't matter whether you are in a "metal helmet", two vehicles colliding at highway speeds, you are getting injured. Not specifically talking about getting a head injury in a car crash, talking about statistical odds of being injured in a car accident.
> 
> My only point is regarding legislating helmet use to address a problem that statistically does not exist. This energy and government money could be put to more productive use.


My point was about exposure and protection... when riding we are exposed as bikers on a dirt road... we have safety measures and technology, why not use it?


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## MarshallV82

KIRKRIDER said:


> IMO you should compare with driving say...a dirt bike, where you're exposed completely. Not a truck or a car where you already are inside a...metal helmet


Point is.. 

Recreational activities are at the bottom of the list for a Nation to worry about. With the medical issues and injuries sustained in the US, recreational sports hardly contribute.

I wear a Helmet 80% of the time, I like the fact it's my choice and I can go riding without getting hassled about it.

Nothing pisses me off more than the seatbelt law. The statistics on those are also stupid. If you say no you get a ticket. I wear a seatbelt most the time, but got a 250 dollar ticket in TX driving around the block to the post office near the hotel I was staying at. I never went over 15 MPH.
Fuck you Texas. 

Live and let live, please.


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## The Jake

*Simply put*



Snowolf said:


> Where do you draw the line with this? At what point do you say this is too much?
> 
> So, we get mandatory helmet laws and as is the case, people are still getting traumatic brain injuries because the protection that a helmet offers is very limited at the speeds skiers and riders typically ride. People are still getting injured in the park or riding trees. So, with your model, we then outlaw park riding to reduce this insurance cost burden. Well, shit! People are still getting hurt riding in the trees with broken legs, arms, ribs and some are paralyzed from neck and spine injuries. So, for the greater good, we now ban tree riding. Oops! We see speed is the big factor here so here comes the friendly insurance lobby and now we institute speed limits on the mountain; after all speed limits on the highways saved lives too and while we are on that subject, the 55 MPH speed limit saved a lot of lives so lets go back to that. Which then leads to this; you are required to carry liability insurance on your car so that in the event you injure someone, you have the ability to pay their damages. Well, since many of the skier and rider injuries are the result of collisions, lets mandate that every skier and rider carries personal liability insurance!
> 
> Now take this "progress" as you call it and go across the board with it in all recreation from ATV's, motorcycles, rafting, rock climbing, parasailing, kite boarding, snowmobiling, horseback riding, kayaking, etc, etc. Because we don't want anyone getting hurt out there and affecting our insurance costs we need to pass laws restricting people. I am a back country rider and every year people are injured or die in avalanches, so lets ban all backcountry riding.
> 
> Sorry, you call it progress all you want, to me it is Fascism and Nazism and I reject it utterly and will fight it every step of the way. The fact is that right now, the actual number of annual head injuries are so low as to make no negligible impact on the overall cost of insurance or medical care for the society. Move to universal single payer health care and the costs are even more spread out without a need for insurance company profit and it becomes even less significant.
> 
> There are far more important thing that could be addressed that is affecting your health care costs that a few people each year receiving traumatic brain injuries from skiing and snowboarding. Obesity is probably number one. So, pass a law requiring mandatory exercise programs for people above a certain weight like the military does. You could get all the fatties up on the hill skiing and riding and getting healthy and even without helmets, that would have a bigger impact on your health care costs.
> 
> See? We could go down this road of government intrusiveness for ever and call it progress. So tell me, just how far are you willing to go? At what point is there enough regulation? Where exactly is that line between "progress" and Fascism? I know where it is at and I have stated it; we are on that line right now in America. I want to know where that line is at for you.


Simply put, I draw the line between reasonable and unreasonable. To me, it's reasonable to require helmets because they're substantially safer, not uncomfortable and not intrusive. You know, sorta like seatbelts. 

But rest assured, I don't believe banning the park or banning tree skiing or requiring insurance is reasonable, so there's no need to refute the absurdity of that slippery slope argument.


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## CheeseForSteeze

I finally bought a helmet last week. Bern Watts for those who care. I honestly think it won't do jack in the majority of accidents that occur in snowboarding and will only lessen the severity of ones that involve the neck/head. In extremely rare circumstances, it may exacerbate injuries, particularly to the neck by increasing torque delivered by increasing the moment arm of a force which causes rotation. However, there's also very little burden to own and use one. Therefore, I believe it's more of a personal choice than anything else.

Not to get political, but laws about helmet use are the last thing we need. Like the rash of laws recently further restricting firearms available to law abiding citizens, helmet laws do almost nothing to improve society and at the expense of our personal freedom.

Wear one or not, I am not going to say anything if you do or don't. But if you ask me for a recommendation, I will say get one and wear it.


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## East§ide

Snowolf said:


> Fair point but Fascism is an established form of government and is an apt term for where we are headed and helmet laws are just a tiny part of it. Because of the connotations associated with it, I will refrain from calling it Nazism.
> 
> As for laws requiring lids on kids, I am of the opinion that all things like this should be left up to the parents and the resorts. The government is not our nanny and I am a firm supporter of the concept of a limited government. While being very much a liberal, I am also very libertarian too when it comes to people's freedom and believe there is far too much government intrusion already.
> 
> Now, if the resort wants to enact helmet policies, I have no problem with that. As a private entity, they have that right and no one is forcing me to ride at that or any resort. The reason most resorts (at least out west) don't is because they look at statistics and there just isn't a big enough problem for them to waste the time and money to enact and enforce helmet laws. They stand to loose more money from this. Western states already have laws that strongly protect resorts from liability so even the insurance companies really don't care about this issue.
> 
> This truly is a media driven frenzy fueled by doo gooders and control freaks who just have to have some cause in their lives to campaign for and to just control others.


I can definitely see where you're coming from. I'm of the opinion that almost everything should be about personal choice - abortion, gay marriage, firearms ownership, even seatbelts. 
I am certainly not someone who is a proponent of government control in any form.. I'm currently on probation for something that many of us partake in and something that is proven over and over to do more good than harm. I HATE people who need self validation through controlling others. I guess what I'm saying is that I'm of the same opinion as you are on almost all fronts.. I just don't see an issue in making kids wear helmets - I equate it to school uniforms. If everyone has to wear one, it removes the "uncool" stigma attached to it because it isn't a choice and there's no longer a competition to look cool or compare yourself to your friend next to you. I would say I agree it should be up to the parents, but I don't know how many parents are truly informed on the risks and dangers associated with snow sports in general. 
Meh. I'm bored of this topic now lol. 

Also, FWIW a helmet is a bitchin place for stickers when you have a top sheet as pretty as mine !


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## Casual

I always wear a helmet so when I get to the hill it's just easier to keep it on.


