# Neversummer Lotus: My Wife Hated It :(



## binarypie (Nov 29, 2009)

DexterMichigan said:


> :dunno:
> 
> What do you guys think?
> 
> ...


For the sake of saving money ask her to give it a little more time while she adjusts to the new flex pattern.

That being said.

If you do end up replacing it you should buy from a store that has a no questions asked return policy so next time you can just exchange. Backcountry.com and REI both have this type of policy. Although, it does mean in some cases you will pay more up front.


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## killclimbz (Aug 10, 2007)

That is funny. Hybrid boards do ride different than cambered decks. What you said at speed is true. It takes a little more effort. I find that the RC boards carve fine, but they are different no doubt. Generally speaking the hybrid boards are easier to turn and of course much better in powder. So maybe you want to have her give it a try on a powder day. Also, maybe she won't care for the hybrid profile. Some people just don't like to adjust from what they've learned. That is fine too. 

Bummer if she doesn't like or want the board. At least Neversummer's hold decent value and you should be able to sell it for a decent price. 

I also think this also goes to prove there is no one board for everyone.


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## P.Swayze (Aug 5, 2011)

binarypie said:


> If you do end up replacing it you should buy from a store that has a no questions asked return policy so next time you can just exchange. Backcountry.com and REI both have this type of policy. Although, it does mean in some cases you will pay more up front.



This. 

Go to your local snowboard shop and check out some boards in person. You can get some expert advise from professionals as well as hand flex the boards and get a better feel for what you are purchasing in person. 

If you do not have a local Shop nearby, I would recommend the CAPiTA Saturnia 152 - Its a softer cambered twin that is very easy and fun to ride for ladies-

My Girlfriend has also ridden the Outdoor Living 152 which is a zero camber twin and LOVES it- It is a men's board but has a soft flex and a waist width that will accomidate her size 10 boot-


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## HeroForADay (Feb 26, 2012)

I'd probably have her give it another shot, and maybe on better or just different snow. My wife learned on a very similar, and fairly archaic Burton that was stiff as hell, and fully cambered, so that's all she knew. More recently I got her into using a mixed RC profile, and she ended up going with something pretty soft, and full rocker (Burton Feather), and now she loves it for her riding. 

Her and I ride quite differently, so once she got a board that was more for cruising the hill at slower speeds, and typically a much less grade, she found that it was difficult to adjust to the float and playfulness of something that wasn't made out of a 2x4.


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## BigmountainVMD (Oct 9, 2011)

Backcountry.com/dogfunk.com are the way to go.

It is certainly different than camber, but those boards still hold an edge quite well.

She probably would have liked it more in the powder.

On the other hand, I have a friend that just bought his wife the Lotus and she is not a fan. She comes from riding Rome camber boards only. But yeah, she won a women's national BX and slopestyle comp (for the 40+ age group) out at Copper Mtn., and kept on saying how the Lotus felt weird even though she got it specifically for BX.


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## mixie (Mar 29, 2011)

DexterMichigan said:


> :dunno:
> What do you guys think?


I demoed a Lotus last season and rode it on a pretty deep pow day at June Mountain. Probably 2 feet? One of the few days it actually dumped last season!! I did not really review it. While I liked it I wasn't _in love_ and didn't buy it (I bought a Roxy Envi) 

While it handled phenomenally in the powder I found it lacking in a few other ares. First one being that I thought it was a touch too soft. 



DexterMichigan said:


> She road the Lotus for about 3 hours, decided she couldn't find an edge on the hybrid rocker board


I didn't find that to be a problem, but I spent _very little_ time with it on groomers and was mostly in thigh deep pow on moderatly steep tree runs. West coast single blacks I guess you could say? Non rated off piste runs I guess you could call them? I dunno...Fun is what I call them  it did *very well* in those conditions as well as handling chopped up tracked out pow. Rode over crud like a dream. However that dampness made it less fun to ride in non pow conditions. It had Z E R O 'pop' and just felt lifeless over all. 



DexterMichigan said:


> She thought it got squirrly at high speeds when trying to hold edges or carving. This sounds like a fairly common reaction.


