# Bindings with no shortcomings!?



## eli783 (Oct 24, 2012)

Well I've been thinking of getting this year's cartel restricted. I'm pretty much the exact same profile as you. If the shop in my area has last year's vitas I'll probably get those because I do a bit more park then you


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## zk0ot (Nov 9, 2009)

clickers... both of you.. get em


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## phony_stark (Jul 2, 2011)

Union Atlas is my favorite.
If you can't find Unions
Burton Cartels are a good choice.


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## jchaison (Nov 4, 2012)

Vitas are better for the park? I thought they (and the Genesis) were more in the same range for the non-park rider.


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## sureshock (Oct 2, 2012)

Vitas are apparently softer and hence more suited to park/freestyle than the Cartels


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## phony_stark (Jul 2, 2011)

sureshock said:


> Vitas are apparently softer and hence more suited to park/freestyle than the Cartels


They're like a "super park" binding, and have tech that allows you to run your binding a little looser than usual. This year's straps are also more cushiony in comparison to the Cartel's react strap.

You'll be fine on either, really. It's preference.

Nico Muller runs Vitas, and if they're good enough for him, they're probably good enough for you. Same thing with the Union Contact Pro, if they're good enough for Gigi, they're good enough for you.


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## lonerider (Apr 10, 2009)

Bobby said:


> Ok I'm getting a new board which this forum helped me narrow down some good choices. Gotta slap some bindings on it! I'm looking at the Ride Machete and the Never Summer Heritage.
> Right now I have Salomon Dialogue boots size 9 from 2006 that I think I'm fine with unless there is some reason to change. I'm 5'9 160 lbs so looking in the 154-157 range of boards.
> 
> So all that being said, it seems the questions in bindings are comfort, weight, and function. So what are some beast bindings that make sense for me (freeride/all mountains not heavy in that park but i dabble) that have great comfort and strong ratchets that don't get criticized for slipping. Don't want to spend more than necessary just to spend, but want to know what the best are regardless of that.
> ...


How many days have you had on those Salomon Dialogues? 6 years is a long time. I used to permanently crease my Dialogues at the ankle joint in like 20 days (REI would replace them for free)... admitted I was over-tightening them because my heel was too narrow for them (switch to Nitro boots which have a slimmer heel profile and now I only tighten to just-snug).

Bindings... ah well... I did like my Burton C60, in my opinion there were not actually that stiff (I'm 5'9" 150 lbs). Here is me freeriding in them on a NS SL 155 (just so you get an idea of what they can do)






Then here is me dabbling in the park on them.






Actually though... there are not the most comfotable binding (the ankle strap is a little stiff). I switch to CO2 (guy was selling them NIB for 60% off) at the end of last season and they are better (no videos of me riding in them). Unfortunately Burton bindings are pricey.

I had two pairs of Rome bindings (390 and 390 BOSS), they I found them to be too soft for free-riding in my opinion. I've ridden Cartels and they are pretty good (prefer my CO2 though) although some people may not like the highback (I don't mind tall highbacks). Ride CAD and Ride Spi were a bit bulky and heavy to me (only rode them 1-2 runs though).


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## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

sureshock said:


> Vitas are apparently softer and hence more suited to park/freestyle than the Cartels


Just the opposite. Cleared it with one of the reps over the weekend. Despite what the site says, the Cartel is now softer than the Malavita. 

And the Genesis is not meant to fill the hole of the Prophecy by the way. Its not meant as a stiffer all mountain binding. Its a softer high tech binding for those that have shit tons of money and want the cool shit. Usually that guy isn't a great rider and getting all the cool shit usually means a stiff binding, which is beyond their ability. Hence the Genesis, cool shit and soft so it's not beyond the rich new guy.

K2 Company's. No crazy tech to break, just a simple, responsive, damp, and functional binding.


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## duh (Sep 7, 2011)

Flux TT30, $200 

They have comfy straps, durable ratchets and are very adjustable. Lifetime baseplate warranty also. If you prefer it stiffer get the SF45.


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## Sassicaia (Jan 21, 2012)

Nivek said:


> Just the opposite. Cleared it with one of the reps over the weekend. Despite what the site says, the Cartel is now softer than the Malavita.
> 
> And the Genesis is not meant to fill the hole of the Prophecy by the way. Its not meant as a stiffer all mountain binding. Its a softer high tech binding for those that have shit tons of money and want the cool shit. Usually that guy isn't a great rider and getting all the cool shit usually means a stiff binding, which is beyond their ability. Hence the Genesis, cool shit and soft so it's not beyond the rich new guy.
> 
> K2 Company's. No crazy tech to break, just a simple, responsive, damp, and functional binding.


So its a big conspiracy on the Burton site? Why would they list the Cartel as 7, and the Malavita as 6, when its the reverse. Whats the logic behind not listing product information as being accurate?


