# black board experiment ft Sage Kotsenburg



## jae (Nov 27, 2015)

SNOWBOARDER Blackboard Experiment - 2017 Snowboard Test

by snowboarder.com 

can you identify any of the black boards just by the brief silhouette in the background? cool shit, grading seems pretty tough.


----------



## linvillegorge (Jul 6, 2009)

Doesn't really work too well with Burton and their EST channel.


----------



## jae (Nov 27, 2015)

linvillegorge said:


> Doesn't really work too well with Burton and their EST channel.


it can be an endeavor!


----------



## jae (Nov 27, 2015)

3 looks like the type two, 4 is probably the custom though.. lol


----------



## Alonzo (Dec 30, 2015)

It is an indictment of how fucked the industry is right now that that dude doesn't have a board sponsor. Madness.


----------



## jae (Nov 27, 2015)

Alonzo said:


> It is an indictment of how fucked the industry is right now that that dude doesn't have a board sponsor. Madness.


they can be asking for too much.. there are lots of pros without board sponsers. Andreas Wiig, Max Parrot, lago (before he created his own) come to mind. Doesn't help that nike/quiksilver pulled out. Now K2/Ride/Volkl are going on a fire sale... with so many sponsorless riders, it's easier for companies to have their pick without paying as much.


----------



## Alonzo (Dec 30, 2015)

Sad times.

The black board concept is cool though.


----------



## MMSlasher (Mar 18, 2016)

I'm gonna guess that # 10 is one of the Gnu asym boards, maybe space case or riders choice. These are really hard to guess since we don't get a close up of each board, but I think @jae you are right with #3 . #8 could be a ride Berzerker. I look forward to seeing what they all are.


----------



## robotfood99 (Mar 19, 2016)

Transworld did something like this with the goodwood test for a season or two. They masked the boards' topsheets and claimed it eliminated brand bias. Didn't last long because, if I remember correctly, the bases were not blanked out and made the no-bias idea a joke. 

This experiment is off to a better start. Should be interesting reads.


----------



## linvillegorge (Jul 6, 2009)

The bottom line is that there are very few riders out there who command significant sponsorship money from smart companies. Sponsoring a rider only makes sense if the recognition and association is worth the investment for the business. How many snowboarders are recognizable to the guy who rides maybe ten times a year max? Even if the guy recognizes the name, does the association impact a purchasing decision for him? Sage won a fucking Olympic gold medal and 99% of Americans wouldn't recognize his name. I'd be willing to bet 75% of the people rising the lifts on a given day wouldn't either.

Sad, but true. He's a great rider, but he's not a needle mover for a company.


----------



## BurtonAvenger (Aug 14, 2007)

Pros don't sell snowboards. Pro models don't sell. Who gives a fuck if they're smart they either figure out how to market themselves and make money or they disappear. Sage is a great rider but unfortunately what's he done outside the Olympics really?

Also this test made me laugh. Great he rode a bunch of decks, unfortunately the everyman does not ride anywhere near that level. 

I pretty much looked at the decks and figured out the models right off the bat.


----------



## robotfood99 (Mar 19, 2016)

Everyman is not nearly as experienced with as many boards as you BA. 

Its a magazine feature so a little intrigue might work to generate some clicks. 

I'll check to see if he says anything negative about any of them before the reveal. Not holding my breath tho.


----------



## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

On Pros not having board sponsors. Well, pros don't really sell boards anymore like they used to. Sage is actually one of the few that could, but at his level he either needs a brand that will build him exactly what he wants, or he's better off not having a sponsor and picking whatever he wants and just having it be unbranded. Same thing with Chaz for a while. He had complete control over what he rode cause it didn't have to sell.

Second big thing, there are too many pros and not enough dollars. Everybody is full. Noone has another 75k-150k laying around for guys like Seb or Sage. Max was offered a 6 figure deal with Monster, he wanted more, they said no.


Transworlds old goodwood was completely blank if I remember right. Base and top. I don't know if that mattered as it could have just been a way to appear more legitimate despite just being add dollars like it is now.


----------



## robotfood99 (Mar 19, 2016)

Nivek said:


> Transworlds old goodwood was completely blank if I remember right. Base and top. I don't know if that mattered as it could have just been a way to appear more legitimate despite just being add dollars like it is now.



I think one season on some boards at least the bases weren't blank and they got shat on for it, the next year they dropped it. All a bit hazy now. But yes I do remember at one point they were totally blank.