Yup. Me too. I did not feel super confident with it in speeds excess of 30mph. I was riding with gps as I often do. My upper limit comfort zone is about 45mph and I regularly cruise around at 30-35mph. Im hoping to get over that and hit 50mph this year...anyway

My Roxy feels rock solid at high speed. Its the fear that holds me back when I start hitting 45+mph *not* the board. On the Lotus anything over 30 and felt kinda sketchy and I had a very bad crash on a groomer going about 35ish. Board just dumped me and I don't even know what happened. I was riding along down a single black groomed run. I never flat base, I always maintain at least a shallow edge, at least at those speeds! So I was crusing along almost back to the chair and I got that "oh shit I think the tail is comin' round" feeling and BAM next thing I knew I was face down in the snow. Thankfully the mountain was totally empty and NO ONE saw me so my ego remained unharmed.... I mean...I didn't cause anyone else to crash :laugh: Well the lifty saw  

The board does like to pick up speed for sure which coupled with the squirllyness is a problem. I was speed checking all over the place and had another bad crash when I hit a lip of pow where a cat track was. I was going W A Y to fast for my ability for hitting jumps and I failed to stick the landing on the groomer...It was low light and I didn't even see the cat track had been cut into the pow until it was way to late to speed check. Had I know there was a big kicker coming up, no WAY Id have been going so fast and man I got _launched_ :dizzy: ....of course that crash was right under the lift line. Ego took a beating on that one for sho....as did the helmet. That could happen on any board, and I can't blame the Lotus.. 



DexterMichigan said:


> So, should I sell this board and get her something else, or convince her to try it again


I dunno...what does _she_ think? 

Personally I'd keep it as a pow deck and buy another board. But i am all for buying gear and you probably won't make much on selling it anyway. 

You might want to pick up a second set of bindings for her too. Then you don't have to move them back and forth. Valentines day is coming up you know! :laugh:


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## DexterMichigan (Feb 18, 2009)

Thanks for the input. I'll try to convince her to give it another shot. I agree completely about the powder. Last year she enjoyed it at Whistler, but we were getting dumped on.

I think she just didn't want to fight to get confident on it when we only had 4 days to ski. Unfortunately, we are flatlanders, so we don't get much time to ski and check out new equipment. Also, there is a complete shortage of knowledgeable local ski shops.

I bought the board from Evo.com. They had a decent return policy, but I don't think 14 months later will make it.

Any thoughts on a more cambered or flatter board to check out that is good for groomers for her?


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## ippy (Mar 11, 2010)

If she doesnt like it, she doesnt like it. She tried it on two different occasions and its not working for her. Shes happier on a camber board. So it goes. Whats this idea she cant make up her mind on it? I havent loved every board ive bought either. Its just the way it goes sometimes. Check out a tech, dont like it, sell it, pick up something else. I really have a feeling (as i often do here) that this is more about neversummer fanboyism than trying to help someone get the right board for them. Some people will like (or LOVE) R+C (i demod the premier the other week and absolutely LOVED it, though honestly the hype turns me off the brand) some people wont. Some people will love their lotus, some people would rather rip it on a lamar. Why on earth would you try and convince her to ride a board she doesnt like when theres boards out there she clearly DOES like. Its clearly the camber profile thats annoying her. This doesnt mean the board is shit or that its poorly designed, it just means for this person she aint enjoying it. I really do feel if it was ANY OTHER BRAND the answer would be "well she enjoys the lamar more, so you know, obviously she should be on the board shes having teh most fun on!"


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## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

Did you mean Forum Holy Moly 2?
Ask her if she wants something else?? Just a thought.

If so, Ride Farrah, Signal Vita, Nitro Fate, YES TDF, Burton Feelgood Camber, Arbor Push, or see if you can find a 2012 K2 Wolfpack.


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## BigmountainVMD (Oct 9, 2011)

It's worth mentioning that something as simple as shifting your weight further forward or back can do a lot for edge hold with the hybrid boards. When you get a new ride, especially something a decade more new than what you are used to, troubleshooting is a needed process to get the riding dynamics down.


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## Treegreen (Mar 16, 2012)

There's a lot of great advice in this thread, but it ultimately comes down to her riding style and the conditions you're normally riding. If she likes to carve and really dig the edges in on icy east coast snow she probably will want a traditional camber deck.

