# Adjusting to positive stance



## MrDavey2Shoes (Mar 5, 2018)

Try +24 +6 I find it to be very versatile. I can land switch no problem (well no more problem than usual lol). I dont notice the board every slipping out. But I rarely flatbase, even traversing flats its best to engage an edge...


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## supern00b (Jan 27, 2020)

MrDavey2Shoes said:


> Try +24 +6 I find it to be very versatile. I can land switch no problem (well no more problem than usual lol). I dont notice the board every slipping out. But I rarely flatbase, even traversing flats its best to engage an edge...


Do you find that bending your knees feels way different? Bending knees with duck stance feels akin to a sumo squat, whereas bending knees in a forward stance feels more like kneeling, with the majority of my weight on my back foot.


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## MrDavey2Shoes (Mar 5, 2018)

Yes. Hop on into the “deep carving method” thread started by Kijima. There’s a bunch of us talking about this over there.


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## supern00b (Jan 27, 2020)

MrDavey2Shoes said:


> Yes. Hop on into the “deep carving method” thread started by Kijima. There’s a bunch of us talking about this over there.


Guess I gotta reread that thread; thanks for the guidance!


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## Kijima (Mar 3, 2019)

When you change the rear binding to a forward angle you should focus on your hips. Note how the angle of your hips changes as your back foot angle changes, try to imitate your original hip position with your new foot position. 
Usually pushing your front hip toward your toe edge will square you up again but once you ride like that for a while it will become automatic. 

You can learn all of this in your living room, I like to hold a broom stick to my hips as I change rear foot angles as it highlights the changes. 

And yes as you squat your weight shifts to the back which is very handy and automates the job of weighting the back of the board. If you move your hips as if you were hula hooping (anti clockwise for natural riders) you will make fast progress.


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## Snowdaddy (Feb 2, 2018)

supern00b said:


> Want to try double positive stance coming from a +12 -3 duck as quickly as possible (i.e., don't want to spend a large portion of the day creeping my stance angles up by 3 degrees over several runs). Any tips?
> 
> I'm mainly curious as to how ++ riders prevent the board from sliding out due to the shoulders and hips being more open. Won't this body position naturally cause the back foot to slip out from beneath you?


Sliding out how?


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## Kijima (Mar 3, 2019)

Snowdaddy said:


> Sliding out how?


My guess is that he stopped shifting weigh rearward when he felt the weight at his rear toe, you have to learn to let your weight pass through to the heel


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## drblast (Feb 28, 2017)

Be sure to adjust your stance width in from what it is duck. A wide ++ stance is very uncomfortable.

You can do this all in your living room. Find a stance and set of angles that feels good when you strap in and bend your knees. 

When you get to the mountain you will find riding forward and carving much, much easier. There's very little learning involved. The learning comes if you want to ride switch or ollie or jump because those things feel weird.


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## supern00b (Jan 27, 2020)

Snowdaddy said:


> Sliding out how?





Kijima said:


> My guess is that he stopped shifting weigh rearward when he felt the weight at his rear toe, you have to learn to let your weight pass through to the heel


I guess it's just me catering to lazy riding, in my normal duck stance.

I was referring to how when in duck stance, the tail starts to slide out when flat basing if my shoulders and hips aren't in alignment with the board, which is generally how I get off the lift, navigate narrow runs/cat tracks. If I'm actively on an edge, then that doesn't happen.

Although, I'm guessing that this "sliding out" is a result of my shoulder/hips opening up, and subsequently pulling my rear leg forward due to them being in a duck stance. This might end up being a non-issue if my legs are already in a ++ stance angle though, which by nature accommodates an open hip/shoulder position.



drblast said:


> Be sure to adjust your stance width in from what it is duck. A wide ++ stance is very uncomfortable.
> 
> You can do this all in your living room. Find a stance and set of angles that feels good when you strap in and bend your knees.
> 
> When you get to the mountain you will find riding forward and carving much, much easier. There's very little learning involved. The learning comes if you want to ride switch or ollie or jump because those things feel weird.


In your experience, how much has your stance narrowed? I'm a 32-33'' inseam.


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## supern00b (Jan 27, 2020)

Also, I noticed that in some videos I've watched (Korua's Y4T and Toy films), ++ carvers get really low, but their asses are super high. Not sure if that's ideal; though it seems that duck stance allows you to get lower by squatting, whereas ++ is feels more naturally like kneeling, and then bending the rest of the way at the hips.


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## freshy (Nov 18, 2009)

Go push around on a skateboard and do some carves in a +/+ stance, will get you a general starting place anyway. I mean I wouldn't suggest +12/-3 for a duck stance but you would have got there after tweaking for a bit.