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## Supra (Jan 11, 2012)

aren't they both 7's? maybe they had to make the malavita highback stiffer to accomodate the heel hammock better? If people ride their straps looser because of the hammock, maybe they need a stiffer highback to offset it.
but whatever, I think both bindings do the same thing


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## Sassicaia (Jan 21, 2012)

Supra said:


> aren't they both 7's? maybe they had to make the malavita highback stiffer to accomodate the heel hammock better? If people ride their straps looser because of the hammock, maybe they need a stiffer highback to offset it.
> but whatever, I think both bindings do the same thing


According to their site.

Restricted Maltiva EST: 7
Maltiva EST: 6
Restricted Cartel EST: 7
Cartel EST: 7

Just for discussion sake they list the Genesis EST as 7.


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## Supra (Jan 11, 2012)

hmm, yeah, they list the same numbers for the reflex versions.
well, diodes are only 8's. I don't put too much stock in those numbers anyways. It's more marketing-influenced than anything scientific


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## addi61 (Sep 20, 2011)

Nivek, did he say this in regards to the est or reflex versions or does it apply to both? It makes sense to me since the malavita moved up to 30% glass and the high back does feel a good amount stiffer in hand. Also, how would you say the company's compare to the malavits and salomon chiefs stiffness/response wise?



Nivek said:


> Just the opposite. Cleared it with one of the reps over the weekend. Despite what the site says, the Cartel is now softer than the Malavita.
> 
> And the Genesis is not meant to fill the hole of the Prophecy by the way. Its not meant as a stiffer all mountain binding. Its a softer high tech binding for those that have shit tons of money and want the cool shit. Usually that guy isn't a great rider and getting all the cool shit usually means a stiff binding, which is beyond their ability. Hence the Genesis, cool shit and soft so it's not beyond the rich new guy.
> 
> K2 Company's. No crazy tech to break, just a simple, responsive, damp, and functional binding.


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## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

addi61 said:


> Nivek, did he say this in regards to the est or reflex versions or does it apply to both? It makes sense to me since the malavita moved up to 30% glass and the high back does feel a good amount stiffer in hand. Also, how would you say the company's compare to the malavits and salomon chiefs stiffness/response wise?


He didn't specify between ReFlex and EST. But with the Hinge the EST Malavita it will be a smidge softer than the ReFlex. But still stiffer than the Cartel. It's really that highback. The highback is just that much softer.

Company's are about where the Prophecy landed, a little stiffer than the Chief. The Chief sits kinda in between the Malavita and Cartel. It's a great do everything binding.


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## Supra (Jan 11, 2012)

so yes, the malavita highback is stiffer than the cartels, but the cartel's baseplate is stiffer.

The cartel's highback is as strong as the 2012 when pushing straight back


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## addi61 (Sep 20, 2011)

I think the Malavita base is as stiff as the Cartel this year. Its listed as 30% glass blend vs. 11% last year. The shape on this years base is different than last years when it matched the Cartel but its that same shape that the Diode and Genesis have.


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## scotty100 (Apr 3, 2012)

I made it into the Burton flagship store in LA before thanksgiving and according to the guys in the store, the 2013 Cartel highback has enhanced torsional flex but is as stiff and responsive as ever when pushing straight back into it. That combined with the usual level of stiffness in the baseplate is apparently why they still rate the 2013 Cartel stiffer overall than the 2013 Malavita. This is for both Reflex and EST versions.

I ended up getting the 2013 restricted reflex malavitas with the wing highback. Sweet binding and the highback did not feel stiffer than the cartels in any direction to me but this was just in the store and I did not analyze it too closely.


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## Nito (Oct 16, 2007)

Nivek said:


> He didn't specify between ReFlex and EST. But with the Hinge the EST Malavita it will be a smidge softer than the ReFlex. But still stiffer than the Cartel. It's really that highback. The highback is just that much softer.
> 
> Company's are about where the Prophecy landed, a little stiffer than the Chief. The Chief sits kinda in between the Malavita and Cartel. It's a great do everything binding.


Sorry to jack this thread.

Nivek,

I read your comment on the mini review. Why no love for the Salomon Hologram? Do you think the Heritage and Machete will be to stiff for the Hologram? I'm thinking since Bobby has a pair of Dialogues, it would be a great match.

Just asking, not looking to cause any problem - Nito


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## Nivek (Jan 24, 2008)

I just hadnt ridden them yet. They'd be great on a Machete, the Heritage being stiffer would just depend on whether the rider likes the soft heelcup or not. They'll do their job and match well if said rider likes the feel.


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## addi61 (Sep 20, 2011)

Nivek,

What about the rome targa? Seems like a good match for the heritage and really adjustable. Only downside could be weight but I don't know if it would be noticeable while riding. Have you ridden the targas?


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## B(F)Dkid55 (Nov 28, 2012)

*Union Contact Pro*

These bindings are sort of pricy (around 220$) they have amazing flex, very light weight, and very strong, plus Uion ensures a lifetime warranty, definitely check them out


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