On the other hand, she might find a different brand's hybrid/rocker shape perfectly acceptable. It's totally possible that she might find Magnatraction (or whatever) fixes the edge complaints she had with the Vario sidecut. For example, you might have her demo a Gnu B-Pro and see if she still has the same complaints (Warning: it looks absurd).

If you can swing it I actually second Mixie. If she liked the Lotus in pow keep it for trips and the occasional pow day. Then pick up another camber deck for her everyday cruising/carving/riding. If you can't, sell the Lotus and let her pick out something else she'll be happy on for the majority of your riding.


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## cocolulu (Jan 21, 2011)

Yeah, I went from a camber board to an NS hybrid and felt something similar in the beginning. Mostly it was just that if I threw in a really aggressive carve, the NS wouldn't hold the edge as well and it was easier to sideslip.

I've never had problems with squirreliness though, but my board is a bit oversized for me. 

After awhile though, I got used to it.


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## DexterMichigan (Feb 18, 2009)

All very helpful thoughts. Thanks very much to everyone. I think I'll see if she wants a new board and recommend keeping the Lotus for good powdery days. I don't mind spending the money (I was piggybanking to get myself a modern board, but I too am scared of these modern new-fangled rocker and hybrid boards, so I'll just buy her another one).

I did mean Holy Moly II by Forum, not Lamar (brainfart). Thanks. I'm sure she can get around to riding the Lotus well, but we didn't have a long ski trip and the conditions were all packed powder/corduroy from a lack of snow at Jackson Hole. She just didn't feel like learning the hard way on a short trip.


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## fatbob (Mar 19, 2011)

DexterMichigan said:


> :dunno:
> 
> What do you guys think?
> 
> ...


You say your wife has size 10US size boots? My opinion is that the board is too narrow at just 235mm waist width. Most women's boards have smaller waist widths as women tend to have smaller feet. Likely to feel unstable at speed and likely to loose edge grip through toe/heel drag.

Another reason your wife doesn't get on with the board maybe technique. If she doesn't move her weight along the length of the board she won't drive in and out of the turns. The Never Summer RC tech places camber at either end of the board so you need to move your weight to the nose of the board (fore movement) to drive the start of the turn and towards the tail (aft movement) once the board has crossed the fall line to drive the end of the turn. Get this right and the snap from the tail should set you up for the fore movement to start the next turn.


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## DexterMichigan (Feb 18, 2009)

Hmm, I guess that board does seem a bit narrow. She isn't toe dragging, but she is close to it. She wears a women's US10 boot, which is a men's US9 boot. Not wide, but now narrow either. She said she thinks she would prefer another men's board, but I had figured that was silly with gender specific boards. She is only 115 lbs, so tall and light.


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## fatbob (Mar 19, 2011)

DexterMichigan said:


> Hmm, I guess that board does seem a bit narrow. She isn't toe dragging, but she is close to it. She wears a women's US10 boot, which is a men's US9 boot. Not wide, but now narrow either. She said she thinks she would prefer another men's board, but I had figured that was silly with gender specific boards. She is only 115 lbs, so tall and light.


I think due to foot size she'd be better off on a short men's board. Check waist width though before buying.


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## Leo (Nov 24, 2009)

So she enjoyed the holy moly. It has a real funky camber profile. Size 10 boots, coming from camber, riding big mountains, all on a guys board and enjoying it. Ever thought about just buying her a smaller men's board and forgoing women's specific altogether?

If you stick with women's, look for something stiffer. I suggest taking a look at Ride's lineup. They have plenty of rocker and hybrid options. Any rocker they do have is also much more mellow than most other types out there. Slimewalls stiffen up the board while making it damper as well. All of this sounds up her alley.

The Ride Farrah sounds excellent for her. It's a rocker in the nose, but camber in the rest. She should experience a very similar ride to her old cambered board with the added benefit of a rockered nose for deeper situations.


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## DexterMichigan (Feb 18, 2009)

Cool. Man, I guess I am a good husband, but I tried too hard. She justs wants to pull her old Burton Custom 151 out of the basement. She really liked the Holy Moly II, and that isn't a women's board and was long for her. She is just used to Camber and riding 2x4s. I'll check out that board too. Thanks for all your help.