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## freshy (Nov 18, 2009)

.


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## WigMar (Mar 17, 2019)

supern00b said:


> Although, I'm guessing that this "sliding out" is a result of my shoulder/hips opening up, and subsequently pulling my rear leg forward due to them being in a duck stance. This might end up being a non-issue if my legs are already in a ++ stance angle though, which by nature accommodates an open hip/shoulder position.


Riding with an open shoulder used to be one of my bad habits when I was duck stanced. Now it's just part of my riding. I should have been rocking a ++ stance all along- it's how I grew up skateboarding. I'm probably never going to ride duck again. It always hurt my back knee and my body felt unaligned. All of our bodies are different. Play around and find what works best for you. I still use about the same stance width that I used to; maybe I should narrow it? Whatever, I'm more comfortable on my board than I've ever been.


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## WigMar (Mar 17, 2019)

supern00b said:


> Also, I noticed that in some videos I've watched (Korua's Y4T and Toy films), ++ carvers get really low, but their asses are super high. Not sure if that's ideal; though it seems that duck stance allows you to get lower by squatting, whereas ++ is feels more naturally like kneeling, and then bending the rest of the way at the hips.


It's pretty easy to do that style of toe turn with a ++ stance. You've just got to get low instead of petting the dog. I feel like it's not nearly as stylish as riders who can get their hips close to the snow on toe side. I've been practicing both styles. Really, the first style just happens pretty naturally, and I need to focus on getting extension in my hips to achieve the latter.


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## supern00b (Jan 27, 2020)

freshy said:


> Go push around on a skateboard and do some carves in a +/+ stance, will get you a general starting place anyway. I mean I wouldn't suggest +12/-3 for a duck stance but you would have got there after tweaking for a bit.


Sorry, meant +15. Edited the OP


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## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

supern00b said:


> Want to try double positive stance coming from a +1215 -3 duck as quickly as possible (i.e., don't want to spend a large portion of the day creeping my stance angles up by 3 degrees over several runs). Any tips?
> 
> I'm mainly curious as to how ++ riders prevent the board from sliding out due to the shoulders and hips being more open. Won't this body position naturally cause the back foot to slip out from beneath you?


For Q1: just go +24 +3 and ride it the whole day. Then go +24/+27 +6 the next time you go out and stick with whichever you like best, or adjust based on what you liked or not from the 1st day. In other words... if you don't want to adjust mid day... just go with a setting that's not too extreme so you can ride it all day.

For Q2: why are you PRE-worried about the back foot "naturally" slipping out for using a ++ stance? Has it happened to you??


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## supern00b (Jan 27, 2020)

F1EA said:


> For Q1: just go +24 +3 and ride it the whole day. Then go +24/+27 +6 the next time you go out and stick with whichever you like best, or adjust based on what you liked or not from the 1st day. In other words... if you don't want to adjust mid day... just go with a setting that's not too extreme so you can ride it all day.
> 
> For Q2: why are you PRE-worried about the back foot "naturally" slipping out for using a ++ stance? Has it happened to you??


Noted.

Regarding Q2, I'm just neurotic I guess. I've caught many edges while learning how to ride w/ duck stance because my shoulders/hips were opening up, thought it'd be the same result when going ++.


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## Myoko (Dec 11, 2018)

Interesting re the stance width needing to be less than riding duck. I ride 1 hole in from the outside and when I tried that facing both feet forward I wasn't a fan and flicked it. Perhaps on a carving day if I ever get snowboarding again I should try closer and feel the difference as I note the boss carvers tend to face both feet forward.


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## Kijima (Mar 3, 2019)

supern00b said:


> I guess it's just me catering to lazy riding, in my normal duck stance.
> 
> I was referring to how when in duck stance, the tail starts to slide out when flat basing if my shoulders and hips aren't in alignment with the board, which is generally how I get off the lift, navigate narrow runs/cat tracks. If I'm actively on an edge, then that doesn't happen.
> 
> ...


Try this, get your front hip toe side and rear hand in your back pocket. I guarentee you will square up and I also bet you get better control when you skate off the lift.


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## Snowdaddy (Feb 2, 2018)

supern00b said:


> I guess it's just me catering to lazy riding, in my normal duck stance.
> 
> I was referring to how when in duck stance, the tail starts to slide out when flat basing if my shoulders and hips aren't in alignment with the board, which is generally how I get off the lift, navigate narrow runs/cat tracks. If I'm actively on an edge, then that doesn't happen.
> 
> Although, I'm guessing that this "sliding out" is a result of my shoulder/hips opening up, and subsequently pulling my rear leg forward due to them being in a duck stance. This might end up being a non-issue if my legs are already in a ++ stance angle though, which by nature accommodates an open hip/shoulder position.