----------



## basser (Sep 18, 2015)

jae said:


> they can be asking for too much.. there are lots of pros without board sponsers. Andreas Wiig, Max Parrot, lago (before he created his own) come to mind. Doesn't help that nike/quiksilver pulled out. Now K2/Ride/Volkl are going on a fire sale... with so many sponsorless riders, it's easier for companies to have their pick without paying as much.


Max Parrot just recently got a board sponsor. It is "nobaday". Anyone ever heard of them?


----------



## GDimac (Nov 19, 2015)

BurtonAvenger said:


> Also this test made me laugh. Great he rode a bunch of decks, unfortunately the everyman does not ride anywhere near that level.
> 
> I pretty much looked at the decks and figured out the models right off the bat.


Was curious to see what you & Nivek thought about this. Also, since he is at the elite level of riding, can't it also be said that his feedback can be taken a bit more seriously as he would know more than the avg rider? And on top of that, with less bias as he is without a board sponsor?


----------



## Snow Hound (Jul 21, 2012)

Has anyone watched these yet? He seems to give a balanced and honest appraisal with 5&6s out of 10 etc until he gets to the summary and says everything is great. So far - I've watched 3. It looks like he guessed a couple but seemed genuinely surprised by the Proto.

Sent from my ONE E1001 using Tapatalk


----------



## GDimac (Nov 19, 2015)

Snow Hound said:


> Has anyone watched these yet? He seems to give a balanced and honest appraisal with 5&6s out of 10 etc until he gets to the summary and says everything is great. So far - I've watched 3. It looks like he guessed a couple but seemed genuinely surprised by the Proto.
> 
> Sent from my ONE E1001 using Tapatalk


Yeah I watched all 3 also. Thought same thing. That's why I'm curious to see what BA & Nivek think of Sage's feedback.


----------



## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

So far I've actually had a few moments of surprise with some of the details he's mentioned. 

For me, I haven't ridden a Media, it's been years since I've been on a Funkink, and I haven't been on a Type Two. So I don't have a ton of direct criticism to his conclusions yet. But honestly it seems like it's boiling down to "does Sage like___" vs being a true review of is this board good, why is it good, or why is it bad. That's what separates a good reviewer and a good rider. There are pros that spend a lot of time dialing in nuances of their decks, but still that limits the feedback to being tailored to a specific rider and ride style. A true reviewer can assess outside of bias. I have definitely ridden boards I hated, but was fully committed to their build and worth. I know when something is good, but just not for me. Does Sage? 

I'll be more interested if anything gets a genuinely bad score. And I'm looking forward to him riding something I have more experience with.


----------



## linvillegorge (Jul 6, 2009)

Nivek said:


> So far I've actually had a few moments of surprise with some of the details he's mentioned.
> 
> For me, I haven't ridden a Media, it's been years since I've been on a Funkink, and I haven't been on a Type Two. So I don't have a ton of direct criticism to his conclusions yet. But honestly it seems like it's boiling down to "does Sage like___" vs being a true review of is this board good, why is it good, or why is it bad. That's what separates a good reviewer and a good rider. There are pros that spend a lot of time dialing in nuances of their decks, but still that limits the feedback to being tailored to a specific rider and ride style. *A true reviewer can assess outside of bias. *I have definitely ridden boards I hated, but was fully committed to their build and worth. I know when something is good, but just not for me. Does Sage?
> 
> I'll be more interested if anything gets a genuinely bad score. And I'm looking forward to him riding something I have more experience with.


But everything Never Summer makes is shit, right?


----------



## freshy (Nov 18, 2009)

basser said:


> Max Parrot just recently got a board sponsor. It is "nobaday". Anyone ever heard of them?


Yes they are owned by Noah Body.


----------



## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

linvillegorge said:


> But everything Never Summer makes is shit, right?


I have yet to prove myself wrong. But I have shown to adjust my opinion when presented with contrary personal experience. It happened with Union when the Contact Pro went mini disc. I was convinced it was gonna be loose and shifty. Turns out it made the binding better and I recommended it a fair amount. Which in itself says something that I'm recommending a Union at all. I rode the new Atlas last year. While there are still some issues with some build aspects spanning the whole line, I dont have a problem recomending the Atlas, it rode really well. If you dig far enough I was not a fan at all of Yes towards the beginning. The cores and cambers didn't match, and they had really weird pop. Now I recommend them all the time. I've even here and there recommended Mervin. The Hot Knife is a decent deck, and I like their pow shapes. 

I have yet to be on a Never Summer that I thought was more than alright. Until I do, my opinion stands. 