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## CheeseForSteeze

East§ide said:


> I can definitely see where you're coming from. I'm of the opinion that almost everything should be about personal choice - abortion, gay marriage, firearms ownership, even seatbelts.
> I am certainly not someone who is a proponent of government control in any form.. I'm currently on probation for something that many of us partake in and something that is proven over and over to do more good than harm. I HATE people who need self validation through controlling others. I guess what I'm saying is that I'm of the same opinion as you are on almost all fronts.. I just don't see an issue in making kids wear helmets - I equate it to school uniforms. If everyone has to wear one, it removes the "uncool" stigma attached to it because it isn't a choice and there's no longer a competition to look cool or compare yourself to your friend next to you. I would say I agree it should be up to the parents, but I don't know how many parents are truly informed on the risks and dangers associated with snow sports in general.
> Meh. I'm bored of this topic now lol.
> 
> Also, FWIW a helmet is a bitchin place for stickers when you have a top sheet as pretty as mine !


The school uniform analogy doesn't work. Private schools are the ones requiring students to wear uniforms which is perfectly fine since it's a choice to attend a private school and they can have whatever requirements they want of that nature. If it were a resort or service that required the use of helmets, that would be a valid comparison.


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## CheeseForSteeze

Not to pile on but I pretty much echo Snowolf's sentiments exactly. Helmets are, oftentimes, a good idea but good ideas shouldn't be codified into law. That line of thinking always leads to trouble. Eating a cheeseburger and drinking a tasty pint isn't always a good idea, either, but who's to say if we should be able to do such things.


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## The Jake

"No, helmets aren't a big Constitutional crisis but the person who advocates laws requiring heets typically is an advocate for gun confiscation, TSA shakedowns, warrant less wiretaps, and detainment of US citizens by the military without due process inde the NDAA."

Let's see: gun confiscation? Nope, don't believe in that. TSA shakedowns? Yeah, I think people should be checked thoroughly before they get on an airplane. I think the TSA sucks, but it's a shitty job and someone has to do it. Warrantless wiretaps? Nope, wrong again. Detainment of citizens without due process? Nope.

So, now that you've incorrectly stereotyped me (and many other people, I'm sure), do I need to point out the hypocrisy of telling forum members not to call each other "idiots" when they disagree on topics like this, while you, an administrator of the site, deride people on the other side of this debate and call them "control freaks," and "fascists?" Or do the rules not apply to you? 

Yeah, I'm pretty much done with this thread. I enjoy this forum for snowboard talk, but if you want to flaunt your paranoia over the erosion of your rights in the freest fucking country on Earth, you'll have to do that with another member.


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## Gdog42

So... when are you guys going to stop arguing? 


Both sides of this debate have made their points, and the bottom line is that *a given resort* will decide its own helmet requirements. 
If you see someone else without a helmet- it doesn't matter. 
If you see someone else with a helmet- again, it doesn't matter.

If a person who refuses to wear a helmet has an accident, let Snow Patrol worry about that. 
If it's your best friend refusing to wear a helmet... just let them know your* personal concern *for them and maybe they'll change their mind. Otherwise, let them be.


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## TomGfromCanada

you die wearing one, your unlucky. you die without one, your stupid. how would you like to be remembered?


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## Gdog42

TomGfromCanada said:


> you die wearing one, your unlucky. you die without one, your stupid. how would you like to be remembered?


That's a good point.

*But*, what's important is that it doesn't matter how that works out for a different person. Personally, I wouldn't care if someone I didn't know looked like they died stupid, or if they were unlucky. It would literally have nothing to do with me.

That's what this thread has become. A place where people say what they think other people should do even though it has no effect on them whether or not they do it. This thread's original intention was for people to discuss the benefits and downsides of wearing helmets, but now it's all just about *who* should be wearing one. (I'm not pointing to you specifically; just overall. )


----------



## ETM

TomGfromCanada said:


> you die wearing one, your unlucky. you die without one, your stupid. how would you like to be remembered?


Should you specify from a head injury or is dying from hypothermia without a helmet still stupid?


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## CheeseForSteeze

Snowolf said:


> Could not agree more and the more I see shit like this everywhere I turn, the more I understand the conservative point of view. Believe me, living near Portland, a hotbed of insane, radical liberalism and nanny laws, running amok with doo gooders, closet Fascists and control freaks trying to mind everyone else's business, I am rapidly shifting to the right. Can't wait to get the hell out of this place and move to the eastern part of the state that is conservative. I don't agree with many of their views but one thing I like about the conservatives is they mind their own fucking business and don't shove shit like this down people's throats!


Yea but epic lines and a long park season are the upsides, right?

I'm dicking around in CO right now, and the more I am here, the more I like it. Not even the snowboard season; I just did a modest hike up Mount Royal near Frisco on my day off (off from snowboarding that is) in a mild snowstorm and just being out away from everything was therapy better than any drugs could provide. The one thing stopping me from considering permanently moving here is shit like HB 1226 looks like it will signed by Supreme Dickhead Hickenlooper this week.

I don't even have a political affiliation anymore until there becomes an official Party of Live and Let Live.


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## Efilnikufesin

Only reason I wear one id b/c I have smacked my head too many times on East Coast ice and it feels better to do so with a helmet than without. Other than that, people should be able to choose to do so or not, 'tis a free country.

Edit: if your not wearing a helmet would endanger another person's life, then it may be another story, but I say let people hurt themselves in whatever way they want so long as the harm is only put upon themselves.


----------



## The Jake

Snowolf said:


> Dude, not once did I call you any names, not once was I disrespectful to you, not once did I suggest that you were a control freak, a Fascist or any other term that you are CHOOSING TO OWN. I specifically said "is typically" to be sure I was NOT stereotyping everyone. The point is that a majority of people in this camp are this way. I never suggested that you were and was explaining MY position. It was YOU who derided my position by the way. Not only that, but I have NOT called any member of this forum Fascists or control freaks and have used those terms in the general sense; again suggesting that those types exist within the broader group. I have been very careful in choosing my words in this regard. You are taking ownership of these terms voluntarily when all I have ever done is ASK you pointed questions and stated my reasons for not supporting the regulations being discussed. The points I raised were designed to get you the think harder about the unforseen side effects of that which you advocate. I even credited you with having "best intentions". So, what this boils down to is you are offended because not only do I not change my position and agree with yours, but I have the unmittigated gall to argue my position. So, you have an emotional outburst and turn it personal and for added effect suggest that because I am an admin, I am not free to engage in debate, then take your ball and go home.
> 
> This is all on you pal.


Yeah, whatever you say, dude. Good luck in your "Orwellian nightmare" of having to wear a helmet while you snowboard. Oh, the horror. 

