# "Winterizing" my Yaris



## davidj (May 30, 2011)

I've got a 5spd Toyota Yaris (front wheel drive sedan FWIW). Live in the prairie southwest where there's not much snow, but am planning on taking it up to Colorado on a couple of trips this winter. Just looking to be able to climb the front range (I-70) during a blizzard or snowstorm, if necessary. Would like to avoid chains unless I hear from you all that THAT'S THE WAY TO GO. Coloradans, what's the rules on I-70 about chains/snow tires/4WD in snowy conditions? Do they check closely?

So other than the boarding trips, pretty much drive on dry/wet asphalt and concrete. Snow tires or all seasons? Should I get four, or just for the drive wheels? If snow tires, how quickly do they wear out on regular road conditions, should I change to my original tires as soon as I get back home?

Thanks!


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## snowklinger (Aug 30, 2011)

snow tires work amazing. i bought mine from tire rack, mounted and balanced to $40 black steel rims, for around $550 shipped to my house. the nice and best thing is to have them, throw em on for your trip, and take em off when u get home. they have an outer tread that will wear much faster then normal rubber b/c its made to be soft in cold weather and has other particles like silica in it for grip but not longevity.

snow tires - u get there guaranteed if the road is open.

anything else - maybe/probably, depends more on skill and luck.

having chains isnt a bad idea but if u have snow tires i wouldnt even carry them.


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## davidj (May 30, 2011)

snowklinger said:


> snow tires work amazing. i bought mine from tire rack, mounted and balanced to $40 black steel rims, for around $550 shipped to my house. the nice and best thing is to have them, throw em on for your trip, and take em off when u get home. they have an outer tread that will wear much faster then normal rubber b/c its made to be soft in cold weather and has other particles like silica in it for grip but not longevity.
> 
> snow tires - u get there guaranteed if the road is open.
> 
> ...


Got it, thanks!


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## jimster716 (Feb 11, 2009)

Regardless of snow tires, many mountainous areas still require chains if you don't have a 4WD/AWD vehicle. Check your owners manual to see if there is any information on chains. Example, my 4WD Toyota FJ Cruiser the manual specifically says NOT to chain the front tires. You should be ok with just chaining your drive wheels (front).


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## slyder (Jan 18, 2010)

search and make sure you know how to mount the chains properly if you are going to ues them.
It would be bad if they slipped off and went round & round slapping into the body of your car or you throw them into a snow bank never seeing them again.


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## Argo (Feb 25, 2010)

Colorado chain laws are for commercial vehicles. My wife has a scion tc and I plan on some snowtires for her car. Most likely studded tires. Many people I work with use them from nov - april up here and they last years.


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## Argo (Feb 25, 2010)

More than likely we will both just ride the free local bus the majority of the time lol. When not staying local we will probably take my truck.


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## Qball (Jun 22, 2010)

When chains or traction devices are required, snow tires count as traction devices. Only vehicles over a certain weight are required to have chains.


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## NWBoarder (Jan 10, 2010)

slyder said:


> search and make sure you know how to mount the chains properly if you are going to ues them.
> It would be bad if they slipped off and went round & round slapping into the body of your car or you throw them into a snow bank never seeing them again.


Don't buy the cheapest chains you can find either! This exact scenario is what happened to me last winter in a huge dump. My poor car still has the battle scars. The difference here is that I had them on right, they just fell apart. Oh, and you can't return chains once you've opened them, especially once one is lost in a snow bank somewhere. Needless to say, I bought better chains, and have been problem free ever since.


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## Milo303 (Apr 6, 2009)

I'm a professional semi/fuel hauler down in Denver

If 70 is bad enough that you need chains on your personal, you shouldn't even be on it. 70 goes from bad to impassible in a flash.

The state believe it or not, actually does a pretty decent job of keeping 70 open. For us drivers it's safer than shooting up 80 thru wyoming because 70 rarely shuts, they just put on chain laws. 

If I were you, I wouldn't bother with chains because you have a good chance of causing damage to your vehicle when you drive to fast and break a chain link... That chain will beat the crap out of your car before you can even stop. Chains can also give you a false sense of security, you don't want that.

Just get a nice set (4) of winter tires. Don't bother with studs as they aren't very affective once you drive on dry pavement, and they can cause you to slide and wipe out on wet/rainy roads.

Get winter tires with some nice siping and drive smart.

Rumor has it we won't have a chance to go to fast this season anyways.... Looks like we're going to have pace cars leading us around at 55mph tops, around the tunnel.