My views on the brand are what they are. 

I'll admit that I'm a little more aggressive with my opinion here, fanboys are frustrating.


----------



## linvillegorge (Jul 6, 2009)

I was just giving you shit. You gotta get on some of their enhanced RC stuff if you haven't already. The more aggressive camber in the tips fixed most of the issues I had with their previous boards.

Unapologetic NS, Capita, and Flux fanboy here. After I sell this Rome Notch swallowtail, I won't have a single board that isn't NS or Capita (other than my original board that no longer see actual action these days) and other than a pair of Malavitas, all my bindings are Flux. Just gave up on other stuff. Seems like I always end up disappointed.


----------



## BurtonAvenger (Aug 14, 2007)

GDimac said:


> Was curious to see what you & Nivek thought about this. Also, since he is at the elite level of riding, can't it also be said that his feedback can be taken a bit more seriously as he would know more than the avg rider? And on top of that, with less bias as he is without a board sponsor?


Haven't watched the videos yet so can't comment on what he's saying. 

But here's what I do know from dealing with Pros and dealing with marketing/board designers. Pros know what they like but that is usually not what the general public needs. Marketing/board designers usually find the real middle ground. 

Some pros do know more than the average rider but sadly most are just like "it rides good, I had fun" and that's that. Hell most couldn't even sell their sponsors product if you dropped them on a sales floor. This is why I think shop employees that actually give a shit and ride a lot of product matter. They know how to sell the product and they know why the product works. 

There's two ways of doing reviews. Giving the why you personally liked and disliked it or looking at who would like or dislike it. The problem is most people side with their personal biases instead of putting them aside.


----------



## GDimac (Nov 19, 2015)

BurtonAvenger said:


> Haven't watched the videos yet so can't comment on what he's saying.
> 
> But here's what I do know from dealing with Pros and dealing with marketing/board designers. Pros know what they like but that is usually not what the general public needs. Marketing/board designers usually find the real middle ground.
> 
> ...



Ahh thanks for clarifying. That makes a lot of sense.

Side note, would you ever consider adding video to your reviews in the near future? I know it's prob a lot more work for you, but think it would be the cherry on top for your already solid reviews. Was just wondering what your thoughts were with that, tho I'm sure you've been asked this on numerous occasions.


----------



## ekb18c (Mar 11, 2013)

I for one dont want him to see his ugly mug in any more videos. Every time I see one of his vids I want to take a scissor and stab both of my eyes.

Yet I keep going back.


----------



## BurtonAvenger (Aug 14, 2007)

GDimac said:


> Ahh thanks for clarifying. That makes a lot of sense.
> 
> Side note, would you ever consider adding video to your reviews in the near future? I know it's prob a lot more work for you, but think it would be the cherry on top for your already solid reviews. Was just wondering what your thoughts were with that, tho I'm sure you've been asked this on numerous occasions.


There's some stuff in the works right now that should satiate what you're looking for. I just moved into a new spot that is about double the size of my last spot so we're setting up the studio right now and getting everything situated. We're also in pre-production for a new longer format show that would be somewhere between the in studio segments of Top Gear (UK not that horrible U.S. version) and The View for snowboarders. 



ekb18c said:


> I for one dont want him to see his ugly mug in any more videos. Every time I see one of his vids I want to take a scissor and stab both of my eyes.
> 
> Yet I keep going back.


Why do people even watch that show? WHY? Episode 30 coming soon.


----------



## Snow Hound (Jul 21, 2012)

I'll take a biased but honest review over regurgitated marketing spiel any day. Plus I doubt there's such thing as a totally unbiased review - opinions are like arseholes - everybody's got one. 

Sent from my ONE E1001 using Tapatalk


----------



## linvillegorge (Jul 6, 2009)

Snow Hound said:


> I'll take a biased but honest review over regurgitated marketing spiel any day. Plus I doubt there's such thing as a totally unbiased review - opinions are like arseholes - everybody's got one.
> 
> Sent from my ONE E1001 using Tapatalk


Yep, everyone has inherent bias. I think it's a cool concept and props to the companies that stepped up and provided a board for it.


----------



## raffertyk2 (Dec 16, 2014)

BurtonAvenger said:


> Why do people even watch that show? WHY? Episode 30 coming soon.


Nice shameless plug 

The show is like a trainwreck you can't look away!! The same reason I love the edits by icecoast kills shit there is no great riding in those videos but it is just so dumb it is funny.