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## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

fatbob said:


> The Never Summer RC tech places camber at either end of the board so you need to move your weight to the nose of the board (fore movement) to drive the start of the turn and towards the tail (aft movement) once the board has crossed the fall line to drive the end of the turn. Get this right and the snap from the tail should set you up for the fore movement to start the next turn.


Right, yeah that's how you use camber to power through turns. Do that on RC and you'll wash out. Stay centered on RC and use the boards spring and sidecut to power through turns. At the most you can move your weight between your feet, but through it into the tip and you'll loose it.


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## fatbob (Mar 19, 2011)

Nivek said:


> Right, yeah that's how you use camber to power through turns. Do that on RC and you'll wash out. Stay centered on RC and use the boards spring and sidecut to power through turns. At the most you can move your weight between your feet, but through it into the tip and you'll loose it.


Totally disagree. How can you use the board's spring and sidecut if you don't shift your weight? You'll only be using the rockered part of the board's edge which would be the most unstable part. The sidecut starts at the contact points which are obviously towards the tips of the board. You need to move your weight fore and aft to use the whole of the effective edge particularly as the cambered parts are raised due to the rocker in the centre. You certainly need it on steeps or you would be on your ass.


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## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

All of your grip on anything with center rocker is from foot to foot, not your contact pts. Boards like the Nug proved that. Its contact pts are completely blown out, and if you know what you're doing that deck grips just fine. Arbors griptech gives you contact pts under foot, exactly where you need them, frostbite-underfoot, equalizer shifts your control away from the conact pts to your feet, Romes quickgrip puts it just outside your feet. There's a reason NS variogrip focus your control between your feet. Drive into the tip and you take the pressure off your front foot. In doing so, because of the center rocker, you release pressure on the whole front half of your effective edge. So I'll say again, at most you can move your weight from foot to foot, but if you drive into your tip you cut your effective edge in half and at the very least you wont be turning all that hard, and you're more likely to wash out.


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## fatbob (Mar 19, 2011)

I have no knowledge of the boards you mention just the NS boards I've been riding, so I bow down to your superior knowledge of different board tech. You still have to engage the board's edge through some fore and aft or you're simply only using the rocker part of the edge?

What sort of turns are you talking about? Carving you only really need to put pressure on the outsides of the feet when using fore and aft. On steeps you require more dynamic fore and aft which does create wash by it's nature as you start the end of the turn as soon as you cross the fall line.


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## mastershake (Jan 9, 2012)

i learned on a very stiff santa cruz true camber board and rode only it for 4 years and i just bought a reverse camber board that is smaller and softer.

the first day sucked...i felt all out of whack and squirly going slow or fast didn't really matter. my calves were killing me and i just didn't feel comfortable. i was really bummed.

next session and a few rides in and i totally love the board now. just gotta get used to it, its a bit different than camber boards, but eventually you learn to enjoy it. i think you can learn to enjoy any board for that matter.


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## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

fatbob said:


> I have no knowledge of the boards you mention just the NS boards I've been riding, so I bow down to your superior knowledge of different board tech. You still have to engage the board's edge through some fore and aft or you're simply only using the rocker part of the edge?
> 
> What sort of turns are you talking about? Carving you only really need to put pressure on the outsides of the feet when using fore and aft. On steeps you require more dynamic fore and aft which does create wash by it's nature as you start the end of the turn as soon as you cross the fall line.


Its simple, stay centered on RC and you're engaging the whole edge at once. Get outside your feet and you begin decreasing the amount of effective edge you're engaging. The rocker zone on Never Summer in particular stops just where your last insert is. Having the camber after that means you dont have to push your weight all the way into the contact pts like with tradtional camber to properly engage the tips. The camber does it for you when you drive straight into the board under each foot. On top of that, once weighted anything with dominant center rocker has the most edge pressure between your feet. Thats why variogrip puts a straight section right in the middle of the sidecut, thats where you have the most edge pressure. Thwoing your weight around on RC is really just inefficient.


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## fatbob (Mar 19, 2011)

Debate is good as it questions you. Just stood on my board and saw how the board flattened along the length. You say in a previous post about moving weight from foot to foot is that not fore and aft movement? You can't ride centered the whole time, particularly not on steeps.