My best advice, get a real car. A Yaris doesn't belong in the mountains during the winter.


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## davidj (May 30, 2011)

Thanks for the advice. So no Yaris in the mountains... I'll bring a bigger vehicle with snow tires. Glad to know snow tires do the trick - that's what I was leaning towards anyway.


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## snowklinger (Aug 30, 2011)

your yaris would rock in the winter with snowtires. its light weight makes it easy to stop and if you are in hazardous conditions would handle at 35mph or less better or as well as anything else out there. i drive a honda civic si (lower suspension then a normal civic) and tears it up in the snow!

every time i pass an upside down vehicle on my way to summit county it is a mid size suv, full size pickup or an excursion/tahoe. those guys all think they are driving proper winter vehicles or something...


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## Qball (Jun 22, 2010)

snowklinger said:


> your yaris would rock in the winter with snowtires. its light weight makes it easy to stop and if you are in hazardous conditions would handle at 35mph or less better or as well as anything else out there. i drive a honda civic si (lower suspension then a normal civic) and tears it up in the snow!
> 
> every time i pass an upside down vehicle on my way to summit county it is a mid size suv, full size pickup or an excursion/tahoe. those guys all think they are driving proper winter vehicles or something...


It's more about the driver than the vehicle. Those SUVs aren't upside down because it's an SUV, they're upside down because the driver was likely driving like an idiot.


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## jdang307 (Feb 6, 2011)

Snowolf, you drive out in the West so maybe you can provide some advice? I'm in California so we have similar wet, heavy snow. Chains? Tires?

I plan on picking up a newer Tundra Crew Max. Maybe 4x4, maybe not, not exactly sure yet.


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## aiidoneus (Apr 7, 2011)

Snowolf said:


> This is a retarded argument....:laugh:
> 
> Those pickups and SUV's are in the ditch because they were driven by fucking idiots who don't know how to drive properly in snow and ice. Your Civic would be upside down just as fast if driven by those idiots.
> 
> I have been driving nothing but pickups and SUV's for 30 years now in Montana, Alaska, Idaho and Washington and have never put one in the ditch. Sure, your low civic might corner better than my 4x4 pickup but when there is 18 inches of fresh snow in the Mt. Hood Meadows parking lot, I easily make a hundred bucks pulling cars like yours out to the plowed road.....:cheeky4:


Exactly, learning to drive in the winter is the most important part.


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## snowklinger (Aug 30, 2011)

I wont deny that skill and being an idiot are the main reasons for any problems with driving. However the fact that i see these vehicles in the ditch is not random, i'm pretty sure they are really doing it at a much higher rate than corollas and civics. Obviously my honda could not pull your truck out, obviously the truck could pull me out. The thing is most people do not need most of the capability of the truck, and being in these big, heavy vehicles gives them a sense of overconfidence, so they tail me half way to summit county before wiping out and i get there first anyway. For professional drivers, granted, being in a big ass truck is no doubt a very safe way to drive in the winter....however for the average joe, driving up and down to the slopes in the winter, they and the rest of us would be much better served if they drove a vehicle within their abilities (both the vehicle and the way they drive it). My point is that the concept that those are winter vehicles while others are not is false and is a widely preconceived notion that is no doubt enforced in car dealerships and enjoyed by gas stations.

Hey ill put it out there right now, about a week b4 i put my snow tires on last year we got caught in a storm and i had pretty bald summer tires, went off a pretty curly exit ramp and a super nice dude in his tahoe pulled me out. The whole ordeal was over in like 2 minutes it was pretty fuckin cool.


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## aiidoneus (Apr 7, 2011)

snowklinger said:


> I wont deny that skill and being an idiot are the main reasons for any problems with driving. However the fact that i see these vehicles in the ditch is not random, i'm pretty sure they are really doing it at a much higher rate than corollas and civics. Obviously my honda could not pull your truck out, obviously the truck could pull me out. The thing is most people do not need most of the capability of the truck, and being in these big, heavy vehicles gives them a sense of overconfidence, so they tail me half way to summit county before wiping out and i get there first anyway. For professional drivers, granted, being in a big ass truck is no doubt a very safe way to drive in the winter....however for the average joe, driving up and down to the slopes in the winter, they and the rest of us would be much better served if they drove a vehicle within their abilities (both the vehicle and the way they drive it). My point is that the concept that those are winter vehicles while others are not is false and is a widely preconceived notion that is no doubt enforced in car dealerships and enjoyed by gas stations.
> 
> Hey ill put it out there right now, about a week b4 i put my snow tires on last year we got caught in a storm and i had pretty bald summer tires, went off a pretty curly exit ramp and a super nice dude in his tahoe pulled me out. The whole ordeal was over in like 2 minutes it was pretty fuckin cool.