----------



## F1EA (Oct 25, 2013)

I don't really care what pros ride, but I do try to buy pro model stuff whenever I can. 

Pros dont realll snowboards, but they develop the sport. And this is the big fail in the industry since big money got involved. Nobody cares about the sport.... they care about selling boards. Yeah there's tons of marketting schemes where you can turn more profit by not having "pros" or sponsored riders or cutting off a certain part of the program. These schemes are ussually guided by some dude in a clip-on tie showing a made-up $$ trend chart to a group of execs. And they buy it because.. moar $. Fair to them. Money is good. But... I'll buy from the other guy whenever I can. Thanks.

Also, reviews suck. Everyone has bias. And almost everyone has an economic interest tied to their opinion, which is.... worse than bias. Maybe that's why I'm generally fine even with the Good ride reviews. I don't care anyways.... I'll still try something and decide for myself instead. Or buy something just for the fuck of it and accept if it was a mistake. Like those damn 10.5 boots hahahahaha never again.


----------



## linvillegorge (Jul 6, 2009)

Same here. It's why I pretty much refuse to buy anything other than NS and Capita for boards and Flux for bindings at this point. I know what I'm gonna get with those guys. Seems like I always end up disappointed with anything else. I'll hop on anything and everything for a demo and I'm fully open and willing to change my mind, but I always end up gravitating back to those three brands.


----------



## freshy (Nov 18, 2009)

I'm kinda the same way too, but it was more like around the turn of the century I found Lib and and lost any board disappointment so I stuck with them for like the last 15 years. I'm just starting to branch out and buy other boards again. 

I also feel like most types of boards: freestyle, freebie and powder these days are pretty close in engineering, build and quality and most of us would be happy with any of those black boards especially if the company had our stats and know our style and stuff.


----------



## TLN (Sep 7, 2010)

freshy said:


> I also feel like most types of boards: freestyle, freebie and powder these days are pretty close in engineering, build and quality and most of us would be happy with any of those black boards especially if the company had our stats and know our style and stuff.


I agree that boards for the same money are usually at the same level. 
I see many different boards for powder, and that makes sense for me. When paying my own money, I'd just grab whatever is cheaper: NS/Prior/Venture/Donek.


----------



## BurtonAvenger (Aug 14, 2007)

linvillegorge said:


> Same here. It's why I pretty much refuse to buy anything other than NS and Capita for boards and Flux for bindings at this point. I know what I'm gonna get with those guys. Seems like I always end up disappointed with anything else. I'll hop on anything and everything for a demo and I'm fully open and willing to change my mind, but I always end up gravitating back to those three brands.


So now that Capita has its own factory and is making DC, Niche, Bataleon/Lobster, IPP, Dinosaurs Will Die, and sharing a lot of tech/molds would you try those? Serious question.


----------



## linvillegorge (Jul 6, 2009)

BurtonAvenger said:


> So now that Capita has its own factory and is making DC, Niche, Bataleon/Lobster, IPP, Dinosaurs Will Die, and sharing a lot of tech/molds would you try those? Serious question.


If I come across them in a demo day, sure.


----------



## jae (Nov 27, 2015)

really enjoyed this series of posts. no idea how he scores these things as it seemed arbitrary in each category, but damn the TRS and Westmark were shitted on.

dc media blitz: The Blackboard Experiment 2016 - Board 1: DC Media Blitz Reviewed
batalleon fun.kink: The Blackboard Experiment - Board 2: 2017 Bataleon Fun.Kink Reviewed
never summer proto T2:The Blackboard Experiment 2016 - Board 3: Never Summer Proto Type 2 Reviewed
burton custom twin: The Blackboard Experiment 2017 Snowboard Test with Sage Kotsenburg: 2017 Burton Custom Twin Reviewed
ride burnout: The Blackboard Experiment 2017 Snowboard Test with Sage Kotsenburg: 2017 Ride Burnout Twin Reviewed
smokin hooligan: The Blackboard Experiment - 2017 Snowboard Test with Sage Kotsenburg: 2017 Smokin Hooligan Reviewed
arbor westmark: The Blackboard Experiment 2017 Snowboard Test with Sage Kotsenburg: 2017 Arbor Westmark Reviewed
salomon huck knife: The Blackboard Experiment - 2017 Snowboard Test with Sage Kotsenburg: 2017 Salomon Huck Knife Reviewed
capita DoA: The Blackboard Experiment 2017 Snowboard Test with Sage Kotsenburg: 2017 CAPiTA Defenders of Awesome Reviewed
lib TRS: The Blackboard Experiment 2017 Snowboard Test with Sage Kotsenburg: 2017 Lib Tech TRS Reviewed

any of these you agree/disagree with? of course riders all ride different and most of us can't do 1620 japans airs... but I'm pretty sure you guys can judge at least how a board carves. 