And for what it's worth, you don't even know what fascism is. A helmet law in this country would come in one of two ways: capitalism and representative democracy.

Capitalism, in that a private resort chooses to impose a helmet requirement because they believe it's in their best financial interest to do so.

Representative democracy in that the elected representatives decide to legislate the issue, having been duly and properly elected by their constituents. They don't BAN snowboarding. They simply regulate it to make it safer. And if those constituents feel that their elected officials did a poor job, they have the ability to vote for someone else in the next term.

Two ways, neither of which is fascist. You simply use the term as hyperbole. A scare tactic. "Sit idly by while helmet laws get made and one day you won't be able to snowboard at all." That's your argument. And it's the same argument people made when seatbelt laws first happened. "Sit idly by while seatbelt laws get made and one day you won't be able to drive." How'd that work out? 

It's bullshit paranoia, nothing more.


----------



## Efilnikufesin

The Jake said:


> Yeah, whatever you say, dude. Good luck in your "Orwellian nightmare" of having to wear a helmet while you snowboard. Oh, the horror.
> 
> And for what it's worth, you don't even know what fascism is. A helmet law in this country would come in one of two ways: capitalism and representative democracy.
> 
> Capitalism, in that a private resort chooses to impose a helmet requirement because they believe it's in their best financial interest to do so.
> 
> Representative democracy in that the elected representatives decide to legislate the issue, having been duly and properly elected by their constituents. They don't BAN snowboarding. They simply regulate it to make it safer. And if those constituents feel that their elected officials did a poor job, they have the ability to vote for someone else in the next term.
> 
> Two ways, neither of which is fascist. You simply use the term as hyperbole. A scare tactic. "Sit idly by while helmet laws get made and one day you won't be able to snowboard at all." That's your argument. And it's the same argument people made when seatbelt laws first happened. "Sit idly by while seatbelt laws get made and one day you won't be able to drive." How'd that work out?
> 
> It's bullshit paranoia, nothing more.


Nice to see someone not afraid of their right to chose taken away :yahoo:


----------



## The Jake

Again, it's not that I'm cool with my right to choose being taken away for everything. Quite the opposite, actually. I'm cool with the government imposing reasonable regulations for certain things. That is, after all, part of why we have government in the first place. To make rules that are a compromise between the extremes of "no rules" (anarchy) and "too many rules" (nanny state). 

65 mph on interstate highways, 55 mph on state highways, 40 mph on county roads, seatbelts, driver's licenses, mandated car insurance. Those things certainly seem reasonable to me when it comes to operating a motor vehicle. I see things like that and I think "that's a little annoying, but I understand." I certainly don't feel less free. 

And then there are other people who see a speed limit sign and automatically think "fascism! Gee, I bet Canada is better."

Hint: it's not.


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## SuperNewb

This thread is hilarious.

Wear a helmet, don't wear a helmet...who cares?

I wear one when I plan on hitting the park. If I'm just cruising, I'll leave it in the car. I'm a grown up, I know the risks of not wearing one. But we take risks every day. 

The fact that this is 28 pages is ridiculous...


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## SuperNewb

The Jake said:


> Again, it's not that I'm cool with my right to choose being taken away for everything. Quite the opposite, actually. I'm cool with the government imposing reasonable regulations for certain things. That is, after all, part of why we have government in the first place. To make rules that are a compromise between the extremes of "no rules" (anarchy) and "too many rules" (nanny state).
> 
> 65 mph on interstate highways, 55 mph on state highways, 40 mph on county roads, seatbelts, driver's licenses, mandated car insurance. Those things certainly seem reasonable to me when it comes to operating a motor vehicle. I see things like that and I think "that's a little annoying, but I understand." I certainly don't feel less free.
> 
> And then there are other people who see a speed limit sign and automatically think "fascism! Gee, I bet Canada is better."
> 
> Hint: it's not.


What about seatbelt laws?


----------



## CassMT

RIP SuperNewb, it's only a matter of time (and a pile of taxpayer money) (lol)


----------



## The Jake

"Reasonable" is different for everyone. I fully agree that it's subjective. But the point is, government exists to make compromise between people like me and people like you. You are opposed to ANY sort of regulation or even talk of regulation, which means you are opposed to compromise. You are opposed to government doing its job. You'd rather have NO government or have them not do ANY job.

What do you think traffic accident statistics would look like if there were no speed limits or seatbelt laws? 

What do you think alcoholism would look like if there were no drinking age? 

The fairy tale of "I'll do whatever I want without any government intrusion" is just not going to happen. Not in this country, at least. And why? It's because most people are conscientious and reasonable about what restrictions should be permitted and what restrictions go too far.


----------



## Efilnikufesin

The Jake said:


> Again, it's not that I'm cool with my right to choose being taken away for everything. Quite the opposite, actually. I'm cool with the government imposing reasonable regulations for certain things. That is, after all, part of why we have government in the first place. To make rules that are a compromise between the extremes of "no rules" (anarchy) and "too many rules" (nanny state).
> 
> 65 mph on interstate highways, 55 mph on state highways, 40 mph on county roads, seatbelts, driver's licenses, mandated car insurance. Those things certainly seem reasonable to me when it comes to operating a motor vehicle. I see things like that and I think "that's a little annoying, but I understand." I certainly don't feel less free.
> 
> And then there are other people who see a speed limit sign and automatically think "fascism! Gee, I bet Canada is better."
> 
> Hint: it's not.



Your choice to wear a helmet only effects yourself, those speed limits effect other people whether pedestrians or other cars. Plus the ability to operate a motor vehicle is not a RIGHT.


----------



## SuperNewb

CassMT said:


> RIP SuperNewb, it's only a matter of time (and a pile of taxpayer money) (lol)


Matter of time? We've had them in Ohio for as long as I can remember. "Click it or ticket". Dumbest slogan of all time....lol

I wear my seatbelt every time I drive. With that said, I fully support someone's right to not wear theirs. Why should I care?


----------



## CassMT

CassMT said:


> (lol)


 you musta missed that bit

love my '87 bronco cuz the are no fudgin' seatbelt alarms,hah


----------



## The Jake

Ha "take up arms." 

See, in Dirty Harry fantasy land, "taking up arms" sounds cool. You get together with your buddies, form a little militia. Call yourselves the "Sons of Liberty" or some shit like that. Maybe play a little paintball to keep your skills sharp. Then you sit around and talk about how cool it would be to fend off an FBI raid when they come for your snowboard beanies.

Do you know what that same scenario looks like in real life, tough guy?

Waco, Texas. 

Yeah, now I'm really done here.