Take an intro stats class, correlation does not imply causation. Maybe idiots tend to buy SUV's because they think it makes them better drivers and they choose not to actually improve. Corolla/etc. drivers probably do not feel confident enough to drive crazy, so they don't. The real question is it the vehicle or driver? My assumption is the driver. A good driver in a good vehicle is the better of the two choices.

Now, I am not saying 4x4 trucks are the be all. If you think your 4x4 will be better breaking on pure ice ... you are a monkey. If one wheel can lose traction, so can all four 

At the same time, if you think FWD is better then AWD/4WD for wet and snow you are also a monkey.

Correlation does not imply causation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## snowklinger (Aug 30, 2011)

wtf i never said i wasnt a monkey...


:cheeky4:


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## killclimbz (Aug 10, 2007)

A yaris will be fine with snow tires in Colorado. Studded or not is up to you. I rock studded snow tires for the winter. The extra traction on ice is great to have. Haven't had any problem in rain with them, but then again, I don't try to drive at the performance limit either. 

I still recommend having cables or chains. It's pretty rare that Colorado will enforce chains for vehicles, but it is on the books, and I have seen it on some of the lesser passes. Wolf Creek for one. It can happen on 70. Plus they can bail you out in some situations. Not too mention you don't have to spend a boat load on chains you 99.9% probably won't need. Also, put a shovel in your car. Avalanche shovels work best as you can collapse them and they store decently. If you do get stuck in a drift, you can usually dig yourself out with a little effort.


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## jdang307 (Feb 6, 2011)

Awesome. Learned a lot in this thread.


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## Argo (Feb 25, 2010)

Ill take my big ass diesel 4x4 any day. I have yet to have any problem at all.


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## slyder (Jan 18, 2010)

Maybe a bag of tracktion sand and salt. Again not sure you need this up there but it can't hurt to have it just in case.


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## snowklinger (Aug 30, 2011)

Sorry never meant to imply that big rigs are better in snow. I did mean to imply that my civic is as good a winter vehicle for most people as your pickup, and most people who were sold a pickup or suv on the premise that it IS a winter vehicle would be much less hazard to themselves and others if they were in something smaller and lighter with less power. 

I understand what u guys are saying, and i'm not gonna fall into some sort of causation/statistics/wtfever argument. I'm just trying to make basic real world comments about basic real world observations....not every 15 year old with a drivers permit should be driving an escalade 70mph to the mountains in a blizzard is an extreme example. U guys in ur pickup trucks i got no issues with (any consciencious, experienced in the conditions, adult for that matter) unfortunately this only accounts for a small fraction of a ton of traffic. Your 16 yr old daughter or wife who usually drives a z4 now driving the truck to the mountains, yea thats an argument i'm trying to make. 

The fact is that there are a shitload of tourists who never drive in these conditions on the i70 corridor in all sorts of unfit vehicles for the occasion, as well as straight up weekend warriors who have the pedal to the metal in their bigass suvs with no regard to actual driving nuances.

i'm sure there are "flaws" in my logic or something but comeon, you guys got to share some of my observations. if i'm just blind, hell i'm willing to try to look. hell i'm even willing to be wrong, i just think theres a validity to my point.

...and to be fair to my civic, it kicks ass but mostly because i have gotten used to alot of the routes through the mountains, knowing where and when to floor it and downshift makes a big difference, a 6 or 8% slope will slow you down alot more when you arent ready for it.


edit. and to the point of the OP, for someone visiting, who has experience driving their yaris, i would say they would be better off in their yaris with snowtires, rather than driving some other "winter" vehicle that they have no experience driving. The gradation of the slopes and weather are enough challenge as a visitor without adding a completely different, difficult to stop vehicle that you have no experience driving. The snow tires truly make all the difference, and in your own vehicle will put you right at home in a snowstorm.


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## skycdo (Sep 15, 2011)

Also one thing to look at is how many of the cars that were driving off the road into the snow bank actually had snow tires on? Probably none of them. That stat hints to drivers' abilities to make smart decision. I'm not being specific about small passengers cars or trucks/SUVs. It can be either one. People who drive passenger cars think they can get away with normal tires since their cars are small and light and easy to maneuver, WRONG! People who drive 4x4 SUVs or trucks think that their all terrain/season tires and 4x4 will be good enough in the foot of snow on the ground, WRONG! It all comes down to the choices you make and understanding your limits.