I think it's just a matter of practice and what you are used to. I haven't been riding many seasons but I switched to positive angles my second one. I started with -6 on my rear foot my first season. Now riding with a negative back foot just feels wrong and boring.

In "duck" I have to be conscious about how I stand when flat basing. In positive I have no problem flat basing slow or fast now. For me, flat basing is a lot about having the right knee angles and fore aft weighting. Especially when riding stiffer boards. With duck I stand more on may front foot and align shoulders. With positive it's more about an even pressure and using my knees to control the edges. The hips will follow the knees.


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## MrDavey2Shoes (Mar 5, 2018)

Weight your front foot and you'll be fine. Weighting your front foot resolves 96.4% of all issues in snowboarding.


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## supern00b (Jan 27, 2020)

MrDavey2Shoes said:


> Weight your front foot and you'll be fine. Weighting your front foot resolves 96.4% of all issues in snowboarding.


Yea, I've been weighing my front foot, to a fault. Glad to hear that it has the same effect for ++ riding.


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## Seppuccu (Dec 4, 2012)

You havent told us how wide your duck stance is. I'm a 34" inseam and I've tried 58-64 cm stance width for duck stance. I was most comfortable going a 60-62 cm width. Now I usually ride +21-24/+6-3 and I've settled for 59 cm stance width.


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## ZeMax (Feb 21, 2014)

Seppuccu said:


> You havent told us how wide your duck stance is. I'm a 34" inseam and I've tried 58-64 cm stance width for duck stance. I was most comfortable going a 60-62 cm width. Now I usually ride +21-24/+6-3 and I've settled for 59 cm stance width.


34 inseam riding 24/+6 and 59 cm width as well. Funny how that plays out eh ?


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## Seppuccu (Dec 4, 2012)

ZeMax said:


> 34 inseam riding 24/+6 and 59 cm width as well. Funny how that plays out eh ?


Hey, we might be on to something!


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## ridethecliche (Feb 27, 2019)

supern00b said:


> Won't this body position naturally cause the back foot to slip out from beneath you?


This feels like a weird question.
I started off riding duck at +/-15. When I got a directional board I moved it to like 21/-9. I've mostly kept that progression going. Went +27/+6 with the korua basically the first time I rode it and it felt pretty natural. 

I'm at 24/-6 with my yup right now and I'm debating swapping it over to double positive before I hit the hill next time.
My only hesitation is that I use the Yup for the trees and I'm wondering if it's going to make it a bit harder to ride switch for a few seconds at a time when necessary, but I never found that to be an issue with the korua. Changing the rear angle to positive allows you to put your weight on the front foot and kick out the rear pretty aggressively so your heel side turns can be much much much tighter if you're in a bind. That's not how most +/+ riders ride from what I've seen, but I spent an entire day riding the korua in ungroomed mogul'ed side-hit territory and it was awesome.


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## supern00b (Jan 27, 2020)

So I rode my korua @ 55cm wide, +30 +9 and it felt great. Still need to work on my technique, because dropping my ass heelside feels awkward as hell.


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## ridethecliche (Feb 27, 2019)

supern00b said:


> So I rode my korua @ 55cm wide, +30 +9 and it felt great. Still need to work on my technique, because dropping my ass heelside still feels awkward as hell.


Just channel snoop and


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## WigMar (Mar 17, 2019)

I still like ++ in the trees. You can ride switch out of tight spots just fine at less aggressive ++ angles. I like less angle with more splay for trees and freeride, and more angle with less splay for hard carving.


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## supern00b (Jan 27, 2020)

WigMar said:


> I still like ++ in the trees. You can ride switch out of tight spots just fine at less aggressive ++ angles. I like less angle with more splay for trees and freeride, and more angle with less splay for hard carving.


Could you share some settings? Just curious


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## WigMar (Mar 17, 2019)

supern00b said:


> Could you share some settings? Just curious


My carving board is set up at 39, 27 right now. I've been liking 12 degrees of splay for carving. 

Last season I was freeriding at 27, 6. This season I've bumped it up to 33, 12. Looks like I like 21 degrees of splay for freeriding.


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## supern00b (Jan 27, 2020)

WigMar said:


> My carving board is set up at 39, 27 right now. I've been liking 12 degrees of splay for carving.
> 
> Last season I was freeriding at 27, 6. This season I've bumped it up to 33, 12. Looks like I like 21 degrees of splay for freeriding.


How's your width?


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## WigMar (Mar 17, 2019)

I'm not very picky about the width. My widths are different on different boards, and I don't measure it. I start at reference and see how that feels. I know my widest width is on my biggest powder board, and my narrowest stance is on my carving board.


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