----------



## ThunderChunky

Snowolf said:


> Oh he's used to it. I see that he lives on New York City, where there are now laws regulating what size soda you have from a fast food joint or gas station. I hear that their Dear Leader, is also banning 2 liter bottles from being silvered with your pizza. Yeah, you can keep that Orwellian shit in New York. Out west, we actually value freedom and individuality and will take up arms to defend it if necessary.


This state is bullshit. Seriously the most ridiculous state. They polled our class in high school and out of 139 students only around 10 said they planned on staying in New York State. The state outside of NYC is dying. Everyone is packing up and moving out. Jobs are leaving, people are done dealing with bull shit, and the jack offs in Albany are sitting there with their thumbs up their asses frantically trying to figure out why everyone is leaving the state like their ignorant asses have no clue why. Wish NYC would just fuck off and become their own god damn state. That's the way it's ran now, except all of our money goes to those fuckers.


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## CassMT

yeh, out here the squirrels are strapped

Ruby Ridge, kevlar helmets mandatory


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## ThunderChunky

Sorry, I went rant mode, but this place is a fucking dead limb of NYC. Sick of it. I mean seriously, you're going to try and tell me what I can and can't fucking eat.


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## snowklinger

Snowolf said:


> Seat belt laws? I am opposed to. Yes, I ALWAYS wear a seatbelt but if I don't, it only affects me. I am from Arizona and we have no motorcycle helmet laws and I support that 100%. Do I wear a helmet on a motorcycle? Usually! When its a 115 out, fuck no I didn't. I as a legal adult had the right to weight the risks and make a choice and that's the way it should be. That choice does not adversely affect other people on the road. Arizona understands that it is not its place to be the people's personal nanny and until you have lived in a place like it, you will never understand.


I agree with you pretty much on the point that helmet and seatbelt laws are bullshit, but I am also perplexed by the issue of "you didn't wear a seatbelt and now we have to take care of your vegetative ass as a burden on our society". People who aren't smart enough to wear a seat belt, fear the "click it or ticket" and as a result cost us tons less in healthcare collectively.

I mean gnarly traffic accidents are pretty prevalent in this country...(and yes idiots who would not click it unless TOLD are causing them IMO)

:dunno:


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## EastCoastChris

I'm a New Yorker and I support the soda ban.

First of all New York is the only state in the country that charges counties for Medicaid spending. Counties mostly rely in some form of property tax to pay the Medicaid bill (the 5 counties in NYC are exceptions.) So its entrenched bad fiscal policy that is killing the state. Taxes that transfer resources across income levels as rule shouldnt come from real property. You can move to NJ and get more for you money. 

But while I've never read the research, I understand there is some to support the hypothesis that people will decrease calorie intake if portion size is regulated (they will drink only the 16 oz soda rather than buy 2 whereas preban they'd buy the 32 oz and drink every sip.) Over time this helps reduce cases of chronic diseases such as heart disease and diabetes. Chronic disease management is a massive suck on health care spending, public and private. 

To me this isnt much different than Dept of Buildings mandating indoor plumbing at the turn of the century. Yes the state can regulate your rights to shit in a hole, even if you own the hole outright...since it reduces the spread of dysentery. If large portions contribute to unsustainable growth in health care costs, of course the state has the right to regulate portion sizes. If you want more, buy 2. But the evidence shows you probably won't.


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## EastCoastChris

Snowolf said:


> In 23 years of commercial driving with well over 2 million logged miles. I have only been involved in two minor fender benders neither my fault involving drunk people swerving into me.


But assuming you are somewhere's within 3 standard deviations from the mean (as 96% of the population is) you have had 2 incidents leading to minor injuries in 2 million miles. 

I have done max 5000 miles via snowboarding in my life and have had a broken wrist, many contusions, a concussion and one wicked case of frostbite. I have done hundreds of thousands of miles in an automobile and maybe one got a very unflattering arm tan. 

Does this hold up for death rates vs minor injury? I dont know. For a number of reasons its harder to die snowboarding than driving. But I still contend snowboarding is waaaay more dangerous that driving but not nearly as dangerous as say football or maybe being a jockey.

Potential really means the same thing as probability so you have to play by those rules. The best person to ask would be an insurance actuary. If you could hold all other variables equal...I still think a 22 year old pro tour rider is going to have a higher disability premium than the 22 year old Teamster driving the Costco truck.


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## EastCoastChris

You can't really solve aggregate problems with individual solutions. I agree that a more elegant solution would be to tax the shit out of the 2nd 32 ounces. I'd rather have people be able to buy a big gulp...but have it cost more than gasoline. But in lieu of that regulating thebsale of the 2nd 16 ounces in the most minor of ways (you have to carry two cups) isnt a big deal if it saves billions in health costs and productivity related to chronic disease. 

And just for the record my husband has combat arms, a bronze star and a 100% disability rating from the VA. And he supports the soda ban. But mostly because he's sick of getting buped about by super fat people on the subway. We all have our motivations I guess...


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## behi

To add some rough numbers to the injury rate discussion.

People drive about 3'000 billion passenger miles in the US per year. There are around 2 million injuries for car occupants per year. Assuming you drive 100miles / per snowboarding day, that works out to 1 injury / 15'000 days (ignoring road conditions).

Statistics for snowboarding show around 1 injury / 350 days.


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## East§ide

SnoWolf, you do have to take into account that you ride more frequently that probably 99% of us on terrain that is much less crowded and with more advanced riders.
I often feel at alot of resorts around me that I have a better chance of someone smashing into me on the mountain than on the roads getting there.
Alot of this probably boils down to personal experience and conditions also.. I get many many fewer days a year than you, yet because of the conditions I ride in, which are probably less forgiving overall, I've already suffered a concussion, 2 broken collarbones and tons of scrapes and ice burns. Now, I don't want to assume, but I do know that you get to do alot of back country riding and that you're probably exposed to far more powder (forgiving conditions.) so based on personal experience, as much as I love to snowboard, it will seem, and justifiably so, more dangerous to me than to you. 
I think the entire political side of this argument is just too much - it exists right now only in a state of "oh no's" and "what ifs." You seem well travelled, but idk if you've ever been to NYC. It's the cultural epicenter of this country, and much, much more liberal and free than many would probably think. Bloomberg may seem like a control freak, and I don't necessarily agree with his proposed bans on certain drinks, the tax on tobacco, etc. but he isn't a stupid man either and fiscally there is merit to what he is doing. We can all agree that tobacco isn't good for your health .. By taxing the shit out of it, NYC is able to recoup some money while making those who smoke ( and I'm one of them) think twice about spending 12$ for their next pack. They can if they want, but it definitely stops and makes you think.


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## East§ide

Maybe I'm naive, but I like to think that the checks and balances of this government still has some merit. Bloombergs power only extends so far,and even though he is subject to being overruled by higher ups.