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## snowklinger (Aug 30, 2011)

:thumbsup:

word


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## snowklinger (Aug 30, 2011)

> "All four wheel drive does for most people is it gets them 100 yards farther from help!"


qfft

10/char


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## davidj (May 30, 2011)

Snowolf said:


> Along this same theme, a buddy of mine has a favorite saying about four wheel drive.
> 
> "All four wheel drive does for most people is it gets them 100 yards farther from help!"
> 
> Sadly, there is a lot of truth in his perspective!



Hahaha. My brother used to live in upstate NY near Niagara Falls. He had a Saab with snow tires, not the studded kind. One night after skiing he was driving back home. Lake effects were in full force. Snow was blowing horizontally - 40-50MPH crosswinds, almost whiteout condition, and this retard in a 4x4 4Runner was tailgating him. In the rear view mirror my brother could see every time the crosswinds would catch the SUV broadside and tilt the body - from the shift in the headlights. Anyway, he slowed down to the let the guy pass on this 2 lane road.

You know the rest of the story... not long after his tail lights disappeared into the dark, my bro came up on him, stuck in a drift well off the side of the road.


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## davidj (May 30, 2011)

snowklinger said:


> edit. and to the point of the OP, for someone visiting, who has experience driving their yaris, i would say they would be better off in their yaris with snowtires, rather than driving some other "winter" vehicle that they have no experience driving. The gradation of the slopes and weather are enough challenge as a visitor without adding a completely different, difficult to stop vehicle that you have no experience driving. The snow tires truly make all the difference, and in your own vehicle will put you right at home in a snowstorm.


Will keep this in mind, Klinger :thumbsup:.


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## aiidoneus (Apr 7, 2011)

snowklinger said:


> edit. and to the point of the OP, for someone visiting, who has experience driving their yaris, i would say they would be better off in their yaris with snowtires, rather than driving some other "winter" vehicle that they have no experience driving. The gradation of the slopes and weather are enough challenge as a visitor without adding a completely different, difficult to stop vehicle that you have no experience driving. The snow tires truly make all the difference, and in your own vehicle will put you right at home in a snowstorm.


Exactly, experience is the more important factor. 

IMHO:

1. driver experience
2. 4 winter tires
3. vehicle


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## S4Shredr (Oct 23, 2009)

To the OP:

1. Get 4 new snow tires. Like someone mentioned, a spare set of stealies with winters is the most convenient for swapping. NEVER do just the drive wheels, I spun out on a gradual highway corner because of this, fronts held, back slid = 360 and skid marks in my draws. Also studs, will be annoying on dry pavement. You'll want aggressive tires like winterforce's with FWD.
2. Get Chains just in case, they go on easy if you need them.
3. Make sure your wipers are in good condition and your washer fluid is full.
4. Find an empty, snowy, parking lot and do some brake tests, hard corners, etc. so you can see how easily your car will lose traction in the snow. Always leave plent of space from other vehicles.
5. Bring a Shovel and friends to push in case you get snowed in. If you cant get to the hill you will be pissed!!!

Be safe and have fun!

I took a couple road trips to CO from CT in my 94 jetta during college and all of them were a blast!


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## davidj (May 30, 2011)

S4Shredr said:


> To the OP:
> 
> 1. Get 4 new snow tires. Like someone mentioned, a spare set of stealies with winters is the most convenient for swapping. NEVER do just the drive wheels, I spun out on a gradual highway corner because of this, fronts held, back slid = 360 and skid marks in my draws. Also studs, will be annoying on dry pavement. You'll want aggressive tires like winterforce's with FWD.
> 2. Get Chains just in case, they go on easy if you need them.
> ...


Thanks! :thumbsup::thumbsup:


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## IdahoFreshies (Jul 9, 2011)

ya know all of this talk of people seeing 4x4s crash/in the ditch, and i have seen NOBODY tell a story of the regular economy cars they have seen crashed or slid off the road, thats probably because if its bad enough most economy cars cant even realistically drive on the roads, save a few brave folks. One day coming down from the hill i saw 3 cars in a 5 mile stretch crashed and in the snow bank...and not one of them were awd or 4wd. From my experience at least, i have noticed that if someone spends the money on a 4x4, they generally know how to use it and dont do stupid shit. Its always the people that say screw it, im going to risk it and just take their civics out that slide off or crash. But thats just what i have observed. also people from california...the cali people move up here and its their first winter with real snow and ice and they have no clue what to do...so they crash into everything.