I think if they were to continue this series, board makers should know who the rider is... but I can see that as another can of worms.

I'm guessing he really wants to sign with burton or salomon. >


----------



## robotfood99 (Mar 19, 2016)

Lib's horsepower construction never felt like an upgrade to the original except the slight weight saving. With FP as the high-end option, they should have kept the original (and its price) and killed off the horse. 

Yeah its crazy that an Olympic gold medalist doesn't have a primary equipment sponsor. I get that the Olympics is a dirty word in snowboarding but still.


----------



## SNW_GHST (Jul 5, 2016)

robotfood99 said:


> Yeah its crazy that an Olympic gold medalist doesn't have a primary equipment sponsor. I get that the Olympics is a dirty word in snowboarding but still.


Maybe he should team up with Scotty Lago and create a new brand with a cooler name...


----------



## robotfood99 (Mar 19, 2016)

SNW_GHST said:


> Maybe he should team up with Scotty Lago and create a new brand with a cooler name...




I got it.. SAGO! :/


----------



## linvillegorge (Jul 6, 2009)

I feel slightly vindicated for shitting on the TRS for years. That isn't a good snowboard.


----------



## SGboarder (Jun 24, 2012)

linvillegorge said:


> I feel slightly vindicated for shitting on the TRS for years. That isn't a good snowboard.


It's a good board all right. Just not the all-conquering 'great at everything' board, like it is made out to be.
To be fair that also applies to many other decks.


----------



## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

Seeing all the videos says a couple things to me. Sage is good at figuring out what HE likes. And there's just some weird inconsistencies going on. The Westmark Camber is certainly not as stiff as he seems to make it, and is in all my experience softer than the Custom and DOA and similar to the Huchknife. He talked about the TRS being washy and the Proto being super playful but never mentions the camber profile maybe having something to do with it. Arbors System camber is driven different than traditional camber, which he seems to not be able to adjust to. Drive and steer system camber at your feet and it's very precise.

Basically, Sage is a sick rider and one I enjoy watching what he does, but a reviewer he is not.


----------



## linvillegorge (Jul 6, 2009)

SGboarder said:


> It's a good board all right. Just not the all-conquering 'great at everything' board, like it is made out to be.
> To be fair that also applies to many other decks.


When I say it isn't a good board, I mean in terms of the price point. That thing doesn't ride like a $600 snowboard. You can find boards with that type of ride for far less money. To me, the TRS basically feels like a CRC version of the Rossi Templar. The Templar is a $400 board. The Rossi Templar isn't a great board, but it's appropriately priced for what it is.


----------



## robotfood99 (Mar 19, 2016)

Nivek said:


> He talked about the TRS being washy and the Proto being super playful but never mentions the camber profile maybe having something to do with it.


Not on video but he talks about it in text - 


First of all, I’ve never been that big of a fan of reverse camber, but I was going to come into this unbiased. This snowboard seemed really soft and it had reverse camber so it kind of got away from me sometimes but that’s when the serrated edges counteracted that feeling. Once I was fully in my turn the edges would really lock in but transferring over to the other edge felt loose and slidey. - Sage's first impression of the Lib Tech TRS​
I thought the combo of short length (154) and the HP construction might also be the culprit. :dunno:


----------



## Horhey Gonzalas (Sep 27, 2012)

*Like em*

I thought Sage and Snowboarder did a really good job on these.


----------



## GDimac (Nov 19, 2015)

jae said:


> really enjoyed this series of posts.
> 
> The Blackboard Experiment 2017 Snowboard Test with Sage Kotsenburg: 2017 Burton Custom Twin Reviewed
> 
> I'm guessing he really wants to sign with burton or salomon.


I owned the Custom Twin last season and he's pretty spot on. This board was awesome and a sick board for carving & jumps, the 2 main thing I love doing when I ride. Perfect amount of stiffness for my own personal preferences. Prob my fave board to date still. 

And I agree, I enjoyed this series as well and thought Sage seemed pretty genuine with each review and wasn't shy to give low #'s. I respected that. But that's just my 2 cents. And ya its a bit surprising that he hasn't been picked up. But BA did make some eye opening points on why that is the case tho so ya.


----------