And I'm not saying the degree of difficult with which you ride is less, but I would surmise that the people you ride WITH are more advanced like yourself and therefore pose less of a threat to you on the mountain than say you're once a year north easterners who are more like land mines on the trails than other riders. I am constantly watching in every direction to keep myself safe. I've been injured and fallen more trying to avoid injuring someone else who cannot control themselves than in any other way on the mountain... Knock on wood.
Even my broken collarbone (the first time) was a case of coming over a lip doing a small FS 180 and seeing a 6 year old in rental skis right in my landing area


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## racer357

I am dumbfounded that this thread has 310 posts with grown people discussing the merits of wearing a helmet.

It's like arguing if Chevy is better than GMC. There is no correct answer, do what works for YOU!!!


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## East§ide

Oh believe me, I'm envious of every picture you post of where you ride lol. Those are things I only get to see in dreams ! On the upside, we are getting some late season snow over here also which may extend the season a week or two .

And I know you weren't comparing Stalin to Bloomberg exactly.. I was just trying to intelligently add to the convo while I took my morning poop before work.


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## ItchEtrigR

Snowolf said:


>


Absolutely insane!!!! 

Rescue helicopter on standby, search & rescue team ready to deploy, GPS beacon, personal avalanche guide and a helmet for me if I was ever to attempt something like that.... Boy I'd love to learn....

Fascinating!!!


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## behi

Snowolf said:


> Of those snowboarding injuries, how many were caused by someone else?


According to a paper I have here, collisions account for 6.4% of accidents (for snowboarders + skiers). Skiers are 3x more likely to be involved in collisions (my perceptions about the reckless skier morons appear to correct), so the number for snowboarders alone will be significantly lower.


> Of those car injuries, how many were caused by the other driver?


All I suppose. 



> I feel that I have way more control over my own safety on the mountain than I do on the road where any ding dong can screw up and take me out. Add to that the idea that I would much rather get clocked by the 200 pound out of control skier at 35 MPH than the texting teenager in dads 2,000 pound SUV doing 60 MPH


Neither one sounds very healthy.

Just the other day, I was standing outside the lift line. A skier moron goes by the slow sign at maybe 40mph, tries a hockey stop, his edges dig in and he catapults himself flying for 25ft or so. If I hadn't seen him coming, he might have hit me.

I feel safer in a car...


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## EastCoastChris

behi said:


> To add some rough numbers to the injury rate discussion.
> 
> People drive about 3'000 billion passenger miles in the US per year. There are around 2 million injuries for.ar occupants per year. Assuming you drive 100miles / per snowboarding day, that works out to 1 injury / 15'000 days (ignoring road conditions).
> 
> Statistics for snowboarding show around 1 injury / 350 days.


That was close to what my gut said. But I didn't try to look up any numbers. Thanks for the effort. 
Is days per rider injury an industry standard metric? It makes more sense than what I was trying to use (rider miles per injury.) Lol. I'm a research analyst and have learned a TON of industries over the years but sadly winter outdoor recreation isnt one of them. 

I don't people should be weary of stats per se. They just need to understand what the stats are trying to tell them and understand the basic rules of probability and statistical testing.


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## Hose91

*Beautiful shots, but...*

I love these shots, but I have to admit that my Navy flying career spoiled me a bit. If you cant put about 15 degrees nose up on the VDI, firewall the throttles and be absolutely rock solid certain that the plane will climb away regardless of conditions, I'm a little sketchy (especially with no ejection seat). I did most of my land based flying out of San Diego, but made a couple of trips up to Whidbey and grew up in the Cascades watching the A-6's blast overhead on the VR-1351/1355. We had a couple of nice low level routes over the Colorado River and the Salton Sea out east of El Centro, but they weren't quite the same, although you could roll right over Big Bear and say hi to the midweek folks on the slopes. Big props to you mountain flyers in a 182. 

P.S. I'd probably wear a helmet


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## MarshallV82

Snowolf said:


> Thanks bro and thanks for serving your country ( ex Air Force here). The 182 is perfect for those long cross country flights but when I want to really get the goods in the backcountry, its the Aviat Husky....:yahoo:


Do you own these planes or own a share of them? When I was looking into taking lessons buying a share seemed to be the route to take. 
Unfortunately life / career started taking off and I kind of pushed it off. I'd love to start checking on it again. 

10 or so years ago they figured around 10k to get a private pilot lisence. Getting your Instrument ratings looked like it would be the big cost !


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## Gdog42

Hey Snowolf, what exactly was your occupation in the Air Force? That's really interesting. 

I just started out in the AFROTC program and plan on graduating as an Engineering Officer. Going good so far. I just need to secure my US citizenship by my 2nd semester next year, which I should definitely be able to do since I've been a Permanent Resident for 5 years now...


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## Hose91

Thanks for the kind words, and right back at you. Always a little good natured service rivalry there, but if I learned one thing in my time, its that ALL the services are filled with great people, and we're all on the same team. 

That being said, I have some jealousy here, as there is definitely some bad-assery in that kind of back country flying. If only I could take advantage of that sort of terrain on a snowboard. :dizzy:

Actually getting ready to finish my Navy career and return to the PNW this summer. Very much looking forward to getting out of the mid atlantic and back to the west coast after being gone for 20+ years, especially with the pictures found on this forum.


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## MarshallV82

Snowolf said:


> I rent from the FBO at the airport. That Husky belongs to a friend. I got my PPL in 1997 and I breezed through training and got it just a few hours over FAA minimum hours but added about 6 hours of spin recovery and aerobatic maneuvers. Back then it cost be about 4 grand.
> 
> I got the Instrument Rating, Complex and High Performance endorsements in 2002. That ran me about 6 grand. Working on finishing my Commercial Rating; I have completed the ground school and am about 1/4 through flight training. Once that is done, I plan on knocking out my CFI and CFII and go back to Arizona and work as a full time flight instructor.


Awesome retirement plan :thumbsup:


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## snowklinger

Snowolf said:


> Had some fun times in the Air Force. Regret not staying in for my 20!



I dunno man I've seen the pics. I think you've done pretty fucken well with your time. My best friend joined the army the day after we graduated high school('94), and I'm not gonna lie, looking at retirement at 38 sounds pretty awesome....


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## East§ide

like i said, helmets are bitchin spots for stickers lmao


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## KIRKRIDER

Snowolf said:


> Note, I am not suggesting that you are a helmet evangelical in any way; I know you much better than that.



Thanks...For a moment I thought. 

Last weekend, poaching for stashes of pow with my son, cruising trough woods at low speed, I dodge a branch, just to get the next broken pointy stump right on my forehead. almost knocked me off the board. It was pointing at me and was a pretty sharp one too. without helmet I would have needed stitches for sure. But then I use protective gloves and padded shorts too..