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## C.B. (Jan 18, 2011)

This thread has me curious about studded tires, are they way better than non studded?( there not legal in mn) 

I have little experience with snow tires, but i had a pair once and while they handle in regular winter driving conditions better, I was disappointed because they didn't really get me through any deeper snow than the all seasons I had before. 

How bad are the driving conditions to the point you put on chains?


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## snowklinger (Aug 30, 2011)

studded tires used to be "way better", however with modern snow tires, they are not so much better. perhaps on a frozen lake you would see performance difference, and for some vehicles like the CMT passenger vans they are not a bad idea. studs suck when you dont need them too, giving less grip in dry and wet conditions when there is no snow or ice. 

studless winter tires are the way to go for most people. this technology has changed alot over the last decade or so fwiw.


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## IdahoFreshies (Jul 9, 2011)

studs only really help grip on ice. For a 2wd car when to put chains on always varies by condition, but its usually when there is ice, or 4 or more inches of lose snow (also depending on steepness of road). Atleast thats what I have always considered time to put on chains. The road from salt lake to snowbird, alta, and all of thoes ski resorts has different levels of snow gear required for different levels of road conditions. As i remember, Green- any car can get up, Yellow-Cars need snow tires and must carry chains if not 4wd or awd, Red- Must have snow tires and 4wd or snow tires and chains


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## skycdo (Sep 15, 2011)

Save yourself the money and buy decent chains instead of getting your tires studded. Studs wont make a difference if there is a lot of snow on the road, only if it's iced over. Plus they ruin the roads. There are so many people here who drive with studs during the off season is crazy.


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## Tarzanman (Dec 20, 2008)

hardly ever gets stuck in the snow, good at traversing ravines and small ditches.

Gas mileage isn't very good, but you can park it wherever you want without fear of being towed


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## C.B. (Jan 18, 2011)

oh i dont plan on purchasing either chains or studded tires, i was just curious since i have never even seen either one.
I really get around quite well in my acura with all seasons, untill there's 10 or so inches of snow on the roads and at that point i really have no buisness being on the roads in the first place.


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## Ttam (Jan 20, 2010)

God in Cali they are so anal about the chain laws. They put up a chain check (highway 18 only way to bear) make people put on chains if not 4x4. Although 4x4 are supposed to carry chains. If you dont put on your chains there is a chip sitting for you about a mile up waiting to give you a fatty ticket.


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## IdahoFreshies (Jul 9, 2011)

right, so i have a opinion/ preference question for all of you winter driving experts and since we were discussing winter driving here i decided this is as good of a place as any.

so for driving in the snow, when there is a lot of fresh snow, lets say anything more than 6", possibly unplowed, which vehicle do you guys think would do better/be safer to drive in. an 03 awd subaru outback with new ALL SEASON tires, or a 99 2wd ext cab toyota tacoma with at least 300 lbs in the back and snow chains.


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## killclimbz (Aug 10, 2007)

Well if you get much more than 6" on the road, I am guessing you are pretty close to having it closed. Generally speaking the truck will have better clearance and ability to plow through deeper snow. Suby outbacks also have pretty good clearance though and can get through a lot. If it had snow tires, I'd say hands down go with the Suby. From a convenience standpoint the Suby wins, though I'd pack chains in it still.


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## IdahoFreshies (Jul 9, 2011)

road closures are not an issue, up in mccall where brundage is if people want to go somewhere they dam well will, and up to bogus it has only been closed once that i can remember when last year some tards in some econo cars crashed and blocked the road, that was a waste of sitting at the bottom of the road for 3 hours waiting for it to open...but anyway the reason i ask is because I was looking in the subie's owners manual and i said it didn't have clearance for chains, so that was why i was asking. on a normal day with hard pack or a few inches of snow, definitely the subie. it fits more people and its awd so i wont need to deal with chains, however i could care less about putting on chains. But it wont have snow tires, so if the shit got sketchy and there was a good dump over night or it snows all day im thinking i would have more traction and better stopping with chains even on a rwd mini truck.

after watching this video im feeling a whole lot more confident in my mini truck
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eLL7kJR4m0k


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## Argo (Feb 25, 2010)

I would take the truck with 400the lbs and chains over the subaru along with driving skills.


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## caneyhead (Jan 5, 2009)

Blizzaks + 2010 Prius= no problem 

And it gets pretty deep here sometimes. 

My .02$


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