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## redlude97 (Jan 9, 2008)

fatbob said:


> Debate is good as it questions you. Just stood on my board and saw how the board flattened along the length. You say in a previous post about moving weight from foot to foot is that not fore and aft movement? You can't ride centered the whole time, particularly not on steeps.


You can't ride centered all the time but you shouldn't shift your center of mass past your feet as you were suggesting.


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## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

^^^ That's what I'm sayin.


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## fatbob (Mar 19, 2011)

Think things have got lost in translation here. Movement only needs to be to the outsides of the feet to use fore and aft, like on a diagonal sideslip, not as if you're doing a tail or nose press. Dynamic fore and aft on steeps now that's a different kettle of fish.


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## redlude97 (Jan 9, 2008)

fatbob said:


> Think things have got lost in translation here. Movement only needs to be to the outsides of the feet to use fore and aft, like on a diagonal sideslip, not as if you're doing a tail or nose press. Dynamic fore and aft on steeps now that's a different kettle of fish.


Having ridden camber for 10 years before RC tech, I think I get what you are trying to say, but the point Nivek is making is that with NS RC tech, you can't ride it like camber and drive into the front of the board as much as with camber because even when you do this on camber the rear half of the sidecut still remains engaged, whereas on RC the rear half of the sidecut will disengage doing the same thing. Its hard to describe exactly but there was definitely an adjustment period when I first switched when I was washing out a lot more because I was using excessive fore movement being used to camber.


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## lilysmomdidi (Apr 3, 2014)

*I know I'm late to this post*

Has your wife tried the Lotus anymore? I actually love the lotus and have the 2013 in a 149 but was looking to get it in a 151...if you still have it and she doesn't like it, I might be interested in buying it. Let me know


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## NZRide (Oct 2, 2013)

My wife made change after 15 odd years of riding camber to RC (Lib TRS) last month when we did Northern hemi holiday. First 2 days we had soft snow as had just dumped so was thinking it was OK, but might have been around the third day when we were on groomers she started to have a few complaints and was not feeling comfortable at all. I told her we could buy another board and go back to camber or C3 Mervin which is really camber, but she stubbornly said she would gte it and by the fourth day she finished and said she felt a lot better.
Issues I think were getting a bit squirrelly , not holding firm edge (despite magnetraction) and not great over bumps.
In the last week of the holiday I noticed she was riding at good speed again like the old days, and had by far her best run through the park ever, hitting about 8 jumps in the little park, good air at speed, hitting all the landings.
So upshot is, after some crappy times early on getting used to it, I saw her doing here best riding I've ever seen and feeling full confidence once again.
Now I'm not sure if moving to RC is useful (I'm pretty sure it will give better float in pow than our old boards), and I wouldn't force anyone to stick with it if struggling to make them get used to it, but I am pretty sure now, that anyone with riding experience can get used to and excel at riding different tech board with time. 
It worked in my wifes case (and mine quicker as it happens) so just wanted to let you know that others have been through and experienced the same as you describe and "ridden through it" , but looking back I don't see great need to go through any pain (mental or physical) to force adjustment, camber is good and if she likes it I would just find a good board and grab it. 
p.s my wife also guys boards as larger foot (for a women) and absolutely no troubles with them, don't be frightened of moving to short guys boards (also has the benefit of opening up heaps more board options).


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## freshy (Nov 18, 2009)

That is exactly why I'm a little weary of buying my wife a board. She loves her old Gnu Barret Christy which is pre-magnetraction and pre-banana tech, and I want to get her another Gnu, but I know she won't like any rocker. Maybe she will like the C3 but I'm not sure if she will like the magnetracton. 

Anyway I also suggest getting her something else. Maybe let her pick it so it's not all on you again.


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## DexterMichigan (Feb 18, 2009)

She never did try it again. I sold it this winter for about $225 after about 6 or 8 days of use. She bought a new Burton Custom 151 instead.

BTW, I rode my first ever hybrid board this year in my 2013 Gnu Billygoat 162 C2. I liked it, even on groomers. I am a little jealous that I didn't wait for the 2014 camber dominant C3, but I still had a great time on it. It definitely had less precision than the boards I had for my first 20 years of riding, but was very easy to turn. The thing I noticed the most was a wobbliness (not unstable, just minor wobble under feet). Engineers would call this skate. Even though it was there, it never threw off my ability to remain stable and steer.


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