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## MarshallV82

KIRKRIDER said:


> Thanks...For a moment I thought.
> 
> Last weekend, poaching for stashes of pow with my son, cruising trough woods at low speed, I dodge a branch, just to get the next broken pointy stump right on my forehead. almost knocked me off the board. It was pointing at me and was a pretty sharp one too. without helmet I would have needed stitches for sure. But then I use protective gloves and padded shorts too..


Helmets definently made ripping through trees nicer, instead of dodging tiny branches I just bash right through them. I seem to use them more like a football player.

Oh, and fuck the new tuck rule.


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## Nerozor

Which helmet do you guys recommend for wearing a beanie and goggles under it?


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## KIRKRIDER

Nerozor said:


> Which helmet do you guys recommend for wearing a beanie and goggles under it?



You should not wear a beanie under it...a loose helmet is worst than no helmet for neck injuries AFAIK. I do use a thin under helmet...but then my head is shaved


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## Nerozor

KIRKRIDER said:


> You should not wear a beanie under it...a loose helmet is worst than no helmet for neck injuries AFAIK. I do use a thin under helmet...but then my head is shaved


Really? I see alot of guys with a beanie under it... And it just looks cooler, well atleast with the goggle strap under it.


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## MarshallV82

Nerozor said:


> Really? I see alot of guys with a beanie under it... And it just looks cooler, well atleast with the goggle strap under it.


He's right on.. Tons of people do it though, I don't know how ppl can wear stuff under them anyway, they're hot as shit.
Just get a thin balaclava.


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## East§ide

KIRKRIDER said:


> You should not wear a beanie under it...a loose helmet is worst than no helmet for neck injuries AFAIK. I do use a thin under helmet...but then my head is shaved


i would say youre right but in my particular case, there is literally no movement at all with my helmet on and my beanie..in fact, the velcro on the inside of the helmet from where the earpads were tends to stick to the beanie and hold it in place even better. i realize that riding with a loose helmet makes no sense at all, so i make sure that the fit is correct.

edit: im also a sunglass freak and much prefer being able to take my helmet off without removing my goggles.


MarshallV82 said:


> He's right on.. Tons of people do it though, I don't know how ppl can wear stuff under them anyway, they're hot as shit.
> Just get a thin balaclava.


i wear an underarmour hood/face masks and a beanie over it...with the Bern Baker it really doesnt get that warm in there, especially with the winter padding removed. Plus sweating always makes me feel like i worked out harder than i probably did lol


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## KIRKRIDER

You might be right too...I was reading online. Remove the padding and it should fit fine.


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## East§ide

Doesn't work for everyone probably but I find that it fits really really well


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## Donutz

KIRKRIDER said:


> Last weekend, poaching for stashes of pow with my son, cruising trough woods at low speed, I dodge a branch, just to get the next broken pointy stump right on my forehead. almost knocked me off the board. It was pointing at me and was a pretty sharp one too. without helmet I would have needed stitches for sure. But then I use protective gloves and padded shorts too..


Yesterday at Baker, I fell in a gnarly patch of deep stuff. As I was getting up, NWBoarder came in, fell over backwards, and smacked me right on the forehead with the bottom of his board. I actually saw the big ol' NS insigna coming straight at me.

Pretty glad I had a helmet on. :dizzy:


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## CheeseForSteeze

Snowolf said:


> Anyway, today was a total tree day for me and I like my bump cap for all those low branches. It's nice not having to even care about getting nicked by them!


I still maintain my opinion that helmets offer non-negligible but marginal protection against impact. However, this is a good point. Helmets are a must for working tight trees IMO.


----------



## tj_ras

Must say im glad i was wearing mine this week when i took a spill, the warmer weather had exposed lots of rocks in the trees along side the runs, but it had just snowed a couple inches so the rocks could not be seen. 

Long story short, i went thru some trees tapped a few rocks, stoped me dead, did a tuck and roll only to hit my right arm/head/back off tons of big rocks. Hit my head so hard it sent my go pro flying into the trees.


Also i wear my goggle strap, coldgear blacava and coldgear "beanie" under my helmet, fits perfect with the ear pad piece removed. Feels better this way for me.


----------



## Deacon

Well, y'all talked me into it. That and the gps telling me I'm hitting 45-50 mph. Giro Chapter. First helmet, fits good, doesn't feel too heavy and my goggles fit well with it on.


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## East§ide

The Deacon said:


> Well, y'all talked me into it. That and the gps telling me I'm hitting 45-50 mph. Giro Chapter. First helmet, fits good, doesn't feel too heavy and my goggles fit well with it on.


i hit 42 on my Evo the other day and realized how badly I needed my edges sharpened lol. almost pooped myself.:thumbsup:


----------



## Hose91

East§ide said:


> i hit 42 on my Evo the other day and realized how badly I needed my edges sharpened lol. almost pooped myself.:thumbsup:


Ha. No helmet on the market today will solve THAT particular safety problem!


----------



## East§ide

true story lol.

that was one of those times when your brain just keeps screaming "youd better not fuck this up"


----------



## Vinh

East§ide said:


> true story lol.
> 
> that was one of those times when your brain just keeps screaming "youd better not fuck this up"


Wouldn't that be something the lines of this:


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## East§ide

now youre just bragging lol


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## tokyo_dom

On Saturday we had some of the worst conditions i have ever boarded on. 15 degrees Celsius on the mountain the previous day, melting most of the top layer, then an incredibly cold night and 0 degrees on Satuday, refreezing that melted layer into a rock hard ice pack. Not just some runs, but every single run was like this. And even at 4:30pm, there was no slush built up, just slick, noisy ice.

Worst conditions may be subjective though, because of the lack of moguls/bumps it meant that every run could be bombed faster than i have ever ridden before.

However my wife was not enjoying it so much. Caught a heel edge a couple of times and not even padded shorts could save her from nasty bruises. And after hitting her head once (mild concussion), she has finally agreed "I want a helmet"

She was dead set against helmets until that fall (said that they were ugly, and that only pros need them)... and i feel bad, but i am almost happy she fell. Feel much safer with her having maximum protection possible.


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## MarshallV82

Since I had my helmet I didn't feel the need to duck from some low hanging brush. Unfortunately the branch was a little larger than I anticipated. I had to pull chunks off wood from my helmet vents after it knocked me the fuck down.

Haha.

Kinda backfired on me, If I didn't have it on I would have got low though, gotta stop letting it give me confidence.


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## CassMT

MarshallV82;867194 Unfortunately the branch was a little larger than I anticipated. I[/QUOTE said:


> i often smack branches and shit out of the way, the other day i misjudged a small tree's thickness, it did not move, and it had me gut-punched before i could react...luckily i wasnt going too fast or ida been a shishkabob


----------



## Nerozor

Today I had a pretty close call I would say. I was riding the park at my local resort, which means the jumps are very steep and alot of kick, so they can easly throw an not so experienced park rider like me to the ground. It was on a 45-50ft jump, and I think I was too much on my heels as when I got up in the air, I started to fall backwards and ended up landing nearly flat on my back and hit my head slightly! To redeem myself, I went up and hit it again, but just more on my toes and success! lol 
Lesson learned for sure, I wont hit the park without helmet anymore


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## vknyvz

it's ironic how helmet is in the fashion section


----------



## The Jake

tokyo_dom said:


> On Saturday we had some of the worst conditions i have ever boarded on. 15 degrees Celsius on the mountain the previous day, melting most of the top layer, then an incredibly cold night and 0 degrees on Satuday, refreezing that melted layer into a rock hard ice pack. Not just some runs, but every single run was like this. And even at 4:30pm, there was no slush built up, just slick, noisy ice.
> 
> Worst conditions may be subjective though, because of the lack of moguls/bumps it meant that every run could be bombed faster than i have ever ridden before.
> 
> However my wife was not enjoying it so much. Caught a heel edge a couple of times and not even padded shorts could save her from nasty bruises. And after hitting her head once (mild concussion), she has finally agreed "I want a helmet"
> 
> She was dead set against helmets until that fall (said that they were ugly, and that only pros need them)... and i feel bad, but i am almost happy she fell. Feel much safer with her having maximum protection possible.


This is often the case with the anti-helmet crowd. You don't want one until you or someone close to you falls, hits your/their head and nearly suffers a really, really serious injury. 

And for every dozen or so people who get EXTREMELY LUCKY, who hit their heads on the snow and don't suffer major damage, there's one or two boarders who are unlucky, suffer a traumatic brain injury, and have to live with some limitation for the rest of their lives.

And why? Because they want to spite the people who tell them they should wear helmets. 

Pride goeth before a fall, as they say.


----------



## tokyo_dom

Her excuses went from "I only ride on normal slopes, i dont do the park like you" to "it makes you look like a pro, i dont want to look pro". Meanwhile i wore my helmet whether it was a bunny hill or a 20ft kicker (max for me so far). But we are going helmet shopping this weekend. Bit late in the season, but better late than never.


One of the minor benefits: A yardsale with a helmet is just a slide, gather your composure, keep riding. 

None of this unclipping to collect your goggles & beanie which flew off when you fell, then trying to clear snow from your gear. It all stays on your head...


----------



## Gdog42

Snowolf said:


> 63150 Fuels Specialist
> 
> Refueled A-10 warthog / F-15 Eagle fighters, KC-135 tankers, RC-135 AWACS and Cobra Ball recon at Eielson AFB Fairbanks, Elmendorf AFB Anchorage Alaska. 1984-1987
> 
> Actually got to fly on the AWACS. Was pretty intense shit going on during the Cold War with the Soviet Union! We came pretty damn close to nuking ourselves into extinction in September and November of 83. When the Soviets shot down KAL Flight 007 a 747 with 300 souls, Reagan dropped us to DEFCON-1 and we had one night where every B-52 scrambled. Nothing quite like having every siren and emergency light going off and seeing all 7 fully nuke laden B-52 leave the alert pad and line up at the runway! We were all shitting ourselves thinking Spokane had maybe 8 minutes left!



Snowolf, sounds like you had a really interesting experience with the Air Force. I mean holy shit, I can only imagine the stress of that night involving the chance of being nuked by the Soviets. Thankfully that didn't happen though. 

I guess it takes a person trained by the military to run a forum as crazy as this!


----------



## CheeseForSteeze

Nerozor said:


> Today I had a pretty close call I would say. I was riding the park at my local resort, which means the jumps are very steep and alot of kick, so they can easly throw an not so experienced park rider like me to the ground. It was on a 45-50ft jump, and I think I was too much on my heels as when I got up in the air, I started to fall backwards and ended up landing nearly flat on my back and hit my head slightly! To redeem myself, I went up and hit it again, but just more on my toes and success! lol
> Lesson learned for sure, I wont hit the park without helmet anymore


Not to sound like a dick but as an admittedly inexperienced park rider, there's no real reason to be on a lippy 45 footer. I've progressed a lot on small, near-zero consequence 10-15 footers.


----------



## KansasNoob

IMO you're more likely to be injured on a blue/green groomed trail than you are by hitting a tree when you're out cruising in the trees. I don't have much experience to speak from, but everyone I know personally that's been injured was on an easy trail and got hit by someone.


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## Bart

Park or not, falling from 6 feet or more onto usually hard stuff hurts, period. I started wearing one after getting knocked out for a really quick moment--scared the sh*t out of me then. Since then, one less thing to worry about and focus on riding rather than the "what ifs..." Even better--get the headphone speakers for the earpads if that's ur game.

How fashionable.


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## Gdog42

Bart said:


> Even better--get the headphone speakers for the earpads if that's ur game.
> 
> How fashionable.


True, the audio compatibility of helmets is a great feature. :thumbsup: Speaking of which...
Outdoor Technology is releasing a new wireless drop-in audio set specifically for snowboard helmets in September this year. They're also doing a collaboration project with Bern.
http://www.outdoortechnology.com/Shop/Chips/

These will be a lot better than those shitty Skull Candy ones for the Giro helmets that break easily. I have a Giro helmet and I put in a pair of loud earphones with volume control on the wire instead. 

Ain't nothin like listening to an epic track on a fresh pow line! :yahoo:


----------



## East§ide

Those look nice, but for $130 I'd rather buy skull candy earbuds and replace them 2 times a season . That's more than the helmets themselves cost..


----------



## vknyvz

Gdog42 said:


> True, the audio compatibility of helmets is a great
> Ain't nothin like listening to an epic track on a fresh pow line! :yahoo:


how about smoking hookah and drinking beer while playing black ops 2?


look good but for 130 dollars man that's too much


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## Gdog42

vknyvz said:


> how about smoking hookah and drinking beer while playing black ops 2?


_Black Ops 2_? 

Bitch please. :laugh:

That game is crap! 
And no,* that is still no where near* as much fun as shredding pow! Sorry, but that's like trying to suggest eating a piece of cardboard over a bagel. It doesn't work!


----------



## horia.ancas

Snowolf said:


> Actually, I think you have the wrong impression. There really is no such thing as an "anti helmet" person. I have never ever encountered a person who was actually against wearing a helmet or tried to dissuade others from wearing a helmet. Everyone agrees that helmets do offer some protection in some circumstances.
> 
> I have also never, ever encountered a person who might have wanted to wear a helmet but didn't because they were "spiting" someone. The bottom line here is that people object to having others push helmet use and not just mind their own business. It gets old having people preaching and pushing their opinions on others. It becomes Fascist when people try to force others to their will by making it the law. The people who do not want to wear a helmet don't want others to quit wearing theirs, they just want to be left alone and not have busy bodies in their face preaching.
> 
> This whole issue is really very simple. If you want to wear a helmet do so. If you see someone else riding without a helmet, keep your mouth shut and don't mind their business. It's not your place to butt into someone else's business. If people would mind their own business and stop trying to control what everyone else is doing, this country would get along a lot better.


Wow, that's a really great post :thumbsup:
Sums it up pretty good.


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## Liliana

Snowolf said:


> Actually, I think you have the wrong impression. There really is no such thing as an "anti helmet" person. I have never ever encountered a person who was actually against wearing a helmet or tried to dissuade others from wearing a helmet. Everyone agrees that helmets do offer some protection in some circumstances.
> 
> I have also never, ever encountered a person who might have wanted to wear a helmet but didn't because they were "spiting" someone. The bottom line here is that people object to having others push helmet use and not just mind their own business. It gets old having people preaching and pushing their opinions on others. *It becomes Fascist when people try to force others to their will by making it the law*. The people who do not want to wear a helmet don't want others to quit wearing theirs, they just want to be left alone and not have busy bodies in their face preaching.
> 
> This whole issue is really very simple. If you want to wear a helmet do so. If you see someone else riding without a helmet, keep your mouth shut and don't mind their business. It's not your place to butt into someone else's business. If people would mind their own business and stop trying to control what everyone else is doing, this country would get along a lot better.


I think you are really degrading the meaning of the word "Fascist" when you use it in this context. Most laws are exactly that: forcing an opinion or preference of one group of people onto the entire society. From your point of view we are already living in a Fascist state, after all, seat belts and motorcycle helmets, and a slew of other things of that nature are already mandatory by law. Mandatory auto insurance is also a Fascist concept then. Is that how you think about it, too?


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## ThunderChunky

Liliana said:


> I think you are really degrading the meaning of the word "Fascist" when you use it in this context. Most laws are exactly that: forcing an opinion or preference of one group of people onto the entire society. From your point of view we are already living in a Fascist state, after all, seat belts and motorcycle helmets, and a slew of other things of that nature are already mandatory by law. Mandatory auto insurance is also a Fascist concept then. Is that how you think about it, too?


Doesn't have anything to do with what we are talking about and doesn't change anything. This is a Red Herring.


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## East§ide

Not even touching this with a 20 foot pole lol. 
I think we all agree you probably SHOULD wear a helmet, but in the end it's up to you. By SnoWolf saying that he is an adult that understands the inherent risk and makes his choice regardless, it's a perfectly valid argument. Not wearing one because you think you are immune to injury, on the other hand, is really just a foolish and dangerous way to think. I do think in some way or another every decision you make can indirectly effect someone else - ie. you become a brain mushed vegetable and your family is stuck taking care of you, dealing with the grief and the expenses. That's a worst case scenario though and it kind of a moot point. I never ride without one now , simply because for me, the risks outweigh the benefits and as I've gotten older I've realized for me personally I simply can't afford to risk that type of injury


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## OU812

Have most of these helmets been thoroughly test to actually prevent injuries? The reason I ask is, there are a lot out there so which are good? I'm sure some are better than others. This is the same with car seats for kids. A lot to choose from and some do next to nothing to prevent injuries and are faulty. 
I'm not saying child car seats are useless, nor am I saying the same for helmets but if you're barreling down a run at 50mph and wipe out and bang your head, how much will a helmet help you? I've been in the market to buy a good one and I'm surprised how light they feel with don't have a whole lot of padding.


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## pdxrealtor

hikeswithdogs said:


> Trees, rocks and other idiots slamming into your melon will kill you , I have music and phone integration which is convenient and it keeps me warm and safe.
> 
> After a few hours you won't even notice it


Exactly. 

For me, even on days like yesterday when it's 55* spring slush, no tree riding, etc... I still wear one, because there's always that chance of a collision with another rider. 

If you're going to wear one, wear it. It only takes once. That's my take.

I too have Bluetooth phone and music integration in my helmet. 

Actually for the first time last weekend the helmet actually saved my head. I top head planted on a cat track enough to yard sale everything. IF that would have been my head I might not have gotten right back up. :thumbsup:


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## stickz

OU812 said:


> Have most of these helmets been thoroughly test to actually prevent injuries? The reason I ask is, there are a lot out there so which are good? I'm sure some are better than others. This is the same with car seats for kids. A lot to choose from and some do next to nothing to prevent injuries and are faulty.
> I'm not saying child car seats are useless, nor am I saying the same for helmets but if you're barreling down a run at 50mph and wipe out and bang your head, how much will a helmet help you? I've been in the market to buy a good one and I'm surprised how light they feel with don't have a whole lot of padding.


If you get a ski race helmet I bet those are rated for speeds above 50...


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## OU812

stickz said:


> If you get a ski race helmet I bet those are rated for speeds above 50...


Yea true, but this isn't for me. I won't be hauling ass down a run anytime soon but just meant in general how these light helmets perform at higher speeds or during more severe impacts. Still better to have a piece of padding between you and the ground/tree rather than just skull thats for sure


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## OU812

Snowolf, yea I was going to mention that regarding the spine injuries while wearing helmets. I heard about this as well but like you said who knows which side is correct. I also see that some people have this mentality that if they wear a helmet they can go harder and are less likely to be injured. This is the same mentality that people had when SUV's first came out, thinking they were invincible during the first snow fall of the year. Guess which cars ended up first in the ditch. 

I think lower back/tail bone protectors make a lot more sense for beginners and lower intermediates especially than a helmet but then again it depends what riding you do. Like you said in dense trees I'd wear head protection as well.


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## concretepatiolasvega

FreshPrince said:


> buy one that fits instead of a $30 protec skate helmet, like hikeswithdogs says, they have music integration and a plethora of colors and styles. if you can't find one that fits and works with what you're looking for you haven't looked hard enough.
> 
> Pro-tec Helmets
> Capix Snow Catalog
> Men's Helmets & Protection | R.E.D. Protection
> Sandbox | Helmets
> Snow Helmets : Bern
> 
> stupid not to wear one by claiming they're uncomfortable


you forgot one Bern Helmets


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## Oldman

concretepatiolasvega said:


> you forgot one Bern Helmets


Nice work on putting life into a thread that has been dead for almost 10 years.


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## 16gkid

Never forget Snowolf had the most epic rage quit on sbf, dude scorched earth all of his posts 😆😆


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